1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Half of all chemtrail believers did not notice persistent trails until after 2010. So if there was a chemtrail spraying program that started in 1995, then why did they not notice it?

    Data: https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/persistent-trails-history-survey-2016-02-10-xlsx.17483/

    Four years ago, in January 2012, I started a survey to try to discover when people first noticed persistent trails being left by aircraft in the sky. These trails are generally agreed by scientists and the general public to be aircraft contrails - condensation of water vapor which triggers cloud formations which can persist and spread if conditions are right. However there are a significant number of people who believe the theory that these trails are actually "chemtrails", and that they are being deliberately (and secretly) sprayed by the government in order to control the weather and/or the climate.

    The chemtrail theory arose in the late 1990s on AM talk radio (particularly the Art Bell show), and spread after that via the internet. There are many claims of evidence used to support the theory - claims that contrails should not persist, or that traces of sprayed chemicals have been detected. All these claims have been addressed elsewhere (on Metabunk.org, or ContrailScience.com). However, one claim has been quite difficult to address - the claim that in the past contrails did not persist.

    Now there is plenty of evidence that contrails persisted in the past. 70 years of books on the weather describe how contrails can persist and spread, and there are extensive archives of photos and videos of contrails predating the 1990's birth of the "chemtrail" theory. But ultimately the individual believer finds this evidence uncompelling, as they rely on their own personal memory. They generally claim that since they (and other chemtrail believers) personally don't remember contrails persisting, then they could not have persisted, and hence the chemtrail theory must be correct.

    So I set out to test this. If the chemtrail theory were true, then I would expect that people would start to notice persistent trails around a certain date, i.e. there would be a peak when the chemtrails program started in the 1990s. If, on the other hand, the chemtrail theory were false, then there would be no such peak.

    The results are summarized in the chart at the top of the post. There were approximately equal numbers of people who believed the chemtrail theory vs. those who thought they were just contrails. Among those who believed in chemtrails (purple), there are very few before the 1990s, then the frequency rises rapidly in the 2000s and 2010s (note we are only half way through the 2010s, so the actually numbers would likely be double.

    With those who thought the trails were just contrails (green), there is some random variation, but essentially there is little difference between decades. There is simply no particular year that people started to notice persistent contrails after the start of the jet age.

    A more detailed look, broken down by year:
    (note the bottom axis is not linear, and just contains years for which there is data)

    Here I've added a five year moving average line for believers (purple) and "just contrails" (green). The difference between the two lines is stark. There is no clear time when the believers noticed the persistent trails. In fact there is simply a gradual increase starting in the 1990s, with a huge peak around 2010. Non-believers on the other hand have been noticing them at a near constant rate since the 1960s.

    This strongly suggests that the chemtrail believers simply started to pay attention to the sky a lot more after they heard of the chemtrail theory. They almost entirely consist of people who did not notice persistent trails until AFTER the chemtrail theory was created. Half of them did not notice persistent trails until after 2010.

    Consider that point carefully. Half of all chemtrail believers did not notice persistent trails until after 2010. So if there was a chemtrail spraying program that started in 1995, then why did they not notice it? If they were failing to notice something that other chemtrail believers had been observing for 15 years, then why is their recent noticing of these trails evidence of a spraying program?

    And if this increase in noticing is a result of a ramping up of the spraying program, then why is there no corresponding increase in the equally sized "just contrails" group from 1990 to 2016?

    The simplest explanation is that there has been no sudden change in the nature of persistent trails. There has been an increase in the popularity of the "Chemtrails" theory, and the increase in believers noticing trails simply reflects the growth in the popularity of the theory.

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    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
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  2. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Another part of the survey is the comments section for each post, these make very interesting reading. Here's the comments for the "No, they are just contrails" people.
    The idea of an organized conspiracy spraying toxins onto the population is supported by a skillful batch of propagandists.

    I have yet to see anything supporting it, other than claims—mostly wild.
    I have lived in a rural area in central Ontario for over forty years and have seen contrails at least more than occasionally. There is too much fuss about them.
    Those first ones were very fast and may have tests of the Avro Arrow. Look it up.

    I live in Tenerife. Morning flights cross it from Italy to S. America every morning, and trails are made at least one time in three.
    I have read some of the chemtrail information web sites and I can't believe a word they say.

    I class them right in with those Ancient Alien hunters that find evidence of aliens everywhere in the world they look.

    I was born here in 1948, have lived much of my life in central Pennsylvania, & have seen contrails in the sky since my childhood. Military jets regularly practiced over our mountains because of the sparse population. In the 1990s, the jets were rarely seen & their absence was noticeable. After the terrorist attacks of 9/11/2001, fighter jets once again appeared in our skies. Once, a year or so ago, my mother & I observed 8 or more jets flying northwestward from the southeast, with another jet approaching from the east-southeast & joining them, all seemingly headed for the same destination, all with contrails. They did NOT form a grid pattern; they were flying toward a destination. We watched them until they disappeared over the horizon. We assumed there had been some threat or security emergency that had required their deployment. Despite the claims of a few of my friends who insist that they have regularly witnessed "chemtrails" over this area, I have seen nothing more than ordinary contrails -- and I'm a keen observer.
    I lived around 50m from an RNZAF base, small jet fighters were a common sight. We knew them as vapour trails.

    Recently, persistent contrails are often visible (usually in winter) when the flight from Argentina to New Zealand flies over where I live in Southern New Zealand. This flight comes over the great-circle southern-polar route.
    Because I knew about airplanes growing up during WWII with my father contracting airplane parts for his plant, then marrying a Boeing aeronautical engineer 63 years ago, I've known about contrails probably most of my life! Never heard about this "chem-trail" nonsense until just recently!

    I started watching clouds as a child, after a tornado touched down and started it's deadly path, about a half mile from me. I saw it, so I wanted to learn as much about weather as I could.

    My home is about 10 miles south of Dallas Love Field. I have seen contrails of all types for most of my life. As a child I loved to see those that were 'wisped ' out into cirrus type clouds
    I'm not sure exactly when I first saw contrails, it would have been about the same time that the Constellation started flying trans-Atlantic routes. We lived about 60 miles West of Heathrow.
    My father was in the Royal Observer Corps during the Cold War, & was trained to recognise signs of incoming fronts,including the presence of persistent contrails.
    I'm a SAR pilot within a very small part of the air force. Contrails are just another part of flight levels flying. Essentially, it means that the engines are working well considering all the additives and junk put into the fuel. Now the bio-fuels are a new unknown factor with polution levels. Oh well, I'm just a stick monkey, not a chemist.
    As a child, in the '60's, I was crazy about space and aviation. I would sit on top of my dad's garage for hours with my telescope watching the planes pass over at altitude, with contrails. Distinctly persistent.
    I've seen persistent contrails my entire life (53 years). The frequency has gradually increased over the years. I attribute that to almost exponential growth in flights/aircraft capable of producing contrails as the years go by...maybe climate change is some factor.

    I don't get the chemtrail hysteria at all. Guessing, but maybe internet Xs general government mistrust Xs people who never really looked skyward until this theory was introduced to them. Then voila (for them) actual visual proof of a dark conspiracy.

    Shaking my head, but maybe after a decade or so most current believers will realize how far-fetched this theory is when nothing happens...Or one of the thousands and thousands of employees needed to implement this global assault, that have willingly participated in poisoning their friends, their families and themselves finally decides "Hey! I don't like this! I'm gathering up evidence and spilling all the beans on this mother of all crimes against humanity...I'm going "Snowden" or "Assange" and playing hero" ...Out of all the many, many thousands of souls needed to execute this massive global plan, surely someone and someone soon is going to do the right thing...Right?

    That will never happen, I guarantee it! Because it's only a strange fantasy.
    Chemtrails are absurd! If anyone wanted to target a population with chemicals, they would not release them into the atmosphere at 30,000+ feet.
    Chemtrails don't exist. Stop trying to prove it real.
    -government paid shill #1556
    I remember seeing long contrails since I went to school in Russia in 1963. It was in the beginning of manned space flight era, and I and my classmates liked to watch the sky. At the time we believed that contrails came from rockets and jet engines.

    I live in England now and see contrails most days when the sky isn't overcast. In 2011 I visited several other countries: Canada (Toronto), Italy (Rome), Turkey (Marmaris), California (San Diego) for several days each and saw persistent trails in all of them.

    I said never because I now live in Abu Dhabi and there are next to NO contrails here.

    I was in Jr Hi at the time. Didn't know why some planes created lasting
    contrails and others didn't -just that it seemed to be related to how high
    the plane was.

    Good site with wide range of discussion/opinion and sources.
    I came as a skeptic looking for plausible evidence. I leave realizing
    facts and logic/reason cannot change the "true believers".

    Didn't run across any in-depth discussion of the modifications and tank capacity that "chemtrail" spraying would require, (specs & math),
    Perhaps I'll post something in the future,

    There are some ruote canges over the years. Find out when it has been some airspace changes. After a route changes people will see more trails on the sky.

    Theer was a big change in northen Europe 1998. I worked with noise abaitment and procedures from 1999 at Gotheburg lamnvetter Airport. We had a big change arrivail and deperture routes 1998 och and suddenly people reconized so many palnes on teh sky.

    With some meteorologic knowledge it is easy to expalin many phenomens on the sky.

    The first question I always ask whn I see a film or satellite pics is, who took the picture and for what reason. Always follow it back to the source.

    As an former airline pilot I can imagnene how much fun those pilots had when making those jokes on film. But there are many people who belives in it and get very sick. Many of those people who are protcting the environment are more followers than investigators.

    Watch Pen & Teller when they make people to sign a petitetion against water


    You have done a good job and I have just entered this site today and have a lot to read.

    While beeing five years old in 1965, my memory might be a bit muddled, but I have recollections of seeing contrails and wondering why some dissapeared almost at once, while others seemed so remain in the sky forever.

    I suppose I nagged quite a to lot my father, to give me some good explanations as well :)
    I don't notice that they look any different now as they did was back when but some people are so positively sure about this whole chemtrail conspiracy and can get down right nasty about it. They also post things about UFO's........
    I first read about contrails as a kid--looked up, and there they were.
    A persistent trail is simply a contrail that is not contrary to the wind.
    My Father was an Air Traffic Controller and explained contrails to me when I was aprox 9 years old when I pointed to them in the sky. Since then I became a Flight Service Specialist, obtained a private pilot license, bought an airplane, flew over 550 hours all over Canada and the U.S. Am now retired.
    I no longer live in Melbourne I now live in Perth, Western Australia. Being as isolated as Perth is there are no flight paths visible from here so contrails are very rare indeed.
    Question 6 really needs a fourth option, something to the effect of:

    Not new at all; this was pretty normal
    I was six and my Dad (who was a private pilot and sold airplanes) pointed them out to me. I've always noticed them on clear days.
    I can remember reading a magazine article (National Wildlife perhaps) expressing worries about increasing air traffic and persistent contrails potentially having an effect on weather and climate. I was a budding environmentalist and spoke about this in front of my (4th grade?) class in the late 1960s. It is quite clear to me that persistent contrails forming cirrus clouds were well known at that time.

    I am laughing at conspiracy loons who think it's some sort of plot. Laughing hard.
    Left the UK long ago, now in Melbourne, Australia. Contrails seem rare here, most recently saw spectacular persistent contrails while sailing on the Gippsland Lakes, 250km east of Melbourne in Autumn with cool sunny weather. Location appears to be on flightpaths from Melbourne to NZ and from Sydney/Canberra/Brisbane to Hobart.
    I am an Airline Pilot (B777) and I know that the :chemtrails" issue is a sad hoax.

