File No. 9110001
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW DEPUTY COMMISSIONER THOMAS FlTZPATRlCK
Interview Date: October 1, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason

2 T. FITZPATRICK
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: We can begin by stating your name and your rank.
MR. FITZPATRICK: Tom Fitzpatrick, Deputy Commissioner for Administration, assigned to the Commissioner's office.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: Just for the record, it's Monday, October 1, 2:40 p.m.,
conference room 8N6 at headquarters.
MR. FITZPATRICK: On the morning of the event I was in my office and I was alerted by Commissioner Feehan and one of the secretaries outside that a plane had hit the World Trade
Center. Ilookedoutthewindow,sawaslicein
the side of the north tower, and then Bill came down the hall and said let's go. So we responded from headquarters. I had previously had a meeting with Tom McDonald, so he came with us, along with RayGoldbach. Ithinkthatwasitinthecar.
En route to the alarm, we could see the smoke fromthenorthtower. Itriedtogetanideaof
how many floors and it looked like the upper third
of the building was involved. We got across the Brooklyn Bridge, went down Broadway and stopped the car, I think it was at Broadway and Dey. We

out of the car and ran down the street. As we got to the intersection of Broadway and Dey or just a little bit down Dey, the second plane hit the
south tower. And we continued down the street. By the time we got to the plaza, a lot of debris was coming down.
Q. Did you witness the second plane hitting?
A. I heard it but I didn't look up. The noise
from the plane was enough to make you not want to look up. I thought the plane was actually going to land in
the street to be honest with you. The noise was outrageous. When it hit the building it was even
worse. Ifigured,aslongaswedidn'tgethitbythe plane, we were ahead of the game. The next thing I was worried about was getting hit by the parts. Various pieces of the plane were falling on the street. As we went down the street you could see parts of aircraft
with stencil numbers on it and things like that. There was a wheel, or like a wheel housing or something else there in the street.
There were lot of bodies coming down but I didn't pay much attention to it. For some reason I was more focused on the airplane parts until somebody started pointing out the body parts. I was

particularly concerned at that point with getting hit
by something falling out of the building, so we ran
under the canopy of 5 World Trade Center, to make our way towards the building, the north tower. We were under the canopy as far as we could go and cut
through. There is a space between 5 and 6. When we got under the end of 5 we would have had to run across the plaza. We didn't believe that was a good idea, so
we went through the space between 5 and 6 and went up anescalatoronthesideof6. Itwasonthestreet
side, on the Vesey Street side. There was a Port Authority cop telling us not to come up and we went up anyway. He directed us to an escalator which went down to the plaza to the concourse level so we could make
our way to the command post at the northwest corner of the north tower.
When we got there, I saw --
Q. So that was West Street near the pedestrian
bridge?
A. Yes, yes. I got there and saw Richie Sehirer
had just come into the lobby, Chief Hayden, Chief Callan, a whole host of security people and people from thePortAuthority. BillFeehanandmyselfandthen Tom Von Essen. That's all I can recall right now.

There are a lot of other people, but they were the only ones I focused on.
Q. Did you mention Chief Ganci?
A. I didn't see Chief Ganci in the lobby at that time.
Q. Can you tell us Commissioner, what the demeanor of the citizens or lay people were there in the lobby, or in the concourse?
A. With respect to the security guards, they
seemed to be fairly composed. They were going about their business, making a lot of phone calls. The only civilians we saw were coming out as we went through the lobby of 5. The Port Authority police were directing groups of people out of the towers, out on to the
street. Seemedliketheyweremostlygoing-theymay havebeengoingacrossthewalkwayatthattime. I didn't really see where they were going, but they were directing them out of the building, quite a few
people.
We were in the lobby, it could have been 15 minutes. We were getting reports. People were calling the security desk with reports of people trapped upstairs. We were trying to get an idea of what was going on with our own people upstairs. We -- somebody

told us in the lobby that they had information that the Pentagon had just been hit, so in addition to the
second plane, the idea of terrorism was confirmed by
the Pentagon. We were looking to, because the command post was so crowded, we were looking for a place to set up a second command post, essentially for communications because we couldn't get any out from behindthedesk. It'sabigmarbledesk. Itlooks
like the security station there is a marble counter with a wall in front of it and you had to go around it every time to get to a phone, so we figured it wasn't going to work out in the long run.
Q. The command center was actually inside number 6?
A. No, inside of the north tower.
Q. It wasn't in number 5, it was in the north tower?
A. Yes, we used 5 for cover and we ran through 6 to get into the north tower.
Q. So the north tower is the command post?
A. Yes, that's at the level of West Street, but
you've got to go down one level. We were there about
15 minutes looking for the secondary command post. We started briefly talking about who was going where. We

were trying to figure out, if somebody was going to go toOEMorsomebodywasgoingtostayonthescene. I think the Commissioner had been told that the Mayor wanted to meet him. I'm not sure where the Mayor was
but the Mayor wanted to meet the Commissioner and some of his staff just north of the tower.
I looked in the concourse level where the shopsare. Itwastoocongested,toodeepinthe building for the units coming out in the street to see anybody. So we went back out to the lobby and dropped back to a position right outside that had 6 escalators goinguptothewalkway. Ithoughttheremightbean opportunity to have people staged there before they came into the main lobby.
Q. Those are the escalators that lead to the pedestrian bridge that takes you from one World Trade Center to the Financial Center?
A. Yes, it is. I looked around. There was no communication. We didn't think that was a good spot. The longer we stayed in the lobby we realized that with the second building and with the command post getting as crowded as it was, we were not going to be able to manage anything from that point, so we decided to move, Bill Feehan, myself, and I believe Commissioner Tierney

at that point. I met her in the walkway or I might havemetherbefore,butshewasthereanyway. I decided to look for a second place to go. I believe the Commissioner left to go north and Bill Feehan and myself, went up to the walkway to go across West Street.
Q. You mean the bridge there?
A. Yes, we went across the north bridge into the Winter Garden. When we got into the Winter Garden, just as soon as we stepped through the door I looked and said to myself this is a perfect command post, because they looked like they were having some type of an event. There were tables set up and there was a big
- around the tables were two rows of tables across the front of the Hudson River side of the Winter Garden.
That would be perfect because if you had a phone at each position, you have an emergency command post, an OEM type set up going right away.
There were two security guards, one of which
I met later on, but there were two security guards who asked us if we needed anything. We told them we needed communications set up in that lobby. Because we
figured that would be the command post. We could come outanddostagingatWestStreet. Hetoldushewould

trytogetitsetupthere. Itwasnotastandardpart
of the lobby set up, but he would try to get us some communications. Itappearedatthattimethatthe
whole building had been evacuated. It was empty except for security.
While he was doing that, we made our way back out to West Street into the driveway of 2 World
Financial Center. There were two garage doors behind us. When we got out there we noticed that the
apparatus were coming in and starting to fill up West Street. Ambulances were responding, and it seemed like they were coming from two different directions on West Street. So we didn't think that would be a good idea
for the long term if we were going to have an event
this big. We had to stage the ambulances down from Canal Street south, so that we could bring the ambulances down, pick up patients and either go through the battery into Brooklyn or Queens or back up the west side into Manhattan or whereever else we were attempting.
It was evident that we weren't going to be abletogettopeopleabovethefire. Basedonthe number of jumpers, we could only assume that hundreds of people were trapped.

We were there for, seems to me 10 minutes maybe. Time was all out of whack for me. I don't know. We were all -with all the running around and the time we spent in each place, it's kind of compressed.
Q. Are we still in the time period from when you saw the second plane hit from east of the World Trade Center?
A. Yes.
Q. You made your way over here. You told us your story about where you went to the Winter Garden back out on the street?
A. Right.
Q. Both of the World Trade Centers are still standing at this point?
A. Both still standing, both heavily involved, but both still standing.
Q. You then followed the driveway into Two Financial Center?
A. Yes, Tom McDonald was there and they asked him to go north and start to control the ambulances and the trucks that seemed to be stopping right at that point. What we wanted to do is get them to the side of the road to keep the street open. One of the things

11 T. FITZPATRICK
that was in the driveway -- while we were talking, we noticed there was groups of people with stretchers and EMS equipment running south on the sidewalk. At the same time there was a group of people with EMS equipment running north. And I thought it was at that point that we needed to coordinate which direction they were going in. If we were going to have a triage area in one set, which we presumed would be south and the ambulances were moving north, that the triage area should all be south.
Chief Gombo was in the driveway at that
point. I asked him to take some people and set up a triage area whereever they thought it would be best to set it up. I believe they left the driveway and went south towards Albany.
Right after that there was a camera crew therefromsomewhere. IrememberFrankGribbonsaying to me is there any chance this building would fall
down. Idon'tthinkIgavehimarealgoodanswer,but
he did tell the camera crew to step back because we
were concerned about falling glass. We assumed from the last explosion that there were big big chunks of
glass coming down from somewhere. So he told them to get back against the building.

At some point I believe Bill asked me to call somebody. ButIcan'tforthelifeofmerememberwho orwhat. Iwaslookingforaphoneandthesecurity guard who was in the driveway, there is a little stone wall with a railing or something on top of it, that you could climb up on it right at the end of the driveway,
so Bill said to make a call. I jumped up on the wall
and ran in right off the street. There was an office there, a security office, and the guy directed me to an office that was 5 feet away to use the phone. I made a phone call and came back out in the driveway.
Q. Is the driveway now on the west side of West Street, so it leads to the World Financial Center or does it lead to the World Trade Center?
A. No, the driveway goes right into 2 World Financial Center on the west side. There were two double doors there.
Q. Just to clarify, Commissioner, this is where the command post was set up?
A. Yes, yes, they were setting up the magnetic boardandstuff. Camebackout. MetBillandI- forget who else was in the driveway at that point. Came back out and stood somewhere near Bill in the driveway. We were right at the raised driveway, which

went down to the street, came up and went down to the garage. It was sort of raised in the center. We basically stood on the raised portion. I started to
look up the building.
Q. Was Chief Ganci present in that area at that time?
A. I didn't see him. I don't remember seeing
him. I came back out. I remember seeing Bill, but I don't remember. I don't remember clearly who else was there, but I know there were about - I would guess between 40 and 50 people in the driveway.
Q. All Fire Department personnel?
A. No, I think aside from Fire Department personnel, there were some other civilian people. I seem to remember somebody in a T-shirt. The only reason I remember that is because -- I think I remember that because I ran into him later on at the back of the garage. We looked up at the building straight up, we were that close. All we saw was a puff of smoke coming from about 2 thirds of the way up. Some people thought itwasanexplosion. Idon'tthinkIrememberthat. I remember seeing, it looked like sparkling around one specific layer of the building. I assume now that that was either windows starting to collapse like tinsel or

something. Then the building started to come down. My initial reaction was that this was exactly the way it lookswhentheyshowyouthoseimplosionsonTV. I would have to say for three or four seconds anyway, maybelonger. Iwasjustwatching. Itwasinteresting
to watch, but the thing that woke everybody up was the cloud of black material. It reminded me of the 10 commandments when the green clouds come down on the street. The black cloud was coming down faster than
the building, so whatever was coming down was going to hit the street and it was pretty far out. You knew it wasn't coming right down. Judging from where people were jumping before that, this cloud was out much further.
Somebody yelled we've got to take cover or
get out of the way or something like that and the only place to go, because we were in that driveway area, was intothegarage. Ididn't,atthatpoint,expectthe building to come down, I guess, but I knew you wanted to be out of the way of this black cloud. I ran into
the garage and I would say ten or 15 feet into the garage,thebuildinghitthestreet. Itwasn'tvery
loud but it was big. A big noise, it wasn't like a
crash, like a car accident, more like a big thud. And

ablastofairanddebriscamethroughthegarage. I think the thing that is unusual about going in was when I ran in the garage there was a railing, where the driveway of the northern most part of the garage went inandsplit. ItsplitwithayellowrailingandasI
was going in, two people fell back. I fell over them.
To keep my balance, I reached out and put my hand on the railing. The people there were scrambling to get UP.
When I got up, I just kept running straight
ahead but I realized that I was on the other side of
the railing. Not the driveway side, but what looked
like a walkway. In this garage, that would be where you pay your ticket to get your car out. So I kept
going straight with the railing. Some people ran down thedriveway. Idon'tknowtothispoint,stilldon't
know if the driveway's southern most point was parallel to this or if it went down another level. I really
don't.
Anyway, I ran into four or five people
straight ahead with the railing on the left.
Eventually, I ran into a corridor, a long corridor with
a door on the end of a long corridor to get out of the debris that was coming through the door. We just kept

going down the corridor, assuming it was going to come out through the side or the lobby or a hallway. Unfortunately it turned into a dead end, like a locker room, like an electrical closet or where they put
lockers in. There were really no doors to the place. We just kept going to the end and at the opening where you assume it's going to open up into another lobby, it openedupintoaroomaboutthissize. Ithadlockers in it. That was it.
So by this time we couldn't see anything, the noise was over. It was very quiet, but this plaster
was in the air so you couldn't breathe normally without inhaling a mouth full of something.
Q. Were there lights or any lighting?
A. There were lights, but the stuff was dark.
With all the stuff floating around, it was almost
darkness, like a white out or a gray out. It seemed
like the guy in the T-shirt was the guy - I thought he wasaconstructionworker. Hemayhavebeena maintenance guy. But we got down to the end and he was sayingisthereawayout? Isthereawayout? I
couldn't find any. All I could see were lockers, after getting close to them, and conduits on the wall. There was no way out of that room, so we started to go back

to where we came out and I think we ended up past the way we came in.
Q. How many people were with you, Commissioner? A. I think there were about 5 or 6.
Q. Anybody that you know personally?
A. No.
Q. Did you have a Fire Department radio with you at that time?
A. I had no radio, no. I just had my turnout
coat. Unfortunately, my helmet was in the car. Richie said he was going to go to - I think the Commissioner wanted Bill Feehan to go across the street to OEM and he said to tell Bill to give me his helmet, because I didn't have one. So we came back out of the hallway and somebody said there is a door. There is a door. Let's go out this way. I couldn't see it. So whoever said it stayed at the door, see, and kept yelling this way, this way, this way. You couldn't orient yourself. With the dust you didn't know which direction it was.
Q. Did you pass any people on the way back out?
A. I don't think l passed anybody who was walkingaround,becausewewerealltogether. Ithink there was only one guy I worked with next to me. But there were people behind him, so when we turned around

to go back out, they were in front of us. I saw there
was a door, I remember going and feeling my way around. There were a couple of door knobs. One of them said it wasalocksmithshop. Isawanelectricalclosetand somethingelse. Itwasatypicalmaintenancedoor.
But I remember the locksmith one. It was stupid, I
know. I assumed that the building had fallen on the
other building. I couldn't get out of the garage. I
keep remembering thinking that the locksmith would always have the keys to the doors and they were
probably in the locksmith's closet. But who knows if
he ever got out.
Wecameoutandwentintothisdoor. Ithink
we went up one landing into a store which seemed like a bagelshoporsomething. Iseemtoremembercamerasor something, on the right side. That led around through
the store into the lobby of the Winter Garden.
Q. How was the visibility at that time?
A. It was all -- it was still - the cement - you know the cement they put in, as you got further in towards the Winter Garden it cleared up. By the time you actually get into the lobby of the Financial Center, it was a little bit of stuff, but not nearly as bad as what it was before. I went to the lobby. We

went across.
Q. Was there anybody in the lobby that you
recognized?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Were there people in the Winter Garden? A. No. I don't remember seeing anyone over
there. There may have been people there, I just may not have been paying attention to that.
Q. Did you hear a lot of people yelling or screaming?
A. There was some people yelling, but I don't knowexactlywheretheywere. Ididn'tlooktosee. I didn't look back to see what had happened. But I knew that down to the right was the entrance - was Vesey Street. So we went down that way. Passed a - it was likearestaurantinthecourtyardthere. Ithink thereisoneoneitherside. IwentdownandIsawout on Vesey Street, I saw T om McDonald, who we had just sent to move the rigs. So as soon as I saw him I knew hewasalive. IwentdownthereandIthinkhewas looking for Tom Curti, might have been with Tom McDonald going down the street.
At that time I saw Tom McDonald, who looked more like a snow man than me, but it seemed like he had

a real mouthful of stuff. So I went back in and
grabbed a couple of bottles of water from the diner
that we had just passed or the restaurant or
something. Igrabbedacoupleofbottlesofwaterand gave them to him. I then proceeded down Vesey Street to West Street, figuring that now I could come around
to the right and back towards tower one and towards the driveway.
Q. Heading east on Vesey Street?
A. Yes, but you couldn't go that way. Between
the dust and everything else you couldn't see much, but Ithinkthewalkwaywasstillup. Ialsoknewthatthe second tower was up. But Tom McDonald said what had actually happened. So I went out and looked and I
could see the north tower, but I couldn't see the south tower, but sometime when you are down there if you are in the right position, it only looks like one building tobeginwith. SoIwalkedalittlebitdownfurther
and saw that all you could see was the radio tower sticking up through the smoke. But you couldn't really see anything else. But based on where the sun was shining through, where there was a shadow before, I saidtoTom,thewholebuildingisgone. Icameback
to him and thought more about the guys who went in the

21 T. FITZPATRICK
garage but they didn't come up the way I came up. I assumed that the garage at 2 World Financial went down and came back out and there had to be a driveway. I knew there was a driveway in the back of the building, so I went around the back of the building.
Q. Back by Vesey towards the water?
A. Yes. (inaudible). Back around behind 4
World Financial Center. I had actually come out of 3.
I went back around behind 3 looking for the garage exit that should be coming out of 2.
Q. You went between 3 and 4 and you walked behind 3?
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A. Yes. As I got back here, I met the same
security guard that was in the lobby. He had a
ponytail. He told me he was retired secret service. Somethingofficial. Ithinkhementionedretired secretservice. Ithoughtthatwasprettyreliable.
So I asked him if there was an entrance to the garage fromthisside,ifthegaragewentthrough. Hesaidhe didn't know. He wasn't sure. There was somebody else
Yes, south and west. Behind the Winter Garden?
Behind the Winter Garden.
So you were back near the boat pier?

that said it doesn't go through, it's a separate - becausethere'sawallbetweengarages. SoIstarted to go south behind Merrill Lynch near the park. So we came around and come around to that little bridge area where they took the families down. As I got around there, it just started to come down towards the
building and all of a sudden a whole bunch of people started running. The second one --
Q. Towards you?
A. Yes, now they are all running towards me. I said the second one is coming down. This is getting to be a little bit too much. So we started to run straightouttowardsthewater. RightnearLiberty Street and then real close to 2 Financial Center. Ran out to the water where the marina is, and then ran north on the World Financial plaza till we came to the water. By then the second building went down. The cloud from that debris had already blown out through the street, but the people who were in that area were sort of protected because they didn't get the direct brunt of the second cloud because the building took the brunt of the hit. The cloud seemed to be, the
Financial Center seemed to, you know, clear a path. The cloud went on both ends but didn't come straight at

you, so you were a little bit better off there.
I went out to the water and tried to figure
out what was going on. There were people out there in boats, starting to pull up to the pier.
Q. You noticed a lot of people out on the pier?
A. Yes, there were a lot of people out against thefence. Ithinksomepeoplehadgoneoutthereand stopped to watch what was going on after the first building came down, because it looked like if they had gotten that far and the buildings came down they should have kept running. It seems like they may have run out there with the first building and decided to stop and watch the second building. And then the second building came down, and they had no place to go except into the water, over the railing. As you got further
north, you could see that they were getting hit by the cloud. Some people were trying to get into boats.
Q. Was there anybody in the water that you noticed?
A. I didn't see anybody in the water. I saw
some people going on the boats. Some of the boats were having difficulty with gates that dropped down to let people on, but they couldn't get them down because of the railings. So we tried to figure out a way to get

people up over the railings on to the boats. Some firemen were helping some civilians. Then I met a
Chief out there, Raynis, I think his name was, who startedtotakeaheadcount. Itoldhimtoget-- therewasanotherChieffurtherdown. Itlookedlike hewasdoingthesamething. Itoldhimtoget
together, to get everybody and send somebody down and get all the firemen on the pier, to try to get them
together in one group. At least get a preliminary head count and we were going to take them out to meet -- the only thing I could see was the big arch in front of BMCC.
Q. That's up by like North Moore? Chambers and West?
A. Yeah, I told them take all the guys you can
get and meet in front of the arch, and when we got there, we would figure out what to do next. By then -- the school, the high school started to let kids out, Stuyvesant High School. There was a lot of kids. The firemen were stretched along the pier there. So we went down this way and it looked like the kids were starting to come out of school, I'm thinking in my
mind. So we made our way across towards BMCC to regroup. We came back down West Street, and I don't

know what the time frame is, but I ended up running
into a Battalion Chief and I asked him if he had
anybody with him. It seemed like he had a group of a
lot of different people. So I asked him if he had
anybody with him. He didn't. I had gone, come down West Street and tried to get down as far as I could in front of 3. After the smoke cleared you could see that
3 was clear, but the bridge had come down and I thought maybe the guys were in the driveway of 1 North. I was hoping they were on this side of the bridge. I looked
as much as I could in front of 3 World Financial
Center. Itwasjustsixinchesofdebris. Ifthere
was someone laying there, it would be hard to distinguish them from the mounds of paper. I didn't see anybody, so I got Shaun Reen. I said get some guys. Getsomecompanies. IthinkBillFeehanis
right here. I assumed that they were between the north bridge, laying in the street, and Vesey Street. You could see right away that if they were on the other
side of that, forget about trying to climb over it or
get through or past it. About the only way to do a rescue was from around the other side, the south side, which I hadn't seen. So he came down and told me he had about a dozen guys. Searched everywhere and

couldn't find anybody. And then we started to - then people started to drift in.
Q. So just prior to the first collapse, you were at the driveway of Two Financial?
A. Right.
Q. Was Commissioner Feehan with you at that time?
A. Yes.
Q. Then he was out there also, but you weren't sure if Chief Ganci was there?
A. I didn't remember seeing Pete, but again that was after I had just come out of the building, making a phone call. When I came out, if you jumped off that wallthere. Iwalkedpast-youmightnothavenoticed anybodywhowasclosertothatwall. Iftheywere closer to the wall or if there were more people in
front of him when I jumped off, I didn't see him. It's hard to tell. The only thing I could figure is that
when we ran backwards, either they ran into the other driveway, which was separate, and made their way out, somehow got out. The debris had fallen and they couldn't get across the first one or if it was on a different level, they would have been at the second entrance. They must have came up next to that little

wall to get out.
Because later on when I got back there, it
looked like the little wall had been shielded from the direct hit of debris, because the building deflected
it. I assumed they came back up next to that wall and made their way out to the street where the magnetic board was previously and must have got hit by the second building. But I never saw either of them after that.
Q. Did you ever see Tom McDonald?
A. Tom McDonald, when I came back the second timeIfoundTomMcDonaldonWestStreet. Becausehe waslimping. Hewassittingonacar. Hewasworse than he was the first time. He was sitting on a car or bumper or something like that. He had torn a muscle in his leg. He was having trouble walking. I think then
he told me he found Tom Curti. So that was one less guy to look for. That's about it. The rest of it is a blur.
Q. When you went out between the first and
second collapse and as you made your way back to West Street, that north bridge was down?
A. Right, I don't know if --
Q. It was down after the first collapse?

A. Was it? I didn't know. I really couldn't
see. You could see the debris, but with the cloud, you couldn't, from where I was -- I was standing at the corner of 3 World Financial and looking up Vesey and West. All you could see was the top and the street. You couldn't see anything. It was like a snow storm. But you could see through the sun, every once in a while, you could see the north tower and the antenna sticking up. The reason I knew the second building was gone because the smoke drifted for a second, and the sunlight came through and I knew it wasn't an optical illusion, it was just gone. So that's all I know about
the second one.
I don't know if the bridge was down or partiallydown. Itcouldhavebeeninthestreet. I didn't spend a long time looking.
Q. Commissioner, when you came back out after the first collapse, from the rear or the inside of Two World Financial, did you ever see Dr. Kelly down near that bridge area?
A. No, not by the north bridge. I didn't see
her. I met David Prezant. He was in the driveway. The first one. As a matter of fact he was there when we came out. We were on the driveway the first time.

Either before or after I came out he was there.
Because I think he went with Gombo or someone from EMS. They went together to build a triage area. But no, I didn't see Dr. Kelly. For some reason, it's real blurry. I can't remember why I went to make that phone call. Iwenttofindoutsomething. Iraninthat buildingandmadeaphonecall. Ican'trememberwhat itwas. That'sall.
Q. (inaudible)?
A. I called Sandy from the lobby when I went
back in to get the water, because my sister lives in Battery Park City. Tom McDonald was sitting outside, I wasgoingtogethimsomewater. Iwentbackinto steal the water. There was a phone right next to the counter, so I called Sandy. I told her to call my wife
and find out where my sister was, because I didn't know if the building had fallen on her building. I couldn't
tell. Findouthowmysisterwas-callmywife,find
out how my sister was and call my father, because he's in Florida. Just let them know that I'm still alive.
And then I went on with the day.
Q. You mentioned earlier that you had a conversation with Commissioner Von Essen about a helmet.

A. Yeah.
Q. Did Commissioner Feehan give you his helmet? A. No, no. He kept it. We never had a chance
to make that. That would have been a difficult swap. Idon'tthinkhewouldhavegivenitupsoquick. I
don't think he would have been so willing to go to OEM either. I'm glad he did, but that was the plan - it wasgoingtobethat. Onceyoustartedtalkingto
Richie Schirer about recall, which we knew was going to be a mess, somewhere in the conversation Richie says to me "We'll do recall". I said to him "Make it quick,
Yankee Stadium or Shea Stadium." Commissioner Von Essen said "I want you to go with the boss and I want Bill to go to OEM." He was going with the Mayor. But obviously that didn't work out. That was the last conversation between the three of us that day. Then Richiewasatstaging. Ithinkhewasonthephone, actually calling OEM, trying to get Shea Stadium or Yankee Stadium opened up. That's the last time I saw him. I guess he went off towards where the Mayor was going or back to his office.
Some people, I think when we went up across the walkway, I think some people were contemplating running out through the glass windows on West Street.

31 T. FITZPATRICK
But they were having second thoughts because of the jumpers. If you got hit by a jumper, you'd be out of
business. So we went up through the walkway to get out, but I don't know who might have gone out through the windows.
Q. Do you recall ever seeing Father Judge down there?
A. I didn't see him.
Q. When you were at the command post on West Street, across from the south tower, was it?
A. The north tower.
Q. North tower, could you see firefighters on either side of that tower?
A. I didn't notice. I know there were rigs. I could not actually see any people, but I could see the rigs there. When we were in the north tower, just before we left, there was a report of a third plane cominginfromthePortAuthority. Idon'tknowif anybody knew whether to take that seriously or if it was true or not. But I heard Chief Callan telling guys to come down, to get out of the building.
Q. You heard him, or it on the radio?
A. No, I heard him say it. l was standing right there next to him. He told people to come down, to get

out of the building. He wanted all personnel out of the building. I don't know if he was communicating that to the second tower or to both or to the people in the building, but I did hear him say that.
Q. This is when the command post was still in the north tower?
A. Still in the north tower. A lot of the
marble in the lobby was falling off the walls, big
slabs of marble were falling down. From the impact, I guess. The lobby didn't look too good. The integrity
of the elevators - I started to think about the
elevators. They had either blown out, cut off or could possibly have the cars coming down. The lobby was becoming an untenable place, especially if we wanted to continue operations.
Q. Elevators (inaudible)?
A. I didn't see anybody coming down the stairs inthelobby. Idon'tthinkthereisanexitinthe lobby.
Q. So you saw no civilian personnel coming out from the lobby?
A. No, when went I down and when I went back. We were in the lobby by the command station. You go east in the lobby. There are a couple of doors there

that lead to the concourse. Three little doors. Those doors lead into the concourse where there are shops and stores. But as soon as I went through those doors, I figured that would be a crazy place to set up a command post, because who would find you. Where's the phones. There's nothing useful in there, so I came back out.
Q. So the first command post in the north tower was in the area of where the airline ticket booths are?
A. The first was at the street level in the northwest corner of the building.
Q. So it wasn't where the ticket booths are?
A. Right, there was nothing in the lobby that
was commercial and the command post was a big marble desk which had a console behind it, but you couldn't
see over it. About a five foot wall and there was all
Port Authority cops and security people behind it. I
went back there because somebody had given me a report. One of the cops behind there said we have peopletrappedonthe22ndfloor. Somecompanywas calling down to the lobby. They were trapped. Debris had come down in front of their door and they were looking for companies or firemen to remove the debris
so they could get out. I gave that to Chief Hayden.
I said I don't know what we can do at this

point, but just put it on the list. A list of places
that we had to search or get to, because everybody was calling us up. And the 22nd, I thought at that point seemed like a relatively safe place to be. The 22nd would probably be the best.
Last thing we saw, as opposed to (inaudible). Q. l just have one last question.
A. (Not recorded).
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: If no one has any further questions, Commissioner, I thank you
and we will end this interview at this time.

F i l e No. 9110002
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW CHIEF FIRE MARSHAL LOUIS GARCIA Interview Date: October 2, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis

L. GARCIA
MR. McALLISTER: This is Kevin McAllister from Administration. It is October 2nd at 11:06 a.m.
We're with Chief Garcia in his office. I am joined by - -
Campbell.
Marshal.
FIRE MARSHAL CAMPBELL: Fire Marshal
MR. GILBERT: Steve Gilbert.
FIRE MARSHAL STARACE: Fire Marshal Starace. CHIEF GARCIA: And Louis Garcia, Chief Fire
MR. McALLISTER: We're going to direct Chief Garcia's attention to the morning of September the
llth, 2001, and we're going to ask Chief Garcia to tell us about the events of that morning from his
perspective.
CHIEF GARCIA: Okay. That morning I was due
to play in the charity golf tournament at Douglaston Golf Course. I probably got there somewhere about 7:30 I got to the golf course. I was in a foursome with Supervising Fire Marshal James Kelty, Captain Gene Kelty, who was the captain of 10 Engine located near the World Trade Center, and also Captain James Johnson, who works over in the Training Academy.
From the first tee of Douglaston Golf Course,

L. GARCIA
ironically, you have a view of the World Trade Center. In fact, those are the two buildings you can see from Douglaston Golf Course. Douglaston Golf Course is in Douglaston, Queens. It's approximately between 15 and 20 miles from Manhattan. From the first tee you see the World Trade Center.
We teed off. I was on the second hole when I was notified through my alphanumeric beeper that a plane had gone into the World Trade Center. I got on my cell phone, called EOC and said, in my exact words, is this a fucking joke? And they said no, it's a confirmed hit of a plane; it's confirmed the plane has hit the World Trade Center.
At that point I turned around, James Kelty was in my cart with me, we turned around, went up to the first tee. I was going to go back. When we got to the first tee, a police lieutenant - - and I don't know his last name but his first name is Don. I can get his last name. He's on the Mayor's detail. He's a lieutenant on the Mayor's security detail of the City Hall street detail. And right from that vantage point you could see that the tower, the World Trade Center tower, the north tower had been hit. There was smoke billowing out from the tower and it was an unbelievable

L . GARCIA
sight, and Don was on the phone with City Hall. I remember saying to Kelty get me over to my car. So we were taking the golf cart down to the parking lot of the golf course.
On the way down to the parking lot of the golf course, we heard a rumble. We looked around. We thought it was right near us. And we looked up and Don, who was still on the tee box, the first tee, said two planes hit and put up two fingers.
On my way down to the parking lot I told James Kelty, I said I hope this is not a terrorist attack. When we were notified of the second plane hitting, I knew it was a terrorist attack and I said I've got to go to the site.
So I left him there, got in my car. I'm on the way to the city, Manhattan. I stopped at my house, which is right on the way. I don't live too far from the golf course. I changed my clothing, got on the Cross Island Parkway and then onto the Long Island Expressway. At that time other emergency vehicles were heading into the city and we kind of made a caravan along the Long Island Expressway on our way into the city.
Q. Were you in radio contact at that point?

L. GARCIA
A. Yes. I could hear them doing two fifth alarms. There were two fifth alarms being called in.
I was calling Hooper Street on my cell phone to ask if Chief Richard McCahey had gone. They said he was on his way. I got on the radio and I could hear fire marshals responding from Manhattan, from Manhattan base, also McCahey responding. He was trying to get through the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel. And I also called Hooper Street and I said the fire marshal of Hooper Street, they should respond also. At that point Bobby Byrnes was responding with fire marshals from SIU. I didn't know if other fire marshals were needed, so I didn't bother to call other bases to get Brooklyn, Bronx or Queens to respond.
As I was responding, as you're going down the expressway, of course, you get closer, you could see the World Trade Center, both towers are burning.
Q. You're still on the Queens side of the tunnel?
A. I'm still on the Queens side, yes. I'm going over that hill right before you go through the tunnel and you could see the skyline of the city.
Q. So you're west of the BQE at that point?
A. I'm probably - - no. The BQE? I'm past the

L. GARCIA
BQE .
Q. So you're west?
A. I'm west of the BQE, yes.
I went through the tunnel with my caravan of cars. They turned to go south down Second Avenue. I went down Second Avenue south but I turned down 34th Street. Let me see. Let me get this straight. In fact, let me take that back. I don't know if I turned down 34th Street or Houston Street. But I went south for a while. It was either 34th Street or Houston Street. But I wanted to go down the West Street side. I was headed toward West Street because I wanted to go down West Street and approach it from that side. I thought I would have a better chance of getting closer because West Street is a large street and I'd have better chance of getting by the apparatus because it would be parked on the side.
I went down West Street, went past Chambers on West. Of course, you can see the towers burning all that time. Every time you saw them.
Q. Both towers were still standing at that point?
A. Yes, both towers were still standing. I went down to West Street. I went past Chambers and I

L . GARCIA
probably parked a block and a half up from Vesey. I parked right behind a rig. I don't remember whose rig it was. I parked behind a rig, got out of the rig. I remember there was a chaplain there. He called himself a chaplain. I think he's a rabbi who works in counseling. But he calls himself a chaplain. He had his badge out and I know that this rabbi works in counseling and the counseling unit will be able to help you identify him. He helped me on with my coat and I got my helmet, I got my turnout coat and started walking down the street.
In front of me I could see the two buildings were burning. I'm walking down West Street. I'm passing rigs. There were a lot of other rigs parked there. I don't know the numbers. I didn't look at the numbers of the rigs. I was on the west side of West Street, walking on the west side of West Street. I walked underneath the north bridge. I was trying to find a command post.
On the way down there, I could hear McCahey establishing a command post on the south side of the World Trade Center, and after looking at the buildings, I found that I probably had more space on the north side, so I really wanted them to come to the north

L. GARCIA
side. I was trying to contact them by radio in the car to get them to go north. Well, first in the car I was in radio contact and I was asking them exactly where he was and he was trying to describe to me where he was on West Street. I knew it was south from the position I was at. But I hadn't assessed it yet until I got out of the car.
So I get out of the car. I'm walking towards him, going south on West Street. I go underneath the north bridge and at that point I come across Chief Ganci, Commissioner Feehan and Chief Downey and they're standing across the street south of the north bridge looking up at the buildings and they're talking about what they're going to do.
Q. Were they on the west side of West Street?
A. They were on the west side of West Street. They were on the sidewalk on the west side of West Street. There were other firefighters around them. I could see them. There were firefighters across the street, but I didn't take note of who they were.
Q. And this would be on the west side near the north bridge outside the World Financial Center?
A. South of the north bridge nearest the World Financial Center on the west side of West Street on the

L . GARCIA
sidewalk. I could see there was grass behind them,
like a hill, like a hilly grass behind them. And they were talking about we're going t o move command posts. They were really involved in trying to decide what they were going to do here, so I didn't really disturb them too much. My concern was moving my command post t o where I thought it would be safe.
Q. Both of the buildings are standing a t this point?
A. Both buildings are standing. And I did not take my radio out of my radio charger in the car and I couldn't see McCahey. I was looking south. I couldn't see McCahey. I was trying to use my cell phone. My cell phone didn't work. I was trying to call Hooper Street or headquarters so that they can get on the radio and tell McCahey to meet me north.
Before I got out of the car, by the way, let me backtrack, before I got out of the car, I was telling McCahey I'm north of the bridge. I'll meet you down there. By the time I got down to Ganci, I felt that being north of the World Trade Center was better than being south. So now I wanted to get a landline.
I remember at one point -- and I don't know if it was the first time I encountered them or the

L . GARCIA
second time -- people were talking about moving their Fire Department command post north. So I felt that the f i r e marshals' command post should be north. I guess
it may have been the first time I saw them because for some reason I started moving north on West Street
again.
I went back underneath the bridge, walked north on West Street. I couldn't use my cell phone. I was trying to use my cell phone. Then I thought maybe I should get a landline so I could at least call headquarters, call Chris Tempro and have them radio Richie McCahey and the rest of the marshals to meet me up north.
Q. Can I ask you one follow-up to something you mentioned before? You saw Chief Downey, Chief Ganci and B i l l Feehan outside the World Financial Center. During the time you were there, did you ever see Tom Fitzpatrick with those three?
A. No, I did not see Tom Fitzpatrick.
Q. Okay.
A. I walked north. Now I ' m north of the bridge
and there's some firefighters around me, there's firefighters walking down past me south and there's some firefighters milling around. I don't know exactly

L. GARCIA
what they were doing. I turned around, I heard something, and I thought the facade and just the facade of the south tower was coming down, and one of the firefighters near me was saying holy shit, and I think he felt the building was going to collapse. I wasn't convinced of that at first. I thought maybe it was just some facade falling. All of a sudden there was a rumble and you see the building starting to collapse. At that point I ran north on West Street as fast as I could possibly run.
Q. At the point where you noticed the building was falling, were you south of Vesey?
A. I was south of Vesey. I was probably midway between Vesey and the north bridge, that north overpass. I was probably midway there. And the building started falling and I started running and a lot of people started running. Whoever was around me started running.
Q. Northbound?
A. Northbound. We were running northbound up West Street. At one point I could turn around. I turned around over my shoulder and I just saw this cloud. I mean, the building collapsed. There was a cloud coming at you. You knew you couldn't outrun the

L . GARCIA
cloud. You just kept on running trying to get away from it, but you're not going to outrun it, so you kind
of resign yourself to the fact that you're going overcome by the cloud. You don't know what's in
cloud. You saw a l o t of papers flying around i n
cloud, but you didn't know what solid material was in the cloud, what structural members or facade was in the cloud that could be coming at you, so that you just
kept on going. You're overcome by the cloud. You heard things hitting around you and you say to yourself I hope nothing h i t s me. What can you say?
Q. At that point, or just prior to that point, did you know any of the people around you? Did you see anybody you recognized?
A. No, I did not. I remember before the cloud got to me there was a fireman near me running with me, but when the cloud overtook us, you can't see
anything. You had zero visibility. What I did was I ran into some fire trucks. You ran into them. All of a sudden you saw a light in front of you flashing where the flashing lights were on and you just kept walking. You couldn't breathe. You can't breathe. You had a very tough time breathing and you're just saying to yourself I hope I get out of here. Your mouth is full
to be the the

L. GARCIA
of dust, concrete dust, whatever other kind of material there was in the dust and smoke. Your mouth and your nose is full of all that and you're just choking and you're trying to breathe. There comes a point in time when that dust cloud settles or the wind takes it away from you and it becomes easier and easier to breathe and all of a sudden it's clear.
Q. Any concept of how much time passed before that happened?
A. I mean, it seemed like a long time, but it could have been only two or three minutes. It seems like a long time when you're in the middle of it. At that time you looked at yourself, you're just full of this dust from head to toe, your helmet, your coat, everything. And I turned around and started walking back to see what was happening. The second building, the north tower was still standing, smoke coming out of it. I'm walking back to see if I could find Ganci and Feehan and the rest of them and see what we're doing here now. I still didn't have communication with the rest of my troops. I don't know where the rest of my troops were. I don't know how this collapse affected them. So I'm walking back towards where I last saw the command post.

L . GARCIA
Now, at this point I'm north of Vesey. I'm probably a block north of Vesey. I probably walked to a block north of Vesey. So I turned around and started walking south, got to around Vesey Street or past Vesey Street and I saw some Chiefs there, I saw a lot of people were there full of dust and trying to clean themselves off, spitting, getting it out of your mouth.
Q. Nobody you recognized i n t h a t group?
A. No, not yet.
Q. Okay.
A. And at one point someone comes along with a
water bottle and gives me a water bottle to wash my face off and wash my mouth out with. And I ' m walking now -- here is where my memory might be off. At one point I thought I saw Ganci and Feehan and I'm not sure if I really did. I'm very hazy. But I do remember seeing a Chief and it may have been Ganci, but there was a Chief there that said we're moving the command post two blocks north, which is the last thing, when I heard Ganci and Feehan the last time, they were considering moving the command post north. Now we're
moving it two blocks north and people are walking north now .
Q. The second building i s s t i l l standing?

L . GARCIA
A. The second building i s s t i l l standing.
People are starting to move towards me north and everybody is full of this dust and ash or whatever you want to call it. And the reason I'm saying I thought I saw Ganci, it may have been someone saying Chief Ganci
i s ordering.
Q. So you moved north on West Street, you were moving toward --
A. No. I'm moving south on West Street now.
I've turned around and I'm moving south. So now I'm up to Vesey Street. I moved back towards Vesey Street where I ' m encountering people moving north and these people are saying either Chief Ganci ordered it or I saw Chief Ganci, either one, or I might have seen Steve Mosiello. I ' m not sure. But they said the command post is being moved two blocks north and Ganci's name
i s being mentioned. At that point I encountered Jerry Sheehan. During that time, during the time period before Jerry Sheehan, I might have seen Chief Pete Hayden over there. I believe Hayden was over there around by Vesey Street.
Jerry Sheehan is the lieutenant in charge of the NYPD Bomb Squad. He's an old friend of mine. I've known him for 20 years. And Jerry and I were trying to

L. GARCIA
use our cell phones. At this point I want to get ahold of the marshals and just tell all marshals to stay away from the building and Jerry wants to get ahold of his Bomb Squad people. Neither of us had radios and neither of us had cell phones that were working.
So I walked one half block west on Vesey Street, on the north side of Vesey Street, one half block west of the West Side Highway, of West Street. There was a building and there was a parking lot in front of the building with cars in it and on the bottom floor was a bagel shop, like a bagel coffee shop type place, and Jerry and I went in there and we started using landlines. So Jerry made his phone calls and I made my phone calls and I was on the phone with Chris Tempro at headquarters.
A VOICE: That's the Embassy Suites?
CHIEF GARCIA: I don't know what the building
is but there's that shop. It's the north side of Vesey.
A VOICE: Is it all the way down towards - -
MR. McALLISTER: The movie theater; is that the one you're talking about?
A VOICE: Yes. The movie theater is on the corner there.

L . GARCIA
CHIEF GARCIA: Well, there was no movie theater in front of us. There was a parking lot there. The movie theater might be in the building on the upper floor.
A VOICE: Yes.
CHIEF GARCIA: And I got on the phone with
Chris Tempro and I was going to tell him just get on the radio tell all fire marshals to retreat from the building, anybody south go south, two blocks south, anybody north go two blocks north of the building. I also had encountered James Devery, Jim Devery, Supervising Fire marshal. I encountered him on the street, on West Street, and I saw Fire marshal Sal Rignola. This i s while I was walking down on West Street before I went on Vesey. Fire marshal Sal Rignola was there and he had a radio and he couldn't raise anybody, which made me worried about what was happening. He couldn't raise anybody on his radio.
But I later found out that McCahey lost his radio when the building collapsed. I told him I was going to go down to the shop.
So Jerry and I went down to the shop. I was getting on the phone. I got Chris Tempro on the phone when the second building suddenly collapsed and we

L . GARCIA
could see the second building collapsing through the windows of this coffee shop. We were half a block from West Street and the collapse was just on the other side of West Street and we saw it collapse. To me it was a faster collapse than the first collapse.
Q. That was the south tower?
A. The first collapse was the south tower. The second collapse was the north tower.
Q. Okay.
A. The north tower was now collapsing, but to me it was a more violent collapse. I don't know why. I think because the first collapse, to me, I thought at first, before it collapsed, it was just the facade going. This seemed to all of a sudden go down. To me it was more violent. It may not have been in reality, but to me it was more violent.
We got away from the windows. I dropped the phone and we told everybody that was in the coffee shop
-- because the people who worked there were in there
-- to get away and there were some firefighters or EMS workers there and they were giving us a bottle of
water. We got away from the front windows because we thought they were in danger of blowing into the establishment. We went around into a kitchen area.

L . GARCIA
There was a door right in through a kitchen area right by the phones and we were looking around the corner to see what was happening.
The collapse occurred. This cloud again. Once again, we've got this cloud, this dark cloud of dust and smoke and whatever else is there. We get that coming towards the windows. The windows did not break inward.
The collapse was subsided, so we came out. I got on the phone with Tempro. I told him the second building just collapsed.
Q. Was it dark outside the window?
A. Yes. You can't see anything. It was zero visibility. The building had just collapsed. I said get the marshals on the radio. See who you can get on the radio, number one, if you get anybody on the radio, and, number two, t e l l them t o get away from these buildings.
We went to the front door of the coffee shop and myself and Jerry Sheehan started calling to
people. So we were right outside of the door of the coffee shop. We started calling to people to see if people would come to us because we wanted people to get into the coffee shop. And some people did hear us. We

L . GARCIA
could hear them out there and we were calling to them, calling to them. We got them into the coffee shop to get some water on them, on their faces. The people who owned the establishment were trying to help out with the victims.
When it started clearing a little bit, I saw Chief Brian O'Flaherty. Chief O'Flaherty said to me don't touch my arm. He was injured. Obviously, he was injured. His face was cut up. He looked like he had a broken nose because he was bleeding heavily from his nose, and he was holding his arm, so I knew he had a broken arm or something seriously wrong with his arm.
I sat him down in a chair and I started talking to
him. I know Brian for over 20 years, probably 25
years, and we got an ambulance. There were ambulances west of us. On the water there were ambulances. There was a triage station set up. So we were trying to direct Brian off the chair after we washed off his face to go to the triage. We were going to get him to the triage station and get him an ambulance.
Also coming in from West Street down Vesey Street was Pete Hayden being carried by two firefighters or two officers. He could hardly walk. He really needed help walking. We were trying to get

L . GARCIA
him an ambulance also. We
and we did some treatment.
very little first aid, but
and helping them try to get their breath back. At that point I got some EMTs that had some of those gurneys or whatever.
Q. Back boards?
A. Not even back boards but gurneys, the ones that roll along the ground, and they were starting to take people back to the ambulances.
Q. About how many people came into the coffee shop?
A. It could have been as many as ten, twelve. You know, they were coming in and out. If they were able to leave, they would leave. They would wash off and get themselves composed and leave.
Q. Uniformed and civilian people?
A. Mostly uniformed people. EMS people, too. Mostly EMS people and firefighters. I do remember one woman being carried was a civilian.
When I went back out, now i t ' s cleared, Brian O'Flaherty has been taken care of, Pete Hayden, Chief Hayden has been taken care of. Myself and Sheehan walked back towards West Street. West Street, of
got him into the bagel shop We gave him some first aid, just washing their faces off

L. GARCIA
course, is a mess. The bridge is now collapsed. The north bridge is now collapsed. I see Fire marshal Rignola and he has a radio with him still and I said to him can you get somebody on the radio? He did get somebody on the radio. I forget who it was. But they were south of the World Trade Center. They were south on West Street, way south.
He told me that he jumped into a tower ladder when the second building collapsed and that a piece of metal went right through his tower ladder, his front windshield. He was down on the floor and it just missed him. So he survived because he had gotten
himself saw the Q.
down on the floor in his tower ladder. But I tower ladder. The cab was like demolished. So the tower ladder was stationary at the
time; nobody was operating it?
A. No, nobody was operating it. It was just
stationary. It was just parked there by West and Vesey. He just jumped in there to get away from the collapse and this piece of building went right through the front windshield. Luckily he had gone down. He was on the floor.
At that time Chief Fellini - - and I can't tell you how long after. Everybody was kind of

L . GARCIA
wandering around on West Street wondering what they were going to do. Some of the fire Chiefs were saying we're moving north, we're moving north. That seemed to be the theme for a while, moving north, moving north, you know, before the second collapse, and then after the second collapse it was the same thing, l e t ' s move north. At one point I saw Chief Fellini finally arrived. He was there for some reason and he started taking some charge of the situation and he told everybody we're moving north.
I think everybody's concern at this point
was, of course, who was trapped. There was no order here a t a l l . They were taking about where Chief Nigro was and someone said Chief Nigro i s i n the command post south; he's all right. People started realizing Chief Ganci wasn't around. And this i s just general talk.
Q. down West
A. buildings cars that
Can you describe what you saw as you looked Street?
Down West Street, well, what I saw was two down, smoke coming from two buildings. The were in the parking lot, there was a fire in
the parking lot in front of that bagel shop I was in. It was like a big, open, empty lot with cars in it. There was a fire that started there and it was

L. GARCIA
spreading to other cars and once in awhile you'd have some explosions there and the fire actually after a period of time got pretty big because it was multiple cars. Several cars were going at once. So some debris from the building was burning and must have landed there and started these cars on fire. So you had this black smoke coming from these cars that were on fire, which no one paid attention to. We all said so what; let them burn themselves out. And you also heard what I thought were gunshots.
Later on, in a conversation with Jerry Sheehan, he told me those were real gunshots. Police officers that were trapped were shooting their guns off to try to draw attention to where they were trapped. I found out later on that Commissioner Dunne was trapped in a car in the first collapse and before the second collapse had happened the Bomb Squad had brought a car down because Dunne couldn't walk. He has a bad knee. If you noticed, he's been on crutches for a while.
Q. Right.
A. So a Bomb Squad car had gone down and gotten Commissioner Dunne right before the second collapse occurred. Commissioner Dunne had been north of Vesey Street when the second collapse had occurred because he

L . GARCIA
was taken out by car. He had been first trapped in a car in the first collapse. These are stories I've heard afterwards. And when Fellini got there things started to come into order.
My concern, of course, was the fire marshals. So I was concentrating on trying to reach
fire marshals. At one point I found out that Rignola, McCahey and a bunch of marshals were south of the World Trade Center and they had moved towards Battery Park. And I knew I had fire marshals down there.
What I didn't know was that Supervising Fire Marshal James Kelty had l e f t the golf course and was i n
10 Engine when the collapses occurred with his brother, captain of 10 Engine. He described to me what happened there. When he got there, there were people injured coming out of the buildings and they were trying to treat people and bring them into 10 Engine and try to treat them, and what they thought was a third plane hitting was really at that point the first building collapsing.
Q. 10 Engine i s on West Street?
A. No. 10 Engine i s on Liberty Street, on Liberty Street just east of the plaza. Why they didn't get touched, I don't know. I mean, the firehouse is a

L . GARCIA
little beat up, but it was still standing. It's right on Liberty. Here's Liberty.
A VOICE: Right here?
CHIEF GARCIA: Yes. Where i s the Trade
Center?
A VOICE: This i s 2 World Trade right here. A. Y es. T h e y ' r e r i g h t h e r e .
Q. Okay. Got it. It's directly south of 2
World Trade?
A. Yes, 2 World Trade Center.
Q. Gotit.
A. And they were treating people and everybody
was just trying to get to radios to see how they were.
As time passed, I was
of my marshals were.
me north of the World
on everybody coming north, but he said they were safe down south, but he also told me Chief Nigro was in a command trailer by Battery Park, that he was okay, that Chief Cassano was okay, but no one had seen Ganci or Feehan. The word was circulated that Ganci and Feehan were trapped or had been involved in the collapse. There was no t a l k about Ray Downey. But Ganci and Feehan definitely. I saw Steve Mosiello.
able to determine where the rest Chief McCahey came around t o meet Trade Center because I insisted

L. GARCIA
After that they were just trying to organize parties to go in there and try to get people out, and I saw my marshals. Basically what we were going to do at that point was stand by to see what we could help out with the digging and we would later decide how we were going to conduct an investigation and what kind of investigation was going to be conducted.
Q. Did there come a time then when you did set up a command post north of the site?
A. Not really. What we did was we used the site south. I had more marshals south than north. But there was no real formal command post ever set up. I hung around. I was near the command post they were setting up north of Vesey. I was near that command post. And the concentration at that time, it's not investigation, but everyone is thinking about how to get people out, and people were trying to break up into crews, it seemed like they were trying to break up into crews, but there was a lot of confusion. There was a lot of confusion.
Q. Any idea approximately what time it was now, at this point in time?
A. This has got to be I'm going to say about a half an hour after the second collapse. Before then

L. GARCIA
really everybody was in a daze. Everybody was just trying to assess the situation, and it was a tough situation to assess.
Q. Sure.
A. I don't think anybody had ever seen anything like this.
MR. McALLISTER: Are there any follow-up questions? It's pretty clear to me.
Q. Chief do you have anything else that you'd like to add, any other observations that you may have had on that day?
A. Not really. My observations are that, I mean, we've never had a situation like this. From an operational point of view, even though I'm not a Chief in operation, a fire Chief, I was a firefighter at
Rescue 1, I was a lieutenant in the South Bronx fighting fires, and I had never seen so much fire in a high-rise building. Never. Even when I was in Rescue 1 as a fireman in rescue in Manhattan. I have never seen more than one floor going and an entire floor. You're talking about multiple floors and the entire floor from west to east, north to south, an entire floor burning. That's a lot of fire. I don't think we were capable of putting out that much fire in a

building.
L. GARCIA
My other observation is that the airliners crashing into the building may have weakened the building, but that is not what caused the collapse. What caused the collapse was the intense fire from the jet fuel that continued burning along with combustible materials on multiple floors and the fact that the building was built with a core construction. The floors were supported by the core and also by the skin of the building, the steel outer skin of the building. That's how those floors were supported. So here you have an airliner coming in, one airliner came in straight and hit on an upper floor, that was in the north tower, and it hit probably in the 90s, the floors it hit. The upper 90s it hit. The second plane, which caused the first collapse, as it came into building banked, it banked, so the wings, if you saw the film, the wings hit multiple floors now. Now the amount of floors that were hit were greater because the wings had banked. So then you have the wings going into floors above and below the main fuselage of the plane, and it also hit near the corner and it hit on a lower floor, probably 20 floors below, somewhere in the 80s, in the low 80s, 83rd floor, somewhere along there, 83rd floor,

L. GARCIA
81st floor. That's where the second plane hit. Now, that's in the south tower and that's the first tower that collapsed. So you have that plane hitting.
Now you have all this intense heat, you have heat probably up even close to 2,000 degrees burning here. Steel joists and steel I-beams, at 1,200 degrees of heat they'll expand nine inches per hundred foot of steel. So per hundred foot of steel, steel will expand nine inches. So you have this expansion going on because they've been subjected between 45 minutes to an hour and a half to heat now. The second tower to collapse was the first one hit. That was an hour and a half after it was hit.
Q. What do you estimate the temperature was at that time?
A. Reaching 2,000 degrees in those towers. So now we're going to have these this steel expanding and also it starts warping and twisting. So once it was weakened to that point, the steel, besides the crash, it was weakened by the fire, which really caused it to collapse, one floor started collapsing into another floor, and that's what caused the collapse. So it was really the fire more than the plane crashing into the building that caused the collapse.

L. GARCIA
How do we operationally treat that in the future? I don't think we can. I think we restrict our efforts to try to get people out of the building, but we don't have enough water or enough manpower to get up in that building and put out a fire that's that extensive in one of these buildings.
Q. In the period of time?
A. In any period of time. It will burn itself out before. Either the building is going to collapse or it's going to burn itself out. In the Empire State Building, the Empire State Building would not have collapsed. It's different types of construction. It's not core construction. It's masonry, it's columns, it's heavier built. But then, of course, you don't have these big, open spaces. In the Empire State Building it's more compartmentalized.
Q. Right.
A. So a building like the Empire State Building would not have collapsed. You would have had a huge fire there, you would have had a lot of floors burnt out, you would have never put out the fire, it probably would have burnt itself out also, but the building would have stood. This type of construction, I don't think we'd ever be able to put out a fire like this.

L. GARCIA
We restrict our actions to evacuation rather than trying to put the fire out, and that's the only observation I could make.
MR. McALLISTER: Does anybody else have anything? Okay. It's now 11:48 a.m. on October 2nd, 2001. This concludes the interview with Chief Garcia of the Bureau of Fire Investigation. Thank you, Chief.

File No. 9 110003
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW CHIEF MARK STEFFENS
InterviewDate: October3,2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins

M. STEFFENS 2
MR. McALLISTER: I'm McAllister from the Bureau of Administration. We're interviewing Chief Mark Steffens of Division
1, formerly the commanding officer at the OfficeofMedicalAffairs. Thedateofthe interview is October 2nd, 200 1. It is now 2:47 p.m. This conversation is taking place in conference room 8E13 at Fire Department headquarters.
I'm also joined by --
MR. CAMPBELL: Patrick Campbell, fire marshal.
MR. STERACE: Fire Marshal Michael Sterace.
MR. McALLISTER: And Chief Mark Steffens.
Q. Chief Steffens, I'd like to draw your attention to the date of September the 1lth,
200 1, and I'd like for you, in your own words, to describe your experiences from that day.
A. I normally start work at 9:00, so 8:50 I was still home showering, getting ready for work. Isawwhathappenedonthetelevision going on. I heard what happened. I saw

M. STEFFENS 3
initially the first tower on fire.
I got dressed as fast as I could. I
got into my department vehicle, and I proceeded
all the way to the Kosciusko Bridge down the BQE. My next recollection is being on the FDR Drive.
I don't remember how I got from the BQE to the FDR Drive.
My next recollection is I'm coming down the FDR Drive. I get down to about the Staten Island ferry terminal, and I couldn't get any hrther. Civilians were running everywhere. There was smoke in the air, and the white powder was in the air. I think only the first tower had dropped at that point.
Q. Had dropped?
A. The people who were running, they said thefirsttowerhaddroppedalready. SoIwould imagine this is probably like about -- I'd say somewhere between 9:15 and 9:30, thereabouts, by the time I got into Manhattan.
I abandoned my vehicle at about the StatenIslandferryterminal. Ipulledover
there, by where they have the chopper pads on the East fiver. I abandoned my vehicle. I put a

M. STEFFENS 4
mayday on the radio that I was abandoning my vehicle because I did not have a portable radio with a charged battery at that time.
SoIgotout. Iwasonfoot. Iwas
heading up South Street to Division 1 on foot. That was as far as I got. Coming down South Street was Jerry Bacchus, who was the ALS coordinator for the EMS command. He picked me
UP.
Q. He was in a vehicle?
A. He was in a suburban. He had the
suburban stocked with medical supplies. He picked me up, because I was on foot at that time. I got in the suburban with Jerry Bacchus. We went down the drive, under the hole, out onto West Street. We got up to about the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel.
When we got to the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel, about that point on West Street, there wasaPortAuthoritycopstandingthere. They were shouting, "The tower's going to come down. The tower's coming down. You've got to get out of here."
Q. What were you able to observe at that

M. STEFFENS 5
time around there?
A. Black smoke. Black smoke and people
running everywhere. A lot of fire apparatus on both sides of West Street. I didn't see any guys, just apparatus. I saw some stretched lines and things like that.
So we continued to drive into the smoke cloud. We got to maybe one block north of where the Battery Tunnel exits onto West Street there, and then, boom, a massive explosion. fight in front of us we saw what looked like a fireball
and smoke. It was rolling this way.
I said, "Jerry, we've got to get out of this hcking car." I'm afraid --
Q. That's okay.
A. I'm afraid -- so we bailed out of the truck.
Q. This is your recollection.
A. We bailed out of the suburban. We went underneath it. The thing blew over us. I had my turnout coat on. I put my face in my helmet. The thing blew over us. I felt heat. I felt all kinds of debris and stuff hitting my body.
When I opened my eyes, it was

M. STEFFENS 6
pitch-black. I closed my eyes again. I was praying. When I opened my eyes a second time -- and it feels like each one of these instances was
a long period of time, but I don't know how long it was.
When I opened my eyes a second time, it was like skiing in a blizzard. It was just
white, a sea of white, and everything blowing all around. So I felt okay. "Jerry, we've got to
get out of here."
We got out from under the vehicle. We
got back in the vehicle. We jumped over the divider and started driving back down West Street to the battery. We got to battery -- we put the vehicle up against where that old fortress is
right by the Holocaust memorial. There's an old fortress right where the Statue of Liberty ferry terminal is.
Q. Sure.
A. We put the vehicle up against that wall, and each one of us climbed into one of those cubbyholes.
Then there was another it sounded like an explosion and heavy white powder, papers,

M. STEFFENS 7
flying everywhere. We sat put there for a few minutes. It kind of dissipated. We pulled the vehicle out, right down to the battery. We turned on the emergency lights, and it became a casualty collection point.
Q. Had you been in radio contact from the time you were on West Street?
A. The last radio contact was when I maydayed when I bailed out of the vehicle. No other radio contact after that point.
Q. There wasn't a radio in the suburban?
A. There was a radio in the suburban, but
I don't recall that we were using it. We were running at that point. We were coming down West Street. One of the EMS guys was running. He was
just dressed in blue, covered in soot, bleeding from under the face like this. We grabbed him. We threw him in the back of the suburban. We pulled down to West Street.
When the smoke and all of that dissipated, we turned on the lights. It became a casualtycollectionpointthere. AlltheEMS people were running down West Street. They collected by our vehicle.

M. STEFFENS 8
All kinds of vessels, barges, little
small pleasure craft, everything was just pulling up to the dock, and we were putting civilians -- there was one police lieutenant -- I don't know his name. He did a fantastic job. And we just evacuated as many civilians onto these boats and sent them to Jersey.
My guys established that casualty
collection point. We were doing eye washes and boo-boos and giving out whatever masks we had to civilians and to cops like that. We were there
for what seemed like a couple of hours at the battery until the point there was nobody left,
just the emergency service people.
At that point I became aware of an EMS
operation that was going on in the Staten Island ferryterminal. SoIgatheredupmyguys,andwe walked on foot to the Staten Island ferry terminal, where I was reunited with the other folks that established the casualty collection point at the Staten Island ferry terminal there.
I was there for a couple of hours, and
then we were all directed to report to the command post which was at Chambers and West.

M. STEFFENS 9
That was early afternoon. We regrouped and were given various assignments. I was sent to command the Chelsea operation.
Q. So you think that when you were on the drive the smoke you saw was probably from one of the aircraft and not from a building?
A. No, because it wasn't heavy smoke. You could smell fire. I know the smell of fire, and
I have been around long enough. So I recognized the smell of fire. But there wasn't all of that debris or anything flying around in the air.
There was just people, people everywhere, people running.
I got to the point where I couldn't go
any hrther with my vehicle because there were peopleinthestreets,onthedrive. Sothat's when I decided to bail out of the vehicle, figuring I could make better time on foot.
Q. Sure.
A. My thought was let me go to Division 1, group whatever I could so we could go to the incident site.
Q. When you were on West Street approaching the World Trade Center site, do you

M. STEFFENS 10
think that's when the first tower that came down? A. I think it was the second tower came
down, although I don't know for sure.
Q. Was there a lot of debris while you
were still going on West Street? A. No.
Q. Powder?
A. No. A lot of fire apparatus, a lot of engine companies like that.
Q. The street was clean?
A. It seemed wet. There were stretched lines. I didn't see my guys. This seemed weird to me, all this apparatus but no guys. There were lines stretched on the ground but no guys.
Q. So it was clear while you were going up West Street?
A. Yes. That's when we heard this massive explosion and I saw this thing rolling towards us. It looked like a fireball and then thick, thick black smoke.
Q. Is it possible the second one occurred while you were in the battery?
A. The second one had to have occurred while we were at the battery, because that's when

M. STEFFENS 11
all this white stuff started flying around.
Q. That sounds right.
A. But the time line -- I don't know when
these things actually occurred in real time. I
was home at 8:50. I had to be in the car before 9:OO. I was just about dressed. I was shaving, putting on the finishing touches, when I saw the thing on the news. I ran to the car. You can
look at my unit history in the CAD system, see what time I logged on and proceeded down there. It took me a while to get down the BQE.
Q. It seems like there was about a 45-minute period, between about 9:45 a.m. and
10:30.
A. 8:45.
Q. No, I'm talking about where the both the buildings came down. I'm not entirely accurate on that, but that's what it seems like to me, at the time.
A. It seemed like the time frame between
what we saw on West Street and what occurred when we were at the battery, it seemed like they happenedclosetogether. ButwhenIthinkabout
the things that occurred during that period of

M. STEFFENS 12
time, it couldn't have been close together
because too many things happened. But it seemed like they happened very close to one another.
The whole thing seemed like it happened very quickly from getting no hrther with the vehicle so let me just pull this car over and
bail out, what I can do on foot. I didn't get more than a block or two -- you know where the fire station is on South Street?
Q. Yes.
A. That's where I was. Jerry picked me up right there. We went right into the hole, came around up onto West Street. I didn't know what the hell -- when the Port Authority cop tried to stop us -- he waved and said, "No, the building's going to come down."
At that point I wasn't listening to any cop. My thought was I've got to go there. My guys are there. Then boom and the cloud. I didn't want to stay in the vehicle. I was afraid that the windows were going to blow out. My reflex action was to get underneath it.
Q. How did the vehicle survive when you got out from under the vehicle?

M. STEFFENS 13
A. Just covered with soot. It didn't blowout any windows or anything like that. I guess we weren't close enough. So the vehicle survived. It had a lot of powder and stuff on the windshield like that. At that point I was just gratehl to be able to get in and get the hell out of there.
Q. Is there any follow-ups? I want to
know, did you see anybody on the way that was present that you knew besides the guy that picked you up, Bacchus? Anybody else? Did you see anybody else from the Fire Department?
A. No. No, I grabbed the one EMS guy. I never saw him before. I remember his name is Badillo, Benjamin Badillo, an EMT in the Bronx. He just came out of the cloud, poor kid, covered, bleeding down the face. I grabbed him and said get in this truck, and the three of us bailed out
to the battery.
Q. Any follow-ups?
Do you have any other observations,
Mark?
A. When I went back to recover my vehicle,
I recovered my vehicle and caught up with Chief

M. STEFFENS 14
Basile and Chief Villani. We were going to go look for their vehicles. We drove out onto West Street. I came from the Statue of Liberty ferry terminal. My car was on the east side, so it was fine, it was okay.
We drove back down again. We weren't able to go down the hole. We went onto West Street. When we pulled onto West Street, it was
just like nothing I've ever seen in my life. All the apparatus, the fire trucks, everything all blown out, the windows were all blown out, body parts lying on the street, mud, soot, people walking around dazed.
I saw one proby -- he had a proby on
the helmet -- by himself, walking by himself. I tried to get him to come with us. He said, "No, no, I've got to go back. I've got to go back." We washed his eyes. I gave him something to clean his face. Then he turned around and went back into the cloud. I never saw him again.
There were lines stretched --
Q. Do you recall his name?
A. No. Young, young guy. He had a proby on the front of the helmet.

M. STEFFENS 15
Q. Any numbers on there?
A. I can't remember. I can't remember at all. I didn't want him to go back, and he wouldn't listen to me. I wasn't going to hold him back. He walked off.
Q. That was after the second or after the first collapse?
A. After the second. He just walked back into that big, black cloud.
That's as much as I recall.
Q. I appreciate your time today. Thank
you very much. Thanks, Chief.
A. I'm sorry I couldn't be of more help.
MR.McALLISTER: It's3:01p.m.,and the interview is now concluded.

File No. 9110004
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW PARAMEDIC MANUEL DELGADO
Interview Date: October 2, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis

2 M. DELGADO
MR. McALISTER: This is Kevin McAlister from theBureauofAdministration. ItisOctober2ndat
2:03 p.m. We're in conference room 8E13 at Fire Department Headquarters, and in a moment we will begin interviewing Paramedic Manuel Delgado. I'm here today with ...
FlRE MARSHAL CAMPBELL: Patrick Campbell, Fire Marshal.
FlRE MARSHAL STARACE: Michael Starace, Fire Marshal.
MR. McALISTER: Now we'll start with
Paramedic Manuel Delgado. He's assigned to the Office of Medical Affairs.
Q. Drawing your attention to September the Ilth, could you describe where you were working that day and when you became aware of the World Trade Center incident?
A. It must have been about five to 9:OO. 1 got
a call from Joe Farrell, who is a DOH rep from the
Bureau of Emergency Services, the Department of Health, calling me saying what's going on at the World Trade Center? I had no knowledge of it. I looked
immediately to the CAD, the computer-aided dispatch system, in the computer. I noticed that there was a

3
1040,aplaneintotheWorldTradeCenter. Icalled him back and advised him of such.
At this point, one of the doctors that was
here, Dr. Cherson, I advised him of the fact that there was a 1040 going on and maybe, you know, it's part of our response matrix.
Q. What's a 1O4O?
A. An airplane into a building.
So I called Commissioner Clair, who at that
time was up in Albany in a CMAC meeting, let him know what was going on, and I told him I would get back to himassoonasIgottothescene. Myself,
Dr. Cherson, and we met up with Dr. Guttenberg, who is the EMS fellow in the office downstairs, us three proceeded to get in Dr. Cherson's car and drove across the Brooklyn Bridge.
Obviously, when we were driving across the Brooklyn Bridge, it was very obvious that there was something serious going on at the World Trade Center. There was a gaping black hole. It seemed like the upper floors, and I don't know exactly -- now I know through press reports what floor more or less was hit, but it looked to me like the top ten floors were fully engulfed in smoke at this time.
M. DELGADO

4
Q. How many of the towers were burning; one or two?
A. One. Only one at this time.
So we went across the Brooklyn Bridge, had a
little trouble navigating through the traffic, and
finally arrived at the corner of I believe it's West Broadway. Let me look on this map real quick. West Broadway and Vesey.
As soon as we arrived, 84, a massive
explosion goes off, and at this point we didn't know what it was. We thought it was a secondary explosion. Wedidn'tknowthatitwasasecondplane. Infact,I didn't know there was a second plane until much later in the evening.
Anexplosiongoesoff. Iimmediatelytell everyone to get out of the car and hide somewhere, go underneathsomething. It'sinterestingbecause,aswe were there, there was a police car, I guess, on Vesey, on the corner there, and some debris comes down from whatever this explosion was, at the time we really
didn't know, and it just crushes it, I mean, crushes
the top front of the police car, which really scared me
at that point.
Q. Could you tell if it was airplane parts?
M. DELGADO

5
A. It looked like an airplane part afterward, yes,itdid. Itlookedlikepartofanengine. Itwas pretty big. It was probably the size of the hood because it kind of hit it, bounced, and then rolled off.
So then at that point we were approached by a police officer holding one of his cops with a massive evulsionoftheforehead. Ineedthecar,Ineedthe car.
Q. What does that mean in layman's terms?
A. An evulsion is the scalp sort of like was
peeled back. So there was some heavy bleeding. It was worse actually than the injury. She still had her consciousness. Hesays,Ineedthecar,Ineedthe
car.
So Dr. Cherson proceeded to West Street to
the temporary command center at that time. Me, the cop and the cop who was injured and Dr. Guttenberg got into the car and drove this cop that was injured down to Beekman. We drove the cop to Beekman, dropped her off. At that point people were being mobilized at the hospital itself.
Dr. Guttenberg and myself then jumped back in the car and went back to the site.
M. DELGADO

6
Q. When you say you went back to the site, where exactly did you go at that point?
A. Well, we couldn't get back to where we were
on Vesey and West Broadway, so we ended up on -- now, let me look on the map here. Up further. Broadway
itself, Broadway between, I would say, Fulton and Ann Street, I guess it is. Fulton and Ann, yes. We kind
of left the car there in the middle of the street and proceeded to walk down to the West Street command, which was a command post at this time.
When I got back to the command post, I was
able to secure -- because everyone's cell phones seemed to be dead at that point. Luckily, one of the
lieutenants there handed me a cell phone. I was able
to call Commissioner Clair, who was still in Albany,
telling him at this point we had a very, very serious incident going on, and that I don't know how he and the other physicians who were up there could get themselves down here as quickly as possible because this was a major terrorist attack. So he told me that basically
the state police were securing a chopper for him and
the other two physicians to fly them down. That was my last communication with him.
So we were at West command for a while.
M. DELGADO

7 M. DELGADO
Dr. Cherson moved forward to I believe it was in another command post. I don't know what building this was. At this point it becomes really crazy.
Q. Can I ask you a detail question before you get there?
A. Yes.
Q. The West command, I see it located here on the map roughly at the corner of -- what is that, Vesey and West?
A. Yes. That looks look Vesey and West, I guess?
Q. Yes. That's the north bridge, I think?
A. Right. We were just in front of the north bridge.
Q. Could you describe, were you on the east side of West Street, the west side?
A. We were on the west -- well, no. I would say theeastsideofWestStreet. Iguess,onthemiddle, there's like a barrier here, sort of like a potted, planted barrier before you get to the financial
district area. So we were all standing there. The vehicles or the staging, which is the area where the ambulance was set up, was back here on West Street.
Q. Who was with you at that point in time?

8
A. At that point, Dr. Cherson was with me. I sawCommissionerDruryshowedupatthescene. Hewas withusthereforalittlewhile. Hewaslookingfor CommissionerGregory. CaptainJacePinkusfrom Communications was there and an assorted amount of EMS LieutenantsandFireOperationspeoplewerearound. I remember at one point seeing the Mayor. I saw Commissioner Von Essen. Really, at that point, I
really lose sight of what was going on because there wasanhorrificsite. Imean,peoplewerestartingto jump or fall from the top.
Q. You were able to observe that?
A. Yes, definitely. We saw them jumping from here down and that was really horrific. There was nothing you could do for them. We wanted to go in after them and they basically told us don't because it's very dangerous at this point.
Somewhere along the line Dr. Cherson was told that -- and I don't know who relayed this information
to him. I guess it's Vesey command, but actually it
was on Church between -- I was closer to Cortlandt and I don't know what street this is. Dey Street?
Q. Dey Street.
A. Actually, that's where the command post was,
M. DELGADO

9 M. DELGADO
a triage command, and we were told that they were getting hammered. So what happened was that myself --
Q. That was a staging point for medics and EMTs?
A. Yes, right. Exactly. That's where mainly
all the medics and EMTs were starting to treat people as they were exiting the building. So myself -- well, first, before that, Dr. Cherson tells Dr. Guttenberg to go back to the car and get the weapons of mass destruction kit, which is basically the TUPAM, the atropine and the narcotics that we carry in case of a biological incident. That's what immediately we started thinking. So Dr. Guttenberg goes back to the car.
At this point, also, at the north bridge, we
ran into Dr. Asaeda, who got down there on his own response. So Dr. Asaeda was going to set up a command over in the lobby of OEM. What building is that, 7?
Tower 7?
Q. 7 World Trade Center.
A. 7 World Trade Center. So Dr. Guttenberg and Dr. Asaeda were to set up their command -- there were already some medics and EMTs in the lobby of 7 World Trade Center. So they were going to set up their own triage and command center there. Dr. Cherson and

10 M. DELGADO
myself then walked back to the Vesey command. But at this point it wasn't right on Fulton. I remember Cortlandt more than I do Fulton, although it might have been. I don't know. I remember the opening of the building and seeing the north tower right in front of
me. That I remember very clearly.
We were getting hammered with patients. At
one point we wanted to move forward and again we were told do not. Dr. Cherson made it very clear, don't go
any more forward because of the bodies and everything else that's coming down.
Q. So now, just stopping you at that point, both of the towers are still standing?
A. Both of the towers are still standing, yes.
Q. You're looking basically straight at the north tower?
A. Right.
Q. You're looking across the plaza of the World Trade Center?
A. Yes, right, and people are exiting this way indroves. Imean,therewasjustastreamofpeople running, running, running, and basically at this point our triage was, if you're walking, keep walking, and if people are being carried or people were falling, we

11 M. DELGADO
would move forward, and we moved forward as much as in between towers I believe this was 4 and 5, buildings 4
and 5.
Q. That's right.
A. I know we went in there and helped some
people come out, some lady, who she ended up in the pictures, in a red dress, who was extremely burnt.
There was another guy who had to have second and third degrees over about 80 percent of his body, and he was carried out halfway and I guess collapsed or someone dropped him and just ran. We picked him up and started bringing him out.
At this point we were getting an influx of equipment, LSU unit, like the logistical support units
who carry the oxygen and all that stuff. They were coming into the area to give us oxygen, to give us blankets, and then units were also coming in. But we were getting inundated with patients. We had more patients than we had ambulances. We were stuffing four and five people in an ambulance at this point. I mean,
it was just to get people out of there with minimal treatment. There was nothing you could do.
Q. At that point in time, did you see anybody
you knew either from the fire or the EMS side working

12 M. DELGADO
the ambulances? A. Yes.
Q. Who did you see?
A. Quite a few people. There was Carlos Lillo, who I later found out he's deceased.
Q. Where did you last see Carlos?
A. Carlos was with me and it's interesting
because Carlos always had a smile on his face, and Carlos has been around for a while, and I remember at one point on Church we had like four or five
critically, critically ill people who were laid out and
there were people still streaming out, and this is
after, where we're moving back and forth trying to get people in and out, I remember turning and seeing Carlos with his helmet and tears pouring down his eyes, and at first I thought maybe this guy is overwhelmed, maybe he needs to get out of here, you know? I go to him,
Carlos, what's the matter? What's going on? He says, my wife's in there. I said, listen, man. This is
God's will. You've got to help me with the people.
Snap out of it. We've got a lot of patients. You've
got to help me here. So he does and he begins to do what he has to do, which is to help me treat people and start sorting who is bad and who isn't.

13 M. DELGADO
Now, time, I have no idea, time factor here.
I don't know what is five minutes, what is two minutes, whattooktenminutes. IknowthataLieutenantshowed up with the LSU unit, again, and says, I need help gettingoxygenoutofthebackofthisvehicle. I remember seeing oxygen tanks in a milk crate.
By the way, the other people who were here were Lieutenant Bruce Medjuck, who is from the EMS operations,CaptainJaniceOlszewski. Iremember seeing -- Dr. Cherson was there with me. I lose track of who was there really. I mean, I remember Lillo because it sort of stuck out in my mind that this man was crying so hard and like it kind of -- he was out of place because I was wondering for a slight moment, said, what's he doing here? He's a Queens unit. But at this point I figured everyone was being brought in and who knows what the heck is going on.
Q. Did you lose track of him then or did you see him?
A. Well, it's interesting because I didn't lose trackofhimbecauseIwasconcerned. Iwasconcerned of the fact that he was overwhelmed, I think, by the
fact that his wife was in the building.
Oh,youknowwhoelseIsawthere? Gabe

14 M. DELGADO
Depena.
Q. Delapena?
A. Delapena, yes. I saw him also there because
at one point he goes, Manny, Manny, what's going on? He's another one that was searching for his wife because I believe his wife was in the tower.
Q. I think that's right.
A. Yes. But I tried to keep my eye on Carlos as much as I can. I'm dealing with the people that are coming out. There's some other people there that I don't really know their name. I know their faces. A black gentleman that works down for operations also. In fact, there's a picture of them both treating that lady that I'm talking about with the red dress in one oftheTimemagazinesthatIforgothisname. Itwill come to me in a minute. But anyway, we're treating.
I remember at one point or another this Lieutenant coming in and asking for help to get the oxygenoutofthevehicle. Igotohelphim,andat
that point I remember not seeing Carlos, and I don't knowifhewasthereornotthere. Butimmediately once I put the oxygen down, I hear the rumble, and I heard a rumble that we thought was another plane. That's what immediately everyone said, there's a plane

15 M. DELGADO
coming, there's another plane coming.
So we all looked up and what we saw was
tower, I guess, 2, the south tower, begin to do this. The top kind of did this and there was a horrendous rumble.
Q. Now, your hand is showing that it's kind of tilted in one direction. What direction did it tilt?
A. It was tilting towards us, so it had been to be tilting eastward.
Q. East?
A. Maybe southeast. I'm not sure because at
this point it's total pandemonium. At that point we heartherumbleand,youknow,thisisit. Ifigure I'mdead. Ithoughtthistowerwasgoingtotopple.
So I start to run. I remember running -- I don't know which way I ran. I don't even know what street I ended upontobeveryhonestwithyou. Iran--itmust
have been either this or Fulton. One of these two.
Q. Dey Street or Fulton Street?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know if there was a church next to
you?
A. I don't know. I know there were stores up
the block. So I start to run --

16 M. DELGADO
Q. So you definitely headed east; you're just not sure down what street?
A. Yes. I didn't want to go west. I figured
let me go east. There's a subway station somewhere here, so it may have been Fulton maybe?
Q. Yes, it was. It's a major station there.
A. I remember seeing that and I remember saying I'm not going down there because I don't want to be suffocated, I don't want to be suffocated. But as I
ran, I got knocked down by it seemed like even someone punchedmeintheback,likeablastitseemed. It
just kind of picked me up and knocked me down. I scraped my elbow, I twisted my ankle, my pants got all ripped, my glasses got blown off and the helmet came off. I get up quickly and all I can see now is just --
it had to be on Fulton -- the blast, this dark cloud
coming at us, at me anyway, because I don't even know who's around me at this point. You kind of lose all -- Ilostalltrackoftime. Ilostbasicallyallbody movements and I was going on, and then we're engulfed in the smoke, which was horrendous.
One thing I remember, it was hot. The smoke
was hot and that scared me. I've treated in 18 years many, many people with smoke inhalation, and I know the

17 M. DELGADO
consequences of inhaling heat. So I got really
scared. I tried to put my T-shirt over me. That didn'twork. Icouldn'tseebecausemyglasseswere shot. Icouldn'tseebecausemyeyeswereirritated.
Like one guy said, it was like breathing cotton balls,
that's what it felt like, because your mouth was just
full of this shit and your nose, everywhere. I'm
running -- not running because I'm walking now. I'm afraid. I'm thinking in my mind I'm going to die of suffocation or somebody's going to run me over, because you couldn't see your hand in front of you. That's how darkitgot. Iwalkedintooneortwopoles.
Then out of -- I don't know. It was God's miracle, basically. I don't even know how I ended up there. Iwasonthecornerand,asIwastellingthem
just before you walked in, I heard a banging and I walked towards the banging and there was, as later I found out, it was a Fire Marshal and a cop, a detective
in plainclothes, who were banging, trying to break the door down in one of these computer stores on the corner there.
Q. Do you know the marshal's name?
A. No. He did take our names down, so he should have a record of it. I haven't been able to find out

18 M. DELGADO
who he is. So they're banging on the door, and I remember telling the cop, you know, you have a fucking gun, you have a fucking gun, use it, use it, we're
Q. Sure.
A. That's exactly what he does. In between his coughing, he takes out his gun and the first bullet doesn't break it. Second one, the glass comes down. It must have been a thick glass. We were able to get inside.
Q. So he fired off two shots?
A. Two shots, yes. Then inside there's, I
guess, like a gate, sort of like the gate that we have downstairs in that store, an inside gate. So we see that and we're like, oh, shit. So, finally, us three,
we hold it up and we let the civilians get underneath.
I think there were one or two of them. There weren't a wholelotofthem. Ormaybethree. I'mnotevensure at this point. They go under and we hold it for each other and we go under and we go into the store. We walk up some escalators to the second floor, which looked to be like a computer store. We started looking for water or anything to wet ourselves to clean off our

19 M. DELGADO
faces because we're all coughing and hacking. We find a water fountain and we all basically drink from that and wait for the smoke to clear a bit.
Q. Is the smoke in the building, though?
A. Yes. And the smoke alarms are going off and who knows what else is going off. There's smoke but it'snotthatbad,though,soyoucouldsee. It'sa haze. It's sort of like when you're in a club and you see the haze, you know, it's hazy, it's not necessarily black,pitch,acridsmokethatwasoutside. Iwould say about five or six, seven minutes go by while we're inside. It seemed like an eternity, you know what I mean? So we told the civilians, look, just head towards the water. Leave. Get out of the store. Go towards the water and keep walking. Just keep walking. Don'tgothisway.
The three of us proceed -- and I don't even knowwhatstreetitis. IthinkitwasFulton. It
might have been Dey Street. I don't even know what street it was. We start heading back. I believe the store was probably on Broadway. I think I made it that far up. I'm not even sure, though. It had to be because it couldn't have been on Church.
Q. Itwasn't J & Rwas it?

20 M. DELGADO
A. No. I knowwhere J & R is over by City
Hall. No, I wasn't that far. It had to be around
Broadway. So I remember we go outside and I lose track of where they went and I start heading down I guess
it's Fulton Street and I heard the rumble again. So
now it's the second tower coming down.
Q. Now, just prior to that, had the air cleared outside?
A. Yes. It had cleared to the point where you
could see. It was still smoky. There was still a
heavy smoke condition in the area and dust, I mean, and papers and debris and God knows what else was in the air. But it looks even like snow sometimes because that's kind of coming down from everywhere.
Q. Were there any people out on the street at that point?
A. There were people walking around, yes, in a daze. It looked like a moon landscape really. The
lights were on, cars were driving by, and then more
dust would be kicked up. I remember walking down and then I heard the second rumble, and I don't even know where it was now. I'm not even sure if I went back to Churchorwhat. Butweheardthesecondrumble,turned right around and started running again and went -- and

21 M. DELGADO
I remember just going -- I don't even know what
street. Now that I look at this map, I don't know what streetIwasattobehonestwithyou. Idon'tknowif
I got back to Broadway or -- I know I ran backwards, not backwards, but I turned around and started running back up again and went into there was this liquor store--notaliquorstore. Itwasaclothingstore
and there were some people in there already, and I got in there, and there was also, I believe, another Fire Marshalinthatstore. Idon'twhohewas. Ithinkhe was a Fire Marshal. I'm not sure because he wasn't a cop. We were able to use the phone in there to try to call out, but whoever I was calling, I was trying to
call some of my people but their cell phones weren't working. That was it.
Then, at that point, five, fifteen minutes
went by, I guess, before the smoke cleared again. There were very few people in the street at this
point. I ended up on I guess it must be Fulton over by Beekman Hospital. There's a little triangular square. It's not even a park. It's like a little square. I
ended up there and I ended up running into
Dr. Cherson. That's the first time I saw him since the incident went down. Then we ran into Bruce Medjuck,

22 M. DELGADO
Lieutenant Medjuck, and Bruce had a radio, because Alan's radio was blown off of his pocket or whatever and I don't know where it went, and he told us that we were assembling down at the ferry. That was going to be the main place to try to get people treated there because we weren't going to get around to West Street or to Chambers Street where they were trying to set up another command post because both buildings at this point were down.
So that's what we did. We walked -- I don't
know where we walked, but we walked downtown all the way to the ferry terminal, and at that point Chief
Basile was there with his aide and some other people were there and we started to get ready for mass casualties to see how many people were coming and who we could try to help. But there were no patients.
Nobody was coming.
Q. Not a single patient came to the ferry terminal?
A. A few scratches, bumps, bruises, people who had already left the building way before, some people with some difficulty breathing, one guy with a broken ankle, another one with some trauma to the chest, but nothing life threatening, that was the big thing.

23 M. DELGADO
Nothinggory. Imean,theywerewalkingwoundedfor the most part, and that's all we treated.
So a bunch of physicians came from surrounding hospitals, nurses. We got all our resources together, established a critical and a noncritical area, and that was it.
Q. How long was that area set up?
A. Well, from the time we got there, they had
already started to move the benches to cordon off the area, and I guess within 20 to 30 minutes the site was
set up to accept critical and noncritical. Then our resources started coming in more rapidly, so we were able to get a lot more stuff like extra equipment,
blankets, cots. So we had about 20 or 30 critical
areas to treat and Dr. Cherson at that point was the
Chief medical officer there and started assigning physicians and nurses who were there and medics to certain areas. Then at the street level we had a
staging area where the ambulances were being mustered and somebody was taking care of that area. I don't
know who he was, some Lieutenant. But nothing ever came.
Q. How long did you stay there?
A. We stayed there until about, I guess, 4:00

24 M. DELGADO
o'clock, and later on I found out this happened about 10:00,1guess,whenthisthingcollapsed. Itmust have been about 10:OO.
Q. Roughly, yes.
A. So it must have been about 4:00 o'clock.
What we did is we found out that they were setting up a commandpostonChambersandWest. Sowesaidlet'sgo back and try to find Dr. Cherson's car, see if it's
still viable, which we did. We went back to Broadway where it was between Fulton and Dey. Is that Dey
Street or whatever it is? There it was in the middle
of the street. Amongst all the dirt and everything elsethatwasthere,thecarwasthere. Itwasfullof
dust on the inside. We ended up driving to Battalion 8
first to wash it off and try to clean off some of the
dirt and dust that was all caked onto the vehicle, and
then we went to Chambers and West, where the command post was set up, stood there for a little while, and
then building 7 collapsed.
We were very far and at this point I remember being there and they said it's collapsing and I didn't even give a shit anymore because, first of all, I was far enough away from it that I kind of knew it's not going to freaking hurt me and, really, I don't know if

25 M. DELGADO
I was just in a mood that I just didn't give a shit or
I felt kind of safe. People started running back and I was just ...
At this point my leg started to hurt me, which is interesting. All through the day it didn't hurt me. But I started feeling a tinge in my ankle.
So building 7 came down, the OEM building,
and then they moved back forward and the command post was set up and we started hearing of the casualties.
That was sad. That was sad because a lot of my friends are dead. A lot of them. On both sides. And that's a shame. That's a shame. But basically that was it.
I'd say about 9:30at night, I hitched a ride
with some vehicle that was coming to Brooklyn and they dropped me off on Tillary and Flatbush and I hobbled in here. They gave me clothes and stuff and told me to take a shower and that was it. I came back to work the next day, still not understanding, still not really --
which was interesting because, when I got home that night, I got to see the incident. I lived it, but I
had never seen it, because I had never seen the planes hit or anything. We thought they were bombs going
off. We didn't know. We were being told later on that
the Sears Tower was hit and the Pentagon, and you hear

26 M. DELGADO
all this shit, but you don't know. Actually, when I
got home that night, that's when I got to see the
actual footage of the plane hitting. It was
horrendous. More so when this thing collapsed. That noise? I can never forget it. And the people jumping, the people hitting. I mean, 18 years I've been a medic inthiscity. I'vebeenthroughtwoplanecrashes. I have never seen the destruction.
Another thing I've got to tell you is, when
we first got there, when we were walking down Vesey towards West, there was a ton of -- or I could say a lot of body parts and like baggage, clothes and stuff, along Vesey.
Q. From one of the airplanes.
A. Yes, from one of the airplanes. I don't know if it was the first or the second because this was after the second one had hit. So it could have been from either one. But I remember walking --
Q. Where was it, though? On Vesey?
A. Right in front of the OEM, because on the OEM building side there was a scaffolding and I remember I was walking underneath there. We kind of felt that there was some protection underneath the scaffolding. I remember as we were walking down, after we had

27 M. DELGADO
dropped that person off, when we were walking down Vesey, I remember probably between -- what's this?
Q. Church?
A. No. Probably between Broadway and West, I remember seeing body parts.
Q. That's West Broadway.
A. Yes, West Broadway and West on Vesey. I remember seeing body parts and I remember saying to myself where the hell did these freaking body parts
come from? Where are these coming from? There was a few. Imean,somerecognizable,somethatdidn'tlook
-- like they were probably charred, and also like luggage stuff, like we saw a lot of shoes, even some luggage, airplane parts, engine. There was an engine on the left here. If you remember, building 7, there used to be that overpass over by building 7. Just in front of it.
Q. The concourse.
A. Just up before that, there was like a little plaza?
Q. Right.
A. Right there, there was like a big engine
part. It seemed like a whole engine was right there, lying right there in the middle of the street.

28 M. DELGADO
Q. Covered like the way the jet looks?
A. Yes. In fact, you could see the fan. I
remember that because I could see -- now, it wasn't the whole engine because the engine is big, but I know the front part of it, it looked like the whole engine
because I could see the fan, and that's what stood out
in my mind. There was an airplane tire also there and then these bodies and luggage from the thing because there were shoes everywhere also. Some shoes had what looked like blood in it, other shoes didn't, other
shoes were burnt, and this was just a first
impression.
I guess the severity of this whole incident kindofstruckmeasIwaswalkingtoWestStreet. I knew that this was a serious, very serious event going on, because in my lifetime I have never seen that much destruction, that much carnage. Never. Never in my lifehaveIseensomethinglikethat. Everythingfrom bombings that I've been to, to airplane crashes at LaGuardia, I've never seen something to this magnitude, and it kind of woke you up to say the least.
Then over here people, you know, the guys weregoingintothebuilding. Imean,itwas horrible. Itreallywas. Itreallywas. Andthatwas

29 M. DELGADO
it. I'mheretodaybecauseIthinkthegraceofGod. . l had a few patients who I wish I could have carried away,
but you didn't have time. You didn't have time to
think. Idon'tknowwhereLillowent. Idon'tknowif
he went this way or he went that way. Where did he go? Idon'tknow. It'sinterestingbecause,ofthe seven or eight people who were there at this location, none of us ended up in the same place. It's sort of
like roaches and you turn the light on, you know what I mean? Everyone scattered. Wherever you saw or you thought there was an opening, that's where you went. Obviously, no one went towards the building, but we all scattered in different directions.
We eventually ended up meeting after the
second explosion, three of us met up here, but I didn't
see a lot of the people that were with me until two,
three days later. I got word that they were okay. For instance, Dr. Guttenberg and Dr. Asaeda, who were at 7 World Trade Center, they got trapped in there and had
to like climb in and out and get out because that
building also became very damaged supposedly and they were there. We thought they were dead. I guess he was in an area where Commissioner Tierney might have been,

30
I believe. I think she was in 7 also. Soit'sjustthegraceofGod. Imean,there
was a tremendous loss, but I think that more people survived than really should have to be honest with you withthedestructionthatoccurredthere. Imean,you guys have been to collapses. You know what I'm talking about. You have a three-story building collapse, you knowthedestructionthatoccursthere. Magnitudethat now by a hundred freaking stories coming down on your head.
Q. Andbytwo.
A. Yes. And two of them. So it was the grace
of God that any of us that are alive are here, truly it
is, because it just should not have been. Luckily and unluckily, I guess, the building pancaked. But if that buildingtoppled,thereain'tnoway. Ittookless
than ten seconds for that blast of air to knock me down because I remember saying to myself, I got ten seconds to hide, thinking that I may have that long. I don't
know why it came into my mind, ten seconds, but I figured I got ten seconds, and I could only maybe have run 50, 60 yards in that time period, and it just
knocked me over.
Q. Just the force of the air?
M. DELGADO

31 M. DELGADO
A. Yes. It just knocked me over and just threw me, and that was it. I thought that something had hit me. I thought like a piece of metal or something had hit me, and there was no metal, because when I turned around, I saw the blast of black air coming at us, at
me anyway, and that was it. That's it. That's the
story.
MR. McALISTER: Do you guys have any follow-ups?
FlRE MARSHAL CAMPBELL: No.
FlRE MARSHAL STARACE: No follow-up for me either.
MR.McALISTER: Iappreciateyourtime. THEWITNESS: Sure.
MR. McALISTER: Thank you very much.
THE WITNESS: No problem. Thank you.
MR. McALISTER: It's now 2:35 p.m. and we're
going to conclude the interview.


File No. 911005
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW DR. MICHAEL GUTTENBERG
Interview Date: October 2, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick

MR. MC ALLISTER: This is Kevin McAllister fromtheBureauofAdministration. It'sOctober 2, 2001, at 1510 hours. We are here with Dr. Michael Guttenberg from the Office of Medical Affairs.
Also with me are --
MR. CAMPBELL: Patrick Campbell, Fire Marshal.
MR. STARACE: Michael Starace, Fire Marshal. Q. Dr. Guttenberg, we'd like to draw your
attention to September 11, and in your words, we'd like you to describe what you experienced on that day.
A. Okay. Actually, I was just coming in to the office and was on line waiting for breakfast when the pager went off for the assignment for the World Trade Center.
I picked up the cell phone and got in touch
with Dr. Shearson and Manny Delgado from the office, whowerealsoleavingtorespond,aswell. Imetthem in the parking at MetroTech, and we proceeded to respond. I don't recall the exact street, but we went over the Brooklyn Bridge, and as we were about one block away from the assignment, there was an extraordinary loud explosion.

3 M. GUTTENBERG
There were people starting to evacuate from
the area, and then we noticed the tower that was
burning -- and as we were one block away from the assignment, we heard an extraordinarily loud explosion, and with that, many more people went running in the opposite direction, at which point there was, I guess,
a few seconds of radio silence, and then somebody came over the air and said, "A second plane just hit the
other tower." At that point --
Q. Can I talk for a second? I apologize.
As you were coming over the Brooklyn Bridge,
do you recall approximately what time it was? A. 48 -- I'm going to say it was
approximately -- the second plane hit at what, 9 -- I don't recall the exact time.
Q. Roughly 9:lO, 1 believe.
A. It was 9:10? So we were coming over the Brooklyn Bridge. Had to be about just a couple of minutes after nine, five after nine.
Q. What were you able to observe at that point on the Brooklyn Bridge?
A. From the Brooklyn Bridge and actually from Flatbush Avenue and Tillary, as we were going towards the Brooklyn Bridge, we noticed the tower that had been

4
M. GUTTENBERG
hit, and the upper floors were -- well, we could see flames and a large amount of smoke billowing from that one tower, and that's all that we observed from a distance.
Couldn't see much else, and at that point, actually, it was picking up the cell phone and attempting to start making some, you know, notifications and just that this was a real assignment.
Q. And what did you notice from the time you were on the Brooklyn Bridge until the moment you alluded to a few seconds ago, about the second plane hitting?
Could you describe what you observed from the streets?
A. I was actually -- I was in the back seat of the car, so I didn't see anything above me per se without having my head out the window, which it wasn't.
What we noticed was actually a lot of people ofvariousassortments. Mostpeopleinsuits,people on their way to work, being -- and in a somewhat orderly fashion, being evacuated.
Everybody was sort of between the traffic

5 M. GUTTENBERG
department and the police was trying to pull everybody away from the -- away from that area. The buildings were evacuating and people -- the streets were packed with people, all -- most of which were attempting to move in the opposite direction from the towers.
Like I said, I don't recall the exact
street. Manny was driving, and we were coming down that one block. I wasn't looking up, and just out of nowhere was this tremendously loud explosion.
The truth of the matter was, we didn't see
the other plane coming in. I thought it was a second explosion from the first plane, and then it was some radiosilenceforjustacoupleofseconds. Iguess
people were kind of floored by what they just saw, and then there was somebody keyed up on the radio, from the EMS citywide radio, that said that was a second
airplane, and then at that point we were within a
block.
As we were actually coming down -- and I'm going to presume, but don't hold me to this, it was possibly -- it was actually one of the side streets, and Ijust don't recall.
At that point, we were getting ready to
actually park the car a couple of blocks away, and we

6 M. GUTTENBERG
got out of the car, and we were approached actually by
a couple of police officers who were in plainclothes,
one of which was holding her partner up, was holding her partner, and she was bleeding from the forehead and had some other assorted injuries, but was walking and was just screaming, "Just take me to the hospital."
So Allen, Dr. Shearson, got out of the car,
started to proceed up to what was at that point the designated command post, and myself, and Manny and this other -- and the two police officers, we threw them in
the back of the car and brought them over to New York downtown, and then we proceeded back to the incident site.
Q. Do you recall the injured officer's name?
A. No, we didn't even get that far. It was
about a one to two-minute ride. I was holding direct pressure, talking to her. It was a female officer, who
had a laceration across the forehead. We pulled up to New York downtown. There were people already outside some of the -- and we assisted her in, and we just
left.
Q. Did she say how she received that injury?
A. From something flying, flying off, you know, off the building, and Manny was probably better off at

7 M. GUTTENBERG
this. I'mnottotallyfamiliarwiththisarea,but Manny proceeded back to the incident location.
Once again, at that point, there was a greater urgency on the part of the police to move everybody out of the area, and --
Q. Were both buildings still standing at this point?
A. At this point, yes, both buildings were very
much standing. We parked the car, and I don't recall
what street it was on. Myself and Manny proceeded up
to the command post, and at this point actually we
walked -- we probably -- that is what I was going to
say. We probably parked on Church, because we
walked -- I remember we walked down Vesey past Building No. 7 and some other buildings and went to the initial
EMS command post, myself and Manny Delgado.
We met up again with Dr. Shearson, and Dr.
Asaeda at this point was also meeting us on the scene, and the rest of the EMS operations were commencing from there. I,atthatpointthenwentbacktothecarand grabbed the poison antidote kit out of the car, not
knowing what to expect or what was next, came back to the site, and at that point, you know, the decision was made we were going to split up a little bit, and there

8 M. GUTTENBERG
were going to be some forward triage and treatment areas.
Q. Before you go forward, could I backtrack for onesecond?
A. Yes.
Q. When you went back to the car to get the kit, could you describe what the conditions were like during the walk both to the car and back, anything you may have observed?
A. It was actually -- the streets were, at least
the walk down Vesey Street, the street was remarkably empty. The only people that were out there were some firefighters, police, FBI-type agents.
There were some fire trucks, which were unattended by and large, and some hose line, and there was some meager attempts at putting up some police tape. The other thing that I noticed, like I said, and
it was very few -- they were, like, few to no civilians
at this point, and it was really an effort to move
people forward.
The other thing that was actually evident, though, is what appeared to be some plane parts, like some circular pieces of a plane, and lots of shoes. I don't know if that was women jumping out of their --

9 M. GUTTENBERG
jumping out of their heels to run, but there were --
just impressed me there were no -- you know, there were
no injuries on the street at that point, but there was lots of shoes all over the place and plane parts. It was the same thing in both directions.
At that point, like I said, I went back to the command post.
Q. Just one other follow-up. I'm sorry. Did you see any of the unit designation
numbers on the engines that may have parked out there? Do you recall any of the numbers?
A. No, no. The only thing that was kind of bizarre actually -- and I don't recall if it was --
which direction I was walking at the time, but actually I think Chief Nigro was walking down Vesey Street at this point, too, and he was actually by himself, but he was walking down the street somewhere.
The -- went back to the command post, and at
that point we decided to split up a little bit. Allen,
Dr. Shearson, and Manny went off somewhere, and myself and Dr. Asaeda proceeded to the loading lock of World Trade Center No. 7, which would be pre-
Q. No.7ison--thisisNo.7,here,I believe. Where is the loading dock?

10 M. GUTTENBERG
A. It was on the Vesey street side. On the
Vesey Street side, and we were in the process of
setting up. Not anticipating the buildings were going
to come down in such a fashion, we proceeded to set up a triage treatment area in the loading dock. Myself, Dr.Asaeda--therewasoneortwoEMSbossesthere. I don't recall who they were, and lots of personnel.
Most of the EMS personnel that were there were actually from the voluntary hospitals, some Lenox Hill paramedics there, and from some other voluntary hospitals, and there were some FBI agents down there, as well, some people from the Office of Emergency Management, who were actually upstairs and supposedly brought some supplies down to us.
There was only one patient in there at that
point, and that was an elderly gentleman who was really there more for exhaustion, not claiming any injury, but anticipation was obviously our patients were going to come down.
While we were there, we started to hear this rumbling sound, and this was probably five, ten minutes after we got into the loading dock. We heard this rumbling sound and, you know, the rumors were there of additional planes missing, and actually, my initial

11 M. GUTTENBERG
thought was this was actually another plane, and there was the loading dock, and then it was like the top of the dock, the garage, and then the loading dock.
Just off to the right, there was a door with
a fairly long, narrow hallway, and at this point, there
was probably between police, and FBI and EMS people, was probably about 20 plus people in this loading dock area.
Q. Do you know anybody there?
A. All of us -- Dr. Asaeda, and just by face
some of the EMS providers. We all stuffed ourselves into this hallway, pulled the door shut, and the noise just got very loud and the room filled with dust. The noise stopped, and we opened up the door, and everything was pitch black.
The way we got into the loading dock was not the way we were getting out. It was obstructed.
Q. The door was blocked?
A. Yeah, and we found our way -- we walked across the loading dock area, and we found there was another door. We went in that door, and from there we were directed to -- I really guess it was like a basement area of the building, but we were directed to an opposite door.

12 M. GUTTENBERG
Q. What looked like was blocking the original entrance?
A. You know, there was a couple of people who actually pulled some of the -- that pulled the actual garagedoorsdown. Ithinkthatandsomedebris. It was too dark at that point.
We walked our way through the loading dock by feel. We got to the opposite side. We found our way out of one of the back doors of No. 7 and came outside, and actually the truth of the matter I still hadn't realizedthatitwasthetowerthatcamedown. I
thought it was another airplane, and I looked up, and
it was after, you know, everything was sort of pitch black, and there was dust flying everywhere, and I looked up, and it didn't strike me at first, but when I looked up, all I saw was -- I saw the tower with the antenna, and I remember when we went in, that was -- it seemed to be the more distant tower when we started, and you know, there was -- and now, that's what struck me.
It wasn't making sense just yet. We found
some patients, who were just walking around in a daze or experienced some inhalation type of injuries. There were a few ambulances there. We basically threw them

13 M. GUTTENBERG
in the back of the ambulances. We told the providers who were there, just go far, go to another borough, take them somewhere else, and with that, the rumble started again and the second tower came down.
Q. Let me stop you there.
A. Yes.
Q. When you came out of No. 7, do you recall
what side of the building you exited on?
A. We -- I ultimately ended up back on West
Street, so I'm going to think -- and it was some
packing lots and stuff like that. So I actually -- I
think I came out by Barclay, and proceeded back down -- ultimately proceeded back down to West.
There were some parking lots in the area.
There were other some buildings around, and just by where I ultimately ended up and continued to run, I was on West Street.
Q. So that's where you were treating patients prior to the second building coming down?
A. We were treating patients, yeah. We were treating patients around here, and from there we proceeded up to -- and then the second building came down, and not really knowing what was going on, we ran a few more blocks.

14 M. GUTTENBERG
At that point, we settled the street just
past --just after Chambers. We passed the school. We saw Stuyvesant. Just right around Stuyvesant, Chambers, in that area, within one to two-block radius above and below.
We tried to re-establish ourselves one more
time in some sort of triage treatment area, not knowing what was happening. We were just tracking down who was around, trying to get some ambulances into that area to stageinthatarea. Itseemedatthatpointthatwe
were a safe distance away, and then all of a sudden everybody started running again and saying there's a
gas leak under West Street, and literally, fire
engines, police, whoever was left standing at that
point, everybody just started running north on west
towards the piers, and --
Q. time? A. Q.
Did you know anybody there at that point in
On West Street?
Either at the time you were treating the
patients before the second tower came down or in the time you were heading north toward --
A. Yeah, Dr. Asaeda from this office. Joe
Cahill, who is one of the ALS coordinators who works

15 M. GUTTENBERG
out of MetroTech. He was actually on a -- I guess on a train on his way in to work, and so he came on his own, but he was assisting us there.
I just -- a lot of faces that I knew from the voluntary hospitals who were there, and I guess those were the people who stand out most.
Another person was actually one of the nurses who works at the hospital where I work, and mostly by face, not really by name.
Q. So what happened after you heard of the possible gas leak?
A. Started running. Everybody sort of picked up and ran. There was a passing police van with very few passengers. As they were driving, I opened up the side door and dove in and got away a few more blocks, got out and started to, you know, I guess attempt to regroup.
At that point, the decision was over the
radios that everybody was -- the attempt was to get everybody to stage up at Chelsea Piers and regroup up there and define what resources we were going to need, so that's where I -- at that point, I went up to
Chelsea Piers and up to the EMS command post.
Q. Any idea what time it was at that point?

16 M. GUTTENBERG
A. At that point, it was probably getting close to eleven o'clock in the morning, and that's where I spent a good chunk of the rest of my day.
Q. A long two hours.
A. A horrible two hours. I mean, there was a
lot of running more than anything, and, you know, by and large, it was bizarre only because I really -- I actually felt more numb than anything throughout. I didn't know what to feel or what to expect, and I think a lot of it was just bizarre that way, not knowing what was next.
Q. A. Q. A.
Did you have a radio on? Actually, I didn't.
Transmissions throughout?
Actually, you know, I didn't. I'm sort of
low man on the totem pole here of the fellows, so I actually didn't acquire a radio, which they needed up at that point at Chelsea Piers.
Whatever radio stuff I heard was when standing next to other people. I didn't have a radio in my possession for several hours.
Q. I think we need to -- transmissions or anything that's going on that you might have --that stuck in your head?

17 M. GUTTENBERG
A. From that whole day, actually, the two things --well, initially, I don't know what happened as the
buildings fell. There was nobody close enough with an EMS radio at that point when the buildings came down, but I guess initially it was a relative calm on the
radio.
As much as this was not a routine thing, a plane into the World Trade Center, this was sort of something that the resources were available that were beingsent. Everybodywassortoffollowing instruction and doing and operating in a normal fashion. ItwaswhatyouwouldexpectatanMCI.
The part that was really bizarre is actually -- what seemed bizarre is there was the second
explosion, you know, the second plane explosion, and then it was -- at least on the EMS radio, there was absolute silence for probably 10 or 15 seconds, you know, which to me, it seemed like 10 to 15 seconds, but itwasabsoluteradiosilenceforafewseconds. I
don't know if everybody was just sort of --
Q. We were told that the air was so thick with
debris that radio waves weren't able to travel. A. That was after the towers came down. Q. After the collapses, immediately in the

18 M. GUTTENBERG
immediate aftermath?
A. I wasn't really -- you know, at that point, I
was running, and I wasn't close enough to anybody with radio in hand. It was frustrating as hell, I can tell
you, when the cell sites went down, which was right -- really as soon as this incident began. All I wanted to
do after I got out and a safe distance away was actually just call my folks and say, you know, I'm alive, and that was the worst thing.
I mean, it took hours and hours for the cell sites to come back up, at least at Sprint. That was really for me the worst part of this whole thing, was not being able to make a phone call.
In a bizarre way, the best person on the
street there that day was some little old Spanish lady who says I live a couple of blocks from here. She had a pad and a pen, took down a list of names, a list of phone numbers --took down a list of names and phone numbers and called, and she got ahold of my parents about two hours before I did, and -- so.
Sorry I couldn't offer you more.
Q. No, that's great. I appreciate your time,
doctor?
A. No problem.

19 M. GUTTENBERG
MR. MC ALLISTER: Thank you very much. It's now 1530 hours on October 2,2001, and we are going to conclude the interview. Thank you.

File No. 9110006
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW PARAMEDIC JAMES MURPHY
InterviewDate: October3,2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria

2 J. Murphy
KEVIN MC ALLISTER: This is Kevin McAllister from the Bureau of Administration.
It's October 3, 2001, 1224 hours. We are in room 8E13 at headquarters and we are speaking with Paramedic James Murphy from the office ofmedicalaffairs. Iamjoinedby--
MR. DANIEL: Patrick Daniel, Fire Marshal.
MR. STARACE: Michael Starace, Fire Marshal.
KEVIN MC ALLISTER: And James Murphy is with us.
MR. MURPHY: James Murphy, Paramedic. BY MR. MC ALLISTER:
Q. Mr. Murphy, we are going to draw your attention to September II ,2001, and I would like to get your recollections of the event of that day.
A. I was here in the office and someone came downthehall. Ithinktheygotoneofthegroup
pages that there was a job at the World Trade Center and we looked in the computer in the CAD system and saw that there was one, an aircraft incident at the World Trade Center, and then we heard yelling from the office of public information, so we all ran down

3
J. Murphy
there. Becauseweknewthetelevisionswerethere.
And we saw that something had happened to the World Trade Center. A couple of people from the office,
two of the doctors and one of the medics, took off
right away and the rest of us sort of stayed around getting ready to do whatever. And we ended up preparing to go get an ambulance.
We left here, went to Cumberland, got equipment that belonged to one of the guys that worked here who couldn't go out and then went to Woodhull Hospital and got a ambulance and responded from Woodhull Hospital with the ambulance.
When we went across the bridge, it was the last time we saw the towers. We went across the Manhattan Bridge and they were both still standing. We went across, I think, Canal Street.
Q. Were both of the towers burning at that time?
A. Both towers were burning at that time. We
didn'tleaveuntilafterthesecondplanehit. By the time we got through traffic to Woodhull to get the ambulance, I'm not -- the timing on that I'm not sure. The only timing I really know is that we arrived between the time the first tower fell and

4 J. Murphy
the time the second tower fell somewhere on Broadway, around City Hall and I don't remember whether it was at the junction of Park Row and Broadwayorhigher. IknowWarrenStreetisthere somewhere. Whether that was the first place we stopped or whether that was where we actually ended up stopping, I don't know.
We went across Canal Street and then I went and turned and went down Broadway. We were heading into the staging area, which I believe was like on Church Street, somewhere around there, and --
Q. Do you have any idea what time it was at that point?
A. No. We had the radios on in the ambulance, but we didn't hear anything about the buildingscollapsingbecausethesirenwason. The truck was not the newest or the quietest thing in
the fleet, so we couldn't really hear the radios
that well.
We turned down Broadway and as we got down in the City Hall area, there were people
running everywhere and a lot of smoke and dust. We really weren't sure what it was. Which sort of surprised us, because the last thing we saw was the

J. Murphy smoke was really up high.
We saw, then, an EMS Captain, Janis Olszewski, standing in the middle of the street covered with dust waving at us. That's where I'm not sure where we stopped with her
Q. Somewhere on Broadway?
A. Somewhere on Broadway, around City Hall. And whether it was up by Warren Street or farther down,I'mnotreallysure. IjustknowthatWarren street was involved in our stopping at one point.
We started treating some people at that point astheywererunningby. Itwasmostlylikeeye injuriesfromtheflyingdebris. Peoplewere
covered and they were having trouble breathing. Then We did hear a report that the second tower was starting to collapse and the Captain who was with us said, "Let's get out of here." Because she had heardtherumblethen. Ithadreachedusandwe turned and started running and then I realized that
I could drive a lot faster than I could run, so we grabbed the truck and I grabbed everybody else that I was with.
That's when I'm not sure where the stop came. Whether I stopped first at Warren and then we went

6
J. Murphy on,buttheCaptainjustkeptgoing,keptgoing. I
know we didn't stop running until Canal Street. Q. What did you observe at that point while you were running and what was the state of the
street, if you recall?
A. More people running, lots of people. The
dust cloudy saw sort of in the mirror, the second one, as it was coming down. But I was too busy trying to avoid hitting the people that were running in the street.
When we finally stopped to start treating
people, we decided -- the Captain felt safe and we decided we would go as far as she was, because she was obviously under the first one when it came down. She was a little, you know, a little, I guess,
stressed. I don't know a better way to put it.
When she finally felt comfortable, we stopped and started setting up.
We ran into two EMT's and I'm not sure whether it was before we left or after, who had been at the staging area and had to run from their ambulances that had patients in them. Which was not good for them. It wasn't good for us to hear it either. But they started helping us to treat people at the

7
J. Murphy
scene. Again, it was very minor stuff, because
nobody got to us that was pretty badly hurt. Q. The other EMT's you ran into left
ambulances with p-atients in the back near the collapse?
A. Yes. I'm not sure where those ambulances were. They ended up going a different way than us
-afterwards. Oh, b-
ecause we had the Captain. They told her to report to the command post, so those
EMT's stayed with ambulances that were staging somewhere else and we responded to the command post with that Captain.
Q. Which Chief? A. Mittleman
and then went back to the command post and ended up at
Chelsea staging.
Q. Where was the command post that you are
referring to?
A. It was -- I don't even remember where we
went. It was on West Street somewhere. It was on West Street somewhere.

8 J. Murphy
Q. Was it north of Chambers?
A. Yes. At that point we didn't get anywhere back down there until -- I didn't get back down that way until the next day. We stayed up at the Chelsea --the Chelsea Piers, and the three of us got assigned to do various things there: Assist the doctor who was there in setting up the hospital, in arranging which doctors and nurses were going to work in which areas. Because they set up a whole hospital in the Chelsea Piers and we had various tasks of organizing the medical assistance and stuff like that.
That was it until I went back the next day with the doctor. We actually started walking around the site and looking at what was going on. Telling people that they should put their masks on and that kind of stuff. That filled up the whole next week pretty much.
Q. Any other recollections about the date of
the incident? Anything you might have seen that you recall? Any people you might have run into that you recall?
A. I know by the end of the first night --
well, by 10:OO o'clock the first night we had heard

9 J. Murphy
that all of the people from our office were safe,
but that some of them, like the doctors, had lost thingsliketheirglasses. Dr.Chersonwasworking
at the ferry terminal without his glasses and he can'tsee. He'slikeme. Ihavecontactson. He
had lost his glasses so we don't know how he was working,buthewas. Buteverybodyfromouroffice was okay and then we had heard that there were hundreds of firefighters trapped and it was just -- everybody was -- you know, and then you started seeing people from the outer areas. We wondered how they got there so fast. You know, some of these
guys were covered in dust and going back in again.
The first hour went so fast for us. It didn't
seem, because we had to get from here to the place and then back again. We didn't realize that it had taken so long. It was just like moments, it felt,
from the time we left here to the time we were
running from the second building coming down. We didn't even know the first one came down. We had no idea when we pulled up that that's what that was.
Q. So it was still burning when you were in Brooklyn?
A. When we came over the Manhattan Bridge,

10 J. Murphy
you could clearly see both towers standing there burning.
Q. Anything else? Radio transmissions that you recall?
A. No. We took -- we had radios from here
with pretty bad batteries. That was on our
portables. But the truck radio, we got a truck
from -- the actual vehicle radio wasn't very loud
and the truck was really loud, and the siren, so I didn'thear. I'msuretherewasatransmission
about the first building coming down, but we never heard it. And there were three of us in the truck listening to the radio and none of us ever heard it.
The first we knew was when Captain Olszewski told us that one of the towers had fallen. That was the
first we heard.
Then just before the second tower came down we
heard a radio transmission about the second tower is falling. And then the Captain heard the rumbling. We all heard it, but she recognized it for what it
was and told us, "Let's get the hell out of here." Because she heard the first one coming down. We never heard that one come down.
Q. Was it a distant rumble or was it really

J. Murphy
loud?
A. It started off distant and got loud and
then as we started running the sound sort of disappeared in the background with all the other stuff that I was doing and the sound of the ambulance Engine as I started driving.
Q. Did the cloud of debris ever catch up with you or were you far enough?
A. No. Never caught us. That's why I'm thinking that maybe we never got any farther than Warren Street. Tracey and Dee -- we don't know -- we were talking about it and we couldn't figure out whether we stopped farther down or whether we stopped at Warren Street. We are just not sure whether we got any farther down.
The one thing I do remember is after we stopped running, people were actually -- one guy passed us. Everybody was offering us food, drink. We were
sitting treating people and some guy ran past us
with three knapsacks. One on his back, one on his chest andoneon hishandandhestoppedand handed everybody a bottle of water in the ambulance and continued on. We could see the dust cloud and he
just ran in with bottles of water.

J. Murphy Q. A civilian or --
A. A civilian. Other people who were walking away said, he said, "I brought my lunch for work but obviously I'm not going to be working today. Would youlikeit?" Peoplewereofferingusstuffall
over the place.
A city sheriff came over to us and said, "Do
you guys need water to treat people?" We said yes, because we only had the little bottled water in the truck and we knew that wasn't going to last very long. The next thing we know, there is a city
sheriff and two other guys with 5-gallon jugs, probably from -- it said "Poland Spring" on it so it musthavebeenaPolandSpringtruck. Iguessthe guy just opened the doors and started giving it out to people. We had huge bottles of water in the truck to rinse people off.
Then people wanted to rinse their mouth out.
You can't keep having them all put their mouth on
the same thing. Then I went to a little -- a little
tiny, hole-in-the-wall deli and asked the guy for a couple of cups and the guy comes out and gives me a whole case of cups. It's gotta cut huge into his
profit margin, but he didn't care. He just gave me

13 J. Murphy
a whole bunch. So then we started giving sleeves of cups to the ambulances that were sitting there.
Then we moved on. That's actually before we moved to the command post.
Captain Olszewski had to actually go into a store and use a phone, because all of our cell phonesweredead. Iguesstherewasjustsomuch going on on the radio that she decided not to use the radio, just to call somebody. I'm not sure who she called, but then she said, "You gotta take me to the command post."
Q. Any other recollections? A. No.
KEVIN MC ALLISTER: Thank you very much. Interview concluded at 1237 hours on
October 3, 2001.

File No. 9110007
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT DULCE McCORVEY
Interview Date: October 3, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins

D. McCORVEY 2
MR. McALLISTER: This is Lieutenant McAllister from the Bureau of
Administration. It's 1252 hours on October 3rd, 2001. We're in Room 8E13 at Fire Department headquarters, and we're about to interview EMT Dulce McCorvey. I am joined by --
MR. CAMPBELL: Patrick Campbell, fire marshal.
MR.STERACE: MichaelSterace,fire marshal.
MR. McALLISTER: And.
EMT McCORVEY: Dulce McCorvey. Q. I would just like to draw your
attention to September 1Ith, 2001. Give your recollections from the events of that day.
A. The times are a little blurry. I don't remember--Iknowwehadgonedownstairs. It was like around 8:00, and I went downstairs with someone to get coffee. As we were coming up, everyone was running out of the buildings, the elevators. Ialmostgotrunoverbyalotof
white shirts and a lot of gold.
We came upstairs. Everyone was

D. McCORVEY 3
running. We walked by OPI. We saw on the TV screen that a plane had already hit the building, the first building. I pulled the job up on the
CAD screen, and that's what it said, it was a cargo plane (inaudible).
So at that time I went over to my supervisor. One of the docs and one of the paramedics was going out already. She told us to hang back and wait and see what happened. I don't know exactly what she said.
By the time the second plane hit, I had already gone downstairs, gotten my equipment out of my car that was parked outside on Flatbush Avenue. You could see the smoke coming from the buildings, because you could see the buildings from the back of this building. I could see the smoke coming back -- in the back of the building.
I came upstairs. She said, "We've got
to go find an ambulance." There was myself, Jim Murphy and Tracey Mulqueen. We tried calling the different stations. Cumberland down the block, they said to come down and get an ambulance.
We got in my car, all the equipment and the three of us, and drove to Cumberland. They

D. McCORVEY 4
couldn'tgiveusanambulance. Thecaptainsaid they didn't have any available at the moment. We went down to Woodhull. We went through a lot of traffic. We finally got an ambulance. It wasn't stocked or anything. So that delayed us a bit.
We got in the ambulance, and we drove down to the Brooklyn Bridge or the Manhattan Bridge. Idon'trememberwhichbridgewetook.
Q. Did you have a radio with you?
A. We had a radio. We had a portable
radio. The battery died, so we couldn't get any communications out. The KDT in the ambulance was broken, so we couldn't log on. So we were
getting -- I don't remember hearing what they
were saying, because I was sitting in the back of
the ambulance, and Tracey and Jimmy were sitting inthefront. Icouldn'treallyhearwhatthey
were saying.
We were listening to citywide, and therewasalotofcommunication. Icouldn't
tell what it was. We had the siren on, and there was a lot of confusion trying to get around traffic, people trying to get on the bridge, people blocking us.

D. McCORVEY 5
It was the Manhattan Bridge. We got
off the Manhattan Bridge, because I remember getting off at Canal.
Q. There was a lot of non-emergency traffic on the bridge?
A. Yeah. Well, no, they were blocking off the bridge.
Q. Oh, l see.
A. They were diverting them, so it was hard getting onto the bridge. When we finally did get on the bridge, the bridge was here. So it was the Manhattan Bridge.
I don't know what road we went down, because I couldn't see too clearly. We ended up
on Broadway. We were speeding down Broadway following -- there were traffic cops directing everybody go down that way. So we followed them.
We were going down Broadway. I don't know exactly at what point we stopped on Broadway. We saw a captain that I knew her from the academy, and she was full of dust. We didn't know where we were going. We were looking for the incident command center. We really didn't know. We were just going towards the building.

D. McCORVEY 6
When we saw her, we pulled over to help her. She was saying an explosion -- she didn't say the building went down; she said she was under the building when the plane went down. That's what I remember. We tried to calm her down, because she was upset.
Then we heard this loud noise like
another plane. That's what we thought it was, another plane. It was a real loud rumbling. I
can hear a lot of people screaming. We didn't know what it was, and we turned around and saw people running the opposite way on Broadway, running north on Broadway. We could see this big, black cloud of smoke coming up. I said, "Oh, shit."
We turned around, and Janice says, "Run!" So we ran. We started running. We turned around and ran. Janice ran, and Tracey was running, and Jimmy was right behind us. I didn'tseewhereJimmywas. Istoppedand screamed,"Jimmy!" Ididn'tseehim. Hehad gone back and gotten the ambulance and turned around.
He pulled us into the ambulance. We

D. McCORVEY 7
ran into the ambulance. All I could see is behind, because I was in the back of the bus.
All I could see is this big cloud of smoke coming and people just coming out from inside this cloud of smoke. You could see from the side streets, like you could see smoke coming down the side streets, swelling up the road.
So we just kept on going. At one point
we slowed down and we stopped in front of 26 FederalPlaza. Isaid,"Wecan'tstophere.
We've got to keep on going." So we kept on going,andwewentupclosetoCanalStreet. I don't know what street we stopped on. We stopped there.
Q. During that time when you were on Broadway and heading north on Broadway, did you notice any fire apparatus?
A. I saw no fire apparatus. I saw no firemen at all.
Q. Any other EMS vehicles?
A. I saw two other EMS vehicles. Where we had finally stopped, there were two other EMS vehicles. Two guys came out. They were running. They came out without the ambulance. They work

D. McCORVEY
in Manhattan, I'm pretty sure. They said they weren't in shock. One of them was crying. I can't remember his last name.
He said there were two patients in the back of his bus. They were strapped to a long board. Hehadtorun,andthebuildingfellon
the ambulance. So I don't remember (inaudible). I know the guy -- I can't remember his name. They were pretty upset.
Everybody coming out was cops. There were a lot of cops coming out, all full of that white dust. There were a lot of people screaming, crying, hurt, a lot of cuts and bruises.
Westayedthereforawhile. Idon't know how long.
Q. That's near Canal Street on Broadway?
A. Yeah, because I could see Canal up the block, and we were on Broadway.
Idon'tknowthetimes,really. Now it's like a blur, like a million years ago.
We treated people as they needed to be treated, and we tried to help where we could. Somebody brought us water, a big jug of water.

D. McCORVEY 9
Just a lot of cops were coming up. I don't know what precinct they were from.
From then Janice said she's got to find
a command center, so we started going toward the west side and went towards West Street.
Q. Janice is the captain? A. Yeah.
Q. Olszewski; right?
A. Olszewski, right.
SowewentuptoWestStreet. OnWest Street there was a lot of commotion. There was a lotofunits. Isawfiremenwalking,alotof firemenwalking. Theywerewalkingup,all covered in soot. There were trucks going down.
I couldn't tell you what the companies were.
I saw an EMS captain and an EMS chief.
We went up to them, and we saw one of our medical directors. IsawunitsfromBellevue.
Q. Do you know any of their names?
A. The medic unit was Artie Gonzalez and Al Siegel. They're a medic unit from Bellevue. I saw Dr. Richmond. I saw him. l saw Chief Mittleman and Captain -- I can't think of his name.

.
Q. Did they tell you they were coming from the site?
A. No, they didn't say that. We just went up to the chief and told them that Janice was under the building when the plane hit
Then he said, "Well," to the captain,
Q. A. Q. A.
Where did you see them? West Street at West Street.
West Street and --
West Street and -- I have no idea.
D. McCORVEY
WestStreet. ItwasbelowChelseaPiers,way below Chelsea Piers.
Q. Was it south of Canal, do you think? A. It was south of Canal.
Q. On West south of Canal?
A. Yeah. But l don't know names.
Q. How close to the site?
A. AllIcouldseeisalotofsmoke,soI
really don't know how close I was to the site. Maybe Barclay Street? Maybe that far down, Barclay Street? -

w
e couldn't get out of the city, so we ended up at NYU-
D. McCORVEY 11
Q. ?
A. Yeah.
We saw a couple of cops in the hospital. Actually we saw a lot of
cops with injuries in the hospital, minor, not serious.
We went to Bellevue to gas up, and as we're gassing up we hear that loud rumble again. The three of us knew already to hide under the ambulance or go into the garage, because we didn't know what it was. We thought another building was going to come down or another jet was coming. But the fighter jets were flying
over Manhattan. We're like, are they ours?

D. McCORVEY 12
After that we went back. We had seen
Dr. Richmond, and Dr. Richmond said, "Come back here." We ended up here. We went back to Chelsea Piers, and we ended up in Chelsea Piers. We were trying to find Dr. Richmond. We didn't see him right away, but we saw a lot of ambulances.
The people I saw I know from Manhattan. Most of the people I know were Manhattan ambulances. Ididn'tseeanyfiretrucks.
Police cars, I just saw police cars blocking the entrance going down that way towards the Piers.
While we were at the pier, they were setting up the hospital. We were in there for a while. Thenwefinallycaughtupwith Dr.Richmond. Hesaidtohelpoutwiththe volunteers. Therewerealotofvolunteers coming up that wanted to help.
So we set up with the medical
volunteers and tried to set them up and tried to get their names down and see if they could come, they could stay. We didn't know what the situation was.
Around I think it was maybe 4 or 5:00,

D. McCORVEY 13
one of the cops said that the buildings were collapsing still and there were people still in need. They were pulling out anybody from the area. So we just told the docs to hang out, the volunteers to hang out and wait and see what happens.
We just helped set up blood donations. People wanted to come and donate blood. People wanted to come and help and do anything they could. So we just helped set that up a little
bit.
Q. Did you treat anybody?
A. Not there, not at the Chelsea Piers we didn'ttreatanybody. Lateratnight,maybe 11:00,we had like a bus load of cops that came in from ground zero. They were treated in the hospital. Maybe about 10, 15. Then after that we started getting a couple bus loads. We saw some firefighters come in. I don't know where theywerefrom. Itseemedlikeeverybodywas from all over the place.
I stayed there until about l : 0 0 and thenhitchedaridewithanambulance. Iwas going back to the academy, and then I went home.

D. McCORVEY 14
That's pretty much it. I really didn't seeanyfiremen. Isawfiretrucks. lremember seeing fire trucks coming down that way from West Street to Chelsea Piers.
Q. Any other recollections, things that
you may have observed that were odd or unusual or just things that you recall that you can tell us
about?
A. Unusual in what sense? The whole day was unusual. I don't know.
The things that stick out in my mind is
the fire in the towers when we were going down. In my car we were going down towards the station, and we could see the fire in the towers. The
cloud of smoke coming towards us.
Just standing at Chelsea Piers and not seeing the towers. A lot of police, a lot of SecretService,alotofambulances. Peoplefrom every voluntary hospital that you could think of was down there, from all over. Fire trucks from volunteer fire departments were down there, ones that I know, from all over, as well as from God knows where, towns I never heard of before. A lotofpeoplecomingdown. Ifyouneededwater,

D. McCORVEY 15
you asked for water, they gave you water. You ask for a bottle of water, and you got a jug of water.
MR. McALLISTER: I'm going to conclude theinterview. Itisnow1306hours,andwe are going to conclude the interview. Thank you.

File No. 9110008
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER STEPHEN GREGORY
Interview Date: October 3, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis

2 S. GREGORY
MR. McALLISTER: This is Kevin McAllister
from the Bureau of Administration. It's October 3rd,
2001, 1540 hours. I'm with Jim Drury from the Bureau
of Investigations and Trials and with Commissioner Stephen Gregory of the Bureau of Communications. We're in Commissioner Gregory's office and we are now commencing the interview.
COMMISSIONER GREGORY: On Tuesday, September Ilth, I was sitting in my office, it was just shortly
before 9:00 o'clock, having a cup of coffee, and I
heard on the scanner in my office on the PD SOD
frequency police units frantically screaming about a plane that had just crashed into the World Trade Center. At first I didn't realize what had happened and then it dawned on me. I immediately got up and left my office, went around the corner.
At that point in time I saw Chief Ganci,
Chief Nigro, a couple of the other chiefs coming out of their office talking about a plane that had struck the World Trade Center. At that time I had no idea what type of plane. I assumed, and it was only an assumption on my part, that it was a small plane that had strayed and winded into the Trade Center.
I proceeded back to my office. I gathered up

S. GREGORY
my driver and I took two EMS captains with me because I figured a situation like this would probably need
medical assistance at the scene. We proceeded to my vehicle.
We left headquarters, went over the Brooklyn Bridge, around by City Hall. We went down I believe it was Barclay Street, all the way down to West Street, made a left turn. As we were going over the bridge, we could visually see the upper floors of the World Trade Center with emanating heavy smoke and fire, at least 1 World Trade Center I should say.
When we got to West Street, we made a left
turn and we went back down I believe it's one block to Vesey Street. At that point in time the driver stopped the car and debris was falling from the building. I
told him to turn the car around and to park it on the other side of West Street, which we did. We went on the west side of West Street, up a slight incline,
which I think is Vesey Street, parked the car,
proceeded to put on my turnout coat, my helmet, and we walked back down to West Street.
At that point in time I proceeded with
Captain Frank D'Amato from Emergency Medical Dispatch. WestartedtowalkdownWestStreet. Probably25to50
3

S. GREGORY
feet into our walk we encountered several what appeared to be bodies or human remains in the street. We proceeded past that and headed down looking up at the building. There was a lot of debris falling down.
There was very heavy fire on the upper floors of the building. We worked our way down going south on West Street to ultimately arriving close to Liberty Street, where I encountered Assistant Chief Jerry Barbara.
I spoke with Chief Barbara and he informed me that he was the incident commander of 2 World Trade Center and he asked me if I would give him a hand runningthecommandboard. IindicatedthatIwould, at which point in time we stopped at Liberty Street. Jerrywassizingthebuildingup. Iproceededtoget on the radio.
I called the Manhattan Central Office on the
radio. I asked them to give me the rundown of units
that were assigned to 2 World Trade Center. The Manhattan dispatcher came back giving me the rundown, I
jotted all the companies down, and we proceeded to wait. After a few minutes we weren't receiving any companies. Chief Barbara asked again where are the companies? Itappearedthatthecompaniesthatwere responding were coming from north to south and that
4

S. GREGORY
they were being all grabbed at 1 World Trade Center, the furthermost north building.
I suggested to Chief Barbara at that time
that we possibly transmit a second alarm for a tunnel box and bring Brooklyn companies through the tunnel. He agreed with my recommendation and I requested a second alarm assignment to be brought in from Brooklyn through the Battery Tunnel. The companies in a short periodoftimestartedtoarrive. Iwentoutintothe
street. I flagged the companies down. We started to have them come in and report in to our command post.
At that point in time Chief Art Lakiotes
showed up. At that point Chief Barbara, Chief
Lakiotes, Chief Barbara's aide, Gary, I don't know
Gary's last name, and myself were at the command board. The command board was roughly on the corner of Liberty and West Street, but then at that point in
time, looking at the building, we observed people
jumping from the building, we observed debris falling
from both buildings. This is after, naturally, the
second plane had hit 2 World Trade Center, which happened while we were there. We observed people jumping.
So Chief Barbara suggested that we move
5

6 S. GREGORY
further south. He said let's head down towards Albany Street. We actually went down somewhere between Liberty and Albany Street to a point that we were actually right in front of the World Financial Center, which is just a little bit south of Liberty Street and
just south of that south bridge that goes across West Street. We set up the command post at that location.
So we were between Liberty and Albany, about halfway down. We set up the command post there. The companies started to come in.
At that point in time Chief Barbara said that hewasgoingtoheadinto2WorldTradeCenter. He told me that as soon as a battalion came in with an
aide that I felt comfortable with I should tell Gary to meet him in the lobby. Chief Barbara turned, started walking towards 2 World Trade Center, looked up at the building, sized it up, and that's the last that I saw
Chief Barbara.
My time estimation of how long he was gone beforethebuildingcamedown? Iwouldventuretosay it wasn't any more than maybe four minutes, five minutes, somewhere in there, but time was a little hard to figure out. But I would say it was somewhere around four to five minutes.

S. GREGORY
At that point in time we heard a rumble, we
heard a noise, and then the building came down. All we saw was dust and everything just started to get very chaotic. At that point in time all of us at the
command post, firefighters, chiefs, myself, we turned around, we started to run south, down West Street towards Albany. Looking back over my shoulder, I realized that I wasn't able to outrun whatever was
coming because it looked like a giant wave behind us,
so I went up against a chain-link fence, I got down on
one knee, I put my hands over my head to hold my helmet on so I wouldn't get hit in the head with anything, and
we just proceeded to get clobbered with all kinds of debris.
It got very black. It got very quiet. It
was very peacefully quiet; so peaceful that I thought I was dead.
Q. Were you on the west side of the street or the east side?
A. I was on the west side of West Street up against a fence in front of the World Financial Center. There's like a chain-link fence. It's about a six-foot fence that separates their property from -- actually, right over here. This is exactly where we
7

8 S. GREGORY
were, right here.
Q. He's denoting a space in front of 1 World
Financial Center, which on our map is denoted as the home of Dow Jones.
A. Originally we were right here. This was the number one location that we were at. We wound up to be at number two location over here, number one location being immediately south of the south bridge across the West Side Highway, number two being the location in front of 1 World Financial Center.
Theairgotverythick,verydirty. Itwas verydifficulttobreathe. Iwaschoking. Iproceeded
to at some point in time -- again, I lost track of
time -- to give an urgent or a Mayday message on the radio, which I subsequently listened to myself and I
have a cassette of that, indicating that something had happened. I asked a dispatcher if they were aware of
it because during the time that it got very black and
very quiet, my radio cut out completely. Apparently
the dust in the air cut the radio signal out. The
radio just hummed for maybe about 30 seconds and then it came back on again.
At that point in time I called Manhattan. I wasanswered. Iaskedthemiftheywereawareofan

9 S. GREGORY
explosionattheWorldTradeCenter. Itoldthem basically what I thought had happened and they came back and they answered me, and then subsequent to that I gave them a radio transmission indicating a major collapse of the World Trade Center. There were some conversations going back and forth.
At that point in time the atmosphere started toclearslightly. Itstartedtolift. Itwentfrom totalblacknesstogray. Icouldnowseevehicles,I
could see lights on vehicles, I could see some people moving around, I could see some people laying in the street, laying on the sidewalk. I got up. l was with anotherfirefighter. Ihavenoideawhoitwas. We
went around. We had picked some people up, people who were bleeding. We tried to administer to them whatever we could, but everybody was covered with this white powdery substance.
We found a firefighter that was injured and
we took him down further south on West Street to Albany and we went up Albany Street. We went west on Albany Streettowardsthewater. Atthatpointintimewe
took the firefighter into a garage. There's a parking garage, a little street on the south side of Albany justalittlebitwestofWestStreet. It'saparking

10 S. GREGORY
garage that has something to do with the building. We took the firefighter in there. He had a groin injury
and he was bleeding from the back of his head.
At that point in time Dr. Kelly appeared.
She looked at the individual. She said we had to transport him, get him out of there. We had him on a back board. We picked him up and started taking him out when all of a sudden -- later on we found out that 1TradeCentercollapsed. Sowewentbackinside,put him down, tried to secure him as best we could because thewholescenariostartedalloveragain. Itgot
black, the dirt was flying, there was debris all over
the place. We tried to stay out of the way because things were flying all over. How long we were in
there? I don't know. A couple of minutes. It started
to lift again.
We went over and administered again to the firefighter. Dr. Kelly was still there. We picked him
up. We brought him outside. There was an ambulance outside, which we took. We put him in the back of the ambulance and we drove him down Albany Street to the water, where he was subsequently put on some type of police launch or something.
At that point in time I was at Albany Street

11 S. GREGORY
and the Hudson River on I guess the promenade over there. There's a sidewalk promenade. I saw a
fireboat. A marine company was out in the water. They werestandingoffshore. Iflaggedthemarinecompany down. I told them to come in. They came in and they came up alongside the seawall.
Ispoketothepilot. Iaskedhimwherehis officerwas. Hesaidhedidn'thaveanofficer;he didn'tknowwherehewas. Itoldthepilottotiethe boatup. Hesaiddoyouwantmetotakepeopleoff? I said no, I want you to tie the boat up and I want you
to stretch two lines from the boat onto Albany Street, because they had a water problem down at West Street. So I felt that, since there was nobody else around to
do anything, stretching the lines would be the best thing.
At that point in time fire officers started
to appear. They came up. They wanted to know what they could do. They had rigs with them. We wound up ultimately stretching two lines from the boat supplying pumpers. The pumpers also stretched lines to the West Side Highway where they supplied the manifold. After that we were basically tending to injured firefighters andinjuredciviliansalongthewater. Subsequently,I

12 S. GREGORY
worked my way back down to West Street. After that, I don't know. Everything is a
blur. Somehow I wound up on the other side of the bridge, which we couldn't get by. We had to go through abuildingtogetaround. Idon'tevenknowwhat
building I went through, but somehow we got around and
I wound up back up on Vesey and West or the other side of the incident, and then subsequently I wound up back
up onto I guess Chambers, somewhere around Chambers where the command post was, and from there I worked my way east and we wound up at City Hall Park where I met up with one of my guys from the Field Com Unit.
When we left City Hall Park, we walked down I believe it was Barclay Street, Barclay and Church, I think. There's a church on the corner, right? Yes. St. Peter's Church.
As we were passing St. Peter's Church, the captain of Ladder 102 and the lieutenant from Ladder 102 were coming out of the church and they informed me that they had Father Judge's body inside the church. They had brought it from wherever they recovered it
into St. Peter's Church.
At that point in time Tom McGonigle from the Field Com and myself went into the church. We went up

13 S. GREGORY
to the altar. They had Father Judge on the altar. He was wrapped in sheets, some type of white sheeting, and they had him laying on the altar. We knelt down. We said a prayer.
We left the church at that point in time and
proceeded down Barclay Street and again somehow worked our way around back to West and Vesey -- how I did that
I have no idea -- where I met up with Father Delendick
and another chaplain who I know him but I can't recall
his name, and I informed them about Father Judge and where he was, and at that point in time they said they
were going up to the church to see what they could do
for him.
After that I just wandered around the site
for a while, I really don't recall what I did,
ultimately winding up in a McDonald's finding a telephone, and that's about it. I met Commissioner Fitzpatrick, Commissioner Drury, and Commissioner Fitzpatrick and I ultimately came back to headquarters to try and get things together back at headquarters since everybody else was at the site, and that's basically it in a nutshell.
Q. Do you recall at any time, particularly when
you were on West Street, any companies whose vehicles

14 S. GREGORY
may have been parked near where you were?
A. No. I know I was with an officer from Ladder
146, a Lieutenant Evangelista, who ultimately called me up a couple of days later just to find out how I was.
We both for whatever reason -- again, I don't know how valid this is with everything that was going on at that particular point in time, but for some reason I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he
questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because Ithought--atthattimeIdidn'tknowwhatitwas. I mean, it could have been as a result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.
Q. Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was?
A. No, the lower level of the building. You
know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. And I didn't broach the topic to him, butheaskedme. HesaidIdon'tknowifI'mcrazy,

15 S. GREGORY
but I just wanted to ask you because you were standing right next to me. He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? Hesaiddidyouseeanyflashes? Isaid, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them, too.
Idon'tknowifthatmeansanything. Imean,
I equate it to the building coming down and pushing things down, it could have been electrical explosions, itcouldhavebeenwhatever. Butit'sjuststrange
that two people sort of say the same thing and neither one of us talked to each other about it. I mean, I don'tknowthisguyfromaholeinthewall. Iwas
just standing next to him. I never met the man before inmylife. HeknewwhoIwasIguessbymynameonmy coat and he called me up, you know, how are you doing? How's everything? And, oh, by the way did you... It
was just a little strange.
Q. On the television pictures it appeared as
well, before the first collapse, that there was an explosion up on the upper floors.
A. I know about the explosion on the upper floors. This was like eye level. I didn't have to go likethis. BecauseIwaslookingthisway. I'mnot

16 S. GREGORY
going to say it was on the first floor or the second
floor, but somewhere in that area I saw to me what appearedtobeflashes. Idon'tknowhowfardownthis wasalready. Imean,wehadheardthenoisebut,you know, I don't know.
Q. You talk about your drivers. Who were they?
A. EMS personnel. I had Sam Harris, who works
up here, I had Captain Frank D'Amato and Captain Jason Pinkus. Fourofuswereinthecartogether. Captain Pinkus and Sam Harris went in one direction and Captain D'AmatoandIwentintheotherdirection. So,when
the collapse happened, we didn't know where the other people were. We were sort of separated in the middle. And then ultimately I lost Captain D'Amato even in my section. I didn't know what happened to him. When it started to come down, I ran south and he ran sort of
west into a building and that was the last we saw of
each other.
Q. What about Chief Artie Lakiotes; did you ever see him again?
A. I saw Artie Lakiotes a couple of times after
that. We were in the same area. I guess we ran in the same direction. I saw him after the collapse. We both went over and hugged each other and realized that we

17 S. GREGORY
were both still there, and I saw Artie a couple of times after that.
Q. Where did you last see Dr. Kelly?
A. Dr. Kelly I saw last when we put that firefighter in the ambulance and after that I didn't see Dr. Kelly. I didn't know where she went.
Q. And you mentioned a Tom McGonigle?
A. Tom McGonigle was assigned to the Field Com Unit. I met him at City Hall. I think Tom was either coming in to support the Field Com Unit, he may have been coming in from home, but I met him on I guess that's Broadway that runs down from City Hall. I met him on Broadway and then Tom was with me for a while and then I think he went to the mobile command vehicle to work over there and I lost track of him after a
while.
Q. Where did you park the car initially when you
arrived at the scene?
A. Sam parked the car initially right here.
This was spot number one. And the stuff was falling down and I said get the car out of here. We turned the car around and we parked the car over here.
Q. Just for the record, you parked it on Vesey Street near West?

18 S. GREGORY
A. Vesey --
Q. West of west?
A. Initially we parked it on the southeast
corner of Vesey and West Street, ultimately moving it immediately to Vesey Street about two, three hundred feet west of West Street. My car was wiped out over there, too. All the windows were blown out and shrapnelanddamageandeverything. Butthat'swhere Sam parked the car, over here, and once we parked the car there, we came down here. I walked down West Street, I guess by the first tower, and then right
about here we started to encounter people laying in the street, and then we continued on to here and I met Chief Barbara over here. We set up the initial command post over here, which is near Liberty.
Q. Which is the south bridge?
A. Right. And then we ultimately moved it in front of this World Financial Center building, No. 1, which is Dow Jones.
MR. McALLISTER: 1 World Financial Center. Q. Now, as you proceeded down West Street, did
you see a Fire Department command post set up on West Street?
A. No. I didn't see any command post. In fact,

19 S. GREGORY
I didn't see anybody. That's the part that really it
was like a ghost street. There was nobody there. I didn't see people. You know, I saw nobody coming out of the building. I guess, after a while, thinking
about it, I assumed all the people went out through the promenade and came out this way, but I didn't see anybody here. I didn't see any people here. I saw parts of the plane laying here. I saw, again, bodies laying here, pieces of bodies, and then coming down here I met Chief Barbara, and then there were people down here, a lot of civilians down here.
MR. McALLISTER: Again, referring to West Street in the proximity of World Trade I ?
COMMISSIONER GREGORY: Yes, exactly. Q. Now, you mentioned Chief Barbara's driver or
aide, Gary?
A. Q. A.
Gary. I don't know Gary's last name. Did you see him after the collapse?
No, I didn't see Gary after the collapse. I
spoke to Gary the other day. Gary came here to see me and Gary said that he was blown down, ultimately got
up, and then somehow worked his way down, after helping some people, worked his way down, and then he wound up in a hospital somewhere, whether it be in Staten Island

20 S. GREGORY
or Jersey or wherever, but he wound up in a hospital, I know that.
Q. The airplane parts that you referred to, they were on West Street or on Vesey Street?
A. Q. A.
I saw airplane parts on West Street.
How did you know they were airplane parts?
It looked like pieces of a plane, skin of a plane. Imean,theyweren'treallydiscernible. I couldn't say this was this part of a plane or that was that part. Just knowing a plane had hit the building and I looked and I saw it looked like the skin off a wing or a fuselage or wherever it came from.
Q. Clearly not building material?
A. No. The building material was sort of gray and you could see it, you know, how it differed from the plane. I was listening to the tape this morning of the people calling up and they were describing the plane that hit the building. Actually, so many people saw it. They actually described the plane as it came in. They said it was a military-type plane and it was greenanditwasthis. Imean,Ineversawthecolor of the plane.
Q. Where were you when the second plane hit? A. We were down at the command post between

21 S. GREGORY
Liberty and Albany on the west side of West Street. And after the second plane hit, somebody said they heard rumors that a third plane was coming in. Where they got that from, I don't know. But somebody said the cops said there's a third plane coming in. We didn't know anything about that.
Q. Did you see or hear the second plane before it hit the World Trade Center?
A. I never actually saw the plane, but l heard
it. You could hear it coming in and then we heard the explosion and you could hear the roar of the plane coming in. At first I didn't realize it was a plane.
I thought it was like the roar of fire, like something had just incinerated, like a gas tank or an oil tank.
It sounded like a tremendous roar and then you heard boom and then there was a big fire, a lot of fire, a
big fireball. I never actually saw a plane hit the building. Ineversawthat. Isawitontelevision,
but I never saw it while I was standing there.
Q. I guess just one follow-up. You said West Streetwasempty. Emptyasfaraspeoplebeingonthe street or was there fire apparatus parked there?
A. There was fire apparatus parked there. But I guess I had expected to see like droves of people

22 S. GREGORY
evacuating the building and we would have to get the people out of there, but there were no people. When I say no people, I mean relatively no people. There were
a few stragglers here and there, but other than that,
there was no volume of people. Again, later on, in looking and thinking about it, I would have assumed everybody probably went out through the promenade onto theChurchStreetsideofthebuilding. ButIwas surprised that there weren't more people in the street
over there.
IneverdidseeCommissionerFeehan. Inever
saw Chief Ganci. I never saw Chief Burns. The only
person I really came in contact with was Jerry
Barbara. And I never saw a command post because maybe at that time they may have been inside 1 World Trade
Center when we passed by and then maybe when we passed by they came outside. But l never saw them. They were probably in the building. So I can't actually say that Ieversawanybody. Imean,Isawchauffeurshooking pumpers up and stuff like that, but I never really saw
any of those individuals.
That's unusual because usually -- and, again,
I still to this day don't know why I went down to No. 2. 1 mean, normally, in the normal course of

23 S. GREGORY
operation, I would go to the command post, wherever CommissionerFeehanwaswithGanci. Forwhatever reason, that day, I'm still racking my brain why I did
it, I just walked right past the building and went
down, further down, all the way to the other side. Why did l do it? I don't know. No idea.
MR. McALLISTER: Any follow-ups?
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: No. But I would just ask the Commissioner to put his name on the map and we'll add it as an exhibit to our file. So let
the record reflect he's doing that now. -Today's date
is October 3rd, 2001.
MR. McALLISTER: And just before we conclude, we'll offer the Commissioner an opportunity to give us any further recollections or observations before we conclude the interview, if he has any.
COMMISSIONER GREGORY:

24 S. GREGORY

25 S. GREGORY
MR. McALLISTER: Thank you, Commissioner.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: Thanks, Commissioner.
MR. McALLISTER: It is now 1610 hours, October 3rd, 2001, and we're going to conclude the interview. Thank you.

File No. 9110009
WORLD TRADE CENTER T ASK FORCE INTER VIEW LIEUTENANT MURRAY MURAD
Interview Date: October 4, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins

M. MURAD
MR. CAMPBELL: Today is October 4th at 10:30 in the morning. We're in conference room 4E21 at headquarters. My name is Patrick Campbell, Fire Marshal, here to conduct an interview with Murray Murad about the occurrence of September llth.
Also present in the room is - -
MR. STARACE: Michael Starace, Fire Marshal.
LIEUTENANT MURAD: Murray Murad, Lieutenant Investigator with Bureau of Investigations and Trials.
Q. Okay, Murray, we're just coming here
and trying to do a fact-finding mission of what you saw on September llth in the morning of the plane crash and the incident that happened at the World Trade Center. Just tell us what you saw and did that day.
A. Well, I was conducting business Greenwich and Liberty at Engine 10, Truck that day. I happened to walk through the quarters around 8:35 and I asked to speak officer in charge of the truck - - I think was Captain Mallery; I think it's
down on 10, on
to the that

M . MURAD
M-A-L-L-E-R-Y -- I needed to speak to one of the firemen. It so happens who I was looking for, the firefighter was there.
So we went upstairs and we started to prepare the paperwork. I was conducting a confidential investigation at the fire house. It was about 8:41 t h a t we heard a plane hovering over the fire house. It sounded like the plane was right on top of us. At that time the captain was upstairs. He was taking a shower in the office and I was conducting the work with the firefighter.
The captain came out and said: "What's going on? This i s a no-fly zone. There should be no planes over here unless this is a military plane, a plane in trouble." Other than that, there was really no clue.
So about two or three minutes after hearing it, you heard something like revving. We took a look, and, boom, the north tower is hit.
So what happened was everyone l e f t the house except for the captain, because he already had his relief. What I'm assuming is that he's going to man the house. His relief was there.

M . MURAD 4
They a l l took off. The engine and the truck took off I guess they both were responding to a pre-arranged staging location when the World Trade Center i s involved i n some kind of major incident. And they all took off.
So what happened was people were running out of the building. We got a couple of injuries. We were treating them.
Q. Out of the building, out of the Trade Center?
A. Out of the Trade Center, yeah. I don't know which Trade Center building they came out
of, but it was either the north or the south building.
It was very minimal, like five, six patients. They came with very, very minor injuries. There was a police officer in the fire house. I asked him: Listen, can you get an ambulance here, we have a couple minor injuries. We need an ambulance at the staging location
here.
The ambulance comes in. The first EMT that walks in, he sprained his ankle. So he was not much of a help, but he tried to get these

M. MURAD
people as comfortable as possible.
Let me go back. Let me go back one
second before this. After the first plane hit, we went downstairs after everyone took off. I was there downstairs for maybe seven, eight minutes.
I went back upstairs because I wanted to get something out of my bag. Maybe about
10 to 12-minutes after that first plane, I heard another plane. Then I said to myself, we're being attacked.
I ran downstairs. No sooner did I run downstairs and look up, that I saw the second plane strike the south tower. It was such a vicious hit and such a precision hit, it was unbelievable.
Still we didn't have that many more people coming into the fire house, just regular civilians hanging around. They were looking at everything else like that. So pretty much everything was pretty much stabilized in the fire house. The captain was still the only one there.
At that point there were two fire marshals that came to the house. They wanted to

M. MURAD 6
borrow some equipment. I can't identify who they were. I forget what they looked like. They got some gear from the house and then they took off. So I only saw them for a second. I only determined they were fire marshals because they had their jackets on.
So at this point what I did was I went around the corner to Liberty and Greenwich to tell the people listen, just keep walking, just keep walking as far as you can, just stay away from the buildings.
I got to the American Stock Exchange building. A guy came out and asked me what do you think we should do? I said listen, if it was me, I tell you in one word, R-U-N, run, just leave. Oh, we have a protocol, for this and that. Listen, you've to get your people to safety. I don't think being in the building is that safe. But this is the American Stock Exchange. I said listen, you do what you have to do. We have a couple of retired cops on the job here. So one of them called me over. I told him the same story. I said listen, you guys need to get out of here, just for safety reasons. Again,

M. MURAD
he told me that they have their protocol that they do.
So I continued on my little excursion here trying to get people out of the stores, out of the buildings. I went to all of the shops right behind the fire house. I said listen, just leave your building, just leave.
Q. This is on Greenwich Street?
A. Yeah, right on Greenwich and Liberty, right behind the fire house, right on - - is it Cider or Cedar?
Q. Cedar?
A. Cedar. They have all the little coffee shops there, bagel stores, gourmet shops there with all the foods. I told them just leave,
just - - don't even close your business, just walk out and leave. They're telling me they're okay, they're okay. Now it's getting a little frustrating because I said listen, you should really leave. Don't lock your door, but let your employees go. That didn't seem to work.
So I went back into the fire house to see what I could do. The EMS unit was trying to treat a couple of people. We had a guy with a

M . MURAD
broken leg, possibly, and maybe one patient with second degree burns but nothing life-threatening.
All the injuries in the fire house were minor. There were really no life-threatening injuries. So in a matter of 15, 20 minutes, the
captain yelled out and you heard this roar. All he said was run to the back, it's coming down. And we all started running to the back of the fire house.
I know the design of Engine 10, Truck 10. It's on the corner, pretty wide. Then as you go into the house it narrows into the hallway. It has a phone. It has a TV room. Then it has a bathroom and a kitchen, which I totally forgot about, the kitchen during the collapse.
Everyone's running down to the basement or upstairs. One of the firefighters, who must have come in when they were calling all these guys in, I don't know who they were, said go upstairs, go upstairs. A lot of people didn't want to go upstairs because they were afraid. The building is coming down upstairs.
So as we were running, we were picking

M . MURAD 9
up the injured people. They would fall, we would stop, two people pick them up.
Q. Still in the house?
A. Still in the house. Then it came down. From the implosion, we a l l got thrown and a l l that stuff came in the house, all that debris, all that concrete and all that fiberglass. Name it, it was in there. It was incredible. Then it started getting dark, darker. You couldn't even see in front of you.
Q. Inside?
A. Inside the fire house. You couldn't even see. I couldn't even see in front of my face. Then it became very, very black. We were trying to get out the door. The back entrance was blocked with a l l the rubble. Somehow they were able to get the door open. Again I think most of us forgot about the kitchen. We were a l l trying to go out through the back. So everyone I think got out.
So what happened was I got out and I went to see what was going on. It was a
nightmare. Cars were tossed. I mean, all that stuff was in the air, on the street.

M . MURAD 1 0
So I walked up to Trinity Place. It just so happens I needed a mask, you know. I happened to see Matty James who was in a Jeep. I said Matty, you got a mask? He said: "I have a couple of Scott packs." I didn't want to take one because they had a couple of fire trucks that were hanging out right in front of him. I don't know what fire trucks they were, but they looked kind of beaten up from the explosion.
Q. This was on where? A. On Trinity Place. Q. On Trinity?
A. And Cedar.
Q. Cedar.
A. Right, right up there.
Q. They were parked there, and they were
smashed?
A. I don't know if they were really
smashed, but there was a lot of debris on them.
I only saw one or two. I can't really identify them because there was so much debris in the air and on the ground. The pictures that you see, that's what was going on.
So he said to me: "Hop in my car, I'll

M. MURAD
give you a ride, because there's a cop, he's giving out masks on the corner." Meanwhile I can't see, my eyes are so red and irritated and I'm coughing up all the soot and everything. So I got a mask from the cop.
Then there was like a little cappuccino store right there. I knocked on the door and was let in. Listen, can I use your facilities here? He said oh, yeah, come on in, wash up. I just wanted to wash my face and get all that stuff out of my eyes. He said hey, have some water. He gave me a bottle of water. I was there about 15 minutes. Then I started walking out.
I walked about two, three minutes, and all of a sudden I heard a plane. Now, I'm like the only one walking on this block. I said oh, my God, we're being attacked again. Someone said it could have been a B15, a U.S. plane up in the air. Actually, what I think it was, was simultaneously the plane and the north tower coming down. So that's what the sounds were. I heard that rumble.
So I started going back to the area where Liberty Street was. I went up to Liberty

M. MURAD 12
Street. Everything's destroyed, everything, all the buildings around it. The only thing standing was the fire house.
I re-entered the fire house. I spotted a chief. I think it was Philip Burns only because someone called his name. A couple of firemen were in there. There was Firefighter Peter D'Ancona. He was there. He was assigned there. I saw him. He was looking for gear. There was no gear to be found for these guys, no turn-out coats, no nothing. Everything was gone.
Guys were coming in. A couple of companies were coming in just trying to assist. It was still dark out.
What happened was everybody got out of the house safely. I asked the captain where is everybody? He said everyone's out, everyone's fine, everyone's good. There was nothing else to do. Then I spotted the two EMTs that were assigned to the location. I said listen, I have a car - -
Q. Do you remember their names?
A. No, I don't. The ambulance was destroyed in the collapse. I don't know if it

M. MURAD 1 3
was totaled, but there was a lot of damage to the vehicle.
Q. Where was that vehicle?
A. It was parked right inside the 10 and 10 house
Q. On the side?
A. Right inside.
Q. Oh, inside?
A. Inside, right. They backed it up. I
don't know if they were going to do triage or going to transport.
How did the ambulance get damaged?
All the debris from the collapse of --
Q.
A.
Q.
A. It was inside. From the implosion,
So it was outside?
everything just came inside.
Q. The doors were open?
A. The doors were open.
Q. Oh, the doors were open?
A. Yeah. They should have been closed,
but I don't think -- no one expected within an hour the collapse. It was an awful thing.
Q. Where did you park?
A. I parked down on Greenwich between -- I

M. MURAD 14
think it's Carlisle and Rector. That's where I was parked.
Q. So you were down a little further?
A. Yeah. Because what happened was when I got to the house it was almost changing shifts and I didn't want to take a parking spot up, because they double park there and everywhere right around the corner. It was still early. I said you know what, let me just park up further. I found a spot, I pulled the car in, and then I just walked up to the fire house.
Q. You never made it to the towers? You never went near the towers?
A. No, that was just from my location of being right at 10 and 10. That was the closest I was.
Q. Philip Burns was in there during that whole time?
A. I only saw him when I came back after the second tower collapsed. I'm only saying it was Philip Burns because someone said that was Chief Burns.
Q. That was after the second? A. After the second collapse.

M . MURAD 1 5
Q. When the first one was hit, you were outside?
A. No, I was almost in front of the house at the front doors. The doors were open.
Q. Which i s actually right across the street?
A. Right across the street. It was on Liberty and Greenwich.
Q. You looked up and you saw the --
A. I didn't look up. What happened was the captain just -- we heard a roar, and he just yelled out it's coming down, just run to the back of the fire house.
Q. Oh, no, when it hit -- did you see it -- were you outside when it hit?
A. No.
Q. You were inside?
A. Yeah. We just heard a l l the rumble and
all -- the collapse.
Q. I'm saying you were in the house when
the first plane hit? A. Yes.
Q. Did you go out at all right after it? A. When the first plane hit? I did. I

M . MURAD
went outside.
Q. What did you see then?
A. I just saw the fire - - the smoke coming
out from the top from the north tower. Q. Was there any debris?
A. Not at that time.
Q. No debris at all?
A. No. Stuff was coming down, but nothing real major. After the second plane hit even more stuff came down.
Q. I'm sorry, when the second plane hit.
A. When the second plane hit, it was just a lot of fire, a lot of black smoke.
Q. Coming out?
A. Right. What happened was that we looked up and then within a couple of minutes one guy jumped - - an individual came out. It wasn't like a jump, because they came out backwards. Evidently from the explosion up on those floors they got blown out. Someone else came down and they were coming out. I only saw two people come out.
Now we had more people congregating in the fire house. We would just evaluate them, if

M. MURAD 17
they were injured. No, we're not injured. We need a phone.
Of course the cell phones were not working. The only cell phone that worked I think was Nextel. It's a two-way portable radio, practically, and you can have contact. You don't even have to worry about dialing. That's the only phones that were working.
Everyone's cell phones were just not working. My cell phone was dead. The beepers were dead. Everything in the fire house was dead. There was no communication whatsoever. So we just relied on whatever information we were able to get, which was actually really nothing.
Q. Were there a lot of plane parts or anything when the second one hit?
A. Not that I saw, no.
Q. You said there were firemen around you. Did you hear any transmissions going on?
A. No. It was all verbal among the firemen just discussing. The radio communication was fairly - - I didn't hear anything.
MR. CAMPBELL: Do you have anything else, Mike?

M. MURAD 18
Q. Anybody else you actually recognized?
A. I recognized the captain. I recognized one of the firefighters. I recognized a lieutenant that was from BHS. I don't know his last name. His first name is John. He was good friends with Geoff Guja. Actually they went down together. Geoff unfortunately didn't make it.
Q. You don't remember the fireman's name?
A. No, that was with him? I don't remember.
Q. Captain Mallery, he stayed in the fire house the whole time?
A. I believe so.
Q. Anything else? Is there anything else you want to add? You can say anything about how you felt or whatever.
A. It was something that if you were there, to describe it, it was horrible. It was a horrific act against us. It was something that you would never, ever think would ever, ever happen to this country.
When those towers came down, it was like a sign of something. When all these people - - I mean, war is war. They talk about

M . MURAD 19
Pearl Harbor. Bottom line is Pearl Harbor was a military base, installation. It was peace time.
But here what happened was we got two planes, our own planes, going into two towers and killing almost 5,000 people. It was just an awful day. It was day I'll never forget, just the sounds of everything and the planes hitting. The awful sound of hearing that plane over the fire house. It was like it was sitting right on top of the fire house. That's how close it was. And then revving up the engine and then hitting the north tower.
Q. You had said earlier people in the fire house were alarmed when they heard the plane.
They felt A.
Q.
something was wrong?
Oh, yeah.
Before it even - -
I was upstairs. There was only the
A.
captain and the firefighter. It was George Bachmann who was up there with me. George Bachmann was in Vietnam - - served in Vietnam. So he knows certain sounds. Like we said, this is a no-fly zone here. What's a plane doing here?
So as soon as that plane hit, they all

M. MURAD 20
took off. The only one left was the captain at the time. Anybody else coming back, coming into the house was either called in or off-duty guys coming in, grabbing equipment. I saw the two fire marshals. They were grabbing equipment. They asked the captain: "We need some gear."
But again, no one ever expected it to collapse like that. Just thankfully a pancake rather than toppling over. That would have been a nightmare. But in an hour the intensity of that heat must have been incredible.
Q. Did any of the guys from 10 and 10 come back after - -
A. They were out. I understand that a lot of them didn't come back.
Q. So none of them came back after, while you were around?
A. No, no. They, I think, just went to the location where they were supposed to go and whatever assignment they were given. The problem was when the south tower went down, I guess there was no communication and people just went into the north tower. That's what they were saying.
When the south tower came down, that

M . MURAD
was where the communication was. While
the north tower is still up, burning, guys were just told go into the building. There was no radio communication. That's what --
Q. You were by the south tower?
A. Right.
Q. After that got hit, were there any
firefighters going into Two World Trade from Liberty Street or anything?
A. No, they just -- everyone just got in and they went to --
Q. No, I'm saying when the second one hit when they were responding when they made the other alarm for the second tower.
A. Right.
Q. Units were assigned to the second tower or the south tower. Did you see any of them go in?
A. No, no. Actually I didn't see any units from where I was. They must have a l l gone to Vesey or they were parked on Church right up on the street. I saw some fire apparatus up on, I think it was, Church or Trinity or right up there on Liberty Street.

M. MURAD
Q. Did you see any numbers or anything? A. No.
MR. CAMPBELL: All right. This concludes the interview. It's 10:52. Thank you very much.

File No. 9110010
WORLD TRADE CENTER T ASK FORCE INTER VIEW P ARAMEDIC TRACEY MULQUEEN
Interview Date: October 4, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins

T. MULQUEEN
MR. McALLISTER: This is Kevin McAllister from the Bureau of Administration. It'sOctober4th,2001. We're at Fire Department headquarters in
8E13, and we're about to begin an interview with Tracey Mulqueen, who's a paramedic assigned to the office of medical affairs.
I'm joined by - -
MR. CASTORINA: Ron Castorina, Bureau of Investigations and Trials.
MR. TAMBASCO: Mike Tambasco, Bureau of Investigations and Trials.
MR. McALLISTER: Tracey Mulqueen as well.
Q. We're just going to draw your attention to September the 11th and ask you for your recollections about the events of that day.
A. I guess to start with, the first time I started hearing - - I was actually in the pantry making breakfast. I started to hear people screaming. The first thought was that there was a bird in reception, like a bird had flown in or something. I don't know where that came from.
I went out to see what was going on,

T. MULQUEEN
and I went to the eighth floor reception and I could see the flames and the smoke coming out of the first tower in the Trade Center. It was surreal. It's like you're seeing it but you're not really processing it.
I was watching for a few minutes, and the second plane came in. Basically the next thing I remember after that was we had all of our office's medical equipment on a chair and we were running out the building.
They had somehow worked out for us to get an ambulance at one of the battalions in Brooklyn. So we ran to somebody's personal car, because we didn't even try to get a pool car. We figured all the pool cars were probably gone at that point, which I wouldn't be surprised if they were.
So we're driving through Brooklyn, and three of us - - it was myself, James Murphy, who's another paramedic, and Dulce McCorvey, who is an EMT in the office. So we go into her personal car with all the equipment, and we're driving and we're hoping we don't get lost.
Again, we're in a personal vehicle.

T. MULQUEEN
I'm basically stopping at the red lights. I'm jumping out of the car, stopping traffic so we can drive through, because we just needed to get there. I probably shouldn't be telling this to the BITS people, but anyway.
Q. We've heard this story before. A. I know.
Just trying to stop. People looked at us like what's going on. I guess people didn't know yet. We were listening to the radio, the regular AM radio - - I forget what station it was - - and starting to hear the reports about what's going on.
So we get an ambulance, we throw our stuff in it, and we start heading over to Manhattan. We were driving and we come over - - I think we came over the Manhattan Bridge and went around City Hall. We were driving down Broadway, and there was no AM/FM radio in the ambulance, so we had no idea what was going on at this point.
Q. What were you able to observe as you came over the bridge and after you entered Manhattan?
A. Just there was a lot of cops. There

T. MULQUEEN
was a lot of activity. I really wasn't seeing people, like the hordes of people like you see on the news. I think we were more concerned about going the right way and not getting lost. I was in the passenger seat of the ambulance, so I was kind of copiloting at that point.
We started to come down Broadway, and we could start to see people coming up at us, just all types of pedestrians, walking only in onedirection. LikeIsaid,wedidn'thavea radio in our ambulance, and nothing had come over the regular FD radio. So we didn't even know the first tower had collapsed at that point, and we were driving straight in. We had no clue.
One of the captains from operations, Janice Olszewski, if she hadn't stopped us, we probably would have been right underneath the tower when it came down. We had no idea what was going on.
We were coming down Broadway, and I'm not sure exactly where we ended up but I believe we were probably at Broadway and Vesey. We were probably right about here. She had flagged us down. We got out of the ambulance. We started

T . MULQUEEN
talking to her. You could see that she had that look in her eye. She told us that the tower had come down.
Literally within like maybe a minute or two of being on the scene, you could start to hear the rumble again. Everybody just said, "Get out of here!" Everybody just took off running.
Q. That was the rumble from the second tower?
A. It was, definitely, because you could start to see the dust cloud was starting to come at us and everything. We were running up Broadway, and I don't know how he did this, because all I thought was just get the hell out of here. I had Captain Olszewski in my sight,
and I had Dulce McCorvey in my sight, and we were together. I had no idea where Jimmy Murphy went.
The next thing you know, the ambulance comes up Broadway. "Get in!" Cool. So we all jumped in, and we just all sat in the back. You could see the dust clouds coming at us and going down the side streets.
Q. You were moving, you were driving?
A. Oh, yeah. So we actually beat out that

T. MULQUEEN
cloud, because there's no way you could have driven through that. We were driving, and we stopped at one point and we looked and saw that we were outside the federal building. We ain't stopping here. So we went a few more blocks up.
I remember Janice Olszewski just sitting there screaming, "Keep going. We're not far enough. We're not far enough. Just keep going." We just were all sitting in the back of theambulance,whatthehelljusthappened. I don't think it really even sunk in.
We knew something had happened. I don't think we realized like the whole thing had come down, because we didn't even know - - she had said that something had collapsed, there was some
kind of out, we started
Q.
explosion, I don't know. We just got stopped, and all of a sudden people just coming out, all covered in the ash.
Where did you stop?
I know we were outside of 385 Broadway
A.
at one point, because there was a lingerie shop there and the guy was so nice. He let us come in, let us use the bathroom, let us use the phones. Iknowthedelinexthadaskedpeople

T . MULQUEEN
for quarters to use the phones, which I could not believe. This guy was like, "Whatever you need. What can I do?" He was just amazing. I'm going
t o make a point t o go back there and thank him, because he was absolutely wonderful.
I think we all sat down on the back of the bumper. We were trying to get dust masks,
and we gave out a l l of our masks within a couple of minutes, because everybody was coming up. You could smell it. I t ' s not a regular smoke smell.
I t ' s acrid concrete, whatever. We gave out dust masks .
Then within I guess a couple minutes, people started coming out, making their way out of that cloud. There were some injuries. A lot of just completely petrified, shell-shocked -- I guess when you see pictures of people from other parts of the world after bombings and stuff, that shell-shocked look.
When you see people in New York in business suits coming out covered in ash, looking like that, the whole thing -- surreal is definitely the only word that describes a lot of what went on that day, and afterwards too.

T . MULQUEEN
I know after a few minutes some guy came up, and he must have just run to the first deli he could find and bought all the water he could fit in his backpack and just came by and just started giving out water to people, which was -- I guess that was the beginning of people coming together and trying to do the right thing. People came by and bought sandwiches in a store and just tried to give us stuff. Somebody finally came by and was giving out like bottles of water, like the five gallon ones.
Actually, this is interesting, just to go back. When we were driving up Broadway before we actually got there, there was a sheriff's car, and my husband is a deputy sheriff in the New York City sheriff's office. As we were driving by, I yelled at them, "Tell Paul Mulqueen that his wife i s here."
Because afterwards, maybe about half an hour, all I could think of is I know my husband works in Manhattan, I know he was there. I'm trying t o focus on what I need t o do, and people coming up cut and having trouble breathing. We had a few different oxygen bags and regulators

T . MULQUEEN
and stuff. You go into auto pilot and you try to do what you have to do, and all I could think about was where's Paul, where's Paul. Nobody could get through on the cell phones.
I guess probably about 12-ish I saw another sheriff, and I said, "Could you please just try and raise him on the radio." He called him. Finally a l l I heard back, "What?" I thought, okay, he's okay, which I thought was very funny. The guy was like, "Lord, there was a family member looking for you." You could hear like the relief in his voice, and he was like, "Okay." But it was like "What?"
I found out later he was helping to evacuate the fire. There was a picture. He was
i n l i k e Time magazine and Newsweek magazine evacuating some of the victims out. I understand where that "what" came from at that point, but it was the happiest word I heard.
I don't know how long we were there,
but we were there for a while trying to just
catch people as they were coming out, people were being carried out, limping up. Everybody was pretty banged up, although not as banged up as I

T . MULQUEEN
expected. I think a lot of us really expected worse injuries. It seemed like people were mostly either walking wounded or they didn't get out. It's unfortunate.
Q. What street were you getting these injuries at?
A. We were still in front of 385 Broadway. Q. On Broadway?
A. Yeah, which I think i s just south of
Canal Street.
I t ' s funny, because the whole time too
you don't realize how often you use the twin towers as your reference point, because for the next couple days I would look and I had no idea where I was. I would go to look up to see where the towers were. I guess that's something I'll have to get used to, but it was very strange.
I know once --
Q. Were there other units there at that
time?
A. There was one other ambulance there. I
think it was from the academy, because I know like Marlena Coffey was there and Jenna, she's from the academy. She was with a couple of other

T . MULQUEEN
people and some other EMTs that were closer that didn't get out of the cloud had come up. I know one guy's name was Kevin. He was covered in ash.
I think after once we kind of got control of the scene there, everybody was just to the phone to try and call people, to just let them know that we're okay. I know when I got in touch with my aunt, she was hysterical, which started me off, the last thing you want.
We were told to 85 with one of the deputy medical directors, so we met up with him at wherever that first treatment sector was on the West Side Highway there. There was a l l the ambulances, and a l l other people started coming in. I saw ambulances from New Jersey. My friend lives on North Shore. This funky big ambulance thing. I never saw a truck like it.
We met up with Dr. Richmond, which apparently he and Commissioner Clair and Dario Gonzalez, the two physicians and the
commissioner, were flown in from the state police from Albany, which was good.
At that point Captain Olszewski was who

T. MULQUEEN 13

I remember what struck me most is when we were on the east side and stuck in all that traffic, people were just going about their day. People were sitting at cafes eating. I know life goes on and stuff, but to see people -- it was almost like how could you just be going about your business? Don't you know what just
happened?
I saw her I don't know when, a couple days later. I had slept here a couple nights,
and I ran into her one night. It was good to see

T . MULQUEEN
people. I never hugged so many people that I worked with in the space of a couple of days, ever.
From the hospital we went to Bellevue to restock, because our bus was trashed. They had everything set up outside for restock. We had no oxygen, we had no masks, we had no water left for doing people's eyes and stuff. We were flushing them out. We had no gas. It was like everything you could run out of, we ran out of.
We were standing at Bellevue. All of a sudden we hear this rumble of like a plane really low, and I started to freak out. Jimmy Murphy said, "It's okay. It's an F-15." I've never heard an F-15 before. I don't go to air shows or anything.
But that plane and the rumble, especially because you hadn't heard a plane since; maybe a helicopter or two. But that sound, that was -- and just to see all these fighter jets over New York City was very, very strange.
So then we restocked, and we were sent to Chelsea Piers. We pretty much spent the rest

T . MULQUEEN
of our night there. Actually how did I get to Chelsea Piers? Honestly I don't know where we went after Bellevue. All I know is at some point I got hooked up with Dr. Richmond and we ended up a t Chelsea Piers. I don't know how I got there. Okay. That's pretty interesting.
Q. because of time
A. thing I Chelsea
I t ' s common that people have gaps,
a lot of people don't recall big chunks from that day.
I have no idea what I did. The next know, it was nighttime and we were at Piers and we were helping -- we got the
morgue set up, which actually they never used, on the ice rink, which I thought it was actually a good idea.
Yeah, just getting everything set up, all the hospitals, getting all the people -- everyone was just rushing in. Everybody knows about how many people we had volunteering their time, and just stuff, equipment.
I remember at one point an unmarked truck pulls outside Chelsea Piers, and they start unloading it. You see just big brown boxes. I ' m like, "Guys, I know I'm Miss Panic here, but did

T. MULQUEEN 17
anybody check those boxes? Where is this stuff from? It could be terrorist stuff." The FEMA guy standing next to me says, "Oh, maybe we should check the truck out." I was like oh, my God, you know. Who knew at that point? He was like, "Wow, that's a good idea."
At some point that night, we went to go check out some of the -- I went with Dr. Richmond t o ground zero from Chelsea, and I got t o see a little bit of it. Words can't describe. You can see all the pictures and all the footage. I don't know if you guys were there or not, but it just looks like the gates of hell opened up.
I've heard that from other people too. You can't describe that.
Then we went back up, and we were finishing coordinating. I actually got home the f i r s t night, because my husband came and picked
me up. That was good. That was very good. I was very, very thankful, very thankful. We're both the same type of people, we're there.
I know my parents were i n Walt Disney World, and they shut the whole park and wouldn't tell people why they started shutting people out.

T . MULQUEEN
A guy had a radio and told my parents, and my mom just flipped, because she knows where I work.
She knows that when big things happen, we're out the door first.
The only reason why I wasn't out the door with Dr. Cherson and Manny Delgado was because I was making my frigging bacon in the pantry. Who knows what would have happened had I been there.
You hear all these stories. There were so many people that were just lucky because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time or the right place at the right time. That's two
things: I had my bacon saved me, hopefully, and then Janice Olszewski stopping us in the middle of Broadway before we drove right into the thing. I ' m very lucky and very happy.
I came back the next morning, and I had met up with Dr. Cherson at that point. I spent the next couple of days with him. That's a very big blur. All I know is that by the end of the day I could barely walk, my feet hurt so much.
My big toes are still numb now, because we were just on our feet for so many hours. The next

T. MULQUEEN 19
couple days I ended up just sleeping up here in one of the doc's offices.
Oh, wait, no, I forgot this one. The next day we were - - after we were helping the setup - - they were setting up the northwest triage and treatment sector in the American Express building all of a sudden you started to hear that rumble again. Everybody just took off.
Q. This is on the 12th?
A. Yes. Apparently in the back some of the facade had been falling down, but you didn't know that. All you know is you heard that rumble again. We were all running. All of a sudden we're like "we're not far enough," which we heard a lot of them.
All of sudden I see one of our EMTs coming up towards West Street, and he's starting to go in the building. I started screaming, "Get out of there!" One of the cops turned around and said, "Why are you screaming?" "Because you know what, I just ran for my frigging life again. If I'm a little high-strung right now, then you're going to have to understand that."
This guy was going back in the

T. MULQUEEN
building. He's like, "Oh, okay. All right." Why are you screaming? Because he's walking towards a building that might be collapsing? I don't know, you know. It was just funny.
We moved back, and then they checked it out. You see the back corner had collapsed a little bit. But they checked it out. Apparently the building was - - they used it for a triage and then the morgue. I think it's still being used, actually. I think the DMAT teams are in there now.
for.
I don't know what else you're looking
That's great.
Kind of a rambling story.
That's what we're looking for. We're
Q. A. Q.
looking
you as to what you observed. We appreciate that.
A. I'm just meeting people. I met one guy, one of my old partners, and he was off. He said his whole fire company's gone, the whole company. Just running into people like that. When you look at people that you're not going to see again, it's hard. It's very difficult.
for your recollections, a narrative from

T. MULQUEEN
Thank you.
Q. Thank you very much for your
recollections.
MR. McALLISTER: This is Kevin
McAllister again. It is 12:12 on October 4th, 2001, and we're going to conclude the interview now. The interview started at 11:52 hours.

File No. 9110011
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW CHIEF SALVATORE CASSANO
Interview Date: October 4, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason

S. CASSANO
MR. TAMBASCO: This is the interview of - I'm here with Salvatore Cassano. We are in his office on the 7th floor at 9 Metrotech. My name is Mike Tambasco. I'm the investigator assigned to the World Trade Center Task Force. Present in the room with me is Assistant Commissioner James Drury, Fire Marshal Michael Starace, Peter Campbell, Fire Marshal.
Chief, if you would - we are going to be starting this interview at 1350 hours. Just take your time.
Q. I'm going to ask you some questions, Chief.
Could you start from when you initially heard about a plane crash on September 11, 2001?
A. Okay, fine. We were in the command center. I was in the command center at the time the first plane hit. We were sitting around the table and at the table was Chief of the Department Pete Ganci, Citywide Tour Commander Donald Burns, Citywide Tour Commander Jerry Barbara and Citywide Tour Commander Joe Callan. There may have been some other people there. I don't remember, but I know at least we were there.
Q. Where was this command center, Chief?
A. The command center was in the back. It was

S. CASSANO
the citywide tour command center. It's right behind the fire operations center. There is a room back there where we have our offices.
Q.
     A.
talking
events,
message
On the 7th floor?
Right, on the 7th floor. We were just
about the day's events, the previous day's
when on the Department radio, there was a blurted out that - something to the effect that
the outside of the World Trade Center was on fire. So that sort of perked up our ears, and not knowing what was going on, everybody naturally did what they do. They got up and started to move out, and I stayed there a little longer just to see what the transmission was, and I remember hearing something about a plane hitting the World Trade Center, so now I really got my gear and my motor in gear.
I came out of the office, came down to look for Chief Ganci. Pete was already on the road. I looked out the window and in the office with me was
Mike Canty, Battalion Chief. We looked out the window and we saw that the plane had hit the tower. We actually saw a lot of smoke coming from the World Trade Center. I said wow. With that I turned around and I left. I went down to my car. My aide was actually

S . CASSANO
driving Donald Burns the day before. So he had to stay with Donald Burns and had driven Donald Burns, so I drove myself.
I got in my car, drove out of the building and was naturally listening to the reports and all the reports we heard, you know, including a transmittal of a fifth alarm. I came out and over the Brooklyn Bridge. All I could see - being that I was driving, I really couldn't get a good look, but I did see a heavy column of smoke in the sky. I drove over the Brooklyn Bridge.
I went down and actually had 2 EMTs in my
car. One was a black man. I don't know who the other fellow was. They asked me for a ride over to the Trade Center. I took Brad with me and Brad could t e l l you who the other fellow was, because I don't remember.
And they were in the back seat. That's what I was doing. And we drove down, we came actually onto West Broadway. I parked right by - I was trying to park by 7 World Trade Center, so I ended up on West Broadway and Vesey, right on the corner, right adjacent to the Federal Office Building.
Then as we were getting out of the car, the second plane hit the south tower, just as we were

S. CASSANO
stepping out of the car. We had some debris come flying down on us. Brad and the other fellow took
off. I cleared into my
Q.
ran into a garage, waited till everything up and then when it calmed down, I got back car and we went - -
You were going to go pick up your car?
We went down. I got back in the car after
A.
the smoke and all had cleared from the second hit and I ended up going down, possibly Murray Street to West Street. I parked my car on West Street, probably somewhere near Barclay, probably a little further north of that. I got my bunker gear out of the car. I suited up and I looked up and I could see the heavy smoke condition.
I started to walk down West Street and I got in front of tower two and saw where the command post was set up. It was set up on West Street. I looked up and I knew this was not the right place for the command post, so I told the field communications unit, I said this is too close to the building. We have to move this out of here and get it back.
So they took the command post and moved it further across the street, further west. I'm not exactly sure where the garage is, but it's probably in

S. CASSANO
front of the Millennium. Not the Millennium. Sorry. It's probably in front of the Two World Financial Center and Winter Garden. There is a garage down there where we set up. You will know, if you have been down there. You will see it. It was there.
So what we did was we set up the command post there across the street, further away from the building. At the command post we had Chief of Department Ganci, myself, field communications and numerous companies. I don't remember. I remember seeing the 101 truck, 202 engine, I think it was 105; companies like that.
Then Chief Galvin reported into that command post, and he had been given an assignment to go to work with either Chief Burns in the south tower or go to the Millennium. Again, I'm not exactly sure what the instructions were that he was given by Chief of Department Ganci and before Tom went to the command post, he was getting all the channels right. He said one was going to be the tactical and either 5 was going to be the command in the south tower or 6 was going to be the command for the north tower and he was trying to get everything down pat before he left. With that he took off and he went on his way.

S. CASSANO
After looking over the command board and helping communications with the command board, talking to Chief Ganci, he asked me to go in there and rendezvous with Chief Galvin to see what was going on. So from the command post I walked across the street. I went into the Millennium, into the lobby, where I saw Chief Galvin, who was kind of overwhelmed. He was the only one there. His aide had gone someplace and he was very busy.
But inside the lobby of the Millennium it was very quiet. Very few civilians. In fact, I didn't see a civilian. All I saw were building employees. They were very calm. So I went into the lobby of the
hotel. We saw 13 truck with Captain Walter Hynes, who I knew, and Captain Dave Wooley, who is usually with engine 54. I saw 11 truck in the lobby. Actually they were up on the mezzanine.
I saw 23 engine and I assigned 23 engine to be the command post company for the Millennium to help out Chief Galvin. We were getting overwhelmed with phone numbers and elevators and all that and keeping a record of the companies. So I gave 23 engine that assignment. Stay in the lobby and be the command post company for Chief Galvin. You are his aide.

S. CASSANO
After conversing with Chief Galvin for a while, taking his numbers on the desk, security desk, so we could converse with them if we needed to get in touch with them, I took the phone number. I took the companies that were in the lobby and went towards the restaurant. There is a restaurant, Tall Ships, in that building. Went in there, went to the bathroom. Came out. There were some people in the restaurant. They looked kind of confused. I told them stay here, it's safe right now. There's people jumping and stuff like that. I was afraid of them walking across the street and getting hurt by falling debris.
I left the lobby. I left the restaurant by way of Liberty. I came out that exit, started to walk up Liberty to West, where I met Commissioner Feehan and Commissioner Tierney. I talked to them. I actually showed them where the command post was. I told them to walk away from the building because there were jumpers and get close to a fence. There was like a chain link fence across the street. We walked along the chain link fence and walked close to the building. When we got to the building, I brought them to the command post.
We stayed at the command post for a while,

S. CASSANO
helping out Chief Ganci, and then the south tower collapsed. When the south tower collapsed, what we did was we either ran, got blown or fell down that garage, into that garage. That's where we all went. And after the dust and smoke cleared, someone showed us an exit. I went up an exit stairway and came out the lobby of the building. Some people, I guess, just stayed there until it really cleared and came up out of the garage, the ramp itself.
So they had told us there was an exit out the rear of that building to - actually further towards the water. So we started telling people to go back into that building, go out the rear exit and go towards the water. Chief Ganci told me to set up a command post further north towards Chambers Street. And that's what I started to do. I started to walk north to try to get people to set up a command post further north and I believe that's when Pete and I got separated. Pete started to go further south.
At the corner of West and Vesey, I met Chief Turi. He had a bull horn. He had full bunker gear on and he wanted people to get further north. I told him I was setting up a command post on Chambers and let's move north, get out of here.

S . CASSANO
Then I met Chief Pete Hayden and Chief Joe Pfeifer. Deputy Hayden, DC Pfeifer. They were i n the lobby of the north tower. And they got from - when the south tower collapsed, the lobby got pretty crappy. They came out of there and they were all full of dust and all that and I saw Pete Hayden and I looked at Pete and said where were you? He said I was in the lobby of two and he said Father Judge is dead. I had just been with Father Judge. I had seen Father Judge on Church - sorry - West Street. I realized - I said Pete we have people up there, the building is loaded with our guys. We got to get them out of there.
I tried to call Chief Ganci on the handy talky. I was calling car 3. For some reason we couldn't touch base. So I told Pete Hayden and Joe Pfeifer, we got to move the command post further north, start moving north. Get them out of here. I'm going to go look for Pete and tell him what we got. They started to move, I turned around and started walking down West Street to find Chief Ganci.
Q. Going south?
A. I was going south. I was trying to find him, to let him know we still got a lot of people in the north building. We got to get them out of there and

S . CASSANO
that's when tower one came down, so I was on West Street. I looked up. There was a jet plane. It sounded - I mean it sounded like another plane coming over and I said holy god, I hope it's one of ours. I looked up. It wasn't ours. There was a building coming down.
I turned around and started running north on West and I looked up. I knew I wasn't going to make it any further. There was a rig on the corner of West and Vesey. I dove under the rig and waited out there. I got hit in the back with some concrete or something like that. As soon as everything cleared up - I don't know where it came from, but coming down - I met Pete Hayden again after that. He had gone up Rector. I met him. He gave me a hug and said are you all right? I'm
fine, I thought, I was all right. I couldn't walk. I had gotten hit in the back.
A couple of EMTs with their stretcher put me on it and wheeled me up into a building. I guess there was a triage center there in the building on - right by the water. From there they took me to St. Vincent's Hospital. I got out of there about 3. I came back here and I started working here. That's pretty much what happened.

S. CASSANO
Q. Let me start with a couple of questions, Chief. Going back to the command center on West Street, you said when the south tower came down, you ran down the driveway?
A. Uh-huh.
Q. Did you see Chief Ganci at that point - -
A. I saw him afterwards. We all took off, but I
met him back on the apron afterwards. That's when he told me, he said, we got to get people up north. We are going to set up another command post. Send everybody up north. That's when I talked to Pete and that's what I was in the process of doing. Pete turned around and went south. I think he heard that we had people trapped and that's when he went south. I did see him after the first collapse. We were talking. He had given me instructions, and I was trying to carry them out.
Q. What about Commissioner Feehan, did you see him running to the collapse?
A. I can't recollect, but I believe I saw him afterwards. I believe I saw him afterwards with Pete. I believe everybody that was on that apron made it into the garage, because when we came back out we looked around. There was rubble, but nothing where we

S. CASSANO
couldn't see somebody if they were trapped under there. Q. Now you said when you came around and you saw
Chief Turi with a bull horn, you started heading south again, because you wanted to talk to Chief Ganci about possibly - - our guys in the north tower.
A. North tower, yes.
Q. How far down did you get in relation to where the command post on West Street was when the north tower started coming down?
A. I really don't know. I thought I got - - I didn't get down too far, but I think I got down further than I thought I did because I - - people that were on the corner that were with me made it all the way around on Vesey. I couldn't. I made it just to the corner of West and Vesey. So I don't really know. I got down a little further than I thought.
Q. Okay. Then you said center outside the north tower said it's too close, we got to
A. Right.
Q. Where had it been in
tower when you decided it had to be moved?
A. It was right in the middle of West Street. They might have had it on the island. On West Street
they had the command early on and then you move it?
relation to the north

S . CASSANO
there is an island. They might have had it right on the island. Much too close. We moved it across the street and right against the building in that driveway, yes.
Q. You say you parked your car originally at West Broadway and Vesey?
A. Right by 7 World Trade Center.
Q. Is there any particular reason you moved it again after that?
A. No, I wanted to get closer -- I knew that that was too far away. So I wanted to get closer to where I thought the command post would be or get into the north tower and I didn't want to walk all the way around to there, so I drove my car, parked it on West Street with the intention of not being caught in all the other stuff that was there, get it out of the way.
Q. Other than the ladder companies or engine companies you already delineated inside of the Millennium Hotel, other than the workers, how many civilians did you see in that restaurant?
A. I would say probably six or seven civilians in the restaurant.
Q. On Vesey Street when you first arrived there, what was the scene like? That was where the f i r s t

S. CASSANO
plane that hit. Was there any debris on that street? A. No, there was no debris on that street at all
from
like
- - I
know
when
to be debris flying over from the south tower. Not much, but there was enough coming down in the street where I took off and I ducked into a garage until it cleared up.
the first plane. I drove right up there and then I said, I had just opened my door and the second thought it was the secondary explosion. I didn't it was another plane in the south tower, because
I heard it, I looked up and I saw debris. It had
After the secondary explosion in the north tower, I didn't know what the hell - I didn't know it was another plane that had hit until I got around to the command post.
Q. Do you know now that rig you dived under?
A. Yes, I believe it was Rescue's collapse rig. I remember seeing rescue - they told me - - on that
corner, Q. A. Q. A. told me
it was Rescue's collapse rig.
It withstood the blast?
Yes, thank god.
Was it the high rise unit?
No, not the high rise unit. I think they
the windows were blown out or something like

S. CASSANO
that, but nothing heavy fell on me.
Q. What time do you think it was that you
actually left this building that day, that morning? A. Probably 5 to 9. I ran right out. I was a
little behind everybody else.
Q. And the last time you saw Chief Burns was? A. Last time I saw Chief Burns was at the
command center and when he left the command center, I never saw him at the scene.
Q. Did you hear him on the radio at all?
A. No, in fact I was asking where they were working, because they told me that Chief Barbara had set up outside and I couldn't find him. I was looking for him too. I couldn't find him. That's where I met Commissioner Feehan and Commissioner Tierney and they asked me where was the command post. I said probably you just got to walk around the outside and get out of the way of anything that's coming out of the building.
Q. Did you ever hear later on that the initial command post was inside one of the towers?
A. No. I knew that there had to be a lobby command post, but we set up outside with Chief Ganci. He was the incident commander at that time and I knew exactly where he was going to stage, so that's where I

S. CASSANO
staged.
Q. When you left the restaurant in the
Millennium, did you see Chief Galvin still inside the lobby there?
A. Yes.
Q. What block did you come down when you met Commissioner Feehan and Commissioner Tierney?
A. I came out on Liberty and I met them right there, in fact, where the south walkway still is. I met them right around there, in that vicinity, and they wanted to know where, so I walked them that way across and came down on West Street.
Q. A. Q.
them up A. Q. A.
Q. You mentioned jumpers before. Did you see
On what street, West and Liberty?
Yes, yes.
You actually walked north with them to bring
to the command post? Absolutely right.
West across and then up?
I don't know where. I think Lynn went into the lobby somewhere. I don't know. I don't know. I think they told me she was in the lobby and then Bill went to the lobby too. I stayed at the command board with Pete Ganci. I stayed there.

them?
A. Yes.
S. CASSANO
Q. Both towers?
A. I didn't see jumpers from the south tower. I saw jumpers from the north tower and it sounded like concrete falling, hitting the pavement. That's what I was concerned with, those people in the restaurant, to get them out and getting hit with either the jumpers or something falling, windows. I was worried about
glass.
Q. You mentioned Father Judge. Where did you last see him?
A. I saw Father Judge as I was walking to the Millennium. He was on West Street. And I saw him come out and I walked up to him, gave him a smile. I told him Father Judge, we are going to need a lot of help here. You better get some more chaplains. He smiled and said something. I forget what he said. I don't remember what he said. That was the last time I saw him.
Q. Anything else? A. No.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: Chief, thank you very much. Mike, you can conclude it.

19
S. CASSANO
MR. TAMBASCO: The interview is now concluded at 1410 hours. Thank you, Chief.

F i l e No. 9110012
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT FELIPE TORRE
Interview Date: October 9, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason

F. TORRE
MR. FEILER: Today's date is October 9, 2001. The time now is 714 hours a.m. This is Lieutenant Monte Feiler with the Fire Department of the City of New York. I'm conducting an interview with the following individual.
Q. A. Q.
EMT Torre, if you can just begin and give me a scenario of where you were during the time frame of September 11 in the morning.
A. That morning I started to do a second tour of overtime. We were coming out of New York Hospital Queens. We had just taken a patient there and we were redeployed to the World Trade Center incident. We gave the dispatcher an update when we got there and we made it to Broadway and Murray Street and that is as far as you could go, because we were stopped by numerous police personnel and civilians because a lot of people that were hurt and needed assistance. We radioed in and I notified the dispatcher, the Citywide dispatcher, that we were not able to make it to the staging area.
Please state your name, rank and command? Felipe Torre, EMT, Battalion 50.
At Battalion 50, New York City Fire Department, EMS command, regarding the events of September 11, 2001.

F . TORRE
My partner and I, we got out, took our equipment, and you know, we separated. He attended to some patients and I attended to another. In the process of helping other people, over the radio we also heard that the second tower was hit. A lot of pandemonium, a lot of people were really scared. So was I. We were trying to help as much and control as much people as we can.
Then the first -- one of the towers fell
down.
Q. Did you see that?
A. Yes. We were trying to help a couple of
people into the ambulance and we got caught up in all that debris, you know.
Q. Did you at any point go into any of the buildings?
A. I was tending to some people at the CitiBank on Broadway and Murray.
Q. They were being brought t o you?
A. They, the police stopped us. I think a couple of bank managers also were out and they hailed us. I believe I was helping some young lady that was cut, I believe it was on the leg. She was bleeding, then there was other people that were complaining of

F . TORRE
chest pain and they had respiratory distress and we were trying to see if we could get some other units to help us.
Q. Were you parked on Broadway southbound? A. Y es.
Q. North of Murray?
A. Yes,and--
Q. You were flagged for injured people, you never actually got to whatever staging area you were told to go to?
A. Right. We never made it there. All hell broke loose, because it came over my radio, people yelling to get out, they were bombing New York. So we never really finished providing care for these people, because they a l l panicked and they a l l stampede out. We followed out, because everybody was wanting to get out. The walls shook and then we felt it when a rumbling and some people were yelling earthquake.
Q. Was your partner with you the whole time?
A. We separated because there was so many people that wanted help. People, when we got to Manhattan, there was people already on their way out and people had fallen, people had shortness of breath, so he went one way and I went another. When the tower did fall, I

F . TORRE
didn't know where he was. He didn't know where I was.
I personally got caught up in that big cloud of debris and the only thing I could think of was getting to the ambulance, which was parked. We had parked it, we l e f t it right there. I know that we got caught up with a couple of the police officers and couple of civilians and all I can think of was just putting them in there and just easing the ambulance out and that's how we got out.
Q. You drove of it out?
A. We drove out of it yes, and we were advised to --
Q. You found your partner, your partner came back out?
A. Yes, he came back out. We also helped out Captain Olszewski, she, she came out of that rubble. We were all covered in that dust, but she was, I guess she was -- we were all choking, but she was really bad and I got her into the ambulance. I was trying to get as many people out and she had I guess stepped out, because I didn't know where she had went.
Q. What was your unit number that day? A. I was 50 Adam.
Q. Who was your partner that day?

F . TORRE
A. David Cira.
Q. David?
A. C- I-R-A.
Q. Were you told a specific staging area to go
to over the radio?
A. Yes, they -- but they had changed it. I
believe it was Vesey and West. I know it was Vesey Street, Vesey and I think the West Side Highway, as far as I can remember, but we never made it there.
Q. Where did you say you were?
A. We were a t Broadway and Murray.
Q. You were a few blocks away?
A. Right.
Q. What time do you think you got there,
approximately?
A. It was before the second plane hit I guess. Q. I guess 9:15. Anywhere around - -
A. We got there before the second plane hit, so
we got there after the first plane. Everybody was speculating that it was a possibility that it was a news helicopter that had lost control and slammed into the tower.
Q. Where did you get that information from?
A. It came through the KDT. It was something

F . TORRE
about an aircraft that I believe that I read, that it was a possibility that lost control.
Q. You were on the scene for how long would you say before the second plane hit approximately?
A. It seems like it happened so fast, but we were there when the second plane hit and we were there when the f i r s t tower collapsed. So I don't know, I guess you could say, what, 40 minutes.
Q. You said a t some point you had some civilians on board when you left that Broadway and Murray location?
A. Yes, we never left, we, my partner and I, we separated. He went and helped out some people. I was helping out some people and the second plane hit and of course over my radio there was just a lot of people were yelling and they were talking about terrorists and they were talking about bombing, so everybody heard it and everybody panicked. It seemed like we were right there because the whole building shook and then the ambulance was right parked at the street.
Q. Did you see any other apparatus go by, fire engines or EMS units?
A. Yes, yes, I believe there was a Booth, a New York Hospital Queens unit. There was like two other

F . TORRE
units, but we a l l went separate ways because there were so many people that needed help. Then I guess, I don't know which tower fell down, but that caught us. All of a sudden, bright sunny day became pitch dark and we were a l l choking and we couldn't see and a l l I remember was get to the ambulance. I think I took about 6 police officers that they also were caught up in there and I just told them get in the ambulance. I think I took like 2 or 3 civilians. I had no idea.
I was afraid also because some of the people said look, there i s a guy from EMS that i s laying on the floor. They had told me. I said I didn't know if it was my partner or not. But you couldn't see anything. So I didn't know where that might be. We couldn't see anything. What I did was I did a U turn and edged my way out of that location, then my partner showed up like a block away. I stepped to the back and he took us out of there. They told us whatever patient we get, take them out of Manhattan, so we just
notified, we asked for a stand by at New York Hospital Queens. I believe it was like 6 officers, about 3 civilians that we brought in. That was it. I came back.
Q. Did you see any other EMS personnel besides

F. TORRE
those going by, anyone in the street, any officers, EMS officers?
A. Like I said we were helping out Captain Olszewski. She wasn't doing too good, but then she stepped out. We washed her face.
Q. Do you know where she went?
A. No, I, you know, I told her to stay, she wasn't doing too good, but came back to Queens and we started seeing - - she had walked out, so I don't know
where she saw a lot recognize Everybody
had gone. But that, I do remember that. I of other people, EMS people, but I don't them. They could have been Manhattan units. was doing something.
Q.
would that be?
You met your partner one block away, where
A. You know, we were on Murray and Broadway. I made a U turn, so I'm not sure if it was on Broadway that we were on or on Murray, but - - I don't know, I really couldn't tell you a precise, but thank god when I saw him I was relieved, because everybody told me that he was hurt.
Q. He had patients with him at that time?
A. No, no. Because I had the ambulance. He had came out and whoever we were helping, everybody was

F . TORRE
just going crazy. Then after that it was trying to help your own selves.
Q. And you transported to a hospital?
A. New York Hospital, Queens, the old Booth Memorial.
Q. You weren't there when the second building collapsed?
A. I don't think so. I don't know which one had collapsed, but we were there when.
Q. The first one came down?
A. Yes, one of them came down. I took police officers from the -- the Bronx, the 49 precinct.
Q. Did you get their names, were you ever able to get their names?
A. Oh, yes, we did ACR's on them. Yes, we did ACR's. I'm not sure. I think it was like 6 officers and about 3 civilians. We tried our best. I know that one of them suffered, one of the civilians, an older lady, she suffered an MI, and I think one of the officers had an asthma attack. We all, they were all,
I was trying to give everybody time on the oxygen, because there was two on board and the two on the portable bags that we had and I had like 6 cops and 3 civilians, something like that, so we were trying to

F. TORRE
help each other, as well as myself. We took them to the hospital and that's all I know. They told me to
come back Q.
A. Q. A.
here.
You came back to the Battalion?
Yes.
You never responded back?
No, no. I never went back there. Besides,
the ambulance wasn't fit to go back. It was just filled with all that dust and a lot of the people had either vomited or spit it all over.
Q. When the first building collapsed, you and your partner were separated, you were by yourself tending to patients?
A. Well, when we got there we never made it to the staging, because a lot of the police officers just flagged us down and I recall that they flagged us down at Broadway and Murray. We were in front of the, I believe it was CitiBank. The employees of the banks said look, we got a lot of people that are hurt. There was a young lady that had a laceration, I believe. I don't know if it was to the foot or leg. That's when a short time later, that's when the second plane hit, so I never got a chance to finish trying to control bleeding.

F. TORRE
There was also people that were complaining of chest pains and stuff like that. So I never got a chance to see all these people because once the second plane hit, it came over the radio that terrorists and bombing, so of course, everybody a l l panicked, got out and just started running and the lady with the cut, I don't know where she went. We a l l ended up outside. That's when one of the towers fell.
Q. Where were you at that point when the first tower fell?
A. Q. A.
At that location, Broadway and Murray.
In the street or in the CitiBank?
We had came out because we didn't know what
was going on. First they said they were bombing New York. A lot of people were talking about earthquakes and everybody just scattered. Somebody had told me that my partner was hurt and then all you could see is that big cloud. We can hear the rumbling, you could hear. We just saw that cloud, we turned around and it all caught us. I was with the -- I can't remember her name, but it was a police officer, female police officer.
She grabbed on to me. She got scared. I was scared, because we heard a l l that rumbling and we could

F . TORRE
only imagine that parts of the tower was falling down. My concern was if we stay there we were going to get hit. But like I said, day turned to night and all I could think of was get to the ambulance, because I knew we had oxygen there and at least we can at least inch our way out. But when they heard the radio, a lot of people just made like a Cuban chain. She clinged on to me and then they clinged on to her and I said look, let's get in the ambulance, get some oxygen, we had water. We were able to wash our faces out.
So like I said, there was about I think 6 officers. They brought I think about 3 civilians came in. As much as I could get in and I turned around and we inched our way out and then thank god my partner showed up and we notified them that we were taking them to the old Booth.
Q. You were working off a radio, do you remember what channel you were on?
A. Citywide .
Q. Did you always stay on that channel, were you initially on that channel or did you ever change to it and did you change any other frequency after that?
A. No, afterwards they told us to stay on Citywide. We were - -

F . TORRE
Q. You were initially on Queens?
A. We were on Queens, right. We were on Queens, then they told us to switch to Citywide. A lot of people were calling for help. I was calling for help. We just notified them that we were going to go to the Queens Hospital.
Q. Okay. Was there any persons from people that
you can identify being on the scene, any
uniformed workers that you know by name,
or EMTs that you know that you saw while
operating on the scene until you left the scene that you saw present there?
A. You know, I saw a few people, but I don't know their names. The only one that I can recall was Captain Olszewski. I saw Hunter units that were also there. Metro Care units.
Q. EMS officers, other than the Captain, that's the only one you saw?
A. I saw other officers, but like I said I don't know them by name.
Q. Were they running away from the building, were they running into another building?
A. When we first got there, there were two units pulled up. We got there and like I said a lot of
other
any paramedics you were

F. TORRE
people stopped us, so we never made it to the staging or to the triage. Then they pulled up, I believe it was New York Hospital Queens paramedic ambulance. They also tended to other people saying that they was having chestpains. IthinkSaintVincent'sCatholicMedical Center paramedic ambulance was also there.
Q.
were? A.
here in Q.
or - -
A. recall.
But you can't identify who the individuals
I can remember their faces, because they work Queens, but I don't know their names offhand. You saw them again afterwards that same day
No, I haven't seen them recently that I
If they show me pictures or something, I bet I
can recall them.
Q. Okay. Any fire officers did you see that you
know, that you would know who they are? A. By me, no.
MR. FEILER: At this time I would like to ask the other interviewers to state their name, rank and command.
MS. ROM: Lieutenant Pat Rom, from the Bureau of Investigations and Trials.
MS. MAGGI: EMT Diana Maggi from

F. TORRE
Investigations and Trials.
Q. Is there anything else that you would like to add before we conclude the interview that you think is important?
A. No.
MR. FEILER: At this time we will conclude
the interview. I want to thank you for your time in assisting us with this. The time now is 7:35 a.m. This will conclude the interview.

