GMO's myths and truths. Heavily noted review of the claims of the GMO giants

Oh and that two edged sword thing, Monsanto "didn't" allow that study because its findings went against there product. Swords getting duller isn't it ? ;-)
If that's so, it appears that Monsanto was unable to disallow the study - it was conducted and published regardless.

Boston said:
Both rat studies found similar results. Its pretty simple. Round up gets on and into round up ready corn, end up in the food you eat. Label that crap so I and others who don't feel like eating it can better avoid it.
Do you know of any data showing how much glyphosate ends up in the edible portion of glyphosate-tolerant GM crops?
 
Soy, even the most organic natural soy is full of an estrogen mimic.

A friend and I were chatting the other night. One of her son's friends (they are both 15) was fed on soy formula, and his mom has been been mostly vegan his entire life. He has soy burgers and soy sausage and tofuturkey. At 15 he has breasts and an estrogen count like most girls. No adult male sexual characteristics at all. He has been pulled off all soy, but the doctors are unsure if he will recover. He has estrogen levels like a man about to undergo sex change surgery.

I would expect a critter fed only soy to have health issues.
 
Oh and that two edged sword thing, Monsanto "didn't" allow that study because its findings went against there product.

You cannot claim that the Seralini research did not happen, whether anyone wanted it to happen, tried to stop it, doesn't like it's results, or if it is valid. It was done and has been published. That case is closed.

Your claim was that studies were/are/will not be "allowed" is false. It was studied.

YOU pointed to it without realizing the import. Too bad.

End of story.
 
Oh and that two edged sword thing, Monsanto "didn't" allow that study because its findings went against there product. What few studies do exist outside the censorship of the GM producers seem to all point to these herbicides and pesticides having serious health effects.
Why didn't Mansanto sue Séralini and the University of Caen for breaking their patent law then? Do you expect Mansanto to go through what you perceive as banning food safety tests on its food crops and that they wouldn't sue anyone who goes ahead and does those tests anyway. It is like saying Kellogg's can't test the safety of Corn Flakes because the corn they use is Mansanto corn. You defeat your own arguments!
 
You cannot claim that the Seralini research did not happen, whether anyone wanted it to happen, tried to stop it, doesn't like it's results, or if it is valid. It was done and has been published. That case is closed.

Your claim was that studies were/are/will not be "allowed" is false. It was studied.

YOU pointed to it without realizing the import. Too bad.

End of story.
He cut his cake with his sword and is eating it too!
 
Why didn't Mansanto sue Séralini and the University of Caen for breaking their patent law then? Do you expect Mansanto to go through what you perceive as banning food safety tests on its food crops and that they wouldn't sue anyone who goes ahead and does those tests anyway. It is like saying Kellogg's can't test the safety of Corn Flakes because the corn they use is Mansanto corn. You defeat your own arguments!

I find it amusing that Boston points to the study and criticises Monsanto. Here is a study widely criticised in the EU, one were the author will not release the raw data and journalists had to sign a confidentiality agreement not to talk to other scientists when the report was first presented. Given that Boston apparently insists on non bias and academic rigour I am at a loss as to why he easliy accepts this. But then again they use the Natural News as a reliable resource ;-)
 
....

This DNA tinkering and other DNA tinkering is all a part of the process. It is meant to happen exactly as it is happening. The right response to the things that are upon the face of the earth is the upward calling that is too often skipped or ignored.

PEACE,

Bryan

Could you briefly expand on this? What's the upward calling and the 'process' that is meant to be happening?
I would just see it as the gradual accumulation of wisdom, but see nothing pre-destined about it, just cause and effect.
 
Hello Pete,
Could you briefly expand on this? What's the upward calling and the 'process' that is meant to be happening?
I would just see it as the gradual accumulation of wisdom, but see nothing pre-destined about it, just cause and effect.
You see cause and effect and my view is biblical. So these issues are occurring exactly as God has planned. That is all I will say for now until I launch a 'Try Jesus, if you don't like him, the devil will always take you back' thread :) That said, your comments belie that you are already exhibiting an overflow of Kingdom principles. Cause and effect is sew and reap. To seek wisdom is greater than gold and silver. Wisdom has two forms. One may lead to the other or not.


Solrey,


Thanks for the link and information.


Your use of bt is interesting. This is far different than gene insertion. The concern that is expressed with regards to bt cotton or corn is that there is an alteration of genetic code. Neem oil has some benefits in pest control. I may use that personally and yet see problems with genetically inserting it into a potato or a chicken. I may spray garlic on plants but I see a whole new set of issues with inserting a garlic gene into an olive tree.
If there are reactions to the bt toxin in GM crops, then gene transference has to be continually studied. We are in the 2nd inning and the behemoth is in the lead (perhaps). I am personally leaning towards alteration of human gut flora. Amino acid changes-protein expression changes, bt toxin found in blood and alterations of other genes from the inserted gene. The original argument was that bt is destroyed in the stomach, this does not appear to be the case. As for the bt gene modifying the genetics of the intestinal tract, check back as I'm sure there are going to be additional developments.


http://michaelfields.org/bacillus-thuringiensis-bugs-and-humans/


Bryan


I am not trying to counsel any of you to do anything really special except dare to think. And to dare to go with the truth. And to dare to really love completely.”
― Richard Buckminster Fuller
 
Okay thanks, I won't attempt to deconstruct your opinions unless you present them as facts.

But would like to defend myself from this...

That said, your comments belie that you are already exhibiting an overflow of Kingdom principles. Cause and effect is sew and reap. To seek wisdom is greater than gold and silver.

Carefully observing cause and effect means learning from mistakes, learning what works and what doesn't, and not just in kingdom building, in personal 'spiritual' matters as well. So it is the process of getting wisdom.
 
Greetings Soulfly.

Your quote with regards to the issue of gene insertion struck me.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson

Science is a moving target. The point in time where one says "Aha ! This is true!" is quickly replaced by a more thorough understanding. In the GMO battlefield, we are looking at bits and pieces thus far and the purveyors of trademarked food-like products are continually insisting that all is well and there are no problems. So, stay tuned! New studies will help to clarify and isolate the risks.

