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  1. mrfintoil

    mrfintoil Active Member

    Anyone know if Max have published these "chemicals" he is referring to anywhere?
     
  2. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    The NHS are tendering out services, tantamount to privatisation, and Virgin have taken over some. It is not a popular move.
     
  3. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Max has stated before that he would like to "get my hands on a pilot", and that ohers should be "prodding pilots in the chest".
    Yes, he is unstable.

    I saw that a French chemtrail believer (saidto be a scientist) found some webs he thought were unusual and analyzed them for organic compounds.

    It really wasn't science though. I'll explain.

    A sample of an unknown is simply that, something unknown. Yes, you can break it down to its constituent compounds and elements and learn something.
    But not until you analyze an unknown substance found in an open environment by comparing it to known substances would you establish any conclusions as to it's origin or abnormality.

    Think about it. You find something which looks similar to spider webs. Why not find a local example of an actual spider web with the spider in residence, then along with your unknown, do your lab work on the known sample then compare the two?

    Doesn't this make sense? Why hasn't it been done?

    I can only assume that:
    1. the folks involved made their conclusion beforehand
    2. They don't care.
    3. They don't have the capacity for logical thought or critical thinking.

    Any of the above means they won't get to the truth, and some could be evidence of intention to deceive.
     
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  4. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

    Obviously yet another fabrication by Max. He makes it up as he goes along. Blatant lying is part of his spin game. He claimed after filming outside the UK Met Office that he talked to Staff who admitted knowing about the chemtrail operations. You can see him using that little fib again on the Air France chemtrail video description.

     
  5. mrfintoil

    mrfintoil Active Member

    max.PNG
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXaxMRyRIlU&feature=share&t=1h14m46s



    Looks like Bliss got answers from Julian Savulescu about the blog post from 2010 about "we're already doing geoengineering". And of course what Savulescu actually meant is all those other things that goes under the umbrella term "geoengineering". But it looks like Bliss didn't pay much attention to this clarification.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2013
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  6. cloudspotter

    cloudspotter Senior Member

    I'm glad that DK jumped in to clarify what JS was saying though. It's there now for anyone to see that Max was clearly told what was meant.

    Have to say that Keith looked disappointed when he asked for a show of hands. Understandably though since I'm sure he would much rather be talking to a room full of well informed people interested in having a serious debate about the subject.
     
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  7. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    At least we got an opportunity to hear how irrational the UK chemtrail crowd with the swearing Welshman. David Keith was quite right to say that people like Max and David Lim must take responsibility of their actions, and I would go so far as to be held accountable for the actions of others.
     
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  8. mrfintoil

    mrfintoil Active Member



    Max says it's funny that there are no pictures showing persistent contrails over European airports from the past. I believe he posed this challenge directly to Metabunk some while ago, and I believe Mick responded almost immediately with a photo of Paris from the 70s or 80s.

    I think people even asked Max to respond to this image, but he didn't (of course), and now he is repeating the same notion in this interview, that there were no persistent contrails back in the days.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
  9. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  10. TWCobra

    TWCobra Senior Member

    Max is allowing someone aptly named Cornell van Loon to post on his page. This is one of the emerging problems with some of these so called "leaders". The fear of deleting arrant nonsense in order to not offend fellow believers.

    The following is clearly a hoax, and due to no-one yet liking it on FB, it seems not many others are fooled.

    Max, you need to block this crap. Please don't tell me you actually believe it?

    image.
     
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  11. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    Conspiracy people will keep repeating disproven stuff simply because it's convenient for them to do so. That's just how it works. Their whole house of cards would quickly fall if not for that.

    PS: That they continue to claim it's military planes doing the "spraying" is exasperating. How do they continue to avoid the obvious?
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2013
  12. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    It's dated 1 April....;)
     
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  13. TWCobra

    TWCobra Senior Member

    Didn't see that... Obviously neither did Mr van loon or Max.
     
  14. mrfintoil

    mrfintoil Active Member



    Bliss is becoming more and more theatrical.
    And he apparently cares much about the aluminium-stuffed whales.

    But I wonder what study he is talking about? Is it the one mentioned here which is almost four years old, and where the actual study was carried out over a five year period?
    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/37902642
    Why is Max saying that whales are "now" swiming around like this? Not that he is wrong, they seem to be fairly loaded with heavy metals, but he seem to focus so much on aluminium, and I wonder what geoengineering proposal involves chromium as well? From what I can find there is no such proposal. If you search "chromium chemtrails" or "chromium geoengineering" you find the usual claims of "chemtrail content", which is basically just the most common chemical elements listed.

