1. Belfrey

    Belfrey Senior Member

    If anyone has time to attend next Monday, Global Skywatch's live phone/online meeting is featuring a guest who claims to have sampled directly from trails, with "interesting results."

    Interesting that his interest include "persistent contrails" - makes him somewhat unorthodox in circles where a common claim is that there is no such thing.
     
  2. FreiZeitGeist

    FreiZeitGeist Senior Member

    I have an eye on them since 2 days. I didn´t want to cook this to hot, because there is a money-campaign running that i doesn´t want to support

    This is their Project to get 25.000 to finish the movie:
    http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/overcast

    Note: He seems to to take a neutral position, but on his twitter-acc he asked AlexJones, David Icke and all the well-known Chemtrail-Guys etc. for support:

    https://twitter.com/Overcast13

    temp.

    Take a look who he is following...

    temp.


    This Project has also a Account on Facebook full with the well-known Chemtrailstandards like Cloud-Seeding etc...

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/OVERCAST/142678639222057

    With the money he gets, he claims to realize a "final fligth" with measurements direct from the trails and complete analysis. This ist calculated to be around 7.000$

    ... I thougth, that´s a good idea. But regarding the Sphere sourrounding this project, witch ist 100% chemtrail-believed, i don´t trust this movie-maker...

    Maybe he will fly with his rented Research-Aircraft around the world until he find some region with 10-20 ppm Aluminium in the air and will publish this as the great evidence for chemtrails.
     
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  3. FreiZeitGeist

    FreiZeitGeist Senior Member

    This is what makes me so suspicius.

    In the Trailer to the Movie he is showing how a german research-Aircraft takes probes from the Contrail



    The scene he used seems to be from the german research-Aircraft "Falcon-20" by the DLR and seems to me to be copied (stolen) from a youth TV-broadkasting named "kopfball" about contrails and their influence to climate.



    (sorry, it´s in german, but it is full of pictures taken on a measurement-fly of this scientific aircraft, interesting to look for all, who wants to know how real Contrail-Science look alike)

    Back to the point:

    If he has intersting results, why he is collecting money for a "final fligth"?!

    I´m too tired to search the exact scene, but if he argues "His team has sampled chemtrail plumes in the air" - I´m very sceptical.

    Why does he need money for the "last fligth" and Analysis if he used old TV-Broadcasts for his trailer?
     
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  4. Belfrey

    Belfrey Senior Member

    Indeed, this would be the bombshell that the "chemtrails" community has been waiting for (yet oddly, reluctant to go after). If he has convincing results, I can't imagine why he would need to keep everyone in suspense.
     
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  5. Ross Marsden

    Ross Marsden Senior Member


    I have looked through both videos. The clip used in the promotion video at 1:40 does not appear in the educational video.
    However, it is the same aircraft. You can see the detail of the probe from the same view point at 7:46.

    The clip in the promo video is from the experiment referred to on pages 17 and 18 in this presentation http://www.uni-leipzig.de/~meteo/en/forschung/Topic2_Contrails.pdf
    about DLR CONCERT "A380 contrail case study" dated 19 Nov 2008.
    I can find no other reference to that study, or the video scene.
     
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  6. FreiZeitGeist

    FreiZeitGeist Senior Member

    Thanks for your Corrections!

    It was more a kind of feeling "I have seen these pictures before somewhere" without knowing exactly where
     
  7. FreiZeitGeist

    FreiZeitGeist Senior Member

    The Swiss-Filmaker talked on this broadcast how he did the meisurements:

    1st Fligth was in Okt 2009 into a "Man made cloud"
    "We used two Gas-Bottles there was a vacuum in it. We opened the Bottle and the Gas flows into the Bottle" - there was a tube on the bottle and the tube was installed to the rigth wing"

    He used an empty bottle as blind-sample, blind Bottle was opened on the ground . it was Alminium found in both bottles

    The bottle wich was in fligth contained "12 mg barium, 5 mg aluminium"
    other blind-test sample had 2 mg Aluminium and 5 mg Barium
    (volume of bottle wasn´t mentioned)

