1. You mean like the fire in the SS Noronic in 1949 that only took 20 min to turn the steel hull white hot , buckle and sink ?
     
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  2. hamishsubedei

    hamishsubedei Member

    I believe she had steel decks but was not a battleship or totally connected together in a steel matrix.
     
  3. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

     
  4. 6,905 ton steel hulled vessel
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Please note the Steel Girder frame
    20120907-Noronic-InteriorWorkers.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2014
  6. The steel deck
    20120907-Noronic-BurntDeck.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2014
  7. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    Please clarify this. Heat does not weaken steel? The heat just gets passed on with no consequence to itself?
     
  8. hamishsubedei

    hamishsubedei Member

    What a horrible disaster.
    Im not sure if the steel itself failed , It just says the steel decks collapsed and from the photo it looks like the steel is still there .
    Here the chinese made steel skyscraper was fully ablaze and did not collapse sorry for off topic .
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/world/asia/10beijing.html?_r=0
     
  9. did the deck photo not load for you ? that is twisted , warped steel from only fire. please note there was no impact of any type and no jet fuel on board.
     
  10. Alienentity

    Alienentity Active Member

    Steel cannot fail from fire. Only thermite/thermate can do that. Nanothermite is extra special so it does it even more better.
    ;)
     
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  11. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    I really wonder what it is that blacksmiths use to soften iron, in a coal fired forge. Do they add 'pixie dust'?

    I have spent a couple of hours a day helping a smith, I thought it was heat.
     
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  12. hamishsubedei

    hamishsubedei Member

    I see its twisted and warped yes , Im no expert in steel fires but the energy dissipates in steel skyscrapers , the more steel the better .
     
  13. gerrycan

    gerrycan Banned Banned


    I don't see a collapse. The vessel was partially taken apart afterwards, and then the hull was refloated, meaning that the structure itself survived the fire. And this is despite the fact that the interior of the ship was lined with oiled wood rather than fireproofed material.
     
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  14. gerrycan

    gerrycan Banned Banned

    It took weeks for workers to remove the decks after the fire. You need to examine the pictures that you posted a little more closely, in fact, a LOT more closely, because what you are looking at are pictures of the ship being wrecked by workers after the fire. They spent a long time removing the decks of the ship before they towed the remainder of it away to Hamilton.
    Here's one of the pictures that you posted:
    [​IMG]
    Note the 2 pieces of steel on the RHS of the rectangular opening.
    Here's a better quality pic of them from below....
    s0372_ss0100_it0498. Here's a close up of the deformed tubular steel piece.
    bent tubular noronic. 2014-01-12 08-19-31.
    For perspective, here is a HQ shot of the dining room of the SS Noronic......
    7209543076_ff2937a9e9_k.
    And now, note the shape of the only deformed element in this picture.......
    s0372_ss0100_it0482.


    Tell me what, in your opinion as a "fire officer" is common in the failures that you are attributing to fire, and if you can, show me a girder that has failed catastrophically on the SS Noronic.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2014
  15. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    More pics
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Do you see a collapse now Gerry?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Hitstirrer

    Hitstirrer Active Member

    So I was right then. Others can claim that a coal forge demonstrates that steel can be melted but if I mention surviving woodburner stoves/BBQs/Ovens and saucepans, my post is deleted. Instead we have a new thread ludicrously attempting to compare a ship, loaded with fuel and soft furnishings, and with all its steel with no fireproofing -- with tall buildings. Trust me, ships are not built like a steelframe building. I would certainly expect to see lightweight steel framing in a ship buckling if its coal bunker caught fire.

    But however hard you squirm around you will not get hydrocarbon fires in an open atmosphere to melt steel as it does in a forge. And you will not get office (or ships) furniture to burn hot enough or long enough to overcome a large highrise steel frame structure. Even attempting to compare the two in such a thread is risible.
     
  18. gerrycan

    gerrycan Banned Banned

    Absolutely not. I looked at this and other images earlier today. Do you see wooden life boats?
     
  19. gerrycan

    gerrycan Banned Banned

    @Mick West WOODEN LIFE BOATS MICK
     
  20. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    What point are you trying to make?
     
  21. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    I think he's saying it can't be a fire because the wooden lifeboats didn't burn?

    However it seems that the fire was mostly contained within the steel hull, only "breaking through" some windows as illustrated by the photo on this page- so the damage to the boats is probably entirely from radiated heat.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2014
    • Like Like x 1
  22. noronic lifeboat.
    No I don't I do however see several METAL lifeboats.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2014
    • Like Like x 1
  23. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    A building that had it's core fireproofing blown away in the crash and that was full or flammable items like office furnishings and synthetic fabrics. Many synthetic fabrics burn at a higher temp than natural ones. There is a reason that anyone working with an open flame like in soldering, glass working, or blacksmithing will only wear natural fibers.

    Ignoring that steel softens and bends in heat is silly. it does,
     
  24. Jazzy

    Jazzy Closed Account

    It should be, if you continually ignore the fact that the material is never allowed to get to its critical weakening temperature in such products because it is being continually cooled in air.

    Steel cannot be melted in a forge.

    What is risible is that you write this when the evidence is before you.

    .
     
  25. Mark Barrington

    Mark Barrington Active Member

    • Like Like x 1
  26. gerrycan

    gerrycan Banned Banned

    Yeah, fair point. I agree that these look like steel life boats.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  27. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  28. FactChecker

    FactChecker New Member

    I always enjoy
    So... why do we fireproof the steel girders?

    That's the question that always go unanswered and ends this conversation.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  29. jaydeehess

    jaydeehess Senior Member

    Given the myriad of examples of partial collapses due to fire alone it is cognitive dissonance to then claim that fire cannot ever overcome the ability of steel to carry a load.
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1