1. ZoomBubba

    ZoomBubba New Member

    A certain someone has been posting these Las Vegas related memes on my Facebook timeline:
    [​IMG]

    I know they're totally incorrect, but I'm having trouble finding anything to link to that outright debunks these claims. I'm guessing that they were never high debunking priorities. But I know I've seen casino security footage of him bringing in the guns.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 6, 2017
  2. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    As far as I know, no such footage has been posted. It obviously exists though, but is not something that's automatically going to be released in the middle of an ongoing investigation.

    The meme itself is false, because it claims that surveillance cameras did not capture anything - however since nobody has actually claimed this then it's based on nothing other than not seeing footage yet.
     
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  3. penk

    penk New Member

    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Well technically that's less than a second of the plane. Though Truther's generally claim they can't see it.

    This thread is more about the Las Vegas footage though.
     
  5. ZoomBubba

    ZoomBubba New Member

    That's what I've figured. There's been some footage released of him sneaking the weapons in, but not a huge amount of it. I'm mainly looking for something that says "there's lots of footage reviewed" so I can have something to support outright logic when I post on this subject.
     
  6. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    I just don't see why the footage would show anything. He was in the hotel for three days, so presumably he brought the weaponry in a few at a time inside suitcases, appearing like any other guest. Why would that arouse suspicion?

    Does whoever made this meme think he waltzed in with the guns bristling under his arms and strolled up 31 flights of stairs?
     
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  7. Clouds Givemethewillies

    Clouds Givemethewillies Active Member

    Only in the USA!
     
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  8. ZoomBubba

    ZoomBubba New Member

    That's what I'm assuming. Apparently they missed the part where he did this over the course of days.
     
  9. Rory

    Rory Senior Member

    The "85 videos" has long been debunked - it actually refers to the number of tapes/cameras the FBI investigated, but almost all of them were irrelevant to the Pentagon attack. A full list and further explanation is available here:

    http://www.911myths.com/index.php?title=FBI_hides_84_Pentagon_videos

    As for Las Vegas - I'd say "wait and see". It's early days yet. No doubt people are looking back over the security footage as we speak, and maybe some will be released.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  10. ZoomBubba

    ZoomBubba New Member

    I guess I'm kind of out of the loop, but I wasn't familiar with the 85 videos claim.
     
  11. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    It almost certainly will. The "false flag" enthusiasts seem to think that the Casino and law enforcement would be strongly motivated to prove the official story to conspiracy theorists, and so they feel that it's suspicious when they don't. Hence you get ludicrous demands for photos detailing the carnage, and even things like autopsy reports on children.

    It's a viewpoint at odds with reality. The Casino is concerned with it's public image and legal liability, law enforcement is concerned with solving the crime and finding any accomplices.

    Neither of them is concerned with false flag conspiracy theorists, who they consider to be irritating crazy people.

    The False flag conspiracy theorists consider themselves to be heroic truth seekers who understand how the world really works.

    So there's a bit of a disconnect.
     
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  12. SR1419

    SR1419 Senior Member

    ...and yet, if they did release footage, CT's would claim they are suspicious and doctored or fake...so, there really is no assuaging the CT's angst.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
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  13. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    where? The only footage I've seen of him is in the casino a few years ago in relation to his "slip and fall" lawsuit.


    If you were honestly wanting to debunk the meme YOU posted here... you could
    watch the police press briefings that say they are reviewing all the footage. And how much footage they are reviewing.

    You could look into other mass casualty events and easily show how police investigations work and WHEN known footage is released. and whether or not all footage police can get their hands on is reviewed during investigations.

    According to investigation press briefings, the LV police are reviewing ALL public cameras at all crime scenes and known places he visited, police body cams, footage they have from the Ogden hotel (from the weekend prior) etc. Based on other investigations of similar crimes, I'm sure they are also reviewing any gun store video available etc etc.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/LasVegasPolice/videos
     
  14. ZoomBubba

    ZoomBubba New Member

    If I remember correctly, ABC News had some footage of him going into the lobby of the hotel with suitcases. But, I've slept since then and can't find it online. Either I have a false memory or they found it wasn't him.

    I never gave the meme credibility in the first place, so the italics are not necessary.

    Anyway, already posted a debunk shortly after the first couple of posts here, after which my acquaintance removed it from her timeline. All I was interested were some links to ensure I had something if they called BS.[/quote][/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
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  15. ZoomBubba

    ZoomBubba New Member

    Their mental gymnastics are quite entertaining to behold at times.
     
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  16. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    if in fact you are just incredibly naïve, then I apologize. but you posted
    even though you advertised a ridiculous meme that is less than 24 hrs old and you obviously didn't even try to find out about the "85 cameras" side. or google to find out how many guns he had at the hotel.

    ff.JPG


    Then you add bunk 'evidence' unsourced to your OP.
    If you are not a false flagger, then you will have to forgive me - but I'm familiar with how they operate. and your choice of wording makes you sound like one, imo.
     
  17. Rory

    Rory Senior Member

    He's a journalist in Arkansas. I've had some PMs; seems a very nice polite chap and above board, just not familiar with how things work here.

    I know we've had a few "my friend showed me this nonsense - oh wait, there was no friend, it's true, you're all nutters" lately, but I'm pretty sure that this isn't another.
     
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  18. ZoomBubba

    ZoomBubba New Member

    Actually, I did try to find out the 85 camera at the Pentagon thing. I typed it into google and it turned up nothing. So, I assumed someone else might be familiar with it.