    2nd flight was with scientists doing the experiment
    they used a pump sucking the air, there was a filter installed, air flow was measuremented,
    measurements in 28.000 feet altitude, they weren´t allowed to fly higher, where the contrails were.
    14 liters of air sucked, lab analysed filtered material
    5 mg Barium per 1000 liters was found (calculated up from the taken 14 liters)
    There was no aluminium, scientist sayed it could be under detection-level
     
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  8. Ross Marsden

    Ross Marsden Senior Member

    Was anyone watching the plane to see if it made trails during the experiment?
     
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  9. FreiZeitGeist

    FreiZeitGeist Senior Member

    Mr. Hanke said, that all of this was filmed and he will be releasing it in his Movie. That´s the Key-Point of his movie...

    For the first attempt, he was for himself unshure if this methode with some Bottles worked...

    The second attempt with the filters was (from his side) better, but doesnt get the results he wanted...

    So he actually collects money to make the "final Fligth" (7000 $)

    ... but where he searched for support? By the Chemtrail-Believing-Guys...
     
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  10. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    New doco in planning: Overcast

    Billed as "an investigative documentary on the phenomenon of man-made cloud cover induced by jet trails - and the related issue of chemtrails."

    There's a 2 minute intro/advertisement/funding request at the Indiegogo page - it is also on YT:



    It almost looks reasonable - may the "chemtrail" aspect is going to be something along the lines of "why are so many people worried about this to the extent hat a whole conspiracy theory makes its living from chemtrails?"

    However back on the indiegogo page under updates you will find that Aircrap are helping them "spread the word", Russ Tanner too, so I'd guess that the chances of a balanced programme are slim!!

    so far it has $7200 out of $25,000 sought.
     
  11. PCWilliams

    PCWilliams Active Member

    I have a pretty extensive background in getting media attention for issues and causes. What jumped out at me was their use of news clips buttressing their theory. Here is how it works:

    • Have a demonstration or some other event to get attention.
    • Contact news outlets, let them know where you will be and when. Provide them a press release of your main points and assertions. The crazier your assertions, the better chance of coverage.
    • Monitor the news for ANY coverage of your event and archive what is covered.
    • Now when you make your video, insert snippets of the media simply repeating your talking points.

    Bingo! Instant illusion of a news media sharing your concerns. Very, very effective.

    We used to do this all the time. Plant the story, quote the coverage of the story, conveniently omit that we were the ones who started the story.
     
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  12. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    My hope there is that he's just being neutral so as not to alienate potential guests, but he's actually going to make something science based.

    Although reading the twitter feed linked above, he's not seeming that neutral:

    https://twitter.com/Overcast13

    Unless "make a change" is code for "educate chemtrail believers about contrail persistence".
     
  13. blargo

    blargo Member

    This made me want to see if there was a kickstarter campaign and how close they got? Well I found this: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects...reat-to-mankind-linked-to-artificial?ref=live
    There was a geoengineering kickstarter that ended June 5th, 2013 with a goal of $200,000. Well they got 20 people interested that pledged $3,151...
     
  14. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The automatic translation works pretty well there (at least for the Narrator), click on CC (Captions), then if there's no >> English option, click on German, and then click on CC again, and select Translate Captions, then Choose English from the list.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  15. FreiZeitGeist

    FreiZeitGeist Senior Member

    Thanks for the hint with the translation, Mick!

    I´ve heard the half of the broadcast mentioned in the first posting and this wasn´t neutral.
    One of the main claims of the film will be, that the DLR with his research-aircaft Falcon 20 could do measurements, they where asked by the swiss author to do so and they answered that such a campagn would cost half a million bucks...

    BTW: This research-vessel by DLR uses a Iontrap-mass-spectrometer. Spectrometers have the cability to measure ALL ELEMENTS. If aluminium or Barium would be part of the plume, they would find it with this. I bet, this interesting detail will be not mentioned in the movie.
     
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  16. Pete

    Pete Member

    How can this be science?

