1. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    i know what a bubble sounds like when its popping through ice, so i believe you are hearing it.

    i'd also like to remind you, that just because this thread is showing that ice doesnt prove orgone (in any orgone or cemenite pics i could find) doesnt mean 'orgone' is debunked. We are only discussing if ice is a good test method.

    here i hammered a nail through my ice. now the nail is alot bigger than your ice holes but hopefully you can see the effect. in the beginning i hold my finger over the hole for about 15 seconds to let the bubbles accumulate (my ice is mostly frozen through so my bubbles arent as rapid as half frozen ice)... hopefully you could seee if i had more bubbles, less frozen ice container and a smaller hole, how your effect could happen.

    you are also using a much larger container...mine is a spice jar only ie. less water, less bubbles, much much bigger hole in ratio.
     

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  2. nathan bensch

    nathan bensch Member

    Well, if my pyramid still has power, then i could give it a try again in a few days. Then we'll see. I also didn't have to put a nail through my ice. Just take the ice out and let it happen.
     
  3. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    another way to look at it is that plastic containers HOLD water. so even if the ice was melting fast, it wouldnt be on the outside of the plastic container.
     
  4. nathan bensch

    nathan bensch Member

    An
    And that makes it different how? And if you were to look at the original video on youtube, some of the commenters do acknowledge that it was melting fast.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
  5. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    i dont understand the question.

    testing "melt speeds" would be easy.

    Take two of the exact same containers. Put your orgonite or cemenite in one. Fill with water 3/4 ths to the same level. Put in freezer. wait 24 hours.

    take both containers out of the freezer. Do NOT run hot water over them. Flip them both upside down in the sink.

    If the "orgonite" one melts and slides out of the container first, then it is melting faster.
     
  6. nathan bensch

    nathan bensch Member

    Well, there was some issue about a plastic container. Anyway, i still have that other one from the last photo frozen. I could put the pyramid on that one and watch it melt. The other way would take a couple of days. I can even put pyramid in freezer for a few hours. I might get a couple of thermometers. It's not that the pyramid is hot, it just somehow has an effect of melting ice (in my past experience). The room temperature of my apartment may be around 65 ○F right now.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2016
  7. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    you cant show anything without a control. ie doing the EXACT same thing, in the EXACT same size containers- one with orgone and one without orgone.

    it would take 24 hours. up to you.

    The issue with the plastic container is that even IF the ice with orgone in it is melting faster, you wouldnt know that from the condensation on the OUTSIDE of the container. Any melted ice would still be INSIDE the container.

    Now if you want to say "orgonite" attracts humidity to it, that's fine. Would be good for the skin if it's true. But a singel wet container with orgone in it doesnt prove that unless you have a control (ie one without orgone) sitting right next to it, taken from the freezer at the same time.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. nathan bensch

    nathan bensch Member

    Well, i can put it on there tonight just to reassure myself it will work. Then fill up two containers for test later.
     
  9. Gridlock

    Gridlock Active Member

    Sorry if I missed it, but how do you make your orgonite? It seems to me there's no one recipe, so I'm curious as to what precisely you are freezing?

    http://www.orgonite.info/how-to-make-orgonite.html

     
  10. nathan bensch

    nathan bensch Member

    Well, i just order from someone. Kossgr41 or sucahyo. There's another name alba - something or other. Still waiting on sucahyo. Yes, i acknowledge that everyone makes theirs differently (although cemenite makers aren't supposed to have any variations), but that doesn't necessarily have to mean anything.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  11. Spectrar Ghost

    Spectrar Ghost Senior Member

    Doesn't it? Differing proportions of ingredients significantly alter the properties of such substances as steel and doped nanomaterials. Why is orgonite different in this respect?

    Differing orgonite compositions affect the 'field' or whatever could make a difference in effects? (I still haven't heard a coherent explanation of how the field works, but that's another thread.)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    my only question with ice formations... i did notice that it seemed i got more of the 'bulbed' end bubble trails (flowers)when i added a rock to the container. so im wondering if the surface of the rock..being not smooth like the containers affects the bubbles a bit.


    The orgonite i've seen (youtube vids ive seen of people making the things, they are just throwing random amounts of materials in ie. no measuring or anything) is smooth on the surface. Where as this "cemenite", that nathan says has the 'bulbed end trails' (look like flowers or sperms) is a slab of cement basically...so a rougher surface than orgonite. ?

    as far as if cement interacts with water differently than resin (orgonite's main base) vs just plain water, i dont know anything about chemistry. But im wondering, yes, if the materials react differently a bit in water.

    i read if you throw salt in the water the freeze is different, although i forget now how..i think it was about getting 'clearer ice'.
     
  13. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    When water freezes it has to freeze "on" something. This is known as a "nucleation" site.

    The best nucleation sites are just ice, so ice "grows" on ice, and hence it grows from the nucleation site. This might be the sides of a container, or it might be the surface of the water, or the meniscus, or something in the water, an object or impurities.

