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  1. KAT

    KAT Active Member

    Good way to avoid the issue of how much sense does that "stolen phones answered" story make? was a mourning relative even identified by name? nope, they were making up wholesale.

    Here's some evidence you asked for about "media screaming about bodies being left to rot" etc Let me know if you want more.........

    http://nypost.com/2014/07/21/mh17-recovery-efforts-in-shambles-as-bodies-pile-up/
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ictims-robbed-of-their-dignity-by-rebels.html
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...lack-bags-and-loaded-onto-trains-9617172.html
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/19/mh17-armed-rebels-chaos-corpses-ukraine
    http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...sian-separatists/story-fnizu68q-1226994383389
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ed-around-and-robbed/articleshow/38751679.cms
    http://www.standartnews.com/english/read/mh17_victims_robbed_of_their_dignity_-4440.html
    http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2014/07/21/rebels-move-bodies-from-mh17-site.html
    http://www.enca.com/rebels-remove-bodies-have-material-resembling-mh17-black-boxes
    http://mrapolitical.blogspot.com.au/2014/07/mh-17-disaster-too-many-bodies-are.html
    http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-07-23/at-mh17-crash-site-more-evidence-of-tampering
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...h-site-evidence-tampering-on-industrial-scale
    http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/uk...ampered-industrial-scale-australia-pm-n161801
    http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/08/05/MH17-Russia-tampering/
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ampering-evidence-bodies-MH17-crash-site.html


    That last one is interesting.


    news.com au is a News Ltd site which includes The Australian which is currently rabidly pro USA and pro Israel and anti anything else Middle East, and The Telegraph which always was a sensationalist tabloid, albeit a morning paper. I've worked at both, long long ago, and seen how news is "made". The linked "stolen telephones" story is what they call a "beat-up" (as in eggwhites, making something big out of mostly air).
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
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  2. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    got any evidence for that?

    Well done on managing to provide evidence that bodies weer picked up AND ALSO left to rot after that had happened.

    I see nothing at al in that about

    I see demands that bodies be treated with respect, that PROPER recovery of bodies takes place, that access be given to PROPER investigators, etc.

    I am interested that you find the last one "interesting" - having just slagged me for daring to use "gossip rags" you are yourself putting forth the Daily Mail as a serious source of evidence??

    Oh the irony.....:D

    But since you like it let's see what it actually says:
    and

    not sure what it is you think is useful to your gish gallop in there - as far as I can see it says exactly what I've been saying - rebel "recovery" of bodies was slipshod, disrespectful, and an interference in the investigative process.

    How about evidence in regard to the status of miners, or why it is that news.com.au and De Telegraff are "gossip rags", or that nobody "had a force ready to go", or that the rebels got blamed for moving stuff that was actually done by "(government) emergency services", or any of the other claims you have made??
     
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  3. Nehmo

    Nehmo New Member

    I'm an American born 60 years ago who has lived in the Netherlands, and with that perspective, I feel I need to clear up some misconceptions.
    It was worse when I was young, but still, since early school years, American kids get indoctrinated to constant "We are the best" in everything. (We also get told we are the land of the free too, but that's another subject.) But we are not. We have the most capable military, sure. We spend [​IMG] multiple times what anybody else spends. We also are tops in a number of technical fields, software, most notably for me. But we don't have the highest standard of living, and, on the negative, we have perhaps the highest incarceration rate (maybe N Korea DPRK beats us there).
    There are small countries that compete very well with the US in many areas. I'm referring to the Netherlands.
    BTW, the Dutch feel they started the US (historically New York was New Amsterdam).
    The Dutch are smart. They have much more freedom from government repression than people of the US. They are advanced technologically. In hydraulic expertise, wind turbine design, rail transportation, they are at the top.
    Also, they are politically on the fence when it comes to old cold war lines. Sure, they are part of NATO and the EU, but the people often express anti-American-governemnt attitudes. When I'm over there, I find myself having to defend my country more than not. Back here, I'm anti-establishment, let's say.
    When I heard the Dutch would play a major role in the Mh17 investigation, I definitely was pleased.
     
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  4. KAT

    KAT Active Member

    I am not going to provide a day by day blow by blow recap of everything that happened or was said (in Ukraine, in the media, anywhere) since July 17, to someone who clearly was in a cave somewhere since then. If you were interested, you'd have kept track of it as it was happening. Now you should wait, maybe, until some paper puts out a "true story of MH17i" feature clipped together from quotes of older editions.

    If you don't want to wait, you can learn to google.
    So you quote a story based on statement by John Kerry as proof of what you're saying? just proves what i said about taking your ideas frm the media.

    Sadly, without any apparent attempt at critical thinking or judgement.

    Your demands for "evidence" for ever second word I say is a hostile game which you are welcome to play on your own. I'm done with you.
     
  5. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    I quoted your source as EVIDENCE.

    I do not ask for evidence for "every second word you say" - I ask for evidence of claims you make - just like you did of me.

    For example you claim that stories of cell phones being answered by someone being "[made] up wholesale" - that is a claim you make - so how about supporting it with some evidence??
     
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  6. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    It gets it's own entry in wiki! :)


     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
  7. Jason

    Jason Senior Member

    OT
    How are US citizens a victim of government "repression"? Plenty of countries "started" America. That's the beauty of America.
    I had no idea that the Dutch spew Anti-American nonsense, or have a negative view about America. You'd think after the way WWII turned out they would've had a more positive view of the US. I'm somewhat dissappointed that the Dutch feel this way about the US, but it is what it is, and I guess I will just have to take your word since I don't plan on going their any time in the near future.
    Its funny, when you do a google search for the best countries to live in the US comes up as #6 along with the Netherlands, Amersterdam, Sweden, Canada and AU and England. http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/rich-countries/the-10-best-countries-to-live-in-2014/8/. I will add that the US has to cater to over 314 million residents that we know of and that number could be higher by as much as 10 or 15 million with illegal residents seeking employment, but the Netherlands only has to deal with about 16 million or 17 million. So sure the rate of incarceration is much higher in the US, and we house about 25% of the worlds criminals even though we only make up about 5% of the worlds population. But that could also be a testament of our judicial system. You see we put people in jail if they smack their wife or get caught with a dime bag of weed.
    [​IMG]
    Our laws are stricter and our sentencing is much longer than other countries in the EU.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate
     
  8. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    Well, I'm an American who was born 57 years ago and has visited the Netherlands (and many other parts of the World) and, though verging OT...I think that nationalism is a crock of shiite.
     
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  9. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

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