Crisis Actors.

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If his arteries retracted and he's no longer bleeding, what is the guy in the cowboy hat holding in his hand to keep the guy from bleeding out? Either he's bleeding or he's not bleeding. You can't have it both ways.
 
Did you check out my link? A Professional explains it.

I will respond to you when you can discuss what a real medic has to say.
 
ok, if he's stable and not bleeding out, why is the other guy holding an artery?

Would you like to address the first woman, the one with no injuries? Even if she's smearing blood, where did her welps come from, the ones on her hand?
 
ok, if he's stable and not bleeding out, why is the other guy holding an artery?

Would you like to address the first woman, the one with no injuries? Even if she's smearing blood, where did her welps come from, the ones on her hand?
What's a welp?
 


This is a better photo. After the blast, while she is on the ground, her hand and leg show no sign of injury. How did she get the injuries pictured in the photo where she is being rolled away in the wheel chair?
 
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her hand and leg show no sign of injury.
It looks to me that they are extravasations or bruises, they don't appear right away. There is blood everywhere on the ground where she is sitting, it seems like she is bleeding from both legs, how would she be able to get up with clean hands?
 
I ask again what your experience of triage and blast trauma situations is. It is helpful to know so as to ascertain the basis from which you are drawing your conclusions. Anyone with an understanding of a blast area and of the types of casualties will know that there are no constants. Injuries are rarely textbook and neither are responses from those involved. Even with a trained eye it is extremely difficult to gauge what is actually happen and why certain actions are been taken. I will not argue the minute of the trauma we are presented with but will say I have been in a number of bomb blasts (including one at the hospital I was working at and a car bomb that left be in hospital for a long while), and I attended many more. I see nothing unusual in the injuries or the actions of responders in the pictures.

You have also claimed that these injuries are casualty simulations (cas sim) yet you have been unable to provide details about the materials needed or the time. This is incredibly important. This is only anecdotal but to do the raised skin and depth colouration for the injuries to the womans hands and face would take around 10 minutes for someone experienced. Obviously other injuries are going to take a great deal longer, and you are claiming that many injuries were fabricated in situ. With all the cameras where is the evidence.

I am far from an expert and only gave a basic grounding in cas sim. Most NCO medics attached to infantry units had at least basic skills in cas sim to make testing and exercises realistic. However I would say that is is nonsensical to suggest that it can be done on this scale, in situ, without anyone seeing the process.
 
You can't see her whole leg in that photo so how can you use it as evidence there are no wounds in her leg??
 
none of which are first responder training that I can see



Also not first responder training:


The goal of the course is to enable participants to improve their community’s mitigation and emergency operations plan specifically regarding the needs of children. The course will provide them with the information needed to address the unique needs of children prior to, during and following disasters. It will also provide them guidance and direction on how to form coalitions and how to become advocates for the unique needs of children in all aspects of emergency management.

After completing this course, participants will be able to:
• Articulate the importance of providing for the needs of children in disasters in your community’s current emergency management plan.
• Explain what is required to keep children safe in emergencies and why those needs are unique.
.....etc
Content from External Source
You say that is not 'first responder training'... what is it then?

What does the above statement mean, 'in practical terms' to you?

No idea what this means: 'the unique needs of children prior to, during and following disasters'.?
 
Proof? Go to their site. They have job listings right on there.
Not to mention they have videos on YouTube showing how they set up 'hyper-real' scenarios to train first responders for preparedness. I'm posting from my phone so it's harder to link things, but basically google FEMA and go to their site and poke around the career section. Or go to YouTube and look for their videos. Easy to find.


Not sure what that has to do with the Ed Chiarini-type actor CT. The claim is that "actors" are used to actually perform the terror attacks and these major events are staged. Not that agencies re-enact or stage attacks for preparedness. My volunteer fire department stages events to rehearse their preparedness. Heck, I rehearse my sales presentations, it makes perfect sense that when one rehearses one is better at what they do.