File No. 9110013
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT ANTHONY BARTOLOMEY
Interview Date: October 9, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis

A. BARTOLOMEY
MS. BASTEDENBECK: Today's date is October 9th, 2001. The time is 0916 hours. This is Christine Bastedenbeck of the Fire Department of the City of New York. I'm with Christopher Eccleston. We're conducting an interview with the following individual:
Q. Please state your name, rank, title, and your assigned command of the Fire Department regarding the events of September llth, 2001.
A. My name is Anthony Bartolomey, an EMT assigned to EMS Battalion 4.
Q. What unit were you working on September ll? A. 02 Bravo Tour I.
Q. Who were you working with on that day?
A. Pasquale Felitti.
Q. On that morning, were you assigned to the World Trade Center?
A. Yes.
Q. Approximately what time?
A. At approximately 8:55 a.m.
Q. At approximately what time did you arrive? A. At about 8:58.
Q. On your way there, were you able to see
anything that was happening?
A. Debris floating in the air from the towers,

A. BARTOLOMEY
people running away from the towers and vehicles left abandoned in the street. We were approaching from Broadway coming westbound on Cortlandt Street. There were two taxicabs and a soda truck left abandoned by their drivers. My partner actually got out of the vehicle and pulled the vehicles over to the side so we could get the ambulance through. We made a right turn onto Church Street, parked on Church and Fulton in front of the Millenium Hotel on the southeast corner.
Q. When you arrived there, did any civilians report anything to you?
A. Yes. Numerous civilians were telling me that a plane had hit the building. There were discrepancies as to the type of plane. Some were saying it was a Cessna or Leer jet type, a small jet plane. Some said it was a large passenger plane. One person actually said that it was like a military style plane that actually shot missiles into the building.
Q. Who did you report to when you first got there?
A. When we got there, there were no supervisors on the scene. We reported to a paramedic unit from New York Downtown, I believe it was 1 Victor. They're paramedics based out of Beekman Downtown Hospital.

A. BARTOLOMEY
They had had their vehicle on the corner of Vesey and Church, on the southwest corner, i n front of 5 World Trade by Borders Bookstore. They already had three patients in their vehicle. There were more patients approaching as we had gotten there. So we grabbed our equipment out of our vehicle and walked up a block to them. It was them and a crew from 1 Adam was there also treating some patients. Nobody had established staging a t that time yet, or, i f they had, it hadn't come up over the radio. So pretty much we stayed where we were and started to treat patients there.
Q. That was where; at the corner of --
A. The corner of Vesey and Church Street.
Q. Okay. Then just tell me the events that you
remember happening.
A. Then as we were starting to treat some more
patients, we heard rumbling. We thought maybe it was debris falling from the tower. You look up and you see the flame of the plane hitting the second building.
When you see the footage on TV, you see it fly in one side and the fireball shot out through the other side. We actually saw the fireball shot out from the north side of that building.
Everybody got behind the vehicle to brace

A. BARTOLOMEY
themselves against any debris that was coming down. Debris came down. There was glass and metal hitting the ground around us. That's when we decided to get out of that area because we didn't know what else was going to come down on us. So we got the people that were able to walk from there, we got them to walk, got ourselves out of there.
I'm not sure where my partner went after that. I went towards the subway station on Church Street in front of that cemetery. It's by the Trinity Church annex. Because people were standing there just like deer in the headlights kind of thing, just staring.
Q. Did you walk at that point?
A. I ran, actually.
Q. You ran. Okay.
A. It was only across the street because we were
on the west side of the street. The subway station is on the east side. There's a double entrance. Two stairways converge into one. They go down into the mezzanine level. People were just standing there. I was telling them get down, get underground, because they're sitting there while stuff is still falling on them. So I get them down there.

A. BARTOLOMEY
That's where I started finding patients and apparently somebody was there with -- I guess he must have been treated and the crew that was there ran and he got left behind because he had a cervical collar and he had a triage tag around his neck. So I had a couple of civilians help me carry him down the stairs to the bottom, to the mezzanine level, where the token clerk is, put him there, and then they had another patient who was a female. She had fallen and hit her head.
She had a lump about the size of a golf ball on her forehead. She was going i n and out of consciousness.
We put her down next to the other guy. Then there was an elderly female who felt weak in the legs and was unable to walk. So now I had three patients there in front of the token booth.
So I go back upstairs, come up on the radio, let them know, you know, I'm half crew. I don't know where my partner is. I've got three patients not able t o walk. I need somebody t o get them out of there because a t that point I had no equipment on me either. Slowly but surely the police started coming down with some equipment to help carry the patients out. We got the third one out of there. I forget exactly what time. It was right before the towers fell, which that

A. BARTOLOMEY
was about between 9:55 and 10:00, approximately. Because we had gotten back upstairs with the last patient and there was nobody around. There were police officers there saying the tower was in danger of collapse and so they were evacuating the immediate area.
So we went up one block to Barclay Street. We were still on Church walking northbound. We got to St. Peter's Church, and I'm not sure who these people were, I'm not sure if they were federal or plainclothes police officers also, told us start setting up a triage over in front of St. Peter's Church because at this point nobody really was sure where everybody was
going. So anybody who could walk was walking, getting out of the immediate area.
So we still had this one guy on a long board with a collar on him, and they brought one other person over who was in a stair chair. I forget exactly what his injuries were. I believe he had hurt his ankle or something like that. That's when we heard the rumbling of the tower starting to collapse and we started to get people inside the church because you saw the cloud of the smoke and the soot that was kicked up when the tower fell. At the rate of speed it was coming up the

A. BARTOLOMEY
street, we weren't going to be able to outrun it, so we decided the best bet would be to get back in inside. We got who we could inside. I got caught outside of the church when the dust cloud overcame me and then I felt my way back in. There were some other officers and people inside the church, and we waited there until the dust subsided a little bit so we could get out.
At that point I lost track of time. I couldn't tell you exactly what time everything happened after that. We get outside I was complaining my throat was burning from breathing in - - I don't think how long I was outside breathing in all the soot and
everything. There was a unit from Booth Memorial Hospital, another ambulance unit. They already had patients in their vehicle. They took me and told me to go with them, and then they brought me up to Roosevelt Hospital.
Q. And you became a patient there?
A. Yes.
Q. Where were you when the second tower
collapsed?
A. I'm not sure because, like I said, I
track of time. So I'm not sure if I was still
church when the second tower came down because we were
lost
in the

A. BARTOLOMEY
in there for quite a while before you could see outside enough to step out because the soot and the dust, the black in the sky to the point where it looked like it was nighttime outside.
Q. You said you ended up going to the hospital with a Booth Memorial unit?
A. Yes.
Q. In the time that you were down at the scene of the Trade Center, did you run into any EMTs or paramedics that you knew?
A. I ran into one, but I didn't know him. He said he was from Brooklyn.
Q. Was he on duty or off duty, in a uniform?
A. He had the uniform shirt, but he was wearing jeans, so I'm assuming he was off duty at the time.
Q. But you didn't know his name?
A. I didn't know who he was. He just said he worked out of Brooklyn.
Q. The only place you went prior to the collapse was into the subway station?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was - -
A. The E train. It's the World Trade Center
station of the E train.

A. BARTOLOMEY
Q. From which street did you enter into that?
A. From Church Street in between I believe it's Cortlandt - - no. Fulton and Vesey. Right here in front of St. Paul's cemetery.
Q. You never went into the Trade Center buildings themselves?
A. No. The closest I got was in the front, right here, where Borders Bookstore was, which is right over here. That was as close as I got. I never actually went inside the building, no.
Q. So for the first collapse you had gone to St. Peter's Church?
A. Yes.
Q. As the building came down and the cloud of smoke approached you, you felt your way into the church?
A. Yes.
Q. Then you came outside and you're not even aware of when the second tower came down?
A. No.
Q. Do you know approximately what time you became a patient?
A. That would probably be around between 10:30 and 11:OO. I have the paperwork from the hospital. I

A. BARTOLOMEY
don't have it with me. But it would tell you what time I got to the hospital and the time I was released.
Q. Okay. Is there anything else that you'd like to include in the interview, anything you want to say?
A. No, that's about it.
MS. BASTEDENBECK: Then this concludes the
interview with EMT Anthony Bartolomey. The time now is 9:28 on October 9, 2001.

File No. 9110014
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMTD CHRISTOPHER KAGENAAR
Interview Date: October 9, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis

C. KAGENAAR
MR. RADENBERG: Today is September 9th, 2001. The time is 1533 hours. This is Paul Radenberg of the Fire Department, City of New York. I am conducting an interview with the following individual:
Q. Please state your name, rank and title. A. EMTD Christopher John Kagenaar.
Q. Your assigned command?
A. My assigned command is Battalion 31.
Q. Of the Fire Department, City of New York? A. That is correct.
Q. We are at EMS Battalion 31. This interview is regarding the events of September llth, 2001.
All yours. This is not so much by the
questions but what you recall.
A. Pretty much coming out of the station,
because the station is always overlooking the World Trade Center, that as we got the signal over the KDT and we were pulling out of the station, I thought it was like a little fire, and then we come out and there's like people from Cumberland Hospital looking up at it and there was like black, thick smoke coming out of the World Trade Center Tower 1 and we're like, wow, this is real, because you really didn't know how bad it was until we got over the Brooklyn Bridge, when we got

C. KAGENAAR
near the Brooklyn Bridge. It looked like a war zone. Cops, firemen, vehicles, all the lights heading over the bridge. It was crazy. It was like it was a movie.
Then as soon as we got over there, as soon as we got off of the Brooklyn Bridge, the people were running like it was a Godzilla movie, and we had to stop there for a while. People were overcome, were shaken, were scared, minor cuts and bruises, and we had to stop and do that, and there was a Lieutenant that showed up and said, look, you guys have to get over to the scene. You guys can't stay here. So finally when PD got control of the area, we moved over to I think it was Church. I think it was Church area.
What happened was then the second plane hit the tower, and it was a loud noise, I mean, it hit, and at first I was like this can't be happening. It's like lightning doesn't strike twice. Then the second plane hit the tower, so now we know, oh, my God, what's really going on here now?
So it was just a lot of confusion, everybody started running again, and then we set up and we started treating people, I mean, minor cuts and scrapes, and some people had serious damage.

C. KAGENAAR
MR. TAMBASCO: Do you recall where you were when this was happening? I don't know if the map would help you at all.
When you first came off the bridge, the Brook1yn Bridge, do you remember where you were?
A. We were over here on Church. Because he was Haz-Tac, so I had to set up like 200 feet away and stuff .
So on Church Street somewhere? A. Right.
Q. Somewhere on Church. You were down by the towers?
A.
Q.
     A.
everybody
the truck
dove down
Reade and
scene and
Yes, I was down by the towers.
Okay.
Then, when the second tower came down, started running, big cloud of smoke. I left open because I couldn't find Harris and I
a train station. Then I came back up on
I got back in there and came back to the
I see my ambulance. It was still there, but
Q.
Q.
it was like full of dust and soot. Because in case Harris could have made it to the truck, he could have dove in the truck to save himself. There was just total devastation. I've never seen anything like it

C . KAGENAAR
before in my life. So Russell had --
Q. Your partner, Russell?
A. Right. Russell Harris.
Q. He hadn't l e f t you while you were there; you
were s t i l l with the ambulance?
A. Right. I had to be with the ambulance while
he went in to go Haz-Tac, to suit up.
Q. Oh, okay. All right. So he was suiting up
with the Haz-Tac stuff? A. Right.
Q. Then you lost sight of him?
A. Right.
Q. Do you remember where the train station was
that you went in?
A. No. I didn't even look. I just dove down
the train station. Then I walked for like a little bit and I came back out when all the dust and soot cleared and everything.
Q. Where did you go from there?
A. I went right back to the truck.
Q. Right back to the truck?
A. Right back to the truck because I thought
maybe he could have made it to the truck. Q. Then you stayed there?

C. KAGENAAR
A. I stayed there. I met up with somebody whose name is Morrison. He was off duty and he showed up.
Q. An EMS guy?
A. Yes, an EMS guy. He showed up with shorts and Timberland boots and he just wanted to help out. So I was like, that's it, you're with me, we're going to stick together, and we went over to the staging. But we also had to run when the first tower came down. It was like the first time you thought it was impossible and then the second time it happened, too.
Q. So Russell was still with you when the first one came down or he was gone? In other words, you got there, set up, and he went and set up?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay.
A. I was mostly doing like treating patients and
then a Citywide ambulance would come up and something like that, you know, hey, take this patient.
Q. So when the first tower came down, that's when you went down into the subway, or the second one?
A. The first tower.
Q. The first one. Then you stayed there?
A. Yes. Then the second tower, when the second
tower was coming down, we grabbed as much people and

C. KAGENAAR
personnel as we could, threw them in the back of the ambulance, and we went two blocks and we went down this way so we had the building protecting us as the - - it was nasty because there was such a thick, brown smoke, it was like everything was gone, and it was like that for a while.
Q. So you were heading uptown?
A. Yes.
Q. I got you.
A. Trying to keep the vehicle, one, intact, and
also to try to get - - because I had loaded the back of the ambulance with people just to get them out of the area, cops, firemen, ATF agents, whatever.
Q. Anybody who got in.
A. Yes. Pretty much get in, get in, let's go. Morrison drove and we turned up this way and we just stood there and we waited until that big dust thing blew on everything. It was like a blizzard.
Q. But you had the other building - -
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember what street you wound up on? A. No. I wasn't even looking.
Q. Someplace north.
A. Then they told all the units to start heading

C. KAGENAAR
over to Chelsea Piers, and we went over there and we just stood there. Then they told us, okay, now you're going to go over to Reade and Greenwich. We went to Reade and Greenwich. We stood there. Then the 911 calls kept coming in, but it was like the calls that came in at 9:00 o'clock in the morning and we were backlogged. They started coming back in and like 7 World Trade Center - -
Q. You were hearing all this over the radio?
A. Yes. So every time we tried to like - - we'd see a unit go out of staging and it would go back in, we're like hoping they won't come back. But they came back. So it was getting real depressing. Then finally they moved us over by the Staten Island Ferry and we just sat there until we got released. Pretty much we just stood there like hoping for something to do. We didn't see anything.
Q. Just one other question. When you were talking about that Lieutenant before, when you first got there, was that an EMS Lieutenant?
A. Yes, it was EMS.
Q. It was. Okay. You don't know who it was? A. No. Pretty much I remember there was a Chief
Vilani who was in charge of the Staten Island Ferry and

C . KAGENAAR
he was like keeping us going and stuff. He was like, you know, we lost a lot of people, we don't know who, but we've got to keep going. So it was kind of nice to hear him talk like that. He was very like, you know, keep us going, like got us food and they set up phones for us and everything.
Q. That was Vilani?
A. Yes, Vilani.
Q. EMT Morrison, do you know him or do you know
where he works?
A. He works in the 57.
Q. Battalion 57?
A. Right.
Q. Did you see any other EMS people that you
remember?
A. Well, I was glad to see everybody from my
station was okay because there was a couple that we still didn't know about until the end of the night because we got spread out a l l over the place.
Q. When did you finally wind up catching up with Russell?
A. Actually, I have a Nextel and he finally got ahold of me when he was in the hospital. He told me I'm in Brooklyn Hospital.

C. KAGENAAR
Q. He was able to get you by phone.
A. Yes. Radios, they were saying no unauthorized transmissions, only supervisors and officers got to use the radio and everything.
Q. I guess that's about it, unless you have anything else you want to say.
A. Well. . .
Q. Feel free.
A. I mean, everything went well. You thought it
would have been chaos with everybody running around, not knowing what to do, but pretty much it was something, it was a disaster, but there was like order. There was still a chain of command.
Q. Very good. Thanks. A. No problem.
MR. RADENBERG: The time is now 1542. The interview is concluded.

File No. 9110015
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT RUSSELL HARRIS
Interview Date: October 9, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis

R. HARRIS
MR. TAMBASCO: Today i s October 9th. My name i s Mike Tambasco assigned t o the World Trade Center Task Force. We're doing an interview today regarding the events of September 11th a t the Trade Center. In the room with me is Investigator...
MR. RADENBERG: Paul Radenberg.
MR. TAMBASCO: The subject of the interview
is...
EMT HARRIS: Russell Harris, Battalion 31, Unit 31 Henry Tour 2.
Q. Russ, if you can, just start right from the beginning and just tell me everything that you saw, you felt, you did, to the best of your memory.
A. That particular morning, my unit that I was relieving, which was 31 Henry Tour 1, came in a little late. Ironically, they parked it at the top of the
h i l l , which they never do. They always park down here a t the garage. So by the time that we signed for our equipment and we were going out to the unit, my
partner, who was Mr. Kagenaar, he happened to look over out the gate and saw that the World Trade was on fire. When he initially told me that, I thought it was a
joke. I was opening up the side door and placing my equipment in because I was teching that day. I looked

R. HARRIS
over as well and saw that it was on fire.
Subsequently to that the dispatcher called me
maybe 30 seconds, 45 seconds later, and stated they wanted us to respond to a job. But the funny part was the job wasn't to the World Trade Center. It was at 350 Fifth Avenue, which i s the Empire State Building. So my partner was driving and he clearly stated to me he didn't know Manhattan that well. So during the course of going over the bridge, he really didn't know which direction to go to. So we got off going towards Park Row, which is right in front of City Hall.
Well, by the time we passed City Hall, there was a melee of traffic and my partner had to tie on brakes f o r people who were running madly coming down Park Row in front of J & R. So we actually got caught and had to make that left turn and got stuck right there. As we did that, a few unmarked RMPs also were stuck. One of them was a police officer I had known. His name is Claude. He's a detective. So as I'm sitting there talking to Claude trying to figure out where he was responding and what was going on, we happened to look back at the Trade and we saw the second plane hit, bam.
At the same time, about three city buses were

R. HARRIS
coming past. So we stopped the city buses and we cleared out all of the passengers and we asked the buses - -
Q. They were going downtown?
A. They were going towards the Brooklyn Bridge. We asked the buses to sit at the foot of the Brooklyn Bridge so in the event that there were any walking wounded, we could throw them on the buses and send them over the bridge. Well, as we were doing that, a Fire Lieutenant came and approached me and he asked what unit I was, and I told him, and he said all the Hazmat units are staging down at West and Vesey and he needed me to suit up.
So I explained to him that my partner wasn't Hazmat certified and I was unable to suit up. He said, don't worry. You go down there and somebody can help you suit up. I want you to go in the building. We've got a team there. We want to go in and we're doing search and rescue. So I said, well, I still can't do it. He said, look. After you do this, you don't really have a lot of patients because they're walking wounded. They're okay. I want you to just gather up, and he told me to go down to West and Vesey.
Well, at the same time, like I said, there

R. HARRIS
was a melee of people running. Smoke and debris was going everywhere. So my partner once again jumped behind the wheel, we got in, put on the lights and siren, and we were able t o make it down t o Church and Park. At Church and Park, the FBI told us, this is our staging, this was where we had to stop, we couldn't cross their barriers. They were setting up barriers.
At that time I saw everybody coming, Housing police, DEP, Corrections, court officers.
Q. Private.
A. Court officers. I looked back a t the building and I saw all this black smoke and
everything. Well, as soon as I stopped, my partner and myself, we opened the door, I got out my Hazmat equipment and I was starting to put it on the hood of the thing, of the vehicle. We had a walking wounded come and he was cut severely to his left arm and his left upper thigh.
Q. Civilian?
A. Civilian. He was lacerated bad. So we put him right in the bus. My partner started wrapping him up, you know, stabilizing the bleeding, took his pressure and everything, and at that time, FBI and a police Captain came and they asked me could I move my

R. HARRIS
vehicle up another block and that we had a temporary triage down at St. Peter's Church, which is at Church and Barclay. So I said all right. The patient was stable, vital signs were normal. We packed him up. So I told my partner, put him in the chair. Since I have the Hazmat mask and my helmet, I'll go down there and drop him off at the church in the chair and I'll come back. So I took the patient down to the church. Once again, a Fire Lieutenant came up to me. He saw me dropping off the patient and he advised me - -
Q. If I can interrupt you one second, who was at the triage center over there?
A. There was an FBI agent. That's the only one I saw outside. I never actually made it in the building. As I'm dropping off the patient, the FBI agent comes up to me and he says, oh, man, I just heard there's a third plane coming in. So I look at the patient, I'm at the church, and I said, well, look, there's nothing else I could do for you right now. You're here and you can hop upstairs and you can go in the church and that's where you could be safe.
As I said that and he turned around, all this black smoke started filling and I looked at the building and it started vibrating. So I was almost

R. HARRIS
next to the cemetery at that time. I was on the side of the church. I looked and all this debris just started exploding everywhere, and I turned around to run and I didn't see the patient anymore, and myself and the FBI guy just started going down that block.
Q. Were you going north?
A. Going north over towards Broadway.
Q. Right.
A. So I think that was Vesey I turned down at
the time because I was on the side of the church. I went up Vesey. When I got maybe halfway the block, I got knocked to the ground. My helmet got cracked. A piece of debris had hit my helmet. So I quickly got up, put the helmet back on, and I was still running. There was black smoke everywhere. I couldn't see anything. By the time I got to Broadway, I looked around the corner. Because debris was flying, I wanted to make sure I just didn't get knock unconscious, and I looked and I just saw parts of things just flying past me. So I stopped and took a deep breath and just ran across and I made a left on Broadway. By that time I made it to City Hall.
When I got to City Hall, people were - - they were just in chaos trying to climb the gates and the

R. HARRIS
fences and get in. Somebody noticed I was in the Fire Department EMS uniform, so they brought this lady up to me and I was out of breath. They said this lady is having chest pains. I said, well, I don't have an ambulance. I have a radio, but I can't communicate because we were having communication problems. I said, but if she wants, she can gladly follow me because I'm going to go where you can get some help. So I guess they understood that at that time everything was all chaotic and there was nothing I could do, and everybody just started following me and I told them stay away from the larger buildings and really going into City Hall wasn't a great thing. So we all started moving downward going towards the Supreme Court.
So by the time I got to the Municipal Building and I turned around to look to see if debris had stopped falling, the second building started coming down. By that time everybody took off again. So I looked to see and I had noticed at that time I didn't know where my partner was and the radio was chaotic. I couldn't go over the radio. My partner and myself just happen to have Nextel radios, but we couldn't communicate because the satellite went down. So I said, well, as soon as I get over here, down past the

R. HARRIS
courts, I'll probably be able to get a signal and I'll keep trying him.
At that time I ran into a young man named
Mr. Medina. He works for Long Island College Hospital, but that day he was working up at Beth Israel. When I reflected back after speaking to him, because he came up to me, he was out of breath, he had a working cell phone and I had the working part of a radio, and he had told me he lost his partner. I said you know what? While I was standing there, I noticed a Beth Israel bus and it got crushed, so maybe you should just keep coming with me. Then I noticed I was hopping and my leg was swelling up.
Q. The Beth Israel bus was where?
A. The Beth Israel bus was right back at the World Trade Center.
Q. About where you were parked?
A. Right around the corner. But they were closer in front of the building. So he decided he would stay with me. We kept trying to communicate. We called Citywide. They referred us to RCC. We called RCC and we gave them both of our shield numbers and told them we were all right and that I was trying to get into Brooklyn to get to the hospital because my leg

R. HARRIS
was just swelling up. He kept calling on his cell phone to try to update them to where we were so there wouldn't be a problem, and then he was telling them that we'd lost our partners.
By the time I got down to - - there's a park over there around Bowery, maybe a block over from the Manhattan Bridge. We sat down for a moment and debris was still coming down. It made it all the way down to that park. That's a little past Canal Street. We were able to catch our breath and get through and let them know I was fine, and he told me, if I'd be all right, he'd like to head back because he wanted to find his partner. So I told him, you go ahead, and he said, no, I can't leave you until I know you're all right.
So he walked me back towards the Manhattan Bridge and we noticed all these people going over the bridge and they were stopping the trucks and cars, and he saw private green sanitation truck and he went up to the guy and said can you take my partner in to Brooklyn so he can go to the hospital, and as he said that, some of the people overheard him and they came and they grabbed me and lifted me up and they put me in the back of the dumper in the back of the sanitation truck.
So as I'm coming over, I hear my partner come

R. HARRIS
over Citywide and he says my partner i s i n the
building. Because he heard them advise me t o get dressed and go in the building, he assumed when I went to drop off the patient they took me in the building,
so I was in the building. I heard him and they told him unauthorized transmission, only Chiefs and above can be on Citywide at this time. So I went back over the radio and told him I'm not crushed in the
building. I'm going over the bridge. So I'm all right and I'll talk to you later.
When I got halfway over the bridge, people started looking back because this thing starts smoking again. They thought something else was going to happen. They stopped all the traffic in the middle of the bridge. So I had decided I would get off this garbage truck and keep hopping until I got into Brooklyn. Once I got off, though, I noticed there was a firefighter coming across the bridge and he was holding his radio, and he was covered in soot and he was talking on his radio but he didn't have a battery on the radio.
So we both made it about the same time to Tillary Street and this lady was driving past and she stopped and she picked me up and she brought me to the

R. HARRIS
station here. I don't even know what happened to the firefighter. But once I got here, I made it the best way I could to the hospital because we didn't have any vehicles or anything. Actually, the battalion was closed off. They had it barricaded. So once they saw
me coming i n f u l l of soot and everything, they opened the gate for me and let me in, and then I hobbled down here and I was advised I had to get to the hospital, and I did. By then I had noticed I had a lot of beeps and a lot of phone calls because people found out, I guess, that I was all right from the World Trade.
When I got to the hospital, everything was fine. They diagnosed me, told me I had actually tore a hamstring. But they had looked a t it and they said,
you know what? It's not that bad. In light of what was going on, I figured the same thing. So I returned back to work. I didn't stay out at all because I knew there were a lot more people that were worse off than
myself.
So I came back to work, and by the time I got back there, I noticed both of my partners who were on vacation came in because they called in and they told them I was lost at the World Trade. One came from Long Island and one came from Bay Ridge and they both came

R. HARRIS
in and worked. They were sitting at the bridge in hopes that they saw me coming over the bridge, I guess.
I guess the biggest thing that I noticed was the lack of knowing what was going on, because I don't know what you could say would be worse, to actually stand there and see this? The first thing came in my mind was the movie Armageddon, and this was reality, with the black smoke 30 floors high, debris falling everywhere. Being on this side, not knowing what was going on that side, because there were people, when I was coming back over the bridge, going on motorcycles walking, people coming back this way trying to go to Manhattan, and I'm thinking to myself they must be crazy. But then there were people here that were more stressed because they couldn't get on the other side of the bridge.
So I didn't feel bad knowing that I had made it. A lot of people had guilt that I spoke to afterwards or they were just so devastated. Because I have never seen anything like that in 21 years of emergency work. But like I said, the biggest thing was to know that certain people had made it out, because everybody didn't have to make it, and that we were able

R. HARRIS
to just stand up and go through all of this and still come back the next day. So I guess the biggest thing I learned was, not the salaries, not the titles, because there were no bosses anymore at the scene. We were very chaotic and I guess from M training and just love of humanitarianship, which we all have, we all were able to bring together and make it through.
Q. Anything else you want to say, Russ?
A. No.
Q. I guess you said it all.
A. Other than I'm just happy I'm here and the
first thing I did was let the kids know I was all right. I was worried about debriefing everybody here, EMS and the Fire Department and the police, and we subsequently had a debriefing set up a few weeks later up at Cumberland Clinic.
Q. Thanks, Russ. A. Thank you.
MR. TAMBASCO: This interview will conclude at 1443 hours. If it wasn't mentioned, it was begun at 1423 hours.

F i l e No. 9110016
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER CRAIG MONAHAN
Interview Date: October 9, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins

C . MONAHAN
MR. CASTORINA: Today i s October 9th, 2001. I'm Ron Castorina. I'm at Engine 24, Ladder 5.
FIREFIGHTER MONAHAN: Craig Monahan, firefighter first grade, Ladder 5.
MR. CASTORINA: Present i s --
MR. McCOURT: Tom McCourt.
Q. Firefighter Monahan, can you t e l l us on
September 11th the events that took place that day, where you were working and going through a l l the details?
A. I was off duty. When I saw the second plane hit, I drove in to work from Staten Island. I had two other firefighters with me, Steven Altini and Joe Ray. Joe Ray and I both had our bunker gear with us because our last set of tours we had been detailed to other companies. We just so happened to have gone home with our bunker gear. Altini didn't have his.
So I rushed in, and I got here pretty quick. I parked in front of 90 West. I came through the tunnel, Battery Tunnel, parked in front of 90 West. Joe Ray and I geared up, put our gear on. We started heading north towards

C. MONAHAN
the towers. Altini, we left him at the rig. He started heading towards - - the command center at first. I think he ended up going back to 10 and 10 to get gear.
Anyhow, as we were walking through the streets, the West Side Highway was littered with body parts. You could identify a hand, small pieces, but obviously body parts. It had that odor. I've been through this before.
Q. A. Q. A.
A. Right. I left Staten Island at - - it wasn't my house; it was somewhere else. But I was on the south shore of Staten Island. I went into somebody's house, because they said that a plane hit the tower, and they were showing me on their TV.
As we turned it on and looked at it, the second plane hit. I knew right then that we
What time is this now, approximately? I have no idea.
Both towers were still up?
The two towers were both standing, and roaring.
Both planes had hit at this point when you were there?
they were Q.

C . MONAHAN
were losing companies and mine was probably going to be one of them. So I was going in, and the other two guys came with me.
We got there really fast. I drove on the shoulder or however it took to get here. I parked in front of 90 West, left the keys in my truck in case anybody needed to move it. The highway was kind of clear as far as vehicles. There was no traffic going through. It really wasn't congested with rigs at that spot.
I saw an ambulance. Dr. Kelly was getting on the ambulance with I don't know who. They were putting someone on the ambulance. That was before we got to the south pedestrian bridge, before Liberty Street. You could see airplane parts just littered across the street, across the highway.
Joe and I walked north. My goal was to find Ladder 5, my company's rig, and try to retrace their steps and find them and help them.
As we were walking past the towers, it was just unbelievable. You had to watch where you were walking. You didn't want to step on a scalp or a knee joint or something like that. There was

C . MONAHAN
just stuff everywhere.
We kept going north. We were just on
the edge of the sidewalk. We got in front of One World Trade Center, and I looked in. It looked like it was dark in there. I had to find 5's
rig. As we were going, I'm looking to see the rigs. I know we normally come down West Street.
I want to find my rig, get tools, and then maybe I can trace my way in from there.
It turns out we found Squad 18 under the north pedestrian or somewhere around there, and we got masks. We took masks off of there. We were looking for tools. All we got was a couple of masks.
Just north of that pedestrian bridge before Vesey, we found Ladder 5. It was parked in the middle of the highway, right up against the divider.
Q. Can you mark that on the map, where it was parked?
A. 5 Truck was right here.
Q. Just write "5 Truck."
A. That's where it was when we got there.
The tormenters weren't down.

C. MONAHAN
Q. Put "05" or something like that right next to it.
A. It was just parked. It was running. But the tormenters weren't down. It wasn't close enough to ladder the building.
As we're looking through the rig to try to get a Halligan or some tools, some
construction workers or I dont' know if they were civilians. They were employees I think somewhere down there, and they came running over to us saying there's a chief that needs to get down. There was a chief up on the mezzanine area right on the corner of Vesey and West.
I got in the truck. I pulled the tiller wheel in position so that all Joe had to do was sit up there and hold that wheel. I was going to back Ladder 5 close enough to this mezzanine area so that we could put up the aerial ladder to get him down and whoever else he had up there.
We did that. We backed it up. We got it close enough. We laddered the building. We put the aerial up, and that's it. Basically that's it.

C . MONAHAN
Q. Who was the chief there?
A. I didn't get his name.
Q. When you got there he was still there? A. He was still up there. I don't know if
he came down our aerial or what. That was right about when the first building came down. We put the aerial up.
Q. Could you put on there where you moved it to? Was it pretty close to where it was originally?
A. We moved it this way, right there.
Q. So basically just as you got it in place, that's when the building started coming down?
A. We got it in place, and then we got off the turntable. We were looking for tools again. Then a l l of a sudden you heard something, and it sounded like a harrier jet was landing right over top of us. Sure enough that second tower was
just coming straight down.
It was sick. I didn't think I was going to survive. It was really a sick sight and a really sick sound.
Q. What did you do?

C. MONAHAN
A. I said, "Let's go, Joe. We're going to dive under this engine there." There was an engine, I think it was at Vesey and West, I think it was right on the corner by the median, and we ran to it and we dove underneath it. We ran to it, ran around it and dove underneath it, because we figured we were going to get covered and that's our best chance.
Although debris fell around us, the main structure felt as if - - we were lucky. When it sounded like the explosion stopped, the steel hitting, when it all seemed to stop, this just like a fire storm of wind and material, a sandstorm kind of, just came and wailed by, really flew past us quick.
We huddled and stayed in place, and we threw our masks on. I knew which way was north, so we started walking north to try to get out of that storm. Eventually it cleared. It was probably20minutes. It'shardtosay,because it seems like to me that all of the time frames, how many minutes it took me to get there, I couldn't tell you. It's just like everything is just one. Your mind is playing games.

C . MONAHAN
Q. Most people have the same problem.
A. I would like to ask you guys questions, you know, the times of what happened, piece my life together.
Together Joe and I walked north on West Street, and we found an engine company, hooked it up to a hydrant, and we fired the stag to try to knock down some of the smoke just so that we could see. We did that for a short time.
Q. Was there a lot of burning debris around or anything?
A. Not that we were able to hit. But there was a parking lot I think on the corner of Vesey. I'm not sure. I think it was the corner of Vesey and West. I'm pretty sure, yeah. On the southwest corner of Vesey and West, there was a parking lot that was just roaring. Every car was transmitting to the next car. This was between the two collapses, I think.
I went over there. I took a saw off of some fire truck, some ladder company -- I don't know -- and took a metal-cutting blade. There were two fences between the highway and this parking lot. I cut the fences and, with an

C. MONAHAN
engine company, advanced the line and started knocking down those fires.
Once that line was in place, that engine was in control, they didn't need me. So that's when I started making my way back down to try to get inside the rubble.
Q. Did you get any direction from anybody at all or were you kind of like working on your own? Did you meet with any chiefs or lieutenants?
A. I saw chiefs. Yeah, I ran into chiefs, and they were all telling me to get lost: "You ought to just go north." But I didn't really want to do that because I know my guys are in there.
I left the saw there. I left that engine company. I figured they don't need me to put these cars out. I started walking back towards the towers. Then, bam, the next one started coming down. I just couldn't believe it.
Q. Where were you when the next one started coming down? How far away were you?
A. I think I was north of Vesey. I might have been closer to - - between Vesey and Barclay

C. MONAHAN
on West Street.
Q. You were by yourself at this point? A. I had Joe with me. We had lost each
other and then got back together, I think. Your mind plays games with you when you see this kind of shit. I know we were together when the second one fell also. After that one came down, we walked north again.
We met up with an engine company. They were just staying by a hydrant and spraying the water, trying to knock the smoke down. They were just going to stay there. We hung out with them for a minute.
Then, I don't know, that's when I lost Joe, after the two towers were down. I knew he wasn't in the collapse. Somehow in the dark we lost each other. I headed back down - - well, that's it. That's all you want to know, the two towers.
Q. Well, you can go on a little bit.
A. I came back down, and I went to five, and it was crushed with steel and all kinds of crap. I didn't see anybody in it or under it or around it. So I started making my way towards

C. MONAHAN
the pedestrian bridge, and I saw that the bridge had come down substantially. But there was about four feet - - there was a void underneath the pedestrian bridge where you could see the street. So I climbed under. I went under and went into the pile and started looking for guys and everything. There was just nothing to find. Everything was the same color.
That's all you guys want to know;
right?
Q. You covered it all. Anything else you
want to add?
A. That's it.
MR. CASTORINA: The time is 12:50. This concludes the interview.

File No. 9110017
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW LIEUTENANT GREGG HANSSON
Interview Date: October 9, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins

G . HANSON
MR. CASTORINA: This i s Ron Castorina, working with Thomas McCourt. We are a t Engine 24. The time now is 11:lO. The date i s October 9th, 2001.
Your name, sir?
LIEUTENANT HANSSON: Lieutenant Gregg Hansson.
MR. CASTORINA: Where are you assigned?
LIEUTENANT HANSSON: Engine 24. Q. Can you tell us what happened on
September l l t h ?
A. Sure. I believe the call came in
somewhere around 8:47, when the tower was first hit. I hopped on the rig. We had an extra man with us. It was myself, Firefighter Ottrando. John Ottrando was the chauffeur. We had a probationary trainee Firefighter Byrne, probationary Firefighter Sterling, Firefighter Claes, and Firefighter Billy.
I believe we were responding on second alarm, which was the initial second alarm. I'm not sure what due we were. We responded down Varick Street, which turns into West Broadway. We came down into Vesey, made a right onto Vesey

G . HANSON
and made a left onto West Street. We parked at the corner of West and Vesey, where my chauffeur was going t o hook up t o a standpipe.
Obviously we noticed smoke coming up from the north tower. Me and my four men proceeded with our rollups, the standpipe kit, up the stairs into the lobby of the One World Trade Center, which was the north tower building.
Q. Is that standard procedure or were you given direction by anybody there?
A. No, there were no directions at that time to do that. That seemed like standard procedure to me in a high-rise building.
At the time I did not know what had transpired, whether that was a plane or some type of explosion.
Upon entering the Trade Center, we went through the revolving doors but noticed that all the glass was out. So we could have gone right through the building.
At the northwest corner I believe i s the Port Authority command post. Deputy Chief Hayden was there already with his aide. There were several other units on the scene. It was

G. HANSON
understood that all the elevators were out at that time.
We waited for direction, at which time a battalion chief did come over. I don't know which battalion chief it was. He was speaking with Lieutenant Fischer Ladder 20. I was standing next to Lieutenant Fischer, and he asked what staircase he was going to use. I'm not sure what Lieutenant Fischer said, but I was then assigned to go up with Ladder 20 as a team.
I believe we followed a Port Authority police officer. We went past the elevator banks. You could see that they were all blown out. We went over to stairway A, which was the southeast corner area. There were many civilians self-evacuating at the time. We got the evacuees into a single file to come down, and we single-filed our way up.
We made our way up somewhere between the 15th and 20th floor, at which time we saw one woman, a black woman, with burns along her arms. In the same vicinity we were met with a woman who was having severe respiratory distress, which was likely caused by an asthma condition. She was

G . HANSON
with a civilian who stated he was from the 90th floor, and he had a large gash to his forehead. We took her off the stairway and into
the hall. I tried to call for an urgent, but at that time I realized that quite a number of maydays and urgents had already been given for many civilians and also for firefighters who were having trouble breathing already or having chest pains.
Q. What floor are you on at this time when you pulled her off?
A. I believe we were around 20.
Q. 20?
A. Somewhere in the vicinity of 20.
At that time we had her lying down.
She was breathing but having some trouble. We didn't have any oxygen with us, and there wasn't much we could do. I realized we weren't going to get any help, so we just monitored the situation.
I questioned the guy from the 90th floor, who said it was a plane. That's when I first realized that we had a plane up there. He said there was a fireball on the 90th floor and a lot of smoke on the 90th floor.

G. HANSON
He got to a room where there was about eight people, and he said the eight people did eventually get out. He stated to me that he believed everyone from the 90th floor had gotten out.
She started to feel better, and she said she was ready to descend again.
Q. What were the conditions in the stairway?
A. The conditions in the stairway were absolutely clear. There was no smoke whatsoever. Occasionally on the hallways you could see a light haze, but that wasn't on every - - some were totally clear. Some had a very light haze. But the stairways were totally clear. All the civilians looked fine except for the ones I just indicated.
So we left that civilian from the 90th floor, that gentleman, he assisted the woman down. We continued our way up. I believe Ladder 20 had gotten off with us on that floor and were taking a rest.
We continued up until I believe the 27th floor. My men started to become pretty

G . HANSON
exhausted at that point. Again we took another rest at the 27th floor with Ladder 20. There was a couple civilians with a woman in a wheelchair.
At that time I ordered Firefighter Billy to stay with her and if he got any assistance from any units on the way up that he could descend with her. But at that point I said for him to just stand fast.
I don't know how long we were there
for, maybe five minutes. Then we continued our way up again, eventually reaching the 35th floor.
Again, we were s t i l l with Ladder 20. On the 35th floor I spotted Engine 33, and I spotted Ladder
5. There was also a battalion chief, which I'm not positive but one of my members has indicated he believed he was the battalion chief from Battalion 11.
We also had a couple EMS workers up there. I did see one firefighter lying in the hallway in the elevator area, lying on his back. He was being administered oxygen. Everybody else that I did speak to indicated that they were doing okay.
Basically we were taking water, ice tea

G. HANSON
or whatever, and the battalion was setting up a staging area at that point. So again we were taking another break.
I then spoke with the Engine 33 officer, which was Lieutenant Pfeifer. We were trying to formulate a plan with the battalion chief as to how we were going to get up somewhere around the 90th floor, being that we were already exhausted at this point.
I don't know if that's important or not, but our idea was to take only four rollups out of the eight men we had instead of the eight rollups. My estimate is that we might have been on that floor between five and ten minutes. I would say at least five minutes.
I was in the vicinity of the battalion chief, who was on the command channel, when I heard a mayday given over the command channel to evacuate the building. He started to tell everyone to evacuate, as I did also. I saw all the units get up. Everybody got their gear. Everybody started for the staircases to evacuate.
Ladder 5 I know for a fact had been going down stairway B, which was in the elevator

G. HANSON
bank in the middle of the building. Engine 33 - - I'm not positive but I believe they went to stairway C, which I believe was the southwest corner. I went back to my men with Ladder 20 to stairway A.
Still in the hallway, we heard a big shakeinthebuilding. It'smybeliefthatwas the tower two coming down. I'm not positive, but you could definitely feel an incredible shake.
Q. Did you hear any explosion or anything from the first?
A. I didn't. Some people stated to me that there was at that time, but I can't recall actually hearing.
Q. You were at the 35th floor - -
A. We were at the 35th floor.
Q. - - when you decided to evacuate and got the mayday.
A. Right.
Some people have indicated that that
was the 37th floor, but I believe it was the 35th.
Q. Do you know what time?
A. I have no idea what time frame that

G. HANSON
was. But if in fact that was the tower coming down, it was 10:06.
At this point I do not know that the second tower was hit by a plane, nor do I know that that's the second tower being hit. I did hear on my way up transmissions from Ladder 3, which was Captain Brown. I did hear him communicating with somebody. I assume it was with the command post or some chief. I have no idea.
Q. Where was Captain Brown?
A. I'm not sure where Captain Brown was. I had assumed he was in the first building, because they were from Ladder 3, and I assume they would have been coming down on the initial alarm to the first. I'm sure you will find out in your interviews. I've heard and I thought he might have been as high as in the 60s, but I don't think that's correct. I did hear after that that he might have been in the 40s of tower one.
I thought he gave a mayday, and I thought he stated that there was an interior collapse. But again I'm not positive of that.

G . HANSON
On the way down I could hear them calling for Ladder 3. Then they would call specifically for Pat Brown. There was no response from Ladder 3 whatsoever from that point.
The chief had directed us, after this big loud shaking, to get in the stairways. At that time I was with Lieutenant Fischer and my men. I believe two of his men had gone up,
before this shake, had gone up. He was obviously upset a t them for going up. He was screaming a t them for them to get back down. Then he went up to go get them. At that time I ordered my men,
"Let's get out." So we started to get out.
I lost contact with Firefighter Claes at that time. I thought he was ahead of me. I
found out later that he had gotten out of the building much sooner than we did.
We got down to 27, where I went to pick up Firefighter Billy that I had left off there.
Q. He was still there?
A. He was still there with the woman in the wheelchair.
At that time Firefighter Byrne had

G . HANSON
indicated to me that he left his mask up on the 35th floor. So I ordered him to leave the building, to stop for no one, being that he had no mask.
So now I was with Firefighter Sterling and Firefighter Billy. A couple people,
civilians, indicated to me that there was an elevator that was working at this time. But I had already gotten transmissions over the air that some elevators had already crashed down to the first floor. I told them no one is getting in an elevator.
There was another officer there. Firefighter Billy indicated to me that he might have been the captain of Engine 21. We discussed how to remove the woman, and I believe he said to me that he's going to take her down with his company. They went t o stairway B. I said,
"Okay, Rich, come with me and l e t ' s continue on down stairway A." We went down stairway A.
We got down to the third floor, and the third floor was partially blocked by some sheetrock. We started to move that when a firefighter from Squad 18 -- I believe his name

G . HANSON
i s Kelly. He i s alive. I've seen him since. He said to me that you can't get down that
staircase, there's no exit that way, and he needed help with a civilian.
There was on that floor now -- on this particular floor all the lights were out. We had a rather large gentleman, I would say maybe 300 pounds or so, a civilian, who was for some reason incapable of walking. He was on the ground. We assisted him in trying to remove this guy. We made our way to stairway C, I believe.
We were having quite a difficult time trying to remove this guy. There were a couple Port Authority police officers. They might have been ESU. I have no idea. We finally managed with great difficulty to get this guy down to the first floor, and we were directed by Port Authority police officers to the lobby area of the north side of the Trade Center, which was a couple of doors right in the middle.
We had two officers there who said, "Hold up. There's people jumping out of the
building and there's a lot of debris coming down." They were actually looking up outside the

G . HANSON
building when we were still in the lobby. They said it was okay to go, and we started to bring this guy across.
At that time we were with I believe the officer of Engine 15, which was Lieutenant Foder. I believe he had at least two men with him. It was myself, my two men, the Squad 18 guy, and I believe I saw a guy from Rescue 5. I think his name was Firefighter Spade, who made it also. There were at least four police officers.
We started to go across. There was a l i t t l e overhang there for the Customs building. We made it across to that, under that overhang. The civilian just kept on tripping over debris. There was debris everywhere.
Q. What was the condition? It was still heavy smoke?
A. You had a visibility of about 10 to 15 feet, I figure. To me it looked like a whiteout. There was a lot of debris on the ground. It seems to me it might have been the sheeting of the Trade Center. A lot of that you saw. This guy kept on tripping over it.
I went ahead of I believe Lieutenant

G. HANSON
Foder and Firefighter Kelly from Squad 18. At that point we're assisting the civilian, trying to hold him up. At that point I got rid of my mask. We were outside the building. We were all pretty exhausted by that point too. I went ahead of them to remove debris. We were at this point right here. I don't know if you can see that.
Q. Okay.
A. That's basically where we were. Then a large explosion took place. In my estimation that was the tower coming down, but at that time I did not know what that was. I thought some type of bomb had gone off.
I was, I believe, ahead of the rest of the firefighters and officers there. I made it to the corner, and I took about four running steps this way when you could feel the rush of the wind coming at you. I believed that that was a huge fireball coming at the time.
I then hit the deck into the side of the building and basically waited it out. We were all hit with debris. At that point it was a total blackout. You couldn't see anything. All this glass already had been taken out.

G . HANSON
I found out that those guys there that were behind me had jumped i n t o World Trade Center six when this came down. I was in the courtyard over here. I got hit by a lot of debris at that point, but I guess within seconds or a minute it was over.
I was still okay. I got myself up. I had no mask at the time. All I had was my flashlight. There was dead silence. You couldn't hear anybody. No transmissions over the radio. There were craters all over the place.
You were in the middle of this cloud that was fairly suffocating, so I had no idea how much longer I was going to be able to stay in there.
I wound up crawling for a ways, and I finally saw a flashlight. I don't know i f there's a staircase in here, but I saw a flashlight and I saw someone calling, "This is the way out. This is the way out." I made my way to that staircase, got myself out, and I don't know where I came out. I think I might have come out this way and over to Church Street.
At that point I saw Firefighter Byrne when I got out into the street. There was nobody

G . HANSON
else around for blocks. I could hear Firefighter Billy calling a mayday at that point. I tried to respond to him over the radio and tried to direct him out. He didn't respond again to me.
I then looked for help to get a mask,
to get a search rope of some sort to try to go back in there. There was nobody around. We went several blocks, I don't know how far, when I finally found Ladder 164's rig.
All my maydays went unanswered. I got on Ladder 164's rig. I called the dispatcher, gave the dispatcher the mayday, told them that both myself and Byrne were out of the building and I was missing the rest of my company. I said I don't know where the command post is, but there i s nobody around.
Q. Byrne was with you the whole time?
A. From that point. On the 27th floor I had told Byrne to leave.
Q. Right. You hooked up with --
A. I hooked up with him again at this point.
Q. Who was the one with the flashlight that you saw think you saw leading you out?

G. HANSON
A. That was a police officer. It could have been the Port Authority or it could have been ESU.
Q. When you were outside you were by yourself?
A. On the initial collapse?
Q. When you were outside. When you came around.
A. I was by myself at that point. Q. And then you picked up Byrne? A. On the street somewhere.
We walked several blocks, but then we found an ambulance and we saw Safety Chief King in the ambulance. I started to ask him what happened. That's when he told me both towers are down. I didn't even know that had happened, but that's what it was.
Eventually we made our over to Engine 7, Ladder 1's quarters. A triage area had just started to be set up. There was a doctor there, and she took a look at me. She said, "Your throat's extremely red. We have to get you to a hospital."
I called the dispatcher again from the

G. HANSON
department phone there, indicated again where I was. They provided no other information to me.
Soon after that then an ambulance came, they picked me up and they transported me to Forest Hills, where I stayed until about 4:00, when I finally got a ride back to the city.
I made my way back to quarters here.
Sometime around
          Byrne
eventually - -
Q. Byrne A. What? Q. Byrne A. Byrne
midnight I went back down. stayed at Engine 7. We all
didn't go to the hospital?
didn't go to the hospital?
didn't go to the hospital at that
time .
Q. You decided respiratory difficulties,
no injuries?
A. Yeah, as it turned out. I mean, other
than minor scrapes and stuff, I was all right. That's pretty much the most I can
remember.
Q. The rest of the company, what - -
A. The rest of my company turned out to be
okay. You can speak to Marcel in a few minutes.

G. HANSON
From what he told me, he had gotten out all the way to the rig, Engine 24's rig again, and he operated all day from there. He did receive burns to his back area when he had taken off his coat. Then all this stuff started to happen.
Ottrando was the chauffeur. All he stated to me was that when they started coming down, the big cloud, he just started running north, and I believe he operated most of the day.
Firefighter Billy and Sterling got themselves out also from the area that I also had been in, and Billy was eventually taken to Downtown Hospital. Somewhere around 4 p.m. I started to find out that they were okay, but that was - - I'm sure you guys know there wasn't much information. There was nobody around.
Q. Yeah, right.
A. The only other thing I can remember that I might have left out is on the 35th floor there were a couple civilians. I believe there was a civilian in a wheelchair on the 35th floor at that staging area. When we started to evacuate, I believe she was going down the B staircase where Ladder 5 was. It's speculation

G . HANSON
at this point, but I believe they were assisting her.
We did find most of those members from Ladder 5 two days later in a staircase with two civilians.
I did leave another thing out. After the 27th floor, we were coming down. I got stopped again around 17. At the 17th floor, a firefighter came into the staircase and said, "I need some help with a room full of civilians."
As it turned out, I came out of the A staircase, I went down to that room. I left my men there. I went down there. There was it looked to me, about 15 firefighters and about maybe 10 civilians in this room on the --
Q. 17th floor.
A. Southwest side. I kind of stated generally that we have to evacuate the building, "Let's go." I was approached by someone -- and I saw Pfeifer there from 33 Engine. I also saw someone from Rescue 3. I ' m not sure i f he was the officer or not. I thought he was the
officer, but he might not have been.
He took me aside. He took out a window

G. HANSON 22
on that floor, showed me West Street, and that's when I saw the damage done on West Street. I could still see several rigs, but you could see all the debris also.
I again said, "I think we've got to get out." He said, "I'm not sure we can
ourselves
get out."
generally
out." I did see some people go to the C staircase. I went back and got my men at the A staircase and descended down. Then eventually I hit the third floor, where I teamed up with that guy from Squad 18.
I think that was it.
MR. CASTORINA: The time now is 11:37.
This concludes the interview of Lieutenant Hansson at Engine 24.
I said, "We've got to try." I again said, "Let's go, everyone, let's get

F i l e No. 9110018
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER MARCEL CLAES
Interview Date: October 9, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick

MR. CASTORINA: The date is October 9, 2001. The time is 11:47. I'm Ron Castorina. I'm at Engine 24, interviewing - - your name, sir?
FIREFIGHTER CLAES: Marcel Claes, firefighter 1st Grade, Engine 24.
MR. CASTORINA: And your name.
MR. MC COURT: Also present is Tom McCourt. Q. And on September 11, 2001, can you tell he
what your assignment was that day?
A. My original assignment was in Ladder 5. I
had a mutual with Paul Keating, but the engine was short that day, so they - - it was common practice to go back into the engine, being I'm an engine man.
So the call came in, and we got on the rig. We responded going south on Varick Street, and I said to the nozzle man when I saw the damage, "That's got to be an explosion," not realizing that it was hit by a plane.
We pulled up to - - I believe we went down Canal Street and went along West Street south, and we ended up parked on West and Vesey Street. There was a sprinkler system, a siamese for the sprinkler right there.
We went to the lobby of 1 World Trade, and

Claes
when we got in there, we saw a lot of damage in the lobby around the elevator banks, and we found -- I found out that it was hit by a plane, thinking it was an accident.
So we proceeded up with other engine companies and truck companies in Stairwell A. After a dozen floors or so, we started to take breaks every four floors. We didn't realize it was hit by -- we didn't realize 2 World Trade was hit by an airplane, so we kept going up. It was single file, civilians going down and firemen going up.
The civilians were orderly and blessing us and helping the injured down. I checked the standpipe a few times on the way up. We made it up to the -- I believe the 35th story. We were taking a breather. I was on my knees, catching my breath, and we were discussing -- we were going to hook up with another engine company to make it up there -- easier to get up there. We were going to have some guys just take cylinders and the other guys take hoses, but we felt this rumble and this noise, like a train was going through your living room. Felt like an earthquake.
A few minutes later, a chief -- someone told me he believed it was 11battalion -- said to drop

Claes
everything and get out, get out. He didn't say why. He just said, "Drop everything and get out." Probably said it a couple of times.
So basically, that's what guys did. I went back and got my coat, my cylinder and my standpipe kit, and I was the last one to go down from my company, but they ended up - - we got separated because I found out later that one of our - - Richard Billy was on the 27th story in the hallway with a woman in, I believe, a wheelchair, and the rest of the company went in to get him.
I continued down, not realizing that they stopped at the 27th Floor. I made my way down to around the 10th Floor. Someone said go to Stairway B, so I went down. I went to B. I saw Faust with Battalion 8. I asked him did he see anybody from 24 engine. He said no. I continued down.
I made it to the lobby. I did see a woman walking real slow. I walked behind them. She was being helped. I don't remember if it was a fireman or EMT. I got - - I just wanted to get some fresh air, so I went around them. I made it to the lobby.
I saw building employees running around. There was a lot of debris in the lobby. I went out the

Claes
same way I came in. That was on the northwest corner of tower -- 1World Trade.
Q. On the map on there?
A. I went out a window that was taken out, because I knew my engine was parked on that side. I made it out to the -- I saw a man in the courtyard. He was waving me out, like come on out, get out of there.
I didn't look up. I just went out to the street.
When I got out to the street, I looked up, not believing what I was looking at. I saw three people jump out of the building, and it started to collapse, and I took off north on West Street. I made it behind an engine. I was only carrying my coat. I had time to put it over my head. I was at the back step with another fireman. I don't know who it was.
Finally when the dust cleared, I started walking north on West Street for a couple of blocks. I didn't see the rest of my company. I saw some members from Ladder 8, and I decided t o go back t o the engine, because it was still running when I went out the first time, so when I went back to Engine 24, which was parked on the Vesey and West, it was s t i l l running, but the supply line was severed and there was a lot of dust and debris on the ground.

Claes
It was -- I believe Engine 239 was a couple of blocks north on West Street, who were originally supplying 24 engine. They --
Q. Can you mark on the map where you believe Engine 239 was?
A. I'm only guessing that they were up the block.
Q. Where was the chauffeur from 24? He was still at the rig or he --
A. I didn't see the chauffeur. I don't know what happened t o anybody. That's why I went back t o the engine, hoping that I'd find somebody from my company.
I got no response on the radio. I found out later they went to the hospital, and I didn't -- I didn't know where the chauffeur was, so I went back to 24 engine. I went back to the engine. It was still running, s t i l l hooked up t o the Siamese.
Firemen were taking hand lines off, so I had to boost the tank. They were looking for people, and they needed precautionary lines. Actually, it was over here, 24 engine. I stayed with the engine, 239. I believe -- yeah, it was an officer, I think, from 239, and his men that were -- he supplied me -- it took

Claes
awhile, but we found the first lengths. At one point, we were putting out ground fire with the first lengths.
There wasn't much pressure, because when I did get resupplied finally, I hooked up to a tower ladder, I believe 12, that was parked or maybe they moved it, Ladder 12. They operated up Vesey Street because a lot of rubble over there and ground fire, you know, going over here.
It was like ground fire and rubble that was on fire, so I just stayed right at the engine hoping somebody would show up from the company, a t least they'd find me, but I just felt I had to do something, so I -- you know, I made sure that those hand lines and -- you know, I was -- I felt I was being useful just by manning the pumps.
At one point, a rescue company came by, and they walked into the -- you know, this is after the collapses. I they walked in. I guess they did their thing. I guess they were -- actually I don't know what they were doing. They must have got off. You know, they were off that day and went back to the company to gear up and made it there on their own.
Q. How was your breathing with a l l the dust and

Claes
the debris?
A. Oh, at the -- after the collapse, I was
gagging behind the engine, and there was -- my throat was caked up with this stuff. I almost threw up. Couldn't see the hand in front of my face.
Eventually the dust cleared. That's -- and after that, I picked up my cylinder and my coat and went up West Street, north on West Street, but then I came back after my eyes were all itchy.
Q. Smoke got cleared a little bit when you went back?
A. Yeah. After the dust cleared, I went back and operated the engine. I wasn't in any condition to climb through the rubble, but I felt, you know, I was being useful a t manning the engine.
Q. Right.
A. Because of the ground fire. They ended up taking a multiversile tower ladder and two hand lines. I believe the hand lines were mostly because there was guys operating, searching over the terrace.
Let me see. There is like a terrace there and then the building. This building ended up -- there was a lot of rubble over here, of course. I guess that's between 8 World Trade and 1World Trade that was

Claes
on fire. This building - - I was watching the fire, started in this corner.
Q. Which building was that?
A. 8 World Trade, U.S. Customs building, and I guess about six stories, and it was on the 5th Floor, and then it just went from south to north in the course of the day. All morning I was watching 7 World Trade burn, which we couldn't do anything about because it was so much chaos looking for missing members.
Q. Did you end up going to the hospital or were you injured in any way or - -
A. Yeah. When I was running, some hot stuff went down by back, because I didn't have time to put my coat back on, and I had some - - well, I guess between first and second degree burns on my back, ended up in the crack of my ass, and that's where the worst - - the
worst ones turned out to be, because myself, and I couldn't - - it finally
Q. Went down to your back?
A. Yeah, in my bunker pants. Q. Did you get any first-aid? A. I did. About four o'clock
got some first-aid by some EMTs that
think on Vesey - - yeah, at the intersection of Vesey
I was covering settled.
- - no, actually, I
were parked, I

Claes
and West I got some first-aid.
Q. This was how much after?
A. A few hours afterwards. A few hours
afterwards, because I was going t o get t o some water. I ran out of cigarettes. I was hoping to grub a cigarette.
Q. I'm with you.
A. All right. So I did get some first-aid earlier in the day, but finally after 3:30, quarter to four, I was feeling nauseous, and I wasn't sure why.
I thought maybe the burns were affecting me somehow, so I ended up going to the triage at Stuyvesant High School, and I found -- I was looking for the command post, and there were a lot of firemen, I guess who came after the fact.
I got to triage. They put some cream on my burns and flushed out my eyes for the first time, and I
-- like my eyes -- I mean, I had great glasses to
read, but I used to be able to read the paper with good light, but I couldn't even do that for a couple of weeks. They finally got better.
And then I sat around. I found out the rest of the guys were okay. They went to the hospital. I saw the chauffeur there. That was a t Stuyvesant High

Claes
School. Well, actually it was on West Street right outside Stuyvesant High School. They thought - - they were relieved, because they thought I was missing.
I did see members that came after the fact that were - - you know, but they weren't from the company. They came from home, but I guess they stayed looking for members that were missing and never went back to where the triage was by Stuyvesant High School.
What else? So by six o'clock I decided let me go home. I called my wife finally, because the phones weren't working around ground zero, so I found someone with a phone at four o'clock. I called home, and she was relieved, and I sat around there to rest, and I walked to the firehouse, and I made it to Canal Street, and I saw another fireman, a messenger I believe he was, and he drove me to the firehouse, and I took a shower and talked to the guys for awhile, and I was hoping they would find guys from Ladder 8 - - Ladder 5, rather, and that's that.
The next day I came back just to see what was going on. I was in no condition to go back there. And I worked Thursday. I was - - it was 24 on, 24 off. So I came in Thursday morning, and we didn't even have a

Claes
fire truck until earlier that afternoon.
The shops did a great job fixing it up. It
was missing gauges, the gauges on the pump, and the windshield was broken, and cabinet doors were bent. It was missing a lot of hose and tools. So we got it back that afternoon. We cleaned it up Thursday afternoon.
I believe they took it to the Sanitation Department, and they power washed it, and we got it back here. We had to hose the inside out, and we stocked it with whatever we had in the tool shed, and we went back in service around six o'clock that night.
We didn't have many runs, but I think that was the only operating engine covering lower Manhattan, except for the one that was operating within the collapse zone, the ground zero.
We did go back Thursday night. Was it Thursday? I think yeah, we did go back. It was our turn to good back to ground zero, and all I did was fill buckets with dust and debris. It rained that night, so we went back to the - - after a number of hours, we went back to the firehouse.
I was up all night, and Friday morning I went to the medical office, and they gave me a prescription for antibiotics, told me to keep - - it was starting to

Claes
get infected, my burns, so they told me - - they put me light duty.
So Saturday I came back to the firehouse, and I was due to work at my light-duty position at Rac 5 Sunday morning. I went home - - when I got home Monday morning, we started with wakes and funerals all that week, because they did recover guys from Ladder 5, so we were off.
Basically, I didn't come back to the firehouse until the following week. The following week after Greg Sausito's memorial Mass, and then we were on - - when I was scheduled to come back to work. They went back to the regular schedule.
And that's about it.
MR. CASTORINA: The time concludes this interview is 12:05.

File No. 9110019
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW LIEUTENANT BRIAN BECKER
Interview Date: October 9, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick

MR. MURAD: The date is October 9, 2001. The time is 12 o'clock, 1200 hours, and this is Murray Murad the New York City Fire Department.
MR. CUNDARI: George Cundari.
MR. MURAD: I'm conducting an interview with the following lieutenant.
THE WITNESS: Brian Becker, Engine
22.
MR. MURAD: The New York City Fire
Department. We are currently at Engine Ladder - -
THEWITNESS: 11.
28, Group
28,
MR. MURAD: - - 11, regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
Presently there is no one else in the interview room, and we will be conducting the interview with Lieutenant Becker.
Q. Lieutenant, would you like to give the story
of what - - your accounts of what took place on that tragic day.
A. Okay.
Q. And your role.
A. I had relieved the lieutenant from the night
tour. He had left - - I was in the kitchen with the

B . BECKER
other firemen. I was standing up with a cup of coffee, and I heard a loud explosion. It sounded like it was coming from the back of the firehouse. I thought it was north of the firehouse.
I put down my coffee, and I said t o the guys, "I think we're going to work. That was an explosion." So walking out to the apparatus, we heard the voice alarm came over and said there was an explosion in the
World Trade Center. So we were putting on our boots, getting ready. The engine was dispatched on the box. The time was 8:48.
I knew right away. I felt right away it
was -- I remembered thinking they got us this time, because I heard the explosion, so I knew it was a large explosion, and the World Trade Center, so I figured we were on route to a big disaster.
There was never a doubt in my mind, as I recall, that it was anything other than a terrorist attack.
We went east on Houston Street to the FDR, down the FDR Drive, and by the time we were approaching the Brooklyn Bridge, we could see the tower. We could see fire lapping out of the tower. Seemed like all four sides.

B . BECKER
I guess we could see two or three sides from the FDR Drive and could see fire lapping out of multiple floors from about three quarters of the way up the building.
We made our way around the Battery, plowing through traffic, and made our way up West Street past the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel. We saw -- on arrival, we saw a lot of debris in the street on West Street. I could see what seemed to be -- coming down the FDR, I could see both towers, but I could see -- I only saw the fire in the north tower. The other one hadn't been struck. I'm sure of that.
We saw a lot of debris in the street as we came up, and I was concerned. I could see what seemed to be remains of bodies in the street. I told the chauffeur to stay as far to the left as he could, because I didn't want to get hit with a body in the cab and die right there. I remember thinking that.
We drove just past One World Trade Center, and we stopped under the pedestrian overpass, just north of the -- we got in a sheltered spot. We dismounted the apparatus. I'd say that was right here. We stopped.
Q. This i s where the apparatus was, on West

B. BECKER
Street?
A. Right, I would say we stopped just about
underneath there. Underneath - - if that's a pedestrian walk - -
Q. Right.
A. - - we stopped the apparatus under there just to stay out of shelter, because I figured there were jumpers, and I figured it was a very dangerous place to stop, so we stopped under the overpass.
We got off the rig. I asked the chauffeur, "Where are you headed?" He said - - whatever he said, he ended up hooking up on Barclay and West Broadway. That's just north of 7 World Trade Center, which it all interconnected, we think. You know, I'm pretty sure. Or maybe he was on Vesey. I'm not - -
Q. Between Barclay and Vesey he parked?
A. Okay.
Q. He parked there.
A. As we were heading into the building, one of
the guys said - - we were very excited and very pumped up, and it was a terrible situation. It was like a battlefield. It wasn't - - we kept it together, but we were - - as we were heading in, one of the guys, I forgetwho,said,"Iforgotmymask." Sowewere

B. BECKER
delayed. I said, "well, you got to get your mask. We'll wait for you here under the overpass."
So we probably waited about 30 seconds or a minute or so. I would say 30 seconds to a minute while he ran to the rig, which was still, I guess, blocked by traffic and pulled his mask off, so we stayed as a unit. That delayed us for a few seconds.
All these things contributed, I think, to our survival. That's why I mentioned that, because, you know, every little - - every second made a difference.
Q. At that time, the rig was still on West Street and - -
A. Well,Iguessitwaslikeafew-- afew-- maybe - - you know, there was traffic and a lot of - -
you know, it was rush hour still, so he hadn't made the corner. He hadn't - - anything like that, so I would say 30 seconds to a minute.
So I grouped with the other firefighters under the overpass, and we gave him riding positions, and I gave the senior man the nozzle and things, and then when the other guy came back, we said, "Okay, let's make it a direct route right into the - - let's move fast."
So we moved into 1 World Trade Center from

B . BECKER
that northern pedestrian overpass, from underneath
that, so we took the shortest route, and I think we
just went in a window. I think the glass was blown out there.
I remember getting the impression that the elevators were blown out, and I kind of can verify that, because a chief grabbed me by the shoulder, and he said, "Engine 28, you're teaming up with Engine 4 and just take four roll-ups and head up."
I don't know who the chief was. There was no command. It was chaos in the lobby.
Q. Can I just interrupt?
Was there any communication at that point
from the time you got off the rig and you waited for
the other seconds?
there any A.
firefighter to get his gear and the 30
Was there any radio transmissions or was direction?
Nothing that I recall. Honestly, nothing
directed to us for certain, and we didn't direct anything. I didn't speak with them, because I knew I bounced the first division for years, and I responded to the World Trade Center several times, so I knew the procedure, you know.

B . BECKER
Even though this wasn't typical at all, I was still going on that I knew I was going to report into the lobby command post. I knew where it was.
So we got into the -- like I was saying, when the chief grabbed me by the shoulders, he said, "Take four roll-ups only between the two companies. Team up with Engine 4 and start your way up," and I remember specifically asking him how are we going up, and I remember thinking that it was a stupid question,
because I knew the elevators were blown out, but I just asked it anyway, just i n case he knew something I didn't know, and he said, "You're walking."
I have an impression of smoke around the elevators, and bent doors, and it was pretty -- the lobby was pretty devastated. I don't remember who that chief was.
So we teamed up with Engine 4. I knew the officer, Joe Farrelly, so we were talking, making small talk and making our way up, and about two or three levels up, there were a lot of civilians coming down, and it was very -- pushing through them, so heavy traffic against us, and I saw a building personnel person, and I said, "Is there a better staircase?" And he goes, "Yes, there is. I'll take you to another

B. BECKER
one." He took us up maybe one or two more levels, either to the 3rd or 4th Floor, and I think we switched either from C to B or B to C. I don't really remember the letters any more.
We made our way down the hallway on the 3rd or 4th Floor, both units, and by then I think there was a chief with us, and as I recall, he had an 11 on his helmet, so I presume since then it was not the division so I presume it was chief from the 11th Battalion, and so we pretty much then traveled up as a unit, 4 Engine, Engine 28 and this chief.
There was also - - I remember a fireman or two from Ladder 8, and about the 10th Floor or so, the chief made a decision to - - the new stairway we were in had a lot of people coming down, and the chief made a decision that we were going to pause and get these people to another stairway and direct them to another stairway to try to vacate that stairway as best we could for us to go up and use it as an attack
stairway.
So I would guess we were something like on the 10th Floor or something. So we probably spent a couple of minutes directing civilians to another stairway. They were all very cooperative, and there

B. BECKER
was no panic to speak of, and I remember reassuring of the civilians saying, "You're all right now. Just continue now. You are safe now."
I asked people occasionally has anybody been coming from a fire, you know, a floor where they have seen fire or smoke, just trying to determine how far up we had to go. So I had the impression we were heading for Floor No. 60, but it actually would have been higher.
So the firemen were getting pretty tired by then, and they wanted to take little breaks every few floors, so our progress was pretty slow. We weren't aware of any - - of the other plane. We heard rumors that another plane was on route, and one of the guys, Lieu, "Did you hear that? There's another plane on route, another one."
So we kind of knew somehow that a plane had hit. We knew it was a terrorist attack. Just - - I don't know - - accumulated knowledge along the way, I guess, from civilians talking or a little handy-talkie chatter, but by then, I presume, it was already 9:30 or something.
Q. You never heard the second plane? A. We never heard the second plane.

B. BECKER
Q. Just to verify, you were in the first tower that was struck, which was in the north tower?
A. Yes.
Q. Andyouhad --
A. World Trade Center No. 1.
Q. Andyouhad --
A. So I would say within - - we were probably in
there like at probably 9:04, 9:05 or something like that, so I would say just as we were in the stairway heading up, the other plane probably hit the other tower. I would say - - but we weren't aware of that. We had very poor handy-talkie communications. We didn't hear much of anything. There must have been Maydays galore out in the street. We didn't hear any of them. I didn't. The chief didn't apparently either.
I remember it took a long time. A couple of the firemen were having a tough time keep going. We stayed as a unit, all of us still, all - - both companies, the chief, and by the time - - I remember we got - - had to go in to Floor No. 28. I said, "Come on, guys, we are at 28. Come on, next stop is 28th
Floor." So that's accurate in my mind.
After that, I think we made another push

B. BECKER
after that, but that i s not as accurate in my mind, that I'd say we were in the 30th or 31st, 32nd Floor, or something like that, and a few of the guys were lying wiped out on the floor, you know, taking a break with their masks off and lying in the hallway when there was a very loud roaring sound and a very loud explosion, and the -- it felt like there was an explosion above us, and I had a momentary concern that our building was collapsing.
Looking up, guys were diving into the stairway, and then it was like -- everybody was very scared by then. I ' m talking the firemen, and then we were very worried about what was going on. We didn't know, but apparently that was the other building falling. I think we were that far along.
So we regrouped in the stairway for a couple of minutes, and I told the guys, "All right, hang on. Let's see what's going on." I still wanted to go up and fight the fire. The chief was very good. He said, "All right, everybody calm down."
A couple of firemen said, "Did you feel that rush of air?" and things like that, and how it was going on. It really felt like our building was coming down, and then the chief, who was out of sight for a

B. BECKER
few minutes, then came running up the stairs, and that's my impression, and he was saying - - "All right--" everybody was very adamant and loud, and he said, "Everybody, we are - - all Fire Department personnel are out of the building. We are getting
out. Leave all your equipment," he was yelling, "Leave your equipment, and just get up and go, go, go," like that.
So I presume that he got the word that the other building had fallen.
Q.
A. that.
Q.
A. was the
What floor were you guys on?
I would say 30th or 31st, something like
That's when the chief - -
That's when we were notified. I think this llth Battalion. I think his body was recovered
yesterday.
Q. Oh,boy.
A. But I'm not sure, because I thought that the llth battalion also was with Ladder 6 when they were - - so I'm not clear on all this.
So we made - - we started to make our way back down, and there were no civilians to speak of in our stairway. There were a couple of stragglers being

B . BECKER
helped by somebody or other. We did tell them keep going down, and there were -- we might have seen a couple of firemen, but everybody was in the process. Everybody was heading down. Nobody was heading up any more, and it was pretty clear that we were getting
out.
Did you have an idea what time you guys t o descend down?
I would say it was like one minute after the first building collapsed, the first collapse of the other building.
Q. So five after ten then?
A. Right. It took us a long time to get up there.
Q. There were firefighters above you?
A. Not that I know of, no. I mean, we didn't see anybody going up ahead of us. We just saw civilians coming down, and by the time we were heading down, there were really no civilians any more, and we had a clear track to the -- and to the lobby.
When we got to the lobby, there was total devastation then. When we went in, it was blasted apart, and there was broken glass everywhere. All the windows were out, but when we got down, just my
Q. started A.

B. BECKER
impression was that it was like being outside. You know,youweren'teveninthebuildinganymore. It was devastation, but we were in the northwest corner of the building, so we were diagonally separated a hundred percent from the first collapsed building. We were on the opposite corner - - we were the most sheltered part.
We got to the lobby, and we saw things. We saw an arrest being made of some Arab-looking type
guy. I think he had a blue uniform type World Trade Center type maintenance type person. It was my impression. It didn't seem important to me. It seemed
like he was being arrested by a Port policeman. That's my impression. I putting cuffs on him, and I remember saying, "Look, they're arresting the "Never mind that. Never mind that."
Authority type remember them
one of the firemen guy," and I said,
You know, it was not our concern. There was chaos in the lobby. It was random people running around. There was no structure. There were no
crowds. There was no - - no operation of any kind going on, nothing. There was no evacuation. It was just people running around, a few Port Authority police, and I think Engine 4 made it down.

B . BECKER
I was talking to guys this morning. You know, we were with them. I remember on one or two floors above, Joe Farrelly, the captain, saying, "Oh, Brian, how you doing? I thought you were behind me," you know, but I ended up ahead of him the last flight. We were checking floors intermittently on the way down occasionally, make sure there were no firemen and stuff. We were trying to do a dignified retreat.
We didn't really realize the extent of what was ahead or what had already happened, and we got to the -- then we got to the lobby.
I have no more recollection of Engine 4. We gathered Engine 28, me and the four firefighters. We gathered by the edge of the lobby, the northwest corner of the lobby by the broken glass, and I made a move towards going out, and then I was worried that we were going to be hit by bodies or falling debris, and then I said -- "I don't know, you know, what --" this is the truth, this is what happened actually in that moment.
I said, "I don't know. Maybe we should stay here for -- maybe we are safer here at the edge of the lobby." And one of the senior guys said, "Let's get the F out of here." So we said, "Okay, let's go,
let's -- Ready, here we go. Let's head for our

overpass."
B. BECKER
So we just ran as a unit to the overpass again, and we took a look up, and it was like one - - it was like, holy shit. It was like - - because it was like - - I guess the building was kind of - - I don't remember specifically, but I remember it was, like, we got to get out of here. So I think that the building was really kind of starting to melt. We were - - like, the melt down was beginning. The collapse hadn't begun, but it was not a fire any more up there. It was like - - it was like that - - like smoke explosion on a tremendous scale going on up there.
I said to the guys - - I said, "We are in the collapse zone." I mean, that sounds like a joke, but I said, "We got to - - we can't stay here." So we started running up West Street, and I'd say within 50 yards or so the building was collapsing behind us, and then it was like everybody was, like, oh shit, you know. This is it. Every man for himself, running up West Street.
Q. So what members of the Company 28 were with you that day? Do you recall?
A. With me?
Q. Yes.
A. Chelsen, Ippolito, Campagna - - he's an

B . BECKER
eight-week guy -- and Kehoe. He's the famous photographed firefighter of Engine 28 on the steps.
Q. Did you happen to remove any injuries or civilians or any of your own members following any collapse?
A. After the -- after the collapse, we were about 50 to a hundred yards north of the pedestrian walkway, and the collapse was occurring, and the firemen were a l l ahead of me, but my four firemen were ahead of me running up West Street, and then the black cloud just came roaring at us, and then we got separated for an hour or so, and I made -- I was torn between -- after like, you know, five or ten minutes, I guess, i f I kept trying to get it together.
Everybody -- you know, it was chaos. You know, it was pure chaos, and after maybe ten minutes or so, trying to figure out what had happened, and where we were, and letting the dust settle a little so we could see where we were, I kind of figured my four guys were safe.
I thought my chauffeur was dead for sure, because he was parked somewhere near the building. I made a little effort to -- I headed back. I figured I have to head back and try to see about my chauffeur, and I started back on my own, but we were confronted,

B. BECKER
like, with a huge pile of burning building, and the - - not even getting near the overpass where we were, and there were other buildings burning, like towering right to the side, and I was by myself, and I just talked to myself, Well, geez, I just almost got killed, and I'm notgoingtotemptfateanymore. Didn'tseemlike there was anywhere to go.
We were kind of blocked. All the rubble was
on West Street, so we would have had to go all the way
around by the river to get around to the other side, so
--
Q. Just going back to the handy-talkies, the communication.
A. Right.
Q. While operating prior to the first collapse, and following the first collapse, were there any communications?
A. We didn't hear anything. I didn't hear anything.
Q. Also during the second collapse - -
A. After the second collapse, it was pure pandemonium on the handy-talkies.
Q. Is there a certain channel that you guys operate on?

B. BECKER
A. We stayed on the primary technical Channel 1. We never switched.
Q. You never switched.
Just going back, given the current status of
any member missing or deceased member, did you see them ordidyou --
A. No, I never saw a firefighter die. I never saw - - turns out our chauffeur made it. He was pulled into a building. He had experienced both collapses on the street, and he had been somehow pulled in on the second one that would have destroyed our apparatus totally. He was pulled into a building by a policeman or something into a federal building or something.
MR. MURAD: George, any questions? BY MR. CUNDARI:
Q. What did you hear when the building starting collapsing the second time? Did you feel - - just started coming down? You didn't hear anything, feel anything?
A. We felt - - our whole building that we were in, when World Trade Center 2 collapsed, that was the first one to collapse. We were in World Trade Center 1. It was a tremendous explosion and tremendous shaking of our building. We thought it was our

B. BECKER
building maybe collapsed, there was a collapse above us occurring.
It was tremendous shaking and like everybody dove into this stairwell and waited for, I guess, 20, 30 seconds until it settled, and that was our experience of the other building collapsing.
MR. MURAD: Lieutenant Becker, I would like to thank you for allowing me to do this interview with you.
The time now is 1220 hours, and I'd like to state this concludes the interview.
          Thank you very much.

File No. 9110020
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER KEVIN MURRAY
Interview Date: October 9, 2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria

2 MR. MURAD/CUNDARI: Today is October 9, 2001. The time is 1240 hours and my name is
Murray Murad/George Cundari of the New York City Fire Department. I am conducting an interview with - -
A. Firefighter, Third Grade, Kevin Murray,
assigned to ladder 18 that day of the Fire Department of the City of New York.
Q. I am currently at Ladder 11 and Engine 28 regarding the events on September 11, 2001. Firefighter Murray, do you want to give your account of the tragic day?
A. Okay. I'll start from the beginning. I came to Ladder 11. I was - - I knew I was being detailed to 18 Truck and I thought I was riding for somebody on 11 Truck when the first plane hit. The second alarm was given, 28 Engine was turned out and I had somebody relieve me on 11 Truck so I could get over to 18 Truck in case they went on the box. I got over to 18 Truck. I was assigned by Lieutenant Borega, I was assigned the can and shortly after that the fifth alarm was given for the first tower and we went to - - 18 Truck was assigned. That's just about the same time that the second plane had
K. Murray

3
K. Murray
hit, because we still saw kind of the explosion when
we got onto the FDR, because they're pretty close. On the FDR, there is a lot of traffic on the
FDR and we saw - - I don't know which tower it was, but I think it was Tower 2, what looked like a hole where the fire was. That looked like a plane had gone through it.
Q. So that would probably be the south tower?
A. Probably the south tower, right, because we were coming from the FDR. So the south tower is closer. So probably the south tower. We saw - - I couldn't believe what I was looking at. We got under the bridge that goes from the FDR into West Street and there was - - it was unbelievable. There was jumpers everywhere, there was bodies everywhere, pieces of plane everywhere. It didn't seem like a lot of firemen everywhere. There was rigs parked in a couple of different areas, but you didn't see a lot of firemen, at all.
Q. Would you happen to know basically or to the best of your knowledge, where you saw those rigs?
A. There was a couple of rigs parked in front of the north tower and a couple of rigs parked - -

4
K. Murray
there was a bridge that comes across where Liberty
Street is and there was a van fire right next to that. I remember seeing that when I came in. And I saw a couple of rigs parked on Liberty Street.
Where we parked, our rig was on -- we parked our rig under the bridge, the pedestrian bridge of -- that comes from 1World Trade across the street to the Financial Center, the pedestrian bridge. That's where we parked our r i g under.
Q. Were you able to identify any of the other
apparatus
A. That were there?
Q. If you recall.
A. The rigs that we saw?
Q. Right.
A. No. Not to my knowledge. There was a
company that was pulled in right next to us. I'm not sure what that company was.
Q. Okay.
A. Now we're all just looking up. The first thing the Lieutenant said i s "We're staying together on this." I said, "Lieu, I'm grabbing a search rope." I grabbed a search rope, we a l l grabbed an extra cylinder and we started heading across under
or units that were there?

5
north tower. So we had walked alongside of 6 World Trade. We're parked under here. 18 Truck was parked on this side of the street, right there. We walked under the bridge and then pretty much walked into 1World Trade right on this corner. Tower 1, that's how I went into the building (indicating).
There was a bunch of glass broken and we didn't go i n through a doorway. There was a l l glass
broken, there was glass everywhere and there was bodies everywhere. Everywhere that you looked there was a body or mush, you know. We got into -- the command center was somewhere in here or there was a bunch of chiefs somewhere in here (indicating).
When we got in there, there was a lot of people not knowing what to do. Van Essen was there. Van Essen came over to 18 Truck.
Q. This i s the north tower; correct?
A. North tower. Van Essen came over to the 18 Truck as soon as we got into the building or shortly thereafter and said, "Forget about the fire. Just get the people out." That's what they actually told us and these people -- we're waiting to get a sign basically.
K. Murray
the bridge towards the f i r s t tower, Tower 1, the

6
wall, the exposure 4 wall -- the exposure 2 wall and waited to get a sign. 21 Engine was doing the same thing, standing there with us and we were waiting to get a sign. I actually helped Father Judge into the building, because he went under one of those --
where the glass was, they had these metal bars going across and he had to bend over and walk under it.
So I helped him into the building and then they
said, we're going to be sent to the third floor and above. To start working our way up to start doing the search.
Now my father works in the building and I'm looking for a directory to see where he worked and we went to -- the first floor we went to was the third floor and all these people were coming down in the rear of the tower back here. They have these escalators that were shut off and all these people were coming down.
The elevators looked like they were on fire in the lobby. There wasn't smoke coming out of them, but it looked like they all bubbled up and everything and there was a fire in there. Basically we took the B stairwell, which is in between the
K. Murray
So we stood over here on the northern most

7
K. Murray
elevators. I'm sorry. We forced an elevator door
first and we got an lady out of an elevator. The elevator in the B stair, next to the B stairwell, closest to the B stairwell. We helped a lady out of there and we started walking up to the third floor. That third floor was clear. There was no damage, nothing. We got up to the fifth floor and there was severe damage. The ceilings had come down, the some walls had caved in. Major sprinkler damage, because there wasn't just a sprinkler. It was just like 2 and a half inch hose hitting you in the face when
you were walking up there. So we were walking. We figured this is a good place to start looking for people and we were in some sort of -- we didn't see a company name or anything. Like we were in some sort of corporate area with cubicles or anything.
It was almost like we were in like a locker room or something. We had made our way to like where the janitors worked or something. We had checked a l l the locker rooms and everything else. We were forcing some doors. We were there for a while.
Then we went to the sixth floor and did the same thing. Same sort of damage up there. When we were on the sixth floor, it was the sixth floor or

8 the fifth floor, we were helping the people get down
the B stairwell. And what I found out later to be was the first tower had collapsed.
Q. The south tower?
A. The south tower had collapsed. Now, it shook us and knocked a couple of guys down. Everybody ran to the stairwell. All the lights went off, all the shit came up the stairwell. It was filled with dust. There was a report that a third plane had hit the building and then we got another report that the 65 floor in the north tower had collapsed. That's what the rumbling was. We had no idea that the south tower had gone.
So at that point we - -
Q. Did you get a report from the radio? Any
communications? How was the communications at that point?
A. Communications were all over the place. I had the can so I didn't have a radio, but I was with the irons man and I kinds of heard a lot, but a lot of people were trying to talk at the same time. It was just static, a lot. What you did hear was - - what I did hear at one point, which I thought was Ladder 11, but it wound up being Battalion 11,
K. Murray

9 because I was listening for them, was on the 30th
K. Murray
floor. But it wasn't Ladder 11. It was Battalion
We basically did an evacuation at that point and we started trying to get the people to keep going down the stairs, to calm down. What happened was that we didn't see it, but a portion of the lobby had gotten knocked out when that tower came down, so we couldn't evacuate people down that stairwell anymore. So we started funneling everybody that was on the stairwell through the 5th floor, across the 5th floor through the locker room, to another stairwell. I think it's the C stairwell. I'm not sure. And we started sending people down that.
Eventually someone - - and we were basically set up on a relay where it would be a couple of us every 15, 20 feet with flashlights showing people where to walk and we sent the people down that stairwell. Whatever was blocking the B stairwell must have got freed up, because then we were able to - - we were able to start sending them back down that stairwell. Because people, it was taking forever to get these people through the 5th floor.

10 Q. And were all you guys still together at
the same time or were you separated?
A. We were spread out on the 5th floor, but
we were all together. We were all there.
Q. Okay were you also on channel l?
A. Yes. We were always on channel 1.
Q. At any time did they advise you to switch
to another channel?
A. I heard something about somebody being in
a different tower or something, switch to channel 3. But I didn't have a radio, so I didn't really think about that.
Q. When you were in the second collapse, of the north tower, do you recall the individuals or the companies that were with you?
A. 28 Engine was with us when we left the building. They weren't with us on the floor when we came down. After that, after we got everybody out, it was all firemen in the stairwells, in the B stairwell and I saw a guy from 16 Engine that I knew on the stairwell. We kind of waved to each other.
I saw a guy from 15 Engine in the stairwell.
Q. Do you recall any of their names by chance?
K. Murray

11 A. Yes. Jimmy Hynes from 15 Engine, I saw
him in the stairwell. He's okay. Pete Fallucca from 16 Engine, I saw him. He's okay. And this is all in the stairwell coming down. We went down to the lobby. Because once the firemen were all evacuating, we decided to evacuate with them. We went down to the lobby, this is the first time I got to see the lobby. We were missing Charlie Maloney from 18 Truck. We didn't know where he was. I think he was the irons with me that day. Because he had gone down to the front of the stairwell to guide civilians out the stairwell. When we got to the lobby and saw so the lobby was devastated, we thought maybe he got killed in that. But he wound up being okay later on.
What happened was we got down to the lobby and a guy from Rescue 1, I don't know his name, came over to 18 Truck and said, "You gotta help us if you got any steam left." He was all bloodied up. He goes, "My company is trapped upstairs and we got more companies trapped upstairs." He goes, "If you got anything left, come with me."
We run up the stairs. We started going back up. Now all these firemen are evacuating the
K. Murray

12 building, we start going back up the B stairwell.
We made it to the 5th floor and then there was a report of major gas, a gas leak on the 5th floor. So now I'm heading back up the stairs to the 20 something floor and there was some sort of gas leak on the 5th floor. I smelled it, but I couldn't tell if it was a gas leak or anything, but you definitely smelled something that wasn't there when we were doing the evacuation.
Q. Was there any conversation when you guys were going back up and there were firefighters descending down? Was there any conversation between the two groups?
A. More so through Lieutenants, but, you know, just basically. "Be safe." No one said anything about the tower having gone down. I don't think a lot of people knew that it had gone down. We didn't know.
So when we got up to the 5th floor and we smelled that gas and we saw these guys evacuating, we said, "We better get out of here." So we started heading down again. The guy from Rescue kept going up. He didn't stay with us. I don't know his name.
A short, stocky guy.
K. Murray

K. Murray
Q. Was the stairwell lit?
A. We removed an injured civilian at the beginning and a couple of hundred civilians through. You know, getting them through that stairwell. But other than that, we didn't carry anybody out. The civilians were kind of -- once the collapse
happened, they were shot. But they weren't panicking, running or anything like that. They were kind of staying calm.
Q. Given the current known status of the missing, the injured, deceased members, who did you see and where did you see them and what were they doing at the time? Was there any verbal interaction? Like I asked before when you guys were up and down the staircase. Did you last see someone?
A. When we came down to the lobby, we saw 28 Engine. We also saw 4 Engine. 4 Engine was in the lobby with us. There was another company that was back -- I don't know what company it was. It was back by the escalators, walking towards the front of the lobby. I think it was an Engine Company. I ' m not sure.
We had a guy from 28 Engine, Roy Chelsen, had

14 coming down, a lot of
glass was coming down, said we
Lieutenant Becker and Roy, who
"Let's run." They ran out Tower 1, alongside World Trade 6 and we had said -- 18 Truck conferred too and said, "We should go too." But the thing we were scared about was that the jumpers were coming down and all the glass was coming down. There was a lot more jumpers coming down at that time. And there was a guy under the bridge screaming, "Come on.
Come on. Come on." You know. We ran. A couple of jumpers just missed me and the roof man.
We got under the bridge and we stopped, because my hook got caught in Harry's suspenders and his radio. It took me forever to get my hook out of his thing. We thought we were safe at that point. We saw a guy, I think big Port Authority Police or somebody had a guy locked up i n handcuffs right i n
front of us and there was a guy, a rig right there. Q. You can use the diagram to show us.
A. There was a rig right here. Actually,
even closer. It was right as soon you got onto the street. There was a rig and a couple of guys sitting on the back of the rig.
K. Murray said, We saw all these jumpers
should run.
is a senior man said,

K. Murray Q. At West and Vesey?
A. Yeah. Right in front of World Trade, right under the bridge. And they were all messed up. You know, like exhausted and they were sitting there. We walked - - now we're walking. This guy, they were locking up this guy a little bit from Vesey, right here. A little bit south of Vesey
Street on tower - -
Q. A. Q. A. Q.
A. We went north on West Street. We decided not to go to our rig, because we saw a lot of people up here, so we started going towards them. When the tower started - - there was a big explosion that I heard and someone screamed that it was coming down and I looked away and I saw all the windows
domino - - you know, dominoeing up and then come down. We were right in front of 6, so we started running and how are you going to outrun the World
west. We started walking when the second
They are describing it as the north tower. The north tower came down.
Where did you exit out of?
The same place - -
The same way you went in? Okay. You went north on West Street?

16 Trade Center? So we threw our tools and I dove
under a rig. The chauffeur Hughey from 18 Truck dove with me. The rest of 18 Truck dove under something else. Not the same rig as us, and then it came down. I don't even think we made it to Vesey Street. We might have been right on the corner of Vesey Street.
Q. And were the guys from 18 safe and accounted for?
A. Well, not at that point, but eventually through the day we found Charlie Maloney who we thought was killed in the lobby. He had made it out himself across to the Financial Center, across the street, and the roof man, Ralph from 18 Truck had gotten hurt and he was found at 7 Engine and 1 Truck
later on. Q.
A.
About seven hours later.
Anything else you want to add?
No.
MR.MURAD/CUNDARI: Okay. Sobasically
K. Murray
this
to thank you, Firefighter Kevin Murray, for this interview which you just gave us.
The time now is 1300 hours and at this time I would like to conclude this
concludes our interview. I would like

K. Murray interview. Thank you very much.

File No. 9110021
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER MATTHEW LONG
Interview Date: October 9, 2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria

2 MR. MURAD: The date i s October 9, 2001.
The time i s 1425 hours and this i s Murray Murad and --
MR. CUNDARI: George Cundari.
MR. MURAD: Of the Fire Department of the City of New York. I am conducting an interview with the following firefighter: A. Matthew Long. Firefighter f i r s t rank,
Ladder 43.
MR. MURAD: Of the Fire Department of the City of New York. We are currently at Ladder 43 and this is regarding the tragic events on September 11, 2001.
BY MR. MURAD:
Q. If you would please give your accounts of
that day, on that tragic day what happened at the World Trade Center regarding your ladder company and personally yourself.
A. Okay. We were at a box. That's when the seconds plane h i t and then we took i n the Trade Center incident. We came in on West Street and to the best of my knowledge I could see both towers on fire, a lot of smoke. I witnessed people jumping as we were driving down the West Street highway.
M. Long

3
M. Long
Q. If you could draw on the diagram of where
your resting place was.
A. I believe we stopped somewhere on Murray
Street, almost two blocks from the 6 World Trade and another block from the first tower. At that moment we got off the rig, we got all our equipment together and I started walking towards the command post. We took a minute. Our lieutenant, Glenn Rohan, took a minute, stopped us all and basically gave us a little pep talk. We didn't know what we were getting into here. It was obviously some kind of an attack and that we should conserve energy, get rid of some tools and stay together most of all.
So we started back down West Street towards the Trade Center and I would say we got to between Barclay and Vesey when the first tower came down and it was chaos. It was crazy.
Q. Were all you guys from the truck together at the time that collapse came?
A. We were all together at the time with one extra roof man.
Q. That was the south tower that you're talking about?
A. I believe, yes. I believe it was the

4 first tower. I believe when we were coming down the
West Side Highway the both towers were still standing and burning and there was no chaos going on at that point.
So we retreated a little bit I guess, right to about Barclay and we ducked in, possibly, I don't remember, but we possibly ducked in 125 Barclay. We ducked in like an entranceway and just lay on the floor while most of the stuff was blowing by us.
And when it seemed to have - - when the cloud of gray and black crap and things going by just seemed to slow down, we tied off a rope and started walking in to go back towards where everything used to be.
Q. You came down West Street from there?
A. Yes. We came down this way, like that (indicating).
Q. Just circle this here and identify this as 125 Barclay. That's where you waited until the debris and everything cleared?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there any communications by radio or was there still command post communications post - -
A. At this point it was just - - there was just people running past us and so much chaos. We
M. Long

5
M. Long
masked up and we started walking in with a rope. We
had a search rope on and at that point I didn't know where we were headed.
Q. Were any other firefighters running you way or did you intercept anybody?
A. There were some cops running our way. There were -- there could have been firemen running, but there were fire trucks everywhere and when we got in further, there was just fire, a lot of rigs on fire.
Q. Were you able to identify the rigs that were on fire, by any chance?
A. No, I didn't recall which rigs were there at that point. But at that point we stretched in. We started climbing over the rubble and the boss said --
Q. What boss was that?
A. Lieutenant Rohan, Glenn Rohan, 43. He was just telling us to get -- he took three guys and said, "Grab a line off that rig and start putting out some of these car fires and rig fires." As he tried to look to see if there was still a command post. So that's what we did. So he split us up into two teams. And that's what we did probably for

6 a while and I don't even remember the second tower
coming down. We just kept working and climbing over stuff. I don't remember it coming down. I don't know if it came my direction or it went in the other direction, because it was just black. It had to
be -- visibility was horrible for at least 45, 50, 60 minutes. I don't remember the time at that point.
So that's what we kept doing. We kept stretching hose lines. There was a ladder to -- there was a portable ladder up on 6 World Trade, so we were in this area right here just climbing over all sorts of debris. It was crush -- I think Rescue 1 was right about here.
Q. You are identifying the West Side Highway, right off Vesey; right?
A. It was in near Vesey. It was inside of -- it was between 6 and 1 and that's where the foot bridge I believe is.
Q. So that's the pedestrian bridge?
A. That's the pedestrian bridge. So it was right in front of 6.
Q. Okay. So that was Rescue 1.
A. Rescue 1 was right around here. I
M. Long

7
M. Long
remember that. And this was down. So this is where
we operated from the most, for the first hour, right here. Vesey and West Street. There were rigs everywhere. Rigs were a l l over here, they were burning. Between Barclay and Vesey there had t o be a dozen rigs burning.
Q. At any point did you remove any civilians or a member of the service following any of the collapses? If so, were there any injuries or did you see any firefighters that were injured?
A. No. I didn't encounter any injured firefighters. I didn't leave anyone alone. If I saw them alone, I checked t o make sure they were a l l right. If they weren't, I was looking for their company or looking for their boss.
Q. Were people s t i l l running towards you o r running away at that point?
A. No. At this point now when we were putting out fires everyone was, you know, was pretty much just scrambling for hose line and doing stuff like that. Then, like I said, the boss went up a ladder that was to the scaffold of 6 World Trade here, where the U.S. Customs building i s . He yelled down he needed two stokes, because they had a down

M. Long
fireman up here.
So we went and grabbed two baskets, tied them
up and they carried him up the land. At that point is when they were looking for 6 Truck. 6 Truck and 39 Engine, they were saying were missing over the radios?
Q. I don't remember.
A. 6 Truck and 39 were together and they were trapped and they were calling for help on the radio. That's the last radio transmission I heard on channel 1. My boss and Jerry Suden and Todd Frederickson, two firefighters, and Johnny Colon, he was the chauffeur that day. The four of them went through this building and into the rubble of the both towers.
Q. The both towers were down at that point?
A. Yes. Both towers were definitely down a t that point. So they went in there and that's the
l a s t I heard from them. They switched t o channel 5. I didn't hear it given over the radio, for the 43 truck to switch to 5, so I operated with Frank Macchia. He was the second roof man and we teamed up in 6 World Trade with the 40th battalion. And we searched this building top to bottom. That's the 6

M. Long
World Trade, U.S. Customs building.
Q. Right.
A. So we searched that building top to bottom and just constantly getting dead ends.
Q. At what point do you think you guys hooked up all together as a company? Was that at any point or not at all?
A. I didn't hook back up with the rest of my company until 5:00 or 6:00 o'clock at night. So I operated alone a lot.
Q. Okay. Anything t o add?
A. The 7 came down at 4:30, I believe?
Q. Yeah, around that time.
A. Okay. Then I'm wrong. If 7 came down
between 4:30 and 5:00, I hooked up with my company. Frank Macchia and I went under this foot bridge and started climbing on top of the rubble. At that point there was like a chain gang of guys and we were trying to get one of the Chiefs that was trapped, they were trying to get closer to him.
Q. Let's highlight that area.
A. Okay. We came under the foot bridge this way and we probably would be on top or in this little courtyard between 1 and 2.

M. Long
Q. Okay. And this is where - -
A. 1 and 2 here. And there was a rubble here. There was like a big 40, 50-foot drop you had to walk down and then back up and we had a little bit of a chain gang trying to pass stuff out and they were supposedly in communication with one Chief and I was probably midway up with Frank Macchia and my boss and Jerry and whoever else was up on top of that rubble. So I waited there and that's when we finally got reunited. And at that point they were worried that 7 was coming down so they were calling for everyone to back out.
So I waited for - - we waited for the boss, Lieutenant Rohan, in the middle of the rubble and we
all walked out together back to the Highway and crossed the highway and out by the marina when 7 came down.
Q. Where were you during the
A. Walking down West Street. to the command center.
West Side pretty much hung
first collapse?
 We were walking
Q. And then you heard the second collapse, you said; right?
A. I don't remember the second collapse at all. I guess it was just stuff going through my

11 head and whatever else. I'm almost 100% positive - -
actually I had a camera on the rig when we were driving on the West Side Highway, I took pictures, but they didn't come out and I can remember both towers burning and we could see people jumping. From then on our minds were just like you didn't know what was going on. Unimaginable.
Q. Alotoftalkontheradiosor--
A. Q. A.
A tremendous amount of talk on the radios. Were you able to understand?
I mean there was a lot of people yelling.
M. Long
"We'retrappedhere.""Weneedtoolshere." "We need tools here." And nothing was getting answered because rigs were - - there were rig fires and police vehicle fires. They said the ESU units were on fire and they had explosives and weapons. So that was the concern. The amount of stuff that was flying in the air. It wasn't even like smoke. It was like dust or whatever it was. It was just lingering and it stayed there for such a long time. Which led me to believe that the second building collapsed and, you know, they just kept it going.
Imeanthat'smystoryprettymuch. Imeanit was a long time. I was by myself a long time. I

12
M. Long
didn't try to call them for a while because there
stuff on the radio and I was all right. You had nobody with you?
I was with one other firefighter, Frank The two of us worked.
You were together the whole time?
A.
battalion. We worked in that building for a while and the building was totally evacuated. We didn't see anybody and there was some pockets of fire, you know, big holes in it, but we were -- we eventually left him to try to reunite ourselves with our guys.
Q. And you finally found them over where?
A. We found them through this foot bridge, probably right in this area here of the rubble, the center of the rubble. We went through the foot bridge and came up and there were some I beams and there was a big wall. You kind of climbed down a bit and then came back up, and that is where our boss was operating up there, on top of that where they said they possibly had communications with a chief that was trapped. I'm assuming he was one that they left there. Because they were just
adamant about 7 coming down immediately. I think we
was other Q.
A. Macchia.
Q.
We stayed together after we left the 48th

13 probably got out of that rubble and 18 minutes later
i s when 7 came down. So I watched - - we watched. There was a command station right here on Vesey. We were here with a whole group of guys. We watched 7 come down and then we went through, I guess this is the morgue now, Merrill Lynch, we went through that building there and there was an atrium we came through to go back on the other side and try to get back in to help.
Q. So you came from North End street then?
A. Yes. We came right through. This i s the marina. We went right through -- there is an atrium here and we came through here and there was another command post on this side and we were trying to get back in to see what they were doing. Lieutenant Nigro from 58 Engine was missing and apparently they knew where he was. We were trying to help out
there, but by then it was -- by darkness we were all just spent. We were just hanging out.
MR. MURAD: Firefighter Matthew Long, I would like to thank you for sitting down with us for this interview. The time now is 1440 hours and this concludes this portion of the interview.
M. Long

FILE NO 9110022
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIRST GRADE FIREFIGHTER GERARD SUDEN
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

SUDEN
MR MURAD TODAY IS OCTOBER 2001 THE TIME IS 1445 HOURS IM MURRAY MURAD
MR CUNDARI IM GEORGE CUNDARI
MR MURAD OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE
OF NEW YORK
CITY
IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH FIREFIGHTER IM GERARD SUDEN LADDER 43
RANK AND COMMAND
FIRST
YOUR ASSIGNED COMMAND
IM ASSIQNED TO 43 TRUCK
GRADE FIREFIGHTER
OKAY
FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK
IM CURRENTLY AT LADDER 43 ENGINE 53 AND THIS IS REGARDING THE TRAGIC EVENTS THAT OCCURRED ON
SEPTEMBER 11 2001 GERARD WOULD YOU LIKE TO GIVE AN ACCOUNT OF THAT DAY THAT YOU WERE WORKING OR ASSIGNED TO LADDER 43 ON SEPTEMBER 11
SURE TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE WASNT TOO FAMILIAR WITH THAT AREA BEFORE IT HAPPENED BUT FROM LOOKING AT THIS MAP WILL TRY AND GIVE YOU THE
ACC CAN
MR CUNDARI START FROM LIKE WHEN YOU CAME
INTO WORK THAT MORNING OR WHERE YOU GOT THE CALL

SUDEN
WHERE YOU WERE
LIKE WAS TELLING YOU GUYS IT WAS MY FIRST
TOUR BACK TO 43 TRUCK AFTER 90 DAY DETAIL TO
TRUCK AS YOU KNOW THOSE GUYS ARE GONE THAT WHOLE TRUCK WAS WIPED OUT IT WAS GOOD TO BE BACK WAS CLEANING THE TOOLS ON THE RIG AND THE NEXT THING KNOW GUYS ARE YELLING FROM THE KITCHEN AND WENT IN AND WE WERE WATCHING IT ON TV
IT WAS KIND OF HARD TO BELIEVE BUT WHAT
HAPPENED WAS THE ENGINE 53 ENGINE GOT SENT DOWN THERE PRETTY EARLY ON LIKE BEFORE THE SECOND PLANE HIT THEY WERE EN ROUTE AND BELIEVE FROM TALKING TO THEM THEY WITNESSED THE PLANE HIT THEY WERE DOWN THERE KNEW IT WAS BAD
WE WISHED THEM WELL WHEN THEY WENT DOWN AND THINK ME AND THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE TRUCK JUST THE NATURE OF THE JOB WE WERE CHOMPING AT THE BIT TO GET DOWN THERE OURSELVES WE WANTED TO HELP OUT THEY WERE KIND OF PULLING MOST OF THE COMPANIES FROM THE AREA AND WE WERE GETTING THE FEELING THAT WE WERENT GOING TO GET TO GO BECAUSE THEY PULLED THE COMPANY
US AND TH US
WE WOUND UP GETTING AT SOME POINT IN THE
MIDDLE OF WOUND UP GETTING AN EMS RUN ON 42ND STREET

SUDEN
WHICH IS WAY OUT OF OUR DISTRICT BUT BEING THAT THE
CITY WAS SO UNDERMANNED THEY SENT US ALL THE WAY DOWN
THERE AND AS WE WERE EN ROUTE YOU COULD SEE THE SMOKE
AND PEOPLE WATCHING IT ON THE STREETS EXECUTIVES
SMOKING CIGARETTES AND EVERYBODY WAS LOOKING WE WANTED TO GET THERE LIKE SAID
WE WENT TO ASSIST THE EMS RUN WAS FOR
GUY WHO HAD HIS FOOT STUCK IN REVOLVING DOOR
REMEMBER BEING LITTLE ANNOYED LIKE WANT TO BE DOWN THERE WE GOT FINISHED WITH THAT AND WE WERE PRETTY MUCH ASKINQ THE DISPATCHER TO SEND US LET US HELP OUT WE ARE CLOSER TO THE AREA WE WERENT GETTING
RESPONSE AND SHORTLY AFTER WE WERE EN ROUTE BACK NORTH TOWARDS HERE HOME WE DID WIND UP GETTING SENT WE MADE WAY HEADED DOWN THERE
WHAT WAS THE RADIO COMMUNICATION AT THAT TIME AFTER YOU FINISHED THE EMS JOB WHAT WAS THE TRANSMISSIONS GOING OVER THE AIR
FROM THE BACK COULDNT HEAR TOO MUCH OF WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE CAB AND RECALL BEING AT
LIGHT ON THE WAY NORTH AGAIN AND WE KNEW BY NOW YOU
UT IT WAS ATTACK TH TW PLANES AND REMEMBER SCOOTERS MOTORS ONE OF THE
FIGUR
GUYS DELIVERY MESSENGER GUY LISTENING
TO HEAD

SUDEN
PHONE TOLD US THEY JUST FLEW PLANE INTO THE PENTAGON AND THAT WAS KIND OF UNBELIEVABLE IT WAS ALL REAL
PRETTY SURREALISTIC BUT REMEMBER CONFIRMING THAT WITH ANOTHER DRIVER SOMEBODY DRIVING CAR WAS
TO HIS RADIO SO THEN WE WERE KIND OF BELIEVED IT
THE RADIO COMMUNICATION IM GOING TO TELL YOU WHEN WE GOT DOWN THERE WASNT REALLY CLUED INTO THE FACT THAT THE FIRST BUILDING WAS DOWN AND FOUND OUT LATER THAT THATS WHAT THE SITUATION WAS WHEN WE QOT DOWN THERE THE FIRST BUILDINQ HAD BEEN DOWN WHEN
FOUND OUT LATER ON THAT THERE WAS LIKE 20 SOMETHING MINUTES BETWEEN THE COLLAPSES ITS PRETTY LONG TIME
LISTENING
NOT TO GO WITH THAT INFORMATION BUT THERE WAS NO COMMUNICATION NOT FROM THE AIR ANYWAY THINK
WERE 10 WE HAD LESS ABILITY TO FIND THIS OUT
WE
PEOPLE THAT WERE WATCHING IT ON TV KNEW LIKE SAID
AT HOME BUT WE WERE JUST ON THE AIR AND TRYING TO GET DOWN THERE
YOU CAN DRAW ON THAT BY THE WAY THATS FINE WILL JUST TELL YOU MP CUNDAPI MARK WH
YOU WENT SOUTH ON WEST STREET
WE ARE COMING DOWN THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY AND

SUDEN
SOME POINT PRETTY GOOD DISTANCE NORTH WE JUMPED OUT WITH GOOD VIEW OF THE TOWER AND GUESS THE SOUTH
TOWERS WAS DOWN IT WAS BUFFERED BY THE NORTH TOWER SO WE REALLY COULDNT TELL WE JUST SEEN THE SMOKE FROM BEHIND IT WE FIGURED THE BUILDING WAS THERE JUST BURNING BUT LOOKING AT THE NORTH TOWER WALKING DOWN THE BLOCK YOU COULD SEE THE GAPING HOLE AND WE WERE ALL PRETTY IN AWE OF IT
WE COMMANDEERED BUS KIND OF STOPPED BUS BECAUSE WE WERE GOOD DISTANCE WE WERE FEW
BLOCKS COULDNT EVEN TELL YOU WHICH STREET MAYBE WARREN OR EVEN FURTHER NORTH FROM WHAT REMEMBER WE WANTED TO GET THERE EVEN QUICKER SO WE JUMPED ON THE
BUS AND THEY DROPPED US SOMEWHERE REMEMBER THIS PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE REMEMBER WALKING SOUTH OF THAT AND
CANT TELL YOU HOW CLOSE WE WERE BUT WE RAN BACK PAST THAT BECAUSE AS WE WERE WALKING DOWN THE BUILDING CAME DOWN
WHILE
WASNT LIK
THAT WAS THE NORTH BUILDING
THAT WAS THE NORTH BUILDING WHICH FOR
WAS ARGUING WITH THE GUY THAT
THAT TH TH BUILDING
SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDST OF THAT WHOLE NOISE MAYBE THE
SAID
WAS THOUGHT THAT WAS THE FIRST ONE
THOUGHT

SUDEN
SECOND ONE CAME DOWN AND COULDNT PINPOINT WHEN IT WAS BUT THAT WAS THE CASE THAT WAS THE SECOND ONE
COMING DOWN
SO YOU SAID YOU HEARD WHEN YOU GOT THERE THAT
THE BUILDING CAME DOWN BUT YOU WERENT SURE SOMEONE SAID THAT THE BUILDING
NO DIDNT REALLY WASNT SURE AT ALL AFTER TALKING ABOUT IT LATER ON ONE OF THE GUYS
LIEUTENANT SAID THAT THEY WERE DEBATING IT ON THE WAY IN SAYING TO EACH OTHER THAT THINK THAT BUILDING IS DOWN WE WERE ALL TALKINQ TO EACH OTHER AND TALKINQ ABOUT WE ARE GOING TO STICK TOGETHER WE KNEW IT WAS BAD SITUATION WE WERE GOING INTO WE WERE GOING TO BE WORKING LONG TIME REMEMBER THE LIEUTENANT TELLING US TO TAKE AN EXTRA MINUTE ALSO MAKE SURE YOU DONT HAVE ANY HEAVY CLOTHING ON UNDER YOUR BUNKER GEAR WE ARE GOING TO BE HERE WHILE
WE STRIPPED DOWN LITTLE BIT SO BETWEEN THE GUY WITH HIS FOOT STUCK IN REVOLVING DOOR AND THE LIEUTENANT GIVING US GOOD HEADS UP ON THE WAY IN WHO IS TO SAY WHAT KEPT US BEING THERE MINUTE SOONER BUT
AT DISTANC WHTH BUILDING CAM
WERE FORTUNATE THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO BE SAND BLASTED OFF THE STREET BY THE LOOKS OF IT WE ALL RAN

SUDEN
WE WERE TRYING TO BREAK INTO GATE WE RAN BACK NORTH WE WERE TRYING TO BREAK INTO GATE AND GET FURTHER OFF THE STREET
WHEN IT PASSED US THE DUST AND DEBRIS WE WERE AT DECENT DISTANCE BUT THE VISIBILITY WAS ZERO
SO WE MASKED UP YOU COULDNT SEE WE WERE STARTING
TO GET BACK DOWN THE STREET WE KNEW PEOPLE WERE GOING TO NEED HELP WE MASKED UP FOR TIME
REMEMBER ALSO WE USED ROPE FOR LITTLE
BIT THAT BECAME PRETTY BURDENSOME YOU COULDNT GET FAR AND YOU HAVE TO RUN BACK AND UNTIE IT BUT THATS HOW LOW THE VISIBILITY WAS IT STARTED TO LIGHTEN UP WE WENT DOWN GUESS TO RIGHT OUTSIDE THE NORTH BUILDING AND AS WE WERE WALKING DOWN ALL THE CARS WERE
ON FIRE ON WEST STREET SO
ANOTHER GUY
REMEMBER MY LIEUTENANT WELL WE ALL STARTED
TELLING ME AND
WORKING ON THIS
WAS BROOKLYN
MAYBE TO VESEY
PULLED THE LINE
ME STAY ON THIS
MIK THAT WAS WITH US THAT DAY
STAYED TOGETHER ON THE LINE AND HE TOOK THE REST OF THE CREW CANT TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT HE DID IN THE TIME
WAS BROOKLYN PUMPER IT
PUMPER IT
ENGINE PARKED SOMEWHERE LITTLE NORTH
MAYBE THE CORNER OF VESEY BUT WE
OFF OF THAT AND REMEMBER HIM TELLING LINE ME AND ANOTHER GUY WAS WITH

SUDEN
THAT WE WERE PUTTING OUT THE CAR FIRES BUT REMEMBER THE VISIBILITY PUTTING OUT THE CAR FIRES IT WASNT EXACTLY WHAT AM NORMALLY DOING WORKING IN
TRUCK COMPANY BUT ALL BETS WERE OFF HE TOLD US TO STAY WITH THAT LINE IT NEEDED TO BE DONE
WE PUT OUT BELIEVE IT WAS RESCUE SOME OF THE RIGS MEAN THERE WAS RIGS ALSO CANT EVEN TELL YOU HOW MANY CAR FIRES THERE WAS BUT WE ARE PUTTING THEM OUT AND YOU REALIZE THE VISIBILITY WAS
GETTING
SOMEWHAT BETTER MEAN IT NEEDED TO BE DONE YOU WORKED YOUR WAY SOUTH ON WEST STREET WORKED OUR WAY SOUTH PUTTING OUT FIRES WE
EVEN WENT FURTHER SOUTH OF TOWER ONE PUTTING THEM OUT AND COMING BACK AND WE HAD LOT OF HELP ALONG FROM OTHER GUYS STRETCHING THE LINE AND THE DEBRIS IN THE
STREET WAS JUST TOUGH GOING OVER
PEOPLE STILL RUNNING BY YOU AT THAT POINT
YES STRETCHERS ARE BEING CARRIED OUT GUYS
ARE ON TOP OF
WHAT BUILDING TRADE CENTER
THERE WAS SOME SCAFFOLDING THERE ON IM NOT SURE MAYBE IT WAS WORLD
THOUGHT IT WAS JUST WEST OF THE
IT WAS TH LIK SAID
MAYB
WASNT THAT FAMILIAR WITH THE AREA TO BEGIN WITH
THERE WAS STRETCHERS COMING OUT

WHERE USED
TO BE ASSIGNED WAS TELLING
ONE OF THE
SUDEN
AFTER PUTTING OUT THE CAR FIRES WAS TRYING TO FIND THE LIEUTENANT AGAIN THE ORIGINAL PLAN WAS STICK TOGETHER THEY WERENT ALL PUT OUT EITHER BUT JUST THERE WAS ENOUGH ENGINE COMPANIES THERE WANTED TO GROUP BACK UP WITH THE LIEUTENANT WOUND UP
FINDING HIM AND HE HAD HELPED CARRY COUPLE OF STRETCHERS LEARNED LATER THAT ONE OF THE STRETCHERS
CARRIED WAS FRIEND OF MINE ACTUALLY DIDNT KNOW AT THE TIME
IT WAS
IT WAS LIEUTENANT DESPERITO FROM ENQINE
FIREFIGHTER
GUYS IN 22 ENGINE AND THEY TOOK IT HARD COMPANY
SOUTH OF US WAS TELLING HIM ABOUT IT BECAUSE HE WAS THERE AND REMEMBERED SEEING HIM AND WAS TELLING HIM HEY SAW YOU AND HE SAID OH YES THAT WAS
LIEUTENANT FOUND OUT LATER THAT
WAS THAT AFTER COMING OUT OF THE NORTH TOWER OR WAS THAT FROM THE SOUTH TOWER WHERE WAS IT
BASICALLY
HE WAS BEING TAKEN DOWN BELIEVE HE WAS IN
TH AND TH TAKING HIM UT JUST
HAND SO AFTER DOING THAT TIME WAS COULDNT BELIEVE WHEN EVERYTHING WAS DONE LATER IN THE DAY YOU
GAVE
10

SUDEN
LOSE KIND OF TRACK OF TIME WITH THE ADRENALINE
AND ALL IT SEEMED LIKE IT WENT FASTER THAN IT DID AND THEN LOOKING BACK ON IT SOMETIMES IT SEEMS SLOW BUT
AT THE TIME DONT KNOW HOW MUCH TIME WAS IN
BETWEEN
BUT WHEN HOOKED UP WITH THE LIEUTENANT
AGAIN HEARD LATER THEY HAD BEEN HELPING PEOPLE OUT ALSO HELPING BRING OUT VICTIMS BUT HE HAD GOTTEN AN
ASSIGNMENT
HE HAD COMMANDEERED CHIEF AND SAID
NEED AN ASSIGNMENT HE GOT US AN ASSIGNMENT AND IT WAS TO FOLLOW MAYDAY THAT WAS COMINQ FROM CHIEF PICCIOTTO
FROM THE 11TH BATTALION THEY WERE TRAPPED INSIDE THE NORTH TOWER WORLD TRADE CENTER DIDNT MENTION ALSO WHEN WE WERE ON THE WAY DOWN LIKE SAID WAS PRETTY CLUELESS OF THE BUILDING BEING DOWN AND SOME OF THE THINGS DO REMEMBER WERE THE MAYDAYS ONE OF THE GUYS WAS SAYING HE WAS IN THE RIG DONT KNOW HOW MUCH LONGER AM GOING TO BE ABLE TO BREATHE YOU HEARD LOT OF COMMOTION ON THE RADIO
IM IN THE RIG HE SAID THAT HE WAS IN THE
RIG
TH GUYS WAS SAYING WAS IN TH RIG THINK HE EVEN GAVE THE COMPANY AND WHERE HE WAS DONT REMEMBER ALL THE INFORMATION JUST
11
GOING

SUDEN
REMEMBER THERE WAS LOT OF SCREAMING AND LOT OF YOU KNEW IT WAS BAD
SO NOW AT THIS TIME HOOKED BACK UP WITH THE LIEUTENANT IT WAS THE ORIGINAL CREW MATT LONG
FRANK MACCHIA ME AND MIKE REGAN WHO WERE ORIGINALLY
ON THE LINE WE ARE CREWED BACK UP WITH THESE GUYS AND
THERE WAS ALSO IT WAS LITTLE CONFUSING BECAUSE BY NOW THE RECALL THERE WAS GUYS FROM OUR COMPANY THAT
WERENT WORKING THAT DAY BUT THEY WERE ALSO WITH US THEY SOMEHOW WE FOUND EACH OTHER YOU KNOW
NOW WE HAVE OUR QUYS EVEN MORE QUYS AND WE HAVE CHIEF FERRAN FROM THE 12TH BATTALION IS CHIEF THAT MY LIEUTENANT WHO IS ROHAN LIEUTENANT ROHAN FROM 43 REGULAR ASSIGNMENT LIEUTENANT THEY WERE LEADING THE RESCUE TO FOLLOW THE MAYDAY FERRAN HAD
DONT KNOW THE BUILDINGS BUT HE LED US BUILDING THAT BELIEVE WASNT WORLD TRADE
THINKING THE NEXT DAY THOUGHT MAYBE IT WAS PART OF THE OUTSKIRTS BUT IT COULDNT HAVE BEEN FROM
THE WAY THE PANCAKING AND BEING BACK THERE
SO WE ARE FROM ANOTHER BUILDING WE WENT DOWN
AND TH KN WHTH TRAD WAS AT WASNT FAMILIAR WITH IT BUT WE WENT DOWN AN ESCALATOR AND CAME TO SHOPPING MALL AREA LIKE CONCOURSE OR WHATEVER
LED US
THROUGH CENTER
12

SUDEN
AND REMEMBER PASSING THESE STORES AND REMEMBER WALKING AND THINKING THERE IS WALL WE SAW SOME MORE ESCALATORS THAT WENT DOWN AND UP AFTER WE CROSSED THIS LONG HALLWAY AS BEST AS CAN RECALL
REMEMBER AT FIRST THINKING WELL THERE IS WALL RUNNING INTO IT BUT AFTER LOOKING AT IT
REALIZED IT WAS BIG SECTION OF THE CEILING THAT JUST
LIKE LEANED TO AND COLLAPSED LIKE IT ONLY COLLAPSED DOWN AND IT WAS RESTING RIGHT ON THE BOTTOM OF THE
ESCALATORS SO THERE WAS THIS BIG SLAP OF CONCRETE AND YOU COULDNT JUST WALK YOU HAD TO QO UNDER THIS SLAB FROM THE CEILING TO GET INTO THE ESCALATOR STAIRS AND WE WERE LOOKING AT EACH OF THEM LOOKING FOR VICTIMS
AND ALSO THE MAIN OBJECTIVE WAS LIKE SAID FERRAN HAD RADIO CONTACT WITH PICCIOTTO WHO WAS TRAPPED SOMEWHERE IN THE NORTH TOWER AND THATS WHAT WE WERE EN ROUTE TO
SOME GUYS GOT SEPARATED WE FOUND SOME INJURED GUYS DONT REMEMBER EVERYTHING THAT WENT ON REMEMBER MY BIG OBJECTIVE WAS JUST TO STAY WITH THE LIEUTENANT AT THIS POINT SO WAS PRETTY MUCH
STICKING WITH HIM AND GUYS
OUT SOME MORE PEOPLE SO WE GOT LITTLE SEPARATED SOME RESCUES WERE GOING ON BUT FERRAN AND ROHAN AND
GU TH BR
13

SUDEN
ME WE WERE GOING OUT ON TO THE RUBBLE AND WHO ELSE FOLLOWED PICCIOTTO HAD BULL HORN HE HAD SIREN SO NOT ONLY WAS HE MAKING RADIO CONTACT BUT HE WOULD SAY OKAY IM GOING TO HIT THIS SIREN NOW MAYBE YOU CAN HEAR ABOUTS WHERE AM
IT HAD TO BE HUNDREDS OF YARDS AWAY BUT BY
THE TIME WE GOT UP AND CLIMBED UP LITTLE BIT AND KNEW
WHICH WAY ONE TOWER WAS WE DID START TO HEAR THE
SIREN BUT IT WAS SUCH AN OPEN AREA THAT WE WERENT SURE IF IT WAS COMING IT SEEMED LIKE IT WAS COMING FROM THE LEFT OR STRAIQHT AHEAD WE WERENT SURE AND TO THE RIGHT OF US WHATEVER BUILDING IT WAS IM NOT SURE THERE WAS REALLY GOOD FIRE GOING
VISIBILITY WAS REALLY LOW REMEMBER WE KEPT SAYING TO EACH OTHER WOW LOOK AT THE INAUDIBLE
BUILDING
WOULD THINK SO WOULD THINK THAT WOULD
PROBABLY BE IT BEFORE IT FELL REMEMBER IT WAS BAD AND IM GOING TO GET TO POINT WHERE WE CAME BACK THAT
WAY ON THE WAY UP WE COULDNT EVEN GO THAT WAY THATS HOW BAD THE FIRE WAS BUT BY THE TIME WAS
BACK IT WAS THAN
FLOORS JUST FULLY INVOLVED ROLLING
ANYWAY WE HEAR THIS BULL HORN AND SOME GUYS
14

SUDEN
GOT SEPARATED SO BY NOW ITS FERRAN AND SOME OF OUR GUYS ARE STILL THERE BUT ULTIMATELY WHAT HAPPENED WAS
ME LIEUTENANT ROHAN JIMMY LANZA TOMMY CORRIGAN
THATS THE OF OUR GUYS ROHAN ME TOMMY CORRIGAN AND JIMMY LANZA WERE THE GUYS THAT CONTINUED ON
GOING TO GO
REMEMBER FERRAN ASKING US TO STICK TIGHT AND WAS QETTINQ SOMEWHAT INSUBORDINATE BUT DIDNT
WANT TO GET CUT OFF FROM GOING AND MAKING THE PUSH SO REMEMBER WALKING AHEAD AND LIKE KIND OF JUST KEEP MY
BACK TURNED TO HIM BECAUSE KNEW ROHAN AND THE GUYS WE WANTED TO GO BUT THINK IT PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BEEN DEEMED TOO DANGEROUS TO DO BUT LIKE SAID YOU HEAR YOUR BROTHER CALLING
SO AT ONE POINT FERRAN THINK WAS GOING TO CUT IT OFF BUT WALKED FAR ENOUGH AHEAD AND GOT THROUGH ONE OF THE BIG PIECES OF STEEL THAT WERE STILL
REMEMBER WE HAD RADIO CONTACT SO REMEMBER
REALLY WAS CHOMPING AT THE BIT TO GET TO THIS GUY FEELING LIKE YOU ARE GOING TO DO SOMETHING GOOD NOW WE ARE
RESEMBLING
PIECES OF BOTTOM
TRADE CENTER THERE WAS VERY LITTLE THAT
ANYTHING ANY BUT TH BIG STEEL WITH LIKE AN HOURGLASS SHAPE ON THE GOT THROUGH THAT AND GUESS THATS AT THE
15

SUDEN
POINT WHERE FERRAN SAID LET SOME OF US GO AND CONTINUE THROUGH
WE ALL GOT TOGETHER AND KEPT GOING LOST TRACK OF TIME DONT KNOW HOW LONG THAT TOOK
EITHER THAT HAD TO BE GOOD LITTLE WHILE MAYBE AN HOUR OF HIKING AND FOLLOWING THIS BULL HORN STILL IT
WAS ALL CRATERS AND BEAMS AND WHAT NOT NOT THAT WE
LOST BUT WE SEPARATED FROM THE ORIGINAL AMOUNT OF GUYS SO NOW ITS US AND WE ARE WALKING TOWARDS IT AND REMEMBER IT WOULD HAVE AT ONE POINT BEEN AN EASIER PATH TO QO TOWARDS OUR RIQHT BUT BEINQ BUILDINQ
THAT MUST HAVE BEEN BUILDING IM GUESSING WITH THAT FIRE WE DECIDED TO STAY AWAY FROM THAT BECAUSE
THINGS WERE JUST CRACKLING FALLING AND WHAT NOT
SO WE DECIDED TO GO STRAIGHT AND WHICH KIND
OF MADE US LIKE GO DOWN CRATERS AND UP AFTER CLIMBING
BEAMS FOR WHILE AS WE GOT CLOSER HE WAS
SEES LIGHT AND WE ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT
IS STILL HE SAYS HE SEES LIGHT AND THINGS
STARTING TO CLEAR UP LITTLE BIT HE WAS
DAYLIGHT HE HAD STARTED TO MENTION HE WAS SEEING DAYLIGHT WAS AH LITTLI AND AT POINT WE ASKED HIM DO YOU SEE ANYTHING THAT RESEMBLES ANYTHING
16
SAYING HE HE WHERE HE
ARE SEEING

SUDEN
WE ASKED HIM THERE WAS ANOTHER WALL AHEAD THAT RESEMBLED GUESS LIKE SAID THE HOURGLASS
THERE WAS ANOTHER PIECE OF STEEL THERE AND WE SAID DO YOU SEE THAT HE SAID YES ITS RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME
SO WE KNEW HE WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT LOOKING AT
IT TOWARDS US WE WERE THERE SO WE SAID WE ARE
ALMOST THERE GUESS IT WAS COMFORTING LIKE HE KNEW WE WERE COMING AND SO WE HAD AN IDEA THE BULL HORN WAS COMING IN CLEARER NOW
SO WENT AHEAD WHEN GOT THROUGH THAT
STEEL AND UP LITTLE FURTHER SAW THROUQH AND THE SMOKE WAS MOVING LIKE CLOUDS SO ONE SECOND YOU WOULD SEE LITTLE BETTER AND REMEMBER YELLING BACK AND SAYING SEE THEM THE FIRST PERSON SAW WAS
CIVILIAN AND WHERE THEY WERE WAS AT THE HIGHEST POINT
IN THE RUBBLE OF WHAT WAS LEFT OF THE STAIRWELL
WERE IN THINK HE SAID IT WAS THE STAIRWELL IM NOT SURE THAT WAS THE HIGHEST POINT OF THE RUBBLE AND THE ONLY THING THAT THE ONLY VOID ABOVE THE TOP OF THE PILE AND THATS WHERE THEY WERE PICCIOTTO THE CHIEF WAS IN LIKE UNDER THE CEILING UNDER THE VERY
THAT WHICH WAS JUST RUBBLI PANCAK STAIR SLABS THE LANDINGS OF THE STAIRWELL
YOU COULD SEE STRAIGHT THROUGH THE STAIRS BUT
17
THEY

SUDEN
LIKE SAID THE FIRST THING DIDNT EVEN SEE THEM THE FIRST THING SAW WITH THE CLOUDS AND THROUGH THE SMOKE WAS THIS CIVILIAN AND REMEMBER SAYING
THOUGHT IT WAS FIREMAN ONE OF THE GUYS
INAUDIBLE HE WAS SITTING ON TOP OF THE PILE WITH POLE OR PROBABLY WHAT WAS THE STAND PIPE COMING OUT AT
AN ANGLE HE WAS KIND OF HOLDING ON TO THAT READY TO SLIDE OFF THE TOP OF THAT
REMEMBER YELLING FROM 30 YARDS AWAY HEY SEE YOU HAVE PERSONAL ROPE IN MY POCKET DONT
WORRY WILL QIVE IT TO YOU YOU CAN
ABLE TO SLIDE DOWN THEN STARTED TO SEE
AND THOSE GUYS AM LIKE HEY THEN AS
REALIZE IM TALKING TO CHARLEY AND REALIZE THAT THAT
CIVILIAN SO IM NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO GIVE
GUY IS
HIM ROPE HE IS NOT GOING TO BE ABLE HE DOESNT
HARNESS LIKE WE WEAR OR WHATEVER TOLD HIM TO
HAVE
SIT TIGHT WE WILL WHATEVER SOMETHING WILL COME
LADDER OR
ROPE
PICCIOTTO IN THE MEANTIME THEY WERE SHOOK
UP THERE WAS HIM AND FEW OTHER GUYS STANDING THERE
LAT AND THERE
PICCIOTTO
LIARN MANY
WAS COUPLE OF CIVILIANS IN PASSED ME ROPE THERE WAS
AND WH WAS WH THERE TOO BUT
BIG CRATER IN
18
YOU WILL BE PICCIOTTO
GET CLOSER

SUDEN
FRONT OF THEM THEY WERE ON THE STAIRWELL IT BECAME ALMOST LIKE BALCONY FOR THEM BECAUSE THE WALL WAS
BLOWN OUT ON THE FRONT SIDE WHILE WAS LOOKING AT THEM THERE WAS BIG HOLE THERE SO THEY WERE RELUCTANT TO START MOVING OUT OF THERE BY THEMSELVES AND YOU COULDNT SEE
THINGS WERE STARTING TO GET LITTLE BETTER WHEN WE GOT SO HE PASSES ME ROPE AND IM SPOTTING
HIM AND THEY ARE COMING OUT OVER THAT HOLE BY THIS TIME MY LIEUTENANT AND THE OTHER GUYS COME UP AND MY LIEUTENANT TOLD ME THAT THESE QUYS THAT WERE ABLE TO WALK LEAD THEM OUT BRING THEM BACK TO WHERE WE WERE
AS IT TURNS OUT THERE WAS AN INJURED
CIVILIAN REMEMBER THE BLACK LADY
HER AND REMEMBER PICCIOTTO SAYING
CONTACT WITH THE SECOND BATTALION
THAT WAS IMPORTANT TO HIM HE WAS SAYING HE HAD BEEN SPEAKING TO THE CHIEF WHOSE NAME WAS PRUNTY FROM THE SECOND BATTALION IN FLOORS BELOW WHO LATER ON DIED HE DIDNT MAKE IT OUT
HIM SAYING THAT BUT AS IT TURNS
OUT THERE WAS PORT AUTHORITY COP WHO THOUGHT WAS AN ESU COP AT THE TIME NOT IMPORTANT BUT HE WAS ABLE
REMEMBER SEEING THAT HAVE
HES HURT BAD
19

THERE WAS
START GOING OUT WITH PICCIOTTO
SUDEN
TO CLIMB AND WALK PICCIOTTO WAS ABLE TO CLIMB AND WALK REMEMBER THEM ASKING ME HOW IS THE WALK
SAID ITS ROUGH CLIMBING BUT WE CAN DO IT WE ARE GOING TO GET OUT OF HERE KNOW THE WAY BACK OUT MY LIEUTENANT ASKED ME TO GO BACK OUT THAT WAY
SO STARTED LITTLE
BIT OF CONGA LINE AND
TRUCK REMEMBER SO AND THINK THE GUYS NAME WAS DAVE LYNN THE PORT AUTHORITY COP THEY WERE
COUPLE OF GUYS FROM
THE CLOSEST TO ME AND WE ARE MAKING LINE AND IM AHEAD AND IM QOINQ BACK OUT SHOWINQ THEM THE WAY OUT THAT CAME IN
SO AS IM GOING BACK THAT FIRE THAT WAS ON
MY RIGHT IS NOW ON MY LEFT IM BACKTRACKING AND THAT FIRE IS REALLY GOING AND ON THE HIKE TOWARDS THERE WE
PUT DOWN OUR MASKS WHICH AT THIS POINT STARTED TO REALIZE MAYBE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN GOOD THING IF WE HAD THIS MASK ON THE WAY BACK BUT THEN AGAIN BETWEEN THE FIRE AND ABOUT HALFWAY WHEN WAS ON THE WAY BACK
GOT RADIO CALL FROM THE GUYS THAT WE LEFT AND IT WAS JOHNNY COLON THE CHAUFFEUR OF 43 WHO WAS EFFECTING
DIFF
HE HAD CALLED ME AND SAID HEY JERRY DONT
WAS CARRYING UT
TRY AND GET BACK OUT THE WAY YOU WENT IN WHICH WAS
20

SUDEN
BIG HEADS UP MOVE BECAUSE HE SAID THAT BUILDING WAS ROLLING ON TOP OF THE BUILDING THAT WE WERE PASSING
THAT BUILDING WAS ON FIRE AND LIKELY TO COLLAPSE MORE TOO
BETWEEN PICCIOTTO ASKING ME ARE YOU SURE WE CAN GET OUT THIS WAY BECAUSE IT REALLY DIDNT LOOK GOOD
WITH THAT FIRE AND MY GUY TELLING ME THAT YOU BETTER NOT BECAUSE OF THE AREA WHERE WE CRAWLED IN WAS
UNATTAINABLE NOW TOO SAID TO
WAS QUESTIONING THE WHOLE TIME ARE RIQHT WE ARE QOINQ TO FIND
PICCIOTTO FINALLY WHO
SAID YES GUESS YOU DIFFERENT WAY SO
WE STARTED GOING BACK THE OTHER WAY
WOULD THAT BE TOWARDS WEST STREET
THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN BACK TOWARDS WHAT KNOW IS THE WINTER GARDEN BECAUSE WILL TELL YOU IN
MINUTE
HERES THE WINTER GARDEN OVER HERE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF WEST STREET
SO INSTEAD OF GOING BACK LIKE BACKTRACKING THE WAY WE CAME IN KIND OF WAS TRYING TO THE BEST
THINK WENT AS THE CROW FLIES THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION STRAIGHT UT TH TH WAY BACK PAST TH STAIRW
WHERE THEY ORIGINALLY CAME OUT MAYBE NOT TO TOUCH IT BUT TO THE RIGHT OF IT BELIEVE IT WAS AND OUT THAT
21

SUDEN
WAY AND IT WAS GOOD WHILE GOING BACK THAT WAY BEFORE WE REALLY KNEW WHAT WAS EVEN THERE WHAT WE WERE GOING
TO SEE IF WE WERE GOING TO GET OUT WHAT WAS THERE SO AFTER GOING PAST THE STAIRWELL AND WE
REALIZED THAT THAT WAS BETTER WAY OUT WE WENT DOWN REMEMBER ANOTHER CRATER HOWEVER MANY YARDS IT WAS
HUNDREDS OF YARDS ALL TOGETHER BUT DOWN TO THE
CRATER WHEN
SAW FIREFIGHTERS AND IT WAS CLEAR ENOUGH TO SEE THAT WE ARE QOINQ TO QET OUT THIS WAY NOW
THERE WAS GUYS WITH HOSE LINES BUT THEY WERE STILL HUNDREDS OF YARDS DOWN NO ONE WAS REALLY AT
THIS POINT KNOW THERE WAS CHIEFS DOWN THERE
LEARNED LATER THAT WERE TELLING THE GUYS NOT TO GO TOO FAR INTO THE RUBBLE TRYING TO SOME GUYS EVENTUALLY DID IT WAS FUNNY THAT THE FIRST GUYS SAW ON THE WAY OUT WERE GUYS FROM OUR COMPANY FROM THE ENGINE
COMPANY
ANYWAY SO WHEN YELLED BACK TO PICCIOTTO SAID CHIEF WE ARE GOING TO GET OUT THIS WAY RELAX TH AND DAV AND TH GUYS THINKING AT THAT POINT NEED DRINK WANT TO GET BACK TO MY LIEUTENANT WHO TOLD ME HE IS GOING TO STAY WITH THE
GUYS
WHEN FINALLY REACHED CERTAIN POINT SAW CAME BACK UP HILL ITS ALL BEAMS SAW
22

SUDEN
INJURED CIVILIAN WHO WAS BLACK LADY HOWEVER MUCH IM SKIPPING
THE GIST OF IT IS FROM THERE PICCIOTTO WAS GOOD THOSE GUYS WERE GOOD WE KNEW WE WERE GETTING OUT PICCIOTTO SAID GO AND WENT AND TRIED TO GET DRINK THE FIRST THING DID WAS AS GOT DOWN MORE
YARDS GOT DOWN WAYS THEY WERE TRYING TO MOVE IN WITH LINE AND TOOK DRINK OUT OF THE NOZZLE
THINKING COULD GET REFRESHED ENOUGH THAT WAY TO GO BACK AND DO SOME GOOD WITH MY LIEUTENANT AGAIN KNEW
WE WERE QOINQ TO BE WORKINQ ON THE SECOND BATTALION AND WHOEVER ELSE MIGHT BE IN THERE
REMEMBER TRYING TO CALL HIM AND COULDNT REACH HIM GUESS BECAUSE WHAT THEY WERE DOING
WHAT FOUND OUT LATER WHAT THEY WERE DOING WAS GOING DOWN LOWER THROUGH CONFINED SPACES UNDER THAT STAIRWELL TO FIND GUYS WHO WERE DOWN THERE TO FIND THE SECOND BATTALION CHIEF SO COULDNT REACH HIM
THE SALTWATER DRANK OUT OF THE NOZZLE DID ME WORSE THAN GOOD SO WOUND UP WALKING OUT UNTIL
COULD FINALLY GET SOMETHING TO DRINK AND IN THAT WINTER
GARD JUST GRABB TH SPRITZ HIT NUMB
DRINK OF WHAT GUESS WAS UP AND WHEN WAS WALKING
ON MY WAY BACK IN NOW AFTER DRINKING ABOUT GALLON OF
23

IN
WENT STRAIGHT OUT AS SOON AS SPOKE TO TODD GUESS HE WAS WITH FERRAN WHO ORIGINALLY STARTED THE
SUDEN
UP WHEN WAS WALKING ON THE WAY HACK IN STARTED GETTING RADIO TRANSMISSION FROM ONE OF THE GUYS THAT
WE LEFT WHO WAS ORIGINALLY ON THE RIG HAD BELIEVE THE IRONS POSITION TODD FROM MY COMPANY TODD FREDERICKS ON
HE IS CALLING ME SAYING JERRY WHERE ARE YOU SAID LISTEN DIDNT GO OUT THE WAY CAME
PUSH TO FOLLOW THE MAYDAY FOR PICCIOTTO SO FERRAN
MUST HAVE TOOK HIS RADIO RIQHT AWAY QUESS THEY HAD BEEN TRYING TO REACH ME FOR WHILE ANYBODY OF US THE ORIGINAL FIVE SO FERRAN TOOK IT AND STARTS TALKING TO ME AND SAYS WHERE ARE YOU SAID WELL DIDNT GO OUT THE WAY WENT IN WENT STRAIGHT THE
DIRECTION HE SAID WELL WHERE ARE YOU
LEAD RESCUE TEAM TO GET IN THERE BECAUSE
ABOUT THE INJURED CIVILIAN MY LIEUTENANT STAYING
THERE THE SECOND BATTALION CHIEF PROBABLY BEING IN TROUBLE FROM WHAT PICCIOTTO SAID
GUESS WAS JUST SAYING LOT OF THINGS
SH HAV JUST HIM WAS THAT
WHAT WAS
AS WALKED OUT MORE PAST THESE PEOPLE HAD TOLD RESCUE COMPANIES REMEMBER SEEING THE CAPTAIN OF
24
OPPOSITE WANT TO
TOLD HIM

SUDEN
RESCUE EVEN AND HIM GRILLING ME WHEN
GRILLING ME EVEN FURTHER WHERE THERE THAT STAIRWELL YOU SEE BEAM COMING
SO YOU GOT TO GET YOUR GUYS UP THERE THERE IS GUY REMEMBER
25
TOLD HIM HIM SAID YES
OUT ON AN ANGLE
WAS DESCRIBING AND WAS JOKING SAID YOU GOT CIVILIAN ON THE TOP
OF THAT PILE HANGING ON FLAG POLE JUST BEING
DRAMATIC DESCRIBING IT THATS REALLY WHAT IT SEEMED LIKE THAT GUY WOULD LOVE TO MEET HIM SOME DAY
SAID YOU GOT AN INJURED CIVILIAN IN THE STAIRWAY YOU QOT MY LIEUTENANTS BACK DOWN THERE SUPPOSEDLY THE SECOND BATTALION IS IN SO TOLD RESCUE GUYS AND
TOLD EVERYBODY WAS TRYING TO GATHER GUYS TO GO BACK THATS WHERE YOU GOT TO GO IT SEEMED LIKE NOBODY WAS REALLY MAKING IT THAT FAR BUT ACTUALLY REMEMBER SEEING KEVIN JOOS AND KEVIN TOOREY AND AL SCHICKLER THINK THEY WERE LIKE THE FIRST GUYS AS FAR AS TOWARDS THAT STAIRWELL AND THEY ARE FROM 53 ENGINE AND TOLD THEM WHERE TO GO TOO
WHAT COULD HAVE TOLD FERRAN LOOKING BACK EVERYONE MADE MISTAKES AND EVERYONE WISHED WE COULD
SH HAV HIM
SAID THE CAPTAIN OF RESCUE BUT HE WAS BEING REALLY
HAV BUT
PUT SOME GUYS ON THE TRIP TO WHERE TO GO COULD HAVE
ALR

TRYING
SUDEN
DEMANDING AND WAS TRYING TO DESCRIBE WHERE WAS HE KEPT ASKING WELL WHERE ARE YOU WHAT DO YOU SEE
SAID WENT STRAIGHT PAST WHERE WENT AND IM THINKING TO MYSELF THERE IS NO STREET SIGNS AROUND HERE AND IM
NOT TO TRANSMISSION
BE INSUBORDINATE BUT THINK AT THE LAST MADE HAD OFFERED TO GO OUT PAST
DID TO GET DRINK FOLLOWED THE LINE
BECAUSE WHAT
OUT TO WHAT YOU THOUGHT WOULD BE STREET EVENTUALLY
BUT DEAD STOPPED IN THIS BAR IN THE WINTER GARDEN
GRABBED
BOARD AND WENT BACK OUT
WENT BACK OUT PAST THAT BAR AND TOLD THEM
SEE MARINA IF YOU WANT ME TO WAIT HERE YOU KNOW REMEMBER SAYING THAT SEE BOATS REMEMBER HIM
SAYING BOATS WHERE ARE BOATS EVENTUALLY WOUND UP TELLING HIM DONT KNOW WHERE THE FUCK AM IM
GOING TO BACK TO INAUDIBLE
WAITED ABOUT AS LONG AS COULD SAID
GUYS ARE ON IT HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GATHER GUYS UP TRIED TO DESCRIBE IT AS BEST AS COULD WALKED
BACK REMEMBER WHEN GOT BACK TO WHERE THE CAPTAIN OF RESCUE WAS AND WAS GOING TO GO BACK IN
TH CAPTAIN
UP THERE THAT WE ARE GOING TO POSSIBLY HAVE TO GET OUT
SO DONT GO
26
GUYS

SUDEN
HESITATED ABOUT SECOND AND TURNED MY BACK ON HIM AND IM GOING TO GO LIKE SAID AND STICK WITH THE LIEUTENANT WAS LITTLE UPSET WE GOT SEPARATED
COUPLE OF TIMES WENT BACK MADE IT LITTLE
SIDE STEP WENT BACK DOWN ROLLED BACK UP TO THEM BY THE TIME GOT UP THERE THEY HAD THE BLACK LADY ON STOKES THEY WERE RESCUE GUYS THEY HAD THE GUY
DOWN SOME OF THE RESCUE GUYS THAT GOT THERE LATER HAD EFFECTED GETTING THAT GUY DOWN WITH ROPE
THE STAIRWELL WAS FILLED WITH COUPLE OF RESCUE QUYS AND MY LIEUTENANT WENT BACK TO THIS STAIRWELL THEN YOU HAD TO GO AROUND IT TO THE OTHER SIDE TO GET BACK IN IT THROUGH THAT HOLE ANYWAY THEY WERE DOWN
WHAT POINT ARE WE AT NOW
AFTER PICCIOTTO IS OUT AND THE PORT AUTHORITY COP AND THE GUYS FROM TRUCK THE GUYS THAT WERE ABLE TO WALK OUT AT FIRST WHAT FOUND OUT LATER WAS THAT MY LIEUTENANT HELPED GET THERE WAS GUYS FROM 39
ENGINE AND 16 TRUCK AND DONT KNOW ALL THE NAMES AND EVENTUALLY WE WILL ALL TALK WITH EACH OTHER GUESS
BUT TH TRAPP AND HAD
WALL TO HELP THEM GET OUT OF THE CONFINED SPACE BELOW
AND STAIRWELLS
27
BR

SUDEN
AT THIS POINT THAT WAS DONE THOSE GUYS
WALKED OUT THEY FOLLOWED THE CONGA LINE WHATEVER THERE WAS ENOUGH GUYS THERE TO LEAD EVERYBODY OUT
WHEN GOT BACK THE ONLY THING THAT WAS BEING DONE NOW WAS UNFORTUNATELY CHIEF PRUNTY OF THE SECOND BATTALION WAS DEAD NOW WE HADNT HAD PULSE ON HIM FROM WHAT LEARNED FROM THE GUYS FOR WHILE WE WERE TRYING TO EFFECTIVELY GET HIM OUT OF CONFINED SPACE
FOUND OUT LATER THAT MARK CARPINIELLO HAD WENT DOWN COUPLE OF CONFINED SPACES TO FIND THIS
QUY WHEN WE FOUND HIM MY LIEUTENANT WHEN WENT
BACK MY LIEUTENANT MARK CARPINIELLO JIMMY LANZA
MARK CARPINIELLO IS FROM 53 ENGINE HE IS THE GUY THAT
WAS THERE ON HIS OWN TIME HE IS ALSO ONE OF THE FIRST
GUYS THAT CAME UP JIMMY LANZA GUY FROM RESCUE THINK HIS NAME WAS DAVE REAL NICE GUY THE GUY FROM
RESCUE GUESS SET UP HIGH ANGLE THING AND WAS TRYING TO MOVE THIS GUY NOW SO EVERYONE THAT WAS ALIVE AND AMBULATORY AND EVEN THAT WAS NOT ABLE TO WALK BUT THAT WAS ALIVE THEY GOT THE ONE LADY OUT ON STRETCHER
ON TH GUYS FR TRUCK WH FIRST STARTED WALKING OUT THE REASON PRUNTY ASKED ME HOW IS THE CLIMBING IS THIS GUY FROM TRUCK PRUNTY
28

SUDEN
EVEN KNEW HE HAS GOT CONCUSSION HE GOT HIT IN THE HEAD BAD BUT THEY WERE ABLE TO HOLD HIM AND WALK HIM OUT AND HE WAS FOLLOWING BEHIND THAT WAS WHAT WAS LEFT TO DO
WENT DOWN THERE WAS ASKING GIVE ME SHOT MAYBE CAN LIFT THIS GUY UP WE HAD THE ROPE WE WERE TRYING TO GET HIM OUT OF THIS CONFINED SPACE
BUT THE THING IS EVEN AFTER WE GOT HIM OUT OF THAT
WE KNEW THERE WAS TWO MORE REALLY TIGHT SPOTS TO GET THROUGH DOWN THE HALLWAY AND THEN BACK UP WE ACTUALLY CRAWLED UP SLAB OF STAIRS THAT WAS ACTUALLY ON AN ANGLE THAT WAS THE SLAB THAT WAS DOWN FLOOR OR TWO FROM THE ORIGINAL STAIRWELL THAT PRUNTY WALKED OUT OF IT WAS BELOW GRADE WHAT WAS THERE THE PILE WHERE THE STAND PIPE WAS THERE WAS FEW REALLY TIGHT AREAS TO GET THIS GUY OUT THAT WE WENT THROUGH WE HAD TO CLIMB HIGH TO GET BETWEEN TWO DOOR JAMS AND THINK THE DOOR JAMS WERE ABOUT THE ONLY THING HOLDING THAT PLACE UP WHERE PRUNTY WAS WE WOULD HAVE HAD TO GET
HIM OUT OF THAT SPOT AND THEN LIFT HIM HIGH ENOUGH TO GET HIM BETWEEN THOSE DOORS AND THEN ANOTHER HOLE AND
HAV HAPPY ALL THAT BUT
BEING TOLD FOR WHILE AFTER WAS BACK AND THINK
SPACE
THEY WERE TELLING ME EVEN BEFORE
GOT BACK WE GOT TO
29

SUDEN
GET OUT OF HERE BECAUSE ITS STILL SHIFTING AND ITS SMOKY AND THINGS ARE STILL CLANGING FALLING AROUND
DID COLLAPSE YET
HASNT COLLAPSED YET WE WERE BEING TOLD
BY GUESS EVERYBODY WAS BEING LITTLE
INSUBORDINATE THAT DAY EVERYONE WANTED TO DO AS MUCH
AS THEY COULD BUT WE WERE TOLD MINUTES DONT KNOW HOW MANY TIMES IT WAS LONG WHILE BEFORE WE GAVE UP AND WE FINALLY CAME TO THE CONCLUSION AND THE RESCUE
GUY AGREED WE ALL AGREED ITS IRRETRIEVABLE ITS
NOT RESCUE REQRET TO SAY WE LEFT HIM THERE KNOWING THAT WE WOULD GET HIM EVENTUALLY AND HEARD THAT THEY GOT HIM OUT COUPLE OF DAYS LATER THANKS TO THE INFORMATION WE TOLD HIM WHERE HE WAS
OKAY PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING TAPE ENDS
30

FILE NO 9110024
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT SORAYA ODONNELL
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 10 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELIZABETH SANTAMARIA

SORAYA ODONNELL
LIEUTENANT FELLER TODAYS DATE IS
OCTOBER 10 2001 THE TIME NOW IS 808 HOURS AND THIS IS LIEUTENANT MONTE FELLER OF THE
NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT INVESTIGATIONS AND TRIALS AM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME RANK AND
ASSIGNMENT
EMT SORAYA ODONNELL
OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT WE ARE CONDUCTING THE INTERVIEW OF BATTALION 52 IN FLUSHING REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001
ALSO FOR THE RECORD CAN YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME
MR QUEVEDO INVESTIGATOR QUEVEDO OF THE BUREAU OF INVESTIGATIONS AND TRIALS
BASICALLY WHAT WE NEED YOU TO DO IS JUST GIVE US SCENARIO OF THE EVENTS ON THE MORNING OF SEPTEMBER 11 AS IT RELATES TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER INCIDENT
COME IN AT 900 OCLOCK WAS ON MY WAY IN WAS DRIVING UP TO THE BATTALION MY
PARTNER RAN TO MY CAR AND TOLD ME THAT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WAS HIT BY PLANE AND PARKED THE CAR

SORAYA ODONNELL
AND THEN HE TOLD ME THAT TOUR WHO WAS SITTING AT
THE GARAGE GOT THE JOB SO RAN UPSTAIRS GOT MY EQUIPMENT AND WE USUALLY TAKE THEIR LATE JOB WE
JUMPED ON AND WE WENT 63 WE NEVER LOGGED OFF TOUR
ONE BECAUSE THEY WERE ALREADY 63 SO YOU CANT LOG OFF SO WE WENT AS TOUR WE CALLED WE TRIED
TO CALL RCC QUEENS TO LET THEM KNOW WHERE WE WERE FROM BUT IT WAS TOO BUSY
SO WE CALLED TO LET THE LIEUTENANT KNOW THAT WE
WERE TOUR
WERE
GOING TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WHO WAS YOUR PARTNER THAT DAY
RICHARD
DID YOU KNOW WHO THE EMTS WERE THAT YOU
ERDY
THAT WE TOOK THE JOB FOR IT WAS REBECCA BIRD AND BRIAN HARM HE IS NEW GUY
DO YOU KNOW IF THEY RESPONDED TO THE CALL NO THEY DIDNT THEY WENT HOME
YOU SAID THAT YOU CALLED HOW DID YOU
CALL
WE CALLED ON THE CELL PHONE WE CALLED RCC AND WE CALLED THE QUEENS DISPATCHER WHILE WE
WERE 63 THE DISPATCHER TOLD US TO RESPOND TO TO GO TO CITYWIDE SHE TOLD US TO RESPOND TO THE

SORAYA ODONNELL
59TH STREET BRIDGE AND ONCE WE WERE THERE SHE WOULD TELL US WHERE TO GO SO TOOK THE LIE THERE WAS
LOT OF TRAFFIC TOOK THE GRAND CENTRAL TO THE LAST EXIT GOT OFF AT 21ST STREET TOOK THAT TO THE 59TH STREET BRIDGE TOLD THE DISPATCHER WAS THERE FROM THERE COULD SEE ALREADY THE SMOKE AND TRAFFIC WAS BEGINNING TO BUILD UP SHE TOLD ME TO RESPOND TO VESEY AND WEST
SO TOOK THE FDR DRIVE WAS STILL IN
LITTLE BIT OF TRAFFIC YOU KNOW IT WAS SPORADIC LIKE SOMETIMES THERE WOULD BE TRAFFIC AND THEN THE COPS WOULD HAVE SOMETHING CLOSED AND THEN IT WOULD MOVE IT WAS JUST LIKE CARAVAN OF AMBULANCES IN FRONT OF ME AND IN BACK OF ME THERE WAS WHOLE BUNCH OF AMBULANCES
GOT OFF JUST FOLLOWED THEM ALL THE WAY THERE DONT REALLY KNOW WHERE WAS BUT THEN AGAIN WE CAME TO STOP WE WERE LIKE FEW BLOCKS AWAY FROM THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WE CAME TO STOP AND IT WAS SLOWING DOWN THE CARAVAN THEN HEARD ON THE RADIO SOMEONE SAY THERE IS FIREMAN DOWN THERE IS FIREMAN DOWN ON THIS AND THIS STREET AND IM LOOKING AROUND TO SEE WHERE AM AND SEE FIREMAN TURN THE CORNER AND HES WAVING HIS HANDS

SORAYA ODONNELL
SO LOOK BEHIND ME THERE IS BUSES BEHIND
ME THERE IS BUSES IN FRONT OF ME THAT COULD EASILY GET
TO HIM BUT THEYRE NOT MOVING SO STARTED LIKE MANEUVERING MYSELF AND MADE KIND OF LIKE WHAT DO
YOU CALL IT TURN AND WENT OVER THERE WE TOOK OUT THE STRETCHER AND THEY HAD FIREMAN THEY
WAS DOING CPR
DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOU WERE AT THAT TIME
THE STREET LOCATION
THINK WAS ON WEST STREET FEW
BLOCKS OFF THE
HEADING THE
WAS HEADING NORTH YOU KNOW AS YOU COME FDR DRIVE THE TUNNEL SO THINK WAS
NORTH AND WAS COUPLE OF BLOCKS SOUTH OF
BOTH BUILDINGS WERE STILL STANDING AT THAT
TIME
YES
HAD BOTH BUILDINGS BEEN HIT AT THAT TIME YES
DID YOU SEE THE AIRPLANES HIT THE
BUILDINGS
NO NO WHEN LEFT THE BATTALION WHEN WAS 63 WE HEARD SOMEONE SAY OVER THE RADIO WE HEARD BOMB WENT OFF IN THE OTHER BUILDING WERE

SORAYA ODONNELL
NOT SURE IF ITS BOMB AND THEY WERE TRYING TO
CONFIRM ITS ANOTHER BUILDING ITS ANOTHER AIRPLANE
DO YOU KNOW APPROXIMATELY WHAT TIME YOU ARRIVED AT THAT LOCATION WHERE YOU MET UP WITH THE
FIREFIGHTER
NO BUT IN MY UNIT HISTORY WENT 82 TO
THE HOSPITAL AT 1001 BELIEVE AND THAT WAS BECAUSE THE KDT WAS BACKING UP ALSO NOTHING WAS
GOING THROUGH SO REMEMBER KEPT HITTING THE BUTTON HITTING THE BUTTON ON THE WAY TO THE
HOSPITAL ANYWAY SO WE WENT AND THEY WERE DOING CPR ON THE FIREMAN WE PUT THE LONG BOARD AND
EVERYTHING ON THE STRETCHER WE WENT OVER THERE AND WE CONTINUED TO DO CPR WE PUT HIM ON THE BUS
DR KELLY WAS THERE SHE CAME OVER AND PARAMEDIC
DONT KNOW WHO HE WAS
EMS THE FIRE DEPARTMENT
THE PARAMEDIC DONT KNOW
DO YOU KNOW WHO HE IS NO
OKAY
THEY TRIED TO INTUBATE HIM THEY COULDNT GET TUBE IN SO THEY LEFT BECAUSE THEY SAW REALLY
CAME OVER

SORAYA ODONNELL
HE WASNT GONNA BE VIABLE AND WE TRANSPORTED HIM TO
THE HOSPITAL WITH TWO OF THE FIREMEN FROM HIS COMPANY
WHICH HOSPITAL DID YOU GO TO
WE WENT TO BELLEVUE ASKED PD FOR AN
ESCORT AND HIGHWAY AND MOTORCYCLE COP GAVE ME AN ESCORT TO THE HOSPITAL
THE FIREFIGHTER THAT YOU DID CPR ON DO YOU KNOW HIS NAME
YES
WHAT WAS HIS NAME
BRIAN SUHR WAS IT BRIAN
ENGINE COMPANY
216 FROM BROOKLYN
THE FIREFIGHTERS THAT ACCOMPANIED
WERE THEY FROM THE SAME
DONT REMEMBER THEIR NAMES THE OTHER
ONE DONT KNOW
OKAY
ANYWAY WE WENT TO BELLEVUE ONCE GOT
TO BELLEVUE WE TOOK HIM OUT AND THEY TOLD ME YOU GOTTA MOVE THE BUS YOU CANT LEAVE IT THERE AND
HAD LOT OF BBP IN THE BACK SO SAID WHERE DO
GO SO SAID LET ME GO TO THE BATTALION TO BELLEVUE STATION TO CLEAN UP
YOU

SORAYA ODONNELL
WENT OVER THERE GRABBED FEW OF THE
THINGS THAT BELONGED TO THE FIREMEN BROUGHT IT TO THE HOSPITAL TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM TOLD ONE OF THE MAINTENANCE GUYS AT BELLEVUE WHAT NEEDED AND GAVE MY PARTNER THE ACR
WENT BACK STARTED CLEANING UP THE MAINTENANCE GUY WAS HELPING ME CLEAN UP HE CLEANED UP THE AMBULANCE AND RESTOCKED WENT BACK TO MEET UP WITH MY PARTNER AND HE COULDNT GET ANY INFORMATION FROM THE FIREMEN BECAUSE THEY WERE REFUSING TO GIVE US ANY NAME OR ANYTHING BECAUSE THEY DIDNT WANT THE MEDIA TO GET HOLD OF
WHICH WE UNDERSTOOD SO WE SAID FINE WE FINISHED THE PAPERWORK WE WENT BACK INTO
THE AMBULANCE WHILE WE WERE FINISHING
RESTOCKING THINK IT WAS AN EMT NUN ASKED IF SHE COULD COME BACK WITH US SHE WANTED TO VOLUNTEER WE SAID OKAY ANOTHER DOCTOR FROM THE
ER WANTED TO COME ALSO HE WAS PARAMEDIC AND PA STUDENT
THE EMT SHE WORKED FOR THE FIRE
DEPARTMENT
NO SHE WORKED FOR BELLEVUE
AS AN EMT
ANYTHING
UP

EMT
SORAYA ODONNELL
NO IT WAS NUN SHE WAS NUN
OH NUN IM SORRY THOUGHT YOU SAID
NUN SO THEY CAME IN THE BACK WITH US WE WENT BACK TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WE TOLD THE DISPATCHER WE WERE OUT OF BELLEVUE WHERE DOES SHE WANT US FORGET WHAT SHE TOLD US THINK IT WAS BATTERY PARK SHE WANTED US TO GO TO TRIAGE
WHEN WE WERE HEADING THERE MY PARTNER SAID SOMEONE TOLD ME THAT ONE OF THE TOWERS COLLAPSED
IM LIKE YEAH YEAH WE WERE LIKE ITS JOKE
THERE WERE PROBABLY PEOPLE EXAGGERATING SO WHAT HAPPENED WAS WE WERE HEADING BACK AND WE SEE JUST CLOUD OF SMOKE WE DONT SEE THE TOWERS ANYMORE
HOW DID YOU HEAD BACK THERE
WE TOOK THE SAME WAY THE FDR DRIVE
SOUTHBOUND
YES AND WE DIDNT SEE THE TOWERS SO
THATS WHEN WE REALIZED THAT THE TOWERS HAD COLLAPSED
BOTH OF THEM
BOTH OF THEM IT WAS JUST LOT OF SMOKE AND WE KEPT HEARING TRANSMISSIONS ON THE RADIO YOU
KNOW STUFF THAT WAS GOING ON PEOPLE SAYING THEY

10
THERE IT WAS WHOLE TOTALLY DIFFERENT SCENE WE DIDNT SEE PEOPLE AROUND LIKE WE DID BEFORE WE
COULDNT FIND ANY AMBULANCES WE WERE JUST DRIVING AROUND OF COURSE WE COULDNT BELIEVE WHAT WAS GOING ON WE DROVE AROUND FOR LITTLE WHILE WE SAW AN EMT ONE OF OUR GUYS COMING OUT OF THIS CLOUD OF SMOKE HE WAS HOLDING HIS EMT BAG AND HELMET WE ASKED HIM WHERE IS YOUR PARTNER HE GOES LEFT HIM IM LOOKING FOR MY FATHER HE WAS IN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
DO YOU KNOW HIS NAME
AND HE HAD BEEN CRYING NO WE DIDNT GET
ANYTHING SO WE SAID WELL WHY DONT YOU GET IN THE BACK WITH US WE HAD NUN IN THE BACK WE FIGURED SHE COULD TALK TO HIM
RIGHT
HE GOT IN THE BACK WE WENT AROUND
DONT KNOW THINK IT WAS BATTERY PARK BY THE
WATER THEY WERE FERRYING EVERYONE AWAY WE PULLED OVER OVER THERE BECAUSE WE SAW LOT OF BUSES AND
WE SAID LETS GO SEE IF THATS WHERE WE ARE
SUPPOSED TO BE WHATS GOING ON
WE WENT OVER THERE AND THINK THERE WAS ONLY
SORAYA ODONNELL
WERE TRAPPED WE HEADED BACK WHEN WE GOT BACK

SORAYA ODONNELL ONE MORE UNIT THERE
DO YOU KNOW WHICH UNIT THAT WAS NO
FIRE
DEPARTMENT
IT WAS VOLUNTEER IT WAS VOLUNTEER
THEY SAID THAT NOTHING WAS GOING ON THEY WERE JUST
SO WHEN WE WENT BACK TO THE AMBULANCE THE KID WAS GONE THE EMT LEFT SO WE
DIDNT KNOW WHERE HE WENT WE DIDNT GET NAME NOTHING
WHEN YOU SAY YOU WERE AT BATTERY PARK THAT WAS SOUTH OF THE BATTERY TUNNEL WHERE THE FORT
IS OR WHERE MARINE COMPANY IS DO YOU HAVE MAP
YES DO IF YOU CAN JUST MARK THE FIRST TIME YOU ARRIVED WHERE YOU WERE AND THE SECOND TIME
THINK DONT KNOW CANT THIS LOOKS CONFUSING TO ME WHICH IS THE NORTH TOWER
THIS WOULD BE NORTH HERE IS THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY HERE IS WEST STREET AND HERE ARE THE TOWERS
THINK IT WAS SOMEWHERE AROUND HERE
AT BATTERY PARK CITY YES
FERRYING PEOPLE
11

SORAYA ODONNELL
BY THE BUILDINGS
NO IT WASNT HERE DONT KNOW IM NOT GONNA SAY THEN WE DROVE AROUND LITTLE MORE
AND WE FOUND FIREMAN WHO WAS HURT HIS EYES WERE BLOODSHOT WE IRRIGATED HIM HE WANTED TO GO BACK BUT HE COULDNT SEE SO WE TOOK HIM BACK TO
BELLEVUE
DO YOU KNOW HIS NAME
NO DONT KNOW IT BUT GOT IT HE GAVE US HIS NAME WE GOT AN ACR
BACK
DISPATCHER
DO YOU KNOW WHAT COMPANY HE WAS IT FROM NO NO WE TOOK HIM TO BELLEVUE WE CAME
YOU WERE ABLE TO GET THROUGH TO THE
COULDNT GET ANY SIGNALS NO AND THE RADIO WAS SO BUSY COULDNT TELL HER ANYTHING SO
JUST CAME AND WENT
WHAT FREQUENCY WERE YOU ON AT THAT TIME MANHATTAN SOUTH
YOU WERE TOLD TO SWITCH OVER TO SOUTH
WE WERE TOLD TO SWITCH OVER ONLY CERTAIN
PEOPLE WERE ALLOWED TO STAY ON CITYWIDE THEN WE CAME BACK THE SAME THING WE COULDNT FIND
12

SORAYA ODONNELL
ANYONE WE TOLD THE DISPATCHER WE JUST CAME OUT OF BELLEVUE SHE TOLD US TO GO TO DONT KNOW
THINK IT WAS CHELSEA PIERS BUT WE WERE ALREADY HERE SO AS WE DIDNT KNOW DIDNT KNOW HOW TO GET TO CHELSEA PIERS SO KEPT ASKING ALL THE COPS AND THEY DIDNT KNOW
THEN RAN INTO AN OFF DUTY EMT OR PARAMEDIC
AND HE TOLD ME THEYRE SETTING UP TRIAGE CENTER AT THE STATEN ISLAND FERRY SO SAID OKAY
NO NO BEFORE EVEN RAN INTO HIM THERE WAS AN OLD MAN LEANING AGAINST FENCE HAVING DIFFICULTY
BREATHING WE PULLED OVER WE PUT HIM ON THE STRETCHER AND HIS WIFE AND WE GAVE THEM OXYGEN THATS WHEN RAN INTO THE GUY SO WE HEADED OVER THERE TO BRING THE OLD COUPLE OVER THERE
THE PERSON THAT DIRECTED YOU TO THE STATEN ISLAND FERRY DO YOU KNOW WHO THAT WAS
PARAMEDIC
DO YOU KNOW FROM WHAT AGENCY
NO NO KNOW HE WORKED FOR THE FIRE
DEPARTMENT
THE FIRE DEPARTMENT
YES
DID HE COME WITH YOU TO THE STATEN ISLAND
13

FERRY
SORAYA ODONNELL
NO BUT SAW HIM LATER LATER ON SAW HIM THERE THIS IS THE NAME OF THE OTHER FIREMAN
WE GAVE IT TO THE HOSPITAL
CAN YOU JUST READ IT
IN ARREST
TONY SANSOBINO
AND HE CAME WITH THE FIREFIGHTER
YES TO THE HOSPITAL
WHO WAS
DID YOU BRING HIM BACK TO THE SCENE OR THEY STAYED AT THE SCENE
THEY STAYED AT THE HOSPITAL
THEY STAYED AT THE HOSPITAL YES
ABOUT WHAT TIME WAS THAT DO YOU THINK
AROUND 1130 WE WENT BACK SO THEN FOUND THE STATEN ISLAND FERRY AND THERE WAS
LIEUTENANT THERE MY PARTNER KNOWS HIS NAME
FORGOT ANYWAY HE TOLD US PARK THE VEHICLE HERE GRAB YOUR 02 AND ALL YOUR WATER AND BRING IT
UPSTAIRS UPSTAIRS THEY WERE SETTING THE UP THE TRIAGE WE HELPED OUT WITH THE TRIAGE WE WERE
JUST BASICALLY WAITING WAITING FOR PATIENTS TO
COME NO ONE WAS COMING WE WERE GETTING ANTSY AND
14

15
THEY SAID NO YOU GOTTA STAY HERE SO WE JUST WAITED WE TRIED TO CALL OUR FAMILIES WHILE WE WERE
OVER THERE
DONT KNOW ABOUT WHAT TIME CHIEF BROWN BOBBY
BROWN CAME IN AND HE HAD BEEN UNDERNEATH THE RUBBLE HE CAME IN HE WAS ALL DIRTY HE USED TO
BE OUR CAPTAIN HERE SO IM LOOKING AT HIM AND
SAID OH MY GOD THATS BOBBY BROWN OH MY GOD SO WENT OVER TO HIM AND HIS EYES WE
IRRIGATED HIS EYES WE GAVE HIM WE TOOK HIS VITALS AND HE NEEDED TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL SO
SOMEONE ASKED HIM WHAT HOSPITAL HE SAID PENINSULA GENERAL THATS WHERE HIS WIFE WORKS SO MY PARTNER AND TOOK HIM TO THE HOSPITAL
WHO WAS THE SUPERVISOR AT THAT TRIAGE YOU DONT KNOW MALE FEMALE
SORAYA ODONNELL
WE SAID DO WE GO OUTSIDE AND PICK UP PATIENTS
SUPERVISORS
DONT EVEN KNOW THERE WERE COUPLE OF THERE
WHEN YOU LEFT AND WHEN YOU WERE TURNING BACK TO THE SCENE AFTER SOMEBODY TOLD THAT YOU THE
BUILDING HAD COLLAPSED BOTH BUILDINGS HAD COLLAPSED AT THAT TIME
BOTH BUILDINGS HAD COLLAPSED

SORAYA ODONNELL
BUT YOU DIDNT SEE THEM COLLAPSE
NO NO JUST SAW LOT OF SMOKE
DO YOU KNOW WHAT TIME THAT WAS ABOUT NO
DID YOU EVER ENTER ANY OF THE BUILDINGS NO
YOU NEVER HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO GO IN NO
WAS THERE ANYBODY ELSE THAT YOU SAW THAT
YOU RECOGNIZED THAT YOU COULD NAME THE EMS PEOPLE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT PEOPLE
SAW HIS NAME WILL COME HE WORKS FOR ST JOHN HE WORKS FOR THE PRIVATES ST JOHNS AND HE WAS WORKING FOR ST VINNYS WHATS HIS
NAME SAW HIM WHEN WAS DRIVING AROUND AND WE DIDNT KNOW WHERE TO GO WE LOOKED AT THE
AMBULANCES AND SAW THAT AMBULANCE SO WE PULLED
UP NEXT TO EACH OTHER AND WE SAID WHERE IS EVERYBODY AND THEY SAID WE DONT KNOW
TIME
ST VINCENTS AMBULANCE ST VINNYS AMBULANCE
DO YOU REMEMBER THE UNIT NUMBER
HIS NAME WILL COME BACK ILL TAKE MY ANYWAY
16

SORAYA ODONNELL
OKAY
SO HE WAS IN THE SAME PLACE WHERE WAS
HE DIDNT KNOW WHERE EVERYBODY WAS SO WE TOOK BOBBY BROWN TO PENINSULA GENERAL IN ROCKAWAY MY
PARTNER CAME WITH ME AND ANOTHER GIRL THAT THOUGHT WAS HIS AIDE BUT SHE WASNT SHE IS FROM DIVISION
SHES IN SICK LIMITED SHE CAME WITH US THINK SHE JUST WANTED RIDE BACK TO QUEENS OR SOMETHING
SHE WASNT INJURED SHE WASNT INJURED
YOUR PARTNER WHAT IS HIS NAME
RICHARD
HE STAYED WITH YOU THE ENTIRE TIME YES
YOU NEVER SEPARATED
WE SEPARATED AT BELLEVUE WHEN WE BROUGHT
IN THE FIREFIGHTER AND WENT TO BBP OTHER THAN THAT
THAT WAS THE ONLY TIME
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU THINK IS
IMPORTANT
YES THE FIREMAN THAT WAS IN CARDIAC ARREST WE WERE TRYING TO FIND OUT WHO HE WAS
ERDY
17

18
SORAYA ODONNELL
BECAUSE WE FELT LIKE WOW IF WE DIDNT GET FLAGGED
FOR THIS GUY WE WOULD HAVE BEEN THERE WHEN THEY
COLLAPSED SO WE KEPT READING ARTICLES AND FOUND THE REASON HE WENT INTO CARDIAC ARREST WAS BECAUSE
BODY LANDED ON HIM HIS ENGINE COMPANY PULLED
HIM THEY WERE DOING CONSTRUCTION ON THE BUILDING
THEY PULLED HIM OVER THE SCAFFOLDING SO THATS WHERE WE FOUND HIM WE FOUND HIS NAME WE FOUND
WHERE HE WAS FROM MY PARTNER SPOKE TO ANOTHER FIREMAN WHO KNOWS WE FOUND OUT THE COMPANY HE WAS FROM WE CALLED THE COMPANY AND WE WENT OVER THERE ONE DAY THE SECOND THURSDAY AFTER THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AND WE SPOKE TO ONE OF THE GUYS THAT CAME TO THE HOSPITAL WITH US AND HE TOLD US BASICALLY WHAT HAPPENED THAT WHEN WE LEFT TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL WE CLOSED THE DOORS AND WE LEFT AND THATS WHEN THE BUILDING CAME DOWN
THE OTHER TWO GUYS THAT STAYED FROM HIS COMPANY THOUGHT THAT THE AMBULANCE GOT CRUSHED SO THEY THOUGHT THAT THE THREE GUYS WERE DEAD BASICALLY AND WE WERE DEAD BECAUSE THEY SAID AS SOON AS WE TOOK OFF THE BUILDING CAME DOWN WHEN WE GOT TO THE HOSPITAL AND THEY WERE THERE FOR WHILE THATS WHEN THEY FOUND OUT THE TOWERS COLLAPSED THEY

19
SO THEY ENDED UP MEETING UP AND THEY COULDNT BELIEVE EACH OTHER WERE ALIVE THE OTHER TWO GUYS THAT WE LEFT AT THE SCENE SAID THAT THEY WENT BACK
TO GET THEIR EQUIPMENT SO THEY COULD GO BACK INTO THE BUILDING THATS WHEN THE TOWERS COLLAPSED
THEY WENT BACK UNDERNEATH THE SCAFFOLDING AND THEY RAN INTO THE BUILDING
THIS IS THE FIRST BUILDING THAT COLLAPSED OR THE SECOND DO YOU KNOW
SORAYA ODONNELL
THOUGHT THAT THE TWO GUYS THEY LEFT WERE DEAD
BECAUSE THEY LEFT THEM THERE THEY WERE ON THEIR WAY BACK TO THE BUILDING
THE FIRST
SO YOU WERE RIGHT AT THE PERIMETER OF THE
BUILDING
YES
DO YOU KNOW WHETHER YOU WERE NORTHEAST SOUTH OR WEST
HAVE NO IDEA THINK WAS NORTH
WHERE WAS THE FIREFIGHTER EXACTLY WHAT DO YOU MEAN
WHERE DID YOU FIND HIM
WE FOUND HIM THIS IS THE CORNER
THINK WAS ON WEST STREET AND HE TURNED THE CORNER
BUILDING

20
SORAYA ODONNELL
SAW HIM MADE MANEUVER CAME SO IT WAS ON
WEST STREET AND THERE WAS CHURCH AND THERE WAS LIKE SCAFFOLDING HERE THATS WHERE WE PUT HIM ON THE STRETCHER AND EVERYTHING AND THATS IT
ANYTHING ELSE
THATS IT AND WE COULDNT TRANSMIT THE
RADIOS WERE SO BUSY WE COULDNT GIVE SIGNALS AND WE COULDNT GIVE THE KDT WAS DOWN
IN OUR LOG IN OUR HISTORY WE COULDNT GET ANYTHING
YOU WERE ORIGINALLY ON QUEENS EAST YES
WHEN YOU WERE ASKED TO SWITCH OVER TO
CITYWIDE
AND THEN
AND THEN MANHATTAN SOUTH THINK IT WAS
THEY SENT US TO NORTH LIEUTENANT FELLER
INTERVIEW AND WANT TO
TIME HELPING US WITH THIS ENDEAVOR AND IT IS NOW 828 AM AND THIS WILL CONCLUDE THE INTERVIEW
THINK IT WAS SOUTH WE WILL CONCLUDE THE
THANK YOU FOR YOUR

F i l e No. 9110025
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW RICHARD ERDEY
Interview Date: October 10, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis

R. ERDEY
LIEUTENANT FEILER: Today's date is October loth, 2001. The time now is 0835 hours. This is Lieutenant Monty Feiler of the Fire Department of the City of New York, Investigations and Trials. I'm conducting an interview with the following individual:
Q. Please state your name, rank and command. A. Richard L. Erdey, EMTD, Shield No. 1569. Q. Of the New York City Fire Department,
Battalion 52, regarding the events of September llth, 2001. Also present is:
MS. QUEVEDO: Investigator Fabiola Quevedo of the Bureau of Investigations and Trials.
Q. What I need you to do, sir, is just give me a scenario of how you first became involved in the events of September llth, where you were and how you responded.
A. I was standing there at the battalion and they were calling a series of people to the job. The night tour was about to get off. They called 52 Boy. So I said, if Soraya don't come here in one minute, you guys are going out today, and this was only when the first tower was hit. I said you'll spend at least 24 hours there easy, so that's a few hundred dollars, no problem.

R . ERDEY
So Solano pulled up. I said the World Trade Center was hit by a plane. She jumped in, got everything real quick, jumped in the vehicle and we went.
Q. Did you A. No, no. Q. And the
know their names? A. Rebecca
partner with Solano?
two people that you relieved, do you
Bird and J i m Horan.
Q. Did they respond, as far as you know?
A. No.
Q. You were driving or teching? A. Teching.
Q. How did you get there?
A. By ambulance No. 377.
Q. What route did you take?
A.
Q. About what time was this?
A. 8:59.
Q. So the first plane had just hit?
A. Y es.
Q. When you were originally assigned to the
call, was this on -- which frequency was it?

R. ERDEY
A. Queens 2.
Q. That's east?
A. Queens east.
Q. Did they give you any direction?
A. No.
Q. They just told you to go down to the World
Trade Center?
A. That's right.
Q. You don't recall what route you took?
A. No, I don't.
Q. When you were entering Manhattan, did you see
the skyline? A. Yes.
Q. What did you see?
A. We saw the Twin Towers. I couldn't tell both towers were hit because the way the wind was blowing. But as we got closer, I saw both towers were hit and I said this is definitely no accident. But I didn't know another plane hit the other tower.
Q. You saw both buildings were still standing at that time?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember, were you still in Queens or in Manhattan when you saw that?

R. ERDEY
A. No.
Q. Then what happened?
A. We continued to drive down there. There was
a New York Presbyterian bus in front of us. As we were going down there, he came out a few times because it was stop-and-go traffic because the other two lanes were blocked with civilian cars. So we were discussing the best route to go to. I memorized his number, this way I'd know who he was.
Q. Which was that?
A. Right now I don't have it in my head. I tried to sweep most of the stuff away.
Q. Okay.
A. We rode down there. Then I had the idea, because I see cars were trying to jump in between us, so I got on the PA and I told people stay in your lane, this is for emergency vehicles only, because nobody else seemed to be doing that. Everybody was headed towards one focus.
Q. Were you on a highway at that point?
A. We definitely were on a highway.
Q. You were still on the Queens frequency?
A. No. I think it changed to Citywide. I don't
know when they told us to change to Manhattan south,

R . ERDEY
but we were on Citywide.
Q. How long do you think it took you to get down
to the World Trade Center?
A. No concept of time.
Q. When you arrived down at the general
vicinity, do you know where you stopped initially, what street you were at or proximity to the buildings?
A. I was told by Engine 216 we were at the
tower.
Q. Tower 1 or Tower 2? The south tower or the
north tower?
A. I believe the first tower that fell because
they said that we were one minute away when the tower fell.
Q. Okay.
A. Wherever Daniel Suhr was hit by that body, that's where we were.
Q. Who was that?
A. That was the fireman from Engine 216,
probably the first casualty, the first known casualty, because Dr. Kelly was in that ambulance and a medic was in the ambulance with us.
Q. Do you know who the medic was? A. I have no idea.

R. ERDEY
Q. On-duty FDNY medic or - -
A. I have no idea.
Q. How did you come into contact with that
firefighter? Do you remember the events surrounding that?
A. I'm sitting there and I was amazed with this vehicle that was half there and half disintegrated and, you know, you're in amazement. I didn't see the body parts. Somehow my mind blocked that out. But my partner said she saw body parts. So we hear over the air that a fireman is in cardiac arrest. You hear it. You don't know where. I'm not a big traveler in Manhattan. So I looked around and I'm not seeing a fireman in arrest. So I ran around - - and you've got to understand now, even though it's sunny, there's black at the bottom. So I had no clue we were at the tower.
So this fireman turns around, yo, yo, and he's waving. The ambulance behind us could have pulled out and went over to him. I guess they're so intent on going straight. So I had to back up, go over, go up and over the divide. Then we got to this yellow barrier. I said go through. She went through. We went under the scaffolding. So whatever tower had

R. ERDEY
scaffolding, unless both of them did.
This photographer is there. I'll tell you
one photographer probably didn't make it because that one definitely would have made the news because he was right in the guy's face. Firemen are very quick to not let you treat, just run. So they're running ahead of us with us going, and we finally get in the ambulance and we're doing all that we can. Dr. Kelly came in, who I didn't know it was Dr. Kelly at the time, but I knew she was from BHS. She looked familiar. But I'm not going to say, hey, you look familiar, not at a time like that. A medic walked in, so I just did compressions. They were trying to get an airway. All of a sudden they looked at each other, couldn't get an airway, and she said transport.
Now, I know the way they looked at each other he wasn't going to make it. He didn't make it. He's dead. His neck was snapped. Anybody hit with a body from 70 stories up. So you're not going to tell a bunch of firemen, this guy is dead, we're not transporting him. So we transported him.
Q. Did anybody accompany you?
A. Two firemen.
Q. Do you know who they were, their names or

R. ERDEY
what company?
A. No. Solano wrote one name down. They're
both from Engine 216. Q. Okay.
A. They kept yelling, Danny, Danny, Danny. I said suction. I think it was brains coming out of his nose I'm pretty sure. You could tell his neck was snapped because every time you hit a bump, a head don't have that type of movement.
Q. Right.
A. So the kid was staring at us. Now, I know from watching my father die and even during - - my father died right after I got this job, the day after I got the job. Images burn in my head. Sometimes they play with my head. So the way they were staring into him, I said, look. I'm saying should I tell them? Should I not tell them? How can I tell them tactfully? So I said, look, we're doing the CPR for that small glimmer of hope, but I'll tell you what they're going to do. They're going to call it at the hospital. Please stop staring at him. You're going to burn this image in your head. I want you to remember a better image. At first they didn't want to believe - - not that they argued, but you could tell.

R. ERDEY
Q. Right.
A. Then they started saying he has a daughter of
two. I just said continue CPR, continue
other guy took over compressions for me.
though it was a short ride, it felt like
ride. We got to the hospital. A priest
I said give him last rights. They gave him last rights and they called it.
Now, I told the firemen on the ride there that, if they happen to call it while they're still there, don't start staring, though it's tempting. You're going to burn that image in your head, too, and that's now how you want to remember Danny. So after he called last rights, I turned and I saw the two firemen standing there. I turned around and kind of pushed them out.
Q. What hospital did you go to?
A. I believe it's Bellevue.
Q. What did you do after that?
A. My partner had to take the truck because they
didn't want any trucks there at triage. So now I was cut off from Solano. So I got the two firemen out of there. I wanted to make sure they were mentally okay because I don't know if they're going back or what's
suction. The I mean, even
the longest looked at me.

R . ERDEY
going on. Their brother just died. I know if my partner just died, I'd be mentally all whatever.
Q. Right?
A. So I made sure they got out of there and I said, doc, make sure that they don't -- because the dude was messed up. He got hit with a body. So I went back out, I walked around, reporters are shooting with their cameras, and I said to this Metro Care ambulance, you seen my partner, a little Hispanic girl? Oh, she left. I thought, oh, no. I thought they chased her out of the whole place. So I saw another FDNY ambulance, they brought people out, and I says, I think my partner left. I'm going with you guys because I want to go back in, there's more help to do. Just as I was waiting for them, my partner grabbed me. She was around the other side cleaning because the thing was full of blood now. We're not going to pick up more patients when we're full of blood and the suction is full and all.
Q. Now, the EMTs that you ran into at that
point, do you know who they were? Fire Department EMS?
A. They were Fire Department EMS.
Q. You went back to the scene after that?
A. We went back. As we're driving up into the

R. ERDEY
gray, I saw the black. Well, as we were driving back, I'm looking - - oh, let me bring it back. As we were there, whatever battalion is at Bellevue said you're taking a volunteer with you. I said I have no problem taking a volunteer. I just want you to know this could be their last ride. We're not going to go pussyfooting around. We're going back in.
Because I already made a joke to my partner because I have military training, I was a peace officer for York College, and even though it was a rent-a-cop type of outfit, they had very highly - - police and other people, people at the Olympics where they had the bombing. They told us there's always secondary devices. When we were coming to this area, I said to my partner, we'll never feel it. The underground will blow up from us and we'll be dead. Because nobody's counting on a secondary device, and whatever bonehead had us lined up around the World Trade Center, after hindsight, 20/20, that ain't too bright either because there's usually a secondary device. The Olympics showed that in Atlanta. Most bombings show that. There's always something for the people and then, when everybody comes rushing in, there's a little something extra. But we didn't expect that the building was

R. ERDEY
going to be the something extra. So I was realistic. So it happened to be the volunteer happened
to be a nun, who was older, and I said to her, look. You understand, ma'am, we might not come back from this. Oh, I understand. I said, no, I'm serious. We could die. I said, and you're a volunteer. At least my wife gets a little cash, goes back to Brazil, makes a hundred grand because she now knows English. I said, but you've got to understand that there could be something lost.
I don't know if we picked up another volunteer on the first time going in or the second time because we went in twice. It was a white dude, he was young, he could have had children but he said no, and I told him the same thing. Any volunteers I picked up, I told them this could be their last ride. Now, from that point we cleaned up, we went back, we took our volunteers.
Q. Do you know their names?
A. Nope. Names to me weren't important. I was just - - I call it the zone. When I'm doing work, it's the zone. If I had five patients, I'm in the zone for five patients. If you want to come behind me and take a potshot, you could very well do it, and most times

R. ERDEY
you couldn't. I'm in the zone for those five patients and I do my work. So when I'm in the zone, too, all right, I'm going to pick up casualties, that's all I'm going to do. So there could be a hundred people on my bus, they could all be celebrities, that doesn't mean jack to me at that point.
Q. When you returned back to the scene, where did you go? Where were you directed to?
A. Well, you know, they were giving us
direction, but it was so damn gray and dark and you had to ride over this and that and ride around this because
So, you know, she did her best. I'm very honest with you. I mean, I look at this now, it's very
big and nice. But those l i t t l e maps, especially when it's bumpy, I don't even try and, you know, I'm full of amazement, like wow. In my mind, I'm dreaming and this didn't happen.
So we rode down there and there was a big black area. I said, whatever you do, don't drive into the black area because if we get a flat tire we're useless to everyone. We could barely see where we are now. She agreed that was a smart move. So we rode as close as we can when things are gray but clear, and

R. ERDEY
then out of the black comes this EMT from the Fire Department. I wish I knew his name because he's alive, and I remember his face, and there's only two EMTs that died. He came out with his orange helmet, eyes were red, and I said, dude, what are you doing here? I saw private ambulances. I didn't see a Fire Department ambulance. He said, I'm looking for my father. I said, where's your father? He said, in the World Trade Center.
So I told him to get in the ambulance because he was still susceptible to orders. He wasn't in a denial/agitation stage. So I had him back there and I figured the nun - - I said to him there's a nun back here who's an EMT would talk to him. She talks to people for her life day in and day out. So our survivor is back there and we're picking up old people and stragglers, people that couldn't breathe, people that couldn't make it to the ferry. Because a block or two away was the ferry, and if you got to the ferry, you could see the water, sky blue and everything was beautiful. It was on the corner. I forgot which ferry it was. Solano would know. I got on the PA and I said
- - because walking around was senseless because people had shields, you don't know who was a patient, who was

R. ERDEY
a cop. I said, anybody that needs medical attention, come this way.
Then I went to a grocery store and they opened the doors because the power was out and I said, I need water, because I had and old cup. I grabbed a jug of water and I said, I'm not buying it, I'm taking it. No, I understand. Because it was for a patient. It wasn't for me. So I gave her water. I came back in there and I said where's the EMT? Gone. I was furious because now he went back in there. I wish I knew his name.
Q. Do you know where he was from, what battalion? What was the status of the buildings at that point?
A. They ' re gone.
Q. Did you see them collapse?
A. No. Somebody said a tower collapsed while we
were cleaning up. I'm thinking, what's he talking about? On our ride back down there, I'm looking and I said, wow, it's really on fire now. I'm looking and I said, not for nothing, but I think the World Trade Center is down. I said, I'll tell you when I get up to the New York Telephone building. I looked again and I says it's down because my eyes watered up and I turned

R . ERDEY
back to the window and I said, sister, if you look to your left, that's where the World Trade Center used to be, and she says you're kidding me.
Q. Did it look like one had collapsed or both of them?
A. They were both gone. Both of them.
Q. Do you know what time about that was?
A. We didn't even know that we were one minute
from the tower collapsing if it wasn't for that engine company telling us. We went to the engine company to get closure, to 216. It's funny how people need closure. I especially need closure. We needed closure and we went down there and we brought flowers to Quinn, to them, and to 49 for Carlos, and one of the guys was there and he said, I recognize your voice. The other guy was there and he goes, you know, we talked about you guys for four days. So they talked about us and we talked about them. So we said, what happened? Well,
he got hit with a body, which we already knew, and he said, he saved us. I spoke to Ken Fried, who was not there, but I was speaking to him on-line and I asked to make sure all my brothers who went to the Fire side were alive. I said I picked up the guy who got hit with the body, and he said, oh, that's Danny Suhr. So

R . ERDEY
that's how I found out his name. Q. Who is Ken?
A. Ken Fried. He's a fireman. He was not there at that time, but he's on the Fire side. I had five or six people who I was partners with that went to be firemen.
Q. Oh, okay.
A. So I wanted to know if they all lived, so every time I saw a name on-line, are you there? You know, it could be their father or their mother. So that's how I found out the fireman's name. I also found out that Ken's father came from Engine 216, so that's how they knew the fireman. He told us that he didn't save just you, he saved the battalion, that fire engine company. I was l i k e wow. So when we went down there, that same day the picture of him was in the
Post. I said, that was him. They saw us, we spoke, we found out from Engine 216, from those two young guys,
we were one minute away from, I believe that tower, and he saved that company because they a l l followed us, which I didn't know. The cop who escorted us knows. I don't know if you were there, but that was some caravan that was in the way.
Before that you asked me about the New York

R. ERDEY
Presbyterian ambulance and the number. I don't have the number. I have it written down at home. But I called up New York Presbyterian. I said tell me what happened to number so-and-so. I can't think of the number. They said, I can't tell you what happened to the people, because I asked what happened to the people. I told them who I was. I said, I'm EMT Erdey from the Fire Department. I was memorizing their number in case I met up with them. They came out to talk to us. Please tell me about those people. I can't tell you about those people. All right. So I said, then listen to what I'm saying. Don't tell me
-about the people; tell me about the ambulance itself. How is ambulance such-and-such number? It was three numbers. She said, I can't tell you about the people. I said, no, listen to what I'm saying. Tell me about the ambulance. She said the ambulance disintegrated.
I saw a New York Presbyterian ambulance. Now I have to know about it. If you want the number, you leave me your number and I'll call you. Okay. But I said what happened to this number? Oh, well, those two

R. ERDEY
people, one put on his helmet, crashed through the window, broke both his legs, and the other one ran over him to get inside. They both lived. I gave that dude my number to give to that dude who was driving because that's the dude that came out, and I said, please have that dude call me. Well, I never got a phone call from that dude. Otherwise I'd have the name for you. But those two guys lived. Those two guys you might want to speak to because both his legs got broke. He was there and stayed there. But he hasn't called me.
I'm kind of pissed I didn't get that guy's name, who came out of that smoke. If there's one image that's burned through my head, it's Danny with his teeth loose and that kid coming out of the black smoke.
Q. Is there anything else that you recall? A. No.
LIEUTENANT FEILER: Okay. We'll conclude the interview. I want to thank you for the time and your participation in this event. It's really, really important. The time now is 0857 hours and we'll conclude the interview.

FILE NO 9110026
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT ERIC HANSEN
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 10 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY ELIZABETH SANTAMARIA

HANSEN
LIEUTENANT FELLER TODAYS DATE IS
OCTOBER 10 2001 THE TIME NOWIS 1013 HOURS AM LIEUTENANT MONTE FEILER WITH THE
NEWYORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT INVESTIGATIONS AND TRIALS AM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW
WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME RANK AND COMMAND
MY NAME IS ERIC HANSEN BADGE NUMBER 1258 AT 22 BATTALION FIFTH DIVISION
EMT
EMT
WERE CONDUCTING THE INTERVIEW AT
INTERVIEW ROOM AT THE BUREAU OF INVESTIGATIONS AND
TRIALS METROTECH NEW YORK BROOKLYN WHAT NEED FROM YOU SIR IS
SCENARIO OF WHAT OCCURRED ON THE MORNING OF SEPTEMBER 11TH IN RESPONSE TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER INCIDENT
APPROXIMATELY 850 855 WAS ORDERED BY CAPTAIN OLSEN OF THE 22 BATTALION TO RESPOND WITH LSU5 WHICH NORMALLY DRIVE TO WORLD TRADE CENTER TOWER DUE TO PLANE CRASH ACCIDENT GOT ONTO
THE VERRAZANO WENT INTO THE BROOKLYN BATTERY
TUNNEL CAME OUT OF THE BROOKLYN BATTERY TUNNEL AND

HANSEN
WAS ON WEST STREET HEADED UP TOWARDS LIBERTY
UPON THERE SAW CHIEF MCCRACKEN OF THE DEPARTMENT RUNNING SOUTHWARDS AND SAW THE FIRE COMMISSIONER ALSO RUNNING SOUTHWARDS SAW CHIEF GOMBO DIRECTING ME TO GO DOWN BLOCK TOWARDS BARCLAY
STREET BECAUSE THERE WAS DEBRIS COMING
DOWN AT THAT
TIME
THIS WAS APPROXIMATELY 915 OR SO AM PROCEEDED DOWN TOWARDS BARCLAY STREET DUE TO
THE FACT CHIEF GOMBOSTATED THERE WASDEBRIS FALLING
OUT OF THE WINDOWS IT WASNT DEBRIS
BODIES COMING DOWN BEING PUSHED
OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER TOWER
PROCEEDED DOWNTOWARDS BARCLAY STREET THERE WAS TRAFFIC TIEUP AT BARCLAY STREET WAS THEN
DIRECTED BY POLICE TO MOVE MY LSU5 OUT OF THE WAY OF TRAFFIC AND TO MOVE DOWNTOWARDS MURRAY STREET
PROCEEDED DOWN TURNED LEFT ONTO MURRAY STREET TO WHERE STAYED THERE UNTIL GOT FURTHER ORDERS FROM ANOTHER EMS OR FIRE DEPARTMENT
PERSONNEL STAYED DOWNTHERE ON MURRAY STREET AND WAS DIRECTED TO GO DOWNTOWARDS NORTH END AVENUE
WAS ON THE CORNER OF MURRAY STREET AND NORTH END AVENUE WHERE PARKED MY RIG AT THAT TIME HEARD WHAT HAD SOUNDED LIKE TRAIN FREIGHT TRAIN
IT WAS
OUT COMING OUT AT THAT TIME

HANSEN
COMING THROUGHTHE STREETS AND IT WAS ONE OF THE
BUILDING CAVING DOWN
AT THAT TIME DID NOT KNOWTHERE WAS SECOND
PLAIN THAT HIT THE SECOND WORLD TRADE CENTER WAS REALLY CONFUSED AT THE SOUND AND THE SITUATION UNTIL
SAW THE BLEVY OF DUST AND SMOKE COMING TOWARDS UP THE STREET AND STAYED IN THE AMBULANCE WHERE
SAW CHIEF FRAN PASCALE CHIEF FRAN PASCALE ASKED ME TO DIRECT ALL THE AMBULANCES OUT OF THE AREA AND TO
MOVE UP TOWARDS SOME PLACE LIKE WARREN STREET WHERE WERE YOU AT THAT TIME WHEN YOU SAW
CHIEF PASCALE
SAW CHIEF PASCALE AT NORTH EXCUSE ME
SAW CHIEF PASCALE AT NORTH END AVENUE AND SHE WAS EVERYBODY WAS RUNNING FOR THEIR LIVES
LITERALLY LEFT MY AMBULANCE PARKED AT THE CORNER OF MURRAY AND NORTH END AVENUE AND DIRECTED ALL
THE AMBULANCES TO GO DOWNTOWARDS NORTH END AVENUE AND WARREN TO WHERE IT WOULD BE LITTLE MORE SAFER
WE GOT HERE AT WARREN STREET TO WHERE
COULDNT FIND CHIEF PASCALE AND COULDNT FIND THE PEOPLE THERE WAS AN AMBULANCE BACKUP BECAUSE WE
JUST COULDNT GET OUT OF THE AREA EVERYTHING WAS TIED DOWN

HANSEN
AT THAT TIME THERE WAS SECOND FREIGHT TRAIN
IT SOUNDED LIKE SECOND FREIGHT TRAIN RUNNING
THROUGH THE STREET THAT WAS TOWER COLLAPSING AT THAT TIME WE WERE ALL DOWN ONEWAYSTREET
BELIEVE IT WAS ON WARRENSTREET AND WEDUCKED BOTH INTO LOBBIES OF BUILDINGS TO PROTECT OURSELVES FROM
THE SECOND WAVE OF SMOKE AND DUST AND GASES THAT
WERE COMING OUT OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AT THAT
TIME THERE WAS SPECULATIONS THAT THE WORLD TRADE
CENTER HAD COLLAPSED BUT STILL OVER THE RADIO COMMUNICATIONS WAS VERY MIXED UP NOBODY KNEW WHERE THEY WERE GOING WOUNDUP AT RIVER TERRACE WHICH
WAS RIGHT OFF OF WARREN STREET AND WAS DIRECTED BY
CAPTAIN ABDO HE WORKS IN THE DIVISION HE JUST MADE CAPTAIN HE USED TO WORK HERE ON THE SEVENTH FLOOR
WAS DIRECTED BY CAPTAIN ABDO ABOUT GOOD 45
MINUTES TO AN HOUR LATER HE STATED THAT THERE WAS POSSIBLE CHANCE OF GAS MAIN LEAK IN THE AREA
PEOPLE STARTED TO SCURRY STAYED AND REMAINED
WITH THE CAPTAIN UNTIL FURTHER ORDERS THAT HE GAVE
ME ASSISTING MOVING THE TRAFFIC ALONG CAPTAIN
ABDO THEN WAS DIRECTED BY CAPTAIN ABDO TO GO TO 23RD STREET AND CHELSEA PIER TO WHERE MADE MYWAY

HANSEN
IT TOOK SOME TIME TO MAKE MY WAY MADE MY WAY ON
DOWNTHERE WAS DOWNTHERE APPROXIMATELY 11 1130
YOU TOOK THE LSU TRUCK WITH YOU TOOK THE LSU TRUCK WITH ME IT WAS
COVERED WITH DUST AND DEBRIS AND ALL THAT STUFF
TOOK IT DOWNTHERE TO WHERE DOCTORS AND NURSES WANTED THE SUPPLIES FROM MY LSU SAID CANNOT GIVE THEM OUT UNTIL HAD PERMISSION FROM THE SECTOR COMMANDER AT THAT TIME HAD TO WAIT GOOD HOUR UNTIL SECTOR COMMANDER GAVE ME PERMISSION TO OFFLOAD ALL MY EQUIPMENT EXCEPT FOR THE WEAPONSOFWAR KITS THE ATROPINE THE ATROPINE WHICH DID NOT OFFLOAD AND KEPT THEM ON MY RIG UNTIL SOMEONE GAVE ME OFF ORDERS TO OFFLOAD THAT BECAUSE CARRY QUITE FEW BAGS OF THOSE ON THE LSU
WHAT KIND OF EQUIPMENT WERE YOU GIVING OUT
WAS GIVING OUT BACKBOARDS WAS GIVING OUT LONG BOARDS WAS GIVING OUT REGULATORS
SPLINTS TRACTION SPLINTS WATER SALINE
EVERYTHING THAT AN AMBULANCE CARRIED CARRIED
SUCTION PORTABLE SUCTIONS GAVE OUT THE

HANSEN
MULTILAETOR TWO OF THEM AND SET UP THE TANK
FOR AN ASTHMA SECTION THAT THEY HAD ALREADY
PREPARED BY THE PIER WHICH SET UP FOR THEM SO THEY HAD AN ASTHMA TABLE
WAS TOLD AS SOON AS FINISHED THERE WAS DIRECTED TO GO TO STATION 11 TO PICK UP MORE
EQUIPMENT AND SUPPLIES AND TO GO TO BELLEVUE AND
PICK UP MOREEQUIPMENT AND SUPPLIES AND TO BRING IT DOWN TO 23RD STREET CHELSEA PIER
WHEN YOU ORIGINALLY RECEIVED THE CALL
WHAT FREQUENCY DID YOU GET IT ON
WAS TOLD BY MY CAPTAIN GO TO RICHMOND
FREQUENCY STAYED ON RICHMOND FREQUENCY UNTIL GOT ONTO BECAUSE WAS NOT TOLD BY RICHMOND
FREQUENCY TO SWITCH OVER TO CITYWIDE STAY ON
RICHMOND FREQUENCY
WHO DIRECTED YOU WHICH CAPTAIN AT THE
BATTALION
CAPTAIN OLSEN STAYED ON THE RICHMOND
FREQUENCY UNTIL HIT VESEY STREET VESEY STREET AND WEST STREET AND HAD TO CALL UP RICHMOND AND THEY
TURNED AROUND AND SAID YOUR LOCATION THAT YOURE SUPPOSED TO BE AT THIS WAS ABOUT 930 STAYED THERE UNTIL WAS ORDERED BY CHIEF THIS IS AFTER

HANSEN
CHIEF GOMBO JUST WANTED TO FIND OUT WHERE MY NEW
DROPOFF ZONE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE SET UP
WHEN YOU WERE COMING OVER THE VERRAZANO
BRIDGE YOU WERE BY YOURSELF YES IM SINGLEMAN UNIT
WHATDIDYOUSEE
SAW THE ONLY THING SAW WAS WORLD
TRADE CENTER WITH SMOKE COMING OUT OF THE TOP OF THE TOWER
WAS THAT THE SOUTH BUILDING OR THE NORTH
BUILDING
HAVE NO IDEA WHICH ONE IT WAS
BELIEVE IT WAS THE NORTH BUILDING FIRST
SO WHEN YOU WERE COMING OVER THE BRIDGE
ONE BUILDING WASSTRUCK YES
NOTTHE SECOND
NO SIR
WERE YOU PRESENT WHEN THE SECOND WAS STRUCK
DEFINITELY
DID YOU SEE THE PLANE HIT IT
NO SIR COULDNT BECAUSE GROUND ZERO WHICH IS NOW GROUND
BUILDING
WAS DOWN AT ZERO GETTING

HANSEN
DIRECTIONS WHERE TO DROP OFF MY SUPPLIES MY
SUPPLIES WAS GETTING DIRECTIONS TO MOVE FURTHER ON DOWNDOWNTO BARCLAY STREET TO WHERE WAS AT THAT TIME WAS SHOWER OF DEBRIS OF HUMAN BODIES COMING DOWN OFF THE BUILDING YOU
YOU SAID YOU RAN INTO CHIEF MCCRACKEN
DID YOU HAVE CONVERSATION WITH CHIEF MCCRACKEN
DID NOT HAVE CONVERSATION JUST SAW
HIM RUNNING SOUTH FROM WHERE WAS OFF OF VESEY STREET AND WEST AND SAW THE COMMISSIONER RUNNING SOUTH ALSO BUT THEY WERE ON THE HUDSON RIVER SIDE
OF THE STREET AND THEY WERE RUNNING SOUTHWARDS WHEN THEY TURNED AROUND AND SAID THERE WASDEBRIS COMING DOWN FROM THE BUILDINGS
YOURE TALKING ABOUT COMMISSIONER VON ESSEN
VON ESSEN
YOU HAD CONVERSATION WITH CHIEF GOMBO CHIEF GOMBO SAID CHIEF WHERE DO YOU
WANT MY LSU THATS LSU5 FROM STATEN ISLAND HE TURNED AROUND AND SAID GET THE RIG AND GET IT OUT
OF HERE THERE IS DEBRIS COMING DOWN IT WAS
QUICK
THAT WAS THE EXTENT OF THE CONVERSATION DID YOU HAVE CONTACT WITH OTHER EMSOR

HANSEN
FIREFIGHTERS
HAD CONTACT WITH SOME IT LOOKED LIKE
IT WAS BATTALION CHIEF WHO TOLD ME TO TAKE MY RIG
AND GET IT OUT OF HERE GET IT OUT OF HARMS WAY BECAUSE STUFF IS COMING DOWN
DO YOU KNOWWHO HE WAS NO IDEA NO IDEA
THEN YOU GOT UP TO THINK YOU SAID
BARCLAY
YES WHEN GOT UP TO BARCLAY WAS TOLD
TO MOVE DOWN TOWARDS MURRAY STREET
WHOTOLD YOU THAT
WELL THE CHIEF SAID GET IT OUT OF HERE
AND GET IT OUT OF HARMS WAY THE BATTALION CHIEF
THAT WAS STANDING THERE RIGHT AT THE ENGINES AND MOVED IT UP TOWARDS MURRAY STREET AND WAS DOWN AT
MURRAY AND WEST AND THEN WAS TOLD TO MOVE UP TO
MURRAY AND MURRAY AND NORTH END AVENUE PARKED IT ON THE CORNER AND LIKE SAID AT THAT TIME
EVERYTHING WASCALM UNTIL THE FREIGHT TRAIN RUMBLED
IN THE STREETS AND IT WAS STILL NOT KNOWING WHAT
REALLY TOOK PLACE OR WHAT HAPPENED
DID YOU EVER ENTER ANY OF THE BUILDINGS
NEVER ENTERED ANY OF THE BUILDINGS ANY
10

11
HANSEN
OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER PROPER NO
OTHER THAN THE CHIEFS THAT YOU MENTIONED DID YOU RUN ACROSS ANY OTHER EMS PEOPLE THAT YOU
RECOGNIZED
RAN ACROSS VALERIE LONGO OF THE 22
BATTALION WHO HAD RIG OUT THERE WHERE DID YOU SEE HER
SHE WAS PARKED ON MURRAY STREET
MURRAYANDWHAT
MURRAY AND BETWEEN NORTH END AVENUE AND
WEST SIDE
SHE WAS TAKING CARE OF PATIENTS
NO THEY WERE STANDING BY OR PARKED ON
45DEGREE ANGLE AS WEWERE TOLD TO DO THERE WERE WHOLE BUNCH OF AMBULANCES FROM NEWJERSEY HATZOLAH
AND FEW OTHER PLACES THE FIRE DEPARTMENT
AMBULANCES THEY WERE PARKED AT 45DEGREE ANGLE TOOK MY LSU KNOWING THAT IF HAD TO GET OUT
AND TO SET UP TRIAGE AREA SOME PLACE HAD TO BE READY TO GO AT ANY MOMENT
JUST FORTHE RECORD CAN YOU JUST TELL ME WHAT LSU STANDS FOR
LOGISTICS SUPPORT UNIT AND THAT HANDLES SUPPLIES FOR MASS CASUALTY INCIDENT TO CERTAIN

HANSEN NUMBEROF PEOPLE
DID THERE COME TIME WHERE YOU EVER DID
SWITCH OVER TO CITYWIDE
THERE CAME TIME WHEN SWITCHED OVER TO
CITYWIDE AFTER SPOKE TO CHIEF ABDO MEAN CAPTAIN ABDO OF THE 5TH DIVISION
ANY CONTACT WITH ANY OTHER EMS PERSONNEL THE ONLY CONTACT HAD WITH OTHER EMS
PERSONNEL WERE FROM OTHER BOROUGHS AND DID NOT KNOWTHEM AT THAT TIME
ANY VOLUNTARIES
SAW VOLUNTARY AMBULANCES JERSEY AMBULANCES AND SAW HATZOLAH AMBULANCES DOWN
THERE BUT DID NOT RECOGNIZE ANYBODY HOWABOUT FIREFIGHTERS ANYBODY YOU
RECOGNIZED
THERE WAS NO FIREFIGHTERS THAT DID
RECOGNIZE AT ALL MEAN BUT THERE WAS FIRE
COMPANIES DOWNTHERE
SO AFTER YOU WERE DIRECTED TO GO UP TO
CHELSEA BY CHIEF PASCALE YOU STAYED AT THE CHELSEA
PIER AREA IN THE TRIAGE
RIGHT UNTIL 830 THAT NIGHT
DID YOU WITNESS THE BUILDINGS COLLAPSE OR
12

YOU HEARD IT
HANSEN
DID NOT WITNESS THE BUILDINGS COLLAPSE DUE TO THE FACT THAT THE OTHER BUILDINGS WERE
SHADOWING THE STRUCTURES FROM WHERE WAS WAS YOU KNOW TOO CLOSE TOO FAR IN AND RIGHT NEXT TO
THE BUILDINGS TO WHERE YOU COULDNT SEE ANYTHING
BUT IT WAS JUST PLUME OF SMOKE AND DUST AND DEBRIS COMING DOWN MY LSU WAS COVERED WITH SOOT AND DEBRIS HAD TO CLEAR THAT OFF AND STOOD THERE
OR MY LSU STOOD IT BEARS MARKS BAPTIZED UNDER
FIRE
WAS ANYBODY WITH YOU DID YOU PICK UP ANY PERSONNEL
DIDNT PICK UP ANYBODY AT ALL JUST
NEEDED MY ORDERS TO DROP MY SUPPLY LOAD THAT HAD
IN THE BACK HERE OR WHERE TO SET UP TRIAGE AREA WHEN GOT MY ORDERS TO GO DOWNTO 23RD STREET WAS TOLD TO SET UP MY TRIAGE AREA AT 23RD STREET
BY CHIEF PASCALE
BY CHIEF PASCALE AND CAPTAIN ABDO WHEN YOU GOT TO CHELSEA PIER WHO WAS IN
CHARGE THERE FROM EMS
COULD NOT RECOGNIZE ANYBODY FROM
DID NOT RECOGNIZE ANYBODY JUST BECAUSE PROBABLY
13

14
HANSEN
HAD DONT KNOW WAS STUNNED BY THE WHOLE
SITUATION STUNNED OR UPSET BY THE WHOLE SITUATION
BUT KNOW HE WAS EMS CAPTAIN THAT TOLD ME TO DROP OFF
MALE FEMALE
IT WAS MALE HE TOLD ME TO DROP OFF MY
SUPPLIES THERE AND TO HELP SET UP 23RD STREET AS
TRIAGE POINT AREA
DID YOU HAVE ANY FURTHER RADIO
COMMUNICATIONS WITH ANYONE
THE ONLY TIME HAD MY NEXT RADIO
COMMUNICATIONS WERE APPROXIMATELY AROUND
500 OCLOCK WHEN THEY WERE TRYING TO TAKE ROLL
CALL OF AMBULANCES IN THE AREA IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN
JUST LITTLE EARLIER IM NOT QUITE SURE
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT IS IMPORTANT BETWEEN THE TIME FRAME THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT
THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD
NO NOT AT THIS TIME BUT IT WAS DID
DIVE INTO BUILDINGS AND THERE WAS ONE DOORMANTHAT WAS DOORMANTHAT WAS GOING TO LOCK THE LOBBY OR THIS DOOR DONT EVEN KNOWTHE BUILDING BECAUSE
IT WAS LIKE IT HAPPENED AND POLICE OFFICER SAID
DONT LOCK IT BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE WERE STILL

15
HANSEN
COMING FROM THE PLUME OF DEBRIS AND SMOKE AND
EVERYBODY MADE MADDASH
THAT WAS BEFORE THE BUILDINGS COLLAPSED NO THIS WAS ON THE SECOND BUILDING THAT
COLLAPSED THE SECOND COLLAPSE DO NOT KNOWWHAT TRANSPIRED DID NOT KNOWTHERE WAS SECOND PLANE
HIT DID NOT KNOWWITH THAT BOWL OF THUNDER AND THE NOISE DID NOT KNOWTHAT THE WORLD TRADE
CENTER CAVED IN WAS TOTALLY UNAWARE UNTIL SOMEONE SAID THE WORLD TRADE CENTER COLLAPSED IT WASTOO UNBELIEVABLE TO BELIEVE THAT SUCH THING COULD HAPPEN
WE ARE GOING TO CONCLUDE THE INTERVIEW WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME THANK YOU FOR
PARTICIPATING IN THIS ITS VERY IMPORTANT
NO PROBLEM NO PROBLEM
LIEUTENANT FELLER WECONCLUDE THE
INTERVIEW AT 1034 HOURS

File No. 9110027
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT JUSTIN LIM
Interview Date: October 10, 2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria

2
Lim
MR. ECCLESTON: Today is October 10,
2001. The time is 8:57 a.m. hours. This is Christopher Eccleston of the New York City Fire Department. I am conducting an interview with the following individual:
Q. Please state your name, rank and title and assigned command of the Fire Department of the City of New York regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
A. Justin Lim, Shield 5016, EMT, Battalion 20.
Q. Justin, were you assigned to the World Trade Center disaster on September 11, 2001?
A. Y es.
Q. Enroute to the alarm, can you tell me what you saw?
A. Enroute to the alarm we saw both of the buildings giving up with a lot of smoke and we actually saw a little fire from the West Side Highway.
Q. When you arrived on the scene, where did you park your ambulance?
A. West and Vesey.
Q. Can you indicate on the map with a number

3
Lim
1 where you parked your vehicle.
A. (Complied with request.)
Q. Whom did you first report to when you arrived there?
A. At the time there was no officers, but
there were two medics on scene, also from Battalion 20, which told us that we were supposed to park our buses in the opposite direction of the World Trade Center in order for immediate egress.
Q. Were you given a specific assignment by them after you turned your vehicles around?
A. At the time we turned our vehicles around, we started to gather our equipment and we had treated actually several ESU and firefighters for minor injuries before we could actually make it to the Trade Center.
Q. This was on Vesey and West where you treated them in?
A. Yes.
Q. After you treated these injured people, did you transport them anywhere?
A. At the time they didn't really want to leave the scene and we just got a lot of the dust and dirt out of their eyes and we were trying to

4
Lim
evaluate them to see how serious their injuries were
andatthetimetherewasn'tanymajorinjuries. It was just a lot of dust, minor abrasions, so we let them go on their way because they refused to be transported anywhere.
Q. After they left you, what did you do next?
A. We started gathering our equipment, which consisted of our helmet, our turn out coat and first aid bag, AED and oxygen bag.
Q. And where did you respond?
A. We started walking towards the World Trade Center and at that time that's when the collapse happened.
Q. That's when the first building collapsed? A. Yes.
Q. What did you do when the first building
collapsed?
A. When the first building collapsed, we both
started -- my partner and I both started walking
back to the vehicle and we opened up one of the compartment doors where we put all our equipment in and as it was coming down, we started seeing a mob of people start running towards us. So we opened up our back doors and we put in as many people as we

5
Lim
could and then my partner was kind of motioning to
the civilians and the ESU workers, that whoever wanted to get a ride, they just hop in and we would take them.
And this whole time the building was still comingdown. Itwasonlyhalfwaydown. Iproceeded to get into the driver's seat and there were like several people running up to the bus saying, "get
out of here." And we actually ended up driving with several people on the hood and people were hanging off the sides of the mirrors, off the back step of
the ambulance, and I'd say we probably got about
like 30 -- maybe 30 people out of there before it actually came completely down and the smoke came.
Q. Where did you respond to when you had all these people? Where did you drive them to?
A. We started going, I believe it was -- I
guess it was Barclay or Murray. One of those two block. It was just before that school or the
college. At that time everybody got off and I guess
a couple of privates and I believe two FDNY ambulances were there and I guess we started staging around that area.
Q. Can you indicate on the map where you

6
Lim
believe the staging area was set up?
A. Between Warren and Murray.
Q. Between Warren and Murray on West? A. Yes.
Q. You stayed there for how long?
A. We stayed there probably the duration.
What happened was there was no officers and I started taking down the people's units. There was like the Jewish hospitals, the private hospitals, a voluntary ambulance there, there was two city FDNY unitsinthere. OnanapkinIwrotedownalltheir units and I gave it back to Manhattan South, telling them I had about ten units that were being staged. So that's pretty much where we were.
Q. And you were at this location when the second tower came down also?
A. Actually, when the second tower came down we were probably at Barclay and Murray and then we went to Warren and Murray. We dropped off people herebeforethesecondonecame. Becausethat's when they started coming out and they wanted to go back and get their friend or whatever.
Q. So you dropped off people at West and Barclay?