As for the bt gambit, bt itself is not really the concern.
A group of international scientists, working under Joint Actions of Information on GMOs, signed a letter dated April 8, 2006 in which they said that Bt toxins:… caused powerful immune responses and abnormal and excessive cell growth in the intestine of mice … Filipinos living next to Bt cornfields developed symptoms during pollination and blood tests also showed an immune response to Bt. Indian workers handling Bt cotton developed allergic responses … we must … find out if Bt genes transfer to gut bacteria like soya genes do. They could turn our internal flora into living pesticide factories.
We suspect that genetic engineering is causing trouble not because we have results from studies, which barely exist, but from the failures of experiments. Clones are not doing well. Kidney and brain malformations often kill the cloned animal. Bioengineered pigs, about to be remade into a fish delicacy, suffer from arthritis, enlarged hearts, renal disease and dermatitis. All this spoils the bioengineers’ idea that each DNA gene, like each biotech boss, orders things to be done alone without interference from anybody or anything.
But in real life, often and almost inevitably, with countless numbers of transgenic crop plants, errors crop up, causing chaos in an otherwise elegant plan or experiment. Without careful studies of those plants, we are headed for big trouble.

http://www.gmfreecymru.org/pivotal_papers/sowing_feudalism.htm

Meanwhile the experimental modified wheat is blowing down the road, through fences, and around yonder.
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/newsroom/2013/05/ge_wheat_detection.shtml

Bryan

“I am enthusiastic over humanity’s extraordinary and sometimes very timely ingenuity. If you are in a shipwreck and all the boats are gone, a piano top buoyant enough to keep you afloat that comes along makes a fortuitous life preserver. But this is not to say that the best way to design a life preserver is in the form of a piano top. I think that we are clinging to a great many piano tops in accepting yesterday’s fortuitous contrivings as constituting the only means for solving a given problem.”
― Richard Buckminster Fuller
 
Greetings Soulfly.

Your quote with regards to the issue of gene insertion struck me.



Science is a moving target. The point in time where one says "Aha ! This is true!" is quickly replaced by a more thorough understanding. In the GMO battlefield, we are looking at bits and pieces thus far and the purveyors of trademarked food-like products are continually insisting that all is well and there are no problems. So, stay tuned! New studies will help to clarify and isolate the risks.

As for the bt gambit, bt itself is not really the concern.


http://www.gmfreecymru.org/pivotal_papers/sowing_feudalism.htm

Meanwhile the experimental modified wheat is blowing down the road, through fences, and around yonder.
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/newsroom/2013/05/ge_wheat_detection.shtml

Bryan

“I am enthusiastic over humanity’s extraordinary and sometimes very timely ingenuity. If you are in a shipwreck and all the boats are gone, a piano top buoyant enough to keep you afloat that comes along makes a fortuitous life preserver. But this is not to say that the best way to design a life preserver is in the form of a piano top. I think that we are clinging to a great many piano tops in accepting yesterday’s fortuitous contrivings as constituting the only means for solving a given problem.”
― Richard Buckminster Fuller
The quote has nothing to do with gene insertion. Dr. Tyson might be a better person to debate his Quote with.

Did you even bother to read the link you provided?

The detection of this wheat variety does not pose a food safety concern. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) completed a voluntary consultation on the safety of food and feed derived from this GE glyphosate-resistant wheat variety in 2004. For the consultation, the developer provided information to FDA to support the safety of this wheat variety. FDA completed the voluntary consultation with no further questions concerning the safety of grain and forage derived from this wheat, meaning that this variety is as safe as non-GE wheat currently on the market.
Content from External Source
 
Greetings Soulfly.

Your quote with regards to the issue of gene insertion struck me.



Science is a moving target. The point in time where one says "Aha ! This is true!" is quickly replaced by a more thorough understanding. In the GMO battlefield, we are looking at bits and pieces thus far and the purveyors of trademarked food-like products are continually insisting that all is well and there are no problems. So, stay tuned! New studies will help to clarify and isolate the risks.

As for the bt gambit, bt itself is not really the concern.


http://www.gmfreecymru.org/pivotal_papers/sowing_feudalism.htm

Meanwhile the experimental modified wheat is blowing down the road, through fences, and around yonder.
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/newsroom/2013/05/ge_wheat_detection.shtml

Bryan

“I am enthusiastic over humanity’s extraordinary and sometimes very timely ingenuity. If you are in a shipwreck and all the boats are gone, a piano top buoyant enough to keep you afloat that comes along makes a fortuitous life preserver. But this is not to say that the best way to design a life preserver is in the form of a piano top. I think that we are clinging to a great many piano tops in accepting yesterday’s fortuitous contrivings as constituting the only means for solving a given problem.”
― Richard Buckminster Fuller

Where does it say that wheat is blowing down the road? As far as I can see they are only opening the investigation. How many plants are involved? What was their location? When before 2005 did the test crop get uprooted? What is the concentration of the Bt element? How many other farms are involved? Where was the seed purchased? What where the test conditions?

You are claiming that is blowing down the road. Wheat self pollinates (although around 2% of cross pollination can occur) and its seeds and pollen are heavy low in number and cannot be blown very far. The pollen in itself us only viable for around 3 hours. Cultivated wheat does not last long in the wild as it us a poor competitor and does not have the ability to cross with all other types of wheat.

Given that hybrids can lose their targetted quality after a couple of generations I wonder how dominant the Bt gene is? After all you are saying that it passed possibly through 8 generations. How are you able to claim that it us just blowing down the road when there is no evidence as yet to verify that? There could be a number of explanations that may involve human contact.

This is useful for test conditions for growing wheat http://www.rothamsted.ac.uk/Content.php?Section=AphidWheat&Page=QA
 
Where does it say that wheat is blowing down the road? As far as I can see they are only opening the investigation. How many plants are involved? What was their location?
From what I can see it is just one farm.
WASHINGTON, May 29, 2013 –The U.S. Department of Agriculture’s (USDA) Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS) announced today that test results of plant samples from an Oregon farm indicate the presence of genetically engineered (GE) glyphosate-resistant wheat plants.
Content from External Source
 
From what I can see it is just one farm.
WASHINGTON, May 29, 2013 –The U.S. Department of Agriculture’s (USDA) Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS) announced today that test results of plant samples from an Oregon farm indicate the presence of genetically engineered (GE) glyphosate-resistant wheat plants.
Content from External Source

Yeah that was my point but more as to how far from a test crop 8 or 9 years ago? I know the investigation is going to look at how many other farms may be affected. I guess they are going to have to do a great deal of checking. Is this crop from seed the farmer bought or saved from the last? If bought in they are going to have to check the sources and trail of sales. If it is from cross pollination how has it gone undetected all these years? Is there something more sinister involved? Did someone get hold of seed from a test crop and plant it later on?

