1. Danny55

    Danny55 Member

    Could try Commissioner Gordon and Chief O'Hara via the Batphone Deedle dee, deedle dee, deedle dee, deedle dee, deedle deeeeeeee!
  2. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    Nah! . . . Just get in touch with your local drug dealer/supplier . . . With a big enough purchase I am sure you can talk to the big boys . . .
  3. Spongebob

    Spongebob Active Member

    Big Boys??

    Full circle back to Mr. "Jes" extender?
  4. Spongebob

    Spongebob Active Member

    Watched the new Batman film the other day. Pretty good story and action mix.

    Gary Oldman (Gordon) does look like an "OLD" man with all that make- up.

    I preferred him when he was this psycho in his early days...

  5. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    Seems people do not have adequate explanations for the lack of temperature increase over the last decade . . . I have an explanation . . .

    Comments by Dr David Whitehouse on the PNAS paper Kaufmann et al.
    Reconciling anthropogenic climate change with observed temperature 1998 – 2008.

    "Despite what the authors of this paper state after their tinkering with an out of date climate computer model, there is as yet no convincing explanation for the global temperature standstill of the past decade.

    Either man-made and natural climatic effects have conspired to completely offset the warming that should have occurred due to greenhouse gasses in the past decade, or our estimation of the ‘climate sensitivity’ to greenhouse gasses is too large.

    This is not an extreme or ‘sceptic’ position but represents part of the diversity of scientific opinion presented to the IPCC that is seldom reported."

  6. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    But what makes your explanation more convincing that all the other suggested explanations?
  7. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    Both are speculation . . . my explanation is elegant and fills the equation with the missing unknown factor . . . it is totally logical and is the simplest possible explanation . . . just because the scientist refuse to consider it doesn't make it wrong . . .
  8. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Well, not really. Your explanation is deus ex machina. You might as well say God did it.

    Besides, the lack of air temperature increase does not actually mean the planet is not warming. The real science shows that it IS warming. So no need for a super secret fleet of jets conceived by a mad scientist 50 years ago.


  9. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    Absolutely, there is evidence that heating continues . . . how does that argue against attempts at mitigation????? It motivates it!!!!!
  10. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    Seems the scientists can't agree is it China or the never before small volcanic activity in the tropics . . . but they can't prove these volcanoes didn't vent all along . . . what a dilemma . . .

    "So now burning coal causes cooling?by Jonathan DuHamel on Jul. 10, 2011, under Climate change, Energy


    Climate modelers are having a problem. The global temperature is not cooperating with the way the modelers say it should if their theories are correct. We learned of their consternation from the “Climategate” emails: Kevin Trenberth of the National Center for Atmospheric Research said, “The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment, and it is a travesty that we can’t.”

    Now the modelers claim that China has saved the day by burning coal. A paper in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (written, by the way, by two geographers and two economists) claim that increased coal burning in China has put enough sulfur dioxide (SO2) in the air to block the alleged warming effect of carbon dioxide.

    The logical, but perhaps absurd, conclusion of this claim is that we should abandon wind turbines and solar arrays, to burn much more coal.

    If we stipulate that air quality near Chinese coal-burning power plants is foul, the question remains: is this a local effect or is it world-wide, enough to affect global temperature? Well, apparently the effect is not world-wide. The EPA measures air quality and the graph below shows that in the U.S., sulfur dioxide content of the air has been steadily decreasing. (Source )

    Recently, the trend, based on ground-based lidar measurements, has been tentatively attributed to an increase of SO(2) entering the stratosphere associated with coal burning in Southeast Asia. However, we demonstrate with these satellite measurements that the observed trend is mainly driven by a series of moderate but increasingly intense volcanic eruptions primarily at tropical latitudes."
  11. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    You can't have it both ways :) First you suggest lack of heating is evidence of a covert geoengineering, then you say actual heating is evidence of covert geoengineering.

    I suspect you could fit anything into your James Bond scheme with a little imagination.

    But sure, it motivates mitigation. It does not mean that immediate geoengineering is the best form of mitigation if the side effects of geoengineering are unknown.
  12. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Scientist don't agree shocker! I though scientists were all dogmatic and inflexible?