    It seems Max is referencing David Keith's latest appearance on the Colbert Report, as well as trying to figure out why pilots themselves deliberately and continuously spray the stuff they do - it must be because they don't want to loose their jobs.

    50% of the worlds bee population is gone due to HAARP and other EMF technology says Max.
    And he also says BBC reported increase in Alzheimer's which of course must be due to all the "chemtrail" aluminium.

    But Max says we should not listen to him, we should do our own research. But I think he means "Google Chemtrails!".

    And he is also mentioning some kind of "chemtrail experiment" from 1986 which according to Max generated "the coldest winter for decades" as well as "hurricanes along the British coast". Haven't heard that one before though, maybe someone knows more about that claim.

    Funny thing though that Bliss is essentially saying that pilots knows what they are doing, but that aerotoxic syndrome is actually "chemtrails" entering the planes. Funny thing that the pilots are poisoning themselves. Then again, didn't expect Max to make sense this time either.
     
  15. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Max needs to read more about aluminum in seawater. The source of aluminum is clay. The concentration varies from less in deep water open ocean towards higher near the coast where clay enters the sea. That whales have aluminum in their bodies isn't unusual since they exist their entire lives in a solution of about 1.3–7.5 µg Al per Liter.
    This is from 1977, when he was a much younger man:

    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v268/n5616/abs/268136a0.html

    The Norway stuff sounds like Renzo Celani bunk......
     
  16. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

  17. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

  18. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

  19. cloudspotter

    cloudspotter Senior Member

    I can't see it either. Must be in one of the many groups that I'm blocked from
     
  20. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

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  21. mrfintoil

    mrfintoil Active Member

    Ugh, he is actually repeating the same set of arguments in that thread as he presented in his latest video. First time I've seen him actually trying to interact with debunkers.

    Very scitific-ish comments in that thread:

    Yeah, not that aluminium is a chemical element in the periodic table or anything...

    I see most of these believes always end with playing the guilt card when there is no counter argument.

    "You won't be so happy when the NWO drags you out on the streets for extermination."
    "These paid shills care nothing about their grandchildren."
    "Trolls, government agents...just work out if you do support GENOCIDE"


    Love this comment from Max though.

    maxrysgrdf.JPG

    As if he is just "asking questions" without consequences.

    These are quotes from his latest video:

    Max is encouraging people to get angry at pilots because he claims that pilots find their jobs more valuable than the life of the planet. He also wants you to get raving mad about the politicians that "lies to you". Max is basically undermining the political system and the trust of the whole aviation industry.

    No harm? Really?
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2013
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  22. mrfintoil

    mrfintoil Active Member



    Max's reply.

    Max have fully embraced the Zionist conspiracy path it seems. Fully bonkers. All he does is barking at trees in these videos.
     
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  23. Ross Marsden

    Ross Marsden Senior Member

    Dear Max,
    They are not water vapor.
    I doubt any debunker has claimed that.
    Water vapor is an invisible gas.
    They are condensation trails.
    Cheers
    Ross
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. TWCobra

    TWCobra Senior Member

    Max wishes to have a dialogue with Metabunk, specifically Mick or Jay.

    If you can't reply directly, I can pass a reply on.

    https://www.facebook.com/mrmaxbliss/posts/10152120586780396
    image.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2013
  25. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I'm pretty sure everyone here holds the same position as David Keith - that covert geoengineering would be illegal and wrong, and should be stopped.

    But it's a mistake to say this is something new or surprising. David Keith said exactly the same thing about three years ago, at a meeting with We Are Change Calgary.
    https://www.metabunk.org/threads/we...ts-david-keith-chemtrail-geo-engineering.163/



    Particularly at 25:10, where he says he would "risk his life" to stop it, if there was any evidence of it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  26. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    Rather interesting . . . Me thinks the dialogue would become a Mexican Stand Off at best . . . Max insisting there is evidence of Chemtrails and Mick/Jay insisting there is not . . . I would do the encounter but would not expect much of a revelation or transformation experience for either side . . . he hopes that Metabunk will agree chemtrails ( if they existed ) are potentially bad . . . Max will somehow hope this imaginary concession from Metabunk will somehow validate his position and blunt the debunking efforts aligned against him . . . to him a win/win outcome . . .
     