    I have been a licensed pilot since 1976. I have spent a lot of time staring at the sky. Six year U.S.A.F. vet that worked on the flightline almost everyday. Worked on large transport aircraft, C-5's, C-141's and C-130's. Spent two years working for a large international airline. Worked around B-747's, B-737 and Airbus aircraft.
    I was just a child, but I remember this because I was a budding environmentalist and I shared a magazine article at school expressing concern that as contrails increased with growing air traffic they might have an effect on weather.
    I remember this trail because I was in Newport infant school about 5 and the Nasa space missions were discussed regularly. A few of us kids had asked a teacher in the playground what the trail was and was told it was snow from santa's sleigh going to a toy factory at the SouthPole. I still believed in Santa but was also intrigued by Space missions and didn't accept the teacher's explanation as there looked to be a more rocket looking object in front of the trail. When teachers started drawing wrong diagrams of spacecraft on blackboards compared to what I saw on TV I decided they weren't trustworthy in regards to explaining flying things. I still remember where I was standing near the front gate of the school when we saw the contrail.
    I was 8 years old in 1969, when Apollo 8 produced an image of "earthrise" and aviation history ruled my world. Articles from WWII magazines , and conversations with my Dad, provided my first understanding of contrails. Academic degrees followed later (Ph.D., wildlife ecology).

    I confess true bewilderment, especially today given the internet, when I still encounter "news stories" about things such as "chemtrails" without any real understanding of data-collection, hypothesis-formation, analysis, or the "weight-of-evidence".
    Having had a father that served in the RAF and having served there myself, I have basically always known these are contrails and any increase in number is purely due to the predicted and predictable increase in air traffic numbers.

    As for them persisting that is down to how humid conditions already are.

    I salute you Unicus for your enormous patience in dealing with these chemtrailers ... you are a credit to science and reason.

    Thank you.
    Conspiracy theory's are like creationists.

    As a kid My friend and i would lay in the grass and watch the sky. and try to guess where the plane was going. we would fantasise as to what we would do if we went there on the plane.
    I noticed contrails as a child and asked my grandfather (ex-RAF) why some lingered, but others didn't. He explained it roughly to me.
    Not exactly shure of the year, I do remember starting to take more notice after my parents told stories of the sky being completely filled with contrails during WWII.
    My Dad was a pilot. I was about 5 (in 1971) when I first noticed and asked about contrails. He explained the science behind them to me. I have seen them steadily (though increasing a bit in frequency due to increased air traffic) all my life.

    I recall seeing polaroids in the family album with contrails in them. Though I was a kid, I always watched the skies and airplanes (sometimes it meant I would get hit by a ball someone was trowing at me). I do recall the exhaust from aircraft in those days was blacker before emissions regulation took place.

    I used to watch persistent contrails from my parent's back yard when I was a child - I was fascinated by them. I was intensely interested in atmospheric conditions, weather and space phenomena, because the space program was in high gear. Skylab was in the news, preparing to be launched.I lived in a small town in Arizona between Las Vegas and Phoenix, and 300 miles away from Los Angeles. We used to hear sonic booms coming from military jets flying from Nellis AFB in Las Vegas.

    I live in the Phoenix metro area - an area with a very busy sky. We see hundreds of planes flying over us every day. Sometimes they leave contrails, sometimes they don't. I understand that it has to do with the altitude of the plane and the atmospheric conditions. Sometimes it's nice to have a little haze to filter out the sun!

    My husband is a firm believer in "chemtrails" and insists they have only been occurring for about 20 years. I have explained my childhood fascination with contrails to him, but he isn't persuaded by facts. ;) He also can't explain to me why "the elite" would be spraying poisons over huge areas of dense population, which would put all humans, livestock, and agriculture at risk - including "the elite" themselves.
    I'm sure they were there before '72 but lying on beach I asked mum why trail still long after plane, no wind up there she said.Took no notice until conspiracy theories spring up,depending on weather conditions sometimes many,sometimes dissipate fast,same routes daily over us in Netherlands but varied staying times. More now than 10 years ago as many,many more flights! People say more now,never saw them as a child,how many stared up once plane had passed when you're a kid Fgs and how many more flights every year. Conspiracy,spraying would involve airport mechanics,oh way too many people to keep it quiet,ridiculous.
    My grandfather pointed them out to me. He had been a fire watcher in the Battle of Britain. He was telling me about the vapour trails that sometimes hung in the air after the fighting, and if I ever saw a vapour trail in the sky I should remember the Battle and brave RAF pilots that had saved us from Hitler. After that it has been impossible not to notice them.
    shortly after 1970 (my Age: 52)
    I've been living in Helsinki for the last 3 years, we hardly ever see contrails that persist here, perhaps because the planes we see are either landing or taking off, or because it's so freakin' cold.
    Planespotters know the aircrafts leaving the trails. Chemtrail-believers conceal the planes and show only the trails.

    To the last question (How often did you see …): It’s depending on the weather and not periodical. Trails can be seen several times a week, but also not once a week.

    I know long strips since my childhood, sometime in the sixties/seventies. When exactly I do not know - hence I wrote 1975.
    When I was young, I spent a great deal of time laying on the ground in our backyard and staring up at the sky. I was fascinated by the different types of clouds and such. I'm not sure when I first noticed contrails so I gave an approximation of when I believe I first noticed them. It could have been a couple years later or earlier, to be honest. That was a long time ago, after all. I wondered, as one would, what they were and I do recall that I asked my father who told me that they were contrails and explained where they came from.
    I am a plane-nerd so maybe I pay attention to flights more than most. I know contrails were plenty visible since I can remember within my 50 years.
    I have a neat photo of a C-130 (a turbo prop plane) with water vapor forming at the prop tips during a short, fast, powerful take-off on a very humid day. I use this photo to show people how simply these can form.
    I was born 1971 so I think with the age of 4 I could understand that there were sometimes stripes in the sky that weren't clouds and that they were caused by airplanes. Of course some were gone in minutes, some lasted very long.
    So I know of contrails as long as I can remember.
    both my father and myself were in the air force, so i've been around aircraft most of my life. {date approximate: early or mid 1970s]
    I remember watching Jet Airliners fly over my house at the age of about 5. It sparked a life-long interest in aviation and science.
    Only noticed contrails when I moved to the UK
    I was around 6 years old as i saw some very long persistent contrails over the whole sky while i layed in the garden and looked up into the sky. There werent much contrails, but there where very, very long and seemed to stay as there are. I found it really fascinating! As a boy i thougth "This plane does the same in the sky as I do on the streets - painting with chock.". I lived in the near of Frankfurt-Airport wich was and is one of the biggest civil airports in Europe - an still live in that region. Contrails are normal to people whop live there.

    I don't believe that chemtrails from airplane engines are some sinister plot to spray weather control or mind control chemicals onto people. All one has to do is fly into these "chemtrails" and test what they're made of. Very easy to prove or disprove. So far, nobody has done that. Maybe this is a job for Mythbusters.
    I remember seeing persistent contrails them as a kid in Minnesota. Of course I didn't know that they were called "persistent contrails" but pretended that they were planes bearing down on my location and that I had to hide.

    I think this is paranoia. That's a lot of money and tooling to fit every jetliner and military jet with tanks and sprayers. For a future sale? After what - 30 or 40 years of doing this? Where do the chemicals come from? Who's paying for their production, secret transport to airports, pumping into planes? Do the fueling crews have different trucks for different tanks?
    I am an aircraft nerd as well as an air traffic controller. I work in a control tower and watch aircraft fly over at all levels from the runway to 35,000ft. I see contrails reasonably frequently.

    When I was a kid I would always run outside and watch aircraft fly over whenever I heard them. I remember at about 5 years old (1980) lying on the grass at my local oval watching a contrail stretch from horizon to horizon and being totally absorbed with it. Contrails are not new. I do not believe the chem-trail conspiracy
    I never even considered these anything but clouds. Plus, ever since I was very young, a contrail streaking across the blue sky signifies a sunny day to me and makes me think of summer. My husband is a 3D environment artist working on animated movies and commercials. He adds contrails to provide the same effect...It reinforces a sunny, happy day to some people.
    I was 8 years old at the time. My parents explained them to me.
    Chemtrails are an Internet hoax. Now chemtrials opportunists are saying it is geoengineering which is also false. SRM has not been implemented. It is only being researched. People fall for anything these days. They also do not understand the meaning of fact or evidence. There is an epidemic of stupidity.
    I was 16 at the time and a keen aircraft enthusiast. I had never seen any "live" contrails before as where I lived in South Africa there were no high altitude airways nearby. The above time was when I visited the UK and indeed, was quite excited to see them as I'd only seen pictures before!

    In 1980 I was 3 :) I also live in Ireland, under what was one of the main flight corridors for transatlantic traffic. Recently the ATC has allowed direct (not held to the corridors) flights so planes tend to appear in more places in my sky.
    I'm an astronomer with an interest in aviation, ans as such I have always been looking up and paying attention to the sky. I often see ice haloes, and I pay attention to the formation of contrails as it will be a reasonable determinator of my sky conditions that evening for stargazing - nothing worse than seeing a lovely clear blue sky turn milky with cirrus. If contrails are persistent there is a strong likelihood that the skies will not last to dark.
    If a child of 8 years can understand the physics behind a contrail it shouldn't be this much of a mystery to certain people.

    Please continue the good work of educating people and encouraging them to think for themselves.

    Of course there are more contrails now than many years ago, because there are more people, and far, far more flights! And anyone familiar with cloud formations knows that altitude temperature and winds affect contrails. I only got on this website because my sister has somehow decided to drink the Kool-aid regarding this Chemtrail Conspiracy theory. She somehow believes that Monsanto and the mysterious "elite" are trying to get rid of the vast majority of humans, so that they can retain possession of our planet all for themselves. It may not be a bad idea, but I rather doubt such an undertaking could be successfully hidden.

    The contrails I notice most often are those streaking across the sky above my home in Indian Wells, in the Coachella Valley. Of course they are from the many flights that have by that point reached high altitude, as they head due east from LAX. It's a heavily traveled route!

    Perhaps you could post on your site information regarding the exponential growth in airline flights over the last 50 years.
    I was a young when I noticed my first (that registered as a memory anyway..remember because i was bored waiting for my first puppy-love to drive by)

    **i notice them several times a month now only because i tend to specifically look. most likely wouldnt register as a memory at all if not for MB. i cant even remember what i was wearing two days ago or if there were clouds saturday.
    People are idiots.
    For real....

    1984 = 5 years old for me. They've always been there - the absence of them would be more surprising. Plenty of transatlantic planes traversed the airspace over where I grew up.
    persistent contrails = contrails

    chemtrails = not existent in real world
    Hello. I was born in 1980 in the GDR (German Democratic Republic) and lived until 1989 in the small town Gardelegen. Several times a year led the Soviet and East German armed forces (NVA) military maneuvers in the area. This included interception maneuvers with MIG21. So my first persistent contrails, I could see in 1985 during such a maneuver, wi.

