1. osvid

    osvid New Member

    Admin. How do you explain the X's in the sky? And btw, I have film footage of ghost white jets doing this. A commercial jet flies from point A to point B, they may need to circle the airport. I have witnessed 5 jets above my house at once making trails and X's, turning them off and on, no fires in the area, so why are the cloud cowboys going back and forth from point a, b, c, d, e, f, g? This is NOT normal flight patterns. Any one with a brain knows this. I live in Missouri Ozarks. There are a few of us that have stills of the x's, and film footage of the jets that look like they are going to hit each other and the last minute they make a sharp turn. No Fires, none it all....water vapors what a joke, you have been De-Bunked!
     
  2. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    X's are formed where flight paths cross in an area of ice supersaturation. These areas can be quite small.

    You should look around on contrailscience.com a bit more, all the patterns you describe are quite explainable. If you'd like a particular pattern explained then please post a photo.
     
  3. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    When did you notice these x's? I live near Lake Norfork in the Arkansas Ozarks just south of you. You have considerable ordinary jet traffic over your area, I began identifying the trails you see back in 1999. That was 14 years ago. They aren't hard to identify if you want, and you can phtograph them clearly enough to see the windows and the numbers on the plane. see:
    https://www.metabunk.org/threads/100-14-Years-of-Chemtrails-Comments-and-Suggestions

    Unfortunately, the people promoting the ideas of chemtrails never speak of these common sense approaches.
    If the 'mystery' of chemtrails were to be solved and become widely known, some of them would lose an income stream which they have become accustomed to, while others would appear foolish.
    You probably know who I am speaking of... think about it.....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  4. A380

    A380 Member

    X's in the sky exist, since more and more jets are en route and flight routes are over a region. Now chemtrail believers say: Look to the sky. And people see the X's.
     
  5. GregMc

    GregMc Senior Member

    I think an easy way for osvid to understand is to ask if he/she is mystified by X's on the land. Where Cars need to travel in different directions, there are X's on the ground. We even call these "crossings" . Are they suspicious? Only if you think cars travelling to different destinations are suspicious.

    planes travel to different destinations (just look at the number and locations of airports around the world.
    That means that inevitably there will be many X intersections in the sky, just as there are many on the ground.
    If the atmospheric conditions are suitable for contrail formation these intersections will be visible in the form of X's.

    If there is wind up there then the intersecting trails will drift relative to the ground and any NEW intersections will form over the original spot, resulting in the X's being offset and forming a grid.
    Have a look at Micks sim that shows this very clearly: http://contrailscience.com/contrail-simulations/
     
  6. Sugar

    Sugar New Member

    I'm sorry for my first post to be playing Devil's Advocate, yet the explanation for the increasing number of X'es being observed, (crossing flight paths in a small area) is patently absurd. Condensation trails do exist without them being chemical-laden "death from above," however, the repetitive X'es, either stacked in a directional line of 3 or more are not only highly unlikely, they are (per FAA commercial and cargo aircraft distance regulations) as statistically probable as winning the Powerball Lottery! As a skydiver, we are used to estimating the height of the cloud ceiling, wind speeds and direction as well as other "jump-impacting factors. Wen the cloud deck is around 20-30 thousand feet, contrails will appear as jet pass through that level. Under the same conditions seeing planes trailing contrails at 7-10 thousand feet, AND crossing paths closely enough to make a set of these X'es would have those pilots grounded, investigated, fined, suspended and if this was to occur near heavy population densities, be fired and permanently grounded. I'd like to add a question as well...how do you explain the "checkerboard-pattern" contrails?
     
  7. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Sugar, I think Greg's answer above covers it. Did you look at the simulation?
    http://contrailscience.com/contrail-simulations/

    Do you have a particular photo you'd like to discuss? I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "repetitive X'es, either stacked in a directional line of 3 or more"
     
  8. Sugar

    Sugar New Member

    Thanks, Mick..I will try and find some of the checkerboard pics. I just got an ultrabook with that darn Windows-8, because my old one got too corrupted for repair and too old to update...so I'm having to run from one machine to the other. I'll do a bit of searching though. Thank you for having such a site that allows for so many diverse opinions to be discussed.
     
  9. Belfrey

    Belfrey Senior Member

    I have yet to see evidence of this. Can you present any?
    You seem to be under the false impression that they would be dodging each other in close quarters in order to have contrails crossing. They are not crossing close to each other, but rather one plane is crossing the path of another's contrail later on. Since contrails can persist for long periods of time, they do not need to be crossing the same place at the same time to make an "x".
     
  10. FreiZeitGeist

    FreiZeitGeist Senior Member

    Surprising, sometimes a YouTube-Video can be better than any simulation.

    Watch this short Timelapse-Video. You see airplanes flying on the same routes and the Wind making a "Checkerboard" out of it. You can allways detect the "Ice-SuperSaturated-Regions" (ISSR) where the contrails keep visible and expand. Why are these ice-saturaded regions are not beeing moved by the wind? Because they exist due to convection from the ground


     
    • Like Like x 5
  11. Belfrey

    Belfrey Senior Member

    Ausgezeichnet, danke!
     