    Burning more coal for the short term benefits of global dimming is not a good idea. Sulphur has a vastly shorter lifespan in the atmosphere than CO2.

    Oh, and can you please check your sound bites on Skeptical Science first?


    Come on George, this isn't GLP. Don't just pull things out of Google that sound good.
  13. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    I never said it was the best solution . . . I am saying a group of egomaniacal powerful scientists and politicians like Edward Teller and the Congressional Military Industrial Complex jumped the gun and proceeded to engage in ICAAIP . . .
  14. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    "deus ex machina" . . . sure just like those previously unaccounted for, covert volcanic venting all of a sudden became the answer to NOAA scientists as a stratospheric sulfur source . . . except most would stay in the troposphere . . . LoL!!!!
  15. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    More statements of fact while refusing to provide anything but belief and opinion as evidence.
  16. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    That's funny . . . I thought I was quoting [h=3]So now burning coal causes cooling?[/h]by Jonathan DuHamel on Jul. 10, 2011, underClimate change, Energy or Dr David Whitehouse . . . ????
  17. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    George, this is a big claim you have made. but the data says otherwise, and you have never addressed THESE ISSUES.

    The fact that you haven't been willing to discuss or argue against any of this tells me that you know better.

    Sad to say it, but when you lie to us its one thing, but when you fail in this way, we can see you are either

    A. Simply lying to yourself, which has horrible internal consequences.
    B. Making these claims for some other ulterior motive, perhaps to satisfy someone else or some perceived gain.

    Either way, we know you know by your actions as I mentioned above, and it's actually sad to see.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  18. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    What data says otherwise??? Please specify?? And what have I refused to discuss?? Please specify as well? To my knowledge no one on my Threads had ever presented the Chart you are referring about . . . AOD, TSI, and MEI are parameters used to correlate with temperature records to make assumptions regarding climate change . . . there is significant discussion about what is up, what is down, and what is flat . . . I talk about the amount of aerosols (sulfur in particular) in the stratosphere . . . aerosols are the only measure that has the least controversy . . . known episodic significant loadings have universally shown cooling responses . . .
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  19. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    I think the following paper conflicts with your conclusions from the 2007 study of AOD you cited . . . "Long-Term Satellite Record RevealsLikely Recent Aerosol Trend" Michael I. Mishchenko,* Igor V. Geogdzhayev, William B. Rossow, Brian Cairns,Barbara E. Carlson, Andrew A. Lacis, Li Liu, Larry D. Travis

  20. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    Ironic isn't it (The Glory Aerosol Polarimetry Sensor)-the one instrument that could have answered many of the needed answers about aerosols possible origins and climatic effects was a Raytheon project . . . and . . . was somehow lost by a failed launch!!! What are the odds?????
  21. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    Should we try again . . .

    Charge to the APS-2 Science Team and Review Panel
    On 4 March 2011, the Aerosol Polarimetry Sensor (APS) was lost as a consequence of the failed launch of the Glory Mission. On 6 March 2011, Dr. Michael Freilich, Director of the Earth Science Division, Science Mission Directorate, NASA Headquarters, di- rected the Glory APS Science Team to perform a comprehensive study intended to de- velop and evaluate the science rationale for an APS reflight. This study was to be per- formed with the help of a panel of outside experts, and its results were to be summarized in the form of a white paper focusing on the following topics:
    ● What is the current state of the art and the uncertainties associated with estimates of aerosol radiative forcings based on existing satellite data and models?
    ● What are or will be the critical science questions concerning aerosol effects on the Earth system currently and extending to ~2020?
    ● What are the limitations of our current and confirmed space-borne aerosol observa- tional capabilities to address these questions?
    ● Can an APS-2 sensor (a near-carbon copy of the Glory APS) add significantly to the aerosol retrieval capability of current satellite instruments and those expected to be launched before 2015?
    ● What are the gaps in our knowledge of aerosols that APS-2 would fill?
    ● What is the key aerosol and cloud information expected to be provided by APS-2 ob- servations that can be used by process models and climate models to improve projec- tions of changes in the Earth system?
    ● Can formation-flying enhance the ability of APS-2 to address these questions?
    ● What is the likely impact of postponement of an advanced aerosol polarimetry mis-
    sion for ~10 years?
    This document describes “The real problems to be solved, and how the APS-2 mission will advance the solution, making unique and essential contributions.”
  22. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    Seems NASA and others understand the void in the equations . . . a void that an ICAAIP can easily capitalize on . . . as long as one doesn't greatly exceed the background clutter . . . around 1-1.5 Tg a year would be almost undetectable without this new technology not to be launched until 2015 maybe!!!!! If we began injections slowly in the 1990s it is just background noise now . . .