    Thank you for your good job.
    Kindly regards from Germany :)
    David Weber
    At first I did buy in to the "chemtrail conspiracy" but something didn't sit right with me so i looked a bit closer at some of the evidence and reached the conclusion that while there is certainly a chemtrail "phenomenon" the phenomenon is how quickly and widespread the belief in this has become and how very emotionally blinded many chemtrailers are when you question their beliefs.
    Thank heaven for small mercies and Contrail-Science, although trying to convince folks that the website is not some shadowy dis-info site is another matter.....
    I worked in Meteorology for the Navy and know this is just contrail and atmospheric phenomena. I said 1985 cause that's when I probably recall watching jets in the sky as a kid. They've always been there..I'm of the opinion that most people are noticing them only recently because that's when they first became aware of "chemtrails" and started watching for them. I don't typically walk around all day looking for contrails..so for those that start doing so, and without the right knowledge, they of course assume it's the chemtrails they heard so much about.

    [Date Appoximate from "Always"]
    I have noticed them since I was 7. I had and engineer for a father and he told me exactly what they are.

    I later became an environmental scientist and took several atmospheric physics and science courses. Again contrails are just frozen water crystals or clouds as most people call them.
    Loved watching them form in the long summers of my youth. Together with lightening storms and ice halos, they were the reason I eventually studied Meteorology for 4 years at The University of Reading.
    Contrails have been there as long as I can remember. It just happens that I was 8 or 9 years old before I started noticing the sky and developing an interest in the weather. I put 1986 as the year when I first noticed contrails but I can't be sure. It was sometime between 1985 and 1988. I know in my case my perception of the world changed dramatically from age 8 to 10 and my awareness of the wider world increased dramatically.
    I was 4 years old when my father took me to see my a rocket launched to space. Since that day I always took notice to the sky and thought that contrails were actually the trails that rockets left. They stretched across they sky and lasted for hours.

    I've been seeing these things since the day my momma brought me home, and they're just contrails. Normal, harmless and whatnot. But at least their existence lets me know how crazy the people are around me. That's useful, right?
    I'm guessing a bit on when I noticed persistent contrails. I didn't know there was such a thing as the chemtrail discussion until 2010 or 2011, but I think (?) I remember persistent contrails from my childhood, at least while staring out the window on long car trips. That's why I put it in 1987, age 10. At that time I lived in northern New Jersey outside of Manhattan.
    I now notice them all the time and make a point of trying to see "unusual" ones and point them out to my friends. I now live in Seattle WA.

    I remember a trip to Amsterdam those times when we passed by Schiphol Airport. I was fascinated by the visual juxtaposition of the planes nearly touchable on the ground and the persistant ctrls in the sky.
    In my remembrance the first time I actively noticed the ctrls.
    I think it is amazing that you are willing to take on these crazies and debunk their incredibly time consuming and pointless myths.
    Hey, I'm open minded about the matter, but I have yet to see any evidence that all the contrails in the sky are actually chemtrails.
    Regarding the "How often did you see persistent trails in 2011?" question: Note:

    More persistent trails are seen during the summer months due to Seattle's typical cloud cover during fall and winter. ;) During summer I'd answer "Several times a week", and during winter it's only "Several times a month", because of this. I'm not sure if that'll skew the data somewhat, but it's true.

    I actually learned about them in a book about cloud formations that mentioned aircraft and condensation trails.
    I still have never seen one with my own eyes.

    I have almost always lived near airports or air lanes. Currently I live in Las Vegas which has McCarran Int. and Nellis AFB. I have never suffered any perceivable problems from high altitude water vapor.
    chemtrails don't exist

    I've had many long discussions with an atmospheric scientist while observing persistent contrail formation over the San Rafael desert in Utah. He was once hired by Boeing to help them develop some guidelines for avoiding contrail cirrus formation over Europe, so that their clients might avoid legislative solutions to the problems it creates there.

    So, I was inoculated against the chemtrail myth long before I first heard about it.

    Who even notices them, they're just part of the landscape, always have been.

    People need to think. The atmosphere is so powerful, so amazing, that it's impossible to control

    i first became aware of "chemtrails" via alex jones who is from austin and had a public access program on at the time. i and my friends would watch his show every day after work to get a good laugh from his histrionics and wild speculations. i have never believed in the conspiracy and am surprised that it has taken off the way it has.
    they didn't bother me at all,
    i actually like flying.
    First aware of them due to conspiracy theories promoted by radio shows, circulated papers and newsgroups. Believed it for a long time until I started critical thinking about 2010
    I remember playing goalie as a kid in AYSO, spending half the game hanging on the net like an idiot and watching planes form contrails across the sky. We lived in a little town on the shore of Lake Michigan with a lot of flyover traffic to Chicago.
    I know that persistent contrails existed long before I noticed them, because they are shown in historical photos, but I never paid them an attention before I heard about chemtrails.

    chemtrails - bullshit

    contrails - completley logical
    When I was learning physics in college [assuming this is around 2000]. I'm an electrical engineer. I think it is funny how people believe in this goofy conspiracy. I have noticed them all my life but never took note of them, till the theory started coming out, and I knew by then it was only condensation. (Simple Physics)

    Once you start looking you see more so it seems like an increase.
    I noticed more when I was learning to fly in the 1980s
    But there way be more now, I understand high bypass engines increase them
    Contrails are simple science, something that only an idiot would dispute. Sorry you have to go to this extreme to prove a point, but I am more than willing to help.
    No such thing
    If you believe chemtrails exist you need to get your priorities straight. You lead sad, pathetic, miserable, little lives.
    I would assume that my witnessing of vast amounts of contrails would be due to the fact that I live next to an airport, and thus there are nearly always 3-5 planes in the sky above my house at a time.

    I am a meteorologist, but I never lived in an area that had a lot of overfly jets.

    Mostly in winter

    I used to believe in them, and only became aware of persistant trails after reading articles on a website I thought contained reliable information, but eventually I found your website [Contrail Science]...

    My previous memories - mainly from when I was a child and perhaps had more time to gaze at the sky - were only of shorter trails and even those were quite a rare occurence in this part of the world. That was in the sixties and at that time most people travelled here by sea - I think we used to see a U.S. plane that brought supplies for the Antarctic base to Christcurch once a week

    The area where I live is not really on any international commercial flight path. Some days there are persistant trails going in a north / south direction, it seems to me this happens when there are easterly winds and they are most likely planes going from Christchurch to the pacific islands such as Fiji, Cook Islands or Tonga - I think they only go two or three times a week

    I have often seen persistent contrails when visiting the west coast of the North Island and Auckland area - there are many more commercial flights over that side of the country, both internal and international and the prevailing winds are westerlies

    It seems that there are more trails over Northland, which is not surprising as Auckland is our biggest and busiest city, with flights coming and going to various places - I think most trails are going generally north / south, or west to Australia, but I don't think there are many trails crossing each other, as there isn't much land east of NZ - (not many flights from here to South America)

    Consequently Northland has a group of "Chemtrailers" as does Taranaki (Nth Island west coast) and Nelson (they'll be seeing planes from Christchurch and Wellington) but over here there is not so much interest - apparently we aren't important enough here to spray on a regular basis!

    I have been discussing all this with a facebook group - one chemtrailer has posted this link to a 300 page report - http://saive.com/911/DOCS/Chemtrail-Symposium-Belfort-Group-300Page-Report.pdf - he says he's sent it to you but you haven't responded - it actually seems more sensibly written than anything else I've seen, so I'd be interested to see what you think of it - he also says you're known to be a cia shill so I shall be especially wary of anything you say!
    It was a perfect Sunday in mid September. The temperture was about 72F degrees, cloudless blue sky and hardly a breath of wind. Around 1:30 PM the the first jet left a contrail from horizon to horizon, east to west. As the minutes went by more and more high fling jets left their lingering contrails, they were chris crossing and coming in what seemed like squadrons but they were commercial aircraft.
    I was on my bicycle so I started for home around 3:00 because of the fast developing and very heavy overcast cloud layer. This "cloud?" looked like a giant upside down field of snow that was moving and undilating.
    I got home in 20 minutes and watched this unusual sight and within minutes it started to pour, a deluge that lasted near an hour.
    From that day to this I scan the sky everyday and you can set your watch to match the weather. Week after week it's the same, more or less.
    It is no surprise to me what Mother Nature can do with this added ammunition. Contrails cover millions of square miles of sky every day and in all probabilty the root cause of global climate change.
    Quite warm and dry here, so not many.
    My "experience" was being harangued outside of a local natural foods store by one of the two main local advocates.
    The contrail coming out of planes is so light (its mostly gaseous) that it floats ...Its not heavy and does not just drop on the ground... The Chemtrail believers must notice this and reason why would a plane try to dump something so light when they are not sure where it will eventually fall (or may never happen only) .... They could have just easily fitted it into cars on the streets and did that.
    I was watching an airshow and saw condensation tails from airplanes performing performance maneuvers. This moved into a discussion with a MSU professor about condensation trails and how the exhaust contains water.
    I first paid attention to contrails after watching an episode of "Outthere TV" for a short time I was sucked into the realm of conspiracy theories, it didn't take long to educate myself and realize that the vast majority of these theories were full of baloney. Thanks for the work you do.
    I am now living in Las Vegas as a student (going for my Commercial Pilots licence) and I am an avid aviation photographer/enthusiast. I do see what are referred to as persistent contrails (lasting longer than the "normal" few minutes), but notice them on days where high altitude winds seem to be at a minimum and air temperatures are cooler. I do not believe in chemtrails but am always open to the discussion of new ideas, explanations, or "evidence." Please feel free to contact me at any time.
    my facebook (if you use it) is Bret Omura.
    chemtrails are nonsense

    Step mothers who hate you ad know you actually trust your government like to push your buttons. So mine is a conspiracy theorist nut job who thinks any two bit website about anything is real but says my government lies and wants to kill us all. I believe that is a load of shit, but she keeps pressing it. I would like to thank you for putting together a site so helpful for me to debunk my step mom every time she starts this up. THANK YOU
    I remember watching persistent contrails when I was a child. My mother even explained to me how they were made when I asked. I have watched planes my whole life.I was very surprised to see so many people say they are new to our skies.

    I was first introduced to the phenomenon through disinformation spread by Alex Jones, whose show I had begun listening to at the time. Up until visisting this website [Contrail Science], and having since learned of his role as a disinformation agent, I had believed in the existence of chemtrails. Now I know the science.

    I believe many contrails are mistaken for chemtrails..... no doubts! But the denial of such programmes by authorities worldwide is perverse. Anyone who can see the skies and not believe that there is a significant programme underway is naive. I have found many a natural explination for contrail formation and unusual aircraft behaviour. But still no admission of the obvious programmes that interlude the 'natural' phenomenon.

    I don't know how many we have around here because I never thought about it in the past. I just look up sometimes and see contrails--some disapear, some hang around. I didn't know they were called persistent until I started searching the internet after one of our drivers asked me, several months ago, about me being in astronomy and asked me what I thought about "chemtrails"—I guess he tied astronomy when he asked me about Nibiru a couple months before that (never heard of that one either). I looked at him puzzled, he explained them to me. I laughed at him. I’ve been watching contrails come and go ever since. Looked up the high altitude enroute chart for the jetways around Kingman. And have been looking for proof, and the way to present it, that he (and another driver that is a believer) can’t refute—for his own good. That’s when I ran into your site, and another good site (http://jazzroc.wordpress.com). When I first started reading your forumns, I couldn’t believe how you could keep doing this day in and day out, giving proof and solid evidence to idiots who quote bs that has been quoted over and over and over again with no proof. But now I see it is the learning, the trying to change the unbelievers of the truth into someone with a brain that can think for themselves—or at least find the ones with a brain that can be changed. Good website.
    Your webpage is very interensting, also usefull for my thesis. Thanks

    I just heard about these things on-line and using this thing called "logic" determined the people presenting the arguments for chemtrails were full of shit.