7
Lim
A. Yes, West and Barclay.
Q. And then you proceededto West and Murray?
A. At this time we were going to try to turn
around, I believe it was, and then when we started turning around the second building came down. So we then turned around, and that's how we ended up
there.
Q. So when the second building came down, you're indicating you were at Barclay and West?
A. Yes.
Q. Or West between Barclay and Vesey? A. Right. After that then we were treating
some minor aided again. It was all debris and dirt and when the second building came down we, again, took as many people as we could and then we moved here.
Q. You moved to Murray and West? A. Correct.
Q. Correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Do you remember unit designations from these units that were with you or the names of people who were with you?
A. Iknowthat--

8
Lim
Q. To the best of your memory.
A. I know there was one guy from a Queens hospital. Iwasintheacademywithhimandhewas there, I believe, with a voluntary ambulance.
Q. Do you remember what his name was? A. I believe his name was James Mahoney. Q. James Mahoney?
A. Yes. And then there was another Jewish
hospitalsthere. IthinkHatzolahIthinkitwas and then there was another guy that had a gold shield on and he had --
Q. The pais? The curls?
A. Yeah, the curls and he was trying to
direct everybody but, you know, but he was still caught in the chaos. He wasn't really doing much. He was yelling at everybody. So he started trying to take people on his own and transport people that haven't even been triaged. So he wasn't any help. And by that time, before they yelled for a gas leak for another evacuation, there were a few lieutenants there and they kind of gave direction, and there were staging areas all over the place.
Q. How long do you believe you remained at Murray and West?

9
Lim
A. I'd probably say maybe 40 minutes.
That's actually before - - a couple of minutes before they started assigning the units to the Chelsea
Pier. So we treated who we could and we asked everybody if they wanted to be transported and most of them said no, and then they reassigned us to Chelsea Pier.
Q. So from Murray and West you responded to the Chelsea Pier; is that correct?
A. They started assigning people there. We
were kind of blocked in and then we --they said everybody started running towards us and then a few minutes later we heard there was a gas leak. So
that's when they wanted us to evacuate. So at that
time we took -- I believe we took two firefighters
and we went back to Chelsea Pier and we dropped them off half way, because they wanted to get out.
Q. Do you have any idea approximately what time this was?
A. No.
Q. You can use the time line, I don't know if this will help had you at all. The north tower went down at 10:30, 10:29.
A. (No response.)

10
Lim
Q. Was it after 12? Was it before 12? Noon? A. It was probably around noonish.
Q. Around noonish?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you have anything else you would like
to add to this, to the events that happened prior to 12:OO noon?
A. As far as criticism?
Q. Anything you want to tell me. Anything
you saw, anything you heard, any emotions you felt, any feelings.
A. In the beginning when we first staged by West and Vesey, I had a lot of firefighters that are friends from my department that walked over to the building about ten minutes before we started to and that was the time the building collapsed. They probably just got to the front door. We treated firefighters, lieutenants, captains. Actually the biggest downfall to this whole thing was probably the communications with the private hospitals, because some of them didn't have unit designations, just vehicle ID numbers. They had no clue what to do.

11
Lim
basically didn't want to listen. Initially they
didn't want to give information. You know, it took me a while to convince them, you know, we have to stage here, because there were a lot of wounded. We were actually trying to stage there and get them treating patients so that we could turn back and see if we could get anybody else. That's when they called the gas leak and everybody had to turn and run.
Q. Anything else you would like to add? A. That's it.
MR. ECCLESTON: This concludes our interview. The time is 9:09. 1thank you
very much for your corporation. The counter on the tape is 212.

FILE NO 9110028
WORLDTRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW PARAMEDIC KEVIN KELLEHER
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 10 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

KELLEHER
MR ECCLESTON TODAYS DATE IS OCTOBER 10 2001 THE TIME IS 833 HOURS THIS IS CHRISTOPHER ECCIESTON OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT 1M CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME RANK TITLE AND
ASSIGNED COMMAND OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF
NEW YORK REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001 MY NAME IS KEVIN KELLEHER PARAMEDIC
TO BATTALION 20
MR ECCLESTON ALSO PRESENT IN THE ROOM IS
PARAMEDIC MARQUEZ PARAMEDIC FELIX MARQUEZ ASSIGNED TO BATTALION 20 SHIELD NUMBER 1379
WERE YOU ASSIGNED TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER DISASTER ON SEPTEMBER 11 2001
YES WAS
RESPONDING TO THE CALL CAN YOU TELL MEWHAT
YOU SAW
WASRESPONDING DOWNTHE SHERIDAN EXPRESSWAY OUT OF THE BRONX WE WERE ABLE TO SEE SMOKE FROM BOTH
TOWERS WE GOT ON THE FDR AS WE ARE HEADING DOWNTHE
FDR WE STARTED NOTICING PEOPLE COMING TOWARDS US THERE WAS ONCE WE GOT SOUTH OF THE MANHATTAN
ASSIGNED

KELLEHER
BRIDGE WE COULDNT SEE ANY WE COULD ONLY SEE ONE TOWER IN THE CLOUD OF SMOKE
AS WEGOT TO THE END OF THE FOR WETRIED TO
GET TO THE WEST SIDE WE GOT DOWNTO THE TUNNEL AT THE
END AND THREE QUARTERS OF THAT HAD BEEN CLOSED DOWN
WE THOUGHT IT HAD COLLAPSED SO WE TURNED AROUND AND TRIED HEADING EAST TOWARDSTHE WORLDTRADE CENTER WE RESPONDED TO THE STAGING AREA IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE CHURCH AND VESEY WE WERE HEADING WEST ON MAIDEN LANE WHEN OVER THE AIR WE STARTED HEARING PEOPLE SCREAMING
THAT THE SECOND TOWER WAS COMING DOWN
AT THAT TIME EVERYTHING JUST WENT BLACK WE GOT COVERED IN CLOUD OF DUST AND DEBRIS WE MADE
QUICK LEFTHAND TURN ON LIBERTY AND TRINITY PLACE BELIEVE IT IS RIGHT ON LIBERTY SOUTH AND LEFT ON
BROADWAY WESTARTED HEADING SOUTH ON BROADWAY WE GOT FLAGGED DOWNAT EXCHANGE PLACE AND BROADWAYWHERE
POLICE LIEUTENANT COMPLAINING OF DIFFICULTY
BREATHING SO WE STOPPED THE VEHICLE THERE AND BEGAN
TREATMENT ON HIM
WHAT WERE THE EXTENT OF HIS INJURIES
HE WAS COMPLAINING OF SHORTNESS OF BREATH
BASICALLY WE HAD PHYSICIAN AND AN EMT WITH US AT THE TIME

KELLEHER
WHOWERE THE PHYSICIAN AND THE EMT DO YOU RECALL THEIR NAMES
THE EMTWASJUAN VEGA DONT KNOWWHOTHE
PHYSICIAN WAS 1M NOT REALLY SURE WHOTHE PHYSICIAN WAS KNOWHE WAS PEDIATRICIAN FROM JACOBI
HOSPITAL
YOU BROUGHT HIM WITH YOU YES
DIDNT RECALL DO YOU KNOWTHE NAME OF THE EMT
THE EMT IS JUAN VEGA
YOU PICKED UP THIS POLICE OFFICER AND THEN YOU PROCEEDED WHERE WITH HIM
WE PROCEEDED SOUTH ON BROADWAY WE WERE TRYING TO CLEAR THE AREA BECAUSE WE DIDNT KNOWWHAT ELSE WAS IN DANGER OF COMING DOWN WE WANTED TO GET TO
SAFE AREA WE PROCEEDED DOWNBROADWAY TO STATEN ISLAND FERRY TERMINAL AT SOUTH FERRY
WHEN YOU GOT DOWNTHERE WHAT DID YOU DO
WE GOT THERE WE WERE MET BY ABOUT THOUSAND
CIVILIANS NO OTHER PUBLIC SAFETY PERSONNEL WE GATHERED ALL THE CIVILIANS UP GOT THEM OUT OF THE DUST AND DEBRIS GOT THEM INSIDE THE BUILDING AFTER ABOUT
15 MINUTES OR SO TWO MORE AMBULANCES ARRIVED SOME

KELLEHER
POLICE ARRIVED
THE POLICE HAD FOUND LOAD OF BUSSES THAT
WERE LINED UP BY THE STATEN ISLAND FERRY SO THEY MOVED
EVERYBODY THAT WASNOT INJURED OUT OF THE AREA ON THE BUSSES
DO YOU KNOW WHERE THEY TOOK THOSE PEOPLE NORTH
PARAMEDIC MARQUEZ THEY TOOK THEM NORTH DOWN THE FOR BELIEVE IT WAS AND THEY WERE TRYING TO
LOAD UP FERRIES TO GET PEOPLE OUT OF MANHATTAN INTO JERSEY AND ALSO TO STATEN ISLAND
THEY WANTED TO GET EVERYBODY OUT OF THE AREA AFTER WE SECURED THE AREA ANYBODY THAT WAS
INJURED FOR WESET UP STAGING AREA AND TREATMENT AREA AT THE STATEN ISLAND FERRY TERMINAL ON THE SECOND FLOOR WE SET THE TREATMENT AREA BUSSES WERE STAGED OUTSIDE THAVS ABOUT IT WESTAYED THERE FOR MOST OF THE REST OF THE DAY
CAN YOU JUST INDICATE ON THE MAP PROVIDED
FOR YOU THE NUMBER WHERE YOU PICKED UP THAT INJURED POLICE OFFICER FIRST
SURE
YOU PICKED UP THE INJURED POLICE OFFICER ON EXCHANGE AND BROADWAY

KELLEHER
YES
THEN YOU PROCEEDED TO WHERE
WE PROCEEDED TO THE STATEN ISLAND FERRY TERMINAL IVS NOT SHOWNON THE MAP IFS SOUTH ON
BROADWAY
WHAT VEHICLE WERE YOU IN
WEWERE IN VEHICLE 110
DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WOULD LIKE TO
ADD TO THIS
JUST THAT WHENWE WERE DOWNTHERE WE DIDNT
KNOW IF WE WERE CUT OFF FROM THE NORTH THAVS WHY WE SECURED THE STATEN ISLAND FERRY TERMINAL IF WE HAD
PATIENTS THE ONLY WAY WE FIGURED WE WERE GETTING THEM OUT OF THERE WAS ON THE FERRY SO WE WANTED SECURE
AREA SO WE COULD TREAT THEM AND GET THEM OUT IT WAS RATHER EERIE NOT HEARING ANYTHING ONTHE RADIO AFTER
THE SECOND TOWER CAME DOWN THE RADIO WAS DEAD FOR
LONG TIME WE DIDNT KNOWIF WE WERE THE ONLY PEOPLE LEFT DOWNTHERE
PARAMEDIC MARQUEZ IT WAS AMAZING HOW RESPONDING BEFORE THE SECOND TOWER FELL AND ALL
THE COMMOTION IN THE STREET ONCE THE BALL IT LOOKED LIKE BALL WAS ROLLING TOWARDS US THIS
SMOKE AND DEBRIS ONCE IT HIT US EVERYTHING JUST

KELLEHER
BECAME SILENT YOU COULD SEE PEOPLE SCREAMING AND YELLING BUT YOU COULDNT HEAR ANYBODY JUST
QUIET INAUDIBLE
PARAMEDIC MARQUEZ EVERYTHING JUST BECAME DARK PITCH BLACK AND QUIET YOU SAW PEOPLE
SCREAMING YELLING AND RUNNING BUT YOU COULDNT
HEAR ANYTHING JUST SILENCE JUST COMPLETE SILENCE YOU COULDNT HEAR
MR ECCLESTON THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR CONDUCTING THIS INTERVIEW WITH ME THE INTERVIEW IS CONCLUDED AT 840 THE SETTING ON THE TAPE COUNTER IS 143

FILE NO 9110029
WORLDTRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW PARAMEDIC FELIX MARQUEZ
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 10 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

MARQUEZ
MR ECCLESTON TODAYS DATE IS OCTOBER 10 2001 THE TIME IS 819 HOURS THIS IS CHRISTOPHER ECCIESTON OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK 1M CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME RANK TITLE AND
ASSIGNED COMMAND AREA REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 112001
FELIX MARQUEZ PARAMEDIC ASSIGNED TO BATTALION 20
MR ECCLESTON ALSO IN THE ROOM IS
PARAMEDIC KELLEHER PARAMEDIC KEVIN
KELLEHER SHIELD 5044 ASSIGNED TO BATTALION 20 WERE YOU ASSIGNED TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
DISASTER ON SEPTEMBER 11 2001
YES WAS ASSIGNED TO 03 XRAY WEWERE DISPATCHED TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
EN ROUTE TO THE ALARM WHAT DID YOU SEE EN ROUTE TO THE ALARM AS WE WAS ON THE
SHERIDAN EXPRESSWAY WE WAS ABLE TO SEE THE TOWERS ON FIRE WE WENT DOWNTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER DOWNTHE
FDR DOWNTHE EAST SIDE
WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
WHERE DID YOU PARK YOURVEHICLE AND WHAT VEHICLE WAS

IT
MARQUEZ
IT WAS VEHICLE 1101 WAS THE DRIVER OF THE WEEXITED OFF THE FOR AROUND BATTERY PARK
VEHICLE
WE WAS HEADED WESTBOUND DOWN MAIDEN LANE WHENTOWER TWO
COLLAPSED WHEN TOWER TWO COLLAPSED WE MADE LEFT
ON TO LIBERTY BACK ON TO BROADWAYTRYING TO MAKE OUR WAY AWAY FROM THE TOWER IT WAS VERY HARD TO SEE DUE
TO ALL THE RUBBLE AND THE DUST REMEMBER ON OUR
RADIO WAS PEOPLE SCREAMING ASKING FOR BACK UP TELLING THAT THE TOWER WAS COLLAPSING
WE WERE TRYING TO MAKE OUR WAYTO HELP TO GET PEOPLE OUT BUT WE WAS UNABLE TO SO WE HEADED DOWN
SOUTH DOWNBROADWAY WHERE WE PICKED UP POLICE LIEUTENANT WHOWAS IN DISTRESS WE PUT HIM INTO THE
BACK OF THE AMBULANCE ME AND KEVIN AND WE PROCEEDED SOUTH BOUND DOWNBROADWAY
AFTER YOU PICKED UP THIS POLICE OFFICER WHERE DID YOU RESPOND WITH HIM
WE HEADED WEJUST KEPT DRIVING
UNTIL WE
GOT TO SAFE DISTANCE AWAY BECAUSE WE WAS UNABLE TO
SEE DUE TO ALL THE DUST AND THE DEBRIS AND ALL THE
STUFF THAT WAS FALLING WE JUST KEPT DRIVING DOWN SOUTHBOUND DOWN BROADWAYUNTIL YOU COULDNT GO MORE NO
MORE WE ENDED UP AT SOUTH FERRY

YOU
MARQUEZ
WHAT HAPPENED WITH THIS POLICE OFFICER DID
THIS POLICE OFFICER WAS AT THE TOWER AND HE WAS ABLE TO GET AWAY HE WAS COMPLAINING OF SEVERE
RESPIRATORY DISTRESS SO WEGOT HIM IN THE BACK AND WE STARTED TREATING HIM AS WAS DRIVING DOWNMY
PARTNER AN EMT NAMED JUAN VEGA WAS TREATING THE
PATIENT WE STOPPED AT SOUTH FERRY TO PROCEED WITH OUR TREATMENT AND CARE FOR THIS POLICE OFFICER
DID YOU TURN OVER CARE AND TREATMENT TO
SOMEBODY ELSE DID YOU STAY WITH HIM OR DID YOU GO BACK UP TO THE SITE
NO WESTAYED WITH THE POLICE OFFICER AND
SINCE WE MADE SOUTH FERRY WE REALIZED THIS WAS
PRETTY
SAFE DISTANCE AWAY FROM THE TOWER GOOD PLACE TO
RESET STAGING SO ME AND MY PARTNER KEVIN KELLEHER
GOT ON THE AIR AND WE SAID STAGING AT SOUTH FERRY
THIS WASBASICALLY THE FIRST TIME YOU PARKED YOUR VEHICLE CAN YOU INDICATE ON THE MAP PROVIDED
TO YOU APPROXIMATELY WHERE YOU STOPPED AND PARKED YOUR VEHICLE
OUR FIRST STOP WHENWE PICKED UP THE POLICE
OFFICER WAS ABOUT LIBERTY AND EXCHANGE SORRY WE CAME DOWNMAIDEN LANE DOWN BROADWAY WE GOT FLAGGED

MARQUEZ
DOWNAROUND EXCHANGE AND BROADWAY TO PICK UP THE POLICE LIEUTENANT THAT WASOUR FIRST STOP WHENWEPICKED
HIM UP
CAN YOU JUST INDICATE ON THE MAP WITH
NUMBER OKAY THEN THE NEXT STOP WHERE YOU STOPPED YOUR VEHICLE
LVS NOT ON THIS MAP LVS AT THE SOUTH FERRY WHERE THE FERRY GOES TO STATEN ISLAND
WHEN YOU STOPPED AT SOUTH FERRY YOU SET UP TRIAGE
YES WE SET UP STAGING
HOWLONG DID YOU STAY THERE FOR
STAYED THERE FOR APPROXIMATELY 12 HOURS WASTHERE FOR APPROXIMATELY 12 HOURS THERE WAS LOT
OF PATIENTS OVER THERE COMPLAINING OF DISTRESS CITY
WORKERS ME AND MY PARTNER PARKED THE AMBULANCE AND
STARTED TREATING PATIENTS
YOU REMAINED IN THAT STAGING AREA YOU DIDNT
GO BACK UP TO GROUND ZERO TO THE SITE NOT UNTIL LATER ON THAT EVENING
NOT UNTIL LATER ONTHAT EVENING OKAY WHO
WASTHE OFFICER RUNNING THAT STAGING AREA DO YOU RECALL
YES AFTER APPROXIMATELY AN HOUR HOUR 45

MARQUEZ
MINUTES AN HOUR CHIEF BASILE CAME TO THE SCENE WHERE WERE YOU WHENTHE SECOND TOWER
COLLAPSED
WEWAS BY MAIDEN LANE AND BROADWAYIN THAT
AREA
WHAT WERE YOU DOING THERE WHENTHE TOWER
COLLAPSED
WEWERE RESPONDING TO UNIT IN DISTRESS
SCREAMING FOR MEDICS
YOU WERESTILL DRIVING
WEWERE STILL DRIVING YES WEWAS TRYING TO MAKE OUR WAYTO THE CORNER OF CHURCH AND BROADWAY
DID YOU MAKE ANY RADIO COMMUNICATIONS THAT
MIGHT BE IMPORTANT TO US
YES WE LET THE DISPATCHER KNOWTHAT THAT
UNIT THAT WASIN DISTRESS AND SCREAMING FOR PARAMEDICS WE TOLD HIM THAT WE WOULD RESPOND TO THAT
LOCATION DISPATCHER ACKNOWLEDGED IT AND WE PROCEEDED 63 EN ROUTE TO CHURCH AND BELIEVE IT WAS CHURCH
AND BROADWAY CHURCH AND VESEY SORRY CHURCH AND
VESEY
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD
TO THIS ANY OTHER INFORMATION YOU MIGHT HAVE ANY FEELINGS OR EMOTIONS ANYTHING YOU NEED TO ADD

MARQUEZ
IT WAS HECTIC DAY OTHER THAN THAT WEDID THE BEST WE COULD DO THAVS PRETTY MUCH IT
MR ECCLESTON THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME THE TIME IS NOW826 THIS CONCLUDES OUR
INTERVIEW THE SETTING ON THE TAPE RECORDER IS 124
File No. 9110030
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW LIEUTENANT PATRICK SCARINGELLO
Interview Date: October 10, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
2 P. SCARINGELLO
MR. ECCLESTON: Today is October 10, 2001. The time is 6:16 a.m. This is Christopher Eccleston of the Fire Department of the City of New York conducting an interview with the following individual.
Q. Please state your name, rank and assigned command area of the Fire Department regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
A. My name is Lieutenant Patrick Scaringello, assigned to Battalion 49, Bureau of EMS.
Q. You were assigned to the World Trade Center disaster?
A. Yes.
Q. En route to the alarm, what did you see? A. I was told to stage at 21 Street and the 59
Street Bridge. Three of my units were already being dispatched across the bridge to respond to the World Trade Center, which would have been 49 Victor, 45 Adam and 49 Henry.
Time frame, as far as I put the time frame, I
can't remember exactly. I don't believe they had completely cleared over the bridge when I was told to respond with the units from the staging area, which was 49 Charlie, 46 William, I believe it was William, and
3 P. SCARINGELLO
49 x-ray, I believe. I'm not too sure right now what they were.
I was mid span at the 59 Street Bridge when I looked to my left and I saw the both towers were involved midway up. We then proceeded off the bridge and I opted against going down the FDR Drive because I figured that was going to be backed up with traffic.
We took the city streets down, local streets, mainly on Broadway. Then I believe it was Second Avenue, we switched back and forth and I was following two unmarked cars. Unmarked law enforcement vehicles.
We got down to Broadway, where originally we
were told to stage at Vesey and Church. I couldn't get
any of my vehicles down Vesey and Church because there were numerous vehicles parked there. So I parked them
on Broadway, I continued down, parked my command car on Cortlandt between Broadway and Church. I then reported
to the triage area at Church and Fulton, where I was
advised to try to get the units, trying to get things
as close as we could to that area.
Then I went back up. I went back up to Broadway and advised the units to follow me down to Fulton, where I staged at Fulton and Broadway and reported down to the triage unit. As I reported back
4 P. SCARINGELLO
to the triage area, Captain Olszewski had requested that I find some more triage tags, to help in triage.
In doing so I was also helping to evacuate people from buildings and they were coming across the street and out of the subway.
I got back to my truck. I got triage tags.
I went back down to Fulton and Church, whereupon I found the Captain. Lt. Davila, Lt. Medjuck were elsewhere treating patients. I started to treat
patients on my own when I heard the explosion from up above. I looked up, I saw smoke and flame and then I saw the top tower tilt, start to twist and lean.
With that, there was a massive influx of
humanity rushing past me. Most of the people had made it through the triage area. Some had stumbled and fallen. I grabbed them, helped them underneath, and behind a police van, whereupon I put my body over them, about 4 people that I can remember. We rode out the first tower in that location. Once it had lightened
up, because the smoke and ash had darkened everything down, once it had lightened up, I instructed all four people to hold my hand. We crossed over on Fulton against the wall from Saint Pauls cemetery and I instructed them to follow me up to Broadway against, on
5 P. SCARINGELLO
the sidewalk against the wall.
Halfway up, someone met us there, I believe
from the Police Department, I handed them off to them and returned back into Fulton and Church. I was assisting in pulling more people out from debris, when I heard the second tower explode. When I tried to evacuate the area, by running up Fulton, got halfway up. I couldn't get into any doorway, where I found a window that was partially broken, I broke the rest of the glass and went through and into the building.
Found myself in a lobby of sorts, I believe
it was the Thompson's Financial Building. I entered into the lobby. I found approximately 50 people. I announced who I was, asked if there was any police officers or firemen in the building or in the lobby. I had one fireman I identified complaining of a laceration to the back of his left leg. There was a
Port Authority police officer, myself and the police officer tried to bandage the fireman's leg as best we could, with whatever we could find. I then instructed all the people there that -- once the outside cleared from the smoke and debris from the second tower, I walked them out the door, again holding hands across the street.
6 P. SCARINGELLO
When we got across Broadway, I told them to make a left and head north on Broadway. Once all the police had evacuated that building, I went back down Fulton and again continued to try to find people in the rubble.
Q. Can you just indicate on the map exactly where you parked your vehicle or to the best of your knowledge when you arrived on the scene?
A. When I first arrived on the scene, I was
halfway down Cortlandt Street, reported to the triage area, which was in front of the Millennium Hotel. I
ran down Cortlandt to Church and up Church to the Millennium, where they advised me to restage my vehicles on Broadway. I went back to my vehicle. Made a u-turn on Cortlandt, came up to Broadway, and parked it on the corner of Fulton and Broadway and then reported back down to the triage area.
Q. Can you just put a number 1 where you first parked your vehicle and number 2 where you moved your vehicle to? Do you happen to remember which vehicle number this was?
A. 840.
Q. 840. Did you ever enter any of the World Trade Center buildings prior to their collapse?
7 P. SCARINGELLO
A. No, never got a chance to. I was involved in patient care at the triage area.
Q. Did you remove any civilians to hospitals or just away from the scene?
A. Just away from the scene. Most of the
civilians that I did see, did have contact with were walking wounded. They were very ambulatory. Most who had any sort of injury did not affect them moving away from the scene.
Q. You had told me when you were traveling there you had several units with you. Can you tell me the personnel there were on those units, to the best of your recollection?
A. Two of the units were voluntary units. I
think it was 49 x-ray or 49 William. The other one was 46, either a 46 William, one was a William, one was a (inaudible).
Q. Do you know the names of the people that were on that unit?
A. No.
Q. How about any Fire Department units?
A. 49 Charlie was behind me. That was Brendon
Mulroy and I think his partner was Mario, I'm not sure now. I think it was Mario Ramirez.
8 P. SCARINGELLO
Q. That was the only Fire Department unit you had with you?
A. That was 49 Charlie, yes. The other three already went over the bridge. That was 9 Victor, 5 Adam and 9 Henry. They were already ahead of us.
Q. Okay. Was there any important radio communications that you made?
A. None other than advising Citywide where we were staged and what I had there and them telling me to respond. We responded I believe right after the second tower was hit. I think Citywide just pulled the pin.
No, I don't even think it was Citywide. I think we were still on Queens. Queens just said respond in, send everything in.
Q. Is there anything else you would like to add to this interview?
A. What else do you need?
Q. Anything else you would like to add, any feelings, emotions, anything?
A. I did stay in the area. In fact I worked my
way up because there was nobody else around, no EMS personnel, I worked my way up eventually to Church --
to Chambers and West, where they had a command post.
Q. What kind of command post is that?
9 P. SCARINGELLO
A. A haphazard one. Everybody was looking for some sort of direction to go in, but they were trying to regroup at the time.
Q. Do you remember who was in charge of the command post there?
A. Pick a Chief. Pick a Chief. They were all
there and everybody had something to say. I inquired 4 or 5 times where my partner was.
Q. Can you tell me which Chiefs were there that you remember seeing?
A. J.P . Martin, Perrugia, Carassquillo. That's about all I can remember right now. But I was able to work my way back down West Street and I did find my partner, Lieutenant Yioras.
Q. Do you know about what time this was that you got to this command post?
A. It was well after tower one fell, which was the second tower.
Q. Well after meaning an hour, two hours, three hours?
A. No, I don't think it was an hour. It may
have been maybe 40 minutes at most. I did find my partner. We then worked our way up West Street or down West Street toward the center again, where we came upon
10 P. SCARINGELLO
a Captain, Captain McFarland. She instructed us that she was looking for some of our people that were there and she had instructed Lieutenant Yioras and I to work our way back up toward Church to see if anybody was there. We did go past -- we went up Church, we went up Vesey, past 7 Trade, which at the time didn't look like
it was involved, but we found later on that it was. We crossed over. Then we wound up on Barclay. No, we wound up -- came up Vesey.
There was a -- they started setting up a
medical triage treatment area in a building, an office building, lobby of an office building there. Chief Wells was there. Lieutenant Race, Chief Wells instructed me to set up transport and staging, which I did on Vesey. About that time is when Lieutenant Yioras advised me that he started getting chest pains.
We had it checked out. I then set up -- I
brought a unit up, and was ready to have him
transported along with EMT Adams, Paul Adams, who was also complaining of more pain. They were placed in an ambulance and they were dispatched to hospital 71.
This is the part that steams me. Somewhere between where we sent them out from that section to hospital
71, the ambulance was stopped by one of our
11 P. SCARINGELLO
Lieutenants. Told both of them to step out of the ambulance, that it wasn't an emergency, commandeered the ambulance and they were later on placed in another ambulance and then brought to hospital 71. Okay.
At that time, after they were gone, I worked
my way back down with the voluntary units, I don't remember which ones they were, where I set up the voluntary units in the staging. I worked my way down to the corner of Church and Vesey, where I was told they brought a patient into the Church, which later I found out to be Father Judge.
They worked on Father Judge in the church where he expired. We then had a unit standing by. We put his body in an ambulance and dispatched that ambulance out. We then were told by PD that the area was possibly in a collapse zone because of tower 7. We evacuated the church. As I was leaving the church there was a small man sitting on one of the pews. I
ran back in the Church. I found it to be one of the Fathers, a priest, saying his rosary. I went in and I excused myself for interrupting him in the middle of
his rosary. I advised him we were in a collapse zone and we had to leave, which we did. Just before we left the church he advised me that the sacrament was still
12 P. SCARINGELLO
in the tabernacle. I told him that I would try to find somebody to remove it. I then escorted him down the stairs. I handed him off to another person, to another set of EMTs, who walked him up the street.
Went back in the Church. I went up to the altar. I was looking, yelling for somebody who was there. No response. I quickly left the building because of the possibility of being in a collapse zone.
I then stayed down in that corner helping to evacuate people that came out of any of the other buildings.
Q. Do you know about what time we are talking now, time frame?
A. I would say probably about 45 minutes to an
hour before 7 dropped, because when tower 7 dropped, I was on Vesey and Church.
Q. This was before tower 7 dropped?
A. This is just before tower 7 dropped.
Q. Tower 7 fell at approximately 5:25.
A. Like I said, I spent the majority of my time
with the exception of the time that I went up to Chambers, all my time was spent on the east side of 7, because that's where my first three units came in on
13 P. SCARINGELLO
the west side. The three units I brought in were on the east side. I tried to make sure those people were accounted for.
I got halfway up to the corner of Church and
Vesey when tower 7 dropped, which basically the concussion just blew me across the street and I came up again besides, past Saint Pauls and it was already late
at night and it was dark. The smoke didn't help it
any, the dust and everything else. I was hit in the
back of the head with something that came out of one of the buildings, which later I found out to be a water pitcher.
They had evacuated that medical zone earlier, which I was involved in making sure my vehicles were out of there, again, just making sure that nobody was in the area. They told me that they were relocating to Pace. I had started to come up, I tried to find my command car, which I knew where I left. Unfortunately it wasn't there. I came walking back. I went as far
as Cortlandt and all the way back down to Barclay. I kept saying I knew where I left my command car, that's when I realized somebody had stolen my command car.
Q. Did you ever retrieve your command car?
A. From what I understood the next day somebody
14 P. SCARINGELLO
said that they had called here asking if that was ours, they found it on 14 Street and Irving Avenue.
Q. We are going to try to concern with anything that happened before noon. That's what we are trying to concentrate on, not the later part of the day. Is there anything you need to add to this on anything that happened before 12 noon?
A. You know, I tell you the God's honest truth,
Chris, once you got there I didn't even notice the
time. Couldn't even tell time. Once the first tower
came down, there was no such thing as a watch. My main function was looking for people, pulling people out and making sure they were safe. We never got into any building. The only thing I dealt with was from
Cortlandt to Barclay, from Broadway to I guess West. That area was my main concentration, with the exception of the way I worked my way around to Chambers.
There was -- after both towers, I was still
looking for people, I did run into Lieutenant Davila
and another -- I'm sorry, not Davila, Lieutenant Medjuck and one of our telemetry doctors, I believe, they were telling me I had to go to -- they had to
report to the Battery. When they started walking north and I kept telling them, no, you're going the wrong
15 P. SCARINGELLO
way. They in turn walked back. We did go down to -- we did walk down to Beekman Downtown.
I went into the ER to check to see if any of
our people were there. I came back out. They were gone. So I worked my way back into this area to get to try to reestablish something and find out who was there. I never again saw Captain Olszewski. I don't know what ever happened to her or where she went. I seemed to be the only one in this area. Everyone else I would imagine was gathered on the south, they were all around here.
Q. Along the west side?
A. Along the west side, because I think that's where the main body of people were advised to report to.
Q. Is there anything else you feel you need to add to this?
A. No, just that this was the big one everybody trains for.
MR. ECCLESTON: It certainly was. I thank you very much for the interview. The time is 6:41. The counter on the tape player is 375.

FILE NO 9110031
WORLDTRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER RICHARD BILLY
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 10 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

BILLY
MR CASTORINA TODAYS DATE IS OCTOBER 10 2001 MY NAME IS RON CASTORINA 1M AT ENGINE
24
ACCOMPANIED WITH ME IS
MR MCCOURT TOM MCCOURT
WEARE HERE TO INTERVIEW
FIREFIGHTER RICHARD BILLY ENGINE COMPANY 24
FIREFIGHTER BILLY ON SEPTEMBER11 CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THAT DAY WHERE YOU WERE AND WHAT
HAPPENED
WEGOT CALL FOR AN EXPLOSION IN THE WORLD
TRADE CENTER NUMBER ROUGHLY ABOUT QUARTER TO NINE AROUND THERE GOT THERE FEW MINUTES LATER THINK
WE PARKED THE RIG ON WEST AND VESEY
MR CASTORINA EXCUSE ME ONE SECOND THE
TIME IS 1123 SORRY GO AHEAD
OKAY THEN WEENTERED THE NORTH TOWER ON THE
MAP THERE FOR WORLDTRADE CENTER WEWERE IN THE
LOBBY FOR MINUTE OR TWO WE FOLLOWED OUR COMPANY FOLLOWED LADDER 20 BELIEVE IT WASLADDER 20
DONT REMEMBER THIS STAIRWELL BUT BELIEVE WE FOLLOWED LADDER 20 WE BASICALLY WERE GOING UP WITH
OUR ROLLUPS AND OUR EQUIPMENT WETOOK BREATHER ON FLOOR NUMBER 29 AND WITH LADDER 20 ALSO
AFTER WHILE WE WERE THERE FOR COUPLE OF

BILLY
MINUTES AND THEN TAKING BREATHER LIEUTENANT HANSSON OF MY OF ENGINE COMPANY 24 TOLD ME THERE WAS
CIVILIAN HANDICAPPED PERSON WITH FRIEND OF HIS ON
THE 29TH FLOOR HE TOLD ME TO STAY WITH HIM BECAUSE WE WERE RIDING HEAVY WE HAD AN EXTRA GUY HAD
RADIO HE TOLD ME TO STAY WITH HIM THEY WENT UP TO
COUPLE OF MORE FLOORS TO THE STAGING AREA BELIEVE THEY WENT TO 35 1M NOT SURE WAS WITH THEM FOR FEW MINUTES
WHAT HAPPENS IS COUPLE OF OTHER PEOPLE CAME BY THEY WANTED TO LOOK AT THEIR OFFICE DONT KNOW
WHY BUT FOR SOME REASON ABOUT THAT TIME DONT
KNOWEXACTLY WHATTIME DONT HAVE THE TIMES DOWN
BUT THERE WAS COLLAPSE AT THIS TIME NEVER KNEW
THAT NUMBER WORLD TRADE CENTER WAS EVER HIT AT THIS
POINT 1M THINKING IVS THE TOP OF OUR FLOOR OUR BUILDING NUMBER THAVS WHAT 1M THINKING
AT THAT MOMENT OF THE COLLAPSE THERE WAS
CAPTAIN FROM THE 21 ENGINE NAMED WILLIAM BURKE HAPPENED TO KNOWHIM BECAUSE HE USED TO BE FIREMAN AT 24 HE SHOWSUP AT THAT TIME 1M WITH THIS
HANDICAPPED PERSON ALONE WILLIAM BURKE CAPTAIN
WILLIAM BURKE AND HIS MEN SHOWHIM UP AND TOLD HIM HAVE THIS HANDICAPPED 1M WITH HIM ALONE HE TOOK

BILLY
OVER FOR ME AT THAT MOMENT HE WAS TO GO WITH THE
HANDICAPPED PERSON AND HIS FRIEND
AT ABOUT THAT MOMENT LIEUTENANT HANSSON CAME
DOWN AND THE OTHER MEN FROM 24 CAME DOWN AND SAID RICH IEVS GO WE STARTED PROCEEDING DOWNFROM THE 29TH
FLOOR
WERE YOU GEFFING ANY RADIO TRANSMISSIONS BECAUSE YOU SAID YOU HAD RADIO
HAD RADIO BUT REALLY CANT RECALL
HEARING ANYTHING HE JUST TOLD ME WE HAD TO LEAVE GOT TO ABOUT THE SECOND OR THIRD FLOOR AND THERE WAS FIREMAN FROM SQUAD 18 NAMED PAT KELLY HE SAID HE
NEEDED HELP THERE WAS ANOTHER PERSON WHOCOULDNT WALK THINK HE HAD BROKEN LEGS 1M NOT SURE WHAT
WE DID WAS WE SPLIT UP ME AND LIEUTENANT HANSSON AND FIREFIGHTER STERLING WENTWITH PAT KELLY THE OTHER
TWO THINK CONTINUED DOWNTHAT STAIRWELL WHEREVER
THAT WAS
WE WENT THROUGH THE BUILDING INTO WITH
FIREFIGHTER KELLY FROM 18 TO HELP WITH THIS OTHER
HANDICAPPED DONT THINK HE WAS HANDICAPPED THINK HE HAD BROKEN LEGS 1M NOT SURE HE COULDNT
WALK
WAS HE HEAVY SET MALE

BILLY
YES VERY HEAVY AND WE HAD PORT AUTHORITY
COPS WITH US TOO SO WE GOT HIM DOWNANOTHER FLIGHT OF
STAIRS GUESS IN TO SOME KIND OF LOBBY WE DRAGGED
HIM ACROSS GOT TO THE ENTRANCE OR THE EXIT BUILDING NUMBER
DO YOU WANT TO MARK IT OFF SOMEWHEREAROUND HERE WHATEVER THE EXIT IS
HERE WE RAN ACROSS TO BUILDING NUMBER US THREE
FROM 24 ENGINE LIEUTENANT HANSSON ME AND STERLING PAT KELLY ANOTHER FIREMAN AND COUPLE OF PA COPS
RAN AT THAT POINT THEY HAD ENOUGH MEN BETWEEN THE PA AND THEY HAD ENOUGH MEN TO TAKE CARE OF HIM WE HAD WAY TOO MANY MEN WE STARTED TO LEAVE 24
AT THAT MOMENTTHE COLLAPSE CAME AS FOUND OUT THAT WOULD BE IN OUR BUILDING WE WENT ACROSS WE RAN ACROSS OVER HERE IT STARTED COLLAPSING AFTER
THAT WE COULDNT SEE ANYTHING IT WAS ALL VERY DARK
AND BROWN COULDNT SEE ANYTHING WE ARE JUST
WAITING 1M THINKING WE ARE TRAPPED WAS GIVING MAYDAY BELIEVE THINK THE ONLY RESPONSE
DID YOU TAKE COVER SOMEWHERE
WE WENT BACK INTO THE BUILDING AFTER WE
CAME DOWNTHE BUILDING OVERHANG BECAUSE THE BUILDING HAD AN OVERHANG

BILLY
AS IT WAS COMING DOWNWHERE WERE YOU WAS ABOUT HERE
YOU HAD AN OVERHANG OVER HERE
THERE WAS AN OVERHANG KIND OF LIKE AN
OVERHANG THAVS IT WE SURVIVED FOUND STERLING
BUT COULDNT FIND HANSSON THOUGHT HE WAS DEAD WENT BACK IN HERE LITTLE BIT AND CAME BACK OUT
THOUGHT WE WERE TRAPPED SO GAVE MAYDAYS OUT
DONT THINK HEARD SOMEBODYRESPONDED WHAT ENDED UP BEING HANSSON THINK THOUGHT HE WAS THERE THOUGHT IT WAS SOMEBODY ELSE FROM 24 DONT THINK WE WERE TRAPPED AFTER WHILE IT LIFTED WE SAW SOME
LIGHT HERE
DID YOU GET INJURED IN ANY WAY ANYBODY GET
MIU RED
NO ONLY ABRASIONS OF THE EYES SO RAN
OVER HERE AND THERE IS SORT OF LIKE 30 FOOT DROP SO
DIDNT WANT TO JUMP WHAT STREET IS THAT
VESEY LIKE 30 FOOT DROP IF HAD TO
WOULD HAVE JUMPED BUT WAITED LITTLE BIT MORE WE FOUND STAIRS OVER HERE THERE WERESTAIRS HERE THAT
LED TO THE STREET AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE AROUND HERE THERE IS STAIRS OUTSIDE STAIRS WENT DOWNTHEN

BILLY
CAME OUT ACTUALLY CAME OUT WITH PAT KELLY AND SOME
OTHER FIREMAN FOUND OUT LATER THINK STERLING HAVE JUMPED OVER HERE 1M NOT SURE HANSSON THOUGHT WAS MISSING WHEN CAME OUT OF HERE
MUST
ONCE YOU CAME OUT WHERE DID YOU END UP
LSAWSOMEKINDOFCOMMANDPOSTOUTSIDE SOMEWHEREMAYBE AROUND HERE 1M NOT SURE
YOU WORKED YOURWAY OVER THERE
YES THEN 1M LIKE IN DAZE SO KEPT
WALKING AROUND THEN FOUND SOMEOTHER GUYS FROM 24 THAT CAME IN ON THEIR OWN
THEN YOU STARTED MEETING UP WITH PEOPLE THEN WASTAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL BECAUSE
COULDNT
EYES
MY EYES WERE KILLING ME
HOWWAS YOUR BREATHING
MY BREATHING WAS ALL RIGHT
SO YOU WERE TREATED AND RELEASED
YES
WHAT HOSPITAL DID YOU GO TO
THE NYU DOWNTOWNRIGHT BY PACE UNIVERSITY ANYTHING ELSE YOU REMEMBER OR WANT TO ADD
YOU HAVE PRETTY MUCH COVERED EVERYTHING IF THERE IS

BILLY
ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANTTO ADD HOWWAS THE LIGHTING IN THE STAIRS AND THE SMOKE CONDITIONS INITIALLY WHEN YOU
WERE IN THE BUILDING
THERE WAS NO SMOKE YOU MEAN GOING UP
YES WHENYOU WERE GOING UP WHEN YOU WERE ON THE 20TH FLOOR HELPING
29TH
29TH HOWWAS THAT FLOOR WAS THERE ANY
SMOKE OR ANYTHING NO
EVERYTHING LOOKED NORMAL
EVERYTHING LOOKED NORMAL NEVER KNEWTHE
OTHER TOWER WAS HIT
WHEN THE BUILDING STARTED COLLAPSING YOU HEARD THE RUMBLE AND
WHICH BUILDING THE OTHER ONE YES
HEARD THAT NEVER
WHERE WERE YOU AT THAT POINT
ON THE 29 FLOOR
ON THE 29 FLOOR IN OTHER WORDSWHEN YOU
GOT THE SIGNAL FROM LIEUTENANT HANSSON LEVS GO YOU WERE UP IN THE 29TH
YES WITH THE HANDICAPPED PERSON THAT WAS

BILLY
TAKEN OVER BY CAPTAIN BURKE AND HIS MEN
OKAY ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO ADD NO
MR CASTORINA OKAY THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW THE TIME NOW IS 1133 AM
File No. 9110033
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER RICHARD SARACELLI
Interview Date: October 10, 2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
2 R. Saracelli
MR. MURAD: The time is 1000 hours and I am Murray Murad with Richard Dunn of the Fire Department of the City of New York. I am conducting an interview with Lieutenant --
A. Richard Saracelli, Ladder 49, Bronx. I
have 32 years on the job.
MR. MURAD: The location of the
interview is being conducted at Engine 68, located at 1160 Ogden Avenue in the borough of the Bronx. This is regarding the tragic event on September 11, 2001.
Q. Lieutenant, give us your perspective on
what happened that day and your involvement with your unit that responded.
A. As I understand it, you're looking for a historical perspective on the incidents of
September 11th. I came in for the recall. I was
off duty that morning. I came for the recall and
that evening we went down and acted as Ladder 1 for the next four days.
My interest in the historical perspective of
this goes back to the mid 60s when that building was commissioned, designed, and built. I want to know what the building industry is doing building
3 R. Saracelli
buildings 110 stories tall with no way for us to effectively fight a fire on an upper floor and no way for people in those buildings to evacuate in a serious fire incident.
A lot of what is going to come down to rest
here is why were those buildings built so far beyond the human scale? Why did the City of New York allow them to be built not under New York City building code. Why do people build buildings that people cannot evacuate from and that the Fire Department cannot fight fires in on an upper floor. It just
makes no sense.
When I watched those buildings being constructed and since their construction, I've been up in them, I've looked at them and they were always dangerous looking to me. I would never, ever have worked in a building like that. It's just common sense that those things cannot be evacuated in a serious incident. This has to be looked into. We cannot allow the building industry to keep putting buildings up like that where we can't deal with it. Where it's so far beyond human scale that humans cannot deal with a tragedy when it takes place.
That's all I'm going to say.
4 R. Saracelli
MR. MURAD: This concludes the interview. The time now is 1003 hours. I would like to thank the lieutenant for this interview and this now concludes the interview at Engine 68 and Ladder 49.

FILE NO 9110034
WORLDTRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW LIEUTENANT JOHN ZANAT
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 10 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELIZABETH SANTAMARIA

ZANAT
MR MURAD TODAY IS OCTOBER 10 2001
THE TIME IS 0940 HOURS AND MY NAME IS MURRAY MURAD WITH RICHARD DUN OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK AM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH LIEUTENANT
MY NAME IS LIEUTENANT JOHN ZANAT AND 1M
COVERING ENGINE 68
MR MURAD THE LOCATION OF THE
INTERVIEW IS AT 1160 OGDENAVENUE IN THE BOROUGH OF THE BRONX
LIEUTENANT CAN YOU GIVE SCENARIO OF
WHAT TOOK PLACE AND THE ACTIONS INVOLVED WITH ENGINE
68 WERE ON THAT DAY
WEWEREASSIGNED ONTHE FIFTH ALARM
SPECIAL CALL ON THE FIFTH ALARM WE REPORTED FIRST
TO ENGINE 35 IN MANHAFFAN NUMBER OF ENGINE COMPANIES FROM THE BRONX WERE ASSIGNED THERE WHEN ALL OF US ARRIVED THERE THE DISPATCHER SENT US DOWN
TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER TO REPORT TO THE COMMAND CENTER ON WEST END AVENUE AND VESEY STREET
THERE IS MAP HERE JUST HIGHLIGHT THE AREA WHERE IF YOU RECALL THE APPARATUS WHERE YOU ACTUALLY RESPONDED TO
OKAY THIS IS LEVS SEE THIS IS

ZANAT
WHERE WE WERE TOLD WEST AND VESEY TO REPORT THIS
IS WHERE WE WERE TOLD THE COMMAND CENTER WAS THAT WAS THE COMMAND CENTER
THAVS WHERE WE WERE TOLD TO REPORT TO THAVS WHERE BELIEVE THE COMMAND
CENTER WAS OUR APPARATUS WAS PARKED WAY BACK HERE PAST CHAMBERS STREET AS WE WERE COMING DOWNWEST
END AVENUE COULD SEE THE FIRST PLANE HAD HIT IT MUST HAVE BEEN IT LOOKED LIKE TO ME IT LOOKED LIKE OR STORIES
YOU ARE DESCRIBING THE NORTH TOWER
THE NORTH TOWER THERE WERE FLAMES COMING
OUT SMOKE EVERYTHING AT THAT TIME DIDNT EVEN KNOWTHAT THE SOUTH TOWER HAD COME DOWNALREADY IT
HAD COMEDOWNPREVIOUS TO US EVEN GEFFING THAT CLOSE
WHAT TIME DO YOU ESTIMATE YOU ARRIVED ON THE SCENE
BETWEEN 1000 AND 1030 SOMETIME
BECAUSE THINK THE SOUTH TOWER WENT DOWN AT LIKE 1000
WEWEREONOURWAYDOWNWHENIT CAMEDOWN WEWERE COMING FROM ENGINE 35 WHICH IS 125TH AND THIRD AVENUE SO WEWERE ON OUR WAY DOWNWHEN THAT
RIGHT

ZANAT
TOWER PROBABLY CAME DOWN WE DIDNT KNOWIT AT THE
TIME WHEN WE ARRIVED ON WEST END AVENUE WE WERE COMING SOUTH TOWARDSIT YOU COULD SEE THE NORTH TOWER BUT NOT THE SOUTH TOWER JUST THOUGHT IT
WAS OBSCURED FROM THE NORTH TOWER BEING THERE AND
ALL THE SMOKE AND FLAMES
AS FAR AS ANYTHING BEING IN THE STREET WE
DIDNT NOTICE ANYTHING ON WEST END WE PARKED WAY BACK HERE PAST CHAMBERS STREET AND WEWEREJUST WALKING UP TO THE COMMAND POST BECAUSE ALL THE
OTHER APPARATUS WERE AHEAD OF US AND WE PROBABLY WERE RIGHT ABOUT SOMEWHERE BETWEEN MURRAY AND VESEY STREET WHENWE HEARD THE RUMBLING OF THE NORTH
TOWER
ONCE WEHEARD THAT RUMBLE IT WASLIKE ITS
COMING DOWN AND EVERYBODY JUST TURNED AROUND AND
HIGHTAILED IT WE GOT PROBABLY UP TO ABOUT CHAMBERS STREET WHENTHE DUST PILE FINALLY CAUGHT UP TO US
AND SOME LIKE US WENT INTO BUILDING RIGHT ON THE CORNER OF CHAMBERS STREET AND SOMEJUST KEPT RUNNING STRAIGHT
WAS THERE ANY RADIO CONTACT OR WERE YOU TOLD TO SWITCH TO CERTAIN CHANNEL
NOT AT THAT TIME AND IF THERE WAS

ZANAT
REALLY WASNTPAYING ATTENTION AT THIS TIME WE
THOUGHT WE WERE RUNNING FOR OUR LIVES WE DIDNT KNOWHOWCLOSE WEWERE WEDIDNT KNOWIF ANYTHING
FROM THE TOWER ANY DEBRIS FROM THE TOWER IT WAS
GOING TO BE COMING DOWNHITTING US
THIS IS WHERE YOU HEARD WHERE THE YOU
GUYS WERE ENGINE 68 NO
1M MAKING AN ARROWJUST TO
ALL RIGHT WAS MORE CONCERNED ABOUT MY
GUYS AND WHAT WAS HAPPENING WHEN WAS RUNNING AS OPPOSED TO WHAT WAS HAPPENING ON THE RADIO
AFTER THE SECOND TOWER CAME DOWNWHAT DID
YOU GUYS DO
WAS REGROUPING ACTUALLY HAD ONE
OF MY MEN GOT SEPARATED WAS LOOKING FOR HIM DID YOU ACCOUNT FOR EVERYBODY EVENTUALLY YES ACCOUNTED FOR
EVERYBODY AND THEN WE WERE TOGETHER GOT MY GUYS TOGETHER AND TOLD CHIEF DALY AND HE WAS TELLING US OKAY YOU GUYS WERE HERE DURING THE FIRST
ACTUALLY THOUGHT IT WAS THE FIRST COLLAPSE
DIDNT KNOWTHAT THE FIRST BUILDING HAD COME DOWN
SO TOLD THEM WE WERE HERE FOR THE FIRST COLLAPSE

ZANAT
HE SAID OKAY GO SIT ON THE SIDE EVERYBODY WAS
TELLING ME GO SIT ON THE SIDE THEY WOULDNT LET
US DO ANYTHING
AT THE TIME COUPLE OF MY GUYS WERE KIND OF
SHAKEN UP AND PROBABLY WOULDNT HAVE BEEN TOO GOOD AS FAR AS DOING ANY WORK ANYWAY AT THIS TIME WHEN WE WERE TURNING JUST TOLD HIM WE WERE TURNING AROUND AND RUNNING IT WAS FEELING LIKE WE WERE RUNNING FOR OUR LIVES ACTUALLY
WAS THERE THAT DAY TOO WAS AT 1010 HOUSE HEARD THE PLANE FIRST COMING OVER THE FIREHOUSE
ACTUALLY SAW THAT ON TAPE WHENTHE SECOND PLANE HIT SEEN IT ON TAPE HERE AT THE FIREHOUSE WASNTTHAT EXCITED OVER IT DIDNT REALIZE THE MAGNITUDE OF IT
SO THE SECOND TOWER CAME DOWN YOU GUYS HAD SAFE LOCATION AND DO YOU REMEMBER THE CHIEFS NAME AT ALL OR
EVERYBODY WAS RUNNING NOBODY KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON
MR MURAD WOULD LIKE TO THANK LIEUTENANT ZANAT FOR THE INTERVIEW IT IS NOW 0945 HOURS AND THIS CONCLUDES THIS

ZANAT
PORTION OF THE INTERVIEW THANK YOU

FILE NO 9110035
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW PARAMEDIC DANIEL RIVERA
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 10 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

RIVERA
MS BASTEDEN BECK TODAY IS OCTOBER 10TH 2001 THE TIME IS 1520 HOURS MY NAME IS CHRIS BASTEDENBECK WORK FOR THE NEWYORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT 1M CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME YOUR RANK YOUR TITLE WHERE YOURE ASSIGNED
PARAMEDIC RIVERA DANIEL RIVERA
PARAMEDIC 1M ASSIGNED TO BATTALION 31 STATION 36 IN BROOKLYN
1D JUST LIKE YOU TO GIVE ME THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
OKAY BASICALLY STARTED MY WE
WERE GASSING UP AT TILLARY AND GOLD STREET WHICH
IS TWO BLOCKS AWAY FROM THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE WHEN WE HEARD THE COMMOTION OVER THE PD RADIO THAT
PLANE JUST HIT ONE OF THE TOWERS
WE GOT ON THE BRIDGE BECAUSE WEWERE
AGAIN TWO BLOCKS AWAY FROM THERE AND CALLED THE DISPATCHER OVER THE RADIO ACTUALLY OVER THE
PHONE CAUSE THE RADIO WASREALLY BAD AND LET THEM KNOWTHAT WE WERE ON OUR WAY TO THAT CALL SHE SAID 104 AND SHE ASSIGNED US THE JOB THAT

RIVERA
WAS TWO MINUTES AFTER THE FIRST PLANE HIT
THE DISPATCHER THAT YOU SPOKE TO WAS
THE BROOKLYN DISPATCHER
YES BROOKLYN
SO IT TOOK US ABOUT FOUR MINUTES TO GET
TO THE SCENE BECAUSE WE WERE REALLY REALLY CLOSE WEPARKED IN FRONT OF THE SOUTH TOWER
RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING
WHEN YOU SAY RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE
BUILDING
RIGHT HERE ACTUALLY IN FRONT OF FOUR
WORLD TRADE CENTER AND IN BACK OF THE SOUTH TOWER
BUILDING
OKAY SO SOMEWHERE RIGHT IN THE
COMPLEX
RIGHT IN THE FRONT RIGHT HERE MAYBE ABOUT ONE YARD AWAY FROM THE SOUTH TOWER
BUILDING
SO THAT WAS WHEN YOU FIRST ARRIVED
RIGHT
THERE WAS LOT OF PEOPLE RUNNING JUST EVERY DIRECTION AND SEVERAL PEOPLE WERE HURT AT THAT TIME WAS TREATING ONE PATIENT WHOWAS ON THE GROUND WITH LACERATION TO HIS FOREHEAD

RIVERA
AND ACTUALLY THINK IT WAS TOTAL OF THREE
PATIENTS ONE ASTHMATIC AND DONT REMEMBER THE
OTHER PATIENT
AS WAS TREATING THE PATIENT WITH THE LACERATION AND THE ASTHMATIC PATIENT THAVS WHEN
THE SECOND PLANE HIT ALL HEARD WASJUST THUNDEROUS NOISE AS LOOKED UP SAW BALL OF FLAMES COMING DOWN SO EVERYONE RAN THE PATIENTS AND EVERYONE
RAN NOT TOO FAR COUPLE STEPS
BEHIND ME NEXT TO THIS DOUGHNUT CART AND HID UNDERTHERE UNTIL EVERYTHING WAS CLEAR AND WE WENT RIGHT BACK BASICALLY THAVS WHEN
REALIZED IT WAS TERRORIST ATTACK
BASICALLY THERE WERE TOO MANY PATIENTS AT THE TIME AND YOU REALLY COULDNT TRIAGE
ANYONE IT WASJUST TOO DANGEROUS THE SCENE WASNT SAFE SO WE WERE JUST BASICALLY
HELPING AT THAT POINT DONT KNOWWHAT 1M
TALKING
ABOUT EVERYONE PRETTY MUCH SPLIT UP THEN WENT AND STARTED DIRECTING
PEOPLE FROM THE BUILDING FROM THE SOUTH TOWER TO GET OUT BECAUSE AS THEY WERE COMING OUT OF THE BUILDING THEY WERE GETTING ON THEIR PHONES

RIVERA
AND TALKING AND BLOCKING THE ENTRANCE SO WE JUST SAID LEVS GO YOUVE GOT TO GO
DID YOU GO INTO THE BUILDING ACTUALLY YES WENT INTO THE SOUTH TOWER
BUILDING BUT CAME RIGHT OUT RIGHT BY THE DOORS WASTRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHYTHERE WASNTTOO
MANY PEOPLE COMING OUT LIKE SAID THERE WAS LOT OF PEOPLE ON THEIR CELL PHONES GUESS WHEN
THEY GOT TO THE LOBBY THEY THOUGHT IT WAS SAFE AND THEY DECIDED TO JUST GET ON THEIR CELL PHONES AND TALK AND BLOCK THE ENTRANCES WAS MAKING SURE THAT THE ENTRANCES WERE CLEAR SO EVERYONE CAN PASS
THE SOUTH TOWER DO YOU KNOWIF YOU
WERE OUT ON LIBERTY STREET DONT REMEMBER
YOU DONT REMEMBER OKAY
DONT REMEMBER YOU KNOWWHAT
COULD HAVE BEEN ON THIS SIDE DONT REMEMBER THAT
BASICALLY ONCE DID THAT GOT
TOGETHER WITH MY PARTNER AND HE MOVED THE
VEHICLE TWO BLOCKS BEHIND SOMEWHERE AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE BEHIND FOUR WORLD TRADE CENTER

THINK
RIVERA
LIKE BY TRINITY
YEAH AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE AROUND
YEAH LIBERTY AND AROUND HERE SOMEWHERETRINITY AND LIBERTY AROUND HERE THINK
ONCE WE SAW ALL THAT HAPPENING WE NEEDED TO MOVE THE BUS
OKAY
SO WHAT ELSE HAPPENED
WHEN YOU MOVED OUT THE BUS OUT TO
THERE DID YOU SEE ANYBODY ANY EMS SUPERVISORS
OR FIREMEN SUPERVISORS
THERE WAS SUPERVISOR BUT HE WAS
PRETTY MUCH OVERWHELMED BUT DONT REMEMBER HIS NAME HE WAS PRETTY MUCH OVERWHELMED IT WASNT
TEXTBOOK IT WAS BASICALLY EVERYONE FOR THEMSELVES AFTER THE SECOND EXPLOSION
SAW MANNY DELGADO SAW SOME OTHER PEOPLE LIKE SAID IT WAS CRAZY REALLY CRAZY
EVERYTHING PRETTY MUCH CALMED DOWN ONCE THE SECOND PLANE HIT IT WASNTTOO BAD
PEOPLE STILL RUNNING OUT OF THE BUILDING BODY PARTS THINK THAT WASTHE WORST EVERY THREE SECONDS WAS COUNTING COUNTED ABOUT 26

RIVERA
BODIES WHEN WAS THERE EVERY THREE SECONDS SOMEBODYWAS JUMPING
AT THAT POINT WE WERE TRIAGE WE WERE WHAT THEY CALL FRONT LINE MEDICS THERE WAS
CAPTAIN THERE DONT KNOWHIS NAME FROM
EMS HE WAS SETTING EVERYONE UP SAYING THE MEDICS WERE GOING TO GO IN FIRST THE EMTS WERE
GOING IN BEHIND US
THEY DIDNT LET US GO IN BECAUSE IT WAS
DANGEROUS WEWERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING STILL WE HAD NO IDEA THE BUILDINGS
WERE GOING TO COLLAPSE THAT WAS DANGEROUS WHERE
WE WERE ANYWAY
THINK IT TOOK ABOUT 30 MINUTES OR 40
MINUTES AFTER THE SECOND COLLAPSE AFTER THE
SECOND PLANE HIT
THEN THE BUILDING WHEN THE
THE SOUTH TOWER BUILDING AND
COLLAPSED
BUILDING COLLAPSED WHERE WERE
YOU
WAS RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING
RIGHT IN FRONT
YOU WERE STILL
THAT
RIGHT BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENED WAS

RIVERA
UP NEAR TRINITY AND LIBERTY
NO WE MOVEDTHE BUS TO TRINITY BUT WE
WENT BACK TO RIGHT IN FRONT OF SOUTH TOWER BECAUSE TRIAGE 1M NOT TOO SURE IF IT WASOVER HERE THINK IT WAS OVER HERE SOMEWHERE TRIAGE WAS STILL RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE SOUTH TOWER BUILDING
SO YOU PARKED YOUR VEHICLE
MY PARTNER PARKED THE VEHICLE SO 1M
NOT TOO SURE EXACTLY WHERE HE PARKED IT KNOW HE PARKED IT TWO BLOCKS UP
AND THEN YOU BOTH WENT BACK INTO THE
COMPLEX
THINK IT WAS AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE
AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE WE HAD TRIAGE KNOWIT
WAS EITHER THIS BUILDING OR THIS BUILDING
THINK IT WAS OVER HERE WE WERE TRIAGING OR OVER
HERE 1M NOT TOO SURE THIS IS THE SOUTH TOWER RIGHT THIS IS THE FIRST ONE THAT
COLLAPSED YEAH
SO WEWERE PRETTY MUCH MOST OF THE
WORKERSWERE INSIDE THIS BUILDING LIKE SAID DONT KNOWIF IVS FIVE WORLD TRADE CENTER OR
FOUR WORLD TRADE CENTER MOST OF THEM WERE IN

RIVERA
THE BUILDING BECAUSE THE CHIEF OR THE CAPTAIN SAID IF YOU WANT YOU CAN STAY INSIDE THAT
BUT DIDNT FEEL SAFE BECAUSE KNEW IT WAS TERRORIST ATTACK SO WAS SCARED
EVERY TIME YOU HEAR PLANE EVERYONE WOULD RUN SO PRETTY MUCH STOOD AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE
WOULD SEE TRIAGE BUT WAS PRETTY MUCH IN BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDINGS
THEN THAVS WHEN KEPT ON WALKING CLOSE TO THE SOUTH TOWER AND THAVS WHENTHAT
BUILDING COLLAPSED
HOWDID YOU KNOWTHAT IT WAS COMING
DOWN
THAT NOISE IT WAS NOISE
WHAT DID YOU HEAR WHATDID YOU SEE
BUILDING
ITWASAFRIGGING
NOISE ATFIRSTL
THOUGHT IT WAS DO YOU EVER SEE PROFESSIONAL DEMOLITION WHERE THEY SET THE CHARGES ON CERTAIN
FLOORS AND THEN YOU HEAR POP POP POP POP
POP THAVS EXACTLY WHAT BECAUSE THOUGHT IT WASTHAT WHEN HEARD THAT FRIGGING NOISE
THAVS WHEN SAW THE BUILDING COMING DOWN
WHATDIDYOUDO
RUN MOST OF THE PEOPLE RAN INTO THE

RIVERA 10
BUILDING BUT WASJUST TOO FAR FROM THE
BUILDING TO RUN INTO THIS TRIAGE BUILDING
BASICALLY JUST RAN UP THIS WAY RIGHT UP HERE DONT KNOWIF WAS HERE OR WASHERE BUT
RAN UP WAS REALLY CLOSE THOUGHT WAS DEAD BECAUSE IT WASJUST TOO CLOSE TO THE
BUILDING IT WASJUST TOO CLOSE SAID THIS IS DONT KNOWHOWMANY STORIES
RAN AS FAST AS COULD MAYBE HALF
BLOCK AND THEN HID BETWEEN BUILDING THAT HAD
SOME KIND OF INDENTION LIKE THIS JUST HID LIKE THAT ACTUALLY FOUND STRETCHER COVERED
MYSELF WITH STRETCHER THAVS WHEN EVERYTHING CAME DOWN
IT WASVERY DARK FOR FEW MINUTES
THINK AT THAT TIME MY PARTNER WENT UNDER THE FIRE
TRUCK HE WASTELLING ME EVERYONE PRETTY MUCH WENT ON THEIR OWN
SO ONCE THAT CLEARED WENT RIGHT BACK
AND STARTED PULLING OUT PEOPLE BASICALLY EVERYONE WAS DEAD AT THAT TIME WITH THE FIRST
COLLAPSE
WHEN THAT DUST CLEARED AND YOU WENT
BACK WHERE DID YOU GO BACK TO

RIVERA 11
RIGHT BACK TO THE TRIAGE TO TRIAGE SO IN FRONT OF THIS BUILDING AGAIN
RIGHT RIGHT HERE
IN FRONT OF THE WORLDTRADE CENTER THE
NORTHEAST CORNER
BUT THERE WAS NOBODY IN THERE
APPARENTLY EVERYONE RAN AND CAME OUT THROUGH HERE SO RAN IN HERE THERE WASBASICALLY NO
ONE AROUNDJUST FEWFIREFIGHTERS IN SHOCK THEN THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW THE NEXT BUILDING
COLLAPSED WAS RIGHT IN FRONT OF THAT
BUILDING
SO YOU WERESTILL OVER THERE WHENTHE
SECOND BUILDING COLLAPSED
RIGHT BECAUSE RAN BACK NOT TOO
BRIGHT OF ME OF COURSE RAN RIGHT BACK IN AND WAS RIGHT COULD ACTUALLY TOUCH THE
BUILDING WHEN IT COLLAPSED THE SECOND TIME WHEN IT COLLAPSED
BUT AGAIN WAS PREPARED BECAUSE
HEARD THAT SAME NOISE IT WAS LIKE WATERFALL NOISE THAFS WHEN RAN AS RAN IN HERE DIDNT RUN TOO FAR AGAIN IT WAS LIKE LITTLE INDENTION IN THE BUILDING WHERE THE SAME THING

RIVERA 12
AGAIN THAFS WHEN JUMPED BECAUSE IT WAS JUST TOO CLOSE THAT ONE GOT ME PRETTY GOOD
SO YOU WERE OUTSIDE YOU NEVER RAN INSIDE BUILDING WHENEITHER ONE OF THE TOWERS
COLLAPSED
NO THE FIRST SOUTH TOWER AFTER
THE SECOND PLANE HIT JUST TO CLEAR THE DOORWAY AND THEN CAME RUNNING BACK OUT DIDNT STAY THERE TOO LONG
AS THE COLLAPSES WERE GOING ON YOU NEVER
NO WASTHINKING ABOUT GOING INTO
BUILDING BECAUSE AS SAWTHE FIRST BUILDING COLLAPSE NOTICED THAT THE FIRST THREE OR FOUR FLOORS THEY WERESTILL PRETTY GOOD THAT WAS ON MY MIND WOWTHEY WERE STILL PRETTY GOOD SO WHENTHE SECOND BUILDING COLLAPSED WAS THINKING OF STANDING BETWEEN THE DOORS OF THE SECOND COLLAPSE SOMETHING TOLD ME NO JUST RAN BACK
AGAIN RAN UP AGAINST ONE OF THE
BUILDINGS THERE ONCE EVERYTHING SETTLED AGAIN
IT WAS DARK AGAIN DEJA VU YOU KNOW BUT WAS REALLY LUCKY BECAUSE THAT BUILDING HAD DAMAGEON

RIVERA 13
TOP OF ME EVERYTHING AROUND ME WAS DESTROYED THE FIRE TRUCK IN FRONT OF ME WASDESTROYED
EVERYTHING HAD TO TOUCH MYSELF TO SEE IF WAS ALIVE
THEN RAN RIGHT BACK BECAUSE THERE
WASNT MUCH TOO RUN AND THAVS WHEN YOU HEAR ON THE RADIO EMS PEOPLE DOWNFIRE DOWN RAN
THERE AND THEN RAN BACK OVER HERE BECAUSE
THINK THEY STARTED ANOTHER TRIAGE POINT AROUND HERE SOMEWHERETRIAGE CENTER RAN BACK IN
THERE
THEN THEY SAID THERE WAS LOT OF
PEOPLE TRAPPED INSIDE THAVS WHEN RIGHT BACK IN AFTER BOTH BUILDINGS COLLAPSED THERE WERE SEVERAL FIREFIGHTERS DOWNTHERE AND BATTALION CHIEFS DIDNT KNOWTHEY WERE BATTALION
CHIEFS BUT THEY WERE WHENWE PULLED THEM OUT
SO AFTER THE SECOND BUILDING COLLAPSED YOU ENDED UP OVER HERE BY TRINITY STREET
WAS OVER HERE RIGHT AND THEN RAN BACK OVER HERE SOMEWHERE BECAUSE AFTER THE
FIRST COLLAPSE THEY PRETTY MUCH SET ANOTHER
TRIAGE CENTER AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE 1M NOT TOO SURE IF IVS OVER HERE THEN WHENTHE SECOND

RIVERA 14
BUILDING COLLAPSED COULDNT RUN FAR BECAUSE IT WAS RIGHT THERE THEN ONCE EVERYTHING SETTLED
RAN RIGHT BACK TO THE TRIAGE AREA
AND THE TRIAGE WASYOU THINK SOMEWHERE RIGHT
SOMEWHERE BY TRINITY ABOUT MIDWAY THROUGH THE
RIGHT 1M NOT TOO RIGHT
THEN THAVS WHEN WE FOUND OUT
BASICALLY WAS LOOKING FOR MY PARTNER
COULDNT FIND MY PARTNER WHEN WENT BACK IN
THERE HE WASTHERE HE NEEDED SOME OXYGEN BECAUSE HE HAD STUFF ALL OVER HIS FACE THEN
THAVS WHENTHE RADIO CALL CAME IN THAT WE HAD EMS AND FIRE TRAPPED RAN BACK IN HERE
SOMEWHERE OVER THERE
THERE WAS JUST NO ONE AROUND IT WAS
VERY VERY BAD YOU COULDNT BREATHE TOO GOOD THAVS WHEN SAW SEVERAL FIREFIGHTERS WHO WERE OUT SO WE PULLED OUT ABOUT THREE FIREFIGHTERS
THAT WERE COVERED IN RUBBLE
WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM DO YOU KNOW
BECAUSE HE WASPRETTY HEAVY 111 PROBABLY GET IN
ONEGUYLCANTFORGETHIM

RIVERA 15
TROUBLE HE WEIGHED 400 POUNDS THE WORST PART
ABOUT THIS WHENTHIS BUILDING COLLAPSED IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT TO WALK THROUGH ALL THIS
WHEN THE SOUTH TOWER CAME DOWN THE SOUTH TOWER RIGHT SO WHENTHIS
BUILDING COLLAPSED PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING HERE YOU COULDNT RECOGNIZE IT ANYMORE SO IT TOOK WHILE BEFORE YOU COULD ACTUALLY WALK FROM THIS POINT HERE ALL THE WAY BACK HERE THIS IS WHERE
WE HAD SEVERAL TRAPPED FIREFIGHTERS HERE OVER BY
THERE WERE LOTS OF FIREFIGHTERS HERE THERE WAS
BY THE CUSTOMS BUILDING
RIGHT BUT MORE RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT AROUND IN BETWEEN AND FIVE WORLD TRADE CENTER
THIS TOWER HERE YOU SAW ABOUT 20 ESU GUYS ON THE SECOND FLOOR DONT ASK ME HOWTHEY GOT THERE THEY WERE CLIMBING DOWN SO IT LOOKS LIKE THEY WERE THERE WHEN IT COLLAPSED THERE WAS LADDER HERE THEY WERE REPELLING DOWN
WAS SHOCKED BECAUSE TRIED TO FIGURE OUT HOWTHEY MADE IT BECAUSE THEY WENT FROM THINK SECOND OR THIRD FLOOR AND THEY WERE
FIREFIGHTERS RIGHT

RIVERA 16
REPELLING
THIS IS WHERE YOU ENDED UP STAYING THE
REST OF THE DAY
NO THIS IS CRAZY YOU COULDNT STAY
HERE BECAUSE YOU HAD EVERYTHING WAS DESTROYED PRETTY MUCH AROUND HERE AGAIN DONT ASK ME WHY
WENT BACK IN IT WAS REALLY BAD
MUCHWENT BACK TO THIS ORIGINAL SPOT HERE AT CHURCH AND TRINITY THINK THEN THEY DIRECTED US SOMEWHERE ELSE AROUND HERE
WHODIRECTED
PRETTY
YOU SUPERVISOR
RIGHT SOME SUPERVISOR
DO YOU KNOWWHERE YOU ENDED UP
BY THE WATER SOMEWHERE AROUND HERE
BY BATTERY PARK
RIGHT SOMEWHERE AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE
THEN THEY SAID THAT THERE WAS GAS LEAK AND THAT WASTOO DANGEROUS SO WEWALKEDFROM WEWERE
HERE SOMEWHERE THEN THEY TOOK US ALL THE WAY TO NOT CHAMBERS WHAVS THAT PLACE ON THE WEST SIDE PIER 94
THAFS WHERE YOU ENDED UP AFTER ALL THAT STUFF
AFTERALLTHAT

RIVERA 17
SO YOU ENDED UP AT PIER 94 RIGHT
FORGOT WHAT WAS GOING TO ASK YOU WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR VEHICLE
WE MOVEDTHE VEHICLE IT HAD SEVERAL HOLES WE HAD NO IDEA IT HAD SEVERAL HOLES SO IT ENDED UP STAYING THERE AND GOT
DAMAGED
STAYING THERE AND THEN MOVING IT
RIGHT BASICALLY EVERY TIME IT WOULD COLLAPSE MY PARTNER WOULD GO IN THE VEHICLE AND MOVE IT
SO THAVS WHY OUR VEHICLE WAS THE ONLY ONE PRETTY MUCH THAT MADE IT THERE WAS ANOTHER VEHICLE
THINK TOO
ONE OF THE NEWS CHANNELS SAW
THINK IT WAS THE SOUTH BUILDING SOMEBODYWITH CAMERA RUNNING OUT OF THE SOUTH TOWER BUILDING YOU ACTUALLY COULD SEE MY VEHICLE RIGHT IN FRONT
OF THE TOWER RIGHT IN FRONT BUT THAVS BEFORE THE SECOND COLLAPSE THE SECOND AIRPLANE HIT
SO WE PRETTY MUCH MOVED EVERYTHING
YOU SAID AT THE END OF THE DAY YOU AND
YOUR PARTNER WERETOGETHER WITH YOUR VEHICLE YES WE PICKED UP ANOTHER ALS UNIT WHO

RIVERA 18
LOST THEIR VEHICLE SO WE HAD TWOALS UNIT IN ONE VEHICLE WEWENT TO TRIAGE AT THAT POINT AT
PIER 95 THINK
ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO ADD TO THIS 1M LOOKING AT THE TIMES HERE IT FELT
MORE LIKE FIVE MINUTES THE WHOLE THING THAFS THE KIND OF STUFF WANT YOU TO
SAY HOWYOU PERCEIVED EVERYTHING
LIKE SAY ONCE SAWTHE SECOND PLANE THEN KNEW THAVS IT IT WASNTBY
ACCIDENT THEN STARTED THINKING ABOUT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER HOWEVERYONE LINED UP THE AMBULANCES AND THE FIRE TRUCKS AND THOUGHT THE TERRORISTS KNOWEXACTLY HOW WE LINED UP LAST
TIME AND WREDOING IT AGAIN WE PRETTY MUCH DID LINE UP EXACTLY THE SAME WAY AS THE LAST
TIME THAT WAS MY WORDING
AT THAT POINT HONESTLY THERE WAS NO ONE
TO RESCUE AT THE TWOBUILDINGS THE WORST PART WAS WHEN SURGEON CAME UP TO ME AS WE WERE TRAVELING AND HS LIKE GUYS LISTEN MEDICS WVE GOT FOUR SURGEONS 18 DOCTORS AND THEY WERE SETTING UP TRIAGE POINT TOLD HIM
THAVS NICE BUT DONT THINK ANYONS GOING TO

RIVERA 19
COME
BECAUSE WAS ONE OF THE FEW UNITS THAT
CAME OUT OF THERE AND WHEN WE SAW WHAT
HAPPENED THAVS WHY LEFT BECAUSE BASICALLY THERE WASNO ONE ALIVE WEJUST PULLED OUT
SEVERAL FIREFIGHTERS AND THAVS IT WE WENT BACK THERE WAS NOTHING ELSE TO DO WEWERE CRAZY TO STAY THERE BECAUSE YOU STILL HAD THIS THING ABOUT AIRPLANES GOING TO HIT OTHER BUILDINGS AND THE OTHER BUILDINGS AROUND YOU WERENT SAFE BECAUSE THE BUILDING WAS HIDING NEXT TO THAT ONE WAS LEANING AND HEARD THAT ONE COLLAPSED TOO
IT WASBAD THAVS PRETTY MUCH IT
ALL RIGHT YOU HAVE NOTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO ADD RIGHT
NO HOPE YOU CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT SAY BECAUSE TALK KIND OF FAST
MS BASTEDEN BECK THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW WITH PARAMEDIC
PARAMEDIC RIVERA DANIEL RIVERA MS BASTEDENBECK DANIEL RIVERA
THE TIME NOW IS 1539 HOURS
File No. 9110036
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT-P ANDRE CHERRINGTON
Interview Date:October 10, 2001
A. CHERRINGTON
A. CHERRINGTON
CHRISTINE BASTEDENBECK:Today’s date is October 10, 2001. The time is 1712
hours. My name is Christine Bastedenbeck, I work with the New York City Fire Department. Today I’m conducting and interview with the following individual,
ANDRE CHERRINGTON: Paramedic Andre Cherrington, from battalion 31, unit 31 Victor, tour 2
Q: Okay, I’m just gonna ask you to tell me about the events of the morning of September 11th, 2001
A: Okay.
Q: In your words.
A: Alright, what happened was, I logged on. I started work at 8:30, and I was
working with a gentleman who was doing overtime, so we were on our way to get some breakfast, and we looked to our left as we were pulling out of the garage, and we saw like a blast. But it didn’t seem like anything major. But then we saw the World Trade Center like, catch on fire. So I turned on 1010 W.I.N.S. to see if there was any news and they said that a plane hit. So we were thinking maybe a small plane ran out of gas and hit the building. So we were like okay, let’s call the dispatcher. The dispatcher had already started sending units. So we said well listen, 31 Victor, we are able to go. Can you send us? So they sent us over there. So we went on the Brooklyn Bridge, I was driving, we went on the Brooklyn bridge and I’m seeing people already coming across. So we got across over there, I’d say by city hall park and I saw a Lieutenant, Brynes from Battalion 57. And I was talking to him, he stopped us and people were coming to the ambulance. Nothing major, just people with minor cuts and scrapes. He had another unit there, so we triaged a couple of patients, then I requested to go more towards where it seemed more people would be hurt. I said to the Lieutenant, well I’m a paramedic, they probably might need me more in there. So he released us, said okay, find someone closer to the area, another lieutenant. So we went down Broadway, and as I’m driving down Broadway, everyone’s stopping the ambulance and coming up to us and saying so-and-so is hurt, and so-and-so is having a heart attack. So we stopped by each patient and pulled out the triage tags. Everyone was
2
A. CHERRINGTON
basically a green tag, so we just kept triaging people en route to the World Trade Center.
When we got there, we got there, I guess 9:00, 9:05, whatever, and I seen Phil Ashby there and he was doing triage from inside the building. We started triaging right away. I was taking care of a patient who was having a hard time breathing and my Partner was taking care of another patient. That patient jumped on, Metropolitan actually took that patient to the hospital. While Metropolitan took that person to the hospital, somebody came to my partner and said we have another person who’s burnt up in the building.
Q: At this point, had the second plane crashed into the second building?
A: In all honesty, everything happened so fast, and it was so hectic that I wasn’t really paying attention to it. It seemed like, you know, all the ashes were falling, it was just a big mess. Everybody was screaming, so I don’t really know. I just know what was going on as far as me and my partner were concerned. So, when we went to the second building, I think it was the second building, and we seen a guy burnt up, downstairs in the lobby. So we carried him, and we brought him on our stretcher, it was parked by the ambulance. We put him in the stretcher, while we’re taking care of him we’re seeing everybody running out of the second building and it was just like everybody running, everybody trying to just get outta there. So it’s like, okay, fine, we’re taking care of this guy. We had to just cool down his wounds. He was burnt up, he had like 90% burns over his body. Like first, second degree burns. A couple third degree burns also. So we took care of him, got an IV in him, and were ready to transport him. The Lieutenant on the scene said don’t take him yet cause there’s more patients coming down. I waited for a few minutes, maybe five minutes. And it was like a cluster, so -- I just decided, you know, let me take this guy, cause he started having shortness of breath. I couldn’t call for anything to stabilize him, cause there was a mess there, you know, before I intubated him. So I said, let me take him to the hospital. So as I was pulling off, I’d say about half a block away, we heard a big boom, and we seen a whole bunch of ashes, everything just started coming towards us. So I actually stopped the ambulance for thirty seconds and I looked. My partner was in the back he said stop the ambulance. So I stopped and I looked, and I
3
A. CHERRINGTON
seen all the debris coming. So I said close the bus. Cause at this point everyone started
running towards the ambulance, I mean, you know, we had one critical patient there, so I said let me just get this guy to the hospital. So he closed the ambulance. And as I’m driving, people are running and debris is coming down. Debris is coming down and hitting the bus. I’m just driving, driving, I drove up a one-way, I think it was Second Avenue. One of those major avenues. And I drove halfway up to Cornell, and then I got on the right way, and I drove the rest of the way up to Cornell. When we got to Cornell, I think I gave a notification, when I got to Cornell, they immediately took the patient in and they intubated the patient. As I was leaving they said the second building fell. When the second building fell, I said well, we gotta get back there. So we went back there, where they told us to go to Battery Park triage. So we went to Battery Park. When we went there now, they said that there was a gas leak. So I had the ambulance parked, and I was actually on the other side of the street, they said that there’s a gas leak, get outta there. I didn’t have enough time to jump into the ambulance, so I just started going towards--with the crowd, running more or less until there was a bus that me and my partner jumped in and we went to Pier 94. When we got to Pier 94, it seemed like it was a false alarm.
Q: Do you know whos vehicle it was you jumped into?
A: My partner knew who it was, but I think they were from Manhattan. I’d never seen the guy before.
Q: Was it a Fire Department vehicle?
A: It was EMS, yeah, EMS vehicle.
Q: Who was your partner that day?
A: Suarez, he’s a new paramedic. And we jumped in that ambulance, and
whoever the guy was drove all the way to Pier 94. All three of us were in the front. When we got there, we found out that it was more or less a false alarm, so I walked back towards my vehicle, but they wouldn’t let us over there. By the time I got over there the vehicle was already gone. So I said, oh well, you know. So I jumped in with 31 Young, who is Paramedic Smiley and Paramedic Rivera. And basically I stayed with them all day, and
4
A. CHERRINGTON
what we did is we went back towards City Hall Park to see if anyone was needing triage, if
anybody needed us. But by then they already had a major triage center set up, so nobody needed us. We were trying to go where we were needed. Cause you know, we didn’t really have anybody really telling us what to do over the airway so, we finally wound up on the backside of BMCC where we set up a triage center, us and a couple BLS. Finally some lieutenants came over and they said okay, you guys stay over here, just in case, cause one of the buildings was on fire. The last building to fall was on fire. He said it might drop. So we waited there to see if anything was going to happen. The only thing that happened was that the building dropped. We waited to see if anybody was hurt, but everybody seemed to be evacuated, everything was fine. So from there, we stayed there for a few hours. You know, just triaging, waiting. And after that, it seemed like it was okay. So another lieutenant came there and said well, they might need some paramedics at Ground Zero. They were saying something about there were amputated patients there who, once they get them out of the rubble, they’re gonna need us to start lines, whatever and get them to the nearest hospital. So we went back to Ground Zero. There we reported to another Lieutenant who I really, I really didn’t keep any names. But I know that it was really hectic over there. So we reported there, all four paramedics, and we were like, okay, we’re here and we’re ready to help if anybody needs any help from us. And we basically just stood there, and what we did there was, if anybody got cut it was minor triage more or less.
The seemed to have everything under control there. So basically, we just stayed there waiting, just on stand-by. We pulled our ambulance into their little bay, into their bay, and we just waited there. But around 2:30, you know, I realized there’s nothing we can really do here. There’s nothing going on here, it was more like a BLS thing, you know, minor cuts, abrasions, whatever. By then, my partner already worked over 30 hours so he was really tired. So I talked to the lieutenant, I said, you know, we’re really not needed here. I’ve been here since 8:30 this morning, you know, can you release us? So basically
Q: This is 2:30 in the morning?
5
A. CHERRINGTON
A: 2:30 in the morning, yeah. So basically after that, we seen that there’s
nothing that we could do, so he released us and we came back to Brooklyn. That was it. So you know, that day I thank my lucky stars. Cause you know, I think that if I would have actually waited around for more patients, I think instead of seeing the rubble coming towards me and I’m booking, I think the rubble would’ve actually hit the bus with the guy in there. I think it would have been a very bad situation. So for some reason I said, you know, I’m not staying, I’m leaving. It was kind of like a free-for-all, because, you know, what happened was, when we got there, we thought everything was okay, everything is calm. Maybe the little plane hit and it’s causing all this. But I guess when the second plane hit, that’s when all hell broke loose. And that’s when everybody realized, you know, nothing’s calm. Everything just went crazy after that. I mean, I did what I had to do, I took one patient, we took care of it and got him to the hospital. And you know, I did say, well I saved one person. I know I did save one person, and that’s all that matters. I was there for X Amount of hours and I did one good thing. And my partner too.
Q: Everything you did was good.
A: Well, yeah. I mean, you know, everything I did was good. But I feel good that I did get that guy to the hospital. As a matter of fact, I looked at the ACR and the guy lived not far from where I lived. So I think that two days later I went over to the address and I thought his wife was there, but it was his mother. And his mother happens to be a nurse at Methodist Hospital. I approached here. Because I heard on the news that they said, well we don’t know what’s going on. A lot of family members, they don’t know what’s going on with the people in the building. So I said, let me go over there and let her know where her son is, where her husband is (I thought it was his wife.) When I got there, it was the mother. I told her, this is where your son is, this is the condition that he was in. And she was very happy about it, you know she was real happy. And I felt good too, you know, I felt good. Everything worked out. He was pretty bad though, he was real bad. But you know, I never really contacted them again. Maybe one day when everything calms down, hopefully I’ll hear that he’s still alive and that he’s coming out of the hospital, you
6
7
A. CHERRINGTON
know? But it was a situation, and at the time, you know, you’re not really thinking about it,
you know you’re just like okay, let me just do what I have to do. And you know, I’m pretty much like, I was in the Army, so I pretty much know how to keep my cool. And the triage also helped a lot. Cause I think if I didn’t know that, I probably would have had everybody on my bus. Because everybody had the M.I. or seizures, but it was just, everyone was in shock. They couldn’t believe it, you know? So it’s like, let me just triage this one, triage, this one, you have an M.I.? Have you had a history before? You take any medicine? No, okay, you get a green tag. And that’s all it was. But as we started getting more towards it, it started getting more serious. Then when we got that guy, that guy saved my life too. That’s the main thing I tell everybody. I might have saved his life, but he definitely saved me and my partners’ life. That’s what me and my partner say. It was just a blessing, you know? You know, that’s it. That’s all I got to say. Yeah, that’s it.
A: This concludes my interview with Paramedic Andre Cherrington. The time now is 1725 hours.
File No. 9110037
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT JUAN RIOS
Interview Date:October 10, 2001
JUAN RIOS
CHRISTINE BASTEDENBECK:Today is October 10, 2001. The time is 1430 hours.
My name is Christine Bastedenbeck. I work for the Fire Department of the City of New York. I’m conducting an interview at Battalion 31, EMS with the following individual
JUAN RIOS: EMT Juan Rios.
Q: Please state your rank and where you’re assigned.
A: EMT, I’m assigned to Battalion 31, Unit 31 David, tour two.
Q: Okay, Mr. Rios, just give us your account of the events of September 11th.
You were working that day?
A: Yeah, I was working with my partner, David Blacksburn. We drove up, you
know, every morning we go under the Brooklyn bridge and we, you know, we read our newspaper. In front of us, there was a medic unit from Long Island College, so, you know, they look and they saw a plane going into the World Trade Center. On the north side I think it was. Then they make a U-turn, they tell me and my partner, you know, a plane just went inside the World Trade Center, come on, let’s go. So we were on the radio, and we’re telling them, you know, we’re going over there. So we went, we went on the Brooklyn Bridge. We saw, you know, the fire, smoke and everywhere people screaming. So we park on the South Side, on Liberty.
Q: You parked your vehicle at ?
A: At Liberty.
Q: Liberty and what intersection?
A: I think it was West End and Washington. Q: Okay.
A: And then, when the second plane hit, debris started to fall down, so
Q: Okay, when you got there and stopped at Washington and Liberty, what was happening around you?
A: People screaming, people just, it was total chaos. People were screaming, debris was falling, I looked up and I saw people just throwing themselves out of the
2
JUAN RIOS
buildings. They were landing on roofs. I heard they were landing on people, and it was
just total chaos.
Q: Okay, did you, when you got there, did you report to any supervisor or ? A: There was a Lieutenant, but I didn’t it was total chaos that everyone was
just almost doing their own thing. But, I just saw one Lieutenant there. Q: Okay, did he approach you, or did you approach him? A: He approached us and we had a patient in back, and um Q: Where did you get the patient from?
A: She ran into us. She was having like, an anxiety attack. Q: Okay.
A: So we gave her, you know, oxygen and shit.
Q: That was from the World Trade Center?
A: Yeah. So she, she just calmed down. She was on the bus, in the ambulance. Then when the second plane hit, the Lieutenant told us to go to Washington and Albany, which is around the corner. We parked with at least 20 ambulances. So we just went there, we were waiting for people to come so we could take them to the hospital, but nobody was coming.
Q: Okay, what happened to the original patient that you had?
A: When the second one hit, you know, we heard like a loud explosion and debris was coming down. Everyone was like get out, get out and she got scared, she ran out of the bus, and I don’t know where she went. We moved the bus, and they told us to park them in two lines, at least ten ambulances in each line. I was in the back waiting, you know, so we could wait for patients and I was hooking up the regulator to the O-2, when I hear people screaming and a loud explosion, and I heard like “sssssssss ” the dust like “sssssssss ” So I come out of the bus, and I look and I see a big cloud of dust and debris coming from the glass through the condominium, the other building, and like, glass falling. So I just started to run, everybody ran, so I just ran. Our bus, it got totaled.
3
JUAN RIOS
Yeah, like broken windows, the back was full with debris and dust, other peoples’
equipment, they wouldn’t even know. So, I just ran to Battery Park with everybody. It was me, my partner, and another voluntary medic, and three or two cops.
Q: Do you know any of their names?
A: No, I don’t know any of their names.
Q: Just, the only person you knew was your partner?
A: Yeah. So, we just ran, ran as far you know, when the second one we
heard it, and more dust came. Not debris, just smoke. All we heard was “Ssssssss ” like a “Sssss” sound. We ran, we ran at least a mile away from the ferry. But there was two chiefs, I don’t know their names?
Q: Were they EMS chiefs?
A: EMS chiefs.
Q: Okay.
A: Out of nowhere I seen an ambulance coming. A guy driving with two
people in the back. The chief got on the radio asking for boats to come so we could take the people to Jersey City. Whoever had to be treated we treated on the ambulance. Another, I think it was like a, not an ambulance, but another like, van with supplies came over. They brought you know, oxygen, and a whole bunch of stuff.
Q: Okay, was that a fire department vehicle? A: Yeah, a fire department vehicle.
Q: Was it in like an LSU or something?
A: No, just EMS.
Q: Okay, you don’t know? Just a van with all kinds of equipment? A: Yeah, right, it came with a Lieutenant. Like two Lieutenants and Q: And where was that?
4
JUAN RIOS
A: Battery Park. You know, we treated many people just with asthma. We
gave them Albuterol, and we just put them on the boat to Jersey City. After we cleared that up, they had another sector in the ferry, there were a whole bunch of people there.
Q:
A:
we went to the
Q: A: Q: A: Q: A: Q: A:
So basically you ended up at like a triage area in Battery Park?
We made our own triage area in Battery Park. After we finished everything, ferry.
Okay, did you sustain any injuries that day?
No, no.
Other than being totally covered in
Covered with um, dirt and
Okay, you don’t have asthma or anything?
No, I don’t have asthma.
Okay, so you ended up treating patients and ?
There were a whole bunch of people who had, you know, the carts. They
had water, ice cream, so they were generous enough to give us, they offered that we could take whatever we wanted to take. There were giving people water, soda, ice cream, pretzels, potato chips. They said, whatever you need just take from here.
Q: At any time did you get separated from your partner?
A: No.
Q: Okay, anything else you want to add to your story?
A: It was I’m never gonna forget the experience, you know? I still think
about it, cause I went back on Friday to do overtime. Q: This past Friday?
A: Yeah, and I was in the same spot I was in when it happened. I saw the windows of the condominium, they were all damaged, you know. Say I just stood there, you never know what could have happened. You know I could just, you know, I could’ve
died. So it just, it brought a lot of memories back, you know? You know, just the bus, in
5
JUAN RIOS
the back got totaled, other people’s equipment in there covered with dust and all the
broken glass. Cause I was debating should I stay in the back or just run? I saw everybody run, so I ran. I just started. You know, I started at the academy in December of 2000, I just came into the field in February. To have eight months on the job and to see this
Q: Yeah, something that you never want to see again, I’m sure. Okay Juan, thank you very much. This concludes the interview with EMT Juan Rios, the time now is 1439 hours.
6
File No. 9110038
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT DANIEL WHITMAN
Interview Date:October 10, 2001
D. WHITMAN
PAUL RADENBERG: The time is 1441 hours, and this is Paul Radenberg with the Fire Department, City of New York. I’m conducting an interview with
DANIEL WHITMAN: Dan Whitman, Battalion 31, shield number 5300, EMS FDNY.
Q: Okay, Mr. Whitman is an Emergency Medical Technician. We are conducting this interview regarding the events of September 11,2001 at EMS Battalion 51.
A: 31.
Q: Correction, 31. Okay, start basically, with, you know, making your way down to the Trade Center. You were off duty?
A: I was off duty, I made my way down to Ground Zero. I was directed by Police Officers and Traffic Officers to stop by the Battalion station, cause they wouldn’t let me walk all the way down to Ground Zero originally. And I was down at the battalion station, I think it was on Warren Street. One of those cross streets by Ground Zero. They just had a plethora of people there. People from all over the Eastern Seaboard. They had medics from Connecticut and tons of people down there, there was lots of people there. I was directed to go to South Ferry. There at South Ferry, it had even more people with very little patience. I was down there for a significant amount of time. Then I was directed down to Ground Zero to treat people. There were firefighters right on site with saline and Visene for our eyes. And, I don’t know, I spent about 15 hours there.
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D. WHITMAN
Q: Okay, the first station that you stopped at, that was a temporary aid station?
A: Yes.
Q: When you were on your way down there, and that was somewhere around
Warren Street, right?
A: Warren Street, right. Warren Street if I recall.
Q: Okay, do you remember who sent you from Warren Street to South Ferry? A: I couldn’t tell you, all I know is that they outranked me.
Q: Was it a fire officer, EMS?
A: It was EMS. He was wearing a blue jacket, it looked like an EMS coat. So
I guess it was EMS.
Q: Okay, and then, when you got down to South Ferry, who sent you up from
South Ferry?
A: It’s not that I was sent up, I couldn’t go home anyway, so I got released
there, and that’s where I spent the majority of my time, at South Ferry. I signed off that I was leaving. I was going through, I got to Ground Zero, and there I was directed to treat the patients with Visene and saline, just to clear their eyes, the firefighters.
Q: Who gave you that direction? Do you remember?
A: Um, I think it was a doctor down there. There was a doctor down there,
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D. WHITMAN
cause the firefighters were just coming up with the same thing, stuff in their eyes.
So they just said we should have people down there, I talked to the medics down there, the army guys, I went down with them. The chief medical officer on scene told us all to go back. I don’t know who he was. He was in a firefighter outfit.
So after that I was on about my 15th hour, I was getting tired. I walked all the way down from the Bronx to get there. That’s about when I went home.
Q: Do you remember seeing any EMS personnel that you recognized that had come in from home in civilian clothes, rather than in uniform?
A: None that I can recall like that. The only one that I did see was Gary
Smiley, that I know by name and face. He had a bunch of people in his ambulance with him who I could tell you who they were by face, but by name I couldn’t really help you out. But Gary Smiley’s the one I really know by name and face.
Q: Okay, did, while you were down there, what point in the job do you remember getting down there? Were you down there between the plane impact and the towers coming down?
A: As the tower was coming down, the second tower.
Q: As the second tower came down?
A: Yes, that’s when I got down there.
Q: Do you remember where you were down there when the second tower
came down?
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D. WHITMAN
A: I was a couple of blocks away. I was close enough for the cloud of smoke to come over me, but, I didn’t really feel the direct debris. So three blocks maybe.
Q: So, still north of the trade center?
A: I think so.
Q: Okay, and, you did say before when we were talking that you made your
way down with a marine?
A: Yes. From there was an armory. And I heard over 1010 WINS that all
military personnel report to the nearest armory. I’m in the military, so I went over there. And when I got there, that’s when the second plane hit. I was released from there because it was a National Guard Unit, and I’m a Reserve Unit. So the Marine and I, we know each other, we decided to go down to Ground Zero, make our way down there.
Q: You don’t remember his name by chance?
A: Uh, no. I can tell you what he looks like. Hahaha.
Q: Okay, in your travel from the first aid station up on Warren Street, down
to South Ferry, how did you make that trip? That was on foot or ?
A: On foot, yeah.
Q: It was walking?
A: Yeah, actually walking, and maybe 3 or 4 blocks we got picked up by
Long Island College, they have this ambulance they call the “Beast.” It’s just a really big ambulance and awkward looking. They picked us up for a couple
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D. WHITMAN
blocks. Me, the Marine, a doctor, and 2 nurses. They picked us all up, cause we were all travelling down together. Then they took them down to South Ferry, and we got dropped off at the aid station on Warren. Around that area. So it’s about two or three blocks.
Q: Okay, so really other than Gary Smiley, no other EMS names that you recognize?
A: The faces I recognize, not the names
Q: Okay, any other thoughts or impressions on the job? Anything that makes it stand out?
A: Well, an event that kind of stands out, it was weird to me for the Chief Medical Officer to tell me and the other people treating the firefighters on site when they were just walking up to get their eyes washed out, it’s just a simple saline solution to wash their eyes out to continue working, for them to get sent all the way up there when you could have people on site. I don’t know, he was under a lot of stress, I’m not knocking what he did, but that didn’t make sense to me. It was a little chaotic, but we weren’t prepared for a situation like this, there’s nothing you can really say, but that would be my only thing.
Q: Okay, just to clarify it a little bit, you were at the Warren Street station when the second tower came down?
A: No, I was on my way to Warren Street.
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D. WHITMAN
Q: You were on your way? Still on your way?
A: Yeah, I was only a few blocks away and the smoke cloud came through.
First I saw people running, and then I saw the cloud behind them. And that’s when I started running.
Q: Everybody was running
A: But it was, I don’t know .oh, another thing that I found odd about this, it’s a sad comparison but it was like a video game. Cause every once in a while you’d walk a couple blocks, and on the corner, covered in debris and soot, if you
didn’t walk into it, there was supplies. Like you know, there was supplies, different stations, different areas, just sitting there. No one knew what they were. Like, pallets of water, but nobody knew they were there. You know? Nobody knew. You had to like, kick off the dirt, or pick up stuff. That’s the only thing I found weird, that was kind of weird. Other than that, that’s it I guess.
A: Okay, the time is now 1450 hours, interview is concluded.
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FILE NO 9110039
WORLDTRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW PARAMEDIC GARY SMILEY
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 10 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

SMILEY
MRTAMBASCO TODAY IS OCTOBER10 THE TIME IS 1435 HOURS MY NAME IS MIKE TAMBASCO 1M AN INVESTIGATOR ASSIGNED TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE 1M CURRENTLY AT EMS BATTALION 31 CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH PARAMEDIC GARY SMILEY INTO THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 AT THE WORLDTRADE CENTER
GARY DO ME FAVOR GIVE ME YOUR NAME RANK AND THE UNIT THAT YOU WERE ON AND THEN FEEL FREE
GARY SMILEY PARAMEDIC BATTALION 31 THAT DAY WAS WORKING 31 YOUNG TOUR OCLOCK TO 300
HEARD THE INITIAL REPORTS OVER THE RADIO AND WEWERE ASSIGNED TO THE JOB WEWERE AT ENGINE 207 AT THE TIME GETTING GAS ON OVER ON TILLARY STREET WE STARTED TO RESPOND WE WENT OVER THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE FROM THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE YOU COULD ALREADY SEE THE TOWER BURNING IT HIT YOU IN YOUR MIND THAT THIS WAS GOING
TO BE BAD
WE INITIALLY RESPONDED IN TO LOWER MANHATTAN
AND ENDED UP RESPONDING TO CHURCH STREET IN FRONT OF WORLD TRADE CENTER THE ONLY REASON THINK THAT IS
BECAUSE IN 1993 WHEN RESPONDED TO THAT BOMBING THAVS WHERE THE INITIAL STAGING WAS
WHENWEPULLED UPTHERE WERETWOOTHER

SMILEY
AMBULANCES THERE THAT ARRIVED SIMULTANEOUSLY TOOK COMMAND OF THOSE TWO AND INFORMED THEM TO SET UP TRIAGE AREA ACROSS THE STREET ONTHE FAR SIDE OF CHURCH WHICH FROM THE MAP WOULD BE BY ST PAULS CEMETERY WE GOT OUR EQUIPMENT OUT STARTED TO GIVE THEM DIRECTION
THE HELMETS COATS AND TO GET THEIR EQUIPMENT OUT MY PARTNER DANNY RIVERA PROCEEDED ON THE SIDEWALK TOWARDS
THE FRONT OF WORLD TRADE CENTER BECAUSE THERE WERE
PEOPLE COMING OUT OF THE BUILDING THAT WERE HURT AND THEY SEEMED TO BE MILLING AROUNDTHE FRONT DOORS SO HE WAS GIVING THEM INSTRUCTIONS TO GET OUT OF THE BUILDING AND TO COME OFF OF THE PLAZA AND COME ACROSS CHURCH STREET
SEVERAL PEOPLE CAME OUT AND THEY STUMBLED
HE GRABBED COUPLE AS WASCOMING ACROSS THE STREET ACROSS CHURCH STREET IS WHENTHE SECOND PLANE
HIT THE SOUTH TOWER AT THAT POINT WE RAN ACROSS THE STREET GOING TOWARDSST PAULS AND THERE WAS FIRE ENGINE ON THE CORNER OF THAT CORNER OF VESEY WE HID BEHIND THE FIRE ENGINE AND WE GOT HIT WITH LOT OF DEBRIS
IT TOOK DONT KNOWHOWLONG FOR THAT TO KNOWIT WAS HOT BECAUSE WE ALL WERE
STOP
REMEMBER DANNY LOOKING AT ME AND SAYING YOU ARE LIKE

SMILEY
RED AS BEET BECAUSE WEPROBABLY GOT FLASH BURNS FROM THE FIREBALL
AT THAT POINT THERE WAS EVERYBODY WAS RUNNING AROUND CRAZY LOT OF PEOPLE WERE COMING UP TO US SCREAMING AND DIDNT SEE THAT MANY PEOPLE INJURED AT THAT TIME THERE WAS LOT OF BODIES BODIES CAME OUT OF THE SKY AT THAT POINT IN FACT WE WERE HIT WITH
DEBRIS WHICH TURNED OUT TO BE HUMAN REMAINS
REMEMBER GENTLEMAN COMING UP TO US WITH LEG SCREAMING TO HELP HIM IT WASNTHIS LEG IT WAS
SOMEBODY ELSS LEG WE GOT BACK IN THE VEHICLES AND
WE MOVED THEM UP VESEY GOING TOWARDSBROADWAY PULLED UP ON THE SIDEWALK THERE WASLIKE CABRINI
UNIT THERE AND ANOTHER EMS UNIT
AT THAT POINT WESTARTED TO GET LOT OF
HYSTERICAL PEOPLE LOT OF PATIENTS REMEMBER ONE
PATIENT GOING BY US THAT WAS ALREADY DEAD THAT THEY HAD ON THE SCOOP THAT THE EMTS HAD STOPPED US AND ASKED US
AND WE HAD SAID THAT THEY WERE ALREADY DEAD THE GUY
WAS BASICALLY DECAPITATED
AT THAT POINT MADE DECISION TOLD
DANNY SAID THINK THE BEST BET WOULD BE TO GO TO WEST AND VESEY BECAUSE THAVS WHERE THAT WAS THE MAIN STAGING AREA OR THE LAST ONE SO WE THOUGHT THAT

SMILEY
WOULD BE GOOD IDEA SO WE TOOK THE TWO UNITS THAT
WERE WITH US AND CAME AROUND BROADWAY DOWNVESEY PAST AND
THERE WAS LOT OF DEBRIS IN THE STREET
THERE WAS LOT OF BURNING DEBRIS IN THE STREET
DIDNT SEE MANY PEOPLE AT THAT POINT THERE WASNT ANYBODY TO STOP AND HELP THERE WAS JUST LOT OF EMERGENCY VEHICLES APPARENTLY COMING DOWNTHAT WAY WE ENDED UP WEPULLED INTO VESEY AND WEST THERE
SEEMED TO BE LOT OF FIRE ENGINES ALREADY STAGED
THERE WE MET UP WITH CAPTAIN PINCUS AND CHIEF
GOLDFARB
WEPARKED THE TRUCK WEWERETHE SECOND
VEHICLE IN OFF OF WEST AND VESEY THERE WAS CITYWIDE AMBULANCE THAT WASTHE FIRST ONE CATTY CORNER TO THE SECOND EQUIPMENT WASTAKEN OUT AND THEY HAD STAGED US IN THE FRONT OF WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER ON THE UPPER
STEPS OF IT THERE WAS OTHER UNITS ON THE LOWER STEPS WHICH WAS DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF AND OFF AT THE ANGLE
OF THE NORTH TOWER
AT THAT POINT LOT OF PEOPLE WEREJUST
STANDING AROUND REMEMBER MANNY DELGADO WAS THERE
DR CHERSON NUMBER OF VOLUNTEERS CAME UP TO US ASKING IF THEY COULD HELP ABOUT SIX OR SEVEN EMTS

SMILEY
THEY TOLD METO START TAKING DOWNNAMES AND NUMBERS SO STARTED TAKING DOWNTHEIR NAMES AND THEIR EMT NUMBERS
JUST TO KEEP TRACK OF THEM AT THAT POINT NOBODY KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON
THERE WAS ABOUT THINK THERE WAS ALS
UNITS AND BLS UNITS CAPTAIN PINCUS ASKED FOR BLS
AND ALS UNIT THAT HE COULD DESIGNATE AS FAST UNITS TO
GO INTO THE LOBBY ME AND DANNY VOLUNTEERED ANOTHER
BLS CREWVOLUNTEERED THEY WERE JUST WAITING FOR
FINAL PREPARATION TO KNOWWHENWE WERE GOING ACROSS THE STREET
TO MAKE IT
AT THAT POINT MET UP WITH COUPLE OF
OTHER GUYS FROM OUR BATTALION WHOALSO CAME DOWNTO STAGE THERE EMT FELTON SEAN CUNNIFFE REMEMBER FELTON BECAUSE WESTARTED TO NOTICE PEOPLE COMING OFF THE BUILDING COMING OFF THE NORTH TOWER AND AT FIRST
WE DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON AND THEN YOU COULD SEE THAT THEY WEREJUMPING IN FACT HAD TO ACTUALLY
HOLD FELTON BECAUSE HE WANTED TO RUN ACROSS THE STREET AND CATCH THEM HE WANTED HE WAS HYSTERICAL AND HE JUST WANTED TO CATCH THEM TOLD HIM THAT HE COULDNT DO THAT THEY WERE HITTING THE GROUND OF COURSE EXPLODING IT WAS HORRIBLE WE MUST HAVE WE PROBABLY SAWABOUT DOZEN PEOPLE JUMP

SMILEY
AT THAT POINT THEY TOOK EVERYBODYS
SEVERAL PEOPLE COMING AROUND TAKING EVERYBODYS NAME AND BADGE NUMBERS AND WHAT UNITS THEY WERE SO THEY KNEWWHO WASTHERE THERE WERE SLEW OF VEHICLES COMING IN THAT HAD ALREADY ARRIVED ON WEST STREET
PRIVATE AMBULANCES OUR UNITS PROPRIETARY UNITS
THEN WE WENT BACK WE HAD GONE DOWNTO THE BOTTOM STEPS AND THEY WENT BACK UP THE TOP STEPS WE
WERE STANDING BY THE STRETCHER IN FACT THINK
BECAUSE THEY WERE GETTING READY TO SEND ME AND DANNY IN TO THE FORWARD TRIAGE AREA WHENTHE FIRST TOWER WHICH
WOULD BE THE SOUTH TOWER SOMEBODYYELLED IT WAS COLLAPSING
WE RAN UP THE STEPS AND INTO THE AMEX
BUILDING WHICH WOULD BE WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER ALL
THE EQUIPMENT WAS LEFT WE JUST DROPPED EVERYTHING AND WE RAN DEBRIS CAME DOWNBUT FROM THAT TOWER THE
LOBBY HELD AT LEAST THE WINDOWS HELD WEWERECOVERED WITH DEBRIS BUT WE WERE IN THE LOBBY THEN WE HEARD
POUNDING ON THE GLASS FOR SOME OF THE GUYS THAT DIDNT MAKE IT IN THE LOBBY SO WE BROKE OUT THE WINDOWS TO THE FRONT OF AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING WE GOT THOSE GUYS INTO THE LOBBY
CHIEF CARRASQUILLO WASTHERE TOO HE ENDED

SMILEY
HE STARTED TAKING HEAD COUNT AND HE TOLD ME TO TAKE HEAD COUNT THERE WAS LOT OF PEOPLE RUNNING AROUND THAT HAD REALLY THEY WERE LOSING IT IT WAS VERY UNDERSTANDABLE
GRABBED AS MUCH EQUIPMENT AS COULD FROM THE OUTSIDE AND COUPLE OF THE OTHER GUYS AND WE SET UP IN THE BACK PART OF THE LOBBY BLS ON ONE SIDE AND
ALS ON THE OTHER SIDE FIGURING THAT WE WOULD BE
GETTING LOT OF PATIENTS THE AIR WASNOT TOO BAD IN
THERE AND THAVS WHAT WE BASICALLY DID WEFIGURED WE
WOULDGET LARGE INFLUX OF PEOPLE COMING IN AT THAT
POINT NOBODY STARTED COMING IN
AT THAT POINT CHIEF GOLDFARB SAID THAT HE
SMELLED GAS NOBODY SMELLED GAS EXCEPT CHIEF GOLDFARB CHIEF GOLDFARB SMELLING GAS SAVED ABOUT 40
PEOPLE BECAUSE WE MOVED THROUGH THE BACK LOBBY AND OUT THE SIDE ENTRANCE ON TO THE FARTHER END OF VESEY STREET
GOING TOWARDS NORTH END AVENUE
THAVS WHENWE STARTED TO HEAR THE RADIO TRANSMISSIONS OF MAYDAYS ON OUR RADIOS WEHEARD EMS
MAYDAY KNEW OVER CHIEF CARRASQUILLOS RADIO WAS HEARING FD MAYDAYS THIS WENT ON FOR MINUTES
STRAIGHT WE HEARD THE UNITS CALLING WE HEARD OUR UNITS WE HEARD MARY MARY ADAM
UP

SMILEY
WE ASKED CAPTAIN PINCUS ABOUT AFTER
MINUTES WE SAID WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO HERE HE SAID
CANT FORCE YOU TO GO WE SAID WELL WE WANT TO GO
SO ME DANNY AND ANOTHER MEDIC WHO WORKS FOR US BUT HE WAS WORKING FOR NEWYORK HOSPITAL THAT DAY DONT KNOWHIS LAST NAME HE WORKS AT NEW YORK CARLOS
DOYOU REMEMBERHIS FIRST NAME IS CARLOS YES HE SAID IF YOU WANT TO GO FIND THESE
GUYS WE CAN IT DIDNT SEEM LIKE AT THAT POINT THERE
WAS REALLY BESIDES OUR GROUP THERE WAS NOBODY ELSE THERE AT LEAST THAT WAS ALIVE SO WE TOOK TRAUMA BAGS AND STARTED OFF AND OUR SCOOP STRETCHERS OFF AND STARTED OFF WALKING BACK DOWNVESEY AND WE MADE THE TURN ON TO WEST STREET WE PASSED THE BUILDING WITH THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING
REMEMBER SEEING IN FRONT OF THE COLLAPSE UNIT FOR RESCUE THERE WERE BATTALION CHIEFS THAT
WERE THERE AND ASKED THE BATTALION CHIEF DID YOU SEE ANY OF THE GUYS SAID WE CANT SEE ANYBODY WE DONT KNOWWHERE THEY ARE CALLING FOR HELP FOR THAT WAS THE ONLY FIREMEN SAW DIDNT SEE ANYBODY
ELSE DONT KNOWHOWFAR DOWNWE DIDNT GET TOO MUCH FARTHER DOWNWEST STREET LUCKILY
GOING SOUTH

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SMILEY
SOUTH GOING TOWARDS THE NORTH PEDESTRIAN
BRIDGE WHEN YOU HEARD RUMBLE THAVS WHEN YOU LOOKED UP AND YOU SAW THE SECOND TOWER COMING DOWN THERE WASNO COMMUNICATION AT THAT POINT IT WAS
JUST REMEMBER TURNING AND RUNNING KNOWDANNY WE EVENTUALLY FOUND OUT WHEREEVERYBODY RAN TO THE OF
US BUT NEVER SAWTHE TWO OTHER BATTALION CHIEFS
AGAIN KNOWMY PARTNER ENDED UP DRAGGING THE ONE THAT WAS ALIVE OUT
ENDED UP RUNNING BACK UP THE STEPS TOWARDS MADE IT RIGHT TO THE CORNER AND GOT KNOCKED DOWN
BY THE BLAST GUESS IT WASTHE GUSH OF WIND GOT
HIT IN THE BACK WITH SOME CEMENT AND HAD JUST MADE IT
AROUND THE FIRST AMBULANCE AND DOVE UNDER MY TRUCK WHICH WAS VEHICLE 305 THATS WHAT LITTLE VOICE IN
MY HEAD TOLD ME TO DO CRAWLED UNDERNEATH THE AMBULANCE AND THATS WHERE WAS FOR ABOUT THE NEXT 15 MINUTES REMEMBER LOT OF DEBRIS HITTING THE TRUCK AND COULDNT BREATHE AND COULDNT SEE
DONT KNOWHOWLONG THAT WENT ON FOR WHEN IT SOUNDED AS IF THE DEBRIS STOPPED COULDNT THE
SIDES WERE ALREADY COVERED AS IF IT HAD SNOWED SO STARTED TO DIG AND CLEARED ENOUGH AWAY THAT COULD SEE GLOW WHICH KNEW WAS NOT WHICH WAS FIRE

SMILEY
BECAUSE THERE WAS FIRES BURNING AROUNDTHE VEHICLES SO DECIDED IT WASBETTER TO GET OUT AND TRY AND MAKE
IT THAN BURN TO DEATH
SO CRAWLED OUT FROM UNDER THERE AND YOU
COULDNT SEE STILL JUST REMEMBERED THE SAME SIDE OF
THE TRUCK CAME OUT OF SO FIGURED IF POINT MYSELF
IN THE DIRECTION WILL BE GOING AWAY FROM THE TOWERS
SO JUST STARTED CRAWLING AND GOT UP AND STARTED WALKING YOU STILL COULDNT SEE IT WASAS IF YOU HAD YOUR HEAD IN SACK COULDNT BREATHE COULDNT SEE
TRIED CALLING FOR DANNY EVERY TIME TOOK DEEP BREATH IT WAS JUST WORSE AT THAT POINT HAD
DROPPED THE LANTERN HAD THE EQUIPMENT WAS GONE WASNT CONCERNED TOO MUCH ABOUT THAT DIDNT NOTICE AT THE TIME THAT HAD INJURIES TO MYLEG AND STUFF
LIKE THAT JUST TRIED MY ONLY THOUGHT AT THAT
POINT WAS TO GET OUT OF THERE
ENDED UP WALKING ACROSS VESEY INTO
CONSTRUCTION AREA THAT IS IN BETWEEN NORTH END AVENUE AND THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY FOUND CHAIN LINK FENCE THAT BUMPED INTO THAT DECIDED LET MEFOLLOW THE FENCE AND SEE WHERE IT GOES AT LEAST CAN HOLD ON TO SOMETHING WASGOING TO CLIMB OVER THE FENCE AND
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12
SMILEY
DECIDED JUST GO ALONGSIDE IT
FENCE FOR WHILE IT SEEMED LIKE FOREVER
THEN ENCOUNTERED FIREMAN WHO WAS ALSO DISORIENTED DONT KNOWWHO HE IS DONT REMEMBER
HIS NAME DONT REMEMBER WHAT COMPANY WEWALKED TOGETHER ALONG THE FENCE WE STILL COULDNT SEE WE MADE IT AROUND THE SIDE OF THE FENCE THEN WE STARTED HEARING VOICES CALLING ANYBODY OUT THERE WESTARTED
WEJUST FOLLOWED THE NATURAL TURN OF THE FENCE AND
WE ENDED UP FROM WHAT THEY TELL ME SOMEWHERE NEAR NORTH
END AVENUE THERE WAS SALAD BAR THAT WASACROSS FROM MERRILL LYNCH THE MERRILL LYNCH BUILDING AND THERE
WAS ABOUT SEVEN OR EIGHT COPS IN THERE PORT AUTHORITY GUYS COUPLE OF FIREMEN
THE OWNER AND HIS DAUGHTER OR HIS WIFE THEY DRAGGED US IN THERE EVERYBODY THE CLOUD WAS
BUT THERE WAS LOT OF FIRE AROUND
THERE THE PARKED CARS THAT HAD BEEN PARKED THERE WERE
ALL ON FIRE AND WHICH WASNT ON FIRE WAS EXPLODING WE DIDNT KNOWAT THAT POINT KNOWTHAT ONE OF THE
POLICE OFFICERS SAID THAT HE THOUGHT THAT THEY WERE BOMBS AND MAYBE THEY RIGGED THEM TO BLOW UP JUST
CLEARING LIFFLE
WEDIDNT KNOWWHATTO DO WE WENT TOWARDS THE BACK OF THE RESTAURANT
SECONDARY EXPLOSIONS
WENT ALONGSIDE THE

13
SMILEY
THERE WAS COUPLE OF FIREMEN GOT IN THERE ONE
FIREMAN YELLING LEVS GET THE GAS OFF SO HE WENT INTO
THE KITCHEN AREA AND THEY KILLED THE GAS THEY HAD COUPLE OF HOSES THAT HAD THESE BIG INDUSTRIAL SINKS SO WE STARTED HOSING EACH OTHER OFF BECAUSE THE STUFF WAS BURNING YOU GUESS IT WASJUST BECAUSE THE ASH WAS SO HOT
STAYED IN THERE FOR ABOUT 20 MINUTES THE
EXPLOSIONS OUTSIDE WERE TOO MUCH SO WE DECIDED TO GET OUT OF THERE AND WE ENDED UP COMING OUT OF THERE AND WE ENDED UP ON NORTH END AVENUE THEY HAD SET UP FIELD HOSPITAL IN DONT KNOWWHAT BUILDING THEY DRAGGED
US IN THERE FOR WHILE THEN THERE WAS REPORT OF
GAS LEAK IN THERE SO DECIDED IT WOULD BE BETTER IF
EXIT THERE WERE PEOPLE THAT WEREGETTING TREATED
THEY COULD WALK BASICALLY RAN OUT OF THERE EVERYBODY RAN OUT OF THERE
IT MUST HAVE BEEN ABOUT 50 OF US AT THAT POINT PEOPLE STARTED SAYING LEVS GET SOME OF THE
VEHICLES YOU KNOW WE HAD THOUGHT AT THAT POINT THAT
WE NEED SOMETHING TO GET OUT OF THERE SO EMERGENCY SERVICES KNOWTHERE WAS ABOUT SIX OR SEVEN ESU COPS
AND THEY BASICALLY TOLD US THAT THEY ARE GOING TO STAY IN FRONT OF US AND DONT KNOWWHAT THEY THOUGHT

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SMILEY
THINK THEY KIND OF THOUGHT THAT THERE WERE GROUND TROOPS COMING IN TO KILL US NEXT AT LEAST THAT SEEMED TO BE THEY WEREGOING TO KEEP US FROM WHATEVER WAS COMING IT WAS CRAZY PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT THERE WAS THEY WEREGOING TO BOMB EVERYTHING
PEOPLE WERE RUNNING AROUND FBI PEOPLE
SAYING THAT THERE WERE BOMBS IN DIFFERENT PARKS AND
JUST RUNNING FROM ONE AREA TO THE NEXT REMEMBER SEEING CAPTAIN RIVERA THERE FROM MANHATTAN FROM THE BRONX HE IS NOWIN QUEENS WHO REMEMBER WE GOT TO THE POINT WHERE WE WERE ACTUALLY RUNNING OUT OF PLACES TO GO WEWERE GOING TO GO INTO THE WATER SAID MAYBE WE SHOULD TAKE OFF OUR STUFF AND GO INTO THE OCEAN WEDIDNT KNOWWHERE ELSE TO GO
BECAUSE THERE WAS EVERY BUILDING WAS APPARENTLY THE POLICE SAID THERE WAS GAS LEAKS AND THEY SAID THEY WERE GOING TO BLOW UP AND WE HAD NO
PLACE ELSE TO GO SOMEBODY ACTUALLY COUPLE OF GUYS RAN BACK DOWNVESEY AND GOT INTO SOME OF THE
VEHICLES BECAUSE MINE HAD PULLED UP WE HAD ABOUT SEVEN OREIGHT AMBULANCES AT THAT POINT AND COUPLE OF
EMERGENCY SERVICES CARS
BASICALLY WE DIDNT DO MUCH FOR LITTLE
WHILE THERE WAS NOT MUCH TO DO WE WERE KIND OF

15
SMILEY
TRAPPED BACK THERE WE COULDNT GET OUT DONT REMEMBER HOWWE ACTUALLY GOT OUT OF THERE AND WHO
DIRECTED US TO GET OUT OF THERE WEENDED UP
DONT KNOWHOWWEENDED UP WEENDED UP ONGREENWICH STREET GUESS LIKE AN HOUR LATER ABOUT UNITS
ENDED UP ON GREENWICH AND DUANE AND REMEMBER MEETING CAPTAIN NO CHIEF WELLS THERE HE ASKED ME WAS THE LIEUTENANT WITH US SAID NO HE TOLD ME WAS
SENIOR GUY AND HE WASGOING TO TAKE OVER THAT AREA SO
WE SET UP ON GREENWICH STREET
THEY HAD ABOUT OR DOCTORS AND THEY HAD ABOUT AMBULANCES WE SPENT THE BETTER PART OF
THINK OR HOURS THERE DOING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING UNTIL
COLLAPSED WE STILL DID NOTHING BECAUSE THERE WAS NO PATIENTS EVERYBODY IS STILL THERE IS LOT OF
TROUBLE BREATHING YOU JUST KIND OF IGNORED IT
KNEWMY LEG WAS BLEEDING HAD SOME PRETTY BIG CUTS ON
MY LEG BUT REALLY DIDNT JUST BANDAGED IT UP DONT THINK YOU KIND OF KNEW THAT THERE WAS YOU
WEREGOING TO BE NEEDED THEY SAID THAT LOT OF
PEOPLE WERE DEAD SO WE DIDNT EVEN KNOWHOW MANY WERE LEFT
FROM THERE WE WERE ASKED TO RESPOND TO THE MILLENNIUM HOTEL LATER ON IN THE NIGHTTIME BY

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SMILEY
LIEUTENANT JACK SULLIVAN ONE OF THE VOLUNTEERS SAID
THAT THEY HAD REPORTS OF PATIENTS THAT THEY FOUND IN
THE MILLENNIUM SO WE VOLUNTEERED TO GO THERE SO WE
TOOK THE TRUCK AROUND TO THE MILLENNIUM REMEMBER
WERE DRIVING THROUGH THE STREETS SEEING CHIEF GOMBO WALKING WITH RUSS TERRANOVA AND WE CONTINUED GOING DOWN TOWARDSTHE MILLENNIUM ENDED UP NOT FINDING ANYBODY
AT THE MILLENNIUM
WE BROUGHT OUR TRUCKS AROUND TO ONE LIBERTY PLAZA WE WORKED THERE FOR THE NEXT OR HOURS UNTIL
WEWERE RELIEVED AT ABOUT 200 IN THE MORNING WE WORKEDINSIDE THAT FIELD HOSPITAL JUST TAKING CARE OF WHATWASCOMING IN
THROUGHOUT THE NIGHT YOU COULDNT SEE YOU HAD TO WASH YOUR EYES OUT EVERY TO 10 MINUTES IT
WAS PRETTY BLINDING GUESS THE ADRENALINE KEPT GOING THROUGH THE WHOLETIME BECAUSE EVEN AT LIBERTY PLAZA
THERE WERE SEVERAL TIMES WHEN YOU JUST SAWTHE WHOLE BLOCK START RUNNING EVERYBODY WEMUST HAVE RAN UP
AND DOWNTHAT STREET OR TIMES BECAUSE STUFF WAS COMING OFF THE BUILDINGS AND THERE WERE MORE COLLAPSES
IT WASNT TILL GOT RELEASED AND STARTING
COMING BACK GUESS WHENWE STARTED TO LIKE SETTLE

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SMILEY
DOWN LIFFLE BIT BY THE TIME GOT BACK TO BROOKLYN COULDNT BREATHE AT ALL THAVS WHENTHEY TOOK ME OVER TO LONG ISLAND COLLEGE HOSPITAL WAS ADMITTED
FOR SEVERE RESPIRATORY DISTRESS SEVERE SMOKE
INHALATION HAD DEVELOPED INAUDIBLE THEY SAID NOT SO MUCH FROM BEING TRAPPED BUT FROM THE SEVERE
DEHYDRATION FROM THE DUST GUESS FROM THE HEAT BECAUSE IT WAS SO HOT AND YOU DIDNT TAKE YOUR TURNOUT
COAT OFF AND YOUR HELMET DIDNT COME OFF YOUR HEAD BECAUSE YOU WERE AFRAID YOU WERE GOING TO GET HIT WITH
SOMETHING
WAS ADMITTED THERE AND SPENT UP UNTIL
FRIDAY IN THE HOSPITAL WAS RELEASED THAVS ABOUT IT WENT BACK DOWNFRIDAY NIGHT ON MY OWNTIME TO
DIG WITH SOME GUYS FROM NEW YORK HOSPITAL BECAUSE JUST FELT THAT NEEDED TO PITCH IN AND SEE WHAT THERE WAS THAT ABOUT COVERS THE EVENTS THE WAY IT WAS
GARY UNLESS THERE IS ANYTHING ELSE YOU CAN THINK OF OR WANT TO ADD TO IT
JUST LOOKING AT THE QUESTIONS AND STUFF
DONT THINK ANYBODY WAS INTENTIONALLY PUT IN ANY HARMS WAY THERE WAS LOT OF VOLUNTEERS COMING UP TO YOU
SOME THAT NEVER SAW AGAIN HOPE TO GOD THEY DIDNT GET KILLED BUT IT SEEMS AS IF THERE WAS TREMENDOUS

18
SMILEY
AMOUNT OF EMTS THAT WERE COMING OUT OF NOWHERE NOT OUR PEOPLE JUST VOLUNTEER EMTS DONT KNOWWHAT
HAPPENED TO THEM
THERE WAS NO WARNING WHENTHE BUILDINGS CAME
DOWN EVEN AFTER THE FIRST COLLAPSE YOU REALLY DIDNT EVEN HAVE AN INCLINATION THAT THE SECOND TOWER WAS GOING TO COME DOWN DONT THINK ANYBODY WASAWARE THE IMMEDIATE PEOPLE THAT WAS WITH DURING THE COLLAPSE YOU KNOW MET UP WITH DANNY ABOUT HALF AN HOUR 45 MINUTES LATER MORE LIKE AN HOUR LATER
DANNY HAD HID IN THE CORNER OF THE AMEX
BUILDING AND WEDGEDHIMSELF IN BY ONE OF THE WINDOW LEDGES AND HE FLATTENED HIMSELF OUT AND HE FOUND SOME STRETCHERS AND PUT THEM ON TOP OF HIMSELF THAVS WHAT CUSHIONED THE DEBRIS FROM KILLING HIM
THAT WAS IT KNOWTHE OTHER MEDIC THAT WAS WITH US GOT OUT AS WELL HE ENDED UP RUNNING INTO THE
LOBBY AND CONTINUED IN THE LOBBY BECAUSE THE LOBBY WAS CRUSHED THAVS WHAT SAID BEFORE ABOUT GOLDFARB AND THE SMELL OF GAS BECAUSE FROM WHAT HAVE SEEN OF THE BUILDING WEWOULDNT FARE TOO WELL STAYING IN THAT
LOBBY WE PROBABLY WOULD HAVE ALL BEEN CRUSHED
DIDNT SEE ANYBODY THAT WAS MISSING THAT ARE STILL MISSING GUESS THAT ABOUT COVERS IT FOR

SMILEY
NOW 1M SURE IF YOU ASK ME TOMORROW WOULD HAVE
ABOUT 500 MORE THINGS TO SAY 1M SURE YOU DONT WANT TO HAVE DISSERTATION ON MYSTATE OF MIND WONT
GIVE IT TO YOU
ALL RIGHT IF THERE IS ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU
WANT TO ADD LATER ON THAVS NOT PROBLEM WEWILL GET IT IN THERE
YOU KNOW IT WAS JUST THE THING THAT STRUCK
US AS STRANGE WHEN WE FIRST PULLED UP WAS THE SMALL
AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT WERE COMING OUT OF THE BUILDING REMEMBER IN 93 WHEN WE PULLED UP INTO THE SAME SPOT
THERE WAS THOUSAND PEOPLE COMING OUT OF THAT BUILDING WHEN WE PULLED OUT THERE WAS MAYBE 100
THEY WERE MILLING IN THE LOBBY REMEMBER WE HAD TO SCREAM AT THEM TO GET OUT OF THE LOBBY AND TO COME ACROSS THE STREET
THERE WERE LOT OF PEOPLE WHO FINALLY
LISTENED TO US THANK GOD BECAUSE 1M SURE THEY ARE
STILL ALIVE TODAY BECAUSE OF THAT THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT REALLY STOOD OUT WHERE ARE THEY THEN OF
COURSE AFTER THE FIRST ONE COLLAPSED IT WASBASICALLY NOBODY WAS AROUND YOU KNOW THINK EVERYBODY YOU
KNOWTHAT WAS IN MY IMMEDIATE GROUP EVERYBODY REALLY STUCK TOGETHER AND GOT TO GIVE THEM LOT OF CREDIT
19

SMILEY
GIVE GOLDFARB CARRASQUILLO
PINCUS LOT OF CREDIT THEY KEPT THEIR HEADS PRETTY
WELL NOTHING ON THEIR PART ENDANGERED US AT ALL EVERYTHING THAT WE DID WE VOLUNTEERED TO DO
1M SURE THEY WERE YOU KNOW THEY WERE ACTING IN GOOD FAITH TIMING WAS VERY GOOD FOR THEM
IT WASBASICALLY THE ONLY THING THAT STOOD IN THE WAY OF US GETTING KILLED JUST COUPLE OF MINUTES
SO THAT WASABOUT IT
MRTAMBASCO THANK YOU THE INTERVIEW IS
CONCLUDING AT 1503 HOURS THANKS AGAIN
20
AND JACE PINCUS CAPTAIN

FILE NO 9110040
WORLDTRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT ALAN COOKE
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 10 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

COOKE
MRTAMBASCO TODAY IS OCTOBER10 2001 MY NAME IS MIKE TAMBASCO ASSIGNED TO THE WORLD TRADE
CENTER TASK FORCE CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW OF THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 AT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WE ARE INTERVIEWING EMT ALAN COOKE OF BATTALION 31 OF THE EMS THE STARTING TIME FOR THIS INTERVIEW
IS 1737 HOURS
MR COOKE WILL JUST ASK YOU TO GIVE ME
YOUR RANK AND YOUR ASSIGNMENT ON THAT DAY AND FEEL FREE
TO GO RIGHT AHEAD
MY NAME IS ALAN COOKE EMT WAS WORKING
32 ADAM TOUR INITIALLY WHAT REMEMBER OR HOWIT STARTED IS WHEN FIRST CAME INTO WORK SAW THE SMOKE WHEN WASWALKING INTO THE STATION REALLY DIDNT
PAY ANY MIND AS TO WHAT IT MAY HAVE BEEN SOMEBODY TOLD ME PLANE CRASHED INTO THE WORLDTRADE CENTER SO
THOUGHT IT WAS SMALL ENGINE PLANE WHEN GET TO THE PARKING LOT AND SAWTHE FIRST TOWER BURNING
THEN WHILE WASSTANDING IN THE PARKING LOT
THAVS WHEN SAWTHE PLANE CRASH INTO THE SECOND
TOWER SO MY PARTNER AND VICTOR CAMILE WE GOT OUR EQUIPMENT TOGETHER GOT THE BUS CHECKED OUT AND WEWERE ASSIGNED TO 333 RECTOR STREET FOR AN ASTHMATIC THAVS HOWWE ENDED UP GOING INTO MANHATTAN

COOKE
WENT INTO MANHATTAN WE ENCOUNTERED HEAVY
TRAFFIC WHICH REALLY DELAYED OUR RESPONSE TIME GETTING TO RECTOR STREET
HOWDID YOU GOOVER THE BRIDGE
WEWENT OVER THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE WHICH WAS
CLOSED OFF AT THAT TIME WE GOT FLAGGED DOWNBY FIRE LIEUTENANT SO THAT HE COULD GET OVER THE BRIDGE WITH
US WE STOPPED HE GOT ON WE TOOK HIM OVER THE BRIDGE WEDROPPED HIM OFF AT THE FOOT OF THE BRIDGE AND THEN WENT DOWNBY WATERSTREET BECAUSE THAVS THE ONLY WAY KNOWTO GET TO THE WEST SIDE WE DIDNT KNOWEXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING ON AT THAT TIME
LIKE SAID IT WASHEAVY TRAFFIC THINK WE LEFT ON THAT JOB ABOUT 930 HAD TO BE WE WERE
FIGHTING TRAFFIC AND BY THE TIME WE GOT DOWNTHERE HAD NO IDEA WHAT TIME IT WAS ASKED ONE OF THE
OFFICERS WHERE RECTOR STREET WAS SHE DIRECTED US PAST RECTOR STREET BECAUSE YOU KNOW SHE WAS SENDING US TO
THE STAGING GUESS BY THAT TIME THAVS WHENTHEY HAD ALL THE INJURIES FROM THE SECOND
WE MUST HAVE MADE IT TO AS FAR AS MAYBE CEDAR
COMING UP FROM THE SOUTH
YES COMING FROM THE SOUTH HEADING NORTH ON

COOKE
THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY AT THAT TIME WESTOPPED AND THAVS WHEN HEARD THE RUMBLE HEARD RUMBLE
BOTH OF US LOOKED UP AND WESAW PART OF THE
BUILDING SAW PART OF THE BUILDING COMING DOWN
HAD THOUGHT IT WASJUST ONE PIECE OF THE BUILDING COMING DOWN DIDNT IN MY IMAGINATION DIDNT THINK
IT WAS THE ENTIRE BUILDING COMING DOWN AND MY PARTNER GUESS SHE REALIZED IT BEFORE DID SHE
TOLD METO DRIVE KEPT YELLING DRIVE DRIVE JUST YELLED BACK DRIVE WHERE BECAUSE COULDNT GO
FORWARD THAVS WHERE EVERYTHING IS HAPPENING COULDNT GO BACK BECAUSE OF THE CONGESTION FROM THE
CROWD
SO SOMEHOW MADE TURN DONT KNOW
HOW MADE THE TURN DROVE DOWNTHE WEST SIDE AND WENT TO GO UNDER THE OVERPASS THERE IS LITTLE
UNDERPASS
THE TUNNEL UNDERPASS THAT GOES AROUND
RIGHT FIGURED IF WE STOPPED THERE WE WOULD BE ALL RIGHT BUT THEN SAID WELL DONT KNOW
WHAVS HAPPENING WE MIGHT GET TRAPPED IN THERE ANYWAY ON THE WAY IN THAT DIRECTION GOING BACK SOUTH
LOOKED IN MY REARVIEW MIRROR AND THAVS WHENYOU SAW EVERYTHING COMING DOWN ALL YOU SAWWERE PEOPLE

COOKE
RUNNING
REMEMBER THIS ONE COP SHE STANDS OUT IN MY
MIND ONE DARK LITTLE HEAVY COP RUNNING BUT YOU KNOW HOWYOU JUST SAWTHE BALL OF FLAME AND DIRT AND
EVERYTHING IT JUST ENGULFED EVERYBODY SO WE DROVE KEPT TELLING MY PARTNER WE GOT TO GO BACK BECAUSE
KNEWTHERE HAD TO BE PEOPLE HURT
WE GOT TO THE BEGINNING OF THE FOR DRIVE BY THE FERRY AND GUESS BECAUSE OF THE WAYTHE STREETS
CHANNEL EVERYTHING ONE OF THE FIRE BALLS OR WHATEVER
HAD TO HAVE MADE IT AS FAR AS THE SOUTH STREET SEAPORT BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENED AT THAT TIME IT SEEMED LIKE AN EXPLOSION WAS COMING FROM THERE THOUGHT AN
EXPLOSION WAS COMING FROM THERE THAVS WHEN EVERYBODY STARTED RUNNING TOWARDS US FROM THE SEAPORT
NOWWE HAD EVERYBODY RUNNING US FROM THE SEAPORT AND RUNNING TO US FROM THE WEST SIDE SO WE COULDNT GO EITHER WAY THAVS WHEN ALL THE ASH AND EVERYTHING STARTED COMING WE HAD COUPLE OF PEOPLE STOP US BECAUSE THEY WERE COMPLAINING OF CHEST PAIN
AT THAT POINT YOU WERE LIKE WHAT DOWNBY WHERE THE FERRY IS
WEWEREDOWNBY THE FERRY AT THAT TIME WE
HAD COUPLE OF PEOPLE STOP US COMPLAINING ABOUT CHEST

COOKE
PAIN ASTHMACOUPLE OF PREGNANT PEOPLE MOSTLY ABOUT OR COUPLES WERE THROWING THEIR KIDS AT US THEY WANTED TO GET THE KIDS INSIDE NOBODY COULD BREATHE AND EVERYBODY WAS TRYING TO CLIMB UP ON TO THE WALL OF THE FOR DRIVE
THIS GUY FELL OFF THE WALL AND HIT THE BACK
OF HIS HEAD SO THEY WERE CALLING ME FOR THAT SO WE
ARE TRYING TO TREAT ONE WOMANWITH CHEST PAIN AND ONE WOMAN SHE WAS SAYING HER STOMACH HURT AND SHE IS PREGNANT AND THEN WOULD HAVE TO GO IMMOBILIZE THE GUY OFF THE WALL WHOFELL OFF THE WALL AND THE THING
REMEMBER MOST IS WHEN IT GOT DARK WHEN EVERYTHING JUST CLOUDED
KNEW AT THAT TIME THERE WERENT SUPPOSED TO
BE ANY PLANES FLYING BUT HEARD PLANES FLYING AND AT
THAT POINT THOUGHT WASGOING TO DIE REALLY
DID THOUGHT WHAT HAPPENED WASTHAT THERE WAS AN
EXPLOSION AT THE WORLDTRADE CENTER THEN THOUGHT
THERE WAS ANOTHER ONE AT THE SEAPORT THOUGHT THAT
WAS SECONDARY AND HERDING EVERYBODY TOWARDSTHE
BROOKLYN BRIDGE BECAUSE EVERYBODY WAS ASKING ME WHERE SHOULD WE GO WHERE SHOULD WE GO JUST TOLD THEM TO
GET ON THE HIGHWAY AND HEAD NORTH OR TOWARDS BROOKLYN NOW1M THINKING MAYBE EVERYBODY IS HEADING

COOKE
TOWARDSTHE BRIDGE AND NOW HERE COMES EVEN ANOTHER PLANE OR ROCKET OR SOMETHING TO TAKE OUT THE BRIDGE
LUCKILY IT DIDNT HAPPEN WETREATED AS MANY PEOPLE AS WE COULD LIKE SAID IMMOBILIZED THE GUY
WHO FELL OFF THE WALL WE GOT HIM TO BEEKMAN HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TIME IT WAS
YOU WEREABLE TO TRANSPORT HIM IN YOUR BUS
YES WE TRANSPORTED ABOUT ADULTS AND
KIDS DONT KNOWHOWWE HAD THEM SITUATED BUT WE
GOT EVERYBODY TO BEEKMAN AND AS SOON AS PULLED UP TO BEEKMAN GOING THE ROUTE THAT TOOK IS WHEN NOTICED
THE OTHER THAVS WHENTHE SECOND TOWER COLLAPSED
EVERYTHING WAS COMING AT US AS WE WERE TRYING TO GET TO BEEKMAN
YOU WERE GOING UP GUESS WATER STREET THERE
YES SO WE FINALLY MADE IT WE GOT TO
BEEKMAN AND THAVS WHEN THE CLOUD AND EVERYTHING WAS COMING TOWARDS BEEKMAN BY THE TIME WE GOT ALL OF OUR
PATIENTS OUT WEJUST STOPPED AND HELPED GET EVERYBODY IN THAT ALL THE AMBULANCES WEREPULLING UP BEEKMAN
NEEDED SOMEBODY WITH HEAD INJURY TRANSPORTED TO
BELLEVUE SO WE TRANSPORTED THAT GENTLEMAN TO BELLEVUE HE DIDNT MAKE IT

COOKE
THAT WASNTTHE SAME PATIENT THAT YOU
NO IT WASNT DONT KNOWWHATEVER HAPPENED TO HIM WE TOOK THE HEAD INJURY TO BELLEVUE
WE WERE BBP SO WHAT WE DID WAS WE WENT TO THE OLD
BELLEVUE STATION JUST EXCHANGED EQUIPMENT AND WENT BACK UP TO GROUND ZERO
THERE WE ENCOUNTERED FEW MORE PEOPLE TOOK THEM BACK TO BEEKMAN THEN WEWENT BACK UP TO GROUND ZERO
OVER WHERE ON THE WEST SIDE NOWWHEN YOU WENT BACK
YES IT WAS LIKE JUST DRIVING YOU ARE GOING
TO FIND SOMEBODY WE WENT BACK UP AND THAVS BASICALLY
WHEN THINGS WERE MORE OR LESS IN ORDER LIKE SAID HAD NO FRAME HAD NO IDEA WHAT TIME IT WAS DURING
ALL THIS THAVS WHENTHEY SET UP THE TRIAGE AT THE
TERMINAL THE FERRY TERMINAL
DOWNBY THE STATEN ISLAND FERRY
RIGHT AND THEY WANTED THE AMBULANCE STAGED IN CERTAIN WAY 1M GOING TO SAY DIDNT LIKE WHERE
THEY WANTED US STAGED BECAUSE IT WAS LIKE AN ALLEY SO IF ONE VEHICLE WENT DOWNYOU COULDNT GET THE OTHER
VEHICLES OUT SO WE STAGED ON THE CORNER
DURING THAT TIME WE WENT BACK UP TO GROUND

COOKE
ZERO TO SEE IF WE COULD HELP OUT THERE ALL YOU SAW WAS YOU KNOW WHAT WAS LEFT OF THE VEHICLES AND
QUIET IT WAS LIKE SNOWSTORM THERE WAS NOTHING WE COULD DO AT THAT TIME WEWERE RELEASED FROM THE SCENE WE CAME BACK OH WAIT WHILE WE WERE DOWN THERE STAGING YOU RAN INTO LOT OF COWORKERS
MEAN IT WAS JUST UNBELIEVABLE THE WAY WE
ALL GREETED EACH OTHER LIKE WE KNEW HOW LUCKY WE WAS
HAPPY TO SEE EACH OTHER
YES DIDNT WEWENT TO THE FRONT AND SAW
LIKE TWO OR THREE AMBULANCES WERE COMPLETELY DEMOLISHED RAN INTO ONE OF MY COWORKERS WHO HAD GOT OUT JUST IN TIME YOU KNOW AT THE END OF THE DAY
WHOWAS IT
JACKSON CHRIS JACKSON THINK HIS NAME
IS THEN SAW CANT REMEMBER THE PEOPLES NAME MARIA SHE WAS THERE
MARIA
MARIA WHAT IS HER NAME CANT THINK OF
HER NAME CANT THINK OF HER NAME SHE WORKS 32 BOY THEY WERE COVERED SHE JUST LOOKED LIKE BIG
SNOWMAN SO MEAN IT WAS FAST MOVING AND SLOWEST MOVING SLOW MOVING AT THE SAME TIME

10 COOKE
WE WERENT THERE WHENTHE INITIAL IMPACT BUT
WE GOT THERE RIGHT BEFORE THE FIRST TOWER COLLAPSED
THAVS ABOUT IT WEWERE RELEASED FROM THE SCENE
CAME IN AND LUCKILY THEY ALLOWED US TO GO HOME BECAUSE WE WERE SO COVERED WITH EVERYTHING YOU KNOW
FIBERGLASS AND WHATEVERELSE WAS IN THERE
THAVS ABOUT THE END OF MY STORY
OKAY ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU WANT TO ADD TO
IT ANY FEELINGS ANYTHING AT ALL UP TO YOU WELL AS FAR AS FEELINGS ARE CONCERNED
APPRECIATE THE WAY THE WHOLE COMPANYHANDLED THE PERSONNEL JUST THINK LOT OF PEOPLE DONT REALIZE
WHAT WE EMS WENT THROUGH 1M QUITE SURE YOU HAVE HEARD THAT LOT YOU KNOW FIRE WE MIGHT HAVE LOT
OF PEOPLE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT LOST LOT OF PEOPLE PORT AUTHORITY LOST BUT YOU KNOW AS FAR AS EMS
DONT THINK WE WERE RECOGNIZED AS FAR AS OUR PRESENCE
ON THE SCENE YOU KNOW BESIDES THAT NOTHING WASNTTOO HAPPY WITH THE FACT THAT THE
VEHICLES WERE STAGED AROUND THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ESPECIALLY AFTER THE SECOND PLANE HIT
MRTAMBASCO ALL RIGHT ALAN THANK YOU FOR
YOUR INTERVIEW AND THE INFORMATION AND JUST WEWILL CONCLUDE THIS INTERVIEW AT 1749 HOURS

FILE NO 9110041
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT JARJEAN FELTON
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 10 2001

FELTON
PAUL RADENBERG THE DATE IS OCTOBER 10 2001 THE TIME IS 1611 HOURS THIS IS PAUL RADENBERG OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OFNEWYORK IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH JARJEAN FELTON EMT AT BATTALION 31 EMS BATTALION 31 THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OFNEWYORK WEARE CURRENTLY AT EMS BATTALION 31 THE INTERVIEW IS REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001 WHYDONT YOU START WITH WHEN YOU WERE ASSIGNED TO THE JOB
JARJEAN FELTON GETTING BREAKFAST
IT ALL STARTED MEAN ME AND MY PARTNER WEWAS
WHOWERE YOU WORKING WITH
SEAN CUNIFFE 48 DAVID TOUR TWO ME AND CUNIFFE WEWASGETTING BREAKFAST RIGHT HERE ON FULTON STREET FULTON AND FLATBUSH AND IM NOT SURE IF THERE WAS ALREADY UNIT DOWNTHERE WHENTHE FIRST PLANE HIT IM NOT SURE WEJUST HEARD THEM ARGUING OR SAYING HELP PLANE HIT THIS AND THAT THE WORLD TRADE TOWER SO WE ASKED
HIM TO PUT US ON THAT JOB CAUSE WE HEARD THEM CALLING GUESS 31 ADAM FROM OUR SAME BATTALION ON THE JOB SO WETOLD THEM WETOLD THE DISPATCHER TO PUT 48 DAVID ON WE ASKED TO BE PUT ON THE JOB WOULD SAY LIKE WE WAS ONE OF THE FIRST UNITS PUT ON THE JOB CAUSE IF YOU GO OVER THE MR YOU SEE 48 DAVID TOUR WE WAS ONE OF THE FIRST UNITS PUT ON THE JOB THIS WAS AFTER THE FIRST PLANE HIT SO WERE GOING ACROSS THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE WE SEE THE FIRE WE SEE THE HOLE IN THERE WERE JUST THINKING HOLY MAN WHAT HAPPENED YOU KNOWWHAT IM SAYING SO WEGET DOWNTHERE
WHENYOU CAME OVER THE BRIDGE

FELTON
WE CAME OVER THE BRIDGE THEY HAD EVERYTHING BLOCKED OFF IT WAS LIKE MOTORCADE WEJUST FOLLOWED ALL THE DONT KNOW THEY WAS UNMARKED CARS SO ASSUME THE FIRE DEPARTMENT THE FEDS WEJUST FOLLOWED THEM ONTO THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE AND DOWN THERE WE CAME DOWN THINK WE CAME DOWNCHAMBERS NO NOT CHAMBERS WE CAME DOWN ONE OF THESE STREETS WOULD SAY FULTON CAME DOWN WE WENT UP VESEY STREET WOULD SAY BERKLEY STREET ON THE WESTSIDE HIGHWAY THEY HAD TRIAGE RIGHT IN FRONT GUESS ON CHURCH STREET HAD WANTED TO GO THERE BUT SEAN WAS LIKE NO NO LETS GO BEHIND LIKE WHERE THEY ASSIGNED US TO CAUSE IT WAS UNITS THERE IT WAS MEDIC AND 31 DAVID IM NOT SURE OF THE MEDIC BUT IT WAS 31 DAVID THEYRE ANOTHER UNIT ASSIGNED TO OUR STATION SO HAD WANTED TO GO DOWNTHERE BECAUSE KNEW THE GUYS SO WANTED TO GIVE THEM SOME SUPPORT BUT HE WASLIKE COMEON LETS GO TO THE BACK WEWENT TO THE BACK VESEY STREET AND WESTSIDE HIGHWAY THATS EXACTLY WHERE OUR TRIAGE WAS AT WE PARKED OUR VEHICLE RIGHT HERE ON VESEY STREET IT WAS LIEUTENANT RIGHT HERE TAKING OUR KEYS
LIEUTENANTS
DID YOU RECOGNIZE THAT LIEUTENANT
NO CAUSE IVE ONLY BEEN HERE LIKE YEAR SO DONT KNOW ALL THE
RIGHT
MY PARTNER SAID HE KNEW HIM WEGAVE THE LIEUTENANT OUR KEYS LIKE WE
NORMALLY DO WHEN YOU GO TO SET UP TRIAGE GUESS ALL THE AMBULANCE PARKED RIGHT HERE IT

FELTON
WAS AMBULANCES IT WASFIRE TRUCKS IT WASEVERYTHING RIGHT HERE ON WESTSIDE HIGHWAY IT WAS VOLUNTARIES SEEN FIRE PATROL THATS WHERE SEEN VON ESSEN RIGHT THERE ON
WESTSIDE HIGHWAY AND VESEY STREET RIGHT THERE WEWAS RIGHT HERE ON THE WESTSIDE BY
THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING WHERE THEY GOT THE MAKESHIFT MORGUE NOWHE WASRIGHT UNDER HERE THIS FOOT BRIDGE
THE PEDESTRIAN OVERPASS
THE PEDESTRIAN OVERPASS THIS WASPROBABLY LIKE CAUSE LOOKED AT THAT MIR THE FIRST UNIT WAS THERE AT LIKE 85 SO WOULD SAY THIS WAS LIKE 10 WOULD
SAY IM NOT SURE THE TIME
OKAY
GIVE OR TAKE COUPLE MINUTES IM NOT SURE THE TIME WE WASTHERE WOULD SAY AT LEAST 15 OR 10 MINUTES THERE WASPEOPLE JUMPING WEOBSERVED FIREFIGHTERS GOING IN WE OBSERVED ESU GETTING ON THEIR SCOTT PACKS GOING INTO BUILDINGS AND ALL THAT
WOULD SAY RIGHT AROUND THAT TIME WHILE WEWERE RIGHT UNDER HERE UNDER THE WESTSIDE
HIGHWAY AND PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE SEEN SECOND PLANE COMING IM THINKING ISNT THAT PLANE TOO LOW IM LIKETHEN NOTICED SEEN IT TURN IT TURNED AND WENT RIGHT IN THE
BUILDING BUT WERE BEHIND LIKE THIS IS THE BUILDING IT WENT IN AND YOU SEE THE EXPLOSION IN THE FRONT
ON THE OTHER SIDE THAN YOU
YEAH WE SEE AND SAID OH MY GOD IJUST SAT THERE WITH MY MOUTH OPEN LIKE OH MY GOD OH MY GOD IM SITTING THERE LIKE OH MY GOD AND EVERYONES JUST

FELTON
RUNNING BUT IM LIKE WHY ARE WERUNNING ITS ON THE CHURCH SIDE THAT ALL THAT DEBRIS AND STUFF WAS FROM WE WAS ON THE WESTSIDE HIGHWAY SO AFTER THAT THEY TOLD US TO GET ALONG THIS IT WASLIKE THIS LITTLE LIKE LITTLE SIDEWALK WITH GRASS AND ALL THAT THEY TOLD US TO MOVE ALL OF OUR EQUIPMENT WE HAD UNLOADED OUR BUS WE HAD LONG BOARD WE HAD OUR STRETCHER WE HAD OUR DE FIB WE HAD ALL OUR STUFF OUT WE HAD OUR JACKETS AND OUR HELMETS ON SO THEY TOLD US TO MOVE RIGHT HERE ALONG THE SIDEWALK SO AFTER THAT AFTER THE SECOND PLANE THEY TOLD US TO MOVE UP CAUSE WE WAS ORIGINALLY IN THE STREET THE TOLD US
TO MOVE AFTER THE SECOND PLANE THEN FIVE MINUTES LATER YOU HAD TO MOVE BACK TOWARDS THE WATER
NO THEY HAD US MOVE LIKE TOWARDSTHE BUILDING MORE
OKAY
CAUSE WE WAS IN THE STREET WEWAS IN THE STREET THEN THEY TOLD US TO MOVE
TOWARDS THE BUILDING MORE THEN EVENTUALLY WE ENDED UP IN THE BUILDING LOBBY IN THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING
IN THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING WE ENDED UP IN THE LOBBY WE RE IN THE LOBBY THEY GAVE US ORDERS TO GO INTO THE LOBBY TAKE ALL OUR EQUIPMENT WHATEVER INTO THE LOBBY BECAUSE THE SECOND PLANE HAD JUST HIT THERES PEOPLE JUMPING AT LEAST COUNTED MORE THAN DIDNT COUNT BUT AT LEAST MINIMUM OF 50 PEOPLE JUMPING SEEN
MINIMUM OF 50 PEOPLE JUMP COUPLES HOLDING HANDS BUT WAS JUST SO LIKE OH MY GOD IVE NEVER SEEN NOTHING LIKE THAT CAUSE IVE ONLY BEEN HERE YEAR IVE NEVER SEEN NOTHING LIKE THAT SO WERE IN THE BUILDING WERE IN THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING RIGHT

FELTON
HERE WERE IN THERE SO WEGOT ALL OUR EQUIPMENT ALL THE EMS PERSONNEL THERES LOT OF PEOPLE IN THERE
RIGHT
THE LIEUTENANT TOLD US TO TAKE ALL OUR EQUIPMENT AND GO IN THERE SO GO IN THERE TRY TO USE MY CELL PHONE TO LET MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS KNOWWHATS GOING ON TELL THEM IF THEYRE COMING TO THE CITY NO DONT COMETO THE CITY LET MY FIANCE KNOW THAT IM ALRIGHT SO IM ON THE PHONE THEN JUST HEAR COMMOTION OF PEOPLE SCREAMING LIKE AHHHHHHHHHH MY GIRLFRIENDS LIKE WHATS GOING ON WHATS GOING ON IM LIKE
DONT KNOW GOTTA GO SO IJUST DROPPED THE PHONE AND AS THIS BUILDING IS LIKE GLASS MADE OF GLASS
RIGHT
SO THAT TIME JUST DROPPEDTHE PHONE AND RUN SEE TOWERNUMBER
COMING DOWN JUMPED OVER THE FENCE IN THAT BUILDING YEAH
JUMPED OVER FENCE COMING DOWN THE GLASSTHERE WASANOTHER FENCE THAT COULDNT JUMP OVER CAUSE IT HAD SPIKES MEAN IT HAD THE GATE WITH SPIKES WAS
LIKE MAN IM NOT HURTING MYSELF SO WENT AROUND AND AS WENT AROUND IM SITTING AND
WATCHING THE BUILDING COME DOWN IM WATCHING THE BUILDING COMING DOWNAND IM STANDING THERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF THESE GUYS BUT IM NOT REALLY IM JUST SHOCKED LIKE
GUESS ME AND MY PARTNER WERE IN THIS BUILDING WERE IN THERE WITH 31 ADAM COUPLE OF UNITS FROM OUR STATION THE BUILDINGS COMING DOWNAND SEE IT IJUST STOP IM JUST

FELTON
SITTING THERE WATCHING IT COME DOWN SITTING IN FRONT OF ALL OF THESE GUYS THEN JUST HEAR
SOMEBODY CALL MY NAME FELTON FELTON COME ON SO IJUST WAKE UP LIKE OUT OF MY TRANCE LIKE OH NO AND IJUST START RUNNING WE RAN RIGHT OUT THE DOOR ITS LIKE PD LOT OFCIVILIANS WASTHERE TOO SOPDTHEY PROPPEDTHEDOOROPENWERUNOUTTHEBACKOFTHE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING SO WERE LIKE RIGHT HERE THE BUILDINGS COMING DOWNSO ITS THE SMOKE THATS CHASING YOU NOW SO WERAN UP THIS WAY WE RAN UP VESEY TO THE NORTH END THEN THEY TOLD US TO PARK OUR VEHICLES HERE ON THE NORTH END AND SET UP ANOTHER
NOTICE THERES LIKE ONE OR TWO VEHICLES LEFT HERE 407 WAS LEFT HERE CAUSE IT WOULDNT START WE HAD EMT JACKSON WITH US HES 31A HES THE PERSON WHOJUST CALLED ME AND WOKE ME UP SO WE HAD HIM ON OUR BUS DROVE IT RIGHT HERE TO THE NORTH END
RIGHT BEHIND VESEY AND NORTH END SO WERE RIGHT HERE THE MERV IS RIGHT HERE ALL OF EMS LOT OF FIRE DEPARTMENT LOT OF DEPARTMENT VEHICLES ESU BUT IT WAS STILL VEHICLES LIKE HAZTAC UNITS SEEN THE HAZTAC UNITS SEEN THE GUYS WITH LIKE THE TINFOIL
SUITS SEEN LOT OF FIRE TRUCKS LEFT THERE WHENTHE SECOND BUILDING CAME DOWN THE SMOKE ALL THE RUBBLE EVERYTHING WE HAVE ON THE MASKS NOW ME LIKE ME AND MY PARTNER WE JUST JUMPED IN WE PARKED RIGHT THERE SO WENT DOWN WENT BACK DOWN DONT KNOWWHAT MADE ME GO RIGHT DOWN GOBACK DOWNIM LIKE OH MAN OH DAMN ITS LIKE STILL SEE SOME PEOPLE THERE BUT AT THAT TIME DONT KNOWWHAT POSSESSED ME TO GO BACK DOWN GO BACK DOWNITS LIKE STUFF DEBRIS IS ALL OVER THE PLACE SO GO BACK DOWN TO TAKE LOOK THEN IJUST COMEBACK UP LIKE YO ITS CRAZY WEWERE RIGHT HERE IM NOT REALLY SURE WHAT TIME IT IS IM REALLY NOT SURE WHAT TIME IT IS CAUSE IM NOT WORRIED
TRIAGE

FELTON
ABOUT THAT WASNT WORRIED ABOUT THE TIME LOOKED FOR MY PARTNER THEY WAS LIKE
MAKE SURE YOU HAVE YOUR PARTNER YOU TWO STAY TOGETHER CAUSE THEY WAS STRESSING THAT MAKE SURE YOUR PARTNER IS WITH YOU AT ALL TIMES SO WE WERE TOGETHER AFTER THAT
DONT KNOWWHAT HAPPENED REALLY DONT KNOW WHATS GOING ON REALLY IM NOT REALLY SURE WHATS GOING ON BY THAT TIME IT WAS ONE WAS STILL ON FIRE THAT WASTHE LAST ONE HIT BUT THAT WAS THE FIRST ONE TO COME DOWN WOULD SAY LIKE RIGHT WHEN GOT BACK TO VESEY AND NORTH THATS WHEN ONE CAME DOWN AT THAT TIME JUST LEFT MY VEHICLE AND EVERYBODYS JUST RUNNING UP NORTH END AVENUE WHATEVER AVENUE IT IS EVERYONE IS RUNNING UP REMEMBER SEEING WERE ALL RUNNING RUNNING LIKE THERES LITTLE PARK HERE WERE RUNNING ALONGSIDE THERE SEEN FIREMEN SEEN EVERYBODY SEEN ALL TYPES OF EQUIPMENT LAYING DOWN ON THE GROUND SEEN SCOTT PACKS MAKING THAT NOISE
THE ALARM
YEAH THE ALARM FOR LIKE SAY SOMEBODY GOT KNOCKED OUT AND THEYRE LAYING MOTIONLESS THAT ALARM IS GOING OFF JUST HEARD THAT YOU JUST SEEN WHOLE BUNCH OF
EQUIPMENT ALL OVER THE PLACE EVERYBODY JUST RAN EVERYBODY WASJUST RUNNING LIKE YO SO WERE ALONG THIS WERE IN THE PARK WERE OVER HERE THE FIRST BUILDING CAME DOWN
EVERYBODYS LIKE YO ME AND MY PARTNERS RUNNING TOGETHER THEN JUST TURNED BACK AND LOOKED LIKE OH MAN IM NOT SURE WHERE THE HELL WE WENT BUT KNOW WE WAS COVERED
WITH DUST AFTER THE FIRST ONE CAME DOWN EVERYONE WAS LIKE OH MAN SEEN FIREFIGHTERS THERES STILL PEOPLE IN THERE ITS TOTAL CHAOS AT THIS POINT TOTAL CHAOS CAUSE NOBODY

FELTON
WOULD HAVE EXPECTED THOSE BUILDINGS TO COME DOWN ITS TOTAL CHAOS AND NOTICED THAT WHEN TOWER ONE COMES DOWNTHATS WHEN THE GLASS IN THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING BREAKS SO WERE ALL OVER HERE SOMEHOW GO BACK TO GET MY VEHICLE DONT KNOWWHAT POSSESSED ME CAUSE ITS RIGHT HERE WENT BACK GOT MY VEHICLE PICKED UP MY PARTNER WERE JUST LIKE DRIVING AROUND HES CALLING HIS FAMILY LETTING THEM KNOW THAT HES
ALRIGHT SOMEHOWWEMADE IT TO CHAMBERS TO THE HIGH SCHOOL THE HIGH SCHOOL THAT THEY JUST TOOK OVER
RIGHT STUYVESANT
STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL THEY JUST TOOK OVER THATS WHERE WE GOT
SEPARATED CAUSE WE HAD PATIENT THERE WEHAD PATIENT HE WAS THE DRIVER WAS THE TECH WE HAD PATIENT WEHAD PATIENTS BASICALLY WE HAD AN ESU GUY WHO SAID HE
JUST MADE IT OUT THE BUILDING HE WAS ALRIGHT HE WASNT REALLY WORRIED ABOUT HIS INJURIES HE WAS JUST LIKE GOTTA GO BACK IN THERE GOTTA GO GET MY GUYS HE WASJUST WORRIED ABOUT GOING TO GET HIS GUYS HE SAID YO LOST MY GUYS AND THIS AND THAT DONT REMEMBER HIS NAME BUT REMEMBER HIM BECAUSE HE WAS ON THE NEWS LIKE DAY OR TWO LATER SAYING THAT HE JUST MADE IT OUT ESU IM NOT SURE MAYBE HES SARGENT IM NOT SURE BUT REMEMBER SEEING HIM ON THE NEWS SAYING THAT WAS LIKE WOWTHAT WAS ONE OF MY PATIENTS IT WAS HIM AND ANOTHER CIVILIAN CONTRACTOR HE WAS HAVING AN MI BUT HE DIDNT KNOW SO MEDIC JUMPED ON HOOKED HIM UP TO AN EKG LIKE YO YOU HAVING AN MI SO TOOK OFF MY JACKET HAD MY HELMET STILL WITH ME MY PARTNER WAS LIKE WERE GONNA TAKE HIM TO THE HOSPITAL WAS LIKE YOU GOT MEDIC HERE SO IM ALRIGHT IM

FELTON
AIRIGHT ILL JUST GO BACK TO THE COMMAND AND JUST CHILL OUT THERE AT STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL AT THAT TIME THERE WAS PEOPLE JUST RAPING OUR BUS JUST TAKING ALL OUR STUFF LIKE
OXYGEN TAKING EVERYTHING THEY CAN GET THEIR HANDS ON LIKE WERE JUST GONNA TAKE YOUR BUS AND JUST THERES LOT OF PATIENTS AND YOU AINT GONNA NEED ALL THIS ITS RESTOCKING
STATION AT BELLVUE SO JUST RE STOCK THEN COME BACK SO THATS BASICALLY MEAN STAYED
WHEN GOT TO
STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL WAS LIKE DANG KNOW THERES STILL PEOPLE IN
CAUSE SEEN LOT OF PEOPLE RUNNING IN THE BUILDING THE TIME WE SHOWED UP GETTING IN
SCOTT PACKS AND RUNNING IN THE BUILDING SO KNOWTHERES PEOPLE IN THERE KNOW THERES LIKE MAN NOBODY WOULD HAVE EVER THOUGHT THEM BUILDINGS WOULD COME DOWN IM JUST SITTING THERE IN AMAZEMENT THE NEWYORK CITY SKYLINE IS JUST DEPLETED NOWWITH THESE TWO BUILDINGS GONE BASICALLY STAYED ON CHAMBERS MEAN THE ONLY THING THAT REALLY HAD ME FRUSTRATED WAS THEY WASNT REALLY TRYING TO LET US GO BACK DOWNTHERE
AFTER THE COLLAPSE OF THE SECOND BUILDING
YEAH THE SECOND BUILDING THEY WASNT TRYING TO LET US GO DOWNTHERE THEY HAD LOT OF EMS PERSONNEL KNOW THERE WAS STILL PEOPLE AROUND GROUND ZERO THERE HAD TO BE SOME PEOPLE TRAPPED UNDER TRUCKS KNOWTHAT BUT THEY WASNT TRYING TO LET US GO DOWN THATS THE ONLY THING REALLY WANTED TO KNOW WHY UNDERSTAND AFTER IT WAS UNSAFE CAUSE GUESS AFTER THAT CAME DOWN WELL DIDNT COME DOWNUNTIL LIKE
OCLOCK SO WAS JUST WONDERING THEY JUST KEPT US COOPED UP IN THERE FOR LONG
THERE THE WHOLE TIME WAS REALLYCAUSE DIDNT KNOWWHAT TO THINK
THAT BUILDING
10

FELTON
TIME THEY WOULD OCCASIONALLY LET US GO BACK OUT WENT BACK OUT AND WALKED AROUND
IT WAS MESSED UP EVERYBODY TALKING ABOUT AROUND THAT TIME THERES ANOTHER PLANE COMING MEANWE DIDNT KNOWBECAUSE WE DIDNT HAVE TV AND WE DIDNT HAVE
RADIO WE WASJUST GOING OUR WAY WE HEARD IT FROM THE FBI AGENTS OR AGENTS DOWN THERE WESEE PEOPLE JUST RUNNING MEAN FEEL REALLY BAD FOR THE PEOPLE THAT WASON THE CHURCH SIDE CAUSE THEY REALLY TOOK THE BRUNT OF THE DEBRIS ON THAT SIDE HEARD THAT AN AMBULANCE JUST GOT CRUSHED ON THAT SIDE THATS WHY REALLY THANK MY PARTNER FOR BEING LIKE LETS GO TO THE VESEY SIDE CAUSE THERE WAS ANOTHER TRIAGE SET UP ON THE CHURCH SIDE AND GUESS THEY WAS HIT HARD WHEN THE BUILDINGS COLLAPSED AND WHEN THAT SECOND AIRPLANE HIT REALLY THANK HIM FOR THAT OTHER THAN THAT WE WASJUST COOPED UP IN STUYVESANT
HIGH SCHOOL FOR THE WHOLE TIME OCCASIONALLY THEY LET PEOPLE GO BACK DOWNTO THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING LATER THAT NIGHT AFTER CAME DOWNTHEY HAD IT AS MAKE SHIFT MORGUE TOO IT WAS MORGUE AFTER THAT WAS DOWNTHERE WENT DOWNTHERE TO DO MORGUE DUTY LATER ON WAS JUST HAPPY WHEN SEEN MEMBERS FROM MY BATTALION COME
WAS HAPPY TO SEE MEMBERS FROM EMS PERIOD THEY HAD CITY BUSSES FOR THE EMS WORKERSAND ALL THAT WAS HAPPY TO SEE THEM WAS JUST HAPPY TO SEE FAMILIAR FACES THAT
KNOW THAT WASBASICALLY ALL IM SORRY FOR NOT KNOWING THE TIMES
UP
THERE
NO NOT PROBLEM
WASNT WORRIED ABOUT KNOWING THE TIMES WAS JUST TRYING TO GET UP OUTTA
RIGHT RIGHT
11

FELTON
THATS JUST THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE IJUST KNOW THAT SPENT THE NIGHT DOWN THERE THATS ALL KNOW
YOU SAID IN THE BEGINNING THAT WHEN YOU WERE STARTING YOU AND SEAN WERE GETTING BREAKFAST ON FULTON STREET OKAY AND YOU HEARD 31 ADAM 31 ADAM WAS ALREADY IN MANHATTAN
NO AS MATTER OF FACT 31 DAVID WAS ALREADY IN MANHATTAN 31 DAVID THAT WASTHE UNIT THAT WAS ALREADY IN MANHATTAN THEY WAS CALLING 31 ADAM
BACK TOO
OH TO GIVE THEM THE JOB
TO GIVE THEM THE JOB SO WE HEARD THEM AND WE WAS LIKE PUT US ON THE
RIGHT
CAUSE WE WAS LIKE ON FULTON AND FLATBUSH WEWAS RIGHT THERE BY THE
MANHATTAN OR THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE SO WE WAS LIKE GIVE US THE JOB WE MADE IT THERE BEFORE 31 ADAM WHEN WE PULLED UP ON VESEY STREET WE CAME DOWN VESEY STREET
RIGHT
NOW REALLY REMEMBER WE CAME DOWN VESEY STREET PROBABLY HIT FULTON CAME DOWNVESEY AND THEN HE MADE US PARK RIGHT HERE SO WEWENT UP THE END OF THE BLOCK MADE UTURN CAME BACK AROUND AND PARKED THATS EXACTLY HOW REMEMBER IT NOW WE CAME DOWN VESEY WENT UP DID UTURN
12

FELTON
PARKED RIGHT HERE WOULD SAY BY THE MERRYL LYNCH BUILDING LIKE IN BETWEEN THAT WE PARKED RIGHT BETWEEN THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING AND THE MERRYL LYNCH WHATS THAT
MOVE IT
YEAH WORLD FINANCIAL OKAY WHAT WAS YOUR VEHICLE NUMBER
UM 94 94
YEAH 94 WE WAS PARKED RIGHT THERE
AND THEN YOU MOVED IT AGAIN AFTER THE SECOND PLANE WENT IN THEY HAD TO
NO NO AFTER THE SECOND PLANE CAME IN THEY HAD US MOVE INTO THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING IT WASNT UNTIL AFTER THE SECONDBUILDING CAME DOWN THAT THEY TOLD US TO MOVE RIGHT THERE
AND THATS NORTH END AVENUE AND MURRAY STREET
YEAH WOULD SAY AROUND THERE
AND YOU SAID THAT VEHICLE 407 WAS ALSO THAT WASTHAT ASSIGNED HERE YES IT REMAINED HERE BECAUSE IT WAS DEAD
THAT WAS EMT JACKSONS VEHICLE
YEAH JACKSON 31 ADAM AND EMT WRIGHT YEAH JACKSON AND WRIGHT OKAY
13

FELTON
IT REMAINED THERE THE WHOLE EVEN UNTIL THE NIGHT TIME CAUSE WHEN CAME BACK LATER ON TO DO MORE DUTY IT WAS STILL THERE IT WAS CLEANED OUT BUT IT WAS STILL THERE
THOUGH
HAD NO PATIENTS
OKAY SO WHENYOU FIRST GOT HERE TO THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING YOU
NO PATIENTS AT THAT POINT
SO YOUR FIRST PATIENT WASWHEN YOU WERE UP AT THE HIGH SCHOOL
YEAH BASICALLY WE HAD NO PATIENTS FROM THIS SIDE BECAUSE WELL THE BRUNT OF THE WORKWAS BEING DONE ON THE CHURCH SIDE THIS WAS BEHIND WOULD SAY IT WAS HOTZOLLAH FEW METROCARE LOT OF PRIVATE AND WEWERE THERE TOO RIGHT THERE WHERE WE WAS AT OUR EMS LIEUTENANT TOOK CONTROL OF THEIR UNITS TOO
DO YOU REMEMBER ANY OTHER EMS PERSONNEL FROM THE DEPARTMENT THAT WAS
IN THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING
REMEMBER MYPARTNER JACKSON WRIGHT THATS BASICALLY IT THERE WAS
PROBABLY LIKE OR FDNY AND THE REST WAS PRIVATE ALONG THIS STREET THEY TOLD US JUST TO WAIT RIGHT THERE THATS ANOTHER THING THAT HAD ME PISSED OFF TOO NOT PISSED OFF JUST
KINDA UPSET BECAUSE WERE ON THIS JOB WERE JUST SITTING HERE NOT DOING NOTHING MEAN THERES PATIENTS BUT WEGOTTAJUST SIT IN HERE MEAN GUESS THEY DID IT FOR CERTAIN
REASON WASNT THERE TO DISPUTE THATS NOT MYJOB IJUST DID WHAT THEY TOLD ME TO DO THEY TOLD ME TO WAIT RIGHT HERE WAIT FOR PATIENTS BUT KNEW THAT ALL OF THE BRUNT OF THE
14

FELTON
WORKWAS ON THE CHURCH SIDE THATS WHY WANTED TO GO THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE CAUSE IVE NEVER SEEN NOTHING LIKE THIS IM PROBABLY TRAUMA BUFF OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT DONT KNOW WE WENT THERE THAT WAS OUR FIRST PATIENT WHENWE GOT TO STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL WOULD SAY 1300 OR 1400 HOURS IM NOT REALLY SURE WHAT TIME IT WAS
AND WHEN YOURE AT THE HIGH SCHOOL YOU AND YOUR PARTNER SPLIT UP RIGHT
BEFORE YEAH RIGHT WHEN WEGOT THE PATIENT THATS WHEN WE SPLIT UP CAUSE HE WAS DRIVING AND THE MEDIC JUMPED IN THE BACK AND WAS LIKE MEAN KNOW THERES NOTHING REALLY FOR ME TO DO EXCEPT SIT HERE AND RIDE THERES MEDIC SO JUST STAYED
SO SEAN DROVE WITH THE MEDIC
YEAH
WAS THE MEDIC FROM THE CITY
HE WAS FROM THE DEPARTMENT YEAH FDNY YEAH DIDNT KNOW HIM
MEAN DID SEE FEW MEDICS THAT KNEW RIGHT BEFORE WEGOT THE PATIENT THEY WAS LIKE OH WE JUST GOT OUTTA HERE WETOOK PATIENT THAT WAS BURNT 9000 TO CORNELL THIS AND THAT BUT WHEN WE GOT OUR PATIENT DIDNT KNOW THE MEDIC GAVE HIM OXYGEN WIPED HIS FACE OFF HE WASJUST SHAKEN UP HES LIKE JUST GOT OUTTA THERE WITH THIS GUY TOO GUESS HIM AND THE ESU GUY WAS ON THE SAME FLOOR HE SAID THAT HE WAS ON THE SECOND FLOOR AND THEY HAD JUST GOT HIM OUT
AND THE ESU COP DO YOU REMEMBER HIM SAYING WHAT TOWER HE WAS IN IM ABOUT TO SAY TOWER YEAH TOWER
15

BETWEEN
FELTON
HE WAS IN TOWER
YES HE WAS IN TOWER OKAY AND YOU WERE TREATING
HIM AFTER TOWERONE CAME DOWNOR IN
NO THIS WASWAY AFTER WAY AFTER BOTH BUILDINGS CAME DOWN IM NOT REALLY SURE OF THE TIME BUT THIS WAS AFTER BOTH OF THEM CAME DOWN THIS WAS WHEN THEY WAS LIKE ITS UNSAFE TO GO DOWNTHERE EVERYBODY COME BACK THATS WHEN ALL OF THE BUILDINGS IN THE SURROUNDING AREA WAS ON FIRE THATS WHEN THEY WAS WORRIED ABOUT COMING DOWN THIS WASAFTER THEY HAD MOVEDTHEY HAD TRIAGE POINT AT STUYVESANT HAD
LITTLE MAKESHIFT HOSPITAL THERE ONE OF THE MAIN TRIAGES WAS AT CHELSEA PIERS
WHENYOU WERE AT THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING YOU ONLY SAW THE ONE
EMS LIEUTENANT
THERE WAS FEW EMS LIEUTENANTS BUT HE WAS THE ONE THAT WAS DIRECTING TRAFFIC IT WASEMS LIEUTENANTS RIGHT THERE AT VESEY AND WESTSIDE HIGHWAY WAS
MAINLY RIGHT THERE AMONG THE FIREFIGHTERS AND ALL THE ESU COPS SPECIFICALLY SEEN VON ESSEN RIGHT THERE AT WESTSIDE HIGHWAY AND VESEY REMEMBER BECAUSE WAS LEANING
AGAINST ONE OF THE TRUCKS REMEMBER SOMEBODY SAYING THEY WAS SUCHANDSUCH COMMISSIONER OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT ASKING ONE OF THE FIRE PATROLS FOR SCOUT PACK SEEN AT LEAST 50 60 GUYS RUN IN THE BUILDING THEN IT CAME DOWN GUESS THE SECOND
PLANE JUST CAUGHT EVERYBODY BY SURPRISE CAUSE EVERYBODY JUST THOUGHT IT WAS THE FIRST
16

FELTON
TOWER THEN THE SECOND PLANE HIT IN MATTER OF MINUTES OR LESS THE SECOND TOWERCOME
DOWNFIRST SEEING THOSE PEOPLE JUMP CAUSE NOBODY WANTED TO BURN SEEING THOSE
PEOPLE JUMP IT WASJUST HORRIFIC REALLY NOT ONLY SEEING THEM JUMP BUT SEEING THEM LAND TOO IT WASHORRIFIC KNOW LOT OF THOSE WHOJUMPED AT LEAST 50 PROBABLY 100 THAT THEY CANT FIND CAUSE ALL THAT RUBBLE IS ONTOP OFTHEM THATS HIGH NUMBER MEAN
NOTHING ELSE JUST SEEING EVERYBODY RUNNING LEAVING THEIR EQUIPMENT LEAVING THEIR BUS
EVERYTHING HALF THE
THEN GOING BACK DOWN THERE LATER ON THAT NIGHT AND JUST SEEING FIRE TRUCKS IN MAIN THING WAS FIRE TRUCKS AND ESU VEHICLES CAUSE THEY WASRIGHT UNDER THE
PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE ACTUALLY WEWAS RIGHT UNDER THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE WHEN THE SECOND PLANE HIT WE WAS RIGHT UNDER IT CAUSE THEY TOLD US TO JUST SET UP TRIAGE SO WE HAD ALL OF OUR EQUIPMENT RIGHT THERE AND WEWALKED DOWN DUNNO GUESS THEY WAS TRYING TO FEEL THE VIBE ORJUST TRYING TO SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON THEY WAS TRYING TO GET BETTER VIEW OF WHAT WAS GOING ON IT WAS ME AND MY PARTNER BEING NOSEY BUT WEWALKED DOWN TOGETHER THOUGH AFTER THAT NEVER SEEN SO MANY PEOPLE TAKE OFF RUNNING WHEN THE SECOND PLANE HIT EVERYBODY RUNNING RAN IN THE BUILDING RAN OUT THE BUILDING RAN INTO ANOTHER
BUILDING IT WAS LATE IN THE DAY WHEN CAME DOWN IT WAS LIKE 300 OR 400 WHEN CAME DOWN STILL SEEN LOT OF PEOPLE LEAVE WHEN WEWAS AT STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL WE STILL SEEN PEOPLE RUNNING FROM THE SMOKE ALL THE WAY AT CHAMBERS STREET AND THAT WAS FAR AWAY THATS BASICALLY IT THAT REMEMBER ABOUT THE DAY BASICALLY IT
ALRIGHT THANK YOU THE TIME IS NOW1646 INTERVIEW IS CONCLUDED
17

FILE NO 9110042
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW JACE PINKUS
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 11 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY MAUREEN MCCORMICK

MS RUM TODAYS DATE UCTOBER 11 2001 THE TIME NOW IS 837 HOURS AND THIS IS LIEUTENANT
PAT ROM THE FIRE DEPARTMENT CITY OF NEW YORK IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE
FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME RANK AND TITLE
CAPTAIN JACE PINKUS
AND YOUR ASSIGNED COMMAND AREA THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY
DISPATCH
IS
METROTECH COMMUNICATIONS EMERGENCY MEDICAL
WERE HERE TO DISCUSS THE
MS ROM ALSO PRESENT FOR THE INTERVIEW
OKAY
MS MAGGI DIANA MAGGI EMT INVESTIGATIONS AND TRIALS
OKAY WERE HERE TO DISCUSS REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001
IF YOU COULD DESCRIBE TO US WHERE HOW YOU FIRST BECAME INVOLVED AND ANY DETAILS OF WHAT
TRANSPIRED FOR THAT DAY
EARLY TUESDAY MORNING WAS ON THE 7TH FLOOR
IN MY CUBICLE AND THERE WERE INDIVIDUALS STATING THAT PLANE HAD JUST CRASHED INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER

JACE PINKUS
WITHIN FEW MOMERIT IT WA CONFIRMED THAT THERE WA PLANE IN ONE OF THE TOWERS
AT THAT POINT COMMISSIONER GREGORY DIRECTED MYSELF EMT SAM HARRIS AND CAPTAIN DAMATO TO JOIN HIM
AND WE WERE GOING TO RESPOND TO THE SCENE AT THAT POINT WE LEFT THE 7TH FLOOR RECEIVED OUR EQUIPMENT
AND PROCEEDED OVER THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE WHAT VEHICLE WERE YOU USING
COMMISSIONER GREGORYS SAM HARRIS WAS DRIVING AND WE RESPONDED INTO MANHATTAN USING THE BRIDGE
BROOKLYN BRIDGE MANHATTAN BRIDGE
BROOKLYN BRIDGE
WERE YOU RESPONDING TO ANY SPECIFIC LOCATION
AT THAT POINT
AS WE WERE DRIVING OVER THE BRIDGE WE IT
WAS CONFIRMED THAT THERE WAS FIRE IN THE NORTH
TOWER WE CONTINUED INTO MANHATTAN AND WE GOT OFF AT PARK ROW MADE LEFT HAND TURN ONTO CHAMBERS AND MADE
LEFT ONTO WEST STREET AND PARKED ON THE CORNER OF VESEY AND WEST STREET ON THE CORNER OF GUESS THAT WOULD BE THE EAST SIDE
PARKED ON VESEY OR ON WEST RIGHT ON THE CORNER OF VESEY

JACE PINKUS
SO YOU PARKED ON VE
CORRECT
WE ATTEMPTED TO GET OUR STUFF OUT OF THE
VEHICLE AND AS WE LOOKED UP WE SAW PLANE HIT THE SECOND BUILDING AND WE NOTICED THAT THERE WAS LARGE
BALL OF FLAME COMING FROM THE SECOND BUILDING IT WAS AT THIS POINT THAT COMMISSIONER GREGORY DIRECTED EMT
HARRIS TO MOVE THE VEHICLE BECAUSE THERE WAS DEBRIS FIRE BASICALLY COVERING US ON VESEY STREET
EMT HARRIS MOVED THE VEHICLE BELIEVE TO THE WEST SIDE OF VESEY AND PROCEEDED ALONG WITH COMMISSIONER GREGORY AND CAPTAIN DAMATO ONTO WEST STREET AND WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF WEST STREET IN FRONT OF THE AMERICAN
EXPRESS BUILDING
AT THAT POINT MET UP WITH LIEUTENANT
DAVILA THERE WERE COUPLE OF UNITS ON THE CORNER OF ACTUALLY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET ON VESEY AND WEST WITHIN MOMENTS
TWO OR THREE WOULD YOU IMAGINE
SAW AT LEAST THREE OR FOUR AND THEN THERE
WAS LOT OF CHAOS ON WEST
CORRECT
THERES MEDIAN ON WEST STREET WEST SIDE

JACE PINKUS
HIGHWAY THAT WOULD BE NORTH OF THE PEDE BRIDGE AND AT THAT POINT WE NOTICED VEHICLES STARTED TO COME IN NUMEROUS DIRECTIONS
WITHIN MOMENTS SAW CHIEF GANCI
COMMISSIONER GREGORY PROCEEDED ON WEST SOUTH COMMISSIONER
GREGORY AND CAPTAIN DAMATO YOU WENT WHICH WAY
SOUTH ON WEST STREET SAW CHIEF NIGRO WITHIN COUPLE OF MORE MINUTES LIEUTENANT HOWIE HAHN
ARRIVED DR ASCEDA DR CHERSON AND THEN THERE WAS ANOTHER DOCTOR FORGET HIS NAME
MALE FEMALE
MALE DOCTOR THINK HES ONE OF THE
WHERE DID YOU SEE CHIEF NIGRO AND
BOTH OF THEM WERE WALKING SOUTH ON WEST WE WAS FEW FEET SOUTH ON WEST
BOTH OF THEM MEANING WHO
CHIEF GANCI AND CHIEF
AT THAT POINT AGAIN MUST HAVE BEEN
ANOTHER
CONTACT WITH AT THIS POINT WE ATTEMPTED AS UNITS
WERE COMING INTO THE SCENE AND BELIEVE THEY HAD
FELLOWS
WERE
NIGRO
FEW MORE MOMENTS CHIEF GOLDFARB WAS IN

JACE PINKUS
STARTED TO ET UP A1 THERE WA LIEUTENANT BRAD MANN LIEUTENANT JOHN NEVINS THE TWO OF THEM ENDED UP IN
THE INTERSECTION OF VESEY AND WEST AND FOR BETTER TERMS THEY ASSUMED SORT OF STAGING OFFICER
THE TWO OF THEM
CORRECT
THERE WERE COUPLE OF HATZOLAH AMBULANCES
COMING INTO THE SCENE ONE TWO THREE
ID SAY AT LEAST TWO AND THERE WAS LARGE AMOUNT OF VEHICLE MOVEMENT NORTH ON WEST STREET AS
VEHICLES WERE COMING TO IDENTIFY THEM COULDNT AT THAT POINT
AS UNITS WERE PARKING THEIR VEHICLES
BELIEVE ALONG VESEY ALONG WEST THEY WERE DIRECTED
BY MAKING ASSUMPTION THAT LIEUTENANT MANN AND LIEUTENANT NEVINS WERE SENDING VEHICLES PARKING ALONG VESEY PARKING THEM ALONG WEST AND UNITS STARTED TO WALK UP WITH THEIR STRETCHERS AND EQUIPMENT
WITHIN FEW MINUTES HAD CONVERSATION WITH CHIEF GOLDFARB THAT IF NEEDED WE WOULD BE GOING
TO WE IDENTIFIED AMERICAN EXPRESS TO BE AN AREA OF TRIAGE TIME FRAME MAYBE TEN MINUTES FIFTEEN MINUTES FROM THE TIME ARRIVED

JACE PINKUS
THAT YOU TALKED TO CHIEF GOLDFARB
CORRECT HAD CONVERSATION WITH THE ONE DOCTOR HAD MENTIONED EARLIER HE HAD ASKED ME SHOULD HE GET THE ANTIDOTE KIT SAID TO HIM YES
BELIEVE HE LEFT TO GO TO DR ASCEDAS CAR TO GET IT IT MUST HAVE BEEN ABOUT ANOTHER FEW MORE
MINUTES WENT BY AND WE STARTED TO MOVE THE UNITS WITH THEIR STRETCHERS ALONG GUESS IT WOULD BE IN FRONT OF AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING WHICH IS THREE WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER AND AGAIN WITHIN PERIOD OF TIME
THE WOULD SAY MAYBE ABOUT 30 UNITS MIGHT HAVE
BEEN TWO OR THREE PER STRETCHER BUT MUNICIPAL VOLUNTARY AND VOLUNTEERS
WE NOTICED AS WE WERE STANDING IN THE
STREET WE LOOKED UP WE DID NOTICE THAT THERE WERE
PEOPLE JUMPING FROM THE BUILDINGS PERSONALLY SAW ABOUT 20 THERE WAS LOT OF CHAOS GOING ON ALONG THE
THE MCC WHICH IS THE CENTER FOR COMMUNICATIONS ARRIVED
LOCAL COMMAND
IT WAS TRAVELING SOUTH ON WEST BELIEVE THERE WAS PDTHV ALSO
BUILDING
THAT CAME
WHAT IS THAT
THE POLICE TEMPORARY HEADQUARTERS VEHICLE BELIEVE THERE WAS ANOTHER THREE OR FOUR

JACE PINKUS
FIRE DEPARTMENT APPARATU AGAIN TRAVELING OUTTII ON WEST
SO THE MCC AND THE PD TEMP WERE ALL
TRAVELING SOUTH ON WEST IS THAT MY UNDERSTANDING CORRECT
AND FIRE
CORRECT
APPARATUS
APPROXIMATELY
BELIEVE SAW AT LEAST TWO
COULD YOU IDENTIFY THEM IN ANY WAY NO
ENGINE LADDER OR ANYTHING
NO WOULD SAY ONE WAS LADDER
SO AT THIS POINT IT WAS ALL THE CHAOS AND THE DEBRIS FALLING IN FRONT OF THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING ALL ON WEST
WE MOVED CLOSER TO THE BUILDING IT WAS AT THAT POINT THAT THE DECISION WAS MADE BETWEEN MYSELF AND ALONG WITH CHIEF GOLDFARB THAT IF THINGS WENT SOUR THAT THE UNITS WERE TO TAKE COVER INTO THE BUILDING
AND STARTED TO WALK ALONG THE LINE ALONG WITH HOWIE HAHN LIEUTENANT HAHN
WE TOOK ROLL CALL WRITING DOWN UNITS AS THEY ARRIVED WOULD SAY THERE WAS ABOUT 30 AT ONE

JACE PINKUS
POINT GIVE OR TAKE MIGHT HAVE BEEN UORE THE TASK
WAS GIVEN TO HIM TO SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFY WHAT UNITS WERE THERE
LIEUTENANT HAHN CORRECT
IDENTIFIED PARAMEDIC UNIT AND BLS UNIT CALLED IT FAST UNIT THAT IF WE NEEDED THEY WOULD BE THE FIRST TO GO AND KEPT THEM RIGHT IN
FRONT OF THE BUILDING GUESS THAT WOULD BE GOING NORTH ON WEST BUT NOT REALLY ON WEST BUT MORE ON THE SIDE STREET OF THE AMERICAN
EXPRESS BUILDING
WE STARTED TO LINE THE UNITS UP ALONG THE
BUILDING AND AT ONE POINT THE LINE WENT WEST ON VESEY THE UNITS THAT WERE LINED UP WITH THEIR STRETCHERS
AGAIN MAYBE 10 15 MINUTES GOES BY GAVE DIRECTIONS THAT IF THINGS WERE TO GO SOUR THAT THEY
WERE TO TAKE COVER IT WAS AT THAT POINT WHEN
PERSONALLY HEARD LOUD RUMBLING NOISE THOUGHT IT WAS ANOTHER PLANE HITTING THE TOWER AND THATS WHEN
THE ENTIRE STREET FILLED WITH SMOKE DEBRIS BECAME TOTALLY BLACK AND WE RAN INTO THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING
AT SOME POINT HAD BEEN TOLD THAT ONE OF THE MEDICS WAS MISSING FOUND OUT LATER THAT IT WAS

JACE PINKUS
CAR1O LILLO THAT WA MI AW III PARTNER ABRIEU THATSABRI EU
THEN THERE WAS OTHER SCUFFLE THAT THERE WERE OTHER PEOPLE MISSING UNABLE TO CONFIRM IT WAS CHIEF PERUGGIA THAT WE HEARD WAS MISSING CHIEF MCCRACKEN IT WAS REPORTED THAT HE WAS MISSING
THIS IS WHEN WE BELIEVED THAT IT WAS
SECOND LIKE SAID IT WAS THE FIRST BUILDING THAT COLLAPSED WE RAN INTO THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING
WE TOOK COVER WE STARTED TO BREAK MYSELF COUPLE OF CUSTODIANS WITHIN THE BUILDING STARTED TO BREAK WINDOWS
COUPLE OF MINUTES GOES BY CHIEF
CHIEF GOLDFARB AND BELIEVE THERE WAS
CARRASQUILLO
ANOTHER CHIEF DONT RECALL WHO IT WAS
THINGS JUST BECAME HAVOC INSIDE THE BUILDING PEOPLE RUNNING ALL
OVER THE PLACE ALL UNITS THAT PRETTY MUCH THAT WERE
ALL LINED UP EVERYBODY JUST RAN IN BETWEEN PATIENT CARE AND JUST DONT WANT TO USE THE WORD
PANICKING BUT LIKE SAID REALLY GOT NASTY AT THAT POINT
WE WENT WEST OF THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING MAYBE TWO EXITS THERE WAS AN EXIT ONTO
VESEY AND THEN WAS CORRIDOR WHICH LEFT OUT THE BACK
10

JACE PINKUS
ARID ACCORDING TO THE MAP THAT WOULD BE THE MERRILL LYNCH BUILDING
WE ATTEMPTED TO RECOUP GETTING THINGS TOGETHER WE SET UP LITTLE TRIAGE AREA IN THE REAR
OF THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING THERE WERE OTHER
PEOPLE WALKING AROUND SAYING THEIR PARTNERS WERE MISSING DIRECTIONS WERE GIVEN TO LIEUTENANT HAHN BY
MYSELF TO TRY TO THERE WAS COUPLE OF PARAMEDICS THERE WAS PARAMEDIC SMILEY HAD CONTACT WITH AND AS
SAW PEOPLE ATTEMPTED TO FIND OUT IF THEY KNEW WHERE THEIR PARTNERS WERE AND THAT WAS COMBINATION OF
IM SORRY WERE YOU GOING TO SAY SOMETHING
WE SET UP LITTLE SMALL
AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING WITHIN COULDNT EVEN STAY IN THE BUILDING
BROKEN
RAN OUT THE WEST SIDE ONTO VESEY HEARD
PEOPLE SCREAMING THAT THERE WAS MAYDAY WE HEARD LOT OF SCREAMING LOT OF YELLING THE ENTIRE STREET
WAS LIKE THE MIDDLE OF WINTER NOTICED PEOPLE RUNNING TO THEIR AMBULANCES WITH THEIR EQUIPMENT
NOTICED AT LEAST TWO FIREFIGHTERS HAD DUCKED UNDERNEATH THE FIRE APPARATUS THERE WAS AT
WE COULDNT BREATHE THATS THE REASON WHY THE WINDOWS WERE BEING
TRIAGE AREA WITHIN FEW MINUTES WE
11

JACE PINKUS
1EA FIVE OR SIX BELIEVE THERE EA TWO ENGINE COMPANIES THAT WERE ON VESEY AND THERE WAS SOME FIREFIGHTERS DUCKING ON VESEY
CAN YOU IDENTIFY THEM
BY NUMBER BELIEVE IT WAS AN ENGINE AND ALSO NOTICED THAT THERE WAS SUBURBAN CHIEFS
VEHICLE
THE AMBULANCES WERE PARKED DIAGONALLY OR THEY WERE BACKED STRAIGHT IN TO VESEY THE ENTIRE STREET
WAS JUST FULL OF SMOKE AND DEBRIS AND YOU REALLY COULDNT SEE IN FRONT OF YOU
AGAIN RAN BACK IN TRYING TO FIND OUT WHERE ALL MY PEOPLE WERE THAT WAS ONE OF MY MAIN
OBJECTIVES
AND AT THAT POINT WHO WAS WITH YOU AT THAT
TIME
LIEUTENANT HAHN PARAMEDIC SMILEY COUPLE OF PARAMEDICS FROM METRO CARE OTHERS COULDNT IDENTIFY AT ONE POINT THERE MUST HAVE BEEN ABOUT 20 INDIVIDUALS START TO REGROUP
INITIALLY THE INITIAL ALS AND BLS YOU HAD LEAD DO YOU KNOW WHO THEY WERE
BY NAME NO BY UNIT NO COULDNT IDENTIFY THEM
12

JACE PINKUS
UKAY ARID CHIEF NIGRO ARID CHIEF GARICI HAD SEEN THEM FOR FEW MINUTES FEW
MINUTES AT THE BEGINNING HADNT SEEN THEM SINCE OKAY THAT WAS THAT FIRST TIME YOU SAW THEM
WALKING TOWARDS
CHIEF GANCI ASKED ME SOMETHING REGARDING
HE SAIDCAPTAIN DONT RECALL EXACTLY WHAT HE
SAID BUT IT WAS MOMENT NOT LONG LIKE SAID THEY ALL WENT SOUTH ONTO WEST
BELIEVE CHIEF MARTIN AT ONE POINT MIGHT EVEN HAVE EVEN SHOWED UP IN THE BUILDING IN THE
AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING THEY HAD ALSO SET UP REFRESHMENTS AND WATER IN THE BUILDING AS PEOPLE WERE
RUNNING AROUND PEOPLE RUNNING IN GRABBING THE WATER AND RUNNING OUT SO COULDNT EVEN IDENTIFY WHO THEY
WERE THEY WERE RUNNING
LIKE SAID THERE WAS MAYDAY CALLED YOU
REALLY COULDNT SEE TOO MUCH IN FRONT OF YOU WHILE WE WERE ON VESEY STREET AT SOME POINT STARTED TO RUN
INTO THE BACK OF THE BUILDING BECAUSE WAS LOOKING FOR SOMEBODY AND THEN HEARD ANOTHER NOISE AND THAT IS WHEN TOOK COVER WAS BY MYSELF LAYING ON THE GROUND COVERED MY HEAD DID LOT OF PRAYING
AFTER FELT IT WAS SAFE GOT BACK UP
13