The irony here though is that this is the sort of issue that I am really interested and cross pollination is one of my major concerns. However it is poor science and poor investigation to jump to conclusions at such an early stage.
 
The quote has nothing to do with gene insertion. Dr. Tyson might be a better person to debate his Quote with.

Did you even bother to read the link you provided?

Content from external source:

The detection of this wheat variety does not pose a food safety concern. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) completed a voluntary consultation on the safety of food and feed derived from this GE glyphosate-resistant wheat variety in 2004. For the consultation, the developer provided information to FDA to support the safety of this wheat variety. FDA completed the voluntary consultation with no further questions concerning the safety of grain and forage derived from this wheat, meaning that this variety is as safe as non-GE wheat currently on the market.

Yes the FDA/Big U.S.A Agriculture says that the wheat is perfectly safe. This is pretty much the entire point of this thread isn't it? They say it is safe and no different from food.
There are no GE wheat varieties approved for sale or in commercial production in the United States or elsewhere at this time.

The detection of this wheat variety does not pose a food safety concern. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) completed a voluntary consultation on the safety of food and feed derived from this GE glyphosate-resistant wheat variety in 2004. For the consultation, the developer provided information to FDA to support the safety of this wheat variety. FDA completed the voluntary consultation with no further questions concerning the safety of grain and forage derived from this wheat, meaning that this variety is as safe as non-GE wheat currently on the market.
Content from External Source
It has been 9 years since any gm wheat was grown. If this is confined to only 1 field in Oregon, I will be surprised. I suspect that there is contamination throughout several states. If the testing is done by the E.P.A or F.D.A or Monsanto, then it may just be that one farmer. No pollinators and no drifting is quite a stretch, but maybe...

This story is being picked up now by major outlets. http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...fe7abe-c95e-11e2-8da7-d274bc611a47_story.html and http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-30/genetically-modified-wheat-isnt-supposed-to-exist-dot-so-what-is-it-doing-in-oregon

So what is the actual story line for the wheat? Why has it never been approved? What were the issues involved? Monsanto does a 16 state trial and does not move forward after that? Appears it is just an issue of how Japan, Russia, European Countries and many other Countries want nothing to do with gene inserted food, in this case wheat. http://www.worc.org/userfiles/file/Genetically Modified Wheat.pdf
http://www.worc.org/userfiles/WORC release FarmAid 09_08_04.pdf
So when the people don't want gm wheat and farmers don't want it, I guess then just go to work to pay off congressmen and senators. Give them a nice retirement consulting "job" along with a home in Costa Rica and you can just have it voted through. Contribute enough and your Executive will be the head of the F.D.A.

Somehow not at all surprising knowing the history of GM problems (see Starlink and multiple other examples);
Here is the Australian modified wheat issue;
http://safefoodfoundation.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Heinemann-Expert-Scientific-Opinion.pdf

http://healthimpactnews.com/2012/scientists-warn-of-gm-wheat-threat/
http://safefoodfoundation.org/food-campaigns/genetically-modified-foods/projects/gm-wheat/

Here are 13 products Monsanto has brought to market.

1 – Saccharin
2 – PCBs
3 – Polystyrene
4 – Atom bomb and nuclear weapons
5 – DDT
6 – Dioxin
7 – Agent Orange
8 – Petroleum-Based Fertilizer
9 – RoundUp
10 – Aspartame (NutraSweet / Equal)
11 – Bovine Growth Hormone (rBGH)
12 – Genetically Modified Crops / GMOs
13 – Terminator Seeds


Peace,

Bryan
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes the FDA/Big U.S.A Agriculture says that the wheat is perfectly safe. This is pretty much the entire point of this thread isn't it? They say it is safe and no different from food.
There are no GE wheat varieties approved for sale or in commercial production in the United States or elsewhere at this time.

The detection of this wheat variety does not pose a food safety concern. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) completed a voluntary consultation on the safety of food and feed derived from this GE glyphosate-resistant wheat variety in 2004. For the consultation, the developer provided information to FDA to support the safety of this wheat variety. FDA completed the voluntary consultation with no further questions concerning the safety of grain and forage derived from this wheat, meaning that this variety is as safe as non-GE wheat currently on the market.
Content from External Source
It has been 9 years since any gm wheat was grown. If this is confined to only 1 field in Oregon, I will be surprised. I suspect that there is contamination throughout several states. If the testing is done by the E.P.A or F.D.A or Monsanto, then it may just be that one farmer. No pollinators and no drifting is quite a stretch, but maybe...

This story is being picked up now by major outlets. http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...fe7abe-c95e-11e2-8da7-d274bc611a47_story.html and http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-30/genetically-modified-wheat-isnt-supposed-to-exist-dot-so-what-is-it-doing-in-oregon

So what is the actual story line for the wheat? Why has it never been approved? What were the issues involved? Monsanto does a 16 state trial and does not move forward after that? Appears it is just an issue of how Japan, Russia, European Countries and many other Countries want nothing to do with gene inserted food, in this case wheat. http://www.worc.org/userfiles/file/Genetically Modified Wheat.pdf
http://www.worc.org/userfiles/WORC release FarmAid 09_08_04.pdf
So when the people don't want gm wheat and farmers don't want it, I guess then just go to work to pay off congressmen and senators. Give them a nice retirement consulting "job" along with a home in Costa Rica and you can just have it voted through. Contribute enough and your Executive will be the head of the F.D.A.

Somehow not at all surprising knowing the history of GM problems (see Starlink and multiple other examples);
Here is the Australian modified wheat issue;
http://safefoodfoundation.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Heinemann-Expert-Scientific-Opinion.pdf

http://healthimpactnews.com/2012/scientists-warn-of-gm-wheat-threat/
http://safefoodfoundation.org/food-campaigns/genetically-modified-foods/projects/gm-wheat/

Here are 13 products Monsanto has brought to market.