    Please stop being afraid of condensation.

    Believed in chemtrails for a year. After arguing and investigating realised there was no proof.
    Looked like a metorite trail - lots of planes about but this was blacker wide and weird!
    No major airports nearby. Other the the sound of a jet passing overhead I would probably never notice in my normal day to day activities.
    • Funny Funny x 1
  3. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    And the "Yes, they are being sprayed deliberately" people
    Hello my American friends (I'm assuming from the website information). For all my life I have watched the skies and have suddenly noticed the phenomenon in Germany during WW2. I have seen many of the Luftwaffe go by in my town (never with these long, persisting trails) and personally had family members in the SS who told me about the weather modification techniques at the time. Most of the techniques were obtained through intelligience groups in the United States of America who had their hands on the compartmentalized information. Most of it had to do with aerosol modification and how they could create clouds and haze through the use of chemical trails from airplanes with a variety of compounds that would increase the Cloud Condensation Nuclei. They said how this would have an astounding effect on battlefield conditions for their opposition. Most of the breaches happened because vulnerabilities at the time were not mended due to the attention focused primarily on the Manhattan Project. Also, I overheard many of the scientists working for the SS discuss how they could create a contraption analogous to what Nikola Tesla had described with the use of finely tuned ELF and EHF waves that could suddenly eradicate humidity. They would pinpoint and concentrate these powerful waves at fine metal oxides released from airplanes in aerosol form and could virtually eliminate clouds and rain and would be able to form droughts over an entire area for the enemy. I even overheard a conversation talking about the production of artificial earthquakes with these devices as mentioned explicitly in Nikola Tesla's writing. I now know what these are and became aware as I saw weather warfare occur firsthand when we were covertly tested on with the material during '43 after being notified by an SS agent. The material coming out of the planes is near similar to what we know today as chemtrails. They are long, white streaks that expand from one side of the horizon to the other hazing the sky. The tactic is nothing more than of a geological/weather combat. I am very concerned for the future of our home here on Earth and very concerned about the sustainable development of the world. The natural vegetative habitat is becoming eradicated. God bless you people and hope you take action. I am nearing my end as a senior citizen in Munich seeing a once beautiful, natural world turned into a post-industrial wasteland.
    The first time spotting the trails was nearly 50 years ago when I was in high school. My dad worked at Lockheed Aircraft where they tested many planes. There were vapor trails that followed the planes during certsain speeds and there were white trails following the planes so you could find them in the air more easily. The further away the plane was from the smoke trasil the faster he was flying. But there were other trails that did not follow what I just described but were systematicly laying trails across the sky.
    Today 2011-2012 there are a numerous trails every week. Some days are just a few and others I have seen up to 35 criss crossing the sky like a checker board. The trails come early in the morning and into the dusk at night.
    my dad noticed them in the 60s. i was made aware of them when i was seven in 1972. i have over the years looked at many movies to view the sky. as far back as the 50s there are noticeable chemtrails. the planes markings are the same every day in the area where i currently live. i am amazed that people as a whole are so duped into these fake clouds. i have watched these since 72 almost every day. there is nothing rogue about these patterns, they are deliberate. it blows my mind that this cant be exposed.
    TRUST NO ONE.............................

    In2011 there was not one day that they where not spraying chemtrails and I have the photographic evidence(I saw the stars 3 days in 2012)
    In 1993 I seen a tv interview on MCTV Sudbury Ontario from Manitoulin Island Ontario Canada. A Man used a telephoto lens to photograph the aircraft that was chem trailing. The aircraft were clearly a KC10 or KC 135 tanker with U.S Air force markings .
    On question six, I wish I could elaborate.
    I would have to say, not new, just noticed how different they were from the contrails I watched in the sky as a kid.

    Is this a govt research site? To say that chemtrails are bogus means you are an idiot or a govt stooge! The government has countless airborne and spraying laws on the books.

    These are not what the kooks think they are, but they were quite real and deliberate. One book I recall having influenced me to at least look into the phenomenon was "Deadly Skies" - my jury is still out on what impact they've had; hope this helps.
    They are spraying and people and pets have respiratory problems blamed on "Pollen". I am not blind and if there are that many passenger planes
    putting those trails up there "in a grid no less" as some people claim, then they need to be curtailed. Whatever is polluting and turning the skies to silver needs to STOP. Just how stupid do "they" think everybody is? Not all of us swallow the lies they spew. The agenda is to depopulate the planet and if it means by weather or food shortages or plagues, they will do it. What makes me angry besides the arrogance of these "special chosen ones" is that we, the people are paying for our own destruction bit by bit.. We are now talking war again, another way to kill large numbers of people. faster. No one will convince me chemtrails are false. Passenger planes just don't fly those patterns and turn the sky silver.

    I think it has aluminum phosphate and barium and things that cause dementia and Alzheimer's I also think that it's got smart dust in it that creates a three-dimensional map of everybody every living thing and everything on the planet
    I have watched these trails for several years and they are not contrails. As you watch the miles long trail stay there after the plane is gone you will see it spread out several miles and then something rains down. I have seen the planes cross each other making a big x in the sky. Another time one plane made a huge circle and s second plane put a line across the entire circle. These are not normal procedures. I am waiting for some to create the skull and crossbones to just rub it in our faces. One thing I have noticed is on a clear blue sky day when you see them all over the place that by the end of the day it looks like full overcast and the next day it is cold, windy and sometimes it will rain. It is not normal and I believe you know more than you are willing to say. These government conspiracy people are the same ones that wrote about the housing bubble bursting, the banks failing, the mortgage companies cheating to approve loans and the fall of the dollar. It goes on and on. Your thoughts?
    Barium, alumunum
    sulfer and nano particulates are unhealthy. continuing this is also very unhealthy for the partisipants.
    I live in Florida and see more persistent and frequent chemtrails -- notably on sunny days with few clouds.

    I have taken stunning close up photos of chemtrails being generated in Southern Florida.
    Started hiking and notice the trails. They are always in the path of the sun (Light). have seem them at night
    they are always laid west of the city, drift across easterly, most often don't disappear, just spread out to meet parallel trails, and then slowly drift together to make the sky white, sometimes they appear to be darker, as if black spray matter in the trail , if sun gets behind trails once they have come together , rainbow like colors appear in the trails.
    We go to the beach on a beautiful cloud free day, and then parallel lines are laid across the sky, within a few hours they have joined together blocking out the sun, the sky white with no character at all, othertimes the lines get really low by the time they cross my work building, you can see them fanning out and dropping, never going away like ice crystals should. Not crazy just enjoy looking up.
    I am an Air Force veteran. In the winter in Texas we would get what the weather man would call Blue Northerns. A beautiful clear winter day. Not anymore. 2/26/2012 was a clear blue sky by 2:00pm I counted over 38 jets which left the entire sky hazy.
    I have photos of planes flying in formation leaving persistent "contrails".
    In 1999 our sky started looking like a checker board with chemtrails, and spreading out and covering the whole sky.
    When more people see this happening. The Public expects an answer, with evidense. If nothing come forth coming. I'm confident groups in country will be attacking thses facilities to stop it.
    The 2011 chemtrails were in Medford Oregon. I had seen them in Medford Oregon in the past also in Portland Oregon.

    I know that the trolls are just going to be screaming "allergies", but if I take my son outside to go to his grandma's on a heavy spray day, he gets a horrible upper respiratory infection. I know its not him because he can go outside any day the skies are clear and be just fine. I do love my country, but this government is out of control, and I believe they need to be held accountable for this.
    Your website's very existence is a blatant attempt to justify chemtrails under circumstances which make no sense unless you have an agenda for covering up the truth.

    I challenge you to prove me wrong: if chemtrails are normal airplane exhaust, why would you go to such lengths as this website does to prove it?

    If chemtrails are normal airplane exhaust but some people believe in Santa Claus, fairies and that normal jet-fuel exhaust sometimes does hang around for hours and blanket the whole sky.... no NORMALLY scientifically-inclined person would spend such an effort to prove such beliefs incorrect.

    The ONLY reason you are so determined is because you believe chemtrails need to be covered up, and this either comes from your convictions or more likely it derives from business partners in high office who support and/or finance you.

    Your site is disinfo and you are NOT just "some" guy. I can't wait for the day when YOU are charged with crimes against humanity.
    I'm a Private Pilot.
    I've stared at the sky my whole life.
    In 2002 (approx), I observed white lines being painted in the sky in
    a grid-like deliberate pattern at high altitudes.
    I lived close to Logan International Airport in Boston.
    I've seen thousands and thousands and thousands of jets fly overhead and
    leave a short condensation line.
    Leaving motive, toxiciy, etc..aside....these so called "Chemtrails" are a novel and highly variant form of sky markings/ emissions from jetliners.

    I don't see them that often...but when I do, they are unmistakebly unique.
    I was six when I first noticed them

    when is it going to stop? Why is geoengineering being done and how can it be stopped?

    Be very, very careful when you discount persistent trails.
    If you are wrong, you are shooting yourself and your children in the heart.
    This is extremely serious.
    How likely is is that persistent trails are easily observed in the summer skies in Israel which are usually cloudless and always rainless and have average daytime temperatures of 85-90 F??

    I know this is a chemtrail "debunking" site, so my experience or beliefs won't count for a whole lot. I do remember being a kid in the 1950s, playing outdoors all summer, and NEVER seeing a "persistent contrail." I remember spending a lot of time gardening outdoors in the 1970s and NEVER seeing a persistent contrail. Now i see them all the time. I have come to recognize the way they disperse into a haze that fills the whole sky. In the rainy weather I observe them often lingering in the sky above the "real" clouds. On days that would otherwise be cloudless and glorious they often scum up the sky and hide the sun. There is something different going on. I can't claim to know what it is but I also can't buy the idea that its just normal stuff.
    Personally I think the most disturbing thing is not so much the persistence of contrails, but the fact that they widen and expand as if it was just a chemical reaction
    It's odd how they go from horizon to horizon

    2009-2010 was extremely bad over the SFV NORTH / NEWHALL BORDER...2011 and 2012 have had contrails but not in the blanketing abundance and daily consistency of prior years.

    I can tell the difference between a contrail and a chemtrail.
    In the past week I've noticed an increase in chemtrails and a new occurrence of Chemtrails at night just this past year. It is usually on very clear days with no clouds and also I see other planes of similar altitudes that do not emit the 'persistent contrails'.
    They are using nanoparticles in the air, to holographically map the underlying surface and surface of the ground. The chemtrails are being used to change the comoposition of the air to perhaps create images, change the way the sun rays hit the ionosphere. Thus manipulating human feelings and perception of the eye itself. Be on the spiritual defence. I have learned how to disable the particles in the air around me, thus making them sterile by increasing my electrical field intensity

    a frind of mine pointed them out, and I was skeptical, but after investigating I am convinced they are real and the population is being sprayed like cockrtoaches.

    They are spraying more frequently than usual 2012. They are trying to control Global warming and CO2 levels by putting particles up in the stratosphere. It is called Geo-engineering, who can better explain it than David Keith.
    real stuff, a little metalic dust makes the atmosphere a plasma much more capable of cunducting and reacting to electro magnetic influences.

    barium and aluminum, not to mention biological compounds, sicken & reduce populations, and controls them thru brain wave entrainment.

    most science will say no, but most science is funded by the guys doing this
    very compartmentalized, lots of small puzzel pieces, but few big picture vies of what is happening.