    "continued failure to quantify the specific origins of the large aerosol forcings is unten-able, as knowledge of changing aerosol effects is needed to understand future Earth-system change. ". page 27


  23. Des O

    Des O New Member

    Yet again there is no evidence of injections!
  24. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    Yet again, all the evidence presented by this Forum fails to disprove such a program may exists . . . despite all your attempts to imply such evidence exists . . .
  25. Des O

    Des O New Member

    Yet again you can not prove a negative!! This has been stated over and over again. You can't prove something doesn't exist. You must provide evidence that geoengineering exists George.
  26. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    Belief and opinion is all that a scientist sometimes begins with . . . until they can alert enough other investigators who will join and engage in the search . . . refusal to consider a plausible explanation for the existence of increased stratospheric aerosols (anthropomorphic) because of cultural bias is not what I call an exhaustive process . . . the possibility that people and agencies could be doing everything to hide their activities does not compute to most scientists and therefore since they think that such concealment is not possible or logical, IMO they say to themselves . . . I won't look for evidence of such activity . . .
  27. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    The premiss of this Thread is a hypothetical ICAAIP which could operate without detection using sulfur compounds injected into the lower stratosphere . . . I supplied significant information to that end . . . You are free to accept its plausibility or reject it . . . it has stimulated significant discussion . . . to me that is success . . .
  28. Des O

    Des O New Member

    George everything is plausible until proven to be reality. My cat is actually a miniature unicorn in disguise is plausible. It is incredibly unlikely but is plausible. SO you have stated geoengineering is plausible, we agree it is plausible. The end.....provide some proof it is happening and then we can talk.
  29. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    I feel the evidence presented in this thread . . . is way more convincing than your "miniature unicorn" theory . . . it is your right to disagree and I disagree with you likewise . . .
  30. Spongebob

    Spongebob Active Member

    I don`t feel that any "evidence" you have presented in this thread proves/demonstrates that anything at all "is" happening.

    The most important evidence (or possibility, which is your practice) presented in this thread is that "they" are most likely operating a fleet of sulphur spraying supertankers, from a top secret private island base.

    Prove me wrong. You can`t!

    "They" even provided predictive programming for this over the years on films and TV.

    They are laughing at us and there`s nothing we can do about it. Boy do we all feel helpless now...
  31. Spongebob

    Spongebob Active Member

  32. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    It need not be a secret base . . . Just a secure area within a pre-existing air operation . . . near a rail head or possibly a pipeline . . . 27 flights a day or half that with flights shared with one or two sister locations . . . a good cover could be an air transport hub . . . like UPS, FedX, or smaller operation . .
  33. GregMc

    GregMc Senior Member

    It would probably need extremely high security, undoubtably guarded exclusively by robotic dogs and cats.
    • Like Like x 1
  34. Trigger Hippie

    Trigger Hippie Senior Member

    The complete lack of evidence to substantiate any part of this robotic dog theory is, of course, a testament to the theories elegance. It also demonstrates that the level of secrecy for this deep black "robotic dog" operation is on par with the Manhattan project and the development of the stealth fighter.
  35. GregMc

    GregMc Senior Member

    But can it be any coincidence that raytheon is deeply involved in robotics technology?
    To quote from their website: "Raytheon provides world-class expertise and thought leadership in robotics technology. We are a research and development leader in designing and building advanced robotic systems for a variety of applications."

    I think we need look no further for substantiation of the robotic canine and feline guardianship of these bases.
    They have been in development for some time.
    It's easy enough to read between the Lions.