  27. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    It's always "if" "would" "if" "will".....

    Yes Max if proof were miraculously pulled out, I would object to being "sprayed like a bug", "slow killed", "inhaling nano aluminum particles to turn us into HAARP antennas".
     
  28. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    TWCObra, please send his to Max if you can. He has me blocked.
    =====================================

    So, Max, after blocking and deleting me from your Facebook, Youtube, and Wordpress now you want to parley?

    Sure, I am ready and have been waiting for a long time. It is not me who has been unwilling. First, you need to understand who I am and where I am coming from. To do that, you need to listen to something, and read a little. First, listen to this two hour interview made 14 years ago, March 23, 1999 with Bill Cooper. This was eons long before you had probably ever looked up into the sky and noticed the contrails you call chemtrails. There are two mp3 files for you here:
    https://www.metabunk.org/threads/bill-cooper-debunks-chemtrails-vintage-audio.2480/#post-71243

    Next, read the first article I ever wrote about the subject, also from March, 1999:
    http://goodsky.homestead.com/files/linesinsky.html

    Pay close attention to the preface and conclusion:

    Max, you need to understand that in 1996 Bill Cooper asked me to volunteer to monitor news, talk, and yes even rumor because he expected a chemical or biological attack on the country. My examination of the chemtrails claims began under his request to collect and analyze information pertaining to that subject, and following his death I chose to continue for the reasons outlined in my conclusion above.

    You ask if I would act against some entity were they to inject harmful substances into the air as you believe is taking place?
    Well, Max, the evidence shows that my efforts to examine and analyze that sort of information existed long before you ever came on the scene, probably far longer than a decade before, I would suppose. I was far ahead of the curve, you lag far behind. As I said when trying to warn you earlier this year about the hoaxer, I may be the best friend you ever had because I am willing to tell you when you are wrong, the hard truth.

    So, let me summarize what part I see you play in this at the present moment. I regret that I have to inform you that you fall within the last two sentences of my conclusion from 14 years ago. Some of that is your own fault, and some blame for it lies with the company you keep. I truly don't know if it is possible to bridge that gap, but I am willing to try.

    If we do begin a communication, it would have to be one in which a limited subject matter is covered. Though I am capable of discussing any element of this subject, it would be best to thoroughly exhaust one item at a time. Which single element would you like to begin with?

    Here are some choices:
    Contrail Formation and Persistence

    What is a contrail? (define)
    How do contrails form?
    How do some contrails persist?
    Why do some contrails persist, and others do not?
    Have contrails always persisted?
    Why do some contrails persist in one part of the sky, but dissipate in another?
    When contrails persist or dissipate, how can they change?
    Are persistent contrails more frequent now, if so why?

    What false claims have been made about contrail formation and persistence?
    What are the reasons why these claims are false?

    Rain/snow testing

    What are aerosols? (define)
    Where do aerosols come from?
    How do aerosols get into the air?
    What effects do aerosols have in the air?
    How do aerosols get into rain/snow?
    What is known about rain/snow chemistry in the past compared to the present?


    What is being claimed to be found in rain/snow?
    What are the reasons why these claims are false?

    Contrail patterns

    What patterns can contrails form?
    What causes contrails to form these patterns?
    Have these patterns always existed?
    Are these patterns always the same from day to day?
    Why did I just notice these patterns?

    What is being claimed about contrail patterns?
    What are the reasons why these claims are false?


    Geoengineering/Weather Modification

    What is geoengineering? (define)
    What is weather modification? (define)
    How could aircraft be used to do geoengineering?
    How are aircraft used to do weather modification?
    Has geoengineering taken place?
    Has weather modification taken place?
    Is barium or strontium useful for geoengineering?

    What is being claimed about geoengineering and weather modification?
    What are the reasons why these claims are false?

    Patents

    What is a patent?
    Have chemtrail patents been filed?
    What are these patents actually saying?
    Why did someone file these patents?
    Does the existence of a patent mean the idea actually works?
    Have some patents been filed that never worked?
    Are barium or stronium mentioned in the geoengineering patent?

    What is being claimed about chemtrails patents?
    What are the reasons why these claims are false?