    This all depends on how warm things are. If the container is well insulated, or poorly insulated, but sat on something thats above freezing, then freezing might start from the top.

    Adding salt to water lowers the freezing point.

    Water that does not have any good nucleation sites can become supercooled, where all the water is well below freezing, and then nucleation and freezing can happen very suddenly and in odd ways when nucleation is initiated by adding something or shaking the water.
     
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  14. nathan bensch

    nathan bensch Member

    As long as it works, how it is made doesn't matter. Everyone has different opinions of how orgonite should be made. Cemenite is different in that variations could produce an opposite effect. For more info on that, just look up "suchanyovideo". It's not on topic, so i won't discuss it here, except to say that cemenite is just a tad more than cement.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  15. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    i'm sure you're thrilled, but how cool is this? its a small roundish rock in one of those small styrofoam gravy containers from KFC. thin plastic lid and a bag of frozen spinach on top. (ran it through my 'dynamic monochrome' filter)

    P1020257.JPG



    and from the side it looks like a bundt cake on a glass platter :)

    P1020251.JPG
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. nathan bensch

    nathan bensch Member

    Yeah, it looks cool. On my ice melting, not working, but since i know it did happen before, it may just need to be charged properly.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    admit, "late in" but? What is an "organite"?

    Would like to understand more, because I tend to be inquisitive.
     
  18. Galan

    Galan New Member

    organite is a term used in cell biology. Don't think it's being used in the same sense. ;)
     
  19. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    that's what Google is for :)

    lets not go off topic here, but real quick..it's like "crystals" for the new millenium.
     
  20. nathan bensch

    nathan bensch Member

    Due to restriction of free speech, it cannot be discussed here.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  21. Galan

    Galan New Member

    So far all I have seen are pictures of frozen ice. It not clear to me what is being debunked.
    The reason that no one has gotten a Nobel prize is that there is no science to back any claim.
    As to the government stopping research on this subject, why? If it has any of these interesting properties scientists would leap at the chance to do some research.

    Am I missing something? New to this whole process. :)
     
  22. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    You can discuss it in PM. or if you think what i wrote is bunk you can write a proper thread following posting guidelines, showing how orgonite is different from the "crystal healing etc" of the past. You can even use my quote as your bunk claim.
     
  23. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    There's a specific claim of evidence, that "orgonite" affects the formation of ice in some way. The majority of the thread is attempting to nail down what the claim actually is. Basically discussing the need for proper controls in any such experiment, and noting that there aren't any in the example discussed.
     
  24. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    i also split this thread from the thread the OP [Opening thread Post] was originally posted in: https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-orgone-ice-stalagmites-and-spikes.t520/ , as the topic and OP was off topic in that particular thread. But this thread continues the premise. I updated the OP to reflect this, sorry i forgot to do that earlier.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. mm1145

    mm1145 Member

    I may be a bit behind the curve here but here is the result of my ice experiment
    2016-01-31 13.33.14.

    2016-01-31 13.32.56.

    to me it looks like that is the standard pattern you see when you freeze water that freezes for all sides at once what was interesting was I took it out halfway through and the half-formed ice round the edge was perfectly clear as you can see the bubble effect is only in the centre.

    just as interestingly you can see the same bubbly effect is some wax I had left over form candles I was doing

    2016-01-31 18.10.42.

    if anybody actuality knows how to get rid of it I would be interested as I want to create a clearer candle
     
  26. cloudspotter

    cloudspotter Senior Member

    That video I posted in the other thread might give you some pointers

    [mod strike out due to thread move]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2016
  27. txt29

    txt29 Active Member

    Not sure whether the same method as at the blocks of ice (keeping water in motion) would work with wax, but perhaps the technique used for removing bubbles from hardening epoxy resin might be suitable here too - simply use a vacuum pump. In emergency even a vacuum cleaner may help.

    EDIT: you can find plenty of videos for epoxy degassing on YouTube. For example this one:



    You will probably have to make your set up so that you can degas it while heating, and then let it cool in the vacuum container. I think that an old pressure cooker might be quite suitable for that purpose.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
  28. Kyle nance

    Kyle nance New Member

    So i did an experiment with an orgonite pyramid to test its effects on food coloring and water freezing. i used tap water and one drop of red food coloring. I did the control last so i will have to do it again to be sure orgone energy does not change the outcome of the experiment. So far the food coloring seems to be pulled towards the pyramid. When i put it on top food coloring was pulled more towards the top. Went i put the pyramid on the bottom the food coloring was pulled more towards the bottom. With no pyramid the food coloring was pulled more towards the top but also more evenly distributed. Screenshot_20190421-122811_Video Player.
    Pyramid on top
    IMG_20190421_123041_407.
    Pyramid on bottom(ice flipped upside down)
    IMG_20190421_123041_406.
    Control no pyramid (possibly contaminated with energy left in freezer. Was aired out for 24 hrs.
    20190421_073135.
    Control
    20190421_073130.
    Pyramid on bottom
    20190421_073121.
    Pyramid on top
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019