For what? Believing in a real thing that exists? Are you guys against outsiders in this forum? I think some people here may be a little bias.

Not for believing that a real thing called crises actors exists. You seem to be slightly confused at what they are used for. It appears you believe they take part in actual attacks, not re-enactments for emergency preparedness.
 
They would not be hired as employees, it would be a contract with the agency.








I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I'm fairly certain there are terror drills or crisis drills conducted just about every day of the week. You don't believe that the police/military/air force/army/your local fire department etc etc etc constantly PRACTICE? What do you think they do? Sit in their stations and barbeque hot dogs and push paperwork around all day until one day our country attacks, and they magically know what the procedure is from reading it, without ever practicing it?
 
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What segment of the population would that be? The segment that asks questions?


Your segment, frankly.
No, evacuation is not a priority over someone bleeding out. Well, since the medic made that call, it should be fine then. If you were the guy bleeding out, you would be fine with that call, since the medic made it. Right?

How long have you been a doctor/EMT?
 
You tell me. The guy with the traumatic amputation seems to be stable and the bleeding has stopped, possibly due to the contraction of the muscles.

May I ask what experience you have of triage and blast trauma? Also I presume that in your training you have come into contact with casualty simulation so can you tell me exactly what would be required, well as the time required, to produce an injury like the poor bloke with the traumatic amputation, especially given the lower leg has been degloved.

100% conjecture. 'Seems to be', 'possibly', the same kind of lingo you debunkers rip at 'truthers' for using. You may as well have not posted at all, honestly.
Why make an assumption about this guy's personal experience and then ask him questions pertaining to that? If you really want to understand the answers to these questions about triage and blast trauma, maybe you should research it yourself and post something informative instead of derailing?
 
100% conjecture. 'Seems to be', 'possibly', the same kind of lingo you debunkers rip at 'truthers' for using. You may as well have not posted at all, honestly.
Why make an assumption about this guy's personal experience and then ask him questions pertaining to that? If you really want to understand the answers to these questions about triage and blast trauma, maybe you should research it yourself and post something informative instead of derailing?

Yes it is conjecture. How can it be anything else when one was not present?

I understand triage and Mass Casualty Incidents extremely well thanks for asking. I do recommend that some people read around incident handling and the priorities in managing a terrorist incident. To be informed that evacuation is not a priority shows a lack if understanding at the least.
 
Then why ask questions if you know so much? Maybe inform us instead?

Crisis actors, crisis actors...let's see...where have I seen them before....ohh yeah.
*warning - seemingly graphic content*


Remember this? Urban shield, run by Strategic Operations, helping the great folks in Boston (first responders, nonetheless) be better prepared for crisis events.
Call me an idiot. I know, there's some issues with semantics. 'Ohh, they're not paid, therefore they're not actually actors,' or 'that isn't FEMA, so you're wrong' etcetera
But these are actors, helping first responders in crisis scenarios. Do these people not exist? Is this some scam?
 
Then why ask questions if you know so much? Maybe inform us instead?

Crisis actors, crisis actors...let's see...where have I seen them before....ohh yeah.
*warning - seemingly graphic content*


Remember this? Urban shield, run by Strategic Operations, helping the great folks in Boston (first responders, nonetheless) be better prepared for crisis events.
Call me an idiot. I know, there's some issues with semantics. 'Ohh, they're not paid, therefore they're not actually actors,' or 'that isn't FEMA, so you're wrong' etcetera
But these are actors, helping first responders in crisis scenarios. Do these people not exist? Is this some scam?


Did you not state in another thread that we need to ask questions? That is what I am doing. Claims are been made that the images are in fact casualty simulations, and that triage procedures are not been followed. It is important to know as to the knowledge base such a testimony is given from. I have asked in a number of posts as to how such conclusions are drawn but no reply. Could it be they are just been made up?
 
