1. Trailspotter

    Trailspotter Senior Member

    • Like Like x 2
  2. skephu

    skephu Senior Member

    Dane Wigington has reacted to the study: Ken Caldeira, David Keith, And Carnegie “Science”, The Face Of The Criminal Climate Engineering Cover-up
    It's a long article with a long list of "criticisms". The main point he makes is:

    etc. etc.
     
  3. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Interesting that he shows a video of an aerodynamic contrail. I should have put a more distinctive one of those in the test.

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK9nVR9H34g

    Still, if that's his counter evidence, it's straightforward enough to refute.

    EDIT: Rebuttal here: https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-i...aerosol-spraying-aerodynamic-contrails.t7856/
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2016
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  4. skephu

    skephu Senior Member

    And it's the video he has stolen from Douglas Huang.
     
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  5. NoParty

    NoParty Senior Member

    The most interesting (and maybe satisfying) part about Dane's reaction, to me, is that he resorts to calling the paper
    "...a last ditch desperate attempt" when he must realize that his movement's terminal inability to "wake up"
    the masses, or get anyone with power to take them seriously (and all the protests, with stagnating attendance)
    may well mean his days of "importance" are numbered: This paper is getting so much attention, that it's going to be harder
    than ever to convince marginal potential converts to board the sinking "chemtrail" dinghy.
    in other words, Dane may realize that "last ditch desperate attempt" may really be a better fit for
    him and his lot...as their plan to convince the masses dies hard...slowly...painfully...but inevitably...




    p.s. Gotta love Dane's reference to Colbert...does Dane not understand that the whole premise of the
    Colbert Report was that the title character was an idiot, who pretty much got everything wrong...? :p



    Screen Shot 2016-08-17 at 7.32.47 PM.
     
  6. cloudspotter

    cloudspotter Senior Member

    And conveniently ignoring the whole "modified jets at 20 kilometers" thing
     
  7. skephu

    skephu Senior Member

    Dane seems to confuse Carnegie Institution for Science (Ken Caldeira's employer) with Carnegie Mellon University:

    The page linked by Dane is about government-sponsored software research and development (mainly for cybersecurity) at Carnegie Mellon University. This has nothing to do with Carnegie Institution for Science except that both were founded by Andrew Carnegie around 1900.

    Dane is very sloppy with facts, as always.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    It's a great shame that Mr Huang has deleted his original video. He (unsuccessfully) tried to get YouTube to take down the geoengineeringwatch version, but now he seems to have given up and taken his own original one down, thus removing part of the evidence of what it really shows.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Whitebeard

    Whitebeard Senior Member

    Damn, beat me to it.. :)
     
  10. vooke

    vooke Active Member

    They will tell you they lack funds and that the government is not keen in embarrassing itself by funding them
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member



    That figure for barium is in mg/m3, not ppm, as claimed.

    https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/convert.html

     
  12. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    I learned practically nothing about physics or chemistry in school, and I'm quite positive many other people also did not.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  13. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    I can think of a few leaders in the chemtrail movement who could spend some of the money they have accumulated to do a test of the trails.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    All of his terminology is hysterical: The power structure's propaganda machine, last ditch, desperate, omnicide, global controllers, pathetic piece of propaganda.......... anything but a calm objective rebuttal, and that's just one paragraph!
     
  15. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    That's because SO MANY of their claims are based out outright lies like the "FedEx" video. How often do they repeat such ridiculously false and thoroughly debunked claims? Daily, it seems.
     
  16. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Ironically, with the inception of chemtrails approaching it's 20th anniversary next year (Sept 17th, 2017),
    the believers have always hoped for their cause to reach "critical mass" when they expected a general consensus would grow until virtually everyone would agree with them. Critical mass has finally come, but as it has happened, their consensus has become turned around 180 degrees against them.

    The importance of this paper is how it hoists them on their own petard, they are completely blown up. Years ago when I approached scientists and tried to explain what chemtrail believers were saying, many weren't interested. Now, as NoParty has seen, enough has been said and likewise rejected that his experience is shared by orders of magnitude more people. The believers always said they sought the truth, and now they have it.
     