    Checkpattern sky, exact 90° angles, it was hot summer day, also short "contrail" airplains in the sky, about as high as the "sprayer" dircetly over me....in the evening, the whole sky was wiht and bright.
    I watch the sky and airplanes, since i was a child. It was the fiorst time is saw this, and it wasnt the last.

    more over there is a metallic smell in the air which lasts about 3 days and it usually happens when there is hardly any wind. It results in a sore throat if I am outside any length of time.

    There should be a law created to stop these evil chemtrails.
    since noticing white lines in sky i have noticed they are sparying in front of the sun all day long .the horzion is is always a mess with white lines now and fake cloulds
    Chemtrails are real. I have a picture of two planes flying, one jet coming in on the other and meeting up with it in the sky.....flying together, side-by-side. Not only is this highly dangerous, it is in crude disregard of flight regulations.

    When I first saw them above me in the early morning I was taken aback as there are only two flight paths near me and these where in a criss, cross pattern. Since then I have seen many long streaks of these trails at different times of the year.
    why is there so many. Seen them for a while but there much more evertime i walk outside there a plane flying leaving those trails?

    If there are routine flights going over, then why is it some days there are no chemtrails and other days there are more? Why is it that some times I've seen clear blips in-between the spewing out of long streams of the stuff? I usually spend time outside to enjoy the outdoors, but when I noticed the long streaks of cloud like stuff, I started asking about what was it the jets were spewing. Were they trying to create precipitation - like cloud seeding?
    I remember seeing many planes as a childsince we lived near O'Hare and Midway and never, ever remember such a quantity of "stuff" coming off the backs of whatever kinds of planes moving so high in the air. My take on it is that these are military planes doing maneuvers and NOT commercial planes - so back off on the issue of changing what they do would have airlines charging more for plane tickets. The TSA's groping and radiating is doing it's part on discouraging people from flying. I think we continue to have change - unfortunately much of it is negative and harmful and yes, a lot of us don't like it, especially when it has to do with poisoning the air, the earth and the water - whether it comes from a car, a train, a plane, or a factory.
    I'm near the airport and they NEVER seem to be going or coming from there! Yet they keep going back and fourth.
    Its obvious that there is something being sprayed in the atmosphere. OBVIOUS

    There should be no flights anywhere near here. Every day, they start out in the morning and go on through the day, spreading out and covering over what was totally blue sky, that then become just a gross haze that looks like living in a polluted city. I'm 52... I've looked at clouds my whole life. Now, I see 'real' clouds, maybe a total of 5-10 hours each week. The rest of the time, it's junk that has spread out from jets that shouldn't be flying near Brookings.
    Mick West you're a total f-ing moron if you believe there are no actual chemtrails. A TOTAL F-ING MORON. The US Government has been doing it for decades asshole. The US Military & Government are lying f-ing turds- JUST LIKE YOU. You're not a f-ing scientist- just a GRADE A ASSHOLE. GOVERNMENT SUCK UP BITCHBOY...F YOU DOUCHEBAG LIAR.
    Bunch of f-in clowns. I live next to an airport, so go f yourselves if think these lies are going to be believed. To recap, f u and ur sponsors.
    So the NASA site that shows "predicted contrail" formation is here for Jan 1st 2012....http://ge.ssec.wisc.edu/modis-today...y_coastline=false&sector=USA4&resolution=250m

    Also here is another Satellite view of the same area showing contrails. How come the predicted contrail "radar" doesn't show contrails can form there but there are in fact contrails. FYI... I have many more examples...

    I became upsest with staring into the sky for hours. I had set up telescopes hooke dup to a computer with a motor So i could follow the planes. I became so interested with this.

    Every day their are always planes in the sky. Some days I wake up and the sky is already full. I can put money on it, EVERY DAY their are planes spraying. I live in the L.A area and Its awful out here.

    In the morning with the fog you can see "smog like" clouds falling from the sky. Ill have to take pictures of it over the valley. Its awful.

    WHen its foggy you can see everything falling from the sky. In the distance it loooks like the sky is pooping on us. Its so nasty we breathe this in every day.

    Its like a black rain when its foggy.
    i watch the sky regularly and you can tell on a hot day they lay them in thick and then sun is covered and the day never gets as nice as it should i also fish in the Columbia river gorge and they spray there in mass you will see 4 planes at a time sometimes i take a lot of pictures and have even seen some weird bubble clouds there. it took me a while but lerned from the internet!
    Would like to see a detailed video where the chemtrails and contrails are compared, many people still think its a contrail and its hard to convince them they are not.
    my sister's ex husband had been seeing them for over 20 years before po- inting them out to me. his daughter was doing a report on them for a high school class of her's. ever since that day i have seen them in every state i have traveled through,as i drive a truck. i know the difference between a ligitament contrail and a chemtrail. i watch them being made every day every where i go. it blows my mind. i just want to know the truth.
    It has to do with number of the beast 666 all the ariels and masts great manipulation evil taking a way freewill
    Noticed some odd trails today.I live in a rural area,with a tiny airport.There where 7-8 large planes in the sky overhead together in various directions coming going,crossing through the trails of the plane before them,looking like an intentional grid or Tic tac toe board in the sky. I have seen this before here,first noticed it a few years ago. I can not figure out why we would have that many planes flying over us (rural tiny city) at the same time in the same air space,criss crossing like that. Some one needs to investigate this, provide answers to the public.

    I often wake up early, just before day break, and I watch the sky go from clear blue to littered with white lines that spread into clouds and last all day.

    Two days after I saw these, my family, came down with cold like symptoms. I have also noticed, more people in te waiting room, at the clinic.
    I first noticed a video about them a couple of years ago, then I stated to look up, I wanted to know why they hung in the atmosphere for so long, and didn't behave like normal contrails. I researched and didn't like what I was reading. I have noticed a strange faint smell and residue on my washing if I left it out after they sprayed. I feel something is going on and more than meets the eye.
    I learned what chemtrails are about, when i started searching about the New World Order (2009 or 10) but i'm sure that i had seen them before when i was a child (i'm 22 now) and my mom was telling me that this was to help them see how strong is the wind (the stronger the wind, the faster the trail disapperars)

    I saw some news about circular persistant contrails that made people alarmed in the uk and contacted autorities, and they told them it was a NATO airplane doing that thing. I saw, with witnesses, a plane spreading circular contrails at high altitude at about 15 km west of my location, from 1 pm until 4 pm, it began at a lower altitude when it ended it was much higher. At about 4 pm, the plane suddenly abandoned the circular route, which was about 50 km in diameter, and went north, but "switched off" the contrail. I wish I had filmed it. My friend has a photo of it at about 3 pm. Bill Gates actually supports this type of "study" that is being done all over the world. Today, 9th february 2012, no persistant contrails at all, just normal traffic and normal contrails. Yesterday, 4 planes leaving persistant clouds behind in the morning, 2 of them flying parallel, and in addition to them, the normal traffic in the sky leaving the normal contrails behind. I had acknowledged of this conspiracy thing from a friend and he was also skeptic about it, as myself, but when i saw reports about this being a prevention of global warming, and the US air force expecting to be able to control the world's wheater at 2025 (officially), I did started to believe that these are not normal contrails. I don't know if it is good or not, but these are not normal contrails, period. I plan to buy a 750 mm telescope, when I can afford it, to watch the air traffic, and take photos, of all of them, normal or not.

    I could not believe the U.S. (do now) would steal OUR sky.
    i should be in the new world order, and will be.
    heard multiple reports since the mid ninties about chemtrail spraying in others areas of US. Only the past few years have noticed them in Palm springs area.
    This is real I have a huge problem with your site trying to debunk it! What is your dog in this fight?
    It's seems the spraying is more consistent when rain is in the forecast. I also have hundreds of photos that prove they are not just contrails. Sometimes it looks like there are waves made in the clouds by an external force. Almost like ripples in a pond.
    In October 2011, I moved to Greensburg, Pennsylvania. They are spraying here almost daily also.

    i have noticed the planes are not flying over heavily every day but i do always see at least one everyday. It seems as if they will spray heavily for a week or so and then cut back extremely every few days. I have seen perfectly nice sunny wonderful days turned to muggy hazy cloudy afternoons completely due to chem trails. People need to know the difference between an earth made cloud and a chem trail haze.
    after sprayng the same or other day there was rain

    One day my toddler asked if a plane had crashed in the mountains because the (many, many)trails were looping all over the place. We do not have a busy airport (and no private planes who just fly around in loops) and are not really on a flight plan for any major airports, so I started to wonder. Then a plane crashed south of us an the newspaper photo showed it in a pool of silvery liquid that was not flammable.http://geoengineeringwatch.nature4less.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/chemplane2.jpg

    Now I notice them all the time. There is a guy in my FB newsfeed that takes photos of the sky several times a day and the proof is hard to refute.
    I'm just trying to figure out what is causing an epidemic of thyroid problems among women in my small rural town. I'm not as much concerned with Barium as I am Aluminum being sprayed. I know cloud seeding takes place, but my doctor said Arkansas didn't pay for cloud seeding. Therefore, I'm wondering if it could be GMO's, something in our water supply, or something totally different. We do not have a single factory in our small town; we have many, many fields/crops surrounding us. I, myself, practically live in a field. Also, I spray Round-Up every summer to prevent weeds. I live in a small town, but I do not know everybody. There are nine cases of thyroid disorders just from acquaintances of mine, including my mother, my best friend's mother, my hairdresser, and two co-workers. Since this is not a contagious disease, this seems like more than a coincidence. If you have any thoughts, please feel free to contact me at joyamorgan@sbcglobal.net
    i have noticed some days i wake up the sky is clear . then the next morning the whole sky could be 80% covered in grid like formations of thick contrails which spread out into a white haze. ive have video planes flying over leaving short normal contrails then others on the same day leaving a thick line right across the sky as far as i can see. its clear to me that some jets are using different fuel . i have even filmed to jets in the same shot one leaving a long contrail while the other dissipates almost straight away . i am growing more concerned
    I recall seeing days of excessive contrails and thinking how strange it is that one day there are many and some days none at all. Why was that? Then I learned about chemtrails and now I am aware of them. I pay attention to them constantly. It's completely obvious to me that they are deliberate. I even notice the "residue" clouds that are in the skies after heavy spray days. They are darker. I often take pictures of the skies when it's extremely strange looking. I have dozens of them.
    ...I became aware of Chemtrails while studying up about the RFID implant (known about since 1995), then fluoride awareness followed that plus 'the rest of it' !!
    This entire site is skewed - trying to deviate away from the truth and labelling people who are concerned as conspiracists. Why don't you take a look yourself at any geo-engineering web-site, and/or weather consulting companies. There are over a hundred patents that have been taken out since 1991 for spraying aluminum, barium and strontium in the upper atmosphere. Boeing and Hughes Aircraft are just two companies who hold patents for geo-engineering. It isn't difficult to see you are part of the conspiracy to lie to the public, and keep information private that should be public. Everyone deserves to know they're being sprayed with harmful chemicals. If the bee colonies which are collapsing at unprecedented rates could talk - they would point to chemical aerosols. So too would the massive fish and bird deaths. You should be ashamed of yourselves for lieing to the public. We have witnessed the planes above Victoria B.C. Canada turn completely around and line grid patterns above the Pacific West Coast. These are not normal contrails - morons. It is infuriating that you, whoever you are, would participate in this cover up. I'm sure you must be taking steps to protect your family's health? Good luck with that.
    seen a few early morning spraying 8am one day until 11am seen some already in 2012 where the sun is in the afternoons when the sky is nice and blue they spoil it with the trails turning the sky hazy near the sun and ruining what would of been a nice day they also leave x signs in sky
    I believe that this is very much a government program, occuring around the world, that is having disastrous consequences regarding human health and the environment, and we need to increase awareness so this program can be ended once and for all
    u can see see a contrail, same conditions then a chemtrail, u can see.