Again I have nothing to do with any of that. I simply stated that crisis actors exist. I don't have to prove anything else (like claims they were used in Boston) because I didn't make those claims.
I hate having to spell things out for people; [...]


[Edit: Politeness Please]
 
"all that training"?? A course for communities to help kids is "all that training"??

Do you expect the community volunteers or disaster workers to be perfect or something? It is training - if it improves what would have happened before such training then it is a success - expecting perfection is just setting up a strawman!
I thought we were discussing FEMA training for FEMA personnel here... not 'A course for communities'.

If it were a 'course for communities', it would have to encompass the entire population and every community as no one knows where disaster may strike. Not much point in 'educating' the Sandy Hook community if the 'disaster happens 50 miles away, is it?

And if it is of no 'value', why bother in the first place. You cannot have it both ways.

What about the bus driver (male/female/who knows), and the six kids who escaped and wound up outside Gene Rosen's house, do you think s/he may have attended a FEMA training? Surely Gene Rosen had attended as a FEMA operative and ex psychiatrist? What do you think?
 
Then why ask questions if you know so much? Maybe inform us instead?

Crisis actors, crisis actors...let's see...where have I seen them before....ohh yeah.
*warning - seemingly graphic content*


Remember this? Urban shield, run by Strategic Operations, helping the great folks in Boston (first responders, nonetheless) be better prepared for crisis events.
Call me an idiot. I know, there's some issues with semantics. 'Ohh, they're not paid, therefore they're not actually actors,' or 'that isn't FEMA, so you're wrong' etcetera
But these are actors, helping first responders in crisis scenarios. Do these people not exist? Is this some scam?

It's impossible that this was a drill... do you know how much that would cost? Do you know how long it takes to apply the effects? Where do they get all these actors from? Anyway it has been debunked that there was a drill on the day of the Boston Bombings. Only one guy said there were any such announcements. ;)
 
Then why ask questions if you know so much? Maybe inform us instead?

Crisis actors, crisis actors...let's see...where have I seen them before....ohh yeah.
*warning - seemingly graphic content*


Remember this? Urban shield, run by Strategic Operations, helping the great folks in Boston (first responders, nonetheless) be better prepared for crisis events.
Call me an idiot. I know, there's some issues with semantics. 'Ohh, they're not paid, therefore they're not actually actors,' or 'that isn't FEMA, so you're wrong' etcetera
But these are actors, helping first responders in crisis scenarios. Do these people not exist? Is this some scam?


[...]

[Edit: Politeness please]
 
Again I have nothing to do with any of that. I simply stated that crisis actors exist. I don't have to prove anything else (like claims they were used in Boston) because I didn't make those claims.
I hate having to spell things out for people; [...]



Funny, I feel the same way. Who said crisis actors "don't exist"?
 
Can you provide evidence that FEMA hires crisis actors? Remember, FEMA is not a first responder agency and therefore would not train at that level.

http://nevadagovernor2014.com/fema-...s-nevada-governor-2014-david-lory-vanderbeek/

https://hseep.dhs.gov/hseep_Vols/default1.aspx?url=rightTreeDisplay.aspx?
From the Word Doc



(a) Deployment Timetable
(b) Player Information Handout
(2)Actors
(a)Actor Waiver Form
(b)Actor Information Sheet
(c)Moulage Kit
(d)Actor Tags/Labels
(i) Symptomology Tags (Chemical)
1. Lewisite
2. Sarin
3. VX
(ii) Contaminated Labels
(iii)Deceased Labels
(iv)Do Not Decon Labels
(e) Hospital/Victim List
(3) Media/Public Information
(4) Logistics
(a) Identification Badges/Labels
(i) ID Badges
(ii) Labels
(iii)Hats and Badges Card (for Players)
(b) Sign-in Sheets (Actors, Controllers, Players, etc.)
(c) Signs
(d) Invitation
Content from External Source
As for Moulage Kits see:

