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  1. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2014
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  2. TWCobra

    TWCobra Senior Member

    The problem with debating Max would be his abysmal grasp of science. His understanding of relative humidity is a case in point. A"dry" aircraft cabin at 23C can be supersaturated as soon as it leaves the aircraft and drops to -40C.

    As far as Monsanto supplying aircraft fuel laced with aluminium to B-17's.. where do I start?

    Perhaps asking him to showing photos or videos of B-17's on takeoff emitting white smoke, with their crews trying to machine gun their senior officers for making them visible to enemy fighters for hundreds of kilometres might be reasonable proof, but I doubt he has that.
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  3. Jazzy

    Jazzy Closed Account

    It wouldn't get half as far as that.

    Light metal organic liquids spontaneously and explosively* decompose when mixed with ordinary aviation gasoline, because it contains WATER dissolved in it. (A small amount of water will boost engine performance by allowing it to work at higher pressures without a matching increase in temperatures.) This means that for each raid, 20,000 tons of AVGAS would have had to have been chemically dried immediately before use. There's no evidence for that.

    Even if this had been made to happen, aluminum oxide is a REFRACTORY material, normally used for furnace linings, because of its incredibly high melting point. When cold it is an extremely abrasive grit.

    So those bombers' engines would have run themselves in by the time they had finished taxying, and run themselves out by the time they had finished take-off.

    Ridiculous. /rant.

    * Atoms of the liberated mono-atomic light metal element will combine with oxygen atoms from water molecules, liberating HEAT, HYDROGEN GAS and/or other light organic inflammable gases. Seems more dangerous to me, especially when coupled with fuel and bombs.:(
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2014
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  4. mrfintoil

    mrfintoil Active Member

    Max attempting to be be dramatic again, as well as trying to construct a coherent picture. He brings us some new info as well.

    • There is a new type of "chemtrail", one that does not persist like "old chemtrails" used to do. This is a new strategy from the NWO since people have, according to Max, begun to "wake up" in too large numbers. Max assumes this since he claims to no longer find persistent trails in the skies like he used to do, and this change has taken place over a short year or so.
    • Max mentions "hygroscopic smoke", probably some new word he like to use to sound sciency.
    • Be points to the usual "HAARP patterns" in the cloud, although he does not mention HAARP specifically in this clip.
    • Max also mention zinc cadmium sulphate as a component, referring to "Operation LAC" in the 1950s. He claims that it's very toxic, although there is no evidence that the doses people were exposed to in that experiment is anywhere near harmful.
    • Apparently "chemtrails" is a governmental continuation of the "nazi experimentation" done by the nazis during the second world war.
    • Vaccines are bad.
    • And here is an interesting one - Max claims that many rainwater tests show contamination levels MANY TIMES the limits set by governmental scientists themselves. Problem here is that if what Max claim is true, why did the scientists set the levels to be so low from the start so that people would eventually find out that something was wrong? Perhaps the evil master genius that is government isn't smart in every single aspect...
    • And "chemtrails" is now part of Agenda 21, for depopulation. Nothing new here, but seems like Max is dropping the notion that "chemtrails" is a failed geoengineering experiment, or he simply doesn't feel like formulating a coherent purpose for these trails. For example, he brings up that men carry 33% less sperm count since the "chemtrail program" started.
    • And with "chemtrails" the government/elite/NWO want to create "GMO babies", probably the transhumanism-argument I've heard being passed around in the community. Create some kind of human master race or something. Max specifically mention "they" use "nanotechnology" in "chemtrails" to "alter the evolution".
    • Max does the usual projecting by accusing "them" for being insane. He also says they are "very few" doing "chemtrails", which is funny when he mentions all the enormous organisations he thinks is involved in this.
    • And as a last ironic punctuation he says "we still have the capacity of critical thinking" in the battle against "them".
    I really cannot get a clear picture in my head what Max is actually trying to say, which is sort of expected, but it seems like everything is happening at once according to Max. Even things that contradict each other. It seems like he is desperately trying to keep all the irregular pieces from falling apart, sort of like Wigington's style of arguing is a one way train wreck destined to break eventually.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2014
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  5. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    This is what Russ Tanner has started to say, I think- that even non-persistent trails are now "chemtrails". And... the theory continues to morph and adapt to "explain" what is seen.
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  6. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    Yes, Max is taking a cue from Russ. Next he will say that every trail is a chemtrails, there are very few real contrails. Probably will eventually move on to invisible trails.