JACE PINKUS
AGAIN AGAIN WE TRIED TO ET UP ANOTHER TRIAGE AREA BUT IT JUST DIDNT THERE WAS SUCH HAVOC GOING ON
THAT THERE WAS NO CONTROL PEOPLE WERE JUST RUNNING CIVILIANS AND EMERGENCY WORKERS ET CETERA WENT OVER TO FIREMAN COULD NOT IDENTIFY AND GAVE HIM SOME WATER
BACK ON VESEY AND AT SOME POINT WALKED DOWN BELIEVE THIS IS NORTH END AVENUE TO THE FRONT
OF THE EMBASSY HOTEL WHICH WOULD BE ON NORTH END BETWEEN VESEY AND MURRAY NOTICED THAT THE MERV WAS
IN FRONT OF IT COUPLE OF POLICE VEHICLES EMERGENCY SERVICE VEHICLES WAS TALKING TO ONE OF THE COPS
TRYING TO GET ANOTHER MASK INSIDE THE BACKTRACK LITTLE BIT CHIEF GOMBO HAD SEEN EARLIER
WAS THAT THE ONE TIME YOU SAW HIM
YEAH NO BUT SAW HIM LATER ON WHEN GOT BACK TO THE HOTEL THATS WHAT MADE ME RECALL SEEING HIM AND LIEUTENANT TERRANOVA
ALSO ATTEMPTED TO CALL THE CENTER FEW TIMES THE COMMUNICATIONS CENTER VIA CELL PHONE
COUPLE OF TIMES WAS ABLE TO GET THROUGH COUPLE OF TIMES COULDNT GET THROUGH
ENDED UP IN THE EMBASSY HOTEL THERE WAS CHIEF GOLDFARB LIEUTENANT TERRANOVA CHIEF GOMBO
14

JACE PINKUS
CHIEF PA CHIEF CARRA CHIEF BA AW
CAPTAIN SICKLES LIEUTENANT YIORAS
NOTICED THAT HE STARTED TO NOT FEEL WELL SO WENT
OVER TO HIM MYSELF AND EMT HARRIS TOOK OFF HIS COAT LOOKED LIKE HE WAS EXHAUSTED WE SAT HIM DOWN
WITHIN SOMETIME AFTER THAT WE WERE GIVEN DIRECTIONS TO GO ALONG WITH CHIEF MYSELF EMT
HARRIS AND CHIEF PASCAL WERE GIVEN DIRECTIONS THAT WE WERE GOING TO CHELSEA PIERS
PRIOR TO THAT WALKED DOWN VESEY AGAIN AND BELIEVE AT THAT TIME THE SECOND BUILDING COLLAPSED
BECAUSE AGAIN THE ENTIRE STREET FILLED UP WITH SMOKE AND DEBRIS AND AGAIN WE COULDNT SEE IN FRONT OF US
WHAT WAS GOING ON HEARD LOT OF ALARMS GOING OFF WE DIDNT KNOW FOR SURE IF IT WAS THE BUILDING AND WE HEARD PASS ALARM WHICH IS PART OF THE SELF CONTAINED BREATHING APPARATUS HEARD THAT FROM SOMEBODY PEOPLE JUST RUNNING UP AND DOWN VESEY STREET
AT THAT POINT MYSELF CHIEF PASCAL AND EMT HARRIS WALKED DOWN NORTH END AVENUE THAT WOULD BE NORTH WE CONTINUED WALKING DOWN NORTH END WE SAW LIEUTENANT DONT RECALL WHO IT WAS BUT THERE WAS
TRAILER BELIEVE IT WAS ON PARK PLACE WE CONTINUED WALKING DOWN TO CHAMBERS STREET AND AT THAT
15

JACE PINKUS
POINT WE MET UP WITH AGAIN ANOTHER LIEUTENANT
DONT RECALL WHO IT WAS MYSELF EMT HARRIS AND CHIEF
PASCAL GOT INTO THE REAR OF VEHICLE AN AMBULANCE WE ENDED UP ON WESTSIDE HIGHWAY
DO YOU KNOW WHICH AMBULANCE YOU WERE IN DONT KNOW
OR WHAT VEHICLE
IT WAS MUNICIPAL AMBULANCE BUT DONT RECALL WHO
OKAY YOURE IN THE BACK OF THE AMBULANCE BACK OF THE AMBULANCE THERE WAS NO
IN THE BACK OF THE AMBULANCE AND AS WE
EQUIPMENT
HEADED TO CHELSEA PIERS WE WERE FLAGGED DOWN ON MAYBE
6TH STREET AND WESTSIDE HIGHWAY THERE WAS
PEDESTRIAN
STRUCK
THE THREE OF US GOT OUT OF THE VEHICLE
PROVIDED SOME PATIENT CARE TURNED OUT TO BE THE PATIENT WAS NOT PEDESTRIAN STRUCK BUT WAS ON THE
80TH FLOOR OF THE FIRST BUILDING SPOKE TO HIM TALKED TO HIM TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON COMFORT
HIM PUT HIM IN THE BACK OF THE AMBULANCE WE STRAPPED HIM IN THE CAPTAINS CHAIR
THE FIRST VEHICLE THAT WE WERE IN AND CHIEF PASCAL FLAGGED DOWN ANOTHER AMBULANCE TURNED OUT TO
16

JACE PINKUS
BE GUE IT WA 1OGLITIC UTRILT ANOTHER
AMBULANCE FULL OF LONG BOARDS THAT WAS IT THERE WAS AN ANTIDOTE KIT LAYING ON THE FLOOR IN THE BACK
MYSELF EMT HARRIS GOT INTO THE REAR OF THE VEHICLE
CHIEF PASCAL GOT INTO THE PASSENGER SIDE OF THE CAB
AND WE CONTINUED NORTH ON WESTSIDE HIGHWAY UNTIL WE GOT TO CHELSEA PIERS AND AT THAT POINT WE MET UP WITH
CHIEF KOWALZYK AND THE DIRECTIONS THAT WERE GIVEN TO ME ME AND KEVIN MAHON WAS UP THERE ALSO
WE ATTEMPTED TO IDENTIFY WHAT UNITS WERE THERE AND WALKED FROM GUESS THAT WOULD BE 11TH
STREET UP TO SAY MAYBE 24TH STREET WHERE MET UP WITH LIEUTENANT BEARMAN
OUR OBJECTIVE WAS TO MOVE THE AMBULANCES SOUTH TO SORT OF ORGANIZE THE NUMBER OF AMBULANCES THAT HAD TO BE AT LEAST 60 IF NOT MORE AMBULANCES
THAT WERE ALL THE WAY UP THE WESTSIDE HIGHWAY
OKAY SO YOU PLACED THE SECOND BUILDING COLLAPSING AT WHAT STAGE
BUILDING FRAME
MINUTES
WOULD SAY AT THE POINT RAN OUT OF THE OUT OF THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING TIME
COULDNT TELL YOU WOULD SAY MAYBE 20 HALF AN HOUR
AFTER YOU ARRIVED
17

JACE PINKUS
AFTER ARRIVED AT 1EA IF RIOT LUCRE
TIME FRAME ITSELF SPECIFIC TIME FRAME COULDNT TELL
YOU BUT WOULD SAY IT WAS AT THE POINT HAD SEEN CHIEF MARTIN
AT THAT POINT IF WE COULD REFERENCE IT WHEN WE WERE GOING TO CHELSEA PIERS WAS HOW LONG BEFORE
THAT
CANT TELL YOU KNOW WAS ON THE AMERICAN EXPRESS FOR SOMETIME IT WAS DEFINITELY SOME
TIME THAT HAD BEEN THERE THERE WAS LOT OF
ACTIVITY GOING ON IN THE BUILDING AND ALONG VESEY THERE WERE SOME OTHER INDIVIDUALS DR RICHMOND
BELIEVE SAW ALSO
WHERE WOULD YOU HAVE SEEN DR RICHMOND
WELL KNOW FOR SURE SAW HIM LATER ON IN THE EVENING BUT BELIEVE SAW HIM YOU KNOW STAND
CORRECTED EVENING
SAW HIM LATER ON IN THE DAY LATER IN THE
WE ARE REALLY FOCUSING ON UP UNTIL THE SECOND WORLD TRADE CENTER COLLAPSE WHAT EVENTS TRANSPIRED DURING THAT TIME FRAME
AT ANY TIME WERE YOU EVER IN THOSE BUILDINGS
WHICH BUILDINGS
IN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
18

JACE PINKUS
NO
YOUR OVERALL IMPRESSION OF WHAT WAS GOING ON
HOW
EXPERIENCED
CHANGED MULTIPLE TIMES WHEN WE FIRST GOT THERE WE JUST THOUGHT WE HAD REALLY BAD FIRE YOU KNOW THE FIRST BUILDING AND AS WE GOT OUT OF THE CAR WE SAW THE SECOND ONE AND IT TURNED OUT TO YOU KNOW WE FIRST THOUGHT THAT WE WERE GOING TO BE WAITING FOR PATIENTS
TO COME TO YOU AND THAT POINT WHEN THE FIRST BUILDING COLLAPSED IT ALL CHANGED
IT WAS SOMETHING THAT DEFINITELY NEVER BEFORE KNOW HAD AN OBJECTIVE IT
MY MAIN OBJECTIVE WAS TO KNOW WHERE MY PEOPLE WERE AT BUT AT ONE POINT GOT SCARED THAT HAD LOST
MORE THAN YOU KNOW WAS LUCKY HOW EVERYTHING TURNED OUT EXCEPT FOR ONE YOU KNOW AT ONE POINT THINK HAD TWO OR THREE PEOPLE THERE HAD 60 TO 70
PEOPLE SO THAT WAS MY FIRST OBJECTIVE WAS TO PATIENTS WHO WERE GOING TO COME TO ME OR MY RESOURCES WERE
GOING TO GO TO THE PATIENTS DEFINITE EXPERIENCE THAT
IT ALL CHANGED IT WAS
EVEN TO THIS DAY
KNOW STILL TALK ABOUT IT WAS SCARY ESPECIALLY WHEN
THE BUILDING HEARD THAT NOISE THOUGHT FOR SURE THERE WAS ANOTHER BUILDING AND
YOU
19

JACE PINKUS
URI THE REPORTS OF PARAJUEDIC LILLO DID EVER SEE HIM OR THATS SOMETHING JUST TOLD TO YOU
HAVE SEEN HIM EARLIER MEAN KNOW CARLOS KNOW HIM FOR LONG TIME MIGHT HAVE SEEN
HIM EARLIER BUT DEFINITELY DO RECALL SEEING HIS
PARTNER SAYING THAT HE WAS MISSING
AND YOU SAW HIS PARTNER AT WHAT POINT
IT WAS IN THE FIRST 20 MINUTES MAYBE HAD
SEEN HIM
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WOULD LIKE TO INCLUDE AS PART OF THIS INTERVIEW
THERE WAS LOT OF TALK GOING ON BECAUSE THERE WAS THERE WAS PERIOD OF TIME AT THE
BEGINNING BEFORE ANY REAL ACTIVITY WAS GOING ON WITH US
ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT WERE COMING IN THE BUILDINGS THERE WAS LOT OF COMMENTS ABOUT THAT
MS ROM OKAY ALL RIGHT WE WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR YOU KNOW BEING PART OF THIS INTERVIEW WITH US AND IM GOING TO SAY THAT THIS CONCLUDES OUR INTERVIEW ITS NOW 903 HOURS AND THIS CONCLUDES OUR INTERVIEW
MIGHT
20
YOU

FILE NO 9110043
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMS CAPTAIN FRANK DAMATO
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 11 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

DAMATO
MR FELLER TODAYS DATE UCTOBER 11
2001 THE TIME NOW IS 829 HOURS THIS IS LIEUTENANT MONTE FEILER OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME RANK AND COMMAND
FRANK DAMATO EMS CAPTAIN BUREAU OF COMMUNICATIONS
MR FELLER OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK WE ARE CONDUCTING THIS
INTERVIEW IN THE INVESTIGATIONS AND TRIALS HEARING ROOM FOURTH FLOOR AT METROTECH NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT HEADQUARTERS THE INTERVIEW IS REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001 ALSO
PRESENT IS INVESTIGATOR VELEZ
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME TITLE AND COMMAND
MY NAME IS GEORGE VELEZ EMT ALSO AN
INVESTIGATOR INVESTIGATIONS
FOR THE BUREAU OF TRIALS AND
CAPTAIN DAMATO IF WE CAN JUST GET SCENARIO OF WHAT OCCURRED THAT MORNING OF SEPTEMBER
11
WELL STARTED MY MORNING HERE AT HEADQUARTERS ON THE 7TH FLOOR COMMUNICATIONS IM

DAMATO
GOING TO AY DONT KNOW ABOUT THE FIRST PLANE LILT
BUT AFTER THE FIRST PLANE HIT IM GUESSING 830 QUARTER TO NINE WE SAW LOT OF THE CITYWIDE TOUR COMMANDERS AND THEIR AIDES RUNNING PAST MY DESK
ASKED THEM WHATS GOING ON THEY SAID PLANE JUST HIT THE TRADE CENTER
AT THAT TIME WE ALL WENT TO THE WINDOW AND WE SAW FLAMES COMING OUT AT THAT POINT THOUGHT
ACTUALLY IT WAS LIKE SMALL PLANE LIKE SEA PLANE OR SOMETHING HAD NO TIME TO THINK THEN WE SAW THE
MAGNITUDE OF WHAT WAS GOING ON AS FAR AS THE FLAMES AND COMMISSIONER GREGORY ASKED MYSELF CAPTAIN PINCUS AND
EMT SAM HARRIS TO GET OUR GEAR TOGETHER WE WERE GOING DOWN TO THE SCENE
WE ALL GOT INTO COMMISSIONER GREGORYS CAR WE WENT OVER THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE IM NOT REALLY SURE WHICH ROUTE WE TOOK AFTER THE BRIDGE BUT WE CAME SOUTH ON WEST STREET AND WE PULLED INTO VESEY STREET FACING OPPOSITE THE WATER GUESS THATS EAST
HAVE MAP HERE
LET ME SEE THAT WE CAME DOWN BARCLAY STREET
AND WE MADE LEFT ON TO WEST AND THEN WE MADE ANOTHER LEFT ON TO VESEY SO WE STOPPED THE CAR AT THE CORNER OF WEST AND VESEY GUESS THATS WORLD TRADE

DAMATO
CENTER
WHEN WE GOT OUT OF THE VEHICLE WE OPENED THE TRUNK WE PUT OUR HELMETS ON AND OUR JACKETS AT THAT TIME WE HEARD ANOTHER EXPLOSION WHICH THOUGHT WAS SECONDARY EXPLOSION BUT WHICH LATER FOUND IT OUT WAS
SECOND PLANE THAT HIT AT THAT POINT COMMISSIONER GREGORY INSTRUCTED SAM HARRIS TO MOVE THE CAR LITTLE
BIT AWAY FROM WHERE WE HAD PARKED IT BELIEVE HE PARKED IT ON VESEY ON THE WEST SIDE OF WEST STREET
AT THAT POINT TELL YOU DONT REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED WITH SAM HARRIS OR JACE PINCUS ALL
KNEW IS THAT ME AND COMMISSIONER
SOUTH ON WEST STREET CROSSING IN FRONT OF WORLD TRADE CENTER MAKING OUR WAY TO THE CORNER OF WEST AND
LIBERTY THERE IS BARRIER THAT SEPARATES THE TWO SIDES OF WEST STREET WE WERE ON THE SIDE CLOSER TO THE TWIN TOWERS AND WHILE WE WERE WALKING WE WERE GETTING HIT WITH SMALL FRAGMENTS OF GLASS WE OBSERVED TWO BODIES ON THE FLOOR PARTIAL BODIES IM GUESSING THEY WERE JUMPERS
AS WE MADE OUR WAY DOWN WEST STREET TO LIBERTY THERE WAS MORE AND MORE DEBRIS FALLING AT THAT POINT TOLD COMMISSIONER GREGORY THINK WE SHOULD JUMP OVER THE BARRIER AND WALK ON THE OPPOSITE
GREGORY PROCEEDED

DAMATO
SIDE OF WEST BECAU WE WERE GETTING IN TOO C1O
WAS GETTING REALLY NERVOUS
ONCE WE GOT TO THE CORNER OF WEST AND
LIBERTY WE MET UP WITH CHIEF BARBARA CHIEF BARBARA THEY WERE SETTING UP COMMAND POST AT THE CORNER
WAS THERE FOR ABOUT 10 MINUTES OR SO AND WHAT NOTICED IS WE WERE GETTING LOT OF AMBULANCES STARTING TO PILE UP ON LIBERTY STREET BETWEEN WEST AND SOUTH END AVENUE
BELIEVE THAT IS THERE WAS NO SUPERVISION THERE SO TOLD COMMISSIONER GREGORY WAS GOING TO START
ORGANIZING THE VEHICLES THAT GOT THERE THERE HAD TO BE ALMOST ABOUT DOZEN AT THE TIME
START SETTING STAGING UP FOR SOME AMBULANCES ON THE CORNER OF SOUTH END AND LIBERTY
STREET AFTER ABOUT 15 MINUTES CHIEF
KOWALCZYK PULLED
UP AND HE WHISPERED TO ME TO JUST THINK TERRORISM
ACTUALLY HE SAID YOU KNOW BE ALERT JUST THINK
TERRORISM THEN THINK HE MIGHT HAVE MADE HIS WAY OVER TO THE COMMAND POST SO AGAIN START SETTING UP THE VEHICLES SET UP LITTLE TRIAGE AREA RIGHT AT THE CORNER OF LIBERTY AND SOUTH END
AFTER ABOUT MINUTES AFTER THAT CHIEF MCCRACKEN AND CHIEF GRANT CAME TO THE LOCATION WHERE WAS THEY TOOK CONTROL OF THE SCENE CHIEF GRANT AND

DAMATO
CHIEF MCCRACKEN INI
SOUTH END OFF OF LIBERTY SO THAT WE WERE ONE BLOCK
WEST PARALLEL WITH THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY AND WE SET UP STAGING THERE THEY FELT IT WAS MORE SAFER
PATIENTS
QUIET WAS SURPRISED THAT WE WERENT SEEING ANYBODY FUNNELING OUT OF THE BUILDINGS BUT LEARNED LATER ON
THE TAGINIG TO LINE UP ON
WE WERE SETTING UP WE WEREN SEEING MANY AT THIS TIME THE WHOLE AREA WAS KIND OF
LOT OF PEOPLE WERE FUNNELING OUT LIKE ON CHURCH STREET AND WEST BROADWAY BECAUSE THERE WASNT MANY
PEOPLE COMING OUT AT ALL ON THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY FROM THE DIFFERENT TOWERS
WHATEVER TIME IT WAS WHEN THAT FIRST BUILDING STARTED TO COME DOWN ALL WE HEARD WAS JUST LIKE LOUD THUNDER THAT DIDNT STOP WHEN YOU LOOKED UP YOU SAW THE DEBRIS STARTING TO FALL FROM THE TOP AND CLOUD OF SMOKE ON TOP AND IT WAS HARD TO JUDGE WHERE THE DEBRIS WAS GOING TO FALL BECAUSE IT WERE SO HIGH
YOUR DEPTH PERSPECTIVE
EVERYBODY STARTED RUNNING EVERYBODY IN MY AREA STARTED RUNNING DOWN THE SOUTH END SOUTH LOT
OF PEOPLE RUNNING INTO LITTLE STORE FRONTS ON THAT STREET WAS AFRAID TO RUN INTO THE STORE FRONT
BECAUSE THOUGHT THAT LIKE THE BUILDING WAS GOING TO

BANGING INTO THINGS IN FRONT OF ME SEE INCHES IN FRONT OF MY FACE
MYSELF THIS IS HOW IM GOING TO DIE
AGAIN COULDNT
DAMATO
COLLAJME LIKE DOJUIRIC ARID DIDRI WANT
CRUSHED UNDERNEATH THE COLLAPSE THINKING ABOUT IT
NOW DONT THINK WAS GOING TO OUTRUN 110 STORY BUILDING BUT PROCEEDED DOWN SOUTH END AND MADE
RIGHT TURN ON ALBANY STREET AND AS TURNED ON ALBANY LOOKED OVER MY SHOULDER AND SAW THE BIG CLOUD OF DUST
THAT WAS ALREADY ON THE GROUND LIKE JUST MAKING ITS DOWN THE BLOCK JUST LIKE MOVIE
CONTINUED RUNNING DOWN ALBANY STREET AND WITHIN SECONDS WAS JUST IN TOTAL DARKNESS THE DUST
ENGULFED ME HAD TO STOP RUNNING COULDNT SEE WHERE WAS AND DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS IN FRONT OF ME
WHAT WAS AROUND ME EVERYTHING WAS VERY QUIET EVERY BREATH TOOK IN MY MOUTH WAS GETTING FILLED WITH
DEBRIS DUST PARTICLES AND CEMENT PARTICLES IT WAS TURNING INTO LIKE PASTY TEXTURE THAT YOU COULD ALMOST
CHEW KEPT SPITTING IT OUT
WAS HAVING TROUBLE BREATHING MY EYES WERE
SHUT WE DIDNT HAVE ANY BREATHING APPARATUS OR
ANYTHING WAS JUST LEANING UP AGAINST THE BUILDING THAT WAS NEXT TO AND TRIED WALKING BUT KEPT
REALLY
TO BE
SAID TO CANT BELIEVE
WAY

DAMATO
TLILI HOW IM GOING TO DIE
STARTED WALKING IM SURE FOR VERY SHORT
OF TIME MEAN SECONDS BUT IT FELT LIKE IT WAS FOREVER WAS STANDING THERE THOUGHT YOU KNOW THE
DUST IT WAS SO DARK STILL AGAIN DONT KNOW HOW LONG IT STOOD PITCH BLACK FOR BUT IT JUST SEEMED LIKE
IT WAS FOREVER AND JUST STARTED PANICKING AND
STARTED SCREAMING HELP AND HEARD SOMEBODY ANSWER ME BACK LIKE THEY STARTED SAYING KEEP COMING KEEP COMING THEIR VOICE WAS ECHOING AND COULDNT FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON
STARTED WALKING LITTLE MORE JUST BY FEEL WITH MY RIGHT HAND AGAINST THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING
GOT TO WHAT THOUGHT WAS THE CORNER OF THE BLOCK BECAUSE THE BUILDING HAD ENDED AND TURNED IN IT WAS
STEP STEPPED UP ON THE STEP AND SOME GUY GRABBED MY HAND AND WE STARTED WALKING DOWN AND WHAT IT WAS WAS
PARKING LOT ATTENDANT WHO PULLED ME INTO AN UNDERGROUND PARKING GARAGE
AT THAT POINT HE HAD HOSED ME DOWN WAS FULL OF DUST MY EYES MY HEAD MY FACE HE HOSED ME
DOWN HE PUT ME INTO CAR THAT HE HAD STARTED UP HAD
AN AIR CONDITIONER RUNNING GUESS TRYING TO JUST GET ME BACK TO SOME KIND OF SENSE MEAN WAS OUT OF IT
PERIOD

DAMATO
FOR LITTLE WHILE
AFTER ABOUT 10 MINUTES HE HAD THERE WAS
LIKE LITTLE PARKING LOT ATTENDANT OFFICE THERE WENT INTO THE OFFICE THERE WAS PHONE THERE
COULDNT REMEMBER THE NUMBER TO THE DISPATCHER WAS JUST SO OUT OF IT MY BROTHER HAPPENS TO WORK AT
METROTECH WHERE HE DISPATCHES FOR BEAR STEARNS SO HAD CALLED MY BROTHER AND TOLD HIM WHERE WAS
KNEW WHERE WAS BECAUSE THERE WAS LITTLE RECEIPT TICKET WITH THE PHONE NUMBER AND SAID GO DOWNSTAIRS TO THE DISPATCHER JUST TELL THEM WHERE AM BECAUSE
AT THIS POINT REALLY THOUGHT UNDERNEATH THIS GARAGE BECAUSE
BUILDING JUST PANCAKED DOWN OVER THE PLACE
TOLD HIM WHERE NUMBER AFTER ABOUT ANOTHER
JUST CATCHING MY BREATH WENT OUT BACK DOOR OF THE
PARKING GARAGE IT LIKE TANNISH DUST
WAS VISIBLE OUTSIDE
IT WAS ALMOST
COVERED WITH
LOOKED LIKE
COVERED IT
WAS JUST ALL OVER THERE
THAT WAS LIKE TRAPPED DIDNT KNOW THAT THE
THOUGHT IT WAS JUST ALL
WAS GAVE HIM THE PHONE MINUTES OF SITTING DOWN
WAS DUST OR INCHES DEEP IT REALLY WAR ZONE PEOPLE WERE JUST TOTALLY
COATING
EVERYTHING
JUST
LOOKED ALMOST LIKE SAWDUST IT WAS JUST

DAMATO
FIRILIUIED WALKING ALBANY ARID NOW WA ON LIKE LITTLE PIER ALONG THE WATER DONT KNOW EVEN KNOW WHAT IT WAS ESPLANADE IM LOOKING AT THIS
BUT IT WAS LITTLE PIER OR BOARDWALK THAT RUNS ALONG THE WATER ALL KEPT HEARING WAS THE FIREFIGHTERS GUESS THEIR ALARMS WHEN THEY SEPARATE FROM PEOPLE JUST GOING OFF AND THAT KEEPS STICKING IN MY HEAD
THE POLICE THAT WERE THERE EVERYBODY WAS
WALKING SOUTH THEY WERE DIRECTING EVERYBODY SOUTH WE STARTED WALKING SOUTH MUST HAVE BEEN WALKING
MAYBE ABOUT TWO MINUTES AND HEARD THE RUMBLE AGAIN AGAIN IT WAS THE SAME NOISE THAT THUNDER THAT DIDNT
STOP IT WAS THE SECOND TOWER COMING DOWN IT WAS THE
SAME SCENARIO HERE COMES BIG CLOUD OF SMOKE EVERYBODY STARTS RUNNING SOUTH ON THIS LITTLE
BOARDWALK THE PEOPLE WERENT KNOCKING EACH OTHER OVER BUT THINK THERE WERE SPOTS WHERE THERE WAS
LOT OF PEOPLE PEOPLE WERE TRIPPING AND FALLING REMEMBER SEEING LIKE PARENTS HOLDING CHILDREN IN THEIR
HAND LIKE COVERING THEIR MOUTH AND TRYING TO RUN WITH THEM ONE OR TWO PEOPLE FELL THAT WERE HELPED UP NOT
BY ME BUT BY PEOPLE NEXT TO THEM CIVILIANS POLICE OFFICERS AND THE SMOKE HIT US AGAIN
MAP
10

DAMATO
IT WA DERI THE FIRST BUTILDIRIG BUTT
IT WAS STILL VERY DIFFICULT TO BREATHE IM LOOKING THE MAP WOUND UP RUNNING INTO LITTLE LOBBY OF
AT
DONT KNOW IF IT WAS AN OFFICE BUILDING OR HIGH RISE SOMEWHERE AROUND IM GOING TO SAY RECTOR PLACE LOOKING AT THIS MAP OR MAYBE ONE MORE BLOCK SOUTH AND ONCE WAS IN THERE THEY PROVIDED US WITH BATHROOMS WE WERE RINSING OUR EYES AND RINSING OUR FACE AGAIN TOOK ABOUT 10 MINUTES TO GET YOUR COMPOSURE BACK AFTER GOING THROUGH THIS AGAIN
WHEN CAME OUT IT WAS LIKE BIG AREA IM
GOING TO SAY IT WAS MAYBE THIS RECTOR PLACE AREA THERE IS LOT OF GRASS THATS WHERE MET BACK UP WITH CHIEF MCCRACKEN AND CHIEF GRANT AT THAT POINT THERE WAS POLICE BOATS FIRE BOATS TUG BOATS WE STARTED LOADING PEOPLE ON TO THE BOAT WHO WERE CIVILIANS FROM THAT AREA ON TO THE BOATS THE BOATS
WERE TAKING PEOPLE BELIEVE TO LIBERTY ISLAND LIBERTY STATE PARK AND STATEN ISLAND
IT TOOK US ABOUT 20 MINUTES TO CLEAR THAT AREA THE PEOPLE THEY DIDNT WANT TO GET ON THE
BOATS THEY THOUGHT THOSE LOCATIONS WERENT CONVENIENT OR WHATEVER AFTER WE CLEARED THAT AREA WAS ALSO
WITH LIEUTENANT HER NAME WILL COME TO ME SHES
11

DAMATO
FROM OPERATIORI AT THE TIME AFTER WE CLEARED THE AREA
AN EMT DONT KNOW HIS NAME PULLED UP IN LIKE GOLF CART PAULINE CRONIN SHE WAS WITH US
AT THAT TIME CHIEF MCCRACKEN CHIEF GRANT LIEUTENANT CRONIN AND MYSELF WE JUMPED INTO THE GOLF CART AFTER THE AREA WAS CLEARED OF CIVILIANS WE WENT TO THE STATEN ISLAND FERRY TERMINAL THATS WHERE WE HAD TRIAGE SET UP ONCE GOT THERE WAS ACTUALLY TREATED FOR ABOUT 45 MINUTES WITH OXYGEN AND MY EYES WERE IRRIGATED THATS PRETTY MUCH WHERE STOOD UP UNTIL ABOUT 830 AT NIGHT
CHIEF MCCRACKEN AND CHIEF GRANT HAD LEFT THAT
AREA THEY HAD TO ATTEND MEETING OPERATIONS MEETING ON THE SCENE DONT KNOW WHERE THAT MEETING WAS
THEY HAD LEFT AND CHIEF VILLANI WAS THEN THERE
DONT KNOW WHAT TIME HE SHOWED UP CHIEF STEFFENS CAME
INTO THE AREA WHERE WAS KNOW CHIEF BROWN CAME THERE HE WAS TREATED AND TRANSPORTED AGAIN MOST OF THE PATIENTS WE SAW THERE WERE FIREFIGHTERS MOST OF
IT WAS JUST EYE IRRIGATION THERE WAS LOT OF EMPLOYEES FROM THE DEPARTMENT ON DUTY AND OFF DUTY AT THIS LOCATION LOT OF DOCTORS WERE COMING DOWN FROM THE SURROUNDING EMERGENCY ROOMS WE HAD AN OVERABUNDANCE OF PEOPLE
12

DAMATO
STAYED THERE UNTIL ABOUT 830 CHIEF VILLANI SENT ME DOWN TO ONE LIBERTY PLAZA ABOUT 830
TBERE WAS SOME OPERATION GOING ON OVER THERE AGAIN WE WERENT SEEING MUCH PATIENTS THEY SENT ME BACK TO BE MORE USEFUL OVER THERE WENT OVER TO ONE LIBERTY
PLAZA WAS DRIVEN THERE BY DONT KNOW SOME VEHICLE SOME PICK UP OR SUV THEY HAD BIG STAGING GOING ON TREATMENT CENTER OVER THERE THERE WERE REPORTS THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE TO BE CUTTING LIMBS OFF PEOPLE THAT WERE TRAPPED AND THEY HAD WHOLE BIG
TRIAGE CENTER THERE IM NOT SURE WHO THE SUPERVISORS WERE THERE IM NOT FAMILIAR WITH THEM BUT EVERYTHING WAS RUNNING FINE THERE
MY EYES FROM BEING RIGHT NEXT TO GROUND ZERO THE TRADE CENTERS NOW AGAIN WERE GETTING IRRITATED COULDNT SEE MY EYES WERE BURNING SO WOUND UP TRANSPORTING PATIENT WITH ANOTHER BLS UNIT TO BELLEVUE HOSPITAL AT AROUND ABOUT MIDNIGHT THIS UNIT WAS DONT KNOW IF THEY WERE MIDWOOD AMBULANCE COMPANY BECAUSE THEY WERE GOING BACK INTO BROOKLYN AFTER WE DROPPED THE PATIENT OFF THEY PROVIDED ME RIDE AFTER WE WENT TO BELLEVUE THEY PROVIDED ME RIDE TO METROTECH
BECAUSE AGAIN WENT DOWN WITH COMMISSIONER
13

YOU CAN SEE IT FROM CHIEF GANCIS CORRIDOR FROM ME
DAMATO
GREGORY TO GET THE RIDE DOWN THERE THEY DROPPED ME BACK OFF AT METROTECH GOT BACK TO METROTECH ABOUT
1230 THATS WHERE MET BACK UP WITH COMMISSIONER GREGORY AT THAT TIME HE TOLD ME THAT SAM AND HIMSELF SAM HARRIS JACE PINCUS HAD MADE THEIR WAY NORTH
BELIEVE THEY WERE IN CHELSEA THAT IS WHERE WE HAD GOT SEPARATED WHEN WENT SOUTH THEY HAD WENT NORTH
THAT WAS MY EXPERIENCE FOR THE DAY MUST HAVE WENT HOME ABOUT ONE OCLOCK THAT MORNING
JUST WANT TO RETRACE FEW THINGS AT THE
VERY BEGINNING YOU SAY WHEN YOU FIRST FOUND OUT ABOUT IT WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE THE BUILDING BURNING FROM
HEADQUARTERS HERE OR HOW DID YOU GET THAT INFORMATION THE CITYWIDE TOUR COMMANDER AIDES SAID THAT
REMEMBER HIM SAYING YOU CAN SEE IT OFFICE CHIEF GANCI IS AROUND THE
THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE GOING INTO MANHATTAN IT WAS JUST AN AMAZING SIGHT
WERE YOU DIRECTED TO ANY SPECIFIC AREA BY COMMUNICATIONS OR YOU WENT ON THE DIRECTION OF COMMISSIONER GREGORY
WENT OVER TO COMMISSIONER COULDNT SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON REALLY DIDNT SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON UNTIL WE WERE ON
GREGORYS OFFICE
14

DAMATO
WENT ON THE DIRECTION OF COURURTI
GREGORY WAS ASSUMING WE WERE GOING TO HELP OUT ANYWAY WE COULD WE DONT HAVE RADIO DESIGNATIONS
MYSELF CAPTAIN PINCUS SAM HARRIS GUESS WE WERE GOING TO BE MORE OF AN AIDE TO COMMISSIONER GREGORY
WHO IS THE COMMISSIONER LIAISON AND HELP OUT IN ANY WAY WE COULD WE WERE NOT DIRECTED IN ANYWAY BY OPERATIONS
OR HAD ANY TASK ASSIGNED TO US AT THE SCENE
WHEN YOU MET UP WITH CHIEF MCCRACKEN AND
CHIEF GRANT AFTER THEY DIRECTED YOU TO TAKE YOU HAD
ALREADY SET UP STAGING
HAD INITIALIZED STAGING TILL THERE WAS
ANOTHER OFFICER ON THE SCENE
DO YOU KNOW WHO THAT OFFICER WAS
THERE WAS NO OTHER OFFICER ON THE SCENE THATS WHY STARTED DONT KNOW HOW THOSE
AMBULANCES WERE SENT TO THAT LOCATION
RIGHT
BUT WHEN SAW THERE WAS NO SUPERVISION
TOLD COMMISSIONER GREGORY WAS GOING TO TAKE CONTROL OF WHAT WAS GOING ON HERE BECAUSE THERE WAS JUST NO DIRECTION STARTED ORGANIZING AND THEN ONCE CHIEF GRANT GOT THERE BELIEVE HE MAY HAVE GOTTEN THERE LITTLE BEFORE LIEUTENANT CRONIN AND CHIEF MCCRACKEN
15

DAMATO
HE ADVLIED ME THAT LIE EA TAKING CONTROL OF THE SCENE HE DIRECTED ME TO HAVE ALL THE AMBULANCES
MOVE LITTLE FURTHER DOWN AND ALL ON ONE SIDE OF THE STREET THIS WAY THEY HAVE EGRESS
DID THE CHIEFS REMAIN THERE WITH YOU
THE CHIEFS REMAINED THERE WITH ME SEPARATED FROM THEM WHEN WE ALL STARTED RUNNING WHEN
THE FIRST
THERE TOO
BUILDING STARTED TO COME DOWN
WAS LIEUTENANT CRONIN WAS PRESENT WITH
GOT
YOU
LIEUTENANT CRONIN WAS PRESENT THERE ALSO WHAT ABOUT THE CREWS FROM THE AMBULANCES THERE WAS LOT OF HATZOLAH AMBULANCES
HATZOLAH ALSO HAD WHAT LOOKED LIKE MERV THERE AT THIS
LOCATION THERE WERE NUMEROUS VEHICLES LONG ISLAND
COLLEGE HOSPITAL LOT OF MUNICIPAL FDNY VEHICLES HAD WRITTEN THE UNITS DOWN ON PAPER DONT KNOW
WHERE THAT PAPER IS MUST HAVE DROPPED IT WHILE WAS RUNNING DONT KNOW DONT WANT TO START
RAMBLING OFF UNITS THAT IM NOT SURE THERE WAS EVEN THE PEOPLE THERE THE FACES RECOGNIZE BUT COULDNT
PUT NAME TO THEM CANT GIVE YOU NAMES
AT ANY TIME DID YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ENTER ANY OF THE BUILDINGS
16

DAMATO
WORLD TRADE CENTER BUTI1DIRIG
YES
NO THE ONIY BUILDINGS EVER RAN INTO WAS
THE UNDERGROUND PARKING GARAGE AND THEN LATER ON DURING THE SECOND COLLAPSE WAS ABLE TO GET INTO ANOTHER LOBBY OF AGAIN DONT KNOW IF IT WAS AN OFFICE OR IF IT WAS LIKE AN APARTMENT BUILDING
DID YOU HAVE HANDY TALKY ON YOU
HAD HANDY TALKY THE UHF EMS RADIO DIDNT NEED TO MAKE ANY RADIO COMMUNICATIONS WHILE
WAS SETTING STAGING UP THERE WAS LOT OF STUFF GOING ON AGAIN CHIEF KOWALCYZK KNEW WHERE WAS DIDNT
MAKE ANY RADIO COMMUNICATIONS BECAUSE AGAIN WASNT IN CONTROL OF THAT SECTOR VERY LONG ONCE THE CHIEFS HAD GOTTEN THERE SO NO DIDNT MAKE ANY RADIO COMMUNICATIONS
OTHER THAN THE PEOPLE THAT YOU TOLD ME ABOUT
THE CHIEFS LIEUTENANT CRONIN WERE THERE ANY OTHER
EMTS FIRE OFFICERS ANYBODY FROM OUR SERVICE THAT YOU
CAN SPECIFICALLY RECOGNIZE AND PUT LOCATION TO THEM THE LAST AGAIN SAID EARLIER WHEN
ME AND COMMISSIONER GREGORY GOT TO THE CORNER OF LIBERTY STREET AND WEST STREET CHIEF BARBARA WAS AT THAT LOCATION THEY HAD STARTED SETTING UP COMMAND
17

DAMATO
PMT AT THAT LOCATION
REMEMBER SEEING WHEN FIRST EXITED THE CAR
THAT WE PARKED ON VESEY AND WEST WHILE WE WERE WALKING
DOWN THE WEST SIDE GANCIS AIDE STEVE OUT OF HIS VEHICLE STEVE
REMEMBER SEEING STEVE CHIEF MOSIELLO HE WAS GETTING STUFF
DIDNT SEE CHIEF GANCI BUT SAW
WHERE WAS THAT
THAT WAS ON WEST STREET BETWEEN VESEY AND LIBERTY HIS CAR WAS PARKED MORE TOWARDS VESEY LOOKING AT THE MAP GUESS ON THE WEST SIDE OF WEST STREET
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU THINK IS IMPORTANT THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO INCLUDE BEFORE WE CONCLUDE
NO
MR FELLER OKAY AM GOING TO CONCLUDE THE INTERVIEW WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME IN ASSISTING US IN THIS ENDEAVOR THE TIME NOW IS 852 HOURS WE ARE CONCLUDING THE INTERVIEW NOW
18
File No. 9110044
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
            EMT PASQUALE FELITTI
      Interview Date:   October 11, 2001
P. FELITTI
CHRISTOPHER ECCLESTON: Today’s date is October 11, 2001. The time is 9:57. My name is Christopher Eccleston of the Fire Department of the City of New York. I’m conducting and interview with the following individual. Please state your name, title, rank, and assigned command area of the Fire Department of the City of New York regarding the events of September 11th, 2001.
      PASQUALE FELITTI: My name is Pasquale Felitti, I’m an EMT assigned
to EMS Battalion 4.
Q: Were you assigned to the World Trade Center disaster on September 11th, 2001?
      A:    Yes.
      Q:    En route to this call, what did you see?
      A:    You could see the North Tower with a big hole in the side of
it.  It was kind of chaotic,  people running away from it.
      Q:    When you arrived on the scene, where did you park your
vehicle?
      A:    Parked in between Fulton and Dey street on Church Street.
      Q:    Can you indicate on the map we provided for you with a 1,
the location where you were?  Okay?  And what vehicle were you in?
      A:    Vehicle 108.
      Q:    Vehicle 108, okay.  When you arrived there, did any
civilians report anything to you?
2
P. FELITTI
      A:    No, they just kind pointed us over to another EMS crew where
there was people hurt.
      Q:    Whom did you first report to when you arrived?
      A:    When we first got there, we didn’t report to anybody, there
was no one there.  It was us, a New York Downtown unit, 4 Henry was on
the scene, and 1 Adam.  We went over to medic unit, the Downtown unit,
and we helped out over there. When the second plane hit, me and my
partner were separated.  I wound up going with Lt. Melarango towards the
South tower to get people out.  We didn’t go into it but towards there.
My partner went with a cop who led him over to a church.  There were
patients over there. We got separated until the following day.
      Q:    Okay, what time approximately did you arrive on the scene?
      A:    We were coming out of New York downtown hospital when the
first plane hit.  I think we were actually 98.
      Q:    So the first plane crashed in at 9:06.  So it was shortly
after that?
      A:    Yeah, right away.  Right after the first plane hit.
      Q:    8:48, so you arrived shortly after that?  Okay, I’m sorry.
What did you do between the time the first plane hit and the second
plane hit?
      A:    We were treating the ambulatory patients. Whoever was left
      in the area after walking wounded, we just picked up, put them in
      a bus and got them out of there.
3
P. FELITTI
      Q:      Then you said after the second plane hit you went
      somewhere with Lieutenant...?
      A:    Melarango
      Q:    Where did you go?
      A:    Towards the south tower, which was just hit.  We came in
between building 5 and building 4.  Cause people were coming out.  We
were just directing traffic. Telling them “walk that way”, up towards
Church Street, Dey Street, over there.
      Q:    What did you do once you got over there?
      A:    Just directed traffic and stuff.  That was after the second
plane hit.  Then they sent me back to go find my partner.  When I came
back, me and (inaudible) were  separated, so I wound up moving the
vehicle around to the staging area, which was Vesey and West Street.
      Q:    Okay, so just indicate on the map with a number 2, where you
moved the vehicle to?
      A:    Okay, I never actually got to Vesey street.  I was blocked
by fire apparatus on the Westside Highway.
      Q:
buildings?
A: Q:
So you never entered any of the World Trade Center
No, we didn’t go into them.
 What happened after you got over to Vesey and West?
4
P. FELITTI
      A:    I was at the first triage center, which is on the corner of
West and Vesey Street. I was with Mike D’Angelo, who is one of the
communications guys that was there.  I was triaging over there, when the
first tower started to collapse.  When the South Tower collapsed, we
evacuated up Vesey Street towards Fulton. Yeah, when the first tower
went down, we were right on Vesey Street.
      Q:    And what did you do in between the time when the first tower
collapsed and the second tower?
      A:    Just re-grouped, there was a lot of dust, you know, a lot of
people walking around.  They started to set up a triage in a second
building in between Vesey and Murray Street, around that area.  A
fireman was complaining of  back pain.  He said he was hit by debris and
stuff that was falling from the first one.  So as we started to triage
him, it was awhile after the first building fell, they were like an hour
apart, so I guess it was about 15 or 20 minutes after the first one fell
that he made his way out to us.  As we were assesing him, he said the
second building was starting to fall.  So me and, I forget the guys
name, me and a MetroCare paramedic, we put him into a St. Luke’s
ambulance that was running, and we transported him to St. Vincent’s
Hospital.  That was after the second building collapsed.  His injuries
were--he had broken ribs.  We think it was a punctured lung because he
had no lung sounds on the right side.  So we transported him to 21 after
the second building collapsed.
      Q:    You weren’t with the St. Luke’s crew?
5
P. FELITTI
      A:    No, the St. Luke’s Crew wasn’t there, they left the bus
running.  Cause what happened when the first building collapsed, the
Lieutenants and stuff along the side on Vesey Street said take any
ambulance that’s running and move it.  So people moving them.  We got
the patient.  There was a St. Lukes bus there. It was running. So we
just  loaded him up and took off.
      Q:    Who is the person you were with?
      A:    It was myself.  I was driving, and the paramedic from
MetroCare.  Paul, I think his name was.
      Q:    Okay.  Do you know approximately what time this was?  This
was after the Second Tower?
      A:    After the Second Collapse.
      Q:    Okay, the Second Tower collapsed at 10:29.
      A:    Between 10:30 and 10:40 is when we left.  Cause there was
still dust everywhere. You couldn’t see where you were going.
      Q:    Okay, and you brought this patient to hospital...?
      A:    21, St. Vincent’s.
      Q:    Okay, and from St. Vincent’s?
      A:    From St. Vincent’s we went back down to the Chelsea Pier’s
staging.  That’s where they had all the ambulances staging.
      Q:    Do you know about what time you got back to Chelsea Piers?
      A:    Probably between 10:45 and 11:00, give or take.
6
P. FELITTI
      Q:    Okay.
      A:    Yeah, around that time.
      Q:    Okay, and what did you do after you got to the Chelsea
station?
      A:    I reported to the Lieutenant there, I forget who it was.  I
told him I was half crew.  We wound up taking a group of doctors from
there to South Street, the ferry where they had set up another triage
area.  So me and a guy from the Bronx, who was just one of the vehicle
movers or something like that.  Me and him took the doctors over to the
ferry.  They sent--they left me over there.  That’s where I spent the
remainder of the day from there from about 11:00 to 4 or 5 in the
afternoon.
      Q:    And what did you see over at the triage area?
      A:    At the triage they did—walking wounded.  I think they
brought in a couple of firemen and police officers.  Stuff like that.
Not much came through there. Yeah firefighters and some police.
      Q:    Do you remember what any of their names were?
      A:    No, I don’t remember.
      Q:    Okay, that’s fine.  Is there anything else you would like to
tell me about the events that happened up until approximately 12 noon on
this day?
      A:    Not much, I mean, I think we did triage a little too close
to the actual MCI.  I mean, nobody knew the building was gonna fall like
that, but, I mean, I think the engineers or somebody should have gotten
there faster keep the firemen out. Like they
7
P. FELITTI
 said on the news about the jet fuel, it burns at 3,000 degrees or
something.  I mean, no one ever expected something like this, so you
can’t say the Fire Department got caught without their pants.
      Q:    Did you make any radio communications during this time that
would be important for us to know about?
      A:    Just that we were transporting one to St. Vincent’s.
      Q:    Okay, anything else that you would like to add?
      A:    No.
      Q:    Okay, I thank you very much for having this interview with
me.  This interview is concluded at 10:06 AM.  The counter on the
cassette player is 169.
8
File No. 9110045
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      LIEUTENANT WILLIAM MELARANGO
   Interview Date:  October 11, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
                  W. MELARANGO                  2
          MR. ECCLESTON:  Today's date is October
     11th, 2001.  The time is 10:20.  This is
     Christopher Eccleston of the New York City
     Fire Department.  I'm conducting an
     interview with the following individual.
          Please state your name, rank, title and
     assigned command area of the Fire Department
     of the City of New York regarding the events
     of September 11th, 2001.
          LIEUTENANT MELARANGO:  Lieutenant
     William Melarango shield number 407 assigned
     to Battalion 4 on September 11th.
     Q.   Were you assigned to the World Trade
Center disaster on September 11th, 2001?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   In route to the alarm, what did you
see?
     A.   I saw the north tower, smoke coming
from the north tower.
     Q.   Upon arrival where did you park your
vehicle?
     A.   I parked my command car on Broadway and
Fulton, facing westbound.
     Q.   Can you just indicate on the map with a
                  W. MELARANGO                  3
1 where you had parked your vehicle.
     A.   I did.
     Q.   On arrival did any civilians report
anything to you?
     A.   No, not directly towards me.  Civilians
were running away from the scene.
     Q.   Did you report to anybody when you
first arrived there?
     A.   I saw a treatment area that was
established in front of the Millennium Hotel on
Church and Fulton Street.
     Q.   You went to this triage area?
     A.   I went to the treatment area and saw
Lieutenant Medjuck and Captain Olszewski and
Lieutenant Davila.
     Q.   What did you do at this point?
     A.   Just assisted with patient care
details.  There was a supply truck that pulled up
with some additional oxygen tanks and back
boards, which I helped off-load.  Trying to get
personnel established, make sure everybody had
helmets on, safety considerations.
     Q.   About what time did you arrive on the
scene?
                  W. MELARANGO                  4
     A.   I heard the explosion.  I didn't see
the second plane hit.  I'm looking at your
schedule here.  So it had to be 9:05, 9:06 a.m.
when I got to the building.
     Q.   What did you do next?
     A.   We assisted with patient care.  We
assisted trying to get patients treated and
triaged and transported.  Also citywide came on,
asking to respond up to Park Row.  There was a
unit there that was involved in an MVA.  I walked
up there.  I determined the MVA was minor.  I
told the unit, "Just go back to your staging area
and the paperwork will be taken care of
afterwards and I reported back down to the
treatment area."
     Q.   Okay.  What happened next?
     A.   Patients were coming in.  I was mainly
concerned about falling debris.  There were
bodies and body parts falling, but there was also
parts of the building that were coming down.  We
were starting to think about moving the triage
area to a safer location, to the lobby of the
hotel.
          At some point we heard the rumble, and
                  W. MELARANGO                  5
the building came down and everybody scrambled.
     Q.   You were in front of what building?
     A.   The Millennium Hotel.
     Q.   The Millennium Hotel.
          At any time did you go into any of the
World Trade Center buildings prior to their
collapse?
     A.   I tried getting into Five World Trade
Center to see if there was a triage area
established in there initially.  I couldn't get
in.  There were too many people coming out.  So I
really couldn't get in there.
     Q.   What did you do after the first
collapse?
     A.   After the first collapse I had gone
back down to Church Street because I was
concerned about two of my crew members that were
there.  They had pulled up in an ambulance,
vehicle 219.  When I got back down to Church
Street, the vehicle was on fire.  I didn't see
anybody in the truck.  I was concerned about the
oxygen tanks exploding, so I backed off.
          A couple minutes after that a couple
firemen brought an ESU cop whose arm was badly
                  W. MELARANGO                  6
injured.  I saw a van and ambulance up on Vesey
and Church.  We brought him over there, and I
started to dress up his arm.
          At that time a fireman brought a DOA
over to the ambulance, which I believe was Father
Doyle.
     Q.   Father Judge?
     A.   Judge, I'm sorry, Father Judge.
          I was treating the police officer's
arm.  We were wrapping it up when we heard the
rumble from the second building and it start to
collapse.  We scrambled again.
     Q.   Then the second building came down.
     A.   The second building came down.  I
didn't go back down to -- I didn't go back down
to Church Street after that.  I went up to
Broadway by City Hall Park.  There was a couple
of municipal ambulances there which set up a
temporary treatment area.  There were a lot of
firemen coming to us with debris in their eyes.
     Q.   What was this location?
     A.   It was right across the street from
City Hall Park on Broadway by the Duane Reade
store.  I'm not sure what the street is.
                  W. MELARANGO                  7
          There were two ambulances there, two
municipal ambulances there.  We set up like a
little mini treatment area.  We had several
firemen come up to us, several police officers.
We flushed their eyes out, put them on oxygen if
they were having some trouble breathing.
          After I think maybe about 30, 45
minutes EMS citywide came up on the air and
requested a supervisor, if there were any
supervisors on the air.  They made the request
several times.  Nobody answered.  I came up on
the air and told them I was available.
          They asked me to report to -- establish
a staging area at West Broadway and Chambers,
which I did.  I went up to Broadway and Chambers.
When I got there, there was approximately maybe
20, 25 ambulances there mixed:  municipal,
voluntary, volunteer ambulances.  We started
establishing a treatment area there.
          A few minutes after that a police
officer came up to me and told me that the facade
in front of Seven World Trade Center was gone and
they thought there was an imminent collapse of
Seven World Trade Center.  I felt the location we
                  W. MELARANGO                  8
were at was too close to Seven World Trade
Center.
          So we advised citywide we were moving
the staging area to North End and Greenwich
Street.
Q. Okay.
     A.   At North End and Greenwich Street we
established -- myself and Lieutenant Eppinger
from Battalion 08.
     Q.   Approximately what time was this that
you moved?
     A.   Probably around 11, 11:30.  We
reestablished at North End and Greenwich Street.
We had a new staging area set up over there.
          During the course of the day, assets
just started showing up at the location.  We
didn't request them; they just started showing
up.  I had two bus loads of doctors and PAs.  I
think they might have just been driving by.  I
don't know.  Or else citywide assigned them over
there.  But they came.  They came with some
medical equipment.
          We set up a triage and treatment area
in front one of the office plazas.  We had set up
                  W. MELARANGO                  9
a hazmat sector, a morgue sector.  It just became
a larger operation as time went on.  At any given
time I probably had about 40 ambulances.  We were
ready to do even minor surgery at the location.
          A camera crew came up to me, one of the
production crews from some film company.  We
established and had lights set up in case we were
going to be operating at night, which was a
possibility.  We also set up some sky lights for
night.
          We treated approximately maybe 20
patients, all secondary to the event.  They were
all respiratory.  We had some cardiac patients.
Not directly related to the event.  They were
transported, treated and transported.
          About 10 or 11:00 I went back down to
the command center at Chambers and West and said
I thought the assets were not being utilized and
recommended that they downsize that operation and
close it down.  They agreed.
     Q.   What time was this?
     A.   About 10 or 11:00 that night.  Like I
said, we treated 20 patients, but that was in the
first couple of hours that we were there.  As
                  W. MELARANGO                 10
time went on, we weren't getting any patients at
our sector.
          So I went down to Chambers and West and
spoke to Chief Kowalczyk, and I recommended they
close it down.  He concurred.  We released the
ambulances back up to the Chelsea Piers.  I also
had MERV 3 at that location, Queens north.
Myself and Lieutenant Eppinger and one physician
and a couple of EMTs were responding to Battery
Park City at the south end.  We stayed there and
we established -- there was a treatment area
established.
          Captain Parra was there.  We stayed
there.  I was finally relieved around 3:00 in the
morning.
     Q.   Is there anything else you'd like to
add to this in regard to the events that happened
from the time the first plane went in to
approximately 12 noon?
     A.   Well, it was just a very large event.
The EMS assets were just initially overwhelmed
with patients, so there really wasn't time to get
a regular ICS going.  There were several sectors
that were established.
                  W. MELARANGO                 11
          There was very little command and
control, I felt, in the initial first hour.
There was no clear incident commander or chain of
command.  I thought there was a lot of
free-lancing going on, especially there was a lot
of free-lancing going on with voluntaries that
belonged to hospitals, private hospitals.  A lot
of these people are not familiar with EMAP and
the ICS system.  So they weren't really reporting
to anybody.  They were just grabbing people to
and going.
          I think had the incident -- had the
buildings not come down, the incident would have
been allowed to work itself out.  I think the
EMAP and ICS would have eventually kicked in.
There wasn't any time.
          As far as any incidents like this
again, the preplan staging was that we were
supposed to stage inside the building and
establish a forward triage area.  It was just a
very large incident.  There just wasn't any time
to get the ICS and EMAP.
     Q.   Is there anything else you'd like to
add?
A. No.
W. MELARANGO                 12
     Q.   Thank you very much for conducting this
interview with me.
          MR. ECCLESTON:  This interview is going
     to be concluded at 10:32.  The counter on
     the tape player is 190.

FILE NO 9110046
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT BRIAN CIRILLO
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 11 2001

CIIIRISTOPTIER ECCLESTON
AM THIS IS CHRISTOPHER ECCIESTON OF THE NEWYORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT AM
CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUALPLEASE STATE YOUR NAMERANK TITLE AND ASSIGNED COMMAND AREA OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEWYORK
REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001
BRIAN CIRILLO BRIAN CIRILLO EMT BATTALION 5523
2001
BRIAN DID YOU RESPOND TO THE WORLD TRADE DISASTER ON SEPTEMBER 11
YESJ DID
EN ROUTE TO THE ALARM WHAT DID YOU SEE
EN ROUTE TO THE ALARM SAW THE FIRST BUILDING HAD BEEN HIT BY PLANE AND
SMOKE WAS COMING OUT OF THE TOP OF THE BUILDING SO TURNED MY VEHICLE AROUND AND WENT TOWARDS IT
SO YOU WERE ON YOUR WAY HOME YES CORRECT
CORRECT SO YOU WERE IN YOUR PERSONAL VEHICLE AND YOU PARKED YOUR VEHICLE AND BEGAN TO RESPOND ON FOOT
CORRECT
OKAY WHERE DID YOU PARK YOUR CAR
PARKED MY CAR UNDERNEATH RIGHT OUTSIDE THE BATTERY TUNNEL EXIT ON THE
MANHATTAN SIDE
TODAY IS OCTOBER 11 2001 THE TIME IS 922

YOU
ON ARRIVAL AT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER DID ANY CIVILIANS REPORT ANYTHING TO
NO CIVILIANS FIREFIGHTER ACTUALLY APPROACHED ME AND TOLD ME THEY WERE SETTING UP TRIAGE ACROSS THE STREET WHILE WAS IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING AND THEY TOLD ME THEY WERE SITTING UP TRIAGE ACROSS THE STREET SO WENT OVER THERE
SO WHOMDID YOU REPORT TO WHENYOU ARRIVED
WHEN WENT ACROSS THE STREET THERE WAS NO REAL COMMANDEROVER THERE
THERE WAS FEMALE LIEUTENANT OVER THERE NEVER EVEN GOT THE NAME SHE HAD COMMAND BOARD WE WOULD JUST WAIT FOR ANYONE TO COME OUT ANYONE WHONEEDED ANY
HELP
COME OUT
AREA
WERE YOU GIVEN SPECIFIC ASSIGNMENT
NOT SPECIFIC ASSIGNMENT WEWERE TO HOLD STILL AND WAIT FOR THE PEOPLE TO
WERE YOU ASKED TO ASSIST ANY SPECIFIC UNITS
NO
WHAT WAS THE EXACT LOCATION TO THE BEST OF YOUR MEMORYOF THIS STAGING
IN FRONT OF THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING WESTSIDE HIGHWAY MORE TOWARDS THE DIVIDER OF THE WESTSIDE HIGHWAY IN FRONT OF THAT BUILDING
DID YOU EVER ENTER ANY OF THE BUILDINGS PRIOR TO THEIR COLLAPSE
NO GOT IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING AND FIREFIGHTER HAD TOLD ME THAT THEY WERE SETTING UP TRIAGE ACROSS THE STREET SO WENT OVER THERE

OKAY CAN YOU TELL MEWHAT HAPPENED NEXT YOUWERE AT THIS STAGING AREA WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT
WHAT HAPPENED NEXT WASWE WERE WAITING FOR PEOPLE TO COME OUT JUST TRYING TO DO WHATEVER WE COULD JUST WITNESSING EVERYTHING THAT WAS GOING ON PEOPLE
TRYING TO GET OUT OF THE BUILDINGS AND PEOPLE ACTUALLY JUMPING OUT OF THE BUILDINGS AFTER MAYBE 20 MINUTES 30 MINUTES THAT WEWERE THERE ONE OF THE BUILDINGS CAME DOWN
WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THE FIRST BUILDING CAME DOWN SAME SPOT RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE AMEX BUILDING
AND WHOWERE YOU WITH
WAS WITH GROUP OF EMTS AND PARAMEDICS JUST WAITING NO ONE REALLY GOT ANYONES NAME WE JUST KIND OF WAITED KIND OF SHOCKED NOT REALLY TALKING THAT MUCH
WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE FIRST BUILDING CAME DOWN
THE FIRST BUILDING CAME DOWNWE BASICALLY RAN UP VESEY STREET TOWARDS THE WATER HAD TO DUCK BEHIND CAR TO PROTECT MYSELF FROM ANYTHING FALLING ONCE THE SMOKED CLEARED OUT LITTLE BIT WE GOT UP AND STARTED LOOKING FOR PEOPLE WEFOUND FEW PEOPLE AND WE SET UP ANOTHER TRIAGE GUESS ON NORTH END FORGET WHAT BUILDING IT WASNT THE MERRIL LYNCH BUILDING IT WAS THE ONE ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE WEWERE BRINGING PEOPLE THERE INSIDE THE BUILDING IT WASSTILL RUNNING THERE WASWATER THERE THERE WAS BIG OPEN SPACE THAT WECOULD FEEL PROTECTED IN
OKAY
WE WERE JUST GOING BACK AND FORTH TO THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING TRYING TO
TAKE ANYONE WHONEEDED ANY KIND OF HELP BRING THEM OVER THERE

OKAY AND YOU CONTINUED DOING THIS
WE CONTINUED DOING THAT UNTIL ACTUALLY WHAT HAPPENED WAS STARTED WALKING BACK GOT TO PRETTY MUCH THE SAME SPOT WAS BEFORE WHEN WEHEARD THE OTHER CRASH AND THE OTHER BUILDING STARTED COMING DOWN AND WE HAD TO DO THE SAME THING WE DID THE FIRST TIME JUST TAKE OFF WOUNDUP DIVING INTO THE FRONT OF THE AMEX BUILDING WHICH WASNT GREAT COVER CAUSE ALL THE WINDOWS HAD BLOWN OUT BUT IT WASTHE FIRST PLACE WE FOUND
OKAY WHOWERE YOU WITH AT THIS POINT DO YOU KNOW WHO YOU WERE
WITH
BELIEVE AROUND THIS TIME THE ONLY MAN REMEMBER BEING THERE THE ONLY NAME GOT WAS CHIEF WELLS DIDNT GET ANYONE ELSE
OKAY DID YOU REMOVE ANY INJURED CIVILIANS OR MEMBERSOFTHE SERVICE
YEAH AFTER ABOUT 20 OR 30 MINUTES OF DOING WHAT WE WERE DOING WEHAD COMMANDEERED AN AMBULANCE THAT WAS SITTING THERE IT WASPRETTY MUCHTHE ONLY ONE STILL INTACT AND THE KEYS HAPPENED TO STILL BE IN IT WEFOUND TWO FIREMEN AND ANOTHER CIVILIAN WHO SUFFERED GUESS SMOKE INHALATION AND COULDNT BREATHE VERY WELL WEPUT THEM IN THERE AND TRIED TO HEAD UPTOWN TO THE HOSPITAL
AND THIS WAS ABOUT WHAT TIME YOU SAID AFTER THE SECOND TOWER WENT
DOWN
AFTER THE SECOND TOWER WENT DOWN AFTER THE SECOND TOWER WENT DOWN WECONTINUED LOOKING DIGGING THROUGH WHATEVER WECOULD DIG THROUGH WE LOOKED IN THE AMEX BUILDING TO SEE IF ANYONE WAS LEFT IN THERE WENT OVER TO THE FRONT OF THE WORLD TRADE BUILDING PRETTY MUCH ALL THAT WAS AROUND US WAS FIREFIGHTERS THERE STILL WAS LOT

OF SMOKE ACROSSTHE STREET HAPPENED TO BE PARKING LOT THE PARKING LOT SEEMED TO BE PRETTY MUCH ON FIRE EVERY CAR IN THERE JUST LOOKED LIKE IT WAS ON FIRE THERE WAS BLACK
SMOKE COVERING EVERYTHING SO COULDNT STAY THAT LONG WITH NO BREATHING DEVISE LOOKING FOR WHOEVER WECOULD FIND WE HAPPENED TO FIND THINK THREE
SO THEN YOU LOADED THEM IN AN AMBULANCE DID YOU HAVE PARTNER AT THAT
TIME
NO DIDNT HAVE PARTNER THE CHIEF WHOHAPPENED TO BE THERE WITH ME SAID TAKE THEM UPTOWN TO THE FURTHEST HOSPITAL CAUSE WHAT WAS AROUND WASBASICALLY
JAMPACKED DID THAT DROPPED THEM OFF AT THAT TIME ASKED THEM TO FLUSH MY EYES
OUT WITH
SALINE
SOLUTION AND WENT BACK
OKAY DID YOU KNOW WHAT TIME YOU GOT BACKAPPROXIMATELY APPROXIMATELY 200
ABOUT TWO OCLOCK
YEAH GIVE OR TAKE YOU KNOW
OKAY IS THERE ANYTHING YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD TO THIS TO THE EVENTS THAT
HAPPENED PRIOR TO 12 NOON
PRIOR TOL2 NOON THAT WAS AFTER THE TOWERS COLLAPSED NO
CORRECT WELL THE NORTH TOWERCOLLAPSED WHICH WAS THE SECOND TOWERAT 1029 AND THEN YOU SAID ABOUT 20 MINUTES LATER SO THAT WOULD BE LITTLE BIT BEFORE 11
YOU TRANSPORTED TWO PATIENTS
YEAH GIVE OR TAKE IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN LONGER WELL PERSONALLY IT WAS JUST
HORRIBLE FELT HELPLESS UNFORTUNATELY PEOPLE WHO REALLY NEEDED THE HELP WERE UPSTAIRS

AND WE COULDNT GET TO THEM IT WAS BAD SITUATION ALL AROUND COULDNT DO ANYTHING FOR ANYONE REALLY
OKAY THANK YOU FOR DOING THIS INTERVIEW WITH ME THIS INTERVIEW IS CONCLUDED AT 931 HOURS THE COUNTER ON THE RECORDER IS AT 163

FILE NO 9110047
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT ALLEN CRUZ
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 11 2001

CRUZ
CTIIRISTOPTIIERECCLESTON TODAYS DATE IS OCTOBER 112001 THE TIME IS 1023 AND AM CHRISTOPHER ECCIESTON OF THE NEWYORK CITY FIRE
DEPARTMENT AM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME RANK TITLE ASSIGNED COMMAND AREA SHIELD NUMBER OF THE FIRE
DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEWYORKREGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001 ALLEN CRUZ HI MY NAME IS ALLEN CRUZ MY SHIELD NUMBER IS
3361 AND WORKFOR THE NEWYORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES AND MY TITLE IS LSU AND DECON SPECIALIST
WERE YOU ASSIGNED TO THE WORLDTRADE CENTER DISASTER ON
SEPTEMBER 112001
YES WAS
EN ROUTE TO THE ALARM WHAT DID YOU SEE
WELL GOT THERE AFTER THE FIRST CRASH JUST BEFORE THE SECOND CRASH WENT DOWNFULTON STREET AND PARKED MY VEHICLE ON FULTON AT THE CORNER OF
CHURCH STREET
NUMBER
LIVES
CAN YOU INDICATE ON THE MAP WHERE YOU PARKED YOUR VEHICLE WITH
SURE NUMBER RIGHT HERE
OKAY UPON ARRIVAL DID ANY CIVILIANS REPORT ANYTHING TO YOU
NO NOT AT ALL EVERYONE WAS THERE SCREAMING AND RUNNING FOR THEIR

WHOMDID YOU FIRST REPORT TO WHENYOU ARRIVED THERE
REPORTED TO NO ONE TONOONE
RIGHT
WHAT DID YOU DO WHEN YOU ARRIVED THERE
WHEN GOT THERE COULDNT BELIEVE WHAT WAS SEEING
CORNER OF FULTON AND CHURCH SAW COUPLE OF MY VEHICLES PARKED ON CHURCH
STREET RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AS EXITED MY VEHICLE SAW THIS
HUGE FIRE UP ON THE BUILDING YOU KNOW NUMEROUS PEOPLE RUNNING OUT AND RUNNING UP THE BLOCK TOWARDSME TOWARDSMY VEHICLE SCREAMING AND HOLLERING IN
PANIC
WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT
DIDAGAIN COULDNT BELIEVE WHAT WAS SEEING WASIN SHOCK
AND WHAT DID WAS HELPED SOME OF THE PEOPLE GET UP OFF THE FLOOR CAUSE THEY
WERE FALLING AND TRIPPING ALL OVER THEMSELVES AND KEPT TELLING THEM TO KEEP ON
RUNNING LOT OF PEOPLE THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE SAFE THEY RAN OUT OF THE
BUILDING ACROSS THE STREET AND LIKE MYSELF THEY THOUGHT IT WASJUST THE AVERAGE
FIRE THEY PROCEEDEDTO JUST STAND THERE AND LOOK UP AND AGAIN THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE SAFE BECAUSE THEY HAD CROSSED THE STREET BY MY VEHICLE AS MYSELF THOUGHT
WAS SAFE AND WEJUST STOOD THERE IN AWEJUST LOOKING UP AGAIN WHILE WAS THERE LOOKING UP THERE WERE STILL PEOPLE RUNNING AND FALLING AND PROCEEDED TO RUN TO THEM PICK THEM UP AND SHOVE THEM AND TELL THEM KEEP RUNNING PLEASE
GOT TO THE

KEEP MOVING KEEP MOVING JUST STOOD THERE LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE JUST WATCHING THIS UNFOLD
OKAY HOW LONG DID YOU DO THIS FOR APPROXIMATELY DID THAT UP UNTIL THE SECOND PLANE HIT
WHENTHE SECOND PLANE HIT WHAT DID YOU DO
WELL WAS STANDING AGAIN HELPING THESE PEOPLE GET UP LOOKING
UP WATCHING THESE PEOPLE JUMP OUT OFTHE WINDOWS REALLY WASIN SHOCK COULDNT BELIEVE WHAT WAS SEEING ORMAYBE DIDNT WANT TO BELIEVE WHAT WAS SEEING AS WAS STANDING THERE WAS BUNCH OF PEOPLE HIDING BEHIND AND AROUND MY VEHICLE AS WEWERE STANDING THERE THIS ONE LADY TO MY LEFT GRABBED ME REALLY REALLY TIGHT MY FOREARM MY LEFT FOREARM AND WE WERE BOTH LOOKING UP AT THIS
FIRE WEBOTH HEAR THIS RUMBLE AND FELT VIBRATION WE LOOKED SLIGHTLY TO THE
LEFT ALL OF US THERES WHOLE BUNCH OF US RIGHT NEXT TO MY VEHICLE AND HERE
COMES THIS PLANE HUGE PLANE THE LADY NEXT TO ME SAYS OH MY GOD ITS GONNA HIT THE BUILDING DIDNT WANT TO GIVE HER FALSE INFORMATION SO SAID GEE DONT THINK SO WELL HOPE NOT MEAN WERE LOOKING AT IT SORT OF IN THREE DIMENSIONS
SO IM THINKING ITS GONNA GO BEHIND THE BUILDING FROM WHERE WERE STANDING
ITS GONNA GO RIGHT BEHIND IT BUT IT WASTOO BIG AND FAR TOO LOW AT THAT MOMENT SAID ITS GONNA HIT ITS ACTUALLY GONNA HIT AND IT HIT SHE SCREAMED SHE SAID OH MY GOD AT WHICH POINT SAID EVERYBODY JUST RUN AND THERE WERE SOME CURSE WORDS TOLD EVERYBODY YOU GOTTA RUN RUN RUN THEY PROCEEDEDTO RUN IN
TURN JUMPED INTO MY VEHICLE AND WHOLE BUNCH OF DEBRIS JUST CAME CRASHING DOWNONTOPOFMYVEHICLE ATWHICHPOINT SAID NO EXITED MYVEHICLE AND TOO

RAN BEHIND MY VEHICLE UNBEKNOWNST TO ME THERE WERE STILL PEOPLE HIDING NOT ONLY BEHIND BUT UNDERNEATH MY VEHICLE FEW SECONDS FEW MINUTES MAYBE WENT BY AND WEGATHERED OUR THOUGHTS AND CAME OUT FROM BEHIND MY VEHICLE AND
TOLD EVERYONE WHO WAS BEHIND MY VEHICLE AND IN THE STREETS TO RUN TO KEEP RUNNING AT WHICH TIME RAN TOWARDSTHE BUILDING TO CHURCH STREET SOME OF
THE EMS PEOPLE WERE THERE AND SAID EVERYBODY DROP WHAT YOURE DOING AND JUST GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE RUN RUN JUST LEAVE EVERYTHING JUST GO RUN RUN AT
THE SAME TIME THERE WAS LOT OFDEBRIS COMING DOWNAND THEY DID THEY DROPPED WHAT THEY WERE DOING AND THEY JUST SCATTERED ALL OVER THE PLACE AGAIN PEOPLE
WEREJUST FALLING AND STUMBLING AND KEPT PICKING THEM UP AND PUSHING THEM TO RUN THEN STARTED PICKING UP ALL THE EQUIPMENT THAT THE GUYS LEFT BEHIND
STARTED GATHERING STUFF OFF THE STREET STARTED PUTTING IT BY MY VEHICLE ON THE STREET CORNER WANTED TO COMPILE EVERYTHING IN ONE NEAT LITTLE CORNER MAYBE ITS
HABIT THATS WHAT DO THATS MY JOB RETRIEVE EQUIPMENT DIDNT WANT TO
ABANDON EVERYTHING SO STARTED MOVING ALL THE EQUIPMENT OUT OF THE STREET TOWARDS MY SIDE OF THE STREET WHEN THE BUILDING COLLAPSED
THIS IS WHEN THE FIRST BUILDING COLLAPSED
YES
OKAY WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER THE FIRST BUILDING COLLAPSED
RAN LIKE HELL LEFT EVERYTHING THERE AND RAN LIKE HELL RAN TO
MY VEHICLE AND JUMPED INSIDE JUST AS WAS ABOUT TO GO INTO GEAR NOTICED THAT THERE WERE FEET UNDERNEATH MY VEHICLE SO LEFT IT IN PARK JUMPED OUT AND THERE WERE PEOPLE STILL HIDING UNDERNEATH IT AT WHICH TIME SAID YOU PEOPLE GOTTA GO

YOU CANNOT STAY HERE YOU GOTTA GO THE RUMBLINGS COMING DOWN THEY GOT UP OUT DRAGGEDTHE LADY OUT FROM UNDERNEATH THERE WERE STILL PEOPLE AROUND AND BEHIND IT TOLD THEM YOU ALL GOTTA RUN AND THEY DID AT WHICH TIME THE THING CAME DOWN BIG WALL OF SMOKE CAME AND HID BEHIND MY VEHICLE JUST TOOK BIG BREATH ANDJUST WAITED FOR IT TO PASS
YOU STAYED THERE WHAT HAPPENED NEXT
DONT KNOW HOWMUCH TIME ELAPSED BUT IT GOT REALLY DARK AND
COULDNT BREATH WAS COVERED IN SOOT AGAIN DONT KNOW HOWLONG IT LASTED WERE YOU THERE WHEN THE SECOND TOWER COLLAPSED
NOT IN THAT LOCATION NO
OKAY WHERE DID YOU GO BETWEEN FROM WHENTHE FIRST TOWER COLLAPSED TO THE SECOND TOWER
GOT BACK IN MY VEHICLE WHEN THOUGHT IT WAS SAFE AGAIN WAS FACING CHURCH STREET SO WHAT DID WAS MADE RIGHT ONTO CHURCH STUNNED WAS STUNNED STILL COULD NOT BELIEVE WHAT WAS HAPPENING
IM SURE
MADE LEFT ON VESEY VESEY AND VESTRY ALWAYS GET ME CONFUSED YOU CAME UP YOU TURNED ONTO CHURCH
VESTRY VESEY CAME DOWNHERE MADE LEFT ONVESEY AND PROCEEDED TO GO BETWEEN NUMBER FIVE WORLDTRADE AND NUMBER SEVEN WORLD TRADE
APPROXIMATELY RIGHT HERE

CAME ACROSS HERE RIGHT CROSSING WEST STREET SOMEWHERE AROUND HERE DONT RECALL THEY SAY PARKED SOMEWHERE ALONGSIDE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THIS STREET HERE THERE WERE AMBULANCES ALL PARKED ON THE LEFT AND PARKED ON THE RIGHT
HIGHWAY
SO YOU PARKED APPROXIMATELY RIGHT HERE
RIGHT ABOUT BELIEVE SO
WHICH IS IN FRONT OF WORLD TRADE CENTER IS THAT CORRECT
NO WE PASSED HERES
OH OK WEST STREET SORRY FORGIVE ME HERES WEST
THIS IS VESEY
NOWEPASSED THIS SOMEWHEREALONG THIS STREET BEFORE WEST SIDE
OKAY SO BY THE TELEPHONE COMPANY BUILDING YEAH WOULD HAVE TO ASSUME
SO YOU WERE ON VESEY STREET JUST BEFORE WEST IS THAT CORRECT JUST BEFORE WEST
SO YOU WERE APPROXIMATELY RIGHT YEAH
OKAY THE MAP IS GONNA INDICATE
HERE
WHERE THE LSU IS MOVED TO
NEXT CORRECT
YEAH
OKAY AFTER YOU GOT THERE

WOULD THIS BE NORTH END STREET HERE THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY THIS WOULD BE THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY
OKAY
NORTH END IS OVER HERE
OKAY GOT IT RIGHT ABOUT THERE
SO AFTER YOU PARKED THERE THE FIRST TOWERHAS ALREADY COMEDOWN
THE SECOND TOWERHAS NOT COMEDOWNYET IS THAT CORRECT RIGHT THAT IS CORRECT
YOU PARKED HERE WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT
HERE AGAIN DONT RECALL
DOYOUR BEST
AGAIN THERE WAS BUNCH OF GUYS THERE THERE WAS BUNCH OF
GUYS THERE ALL OF THE AMBULANCES LIKE SEVEN OF THEM PARKED ON ONE SIDE OF THE STREET AND WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE AGAIN WAS THE ONLY VEHICLE PARKED THERE WE CAME OUT WE COULDNT BELIEVE WHAT WAS HAPPENING WE STARTED TO TREAT PEOPLE THEY WERE TREATING PEOPLE HERE RECALL THAT THEN SOMEBODY SAID RUN THE OTHER BUILDINGS GONNA FALL AGAIN DONT KNOW DONT RECALL IF THE OTHER BUILDING FELL AT THIS POINT OR AS WE LEFT THERES MOMENT THERE WHERE DONT REMEMBER
TO THE BEST OF YOUR MEMORY DONT WANT TO PRESSURE YOU THINK THEY SAID TO MOVE CAUSE THERES THREAT OFTHE BUILDING
FALLING OR THREAT OF ANOTHER PLANE THEY SAID ANOTHER PLANE WAS GONNA HIT SO
RUN SO WEPROCEEDED EVERYONE GOT INTO THEIR VEHICLES AND WE PROCEEDEDTO GO UP TO WEST END STREET THE LIEUTENANT WAS STANDING THERE FACING THE UNITS

EVERYONE GOT INTO THEIR VEHICLES AND WE ABANDONED THAT AREA THERE WAS THREAT
OF THE BUILDING FALLING OR ANOTHER PLANE WAS GONNA HIT WE PROCEEDED TOWARDS NORTH END STREET
NORTH END OKAY THIS IS NORTH END STREET
AS WE APPROACHED THE LIEUTENANT HE HAD ALL THE VEHICLES HE WAS TELLING THEM ALL TO GO TO THE LEFT GO TO THE LEFT HE TOLD ME TO GO TO THE RIGHT
WHICH IS TOWARDSNORTH END GUESS BY THE MARINA THERES MARINA THERE SOMEWHERE
THE MARINA WOULD BE RIGHT HERE
OKAY SO WECAME UP HERE THIS STREET EVERYBODY WENT THIS WAY AND WENT THAT WAY RIGHT OVER HERE SOMEWHERECAUSE REMEMBER THERES BUILDING IN FRONT OF US
SO RIGHT HERE ON NORTH END JUST SOUTH OF VESEY IS WHERE YOU PARKED YOUR VEHICLE NEXT
YES
OKAY THE MAP IS GONNA INDICATE WITH NUMBER WHERE YOUR LSU WAS PARKED NEXT OKAY SO NOWYOU PARKED OVER HERE HAS THE SECOND TOWER COME
DOWN YET
NUMBER
OR YOURE NOT SURE IF YOURE NOT SURE THATS FINE
BUILDING CAME DOWN ONLY DONT KNOW IF IT WAS NUMBER OR
OKAY NUMBER DIDNT COMEDOWNTILL MUCH LATER SO THEN IT WAS NUMBER THAT CAME DOWN
SO THEN NUMBER CAME DOWN

YEAH WELL IT DIDNT COME DOWN THAT TIME THE GUYS WERE SETTING UP TRIAGE AT SOME HOTEL OVER HERE AND WEWERE TREATING PEOPLE HERE WEWERE TREATING AN AWFUL LOT OF PEOPLE HERE
ON NORTH END JUST SOUTH OFVESEY YOU WERE TREATING PEOPLE
AS WEWERE DOING THAT SOMEBODY SAID THERES ANOTHER PLANE THATS IT ANOTHER PLANE IS COMING ANOTHER PLANE IS GONNA CRASH WEHEARD THIS RUMBLE THATS WHEN THE BUILDING CAME DOWN WE ALL THOUGHT IT WAS PLANE EVERYBODY JUST FIREFIGHTERS MYSELF WEWERE TREATING PEOPLE EVERYBODY JUST THREWTHEMSELVES DOWNTO THE FLOOR AND THEY HID ALL AROUND MY VEHICLE YOU KNOW ANYTHING THEY COULD FIND THEY JUST THREWTHEMSELVES DOWN WE ACTUALLY THOUGHT IT WAS ANOTHER PLANE THATS RIGHT THATS WHEN THE OTHER BUILDING CAME DOWN BECAUSE WE HEARD THE RUMBLE BOOM JUST CRASHING DOWN THOUGHT IT WAS ANOTHER PLANE YEAH EXACTLY THATS WHAT HAPPENED
TOWERTWO CAME DOWNTHEN WHAT HAPPENED NEXT WHAT DID YOU DO WHAT DID YOU SEE
TOWER CAME DOWNEVERYBODY EVACUATED THE HOTEL AREA WHERE
THEY HAD THE TEMPORARY TRIAGE CENTER EVERYBODY GOT IN THEIR VEHICLE ACTUALLY THEY DIDNT GET IN THEIR VEHICLES THEY RAN EVERYBODY JUST EVACUATED THEY SAID RUN CLEAR AND EVERYBODY JUST TOOK OFF AGAIN STOOD STOOD THERE WENT TO THE HOTEL IT WAS EMPTY SEE WOULDNT LEAVE THE VEHICLE CAUSE HAVE TO STAY
WITH THAT VEHICLE AT ALL TIMES HAVE ALL THE EXTRA EQUIPMENT IN CASE THE GUYS NEED
SOMETHING PLUS MY PORTABLE RADIO WAS GOING DEAD IF THEY NEEDED ME NEEDED TO BE ON THE AIR SO WHAT KEPT DOING WASGOING INTO MY VEHICLE AND MONITORING
10

THE RADIO IN MY VEHICLE INSTEAD OF MY PORTABLE SO KEPT SWITCHING BACK AND FORTH THE BUILDING CAME DOWN EVERYONE TOOK OFF HID BEHIND MY VEHICLE HID
OUTSIDE MY VEHICLE WAS LOOKING UP THIS STREET HERE UP VESEY STREET
VESEY JUST SAW THIS HUGE BALL OF SMOKE COMING AT ME SO WAS TRYING TO TIME IT WASTRYING TO WAIT FOR IT AND TIME IT ESCAPED THE FIRST ONE SO FIGURED OKAY NO SWEAT TOOK DEEP BREATH GET DOWN AND JUST WAIT FOR IT TO PASS BUT UNBEKNOWNST TO ME IM LOOKING UP THE STREET HER HEAR THIS RUMBLING SOUND COMING FROM BEHIND ME AS IM CROUCHED DOWN AND AS TURNED AROUND SEE THIS HUGE BALL OF SMOKE COMING DIDNT EXPECT IT TO COMEFROM BEHIND ME IT CAME AROUND THE BUILDING AND IT CAME FROM BEHIND ME SO IT KIND OF CAUGHT ME OFF GUARD SO JUST LAID MYSELF DOWN ON THE FLOOR BY THE TIRE TOOK DEEP BREATH AND JUST WAITED IT BLEW PAST ME AND WAITED FEW SECONDS FOUND MY DOOR COULDNT SEE ANYTHING FOUND MY DOOR AND JUMPED INTO MY VEHICLE WHILE DOING SO BUMPED MY HEAD UP AGAINST THE STEERING WHEEL SO CROUCHED MYSELF UNDERNEATH MY STEERING WHEEL BY THE PEDALS AND JUST CROUCHED AND WAITED
DONT KNOWHOWLONG BUT JUST WAITED THERE UNTIL WAS ABLE TO SEE LIGHT THEN GOT OUT OF MY VEHICLE THERE WAS PEOPLE STILL SCURRYING AROUND BUT IT WAS SOMEWHAT DESERTED VERY DISMAL WALKED OVER TO THE TEMPORARYTRIAGE CENTER
AND THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NOBODY NOT EVEN ANYBODY IN THE HOTEL IN THE LOBBY MOMENT AGO THERE WASPEOPLE THERE BUT NOWTHERE WAS NOBODY THERE WAS LIKE SEVEN VEHICLES PARKED IN FRONT AND NO BODY SO EVERYBODY RAN TOWARDSCHAMBERS STREET
11

SO THEY RAN NORTH ON NORTH END STREET TOWARDS CHAMBERS RIGHT THEN AT THIS POINT NOTICED THAT SOME OF THE VEHICLES HAD
THEIR IGNITION KEYS STILL IN THE IGNITION SO JUMPED IN THE VEHICLE TURNED IT ON AND DROVE IT TO WHERE EVERYBODY WAS STAGING AT CHAMBERS STREET THEN WALKED
ALL THE WAY BACK GOT ANOTHER VEHICLE AND TOOK IT OVER THERE AND PARKED IT CAME BACK THE THIRD VEHICLE WOULDNTSTART IT HAD THE KEYS IN IT AND IT WASDEAD SO WALKED BACK TO MY TRUCK MY LSU AND WENT STRAIGHT OVER TO WHERE THAT VEHICLE WAS TOOK OUT MY CABLES AND JUMPED IT JUMP STARTED IT LEGALLY PARKED MY VEHICLE TO THIS DAY IT BOTHERS ME CAUSE THE STREET WAS DESERTED INSTEAD OF JUST LEAVING MY VEHICLE THERE ONCE GOT THAT VEHICLE STARTED ACTUALLY GOT INTO MY VEHICLE AND LEGALLY PARKED IT PROCEEDED TO MOVE THAT VEHICLE JUMPED IT MOVED TWO JUMPED TWO THEN ALL THE OTHER PEOPLE WERE HERE
OTHER PEOPLE WERE ON CHAMBERS AND NORTH END
YEAH THEN ONE OF THE FELLOWS THAT WAS HERE SAID THAT HE HAD LEFT HIS VEHICLE IN FRONT OF MINE VEHICLE 240 REMEMBER SEEING IT IN FRONT OF ME SO
SAID OKAY GIVE ME YOUR KEYS AND ILL GO AND GET YOUR VEHICLE HE SAID PLEASE
DONT GOT THERE DONT GO ITS DANGEROUS SAID LOOK YOU NEED THE VEHICLE ILL GO GET IT FOR YOU CAN WALK FASTER THAN YOU ITS NO BIG DEAL ITS NO PROBLEM WILL HANDLE IT HE GAVE ME THE KEYS AND WALKED ALL THE WAY BACK AND GOT HIS
VEHICLE ACTUALLY DIDNT GET HIS VEHICLE WHEN GOT TO HIS VEHICLE HE HAD
GIVEN ME THE WRONG KEY THAT PISSED ME OFF HAD TO WALK ALL THE WAY BACK TO HIM THAT WASHIS VEHICLE SAID LOOK YOU GAVE ME THE WRONGDAMN KEY AT WHICH POINT HE SAID IM GOING WITH YOU SAID OKAY FINE SO WEBOTH WALKED ALL THE
12

WAY BACK HE GOT INTO HIS VEHICLE GOT INTO MINE AND WAITED FOR HIM TO START HIS VEHICLE UP IN CASE HE NEEDED MY HELP IN CASE HE NEEDED MY JUMP HE GOT IT
STARTED THE LIGHTS CAME ON HE MADE UTURN HE PULLED OUT AND PULLED OUT WITH HIM WEALL MET AT CHAMBERS STREET
THERE
NOTHING
THERE
DO YOU KNOW ABOUT WHAT TIME THIS WAS THAT YOU FINALLY GOT UP
HONESTLY NO SIR COULD NOT TELL YOU THE TIME COULDNT TELL YOU IM SURE IT WAS ALL BLUR
YEAH WAS LOST FOR TIME DIDNT THINK OF LOOKING AT MY WATCH OR
AFTER YOU GOT TO CHAMBERS AND NORTH END WHAT DID YOU DO UP
AT WHICH TIME PROCEEDED DOWN CHAMBERS STREET AND PARKED MY VEHICLE ON THE CORNER OF CHAMBERS AND WEST
OKAY RIGHT HERE
CHAMBERS AND WEST STREET RIGHT ON THIS SIDE OF THE STREET
ACTUALLY PARKED IT RIGHT IN FRONT OF THINK IT WAS THE BMCC COLLEGE
OKAY SO THE NUMBER INDICATES WHERE YOUR VEHICLE WAS PARKED
NEXT ON WEST AND CHAMBERS WHENYOU GOT THERE WHAT HAPPENED NEXT
STOOD THERE WITH MY VEHICLE STOOD THERE AND STARTED WATCHING
THIS WHOLE OPERATION UNFOLD UNITS STARTED COMING VEHICLES STARTED COMING
BOSSES STARTED COMING POLICE DEPARTMENT FIRE DEPARTMENT PEOPLE STARTED COMING THEY JUST ALL CONVENED ON THAT ONE CORNER JUST STOOD THERE AND
13

WATCHED THAT WHOLE OPERATION UNFOLD EVERY TIME WHEN MY EMS PEOPLE CAME THE COMMAND TRUCK CAME AND THE CHIEFS CAME REPORTED TO THEM SAID LOOK IM PARKED OVER HERE SAID IF YOU NEED ANYTHING GOT THE LSU PARKED ON THIS
CORNER THEY SAID OKAY WHAT NEED FROM YOU ALLEN THAT WAS MY CHIEF IS NEED THE TABLE THAT WE HAVE THAT THEY CAN WRITE STUFF HAVE THAT TABLE
LIKE THE COMMAND BOARD
EXACTLY WENT TO MY VEHICLE GOT IT GAVE IT TO HIM FOR THE NEXT THIRTY SOMETHING HOURS JUST STOOD WITH MY TRUCK RIGHT THERE IN THAT CORNER
WAS THERE UNTIL WEDNESDAY THE NEXT DAY
WOWTHATS LONG TIME IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WOULD LIKE TO
ADD TO THIS ANYTHING ELSE YOU WOULD LIKE TO TELL ME ABOUT THE EVENTS THAT HAPPENED UP UNTIL ABOUT NOON THAT DAY
NOTHING THAT YOU HAVENT ALREADY HEARD OR SEEN OR FELT FOR YOURSELF MEAN THERE WAS NOTHING TO REALLY SAY TO DESCRIBE THIS WHOLE CATASTROPHE ITS
REALLY HARD TO DESCRIBE TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST MEANTO SEE THIS HAPPENING ITS
REALLY HARD TO DESCRIBE NO CAN HONESTLY TELL YOU EIGHTEEN YEARS PLUS ON THIS JOB AND IVE SEEN THE WORST THE CITY HAS TO OFFER BUT NOTHING TO THIS MAGNITUDE
THE FEELING WAS SO OVERWHELMING IT WASAN INCREDIBLE THING IM REALLY LOST FOR WORDS AT THIS TIME REALLY AM FORGIVE ME
NO PLEASE NO FORGIVENESS NECESSARY THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ALLOWING ME TO CONDUCT THIS INTERVIEW
YOURE VERY WELCOME
THE TIME IS 1144 THE COUNTER ON THE TAPE PLAYER IS AT 322
14

File No. 9110048
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT PATRICIA ONDROVIC
Interview Date: October 11, 200 1

P . ONDROVIC
CHRISTOPHER ECCLESTON: Today's date is October 11,2001. The time is 6:48 AM, and this is Christopher Eccleston of the New York City Fire Department. I am conducting an interview with the following individual...please state your name, rank, title, and assigned command area of the Fire Department of the City of New York, regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
P A TRICIA ONDROVIC: Patricia Ondrovic, shield 1634, EMTD, assigned to Battalion 8.
Were you assigned to the World Trade Center disaster on September 11,
A: Yes.
En route to the alarm, what did you see? A: I saw the two towers burning.
On arrival, did any civilians report anything to you? A: No.
Where did you park your vehicle when you arrived?
A: In the middle of Vesey Street between West and whatever is East of
Q:
Vesey.
Q: vehicle?
On this map, can you indicate with a number 1 where you parked your
Q:
Q:
Q:
A: Um...it was on Vesey between West and the West Side Highway so, it was, I'm not sure if it was this block or that block.

Q:
Q:
Q:
Q:
Q:
P. ONDROVIC
Okay, just approximate and put a number 1. A: I guess it was over here.
Okay, and what vehicle were you in? A: Vehicle 90.
Vehicle 90. Whom did you first report to and where?
A: On Vesey and West, in the middle of the block, there was an EMS captain.
I never got his name, I don't know who he was. I said I was 07 Charlie, he said park it overthere. ThatwasthelastIsawofhim.
Were you given a specific assignment?
A: No. Standby. Taketheequipmentoutofthevehicleandstandby.
Were you asked to assist any specific units? A: No.
Can you tell me what you did when you arrived at that location?
A: We took the stretcher and all the crash equipment out of the bus and we
formed up alongside one of the buildings on Vesey. I don't remember which number it was. We were in a line of several other ambulances. Next to us was a St. Claire's ambulance and a Cabrini Ambulance. I think there was only one other EMS ambulance on that block at the time I was there. That was vehicle 350, 08 David. I didn't know a lot of the people there, I didn't know the EMS captain that was there. There were no
patients that we could see at that point. I think they were trying to set up a triage in front of the building that the ambulances were all parked at. I guess we were supposed to be
Q:

P . ONDROVIC
the first on the wave to take patients out, and there was a Tex-Mex restaurant across the street. I went in to use the bathroom, that's where the Police were using their command center. I saw a police captain that I knew, and he came out to me. He looked absolutely terrified, he was shaking, he was pale, he was sweating. I looked at him, I said what's wrong? He said there's another plane headed our way, and they just blew up the Pentagon. I said, another plane? What are you talking about? I hadn't realized that planes had hit this, I thought they just set bombs off. I didn't realize when I got there that planes hit it. I said, what do you mean another plane? He said two planes hit the World Trade Center. So I'm thinking a little Cessena. How can a little Cessena do all that damage? He said no, 757s. I said big things? See I was there for about 25 minutes before I knew that planes had crashed into this. We just got assigned to do stand-by. We didn't know what the stand-by was. I mean, who thinks something like that? You just think they hit it again. So I said, what do you mean there's another one headed this way? He said, it's on the TV, there's a TV in there and it said that the Pentagon has been hit. Then we all went outside cause they had on the police radio that there was another plane headed in our direction, we all went outside and started looking up in the sky. Then the EMS captain said everyone grab your equipment, get to your vehicles and stay with your vehicles. My partner and I grabbed our stretcher, went to put it in the back of our vehicle, and at that time, I think it was the lobby of the building behind us blew out. Everybody started running, I didn't see him again that day. He got thrown one way, I got

P. ONDROVIC
thrown the other way. I started running towards the West Side Highway, and there was another building on the corner, I guess it was a federal building, cause it was all the green and gray uniforms with the Smokey the Bear hats, the cops in there. I went to run in the lobby cause all of a sudden you couldn't see anything. There was smoke, there was debris, there was everything flying around. I ran into the lobby cause I had no idea what had happened and the cops that were in there were telling everybody get out, get out, get out. Where are you gonna go? Stuffs blowing up. So I ran back out and I started running west again. At that point, there was a car on the corner of I think I was here at that point, on the West Side Highway.
West Side Highway and Vesey?
A: And Vesey, yeah. I was still on Vesey, cause the building that blew up on
me was on Vesey, it was on the corner next to the West Side Highway. Cause I know I was running west, I didn't run that way. Thank God, I would have been dead had I run the other way. But I ran towards the West Side Highway, and I kept running up Vesey. As I was running up Vesey, the first car blew up on me on the corner of Vessey and the West Side Highway. That set my turnout coat on fire, that set my hair on fire, and that set my feet on fire. I kept running. I got news for you, those turn out coats need to be called burn out coats, cause this thing caught up in flames. They cut two inches off my hair in less that two minutes, my coat was completely engulfed, and that was the only way I could see where I was running at that point, because I had a glow from my coat.
Q:

P. ONDROVIC
There's hundreds of cops all running up there, and I ended up running through this park, and I couldn't even see where I was running anymore. I kept running North.
Q: Through North Park?
A: I guess that's North Park. It's a big green, grassy area, and there's nothing there. As I was running up here, two or three more cars exploded on me. They weren't near any buildings at that point, they were just parked on the street. The traffic guys hadn't gotten a chance to tow anything yet, cause this was all during the first hour I guess ofthisthinghappening. Sotherewerestillcarsparkedonthestreetthatwerecompletely independent of that. Three cars blew up on me, stuff was being thrown. I went home all bruised that day. Thank God it was only bruises. I just ran into this park along with a bunch of other people, and stuff was still blowing up, I don't think I looked back, but you couldn't see anything, everything was just black. I was running and I was falling over people, cause people were crawling on the ground cause they couldn't see anymore. I just kept on running north. I could smell water, so I just kept on running towards the water, cause I knew that my coat was on fire, and I figured well, if I can see a boat over the water, I'm just gonna jump onto the boat and take that thing to Jersey, cause no one wants to blow up Jersey. Stuff is still blowing up behind me, as I'm running. I can hear stuff exploding. I could hear rumbling, the street under me was moving like I was in an earthquake. I've been in those, so I know what they feel like. It felt like an earthquake. There was no where safe to go. As I was running north in this park, and then I could start seeing again a little bit, and I just kept looking in the sky. Cause the captain was saying

P. ONDROVIC
there's another plane heading in our direction, I was looking for another plane. I saw something in the sky, it was a plane, but it was way out. It looked like it was over Jersey or something, then it wasn't there anymore. I saw a small fireball, and it was gone. I saw twootherplanes. Onecameinoneway,andtheothercameintheotherway,andthere was a plane in the middle that was way far off in the distance. Then the plane in the middle just disappeared into a little fire ball. It looked like the size of a golf ball from where I could see it. And the other two planes veered off into opposite directions. I just kept on running north. About fifteen blocks later, I had no idea that that was just the first tower that had come down. I had no idea at that time that that's what that was, and the other buildings were being affected, of course, by that building falling. I found another ambulance, I believe it was the 08 Adam, because it was Valdivia and Jose Perez. Joseph Valdivia used to be my partner on tour 3, and when I finally caught up to them, I told them what was happening. I told them whatever you do, don't go back that way cause they just blew up triage. I thought that they blew up our triage sector, cause that's where the command was and everything. That was the only thing that I had to go by, everybody that was there was gone. Cause a couple of the police officers that are now missing are guys that I had known, and that's where they were. The paramedic from Cabrini, that's where he was. I was just talking to him 20 minutes before everything blew up. I don't know where he ran, I don't know if he ran the wrong way, cause I know I ran the right way. If you ran the opposite way, you were dead. As I got like 15, 20 blocks away, now I'm on the West Side Highway cause I came out of this park and I found the other

P . ONDROVIC
ambulance. I saw my ex-partner, and I said get in this thing and drive it to Westchester.
I told him get the hell out of the city. Get everyone was can get in this, I said shit's still blowing up down there. Whatever you do, don't go in that direction, start driving north. He was like, looking at me like I was insane. Cause I don't know if anyone saw what had happened. All you could see was black smoke and that's all I can see at that point. Now I'm in an area where all the reporters are coming up to me and asking what had
happened, and I said I don't thinking I'm allowed to talk about it. Cause I don't know what happened, and I wasn't gonna tell anybody. You know, it was surreal, like it wasn't reallyhappening. SothenanEMSLieutenantcomesover,heseesmestandingwith8 Adam, and he says okay, you guys are gonna go three blocks south. I looked at him, and I said are you out of your mind? I found another guy from 8 David, Charles Gschlecht and we found each other as we were running. He couldn't find his partner, and I couldn't find mine, so we kind of synched up together, cause at least we knew each other and it's like, okay, we're okay. He said I can't find my partner. I said I can't find mine either, I think he got blown the wrong way. This guy was telling me that his partner went back in to help somebody, and that was the last we saw of either of them for awhile. That was the last I saw my partner for six whole days, cause I didn't come back to work after that.
Who was the lieutenant you saw, do you know?
A: Yeah, Bobby Deleon. Bobby Deleon comes up to me, and I know him
cause he used to be a union rep up in the Bronx when I worked up there a million years
Q:

P. ONDROVIC
ago, he tells us to take the vehicle, put me and Charles in the back of the vehicle and go three blocks south. Charles told him, are you out of your mind? We're not safe where we are, let alone three blocks south. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know. Get in the ambulance and go three blocks south. At that point I got really upset. I said, do you realize they just blew up our triage sector? Everybody back there is dead, everybody back there is gone. There is no reason for us to go back there, we don't have the proper protective equipment, we don't have the proper vehicles. There's no way I'm going back there, there's no reason to go back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, don't be hysterical, just go back three blocks south. I'm not going three blocks south, he's not going three blocks south, this ambulance is not going three blocks south. Sean started telling him we're not safe where we are now, and we were fifteen blocks away. It was certainly not safe there. He was the whole time saying...cause at that point I was screaming at him, cause he wasn't in there. We were telling him what we saw, and he just wouldn't listen. Yeah, yeah, 1 know.
hadn't realized that the first tower had fallen. f
After 1 found out what actually

P . ONDROVIC
happened, cause I found that out about a week ago, that that's what I ran from. So then, I think it was an EMS chief, I'm not sure who it was. Now more people were starting to come to this location, and he says okay, here's what we're gonna do...everybody's gonna go back down that way on the West Side Highway, and it's okay cause we have a police escort.
Q: Back south?
A: Back south on the West Side Highway, it's be okay cause we have a police escort. I don't want any free-lancing, we're all gonna go back in a nice orderly fashion. At that point my chest started to hurt, I couldn't breathe cause all I was breathing in was this black crap, I started coughing up all this black crap, all this stuff that looked like goo, and if I had to run another 15 blocks, I would have been dead.
There was no way I could do it. I saw Lieutenant Hanlon, who is a lieutenant out of this station at that point, and I sat in the back of the ambulance. I started getting really scared, and really upset, cause people were telling me to go back in and die. There was nothing else they were telling me to do at that point, cause that was all that was gonna happen.
So I sat in the back of the ambulance, I was coughing up, I was coughing up. Everyone kept asking me do you want oxygen? I was like no, I don't want it to get pushed down, I want to bring it up. I took some cold water, I put it on my face, I tried to cough up into it, andmychestreallystartedhurting. Thenmyleftarmstartedhurting,thenthewholeleft side of my body started hurting, and I was like no, there's no way this is gonna happen. Lieutenant Hanlon came over to me and said are you okay? I said no, and I don't

P . ONDROVIC
know where my partner is. At that point I was crying cause I had no idea where my partner was, I thought I was having a goddamn heart attack, and these people are telling me to go back in. So then when this EMS chief said what we're gonna do I said no, I have chest pain, I want to go to the hospital. So 8 Adam took me to the hospital, they took me to St. Vincent's. At the time we were setting up, getting ready to take me out, they took my blood pressure, which was a little high at the time, it's never been before in my life, but I think that's a good time for it to be high.
Q: Did you take something?
A: They put me on oxygen, put me in the stretcher. As they put me in the stretcher, somebody came over the EMS radio, said that the North Tower is leaning. As we started driving off, we saw the second tower fall. As we're driving away, debris is hitting the back of the ambulance. We were now about 20 blocks away, debris was hitting the back of the ambulance as we were watching this thing come down, it was just this huge cloud. It was me and Jose Perez in the back of the bus saying, I can't believe we're seeing this. When we saw the towers start coming, I took the oxygen off my face, me and Jose are yelling up to the front to Joe just drive. Put your foot on the floor and drive, drive as fast as you can out of here, it's coming down. Joe was like, I know I see it, and he had his foot on the floor, which meant we were going 30 miles an hour. Stuff was still hitting the back of the ambulance. All I kept thinking of is if this much crap is hitting the back of the bus and we're 20 blocks away, this lieutenant wanted us to go 3 blocks south, and I'm thinking what happened to everybody who listened to this chief

P . ONDROVIC
and went back? I don't even know if they got a chance to go back. You know? Also, after I was running, I remember running, and I remember somebody yelling on the radio MayDay,MayDay,I'mtrapped!OvertheEMSradio.IwasthinkingMayDay? That's not a term we use, you know 10-13 or 85 forthwith, but somebody's yelling May Day, I'm trapped. Then you heard this loud buzz, and you didn't hear anymore transmissions after that until I would venture to guess it was 20 minutes to a half our later, and the first thing I remember hearing was somebody saying the North Tower is leaning. Within five minutes of that statement, the second tower came down. I spent the rest of my day at St. Vincent's hospital.
Okay, is there anything else you would like to add to this?
A: I don't know if it matters, but I took the next three days off after that. I
okay with it until the lieutenant wouldn't listen to me, and would not understand that it was dangerous to go back in. He wouldn't accept that from me or the other guy that was with me. So I took the next three days off sick. During that time I went to see two counselors, one that was set-up by the union. Cause needless to say, like everyone else in the city, I did not sleep, I was having nightmares, I think the first full meal I ate was
. Then I went to go see an internist cause I started walking down the street
Q:

P. ONDROVIC
and all of a sudden, I couldn't breathe. I was trying to get back in the swing of things, 1
. His statements to two of my co-workers, as well as a lieutenant was, it's part of the job. If I can't handle the job, I shouldn't have it. I don't think what any of us responded to that day was par>t of anyone's job, let alone ours. That was a military operation. Of course, what are you gonna do? It could have been my day off. I could have been shopping at Border's Books.
. I don't think anyone's ever been exposed to something like this before here. Of course not, but we all know EMS has a high rate of suicide. Not saying that that's gonna be my case cause no, I refuse, I wouldn't let anybody push me to that corner.
I'm glad to hear that.
Q:

P. ONDROVIC
A: But,thisiswhathappens. ThisisoneofthereasonsthatIpushedupmy resignation date a lot quicker. Cause I was trying to hold out for another 8 months, as soon I can get another job I'm the hell outta here. It's not because of this event, cause other events like this will happen whether I'm on duty or off, it's the way I've been treated since.
I thank you very much for speaking to me, the time is 7:08 and this concludes the interview.
Q:

FILE NO 9110049
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER DEAN COUTSOUROS
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 11 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY NANCY FRANCIS

COUTSOUROS
MR FELLER TODAYS DATE IS OCTOBER 11TH 2001 THE TIME NOW IS 1250 HOURS AND THIS IS MONTY FEILER OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME RANK AND COMMAND FIREFIGHTER COUTSOUROS DEAN COUTSOUROS
FIREFIGHTER 2ND GRADE ENGINE 220
MR FELLER OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE
DEPARTMENT WERE CONDUCTING THE INTERVIEW AT THE
LIEUTENANTS UFFICE UF ENGINE 220 THE INTERVIEW IS
REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001 GO AHEAD
OKAY WE ARRIVED WE CAME OVER THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE AND WE WOUND UP ON THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY JUST NORTH OF BUILDING WORLD TRADE CENTER NO WE PROCEEDED TO GRAB CYLINDERS AND ALL OUR GEAR AND WE MARCHED DOWN THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY TO LIBERTY STREET
WHERE THE PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY IS UNDER THE PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY WE MET UP WITH CHIEF THE CHIEF GAVE MY
CAPTAIN ORDERS FOR US TO GO INTO WORLD TRADE CENTER WE WENT TO THE PARKING LOT DIRECTLY ACROSS
FROM THE WORLD TRADE CENTER THERE WAS WHOLE BUNCH OF DEBRIS COMING DOWN ON LIBERTY STREET WHICH PREVENTED

COUTSOUROS
US FROM WALKING DOWN LIBERTY AND WE GOT IN FRONT OF 90 WEST STREET WE HELD UP THERE FOR FEW MINUTES
UNDERNEATH THE SCAFFOLDING TO REASSESS THE SITUATION HOW WE WERE GOING TO GET INTO THE BUILDING THERE WAS ALL KINDS OF HUMAN DEBRIS THE LANDING GEAR OF THE AIRCRAFT WAS IN THAT PARKING LOT THERE IT WAS RIGHT NEAR US THERE WAS ALL KIND OF STUFF ALL OVER THE FLOOR OTHER COMPANIES NEAR US THINK WERE 205 AND THERE WAS TRUCK COMPANY THERE BUT IM NOT REALLY SURE WHO IT WAS IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN 117
THE TUUK US WE WENT THRUUGH 90 WEST STREET WE WENT THROUGH THE FRONT DOOR WE CAME OUT THE
BACK DOOR THE CAPTAIN WAS STEPHEN GRABHER HE WAS COVERING CAPTAIN THAT DAY HIM AND OWEN CARLOCK MADE IT BEHIND THE BANKERS TRUST BUILDING WAS DIRECTLY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET ON WASHINGTON STREET AND THERE WERE TWO GUYS THREE GUYS BEHIND ME AND WAS
IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET AND THATS WHEN THE
RIGHT
TOWER STARTED TO COME HAPPENED TO BE LOOKING UP AT IT AND FROM THE FIRE FLOOR DOWN IT WAS JUST LIKE REALLY LOUD CRACKLING NOISE IT SOUNDED LIKE MILLION FIRECRACKERS AND JUST WAVE RIGHT FROM THE FIRE FLOOR DOWN JUST WAVE THAT STARTED TO COME DOWN
DO YOU KNOW WHO THE TWO FIREFIGHTERS WERE

COUTSOUROS
THAT WERE WITH
PLUNKETT HAPPENED TO RUN STRAIGHT AHEAD AND WENT EAST AND GOT BEHIND THE BANKERS TRUST BUILDING WHICH HAS LITTLE OVERHANG AND THERES STEEL COLUMNS HOLDING UP THE OVERHANG WE TUCKED IN BEHIND THAT OVERHANG THERE GEORGE MARSH AND EDDIE PLUNKETT AND MIKE SCHROECK ACTUALLY STAYED BEHIND 90 WEST BECAUSE BY THAT TIME IT WAS ALREADY COMING DOWN THEY HAD NO CHANCE TO CROSS THE STREET WASHINGTON STREET WE TUCKED IN BEHIND THIS BUILDING ND IN SECUNDS IT NIGHTTIRCIE
THE DIRT WAS OVER MY HEAD WAS CHEWING IT TRYING TO GET SOME AIR WE DIDNT KNOW WHAT REALLY WAS GOING
ON SAW THE BUILDING COME DOWN BUT THINK WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO ACTUALLY SAW IT COME DOWN
AS SOON AS EVERYTHING COLLAPSED THAT LOUD RUMBLE EVERYTHING COLLAPSED OWEN CARLOCK HANDED ME AN AX THE CAPTAIN SCREAMED WEVE GOT TO GET INSIDE THIS
BUILDING TOOK AN AX AND SMASHED THE WINDOW BUT
IT WAS JUST DUMMY PANEL IT WAS WALL BEHIND IT SMASHED THE NEXT WINDOW NO LUCK THREW MY HELMET OFF PUT MY FACE PIECE ON WHICH WAS FILLED WITH DEBRIS SHOOK IT OUT PUT MY FACE PIECE ON WE WENT WEST WE WENT BACK TO WASHINGTON STREET SEARCHED THIS
YOU
RIGHT MIKE SCHROECK GEORGE MARSH AND EDDIE

COUTSOUROS
WALL LEFT FOR DOOR AND OVER HERE THERE IS SERVICE ENTRANCE AND WE WOUND UP GETTING IN THE DOOR HERE WE ALL GOT IN THERE
DID YOU HOOK UP BACK WITH THE OTHER FIREFIGHTERS
NOT AS OF YET
OKAY
ME OWEN AND THE CAPTAIN WOUND UP GETTING IN HERE PLUS COUPLE OTHER GUYS THERE WAS LIKE TRUCK UNIT GUYS DONT EVEN KNOW WHO THEY WERE AND WE WUUND UP GETTING IN THERE THEN LIKE UFLCE THE DIRT SETTLED THERE WAS STILL LOT OF DUST BUT ONCE THE DIRT SETTLED LIKE FEW MINUTES WE WOUND UP HOOKING UP BACK WITH THE OTHER THREE GUYS WE MET THEM IN ITS LIKE LITTLE COURTYARD RIGHT THERE ON THE SIDE OF THIS BUILDING
WE REGROUPED WE GOT OUR STUFF TOGETHER AND WE WENT BACK OUT TO THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY RIGHT ABOUT
HERE AND WE WERE STARTING TO WALK WE WANTED TO GET NORTH OF THE TOWERS WE WERE TRYING TO GET BACK UP
AROUND HERE AND RIGHT ABOUT HERE ON ALBANY AND WASHINGTON IS WHEN THE FIRST BUILDING CAME DOWN AND
THE DEBRIS CLOUD STARTED COMING SO WE STARTED GOING SOUTH ON THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY AND WE GOT INTO THIS

COUTSOUROS
BUILDING RIGHT HERE WHICH THINK IS THE MILLENIUM HILTON OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT THIS BUILDING HAS REVOLVING DOORS
BETWEEN ALBANY AND CARLISLE
RIGHT THAT BUILDING RIGHT THERE AS THE DEBRIS CLOUD CAME DOWN WE GOT COVERED IN IT BUT KNEW WAS FACING EAST
THATS THE ONE IN THE HOTEL RIGHT
OKAY
THERE REVULVING DUUR ND THE
LIGHT THROUGH IT AND WE WOUND UP ALL GETTING IN THERE EXCEPT FOR MIKE SCHROECK HE WENT RUNNING DOWN THIS
WAY HE JUST TOOK OFF DOWN THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY THERE WAS ALL PEOPLE IN THERE WE GOT SOME WATER SOME GUY HAD DONT KNOW WHERE IT CAME FROM RED CROSS MAYBE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT THERE WAS JUST BARREL OF WATER ON ICE OUT OF NOWHERE WE HELPED PEOPLE GET DOWN OUT OF THIS BUILDING AFTER IT ALL SETTLED AND ALL THE CAPTAIN WENT AND SEARCHED FOR MIKE SCHROECK HE DIDNT KNOW WHERE HE WAS WE LOST HIM AT THAT POINT WE WERE HELPING PEOPLE COME THIS WAY AND GETTING THEM SOUTH TOWARDS THE BATTERY TUNNEL
AFTER THAT WE REGROUPED ONCE AGAIN WE ALL

COUTSOUROS
GOT EVERYBODY WE GOT MIKE SCHROECK BACK TOGETHER WE ALL STAYED AS UNIT AND WE CROSSED THE WEST SIDE
HIGHWAY WE WENT AROUND WHATEVER THAT STREET IS THAT CROSSES OVER WE CROSSED THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY AND THERE WERE COUPLE OF CAR FIRES AND SOME PAPER AND DEBRIS THERE AND WE LEFT GEORGE MARSH THERE HES NPO WE LEFT HIM THERE TO PUMP WATER FOR THINK IT WAS 210 THINK WAS THE ENGINE AND HE PUMPED WATER FOR THEM WE LEFT HIM AND WE WENT AROUND TO LETS SEE
WHERE IS THIS NOTCH HERE THATS THE HCTRBUR
RIGHT THIS IS WHERE WE WOUND UP
THEN YOU HAD TO GO DOWN EAST END AVENUE
FIRE BUILDING WE STARTED STRETCHING ALL THE LENGTHS THAT THE FIREBOAT HAD THROUGH GUESS ITS THE MERRILL
LYNCH BUILDING THE WINTER GARDEN WAS THAT HALF DOME WAS COLLAPSED OVER HERE WE STARTED STRETCHING
LINES EVERYTHING THE FIREBOAT HAD THROUGH THIS
MERRILL LYNCH BUILDING WE GOT LIKE HALFWAY BUT THIS WHOLE SIDE OF THE BUILDING WAS COLLAPSED IT WAS
LITTLE SCARY WE STARTED STRETCHING LINES AND HOOKING
EXACTLY
RIGHT
EAST END ACTUALLY WE PUT FIRE OUT IN BUILDING THATS RIGHT THERE WE WENT THROUGH HERE THERE WAS
WE WENT AROUND HERE WE CAME DOWN

COUTSOUROS
UP HOSE AND THEN ALL OF SUDDEN COMPANY CAME
WALKING OVER WITH FIREFIGHTER IN STOKES BASKET AND HIS HEAD WAS CRUSHED PRETTY BAD SO WE TOOK THE STOKES
BASKET AND WE WENT DOWN THERES RAMP HERE YOU LOADED HIM ON THE BOAT
WE LOADED HIM ON THE FIREBOAT AND THE FIREBOAT TOOK OFF NOW OUR LINE IS DEAD OVER HERE THERE WAS GAS LEAK THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WAS TELLING EVERYBODY TO GET OUT OF THE AREA BLAH BLAH BLAH
YUU JUST VERBALIZE THE STREET CURNER
THERE
OKAY WE WENT OVER GUESS WORLD FINANCIAL MERRILL LYNCH IS VESEY AND NORTH END THAT CORNER BUILDING WE WENT DOWN THIS STREET WHICH ISNT MARKED HERE WHATEVER IT IS THE CAPTAIN TOLD OWEN CARLOCK AND EDDIE PLUNKETT TO GO GET OUR RIG WHICH IS RIGHT HERE AT THIS TIME WE WERE GOING TO BRING OUR RIG BACK HERE AND PUMP WATER THAT WAS THE LAST SAW OF THEM THEYRE ALIVE AND EVERYTHING BUT WE DIDNT
SEE THEM THE WE
PLAZA RIGHT THE BUILDING
REST OF THE DAY
CAME BACK OVER HERE RIGHT BY GATEWAY
ON THIS CORNER OF LIBERTY DONT KNOW THERE BUT ITS RESIDENTIAL BUILDING

COUTSOUROS
WE WERE SITTING THERE TAKING BLOW WASHING OUR EYES OUT BECAUSE OUR EYES WERE BLEEDING AND AS WE RE
SITTING THERE WITH OUR COATS OFF LOOK UP AND BLACK SMOKE STARTS BILLOWING OUT OF THE 9TH FLOOR WINDOW SO THE CAPTAIN GOES ALL RIGHT GET YOUR GEAR ON
SO ITS NOW JUST ME CAPTAIN STEVE GRABHER MIKE SCHROECK AND MYSELF THE THREE OF US THERE WAS
LIKE LOANER RIG ONE OF THOSE RIGS FROM THE ROCK OR WHATEVER IT WAS SOMETHING 515 RIG WE TESTED THE
HYDRANT AND THERE WAS NO WATER THIS GUY JOHN ORLOFF BUFFRLU FRURA 201 HES LIEUTENANT THE
SAYS ALL RIGHT COME ON GUYS WE GRABBED TWO CANS OFF THAT RIG AND WE WALKED UP TO THE 9TH FLOOR TO THAT
APARTMENT THERE WAS SOMEONE THERE ALREADY FORCED THE DOOR WE WENT IN WITH THE CANS TO TRY TO SEE WHAT WE COULD DO IT WAS ALREADY VENTED SO IT WAS JUST LOT OF FLAME NOT TOO MUCH SMOKE NOT TOO BAD WE WENT IN WITH THE CANS IT DID NOTHING
WE WENT BACK DOWN TO THE 8TH FLOOR AND BUFFALO FIREMAN ORLOFF WAS PULLING UP HE DROPPED CLOROX BOTTLE HE WAS PULLING UP TWO LENGTHS OF TWO AND HALF TO HOOK TO THE STANDPIPE GUY IN FRONT OF ME GRABBED NOZZLE HAD KNIFE WAS CUTTING THE ROPE OFF THE NOZZLE WE WENT UP TO THE 9TH FLOOR WE

COUTSOUROS
GOT THERE AND FIGURED ID BACK THIS GUY UP AND HE JUST HANDED ME THE NOZZLE NOW REALIZED HE DIDNT HAVE MASK SO MASKED UP GOT THE NOZZLE WENT IN THEY HOOKED UP ONE LENGTH FROM LIKE THE STANDPIPE ON THAT FLOOR THEY BROKE IT ONE LENGTH AND THAT WAS IT IT WAS RIGHT THERE THE APARTMENT WAS RIGHT NEXT TO THE STANDPIPE
WENT IN KNOCKED DOWN TWO ROOMS OF FIRE HAD ABSOLUTELY NO PRESSURE THERE WAS COUCH NEXT TO
ME THAT WAS BURNING LIKE DIRECTLY BY MY SHOULDER BUT EVERY TIRAE TURNED THE NUZZLE CUTTING UFF RAY
WATER HAD ABSOLUTELY NO PRESSURE SO PUSHED THE COUCH OUT OF THE WAY KNOCKED DOWN THE TWO ROOMS
STOOD UP GOT LITTLE PAST IT AND TURNED AROUND AND HIT THE COUCH JUST AS FINISHED HITTING THAT AREA RIGHT THERE TURNED AROUND LITTLE CORNER FLARED UP AGAIN AND THEN RAN OUT OF WATER THERE WAS NO WATER BECAUSE THE GRAVITY TANK MUST HAVE TOOK HIT OR WHATEVER OR JUST THAT WAS IT WOUND UP SHAKING THE HOSE TO PUT THE REST OF THE FIRE OUT ONCE THERE WAS NO MORE FLAME WE SHUT DOWN CAME BACK OUT THE
CAPTAIN WAS SEARCHING ALL THE APARTMENTS ON THAT FLOOR AND MIKE SCHROECK WE CAME BACK OUT WE REGROUPED AND
WE STARTED HEADING DOWN THE STAIRS
10

WAS
NO HE BACKED ME UP HAVE NO IDEA WHO HE
WAS HE ON DUTY OR OFF DUTY
DONT KNOW HE HAD MASK SO ITS HARD
COUTSOUROS
THE FIREFIGHTER THAT YOU HACKED UP DO YOU KNOW WHO THAT WAS
TO TELL BECAUSE MASKS WERE BEING TRADED GOD KNOWS DIDNT EVEN KNOW WHAT COMPANY HE WAS FROM HE MIGHT HAVE BEEN FROM 201 BECAUSE THERE WAS BUNCH OF 201 GUYS UP THERE BUT REALLY DONT KNOW WHO HE WAS OR WHATEVER HAPPENED WE WERE JUST TRYING TU PUT THIS FIRE OUT WHICH WE DID
COMING DOWN THE STAIRS THE FLOOR WITH ALL THE SOOT AND GOOK ON OUR FEET AND STUFF IT WAS REALLY SLIPPERY FELL LIKE HALF LANDING ON MY BACK WE GOT TWO FLOORS DOWN ME AND THE CAPTAIN AND MIKE SCHROECK WE HEARD HIM FALL DOWN WHOLE FLIGHT OF STAIRS WE JUST HEARD BING BANG
WE GOT BACK DOWN IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING AT THAT POINT WE WERE PRETTY MUCH SPENT THIS IS
YOU KNOW ITS LATE IN THE AFTERNOON NOW THIS ISNT ALL
HAPPENING
ALL AT ONCE KNOW
THE TIME YOU KNOW WE WENT OVER TO THE END
11

12
THIS HAS GOT TO BE LIKE 300 330 AROUND
OKAY
AROUND 3O0ISH BECAUSE REMEMBER MAKING
COUTSOUROS
OF LIBERTY LIKE OVER HERE WELL ACTUALLY
WAS THIS TOWARDS LATE AFTERNOON OR EARLY
EVENING
THERE
PHONE CALL AT 230 BEFORE THAT IM NOT SURE
ITS NOT IMPORTANT
WE WENT DOWN BY THE WATER AND THAT WAS IT FOR
THE END UF US MY BACK HURT RAY SHUULDER ALL UF US WERE HURTING AND WE JUST LIKE ACTUALLY LAID THERE
WOUND UP MEETING UP WITH THIS GUY DAVE KOYLES FROM LADDER 122 WHO HAD JUST BEEN IN COLLAPSE IN THE MARRIOTT HE WAS IN THE VISTA IN THAT LOBBY WE
WOUND UP GETTING RIDE FROM CIVILIAN IN SUBURBAN BECAUSE WE WANTED TO GET TRIAGED WE COULDNT DO ANY MORE THATS IT WE GAVE OUR MASKS UP TO ANOTHER
COMPANY AND ME AND DAVE KOYLES WOUND UP GETTING RIDE FROM CIVILIAN DOWN WHERE ALL THE BOATS ARE WE GOT TRIAGED SOMEWHERE OVER HERE THEY WANTED TO TAKE US TO ELLIS ISLAND OR NEW JERSEY WHICH WE SAID WERE NEVER GOING TO GET HOME
FROM THERE WE WOUND UP GETTING UP FROM THERE

COUTSOUROS
WALKING AWAY SOME GUY WITH GOLF CART TOOK US DOWN TO LIKE BATTERY PARK FROM THERE TWO DETECTIVES THREW US IN THE BACK OF THEIR CAR AND THEY TOOK US TO THE STATEN ISLAND FERRY TERMINAL
BACK TO STATEN ISLAND
THEY GOT US IN AN AMBULANCE TO GO TO
METHODIST HOSPITAL WE BOTH WOUND UP IN METHODIST HOSPITAL THAT DAY AND THATS THE END OF MY STORY
WHEN YOU FIRST ARRIVED EN ROUTE TO THE SCENE DO YOU KNOW IF YOU WERE GIVEN ANY SPECIFIC LOCATIONS TO GU TU
DONT KNOW ABOUT THAT KNOW THAT IT WAS ABOUT TEN AFTER 900 WE WERE CROSSING THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE
SO THE FIRST BUILDING WAS HIT BY THAT TIME BOTH BUILDINGS WERE HIT AT THAT TIME WHEN
THE FIRST BUILDING WAS HIT ACTUALLY TOOK PICTURE FROM THE ROOF OF THE FIREHOUSE THEN THE SECOND PLANE
WENT IN AND THATS WHEN WE GOT CALLED IN ON THE FIFTH ALARM WE WENT
JUST TO PUT THINGS BIT WHERE WERE YOU WHEN
THE SECOND BUILDING COLLAPSED
WHEN THE SECOND BUILDING COLLAPSED WHICH WAS
TOWER WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY
13

COUTSOUROS
WAS ON THE SOUTHBOUND SIDE OF THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY
MAYBE ONE BLOCK AWAY ALBANY STREET
DID YOU HAVE RADIO WITH YOU
NO NOZZLE MAN DOES NOT HAVE RADIO BUT REALLY TOOK PICTURES ALWAYS KEEP DISPOSABLE CAMERA IN MY POCKET TOOK PICTURES COMING OVER THE BRIDGE AND JUST BEFORE CAME OVER THE BRIDGE TOOK
PICTURE OF THE CROWD AND IT HAPPENED TO CATCH CLOCK JUST BY THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE AND IT SAID ALMOST IT
WAS LIKE MAYBE EIGHT TEN AFTER 900 GOT PICTURE UUR RIG GUING UVER THE BRIDGE WHEN WE FIRST PULLED
INITIALLY YOU SAID THAT CHIEF DIRECTED YOU YES
DO YOU KNOW WHAT CHIEF THAT WAS
DO NOT KNOW NO IT WAS REALLY CHAOS AND MAYHEM AND WE WERE JUST WE DIDNT EVEN BRING
ROLL UPS OR ANYTHING BECAUSE WE FIGURED SO MANY COMPANIES WERE IN WE WERE JUST GOING UP AND RELIEVE COMPANY ON THE LINE TO PUT THIS FIRE OUT NEVER THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO COME DOWN
TOOK PICTURE RIGHT WHERE WE PARKED THE RIG
UP
TOOK PICTURE RIGHT UNDER THIS SCAFFOLDING OF 90 WEST STREET AND THAT WAS ABOUT IT TOOK PICTURES OF THE GUYS LATER ON AND STUFF LIKE THAT AND THE DEBRIS
14

COUTSOUROS
RIGHT
WE WERE TRYING WHAT THE CAPTAIN SAID HE
WANTED TO TAKE US AROUND WE WANTED TO ATTACK ON DIAGONAL TO GET INTO THE BUILDING BECAUSE THIS WAY AND THIS WAY EVERYTHING WAS JUST SO MANY JUMPERS AND DEBRIS FALLING ALL KINDS OF SHIT SO THERE WAS NO WAY TO GO DOWN LIBERTY STREET THERE WAS STUFF ALL AND WE JUST HEARD THAT JUMPER LANDED ON SOMEBODY RIGHT HERE SO WE WERENT GOING THIS WAY WE WOUND UP CHOOSING WIDER ROUTE AND WE DIDNT EVEN GET TO
YUU KNUW SUUFL WE STARTED UUT TH BUILDING
DOWN
OKAY IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU THINK IS IMPORTANT THAT YOUD LIKE TO ADD AT THIS TIME
THATS ABOUT IT
MR FELLER WERE GOING TO CONCLUDE THE INTERVIEW WANT TO THANK YOU ON BEHALF OF THE DEPARTMENT FOR PARTICIPATING IN THIS THE TIME NOW IS 1305 HOURS AND WELL CONCLUDE THE INTERVIEW
15

FILE NO 9110050
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW LIEUTENANT STEPHEN JEZYCKI
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 11 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

JEZYCKI
MR FELLER TODAYS DATE IS OCTOBER 11TH 2001 THE TIME NOW IS 1232 HOURS AND THIS IS MONTY FEILER OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME TITLE AND
COMMAND
LIEUTENANT JEZYCKI LIEUTENANT STEVE
BATTALION 57
MR FELLER OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE
DEPARTMENT
WERE CONDUCTING THE INTERVIEW IN THE
LIEUTENANTS OFFICE IN THE QUARTERS OF
ENGINE 220 THIS INTERVIEW IS REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
WOULD YOU RELATE YOUR INFORMATION
LIEUTENANT
MR FELLER IM SORRY ALSO PRESENT IS RICHARD DUN OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE
DEPARTMENT
IM SORRY GO AHEAD
ON THE MORNING OF SEPTEMBER 11TH FROM RIGHT ACROSS THE HARBOR ON STATEN ISLAND SAW
ASSIGNED
JEZYCKI

JEZYCKI
ONE OF THE TOWERS ON FIRE PROCEEDED HOME TO MY MOTHERS HOUSE TO GET IN TOUCH WITH MY SISTER WHO WE KNOW WORKS IN MANHATTAN SHE WORKED AT ONE LIBERTY PLAZA
SO WENT HOME TO FIND MY BROTHER
THERE WHO IS AN OFF DUTY LIEUTENANT MICHAEL JEZYCKI WHEN WE WENT IN TO GET IN TOUCH WITH MY
SISTER MY MOTHER INFORMED US THAT MY SISTER HAD CALLED AT 900 AND SAID THAT SHE WAS AT MEETING IN THE SOUTH TOWER ON THE 105 FLOOR THAT SHE WAS OKAY
AT THAT POINT ME AND MY BROTHER GRABBED
OUR GEAR KNOWING THAT THE BRIDGES WERE SHUT DOWN WE HEADED FOR THE STATEN ISLAND FERRY
WHICH IS FIVE MINUTES AWAY WE GOT ON THE FERRY BOAT WITH BUNCH OF OTHER OFF DUTY FIREMEN WE MET UP WITH LIEUTENANT BOB PERRETTA LIEUTENANT TOM PIGOTT AND FIREFIGHTER KEVIN KELLY
ON THE WAY OVER WE MADE OURSELVES
FIVE MAN TEAM WE WERE GOING TO PROCEED TO THE 90TH FLOOR BECAUSE THATS WHERE MY SISTER CALLED FROM ON THE WAY OVER WE GRABBED SOME ROPES OFF THE FERRY BOAT HAD COUPLE OF HAND TOOLS
AS THE FERRY WAS PULLING UP TO DOCK ON

JEZYCKI
THE MANHATTAN SIDE WE SAW THE SECOND COLLAPSE OF THE SECOND TOWER COME DOWN THOUGHT THAT WAS THE TOWER MY SISTER WAS IN IT ENDED UP BEING
THE OTHER WAY AROUND
AS SOON AS WE GET OFF THE FERRY WE
JUMPED ON BIG BLACK PICKUP TRUCK JEEP WITH BUNCH OF OTHER GUYS IT DROVE US RIGHT UP THE
WEST SIDE WE PULLED UP MAYBE TEN MINUTES AFTER THE SECOND COLLAPSE WOULD SAY THEREABOUTS
RAN INTO BATTALION CHIEF ARTIE
LAKIOTES SAFETY CHIEF WHO WAS TRYING TO GET LITTLE ORGANIZATION OF THE GUYS ON WEST STREET THERE HE TOLD US TO TAKE MANIFOLD DOWN TOWARDS THE WATER WE WERE GOING TO PUMP FROM BOAT
WE WERE TAKING THIS MANIFOLD TOWARDS THE WEST SIDE AND WE HEARD THAT THERE WAS FIREMAN TRAPPED THEN THEY CALLED FOR THE MANIFOLD BACK ON WEST STREET SO WE STARTED TO BRING THE MANIFOLD BACK WE PLACED IT DOWN ON WEST STREET
WE WENT IN THE DIRECTION OF WHERE THE FIREMAN WAS TRAPPED IT TURNED OUT BEING CHAUFFEUR FROM 65 ENGINE WHO WAS BURIED BENEATH

JEZYCKI
THE WALKWAY GOING OVER WEST STREET ON THE WORLD TRADE CENTER SIDE
BY LIBERTY STREET
YES LIBERTY AND WEST
THERE MUST HAVE BEEN DONT KNOW
15 GUYS WE MADE LINE WE WERE DIGGING THERE WERE THREE CAR FIRES RIGHT NEXT TO WHERE
THEY WERE DIGGING THE HEAT WAS SORT OF HAMPERING OUR DIGGING EFFORTS
WE ENDED UP FINDING AN OPERATING ENGINE THREE QUARTER LINE ON ANOTHER PILE WE PASSED IT
OVER MYSELF MY BROTHER MICHAEL AND KEVIN KELLY ENDED UP GETTING LINE RIGHT IN BETWEEN WHERE WE
WERE DIGGING AND THE CAR FIRES WE PUT KIND OF WATER CURTAIN UP IN ABOUT FIVE OR TEN MINUTES THE GUYS THAT WERE DIGGING WE WERE ABLE TO GET
THE CHAUFFEUR FROM 65 OUT
AT THAT POINT WE REALIZED WE WERE KIND
OF CLOSE TO SOME FALLING DEBRIS AND WE KIND OF BACKED OUT JUST REMEMBER THERE WAS
BATTALION CHIEF THERE SENIOR BATTALION CHIEF WHO THOUGHT MAYBE WAS KIND OF HAVING HEART ATTACK OR SOMETHING BECAUSE HE WAS HOLDING HIS CHEST AND HE WAS GOING DOWN

JEZYCKI
ON WEST STREET THERE WAS ABOUT THREE FEET OF WATER JUST REMEMBER GRABBING THE
CHIEF AND HELPED HIM ACROSS WE WADED THROUGH THE WATER ONTO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET AT THAT POINT WE JUST PROCEEDED NORTH ON WEST
WE WERE SORT OF DIGGING THROUGH THE DEBRIS FOR THE NEXT 10 OR 12 HOURS THAT WAS MY
DAY ON TUESDAY
THE CHAUFFEUR YOU MENTIONED
FROM 65
WAS HIS CONDITION
TELL YOU WHAT HAD MY BACK TO HIM AT THAT POINT BECAUSE WE HAD THE LINE GOING
JUST REMEMBER GLANCING OVER THE GUYS KIND OF CARRIED HIM OUT PASSED HIM OUT AND CARRIED HIM AWAY AT THAT POINT SHUT THE LINE AND THATS WHEN SAW THAT CHIEF THOUGHT HE WAS HAVING HEART ATTACK WE ENDED UP SITTING HIM DOWN HE SAID THAT HE WAS FINE
WE MOVED NORTH ON WEST STREET AFTER
THAT
THE CHAUFFEURS NAME WERE YOU ABLE TO OBTAIN THE CHAUFFEURS NAME
NEVER GOT HIS NAME BUT HE WAS

JEZYCKI
CHAUFFEUR FROM 65 AND BELIEVE HE WAS CALLING SAYING WHERE HE WAS THATS HOW GUYS KNEW SOMEBODY ELSE WITH RADIO AND THATS HOW THEY HONED IN ON HIM HE WAS EITHER CALLING ON
RADIO OR THEY SAID THEY HEARD HIM CALLING
WHAT ABOUT THE CHIEF DO YOU KNOW HIS
NAME
YOU
DIDNT GET HIS NAME EITHER NO
DID YOU HAVE ANY RADIO EQUIPMENT WITH
NO WE HAD NO RADIO EQUIPMENT JUST LIKE SAID HAND TOOLS HAD MAUL THAT
GRABBED FROM HOME AN OLD HALLIGAN THAT HAD AT HOME AND GRABBED THOSE HAND TOOLS WE CUT
ROPES OFF THE FERRY BOAT BOBBY PERRETTA HAD SCOTT MASK
ON OUR WAY UP WEST STREET WHERE THE
JEEP DROPPED US OFF WE WERE WALKING UP WEST AND WE WERE TAKING WHATEVER WE COULD OFF OF
OTHER VEHICLES
OTHER DEPARTMENT VEHICLES THAT WERE
PARKED ALONG WEST WE ENDED UP GRABBING RABBIT TOOL AND COUPLE OTHER HAND TOOLS
DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT COMPANIES YOU SAW

THERE
JEZYCKI
NO CANT RECALL THEIR NUMBERS BECAUSE GUESS THE FRAME OF MIND WAS IN
THERE WERE ENGINE COMPANIES ALONG THERE NOT LADDER COMPANIES THATS WHAT REMEMBER SEEING PUMPERS NOT LADDER TRUCKS
DID YOU EVER ENTER ANY OF THE
BUILDINGS WHEN YOU GOT THERE THINK YOU SAID BOTH OF THEM COLLAPSED
YEAH WHEN GOT THERE THE SECOND ONE ALREADY CAME DOWN THERE WAS REALLY NOT MANY
BUILDINGS TO ENTER OTHER THAN THE SURROUNDING ONES WHICH WE WERE CONCENTRATING OUR EFFORTS WHERE THE TRADE CENTER STOOD IN THAT PILE OF
DEBRIS THERE
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU THINK
IS IMPORTANT ANY RECOLLECTIONS OF ANY
FIREFIGHTERS THAT YOU MAY HAVE SEEN EMS PEOPLE CIVILIANS THAT YOU MAY HAVE HELPED
AT THAT POINT LIKE SAID WE WERE IN THAT AREA WE DID MAKE OUR WAY AROUND TOWARDS THE WATER AND CAME UP ON DONT KNOW IF ITS CHAMBERS VESEY FEW BLOCKS NORTH WE WERE STARTING TO GATHER OVER THERE AND WE HEARD THAT

THERE WAS BUILDING THIS WAS
JEZYCKI
IN DANGER OF COLLAPSE COUPLE HOURS LATER MAYBE IT WAS ON THAT BLOCK
AND THAT HUGE BUILDING
WHEN THAT CAME DOWN WE ALL RAN DOWN TO THE WEST
SIDE WHEN THAT OTHER BUILDING CAME DOWN AND WE WENT BACK TO WHERE THE TRADE CENTER WAS WE JUST
SAID LETS GO BACK OVER THERE WE WERE KIND OF
LOOKING DIGGING HOPING MAYBE
YOU STAYED WITH THE FOUR PEOPLE THAT
YOU MENTIONED
WE WERE PRETTY MUCH TOGETHER MOST OF
THE DAY WAS THERE TILL AROUND MIDNIGHT AT THAT POINT IT WAS JUST ME AND MY BROTHER WE SPLIT UP FROM THE OTHER THREE GUYS SOMETIME DURING THE DAY
YOU SAID HES ON THE JOB TOO YEAH
WHERE DOES HE WORK
HES ASSIGNED TO THE 8TH DIVISION
COVERING LIEUTENANT
IF THERES NOTHING ELSE WANT TO
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME
MR FELLER WELL CONCLUDE AT THE
INTERVIEW AT 1242 HOURS

FILE NO 9110051
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER MICHAEL SCHROECK
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 11 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY NANCY FRANCIS

SCHROECK
MR FELLER TODAYS DATE IS OCTOBER 11TH 2001 THE TIME NOW IS 1313 HOURS AND THIS IS MONTY FEILER OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
COMMAND
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME RANK AND ASSIGNED
FIREFIGHTER SCHROECK FIREFIGHTER MICHAEL
SCHROECK ENGINE 220 5TH GRADE
MR FELLER OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE
DEPARTMENT WERE INTERVIEWINQ AT THE QUARTERS OF ENGINE 220 REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH
MR FELLER AND
LIEUTENANT JEZYCKI LIEUTENANT JEZYCKI
IF YOU CAN JUST GIVE ME SCENARIO OF WHAT OCCURRED THAT MORNING
OKAY CAN RECALL SITTING IN HOUSE WATCH
AND SEEING THE FIRST PLANE HIT THATS WHERE TRUCK
COMPANY 122 WAS HEADING OUT THE DOOR RESPONDING TO
TH STAGING AR BY TH BATT TUNN
LATER THE SECOND PLANE HIT AND WE WERE DISPATCHED OVER
THERE
2001 ALSO PRESENT
MR DUN RICHARD DUN
IS

SCHROECK
TAKING THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE YOU COULD SEE THE SMOKE FLAMES FROM THAT VIEW WOULD SAY LOT OF CHAOS PEOPLE RUNNING THE BRIDGES WERE PACKED WERE CONTINUING THROUGH WE PARKED AROUND GUESS THATS
THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY WEST OF VESEY THERE AND GUESS THATS WHERE WE PARKED GRABBED OUR GEAR AND HEADED TOWARDS LIBERTY LOOKING FOR GUESS THE STAGING AREA WHERE GUESS WE WERE SUPPOSED TO GET OUR ORDERS
DID YOU MEET AN OFFICER AT LIBERTY OR DID
YOUR CAPTAIN SPEAK TO AN OFFICER
YES THE CAPTAIN SPOKE TO QUESS
REALLY DONT RECALL TO BE HONEST JUST GUESS CAUGHT UP IN THE WHOLE THING SEEING WHAT WE SAW AND GUESS
WAS JUST FOLLOWING HIM
YOU SAID YOU WERE ON HOUSE WATCH THAT
MORNING
RECALL IF THE HOUSE
YES WAS IN THE HOUSE WATCH DONT
HAD HOUSE WATCH THAT MORNING BUT WAS IN
WATCH AT THAT TIME
WHEN THE FIRST PLANE HIT YOU SAID YOU SAW IT OR YOU HEARD IT
GU WHERE WAS VIEWING IT FOR THE FIRST TIME
CALLID UT
CHANNEL FOX WHERE IT WAS BEING SHOWN AND THATS
PUT

SCHROECK
DO YOU RECALL GETTING ANY PHONE CALLS OR RADIO TRANSMISSIONS
NO DONT
OKAY YOU RESPONDED BEFORE THE SECOND PLANE STRUCK OR AFTERWARDS
STRUCK
BELIEVE IT WAS WHEN THE SECOND PLANE
THATS WHEN YOUR UNIT YOUR ENGINE WAS CALLED
OUT
YES
DO YOU REMEMBER WHO WAS ON THE ENQINE WITH
WHO WAS FROM 122 WE HAD PLUNKETT EDWARD PLUNKETT EDMUND PLUNKETT ONE MORE MEMBER
WERE THEY ON DUTY PERSONNEL
WELL IT WAS IN BETWEEN THE TOUR CHANGE AND
SO
ON THE WAY DOWN THERE DID YOU PICK UP ANY OTHER FIREFIGHTERS ANY CIVILIANS
TH WAS AN WH US WHILE WE WERE DOWN THERE WE DIDNT PICK ANYONE UNTIL
WE GOT THERE MEAN WHO CAME WITH US WHEN WE WERE ON
YOU
COVERING CAPTAIN CAPTAIN GRABHER WE HAD DEAN COUTSOUROS WE HAD OWEN
WE HAD GEO MARSH WE HAD

SCHROECK
THE SCENE WE DIDNT PICK UP ANYBODY EN ROUTE THERE THE GENTLEMANS NAME IM NOT SURE THINK HIS FIRST NAME WAS JOE
FROM THESE QUARTERS
NO THINK HE USED TO WORK OUT OF 122
HE WAS OFF DUTY OR ON DUTY
HE WAS OFF DUTY HE DIDNT HAVE BUNKER GEAR
OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT
OKAY HOW ABOUT CIVILIANS DID YOU HAVE TO
TREAT ANYBODY OR ANYBODY APPROACH THE ENGINE COMPANY FOR THAT
THINK THAT WAS JOHN GERMAIN JOHN GERMAIN
BELIEVE HIS FIRST NAME YES JOHN GERMAIN YES AND HE DID HAVE BUNKER GEAR BUT WHEN FIRST SAW
HIM DONT THINK HE WAS WEARING IT ON OR WHATEVER OKAY SO YOU GOT TO LIBERTY AND WEST DID
YOU GET INSTRUCTIONS TO GO INTO ANY OF THE BUILDINGS WHAT CAN RECALL WAS WHEN WE WERE COMING
DOWN GUESS HEADING SOUTH GUESS PAST THE STAGING AREA HERE BELIEVE IT WAS LOCATED RIGHT AROUND HERE
LIB THERE
AND
CAN REMEMBER GOING UNDERNEATH THE WALKWAY

SCHROECK
THATS LIBERTY AND WEST STREET THE PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY
CONTINUING GUESS GOING UP LIBERTY HERE KNOW THERE WAS LIKE LITTLE PARKING LOT AREA THERE
OKAY
DONT KNOW IF ITS THE MARRIOTT PARKING LOT
OR IT WAS PRIVATE PARKING LOT
THATS PRIVATE
PARKING LOT OVER HERE OH THIS IS IT HERE
YES
RIQHT SO CAN REMEMBER COMINQ UP THIS
STREET HERE
CHAMBERS STREET
RIGHT WE WERE STANDING RIGHT AROUND HERE WHEN OBVIOUSLY JUMPERS WERE COMING DOWN AND GUESS WE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT DONT KNOW AT THAT POINT WHERE WE WERE HEADING OR WHAT BUT CAN REMEMBER THAT THE CAPTAIN GAVE US SOME ORDERS TO GUESS COME AROUND SOMEHOW AND THEN LED US TOWARD THINK
WASHINGTON HERE BELIEVE AND GUESS WAS STANDING RIGHT AROUND HERE SO RIGHT AROUND WASHINGTON AND MAYBE
KN REMEMBER WE WERE BACKING OUT OF THIS AREA HERE WE
WERE AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE WHEN IT STARTED COLLAPSING
ALBANY ALBANY
CAN

SCHROECK
WE HEAR THE ROARING AND WE ALL JUST PRETTY MUCH
WAS THAT THE COLLAPSE OF TOWER
THE SOUTH
TOWER
ALBANY AREA HERE REMEMBER GUYS SAYING TO ME STICK WITH US STICK WITH US AND THAT WAS BEFORE THE
COLLAPSE STARTING AND BEFORE WE EVEN KNEW THERE WAS
GOING TO BE COLLAPSE
DO YOU KNOW WHO THAT WAS
DEAN DEAN ACTUALLY TOLD ME TO STICK WITH HIM MAKE SURE STICK WITH HIM AND STUFF LIKE THAT AND THAT WAS PRIOR TO GOING EN ROUTE AND ALL THAT HE WAS OF COURSE MAKING ME BE AWARE IF ANYTHING STICK AROUND STICK WITH THE MEMBERS BUT WHEN THE COLLAPSE CAME DOWN DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED BUT FOUND MYSELF AWAY FROM EVERYBODY
JUST YOU OR WERE YOU WITH ANYBODY ME WAS ALONE
YOU WERE BY YOURSELF
CANT SP WH TALKING TH
GUYS AFTERWARDS FOUND OUT WHERE THEY WENT THINK IT WAS LIKE RIGHT IN THIS BUILDING HERE THIS TRUST
TOWER THE FIRST
COLLAPSE
THE FIRST THE SOUTH TOWER
OKAY
GUESS WE BACKED UP COMING DOWN WASHINGTON

SCHROECK
PLAZA HERE BELIEVE AND SHOT OVER HERE THIS BUILDING HERE BELIEVE IN THIS CORNER RIGHT IN HERE
THERE WAS LIKE LITTLE DOORWAY HERE WHERE
TO GET SOME PROTECTION THERE FROM FALLING DEBRIS
THAT WAS ON THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF
WASHINGTON AND ALBANY
YES BELIEVE LOOKING AT THIS MAP IT
LOOKS LIKE THATS WHERE WAS COULD BE MISTAKEN
BUT THINK ITS LIKE IN RIGHT HERE MISTAKEN RIGHT ON THIS CORNER HERE IT FELT FOREVER YOU KNOW AS IT WAS
IF IM NOT
WAS THERE FOR
COMINQ DOWN LOT
OF EMOTIONS LOT OF THINGS GOING THROUGH THE MIND AS FAR AS LIFE GOES DIDNT THINK THERE WAS MUCH
LEFT
WHAT WERE THE CONDITIONS WHAT DID YOU SEE
YOU COULDNT REALLY SEE MUCH MEAN AT THAT POINT ANYWAY PRETTY MUCH HAD MY FACE TUCKED INTO
THE BUILDING THERE MY BODY TUCKED INTO THE BUILDING
AND GUESS WITH THE FALLING DEBRIS THE BUILDING COLLAPSE YOU COULDNT SEE MUCH YOU COULDNT HEAR MUCH
BUT THE ROARING AND YOU KNOW OBVIOUSLY YOU WERENT
THAT DIDNT THINK WAS GOING TO MAKE IT IN IF THATS WHERE WE WERE TRYING TO
GET TO DONT KNOW BUT FOUND MYSELF JUST SITTING
ANYTHING
WAS ABLE

THERE
SCHROECK
OKAY SO ONCE THE DEHRIS SETTLED THEN WHAT
DID YOU DO
PRETTY MUCH BACKED OUT LOOKING FOR THE REST
OF THE MEMBERS BECAUSE YOU COULD HEAR ALL PASS ALARMS
THE FIRST THING HEARD WAS 220 220 AND CONTINUED
GOING OFF PEOPLE SCREAMING COMPANIES CALLING
BACKED OUT CLIMBING OVER COUPLE OF LITTLE KNOW DEBRIS WAS IN THE WAY AND STUFF LIKE THAT
DID YOU HOOK UP WITH YOUR UNIT AT THAT
POINT
YES WINDED UP HOOKING UP WITH MY GUYS SHORTLY AFTER THAT COUPLE MINUTES AFTER THAT AND THEN THINK AT THAT POINT WE WERE STARTED TO RETREAT
DONT KNOW TRYING TO FIND OUT TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE EXACTLY WERE WE THINK BY THE TIME WE GATHERED DONT KNOW IF WE KIND OF SHOT DOWN MORE WASHINGTON OR MAYBE WE WENT BACK TOWARDS LIBERTY HERE WHEN THE SECOND COLLAPSED IT TOOK COUPLE OF MINUTES BY THE TIME EVERYBODY GATHERED UP AND GOT TOGETHER AND ALL THE MEMBERS WERE TOGETHER AND STUFF
OKAY TH BUILDING CAM YES THINK WE WERE MORE SO ON
GUESS WE SHOT BACK UP THIS WAY HERE BECAUSE CAN REMEMBER
YOU

REMEMBER
BEING IN BUILDING THERE WHERE THE HOTEL
DONT KNOW IF IT WAS THE HOTEL OR WHAT THERE WAS REVOLVING DOOR
SCHROECK
BEING ON THE WEST SIDE EXACTLY WHERE ON THE WEST SIDE DONT KNOW BUT WHEN THE SECOND ONE COLLAPSED WAS LITTLE BIT FURTHER AWAY THAN THE FIRST ONE MUST
HAVE BEEN AROUND DONT KNOW IF WAS THIS FAR HERE MUST HAVE BEEN AROUND THIS IS WHERE WAS
FOR THE FIRST ONE MAYBE ABOUT HERE SOMEWHERE
CAN
IT MIQHT HAVE BEEN THE HOTEL
OKAY THAT WAS THE HOTEL
THERE WERE PEOPLE IN HERE WE WERE TRYING TO
GET PEOPLE OUT TELLING THEM TO RUN DOWN THIS WAY HERE FURTHER SOUTH THERE WAS SOME WATER THERE WHICH WE
ALL NEEDED
OKAY THAT WAS IN THE HOTEL
YES
SO THE SECOND BUILDING COLLAPSED YOU RECOVERED THEN WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER THAT DID YOU
REGROUP DID YOU GO ANYWHERE ELSE
GU AGAIN WAY BACK CAN REMEMBER THERE WAS GIRL BELIEVE
ONC AGAIN KST MY GUYS AND
WHEN THE DUST STARTED TO SETTLE WE STARTED MAKING OUR
10

SCHROECK
AN EMS GIRL SHE WAS LIKE ALL DAZED UP THERE AND
KIND OF ASSISTED HER SOUTH THINK WALKED HER MAYBE
BLOCK OR SO
DID YOU GET HER NAME
NO DID NOT GET HER NAME DID NOT GET HER NAME SHE WAS LITTLE DAZED UP CAN REMEMBER
THAT AND OBVIOUSLY HYSTERICAL CRYING CONFUSED WHETHER SHE WAS HURT OR WHATEVER COULDNT TELL AT
THAT POINT ASSISTED HER LITTLE FURTHER DOWN TO WHERE GUESS LED HER YOU KNOW WALK SOUTH HERE
NOW AT THAT POINT DID YOU QO BACK UP
YES AT THAT POINT WENT BACK UP THIS WAY
WHERE MET MY GUYS AGAIN OKAY
THEN WE PRETTY MUCH SCATTERED CAN REMEMBER PUTTING OUT REMEMBER THE DEBRIS CRUSHING
THROUGH WINDOWS AND GUESS IT WAS APARTMENT FIRES EVERYWHERE HERE THINK IT MIGHT HAVE EVEN BEEN ONE OF THESE TWO BUILDINGS
DID YOU GO STRETCH THE HOSE
OH YES
FR TH MARIN
YES THINK AT THAT POINT YES ACTUALLY AT THAT POINT WE DID COME DOWN HERE YES THEY HAD
11

SCHROECK
THE BOAT HERE AND WE WERE TRYING TO
INAUDIBLE
IS THAT HERE
YES
RIGHT AROUND HERE THE BOAT WAS RIGHT IT
WAS RIGHT AGAINST THE WINTER GARDEN WE TRIED TO
STRETCH
THERE
GET LINE IN PLACE INTO THE WINTER GARDEN BUT THINK THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT GUESS AN GAS ODOR POSSIBLE COLLAPSE AND STUFF LIKE
ODOR
THAT AND WE WERE USING CAUTION AND STUFF LIKE THAT
BUT THINK WE QOT IT IN PLACE AND THEY BROUQHT AN INJURED MEMBER HERE HEAD TRAUMA AND HE WINDED UP
GOING ON THE BOAT THEY ESCORTED HIM WHERE THEY NEEDED TO
THATS WHEN YOU LOST THE LINE
YES THAT LINE WAS PRETTY MUCH DONE WITH
CAN REMEMBER GOING BACK THIS WAY OR AT LEAST THINK THE CHAUFFEUR AND ANOTHER MEMBER WENT AROUND SOMEWHERE
GUESS TO FIND RIG AND GET THE RIG IN PLACE SOMEWHERE ELSE WE WERE BOUNCING BACK HERE FOR
COUPLE OF MINUTES AND THEN GUESS WE WENT BACK OVER
WH
HERE WE FOUND OURSELVES IN FRONT HERE FOR LITTLE
GAT PLAZA WHILE WHERE THERE WERE COUPLE OTHER MEMBERS FROM
12

SCHROECK
DIFFERENT COMPANIES DONT RECALL WHAT COMPANIES DONT RECALL WHAT MEMBERS
WHAT DID YOU DO AT THAT LOCATION
CAN REMEMBER REGROUPING THERE WAS MORE
FLUID THERE FOR US UNTIL THINK ON THE 10TH FLOOR THERE WAS FIRE WE WOUND UP GOING UP THERE WAS NO
HYDRANT PRESSURE WE WENT UP WITH COUPLE OF CANS HERE THE CAPTAIN DEAN AND DONT KNOW WHO ELSE WAS
THERE DONT THINK INITIALLY THERE WAS ANYONE WITH US WE WENT UP WHETHER THERE WERE COUPLE OTHER UNITS WHO WENT UP PRIOR DONT REMEMBER BUT KNOW WHEN WE GOT THERE THERE WERE MORE MEMBERS THERE WHEN WE WENT UP TO PUT IT OUT REMEMBER SEEING BUFFALO
HE USED TO WORK AT THIS HOUSE HERE HE WAS PULLING
HOSE WE HOOKED UP TO THE STANDPIPE WE WENT UP AND
THEN AFTER YOU GOT THE FIRE OUT WHAT DID YOU
DO
WE CAME BACK DOWN WAS PRETTY MUCH SHOT THEN LITTLE LEFT CAN REMEMBER FALLING CAN REMEMBER FALLING WE CAME BACK DOWN HERE AND THINK WE REGROUPED AGAIN COUPLE OF MEMBERS WERE INJURED
WH
AN
HOW DID YOU GET HOME THAT EVENING
AND TRANSP US THINK THEY WENT TO HOSPITAL
PLAC
13
UP

WHERE
TO THE TRUCK
WE WENT BACK BELIEVE
VESEY AND WEST
TO THIS POINT HERE
SCHROECK
AFTER THAT POINT WENT WITH THE CAPTAIN
COUPLE OF THE GUYS LIKE SAID LEFT GUESS TO GET MEDICAL ATTENTION
INAUDIBLE
YES THEY JUMPED IN BLAZER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT WHICH TOOK THEM TO GUESS THE BOAT OR
WHEREVER AND FOUND MYSELF WITH THE CAPTAIN HERE AND WE WENT BACK
YES BELIEVE IT WAS THIS POINT HERE WHERE IT WAS TONS AND TONS OF VEHICLES AND MEMBERS THAT WAS
MUCH IT KNOW WE SAT HERE FOR LITTLE
WHILE REMEMBER DOING WHAT WE NEEDED TO DO THEN
CAN REMEMBER WOULD SAY LATE EVENING DONT REALLY RECALL THE TIME MAYBE AROUND 600 DONT KNOW THATS WHEN WE WERE TRANSPORTED THE CAPTAIN AND MYSELF OVER TO BELIEVE BELLVUE
OH OKAY SO YOU DID GO TO THE HOSPITAL
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU WANT TO ADD THAT YOU THINK IS IMPORTANT
PRETTY
14

SCHROECK
NO NOT THAT RECALL AT THIS TIME
MR FELLER WE WANT TO THANK YOU FOR
COOPERATING AND PARTICIPATING IN THIS ITS VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE GET THIS INFORMATION WITH THAT IN
MIND WELL CONCLUDE THE INTERVIEW THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW AT 1328 HOURS
15

FILE NO 9110052
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
FIREFIGHTER
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 11 2001
ARTHUR MYERS
TRANSCRIBED BY
LAURIE COLLINS

MYERS
MR CUNDARI TODAY IS OCTOBER 11TH 2001 THE TIME IS 1210 HOURS THIS IS GEORGE CUNDARI WITH MURRAY MURAD FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK IM
CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME RANK TITLE AND
COMMAND
FIREFIGHTER MYERS MY NAME IS ALFRED
ASSIGNED
MYERS SR FIRST GRADE FIREMAN ENGINE 39
IM IN
MR CUNDARI OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK WERE AT ENGINE 39
THIS INTERVIEW IS IN REGARDS TO THE EVENTS
OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
ARTHUR CAN YOU TELL US WHAT HAPPENED
THAT DAY FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE
THAT MORNING WAS AT THE WATCH AND
GOT SOMEONE TO RELIEVE ME WENT UPSTAIRS TO TAKE SHAVE AND CHANGE MY SHIRT WHILE WAS
GOING TO SHAVE JIMMY LONG CAME RUNNING PAST ME SAID WHATS THE MATTER HE SAID PLANE
JUST HIT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ITS ON CHANNEL

MYERS
HIM AND BOTH WENT AND TURNED THE TV ON WE SAW WHERE THE PLANE HIT AT THAT TIME WE SAID WERE HIGH RISE UNIT KNOW WERE GETTING READY TO GO SO CHANGED MY SHIRT SURE ENOUGH IT CAME IN AS SECOND ALARM AND WE WERE RESPONDING 39 RESPONDED AT THAT TIME
BEING THAT IM THE CHAUFFEUR WENT TO THE RIG STARTED THE RIG UP HIT THE BELLS GOT THE GUYS READY AND WE TOOK OFF TO GO DOWN THERE EN ROUTE DOWN THERE IT WENT STRAIGHT TO FIFTH ALARM IT DIDNT GO NORMALLY THEY SAY IN
THE BOROUGH OF MANHATTAN THIRD ALARM HAS BEEN TRANSMITTED OR FOURTH ALARM THEY DIDNT DO THAT IT WENT FROM SECOND STRAIGHT TO THE
FIFTH ALARM
TOOK SECOND AVENUE DOWN TO HOUSTON
STREET WENT ACROSS HOUSTON OVER TO WEST STREET WITH WHICH WE TURNED BY THE TIME GOT TO HOUSTON IT WENT TO SECOND FIFTH ALARM THATS WHEN THE SECOND PLANE HIT
WE PROCEEDED DOWN THERE
DID YOU HEAR THE SECOND PLANE HIT
WE HEARD THE SECOND PLANE HIT FROM THE
RADIO TRANSMIT DIDNT SEE BUT WE HEARD IT

MYERS
YOU HEARD IT THE HANG
THE HANG THEN IT WENT STRAIGHT TO SECOND FAITH ALARM IT DIDNT GO SECOND THIRD
FOURTH FIFTH THEY JUST SKIPPED ALL WENT STRAIGHT TO FIFTH SAID
ALARM BOTH TOWERS ARE HIT NOW GOT OVER TO WEST STREET
THAT AND SECOND FIFTH
WAS AT HOUSTON AND WEST STREET WHEN TURNED ONTO WEST
STREET SAID OH SHIT LOOK AT THIS BOTH BUILDINGS WERE FULLY INVOLVED BIG BLAST OF
FIRE WAS JUST BLOWING OUT WINDOWS
WE PROCEEDED DOWN WEST STREET DOWN TO
THE TOWERS HIGH RISE IS FOLLOWING RIG LIKE
SAID WERE HIGH RISE UNIT DRIVEN BY JEFF CONIGLIO WHEN
TOLD US PULL UP RIGHT BEHIND
WHAT DID HIGH RISE PULLED UP RIGHT BESIDE ME BUT RIGHT ACROSS FROM ME
AT THAT TIME THE GUYS GOT OUT THEY STARTED DONNING MASKS AND EVERYTHING WAS
TELLING THEM BE CAREFUL PUT YOUR GLOVES ON
PUT YOUR HOOD ON TURN YOUR OXYGEN ON AND JUST BE CAREFUL
WHAT WAS THAT LOCATION YOU PARKED
THEY FOLLOW
US IN
GOT THERE THEY ENGINE WHICH IS

MYERS
WE PARKED RIGHT ON WEST STREET RIGHT
UP FROM THE NORTH TOWER WAS FURTHER AWAY FROM
THE NORTH TOWER BLOCK FROM IT SO YOU WERE PAST VESEY
PAST VESEY
PAST THE PEDESTRIAN
PAST VESEY BUT RIGHT IN THIS SECTION
HERE BECAUSE THIS IS THE NORTH TOWER HERE CAN SEE THE FRONT ENTRANCE TO THE NORTH TOWER SO
MUST BE SOMEWHERE DOWN IN HERE
NOW THE GUYS ARE GONE IM LOOKING SEE WHAT JUST COULDNT BELIEVE THOUGHT IT
WAS BIG DOLL BABY BUT THESE WERE BURNT PEOPLE FALLING RIGHT AFTER THAT THEN YOU SEE LIVE
PEOPLE JUMPING THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IVE EVER SEEN PEOPLE JUMP LIKE THIS IN MY WHOLE CAREER
20
IN 20 YEARS THIS IS THE FIRST TIME
IVE EVER WITNESSED THIS AND IT WAS JUST BLOWING MY MIND
THE CHAUFFEUR FROM ENGINE HE WAS TELLING ME LISTEN DONT LOOK JUST DONT
SAID HOW CAN NOT LOOK IVE NEVER SEEN THIS BEFORE JUST ANY TIME YOU THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE
YEARS
OVERPASS

MYERS
IT THEN YOUD SEE MORE WAVES OF PEOPLE COMING
IT WAS LIKE RAINING PEOPLE YOU COULD HEAR WHEN
THEY HIT THE GROUND BANG BANG AND THE BODY
PARTS JUST DISMANTLING ALL OVER THE PLACE AT THAT TIME IT JUST GOT TO ME
TURNED AROUND TO LOOK AWAY FROM IT AND IM
SAYING TO MYSELF THESE ARE PEOPLE MAN THERE ARE PEOPLE DYING HERE COULDNT BELIEVE WHAT
WAS SEEING
WHEN TURNED AROUND SOMEONE
SAID THE CHIEF ORDERED THEM TO MOVE 39 ENGINE
RIG WASNT THERE SAID WHERE THE HELL IS
39 ITS LIKE SOMEBODY STEALING YOUR CAR WHAT THEY DID WAS THEY TOOK OUR RIG AND PUT IT RIGHT
IN FRONT OF THE NORTH TOWER
SAID WAIT MINUTE THEYRE FULL OF SHIT THEYRE NOT GOING TO LEAVE THE RIG
THERE NOW YOU SEE THE BODIES JUST FALLING DOWN
SO AT THAT TIME PROBY CAME OVER TO
ME HE SAID LOOK IM PROBY IM OFF DUTY WANT TO HELP SAID WHATEVER YOU DO DONT
GO IN THAT BUILDING YOURE OFF DUTY IF SOMETHING HAPPENS TO YOU THEY WONT PAY YOUR
THEY MY

MYERS
FAMILY NOTHING YOU JUST STAY WITH ME WHATEVER YOU DO DONT GO IN THE BUILDING BECAUSE AT
THAT POINT DEBRIS WAS COMING DOWN PLUS THE BODIES
RIGS ARE COMING IN GUYS ARE ON TOP OF THE RIGS JUST GOING FULL BLAST INTO THIS NOW
HIM AND RAN OVER GET THE RIG THE CHIEF ORDERS ME TO HOOK UP TO THE SIAMESE SAID BULLSHIT IM NOT HOOKING UP HERE SOME OF THE GUYS GET IN THE RIG WHICH HE DID GOT IN THE RIG THE CHIEF WAS TELLING ME HOOK UP TO THE SIAMESE LEAVE THIS RIG HERE SAID
BULLSHIT
GET OUT OF THE WAY
WHERE WAS THIS SIAMESE
THE SIAMESE RIGHT THIS IS THE FRONT
OF THE NORTH TOWER RIGHT BY THE ENTRANCE RIGHT TO THE RIGHT OF THE ENTRANCE BEFORE YOU GO IN
THE SIAMESE WAS RIGHT THERE
THATS WHERE YOUR TRUCK IS RIGHT NOW
RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE TOWER
YEAH SOMEBODY HAD BROUGHT THE TRUCK OVER THERE ORIGINALLY WE WERE OVER THIS WAY
YOU WERE MORE NORTH MORE NORTH AWAY FROM IT

MYERS
BY THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE AWAY FROM IT YES
THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE EXACTLY
BUT ME THEY BROUGHT OUR RIG RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING SAID BULLSHIT
WERE NOT GOING TO
INTERRUPTION
SO THE CHIEF WAS TELLING ME LEAVE
THIS RIG HERE AND SUPPLY THIS
INTERRUPTION
WAS IN THE RIG THE CHIEF WAS
ORDERING ME TO HOOK UP TO THE SIAMESE SAID BULLSHIT IM GETTING OUT OF HERE HE KEPT
ORDERING ME PULLED OUT AND PUT OUR RIG RIGHT BACK WHERE IT WAS ORIGINALLY
AT THAT TIME GETTING OUT OF THE RIG TOLD THE PROBY YOU STAY HERE DONT GO OVER
THERE NOW THERES MORE PEOPLE JUMPING MORE CHAOS BUT YOU START HEARING THIS CRACKING NOISE
AND THUNDERING NOISE
AT THAT TIME WITNESSED MAYOR GIULIANI
AND HIS ENTOURAGE COMING DOWN FROM THE SOUTH END

DOWN
HIGHWAY
MYERS
NO FROM THIS END OVER HERE COMING
THEY WERE COMING DOWN WEST SIDE
WEST SIDE SOUTH
HIGHWAY
HE GETS OUT OF HIS CAR THERES ABOUT
TEN OF THEM THEYRE RIGHT WHERE MY RIG IS AT THAT TIME YOU HEAR ALL THIS
CRACKLING AND THUNDERING NOISE WE LOOK UP AND YOU SEE THE FIRST BUILDING THE SOUTH TOWER
COMING DOWN SAID OH SHIT ITS FALLING AT THAT TIME GIULIANI HIS CREW AND
MYSELF WE WERE RUNNING WE WERE RUNNING NECK AND NECK OUT OF THERE JUST RAN AS FAR NORTH
AS COULD LOOKING BACK SEEING MASSIVE CLOUD OF SMOKE AND DEBRIS JUST COMING MY WAY WENT TO ONE OR ANOTHER STREET RAN UP TO THAT STREET WENT TO ANOTHER STREET RAN UP THAT JUST KEPT RUNNING
WATER WAS
THE TRUCK
AT THIS TIME RAN OVER TO WHERE THE
WAS PROBY WITH YOU THE ONE THAT WAS IN

MYERS
NO HE WASNT WITH ME
WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM AT THAT POINT
HE MAY HAVE STARTED WITH ME AND WE GOT LOST IN
THE RUN DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM BUT JUST RAN WE ALL JUST RAN JUST STARTED
RUNNING UNTIL GOT OVER TO WHERE THE WATER WAS
SAID WELL IF PUSH COMES TO SHOVE ILL JUST GO INTO THE WATER
SO YOU RAN NORTH AND THEN YOU RAN WEST
RIGHT BECAUSE YOURE RUNNING BACK THIS WAY AND ZIGZAGGING TO WHERE THIS MUST BE THE
WATER HERE ALL THE WAY OVER HERE
YOU WENT TO VESEY AND NORTH END STREET
RIGHT RIGHT REMEMBER VESEY
AND THERE WAS SCHOOL HERE RIGHT BY
THE WATER AND THEY WERE SAYING THAT THEY HAD REPORT OF GAS LEAK SOME SORT OF GAS LEAK AND TO GET OUT OF THERE EVACUATE SO HAD TO RUN AGAIN BACK OVER THIS WAY
NOW IM SAYING TO MYSELF MY GUYS ARE IN THERE SO IM ON THE RADIO 39 CHAUFFEUR TO 39 39 CALLING THE OFFICER
CHANNEL YOU WERE ON
CHANNEL GET NO RESPONSE NO
DONT KNOW
JUST RAN
10

MYERS 11
RESPONSE AT ALL BUT IM HEARING RADIO CONTACTS
IM HEARING MAYDAYS BUT HES NOT RESPONDING TO ME SAID OH SHIT THE GOOD GUYS IN THAT
BUILDING THEYRE DEAD THATS THE ONLY THING COULD SAY THESE GUYS ARE DEAD
SAID LET ME GET CLOSER NOW IM
WORKING MY WAY BACK TO WHERE MY RIG IS AND IM ON THE RADIO CALLING 39 CHAUFFEUR TO 39 39
CHAUFFEUR TO 39 CONTROL THEN IT GOT TO THE POINT SAID 39 CHAUFFEUR TO 39 ANYBODY ANYBODY 39 RESPOND RESPOND LET ME HEAR FROM YOU NO ONE IS SAYING ANYTHING
IM WALKING BACK TO THE RIG SAY MY
HERE IN THIS AREA HERE WHEN GET BLOCK RANGE OF IT NOW YOU HEAR
AGAIN THIS THUNDER AGAIN YOU KNOW FROM THE FIRST ONE HEY THIS THING IS
COMING DOWN
YOU LOOK UPAND NOW ITS COMING AND
COMING AT RAPID ITS JUST FALLING NOW
START RUNNING AGAIN BUT THIS TIME BEING THAT IM CLOSER TO THE NORTH TOWER ITS COMING DOWN
WITH SUCH FORCE DEBRIS AND EVERYTHING IS COMING
RIG IS RIGHT ABOUT WITHIN
THIS CRACKING

MYERS 12
THERES ANOTHER FIREMAN TO THE RIGHT OF ME HIM AND ARE RUNNING IM RIGHT BY PS 89
REMEMBER THE SCHOOL PS 89 THERE WAS WAVING US IN COME ON IN HERE COME ON IN
HERE IM SAYING TO MYSELF IM NOT GOING TO MAKE IT BECAUSE HAVE ON MY FULL GEAR HAVE
FULL GEAR ON SEEN THIS WAVE COMING IM
HEADING THIS WAY AND ITS COMING LIKE WAVE JUST COMING SAID SHIT IM NOT MAKE THIS
TIDAL GOING TO
AND
GOD LET THIS DOOR BE OPEN WHEN PULLED THE
DOOR IT OPENED LOOKED LIKE GEORGE JUMPING IN THE AIR AND CLOSING THE DOOR BEHIND ME WHEN CLOSED THIS DOOR IT GETS COVERED IT JUST COVERS IT
THERE ARE COUPLE POLICE CARS
POLICE EMERGENCY VAN AND JUST SAID PLEASE
RIGHT
MURRAY YOU THINK
THE DUST CLOUD
THE DUST CLOUD IT GOT SO BLACK YOURE STILL ON THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY
STILL ON THE WEST SIDE
HIGHWAY NORTH OF THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE BY
COP

MYERS 13
WHEREVER PS 89 IS WAS RIGHT ALONGSIDE PS 89 THAT STREET THAT MAY BE SOMEWHERE IN THIS VICINITY RIGHT HERE
VESEY
WHEREVER THE SCHOOL IS THE SCHOOL WAS PS 89 THE POLICE VEHICLES WERE LINED
UP ALONG THERE
IT GOT SO BLACK IM SAYING EITHER TWO
THINGS EITHER IM DEAD OR ITS THE END OF THE
WORLD IVE NEVER SEEN IT THAT BLACK IN
WHOLE IM 51 YEARS OLD IVE NEVER SEEN IT
THAT BLACK IN MY WHOLE LIFE IM SAYING WELL DONT THINK IM DEAD
NOW IM WORRIED ABOUT BEING ABLE TO BREATHE WAS OKAY INSIDE WAS ABLE TO BREATHE THERE WAS NO DEBRIS COMING IN OR ANYTHING
TRUCK
COVERED
YOU HEARD ALL THAT STUFF HITTING THE
IT WAS JUST LIKE SOUND AND IT JUST
AT THAT TIME MAYBE ABOUT 15 20 MINUTES
VESEY
OR SO HEAR THE POLICE HEY IS ANYBODY IN THERE IM IN HERE IM IN HERE THEY
MY

MYERS 14
STARTED WORKING THE DOORS AND PUSHED AND GOT THE DOOR OPEN AND GOT OUT THEY SAID ARE YOU
ALL RIGHT
YOU WERE TRAPPED INSIDE THE ESU TRUCK
THE ESU TRUCK
YOU COULDNT GET OUT
IM NOT GOING TO SAY COULDNT GET OUT BUT THEY HELPED ME GET OUT AT THE TIME
DIDNT REALLY TRY TO GET OUT WAS JUST WAITING TO SEE IF EVERYTHING CLEARS UP
THEY CAME AND SAID IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE YOU HAVE IN HERE THEY GOT THE DOOR OPEN AND GOT ME OUT AT THAT TIME THEY SAID ARE YOU ALL RIGHT DO YOU WANT TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL OR SOMETHING DO YOU WANT TO GET CHECKED OUT
SAID NO IM ALL RIGHT
SAID BUT THERE WAS ANOTHER FIREMAN WITH ME HOW DID HE DO THEY SAID WELL WE
DONT KNOW ABOUT THE OTHER GUY WE DONT THINK HE MADE IT GOT HIS HELMET HE WAS FROM
ENGINE AND HIS HELMET WAS 845
NOW IM CALLING THE GUYS IM FRANTIC
PANICKING IM CALLING THE GUYS 39 CHAUFFEUR TO 39 ANYBODY NOW KNOW THESE GUYS ARE DEAD

MYERS 15
NOW BECAUSE THE SECOND ONE CAME DOWN THE NORTH TOWER NO ONE WAS RESPONDING AS USUAL THE
MAYDAYS WERE GOING ALL OVER THE PLACE IT WAS
JUST MAJOR CHAOS
THIS GOES ON FOR ABOUT COUPLE HOURS
IM WALKING AROUND JUST TRYING TO FIND
CALLING CALLING NO ONE RESPONDING SAW OTHER GUYS LOOKING FOR THEIR GUYS YOU HEAR MAJOR MAJOR CHAOS MAJOR MAYDAYS EVERYTHING ITS
JUST
MY GUYS
BALL OF CONFUSION
ABOUT TWO HOURS GO BY RAN INTO JOHN
DRUMM WHO WAS IN THE ENGINE THAT DAY SAID DRUMM WHERES IM HUGGING HIM SAID WHERE ARE THE GUYS WHAT HAPPENED WHERE ARE THE GUYS WHERE ARE THE GUYS HE SAID MAN THEY WERE BEHIND ME SAID THERES NOBODY HERE BUT YOU HE SAID WELL THOSE GUYS WERE BEHIND ME DONT THINK THEY MADE IT SAID OH MAN
HE WANTED TO GO BACK IN SAID NO YOU STAY OUT HERE YOU STAY OUT HERE WITH ME SO HIM AND WALKED AND WE RAN INTO MEMBER OF 16
WHAT WAS THAT PERSONS NAME

MYERS 16
THEN RAN INTO RATTAZZI FROM LADDER
16 FROM 16 TRUCK SAID RATTAZZI WHERE ARE THE GUYS AT HE SAID DONT KNOW WHERE THE
GUYS ARE AT HE GOT SEPARATED FROM HIS GUYS SO THE THREE OF US TOGETHER HE WAS
SUFFERING WITH EYE INJURIES SO WE MADE IT AWAY FROM WE WALKED UP FROM IT AND SOME EMS GUYS
CAME OVER AND WASHED HIS EYES OUT AND THEY WASHED MINE OUT THE SAME WITH DRUMM
DRUMM KEPT INSISTING ON GOING BACK OVER CAN LOOK FOR THE GUYS SAID NO
YOURE NOT GOING TO LOOK FOR THE GUYS LETS GO OVER HERE AND GET OURSELVES TOGETHER HE WAS ALL DIRTY THE DEBRIS AND EVERYTHING ON HIM
WE CALLED ON THE RADIO NOW DRUMM HAS RADIO ALSO HE MENTIONED THAT SOME GUYS WERE ON CHANNEL SAID ALL RIGHT ILL KEEP IT
ON YOU TURN TO LETS CALL SEE IF WE CAN HEAR SOMETHING TO NO AVAIL
THEN THEY SAID SOME GUYS WERE ON CHANNEL SO WE SWITCHED IT FROM TO
STAYED ON AND HE SWITCHED FROM TO OR VICE VERSA ANYHOW NOW ITS LIKE FIVE HOURS GO BY
AND JUST ACCEPTED THE FACT THAT THESE GUYS ARE

MYERS 17
GONE THATS JUST MY ACCOUNT ON IT
RAN INTO JOE GRAZIANO FROM 13 TRUCK
HES LOOKING FOR HIS GUYS RUN INTO LIEUTENANT JONES FROM TRUCK AND HES LOOKING FOR HIS GUYS SAID WELL LET ME JUST WALK BACK DOWN THERE
IM WHERE THE CHIEF ORDERED TRUCK TO GO AFTER 39 LOOKING FOR 39 GO AFTER THEM
SAID GOOD LET ME STAY WITH TRUCK AND SEE IF FIND THEM MAYBE ILL HEAR SOMETHING MADE IT BACK DOWN THERE TRUCK IM CALLING
TRUCK THEYRE NOT RESPONDING BACK TO ME
FINALLY ONE OF THE OFFICERS FROM
TRUCK RESPONDS BACK TO ME DID YOU SEE ANYBODY FROM 39 NEGATIVE HAVENT SEEN ANYONE YET
ABOUT MAYBE HALF AN HOUR THIS IS GOING ON NOW HIS UNIT IS TOLD TO COME OUT OF THERE
SO IM CALLING HIM HE DOESNT RESPOND BUT THE OFFICER FROM 16 TRUCK
LIEUTENANT WILLIAMS HE SAID ARTHUR
SAID LOU ANYBODY FROM 39 DID ANYBODY SEE ANYBODY FROM 39 NO ONE KNEW AS SOON AS WE
HEAR SOMETHING WELL GET BACK TO YOU
NOW SEE CHIEF SCHILDHORN FROM THE

MYERS 18
10TH BATTALION GO OVER THERE CHIEF ANY
WORD ON 39 HE SAID NO ARTHUR NO WORD DID YOU HEAR FROM ANYBODY DID ANY OF THE GUYS CALL HE SAID NO WE HAVENT HEARD ANYTHING ALL RIGHT NOW IM JUST SAYING THESE GUYS ARE DEAD WE ALL CAME DOWN TOGETHER IM CRYING
THE SWEETEST VOICE THAT EVER CAME IN
LIFE HEARD JEFF CONIGLIO AND JIMMY
EFTHIMIADES HEAR ARTHUR ARTHUR IM LOOKING AT THESE GUYS IN AMAZEMENT THEYRE ALL COVERED UP AND EVERYTHING SAID GET OVER HERE YOU MOTHER FUCKERS WAS RUNNING OVER AND THE THREE OF US WERE STANDING RIGHT BY THE COMMAND POST HUGGING AND CRYING WAS JUST SO GLAD TO SEE THESE GUYS
RIGHT BEHIND THEM WAS JIMMY BACON HE WAS RIGHT BEHIND SAID GET OVER HERE MAN HOW ARE YOU FEELING DIDNT YOU FUCKING HEAR ME CALLING YOU IT WAS LIKE SEEING MY OWN KIDS BEING LOST AND THEN FOUND THEM
WE WERE JUST STANDING THERE CRYING SAID WHERE IS MCGLYNN MAN WHERE IS MCGLYNN
THE OFFICER WHERE IS LIEUTENANT
SAID HES INSIDE HELPING WITH THE EVACUATION
MCGLYNN THEY
MY

MYERS 19
SAID WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING IN THERE MAN
SO CALLED HIM ON THE RADIO HE
DIDNT RESPOND RIGHT AWAY SAID THOUGHT YOU SAID HE WAS ALL RIGHT NO ARTHUR HES ALL RIGHT SAID YOU GUYS ALL RIGHT THEY WERE COMPLAINING ABOUT EYE INJURIES
AWAY FROM THE MAIN BODY OF DEBRIS EMS GUYS TOOK THE POST AND EVERYTHING JEFFREY AND JIMMY EFTHIMIADES THEY BOTH WENT TO THE HOSPITAL
SAID LOOK IM GOING TO CALL AND LET THE FAMILIES KNOW YOU GUYS ARE ALL RIGHT
WHAT DID WAS MADE IT BACK TO PS 89 AND CALLED BACK HERE TO THE FIREHOUSE SAID
LISTEN THERE SHOULD BE CAPTAIN THERE SAVARESE THE LIEUTENANT MADE CAPTAIN
SAVARESE SAID CAPTAIN LISTEN JUST LET THE GUYS FAMILIES KNOW EVERYBODY FROM 39 IS ALL
RIGHT
KNEW LIEUTENANT WILLIAMS FROM 16 TRUCK WAS ALL RIGHT HEARD OSCAR WHO WAS THE
CHAUFFEUR FROM 16 TRUCK NAMED STEVE WRIGHT WHO
SO WE MADE IT OVER WHERE EMS WAS
THEY WERE TELLING EVERYBODY TO GO OVER THAT WAY GET

MYERS 20
WAS THE ROOF MAN IF IM NOT MISTAKEN AND RATTAZZI THOSE GUYS KNEW WERE ALL RIGHT
THE OTHER GUYS BOBBY DANA AND KENNY ROGERS DIDNT KNOW IF THOSE GUYS WERE ALL
RIGHT SO DIDNT WANT TO SAY WELL EVERYBODY FROM 16 SAID EVERYBODY FROM 39 IS ALL RIGHT LET THE FAMILY MEMBERS KNOW
AT THAT POINT WE MADE IT BACK OVER
TO LEFT JEFFREY AND JIMMY AND CAME BACK OVER TO SOME STAGING AREA THEY HAD BY EITHER STUYVESANT SCHOOL ONE OF THE SCHOOLS AND SAW SOME OF THE OTHER GUYS
THEY SAID LISTEN GO OVER THERE AND TELL THEM WHERE YOU WERE AT AND GIVE ACCOUNT OF
WHAT HAPPENED WHICH IS WHAT DID THEY WERE SEEING WHO WAS ACCOUNTED FOR THEY SAID YOU
HAVE TO WRITE DOWN YOUR ENGINE COMPANY AND YOUR NAME THEY WERE TRYING TO GET WHO WAS STILL HERE THATS WHAT DID
THEN SAW THE REST OF MY GUYS FROM 39 LIEUTENANT INAUDIBLE SAID WHERE ARE THE
HE SAID OVER HERE SAID WHERE IS
GUYS
LIEUTENANT MCGLYNN THEY SAID MCGLYNN IS OVER THERE

MYERS 21
SO JUST MADE IT OVER THERE GOT HIM
HUGGED HIM AND EVERYTHING
IT WAS HELL OF AN EXPERIENCE
NEVER WANT TO GO THROUGH THAT AGAIN NEVER NOTHING EVER SAW BEFORE IN MY LIFE JUST
SEEING THE PEOPLE JUMPING WAS JUST IN ITSELF
THE TOWER COMING DOWN WAS ONE THING SEEING THESE PEOPLE JUMP TO THEIR DEATH WAS SO ALL BY ITSELF
THAT WAS IT FOR ME WE ALL CAME BACK CAME BACK WITH 16 TRUCK
YOU WERE THERE UNTIL LATE THAT NIGHT
LATE THAT NIGHT WE DIDNT LEAVE OUT OF THERE UNTIL AROUND 800 WE GOT THERE AROUND 930 25 TO 10 WE LEFT AFTER THE FIRST PLANE
HIT NO LATER THAN 20 TO 10 WE WERE DOWN THERE AS SOON AS GOT UP WE WENT DOWN AND OVER TO SECOND AVENUE AND JUST SHOT STRAIGHT DOWN THERE WHEN GOT OVER TO HOUSTON WAS ON THE ONGOING SIDE TRAFFIC SAID IVE GOT TO GET OVER TO THE WEST SIDE QUICK AND DOWN TO THE SITE
WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR IN THIS INTERVIEW ARTHUR
PARTICIPATING
MR CUNDARI THIS CONCLUDES THE TAPE

MYERS 22
AND THE TIME IS 1235

FILE NO 9110054
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT DECOSTA WRIGHT
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 11 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

31
BELIEVE SAW IT BELIEVE
IT AT FIRST IN FLAMES
IT IT WAS
SO WE JUST TRIED OUR BEST TO GET THROUGH
TH WH FINALLY TH
WRIGHT
MS BASTEDENBECK TODAYS DATE IS OCTOBER
11 2001 THE TIME IS 1531 HOURS IM CHRISTINE BASTEDENBECK OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH EMT DECOSTA WRIGHT AT BATTALION 31
HE WILL INTRODUCE HIMSELF NOW
AM DECOSTA WRIGHT EMT WRIGHT AT BATTALION
WHAT UNIT AND BATTALION ARE YOU ASSIGNED TO BATTALION 31 WHAT UNIT
WAS WORKINQ ON 31 ADAM
TELL ME WHAT YOU REMEMBER ABOUT THE EVENTS OF
SEPTEMBER 11 2001
BASICALLY WAS WORKING IN UNIT IT WAS
ABOUT 850 WHEN WE GOT THE CALL IT CAME OVER THE
COMPUTER AS FIRE AT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER SO AT FIRST WE GOT THE CALL WE RUSHED TO IT AND DIDNT
UNTIL WE GOT ON THE SAID OH MY GOD
BRIDGE THEN COULDNT
UNREAL EVERYTHING
WAS SO UNREAL
TRAFFIC
STAGED ON THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE FIRST TOWER AND THE BUILDING WAS IN FLAMES THE FIRST

WRIGHT
BUILDING WAS IN FLAMES BASICALLY WE TOOK ALL OUR EQUIPMENT OUT AND READY TO SEE HOW MANY PATIENTS THERE
WERE YOU KNOW THAT WAS ON THE SCENE WE SEEN ALL THE FIREMEN RUN INTO THE BUILDING
DID YOU REPORT TO LIEUTENANT DO YOU KNOW WHO IT WAS WHEN YOU FIRST GOT THERE
NO IM NOT SURE WHICH LIEUTENANT BUT YOU REPORTED TO LIEUTENANT
YES IT WAS JUST BASICALLY WE WERE JUST SO MUCH IN AWE ABOUT THE WHOLE THING THE BUILDING
CONTINUED BURNINQ ALL OF SUDDEN SEEN COUPLE OF PEOPLE JUMPING OUT BUT BEFORE THAT SOME DEBRIS CAME
DOWN WAS COMING DOWN LARGE PIECES OF METAL JUST FLYING DOWN IF THAT THING WOULD HAVE HIT ANYBODY THAT WOULD HAVE DECAPITATED SOMEBODY BUT IT FLOATED ALL THE WAY TOWARDS US AND THEN IT WENT INTO THE BUILDING NEXT TO US AND BROKE THE WINDOWS
THAT WAS ONE PART THAT REMEMBER AFTER
THAT THATS WHEN WE STARTED SEEING PEOPLE STARTING TO JUMP OUT IT WAS TOTAL THAT WAS UNREAL TELL YOU TO SEE PEOPLE JUMP FROM THE TOP FLOOR FEW MINUTES LAT HAD TH PLAN JUST IN
RIGHT THROUGH THE SECOND BUILDING
SO WE COULDNT BELIEVE IT BECAUSE WE THOUGHT

WRIGHT
THE FIRST ONE WAS AN ACCIDENT SO THEN RIGHT AFTER
THAT WE KNEW IT WAS TERRORISM SO AFTER THAT AFTER
THE SECOND PLANE HIT IT WAS JUST RAINING PEOPLE
PEOPLE WERE JUST JUMPING WHEN THE FIRST ONE HIT THEY
WERE JUST JUMPING PERIODICALLY YOU WOULD SEE ONE MAN JUMP OUT WAS IN IN OUR POSITION WE COULD
ACTUALLY SEE WHEN THEY HIT THE GROUND AND SEEN BODY PARTS JUST GOING EVERYWHERE WHEN THEY HIT THE GROUND SO WHEN ONE GUY HIT ALL YOU HEAR WAS BOOM THEN YOU
SEE HIS ARMS AND LEGS JUST FLEW RIGHT OFF
THEN RIQHT AFTER THAT SEE WOMAN SHE WAS
JUST SPINNING IN THE AIR AFTER THAT WHEN THE SECOND
PLANE HIT THATS WHEN MY PARTNER WAS LIKE
COULDNT BELIEVE MY REACTION BECAUSE ALL
ALL THESE PEOPLE THAT WAS JUMPING OUT
SAYING OH MY GOD OH MY GOD COULDNT BELIEVE WAS LIKE OH MY GOD COULDNT BELIEVE IT WAS SO UNREAL
THEN FEW MINUTES LATER WE HEAR ALL THIS RUMBLING SOUNDED LIKE AN EARTHQUAKE SOMEBODY SAID
THE BUILDING IS COMING DOWN SO EVERYBODY IS JUST SCR RAN INT TH
ON THE MAP
RIGHT NEXT TO US THE MERRILL LYNCH
HE
WAS SAYING
WAS JUST

WRIGHT
BUILDING YES WE RAN INTO THE MERRILL LYNCH BUILDING THAT BUILDING WAS SHAKING EVERYBODY WAS
JUST SCREAMING AND THOUGHT THAT BUILDING WAS COMING DOWN TOO BECAUSE OF THE WAY IT WAS JUST THE SHAKING
AND EVERYBODY JUST SO EVERYBODY THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING TO DIE EVERYBODY ACTUALLY THOUGHT THAT WAS IT THOUGHT THAT WAS THE END
SO WE RAN INTO THE BASEMENT OF THAT BUILDING
EVERYBODY THEN AFTER WE AFTER THE RUMBLING
STOPPED WE CAME OUT THE BUILDING
DO YOU REMEMBER WHO RAN INTO THE BUILDINQ
WITH YOU WHO WAS WITH YOU WHEN YOU RAN INTO THE BUILDING
THERE WAS LOT OF PEOPLE SO MANY PEOPLE THATS WHEN EVERYBODY SPLIT UP DIDNT SEE MY
PARTNER THAT WAS THEN DIDNT SEE MY PARTNER
NOWHERE SO WALKED
AND LOT OF ASBESTOS
COULDNT SEE NOTHING
THE BUILDING COLLAPSED SO WALKED TO THAT SITE AND IT WAS LIKE TOTALLY DESERTED WAS BY MYSELF AT THAT TIM KN WHANYB WAS IT WAS
UNREAL WALKED AND BASICALLY YOU COULDNT SEE YOUR HAND IN FRONT OF YOU
OUTSIDE AND WAS ENGULFED IN SMOKE AND STUFF WALKED AROUND
WANTED TO SEE WHAT HAPPENED

WRIGHT
AS GOT CLOSER TO THAT SITE ALL HEARD WAS MOANING AND SOME PEOPLE THAT WERE LYING DOWN NEAR THE
SITE NEAR THE RUBBLE THEY WERE BLEEDING SEEN
LOT OF PEOPLE BLEEDING FROM THE MOUTH THE NOSE THEY WAS CALLING ON ME HELP ME HELP ME HAD NO
EQUIPMENT MY BUS IS GONE MY BUS IS COVERED THEY
WAS JUST SCREAMING HELP ME THERE IS NOTHING COULD DO FOR THEM EXCEPT FOR THOSE FIREMEN THAT WAS OUT
THERE THAT WAS JUST WALKING AROUND MEAN JUST IN TOTAL AWE AND LIKE GOD MAN THEY DIDNT KNOW WHERE
THEY WERE THEY HAD BLOOD EVERYWHERE BUT YOU KNOW THEY WERE WALKING WOUNDED
ITS CRAZY HOW THEY WERE JUST WALKING AROUND LIKE THEY DIDNT KNOW WHERE THEY WERE WAS BASICALLY AT THAT TIME WAS GRABBING THEM AND BRINGING THEM TO
SAFETY AND
WHERE DID YOU BRING THEM TO
THERE WAS BUILDING THERE WAS ANOTHER
STAGING AREA WE WERE BRINGING SICK PEOPLE PEOPLE
THAT WAS INJURED THERE WAS PARAMEDIC THAT WAS UNDER
VEHICLE IN THE RUBBLE WENT BACK TO THE SITE WE STR RAN AND HIM WAS ALIV
HE WASNT INJURED
DO YOU KNOW WHO HE WAS

WRIGHT
FORGOT HIS NAME IT WILL COME BACK TO ME DOES HE WORK AT THIS STATION
YES HE IS AT THIS STATION ANYWAY HE WAS COUGHING HE REALLY COULDNT GET HIS BREATH HE WAS TOTALLY COVERED IN SOOT AND ALL AND HE TOTALLY BREATHED IT IN SO WHEN WE BROUGHT HIM TO THAT TRIAGE AREA
CORNER
DO YOU KNOW WHERE THAT TRIAGE AREA WAS IM NOT SURE IT WAS RIGHT AROUND THE
IF YOU LOOKED ON THE MAP WOULD THAT HELP YOU
OR NOT REALLY
IT WAS RIGHT THERE IT WAS THIS BUILDING
THINK IT WAS THIS BUILDING
YOU BROUGHT HIM INTO BUILDING WHERE THERE
WAS TRIAGE
THIS BUILDING
WAS IT THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING ON THE CORNER OF VESEY
THINK IT WAS BY THE WATER THINK IT WAS
THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING YES IT HAD TO BE THATS WH BR HIM
BROUGHT HIM IN THERE THEN HE WAS BASICALLY COUGHING HE WAS VOMITING AND AFTER HE STARTED GETTING

WRIGHT
BETTER YOU KNOW HE WANTED TO GET UP AND HE WAS SO GAVE HIM SOME WATER OXYGEN YOU KNOW HE DIDNT WANT
HE JUST WANTED TO GO BACK OUT THERE SO AFTER SEEN THAT HE WAS ALL
RIGHT BY HIMSELF WENT BACK OUT THERE SO THE SAME SCENARIO
THOSE GUYS FIREMEN WALKING AROUND THE SCENE YOU SEEN LIEUTENANTS ALL THIS BIG BRASS WALKING AROUND EVERYBODY JUST IN LA LA LAND SO BASICALLY WAS THERE JUST STILL DOING THE SAME THING TRYING TO GET THEN TO SAFETY
THEN ALL OF SUDDEN THAT EARTHQUAKE SOUND AGAIN AND KNEW WHAT IT WAS YOU KNOW THE SECOND
BUILDING WAS COMING DOWN SINCE HEARD THAT SOUND KNEW SO STARTED RUNNING THATS ONE OF THE THINGS ONE OF THE REASONS THAT COULDNT SLEEP BECAUSE THERE WERE STILL PEOPLE THERE ALIVE DONT KNOW IF THEY WERE BURIED IN THE SECOND ONE THERE WAS PEOPLE
THAT ARE SCREAMING TO ME HELP ME PATIENTS THAT WAS THERE THAT WE COULDNT DO ANYTHING ABOUT
THEN WE HEARD THAT SECOND RUMBLE AND JUST STARTED RUNNING YOU KNOW THAT CLOUD JUST WAS CHASING
OF AFT THAT
MATTER OF FACT RAN INTO THE SAME BUILDING WHERE
WE WAS TRIAGING
CL
AS

WRIGHT
AFTER THAT DIDNT GO BACK THERE COULDNT GO BACK
DID YOU STAY IN THE AMERICAN EXPRESS
BUILDING
STAYED THERE THEN WENT TO AS MATTER OF FACT THE LIEUTENANTS THERE THEY WOULDNT LET ANYBODY
GO BACK THEY SENT ME WITH SOME PATIENTS TO THE HOSPITALS LIKE SAID WAS SPLIT UP DIDNT HAVE
PARTNER AT THAT TIME DIDNT KNOW HOW WAS GOING TO GET HOME YOU KNOW BACK TO MY STATION
AT THAT TIME THAT WAS BASICALLY IT AFTER WENT TO THE HOSPITAL CAME BACK TO THERE WAS ANOTHER
STAGING AREA IT WAS ON IT WAS WAY UP ON THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY THERE WAS LIKE THOUSAND AMBULANCES
WAS IT THE CHELSEA PIER
YES
OR PIER 94
YES
WHICH ONE
IM NOT SURE
YOU DONT REMEMBER
INAUDIBLI
OKAY
THERE WAS LOT OF AMBULANCES THERE MET

UP WITH
WRIGHT
COUPLE OF GUYS FROM MY STATION
WHO WERE THEY DO YOU REMEMBER THEIR NAMES
THERE WAS ANDRE
CHERRINGTON
CHERRINGTON AND HIS PARTNER THAT WAS THE ONE THAT WAS IN THE RUBBLE HE CAME BACK
ANDRES PARTNER THAT DAY YES WHATS HIM NAME
SUAREZ NO
SMILEY
SMILEY IT WAS ME ANDRE SMILEY AND WHO ELSE DID WE HAVE THERE DONT REMEMBER WHO ELSE IT
WAS ME ANDRE AND SMILEY
DID YOU EVER FIND YOUR PARTNER THAT DAY NO
WHO WERE YOU WORKING WITH THAT DAY JACKSON THEN AFTER THAT AS MATTER OF
FACT THAT WAS ABOUT HOURS LATER WE MET UP THEN WE WENT BACK ME AND JACKSON WENT BACK WE DIDNT HAVE
OUR AMBULANCE THAT WAS WHAT IT WAS OUR AMBULANCE WAS STILL IN TH RUBBLI DIDNT HAV AMLULANC
WE HAD TO SPLIT UP WHILE WE WERE STILL TOGETHER THEN WE WENT BACK TO THE SITE WE WAS ON
10

OKAY
SO THAT WAS BASICALLY
COME DOWN IT WAS ON FIRE FIRST FLOOR WAS ON FIRE THEY SAID
WE WATCHED THAT ONE
THINK THE FOURTH WE WERE LIKE ARE YOU
WRIGHT
WE WENT TO DIFFERENT STAGING AREA WE WAS BY LET ME SEE THAT MAP WE WERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF WHAT WAS
THE LAST BUILDING THAT COLLAPSED
WE WAS RIGHT THERE THAT WAS BUILDING YOU WERE AT TRIAGE AREA THERE OR
WE MADE OUR OWN TRIAGE AREA THERE WAS
COUPLE OF MORE AMBULANCES LIKE AMBULANCES
YOU WERE IN ANOTHER VEHICLE THEN WHEN YOU
WENT OVER THERE YES
DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT VEHICLE NUMBER IT WAS NO
GUYS GOING TO PUT THAT FIRE OUT WAS LIKE YOU KNOW THEY ARE GOING TO WAIT FOR IT TO BURN DOWN AND IT
COLLAPSED SO THATS WHEN KNEW HIGH RISE BUILDINGS YOU KNOW INAUDIBLE
THE AFTERNOON YES
TH WH BUILDING CAM IN
11

WRIGHT
YOU WERE STILL THERE
YES SO BASICALLY THEY MEASURED OUT HOW FAR
THE BUILDING WAS GOING TO COME SO WE KNEW EXACTLY WHERE WE COULD STAND
SO THEY JUST PUT YOU IN SAFE AREA SAFE ENOUGH FOR WHEN THAT BUILDING CAME DOWN
BLOCKS BLOCKS AWAY WE STILL COULD SEE EXACTLY RIGHT ON POINT THE CLOUD JUST STOPPED
RIGHT THERE THEN WHEN THAT BUILDING WAS COMING DOWN THE SAME THING THAT SAME RUMBLING THATS WHY LIKE FOR COUPLE OF WEEKS EVERY LITTLE SOUND THAT
HEARD IT WAS UNREAL
WHAT TIME DID YOU FINALLY GET OFF THAT DAY GOT OFF LEFT AT 11 OCLOCK
AT NIGHT FROM OVER THERE YES
AND CAME BACK HERE
11 OCLOCK
ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO ADD OR
NO
MS BASTEDENBECK THIS CONCLUDES MY
INT 1550 HOURS
WITH WRIGHT TH TIM IS
12

FILE NO 9110055
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW CHIEF THOMAS MCCARTHY
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 11 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY NANCY FRANCIS

MCCARTHY
MR MCALLISTER THIS IS KEVIN MCALLISTER FROM THE BUREAU OF ADMINISTRATION ITS OCTOBER 11TH AT 1504 HOURS WERE AT HEADQUARTERS IN THE COMMISSIONERS CONFERENCE ROOM IM
JOINED BY ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY ASSISTANT
COMMISSIONER JAMES DRURY
MR MCALLISTER AND WERE HERE WITH CHIEF
THOMAS MCCARTHY
CHIEF MCCARTHY WED LIKE TO DRAW YOUR
ATTENTION TO SEPTEMBER 11 2001 AND GET YOUR RECOLLECTIONS OF THAT DAY
OKAY AFTER FINDING OUT ABOUT THE PLANE CRASH AT THE BUILDING GOT IN TOUCH WITH
HEADQUARTERS EDDIE MORIARTY ANSWERED AND TOLD ME TO GO TO SHOPS GET THE LIST OF THE SPARE RIGS AND WHERE
THEYRE LOCATED
CHIEF WERE YOU WORKING THAT DAY OR WERE YOU
OFF
HOME
WAS OFF
SO YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT THE PLANE CRASH AT
AB IT SO THEN HEADED OVER TO SHOPS GOT THE LIST
AT MY WIF HAD SHE SAW IT ON TV

MCCARTHY
COULDNT GET THROUGH THE PHONE LINES WERE DOWN SO JUST FAXED IT OVER AND THAT WENT THROUGH ONE OF THE
BUILDINGS COLLAPSED WHEN WAS AT THE SHOPS SO GOT IN THE CAR AND TOOK OFF GOT MY FIRE GEAR HEADED
INTO THE CITY BECAUSE IT WAS ON THE WAY HOME GOING
FROM THE SHOPS THROUGH QUEENS GOT MY GEAR AND WENT TO THE FOOT OF THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE GOT RIDE OVER THE
BRIDGE AND HEADED TO VESEY AND BROADWAY
CHIEF HARING WAS JUST STARTING TO SET COMMAND POST HE MADE ME BATTALION 99 HAD ONE
HANDIE TALKIE AND AS QUYS FILTERED IN FROM DIFFERENT
COMPANIES ALL VOLUNTEERS HAD ABOUT TWELVE GUYS THREE OF THEM OFFICERS SO TEAMED GUYS UP WITH
OFFICERS SO DIDNT LOSE THEM
AS WE WENT DOWN VESEY STREET WE CAME ACROSS
ESU TRUCKS AND POLICE VEHICLES THAT WERE ON FIRE AND IN SOME OF THEM THE BULLETS WERE STARTING TO GO OFF WE
WENT OVER TO THE VEHICLES AND TOOK WHATEVER TOOLS WE COULD BECAUSE WE HAD NO TOOLS ORIGINALLY OUR ASSIGNMENT WAS AL FUENTES WHO WAS TRAPPED IN HIS CAR AND WE WERE SUPPOSED TO HEAD TO THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY AND HIM
BATT SAWS SOME FLASHLIGHTS REPELLING ROPES AND ANY HAND TOOLS WE
COULD GET
UP

MCCARTHY
WHEN WE GOT TO THE NEXT CORNER ANOTHER ESU VEHICLE WAS PARKED THERE SOME GENTLEMAN WAS DEAD IN THE STREET WE CHECKED HIS PULSE LEFT HIM THERE AND TOOK MASK AN ESU MASK THAT WAS THERE
THIS WAS AT THE CORNER OF VESEY AND WEST NOW
NO NOT WEST IM TRYING TO THINK THE NEXT BLOCK DOWN
CHURCH
THE NEXT BLOCK WAS AT CHURCH
WERE EITHER OF THE TOWERS STANDING AT THAT
POINT
ACTUALLY WHEN WAS IN TRANSIT THE SECOND ONE WENT DOWN SO THEYRE BOTH DOWN WHEN GOT TO
THE SCENE IT WAS JUST CLOUD OF CEMENT DUST AND JUST BLACK AS YOU GOT TO THE SCENE IT WAS BLACK CAR
FIRES COUPLE OF SMALL STORES HAD FIRES IN THE FRONT JUST SPORADIC FIRES AROUND PAPERS FLOATING AROUND AND AS YOU GOT TO THE COMMAND POST AND LOOKED FURTHER DOWN BROADWAY IT WAS JUST COMPLETELY BLACK
CHIEF WHAT TIME DID YOU GET THERE ABOUT
IM GUESSING QUARTER OF 1100 OR SO
AND TH HAD UP AT THAT
POINT AT PARK ROW AND BROADWAY YES

MCCARTHY
RIGHT NEAR ST PAULS CHAPEL
RIGHT CHIEF HARING WAS JUST THERE WITH
THINK CHRIS WALL NO IT COULDNT HAVE BEEN CHRIS IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN CHRIS IM NOT SURE THOUGHT SAW
HIM THERE THEY JUST HAD GOTTEN THERE AND THEY HAD NOTHING THEY WERE TRYING TO PUT COMMAND POST TOGETHER HE DID GREAT JOB
WHAT DID THE STREETS LOOK LIKE AT THAT POINT
PAPER EVERYWHERE PROBABLY UP TO YOUR ANKLES IN CEMENT DUST EVERYWHERE JUST PAPER FLOATING AROUND
COVERINQ THE STREET AND THAT BLACKNESS WAS OVER THERE
CLOUD JUST AS MUCH AS YOU COULD SEE EVERYTHING WAS BLACK WHERE THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WAS
LOST LOT OF GUYS GUYS WOULD STOP AND
HELP PULL LOAD LINES THEY WERE JUST FILLING IN WHEREVER THEY COULD PUTTING OUT SOME CAR FIRES
WORKING ON COUPLE OF PEOPLE WHO WERE DEAD TRYING TO GET THEM OUT WENT FURTHER DOWN
ARE THESE CIVILIANS OR FIREFIGHTERS CIVILIANS ALL CIVILIANS
WE GOT FURTHER DOWN TO THE OVERPASS THAT AND TRAD TRAD
UP THE STAIRS THERE ACROSS THAT AREA HAD ANOTHER FIREFIGHTER WITH ME AT THAT POINT AND THERE WAS

MCCARTHY
CIVILIAN UP THERE HE GAVE ME HIS NAME JOHN DRUSSO OR JOHN RUSSO HE WAS LAYING FACE DOWN UNDER WORLD TRADE SO WE HELPED HIM ACROSS THE BEAMS
DID YOU KNOW HIM
NO WE HEARD GUY CALLING OUT TALKED TO
HIM BECAUSE WE PUT OUR ARMS AROUND HIM ON EITHER SIDE HE WAS BIG GUY SO IT TOOK TWOOF US TO GET HIM OUT
WE TRIED TO DANCE HIM ACROSS THE BEAMS AND TAKE HIM DOWN SOME EMS PERSONNEL WERE COMING AND SOME OTHER GUYS SO WE LEFT HIM THERE AND WENT BACK UP
THERE WERE THREE MASKS THERE WE SHUT OFF THE PASS ALARMS SO NO ONE WENT UP THERE TO SEARCH FOR THEM THAT AREA BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDINGS WAS JUST ALL GLASS PIECES OF BUILDING FIRE AND EVERYTHING WAS RAINING DOWN STILL GLASS WAS COMING DOWN PIECES OF FIRE SO WE DIDNT GO THAT WAY
THINK AT THAT POINT WENT AROUND TO CHURCH
STREET THERE WERE NO CHIEFS THERE AND JUST WANTED
TO KEEP THE GUYS AWAY THEY HAD TRIED TO SET UP
STANG BUT THEY HAD NO WATER PRESSURE AND NO REACH SO
JUST KEPT EVERYONE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF CHURCH STREET TH SAFT SID GUYS INT TH MILLINNIUM
TO SEARCH THE HOTEL AND SOME GUYS INTO CENTURYS TO SEARCH THE STORE

MCCARTHY
211 RIG SHOWED UP BRIAN CORCORAN FROM 50 ENGINE AND HES REAL SHARP HE TRIED TO HOOK UP TO THE STANDPIPE SYSTEM OF THE MILLENNIUM TO GET WATER SUPPLY BECAUSE WE HAD NO WATER SUPPLY RIG ON THE CORNER WAS JUST THERE WAS HOOKED UP BUT IT HAD NO WATER AND THAT STARTED TO BURN WE WERE TRYING TO PUT THAT OUT
DO YOU KNOW WHICH COMPANY THAT RIG BELONGED
TO
NO DIDNT SEE NUMBER JUST SAW THE BACK END OF IT THEN AT THAT POINT WE HAD REPORTS OF PEOPLE ON THE PATH TRAIN AND THEY NEEDED HELP DOWN THERE HAD SENT GUYS AROUND TO DIFFERENT RIGS TO JUST GATHER UP ALL THE TOOLS THEY COULD SO WE HAD SUPPLY RIGHT THERE SO SENT SOME GUYS TO GRAB TOOLS HAND TOOLS AND HEAD DOWN THERE IM TRYING TO THINK WHAT HAPPENED AT THAT POINT
WERE THEY ABLE TO GET INTO THE PATH TUNNEL THE UNITS THAT WERE DOWN THERE WERE CALLING
FOR HELP THE GUYS SENT DONT KNOW IF THEY GOT THERE THINK THEY GOT THERE IN TIME TO HELP BUT
TH SAW TH PR MUCH FAR AKNG WITH TH
RESCUE AND THEY EITHER GOT SOMEBODY OUT DONT KNOW
IF THEY WERE DEAD OR ALIVE BUT CALLED DOWN THERE AND

MCCARTHY
THEY SAID THEY DIDNT NEED ANY MORE HELP SO DONT KNOW WHAT THE OUTCOME WAS
AT THAT POINT HAD EVERYONE PRETTY MUCH ON THE SAFE SIDE OF THE BUILDINGS ANOTHER CHIEF CAME
SO AT THAT POINT WENT AROUND TO THE PLAZA AREA THAT
HAD COLLAPSED WHEN GOT BACK THERE THE BRIDGE TO WORLD TRADE HAD COLLAPSED IN FRONT OF IT THAT FRONT
AREA RIGHT IN THE PLAZA SO WE WENT THROUGH BECAUSE GUYS WERE TELLING ME THEY HEARD PASS ALARMS IN THE HALL IN THE PLAZA ON THE OTHER SIDE OF SO DIDNT THINK ANYONE WAS THERE BUT JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE QOT THESE GUYS OUT BECAUSE GUYS WERE TRYING TO DO CRAZY STUFF
SO WE WENT OVER THERE AND YOU COULD SEE THE WORLD TRADE FACADE WAS THERE AND THOUGHT THAT THING
MIGHT COME DOWN SO JUST SAID LETS GET OUT OF HERE THERE WERE NO PASS ALARMS IT WAS JUST THE GUYS WHO
WANTED TO DO SO MUCH THAT LOT OF IT WAS MORE GOOD INTENTIONS THAN GOOD SENSE WE GOT THOSE GUYS OUT OF THERE
AT ONE POINT WAS WORKING WITH ESU GUYS WE HAD FRUR ESU GUYS WH US
CHURCH STREET AS WE CAME DOWN FROM THE PLAZA WE WENT INTO THE CONCOURSE AND IM SORRY AFTER THAT

MCCARTHY
COLLAPSED HAD ESU GUYS WITH ME AND PROBABLY ABOUT
SIX GUYS WE TRIED TO GO UNDERNEATH INTO THE CONCOURSE
LEVEL TO SEE IF WE HAD ACCESS YOU COULDNT IT WAS JUST ALL CONCRETE SLABS OF CONCRETE AND THEN WE
SEARCHED THE PORT AUTHORITY THE PORT AUTHORITY POLICE HAD SUBSTATION THERE SO WE SEARCHED THAT MADE SURE
ALL THOSE GUYS WERE OUT WE WENT BACK OUT TO THE STREET AND ESU GUYS THANKED US AND THEY WERE GOING TO LOOK FOR THEIR GUYS AND WE WERE GOING TO HEAD AROUND LIBERTY
AT THAT POINT RAN INTO BUNCH OF QUYS WHO WANTED TO GET BACK
WERE YOU EAST OF THE SITE OR WEST OF THE SITE AT THAT TIME
WAS RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEN
GOT IT
AND THEN BUNCH OF GUYS WANTED TO FIND THE
ENTRANCE TO THE PLAZA FROM THAT SIDE SO TOOK THEM AROUND BOBBY HIGGINS WAS THERE THEN SO WE WENT OUT INTO THAT RUBBLE BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDINGS AND WENT AROUND IT WAS POINTLESS THERE WAS NO REASON TO BE
TH TH FL
PITCHED AND AT THAT POINT IM LOSING CONFIDENCE IN THE BUILDING SO WE CAME OUT
IN HAD CRACK AND TH

MCCARTHY
THINK BOBBY AND MYSELF AND ANOTHER GUY WENT HE THOUGHT PEOPLE WERE ON THE SECOND FLOOR SO WE WENT UP AND SEARCHED COUPLE FLOORS IN HE WAS
FOR HIS BROTHER SO THEN WENT WITH HIM COUPLE OF CHIEFS WERE ALREADY ON CHURCH STREET SO
WENT WITH HIM AROUND LIBERTY AND THAT WAS JUST MASSIVE RUBBLE IN FRONT OF 10 AND 10 SO WE WENT ON THE SIDE STREET AND WENT AROUND TO WEST STREET
AT THAT POINT WAS EXHAUSTED RAN INTO FRIEND OF MINE FROM OEM AND JUST SAT DOWN WITH HIM AND TRIED TO CATCH MY BREATH BOBBY KEPT QOINQ IM TRYING TO REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED AT THAT POINT THEY WERE SENDING SOME GUYS IN CHIEF HAYDEN WAS SENDING SOME GUYS IN AND HE JUST TOLD ME TO STAY OUTSIDE
LEFT THEN WALKED AROUND THE BUILDING TO
GO BACK TO THE COMMAND POST AND THATS WHEN THEY WERE WAITING FOR WORLD TRADE TO COME DOWN DIDNT KNOW
THEY WERE WAITING AT THAT TIME CALLED IN THEY HAD THREE FLOORS OF FIRE ON THREE SEPARATE FLOORS PROBABLY 10 11 AND 15 IT LOOKED LIKE JUST BURNING MERRILY IT WAS PRETTY AMAZING YOU KNOW ITS THE AFTERNOON IN
MANHATTAN MAJ HIGH RISC IS BURNING AND TH SAID WE KNOW THINK THEY SAID THEY HAD SEVEN TO TEN FLOORS THAT WERE FREESTANDING AND THEY WERENT GOING TO
LOOKING
10

MCCARTHY
SEND ANYONE IN
WENT AROUND TO THE COMMAND POST
SO THIS IS LATE AFTERNOON AT THIS POINT YES ITS PROBABLY AROUND 600 OCLOCK
SO WHEN GET TO THE COMMAND POST THEY JUST HAD FLOOD OF GUYS STANDING THERE THEY WERE JUST
SO DIDNT WANT TO STAND AROUND WENT BACK TO HEADQUARTERS WALKED OVER STARTED TO WALK OVER THE BRIDGE AND HOOKED RIDE ON BUS AND WENT
BACK TO HEADQUARTERS AND STARTED HELPING OUT HERE WITH LOGISTICS
WHEN YOU SAY YOU WENT TO PACE TO GET YOUR
EYES WASHED OUT YOU MEAN PACE UNIVERSITY
YES THEY HAD TRIAGE CENTER THERE
RIGHT YOU SAID YOU MADE IT DOWN TO WEST STREET DID YOU EVER SEE THE AREA NEAR OR AROUND THE
WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER WHERE THE FDNY COMMAND POST HAD BEEN BEFORE THE COLLAPSE
FOR TO COME DOWN SO WENT OVER TO PACE
WAITING
GOT MY EYES WASHED AND WENT BACK JUST STANDING AROUND
STR
SAYING DONT STAND UNDER THERE ITS GOING TO COME
MAD IT
FRONT OF THE OVERPASS OF WORLD TRADE PEOPLE WERE
JUST IN
11

12
AROUND THE AREA WE TOOK THAT CIVILIAN OUT OF HAD ALL
COLLAPSED THAT WASNT THERE ANYMORE
SO AT THAT POINT WE WERE LITTLE LEERY ABOUT
HOW THE BRIDGE WAS TIED IN SO NO ONE WAS REALLY GOING ONTO IT AND THEN THEY WERE ALSO SAYING WAS GOING TO COME DOWN THEY CHASED EVERYONE OFF THE BLOCK
YOU SAID BEFORE CHIEF THAT YOU HEARD
BULLETS GOING OFF APPROXIMATELY HOW MANY DID YOU HEAR
OH IT WAS LIKE IT WAS JUST CONSTANT CONSTANT WHATEVER GUESS THERE WERE PACKAGES OR SOMETHING AND AS THEY HEATED UP THEY WERE JUST POP POP POP POP POP POP POP THEY WERE GOING OFF LIKE AT STEADY RATE
AND THATS WHEN YOU WERE NEAR WORLD TRADE
CENTER
THAT WAS ON VESEY STREET WEST OF BROADWAY THATS WHERE ESU HAD PARKED NUMBER OF VEHICLES RIGHT OUTSIDE THE CHURCH
MCCARTHY
DOWN AND THEN BY THE TIME MADE IT BACK AROUND WENT TO THE FRONT ON CHURCH STREET AND CAME BACK
SOMETHING
AND UP BACK AT
YES WENT BACK HERE JUST SO COULD DO

MCCARTHY
AT SOME POINT IN TIME WERE YOU INFORMED THAT
FIRST DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FEEHAN AND CHIEF OF
DEPARTMENT GANCI WERE AMONG THE MISSING
HAD HEARD THAT DONT KNOW AT WHAT POINT
HEARD THAT BUT WHEN LEFT PACE HEARD ONE RADIO TRANSMISSION THAT SAID FEEHAN WAS IN AN AMBULANCE SO
THOUGHT HE WAS OKAY AT THAT POINT BUT THEY MUST
HAVE DONT KNOW DONT KNOW HOW THAT
TRANSMISSION CAME OVER BUT HEARD HE WAS IN AN AMBULANCE SO THOUGHT HE WAS OKAY HE WAS IN AN AMBULANCE AT LEAST ALIVE THATS PROBABLY THE FIRST KNEW OF FEEHAN AND DIDNT REALLY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT GANCI NOW THAT IM THINKING BACK ON IT PROBABLY WOULDNT HAVE KNOWN ANYTHING ABOUT IT DONT KNOW IF
HEARD ANYTHING NO ONE REALLY KNEW ANYTHING GUYS
WERE JUST WANDERING
IT WAS TERRIBLE BECAUSE GUYS WANTED TO DO
SOMETHING THEY DIDNT KNOW WHAT THEY WOULD JUST COME UP TO ME BECAUSE THEY SAW THE WHITE HELMET AND SAY
WANT TO DO THIS WANT TO DO THAT YOU KNOW WELL GET SOME GUYS WELL DO THIS YOU KNOW IT WAS SAD BECAUSE
TH
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY THANKS
KN UR GUYS IN
CHIEF DONT HAVE ANYTHING MORE
13

MCCARTHY
MR MCALLISTER GUESS BEFORE WE CONCLUDE
THE INTERVIEW IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER OBSERVATIONS OR IF
YOU RECALL ANY PEOPLE YOU MIGHT HAVE SEEN THAT DAY WED ASK YOU IF YOU DO AND IF NOT WELL CONCLUDE THE
INTERVIEW
CHIEF MCCARTHY OFFHAND NO THINK THATS ALL THAT COMES TO MIND RIGHT NOW
MR MCALLISTER THANK YOU VERY MUCH CHIEF CHIEF MCCARTHY OKAY
MR MCALLISTER
AQAIN ITS 15 HOURS 19 MINUTES
CONCLUDE THE INTERVIEW THANK YOU
ITS KEVIN MCALLISTER HERE WERE QOINQ TO
14

File No. 9110056
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW PARAMEDIC GEORGE BURBANO
Interview Date: October 11, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason

G. BURBANO
MR. TAMBASCO: Today is October 11. The time is 1449 hours. My name is Mike Tambasco assigned to the World Trade Center Task Force. I'm here conducting an interview with Paramedic George Burbano in regards to the events of September 11 at the World Trade Center.
Q. Mr. Burbano, I just ask you to give me your
name, rank and then tell me your story.
A. My name is George Burbano. I'm a Paramedic,
Battalion 22 on Staten Island.
Q. Just feel free to tell me what happened from
the beginning to the end.
A. That morning I left BHS, I left headquarters
atsometimearound8:20,8:30inthemorning. Iwas going into Manhattan.
Q. You weren't on duty, right?
A. I wasn't on duty initially, no. I was going into Manhattan to meet a friend of mine at the World Trade Center. We were going into midtown. I hopped on the 2 train some time around quarter to nine and within minutes after that, we went one stop to Chambers Street and they stopped the train and they asked everybody to get out of the train and we left at Chambers Street. We walked out and when I came out at Chambers Street, I

G . BURBANO
saw the one building on fire. Actually we saw mostly just smoke.
Then within -- we are watching it and I started walking down towards the Center, and then within minutes after that, I heard a second explosion.
At that point I literally ran down to the Center when I got to -- I came down Chambers Street. I down Church.
Q. Church?
A. Yes, I came down this way, I came down Barclay Street. I came across West, came by the buildings down Vesey Street and went in front of Trade Center. When I came down here there was a debris all around this area.
Q. That's all along Vesey Street?
and came
two the lot of
A. That's right, all along Vesey Street.
was a lot of debris. There was a lot of people that were injured. There were a l o t of people running away from the buildings. I went past most of those people and I went to the front of the World Trade Center.
Q. That would be on West Street?
A. That's right. I was on West Street and at the front of the World Trade Center I saw numerous fire trucks and there was already a few ambulances there. I
There

G. BURBANO
found somewhere around Vesey Street and West Street I ran into Joe Cahill. I told Joe, I said, do you guys need help. I said you know I'm here. I was dressed in regular clothes. I didn't have anything on me. Joe Cahill gave me his sweat shirt that said Cahill on it, which to this day is plowed.
He said, you know, he said I need you to grab some of these guys that are coming in and see if you can set up a triage unit somewhere nearby. He said there are units set up all over the place. We have tons of patients. So myself and about 4 or 5 EMTs, I don't know any of these guys - -
Q. Were they Fire Department EMTs?
A. They were no, they were our unit, EMS EMTs. There was numerous trucks parked all along this - - like from below the pedestrians street all the way up. This way they had parked the ambulances on the left side.
Q. On West Street?
A. That's right. And then he told me to take that ambulance with a few EMTs and if I can go around to the front of the building, to the front of the Trade Center, which would probably - - he led me to believe from the map that it would have been like by 5 World Trade Center, where there were patients all along

here.
G . BURBANO
I grabbed a couple of them. I put them in the ambulance, on to vehicle 307, which was there. I took one of them -- the guy in front of me with me in the front was -- I believe it was a new EMT. He was only on the job a few months and as soon as we pulled away, we heard a large fall of something. It looked to me like it was just like a large chunk of the Center from this side fell on top of this area.
At that point I was going to turn the vehicle around, but there was like a huge cloud of dirt and debris that was just coming to us, and I pulled away.
I went up West Street with a few of the EMTs in there. As we went up West Street there was numerous EMS personnel. Of course we were a l l running up the street now .
When we got like somewhere around Murray Street, I ran into a supervisor there who I used to work with, actually, a couple of years ago, Marty Miller and a couple of other supervisors. There was a Chief also there, but I don't remember his name.
At that point I opened up the back of the truck. A lot of that cloud of dust had settled in and they had pulled out a police officer who was with a

G. BURBANO
Scott packing and everything. He couldn't breathe and we put him in the back of the ambulance right there on that corner.
We met up with some St. Vincent's ambulances there also. One of the girl - - I know her by first name. I don't know her last name. Her name is Ernestine. She is a medic out of St. Vinny's. She used to work here on Staten Island with us as BLS out of St. Vincent Staten Island. Now she is a medic in Manhattan. I ran into her there and we took that cop and carried him over to the ambulance. We put him in the back of the ambulance. I started him on a treatment. The BLS crew was there.
Then within sometime after that, there was more debris that was falling. There was like another cloud, so we moved up further. We went up further with the ambulance. That police officer - - we actually got into a little bit of a verbal thing, because he wanted to go back and we told him you should not go back. He couldn't breathe. We had to literally carry him up to begin with. He started running back and then soon after that, he - - I was - - the radio - - the ambulance was open and all we heard on the radio was that the building was collapsing. The building was collapsing.