  12. Ross Marsden

    Ross Marsden Senior Member

    Nice little video!

    Notice that some of the contrails pass in front of the Sun and cast a shadow into mid-frame. This demonstrates why and how you get those "dark beams".
     
  13. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    I agree. I've been looking at "chemtrail" pictures for 14 years and though I've seen lots of claimed 'low altitude chemtrails', they always turn out about the same.

    Many airports you can get 1-2 miles away and photograph the planes. Those photos of 5,200 -10,400 feet look quite different from the 20-30,000 ft pictures.

    I'd like to see your pictures, too!
     
  14. Sugar

    Sugar New Member

    Here is a pic of the checkerboard pattern:
    [​IMG]
    and another one:
    [​IMG]
    and a very pretty one:
    [​IMG]
    also a copy of lab testing of one of the samples:
    [​IMG]
    perhaps these images and lab testing may show the difference between contrails and chemtrails...I dunno.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
    • Like Like x 1
  15. FreiZeitGeist

    FreiZeitGeist Senior Member

    Well, you posted some pictures, that a simple Google-Pictures-Search shows

    These are not YOUR pictures. They are old.

    You sayed:

    ... and you have no picture of your own? All Skydivers I know have much more cameras around their body they could handle.

    ... and you are presenting very, very old Pictures everybody here knows...?

    As Jay Reynolds sayed:

    YOUR PICTURES!

    Not what you´ve found in the Net searching for "chemrtrails Grid"
     
  16. Sugar

    Sugar New Member

    I reckon you didn't really want to see those pics. Still, I seriously doubt those checkerboard patterns are condensation trails..but what on earth could they be, since there is no such thing as chemtrails, I guess I've merely been brainwashed, and the thousands of samples taken after these appear must have all been dupes or worse, incompetent liars falsifying test results worldwide. Ooh...those folks have me scared for absolutely no reason! Who'd a thunk it. lol
     
  17. Sugar

    Sugar New Member

    When I started skydiving in 1980, we did take quite a few pictures, however there were no X's or checkerboards to take pictures of, and regardless of who took them or when, does that make them any less informative? I am not a researcher per se, nor do I devote my time and disability money to scouring the earth in an effort to prove or disprove the existence of chemtrails. However, I'm sure you can explain these patterns...which is what I was hoping for...because of the deadly nature of the collected samples and the overwhelming accumulating evidence of these highly toxic chemicals, bacteria, virii and fungi that have been saturating the air, food and water for over 20 years. IMHO blanket denial is just as dangerous as blanket acceptance. THAT is why I joined this site. Perhaps I had the wrong concept in mind. If so, I do apologize.
     
  18. JFDee

    JFDee Senior Member

    Sugar,

    take two regularly-used flight routes that are crossing at one point. Add a bit of wind (which can be quite steady and strong at contrail altitude), and there is no way to prevent a checkerboard pattern.

    Have a look at this:
    http://contrailscience.com/contrail-simulations/
     
    • Like Like x 2
  19. RolandD

    RolandD Active Member

    That video is an excellent demonstration, thanks FreiZeitGeist. I had always figured that x's and grids were military jets on maneuvers. As for the greater prevalence nowadays, there is a lot more air traffic, now. I can remember seeing contrails, even x's and hearing the occasional sonic boom as a kid, back in the 70's.
     
  20. Rico

    Rico Active Member

    I had a look at your photos. They all look like condensation trails to me, likely occurring on a day of high humidity with a bit of wind. They also appear higher than 7-10k altitude, but that's just me.

    Now, I don't know what is specifically stated by the FAA that you are referring to, since I live in Canada (if you can cite a reference I can look it up), but as a pilot, I do know that commercial jets operating on instrument flight rules tend to often share the same "routes" and use the same navigation aids to or from different destinations, which facilitates the flow of traffic and makes it easier for air traffic controller to manage their flights. Thus, you can have planes flying back and forth following the same line. If they are criss-crossing from opposite directions, they will have at least 1,000' separation between them.

    Imagine this: If on a humid day, some of these aircraft are all creating condensation trails and some are sharing the same routes. All it takes is a bit of wind, and aircraft flying two different lines to create a checkboard pattern as some of the pictures you have shown.

    In an attempt to rephrase this, think of two aircraft flying in two different directions leaving two contrails. With some wind, after a brief amount of time those contrails gets shifted downwind. When other aircraft come in, flying the exact same path as the previous two, you end up with what you see in those photos.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. GregMc

    GregMc Senior Member

    Sugar, see if you can understand this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DSM7RS094c
    It shows a fixed flight path relative to the ground. Notice how parallel lines form. If there had been an intersection then a grid just like (not your's) photos would form.