    Max has also been trumpeting something about the movement about to reach critical mass at any moment, if I recall his terminology correctly. This has been going for probably a year.
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  7. Strawman

    Strawman Active Member

    Some already have.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    When a program covers everything you think could possibly go wrong from lower fertility rates to zombifying the entire human race is there anything you cannot imagine ???
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. mrfintoil

    mrfintoil Active Member

    I think it's those small suggestive bits and pieces of information that reaches the believing community from time to time.
    Like some time ago Max Bliss pronounced that "yet another mainstream newspaper" was doing an article on "chemtrails.
    The newspaper was a Spanish one called "Discovery DSalud"

    I think it escapes Bliss that this is basically a trash tabloid that pushes all kinds of weird stuff and bad science, probably just for profit.
    But the belief it is "mainstream" adds to the feeling of everyone "waking up" I guess.
  10. Svartbjørn

    Svartbjørn Senior Member

    My only question here Gary is why would the Govt be out to poison us? I can understand doing it to your enemies (as Ive stated in another post) but it makes no sense to do it to your own populace. As Ive said before, the whole point of this chemtrail stuff (and the vast majority of geo-buzzwordofthemonth) is supposed to be to make those in power more powerful, and to make the rich richer.. but its counter productive to poison and kill the very people that provide you with the power and money you're seeking. Dont get me wrong, Govts arent benevolent creatures.. you can look at hte last 100 years or so in Ireland and see that.. but deliberately poisoning your people by any means at all isnt logical in the long term what so ever.
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  11. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

    Max, as usual, is simply clutching at straws. You can see where he got the idea from of WW2 aircraft fuel laced with Aluminum and linking them to Contrails.


    The quote is from Page 71,


    The reality but of course Max doesn't have a clue!

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  12. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    You would think that he would have understood the word "cast"? Or does he understand but hope that others don't?
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  13. cloudspotter

    cloudspotter Senior Member

    Resin, hardens and rubbery might be clues too
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  14. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    I was going to ask him to explain further, as I do not understand what all this talk of resin and moulding are referring to, but it appears after our last go round on Worldwide Truth Network page Max has blocked me.
  15. GregMc

    GregMc Senior Member

    Face Palm, on Max's facebook page he refers to the North American Valkyrie accident
    and claims that the formation of planes fly OVER the contrail and thus it must be a 'chemtrail'. A more careful consideration of the laws of perspective would help avert such misinterpretations. He writes: " Friends....take a trip back to 1966..examine the evidence, see the difference between normal flight and testing a CHEMTRAIL in a USAF test area. Tragedy strikes as a plane in formation clips another and sends the plane down. However before when the formation is going well 5 different planes at 30,000ft with no CONTRAILS fly over a test is clear that atmospheric physics demonstrate the strong likelyhood of the visible trail being a CHEMTRAIL.... NASA documentation of testing in 1958, USAF documentation for 1965 (200 page report on development of TMA trimethylaluminum for hygroscopic smoke generation) also documentation for tests using aluminum additives in 1944 leaving white smoke....!!!

    By the same basis should we be expected to assume Chuck Yeager and the later X15 crews were really testing 'chemtrails' since long trails appear in abundance in the following videos including behind piston engined aircraft?