G. BURBANO
Q. You didn't happen to get a name on the police officer, did you?
A. I didn't get his name. He was one of the ESU guys. He was in his 40s. You know, we started him on a treatment and then he took off out of the ambulance and he started running down West Street and we actually followed him. I actually grabbed him. I tried to put him back in the truck and we couldn't do that. The guy couldn't breathe. Actually I saw that. That was - - they actually caught that on videotape. It was on the one of the news shows when I was there. We saw that on video.
We started sort of making our way back because a lot of that dust settled.
Q. Going back south?
A. Going back south towards the Center. There was patients that were in that area that were covered in smoke and dust and all that other stuff that was on them. There was another ambulance that was left there and it was left wide open, so I hopped on that vehicle and moved that vehicle on forward.
Q. Went north with that.
A. That's right. Went north with that, and met with them somewhere around, I guess like Warren Street,

G. BURBANO
where there is that - - a parking lot outside. Then as soon as that happened, we saw the second building go down.
At that point when the second building went down, we moved further, everybody hopped in the ambulances and we moved further - - there was a police chief who was actually running towards the Center and we actually almost tackled this guy, because he was running towards the building when that second building collapsed and we grabbed him and we put him in the ambulance with us and we ended up down by Canal Street, so we went all the way up north to Canal Street.
After the two buildings were down, we - - I took those EMTs that were with me initially. I hopped in the back of the ambulance along with a whole bunch of others. We had about 12 people in the ambulance at that point, and cut across the east side, trying to get down Church. We couldn't get down Church, so we just kept - - crossed behind City Hall over to the east side because we were told to report to the ferry terminal at that point.
We came down to the ferry terminal. At the ferry terminal I ran into some people that I knew from actually, you know, Staten Island, Mark Cohen and

G. BURBANO
Katherine Zarr, who was having trouble breathing and we started treating her at the ferry terminal. Her partner was initially missing, Mark Harris. We didn't know where he was because apparently they were like somewhere near the building when the first building started coming down. We started treating her and then for the rest of the day we just started treating people that were coming down to the ferry. That was it.
But as far as the time line goes, I know that I got on the subway sometime like around 25 to 9, somewhere around that time, and it was just a few minutes. I mean I figured I waited for the subway for a few minutes, then I got on the 2 train and then went one stop and they kicked us out.
By the time I ran down, it was when - - pretty much when I got - - I must have been a few blocks away, so I was probably like somewhere around Barclay Street when the second building got hit. I didn't see the building get hit. We just heard the building got hit. Then I came across this way and I came to - - towards the front of the World Trade Center.
ImeanIsaw-- whenIgotinfronttherewas tons of fire units, EMS personnel, a lot of voluntary personnel were there. There was a couple of

G. BURBANO
Metropolitan ambulances that I noticed as I walked by. The EMS ambulances were parked basically from the front of the World Trade Center here all the way under the pedestrian bridge that way.
Q. So from the north tower basically going north on West Street?
A. Yes. They were all parked from the north tower right in front, because I ended up going behind what's 6 World Trade Center, which I never knew what number that was, but I ended up going behind the 6 World Trade Center, came in front of the building here where the old hotel was and that's where they had set up a lot of those command centers right there.
When that first wall collapsed, I just pulled away from there. I mean I just pulled away from there when that wall collapsed, and at that point, one of the EMTs who was with me in the front who was very upset, you know, he said, you know, should we go back, should we go back. I said we can't go back at this point. We didn't know what the damage was, but we knew that a lot of those people were probably injured or at least
(inaudible),but that's basically it.
After that we made our way to the ferry
terminal. I don't remember what time after that to be
G-. BURBANO
honest with you. I lost complete track of time after that until 1:30, 2:00, I think it was, when I finally ~hroughLO my wife.
, b u ~L ~ ~ L b'aSsically i ~ . Q. Okay, George. Is there anything else you
might want to add to this?
A. No, that's basically it.
MR. TAMBASCO: I thank you for your interview and the interview will be concluded at 1459 hours.


File No. 9110057
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW PARAMEDIC MARK HARRIS Interview Date: October 11, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason

M. HARRIS
MR. TAMBASCO: Today i s October 11, 2001.
The time i s 1509 hours. I ' m Mike Tambasco assigned to the World Trade Center Task Force. Conducting an interview with Paramedic Mark Harris of Battalion 22. We are in the conference room at Division 5. This interview is in reference to the events that were witnessed by Paramedic Harris on September 11, 2001.
Q. Mark, if you could, tell me your story.
A. We got sent, I don't remember the exact time
when we got sent, but as we got into the tunnel, we were told -- we heard the fact that the -- there was a confirmed plane had gone into tower one and that there were people coming out of the windows and rubble and everything. As we got out of the tunnel --
Q. Who were you working with?
A. Kathy Zarr. As we got out of the tunnel, we looked -- got out -- pulled out of the tunnel and the second plane hit as we pulled out of the tunnel.
Q. You saw it hit?
A. I didn't see it, but we heard the explosion. We heard the explosion and looked up. We then were directed to -- this is North -- South End street. We were directed on down Liberty Street to South End

M . HARRIS
Street and we parked right in Gateway Plaza right behind the World Financial Center at Au Bon Pain. Our vehicle was the second to last vehicle in the line of about 10, in the line of about 10, with the Hatzolah MERV in the corner.
Q. In like the little alcove?
A. In like the little alcove, right. Like a little alcove. There was a bank of phones right on the other side of Liberty Street that will come into play afterwards. We were advised by Chief Grant to set up a triage, a primary or secondary triage center, since we were told there was going to be one inside the Trade Center and then once that came out, the patients would be brought to us.
We were told we would be moved up to approximately the West Side Highway. We set up our equipment, we set up -- actually, we used wrought iron tables at Au Bon Pain as like a makeshift stretch of beds.
I then -- we were there about 10, 15 minutes, maybe a l i t t l e more, talking. We then moved the ambulances about 10 feet further down to allow for more ambulances, since they initially parked parallel to the West Side Highway -- perpendicular to the West Side

M. HARRIS
Highway, we made them parallel, so we could go access out North End Streets down towards any of the hospitals.
We then -- there was no patients as of yet in our sector. I, along with one or two other police officers, walked over to the West Side Highway and we were standing on the planter part of the West Side Highway -- you know there was like a planter.
Q. Like a divide?
A. The divide, right, or planter. We were watching people come down. We were watching people come down. I myself witnessed about 15 or 18 people hit the ground. I saw two firemen -- I'm going to use the word explode, but a body fell on them and they exploded along with the body. They were walking into the Trade Center. I don't know who they were, but I just know that one of them was cut in half and the other one exploded.
We took a step back, because there were parts of the building was falling, which I saw a Port Authority policeman, a few civilians killed by falling debris and also another few firemen as they were going into the building. I don't remember the names or the exact numbers, but I just remember that there was at

M. HARRIS
least two to five people I saw actually get hit by bodies as they came down.
I then proceeded to walk back to tell Chief Grant that I think that we should, you know, that that - - what was happening over here. Chief McCracken was with them, because we were about to set up a triage center right in front of the building. I wanted to relay to them because I didn't know what was going on, but I just saw that, so I walked back and as we walked back, we were sitting there talking and we heard a sound that sounded like a plane - - like you were in the middle of a plane engine.
Everybody looked up and you said oh, no, a third one. That's how loud it was. Then we turned our eyes toward the Trade Center and we saw the top building come down. Unfortunately for me I was in the street at the time with no cover. The only coverage I had was the first ambulance. So I ran. I had my vest on, my bullet resistant vest. I ran. I dove under that ambulance and it started to get buried with rubble.
I dug myself out from underneath the ambulance and I started running towards the back of Au Bon Pain, which at least was a building between us. As

M. HARRIS
my vest can prove, the straps across my back cut, my vest was cut into shreds in the back. It was three different places, there's rips about 4 or 5 inches from where glass went across my body in the back.
We got hit with the glass, debris, and I got knocked over and I then made my way to the side of the building, which luckily was lined up with about 100 bottles of water. I thought I was about to die, because I couldn't breathe. Debris was raining on top ofme. Iwentunderoneofthosewroughtirontables that we had lined, put a stretcher mat over, and I was using that as shelter. I couldn't see anybody or anything around me. I thought I was starting to suffocate because you couldn't breathe because of what was in my mouth, so I started washing my mouth out.
I then - - I had contact lenses in. I figured that there was going to be a heat blast, so I ripped my contacts out. Unfortunately underneath the contacts was cement and I cut my corneas in half. 85 percent in half. It cut my corneas almost completely in half.
The debris stopped shortly afterwards and I ran into Au Bon Pain and started pulling people out that were buried under glass. There was, I think, one or two people that were dead in there. I don't

M. HARRIS
remember exactly. The police officer that I walked up to that he was just telling me about his vacation that he was going on in two days, he was killed.
The Hatzolah MERV was destroyed. The ambulance in front of the one in front of mine that I was on, the ambulance that I was under was damaged. The ambulance in front of that one was destroyed. I don't know whose it was. I think it may have been a Midwood ambulance was destroyed. The Hatzolah MERV was destroyed.
I then ran to try and get people out from under the debris. There was a bunch of Hatzolah people that we pulled out. I started running towards the building, pulling people out as we went. I couldn't see. We had no equipment. We had no nothing.
So the next thing we did is somebody remembered that there was down here, a couple of blocks down, was a little pier, not Liberty Park Pier, but a tiny little pier. There were buildings over here. Two blocks down.
Q. Right. Down like around Rector Street and all?
A. Right. There is a little tiny pier over here with a park. We started evacuating people down the

M. HARRIS
street from the buildings in Battery Park City and we set up an evacuation point on to tug boats. There was an EMS Captain, I ' m not going t o mention names, ran away and cowered and as people will tell you, I assumed command and I said I wanted everybody's EMS name, every EMS person that was there, I wanted to set up two sectors.
We did that, we started -- we evacuated approximately 5,000 people and I even went on the Richmond frequency and -- probably s t i l l on there. I will get in trouble. I tried to tell the Citywide dispatcher. We kept on getting cut off, cut off, cut off. I went on the Richmond frequency and Moshe was the dispatcher. I told him, I said 22 Victor with a priority, 22 Victor, go ahead. I told him, we have an evacuation point set up here. We have injured personnel but we are evacuating to -- evacuating to wherever they evacuated it to. I had no idea where it was. Please advise that there is no officer here, that we just were evacuating people out of the buildings.
I then realized that all our equipment was s t i l l a t the World Financial Center.
Q. Up by Au Bon Pain?
A. Right. So I got into vehicle 145 and I drove

M. HARRIS
up the street to get the equipment. We got up there and I saw John Rothmund up there. He went to his vehicle one way. I put the equipment in my vehicle and approximately then there were about 10 firemen and policemen milling around.
Q. This was all by right by Au Bon Pain over there?
A. Right, right. Milling around. There were people buried at the phone that we pulled their bodies off the phone. That was right across the street. We pulled them out. We didn't pronounce them because it was -- then we heard that wall again, that creak again. We looked up and we saw that the radio tower started to waiver on the second building.
A fireman broke the window to 145 and they piled into the back of that vehicle and this is like the Keystone cops. Five of them, six of them in the back. Two on the bumper, one on the windshield wipers, one holding on to the mirror. We're going back down South End Street towards the only safety we knew, which was the pier.
As we are driving down here everybody in the vehicle, everybody i s screaming, fucking drive, drive, drive, because behind us was the black cloud of the

M. HARRIS
building collapsing.
Q. The second building.
A. Second building collapsing. We drove down
and we had just gotten emptied out. Everybody emptied out when it hit and it knocked all of us down. I mean we were covered. I couldn't see at this time. I couldn't see at all. I had basically vision of
shapes. I found my partner. She evacuated on a boat t o somewhere. I then went and I drove i n vehicle 145 driving around, pulling people out of from under things, I drove along.
Q. Were you going up this --
A. No, Albany. No, it was on this side.
Q. Right.
A. I went up Albany. There is a little parking
garage right over here. Right over here is a parking garage with a taxi in it. I remember the cab. There is a taxi in it, or maybe one of these. We are driving up and we're pulling people out from under the highway, we're pulling firemen out, and they in turn were pulling other people out.
There was one car that was sort of blocking the door to somebody, so a bunch of us pushed the car out of the way. Then on one of these streets I saw an

M . HARRIS
ESU Sergeant, John Engel from ESU i n Brooklyn. He pulled me under a hydrant and washed me off because I was covered. I was out of it and covered and I had no idea where anybody else was. Everybody else had evacuated.
So I ' m driving along the West Side Highway pulling people out, and then we made the turn. I got only as far as approximate -- about Albany Street and I
walked up Q.
A.
were people in our -- I don't know if it was ambulances or if it was -- I think they were ambulances and we pulled them out. We broke a couple of windows on the ambulances. We pulled people out. We pulled people out from -- there was two unmarked people in a sedan that we pulled out. There was a lady in a wheelchair that I pulled out. I don't remember. Then I know there was a couple of other people with me but I wasn't sure who -- I know one was a fireman and one was a cop, but I don't know who exactly they were.
I then -- I was there, I would say -- I got to tell you it seemed like eternity, but I know it was only about an hour, pulling people out. I got as close
towards - -
Towards the Trade Center buildings?
Towards the Trade Center building and there

M. HARRIS
to the building as I could to pull people out. We were then looking for Chief Grant, his aides was panicking. We sort of took her under our wing. Chief Grant we couldn't find. Chief McCracken we couldn't find. We couldn't find anybody. I had no idea where any officers were.
I got as close to the building as I could. There was just body parts and bodies a l l over the place. There was just -- at least 50 to 100 bodies that I saw. I mean not full bodies, I should say, but pieces of bodies. I then drove down the West Side
Highway Q. A.
towards - -
Towards the ferry?
The ferry, and as I made the turn I saw a
vehicle with a Battalion Chief and two people in there. I grabbed Ian Swords and George Orlando, because they were my partners, and we just started walking up t o see i f we could help people. There was nobody that could be helped at the time because everybody was buried. Everything was on f i r e and you just couldn't get close enough.
We then went down to the staging area. I mean they told me what I looked like the next day and they said that they got scared because I was walking

M. HARRIS
along dazed, I couldn't find anybody. I couldn't find anybody. I had no idea where anybody was. It was like a ghost town. You are walking and there is this fog there. You are walking under this fog and you are seeing people and you are going are you okay, and they say yes and you just walking on to the next one. You
a r e going, a r e you okay, yes, and I remember two people I asked are you okay. They weren't okay because they were dead.
I just remember going to the pier and staying there. They tried to send me home three times. I left at 1:30 in the morning. By that time I couldn't see.
I had to have -- I was driven home by -- what's his name. I was seen at St. Vincents, where they gave me some medicine in the eyes and they said -- they diagnosed the next day at the ophthalmologist. They were 85 percent cut. Sliced through and 85 to 90 percent scratched.
Marc Cohen was there also. He was inside the ferry terminal. All I remember is not being able to see and he was going through a whole bottle of
Tylenol. Probably wasn't a good idea but I went home at 1:30 in the morning. I got taken back to the hospital at 12:30, 1o'clock in the morning, after not

M. HARRIS
- - finally I couldn't stand the pain any more. That's basically as far as I can remember. Q. Did I understand you to say something that
you actually saw Chief Ganci at some point?
A. Yes. In between the first and second
collapse when I went back to get the equipment, we walked around and again, I can - - do you want to know the exact time.
Q. No.
A. I'm sorry, sir. I remember specifically seeing the Fire Department command center - - or command post. I remember - - again I don't want to swear to it, but from every recollection I have I remember Chief Ganci being there and him being knocked down and was (inaudible). As far as I remember. It could have been another fireman but I remember somebody saying my god, that was Ganci. I don't want to swear by it, but I know I was there.
Q. I guess on the west side over here somewhere?
A. As far as I can recall, I saw John Peruggia was talking to him and then Peruggia walked away and a couple of minutes after Peruggia walked away, I had come down. I don't remember exactly where it was, but again I don't want to swear by it, but I'm just going

M. HARRIS
by what I saw and what somebody said to me. It was at a Fire Department, what was left of the Fire Department command post and it was a white helmet and I was told by one of the firemen, my god, that was Ganci.
Along with him, I was told that the Chaplain was also killed a few minutes before that. I didn't see him being carried or anything like that, but that
(inaudible).
Q. It was debris that basically hit him?
A. I don't know. The Chaplain or Ganci?
Q. Ganci.
A. I don't know. I know something hit him. One
of the people that I was with said a body hit him. One
of the people said - - all I know is that when something
hit him. I don't want to swear it was a body. I don't
want to swear it was debris, but something hit him. So
--
Q. How is your vision now? A.

I
A. Nice guy, I would imagine not. You know that feeling when you are falling and you wake up right before you fall, when you are sleeping.
Q. Yes.
A. I get that every night.
mean I don'^ even know where LO geL my
M. HARRIS
Q. Mark, is there anything e-lse that you would like to add to that. Any feelings, anything that you want?
16

M. HARRIS
(inaudible) vest repaired. My vest from the glass going across my back, the back of the vest is all cut in four or five places. And the cover. I had - - I cleaned out my trunk yesterday. This belt still has white stuff from the Trade Center. But that's about it.
MR. TAMBASCO: Mark, listen, I thank you for the information and for the story. We will conclude the interview at 1531 hours. Once again, thank you.

FILE NO 9110058
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW PARAMEDIC MARC COHEN
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 11 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY NANCY FRANCIS

COHEN
MR RADENBERG TODAYS DATE IS OCTOBER 11TH 2001 THE TIME IS 1505 HOURS AND THIS IS PAUL RADENBERG OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT CITY OF NEW YORK
AM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH
MR COHEN PARAMEDIC MARC COHEN SHIELD 2093 BATTALION 22 EMS COMMAND
MR RADENBERG OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK WE ARE CURRENTLY AT SEAVIEW HOSPITAL BATTALION 22 THIS INTERVIEW IS REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
IF YOUD START WITH WHERE YOU WERE AT THE TIME OF THE FIRST IMPACT THE FIRST PLANE
MY PARTNER AND KENNY DAVIS WHO IS ALSO PARAMEDIC HERE AT EMS BATTALION 22 WE WERE IN THE
ABOUT 700 OCLOCK THAT WAS THE
CITY PROBABLY
PRIMARY ELECTION DAY AND WE WERE PLANNING TO WORK FOR MARK GREEN HIS CAMPAIGN WE WERE ON THE 59TH STREET BRIDGE WHEN OUT OF THE CORNER OF OUR EYE WE SAW THE FIRST PLANE HIT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER LOOKING SOUTH FROM THE 59TH STREET BRIDGE WE NOTICED THE SMOKE
WE IMMEDIATELY WENT TO MARK GREEN
WHICH WAS 42ND STR MAD
TELEPHONE CALL TO FIND OUT WHAT WE SHOULD DO WE WERE DIRECTED AT THAT POINT TO GO TO METROPOLITAN HOSPITAL

COHEN
AND SECURE VEHICLE WHICH WE DID WE GOT THERE WE SAW LIEUTENANT CRAIG WING AT THE DESK HE HANDED US KEYS TO VEHICLE AND WITH ABOUT FIVE ADDITIONAL
OFF DUTY EMS MEMBERS DONT KNOW THEIR NAMES THEY WERE WORKING ALSO AT THE LOCAL UNION THAT DAY WE GOT ON THE FDR SOUTHBOUND WAS DRIVING MY PARTNER
KENNY WAS IN THE FRONT WITH ME AND WE HAD ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE OTHER EMTS PARAMEDICS IN THE BACK LIKE SAID
DONT KNOW ALL OF THEIR NAMES
THE FDR WAS BASICALLY SHUT DOWN ALREADY
THERE WERE NO CARS ON IT SO WE MADE PRETTY QOOD TIME WHEN WE CAME OVER THE LIMITED SIGHT AREA LIKE RIGHT
ABOUT BY THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE FROM WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT AFTER WE BELIEVE THAT BOTH BUILDINGS WERE STILL
STANDING BUT AS WE PASSED TOWER HAD COLLAPSED AT THAT POINT BASICALLY WHILE WE WERE ON THE FDR LIKE DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING SO THAT KIND OF GIVES US SENSE OF TIME EVERYTHING WAS KIND OF
FAST
WE WERE DIRECTED BY MANHATTAN SOUTH DISPATCH
TO GO TO THE SOUTH FERRY TERMINAL WE GOT TO THE SOUTH
MOVING PRETTY
KN THAT BECAUSE LOOKED UP AND SAW ONE OF THE TRADE
PRI BUILDING
CENTER BUILDINGS WAS GONE BUT THE OTHER ONE WAS STILL

COHEN
STANDING SUPPLIES WERE STARTING TO ARRIVE THEY WERE STARTING TO ORGANIZE WHAT WAS GOING ON AND WAS TOLD
BY LIEUTENANT IN UNIFORM WITH SUBURBAN DONT RECALL WHO IT WAS OR EVEN WHAT HE LOOKS LIKE OR WHAT HIS COMMAND WAS BUT THEY WERE STARTING TO SET UP AND THAT WE WERE GOING TO EXPECT LOT OF PATIENTS BECAUSE THE BUILDING HAD JUST COLLAPSED ONE BUILDING HAD JUST COLLAPSED
SO WHILE THEY WERE THROWING STUFF OUT DECIDED THAT NEEDED TO START MAYBE HEADING AND SETTINQ UP FORWARD TRIAQE AREA BECAUSE WE WERENT SEEING PATIENTS WE WERE ALL KIND OF WONDERING WHY THERE WAS NOBODY THAT WE WERE TREATING SO BY
MYSELF RAN TO THE CORNER OF BATTERY PARK CITY
WHICH IS KIND OF LIKE WHERE THE PARKING AREA IS WHERE YOU WOULD PULL IN TO THE FERRY TERMINAL IF YOU HAD CAR AND THEN MADE MY WAY AROUND WALKING DOWN TOWARDS GUESS LITTLE BIT SOUTH OF WHERE THE BROOKLYN BATTERY TUNNEL IS WAS FIGURING THAT THERE WOULD BE JUST PATIENTS ALL LAID OUT ALL OVER THE PLACE AND EVERYBODY WAS RUNNING THERE REALLY WERENT ANY
PATI
THEN WHILE WAS LOOKING AROUND THEN THE
SECOND WORLD TRADE CENTER COLLAPSED BASICALLY WHILE
AND STUFF

COHEN
WAS LOOKING AT IT BUT THE WIND WAS AT MY BACK BECAUSE
WAS FACING NORTH SO EVERYTHING WAS KIND OF JUST BLOWING THE OTHER WAY MEAN STUFF WAS ALL OVER THE PLACE BUT IT WASNT AS BAD AS THOUGHT IT WOULD BE THEN OF COURSE STARTED CURSING AND SCREAMING AND THEN JUST RAN BACK TO THE FERRY TERMINAL BECAUSE THOUGHT THAT PATIENTS WERE COMING AROUND KIND OF LIKE FLANKING US BECAUSE THE WAY THE BUILDING COLLAPSED MEAN THERE WAS NO WAY ANYBODY COULD GET THROUGH
THERE WAS LIKE HUGE PILE OF DEBRIS NOW ON THE WEST SIDE HIQHWAY
GOT THERE AND THEN MORE EMS RESOURCES STARTED TO ARRIVE PEOPLE THAT WERE CLOSER TO THE
BUILDINGS LIKE DR CHERSON CHIEF MCCRACKEN CAPTAIN FRANK DAMATO LIEUTENANT MEDJUCK WE STARTED TO JUST
ORGANIZE INCOMING UNITS THAT WERE THERE AND STARTED PULLING STUFF OFF THE AMBULANCES BACK BOARDS AND
FLUIDS AND IVS BASICALLY SENSE OF TIME LINE AT THAT POINT WOULD BE GUESS IT WOULD HAVE TO BE
PROBABLY 1100 OCLOCK BY NOW MEAN IT WAS JUST ONE
LONG WE SAW COUPLE OF
CRITICAL WITH
FRACTURES AND STUFF BUT
MEAN KNOW AT THIS POINT BOTH OF THE TRADE CENTER
PATIENTS THERE YOU KNOW FRACTUR KNG
GUESS AT THIS POINT

COHEN
TOWERS WERE DOWN SO GUESS ITS ABOUT IT WOULD HAVE TO BE PROBABLY ABOUT 1100 OCLOCK NOW 1100 OCLOCK OR 1130
STAYED THERE WAS THERE UNTIL 500 OCLOCK THE NEXT MORNING STAYED THERE THE WHOLE TIME
DID YOU RECOGNIZE WHEN YOU WERE AT SOUTH FERRY WHEN YOU FIRST GOT THERE ASIDE FROM THE
LIEUTENANT RECOGNIZE ANYBODY ELSE THAT WAS STAGING DOWN IN THAT AREA AT THAT POINT
NO THERE WERE JUST SO MANY PEOPLE PILINQ
THROUGH THE TERMINAL WALKING ON THE FDR DRIVE
COMING GUESS SOMEHOW THEY GOT ONTO THE FDR DRIVE
BY THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE THE RAMPS AND THEN THEY CAME SOUTHBOUND ON THE FDR DRIVE IT WAS JUST HUNDREDS
THOUSANDS MEAN COULDNT EVEN PLACE NUMBER ON IT BUT THE POLICE STARTED TO TELL THEM TO HEAD NORTH
JUST TO GO IF YOU COULD WALK START WALKING GO NORTH HOWEVER YOU CAN GET OUT OF HERE JUST START WALKING NORTH AND THERE WERE PEOPLE STARTING TO WALK OVER THE
BRIDGE AND THINK FERRY TOOK PEOPLE OUT
BROOKLYN
OH
ALSO
FISHING BOATS OR PRIVATE VESSELS AND STUFF FROM OVER
TH PRIVAT DONT EVEN KNOW WHERE THESE BOATS LIKE

COHEN
THERE DONT KNOW HOW THEY WERE DOING IT BUT SAW LOT OF PRIVATE BOATS WITH JUST LOT OF PEOPLE ON
IT BUT AS FAR AS EMS PERSONNEL THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT
RECOGNIZED WHEN GOT
THERE WELL DIDNT
RECOGNIZE HIM MEAN RECOGNIZED HIM AS AN EMS LIEUTENANT IN UNIFORM DONT KNOW
NO DONT KNOW HIS NAME BUT HE WAS THE ONLY PERSON RECOGNIZED UNTIL CAME BACK AFTER THE SECOND BUILDING COLLAPSED AFTER THE SECOND TRADE
CENTER COLLAPSED PEOPLE THAT WERE COMING THAT WERE CLOSE FROM THE COLLAPSES THAT QUESS WERE CLOSER BECAUSE THEY WERE COVERED IN DEBRIS AND EVEN THOUGH WAS RELATIVELY CLOSE GUESS THE WIND BEING AT MY BACK DIDNT GET LIKE COVERED WITH STUFF BUT THE
FIRST PEOPLE THAT RECOGNIZED SEEING AND TALKING TO OTHER THAN THE PEOPLE CAME WITH IN THE AMBULANCE FROM METROPOLITAN HOSPITAL WERE CHIEF MCCRACKEN DR CHERSON FROM OMA CAPTAIN FRANK DAMATO AND LIEUTENANT BRUCE
MEDJUCK
AND
LET ME JUST THINK ABOUT IT WHO ELSE WAS
THERE NOBODY ELSE OTHER THAN THE PEOPLE CAME WITH
MY PARTN
THAT YOU GOT THAT YOU PICKED UP AT METROPOLITAN
DAVIS
DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT THE VEHICLE NUMBER WAS

COHEN
IT WAS THREE DIGIT NUMBER STARTING WITH DONT WANT TO SAY 227 BECAUSE THINK 227 IS
VEHICLE HERE AND THATS WHY ITS POPPING INTO MY MIND BUT IT WAS AN OLDER
ITS 2300
YES IT WAS THREE DIGIT NUMBER BEGINNING
WITH AND IM SURE IM ALMOST POSITIVE LIEUTENANT WING MADE NOTATION IN HIS LIEUTENANTS LOG WHICH
VEHICLE WE TOOK BECAUSE WE KNOW EACH OTHER ON PERSONAL BASIS NOT PERSONAL HE KNOWS MY NAME AND
KNOW HIS NAME AND STUFF SO IM SURE HE MADE
NOTATION IN HIS LIEUTENANT LOGBOOK OF WHICH VEHICLE HE GAVE US
ANY OTHER THOUGHTS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD OR ODDITIES THAT STAND OUT LITTLE STRANGE EVENT OR
SIGHT NOT THAT THE WHOLE THING WASNT NO
MR RADENBERG OKAY THE TIME IS NOW 1516 HOURS THE INTERVIEW IS CONCLUDED

F i l e No. 9110059
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT VALERIE LONG0
Interview Date: October 11, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins

MR. TAMBASCO: This is Mike Tambasco with the Trade Center task force conducting an interview with EMT Valerie Longo. We are in the conference room at Division 5 in Staten Island. The start time for the interview is 1430 hours.
Q. Ms. Longo, please go right ahead and
just tell us your story.
A. After the first plane hit the World
Trade Center we were assigned from Staten Island to go to - - actually to go to the VZ Bridge and wait. So that's what we did. It was about ten to 9. I'm not sure exactly of the time.
Q. Who were you working with?
A. I was working with Steve Hess.
We started heading towards the bridge, and we were told to just keep going. If I'm not mistaken, they said go over the bridge and start
heading
We were
Battery
already
Q.
towards the city.
We started heading towards the city.
on the Gowanus. We were heading to the Tunnel, and I think the second plane had hit World Trade Center number two.
The south tower?

A. The south tower.
As we came out of the Battery Tunnel we
drove along West Street. Do you want to know gory details.
Q. I want to know as much as you can tell me.
A. We had to avoid hitting body parts and plane parts, because that second plane that hit or the first plane that hit left all kinds of debris. So we were driving along West Street, and they were flagging us. They told us just to go to West and Vesey.
So we finally made it up to West and Vesey, and we were told to park in front because we were 23 Henry. We parked right on Vesey and West. We were about the third ambulance up.
At that time they said for us not to do anything. There were people who were already injured. They were in a little triage center in the back of the American Express building, which is--
Q. The west side towards the river?
A. Towards the west side towards the river, there was a little triage center there,

and they were treating a couple people. There were some doctors and nurses and EMTs.
Around, I don't know, maybe 15 minutes or 20 minutes after we got there, 15 minutes, we heard a rumbling. It sounded like a freight train coming at you. All they did was say to run. So we ran down Vesey Street and ended up on North End, which is about a long block up. The first tower, whatever tower that was, number - -
Q. The north tower?
A. The north tower had fallen, and we didn't know what was going on.
They gathered us all up after we caught our breath, whatever we did, and they said go get your buses. So we had to come back down. My partner came back down, got the bus, and the other guys got the buses, and met up on North End and Vesey.
They said to set up a triage in a building in that area; then they said not to. So we took our equipment back. By the time we started getting our equipment back, the north tower started to rumble and the north tower started falling. They said get your buses and

get the hell out of here.
So that's what we did. We got in the
buses, and we flew up to Murray and came around to River Terrace, which is a dead end. We were stuck in front of River Terrace close to Vesey at the end, by the water. We were at Vesey by the water.
We were helping out people that were running down that way, and we waited. We didn't know what to do. We were by ourselves with our ambulance with only one other personnel; I think it was - - who was it?
Q. EMS person?
A. Yeah. He was with the LSU.
Q. I believe Hanson, maybe, Eric Hanson? A. Yeah, Eric Hanson followed us. So it
was us and Eric Hanson. We were handing out masks and water, and we just got ravaged. Everybody took everything. We were just helping people.
We stayed there for, I don't know. I can't give you time frame because we were in quite a bit of shock because we actually - - yeah, we were in quite a bit of shock.

Alieutenantfoundus. I'msorry,he was a captain, Abdo.
Q. Nahmod.
A. Captain Nahmod came, and he said, "I want you to get your stuff and get up towards 23rd and the piers. He said, no matter what you do, just go uptown.
So Eric followed in the LSU, and we got in the bus and made our way uptown. We were still in very much shock. When we got up there, we stayed up there.
Q. Set up an area of staging up there?
A. No, no. What they do is they had us sit in the bus with 500 other buses, after they ravaged our ambulance, and just wait. We waited for hours. About 3:00 in the afternoon after we heard all the rescues going on, they a-ctually released us. They told us there were 400 jobs holding in Manhattan.
Meanwhile we had debris in the ambulance. We had no equipment, and they were going to give us a job in Manhattan.

I
said, "TTe have no equip men^ in e here." Everybody took everything. It's full of debris. I t was ravaged.
So we ended up making our way home. We found our way home. We finally made it back to the station, and that's where we stayed. That was the end of our day. We got the crap scared out of us, and we left. As I might about a lot
of other people.
It was frightening. It was absolutely the most frightening thing that I've ever experienced in my whole life. Me and my partner, I think we were white, we were so scared. I couldn't run. He had to practically grab me by my belt and carry me, because either I was too scared -- I have a bad ankle. That was it.
So that was the end of our harrowing experience. We didn't get hurt. We didn't get injured. We tried to help people, but they sent us uptown. That was the end of our day.

Q. Okay.
A. That's my story.
Q. Anything else you can think of you
would like to add to it?
A. Yeah. The next time something like
this happens, tell people not to stand in front of the goddamn building. Okay? First of all, they were getting killed by debris. A plane hits a building, and where do you stand? Where do you
park your think so.
Q.
serious. I'm serious. If they had thought to even try to park half a block away or a block away or somewhere where you can walk to get access or something. A lot of these people probably wouldn't have gotten killed if they - - they were hit by flying debris. You don't park under something that's burning.
Q. This is the kind of stuff you were seeing?
A. Oh, yeah, yeah. You look up, and it's
vehicles? Underneath it? I don't That was wrong from the get-go. Do I have the right to say that?
You can say whatever you want. A. Well, wrong, wrong, wrong. I'm

two towers of flames. Now, we had a hard time seeing people jumping out because we were on that one side. We didn't see this building here.
Q. The south building. Right.
A. We saw the top of it but not the bottom half. We saw this one, because we were right here.
Q. Right.
A. So we saw the top half.
Q. You saw the top of the north tower.
A. Yeah. We actually saw it from an angle
as we were looking up. Then the rumbling just took us for a loop, and then we ran. That's when everybody got covered with soot and debris and dust and everything else, not able to breathe.
But I credit the lieutenant or the captain that was there - - god knows I can't remember his name; I have no idea who he was - - when he told us to run that way, towards the water. I credit him, because that was the way to go. I don't know who he was, and they just said runthatway. Insteadofrunningeastorwest, we ran south, if I'm not mistaken.
Q. I guess actually west instead of south

or north.
A. Yes. Wherever the water was, that's
where he made us run to. Instead of running this way or this way, which was - -
Q. That's north. Instead of running north or south, they sent you west towards the water? A. They sent us towards the water, which
was a godsend. Whoever it is, I credit them. I have no idea. I have no idea. But I'm glad they did.
That's it.
Q. Okay. Well, I thank you for your
story.
A. Quick and to the point. Q. That's it.
MR. TAMBASCO: The interview will conclude at 1439 hours.

File No. 9110060
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT STEPHEN HESS
Interview Date: October 11, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason

Q.
A. 23 Henry.
Q. Battalion events of assigned.
A. after the
I'm conducting an interview with?
Stephen Hess. Shield 5612 EMT, assigned to
We are currently at Seaview Hospital,
52, EMS. This interview is regarding the September 11, 2001. Start with when you were
All right. We first heard the first call first incident occurred, and our initial
S. HESS
MR. RADENBERG: Today's date is October 11, 2001. The time is 1433 hours. This is Paul Radenberg of the Fire Department of the City of New York.
response was to that it was a small plane, a Cessna, lost power and hit the tower. Then they said it was a commercial airline. That happened at 848. We were assigned to the job at approximately 8:50. We were told initially to go to the Verrazano Bridge and stage there. Then it was to 92 Street in Brooklyn. Then to the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel and in the process they just kept saying, finally just said go to - - through the tunnel to Vesey and West Street.
We got there I would say approximately 20 minutes after we got the job. We came after the second

S. HESS
tower was hit, because we came over the Gowanus and we could see them both burning just before the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel. I know we were following lots of PD, fire apparatus, came through the tunnel, and our initial response was seeing body parts and airplane parts all over the west side. Just traumatic to see.
We got to approximately West and Vesey, where Lieutenant Brad Mann took our unit designation and since we were HAZTAC, he staged us pretty close to the corner of West and Vesey. I think there was maybe two or three ambulances closer to West than us. We were helping the triage, we were instructed we wouldn't be transporting because of us being HAZTAC. They wanted us to remain there.
We were helping out and then approximately, according to the time sheet, 9:55 we heard this loud rumbling noise, looked up and saw the building coming down. Everyone started yelling, run, run, run, so we started running up Vesey towards the Hudson River. I knew I was running fast and the thing that caused me some problems was turning around and seeing my partner saying please don't leave me.
So basically, I grabbed her by the belt and picked her up is what she tells me. I don't remember.

S. HESS
But we basically ran down the street. Got to North End Avenue, ducked around the corner and saw the cloud of dust coming around. You know, saying this can't be
really happening.
Just after the first tower came down, we were
standing there and I don't recall his name but some Captain from EMS said we need t o get the ambulances. So I turned to my partner who was standing there and told her you stay right here. Don't move, because I ran back to get our bus and was able to get on it, I was covered in some debris and dust, but I knew we needed our -- the equipment we have, the decon and stuff like that.
We were treating some patients who came around the corner. Irrigating their eyes, trying to get the dust off as best as we could, when all of a sudden we heard later on the noise of the second tower going. We jumped in the bus and started driving away. We wound up near the Hudson River, near the park over here. We kind of got trapped in a loop because there was so much debris and vehicles that we couldn't get out of there. Our thoughts are like where do we go from here. We were like, we are going in the water if we have to. They started bringing the boats and then

S. HESS
the debris cleared up and we were able to get out and they restaged us at Chelsea Piers.
I'm guessing that was somewhere around 11 o'clock. To be honest I'm not exactly sure when. Yes, because we were stuck down, it was 10:29, the north tower went down and we were stuck in that street for a good half an hour, 45 minutes, it might have been even later.
We came out of - - down Murray Street, I remember that, and we looked back and just saw this blank hole in the sky with what used to be the World Trade Center with smoke billowing up and people covered in dust and debris. Like I said, the next thing we restaged up there and we were treating some patients up there, but we didn't do any transports.
After that, I think it was around 3:00 we were released from the scene. We came back to Battalion 22 in Staten Island. As far as seeing people, like I said, I knew Lieutenant Mann, because he was in my old station. The Captain I really never caught his name because he was telling us what to do.
I saw some medics that I knew, like Darnowski, a couple of other people that I knew. Ray Viscutti, he used to work for EMS, but now he works for a volunteer.

S. HESS
People running for their lives. Running just trying t o get away. I saw another guy from our station, Eric Hansen. We wound up on River Terrace with him. Caught in that loop. Beyond that, that's about what I remember.
The thing that stuck with me was turning around and seeing my partner.
Q. Right.
A.
b u t I was not going to leave her by herself.
She told me I came back, that I picked her up and basically ran with her like a football to get out of there, you know. Something I w i l l never forget. Something that really bothered me -- getting all the beeps on your pager from your parents, your wife. You can't even call them.
I still think about it. Sometimes it's difficult to deal with but it's getting better.
Q. When you were over here on the first --
A. West and Vesey.
Q. West and Vesey. When you were over there,
the patients that you were treating were all at that point were all coming up on their own?
A. We walked into a staging area on West and

S. HESS
Vesey and there was about 30 people already there. Q. Patients?
A. Yes. We were kind of kept to the side because of being HAZTAC, they wanted us available near our unit.
Q. Right, right.
A. Then it became so overwhelming that we moved over a little to help people, do what we could. We got some burn victims that you could see and people with respiratory problems. That's about the point when the building came down and my back was to it. I heard the noise. I turned around and it looked like I was looking at a movie. It was like surrealistic.
I can still vividly see the debris coming down and starting running. The noise is - - I thought it was another plane actually, because the noise was so deafening loud, from everything coming down. That's
what we Q. A. he left
A. But I remember Darnowski because they are twins. There is Jimmy and Kevin and I saw both of
covered and encountered that day.
You said Darnowski and Canton were there? No, Viscutti. He was in my academy class but
and he works for Lenox Hill I believe. Q. Okay.

S. HESS
them, but I don't remember which is which at this point.
Q. Okay.
A. The one that I saw initially was saying that he just dropped his girl off and she was up in the towers. Then I remember like I said, helping with triage and then the building coming down, and just running as fast as I could because we didn't know if they were toppling over or coming straight down. I figured if they are toppling over, it's all over.
Q. Do you remember once you came out of the Battery Tunnel, which way you came up to?
A. We came out of the Battery Tunnel. We came out on to the west side and came up straight up the West Side Highway, coming between the World Trade Center and the financial district. Like I said we turned the corner on Vesey and Lieutenant Mann told us
- - ask us our designation and we told him 23 Henry. He says full HAZTAC? We said yes. He staged us right on the corner of West and Vesey.
Like I said, maybe two and three ambulances up from the corner to be available. He said try to assist with some triage and patient care, but don't transport because we need you.

S. HESS
Q. Do you remember any other, aside from Lieutenant Mann and the Captain, any other EMS officers that you remember being there?
A. Just later on. Not at that point, I saw Lieutenant Mann and the Captain -- for the life of me I can't remember his name, you know. But I remember what he looks like. I remember that. I will never forget.
Q. Did you ever run into him before?
A. Never seen him before. I don't know him, wouldn't know wouldn't have known him from Adam that day, except for the fact that he had his shirt on, with two bars. He was -- him and Lieutenant Mann were the ones setting up staging, positioning the busses.
Turned out not to be the best spot afterwards, but who knew these buildings were going to come down. No one expected that.
Q. Right, right. Darnowski, that's who you saw there initially, he was off duty?
A. Yes, I'm assuming he was. He was in uniform. He might have been going t o work o r coming home. But he said he dropped his girl off at work.
Q. He wasn't part of a crew that you know of? A. No, not that I can recall.
Q. Okay.

S. HESS
A. You know, I just, like I said the only reason I remember him is because we knew each other. I saw a lot of people that I had never seen before in my life, might not ever seen again. Hopefully they all got out of there, you know. That's about the best as I can remember what was going on.
Q. parked; at that A. Q.
Do you remember any vehicle numbers that were EMS vehicle numbers that were parked around you point or - -
You know what.
Did you recognize people from other stations
maybe?
A. No. Like I said, we are from Staten Island.
They don't get too much contact with people in Manhattan. InitiallymostoftheunitswereManhattan units. I mean a few of the faces I kind of recollect seeing at the Academy at some point in time, but as to the names, vehicle numbers, I wasn't even looking.
Q. Okay. No problem. Different people remember different things.

S. HESS
Q. Anything else you want to add?
A. No, nothing.
Q. Thoughts or opinions?
A. I would just like to know how a plane can
disappear from the radar for 40 minutes, and no one does anything. I don't think it would have prevented anything, but it might have prevented - - I mean, what time did the Pentagon get hit? I think that was later. Someone might have been alerted to something that was going on but, you know, too little too late I guess.
MR. RADENBERG: Okay. The time is now 1447. Interview is concluded.

FILE NO 9110061
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW ABDO NAHMOD
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 11 2001
TRANSCRIB BY MAUR MCC

MR TANBASCO IT IS OCTOBER 11 THE TIME IS 1237 IM MIKE TAMBASCO ASSIGNED TO THE WORLD
TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW INTO THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 AT THE WORLD
TRADE CENTER TODAY ILL BE INTERVIEWING CAPTAIN NAHMOD CAPTAIN ABDO NAHMOD
BY MR TAMBASCO
WHERE WERE YOU ASSIGNED THAT DAY CAPTAIN OPERATIONS
IF YOUD BE GOOD ENOUGH TO JUST TRY TO TELL
US WHAT YOU SAW WHAT YOU DID GO RIQHT AHEAD
ON THAT GIVEN MORNING WAS ASSIGNED TO THE OFFICE OF OPERATIONS AND WAS SPENDING SOME TIME WITH LIEUTENANT MANN WHO WAS TAKING OVER THE MEDICAL DATA BASE FOR OPERATIONS AND WE WERE ON THE 7TH FLOOR WHEN SOMEBODY UP THERE SAID THAT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WAS JUST HIT BY PLANE
AT THIS POINT WE WENT TO THE WINDOW WE LOOKED AND SURE ENOUGH WE SAW VISIBLE FLAMES COMING FROM THE TOP OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
MANY PEOPLE BEGAN TO RESPOND IN DIFFERENT AND AT WITH EMT
RICHARD ZARRILLO THE SPECIAL EVENTS COORDINATOR WITH MR DRURY FROM BITS IN HIS VEHICLE TO GET DOWN TO THE

ABDO NAHMOD
WORLD TRADE CENTER
AT THIS POINT COMMUNICATED WITH CHIEF
PERUGGIA VIA THE LAND LINE AND WE WERE DIRECTED TO REPORT TO WORLD TRADE TO SET UP OEM BOTH MYSELF AND EMT ZARRILLO WENT TO THE 23RD FLOOR OF WORLD TRADE
AND BEGAN TO LOG ONTO THE TERMINALS AS WELL AS INFORM THE CITYWIDE DISPATCH SUPERVISOR THAT WE WERE
ACTIVATING OEM AT THIS TIME AND OPERATIONS WERE TO BEGIN
MOMENTS THEREAFTER WE WERE ADVISED BY THE STAFF AT OEM THAT WE WERE TO VACATE THE BUILDINQ THAT THEY BELIEVED THERE WAS ANOTHER POSSIBLE PLANE ON ITS WAY AND PROCEEDED DOWN THE STAIRWELL OF WORLD TRADE ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE GROUND FLOOR
AT THIS POINT WE WERE TRYING TO ESTABLISH COMMAND CENTER AS WELL AS TREATMENT AND TRANSPORT
SECTOR BELIEVE CHIEF
ESTABLISH COMMUNICATION AND WAS
TH GARAG AR TH THERE WERE FOUR BAYS ONE HAVING
OUTSIDE TO WORLD TRADE SAW
UPON GETTING
CHIEF PERUGGIA AND CAPTAIN STONE AND BELIEVE ONE OF THE EMTS FROM THE DIVISION COMMAND OUTSIDE
THREE THAT WERE OPEN AND AT THAT POINT BELIEVE
PERUGGIA WAS TRYING TO DIRECTED TO MOVE
TRAD WH TRUCK IN IT AND

ABDO NAHMOD
THERE WERE SOME EMTS AND ONE MEDIC UNIT IN FRONT OF WORLD TRADE BUILDING
AT THIS POINT WE TRIED TO GATHER ALL OUR
EQUIPMENT GATHER SOME EQUIPMENT FROM WORLD TRADE SET UP TREATMENT AREA AT THE BOTTOM AND WE WERE MET
BY ONE OF THE DOCTORS FROM OMA DONT RECALL HIS NAME AT THIS POINT
DID YOU HAPPEN TO RECOGNIZE ANY OF THE GUYS THAT WERE IN THE AMBULANCES EITHER THE MEDICS OR THE EMT
NO NEVER WORKED MANHATTAN AND REALLY DONT KNOW KNOW FEW WERE FROM ST DARES AND ONE WAS FROM NEW YORK HOSPITAL AND FEW WERE MUNICIPAL UNITS BUT DIDNT RECOGNIZE ANY OF THE FOLKS THERE
ID SAY WITHIN 20 MINUTES TO HALF AN HOUR OF BEING DOWN THERE OR TRYING TO SET EVERYTHING UP ALL OF SUDDEN LOUD NOISE RUBBLE AND SAND AND DUST EVERYTHING JUST STARTED TOPPLING DOWN
WE DID HAVE ONE PATIENT THERE THAT WALKED IN FOR AN EYE INJURY AN OLDER GENTLEMAN HE WAS SITTING
BY TH KADING AND WAS RIGHT HIM ALSO WHEN THIS STARTED HAPPENING EVERYBODY STARTED
GOING TO THE MAIN LOBBY

ABDO NAHMOD
AT THIS POINT TRIED TO COVER THIS GENTLEMAN UP WITH MYSELF AND THEN REMAINED IN THE LOADING DOCK CURLED UP IN THE CORNER
TIME PASSED COULDNT TELL YOU IF IT WAS
FIVE MINUTES OR 50 MINUTES BUT EVERYTHING SEEMED DARK EVERYTHING SEEMED BLACK AND THERE WERE LOTS OF SAND AND RUBBLE AND GRIT AND DIRT AND DEBRIS ON TOP OF MYSELF AND THIS GENTLEMAN
WHEN EVERYTHING CLEARED BELIEVE SAW COMMISSIONER TIERNEY WALKING OUT OF AFTER THAT AND
EVERYBODY THAT WE SAW WAS ACCOUNTED FOR THAT WAS THERE INITIALLY AS FAR AS THE PROVIDERS WE TRIED TO ASSIST THIS GENTLEMAN ONTO STRETCHER OF THE ST DARES
UNIT WE PUT HIM ON THE STRETCHER AND STARTED WHEELING HIM NORTHBOUND BELIEVE WE WERE ORIGINALLY ON VESEY PROBABLY TURNED UP WEST AND WE WENT WITH THIS
GENTLEMAN UP WEST
NORTH ON WEST
NORTH ON WEST AND BELIEVE THEIR AMBULANCE WAS BLOCK OR TWO BLOCKS AWAY ASSUME THEY PUT HIM
AFT THAT WAS
SH PR
WEST STREET AND THEN HEARD ANOTHER LOUD NOISE AND LOOKED BEHIND AND SURE ENOUGH IT LOOKED LIKE THE
IN THE AMBULANCE AND WENT ON FROM THERE

ABDO NAHMOD
BUILDING WAS COMING DOWN BY THEN MANAGED TO GET TO STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL AND HUDDLED IN THE DOORWAY WITH
NUMBER OF ESU COPS AND FIREFIGHTERS AND ONCE AGAIN THE DUST AND THE DEBRIS AND EVERYTHING ELSE CAME DOWN AND SHORTLY THEREAFTER WE STARTED TO LOOK AROUND FOR ANYBODY THAT WAS HURT
WE STARTED GOING BACK TOWARDS THE COLLAPSE SITE WE DID MANAGE TO SEE FDNY EMS COMMAND CAR WITH THE WINDOWS BROKEN BUT THE RADIO STILL WORKING AND
RUNNING BELIEVE
BELIEVE ON WEST AND CHAMBERS THERE SAW ONCE AQAIN CHIEF PERUQQIA AND CHIEF
BUTLER AND NUMBER OF OTHER PEOPLE STARTING TO GATHER
WE STARTED TO TRY TO ESTABLISH SOME KIND OF
COMMUNICATION BUT THE RADIOS WERENT FUNCTIONING ALL
THAT WELL WE STAYED AT THAT POINT UNTIL WE MANAGED TO
SET UP TREATMENT SECTOR AND SO ON AND SO FORTH BUT
IN THE INTERIM REMEMBER SEEING CHIEF CARASQUILLO
BY RIVER STREET AND CHAMBERS DID WANDER THAT WAY
AND THEN MADE IT BACK TOWARDS WEST AND CHAMBERS
THINK WEST AND CHAMBERS MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED AFTER SAW
CHI
RIVER AND CHAMBERS AS WELL NUMBER OF OTHER UNITS
CARASQUILK
DID SEE ERIC HANSON WITH THE LSU BY THE
UP

THERE
ABDO NAHMOD
FROM THERE RESOURCES STARTED TO COME IN RADIOS STARTED TO WORK WE MANAGED TO LOCATE THE MERV DRIVER WHO WAS ON CHAMBERS STREET AND WEST STREET
AND RIVER STREET AND MANAGED TO PULL THE MERV DOWN THEN WE BEGAN TO SET UP DIFFERENT SECTORS SO ON AND SO FORTH
SPENT GOOD PORTION OF THE AFTERNOON WITH THE MERV THE LATTER PART OF THAT EVENING WITH THE COMMUNICATIONS SECTOR AND WENT HOME THINK TWO DAYS LATER OR DAY AND HALF LATER AND THEN CAME BACK ON SOMETHING LIKE THURSDAY
THATS IT
ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO DO ADD INTO IT
ANY FEELINGS ABOUT IT ANYTHING AT ALL
THE ONLY THING IS IM LUCKY TO BE ALIVE
THATS REALLY THE BOTTOM LINE
IF THE BUILDING WENT THE OTHER WAY WAS
STANDING ACROSS THE STREET YOU KNOW YOU DONT KNOW THE OUTCOME SO THATS IT
MR TAMBASCO IN THAT CASE THANK YOU FOR TH INT THIS IS INT WILL
CONCLUDED AT 1246 HOURS

File No. 9110062
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW DR. GLENN ASAEDA
Interview Date: October 11, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis

G. ASAEDA
MR. McALLISTER: This is Kevin McALLISTER from the Bureau of Administration. It's October llth, 2001. We're in the south conference room at Fire Department Headquarters. It is 1536 hours and I am joined by. . .
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: Assistant Commissioner Jim Drury.
MR. McALLISTER: And . . .
DR.ASAEDA: GlennAsaeda,M.D.,Deputy Medical Director with the Fire Department Medical Affairs.
Q. DR. ASAEDA, I'd like to draw your attention to September the llth, 2001, and get your recollections of that day, if we could.
A. Yes. I was actually one of the physicians for the Office of Medical Affairs that was coming on duty as the on-call medical director for the system and was actually headed to Manhattan for an unrelated sexual assault task force meeting. I was actually on the Long Island Expressway going towards the Midtown Tunnel when I happened to look over to my left and actually did see one of the towers, what appeared to look like one of the top floors kind of smoking, but from my angle, there were four smokestacks, I guess on

G. ASAEDA
the Brooklyn side or the Manhattan side, just in front of the towers, to a point where it looked like it was actually smoke from the smokestacks, and I thought at that point, wow, that's interesting, it really makes the tower look like it's on fire.
I had just taken a bioterrorism course that the Fire Department had offered, I think a month or two months before downstairs, and at that time the instructor from the federal government had said, do you know how to tell if it's a good day for bioterrorism? We had not known and they had explained to us that by looking at the smoke from the smokestack you can tell. If it rises straight into the air and dissipates, it's a bad day for bioterrorism, good for the people because what happens is anything released would go into the air, we wouldn't breathe it in. A good day for bioterrorism but bad for citizens would be a day where the smoke seems to kind of hover, even come to the ground, anything released could actually be inhaled. So, as I looked at that, I thought, oh, potentially this is a good day for bioterrorism. I was just thinking that off the top of my head.
Then, as I was in traffic, I saw the car next to me honking, flashing its lights, and often in a

G. ASAEDA
marked car I get that. Can you tell me how to get to Bellevue Hospital? Can you tell me where the corner of this and that is? So I didn't think much of it. I rolled down the window only to hear the driver say, did you see the plane hit the World Trade Center? At that point I realized it was a real situation, looked back at the tower and thought, oh, my God, and for some reason I felt why is the Citywide radio so quiet? I didn't come to realize that, when I actually stopped for coffee initially, I had forgotten to put the Citywide back on. On my car it just doesn't automatically go on.
Almost afraid to push the Citywide button, I pressed it, got the radio to go on and it came to life, and I hear the first thing, confirmed aircraft into the World Trade Center tower, send me everything you've got, and this is hard hat operation. As soon as I heard that, I actually got on the cell phone with Commissioner Claire.
Q. Do you think that was the first or the second plane that had hit?
A. That was the first plane.
Q. Okay.
A. At that point, realizing that Commissioner

G. ASAEDA
Claire was actually in Albany for a state EMS meeting, I actually dug into my bag, got his cell phone number, just to let him know, called him on the cell phone, and at that point I was told, I'm watching it, I'm seeing it on TV right now. Do me a favor and when you get in on scene, give me another report. So I said okay, I acknowledged that and started to roll in. At that point, also, as I'm rolling, I called my wife just to let her know that the plane had hit the tower, I'm going to go in, just watch it on the news.
Probably about three minutes from the tunnel, I ducked into the tunnel with traffic with the lights and siren, and at that point didn't realize until later that communications was lost for me. I didn't know about the second aircraft. I think I had 1010 WINS on trying to hear the news. In the tunnel, I didn't hear any of that as well. I just remember, when I popped out of the tunnel, that my adrenaline was so pumped, I thought to myself, you've got to calm down, you've got to relax a little bit and just concentrate on doing what you have to do.
As I popped out of the tunnel, emergency vehicles, marked and unmarked, from every aspect, just in front of me, to the side of me, behind me, and I

G. ASAEDA
realized that this is something I need to really be careful as to how I'm driving because we're not usually accustomed to so many vehicles going in one place.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: Excuse me. Doctor, you said the tunnel. Which tunnel?
DR.ASAEDA: TheMidtownTunnel. ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: Okay.
A. At this point almost a convoy of emergency vehicles were going towards the World Trade Center. Since I was on the east side, I continued all the way down. As soon as I got towards the Brooklyn Bridge, I could see more closely the smoke and just thousands of people were just kind of running, walking towards the Brooklyn Bridge.
Q. Were both of the buildings standing at that point in time?
A. Yes, they were.
Q. Okay.
A. Again, still I had not realized about the
second plane hitting the tower. Also, because of the bioterrorism course and just the threats, I'm thinking to myself, I had just imagined that it was a single engine Cessna type of plane, not knowing it was a commercial airlines by any means. I kept thinking also

G. ASAEDA
to myself, be careful, it still could be terrorism, it could be bioterrorism, they could have had some kind of chemicals and biological agents on board. I kept thinking don't go downwind, don't go downwind. But because of the flow of people, the direction that I was hoping to take ended up putting me further south, which actually put me directly downwind, and I remember thinking to myself, oh, my God, this is where I don't want to be. I turned off the air-conditioner, holding my breath, as if that would work, thinking do you know what? You're in the worst place.
As I rounded the corner, more emergency vehicles now on the West Side Highway trying to get north towards the towers, the next car that I saw coming next to me was Chief Downey's vehicle.
Q. So you drove all the way south down the east side and looped around - -
A. Correct.
Q. - - at the Battery and headed up West Street?
A. Correct. Because there were too many people coming directly east. I knew that I couldn't go that way. So as I rounded the bend by the ferry, got back onto the west side, the next unmarked car that I saw was Chief Downey. Now, I don't think he was driving

G. ASAEDA
because I don't think I could have seen him that clearly, but I remember that he looked in towards the window of my vehicle, he smiled and actually waved, and I actually remember saying verbally, hey, chief, knowing that he couldn't hear me. But I particularly remember Chief Downey because I've had the opportunity of going on FEMA deployments with him to the Dominican Republic and joining him when the Japanese firefighters had come by, they wanted to speak to the S.O.C. chief and whatnot. So he was I remember physically one of the last people that I had known recognizing going to the scene.
As the first convoy had gone in front of me, I actually diverted my vehicle to two ambulances that I had seen right under the south walkway bridge. I saw two ambulances, Fire Department ambulances, pulled up next to them and said--
Q. That's the south bridge that crosses the West Side Highway?
A. Correct. The one that's still intact.
Q. Right?
A. Or was still intact. At that point, I pulled
up next to the ambulances. I asked them, is this the command post? They said no, it wasn't. I said, who

G. ASAEDA
set you up here? I believe they were EMTs. I don't think they were medics. They had said, there's so many people running this way, we felt this was a good area to be in. I said, it sounds good, just make sure to let a lieutenant know where you are so he can account for everyone, and I asked them, do you happen to know where the command post is? They directed me to in front of 1 World Trade Center on the West Side Highway.
Also, at this point I noticed just women's shoes all over. I guess they had taken them off to run. I guess they couldn't run in the heels and whatnot.
Q. That was on West Street?
A. That was on West Street and even previously, coming around from the east side to the west side, just shoes all over, it was just interesting to see that, along with the debris.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: If I may interrupt.
DR.ASAEDA: Yes.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: You were
directed to the command center on West Street across from 1 World Trade?

G. ASAEDA
DR.ASAEDA: Correct.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: Did you in
fact reach that command post? DR.ASAEDA: Yes,Idid.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: Was that in front of the World Financial Center?
DR.ASAEDA: Yes,itwas.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: Okay.
A. So as I pulled my vehicle, I realized that the West Side Highway had a lot of emergency vehicles. I couldn't actually get onto that. I went up the service road the wrong way with just the lights on, no siren at this point, saw the people gathering, I would say, 30 to 40 feet in front of the stairs of the World Financial Center. I think they call it the American - - I don't know if that's the same as the American Express Building or whatnot.
Q. No. 3 World Financial?
A. I would guess it would be 2, but I'm not sure of the number.
Q. The American Express Building?
A. Yes, the World Financial. I remember parking my car on Vesey and West on the corner, it was the northwest corner. There were emergency vehicles there

G. ASAEDA
as well. I was on the end double-parked and I thought to myself, I don't want to block anyone. Again, not realizing the magnitude of what was about to happen, I thought to myself, I still have a meeting to go to in about half an hour, so once I figure out what's going on here and everything settles, I still need to be able to pull my vehicle to go to the meeting. So I parked my vehicle, remembered that it was a hard hat operation, grabbed my helmet, grabbed my jacket and proceeded to the command post.
While I was en route to the site, I actually remember hearing the other physician's vehicle designation arrive on scene, so I knew that he was on seen probably about five to seven minutes before I had arrived.
Q. Who was that?
A. That was Dr. Cherson.
Q. Okay.
A. So I made it a point to, once reporting to
the command post just to find out what was going on, to see if I could find the other physician as well. Since he was the previous physician on call and first on the scene, I figured I would let him take the lead and let him direct me as to where he wanted me to go.

G. ASAEDA
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: At what time was it now, do you know, doctor, approximately?
DR. ASAEDA: This must have been, I would say - - it turns out it was after the second aircraft had crashed but before the first building. I don't remember the exact time of the second plane, but 9:10, 9:15, somewhere in that time frame.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: Yes. A. But even at this point, I still didn't
realize that a plane had hit. Again, being so close and looking up, I couldn't even see the other building really from where I was standing. I walked over to the command post. At that point I remember seeing a piece of debris fall from the north tower, literally past us, and hit the World Financial Center behind us and come down, and the only reason I saw that is everyone was kind of looking up going, whoa! I kind of looked up and I thought, wow, this is very close.
By the same token, I had looked up at the same time and noticed what I thought was debris turning out to be people, and at first I just couldn't imagine it would be people, but as they landed I was pretty sure it was people. I thought, well, they must be unconscious or falling out. Upon looking closer, there

G . ASAEDA
were some people that seemed to be on fire coming down, some that looked like rag dolls coming down, but at least 70 percent of them actually flailed until they hit the ground and one, I mean, they looked like ants from the distance we were at, but actually looking like he or she wanted to get to the next window.
I remember thinking under my breath and saying out loud that I could hear myself, I go, oh, my God, please, no, no, no, no, and they were jumping.
I've seen people, you know, I've worked as a paramedic in the past in California, so I've seen people jump as high as 25 stories, but that was very different in that in that it was just kind of, oh, my gosh, and they
hit. Here, with four times the height, it was kind of an oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God, until they finally hit.
At that point I had met Dr. Cherson and the paramedic aide that was with him, Paramedic Delgado from our office as well.
Q. Is this at the command post?
A. This i s a t the command post, initially across the street from World Trade Center.
Q. Who else was at the command post at this time?

G. ASAEDA
A. I remember seeing Chief Ganci. I also remember Chief Downey speaking to Commissioner Von Essen walking in front of me. Also, at about this time Mayor Giuliani and his entourage had actually walked behind us, and then a couple of fire chiefs that I had seen from the training or whatnot, but I couldn't recall their names, some of the Dominican Republic staff as well that had been sent.
Q. Was Commissioner Feehan there?
A. I had briefly seen him, but I can't remember exactly where I had seen him.
Q. Okay.
A. At this point, as I was standing in front of the command post looking to try to take in what was going on, Dr. Cherson came back to me and said that they were going to move the command post into the lobby of 1 World Trade Center. So at that time he said to me he was going to go in there with Paramedic Delgado, Manny Delgado, and he wanted me to take the EMS fellow who was with us and go to 7 World Trade, where they had set up one of the first treatment areas.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: Now, was this going to be the EMS command post or the Fire Department command post?

G. ASAEDA
DR. ASAEDA: This was going to be an EMS treatment area.
A. So I agreed to it, and one of the - - I can't remember who it was but he actually brought over one of the antidote kits from one of our vehicles. I almost chuckled at that time thinking, even if it were, one kit is not enough for all the potential patients, but we brought it with us. We went into the loading dock of 7 World Trade, which was right adjacent to the telephone company building, I believe, on Vesey.
Q. Right.
A. I remember as we were walking there was smoke coming from the World Trade Center and what seemed to be in front parts of - - in retrospect, I guess it was parts of the plane or whatnot, debris from the plane, debris from the building, and I had also heard that there were people around, but I didn't get a close enough look to see what kind of status they were in.
We walked into the loading dock where Captain Abdo of the Fire Department, EMS, had already established a treatment area, and we were using the
START system, which is the simple triage and rapid transport, where we color code our victims into red for immediate, yellow for injury but not immediate, green

G. ASAEDA
for walking wounded and black for dead at this point, and he had set up the loading dock into these separate areas and there were a few patients there as well. I remember, again, walking towards the treatment area thinking this is awfully close, we need to work on getting it a little bit further out, and I started seeing a few patients that were there.
The first gentleman for some reason I remember particularly. He was a gentleman in his seventies. He had said that he was on the 59th floor of the first tower that got struck. He was actually ordering some kind of food at that cafeteria, I think it's at the 59th floor, I'm pretty sure, and thought that, when he heard the explosion, that it was the kitchen oven. He heard that other people said they don't know what it is but it's time to evacuate, so he actually came down the staircase, and he was just sitting there because he was tired he was in the. So green category of a walking wounded. I remember thinking to myself, if he was able to make it out, then it sounds like most people are going to be able to get out, and I was relieved to hear that.
As I went to another patient, I remember a Secret Service or security from 7 World Trade Center

G. ASAEDA
person saying to me, did you hear that the Pentagon just got hit by another plane? Again, not knowing about the second plane still at this point, I thought, oh, my God. Then he said, and there's another plane missing. So at that point was the first point that I realized that this was a terrorist - - an intentional act, again, not knowing that the second plane had already hit.
So I thought we really need to move this out because I had a feeling they were going to come back for us. Just as soon as I had thought that, I heard what I thought was a jet engine plane. In retrospect, it turns out that it was the first tower coming down. We grabbed whatever patients we could, and what I did was I turned to my left and ducked into the little - - there was, I guess, a little connection between the lobby of 7 and the loading dock. The loading dock, I do remember thinking that it looked very secure, thick concrete and whatnot, and we all crammed, probably about 30 of us, into this little alcove between the lobby and the loading dock.

.
and he nexL ~hingI noticed, that jet engine sound and then a loud crash
and then pitch black. Then --
Q. Just prior to that, were there electrical
lights where you were?
A. Yes, there were.
Q. Did they stay on?
A. No, they did not.
Q. Okay.
A. I remember thinking that this was it for me.
I really thought that this was another plane coming and I thought this was it. I remember putting the visor of my helmet down, grabbing the chin strap and just kind
of squatting where I was at. After I realized that we actually made it through this initial whatever it was,
G . ASAEDA
18

G. ASAEDA
it was so dark that I actually thought they had closed the loading bay doors as a security measure for us, but it turns out it was just the debris and the smoke and whatnot that made it pitch black.
Q. The doors were still open?
A. They were still open.
Q. Okay.
A. I've heard in the past that, you know, these
disasters are so dark that people put their hands in front of their face and couldn't see anything. I used to laugh at them and think how dark can that be? But really, it was so dark, you couldn't see the hand in front of your face. At that point we realized that the building we were in was still up, we needed to get out, but just didn't know where to go, a little
disoriented. Any lighting equipment, which I actually didn't have, but any of the EMTs, I would say there were about eight of us, eight EMTs and medics, as well as the Captain and myself, EMS, we realized that we needed to get out, but none of us - - they hadn't brought their flashlights to the area we just dove into. We didn't know which way to go. People were yelling, I can't breathe, I can't breathe, and I remember from the bioterrorism course thinking, again,

G. ASAEDA
it could be bioterrorism, that they had said that even if you didn't have a mask, just take your tie and put it on your face, that seems to eliminate 80 percent of what may be around you. I remember thinking, they said this would work, they said this would work, and tried to breathe through this, but still everything in my mouth and whatnot.
Now, trying to make the escape out, I didn't know which way to go. Someone yelled, I think it's this way, and somebody had a camera, whether it was a photographer or whatnot, and I remember the person was flashing his camera towards us saying come towards the flash. So we made it to the flash, still pitch black, by chance met up with Captain Abdo from EMS, and I said, are all of our EMS people accounted for? He said, yes, they are. I said, then we need to get out of here. Then I said, oh, and we've got to get the patients, because at this point it was kind of, you know, we've got to get the patients as well, grabbed whoever we could. Luckily, they were for the most part all walking wounded, and even the ones that were lying were at this point up and had ducked with us.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: Let me stop you there, Doctor.

G. ASAEDA
DR.ASAEDA: Yes.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: You said there
were about 30 people you crammed into this little alcove or pathway from the loading area to the lobby of 7 World Trade.
DR.ASAEDA: Correct.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: Did you know
any of those other people?
DR.ASAEDA: JusttheEMSpersonnel. I
didn't recognize any of the Fire side personnel. Also I recognized one of the security personnel from 7 World Trade just because I used to go there weekly for the Mayor's PAD, public access defibrillation meeting. I recognized him. I also recognized the person who said he was either Secret Service or security, not as knowing him but just as he was next to me when we dove for cover, and then the patients who we had brought with us. But other than that, I didn't recognize any other personnel.
A. At that point, we got to the exit, made a decision to evacuate, got the patients, still not knowing which way to go because we really hadn't been able to determine what actually came down or what had happened. The decision was either to go left or right

G. ASAEDA
and we ended up going right, between the two buildings, in the alleyway on the north, which turned out to be the right direction because apparently there was a lot of debris and part of 7 down already. Also, I did notice as I was making my exit the sound of the firefighters' alarms indicating that they were down. I did remember that as well but just could not see anything.
As we got into the alleyway, it just started to get a little bit lighter, almost like a dusk/dawn type of deal. We got through the alleyway, got half a block up - - I don't even remember which block that was, but saw one of the first ambulances, I think it was a Cabrini ambulance, one of the voluntary hospital ambulances with people just crammed on board. I made the decision to remove them because they were not hurt. I said, we have patients that are hurt. We loaded three or four and I remember just hitting the side of the ambulance and saying, go, go, go, go, and the driver, the EMT or medic, shouted back or looked back, where are we supposed to go? I said, just go north, just go north. So they took off.
I saw another ambulance. At this point, also, I saw people from OEM. Eddie Gabriel, who is one

G . ASAEDA
of our EMS chiefs, was over there coming in with -- I think he had somebody on his arm. We saw police officers. There were some firefighters now in gear but not recognizable because of the dust. I didn't remember any identifying markers on them either.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: Where was t h i s now, Doctor? On West Street?
DR. ASAEDA: This is actually on -- let's see. This was West. This was Vesey. We took the
l i t t l e alleyway between the telephone building and 7 World Trade, ended up on the next block.
Q. Park Place? Murray?
A. It may have been Murray. There was a parking lot adjacent to it. It was a smaller street. I think may have been Park Place.
Q. Yes, I think so, too.
A. Then at that point I saw some of the OEM people that I recognized, just happy to see that they were okay. I got to the next ambulance, put people on board. At that point my beeper was going off. It just seemed to be the only thing that was actually going off. It turned out to be my wife calling because she had heard that I was going, and while I'm trying to coordinate everybody going, I actually picked up the

G . ASAEDA
phone and tried to dial. It didn't go through.
Once I got them on the ambulance, I actually
stopped and looked at the corner and saw that there was a pay phone and thought to myself, this is a Verizon phone. There's no way that would be working. I thought, well, I have nothing to lose at this point. I dug into my pocket, happened to find a quarter, the onlychangeIhad,andIthoughttomyself,it's probably with my luck one of those 35-cent phones anyway, you know, it's going to be like that. I get there, pick it up, it's a 25-cent call, dial tone is there surprisingly, dropped a quarter in and actually it goes through.
knew that you were going to be there, the first tower came down. I said, listen, calm down. I'm okay. I'm not going to do anything to endanger myself further. I'm okay. Do me a favor, call my mom in San Francisco, let her know that I'm okay, and then I hung up the phone. I said, I'll call you when I can, and then proceeded back towards the north tower.
At that point I stopped myself and thought to myself, you've got to be smart about this. The first tower came down. There's a great chance that the

G. ASAEDA
second one might as well. So I went back up half a block through the parking lot and then back onto West.
Q. You didn't know about the second plane at this point, but you knew the second tower was burning? A. I didn't even know that the second tower was
burning because I had no information that the second tower was hit.
Q. Gotit.
A. So all the way up until the Secret Service or the security, whoever he happened to be, told me that the other plane was missing, that one plane had hit the Pentagon and another was missing, up until that point I knew nothing of a potential terrorist attack. It was only in my mind thinking in this day and age, it could be terrorism, so be careful. As a matter of fact, when I saw all that dust come through, I thought at that point, while I was walking, I thought, this must be anthrax. I mean, that's something that definitely went through my mind.
So at that point all our patients were onto the ambulances, our EMS group kind of disbanded, but I saw Captain Abdo on West and - - again, I'm not familiar with it. It's about one block further north of where 7 used to be. I met him at the corner and at that point

G . ASAEDA
we were literally thinking of going back towards 1 World Trade, knowing that the command post was there, stopped ourselves thinking we've got to be smart about this, this i s something else that might come down, and as we had thought that, the sound before the sight coming, saw the second tower actually come down and then heard it afterwards, a t which point a l l of us turned north and started running. We got about a block, maybe half a block, ducked into a little alcove where there were probably 30 police officers,
firefighters, again, I don't recognize any shield numbers or helmet numbers, against the wall, when other cops ran by and said, you're just not fucking far enough. So we turned around and ran north, at which point the plume of the smoke, again, kind of a warm feeling came by us, luckily no debris, almost kind of lifting us and then kind of surrounding us again.
Then, a t that point, when everything settled, we set up another treatment area at the corner of -- what corner is that? I don't recall. It's just south of Chambers, about a block south of Chambers. We s e t up another treatment area, started to see some of the walking wounded. There weren't too many people seriously injured. There were some firefighters that

G. ASAEDA
were complaining of smoke, of just inhalation and dust. We gave them some oxygen. That I'm sure was tracked because I had our EMT write down the names, but I can't recall any names.
There was one firefighter that he had given me his name, I actually wrote it down, I still have, saying that I'm sure they think I'm missing, please notify command that I'm okay. That I actually wrote down and I actually went to one of the chiefs and they took the name down, but their communications weren't
100 percent either. So they were trying to do what they could. I made that initial report.
At that point, while we were treating some patients and not more than maybe ten if that, they said there's suspicious packages around. I think the police officers came by and said we needed to evacuate. So we actually walked everyone further north another block and this time got to the Borough of Manhattan Community College and up on, I guess in their gymnasium area, up the stairs, we set up an area. We wanted to try to keep people like myself who were contaminated kind of out, keeping the area relatively fresh. So people who were covered like myself were kind of treating people on the outside, and those that were clean, those people

G. ASAEDA
were inside giving oxygen and water.
We were probably there for about 20, 30
minutes, when we were told that there's suspicious packages again, and this time people were running towards north again saying that there's a gas leak. So we evacuated everybody and started running again, and at this point I think we all decided we're going to get as far north as we could, decided to go to Chelsea, and I thought that was a good area because just being there initially realizing this was really going to be a body recovery, unfortunately, I thought that the ice rink would be a good place for a temporary morgue. I had heard in the past, I have a friend that works at DEA, that that was a huge facility.
As a matter of fact, I took one of the Japanese firefighters from Tokyo, who was interested in that kind of thing, while he was visiting the Fire Department here, he wanted me to stop by there just to see what kind of health facilities they had to take back to Japan with him. So I remember actually seeing the facility and remembering that it was large enough that, if they would allow us to use that facility, that would be an ideal location.
Then, as I was running, an ambulance, I don't

G . ASAEDA
even know who it was, I think it was a volunteer ambulance pulled up and just yelled, Doc, jump in. We were jumping into the ambulance, seven other people, kind of all in disarray. I remember thinking what just happened? Then I was dropped off at Chelsea, met with Chief Pascale and Chief Kowalczyk, who were at that point for EMS command, and then we decided to set the hospital area there.
About an hour after, they asked for us to return back to the -- I guess the Fire command post on Chambers and West. Then a couple hours thereafter, you know, we were trying to evaluate the best we could, 7 came down. I remember running again and some of the Fire guys started running and stopped and I guess they realized that we were far away enough. But I remember
I just kept running until -- I figured
everything down, I ' l l keep running. I
block and then realized, okay, maybe I
silly. But I walked back to the command post, and then we tried to come up with a plan.
Then for the rest of the night we were trying to set up a hospital area, one at Stuyvesant High School, which we were able to set up, also trying to set up some strike teams up near the rubble pile,
until I see got about a was a little

G . ASAEDA
really mainly for rescuers at this point, just
realizing there wasn't going to be many victims, but in case a victim was pulled out. I was there for about the next, I think, total of like 28 hours on the first day, just trying to coordinate what we could, communicating with OEM as well as to the federal assets that were coming. We heard that the DEMAT teams were coming, also that the FEMA USAR task force things were coming.
By this point, John Claire, Commissioner Claire, as well as Dr. Gonzalez and Dr. Richmond, who were also at the upstate meeting, were flown back apparently by state trooper helicopter. This was probably three, four hours into it, I think by 11:OO or 12:OO in the afternoon, and they were trying to coordinate what they could from their site. At that point, Dr. Gonzalez, who is really in charge of our New York task force, USAR, Urban Search and Rescue
Team, decided that he would put together some semblance of a team to do some of the rescue efforts. So part of our obligation, myself, as being the doctor there throughout the night, would be to cover the main medical command as well as the USAR activities as
well.

G. ASAEDA
At this same point, I heard that Dr. Prezant and/or Dr. Kelly had set up something at Pace, on that side. Initially, Dr. Cherson had set something up at the Liberty Street side, I think by the ferries. So I knew that we had good coverage in the areas. Then the rest of it was just trying to set up and coordinate. A lot of volunteers, medical staff and whatnot, came up very early, but I don't think they realized what magnitude of disaster this was. I had surgeons, I think 30 surgeons from a college conference at one of the hotels showed up by busload saying we're surgeons, we're here to help. I said, it would be great, but there's no one to pull out at this point. If you don't mind loading the water, that's what we're going to need at this point, you know, we sent everybody to Chelsea Piers and set up things over there.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: Did you see any patients that night?
DR.ASAEDA: Yes.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: Approximately
how many?
DR. ASAEDA: All the patients that I saw were rescuers in some shape or form. None were from the initial collapse. A lot of things in their eyes, which

G. ASAEDA
we washed out, some respiratory complaints, some minor bumps and bruises, someone that actually needed some sutures and whatnot. The way we had it set up was that anyone who needed a transport would be placed onto the ambulance and actually sent to the hospital because we also coordinated with the hospitals to find out what they could handle and we were told that initially they got some of the burns and the sick patients from the initial planes, but that was only a few hundred throughout the hospitals. We looked at Downtown Beekman, Bellevue, St. Vincent's, as far as Cabrini as well, and we were told that, after the initial wave, they weren't getting any patients, they were ready, so we knew that we didn't really need to do too much treatment on the scene, we would try to go back to the way that things are normally run in these disasters where we'd do an initial triage, do basic treatment that we can, and then ship them to the hospital. We felt that's where they would better be served. But it turned out that there weren't that many victims from the rubble.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: Just a couple other questions.
DR.ASAEDA: Yes.

G. ASAEDA
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: When did you find out for the first time that a second plane had hit the other tower?
DR. ASAEDA: This was after, I guess after my initial run and as I was looking at the north tower and thinking of going back, they had said, yeah, did you hear the second plane hit that as well? Then I started to put things together thinking this was obviously a terrorist attack. But not until then, again, I think mainly because I was in the tunnel when the second plane had hit and Citywide at some spots apparently doesn't come through and the traffic was to hard to get on that I actually I got on the radio to tell them, 784 was my identifier for the day, 784, show me
responding. I just could not get through after about three attempts and just tried to go on by computer, but that was logged as well, so I couldn't actually log on that way.
Again, in retrospect, maybe I should have had an FM station on. That would have at least given me the news. But not thinking to that extent, I just had 1010 WINS on. It must have taken me - - you know, I must have found out about the first plane maybe five to ten minutes after it actually hit because I actually do

G. ASAEDA
remember seeing the smoke. I was in the tunnel when the second plane hit, popped out probably soon thereafter, and then with everything was trying to get on scene and listen to the radio. Again, I didn't hear anything about a confirmed second crash, either that or I just wasn't paying close enough attention or just didn't know about the second plane.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: My other question has to do with West Street.
DR.ASAEDA: Yes.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: Either when
you were coming over to 7 World Trade for the first time or after you evacuated 7 World Trade after the first collapse, did you notice a lot of rigs and buses lined up on West Street from like the command post on down?
DR.ASAEDA: Iremembermoreparticularlyon West Street, the south end of West Street, between the south tower and the first tower, I would guess, a lot of vehicles, heavy fire rescue vehicles and ambulances as well. I don't remember as many north of Vesey. I do remember there was like a ladder truck on the corner of West and Vesey, actually on West, on the northbound lane facing the opposite direction. That vehicle I do

G . ASAEDA
remember and then sporadically here and there some other vehicles as well.
Where I parked my vehicle, I remember the vehicle I parked next to was a traffic enforcement vehicle, and then there were some -- they looked like I think it was a marked, no light, fire protection type vehicle I had seen as well, if I remember.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: Was your vehicle destroyed?
DR. ASAEDA: Yes, it was.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: Chief Downey's
vehicle, can you describe it, when you saw i t ?
DR. ASAEDA: It was a dark-colored, unmarked
car. I thought it was kind of particularly odd in that he looked to me like he was sitting in the back seat, behind the passenger, which would seem odd to me because I would think that, I guess, if he wasn't driving himself, he would be in the passenger's side. But in retrospect, he could have been in the passenger's side as well because he actually moved right past me, not very quickly but just enough for me to actually recognize him and say, oh, Chief, and then he got in front of me. Again, once we got onto West Street from the south end, there were probably 20 to 30

G . ASAEDA
vehicles already parked and then another 20 vehicles trying to get through, so I realized that I would not be able to continue. As Chief Downey's vehicle went forward and, again, seeing the ambulances on the left, I decided to go there, at least just get out of the traffic pattern. Then that actually worked in my
benefit because I was able to bring the side street, the service road.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY:
Kevin?
MR. McALLISTER: I don't have
questions. Do you have any other recollections or observations to share with us, Doctor?
DR. ASAEDA: That's about everything. I mean, obviously, all the volunteers, I know that everyone had great intentions, but I guess they didn't realize the extent of things. Just a tragedy.
Also, the other thing I remember is we used to have an EMT that worked here who was actually on the 86th floor of the World Trade building and I thought to myself, he must be in there. I thought he was gone, very afraid to call his family, as he was afraid to call me. When I finally found out he was okay via the office here, I called him and he had said that he
vehicle up the
Anything else,
any further

G . ASAEDA
actually was also an auxiliary firefighter here in New York City and had some thoughts of becoming a firefighter earlier. But he said as he was making his evacuation and seeing the firefighters come up fully loaded with their gear and their hoses going up to the floors to fight the fires, he said he was thanking everyone, thank you for what you do, thank you for what you do, and he said a l l thoughts of ever being a firefighter went right out the door for him there.
I can only imagine what they must have been going through, and hearing that there's 343 firefighters lost, initially, over 300 initially, just the thought of that is just tremendous, but when I actually saw the names on the list, it made me think twice again and also looking at the pictures. Now, not recalling the names exactly, seeing the pictures, I recognized one of the faces and I realized that there were more people that I knew through the Dominican Republic deployment or even through the bioterrorism course. I don't remember if he's a chief. I think it's Chief Fanning or Captain Fanning was lost as
well. I saw his picture on that. There was another chief that was on that list as well that I recognized from the class and it's just horrific. Not that not

G. ASAEDA
knowing them makes any difference, but it just adds that personal touch that makes it really sad.
I didn't realize that Commissioner Feehan actually lived in the neighborhood that I just moved to a couple of months ago, and so once I got off the World Trade Center site, I heard about his wake the night before and went to the funeral, and it's just very hard to take, as I'm sure you know. Just devastating.
doctor.
Doctor.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: Thank you,
DR. ASAEDA: Sure. Thank you very much. MR. McALLISTER: Thank you very much,
DR.ASAEDA: Ifyouneedanythingmore, please let me know.
MR. McALLISTER: I'm just going to conclude the interview it's 1612 hours on October 11th and we are concluding the interview. Thank you.
File No. 9110063
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
     FIREFIGHTER VINCENT FIORENTINO
   Interview Date:  October 12, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
V. FIORENTINO
2
          MR. CUNDARI:  Today's date is October 12,
     2001.  The time is 10 o'clock.  This is George
     Cundari and Murray Murad with the Fire Department
     of the City of New York.  I'm conducting an
     interview with the following individual.
     Q.   Please state your name, rank, title and
assigned command.
     A.   Vincent Fiorentino, Firefighter first grade.
42 Battalion.
     Q.   We are at 8653 18 Avenue, Battalion 42.  Can
you please tell us the events that happened regarding
the September 11 tragedy?
     A.   We were in the kitchen in the morning
watching Channel 5 news.  They were giving a report
about the primary election and the camera swung over
and showed the first building, the fire and they said
plane, we thought small plane, something like that.
The Chief and I came up to the office, figuring that we
were going to go pretty quick.  We took extra lights,
put them on the rig and we didn't immediately go.  Took
the 40 and 48 first from our end of Brooklyn.
     Q.   What Chief was that?
     A.   What Chiefs went?
     Q.   Who was the Chief?
             V. FIORENTINO
A.   Chief Coyne.
3
     Q.   Then we got our ticket at 910 to relocate to
the 32.  En route with that, we got changed to a third
alarm assignment for the Battery Tunnel, Brooklyn
side.  When we got to there, we were told by Brooklyn
that the 42 and the 41 were going to -- we were pulled
back to Brooklyn and we had our complete third alarm
assignment at the tunnel.  With that, at some point
Brooklyn took units off of our ticket and they were
getting another box, another Manhattan box, an Albany
Street box I believe it was.  A few of them, I know 201
was one of those numbers on that that was taken off.
They went through the tunnel ahead of us.  That was
right before the first collapse.  201 was caught in
that collapse.  I believe 113 was also in that group
that was taken out of our group and they back filled
the assignment and when the first collapse came, the
reports at the tunnel were that the tunnel collapsed or
that there was a collapse at the other end of the
tunnel and we were trying to get confirmation from the
tunnel people as to what was happening.  They were kind
of vague with that.
          The Chief assigned a couple of units to
assist in the evacuation of the tunnel and prior to
V. FIORENTINO
4
that we were -- I was on the radio with Brooklyn and we
were right at the toll plaza where there was still
traffic coming out of Manhattan and our guys were
grouped together standing and I didn't see the building
come down, but by looking at them I realized what was
happening with the first tower.  Then we were ordered
by orders of Chief Cruthers, to take the entire
assignment and go to the Brooklyn Bridge.  That's what
we proceeded to do.  We left those other units there, I
know 102 was one of them.  They went into the tunnel to
assist the people coming out of the tunnel.
          Then we went to the Brooklyn Bridge and then
we were stopped at the Brooklyn Bridge and they had a
report that the other side was possibly untenable and
the 42 Battalion went alone, left the rest of the
assignment behind as a scout unit to check.  We saw
that Chambers Street was clear.  We reported back to
Brooklyn and the rest of the third alarm assignment
came over with us.  From there we reported in to the
command post that was at Park Row and Broadway.
     Q.   Around City Hall?
     A.   At the point of City Hall park.  We met Chief
Haring there.  We were assigned to work with the 15th
Division, I think it was, and we went and operated in
V. FIORENTINO
5
number 5 World Trade Center.  We assisted in the
removal of 3 people from the concourse area.  One guy
who had an I beam on him in the bottom of this number 5
building.  We finished that operation, then that
building was on fire.
     Q.   Where was your Battalion car parked?
     A.   We parked right along City Hall park.
     Q.   Then you walked over to --
     A.   We walked to the command post, then we walked
up Vesey Street.
     Q.   At this time was the tower still standing one
of them or both were down?
     A.   I think they both were down.  I mean it was
like a wind storm of paper and dust, which I understand
they said it was generated by that.  It wasn't a windy
day.  We operated there and then we operated on the
fire in number 5 and then later we swung around and we
were at a sub cellar fire at the Bankers Trust
building; 130 Liberty.  We operated in 130 Liberty.
     Q.   Do you recall who was in that building?
     A.   What companies?
     Q.   Yes, Chief or anyone in there?
     A.   There were other Chiefs there that that --
21, 43 and 42 and we were gathering up guys that had
V. FIORENTINO
6
cylinders that were able to go down because it was
pushing from this sub cellar.  So there was a lot of
guys at that point that was later on, but a lot of guys
didn't have masks.  The Chief stopped guys from
assisting us further down the stairs without the
masks.  We made one push, we expended our masks,
everybody came out and then they went hunting down more
cylinders.  They found more cylinders and we went down
with a second push and put those fires out down there.
After that we were on the pile of number 2.
     Q.   Doing a search?
     A.   Right, that's how we operated, to the best of
my knowledge.  Time frames and all, I don't know.  To
me it seemed like all one big -- it was nighttime and
when we started out it was morning.  It went by very
quickly in that vein of things.
     Q.   Which channel were you operating on, Channel
1?
     A.   When we got over to Manhattan we were told to
switch to Manhattan.  We switched to Manhattan and the
Chief stayed on 1 and I switched mine, I think it was
to 5 and both radios had a lot of Maydays.  When we
first came over there were a lot of Mayday calls, but
you couldn't really know where they were all coming
V. FIORENTINO
7
from.  Then the radio quieted down after that, at least
the channels we were on.
     Q.   Initially it came in as a third alarm?
     A.   We went to a third alarm staging.  They do
that when they have a large fire somewhere.  They bring
units from other boroughs to be ready to go in for the
next wave.  That's basically the best I can remember.
     Q.   You had a lot of people passing you on the
streets, a lot of civilians going, trying to get out of
there when you got there?
     A.   When we hit the corner of Church and
Chambers, we ran into two firemen that were totally
disoriented and had lost their company, lost contact
with their company.  They were -- best description
shell shocked.  We took their names and we told them to
continue heading more towards midtown to get out of the
storm.
          Like I said, the paperwork that we had
anything written on disappeared.  We came back to our
car later in the night.  It was filled with about 25
pairs of shoes, jackets.  A lot of things were taken
from the car, but there were no -- we had our masks
with us.  The guys wanted to take our masks when we
were responding.  We had to to like -- that's about it.
V. FIORENTINO
8
     MR. CUNDARI:  Thank you for giving this
interview.  The time is 1010.  This is the
conclusion of the tape.

F i l e No. 9110064
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW BA TT ALION C H I E F DOMINICK DeRUBBIO Interview Date: October 12, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins

D. DeRUBBIO
MR. CUNDARI: The time is 10:15, and this is George Cundari with Murray Murad from the Fire Department of the City of New York. I'm conducting an interview with the following individual.
Q. Please state your name, rank, title and
assigned command.
A. My name is Battalion Chief Dominick
DeRubbio. I'm assigned to Division 8. I'm doing the 25R group in Battalion 21. That morning I was surplus, so I was assigned to the field comm. unit .
I was running late that morning.
I go^ o u ~la~e. I was driving in, and I was on the Gowanus and traffic was
backed up. So I got off the Gowanus, and I tried to cut through Park Slope. Then I saw the smoke sort of to the west. I said, "Oh, it looks like we have a job somewhere."
Then I put on 1010 Wins, and then I heard that a plane had crashed into the World Trade Center. So I said, "Well, field comm. is going to be gone, so I'm going to have to get to

D . DeRUBBIO
quarters." I parked the car, got my gear and started to get over there.
When I made the turn onto Flatbush Avenue, I could see the World Trade Center. I
could see the smoke. I knew we had our hands full here.
Q. What quarters were you responding to?
A. I was going to field comm., which is Tillary Street. I was responding to their quarters. Traffic in downtown Brooklyn was a mess. I remember it was pretty jammed up down there. Then listening to 1010 Wins, I heard another plane crashed into the other tower. I said, "Wow."
I got to quarters, parked my car, grabbed my gear, and there was a group of some other firemen there. We walked over to the Brooklyn Bridge, which was closed. The cops had that closed. They got a Department of Sanitation car, and he drove us over the Brooklyn Bridge.
We got to like Chambers right in front of One Centre Street. It was just chaos. People were evacuating out of Manhattan. Everybody was coming towards us. So we walked through City

D . DeRUBBIO
Hall Park over to Vesey Street.
I remember s e e i n g Commissioner Von
Essen. He was in front of Seven World Trade Center. They were looking at the fire in the tower. I noticed a lot of airplane parts in the street, a lot of gears and stuff like that.
Q. Excuse me. What was the location that you saw the airplane parts?
A. Going down Vesey, sort of in front of Seven World Trade Center. I knew they were airplane parts. You could see gears and pieces of airplane.
I got down to West Street and went south, and I saw field comm. They were in front
of Two World Financial Center. They van s e t up there. I remember seeing Cassano, and I remember seeing Chief
had their Chief
Cross there.
So I reported in to field comm. I tried to get myself a radio. There were no radios left. All the radios were taken out of the van. I remember stowing my gear under the table, the field comm. table. I was talking to Chief Cassano. He needed a battery. I got him a battery, and I changed the battery in his radio

D. DeRUBBIO
for him. He was standing there.
People were jumping out of towers. We
were on West there. They were jumping out, and they were landing in the street in front of us. Just something you try not to pay too much attention to, you know.
There was a group of people there. There were people waiting for assignments. I remember someone saying they wanted to know if they could land helicopters on the roof. I think Chief Cassano said it can't be done.
After a while we were looking up at the tower, and all of a sudden someone said it's starting to come down.
Q.
down? A.
Q. A.
This would be the north tower coming
This would be the first one.
Or the south tower?
This one here.
It was weird how it started to come looked like it was a timed explosion,
down. It
but I guess it was just the floors starting to pancake one on top of the other.
Luckily where the field comm. unit was,

D . DeRUBBIO
there was a big open door behind us, a big roll-down door which was open, and that led to a ramp which went into the basement of Two World Financial Center. So pretty much everybody turned around and went down this ramp into the basement of the building.
A lot of debris came down where we were, and it also came down the ramp. All the dust and the smoke came down. Most of us who went down there -- I would say all of us -- were lucky we got out of the way.
After a while we sort of regrouped back tothetopoftheramp. Iwaswithacop. He had a flashlight. It was so dark, you couldn't see anything, but we went back up and looked around to see if there was anybody up there. We didn't see anybody.
I tried to find my gear, and my gear was buried.
Q. Do you recall who went downstairs with you?
A. I'm pretty sure Chief Cassano was with me and Lieutenant Gates from f i e l d comm. There were some EMS people there. There was probably

D . DeRUBBIO
some officers and some companies there also. It probably had to be about 30 people went down that ramp. Like I said, we were pretty lucky we had that, because if that door was closed I think we would have gotten h i t with debris where we were standing.
Afterwards we went back down the ramp, and I was able to find a staircase. I walked into the lobby and went out the back of the building, which faced the Hudson River. People were starting to drift over to the west side. I think Marine Company 9 was there, and there were two New York City Waterway ferry boats there.
So I told the pilot in the marine company, "Tell the dispatcher any injured people, bring them to the Hudson River," because it was a clear area at the time and we had boats that were evacuating people t o New Jersey. I know the
marine company took quite a few people there and over to Jersey.
Q. Where was the marine company A. They had to be -- let's see. Q. Here's North End Street.
A. They had to be over here. I
out of
docked?
think it

D . DeRUBBIO
was south of this -- they were right here. People were coming west and coming over. They had quite a few people on their boat, and they took them, like I said, to Jersey. We were trying to help people evacuate and get over towards the Hudson River.
I didn't have a radio. I never got a radio, so I really didn't know what was going on. Eventually I was sort of behind the Winter Garden, and I had picked up a mask. I figured I might need it later. I didn't have a mask either. There was a mask laying there. I picked it up.
I was looking over the Winter Garden at the second tower, and then I saw that starting to come down. There were people standing next to me. We all just started running. I was able to get around the corner of another building, and I got into a doorway and put my mask on.
Q. So you ran north in the Winter Garden? This is the Winter Garden over here.
A. It had to be -- yeah, I ran -- it was probably around this building. I was able to hunker down i n a doorway.

D. DeRUBBIO
Q. You ran towards North End Street?
A. Yeah. I put my mask on. Like you say, you're sort of in shock that this thing even happened. It was really difficult.
After that it seemed like everybody started moving north. I met Lieutenant Gates, and we tried to set up the command board again, tried to get some kind of organization going, but it was kind of difficult.
Eventually we pretty much made our way north up to Chambers and West, and that's where the command post was set up. We had the staging, which was north of that by Stuyvesant High School.
That's pretty much it as far as I can
remember.
Q. Murray, got any questions?
I just want to know, there was no assigned radio to you?
A. There was, but by the time I got there, all the radios had been taken.
Q. Okay. All right.
A. I guess people coming in, they stripped that whole field comm. van of radios.

D. DeRUBBIO
That was it.
Q. Chief, I'd like to thank you for your
time and for doing this interview.
MR. CUNDARI: It's 10:25. This
     concludes the interview.
File No. 9110065
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         LIEUTENANT GARY GATES
   Interview Date:  October 12, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
G. GATES 2
          MR. McCOURT:  The date is October 12th,
     2001.  My name is Tom McCourt from the New
     York City Fire Department.  This is in
     reference to the World Trade Center on
     September 11th, 2001.
          Would you please state your name,
     please.
          LIEUTENANT GATES:  Lieutenant Gary
     Gates, lieutenant in field comm. for about
     the last year and a half.
          MR. McCOURT: Also present is --
          MR. DUN:  Richard Dun, New York City
     Fire Department, working on the task force.
     Q.   Lieutenant Gates, would you tell us
what your assignment was on September 11th?
     A.   My assignment was that I was the
lieutenant in field comm. and would work with two
other people from DISCO having to do with the
dispatchers.  We were taking on multiple alarms,
and the multiple alarm was the World Trade Center
that came in around quarter to, 10 to 9.
     Q.   Lieutenant, who were you working with?
     A.   It was John Turverso and Richie
Chiarillo.
G. GATES 3
     Q.   Are they firefighters?
     A.   They are Fire Department employees who
were not in uniform.  They work for the
dispatchers unit, communications dispatch.
          We were able to see the smoke from
quarters, and at that moment the second alarm
came in for the Manhattan World Trade Center.  We
responded with the small van, because the other
ones were out of service.  We went down over
there.
          Going over the Brooklyn Bridge, we
could see one of the towers -- I couldn't tell
you which tower at that moment was burning when
we looked to the south.  We found out later that
the north tower was hit first; is that correct?
     Q.   Correct.
     A.   So that was the tower that was burning.
          We went on to Broadway, and we driving
down Broadway.  When we got to about Maiden Lane,
the amount of people going across Broadway to
evacuate from the building there was enough to
bring us down to a standstill.
          I said to Richie, who was driving at
the time, "Let's start the command here," because
G. GATES 4
you could see the fire.  It was a fairly good
place to be, I thought, anyhow.
          I was out trying to help Richie and
move people away from the van so that we could
drive down and get a little closer, when Richie
yelled that the dispatcher just notified him that
they want the command post to be set up on West
Street.
     Q.   What frequency were you operating on,
what radio frequency?
     A.   The primary at that time would be
Manhattan, the Manhattan frequency.  As soon as
we get to a multiple alarm in that borough, we go
to the frequency of that borough.  So we were on
the Manhattan frequency.
          So we drove down further south to try
to work our way over to West Street.  We were
able to do this, and we came up from West Street.
I'm not sure which street we came on to West
Street from.  It was south of Albany, I believe,
whatever.  Probably Rector.  We were able to get
through near Rector, and we drove up.  Rector or
Carlton.  As I said, I don't really remember.
There were many, many people.
G. GATES 5
          As we drove up to West Street, we were
going against traffic.  At that moment Chief
Ganci was standing right outside and he yelled,
"Gary, right here," meaning set up the board
here.  That was about exactly opposite of One
World Trade Center, which we didn't even know the
number at that point.  I knew it was the most
northern tower.
          Chief Ganci said, "Set it up right
here."  We opened the board, put it together.  At
that time more groups, more companies, were
coming.  So we picked the board up and moved it
back towards the west side of West Street and up
against -- back where there's a parking lot that
leads into the building, where the parking lot
leads into the building, which later on it
happened to be very fortunate to be there.
          We set it up there.  Again, my position
is we draw a schematic of what we see, the two
buildings in front of us.  At that point, then,
the chief starts to disperse troops.  Okay, we're
going to send these companies to this particular
section.
          My job is to note that on the board so
G. GATES 6
you can have an overall picture of where the
troops are going, where the firefighters, the
officers are going.  So you put that down on the
board.  The last I remember was Dennis Cross,
Chief Cross, was given I think three units to go
to the south tower.  So off he went.
          Then, again, no idea what time -- I
have a watch, but I'm trying to move everything
together at the same time.  I looked up, and the
building exploded, the building that we were very
close to, which was one tower.  The whole top
came off like a volcano.
     Q.   What was that, was that the second
plane hitting?
     A.   I realized later, which actually I
realized in talking with people over a period of
two weeks, that had to be the collapse, because
since that was the north tower which was hit by a
plane first, the other tower was hit by a plane
just before we got there.  So now both towers
have been hit by a plane.  The north tower was
burning.
          So the explosion, what I realized
later, had to be the start of the collapse.  It
G. GATES 7
was the way the building appeared to blowout from
both sides.  I'm looking at the face of it, and
all we see is the two sides of the building just
blowing out and coming apart like this, as I
said, like the top of a volcano.
          With that, I believe it was about 60 of
us at the command board at that time, just turned
around and went down into this parking lot, which
happened to be very fortunate, as I said, because
the 60 of us went down there.
          I found out later on that Dennis Cross
and the guys he was with -- again, I don't know
the amount of units that he was sent with -- were
found on West Street, from what I understand.  So
he never even got to the building.
     Q.   He was approaching it as it collapsed?
     A.   Yeah, yeah, I would say that.
     Q.   Where was Chief Ganci at that time?
     A.   Chief Ganci was within ten feet of the
board.  I saw Chief Feehan.  I saw him and many
of the other chiefs who were finally coming in, a
lot of guys off duty, other guys working, stuff
like that.  I couldn't tell you a lot of their
names because I'm not very familiar with a lot of
G. GATES 8
the chiefs' names and stuff like that.
          I know one gentleman who I worked with
him in fire prevention, Chief Tom Murphy, he was
there.  Another gentleman, Chief Dominic -- I'd
have to look up his last name, but he was there.
These two guys are still okay today.
     Q.   They went to the same location you did?
     A.   Yeah, yeah.
          (Interruption.)
     A.   So as I said, we all went down in the
basement.  I found out later on that some of the
guys had gone back up again.  We had about 30
people downstairs who were trying to find a back
door out.  Not being familiar with the building,
we found one of the parking lot officers there
that dispatches trucks or receives trucks.
          From there we were able to find a
stairway going up by sending out what I would
call scouts or something like that.  Finally we
were able to get upstairs and went out through
the Winter Garden back door.
     Q.   So you came into the Winter Garden.
From there where did you go?
     A.   From there we walked over to Vesey
G. GATES 9
Street.  We went around to the right to go to
Vesey Street to try to go up around to the front
of the building at Vesey and West to get back
into the game, so to speak.
          At that time, again talking to this
other chief officer, we were trying to regroup on
that street there, Vesey and West.  There were
many injured firefighters at that time and
firemen who were dislocated from their units.  We
were trying to take some kind of consensus of who
was there to start to set up some kind of command
post or reorganize.
     Q.   Do you recognize the highest ranking
officer in this area at the time?  Do you recall?
     A.   There was a chief there, but I could
not recall who it was.
          At that time this Chief Tom Murphy was
going to go with the Secret Service.  They were
apparently going back to the building coming
through the back by the Winter Garden and go back
into the building to see if they could get out
front, I guess.
          As we went around the corner, they all
came running back.  We all ran back around that
G. GATES 10
building that we were in back of, which was on I
guess it was North End Avenue or South End
Avenue, whichever it was there.
          That's when the next building came
down.  It was a big heavy cloud of smoke that
came right around and followed us in there.  We
were able to get into another parking garage or
something like that.  So the smoke just blew past
us.
     Q.   Who was with you at that point?
     A.   Several people from the building and
one other fire officer.  I couldn't tell you his
name.
     Q.   Everybody was okay?
     A.   Yeah.  There were only about five of us
in there.  We went one way.  People were
scattering all over the place.
     Q.   Where did you come out?  The same way?
     A.   We came out the same way.  We went back
to that street, stuff like that.  We again went
back to Vesey Street to again try to reorganize
what was going on.  Then we found out everybody
was going up to Chambers Street and West, so we
all walked to Chambers Street.
G. GATES 11
          We met Chief Cruthers up there.  Again,
we left the board that I used, the command board.
Since that was now outside the front part, that
had gotten -- we found out later -- we don't even
know where it is right now.  We know the van that
we drove up was flattened.  The board, they don't
know where it is.
     Q.   Would you just indicate on the map
where the second command post was set up.
     A.   The second command post, when I was
with Chief Cruthers, was up here at West Street
on the north side of the overpass.  I'm sorry,
that's Vesey Street.  Okay, up here at Chambers
Street.  Chambers Street, the north side of
Chambers Street and West.  That was actually the
second command post after the collapse of the two
buildings.
     Q.   You remained there for the duration?
     A.   We remained there until after Seven
World Trade Center collapsed, which I found out
later on was about 5:00 that day, something like
that.
          Then after that it seemed like we were
stretched out.  There was companies in front of
G. GATES 12
us, companies behind us in the staging area.  At
that time Chief Cruthers moved the command post
up to Vesey and West.  That's where we started to
work out of at that point.  That was our primary
command post for about four days, and that's
where we worked out of.
     Q.   Anything else you can think of?  Any
other people that you saw there that you may be
able to pinpoint what their actions were right
before or after?
A. The --
     Q.   I'm sorry to interrupt you.  Chief
Ganci and Commissioner Feehan were there with you
at the collapse?
     A.   Yeah, the first collapse.
     Q.   Did they go the same way you did?
     A.   That I don't know.  That I don't know.
     Q.   You don't know which direction?
     A.   Because at that time when the building
collapsed, we made a mad dash.  I was assuming
everybody came with us.  But at that point he had
to come down there because he was close enough to
come down there.  What his actions were later, I
don't know.  I found out later he went back up.
G. GATES 13
I think he was -- from the stories, he was caught
in the second collapse.  He had to go back up.
     Q.   So you didn't see him after that?
     A.   No, no.  After the first collapse and
we went down into that parking garage, I didn't
see Ganci or anybody else.
     Q.   You continued on Manhattan that whole
time or did you switch over?
     A.   Well, at that time we had no -- we only
had handy talky radios at that point.  We stayed
on Channel 1, because that would be the primary
tactical for getting hold of everybody.  We were
just trying to get people to shut down their
handy talkies and conserve their batteries.  We
didn't know what was the duration of this.
     Q.   Who had primary control over
communications?  Did you guys have it?  Before
everything went down.
     A.   Primary control at that point is myself
with the -- we had commcord yeah, commcord was
there.  Again, I'd have to look up to see who it
was.  Chief Ganci, of course.  I believe I saw
Chief Cassano and a couple of the -- I never saw
Burns.
G. GATES 14
          So at that point that was the command
post.  At that point who was in charge then would
be Ganci.  As I said, he was the first one there.
He told me to open up the command board up here,
and then all the other chiefs started coming and
all the other companies started coming.
     Q.   Anything else you can think of?
          MR. McCOURT:  The time now is 8:47.
     The interview started at 8:30.  This
     concludes this interview.  Thank you very
     much.
File No. 9110066
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
             JOHN TRAVERSO
   Interview Date:  October 12, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
J. TRAVERSO
2
          MR. McCOURT:  Today is October 12, 2001.  My
     name is Tom McCourt, New York City Fire
     Department.  I'm working with Richard Dunn, New
     York City Fire Department.
     Q.   We are currently interviewing?
     A.   John Traverso, field comm., fire alarm
dispatcher.
     Q.   Okay, John.  On the date of September 11, the
World Trade Center, can you tell us what your
assignment was that day and everything that you can
recall of that incident.
     A.   Okay, I was assigned to field comm. that
morning.  We were out in front of quarters.  We just
came down to check the rig and we noticed smoke coming
across from Manhattan and as soon as we turned around
to go say something a second alarm was transmitted
right away, so we responded.  Upon going across the
Brooklyn Bridge, we found out via radio that a plane
had hit the building and we proceeded to go to the
location.
          Once we got into Manhattan, we were radioed
by Manhattan to go set up on West Street opposite the
World Trade Center, set up the command post.  So we
responded over to West Street, we backed into a
J. TRAVERSO
3
building, I guess it would be right by the Merrill
Lynch building where there is an underground parking
garage.
          At that time as we were responding there was
numerous people running, just to escape the catastrophe
that had happened.  We backed into the entrance to the
garage --
     Q.   Let me interrupt you a little bit.  Who were
you working with that day?
     A.   Richard Georello and Lieutenant Gates.  We
had a small field comm. van, not the regular field
comm. apparatus at that time.  We were told, as I said,
by Manhattan to set up on West Street opposite of
number 2.  We backed in, we parked the truck on the
ramp in front of the entrance to the underground
parking garage.  At that time Lieutenant Gates set up
the local command board, I proceeded to go into the
back of the van and operate the radios.
          My partner Richie was acting as a go between,
because radio traffic was so intense.  I would give him
messages of whatever I was receiving, people trapped on
different floors and he would hand deliver them over to
the command post where Lieutenant Gates was working so
he could give them to the command Chiefs.
J. TRAVERSO
4
     Q.   What frequencies were you working on, do you
know?
     A.   I believe it was frequency six on the handy
talky, but I was on Manhattan frequency.
Q. Okay.
     A.   Really, because you couldn't get anything in
on the handy talkies because it was so crowded.
     Q.   Okay, go on.
     A.   At the time we couldn't ascertain, but we saw
a couple of bodies fall in the course of this, people
jumping.  In the middle of watching all this and
receiving radio transmissions, I really couldn't look
too well because I had to pay attention to what I was
doing.  At the time I received the report of people
trapped on the 86 floor, I turned to the back of the
van, gave it to Richie, who was working, he was going
to bring it over, he looked up, stated an explicative
and said everybody start running.  Behind the van I
remember seeing Mayor Giuliani, numerous Chiefs.
     Q.   At this time?
     A.   Yes, when I was there just prior to that.  I
seen, it was very crowded, it was all the command
Chiefs.  Assistant Commissioner Gregory was there.  I'm
not sure who else, I don't know, a lot of Chiefs, it
J. TRAVERSO
5
was so crowded.  Everybody in the command sector was at
that command post area.
          As the debris started falling, it had to be
from building two, because the second plane hadn't hit
yet.  People started running, what I did I dove down
into the corner of the van and covered myself.
     Q.   In the van itself?
     A.   In the van itself.  After the debris went by
I was lucky enough.  I had cupped my hands over so I
could breathe a bit.  I crawled out of the van and
crawled down to the parking garage.
     Q.   Was anybody else with you there?
     A.   Nobody else was with me at that time.  Guys
that were already outside.  Everybody took off in
different directions.  A lot of people went down
underneath and then went out the other side of the
building from what I understand.  I met a fireman down
there, a couple of other firemen and we proceeded to go
back further and once it started to clear up, I
ventured out to see where Richie was because he was out
in back of me and I hadn't seen him.
          There was a Battalion Chief I believe it
was.  I don't know who he was, said everybody start
heading towards the water.  So we started heading
J. TRAVERSO
6
towards the water.
     Q.   Which way did you come out of the building?
     A.   I came out the same way, right up to the
field comm. truck because I remember there was one
light still working on it.  You could see through the
dust and the debris the light was going around on it.
You couldn't even get in there.  I wanted to go see if
I could operate the radio but it was shot.  It was
shot.  We started heading for the water.  Then the
second one hit and we started running for the water and
that came down.
          After that I got checked out by EMS.
Luckily, thank god, I was all right.  Took some oxygen.
     Q.   Where was that?  Where were you treated?
     A.   To be the street, had to be --
     Q.   Over by West?
     A.   No, it had to be over here by Vesey.  Vesey,
close to the water.  Not near West, what is that,
north, because they grabbed me because I had some dust
and stuff on me.  I proceeded up to Chambers and West,
because that's where I saw everybody else was going.
At that time I found Lieutenant Gates.  He was trying
to set up a command post at that time.  There was a
little bit of pandemonium.  Everybody was trying to get
J. TRAVERSO
7
in and get set up.  The field comm. truck arrived from
the shops because it was on its way there anyway.
          I got into the truck and I started printing a
history of what was going on.  I started operating the
radios.  Then Billy was there, because he had seen what
happened, he lives by Jersey.  He saw what happened, he
came in.  I said look I have to go get cleaned up.  I
got to sit down and for the rest of the day I just
helped them a little bit.  That night at 10 o'clock we
found out that Richie had ended up in Jersey because he
jumped on a ferry, or he was placed on a ferry, I think
by the water when everybody started running.  We found
out he was okay.
          That night, myself and Danny, walked across
the Brooklyn Bridge back to quarters here.  Just to
unwind a bit.  That's basically what happened.  I
really didn't -- I saw units coming, but faces.  I was
in the back of the van working the radio.  I was
writing things down and worrying about everything
getting set up.  I had no idea.  I thought it was an
accident.  You know, a regular accidental plane crash
at first.  Then when they said the second one was hit
and then the Pentagon.  Then we realized, so it was a
little unnerving.
J. TRAVERSO
8
     Q.   Sure.  Anything else you can think of that
you might have left out?
     A.   No, we just all were standing in front of
quarters and seeing smoke.  We couldn't see the World
Trade Centers because there is a building in the way.
We thought it was a ship, maybe, on fire or a belching
something from -- they just started a diesel or
something.  We had no clue what it was until they
dropped the second alarm.
     Q.   They told you on the way in it was a plane
that crashed into?
     A.   We were aware of it once we started
responding.  Also I left one thing out.  When we first
arrived on West Street I backed in.  It was a fifth
alarm at that time.  I was told by the command post to
have Manhattan transmit an additional separate fifth
alarm.  So I transmitted that.  I had them transmit
that.  Then I got the report of the people trapped and
handed it to Richie, and then the building came down.
That's about it.
          MR. McCOURT:  Okay.  The time is 9:15.  That
     concludes this interview.  Thank you.
File No. 9110067
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
     FIREFIGHTER VINCENT BUONOCORE
   Interview Date:  October 12, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
                  V. BUONOCORE                  2
          MR. CASTORINA:  This is Ron Castorina
     conducting an interview with Vincent
     Buonocore, firefighter two, assigned to
     Engine 278.  The time now is 1325 hours.
     Conducting the interview with me is --
          MR. McCOURT:  Tom McCourt.
          MR. CASTORINA:  And your name, sir?
          FIREFIGHTER BUONOCORE:  Firefighter
     Vincent Buonocore, grade two.  I had the
     nozzle that day, assigned to 278.
          MR. CASTORINA:  The day of September
     11th?
          FIREFIGHTER BUONOCORE:  Yes.
     Q.   Can you tell me what your assignment
was for that day and whatever you can remember?
     A.   Yeah.  I was assigned the nozzle that
day.  I remember walking into the kitchen and
seeing one of the twin towers, smoke bellowing
out of the upper floors.  They said there was an
airplane crash.  I said to myself, it was such a
beautiful day, I said, how the hell could someone
not see that and avoid the twin towers.
          A few minutes later I was watching the
TV, and I saw the airplane coming from the right
                  V. BUONOCORE                  3
side of the television screen, and one second
later I saw the big explosion.  All the guys were
in the kitchen, and everybody was going, "Oh."
Everybody was screaming.
          There were two guys outside,
Firefighter Jackson and Firefighter Zechewytz.
They were outside looking at the sky.
Firefighter Jackson said, "Wow, look at this
airplane.  It's flying so low."  Maybe a minute
after that they heard us screaming in the
kitchen.  They ran back, and sure enough, that
was probably the plane that crashed into the twin
towers.
          Once that second plane hit, pretty much
I knew we were going.  I remember calling my
wife, just letting her know that I was going to
the twin towers, because I knew at that point it
was terrorism.  I didn't know the outcome of the
day for anybody, so I just wanted to call my wife
anyway just to let her know.
          We responded.  I remember going down
Fourth Avenue, heading towards the Brooklyn
Battery Tunnel, and I remember seeing papers
flying in the air.  Pretty much we went onto
                  V. BUONOCORE                  4
Third Avenue.  We were lining up on the Brooklyn
side of the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel, waiting for
orders from I guess the dispatcher or whatever.
          We were hanging out there for about 15
minutes.  I was talking to Firefighter Zechewytz.
The next thing you know, I saw what I imagine the
south tower coming down.  Right then and there I
pretty much knew it was going to be devastating
to the department and to a lot of people.
          At that point pretty much we started
gathering up -- we lined up then.  We took the
rig from there, and we were going over the
Brooklyn Bridge.  We stopped on the bridge for
about five or ten minutes, and we were watching
all the people coming off from the Manhattan
side, thousands of people, walking calmly.
Pretty much a few minutes after that we went into
Manhattan.
          I was pretty happy we didn't go through
the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel because the only
thing that was running through my mind is they're
going to hit the tunnel.  I didn't want to get
caught in there.  I was just happy we took the
bridge, not knowing that, who knows, if another
                  V. BUONOCORE                  5
airplane was going to be coming crashing into the
bridge or what.
          We ended up going into Manhattan.  It
was just ash all over the place.  I don't
remember which street exactly we were on.  Pretty
much we parked our rig, and we went to the
command center.  We stood there for a little
while waiting for orders.
     Q.   Where were you when the second building
collapsed?
     A.   We were, I believe, on --
     Q.   You were in Manhattan at that time?
     A.   Yeah, we were in Manhattan.  Again, we
were by the command center, waiting for
instructions.
     Q.   So you were in the staging area?
     A.   We were in the staging area.  Then I
remember just seeing a whole bunch of dust going
up again in smoke, not realizing that that was
the second tower coming down.
          That's the recollections that I have.
     Q.   Anything you want to add?
     A.   Basically it was a tragic day for our
nation and our department, and hopefully
                  V. BUONOCORE                  6
something like this never goes on again.
     Q.   Okay.  Thank you.
          MR. CASTORINA:  The time now is 1330
     hours.  That concludes the interview.
'                                    File No. 9110068
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      Firefighter Richard VETLAND
 Interview Date:  October 12, 2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
VETLAND
          MR. CASTORINA:  I am here with
     Firefighter Richard VETLAND.  I am at Engine
     278.  The time now is 1310 hours.  Conducting
     the interview with me is?
          MR. MC COURT:  Tom McCourt.
          MR. CASTORINA:  And your name, sir?
     A.   Richard VETLAND, Engine 278.
     Q.   What is your rank?
     A.   Firefighter first grade.
     Q.   What was your assignment on September 11,
2001?
     A.   I was the chauffeur.
     Q.   Of?
     A.   The night tour and the day tour.
     Q.   Of 278?
     A.   Engine 278.
     Q.   Can you recall what happened that day, in
detail?
     A.   Yes.  I actually watched it on TV.  The
Chief went first.
     Q.   Which Chief was that?
     A.   Ed Henry.  Actually, Roger Jackson was
driving him, but John Picarello came in early and
2
3
                      VETLAND
took the run in.  They went before nine.  Then the
rest of the us in the Engine we just had a feeling
we were going.  We watched it on TV and then watched
the second plane hit and knew we were going.  We I
fueled the rig up, then we went.
               We went down Fourth Avenue, to Third
Avenue, over the bridge, then they stopped us at the
tunnel and there was a staging area at the tunnel.
Then when the first building came down we had a
clear looking right at us.
     Q.   You were at the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel?
     A.   We were at the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel.
     Q.   You didn't get into Manhattan through the
tunnel?
     A.   They stopped us there because 228 had said
they thought a bomb went off in the tunnel actually.
     Q.   And they were in the tunnel?
     A.   They were in the tunnel.  That was during
the first collapse, because we seen it.  They
stopped us before that just to slow everybody down,
I think.  And then once that came down, that's when
228 said they thought there was a bomb.  It was just
smoke.  But we were stopped before that.
     Then we went to --
4
Manhattan?  You went over the bridge?
     A.   Then we went over to the Brooklyn bridge.
We took the Brooklyn Bridge.  We were the first ones
over the Brooklyn Bridge from that staging area at
the tunnel.  Then we went over and parked on West
Street, on the wrong side of West Street, facing
towards everything.  Facing south on the east side,
facing the wrong way.
     Q.   Just put an X on the map where you were
parked on that day, Engine 278.
     A.   We were parked right here (indicating).
     Q.   Had the second building collapsed yet at
this point?
     A.   I don't know when it collapsed.  There was
a lot of dust, a lot of dust.  I don't know where we
were.
     Q.   Do you remember, were you directed
anywhere or --
     A.   From there they just put us in a staging
area.
     Q.   Do you know who put you in the staging
area?
     A.   No, that I don't know.  We were there
                 VETLAND
Q.   What route did you take to get into
5
                      VETLAND
maybe -- we were there maybe about 15, 20 minutes
and Father John came up and I talked to Father John.
I talked to another guy.  I know John Leanza from
122 truck.  He was -- I know him from when we were
kids and all he told me was "I hugged the columns
like they told us in PS 30 and he was hugging the
columns there and he said they lost I think two or
three guys that he were standing with.  He ran over
and hugged the column and he came out -- he came
walking out, Father John came walking out and just
everybody started to come out.  It was maybe 15, 20
minutes when people started walking, walking towards
us.
     So eventually -- actually we parked in and we
started to go in and then they grabbed us and pulled
us back.  We left our rig a lot closer than where
they made us go.  So I pulled in and I drove right
in up over here somewhere close and then they walked
us back to the staging area.  We basically unloaded
food and oranges and stuff all day and then we went
to Millennium later on.  That was later on in the
day.
     Q.   Anything else you want to add?
     A.   I can't think of anything.
6
                 VETLAND
Q.   Okay.  Fine.
     MR. CASTORINA:  That concludes this
interview.  The time is 1315 hours.
File No. 9110069
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        CAPTAIN JOHN HENRICKSEN
   Interview Date:  October 11, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
                 J. HENRICKSEN                  2
          MR. CASTORINA:  We're at Engine 278.
     I'm Ron Castorina, conducting an interview.
          Your name, Tom?
          MR. McCOURT:  Tom McCourt.
          CAPTAIN HENRICKSEN:  Captain John
     Henricksen.
          MR. CASTORINA:  Where are you assigned?
          CAPTAIN HENRICKSEN:  I'm assigned to
Engine 278.
     Q.   Can you tell me on September 11th,
2001, that day what your assignment was and the
details?
     A.   Yes, on that morning at 9:10 we were
assigned to report to the staging area at the
Brooklyn Tunnel, on the Brooklyn side of the
Brooklyn Tunnel.  We were over there having
responded to that location and then we waited for
assignment over there.
          As we were sitting there waiting for
assignment, we observed the first tower collapse.
At that time we had just previous to that sent
one unit through the tunnel, and we were going to
be the next unit to go through.  As the first
unit went through, they gave an urgent and no
                 J. HENRICKSEN                  3
units could go through the tunnel at that time.
     Q.   Do you know what that unit was?
     A.   I believe it was 228.
     Q.   228?
     A.   Yeah.
          So from there since we could no longer
go through the tunnel, we were redirected to go
over the Brooklyn Bridge.  Then from the Brooklyn
Bridge we were directed into Manhattan.  We went
to the staging area which was located on West
Street opposite the Stuyvesant High School.  I
don't know what street that is, but that's where
we went to.
          I don't know at what point the second
tower came down.  I do believe we were in
Manhattan at that time, but we were nowhere near
the Trade Center.
     Q.   Who directed you to go to the staging
area; do you remember?
     A.   That I don't recall.  It was two
battalions that were on the same ticket as us,
and that's what was giving us the orders.  I
can't recall at the time that it was.
     Q.   So how close did you get to the
                 J. HENRICKSEN                  4
incident and at what point did you get there?
     A.   We didn't get into the incident until
after the second tower had collapsed.  Then from
there we were directed to the Millennium Hotel.
We were in the Millennium for a cautionary line
because they were afraid of the fire extending to
that building.
          Then at one point they chased us out of
there for fear of collapse of a building; I
believe it was Seven World Trade.  So they got us
out of there because they didn't know which way
that building was going to collapse.
          When Seven World Trade did collapse, we
were in the Woolworth Building.  You couldn't
even see.  It was unbelievable.  You couldn't
even see your hand in front of your face.  That's
how much dust and debris was flying around.
     Q.   At any point were you or any of your
guys or operation personnel injured?
A. No, no.
     Q.   You don't remember what corner you were
on on West Street?  You don't remember the
location?  Was it by Stuyvesant?
     A.   It was by Stuyvesant.
                 J. HENRICKSEN                  5
     Q.   Would the map help you, or you just
don't remember?
     A.   I don't remember what street Stuyvesant
High School is on.  Do you know where Stuyvesant
High School is?
          We were standing on I guess the north
side of West Street, opposite Stuyvesant High
School.
     Q.   Were there still civilians being
evacuated from the area while you were there or
they weren't going near your location?
     A.   They weren't going near our location,
but you could see them all being evacuated over
the Brooklyn Bridge.  There was no traffic
whatsoever coming over the Brooklyn Bridge other
than civilians who had taken over the whole
bridge.  The walkways and the road ways in both
directions were just civilians pouring over.
     Q.   How were they acting?  Orderly or was
it panicky?
     A.   Yes, surprisingly it was pretty
orderly.  You could see they were involved in the
collapse because they came completely covered
with debris, you know, white all over them.  It
                 J. HENRICKSEN                  6
was a sight to see.
     Q.   Is there anything else you recall or
you want to add?
     A.   No, there's nothing I can think of.
     Q.   So you were just about there right
after the second collapse?
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   Okay.  Thank you, Captain.
     A.   I wish I could tell you more.
          MR. CASTORINA:  The time is 1305.  This
     concludes the interview.  The interview
     started at 1300 hours.
File No. 9110070
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
          LIEUTENANT ROY DAVID
   Interview Date:  October 12, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
R. DAVID 2
          MS. BASTEDENBECK:  Today's date is
     October 12th, 2001.  The time is now 8:20
     a.m.  my name is Christine Bastedenbeck from
     the New York City Fire Department.  I'm
     conducting an interview this morning with
     the following individual.
          Please state your name.
          LIEUTENANT DAVID:  Lieutenant Roy
     David, emergency medical service.
          MS. BASTEDENBECK:  Where are you
     assigned?
          LIEUTENANT DAVID:  Battalion 8,
     Manhattan south.
          MS. BASTEDENBECK:  Also present for the
     interview is --
          MR. ECCLESTON:  Christopher Eccleston
     of the New York City Fire Department.
     Q.   Lieutenant David, can you tell us about
the events of September 11th, 2001, that morning.
     A.   September 11th, 2001, at approximately
8:50 in the morning I was assigned to the
academy, the second week of an EMT refresher
course.
          While on a break just in front of the
R. DAVID 3
academy, I was informed of an airplane crash into
the World Trade Center.  Subsequently this event
was confirmed, and we were informed that we would
be mobilized to the location.
          There was a delay in obtaining vehicles
for us to leave in.  However, during that time
some members, both of the ALS refresher and of
the BLS refresher, were placed in ambulances,
equipped and dispatched to the location.  We then
were placed aboard one Fire Department bus and
two Transit Authority buses and in convoy, led by
Chief McFarland, we responded into Manhattan.
          Upon arrival in Manhattan, we were
prestaged at a total of three locations prior to
getting into the work area.  The first one was
the Pearl Street side of One Police Plaza.  We
stayed there approximately 35 minutes.  The
second one was Broadway just north of Chambers
Street, half a block south of 26 Federal Plaza.
Then we wound up at Church and Worth.  There was
some concerns about the 26th Federal Plaza being
a potential hot spot, so we moved from there over
to Church and Worth.  That's an approximate.  But
it was on Church in the vicinity of Worth.
.
R. DAVID 4
          Then we were brought into the -- excuse
me.  I have to request the name of that high
school, the one --
     Q.   Stuyvesant.
     A.   Stuyvesant High School, which is just
to the west of West Street approximately two
blocks north of the site.
          At that point all the members that were
on board the three buses were directed into the
high school to assist there and be dispatched to
other locations, and I was directed by an unknown
person at this time to report to the command post
to Chief Kowalczyk.
          Upon arrival at the command post, Chief
Kowalczyk directed me over to 225 Broadway.
There in command of the medical treatment area,
which included doctors and nurses, was Chief
Charles Wells.  I was eventually brought back to
the command post by Charles Wells and then
redispatched back to that location.
          When I was sent back to the location
the second time, I was armed with a list of units
that were to be released from the scene and
redeployed back into 911 due to the high call
volume.
R. DAVID 5
          While I was in the process of releasing
those units and working it out with Captain Race
who was left in charge of the medical operation,
I was approached by a clergyman from the Federal
Bureau of Investigation who informed me that Fire
Department chaplain Father Mychal Judge had
expired and was in the Church and was in need of
transport.
          I quickly grabbed one of the units that
I had that I was in the process of releasing and
directed them to pick up and move Father Judge.
When that was accomplished, I remained at the
medical post assisting and also assisting with
the move.  We transferred the operation from the
225 Broadway to the lobby of Pace University.
          At Pace University we had -- we set
up -- I'm sorry, we set up in that lobby of that
building, the lobby and the actual whole first
floor.  There was a threat of collapse of
building number seven, so 225, we had to evacuate
it.
          While operating at Pace University in
the lobby of the building, building number seven
R. DAVID 6
or tower seven did in fact collapse and create a
hazard on our side.  But luckily we didn't lose
anybody.  No one was injured as a result of it,
and we continued the operation.
          I stayed there until approximately
11:00 at night, at which point I was brought back
to the command post and just assisted with some
miscellaneous tasks.  I probably left the scene
at 1:30, and I secured a ride out of there with
Chief James Martin.
     Q.   Can you just give me a little more
detail when you approached about Father Judge?
     A.   I was approached by, again, an unknown
priest from the Federal Bureau of Investigation,
since that was the jacket he was wearing, and he
stated to me that Father Judge had expired
approximately two hours ago.
          When I went into the Church, in fact he
had been pronounced by Dr. Kelly sometime
earlier.  At this point they just wanted to
remove him up to his perish so that I guess he
could be prepared for the next step.
          He appeared to have an injury, a heavy
bleeding injury to the left side of the rear of
R. DAVID 7
his head, and it was obvious that he was also
covered in debris, as his face and the rest of
his body was covered with just I guess crushed
mortar and brick matter.
     Q.   So you picked him up from what church?
     A.   I don't know the name of the Church.
It's on -- I'd have to refer to the map.
     Q.   I'm not sure if that map covers
everything.
     A.   Yeah, let me just see.  Let me orient
myself here.  It was St. Paul -- no.  St. Peter's
Church, which was on Barclay Street between
Church and Broadway.
     Q.   So you assigned a unit there to --
     A.   Well, there were several units there
that were operating supporting the medical unit
for transport.  As they were being released, this
is the time that I was approached by this priest
and asked for help.
          A member from my command by the name of
Carpenter was on one of the units I believe like
an 8 Mary or something, perhaps an extra unit
that had been running for the day.  He was on
that unit, and he was the one that did the
R. DAVID 8
removal.  I can't recall who his partner was at
the time.
     Q.   And then they removed Father Judge to
where?
     A.   They removed Father Judge to his
parish, which is located on 31st Street.  It's
just opposite a fire station, I believe.
     Q.   Engine Company 1?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   That's where they left his body?
     A.   Yes.  They took him there, and I
believe that's where they left him.
     Q.   Do you have any other comments you'd
like to make at this time regarding the events
that morning?  Anything you say is fine.
     A.   Okay.  My only concern was that -- and
again this is not a bad mark against anyone.  But
knowing that at any time the personnel in the
academy can be deployed, I think that the
department should provide buses or some other
type of mass people mover vehicles there,
deadlined, ready to be moved.  Because the only
thing that we had that we could depend on was a
few ambulances, and it just wasn't enough to move
R. DAVID 9
60, 70 people from the academy.
     Q.   That's it?  Okay.
          MS. BASTEDENBECK:  This concludes our
     interview with Lieutenant Roy David.  We
     thank you very much for your comments.  The
     time now is 831 hours.
File No. 9110071
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
            EMT FAISEL ABED
   Interview Date:  October 12, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
F. ABED
2
          MR. ECCLESTON:  Today's date is October 12,
     2001.  The time is 747 hours.  This is Christopher
     Eccleston of the New York City Fire Department.
     I'm conducting an interview with the following
     individual.
     Q.   Please state your name, rank, title, assigned
command area of the Fire Department of the City of New
York regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
     A.   My name is Faisel Abed.  I'm an EMT assigned
to Battalion 8 and my unit is 08 David 2.
     Q.   Also present in the room is --
     A.   Christine Bastedenbeck of the New York City
Fire Department.
     Q.   Were you assigned to the World Trade Center
disaster on September 11, 2001?
     A.   Originally, basically we weren't assigned,
but we heard so much commotion over the radio, we
decided, you know, we asked Central, send us and we
went even as they dispatched us to the World Center.
     Q.   Who were you working with that day?
     A.   Charles Beshett.
     Q.   So they assigned you to the World Trade
Center?
     A.   Yes, I mean there was so much noise when the
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3
first call came over, everybody just went like
ballistic over the radio.  Whoever was there.  There
was 01 Adam that was like the under the building at
that time and then there were a couple of other units
that said we will go, we will go.  We said we will take
you.  It sounded legit.  It did sound legit, but in the
back of our of minds, we thought maybe it's one of the
generators that blew up, something electrical,
something mechanical.  It's just such a tall building,
things happen, you know.
          So we asked Central to send us the job and we
are driving down 34 Street and we get to 23 Street and
you see tower one.  It's like oh, shit, oh, god.  Look
at this.  The first thing that comes to your mind is
oh, it's an act of god, it's a terrible tragedy.  I
mean you think you know -- you look at it and say --
it's not the first time a plane hit a building.  You
had the Empire State Building.  My parents told me back
in 1945 when a big bomber hit the building, so it's an
accident, god, it's a tragic accident.
          But then we are driving and now we are like,
we are about a half mile out, halfway from the World
Trade Center and we see this shiny object coming and me
and my partner are going, what the hell, what's wrong
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4
with that plane.  What is wrong with that plane.  There
is something not right with that plane.  And he just --
the tower blew.
          So my partner said stop the freaking bus,
stop the freaking bus.  The building's going to fall.
The building's going to fall on us.  It was coming --
the force -- you see like the -- shit, the whole top of
the building go off and just the junk that was coming
out of there and the explosion was -- I thought it was
Hollywood.  I thought this was an act.  I said this
can't be happening.  In New York.  It's not happening.
          I slowed it down.  He got scared and I got
scared so we kind of just slowed down a bit, you know,
and he says listen, we really can't go in there.  There
is too much coming off the building.  You could see
stuff flying out of the building and people way before
you get there.  So we do it.  We go, we go.  We finally
go to Vesey and West.  Turned there.
          There was a couple of other units there.
They set the staging area up.  We had about 15, 20
people coming out of the building and there were nurses
from, they're from AMEX.  I think they are from the
American Express building.  A couple of their nurses.
They were bringing patients out.  They were sitting
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5
down right on the sidewalk.  Some were badly burned,
some were injured.  Some were just in shock.  Basically
we are there.  We are treating some.
     Q.   Could you indicate where you parked your
vehicle.
     A.   Here is north, we are right here.  I would
say we are right here.  Exactly right here.  We are
right here.
     Q.   Just make a number 1 there.
     A.   Okay.  We were right here.  West and Vesey
and the water is right here and you can't go past the
water.
     Q.   Okay, what vehicle were you in?
     A.   350.
     Q.   350?
     A.   350.
          So what happened at that point we get out.
We get out our stuff, we are just starting to take care
of the patients.  We are tagging them red, yellow,
whatever color might be at that situation at that
time.  We were there on the scene maybe -- I know the
second plane hit a little bit after nine, if I'm
correct.  If I remember.  We got our stuff out.  We
started triaging the patients.  We stayed right there.
F. ABED
6
I mean we didn't go any further because of the fact
that it was just a dangerous situation.
          We stayed there, people were coming out and
we triaged them.  We were there, I would say
approximately maybe an hour.  I know it started -- I
think that building starting coming down around 10
o'clock or something like that.  I don't exactly
remember what time, but it was about that time the
first tower came down.
     Q.   We have the time.
     A.   Yes, I don't remember exactly, but I know it
did come down, the first building, right.  9:55.  About
an hour from when we were first there.  With the grace
of god we had gotten all the people out of there.  We
had gotten all the patients out of there.  They were
transported and everything.
          Next thing you know, you hear another -- they
had said there were jets out there that day.  They were
out there.  I started to hear another jet, right, it
sounded like a flush of a jet.  What it was was
actually the building coming down.  I didn't actually
see the building coming down but you heard it.  Why I
didn't see it, I don't know.  We were just so busy
concentrating on what we are doing.  You just heard
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7
this thrushing, thrushing noise like a rocket.  I
thought the building was under attack again.
          You just start seeing this smoke coming
down.  We just took off.  We went north.  We actually
-- sorry, we went west.  We went towards the river.
All right.  Then we just went towards the river and
went up north a little bit behind the building.  That
was after the first one went down.
     Q.   Were you still with your partner at that
time?
     A.   No.  At that time, forget it, we were gone.
We separated.  It was just one of those things.  We
separated.  I was looking for him.  He was looking for
me.  I asked all around if -- someone told me he saw
him.  He was okay.  I heard at one point that he went
to the hospital with another co-worker of mine, but
that wasn't true.
          We were there, I would say for maybe another
20 minutes, half an hour or so, and then the second
building came down, so we had to run even more
further.  We ran up north further, and then what
happened we ran into the school.  Actually the school
was coming out, Stuyvesant High School, the kids
started coming out.  They didn't have a clue what was
F. ABED
8
going on.
          So we have like 3, 4,000 kids coming out of
the school, not realizing the magnitude of what's going
on.  So we are starting to walk.  Now it's coming down
and we are starting to walk, but the school is funny,
the school is like a break wall for the smoke that is
coming from the building, so when the kids got past one
end of the school they started panicking.  So we all
started getting nervous, because the only place else to
go was the Hudson River.  I'm a good swimmer, but the
Hudson River?
          So I started telling the kids, everybody,
just calm down, everybody keep on walking.  Keep on
walking, keep on walking.  We finally got out to West
Street and went just go all the way up till we stayed
at the -- what's the place up there.
     Q.   Chelsea Pier?
     A.   Yes, Chelsea Piers.  After that, then there
was a gas leak.  There was another explosion, the gas
went.  At that point it was just total helplessness.
We felt terrible.  We felt bad.
     Q.   Where your vehicle was left --
     A.   The vehicle was left right there.  It was
left right there at West and Vesey Street.  Just left
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9
it there, left everything.  Just left everything.  They
tell you if running, don't look back.  I was running
looking back, making sure that cloud was coming,
because it was coming.  It was a horrific cloud.
          It was like this monster coming out of the
sky that was going to swallow you up.  Then I noticed
people jumping off the building.  I caught this one guy
over there.  My eye caught him.  It was just one of
those things.  My eye caught him.  I was watching.
          That's pretty much it.
     Q.   Once you got to the Chelsea Piers, and they
had you staged there --
     A.   Well, I tell you, everybody -- it was so
-- at that point, at that point, I think right after
the first building collapsed, people were just walking
around.  They didn't know what to do.  Everybody was
just walking around.  I was walking around like I lost
my little puppy.  I was definitely just total shaken.
Forget it.
          It got more organized at one point.  At one
point it started to get organized.  I think after the
second building went down, it finally started to get
organized.  Started getting all the ambulances lined up
on West Street.  It just really started to get
F. ABED
10
organized, but like I said, there wasn't really much
for us to do.  You had 400 ambulances there, just
idling their engines.  Not really doing anything.  It
was a shame.
          If you ask me, can we ever prepare ourselves
for something like this, not this magnitude.  Not this
magnitude, no.  This was something else way beyond our
comprehension and something that we, you know, can
never handle again.  It's impossible.  It really is.
As much training as we get, MCIs and things like that
every year, I never want to see this again.  I really
don't.
          I'm staged by the Empire State Building, so
every time I stage by the Empire State Building, I'm
like, I'm looking up all the time now.  I mean I'm just
like, oh.  My partner is saying what are you looking
at?  Terrible terrible thing, really was.
     Q.   Did you eventually get to finding your
partner?
     A.   Thank god, yes.  We hugged each other.  We
gave a big hug, yes, we found each other.
     Q.   How long were you separated?
     A.   Almost until -- Jesus, almost until -- it had
to be afternoon, one o'clock, 1:30, 2:00.  I finally
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11
found him down around the command center.  What
happened was that I had gotten pulled off.  I had a
Chief come pick me up and drive me to the hospital,
because our Captain was hurt, so he saw me walking up
the street and he says do you have a unit?  I said no,
he says hop in with me and he took me up to the
hospital.
     Q.   Who was your Captain?
     A.   Captain Stone.
     Q.   Okay.  He had gotten hurt on the scene?
     A.   Apparently.  Now that I've opened my mouth,
I'm sorry, but he actually escaped.  He was in the
building.  He almost -- from what I know, he almost --
escaped with his life just about.  He really did.  You
didn't hear this from me, please.  I'm afraid I'm
opening a can of worms.
     Q.   No, you are not, no.
     A.   He almost escaped with his life.  He really
did.  He just missed it.  The building almost fell on
him.
     Q.   Thank goodness he got out.
     A.   Yes, he got out.  So I was in the command car
with him.  He drove me up to Bellevue and then I was
told to take the command car and I went back downtown
F. ABED
12
to the command center.  That was pretty much it.
     Q.   Is there anything else you would like to add
to this regarding the events from the time the plane
hit until about 12 noon?
     A.   It was just mass chaos.  That's all I could
say.  It was just mass chaos.  I think everybody was
just saying, you know, there really isn't much we can
do when the buildings went down and that we just got to
look out for ourselves and take care of ourselves.
That's basically what it was.  We were just taking care
of ourselves.  We had no choice.
          If we get hurt, who are we going to help.  It
was just basically be safe, keep yourself, keep your
distance, keep your ears open, keep your radios open to
see what was going on.  That's pretty much the whole
thing in a nutshell.
          MR. ECCLESTON:  Thank you very much for
     conducting this interview with me.  This interview
     is concluded at 758 hours.  The counter on the
     cassette recorder is 194.
File No. 9110072
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT JAMES MCKINLEY
Interview Date: October 21, 2001
J. MCKINLEY
CHRISTOPHER ECCLESTON: It’s October 12, 2001. The time is 6:56 and this is Christopher Eccleston of the Fire Department of the City of New York. I am conducting an interview with the following individual...please state your name, rank, title, assigned command area of the Fire Department of the City of New York regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
JAMES MCKINLEY: My names is James McKinley, EMTD. I work out of Battalion 8, my shield is 5501.
CHRISTOPHER ECCLESTON: Also present at the interview is...
CHRISTINE BASTEDENBECK: Christine Bastedenbeck from the New York City Fire Department.
Q: James, were you assigned to the World Trade Center disaster of September 11, 2001?
A: Yes.
Q: Can you tell me about the events that happened that day?
A: Basically I was just getting off duty when news came in, the MERV driver
came in and said there’s a plane into the World Trade Center. He took off in a hurry, I was about to go home, and I convinced my lieutenant to let me go to the MCI. So I went, and after watching it on the TV for maybe 2, 3 minutes, I was about to put my stuff in my locker and I decided that I had to go to this thing. I went down and I grabbed Smitty, who was working cleaning the vehicles. We stocked the vehicle, 169, with the lieutenant’s permission, and we went to the MCI. As we were going down the
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J. MCKINLEY
FDR, I remember looking over and just seeing this huge hole in the World Trade Center.
As we’re going down, we went down the FDR, as we were coming across...I wasn’t driving, I was teching. I remember coming up on the Trade Center, I don’t know when the plane went into the building or how long it was there, but it was like, I was amazed to see that PD were already escorting people over the Brooklyn Bridge and to Chinatown. They were just clearing the whole area, and having people migrate towards Chinatown and over the bridge. So we came out of the FDR, we came across Vessey Street, and we were told by the radio to go to staging on West and Vessey. As we’re going past we met command. I don’t remember who it was. I remember seeing one, Gumbo, who was a lieutenant. I’m not sure what he is now.
Q: Chief?
A: Chief Gumbo, okay. So we parked out vehicles on Vessey street, I guess on the west side of the West Side Highway.
Q: Can you just mark on the map with a number 1 where you parked your vehicle? Approximately, it doesn’t have to be exact.
A: There was like 15, 20 vehicles there already, and we just joined in the group. So I would guess about here.
Q: What was the vehicle number you were in?
A: 169. Then we were just waiting for orders from officers on the scene about what to do, and they told us just hang tight. My partner is telling me that they want us to stay by our vehicles, in case they find something to do. I wasn’t communicating with the officers, my partner was. I was just standing by the vehicle watching the
3
J. MCKINLEY
firemen do their stuff, watching the PD do their stuff. That’s basically about it, I was just
taking in the sight of the whole thing. Debris falling from the buildings, smoke, basically -----mayby this was a bad idea. Keep going?
Q: Keep going, you’re doing fine. You’re doing perfect.
A: As I was standing there watching this whole thing unfold, it was like I couldn’t believe that some people were actually jumping from the building. Then as I looked up, I saw this helicopter hovering from in front of one of the buildings, it was the first one that was hit. Then all of a sudden I heard this huge explosion, I didn’t know what it was cause nobody was telling me anything. I didn’t know until we were called back to Chambers and something, Chambers and West Street, that it might have been a terrorist attack. I was this close to it, and I didn’t know what was going on. After that I heard this huge explosion, I thought it was a boiler exploding or something. Next thing you know this huge cloud of smoke is coming at us, so we’re running. Everyone is, firemen, PD, everyone is running away from the World Trade Center, up Vessey Street. This is North End, we was running around Vessey and around North end to get away from the first smoke. After the first building, I guess, I didn’t know at the time that the building fell. After the smoke cleared, I went back, I was helping some people that were covered in dust and stuff like that. We set up treatment right on Vessey and North End, over here. As I was getting stuff to go into the treatment area, BP cuff, water, O-2, stuff like that, I was instructed to go back and treat patients. As I was picking up a patient on Vessey, on the east side of the West Side Highway and Vessey, I didn’t know what was
4
J. MCKINLEY
going on. I was just trying to treat patients. I put a fireman on a stretcher, I was leading
him back to the treatment area. As I was getting to the treatment area, everyone is leaving the treatment area. I was like where is everybody going? They said the other building is leaning, we’re getting out of here. We’re moving the treatment area. So we put the fireman in an ambulance and they took off. We was trying to clear out the treatment area, and as we’re clearing the treatment area, I hear this huge noise. Someone told me the building is exploding, I couldn’t believe it. So we started moving the treatment area back even further. After the second one fell, we started running up...where is it? I’m not sure what these buildings represent, but we ended up down by the water, the cloud pushed us all the way to the water. And that’s basically, after that it was like, we went back to survey the damage and we was trying to get our vehicles out of the rubble. Like after the first building fell, we were trying to recover, we were trying to move the vehicles off of Vessey Street and on to North End Avenue. I’m like moving vehicles, I’m helping people, we have this one fireman that had his arm --- it was deformed, it was broken and everything. I helped splint it. I tried to move four or five vehicles before I set up staging over near the treatment area. After we moved, we moved the treatment area like three times. We moved it around here. Then after the first one fell we tried to get back in there. Then the second one was falling, I don’t know. After the first one fell, as I went back, I was just looking at it. There were vehicles on fire, there were ambulances too close to fire trucks burning, gas tanks were popping. The parking lot over here where we parked our vehicles, cars in the parking lot were on fire.
5
J. MCKINLEY Q: That was the parking lot over here?
A: I think this was a parking lot over here. I think this was a parking lot too, cause as we were running when the second building....this fireman was in front of us and we ran into almost like a dead end. As we’re running behind him, he’s like, “this way”. I think he was a fireman or a police man, if we had followed him, we would have wound up in a dead end, and we probably would have got smoke in our lungs so we noticed that going in here would be a dead end, we have to go down this way. After the first one fell I was running up Vessey, then I walked back down Vessey towards West Street where all the fire engines were. They were covered in debris and they’re smoldering. I just couldn’t believe it. What amazed me too was things you don’t even take notice of. Like, the street was littered with paperwork that was in the office building. I can’t remember anymore, you know.
Q: It’s ok, you’re doing a perfect job. Just keep going with what you’re doing.
A: After the first one fell, I was trying to sort through everything, going around helping people, seeing what we could do. Once I got too close to a vehicle that was smoking, it started to pop, I was afraid that the gas tank would explode. Everyone was like watch your back, watch your back, the firemen were trying to put out the fire. I keep reading in the paper now that it was at this point that they was trying to get the guys out of the other building that hasn’t fallen yet. I can just imagine what it must have been like running down the stairs in the World Trade Center. As I was saying before, I didn’t
6
J. MCKINLEY
know what was going on. I didn’t even know that the building had fallen. Maybe it was
the overtime or the fact that I had worked all night, I was tired or whatever. But as we cleared the second building, our dispatcher kept telling us after the second one fell, told us to drop back to Chambers and West Side Highway. We had to go back to our vehicles that we had abandoned running from the building that had fallen. We thought it was gonna fall on the side, so I was running looking for the shadow of the building, hoping that it wasn’t falling my way. If it was falling my way, I would want to know because I don’t want to stop running to look back to find out which way it was falling. I had to find out a way to see if it was falling this way, if it was falling on me. For some reason it fell like this. So as we ran, we came back to move all the vehicles, get all the stuff out. I was trying to fall back to Chambers and West Side Highway. Then, I met my partner, we had lost each other when the building side collapsed. He was telling me, as I’m driving the vehicle up the West Side Highway, all of a sudden, there’s my partner standing in the road there. I’m like, ah, there he is. I’m not sure if he got the order before I did, cause I was told to drop back to Chambers and West Side Highway. So, I parked the vehicle up there, and I went back, and we’re standing. He’s like, he told me that the guy, the terrorist?
Q: Osama Bin Laden?
A: Yeah. He’s like, he said he was gonna get the World Trade Center. So I’m like, what are you talking about? He said, this is a terrorist attack. I’m like what? Then all of a sudden, he told me that something was happening in Washington too. Then
7
J. MCKINLEY
he told me that they shot down another one. They said that the Air Force shot one down
in Pennsylvania. But they later found out that they had a struggle. At this point, something happened. I think we heard some explosions or something, so the dispatcher starts telling us to go up to 23rd street and Chelsea Piers. My partner’s like maybe it’s gas or something, not just explosive gas. Not like Con Edison gas but like sarin gas or something like that. So we’re packing everything up again, helping civilians who stopped to see this thing. So we pulled it up to 23rd Street and Chelsea Pier, that’s where we made staging. Basically after that, once we got to 23rd Street, we started to see other vehicles were coming already. They told us to fall back, they told everybody that was responding in to go to 23rd Street, cause there was ambulances there already. So we got in line, steadied our pulses, dusted ourselves off, kind of like composed ourselves. And then there were lieutenants going around asking for unit numbers. After that it was just a big rotating in, at least 75-100 vehicles down there on 23rd street, all over. As we stayed there hour after hour, they kept coming from all over the state. Upstate, Jersey, Pennsylvania, we seen them from all over the state. As you stayed there they kind of like, rotated you in. If you were up front and they needed ambulances down there, they would send them down. We lost everything down there. I lost my tech bag, the only thing I didn’t loose was the things that I had on me: my stethoscope, my helmet, my jacket. We even lost our stretcher. I don’t know if we put in for it or not, but basically that’s all it was. We got down there, we reported to the lieutenant. Then when the buildings started falling, we started falling back, the dispatcher telling us where to go. Chambers, then 23rd street.
8
J. MCKINLEY
Everything like, hold on a sec, they ran out of planes to drop on us. So everything started
becoming a little more predictable, Fire and PD performing their duties.
Q: Were you guys getting any news reports like what was happening? Like
all the planes had been grounded and that information?
A: I thought that was great too. They said over the radio that they ordered all
the planes across the country to just hit the ground. Anyone up after a certain time would be shot down. As you stand at 23rd street, we saw there was fighter jets cruising the air and stuff. The people at the 23rd street pier, they saw the ambulances there, they heard the news. They started bringing out bottled water for us, they started setting out tables. I don’t know if they have some kind of disaster plan that they followed, but they were very nice. They started bringing out water, bread, then sandwiches started appearing later on, fruit, apples. They made the whole facility at our disposal. I don’t know if that’s ---- but I was very amazed at the way they responded to the situation. I sat there for like 2 or 3 hours waiting to go back in, but they never sent me back there. I thought they would, but they wouldn’t. Even the hospitals were surprised at how few patients they got. Basically that’s about it.
Q: What time did you end up working till that day?
A: Well, we waited at 23rd Street pier, and then finally a lieutenant put us back in service, back into the 911 system. We did one call and we went to this Gouvaneer hospital, picked up a young lady. I call them young, but she was in like her 70s. She was being treated there, being transported back over to Bellvue Hospital. I
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J. MCKINLEY
didn’t know that you’re not supposed to take a stable patient not part of the incident,
Ground Zero, back to Bellvue. So I went to Bellvue, and all the doctors are expecting something from Ground Zero, and this lady’s from Gouvaneer. So the doctor’s like oh, okay, we’ll treat her anyway. Well, he didn’t say anyway, not that attitude. After that, I went back to the station, we had to re-start the vehicle before we brought this patient up. We went back in the 911 system and over to Bellvue. Then I went back, and I started work that night at about 10:00. I didn’t get off till the lieutenant...I worked something like twenty hours that night, until 6:00. Then I went upstairs to the locker room. I think I was tired but I wasn’t tired. I slept on a bench maybe an hour or an hour and a half. Went out, got something to eat, came back, washed up, put on my spare uniform and reported to duty about 12:00 that night. I don’t remember, what did I do when I came back on duty? I think they sent us over to the Chelsea Pier, with all the other ambulances. All those other ambulances from all over the state was just standing by there. I guess they came down, they wanted to go down to Ground Zero. They didn’t like sitting at 23rd street. They wanted to go down there, help do something. The bosses say you gotta sit here, you gotta sit here. That’s basically what happened. EMS went on 12 hours on and 12 off. I finally got home the next night, took a shower, felt good, fell asleep. That’s about it, unless you have any other questions.
Q: No, is there anything else you would like to add to this in regard to the events that happened prior to noon that day?
A: Before the planes hit? Something I observed?
10
J. MCKINLEY
Q: From when the planes hit until approximately noon. Is there anything in
there that you want to add other than what you’ve already told us? A: Um...like...?
Q: Just, if there’s something that you thought of that you forgot to tell us, that you want to tell us. If there’s nothing, that’s fine, you can, you know...that’s fine also.
A: I don’t know, basically that’s about it.
Q: Okay.
A: But what I found amazing was that nobody knew what was going on. I
didn’t know what was going on. I think that if we had known that these people would have done something like this, and that this is what it was...I usually watch the planes. They usually go from south to north, so when I heard the news about a plane hitting that side of the building, the plane would have had to been going from north to south. I thought it was an accident. That’s what I was working on, down on the scene. It was a horrible accident, this guy was maybe coming out of Newark, and to avoid another plane, he swerved and couldn’t get control of the plane. I think that if all of us would have some idea of what was transpiring, it would have been a lot different. Basically, I can’t say, I don’t know if that’s enough.
Q: Perfect. James, I thank you very much for conducting this interview with me. The time is 7:21. The counter on the recorder is 373 and this interview is concluded.
11
File No. 9110073
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT JOHN JAGODA
Interview Date: October 12, 2001
J. JAGODA
CHRISTOPHER ECCLESTON: Today’s date is October 12, 2001. The time is 0627 hours, and this is Christopher Eccleston of the Fire Department of the City of New York. I am conducting an interview with the following individual...please state your name, rank, title, assigned command area of the Fire Department of the City of New York regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
JOHN JAGODA: My name is John Jagoda, my badge number is 3378, I work out of Station 13, Battalion 8.
Q: John, were you assigned to the World Trade Center Disaster on September 11th, 2001?
A: Yeah. When I received a phone call at home, I asked if I should come in and I came in on my bicycle, met with another guy here and we went down there.
Q: En route to the assignment what did you see?
A: A lot of smoke, a lot of fire. People just scared in the streets, it was from a distance away, but it was very scary to see.
Q: When you arrived at the World Trade Center, where did you park your vehicle?
A: It was right around Broadway, I guess, and Vessey Street.
Q: Can you just indicate there on the map with a number 1 where you parked your vehicle?
A: Around here.
2
Q: Thank you. Did any civilians report anything to you when you first arrived?
A: Well, when we first arrived the building had just collapsed I guess just five minutes after we got there. It was pitch black for awhile, and as the smoke cleared, two men were dragging a female cop over to us who was having chest pain and couldn’t breathe. Another cop came over who had chest pains and couldn’t breathe. Then there was another gentleman who asked us to help him, his arm was almost off. I mean, from the elbow down it was just bones ripped apart. There were so many other people. We just did what we could handle. We handled those three patients and took them to the hospital.
Q: You said when you arrived the building was coming down, which tower was this that was coming down? Was it the first one or the second?
A: It was the first one. Because we had brought the patients over to Bellvue, and were on our way back when we heard that the second one had come down.
Q: Okay, what happened next?
A: Well, we got those people in the ambulance and brought them to Bellvue. It was just total disbelief, you know? Everybody at Bellvue was waiting for us. We basically just washed our hands then turned around and went back. We knew there was gonna be a lot of people down there.
Q: When you said you went to Bellvue, who were you talking about we?
A: Me and my partner, and the two officers, and the one male who’s arm was pretty badly mangled.
Q: Who was your partner?
3
A: Pete Rosie, he works up at Harlem. He lives not too far from here, so he rode his bicycle also.
Q: Okay, so you brought these patients to Bellvue, and then what happened next?
A: We cleaned up and then just went right back down.
Q: Okay.
A: When we got down there we were on the opposite side, I think near
Washington Street or Greenwich Street. As a matter of fact, we were on Church street, maybe Church and Park.
Q: your vehicle?
A: Q: A: Q: A:
over that were Q:
A:
mind to tell you the truth.
Q: I’m sure. When you arrived back at the scene, had the second tower come down already?
Okay, can you just indicate on the map with a number 2 where you parked
Right there.
Okay, what vehicle was that?
340.
340? Okay.
From there we met up with a group of other ambulances and supervisors there and just kind of waited. From there I can’t remember.
Okay, just to the best of your memory... Itwasjustabadday,itwasaterribleday. Ijustwanttoputitoutofmy
4
A: Yeah. It came down...as we were leaving here, heading back down we heard over the radio that the second tower had fallen. So we all went to let’s see...is this Washington here?
Q: This is Washington here.
A: This is West?
Q: This is West Street and this is West End
A: Yeah, we were all right here, by West Street here and we were down by
the West Side Highway and Barkley.
Q: You were staged there?
A: Yeah.
Q: Who were you staged with? You reported to a particular officer there?
A: I honestly don’t remember, there were so many people. I’m also a MERV
driver, so at one point I was working the MERV.
Q: Okay, was that shortly after you arrived back or was that later on in the
day?
A: That was later on in the day. Then I was on the MERV the next day. I
believe the next two days.
Q: Were there people there that you recognized as Fire Department
personnel, but they weren’t in their uniform?
A: NotthatIsaw. Isawoneguywhousedtoworkhereandhewasinthe
streets. He used to work with me up at Met. When I was there. I don’t know if he’s still on the job though. But he was in plain clothes. He came up to me and said hey, how are you doing?
5
Q: What was his name?
A: I don’t know, I left Met six years ago, so I don’t know. It was just a very frustrating few days. Then to find out on Thursday that I lost so many friends, that’s the hardest part, just being there and not being able to do anything. I just felt kind of helpless.
Q: Is there anything else you’d like to tell us about this day, the events up until about noon?
A: Until noon we just ran back and forth. We took three patients. Then the second trip three. Then we took one. I think we made like 5 or 6 trips to the hospital.
Q: The next trip you made, do you know how many patients you took?
A: The second trip? I think it was three, but I know at one point, there was one where we took a fireman who was having trouble breathing, he was complaining of a little discomfort. But he just kept saying it was just aggita. But we said now is the time to take you to the hospital. So we took him to Beth Isreal, as a matter of fact, (inaudible)
Q: All the trips you made to the hospital, you went to Beth Isreal? You went to Bellvue?
A: We went to Bellvue and Beth Isreal.
Q: So those were the only two hospitals?
A: Yeah.
Q: Okay, after you brought him to Beth Isreal, were you back on the scene
before noon? Approximately, was it after noon?
A: I think so, the time was just...time didn’t count. It was just back and forth
back and forth. Time didn’t mean anything. When we got to Beth Isreal, there was
6
someone there hosing down the ambulance because we had about two inches of soot on it. The time...I don’t know about time, it seemed like everything stopped, you know? It was just, I was more or less like a zombie focused on going taking, going taking, going taking, and not paying attention to anything else at all. Come to find out later on that I had so many friends in there. All these guys dying...
Q: Okay, is there anything else you would like to add to this interview?
Q: I thank you very much for speaking with me. This interview is concluded at 6:37.
7
File No. 9110074
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
            EMT ADOLPH SMITH
   Interview Date:  October 12, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
A. SMITH 2
          MR. ECCLESTON:  Today is October 12th,
     2001.  The time is 10:31 hours, and this is
     Christopher Eccleston of the New York City
     Fire Department.  I'm conducting an
     interview with the following individual.
          Please state your name and title.
          EMT SMITH:  Adolph Smith, EMT.
          MR. ECCLESTON:  And your assigned
     command area?
          EMT SMITH:  I'm assigned to Battalion
     8.
          MR. ECCLESTON:  Of the New York City
     Fire Department?
          EMT SMITH:  As a de-con specialist.
          MR. ECCLESTON:  Also in the room is --
          MS. BASTEDENBECK:  Chris Bastedenbeck
     from the New York City Fire Department.
     Q.   Mr. Smith, were you working on
September 11th, 2001?
A. Yes, I was.
     Q.   Were you assigned to the World Trade
Center disaster?
     A.   Yes, I was.
     Q.   Can you please tell me about the events
of that day?
          (Pause.)
A. SMITH 3
          MR. ECCLESTON:  The time is 10:33, and
     we are going to be continuing this
     interview.
     Q.   Mr. Smith, can you tell me about the
events of September 11th?
     A.   I was assigned to the World Trade
Center incident, and we arrived and were directed
to go to Vesey and West on the west side of West
Street.  We arrived in that area, and I don't
remember the captain's name.  He directed us to
park along (inaudible).  So we did.  So we backed
in to park.
          I just happened to look up, and what I
thought was debris coming down from the north
tower was people and bodies.
(Pause.)
          MR. ECCLESTON:  This interview is being
     concluded at 10:35 hours.  Mr. Smith is
     unable to continue with this interview.

File No. 9110075
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW LIEUTENANT RENE DAVILA
Interview Date: October 12, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins

R. DAVILA 2
MR. ECCLESTON: Today's date is October 12th, 2001. The time is 1220 hours. This is Christopher Eccleston of the Fire Department of New York City. I'm conducting an interview with the following individual.
Please state your name, rank, assigned command of the Fire Department of the City of New York.
LIEUTENANT DAVILA: Lieutenant Rene Davila, shield number 328, lieutenant in Battalion 04, Fire Department of New York.
MR. ECCLESTON: Also present in the room is.
MS. BASTEDENBECK: Christine Bastedenbeck of the New York City Fire Department.
Q. Lieutenant Davila, were you assigned
World Trade disaster on September llth, 2001? A. I was assigned or I put myself on
assignment immediately after I heard the transmission of the plane hitting the tower.
Q. Can you tell me about the events of that day?
A. Okay.

R. DAVILA
Q. Start from the top.
A. Actually just prior to the plane hitting tower one, I was in the office communicating with Lieutenant Bill Melarango. I just happened to be standing over the desk when I heard one of my units, "01 Charlie," put a priority message over the frequency stating that the plane just hit the tower. Seconds later I heard another one of my units, "01 Adam," yelling the same thing.
I immediately put myself on the assignment. I ran out, jumped in the vehicle, starting responding. When I got over to Rutgers and South Street, I was able to see the building. I saw a big hole, what appeared to me at that time to have been a fire or probably secondary to an explosion. I confirmed there was an incident. I couldn't confirm it was a plane because I didn't see the plane.
Immediately I confirmed the incident. I was over the citywide frequency. Basically I started calling for resources. I told them immediately to alert the senior staff. I told them to get the MERV rolling, start sending all

R. DAVILA 4
available units to that location. Being around during the bombing, I basically knew we had an incident which was going to generate a great many patients.
I couldn't tell you exactly what floor it was. I couldn't tell you how many floors were gone but there was a good portion of the building thatwasdefinitelydestroyed. SoIknewwehad some casualties and fatalities.
Responding now - - what do you want me to talk about? Do you want me to talk about personal feelings too?
Q. Sure. Everything.
A. Well,asfarasIfeel,alotof personal feelings came. Personally I always thought about - - you know you see that guy on 911 or something like that and he's a hero or somethingandhe'sabigshotorwhatever. I know for myself - - I can't speak for somebody else - - yeah, I'm going to be like that. Well, I was given the opportunity to be that guy, and I immediately did not want it.
As I'm driving, I'm driving and I'm also talking on the frequency. But I remember

R. DAVILA
that coming through my mind. I also thought of Lieutenant Tony Torres, first of all because he's from the battalion, second of all because he's Hispanic, but next he was the first responding supervisor to the bombing at the World Trade Center towers.
Going through all those thoughts and stuff also, I started trying to think
logistically, trying to think of how we were taught. Preplans, I don't even know if they existed since the merger. However, I still think that way.
So when I traveled down there, I was trying to go ahead and get down there where I could get down by Vesey Street. Vesey, as far as I remember, is the preplan for our staging area.
I remember I ran down, I came down around across by Beekman Hospital and made a right over on Beekman Street and went up. I did a couple turns across Broadway. I ended up coming down Vesey.
Right over here, right before the union is normally where we would have set up staging, but it appears when the towers got hit that a lot

R. DAVILA
of debris already was in that street and in that area. A lot of debris was flying around there, and it definitely wasn't, i f anything, a safe area to set a staging. Plus I noticed that all the other apparatus and stuff was s t i l l continuing on over to West Street.
So I continued on to West Street, made a left-hand turn, and I set the first -- staging and command post basically -- you've got West Street. I was on the east side of West Street.
I was setting staging of my units, and I had my command right over here, pretty much adjacent to the rescue that was running into tower one.
Q. That's where you parked your vehicle then?
A. That's where I originally parked my vehicle.
Q. Can you just indicate that by a number 1 on the map?
A. Trade Center one, Trade Center two. So I'll be like number 1.
Q. So you parked your vehicle there.
A. Right.
Q. And you tried to establish a command

R. DAVILA
post there?
A. That's what I had given directions.
Right behind, right on the other side of the median there was the bus of 01 Charlie. I couldn't see my other unit, 01 Adam, which later I found out they were actually on Liberty Street.
A couple other voluntaries were starting to arrive at that time, but I remember going over to 1 Charlie because they were my unit. I went to the back of the vehicle. They had about six - - is my language permissive?
Q. Whatever you want to say.
A. This is exactly the way I talk.
I ran to the back of the vehicle, and I said, "What the fuck you got?" No, I saw the patient in the back of the vehicle. I saw some people with difficulty breathing. Nobody was on 02. I didn't see no amputation or anything at that point.
I already knew that there was that type of patient coming out, because when I first went 84 on the scene and advised citywide, one or two people leaving the tower, I'd seen a couple of amputations. I'd seen a couple body parts in the

R. DAVILA
street coming towards that location.
I saw people coming completely burnt at
me where their clothes were singed off with burns, probably from one to fourth degree going down into the bone. They were walking to me, and I was immediately going, "Walking wounded, you go down that way across the street."
I went in the back of 1 Charlie. I said, "Do your patients walk?" He said, "Yeah." "Tell them to get the fuck out and run that way."
At that time I told him to close the door to the vehicle and pull every triage tag that they had available. I started just yelling at them, "Triage, triage, triage."
Then as the other units were responding in, all I was telling them is - - they were
like - - everybody was trying to run to grab a patient. I said absolutely not. I think that was one of the most difficult things I had. In fact, right now today, I was talking at roll call to people about triage and the importance of triage. I said, "Triage, triage, triage."
There were a couple AMR units there. I think the next unit I saw was a St. Vincent's

R. DAVILA
paramedic unit, and the same thing again. They're serious. I don't care. Triage, triage, triage.
At that time I went ahead and I noticed already I was losing my voice. I grabbed the crew of 1 Charlie. I knew these two guys. I told both of them to stick to me like glue. One of them was the staging officer. The other one had to stay with me because he was going to be my voice. Just in case I lost my voice completely, at least I was able to talk through him and he would have been able to communicate for me.
The onset from the time I was basically trying to grab a hold to try to get an ICS system operating. I knew senior staff was responding.
I have to be honest, when I first got there, the first thing I did was get out of my vehicle and look to see if I saw another light blue shirt. I was hoping somebody else got there before me. That's what I was actually hoping. But no, to my dismay, there was no one else there.
Q. Who did you make this staging officer?
A. The staging officer was EMT Alex Loutsky.

R. DAVILA
Q. Who was the other - -
A. As a matter of fact, you'll probably see him. He's in the press paper. He's downstairs too.
Q. Who was the person that stayed with you?
A. He was the one that just went out ill, secondary probably to this, Ralph Ramos.
Again just trying to get a hold of the whole situation. At that point I remember one thing. St. Vincent's unit had some people in their vehicle they were going to transport, and I said, "You're not going anywhere. You're triaging." I knew the importance of triage at that time until we got some more resources.
In between that I'm trying to transmit basically what's going on. I can't really remember much of my words except basically I was given them the access and advising that we have clear access to the location from both sides of West Street. I knew that was clear on both sides, whatever they could get in from that location.
There was debris all in the air, and I

R. DAVILA 11
remember I mentioned at one time this is a hard hat operation.
Then as I'm communicating I catch from my peripheral vision on the right - - I didn't even think about it hitting the building. I'm just basically like what the hell is he doing there. Before I knew it, he disappeared behind the building, and bingo, there was an explosion. I remember yelling over the frequency, however I communicated, a secondary explosion in the second building. At that time I remember I repeated over and over, because I had debris hit my helmet, "This is a hard hat situation, a hard hat operation, a hard hat operation."
I looked around me, and everybody like maybe stopped for a few seconds like, whoa. I can honestly say that it didn't stop the operation from moving in the direction that it was moving at that particular time. Everybody kind of appeared to still continue doing what they were doing. The firefighters were still loading into the building, except that now they're starting to run over to tower two.
A little while right after that, I

R. DAVILA 12
started seeing a couple light blue shirts come in. I don't remember the lieutenant's name. Lieutenant Mann was one of them from operations I remember seeing. Then I saw Lieutenant Terranova.
Q. Ross?
A. Ross he's here now. And Chief Gombo.
I came over to Chief Gombo. I still speak about this, because the look that he gave me - - he looked at me with his mouth open, and I looked at him the same way. I handed him my clipboard with the units that I had there to start. It was basically like the command was turned over with very little communication. It was just like this is it.
He knows I knew the area, and he asked me what was in the other side of the building. I'm like a little rattled. I think Loutsky or Ralph, because these guys follow directions, I told them to stay with me like glue. Every time I turned around, I bumped heads with them.
They told me Church and Fulton. Church and Fulton was told to Chief Gombo. He said, "You go ahead and start operations over there and

R. DAVILA 13
get the vehicle over there." We sent 1 Charlie, in their bus, came back over here, on Vesey going over to Church and Fulton right here in front of the Millennium.
Q. Did your vehicle go there also?
A. Yeah.Igotinmyvehicle,andI started going. However, on the way there a body jumps -- well, I think I drove over a couple of bodies and stuff like that.
Another walking body jumped in front of my vehicle. That happened to be Captain Stone. He was like, "Stop!" He ran from somewhere and just -- "Where you going?" I said, "Church and Fulton." He said, "I need you to take me here."
I said, "Chief Gombo told me to go ahead." He said, "I told you to fucking take me here." I said, "Okay. You're going there. You're going there."
I put him in the vehicle and brought him over to the command post, got my vehicle turned back around, and I made it t o Church and Fulton.
Q. That's indicated by number 2 on the map?

R. DAVILA
A. Right.
Church and Fulton, I tell you, when we
first got there, it took longer than it would take normally to get there. There were lamp posts in the street. There was all kinds of metal on the street. There's soot about two feet high in different areas throughout the street. There's bodies. There's been a couple of bodies and people still coming out.
Of course now we're being approached by PD and everything: I have a patient here. I've got a patient there. I'm telling them, "I can't handle it. Tell them to run and go that way. Tell them to go that way."
What we started doing is right in front of the Millennium, started to direct walking wounded to go over -up Fulton Street, and the ones that needed oxygen, things of that nature, we were setting up over here in this area.
Already by that time now I started getting more resources. I saw the Cabrini paramedics show up. I had a lot of AMR units
there.  Lieutenant
came.

R. DAVILA
Q. ?
A. , right.
Now, you want to hear personal feelings? I'll give you personal feelings. You know what, she could be a fantastic person, but they don't have field experience. I think this
i s very important, because a couple incidents happened.
I went over and I see Loutsky, and I walk over. First of all, she was there. She was a captain, the highest ranking. But I still felt that I was in charge of that operation and I felt it calling me to that.
I had my unit 1 Charlie, and I see Alex. By that time we've got AMR, and we're loading the AMR buses. They were parked, and they were parking a l l over. There was no
structure. So what we're doing i s we're blocking that access and egress out of that location.
There was no structure.
The same thing with my voluntary units that were coming there. They had 911 training. They're able to go ahead and treat the patient accordingly. However, no idea of the incident

R. DAVILA
command system, staging or about getting in, getting out.
When I started doing AMR, I started to tell Loutsky, "Load all the minor injuries and stuff in there. Get them and just tell them to take the bus over to Brooklyn." I didn't want to load the hospitals in Manhattan. Shoot the bus over to fucking Brooklyn. Just get them out of the way, because they were in the way. That was the bottom line.
But I see Loutsky at one time with a clipboard, and he's trying to take names of people that are fucking hysterical. I said, "What the fuck are you doing?" He said, "The captain told me to do tracking and take names." Tracking is fine when you've got 10 patients and 20 patients and maybe even 50 patients, but I've got two fucking 110-story buildings emptying out in front of me and I've got a captain telling me do tracking.
So I told him, "Fuck what the captain said. I'm in charge, and I'm telling you forget about names and forget about fucking numbers. Just load them in the bus and get them out of

R. DAVILA
If I'm wrong, you write me up, and I'll -go see your guys in BITS. But you know what?
here. "
Fuck it. I thought that was - - and I told her afterwards when we did that interview for Third
Watch. I made it a little joke. I had t-
o be a little respectful, but I had to go ahead and
explain that.
The sector was starting to get
formed - - we had like the sector. I had - - again, people from opera~ions
is a very nice guy. People in operations,
they're not used to the fucking street or to reality. He came in and all of a sudden he started talking on the radio. I said,
what the fuck you doing talking on the radio?" Gombo don't got time to hear that shit. This is the big one. We got an assignment. You do the assignment. Bottom line, get the patients out. Maybe down the line you get calmed down. Then you start playing here's the command system.
Bottom line is you've been trained to do this; you go ahead and do it. I'm pissed off a little now about it after the fact. Then you
-=

R. DAVILA 18
didn't have the time. It was just like what the fuck are you doing?
So I came out and said, "You want command? Here, use my radio. Take command. But we need to react. Somebody needs to be the treatment officer. You're a medic. I gave you the treatment officer." Bottom line, I didn't want to go ahead and pull I'm the senior lieutenant, whatnot. It wasn't time for that.
These are some of my feelings, because if they're going to do anything about this, people need to remember the old way we used to do it in EMS that, you know what, the senior lieutenant is the one in charge until the next person of rank comes in, in that nature.
The bottom line is get the patients out. Triage and get the patients out of the goddamn way. That's the bottom way. That's the way I was taught. That's the way Chief Goldfarb taught me back in the old days. This is the way you do MCI, this is the way you do it, get it done. Guys like Captain Stern and Jeff Armstrong. All these guys, they did MCIs, not the playing and fucking around on the radio,

R. DAVILA 19
talking about I've got this and that, because you know what? You got thousands of people coming.
By now I'm watching people jump out of windows. It's not like when I saw them jump six, seven or eight out of the Shomberg Plaza up in Harlem. They were jumping now one, two, three, four, smashing like fucking eggs on the ground. People were getting hit by bodies falling.
These guys were talking about write down names. I was like, you're fucking out of your mind.
(Interruption.)
A. Again, the system was starting to get
running. I remember Duane Walker. Duane Walker is one of the division supply guys. He came and brought extra tanks of 02, starting unloading those in the sector. I remember asking somebody to try to tape off areas over here in front of the Millennium, because you had the lobby, you had the lobby was here in the corner, and I was telling the walking wounded to go that way.
We had people with all kinds of injuries. A lot of the primary injuries that we were getting originally was nothing but

R. DAVILA
hysterical patients, a lot of hysterical. I remember one guy across the street went into a grand ma1 seizure and stuff like that, and they pulled me over there. This guy is down and I looked. I said, "He's having a seizure. Just stay around him and make sure he doesn't get hurt. Bye. "
We were starting to get people moving. Again, we were using AMR. They had like three or
four buses there, i f I ' m correct. I know about two of them before the collapse happened I was able to get out, load them up and get them out of here.
Now, something that really fucks with me a lot is Lillo. Lillo came up to me and said,
"Lieutenant, my wife is in the building." I'm like, "Oh, what are you saying? What are you saying?" I don't even know his wife. I knew his other wife that worked the same job, but I don't know his new lady. "Okay, do me a favor. Help me out here and if I see her I'll direct you to her."
We were just working along. People were pulling my coat, "This one is more serious.

R. DAVILA 21
I've got to go." Tag them. We get a bus, we throw them in.
I remember one guy was laying down. He had an open chest wound about the size of my fist in his right chest. I kept on looking. I knew what was coming. I knew he was going to go downhill. He had that look in his eye like - - he wasn't even talking. He was going into shock.
All of a sudden you heard the rumble and people yelling and screaming. You look and you see - - I didn't see the top of the building. I didn't see the top of tower two. The collapse started. You felt like the ground - - it was like a deep sound, rumble; like you're laying on the platform and the D train is coming. You look and you see what - - I best describe it as a wave coming.
I started running in my direction. I started running into the hotel. Something knocked me. I don't know whether it was - -
Q. The Millennium?
A. We were in front of the Millennium. I'm talking going in through the lobby.
Q. Okay.

R. DAVILA
A. Something knocked me down. I don't know if something hit my helmet or whether it was a force. I got down, and I thought I've got to get up. By the time I got up, it was like
[sound] I'm overcome by black and I'm running in the building in this black, and I'm running and I'm running and I'm running.
The next thing I know, I light, and I follow that light. I and I find I'm in an office, and I door. I close the door and then I and I'm panicked, I'm panicked. I lost it for a few minutes in here.
see a little run in there, close the start walking, lost it. I
In this room there's nothing but computers, maybe five, six computers, and phones.
As I'm in there, this force is still coming through the cracks of the door. I see some coats
and I saw a water fountain. So I wet
wet them and I stuff them under. I'm
walking back and forth, "I'm a medic.
medic. I'm not a fucking firefighter. What do you do? What do you do? What do you do?"
I went to one of the computers for a minute. I thought I'd go on AOL or something and
them, and I
like
I'm a

R. DAVILA 23
call for help. I was like, "What the hell am I doing?" I was in a dead end. There was no way out of that office. I'm now going, "What the fuck did you do? You idiot. You ran out. There's no way out. You're going to die in here." It was getting real difficult for me to breathe in there, the dust, and there was no air transmitting across.
There was a bunch of debris. I tried to get out. I said, "I've got to get out of here." I've got one of those little super lights from Gauls magazine. Better than a mag light. It's pretty bright. It wasn't bright enough.
Could you excuse me a minute?
MR. ECCLESTON: We'll stop the tape at 12:47.
(Pause.)
MR. ECCLESTON: We're continuing this
interview at 12:49.
A. I was in this office or whatever it
was. I went ahead - - I opened up the door, and some of it - - the noise had settled. However, you heard distant sounds. I said let me try to get out of here. I opened up. It's pitch-,

R. DAVILA 24 pitch-, pitch-black. The only light was inside
the door.
I grabbed this mag light, and I said maybe if I could make it out through this corridor or whatever I walk through I'll hit some light and I'll get the hell out of here. I've got this light and I'm feeling myself through the wall. With the flashlight you could only see probably less than a foot.
I'm feeling. All of a sudden I am walking and walking and I find myself inside an elevator. That's when I realized this is the wrong thing to do, because it could be the elevator is not here and I'm going to end up falling down the shaft.
So I tried to get back. It took me a while to find myself back. By now I'm really gagging for air. I get back in, and I close back that door. When I got in there, now it's a different feeling. It's a feeling of this is it, I bought the bullet, I'm going to die. I have to honestly say, all of a sudden from the panic that I was at it was just like a warmth. What do you do?

R. DAVILA 25
Actually w-hat I did, I picked up the phone, and I got a dial tone. I called my wife. She doesn't really work too far. I called her,
-and I'm thinking -- if she answers the phone hysterical. I got the secretary or somebody in the office, and she was on the phone. She said, "I saw it." Her office is up at 250 Church. They viewed the whole thing. She knows I work this area and the whole nine yards.
I'm said,
You could hear her yelling on he other side of the phone with people from 911.
I'm said,

R. DAVILA
I don't know how much time goes by between those periods, but there still wasn't the second collapse. I come out. I push out some of the rubble and stuff like that. I started seeing a little light, which turned out to be the lobby. I came out in the lobby, and it's destroyed. I couldn't go out the way I came in through the lobby. I came out through the side door on Fulton Street. I'm covered in soot.
I come out. It was terrible when I got there and we set up all of this and how I drove there. There were people on the ground. There was debris morbidly all over.
I was devastated. I was like relieved that I got out of that building, but I was like look at this. The radio was basically quiet then. If you heard anything, it was point-to-point communications. You heard some maydays and you hear people yelling for help, 13.
I'm like walking like the (inaudible), and I met up with this kid Ramos. And we hugged

R. DAVILA
and we kissed. I told him, "What we can't do alone we can do together. We'll get the fuck out of here."
He goes (inaudible). I said, "Ramos?" He said, "What?" I said, "I left my wallet and my refund check in the fucking vehicle. I don't think Uncle Sam is going to give me another refund check."
Q. At this point was your vehicle lost?
A. Basically all we to do is go around the building, came around. But it took longer than usual because you're walking in like this shit. Like you move and it's this soot like heavy dust.
While we're walking I realize that we only have two people. I see my vehicle. The seats are covered. I've still got my bag. I hold it like a trophy. Like people collect basketballs. I haven't touched - - whatever the force was, it was so strong that it went inside of the bag.
But we were there. Vehicle 219 was
destroyed.
Q. Was it on fire? A. What?

R. DAVILA
Q. Was it on fire?
A. Fire? We saw the sucker blow up. We heard "Boom!" We were walking up Fulton Street. I don't know how far we made it up when someone says, "The building's coming down." By the time I realized, it's a repeat.
We were running, and I looked back and it seems like the sides of the street were getting narrower. The sound got louder and the wave. I remember we separated one time and Ramos wanted to go down into the train station. I said, "No fucking way. We're out here. Without ventilation, we're definitely dead." I said, "If
I'm going to die, fighting chance." We held The next thing we you, it's silent.
I'm going to die with a
hands, and we were running. know, [sound]. When it covers
Ramos was just a little slightly like (inaudible). I couldn't see him.
I tell him - - I always have a handkerchief; it's an old Spanish thing. I had my handkerchief, and I wrapped it around. I told Ramos the same thing. I said, "Wrap something around your mouth. Keep the soot and stuff out and just

R. DAVILA
breathe shallow. Just take enough oxygen, because you don't want to breathe all this dust." If anything that was comical, the human
body - - or maybe I'm just a fucking nut. Things that happened, because we're walking and Ramos says, "Lieutenant." I'm like, "What the fuck you want?" You could hear each other and that's it. He said, "I lost my radio." We're dying. We're going to die. This guy is telling me he lost his fucking radio. I said, "Remind me if we make it through this, and I'll fucking write you up."
The next thing you hear (knock),my helmet hits - - I still don't know what it is. I'm assuming it was a lamppost or something. That's when I told Ramos this is not going to work, we're not going to make it. We decided we were holding on together. We held together, baby.
We moved over to the right, and we felt along through the buildings. Along through the building, all the businesses must have been locked up after the first impact, because all the businesses were closed. We're walking and walking.

R. DAVILA
I happened to catch a little light. There was a glass in a cleaner. I'm banging, "Open the fuck up or I'm kicking this shit in." Nobody wanted it kicked in because all that shit will come in. They opened up. We ran in. We came in there -- what turned out to be a Subway store.
There were a bunch of people in there. I was happy t o see them; they were happy t o see us. I have to honestly say that thank God for those people and the situation I thought of, because they were looking at us because we were in uniform. "Us" is me and Ramos. Ramos is looking at me because I'm the lieutenant. So that took away the panic from me, and reliving this it's, okay, I'm Lieutenant Davila, I've got to be a leader.
So I remember -- I go and I yell out, "Who's the boss?" An oriental guy raises his hand. I said, "Well, by order of the City of New York, I'm the boss now. Go in your register, get your money, put it in your pocket." Then I told everybody step back, and I told anybody who tried to open up the door I was going to kick their

R. DAVILA
ass. I got everybody to the back of the store.
I remember I told the man -- there was
two guys that were willing to help. I said,
"Just get some stuff, stuff it under the door and try to keep as much debris, or whatever, coming in."
I didn't know what was going on. I know the first building fell and there was shit all over, and I know the second one fell and we were closer to it. I have to honestly say after the first plane hit, I thought there was a chance of me dying. After that first collapse and I was in that building, I thought I was dead. I made
it through that and I'm like, oh, fuck.
I tell you, the feelings, again, that I've had, you know what, false pride is
unbelievable, things that we have to go through,
hisiswha~I'm~hinkingabou~.BUL I was thinking of myself as a corpse already. Lieutenant Davila died in the line of duty.

R. DAVILA
I kept these people in the back. They're all hysterical. I'm like, "Shut up. Stop it. You can't control this. Let's try to make it together. Save the oxygen." I was telling them, "Nobody move without me knowing where you're going."
You know what was the funniest thing?
I ended up taking off my turnout coat. I took it and I threw it over the counter. The Chinese guy came and took my turnout coat and pulled it on the floor. I ' m like, "What the fuck you doing?" He said, "Food, food." I ' m like, "Fucking food, there's soot all over this shit." Now I'm mad.
I took my fucking thing and I put it back over it. "Fuck you, you jerk."
. I made him open up the refrigerator, get bottles of water, give it
to the people to drink.
We were in there for a while. The time
period that we were in there I really don't know. I would probably say maybe 20 minutes or so like

R. DAVILA 33
that. Then all of a sudden we start seeing the lights start flickering.
So what I did was I told them to open up the door and I came out. I came out just to look and see what's going on there. I started seeing some people up in the corner. It was much clearer. I guess that's where the avenue opened up, West Broadway, where it was opening up. I think Chase Manhattan Bank is over here.
So what I did was I came back in there. I saw a couple ambulances and stuff. I asked the Oriental guy, "Do you have any towels?" He said, "Yeah." I said, "Everybody grab a towel. Wrap it around your face." I had everybody holding hands. I had about 18, 20 people in there. I had everybody hold hands, and I just had them go out the side of the building and just head east.
We came up here, and it was me and Ramos. We came out to sunlight, I saw Bruce Medjuck there. I think I saw Pat Scaringello. Then we started hearing the radio: "Stage in Battery Park or Chambers and West." It would be just sounds and it was horrible. It sounded horrible. I really thought that we had - - EMS

R. DAVILA
would have a lot more casualties than what it was, because I didn't see them. The thought was devastating.
Then, I for-got, Amy Monroe showed up at he s~agingarea
Bill Melarango. These people need to be commended. We came in and had to be there. Bill was a station boss. She was out on leave of
absence. Then she shows up in a crisp white uniform.
When I got up there, my concern was for Bill, Amy and Alex.
BUL me and Ramos wenL nuLs going looking for them. Walking back over there, we
found Alex. He's okay. We never found Amy. We never found Bill. We went back there looking for them and looking for them and couldn't find them. We thought maybe we lost them.
So again it was me and Ramos. You know, I go to the right guy. I said, well, okay, we've got to regroup. I hear this going on - -
and we begin walking. We walked down to Beekman.