    Max, you can post here at Metabunk, or shoot at me with an e-mail thechief762 @ gmail.com
     
    • Like Like x 2
  29. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    I think this is just an attempt to drag the debate further to their side, as if there really *IS* a debate. All Max will do with any such promise from Keith or Metabunk is subsequently toss out more of his usual "evidence", then claim he has proven his position, then claim that Keith/Metabunk are proven liars because they have been shown the proof. Don't let Max dictate discussion parameters like that. He will spin it in his favor.
     
  30. JFDee

    JFDee Senior Member

    I suggest careful consideration of the proposal. My impression is that Max Bliss is - at least concerning style - more accessible and less prone to impoliteness than most chemtrail proponents of 'prominence'.

    In his imagination Metabunk seems to be something like the evil enemy's castle. Maybe the reality will be able to surprise him, just like David Keith did.

    I think it would be preferable to have a written dialogue, one on one - with an argument about facts, not about people.
     
  31. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    I think a debate is a great idea, but if Max wants his question answered first I think he should be willing to answer a reciprocal one and also say what evidence he would accept proving the chemtrail theory wrong.
     
  32. Ross Marsden

    Ross Marsden Senior Member

    Max seems to think that "geoengineering" and "chemtrails" are two quite different things.
    So, in any discussion with Max, this needs to be sorted out, at least in Max's mind.

    It is a bit of a surprise to me that he, or anyone in the "chemtrails mainstream", would identify those two things as being different. The current mainstream chemtrail narrative (as I understand it) is that the trails in the sky (the so-called chemtrails) are the visible evidence of an ongoing geoengineering program to artificially alter the planet's climate, or to influence weather on a local scale. Admittedly, it is impossible to find a concise statement such as this. This is a condensation (yay, a pun!) of the general ebb and flow of the conversation among rank and file chemtrail adherents. This general idea is propagated by the leaders of the movement, but seldom so concisely.
     
  33. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    I don't think any discussion can take place with someone who believes in chemtrails without them first explaining what they think the purpose of chemtrails is and what the mechanism for disbursal is. When the reasons are as disparate as spraying nano particles which burrow into our bodies in order to turn us into HAARP activited antennas or spraying flu germs, it would be very helpful to know which theory du jour they are debating.
     
  34. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    I have found many don't know specifically what the reasons for chemtrails are . . . they just believe it is being done without their approval and they see it in the skies often . . .
     
    • Like Like x 1
  35. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    Well if that's the case I wouldn't bother debating them!
     
  36. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    It is often an almost impossible task . . . however, I think it is productive to give them alternate explanations for persistent contrails and indicate they have been on the increase over the last couple of decades . . .
     
    • Like Like x 1
  37. occams rusty scissor

    occams rusty scissor Active Member

    ^--- This.

    Some CTs seem to just get so swept up in it that the "why" doesn't seem important enough to consider. In the end many of them seem too convinced to really need a "why". Clearly Bliss and his ilk are too invested to turn back now despite them falling flat without evidence of conspiracy. They want it to be true, much like any true believer.
     
  38. TWCobra

    TWCobra Senior Member

    I don't think Max wants a debate per se. My read is he wants Metabunk to join with him should undeniable evidence of geo engineering become apparent. While it is a given that most here would condemn such action, particularly as Keith himself is so strong in urging more research before it is contemplated, the evidence is underwhelming and likely to remain so.

    Give Max some due, he is getting a hard time from some of his fellow travellers for even suggesting that the evidence may be less than undeniable.
     
  39. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    The chemtrail hoax would never have lasted if the people promoting it were willing to have their claims pinned down to testable specifics. They simply never allow that. I can't imagine that Max will actually debate specifics.

    How can Max's overture be genuine? He has expressed utter contempt for Metabunk as being part of the intentional coverup.
     
  40. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Besides that, the Mt. Shasta/Redding crew also interviewed David Keith years before on the street. The small guy with long hair having this discussion was the original site owner of geoengineeringwatch.org. Mauro Oliviera. Keith plainly states his opposition to geoengineering application and his fears that if it were done here could be unforseen consequences. The folks speaking to him decided to not air this footage in the WITWATS movie, but rather doctored some footage to try and make him an "Emmanuel Goldstein" (like in 1984) that their followers could more easily focus hate upon.


    Predictable results from the "Two Minutes Hate" club:

    keiththreats.JPG
     
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