    The sky is changing and someone is doing it

    I fimed these chemtrails occasionally in 2011 but on Dec. 1, 2011, they have flown over my small, rural, farmland city everyday that I can view them. NO jets ever flew over the coastal marshland of Louisiana.(Counting 50+ daily). Also, many days, they spray the thick nasty stuff from before sunrise until after sunset. Some days the jets fly over and have NO visible trails but we noticed white fibers & white blobs, & strange biting black bugs floating in the sky & landing on fences, trees & shrubs. Yes, we've taken samples. This has to STOP!
    There could have been more sitings but I just became aware of what they were in the latter part of 2011.

    I just saw some last week. The sky was sort of cloudy but then there was a break in the clouds and there were three trails across the sky.

    They were wide and rather yellowish in color.

    i had noticed the chemtrails and realized i hadnt seen anything like these at all...i thought that couildnt be that man jets flying over. usually when a jet flies by, the white cloud doesnt stay around very long...these chemtrails stay around all day long and just cover the sky...weird designs. and the sunset and sunrise are more in color then i have ever seen.....seems strange!!
    stop planes leaving persistant contrails
    there are cris cross X patterns in the sky. Planes constantly in the skies.
    I have never seen the sheer number of trails in the sky before and I could see the planes that were leaving the trail. We are no far from JFK and have seen planes circle and but this seemed unusual. I always thought it was just paranoia from people claiming they were spraying but today I had to question that.

    AT first te chemtrails were south of Toronto in US airspace in 2012 I noticed they were occuring in what is obviously CANADIAN air space.
    They have steadily increased and are now laticed in an obvious pattern and not just contrails of airplanes going from one destination to another.

    i dont know what or why, but nobody can tell me im not seeing this! ive got tons of pics. ive always taken pictures of sunsets, weather, etc. so yeah, i noticed right away when these weird jets started making lines in the sky. clouds just dont do that.
    I am 100% sure that the world elite has something to do with these chemtrails, wether it's for climat modifications, blocking sun or spreading bacterias. NWO is coming !
    They seem to happen on clear days in the fall. I have not looked very hard in the summer for them. I saw them today - 10.25.13, starting right at sunrise and seemed to stop around noon. They mostly seem to go roughly west to east.
    As one who lived and worked near O'hare (ORD) for 12 years and also lived near Midway (MDW) for several more, I am quite familiar with planes and what occurs in the sky. These persistent trails are different. They spread out. They don't disappear. They make the blue sky hazy. They don't follow normal flight patterns. I've seen them in the sky along with a normal passenger plane coming in for a landing. The passenger plane does not normally have a trail at all. The passenger planes that are higher in altitude (not landing in Chicago) might have a trail that dissipates on occasion, but not like what I am seeing these days. Something is wrong, something is happening. I read about the battle against global warming. I was footage of the Scientist Convention in San Diego (oh, and I lived there for 4 years in the 90s in Mission Hills and had view of the airport from my home). No, there were no persistent trails in the skies there.

    I watch a contrail appear, and sometimes hear or see a jet. Then the contrail spreads out and continues spreading until it looks like clouds, they seem to collect more clouds to them. The sky fills with streaks of various width and direction from this continuous trail making.
    I think the public has a right to know about any weather management, solar radiation management or environmental testing program taking place in their respective region or state. I have read quite a bit about this and believe that global warming is caused more from anthropological forces than natural ones. I also feel that whatever is taking place in our skies is adverse to our health. It doesn't help matters to see so many forces at work to debunk valid observations and investigative reports introduced by many concerned citizens, pilots, scientists and even well known figures who support the GW theory, like Al Gore, who appears to be very dubious about geoengineering projects and covert testing by NASA, military or other elite entities. A corrupt and ever expanding government that acts autonomously in too many cases is to blame for promoting such a moot theory as being "critical" and in need of such controversial and unjustified expense and risk.

    I am really scared they have sprayed in droves for two days, don,t understand why they need alluminium, also have heard they carry viruses, i don,t understand, we will alll die, don,yt see how they think they won,t. all happening at the olympics 2012 i hear, they will blame aliens,
    Ex govt. Employee w security clearance pointed this out to me

    Today, 3/24/2012, was the most i have ever seen at the same time. i first noticed them back in the late 90's. It was Christmas day and they made an anarchy sign. that was my 1st experience and have been looking up ever since.

    These "chemtrails" have been apearing since I was small. Contrails apear becasue of airplane engines meet cold air in high altitudes of 30,000 feet and leave a white vapor trail. These contrails usualy disapear within hours. But these chemtrails stay there all day and start spearding across the sky. I am having doubts of my own governemnt.
    On November 2012 at 7:15 a.m, I took my grandchildren to catch their school buses. During the 20-30 minute wait, we witnesses over 3 dozen chemtrails in the narrow stretch of sky over I-77 at Elkview, WV. The section of sky we could see in the narrow valley stretched about 10 miles or less in length and a few miles in width due to our hilly terrain over the Elk River Valley. This narrow expanse of sky made the view extremely disturbing. All the planes were emitting chemtrails from beginning to end and they were coming from every direction make what appeared as a web made by a deranged spider. It looked like war with every man for himself. One plane even made a 90 degree turn from East to South, which I'd never witnessed before. A few of the chemtrails were dark grey and all others were white. I took pictures with my granddaughter's cell phone but she managed to delete them before I had time to download them to my computer. I'm attempting to make contact with other who may have taken photos. I contacted a local TV station to see if they had heard what was happening and they had no clue. Said they'd update me if they learned anything but I've heard nothing.
    I noticed conection beetween my acute sinusitis and strange type of headache (tablets doesn't help) and chemtrails, also I noticed heart arithmya few hours after spraying.
    I feel like I don't see the fluffy clouds I once did. One thing I know I haven't seen in a very, very long time...When grey clouds used to form and you could see a storm roll in, and when it was done, you would see a rainbow. The only rainbow I see now are the rings that form when the sun is shining through a chemtrail.
    Chemtrails were first created by our government to use during war to block radar from seeing our ships in the sky. I notice in San Antonio how murky it has recently in the past year gotten in the sky like a hazy cloud. I noticed people around me would get sick even my self when I am a very healthy person. Some days my brain just feels real off and even other people will ask me the same question because they know chemtrails exist. No this is not allergies. Chemtrails were created to create clouds around us once they are sprayed because they are genetically engineered clouds. You can't say that they never existed or this is a lie.
    I feel like they are making me sicker with more trouble breathing. It's harder to breathe when this is going on, more than I've previously experienced.
    chemtrails appear in the East in the early morning & sprayed throughout the day into the West contrails disappear ~these spread into long wide clouds some days it looks like there was a parade of planes in the sky..too many to count......people I point this out to say they always thought they were 'con' trails
    It was never like this before this century. It was never like this ten years ago. The trails cross the whole sky, from horizon to horizon. Sometimes they run in grid-like patterns. Sometimes there are just rows of them. Often I see them wafting in from over the ocean in rows early in the morning. As the day progresses they spread and cover the whole sky in a layer of silvery-grey. The sunlight that filters through the layer is often an un-natural hue. It's hard to describe the light but it 'feels' metallic. It's clearly not natural. My fear is that anyone younger than me might not be able to see the change despite the radical difference.
    I was aware of the theory of "chemtrails" before this time, but never given it much thought or examination. Then one day, I was completing a 5-day hike in Yosemite, and noticed all these jets show up and make criss-cross patterns in the sky. It was noticeably-odd behavior. Since then I have noticed them on a regular basis at home some miles away. It's very obvious if you just keep an eye to the sky...
    The most disturbing for me is the halos around the sun as the trails dispearsed, and then theybega to create a haze that covered the entire area of the sky above the San Juan Islands here in Washington state....it blocked the sun and created a very odd glow. the patterns of trails were regular and sometimes crisscrossed in grids. This was mostly during the summer and early fall months. I have not see this during clear days this winter.....and I have been looking for it and taking photographs.
    Being a keen photographer I decided to go back through some holiday photos, I found chemtrails in photos from 2002.
    They seem to come and go, sometimes a bunch at a time, like today, 9/29. Other times, perhaps weeks go by, and I think they are stopped.

    On Coast-to-Coast radio people across the mid-west described snow found below them that had very weird characteristics. Anyway, what we see today sure can't be regular "con-trails", as they last so darn long. And they always seem to end right at the Mexico border.
    First saw 04/28,2013 Lots and lots of lines crossing and no very linear. Does not look like a natural thing.
    I see various quadrants of the sky being affected on different days as if one area is being targeted. I have seen planes flying back and forth in a grid, sometimes more than one plane. They are always silent. I have seen 'normal' contrails on the same day dissipating in 10 to 20 seconds, with the planes flying past one way (not in a grid). These planes are not silent.

    This has gotten so bad in Dallas area you have no Sun.I have 100s of Photos and called Police I post on my FB all over emails.Its also started badly in Minnesota and at my Sisters Over Lake Fools Lake Crosby Mn.Also Badly in Brainerd and Baxter Minnesota. Now we see everywhere as we travel.They are on purpose and i have Skyderalert Alert App on my cell that takes the pix when i see them.Its so bad i have sinus issues.Earaches.Allervies.Lots of health problems. We're going back to . Minnesota because i refuse ro live here where they are non stop.poisoning us.Please please can you brkp.I love Texas but it's above our home almost daily and so many ppl know yet nothing is done.Ive sent to Dallas Fort Worth Airport Page to as I'm furious.I know these are not CONTRAILS BUT CHEMTRAILS AND BAD ONES.THANK YOU DIANNE AND BRUCE HAMDORF.MCKINNEY TEXAS.Im. on tasting Civil rights lawyers and Environmental.
    In all reality, once you realize whats going on for real, you can even feel it inside of you. all the poison, & you realize that lately you just don't feel the same.... not like yourself.

    I can't believe everyone (or nearly most) are so redundantly idiotic & oblivious to this shit.....