1 – Saccharin
2 – PCBs
3 – Polystyrene
4 – Atom bomb and nuclear weapons
5 – DDT
6 – Dioxin
7 – Agent Orange
8 – Petroleum-Based Fertilizer
9 – RoundUp
10 – Aspartame (NutraSweet / Equal)
11 – Bovine Growth Hormone (rBGH)
12 – Genetically Modified Crops / GMOs
13 – Terminator Seeds


Peace,

Bryan

They dropped the wheat because no one wanted it. End of story. I do not understand what you mean by bribing politicians to get it passed. It never was.

What relevance has a list of Monsanto products got to do with anything? Didn't Searle develop aspartame?

Anyway. Terminator seeds. They where developed by the US Gov and another company. They have never been brought to market and Monsanto has stated they don't plan on marketing them. According to wiki there is a Worldwide moratorium on them. Ironically if the gene was present there would be no risk of crop contamination. If they used the gene why do they still make farmers sign an agreement not to save seed?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_use_restriction_technology

The idea of the thread is separate fact from myth yet all that seems to be presented as truth are myths and speculations.
 
You cannot claim that the Seralini research did not happen, whether anyone wanted it to happen, tried to stop it, doesn't like it's results, or if it is valid. It was done and has been published. That case is closed.

Your claim was that studies were/are/will not be "allowed" is false. It was studied.

YOU pointed to it without realizing the import. Too bad.

End of story.

Yikes, classic straw man argument, your just not comprehending the problem with censorship, OK one more time from the top. This monsanto user agreement clearly defines that no seed shall be used in any research whatsoever. http://www.monsanto.ca/ourcommitments/Documents/TUG_English.pdf see pg 31 terms and conditions.

However, we know "censored" research is being conducted, by virtue of it being required to be vetted through monsanto, specified here.

from
http://www.globalresearch.ca/gmo-sca...n-humans/14570

One of the great mysteries surrounding the spread of GMO plants around the world since the first commercial crops were released in the early 1990’s in the USA and Argentina has been the absence of independent scientific studies of possible long-term effects of a diet of GMO plants on humans or even rats. Now it has come to light the real reason. The GMO agribusiness companies like Monsanto, BASF, Pioneer, Syngenta and others prohibit independent research.

An editorial in the respected American scientific monthly magazine, Scientific American, August 2009 reveals the shocking and alarming reality behind the proliferation of GMO products throughout the food chain of the planet since 1994. There are no independent scientific studies published in any reputed scientific journal in the world for one simple reason. It is impossible to independently verify that GMO crops such as Monsanto Roundup Ready Soybeans or MON8110 GMO maize perform as the company claims, or that, as the company also claims, that they have no harmful side effects because the GMO companies forbid such tests!

That’s right. As a precondition to buy seeds, either to plant for crops or to use in research study, Monsanto and the gene giant companies must first sign an End User Agreement with the company. For the past decade, the period when the greatest proliferation of GMO seeds in agriculture has taken place, Monsanto, Pioneer (DuPont) and Syngenta require anyone buying their GMO seeds to sign an agreement that explicitly forbids that the seeds be used for any independent research. Scientists are prohibited from testing a seed to explore under what conditions it flourishes or even fails. They cannot compare any characteristics of the GMO seed with any other GMO or non-GMO seeds from another company. Most alarming, they are prohibited from examining whether the genetically modified crops lead to unintended side-effects either in the environment or in animals or humans.
The only research which is permitted to be published in reputable scientific peer-reviewed journals are studies which have been pre-approved by Monsanto and the other industry GMO firms.

The entire process by which GMO seeds have been approved in the United States, beginning with the proclamation by then President George H.W. Bush in 1992, on request of Monsanto, that no special Government tests of safety for GMO seeds would be conducted because they were deemed by the President to be “substantially equivalent” to non-GMO seeds,

I guess I could have specified "uncensored" research, but then, censored research isn't really research at all now is it ;-)

Oviously, if you read up on the Seralini study, he must have vetted his process and had it approved for research through Monsanto. Which then requires his findings to be again vetted through them IE made available for censorship. Monsanto subsequently disproved his findings for publication, at which point the work could not be submitted for peer review. So apparently Seralini didn't and just published an abbreviated version minus some key elements, which is likely why he refuses to divulge further information, he'd get sued.

I also find it curious that Monsanto must have approved his study parameters at one point in order for him to get there permission to move forward at all, yet now they and there PR people are complaining about his study's design ?

What is most interesting is that complain as you might about the possible errors in the study it is remarkable in that its findings were so startlingly similar to a previous study that was reviewed, corrected and published, under a much older legal considerations. See http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/2003/Roundup-Glyphosate-Teratogenic30apr03.htm ( Oh and I might add that the peer review process often results in corrections being made before a work is accepted for publication, something Seralini was unfortunately prevented from doing )

Both studies were on rats
Both studies tested glyphosate GMO
Both studies were longer term
Both studies looked at multiple health effects
Both studies found cancerous reactions and or malformations
Both studies found cancerous reactions and or malformations proportional to the exposure rate
Both studies found similar proportional rates of cancerous reactions or malformations

stunning if you ask me. I've done my share of research and if I saw that in any pair of studies paralelling one another so closely I'd be seriously thinking there's a link.

I'm going to stick to my guns on this one. Oh I'm sure I'll make an error or two based on the lack of uncensored purely scientific independent information available for me to analyze But based on what I can find, if I were a betting man, I'd bet your better off not eating GM foods.

From a scientifically objective point, I'd have to question why research into GM food safety is so closely guarded, why what science there is, is so heavily censored and why these products where considered substantially equivalent when in fact they are technologically altered life forms combining species that could not otherwise transfer there genetic material.
 
Oh and someone mentioned BT as being an organic pesticide. Yup sure "was" right up until someone embedded it into the plant itself such that you could no longer wash it off. Being on the surface vs being within the tissues are two completely different things. And its not really all that safe to eat.
See http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...sfHSsw&usg=AFQjCNGmXJDn4Ehi1NG5mKLyBGOmEzHdDw
if you think its not getting into the food supply check this
from http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...xqVmPQ&usg=AFQjCNFFNW8RabA1LgrDhaXw11m6xRgfiw

Doctors at Sherbrooke University Hospital in Quebec found the corn's Bt-toxin in the blood of pregnant women and their babies, as well as in non-pregnant women.i (Specifically, the toxin was identified in 93% of 30 pregnant women, 80% of umbilical blood in their babies, and 67% of 39 non-pregnant women.) The study has been accepted for publication in the peer reviewed journal Reproductive Toxicology.
According to the UK Daily Mail, this study, which "appears to blow a hole in" safety claims, "has triggered calls for a ban on imports and a total overhaul of the safety regime for genetically modified (GM) crops and food." Organizations from England to New Zealand are now calling for investigations and for GM crops to be halted due to the serious implications of this finding.