  17. skephu

    skephu Senior Member

    Dane Wigington talks about the study at length in his latest radio program. From about 31:58 to 44:30.
    Looks like he plans to publish more articles attempting to discredit Ken Caldeira next week.
    At about 40:42, he talks about an email sent to Caldeira claiming that air traffic in the US is down, and Caldeira apparently accepted it.
     
  18. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    down from 30 years ago when there were less contrails? That's kinda hard to believe.
     
  19. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    it says that in the paper? no. if i missed it can you please quote that part?
     
  20. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    No, not at all. What the study did was take a small number of examples of "evidence" that is commonly used as "proof of chemtrails" and ask for expert opinion on whether they actually do constitute evidence. The overwhelming consensus was that no, they do not. The study wasn't about open-ended, hypothetical "what ifs".
     
  21. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    J. Marvin Herndon, serial author of discredited chemtrail papers, has weighed in with an open letter in response to the paper we were originally discussing:

    http://beforeitsnews.com/new-world-...ng-program-is-to-deceive-the-public-6536.html

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2016
  22. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    heres the fun parts. the rest is just typical Herndon [...]. "exhibit D" just links to the home page.

    i bolded the hypocritical parts i especially like. and the lie about Mick contacting Krzyzanowski. (and the lie about Krzyzanowski, because i do not believe she lied to Herndon and said Mick contacted her.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2016
  23. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Also, exhibit D was not posted on Metabunk.

    This letter will just be ignored by the universities.
     
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  24. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    • Informative Informative x 1
  25. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    Is this quote from Krzyzanowski just a complete fabrication?



    What was the resolution of the "null hypothesis" question?
     
  26. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I did not contact her. She contacted me.

    I was using "null hypothesis" in the sense of "there's nothing going on, it's just dirt". She was using it in a strict statistical sense of there being no relationship between the test results and coal fly ash.

    But of course there IS a loose relationship, as coal fly ash is very similar to dirt. Her objection seems to miss the point.
     
  27. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  28. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Another piece of hypocrisy is that Herndon didn't mention his EJRPH article which was also retracted. Why not?
     
  29. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    Kristen Meghan was a member of Metabunk. She explained that her "whistleblowing" was nothing to do with chemtrails, it was to do with exposure to chemicals at air bases. She has since become involved in the chemtrail theory, but her talking points are the usual debunked ones from the internet, not based on any personal experience.

    See the thread here, in which Kristen Meghan participated: https://www.metabunk.org/kristen-meghan-former-us-air-force-whistle-blower.t1066/
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  30. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    I've challenged "Richie from Boston" to a phone debate..on the issue of chemtrails and his comments on the study, and the remainder of his video, and what else he states in this video...


     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2016
  31. cloudspotter

    cloudspotter Senior Member

    I'm not sure how much point there would be in debating someone who thinks nimbostratus and stratus are new cloud types o_O
     
  32. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    I don't know - having an old book on hand that provides a clear debunking of that claim is a lot better than nebulous arguing over things that cannot be proved. It's a hard claim of evidence, so it can be easily refuted.
     
  33. cloudspotter

    cloudspotter Senior Member

    Didn't you know all the old books are faked?
     
  34. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    The bible, evidently is not....it describes real food.
     
  35. Spectrar Ghost

    Spectrar Ghost Senior Member

    I've never seen 4-bread before.

    That's what happened, right? Jesus got some four dimensional bread and just tore it at right angles to reality to appear to make one loaf into two?

    That's what I'd do.
     
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  36. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    • Like Like x 4
  37. NoParty

    NoParty Senior Member

    Nice company: Dawkins, Randi & Co. Congrats.

    But before CTs begin questioning whether you're a "replacement West"
    or something, what's the backstory on the dueling (flipped) pic?

    Dueling Micks....
     
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  38. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I can't remember exactly. Maybe it looked a bit too much like Jim Lee's Avatar.

    (i.e. my avatar here is flipped, good job I have a symmetrical haircut)
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2016
  39. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    If it's the avatar pic that's flipped, I assumed it's just so that you are "looking into" the page. That's a basic design rule, that people's faces should be looking towards the centre of the page where possible. @Jay Reynolds and @deirdre get it right, but @Leifer doesn't ;)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  40. Landru

    Landru Moderator Staff Member

    Neither do I.
     
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