Debunked: Photos of Spraying out the Back of a Cargo Plane [Malaysian Cloud Seeding from C-130]

Mick West

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Staff member
There are a variety of photos circulating on the internet that show some pipes lowered out of the back of a cargo plane, spraying a white substance, for example:



These photos are of the Malaysian Air Force conducting cloud seeding. They date back as far as 2005, but the same photos get re-used whenever the Malaysian press writes about cloud seeding.

What is being debunked here is the idea that these photos show something suspicious, unusual, harmful, or secret (like "chemtrails", or secret geoengineering projects). Cloud seeding has been done perfectly openly since the 1950s in many countries around the world. The Malaysian cloud seeding (done since 1979) is just another example of this. And it's a particularly innocuous example, as they are simply spraying salt water onto existing clouds (all cloud seeding is done on existing clouds) in order to make them rain in a particular place to help fight forest fires.

Here's the 2005 article:
http://www.thestar.com.my/story.aspx/?file=/2005/8/23/nation/11845177&sec=nation

Cloud seeding over Sumatra until all fires are extinguished

Tuesday August 23, 2005

Cloud seeding to induce rain will be the main “weapon” for a multi-national force put into action to wipe out the remnants of fires in Sumatra.

The first sortie over parts of Sumatra by the Malaysian and Singaporean air forces began yesterday with each team concentrating on several areas.

Four Hercules C-130 planes, one each from Malaysia and Singapore, and two from Indonesia, will be carrying out cloud seeding over affected areas until the fires are extinguished.
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And a more recent story explains how they think it works (although they seem to be a little confused, as this is a "warm cloud" method, and no ice is involved).
http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nati...d-change-in-wind-patterns-should-improve-dry/


This story shows the tank of salt water being loaded:
http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nati...ainfall-provides-break-from-heat-and-haze-in/


Multiple tanks are used:
http://manage.mmail.com.my/story/cloud-seeding-success-74499


This 2005 story shows the mixing of the Sodium Chloride (regular table salt) with water:
http://www.thestar.com.my/Story/?file=/2005/3/18/nation/10450689&sec=nation


And here's the tank in place:
http://www.thestar.com.my/Story/?file=/2005/8/13/nation/11766126&sec=nation


Here's another article with explanation:
http://www.nst.com.my/nation/general/making-rain-with-salt-1.310280

In wet seeding, about 150kg of salt is mixed with 1,000 litres of water. The containers of salt solution are carried aboard an RMAF C130 aircraft. Four containers could be carried at one time.

When the plane reaches an altitude of 1,200m to 2,100m [6,900 feet], the solution is sprayed onto the clouds.
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The cloud seeding is carried out by the Malaysian Meteorological Department since 1973
http://www.met.gov.my/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=905&Itemid=1000

Weather Modification Division of the Malaysian Meteorological Department was established in 1973. This division was responsible to carried out cloud seeding operation when it needed. In year 1977, cloud seeding operation has been carried out over MADA (Muda Agriculture Development Authority) catchments area. This operation is to enhance the rainfall over Pedu and Muda dams to ensure that there would be sufficient water supply for double cropping in MADA area.

In 1979, MMD had carried out cloud seeding operation over the Temengor catchments after received a request from National Electricity Limited Company (formerly National Electricity Board). The objective of the operation was to induce and enhance rain to maintain the reservoir water storage of Temengor Dam above the operating level for hydroelectric power generation.

Similar cloud seeding operations were also carried out over the catchments of other dams, such as Durian Tunggal in Malacca; Langat, Klang Gate, Semenyih and Sungai Tinggi dams in Klang Valley to augment water resources to meet the needs of industrial and domestic water consumption during long dry spells. In 1997, when the country experienced severe haze during the El Nino episode, the Malaysian Meteorological Service was requested to carry out cloud seeding operations as an attempt to create rain to help to reduce the effect of haze and forest fire on the socio-economic activities of the country.
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And again, this is nothing new. Cloud seeding dates back to the 1950s. Here's a 1951 (publically published) paper that discusses cloud seeding with table salt (sodium chloride):
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.2164-0947.1951.tb01053.x/abstract

SECTION OF OCEANOGRAPHY AND METEOROLOGY: CLOUD SEEDING BY MEANS OF DRY ICE, SILVER IODIDE, AND SODIUM CHLORIDE*
  1. IRVING LANGMUIR
This paper was presented as one of two papers in the Symposium on Cloud Seeding, held by the Section on October 23, 1951.
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The infographics above are somewhat vague and misleading about what is going. There are actually two main forms of cloud seeding techniques, "warm" and "cold" seeding. The cold seeding is more common in the US, and involves spraying Silver Iodide, which is an ice nuclei, and makes the supercooled water in the clouds form ice - this will then precipitate out as snow, hail, or rain (if it melts on the way down)

"Warm" seeding is done at temperatures above freezing, and uses a "hygroscopic" (water attracting/absorbing) material to encourage the formation of larger droplets of water that will then then precipitate out (rain). This is explained by US cloud seeding company Weather Modification Inc:
http://www.weathermodification.com/resources.php
Warm cloud seeding stimulates precipitation production in clouds that are not cold enough to produce ice. Hygroscopicmaterials are introduced to encourage the formation of larger cloud droplets, which leads to the development of rain through the collision and coalescence process. Cold cloud seeding works by stimulating ice formation in clouds cold enough to develop it. This accelerates the growth of precipitation-sized particles
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airhead questions that might be OT: how cold does it need to be for salt water to freeze? meaning can cloud seeding make what looks like a non persisting contrail?
and how high do you need to be before you cant breathe with a mask?
 
airhead questions that might be OT: how cold does it need to be for salt water to freeze? meaning can cloud seeding make what looks like a non persisting contrail?

-1.9°C/28.4°F is the freezing temp of normal salt water (i.e. sea water). The lowest possible freezing temp is for saturated salt water (which is essentially what they use here), where it's around -21°/-5.1F. Much colder than at 7,000 feet over Malaysia in the summer. You could in theory make a contrail with just water, but then your engines would likely also be leaving contrails anyway.

and how high do you need to be before you cant breathe with a mask?
You can "breath" all the way up to around 25,000 feet. But oxygen masks are required in an unpressurized cabin above 12,000 feet (or 10,000 feet if you are going to be up there more than 30 minutes).

The cloud seeding seen here is under 7000 feet. Most US cloud seeding is done with small planes at similar altitudes.
 
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Great info Mick. Thought I would share a fitting picture for our amusement. :p
 

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-1.9°C/28.4°F is the freezing temp of normal salt water (i.e. sea water). The lowest possible freezing temp is for saturated salt water (which is essentially what they use here), where it's around -21°/-5.1F. Much colder than at 7,000 feet over Malaysia in the summer. You could in theory make a contrail with just water, but then your engines would likely also be leaving contrails anyway.


You can "breath" all the way up to around 25,000 feet. But oxygen masks are required in an unpressurized cabin above 12,000 feet (or 10,000 feet if you are going to be up there more than 30 minutes).

The cloud seeding seen here is under 7000 feet. Most US cloud seeding is done with small planes at similar altitudes.
Very well put
 
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