    Why are flights so cheap in eu?
    Why are people living under trails becoming increasingly unhappy?
    What purpose serve 7billion people here on earth. Big farm.
    always over populated areas . i never see as many out in the open land

    believe it's been happening here since the spring of 2013 [First noticed 3 weeks ago]

    i've been aware of contrails since i was little. I'm a scientist with degrees from cambridge. i'm also aware of geo-engineering concepts, and was involved in early meetings about the SKA.
    i'd never seen chemtrails in hokitika, although they'd been around and about on the 'net for many years (2008 is the first time i saw them on there). I figured they (the persistent 'contrails' that existed next to normal contrails) were being laid down in clear grid patterns in order to help calibrate HAARP (it is hard to visualise atmospheric effects if you can't see them).
    I've also seen results of hail samples taken from recent freak storms in Nelson, shortly after clearly documented anomalous trails, showing unnatural aluminium concentrations. As you pointed out, aluminium is radar visible, which would help with the calibration of the southern haarp installations (and would explain the beautiful and characteristic satellite anomalies shown over australia)
    more recently, i saw some excellent chemtrails being laid down over hokitika on new year's day. there were already two long trails running parallel to shore, and i watched the plane that was putting down the crosspieces, at low enough height that i could differentiate body from wings by eye.
    there was a low coming into NZ from the west, and i assume the planes were trying to build up a barrier to stop it coming ashore. needless to say the next day was cloudy with occasional rain. today was all sunny again, and the trails are back.....
    so. i was skeptical, but it seems to me that it is more likely that people who like to run the world, and who do not want to have to deal with compensation claims when man made weather strikes, are actively carrying out weather modification, as proposed in the late 40's.
    You need to stop it, whatever the reason it is not good for our beautiful environment as God created it, Stop trying to change man is always up to no good for profit
    I watch the sky every day because I work outside, I dont remember ever seeing this many trails in the sky. I also see planes throughout the day flying at the same general altitude without trails. the planes with trails rarely follow the same routes as commercial flights tracked on flight tracking websites, and sometimes make odd turns 90 degrees. some of the trails are different color from different planes.
    We are been sprayed on with out our concent
    I think this summer was particularily bad in Ireland.It was so "cloudy"all summer.A few years ago I remember a visitor to Ireland from Belgium commenting on how much more blue sky we got here.They said the sky was grey a lot of the time in Belgium.Now I know what they mean.That grey sky is so oppressive and depressing.Fruit and veg haven't grown or ripened properly this summer.I am nearly as worried about food security as I am about the health effects of having this stuff pumped into the atmosphere.It makes me so mad to think that greedy people are playing God(though a God would not do that) and poisoning us.How many "natural" disasters have been caused by messing around with our weather.
    Deprived of sunshine july august due to persistent spraying Constant low cloud and very regular rain througout Summer months..
    I belive it has increased the last year and have even noticed more flights at night aswell
    I got aware thanks to a thread on Facebook. Now I can't understand how blind I've been.
    • Funny Funny x 1
  4. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The raw data is attached to the first post. There are certainly more interesting things to mine from within, as there were several other questions. Feel free to munge it up, create graphs, etc.
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Gridlock

    Gridlock Active Member

    The correlation between "they're chemtrails" and "not sure" is interesting. Does that just reflect people who haven't really thought about it, or does the barrage of bunk via Facebook sharing have some impact?
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    One argument that might be made is that the program started at different times in different locations. However the evidence does not support this. Sorting the data by city shows similar ranges for individual cities.
    This is something that is observed time and time again, people new to the chemtrail theory claims they never saw persistent trails before, whereas other people (including other chemtrail believers) saw them in the same location decades earlier. The classic example is J. Marvin Herndon, who claimed there were no persistent trails in San Diego before 2014, despite there being an active chemtrail community in that city for several years prior, many of whom had posted photos of persistent trails that they in turn had only just noticed, ten years earlier.
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Here are the "Not Sure" comments, a lot of them seem very close to actual believers. However I feel the self-selecting nature of the survey makes it difficult to tell anything about this particular group vs. the yes/no groups.

    In the 60s the new Glasgow Airport opened and we started seeing classic planes like Dakotas,BAC 1-11, occasional Caravelles,Tridents, Vanguards and Viscounts (BEA, Aer Lingus, KLM etc) coming in to land, flying directly over head. A few kids in my class were really into planespotting (real anoraks) so naturally enough they educated the rest of us about planes. They would listen in on small VHF radios to the planes talking to the airport.
    We would also notice jet trails high in the sky (not arriving at Glasgow, which was domestic only then), some were brief, some were persistant. They have been in the sky since I was 9/10 years old, but since deregulation of the european airspace, there has been a massive increase in them.
    The date listed is when I first saw contrails which lasted more than 5 minutes, and I asked my dad about them. I got a thorough explanation; he was a theoretical physicist with meteorological training.

    Since I've moved to Australia, I hardly ever see persistent contrails. I did see a nonpersistent one 2 days ago, patchy, the aircraft was flying through dry/humid bits of air during its climb out from YSSY.
    Born in 1962, I've always resided within 50 miles of Boston. I've noticed persistent contrails in the sky most of my life. I'm not a subject matter expert, but the length and longevity of the trails seem to depend on the weather conditions at the time.

    I see them, but I also see clouds. Everything that I have heard about the assertion that they are for nefarious or undivulged purpose is not direct evidence and seems mostly based in the idea that the persistence of the trail is what defines its composition as chemical. I have examined the 9/11 inside job theories and find them plausible and the chemtrail theorists do not have as much evidence or scientific reasoning at all. I am getting a bit impatient with this issue since one of the people caught in the fervor happens to live with me and keeps taking pictures of them as if that means anything at all.

    my dad used to take me to air shows when I was a kid. Loved when the planes would drop colored smoke. One day at my grandmothers house I saw a plane dropping what looked like white smoke behind it. I pointed it out to my father. He thought it was strange how long it persisted in the sky.

    It seems that the typical "Carolina Blue" skies are becoming less common.

    The abovementioned date 1999 was when I first saw a headline in a community paper referring to the chemtrail phenomenon. My first actual visual awareness did not occur until ten years later in 2009, a year which for me at least was exceptional in the number of suspicious sightings in British Columbia.
    I have photos of aircraft from my childhood and the skys are clear no persistant trails only shirt trails behind aircraft..
    It is very cloudy here most of the time so it is hard to judge how often this happens. Now, when it is clear, we have seen patterned trails of persistent con/chem trails (look like a grid), and in another part of the sky, other trails behind jets that dissipate, the way all jet trails used to dissipate. We have photos. The sky can be completely clear, then over a an hour, multiple con/chem trails appear, then hours later (5-6) these are still there, spread out and the sky is very hazy. My children complain that their eyes are burning and itching, often the next day following these "contrails". Our electrostatic air cleaners fill up more quickly with fine, dirty black soot like material- may have this tested as well. There is often a film on the snow, too, when it snows, that wasn't there before. We are considering having our ponds tested and some of the local snow pack. Our animals have also developed neurological (unexplained by vets) problems and some lesions. They drink the rain water (horses, and dogs). We drink tested well water so we know what our ground water levels of metals are.

    Background:..former navy fighter pilot.....aeronautical engineer....10000hours multiple aircraft including helos,multi engines,eat

    Hi and low altitude 8-10 thousand feet

    ....consistently morphs into cloud cover


    While I believe there is the ability to enhance and utilize jettrails to carry chemicals, I don't believe that lingering trails always mean purposeful spraying.

    Not sure about this. Seems that only on certain days there will be very geometric x's across the sky. Small lines in the morning and then dissipate later in the day. Very hazy afternoon/evening follows. Not sure if it's linked to raining but will be reading up more on this subject.

    i have many photo's of the weird clouds they leave too... stuff i never remember seeing before
    I would like too know how a cloud that covers the hole sky that only comes from contrails does not have an effect on the climate? I do not understand how 2 planes at the same hight and time only 1 have a short contrail last for 10 sec and 1 have contrail last for more than 2 hours. Sorry for bad english
    after becks album track 3 of modern guilt
    happens in the early morning or just before dusk. Never during the moonlight.

    jan. 2009
    I am not sure when exactly I've spotted them for the 1st time but i am 100% sure that during my childhood I would have spotted those spreading across whole sky. I really wonder what that means.
    2/4/12 I have never seen this many trails. The sky over my city was very clear this morning. The sun just gone down and at sunset their was a thick haze hanging as far as can be seen. I also checked dopler radar for my area and skies are listed as clear and shoe no clouds present or coming in to the area. I have been watching the sky all day and the clouds that are now present did not come in from the horizon.

    The morning of what was expected to be a hot day, by noon over 13 planes had been seen in the air within a half hour (unusual for this area) then it became hazy windy and cooler.
    What boggles my mind is that I don't see them everyday! I will see lots of airplanes/trails for 3 weeks then, NOTHING for 3 days, that is why I think they are not commercial,

    I am an artist doing landscapes. I've been looking up for years.

    most of them make a "V" or "U" over my community
    never witnessed one being "sprayed"
    I have noticed an increase in darker trails, not the whiter fluffy ones you would normally associate with a jet but much much darker in colour, grey/black.
    I live in a high rise building right near the San Diego airport, and see planes going by all day. I am seeing these trails more now, as it's getting warmer.
    Where are so many planes flying at such high altitudes?

    I have mixed opinions on the issue. Out here in the midwest I see them WAY too often as of late last year. The points made against the chem-trail theory are very rational and sensible, though my common sense gives me terrible vibes about them. The first time I taken a major notice to the long, persistent, thick clouds was on November 5th of 2011 while I was working as a pizza delivery driver. Normally I gaze at the sky, just as a natural tendency. I have seen these before, but nothing as intense as I've seen recently. They had COVERED the entire sky in a grid-like pattern, some crossing points like X's, and occasionally we get days where that still happens. It's seeming ever more common as time goes on. Rationally I see the logic in it being normal nearly harmless contrails. Though emotionally and intuitively, I still feel there is something very wrong with them.
    Before i lived in Sheffield where the cloud formations seemed a lot different, now i live in a coastal town where contrails persist and spread then go on to form clouds probably every 2 weeks or so.

    I live near a airport too. which explains the increased frequency.

    I see planes at what appears to be the same altitude, one leaving a persistent contrail the other leaving one which disperses quickly; on days where cloud cover forms (entire sky cloud cover), there is a crisscrossing of flights, where as on days there is not, they do not seem to criss-cross flights and there's seemingly less of them...(Of course that could explain the difference in cloud cover..)

    I've seen persistent contrails all my life -- I am 48 and orginally from the Detroit area.. The bs about chemtrail is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. No thought, no science, no attempt to try to understand the phenomenon. Just the conclusion of the delusional definition - a contrail can only last for 15-30 seconds, a chemtrail persists. When confronted with "why don't you test the alleged chemtrails for chemicals?", I am told "they have." and am shown the stupidest youtube videos I ever saw. My favorite youtube proof is the retired, white haired old lady that (probably hasn't had a visitor in years and was excited for the attention) "worked" in the government who was told by a guy who worked at Oakridge that the government was spraying the chemtrails.
    Also just visited New Mexico and Colorado-they were everywhere!!!
    Many low flying planes were leaving contrails that lasted 30 mins or more. Blue sky became hazy. Several planes kept coming one after another. Never seen so many.
    There are never any persistent trails on Sundays, I have noticed this over the last few months. I am all but convinved that chemtrails exist and I am not a normal dummy -- which is why I put don't know/not sure, because I am not 100% CONVINCED. I am educated and have good logical reasoning and a 130+ IQ as well.
    I only get a view of them up at my horses which is quite high as its lots colder. I have some awesome photos that i have no idea what they are.I have lenticular clouds and an upside down rainbow .one photo has two trails and black holes reminds u of the bottom of a rocket! theres a vortex and maybe coincidence but letters are contained. theres a halo round the sun like rainbow but between this and sun theres a roundish outline of some thing extra..no idea but for artsake i used it for some work and it is just like an upwards facing baby humanish face looking rather solemn. see it and u will velieve it. At night there us amazibg activity but my skills aint that great. sometime theres up to six lights all over dropping and reappearing and almost playful. its not fireflies. kids and me love goin up. the horses dont bother.the daily trails or wgatever they maybe are quite amazing. We got cloud pics lije a demonic skull that weird and unmaskable..horses.and scarily dragon like serpets evil looking coming straight towards the car. the exif can be checked i dont touch them only sometimes increase saturation cos it shows up the flourescenty pinks that are invisible after the cigar wingless sarkle dropping thing goes past. Anyway promise im sane. Ok.honest.lol. if u would be able to help with the vortex pic i would be grateful.