    1. Did he sample a 'normal' contrail, from the same type of aircraft that made the 'chemtrail', for comparison?
    2. Did he sample 'clean' air at the altitude of the 'chemtrail' during the same flight?
    3. 0.07mg of Barium was recorded in 14 litres (based on the 5mg per 1000 litres).
    4. How big was the blind test bottle on the ground that recorded 5mg Barium? Was this a per 1000 litre figure?!
    5. Why weren't all the tests done/repeated using the scientists and their pump/filter?
    6. Why weren't they allowed to fly higher? Did they think about this/understand why?

    How the hell is this science?!!
     
  17. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    6-18cont copy. We put in an appearance at Global Skywatch today.
     
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  18. Pete

    Pete Member

    These people drive me mad!
     
  19. HappyMonday

    HappyMonday Moderator

    "Thank you, I just needed somebody to agree with me so I could ignore the nagging doubt in my mind,"
     
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  20. TWCobra

    TWCobra Senior Member

    I also listened to the interview that Freizeitgeist referred to.

    My notes From the interview,

    Hancke is a chemtrail believer who realises that there is no solid proof. He has been in contact with Murphy, Peterson and now Tanner. He has read up on Carnicom but has not met him. He doesn't talk about chemtrails in public, referring to them as persistent contrails, but to his friends it is chemtrails.

    He says he has spoken to contrail scientists. Tanner asked him about his conversation with Ken Caldeira who was apparently guarded but he did not believe he was lying. Hancke claimed to know when other people, presumably other contrail scientists, were lying.

    Tanner asked him about what his personal opinions about chemtrails; "it was clear to me that it wasn't normal" and there "needed to be solid proof".

    He completed 2 flights using two different sampling methods. As mentioned, the first involved drawing air from outside via a vacuum bottle connected by a tube to what must be some kind on valve on the starboard wing. The results were as recorded about by FZG. The test was declared scientifically unusable due to problems with the control bottle. It did however take place inside a trail.

    The second flight used a blower which forced outside air through a filter. Only 14 litres of air was collected and the result was 5 MICROgrams of Barium per 1000 litres. No aluminium was collected but Hancke speculates that more air needed to be drawn in to get a reading. The test did not occur in a contrail but was taken 1000 metres below heavy contrail activity. If Tanners claim that he can smell contrails on the ground shortly after they are released at altitude is correct, one wonders why no aluminium showed up and the barium content was so minuscule.

    At this point I tuned out because, frankly, Tanner so enjoys hearing himself talk it became unbearable to continue listening..

    To summarise: this is an attempt, not to research contrails but to prove chemtrails, from a dedicated believer. A third flight is required because the results from the first two prove nothing from a scientific viewpoint.

    However, no doubt the fact that they found barium at a concentration of .00000005 grams per litre of air will no doubt be trumpeted as conclusive evidence of massive spraying.
     
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  21. FreiZeitGeist

    FreiZeitGeist Senior Member

    Thanks for your "Micrograms"-correction I´ve listened the livestream and for me it was around 4 o´clock in the early morning. Not the best time to listen carfully :)
     
  22. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    The host speaks as if this Matthias guy has found something significant. He also goes on and on about not "deciding" what to believe rather than relying on factual evidence. Pot... kettle... irony to the max?
     
  23. FreiZeitGeist

    FreiZeitGeist Senior Member

    Short update:

    On the "March against Chemtrails and Geoengineering" in Berlin, Werner Altnickel (the "german Carnicom") mentioned that the Movie will be released soon

    [​IMG]

    (Werner Altnickel is the Person holding the Microphone, The Persons left and right of him are well-known "Reichsbürger" as I Mentioned in the Thread about the Global March)

    ... Mr Altnickel is "worshiped" by the german Chemtrail-Believers. He seems to be more involved into this movie than Mr. Hancke mentioned. I remember a dispute with the anti-Chemtrails-citizens-initiative "Sauberer Himmel" over one year ago. Mr. Altnickel was one of the founder of this citizens-initative and wanted parts of the donations to this citizens-initiative to support an "important Movie". The other Founder of "sauberer Himmel", the Lawyer Dominik Storr, doesn´t give him the Money from the Donations. Mr. Altnickel then leaved the Citizen-Initaitive.