R. DAVILA 35
Beekman was set up pretty nicely. We waited for patients and stuff like that. There were a couple of patients, but not what they were preparing for. That was really like - - I started thinking, we ain't getting the numbers.
The force of this was so great that there was debris and soot all the way down past South Street.
So I had to do something. We're there. I called it war then. It's really war now. I said, like, okay, I've got to deal with this. What will you do? What am I going to do? I started meeting a couple of people straggling
out, some
okay, I'm
of St. Vincent's units. I'm going, the only one here with any authority. So they were helping out at the
and I told them to continue. I asked they were doing. They just brought a
hospital,
them what
couple patients there. Then one or two of them, their partners were missing, so they were just cross-eyed. I got them in the room, calmed them down, take it easy.
I found this guy Duane Walker, the equipment guy, here. Basically I'm like, "Come

R. DAVILA
on, fellows." I got Lawrence from communications. I don't know how he ended up getting them. He ended up there with civilian clothes and a shield. I said, "You're going to stay with us too."
Q. Do you know what his last name is?
A. No. Iknowhe'sanEMTfor-- heworks for communications. (Inaudible). He was there.
Ashby, you know about Ashby; right? Q. Yes.
A. I found out that there was - - I forgot the name of the place now. I go there all the time. But right down Fulton Street - - okay, this is further down. Down by Beekman, down by Fulton and Pearl there's a nursing facility, and they work in conjunction with New York Downtown. I heard they were starting a triage and the treatment center over there.
I took a walk down there to see how they were doing. I spoke to one of the doctors over there. Basically what the doctor at that time told me was that they needed some saline and tubing for eye washing stuff.
So I walked back to hospital 01. I

R. DAVILA 37
wasn't going to bring that equipment back over there, because I knew I had to get back to an EMS command. I had to make a decision, I was going to the Battery or I'm going to West and Chambers. So I told them and I got the Cabrini people to go ahead and bring them their supplies. I did that.
Finally I was trying to decide which way I'm going to go, and my decision was I'm going to West and Chambers. My real reason for going to West and Chambers is because I knew my wife was on Church, and in walking I had to go by there, it's just a block by. I actually went by and said I'm here, I'm alive.
Then I left and headed to the command post at West and Chambers. Everything down there was pretty calm. Actually it took a little while to get to West and Chambers and stuff like that still. You're meeting up with people. I found out they had a little staging area already. That's where I met up with Captain Parra.
MR. ECCLESTON: Rene Davila on October 12th, 2001, continuation on side two.
A. Actually prior to meeting up with Parra on Greenwich, after we started crossing Church

R. DAVILA
the other way, I ended up meeting academy personnel. I met up with a bunch of people from the academy. Captain Gio Pineda was there with a couple other people.
I guess I must have been rowdy because they came both to me and Ramos and looked at us and said, "Come on, get in the bus, I'm not going on no bus. I've got to go work and everything else."
Then the news media started. They found out that I was there, that I was in the
Marriott and the first boss there. And Travis was there. Not the captain, the lieutenant.
Q. Barry Travis?
A. Yeah. And Maggiure - - the news media
- - that's okay - - I walked away from them.
That's when everyone went by and I saw Fern and I started heading towards West and Chambers and I

R. DAVILA
I made it back to West and Chambers. That was a good sight. It was a good sight to see all the firefighters and all the firemen and seeing buses from like counties I never heard of. It must have been a couple hours already that passed by.
Then I made it to Stuyvesant School. Again, I'm not - - me and Ramos stuck together. I went there and I said I'm not staying and sitting in an auditorium. Then I was looking for

R. DAVILA 40
something to do. I know I was part of it and I wanted to do more. I saw the itch in these poor kids that got there, and they wanted to do something. They were keeping them locked in - - you know why they should have had them standing outside. They were dying.
I remember I made it back out to the street and stuff again, and Chief McCracken came up to me. Chief McCracken saw me, and he said, "I thought you were dead. It's good to see you." That was it. We talked. We did it facing everybody hanging out there. That's all there was.
I'm sti 1 looking for Amy and Bill. I finally started - - somebody told me that Amy was at the hospital. I'll tell you a story about that. I don't care how unoffic-ial that is, I
(inaudible) on that one. Somebody saw Bill, so I felt a lot better.
Everybody took to their high horse and shit. I have to say that when I got to the command, I see Kowalczyk and everybody looked like they're gummy bears, full of dust, and he was in his crisp white shirt.

R. DAVILA 41
Then I saw Stone coming in, and he said, "Rene, what are you doing? I want clipboards and paper pads." I'm like, "You're fucking serious? You want clipboards? I'll get you fucking clipboards. I went to Stuyvesant High School. I'm Puerto Rican. I'm pretty good at something."
I found my way to an office, and I start opening drawers. The secretary's always got a stash. We open drawers and find a bunch of pads. I got him a pad, I got him a fucking pencil sharpener, I got him a fucking ruler, I got him clipboards, I got him everything out of there and said, "Here, mother fucker."
I think McCracken just noticed that I was fucking wild. He ordered me, "I want you to sit down. You're upset." "No." "That's it. Sit down."
That was it. That was basically where I ended up, me and Ramos. Then all of a sudden Ramos kind of collapsed on me, so I got a bus for Ramos. We were married then. He was going to

R. DAVILA 42
hospital 01. I'm going to hospital 01 with him. I don't know about what time. I guess it was about 8:30, 9:00 at night.
We get him on a stretcher and into hospital 01. The nurses saw me there, and they grabbed me. I kind of buckled at the knees.
They treated me like (inaudible). I still couldn't stand still. I was like, "Get this shit off me."
That's basically my part. That's how my day went. I finally got out of here probably around midnight or so, and I was back up at 4:30 in the morning. I was back here at 6:00 again.
That's it.
Q. Is there anything else you would like
to add? Any other feelings or anything?

R. DAVILA 43

On the EMS side of this,-that I'm aware of, there's only two fatalities.

R. DAVILA 45

R. DAVILA 46

R. DAVILA
I saw people die. I saw people jump out of windows, more than I've ever seen in my

R. DAVILA 48
life. Let me tell you something else. I'm 51 fucking years old. I've seen just about fucking everything and I've done a lot more. And you think about it. We have been able to keep ourselves intact.

R. DAV-ILA 49
1 ' m glad to see my bosses there. I'm glad t o have seen McCracken there. I thank them. And Gombo, who I heard almost died in this.
I'm glad to see these guys. I was glad to hear Goldfarb on the radio, Mr. MCI. It was like, okay, here we go.
Q. You've got a lot to be proud of. A. EMS didn't do things that bad.

R. DAVILA 50
Let me shut up. Thank you.
Q. Thank you today for conducting this
interview with us.
MR. ECCLESTON: This interview is being
concluded at 128 hours. The counter on the cassette player is 892 /-FPLT

File No. 9110076
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMS CAPTAIN MARK STONE
Interview Date: October 12, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason

M. STONE
MS. BASTEDENBECK: Today's date is October 12, 2001. The time now is 850 hours. I'm at Battalion 8. My name is Christine Bastedenbeck of the New York City Fire Department. I'm conducting an interview with the following individual.
Q. Please state your name rank, title and
assignment.
A. Mark Stone, Captain, Commanding Officer, EMS,
Battalion 8. Day of incident, unit DC 01.
Q. Also present at this interview is - -
A. Christopher Eccleston of the New York City
Fire Department, World Trade Center Task Force.
Q. Captain Stone, I would like you to tell us
about the events of the morning of September 11, 2001. A. Well, just before the incident was
transmitted, we were preparing to move the station into our new trailers, because they were going to destroy our old station. We were at the trailers when the MERV operator, who was with me, informed me of the
incident. He said that a plane hit the World Trade Center.
Q. Can you just tell me the MERV's operator's name?
A. That was Rick Perez. So I was with a member

M. STONE
of executive administration, Mr. Dave Harney, and all of my equipment would have been located at Division 1 down on pier 36. I asked Dave if he could give me a ride down there. His vehicle doesn't have any lights or sirens, it's a regular sedan, so we jumped in the car and we took off. We were heading down the FDR Drive and listening to it and it seemed pretty chaotic already, the Lieutenant giving his first report, that he wasn't even on the scene, that he saw heavy smoke from the Trade Center.
At one point the Trade Center became visible to me. My first thought was oh, my god, a plane really hit the World Trade Center. I used my cellphone and I called RCC to make sure I was logged onto show me a route to the Trade Center. I called the Division to have my aide for the day-to-day, Gregg Brady, get the truck ready, make sure he had all my equipment so that we were set to go when I got there.
It was interesting later on I don't even know why. I ran upstairs and I grabbed extra cell phone batteries, which I never do. It was pretty interesting. We got in the truck, listening to reports coming in on Citywide and we ended up taking the Battery Park Tunnel underneath to come up on the West

M . STONE
Street side of the incident. We came up right out of the tunnel. I was looking up to see if I could do a little more initial size up. That is when I saw the second plane hit the building. I just watched it coming i n .
I see that the plane hit and I'm really thinking for the safety of the members that we got operating already, Lieutenant D'Avila did a great job. He notified everybody it was a hard hat operation and he started setting up the incident command system for this event, which later on just had to be reworked many times.
Everything was completely grid locked a t the mouth of the Battery Tunnel, so I had to get out of the truck at that point. I told my aide when you free it up, park the vehicle and meet me at the command post.
I actually walked up from the Battery Tunnel and when I'm walking up, I'm trying to watch what's going on,
get a good picture of the area.
Some people, instead of walking along buildings, were in the middle of the street. I directed them to the side. The cops were doing job. It was pretty good evacuation going on at moment. Orderly, there weren't many people who
a good that were

M. STONE
hysterical. No patients were presenting themselves south, so things were really moving along.
I got up to the front of the building and took a better look. I heard Lieutenant D'Avila was on the opposite side.
Q. Which building was that?
A. I was approaching number 1 World Trade Center, because that's where I knew he was, on the other side towards Vesey from listening to the radio. I was approaching number 1 World Trade Center, because I was going go into the lobby of the building where the command post was being set up.
I knew there were other officers coming in and there were many senior officers coming in. I wanted to see what I was going to be confronted with before I predetermined in my mind that I would be taking command of the incident.
I'm looking along the buildings and naturally glass and debris is flying from the building, but it was really clear that if you walked along the side of the building, you were fine getting in. There weren't - - naturally everything is a safety issue at that point, but it was really clear going in. If you stayed along the side of the building, you would be okay,

M . STONE
because everything was falling out more into the street.
I made it into the lobby at the command post and Chief Gombo was just arrived as well. We met together really quick and we determined that we would need a few ambulance crews inside and we would start setting up a triage area in the lobby of the building. He asked me to identify a place really quick. There was an area that was set off that wasn't being handled by the command post. It was really at the time we thought a safe location. Who was to know what would happen later.
We went back out and, myself and my aide, Gregg Brady, we identified three crews, two BLS and an ALS crew. I remember specifically that I took 9 Charlie, 7 Nora and 11x-ray. Thank god that all those guys made it out alive.
Q. Do you remember who the personnel on those units were?
A. I remember that 9 Charlie or 7 Nora. They are both St. Claire's units and 11 x-ray i s a Lenox
H i l l unit. I made sure everybody had helmets because I wouldn't take anybody without one. They did said they did. I know from working with these guys in the field

M . STONE
that they are a l l working crews, that I took some good crews with us.
I went back into the lobby of the building and my aide was behind me and he came up to me and he said Cap, they are concerned about coming into the building. I told him, I said, at this point, you know, orders only go so far. I told him go back. If they don't want to come into the building, if they have any hesitation, go get me three crews that will come into the building. It's sort of fruitless to start ordering people at that point.
We just find the volunteers that we can and it turns out they all came in. We had the crews and then in speaking to Chief Gombo, I don't know how he came up with it, but he said go scout out 7 World Trade Center for me over by OEM. They want to set up a triage over there.
Rather than go back out through the buildings, which I knew what we were facing safety wise, we went through the complex and we came out on Vesey Street right opposite 7 World Trade Center. We made it into the lobby. There was no problem at that point. We found out that 7 World Trade Center houses OEM and Secret Service and a bunch of other agencies,

M . STONE
but they were all evacuated at that point.
They shut down the command center and they
were evacuating OEM. Everybody felt it was pretty safe to be in the lobby of the building. At that time I met Chief Peruggia, Captain Abdo Nahmod, and Richard Zarrillo, who is the special events coordinator for Chief Peruggia. I spoke with Chief Peruggia real quick and I left the crews with him and he told me to go report back t o Chief Gombo.
The interesting thing to that is when I talked to John later on, a couple days later, i f I would have stayed one second later and talked to him another second, I would have been in the lobby when the building collapsed. Or if I would have left him a second earlier, I would have been standing next to Chief Ganci when the building collapsed. There is a whole bunch of fate going on here.
I went back through the lobby of the building and we were met with a Secret Service agent who was
just physically exhausted from running up the buildings. I told him now is not the time to be exhausted because he thought that he was going to be a patient. I told him if you can evacuate yourself, evacuate yourself. Everybody was out of the building.

M . STONE
I made sure there was nobody from EMS still in the lobby because we were moving our entire operation. I was the last one out of 1World Trade Center.
I made it about halfway across West Street and I was just stepping into the street off the center median when I heard what is going to be instilled in my memory forever; a sound that combines a railroad car,
an airplane, a fighter jet and thunder. I looked up and I saw the World Trade Center falling down. Number 1 World Trade Center was coming down. Number 2, I couldn't even really be sure at that point. One of the buildings was falling on my head. I said oh, my god. You really only had a split second to make a decision.
I could have ran left, I could have ran right, which would have been north or south on West Street, but I looked right in front of me and I was looking at the command post where I saw a l l the senior Chiefs. I saw Chief Kowalczyk. I saw Chief Gombo and there was, i n the American Express building, i n the World Financial Center, there was actually an underground garage and I don't know why I chose that garage, but I chose to run straight ahead for the garage. I must have made it in
-- I don't know whether I was in 10, 20, 30, 50, 100 feet. I know I wasn't in far, but all of a sudden just

M. STONE
a woosh and a thrush, just, I started getting hit by debris. I got picked up and started being thrown. We were tripping over each other; firemen, Chiefs, Captains, Lieutenants, EMTs. I don't know if there were any EMTs, I should not say that.
We just got thrown, and everything went black and it was almost silent. Right at that moment I saw my two kids. I saw my father who passed away. I was actually in the air flying along and it was only, I guess, maybe a second, and I said to myself my god, that's it, it's over, because it was black and it was silent.
Then I hit the ground. Then stuff was just pilingontopofme. AssoonasIhit,Ifellonmy shoulder. I got an excruciating pain. So I said to myself - - this is all within a second this is going on through my mind. I said to myself, I said, you are not dead because there is no pain in heaven. I feel this excruciating pain running down my arm. Now I'm getting hit in the back of my head and everything and thank god I had my helmet on.
Another interesting thing was that I wore my turnout coat that day. I don't wear my turnout coat too often. Forever I will wear my turnout coat every

M. STONE
day. I wore my turnout coat, so everything was just hitting me in the back. I said all right I'm not dead, because I'm not in heaven. Then I said wait a second. Maybe I'm in hell. Right at that moment I just decided there's no way I'm staying in hell. I don't belong here. I just stayed down for a another few seconds. I know that was a conscious decision I made just to stay down and try and let things subside a little bit.
It was still pitch black. Dust was flying.
I couldn't breathe at that point. I couldn't see anything. I couldn't hear anybody else around me, so I'm just assuming that there really is nobody else around me, that, you know, the worst has come. I didn't want to come to that realization yet. While I'm thinking it, I didn't want to believe it.
I waited another few seconds and then I - - it was sort of like it subsided a little bit, because I didn't hear any more rumble, but it was still quiet. I managed to get up, clean some stuff off me and start figuring that I had to search my way out of here. I think of a few things really quick. Back to years and years and years ago when I went to basic fire training in Suffolk County Fire Academy, I said you know what I got to do. The first thing I got to do is I got to

M. STONE
breathe, otherwise I will be dead in no time. So I actually took my head and I took my turnout coat and I disengaged. I pulled the snaps off and I disengaged my liner and everybody always made fun of me because I always left my full liner in the coat even in the summer. I disengaged the liner and I actually used that to shield me to breathe. Probably one of the two things that saved my life.
The other was after we started going I remembered that coming from SOD, you always had Nomex hoods, because when we suited up we had to wear hoods. I said, well, I got my hood in my pocket. I pulled my hood out and I used that also. So I had at that point, which was a double filter, to allow me to breathe. So it had to be like - - I'm estimating, probably another 10 minutes, that I couldn't find anybody. I was just
- - I guess sort of just wandering around in there, just trying to find my way out.
Then I saw a light and it was a fireman. He was calling out to people. I said yes, I'm over here. Now it's just the two of us. We started moving down. We made a pact that we were both getting out of there alive. I don't know who this guy was. I believe that he saved my life, because without that light, without

M . STONE
the two of us reassuring each other, I'm not quite sure I would have made it out of there. I would love to know who he was. The two of us together, we said we stay together no matter what happens.
Another few minutes l a t e r we found another firefighter, another firefighter. Nobody was injured.
My shoulder wasn't really a concern a t that point. I had sprained my knee, I had hurt my shoulder, but that wasn't like a concern. We found a few more guys. I don't know how long it was. It was a while, but everything was s t i l l pitch black. Nobody could breathe down there. A few firefighters had masks. They were passing them off t o help some people out. Some firemen didn't have masks. There was a real spirit of -- this was at the time like 5 or 6 guys, that we were just fighting for our lives.
I don't know, it could have been two minutes, it could have been two hours. It could have been 20 minutes. Best guess that I can imagine was like 20 minutes. We searched our way and we had an orderly search that we all just held on to each other and we found a wall and we essentially just searched our way out of the building.
These guys, everybody just sort of fell back

M . STONE
to training that they had learned over the years and you know, that's how we searched our way out of there. We found a stairwell and then we found a whole bunch of more firefighters. I guess it was about 20 of us then.
Q. The stairwell, was this lit and everything?
A. Yes, actually that was the only thing that was lit, which was pretty strange. I imagine from the emergency lighting. So we walked up and the door -- I think they said it had to be forced. I wasn't sure, because we were in the stairwell for a minute. We were talking to each other and we said, you all right, you all right, you all right.
We made it out of the stairwell. It led us right out, I want to say that we were -- we actually came out the back of the Financial Center, because I was looking a t the Hudson a t that point. That's where we walked, just right to the water, which wasn't far.
At that point I said out loud, I said, okay, let me get my thoughts together. We got to go back to work. One of the firemen looked at me and he said are you stupid. I said yes. In this case I must be. I remembered clearly at that point -- I mean some people were jumping on boats at that point, because there were boats lined up along the Hudson. People were just

M . STONE
jumping on boats and I thought of doing that at a point.
But I remember specifically that I remembered Chief Kowalczyk, that I left -- that he was the last person that I really physically saw. I ended up making
Street. I was actually over at that West End?
right. I was a t North End Avenue and Vesey Street, where I met with Chief Goldfarb. At
that point we didn't know really what the outcome of this whole thing was going to be, but we decided real quick that we needed to put together a plan because there is still a monumental incident ahead of us. I was just trying to keep my composure at that point, because I still had a job to do. Being a Captain,
there are still many people that are under me who are going to look to me for guidance and support. There is also Chiefs that really need me to function.
So I took a few seconds, I took a few deep breaths and I told Chief Goldfarb that I remember leaving Chief Kowalczyk and I need to go back and find him, because we s t i l l haven't seen him. Again the time frame wasn't much after the building collapsed. Still
my way back to Vesey West End Avenue. Is Q. North End?
A. North End,

M. STONE
I don't even remember which one collapsed first. I'm sort of, I guess to this point, one and two was immaterial. It was one of the towers. I believe it was two that came down first, because right after that, I told Chief Goldfarb, I am going back to find Chief Kowalczyk. I know where I left him. I know where he should have been, because we still haven't seen him.
We haven't heard from him.
At that point my aide, who I'm thinking all
along, because he was behind me, collapsed and I didn't know. I just assumed that he was dead. That - - you know, now I am by myself. He popped up and then there was a quick moment of embrace, hugging and again praying to god at that point. Like someone said, there were no atheists down at Ground Zero.
I said okay. Now we are going to go find Chief Kowalczyk. We went back around and I was standing in the corner of West Street and Vesey Street where I met Chief Basile, Chief Cassano, Chief Hayden, Chief Pfeifer, Chief Pfeifer from the first, Chief Hayden, Fire Division 1 commander, Chief Basile, EMS Division 2 commander. Chief Cassano at the time was the Citywide Tour Commander. We were briefly speaking for a second.

M. STONE
We were standing in the corner of West Street and Vesey Street, and I heard that rumble again, that roar, that thunder, and I said dear god, I almost died once. God can't be letting this happen to me again. I looked up. This is how I know 2 fell first. I looked up and it was happening again. 1 World Trade Center was falling on my head now.
I said holy cow, this really can't be happening. Again you have that decision, do I run north on West Street or do I run to the water. I said screw this, I'm just - - I'm going for a swim in the Hudson. That's where I'm going to run. It hit this time, but the difference was when it hit was because we were outside, it was just a deep dark gray rather than pitch black. Things were hitting us, but it was more dust, just more of the construction dust at this point.
I was still running but I couldn't see and we were tripping and while we were running, I thought I lost Chief Basile this time because we were running side by side. I later found out that he actually ducked into a doorway, but I just kept running until I hit North End Avenue again and then all I did was I just took a sharp right and it all just sort of just

M . STONE
passed me. I was standing there almost in the clear. Everything was much thinner, the dust and you could breathe over there.
We were sort of safe at that point. That's when Chief Kowalczyk emerged. He had come around from the other side. Chief Gombo was there. Chief Basile was there. We found out that he ducked into the doorway. We were a l l sort of reassembling then. We were going to start moving up to Stuyvesant High
School, and I said to him, I said I don't think that's far enough north for us. I said we really need to move this thing north.
We a l l just kicked around where we were going to go. I said why don't we just go up to the piers.
I t ' s wide open, and Chief Gombo agreed that that would be a good plan, that we could start reassembling up there and try to figure out who was dead or alive, because we knew there were going to be numerous deaths at that point.
You are running into so many people during the time through the whole thing. I mean I can't even really remember how many people I saw. At that point we started -- the MERV was over at North End Avenue and Vesey. I don't even remember the building number. I

M . STONE
think it was a hotel actually. We started putting together a triage area over there and we ended up moving it. MERV relocated.
I walked up towards Murray Street and then I walked up to the West Side Highway and I just turned around and looked back at the Trade Center and I said oh, my god, because I'm sure that everybody has heard a million times, whoever in their right mind would have thought that the World Trade Center would ever fall down.
I was at the first one, the first incident in '93. I think we were all lulled into really a false
sense of security that they couldn't take it down with a bomb, that this would never happen. A lot of emotion hit me at that point. I saw Rabbi Birnhack at that point. He said a prayer for me.
I started walking north on West Street. I didn't know how far I was going to go, but I was -- I just didn't know what I was going to do at that point.
I didn't know what my thoughts were. I was just sort of in a daze. Two 110 story buildings fell on my head so to speak. I was trapped before. I don't like using the word trapped because the fallen firefighters,
police officers, they are trapped, and they are dead.

M . STONE
That's not a good word. I was just entangled for a little while. Then I was able to thank god extricate myself from, you know. I mean I lost a lot of friends, a lot of people I worked with over the years, coming from SOD. I worked with a l o t of guys i n specialty units. Being i n Manhattan I worked with a l o t of
guys. The names of -- you work with a l l the Battalion Chiefs and all the first line Battalion Chiefs who got killed. Terry Hatton, from Rescue 1 who I know for many years, he got killed. There were many other guys, Dennis Mojica, all the rest from Rescue 1who we deal with on a regular basis, because being a Captain, a lot of first line supervisors deal with -Engine companies, but I knew these guys. I know a l o t of these guys. Couple of guys I grew up with.
One happens to be a police officer, Joe Viggiano, who was in truck 2. His brother John Viggiano was a Firefighter in Ladder 132. They are both s t i l l missing. Just a tremendous amount of people that I would find out about later.
)-
I was with my aide Gregg. We were just

M. STONE
walking north. He says what are we going to do. I said I don't know, just give me a few minutes. I got to get a few minutes. I just got to put this together in my head.
Then I met with Chief Hirth, who is Division 1 commander and Grace Cacciola, Lieutenant in the Division, were in the Academy or so I thought, in refresher. Right at that moment they appeared. I just grabbed Grace and I hugged him. We both cried. I didn't know they were there, they thought I was dead. Because just my personality and where I have been in SOD, they assumed that I was in the building. The only reason I got out was God has determined that it's not
my time yet.
We just held onto each other for a few
minutes. Then we said okay. What are we going to do. It was time to head up to the piers. We started regrouping. We head up to the piers and they started putting things together. At that point I was pretty well limping because my knee was hurting me and my shoulder. I was still in a lot of pain. So Chief Hirth actually ended up driving me in a command car. We had a command car. He drove me over to Bellevue Hospital where I was evaluated. We found out nothing

M. STONE
was broken. It was some just sprains and stuff. They took a chest x-ray because I must have eaten 50 or a hundred pounds of construction dust, asbestos, and everything else that was in the air that day.
They said - - Bellevue signed me off from work. I said that's great, but there is still a monumental job to do. I mean we weren't even close to getting a hand on anything at that point. So I took a few minutes. I washed my face. I cleaned myself up.
I put my turnout coat and helmet on. Back to the Trade Center I went.
That was pretty much the morning. I was there probably until 4:30, quarter to 5 the next morning, at which time I was released. That's the morning of September 11. Ironically, that's my sister's birthday. She is a police officer. She was off that day, thank God. Her birthday is never going to be the same, which is just - - we are two years and 51 weeks apart. My birthday is a week later and it was a big thing.
I got home that morning and after I got on to West Street, early, before we walked down to Chelsea and I went to the hospital, a few interesting things happened. Everything happens for a reason, fate. My

M. STONE
wife, who is a Lieutenant on our job, she is EMS Lieutenant, she knew that I was there. Right after the first building collapsed, I picked up my cell phone along with that 450 trillion other people and nobody could get any cell sites and I said I got to try at least to let her know that I'm okay, because I'm sure she was going to be panicking.
My cell phone went through the first time. It happened again the second time and I called her and I said I'm okay the second time. My son was playing and I said don't bother him. We walked up to West Street, right after I saw Grace and I called my wife back and I said I need to talk to my son. He is just coming up on 3 years old. I said I need to talk to him and he is so innocent to the world and he just said, he said Daddy, what are you doing. I said to him, I said Daddy's at work now, but you know I love you. He said okay Daddy, I will see you later.
That was - - I have another son who is six months old, so I couldn't talk to him, but that's what got me through. That's what got me through. He still asks me every day, he says you know, is Daddy going to work. I says yes, Daddy is going to work. He says you coming home? And he knows. He knows that something

happened.
M . STONE
I ' m not quite sure he knows what and I pray to God that he never ever has to know for many years. God is good all the time. God brought me home to my boys. We go on. There was a lot of other stuff, reactions of people, direction that was given. Just happened to find out that the three initial crews that
I brought in made it out. People that were closer made it out.
I did see Carlos Lillo for a while. I remember he was looking for his wife. The last I saw him, he was s t i l l looking for her. He was outside somewhere. I don't remember exactly where I saw him, but I remember I talked to him because I happen to know him, because my wife worked with him at a station years ago. I pray for him and his family and Ricardo's family, all the other families. I pray for them every day.
It's just as a field commander, you play over the decisions you make every day. Did I make the right decision. I played it over a million times in my head and I said, I keep saying to myself I don't think given the same scenario tomorrow everything that I know in
a l l my years of training, my command experience, what

M. STONE
would I have done differently. I can't come up with anything, I don't think.
Nobody in the world, nobody ever would ever have thought these buildings were coming down. That's what we do. We go to lobbies and do triage and upper floors and do forward triage. We just make decisions. I hope I made good decisions. I know that thank God, nobody who was under my command that day suffered any ill effects. I know because I researched that everybody went home okay at the end of the day. That was pretty important to me.
There's a lot of other things that go through my head, but that's pretty much the bulk of what went on that morning.
Q. Anything else you want to add, any final thoughts?
A. No, I just - - every day I just pray that this new war on terrorism - - I pray to God that our President, President Bush, gets us through this. Mayor Giuliani did a fantastic job, still does a fantastic job, I pray for our Commissioner, who is tired
himself. I see him every day on TV. I have seen him a few times in person since then. He is a tired man, but he has given everything. There is nothing more that he

M. STONE
can give and I just pray that God gives him - - continues to give him the strength.
Chief Nigro, who is now our Chief of the Department. Chief Cassano, Chief of Operations, Chief McCracken, Chief of EMS, I just pray that they continue to have the strength to take us through these really tough times. That senior officials. I knew Chief Ganci. He knew me. Not so much on a personal level but more professional. That I pray for their families, Commissioner Feehan, Chief Feehan. Recently with them just a week before, at a dedication for the Central Synagogue that was burned down a few years ago. Chief Burns. All the Chiefs, I pray that God gives them strength to take us forward and that if there was anything that could have tipped us off that this was going to happen, we find it and that we learn from it. I don't see any mistakes. We just have the strength as leaders; myself, that we go forward.
Good leaders and good commanders and God gives us that strength. So we will get through this. I'm sure we will. I just hope that history looks kindly on us. A lot of people and I don't even really includemyself,butalotofpeople. Isawstrongmen have to cry that day. I see strong leaders who are the

M. STONE
rock of this organization who are the backbone of this organization, get tired.
I just - - I pray God gives them a little break, that they can take a breath and step back and just get a break. They all need it. They are tired. They give their all. I just hope they find some peace and rest.
I guess that's about it.
MS. BASTEDENBECK: Okay. That concludes our
interview with Captain Mark Stone. Thank you for your time. The time is now 926 hours.
File No. 9110077
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
          CHIEF ULYSSES GRANT
   Interview Date:  October 12, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
U. GRANT 2
          MR. TAMBASCO:  Today is October 12th.
     The time is 1318 hours.  I'm Mike Tambasco
     of the World Trade Center Task Force
     conducting an interview into the events of
     September 11th at the World Trade Center.
     We'll be conducting this interview with
     Chief Grant.
          Chief, would you just be good enough to
     identify yourself and your command?
          CHIEF GRANT:  My name is Chief Ulysses
     Grant.  I'm currently assigned to the Fire
     Department EMS Bureau, EMS Division 5.
          MR. TAMBASCO:  We're in the conference
     room of EMS Battalion 43.
     Q.   Chief, if you would just be good enough
to give me your memory of the events.
     A.   To the best of my recollection, it
started out to be a normal day for me and my
aide.  Basically we were at Staten Island.  I was
doing some administrative work.  And I believe
the young lady that works also there with us,
Ms. Alice Suskowitz came in while I was in my
office and said Chief, did you hear, a plane just
went into a building at the World Trade Center.
U. GRANT 3
I said what?
          I'm in my office.  I have a television.
I turn it on.  Sure enough, there was coverage of
the World Trade Center being struck with an
airplane.  We were all watching.
          My next thing was to a little more
carefully monitor the citywide radio.  I could
hear a lot of radio transmissions over the air.
I didn't necessarily associate it with a person,
but I could hear there was a lot of talking going
over the citywide radio.
          A combination of listening to the radio
and watching the events as they unfolded on
television, I said you know what, I've got to
make a decision here, it's either to go to the
event or, knowing the magnitude of this type of
event, maybe my resources might be needed at
headquarters or something of that nature.  I made
the decision to go to the event.
          Surprisingly we got there very quickly.
I think probably what assisted that was the HOV
lane on the BQE where you can jump right in and
make better egress in getting there.  The other
thing that I remember was that at some points
U. GRANT 4
along that HOV route there were police officers
there, I guess in an effort to direct traffic for
an event that had already taken place.
          So we got there relatively quickly.  I
remember we got as far as we could and got out of
the Battery Tunnel.  I remember there was a large
number of police officers right as we got to the
end of the Battery Tunnel, waving us on, come on,
come on.  We got through the tunnel.
          I remember we got to a point as close
as we could, and there were other emergency
vehicles responding.  We got north to west.  What
I remember is all of a sudden there was someone
like pushing us back saying go back, go back.  I
don't think that was in reference to either the
towers falling at that point; however, reference
to maybe some debris that was coming down over in
that area.
          So we pulled back as far as we could,
and we got out and pulled on our turnout jackets,
helmets, made sure we had radios, helmets, cell
phones, whatever normally we would take to an MCI
response.
          I remember as I was walking up I
U. GRANT 5
noticed Chief McCracken several feet ahead of me
walking as well with his lieutenant.  Lieutenant
Cronin was also there.
     Q.   That was up West Street?
     A.   Walking up West.  We were walking up.
You know you could see what was going on and we
were going in that direction.  We got to a point
where we saw several municipal ambulances there,
Hazollah members were there and there were all
sorts of voluntaries.  I'm not quite sure which
ones they were.
          At that point Chief McCracken had given
me some directions to start setting up a
treatment center, because we knew the resources
we had.  And we were going over some of the
safety issues like making sure people stay
together, making sure what officers we have,
taking on certain roles.  As a matter of fact,
Captain D'Amato was there also.  He had been
there a while.
     Q.   Chief, could I just interrupt and ask
you whereabouts was that, where this took place?
     A.   One of the points that I remember was
that Chief McCracken actually asked what street
U. GRANT 6
we're on.  At that point we looked and the street
sign was indicating South End.  The other street
sign wasn't necessarily visible.  However, I
think, you know, just looking at surroundings and
looking at this map, it was probably Liberty or
in that vicinity, one block over.
Q. Great.
     A.   Chief McCracken was discussing about
setting up this treatment sector.  Basically we
agreed to move it somewhat further back.  I was
walking with some of the Hazollah or the chief
representative of Hazollah to explain to him that
the people should stay together, let it be you
that I communicate with as responsible for
Hazollah, let it be Captain D'Amato for the
municipal and voluntary resources and so forth.
So we were in the process of doing that.
          The next thing I remember is I saw
people running in my direction, not even a full
walk up but just people running.  I said what the
hell, what are they running from?  I didn't have
a clue there.
          People talk about -- you know since the
incident they talk about hearing this loud
U. GRANT 7
thunderous sound.  To the best of my knowledge, I
don't remember hearing anything.  However, I do
remember seeing this loud, large cloud coming
about like it was turning a corner and coming in
my direction.
          So I also turned and ran.  What I
remember seeing when I was running was a Hazollah
truck.  It was open.  The back of the truck was
open.  Not that I had full conscious coherence of
what was going on, but I said you know what, let
me duck in here because there's stuff coming down
from somewhere.  Let me duck in here.
          So I jumped in the back of the truck.
There were other people there that jumped in the
back of the vehicle with me.  I remember it
immediately filling up with stuff and you hear
the tingling of the particles and whatever it was
that was coming down, just filling it up, filling
it up.  At some point I couldn't even see in
front of me.
          I do remember someone kicking at the
door trying to get the door of the vehicle open.
There was a problem in opening it, but it
eventually opened.  There was someone in front of
U. GRANT 8
me.  I was feeling my way.  And I latched onto
their belt in the back.  To be quite honest, I
wasn't letting go because I couldn't see.  I had
no concept of what was going on.  I just held
onto that person.
          He went forward; I was right behind
him.  Within a few -- I don't know, maybe 30 feet
or whatever it might have been, we more or less
fell into a building.  It seems like we just fell
into a building, rolled in.  We all were covered
with dust.  I had no idea still what the hell was
going on here.
          I remember a young -- it looked like a
young black woman.  She looked like she was a
secretary of some sort.  A gentleman was at his
desk working, like where did you people come
from?  We just stumbled in.
          I remember being very confused, not
knowing what happened and anyone that was around
me, I no longer saw.  So one of my first thoughts
is where the heck is my aide?  Where is she?  She
was here a few minutes ago.  Where is she?  And
the people around me, where are they?  What
happened?
U. GRANT 9
          The dust settled somewhat.  I
started -- there was a Hazollah member there.  He
started brushing his clothes off and trying to
get rid of some of the debris on his helmet and
clothes.  Then I remember saying wait a minute,
we can't stay here.  I don't see anybody I know.
It's not a good idea, I don't think, to stay
here.  We've got to move on.
          I wasn't sure if that was the right
thing to do, but I decided to go out.  And as I
went out, I walked several feet and I remember
now meeting an EMT who I now identify as an EMT
that works for me out at Battalion 22, Rothmund.
And he said Chief, I don't know, where are you
going?  I said we've got to go.  We can't stay
here.  We've got to go.  He said well, if you're
going to go -- and he gave me a bottle of water
and some paper towels.  He said wet these down
and cover your mouth if you're going to go.
          I traveled a little further, wandered
up into this deli.  I remember seeing fruit
around, the people not comfortable with what was
going around.  The owner was there, but there was
a lot of confusion.  I stayed there very
U. GRANT 10
momentarily, found out where the exit was to get
out of there, and moved on.
          The next thing I know I found myself
over in what I believe now was the Battery Park
area.  We were there.  A lot of people had begun
to gather.  I remember someone walking up behind
me who later was identified as Lieutenant Cronin.
I said where's Chief McCracken?  She said right
now I don't really know.  I said where are you
going?  She said Chief, I'm following you.
          So we walked a little bit.  There were
a large number of people there.  One of the
things I distinctly remember was that Al Simons,
who was the supervisor of Maimonides Hospital,
had also been hurt and he was on a stretcher.
There were several members of Hazollah working to
get him out of the location of where we were.
          It was a small boat, if you will, that
approached at the water.  However, I'm looking
over it and looking at what they were trying to
do.  I saw it was at least 30 feet separating him
on the stretcher and being able to go into the
boat.  I remember distinctly telling them:  You
can't do this, no, no, don't lower him in there,
U. GRANT 11
don't even think about it.  So they brought him
out.
          I then saw Chief McCracken.  He was
coming around and he was speaking.  What I do
remember is I said to him:  Chief, what do we do
now?  What are we going to do?  He said you can't
go anywhere.  I said we can't stay here.  He said
look over there.  If you look back there, you
could see the large dust and debris falling from
the first tower.  The only other thing you could
see was the water.  We weren't going in either
direction.
          So we were there.  Then I remember the
people that were around me were very panicky.
There were a lot of civilians that were very
panicky.  What they had told them to do was lay
down, cover your heads and remain calm.  It seems
like they followed that direction because we were
the only ones giving any directions.
          So they basically followed.  They laid
down, and they were crying and very upset.  I
remember a lady next to me being very upset and
saying we're going to die, we're going to die.  I
said we're not going to die; we're going to be
okay.
U. GRANT 12
          There then was a larger vessel -- I
don't know if it was one of the ferries or not --
that came close and someone there of authority
made the decision that it should be women and
children first to get on the boat and go.  It
sort of like reminded me of the movie the
Titanic, and that's what it felt like.
          What we were doing at that point was
looking in the crowd and calling up women that we
saw with children or whatever, and we were
putting them on.  We were handing them over to
the guys that were on the other end of the boat,
putting them on.
          We did that for several minutes.  I
remember a woman that looked like she was either
Latino or Hispanic but, somewhat bewildered.  You
could see that there was a communication gap with
her and what was going on.  So I went a little
bit into the crowd, and I pulled the woman with
the baby carriage out and got her on.
          All this time there were people
pressing up real tight against me, against me
real tight.  I remember that.  So I went after
U. GRANT 13
that was done and I sat down.  It was like a
little bench area, not benches but a grass area
with some sort of cement covering.  I sat there
for a while.
          I started being short of breath.  I
just was gasping for air, gasping.  I sat there,
figuring the best thing to do at that point was
just be still for right now.
          I heard like a noise coming up out
behind me, and it was a Lutheran ambulance that
came out of nowhere.  And they proceeded to load
Al Simons, who was the supervisor for Maimonides.
I remember another gentleman sitting in the
ambulance who had an apparent leg injury, and it
was starting to throb and hurt.
          There was a big, heavyset paramedic,
white pants, blue shirts, very stocky guy, and
another person.  Someone said Chief, you've got
to go.  You've got to get up in here.  They more
or less pulled me up into the back of the truck.
We started out slowly.
          I was under the impression, I guess
obviously with other people in here, we were
going to the hospital.  We got out.  We were all
U. GRANT 14
in confusion there.  I could see the guy being
flagged on.  They gave me oxygen and had me sit
in the corner.
          We got into the Battery Tunnel, and the
ambulance began to overheat because the guy was
slowing down.  The Battery Tunnel was at that
point full of all of the smoke and whatever else
was coming in.  I could see it just coming in.
The guy, you know, he had to shut down the AC
because it was overheating.
          Al Simon yelled at him:  Keep going,
keep going, keep going, don't stop.  Meanwhile I
don't think he supervised the Lutheran guys, but
he yelled keep going, keep going.  We got out of
the tunnel, and the next thing you know not long
after we were at Lutheran Hospital.  They threw
oxygen on me there.  I had a couple of them see
me.  I told them I'm fine.  I'm just having a
problem breathing, but I feel a lot better, I
feel a lot better.
          I settled down.  I saw Bill Killeps,
who was the ambulance supervisor at Lutheran, a
little later on.  He offered me some help or
whatever the case.
U. GRANT 15
          I remember seeing he looked like a
priest or a fellow at the phone, one of the phone
booths near the treat -- I guess it's the asthma
treatment area.  It looked like he got through on
the phone.
          As soon as he hung up, I jumped up,
because my impulse was to call my wife and let
her know that I'm here, I'm okay, because I know
she would be watching the news or heard about it
and things were going to go through her head.  So
I said even if she just hears my voice she will
settle down.
          So I was able to call out.  I got
through.  Settled her down.  I'm all right.  I'll
be here.  I couldn't see very well.  In fact, I
needed to flush my eyes at some point.  After I
felt better, they took the oxygen off, basically
said, okay, Chief, go on.
          I wandered outside.  They were
periodically bringing people in from the event.
There was a park across the street, and no one
was in the park.  They had cordoned it off,
quarantined it off.  I went into the park and sat
down just to get my thoughts.
U. GRANT 16
          All along one of the things -- I did
have my cell phone.  I had not accounted for my
aide yet.  So I called her home, and I guess it
was fortunate that I got no answer, because
sometimes her daughter is home.  Fortunately I
got no answer, because I guess I wanted to know
where was she, but I didn't know and it would
only be frightening for me to say well, I, her
supervisor, don't know where she is.
          So I called her division and I spoke
with Alice who's there, the PAA.  She said oh,
Chief, you're okay.  I said I'm going to be okay.
Have you heard from Mary, my aide.  She said
Chief, we haven't heard from her.  I said my
phone's working, my pager seems to be working.  I
was getting pages.
          I sat in that park for a while, just
kept flushing my eyes with water.  There was an
ambulance crew that gave me some water.  I kept
flushing my eyes out, like that.  I finally got a
page from Alice.  I called her.  She said Chief,
we found Mary.  I said thank God.
          So I said where is she?  She said stay
there, she's going to come pick you up.  I said
U. GRANT 17
how the hell is she going to pick me up?  In
what?  What is she going to pick me up in?  I
thought for sure the car was destroyed.
          So sure enough, I guess about 40
minutes later, here she comes pulling up in the
car, looking like crap, all kind of shit on it,
and she comes out, all dusted up.  I said thank
God you're okay.  I got in the car, went in and
washed off in one of the other areas at one of
the battalions.
          And that was the day, a very
unforgettable day.
     Q.   Unforgettable, I'm sure.
     A.   I think back many times and I consider
all of the other things going on in my life right
now and I said God was on my side this day and I
should be thankful for that.  It was really some
experience.  I'll never forget it.  I'm sure I'm
not the only person.  I hope that things work
out.
     Q.   All right, Chief.  I thank you.  Is
there anything else you can think of you'd like
to add to that?
     A.   No, I think that pretty much covers --
U. GRANT 18
summarizes that day.  I don't remember looking
directly at the buildings coming down.  I know
that when we first got there that day.  I saw
what I thought was a rag or something falling off
one of the buildings.  The person standing next
to me said Chief, that's a person.  But you could
see it was burning.
          But I remember distinctly people just
running, running, wondering what's going on.
Then it wasn't long after that there was debris
and stuff coming down from the World Trade Center
had descended upon us.  The only choice was to
run.  I don't think it was a question of saying
what do I do next.
          The only option was to run at that
point and take cover.  That's what I believe most
people did.  I guess some had more advantage
being either closer to a building or a place
where they could get into, and some of us were
just left wide out in the open.
          There was a Hazollah truck, and I
remember diving in there and some other people
dove in with me, still not knowing what was going
on around us.
U. GRANT 19
          So I'm thankful and thank God I'm here
today.  I thank God for the people who have
survived it.  My heart and thoughts go out to
those who didn't because those people came to
work that day, whether they were civilians or
firemen or EMS workers, not knowing what to
expect, certainly no expectation of losing their
life that day.  I guess it's just the will of
God.  That's about it.
     Q.   Once again, Chief, I thank you.
          MR. TAMBASCO:  This interview is
     concluded at 1337 hours.

File No. 9110078
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW MARY MCMILLAN
Interview Date: October 12, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason

MR. TAMBASCO: Today is October 12. My name is Mike Tambasco. Assigned to the World Trade Center Task Force. We are conducting an interview today into the events of September 11 at the World Trade Center. The time of the interview starting is at 1254 hours.
Q. Our interview today is with - -
A. Mary McMillan. I was assigned with Chief
Grant, car 65 on 9-11. We parked our car on the West Side Highway.
Q. If I could ask you, could you start with when you first heard about what was going on, when you were responding?
A. Okay. We were at Division 5 on Staten Island. They heard the call, Joe LaBarbera, who was
(inaudible). He heard the call and the Chief was listening to it also. He said Mary get your coat and let's go. So we left. I was driving.
We followed - - took the BQE to the tunnel and parked on the West Side Highway. Someone told us don't come any further, stay where you are, and we did.
There were other cars behind me. We couldn't go any further, so we got out and walked over to the command post, where we met Chief McCracken. I believe that was

a t South End and Liberty Street.
While I was there I was asked by Chief Grant
to gather a list of resources. I didn't have a piece of paper with me, so I got it from Kathleen Zarr. I met her and I met also Mala Harrilal and Brian
Pastore. I don't recall who else I seen there at that time.
As I was gathering it, I was saying to Mala, that I'm looking up at the building and I said to her, this is going to fall. I said we should get out of here. This is going to fall. She says I know. I think we are in the wrong place. I tried to tell Chief Grant and Chief McCracken I think i t ' s going to fall, but they were so busy talking among themselves, I didn't have a chance to tell them what I was feeling.
I think I should have shared with everyone, but when I felt that way, I looked around me. I gathered the resources, but I'm thinking what do I do when this thing falls. I looked around me and I saw this building on my right. It had the glass bottom doors and I just made reference to it in case god forbid, anything happened, my plan would be to run behind that building, grab my jacket over my head and just stay there for a while.

Sure enough, after my thoughts travelled through my head, all I heard was run and I heard the sound, a sound - - I can't really describe it. It was an unusual sound. Then they are saying run, so I started to run and I looked back and I saw this white smoke just moving in this boiling motion towards us and I was like oh, my god, what's going on. I was scared, I was frightened and I'm running and everybody's running.
Someone grabbed on to my hands. I don't know who it is. I was dragged, literally dragged on the ground. I said let me go please. Let me go. Let me go. Soheletmego. Igotuponmyfeetandhesaid get the fuck in here now. I went in there. I didn't want to go in there because I'm thinking this thing that's falling down is going to crash the glass that surrounds this building.
So we got under there and I just broke down in tears, and the debris, I was covered in debris at that time. I ran inside and they closed the door. I stood by some console table. I took my helmet off and I said oh, my god we are going to die. We are going to die. I was so afraid and then they said shut up. Shut up. Stop saying that.

Then it calmed down somewhat and everybody started leaving the building. Now we are not making any friends, everybody is just trying to get out. I was like oh, my god.
I don't think they had a plan. What's going on with them.
Q. You lost sight of them completely?
A. Yes. So when I got out I walked, looking in the area where I left them. Because I didn't look back or anything. I just ran and I didn't see anyone. Everybody is looking for everybody. Everybody is covered in this white dust. You can't breathe. You could hardly see. You are looking for water. There were people out there giving you bottles of water.
They said wash your face, wash your hands. It felt like something was sticking you when you washed your face. I guess little pieces of glass, because when I got home also. When I washed my face. There was something sticking me. Like glass in my face.
So I got the water and I washed my face and my hands and I started looking for them. I walked up South End I believe. I was walking in the opposite direction now and I saw Chief McCracken approaching
me. I said where is Chief Grant. He said oh, he is in

the store down the block. Just a couple of stores down. Just keep walking.
So I decided to walk just to look for him and I looked in every building I passed. I didn't see
him. I just saw a lot of people. I don't recall who I saw. I asked them if they had seen Chief Grant. Everybody is no, no, I didn't see him. I don't know.
So I walked further, further back and forth, back where I was, further, looking around and up the stairs to some store above there. They says come, wash your face off. I said I'm fine. I'm good. Leave me alone. They gave me water. I took the water and says
here, you
and I put helped me out.
Then water, because
need a mask, take a mask, they gave me a mask that on and that helped so much. That mask
I walked over to -- going towards the
everybody says get towards the water. It's better over there. So I started to walk towards
the water and I walked up and down looking for him. I said anybody seen -- I asked, because I think I seen everybody who I met there initially except Chief
Grant. Then I walked around the water and I saw Kathleen Zarr again and she says let's go in this building and set up triage for anyone with asthma,

which she
looked so Q.
A. radio and
did.
I met Captain D'Arnato. I met him and he out of it, like he wasn't there.
Dazed?
Dazed. I said to him let me borrow your
I intercepted transmission asking for Chief didn't know where he was and he says take
Grant. I
it. I said are you okay? Didn't answer me. Just sat there in a daze. They did triage and the next thing you know we saw a boat coming in and they says get back in the building, because the other building was coming down now. This big ball of smoke overcame the building again and we stayed inside there and did the triage.
We tried to make some sense of what's going on. Everybody is talking and confused, people with their children, with their dogs and their family and the boats started to come closer to the water.
I don't know where I was then. But the boats came over. There i s a place.
Q. I think there is a little dock.
A. At a corner, a very corner, like a corner, corner, and a building i s here and the water i s circulating here. And there is a corner. People could walk down towards like --

Q. Like a pier?
A. Like a pier. Walk down towards it and then the boats were there and we directed the people to get on to the boats.
Q. It was civilians, it was everybody?
A. Civilians, people from the building, children, anybody who wanted to get out of there.
After that I saw Chief McCracken again. I said did you see Chief Grant. He said no. I said have you seen him at all. He said yes, I saw him. He's down that way.
He is okay. He is okay. I think that I was just being pacified at that moment, because I don't think he seen him, but when I met Chief Grant he told me he did see him one time.
After that I saw -- who was it? I don't recall who it was that drove me on the gator, that drove us on the gator over to a much better area. We are getting further away from the building.
Q. Further down south towards the ferry terminal and stuff?
A. Yes, closer there. There was like a park, a park like area. You could sit down and you know, benches over there. I met the Chief, Chief Villani was there, then I saw Captain D'Arnato over there also. We

were talking and I says can't anybody just ask, somebody just tell me what do I do to find out if he's okay. He says he is fine, Chief McCracken told me he is fine. I said Chief Villani what do I do. What do I do to find out. I have no phone. My phone is not working. I don't know what's going on. He just took Captain D'Arnato's radio from me at that point and never said anything to me.
Then they took me over to the ferry terminal where the command post was set up and I sat there for a while. I went and cleaned up in the bathroom, but I went back out. I went back looking.
Q. Back north up to go looking for him again?
A. To the same spot. But I went in and out. I went in and out of the streets looking and nothing. I did that maybe about three times from the command post and back there. After that I stayed there, because after receiving like numerous pages from Division 5, I didn't answer it, I think it was Alice, just wanting to know hey, are you okay. So I didn't bother.
I settled down. I calmed down a bit and that's when I made the phone call to Division 5 and Alice told me that Chief Grant was admitted at the hospital and he is okay and he just wanted to know if

you were okay. So now they heard from me, everybody was fine.
After that, I said to her, just tell Chief Grant I'm going to bring the car. I left a whole lot out. I ' m going ahead of myself.
Q. That's okay.
A. I said tell Chief Grant stay there. I'm coming. That's all I said and I hung up. I had at some point when I walked back, one of those times I walked back to the area. I moved the car, it was filled with debris, you couldn't see anything and the cars were coming back and forth just covering you i n more debris.
I turned the car around, I put it in a different direction. At least I said if you see the car in a different direction you will know that I'm alive, because I'm the only one with the other key. So I cleaned the car out somewhat, and I drove over to Brooklyn. The Brooklyn Bridge? Yes, the Brooklyn Bridge, and I made it over and I went to Lutheran Hospital and I saw Chief Grant. I left the scene entirely.
Q. What hospital was that?
A. Lutheran Hospital. That was it. When that

debris fell and I first ran into that building, I didn't think that I would make it out alive. I never thought I would see the next day. I practically gave up hope, thinking that this i s it, this i s my destiny. Here I am. Take it. I'm giving it up all right now.
That was my story. I thank god I'm here
right now.
Q. Another quite interesting story. There has
been a whole l o t of them. There really have been,
yes. Is there anything else that you can think of that you would like to put into this?
A. Not really.
Q. Okay.
A. I never even seen Mala or Frank to see how
they are doing. I don't know even know if they are okay, but we didn't have any fatalities or anything. Q. Right. As far as I know I have been -- as
far as I know I believe both of them are okay. A. Oh, you know.
Q. Well, Frank I know, I'm pretty sure he is okay?
A. And Katherine, she i s home recuperating. MR. TAMBASCO: Right, so, but, yes, well,
okay, Mary, thank you for the interview. This

M. McMILLAN
interview is concluding at 1305 hours.
File No. 9110080
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER MICHAEL WERNICK
 Interview Date:  October 12, 2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
2
                      Wernick
          MR. FEILER:  Today's date is October 12,
     2001.  The time now is 1027 hours and this is
     Monte Feiler of the Fire Department of the
     City of New York.  I am conducting an
     interview with the following individual.
     Please state your name, rank and area of
     command.
     A.   My name is Michael Wernick.  I am from
Ladder 9, I am a chauffeur.  I was a chauffeur that
day.
     Q.   Firefighter?
     A.   Firefighter.
          MR. FEILER:  Of the New York City Fire
     Department.  We're conducting the interview
     at the Lieutenant's office located at the
     quarters of Ladder 9, Engine 33, regarding
     the events of September 11, 2001.  Also
     present is?
          MS. QUEVEDO:  Fabiola Quevedo of the
     Fire Department of the City of New York.
     Q.   What I basically need from you, sir, is
just a scenario of what happened when you got the
first alarm until the events surrounding the
collapse of the second tower.  Go ahead.
3
                      Wernick
     A.   That morning we pulled up and I was the
chauffeur and positioned the rig -- looking at this
map -- on Church Street, right behind Saint Paul's
Cemetery.  From there we got all the guys and then
we went into the north 1 World Trade Center.
Enroute there, lots of debris along Vesey Street and
we entered 1 World Trade Center.  We gathered in the
lobby and we proceeded to go up the stairs as a
group and as we were going up the steps -- over
time, we got separated in the stairwell and some of
us stopped at different floors.
     Mike Maguire and I stopped at the 12th floor
and we stopped at the 27th floor.  It was really the
27th floor was the highest level we attained on that
day.  We took a rest on that floor.  We saw various
companies.  Some of the members, after thinking
about it after a while, I did see 6 Truck on that
floor.
     Q.   Were you able to recognize any of the
firefighters?
     A.   None of the firefighters.  But I do
remember Captain Burke, Billy Burke, he's still
missing.  And then I do remember the 6 Truck, a
couple of the guys recognized me.  I saw them last
4
                      Wernick
week.  They said, oh, you were the guy lying on the
floor.  And his mask was next to mine, this guy sal,
form Ladder 6.
     We were there resting five, ten minutes.  We
heard reports that possibly more planes were coming
in our direction and that was from the FBI.  And
there was Battalion Chief on the floor.
     Q.   Do you know who that was?
     A.   I'm trying to think who it was.  I think
it was from Battalion 2.
     Q.   You don't know his name?
     A.   No.  And at that point we heard a loud
noise and the building shook.  It was like a rag
doll.  At that point we said, "We got hit by another
plane."  The indications were really poor at that
point.
     And then the Chief basically said, start
filtering down.  So we decided to go down rather
than up.  We went down one stairwell, I think it was
C, and we caught up with my boss, Lieutenant Smith
at that point and then around the 11th floor, it was
clogged up at around the 11th floor in that
stairwell, and someone on the 11th floor grabbed us
and said go down another stairwell.
5
                      Wernick
     Q.   What was it clogged up with?  Civilians?
     A.   Both firemen and civilians.  And at that
point it was actually quite lucky that we went to
another stairwell that was empty and then we made it
down to about the 5th or 6th floor and I remember
seeing Lieutenant Desperito because he used to be in
9 truck.  I ran into him on that floor.  That was a
very vivid moment in the stairwell, because he was
helping somebody out.
     Q.   A civilian?
     A.   A civilian.  And I think we passed 6
Truck.  They were in the stairwell with civilians as
well.  Mostly firemen at that point.  There really
was very few civilians.  I remember seeing Engine 5
somewhere along the way.  We made our way down to
the lobby which was blown out at the time from the
debris of the first tower that came down, the south
tower that went down.
     At that time we still didn't know that the
building collapsed.  We were still unaware.  We
thought we either got hit with a plane or that
thought it might have been a partial collapse from
the upper floors in our building.  We got into the
lobby and the lobby was completely blown out.  I
6
there.  And as we left the building we still didn't
know the first tower collapsed.  No clue that that
first tower collapsed.
     We made our way to the street and about 45
seconds out of the building the north tower
collapsed.  So we just made it out.  We got blown up
the West Side Highway, most of us, and --
     Q.   Who was in that group with you when you
left the building?
     A.   I think I was with B.J. Casey, a fireman
from Ladder 9.  I don't remember if Casey -- I think
Casey was from Ladder 9 and Mike Maguire.
     Q.   B.J. and Casey, those are nicknames or --
     A.   Firefighter Springstead and firefighter
Casey and Firefighter Maguire.
Q. Okay.
     A.   I think in the lobby I remember seeing
Firefighter Walz and Baptiste.
     Q.   All from your company or  --
     A.   Neither of them made it out.
     Q.   And that was 1 World Trade Center you were
in?
     A.   The north tower.  And then we sort of made
                      Wernick
guess from the debris, and we had to climb out
7
                      Wernick
it up the West Side Highway.  Well, we walked out to
the West Side Highway.  The minute we did that the
building came down and that blew us a few feet.
     From there on, you know, we had a lot of debris
in our eyes and face and we couldn't breathe.
Eventually I got up, walked around in a dust field
and eventually I was taken to Beth Israel Hospital.
     Q.   I just want to know, when you first got
the run, you said you were the chauffeur.  Did you
receive any specific instructions on where to stage
or where to go?
A. No.
     Q.   The alarm just came in of what, as far as
you are aware?
     A.   Well, actually when it came in Engine 33
went first.  They were like 9, 10 minutes ahead of
us and then what typically happens in the city is
when something comes in they wait for 9:00 o'clock.
You know, the dispatchers, because it all has to do
with money and overtime.  So at 9:00 o'clock the
alarm went in for us.  So then we proceeded down, I
guess it was on the fifth alarm at that point, with
no indication of where we were gonna go.  I knew we
were going to the World Trade Center.  You could see
8
                      Wernick
the hole in the building right out here on Lafayette
Street.
     Q.   So the first plane had struck, the second
plane hadn't struck when you were responding?
     A.   Right.
Q. Okay.
     A.   And then as we were going down there it
struck.
     Q.   Did you see it hit?
     A.   No, We saw the aftermath.
     Q.   When you got down there, where did you
park?  Where did you stop the apparatus?
     A.   I was going down south on Church Street,
against traffic on Church Street and I pulled up
right behind St. Paul's Cemetery.
     Q.   Could you mark that.
     A.   (Complied with request.)
           Instead of going -- normally when we --
Like when we went to the one, we went down the West
Side Highway, we pulled up over here.  As we pulled
out here, there was so much debris, the Lieutenant
said, "Just park it over here."  So, you know, this
cemetery, there was papers flying all over the
place, there were engines all over, plane parts,
9
                      Wernick
building parts, and then we proceeded to walk down
Vesey Street into the north tower.
     Q.   Okay.  Did your Lieutenant receive any
instructions from a Captain or a chief on where to
go or --
     A.   We just walked into the lobby and at that
point they probably got instructions to go as high
as we could climb.
     Q.   When you entered the lobby, did you treat
anybody?  Was there any civilians that you needed to
treat or any patients that you made contact with?
     A.   Not at that point, but at that point there
were a lot of bodies all around outside.  We were
Dodging bodies to get in.
     Q.   Were you asked to assist a particular
unit, either verbally or by radio?
A. No.
     Q.   When you exited 1 World Trade Center, do
you remember where you exited from?
     A.   Where we came in, in the northwest corner.
     Q.   Can you mark that.
     A.   (Complied with request.)
     Q.   That's where you entered.  And you exited?
     A.   The same way.
10
                      Wernick
     Q.   You said you made it up to the 27th floor?
A. Yes.
     Q.   How long do you think it took you to walk
up?
     A.   About a half hour.  Twenty minutes, a half
hour.
     Q.   Were there lights, any lights on?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Do you know the status of the elevators in
that building?  Were they running at that point?
     A.   When we first pulled -- I do remember when
we first came in one elevator was blown out.  That
was on the main floor.  We couldn't use the
elevators.  I don't know if the other elevators were
working.  I know that definitely one was blown out.
     Q.   How about the stand pipes?  Were they
working?
A. No.
     Q.   You said you weren't aware of the first
building collapse.
     A.   That's correct.  Most of the guys weren't.
     Q.   Did you have a handy-talkie with you?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Do you know, was it on the private
                      Wernick
channel?  Was it on a Manhattan frequency?
11
     A.   Just on the regular channel.
     Q.   How was communications?
     A.   It was pretty bad.
     Q.   At any time were you asked to change to a
different frequency?
     A.   No.
     Q.   Were you staying on the Manhattan
frequency?
     A.   I stayed on the Manhattan frequency.
     Q.   Is there anything else that you think is
important?  Any other people that you may have seen
that you recognized?
     A.   I remember Andy Desperito, Lieutenant
Burke, I saw Mannie somewhere, Mannie Devalle in the
stairwell at one point while I was coming down.  It
was the 6th or 7th floor.  He's from Engine 5.
     Q.   That was the last you saw of him there?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   What did it look like he was doing at that
point?
     A.   I think they went on the floor.  They
weren't in the stairwell.  I remember the door
opening on the floor and they were just like in the
Wernick
12
lobby of the floor.
     Q.   That was the C stairway you say?
     A.   At that point we changed over to B.
     Q.   That was the one that was less crowded?
     A.   Yes.  But around the 4, 5 or 6 floor it
started to get crowded.
     Q.   Civilians and firefighters?
     A.   Mostly firefighters.  But we were still
able to move.  But I know that there was no urgency
at that point trying to get out of the building.  It
wasn't like "Let's get the fuck outta here."  You
know?  This thing is coming down.  It was like
filter down guys and start to get out.
     Q.   Do you think anyone around you was aware
that the other building collapsed?
A. No.
     Q.   Is there anything else that you think is
important that you would like to add?
     A.   No.  That's pretty much it.
          MR. FEILER:  I want to thank you for
     spending time with us.  It's very important
     that we get this accomplished.  The
     department is appreciative.
          That concludes the interview at 1040
                                           13
hours and this concludes the interview.
Wernick
File No. 9110081
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       LIEUTENANT ROBERT LAROCCO
   Interview Date:  October 12, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
R. LAROCCO 2
          MR. FEILER:  Today's date is October
     12th, 2001.  The time now is 1102 hours.
     This is Monte Feiler of the Fire Department
     of the City of New York.  I am conducting an
     interview with the following individual.
          Please state your name, rank and area
     of command.
          LIEUTENANT LAROCCO:  Lieutenant Robert
     Larocco.  I'm assigned to Ladder 9 in the
     1st Division in lower Manhattan.
          MR. FEILER:  Of the New York City Fire
     Department.
          We're conducting an interview at the
     lieutenant's office in the quarters of
     Ladder 9, and this is regarding the events
     of September 11th, 2001.
          Also present is --
          MS. QUEVEDO:  Fabiola Quevedo of the
     Fire Department, City of New York.
     Q.   Okay, Lieutenant, you can go ahead.
     A.   I'll start my story on the morning of
the 11th, Tuesday morning.  I was off duty and I
had an appointment with a friend at 10:30 in the
morning.  So I took the train into the Village
R. LAROCCO 3
over here.  When I got off the train, I thought
to myself what should I do, should I go have
coffee with the guys in the fire house, which I
kind of do all the time.  It's kind of loud and
noisy.  Or should I do some like quiet time.
          There was a greasy spoon diner on
Second Avenue.  I figured I'd go have the
breakfast special over there, read the paper, get
served, have a couple cups of coffee.  I was
early, so I thought I'd kill some time.
          I was walking across town on Tenth
Street.  When I got to Tenth Street and Second
Avenue, right where Stuyvesant cuts in, there's a
church over there.  In front of the church,
there's kind of like a park.  It has trees out
there and benches.  They were setting up a green
grocer market.  So I stopped.
          It was a real nice day, clear day, nice
weather.  I was looking at the stuff that they
were putting out.  Now we all heard a plane that
sounded like it was in trouble.  So everyone
stopped what they were doing.  It was obvious
there was something wrong with the motors.  They
were like straining, and they were louder than
R. LAROCCO 4
normal.  Normally over Manhattan a plane flies
very high.
          We all looked in the sky and didn't see
anything, but then for six or seven seconds
flying out of the northeast, headed southwest,
was this jetliner, like the kind of thing you
would go on to go to Miami Beach or Vegas or
something like that.
          It was flying very low, probably about
350 feet.  As it passed over us, it wobbled, just
a little bit.  Then after six or seven seconds of
seeing it -- we lost sight of it, because there
were six-story tenements around us so that patch
of sky that we saw it for just lasted that small
amount of time.
          Anyway, I kind of thought to myself
that it was headed toward Newark Airport.  It was
going southwest kind of in the general direction.
I didn't think much of it.  So I started walking
to go where I was going to have breakfast, and
then I heard a dull thud; not an explosion but an
actual dull thud with a little bit of metal to
it.  I kind of stopped in my tracks and I thought
for a second.  I said nah.
R. LAROCCO 5
          I continued going for my breakfast.  I
crossed Second Avenue and started walking north
on Second Avenue between 11th and 12th Street.
At that point probably within a minute of the
thud, people started running out of the stores on
Second Avenue there.  They were saying, "Oh, my
God, oh, my God, a plane just crashed into the
World Trade Center."
          I kind of thought to myself that they
were making -- putting two and two together with
a low-flying plane, a thud.  I kind of thought
the worst-case scenario that it dropped a motor
or something on the west side or somewhere
downtown.
          I continued heading toward the greasy
spoon diner.  When I got like a store or two
before, a woman runs out of the store and she
possibly grabbed me by my arms; I'm not sure.
She looked me square in the face at very close
range, and she said, "Sir, sir, it's so terrible,
it's so terrible, did you hear, a plane just
crashed into the World Trade Center."  I told the
lady, "Lady, come on, get a grip."  She said,
"I'm not kidding around.  She said go inside the
R. LAROCCO 6
store.  They have it on the radio."
          She's looking at me like pretty
serious.  I said I'll humor this nut job.  So I
went into the store.  In the store there were two
guys with a radio, and they were intently
listening to it.  I stood there for like five
seconds and said, "Hey guys, what's going on?"
They said, "They're saying a plane crashed into
the World Trade Center."
          I thought for a second.  I went out on
Second Avenue.  I looked south on Second Avenue.
You normally can't see the towers from where I
was.  But going from west to east was a cloud of
white smoke with dust.  Actually I thought it was
a cloud at first.  It wasn't traveling fast, but
it was like a long cloud.
          Then I noticed that this cloud had like
a light to medium gray tint on the top of the
cloud.  I kind of thought to myself oh, that must
be a rain cloud.  Then all of a sudden the light
bulb went off in my head:  If that was a rain
cloud, the dark part would be on the bottom.  I
said something's wrong.
          So I jogged back to the fire house,
R. LAROCCO 7
which is 11 blocks.  As I turned on Great Jones
Street, I saw Ladder 9 whip out of quarters.  I
ran to the fire house.  There was no one there.
I stopped at the house watch, and I saw on the TV
the towers were on fire.
          So I called my mother from the
department house watch and I told her, "Mom, turn
on the TV.  The towers are on fire."  She said,
"Are you kidding?"  I said, "I'm not kidding
around."  I said, "Listen, I've got to go."  That
was one of my aces in the hole.  I know at that
point my mother started praying for me.  She knew
that I was probably in trouble.  I usually am.
          I had nice clothes on, and I wasn't
going to meet my friend at 10:30.  So I changed
my clothes.  I threw on my uniform.  I jumped in
my bunk pants.  I grabbed my turnout coat and
helmet.  I ran a block and a half over to
Broadway, and I flagged down a cop car.
          They stopped and just said, "Come on,
get in."  So I dove in the back of the cop car,
and they drove me down Broadway.  We stopped
somewhere east of the towers, possibly at
Broadway and Dey.  I'm really not sure of the
street.
R. LAROCCO 8
          I hopped out of the car.  There was
pandemonium.  There were emergency vehicles all
over Broadway.  There were a lot of people
running around in the streets.  Anyway, I knew I
had to make my way through to the towers.  As I
started walking onto the side street -- actually
as I stepped onto the side street, the strangest
thing I noticed was there was like three inches
of snow on the ground.  The snow was probably
pulverized concrete, sheetrock, loose tiles,
insulation, asbestos or what-have-you.
          As I started walking west, I was
looking at the towers and I was amazed.  On both
towers there was ten or more floors of fire going
on.  I wasn't aware the second plane had hit.  I
thought it was all from one plane.  I didn't
know.
          What I did at this point is I wanted to
make my way into the towers.  I was most familiar
with the south tower, so I figured I'd operate
there.  I was familiar with it because I covered
them before I got the spot at Ladder 9.  I
covered them at the 1st Division for almost three
R. LAROCCO 9
and a half years, and from time to time I worked
vacations in Engine 10 and Ladder 10.  They're on
Liberty Street directly south of the towers,
across the street.  So you were in and out of the
towers a lot.
          Plus during the latter part of the
Clinton administration, Clinton and Gore would
come to New York City on a pretty regular basis
and they needed someone to man the Secret Service
command post at Seven World Trade Center.  So I
would get that assignment pretty often.
          You would get, needless to say, a
couple of coffee breaks during the course of the
day, because they were long tours.  What I would
do is I would walk around the area, Seven World
Trade Center, the towers, look around, just kill
some time.  So I kind of had a good map going
there in my head as to where most everything was.
          So anyway, I approached the towers from
Church Street and Liberty Street moving west on
Liberty Street, staying on the far side of the
towers and looking up.  Stuff was falling off the
towers every once in a while, panes of plate
glass or metal or what-have-you, concrete.
R. LAROCCO 10
Sporadically every once in a while you would
catch a jumper going down.  My mission was to get
into the tower.  I really couldn't concentrate on
watching them take the whole ride all the way
down.  So I kept moving.
          Anyway, when I got across the street
from the towers, somewhere near the quarters of
10 and 10, I wanted to make my way up against the
south tower.  I ran as fast as I could, looking
up, making sure I didn't get hit with anything.
So I had to zigzag when I saw something coming
and had to keep looking down, so not to trip over
anything.
          There were people's unidentifiable guts
here and there on Liberty Street.  The one thing
that I remember most was that I noticed forearm
and hand.  It looked like a young woman.  Her
hand was manicured, and she had a nice ring on.
I looked at it for like an extra half a second.
I was amazed how it kind of looked fake, like a
mannequin.
          Anyway, so I continued to the building.
I got up against the south tower.  I put my hands
on the building, and I sidestepped, looking up,
R. LAROCCO 11
trying to avoid getting hit from stuff that was
falling.  Ahead of me between where I was and the
doorway that I wanted to get into, two people
jumped from an upper floor, and they hugged all
the way down.  When they hit the ground, I could
just see like a smash, not realizing the damage
they had done to themselves.
          For me to get to the building, when I
came upon these people, I had to step over them,
do my sidestep.  I actually had to do a little
hop over, it was kind of wide.  The two people,
both their legs were blown off and one of their
heads was smashed into a thousand pieces of
Jell-O.  There was nothing left of it.  You
couldn't identify whether it was male or female
either.
          Anyway, I made my way into the door of
the south tower soon after that, and I ran past
the fire command post on the south end of the
south tower.  It was one or two of the usual fire
safety directors, hired by the World Trade Center
over there.
          So I ran to the north end of the south
tower, and there's two escalators going down.
R. LAROCCO 12
They're stopped.  There's civilians
self-evacuating.  There's a conga line coming
down.  At the bottom of these stairs was Chief
Donald Burns, with his aide, and trying to make a
handy talky transmission or listen to a handy
talky transmission.
          I ran up and I kind of stood in front
of him.  When he was finished with what he was
doing, he looked up at me.  I said, "Chief,
Lieutenant Larocco, Ladder 9.  I'm at your
service.  What do you need, sir?"  He said,
"Lieutenant, I need  company men here ASAP."  I
said, "Yes, sir."
          I turned back and I ran back to the
south end of the south tower, but I stayed inside
the doorway.  I had the doorway open, and I could
see units going across Liberty Street from the
east end to the west end, and I was calling out
to them as loud as I could.  It's like they
didn't hear anything.  They were just on their
mission going.  I thought to myself the only way
to get their attention and get Chief Burns a
company would be to run back across the field of
fire.
R. LAROCCO 13
          What I did was I noticed on Liberty
Street there was an arc foot path, possibly about
eight to ten feet wide.  So I kind of looked up,
made sure I wouldn't get hit, and I ran towards
this foot path.  I used that for cover to get
across Liberty Street.  I ran into Rescue 4 with
Kevin Dowdell.  That's a lieutenant.  We were
firemen together at Rescue 2 for many years.
          I said, "Kevin, Chief Burns needs a
company of men ASAP, north end of the south
tower."  He goes to me, "Rock, I've got orders.
I've got to head toward the west command post."
So I wished him well.  I saw every guy on Rescue
4 that was working that day.
     Q.   Do you know their names?
     A.   No, no.  But definitely Kevin Dowdell
was the --
     Q.   Chief Burns' aide, did you recognize
him?
     A.   No, not at all.
          MR. FEILER:  We're going to stop the
     tape at 11:15.
          Restarting the tape with the same
     people:  Fabiola Quevedo, Lieutenant Larocco
R. LAROCCO 14
     and myself, Monte Feiler.  It's 11:18 hours.
     Q.   Go ahead, sir.
     A.   After making contact with Rescue 4 and
there was no other units around -- by the way,
there weren't any -- I really didn't notice any
incoming FD apparatus parking on Liberty Street
due to stuff falling down.  Once again, I ran the
gauntlet, for lack of better terms.
          I went into the tower, and I went
towards Chief Burns.  When I caught him inside, I
saw he was surrounded by units.  Looking at the
area where he was, there was really no way to get
up because of people streaming down those
escalators.
          So I made my way around into the
Marriott.  Once in there, there was a command
post.  At the command post was Chief Galvin.
After a couple minutes, Chief Cassano showed up.
Units were reporting in one after another.  I
caught Chief Cassano's view.  I was waiting for
orders and he gave me like a stand fast signal.
          In those few minutes there was a pay
phone, and I called my wife, believe it or not.
I told her where I was.  I was with my gear.  She
R. LAROCCO 15
was really worried.  Actually I had to lie to
her.  I told her I was assigned to a first aid
station three blocks from the tower with people
doing first aid.  So once again I got another
person praying for me.  So there's another ace in
the hole going for me.
          Anyway, I hung up on her, and I went
back to the command post.  Units were reporting
in one after another.  One unit in particular
that I remember, Ladder 11, Mike Quilty.  I was
standing up against the counter of the command
post.  He came up to me shoulder to shoulder.  I
wanted to say hi to him.  He's a friend of mine.
In the speed and confusion the way things were
going, he just got his orders and took his men
upstairs.  By the way, Ladder 11, there were no
survivors from that tour from 9/11.
          Units were coming in fast up to the
command post, and orders were being barked out
fast.  They were getting sent up all different
staircases and making their way up as best they
can.
          Anyway, at this point Billy Spade --
he's from Rescue 5.  I knew him because I was in
R. LAROCCO 16
Rescue 2 for nine years.  He comes into the
command post, and he goes, "Hey, Rock, did you
see where Rescue 5 went?"  I said, "No, I didn't
see anyone."  As far as getting a transmission
over the handy talky, forget about it.  There
were so many units on the scene at this time
there was too much traffic on the handy talky
channels, it was like useless.
          Anyway, Billy and I, teamed up and we
made our way somewhere north on the first floor
where there was another command post going.
There I saw Chief Hayden, and there were some
units kind of standing fast.  Me and Billy Spade
went past them.  We went up to the second floor.
On the second floor we found the staircase on the
northwest side of the building.
     Q.   Are you still in the Marriott now?
     A.   We're in the Marriott.  People were
streaming down from the tower -- I'm sorry, we
came out of the Marriott and into the tower
through the interior.  So now we were operating
in the actual tower.
     Q.   South tower?
     A.   South tower.  All the interior
R. LAROCCO 17
operations that I've been describing were in the
south tower.
          Let me take a step back.  My wife
reminded me the other day, I said, "What did I
tell you when I called you up besides that I was
working at a first aid station?"  She said that I
told her that it's raining people, and she said
that I had like a hollow sound in my voice when I
said it.
          Anyway, fast forwarding back to Billy
Spade and I.  So on the second floor of the south
tower, northwest end of the building, there's a
stairway there.  People were evacuating down the
stairway, and I notice water streaming down the
stairway.  That's telling me that when the plane
hit it took out the standpipe in that particular
stairway.  I was just saying to myself by the
size of the plane and whatnot, it probably took
out most of the standpipes and fire suppressing
systems within the building.
          Anyway, like I said, people were
self-evacuating, and Billy and I went up a few
floors.  We separated ourselves by two floors.
What we were doing was, we were just like a Fire
R. LAROCCO 18
Department presence, telling people, "Calm down.
You're almost at the bottom."  We were reassuring
them.
          From time to time I would ask people,
"What floor are you from?  Hey, you guys, what
floor are you guys from?"  They would say 51.
Then I'd wait a few minutes.  "Where you guys
from?"  They would say 63.
          Anyway, at this point some ESU cops
were headed up the tower, and they had Scott
packs on and no turnout coats or anything like
that, just police uniforms.  One of the sergeants
sees me and goes, "Hey, Lieutenant, Lieutenant,
I've got to tell you something."  I said, "Yeah,
what's up?"  He actually pulled me to the side
and he whispered in my ears and said, "The
Pentagon just got hit with a plane."  I said,
"Get out of town.  What, are you kidding me?"  He
said, "I'm not kidding around.  I have good
information.  The Pentagon just got hit, I'm
telling you."  So at this point I kind of
realized this was a terrorist act, not an
accident.
          Anyway, from where I was stationed,
R. LAROCCO 19
like I said, I kept asking people what floors
they were from.  People started coming down from
88 and 89.  I identified those floors.  There
were people coming down from 89 and they were
dragging a woman with them.
          I said, "What's the matter?"  They said
the woman had a heart attack.  I said all right,
put the woman down.  I ran down, got Billy.  Me
and Billy ran up the stairs and carried the woman
down the stairs.  When we got to the second floor
of this particular staircase where the staircase
terminated, there were three Port Authority cops
there.  Right away they said, "We'll take her
from  you."  She was kind of heavy, and we were
happy to put her down and take a blow.
          So we laid her down, and Billy and I
turned to each other and were getting a game plan
going, perhaps 15, 20 seconds, and I turned
around and I looked at the cops and I looked at
the woman.  The woman was just like laying there.
The cops were just standing there.  They weren't
doing anything.
          I said, "Hey, guys, are you going to
help this woman?  What's going on?"  I noticed
R. LAROCCO 20
one of the guys was a sergeant.  I said, "Sarge,
did you radio for oxygen?"  He had a handy talky
on.  He kind of looked at me and shrugged.  I
said, "Come on, let's pick her up, we'll carry
her right downstairs.  We'll throw her inside a
bus, an ambulance."
          So one of the cops grabbed her from
under the arms and I grabbed her by the legs,
facing backwards, walking backwards.  We carried
the woman across the north end of the south tower
from the west side to the east side.
          And we got to those escalators that I
was telling you about earlier that Chief Burns
was earlier operating at the bottom of these
escalators.  There weren't that many people on
the escalators, and the escalators -- like I
said, the motors were stopped.  The stairs were
stationary.
          Just as I put my foot on the first
stair on the escalator, the building started like
shaking.  It was like a wave in the floor and a
real loud noise.  What we did was, me and the
police officer started running from the east
northeast end of the building toward the west.
R. LAROCCO 21
          Along my right side is the north wall,
and it's glass.  It's about 25 feet of glass, and
about every 25 foot there's a concrete column
there.  I know this is right at my right side,
like maybe three or four feet over my right side.
          Anyway, just to describe to you the
collapse of the south tower coming down, I really
wasn't aware there was a full collapse.  I
thought it might have been just a localized
collapse.  It was the loudest noise I've ever
heard in my life.  It was in both ears.  Kind of
like those rockets that they launch the space
shuttles with, it was like I had one going off in
each ear.  When I thought it was the loudest
noise I ever heard, every second it was just
increasing getting louder and louder and louder.
          I was running as fast as I could.  With
this noise getting louder and louder, also what's
happening simultaneously was light -- whatever
light we had was becoming darkness, like
obscuring and getting dark fast, like someone
pulling down the shades real fast.
          Anyway, it kind of sounded to me as if
the collapse was aimed right at me, right at my
R. LAROCCO 22
back.  I was running as fast as I could, and when
I felt that I was getting overtaken by the
collapse, where there was no hope, I threw myself
on my knees at the next concrete column that I
came up against I kept that on my right side.
          I held onto my helmet with my hands and
I yelled out, "Jesus, save me."  With that the
collapse came and I started getting buried.
Stuff was falling down.  It was loud and just
kept coming and coming.  It's hard for me to give
you a time frame.  I'm just going to guess and
say this collapse probably took about 30 seconds
before I caught some silence, the collapse
started to terminate.  Maybe it was a little more
than that.  I don't know.  There's no way of
telling.
          At this point I'm there and the first
words I said to myself -- it may sound strange
hearing this in the office, but I said to myself,
"Am I still alive?"  Because there was no way of
knowing.  I knew I had brain function.  Am I
already dead?  I don't know any of this.
          What I did was I said let me see if I
can move.  So I moved my left arm.  I said all
R. LAROCCO 23
right, that wasn't torn off.  I moved my left
leg.  I said all right, that wasn't torn off.
With that I went to take a breath, which
apparently I held my breath this whole time.  I
guess it's like some kind of survival instinct,
whatever you want to call it.
          I went to take a breath.  I took in a
mouthful of this thick dust of, once again,
pulverized concrete, sheetrock, insulation,
asbestos, whatever the heck was floating around.
          What I did there was I kind of hacked
out what I could and put my face underneath my
shirt.  I was breathing the air that was next to
my body, which was fairly fresh.  I opened my
eyes to look to see if I could see anything, and
I saw nothingness, like total blackness.  The
best way I could describe it to you is if I was
buried in my coffin with six feet of dirt thrown
on top.  Total absolute black.
          Anyway, what I did was I had some light
stuff covering me.  I really wasn't hit with
anything too heavy.  I kind of threw off whatever
was on top of me, and I dug myself out of this
pile of dust that I was in, like pulverized sand
R. LAROCCO 24
and powder, actually more like flour than
anything else.
          Being familiar with the buildings, I
knew somewhere along that north wall I would find
a doorway that would lead me to my next point of
contact, which I'll get into as we go step by
step.
          I started crawling along that side with
the glass to my right, which is my north side.
So I was headed west, still going in a straight
line, and feeling each pane of glass, as I was
hoping to find that doorway.  At one point I
stopped and I tried to kick my way through the
plate glass, but it really wasn't working.  I
just, undeterred, continued on, and did not go
back.
          Also what I did before I started
moving, in my turnout coat pocket I had a
tuberculosis mask.  So what I did was I took it
out of the package, and I was able to get on this
tuberculosis mask to kind of filter the air.  It
gave me a little bit of help.  Then I started
crawling.
          Anyway, like I said, I started
R. LAROCCO 25
crawling.  I hear people moaning from time to
time, but things were so critical, the situation
was so bad, that I didn't know if I could help
them.  I kind of felt that if I stopped to help
them I wasn't going to make it out.  So I thought
my best way would be to make it out and try to
get help for them from the outside.
          So PS, I'm crawling and crawling,
operating in total blackness, but being a fireman
on the job over 20 years, that's how you operate
a lot of times.  You operate on blank, you
operate on feel.  Knowing I had this straight
glass wall with these concrete columns every 25
feet, following that pattern was pretty simple,
believe it or not.
          So I followed the glass and concrete
until I found a door handle on one of these panes
of glass.  I pulled it, and I was able to open it
up.  What I did was I got on my knees, I opened
up the door, and I pulled the chock out of my
helmet.  I stayed on my knees --
          MR. FEILER:  Stop the tape at 1132
     hours.
          Resuming the tape.  Present is
R. LAROCCO 26
     Lieutenant Robert Larocco and myself, Monte
     Feiler, and Fabiola Quevedo.
     Q.   Go ahead, sir.
     A.   I was at the door, and I pulled the
chock out of my helmet and I chocked the door
open.  I got on my knees, and I faced the area
that I had just come from.  Like I said, I passed
people that were moaning.
          I called out to the people.  I said,
"You need to listen to me.  I'm a fireman.  I
have a door open here.  Make your way towards my
voice.  This may be your only way out.
Everybody, come on, you've got to try.  Make your
way towards this area.  Make your way toward me.
I'm here."
          Perhaps they were civilians,
firefighters or police.  I don't know.  Like I
said, it was absolute zero, and they had to make
their way towards something.  So I stayed there,
and I called out to them for a couple of minutes.
          It's funny, no one came.  But a few
days later I told my sister the story, and she
was like, "Stop the story, stop the story."  I
said, "Why, what's the matter?"  She said, "I was
R. LAROCCO 27
just listening to the radio.  There was some guy
trapped in the south tower, second floor, north
end.  He said the only reason he's alive is
someone said, 'I'm a fireman, I've got a door
open over here, you need to make your way to my
voice.'"  He kind of quoted me verbatim.  She
said the fellow said, "I don't believe that was
actually a fireman; it was an angel sent from
God.  That was my only way out."
          Anyway, getting back to my situation,
as far as I know, no one was coming.  So I turned
and I started crawling.  In the map that I had in
my mind, I knew I had to find these six
elevators, a bank of three on each side.  From
there I would find the escalator and be able to
make my way down to the first level and from
there try and get out.
          So what I did was I was crawling, and
once I got outside the doors, believe it or not I
had about a foot and a half of visibility.  So
things were starting to look up for me.  I just
started making methodical searches as I would
searching a fire apartment.
          Sure enough, I found what I was looking
R. LAROCCO 28
for.  I found the three I was looking for, and
just opposite them I found the second bank.  I
knew that I was very close to this escalator that
I was looking for that I needed to find.
          So what I did was I was feeling around
the area searching, and I found that rubberized
handle, whatever that is, and I felt the way it
looped up.  I felt for where the stairs were, and
I felt the tread of the stairs.
          I went down the stairs backwards, kind
of not knowing if the stairs were collapsed, so I
wouldn't take a header and fall down a few levels
should the stairs be missing.  God was watching
over that set of stairs, and I was able to make
it down to the first level.
          When I got down to the first level, I
started crawling around, looking for that way
out, that exit door.  I kind of realized
something, that I was in an area of the building
that I was unfamiliar with.  The best way to
describe it was it's some kind of service area of
the building.
          I thought to myself what should I do,
should I backtrack and make my way up?  Also what
R. LAROCCO 29
was going on while everything else was going on,
I was detecting more and more smoke in the dust.
Fires in that area were starting to take off.  I
thought to myself without the benefit of a mask
SCBA operating in that environment, I might get
overcome by carbon monoxide and would never make
it out.  So I figured I'd roll the dice and
really give the area that I was in at this point
a good once-over, see what I could do.
          I crawled around, and I found some
steps going down.  I went down these steps, about
five steps they were, and I was in a small little
lobby, and I found what I was looking for.  I
found doors with push bars.  So I stood up and
pushed the push bar to open up the door, and
nothing happened.  I thought to myself this is a
locked exit.  That's illegal.  It's funny the
things that you think about.
          So I tried a second time, and I pushed
the push bar, pushed the door and nothing
happened.  So I tried a third time, pushed the
push bar, and then I muscled the door as best I
could.  I was only able to get the door open two
or three inches.  I could see the sunlight come
R. LAROCCO 30
in through the door.  Through the dust I could
see the sunlight.
          I was able to look out the door, and I
saw that everything had collapsed.  There was a
lot of stuff that had collapsed in front of that
door that was blocking that path.  Like I said,
keeping in mind there's fires in the area,
there's smoke in the dust.  I had to make my way
out of these doors one way or another.
          I didn't have any tools or anything, so
what I did was I maintained the door in its open
position, about two or three inches that I was
telling you about.  I laid down on the floor, and
I put my feet flat on the door and, with my
hands, I reached one hand between my feet and one
hand above my right foot.  With my legs I pushed
the door with all the force I had in my body.  I
was pushing for my life.  Even pushing for my
life I could only get it open about ten inches.
Believe it or not, I was able to work my way out
that door opening there.
          Once I got out, I was somewhere on the
north end of the building.  I stumbled around.
My visibility was cut by 90 percent because I had
R. LAROCCO 31
all garbage in my eyes.  They were burning me.
Maybe it was like pulverized sheetrock, the
limestone.  My eyes were on fire.  I could see a
little.  I was aware that I was outside and
whatnot.  Perhaps I was a little bit stunned or
maybe in shock.  I knew I was outside.
          I kind of wandered for, I don't know,
maybe a minute or so.  I got a game plan going.
I knew that I wanted to head north.  So I headed
north for approximately a block.  I came to a
street intersection.  I really couldn't tell you
what street intersection it was, but I will tell
you this:  Just to my left hooked up was Engine
235.  They were hooked up to a hydrant, and the
chauffeur was running water through the pumps and
out the outlet.
          The chauffeur ran up to me -- it was
Phil Scarfi from 235 -- he said, "Lieutenant,
Lieutenant, I need to help you.  I need to help
you."  I thought to myself, gee, I must be badly
hurt and not know it.  Maybe I'm bleeding out or
something.  So he grabbed me by my turnout coat
and he pulled me over by the engine.
          What he did was -- he took my helmet off
R. LAROCCO 32
me.  I got my head and face underneath the water
and I started washing out all the garbage that I
had in my nostrils and in my throat, and I got to
wash out my eyes.  When I was through doing that,
I ran my head under the outlet of the water for
about a minute just to like cool down and get my
wits about me.
          When I pulled my head out, I was
drinking the water and everything.  I pulled my
head out and I looked at the water and the water
that was coming out and it was thick brown.  But
I tell you the truth, it was the best water I
ever tasted.
          Anyway, Phil Scarfi turned to me and
said, "Lieutenant, what should we do now?"  He
was there all alone.  By the way, everyone else
from 235 ended up getting wiped out.  I told Phil
Scarfi, "You got any gear with you?"  He said,
"Yeah."  I said, "Get your gear.  We'll try
reporting to a command post."  I said "We're
going to have to effect rescues.  We probably
have a lot of our guys missing."  In the back of
my mind, to tell you the truth, at that point I
knew things were bad, but I really hadn't
R. LAROCCO 33
realized the whole south tower had collapsed.
          So PS, Phil Scarfi, and I made our way
to the street intersection of Vesey Street and
West Street.  I stood on the west side of West
Street and Vesey Street facing south, and I was
looking for that command post that I thought
would be there and wasn't there.
          What I saw was total pandemonium.  I
saw policemen, firemen, running around, civilians
running, no real direction.  They were all
running in all different directions in a panic.
Some civilians were covered with blood.  I recall
that.  Looking up at the tower, another jumper
coming down.
          Anyway, while I was taking all this
in -- this was all, say, less than ten seconds I
was looking at all this -- I notice two things.
I notice my hearing -- I could hear everything,
but my hearing was like turned down, like the
volume was turned down so I only had about 10
percent of my hearing.  People ran by screaming.
I could hear them.  I was aware they were
screaming, but it wasn't loud.  But I could also
hear people talking.  It was kind of like weird,
R. LAROCCO 34
but that's what was going on between my eye
balls.
          Also the other thing I was aware of,
was that as I stand and I look, normally everyone
is moving at a pretty quick pace, and they were
in one sense, but my perception was everything
was moving in slow motion.  Just let me add to
that everything was crystal-clear.  I was taking
in everything that was happening and checking it
all out.
          Anyway, at this point three guys
started running toward me.  One guy believe it or
not -- it may sound weird, but to me an
Arabic-looking guy, American though.  And the two
guys that were chasing were yelling, "Stop, stop,
FBI, FBI."  One guy was a tall white guy.  He had
a long-sleeved white shirt and tie on.
          Anyway, I watched them chase this
fellow toward me.  Just as the guy was passing to
my right maybe about 12 feet away, the so-called
FBI guys, they get a hold of the guy, threw him
on the floor and put cuffs on him.  I'm watching
all this occur like in that slow motion thing.
          The next second I heard that loudest
R. LAROCCO 35
noise in the world that I was describing before
getting louder and louder.  What I did was I made
a 180, and I started running north up the west
side of West Street.  On both sides of that side
of West Street, there were FDNY rigs, one parked
one right after the other.
          What happened was I saw guys dive
underneath the rigs.  Although that seemed
tempting, I knew not to do that.  That was
something I didn't want to do, because I kind of
figured the tower was toppling.  Once again the
way the noise was getting louder and the
lightness of day was turning into the blackness
of night due to the impingement of the collapse,
I just wanted to keep moving.
          Anyway, I ran and you really weren't
getting too far before you got hit with the
collapse.  So in my mind, coming off Vesey Street
and West Street, I said if I can only make it to
the rear of the third rig, that's where I'm going
to stop and I'm going to get behind the rig and
hug the back of the rig so if I do get caught in
the collapse, which seemed inevitable, perhaps I
get caught in a void and maybe dig my way out or
R. LAROCCO 36
really not be crushed too bad, so if my body was
recovered it would be pretty much intact.  Weird
things go through your mind.
          Anyway, as I got to the rear of the
third rig, in my mind I was saying all right,
this is it, that's where I'm going to go.  Like I
said, it sounded like the collapse was going to
overtake me anyway before I reached the rear of
that third rig.
          When I got to the third rig, my mind
was saying stop, but my legs kept going.  They
wanted to make it to the fourth rig, which is
Ladder 118.  I really feel like God had his hand
on me, because from what I understand a concrete
column came through the front of 118 and came
down and would have ended up crushing me had I
chosen to seek refuge behind rig number three.
          Anyway, I started running.  Ladder 118
is a tractor-trailer.  It's the longest rig that
we have in the Fire Department.  I really didn't
feel like I was going to make it.  My legs were
really -- I was really cooking.  I was running as
fast as I could for 46 years old.
          Anyway, I made it to the back of Ladder
R. LAROCCO 37
118, thinking that I had zero time left, but in
actuality I had two and a half seconds.  In that
two and a half seconds, I got on my knees behind
the rig and there was an eye coming off the back
of the rig and I shoved by right hand inside the
eye and with my left hand I put my hand on top of
my helmet to hold my helmet on my head.
          Not thinking I had any time, the last
thought that came through my mind -- because, as
I'm saying, I had about two and a half seconds to
think this -- was I thought to myself death, I
said I just cheated you.  I said now you're going
to come back and get the payoff on me.
          With that, we got hit, and we got hit
hard.  The collapse came.  The noise level was
very, very loud.  Zero visibility again.  You
feel like the ground shaking and stuff flying
around.  Afterwards, days later, I saw steel I
beams got twisted and thrown around like
toothpicks.  There wasn't much too them.
          Anyway, so the collapse occurred.  The
time frame again, I'm going to guess and say
perhaps 30 seconds, perhaps longer.  I can't
really give you a time frame.  Not for a million
R. LAROCCO 38
dollars I couldn't give it to you.  That's not
really a lot of money nowadays, a million
dollars.
          Anyway, now the collapse stopped.  The
sound stopped.  Now once again, and I'm dead
serious, I ask myself am I still alive.  With
that I took a breath, because like I said I guess
that defense mechanism in a situation like that
you kind of like stop breathing.
          In that breath I took a mouthful, a big
mouthful, of that dust.  I kind of like hacked it
out as best I could.  Once again I stuck my face
underneath my shirt to get some fresh air.  I
took about four or five breaths, and during that
time, even though there was zero visibility, I
was aware there were guys all around because I
could hear them.  They weren't talking.  Some of
them were crying like they were children, and
others were whimpering like little babies.
          I took my fourth or fifth breath, and I
really feel like God gave me the words to say to
them.  I blurted out the orders.  I said, "If you
can hear my voice, you're still alive.  What you
need to do is get your faces under your shirts
R. LAROCCO 39
now.  Come on, do it, do it, get it done, go, go,
now, face under your shirt."
          With that I covered up my mouth again
with my shirt.  I took about four or five more
breaths.  I heard about half the guys stop their
crying and whimpering, but the other half were
still crying and whimpering.  So I took another
deep breath and I blurted out, "You guys want to
see your families again?  Get your faces under
your shirt.  Come on, do it now, get it done,
come on, faces under your shirt, everybody, come
on."  I covered up again.
          During the next four or five breaths, I
noticed no one was crying, no one was whimpering.
So now I took another deep breath and I said,
"Okay, guys, come on, the collapse is over.  What
we're going to do is, we're going to stay here
until we get some visibility.  Then we're going
to move away from the collapse area together.
Let's hang tight guys.  Stay right where you
are."  So now I took another few breaths, and
from time to time I would call out to the guys.
I asked if anyone was hurt, and no one was.
          MR. FEILER:  I'm going to stop the tape
R. LAROCCO 40
     at 1204 hours and switch to side B.
          Continuing the interview with
     Lieutenant Larocco and Fabiola Quevedo and
     myself, Monte Feiler, at 1205 hours.
     Q.   Continue, sir.
     A.   All right.  So there we were.  We were
behind Ladder 118, and guys were all around in
that area.  We waited for a few minutes, and from
time to time I would call out to the guys and
just try and instill some confidence in them, try
to keep even one guy from panicking, because I
know if one guy panics he can start a wave of
panic.  So I kind of tried to talk everyone
through it my best.
          After a few minutes, we got a foot and
a half, maybe two feet of visibility.  I called
out to the guys, "All right, guys, come on, we've
got to make our moves now.  Anyone need help?
Anyone can't move?"  No one answered.
          Underneath the truck there was an ESU
cop that where I was kneeling on my knees he had
his head like between my knees on the ground.
During the course of waiting for us to get
visibility, I was aware that he was there.  So I
R. LAROCCO 41
helped him up, and I helped up another
firefighter.
          We started moving away together.  We
started going north up West Street, and it was
very dusty.  There wasn't a lot of visibility.
Perhaps as we started walking we got about three
or four feet of visibility.  Everyone was aware
that there were guys around them, although you
really couldn't see anyone.  Of course the cloud
was kind of like a nuclear winter thing.  You're
walking through fallout.
          As we were moved further away from the
collapse area, and as time passed, you get more
and more visibility.  You get 6 feet of
visibility, then after a little more time maybe 8
feet then 10 feet then 12 feet.  Now you're aware
there were a lot of guys around.  You hear masks
going off, the pass alarm.  I stopped at a couple
of masks, but they were just masks.  There was no
one attached to the masks.
          Anyway, we walked north for a distance.
I can't really can't give you the distance, but
I'm going to try and tell you it was about five
blocks.  Then you were getting more and more
R. LAROCCO 42
visibility.  Then you kind of like stepped out
into the sunshine, almost like where this cloud
ended and fresh air began.
          Anyway, in this area there were a lot
of guys, guys running around.  You could see
everyone was covered with this dust and whatnot.
So I just figured let me continue north.  Maybe
they're making a staging area -- you figure they
would have a staging area a little further away
from the collapse.
          So I walked about a block north and I
hear "Lieutenant Larocco, Lieutenant Larocco."  I
look and I see Mike McGuire from Ladder 9.  I go
over to him, and say, "Good to see you, Mike.
You all right?"  He says, "Yeah, I'm all right."
I said, "Where's the rest of the guys?"  He said,
"I don't know."  I said, "You stay with me."
          So Mike stayed with me.  We walked
north about another block.  A guy starts calling
me, "Rocky, Rocky."  I look to my right, and I
see a firefighter calling me, covered with dust.
I look at him and say, "Who are you?"  He said,
"Smitty." Smitty, Lieutenant Smith, Ladder 9.  He
was working the day tour on September 11th.  I
R. LAROCCO 43
said, "Smitty, good to see you."  I was almost
apologetic for not recognizing him.  With him
were Donald Casey, Ladder 9, and Bert Stringstead
from Ladder 9.
          Bert and Donald were sitting on that
median in the middle of West Street.  Actually
Donald was like laying down.  He sat up, looked
at me, gave me like a peace sign, and he laid
back down.
          Lieutenant Smith said to me, "I'm
missing guys," this, that and the other.  "Who
are you missing?"  "I'm missing Mike McGuire."  I
said, "Here, one down, Mike McGuire is right here
with me."  I called Mike McGuire over.  Here's
Mike McGuire.  Who else are you missing?  He said
Jeff Walz, Ladder 9, Gerard Baptiste, Ladder 9,
and John Tierney, Ladder 9, our probie.  He had
just came to the fire house July 28th, so he was
only with us for about six weeks.
          I said, "All right, Smitty, stay here
with the guys.  I'm going to go back.  I'll see
if I can dig him up."  I tried to assure
Lieutenant Smith that --
          MR. FEILER:  Stopping the tape at
R. LAROCCO 44
     12:09.
          Resuming the interview with Lieutenant
     Robert Larocco.  Fabiola Quevedo and myself,
     Monte Feiler, at 1302 hours.
     A.   I tried to assure Lieutenant Smith that
the guys were more than likely okay, that they
probably just got fragmented away from the unit,
that there was a lot of confusion, guys running
in different directions, the dust making
recognition almost impossible at times.
          So I walked back north up West Street
into the area of the cloud.  I would see guys
walking out and I would try to look at them to
recognize their faces, but it was kind of hard.
Everyone was so covered with dust, you really
couldn't tell who was who.  It would be hard for
me to tell my best friend.
          What I did was I would call their
names.  I would call out, "Ladder 9, anyone from
Ladder 9?  Jeff, Jeff Walz, are you around?
Gerard, Gerard, where are you?  John, John
Tierney, are you around?  Where are you guys?
Come on, Ladder 9, where's the Ladder 9 guys?"  I
searched around as best I could, and I didn't
R. LAROCCO 45
come up with anything.  There were still guys
leaving the collapse zone sporadically, not too
many at this point.
          So I went back to Smitty, and I told
him I didn't find them but it doesn't mean that
something bad happened to them.  They're probably
attached to some other unit on the other side of
the collapse or somewhere around.
          So PS at that point -- my eyes started
burning again, and my skin was all irritated from
sweating and having I guess that pulverized
sheetrock that's made of lime and was making me
itch and everything.  I was looking for a place I
could clean off.
          Somewhere between those buildings on
Greenwich Street -- they have Greenwich Street
addresses.  I know my aunt lives in 310
Greenwich.  But between like between those
buildings, maybe between the second and third
building, there's a side street right off of West
Street.
          There's a hydrant that was opened up.
It was a shady spot, so up against the building I
went and I took off my helmet, my coat and my
R. LAROCCO 46
shirt, stripped down to the waist.  I got up
underneath the hydrant and gave myself a bath out
in the street and got all the stuff off me that
was itching me and irritating me.  I got myself
together.
          I saw a few guys.  I ran into guys from
Engine 5.  They were missing Manny, who to this
day is missing, more than a month later.
Otherwise their unit was intact.  I saw my buddy
Billy Walsh from Ladder 1, and we sat down in the
shade and we spoke about our experiences, what we
went through, for a couple minutes, anyway.  We
drank some water and got ourselves together.
          At this point I went back out on West
Street.  I walked around on West Street.  There
were a lot of guys.  There were guys that had
been there prior to the collapse.  There were
guys for the recall.  Units were reporting in,
probably a few thousand guys, maybe two, three,
maybe more 4,000 guys.
          There really weren't any orders for a
concerted rescue effort into the collapse zone at
that time.  We were hanging out for what seemed a
long time, perhaps an hour or so after the
R. LAROCCO 47
collapse.  The guys really didn't have any
direction.
          What I did was I walked -- I stepped up
on a median.  As I walked, I called to the guys,
"Come on, guys, get yourselves out of the sun and
into the shade and get some water in you.  When
we start a rescue effort, I need everybody here a
hundred percent.  Come on, guys."  Sure enough,
hard to believe guys actually listened, big
groups going into the shade and taking my advice.
          Anyway, time started passing, and
perhaps we were there for maybe two and a half
hours that passed.  There were a lot of rumors
going around, and I still really didn't believe
that the second tower was hit by a second plane.
          MR. FEILER:  Stopping the interview at
     1306.
          Resuming the tape at 1308 hours.  Same
     people present.
     A.   Like I said, the rumors were flying
around, and they turned out to be quite factual,
about the second tower getting hit.  Although at
the time I really didn't believe it until I saw
it later on television.  The thing about the
R. LAROCCO 48
Pentagon, the plane crashing out in Pennsylvania,
it was all coming into the picture that this is
something major going on.
          Anyway, so there we were.  We were in
the middle of West Street, a few thousand guys
waiting for orders.  It really wasn't happening
in a concerted effort.  Perhaps there were small
splinter groups of guys getting orders to do
things.  There we were, like vulnerable.
          Anyway, all this talk about planes
crashing and guys using words like "kamikazes"
and whatnot.  At that point we hear a plane -- it
turned out to be two planes, and they were
closing in on us and the motors were getting
louder and louder.
          All eyes went up to the sky and were
looking.  I kind of thought to myself as I looked
at guys running for their lives and for cover
that now we're going to get kamikazed.  The
rescue workers, they are trying to take us out.
          I stood there and looked at the sky all
around in all directions and couldn't really tell
where the sound was coming from.  It was getting
louder and louder.  Then I spotted them, they
R. LAROCCO 49
were coming out of the west, like out of Jersey
City, that way.  They were two F15 fighters.  I
saw them, they were fully armed and the dual
tail.  I started yelling, "Hey guys, guys, look,
those are our planes, those are our planes."
Other guys started yelling it.
          I'll tell you, everyone stood on their
feet and everyone was cheering.  I'll tell you,
at that point even though I was kind of beat up
at the time -- I wasn't going to give up, but I
was beaten up.  I stood up straight, I looked at
those planes as they circled us and protected us,
and I really felt proud to be American.
     Q.   Is there anything else that you think
is important?  Anything I haven't asked you?
     A.   The only thing is that later on I
teamed up with Chief Jay Fischler of 46 Battalion
at the time.  Now he's in the 8th Battalion.  We
walked over by number Seven World Trade Center as
it was burning and saw this 40-plus story
building with fire on nearly all floors.  We ran
into a few of our old buddies from Rescue 2.
     Q.   Do you remember their names?
     A.   You know, right now I'm drawing a
R. LAROCCO 50
blank.  I know these guys like my brothers.  Mark
Gregory was one, and maybe Billy Esposito from
Rescue 2.  I'm not too sure about him.
     Q.   What about firefighter Spade, you said
initially did you run into him?
     A.   No, you see, when we put the woman down
and gave her to the cops, we were talking.  When
I saw the cops weren't doing anything, I said
pick the woman up and let's go.  I kind of
thought Billy Spade was going to pick her up, but
there was a cop right there and he grabbed her.
          At that point Billy and I separated.
Billy ended up living.  I wasn't too sure.  I
even told my wife a few days later this guy had
to get killed.  It was really bad, the collapse.
He ended up surviving.  From what I understand,
he had a broken leg and some internal injuries.
          As a matter of fact, he told the guys
from Rescue 5 that I was probably dead, and I was
on their board missing, presumed dead, until
Sunday morning.  That's a whole other chapter of
the story.  I made it.  I'm here.
          Anyway, after the operation Jay
Fischler and I walked up to 1 Truck, and that's
R. LAROCCO 51
where I saw the second plane hit the tower on TV.
I was amazed.  I hung out at 1 Truck for about 20
minutes, got some water, and then from 1 Truck
walked back here to Great Jones Street.  I met a
lot of different civilians, and they were very
supportive.  That's how I spent September 11th.
          MR. FEILER:  Thank you very much on
     behalf of the department.  We're going to
     conclude the tape at 1313 hours.
File No. 9110082
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
            EMT PETER CACHIA
   Interview Date:  October 15, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
P. CACHIA
2
          MS. BASTEDENBECK:  Today is October 15,
     2001.  The time now is 655 hours.  My name is
     Christine Bastedenbeck with the New York City Fire
     Department, conducting an interview with the
     following individual.
     Q.   Please state your name, rank, title and
assigned command area of the New York City Fire
Department.
     A.   My name is Peter Cachia.  I'm an EMT with the
New York City Fire Department, assigned to Battalion 4.
     Q.   Also present today is --
     A.   Christopher Eccleston of the New York Fire
Department World Trade Center Task Force.
     Q.   Mr. Cachia, we would like you to relay your
experience on the events of September 11, 2001.
     A.   On September 11, 2001, I was assigned to my
Battalion in a light duty status, secondary to an
injury back in the past.  At approximately, let's see,
right before the first plane hit the first tower,
myself and the two Lieutenants on duty were at the desk
and we heard the radio transmission that a plane had
just crashed into the World Trade Centers.
          I remember the conditions boss leaving to go
to the scene, and the desk Lieutenant on duty was
P. CACHIA
3
basically getting things in order.  People were coming
in.  He was assigning them ambulances to go to the
scene.  After a few minutes of that, the Lieutenant had
left and he had given me the keys to the station and
said I was to -- anybody who came into the station, I
was to get them to the scene, give them a radio and an
ambulance and have them go to the scene.
          About 9, 5 after 9 or 10 after 9, Lieutenant
Amy Monroe came to the station and asked me if I could
drive her to the scene.  I advised her that I was on
light duty.  She said-- she asked me if I could drive
and I said yes I can, as long as I didn't have to do
any heavy lifting.  She said okay.
          We then proceeded to the scene, parked the
ambulance on Cortlandt Street and then we proceeded to
the first triage center, which was on Church Street,
basically in front of the Trade Center complex.
     Q.   I'm going to ask you to mark on the map with
the number 1 where you parked your vehicle.  Do you
know the vehicle number?
     A.   13.
     Q.   Vehicle 13?
     A.   Yes.  At that time when we proceeded to the
triage center, at this time both towers had been
P. CACHIA
4
struck.  We met up with the triage Lieutenants there.
I think Lieutenant Medjuck was on scene.  Lieutenant
D'Avila, Lieutenant Melaragno were all on scene.  We
started treating the patients as they came out.  I saw
a few of my partners that I worked with in their units
there.  They were treating patients in their
ambulances.
          We were there maybe for about 25 minutes or
so and that triage center had been getting a little
crowded, so Lieutenant Monroe had asked me if there was
another triage center.  I said I think there was one on
Liberty Street, so she had asked me to go to that
triage center and to see if they were taking, you know,
patients over there or if they needed help or
anything.
          So I left her and I went to -- I was on the
way to the second triage center when the first tower
started coming down, which would be, I guess the south
tower was coming down.  When that started coming down,
I basically turned around and like everyone else, I
started running up the block, but due to my injury --
     Q.   Which way were you running, do you know?
     A.   I was running -- I guess this is, let me just
get my bearing, this would be northeast.
P. CACHIA
Q.   On Liberty?
5
     A.   Up Liberty.  I was very close.  I was like a
little too close to the tower when it started coming
down, because when I started running, I knew I was too
close and I really didn't think I was going to get out
of there.  So about halfway up Liberty Street I saw a
truck, I guess an SUV.  It wasn't a police or a fire
vehicle.  It was just a car that was parked there.  I
went under the truck while the tower came down and the
ground was shaking and the truck was shaking and I
thought that was it for me.  I thought I was done.
          I stayed under there until I guess everything
was over.  I remember opening my eyes and looking out
and it was just pitch black.  I guess after a few
minutes after it cleared up, after I opened my eyes, I
looked out and it was bright out again.  I got from
under the truck and I went back up Liberty, which was
now just a pile of rubble and I went to go back to the
triage center where I was, where we started out and
everybody had gone from there.
          So I just continued going up Church Street
and when I got to Church and Fulton Street, I met up
with Lieutenant D'Avila again and he told -- said let's
get out of here, the second one might be coming down.
P. CACHIA
6
So then we went back up Fulton Street and the second
tower had come down, but we were far enough away from
it, but again, like everybody else, we just ran.
          After that, I remembered running down Fulton
Street and going into a store, seeing the cloud of dust
going by from the second tower and then hearing it
coming down.
     Q.   At that time, were you with any other EMS
personnel or fire personnel?
     A.   No, Lieutenant D'Avila had gone one way and I
went the other way.  When I came out, I started going
back to the scene, but now my back was just bothering
me a lot.  I turned around and I was walking towards
Downtown Beekman Hospital.  I walked towards there.  As
I was walking towards there two police officers had saw
me and they saw that I was in pain and I could hardly
walk and they helped me down to Beekman Hospital.
          I got to Beekman Hospital and the doctors,
you know, they rinsed me off, because I was just
covered in that dust.  They asked me what the problem
was.  I said, you know, I have 3 herniated disks in my
back.  I'm fine.  I just need to rest, just take care
of everybody, because they were -- I mean -- they were
overrun with patients.
P. CACHIA
7
          I said just take care of everybody else.  I'm
fine.  I just got to rest a little bit.  So I sat down
for a few minutes.  I remember being in the hospital.
I remember hearing somebody saying that they crashed a
plane into the Pentagon also, so it was like just
unbelievable what was going on.  I stayed in the
hospital for a little while.
          Then I walked back down towards South Street
and as I was walking down South Street, I was going
past - I forgot the name -- there is like an apartment
complex right across from Beekman Hospital and that was
also being set up as a triage center.  As I walked past
there, I saw Lieutenant D'Avila.  He said come inside,
just rest for a little while.  So I went in there and
sat down for a few minutes.  I stayed there for a few
minutes and as I left, I walked out and I walked back
down to South Street and at that time I flagged down a
police car.  He had taken me back to the station,
because I was just in too much pain where I couldn't do
anything after that.
          So I came back to the station.  I just
basically stayed here for a little while.  At the end
of my shift at 3:00, the Lieutenant just said for me
just to go home.  I went home.  I mean I didn't want
P. CACHIA
8
to, but I was basically useless, because I couldn't --
my back was just in severe pain.  I really wasn't any
good to anybody.  There wasn't anything to do here.  We
didn't have any phones or anything to answer, no
computer to go on.
          So that's about it.  That's basically the day
I don't think any of us will forget.  Something that I
never thought I would see in my life.  Just lucky to be
alive I guess.  I guess it just wasn't my time.
     Q.   Is there anything else you would like to add
to this about the events that happened prior to 12
noon?
     A.   No, I mean it's -- I don't know.  It's just
as a service, as an EMS service, I think we were very
lucky.  From the units from this Battalion being the
first ones down there and us not losing anybody is a
miracle.
     Q.   At any time, did you go into either one of
the towers?
     A.   No.  I mean I didn't want to, I really
didn't.  I mean I don't think anybody thought they
would come down.  I don't know, just I remember getting
there and just looking up and just seeing these two
gaping holes in the side of these buildings.  It was
P. CACHIA
9
just like watching a movie.  I remember after the first
one got hit, we all went out the door out here.
          When it came over a plane crashed into the
Trade Center, okay, a little Cessna.  We didn't know
until we went out and we looked and we saw and we all
said this wasn't a Cessna.  I remember coming back
here.  At that time the TV still worked.  We had the TV
on channel 4 news.  We were watching it.  I remember
watching the news and looking and seeing the second
plane going into it.
          I said oh, my god.  Is that the first plane
or is that the second plane.  I saw it was the second
plane and then I remembered hearing Lieutenant D'Avila
coming over the radio and saying Central be advised, a
second plane just went into the second tower.  We ran
out and we saw the second plane.
          It was like watching a movie.  It really
was.  Something that you never thought you would see
and something that you never comprehend.  It's just a
day, like I said, nobody will ever forget.
          MS. BASTEDENBECK:  Thank you for your time
     and your thoughts.  This interview is concluded at
     706 hours.
File No. 9110083
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         EMT THOMAS J. BENDICK
   Interview Date:  October 15, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
T.J. BENDICK
2
          MR. ECCLESTON:  Today's date is October 15,
     2001.  The time is 745 hours.  This is Christopher
     Eccleston of the New York City Fire Department.
     I'm conducting an interview with the following
     individual.
     Q.   Please state your name, rank, title and
assigned command of the Fire Department of the City of
New York regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
     A.   Thomas J. Bendick.  Emergency medical
technician, assigned to Division 1.
     Q.   Also present?
     A.   Christine Bastedenbeck of the New York City
Fire Department.
     Q.   Thomas, can you tell us about the events of
September 11, 2001.
     A.   Approximately I guess sometime around 9:45 or
earlier, I arrived at work.  I met up with one of the
guys from the Division, Duane Walker, and myself and
him responded to the World Trade Center incident, and
parked our vehicle, which was an empty ambulance full
of supplies, someplace approximately Fulton and
Trinity, I guess near St. Pauls cemetery, where
Lieutenant Melarango was on scene triaging patients.
Exited the vehicle.  We left our vehicle at that
T. J. BENDICK
3
location.
     Q.   Can you mark on the map with a number 1 where
you parked your vehicle?
     A.   Right about there, I guess.
     Q.   Also, would you happen to know what vehicle
number it was?
     A.   I honestly do not.  300 series, one of the
newer ambulances.  I wasn't driving.  I was the
passenger.  That vehicle was parked there and left
there with supplies in the back.  It wasn't being used
for transporting patients.  It was full of backboards.
As I exited the vehicle , I spoke to the guys with
Duane and said I was going to go to the command post to
meet up with the Chiefs, being that I'm a Chief's
aide.
          Left the vehicle.  I guess within a minute on
scene, I left that location, took my bag of supplies
that I had with me, some extra batteries and supplies,
being that I figured we would be there for a long time,
proceeded down Vesey Street towards the West Side
Highway.  Got to 7 World Trade Center.
          I saw another EMS triage location with
Captain Nahmod and Chief Peruggia were treating
patients and I guess a little bit after I got past that
T. J. BENDICK
4
point, there was a loud roar.  This is probably I would
say about 5 minutes after I got on the scene, maybe a
little bit longer.
          I figured another plane was coming.  I
stopped for a second, looked around and I didn't see
anything and then I began to run towards the West Side
Highway, where I saw MERV 1, figuring to get as far
away from buildings, not knowing what was going on.  I
got to the corner of 140 West, where the New York
Telephone Company building was, saw a little -- like a
little indent into the building.  It was a construction
barrier or wall that was built.
          I went behind the wall I guess with another
Firefighter, Police Captain and a couple of civilians.
We put our backs against the wall because of not
knowing what the heck was going on.  Then in a couple
of seconds, the roar stopped and I guess like in a
split second it was just pure black.
          After it got dark, one gentleman said is
everybody all right.  I think everybody that was
standing there was like yes, I'm fine.  I think the
same gentleman who was doing most of the talking, he
asked a guy out loud who was talking to himself, he
goes do we stay here or do we leave.
T. J. BENDICK
5
          At the same time you hear everybody start
coughing and choking on all the dirt and the fumes and
the smoke, so immediately you knew there was no chance
of staying there, so one guy is like well, we got to
get out of here.  Like I said, out loud everybody is
basically thinking to themselves.  One guy says, well,
I think there is ambulances and fire trucks behind us
going towards the highway.  Then he said does anybody
have a flashlight?
          So I reached down in my belt and I actually
had a small flashlight with me.  I took my small
flashlight out and turned that on and the guy that was
talking, grabbed my hand immediately, because I guess
he was standing right next to me and then we waved the
flashlight around asking if there was anybody else near
us.  You could hear a couple of voices near us, but
most of them said they couldn't see the flashlight,
even though they sounded like they were about 2 feet
from you.
          So eventually, I think about 2 more people we
were able to get and we all held hands.  Then a couple
of other people were able to work their way over and
then grabbed on to us.  So it was about I guess 5 or 6
of us, we all held hands and we used the one flashlight
T. J. BENDICK
6
and we started walking towards the West Side Highway.
          Like I said, we had an idea which way to go.
You could kind of hear the diesel engine from one of
the fire trucks, so like I said, we were hoping that
was the West Side Highway.  Like I said, the visibility
was, I guess with the flashlight, about a foot.
Without the flashlight it was zero.
          Meanwhile you couldn't breathe, so at that
point I was using my turnout coat and my shirt, put
that over my face, trying to filter the air out.  It
wasn't like it was smoke.  It was just dirt.  It was
like breathing dirt.  So trying to just keep the dirt
out of your mouth so you can get some form of air.
          I remember not being able to see.  I remember
walking, hitting the curb, going by the guy who was in
front of me, who was holding my hand with the
flashlight.  He tripped off the sidewalk and I held him
and he said, you know, we said everybody watch out.
There is a sidewalk, so I remember stepping off the
sidewalk.  You couldn't see your feet. You could just
feel it.  I can remember stepping over several fire
hoses.  Once again you couldn't see them.  You could
just feel them.
          We found the fire truck we heard.  We walked
T. J. BENDICK
7
along the fire truck.  We were holding the fire truck,
feeling it.  Got past the fire truck and there was more
like open space, so we just kept walking up in the open
space, heading north, trying to -- we couldn't run, you
just had to go slow because you couldn't see.
          I guess we got about -- I think about Murray
Street, I would say.  It would have had to been by the
time we got to fresh air, because I remember the
college.  So we got someplace around the college where
the fresh air started and I think in the middle of West
and Murray, there was a Citywide ambulance parked with
its passenger door open.  I guess they had been and
gone.
          So I climbed in that ambulance, climbed in
the back of their ambulance because it was a van.  You
can climb through.  I got their saline out of the back,
because my eyes and everything, my mouth were full of
garbage.  So I got out of the ambulance from the side
door, and I washed my eyes out, washed my mouth out,
trying to get as much of the dirt out of me.  The other
gentleman with us, once we got to free air, they all
scattered and went to wherever they had to go.
          After I washed my eyes out, I went back to I
guess about the south point of the college on Murray.
T. J. BENDICK
8
There I met up with Captain Nahmod, who was at 7 World
Trade Center.  He got out.  He was by himself and 2
FDNY EMS physicians came by.  They had some of the dust
masks, so one of them gave me a dust mask.  I honestly
don't know who they were.  They were Fire Department
members.  So I got a dust mask, because it was still
kind of dusty where we were standing.
          At that point, they were trying to get an
idea of what was going on, get a plan together.  At
that same point, I was looking around and I saw --
numerous civilians were asking are you all right, do
you need anything.  At that point, some place on the
west side, on the West Side Highway, a cop had opened a
fire hydrant and he had the hydrant going and everybody
was like washing their face off, so then I went over
there to wash off.  I was letting the water go through
my mouth and the cop is saying the water is dirty, what
are you doing opening your mouth.  I said at this point
it doesn't really make a difference clearing what's in
my mouth.
          So I washed off again, because there was just
so much stuff on you.  Then I met up with Lieutenant
Albuerme from Battalion 8, who now got on.  I don't
know where he came from, but he ended up on the same
T. J. BENDICK
9
point, right around the college.  So myself, Joe
Cahill, a bunch of us met up, so we all started talking
to get an idea together of what we wanted to do.
          Right about that point, we were looking
southbound and we were all standing like in a group
huddled.  We were saying okay, if people come out, you
know, I guess we will get them, put them to the side,
and sometime around there you saw that the north tower
collapsed.  That I actually -- the south tower I never
saw collapse, didn't know it collapsed.  All I could
see was a large cloud.
          At that point I could actually visually see
the top floors of the north tower starting to give way
and that began to collapse.  At that point we all began
to run north.
     Q.   Where were you at this point?
     A.   We had to be right at the same area, about
West and Murray, because this is the -- where is the
College of Manhattan College?
     Q.   This is it, I believe.  That's not it.  It's
further up.
     A.   So we were further up at that point.
     Q.   It's right past Chambers, so you must have
been like right around here.
T. J. BENDICK
10
     A.   Okay.  So we had to be around Chambers,
because we were at the south side of Manhattan
Community College when the second building collapsed.
So we actually may have walked even further then,
because I remember we got to about Manhattan Community
College.  The other thing I should note, the pedestrian
bridge there, which I think is all in the same area,
and that's where we met up with everybody.
          At that point, we ran north alongside of the
college, because I was on the sidewalk right next to
the college, going north and between the college there
is a walkway, actually a road that goes under the
college, so we ran in underneath there, so the college
building is against our backs and then when the debris
came, it would go past us, not necessarily striking
us.  The only thing we worried about was anything
coming down on top of us.
          At the same point, a plain clothes, which I
assume was a police officer, fired three rounds of his
revolver into the door of the Manhattan Community
College, the glass doors, which caused a panic.
Everybody was screaming shots fired, get down.
          I actually visually saw the guy fire the 3
shots.  He wasn't in a uniform.  He was in plain
T. J. BENDICK
11
clothes.  I was actually screaming, no, calm down, he
is shooting the door out because like I say, he just
caused a huge panic, because now, obviously everybody
knows it's a terrorist attack, and this guy is shooting
his gun off.  So he blew the doors out to the college,
because they were glass doors.   He climbed in, called
people, try to get to safety.
          At that point, I looked back, right before I
made the turn, and it looked like most of the dust.  It
wasn't coming that far, so I wasn't too concerned about
the actual building, so we stopped for a minute,
relaxed, and walked back out on to the highway, and
then said, okay, we need to set up another triage,
figure something out.  By the same people, Joe Cahill,
Lieutenant Bearman and myself, some other people, I
don't know who they were, all met up at the north
corner of the college and we were trying to figure out
how to get into the college to set up the triage and
just get people off the street.
          Joe Cahill made arrangements with some staff
person at the college to get the gym open, which was on
the second floor, but had an access stairwell from
outside the building.  So we went up into the gym,
which they got open.  We laid -- there's mats.  We laid
T. J. BENDICK
12
down mats.  Brought some supplies in from the ambulance
that was sitting on the street.
          Don't ask me the number, it was an ALS
ambulance.  We got into the back door. Took their
supplies out.  Put those inside.  Figured we will take
members, police or whoever was like, you know, couldn't
move, but you know, wasn't in need to go to the
hospital, we just let them sit in there and take a
break.
          After we got that set up, we figured we will
shuffle people up, MERV 4 was parked in the street
right outside the door, so they were taking anybody
that was truly hurt.  They were looking at -- there was
numerous ambulances on the West Side Highway.
Basically like I said, everybody was just trying to see
what they could do.
          At the same point, one of the Lieutenants
said, I don't know his name, said get everybody to take
their coats and their gear off, because we don't know
what's -- if they are contaminated with anything,
before they go into the building.
          So at that point, I went over to one of the
fire Chiefs on the West Side Highway, where there was a
fire truck parked.  There was no firemen except for two
T. J. BENDICK
13
injured firemen and this injured Chief, we were
thinking of taking supplies off the truck, possibly
hook up a hydrant to get decon going.  The Chief said
take whatever you want.
          So it looked like a probationary firefighter
who was off duty, because he was clean, he just like --
he had just shown up and a plainclothes cop and myself
took a fire hose, hooked up to the fire hydrant right
in front of the Community College, about a hundred feet
from this intersection, and we put the hose to the
corner, figuring as people come out at the
intersection, we will wash them down, throw them in the
gym, and let them get -- you know, take a break.
          I don't know what time frame that was, or how
long it took us to get all that accomplished, but it
took a time.  By that point, we set all that up, the
gym was open, we had the whole plan, put everybody in
the gym, wash them down, and if there was injured, the
MERV was there.
          So it seemed kind of organized, and it had an
action plan, and sometime around there, we could hear
on the Citywide radio that they were sending the rest
of the units in to Chelsea Piers for north staging.  I
don't think they even knew we were there, because the
T. J. BENDICK
14
radio was just too tied up to even try to tell them
where we were.
          So we just figured, you know, we are
together, we will stay together, the people we had,
treat them, there was ambulances there.  Just throw
them in the ambulances and get them out.  We need to
get people out.  I guess all the responding units were
going to Chelsea Piers, but we figured it was too far
away to try to bring patients, because, I mean, it's a
drive.  So we figured if anybody -- if we needed to go
there, we could go there, but we figured we still
needed to treat people where we were.
          Sometime around the same point they ended up
calling, the Lieutenants came out to everybody and said
we are evacuating, drop whatever you got, grab our
supplies.  We are getting out, because the Stuyvesant
school they were feared was going to explode and there
were reports of gas leaks and additional devices.
          So about the same point we dropped all of our
equipment, some of the EMTs and Lieutenants took the
supplies that we had in the building out, threw them in
the back of some of the ambulances, and sometime around
that point, we were just like, okay, let's just get
out.
T. J. BENDICK
15
          At that point I was tired and I was like
okay, I'm getting out.  Got in the back of one
ambulance that had the windows blown out, but the crew
was in the front, so they start driving, so they opened
the back doors and we stood in the back and there was
all the other people on the street.  We piled them all
in the back of the ambulance and we drove up to Chelsea
Piers.  I remember, I think it was Pelham Manor Fire
Department we threw in the back.  A couple of cops, a
couple of EMTs, I think St. Claire's EMTs.  We had
about 20 people in the back I wouldn't doubt it.  We
just drove up to Chelsea Piers.
          At that point, that's like, we just gave up
on what we were doing and we just headed to Chelsea
Piers and then, you know, everybody regrouped, found
who they were working with.  Looked like most of the
guys who were by themselves, they lost their partners,
teamed up with somebody else and about that point they
were setting up the hospital at Chelsea Piers.  Some of
the guys that were by themselves, I noticed went over
to the hospital and were working out of the field
hospital, big help.  But I didn't see any patients go
up there, except for that one Firefighter.  I sat there
for the rest of the night.
T. J. BENDICK
16
          Then the Lieutenant said I'm going back to
the station.  You got a vehicle?  I said okay, I'll
come with you.  It had to be sometime, I guess, around
6:00.  Like I said, I can't tell you how long it took
to accomplish the tasks.  I didn't notice the watch.  I
was on the north side of the north tower at 6 World
Trade Center when the south tower collapsed.  Got out
of that, grouped, the north tower collapsed, got out of
that, went to the college, tried to set up and that's
when they said they blew up the school and there might
be additional explosions and they said evacuate the
downtown area and then I went up to Chelsea Piers.
          I don't think I missed any, but that's about
it.
     Q.   Is there anything else you would like to add
to this?  Anything at all?
     A.   I don't think so.  Obviously as you know,
there was a lot going on.  Lots of people moving
around.  Obviously there was numerous firefighters and
everybody was coming south.  We were all trying to find
a safe distance to triage and do our work, but they
didn't tell you what was safe at that point.
          MR. ECCLESTON:  Right.  Okay.  The time is 8
     o'clock, this concludes our interview with Thomas
T. J. BENDICK
17
Bendick.

File No. 911084
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER PETE GUIDETTI Interview Date: October 12, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins

P. GUIDETTI
MR.McALLISTER: I'mKevinMcAllister from the office of administration. It's October 12th, 2001. We're on the eighth floor at Fire Department headquarters. It is 9:41 hours, and I'm here with Firefighter Pete Guidetti, who is going to recount his experiences from September 11th.
A. We'll start out I was in Ray Goldbach's office, the executive officer to the fire commission, discussing the things that had to be done that day around the office. Ray got a Nextel message that a plane went into the World Trade Center, and we both more or less thought it might have been a Piper Cub, a Cessna or something like that. We had no idea it was a commercial plane.
With that I look out the window, and I see the World Trade Center, I see the hole, I see the black smoke, and I just yelled for my boss, Commissioner Feehan. He came over. He saw it. He said, "Oh, my God. Let's go."
With that Ray says, "Do you want to come with me?" to Commissioner Feehan.
Commissioner Feehan said, "No, I'm going to go

P . GUIDETTI
with Pete, my driver. He has all my gear and stuff in the car." Then Ray says, "All right, then I'll come with you." With that Tom Fitzpatrick and Tom McDonald were nearby. They asked Commissioner Feehan i f they could come along also. He said absolutely.
I went down into the garage first to get into the car and get it ready for them, and a couple minutes l a t e r they came down and they got in the car with me.
Q. All four of them?
A. Four of them, Feehan in the front, McDonald, Ray Goldbach and Fitzpatrick in the back.
We exit the garage. We go over the Brooklyn Bridge. One lane was open and cleared for us. The other two lanes to the right of me were just bumper to bumper cars. I had this one clear shot over the Brooklyn Bridge with no interference of traffic.
Q. Could you see the Trade Center as you were driving over the bridge?
A. I didn't look to see it because, driving kind of fast, my eyes were glued to the

P. GUIDETTI
road. If they got glimpses of it - - we saw enough of it initially in Ray's office to know what we were heading into.
My plan of action was to take Chambers Street over to West Street and down West Street to the World Trade Center. Exiting off the Brooklyn Bridge, heading towards Chambers Street, Ray Goldbach said, "Pete, don't take Chambers Street. Make a U turn right here." With that I made the U turn, and now I'm heading past City Hall. With that a police ESU vehicle pulls from Park Row South in front of me. Commissioner Feehan says to follow him. So I got right on his tail and went right down to Broadway.
We got as far as Broadway and Dey Street, at which point I pulled the car half on the sidewalk, half in the street, because of all the people, the emergency apparatus coming in, rigs as well as ambulances and cop cars. So there wasn't an easy way to position the car other than to position it that way.
I popped the trunk. The four of them get out. Commissioner Feehan grabs his helmet and puts his fire coat on. There was a fire coat

P. GUIDETTI 5
in there that I believe Tom McDonald put on, or Fitzpatrick, I'm not sure.
I slammed the trunk down. I turn around and t e l l the people, "Get out of here. The building's coming down." Why I said that, I don't know. I just really felt strongly about it. Talking to the upper echelon in this job, nobody thought the building was coming down.
Q. So you said you told the people.
A. People. There were people a l l over the place. People were in a position they just wanted to watch. I said to them, "This building is coming down. Get out of here." A few woman scattered, "Let's get out of here, let's get out of here." People just stayed there. Boom, the second plane hits.
Q. So you're right on Broadway when the second plane hit.
A. Right on Broadway when the second plane hit. Shit and debris flying all over the place, people screaming, running for their lives, myself included. Where I ran, I ran five feet under an awning in front of a store.
When all hell calmed down from that, I

P. GUIDETTI
got into the car to reposition the car and get it out of the way. More ambulances were coming in. I went down Broadway to Liberty and made a left on Liberty. I parked the car about 20 or 30 feet off the corner.
Q. You're by yourself?
A. I'm by myself. These four guys - - Feehan, Fitzpatrick, McDonald and Ray Goldbach - - once I slammed that trunk and I turned to tell the people this building is coming down, they were already in motion. They were running down Dey Street.
Q. So you were by yourself when the second plane hit?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay.
A. My understanding with them was Feehan
went one way, the other three went another way. When you have a mass exodus of people coming at you, it is very easy to see how four people could not stay together and would be separated.
So anyway, after repositioning the car and locking it up, I start heading down Liberty towards 10 and 10, not knowing where the command

P. GUIDETTI 7
post was. I figured let me go and hook up with Feehan - - he's my boss - - in case he needs anything.
I have no gear. I'm LSS. I was never issued bunker gear, helmets or any of that stuff because there's no need for me to have that.
Commissioner Feehan, First Deputy, went to major incidences. Most of the time I never had to take him to third or fourth alarms and things like that. He would let his chief of department run it, his chief of operations. In this particular case he wanted to go to this one, so we took him.
I was just going to go and hook up, try to find him, stay by his side: "Boss, do you want me to go get your phone? A glass of water?" In my capacity as an aide to him.
Q. At the command post?
A. At the command post. Wherever he is. Sometimes he's remote from the command post. If he happens to say, "Yeah, let's take a ride to this third, Pete," we would take a ride. Sometimes he stays in the background and sees how it's going.

P. GUIDETTI
My theory was let me go find my boss and see if he needs anything. I was glad to get the car out of the way. I didn't want it to be buried. I didn't want it to be inaccessible or in a position where we couldn't get it out of there should Commissioner Feehan five hours from now from that point want to go back to headquarters, get a change of clothes, whatever. That's what made me get that car out of there also.
So I get that car out of there. I'm heading down Liberty towards Church.
Q. Onfoot? A. On foot.
I stop before Church, look up - this is the second tower that got hit - - and I said, "Pete, don't go any further. This fucking building is coming down." I'm sorry I cursed.
Q. That's okay. This is your recollection, your words and your observation.
A. With that, within two seconds I hear a rumble. I'm still looking up. I didn't do anything. I'm still more or less - - not frozen but I'm standing there in awe how this building

P. GUIDETTI
is still staying up.
Q. You're on Liberty. Are you west of
Church or east?
A. I'm before Church. I never made it to
Church.
Q. You never got - -
A. Never made it to Church.
In between Broadway and Church?
A. Between Broadway and Church, looking
UP.
I stopped. Not that I froze, but I stopped. I said, "This fucking thing is coming down." With that I heard the rumble within a couple of seconds, and then I saw the brown, thick, malted milk dust cloud and smoke and whatever else coming down. It was rolling down with a roar like you couldn't believe.
I turned around and I start fucking running. Everybody's running for their fucking lives. Somebody runs by me, knocks into me, I fall down. The last thing I needed running away from a falling fucking building is to fall down.
But I manage to get up, start running again. By then the building had pancaked down.
Q.

P. GUIDETTI 10
The force of it just hit me in the back and blew me like ten feet into a police van.
Q. Was it just the air, the force of the air? The debris?
A. Air, dust, dirt, debris. Not heavy debris. It felt like I was shot in the back with a shotgun, pellets. All these pellets were hitting me, the force. The dust engulfed me, pushed me, literally - - I guess I was off my feet for ten feet. Then I banged into the police van, dropped down to the floor, scrambled to get around the building that was on the corner for protection.
Q. Now you're on Broadway and Liberty, do you think?
A. Yes.
Now I can't see anything. I'm huddling
on my knees. I'm trying to feel if I'm bleeding, because I am on blood thinners.
Q. Did you hear anything at that point?
A. A lot of screaming, a lot of screaming. I was a little disoriented. I couldn't see anything. I was in the thick of it as far as the dust cloud was concerned. Day turned into night,

literally.
P. GUIDETTI
I started wandering, not knowing where I was heading, because I couldn't see street signs, I couldn't zero in on what fucking street I was on. But anyway I was heading east towards the seaport.
Q. Okay.
A. Midway in that trip from the west side to the east side, I hear more planes coming. I did not know it was our jet fighters. That was told to me later on by Dr. Hittman.
Q. Okay.
A. I just huddled up against the side of the building. There's no place to hide. You couldn't see anything. There is a building there; that I can determine. I just stayed up against it while I thought there was another plane coming in. But it wasn't. It was our jet fighters. That went overhead. I continued to walk.
I get to the seaport. That must be Water Street there.
Q. Yeah.
A. I see the blue sky for the first time.

P. GUIDETTI
So I start walking north. Somebody gave me a bottle of water. All I can remember saying to myself is, "I can't find Feehan. I can't find Feehan. They're all dead. They're all dead," meaning the four I took.
Q. Yeah, sure. -A. I look up at the Brooklyn Bridge,
loaded with people, mass exodus coming out of fucking Manhattan.
Q. Onfoot? A. On foot.
I keep walking, keep walking. I walked to the Manhattan Bridge, which had less people on it. Naturally people are going to go for the nearest thing that they can get out of the borough.
Q. Sure.
A. So the Manhattan Bridge wasn't bad to walk over. I got to the Manhattan Bridge, walked over.
Q. Did the second building come down while

P. GUIDETTI
you were there?
A. The second building had come down when
I was midway - - I wouldn't even say midway. I would say after I started - - after I regained some composure, got off my knees from this huddled position, I started walking. Then the second building came down.
Q. This is before you got to the Manhattan Bridge?
A. Oh, way before. Way before I saw the blue sky.
Q. Okay.
A. Then as I'm walking up to the Manhattan Bridge, there was a car bomb. A car bomb went off in some car, because the cops were saying, "Come on, people, shit is happening. Let's go. Keep moving, keep moving."
You could see another plume of smoke. Somebody yelled, "It's a car bomb, a car bomb."
I kept fucking walking towards the Manhattan Bridge. I got over the Manhattan Bridge. Some heavyset black lady just put her arm around me and walked with me and just talked to me and said everything's going to be all right and you'll be

okay.
P. GUIDETTI
I don't think I looked too good from - - Q. I saw you when you returned. I was at
headquarters when you returned, and you were covered in dust and you were clearly disoriented and we got an EMT to look after you.
A. That I remember, yeah. They were very nice. I was sitting up front at Corey's desk. I know I had been crying a lot. I really thought all four of them were dead.
Basically they calmed me down. They told me I had to go and decontaminate in the shower, get rid of all the clothes. I got some spare clothes from Roy Katz, and I went and took the shower. Then they said, "You should go in for debriefing." That was on the seventh floor, I believe
So I go. I get off and go on the seventh floor. I come in an office like this, a room like this. I sit at the head. There's six people: a marshal, a couple of EMTs, Ken Cox, a couple other people. I sit down. This one EMT

P. GUIDETTI 15
-says, "If you want to talk, you ca-n talk. If you don't want to, you don't have to. Whenever you feel like it, you can talk if you like or whatever."
I'm just sitting there. Then there was quiet. There was silence. They're all staring at me, six people staring at me.
So he EMT girl says, "Okay. That's perfectly okay if you just want to sit a
while. "
"Okay. ThaL's fine. If you want to come back later, you're more than
welcome to. We're here to help you. We're here." I understood all that, but maybe had they asked me questions I would have been responsive to each question rather than six people staring at me, waiting for me to start talking.
Q. Right.
A. I didn't want to relive what I just did, what I just experienced, at that time. I'm doing it now, and I've done it quite a few times in telling friends and loved ones what I

P. GUIDETTI
experienced. At that time with six people staring at me, I said, "You know what, I want to go upstairs." And they let me go upstairs.
I just went back to my office. I sat down. One of the light duty guys got me a glass of water. Basically that was it. I stood around until around 4:00, I believe it was, 3:30. Then when I had the moment, I just left without saying anything to anybody, and I got in my old pickup truck and I headed home. That's all I wanted to do was go home.
Q. Sure.
The next day I didn't come to work. Ray called me at home. A couple of people called me at
Q. Sure.
A. I said, "I've got to go back to work. I can't do this. I can never not go back." So the very next day I came in.
Basically I would say that's the whole thing in a nutshell. Was I as close to the

P. GUIDETTI
building as a lot of people were? Absolutely
not. I was out of harm's way. The most that -happened to me was the force of air, dust and
pieces, tiny pieces, of concrete, plaster that just engulfed me, knocked me to the ground. I got a little scrape on the arm.
Q. Yeah. You were disoriented, but it was understandable after what you'd experienced. I saw you that afternoon.
A. Yeah. I felt I had all my faculties but yet something was missing. I couldn't pinpoint it. I wasn't hurting. I wasn't like,
"Oh, my shoulder is killing me. My arms are bleeding. I'm cut." No physical pain. I just felt I wasn't right. I knew I wasn't right. Did I think I was in shock? No, again, because, as I said, I made it back here on my own.
What else could I add to it? Other than the fact that I saw one distinguished

P. GUIDETTI
jumper; several others, but the position I was in when several others were jumping, I didn't really get a good look at them, but the one I did.
I don't know what more to say other than I don't know what companies were where. I couldn't tell you if Engine 33, which was my company, was on Church and Vesey Street. I couldn't tell you that. It all happened so fast. We got there, the second plane hit within a couple of minutes. That just totally confused all these people even more, as well as myself and I'm sure firefighters and Feehan and the rest of them.
Basically that's it. I didn't see any firefighters get injured. I didn't see any rigs in position that I can say, yeah, Kevin, I remember 33 engine being on the corner of Church and Vesey. As I started to run, there was an empty rig. I didn't see any of that.
Q. Okay.
A. I didn't get close enough.
As far as getting Feehan closer, maybe if I would have went Chambers Street to West, maybe I would have gotten him closer rather than

P . GUIDETTI
him have to walk from Broadway and Dey to the command center.
Q. Right.
A. I might have come in the other way and might have gotten him there -- I don't know. These are things I question myself, why did I go so fast.
Q. He made it there on foot. He made it to West Street, and he was on the west side of West Street. So either way -- he didn't get hurt before he got there. He was hurt after he got to the west side of West Street.
A. All right.
Again, I said I think I drove too fast.
I got him there too fast. I didn't have some needle, life-saving syringe here that I had to go so fast that we had to get it there. I was taking a 72-year-old man to probably one of the most horrendous things that he would ever see -- had seen in his career or would ever see, had he been s t i l l alive. I question myself about that. Maybe if you would have just take it easier a little bit you wouldn't have gotten him there so fast. Ray chimed in with, "Did you ever stop to

P. GUIDETTI 20
think by getting him there that fast he saved 200 lives by giving an order here or giving an order there?"
Q. Right.
A. That kind of made me feel a little bit better. But I do question why wasn't I with him. I normally am in the few times we do go to scenes. Unless it's something like, "Pete, just sit in the car. I'll be back. I'm just going to go check in." Then I would just stay with the car.
ButIhadthissenseof -- Idon't know,isitguiltorisit --
Q. Some people describe it as a survivor's guilt.
A. That's what I've been experiencing lately. A couple of times it entered my mind that I was pissed off that I wasn't one of them, which is - - I don't like to even say that. But kind of like - - I don't know. I think the survivors suffer more than the instant impact of death, you know.
I'm assuming and hoping and praying that as Feehan was running as well as all the

P . GUIDETTI
other guys that there was a bang on the head, knocked them unconscious and then whatever happened afterwards he didn't feel. That's quick. Okay? That's kind of a quick way of going.
The people who survived that now, that walk away from that, i s that survivor's guilt? Is that, "Why wasn't I there too and why wasn't
I -- dead like
should it be a lot easier if I was fucking than to go through life day in and day out this, questioning?"
Q. Why by an act of fate did I survive and
another guy i s dead.
A. Right. Oh, yeah.
Q. People are so racked by that.
A. Little things too to make a person not
be caught up in that collapse, like Chief Ganci giving Nigro an order, "Go check the side of the building. Tell me what we've got, Dan. Tell Steve Mosiello, 'Steve, get me two good trucks over here. "' So those two guys had a direct order. They leave Ganci. They survive. Ganci
i s dead.
My boss, with three of his close

P. GUIDETTI
people, all four going down the block at the same time, same rate of speed, because people coming out and you can only run so fast or walk so fast, they went one way, Feehan went by himself another way. Feehan eventually got to the command post. Where these guys went I'm not too familiar with. I think Ray tried to hook up with the commissioner, rightfully so. Fitzpatrick and McDonald, I don't know where they were headed.
To make a long story short with that particular statement, why Feehan goes this way, these three go that way, these three live, Feehan dies. Feehan goes this way, his aide moves the car this way, starts heading towards hooking up
with him, Q.
he lives, Feehan dies.
There's no explanation for it. experienced the same thing, and why one
Everybody
person got hit with something that ended up killing him and another person didn't, I don't know what the explanation is.
A. When you get in that thought process of thinking about all that, you probably just ransack your brain for answers when you can't come up with them. Even discussing it with other

P. GUIDETTI
people, nobody is going to say, "Well, this is why" and give you a direct answer. There's probably just a lot of things involved with it.
I don't understand why nobody - - when I say "nobody," the people I spoke to, the upper echelon, your Fitzpatrick, your Ray Goldbach. These are knowledgeable guys. They're fire officers. They told me, "We did not think the building was coming down."
The first words out of my mouth when I slammed that trunk lid was to tell these people, "Get out of here. This building's coming down." I always felt those World Trade towers were a firefighter's nightmare. I always told my wife I do not want to be working when we have a fire in there.
About 20 years ago when I was full duty - - I was full duty for 16 years before I got hurt and became high duty LSS. So about 20 years ago I'm in front of the firehouse. It was a Friday night. I'll never forget this.
Q. In Manhattan?
A. Manhattan, 33 Engine, which is buried under the rubble. I'm standing in front of

P. GUIDETTI 24
quarters. It's the 12 to 3 watch, summer night, beautiful night. A civilian is walking by, stop, he's looking in, the apparatus doors are up. I start talking to him. He turns out to be an architectural engineer. He builds high-rise buildings, skyscrapers.
I said, "Let me ask you a question. Can I ask you a question?" He said, "Yeah, sure." I said, "The World Trade Center - - " He says, "Yes." These are my words, Kevin, on my father's grave and my mother's grave. I said, "Let me ask you a question. If a 747 out of Newark topped off with jet fuel crashes into the 80th story of one of the stories, will it topple the top 30 stories?" "Oh, no, it's not designed to do that. It's not designed to do that the way we constructed this. We took things like that into consideration in the building of it. That would not happen."
It didn't topple.
Q. Right, well, that's true.
A. At that time when I ask this guy this
question, I'm picturing a plane going in, blowing out loads of floors, fully loaded, 747 I quoted,

P. GUIDETTI
topped off with jet fuel, would it topple the 30 stories. He said no.
Did I think when I said that day these buildings are coming down, I didn't think they were going to pancake all the way down. I'm looking up at that second building saying how are those stories above it staying up. The hole was huge. It looked like toothpicks, four toothpicks in the corner were holding the rest of the stories above it up.
In me saying that these buildings are coming down, I thought it was going to collapse, it was going to topple.
Q. From above?
A. From above, like 30 stories, 20. Whatever was left above the plane crash in either tower would just give way and go this way and come down into the street. I did not think the whole building would pancake down. They were designed, from what I understand, to do that. 20 years ago the guy didn't tell me that. He didn't turn around and say, "Oh, no, you don't have to worry about the building toppling. However, you have a strong possibility of it pancaking down on

P. GUIDETTI
itself because it's primarily steel construction. Steel expands one inch for every thousand degrees rise in temperature. So you're popping rivets, you're twisting beams."
But again, he didn't say that. He just said it's not coming down.
Q. And they spoke a lot about impact. Apparently the building was designed to withstand an impact from a 707, which was the plane of the day. But it doesn't appear anybody considered the impact of a fire with all that combustible material added to it.
A. Right, that fireball, that massive amount of jet fuel burning instantly. It all goes instantly.
That's it. I was amazed at why I thought they were coming down, and I was amazed at that question the way I worded it 20 years ago, was the truth. The reason why I used the 747 in asking this guy that question back then was because 747 was the biggest plane we had. Topped off with jet fuel, it's going to have the maximum amount of fuel. Right out of Newark, you're not going to burn much to hit the World

P. GUIDETTI
Trade Center.
Q. A flight to Europe or somewhere else. A. I didn't think of terrorism back then
either. I'm just saying an accident, the fog, something, a plane is going to go into the World Trade Center. I'm going to give you a scenario, what do you think, you're an architectural engineer.
So I found that kind of strange as well as that day looking up at them saying they're coming down, saying it to people, saying it to myself with the second one, and then actually seeing it come down, looking up at it as it's starting to come down.
500 feet to the base of the building, maybe, 600 feet, I would say I was, going by the map and the schedule in the map, one inch equals
600 feet, on one of the maps I have. I was trying to find out where I was. I used that. I would say about 600 feet from the base of the building.
Q. Sure.
A. Which to me 110 stories up, it's coming down, is a little too close for me.

Q. Right.
P. GUIDETTI
A. If somebody told me, "you want to stand 600 feet away from the base of the World Trade Center when it starts to collapse?" I would say, "Absolutely not. Get me ten fucking blocks away."
But anyway, again, I was out of harm's way, because I wouldn't be here now. It's just, all of it, the hearing of the second plane exploding, people jumping, losing my boss, losing friends, my company's buried, just putting everything all together, I have no words to describe what I feel. I'm sure a lot of people feel most of what I feel. Some feel worse because of being closer, seeing a lot more worse things than I did, like body parts. I really didn't see any body parts. Some people saw that, who witnessed that, who were closer. That company that was in the stairwell, what was it, 6 Truck, 9 Engine.
Q. Yeah.
A. I mean, talk about questioning fate and everything; right?
Basically I guess that's my whole day

P . GUIDETTI
that day.
Q. I appreciate that.
A. Idon'tknowifIwasofhelp. Ihope
I was of help.
Q . Y eah, a b s o l u t e l y . E v e r y b o d y ' s
recollections are unique, and we appreciate the fact that you shared yours with us.
A. Do you have any specific questions you want to ask like -- I never made it to 10 and 10. The command center wasn't there anyway.
Q. Sure.
A. That's number one, had I gotten there. Had I been a little faster, I probably would have been by 10 and 10 and God knows would I be here now. I don't know.
All these questions you run through your mind. I'm thankful to be alive. I do think my career with the Fire Department i s over, after 31 years and losing a boss of 11 years and my company being buried, again, and me coming close to either being killed or seriously injured. I think I want to spend some time with the wife and the family and the grandchildren.
Q. Sure.

P. GUIDETTI 30
A. You've got to remember something, I'm light duty LSS. Okay? For a light duty LSS guy to come close to buying it at the scene of a fire, I mean, that's a little scary. I have no equipment. Most aides to like the chief of department, chief of operations, they're full-duty guys. They get out of their car, they're throwing helmets on, coats, boots, they're going with their boss, they're staying by their side.

S
P. GUIDETTI
OIguess ha^helpsmein hefac~ that I wasn't by Feehan's side, because in a
situation like that I don't think anybody who's wi~hno equip men^ and a
short-sleeve shirt should be at the base of a building that parts of planes are coming down, debris is coming down, bodies are coming down, eventually the whole building is coming down.
So maybe I helped my own guilt of not being next to my boss's side with that. I feel it's a pretty legitimate excuse, if that's the word I want to use, "excuse." I don't even know anymore.
But basically that's it. What else? I couldn't find Feehan's car. Dismay held the marshals for days. Then eventually they did find it.
Q. Yeah.
A. That's it, I guess, Kevin. I don't know what else.

P. GUIDETTI
Q. Okay. That was great.
A. My whole story.
Q. That was very detailed, and that was a
good account. I appreciate that.
A. Okay. Thank you. If there's anything
else you need, you think of, one single question or something.
Q. Let me wind it up?
MR. McALLISTER: It's 1013 hours on
October 12th, 2001, and we're going to conclude the interview now. Thank you.
File No. 9110085
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        PARAMEDIC JOSEPH CAHILL
   Interview Date:  October 15, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
J. CAHILL
2
          MR. ECCLESTON:  Today's date is October 15,
     2001.  The time is 1217 hours.  I'm Christopher
     Eccleston of the New York City Fire Department.
     I'm conducting an interview with the following
     individual.
     Q.   Please state your name, rank, title and
assigned command area of the Fire Department of the
City of New York regarding the events of September 11,
2001.
     A.   Okay.  My name is Joseph Cahill.  I'm a
Paramedic.  My office title is Citywide advance life
support coordinator and I work in the office of EMS
operations.
     Q.   Also present is?
     A.   Christine Bastedenbeck of the New York City
Fire Department.
     Q.   Joe, can you tell me about the events of
September 11, 2001?
     A.   Okay.  Well, I was running late.  So I was on
an odd train, which means that when things started, I
was actually in the train in New Jersey.  I heard one
of the other passengers yell out holy fuck.  And I
looked out the window.  One of the twin towers was
visibly on fire.  You could see the red of the smoke or
3
          We got to Hoboken station.  Naturally the
PATH train to World Trade Center was closed.  World
Trade Center is the only stop on that -- New York stop
on that train.  So I took the 33 Street train to
Christopher Street with the intention of walking into
the scene, which is essentially what I did.  I walked
in about halfway down.  A postal employee gave me a
ride in his postal truck.  He gave me a ride to, I
guess it must be Vesey Street.
          He dropped me off, drove me down whatever
street this is.  I don't know what that is.
     Q.   I think that's --
     A.   But I remember coming down through here and I
don't know, maybe he drove me down --
     Q.   West Street?
     A.   Yes, I think he might have.  Because I
remember coming straight down.  I don't remember making
this zigzag, coming straight --  yes, and ending up
here.  He let me out on the zebra stripes over here.
My original thought was to go to OEM, because I
routinely work OEM for the Chief during other
emergencies, but I figured I would find out what was
J. CAHILL
the red through the smoke from the side of the
building.
J. CAHILL
4
going on a little more first.
          Let's see.  At that point I remember seeing
 -- it was a proprietary ambulance.  I don't believe it
was part of the 911 contract there.  Asked them if they
knew where the command center was.  They kind of
shrugged, threw some equipment over their shoulders and
we both walked up to Church Street, where there seemed
to be a couple of other units there.
          I spoke to them briefly.  I think there was
an officer there but I don't remember who.  That looked
like it was under control.  So I walked back down
Vesey.  I remember seeing Frank Larkin from the Secret
Service run by at a dead run.  That just stuck in my
head.
          I got all the way down to Vesey and West Side
Drive and I ran into Chief Villani.  Talked to him
briefly.  I looked around, down here, adjacent to the
Trade Center, there seemed to be a lot of vehicles,
ambulances and fire trucks, up the West Side Highway.
There was also a lot of vehicles with more coming in.
          I told Chief Villani listen, it doesn't look
like there is anyone staging.  I will walk up there and
start organizing that, but I don't have a radio because
I came in on foot.  He said okay.  I don't remember if
J. CAHILL
5
it was then or when I got up here further that I ran
into Pinky.  I don't know Pinky's last, real name.  He
is a Lieutenant at Bellevue.  A little Spanish guy.  I
don't know his last name.  I think it might have been
at this point, because I couldn't have gotten much past
Barclay when the first building collapsed.
          From where I was standing, wherever that was,
it was definitely south across here somewhere.  There
is a pedestrian walk, but it was definitely right below
this pedestrian walkway.  From where I stood, Chief
Villani had said -- he pointed out one of these
buildings.  I can't, without being there and looking at
it, I'm not sure which one of these it is around the
Winter Garden.
          But he said the command post is over there.
If you need anything come over here.  I said you know,
I told him about the radio thing.  I got about here,
which is where we started to put staging together, when
one of the towers collapsed and it looked for all the
world like it collapsed right on where he indicated the
command center to be.
          I don't remember who told me before the
collapse, but it might have been Chief Villani.  It
might have been somebody else, told me that Chief
J. CAHILL
6
Goldfarb was in the command post.  At that point
truthfully, Pinky and I, because sometime shortly after
that we hooked up, or shortly before that.  At that
point I thought Pinky was probably the highest ranking
guy still alive on the scene.
          We proceeded up above the walkway, started to
organize a staging area there the second time and then
the second building collapsed, drove us from that
position up further.  Is this College of Insurance?  Do
you know which one of these is Stuyvesant?
     Q.   Yes, it's up here.
     A.   So when we were driven out the second time --
so maybe there is another walkway up here.
     Q.   Yes, there is --
     A.   Then it's not this walkway.  It's this
walkway.
     Q.   Pedestrian walkway?  Where you were talking
about when the first building came down you were by the
pedestrian walkway.
     A.   I was between these two walkways.
     Q.   Just south of Chambers?
     A.   Yes, I think so.  Chambers, Warren, something
like that.
     Q.   This map could have been better if it was
7
collapse, we went up and I remember we started setting
up right next to Stuyvesant High School.  Then we got
the word that there was a gas leak in there and that we
had to evacuate that area.  We were driven back further
up.  But that was later on.
          I remember talking to an ass load of Hatzolah
guys.  They must have had 6 units on the scene.  There
was a bunch of our units.  Before the first collapse,
yes, I must have been up here.  Because before the
first collapse I had made it just about to where the
vehicles started, where we were starting to organize
staging.  I remember seeing George Burbano from
Battalion 22.
Q. 22?
     A.   He was off duty, so I gave him my work sweat
shirt, so he had something so the cops wouldn't try to
eject him from the scene.  I remember he was helping me
move vehicles.  I remember running from both collapses
with him, both of the tower collapses.  Then I saw -- I
don't remember whose shield numbers these are.  I
remember I saw Rich, not Rich, Mitch Berkowitz, who was
also off duty.  I don't know if he is light duty or off
J. CAHILL
extended more.
     A.   When we got driven out by the second
J. CAHILL
8
duty.  I remember all he was wearing was his medic blue
shirt, dark blue shirt and a pair of jeans, which might
have mean that's what he grabbed out of the car when he
jumped out on his way to the station or might have
meant he was doing retrieval while his wrist healed
up.  I don't know.
          I remember collecting these two shield
numbers for some reason, of people that were there.
     Q.   That would be 1172?
     A.   74.
     Q.   74, sorry, 1174 and 3871?
     A.   3871.  I had given these shield numbers to
one of the new Captains, Debbie Monte, a week or so
afterward, because she was riding the desk here that
was keeping track of the list.
          So anyway, once we got beaten out of the
position for a third time, we got from the gas leak,
actually before that.  When we were beaten out by the
second collapse, I went into the Borough of Manhattan
Community College, looked for a phone.  I finally found
one in the security office.  I called my office
downstairs.  I asked them to -- I asked Mery Bento, who
is one of the secretaries down there, to page out the
Division ALS coordinators.  The first one she could get
J. CAHILL
9
a hold of was to take a vehicle, drive to the pharmacy,
find a pharmacist, get 10 cases of everything, get 20
cases of asthma meds and -- I think I ended up with 20
cases of everything, 50 cases of asthma meds and eye
drops, because it looked like we were going to be dug
in for a long time.
          There must have been a significant period of
time between the second tower collapse and when we got
beat out of the position by the gas leak.  I don't
think the gas leak is on there.  We got beat out of
position by the gas leak, because we had started to set
up a walking wounded treatment, a holding area in the
gym of Borough of Manhattan Community College.  The
reason I say that we must have -- must have been some
amount of time, we started seeing patients in that time
period.
          There was -- I don't know who owns it
 -- there was some kind of blood mobile.  No, you know
what it was, it was one of those blood pressure
screening vans, but it was a respectable size RV.  We
set that up as a MERV at one point.  They had a PAA.
We put -- I think we used a crew from Hatzolah and
Tommy Carlstrom, I think we put in there, to kind of
interface everything and make sure everything stayed on
J. CAHILL
10
an even keel.
          Hatzolah had a huge amount of equipment
there, because they were in their private vehicles.  So
we grabbed a couple of their guys and a full set of
equipment and threw it in there.  I don't think we ever
got to use it though.  We started seeing a lot of
patients with crap in their eyes, a lot of patients
with inhaled stuff and that's the only reason I knew we
needed to get those -- bulk up on those specific two
things of medication.
          I also called Jimmy Geraci, who apparently
had seen either the real life version or on TV on
radio, was starting to crank up his guys, get his
disaster trucks on the road.  I gave him a heads up
that what we are going to be needing a lot of is eye
wash, eye flush, stuff like that.  I don't know
whatever happened to those trucks because right after I
had that conversation with him, we got moved out
because of the gas leak.  My understanding is they
finally got to the scene at some other point.  Where we
were north of the job, it never came there.  I
understand they got to the south part somehow.
          After the gas leak we went further north.  I
don't remember how much further north.  I could point
J. CAHILL
11
the building out on the scene.  On the scene, if you
are looking northward, Borough of Manhattan Community
College is a brick building on the right-hand side.  It
has got a little underpass to let one of the roads
through.  That line of route continues up another block
or a building or two without appreciably getting
higher.
          The next really tall building is where we
tried to reform again.  It's got something to do with
the phone company.  It's an AT&T office building,
something like that.  I don't remember.  It would be
relatively easy to point out on the scene.  We stopped
there, started getting under control again and
somewhere in that point, I started to walk down and
chase straggling vehicles, and head personnel up.  I
ran into Chief Hirth, Lieutenant Cacciola, Grace.
Q. Grace?
     A.   And Mark Stone, who looked pretty worse for
wear.  Essentially they told me at that point that we
were going to start rallying up at 23 Street at the
piers.  We were going to start putting together a thing
up there.  I said okay.  I'm going to come down a
little bit and start chasing stragglers up so that they
aren't wandering around down here with no direction.
J. CAHILL
12
          At that point I saw Jimmy Schrang.  I started
talking to him.  My absolute favorite story of this
whole thing.  Jimmy Schrang goes, you know, my friends
from Bosnia called me today to see if I was okay.
          Anyway we took one of these cross streets.
It's probably like Warren or Murray, because we didn't
have to cut through any of these buildings.  We didn't
have to zig around any of these buildings.  We came
over here.  Every once in a while we would run into
somebody.  We would send them up to Chelsea Piers.
          Then we got -- I kind of imagine it was over
here somewhere.  No, because we couldn't see City Hall,
so it must have been on Church Street somewhere.  It's
Church or whatever there, West Street.  We started
working our way down.  Somewhere in here Jimmy saw a
guy over here.  I saw a guy over here in uniform.  He
said I will go back to talk to him, I will go over and
talk to him.  I will meet you back here in a minute.
          I went over here to talk to him and found
that "him" was the furthest outlier of a big treatment
sector that was here.  I don't remember if it was
here.  I don't think it was up here.  I don't remember
seeing St. Paul's.  I don't know how -- maybe it was
further up this way.  I do remember that this side of
J. CAHILL
13
the block had a small --
     Q.   This side of Church?
     A.   Yes, the west side of Church had a -- some
kind of courtyard, like a building courtyard that was
securely fenced off, because I remember seeing cops
climbing over the fence, but it had trees, little
trees.  Not great big jongando trees, but little
trees.
          Anyway, I ran into a treatment sector here.
Lieutenant Platt was in charge, Ed Platt.  He and I
talked for a little while.  There was a lot of units
there.  There was maybe 4 or 5 FDNY units.  There was
two units from Jersey City, at least.  There was a
couple of commercial ambulances there.  There were a
couple of voluntary ambulances there.  What was also
there was a suspicious package on one of these side
streets.
          So I told him that, you know, the direction
that we had gotten was to fall back to 23 Street and
Chelsea Piers, at which point he said well, who gave
you that direction.  The truth of the matter is that
Chief Hirth didn't say Joe, go get everybody and make
everybody fall back.  So I really didn't have a good
answer for him.  So he had a radio, so he was able to
J. CAHILL
14
actually reach Chief Peruggia, who at least temporarily
told to us hold position there.
          We organized these guys.  I started working
essentially as a staging officer.  I walked down the
row of ambulances that were probably scattered around
over here, who's on your crew, what's your unit, where
do you work from.  What vehicle you got.  Be ready to
move in 10 minutes because we may end up bugging out.
A short while later we were given the order to fall
back, but not to Chelsea Piers, to Greenwich and
something.  Greenwich and something.  No, it was -- I
never got south of the Battery Tunnel over the
entrance.  That was only way way later.  That was like
6:00 the next morning.  It was Greenwich and
something.  I don't know.  Oh, you know what, it was
right in front of the Travelers Insurance building
because we used the umbrella as a marker.  This two
story umbrella logo thing.
          So at some point in my walking down there and
starting to do the staging and writing down the units,
a fellow walks up named Harold Watkins, and says yo.
He is in a polo shirt, one of our uniform polo shirts
and uniform pants and shoes and looks well, just kind
of bewildered, but looks like he is in uniform and
J. CAHILL
15
ready to go.  I said hey, how you doing.  Who are you.
He said oh, my name is Harold Watkins, I'm a fire cadet
and I work at the Fire Museum on my off -- as well.
          I saw this all going on so I thought I would
come and lend a hand.  So Harold and I went around and
did all this interviewing.  When the order came to
move, actually John Clair came through there as well
while we were there.  But I don't know.  Time really
didn't have that much relevance to me.  There were no
patients under my care so there was no time vitals,
none of that stuff.  We were just there for the
duration of the job.  So time really didn't mean much
to me.
          At some point we started to bug out.  Some of
the vehicles had trouble.  One of them had burst a
radiator hose or had a leaky radiator hose, so we
started to organize getting a couple of vehicles jump
started.  John Clair had Joe Fell from the State with
him.
     Q.   (inaudible)?
     A.   Yes, just as I remember stuff.  We pulled out
of there.  We had to jump start two or three vehicles.
One vehicle had, like I said, a leaking hose so we put
them further up in the line and said, you know, if you
J. CAHILL
16
can't make it any further, pull on to the sidewalk out
of the way.  We told all the vehicles behind them if
you see them pull out on the sidewalk out of the way,
you need to stop and pick them up, you know.
          The reason we were given for why we were
moving was that 7 World Trade Center was going to
collapse or was at risk of collapsing.  So we must have
been somewhere in this area where we would have had a
problem with that.  But I honestly don't remember.  It
all looks -- I'm fairly familiar with this, actually
this, from West Side Highway east almost to the river
or certainly past City Hall from Liberty or not even --
from the Battery Tunnel opening north to Vesey, I'm
fairly familiar with because I have travelled through
there commuting a lot.
          I drove through there the day after, the
morning of the 12th and I didn't recognize most of the
places I was.  It all looked very different.  It all
looked like those videos you see of Pongo Pongo, a
little island in the South Pacific has had a volcanic
eruption and all the ash is falling out of the air.  It
was just -- I don't know exactly where we were.
          We must have been up in this area somewhere.
I know there was a physician's group -- would have been
J. CAHILL
17
on the north, or the south of one of these streets.
     Q.   Like Warren, Murray?
     A.   Something like that.  We had to have been in
that range because --
     Q.   On this street?
     A.   Yes, because they were worried about us.
They wanted us to move the treatment sector because of
7 World Trade Center was imminently to collapse, which,
of course, it did.  In fact it did while we were
moving.
          So this guy Harold Watkins and I, not having
a vehicle, everybody else was moving out, I told Ed,
you know what, we will start walking back up and we
will meet you there.  There was a volunteer unit and I
don't remember from where, that was parked on the --
would have been the west part of the intersection.  It
was an odd shaped intersection too, in that it was
almost like-- it was a triangular intersection where
there was two roads coming north-south that came
together, joined -- I wonder if we weren't here.  I
don't think so.  We might have been here up by like
West Broadway, because -- yes, you know what, I think
we were on Broadway.  We would have been right in here
between Broadway and West, like around Murray or Park.
J. CAHILL
18
The police had one of these eastern cross streets
blocked off, like I said, with the suspicious package,
which looked like a suitcase or an old fashioned
briefcase.
          So Watkins and I walked back up and met the
rest of the group at Greenwich, at the Travelers
building.  Got to chasing a few stragglers up.  The
rest of the group set up there.  I don't know what
happened to Platt.  I didn't see him again.  I don't
remember where he ended up.  I did see when I got to
the Travelers building, which maybe that wasn't where
we were originally headed.  Maybe that isn't Greenwich
and something.  Maybe they ended up setting up another
treatment sector somewhere else.
          When we got to the Travelers building, there
was a huge amount of units.  There must have been 20,
25 units there.  But there was an enormous amount of
people.  There was a queue of like 3,000 people waiting
to help.  There was some enormous firefighter.  I don't
know if he was our Firefighter or from somewhere else.
The bunker gear, he didn't have the jacket so you
couldn't really tell, but his bunker gear didn't look
like ours.  I don't remember why.  It was the wrong
color or the wrong something.  His job was essentially
J. CAHILL
19
to organize the volunteers.
          What he did was he organized them.  They were
moved over here.  They had a little briefing.  Then
they moved them over here.  Then they had another
little briefing.  Then they moved them over here.  They
essentially just paraded them around this section,
because there wasn't anything for them to do, because
they couldn't send them into the unsafe zone, but there
was huge amounts of people.
          So again, I remember seeing there, I remember
seeing Tommy from Bellevue.   What the hell was his
name.  Used to be Chief Pascale's aide when I was their
Division coordinator.  I will think of it.  I can
picture him.  Eppinger, was there.  There were at least
two other Lieutenants there.  So I slipped into the
familiar -- now familiar role of staging officer and
Harold Watkins and I walked around to all the units,
who are you?  Where are you from?  What are your shield
numbers?  You know.  All right, take a roll of 2 inch
tape.  What's your normal 911 designation, good.  Put
that on the windshield.  Don't have one?  Okay, you are
now Jersey City one.  You are Jersey City two.  We
labeled all the windshields with who they were.  We
stayed there for a while.  Again I don't really know,
J. CAHILL
20
time was really kind of meaningless.  I know we had at
least one command car there.  One of the supervisors
had a car, because we were storing some stuff in it.
Now my briefcase ended up in Pinky's car real early
on.
          So we didn't see a whole lot of patients
there.  I don't think we saw any patients there.
Sometime during the day a guy in what looked like -- he
was in battle dress fatigues, he looked like he was
from the National Guard, but I don't know.  David
something.  Came up, said hey, you know, we got a
hospital over in the Borough of Manhattan Community
College and we got no transport resources.  So the
supervisors and I and him talked about that for a
minute.
          I got the assignment to walk down there with
him, see what was going on down there, because as far
as we knew at that point, at least in that location, by
Travelers, we had abandoned the location in BMCC.  Went
back there and there was in fact a really big operation
cranking up there, between Port Authority and I don't
even know where they were from.
          An emergency room physician had brought like
a bunch of his staff and the Red Cross was helping out
J. CAHILL
21
and they were unloading truck loads of shit into this
place.  Stretchers, you know, little folding stretchers
the Red Cross had, blankets, medicines, not a lot of
medicines, like a lot of eye wash and aspirin and stuff
like that.  The Port Authority occupied another piece
of it and they were bringing in all kinds of stuff.
Brought cases of rubber boots, work gloves,
flashlights, all kinds of stuff like that.
          What essentially -- I came in agreement with
the doctor that was running there is that, you know
what, as long as the Port Authority will let us park,
because they were controlling that block.  As long as
they will let us park there, we will keep an ALS and a
BLS there.  You use them?  Send somebody up to us.  Let
us know where they are going and we will send you
another bus.
          That's where we kept it.  We had a lot of
problems with parking and stuff, moving around.  That's
where we kept it.  I don't think they transported maybe
a handful of patients.  They saw a huge amount of
patients, flushed their eyes and stuff.  I know a bunch
of the Port Authority guys went out to the pharmacies
and brought stuff back.
          After that, a couple of different times, I
J. CAHILL
22
went back and forth between those two locations,
Travelers and BMCC, but I don't think they really saw a
whole lot of patients.  They ended up setting up food
there, so they probably saw a whole lot of EMS people.
What?
          Sometime later on, I don't even remember how
much later, I walked down to Chambers, which is what,
this one, to the command post at Chambers and west
side, and I saw Chief McCracken, talked to some of the
other people there.  Saw Lieutenant Cronin, and saw
John Clair and was given the direction to start
organizing, breaking down the BMCC hospital, because no
one was aware that BMCC was there.  They had already
set up another hospital in Stuyvesant, which they are
literally 3 blocks apart.
          So I went back, talked to the doc, I said
listen, you know, there is another hospital right down
the block.  They are going to catch all the patients
because they are closer to the scene.  What we would
like to do is split up your materials and your
personnel, send some up it up to the pier and some of
it down to this other hospital.  It's a more effective
way of doing it.
          He was very amenable to that.  What that
J. CAHILL
23
ended up meaning is we split up his personnel from the
equipment, took all the equipment that they didn't want
to -- stuff they wanted to take, I mean, obviously was
theirs.  But then I think they only took the expensive
equipment that they had personally brought.
          We moved everything else down to Stuyvesant,
which we used I guess a couple of busses from -- I want
to say Metro Care, but I'm not sure if that's right.
It was definitely one of the big commercials.  They had
25 units lined up on the West Side Highway at that
time.  Like 18 of them ALS.  Some of them from as far
away as Connecticut.  We used 2 or 3 of them, and there
was a van there, a regular passenger van from the
academy with a driver.  I don't know that guy's name,
but we used those three vehicles to move the stuff down
into Stuyvesant.  Put stuff in Stuyvesant.
          At sometime during this, the Division 6 ALS
coordinator, Al Suriel, arrived with a truck full of
pharmaceuticals from our pharmacy.  Had to be early on,
because I remember bringing some of them up to Borough
of Manhattan Community College and trading them for
stuff we need.  Truthfully, my whole day from that
point on essentially doing what I do best, take a
little stuff from over here, give it to this guy over
J. CAHILL
24
here.  Oh, what, you have extra, good, take that from
over here, bring that over there.  Take some stuff
extra from over here, bring it back to the first place.
     Q.   Bargaining?
     A.   Yes, and just, unfortunately, the whole thing
 -- well, what we obviously didn't know at the time,
but unfortunately the whole thing was, you know, when
you work the marathon in one of the tents, what happens
is that like about two and a half hours in, everybody
starts getting really antsy and if you don't stay on
top of controlling the tent, what you end up with is
400 sets of IV fluids set up around the tent and that's
exactly what was going on.
          People were starting to get antsy to see
patients.  There was no one to see.  I think a lot of
movement of equipment was probably unnecessary, but
kept people out of trouble too, which is okay.  They
did see -- I know Stuyvesant and BMCC saw a large
amount of crap in the eyes, crap in the lungs.  Got a
boo-boo.  Doesn't need a stitch, no, good, I'm back to
work kind of thing.
          So that's pretty much what I did the rest of
the night.  Al Suriel had a MUP student with him,
because he was at refresher when he got paged.  Her
J. CAHILL
25
first name was Ronnie, I don't know what her last name
is.
     Q.   Were they there prior to the collapse or
after the collapse?
     A.   Probably not, probably not.
     Q.   We are mainly interested in people that were
there prior.
     A.   Then we are done.  I'm already into the
evening at this point.
     Q.   Anything else you would like to add?
Comments, feelings.
     A.   No, I think that probably the biggest
impression I got out of this whole thing was this is
probably as close to being in an infantry unit that
gets overrun.  We are scattered everywhere.  Nobody
knew where anybody was.  Nobody knew who was in
charge.  It really felt for a moment that I was in
Apocalypse Now, where Martin Sheen goes, where is your
CO?  Ain't that you?  No.  Uh-oh.
          Let's pause for a second.
          MR. ECCLESTON:  Pausing the tape at 12:50.
          (Pause)
          MR. ECCLESTON:  This interview is being
     restarted again at 1:10.
J. CAHILL
26
     Q.   Can you please continue with the events.
     A.   Yes, I mean I think where we left off was
essentially recounting what happened the rest of my
night, which was at different points shortages would
show up in the Stuyvesant hospital.  They need more
fluid, I would find fluid for them.  They need more eye
drops, I would find eye drops for them.  I remember we
moved the multi-lator and the big M tank from the van
at the bureau of training center, brought it inside,
set it up, treat asthma.  We made a little asthma booth
out.
          After that, there was a whole bunch of false
starts where BOT were going to take people back and
eventually Al Suriel and Ronnie went back with them to
BOT because they were both in refresher and MUP class
respectively.
          I took over control of the pharmacy truck.  I
went to the command center and essentially stood by
there for direction, because -- I hung out in the MERV
for a while.  All this stuff, it was already dark by
this time.  It was already early the next morning.
          Then at the end of the day I walked back up
to Christopher Street and another postal employee gave
me a lift.
J. CAHILL
27
     Q.   Back to the train?
     A.   Back to the train.  I took the train home.
     Q.   Is there anything else you would like to add
to this in regard to the events that happened prior to
12 noon?
     A.   You know what, I have been over it because
I'm sure everybody else has as well.  I have been over
it in my head a great deal since then.  I can't think
of anything we could have significantly done better,
but truthfully, the section I was in up on West Side
Drive certainly north of Chambers for most of the day
was not where the action was.  It really wasn't where,
you know, it wasn't where command post got collapsed on
or treatment sectors got collapsed on.  It certainly
wasn't where I expect any of the missing, our missing,
EMS missing people, would be from.
          So I don't know.
          MR. ECCLESTON:  Okay.  Thank you very much
     for conducting this interview with me.  This
     interview is being concluded at 113 hours.

F i l e No. 9110086
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW LIEUTENANT BRUCE MEDJUCK
Interview Date: October 15, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins

B. MEDJUCK 2
MS. BASTEDENBECK: The time is now 1123 hours. My name is Christine Bastedenbeck.
I work for the New York City Fire Department. Today I'm conducting an interview with the following individual.
Please state your name, rank, title, your assigned command area of the Fire Department.
LIEUTENANTMEDJUCK: BruceMedjuck, Lieutenant, assigned to EMS operations.
MS. BASTEDENBECK: Also present at the interview today is - -
MR. ECCLESTON: Christopher Eccleston of the New York City Fire Department, World Trade disaster task force.
Q. Lieutenant Medjuck, we're going to ask
you if you could please give us a synopsis of the events that happened September llth, 2001, in regards to yourself.
A. Okay. Begin?
Q. Yes.
A. I don't know. Tuesday morning I was
up - - actually I had done my little tasks in the office, some small tasks. Then I had come

B. MEDJUCK
upstairs to the office of medical affairs, and I was talking to Paramedic Delgado when we received a phone call from a representative of the New York State Department of Health. Mr. Farrell called in and asked us what was going on at the World Trade Center. We were completely unaware of what was going on. It had to be about 8:30, quarter to 9. We were not sure what time it was.
So we walked over to Laurie Santo, who was sitting at a computer that had CAD and we looked it up, the call, and she said that a plane had just hit the World Trade Center.
So at that point Dr. Cherson walked over and told Manny, "Let's go." The pagers started going off, that the plane had just hit, you know, the group pager.
So I actually ran downstairs to the office. By the time I ran back to operations, Lieutenant Mann and Lieutenant Nevins were getting radios from Lieutenant Frick and they were running out of the building.
So Captain Olszewski and I - - I grabbed a set of radios and all of my equipment. We went downstairs to Captain Olszewski's car, which was

B. MEDJUCK
parked in the outdoor parking lot. We got into one of the Chevy Luminas. I ' m not sure of the number.
I had called the RCC supervisor, which was Lieutenant Vitale at the time, and asked her to log us on, responding into the incident. We actually had to respond there down Flatbush Avenue without my lights and sirens trying to get through traffic.
Janice was driving, and we got into the -- they l e t us onto the Brooklyn Bridge.
There was were just emergency
nothing on the Brooklyn Bridge. There emergency vehicles, a l l unmarked vehicles responding in front of us.
I would note as we were coming out of
the girder part of the Brooklyn Bridge just as you could see it clearing. We saw when we first started to go over the Brooklyn Bridge, the building smoking, tower one smoking, heavy black smoke coming out. Just as we came out of the bridge, we could see again the towers also with the plane come and slam into tower two.
There was like a little bit of delay, and then all of a sudden this fire ball just shot

B. MEDJUCK
out of the opposite side of the tower. When we saw -- I said to Janice: Did you see that, did you see that? She said no, I had my hands on the steering wheel; I ' m watching the road.
So we came off of the bridge, and we actually went straight onto Chambers Street,
where we came out. You know how the bridge lets you off by Chambers Street. We were trying to cut through all this traffic on Chambers Street in a car without any lights or sirens. Janice is driving as best as she could.
We cut across to West Street, and on West Street we cut left and went over to Vesey. By that time there were emergency vehicles a l l over the place. I told Janice just park the car on the corner of West and Vesey, which I marked on the map with a 1 next to it. We parked actually on the southwest corner.
We got out, and just as we got out of the car we had noticed -- we went right up to Chief Gombo who was there already. He was with Ross Terranova. Ross was operating the radio. Lieutenant Davila was just coming up to talk to Chief Gombo, along with Captain Pinkus.

B. MEDJUCK
Who else? I think that was really it for supervisors. I noticed out of the corner of my eye Chief Ganci's driver/aide Steve Mosiello.
He was there.
Chief Gombo told myself and Janice - -
he said something and then Rene Davila disappeared. Chief Gombo told myself and Janice to go over to the other side of the building on Church Street and set up a triage area, which was at the corner of Church and Fulton on the southeast corner, which I marked by a number 2. We were right in front of the Millennium Hotel.
Then Lieutenant Davila came over there, and we were pretty much working out the
logistics - - I mean, there were a lot of patients coming out of the buildings, a lot of people coming out, mostly with minor stuff going on. We were trying to organize what was going on, but there was just so much going on so quickly that we really didn't have a chance to really get a whole treatment and triage area established.
I do remember when we were coming over from West and Vesey we went down - - we went east on Vesey Street. I remember just as we came past

B. MEDJUCK
the PATH train by Seven World Trade, the entrance to the PATH train over there, just as we came out from underneath that underpass right there, we saw a whole bunch of what I thought -- and I
don't know but I thought was airplane parts, pieces of the airplane.
I commented to Janice -- I was commenting in my own words about all of this -- a l l these pieces of plane that were hanging
out -- that were just laying on the ground.
I got over to the other side. We set up the area. I remember there were people coming up asking us if they could help, people that were trained, doctors and nurses. Everybody was volunteering to help. They were just dragging people out to us in the area there.
I remember that Dr. Cherson came up at some point with Manny Delgado, helping us out over there. There were a whole bunch of units.
I remember the Beekman unit was there. There were BLS units. Cabrini was there, New York Hospital. Cornell was there. There were some EMS units. I remember Alex Loudski being there, doing some tracking for Lieutenant Davila.

B. MEDJUCK
And then I remember someone coming up to me and telling me they were 49 Henry, a haztac truck, and they took out their hazmat tape and they cordoned off the whole area. We started to get people who weren't patients, throwing them out of the area and just bringing patients in there.
Let me see what else. There were a whole bunch of people coming over to us, units just coming in and telling us that they were helping us out. And I really don't remember a l l the units because there was -- a lot of it's a blur.
I remember them telling us that some cops came out of the building -- after we had started to establish in this chaotic area, a triage area. Even though it was chaotic, we
s t i l l had some -- something going on there. We had divided all the stable people and all the critical people. We were taking and moving out the critical people as they came. We were actually starting to move out the stable people, some of the stable people, also.
I remember cops coming out of the World

B. MEDJUCK
Trade Center saying that there were a whole bunch of people stuck in an elevator shaft and that they needed us to go in there and bring them out. We were like you have to bring them out to us.
Some ESU cops -- the next thing I remember was quickly getting from one of the medics reevaluating patients and who really was -- we did a whole re-triaging the critical and non-critical patients.
I remember them then bringing out this lady on a door that they had made a makeshift long board for her. They put her on the board, and she had burns on her and she had this back injury.
I remember Dr. Cherson saying that we have no time, because there was a doctor there also that wanted to do, you know, multi traumas with sterile -- with water and everything for the burns. Dr. Cherson was saying, we need to get these critical patients out of here, go to the hospital.
I remember there was a lot of -- and you couldn't control it. A lot of -- as
ambulances were coming in, patients, they weren't

B. MEDJUCK
even getting to the triage area but they were just getting loaded up with patients and going.
I remember Commissioner Drury coming up to me and saying to me, "Where is the command post?" I sent him to the other side to West Street.
Cops coming and helping. Everyone was just coming and helping, but it was so chaotic.
Actually now it's kind of like really a blur. Then I just remember that, distinct
noise like an airplane being on a runway and it's ready to take off. I heard the loud roaring of like the engines, and I thought another plane was hitting the building.
Someone yelled run. I looked up, and the top of the tower I saw was starting to move over. It was bending like it was going to come down. Everybody started running. I ran up the block, and I didn't know what to do. I was all confused. I mean, everyone was running. People were falling on the floor. Nobody was helping to do anything. Everybody was just running for their life.
I know I made it about a third of the

B. MEDJUCK
way up the block, and I went to go get underneath a car, the trunk area of the car. I slid underneath there. And as I slid underneath there, this big blast just came and knocked me down the rest of the way.
I remember my helmet falling off, and I was in the fetal position underneath the car. As I turned my head to see what was going on, to see if I could see underneath the car, because I really didn't know what was happening, I thought a plane had actually hit the building, a third plane. It was just this huge blast of smoke that hit me in the face, white smoke. Then it was pitch-black. I couldn't even see.
I didn't think I was going to die from stuff falling; I thought I was going to die from the asphyxiation. It was just incredible. I couldn't breathe. I was trying to spit this stuff out. I'm feeling around for my helmet because I really don't know what's going on.
I looked over my shoulder. It's pitch-black, and I remember seeing this ball of flames shooting down the street, and then it just sucked right back into itself. It went away.

B. MEDJUCK
Then it started to clear up.
There was a lady in front of me leaning
underneath the car, and I asked the lady if she was okay. She kept saying to me: No, I'm not okay, no, I'm not okay. I didn't know, if she wasn't okay, I couldn't do anything really for her.
So I had gotten up, out from underneath the car, and I looked around. It was still white smoke, like you couldn't breathe. For some reason I walked back towards the Trade Center, and I walked in the whole area that we had just had the triage area. I remember leaving people there, the critical people that couldn't walk, that they dragged out and they weren't there anymore. Nothing.
Ambulances were trashed over there. There were cars that were parked in the middle of the street, marked, unmarked police cars. I don't know who they belonged to. Things were just crushed and blown out.
I was walking around. I was walking towards the Trade Center, and someone - - an EMT came up to me and kept on saying, Bruce, are you

B. MEDJUCK
okay, are you okay. It was Jai Zion of Battalion 4. I was like yeah, I'm okay, I'm okay.
He said come with me. I said no, I've got to look for everybody. I've got to start to regroup everybody. He's said no, come with me, come with me. I really don't have time for this. I said you go and come with me to the area.
Then I started walking back up the block in the opposite direction of the Trade Center, and I ran into - - the first one that I ran into that I knew was Bill Melarango, Lieutenant Melarango. I saw him. He was walking up the block. He turned around and walked up the block.
Then I ran into - - at the corner of Broadway and Fulton, I ran into Jay Swithers. I also remember running into Bonnie - - I don't know what Bonnie's last name is. She works down in BHS. She's a medic who worked down in BHS. I don't know what her last name was. I remember running into her, and she was helping someone walk.
I got on the radio at this point, because I had a radio with me. I told them - - I

B. MEDJUCK
heard Captain Sickles on the radio, talking on the radio now. I told him that we were regrouping and we were now at Broadway and Fulton for a triage area.
We found an ambulance that was just driving into the area, and we stopped them. We had a whole bunch of people just coming to the ambulance. People were bringing out stuff from stores, wheel barrows, garbage cans filled with water and drink and stuff like that.
I remember going i n t o t h e ambulance looking for a mask, and I couldn't find one. So I took a cravat and I tied it around my face like a bandanna so I wouldn't get killed by this
smoke.
I don't even know how long we were there. I remember Captain Sickles on the radio telling us that we needed resources over there. I remember seeing a fireman riding a motorcycle coming -- driving down there.
I was talking to Jai and trying to say to Jai I lost Janice, I lost Phil Ashby. He was a medic that was with us. You know, all the people that I didn't know where they were.

B. MEDJUCK
Anybody who was with us in our triage area, I had no clue as to where they were.
Then I ran into Dr. Cherson, and he's like where's Manny Delgado? We couldn't find Manny. We were looking for Manny. So we were like let's get this triage area and we'll find him. So now we were getting the triage area back in order, and he was helping us out.
We didn't know what was going on really with anybody. I remember seeing Car 33 pull up and Lieutenant Mendez was in the car and
Dr. Garcia was in the car. I don't know who else. And Jai was there and his ambulance crew. I remember St. John's paramedics were there in this area.
We were getting overwhelmed with patients. We were just throwing patients into the ambulance. There were people coughing up, lying on the ground there.
Then before - - all I know is that someone yelled another building - - the next building - - the other building's coming down. I didn't even hear the rumble this time. I just started running. I ran up a block. I didn't

B. MEDJUCK
know what block a t the time it was, but I figured out afterwards where I came out. I ran up Ann Street.
I was running up Ann Street, and there was a bay door open, a loading dock bay door. I saw a few people running i n there, and I ran i n there. I ran in, kept running into the bay. I rested on like the step where the trucks back up into to make it level.
I remember them yelling close the door, close the door, close the door. All I know is I looked over my shoulder and I saw that big mushroom cloud coming in the door again. I
jumped up on the bay, on the dock, and I ran into the building with all these other people running into the building.
I just kept running, down -- everybody was running down two stories. I was running down two stories with them. We went into the
basement, and I remember was with us. It was just me and him in this building. I told
-- I said, come on, we've got to go back upstairs. He said I'm not going back upstairs, I can't, I can't. Okay, stay down here, I'm going

B. MEDJUCK
to go upstairs and check it out.
We couldn't find our way out of the
building. We eventually came out i n some diner that was part of the building, a little restaurant, that was part of the building. Everybody was in there: cops, people -- I remember I ran into a traffic agent telling me that she was having an asthma attack. I told her to just sit there, relax, I don't have any equipment with me.
Then I came out of the building and I was like -- now it was a ghost town. I mean, after the second tower came down, Broadway -- there were cars, emergency vehicles a l l over the place, but there was nobody to be found.
So I walked out. Again I ran into
Dr. Cherson, for the second time. Every time a tower dropped, I'd find him. He was the only one that I would find. So this time I decided to stick with him.
We found Pat Scaringello there. He was walking around in a daze. I said come on. I hear on the radio -- now I'm not talking on the radio. My battery is going dead. It's

B. MEDJUCK
beeping - - it was one of those new radios. It was beeping away. I told him that I heard them on the radio anyone south of the event should go to the ferry terminal; everybody north should go to Chelsea Piers.
So I was like - - we're right smack in themiddle. Let'sstartmakingourway. Itold Dr. Cherson and Scaringello let's start making our way to the ferry terminal. So we said, you know what, we're not taking any chances. I said let's walk along the water so it's all clear.
So I remember we started walking the wrong way. We were walking north on Broadway, becausewereallydidn'tknowwherewewere. I workedlowerManhattan. IremembertheBrooklyn Bridge. I remember people coming off.
I remember we started to walk north on Broadway, and we saw this unmarked car - - we didn't know who it belonged to - - and a cop, an ESU cop, in the car in the passenger seat not moving. We were banging on the window. He didn't do anything. We opened the door, and he was in there petrified. We just closed the door and left him.

B. MEDJUCK
We had seen an ambulance come over. They were going back t o Brooklyn. They were getting out of there. Then we started walking in the right direction, and we walked up some
street. I don't even know what street we walked up. I think it was Fulton Street. We ended up walking up, me, Dr. Cherson and Pat Scaringello, walking up Fulton Street to the east side to the seaport.
We found the St. John's medics -- we found the ambulance from St. John's. There was nobody in it, and it was running.
Then we were walking up to where we found Manny Delgado right by Beekman Hospital.
He was in that little square by Fulton Street -- and I don't even know what the heck the name of the street was. We found him standing there. So we got him together, and Pat.
Then we hiked it. First I went to the ER to see who was in the ER. I saw a lot of ambulances there. I was trying to gather everybody to get them. But none of them were our ambulances. They a l l belonged t o the volunteers.
I walked inside to the ER, and it was a

B. MEDJUCK
madhouse i n the ER, people a l l over the place. I remember saying you know what, I can't do anything here, there's nobody from us. So I walked out with Scaringello and left him there. He didn't want to come with us to the ferry terminal.
So me, Manny and the doctor hiked it to the ferry terminal, and that's where we found Chief Basile standing there with Louie Cook. We were talking with him, and he said that we were putting together a treatment area up on the second floor of the ferry terminal, and he put me in charge of it, going to put it all together with Lisa Desena. She was the ALS coordinator for Division 4.
So we were there. We set up everything over there. We set up everything over there, and we were just -- people were coming in dribs and drabs, but more emergency personnel. They were making this a staging area.
That was it. I mean, we stayed there until like 4:OO. They brought food in. I ran into EMT Zion again. I mean, there were no real specifics going on there. That was the first

B. MEDJUCK
time I ran into Chief McCracken. The first time was there where I ran into him with Pauline Cronin.
I got to use the phone for the first time. His phone was the only phone. I tried on my cell phone to make phone calls to tell someone I was okay. I couldn't get through. So I finally got through on Chief McCracken's phone.
I called here and spoke t o Kathleen McCrory t o call my wife and my mother to tell them I was okay.
A lot of people were coming into the ferry terminal. I remember that off of the boats -- firemen were coming off of the boats from Staten Island. We set up a whole treatment and triage area over there.
And we stayed there until like 4:OO. Then we wanted to get out of there. So I left Chief Basile, Louie Cook, Chief Villani was there and a whole bunch of other people. We decided it was time for us to leave.
Me, Manny and the doctor found his car. We walked back to Broadway and Fulton, found his car and drove his car out of there and went to

B. MEDJUCK
Battalion 4 to clean up. Some guy cleaned our car for us at Battalion 4. We were in
Dr. Cherson's car, because the car I drove over there, I have no idea what had happened to it.
They told us - - after we got done at Battalion 4 and making phone calls - - because they actually had phones working at the time. I remember calling the office here, and this was like after 4:00 already.
SothenI-- whatdidwedo? Wewere coming back to Metrotech here after 4:00, and they told us on the radio that they wanted us to go to Chambers and West Street to the command post there. So we drove back there, and we stayed there till - - I stayed there till like 10:OO at night.
Dr. Cherson was doing what he had to do. Manny Delgado, about five minutes before me, caughtaridebacktoMetrotech. Icaughtaride back. I took Chief McCracken's car back to Metrotech at 10:OO at night with Lieutenant Cronin. There was someone else in the car with us; I can't remember who. Some Chief's aide came back with us? I don't remember who came back

B. MEDJUCK
with us here to Metrotech.
We cleaned off the car. They brought
me back in here and it was like go downstairs, get into uniform, take a shower. Then I took a shower and went home, and that was it for the day.
To think about the people, a l l the EMTs that were lost and the medics that were lost in the World Trade Center, were a l l from our one triage area. And I don't know whether it was after the first collapse or the second collapse, because I never saw them -- I never saw anybody from our triage area after the first collapse.
I was like I don't even know why I didn't go -- I never went back to West Street. I remember things like Captain Olszewski telling me in the triage area, maybe it would be a good idea to move the triage area back a little bit and I told her no, everything looked like it was starting to get organized. We wanted to set up a staging area, and we had set one up and it wasn't working because units were coming in from all over the place and just parking all over the street.

B. MEDJUCK
So I said well, let's just leave them park on Church Street. Janice said all that debris down there. I said that's the whole
point, nobody's going to go down into that area because -- this was before the buildings collapsed. There's debris there, but there's like no one going over that area. So that would be a good area to start parking the ambulances, because I had seen the command car from Battalion 4 parked there.
I don't know. I think that's -- you run in with Dr. -- with other people. You start talking to them. Like I was talking to Jay Swithers, telling me when I saw him, you know, that things had occurred that I don't even remember, because people were asking me like the most ridiculous things like are any ACRs being done on these patients, any tracking being done on these patients.
I was like you guys have got to be kidding. Like who really cares about that right now? There were so many patients there, we have no way of tracking them, you know. I couldn't believe supervisors were actually asking me these

B. MEDJUCK
questions. I was like to hell with it. You get your tracking done at another time.
I remember Amy Monroe in our triage area. I remember she was in charge of the transportation end of it. Everybody who had transportation, Captain Olszewski told her to take transportation for our area. So she was handling that.
I don't know. It's all like kind of a blur. The worst part about it is just
remembering that thick, black smoke and that you couldn't breathe in it and worrying what was going to happen to me, am I going to die right here and now.
The other thing that went through my mind was after I realized it was a terrorist attack, when the building came down, I didn't know it was the building coming - - I thought a third plane had hit the building, causing the building to come down. The things that went through my mind was there chemical warfare going on now. I mean, what's going on? I didn't realize - - I had no concept of what was going on So many things going through your head.