    The fuel systems of such vehicles are very well documented.
    The X15 incidentally produced large amounts of water as exhaust, with no carbon in its fuel, using only NH3 and liquid oxygen.
    The X1 that also produced a massive contrail used Ethanol (moonshine) and Liquid oxygen

    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
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  16. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

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  17. TWCobra

    TWCobra Senior Member

    The formation is clearly below the contrail. This video should be added to the Pre-1995 archive and Max thanked for finding it.
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  18. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  19. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Indeed! Far below.

  20. cloudspotter

    cloudspotter Senior Member

    Did he really mean that contrail? FFS I noticed some in the distance in one shot which I hoped he might mean
  21. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

    Max finally has proof! He has caught a sprayer at low level and he now has resources to back up his claims that many of the trails in the sky are not contrails.

    It's all over in the first two minutes or so for those not wanting to sit through the rest of his video.

    Yet again notice that he is not using any Flight Tracking app which we know he has access to. Also notice that he is using footage outside the playback facility time of the likes of Flight Radar 24.

    Footage from 21st December 2013

  22. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    "TEEJ", is this some sort of joke or spoof?

    Because, I see normal condensation patterns in the wake of that airliner. And, as you point out...we don't have a solid resource to ascertain that airplane's altitude. Based on his accent, then I can presume this was filmed in Australia? (perhaps New Zealand? My American ears sometimes cannot tell the difference).

    EDIT to add: Seems I stumbled into a thread that specifically is in reference to this man by the name of "Max Bliss". A person I was unfamiliar with, in the torrent of "chem"trail claimants. So, I'll take time to review and get up-to-speed.
  23. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Max is in France.
  24. TWCobra

    TWCobra Senior Member

    He is British living in southern France. He lives under the main air routes between the UK and Spain, hence he sees a lot of the Low Cost carriers (LCC's) such as Ryan Air and Easy Jet and has formed the opinion that LCC's are the main sprayers and are doing so to earn extra income. He is probably filming this Ryanair aircraft flying from Valencia to Heathrow as we speak.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 14, 2014
  25. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    Ah. Interesting news. Again, just checking through this thread, seems a lot of what I would have offered from my experience has been covered. Difficult to comb through when there is so much misinformation ... or intentionally DIS-info out there. Coming from people like "Max Bliss". of course is what I mean when mentioning DIS-info.

    Is there any of his (Max Bliss') assertions not yet addressed? I'd be happy to assist...with a life's experience in aviation (40+ years), including the last 24 at a major U.S. based airline, and about ~20,000 hours total time. I'm very willing to help.
  26. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    Ah, again thanks "TW"! I was way off on the accent, then? Embarrassed.

    I see his lack of cognizance in that "belief". And, that claim of his is dead easy to disprove.
  27. Ross Marsden

    Ross Marsden Senior Member

    Yes, to my ears (New Zealand) he has little or no accent. MikeC, what do your ears tell you?
  28. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I think the sticking point with Max is going to be the inaccurate radiosonde data he's using. He's very unlikely to accept that the humidity is actually high enough if he can find a sonde reading that says it is not.

    It's kind of like an advance stage of evolution for the more adept chemtrail theorist. They accept you can get persistent contrails, but claim that the conditions don't exist, and point to the readings.
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  29. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    Well, if he's advanced enough to at least use radiosonde data...he's part-way there. Problem is, there are (in the UK) a limited number of radiosonde balloon release locations, which of course drift on any prevailing winds aloft.

    I fear that the cognitive disconnect here (in "chem"trail believers' minds) is that they presume a (an) homogeneous nature of the atmosphere, and cannot wrap their pre-conceived concepts around the fact that the atmosphere is not perfectly static, and unchanging. Even in the course of a few thousand feet, vertically and horizontally.
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  30. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

    Max is still continuing with his video uploads. He quite clearly believes that 2014 is the year that chemtrails and geo-engineering will be exposed.