    • Like Like x 2
  36. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    Except you have only presented "evidence" in this thread of what YOU would do if you wanted to carry out this operation.

    As always with these chemtrail stories you have not presented anything other than speculation that anyone else is doing anything of the sort.
  37. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    Third time's the charm . . . incompetence personified . . . seems beyond even the government to use the same failed company . . . unless you have a reason to make all climate analysis systems fall into the ocean . . . LoL!!!!!!


    Both the rocket and the satellite were built by Orbital Sciences Corp. of Dulles, Va. . . . and they still have the contract for the next launch . . . !!!!!





    Fri, 4 March, 2011
    Taurus Rocket Fairing Glitch Dooms NASA’s Glory Mission
    By Turner Brinton

    NASA's Glory climate-monitoring satellite
    Enlarge Image
    Updated at 1:13pm

    WASHINGTON — NASA’s $424 million Glory climate observation satellite was lost in a March 4 launch attempt from Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif., after the shroud designed to protect the spacecraft during its climb to orbit atop a Taurus XL rocket failed to separate, agency officials said.

    The Taurus XL, built by Orbital Sciences Corp. of Dulles, Va., was making its return to flight two years after a similar fairing problem destroyed NASA’s Orbiting Carbon Observatory (OCO) satellite. After replacing the fairing-separation mechanism thought to be the culprit in the OCO launch failure, the government-industry team believed the Glory launch had “an acceptable level of risk,” Rich Straka, Orbital’s deputy general manager for launch operations, said during a March 4 press conference at Vandenberg.

    The Glory satellite, also built by Orbital, was designed to operate in polar orbit to monitor aerosols in the Earth’s atmosphere and continue NASA’s uninterrupted 30-year history of observing solar energy output. It carried the Aerosol Polarimetry Sensor, built by Raytheon Space and Airborne Systems of El Segundo, Calif., and the Total Irradiance Monitor, built by the University of Colorado’s Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics.

    No issues arose during preparations for the launch, and the rocket lifted off from the launch pad successfully, Omar Baez, NASA’s Glory launch director, said during the press conference. The Taurus XL’s first- and second-stage motors burned properly, and the third stage ignited two minutes and 45 seconds into the flight. The clamshell-style payload fairing was supposed to jettison six seconds after third-stage ignition, but rocket performance data indicates that never happened, Baez said. Glory splashed down somewhere in the southern Pacific Ocean, he said.

    “It’s a very difficult situation we’re in here,” Baez said.

    After an extensive investigation of the OCO launch failure, a decision was made to replace the Taurus XL’s fairing-separation mechanism, a combustion system designed to create hot gas that pushes the pistons that eject the two halves of the nose cone, said Ron Grabe, the executive vice president and general manager for Orbital’s launch systems group. It was replaced by a system that uses a bottle of cold, pressurized nitrogen to drive the pistons, he said. The cold gas system was successfully used in all three launches of the Orbital-built Minotaur 4 rocket last year, he said.

    “We really went into this flight confident that we had nailed the fairing issue,” Grabe said. “It’s not an understatement to say that tonight we’re all pretty devastated.”

    Meanwhile, Orbital is building an OCO replacement for NASA and in June was awarded a $70 million contract to launch the satellite on a Taurus XL. Depending on the findings of Glory’s Mishap Investigation Board, the agency may have to change that plan, said Michael Luther, deputy associate administrator for programs in NASA’s Science Mission Directorate.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  38. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    There will be no direct evidence . . . the people who planned, deployed and manage the program are some of the most intelligent and secrecy savvy people who have ever lived . . .
  39. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    ...so you believe.
  40. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    And this is the same government you lambast in the post above for screwing things up - they are so good that they can hide every single piece of evidence of a worldwide operation that would be using thousands of people and affects tens-of-thousands of aircraft, through 3 different administrations, screws up 2 wars, doesn't notice the approaching financial crisis, and generally si as incompetent as any government anywhere.

    Yet you claim this same government would be able to totally hide every single piece of verifiable physical evidence - from chemicals (so well hidden you can't even find them in the air!), to load sheets, to aircraft design and specification changes, to eyewitness testimony and everything else besides??