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  1. Agent K

    Agent K Active Member

    Acosta's sweetheart deal also has conspiracy theories attached, since Acosta told the Trump transition team that he was told that "Epstein ‘belonged to intelligence’ and to leave it alone.”
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/jeffrey-epsteins-sick-story-played-out-for-years-in-plain-sight
    When he was asked about it, Acosta responded with a non-denial denial.

    "It Sure Looks Like Jeffrey Epstein Was a Spy—But Whose?"
    https://observer.com/2019/07/jeffrey-epstein-spy-intelligence-work/
    "Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell 'boasted of collecting compromising material on the rich and famous'"
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...aine-maxwell-boasted-collecting-compromising/
     
  2. Joe_the_Joe

    Joe_the_Joe New Member

    To clarify on legal baggage, from the blog of Solomon L. Wisenberg, regarding the indictment unsealed on July 8:
    https://lawprofessors.typepad.com/whitecollarcrime_blog/2019/07/jeffrey-epstein-case-materials.html
     
  3. Agent K

    Agent K Active Member

    Epstein was a federal informant and a "key federal witness."
    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article220097825.html
     
  4. I suppose Epstein could have lied to the lawyers so that he might then be able to finish himself off later...or did he genuinely think he would win on double jeopardy?

    https://nypost.com/2019/08/14/jeffrey-epsteins-last-words-to-lawyer-before-his-jailhouse-death/
     
  5. Joe_the_Joe

    Joe_the_Joe New Member

    The problem with trying to speculate as to his mental state without supporting evidence is that being suicidal isn't usually a long-term emotional state, generally being spontaneous instead. Failed suicide attempts tend to be embarrassing for the victim. Depression itself is notorious for being hidden behind a mask of optimism. However, the recent source cited certainly does not help the notion that he committed suicide at the very least, even if for the aforementioned reasons it does not necessarily help any other theories.
     
  6. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    None of the speculation about Epstein has supporting evidence. murder, suicide, some form of 'assisted suicide through negligence' etc.
     
  7. igoddard

    igoddard Active Member

    Hot off the press, first insights into the autopsy:
    Comments by an expert:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...9ac934-bdd9-11e9-b873-63ace636af08_story.html

    The hyoid bone...
    [​IMG]
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. Joe_the_Joe

    Joe_the_Joe New Member

    Suicide is the null hypothesis.
     
  9. Is it common for a medical examiner to hold off the results of an autopsy based on something that is not strictly forensic pathology?
     
  10. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    they determine homicide or suicide. I just grabbed the first link off Google, so you can look for better sources


    https://sudc.org/family-services/member-services-access/bereavementseries/topic3
     
  11. Oh, I should've dug a little.

    Straight from NYC Office of Chief Medical Examiner:

    https://www1.nyc.gov/site/ocme/services/forensic-pathology.page
     
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  12. Agent K

    Agent K Active Member

  13. Z.W. Wolf

    Z.W. Wolf Senior Member

    Yes. I speculate that they were panicking as they realized the magnitude of the situation.

    https://www.themarshallproject.org/...ghlights-a-staffing-crisis-in-federal-prisons
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/12/politics/jeffrey-epstein-substitute-guard-overtime/index.html
    I previously speculated that they began CPR on an obviously dead body.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  14. Z.W. Wolf

    Z.W. Wolf Senior Member

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20973326
    Not that rare, especially in older people.

    The media is taking this one factor and running with it. But there are other factors. E.g. the condition of the back of the neck. Trauma to the back of the neck indicates someone was strangling the victim - i.e. pressure from the ligature is pretty even all around the neck. Hanging is more consistent with less trauma on the back of the neck. I'm sure there are other factors.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
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  15. No shortage of broken hyoid studies.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22922547

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18511004

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17720591

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30015282

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3840836

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21793475

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3840836



    "Laryngohyoid fractures in hanging victims are one of the most studied and paradoxically contradictory topics in forensic pathology"
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
    • Informative Informative x 3
  16. Agent K

    Agent K Active Member

    Sounds like they were very good at preventing suicides and suicide attempts, which are much more frequent in other prisons.
     
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  17. Z.W. Wolf

    Z.W. Wolf Senior Member

    Feb., 2018

    https://www.motherjones.com/crime-j...-and-nurses-to-work-as-federal-prison-guards/


    July, 2018

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/federal-prison-bureau-trump_n_5b2bf738e4b00295f15a990a

    This continued mystified cries of, "How could this happen"? ... or "What's wrong with this prison"?...
    This is bordering on the disingenuous.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
  18. igoddard

    igoddard Active Member

    Yes, and there are two phones, two cups, two meals. Kinda like two people.

    But the NY Post's story was:
    And why would she bother to tell a paparazzi the title of the book she was reading? That sounds utterly contrived. And the book is on murdered CIA agents. That has a pranky smell, imo, like a conspiracy-theory joke.

    Note also that all the contents on the table are markedly shifted around from one to the next photo, indicating passage of time and much ado. As well note the different patrons in the surrounding tables from one to the next photo. So presumably this paparazzi was hovering over her for like 45 minutes. And she didn't call the police? A simple explanation seems to be that the "paparazzi" was actually the second person for the second phone, cup and meal.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  19. Svein E.

    Svein E. New Member

    I disagree. He still had a chance with hoping for some help. I don't think he would kill himself before the final verdict, and was placed in prison, knowing he probably never getting out as a free man.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2019