Unless these ladies were out there eating silage along side the cows and pigs they most likely got into it eating BT corn, just as the study specifies. But of course independent and censorship free studies would have to be allowed by Monsanto before that can really be confirmed, but I find it pretty unlikely that any large number of pregnant woman are sprinkling organic pesticides on there cornflakes.

In a nut shell it would appear some of you guys just like to argue, to which I can only respond, "have at it", but the preponderance of uncensored data suggests GM foods are unsafe for consumption, more and more the GM embedded toxins are being found within human tissues and there is a serious need for additional independent and uncensored studies.

Eat up kids, but I'll stick to products that are GMO free, and continue to fight for labeling. We at least have the right to know whats in our food.
 
Seralini did not need to clear things with Monsanto as he did not feed the seeds to rats. The agreement does not cover the end product. if it does show it. All he did was grow the seeds he did not experiment on them. If he did needed permission it would be in the write up. I can find no reference to it.
 
I found this open letter to Science News to be quite interesting.

from
http://independentsciencenews.org/health/seralini-and-science-nk603-rat-study-roundup/

2) The Role of the Science Media. An important but often unnoticed aspect of this intimidation is that it frequently occurs in concert with the science media (Ermakova, 2007; Heinemann and Traavik, 2007; Latham and Wilson, 2007). Reporting of the Seralini paper in arguably the most prestigious segments of the science media: Science, the New York Times, New Scientist, and the Washington Post uniformly failed to “balance” criticism of the research, with even minimal coverage of support for the Seralini paper (Carmen, 2012; Enserink, 2012; MacKenzie, 2012; Pollack, 2012). Nevertheless, less well-resourced media outlets, such as the UK Daily Mail appeared to have no trouble finding a positive scientific opinion on the same study (Poulter, 2012)

3) Misleading Media Reporting. A key pattern with risk-finding studies is that the criticisms voiced in the media are often red herrings, misleading, or untruthful. Thus, the use of common methodologies was portrayed as indicative of shoddy science when used by Seralini et al. (2012) but not when used by industry (see refs above and Science Media Centre, 2012). The use of red herring arguments appears intended to sow doubt and confusion among non-experts. For example, Tom Sanders of Kings College, London was quoted as saying: “This strain of rat is very prone to mammary tumors particularly when food intake is not restricted” (Hirschler and Kelland, 2012 ). He failed to point out, or was unaware, that most industry feeding studies have used Sprague-Dawley rats (e.g. Hammond et al., 1996, 2004, 2006; MacKenzie et al., 2007). In these and other industry studies (e.g. Malley et al. 2007), feed intake was unrestricted. Sanders’ comments are important because they were widely quoted and because they were part of an orchestrated response to the Seralini study by the Science Media Centre of the British Royal Institution. The Science Media Centre has a long history of quelling GMO controversies and its funders include numerous companies that produce GMOs and pesticides.

6) Conclusion: When those with a vested interest attempt to sow unreasonable doubt around inconvenient results, or when governments exploit political opportunities by picking and choosing from scientific evidence, they jeopardize public confidence in scientific methods and institutions, and also put their own citizenry at risk. Safety testing, science-based regulation, and the scientific process itself, depend crucially on widespread trust in a body of scientists devoted to the public interest and professional integrity. If instead, the starting point of a scientific product assessment is an approval process rigged in favour of the applicant, backed up by systematic suppression of independent scientists working in the public interest, then there can never be an honest, rational or scientific debate.

The Authors: Susan Bardocz (4, Arato Street, Budapest, 1121 Hungary); Ann Clark (University of Guelph, ret.); Stanley Ewen (Consultant Histopathologist, Grampian University Hospital); Michael Hansen (Consumers Union); Jack Heinemann (University of Canterbury); Jonathan Latham (The Bioscience Resource Project); Arpad Pusztai (4, Arato Street, Budapest, 1121 Hungary); David Schubert (The Salk Institute); Allison Wilson (The Bioscience Resource Project)

I might add that the signatories of this letter are endless, I'd post it but it'd just take up to much space

also within that letter are a number of toxicology studies that link glyphosate to harmful side effects (Gaivão et al., 2012; Kelly et al., 2010; Paganelli et al., 2010; Romano et al., 2012), as reviewed by Antoniou et al. (2010).
 
I found this open letter to Science News to be quite interesting.

from
http://independentsciencenews.org/health/seralini-and-science-nk603-rat-study-roundup/







I might add that the signatories of this letter are endless, I'd post it but it'd just take up to much space

also within that letter are a number of toxicology studies that link glyphosate to harmful side effects (Gaivão et al., 2012; Kelly et al., 2010; Paganelli et al., 2010; Romano et al., 2012), as reviewed by Antoniou et al. (2010).

Good work.

Since this is a thread about the myths and truths in general, what do you make of the Monsanto response that these facts don't make their work and it's results any more dangerous than historic methods and products?
 
What has Glyphosphate got to do with it. The ADI, LD50 and MRL's are well documented and have been researched since its outset. In fact some think it is not Glyphosate but other inert ingredients that are the issue.

So anyway. Can you show me where Monsanto have interfered with Seralinis work? His write up makes no mention of their involvement, or needing their permissions.
 
From the Methods and Material section of the report. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278691512005637

2. Materials and methods

2.1. Ethics

The experimental protocol was conducted in accordance with the regulations of our ethics in an animal care unit authorized by the French Ministries of Agriculture and Research (Agreement Number A35-288-1). Animal experiments were performed according to ethical guidelines of animal experimentations (CEE 86/609 regulation). Concerning field studies of plant species, no specific permits were required, nor for the locations/activities. The maize grown (MON-00603-6 commonly named NK603) was authorized for unconfined release into the environment and use as a livestock feed by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (Decision Document 2002-35). We confirm that the location is not privately-owned or protected in any way and that the field studies did not involve endangered or protected species. The GM maize was authorized for import into the European Union (CE 258/97 regulation).
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No mention is made of permissions needed by Monsanto in the methodology or in the later acknowledgements

Conflict of Interest

The authors declare that there are no conflicts of interest.