    Mr. Dominik Storr, official Speaker (and founder) of the leading german anti-Chemtrail-Movement "sauberer Himmel" did not take any part on the great Worldwide Chemtrail March.

    Keep the connection between the Filmmaker Matthias Hancke and Werner Altnickel in Mind, it seems to get a important Point. I think. Mr. Altnickel will be presented as the (real) leading "Chemtrail-Expert" in the movie.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  24. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Hancke is going to be in LA next week, and I agreed to be interviewed for his film. I don't think any harm can come of it.
     
  25. FreiZeitGeist

    FreiZeitGeist Senior Member

    Good News for me, but please make a full copy of the interview by yourself (and say this to Mr. Hanke, that you will do so, that´s an important point in most Central-European countries law, that nobody has the rigth to publish recordings maked without permission)
     
  26. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I was interviewed a couple of weeks ago by a producer for the film, Tristan Albrecht. I have an audio recording of the full interview, but I'll leave that until after the film is out.

    My impression was that Tristan was playing it very neutral. I explained persistent contrails, and why I though geoengineering was not occurring, highlighted the big errors (persistence, global dimming, the new UV claims).

    He asked me what my reaction would be if trails were sampled, and they found something. I said multiple tests would be needed, and with appropriate scientific rigor. I rambled a bit there though.

    He seemed like a fairly serious film-maker, striving for "neutrality", but hopefully realizing it was not really an even argument, but science vs. an evidence-less fringe.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  27. TWCobra

    TWCobra Senior Member

    It has been 6 months now... anything fro Mathias?
     
  28. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I've not heard anything. I'll email and ask.
     
  29. Steve Funk

    Steve Funk Active Member

    This guy claims to have knowledge of actual sampling. I haven't met him and don't know what his source is.
     

    Attached Files:

  30. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Mattias says they are in post production, and it should be coming out in May 2014.
     
  31. skephu

    skephu Senior Member

    Apparently this movie is still not out.
    I wonder whether the reason is that the measurements did not yield what they expected.
     
  32. Efftup

    Efftup Senior Member

    Quite possibly. Trumpet something as significant and WILL BLow the lid off to keep people believing and then just quietly bury it.
    Any more news on Ian's Proof from Airbus they don;t fit Pylon drains for example? have the legal people finished with it yet?
     
  33. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    This was from their facebook page, August 13th 2014:
    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=337786673044585&id=142678639222057
    So it seems like they ran out of money, and are presumably working on actual paying projects instead.
     
  34. skephu

    skephu Senior Member

    I guess if they really had the smoking gun the movie would be long finished and widely publicized.
     
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  35. Peter

    Peter Member

    Good point. If they indeed think they found something, they sure have their priorities wrong. Instead of alarming us that indeed jets are spraying whatever it is they found and once and for all exposing 'chemtrails', they leave us in the dark until they finally finish the movie.

    But since they obviously didn't find anything noteworthy, I doubt this movie will ever see the light of day at all.
     
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  36. cloudspotter

    cloudspotter Senior Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2015
  37. Peter

    Peter Member

    [​IMG]
    Well that trailer just shows shots of contrails mixed with people talking about geoengineering. Ah well, it worked for WITWATS, so this'll be a big hit for the chemtrail fanatics ;)

    I've posted a question on the facebook page asking whether the contrail sampling data will be released anytime soon, or whether it's in the movie. I'm not expecting an answer..
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2015
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  38. Peter

    Peter Member

    Overcast.
    Let's see how long this is going to last ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2015
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  39. skephu

    skephu Senior Member

    Who's this guy?
    [​IMG]
     
  40. skephu

    skephu Senior Member

    To answer my own question, he is Bill Vander Zalm, Canadian politician, apparently a chemtrail believer.
     
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