    We are keen on seeing ANY of your parachuting photos. With or without trails.
    Most skydivers I know have a number of gopro or contour action cams. Which sort of camera is most common in your skydiving community?
    Can you explain how your disability effects your skydiving?


    You claim that there is evidence for toxic material in the sky.
    Can you please explain in detail why it is not found in any of the 80,000 passenger jets that fly every day? Their cabin pressurisation systems don't filter the air from outside as it gets pumped inside, yet for decades no -one has detected the materials chemtrail believers claim to be in the sky. Please explain why it isn't detected in the sky, despite 80,000 passenger jets collecting, compressing and sampling the air for an average of 6 hours each plane. That's 48,000hours of sampling PER DAY, every day yet no "chemtrails have yet been detected.

    Btw, what brand and model of chute do you use? Do you pack yourself?
     
    • Like Like x 4
  22. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Sugar, the test you posted above was covered in detail here, four years ago:
    http://contrailscience.com/chemtrail-non-science/

    Basically the test results are ignoring the mass of the air, and hence are testing the proportion of various elements in DIRT, not air. The values found are very high for air, but perfectly normal for dirt.
     
  23. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    Hah, my first though on seeing the test was "looks like dirt to me". My next thought was, "I've seen this before".
     
  24. SR1419

    SR1419 Senior Member

    Hi Sugar-

    thanks for posting those pics- and the lab results.

    Keep in mind that those results do not come from a "sample" of a trail but from HEPA filter located on the ground- just something to think about.

    But there WERE "Xs" and checkerboard patterns back on the 80s and before...just not nearly as many as there were not nearly as many planes in the sky then as there are now- but it DID happen- check out this book published in 1972:

    https://plus.google.com/photos/107393796095434664991/albums/5363662113705530081?banner=pwa
     
  25. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Isn't that the test where they scraped dust from an air filter and tried comparing the levels of elements with a Maximum Contaminant for drining water?

    Dust doesn't equal drinking water, sorry to say.....
     
  26. Sugar

    Sugar New Member

    Greg. when I first started jumping I was actually using a modified double L military T-10...lol. Never even got the chance to jump a paraglide or any of the squares. About 8 months after I started, I was hit by a drunk driver on my motorcycle which basically broke my neck, ruptured a bunch of internal organs and spinal discs, and put me in a coma for 11 days. after which I had to relearn how to do most everything. Needless to say my jack-of-all-trades construction career was over...such is life. I may be wrong. but it seems that you require some form of "proof" that I was a skydiver...which by inference tends to be very close to an assumption I am a liar. Besides being off topic, that seems to be a silly thing to lie about, but everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I am simply asking questions based on the little I know that IS factual, yet for some reason the answers "feel" just like they do when any of the U.S. "politicians" start answering questions on hard issues. Well, thanks for having such a site at least...
     
  27. GregMc

    GregMc Senior Member

    nah, I'm interested because I'm a keen kite surfer, sailboarder, hang-glider pilot and I love doing aerial photography. Some of my workmates have been skydiving instructors. I like doing things like jumping off mountains and cliffs, check out my photos
    http://www.facebook.com/greg.mckee.56
     
  28. Skause

    Skause New Member

    Not 5 mins ago i observed 2 of these x's and I refuse to believe they are coincidental because i see them all day, all most every day of the week.
     
  29. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    That's because planes are crossing paths near where you live. It's not a coincidence really, it's inevitable.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  30. GregMc

    GregMc Senior Member

    Hi Skause. Have a look at these videos of Air traffic over the USA, UK and Europe I'll link to below. There are around 80,000 large airliners and cargo planes flying from different points of departure to different destinations every single day. Follow any one of those aircraft that you see from the hundreds of flightpaths that inevitably nearly every single plane has to cross paths with another plane somewhere at cruising altitude (where persistent contrails tend to form). So if there are contrail conditions during their flights many of these 80,000 planes would be forming X's in the sky at some point in their flight.
    For short Journeys people usually take cars, busses and trains. For long journeys planes are more effective and that means each plane will tend to intersect with lots of other flightpaths.
    It also means planes will pass over towns and cities that they have no intention of landing at.
    But people are often mystified by that.. "how come those jets are going over when there's no big airport near here?"
    That's why they go over, they are on their way somewhere else and at high cruise altitude where contrails tend to form.

    So just one plane may form a number of intersections and thus crosses above people observing from below.
    That's a LOT of X intersections. (For cars we literally call them "crossings" ie like forming a cross on the ground. Intersecting Planes can thus form crosses in the sky )
    Think of how many cross streets you pass when driving a car. Flight route maps look just as busy as street maps.
    Go to skyvector.com and click on the "world high" button. Notice how many X's form from airliner flight paths?
    If you look at the video of worldwide flights you'll notice they form over oceans too.

    Here's two vids of Air traffic over USA... People are often surprised that there are so many flights each day.

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZUkXwR2Iu8


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9r3H4iHFZk

    Here's the UK and Europe:

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3wPQgMAll8

    World:

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1L4GUA8arY
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Useful Useful x 1