B. MEDJUCK
That was really about it, that I remember. Little things that I don't remember, someone - - how people tell you about it and you just - - oh, yeah, that did happen. They refresh your memory. But that's about all that I can remember from my memory right now.
Q. Anything else you wanted to add, Bruce? A. No.
MS. BASTEDENBECK: This concludes our interview with Lieutenant Bruce Medjuck. The time now is 1155 hours.
          Thanks, Bruce.
-
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
     EMS LIEUTENANT CHARLES FRASER
   Interview Date:  October 16, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
File No. 9110087
C. FRASER
2
          MR. FEILER:  Today's date is October 16th,
2001.  The time now is 1007 hours and this is Monty
Feiler of the Fire Department of the City of New York.
I am conducting an interview with the following
individual:
     Q.   Please state your name, rank and assigned
command.
     A.   Lieutenant Charles Fraser, EMS Division 4.
     Q.   Of the New York City Fire Department.
          We're conducting the interview at the
conference room of the Division 4 EMS command at Queens
General and the interview is regarding the events of
September 11th, 2001.  Also present for the interview
is.
          MS. MAGGI:  Diana Maggi, investigations and
trials.
     Q.   Go ahead, sir.  We're looking into your
participation in the World Trade Center incident.
     A.   The morning of the incident, I was at the EMS
Academy at Fort Totten in Queens and we were alerted
that there was a plane crash at the World Trade
Center.  We saw a small clip of it on television.
Shortly thereafter I was advised to start out to the
scene with Lieutenant James Scullion.  That was at the
C. FRASER
3
direction of Chief Charlie Wells that they were doing a
recall of the hazmat trained and special operations
division supervisors.
          I started out in the Bronco with him.  He was
driving and he said that we had gotten Charlie Wells on
the cell phone and he said to direct ourselves into the
lobby of 2 World Trade Center and set up operations
there and that we would just coordinate with him what
needed to be done.  We took the Brooklyn-Queens
Expressway over to the Brooklyn Bridge, and I recall we
got about a quarter of the way onto the bridge and
there were thousands of people just evacuating into
Brooklyn over the bridge.  As we headed into Manhattan,
I looked over and we started to see the first tower
come down, just a devastating sight, to the point where
we had to physically stop because there were police
cars in front of us.  We looked over and I remember
thinking, oh, my God, you'll never see this in your
life again, and I remember actually blessing myself
with the sign of a cross thinking, my God, there were
people in there, there were guys in there, let alone
our people, between police, fire and civilians.
          We came over the bridge, we went over Park
Row, past City Hall, which they looked like they were
C. FRASER
4
attempting to secure and lock that down.  We came down
Park Row to Fulton Street, we came across Fulton, and
as we pulled up on Church Street, we got out of the
vehicle, we started to get on our bunker pants and get
dressed ready to go into 2 World Trade when the second
building started to come down and we heard on the radio
a lot of people screaming Mayday, evacuate, it's coming
down.  We started to look up and we could see what
looked like the top of this tower coming down at us,
and then like a roller coaster, like a wooden roller
coaster sound, and just bodies all over the ground,
hitting the ground.
          We got into the vehicle, we started to pull
out, we made a tight U-turn and we actually struck two
metal parking stanchions that were in the way because
there were a lot of vehicles on the street that we were
trying to get around, and as we struck these two, the
bumper came up into the front end of the vehicle and
then on top of that two emergency service officers
jumped onto the back of the vehicle and actually threw
their weapons into the back window and jumped onto the
vehicle, and I watched through the rear as people just
like disappeared into the black smoke.  We made it
about a half a block to the east on Fulton and we
C. FRASER
5
stopped the vehicle.  We couldn't proceed any further
and we were just engulfed in a cloud.  You couldn't see
probably five feet in front of you, and then it just
got darker and darker, the wind picked up, and then
this stuff started hitting the vehicle, just large
chunks of computer monitors and concrete and panes of
glass.  Then Jimmy Scullion with was able to get the
vehicle started again.  We drove up further.  We
actually drove out of it onto Park Row and we stopped
at Park Row and we waited I'd say probably about ten
minutes or so because you just couldn't proceed.  You
couldn't see where you were going.  You couldn't move.
          We walked back down Fulton Street to Church,
and when we got to Church Street, I guess we were on
like Barclay and Church, we had noticed that there was
a large setup of police emergency service.  That's
where we encountered the first EMS unit, 49 Henry.  It
was Kevin Barrett and Brendan Mulroy, two of our hazmat
trained EMTs.  We grouped them up and took them with
us, and the next thing we did, I ran into Chief
McCracken's son and he had come in to the scene and he
had been inquiring if anybody had heard of his father.
I didn't hear him on the radio.  I'd heard Captain
Deshore on the radio quite a bit giving updates on
C. FRASER
6
patient counts and access, and then I didn't hear her
on the radio anymore.  There was a lot of silence on
the radio.
     Q.   What frequency were you on?
     A.   I was on the Citywide command frequency.  It
was a lot of silence, nobody talking over EMS.
          Then we proceeded down into the subway
station at Barclay Street and Church because they said
that there was numerous people down there trapped
towards West Street.  We walked from Church all the way
down to Barclay and West, and we couldn't exit the
subway because there was so much debris and everything
above us, but there were people down there.  So we
ended up coming out by -- I guess back to West Street,
and as we came out on West Street, I ran into
Lieutenant Kevin Haugh, who had responded down from
Manhattan North, and what we started to do was pretty
much safety and accountability, trying to find EMTs and
medics that were just wandering.  It was like they were
shell shocked.  They had lost their partners, they
couldn't recall where they were, who they were with,
where their vehicle was.  We commandeered a city bus
that was parked on West Street and we started to put
everybody into that vehicle.
C. FRASER
7
          The next one I ran into was Chief John
Peruggia.  He was establishing a command post on West
Street by Barclay and he had assigned myself and
Lieutenant Scullion and Lieutenant Haugh to do the
safety officer and to start doing accountability and to
try and access vehicles that were down on Liberty
Street.  There were numerous ambulances, they said,
that were buried and could we get down there to ID
these vehicles and/or the people.
          As we headed on down, it ended up we couldn't
walk any further because the bridge had dropped across
West Street.  So what I ended up -- what we did was we
went into 3 Financial, the American Express Building,
we worked our way through the lobbies and we actually
came out on the other side by Liberty.  As I recall, I
think there were about ten or eleven ambulances there
and they were all buried in debris.  Two of them were
burning, actively burning.  We had taken the VIN
numbers off of them, the vehicle ID number, so that we
could match it up, and later on in the tour we went to
the Police Department and they were able to run the VIN
number and give us the vehicle number and then trace
down the crew that was with that.
          The other ambulances that were intact, we
C. FRASER
8
cleaned them off as much as we could, we spray painted
them to ID what they were, whether it was fire, one was
a Metro Care ambulance, and I remember there was a
civilian dead next to that Metro Care ambulance but
half under the vehicle and the legs were out, and as we
pulled the person out to kind of see, the whole back of
her head was blown off and it's like she was just
decapitated.  But she wasn't in a uniform.  She was in
civilian attire.  So we covered her over with a blanket
and then we ended up going through these vehicles,
getting personal effects out that we could.  You know,
crews usually have a bag with personal effects.  We
went through there and tried to ID who was even in that
vehicle.  Once we obtained that information, we gave it
to Captain Dave Fenton, who was doing accountability by
then.  This was about, I guess, 1:30, 2:00 o'clock in
the afternoon.
          Then as we proceeded on, most of the rest of
the evening I was doing safety officer work and
accountability stuff, working mainly off of the back
side by North End there, I would say, up by 2 World
Financial Center and the Winter Garden, assisting with
setting up temporary morgue and safety of EMS people
because we had a lot of off-duty people that weren't
C. FRASER
9
even tagged in the system that we didn't even know
where they were, taking down their Social Security
number, regrouping them, keeping them into a triage
treatment area.
          I think the hardest part that we had on the
overnight -- well, I would say right after and
preceding the second collapse and then on into the
afternoon was just we had no resources, we had no
equipment, we had nothing.  And radio communications,
same thing, we just couldn't get through.  You couldn't
get through no matter what you tried to do
accountability.
     Q.   The off-duty people, anybody that you
recognized, any names offhand?
     A.   I know Maureen Bartwink from Battalion 49 was
there.  She had come down with her partner, which was
Ron McCue.  They were together.  Jack O'Loughlin, a
lieutenant from Queens was there.  Early on, as a
matter of fact, we had turned over a triage area that
we set up by Park Row and Fulton Street, we had set up
a large triage treatment area prior to going into that
subway entrance.  Lieutenant Scullion and I had gotten
a few ambulance resources together along with St.
Vincent's Hospital and Lieutenant O'Loughlin said he
C. FRASER
10
would take over that sector so that we could proceed on
when we got this request that there were people in the
subway.  So I know he was there off duty.  But that's
about it that I can recall offhand.
     Q.   Did you ever enter any of the towers?
     A.   No.
     Q.   The second one or --
     A.   No.  They collapsed and on our way back we
had been sent -- we had gotten sidetracked prior to
reporting to Chief Peruggia because they said that
there were five police officers that were buried, and
that would be, I guess, I'm looking at 1 World Trade
Center, and they were in between 6 and 1 World Trade,
and we had gotten down there and ended up -- I remember
a police officer coming to me and he had a serious hand
injury, actually, it was a detective, in uniform with a
detective shield, and he had a left hand with serious,
serious injury, burned, cut down to the bone, and we
had treated him with St. Vincent's paramedics and they
had removed him to a treatment area.  But when we tried
to get up into where these officers were, it was like
walking in snow.  Every three footsteps you took, you
were back one, and it was just like in a deep, muddy
slush.
C. FRASER
11
          Most of the entry that we did was down by
around 1 World Trade and 3 World Trade later in the
afternoon because we had a lot of EMS people.  Some
were in uniform, some weren't in uniform, and they were
just wandering about, like trying to help out in
different areas.  So what we had worked to do was pull
those people out and get them into a unified treatment
area so that we'd have accountability of them.
          I'm thinking of who.  I know I had Steve
Scarinzi with me from Battalion 49.  He had come down
off duty and I linked up with him, I guess, 1:00, 2:00
o'clock in the afternoon, and I had him for a good part
of the evening with us.
     Q.   Where did you leave the Bronco?
     A.   The Bronco was left on Park Row right by I
guess Broadway, Park Row and Broadway, because right
here is a cutout on the map where there's some parking
stanchion.  We had parked it there.  There was
significant damage to the front end from us trying to
pull out.  Luckily enough, we had particulate masks
that we had found in the vehicle, so we were able to
get masks on right away because I don't think we would
have been able to proceed any further.  I mean, it was
just you couldn't breathe, it was just so thick, and
C. FRASER
12
those masks only lasted probably 15 minutes before you
were saturated.
     Q.   Is there anything else that you think is
important, any other recollections or impressions that
you'd like to add before we conclude?
     A.   Not really, no.
          MR. FEILER:  Okay.  I want to thank you on
behalf of the Department for conducting the interview
with us.  The time now is 1021 hours and this concludes
the interview.
File No. 9110088
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT SAL SANGENTI
Interview Date: October 16, 2001
S. SANGENTI
MONTE FEILER: Today’s date is October 16, 2001. The time now is 9:48. This if Monte Feiler of the Fire Department of the City of New York. I am conducting an interview with the following individual...please state your name, rank and assigned command.
SAL SANGENTI: EMT Sal Sangenti, assistant to the division 4 commander.
Q: Of the New York City Fire Department. We are conducting the interview at the conference room of the Division 4 EMS command, Queens General, regarding the events of September 11, 2001. Also present at the interview is...
DIANA MAGGI: Diana Maggi, Investigations and Trials.
Q: Go ahead starting with when you first became aware of the incident and the events surrounding that.
A: Okay, I was sitting in the office waiting for Chief Carrasquillo to come into the office, he notified me by phone telling me that we were going to the 1040 at the World Trade Center. I was aware of this because we were all monitoring CAD, and at that point myself, Jason Katz, who is Chief Day’s aide, and Captain Rivera were here and we all went into Chief Carrasquillo’s car and responded to the scene. We went to the command post and at that time, both towers were engulfed. As we were setting up, I couldn’t tell you a time frame, but at that point, when we were setting up, the first building collapsed.
Q: When you arrived, where did the vehicle stop? Where did you park?
2
S. SANGENTI
A: On West, I can’t tell you the street...I am bad with directions in Queens, but in Manhattan it was even worse. But I know we were on West.
Q: Okay, and you said you went to the EMS command post?
A: The command post there. Chief Ganci was there, Chief Gombo, Captain Sickles, Lieutenant Moore, myself, Chief Carrasquillo, Chief Browne, Jason Katz, I think that was it. All I remember.
Q: Where was that located?
A: That was across the street on West. It was in front of a parking garage. Q: Was it on the Trade Center side of West, or on the River side?
A: It was on...I don’t remember. It was, it had to be the Trade Center...
Q: Do you remember crossing over a barrier?
A: No.
Q: Okay.
A: It was on the West side, I guess the water side.
Q: Then what happened?
A: Then at that point we were there just trying to strategize and at that point,
the building collapsed. Myself and Chief Carrasquillo and numerous people ran into the garage and I found a little room to the left side of the garage. It was myself, a Port Authority female Sargent, and a detective were in the room. We had air for the first 20 seconds, then the room got engulfed. The room had air conditioning, so at that point the
3
S. SANGENTI
air started to circulate a little, and we kind of got our composure, but unfortunately, there was debris in front of the room now and we were stuck in the room. I kind of told everybody, just relax. I don’t know how I took the initiative, but I did, told everybody just relax. The woman, I wiped her face off cause she was really engulfed with the ashes. The ash and the concrete and all the other stuff, and the time frame I couldn’t tell you. But at that point we were able to get out and I finally heard a fireman who said come on, let’s go through the garage. We went through the garage and we ended up outside, I couldn’t tell you exactly where I was. I lost my whole, you know...
Q: How were you able to get out of the room?
A: Actually we kind of, it was maybe 2 1⁄2 maybe 3 feet of debris, and we just kicked it. We kicked as much as we could. It was a lot of paper, dust, actually I remember kicking a vehicle mirror. Because I stepped on it and I thought I stepped on someone’s glasses, and it was an actual mirror. At that point, we got out and we walked through the garage and came up where I couldn’t tell you.
Q: Did you have any radio or cell phones?
A: I had a radio and my own personal cell phone.
Q: Did any of them work down there?
A: No. Actually, I thought I lost my phone, but I had everything in tact, then
I couldn’t anybody. The only people I was with were the fireman, the Port Authority Sargent, and the detective. That was it.
Q: Did you get anybody’s name or commands?
S. SANGENTI
A: There were no names, and at this point that I remember, I didn’t see any EMS people at all. At that point, I really thought that Chief Carrasquillo was gone. Because the way it works is, if you ran to the sides I don’t know if you would have survived. The building was the way to go cause you had some kind of cover. That was it, and then it felt like an hour, but it was probably just minutes that I walked. I walked to probably by...I’ll tell you in a second, I’m bad with directions...it was by the water, so it has to be, I couldn’t even tell you, I’m sorry. I remember walking towards the water, I remember seeing the water, and I must have walked like four blocks and I finally saw Chief Carrasquillo.
Q: And where was he?
A: He? Again, I know he was there with Chief Gombo and Chief Kowalczyk. Hugged them and thanked them, that was it. At that point, the second collapse went and we were probably about a block away. The dust and all the other stuff hit us and at that point I couldn’t get my composure. I just sat there and relaxed and at that point we started to get everyone together, and we took it from there. We went to Chambers and West and that’s when they established a command post. Me, Ron Pfeffer, and at that point was when everyone started to come, Charlie Wells, J.P. Martin. Then everything started to, you know, fall into place.
Q: Do you know the location where you met them? Where they met you actually...
5
S. SANGENTI
A: Actually it was in the back, where’s the school? Where’s Stuyvesant? Q: I think Stuyvesant is up here by Chambers Street.
A: So what I did was I walked over here. They were gonna establish a
command post at Stuyvesant, but they weren’t sure if there was a gas leak in the school, or it was running underneath the school. So they moved everything, they moved everything to Chambers and West.
Q: Did you ever enter any of the buildings? A: The Trade Centers? No.
Q: Number 7 World Trade Center?
A: No.
Q: Did you have to treat any patients?
A: I mostly just helped. I helped a lady, she was walking, when I finally got out of the garage, there was a lady there. She was pretty much just dazed, and I helped her I said come on, keep walking, keep walking, and that was it.
Q: Is there anything else that you felt was important? Any other people that you may have seen: firefighters, EMS?
A: No, pretty much like I said, the only people that I know are the chiefs, cause I work with them. I remember seeing Chief Ganci, I remember seeing Chief Gombo, Chief Kowalczyk, Chief Carrasquillo. But once I got into the garage, I lost everyone.
-
6
S. SANGENTI
Q: Okay, anything else?
A: That’s it.
Q: I want to thank you for you time so we can conduct these interviews, and
the time is 9:57. This interview is concluded.
7
File No. 9110089
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        CHIEF PEDRO CARRASQUILLO
   Interview Date:  October 16, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
                P. CARRASQUILLO                 2
          MR. FEILER:  Today's date is October
     16th, 2001.  The time now is 9:16 hours.
     This is Monte Feiler of the Fire Department
     of the City of New York.  I am conducting on
     interview of the following individual.
          Please state your name, rank and
     assigned area of command.
          CHIEF CARRASQUILLO:  Pedro
     Carrasquillo, Division 4, EMS command.
          MR. FEILER:  Of the New York City Fire
     Department.
          We're conducting the interview in the
     conference room of Division 4 EMS command,
     the property of Queens General Hospital.
     The interview is regarding the events of
     September 11th, 2001.
          Also present is --
          MS. MAGGI:  Diana Maggi, investigations
     and trials.
     Q.   Go ahead, sir.
     A.   Heading into the office that morning,
when on the air, I heard conditions 04,
Lieutenant Rene Davila, sounding very anxious on
the radio stating that there was some form of
                P. CARRASQUILLO                 3
explosion.  I didn't catch it all.  I raised the
volume and then heard him indicate that there was
a plane that ran into the side of the World Trade
Center.
          So right away I started continuing into
Queens General.  I called citywide.  I told them
that I would be responding.  I came by Queens
General on my way from home, picked up Sal
Sangeniti, picked up Captain J.R. Rivera, and I
picked up Jason Katz, who were here waiting for
me.
          We continued in.  Then we heard the
report of a second airplane crashing into the
other tower.  Initially I thought it was just one
of the commuter planes, or one of the
sight-seeing planes along the water there, but
then when I heard the second plane, then right
away I thought it must have been terrorist
activity, but still not knowing what type of
aircraft went into the building.
          So we responded in.  Traffic was heavy.
We were able to get through into the express lane
and went in through the Midtown Tunnel, taking
the drive southbound and seeing the smoke and
                P. CARRASQUILLO                 4
seeing the World Trade Center.  At one point,
seeing the gaping hole on one of the towers and
the smoke on the other going all the way up, I
was thinking everybody from that point on up will
probably be dead if not from the smoke, certainly
from the fire.
          We took the tunnel underneath the tip
of Manhattan and came up alongside, I think it's
the New York Athletic Club.  I parked a couple
blocks before the World Trade Center just because
I didn't want to go too much closer with my
vehicle.
          I parked, got out.  People were
running.  I got out, got my helmet, got my
turnout coat.  At that point, right there, there
was some debris, and  there were some body parts
that were on the street.  Some of the police
officers were trying to cordon off those areas.
So we were very careful when we were walking.
          We went over the median onto the West
side of West Street and continued up to the
command post, which was directly across the
street from the World Trade Center.  At that
point, just before I got to the command post I
                P. CARRASQUILLO                 5
saw Jack Delaney with his medics from the New
York Hospital, Columbia Presbyterian, and they
had their vehicles diagonally parked on West
Street.  They were out in front of the vehicle.
          I called Jack and his men over because
that location didn't seem to be a safe location
because of the debris that was falling out of the
buildings.  So they came over by the command
post.  They had given them instructions, and they
took off in the south direction to their
assignment.
          I reported to the command post.  Chief
Gombo was there.  I remember seeing Chief Browne
and Jason Katz, who came with me, went with Chief
Brown.  They got their assignment, and they
headed in a south direction.
          I hadn't gotten my assignment yet.  We
were talking.  Then all of a sudden we heard a
noise.  People started running.  People were
saying that the building was collapsing.  At that
point I heard the noise.  It was enough for me to
react and run.
          I didn't turn around to look.  I just
heard the noise coming down, and it was like a
                P. CARRASQUILLO                 6
jet engine, just getting louder and louder.
          At that moment I'm thinking which way
to run, north or south.  And it seemed like the
corners on either direction was falling and I
wouldn't be able to outrun this thing.  So we all
retreated into a garage that had a ramp going
down directly across the street.  I think it was
the American Express building or one of those
buildings there.
          We went in.  As we're running down, I'm
looking at where I can hide.  There were some
little cutouts as you're going down the ramp.  So
I went to one of them.  There were three other
firefighters there.  We squatted down.  Just as
we did that, everything just passed right through
into the tunnel, into the garage ramp.
          At that moment everything was just
total darkness.  You couldn't see anything.  You
couldn't breathe.  We were coughing.  I got out
my handkerchief so I could at least use that as
some type of filter.  I got a couple breaths, and
then you're just coughing.
          Firefighters there had on their
respirators, and then some of them had
                P. CARRASQUILLO                 7
flashlights.  So at least we were able to head --
we were all starting to head in the up ramp
direction going up, which is the way that we had
come down.
          I'm hearing people saying that we were
sealed in.  So right away the first thing is,
that's it, this is how we're going to die, down
here.  I remember Chief Ganci behind me, hearing
his voice, stating that we have to move up.  Up
is out.
          So we started to go up.  We're getting
towards the top, and you couldn't see.  There was
total, total darkness.  I see a flashlight
shining from the top and somebody screaming down
that this is outside.  We started working our way
up towards that light, and there was debris all
over.  So you really had to be careful on how you
were stepping because you would trip and fall.
          When we got outside, there was a
suburban right next to the entrance.  I don't
know if it was pushed up there or how it got
there.  So at that point you still couldn't see
anything, but you could see silhouettes of trees,
so we knew we were on the outside.
                P. CARRASQUILLO                 8
          I started heading north to the corner,
which is Vesey Street, and there we started to
regroup some of the people.  As I was walking
West on Vesey, I ran into Captain Stone, who
appeared to be injured.  His shoulder was hurting
him.  I saw Artie Gonzalez who was a paramedic
out of Bellevue that was there.
          Then I went into the lobby of the
American Express building.  In the lobby I ran
into a couple of other EMTs, but at that point I
really couldn't see much because I was covered in
the soot.  So I was able to get some water to
clean my face, cough, spit, gargle, trying to get
some of that soot out of me and clean my glasses.
          Then we started -- we were hearing of
possible gas leaks and possibly the next building
coming down.  So we started to get everybody
mobilized at the west -- West of West Street
by --
     Q.   I have a map.
     A.   -- Vesey and North Street, I believe it
was.  We started to go up Vesey Street, and we
started heading towards North End.  At North End
on the northeast corner there's an Embassy
                P. CARRASQUILLO                 9
Suites.  We started to make that a triage
treatment area for all the people that we were
bringing in.
          At that location we started to meet
Captain Sickles, J.R. Rivera again, Sal, I saw
them, because we lost contact once we ran down
into the garage.  Then Chief Gombo was there,
Chief Pascale.  I don't know where they were
before.  So we started making a treatment area.
          Then I went back down Vesey Street to
make sure that everybody started to clear out
from the American Express lobby that we were at.
          Then I decided to take a walk towards
West Street just to see if in fact that tower,
the whole tower, had come down, which confirmed,
yes, that it was completely down.
          I started to walk back again, making
sure everybody was out, and started to get all
the vehicles, all the personnel to North End.
          As I was walking back, I heard the
second sound, which was the second building
coming down.  I ran into the American Express or
right in between here, looked around.  I saw a
lot of windows.  Now I'm looking for a place that
                P. CARRASQUILLO                10
I'm not going to get hit with flying debris.
          I had two EMTs, that I don't know who
they were, male and female.  I told them come on
this way.  There was a civilian that was going to
walk out.  I said you can't walk out there, the
tower is collapsing.  I grabbed him.  Then we
went behind this marble pillar, a huge marble
pillar with a wall behind it, back there and
squatted down.
          The second wave came down through Vesey
Street, blowing out the windows along the sides
there.  Then I told the guy can we get out
another way, and he said yes.  We were able to go
through some hallway.  We came out on North
Street.  We were able to go underneath and came
out here and then walked over to the Embassy
Suites lobby there.
          There we tried to regroup who was going
where.  Chief Gombo, everybody was going now to I
think it was police headquarters.  They told me
to initially go to Chelsea, but then they
assigned somebody else to Chelsea and I stood
there.
     Q.   How did you receive those orders?
                P. CARRASQUILLO                11
     A.   No, no, no, we were there in the lobby.
Chief Gombo was there, Peruggia was there, Fran
was there, Chief Pascale and myself.
     Q.   That was in the lobby of American
Express?
     A.   No, this was in the lobby of the
Embassy Suites.
          So everybody got their assignments.  I
think Chief Basile was there as well.  He went to
the ferry terminal.  He was working his way out
to the ferry terminal, I believe.  Chief Villani
was heading that direction as well.  Chief
Pascale went to the Chelsea Piers for the staging
area out there.  And I stood at Vesey.
          We were treating people, and we started
to -- I started to let everybody -- we need to
get these people into vehicles and out of here
and to the hospital or to an area of Chambers
Street, because now we're getting reports there
was gas leaking and possibly rupturing.  So we
were not in a safe area.
          We started to do that.  We got
everybody outside.  Then we drove all the
vehicles -- some of the patients got into the
                P. CARRASQUILLO                12
vehicles, and we transported them out to the area
hospitals.  The rest of the vehicles continued
now northbound to Chambers Street.
          At Chambers Street, we regrouped there,
and we were going to start a treatment area by
the grass area.  We went up Vesey, and we went up
West End.  We worked our way back here to
Chambers Street, which is right near Stuyvesant
School.
          We were going to go into this area
that's indicated North Park to set up some sort
of a treatment area there so that in the event
that we needed to transport people and the area
was blocked off and we couldn't get vehicles,
there were some ships, boats, that were coming
in.  So we would use them to get the people out
of there and take them either uptown, downtown or
to Jersey, if needed.
          At that point, however someone came by
and we had to evacuate that area because there
were gas lines underneath there and that would
possibly blow up.  So we regrouped then and just
went down the block on Chambers, and we went to
Chambers and West.
                P. CARRASQUILLO                13
          As we were retreating from some of
these places -- I mean, a lot of equipment too
was just left behind, and vehicles, until we were
able to come back later on.  At any rate, we
regrouped to Chambers and West.  Chief Peruggia
and myself were there.  Then we set tried to set
up a plan.
          He stood in control of communications,
and then I went as the liaison with OEM at the
Fire Department.  And we just kept on operating
at that location with some of our units.  As we
would get patients, we would treat them and take
them out of there or transport them or treat them
and release.
          At that point we wound up getting a
large contingency of people from the academy.  So
they were outside, and we told the captain from
the academy -- I don't know his name -- to get
all the personnel and bring them into the area of
Stuyvesant School and leave them in there,
because outside were all the dust -- every time
the vehicles drove by, it just picked up all the
dust and debris.  Then as we were going to
utilize them, then we would call them.
                P. CARRASQUILLO                14
          Then I just worked as the liaison
office with OEM, and I was just coordinating
whatever resource they needed.  Then we started
to try to get a sense of who was missing.  We
didn't know how many units were assigned and so
on.  So we just took a tally of the units nearby.
          Then we just continued to operate.  I
attended a couple of the OEM meetings, what we
needed, where we were going to set up.  We talked
about possibly having a field hospital.  We were
going to set it up at the North Park area,
because now it was secured so we were able to
get -- we were going to try to get the Parks
Department to set up some tents.
          We had a Coast Guard cutter that was
anchored along the side, and they were able to
provide us with generator power and supplies and
water and so on.
          So that was a plan.  We were trying to
get a hold of the medical examiner to set up a
morgue sector or request for a team, because we
knew we were going to have to process a lot of
bodies there.  So we were trying not to
anticipate a lot of things.
                P. CARRASQUILLO                15
          Following the meeting, OEM -- because
OEM got established in the Stuyvesant School, we
were there.  They told us in the morning they
were going to get a ship, a hospital ship, that
was coming in and anchoring at the pier.  Then
the rest of the resources and some troops and
whatever things that we needed.
          So we spoke about DMAT teams coming in
to try to set up as treatment areas and just
continue to operate there throughout the night.
     Q.   When you were coming in, you said that
you heard Lieutenant Davila talking.  Was that on
citywide?
     A.   Citywide, yeah.
     Q.   That's the frequency that you were
listening to?
A. Yeah.
     Q.   And when you called citywide, you did
that by radio or telephone?
     A.   Telephone.
     Q.   Did they give you any specific area to
respond to?
     A.   No.  I just told them I would be
heading in, going to the command post.  Then I
.....................
                P. CARRASQUILLO                16
called RCC.  I called to RCC and told them call
all the stations throughout the city, anybody
that's going home, they have to stay, and try to
keep as many people as possible, in the event
that we would need more resources down there.
          I wasn't the incident commander, but
I'm sure that the people there had their hands
full and I didn't know if any of them had relayed
any information, so I just did that on my own.
          And I spoke to -- just before I left
here, I told the crew here and the L S U crew
here to respond not to incident but just on the
other side, on the Queens side of the Midtown
Tunnel area.  In the event if they needed them,
they would be right there so they can just go in.
     Q.   When you arrived at the scene, you came
out of the tunnel that connects to the FDR Drive
and the West Side Highway?
A. Correct.
     Q.   Where did you say you parked your
vehicle?
     A.   I parked my vehicle on the east side of
West Street or the West Side Highway right near
the New York Athletic Club, the club down there.
                P. CARRASQUILLO                17
     Q.   You know what, mark it if you see it on
there.
     A.   I believe it was --
     Q.   Is that where the vehicle stayed for
the remainder of the incident?
     A.   Until about 3 in the morning, when I
looked for it.  I brushed off all the debris.
     Q.   When the first building collapsed and
you retreated into the underground garage, you
said you met up with three firefighters.  Were
you able to determine their names or where they
were from?
     A.   No.
     Q.   And then you heard Chief Ganci?
     A.   I heard his voice, yeah.
     Q.   You never were face-to-face with him?
     A.   No, you couldn't see.
     Q.   Did you meet up with him any time after
that or you lost contact?
     A.   No, I went back to Vesey Street, and I
went into the American Express building to try to
first clean myself off and then try to establish
some form of a treatment area.
     Q.   Other than the people that you
                P. CARRASQUILLO                18
mentioned, did you see any other EMS officers,
EMTs, medics, fire officers that you know?
     A.   No.  Those are the people that I
recall.  There was another medic that I saw in
the lobby, Perez, from -- I think he's -- he used
to work for us.  That's the only one I recall.
He asked me if I was okay.  Then that's when I
just cleaned myself off, at least my face,
anyway.
     Q.   Besides the American Express and the
Embassy Suites, did you ever enter either one of
the trade towers?
     A.   No.
     Q.   Building number seven?
     A.   No.
     Q.   Initially you said there was an EMS
command post that you met up with Chief Gombo.
Where was that?
     A.   That was there, right across the street
from the Trade Center, just next to the garage.
     Q.   The north tower or the south tower?
     A.   It was in between both towers.
     Q.   Can you just X that, make it D.
     A.   I think it was in this area here,
                P. CARRASQUILLO                19
because I remember this pedestrian bridge being
on the outside and looking trying to see where.
This is the area.
     Q.   Is there anything else that you think
is important that you would like to add before we
conclude?
     A.   No.
          MR. FEILER:  I want to thank you for
     your time and providing this interview.
     It's 9:38 hours, and we'll conclude this
     interview.
File No. 9110090
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT ROBERT SHORT
Interview Date: October 16, 2001
R. SHORT
MONTE FEILER: Today’s date is October 16, 2001. The time is 11:01 and this is Monte Feiler of the New York City Fire Department. I am conducting an interview with the following individual...please state your name, rank, title, and area of command.
ROBERT SHORT: Robert Short, EMT, 5071 MERV operator for Division 4.
Q: The New York City Fire Department. We are conducting this interview in the conference room of Division 4 at Queens General Hospital regarding the events of September 11, 2001. Also present is...
DIANA MAGGI: Diana Maggi, Investigations and Trials.
Q: Okay, if you can just start off with what your assignment was that day and how you became aware of the incident.
A: My assignment was Merv 4 operator. I got assigned, I don’t remember the exact time I got assigned on the job.
Q: Who assigned you?
A: The citywide dispatcher. We were told not to go through the tunnel, so we went up 59th street. Not 59th street, Queens Boulevard, over the 59th Street Bridge, and down Second Avenue, cause they had it completely closed off. As we were going down, that’s when we seen, I guess it was the second (I don’t really remember) you
2
R. SHORT
know, hitting the tower. Cause the first tower was on fire, as we were coming over the bridge, we saw that. Then we parked at West and Vessey.
Q: Who directed you to park there?
A: Lietenant Hadala
Q: Where did you meet up with him?
A: We all parked. He was in his command car, it was an LSU truck in front
of me, then it was me with the MERV. As soon as we pulled up, we immediately were contacting patients.
Q: Okay, who was in the MERV with you?
A: A paramedic Dibriano. We started treating the patients, most of them were firefighters. I remember one--then I think the building collapsed. All the smoke, or whatever it was, the debris and everything, we got knocked out of the MERV. Whoever was in the MERV, I don’t know what happened to them. Cause a lot of them ran out, ran in. All of our equipment got blown out and everything so we ended up, I don’t know where I ended up because it was dark. But we ended up somewhere near the water. I was by myself. No EMS personnel, I don’t know who it was, but I guess it was near the water, yeah. Then I went back to the MERV and started cleaning out the debris, cause it was mostly all dust and everything. Then a fire captain, I remember this clearly, a fire captain ran up to me and said look, I lost all of my men. I can’t get into contact.
Q: Do you know what his name was?
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R. SHORT
A: No, I think he was from, I think it was Rescue 3. Cause we had Rescue 3 guys who were walking up West Street, we gave them a ride up. We rode ‘em up, we said guys hop on, they hopped on, I don’t know what happened after that. I heard later on they all got killed. Well, either he was from Rescue 3 or Ladder 43, I remember seeing a 3 on his hat. A white hat. On the MERV we have all the channels for the fire telephone radio, so he started doing command orders or whatever. I don’t know what he was doing, and we were doing patients. Then the second building collapsed. Again, we just ran.
Q: Were you in motion at that point?
A: No, actually we stayed on Vessey.
Q: So you stayed there?
A: Yeah, we stayed there. Because I believe it was the Verizon Building, I
don’t know if that’s on Vessey, cause I remember we started off on Vessey, and then we moved under these, like an overlook that goes across from building to building. I don’t know what it is.
Q: Like a pedestrian walk?
A: Like a pedestrian walk. We moved back or forward, I don’t remember. But then the second building collapsed, and then again we ran. We couldn’t see nothing. Then we ended up on West and Warren by foot. We left everything there.
4
R. SHORT
Q: So when you first arrived, where did you park the MERV?
A: Vessey. West and Vessey.
Q: And that’s where it stayed?
A: Yes. But, oh yeah, here’s the pedestrian bridge here, so I was right. We
parked here in the beginning. Then the second thing collapsed and we got caught in it. Then we just started around, I don’t remember, just all these people tramping on you basically. Then we moved the MERV, I guess it was up to here.
Q: So just south of the pedestrian bridge?
A: Yeah.
Q: Now were you on the river side of West Street, or on the building side? A: On the, well at the beginning we were here, on the building side. Then
when we moved it after the first collapse and everything, we moved over here somewhere, so we were near the water.
Q: So you were on the south side?
A: Yeah.
Q: And when the second collapse, where were you then? A: Over here.
Q: Y ou were in the vehicle?
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R. SHORT
A: Yeah, I was in the vehicle. We were in the vehicle, cause we were seeing patients, and then we were in the vehicle. When that came down, everyone just looked up and we just ran. I ran this way.
Q: Did you ever get back to the MERV?
A: Yeah, I ended up meeting up with the LSU guy, cause I didn’t know where he was.
Q: What’s his name?
A: Mark Mazzur. He was actually in here, because he was ahead of me with Lieutenant Hadala. So I thought, when I moved the MERV after the first collapse, I moved it up here. Cause we got the lights on, people are running and everything. I thought they were killed, cause they were over here. That’s where the building with Chief Carrasquillo and Chief Browne, and everyone was over there.
Q: Did you see them there?
A: Well in the beginning, when I pulled up here, I saw their cars. We said we’re gonna set up here and they went ahead. So I knew they were in the same area here. So when the second building, I guess collapsed...well, it was the first building collapsed, I moved forward, and then the second building collapsed, and that’s when I walked over here and saw all the debris. That’s when I said “I gotta get outta here”. I started going back to the MERV, and you know, the second building, everything went off. The power and everything. So I just went up and started running this way.
6
R. SHORT
Q: North up West Street?
A: Yeah, and I ended up on I think it was Warren, I think it was over here. Q: And who treated patients on the Merv?
A: It was just me.
Q: You were the only one, you had no medics, doctors?
A: I don’t’ know where anyone was, no. After the initial---it was me and
Dibriano, but then you know, after that, it literally just blew us out of the MERV. Cause we had the back door open with the ramp, and just everything went right out the front.
Q: Did you ever see Dibriano past that time?
A: No, I didn’t see him till maybe 6, 7 hours later. But I met up with Mark Mazzur. Like I said, he went in this way after the first collapse, and I was treating patients. He was tying to...cause there was a lot of rubble. So I guess he was looking for the chief, cause we didn’t know where anyone was. Then the second collapse, I left it there and I ran this way. That’s where I met Mark, I think it was about an hour or two later.
Q: At about Murray and West? Warren?
A: Yeah, it was up here. They had a, Hazollah ---had a big MERV, and they were cleaning us up. I had shit in my eyes, and you know...
Q: Did you get any direction from that point?
7
R. SHORT
A: Well from there, the MERV was here. When I met up with Mark, and you know, they flushed out our eyes, and we washed out our face, took on a little oxygen and stuff. We went back to the scene, me and Mark Mazzur, we went back, got an ambulance, jump started the MERV, and got the LSU. Then we set up staging on I guess it was this side of Vessey, towards the water. Like right over here. Cause there was still a lot of people coming down this way. Also, we met up with Lieutenant Hadala, who lost his command car somewhere over here.
Q: Okay, so you re-located your MERV between North and West Street on V essey?
A: Yeah, right over here I’d say. Cause this is the water, so... Q: What ambulance did you use?
A: Um, I don’t know.
Q: You don’t remember where you found it?
A: No, there was people in it though.
Q: Did you recognize them?
A: No, I didn’t recognize them, no.
Q: Was it a Fire Department ambulance? A: Yes, Fire Department ambulance.
Q: Okay
8
R. SHORT
A: They had cables. I said, do you have cables, and they said yes. I gotta get this thing outta here, cause of ----Then we turned it around and we set up, that’s where we all kind of grouped together, we were finding people. Then we sort of set up right here, cause here’s the water, and then we started taking in a lot of patients.
Q: Civilians?
A: Mostly civilians at the time, I don’t think there were any firefighters. Q: What type of injuries?
A: Eye, smoke, we have the multi-regulators. This MERV can hook up 16
people at once. Plus we had another 12 multi-regulator, and plus we had 2 more on the LSU. So we had I’d say about close to 40 patients just between me and Mazzur. So mainly oxygen.
Q: Okay, and were you able to maintain radio communication?
A: NO, after the first building collapsed I told them on city-wide “listen something’s going on, we’re getting outta here”. They were like “where’s the MERV? where’s the Merv?” I said I left it a long time ago. Then when we came back, we couldn’t transmit for some reason, I don’t know. I guess cause they said the tower had the thing on it. But after that, I would say for about 3 1⁄2 hours we couldn’t transmit. We didn’t know where anyone was.
Q: Did you enter any of the buildings?
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R. SHORT
A: Did I go in? No, I didn’t go in. There was a big pile of rubble, that’s about it.
Q: Okay, is there anything else you would like to add, any recollections or EMS people you may have seen that you knew, that you can identify?
A: Lieutenant Remz...
Q: Where did you see him?
A: Up here somewhere...
Q: That’s Warren Street between West and...
A: Yeah, and we ran up here. IT was Lieutenant Rems, Lieutenant
Santamaria, and they were with the Hotzollah truck.
Q: And where was that truck parked?
A: They were parked on West between Warren and Park Place.
Q: Did they give you any direction?
A: Well, they were treating me at the time, cause in fact, I had an eye
infection from it. After that was done, we ran back, seen an ambulance, jump-started the MERV, got the LSU, and then we set up over on this side of Vessey near the water. Then as the day, we were like all around. We were there for like 25 hours, okay.
Q: Anything else?
A: We need respirators like the Fire Department, that’s all I have to say.
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R. SHORT
Q: Okay, I want to thank you for participating in this interview. The time now is 11:14, and this concludes the interview.
11
File No. 9110091
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT-P LISA DESENA
Interview Date: October 16, 2001
L. DESENA
MONTE FEILER: Today’s date is October 16, 2001. The time now is 10:42, and this is Monte Feiler of the Fire Department of the City of New York. I am conducting an interview with the following individual...please state your name, rank, title, and assigned area.
LISA DESENA: Lisa Desena, paramedic, ALS coordinator, Division 4.
Q: Of the New York City Fire Department. We’re conducting the interview in the conference room at Division 4 EMS command center at Queens General Hospital, and the interview is regarding the events of September 11, 2001. Go ahead.
A: Okay, we were in the office when we became aware that the first plane hit. There was some confusion as to where we should go. Whether I was supposed to go on the MERV. What ultimately happened was we received a phone call from Joe Cahill, the Citywide ALS coordinator who instructed me to take a full set of ALS equipment, put it on vehicle 833, and come down to Division One. As I was loading the equipment in, Lieutenant Maggiore stopped me. He wanted to accompany me. There was also another paramedic there, Christopher Lefkidakas. Because I was with Chris, I was able to sign out narcotics with the ALS equipment. Lieutenant Maggiore put his equipment on, and we proceeded to the incident. Do you want to know which route we ended up taking?
Q: Sure.
A: We took the Grand Central Parkway. We went over the Triboro Bridge. We came down the FDR Drive. We briefly stopped at Division One to receive
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L. DESENA
instructions on how to proceed. We continued up the FDR Drive and around the Battery, Battery Park.
Q: Who directed you from Division One?
A: The ALS Coordinator for Division One.
Q: Where did she tell you to go?
A: She gave us a number of locations. She said she didn’t really have specific
instructions. She basically just told us where the staging areas were. So we proceeded down, we ended up at the Staten Island Ferry Terminal. This was just right after, I think the second tower had just fallen, or was falling at the time. We stopped at the Staten Island Ferry Terminal. We unloaded all of our equipment. We set up the triage area, and then from there, Lieutenant Maggiore and I went down to Liberty plaza, where we had to set up another triage area. One had been set up, but a lot of the people who were there at the time were missing or had gone to hospitals.
Q: Liberty and what? Do you know the cross street?
A: It was One Liberty Plaza. It was the building right next to the Trade Center. I’m not that familiar...yeah, it was right there. It was on the corner of Church and I guess Liberty.
Q: Okay. From the time that you got your assignment to the time that you got to the fire terminal, if you spoke to anybody was that by a cell phone or by radio?
A: We spoke to Citywide by radio. I can’t remember, Lieutenant Maggiore may have also tried by cell phone to get the best route to get to the incident. By the time
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L. DESESNA
they gave us instructions over the Queensboro Bridge we were already right next to the Triboro Bridge. I know there were several academy vehicles, ambulances, behind us. Since we were in a command car, we were able to get through and stop traffic so that the academy ambulances could follow us. They came the same route we came, but once we got on the FDR Drive, I don’t know where they ended up. I’m trying to think...I know that they had, I think, all the units go to Manhattan South and all the supervisors stay on Citywide. Then we were on Citywide. Lieutenant Maggiore had that radio on. The only radio I had was the Division radio. I was on the command frequency, 4E. So he really had the radio. Like I said, we went to the Staten Island Ferry Terminal, we set up a triage area there, saw a number of supervisors at that time.
Q: EMS Supervisors?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you know their names?
A: Chief Basile, Chief McKracken, Lieutenant Cronin, paramedic Louie
Cooke was there. Chief Browne was eventually brought in, and his aide Jason Katz. Dr.Cherson, Bruce Medjuck, I know there was more, I just have to think. Then we went over to Liberty Plaza and the only supervisor on the scene, the only person there was Lieutenant Soto. Lieutenant Maggiore and Lieutenant Soto took over command and I tried to go inside and set up that triage area. But there were no FDNY people there except for me.
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L. DESENA
There was a number of units from New Jersey, and a lot of doctors were there. There were no other FDNY units there. I was the only one there.
Q: Do you know what departments were there from New Jersey?
A: Actually no, down at Liberty Plaza was so chaotic that it took a long time just to get any semblance of order. The doctors continually kept trying to run down the street and go in the hole. Every time they thought there was someone down there. There were three different building collapses at that time, so everybody was really running all over the place. I honestly don’t know who the Jersey units were. I just know there were no FDNY units down there at the time. I stayed down there till 6 AM the next morning.
Q: Did you treat any patients?
A: We had a number of firemen who came in for exhaustion or dehydration. We did have some minor injuries. We had one person pulled out who had been pinned down for several hours. But he wasn’t there long, cause Dr. Gonzalez--- he already had blood, an IV. They were giving him blood. They rushed him went to the hospital.
Q: A civilian?
A: A civilian, yeah.
Q: Where did you get the equipment for the triage?
A: My equipment remained at the Staten Island Ferry Terminal, so when I got
there, there was equipment there. As time went on, they brought down more stuff. We
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L. DESENA
would tell them we needed oxygen, bandages, fluids, and it would end up getting delivered. At the beginning there wasn’t a lot of stuff. I think the doctors brought down some stuff with them. So there was some stuff there. It looked like it had been set up prior to the building collapsing Then all the people that had staged that, I guess went all different places. So we’re stuck there, and there was stretchers set up when I got there. The people who were originally there weren’t there.
Q: Did you have the opportunity to enter any of the buildings?
A: Except for Liberty Plaza? That morning? No. I stayed there. I was down at the site several times. But because it was so unstable and buildings kept collapsing at the time and because there were no other officers there, Lieutenant Maggiore asked me to stay there and do triage and transport. Which is what I basically did.
Q: Did they have ambulances there?
A: Yes, mostly either the voluntaries or a couple of the volunteers from Long Island, and an occasional FDNY unit was there. We didn’t have any problem with the ambulances. Once we were able to set up a staging area, the ambulances would come in. We’d have about 4 or 5 of them there at a time, and as they left we backed up. But that wasn’t a problem.
Q: And that was to transport them to the hospital?
A: Yes.
Q: So who was transporting the patients to the triage area? A: Either firemen or...
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L. DESENA
Q: This was on foot?
A: Yeah, cause we were that close. We were half a block away from the incident. Yeah, the firemen would bring them. The police officers would bring them. There were some people at the pile, and occasionally they would bring people back. But as I said before, most of the people at that time were FDNY, or uniformed service people who had gotten injured, or needed to recline. Most of the walking wounded people had left the area.
Q: Is there anything else that you think is important that you would like to add? Any observations? Any other personnel that you may have seen?
A: No, I don’t think so. Anybody else that was down there that’d I’ve seen was accounted for and working today.
Q: Okay, I would like to thank you on the behalf of the Department for participating in this, the time now is 10:52. This concludes this interview.
7
File No. 9110092
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       EMS LIEUTENANT ADAM BRYNES
   Interview Date:  October 16, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
A. BRYNES
2
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today's date is October 16th,
2001.  The time is 1244 hours.  This is Paul Radenberg
of the Fire Department of the City of New York.  I am
conducting an interview with Lieutenant Adam --
          LIEUTENANT BRYNES:  Brynes, B-r-y-n-e-s,
Shield No. 0109.
          MR. RADENBERG:  -- assigned to EMS Battalion
57 of the Fire Department, City of New York.  We are
conducting the interview at EMS Battalion 57 regarding
the events of September 11th, 2001.
     A.   I was assigned as conditions 572 on 9-11-01.
I received a call from the Brooklyn North dispatcher to
switch over to Citywide and respond to Manhattan for a
report of a signal 1040.
          I responded over the Brooklyn Bridge, came
around by City Hall, noticed an ambulance treating
approximately five people.  At this point Tower 1 was
engulfed in flames and heavy smoke condition, and the
ambulance turned out to be 10 William, Tour 2.  They
were treating some soft tissue injuries and some burns
and some respiratory distress patients, and their
location was in front of City Hall by -- what street is
that?  Between Park Place and Barclay Street off of
Centre Street there.
A. BRYNES
3
          I was trying to receive additional resources
for transport of these patients to the nearest
facility.  I had difficulties -- I couldn't raise
anyone on any of the tactical channels to have any
further ambulances deployed to me.  So I assisted in
treating these patients with 10 William when we heard a
loud explosion and noticed Tower No. 2 engulfed in
flames.
          At that point further attempts to get in
touch with Citywide or any operations officer at the
MCI were unsuccessful, at which point I remember Tower
1 collapsing.  I assisted 10 William in getting
everybody in their ambulance and I directed them to
transport to the nearest 911 facility.
          At that point I continued down Broadway.  I
reached about Dey Street.  I was attempting to get to
the command post to assist in this incident when I was
engulfed by tremendous amounts of debris and smoke and
dust, making any further travel impossible.
          During this time I had numerous people
banging on my command car for help.  I decided that, in
the best interests of my personal safety, that I would
egress from that location.  Prior to doing so, I exited
my vehicle and grabbed as many people as I could into
A. BRYNES
4
my command car and then I proceeded to turn around and
I drove from the location with approximately six people
in my command car that were all suffering from severe
trauma.  I advised the Citywide dispatcher that I
needed a place to transport the personnel.  The
dispatcher did not know if any of the treatment areas
still existed, so at that point I concluded that the
nearest place I could get to was Beth Israel Hospital,
and I started transporting those six individuals to the
hospital.
          At that point I noticed another command car,
a Fire command car, behind me, trying to get through
the traffic, and that command car followed me up until
about 14th Street and Park Avenue, at which point that
command car died.  I went up to the command car and
found Lieutenant Monroe, who was suffering from acute
stress regarding this incident, like all of us.  She
had about five people in her command car that were
suffering from trauma and associated injuries from this
event.
          I got back on the Citywide frequency and
requested two ambulances to my location to take care of
all these people, but after a few minutes I realized
that the likelihood of receiving an ambulance at that
A. BRYNES
5
time was not going to be expeditious, and in an effort
to provide the best care I could to these approximate
eight to ten people, I decided to take Lieutenant
Monroe and all of the people in her command car in my
command car, where I transported everyone to Beth
Israel Hospital.  After getting everyone into the
hospital, I land lined Citywide advising them that I
had brought Lieutenant Monroe into the hospital and
about eight civilians and requested further
instruction.
          At that point I was directed to respond to --
what they had at that time was a Battery Park command
center.  I traveled across town from Beth Israel down
to the West Side Highway.  En route down the West Side
Highway, I noticed a group of EMS personnel and
ambulances and a Chief and I mistakenly took that to be
the command center.  When I approached the Chief, whose
name I cannot recall at this time, he told me that he
would need my assistance gathering the personnel to set
up a staging area.
          I assisted in that for about 20 minutes, when
I heard reports of a massive gas leak and there was a
massive evacuation.  I saw numerous people in vehicles
driving north up the West Side Highway to evacuate the
A. BRYNES
6
immediate area.  I was told that there was a massive
gas leak and that we needed to evacuate.  So we
evacuated all personnel to Chelsea Piers, where a new
staging area was set up.  I assisted in logistics at
that staging area, at which point I met up with Chief
Kowalczyk, who requested that I transport him down to
the command center that was established on West Street
and Chambers Street at that time.
          I responded down to West Street and Chambers
Street with Chief Kowalczyk and his aide.  I was given
direction at that point to become a staging officer for
all extra resource personnel that were sent in, and we
established a treatment command center at Stuyvesant
High School auditorium, at which point, sometime later,
I was directed then to become the transport officer for
the operation, where I responded to, again, West Street
and Chambers.
          I assumed transport operations for some
period of time, several hours.  Then I was directed to
the command post, where I became the recording officer
for Chief Kowalczyk and Chief McCracken, until about
2000 hours, at which point I was relieved and I
retrieved my command car and responded back to
Battalion 57, where I signed out at 2100 hours on
7
operations on that date and time.
     Q.   The people that you had in your car and that
Lieutenant Monroe had in her car, as far as you know,
they were all civilians?
     A.   Yes.  As far as I knew, they were all
civilians.  I didn't see anyone in any uniform and no
one at that time identified themselves as being a
uniformed member of any service.
     Q.   When you came down from Beth Israel, you said
you were coming down the West Side Highway?
A. Correct.
     Q.   Do you remember how far, about how close you
got to the incident when you came across the Chief
and --
     A.   I believe that I stopped somewhere maybe 20
blocks south of Chelsea Piers.  If they were named
streets, I didn't see a name on them.  But it was about
15 blocks south of the Chelsea Piers, about 15 blocks
south of that.
     Q.   What is Lieutenant Monroe's first name?
     A.   Amy Monroe.
     Q.   Do you know what battalion she's at?
A. BRYNES
09-11-01.
          That basically is my recollection of my
A. BRYNES
A.   She is Chief McCracken's aide.
8
     Q.   Do you remember the collapse of the second
tower?
     A.   No.  All I remember is that I found out about
the collapse of the second tower when I got to Beth
Israel Hospital.
     Q.   So immediately after the collapses, the
collapse of the second tower, you didn't actually make
it down to the Trade Center complex?
     A.   During the collapse of the second tower?
     Q.   Yes.
     A.   No.
     Q.   In that period?
     A.   No.  Because I got stopped, you know, I was
coming down West Side Highway and I got stopped there
before I got down any further.  By the time I got back
to the command center with Chief Kowalczyk, No. 2
building had collapsed.  There were massive fires
everywhere, so we weren't allowed to go south of
Chambers Street at that time.
I do remember seeing the collapse of 6 World Trade Center. Was it 6 or -- I think it was 6. Did 6 drop? Itwasoneofthem,6or3or7. Ijust remember watching the collapse of another building at
A. BRYNES
9
that time and that got us pretty nervous because there
was, again, a big smoke-like cloud coming towards us
and I just remember everyone at the command center
running for cover until after that blew over.  But
that's the only other building I saw collapse.  I think
it was No. 6.  I think, I'm not sure, but I think it
was No. 6.  Somebody told me it was No. 6 that had
collapsed.
          That's the best I can remember it.  It was
without a doubt a very hectic and totally uncontrolled
environment.  But that's what I can recollect.
     Q.   When you first got into Manhattan, you met up
with 10 Willie?
     A.   Correct.
     Q.   Are they a Fire unit or voluntary?
     A.   They're a private, voluntary unit.
     Q.   Do you remember what hospital they're from?
     A.   I'd like to say New York Hospital, but I
can't be sure.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   Tony Brooks was one of the paramedics.  I
remember him because I used to work with him as a medic
before he left EMS.
     Q.   From the time that you were with 10 Willie
A. BRYNES
10
until you started to transport up to Beth Israel and
found that Lieutenant Monroe was behind you, did you
see any other Department personnel?
     A.   No, not that I can recall.
     Q.   Any other thoughts or comments that you'd
like to add?
     A.   No.  I'd just be interested in going over the
post-MCI critique about the incident.  I've had some
concerns regarding communication ability during
something like this.  I felt that something can be done
in the future to allow us a better communication
capability when something this big happens.  I'm not
saying that anything necessarily failed in this case,
but I think that something could definitely be improved
on to probably help our ability to perform our job.
          That's about it.
          MR. RADENBERG:  Okay.  The time is now 1301
hours and the interview is concluded.
File No. 9110093
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT MICHAEL OBER
Interview Date: October 16, 2001
M. OBER
CHRISTOPHER ECCLESTON: Today’s date is October 16, 2001. My name is Christopher Eccleston of the New York City Fire Department. I am conducting an interview with the following individual...please state your name, rank, assigned command area of the Fire Department of the City of New York regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
MICHAEL OBER: My name is Michael Ober, I am an EMT with the New York City Fire Department. I am currently assigned to Division 3 in Brooklyn.
Q: Mike, were you working on September 11th, the day of the World Trade Center disaster?
A: Y es, I was.
Q: And were you assigned to the World Trade Center disaster?
A: Y es, I was.
Q: In your own words, can you please tell me about the events of that day? A: Um, the morning of the 11th, I was in the office, I am currently assigned to
Chief Kowalcyk. He was up here in the office, and he called down to me, “get the car ready”. I said why? He said a plane crashed into the Twin Towers. I didn’t really believe him at first. Then on the way out the door, one of the people who works here turned the TV on and we could see the towers burning. I said all right. I didn’t think it was going
to be so massive. I thought it was a Cessna or something like that. I had no idea it was going to be a 767. So I ran downstairs, got the car ready, we started to leave. I don’t
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know what road we were on, but I could see a nice picture of the city skyline. You saw the towers right in front of you, and the first tower was hit. I couldn’t tell at first if it was papers or birds, but something white was you know, like flickering up in the sky. It just seemed weird. But anyway, we got into Manhattan. The Chief was trying to prepare us for everything. He said, “you know, just get ready, this may be a bad day. You might see a lot of dead people. You might see a lot of bad things”. He was also saying that, just be prepared, cause it might be a terrorist act. At this point we still had no idea what was going on. We just heard that a plane hit the Twin Towers. He said, “be ready for secondary explosives”. Just, you know, stuff like that, just trying to give me an idea of what he wants me to do when we get down there. We got out of the tunnel. Do you want this to be really descriptive, or do you just want to know...?
Q: Absolutely, sure, as descriptive as possible.
A: We were coming down what I believe is West Street, and the Chief says, what is that in the road up there? We just saw a pile sitting there, had no idea what it was. But we came closer, and found out it was body parts. We turned back the car, I have no idea exactly where, to be honest, I can’t remember the street. We started walking to the building, I believe the building we walked into was the South Tower, I’m just not sure. But it was where the fire command post was, whichever building the fire command post was in, that’s where we went. We walked into there, on the way into the building, there was people running around, people that was jumping landing on the grounds. Whatever building we walked into there was a glass canopy, foyer type thing
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where from the street you can see into the building. As we were walking into the building, we just heard a huge bang. As we looked up, it was someone who had jumped, god knows how far up. We got into the lobby of the building and it was like chaos, there were people everywhere. Once we got in there, I don’t remember exactly who it was, I think it was one of the fire Chiefs who said “you know it’s not safe, we gotta get outside”. So we left to go outside, and as we stepped out of the building, it was like, raining people. People were just jumping from everywhere. Just all over it was bodies and parts just scattered. We walked across, I believe it was West Street, and we set up the command post over there next to the fire command post, just trying to get everything in order. At the same time we’re trying to watch to see what’s going on. The only thing that was going on was you could see the buildings burning and people just jumping. You could watch them fall from like the 90th floor all the way down. It’s like you go to school for so long to be able to take of people and treat them and be able to fix them when there’s something wrong with them, and there’s nothing, they hit the ground, and that’s it. I saw one guy got split in half by a light post, his torso and his legs weren’t together.
You just feel helpless, there’s nothing you can do. So we’re sitting there trying to set up the command board. I really don’t know how long we’re there for, to be honest, I have no idea. Then we heard a rumble, some twisting metal, we looked up in the air, and to be totally honest, at first, I don’t know exactly...but it looked to me just like an explosion. It didn’t look like the building was coming down, it looked like just one floor had blown completely outside of it. I was sitting there looking at it. I just never thought they would
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ever come down, so I didn’t think they were coming down. I just froze and stood there looking at it. Then I saw everybody running past me and I said, I better start running. I turned around, luckily there’s a parking garage behind us. We ran into the parking garage, and right before I got into the parking garage, I turned around and I could see the debris starting to come down.
Q: When you say we were running, can you tell me who else was in this group that was running?
A: Well, the command post was set up, I believe it was right on the sidewalk directly across the street, and directly behind us was like a driveway into a parking garage. The command post in front was myself, Chief Kowalcyk. There was either a Lieutenant or a Captain from Manhattan, one of the EMS officers. Then it was either directly to our left, or just a little behind us was the fire command post. Chief Ganci was there, Commissioner Feehan, all the guys who didn’t make it out were standing right over there.
Q: How far from you were they?
A: Five, ten feet max. Then behind us, there was just lots of firefighters, I can’t even begin to tell you how many. There was some cops back there, a lot of firefighters. They had all their gear sitting there, I guess they were just waiting for orders, just sitting there. After hearing this and looking up and seeing the building, what I thought was an explosion, everyone was running, I turned around and decided that I should probably take off like everybody else. So when I got to the entrance, I turned
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around and saw the debris coming down. I didn’t know if I was gonna die or get trapped. I was just like, I kept thinking, I don’t want to be alone. I need to find somebody. I went into the parking garage, I made it about 5 feet. I saw some firefighter up against the wall, he was on the ground right close to the wall. I just jumped on this guy’s back, I had no idea who he was. I said, are you all right? He was just like, yeah buddy, are you all right? Yeah, I’m fine. Just as he said that, a huge gust of wind just started coming down. It wasn’t like huge chunks of debris, but it was a lot of dust, you know, just dust, it might have been ash too. But it was pitch black. We just layed there till it stopped coming down, then we finally got back up, it probably had to be inches of just stuff on top of everything. It had to be probably like six inches of dust and all kinds of stuff. After it stopped coming down, I finally got up, and thought we gotta get outta here. We got up. We’re trying to figure out where we were. It seemed like a movie, it was just like guys in fire companies were screaming out their company numbers. I think it was 16, I’m not sure. But I remember just hearing someone in the background screaming 16, where are you? It didn’t seem-- I just felt like I was in a movie. So myself and this firefighter, I have no idea who it is, decide that we’re gonna walk towards this entrance where we came in. We walked, and I’m like, we’re stuck. He said, no we’re not at the entrance yet. Somebody says no, you’re outside. I’m like we’re not outside, it’s dark out. He said look at the air, there’s so much stuff in the air, no sunlight’s getting through. The amount of stuff that was in the air, you couldn’t see it. It was like a curtain of just dust that blocked out all the sunlight. Breathing was horrible, it was just ash and dust. Every time
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I took a breath, I could feel more of it going into me. You try covering up your mouth, but it was still getting in. Cause it was just so thick in the air, it was hard to see 10 feet by you. It was horrible. There was just gear everywhere. I had no idea where I was, I had no idea how I was getting out. I somehow stumbled over a Scoot Pack and picked it up, just in case. I never used it, but I just picked it up and brought it just in case I needed to use it. We found out we were outside. At first you really couldn’t see anything, it was just dark. Then after that, we were just looking for people, anything around us that we would know, that could get us out. Someone that could help, it was just confusion at first. I didn’t know what to do, where to go, who to help, who to look for or anything. Then the air started to settle down a little bit, and some of the air was coming through, and it felt like I was looking at a black and white TV. Everything was a shade of gray. Everybody around me was just covered in gray. I saw a fire engine that was just completely destroyed, and it was just gray. Every fire engine was just a different shade of gray. It was just crazy. Actually, with all the devastation that was going on, that was the real cool thing to see. I don’t know why, it was just really interesting. It was just like I said, it was like a black and white TV.
Q: At this point, did you know where your partner Chief Kowalcyk was? A: No. I had no idea.
Q: The last time you saw him was at the command post?
A: Once I finally got situated, and got a hold of myself, I realized what was
going on. I started looking for him. After a couple minutes of looking for him, another
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Chief’s aide, who I don’t know his name, I know his face, he came over to me and said where’s your Chief? I had no idea. He’s said where’s your Chief? I said I don’t know. We started walking around looking for him. I don’t even know how long we looked for him, time was just a big blur. We didn’t find him anywhere, we went back into the parking garage, we couldn’t find him in the parking garage. We walked down to the corner and both of our Chiefs were standing there together. We started heading down the block to get to the Chiefs.
Q: Who was the other Chief who was with Chief Kowalcyk, do you know? A: I’m not sure...sorry. I can’t remember.
Q: No, no, it’s alright.
A: Just as we got to the Chiefs, the rumbling started again, and it was just like
a sound I’ll never forget. Days afterwards I heard a rumbling noise and I was hiding. You knew what was happening, we turned around and the second building was coming down. So we took off running again, and I don’t know what building it was, sorry I don’t really know the area very well...
Q: It’s fine, it’s fine.
A: I just found a safe area, so I didn’t care what street it was. We ran behind this building, and had shelter in that building. People were just coming in. They let people in the doors. Then from there, for a while I don’t know what happened. I know we left the building, we found an ambulance crew and we told the driver that we had to set up some kind of staging. Set up some kind of triage, we had to get some kind of
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order. We figured the best way to do that was to take a step back. So Chief Kowalcyk said take them down to Chelsea Piers. He figured it was a big area, they had a lot of big open rooms in there. If need be we could make it into a make-shift hospital, or a triage area. We took a ride down there. I don’t even remember how long we were down there for. I just remember flying through the streets of Manhattan, going down there. When we got down there, it was just like, go down to the end, there was a little cobblestone driveway. It was maybe like 2 cars wide, maybe a little bit bigger than that. Then there’s like a main road, you just go to the end of the driveway. He just told me to switch any ambulance that shows up over to the command frequency. Keep the driver in the car, tell them don’t leave the ambulance. He just had a lot of orders. Write down the unit number. I went down to the end and the ambulances just started showing up from everywhere. Ambulance companies that I had never even heard of before. People just from everywhere were showing up. There had to be hundreds of ambulances lined up there. I had ambulances show up, and all I had to do was write down what kind of crew they were, whether it was a BLS crew, an ALS crew. Whether they had you know, two people or ten. The ambulances would show up and I’m like well, what’s your crew? They’d be like, well it’s myself, my partner, we’re both EMTs. I have five doctors, and four nurses in the back. There was so many people. So many people with so much training and so much knowledge. These amazing skills that they could treat these people with, but there was no patients. We had all kind of medically trained people there and nobody to take care of. We had ambulances just lined up, and everybody’s getting
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frustrated cause they know what’s going on. It’s like everybody who came out here who had bumps and bruises. Or they didn’t come out, they were dead. There was really nothing that anyone could do down there, so they were getting frustrated. Then I just, I don’t even know...time was just a blur, I don’t remember what time it was. There was a rumor about a gas leak going on down there, and about 2 minutes after this rumor of the gas leak, Chief Kowalcyk calls me on the radio and says we’re going back down there. I remember getting down there, that’s about it. I don’t remember exactly what we did once we got down there. It was weird, it was probably the most devastating thing I’ve ever seen in my life, and so much of it I can’t remember. I don’t remember where I parked the car, you know, I don’t remember the people that I saw. I saw so many people, and it’s like, a lot of them I know by face, and I will never forget faces. But I don’t know names. Both people that I work with, and both victims that I saw parts from were like, someone’s face that I saw them jump, and they landed 5 feet from me. I don’t remember the sound of the building hitting the ground. Somebody told me that it was measured on the Richter scale, I don’t know how true that is. If the building is hitting the ground that hard, how do I not remember the sound of it? The smell was just --- it has a distinct smell. I’ve been to Manhattan many times since then, and that smell just brings back every single...I don’t know if it’s like World Trade Center cement. I don’t know what exactly it is. It’s just that like, the smell that we inhaled so many times with the rest of the dust and everything in the parking garage. It’s just a nasty smell. I mean, it’s not that bad, but I
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just don’t like the smell. Um, I don’t know...we were down there, there was rumors about the other stuff going on. But nobody had definite information.
Q: About what other stuff?
A: One rumor I heard was that they were taking out the tunnels, which seemed pretty damn scary considering we took the tunnel on the way over here.
Q: The Brooklyn Battery Tunnel?
A: The Brooklyn Battery, there you go. The Brooklyn Battery Tunnel. Then we heard about the Pentagon. Somebody also said the Sear’s Tower was hit. That’s about it as far as I know. People were just talking. You didn’t know what was true and what was not true, you know? I remember standing on, I think it was on West Street, and it was the first plane I had heard in awhile. I started flipping out. I turned around and I’m looking at the Empire State Building, and I’m like, it’s gone. All I heard was the rumbling of an airplane, and I’m like, they’re taking out the Empire State Building too.
It was some kind of F-15 or something came like, screaming over our heads. That was the greatest thing I saw all day long. I’m like, they’re not hitting us with anymore planes. It’s just like I said, a lot of the stuff I’ll be getting here and there. It’s all bits and pieces.
Q: Is there anything else that you feel you want to add to this interview? Anything at all?
A: Sure, I probably should have said, or told you about. I know this is just a personal feeling, but the amount of devastation that was going on down there, it’s just unbelievable the number of people who came out. When I was down at Chelsea Piers
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lining up the ambulances, I had people coming up to me who wanted to just do something. Someone was like, I'm a retired Vietnam veteran. I can help you know. I’m, used to this kind of situation. What can I do to help? There were people everywhere, “I’m a lawyer”, and you see them out there directing traffic. They tried so much to bring us down, whoever did this. It’s just not gonna happen, you know? It’s just so many awesome people out there. Just the way everybody’s doing the job, it’s unbelievable. This city, I’m proud of where I work.
Q: You should be. You have good reason to be proud. Well Mike, I thank you very much for conducting this interview with me. This interview is being concluded at 11:02. The counter on the cassette player is 313.
12
File No. 9110094
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT-P ERIC RODRIGUEZ
Interview Date: October 16, 2001
E. RODRIGUEZ
MIKE TAMBASCO: Today is October 16, my name is Mike Tambasco, assigned to the World Trade Center Task Force. I’m conducting an interview into the events of September 11th at the World Trade Center. The interview today is with paramedic Eric Rodriguez, who is assigned to Unit 35 Zebra, tour 2. We are in the Battalion 57 locker room. Alright, Eric.
ERIC RODRIGUEZ: My name is Eric Rodriguez, I’m a paramedic assigned to 35 Zebra 2. On the morning of September 11th, my partner and I, Joel Pierce went over to Carl’s Place, a little deli over on Union and North 8th where we get our breakfast every morning, cause it’s right around our 89, and it’s really relaxing. As we were sitting down eating, all of a sudden we heard a lot of Brooklyn units getting switched to Citywide. A lot of 31 Units down by the Brooklyn Bridge. So we looked at each other and said wow, something must be going on, let’s see if we can, you know, something good to buff. So we switched over to citywide and we started hearing all these reports about we have fire showing at the World Trade Center, explosion. So we go woah, so we drove over to Kent Avenue and as we got around Kent and North 6th, we could see that the North Tower had been struck. I didn’t know what it was. I mean, the plumes of smoke were coming, and I remember getting on the phone and calling my wife and my mother saying turn on the television. There’s a hole in the World Trade Center. So now at this point, my partner is calling Citywide, telling them we’re an ALS haz-tac,
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we can be over the bridge in 5 minutes. You know, put us on the job. Cause at this point we had also heard the MCI code for an airplane crash. So we’re thinking haz-tac, we can get there and really get in on the job. We couldn’t get out on the phones and we’re trying to get through on the radio, but not stepping on anybody. As we’re standing there watching the buildings is when the second plane hit. It was then that we realized that this was not just a fire. That whole feeling just like, your stomach dropped out. At that point, we got on the radio and said 35 Zebra, we’re going. We had our Sargent from the 90 Precinct, was down there. He had already got --cleared traffic for us straight down Broadway to the Willie B. I remember going across the Willamsburg Bridge, I looked at my partner and said brother, no matter what happens, we go home alive tonight. Cause even then we were thinking there’s got to be very heavy patient care. But who else knows what’s going on. When we first got into Manhattan over the Willie B, we got directed over to Canal down to Broadway. We were coming down Broadway past City Hall, and it was pandemonium. There was all kind of resources over here, we’re trying to look for some kind of EMS command post. There were crowds of people over here, we wound up coming down, coming across over here. There was wreckage everywhere, and there were body parts.
Q: So you came across West on Vessey Street?
A: Yeah, and there was nothing but, it was absolutely like Berlin 1944, 45. We couldn’t get across over here because there was too much debris, it didn’t look too safe. We didn’t see too much trucks or apparatus. So we came down here.
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Q: You came down Church Street going south.
A: Then we had to divert back over this way, cause we couldn’t, there was too much debris. You know the stairs that’s over here, across from the hotel that’s usually over here?
Q: Right, right.
A: There was far too much stuff here, and there were body parts in the street. We didn’t want to run over them, so I came back across over here on this little street, I guess that’s Dey.
Q: Dey Street, you went over east, right?
A: We got back to Broadway, then we started, we lit it up again and went all the way down Broadway.
Q: Southbound on Broadway, right.
A: We started picking up all these ambulances. They just started jumping in line behind us. We came down across by the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel, and got over to West Street, and just headed back up.
Q: Right, up north.
A: Up north. Now at Liberty, we saw a command vehicle with an EMS officer standing at Liberty and West Street. So we figured that’s where it was. I was listening to the radio, I was hearing Chief Goldfarb on the radio. I know his incident command is second to none. So I figured that’s where he was, and I pretty much trust a
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lot of his decisions. Okay, we’re here, we’re haz-tac, what do you want us to do? Well, it turns out he wasn’t there. But there was a captain, I forget who he was, but he was newly promoted, a kind of heavyset guy.
Q: Captain D’amato maybe?
A: Maybe. We’re like, where do you want us? He said, give me a second, I just got here, this isn’t a command post as far as I know. But at this point we’re standing there talking to him and other busses are going around us and starting to line up behind his command vehicle. It also looked like PD was setting up a command post right there, they had a lot of units in plainclothes. Apparatus were still showing up, so we initially started staging right underneath that little walkway that goes across...
Q: That goes across West Street?
A: No, Liberty. This one right here.
Q: Got you.
A: That’s when we started noticing that people were jumping on that side. At
first I said look out, there’s debris falling. We looked up and said no, that’s not debris, those are bodies. We’re thinking bodies from the fire floors. Then we started seeing they were screaming and they were moving, and we were watching them hit the ground. At that point there’s nothing you can do to treat them. You know we might need to move back cause they’re gonna start taking some of us out. So we moved back here where South End and Liberty meet.
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Q: West, where South End, right.
A: We started staging over here, they wanted us down on South End. They told us listen, you guys are haz-tac. We have about 2 or 3 of your haz-tac units here. What we want to do is, we want you to stay up close here because we’re gonna consolidate you guys, you’re gonna Scott up, you’re gonna go up and do searches.
Q: Do you remember who told you that? Was it an EMS captain?
A: There was a captain. No, there wasn’t cause I had to tell the captain. Who was it? It was a chief said it, I don’t remember what chief was there.
Q: Okay, fine.
A: Cause it wasn’t Chief Goldfarb, cause I know his aide. It was someone I didn’t know. It might have been Chief Wells, I’m really not sure.
Q: Okay.
A: Cause at this point I hadn’t actually physically seen any of the chiefs, but I was hearing them on the radio. I was hearing Brynes on the radio, so I was trying to get a sense of where everybody was. I knew there was a command center inside, there was a forward triage. I was thinking I don’t see too many medics here, I see a lot of EMTs. So me and my partner are like we gotta get in, at least maybe we can do something over there. So we’re standing there, and we’re hearing the reports, patients with major burns and all that. My partner says listen, I want to go find out what’s going on. So he starts walking over towards West Street and Liberty and South. I was on the corner of Liberty
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and South End Street. I went into the back of the truck and started hanging trauma lines. I figured if we get a burn victim or whatever, we’re prepared. I don’t know how much time went by. I know I slipped out of the truck for a minute and then Chief McCracken was there, and I think it was Chief Grant was there. I remember Chief McCracken saying chief Grant is taking over, he’s assuming command of this sector right here. Anybody needs directions, I want all the drivers to stay with the vehicles and everybody else to come over by Chief Grant. Well my partner was already over there, and I was driving that day. So I figured well, I’ll finish hanging all the trauma lines. I was in back of the vehicle and I heard, it sounded like I thought another plane had struck the building. This loud bang and then it sounded like a locomotive, or like when I used to live in Howard Beach, when the planes used to come in at night, flying right over the house. Everything started shaking and I heard like a thunderstorm. Somebody screamed it’s coming down.
I don’t remember if it was on the radio, because the side door of the bus was open. The back door of the truck--I could see out of. I looked, and I bent all the way down to look up as far as I could, and I could see the cloud coming. I thought the building was actually falling over. I didn’t know it was pan-caking. I was like, I’m not getting out of here. So I dove on the floor of the truck. I was praying, if something hits this bus, don’t let it collapse the box. If it does, I hope there’s a big enough void that I’ll be alright. I remember something hit the bus hard enough that my siren went off. Then the siren died.
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So the siren went off and then it died. It was pitch black, and I heard the May Days come across. I couldn’t breathe, you know.
Q: Can you remember anyone specific you heard on the May Days?
A: No, I just heard someone say May Day, May Day. We are pinned, we are pinned, like that. People stepping on each other. I remember hearing Central say units, calm down, you know-- of that nature. I was suffocating and then I realized that...and then I remembered that we had Scott packs. There was a piece of metal that was like, wedged in the doorway. I grabbed my mask, I was able to get the metal out of the way, and the soot and stuff was about halfway up the side of the bus. So I was able to dig through that, get to the compartment, and get my Scott pack on. I thought I was actually under a debris or something, and I’m thinking whatever’s on top of me I hope isn’t a fire part. Cause I don’t want this to just collapse and then you know, fry and all that. As it started to filter down, I’m thinking, where the hell is my partner? There was a Lincoln Navigator that was right next to the bus, that when I went to step in, I had to move the door cause it wouldn’t open all the way. It was gone, I mean it wasn’t...it was gone. There were a couple of ambulances that were completely totaled. You know the Hottzollah MERV that they had up there was completely flat. As it was clearing up, I could see more and more of the apparatus that were there completely destroyed or gone. Then I don’t remember seeing anybody move, it was dead silent and it was like being on the surface of the moon. Cause all I could hear was the Scott pack, you know? So I’m looking, I’m looking and I ran into Timmy Keller, from Batallion Fifty.
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He was kind of standing up, he looked a little dazed and I said Timmy, are you alright? And he goes, I can’t find Karen, Karen DeShore. I said, where was she? She was right next to me before everything happened. He said, I jumped under the car, I can’t find her. I said, well have you seen anyone else? He said no. So now I’m still looking for my partner. I finally found Joel, he was having a hard time breathing. I said, lets go get your Scott pack and get out of here. He says no, we got to go back to the first tower and start digging. I said listen, if this one came down, the other one’s probably gonna come down. Trust me, turn around, get on my ass, we’ll get out of the area. If they say it’s not gonna come down, we’ll come back. Until such time, we need to get out of here. When we got back to the truck, he got his Scott pack on. The vehicle was dead, it wouldn’t move, I think one of my rear axles was busted too. The vehicle was dead. We started hearing on the radio, all units within the vicinity of the World Trade Center, you need to evacuate the immediate area because the North Tower is beginning to lean. So, we started hoofing it, and we found another crew was there. They had no stretcher in their bus. There was this paramedic, and I know I’ve seen him, but I can’t remember if I’ve seen him in Manhattan or from when I worked in the Bronx.
Q: One of our units?
A: One of our guys. I said, does that truck run? He said absolutely, everybody get on. So we jumped in the back right as the North Tower collapsed.
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South End is not a very big street, but he was flying down that street and that cloud was coming. It looked like we were parked. We got to the end of South End Street, by that building over there, and they had all those boats, they were trying to get people on them. That’s when the second cloud came. I got separated from my partner at that time again, so while we were standing there, I’ll never forget it. It seemed to be just completely disorganized, and people were like, let’s just help these people to the boats and all that. The paramedic who was driving that rig turned around and said listen, get a pen and a paper, we need to start writing down who’s here. I’m assuming command of this area. We started doing that, and I told him, I’m gonna go find my partner. He was like, I wish you’d stay here, and I was like, well, no. I finally found him. We made our way down to South Ferry, and we met Chief McCracken. Then we wound up going over to Liberty Street. Not Liberty Street, Joel went back to Liberty Street, I stayed down in South Ferry. Where I met him, he was on the north side of everything when it happened.
Q: Anything else you want to add to it, Eric?
A: Nothing else. That’s about it.
Q: Thank you. This interview concludes at 13:13. By the way, it began at
12:58.
10

F i l e No. 9110095
WORLD TRADE CENTER T ASK FORCE INTER VIEW EMS CHIEF WALTER KOWALCZYK
Interview Date: October 16, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins

W. KOWALCZYK
MR. TAMBASCO: Today is October 16th. My name is Mike Tambasco, assigned to the World Trade Center Task Force. The time is
10:47 a.m. I am in the office of Chief Walter Kowalczyk in the Battalion 58 building. We will be doing an interview into the events of September llth at the World Trade Center.
Q. Chief, if you would just be good enough to tell me in your own words what happened.
A. On the morning of the llth, I started my tour of duty at approximately 5:30 in the morning. I was in my division office. I was also scheduled to be, for the date of the llth, the citywide EMS chief. What that means is that
for the 24-hour period starting at 8 a.m. on the llth and terminating at 8 a.m. on the 12th, I am the ranking EMS officer responsible for EMS activities.
I was sitting in my office doing my work. I always monitor the fire scanner as well as the EMS dispatch frequencies. At which point a second alarm came over on the Brooklyn fire frequency. Brooklyn fire transmitted a second

W. KOWALCZYK
alarm for the World Trade Center. I immediately turned the fire scanner to the Manhattan frequency, and there was a report of a plane into the Trade Center.
At that point I advised my staffer to get an overview of division operations. I'm responsible on a day-to-day basis for EMS Division 3, which is approximately 700 people and about 65 ambulances at peak shift.
As I was preparing to leave, there was a TV on in the other room that had a live shot of this. I realized going out that this is probably something fairly major. However, in my mind I thought it was probably a small plane into the Trade Center.
My aide Michael Ober and myself responded to the Trade Center. The best access route that we took was the Prospect Expressway into the Gowanus. As we approached on the Gowanus, the enormity of the situation was live in front of us. And there was not much we could do because we were facing some heavy traffic.
I remember turning to my aide and saying we need to use caution going into this,

W. KOWALCZYK
looking at the enormity of the situation. From a safety perspective I was also concerned that this could be terrorism. I have taken a good number of courses in preparation for the medical aspects of bioterrorism.
We were stuck in traffic for a little bit, and then traffic started to move. It appeared that the Police Department had very quickly put some traffic patterns into place to pull emergency traffic through the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel.
As soon as we came through the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel, the devastation was almost immediate. In my career I have managed many multiple-casualty incidents from plane crashes to severe train derailments, so managing high-scale incidents never scared me.
However, as you're driving down West Street and you have to maneuver the vehicle to avoid driving over what appeared to be body parts as well as debris, my mouth went dry. I had the sensation that I had a job to do. I had to ensure the safety of the EMS work force. But how do I do this if I can't talk?

W . KOWALCZYK
I asked somebody for a -- so we parked our car and came down West Street. There was no clearly defined staging area at that point in time. It was a fairly chaotic event. And at that point the only thing that was evident was fire from at least one of the towers.
We positioned our vehicle on Liberty Street between West Street and North End. I pulled my safety gear out and my portable radio and we took a command board. That was the last time I was to see my vehicle in an upright position.
We proceeded north on West Street, trying to find the command post. In most incidences to find the command post i s very clear and evident. However, at this point in time it was not clear and evident. We found some officials to say that the command post was in the lobby of One World Trade Center, which is the north tower.
Q. The north tower.
A. I think the most devastating or one of the most devastating views I had was as we were entering Two World Trade Center there was a torso

W. KOWALCZYK
on the ground. It looked to me a little like a CPR mannequin. But I had to focus to keep going.
Debris was coming down around us. We entered Two World Trade Center through a
shattered window. We found Chief Gombo, who was the ranking EMS officer on the scene. I remember seeing Chief Peter Hayden from the Fire Department there.
At that point they indicated we needed to move the command post. There was a report of another plane coming. In retrospect, knowing the events that had occurred, I'm not sure if that was the second plane that was coming or the second plane had already come and now intelligence was starting to develop and maybe there was a third plane inbound.
We moved quickly but cautiously outside and started to establish a command post in the driveway in front of Two World Financial Center, which is on West Street, basically midpoint between the intersections of Vesey and Liberty Street.
At that point a formal command post of fire officials started to develop, including

W . KOWALCZYK
F i r s t Deputy Commissioner Feehan and Chief of Department Peter Ganci. I think Chief Ray Downey was there. Chief Gombo came over.
Basically I started to assume the responsibility of the EMS operations chief. I started to, in the midst of the chaos, establish some type of infrastructure for the EMS operations. I remember deploying chiefs and officers to Vesey and West and to Liberty and West with global direction of trying to set up operation there.
It was very difficult to concentrate, given the enormity of the situation. Probably the most emotional piece was when we saw the bodies coming off the Trade Center. Now, I ' m not talking about one or two bodies. We had to have watched between 10 and 20 bodies come down. I
w i l l never forget the sound of those bodies hitting the ground.
I believe it's the front of One World Trade Center, it's structured in a manner that has a glass canopy over the driveway. Again, my recollection could be wrong. It could be either that or Three World Trade Center. It was one of

W. KOWALCZYK
the buildings on West Street. I believe it was One World Trade Center.
The bodies were coming down and going through those plate glasses. The sound - - if you ever heard sounds of plywood dropping on the ground,justthatforce,itwasmultiplied. I thought I was at an event at Universal Studios, on the side, watching a movie being taped. But this was no movie. It was real life, and it was moving in slow motion.
There were some thoughts or words of people that you just can't forget. I'm sure it wasn't the last words that Chief Ganci said, but I remember words such as "oh, shit, those bastards." That's the last words I ever heard Chief Ganci say.
We were trying to get a handle on running the EMS operation when suddenly what appeared to be in slow motion was a humongous black cloud starting to descend from the sky. That black cloud was, later I realized, the collapsing of I believe the north tower. In retrospect, it happened in slow motion, but yet it happened so quickly. I don't remember which

W. KOWALCZYK
one it was.
We turned, and we ran down this
driveway. As I'm running down this driveway, I probably said why am I doing this? Why am I running down a driveway into a parking garage that would be a natural flow for debris? Again, in my mind I had been to building collapses, and building collapses usually come down at an angle
L W O fan~as~icchildren. As I was running, I wasn't sure if I would ever see them
again.
We ran into this garage along with Chief Gombo, Lieutenant Terranova and members of the Police Department and firefighting operations. I believe Commissioner Fitzpatrick was with us along with emergency service officers. I thought we were going to die.
A haze was starting to develop. We could not see the driveway. That was black. I wasn't sure if the haze that was developing was a smoke condition starting to impact us or the debris.

W . KOWALCZYK
I heard a fire officer scream: 18, where are you? It was either 18 or 16 -- 18 or 16 Truck, where are you? It seemed like a scene from Backdraft where they're trying to recall their members. But this was no movie; this was live.
Then we were a l l scared. There was probably 15, 20, 30 people with us in the garage. Chief Gombo was coughing, and I was concerned about him. We were a l l covered with soot. I wasn't sure if I was going to get out. Nobody could find an exit, nobody.
I didn't know what would happen then.
I kept hearing the sound of -- I guess it's the sounds of silence. But it wasn't silence; it was a cloud just coming down on us.
We regrouped. People were trying t o get out on cell phones or radios to no avail. There was a phone there. I ' m not sure i f anybody ever got out on the phone. I'm not sure if we knew where we were, except across the street from the Trade Center. That really doesn't narrow it down in New York City.
Somebody found an exit. I'm not sure

W . KOW ALCZYK 1 1
how long we were there for. We came out, I would probably say at the south side of Two World Financial Center. People said that it was near the area of the Winter Garden. It looked like a snowstorm, covered with white, and quiet, ever so quiet.
The other scary thing -- to go back for a second -- I couldn't find my aide. My aide is a young man who happens to live in my neighborhood. I couldn't find him. For that moment, while I was trapped, I knew I was breathing and alive. I didn't know where he was.
As we got out, we looked around, and people were devastated and just did not know where t o go. What was weird i s behind Two World Financial Center there's like a little cove. On the map i t ' s indicated as the North Cove Yacht and Harbor. And I knew water was there because I had done planning in the past for the Statue of Liberty celebrations. You couldn't see the water.
We regrouped, found Chief Goldfarb, Chief Villani and Chief Gombo. Probably the happiest moment of that day was when I saw my

W. KOWALCZYK
aide Michael. He said he came into the garage. I didn't see him. So I'm not sure if he even did. Once we were in the garage, there was a separation between the front and the back from debris.
We went into another building, which I think was Three World Financial Center, or it might have been Four World Financial Center, one of the other buildings to the north, to try to strategize. We had discussions that we needed to reorganize and move north. We did not know what the issues were at that point in time.
So people spoke about setting up staging areas on Chambers Street. I recommended that we go further north, just to stabilize. We later decided to move up to 23rd Street, to Chelsea Piers. I've commanded many operations. I'm a very aggressive, on-scene commander with the safety of the people that work with us first. But at that point in time I think I got selfish and I aggressively volunteered for the 23rd Street operation.
I had fears I would never see my kids again. And I had an opportunity of life again.

W. KOWALCZYK
I found an ambulance crew. My aide and myself got into this ambulance, and it was like a slalom course, driving through debris.
At that point the man-made snow of the World Trade Center was fairly deep. Somehow the operator of the vehicle - - to this day I don't know who it was - - got us up to 23rd Street.
I met with representatives of Chelsea Piers. I asked for their assistance. They overwhelmingly welcomed us, whatever you need. That location would later be a very beneficial strategy point for days and weeks into the operation.
As I was managing that, ambulances from all over were coming in. We tried to organize them, move them inside from West Street so they were safe. It was like I was at the gates of Shea Stadium at the end of a game. People were just running towards us.
Ambulance crews were approaching me: Chief, I'm a haztac unit, let us go in there. I said let's get organized, they know we're here. About ten minutes later that same haztac crew came to me and got in my face. He wasn't

W . KOWALCZYK
insubordinate, but he was very aggressive. I pick him out as a sample of the work force there. Employees with an unknown danger but wanting to go and do their job and help people. I again, in a firmer tone, said you have to wait to get direction.
Later that crew -- and one of the things that I clearly said to that paramedic or EMT, I'm not sure what his medical certification was, that it's my job to get you home at night to your family. Let me do that job. Some half hour later that same individual came over and thanked me and understood the reason why I stood my position.
As time went by, many more resources started to arrive. We had Secret Service personnel at that location that helped us to develop a secure area separate from the public and to operate.
Chief Pascale arrived. Several supervisors arrived. At that point it appeared that Chief Peruggia was the only person we were hearing on the radio. Chief Peruggia was trying to manage the operation.

W. KOWALCZYK
Sometime later - - and again, the clock stopped - - he requested my response up to the command post location. At that point you have to envision that the only thing we're able to see is large columns of smoke and hundreds and thousands of people running towards us.
I remember going over to Chief Pascale and turning the Chelsea division over to her. I remember hugging her. I said Fran, they asked me to go to the command post. I'm not sure if I'll ever see you again, because of the unknowns of the situation. She said let me go, I'll go for you. It's okay. They asked me to go to the commandpost. I'llgodownthere.
I took my aide, along with Lieutenant Byrnes in a command car, and we proceeded down West Street. I was scared. I was scared.
We approached the command post. Chief Peruggia asked me to come down because he needed the help. I started to manage the operation, and I saw that command by committee was not going to work here. Everybody was putting ideas in.
I said to Chief Peruggia: Don't take this the wrong way. But I'm going to take the

W. KOWALCZYK
job from you. At that point in time I assumed the responsibility for EMS operations, located next to the Fire Department command post and tried to put a strategy together.
The hardest thing is that we didn't have contact with the outside world. We couldn't get through to headquarters. We were not sure what system policy decisions were made or implemented. We knew the people would come through and do the right thing, because that's what the Fire Department is made of, specifically the EMTs and paramedics, no different than the firefighters. When it comes down to it, they want to try to do the best job they can.
We were setting up our operation and probably the most frustrating thing was that there were no patients. We had been trying to get a handle on the divisions and we put some structure to it. We set up a north and a south division; south being down by Battery Park, north being up by Chambers Street. Slowly an organizational structure started to be developed.
It was sometime later that Chief McCracken made it up to the command post. We

W. KOWALCZYK
spoke about some policy issues and where I saw the organizational structure needing to go. I tried to provide my recommendations. One of the objectives was to get the EMS system back in operation.
One of the hardest things to swallow was when I asked for a call status on the city. The dispatcher indicated that they were holding in excess of 400 assignments. I had to make a decision. I was looking at the enormity of this situation. I had to be concerned with Mrs. Jones having chest pains in the Bronx or in Brooklyn. We had a large number of resources up at Chelsea.
Initially, I conferred with the fire incident commander, Chief Nigro, Chief Burns and Chief Carruthers and, I'm sorry, Chief Butler and Chief Carruthers. They asked me not to de-escalate any resources at this point in time.
Losing the concept of time, I eventually - - or we eventually released 20 to 40 ambulances back to 911, and the 911 system started to come back.
In speaking with Chief McCracken, we had the concern of putting the 911 system back

W. KOWALCZYK
into operation. The way I recommended to do it initially was to utilize mutual aid resources for the scene operation and return the city units back to operation.
That would do two things. A, we get the city people eventually back to their stations so we can regroup. It's difficult to take units from New Jersey and outside New York City and ask them to do 911 calls in the system when we didn't have the infrastructure for it.
It was very hard to keep focused at establishing a strategy with the devastation in front of you. It was like building an EMS system from scratch. I remember through the night meeting with Coast Guard officials about hospital ships coming in, talking about DMAT, disaster medical assistance teams, coming in. It was like putting a system together from scratch.
During this period the news started to filter into the command post about the passing of Chief Ganci, Father Judge, Commissioner Feehan, the reports of EMS, firefighters, police officers and civilians missing. This was not going to be an operation that we will secure in an hour.

,
W. KOWALCZYK 19
As I indicated, I started my day about 5:30inthemorning. Inbetweenandamidstthe chaos, I had to get phone calls to my kids and to my parents and to my in-laws to let them know I was okay and to make arrangements for my kids. I knew I wasn't going to be home that night.
The day that started as any other day at 5:30 in the morning on September 11th ended when I went home about 9 to 10:OO the next morning. The days and weeks following it were scary.
b u ~hingsevolved, s~ruc~urewsere putinplace,thingsweremodified. Iprobably
did not talk to my staff from Division 3 for several days.
It was an event that I will not forget. I think what's most troubling is in doing major assignments in the past, you go home and people watch them on the news and it's a forgotten memory in a day or two. In my local parish in Williston Park there were approximately 17 to 20 people missing from our little neighborhood.

W. KOWALCZYK
So here as we sit on October 15th. Tomorrow I have to go to the funeral of her friend's father, along with many other funerals and memorial services.
I think what's frustrating is usually I have to deal with this stuff inside myself.
Thank you for this opportunity.
Q. Chief, if I might just ask you one
other thing. When you were, just going back to running into the garage in the World Financial Center, that, I assume, was building one coming down, the first tower.
A. That's correct.
Q. After that do you remember where you were when the second one came down?
A. There's two other collapses that I

W. KOWALCZYK
remember. I believe when the second one came down we were probably in that Winter Garden area. I remember again that same silence but yet roar and the vision.
I remember when we had gone down to set up the command post. I was working with Chief Peruggia. It was another fear for our life when Seven World Trade Center wanted to come down.
Sometimes you just don't know where to
run.
Q. Chief, unless there's anything else you
can think of or you want to add, I thank you ever so much for the interview, your thoughts and all the rest.
I cannoL begin LO fa~hom he feelings of the families of the police, fire, the
EMS and all the civilians who are groping with this horrific disaster. We just don't know where it's going to go next.

W. KOWALCZYK 22
-
Q. Once again, thank you ever so much, Chief.
MR. TAMBASCO: This interview concludes at 1125 hours.

F i l e No. 9110097
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT CHAD RITORTO
Interview Date: October 16, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins

C. RITORTO 2
MR. RADENBERG: Today's date is October 16th, 2001. The time is 1541 hours. I'm Paul Radenberg of the Fire Department, City of New York. I'm conducting an interview with - -
EMT RITORTO: Chad Ritorto from Battalion 43, EMT 3015.
MR. RADENBERG: The interview is being conducted at the Fire Department headquarters, fourth floor, in the BITS offices. This interview is regarding the events of September llth, 2001.
Q. Please start with when you went into Manhattan.
A. Well, previously I called my battalion, told them that I was available. They stated that they didn't have anybody for me to work with at that time, to stand by. I then decided to proceed down to the World Trade on my own. I put on my Fire Department uniform, got all my gear.
I went down in my personal car, down to the World Trade Center.
I parked my car at approximately Albany and the West Side Highway. I then proceeded on

C. RITORTO
foot to where they were doing forward triage, which was at Liberty and the West Side Highway. I met up with an EMS chief; I'm not sure of his name. I met up with a chief, and he made me staging officer.
We were in the process of collecting keys, and all of a sudden we heard somebody say run, the building was coming down. We looked up. Sure enough, the building came down.
I then proceeded to attempt to evacuate the area by running west across West Side Highway from Liberty and managed to hide underneath the pedestrian foot bridge underneath the concrete staircase that leads from the street to the bridge.
At that point I took cover. Building debris came down. I was struck on my head, my arm and my leg. I received a laceration over my right eye from it. With several other EMTs and paramedics from unknown destinations, we then went into the World Financial Center, and we managed to go through that building and come out on the gateway plaza walkway. From there we proceeded down towards Battery Park along the

C. RITORTO
esplanade when the second tower came down.
After that I went back to where my car
was and got in my car and proceeded north of Chambers. There were numerous patients that we were treating. There was debris falling from the windows of the buildings. There were bodies coming out of the windows. There were body parts all over the street.
I don't know. That's pretty much the gist of what went down. It was scary.
Q. So when the first tower collapsed, you were under here?
A. Right.
Q. In here?
A. Right. I was actually on this corner,
because they were --
Q. On this side?
A. Right. They were pulling people out of this building. People were coming out of this building here, out of Two World Trade Center. There was an exit right here. This was forward triage. Initially they wanted us to go in there, but one of the captains didn't want EMS in there.
Q. A fire captain or EMS captain?

C. RITORTO 5
A. An EMS captain. A fire chief told an EMS captain to bring about 30 EMTs into that tower, and the EMS captain didn't want to do that. So the fire chief got a little annoyed at him. All the EMTs stayed outside. But if the EMTs weren't outside, we would have had a lot more EMS fatalities when that other tower came down, because most of the EMS was outside and they were able to actually scatter down Liberty, down Washington, and down the West Side Highway.
I was tripping over EMS guys underneath this bridge. They were like Hazollah guys and
over here?
EMS captain
Cornell and people from Metro Care.
guys from
Q. This was forward triage A. Right.
Q. Liberty and Washington. A. Right.
Q. Do you remember who the
was?
A. I don't know. I don't really remember.
Everything just happened like so fast. You were more worried about looking up. I had this
feeling that we were too close because there was debris coming down. The aluminum siding, that

C. RITORTO
was just coming and it was just flopping down. It was in the air and looked like paper, but when it came down, it made such a crash.
I told one of the chiefs we were way too close, we were way too close, we need to pull back. No, no, no, we're safe from here. I'm like, all right, whatever.
Then somebody just said run, the building's coming down. We ran. I remember looking at the building. I was running for the building. There were guys in the doorway waving everybody in, trying to pull everybody in. I wasn't going to make it.
I hid under that bridge. I tripped over somebody, and my helmet flew off. Then I got pelted. I managed to put my helmet back on and then just prayed. Then all of the debris came down. One minute there was light and air, and the next minute there's nothing. It was darkness and dust.
You took one breath, and all the soot wentinyourmouth. Itjustdriedyourmouth instantly. You're taking it out of your mouth. It was like I didn't want to take a deep breath.

C. RITORTO
I'm taking small shallow breaths so I don't inhale all this stuff.
I'm fumbling over debris, big bricks.
I remember I saw the windows of the building, and I grabbed something. I burned my hands on it. You can see the scar here. I burned my hands on it. Then I went through the window. Then I remember seeing a l l the computers, and the lights were still on. The computers were all intact. There was really no debris on the ground. It was just really dusty in there.
I managed to meet up with a bunch of other paramedics that were all in there.
Q. That was --
A. That was in that building right there. Q. This here?
A. Yeah, the building that had the green
dome on the roof. It's got to be the World
Financial
Q. Yeah, one Financial.
A. That's what I ' m thinking, One World
Financial right there.
Center.
Center. It's the only building that's
Q. When you initially got into the center,

C. RITORTO
you said you parked your car down here around Albany?
A. Around Albany or Carlisle.
Q. At what point in what was going on was that that you got there? Was the second tower already hit?
A. The second tower was already struck. I
got there probably a half hour after tower got hit. So we were there for
the second about maybe is like
20 minutes, 25 minutes, maybe.
really sketchy. When we pulled
like a Sunday afternoon. There
around, but there were cars everywhere and you can hear the sirens. You can actually hear the fires burning up in the buildings.
There were like body parts all over the street. You couldn't even recognize anything. You just knew it was body parts because they were wrapped in clothing. It's like you're thinking, wow, that must have been some -- because there was debris everywhere. There were pieces of metal. There were people laying around. It was incredible.
This was down over here. This wasn't
Time
up, it looked was nobody

C. RITORTO 9
even anywhere near. There were body parts along the West Side Highway about as far as here, about two blocks south. It was incredible.
We looked up, and it was just like a scene out of a movie.
Q. When you got up to Liberty and Washington, that's where you met up with the EMS captain?
A. Right.
Q. So there was an EMS chief there too? A. Yeah, because he asked me, "Who are you
with? What unit are you on?" I was like, "I'm extra personnel from Battalion 43." He said, "Good, you're staging officer until I can get somebody else down here. You're staging officer."
Q. You don't remember who that was, the EMS chief?
A. No. An older guy with a mustache, grayish-black hair. There weren't too many EMS chiefs there. I don't know if it was Chief Grant or - - Chief somebody. I don't know. I couldn't even remember.
Q. How about EMS units in that area?

C. RITORTO
A. There were two or three Fire Department ambulances there. When I was doing staging, I was collecting keys. Most of the ambulances that were there -- we had Hazollah there. There was Metro Care there. There were two ambulances from Broad Channel Fire Department there. There was a Cornell truck there. I remember seeing the Metro Care MERV. It was down closer to over here, to where Three World Trade was. They were closest. They were in front of that.
That's pretty much as far as goes. Mostly Metro Care and voluntary and like three or four Fire Department
ambulances.
Q. Did you recognize anybody on
ambulances hospitals
the crews
from those?
A. From Metro Care. I used to work there.
So everybody that was there I knew. I pretty much rendezvoused with them because I was doing staging and just sticking with people we knew. It was just easier for me to know whose bus is what.
I don't recall i f there was anybody -- I don't think there was anybody there from my

C. RITORTO
station. There was nobody there that I knew from the Fire Department. Nobody there that I knew from the Fire Department. Some from Metro Care and that's it.
Q. You were down over here when the second tower came down?
A. When the second tower came down, I was on the esplanade helping carry some injured firefighters to an ambulance.
Q. Could you show it on the map?
A. Yeah, right over here, because this i s where -- we walked down from here, and we were carrying the injured firefighters to this point. There was an ambulance here. We took their stair chair because he couldn't stand anymore.
So we took the stair chair, and we grabbed the stair chair and wheeled him just about as far as we could find an ambulance that was running. We tagged a Lutheran truck, and we put him in the Lutheran truck and they took off. Wherever they went, I have no idea.
Q. Do you recall his name or company or anything like that?
A. No. All of that stuff is just -- those

C. RITORTO
minor details, they're just gone with the wind. Q. Where did you pick him up?
A. He was right outside -- he was in the
gateway plaza. He was in the park area, where the park was. Because when we ran into this building, there were mostly EMTs. I think there was one ESU cop, and the ESU cop was leading us into the bowels of the building. I'm like,
"Where are you going? You're bringing us further into the building. We don't know what kind of damageisuptop. Weneedtogetoutofhere."
So we went back the way we came, and we found the door. It was a door like this, and it had sheetrock. The door was locked, so we kicked out the sheetrock. When we opened up the door,
we happened to be like in the lobby.
When we were in the lobby, that's where all the firefighters were in there, and they were waving us out. We saw the flashlights and stuff. They were waving us out, and we a l l ran out. That's when we hooked up with this injured firefighter, and we started carrying him down.
We walked down just about as far as you can. It's like now that I think about it, what

C. RITORTO
we should have done, we should have walked north, because as you're walking south, when the second tower came down, we were already down like by - - there's a pier down here or something. There's like a little pier or something.
Q. Okay.
A. And they were bringing up boats, power boats or regular boats. They were shoveling people off, and whenever they were bringing them, I don't know. It got so crazy. Then the second tower came down, and then an even darker cloud of dust started creeping over the park.
People were just freaking out and trying to jump on the boats. It looked like a riot. Women and children first and everybody - - I'mlike,look,thetowers-aredown.That'sit. The towers are down. Everyone needs to relax and keep walking, keep going, keep going. Everybody was just freaking out. The harbor boats were packed. They were starting to teeter-totter.
I don't know. It was crazy. I was like, you know what - - then an EMS lieutenant, I met up with her, and she was like, "Oh, we have LO go LO Liber~yIsland."

C. RITORTO
Q. Do you know who that lieutenant was?
A. No, it was just a female EMS lieutenant that was down there.
Then I met up with one of the guys from Metro Care that I knew, and we just started walking. We walked back through the plaza, and I think we went down Rector Street. We came through here and walked back up West Side Highway. It was like, all right, you know what, we need to get out of here. We need to get out of this dust cloud. It's not doing anything for us.
I was walking back to my car, and I expected to see an I beam through my car. I thought my car was going to be destroyed. But my car just had dust on it. We got in my car, and we just drove around the entire plaza like around 1 PP. We went all the way around and came back up to over here. I just parked my car somewhere up here.

C. RITORTO
Then we just started walking around. Then we went into the Port Authority building that was over there. We got equipment, flashlights, helmets and stuff. They evacuated us out of there because they thought the building was going to explode or something. They said there was a gas leak. So we ran out of there.
I met up with one of my good friends from Cornell somewhere on West Street. He saw the injury on my head. He said, "Where are you going?" I was like, "I don't know. I've got to go to a hospital. I'm going somewhere." He said, "Well, park your car somewhere." I jumped in my friend's car, and we jetted up to Cornell. I was like the first patient into Cornell.
There was a Fire Department liaison there. He took my name, he took my shield number, he took everything. He had my equipment. He had everything. He took everything down.
They did whatever they did. I got stitches and whatever. Then I met up with him. I never heard anything from him either. The Fire Department didn't know I was there.
What did the Fire Department liaison

C. RITORTO
do? He had Fire Department ID on, and he was like, "I'm a liaison. Give me your name, give me your shield number." I specifically told him I'm from EMS, the Fire Department but I'm EMS. I'm not a firefighter; I'm EMS. Make sure you - -
it's a big difference.
Q. He was from the fire side?
A. Yeah. He was a Fire Department liaison. I'm pretty sure it was the fire side. I don't think we have any. He took my name and stuff, and that was it.
Q. Okay. Anything else you want to say, comments?
A. No. Pretty close experience. Pretty scary. It might sound stupid, but I would do it again if I had to. I'd do it all over again. I don't care.
Q. I thank you. A. Thank you.
MR. RADENBERG: The time is now 1457. The interview is concluded.
File No. 9110098
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
   ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER JAMES DRURY
   Interview Date:  October 16, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
J. DRURY
2
     MR. TAMBASCO:  My name is Mike Tambasco
assigned to the World Trade Center Task Force.
I'm conducting an interview with Assistant
Commissioner James Drury, of the Bureau of
Investigations and Trials in the Fire Department.
We are in his office located at 9 Metrotech,
4-E-18.  The time is 1632 hours and Commissioner,
I would ask you to tell us your story.
     ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY:  I was driving
to work that morning on Third Avenue when the
pager went off, indicating that a plane hit the
World Trade Center.  I continued on into work as
fast as I could, arriving I would estimate, just
around 9 o'clock or shortly thereafter.  I parked
in the garage and I went into the lobby planning
to take the elevator up to my office.  As I pulled
into the garage there were no cars in the garage,
which led me to believe that everybody who had
been in the building had left to go to the World
Trade Center.  My plan was merely to drop my
things off in my office and then head over there,
but there were two EMS individuals in the lobby
when I opened the door of the garage lobby and
they were literally begging me to give them a ride
J. DRURY
3
over to the World Trade Center.  They were Captain
Abdo Narmod and EMT Richard Zarillo.  My car is
not equipped with a siren, but it does have
dashboard lights, so we headed over the Brooklyn
Bridge, where we could see both towers now on
fire.  I got off the bridge and took Chambers
across.  At that point you could notice mass panic
and hysteria.  People were running everywhere
across the street.  We made the left on Broadway
and I parked the Department vehicle that I was
driving in front of Saint Pauls Chapel at Park Row
on Broadway, right in front.
     The Captain and the EMT got out of the car
immediately and started running on foot to find
the EMS command post.  I then walked down Vesey
Street from Broadway until I reached the corner of
Church.  I could see mass panic and hysteria there
too.  People were evacuating the World Trade
Center, running, people running in all
directions.  I noticed police officers with First
Deputy Commissioner Joseph Dunne of the NYPD in
the intersection of Vesey and Church.  You could
see airplane parts on the ground and although I
didn't realize it at the time, I later realized
J. DRURY
4
there were body parts, both on the concourse and
on the street.
     I made a left on to Church, heading down now
past 5 World Trade Center on my right, the
concourse, which is also on my right, where people
were evacuating the building trying to find the
FDNY command post.  I came upon EMS Lieutenant
Bruce Medjuck, I guess near the corner of Church
and I guess it would be Liberty.  More Church and
Fulton or Dey Street.  He informed me that the
FDNY command post was down on West Street.  They
were treating an injured person and they placed
that person on a stretcher.  I then retraced my
foot steps all the time looking up at these two
buildings on fire, back up to the corner of Church
and Vesey.
     I now made a left on Vesey and walked down
the street on the 7 World Trade Center side, where
I could see more airplane debris and building
debris on the sidewalk and on the street.  I
passed underneath the foot bridge that ran, I
believe from the north tower to 7 World Trade
Center and arrived on West Street where I observed
numerous Fire Department rigs and ambulances on
J. DRURY
5
West Street.  I crossed over West Street where I
found the FDNY command center in front of the
World Financial Center or the AMEX building there
in a driveway leading me to a garage.
     I saw, among others, Chief of the Department
Ganci and First Deputy Commissioner William
Feehan, who I nodded to and he nodded back to me.
I was merely trying to observe what was going on,
and at that point in time, more firefighters
arrived.  I also saw Deputy Commissioner Gribbon
in there and at some point, I saw Commissioner Von
Essen.  While he was talking to a couple of people
from the Department, I stood to the side and was
watching him speak to them and in the background I
could see Mayor Giuliani and his aides, walking
along, I guess in front of the World Financial
Center there.
     At that point Commissioner Von Essen left,
and I was mainly observing.  Of course, at that
point, you could see numerous people jumping and
floating down to their demise, making a gruesome
sound when they hit.
     At some point, Assistant Commissioner Tom
McDonald approached me and asked me to give him a
J. DRURY
6
hand moving north from the command post to try to
get some Fire Department rigs moved so that we
could clear a path for ambulances.
     I joined him and started heading north back
towards Vesey Street and beyond.  As I was
approaching Vesey Street, I saw a cop I knew from
from the ESU unit, Officer Sullivan, and we nodded
to one another.  Then we got another Fire
Department individual to join us.  We were in the
process of getting some rigs moved when I turned,
as I heard a tremendous roar, explosion, and saw
that the first of the two towers was starting to
come down.
     At that point both Commissioner McDonald and
I started running north.  He was behind me.  Then
I lost track of him.  But I started running north
as the cloud approached, winding up somewhere
farther down on West Street.  I waited a while
till some of the dust cleared.  I realized then
that my cell phone wasn't working, my pager wasn't
working and I borrowed a radio from some voluntary
hospital EMT.
     When the dust started to settle, I headed
back down towards the World Trade Center and I
J. DRURY
7
guess I came close to arriving at the corner of
Vesey and West again where we started to hear the
second roar.  That was the north tower now coming
down.  I should say that people in the street and
myself included thought that the roar was so loud
that the explosive - bombs were going off inside
the building.  Obviously we were later proved
wrong.
     But now the second tower started coming down
and I had to run again back up north.  Again the
cloud was approaching.  I ran several blocks
north.  I think I got up as far as that community
college or even Saint Johns University and at that
point after the dust cleared, I decided I had
enough, I wasn't going to go back all the way
down, although I did start heading south again,
where I came upon Commissioner McDonald lying in
the street with, I believe his right leg
bandaged.  I went over to him and told him it was
great to see him and glad he was all right and he
told me that while running, he had torn or injured
his calf muscle in his leg.  I believe he was
assisted over to a FDNY van, and placed in there.
     I then saw Deputy Commissioner Fitzpatrick
J. DRURY
8
and I inquired as to whether or not he knew
whether everybody was okay and it was there for
the first time that I found out that both Chief
Ganci and First Deputy Commissioner William Feehan
were missing.  I then saw, like a ghost appearing
out of a haze, Commissioner Steven Gregory,
covered with soot and dirt and a little dazed.  I
tried to get him to sit down, but he just wanted
to continue on.
     I then hooked up with him and we headed over
towards where I had parked my car because that's
where we heard the FDNY was now setting up a new
command center, over at Park Row and Broadway.  We
stopped at a McDonald's that we found open so that
Commissioner Gregory could call his wife.  The
owner of the McDonald's was very accommodating.
He gave us water.  There were other firefighters
and cops that came in there.  We got some water
and Commissioner Gregory was able to clean off his
face.  He called his wife and then we continued on
over to Park Row and Broadway.
     Now it had been a beautiful sunny day, but as
we headed down Broadway in the Park Row area, day
literally turned into night.  This heavy dark
J. DRURY
9
acrid smoke was covering the entire area.  The
Fire Department was trying to muster their
companies and men to see how they could attack the
fire and start a rescue operation.  I lingered
there at the command center post for a little
while.  Then because the smoke was choking, I
didn't have a mask or anything, I went over to my
car, which was covered with soot, dust and paper
and firefighters had put a couple of pairs of
shoes and a couple of tools on it.  I got the dust
off as best as I could and I got the tools off of
it.  I got into the car and was able to drive it
out of there.  Driving down Broadway, cutting over
back streets, turning around back up to Park Row
and the Brooklyn Bridge.
     I then proceeded over the Brooklyn Bridge
very slowly, because the car was still covered
with dust, dirt and debris.  There were hundreds
of people walking over the Brooklyn Bridge.  At
that point in time I was the only car on it.  I
made it back to headquarters, parked my car, went
upstairs and reported up to the 8th floor, where I
learned for the first time that Commissioner
Feehan and Chief of Department Ganci had been
J. DRURY
10
found dead at the site.
     I then teamed up with some of the eighth
floor aides and wound up driving with them up to
the new OEM command post up at the Police
Academy.  There we tried to follow the events that
were going on and watched on TV the press
conference the Mayor and the Commissioner gave.
     From there I left and went back down to
Ground Zero with a couple of Fire Department
aides, where again I saw Commissioner Von Essen.
I ran into Chief Nigro, who I saw at a field
communications unit there and I went over to chat
with him.  As I remember he was quite upset, quite
distraught, but in a quiet way.  I must have
lingered there.  There were hundreds of
firefighters waiting to -- they were waiting for 7
World Trade Center to come down as it was on
fire.  It was too dangerous to go in and fight the
fire.  I lingered there for quite a while, but the
smell and the smoke was finally too much and I
decided I wasn't doing any good there.
     So I decided I was going to try to get back
to headquarters, but I wasn't able to get a ride.
So I walked and I walked all the way over to the
J. DRURY
11
City Hall Park, Pace College area, to the Brooklyn
Bridge entrance where there was some guy in an
FDNY van sitting there, who I asked for a ride.
He agreed to drive me back over the Brooklyn
Bridge to headquarters, which I appreciated very
much.
     The memories I have of the day are after the
first collapse, running down that street just feet
ahead of that cloud.  And the amount of EMS and
fire personnel and civilians put out on the
streets, and walking literally for hours, both
after the first collapse and then after the second
collapse.  I guess I didn't get back to
headquarters for the first time until,
guesstimating, maybe two or three in the
afternoon.  I just remember the panic in the
street, people didn't know what to do.  I heard
that EMS was setting up a triage center at Pier 92
I think it was.  I remember running into other
EMTs on the street, seeing dozens of firefighters
arriving and then basically that was it.  I spent
the rest of the day in headquarters trying to help
out in any way I could.  I guess I didn't leave
headquarters that night until 12 or one in the
J. DRURY
12
     morning.
          That's basically what my memories are of the
     day.  The sight of the jumpers was horrible and
     the turning around and seeing that first tower
     come down was unbelieveable.  The sound it made.
     As I said I thought the terrorists planted
     explosives somewhere in the building.  That's how
     loud it was, crackling explosive, a wall.  That's
     about it.  Any questions?
     Q.   Any other feelings or thoughts that you might
want to have included in this?
     A.   No, it was just unbelieveable.  Seeing how
close Commissioner Von Essen and the Mayor were to that
location was also quite startling.  That's about it.
          MR. TAMBASCO:  Commissioner, I thank you for
     your interview and input.  This will conclude now
     at 1650 hours.
File No. 9110099
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       EMS LIEUTENANT AMY MONROE
   Interview Date:  October 17, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
A. MONROE
2
          MR. FEILER:  Today's date is October 17th,
2001.  The time now is 0934 hours and this is Monty
Feiler of the Fire Department of the City of New York.
I'm conducting an interview with the following
individual:
     Q.   Please state your name, rank and assigned
area of command.
     A.   Lieutenant Amy Monroe, EMS operations.
     Q.   We're conducting the interview in Chief
McCracken's office, 7th floor, 9 MetroTech, Fire
Department Headquarters, and the interview is regarding
the events of September 11th, 2001.
          If you can, begin with the morning's
activity, lieutenant.
     A.   I responded to the triage, actually the
staging center at Broadway between Fulton and Dey
Street.  Immediately after staging some of the
vehicles, I immediately moved to the triage center,
which was in front of the Millenium Hotel.  That was at
the intersection of Church and Fulton, directly in
front of World Trade Center 1, which is the north
tower, and I began to work there as the transport
officer responsible for transporting patients and
making sure patients were being transported to
A. MONROE
3
appropriate hospitals.
     Q.   How did you become aware of the incident?
     A.   I actually saw it on TV at home.  I called my
battalion and the officer there -- I was actually at
that time working for Battalion 4 -- was screaming and
saying get in here, just come in here.
     Q.   How did you get down to the location?
     A.   I drove my personal car to the station and I
drove an ambulance to -- had somebody drive me in an
ambulance to the location.
     Q.   Were you given any specific direction on
where to go, where to stage, anything like that?
     A.   I can't recall how I knew, but I knew where
the staging area was.  I think maybe I just heard it
over Citywide.  But I did know where to go.
     Q.   When you arrived, where did the ambulance
leave you?
     A.   We parked the ambulance on Broadway, Broadway
maybe and Dey, maybe a little bit further down, further
south.
     Q.   Did you encounter any other officers?
     A.   I did.  Lieutenant Bill Melaragno, he was
staging up on Broadway as well, and as I walked down to
the triage site, Captain Janice Olszewski was in charge
A. MONROE
4
there and Lieutenant Bruce Medjuck was there.  I don't
think I recall any other officers being there.
     Q.   As far as time reference, this was the first
plane, second plane?
     A.   This was after the second plane had hit.
     Q.   Then what happened after that?
     A.   We proceeded, like I said, to transport
patients, and during the middle of transporting -- we
had a lot of patients triaged which were sitting
against the Millenium Hotel and which were walking
wounded.  Some of the burn patients we were
transporting.  We didn't have a lot of units down there
at the time.  They were trying to hold the units back
onto Broadway.  So we only brought the units down when
it was absolute they were ready to pick up patients.
Q. Right.
     A.   Then World Trade Center 2 collapsed, and when
2 collapsed, I actually ran east on Fulton.  I was at
the triage on Church.  I ran east on Fulton, right near
St. Paul's Chapel.
     Q.   That's where you stayed?
     A.   Yes.  I ended up actually on Broadway and was
caught in the collapse.
     Q.   What happened after that?
A. MONROE
5
     A.   After I was caught in the collapse, I
eventually -- there were three civilians.  We were in a
vehicle.  Eventually we were able to drive out of the
collapse.  One of them was pretty serious.  We all, of
course, suffered from smoke inhalation.  We drove as
far as we could.  The vehicle died because it had been
exposed to, I guess, so much dust and everything.
          We drove to 14th Street and Broadway, and
another lieutenant who had seen us who was not in the
collapse was driving a command car, which was
Lieutenant Adam Brynes.  So when our vehicle died, he
picked up all of us and the patients and we proceeded
to Beth Israel Hospital.  I ended up at Beth Israel
Hospital for some time and the other patients, the
three civilians, were treated there.
     Q.   Anything else that you think is important,
any other EMS people that you may have run into or
spoken to that you recall?
     A.   No, I did not really.  I actually -- I'm
trying to think.  I did leave there.  I was actually
medicated, I had an IV, but I left there because I was
actually on the FEMA team.  So I left there and walked
home and then went back down and redeployed right after
that with the USAR team.
A. MONROE
6
          But as far as the officers that I ran into,
you know, after the collapse or during the collapse,
no, it was just so quick, it was so sudden, and then
really everybody was separated, totally separated.
     Q.   Did you have a radio?
     A.   I did have a radio, but there was really no
radio transmission until just -- during the collapse it
was so silent, and then after that I think the -- I
believe I did hear over the radio, what I was hearing,
what I thought I heard -- it might be wrong, but this
is what I thought I heard -- was deploy the weapons of
mass destruction, the antidote kits, and that's the
only thing I heard and that's the last thing I heard
and I didn't hear anything over the air after that.  I
don't know if my radio went dead or whatever.  My radio
was covered, though, so it was broken.
     Q.   The crew that drove you down there, do you
remember who they were?
     A.   The crew that drove me down there?  EMT Peter
(inaudible).  He was actually on light duty.  He drove
me down there.
     Q.   Anything else that you think is important?
     A.   No.
          MR. FEILER:  I want to thank you for spending
A. MONROE
7
the time with me for the interview.  It's 0940 hours
and this interview is concluded.
File No. 9110100
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
           CHIEF JERRY GOMBO
   Interview Date:  October 17, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
J. GOMBO
2
          MR. FEILER:  Today's date is October 17,
2001.  The time now is 0828 hours and this is Monty
Feiler of the Fire Department of the City of New York.
I'm conducting an interview with the following
individual:
     Q.   Please state your name, rank and assigned
command.
     A.   Assistant Chief Jerry Gombo from the EMS
operations.
     Q.   We're conducting this interview in Chief
Gombo's office on the 7th floor at EMS command.  The
interview is regarding the events of September 11,
2001, and if you can just begin at the morning of
September 11th.
     A.   Sure.  I logged on my usual early time,
somewhere prior to 0530, on that Tuesday morning and
arrived at my headquarters somewhere around 6:00
o'clock.  At that point I was just doing my usual
morning activities, reviewing UORs, just checking the
schedule, making sure that everything is in place as
far as getting prepared for the day for the most part
and reviewing the night activities.
          Then I recall somewhere prior to 9:00 o'clock
Ross Terranova, Lieutenant Terranova, who at the time
J. GOMBO
3
was working down or situated down at 5 Operations, came
running into my office informing me that a plane hit
the World Trade Center and it was observed by Chief
Ganci from his office.  I ran down the hall just to see
because you could see the towers from the other side of
the building, which is just a few yards down, and I
actually saw what appeared to be flames and smoke in
one of the Trade Centers.
          I gave Ross the keys to my car and I came
back here to secure my radio, which was charging, and
we went down to the garage to start responding to the
assignment.  From looking at the job history for that
day, I know that they assigned me to that job at about
0855 hours.  At the time three cars left from the
garage heading in that direction.  It was Chief Ganci,
Chief Nigro, followed by myself.  We went over the
Brooklyn Bridge and headed towards the Twin Towers.
     Q.   Were you with anybody?
     A.   With Ross.  Ross Terranova was driving the
vehicle and it was just the two of us in the car.  We
were there quickly.  As quickly as we left here, the
entrance ramp to the Brooklyn Bridge was already shut
down by PD, you know, accept for emergency vehicles.
So on the approach to the World Trade Center listening
J. GOMBO
4
to the units getting assigned to the Center, we knew
that -- well, obviously, we saw that there was a plane
at that time, we didn't know the significance, whether
it was a small plane, a large plane.  The initial
information was extremely sketchy at that point and I
believe there was no Manhattan Chief on duty at the
time.  I believe Chief Hart was in refresher.  So I
knew that I was for the most part the first due Chief
in coming from Fire headquarters.
          Anyway, as we made our way downtown, you
know, traffic started getting a little congested
already.  As we approached the towers, we ended up
leaving the car in close proximity of Trinity Church,
you know, there's a cemetery there, downtown.
     Q.   On the map, where would that be?  What would
be the cross streets?
     A.   Okay.
          (Pause.)
     A.   I don't believe it's on your map.
     Q.   Would that have been somewhere on Church
Street?
     A.   It's off of Church.  Trinity Church.
          (Pause.)
     Q.   Actually, we can look for that later if you'd
J. GOMBO
5
like.
     A.   Okay.  Anyway I parked over -- well, actually
Ross parked over in close proximity to the church and
then we walked on foot towards the World Trade Center,
which was down the block.  It was in close proximity,
but not so close as to interfere with any type of
responding vehicles or anything like that.
          As we approached the towers, this would be
from the east side heading west, we saw people it
appeared, lots of people, you know, possibly hundreds,
evacuated, which was a good thing.  It seemed to be
fairly quickly but in an orderly fashion as well.  We
saw several EMS units and I believe they were Fire
Department units at the time.  I know I did converse
with a few of them because they were treating patients
laying on the floor and this was on Church.  Everybody
was wearing their helmet, which was good because there
was debris, like just different types of parts.  It
might have been like plane parts, in fact, they did
look like it, on the floor with stuff coming down as
well.
          So I told the crews to cross back up to the
further side of Church and that's where they should set
up their treatment and triage area at that point.  I
J. GOMBO
6
don't believe there were any officers there, but there
were like two or three units operating and they were
setting up triage.  I don't recall any of the
employees' names.
          At that point I wanted to head to the other
side of the tower where our planned staging is
located.  I walked around on foot, of course, the other
side of the tower.  Now I'm on the south side of the
tower, which was West Street, and there I encountered
several other EMS units that were coming into the
area.  People were exiting the building, the Trade
Center.  Lots of people, it appeared, in orderly
fashion, but there didn't seem to be any patients, if
you will.  Everybody was like walking and no one was
complaining of any types of injuries or ailments or
anything like that.  So we set up a staging area on
West and Vesey and I think that was communicated to
citywide that that's where the units should come in
to.
          At that point I did come across several EMS
officers.  Captain Olszewski from this office as well
as Bruce Medjuck, who I sent around to where I
initially came, because when I arrived there, there
were no supervisors operating on the east side of the
J. GOMBO
building.
     Q.   Church Street?
7
     A.   Right.  So there were no supervisors there.
Although I knew more bosses were responding in, I felt
it important to get at least a captain and a lieutenant
there.  So they were both directed to go over there and
to set up a staging and treatment sector there.
          On my side now, I ran into several people,
Captain Stone, Captain Pinkus, and Ross, who was with
me the whole time.  He had the radio and stuff like
that.  Those two captains, I believe Chief Basile and
maybe Captain Sickles as well.  I did a similar type of
setup on that side as well.  Because there were no
patients at all, we communicated that staging should be
set up there.  I believe I left Captain Pinkus over
there to coordinate staging, which at that point was
going to be our primary staging location.
          I inquired as to where the Fire command post
was set up at that point and I was told that it was in
the lobby of the tower.
     Q.   The north tower?
     A.   Tower No. 2.
     Q.   Which I believe is the south tower?
     A.   Let me just look at your map.  This is the
J. GOMBO
8
north tower.  Where is the south tower on your map?
     Q.   Right here.
     A.   I believe it was the north tower, correct.
          So I made my way over to the command post
with I believe Captain Stone, and we took a crew with
us on foot, you know, the ambulances were staging
there, and we headed towards the lobby of the command
post.
          As we were approaching the lobby of the
command post, at that point we saw there were a
significant amount of body parts, torsos, half torsos,
arms, the whole gamut, as far as what one might expect
from this type of disaster.  I made my way into the
command post.  I informed Chief Hayden, who was at the
time the incident commander, that we're here and that
we're going to be setting up EMS operations staging
outside.  Obviously, he was involved with coordinating
a significant amount of Fire resources.  And I said, if
you need anything, I'll remain in eyeshot.
          Once again, although there were a significant
number of body parts exterior, there were really no
viable patients to contend with.  There were not many
civilians in the lobby where the command post was being
set up.  It was I believe the security desk.  You know
J. GOMBO
9
where when you come in into the center you check in.
     Q.   Right.
     A.   So there were like security personnel by the
command post, building security that is, you know, and
a significant number of Fire personnel as well as PD,
but beyond that, few if any civilians that I noticed.
          I did run across Chief Gabriel, who was
assigned to OEM.  We conversed a little as to what the
game plan was going to be as far as EMS, once again,
keeping in mind that people were exiting and we weren't
being overwhelmed with patients.
          I believe at that point we couldn't transmit
over the radio from in there, the citywide frequency,
you know, it was just too much interference.  Even
though we were in the lobby and the majority of the
windows were blown out, we weren't able to transmit.  I
don't know whether it was because it was just
interference or whether there were too many units on
the frequency.
          So we were there for a few minutes and Chief
Callan from the Fire Department, one of the tour
commanders, I believe it was him that initially told
me, but it could have been Chief Hayden, I don't recall
which Chief told us that they were going to secure the
J. GOMBO
10
command post from the tower lobby and move it directly
across West Street.  Also, that I should pull the EMS
resources out of the tower, it was deemed not safe, you
know, and that they would be pulling out the Fire
resources as well and set up across the street.
          I believe I left Chief Basile and Captain
Stone there to make sure that all the EMS resources
were pulled out.  There was a lot of emergency
personnel coming in and out and given the fact that we
don't have protective clothing, the decision was made
for EMS to evacuate.  I left them there to make sure
that EMS personnel were evacuated from that area and
returned to the staging location.  Then once again on
foot with Ross I started to make my way out of the
tower lobby and go to the command post, which was going
to be on the other side of West Street.
          So I arrived at the command post there and at
that point they had the Fire command post set up there
and Chief Kowalczyk was on the scene.  He was the major
that day, so he functioned as the operations officer,
and I was there.  I recall being with Chief Ganci and
Commissioner Feehan and several other Chief officers
from Fire and, once again, Fire set up their post,
their command post, and we set up a few feet away in
J. GOMBO
11
eyeshot.  I asked Chief Kowalczyk to continue
functioning as the operations officer.  Apparently, he
was able to communicate with the radio at that point.
          I believe that the initial staging that was
set up on both sides of the building were functioning
and active.  However, once again, there weren't a
significant number of patients to deal with.
          No sooner than, I don't know, it seemed like
a few minutes -- and I have to just share with you at
this point, my times might be off.  At the corner of my
eye, the second plane now comes into the building.  I
know that there was a time line that you shared and...
     Q.   9:06.
     A.   9:06 was the second plane?
     Q.   Right.
     A.   Okay.  At that point I would say that we knew
it wasn't an accident.  I mean, two planes on a clear,
sunny, warm day, into the Trade Center, we knew that
there was something very unusual going on.  At the time
of the impact, we were able to feel heat that was
generated from the explosion at the command post, which
was across West Street, and West is a fairly large
street with that island in there, and debris was
showering all over West Street.  And I can only tell
12
civilians exiting the building increased, but
throughout, for the most part, there was an orderly
evacuation of personnel.  I guess the sense was
disbelief, you know, because here you're dealing with
one major operation and before you know it, it's like a
mirror image, if you will, but this one, when you were
there and you heard it and you felt it, it had more of
an impact.
          So at that point I believe I was conversing
with Chief Kowalczyk about the operation and the
deployment of some resources, both ambulance and Chief
officers, further down West Street to deal now with
this other plane into the tower that we were going to
have to contend with.
          No sooner than that, I guess the best words
that I could describe this, it felt sort of like an
earthquake.  The sky darkened and you heard this
thunderous roar.  It was like a volcano, if you will,
not that I ever experienced a volcano, but I guess
that's the way I could describe it, and this cloud just
coming down.  The ground was shaking and this roar and
at that point everybody from the command post -- I
J. GOMBO
you from what was within my eyesight.
          It appeared after that the pace of the
J. GOMBO
13
forgot to tell you where.
          The command post was in the driveway of 2
World Financial Center.  It was a fairly large-sized
driveway.  So we were on the incline, we meaning the
Fire and EMS command post.
     Q.   Where would that be on the map?
     A.   Right here.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   2 World Financial Center, there's a driveway
leading to West Street, similar to the driveway when
you come into Fire headquarters, but whereas this you
drive into the building and it's covered as soon as you
enter, there the driveway was open; there was no roof
on top of it.  So you had the incline and we were set
up right at the base where the street met the driveway
and, like I said, Fire and us, and then this thing came
down on us, which obviously was the first tower that
collapsed, and everybody took cover or ran.
          I'm not sure whether I was pulled or it was
instant, but based on the incline, we went into the
garage of 2 World Financial Center.  I know Ross was
with me.  I believe there were maybe up to 20 other
emergency service personnel there.  However, it was
difficult to tell because what happened was we ran in,
J. GOMBO
14
we dove behind this white van that was parked like at
the base of the driveway.  We ducked behind that and
then the whole place became dark as a result of debris
just filling the whole driveway.  And mind you, this
was a significant-sized driveway.  We knew there was a
lot of debris out there and, like I said, it appeared
that some of the people ran in the opposite direction
from the garage and quite a few people did retreat to
the garage.
          There were no lights.  It was dark.  As much
as you wanted to breathe, it was extremely painful.
I'm sure I'm going to reiterate what other people
experienced.  Every time you took a breath, your mouth
filled up with this soot, powder, cement, whatever it
was, and although you didn't want to breathe, you
didn't have a choice; you had to breathe.
          I carry a flashlight on me always and I know
that people always are like why do you need a
flashlight?  So I took out the flashlight and I turned
it on and you still couldn't see in front of you; there
was that much debris and stuff.  So what I attempted to
do to the best of my ability without having good vision
 -- and there were a few of us.  We were talking.  We
were able to communicate with each other.  I think what
J. GOMBO
15
we wanted to make sure was, before we advanced to the
back of the garage, because we were not going to be
able to exit the way we came down because the whole
exit or entrance to the garage was covered with debris,
we just wanted to make sure that we weren't leaving
anybody that was like partially trapped, if you will,
behind us.  To the best of our ability we made sure
that we moved forward not leaving anybody behind.
However, you know, we didn't know what was going on at
the other side of the rubble.
          We made our way up a small staircase that
looked like maybe the attendant or security office of
the garage, and I recall seeing this water cooler, you
know, the five-gallon jugs of water.  There were a
significant number of people down there at the time and
we were all rinsing our mouths just trying to get some
of the soot out of our mouths so that we could
breathe.  There were a few Fire personnel.  I remember
an OEM, Harry Winters, was down there with us.  Who
else?  Several firefighters.
          We asked them, because they had their Scott
packs and stuff, to find us an exit because clearly we
weren't getting out the way we came in and we couldn't
see any doors right in the back.  There was a phone on
J. GOMBO
16
the desk where this water cooler was, but it was dead.
I mean, there were no phone calls.  So at this point we
didn't have any type of radio communication, the cell
phones didn't work, the hard line phone didn't work,
there were no lights, and once everybody got into the
office area we closed the door behind us and put
something by the door to try to keep the area as clean
as possible without all this soot.  I mean, it was
beyond belief the amount of soot that was in the
garage.
          We must have been there, although it seemed
like an eternity, a few minutes when they informed us
that there was an exit onto the marina side.  If you
look over here on the map, it would be the North Cove
Yacht Harbor.  So we exited from the back through a
staircase.  We had to go up because we were in the
basement and we came down on this side and it was
amazing.  When you exited on this side, it was a sunny,
beautiful day.  There was no debris, no anything over
here.
          So at that point we decided we were going to,
once again, return to the command post.  The way we
were going to go about doing that is there was a
walkway or a driveway that led you onto North End.  We
J. GOMBO
17
were going to go back down Vesey to West and be at the
command post, you know, to continue coordinating the
operation.  When we got to Vesey and North End, right
over here, there were a significant number of EMS
resources staging there.
          Now, it was like wild because when we were in
the harbor here, it was like nothing happened, and as
soon as we were able to make that turn and visualize
what was going on, it was like going from one extreme
to the other.  There was still soot coming down, and
one of the amazing things, that paper, I mean, as much
as that doesn't seem significant, mounds and mounds of
paper just scattered all over the place.  So, as you
were walking, if you could imagine walking in a
snowstorm?
Q. Right.
     A.   That's what it actually was.  You had this
soot coming down on you and then in lieu of snow on the
ground you had mounds and mounds of paper, I mean, an
unbelievable amount of paper.  I'm not talking about
one.  Just every time you took a step there were mounds
of it, it was inches high, plus all of the soot and
debris and stuff like that.
          So there were quite a few ambulance resources
J. GOMBO
18
not limited to Fire, you know, and the MERV ended up
here.  At that point we were informed that the initial
triage that was set up on West and Vesey retreated one
block at the time of the collapse.
          Now, when we ran into the basement, we lost
contact with the world.  We really didn't know what was
going on on the outside, and our initial objective was
to make it back to the command post.
          Anyway, we did bump into a whole bunch of EMS
personnel here and they had a treatment sector going on
in the lobby of the building here.  I don't recall the
name of the building.  But, once again, it was a fairly
large lobby and seemed to be a safe environment because
you didn't have all that soot or garbage coming down,
and there were patients and treatment going down there.
     Q.   Civilian patients or a combination?
     A.   I believe primarily civilian patients.
          So I recall at that point seeing Chief
Carrasquillo, I believe it was, and it seemed to me
that they were able to deal with the patient load that
they had there.  So I was going to attempt once again
to make my way up Vesey back to the command post.
          No sooner did we get, I would say, several
yards down Vesey Street heading east to west when the
J. GOMBO
19
second tower came down, and once again this huge
mushroom cloud, not going up but coming towards us.  So
there was a rush of primarily uniformed personnel.
Now, according to this, the north tower, that was at
10:29.
Q. Right.
     A.   So I take it that that's an approximate time
that we started making our way there.  So once again we
retreated back to this lobby area.
          Now, at that point there were several EMS
chiefs that were there.  I remember Chief Goldfarb,
Chief Villani, Chief Pascale, Chief Carrasquillo and
Chief Kowalczyk, besides myself.  We went into the
stairwell of the building here just to converse for a
little while and to put together some type of
strategy.
          Once again, mind you, we have no
communications with the outside world and, in essence,
what we were able to see is just what we were able to
see on this block.  So there are no phones, no radio
communications.
          We spoke, and after assessing the situation,
the decision was made that it was not safe for us to
try to make our way back up Vesey to West.  We did not
J. GOMBO
20
know whether there were other buildings in danger of
collapsing, and at that point the decision was made for
the EMS resources to go to two different staging areas
on the outskirts of this incident.  The decision was
made, on the north, Chelsea Piers because there was a
large parking area.  We really wanted to move back out
of this area until it was deemed safe for EMS personnel
to operate.  On the south, we decided that we would use
the ferry terminal, Staten Island ferry terminal.  So
those were the two staging areas that we were going to
send the EMS resources that were there after they
finished treating the patients.
          I divvied up the chiefs that were with me.  I
believe I sent Chief Pascale and maybe Chief Villani to
the ferry terminal and Chief Basile I sent, I believe
it was Chief Basile, up to Chelsea.  Mind you, all of
this had to be on foot because the cars were elsewhere
and we didn't know their condition, and because there
was no communication with anybody.  I told them, I told
these chiefs, we're going to go there.  We're going to
secure this area with patients.  I left Chief
Carrasquillo behind until we were able to evacuate that
location and go to those two locations.
          I decided that I was going to make it to One
J. GOMBO
21
Police Plaza.  Knowing that we weren't going to have
access to 7 World Trade Center where the OEM office is,
the most logical thing that came to mind within walking
distance would be One Police Plaza.  So I figured I
would go there.  I took Chief Goldfarb, Ross Terranova
and Chief Goldfarb's aide with me.
          That was the plan.  The resources would go to
those two staging areas and I would go to Police Plaza
and try to coordinate activities there.
     Q.   At this time I'm just going to change the
tape to side B.
     A.   Sure.
          (Pause.)
     Q.   Continuing the interview with Chief Jerry
Gombo, go ahead, sir.
     A.   Okay.  So we started on foot heading towards
One Police Plaza, the four of us, and as a result of
what was going on and what we were able to determine,
we decided that we would need to take the scenic route,
if you will, around to One Police Plaza.  We were going
to walk north and up around City Hall and then come
around to One Police Plaza as opposed to trying to make
our way across Vesey.  Although that would have been
quicker, at that point I deemed it to be too
J. GOMBO
22
dangerous.
          We walked a few blocks.  I remember a few
things that come to mind that I most probably will
never forget.  The silence.  It was just dead silent,
like it was like the middle of the night, but yet it
was sort of day with this haze.  You saw this smoke,
the soot was still coming down, papers all over the
place, and that was pretty much the way it was
throughout our journey.
          I came across Chief Callan, who prior to
that, the last time I saw him was in the lobby of the
Trade Center where they set up the command post.  He
appeared not to be injured but to be in a daze.  I
informed him at this point I was going to make it on
foot to One Police Plaza.  I invited him to come with
us so that we could set up some type of operation there
and coordinate it with the other agencies, and he opted
not to take me up on that offer but to attempt to make
it back to the command post.
          I asked him that, if he was able to do that
and if he saw Chief McCracken or any of the other EMS
chiefs operating on the scene, to let them know what we
did as far as the two staging areas where we retreated
to and let them know that I was making my way to One
J. GOMBO
23
Police Plaza.  Just like I didn't know who else was
operating on the scene as a result of not having
communication, I knew that people were going to be
inquiring as to individuals' whereabouts and things
like that.  I knew it was going to take us some time to
make it to where we needed to go.
     Q.   Where did you meet Chief Callan?
     A.   It had to be several blocks from Vesey and
North End.  I believe we were walking up North End and
I believe that actually changes into some other
street.  But that was the direction which we were
heading in.  We were heading north on North End, once
again, in an attempt to come around City Hall, which is
not on the map here, I don't believe.
     Q.   This is City Hall park here.
     A.   Oh, City Hall park.  Okay.  So our plan was
we were going to make our way up North End, City Hall
Park, I think to -- well, it had to be somewhere I
would say around maybe Murray or Park.  The reason why
I say that, after we passed Chief Callan, after another
few minutes on foot, a police officer from the Chief of
Department's office came by in a golf cart and he
noticed us.  We were wearing our uniforms and helmets
and he saw the stars.  We flagged him down and asked if
J. GOMBO
24
he would be kind enough to take us over to One Police
Plaza.  We were trying to get to command and control.
He was gracious enough to do that.  So the four of us
got onto this golf cart and this officer took us over
to One Police Plaza, which saved us a significant
amount of travel time because we were going to do this
on foot and he was able to take us practically to the
door, which was great.
          We got to One Police Plaza and we went up to
command and control, which was on the 8th floor.  I
went over to the desk and inquired whether there were
any other Fire Department personnel here, which at the
time I was informed that there were not.  I told them
that we're from the Fire Department, EMS, and the room
was jammed with all different types of representation
from agencies.  However, we were the first Fire
Department reps to get there.
          Within a few minutes they were able to give
us some table space and some phones.  I made contact
with several locations at that time.  I called FOP,
fire operations.  I introduced myself to them and gave
them the phone number and I told them that I was at
command and control.  I made similar notifications to
EMD, our office here in operations, and we just tried
J. GOMBO
25
to coordinate whatever information we were able to get
from EMD or FOP at the time.
          We were there actually for quite a few
hours.  We finally left that location at I would say
roughly 10:00 o'clock or so in the evening.  I called
and had Captain Connelly, who was on duty, come down to
man command and control.  There were other Fire
personnel.  I don't recall the officer's name, but
there were a few other Fire personnel that prior to
that, like several hours after we arrived there, also
arrived to represent the Fire Department.
When I left in the evening at 10:00 o'clock, we made our way, once again, on foot, back towards the EMS command post at that time. We went past Trinity ChurchtoseeifIhadacarandifitwasthere. To my surprise it was. It had a significant number of scratches needless to say. The driver's window was smashed. But the car was there. There was Fire apparatus around it functioning with Fire personnel. There were charged hoses all around the car.
          So I figured it was safe.  At that point we
made it down to the command post where it was good to
see some of the EMS personnel that either I didn't see
beforehand or I did and we got lost in the sauce, if
J. GOMBO
26
you will.  I stood there for a little while and then
made it to my car and I was able to get it out, and
that's the story for 9/11.
     Q.   I just want to ask, after the first building
collapsed, you said that the Fire command post had
relocated to World Financial Center?
     A.   No, no.  From the lobby.  That was prior to
the second plane hitting.
     Q.   Did you ever re-establish contact with them
or you never made it back to them?
     A.   No.  We weren't able to do that.  We came out
on the marina side, because the whole garage, we were
buried.  We were buried in the garage.  So I made it
out the marina side up North on Vesey and attempted to
go back, but when we made this turn and went up Vesey,
that's when the second building came down, and at that
point the decision was made that there was no sense in
jeopardizing our safety in making it to that location.
If we couldn't even make it up this block, we said
there would be no way that the command post would be
able to be functioning at that location, and that's
when we made the decision for the two staging areas in
a safe proximity away.  Because we had no phones or
radio communications, that's when I decided I would
J. GOMBO
27
hope that One Police Plaza would be the most logical
thing.  I found out after we were there for several
hours that an interagency command post was set up at
the Police Academy up on 23rd Street.  As to why that
decision was made, that was beyond me.
     Q.   Was there any other EMS personnel or Fire
Department personnel that you remember seeing that we
didn't talk about?
     A.   There were so many names and faces.  I tried
to mention the ones that I had the most interaction
with.  I'm sure that I left out some specific names and
locations.  Most probably, somewhere as I was crossing
over from the tower to the secondary Fire command post
on the other side of West Street, I saw a lot of EMS
personnel, but at this point the names escape me.  So I
was only able to recall the ones that I interacted with
or had conversation or gave direction to or things like
that.  But that's my plight and I'm glad I'm here to
share it with you.
Q. I agree.
     A.   Hopefully I was able to give you some insight
as to some of my actions during the course of the day.
Unfortunately, afterwards we found out that the people
we were with at the command post didn't make it.  You
J. GOMBO
28
know, Chief Ganci and Commissioner Feehan and Father
Judge, just a tremendous loss, a tremendous loss.
     Q.   Is there anything else that you'd like to
add?
     A.   You know what?  I think I gave you everything
that comes to mind, leaving out some of the gory
details, which I'm sure other people have talked
about.  But as far as an operations perspective, I
think I shared with you the most significant things
that I'd been involved with.
          It was just a very difficult situation.  I've
responded to my share of MCIs during my career and this
was a very complex situation as a result of the ongoing
collapses.  From a patient perspective, it wasn't that
complex, but there was absolutely no communication
other than face to face.  No cells, no radios.  The
only thing I could say, in retrospect, I believe that
we made the best decisions as to how to proceed
operationally given our assessment of the situation and
the resources and the scenario that we were presented
with.
          MR. FEILER:  Okay.  I want to thank you very
much for participating.  The time now is 0923 and this
concludes the interview.

F i l e No. 9110101
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW P ARAMEDIC N E I L SWEETING Interview Date: October 17, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins

N. SWEETING
MS. BASTEDENBECK: Today is October 17th. The time is 11:31 a.m. My name is Christine Bastedenbeck. I work for the New York City Fire Department. I'm conducting an interview this morning at Battalion 20 with the following individual.
PARAMEDIC SWEETING: Neil Sweeting-5274, assigned as the paramedic coordinator for Division 6.
Q. Neil, I'm just going to ask you if you
can recount the events of the morning of September llth, 2001.
A. I was in the division office, which is located up in the north Bronx on the grounds of Jacobi Hospital, when we started hearing reports of a plane crash into one of the towers at the Trade Center.
Chief Pascale from the division got paged, and she came out and told us about this. We started hearing reports of it over the citywide radio frequency. We turned the television on in the office, and pretty shocked, just as anybody was.
My first thoughts were oh, my God, some

N. SWEETING 3
plane was drastically off course and crashed into the building. I didn't realize it was a large airliner. I thought it was a small plane, just seeing these awful photos of terrible fires and smoke billowing out.
We hung out at the division. I was chomping at the bit with everybody else wanting to get down there, but the chief was holding us back until she was assigned.
While we were watching, we were hearing the radio on the citywide frequency, and all these units being assigned and supervisors calling for more help and trying to set up different treatment areas, when we saw the second plane hit.
I remember saying to the other coordinator, Steven Pilla, that we saw the plane go by, and my first thought again was oh, my God, this pilot must have been blinded by the smoke or distracted and then he crashed right into the building. At that point we realized something was seriously wrong.
At this point Chief Pascale said, "Let's go," and we all ran out of the office and

N. SWEETING
jumped in the car and started heading downtown. There were five of us in the chief's car. I was driving Chief Pascale, Lieutenant Mike Cahill, Steve Pilla and EMT Arnedegnato.
We started heading down, cut across the Bronx, got to the West Side Highway, and proceeded down and actually got caught in traffic around 125th Street - - 158th Street. The Police Department was turning all vehicles off the highway, but they were ushering emergency vehicles through. But we got tied up in the traffic up until that point, which was annoying but at this point, as the story went, it may have had a tremendous outcome on the five of us in that car.
I remember driving down the highway, and when we got down, oh, into like the eighties and nineties on the highway, we started to get a really good view of lower Manhattan and you could see the two towers burning. It was just surreal.
We started hearing terrible screams on the radio of people yelling, "Oh, my God, there are people jumping! There are people jumping!" I was at the first Trade Center disaster in '93,

N . SWEETING
and I thought that was going to be the biggest thing I would ever experience in my career. I had a feeling this was going to be even worse, not knowing they were going t o f a l l down.
As we got closer, I remember saying to the other people, I said, "This is the kind of fire, there are going to be a lot of people dead in this. This is also a fire that you're going to lose firemen in. This is where people are going to die, unfortunately."
We proceeded down. We got stuck in a little more traffic down below 57th Street when we hit like 12th Avenue, the West Side Highway there. We made it down, and we got I believe it was around West Street and Barclay, which is probably about two blocks, a block and a half away, when Steve actually said, "Oh, my God." I looked up, and the tower's falling.
We didn't hear it, which was really weird, because we had the radios going and the sirens going. So I didn't hear the sound of it initially. Once I looked up, I started hearing it.
At this point hundreds of people are

N. SWEETING 6
running at us. We pulled over - - we looked for a spot to park initially, but then there were so many people coming at us that I was going to run somebody over. We just abandoned the car on the corner of West Street and Barclay.
Q. Where you indicated the number 1 on the map ?
A. Yes.
I remember all four doors opened up
before we even stopped moving. We pulled over, we jumped out and popped the trunk quickly and grabbed our helmets and just started running and got enveloped by this cloud of dust that's so vivid to everybody now.
We didn't really understood the magnitude as to what had happened at this point. There was just so many people running towards us. We kind of went west towards the Hudson River.
We were just totally enveloped in this cloud.
You couldn't see. It was choking. It was in your eyes. I felt like somebody had poured a cup of sand down my throat. It was horrible.
After about ten minutes of this, it kind of calmed down a little bit. People stopped

N. SWEETING
running. We actually headed back down closer in to see what we could do and got down to Vesey Street.
Q. At that time were all of you still together?
A. No, we weren't. No, I'm sorry, we were together. We all ended up back on Vesey. We didn't walk down as a group, but we all kind of migrated, because people were kind of turning back and going down to see what they could do.
We got to Vesey, and we were - - at Vesey and West there's I believe it was part of the Financial Center. We started helping some people that were coming out and looking for a triage area. People came out, and Chief Villani, a chief from the Fire Department from EMS, said,
"Let's start setting up a triage area here in the lobby of this building."
We started actually seeing a lot of patients. They were bringing a lot of people in. We didn't have a lot of equipment. We didn't have anything with us. But even the units that were there, people had run and abandoned their equipment during the initial stages. But people

N. SWEETING
started getting stuff, and we brought a lot of oxygen in. It was basically just a quick triage, and we were trying to move some people out.
I remember a battalion chief coming in. There were two chiefs. There was one chief that we were treating who was badly injured. His head was split and he was bleeding bad, and he was just in a daze and just staring straight ahead like he had no idea what had happened. None of us.
Another chief came in - - and he was telling us first, the first chief, "We shouldn't be here. We should get out of here." A second chief came in and said, "Listen, we need to move.
This is a I thought away from
Q. A. Q. A.
terrorist act." That's the first time that way. He said, "We've got to get this place."
They were both fire suppression chiefs? Fire suppression chiefs.
Do you know their names?
No, I don't.
We started moving out, loading people
up. We
point, and we were just loading patients, just
brought a bunch of stretchers at this

N . SWEETING
putting them on the stretchers. We had some people that were pretty seriously hurt, some head injuries, a couple people -- there was one gentleman that was unconscious, a lot of people with respiratory problems from a l l the dust, eye injuries from the dust. We started throwing them on stretchers and running and getting out.
I remember the maintenance guys or engineers from this building, this big office building, brought big jugs of water that we were using, and we were wiping people down and flushing eyes. They had a cart full, like a linen cart, full of towels, which was great, because we were wiping people down. It was really very helpful.
I remember when we heard abandon the site, I said, wow, this would be really good to keep with us. So I started pushing this cart, and I got stuck in the doorway with it, when we started hearing this rumble. I can remember -- I specifically remember this like twisting sound of metal. We were probably about half a block away from the complex at this point.
You heard a big boom, it was quiet for

N. SWEETING 10
about ten seconds. Then you could hear another one. Now I realize it was the floors starting to stack on top of each other as they were falling. It was spaced apart in the beginning, but then it got to just a tremendous roar and a rumble that I will never forget.
We started running. People were diving into the back of ambulances that were open and on the hoods of ambulances, cars. Anything that was moving, they were trying to get into. There was one ambulance, there must have been 25 people piled into the back of it: firemen, policemen, civilians, EMS. It was just incredible.
I remember the MERV bus with the ramp that it had going up the street. The guy didn't even stop to unhook the stairs of the ramp, and everything was dragging down the street. I thought it ironic, watch somebody live through this and get run over by the MERV or wiped out by this ramp that was dragging behind the bus.
We started running, but there was a woman on Vesey Street between the Financial Center and the complex, like the plaza, and she got hit with something. She just went down like

N . SWEETING 11
a shot. She got up and tried to run and just collapsed again. You could see that she had snapped her leg, her ankle, like right at the TIB-FIB and her ankle. It looked like when horses snap their hoof. Her foot was just flopping. The poor woman was trying to run.
I saw her, and a paramedic from Cabrini Hospital -- I don't even know his name -- he must have seen her at the same time because he ran down and we picked her up, the two of us, and started running west on Vesey Street towards Battery Park and the promenade and towards the Hudson River, when the wave, the first
concussion, came down the street.
When you were that close, there was like a wind to it. I'm 6-4 and 240 pounds, and it knocked me down like a rag doll, ten feet away, down the street. I landed on top of this poor woman. She was having a bad enough day.
We picked her up, and I ran to the corner of the Financial Center building and I guess that's part of the promenade there for Battery Park, the walkway there.
Q. Right over here, World Financial.

N. SWEETING 12
A. No. Right. Okay. I picked her up like right in here. We ran down here. Actually on this building here, we dove down the side of that building to use it as a - -
Q. You're indicating you dove around the corner of Three World Financial Center?
A. Of Three World Financial Center.
Q. The American Express building?
A. Right, into this like courtyard here. Q. Okay.
A. And used that as a shield to cover us.
I think that I had my helmet. Actually since I was - - actually the assignment I'm in right now is a very last-minute, temporary assignment. I didn't have my helmet or coat or anything with me. It was all back in my station in Harlem. So I grabbed somebody's helmet from here.
Thankfully when I ran out the door I grabbed somebody's helmet.
When I dove around the corner, I just curled up into a fetal position and covered my head and just tried to ride it out. There was just this roar. It was pitch-black. I could feel stuff hitting me but not like big debris but

N. SWEETING 13
smaller stuff that was mixed in with this cloud. It was choking. It was hard to breathe. You couldn't see.
Then the concussion and the wave stopped, and you were still encompassed in this, but the pressure wasn't to it that was initially there. We were stuck in this cloud probably for 20, 30 minutes afterwards. The cloud eventually went blocks and blocks up the street.
I grabbed an ambulance. I flagged an ambulance coming down, and I had the guy quickly toss some stuff into my eyes, water, because I couldn't see. I remember reaching in and grabbing one of his masks that he had. I just threw that on.
We picked the woman up, and we just put her on the bench. He had some people in there, so we just laid this lady out on the bench. That was the last I saw of her. It was an ambulance unit from St. Vincent's Hospital, and they just started heading north up out of the area.
I stayed and was walking in a daze. I remember there was so much stuff hitting my eyes I had to put my sunglasses on, which was really

N. SWEETING 14
kind of funny. Here it was dark. It was almost pitch-black, and I ' m walking around with sunglasses, just because I needed something to block my eyes.
Then it was just eerily quiet. It was just so quiet. I don't know if it was from the dust that was just suffocating the air. But for the next 10 minutes, 15 minutes, nobody knew where to go, what to do and where to start.
There were a l o t of people walking around, but there weren't a lot of -- now that I think back, there weren't a lot of walking wounded. There really were more just people stunned that were walking around.
I'll never forget how quiet it was. I said it to people that day, but it's actually an analogy that seems to be being used a lot, like after it snows when it's very quiet. You could hear people calling out. You could hear a lot of firemen, their alarms going off on their air packs.
I had a radio with me which I lost when I got tumbled, thrown. It came out of the holster. So I couldn't talk to anybody. I

N. SWEETING 15
didn't know where anybody was. The four other people I was with, I had no idea where they were. I knew they were with me when we were in the Financial Center and then started running out. I found two of them in about 45 minutes. Another
one was about an hour after heading north out of there. But Chief Pascale about five hours, and I was had no idea where she went.
that as we started
we didn't find for like, oh, my God. We One of the guys said they saw her running - - when the second one came,
they saw her running north. I'm figuring that she wasn't buried, because we weren't right underneath it. We were knocked down by the concussion, but we weren't - - so I didn't think she was buried or anything, but I didn't know where she had gone at this point.
So we tried to see what we could do down there. Some people were coming up to me asking for help. My first 45 minutes of triage just involved telling people "Go north. Get out of here. You don't want to be here." They would ask me, "Where do I go?" I said, "I don't know. But you don't want to be here, go north. They'll

N. SWEETING 16
be setting stuff up." Just get people out of there.
I don't know who it was that told me, but we finally started moving. When I started running into some of the other people, they had some radios. They were advising people to go up to Stuyvesant High School, which is on the corner of Chambers Street and West.
We got in there, and we were in the building like a minute when people just started screaming, "Run, run, run, run." I'm like, oh, my God, now what? It was one of those things, you just run when everybody's running. People are just storming out the back doors and just running up the highway, West Side Highway there.
I find out that it was - - one, somebody said there was a bomb, but it turned out it was Con Edison was screaming that there was a gas leak and they were afraid something was going to happen, it was going to blow up. Everybody was just so jumpy at the time that just the slightest thing would set them off. People were just running.
So we ran out of there. We were then

N. SWEETING 17
again milling around, not knowing where to go. We were originally trying to get a triage area set up in Stuyvesant High School. Everybody bailed out on that. Then there were people saying to go to Chelsea Piers, which was a good hike. That's a good 20 blocks away.
We started walking, and I got up to north Moore Street and the West Side Highway. It's part of the Borough of Manhattan Community College. The Port Authority had kind of taken over this building, the police. They were using the gymnasium as their meeting point and treatment area there for their employees.
They started calling, "EMS, EMS, EMS. We have some guys hurt." So we went in there. Again, I didn't have a radio. I couldn't talk to anybody. I didn't have any equipment. There were a few people; mostly walking wounded, but there were a few people that were pretty banged up, a lot of respiratory problems. I didn't even have an oxygen tank.
I guess a few more units or some people must have gotten flagged because some equipment started coming in there. I don't know where Port

N . SWEETING
Authority -- they must have had some type of contingency for their equipment from their other facilities at the airports or bridges and
tunnels, because they started bringing truckloads of their equipment in.
So we stayed there, the three of us. We stayed there pretty much for a good four or five hours. I'll never forget, they brought a
truck, and it looks like they must have gone to a Duane Reade store because they must have just
held the bags up and people cleared the shelves, because there were like hundreds of bottles of Tylenol and bandages and tape and gauze. I could just see they probably cleared out a Duane Reade store.
So we tried to do whatever help we could. Some hospital doctors were showing up,
and they started bringing some of their own equipment in. So we started having some stuff. That wasn't one of the actual EMS or Fire Department established triage areas; this was pretty much one of the hospitals started doing it at that point. But we hung out there for a good part of the day helping out, seeing what we could

do.
N. SWEETING
I remember I figured I need to call my wife. I know she's going to be freaking out. She's a schoolteacher over in Queens. I called her school, and I couldn't get through. It was busy, busy, busy. At first I couldn't get her cell phone. I finally - - I guess this whole thing happened before 11:OO. I finally was able to get through to her at about 4:00 that afternoon.
I went and started walking around Manhattan College, Borough of Manhattan College, and I left the gymnasium and was walking through the hallways, just trying to find any office that was open that I could use the telephone. I was sitting at some guy's - - I don't even know who it was, somebody's desk, and using his phone.
I called my house. She wasn't home. Something made me just call her family in Queens. It turns out that's where she went, because they had closed a lot of bridges down in the city. She couldn't back over the Whitestone Bridge. I finally got a hold of her; it was probably a little before 4:OO.

N. SWEETING 20
She had heard the reports of possibly hundreds of Fire Department rescue workers possibly killed or missing and the whole scenario of the towers falling. I cried. I was crying.
I left two messages on my machine in case she had gotten home. She said, "You sounded terrible. You sounded like a wreck. Your voice was shaking." I was. I was visibly shaking.
I remember asking one of the Port Authority cops what exactly happened, because I didn'tknowthewholemagnitude. Ididn'tknow anything at this point. It was several hours before I heard about the Pentagon and the plane that went down in Pennsylvania.
I didn't realize the towers had come down completely. I thought it was just the area above where the planes had crashed. I didn't realize they had come all the way down. I thought the tops had fallen off. They were like no, they're down completely. I said, "No, no, just above where - - " He's like, "No, I'm telling you, they fell completely."
I didn't hear about the whole other episodes out of town for several hours. Then I

N. SWEETING
startedhearingpeopletellingme. Iheard rumors that the military shot down planes, they had attacked the Pentagon and there were other sites. I didn't really grasp the magnitude of it at that point.
I didn't get out of there until - - I don't know, it was probably close to - - I don't know - - 10, 11:OO that night we kind of got relieved. Then we were back at 4 a.m. I went down there for another 20 hours. I remember being down there again that day. I was exhausted. I spent time in the morgue, which was just a grim, grim detail the first day or two. Very few intact.
I remember while we were there another building fell, like a half a building that had been damaged. I remember everybody running again, just taking off and running. I just said, I'm tired of these buildings falling down on me. I can't run from these things anymore.
Q. Was that still on the first day?
A. That was the second day.
Q. Seven came?
A. Well, seven fell about 5 or 6:OO. I

N. SWEETING 22
was there. I was several blocks away, but I saw the whole thing go down. Again you could see everybody running. But I didn't run because I knew I was far enough away.
But this other building that fell, it was one of the ones damages that was like a fire damaged building that part of it fell the next day.
It was something I'll never forget. The scariest time of my life. I remember after I got up after diving behind that building, I was counting body parts to make sure everything was still with me.
Last night actually - - this is, what, a month, five weeks later - - I go to graduate schoolinManhattan. Schoolhadbeencanceled because of this, and last night, October 16th, was our first night back. It was the first time that I had driven down the West Side Highway since that day. I've been to the site numerous, numerous times, but I always came in from the east side of Manhattan. This was the first time I went down.
It really shook me up because I

N. SWEETING 23
remember - - I started getting these flashes of I remember the towers burning and watching them and saying oh, my God, this is where we were when we were saying things like people are going to die, this is going to be terrible.
I can still see these pictures in my mind of them burning. It really shook me up when I went to class. Then they're not there anymore. It's just like this major hole in New York City down there. It was terrible.
So that's pretty much my story. I consider myself very lucky since I was close. I wasn't right underneath it, but I was close enough to actually be knocked down. At this time I'm thankful I was stuck in traffic, because I was driving a chief and we would have been going to the command post. There are numerous chiefs in the Fire Department that are no longer here.
I've heard stories from chiefs and fellow chiefs aides who were right there that really had very close calls. I wonder where we would have been if I hadn't lost five minutes in traffic on the highway.
It was tough. Since I've been in this

N. SWEETING 24
position, I haven't been on an ambulance since I've been working in the coordinator position, and I'll be in this position for like another
So that's about it. I'm thankful we're
here.
Q. Any final thoughts you want to add? A. I think it was - - even in the total
terror and chaos of the first 45 minutes to an hour, even, prior to the buildings falling, there were just some incredible acts performed by people, not only from EMS, the firefighters, the police officers.
But when the towers came down, the way

N. SWEETING
people came together and just started doing whatever had to be done - - there were people that weren't officers, EMTs and medics, that were stepping up and saying this is what needs to be done. We need to set up something here. Let's just do it. People just talking the initiative on their own. I think it was amazing how it ran.
Unfortunately there weren't a whole lot of people to help, unfortunately. At the first Trade Center in '93, there were a thousand people and we were very stretched. But this time we weren't - - unfortunately there weren't people to help.
But people stepped up. We were just seeing people going above and beyond and people walking around in a dazed look but still doing what had to be done. It was amazing.
In a way I feel fortunate in a way that I was there because I got to see people at their best and do what they're trained to do and do what they're not trained to do and pull it together. That's an experience I'll never forget.
On the other sense, sometimes you hope

N . SWEETING 2 6
you weren't there because the horrors that were experienced will never be forgotten. I had a lot of trouble sleeping for the first couple of days, because I was working an incredible number of hours. I really had trouble sleeping. It was rough, but we're going on.
This has to be rough on you over and
over.
Q. Yeah, it gets a little rough, a little
rough.
A. It was close. I had a doubt at one
point when the second tower came down and when we picked this woman up, especially when we were knocked down on the street. I really had some doubts for a few seconds there. It was scary,
but we got through it.
It's changed me. I'm in graduate
school. I have a little ways to go. I was kind of thinking that I may explore other options, career options. Even just prior to this I was getting a little tired of the EMS field and the job. I've been in this for 15 years with the city now. I was looking, kind of exploring things out there. If the right opportunity

N. SWEETING 27
presented itself, I probably would have stepped up and taken it.
But right now, even after all this, I feel right now I can't leave right now. There's something that's holding me here. I haven't looked at anything since, but it's just I don't feel like I can leave right now. There's something that has to be - - until that pile's cleaned up and these people are found, I don't think it would be right for me to leave. It may not be the best thing for me to stay, but it wouldn't be right for me to leave. So we're going to hang in and stick it out for a while and take it day by day, see where we're going.
I think that's enough.
MS. BASTEDENBECK: The time is now
12:06.
Neil, I thank you very much for your
time. This interview is now concluded.

F i l e No. 9110102
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMS CHIEF FRAN PASCALE
Interview Date: October 17, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins

F. PASCALE
MS. BASTEDENBECK: It's October 17th, 2001. The time is 9:45 a.m. My name is Christine Bastedenbeck with the New York City Fire Department. Today we are conducting an interview with the following individual.
CHIEF PASCALE: FRAN PASCALE, division commander of Division 6, EMS operations.
MS. BASTEDENBECK: Also present for the interview - -
MR. ECCLESTON: Christopher Eccleston of the New York City Fire Department, World Trade Center disaster task force.
Q. Chief, we would just like you to relate
to us the events of the morning of September llth, 2001.
A. Okay. I was in my office, and I was on the telephone. My staff yelled to me from inside of the outer office, indicating that a plane had gone and hit the World Trade Center. They happened to be watching this.
I got up, and I went over to the television. I came back into my office, and I'm not sure if I actually called up citywide or RCC

F. PASCALE
to see if they had any additional information. From there we turned on the radio, and I knew
there was down that
plane hit called up maybe I'd anybody.
quite a few chiefs starting to head way.
Right after that we were told another the World Trade Center. From there I citywide, and they had indicated that better go. They hadn't heard from
What was actually on my mind is one of the things that chief McCracken always stresses, that he didn't want all of the chiefs to respond at one particular incident. Wait to see if somebody calls you, because otherwise a l l the resources are tied up in one location. So that kind of stuck i n my head.
With that I told my staff, "Let's go down into the World Trade Center," especially since citywide hadn't heard from anybody. So I took my staff, and in my head I was already planning that if I go to another sector or part of the division, depending on how they divide up the World Trade Center, I would have a sufficient amount of staff that we wouldn't have to pull

F. PASCALE
from anybody else.
I also told the paramedics to bring
their ALS equipment in case we would need them for triage. Most likely we stocked up the car with not only equipment, I had a lieutenant, I had a light duty person. I figured she could do at least recording or tracking, whatever the need would be. The lieutenant certainly could handle a sector, and I had the ALS coordinator, which he could certainly be used as a paramedic. So that was my plan as I was going down there as additional resources.
Ironically we wound up having a lot of traffic, and we were finding it a hard way getting down into the World Trade Center. Anyway, we finally managed to get onto West Street and it started to move, the traffic.
As we got into the area - - and I guess it was somewhere on West Street, 30th or something like that, you could really see the type of disaster that was going on. My initial thought was I wonder what really was happening down there.
As we hit, it was West and Vesey, there

F. PASCALE 5
was a police officer - - we hadn't even parked the car - - who starts yelling at us, telling us to get out of the way, pull the car and run, the building was coming down. Either he heard a rumbling, whatever. At that moment you could see this big cloud.
We pulled over. It was as we're on Vesey Street we pulled the car to the side. We started to see the debris starting to come down. We really didn't grab any type of equipment. We just figured, well, they know more than we do. We better star running.
At that point - -
Q. Would you just indicate on the map
where you are with a number 1, where you left the vehicle.
A. It was between - - I think it's called West End and West. So it's on Vesey between West and West End. So it's right in between that blockand-- whereisit? It'son--
Q. North End?
A. It's probably, yeah, only a few car lengths,figurehalfwayintoVesey. Somaybe midpoint.

F. PASCALE
Q. Just indicate it with the number 1. A. I would think that's - -
Q. Just an approximation.
A. - - pretty close to it.
We basically got out of the car. We didn't really take anything because by then there was a tremendous amount of debris, and it became engulfed with a black cloud. I did not see where my personnel had ran for cover. It just got very black, very dark. I think probably at that particular moment I was more concerned, thinking of where did they go, because I could not see anything in front of me.
I continued to run up, and I think that's where I ended on West End Street. It was quite a while before I saw anybody. Then all of a sudden as the cloud kind of lightened up a little bit - - I was pretty much covered with the soot and the debris - - I started to see a tremendous amount of ambulances coming my way. That would be actually on West End.
From there what I did is I notified citywide that I had numerous vehicles coming in my direction. At that point I think I was the

F. PASCALE
only voice there because I was standing right on the corner.
What I did is I stopped the vehicles, and by then I saw I think it was Lieutenant Cahill and a few other people that I knew. Some of the ambulances I knew.
So what we decided to do at that moment was to set up a secondary staging. I didn't even knowwheretheoriginalstagingwas. Sowe separated the ALS units from the BLS units and make it very easy to identify should they start calling in the units.
I remember seeing Hazollah. I remember seeing some voluntary units. Definitely there were Fire Department units. I did not see any of my peers at that time. I saw a few other lieutenants. I know there was Lieutenant Cahill. I think I may have seen Captain Stone. I'm not sure. Everybody was pretty much running around a little bit.
We were able to set them or at least guide them on both sides, and what we had automatically did with them is make sure that all of their - - they put some type of face mask on

F. PASCALE
because there was really very dark, but it was clearly up a So we got everybody
heavy -- it was little bit.
to put face masks
on. There were a few patients around. A few people had some minor injuries. We had whatever units were there on site -- whether they were ALS or BLS. We separated them. They were continuing to give some treatment. They actually transported a couple of people from that
location.
Q. Where was that staging area?
A. This was a l l along West End Avenue.
Let me just see where -- this is North End.
Where they actually came from -- they had to come from the north side behind the Merrill Lynch building. I believe that was the one. That's where I saw a l l the units coming from. We had a couple stragglers coming up from Vesey, but most of them were coming from that location.
We were doing fine. I hadn't seen still nobody there. All of a sudden we heard I guess a rumbling of some s o r t . ESU had showed up with their vehicle and stuff and said we have to go before they collapse, get everybody out of the

area.
F. PASCALE
I wasn't sure which way the building was going to fall, so what I did is - - and with some of the EMTs and paramedics that were standing outside with their vehicles, we just told them to get in the vehicles and start moving, just get out of the area.
I ran. I didn't think of taking a vehicle or jumping inside a vehicle. I stood there watching everybody leaving the area. The cloud was worse than actually the first one, I thought. Total darkness, completely darkness, a lot of debris.
I wasn't able to see, and I don't know if it was just the fact that my glasses were so full of soot and everything as well as getting some soot in my eyes. I certainly didn't need anythingmore. Seeingwasdifficultenough.
With that, I remember running, and only later on did I realize I was somewhere around the school. Most of the units left. I did not know, actually, at that point where to take cover. Therewasnobodyelsewithme. Ididn'teven realize I was in the street until I heard

F. PASCALE
something behind me.
When I looked, turned around, I
remember it was one of our vehicles. They were kind of lost. They didn't know where they were traveling, and I just told them keep straight and go very slow, only because we couldn't see anything in front of us. I just reminded this unit - - I think it was the medic unit from Coney Island, and if I saw the fellow, I would know who it was.
Sowespokeacoupleminutes. Itold him to watch whatever's in front of him, because I had no idea if the vehicles had stopped, if there were people just abandoning them, or people were walking in the roadway, like I was walking in the roadway.
If I didn't turn around, he probably could have ran over me. He never saw me, and I never saw him, except he had the lights on and I saw the flashing.
From there I remember a woman coming out of the cloud, and that's the best way of saying. She was coming, up it would have been off Vesey Street. Actually my first initial

F. PASCALE
response was I told her, "What are you doing here? You have to get out of here." I remember her reply, and only then did I realize she had a camera. She turned around and she said, "You don't understand," and she disappeared, just disappeared.
I would not even be able to find out who she was, what she looked like. I know it was a woman. My reaction to her comment was that she must have been media and she wanted to take as much film as she could, because it was a large-size camera, movie camera, that she had.
So it wasn't just somebody just walking around with this. She just disappeared.
Then as the cloud cleared up, I was like in a round circle, and I think that is where the school is.
Q. Stuyvesant High School or the college?
A. I think it was Stuyvesant. It goes around. I wasn't too far from there, and that's where I ended up.
I made my way back, and then I started to see other units kind of coming back. I remember speaking to somebody and asking them if

F. PASCALE 12
they saw any chiefs, anybody around. I think it was CHIEF GOMBO on the air. Somebody had directed me toward the building where there was going to be a triage area.
When I walked in the building, I remember seeing Carrasquillo. There was Gombo there. Who else was there? Lieutenant Cahill was there. I remember seeing Steve Pilla, who is my ALS coordinator, and I couldn't believe that that's where they were, so close but so far away. That was my reaction to them, where were you? I thought something terrible had happened. We didn't know. They didn't have any radios on them.
From what I was told, one group ran in the building and then a couple of my other employees ran into I guess it was a trailer. They all piled up in this trailer. I couldn't even tell you where the trailer was. They said it was close to where I was. I couldn't see a thing.
So I went into the area, and I saw Chief Kowalczyk, I saw CHIEF GOMBO. I asked about Chief McCracken. Nobody had an answer.

F. PASCALE 13
They had said they saw Chief Basile around. I wasn't sure who else was down there. I know Chief Goldfarb was down there. I didn't even know that Chief Villani was down there. A lot of people had responded down there. Until much later on I had no idea actually who went down there.
From there CHIEF GOMBO had requested that the chiefs all gather outside of the building, which I'm not sure the street. It was on the corner of that building --
Q. Stuyvesant i s up over here somewhere.
A. No, Stuyvesant i s where I landed up after trying to beat the cloud, which obviously I didn't. It was on the other side.
Q. The hotel, is that where you came out?
A. No, I don't think it was the hotel. It had a beautiful -- it could have been part of the hotel, come to think of it.
Q. Was it on the water or by the water?
A. Maybe it was Four World Trade Center. It may have been Four World Trade Center. I think they have a large -- I remember taking a look when I got into the building. What do they

F. PASCALE
call it? They had a garden in a dome. Q. An atrium?
A. The atrium and everything. Then I remember somebody gave me some towels so I could wipe my glasses. Just little things I remember.
I went outside, and then CHIEF GOMBO wanted to basically try to get the sectors and whatever else needed to be done, start some kind of a plan.
I remember Chief Carrasquillo and I - - at first he had indicated that I was going to stay down there, but then he had wanted me to go up to Chelsea Street. He had asked me where my car was, and I told him - - I said, "It's parked, but I couldn't tell you the condition of the car right now."
He had asked me to take somebody with me, preferably a supervisor. I remember asking for Captain Pinkus. He was there, so the first
person I saw. He had asked me if there was a way if he could possibly grab some type of vehicle or whatever and get up to Chelsea.
Believe it or not, I guess at that point I had no idea where Chelsea was. I

F. PASCALE
couldn't even think of how far are we from Chelsea. I'm thinking of everything was in such a small area. I would have never thought Chelsea being considerably different, you know, pretty far away. That was off on 17th.
So we looked at each other. We asked where this pier was, and Captain Pinkus and I - - and I couldn't tell you where we grabbed this unit, who this unit was. It was volunteers. We just told them, "We need your vehicle. Take us to Chelsea location."
I don't even know how far you want me to go into this.
Q. Just go a couple hours past.
A. Okay. This particular crew was ironic. They looked at me; I looked at them. They said, "No, we can't take you." I said, "There's not going to be any questions. You're going to take me, and that's the bottom line."
Between the two of us, the way we looked and the captain turned around and said, "You don't realize, this is a chief. Just listen to what she says. Otherwise she's going to take the whole entire vehicle." This poor crew, I

F. PASCALE 16
couldn't begin to tell you who they were, but I remember they had no stretcher. It was a half-equipped vehicle.
It was so funny, we finally managed to get into West Street again, trying to go up to the West Side Highway. As we were traveling - - it wasn't even West Side Highway. I don't even remember what street we were traveling on. We couldn't get down to the west side. We had to take a detour.
As we were traveling, there was a group of people who actually flagged us down. They said that we had a pedestrian struck. We're looking at each other. We're saying, well, this is good, there's no equipment, no stretcher, no long board, nothing in the vehicle. We better think quickly how we're going to lift up this patient.
Pinkus and I jumped out of the vehicle. The male was actually laying on his stomach. I rolled him over. We opened up his airway. We were able to get a pulse. It turned out that he wasn't actually a pedestrian struck. It was medical-related. Later on I understand that it

F. PASCALE
was cardiac-related.
So we rolled him over. I told the
crew - - we did have oxygen. The crew brought oxygen. I attempted to put an OPA in him. He gagged, so that was a good sign for me. There was a couple of us who were able to lift him up, and we were able to put the man on a stretcher. We told the crew take him to the hospital. This was a situation we certainly didn't expect.
From there we jumped out of the vehicle. I'm not sure how far we were. It seemed like we were miles away, because I couldn't even tell you where we were flagged on this. Maybe it was even Broadway. It was a major roadway.
With that we were trying to stop other vehicles, because we had no vehicles. I mean, it was the craziest situation. Any other time you would say, well, I'll grab another command.
There was no such thing of grabbing anything.
You had to use your common sense.
So with that we went over to - - there was a group of construction workers, and I asked them if we could have a lift from the

F. PASCALE 18
construction offices. At that point there was no supervisor, and their truck -- we were going to hop in the construction truck. It doesn't make a difference at that point. Their truck was kind of jammed up with all sorts of material. They were actually constructing at a site there.
We ran in the street, and we tried to stop a vehicle. I remember getting very angry a t this particular vehicle because it happened to
be -- and I'm not sure, but it was definitely either a private contractor or one of their non-911 transport unit.
I remember looking at their name, and I said if I could catch their number, I better not see them again, because they just blew the light. They just kept on going. That really ticked me off, in plain English.
Some of the construction workers came over, and they said, "What could we do?" I said, "Whatever vehicle it looks like you could put two more people on for one stop, and they're going to take us to where we need to go."
Ironically we stopped a vehicle, and I don't even remember the type of vehicle we hopped

F. PASCALE
in, but we got our lift up to
then Kowalczyk was already up
just thinking about it, I may
Chief Kowalczyk at that initial briefing, because he was already up there. He was actually in charge of the Chelsea location. Actually Chief Gombo wanted me to assist Chief Kowalczyk with the staging up there.
I remember us jumping out of the vehicle and we walked over there. We then got word that they wanted Chief Kowalczyk back down to the site. I remember talking to Chief Kowalczyk.
lot of people reacted differently during different times.
had offered to go back down there at that point. It really didn't make a difference where I was going to be. I stayed in the Chelsea area, and I basically tried to continue what he started. I remember there must have been about 75 vehicles lined up on the West Side Highway. So we were trying to organize that.
Chelsea Street. By there. Truthfully not even have seen
19

F. PASCALE 20
With that, I remember two bus loads of doctors jumping out of the vehicles and saying, "We're here to help. We want to go downtown." Basically I didn't want them to go down there. It was dangerous enough to start off with, but I think we needed to - - if we were going to use these medical personnel, we needed to use them the way they should have been, call them in, set them up.
When I saw all these bus loads of doctors, they had just finished a convention. I remember that very clearly. They were at a convention, so the whole entire convention closed down. These were surgical doctors, medical doctors and everything. They had asked, "What can we do in the interim?"
With that I remember Dr. Asada showing up and Dr. Neal Richmond. I had to let them know we had a lot of doctors; what could we do. Also, I wouldn't say this, but to keep them occupied.
I just didn't think it was good to get too many people in an area that was really dangerous.
If I would have sent them down there and anything would have happened, I think that

F. PASCALE 21
would have bothered me. It was bad enough to control your own people that were down there. So we decided that the best thing to do - - and really it was a very good idea, although it wasn't used.
We went into the pier, and I spoke to basically the director of the pier, Pier 36. I could be wrong on the pier number, but I think it was Pier 36.
We got permission to utilize the whole entire pier, and we had a lot of resources which we really would have been very beneficial should the situation turn out other than having so many fatalities as opposed to the wounded.
I remember '93 because I was down at the World Trade Center in '93. We had more injuries as opposed to fatalities. So it was a bit different. We didn't know what was going on as far as fatalities down there.
So what we did is we got permission to open it up, and we set up probably an
unbelievable hospital. We set up an area for familymembers. Shouldtheneedariseifthe hospitals were inundated, that was going to be an

F. PASCALE
off-site hospital. It would have saved our resources as well as definitely it would have saved the resources from the hospital.
These doctors were very good. Where they got their stuff is beyond me. But if you walked in there -- it took them several hours to set up, but they had every type of surgical, plastic surgeons, medical; you name it, they were there.
We had a meeting with them, and we broke them up i n t o teams. The teams were comprised of their professional -- what they were --
Q. Specialties?
A. Thank you. I couldn't find the word. Their specialty.
Then what we did is we assigned a team leader, and the team leader was either whatever EMT or paramedic we had, anybody who was very familiar with triage, we went over triage with them. They all got their little packet, and with the team leaders we were able to keep track of everybody who was at least in that place.
Probably we wound up with 125 doctors and nurses

F. PASCALE
from all the hospitals.
We probably a t any given time had 75 t o
100 ambulances showing up. We finally got a trailer to have it like a command post and we
were able initially
to get that set up. That was all -- that was several hours.
From there I think it must have been I don't know -- 4 or 5; it was still
around --
very light and everything -- I got a message to report back downtown. They were going t o have a meeting. I don't know how I got back downtown, but I was a little bit more resourceful. There were a lot of Fire Department vehicles over there. I think it was a command car. They took me down there.
I was able to get down there. I left Pinkus there. There were a tremendous amount of people. There were people that were constantly showing up over there. We were trying to really manage the unit. They were a l l over the place.
We had actually asked the police, because we were trying to stop the units from all the areas, as well as our own, just bypassing and heading down to West Street, because everybody

F. PASCALE 24
wanted to be there. It's understandable, but it wasn't something that really should be. If we needed them, then they go down there. There was accountability of the people.
The only reason I kept this in my head
i s because when I was traveling down t o West Street and after the first building collapsed, I really thought that a lot of chiefs may have been lost. To me it seemed like a very long time before I made any contact with anybody else.
That really -- like, who was down there? Did we
l o s e anybody?
Not to jump back and forth, but I remember people saying, "We don't know where this chief is. We may have lost that chief." It was like you didn't know. You really didn't know.
So you were really kind of working in a blind there, so to speak.
So I guess when I got up to Chelsea that kind of stuck in my head and really stuck in my head to watch the people, because I lost my own personnel for a brief period of time, and they just ran in different directions. That's
it. They just ran in different directions.

F. PASCALE 25
If we would have ran up to West Street or if we were there probably - - and this is probably one of our major discussions that my staff and I constantly have since this World Trade Center was if we got there another five minutes earlier, maybe even less, we would have been going to the command post. There's no ifs and buts about it. Maybe not even five minutes. We were right there on the corner. We happened to be in the car.
Not that we joke about it, but maybe in the sense of releasing one's feelings about it, we would say, well, we're glad that it was Neal that did the driving as opposed to somebody else, because we would have gotten there much quicker.
So these are just things to me it's kind of good to talk to the personnel. You sometimes need a little sense of a break or a little - - not that it's a joke or anything like that, but it's kind of a release and it lets everybody think a little bit more and release it out a little bit more, because I think everybody was kind of taken back.
Everybody wants to be very brave and

F. PASCALE
very tough. That's all well and good on the outside, but it's really the inside that you have to worry about.
So anyway, with the request for me to respond back down to the command post, I finally got down there and I remember seeing Chief McCracken. Probably during that whole period of time, "Did anybody see him?" Everybody kept on saying, "We don't know where he is." So when I saw him it was like, wow, you're okay. We kind of hugged each other.
Then I saw Charlie Wells, and I didn't even know the type of personal disaster that he was going through, we were all kind of war-like hugging a little bit and grabbing on each hand and support amongst managers, I guess you would want to say. I remember finally seeing Chief Villani, you start seeing other people.
So we were down there and we were talking, and they wanted to go over another plan to see what was going on and who was going to do what. Already it had to be fairly - - between 5:OO. All of a sudden for some reason people started to run again.

F. PASCALE
I was there, and I remember Chief
Fellini looking at me, and he get out of here real quick." the world whatever came down.
Q. Number seven.
A. Came down. We were
overpass, and I said, to myself, "Boy, these people run awful fast. I'm still here." I remember saying that. Oh, my goodness. I remember Fellini opening up the door, jumping in the car, grabbing onto me and pulling me literally into his car.
I remember another supervisor of mine, which was Lieutenant Haugh, coming up from i n front of me, like, and we grabbed him and we told him, "Get in the vehicle." There was one more person in that vehicle, and I think it was Chief Butler.
Chief Butler and Haugh jumped in the back of the vehicle, and myself and Chief Fellini was in the front. He just hopped over his seat. He didn't care, and I just hopped right in there. We closed up the windows and doors.
I said to myself, oh, my God, I don't
said, "We've got to I guess that's when
standing in the

F. PASCALE 28
believe it. It's scary. It wasn't as bad this trip, but it was three times. I said I just hope the fourth doesn't come down. You know what they say, you know - - my husband always says three strikes and you're out.
That cleared at some point, and all of a sudden everybody just kind of walked back. It was the strangest feeling, like where did you just go? They were all jumping. I was just telling them, I can't do all this running. My knees are killing me. You just left me. First my staff ran away from me, and then you guys ran away from me.
It was so funny, and I don't think I thought at that point that we were in a
predicament either. I don't know why I didn't think it. But what brought it to my attention is I had seen Chief Fellini the following day in which I was assigned to the operations where Chief Cruthers was there - - I have to really look at that map to see where I really was. It was right by the Manhattan College.
Q. That's Chambers and West.
A. I think it was maybe one block down.

F. PASCALE 29
Q. Not exactly at the corner, but that's where.
A. It was somewhere around that area when the other building came down. I remember seeing Chief Fellini because when I was assigned to another job the following day, maybe two other jobs the following day, and there I went to the operations where - - it was the pile; it was ground zero.
I remember Chief Fellini turning around and he said, "You know, for a minute I thought that you all bit the dust." I looked at him, I said, "You know, I never even thought how precarious we were in again." I don't know why. I could not begin to tell you.
I don't know if you could say it was emotional at the time. I can't really tell you. I can only speak for myself to the point that I think it was - - you could not really grasp at first the significance, the catastrophic situation.
It took me a while, I think, and only really until after our first meeting with Chief Gombo did I really think about this as being a

F. PASCALE 30
terrorist act. I don't know why. Maybe you kind of block it out of your head. I can't really begin to tell you.
I just didn't digest that until they were saying that and somebody was talking about the Pentagon and everything. That just kind of took my breath away, a little bit, I think. God Almighty, this is unbelievable.
Also at that point I did not realize how many people we lost. As I was listening to everyone, it was a devastating feeling, a hollow feeling, I guess, maybe a numb feeling that some of these wonderful chiefs that I got to know - - I just couldn't believe they were not there.
(Pause.)
A. ThenIstartedtohear--Iwasvery
concerned with some of the people when I was told that there was a lot of ambulances, a lot of people injured. I started to hear a couple of my own people - - I lost three vehicles myself. You couldn't help, how did those people get in there so fast. I want to beat them up. I did.
I don't know. They must have been on heavy duty speed mode, because I could not

F. PASCALE 31
believe -- I mean, here you have what I had heard some of the people were missing. I could not believe somebody from Montefiore could have gotten down there so quickly.
I had heard two of my employees were somewhat injured. They were sent over to New Jersey. We didn't know their status. I knew they weren't critical or anything like that. I knew two more of my employees at that time getting injured.
I guess then the division mode took over, because I wanted to know how many of my people were actually involved. I said, gee, i f they can make it from the Bronx, I know my Harlem people must be down there too. These are things that probably go really kind of search your mind a little bit.
Again, a lot of this really -- as you really start talking about the people that were being lost, who was definitely lost really was -- there's really no words for it. There really and truly are no words for it.
I would like to add that he was a great guy. He was the most cordial individual, funny.

F. PASCALE 32
He was always happy. It was good, because, you know, when you did the merge and everything you said i t ' s good to have a relationship with these people. It was really very important.
He was a wonderful person to me. And I say that only on the EMS side. I'm sure you have your own wonderful words for him on the fire
side. But just to know him of how he was with us was really important.
I could not believe Deputy Commissioner Feehan, I could not. And the Father, I think he was - - Father Judge. My response i s how could these people have been in that building at the time. You just could not put it in proper perspective, losing these people. They announce the names, and people are being told that day.
I guess it was just very hard -- you took it in. You just kind of took it in. You walked around very strong, tough, whatever you want to say, because I guess it's the -- through the years what you need to learn, especially when you become any level, you need to be strong for your people. We kind of a l l earned that one way or the other, so when you go home you're somewhat

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different.
That was the first day, the day I
certainly really would prefer not to remember. But a l o t of good people were saved, and we can only be thankful for that. That's the way it goes. Hopefully it never happens again.
Q. Is there anything else you want to add to the events?
A. Prior to --
Q. Prior to the second collapse.
A. It's hard to say -- well, no, it's not
hard to say. It was the most disorganized feeling I ever felt. I could say that there was no sense of being organized. It was an impossible thing to be organized. But even though you were tempted at certain points to try to get yourself up and running -- and they talk about we've always learned through the years, EMS, well, I guess we could throw that in the garbage that day. It just didn't work. It just didn't work.
Just the biggest thing is you did not know -- people were just coming in. People were coming in. People coming in. You didn't know

F. PASCALE 34
where they were coming from. People that did not have uniforms. People you thought were on light duty wound up down there.
You just did not have the control for quite some time. Certainly I don't think it was within the initial 24 hours because so many people just kept on showing up. It was like everything else, people had to be down there. That was something people had to do.
It didn't matter if you were in the Fire Department or EMS, you were a volunteer, PD, whatever, just the strangers we had a tendency to bump into like just going up and down. But probably one of the most memorable - -
MS. BASTEDENBECK: This is side two of the interview with Chief FRAN PASCALE.
A. Just a last note, I think probably one
of the memorable times that I remember going up and down West Street, if you want to call it going up and down, was probably the people lined up supporting everybody. I think that was so important, and it was for everyone. I think that was really good for our own people. They have a tendency to think they're not appreciated. For

F. PASCALE
whatever reason, they truly feel that.
I remember speaking to the people when
I was leaving there to go back to Chelsea. From Chelsea I wanted to go back and pick up the rest of my people. This is late in the evening. I remember just listening to people talk. And these were our units. These are supervisors, not chiefs, supervisors, looking at this and digesting all of this and saying, gee, we are appreciated.
It was really very good at that time to give them support, but the support was coming from civilians. You're not always thanked on the civilian level. These people were showing up with flags, clapping; signs, "We love you." It was so supportive. That went on for the longest time, into the wee hours, every day, every night.
I remember up to only maybe two weeks ago going down West Street and there was still a couple of people standing there, all by themselves, with their signs. Sometimes a lot of good comes out of some times that may be very bad.
This was really very good emotionally

F. PASCALE 36
for the people who were up there, and that just wasn't our people; it was a lot of different people. PD was up there, doctors were up there. A lot of people were up there. There were firefighters up there.
It was important to give them that boost, that energy, and that's what it was. It gave them that energy to go back down there and do something that nobody really ever thought they would have to do and dig out their own and try to find people alive. That helped people. It gave them that energy to do it, because they knew whatever the end result was they were going to be appreciated. That was even the first night.
So I kind of remembered that, and when
I went home I told my husband, "You just won't believe it. People just came out." I don't know where people came from. The west side is not that populated. They did.
That was really very important, and it was very important emotionally for a lot of people who saw it and for people who were going down to the hot area, as they traveled the west side, was the biggest roadway that everybody used

F. PASCALE
to get down to the site.
So it was everybody going down there
who I think felt the importance of their job and that people appreciated what they were doing. How bad it was, they appreciated you no matter what.
That was just one thing I wanted to add, how the public I think boosted up morale.
That's about it.
Q. Thank you very much, Chief. A. You're welcome.
MS. BASTEDENBECK: This interview is concluding at 1038 hours.

File No. 91 10103
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
PARAMEDIC LOUIS COOK
Interview Date: October 17, 200 1
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins

L. COOK 2
MS. BASTEDENBECK: Today is October 17th, 2001. The time now is 721 hours a.m. my name is Christine Bastedenbeck. I work
for the New York City Fire Department. This morning I'm doing an interview with --
PARAMEDIC COOK: Paramedic Louis Cook, Division 2, ALS coordinator.
MS. BASTEDENBECK: Also present for this interview is --
MR.ECCLESTON: ChristopherEccleston of the New York City Fire Department, World Trade Center task force.
Q. Louie, we'd just like to ask you to
give us your account of the morning of September 1lth, 2001.
A. That day I started my tour at 6 a.m. I
was in my office with Chief Basile, when he came out and announced that a plane had struck the World Trade Center. He got this information over his beeper. We all kind of just shrugged our shoulders and thought very little of it. Put on
the news, the TV, to see whatever news station was on and saw the north tower burning.
We looked at each other and decided

L. COOK 3
that since this looks like it was going to be a
big job, we loaded up our equipment into the car and we started responding to the location.
We went through Queens into Manhattan
and down the FDR Drive to the World Trade Center. We parked the vehicle somewhere around West Street, I'm thinking between Albany and Cedar.
Q. Can you just mark that with a number 1 on the map?
A. Sure. I'm pretty sure it was like
right around there where we had parked the car.
I do remember seeing Chief Carrasquillo with his aide in front of us parking. I remember seeing Chief Hirth and his aide, and I remember seeingRogerMooreofoperationsthere. They were in the car together.
Q. When you responded with Chief Basile, who else was with you?
A. Just the chief and I. We were alone. We parked the car, geared up, took our
equipment and started towards what was the -- from what I understand to be the initial interagency command post. It was across the street on West Street in front of I believe -- it

L. COOK 4
was like between one and two number World Trade, give or take. You had a very good view of number one. We saw number two and number three, actually.
We walked up West Street northbound to get to the command post, and there I remember looking to my right and seeing an aircraft landing gear tire. I remember we were walking up, we were zigzagging through bodies and body parts. I just remember the smell of it being
like a butcher shop with all the bodies around.
I remember smelling that distinctly.
I remember Basile turning around, looking at me, and just telling me, "Louis, don't look around. Just let's get to where we've got to go."
So we got to the command post, and I
saw Chief Kowalczyk, who was -- I believe he was the major response chief for the evening, and
some other EMS chiefs. I don't recall who was there. I can't remember the faces right now. I
do remember him distinctly telling -- stating to
us before we even got within ten feet of the command post and saying, "Jimmy take tower one."

L. COOK 5
So we just immediately turned around and started walking across West Street to tower one. I remember a lot of debris falling from the southwest side, a lot of fire coming down, a lot of parts, a lot of debris and some bodies, some body parts.
We went into the lobby to establish a
forward command in the lobby command post. I remember running into Chief Pfeifer, the 1st Battalion chief from the Fire Department. I remember seeing him. We got to the command post, and we started to formulate matching plans. It
was another fire chief, a deputy. There was a
Port Authority police officer of higher rank in a white shirt, a sergeant. There was a New York
City police officer there, I believe a sergeant.
We all decided what was going to happen.
Chief Basile asked me to find another
egress out of number One World Trade Center. He wanted me to find a safe way if I could get civilians out and aided out if there was a way,
even if it was covered, would be perfect.
I went to the Port Authority sergeant and I asked him -- I needed a cop who was

L. COOK 6
familiar with number one. He tapped some cop and told him, "Go with him and take him where he needs to go."
I was going around in the lobby, and I
was making a circle of the lobby. I wanted to see exactly what entrances and egresses were in the lobby area. I was going to go up to the mezzanine, and at some point I saw another elevated portion of stairs that went up to a landing and looked like it went over West Street.
I asked the police officer where does
this go, and he told me this was the north bridge to World Financial Center. It's covered and it goes over West Street, comes out to number one, and you can get out through number one to Vesey
Street. That's this north bridge right here, pedestrian bridge.
Thinking that since this was covered
and away from the side where debris was falling, I figured it best I should investigate this being
a safer area to get people out of. It just
seemed like a good idea at the time.
I made it up onto the -- I guess you
call it the concourse level, the mezzanine level,

L. COOK
and onto the foot bridge when I started to hear -- I thought I heard an explosion of some sort, but I kind of dismissed it. I figured, ah, it's just something burning upstairs. I really didn't think of what was going on.
Okay. I start going across this pedestrian bridge. I'm the only one on this bridge. I'm walking across it, and then I just remember feeling a rumble and hearing this rumbling sound that was really intense. It actually shook my bones.
I turned around to look for the cop,
and the cop was gone. I don't know where the
hell he went. I didn't know which way to go. I knew number one was on fire. I didn't know which way to go because I thought now the facade or something from number one was coming down, feeling that this rumble was going on.
So I ran. I started to run across the pedestrian bridge, and I got about halfway there when a lot of major debris was hitting the ground, really hitting the ground. You can feel it -- it shook your bones, the things hitting the ground, the rumbling. It was extremely loud.

L. COOK 8 Iremembereverythingwentblack. All
the windows -- because there are windows on both sides of this walkway -- started to implode in on me, and ceiling tiles -- they had beautiful ceilingtilesinthisthing. Ithinktheywere mosaics whatever. They just started falling on
top of me.
I made it to about halfway, and I
couldn't run anymore because of all of this stuff hitting. I decided just to lay against the
column and just hold on, because there was nowhere else to go.
It was black. I had some stuff coming
in the window, some debris coming in the window on me, and I just waited there until it all
stopped, which it felt like forever. Once it all stopped, you couldn't breathe because all the
dust. There was just an incredible amount of
dust and smoke. It seemed to linger. It didn't seem to settle. It just stayed that way.
When the rumbling stopped, I got up, got out from all the junk, and I started walking -- I kept going across the bridge. I couldn't see, so I hugged the wall that I was

L. COOK
next to and I just kept walking and I just kept myhandonthewallsoIknewwhereIwas. Iwas trying to feel in front of me to make sure
nothing was going to be collapsing and there were no holes or voids to fall in.
I kept going straight. I got to the
end where World Financial Center is, and everything was locked. The windows were still intact. The doors -- the security bolts were intact. So it was locked. I was kind of trapped in there.
I turned around. I can start seeing a little bit now. I decided, well, I could see a little bit down the hall and I'm going to have to go back now because I can't go out this way. I have nothing to break these windows out with.
As I went, I came across this painter's stuff, a cart and it looks like they were setting up to do some paint work or something. I found some painter's rags. I put the rag to my face. They had a jug like a gallon jug of water. I picked that up. I hosed my face off, and I gargled and spit. I took the jug with me, and I started walking back down.

L. COOK 10
Really I had nowhere to go. I got back
to number one, where I met Chief Pfeifer and his aide. I remember that distinctly, because I know Chief Pfeifer's brother. They look very similar.
Q. At this time did you know where Chief Basile was?
A. No. I was totally away from him. My radio was the fire portable, and for a while it was quiet and then there was a lot of transmissions of maydays. I didn't want to come up on a mayday because I didn't feel I was trapped. I didn't want to interfere with somebody else getting rescued, so I didn't want to come up on the radio.
I didn't know where he was. I had no
idea what had gone on. I just knew some -- there was a structural collapse of some sort. I had no idea of what was down, where it was.
I got probably halfway back again to
where I originally had to stop, give or take -- I don't know, back between the two. I caught Chief Pfeifer and his aide. I gave him the jug of
water, his aide, because he was covered in white powder. He wiped and gargled and rinsed off his

L. COOK
face.
I think I asked Chief Pfeifer what
happened to the command post, where is everybody, and he didn't have an answer. So I turned around and I just tagged on with him because for no
other reason than there's safety in numbers, I
guess.
We turned around, went back to World
Financial. I think the aide had some kind of
tool with him. He either had a Halligan or he had an officer's tool or something, and he broke the window out of one of the doors. We got into the lobby.
On the side of the lobby, there were
two escape stairs that had a panic button door at the bottom. The dust was really heavy in there because it was below us and it was more concentrated than was up by us.
So he broke it out, and I didn't know
where else to go so we went out underneath the pedestrian bridge where you could see number two had been totally down. You could just see it.
You walked out into this sea of paper and debris and dust that was like to me -- I'm a short guy.

L. COOK 12
It was almost up to my knees. I was kicking this
stuff. I just remember looking and seeing number two and, holy shit, look at this. I had no idea why number two collapsed.
I asked Chief Pfeifer, "Do you know
what happened to the command post?" He looked at me. He got up on his radio. I guess there was another fire command post set up. He reported in his position, and he reported he was with me. He didn't know how to report me. He said, "Who are you?" I said, "I'm 62 alpha," and he reported
that to the fire command post over his radio.
I don't know where he went. We stood
up, because I started heading into number one back across West Street. It was like all this
debris and all this stuff. I really had to
reorient myself now because I kind of knew where I was but I couldn't tell where I was because nothing looked really the same. Geographically I had an idea where I was, but nothing looked
right.
So I waited a little while. I was
making my way into number one again, and there was a problem getting into number one where we

L. COOK 13
went through, because debris had come down across that side.
I remember seeing two civilians on an
EMS stretcher and some EMS equipment. The guy ran up and looked at me and said, "Where do you want me to put this stuffl" I looked at him.
I'm like, "Right here. There's nothing to do
with this." The guy was like, "Oh, I don't know what to do." I was like, "There's nothing to do. Just don't go in the collapse zone. Just go back
that way." I pointed him north up West Street.
Theywereoutofmasks. Theycouldn't findmasks. Theywereriflinginthetechbag. So I gave them my shears and cut the stretcher sheet for masks and then they took off.
I made it to one. I couldn't get back
into one. I started and went around number one, because I didn't know which way to get in now. I went towards the collapse zone, because I figured, seeing what it was and even though it was down -- this sounds off the wall. I would
try to find another way to get into one to get to Basile. I'm not going to raise him on this radio because he has EMS portable, I have the fire

L. COOK portable.
I'm trying to get in, I'm trying to get
back, and people are running up to me. They see the blue shirt. They're looking for direction, EMTs, guys I never saw before. They wanted direction. My response to them was not to go into the collapse zone. I told everybody that I encountered. They're running up with all kinds of equipment and junk and SAEDs.
Go back to Vesey and West and wait on orders. Don't go into the collapse zone. I don'tknowwhat'sgoingonoverthere. Justwait there so I know where you are. We'll get everybody there. These guys just -- I don't know where they went after that.
I was trying to get back into one. I'm somewhere in between one and two, and I start feeling that rumble again, start hearing the noise. I didn't look up. I figured I've been through this once. I know what's coming now.
I started running north on West Street.
Stuff just kept hitting it seemed like right
behind me. I got to past where I was. Somewhere along I passed one of the tactical trucks from

L. COOK 15
the fire side, tac 1 or 2. I remember seeing a
guys shoes there. I kept running past everything. I remember not seeing a lot of people. It felt like I was alone.
I was running, and stuff was coming
down. This time fire was coming down, because I could feel the heat. I grabbed a firefighter's turnout coat that just seemed to be in front of
me. I grabbed it. I threw it over my shoulders.
I didn't make it much further than that. I ended
up diving down next to some kind of truck. I think it was an ambulance, a van ambulance, of somebody's.
I just waited there. I just covered
up. This stuff was really hitting the ground.
The heavy stuff was really hitting the ground.
It was somewhere -- it was shy of Vesey. It really wasn't very far. I didn't make it to the corner. I just waited there for everything to
stop. It was really hot, because this time there was fire. I know that because my neck burned. I wasjust waiting.
I just laid there. I didn't hear anybody else. I didn't hear anything else. I

L. COOK 16
just laid there and tried to figure out where the
hell I was going to go. I thought I was going to die. Once everything stopped and kind of settled, it was quiet.
I knew I was facing Vesey Street, and I didn't know which way to go. I just stayed there. I couldn't breathe. I'm breathing in my shirt. I didn't know where to go. I start -- laying there, I'm not dead. It's all quiet. So
I figured, all right, now you've got to find a way out of here because you're going to suffocate.
So I start crawling -- because I can't
see, I start crawling and doing one of these, sweeps in front of me so I don't hit anything. Somebody yells, "Is there anybody out there?" I was like, "Yeah. It's Cook." I yelled out,
"It's Paramedic Cook." The response was, "Yeah, this is Chief' -- McCarthy or McNally. I want to sayMcNally. McCarthy.
So I yelled, "Just keep yelling. I'll
find you." He started just calling back and forth his name. I remember crawling up to him, and I think I grabbed his arm. I grabbed him by

L. COOK 17
the arm. He reached out and grabbed me. We
latched onto each other's arms. We were crawling, and we stood up.
He said to me, "All right. As long as
we make it to the water, we'll be all right." I was like, okay. I had an idea where the water is. You still can't see it because it's dark as
a mother. You can't breathe. It's so heavy with smoke and dust and ash.
I can't breathe. I have, for lack of a better term, dust impaction in my ears, in my nose. I was coughing it out of my mouth. It felt like I had a baseball in my mouth. I was just picking it out with my fingers.
I get up. We start going. We make it
to about -- on Vesey Street. I'm looking at the
map now, and I see number Three World Financial, the American Express. We got past there. On the north side of the street there's a bunch of
shops. Here I just kind of fell across the wall where it was clear out and waited.
Somebody ran up -- I don't know.
Somebody had water, pitchers of water. They came up. They splashed us with it in the face. I

L. COOK 18
remember coughing. He was coughing. I remember it was so bad I was coughing, I threw up
everything out of my throat.
I got up, and I didn't see anybody I
knew. I went back towards the collapse zone, past the AMEX building. There were a bunch of EMS people there. I remember they were all standing there with their helmets on: our guys, LenoxHillguys,abunchofotherpeople. They were setting up some kind of triage area.
I remember a crew was loading up a stretcher with equipment. I walked up to them to find out who they were, where they were going. They looked at me, and they were going to start to treat me as a patient. I'm like, "Listen,
don't bother with me. I'm ambulatory and fine. There's nothing you can do for me."
Theguysareallgearingup. They're loading these stretchers up with everything, with life-packs, some SAEDs, suction units, and they started marching into the collapse zone. I had
to grab one guy. The kid was brand-new. Everything was brand-new.
I said, "Are you out of your mind?

L. COOK 19 Stay right here. Don't go into that fucking
collapse zone. You don't know what's going on. I know we've lost a building. I don't know what's going on. I know there's fire over there. It's real dangerous. You cannot go there. Stay here."
One of the guys turned around and said tome--hewasamedic. Heknewmyname. I think it was Raoul Perez. He said to me, "Louie, you don't understand. We've got to go in there. Our people are dying in there." I turned around, and I remember saying to him, "You're out of your fucking mind. Everyone's dead who was over there. It's unsafe. I don't know where to send
you guys or what to do for you guys. Don't go there. "
They all just kind of blew me off and saidtheywereformulatingaplan. SoItold
them, "If you're going to send somebody, two guys go with a tech bag and that's it. One guy stand
by the corner to watch them and you guys stay here. Don't go past the line of sight. If
you're going to go and just go forward to see if there's anybody immediately right there."

L. COOK 20 They all kind of thought that was a
better idea, and they left it at that. I left
Raoul, who seemed to be taking kind of charge, one of the medics.
I went back to the collapse looking for Basile. I thought he was dead, because I didn't know where he was and he didn't come up on the radio. I tried to find him. I went back towards number one. There's nothing left of number one. There was nothing left of number two. I didn't see anybody else I knew.
I got back to one. I just looked at --
I just remember looking at both of them, and I thought -- I saw how bad it was and I was like, there's no way they got out of that frigging collapse. There'snowaytheygetout.
So I walked out and tried to see if there's anything standing that I could get into to see if I could find him. There's nobody there. I came back around to find those guys, the medics and the EMTs that I left.
I ran into Mark Stone. Mark looked at me. I didn't know what to do for myself. He came over and gave me a big hug. He started

L. COOK 21
calling somebody, I think. He started washing my face off again.
Then I saw Richie Zarillo, the guy
who's (inaudible). He looked at me and as he's walked around of the building and he had his helmet on and he looked at me and -- I don't know what he saw, but his face dropped. I just remember seeing his eyes light up and his jaw
fall when he saw me. He's like oh, my God. He was like totally, unbelievably upset. He was
like, "Are you all right, what happened, oh, my God."
Then he asked about Basile. I said I don't know. I don't know where the hell he is. He was in one, we got separated, I went back, I can't find a way to get to him. He was like, "All right. Just stay here." He gave me a bottle of water or some shit, something in his pocket. I just remember rinsing my mouth and spitting and just living with that for a few minutes, sitting against the wall.
I remember seeing -- at that point I
think I saw Sal Sangeniti, Pete Carrasquillo's aide now. He was leaning against the wall, and

I
said, "Are you all right?" He's like, "Well, I just ran my ass
off and whatever."
He said to me -- he looked at me --
"(Inaudible) and I'm having some chest pains." So I'm thinking to myself, oh, great, this guy's going to have an MI here, fuck. I said, "Sal, what do you want? Come on? I started telling him. Come on. W-e'll get you help. We'll get you taken care of." He said, "No,just leave me alone." He's like, "It will pass. I just want
L. COOK 22
to be left alone."
-So I just stayed with him for a while
and didn't say anything. I don't remember talking about anything. We just kind of stood there and looked.
He said something funny about leaving to be something ridiculous like, I don't know,
opening a deli or something silly. I kind of chuckled at that.

L. COOK 23
Q. I can picture Sal. I can picture him
so vividly.
A. I had to chuckle at that, because I'm
like you know, you're right.
Richie turned around. He stayed with
me. He won't let me alone. He won't leave me go. He's standing next to me. Mark Stone I think went off, because I remember saying the MERV is close by because I thought I heard the generator, but I'm not sure.
I remember a few minutes later Richie's face -- he turned around and looked at me and he said, "Oh, there you are." I turned around. It was Basile. We hugged each other. I was gratefbl that he was there. He looked at me and wanted to know if I was all right. He hugged me. He said, "I thought you were dead." I told him, "I thought you were dead too." After that we didn't say much more.
We kind of got back to work. We
brushed ourselves off, went into this hotel up on North End Avenue. There was a triage set-up goingonupthere. Therewerepeoplegetting triaged and treated, things going on. EMS chiefs

L. COOK 24
started to filter in. I remember seeing Gombo.
I remember seeing Pascale. I remember seeing Pete Carrasquillo. I was happy to see Pete.
I remember washing myself off in this decorative fountain in the lobby. I was very, I guess, from fiberglass or whatever because I wasn'tcharburned;Iwasred. SoIjustwashed myself off, dunked my face and my head.
We went into this conference room or towards the conference room, and we stopped in the hall. We had to formulate a plan what to do. I just remember the discussion. I know probably it wasn't my place, but I don't care. I threw in my two cents with things that were being said.
The idea that I thought was very good was creating two casualty collection points and not doing anything at the site, because there's really nothing for our people to do right in the pit. They're not trained to handle this, let
them stay on the periphery and let's have some outer collection sites for people.
So Basile gets told by Gombo to set up
at the south ferry, and we just kind of take our stuff and we started walking out of the hotel and

L. COOK 25
we start walking from North End Avenue. We
looked. From where we are you can kind of see the pit and you can see the debris and everything going on.
He looked at me and said, "Louis, there's no way we're going to make it to the
southferryfromherewalking. It'sgoingtobe
a while." So I said to him, "Well, we'll have to find us some alternate transportation." W e were outside this harbor here, the North Cove.
I looked down, and there's these large vessels, these sight-seeing boats. There's a guy
up on one of them, a deckhand of some sort, and he's cleaning the dust off one boat. I look at
him. Basile doesn't know what I'm up to. I go down the finger planks of the dock, and I whistle up at him and I yell at him. He turned around
and looks at me. I said, "Y our boat and motor work now?" He looked at me and he said, "Yeah." I said, "Let's go."
He came down and he took us down another dock, and he put us on a boat, on a rigid hull inflatable, one of those Coast Guard type boats, about a 20 footer. He cranks it up. We

L. COOK 26
told him, we have to go to the south ferry, and we have to get there now. So the guy just fires up the boat, and we go.
We make it out into the Hudson, and
we're going down the Hudson River. We're looking back, and all we see is this big cloud of smoke
and dust. We're just like in shock, how could
this happen. We couldn't believe what happened.
I'm at the bow of the boat, and the
chief is sitting at the console where the pilot
is piloting the boat. I looked up -- I don't
know what made me look at this, but I thought it was funny because one of the pontoons in the back of the boat was flat. Something must have hit it and flattened it.
I looked at it and I laughed. I said
"Oh, great. We survived all this and now we're going to drown." He looked at me, and Basile's face lit up. He smiled and he's like, "Y ou know, you're a pisser, Louis. You just do the funniest shit."
So we make it to the south ferry, and the boat dies. They get me up to the ladder to climb up onto the dock, and I tell the chief,

L. COOK
"Just stay. I'll get your dock line. Don't worry about it." The boat dies, and they start drifting out into the harbor.
I pick up all these life savers that
they have laying on the dock with some line. I throw it to him and of course the line gets all tangled. So I just let it go. They were
laughing because I was cursing. A Coast Guard boat comes by and I start waving at him, and they're waving at me like I'm saying hello.
Schmucks.
So they get the hint that the boat is
adrift. They come back in. The guy -- the prop wasfouledontheboat. Soheclearedittoget the boat started, brings it back up to the dock, and Basile climbs up the ladder, which is funny to see a guy his size climbing up the ladder.
We just went to work and set up the
south ferry. We got there, and there were off-duty EMS people doing some election detail stuff, I remember because they were wearing election shirts. We got there --
Q. Do you remember who any of them were, Louis?

L. COOK
A. Okay, I want to say, yeah, Joan Hill Gardner. I know she was one. I think Bill Haigney was another. For the life of me, I can't remember. But they kept coming in.
(Interruption.)
A. We were in this place. The Coast Guard
was there. They were assigned to the station at the terminal. I remember seeing a lot of EMS people coming in. The ferry was coming back and forth. They stopped it on the Staten Island
side. I remember speaking with the dock master to hold the ferry for the moment.
Then MEU showed up with a truck, and it was Richie (inaudible). We started setting up the folding cots and started setting up all kinds of equipment, like we do in MASH tents. It was just a lot of activity going on.
I grabbed a Coast Guardsman. The petty officer and I grabbed him and said, "Where'sthe commander of the station?" He said, "I'll get
him for you." He got the commander of the station. He came over. We introduced ourselves. I told him what we were doing.
I told him I needed to know if they

L. COOK 29
were armed. He was like, "Why?" I said, "We're
going to need armed guards in front of this place because I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know if we're going to be -- if there's a potential for us being attacked or not or anything's going to happen. I need armed guards. "
He looked at me and he said, "This is an unarmed station. I can recall a patrol boat that's armed, but I don't have guys with guns." I was like all right. I asked him if they were trained as EMTs, and he said half the guys at this assignment were EMTs.
So I told him I wanted to choke off the ferry terminal and have people who want to seek treatment to come into a choke point to come upstairs in the ferry terminal, be triaged,
treated and we'll get them out. I don't want
just civilians wandering in, uninjured.
He agreed with me. He put his people
into action. We had the ferry still out. I
asked him, "Is there any way we can get in touch with the ferry? I need to have the ferry on our frequency all together. I need to have them."