    Filmed on the 12th February 2014 so the data is still available on Flight Radar 24 Playback. He has the incorrect year in the video description 12 Feb 2013.

    The video clearly highlights that he, nor his followers, are actually checking the data presented in the video. Here he is using Flight Radar apps to identify airliners but clearly not checking the actual altitude.

    Metabunk and Contrail Science also get a mention along with his declaration that 2014 is the year of disclosure!

    It is quite clear that he doesn't even check the altitude on Flight Radar.


    The reality on Flight Radar 24


    The airliner following AFR456 - 6,000 feet difference.



    The reality on Flight Radar 24


    The airliner following AFR444


    The reality on Flight Radar 24 - 4,000 feet difference


    Flight Radar 24 Playback links.,0.35/11,0.52/10
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  31. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The most efficient way of debunking him would simply be to wait for 2015 :)

    Ask him to put some money on it.
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  32. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

    No money according to the following on Facebook! His life is on hold until this is exposed.


    Remember when the time is right he will take on all his debunkers!

  33. Balance

    Balance Senior Member


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  34. TWCobra

    TWCobra Senior Member

    Nor can you make him honest.

    This post^ in his "The REAL Institute" page purports to show aluminium contamination found in aircraft cabins. Note that CAA investigation reference, implying that is where this page came from. He neglects to mention that the CAA study was specifically for contaminants from pyrolyzed oils and fluids. e.g TCP.

    Max Fraud 2.JPG

    Max has deliberately cropped the reference to delete the fact that the subject contamination is Tri-Cresyl Phosphate, TCP, the known nerve agent by-product of burnt engine oil which is the cause of AeroToxic syndrome. Max is so desperate to ignore the voluminous science on the subject in order to blame his mythical contrails, he resorts to this rather pathetic and easily debunked sort of post.

    Here is the real page from Reviews of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology 214^.

    Max Bliss Fraud.JPG

    I am happy to be one of the debunkers you take on when the time comes Max, particularly on this subject which continually comes up in the OHS meetings I chair for my company.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
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  35. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    Are you sure you will have the time especially given your forthcoming court case against Ian Simpson? ;-)

    Anyway Max leaves anything on his page without checking facts which unfortunately his acolytes will blindly accept.

    Cornell van Loon posts a great deal almost to the point of spamming. I quite enjoyed this one

    The claim is that Evergreens PR is run by WPP and Philip Lader. The post is just a cut and paste from here but Max still accepts it and likes it.

    Mr Lader does not seem to have done a very good job Max as Evergreen have been doing their own PR (ignoring everyone) right up to the point of filing for bankruptcy on Jan 1st.
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  36. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    He says he has "people working to correlate and demonstrate that many of the trails we see in the sky cannot be condensation trails." OK.. where is that effort being cataloged?
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  37. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    I'd love to find his first reference to the smoking gun, cause I could swear he earlier said it would be sometime at the end of 2013.
  38. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    This claim of any "specific" date is just too reminiscent of the often dis-proven "prophecies" that are part and parcel of the modern Internet. Well, even before the advent of the Internet, this sort of "bamboozlement" has been around since clever people realized that it's possible to fool the gullible people, and get away with it. Getting away with, usually, their property or wealth.
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  39. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

    I reckon that Max will go down the following route in regards to Flight Radar 24 data. No doubt coming to a Max Bliss video sometime soon due to his poor aircraft recognition skills?
    We know that he has a nice new camera thanks to a donator that has a good zoom capability. Tens of thousands of aviation enthusiasts and yet even they can't catch these military aircraft
    painted up as commercial airliners! :)

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  40. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Good on Max for actually asking for evidence there.

    Max, if you read this, I'd really encourage you to look into just how far away a contrail can be. Just simple geometry:


    A lot of people can't find contrails on FR24 because they assume that any contrail they see is within ten miles of them. In reality 90% of visible contrails are over 10 miles away, and often as much as 50-100 miles when they seem close to the horizon.
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