http://www.med-worldwide.com/moulage-kits-casualty-simulation-c5471


MOULAGE KIT BEN NYE PROFESSIONAL EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES MOULAGE KIT professional ems included are realistic modeling waxes, wound color wheels, reusable latex wounds, bloods and tools, and a full color trauma simulation guide with detailed step-by-step instructions. all components are available for replacement. the professional moulage kit contains: cyanotic blue foundation, 3 effects wheels: bruises, trauma simulation,burns & blisters, 3 foundation bases: fair, olive, dark brown, gel wound simulation pack, bright yellow base, neutral set face powder, white cream base, thick blood, fresh scab, modeling waxes: fair, brown, simulated bone, reusable latex wounds: slit throat, bullet holes,exit wound, open fracture, jagged cut, deep laceration, avulsed eye, torn cheek, blood powder and stage blood w/applicators, liquid latex, castor sealer, spirit gum adhesive & remover, synthetic charcoal powder, petroleum & lubricating jellies, tools & applicators, trauma simulation guide, heavy duty carrying case
Content from External Source
BTW... I am not saying they did fake it... only that it is possible and should be considered.
 
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I'm fairly certain there are terror drills or crisis drills conducted just about every day of the week. You don't believe that the police/military/air force/army/your local fire department etc etc etc constantly PRACTICE? What do you think they do?

True.

Although it never seems to make it into an official report historical evidence indicates that sometimes drills can be redirected or set to go live by small factions of conspirators within the government. In fact, the use of drills is arguably standard operating procedure for smaller factions within the military/police/air force/army/ and those tasked with responding to emergencies and so forth, e.g. Operation Valkyrie.

Operation Valkyrie (German: Operation Walküre) was a German World War II emergency continuity of government operations plan issued to the Territorial Reserve Army of Germany to execute and implement in case of a general breakdown in civil order of the nation. Failure of the government to maintain control of civil affairs could be caused by the Allied bombing of German cities, or a rising of millions of foreign forced laborers working in German factories.
German Army (Heer) officers General Friedrich Olbricht, Major General Henning von Tresckow, and Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg modified the plan with the intention of using it to take control of German cities, disarm the SS, and arrest the Nazi leadership once Hitler had been assassinated in the July 20 Plot. --Wikipedia

There were some similar drills scheduled to run when there was an attempt to assassinate president Reagan:
Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger's memoir of that afternoon reminds us of two highly relevant facts. The first is that a "NORAD [North American Air Defense Command] exercise with a simulated incoming missile attack had been planned for the next day." Weinberger agreed with General David Jones, the chiarman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, that this exercise should be cancelled.
Weinberger also recalls that the group in the Situation Room was informed by James Baker that "there had been a FEMA [Federal Emergency Management Administration] exercise scheduled for the next day on presidential succession, with the general title 'Nine Lives.' By an immediate consensus, it was agreed that exercise should also be cancelled." Link

But at least those drills were cancelled. Not that anyone would know any different if the drill went live or not.
 
Crisis actors?

Not even very good actors, seems like:


I see, so the guy with the head scarf was probably the one supposed to look "Islamic," I'd imagine. So he probably didn't play the part of a zombie.

Youtube comment:
Not that I disagree over all, the DHS are up to some rights infringing shenanigans. We are indeed headed for a Police state. This however looks phoney, where as drills are often done without zombies as targets, away from public view with live rounds.

I'm not sure where one would find videos or evidence of that. But the whole concept of incorporating crisis actors in drills and training exercises actually seems fairly prevalent. (There's probably a problem with military industrial complex training people to be psychopathic and brutal but then expecting them not to rape each other. But I guess that's off topic.)
 
I for one am sick and tired of folks that make up and that 'buy into' harmful, damaging tales like 'crisis actors'.