Acknowledgments

We thank Michael Antoniou for English assistance and constructive comments on the manuscript, as well as Herrade Hemmerdinger for proofreading. We gratefully acknowledge the Association CERES, the Foundation “Charles Leopold Mayer pour le Progrès de l’Homme”, the French Ministry of Research, and CRIIGEN for their major support.
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I can find no article where Seralini states that he has had to withdraw data under pressure by Monsanto. I can find reference to with holding data from the EFSA

http://www.nature.com/news/hyped-gm-maize-study-faces-growing-scrutiny-1.11566

Meanwhile, Séralini says that he won’t make any data available to the EFSA and the BfR until the EFSA makes public all the data under-pinning its 2003 approval of NK603 maize for human consumption and animal feed. He has also criticized the EFSA, and most other detractors of his study, for alleged conflicts of interest, claiming that he is “being attacked in an extremely dishonest fashion by lobbies passing themselves off as the scientific community”.
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What I find interesting is how he released his paper. Sounds a little shadey to me

Yet Séralini has promoted the cancer results as the study’s major finding, through a tightly orchestrated media offensive that began last month and included the release of a book and a film about the work. Only a select group of journalists (not including Nature) was given access to the embargoed paper, and each writer was required to sign a highly unusual confidentiality agreement, seen by Nature, which prevented them from discussing the paper with other scientists before the embargo expired.
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There are a number of open letters at the start of the actual paper that are worth reading.
 
Good work.

Since this is a thread about the myths and truths in general, what do you make of the Monsanto response that these facts don't make their work and it's results any more dangerous than historic methods and products?

I guess I'd respond by noting that the protocols used in the Seralini study were the same used in Monsanto's own rat study except Seralini studied the rats for there entire life span rather than just 90 days. A time period that may not be sufficient to show adverse health effects.

from
http://www.globalresearch.ca/stench-of-eu-corruption-in-monsanto-gmo-whitewash/5316294
Significantly, following a long but finally successful legal battle to force Monsanto to release the details of its own study of the safety of its own NK603 maize (corn), Seralini and colleagues reproduced a 2004 Monsanto study published in the same journal and used by the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) for its 2009 positive evaluation of NK603.

Seralini’s group based their experiment on the same protocol as the Monsanto study but, critically, were testing more parameters more frequently. And the rats were studied for much longer—their full two year average life-time instead of just 90 days in the Monsanto study. The long time span proved critical. The first tumors only appeared 4 to7 months into the study. In industry’s earlier 90-day study on the same GMO maize Monsanto NK603, signs of toxicity were seen but were dismissed as “not biologically meaningful” by industry and EFSA alike. It seems they were indeed very biologically meaningful.

The study was also done with the highest number of rats ever measured in a standard GMO diet study. They tested also “for the first time 3 doses (rather than two in the usual 90 day long protocols) of the Roundup-tolerant NK603 GMO maize alone, the GMO maize treated with Roundup, and Roundup alone at very low environmentally relevant doses starting below the range of levels permitted by regulatory authorities in drinking water and in GM feed.” [1]

Their findings were more than alarming. The Seralini study concluded, “In females, all treated groups died 2–3 times more than controls, and more rapidly. This difference was visible in 3 male groups fed GMOs…Females developed large mammary tumors almost always more often than and before controls; the pituitary was the second most disabled organ; the sex hormonal balance was modified by GMO and Roundup treatments. In treated males, liver congestions and necrosis were 2.5–5.5 times higher. This pathology was confirmed by optic and transmission electron microscopy. Marked and severe kidney nephropathies were also generally 1.3–2.3 greater. Males presented 4 times more large palpable tumors than controls…” [2]

Four times meant four hundred percent more large tumors in GMO fed rats than in normally fed ones of the control group. Because rats are mammals, their systems should react to chemicals or, in this case GMO corn treated with Monsanto Roundup chemical herbicide, in a similar way to those of a human test subject. [3]

I'd also question the scientific objectivity of Monsanto's response given that their credibility and financial wellbeing hinges directly on these controversial health issues.

From
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...Ml7Dgg&usg=AFQjCNG3oxVPR1Tn3jFOnzn2JlltSkgQ4w

Other scientists, many or all with undisclosed ties to Monsanto, immediately criticized the French study. I don't know who's right, but the disputed study followed rats for their full two-year life span, not for just a few months. Earlier studies relied on by Monsanto apparently took the shorter view.
The most disturbing thing is that within months former Monsanto employee Dr. Richard Goodman suddenly held a newly created position ("associate editor for biotechnology") at the journal. He'll be in charge of deciding which biotechnology studies get published. Although usually those journals promote from within, and slowly, Dr. Goodman apparently had no previous tie to the journal. Monsanto ain't gonna have to worry about food and chemical toxicology anymore.
This is no isolated incident. Monsanto has consistently used its astonishing political clout (with both parties) and its wealth to evade objective scrutiny. Initial approval of GMO seeds in the U.S. came in a proclamation by the first President Bush (at Monsanto's request) that no special government safety tests would be done because the president deemed GMO seeds "substantially equivalent" to non-GMO seeds; Monsanto's contracts for the sale of seeds flatly prohibit use of the seeds for independent research; and recently Congress slipped into emergency legislation on another subject a law allowing farmers to plant genetically modified crops even if a court orders suspension of planting pending environmental review! The government has still done no testing of the GMO seeds.

Determining myth from fact concerning these GMO foods requires an understating of the censorship surrounding the majority of the information being presented ( provided by industry sources ) vs the relatively few studies of any kind independently conducted by reputable sources.

I'm all about the scientific process, but I'm not seeing a reasonable attempt to follow that process by the agro industry concerning GMO products. A fact which gives me pause when considering what I'm going to have for dinner.
 