    I never payed attention to this subject prior 2012 , I was "warned" by family member in 2012 about spraying sky with "chemtrails"
    They are flying in x-patterns and i see very very many trails a day. I only live in a village not by schiphol
    I was first made aware of the chemtrails conspiracy theory at the turn of the year, simply via the internet. I bought into the theory at the time, having been swayed by seemingly sturdy evidence. Despite not judging the topic from either side at first, I knew I would rationally at some point, and that until I did I couldn't ascertain anything about the trails.
    While the real information on this site is relieving, I did experience brief symptoms of ill health after breathing outside air on days when many contrails lingered in the skies. This was on around four occasions when, during all of them, I believed in chemtrails at the time. I don't know how powerful the placebo effect is [if that is to blame] but I experienced a severe headache immediately after opening my window then leaning out of it for a couple of minutes. The headache lasted around half an hour and I can't logically attribute it to anything else - I saw ~30 'chemtrails' in the sky at the time. The headache was significant and constant, with a tingling like pins and needles, which was unusual and slightly unnerving. Scaled down headaches occured, along with a runny nose, when walking home from work [30 minute walk], only for both to disappear ~5-10 minutes upon going inside. I never otherwise get a runny nose or headache.

    Anyway, that anecdote doesn't strictly decide my beliefs like it does other theorists, but the unknown can be concerning, and though just a correlation it is difficult to attribute my symptoms to much more than a psychological placebo, or some irritant/unnatural compound breathed. The area concerned is rural with low pollen levels. Being a teenager though, I don't know any possible explanations beyond what I've mentioned.
    After gaining a lot of interest in this topic, I decided to create an Instagram page titled "SeattleSkyWatch" dedicated to spreading awareness about chemtrails and geoengineering in the Pacific Northwest. I'd be glad to help in any other way that I can.

    -Victor Covarrubias
    I have first seen chemtrail at Seong-nam air force base which is near to Yong-in city.
    The chemtrail(if exists) lasts about 4 or 5 hours or even much.
    And, in an hour after sprayed, it came down to low sky as if it cannot keep altitude anymore.
    The spraying planes were almost jet with fuselage and wings white-colored. They were surely faster than normal airliners I think.
    The closest private airports are Incheon Int'l airport and Kimpo airport. But the directions the planes heading are on all sides. They may not seem ordinary airliners.
    However, the fine dust index was very normal about 75 micro-grams per cubic meter.
    The sprayed chemtrail shaped like vortex. I guess the vortex from the wing tips affected the movement of chemicals. (Again, I'm not sure what substances are the chemtrails.)
    There were about four chemtrails in the sky. And two of them were crossed.
    Finally, it seemed that only one plane made the chemtrails. [/img]
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. Steve Funk

    Steve Funk Active Member

    Did you ask peoples' age? Anyone under 30 would have to put first noticed 1990's or later.
    • Like Like x 1
  9. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    True. but that still proves then that they are too young to remember if they ever saw persistent contrails prior 1995. And those half of respondants would be 5 years old in 2010.
  10. Steve Funk

    Steve Funk Active Member

    The unanswered question is are these believers too young to be able to personally verify whether contrails used to persist, or are they older people who never bothered to notice this until someone told them about "chemtrails."
  11. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Unfortunately not, the data in the spreadsheet is all there is (except emails, which I removed).
  12. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Actually, there is the "At that time, how long had you lived there", and there's plenty of believer who noticed them after 2010, but had lived there over 20 years. I'll try to munge up a chart.

    Example: (this is all in the spreadsheet)

    So here's a guy who lived in the same place for 35 years, but did not notice persistent trails until 2015, after he read about them on Facebook.
    • Like Like x 1
  13. MikeG

    MikeG Senior Member

    I liked this comment from the chemtrail believers group.

    "I also think that it's got smart dust in it that creates a three-dimensional map of everybody every living thing and everything on the planet."

    First time I had ever heard that one.
  14. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    It's a fringe belief for sure, but probably was held by a higher percentage of chemtrail believers in the early days. Many of the early adopters came from the worlds of Morgellons and gang stalking - both of which are very difficult topics to address due to the psychological components.

    If you are interested, then:

    However, that way goes to subject where debunking efforts generally backfire.
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  15. trevor

    trevor Active Member

    Anyone notice how the "Yes, they are being sprayed deliberately" statistic went up, around the same time as the 9/11 conspiracies came out? Gee, i notice a trend here.
  16. MikeG

    MikeG Senior Member

    I checked the link and I think that you are giving me very good advice.

  17. vooke

    vooke Active Member

    An explanation for why they started noticing them could be because as the theory popularized, they became cautious of something they had previously overlooked, and nobody is going to recall something trivial. This is regardless of whether the theory is true or not.

    If there is an alert for an active serial killer in the prowl wearing a unique brown jacket today, you may not recall all the past brown jacket guys you ran into but you sure would sooner call the cops on somebody
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016
  18. Joe

    Joe Senior Member

    Even you admitted the newer engines and higher altitudes and more flights adds to more contrails Mick . More contrails mean more people notice them .
  19. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    The older people that I know seem to confuse not ever having noticed them when they were younger, with they never happened when they were younger.
  20. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Of course, and if it were the same graph for believers and non-believers then it might indicate that the increase in contrails was the thing that was responsible for the chemtrail belief. But there's no real change for non-believers.

    The chemtrail belief growth does not really correlate with the increase in air traffic, which has been growing steadily since the 1970s.

    And if you think about it, even a large increase in contrails would not necessarily change when you first remember noticing them, even if you only saw a few a year. It's like asking "When did you first notice a man with a beard". Just because beards are more popular now does not mean there were zero beards in the past. You would still see them. But you'd only form a memory of it if there was something specific to remember.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. Astro

    Astro Active Member

    Fascinating survey Mick, excellent work. How did you conduct the survey? I'm interested because I think a very similar psychology is behind the belief that the moon's apparent orientation has tilted strangely. These people believe that either the moon or earth have tilted significantly at some recent point in time, causing the moon to look "sideways" and "illuminated from the bottom rather than the side" at certain times of the year. I haven't noticed as much talk about this issue in the last couple of years, but occasionally a new video will still pop up on youtube about it. For example:

    The above is another classic example where someone uses a moon phase calendar or chart which depicts the moon in a vertical orientation at all times. Such phase charts are not intended to show the apparent orientation relative to the horizon.

    I believe that if a survey were conducted you would see the same thing; the people who believe this is abnormal only recently noticed the moon's apparent orientation can appear "tilted" relative to the horizon. I wonder though whether the average non-believer has a good understanding of why this is normal, and I would very much like to see a chart of when the average non-believer first noticed this phenomenon.
  22. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I used Google Documents, I created a form, which automatically puts the results in a spreadsheet. I then promoted this on Contrail Science, with a link in the sidebar. Left it going for four years, but mostly due to laziness. There are sites for creating surveys now, which might make it easier to collate results. Like https://www.surveymonkey.com/

    I suspect most people have not even noticed this in any way. Most people pay no attention to the moon.
    • Like Like x 1
  23. Astro

    Astro Active Member

    That was my immediate thought as well. For fun I put up a very non-scientific poll on the GLP conspiracy forum to get a quick feel for the distribution in a population that is very heavily slanted towards conspiracy belief. An interesting pattern starts to emerge from the data immediately which is similar to what you found with your contrail survey:

    Due to the limitations of GLP's polling system I had to restrict my poll to 12 possible choices so I broke it down by decade with the earliest decade being "1960's or before." People who believe that the moon's tilt due to field rotation is abnormal slant very heavily to noticing the moon in the last two decades. Conversely, people who believe that field rotation of the moon is normal (although they are a much smaller population) slant heavily in the opposite direction; they identify as first noticing it at least as early as the 1960's and 70's.

    The relative size of the two populations is not intended to be representative of the general population of course, but the patterns within the populations tell the story. It certainly supports the notion that people within the population who believe it is behaving abnormally only started paying attention to the moon when they were told that it was "doing something unusual" in the sky. Perhaps somewhat ironically, the example image I used for the poll is a crop of NASA photo 108-KSC-71P-74, taken in Florida in early 1971.
    • Like Like x 3
  24. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    Went through this one with the "Planet X" people. If you tell them that lunar phase charts are not intended to show the orientation of the moon in the sky, which changes constantly due to observing it from a rotating Earth, they call you a "shill".
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  25. Chris Clayton

    Chris Clayton New Member

    That's funny! So we are just supposed to believe what ever you show us, huh? All those graphs and stuff do not debunk anything my friend. As for people not noticing trails earlier?
    It was not until the internet and Youtube came along and really boomed (which was about the same time the trails got crazy) that we started talking about it on the internet. Before that, we were not noticed when we discussed it.
    I would say probably somewhere around the yr. 2000!
    So like i said your charts showing more people questioning it in the 2000's compared to the 90's is clearly explainable and understandable!
    Actually They didn't spray enough to grab my attention where i live until around 2009. But then again before that I was working inside all day everyday, so i just didn't have the time to notice. But i sure notice them now! That is i did before the middle of 2014. Since then they have almost stopped where i live! So before they stopped here, i guess all the passenger planes flew right over my house. Then i guess they just changed their routes over the last couple of years, because the climate has stayed the same in the last 2 yrs here as it was the 2 years prior to that!
    So you people that swear all this is normal condensation, i guess would just say the conditions have just not been right all of a sudden down here over the last 2 years, huh?----- Really?
    Boy i bet you have a really wild story to try to explain away the mysterious white webs people in some areas have been spotting, huh?
    • Funny Funny x 1
  26. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Just spiders.
  27. MikeG

    MikeG Senior Member

    It's interesting that your experience tends to support Mick's original assertion.

    How would you explain the decline of sightings after the middle of 2014 besides the idea that "they" stopped spraying?
  28. Rico

    Rico Active Member

    Well yes, in a way.

    There is no denying that the internet and YouTube has made "talking about it" easier. But if anything, I suspect that the internet and YouTube simply made it easier for the belief to spread. Quite frankly, you can post anything on the internet, and people can learn anything (whether right or wrong) from the internet as well.

    To be frank, I have never heard about chemtrails until I came upon Michael J Murphy's thing on youtube... and I've been working in the aviation industry for quite a bit of time before that! I have never heard of anyone ever discussing chemtrails before the internet. Even you have admitted that it never grabbed your attention until 2009.

    So did it grab your attention because someone on the internet told you it was chemtrails, or did you honestly notice that before your exposure to the internet?
  29. JFDee

    JFDee Senior Member

    That is indeed a possibility. Did you ever try to track those planes?

    I recommend having a look on your area with Flightradar24. It's interesting - and also fun!
  30. Landru

    Landru Moderator Staff Member

    Joshpeck247's posts and replies moved to Rambles.
    • Like Like x 1
  31. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    I'll eat my words if proven wrong, but can say with 100% confidence that reports of "massive spraying" were being reported for many years over your area before 2009, Chris. If you'd like I can show them to you. Just mention your general area and I will.
  32. NoParty

    NoParty Senior Member

    Help me with the timing: How did the huge YouTube boom help so much in 2000, when YouTube did not exist yet?
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  33. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    Which came first, the chicken or the egg?