    I told her the gun thing was false before I posted here. He had 23 in the hotel room. You only reach 47, or whatever the number is I have to scroll up to see, when you add the ones from his other properties.

    I'd appreciate if you'd stop acting like I'm either a clueless dope or someone with ulterior motives. I've barely made five posts, after all.
     
  19. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    This came up when I googled it.

    http://www.911myths.com/index.php?title=FBI_hides_84_Pentagon_videos
     
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  20. ZoomBubba

    ZoomBubba New Member

    It's interesting how the advent of the camera phone has changed the way that people think. I think there are a lot of people looking back and forgetting what 2001 was like as far as both personal cameras and surveillance technologies.

    I think another thing that drives that Pentagon camera conspiracy theory is that it's the Pentagon and people then, like now, expect it to be the most surveilled place in the world. I think they don't stop to think that much of the surveillance then was human, aka, security guards.
     
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  21. Rory

    Rory Senior Member

    Agreed. If others are like me, they're thinking 2001 was, like, yesterday, and nothing much has changed. Then I remember I was still using dial-up in 2006; saw my first text message in 2002; and freaked when I first saw a phone take a really poor picture in 2003.
     
  22. Clouds Givemethewillies

    Clouds Givemethewillies Active Member

    And Al-Qaeda did not have encrypted communications then.
     
  23. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    The important part is that besides the LVMPD press briefings outlining how much video they have retrieved and are reviewing, researching other investigations like this for ex:
    quickly show that in crime investigations all video footage is grabbed by police. and usually never released for public consumption. Certainly it is never released DURING an ongoing investigation.
     
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  24. tadaaa

    tadaaa Active Member


    maybe a Matrix fan?
     
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  25. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    I wonder whether the guest rooms have security cameras, in a casino hotel like this? I would assume not, as it seems like a major violation of privacy, but casinos do have a reputation for having cameras everywhere. Presumably that only really applies to the gaming rooms, though.

    Disclaimer: I've never been to Vegas and my only experience of such hotels comes from watching Ocean's Eleven ;)
     
  26. DJC

    DJC Member

    There are more cameras and security in those casinos then anywhere else in the world ...Can you imagine a gang setting up a robbery much like oceans eleven by bringing in an arsenal to do this ...I cannot .
     
  27. DJC

    DJC Member

    do you really think they missed the guy with 1000's of rounds of ammo and 20 or 30 guns ?

    http://urgentcomm.com/networks-amp-systems-mag/dont-bet-against-house
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2017
  28. Rory

    Rory Senior Member

    I would imagine they were inside bags and/or cases. So what you're really saying is, "do you really think they missed a guy carrying some bags to his room?"
     
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  29. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    No I don't think that. I'm asking whether they would have had cameras in the only place where the guns and ammo would have been visible.

    Have you ever had the contents of your suitcases checked when entering a hotel? I haven't.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
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  30. DJC

    DJC Member

    yes in Bogota i have even going to the mall your car is searched just saying
    ....regardless i was just pointing out that there should 1000 videos of this guy checking in ...where are they ..
     
  31. DJC

    DJC Member

    right ...but where is the video even showing that .... and if you had 40 bags would that not raise an eyebrow or 2 in a highly secure hotel ...we aren't talking about the holiday inn here its a hotel that protects large amounts of money and protects itself against lawsuits ....daily ..
     
  32. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    in police custody. just like in every other criminal investigation.
     
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  33. DJC

    DJC Member

    how convenient ....police never lie the government always tells us the truth ....why would we ever question them ...
     
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  34. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    No. and there is nothing to indicate he had 40 bags. This has been discussed in the Current Events thread.
    All we know officially (ie. from Police Sheriff) is "excess of 10 bags"

    He could have brought bags in slowly over several days (he was booked in the room 3 das prior to shooting)
    People attending conventions, etc in Las Vegas often have large amounts of bags.
    People having an extended visit in LV may have many bags.
     
  35. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    what does that have to do with anything? why would you even need to see him coming into the hotel with bags? There are plenty of hotel employees who knew him to verify he was there last weekend.
     
  36. DJC

    DJC Member

    maybe its me but i never carry my bags to my room its almost unheard of in a 5 star hotel .this would be suspicious in itself ...and saying it wouldn't raise and eyebrow in a highly secure hotel with facial recogniton and licence plate readers and surveilence and floor walkers and undercover security everywhere .....maybe it did or it didn't but to say NO ..is not honest
     
  37. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    what you makes you think he carried his own bags?
    no it wouldn't.
     
  38. Rory

    Rory Senior Member

    And no one would have noticed if had come in even three or four times a day and had a bag with him each time. Do conspiracy theorists really imagine someone watches guests coming and going, and that they will pick out someone because they have a bag with them, and also had one with them the day before?
    What would you expect? Would you like the videos to be elsewhere? Would you like stills or short clips from them released more quickly? If they don't come out till next week, for example, is there some kind of problem with that?
     
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  39. DJC

    DJC Member

    no thats great ...lets wait and see then ...lets see him getting those bags of guns in the hotel ....how long shall we wait a week or 2 or 3 ..or ? why not now though ...should be no issue right ?
     
  40. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    Unless they are leaked, it's more likely you wont see anything for a year or more. Until the investigation is complete and reporters and citizens can file FOIA requests.
    I see no reason police would bother releasing footage of him entering the hotel. Its a trivial thing.