Oh and someone mentioned BT as being an organic pesticide. Yup sure "was" right up until someone embedded it into the plant itself such that you could no longer wash it off. Being on the surface vs being within the tissues are two completely different things. And its not really all that safe to eat.
See http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...sfHSsw&usg=AFQjCNGmXJDn4Ehi1NG5mKLyBGOmEzHdDw
if you think its not getting into the food supply check this
from http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...xqVmPQ&usg=AFQjCNFFNW8RabA1LgrDhaXw11m6xRgfiw



Unless these ladies were out there eating silage along side the cows and pigs they most likely got into it eating BT corn, just as the study specifies. But of course independent and censorship free studies would have to be allowed by Monsanto before that can really be confirmed, but I find it pretty unlikely that any large number of pregnant woman are sprinkling organic pesticides on there cornflakes.

In a nut shell it would appear some of you guys just like to argue, to which I can only respond, "have at it", but the preponderance of uncensored data suggests GM foods are unsafe for consumption, more and more the GM embedded toxins are being found within human tissues and there is a serious need for additional independent and uncensored studies.

Eat up kids, but I'll stick to products that are GMO free, and continue to fight for labeling. We at least have the right to know whats in our food.

Bt still is an organic pesticide and I'm gonna spray it all over the place today, bwaaahahahahaha. It's pretty widely used on organic crops and it's a common soil bacteria so there are more sources of Bt found in humans than just GMO's. And for the record, we stick to all organic/non-GMO foods, but not because of all the bunk associated with GMO's.

There are a lot of different ways for Bt proteins to get into our food

Furthermore, two strains from pasteurized full fat milks and three strains from green-tea beverages were indistinguishable from the B. thuringiensis subsp. kurstaki strains isolated from commercial biopesticides (Kaiyan, Qiangdi, Lvpuan and Sutai), suggesting the residual occurrences of B. thuringiensis from biopesticides in food and beverages.
[..]
Aerial applications of Foray 48B, which contains Bacillus thuringiensis strain HD1, were carried out on 9 to 10 May, 19 to 21 May, and 8 to 9 June 1999 to control European gypsy moth (Lymantria dispar) populations in Victoria, British Columbia, Canada. A major assessment of the health impact of B. thuringiensis subsp. kurstaki was conducted by the Office of the Medical Health Officer of the Capital Health Region during this period. Environmental (air and water) and human (nasal swab) samples, collected before and after aerial applications of Foray 48B, both in the spray zone and outside of the spray zone, were analyzed for the presence of strain HD1-like bacteria. Random amplified polymorphic DNA analysis, cry gene-specific PCR, and dot blot DNA hybridization techniques were used to screen over 11,000 isolates of bacteria. We identified bacteria with genetic patterns consistent with those of B. thuringiensis subsp. kurstaki HD1 in 9,102 of 10,659 (85.4%) isolates obtained from the air samples, 13 of 440 (2.9%) isolates obtained from the water samples, and 131 of 171 (76.6%) isolates from the nasal swab samples. These analyses suggest that B. thuringiensis subsp. kurstaki HD1-like bacteria were present both in the environment and in the human population of Victoria prior to aerial applications of Foray 48B. The presence of B. thuringiensis subsp. kurstaki HD1-like bacteria in human nasal passages increased significantly after the application of Foray 48B, both inside and outside the spray zone.
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Here's an analysis of Aris and LeBlanc that notes the deficiencies in the choice of test used to detect the presence of Bt, among other problems with the paper of which the assumption that GMO's are the only possible source of Bt in humans is one, as refuted above.

http://www.biofortified.org/2012/10/bt-in-blood/

The ELISA kit used by Aris and LeBlanc to detect Bt was made by a company called Agdia (as described in section 2.4. of their paper). The kit was created and tested to detect Bt in plant tissues (Agdia doesn’t make any kits for animal tissues). There’s a lot of reasons why such a kit might not work on mammalian tissues. For example, the antibodies might cross-react with proteins found in mammals that aren’t found in plants.
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Compare the testing methodology used by Aris and LeBlanc to some of the methods used in other studies as noted in the first link above.

Random amplified polymorphic DNA analysis and plasmid profiling indicated that 23 of the 50 B. thuringiensis strains were of the same subtype as B. thuringiensis strains used as commercial bioinsecticides.
[..]
All strains were characterized by a serotyping test, SDS-PAGE, random amplified polymorphic DNA, and enterotoxic gene PCR analysis.
[..]
Random amplified polymorphic DNA analysis, cry gene-specific PCR, and dot blot DNA hybridization techniques were used to screen over 11,000 isolates of bacteria.
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Compared with the above methodologies I have to wonder what Aris and LeBlanc were thinking when they chose a single, simple test appropriate for plant tissue only.

More info on Bt:

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/24d-captan/bt-ext.html
 
I can see problems with any animal fed only soy products. Soy, even the most organic, natural soy has estrogen like actions. Using hamsters for the test subject seems to be a 'rigged' test, since ordinary soy will cause fertility issues

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=soybean-fertility-hormone-isoflavones-genistein

Reading back through I can see were we all have room to accept that this is going to be an organic process, disentangling the myriad of conflicting information I'm sure we all find when researching this issue. For instance. This statement would be entirely accurate except that the study, which does appear to follow typical scientific protocols, used multiple test subjects and a control group. I'd recommend reading the material provided before discounting the possibility that control groups were fed both on Soy and non soy diets in order to baseline the findings.

See
http://naturalsociety.com/genetically-modified-soy-linked-to-sterility-and-infant-mortality/

Russian biologist Alexey V. Surov and his team fed three generations of hamsters varying diets (one without soy, one with non-GM soy, one with GMO soy, and the final with higher amounts of GMO soy). By the third generation, the pups from the fourth group suffered a high mortality rate and most of the adults were infertile or sterile.

Earlier in 2010, Surov co-authored a paper in Doklady Biological Sciences, recording the incidence of hair growing in recessed pouches in the mouths of hamsters, most prominently in those of third-generation hamsters fed GM soy. “This pathology may be exacerbated by elements of the food that are absent in natural food, such as genetically modified (GM) ingredients (GM soybean or maize meal) or contaminants (pesticides, mycotoxins, heavy metals, etc.).”


Just five years earlier, Irina Ermakova (also with the Russian National Academy of Sciences) noted in her study that within three weeks, over half of the babies from mother rats fed GM soy died—over five times the mortality rate in the non-GMO soy control group. The pups from the GM group were also smaller. Later, Ermakova fed all the rats in her laboratory a GM soy diet. Two months later, the infant mortality rate reached 55 percent. The testicles of male rats fed a GM diet, where once pink, turned blue.
 