Not all explosive amputations 'bleed out'. If they did, we would have a lot less vets coming home without limbs.

http://quinazagga.wordpress.com/2013/04/27/more-hoaxes-and-fake-news-and-hoax-creation/
I have to say, I think that is a very good link Cairenn. I see the original as being written by a very skeptical but cogent person who is capable of looking deeply at an event and analysing it it in a very perceptive way. There are certainly some very strange anomalies pointed out.

The 'debunker' makes much of an allegation that the original pictures are edited but does nothing to show this. He then compounds the situation by sticking large black out sections over the pictures he uses to demonstrate his debunking prowess.

It does not work and further he does not address the anomalies/questions posed by the original poster.
 
Crisis actors?

Not even very good actors, seems like:


I see, so the guy with the head scarf was probably the one supposed to look "Islamic," I'd imagine. So he probably didn't play the part of a zombie.

Youtube comment:


I'm not sure where one would find videos or evidence of that. But I'm sure the NSA is probably keeping an eye on it.


That was not a DHS exercise. It was at HALO Corp.'s 2012 Counter-Terrorism Summit, which some DHS employees attended. It was just part of the conference, and partly for publicity purposes. It because an issue because the DHS employees attended at government expense.

http://www.navytimes.com/article/20120916/NEWS/209160313/Security-firm-hold-zombie-crisis-scenario
"The Zombie Apocalypse is very whimsical," Barker [president of HALO] said, noting the setting is intended to add some levity to the more dire scenarios summit goers will encounter — incidents depicting active shooters inside a hospital or downed pilots trapped behind enemy lines, for instance. The pandemic medical nightmare is bound to be an attention-getter among people attending the summit.
"They are going to see a lot of stuff go down," Barker added. "It is a Hollywood production."
...
Beyond the zombies, the HALO event will weave in lessons learned from real disasters and terror events, including attacks in Iraq and Afghanistan and the deadly 2008 bombing in Mumbai, India. Cyber terrorism will have a leading role in sessions and courses throughout the summit, as well.

"The new battlefield is cyberspace, for sure," Barker said.

That means that during the summit, participants' cellphones and email accounts could be hacked, said Tim McAtee, a former Marine now working as HALO's tactical operations director. Some, he said, might be rattled when they realize how easy it is for a hostile force to compromise their personal information and what the broader national-security implications of a cyber attack can be.
Content from External Source
 
In the mid-1960's my dad was in the National Guard. As an officer, he was allowed to take his son to two week summer drill at Fort Hood. TX. Most of the time he was off flying around and I was left on my own to hang around the airfield. They were doing riot control training and some of the men were allowed to play rioters. It looked like fun and so I joined in throwing dirt clods and taunting the soldiers. Yes, I was a crisis actor at the age of ten, over forty years ago.

The biggest problem with the crisis actor CT idea is how would you cajole these folks into pretending FOR REAL that an incident happened, and how would you control these folks after?
The ones with limbs blown off, how do you manage that, they have friends and families, do they continue the act FOREVER, and walk around with fake prosthetics the rest of their lives?

Just doesn't make much sense. Even one who got tired of the charade could blow the whole thing.

To me, these people promoting this CT haven't really thought it through.
 
Actors have no past and no future. They are made up fictional charters. They appear for an event and then disappear into the crowd. They were there during the event. You and I were not there, we only got to hear the news story and we believed it. The media are not allowed on the scene, so the only photos we get to see are the ones released by the people staging the event. The actors are not going to come out and say, "I was just acting."

It's very convenient to have a staged event going on at the exact same time as a real event. You have to pay attention and determine what is being shown to you. Is it the real event or is it the staged event? They are both very similar. There is so much confusion going on by mixing both events, that no one knows what's happening. In the meantime, no one can be held accountable for the real event.
 
The media are not allowed on the scene, so the only photos we get to see are the ones released by the people staging the event..


And the thousands of photos that the general public posts.

Which event are you referring to, for example?
 
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