Yeah that was my point but more as to how far from a test crop 8 or 9 years ago? I know the investigation is going to look at how many other farms may be affected. I guess they are going to have to do a great deal of checking. Is this crop from seed the farmer bought or saved from the last? If bought in they are going to have to check the sources and trail of sales. If it is from cross pollination how has it gone undetected all these years? Is there something more sinister involved? Did someone get hold of seed from a test crop and plant it later on?

The irony here though is that this is the sort of issue that I am really interested and cross pollination is one of my major concerns. However it is poor science and poor investigation to jump to conclusions at such an early stage.
I cannot see how this wheat (or any hybrid seed) could have been blown into fields and then proliferated for at least 7 seasons through seed saving. The last time gm was found in a field it was not supposed to be in, it was there because of a scrupulous farmer. There could also have been a order mix up or seeds got put where they shouldn't have. Jumping to conclusions so far hasn't panned out for the anti-gm crowd though.
 
I cannot see how this wheat (or any hybrid seed) could have been blown into fields and then proliferated for at least 7 seasons through seed saving. The last time gm was found in a field it was not supposed to be in, it was there because of a scrupulous farmer. There could also have been a order mix up or seeds got put where they shouldn't have. Jumping to conclusions so far hasn't panned out for the anti-gm crowd though.

I was thinking how much the RR resistance would be diluted after 7 or more seasons as well.
 
Hello !

Originally Posted by electrojet
Here are 13 products Monsanto has brought to market.

4 – Atom bomb and nuclear weapons
Let's have another thread where you present the evidence for this claim please Bryan.

Monsanto worked to develop nuclear weapons here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto or here for a more replete listing of the carnage that Monsanto has brought forth http://gmo-awareness.com/2011/05/12/monsanto-dirty-dozen/
Monsanto exec. Charles Allen Thomas who was present at the first testing of the A-Bomb.

The issue with GM foods is interruption of normal gene and protein sequences throughout the food. So much so, that it has been compared to taking a book and re-arranging all the pages and all the chapters of the book. I personally prefer reading books in order.

There is zero doubt in my mind that the current technology will eventually be banned. There is no shading it or spinning it. Gene insertion is damaging. It is not real food.

Very interesting times ! Time to notice that the World and the power structures of do not have the answers.

Bryan

“Faith is much better than belief. Belief is when someone else does the thinking.”
― Buckminster Fuller

“Whenever I draw a circle, I immediately want to step out of it.”
― Buckminster Fuller

“If humanity does not opt for integrity we are through completely. It is absolutely touch and go. Each one of us could make the difference.”
― Buckminster Fuller

“When I was born, humanity was 95 per cent illiterate. Since I’ve been born, the population has doubled and that total population is now 65 per cent literate. That’s a gain of 130-fold of the literacy. When humanity is primarily illiterate, it needs leaders to understand and get the information and deal with it. When we are at the point where the majority of humans them-selves are literate, able to get the information, we’re in an entirely new relationship to Universe. We are at the point where the integrity of the individual counts and not what the political leadership or the religious leadership says to do.”
― Buckminster Fuller


“Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong reasons.”
― Buckminster Fuller
 
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But GM plant uses are not just for food so they are here to stay. We have been using non plant GM technology for decades especially in medicine.
 
The issue with GM foods is interruption of normal gene and protein sequences throughout the food.
The interruption of normal gene and protein sequences happen when scientist develop hybrid seeds, the only difference is they manipulate the entire genome instead of just one or two genes. Manipulating the entire genome in a trial and error sort of way seems silly to me. Also the methods of producing hybrid seeds sound very scary yet no one seems to mind those. It also happens naturally in nature through cross pollination.
http://www.agriquest.info/index.php/methods-for-hybrid-seed-produciton
 
well looks like the court system found at least one outfit guilty of libel in regards to Seralini and his rat study

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...m7fesA&usg=AFQjCNEq9MUgr6WUGrGYXod5K3JAseH5PQ
This is not a court case against Mansanto.
Leading French researcher on the impacts of GMOs Gilles-Eric Séralini has won the court case against Marc Fellous of the Association Française des Biotechnologies Végétales (AFBV) for libel. Fellous was convicted to the symbolic fine of 1 euro for damages.
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It is a defamation suit.
 
The interruption of normal gene and protein sequences happen when scientist develop hybrid seeds, the only difference is they manipulate the entire genome instead of just one or two genes. Manipulating the entire genome in a trial and error sort of way seems silly to me. Also the methods of producing hybrid seeds sound very scary yet no one seems to mind those. It also happens naturally in nature through cross pollination.
http://www.agriquest.info/index.php/methods-for-hybrid-seed-produciton

absolutely false, incorporating genomes across entire kingdoms is an entirely new and unique process of modern science. The natural process through selective breeding incorporates genes only from at the least similar species, even then the offspring are typically sterile, mules for example

this is a classically and entirely disingeniousness argument that was discussed/debunked in my very first post.

This point is crucial to understanding for instance the difference between spraying BT "on" crops vs infusing BT "into" crops. The genetic structure is entirely compromised and numerous unexpected and possibly deleterious health effects are being discovered with each new independent study. Although there are far to few of them to offset the mountains of questionable industry studies that flood the information base.
 
absolutely false, incorporating genomes across entire kingdoms is an entirely new and unique process of modern science. The natural process through selective breeding incorporates genes only from at the least similar species, even then the offspring are typically sterile, mules for example

this is a classically and entirely disingeniousness argument that was discussed/debunked in my very first post.

This point is crucial to understanding for instance the difference between spraying BT "on" crops vs infusing BT "into" crops. The genetic structure is entirely compromised and numerous unexpected and possibly deleterious health effects are being discovered with each new independent study. Although there are far to few of them to offset the mountains of questionable industry studies that flood the information base.

In terns of molecular biology 1973 is ages ago.
 
absolutely false, incorporating genomes across entire kingdoms is an entirely new and unique process of modern science. The natural process through selective breeding incorporates genes only from at the least similar species, even then the offspring are typically sterile, mules for example

this is a classically and entirely a disingeniousness argument that was discussed/debunked in my very first post.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070308220454.htm
http://biotechnology-genetic-humancells.blogspot.com/2009/07/interspecies-gene-transfer.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC106609/
All discussing inter species gene transfer.
 
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