L. COOK 30
He said, "What do you need that for?" I said,
"If we have to move all our patients, I'm taking them over to Staten Island. I will bring the resourcesfromStatenIslandwiththeferry. At the very least if we have a lot of fatalities,
we'll send them over there too."
He's said, okay. He said, "Let me get
the dock master." He got the dock master. He got the dock master's extra radio, and we started listening up and we started communicating with each other. They brought the ferry back, which had people from Staten Island University Hospital oroneofthosehospitalsoverthere. Therewere nurses, physicians, EMTs, firefighters off duty, cops off duty, because they were coming like with half uniform, half equipment and stuff.
Some of the firemen stopped who were CFRD and said if they weren't needed here they were going to go over to the collapse. We kind of pointed them the way to the collapse.
We had some units show up. I remember seeing two paramedics from here, Kevin Kelleher and Felix Marquez. They showed up.
Basically we just waited for patients,

L. COOK
and we really didn't get any. I remember at some point Dr. Cherson came. I remember seeing Manny Delgado. I remember seeing at some point Jerry Bacchus. I remember seeing Phil Ashby. At some point McCracken and Cronin showed up.
I remember McCracken was getting an abuterol treatment. Basile was needling him.
That was pretty amazing. He kind of zinged him a little bit. It was funny.
I remember seeing Roger Ahee. I can't
for the life of me now figure out who else I saw.
I know I saw volunteers showing up and volunteer ambulances.
I started seeing the exodus of
civilians. It was funny. I say exodus because
when we were coming down in the boat around the horn of Manhattan, I remember seeing boats coming in, all these boats, tugboats. Every boat
imaginable in the harbor was coming in at a full clip. I remember them hitting the sea walls.
Wherever they could stop and take peopleon,theyweretakingthem. Ijust remember seeing that. I remember tugboats just coming right to the wall with deck hands and just

L. COOK 32 pulling people. You could see some people
bleeding, some people were injured. Some people were like totally lost. Wall Streeters with like half their clothes and no briefcase and stuff. I remember seeing stuff like that. They were just getting on the boats and going. I remember seeing that.
I remember seeing tugboats and I
remember seeing fire boats coming in. I remember seeing one of the harbor boats, the cops, loaded with cops. It was just amazing to see these guys coming by boat. People were just leaving on boats.
The civilians would come to the ferry,
and they were all -- some of them were injured; someofthemwerenotinjured. Thosethatwere injured just kind of came up, got wrapped up, got irrigated, whatever, went home. The ferry came back, and they held it for a while.
Then since we weren't getting any patients, we cut it free. We said, all right, if you feel it's secure enough, take the people who want to go to Staten Island across. They started their route back and forth again, but they

L. COOK 33
understood we would call them immediately if we needed them.
I remember one trip coming back from
the ferry, because I took over the dock master's office as a command post. I remember Billy Olsen coming over on the ferry. He said he had a
skating rink on the other side set up and iced
over for a morgue. He set that up. I didn't
know what to say about that. I just let it go.
There was nothing I could tell him.
That was it. We stayed there the day,
saw next to nobody as far as patient volume, then we -- sometime during the day -- I'm assuming it was the latter part of the afternoon, I saw Mark Steffens. He finally came up, and he was a
wreck. He gave me a big hug. He was glad to see me, and actually I was glad to see him. I didn't know where he was. He told me his story. He was really shaking, I remember.
We got a message we had to go to
Chambers and West, there's an interagency meeting happening immediately. So we had to find a way back to get Basile's car, if it was even there.
I don't know how the hell we got there. I don't

L. COOK 34
even know how we got -- I don't think we walked back, but I don't know how we got back to Basile's car, to get his car. I don't know. I
don't know how we got from one place to the other.
We were walking up West Street, because we came south -- yeah, it was just a couple
blocks away. We went through Whitehall Street. We came south again from the towers. We tried to find the car. It was amazing to see just what
was all over the place. Buildings burning
without any fire suppression or anything going
on.
It was amazing. It was just chaos,
just junk and cars crushed. The bodies that I
remembered seeing on West Street when we were going up to the command post originally were just kind of like covered up. They were all covered.
I remember just thinking where all the bodies
are. I'm walking around now and I can't see them.
We found Bobby Brown's car, which was Billy Day's burned. Billy's probably pissed. Nose smashed in pretty well. I crawled and

L. COOK 35
popped the trunk lid and took his bag and left
everything else, personal effects, there. We just tried to find our car. We
found it eventually. It took us a while because everything just didn't resemble what it was. We found it. It was covered in dust and soot. Without exaggerating, a foot and a half of dust on the car. You just couldn't tell whose car was whose. The only way we found it was he said, "I'll try this one," and he stuck the key in
there and the cylinder turned. It was ours.
We brushed off the debris and the dust. (Interruption.)
MS.BASTEDENBECK: We'recontinuingthe
interview with Paramedic Louis Cook.
A. We went back around to the south ferry. We picked up Mark Steffens. I was in the car with Chief Basile. I have no idea who else was in the car. I know the car was packed because we were shoulder to shoulder. I can't remember who else was in the car.
So we dropped off some stuff, started
up the FDR Drive, got off -- actually the service road of the FDR Drive. We came around by 1 Truck

L. COOK 36
by South Street and I can't think of the cross street, like Beaver or something. We started
weaving our way through the streets because we just had no idea where we could get around.
We finally made it up to Chambers and Greenwich. We went up to Chambers and Greenwich through this mess. Driving through this was like nuclear winter with all the dust and everything
else. We got to Chambers and Greenwich, and the chief turns around and says, "There's number
Seven World Trade. That's the OEM bunker." We had a snicker about that. We looked over, and
it's engulfed in flames and starting to collapse.
We're kind of caught in traffic and
people and things, and everything's going on. We hear over the fire portable, "Everybody evacuate the site. It's going to collapse." Mark
Steffens starts yelling, "Get out of here! Get
out of here! Get out of here! We've got to go! We've got to go! It's going to collapse."
I turned around, and I piped up real
loud and said, "Stay in the frigging car. Roll the windows up. It's pancake collapsing. We'll be find. The debris will quit and the cloud will

L. COOK 37
come through. Just stay in the car." We pulled
the car over, turned around and just watched it pancake. We had a dust cloud but nothing like it was before.
We ended up, up the street at the command post, and it was a sea of people. For the life of me, I can't tell you who was there.
I just don't know. Everyone was chattering and talking about this and about that. No one really had any stories. It was just like business. I
just remember that.
He looked at me after the meeting at
the interagency meeting. I remember seeing Ron Pfeffer at the command board doing tracking, doing tracking and stuff. I spoke to him for a moment.
That was it. They sent us home later
that night from the command post, and we came back the very next morning very early back at the World Trade Center. I came here. I don't remember if Basile picked me up or I took the car. I remember we met up down there. We were there together. I don't remember from there. We stayed for days doing our job.

L. COOK 38 That's pretty much it. That's pretty
much it.
Q. Is there anything else you would like
to add to the events prior to 11:00 that morning? A. There was just so much going on. I
speak about it and then something else will pop in my head, things that I can remember.
After the collapse I just had a
disturbed feeling that I knew we lost people, a lot of people, EMS people. I started thinking about that and I thought about all my friends that I've known for years.
I started thinking, well, where's my
sister, because my sister's a cop. I'm like,
great, I don't know where she is, I don't know where anybody is, I don't know what's going on.
It was very, very disturbing. I have
no bravado. I've seen plane crashes and all the
jobs and stuff. I've never quite seen some of the things there that seem to overwhelm my thoughts.
I don't know what else to say I don't know what else to say. I feel like I haven't really contributed much. It's just a lot, I

L. COOK
guess, a lot of that going on. I really can't think of a lot else.
I don't remember seeing -- I remember seeing some fire officers and I remember seeing Fire Patrol, the guys with the red helmets. It's sad that we lost all those guys. Basile I think
at one point said --
(Interruption.)
A. I can't recall anything else. I know
Chief Fanning was with us or Chief Galvin was with us at some point at the command post. Actually that's what Chief Basile told me.
That was it. I just really can't
remember much. Everything seems like a blur. I get these moments where I remember something. That's about it. I can't really add. I wish I
had more information for you.
MS.BASTEDENBECK: Okay. This concludes our interview with Paramedic Louis Cook. The time now is 816 a.m.
File No. 9110104
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         PARAMEDIC STEVEN PILLA
   Interview Date:  October 17, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
S. PILLA 2
          MR. ECCLESTON:  Today's date is October
     17th, 2001.  The time is 11:27.  My name is
     Christopher Eccleston of the New York City
     Fire Department.  I'm conducting an
     interview with the following individual.
          Please state your name, title and
     assigned command of the New York City Fire
     Department in regards to the events of
     September 11, 2001.
          PARAMEDIC PILLA:  My name is STEVEn
     Pilla.  I'm one of the ALS coordinators for
     Division 6 EMS.
     Q.   STEVE, were you assigned to the World
Trade Center disaster on September 11th, 2001?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Could you please tell me in your own
words about the events surrounding that day?
     A.   Well, let's see, in the morning I got
to work like usual.  I heard that there was an
explosion -- I heard the radio on citywide in the
office.  So we heard the lieutenant on the scene
screaming that he needs every available
ambulance.
          It was very interesting because I was
S. PILLA 3
at that explosion in '93.  I was on the street at
that point.  I remember when they sent us down
there, we turned to citywide.  It was a very
similar conversation from that lieutenant:  Give
me everything you've got here.  Smoke coming out
of the world -- I thought that it was a tape on.
They said no, there was an explosion.  We turned
the TV on.  Sure enough, the tower was on fire.
          As we're watching the TV, we saw the
second plane hit.  I'm like, is that another
plane that hit?  Like God, one could be, two is
no longer an accident.  The chief rounded us all
up, and we started heading down.
     Q.   Which chief?
     A.   Chief Pascale.
          We took the Henry Hudson Parkway.
     Q.   Can you just tell me the other
personnel that you were with?
     A.   It was myself; Neil Sweeney, who is
vacation relief right now for the other
coordinator who is out on refresher; Amedegnato,
who is one of the chief's aides here, EMT;
Lieutenant Cahill, who was the officer in charge
in the division; and Chief Pascale herself.
S. PILLA 4
          All five of us got into the car with
some equipment and took off down there.  We got
to the Henry Hudson from Jacobi.  We hit a lot of
traffic.  It was at that point I think they
already realized that this was some sort of
attack.  After getting through barricades and
then smooth sailing, to find more barricades.  We
kept getting delayed getting down there.
          We finally get to the end of the West
Side Highway.  As we turned, we could see both
towers on fire.  This brought back from '93 when
I got there all the smoke coming out, glass
breaking and stuff.  I had no idea what we were
going to face.
          As soon as we got there, we just passed
one of the walkway bridges just past Stuyvesant
High School.  There's a walkway bridge.  We just
passed that, got to Vesey.  The chief was saying
we have to find the chief, find the command
center at West and Vesey.
          We see this plume, come down in front
of us.  Originally I thought basically it was the
facade of the building that came down.  We made a
quick right.  I looked behind me.  Neil was
S. PILLA 5
driving, I wasn't; I was in the back.  I looked
behind me.  I could see this plume of shit just
chasing us.  They're looking for a place to park,
and I'm going, "Keep going.  Keep going.  Don't
stop."  It finally overtook us to the point we
couldn't see where we were driving.
          We parked the car, and then we got out,
got our helmets.  We were getting ash and stuff
coming onto us, this dark plume.  One of the
firemen who now works as a medic for one of the
private hospitals, he comes out and sees me.
     Q.   Do you know his name?
     A.   I'll give it to you later as soon as
I --
Q. Okay.
     A.   He comes out and he goes, "STEVE."  I
said, "What?"  He couldn't find his partner.  I'm
looking to him and saying to myself, you can't
find him?  I'm thinking the worst.  Then someone
else was coming out of the plume.  The lieutenant
and Neil went to get them and came out.
          Then we all had to leave because it was
getting darker and darker and stuff was getting
bigger and bigger.  So we all took off I find out
S. PILLA 6
in different directions.  We couldn't find
anybody for a while.
          We found an ambulance and got some
paper masks to wear for the ash.  But it was
really dark, like nighttime, just waiting until
this stuff goes over.  I remember after the
darkness went away I could see the sun coming
through the sky.  I guess the building was no
longer blocking the sun.
          We walked around.  I believe now it was
close to water.  It was towards the American
Express building, I'd say, or Merrill Lynch, one
of these buildings.
Q. Okay.
     A.   The ambulances started coming around
from the side.  They just filled with all the
debris from the tower.  The MERV took off with
its doors open, the steps on it, bouncing down
the street.  I was like, hmm, this is not a good
thing.
          We managed to set up some triage, get
ALS up.  Then we found the chief, found the
lieutenant, found Amedegnato and Neil and tried
to get the ambulances together, around the
S. PILLA 7
corner, staged.  I remember on one ambulance
there was an hysterical EMT in the back that
couldn't find her partner.
     Q.   Do you remember who that was?
     A.   I don't know who she was.  She was
looking for her partner Patrick.
     Q.   Do you know Patrick who?
     A.   Sorry.
     Q.   Okay.  That's fine.
     A.   So how she's looking for her partner.
She wanted to go back.  I told her -- someone was
with her.  I said, "You've got to hold her here.
Hold her.  Don't let her go back."  Obviously we
had a big disaster.  Like ten minutes later her
partner walked up.  I said, "Go hug your partner.
She misses you."
          We set up a triage area in the lobby of
the building.  I'm still trying to figure out
what building we were in.  I believe it was the
Winter Garden building.  That's the only one I
can think of.  So we're in that building.  People
started coming in filled with ash and choking and
respiratory problems.  But no one was really
hurt.  So we were taking care of that.
S. PILLA 8
          Then they said the building was coming
down, the other tower.  We need to leave.  So we
all took off.  The people who I was taking care
of who couldn't walk got out the door before I
did.  It was unbelievable.
          You could hear the roar.  Outside you
could hear the roar of the building coming down.
It just slowly got faster and faster.  It was
unbelievable.  It was like a freight train.
          You go around the corner only to be
greeted by another plume of smoke from the other
building.  So now ambulances were taking off, and
one ambulance stopped and said, "STEVE, get in
the ambulance."  I jumped in, and we waited there
until it settled.  No big debris came towards us.
It was just the dust and dirt.  When that kind of
settled, you could see the light again.
          I popped out, went back into the same
building, which wasn't as damaged, and did triage
again.  There were more and more people in there.
There was a girl with a broken leg.  She got
blown just from the force of the ash.  She kept
going down from the force of the ash.  We ended
up treating her.  She was stable.
S. PILLA 9
                       There was a chief in there, a fire
             chief, with a broken shoulder and bloody nose.  I
             was going down the line triaging people.  They
             were upset, they were bent.  People with no shoes
             on I guess from running out of the tower.
                       A fire chief comes over to me and says,
             "Listen, son.  There was a terrorist attack.
             This building's next, because they know they're
             going to start attacking other buildings."  He
             had a very good point there, because you're
             always waiting for the next attack.  This is a
             terrorist act.
                       So I got my chief and decided to go
             into Stuyvesant High School.  At that point I was
             going to get the fire chief
out, to an ambulance,
             get him out of the way.  There was a Port
             Authority cop who crashed on us.  He was doing
             fine, the next minute he had no blood pressure.
             We got him out to an ambulance.
                  Q.   What kind of injuries did he have?
                  A.   Nothing obvious, but it must have been
             the shock from the whole thing, or an internal
             thing is possible.  Maybe mashed, he might have
             been squished, hit by something, and not even
S. PILLA 10
know it.  We got him in an ambulance and got him
out to a hospital.
     Q.   Do you know who his name was?
     A.   Maybe this happened -- the time period
is like within an hour.  It's amazing.  On the
map I see now we actually ran towards the other
buildings instead of running away from
everything.
          At that point we're getting everything
together, and now we're going to move to
Stuyvesant High School.  Somebody comes in and
says there's a gas leak, there's explosions going
on, we have to evacuate.
          So now we're all running out of the
building again.  The 20 people I'm treating again
beat me to the door.  I have no idea where these
20 people are.  Someone is running around with a
triage cage around their neck.
          So we run out.  You try not to hear the
explosions in the background, things just blowing
up; vehicles, I guess, that were on fire from the
debris or if there were gas leaks.  You could
hear them getting closer and closer, so there was
a good possibility there were gas explosions.
S. PILLA 11
          I get into Stuyvesant High School and
the dust settles.  You calm down.  You figure
you're safe now.  Somebody comes in yelling there
are gas explosions coming towards the high
school, we need to evacuate.
          At this point you have hundreds of
people running into this high school.  Now you're
evacuating again.  Once you get yourself
together, you had to run.  You just kept doing
that for like the first hour.  We just kept
running until I could see the buildings.  We're
about this big.  About an inch.  Okay.  Now
everybody's safe.  What do they do, the rule of
thumb.  But I used my pinky, though.
          We stayed there on the corner for the
longest time.  Sure enough, people were still
coming out of that portion with ash on them and
problems breathing.  I took my oxygen tank with
me.  It's like my safety blanket.  Everywhere I
was going I was giving oxygen to people to get
themselves back together.  There were 20 people
just stopping, giving them oxygen, and going to
the next one.
          A Port Authority cop came out.  Their
S. PILLA 12
suits are dark blue.  He was white.  His whole
suit was pure white.  They set up their own
triage area in another high school, one of the
colleges.
     Q.   Across the street from --
     A.   No, it's down the block.  So they're
there for the longest time, because they needed
some supplies, needed ambulances.  The radios
were not working.  We had a radio with us.  But I
knew there was a triage area and transport area
two blocks from there.  They had like ten
ambulances.  Another triage and transport area
down the other road with MERVs and ambulances.
So we were basically running back and forth where
they need an ambulance, playing gofer.  Somebody
just needed a gofer to go back and forth.
          We went upstairs to the (inaudible).
It was in the auditorium, like a gym.  They had
doctors that had come in from all over, doing
treatment.  Great.  Some EMTs showed up from
Hazollah.  They were in there.  A lot of walking
wounded.  No one with real life-threatening
injuries.  But then again I kind of figured that
because all the life-threatening injuries were in
S. PILLA 13
the rubble.
          So strange we had all these triage
areas set up and we were getting dribs and drabs.
There were no real patients.  You think people
would get out of the muck; right?  It was like
walking wounded or dead.  That was basically it.
There was no one or few critical.  When the first
building came down, we did.  When the second
building came down, it was even less.
          It was kind of strange, we had a
tugboat set to go to Jersey with a frequency how
to get in touch with them.  We had doctors at
another triage area.  But there were no patients.
          (Interruption.)
     A.   Then it was about 5:00, because I was
getting hungry.  We were eating oatmeal cookies
and watered-down Gatorade from the Salvation Army
and the Red Cross.  They were great.  They had
plenty of food.  But we were getting hungry.
          We walked back.  We didn't do any
further because building number seven was coming
down.  That was another problem, to wait for
building seven to come down, because that was
unsecure.  It was about 5:30 that building came
down.
S. PILLA 14
          Again another plume of smoke.  Again if
you got too close you had to start running again.
In the plumes there was like big debris, small
debris, not to mention whatever contaminants were
in it.
          We finally got to ground zero, Chambers
and West.  I met Al, who was in refresher who was
now sitting down there with an ambulance full of
patients.  He got sent to the pharmacy.  So I was
standing there for a while, looking at the MERV.
Again, there was not a lot of patients coming in,
just people coming in with ash in their eyes.
That was it.
          We didn't do much, to tell you the
truth.  I was just walking around aimlessly,
because there was nothing much to do.  You sat
there.  You were amazed.  You just lost two
buildings and possibly 50,000 people at most, if
not maybe about 10,000 if they got the buildings
evacuated.  You just watched 10,000 people die.
Unbelievable.
          I remember going back into the high
school and got some food.  At that point it
S. PILLA 15
really hit, I'm hungry and thirsty.  I get
headaches when I don't eat, so I was getting this
bad headache.
          The only thing I remember is walking
around and it's like five inches of ash and
paperwork from everyone's office.  Some were
burnt, so you imagine where that paperwork came
from.  People's personal memos, financial
records, everything, on the street.
          It was about 7, 7:30 we finally
contacted the chief.  We had lost her.  We didn't
know where she was.  She didn't know where we
were.  She came back to ground zero, and we met
her.  She got all of us together, and we went
back to our car to get back here.
          We got back to the car.  It was filled
with ash.  It was like it snowed.  We didn't even
wipe the car off before you got in the car.  It
was ash; it wasn't even snow.  It even managed to
get inside the car.  It was totally unreal.
          I remember somebody saying to
everybody, "Don't forget to fill out an exposure
form when you get back."  God only knows what was
in that.  You could feel the fiberglass on your
S. PILLA 16
arms.  You knew it was like pulverized glass and
fiberglass.  Everything was pulverized.
          We got back here and chilled out, went
home, hugged my wife, ditched my clothes, and
came back to try to see what to do the next day.
I've been in the office since.  I've never gone
back down to ground zero.  Some day I do want to
go back there just to actually physically see
where it was, where I was running to.  In the
whole maze, you're just running and running and
you don't see where you're going.
          I know when I ran out the building the
building was falling.  I looked to the right, and
the plume was coming towards us.  I looked to the
left, and I said I can't go back that way because
the building (inaudible).  I can't go this way,
to the right; I can't go left.  I hope my helmet
works.  That's all I've got left.  From the looks
of things, it's not going to work too well.  So
that's when an ambulance pulled up and said hop
in.
          That's about it.  I spent the rest of
my time trying to get myself back together again.
Today is the first day I actually got myself on a
S. PILLA 17
normal schedule.  It's over a month.
          A plane passes over, you hear -- the
only other plane -- I'm in Westchester.  The
airport closes at 12 midnight it's 2:00 in the
morning, and I hear this roar of a plane go by.
It's the same rumble.  I was dreaming about this
building falling down, with the smoke and all.
          That's my story.
     Q.   Is there anything else you would like
to add to this in regards to the events that
happened prior to 12 noon?
     A.   No, I pretty much gave you every detail
I could imagine.
     Q.   Thank you very much for conducting this
interview with me.
          MR. ECCLESTON:  This interview is being
     concluded at 1147 hours.
File No. 9110105
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         EMS CHIEF JAMES BASILE
   Interview Date:  October 17, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
J. BASTILE 2
          MS. BASTEDENBECK:  Today is October
     17th, 2001.  The time is 839 hours.  My name
     is Christine Bastedenbeck from the New York
     Fire Department.  I'm here to conduct an
     interview with the following individual.
          CHIEF BASILE:  Chief JAMES BASILE,
     B-A-S-I-L-E, EMS operations, EMS Division 2
     commander.
          MS. BASTEDENBECK:  Also present for the
     interview --
          MR. ECCLESTON:  Christopher Eccleston
     from the New York City Fire Department World
     Trade Center disaster task force.
     Q.   Chief, I'm just going to ask you if you
can recount the events of September 11th, 2001.
     A.   I first became aware of the World Trade
Center incident from my staff, who was watching
the morning news.  They had turned on the news,
and we had seen the original plane had struck
tower number one of the World Trade Center.  At
that point we started to monitor the radio
activities here, the CAD job.
          Within a few minutes, the other
building was struck.  At that point I called the
J. BASTILE 3
Citywide Dispatch Supervisor, informing them we
were available if necessary.  I felt at that
point based on the magnitude of the incident that
I should respond.
          So I responded from Division 2's office
with paramedic Louis Cook.  We traveled Pelham
Parkway onto the Hutchison River Parkway to the
Whitestone Bridge, where we had seen the
magnitude of the incident outplayed firsthand.
From the Whitestone Bridge, we entered the
Whitestone Expressway onto the Van Wyck
Expressway onto the Long Island Expressway, where
we started to take a real perspective of the
incident because of the closer we had gotten.
          By the time we reached the Queens
Midtown Expressway, that perception now before
the tunnel, we had seen how big it really was.
My greatest fear was additional attacks at that
point, knowing past history with terrorists and
how they operate.
          By the time we got to the tunnel, there
must have been 20-25 vehicles behind us, a few
cars in front of us.  Chief Hirth was in front of
us.  Chief Carrasquillo was also in front of us.
J. BASTILE 4
We got into the tunnel.  We had clear access into
the tunnel and onto 34th Street and the FDR
Drive.
          We traveled the FDR Drive, came through
the tunnel down in lower Manhattan and out onto
the West Side Highway.  I parked the vehicle at
approximately West Street and I believe it was
Albany to Carlisle.  It might have been Albany.
     Q.   Can you just indicate with the
number 1?
     A.   Carlisle to Rector or Albany.  I'm
going to put a 1 here.
          I exited the vehicle with all my
appropriate gear and walked up to the command
post, which was located adjacent to the Winter
Garden theater at that point.  I met with Chief
Jerry Gombo and Chief Walter Kowalczyk and was
directed to go into the lobby of number One World
Trade Center at that point.  The buildings are
still up and intact.
          Louis Cook and I went in together.  We
found out it was very dangerous entering the
premise, that there was numerous parts of the
building and other foreign bodies being thrown
J. BASTILE 5
around from the higher floors.
          We entered the lobby.  There I met
Citywide Truck Commander Joseph Callan, Fire
Division 1 Commander Chief Hayden and Fire
Battalion 1 Joe Pfeifer, Safety Battalion Chief
Stephen King, Father Judge, and OEM Port
Authority officials in the command post within
the lobby of number one.
          We were looking to effect a way of exit
for personnel in the building and a place where
we could establish treatment sites.  I advised
the incident commander that was in the Trade
Center with me that access from the front of the
building was inappropriate and that we should
look for other exits.  That's when I sent Louis
Cook with a Port Authority cop to find a
different access for civilians and public safety
personnel to come in on.
          We were operating in the lobby, and all
of a sudden we heard the roar of a jet engine, is
what it sounded like.  We thought that there was
another plane coming into the building.  We went
from the lobby area into an elevator bank area --
escalators that led into the concourse area.  So
J. BASTILE 6
there was essentially a wall that we went around
from the command post area to the escalator area.
          Not two seconds later debris and dust
started to come in, and essentially we were just
shut down.  Everything was dark, pitch-black.
     Q.   Before the collapse, was the lobby
still lit?
     A.   The lobby was functional.  When I first
arrived there, there appeared to be a lot of
people there.  The Port Authority had set up some
type of chain to help lead people out.  I would
say within the last two minutes before building
two had fallen that the bulk of the people were
out of the lobby and it was essentially just the
Fire, Port Authority and OEM personnel with me.
The lobby was essentially clear.
     Q.   Did you go into any of the stairways or
did you stay in the lobby?
     A.   I just stayed in the lobby at that
point.  We heard the roar of the jet -- what I
thought was a jet coming in, and I believe the
others did, and we went into the escalator area
for shelter.
          Everybody got down on the ground.
J. BASTILE 7
There was some debris that fell.  There was a lot
of soot and dust.  It was pitch-black.  The only
light that we had was the handheld lanterns, and
there was a photographer, a video crew that was
following one of the battalion chiefs, that he
provided some light.
          All access to the lobby area was cut
off, and any egress from that level was cut off.
I opted to grab a hold of a Port Authority cop
who knew the building well and ask for another
way out.  We ventured to take the escalator up
into the concourse level.
          I went up to the concourse level.  All
the glass had been shattered out at that point.
We were able to get out.  I saw people starting
to come out from the building on the concourse.
I met with Fire Battalion Chief Turner and a few
other firemen -- I don't know their names -- and
assisted in moving patients, civilians, out.
          I did some quick treatment of a couple
of patients.  One gentleman had a severe gash to
his forearm.  I don't know how, but he had gauze
with him.  So I wrapped him up.  I effectively
was able to bring out about 300 civilians from
J. BASTILE 8
the building at that point in the matter of, I
guess, 12, 15 minutes.
          We were helping people over large areas
of debris and channelling them, trying to keep
them calm, bringing them over to a walkway that
led to number Seven World Trade Center.
          When the majority of the civilians were
out, I waited a few minutes.  There was nobody
else coming out.  I had a feeling, a gut feeling
inside that it was time for me to leave.  So I
started walking.  I went over the walking bridge
to number seven.  I went into the second level or
the main lobby of number seven and walked down
the escalator.
          As I was approaching the corner of West
and Vesey, I heard over the radio that the
building was leaning.  As I was crossing West
Street, that's when I heard that jet sound again.
I knew that the building was coming down.  I made
it about -- somewhere between West and North End
there was a fence, approximately, I guess, 200
feet or maybe 100 yards away.  I decided to use
that as a wall to protect myself from any debris,
not knowing what the extent of the magnitude was
J. BASTILE 9
going to be.
          I brought a couple of civilians down
with me, a couple of firefighters, I brought them
close to the ground.  I covered them with my
turnout coat with me.  I essentially waited and
figured that was it, it was all over, because of
the proximity to where we were to where the
building was.
          It went down, got filled with this dust
and dirt, debris, again, this cloud.  I opened up
my eyes.  It was total darkness I guess for about
two, three minutes.  I thought I guess this is
what it's like to be dead.  Then I heard a woman
screaming next to me, and I said I guess we're
still all here.  So that was good.
          We waited until we were able to see a
little light.  I was able to get the woman up.
We went into a bagel store which was located at
North End and Vesey, where we took some water.  I
gave her water and a couple other people.  At the
back of the deli counter in the kitchen area,
they had like a little portable shower, I guess a
dish shower.  We hosed each other down.
          I went into a building off of River
J. BASTILE 10
Terrace, I believe, and Vesey where a lot of the
chiefs had regrouped.  I met with Chief
Kowalczyk, Gombo.  I don't remember the other
chiefs that were there at the time.  Essentially
we were trying to put a plan together of what we
were going to do.
          I was directed at that point to set up
a treatment site over at the ferry terminal.
Louie Cook and I, we wound up finding each other.
I thought he was a goner too.  I didn't know
where he was.  I thought it was all over.
          We met, and we took a few minutes out.
I told Louis, I said, "We're not going back to
the West Side Highway.  We're going to walk
around if necessary."  So we were walking down
North End.  We were down by the yacht harbor.
Louie Cook saw a boatsmate who was sweeping
debris off of one of the boats.
          He called out to the boatsmate and
asked him, "Do you have a dingy?"  The guy said,
"Yeah, what do you need?"  He said, "Well, we
need a ride out to the ferry terminal."  He said,
"Okay."  So we wound up having a zodiac
inflatable boat.
J. BASTILE 11
          Actually it was a good respite because
we were able to get away from the scene for a
little bit and clear our heads and the air was
clear and we were able to see the magnitude of
what had just happened with us.
          We got into the zodiac, and we traveled
down the Hudson River to the MIL, the marine
input center, the Coast Guard station, where they
dock their vessels.  Of course Louie got off, and
he was going to hold the boat for me, and then we
got carried out into the water.  Then something
jammed in the propeller, so we're stranded out
there.
          I saw some Coast Guard or some New York
City cops in another zodiac.  I tried to wave
them down, and they zipped by.  Five minutes
later Louie is trying to throw me a life
preserver on a rope, which got about two feet off
of the pier.  It was comical, to say the least.
He was able to unwrap the rope from the
propeller, and we got started again.  I got up
the ladder, and I exited.
          At that point we went over to the ferry
terminal.  There were some EMS crews there
J. BASTILE 12
already.  I'm not positive whether I met
Dr. Cherson at that point or if it was slightly
thereafter, but in essence we took over the
second floor of the ferry terminal and we
established a medical treatment site.
          We had moved all the benches out.  We
had prioritized all the areas as far as
treatments.  A number of physicians and health
care professionals had come in, civilians from
the street.  Dominic Maggiore was there at the
time and helped set up the treatment and staging
areas.
          Essentially I spent the best part of
the day there, trying to get things established,
thinking that there was going to be a mass exodus
to the ferry terminal, patients looking for
treatment, at least everybody going back to
Staten Island.
          In essence we didn't treat that many
patients.  We did about five transports, one
being Deputy Chief Robert Browne.  He had
staggered in.  He had severe conjunctiva of both
eyes and some back pain.  He was immobilized and
transported to Penninsular General.
J. BASTILE 13
          About 4:30 I was asked to go over to
the command post which is located at Chambers and
West, so I had gotten together -- I was with Mark
Steffens, Fred Villani and Louie Cook.  We picked
up the car, brushed it off.  There was about four
or five inches of dust on the car.
          We traversed around the east side of
Manhattan, tried to get to Chambers and West.  We
had gotten to -- I don't know what street this
is -- Washington.  We were at Washington and
Chambers when we saw number seven come down.
That was about 5:20.  We watched that come down.
We watched this plume of smoke coming at us.
          I just drove up the block, and I said,
"Everybody stay in the car."  We waited for
everything.
          We went to the command post.  I was
shot for the day.  I had severe conjunctiva.  I
couldn't breathe.  I came back at 6 the next
morning.
     Q.   Anything else you want to add?
     A.   That's it.  I think everybody's story
is going to tell it.
          MS. BASTEDENBECK:  This concludes the
J. BASTILE 14
interview.  The time now is 855 hours.
     Thank you, Chief.
File No. 9110106
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         LIEUTENANT JOHN NEVINS
   Interview Date:  October 17, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
J. NEVINS
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today's date is October 17,
     2001.  The time is 1327 hours.  I'm Paul Radenberg
     of the Fire Department of the City of New York.
     Q.   Conducting an interview with?
     A.   Lieutenant JOHN NEVINS, New York City Fire
Department, assigned to fire operations.
     Q.   We are conducting this interview at 9
Metrotech, fourth floor, in the BITS interview room,
regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
     A.   On September 11, I was at my job location at
9 Metrotech, 7th floor.  At approximately 8:35, 8:40,
somebody announced in the office that a plane had
struck the World Trade Center, at which time, we looked
out the window.  We could see that there was a large
hole in one of the towers of the World Trade Center.
          I proceeded with Lieutenant Bradley Mann down
to the EMS operations area, obtained radios, and began
to respond to the assignment.
          We exited 9 Metrotech from the front doors,
proceeded around to the garage area where we met
Citywide Chief Sal Cassano, exiting the garage.  We got
into his car and responded into Manhattan.  I believe
he went -- I'm not sure which way he went through
Brooklyn, but he arrived at the Sand Street entrance to
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J. NEVINS
Brooklyn Bridge, proceeded over the Brooklyn Bridge
into lower Manhattan.
          We exited the car.  I believe the Chief
parked at West and Vesey Street.  Actually, the map is
more (inaudible).  I believe this is Broadway.
     Q.   Yes, this is West Broadway.
     A.   Yes, West Broadway, behind the US Post Office
Federal Office Building across the street from the 7
World Trade, Lieutenant Mann and myself began down
towards West Street on Vesey.  Chief Cassano exited the
vehicle and I believe he headed towards Church Street.
That was the last I saw of him until Thursday.
          As we turned the corner and were standing in
front of 7 World Trade, the second plane struck tower
number 2.  Lieutenant Mann and myself paused
momentarily to find some shelter in front of 7 World
Trade under an overpass.  We then proceeded once we
were safe farther down Vesey Street to the corner of
West Street, where we took over West and Vesey staging.
          We began staging ambulances on Vesey Street
between West and North End Avenue.  I'm not sure of the
exact number of ambulances, somewhere between 20 and 30
had arrived from numerous agencies; Lenox Hill,
Cabrini, FDNY.  Also at this location a MERV was staged
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J. NEVINS
approximately between 3 World Financial and 12 World
Financial.  There is a parking lot in front of the
Embassy Suites Hotel.  We staged in the street facing
North End Avenue.
          From there we spent -- at that point, from
the staging location, we remained there staging
ambulances until the collapse of 2 World Trade Center.
Just prior to the collapse of 2 World Trade Center,
probably 5 to 10 minutes, Chief Fred Villani arrived at
our location and he was transitioning into taking over
the staging at that location.
          At that point 2 World Trade Center began to
collapse.  I was directed by Chief Villani to run, at
which time we continued down Vesey Street on to North
End Avenue.  Following the collapse, we attempted to
regroup, shuttle ambulances down on to North End and
reestablish the staging location at that area.
          For approximately 10 to 15 minutes we
continued to do that until we were told that -- I
believe at the direction of the police, that that area
was probably unsafe due to the impending collapse in
number 1 World Trade Center.
          At that point, I continued down North End
Avenue towards Murray Street.  At that point I entered
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J. NEVINS
a construction trailer, I believe located between
Murray and Park Place in an attempt to find a helmet.
At that point, the collapse of number 1 World Trade
Center occurred and myself and a large group of police,
firefighters, and some civilians took refuge in that
area until the debris and dust cloud had settled.
          Following that, I exited the construction
trailers, headed farther down North End Avenue
attempting to locate personnel and ambulances.  I came
around to the park area along the River Terrace, at
Chambers Street, and at that point I found
approximately 3 ambulances.  I believe one was a Lenox
Hill bus and two EMTs or paramedics, who stated that
they had shuttled the ambulances to that location.
However, they weren't aware of where the crews for the
trucks had gone or the location of any other
personnel.
          At that point we attempted to -- I attempted
to gather personnel at that location and through the
park, I began to walk through the park to see if there
were any personnel taking refuge in the park.  I didn't
find any.  However, along the bulkhead of the park,
there was numerous New York Waterway ferries, so we
attempted to establish a transport center if necessary
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J. NEVINS
with them to transport any patients to New Jersey if it
became necessary.
          I was standing by at that location when the
police then directed us to exit the park due to the
fact that they believed there was a ruptured gas main
underneath the park.  I headed down Chambers Street to
West Street, at which point I ran into EMT Richie
Zarrillo from operations, Chief Hirth and his aide.
          At that point I asked Chief Hirth for
direction.  I was told that he was not sure what
exactly -- whether we should head back toward the World
Trade Center or head up to Chelsea Piers, where a
casualty collection point had been set up.  I had heard
that previously on the radio, so I decided along with
EMT Zarrillo that I would head up to Chelsea Piers.
          I started walking along West Street for
numerous blocks until I was able to get a ride with a
Hatzolah ambulance up to the staging location at
Chelsea Piers, where I again became the secondary
staging officer for Chelsea Piers.
     Q.   Do you remember approximately what time that
was by the time you got up to the pier?
     A.   Probably half an hour to 45 minutes after the
collapse of the second tower.
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J. NEVINS
     Q.   When you came over to Vesey and West, prior
to the first collapse, most of the vehicles there, the
ambulances, were not Department ambulances?
     A.   No, most of them were not Department
ambulances.  There were ambulances from Lenox Hill,
there were Hatzolah volunteers, there were a few EMS
ambulances.  One of them was I believe 22 Henry, Staten
Island HAZTAC ambulance.  I remember that one
specifically because they had requested they needed to
bring their HAZTAC equipment with them.  I believe
there was a Metro Care ambulance that was --
          There was vehicle 125 and -- unfortunately
the list of all the units that were in staging were --
got lost in the ensuing.
Q. Chaos?
     A.   Chaos of the collapse.  There were a few
Chief's cars.  I believe they were Fire Department,
Chief's vehicles, unmarked vehicles, that were on Vesey
Street off of West Avenue.  There was a small upgrade
across from American Express.  They were parked along
there next to the -- there is a parking lot there.
     Q.   You were with Lieutenant Mann?
     A.   Yes, Brad Mann.
     Q.   He is from EMS?
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J. NEVINS
     A.   Yes.  Fire operations, EMS fire operations.
     Q.   Did you see any other Department personnel
when you got over to West and Vesey that you recognize
their full name that you could place there?
     A.   Not from FDNY, but there were -- actually,
one of the FDNY people that was there was Gary Smiley,
a paramedic, and his partner.  I'm not sure who his
partner was that day.  I actually had seen him later at
Chelsea Piers.  He arrived with his ambulance and his
partner.  Chief Villani was in that area.  Again his
car was parked on Vesey between West and North End.
          One of the others, let's see, Raoul Perez, he
is a paramedic for Lenox Hill, him and his partner were
in the staging area.  I can't think of anybody else
that I definitely recognized.  There was a Hatzolah
crew.  I believe they were the midtown Hatzolah.  There
were approximately 4 to 5 people in their ambulance.
They just kept asking me if they needed to -- if I
wanted to send them up towards the building.  However,
I told them to stay with their vehicle.
     Q.   At that point were there any patients in the
area?
     A.   We were getting reports of patients in the
foyer areas between 3 World Financial Center and 4
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J. NEVINS
World Financial Center.  However, I hadn't headed over
to that area and none of the crews that were with me
were reporting treating any patients.  One ambulance
did come through, I'm not sure whether it had picked up
a patient, however, as they were heading out past the
staged ambulances, we stopped them and they said they
were transporting a burn patient.  They were headed I
believe to Cornell.  I believe they left prior to the
collapse.
     Q.   When the first tower came down, from where
you were, debris that was coming down, did it come down
into the staging area here or --
     A.   No.
     Q.   Can you remember?
     A.   No, the only thing that affected us was dust
and debris.  I had actually been standing -- I was
standing facing towards North End Avenue, so I was
facing away from the building when there was a --
started a loud noise, I remember like a sound, like a
cracking sound and Chief Villani ran past me and told
me, John, run for your life.
          As I turned around it appeared to be the top
of the tower was shifting.  I just started running down
towards North End.  I didn't stop until I rounded the
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J. NEVINS
corner past the Embassy Suites hotel and at that point,
there was a lot of dust and debris, tough to see back
down.  Couldn't see down Vesey Street to West Street,
so I was unable to see where debris had landed.  I
began in the intersection attempting to get personnel
to move ambulances and bring them farther up the street
and around back onto North End Avenue.
          Also at that point, I'm not sure which --
there was an ambulance from the voluntary hospital
treating one patient on a corner, I guess it's the
southwest corner of North End and Vesey on the corner.
There's an apartment complex across North End, by 4
World Financial.  There was a patient on the corner
there and I directed one of the voluntary hospital
units who had both crew members to treat the patient
there.
          Again, what happened to that patient and
where they went, I'm not really sure, due to the fact
that they had loaded the patient into the ambulance,
but we were directed to move farther away before they
had given me any disposition on where they were going.
     Q.   Right.  Okay.  You said the best you
remember, Chief Villani arrived after the second plane
had attacked, but prior to the collapses?
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J. NEVINS
     A.   Right.  It was very close to the collapse of
the first tower.  Approximately 10, 15 minutes, because
we hadn't even -- I hadn't given him the full report on
the ambulances that were in the staging location and
what resources were available and patients were being
treated.
     Q.   Any thoughts or comments on the situation?
     A.   Not really.  Very chaotic scene.  I think we
did the best we could given the situation and then, you
know, the ensuing -- once the tower started to
collapse, we were -- we did the best we could.
          Actually, one thing that just thinking about
it now sticks in my mind.  The MERV driver should be
commended.  He went back and -- I have a clear mental
picture of the MERV with both ramps hanging out, going
around the corner from Vesey on to North End.  But the
guy went back, definitely, probably the farthest down
the block to save the MERV to get it out of there, get
it away from the collapse.
     Q.   The MERV was I assume from Bellevue?
     A.   Yes, that was MERV 1 from Bellevue.
     Q.   Is anything else you would like to add?
     A.   I think that's it.
          MR. RADENBERG:  Okay.  Time is now 1445
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               J. NEVINS
hours.  The interview is concluded.
12
File No. 9110107
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       CAPTAIN JOHN KEVIN CULLEY
   Interview Date:  October 17, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
                 J. KEVIN CULLEY
          MR. CUNDARI:  Today's date is October 17th,
2001.  The time is 1135 hours.  I am George Cundari
with Richard Dun of the Fire Department, City of New
York.  I am conducting an interview with the following
individual:
     Q.   Please state your name, rank, title and
assigned command.
     A.   My name is John Kevin Culley.  I go by my
middle name, Kevin.  My rank is Captain.  I have been
assigned to the Office of Emergency Management since
1997.
     Q.   Regarding the events of September 11th, 2001,
can you tell us what happened that day and where you
were?
     A.   In my capacity at OEM, my assigned tour
begins at 0600 hours and my work area is 7 World Trade
Center, 23rd floor.  I arrived at 0600 and I found
myself on the lobby of that floor, the third-floor
lobby of that floor, when the first plane hit the north
side of 1 World Trade Center.
          From the lobby we saw debris falling from
above.  We could not actually see the impact due to the
view.  When the debris stopped falling, I left the
third-floor lobby, ran out onto the street, looked up,
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                 J. KEVIN CULLEY
saw fire showing out of two, three floors, on two sides
of the building, the north face and the east face of
the building.  There was no sign that it was a plane,
at least not to me.
          I ran to my car, which was parked on Barclay,
picked up radios, and crossed over into the plaza, into
the -- what's that called?  Anyway, the passageway that
brings you to the PATH trains under the Trade Center.
     Q.   Concourse.
     A.   Concourse.  We sort of assisted people coming
off the trains.  The Port Authority Police were
directing everybody out of the building.
     Q.   Were there any apparatuses arriving yet?
     A.   No.  I have no memory of apparatus on Vesey
Street.  I passed the concourse and then grouped with
others at the lobby, the fire command station at the
lobby of 1 World Trade Center.  In my capacity as an
OEM coordinator, I reported in to the incident
commander, which was the 1st Division, at that time it
was Chief Hayden, and in that capacity what I'm
supposed to do is liaison to any agencies other than
Fire with the incident commander.  So at that scene you
had Port Authority, you had some other federal
agencies, FBI is one that I recall, and you also had
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                 J. KEVIN CULLEY
your building -- the World Trade Center Fire Safety
Director and his staff, and the Chief starting setting
up for high-rise operations in that lobby.
     Q.   This is in the north tower?
     A.   This is in the north tower, 1 World Trade
Center.  The fire command station is located on the
north face, the north wall of that lobby.
     Q.   What were you seeing in the lobby as you got
there?
     A.   In the lobby, all the usual people, the 1st
Division, 1st Battalion, reporting in units, I can't
remember specifically, the Fire Safety Director, who I
recognized, FBI agents, people on the staff, building
staff, particularly people that were involved with
helping us read the elevator panels.
          Our first thought, normal high-rise operation
is you want to get people up to the floors, the fire
floors.  That's normally done on elevators and we had a
problem.  There were no elevators in operation.  What
made it more of a problem is that all those elevators
were shut down and there were people in them.  So we
were actually -- once I had staff that could operate
the panel, they could speak to each individual
elevator, ask how many people are in the elevator, what
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                 J. KEVIN CULLEY
floor they were on, and if there's anyone injured, and
I was passing that information on to the incident
commander.
     Q.   Can you describe what you visually were
seeing around, like outside or on the concourse?
     A.   On the concourse?  I don't remember on the
concourse.  In the lobby?  As I said, the usual people
that would show up.  I saw at least three chaplains
there.
     Q.   Was there a lot of debris falling at the
time?
     A.    Once the plane hit, there was no debris, or
it fell.  What we did have coming out of the building
were people.  We were closer to the west entrance to
the 1 World Trade Center.  A lot of the glass had been
taken out upon the impact of the plane.  So we could
actually hear outside, but what you heard were the
thumps and crashes of the bodies.
          Also, I'd note that, once I arrived at the
fire command station, I was told by someone who had
actually witnessed the plane hitting it that it was
indeed a plane.  Up until that point, I thought it was
a bomb.
     Q.   So you continued the operations?
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                 J. KEVIN CULLEY
     A.   Continuing operations, obviously, this was
going to be difficult.  We had no elevators.  The only
report that I remember was that somebody I believe in
the FBI had a telephone conversation with somebody on
the 51st floor reporting that there's jet fuel on that
floor.  It wasn't clear to us exactly what floor the
impact was on, but I knew it was higher than that.
          We were still working on trying to find maybe
there would be freight elevators or any kind of
elevator that's working.  Are all of the elevators out
due to the incident or are some just maintenance
problems that we may be able to get moving?  That
wasn't happening for us.
          What else did we see?  I'm trying to think of
things.
     Q.   Were a lot of civilians in the lobby coming
by as you were in there, coming out of the building?
     A.   A lot?  No, I wouldn't say a lot.  There were
a lot of people responding.   This was, I understood,
as I found out later, it was a third alarm right away.
So we had a lot of Fire personnel and anybody else that
usually shows up, emergency personnel, in the lobby.
          I did suggest -- I remember bringing it to
the attention of the Port Authority Police there that
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this was most likely a terrorist attack and to look for
a secondary event.  I was concerned about the safety of
the people actually at the command post.  So what we
wanted to do was provide security in front of the lobby
so that something couldn't happen to us.  I don't know
if any of that actually took place, but I know I made
note of it.
     Q.   Was there a lot of chaos and confusion with
civilians trying to exit?
     A.   No, not that I recall.  The lobby is huge and
there's a lot of exits to it.  Now, I came in from the
concourse and I don't recall having a problem entering
with all the people exiting.  It was not an issue.  I
do remember civilians in the area exiting, but never
like masses of people that were clogging things.
     Q.   Were there any communications at that point;
radios still working?
     A.   The radio that I carry is an 800 megahertz
connected to the OEM channels.  I was transmitting and
receiving.  All the Fire Department radios that I was
aware of were transmitting, you know, you could hear
all the conversations going on.  We did hear the
jumpers jumping.
          So that brings us up, you know, the next key
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point is when the next plane comes.  We heard the
engines of the plane.  I heard the engines of the
plane.
     Q.   The second plane?
     A.   The second plane.  You heard this thump and
the rain of debris coming down.  Then it became clear
to anybody that may have had a question about what's
going on here, it was pretty clear then that these
weren't accidents.  It was also clear then that there
wasn't any control of that building, no elevators,
communications above.  Except for that one conversation
on the 51st floor, as far as I know, there were no
other conversations.  That doesn't mean I knew
everything.  We did have conversations with people
stuck on elevators and that was it.
          The second plane hits.  Now we have -- I was
told later.  I didn't know this at the time.  People
had left the north tower to go to the south tower, you
know, command people.  Also, at that time, I'm pretty
sure that prior to the second plane hitting, there was
discussion as to moving the command post out of the
lobby.  Personnel, a lot of personnel, staff personnel,
were moving out onto West Street.  Certainly after the
second plane hit, that was being done.  A lot of people
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were going out on West Street.  I stayed, though, in
the tower.
     Q.   At that point, other Chiefs were arriving?
And did Giuliani make it?
     A.   I know that after the second plane hit,
sometime before the south tower fell, we had word that
Giuliani was going to be arriving.  So we were pretty
aware that he was going to be coming.  He never did
come into the north tower.  I actually spoke with him
later.  I know that he got onto West Street.  I think
he said he spoke to Ganci and then left and was two
blocks away when the tower came down.
     Q.   At that time you were still in the north
tower?
     A.   I was still in the north tower.  But if my
memory serves me correctly, we had a lot of high Chiefs
now.  Now you're starting to see staff Chiefs.  Some
are with us and some had moved out onto West Street or
had moved to the other tower.  I'm not sitting there
logging who's going where.  All my concentration is
with the staff of the building and the 1st Division.
     Q.   The first building came down.  What was the
operation line?  What was going on?
     A.   Nothing really had changed.  Like I said, all
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the elevators were still stuck.  I think there were
elevators that were on the first floor, the doors
closed.  Not that I saw it.  I looked at the panel and
realized that some of these stuck elevators are right
here on the lobby floor and people were assigned to go
take care of that.
          The second tower gets hit.  What else was
going on there?
     Q.   When the first tower came down, did people
run back into the north tower to escape some of the
debris falling?
     A.   Okay.   I can only say what I saw.
     Q.   That's what we want.
     A.   I haven't seen any of the TV.  So I know that
the tower doesn't come down instantly.  It starts
coming down.  What we saw or heard was all the material
falling, all the debris falling, like when the plane
hit, debris fell.  We hear the debris falling and it's
coming through the windows on the south side of the
north tower, and then we started hearing this noise,
this roaring noise.  When that was apparent, the group
that I was with -- again, I was on the north wall of
the north tower.
     Q.   Northwest wall.
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     A.   We found an opening and ran what I thought
was directly down a set of stairs.  I found out later
we actually were in a hallway for a while and then
ducked into some stairs.  My belief is that we actually
ran out of the building enclosed.  The stairwell we
were in was probably inside of 6 World Trade.
     Q.   You knew the building was coming down?
     A.   No.   We were reacting.  There was no logical
thought.  You were reacting to the noise.  The noise
was getting louder and louder.  It was like a jet
engine or a train coming at you.  So we just ran and
ducked.   Then you got the debris cloud.  We were with
the chaplain, Chaplain Judge.
          When the debris had cleared -- the noise
stopped and we were covered in dust.  You couldn't
see.  It was actually black.  Flashlights pop out.
We're asking one another, are you all right?  Are you
all right?  Everybody's saying they're all right.  But
if you're not all right and you can't talk, you're not
saying that.
          We stumbled upon Judge.  He had no pulse.
One of the Chiefs just said we're not going to leave
him here.  We just picked him up and went up the stairs
we came down.  I can't tell you how we got outside.  It
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was still dark.  We ended up in front of-- we ended up
on the west face of 6 World Trade Center, which happens
to be up on a pedestrian walkway which is like three
stories up.  We had no way to get down.
          So we were still carrying the chaplain.  We
come around on the Vesey side of this pedestrian
walkway.  You really couldn't see more than about 60
feet in front of you at best.  So I sort of ran ahead
of the group to see if we could get over any
obstructions, and if it became a dead end, we were
going to have to turn around.  So that's what I was
doing.
          We got to the end of 6 World Trade, there's a
gap between 6 and 5.  We really didn't know what had
happened.  We heard all this noise, but we didn't know
what actually happened.   There was a lot of debris out
there.  It was unclear.  I looked to where 2 World
Trade -- the south tower was.  You really couldn't see
through it.  I figured it was a dangerous area.  We
were going to have to run this gap between 6 and 5.  It
didn't seem like anything was happening.
          We took Judge's body in a chair and we ran
across that gap.  We went down the escalator stairs
right there and that gets us down onto the street.  Now
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we can get away from the building.
     Q.   Were the radios still working at that time
that you can remember?
     A.   I wasn't carrying a firefighter radio.  I was
only carrying an 800 megahertz radio.  I don't recall
transmitting anything.
Q. Okay.
     A.   We get to the corner of Vesey and Church.  We
turn over Judge's body to some EMTs.  I ran into two
federal officers, I always think they're FBI, but
there's a lot of federal badges, and they said they
were going to be setting up -- or somebody had notice
that there was going to be a command center set up on
either Park Place or Murray, one of those streets just
north of the area, and that's where I would normally be
assigned.  So I started walking north up Church Street
when the other tower fell.
          So I heard that noise.  I really thought it
was the south tower.  I didn't know what had happened.
I thought that might fall right down Church Street.  So
I ducked down Murray, I think, and when you could
actually see there was a debris cloud coming, I broke
into an OTB thing and ducked out of the way.
     Q.   Did you see a lot of injured members on your
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way running?
     A.   Well, we were carrying Judge out.  It was
pretty obvious, debris everywhere.
     Q.   Right.  I know.  But like --
     A.   People were helping other people.  I have to
say, either I blocked out or I didn't see -- I don't
remember seeing any bodies or body guts or anything
like that.
     Q.   All right.  You were just looking to see --
     A.   But I know people were scurrying inside, you
know, looking under things.
          Okay.  That building falls.  Then you get the
second debris cloud.  I leave the building.  I start
walking -- actually, I started walking east and I
noticed that I was coming on to City Hall and, in fact,
in my mind, now that I'm making really my first logical
thought, I said, well, we just got hit with two
planes.  Two is enough.  I looked at City Hall and said
I'm not going there.  I turned west.  I'm still looking
for this command post that never got set up.
          I got about halfway down toward -- past
Church toward West Broadway and I couldn't see any
more.  There was a bar open.  I went into the bar and
had somebody wash my eyes out.  It cleared up.  I
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actually made a phone call to a friend to tell him I
was alive.  I left, found myself back on West Street
and Vesey, and I ran into the 1st Division again and we
just started going to work and now it was rescue and
recovery.
     Q.   Your vehicle, when you arrived, where did you
leave your vehicle?
     A.   I never used my vehicle.  I went around to
get my radio out of the car.  It was parked on Barclay.
     Q.   So the vehicle stayed on Barclay?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   The vehicle was recovered?
     A.   I recovered it later.
     Q.   So with the secondary collapse, the only
persons with you were FBI agents?  Were there any Fire
Chiefs?
     A.   No.  I was with a group.  When we carried
Judge's body out, I was with the 1st Division, a couple
of Port Authority cops, one of the aides, one of the
firemen.  I couldn't tell you who else.  I remember
another OEM fellow who I had met on the way down.
     Q.   Is he a firefighter?  Is he Fire Department
personnel?
     A.   He was an EMT that works in OEM.  When I get
15
                 J. KEVIN CULLEY
back to West and Vesey, I run into Chief Hayden, 1st
Division.  I don't know why, but he decided he was
going to work at Liberty and West, which meant we had
to get around the World Financial Center and come up
from behind there and walk at that point.  He probably
had that in mind because he has Fire Department radios
and there were calls made in that area.
Q. Oh, okay.
     A.   The one call that I'm familiar with is that
Al Fuentes, Captain Fuentes, who was working in the
Marine Company, was trapped on West Street, because we
ended up right in front of that area.
          So at this time, again, I don't see any
bodies or body parts.  What I'm seeing is everybody
coming out from cover.
Q. Okay.
     A.   I helped the Chief get on top of a vehicle.
He got on top of one of the squad apparatus so he could
give direction to the crews that were going out and
trying to recover.
     Q.   Did you see a lot of apparatuses on West
Street when you were there?
     A.   Oh, yes.
     Q.   Were they buried or were they in working
16
                 J. KEVIN CULLEY
condition?
     A.   Everything looked terrible.  I mean, the rig
we were on was half buried, but we knew we had a
surface on the top that we could stand on.  I know it
was one of the squad vehicles.
Q. Oh, okay.
     A.   After that, it's just directing people doing
digging.  But I'll tell you one thing.  One of the
Rescue 1 firefighters recognized me as being an OEM and
he said basically that there's a U.S.A.R. cache from
the New York City team located in Queens, and I
transmitted that, I put in a request for that through
our people, and I found out -- it took me two weeks to
find this out, but that call did deliver the material.
     Q.   Oh, okay.  Excellent.
     A.   If I did nothing else that day, I got that
out.
          MR. CUNDARI:  Okay.  Thank you, Captain, for
the interview.  The time is now 11:55.  This concludes
the interview.
17
File No. 9110108
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
           EMT SAMUEL HARRIS
   Interview Date:  October 17, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
S. HARRIS 2
          MR. FEILER:  Today's date is October
     17th, 2001.  The time now is 1025 hours.
     This is Monty Feiler of the Fire Department
     of the City of New York.  I'm conducting an
     interview with the following individual.
          Please state your name, rank and
     assigned area.
          EMT HARRIS:  My name is Samuel D.
     Harris.  I'm an EMT.  I work in the Bureau
     of Communications.
          MR. FEILER:  Fire Department of the
     City of New York.  We're conducting the
     interview at a conference room within
     investigations and trials, and the interview
     is regarding the events of September 11th,
     2001.
     Q.   If you can go ahead, sir.
     A.   I reported for work at 7 a.m. on
September 11th.  Most of the morning was pretty
routine up until the first reports of the
airliner hitting the World Trade Center.
          About that time I was getting some
coffee.  I noticed that people who were in
operations, which is adjacent to communications,
S. HARRIS 3
were scrambling.  I didn't know why.  They were
running into FOC I guess to -- at first thoughts
I thought that somebody had went down ill in FOC
the way people were running and moving.  But then
when I noticed that nobody was really calling for
any ambulances or bus, I noticed it had to be
something more.
          As I got more to my desk, I noticed
people started talking about looking through the
window, look out the window.  At that point,
still at my desk, curious as to what's going on,
I was approached by Commissioner Gregory, who
stated to Captain Pinkus that a plane had struck
the twin towers.  So that probably was around
8:50, around that time.  He then instructed me,
Captain D'Amato and Captain Jace Pinkus, and we
got into his vehicle and we headed toward
Manhattan.
          Coming across the Brooklyn Bridge, you
can see that the tower was just engulfed.  Tower
one was engulfed.  As I got across the bridge and
I got to West and Vesey, right at what is now
considered ground zero -- I was literally right
at the corner -- I then was instructed to move my
S. HARRIS 4
car, move the commissioner's car, further up
Vesey toward North End Avenue.  But I wasn't able
to get up that far because police officers were
cutting that block off.
     Q.   You had originally stopped at West and
Vesey?
     A.   West and Vesey Streets.
          At that time I was still in contact
with Captain Pinkus.  I had lost sight of
Commissioner Gregory and Captain D'Amato.  As I
went to park the car, they scrambled to whatever
other areas they proceeded to.
          I met back up with Captain Pinkus, and
we went back to West Street, where we met up with
Chief Gombo, the assistant chief of EMS
operations, and Lieutenant Ross Terranova.  I was
assigned to Lieutenant Terranova to kind of keep
a record of what was going on.
          At that point Captain Pinkus was
detailed to do something else with vehicle
operations with staging.  Chief Gombo, myself and
Ross Terranova, we went into what was the
operation command post at that time.  It was in
One World Trade Center in the foyer basement
area.
S. HARRIS 5
          At that time there were numerous people
in there, people from the World Trade Center,
people from OEM, people from all over, Port
Authority, firemen, EMTs, the Fire commissioner,
the first deputy, Commissioner Tierney.  You
couldn't count how many people that were probably
just like right there in that foyer.
          I believe at that point after some
preliminary instructions were made, I noticed
that people were going upstairs.  They were
shutting down elevators and just trying to move
people expeditiously out of the building.
Sometime after that, maybe 20 minutes, I don't
even think it was, I believe the decision was
made that we should pull back to across the
street.
          Without getting into great detail, it
was very graphic some of the scenery that you saw
just even walking into the building.  But we made
the decision -- they made the decision, I should
say, to go across the street.  As we did, we were
on West, which would probably be the World
Financial Center or American Express because
S. HARRIS 6
they're so closely together.
          Everybody was basically standing in the
garage area.  It has a two-door garage in this
area at the corner.  At that point everybody was
making operations.  Chief Gombo instructed me to
go inside the building and contact Chief Diggs
about point-to-point operations and
communications so that they can have a whole line
that was set up or dedicated that people can talk
point to point without any interference.
          As I followed that direction, as I
started to go into the building, I heard on the
radio that what I was instructed to do was
already done, primarily.  You could hear it over
the command frequency that it was already being
done.  But just to follow those orders that were
given to me, I went ahead inside the building.  I
proceeded to make this phone call.
          As I got through to Chief Diggs, I
believe I remember seeing Commissioner
Fitzpatrick in there for a brief minute.  I
believe he walked out.  At that point I spoke to
Chief Diggs.  I got direction from him.  He gave
me direction to relay back to Chief Gombo.
S. HARRIS 7
          As I related back to Chief Gombo -- or
I was getting ready to walk out and tell Chief
Gombo what I was told, that's when tower one
started to pancake and collapse.  The only thing
that I remember was the guy in front of me who
was standing there in awe of just the earthquake
feel, for myself as well.
          I had grabbed him because I didn't know
if we were going to walk out of that building.
The glass was shattering around us.  We were in
the big foyer.  The building that we were in was
primarily glass doored, and so was the area that
you had to go in to use the phone, which was
sectioned off.
          As I grabbed him and we ran back
inside, some gentleman -- I believe he worked for
the building.  I don't recall his name.  I
believe this gentleman worked in the building, in
that particular building.  He was one of seven
people that were in the building with me after
One started to crumble.
          As we ran down the foyer or down the
hallway, at that point it was so dark and so
thick and the lights went right away that you
S. HARRIS 8
couldn't even see your hand before your face.  As
you turn back to just look down the corridor, you
couldn't even see the corridor that you just ran
down.  That's how dark it was.  That's how eerie
it was.  That's how very scared I believe of us
were keep down.  But we all kept cool heads.  We
all stayed together.  We were looking for another
exit, and there weren't any.
     Q.   Who was in that group with you?
     A.   Now with me there was a paramedic.  I
believe I learned his last -- what's the name?
Glenn.  He was in there with me.  There were two
New York City detectives in there with me and the
building manager for that building, and the rest
were just office workers.  There were no other
people left.
          The two detectives basically -- we
coordinated and I was trying to tell them that
the building came down.  He thought I was being
kind of nervous.  I told him, yes, I am, but I'm
not all that nervous.  I just wanted to make sure
that we were all alive, that that big building
was not going to cave in on this little building
and we were going to get crushed, because who
knew.
S. HARRIS 9
          After we made several attempts to look
for other exits out of the building outside of
the front door, there were no other exits.  What
we did was the building manager took us into what
seemed like a computer room or a security room,
and he found some flashlights.
          The decision was made for us to wait
for a period of time, probably I'd say we waited
a whole hour, maybe more before we could even see
anything.  There was that much dust and smoke,
and you couldn't really breathe.
          So we waited until some of the dust
settled, and then we all -- two people would go
ahead and check to see if we can go out the front
door.  If there was no access way from the front
door, we would wait until somebody came and
eventually got us.  But we would all stay
together.
          So what we did was we formed a line.
We grabbed each other's belts, and we shined the
flashlights.  We didn't go up to a certain point,
and the two men went ahead.  They noticed that
there was an exit way for us to get out.  Thank
S. HARRIS 10
God.
went in, which is probably the World Financial
building, World Financial Center building,
because this would be the garage area right here.
In the first rehaps I believed it was the
American Express building, only because it was so
closely related.
          After we came out of the building, I
immediately went to the garage area.  The garage
area where there were hundreds of people standing
there when I left to make this phone call, there
was about 25 firemen.
          At that point I ran into Chief
Kowalczyk's aide, and I was asking him where was
his boss.  He said he didn't know, and he had no
clue as to where he was.  He was with Chief Gombo
and several of the others before I walked into
the building to make the phone call.
          Outside of that, the field comm. truck,
the van truck was crushed.  The guard shack that
stands between the two doors in the garage was
     After we came out --
Q.   Where did you come out of?
A.   I came right out the front door that I
S. HARRIS 11
crushed.  It looked almost like the two garage
doors were blown open.  Debris was everywhere:
metal, paper, dust.
          At that point after staying there for
I'd say 20 minutes trying to find somebody I
know, I ran into Captain Sickles, Howard Sickles,
and I noticed that he was standing toward the
curb or what would have been the curb.  He was
trying to give a progress report.
          I was trying to persuade him to let's
move out, to let's get out of this area, for fear
of whatever is going to happen again.
     Q.   Where was that located?
     A.   That was at the beginning of this
building at probably West Street.  So we're
facing West at this point.
Q. On Vesey?
     A.   I'm sorry, Vesey.  We're facing Vesey
at this point.  He's at the corner, and I'm
trying to get him to let's go up Vesey toward
North End.  Let's go further up to get away from
the aftermath.
          At that point as I was trying to
persuade him, I did see at that point Chief
S. HARRIS 12
Ganci.  Chief Ganci was trying to rally some of
the firefighters that were in the area to also
move up toward North End, to move out of the
area.
          As he was doing that, I was still
trying to persuade Captain Sickles to give the 12
and make it brief but let's go.  He continued on
the radio to the point where I just grabbed him
by the arm and was pulling him, let's go, let's
get out of here.
          There was a firefighter at the corner
of Vesey and North End when we walked up to North
End, and he said that this was really bad.  I
said, "Yes, it is.  How could something like this
happen."  I said, "Well, listen, what we should
do is move because the north tower is on fire
still.  I said, "We don't know if this one is
going to come down, so let's move out of the
area."
          At that point police officers and other
people were trying to move people up North End
Avenue to get them away from -- or more so up
Vesey toward North End.
          At that point as I was walking up, I
S. HARRIS 13
approached where the commissioner's car was, and
that's when you heard the rumble again and the
other tower started to come down.  At that point
my thought was to try to move the commissioner's
car, and right behind me unbeknownst to me was
Lieutenant Ross Terranova, who told me, "Forget
it.  Just go.  Let's go," and we all started
running, with Captain Sickles behind us.
          We ran into North End Avenue, and right
in the back of North End Avenue at the corner off
to the right was where the MERV was.  There's a
building of some sort there like a hotel or like
a coffee shop right on the corner where the MERV
was parked.  We all ran inside there.
          At that point right behind us about 20
people -- two police officers were badly hurt.
They probably got hit with some type of rubble,
and they rushed them up that way.  There were a
few civilians.  The LSU unit was there, and me
and a couple other EMTs just started trying to
bandage who was there and treat who was there.
          At that point I was reunited with
Captain Pinkus again at that point and some of
the other EMS chiefs:  Chief Basile, Chief
S. HARRIS 14
Carrasquillo, Chief Gombo, at that point -- I did
see him for a brief minute -- Chief Pascale.
          At that point after that area was made
for a treatment area for people who were coming
in, everybody was being taken care of.  Everybody
was given water to flush their eyes and to give
them some sort of first aid, some sort of
comfort, given what they just went through.
          At that point about an hour or so, hour
and a half after that, me, Captain Pinkus and
Chief Pascale proceeded to go to Chelsea Pier,
where we stayed basically for the rest of the
duration of the evening into the morning.
     Q.   Were you aware that a second plane had
hit one of the towers?
     A.   Yes.  I believe the second plane hit
just shortly after probably coming off the
Brooklyn Bridge.  I didn't really realize it
until after, because I believe you felt like the
bridge shift as I was coming over, and I never
felt it that way.  You didn't realize it.  My
whole modem was just to get across this bridge,
get to West and Vesey.
     Q.   What frequency were you utilizing?
S. HARRIS 15
     A.   At the time I was on the command
frequency.
     Q.   EMS command?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   And were you given any specific
locations where to go to; do you recall?
     A.   No, not until -- no, because when I got
to Lieutenant Terranova, basically they were
still in the process of setting up staging areas.
I believe that the staging area switched quite a
few times in the time that I was with him before
one had collapsed.
          So the decision was trying to put
people in areas of safety but the greater number
of where we can get the most resources available
without anybody.
     Q.   You said you had seen Chief Kowalczyk's
aide.  Do you know who that was?
     A.   I don't know his name offhand.  I know
him by face.  I didn't know his name.
     Q.   Was there any other EMS people that you
saw, firefighters, chiefs, anybody that you
recognized?
     A.   Not so much out of the firefighters.
S. HARRIS 16
But like the paramedic, I didn't know him until
afterwards.  We talked later.
     Q.   What was his name?
     A.   Glenn, Mike Glenn.
          Basically it was Chief Gombo, Chief
Basile, Chief Pascale, Chief Hannafey, Chief
Carrasquillo, Chief Scibelli, I saw later in the
evening.  But most of those -- Alan Cruz on the
ALS unit from Manhattan.  The MERV driver I knew
from 13.  I didn't really know his name, but I
recall him being.  Sedley, Sedley was another LSU
driver from Brooklyn.  He was there.  I remember
seeing him.
          There was just so many people.  Linda
McCarthy from EMD.  She was there.  There was
just so many people that I crossed paths with,
but then as you're trying to focus on just the
task at hand, I was just -- basically coming out
of the building after the first collapse, I was
nervous for everybody that was standing out there
because if it wasn't for Chief Gombo, I mean, I
would have been out there too instead of inside.
          I don't know.  I really don't know, if
Chief Gombo would have not sent me in that
S. HARRIS 17
building, I thought we would have been amongst
them.  I'm glad and relieved to see that he
wasn't hurt or injured during the aftermath.
          I lost sight of Commissioner Gregory.
I didn't see him.  I didn't hear of him until
like at least the next day.  Also Captain
D'Amato, I didn't hear his whereabouts or how he
was.
          Once I got to Chelsea Pier, Chief
Pascale assigned me with Captain Boyle, Jack
Boyle, and I was assigned with him for a good
many hours.  We stayed a good 12, maybe 13 hours
together, driving people back and forth, the
doctors, setting up the doctors and the triage
and the temporary morgue that was all down at
Chelsea Pier.
          I was able to focus on the task
basically that was given to me.  It was just hard
to forget.  Every few minutes you thought about
somebody you knew back there that you didn't hear
was okay.  Chief McCracken, for that matter, for
a long time, until I got to see him later on in
the night.
          I didn't hear the passing of the first
S. HARRIS 18
deputy commissioner until later on, and also
Chief Ganci, who I had just saw at that building.
I believe once I started to make my move up Vesey
more toward North End Avenue, I believe they made
probably the decision to see what was going to
happen in tower two.
          It was my thought that that's where
they were fatally taken away from us at that
point, that maybe they went down to building two,
which is probable because I didn't see them after
that.
     Q.   Is there anything else you would like
to before we conclude?
     A.   No, without really getting into some of
the graphical details, that was pretty much as
accurately as I can come to say what happened.
     Q.   Thank you very much for participating
in the interview.
     A.   You're welcome.
          MR. FEILER:  The time now is 1052
     hours, and this concludes the interview.
File No. 9110110
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
 FIREFIGHTER MAUREEN MC ARDLE-SCHULMAN
 Interview Date:  October 17, 2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
                                                 2
          MR. CASTORINA:  The time now is 1205.
     We are conducting an interview.  We are at
     Engine 35.  My name is Ron Castorina.  Your
     name?
          MR. MC COURT:  Tom McCourt.
          MR. CASTORINA:  And your name, ma'am?
     A.   Maureen McArdle-Schulman.
     Q.   Could you tell me what your assignment is,
and your rank?
     A.   Assigned to Engine 35.  I'm a firefighter
first grade.
     Q.   On September 11, 2001, can you tell me on
that particular day what the events were, what you
can remember?
     A.   I came in to work for a roster staff tour.
Usually on roster staffing you're detailed out if
your company doesn't need you.
     I was assigned to 91 Engine.  I was in our
quarters when the first plane hit.  We weren't sure
if it was a small plane, a big plane.
     So I was in the firehouse when the first plane
hit.  I had the detail out of the house to 91 Engine
and I had just got into my car and left.  I got into
my car and went over to 91 Engine.  I parked on the
McArdle-Schulman
                                                 3
side street on 111th Street, walked into the
quarters.  I had all my gear in my arms and the
announcement came over that it was a fifth alarm and
91 Engine was responding.  It's unusual.  It usually
comes over the computer.  It came over the
loudspeaker.
     I happened to have my cell phone in my hand,
that God.  I stuck it in my turnout coat pocket.  I
got on the rig and responded to the World Trade
Center.  We ended up going through 112th Street,
down to Central Park South.  We came out of the park
and we ran into all the other rigs.  They were all
responding.  Police cars, unmarked cars.  It was
like a big caravan down there.
     We parked on West Street.  You know, basically
we were all in line.  Whoever was in front of us
parked in front of us, we parked behind them.  We
were on the wrong side of West Street facing the
towers.  So the windshield was that way so we were
on the wrong side of the street.  We got out of the
rig, got our stuff, carried cylinders, roll-ups,
standpipe kit, all our gear, started huffing down
West Street.  I was a little slower than the rest of
them.
McArdle-Schulman
                                                 4
     Q.   Where were you going?  Heading on what
street?
     A.   Heading -- West Street, towards the
towers.
     Q.   At this point did the first collapse
occur?
     A.   No, no collapses.  The second plane had
hit.
     Q.   So you just saw the two towers burning?
     A.   Burning.  We went to the command center,
the lieutenant reported in.  There was already 75 to
100 firefighters standing in this parking garage, at
the entrance, waiting for assignments.
     Companies were coming out, companies were going
in for relief.  Somebody yelled something was
falling.  We didn't know if it was part of an
airplane coming out, if it was desks coming out.  It
turned out it was people and they started coming out
one after another.
     Q.   You saw the jumpers?
     A.   We saw the jumpers coming.  We didn't know
what it was at first, but then the first body hit
and then after that we knew what it was.  And they
were just like constant --
McArdle-Schulman
                                                 5
     We were lucky most of them hit the set back,
they weren't landing on the ground.
     Q.   How far were you from where they were
jumping at this point?
     A.   I didn't see anyone landing on the ground
in front of us.  Most of them were hitting the set
back.  I'm still across the street in the parking
lot.  Me and another guy from 91 just -- I was
getting sick.  I felt like I was intruding on a
sacrament.  They were choosing to die and I was
watching them and shouldn't have been so me and
another guy turned away and looked at the wall and
we could still hear them hit.
     The Lieutenant came up to us and said, "We're
going in."  So we all got our gloves and Scotts back
on and went up to the part by the command center,
and they said, "We need forcible entry tools."  In
an engine we don't carry anything but our hose, we
have standpipe kits.  We had things that we thought
we would need.  They were sending us to Tower 2,
sub-basement 6.
     So I called my husband on my cell phone.  I
said, "I'm going in.  This is where I'm going."  I
left a message on his machine.  He wasn't at his
McArdle-Schulman
                                                 6
desk at the time.  I was standing there and my
Captain, who was at the medical office who just had
surgery on his shoulder happened to be there.
     "What are you doing here?  You're on medical?"
     He said, "Nobody's on medical anymore.
Everybody's at the scene."
     Okay.  So my Captain and the
chauffeur from 91 volunteered to go back to 91 to
get us some tools we needed, because there was
nobody to let us into sub-basement 6 or anyplace
else.
     So they went to the left.  We're standing at
the command center, listening to everybody give
their positions.  You know, what stairway they were
using.  You know, escape stairway, rescue stairway.
Things like that or what floor they're on.  We're
hearing the whole thing where everybody is.
     Someone comes running over to the table and
said, "A firefighter was hit by a jumper.  He needs
last rites."  So a couple of guys went to the right
to give this guy last rites with Father Judge, I
guess.  I don't know who else ran over.  My Captain
and the chauffeur from 91 went to the left.  We're
standing there and we're looking up and we're trying
McArdle-Schulman
                                                 7
not to look at people jumping.  We really felt like
we were intruding on them.  And the building had red
fire, a ring of fire.  They started pumping and
bouncing and I'm standing there staring.  Finally
somebody yelled "run."  It took everybody out of
that trance we were in.  We ran back into the
garage.  Anybody that went to the right was killed.
People that went to the left were okay.
     Q.   Do you remember seeing anybody in
particular that ran that way?
     A.   No.
     Q.   You don't remember?
     A.   No.  I was just mesmerized, absolutely
mesmerized by this building.  I couldn't -- we
just -- it was like watching people jump.  You just
can't believe what you're seeing and you're just
standing there like idiots staring.
     And ran back into the garage -- I mean I didn't
run, because I was ahead of the pack.  By the time I
turned around, it was asses and elbows and I have a
really bad sense of direction.  That's why I stay in
the Engine.
     So I moved all the way over to the right and
there was a curb and I ran my foot along the curb.
McArdle-Schulman
                                                 8
I still had my roll-up on my shoulder, ran my foot
along the curb cause if I get turned around, I don't
want to keep walking in the same direction.  So I
just was walking along with this stuff on my
shoulder trying to stay away from the pack because I
didn't want to get killed by anybody running and the
thing -- I didn't actually watch it come down.  It
just came down behind me.  I was stuck inside the
garage and --
     Q.   That's while you were on the move?
     A.   Yeah.  I was just kind of walking and
feeling close with my foot.  I didn't want to get
lost.  And all I kept thinking was this is the
garage they blew up last time.  You know, you always
hear about secondary problems.
     So we got in there and pretty much everybody
started "Are you okay?  Are you okay?"  I was
feeling around the ground to see if anybody had
fallen and then some guy said, "I know how to get
out of here."  So by now I put my face piece on and
it was full of crap.  So I sucked in what I now find
is asbestos.  It was all in my eyes.  My eyes were
on fire.
     This guy says, "I know how to get out of here."
McArdle-Schulman
                                                 9
So we're all like holding on to eachother's shirt
sleeves and he leads us outside and the guy next to
us starts having an asthma attack.  So he says, "I
need your mask."  So I gave him my face piece and me
and someone else pulled in a police van with air
conditioning on.
     And we were outside and except for a piece of a
tree that I was standing next to 15 minutes before
that, I didn't know where outside was.  It was
complete black.  Everybody had 2 inches of soot on
them.  It was just you couldn't breathe.  You know,
we really couldn't breathe.
     So afterwards everybody seemed to calm down.  I
went back into the garage and I started calling for
my company that I was with.  The Lieutenant found me
and one of the guys from 91 found me.  We were still
missing one member.  The Lieutenant said, "Come on.
Let's get out of here."  They actually took me into
the parking garage and through the building and came
out like half a block away.  They said, "Go to the
rig and stay there."
     So I went back to the rig with the other guy,
the other firefighter.  I said, I got a find our
other guy.  So I went back to the rig, checked the
McArdle-Schulman
                                                10
rig.  The rig was still running.  Because that's
what they would do, is keep the rig running all the
time.  The lights were still on.  So I said to him,
kidding, I said, "Let's move the rig a little
further."  So he backed up a block and we're
standing there waiting for everybody to come.
Nobody is coming back and there were people
wandering all over.
     It was, you know, we all kind of started going
back towards grounds zero because we were missing
people.  We felt like you weren't doing anything
standing there.  And right now the sun was out and
all of a sudden you're hearing, there is a guy
dressed in army fatigues with automatic weapons
shooting people, that there is four more planes
missing.
     Q.   You're hearing all these rumors?
     A.   Yes, rumors.  There was a guy with a
little TV, like a civilian, hooked it up to a
building with an outlet.  He said, there is eight
planes all together and they only found four and,
you know, we're getting bomb scares on this building
and we're running for our lives.
     I said, "Where are we supposed to go?"  He
McArdle-Schulman
                  McArdle-Schulman
said, "Go by the water."
11
     Q.   And there is supposed to be a guy shooting
at you?
     A.   Yes.  "Go by the water at least there is
no building there."  I said, "But these buildings
are so big.  If they come down, it doesn't matter."
So we went running, not knowing where to go.  So
finally I get back to the rig and I said, "I got a
call my husband."  I just called him and told him I
was going in the tower.  The tower just imploded.
So finally I couldn't get a signal on my cell phone.
I found a pay phone.
     A guy gave me his calling card.  The pay phone,
he had used it two seconds before.  It didn't work
for me.  So finally I get a hold of my husband.  I
said, "I'm okay."  I must have been hysterical.  He
said, "Calm down.  Calm down."  I said, "I'm okay.
I made it.  I'm all right."  Then I called my
father, I have two brothers on the job.  So I called
my father to find out where my brothers were.  Both
of them already called.  I'm one of the few families
that lucked out.
     Then I went back to the rig again and we were
standing there, I'm standing there with this one
                                                12
firefighter.  We still don't have the Lieutenant
back.  We're still missing one member.  We're
standing there and I look up.  The second tower
starts with the ring of fire.  Some puffing and
bouncing.
     Q.   Just like the first one?
     A.   So he said, "It's going, just like the
first one."  So I ran to the back of the rig and got
on the back step.  I still have my gear on, I'm in a
fetal position.  I was afraid that if I got in the
rig that if anything came flying down the street it
would go through the windshield and kill me.  So I
figure I've got the whole rig in front of me.  The
hose bed is there.  Hopefully if I stay down low
enough -- he went and ran under a rig, got under a
rig and the second building came down.  The second
building came down.
     So the second building came down, I didn't see
him for a while.  Kind of like I saw him for two
seconds and he said, "I gotta find the rest of the
guys."  And I said, "You know, I'm gonna move the
rig again.  I'm a little too close."  So we actually
moved it with him.
     Q.   So when the second building came down did
McArdle-Schulman
                  McArdle-Schulman
all the rubble and the dirt --
13
     A.   Yes.  Came right down West Street.
     Q.   Right up to your rig?
     A.   Just the way -- just the way it shows in
the news.  That picture of this cloud coming down
the street.  That's exactly what happened.  So I
moved the rig another two blocks away and I turned
it around to not face the towers and the other guy
kind of saw some people he knew.  We still didn't
have a Lieutenant.  We were still missing one of the
guys from 91.  The chauffeur from 91 I heard they
had taken to the hospital.  He had chest pains.  I
saw my Captain after that.  I knew he was okay.  So
I was walking back and forth.  "How close should I
get."
     All of a sudden building number seven now has
twelve stories of fire and I ran into one of my
guys, from my company, and from there he told me
where the rest of my company was.  So I found the
rest of my company.  And they were in the parking
garage, which I didn't know when I saw it if it was
the parking garage I had been in earlier.
     He said he needed search rope.  So I found a
rig and I found a search rope and I told them to
                  McArdle-Schulman
search -- how far the rope went.
14
     So I, you know, I really didn't know what the
situation was and 35 Engine had lines on Tower 2. On
Tower 1 they were doing some searching and then they
pulled everybody out to get away from the scene.  So
we basically -- I found my Lieutenant, we finally
found the missing guy.  Everybody in my group was
okay.  Everybody was accounted for.  I told the
other Lieutenant, "I'm staying with my own company.
You guys are too all over the place for me.  I want
a company that stays together.  My company stays
together."
     So basically we went back to the rig and by now
the recalls were coming down.  The bus was stopping
right by the rig.  Everybody company that got off
the bus was taking whatever they could off our rig.
You know, tools, whatever.  So basically we're
standing there.  We didn't even have a Scott mask at
this point.  Everything is gone.
     Q.   How was your breathing?  Were you okay?
     A.   It was horrible.  I had my eyes cleaned
out about 12 times.
     Q.   Did you go to the hospital?
     A.   No.  Somebody left a baseball cap in the
                                                15
rig, so I grabbed that, because the sun was killing
my eyes.  I mean it took about a week and a half
before the --
     Q.   From the dirt.
     A.   Plus it didn't help.  I put the face piece
on and I sucked the air in and the whole thing was
full with whatever that was and all the crap went
into my eyes too.  Pretty much that's it.  You know,
we stayed at the rig the rest of the day, hung out,
got water when we could, found a bathroom I could
use, which was real important to me, and stayed down
and at 9:00 o'clock I finally we all started
wandering around and I went down to where the first
overpass is and I saw a Captain sitting at the
table.  And what happened was I heard one of the
other female firefighters on the radio and I wanted
to find her to find out -- some girlfriend of the
Captain of Engine 6 and I knew her company was the
first or second through there.  So I wanted to see
if anybody knew if she was working.  So I didn't
find --
     Q.   So you knew your brothers were okay.
     A.   I knew my two brothers were okay.  My
brother Kevin, he's in Squad 41.  He wasn't working
McArdle-Schulman
                                                16
so he was in on the recalls.  So anybody that came
in afterwards was pretty much all right.  It was
just the initial sign-ins.  And I passed his rig.
     Q.   Where does your other brother work?
     A.   In Queens.  I knew he wouldn't be there
unless he was on detail, from 84.  Again, I saw the
guy, the Captain I knew, he used to be a firefighter
on 42 Truck, Charlie, and he said to me, "Oh, my God
you're alive.  We have you as missing."  So I said,
"okay."
     What happened was there was a big communication
problem.  They kept calling my house from the
battalion to see if anybody heard from us.  Because
they didn't know who went down.  Because with the
recall, anybody who was here jumped on the rig.
Q. Right.
     A.   So everybody went.  So, you know, that's
why rescue companies lost 10, 12 guys.  At a quarter
to 9 they grabbed everybody they could and got on
the rigs.  Pretty much that's it.
          MR. CASTORINA:  Okay.  The time now is
     1220.  This concludes the interview.  Thank
     you.
McArdle-Schulman
File No. 9110111
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER THOMAS HANSARD
   Interview Date:  October 18, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
T. HANSARD 2
          MR. TAMBASCO:  Today is October 18th.
     I'm Mike Tambasco with the World Trade
     Center Task Force.  We're conducting an
     interview with Firefighter THOMAS HANSARD of
     Engine 209 at the quarters of Engine 209.
     The interview is beginning at 1438 hours.
     Q.   Tom, I just ask you to tell us your
story.
     A.   I was here at work, changing tours.
They said that an airplane hit the World Trade
Center.  We went up on the roof, because from the
roof you can see the World Trade.
     Q.   That's right.
     A.   We got up on the roof and saw the
explosion, not knowing that it was a second plane
hitting the World Trade Center.  As the explosion
came in, the box came in and we responded to the
World Trade Center.  I had the backup position on
the engine, and we went.
          We went over -- there was a little bit
of traffic on Park Avenue.  We got down to the
Brooklyn Bridge where we took it quickly, and
they had the Brooklyn Bridge wide open for us.
No cars, just us and police.
T. HANSARD 3
          We pulled over and we came across
Chambers Street.  We came straight down Trinity
and we stopped at the corner of Trinity and
Liberty, which 217 was parked right on this
corner and 230 was on this corner, and we stopped
on this corner.
          We got out and picked up our equipment,
our Scotts and extra air bottles and hose, and we
started to walk down Liberty Street towards --
     Q.   The World Trade Center?
     A.   -- the tower.
     Q.   So you were walking west.  Okay.
     A.   As we walked down to the tower, we went
to 10 and 10, thinking that that was the command
center.
     Q.   Okay.  Right.
     A.   It wasn't the command center.  They
told us to go down onto West Street, Liberty and
West, which was the command center.  So now we
walked down the block, and walking on this block
there were people waving at us and jumping.  We
walked through like body parts and all of this
stuff on the street, littered on the street.  We
passed a guy, Suhr, from 216, his helmet and his
T. HANSARD 4
stuff was down, and guys took him away.
          From there we came down to Washington.
Something was in the street there.  We cut up
Washington, and we went down Cedar, and then we
came back up West Street.
     Q.   You came back around up West.  Okay.
     A.   We were standing right here on this
corner, and the lieutenant from 219 was looking
for the command post.  We stopped right there
while he went to check in at the command post
when we were standing there.
          As we stood there, another member said,
"Let's move a little bit," because a lot of stuff
was falling on us.  We moved about 20 feet.  Once
we moved that 20 feet, the first tower came down.
     Q.   You were like right on West Street and
Liberty, right there?
     A.   We were like right here, West Street
and Liberty, and we ran across here to in front
of the building here, which was like One Federal
plaza.
     Q.   That's the one that the walkway goes
across to.
A. Yeah.
Q. Right.
T. HANSARD 5
     A.   The walkway, we were under it and like
over here.  I don't know where it is.  We just
ran across the highway or street or whatever it
is, and two guys ran into the revolving door but
it was locked.  I just stood up against the side
of the building, and I found a little corner in
front of the building, and the building came
down.
          It started coming down.  We ran just
there.  The building just came down.  I stood
there.  We didn't know what to do or whatever.
Then the next thing, the asbestos or whatever was
coming and you couldn't breathe, couldn't see.
          It just took forever before you could
do anything.  I don't know in time how long it
took or whatever.  But when it finally cleared, I
got up out of my little corner, and I heard a
cop's radio, which was right near me, and I dug
about a foot or 18 inches of cement, looking for
some cop underneath this.  I didn't find him; I
just found the radio.
     Q.   Just the radio.
     A.   I found two other guys, two guys that
T. HANSARD 6
were with me, Frank Dileo and Mike Minogue.  They
went into that revolving door, and the cop came
in and Frank took his night stick and busted the
window in order to get into the --
     Q.   Revolving door?
     A.   Yeah.  So they were good.  Then Todd
made it around the corner of that building.  I
didn't know he could run that fast.  It was
coming out so quickly.  It was just get as far as
you could.
          Now the four of us met up, and Frankie
was blind from --
     Q.   Dust and other stuff in his eyes?
     A.   I was half blind, and my eyes were all
blurry.  Todd, I don't know that he was okay.
          We regrouped, and we were going to the
tower now to look for survivors.  We didn't know
where our officer was or whatever that we were
looking for.  No sooner than we started, the
tower -- we regrouped like on this corner.
     Q.   Down by Albany Street.
     A.   Yeah.  We ended up going this way to
look for something.  I don't know why we ended up
over --
T. HANSARD 7
     Q.   Towards the water, westbound.
     A.   I think over here there was a bar over
there and there were people running all over the
place.
          We regrouped there.  Then it's like,
okay, we're going back to the building to look
for survivors.  As we were going back towards the
building, the second tower came down.  I just
stood there in shock.  We were further away from
the second tower.
          I sat there, and I couldn't believe
that I was watching this antenna come down.  Then
finally somebody just grabbed me, and I went back
into the building.  There's a bar over there.
Q. Right.
     A.   After that cleared up, however long
that took, then we went back, trying to get into
tower --
     Q.   The south tower?
     A.   Right.  And I ran into -- who was it?
Was it Cruthers?  Mike Cruthers?  I knew him from
like -- he didn't know who I was.  I was just
asking him what we could do, because being backup
I had no radio, I had no communication.  I didn't
T. HANSARD 8
know what was going on.
          We were going back towards there, and
all of the rigs now and the EMS and everything
was on fire.  People were running.  It was --
     Q.   Pandemonium?
     A.   Yeah.  We were trying to figure out
what to do.  Now I think where the hotel was --
     Q.   Right, where Three World Trade Center
was.
     A.   That was all down.  We were climbing
over the rubble.  We were trying to get -- from
there we were trying to get into the lobby and
climb over all this rubble and get into this
lobby, because there were reports that there were
firemen.
Q. Trapped.
     A.   -- trapped by some elevator bank.  When
we were going up there, there was fire burning.
I don't know if it was Liberty Street or what,
but you could see down maybe four floors to the
street.  You're climbing over the rubble, and
you're trying to get in place.
          We had no water pressure.  We had some
hose lines run.  There was no water pressure, and
T. HANSARD 9
we were just trying to put the fire out and make
a push.
          From there some squad guys and some
rescue guys came in, and they were taking over
after this report.  From there it was like just
trying to search for hours.  Finally I walked
away like hours later.  Time didn't really mean a
whole lot.
Q. Right.
     A.   I went and I was looking for my rig on
Trinity.  I ran into another guy that was on
light duty at Metrotech.  He came, and we walked,
looking -- we walked back up Cedar back to
Trinity, looking for our rig, and I didn't find
it.  And I was looking for the chauffeur.
          He left.  He was hurting.  I came back
to this section I think where Rescue 4 was.
     Q.   The north tower.
     A.   Yeah, in the middle somewhere.
     Q.   The middle.
     A.   I found our rig over there, like
right -- maybe it was back here.
     Q.   I've got you, right here, away from the
buildings on the other side of West.
T. HANSARD 10
     A.   I don't know how it got here and then
over to there.  But it was there, and it was
pumping to tower ladders and to hand lines from
the marine unit, which was over here somewhere.
          So since I'm the chauffeur, I just took
it over.
     Q.   Right.
     A.   You know, the guys -- you know we have
a new rig.  I pumped until like 1:30 that night.
The new rig has a computer throttle, and every
time we lost water it overcompensated for itself
and it started overheating.  Then everything was
clogged from --
     Q.   The soot and debris?
     A.   Yeah, the debris.  It started smoking
real bad.  The chief said take it out of there.
I took it out, and another rig took my spot.  I
just parked it over here.  There's like a walkway
back here.
          I drove the rig down like here and left
it here for a while.
     Q.   Like by that Merrill Lynch building,
around the back, closer to the water?
     A.   Yeah, because there were boats and a
T. HANSARD 11
walkway.  I left it there for a couple more
hours.
          I grouped up with all the guys from the
company, and we all were here just for a while,
because guys came in.  Everyone regroups and
(inaudible).  They were going in and out and
doing whatever.
          I had enough.  It was like 1:30.  I was
there from like 9:15 or 9:20 before the tower.  I
had enough.  They took the chauffeur away to the
hospital.  They took Frankie to the hospital.
They took Todd to the hospital.  So it was just
me and Mike left.
          So me and Mike got on the rig around
1:00, 1:30, and we brought it back to the
firehouse.  We had nothing.  All our hose was
taken off the rig, all the equipment.  You know,
guys just took whatever they could use.  When we
came here, we restocked the rig.
          From there, I called 230 and there were
guys that came in and were just hanging here.
They came over and --
     Q.   They got on your rig?
     A.   Yeah.  They helped me, because I was
T. HANSARD 12
worried about the overheating.  We washed out all
of the filters and whatever we could do when we
got it here to get it running better.  They were
going to help us ride, and we got the rig back in
service.
          The lieutenant from 230, he came in.  I
figured I'd let him be the boss.  We went back to
the dispatcher, and the dispatcher sent us back
out at about 5.  Then we went back at 5:00.  When
we went back again, it was just trying to search
and looking for people.
          I was pumping water -- at that time I
was the chauffeur, and we parked back like
Broadway.  There were rigs there.  We just parked
our rig.  I didn't even want to pump from ours.
I used the other rigs.  Actually I was pumping
three rigs.  I'm trying to think of the numbers.
There were three rigs relaying water.
     Q.   All the way up from Broadway?
     A.   Yeah.  Even further than Broadway,
because one was down Broadway and Vesey?
     Q.   Yeah, Vesey, right around in here.
     A.   That relayed to here, and then that was
relaying to another one, which was like right on
T. HANSARD 13
this corner.
     Q.   By the cemetery?
     A.   They were supplying two towers and a
hand line.
          I had to make sure, because this one
was running out of fuel.  Then the one I was in
was running out of fuel.  I was just one
chauffeur with three -- actually I had four rigs.
     Q.   Running, running, running.
     A.   Right.  The guys went -- they did
whatever they could.  But I was pretty much from
there on the street.
          By then somebody came, sanitation or
transit, to fuel me up.  So we got them all
fueled, and we just hung out there, because I'm
sitting there ready to go.  I'm sitting there
saying that things must be organized.  These guys
must know that I'm -- I'm thinking I'm here doing
regular fire and I'd be out of there by 9 or
10:00.  I ended up being there until like 4
o'clock.
          We went back here and just back to
regular.  We went back again.
     Q.   When did you eventually get home?
T. HANSARD 14
     A.   That night on the 12th I got home maybe
around 5:00.  I got home at 5 because it was my
girlfriend's daughter's birthday.  I picked her
up later, and we went to eat.  We passed like 105
and 219.  They had their street closed off.  I
stopped in there, because I know all the guys
there.  We went to eat, and by then it was like
the next day.
          Basically that's what happened.
     Q.   Well, Tom, unless you've got anything
else you want to add to it, any feelings like
that -- like I said, it's going down as a
history, so it's up to you if you want to say
anything else; if not --
     A.   It was just very unorganized.  All of
the bosses were killed, so no one knew what to
do.
Q. Right.
     A.   Just the way the manpower was and all
of the reports that you heard, they said we were
under attack.  It was like, look, you've got to
do this, you've got to get ready for the next
one.  We heard all kinds of stories.
Q. Sure.
T. HANSARD 15
     A.   The truck was told to go through the
Battery Tunnel, which saved their lives, and they
had to walk through the Battery Tunnel.  So by
the time they walked through, everything fell.
     Q.   It was down already.
     A.   Then we're here reports that they blew
up the Brooklyn Bridge.  We're like, wow, we just
came across the bridge.  You know what I'm
saying?  I expected worse.  I just think that the
organization was -- like guys coming in off duty
or whatever, manpower, everything has to run even
in the chaos.
     Q.   Right, right.
     A.   When we got back to Bed Stuy, there was
no one here.  If there was a small fire or
whatever it would spread -- the rest of the city
was left defenseless.  The building was way too
big.  We had the one years ago.  I felt that they
should have torn it down or do whatever then and
spread out.  The rest of the city, like around
here, is vacant, vacant warehouses and property.
     Q.   They could use a few buildings around
here.
     A.   Yeah.  And it's close to the Wall
T. HANSARD 16
Street area.  Now that Metrotech is being built
up, people are looking on this side of the river.
     Q.   Right.
     A.   That's basically all I have to say.
     Q.   All right, Tom.  Listen, thanks a lot
for your interview?
          MR. TAMBASCO:  The interview concludes
     at 1459 hours.
File No. 9110112
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
           EMT JOHN ROTHMUND
   Interview Date:  October 18, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
J. ROTHMUND 2
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today is October 17th,
     2001.  I'm Paul Radenberg of the Fire
     Department, City of New York.  The time is
     now 1655 hours.  I'm conducting an interview
     with --
          EMT ROTHMUND:  JOHN ROTHMUND, EMT,
     Battalion 22.
          MR. RADENBERG:  This interview is being
     conducted at EMS Battalion 22 regarding the
     events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   All yours, John.
     A.   Okay.  I was working 22 Adam with John
Heer, my partner.  We got assigned a job along
with I believe five other units at the time.
They told us to respond to the foot of the
Verrazano Bridge and stand by.  So we went.  We
were 63.
          By the time we got to the foot of the
VZ, they had already called us through to the
Brooklyn side of the VZ and stand by.  Not a
clue, never got a job, never heard anything.  We
really didn't know what was going on.
          We go over the bridge.  As we get over
the bridge, we look to our left and we can see
J. ROTHMUND 3
one of the towers was burning.  So we had an idea
what was going on.  We got about to the foot of
the Verrazano Bridge, and they called us again
and told us to take it to the Brooklyn side of
the Battery Tunnel and stand by.
          Once we got onto the Gowanus and over
that bridge, there was a chain of emergency
vehicles.  We just kept going.  We got to the
foot of the tunnel.  There was no way to turn
off, no way to go, so you had to keep going.
          We went into Manhattan, came out
through the tunnel.  We wound up going up West up
until I think it was Liberty, and staging was set
at Liberty and West, right in that -- it could
have been here (indicating), over there.
          At the time we had no idea what was
going on.  The only thing we knew, there was a
fire, and we knew that from looking over off the
bridge that a plane had hit it, but we thought it
was a Cessna, like a little tiny private
airplane.  Nobody had a clue it was a commercial
liner.
     Q.   Right.
     A.   So we set up staging at that area,
J. ROTHMUND 4
Liberty and West, and my partner and I got out.
We were one of the first three at that location,
ambulances.  We got out.  Saw how close we were
in relation to the towers, we also saw that both
towers were in flames.  We didn't know what was
going on there either.
          We decided to go see who we could talk
to.  We relocated the staging.  We felt that it
was totally unsafe where we were.  So me and my
partner tried to find authority figures, and
there was really none around.  The only person
that seemed to have any kind of sense of why the
staging was there was a voluntary unit.
          We figured, you know what, we're just
going to relocate them.  We relocated from
Liberty and West down to South End.  We started
to line ambulances from South End up until
Liberty.  So you came from South End and Albany.
I imagine it was Albany.  Right now I can't
remember.  From the map that's what it looks
like.
Q. Okay.
     A.   I don't know, there had to be 20, 30
ambulances there that we moved.  We felt it was
J. ROTHMUND 5
unsafe where we were.
     Q.   Right.
     A.   A long story short, we get all our
stuff out, our equipment out, and we stand by.
We were just waiting.  We received one patient
which had a head injury, laceration, who we gave
to the voluntary Hazollah unit, because they
already had a previous patient and they were
going to go 82 to the hospital.  So we put them
with them so we don't lose another bus.
          At this time we saw people jumping from
the roof, so we kind of realized the gravity of
everything.  We really just thought it was a bad
fire.  We really didn't know what the hell was
going on.  We saw so many people jumping.  We
just waited.
          We had walked up with equipment and
whatnot from this location and up until Liberty,
and we were standing by on Liberty just trying to
see what was going on.  Again, there was really
no authority figures whatsoever.
          At that time we were looking at the top
of the towers and all the rubble and people
coming off, and all of a sudden you heard -- it
J. ROTHMUND 6
sounded like another airplane, or a missile.  It
was like a slow shake.  The whole ground just
vibrated and shook.  We just told everybody to
run, run into a building, let's go, run, run,
run.
          We ran off of Liberty.  We couldn't get
very far.  We got into a superette.  We threw as
many people as were coming into this superette,
me and my partner.  We never left each other's
side the whole entire time.  We were like Velcro.
We got everybody into the deli superette.  I
don't know what the hell it was.  It was big.  It
was good size.
          After that the debris was just coming
down and coming down.  Nobody could really stand
there anymore.  There was nobody else coming in,
so we went in.  We got inside.  Again, we're the
only kind of emergency service people that were
in there.  We were just as scared and nervous as
everybody else.  We just couldn't panic.
          We had about 40 people in this deli
that we had to try and keep calm for a while.
For the longest time we thought we were pinned
in.  We thought the rubble was in front.  It was
J. ROTHMUND 7
rubble in front of the deli, in front of the
windows.  Whatever debris can be.  We really
didn't know.  We just saw dark smoke.
          One guy fainted in the back, some Parks
Department person, green uniform, gold shield.
We roused him.  He woke up.  At that time after
trying to keep everybody in the back of the store
and calm, we tried to find an alternate exit.
          As we were trying to find an exit,
somebody came down from the buildings up top; I
don't know how many floors.  I know we walked
three floors.  Anyway, we tried to find it, and
they said there's women and children up top in
the building that are stuck.  They can't breathe,
there's smoke, there's so much smoke nobody could
breathe.
          So me and my partner grabbed a couple
wet towels, ran upstairs, pulled out probably
upwards of 10 to 20 people, women, children,
pregnant women, pets, whatever the hell was up
there, and we brought them all down into the
store, because we had seen a back door.
          The back door was just as much filled
with soot and smoke, but it was a way out.  So we
J. ROTHMUND 8
figured we would keep everybody in here protected
for a while.  We brought everybody down.  We just
sat there and waited for a minute or two we saw
that the front was clearing up.  Everybody
remained in side for a little while.
          We went outside, and you could see your
hand in front of your face.  That's how much it
had cleared up.  So we decided we've got to go
and see what's going on.  So we told everybody
stay inside for a few minutes and let the dust
settle.  We had no patients.  Everybody was
relatively shook up, whatnot, but for the most
part everybody was all right.
          We went outside.  It was just like
horrible.  It was like a war.  There was just
nothing but soot and concrete chunks and whatever
everywhere.  Ambulances were covered in soot,
doors wide open.  There was nothing you could do.
Everything was just a foot of soot and dirt,
whatever you want to call it.
          We came out of the deli, and we see
Chief Grant.  We see him walk by.  He was kind of
dazed a little bit altered, a little AMS there.
We went up to him to actually look for some kind
J. ROTHMUND 9
of -- to find out where we were going, what the
situation was.  He became more of a patient than
anything.  We made him our priority at the time
because nobody else was there anyway.  We put him
back in the deli.
          We told everybody it's clearing up, to
head to the water, come around, go down toward
the esplanade.  We treated him, gave him oxygen,
flushed his eyes, gave water, whatever, tried to
hook him up.  He was a little bit shocked, is
really what it came down to.
          We treated him for a few minutes.  A
few minutes -- time had no concept whatsoever,
really no concept.  It could have been 15
minutes; it could have been 5 seconds.  I have no
clue.  We took care of him.
          We wound up having another patient
outside with minor bumps and bruises.  We went to
check on him with my partner.  We never left each
other.  When I say "me," I mean "we"; okay?
Q. Right.
     A.   We went to check on this person.  We
turned around and Chief Grant was walking out of
the building, heading right to the water.  We
                  J. ROTHMUND                  10
figured, you know what, he's going in a good
direction, let him go.  We're going to watch him
walk down and that's it.
          That was the only place that had any
kind of air was down next to the water.
Q. Right.
     A.   So we sent as many people as we could
down towards the water if they're able to walk.
We did have a few fractures and whatnot.
Splinted like lightning, you know what I mean,
got them out of there.
          Then we got into the ambulance, threw
the stretcher back in the ambulance, because it
was still running, and we figured the other
tower's got to be coming down.  So we took the
ambulance and we moved the ambulance away down to
the esplanade.  Where we figured it would be kind
of safe.
Q. Right.
     A.   As we were going down I think it was
Albany, I imagine.  I'm really not sure.  As we
were going down Albany, I saw a captain.  Oh, and
at the time, after Grant had walked down towards
the water, Chief McCracken came walking down and
                  J. ROTHMUND                  11
walked back up.  I couldn't catch the man.  I
don't know where he went.  He disappeared into
the smoke.  I couldn't catch up to him no matter
how much I tried.  So we figured we're alone
here, you know.
          As we were pulling down, we saw some
captain.  I really don't know who the gentleman
was -- heavyset guy, black hair, it appeared to
be, white helmet, blue shirt and the bars, you
know -- asking us for a ride.  I'm not going
anywhere, I'm telling him.  We're going down to
the corner here, you know.
          I guess shock kind of took over him
too, kind of getting emotional and whatnot.  So
we stopped and we let him into to the empty seat
that we were going to drive, took him down.
          The inside of the ambulance was in no
better shape than the outside air was.  But we
brought him down to there, told him here, get
out, parked the truck, turned the battery off,
whatever, got another patient.
          So I walked him back up again and got
another patient.  When I say "patients," minor:
bruises, cuts and scratches, fractures that, go
                  J. ROTHMUND                  12
ahead, keep walking.  Fix you up quick and go.
          As we made our way back into it again
trying to get -- to help, the other tower came
down.  We couldn't see anything, the smoke was
just -- we couldn't -- the stuff, soot.
     Q.   Where were you when the second tower
came down?
     A.   The second tower came down --
     Q.   Still back down in this area?
     A.   No.  We were probably up on South End
or you know what, it might have been more on
West.  Yeah, it had to be on West, because we had
moved the bus down and we had started walking
north to get -- to help.  That's what you assumed
happened was the towers came down.
Q. Right.
     A.   We didn't know whether it came down or
not.  We really thought it was another plane
hitting, but we figured if it was it was
devastating, whatever it was.
          After we got the bus to safety, because
that was our only egress out of there was that
bus.
Q. Right.
                  J. ROTHMUND                  13
     A.   We treated another one, sent him on his
way and went back up.  Like I said, did a couple
fractures -- what I'm guessing is Albany to west
side.  I'm really not sure.
          We went up toward midtown, and we went
left on either South End or West.  Right before
we got anywhere near the towers, the other one --
you couldn't see the towers.  You looked up and
you couldn't see what was there or not.  There
was nothing but smoke.
          All of a sudden it happened again, the
same exact sound, the same thing.
     Q.   The noise and the vibrations?
     A.   The noise and the vibrations.
          At that point everything -- it just
came down.  All you saw was the cloud of smoke
coming at you, so we ran.  No shame.  We ran --
     Q.   None at all.
     A.   -- right down Albany again to the
esplanade.  We escorted hundreds, hundreds of
people down the esplanade, walked down to -- I
have no idea where it was.  We got to a point in
the esplanade that seemed like it had a dock on
it of some sort.  A fireman or police officer --
                  J. ROTHMUND                  14
I was with maybe a handful of firemen, maybe two
or three police officers.
          As I got down and escorted people out,
we were trying to keep away from the smoke.  We
only had the respirators, which was after the
second tower came down anyway.
Q. Right.
     A.   We just inhaled that air.  And the air
was nice over here.  If you stayed on the bottom,
stayed down on the ground and sucked a little
air, you got a clear breath.
Q. Right.
     A.   Pulled all kinds of people down.
Again, we didn't know what was going on.  We
thought it was a bomb, you know, like planes were
dropping from the sky or missiles were hitting.
We didn't know what the hell was going on.
          So a police officer took out a Chinese
restaurant door, knocked it in.  Whatever the
case may be, he got in.  We started lifting
people up into this restaurant, the women, the
kids, anybody, elderly people.  We had to lift
them over some kind of railing, because it was
the easiest access from the esplanade to get them
                  J. ROTHMUND                  15
in and out, because, again, it was just like a
war zone.  You didn't know what the hell was
happening.
          So we got as many people as we could
that came walking along that esplanade into that
building and kept them there.  At that time I
believe Mark Harris -- I saw Mark Harris and
Kathy Zarr.  They came over, and as they started
to make up the triage area with zero equipment.
We had nothing.  Just maybe a supportive thing
for themselves or for the patients.  We really
had nothing to do anything with.
          The boats started coming in on the
corner over the water.  We started pulling out
the women and children from where we put them in
not 20 minutes before or however long before.  We
started pulling them back out, put them on boats
to get them over to New Jersey.  I don't know how
long we did that for.  Again, treatment for minor
things along the way, nothing to speak of.  We
pulled them all out.
          We didn't like the idea of having a
triage here because we had nothing.  We decided
we've got to walk and find somebody else, some
kind of brass.
     Q.   Right?
J. ROTHMUND                  16
     A.   After this whole place was evacuated,
there was nobody left on this esplanade, me and
my partner took off walking down -- I don't see
it on the map.  I really wouldn't know where to
begin what the name of the street would be.
     Q.   Let me see if I have another map.  I
don't know if that's going to be any better.
     A.   Not a bad map.  We were right here.
This would be --
     Q.   South Cove Park?
     A.   Right.  This is where we were.  South
Cove Park is where we were putting people on
boats and where we had put the people into that
restaurant, keeping them safe and out of the
fumes, the smoke.
          After we got everybody off of that
esplanade and out of that restaurant, women and
children, onto these boats, we had no patients.
It was just mostly men who were totally capable
of handling themselves.
     Q.   Right.
     A.   Police officers there, firemen, still
                  J. ROTHMUND                  17
remained there.  Like I said, we had no brass.
We had no equipment to set up a triage spot.  So
we started to walk down along the esplanade down
South Cove Park.  As we were about to turn the
corner, we saw another EMS guy.  I don't know who
he was.  He said they set up a triage point, a
staging point, at South Ferry and they also set
one up at Chelsea Pier.
          So in relation to where we were at the
time, we felt that the south ferry was a lot
closer.  So before we walked any further, we
decided we've got to go back and see what we
could do.  We turn around, went back up.  As we
went back up, everybody was just coming back
down.  I mean, firemen, cops, everybody, just
coming back away from there.  Nobody was saying
much of anything, just like don't go there, just
leave, don't go in there.
          So we went back up to where we had
parked our ambulance on Albany and the esplanade,
went to get back into the ambulance, and the
windows were all gone.  All the windows were
blown out in the back.  We tried to get in to
start it.  There was an amazing cloud of soot in
                  J. ROTHMUND                  18
there.  The soot was on the seats like six inches
deep.  We jumped in to try to get it started, and
she was dead.
          So we then walked the whole esplanade
down to I guess maybe First Avenue, First Place,
still on the esplanade, though, to where we found
a chief.  I don't know who the man was.  Nicest
guy in the world.
Q. EMS chief?
     A.   EMS chief.  EMS chief.  I don't know
who he was.  He didn't want to hear anything but
how we were.  I guess we looked pretty horrible
at the time.  He asked us if we needed treatment,
whatnot.  We said we needed a little rest, a
little water, wipe our eyes out of the soot.
          He said he was setting up a small
staging spot with just one ambulance.  He had
equipment, had oxygen.  He didn't have an oxygen
regulator.  It just so happened I had my own
personal regulator on me that I didn't want to
leave in the ambulance and I took, which I never
saw again.  It was gone.  I gave him the oxygen.
          Again, we set up a treatment area right
at that area.  I don't know at all where that
                  J. ROTHMUND                  19
would be except for maybe First and esplanade if
that even exists.  Needless to say, we sat there
for an hour or so.  Again, time really is hard.
Q. Right.
     A.   Evacuating people off of Manhattan onto
boats with the Fire Department and Police
Department.  We treated whomever needed to be
treated in the ambulance that was there.  There
was about maybe five or six other techs there,
and I imagine the chief stayed.  I don't know who
it would be.
          We didn't do much treatment after that
point because we were pretty shot.  He was just
letting us sit for a few minutes, cooling off,
whatever.  If I had to guess, I would say this
was about 1:00 now, maybe 2:00.  This was late.
We were there for a good piece of time.  We
didn't get down to this ferry until maybe 2,
3:00, something like that.
Q. Okay.
     A.   I'm really not sure.  But he had told
us that this area was a safe area.  He had heard
something about the ferry being set up as a
triage point, but he wasn't sure.  He said as
                  J. ROTHMUND                  20
soon as he gets more information he'll move us if
he needs to.  But as it was, we were in a safe
area.  We had a steady flow of people who were
potential patients.  So we remained there for a
good piece of time.  I don't know how long.
          After most of the patients evacuated
off the island already in the boats -- and there
were numerous amounts of boats along the
promenade, just pulling people on.  You throw
them on.
Q. Right.
     A.   We all picked up and walked.  I guess
the esplanade goes around lower Manhattan.  So we
walked along the water across a park -- I don't
know where the park is; here you go, Robert F.
Wagner Park -- down to the ferry.
          We got to the terminal, and it was like
a godsend, because everybody's in there.  All the
triage stuff was set up.
          That was it.  We remained there.  Not
many people to treat at that time.  Everybody was
off the island.  Anybody that was walking and
able to treat was treated and sent off that
island already, whether it be on a boat along the
                  J. ROTHMUND                  21
promenade or underneath the ferry or Chelsea
Pier, whoever walked over there.  We didn't have
anybody really that I can say was serious.
Everybody was gone.  They got up and left.
          At that point we stayed there until
12:00 that night, maybe, 12:30 that night.  I
jumped on the ferry and came back to the island.
I didn't have a ride once I got to the island.
We had to take a train to Eltingville.  We sat on
the corner of Eltingville waiting for a
lieutenant to come pick us up, which there was
none of.
          We wound up getting a ride from some
hell of a nice guy that just pulled over and
drove us back to the station.  So that was the
tie-in to the fitting night.
          I don't know what else to say.
     Q.   When you first came into Manhattan
through the battery, you came up the West Side
Highway coming up there?
A. Yes.
     Q.   Do you remember who else was with you
when you got up to West and Liberty up there?
     A.   No.  As far as units?
                  J. ROTHMUND                  22
     Q.   Not necessarily the unit numbers.
     A.   I know a couple of the guys, but I'm
new out here too.  So I don't know them by name
or anything.
     Q.   They were from --
     A.   No, they weren't from EMS.  They were
from Staten Island, yes.  One was a Staten Island
unit which pulled up -- I don't know, I'd have to
say a few minutes, four minutes after I did,
maybe.
     Q.   Volunteer units?
     A.   Yeah, volunteer.
     Q.   Staten Island Hospital?
     A.   Yeah, Staten Island Hospital.
          One guy's name was Mitch who was over
there.  Then I saw a Vinnie's unit.  These are
ones that I took note of because I knew the guys.
Q. Right.
     A.   There was a few Hazollah.  There was a
couple of Richmond County.  I saw some Metro
people.
          Again, when I pulled up it seemed they
had this triage spot where the ambulances were
sitting, awaiting patients.  There was, I have to
                  J. ROTHMUND                  23
say, a bravo ambulance, if I'm not mistaken.  I
don't really know for sure.  None of them were
EMS.  None of these ambulances were EMS who set
up this staging point.  That's why we changed it.
We said, you know what, this is not a spot for us
to be in, so we moved it around.
Q. Okay.
     A.   That's all I remember.  Nobody stopped
there anymore.  Everybody just turned around and
came down the street.  They didn't think twice
about it.
          That was it.  I saw no brass.  I saw no
brass.
     Q.   On Liberty?  You didn't come across any
supervisors?
     A.   No.  There was, I imagine it was a
lieutenant, whether it was EMS or the Fire
Department.  I saw numerous PD who instructed me
where to go, and the lieutenant instructed me
where to go.  I couldn't tell you who he was.  If
you paid me a million dollars, I wouldn't know.
          There was umpteen brass all over here,
but we hadn't gotten that far yet.  After we
relocated our ambulances, we got up to Liberty
                  J. ROTHMUND                  24
and started walking in, and it happened.
Everything came down.  We didn't know where,
what.  We just took cover, basically.
          It was west side to Liberty.  We
relocated from Liberty to South End and Albany.
     Q.   Okay.  Any thoughts or comments?
     A.   No.  I'm glad I made it out of there;
sorry for the people that didn't.  I wish we
could have done more, but there was nothing we
could do.
     Q.   I thank you.
          MR. RADENBERG:  The time is now 1722.
     The interview is concluded.
File No. 9110113
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER FRANK SWEENEY
   Interview Date:  October 18, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
F. SWEENEY 2
          MR. CUNDARI:  Today's date is October
     18th, 2001.  The time is 9:35.  I'm George
     Cundari with Richard Dun of the Fire
     Department of the City of New York.  I'm
     conducting the interview with the following
     individual.
          Please state your name, rank, title and
     assigned command.
          FIREFIGHTER SWEENEY:  My name is Frank
     Sweeney, firefighter second grade, assigned
     to Engine 3.
     Q.   Frank, can you just tell us the events
of September 11th, 2001?
     A.   I was assigned to Engine 3
approximately two weeks before this happened, so
I was kind of unfamiliar with the way the
high-rise unit operated.  But that morning I came
in.  I got here about 8:00 in the morning,
reporting to work.  I was upstairs.
          I think I was brushing my teeth or
something with Angel and Michael.  I can remember
Angel making fun of Michael, the way he was doing
his hair.  Angel said, "Frank, go downstairs and
make sure they've got your name in the house
F. SWEENEY 3
watch ready to work.
          So I came downstairs, and I walked into
the house watch.  Battalion 7 was to go down to
the World Trade Center for a fire.  Somebody pops
on the news, and we can see the World Trade
Center.  There was a lot of black smoke coming
from the north tower.
     Q.   Who was working Battalion 7?  Who was
the chief?
     A.   Orio Palmer.
     Q.   Orio Palmer.
     A.   So they go down.  Very shortly after
another set of tones go out.  I don't know who is
being dispatched.  I think it might have been
Engine 3.  Somebody got on the air and said, "Do
you want us to bring the high-rise unit?"  The
dispatcher came back on and said, "Bring
everything you've got."
          Now the truck guys are getting ready to
go.  I'm like, "Holy shit, Scott, what do we do?
Where do we go?"  Because I don't know who goes
in the high-rise unit.  So Scott said, "Yeah,
come with me.  I'll drive the high-rise and you
sit next to me."  I was like, all right cool.
F. SWEENEY 4
          3 Engine got right out.  We were right
behind them.  We were flying down Seventh Avenue.
You can already see people are out on the streets
looking.  People are already watching.  The
citizens are already watching what's going on.
     Q.   When you got there did you see a lot of
debris on the ground already?
     A.   When we got to the scene?
     Q.   Yeah.
     A.   When we were coming down -- well, we
crossed over West Side Highway and were coming
down still just -- you could see a lot of things
falling from the tower.  But no, I can't see a
lot of debris on the street, no, because the
World Trade Center is actually up on like a
parapet wall of some sort.  There's like some
kind of wall there you can't see.
          We got in front of the World Trade
Center, and we could see things were falling.
Scott and I just looked at each other like this
is not a good place to park.  Scott turned the
high-rise unit around and parked it under the
pedestrian walkway.
          At that time I remember looking at
F. SWEENEY 5
Engine 3.  Engine 3 went really far south, and
the lieutenant had them turn the rig around and
come back north.  So we were actually facing the
other way and were near a couple hydrants just
north of the high-rise unit and just north of
that bridge.
          Then another unit comes in around us.
It was another engine.  I can't remember what
engine it was.  We're standing there for a short
period of time.  I remember the lieutenant turned
to Scott and I and said, "You know, this could be
a terrorist thing.  Maybe it was a bomb or
something."  I can't remember his exact words.
          Shortly thereafter Scott said, "What's
wrong with the flight patterns around here?"  I
said, "What are you talking about?"  And the
south tower blew up.  Scott said, "That was a
plane."  I said, "Scott, it was not a plane.  It
was probably another bomb."  He said, "No, I saw
it.  It was a plane."
          Then a chief came up to him and started
yelling at Scott saying, "Are you sure you saw a
plane?"  He was like getting angry.  He wanted to
make sure that it was a plane that Scott saw.
F. SWEENEY 6
Scott said, "Yes, I saw it."  That's when things
really started changing.  You could see the fear
in a lot of people's faces.
     Q.   The plane never came over your head,
then?
     A.   No.  That was south of us.  That was
south of us.
          All the meantime, we were seeing people
jump.  That's what really started getting to me.
At first it didn't start getting to me.  I was
like, all right, people are going to be jumping
here.  We had to keep our heads up to make sure
we don't get hit by any of these.
          Then I think we were there an hour and
it really started getting to be too much.  I saw
one woman come down and beheaded.  It was just
too much.
     Q.   Are you still looking up at the north
tower?
     A.   Yeah, I'm looking at the north tower.
The south tower is going.  Somewhere in this
time -- it's really hard to tell time frames, but
I saw Giuliani with Von Essen, and they were
going to what I believe was the command post.
F. SWEENEY 7
          It was set up like maybe in front of
the Marriott Hotel, somewhere around there, maybe
on the West Side Highway, yeah, in front of Two
World Financial Center.  They were walking over
towards there somewhere.
          I can remember a lot of the officers
yelling to the guys, "Do not put down your
equipment.  If you put down your equipment, stand
next to it, because you don't know who's putting
what down next to us."
          We were clearing all of the civilians
out of the area.  I can remember getting upset
with one civilian who was being very theatrical
about the jumpers, and I asked him to leave.  He
didn't need to be there.
          I can remember about seven people
walking from like at the Marriott over to where
we were.  I said, "Where are you people coming
from?"  They said the south tower.  But it was
only like seven people.  Other than that there
were no civilians walking in the front there.
There was nobody coming out from the towers.  I
was very surprised about that.
     Q.   Did you have a lot of chaos or mayhem
F. SWEENEY 8
around you?
     A.   Not at this point, no.  Initially when
we parked the rigs there was a lot of civilians
still in the area.  At this point now it's a lot
of security guards from the World Financial
Center and a lot of Fire Department and police.
          So we're standing by in front of the
Winter Garden.  The lieutenant has us up one
level from the rest of the fireman because he
thought if something else were to happen we would
be able to run through the Winter Garden, where
all these guys would be stuck down there in the
basement.
          We were actually under the pedestrian
bridge at the entrance to the Winter Garden.
Scott said, "If something happens, we'll all run
into the Winter Garden and go to the right."  I
said, "Scott, look at this huge concrete pillar
here.  Nothing's going to go through this thing."
Later on the north tower did.
          So anyway, we were standing there.  One
of the chiefs calls for three engines and three
trucks to the south tower.  I can remember we
went back outside, because we walked inside for a
F. SWEENEY 9
short period, just walked through the doors to
see where we could run to in case we needed to.
     Q.   You heard that over your radio?
     A.   Then we walked back out.  Yeah.
     Q.   That came over your radio?
     A.   Came over the radio.
     Q.   Were there a lot of maydays on the
radio at that time?
     A.   No, no.  I don't remember maydays at
that time, no.
          The lieutenant said, "Let's go, 3
Engine."  I bent over to pick up the hose, and I
hear what sounded like firecrackers and a low
rumble.  I look up, and the south tower -- I
could see the top part of the siding overlapping
the bottom side of the siding.  The siding
actually was like this.  Then I saw the dirt
above that.
          I ran.  I was right behind Scott.
Scott ran into the Winter Garden and got against
a concrete pillar, and I just hugged the pillar
with Scott.  Aguilera was right behind me.  I
thought we were dead.  I thought the tower was
coming down on top of us.  I thought we were
gone.
F. SWEENEY 10
          It was a loud rumble.  The Winter
Garden filled up with the dirt, the dust and that
was it.  Then it was quiet.  Then you heard the
maydays on the radio.  I can remember hearing,
"Mayday, mayday, mayday.  Mayday, mayday,
mayday."  I think I can remember like Ladder 4 or
something like that, if that makes any sense.
     Q.   Right now you're just with Scott in the
Winter Garden?  Anybody else with you?
     A.   Scott and Aguilera.
          The rumbling stops, and we start
looking for people.  I can't even see Scott, and
I'm right on his back.  That's how thick it was.
          We start back towards the entrance to
go back out of the building, and we hear people
in this little room.  So Rob and I go towards the
little room.  I don't know where Scott went at
that time.  We grabbed the people out of this
little cubbyhole and bring them to the back of
the building.
          Then we go back to the front of the
Winter Garden and we found another person just
wandering around.  He said he's Commissioner of
F. SWEENEY 11
the Fire Department and he needed to make a phone
call.  He tried making a phone call on one of
those little security phones.  We're trying to
tell him he can't call out on that phone.  He
says he has to call headquarters.  We just
grabbed him, pulled him and dragged him out back.
     Q.   Do you know which commissioner this
was?
     A.   It was not Von Essen.  It was somebody
I don't recognize.  He identified himself as a
commissioner.  He was trying to make a phone call
on that little white security phone.  So we just
told him, "Come on, let's go.  You're in shock or
something."  We just dragged him out back of the
Winter Garden.
          Then we came back out front looking for
the lieutenant, who then shortly appears.  Now
we're worried about Kevin Cronick and our
chauffeur.  We didn't know where our chauffeur
was.  The interesting thing there is the
pedestrian walkway bridge is still up.  It's
still intact at that time.  The south tower is
gone.  Rob Aguilera says to me, "The Marriott's
gone."  I said, "Never mind that.  The tower is
F. SWEENEY 12
gone."  I didn't think that the tower would come
down, not like that.  I thought maybe a quarter
of the top came off, because it didn't seem like
that long of a rumble.
     Q.   How dark was it for how long a period?
Was it a long period or short time?
     A.   I thought it was kind of short,
thinking of what came down.  What was interesting
is when we went back out towards the walkway, it
was actually getting clearer.  The closer we
walked to the tower, the clearer it was getting.
Inside the building it was very dense.
     Q.   Were there a lot of people there other
than you and your partner in the Winter Garden?
     A.   Just the commissioner and maybe three
other guys that we took out back.
     Q.   There were no civilians?
     A.   No, no.  I don't know where they all
escaped to.
          So the pedestrian walkway was still up
at that time after the south tower came down.
          So we just got together with our
company, and we walked through the garden out to
the back.
F. SWEENEY 13
     Q.   The second building hasn't come down
yet?
     A.   No.  The north tower is still standing.
          We come out on Vesey Street and we walk
towards the Hudson River.  The lieutenant -- I
said, "Where are we going?  We've got to do
something here."  He said, "Well, this other one
may come down."  I said, "This ain't coming down.
That was just a fluke that that first one came
down."  All the time I wanted to go up in there.
He said, "Yeah, the second one -- that one may
come down too."  Not even five, ten minutes later
the thing came down.
     Q.   So you were around North End Street and
Vesey at the time the second one came down?
     A.   Yeah, North End and Vesey.  Everybody
started running north, up to where you see North
Park on there.  We started running north.  That
whole area became cloudy.
     Q.   Were there boats parked over there,
going to New Jersey, taking people over?
     A.   There were boats taking people over,
but I don't know if it was before the second
tower came or after.  I know afterwards when we
F. SWEENEY 14
found Engine 5 and the fireman having a heart
attack, yeah, there were boats there and we put
him on the boats and sent him over.
          Then the rest of the day we just spent
running from bomb scares and gas leaks.
Stuyvesant school had a gas leak.  The World
Financial had a gas leak or bomb or something.
     Q.   Then you were putting out fires on the
rigs, ambulances, police cars at that time?
     A.   No, no.  By that time we were up by
Chambers Street.  We're north of Chambers now.
Now the Fire Department is trying to gather the
people and make some kind of organization out of
it and getting companies together at that time.
          Once they got us back together and
organized somewhat, they sent us back down to
Vesey, where we stood and waited for Seven World
Trade Center to come down.
     Q.   Were you able to drive your apparatus
back or you came back with Engine 3?
     A.   Well, no, that's the interesting thing.
After the north tower came down, that pedestrian
walkway bridge was gone, and the high-rise unit
was underneath there.
F. SWEENEY 15
     Q.   How did you get back to quarters?
Jumped on the back of a volley rescue.
     A.   Oh, right, right, that's how we got
back.  That's right.
          But that was a long day.
     Q.   After the towers collapsed, you never
really saw any injuries after that?  No civilians
were coming up to you?
     A.   No, it was surprising; right?  Not many
injuries at all.  I think you either got hit with
that building and died or --
     Q.   It was unbelievable the lack of
injuries.
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   Anything else?
     A.   No, you know, I can remember -- we were
standing on Vesey Street, and it was just --
everybody is looking around in disbelief.  We
were wondering where 12 Truck is, when Angel
Rivera?
Q. Yeah.
     A.   Angel Rivera was walking around in a
daze and we found him.  We said, "Where is the
rest of the truck?"  He started to explain where
F. SWEENEY 16
the rest of the truck was and what happened.
     Q.   And they came up after that?
     A.   Heinz came up, and then we found
McGimpsey.
     Q.   He told us that Mazy and Matt Tansey
were shipped to New Jersey.
     A.   Yeah, I didn't hear that part.  I
remember they were trying to rinse McGimpsey's
eyes out.  His eyes were killing him.  They were
bright red, and they were hurting him really bad.
So we sat him down and tried to wash them.
     Q.   Anything else to add?
     A.   I wish I could help you with the
placement of rigs or something, but I can't.
     Q.   There was a lot going on that day.
     A.   The only other thing as far as citizens
was in the north tower I can remember seeing
citizens walking through the glass out an exit
way.  It looked like they were exiting out the
north, but they could have been circling around
to the back.
          There's nothing really else I think I
could help you with.
     Q.   I would like to thank you, Frank, for
F. SWEENEY 17
taking the time and doing this interview.
          MR. CUNDARI:  This concludes the
     interview.  It's 9:50.
File No. 9110114
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER SCOTT HOLOWACH
   Interview Date:  October 18, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
S. HOLOWACH
          MR. CUNDARI:  Today's date is October 18,
     2001.  The time is 9:15.  I'm George Cundari with
     Richard Dunn of the Fire Department of the City of
     New York.  I'm conducting an individual with the
     following individual.
     Q.   Please state your name, rank, title and
assigned command?
     A.   SCOTT HOLOWACH, Firefighter third grade,
assigned to Engine 3.
     Q.   Can you please tell us the events of
September 11, 2001.
     A.   I just got on that morning.  We were in the
house -- I was in the house watch with Angel Juarbe,
one of the guys who was missing from Ladder 12.  We
noticed on the news that one of the planes hit the
Trade Center.  Shortly after that the Chief was sent
and I guess like 30 seconds later we were sent.  We
were sent by ourselves at first and we called up
dispatch and asked if they want the high rise and they
said to roll everything, so we took the high rise down
with us.
          As we were going, we went down to Canal
Street and made a right and went to the West Side
Highway and came down towards the Trade Center on the
2
S. HOLOWACH
West Side Highway.  As we were responding, all you
could see is a lot of smoke pouring out of the north
tower.  I had Firefighter Sweeney with me in the high
rise rig.
          When we first pulled up, we drove just south
of the pedestrian bridge, the north pedestrian bridge,
which came out of the tower to the Winter Garden.  I
noticed a lot of debris coming down from the building,
so we had to jump back into the high rise rig and made
a U turn and parked underneath the pedestrian bridge
facing north.
          At that time, I started walking towards
Engine 3.  Engine 3 drove south to the south pedestrian
bridge to make a U turn to come back and as I'm walking
towards the Engine to find out what Lieutenant Walsh
wanted us to do, I heard the sound of a jet plane.  I
looked up and saw it pretty close and I was like holy
shit.  What's going on with the with the flight
patterns.  All of a sudden, the wings turned and it
dove right into the building and it was screwed up.
          At that time Chief Ganci was behind me and he
thought there was another explosion in the north tower
and that's when I turned around and said Chief, listen,
there is a second plane that hit the other tower.  He
3
S. HOLOWACH
was like no no no no, we have another explosion.  I
said no, Chief, I witnessed it.  I watched the plane
hit the other tower.  He is like are you sure.  I said
Chief, I'm 100 hundred percent positive I watched the
second plane hit the other tower.
          That's when Ganci got on the radio and called
for the military.  Walsh walked up to him and said
Chief, 3 engines here with the high rise.  Do you want
us to go into the tower and report to the command
center.  He said, no we are going to set up another
command center outside.  Just stand fast.  They set up
the command center in the mouth of the garage of the
World Financial building.  We were standing there and
Lieutenant Walsh said listen, why don't you go stand on
top underneath the pedestrian bridge, because if
anything happens there is too many guys, here at least
you guys can run some other way.  This way you are not
tripping over 100 other guys.
          We were standing underneath the pedestrian
bridge.  We were watching people jump out of the
building.  I guess we were there for a little while,
20, 25 minutes.  In the meantime we were sitting there
and something gave me a gut feeling that something was
going to happen, so I turned to the guys and I said
4
S. HOLOWACH
listen, if anything happens, I said let's dive into
this building because the Winter Garden, the staircase
is pretty solid and there is two hallways.  We will run
to the right.
          Shortly after that, sure enough, I heard -- I
don't know even -- I guess a rumbling sound.  I looked
up and I see the whole 70th floor basically like buckle
out and start crumbling down the outside of the
building.  At the time I grabbed two other guys and
said let's get the hell out of here.  We dove into the
building and after the rumbling stopped --
     Q.   Would have been south tower collapsing?
     A.   The south tower.
     Q.   You could see it from your position?
     A.   Yes.  I visually watched the 70 floor.  It
looked like almost it was buckling outwards and then it
just went down the outside of the building, just like
scaled the outside of the building and it just started
pancaking and that's when I grabbed the two guys and
the third guy followed us in.  We dove into the hallway
to the right of the staircase and huddled the wall.  I
guess the fourth guy, Cronick, ran out the back of the
building.
          But after the rumbling stopped, it was so
5
S. HOLOWACH
thick in there you couldn't even see each other next to
us, so my first thought was to make sure the guys were
all right.  So I asked Sweeney and Aguilera, who was a
proby, a 14 weeker here, if they were okay.  I screamed
for Cronick and they said they think he ran out the
back.  I said all right, I said we got a lot of people
with us, we got to start searching the area.
          So we started searching the area to make sure
that everybody is getting out, take them out the back.
I got split up from these guys.  I ended up with
another proby from another company and we went and
started searching the lobby of the Winter Garden and
the first floor of the World Financial Center.
     Q.   Scott, did you have a radio at that time?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Were you able to contact anybody on the
radio?
     A.   I didn't try to, actually I didn't think
about it.  I don't remember if anybody was --
     Q.   Was it working?
     A.   Yes, it was working.  I don't remember
hearing --
     Q.   What channel were you on?
     A.   I think I switched to 7.  I'm not sure.  I
6
S. HOLOWACH
don't remember now.  I'm pretty sure I did.  Like I
said, after I ran to the proby, we searched the ground
level of the World Financial Center.  We ended up
outside on the southbound side of the mouth of the
garage.  We searched out front and we ended up
directing a bunch of people, Chiefs and civilians,
towards the water.  When we walked back to the entrance
to the Winter Gardens is when we ran into -- found you
guys again and we came outside and found Lieutenant
Walsh.  He was worried about our chauffeur.  Now we
started looking for our chauffeur.  We found our
chauffeur.  We were standing on Vesey and West and I
guess the Chiefs and the other officers made the
decision to move everybody down towards the Pier,
towards the water, to reorganize and figure out what's
going on.
     Q.   That was by where the fire boat was?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Bank Street?
     A.   No, actually down by the river terrace.  We
were actually on the water, right where Marine One
ended up being docked.  I guess we were there 10
minutes, 15 minutes.  It's hard to tell time.
Everything went so quick.  We were there a short period
7
S. HOLOWACH
of time and that's when we heard the north tower coming
down and noticed the big dust cloud and we started
running north towards the water.
          Before the north tower came down, we helped a
lot of firemen get on the ferries and shipped them over
to Jersey.
     Q.   Were they injured?
     A.   Yes, they were injured.  We had the one
Lieutenant on it.  I don't remember what company he was
from.  He looked like he might be having a heart
attack, so we put him out.  Guys from 21 Truck were
there with injuries, so we put them on the ferries.  A
few other guys from other companies, I'm not even sure
where they were from.
          Like I said, after the second collapse, and
the dust started settling, we went back and grabbed
whatever gear we could and headed north to the end of
the Pier and then went back to the West Side Highway is
where they were mustering everybody and they kept on
pushing us north because they thought there was a gas
leak and a bomb in the American Express building.  They
kept on moving us north of the high school there.
     Q.   Stuyvesant High School?
     A.   Yes, Stuyvesant High School, until they
8
S. HOLOWACH
figured out, I guess, there was no gas leak or no
secondary bomb.  Or no bomb.  I guess they put the PD
in there to search it.  They moved us back south.  We
ended up back up on Vesey Street and West Street and
just hanging out until tower 7 came down.
          After tower 7 came down, we went right to
work over at tower 7 to put the fires out.  That's
where we stayed until we were relieved.
     Q.   Did you see a lot of civilians coming out
towards you away by the water on West Street?
     A.   There wasn't much civilians at the water, no,
no.
     Q.   There wasn't too many --
     A.   More Fire Department personnel, PD and EMS on
the water.  There was a few civilians, but not an
overwhelming amount.  As I said, more of the emergency
personnel went towards the water.  I think most of the
civilians went north.
     Q.   After the collapse, did you -- was there many
injuries after that or you saw a lot of injuries after
the collapse?
     A.   I saw a few.  I expected a lot more.  If we
saw 20 or 30 injuries, that was a lot.  Most of the
injuries were from taking in all that dust it seemed
9
S. HOLOWACH
like.  More people just coughing and difficulty
breathing afterwards.
          MR. CUNDARI:  Scott, I would like to thank
     you for taking part in this interview.  Time is
     9:25.  This concludes this interview.
10
File No. 9110115
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        PARAMEDIC WILLIAM SIMON
   Interview Date:  October 18, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
W. SIMON 2
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today is October 19th,
     2001.  I'm Paul Radenberg of the Fire
     Department of the City of New York.  The
     time now is 1617 hours.  I'm conducting an
     interview with --
          PARAMEDIC SIMON:  WILLIAM SIMON.  I'm a
     paramedic with the New York City Fire
     Department, Battalion 58, Brooklyn.
          MR. RADENBERG:  We're conducting the
     interview at EMS Battalion 58 concerning the
     events of the morning of September 11th,
     2001.
     Q.   Bill, if you would start from when you
were assigned to the job.
     A.   All right.  It was a pretty routine
day.  We came on and we checked the truck and we
figured we're going to be on our normal everyday
routine assignments.  When we're in Canarsie, not
too far from the station, following our check out
our vehicle, we heard a report of the Trade
Center being struck.
          At that point we proceeded closer to
our 1089, because we knew that we would in all
probability have to be utilized.  We subsequently
W. SIMON 3
were assigned to the city for a diff. breather at
Broome and Broadway.  That was, I would say,
about 9:50.
          We knew at that point that tower one
had been struck and was on fire.  We couldn't
believe the reports.  My first impression was
that it probably was a terrorist act.  I don't
think the second building had been hit at that
point.  It was a bright, clear, sunny day, and my
impression is any pilot, any novice pilot, tries
to do everything in their power to avoid striking
a high-rise building of that height.
          At any rate, we were assigned to Broome
and Broadway for a single individual having
trouble breathing, which I thought was somewhat
unusual because there should be hundreds of
people related to that event having trouble
breathing.
          My partner, Barry Hirsch, was driving.
We arrived in the city I would say maybe 10 to 12
minutes after we were assigned.  I was basically
doing the navigating for Barry so that we
wouldn't make any misturns and would take the
most expeditious route.
W. SIMON 4
          We came across Delancy Street -- first
of all we came into Manhattan through Brooklyn
over the Manhattan Bridge, came off of the
Manhattan Bridge and responded, took a few turns
and got over to Allen Street, Allen Street to
Delancy, and then we started to travel west on
Delancy.  Then we crossed Bowery and then
Lafayette and we dropped down to Broome Street,
Broome and Broadway.
          We were both awestruck by the scenes
that we saw of the dust and the debris cloud that
we could see as we were entering the city.  I
believe by the time we got there, I think the
second tower had been hit.  That also was an
awesome sight.
          We got to Broadway, and there's a
tremendous amount of dust, pulverized masonry on
the ground, office materials, papers, computer
files and probably 10,000 people walking north on
Broadway in various states of -- I wouldn't say
people were panicking, but they were walking
briskly to get away, hastily.
          Some people were wearing makeshift
masks from scarves of their own clothing.  Some
W. SIMON 5
had obtained filtration masks, which we utilize
on the ambulances, probably from some of the EMS
crews that they had encountered.
          What amazed me was that we were
approximately 18 to 20 blocks from the World
Trade Center plaza and the amount of dust that
was on the street was anywhere from maybe a half
inch to an inch, all over the cars, all over the
street.  The amount of paper looked like there
had been a ticker tape parade on Broadway.
          Also it reminded me of the descriptions
of what a nuclear winter would look like after a
nuclear attack or something out of what had
happened at Hiroshima.
          After we arrived at the scene in this
maze of people that were walking past us, we
parked the vehicle.  We said there must be
somebody out here who's having trouble breathing.
So we exited the vehicle.  We approached one of
the police officers that were one of the officers
directing traffic at the intersection.  We asked
her did anybody approach her about having trouble
breathing.  She said no, there's been hundreds of
people that went past her, and nobody approached
W. SIMON 6
her specifically.
          We felt it would be appropriate to exit
the vehicle and try to canvas those storefronts
that were still open, because there were still
some merchants that had their doorways open and
were looking south at the event as this mass of
people were walking past us.
          So I went south of Broome Street and
canvassed on the east and west side of the
street, and my partner went north.  We canvassed
east and west, on the east and west sides of the
street, to all the store owners and as many
people as we could encounter.  Amazingly nobody
was complaining of trouble breathing.
          We actually wanted to get a patient,
because we wanted to get involved in the actual
rescue at that point.  We figured some of these
people had to be in distress, but I think their
primary focus was escape and to get to their
loved ones and just to let their family members
know that they were all right.  They really
didn't want to, unless it was absolutely
necessary.
          We even saw some people with minor
W. SIMON 7
cuts, and they --
     Q.   Didn't want treatment?
     A.   Yeah, didn't want treatment.  They
said, "No, I'm fine."
          So at that point we got back on the
radio and we told the dispatcher our current
location and our status and that at this point we
had no patients or nobody that was requiring
assistance.
          We knew at that point we were probably
going to be dispatched either to One World Trade
Center Plaza or one of the other staging areas,
and we subsequently were.  We were instructed to
respond to Chambers and West Street.  That was
the new staging area following the collapse of
tower one.  Units were being deployed over there.
          It took us about five minutes to get
over there, moving through the mass of people and
vehicles and emergency rescue vehicles.  The
first EMS officer that we encountered were
Lieutenant Fitton and Lieutenant Pinkus, who were
on West Street.  They were coordinating the
reassignment of EMS units on the west side.
          We identified ourselves.  They're
W. SIMON 8
colleagues of ours, and they acknowledged our
presence and were glad to see us.  We were glad
to see them, somebody to give us some direction.
          We parked our vehicle in the now
redeployed staging area and got a quick briefing
on the events that had transpired.  There were
still a lot of questions to be answered about the
magnitude and what rescue efforts were actually
going on and the conflicting stories about our
people involved and how many firefighters and
police officers were injured.  All we know is
this a horrendous event of amazing magnitude.  I
looked south, and I was mesmerized by what I saw.
It was like something out of a movie except we're
in it.
          They asked us to park our vehicle and
to walk south on West Street and to render any
care to any people who were ambulatory or
confused about where to seek treatment and to
instruct them where the new staging area was.
          Also any EMS units that might be
disoriented or confused about where the staging
was, because our communications -- the tactical
frequencies were so busy that there was a lot of
W. SIMON 9
miscommunication going on at that point.  I think
we were not only rescuers at that point but we
were a way of communicating to the other units
where to regroup.
          My partner and I started to walk south
down West Street and tried to answer as quickly
as we could the questions of the people who were
ambulatory on the street.  All we could basically
tell them is just keep walking north, keep
walking and you'll see additional EMS resources
and the police staging area.  Your best bet is
just to keep walking as far away from the event,
because we're really not sure of what's going on.
          We must have gotten two to three blocks
south of Chambers Street, and I was still in awe
of this spectacle that I'm witnessing.  My
partner and I were looking at tower two, and
we're looking at I guess 20 stories -- 15 to 20
stories down from the top of the roof just in
flames and smoke.
          Then we hear a rumble, and we see a
blast of smoke and a slight ball of flame coming
out from the silhouette of the building, and we
watched the antenna collapse into the building.
W. SIMON 10
To be honest with you, for about five seconds or
so I was transfixed.  I couldn't believe what I
was seeing.  From our perspective, it looked as
though the antenna was falling towards us, north.
          We were motionless for maybe five
seconds, until we realized that, hey, the
building's coming down and now we've got to run
for our lives.  We turned at that point and told
everybody else, "Listen, the building is
collapsing.  Run, run, run."
          I guess had the building toppled north
and not collapsed into itself, we probably would
have been victims in the road too, because we
were close enough for that to have occurred.
          We sprinted for a good two to two and a
half blocks through a mass of people who were
running at various rates of speed.  All we could
really do is just tell people to just get out of
the way, run, keep running north.
          We were initially looking for shelter.
I believe there was a school on the right-hand
side.  All the doors, the accesses, were locked.
We still felt as though we were in the path of
the debris.  I looked over my shoulder once and
W. SIMON 11
saw the cloud of debris coming up the street and
particulate matter bouncing all over.  At that
point we still weren't certain that we were safe.
          We ran just as fast as we could, and we
tried to seek shelter.  Me personally, I know
myself and one thing I feel good about is I
didn't push anybody out of the way.  It was
everybody for themselves.
          After about two minutes of stark
terror, then we realized that the blunt of the
debris had already fallen and we were relatively
safe.  But there was still the dust, the smoke,
the noise, the confusion and the panic on some of
the civilians.  But we knew we were relatively
safe.
          Then the reality hit me that at that
point we were witnessing, maybe not directly, but
we knew hundreds of people must have perished at
that moment.  That was a sobering feeling.  But
you also thank God at that moment that you were
able to survive or carry on or what set of
circumstances allowed you to persevere.
          When we got to approximately Chambers
Street, there was a lot of noise and we even
W. SIMON 12
heard shots.  I've heard shots in Brooklyn
before.  I couldn't fathom what was going on
unless maybe an officer fell and his weapon
discharged or maybe they saw some people trying
to loot.
          There were some windows blasted out,
and we didn't know what had actually transpired
at that point.  But I'm told there were probably
some officers that were firing to seek refuge in
some of the locked buildings that I think was an
adjacent school.  They probably saved a lot of
people from being in the direct debris path.  At
least that's what I'm told.  I didn't know it on
that particular day.
          After about ten minutes or so, things
were unbelievably quiet.  People regrouped,
regathered.  We made contact again with the EMS
supervisors that were there, and we set up an
additional triage area.  We tried to restructure
the triage area in I think Borough of Manhattan
Community College on the north side of the
building.  A makeshift triage area was set up on
the upper mezzanine.
          At that point myself and some volunteer
W. SIMON 13
EMTs and some people who I believe responded to
the area from the voluntary hospitals started to
man that location.  We treated one or two police
officers for dust inhalation and exhaustion.
          There was one young girl that was
obviously in a state of total disbelief and
severe anxiety.  We examined her for any serious
injuries.  She just had some minor cuts and
bruises.  I think she was like all of us.  She
just couldn't believe the events that transpired
and the circumstances that she was in the middle
of.
          Shortly after that, I would say maybe
about 15 minutes after setting up that area, we
were instructed to evacuate that area and move
further north to another safe location up by
Chelsea Pier on 23rd Street because there was a
report of a gas leak.
          So now we had to retrieve all the
equipment that we had now deployed and put it
back into the trucks, the trucks that were
accessible to us, and move quickly up north.
          At this point there were two or three
EMTs on my truck.  My partner, Barry Hirsch,
W. SIMON 14
because of his training with special operations,
he had gone with Lieutenant Santiago, and they
had separated.  He said that he would be back in
a few minutes because they were going to see if
they could coordinate and regroup and see what
EMS units were in need of assistance further
south.
          At this point, under the instruction of
one of the lieutenants at the scene, we started
to move the truck up north.  There were a few
civilians that were not as spry as some of the
younger people, and we opened our doors and let
them in.  We transported them as far north as we
could without jeopardizing their well-being.  We
let them exit at the Chelsea Piers.
          After that, that's basically where our
unit remained until later that afternoon.  I
stayed and hooked up with one of the medics that
I know from the academy, since I only had one
partner at that point.
          I was with Tommy Maher until about
5:00, 5:30 in the afternoon.  Then we were
released from the scene.  From there I got back
to Battalion 58 and dropped Tommy off and knew
W. SIMON 15
they were going to get off the scene.
     Q.   When you were up on Chambers and West,
that's where you encountered Lieutenant Fenton
and Captain Pinkus; right?
     A.   Yeah, Lieutenant Pinkus, Lieutenant
Pinkus.
     Q.   Oh, communications; do you know?
     A.   Maybe it's another Pinkus.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   I know he's from -- I know it's a
Lieutenant Pinkus, and he's from Metropolitan.
     Q.   When you were going south with your
partner on West, do you recall how far, or what
street you got to?
     A.   We probably were somewhere between
Barclay and Murray or down around Warren Street,
somewhere over there.  I know we were -- let's
see, Chambers -- we may have gotten down about
here, I would say down around Murray and Barclay.
     Q.   Do you recall anything on your way down
there, meeting up with any other EMS personnel
along there that you remember?
     A.   There might have been some personnel,
but we didn't really have an encounter with them
W. SIMON 16
because they basically were responding north, and
that was our instructions, to tell any units that
were on West Street to respond north and where to
respond.  So we were assuming that all they had
to do was continue north and they would run into
the new staging area.
     Q.   Right.
          Other than Lieutenants Fenton and
Pinkus, do you remember any other officers up at
Chambers?
     A.   No, they were the two officers that --
there may have been more, but those are the
officers that I actually had conversations with.
     Q.   Any other thoughts or comments you'd
like to add?
     A.   I guess the only thing that I can say
is that after the events of that morning, the
tragedy, I get up every morning and I appreciate
waking up more every morning.  I appreciate my
family more, my wife.
          My heart goes out to all those families
that even today have no closure on the
whereabouts, and may never have closure.  I'm
saddened just to think about the evil which
W. SIMON 17
wrought this type of devastation.
          My coworkers and associates, I hope
that they will not have died in vain.
          MR. RADENBERG:  The time is now 1644,
     and the interview is concluded.
File No. 9110116
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
          EMT RENAE O'CARROLL
   Interview Date:  October 18, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
                  R. O'CARROLL                  2
          MR. TAMBASCO:  Today is October 18th.
     I'm Mike Tambasco assigned to the World
     Trade Center Task Force.  I'm at EMS
     Battalion 39 in the lounge.  The time is
     1603 hours.  We're conducting an historical
     interview with EMT Renae O'Carroll from
     working unit 39 Mary 2 on September 11th.
     Q.   Renae, tell us your story.
     A.   My partner Eddie Rodriguez and I logged
on that morning at 8:00 39 Mary.  Our first call
came about 8:20 that morning -- no, more like
8:35, downtown Brooklyn.  The call was a dupe to
another unit's job.  I can't remember.  I think
it was a 31 unit.  I'm not sure.
          We gave our position to the dispatcher
that we were 98.  We looked up and we saw this
big mound of smoke.  We turned the radio on, and
we heard a lot of screaming and noise on the
radio.  We pulled over, went into a laundromat,
because we saw a lot of people crowded around a
television.  That's where we saw what was going
on.
          We called up the dispatcher.  It was
really hard to get through.  We went on Manhattan
                  R. O'CARROLL                  3
frequency.  That was the only one that was
working.  We told them that we would like to go
down there and help if they needed anyone else.
Q. Right.
     A.   They said, "Yes, we were trying to call
you, we didn't hear you, to send you over there."
          We went down Atlantic Avenue going
towards the Manhattan Bridge, and the heat was so
intense, so intense, you could actually feel it
while you were up on the bridge.  I mean that
intense you could feel the heat.  Cars were
coming this way, and we were driving that way.
          They assigned us to go to Church and
Vesey.  We were going towards that area.  The
cars are coming this way.  People are screaming
and running, and we're going the opposite
direction into the mess, into the belly of the
beast of this thing.  I still can't believe I had
the nerve to do that to this day.
          We got down there, and the scene was
just horrendous.  I've never seen anything like
this before in my life.  You were kind of afraid,
but you knew you had a job to do.  You knew there
were people in there.
                  R. O'CARROLL                  4
          We went to the corner of Church and
Vesey.  That's where they had staging at.  We
were the third vehicle in line, one of the first
units actually down there.  The lieutenant there
just said feel around and pick up whoever you
can.
     Q.   You don't know who the lieutenant was,
do you?
     A.   I can't remember.
          At that point it was just mass hysteria
down there.  Nothing was really organized,
because the mounds of people were just running
all over the place.  You were just picking up
people that you saw screaming.  That's how
horrendous the scene was down there.  We had our
staging area, but because of the mass amounts of
people -- you had FBI, you had police officers,
you had corrections.  You had everyone who was
anyone down there.
          We grabbed three people off of the
ground.  We had an elderly lady.  She looked like
she was burnt.  At that time there was really no
triaging.  You were just pulling out of the
mounds of people those that looked like they were
viable.
R. O'CARROLL                  5
          We had three ladies, one elderly.  She
looked like she might have been burnt, maybe
heat-related, and two other ones.  One was
ambulatory, and the other two weren't.  We
grabbed them and put them in the vehicle.  My
partner said, "Close the door and let's go."
          We were down there for maybe 11 minutes
before the building fell.  My partner Eddie said,
go to the front and let's get out of here.  I
said we're going to go.  At that point --
     Q.   The building actually came down at that
point?
     A.   The building wasn't down yet.  I was
getting ready to pull out, and the transportation
officer waved me over.  He wanted to tell me what
hospital to go to.
Q. Right.
     A.   I had my back turned towards the
building, because we were directly in front of
the building at Church and Vesey.  I had my back
to him.  He was facing the building, looking over
my shoulder.  He looked up, and he had the look
of fear on his face.
                  R. O'CARROLL                  6
          I heard something that sounded like
marbles crashing down.  At that point I looked
behind me.  I heard everyone say run.  I looked
behind me, and it was a gigantic blob of ash and
molt and fire and everything just behind you, and
I ran.  Everyone was running.
          I tried to grab people.  People was
grabbing on to me.  We were just running,
running, running.  I have never seen anything
like that before.  I understand what someone says
I looked death in the face.  That was death
coming to me.  That's all I know.
          I'm running.  I'm ahead of it.
Everyone's running, and it's just a stampede.
I'm about ten feet in front of it, running,
actually sprinting because I'm an athlete and I'm
running.  What happened when I got to the corner,
because I remember my feet hitting, coming off
the sidewalk, another blob of stuff came around.
          Ash came around another building in
front me, and it caught me in front of me and in
back of me, and everything was pitch-black.
Where it hit me from the front and the back, it
actually lifted me off the ground and threw me.
                  R. O'CARROLL                  7
It was like someone picked me up and just threw
me on the ground.
          Everything was pitch-black.  You
couldn't see anything.  All I saw was big bolts
of fire, fire balls.  I could feel the heat
around me.  It was pitch-black.  I couldn't see
anything at all.  My lungs, my airways,
everything filled up with ash.  I couldn't
breathe.  I couldn't see anything.
          I got back off of the ground, and I'm
moving around.  I heard people screaming, begging
for help.  I could feel something on my ankle; I
don't know what it was.  It was pitch-black, and
I'm feeling.  At this point I walk into
something, and it knocked me on the ground again.
I don't know what it was, but I hit my forehead
on something.
          It was just basically dark.  I had
never been through anything -- I thought I was
dying.  The only thing I could see was balls of
fire, just balls of fire.  At one point I thought
I was on fire because it was that close to me.  I
could feel the heat.  I said to myself, wow, I'm
on fire.  This is what it feels like to be on
                  R. O'CARROLL                  8
fire.  I don't know what it feels like to be on
fire.  I thought that's what it feels like to be
on fire.
          At this point I couldn't breathe
anymore.  I lie on the ground.  I couldn't even
get up.  I couldn't move.  I couldn't do
anything.  I thought I was dying.  That's
basically it.  I thought that I was dying.
          At this point I laid down, and I
started saying my prayers.  Having memories of my
kids, my mother, people at work.  I mean, my
whole life is just flashing in front of my eyes.
What they say is true, everything is just
flashing.  I accepted it, because I didn't feel I
could move on.  It took the wind out of me and
everything.
          I just lie there and I was praying.  I
looked up to my left, and I saw a light opening
up in the sky.  I figured that maybe the ashes
and stuff is clearing a break.  It was a
beautiful day out.  The day was sunny, bright and
warm.  I remember very well, it was a beautiful
day.
          I looked up and it didn't seem like the
                  R. O'CARROLL                  9
sky; it seemed like a different type of light.
Whatever this light was I was looking at, it made
me feel safe and secure.  I felt that that was
the light that everyone's talking about.  I said
to myself at that moment I guess this is the
light, I guess this is my time.  I felt it was
opening up and it was my time to go.
          I didn't have any fear.  Whatever fear
I had prior to that, I didn't feel it.  I just
felt safe like someone was cradling me, and I
accepted it.  I was getting ready to die.  I was
losing my breath.  Something told me -- I looked
to the left on the ground, and I saw a red light.
I don't know what that was.  I'm thinking it's
another light.
          I can laugh about this now.  At that
time I couldn't laugh about it.  I couldn't laugh
about it.
          And that's when I put my hand to the
left to see what that light was, and I felt
glass.  What happened to me was just a miracle.
The glass door opened up.  It was a door.  It
opened up.  It opened up, and it felt like
someone put their hands under me just pulled me,
                  R. O'CARROLL                 10
picked me up and pulled me.
          I rolled down some stairs, and the door
behind me closed.  Down there it was a basement
to somewhere.  I remember there was a subway
station that I ran past.  I figured maybe it was
the other side of the subway station.
          The first thing I saw when I got up was
a bucket of mop water.  I needed to clean my eyes
out.  I took and I put the mop water in my face.
I felt, whatever's in this water, if that didn't
kill me, this is not going to.  I took and I
washed my face off just to see, because I
couldn't breathe and I was blind.  I could feel
my J.V.D.  My neck was rigid.  I felt that I was
still dying.
          I felt around.  I could see only maybe
half a foot in front of me, half a foot in front
of me.  I'm doing like this, and I'm feeling.  I
saw something that said "men."  It was a men's
room.  I couldn't get the door open.  It had a
padlock just like this station door.  I couldn't
open it up.
          There was one that said ladies' room
across there, and I started saying, "God, how am
                  R. O'CARROLL                 11
I going to get in here?  You brought me in this
far.  You're going to let me die down here?"  I
started questioning him, "Why didn't you let me
die with everybody else up there?  Why bring me
down here?"
          What happened next was very amazing.
From out of nowhere I just pressed the numbers
325, and the door opened up.  And that's the same
numbers that we have on the station door.
     Q.   On the station lock.
     A.   325.  That was the only numbers I could
think of.  I couldn't think of any other numbers
to a padlock.  It opened up.
          When I got inside of there, there was
water.  I turned the water on, and I washed my
face.  I cleared my airway out.  I made myself
vomit to get the stuff out of me.  I cleared my
nose out.  I did that again.  I looked in the
mirror to make sure that I didn't have any more
J.V.D., and that was going away and I was able to
breathe better now.
          I drank some water.  Now I really
needed to flush my eyes, but the water wasn't
coming out fast enough in the faucet.  So what I
                  R. O'CARROLL                 12
did, I went and kneeled down over the toilet.  I
figured if upstairs didn't kill me, the toilet
water is not going to kill me either.
          I kneeled on it and I put my hand on
the flush and I let the water go down.  As it was
coming up, I washed my eyes out, and I was able
to see around me.  I looked around and saw I was
in a bathroom and that it had vents up there and
that there was no smoke in there.
          I wet paper towels and put it around
the door.  I was exhausted at this point.  I lie
down.  I found out later on when I lie down and I
went -- I don't know if I lost consciousness or
what.  I went to sleep.  I found out later that's
when the other building fell.  Because when I was
down there, that was the first building that
fell.
Q. Right.
     A.   I tell you, it's amazing.  It's really
amazing.  When I woke up, I don't know how --
they told me I was missing seven or eight hours.
I don't know.  I was asleep.  I was asleep.  I
was asleep a long time.
Igotup. Ihadnosenseoftime. I
                  R. O'CARROLL                 13
got up, and I start thinking what should I do?  I
need to get out of here.  I closed the door and I
checked the numbers again to make sure I wasn't
dreaming.  It opened up.  I was afraid to close
it.  I put something there.
     Q.   To hold the door open?
     A.   Yeah, because I knew I needed to get
back there.  Just so I wouldn't lose my way when
I go running around, I took some tissue paper and
I laid it out.
     Q.   A trail of bread crumbs?
     A.   Yeah, I did.  I made a trail to find
out where -- so I could get back there, because
that was a safe haven for me.  There was no smoke
or anything.
          I found out it was a boiler room,
because it had an engineering door and it had a
padlock on it.  Then there was another one that
said electrical.  It was basically a work area on
the side of the subway station.
          I found an open window.  I went to it
to get some fresh air.  I was afraid.  There was
nobody down there but me.  It was dark,
pitch-black, except a little light in the corner.
                  R. O'CARROLL                 14
I should have been afraid, but I really wasn't,
to be honest, because I felt now God was with me.
He brought me through all of this and there was a
reason I'm here and I didn't fear I was going to
die at this point, just how to get out of here.
Q. Right.
     A.   I couldn't remember how I got in there.
I didn't remember.
          I saw some stairways.  I went up the
stairways.  The door wasn't open on the first
floor.  I went up another flight.  It wouldn't
open.  The third floor let me in.  On the third
floor was two glass doors to an office.  I saw a
phone.  I'm trying to get in there, but it was
closed.  It had a doorbell on it, and I rang the
doorbell, like somebody's going to be there to
open it; right?  Like somebody is going to open
it for me.  I'm ringing it.
          I saw a fire extinguisher, and I'm
trying to get it out of the glass.  I had nothing
on me.  My radio had fallen, everything.  I
didn't have my cell phone on me.  I couldn't get
in, because I was going to crack the door if I
could get to the phone to call somebody.
                  R. O'CARROLL                 15
          At this point I was still tired.  I
wasn't breathing the way I should.  I was still a
little tired.  So I went back downstairs,
following the trail, and I went back in there and
I went back to sleep.  I don't know when I got up
again.  I don't know.  I got up again, and I said
I better go back out there again.
          I felt a little more rested.  I was
breathing a little better.  I walked the opposite
direction this time, and that's the way that I
found my way out.
     Q.   To the top of the street?
     A.   Yeah, because that was the glass door.
When I looked out there -- I got there, and I
looked out there.  It looked like hell.  There
were there on the ground.  No, there were parts
on the ground.  There was metal on the ground.
It was ashes and everything.  It looked like a
third-world country.  You had people running,
screaming.  Ambulances at this time was running
one man.
          I opened the door and did like this,
and someone grabbed my hand.  A police lady
grabbed my hand, and she dragged me.  I said,
                  R. O'CARROLL                 16
"Help me.  I can't really breathe."  She was
crying and everything like that.  We were pretty
much holding each other up.
          She jumped out in the street, and an
ambulance -- it was a private ambulance, maybe
Cabrini or New York Hospital.  I'm not sure.  At
this point they were riding one man with the
doors open and no equipment and whoever could
jump in jumped in.
          She took me and she threw me in the
bus.  She threw me in the bus.  The guy said,
"Get in and let's go."  She threw me in there,
and I said, "Please come with me."  I grabbed her
hand.  She said, "I can't.  I have to stay."  I
have to stay and help people.  She couldn't
breathe herself.
          I wish I could see her again one day, a
little small thing.
     Q.   You have no idea who she was?
     A.   I don't know who she was.  I don't know
who she was.  I got in there.  She might have
been an angel.  I don't know who she was.
          The ambulance made two more stops with
the door open.  No equipment in the back.  He's
                  R. O'CARROLL                 17
riding one man.  He's got ashes on him himself.
     Q.   At this time how late was this?  Do you
have any idea?
     A.   I don't know.
     Q.   No concept of time?
     A.   I had nothing.  I don't know anything.
I didn't know anything until I got to the
hospital.
          At this point he stopped to let two
more people in, a police officer, an Officer
Palono from the first transit -- from District 1,
I think it was.  I don't know.  He came in.  He
was saying, "I can't breathe."  I found one
pediatric oxygen mask.  I turned it on, and I
gave it to him.
Q. Right.
     A.   I helped him.  I put it on him and told
him it's going to be okay.  I'm not all right
myself.  I said, "You're going to be okay."  I
said, "Let's pray."  Then they stopped and
another elderly lady, I grabbed her hand, pulled
her in and shared the mask between the two of
them.
Q. Right.
                  R. O'CARROLL                 18
     A.   We laid back there, just on the floor,
sat there and prayed.
          The ambulance pulled up to -- I found
out later it was Beekman Hospital.  There someone
opened the door, and they grabbed us out.  They
just grabbed people out and threw you on a
stretcher.  The first thing they did was to make
sure your airway was clear.  Then what they did
after that was take you and throw you in the
shower to wash all of this stuff off.
          I still had no concept of time.  I
didn't know what time it was.  It was still
daylight.  But because of all the ash and
everything flying around, it looked like it was
nighttime.
          Being in the hospital, it was like
being on a conveyer belt.  You went from one room
to the next.  They sent you from there to -- from
the shower they sent you to another room where
you got your eyes -- they put drops in your eyes.
Then they sent you back to the airway room.
There must have been a thousand people in each
room.  They were going down the line, actually
putting drops in everyone's eyes.
                  R. O'CARROLL                 19
          It was just the worst day that -- I
hope to God I never go through anything like that
again.  I've never seen anything like this
before, never, never, never.
          The job tries to prepare you for stuff
like this, but for something like that there is
really no way of preparing somebody for this;
there really isn't.  You wouldn't think in a
million years something like that would happen.
     Q.   Right.  What happened with your
partner?
     A.   I don't know.  I thought he was dead.
     Q.   You lost touch with him at that point,
and that was it?
     A.   I didn't even remember anything about
him.  I don't know.  I didn't remember anything.
I didn't remember anything.  I don't know what
even happened.  All I know is I saw a blob of
smoke, and that was it.  I don't know.  I felt
something lift me up and down the stairs.  I
don't know.  I don't know.  I don't know
anything.
          I remember my belt, my belt with my
pink scissors.  The building I was in, where I
                  R. O'CARROLL                 20
made the trail, my belt is down there with the
pink scissors on it.  So if ever they find it,
that's where I was.
     Q.   That's where you were.
     A.   Yes, I sure did.
          I was in the hospital I don't even know
how many hours.  Finally I made my way to a
phone.  They made an announcement that the phones
were up, that there's one phone on each floor
that the patients can use.  I was on a line of
maybe 80 people.
          When it got to be my turn, I called to
let them know I was okay.  The lieutenant was on
there.  He was crying.  The captain was on the
phone, Captain Medeiros.  He was crying.  I was
crying.
          That's basically it.  I stayed in the
hospital, and a unit brought me back to Division
4.  I took a shower there.  I cleaned up.  They
gave me a towel.  I didn't have anything on.  The
only thing I had left of mine was my boots.
          Someone brought me from there back to
Brooklyn, and the whole station, everyone from
all three tours was there.  When I came, they
                  R. O'CARROLL                 21
were clapping, and we all cried.  It was just
beautiful.
          But I'm glad that I was there and they
weren't, because it might have turned out
differently.
     Q.   Right, right.
     A.   It wasn't my time to go.  That's all it
is.
          That's it.  That's my story.
     Q.   That's a story all right.
     A.   Yeah.
I went back down there two weeks later to help out at the morgue, because it was really bothering me. I had to go back down there, because I felt I ran away the first time. This timeIhadtogobackandfaceit. Ihadtohave some closure. I had to go back down there and face it.
          I went back down there, and I said I'll
work staging, because I had to get over that
fear.  They said, "No, you're going to the
morgue."  I was in the morgue for 22 hours.  22
hours.  I had to get back there and face whatever
it was.
Q. Right.
R. O'CARROLL                 22
     A.   I know if something like that happens
again I'll just have to do my best.  I'll
probably still react the same way.  While people
are running out, I'll just go towards it.  That's
it.
          Do you have any questions to ask me?
     Q.   No.
A. That's it.
     Q.   Nothing else you want to say, that's
it.  Renae, thanks very much for your interview,
quite a story.
     A.   It is.
          MR. TAMBASCO:  This interview is
     concluded at 1625 hours.
File No. 9110117
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        LIEUTENANT WILLIAM RYAN
   Interview Date:  October 18, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
W. RYAN
2
          MR. CASTORINA:  My name is Ron Castorina.
I'm at Division 8 conducting an interview with
Lieutenant William Ryan.  With me is --
          MR. CUNDARI:  George Cundari.
     Q.   Your name, sir?
     A.   Lieutenant William Ryan, Ladder 85.
     Q.   Lieutenant, could you tell me, on September
11th, 2001, on that particular day, the events that
took place that you can recall?
     A.   I guess I'll start at the Staten Island
ferry.  That's where I was when I first -- you know, I
was on the bow of the Staten Island ferry.  I should
have been on the 9:00 o'clock boat, but they stopped
all the boats because both towers had been hit
already.  I didn't see the planes hit the towers.  I
just heard it.  They held the boat up, and I guess they
held the boat up for probably 50 minutes, 40 minutes,
to wait for the Staten Island police task force, and we
waited for them to load like four vans with like 40
cops.  Meanwhile, about 20 to 30 off-duty firefighters
assembled on the boat.  We were about parallel to
Governors Island when the first tower collapsed.
          MR. CASTORINA:  Excuse me one second.  The
time is 1:25, 1325 hours.
W. RYAN
3
     A.   The ferry boat was probably parallel to
Governors Island at the time the first tower came
down.  The dust cloud was pretty tremendous.  As soon
as they slipped into the ferry terminal, we got off the
boat and we started walking up.  We decided as we
approached that -- we could see the wind was blowing a
little from the west, so the cloud most likely would go
east.  So we decided to go west.  We figured it might
be a little easier to breathe.
          We had no idea what we were going into.  We
didn't know at the time it was a terrorist attack.  We
didn't know the towers had collapsed completely.  We
couldn't see anything from our vantage point.  We just
knew we were headed up there, figuring somebody needed
help, and we just went up.
     Q.   What did you think you were responding to at
that point?
     A.   Well, we knew we had fire.  We knew we had
partial collapse.
     Q.   From an explosion or --
     A.   Yes.  Well, we heard a loud boom when we were
getting ready to dock the ferry.  Probably the jet fuel
igniting, I assume.  I was with Deputy Chief Blaich and
Battalion Chief Billy Blaich, and about, like I said,
W. RYAN
4
20 firemen.  Some had bunker gear; some didn't.  We
were thinking chemical warfare also at the time.  We
actually did mention that on the boat because the
police had gas masks and we didn't.
          As soon as we got off the boat, we were in
the dust cloud.  You couldn't breathe.  I had a bandana
wrapped around my face.  It was hard to see.  Civilians
were all over covered with shit.  We just started
walking through Battery Park.  We were trying to go
west and go up north, west-north.
          When we got just to the other side of the
park, I assume -- I couldn't really tell you where I
was.  I just assume we were outside Battery Park headed
up West Street.  We ran into a couple of firefighters
who were dazed, confused, and we took their bunker gear
off them, asked them if we could have their gear, their
helmets and their coats, and we continued up.  By the
time we got to where we started operating out of
Liberty and West, we probably had about ten guys in
uniform.  We actually even found some Battalion Chief
and we took his handie-talkie off him.
          We weren't in there 30 seconds and we picked
up our first Mayday.  Chief Blaich had the radio.
Deputy Chief Blaich had the radio and he had a crew of
W. RYAN
5
guys, and the guy had told us, "Mayday.  Mayday.
Engine 65 with a Mayday.  I'm stuck in my rig.  My rig
is on fire."  The Chief just asked him, "Where are
you?"  He said, "The last I remember, I was parked on
West Street about 50 yards north of Liberty."
          We couldn't tell where we were.  I mean, I'd
even worked down there seven years.  I didn't know
where I was standing in the street.
     Q.   It was very foggy?
     A.   Visibility possibly 30 feet at best and you
could only see shadows.  You could see several fires,
dozens of fires, things blowing up, cars on fire, fire
trucks, 113 where I was working for a while on fire.
I've never seen anything like it.  No one ever has.
Chaos.
          So we find a street post and we dust off the
sign and we see we're at Liberty and West.  We assume
the guy is in the pile right to our left.  We had no
water.  We find a rig and we get it started.  The
hydrant is no good.  Together, as a unit, we decided
we've got to split up and get water.  So I said let's
stretch into one of the buildings close to there and
use the standpipe water.
          We ended up getting water.  We got water
W. RYAN
6
through a standpipe.  We used a deck pipe, stretched it
two and a half, knocked the fire down.  Guys got in
there and they ended up getting the guy from 65 out,
and he was banged up pretty good.
     Q.   Who was that?  Do you know who that was?
     A.   That was the chauffeur.  I don't even know
his name.  I've seen his name on the list.  I didn't
know him.
          Then right from that, we just kept moving.
Me and all the other guys, I've spoken to them since, I
expected to find more people.  The fact is there was
nobody around.  It was gray.  I remember it being real
gray, dark.
     Q.   Both buildings were down at that time?
     A.   I assume, yes.  I don't know.  I guess they
were because they said -- I don't know.  They were 18
minutes apart?  Yes.  So the first command post, as I
found out later on, was crushed.  That was under that
bridge.  65's rig was just south of that bridge that
collapsed where the first command post was set up.  I
know that from talking to friends later.  It's probably
this bridge right here, this pedestrian bridge.  The
furthest north one collapsed, and 65 was probably right
about here, this guy, somewhere.  He's right in front
W. RYAN
7
of this building because we took water from this
building, stretched to a pumper here, and we worked our
way down.  I mean, everything was so hard to work.
     Q.    It's marked on the map?
     A.   You're climbing over tons of debris.  I
assume he was under about two or three stories of
I-beams.  It was a nightmare.  This pedestrian bridge
was still up.  So we were by there.  That's the only
thing I can use as a landmark, basically.
          When we got word that they were getting him
out, I kind of left because they really didn't need me
over there anymore.  They had a bunch of guys, and
Chief Blaich grabbed me back over here and wanted to
try to do something else.  We were working in the
pile.  We were just looking for guys.  He picked up a
Mayday again.  I think at that time we picked up a
Mayday for 39 Engine and I think Ladder 6, and he was
trying to get coordinates as to where we were.
          We still had no idea what was going on.  I
didn't know the towers had both collapsed all the way.
We didn't know.  A couple of guys I've talked to since
then said they didn't know.  No one knew.
          Then we just started more lines trying to put
out some of the fires.  At that time we had no idea of
W. RYAN
8
the magnitude of what we were up against.  It was like
pissing in the street.  We just started knocking down
fires.  There were all kinds of fires all in here.
There was a big fire going right here on Liberty right,
I guess, west of 10 and 10, they are over here
somewhere.  We were over here.
          So we have no water.  We were operating off
whatever standpipe water was coming out of the
standpipes in the adjoining buildings.  The hydrants
were no good.  Later on someone comes up with a line
from the street, but that's like three hours later.  We
just kept searching.  We were just looking around for
bodies.  Guys were coming out.  Firemen were coming out
of the pile.
          I ran into the probie from 5 Truck that I
knew, Frucci, Bill Frucci, and he survived both
collapses.  He jumped on 5 Truck's rig.  I was up in
here somewhere by Liberty, just next to the No. 2
tower, I guess, right to the left of it, and I found
him stumbling around.  He was covered with debris.  I
asked him where the rest of 5 was and he was like,
"They're all dead."  I said, "What do you mean?"  He
said, "Well, they're in the tower."  Then I questioned
him again, "Where were you?"  He was fuzzy.  So I sat
W. RYAN
9
him down.  I had put water in my backpack that I
grabbed from the ferry.  I gave him a bottle of water
and I sat with him and I told him, "Just sit here for a
minute."  I made him sit about a half hour.
          We kept searching, looking through the piles
for guys, and guys were coming out.  There were firemen
coming out of that pile.  I went back to him later.  He
ended up telling me later that Lieutenant Warchola
wouldn't let him in the building.  He ordered him to
stay outside.  He survived both collapses standing in
front of 10 an 10.  I don't know how he did it.  He
said the first time it blew him into 10 and 10, and
then he got up and started looking for guys, and then
the second one came down.
     Q.   Did he say where Rescue 5 was?
     A.   Ladder 5 that was.
     Q.   Or Ladder 5?
     A.   He just told me they went into the tower.  He
didn't know.  I know now that they were in the north
tower.  They were in the first tower.  I spoke to the
guys.  24 Engine was in the same house with them.  They
survived.  A Lieutenant from there told me they were
both on the 37th floor together and some Chief came
running by and told them to drop their gear and get
W. RYAN
10
out.  He said they had no communications on the
handie-talkies.  That was the only message they got.  5
Truck went right.  24 Engine went left.  5 is all
dead.  24 is all alive.  They have a story of their
own.  They ended up carrying some woman down the whole
way, not the whole way, nine stories.
          Anyway, back to me, we just kept busy.  Time
was flying.  I had no idea where time was going.  The
first time I looked at my watch, it was 1:30 in the
afternoon.  I was very thirsty.  I stopped for water.
I had hooked Frucci up with a couple of other guys that
were walking around, stumbling around, and we assisted
them all and told them to head to the ferry.  I told
them head to the boats.  Basically, the advice we were
giving everybody was get off Manhattan, get off
Manhattan as fast as you could.  We wanted everybody to
get out of there because we didn't know what was going
on.  We knew something big was up, but we didn't know
how big.  We had fire all around us.  Fire was
everywhere.  90 West, which is this building right
here, was fully involved.
          Looking back at my notes, we had almost a
third alarm assignment of firefighters in there at one
point or volunteers that came up afterwards.  Chief
W. RYAN
11
Hayden came later.  He ended up moving the guys out of
there.  But I'll get back to that.
          So at this point we just keep looking through
the debris, assembling guys, trying to get our act
together.  We were taking tools off the trucks that
were there.  We had no masks, no equipment.  I was
still in just a T-shirt and sneakers.  So Deputy Chief
Blaich grabbed me, and that's when he asked me if I had
a notepad, and I started writing notes and he made me
the command post coordinator.  He had a handie-talkie
and he was communicating with his brother Billy, who
was up in the pile somewhere talking to 6 Truck.
          They ended up making a rescue later.  I don't
know.  I wasn't involved in that.  I know at 1:33 p.m.
is when they got them out because I wrote that down.
When they mentioned that they were getting them out,
that they were out, I wrote it on the pad, 1:33 p.m.
So I basically got stuck over here now.  I'm on top of
Squad 1's rig that's now crushed.
     Q.   You were there?
     A.   Right here.  They were parked on Liberty,
right on this corner, I guess.  They were on the
southwest.
     Q.   Liberty and West?
W. RYAN
12
     A.   Liberty and West.  They're right here.  Squad
1.  Rescue 5 was parked here.  We were using this
engine here to pump off of and there were a bunch of
rigs, ambulances all over, cop cars, everything
crushed, on fire.  All the rigs over here were on
fire.  These rigs were on fire.
          So, basically, what was happening now, guys
started showing up.  For a while there it was just the
ten of us, and then now, all of a sudden, I don't know
where they were coming from, but firemen for some
reason started showing up over here.  It was pretty
good, actually, because they must have spotted me up
there and they started coming up and we started
assembling them as companies.  Five guys.  If we had an
officer, we would stick an officer with them.  Chief
Blaich would just turn around to me and say, "Send me
ten guys, give me six guys, give me eight guys, ten
guys."  I kept pointing to him up in here somewhere, I
guess, and he would just send them out where he had to
send them.
          We started getting bigger and bigger.  I
wrote down how many companies.  Chief Mosier, who works
here now and I work with him, was in charge of 90 West
trying to put the fire out, and later on Chief Hayden
W. RYAN
13
came up and relieved Chief Blaich basically, told him
to move up.
          Now I'm standing next to Chief Hayden and
some guy from OEM office -- Hayden was at the job.  I
didn't know.  He knew so much more than me.  I didn't
have a handie-talkie, so I had a disadvantage.  I
didn't know what they were communicating to one
another.  But he got up on the rig next to me and he
said basically his concern was that he didn't want to
lose anymore firefighters, that too many guys were dead
already, and he basically called Mosier aside and told
him, "Get everybody out of 90 West.  Fuck the
building.  Let it go."
          Later on he came over and told me, as I'm
standing next to him, you know, I was still assigning
companies, the street is filling up with guys, starting
to flood up with guys.  I assumed by now it was about
2:30 in the afternoon.  He kind of took me on the side
and he said -- at this point it started to clear.  You
could see a little bit and now you could see that thing
sticking up over here, I don't know what it was, that
thing that you always see now in the pictures, and I
realized that the tower was gone.
     Q.   This is the first time that you realized that
W. RYAN
14
they both had collapsed?
     A.   Yes.  About 3:00 o'clock in the afternoon.
     Q.   3:00 o'clock in the afternoon?
     A.   And I realized fucking everyone's dead.
     Q.   You were initially there at just before
11:00?
     A.   I guess 10:30, 11:00.  I assume, looking back
and thinking, the second one must have collapsed as we
were walking up.  We heard it.  But you couldn't see
anything.
     Q.   You couldn't see in all the smoke?
     A.   You couldn't see anything.
     Q.   Were people running towards you, away from
you?
     A.   Oh, yes.  There were people all in Battery
Park, people all over the place.  We didn't run through
that major crowd I see on the news now.  But they were
all along the fences.  There were civilians everywhere
covered with shit.
          I remember Chief Hayden saying to me, "We
have a six-story building over there, a seven-story
building, fully involved."  At that time he said, "7
has got fire on several floors."  He said, "We've got a
ten-story over there, another ten-story over there, a
W. RYAN
15
six-story over there, a 13-story over there."  He just
looked at me and said, "Fuck 'em all.  Let 'em burn."
He said, "Just tell the guys to keep looking for guys.
Just keep looking for the brothers.  We've got people
trapped.  We've got to get them out."
          That was our focus for the next 48 hours, and
basically that's it.  I don't know.  After that, I
remember the next biggest project was to find our men
from the north.  Now I realized that there were other
people around.  There was a northwest command post.
They were up here somewhere.  Then I heard there was
another command post over here somewhere.
          Chief Hayden must have come down from here
because I remember we were running through these
buildings.  This is what we were using to get back and
forth to talk to one another.  There was a lobby here
you could cut through and you'd come out over here.
This glass was all crushed.  You would come out on this
side and we were running messages back and forth
sometimes when we had to get stuff up there and you
couldn't get through on the radios.
          Then we found out, I guess around 3:00
o'clock, that they thought 7 was going to collapse.
So, of course, we've got guys all in this pile over
W. RYAN
16
here and the main concern was get everybody out, and I
guess it took us over an hour and a half, two hours to
get everybody out of there.
     Q.   Initially when you were there, you had said
you heard a few Maydays?
     A.   Oh, yes.  We had Maydays like crazy.
     Q.   You were getting radio transmissions?
     A.   There were people talking.  The guys I've
talked to that were with us heard voices and were
shouting to people.  We had heard pass alarms, but then
we didn't hear voices, no more pass alarms.  The heat
must have been tremendous.  There was so much fucking
fire there.  This whole pile was burning like crazy.
Just the heat and the smoke from all the other
buildings on fire, you couldn't see anything.
          So it took us a while and we ended up backing
everybody out, and that's when 7 collapsed.  Then,
basically, after 7 collapsed, I went over and told the
Chief that -- by then they had companies with
handie-talkies, masks.  You've got to remember, the
first 200 guys went in there with no handie-talkies, no
masks, some of them with bunker gear, some without.  A
lot of guys I recognized.  I'm on the job 23 years, so
I know a lot of guys, and they were just coming up to
W. RYAN
17
me.  It was good to see everybody was there trying to
do something.
          Basically, we fell back for 7 to collapse,
and then we waited a while and it got a lot more
organized, I would guess.  By then there was some heavy
equipment showing up and the Chiefs took over, and I
basically kind of slipped away from the Chiefs because
I didn't want to be doing what I was doing anymore.  I
kind of felt stuck there.
          I just got myself up in the pile and did a
little digging and stuff, and I just looked around.  I
probably stayed until 2:00 a.m., and then I went home,
slept, got up the next morning and went back up there.
I didn't sleep well.  I just went home to have my wife
and kids see me.  I took a shower.
     Q.   Were you able to get in touch with your
family?
     A.   I had called my wife.  I called her from the
ferry.  She was at work.  She said, "Do you see what's
going on at the World Trade Center?"  I actually was on
the Staten Island Rapid Transit.  I said, "Yes.  I can
see it from the train window."  So she said, "What are
you going to do?"  I said, "Listen, I've got to go
there."  She said, "All right.  Be careful.  I'll see
W. RYAN
18
you later."  I told her I loved her and I just left.  I
was at the ferry when I called, and I ended up calling
her again at about 4:00 o'clock in the afternoon from a
position over here.  I went in there to take a leak and
I just looked around.  I guess when we fell back for 7
to collapse I called her.  I found a phone that worked,
a landline, and I got through to her.  I didn't know
the Pentagon got hit.  I didn't know.  She started
telling me all that shit.
     Q.   She was relieved to hear from you?
     A.   I was crying and I just -- that's it.
Basically that's it.  I mean, the rest is history.  But
that was my first half hour or whatever.  Just five
hours of chaos.
          MR. CASTORINA:  This concludes the interview
with Lieutenant William Ryan.  The time now is 1:42,
1342 hours.  Thank you, Lieutenant.
          LIEUTENANT RYAN:  Thanks, fellas.
File No. 9110118
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
             EMT MARK MAZUR
   Interview Date:  October 19, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
M. MAZUR 2
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today is October 19th,
     2001.  I am Paul Radenberg of the Fire
     Department, City of New York.  The time is
     now 0651 hours.  I am conducting an
     interview with --
          EMT MAZUR:   Mark Mazur, EMS command,
     shield 3613.
          MR. RADENBERG:  We are conducting the
     interview at the Division 4 office, and this
     interview is regarding the events of
     September 11th, 2001.
     A.   Pretty much that day started like any
other normal day.  I logged in at 6:00 in the
morning.  Around 8 or so I was monitoring
citywide radio.  One of the officers heard all
the commotion going on on citywide.
          I called my counterparty, who was on
the road with the LSU truck.  So we could man the
MERV van, and that was specialist Bobby Short.
          When he came in, we went downstairs.
We were watching the TV and found out that a
plane had hit the World Trade Center.  So we load
up the MERV van with new equipment that it needed
in the truck, stuff like that, the ALS equipment.
M. MAZUR 3
I threw my equipment in the LSU truck.
          We met Assistant Chief Pete
Carrasquillo at the division.  He loaded up his
car with the duty captain and his aides, and they
went up to -- they were going down to the event.
They told us to relocate to Battalion 45
Woodside, wait for Lieutenant Hadala and any
personnel that come down to respond into the
event.
          Pretty much the radio was -- all you
heard was like commotion going on.  You couldn't
get through to the dispatcher, because they knew
that LSU 4 and MERV van 4 were responding in.  We
finally got through to them for that.
          We were coming over the 59th Street
bridge.  We were looking over at the towers, and
you could actually see the people jumping.  At
first I thought it was funny, because you see
these little X's coming off.  You say, "What the
hell are these things?"  You're thinking then
those X's are people coming off.
          As we were coming over the last bit of
the 59th Street Bridge, tower one collapsed.  The
radio pretty much went dead.  When we came in, I
M. MAZUR 4
tell you, what helped us out the most was the
traffic department.  You know, those guys are
always made fun of.  They had everything shut
down, and we had such a breeze coming over the
bridge.  The traffic was shut down.
          When I hit 57th Street, everything was
shut down and we just came down like gangbusters.
When we respond with a MERV, we need two escort
vehicles, because that thing doesn't go fast
enough.  So if you try not to stop it, you can
get there faster.  So we were blocking streets.
          We got to the West Side Highway, and we
saw a lot of people walking down.  When we
arrived 84 at the scene, where the first, I
guess, staging area was, a lot of firemen there.
Everybody was packing up and getting their hose
packs and bottles and stuff like that, and
walking down.
     Q.   Do you remember what street that was?
     A.   West Side Highway.
     Q.   And the cross street?
     A.   Not offhand.  If I looked on this
little thing that you have here, if that's the
foot bridge, it had to be the first one by Warren
M. MAZUR 5
Street.  Then Warren Street, we crossed over the
other side of West Side Highway.  We came down
the opposite side of the West Side Highway facing
out, because we had a bunch of fire apparatus
that were parked all the way down.
          So we stayed on the other side to come
up, and then we crossed over by Vesey.  That's
where the MERV was.  We started staging up over
here.
          Lieutenant Hadala and his command car
came on the other side of the West Side Highway
with me, and then I parked just on the other side
of that foot bridge by Stuyvesant School, I guess
it is.
     Q.   Stuyvesant, I believe, is up here by
Chambers.
     A.   Then it's this --
     Q.   This is the American Express.
     A.   That's what we did.  The white foot
bridge that comes over?
     Q.   Right.
     A.   Yeah, okay, I was just on the other
side of this, and I crossed back over.  Over here
you had a bunch of fire apparatus that was on the
M. MAZUR 6
south side of the street.  What I did was I nosed
my truck in between them, because I needed the
back doors of my truck, I don't need the front.
Q. Right.
     A.   Then, again, I noticed firemen carrying
hose packs, bottles and stuff like that.
          After I parked my truck, I started
taking my equipment out and all of a sudden I
heard this sound.  It sounded like a jet, a high,
whistling sound.  There was like a rumble behind
it.  It was like a jet with a locomotive behind
it.
          I heard people screaming.  All of a
sudden, the firemen that were behind me were
throwing their hose packs down.  When I came out
of the back of the truck, I looked up and I saw
the second tower coming down.  The second tower
was coming down.
          Everybody just started to run down the
West Side Highway.  So with this I jumped out of
the truck.  A police car was coming up.  It was
snaking the traffic like I did.  He stopped
behind my truck, threw it in reverse and was
going back.  I jumped on his hood, because I
M. MAZUR 7
can't run that fast.  I rode that for about a
hundred feet.  He hit a car, and when he hit the
car, I rolled off the hood again and I just kept
on running down the street.
     Q.   Was he going back up north?
     A.   Yeah.  When the building came down, it
had to be like a ten-story dust cloud or storm
that came after us, and you didn't know what the
hell was in there.  All you saw was papers and
you could see like the light in the papers.  You
didn't know if it was glass or whatever.  It just
turned the whole street dark, and it just came
over.  The best I could describe it is like a
tidal wave that was coming towards us.
          By the time I stopped running, it was
like Barclay or -- you really couldn't tell,
because when it hit you, it actually knocked you
down, the motion of that pressure behind that.
When I got up, there was dirt and dust
everywhere.  You really couldn't see.  You
couldn't breathe.
          I made it back to the LSU truck.  I had
about, I'd say, 10 to 15 firemen in the back of
my truck.  They were bewildered.  They didn't
M. MAZUR 8
know what to think.  So I pulled my multi-laters
out of the back with these subway manifolds, so
you can give multiple O2.
Q. Right.
     A.   I hooked them up, and I started to give
a O2 to everybody.  I pulled all my masks out, so
I gave them masks to guys that were still trying
to get up to the scene, to rescue people.
          Pretty much it was pandemonium going
on.  You could hear -- the thing was, I'm a
fireman, a volunteer fireman.  You could hear the
pass alarms going off, all over the place.  You
didn't know what you had.
          I was working there, there was a
Hazollah truck that was right across from me.
They were giving care to everybody.  I was
working with a guy from Hazollah, and you hear
these explosions going off.  It was crazy
because -- what the hell was going on?
          A fire lieutenant or EMS lieutenant --
I don't know, you couldn't tell because he was
covered with dust.  He came up to me and said,
"Does this truck run?"  I don't know.  It was
covered with papers from the World Trade Center
M. MAZUR 9
and dust.  He said, "If it runs, get out of here;
if it don't, then abandon the truck and just get
out of here.  We don't know if we're going to
lose the whole area, because there were gas leaks
under the sewer caps in the sewers."
          So what I did is I took everything that
I had out.  I threw it in the back of the truck.
The last patient I had was a Port Authority
female.  She was encrusted in this thing, in the
dust.  She couldn't see.  I put her in the front
seat.
          I got my truck started.  I backed out
and then we pulled down the West Side Highway
until we hit a safe area, which I don't know
where it was.  They had a fire hose hooked up on
a stanchion like a shower.  I took her out and
hosed her off.
          We ran into my friend Bobby from LSU --
from our MERV van.  Both of us moved our trucks
all the way down until we ran into two
lieutenants and Commissioner Claire.  We asked
him, "Where do you want us to go?"  Trucks are
needed, we're getting back in service.  He said,
"Wait here," and just kept on walking.  He really
M. MAZUR 10
didn't know what -- again, we were all -- nobody
knew what was going on.  We had no real command
stations.
     Q.   So you don't remember where that was
that you met up with him?
     A.   There was a restaurant there, Ponte's
at Desbrosses Street.  We were up by Desbrosses
Street.  That's where we were.  I went to that
restaurant one time.
     Q.   North of Chambers?
     A.   Yeah.
          While we were there -- when that blast
hit, that pretty much blew everything out of the
MERV van.  What we did, we got the MERV van
operational and got all the equipment back on,
put it where it was supposed to be, got it dusted
out as best as possible.
          We pulled the equipment out of the LSU
truck, because it had like two inches of dust
inside, the multi-laters were covered with dust.
I blew all the regulators out.  Now that was back
in service again.  Pretty much just threw all the
big debris that we had in the truck out.  My cab
was filled because the windows were open.
M. MAZUR 11
          The only thing that saved my truck was
because I angled in when I pulled in between
those trucks because everybody that was next to
me blew their windshields out of their trucks.
They got really blasted.  Mine, I had papers and
stuff like that inside, and dust and sand.  But
it saved my truck.
          Once we were at that staging area by
Desbrosses Street, we used my cell phone, because
it was the only one that was working.
Communications was screwed.  We got in touch with
citywide.  They deployed us to Greenwich Street
and somewhere down, I think.  Is Greenwich on
here?
Q. No.
     A.   Greenwich would be like up in here.  I
think this was Greenwich.  They sent us to
Greenwich Street.  We reported over there and set
up a treatment area.  Greenwich Street and
Murray, right over here.  There was I think some
kind of school or office building.
          We set up a treatment area utilizing
the equipment from the LSU and MERV van.  We had
a bunch of doctors from all around the country,
M. MAZUR 12
really.  There were all kind of doctors.  They
were here for a seminar.
Q. Right.
     A.   They shipped the seminar down there and
over to us.  So we begin working over there.
Again, we were just like covered with all the
dust and crap and all.
          Then the third building fell.  That was
over here.
     Q.   That was number seven, I believe.
     A.   There were a bunch of people standing
on the corner of Greenwich and Murray Street.  It
was funny because we had two lieutenants who I
didn't really know.  All of a sudden when the
building came down, it started stampeding all the
people.  When the people started stampeding, he
said, "Go out there and slow them down."
          Did you ever see Animal House?
Remember that guy?  I had that shot in my mind.
I said, "You've got to be crazy."  I'm a big guy.
These people are out there trampling.  So I stood
on the back of my truck, holding onto the door
rails saying, "Slow down, everybody."  People
were getting stomped in front of us.  Then that
stopped.
M. MAZUR 13
          We were there I'd say till about 8:30,
9:00.  Then they moved us over to the Battery
Park side.  They wanted the LSU and MERV over to
there, the treatment area.
          That out of the whole deal has to be
the most scariest part of the whole deal, because
when we picked up -- you have to picture -- I
don't know if you were there -- how heavy the
dust and dirt was.  When night came, it was just
dark, no lights in that area.  They had us
driving all different side blocks to try to get
on the other side of the World Trade Center.
          So we were driving down this one
block -- again, I don't know the names.  I was
following in the MERV.  It was smoky, dusty, and
you could hear a mouse it was so quiet.  It was
really eerie.
          When we came up this block we saw
burned out fire trucks, crushed ambulances,
burned-out police cars.  It looked like downtown
Beirut.  Plus you had fire hoses all over the
place.  We were jumping over fire hoses with the
vehicles.  The headlights didn't work because it
M. MAZUR 14
was so dark.
          All of a sudden you see silhouettes of
firemen pop up.  Guys like walking away from the
battle.  They're like, "Hey, brother, how ya
doing?  Got any water?"  They were just wiped out
at that point.  It's like, "Yeah, I've got a
water here."  You hand it out of the truck.
          It was the most eeriest feeling.  You
couldn't tell what was in front of you.  You
didn't know if there was another building like
leaning over.  You can see all these crushed cars
and vehicles.  What's up above me?
Q. Right.
     A.   They put us on the opposite side, the
Battery Park side.  They had us park in front of
a building.  Then a bunch of people came up and
said, "You have to move your truck because this
building is going to collapse."  I think it was
the American Express building.  It was unsafe or
leaning, or something like that.
          So they backed me up by the water.
Again, I don't know the street, those Battery
Park buildings, you know.
Q. Yeah.
M. MAZUR 15
     A.   Those high condos or apartments.  It
was right on the water.  We backed down this
block and we got the MERV and the LSU set up and
had a bunch of ambulances coming.
          That night we were there about -- we
got down at that point about 11:00.  We finally
got released from there -- we set up the
treatment area about 4:30 in the morning, quarter
to 5.  Then we were sent up to the command post
back on the West Side Highway.
          We got released about 7, 7:00.  It was
a pretty long day.  I came in around 6.  So I was
on borrowed time on that.
     Q.   When you were here by West and Vesey,
by the pedestrian bridge, do you remember, aside
from Bobby Short, any other EMS personnel, or
officers, that were there?
     A.   No.  Oh, by the time I got done
running, you had Tony Dimao, who's from M.T.D.
You had Mike Felice from M.T.D., deputy director,
the motor transport division.  It was funny,
because when I got done running from that blast,
I turned around and said Tony -- because you
couldn't see the block anymore.  I turned around
16
to Tony Dimao -- we're always fighting to get a
new truck.  I think I need a new truck by now.
          He looked down the block and said, "I
think so."  I know he went back down again, Tony
Dimao and Felice because they got an engine --
they got a truck and a rescue truck out before we
lost them, the trucks themselves.  Unfortunately
the personnel was still in the building.  He told
me when they moved the trucks they had to move
some EPA escort.  The guy moved it and he said,
"Well, that's almost a million dollars of
equipment they were trying to get saved and get
out."  It's like a $7,000 high-tech (inaudible).
          Anything else I ran into?  Again, I had
the Hazollah guys there with me.  That's --
Hadala, Tony Dimao, Mike Felice.  I think I took
care of their boss.  I don't know who their boss
is.  I don't know if he was in charge of -- in
charge of fleet, because he had a knee injury.  I
took care of him when I went to that safe area
and got the shower.
Q. Right.
     A.   I gave him some ice packs because his
knee was all swollen.
M. MAZUR 17
          Again, we didn't know what was going
on.  When we responded in, we only knew a plane.
We didn't know about a second plane hitting.  We
saw the fire in the two towers, when we came off
the 59th Street Bridge.  We thought it jumped
over, but we didn't know a second plane had hit.
          When we responded in, we had the first
tower went down.  All we knew was that everybody
was gone.  Those are the people you work with,
like my chief and everything, the duty captain
and all.  They were in front of us.  They were at
the command post.  So we didn't know they were
still around until about 7:00 that night.
          I called up my division, this office,
and talked to somebody, and they said, "Oh, no,
we heard from this one, we heard from this one."
The lieutenants we were working with down on
Greenwich Street, they had no clue.  As far as
they knew, Chief Carrasquillo was missing,
Captain Deshore was missing, Captain Rivera,
Chief Brown's missing, Chief Mittleman's missing.
He went down the whole list.
          Then he said, "LSU is missing."  I
said, "Oh, stop there.  I'm LSU.  I know where I
M. MAZUR 18
am."
     Q.   There you go.
     A.   So we're back with the people again,
because they thought we were gone.  Their last
dispatch was that we were 84, up on the West Side
Highway up there.  We rectified that.
          After that they had me on the missing
list when they screwed up on something else.
That's when we called the division office and
finally talked to somebody and found out
everybody we worked with was pretty much still
around.
          Again, we didn't find out it was a
terrorist attack until we went to that safe area
by Desbrosses Street.  Getting the truck set up,
someone said, "Watch out for anymore aircraft."
"What are you talking about?"  We don't have
AM-FM radios in our trucks.
          They said, "Well, they hijacked so many
planes and this is an attack on America.  They
attacked the Pentagon.  We were totally
clueless."  "What are we talking about?  What's
going on?"  They said, "Watch out for any
aircraft.  If you hear any aircraft, duck down."
M. MAZUR 19
All of a sudden we heard the helicopters.  They
were guys coming in from New Jersey, cobras, so
they were our attack helicopters.
Q. Right.
     A.   Then about five minutes later what
really scared the hell out of us, we heard a jet
coming down.  It was an F-16 that came roaring up
the Hudson River.  It's like where the hell did
he come from?  Then it sunk in, they weren't
kidding, because I thought they were kidding us.
They said no, we're under attack.  I thought that
was somebody's wild imagination.
          All of a sudden this F-16 is whipping
down the Hudson.  I go, holy shit, this must be
really happening.  They are after us.  Now the
big boys are here.  You don't see military jets
flying over.
     Q.   Yeah, yeah.
          Who was the duty captain?
     A.   Rivera.
     Q.   Rivera?
     A.   Yeah.  He was trapped for a while.
     Q.   J.R.?
     A.   Yeah.  First day in Queens.  He was
M. MAZUR 20
happy too because I gave him a locker that day,
and everything.
     Q.   Do you remember who the aides were?
     A.   Katz, Jason Katz and Sal Sangeniti.
     Q.   Sangeniti?
     A.   Yeah, an Italian guy.  Sal Sangeniti is
Chief Carrasquillo's aide.  Jason Katz is Chief
Day's aide.  Chief Day is out with an arm injury.
     Q.   Chief Day was at --
     A.   He was not at the scene.  He's been out
with an arm injury.  The captain in the division,
he went in with Chief Carrasquillo, the captain
and Sal.
          Did you talk to Captain Deshore?
     Q.   Not yet.
     A.   She was trapped for a while.  She was
forward command.  We thought we lost her.  She's
a tough German captain, so we figured we would
find her in New Jersey.  She got rescued on the
boat.
Q. Right.
     A.   When the second tower came down --
before the second tower came down, they got them
off onto either a PD or fire boat.  She was in
M. MAZUR 21
there with some people from the treatment area.
We figured if she was in Jersey she was probably
ordering people around.  She's a tough captain.
          That's pretty much everybody we worked
with in Queens.  A lot of Queens people were
there.  Unfortunately, we lost Carlos Lillo.
     Q.   Any thoughts or comments?
A. The thoughts, again, it was unfortunately an unforeseen tragedy. If it happened again today, pretty much we would have todoitthesamewayrightnow. Ihavealotof friends that were in that building. Firemen on the job. All of us in that building would say, "We'll stay back here because it's safe."
          We all came in knowing there's risk on
this job and we know we have to go in there and
get people out.  They saved thousands of people.
You can't imagine how many people they saved.
Unfortunately they all lost their lives.
          A building that big, you can't try to
figure out every emergency that could happen to
it.
Channel?
Did you see that special on the History
M. MAZUR 22
     Q.   No.  I have it on tape.  I'm waiting.
     A.   Again, the guy said it.  He said it in
one sentence.  He said, "You can't figure out
kamikaze commercial jetliners."  No way you can
write that in the book.  You can't plan for
something like that.
          Again, we got caught really bad this
time.  I don't think anybody acted out of the
ordinary as far as bravery goes or doing their
job.  But they had to do what they had to do.
Unfortunately to the end.  If I had another job,
would I hold back?  No.  It's not in me.  If I
was going to hold back, I wouldn't be on the job.
It makes you really think, take stock in what you
have.
          Everybody did what they had to do.
Communications could have been better, but it was
hard because when we were coming up to the scene
all you heard was those people trapped, over the
command frequency and citywide.  It gave you that
much more adrenaline to get up there and try to
get these people.  When the second tower came
down, you had enough.
          The radios were pretty much dead.  The
M. MAZUR 23
800 trunking radios were working very -- you know
the 800 frequency?
Q. Right.
     A.   They were working very shabby.  You had
the repeaters on the World Trade Center.  That's
about it.  The cell phones weren't working.  Only
AT&T was working.
          But I got to admit, everybody stuck
together.  The system was working.  I lost my
beeper and my cell phone.  I found the cell phone
right away.  It fell in the back of the truck
when I jumped out.  When I jumped on the police
car, I must have lost my beeper in the Street.
          It's funny, about a week ago the police
property office, they called my Fire Department
and said, "We have a beeper."  They said they
checked and have it assigned to a Mark Mazur, is
he with your department.  One of the guys there
said, "Yeah, he works for the N.Y.C. Fire
Department."
          So they sent it in the mail.  I got it
back.  It's all beat up.  It's funny because I
got my beeper back.  I got my beeper back.  Out
of all that rubble and crap, I got a beeper back.
M. MAZUR 24
          It's amazing, totally amazing.  I was
floored by that.  I go, the system works.  You
figure thousands of people going around on the
West Side Highway, thousands of people, trucks,
and I got a beeper back.  So the system works.
          You had some cop down there in the
property room, and he called up.  Very weird.
There's a reason why we are the biggest and the
greatest department going.  You start thinking of
more and more stuff as far as when we pulled up
there, the debris that was there, and
unfortunately the people.
          Fortunately I wanted to work really
hard to take care of patients.  That's the
downside of it, the way that treatment area was
set up, we were waiting for thousands of
patients.  They never came.  If they arrived,
they arrived on the other side.
          That's it.
     Q.   Thank you.
     A.   Thank you.
          MR. RADENBERG:  The time is now 0721.
     The interview is concluded.
File No. 9110119
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        LIEUTENANT GREGG HADALA
   Interview Date:  October 19, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
G. HADALA
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today is October 19, 2001.
     The time is 0558 eight hours.  I'm Paul Radenberg
     of the Fire Department of the City of New York.
     Q.   I'm conducting an interview with?
     A.   Gregg Hadala, Lieutenant, EMS command, Shield
387.
     Q.   Of EMS Battalion 50.  We are currently at EMS
Battalion 50.  This interview is regarding the events
of September 11, 2001.  Start with --
     A.   Okay, I was conditions 54 that morning,
covering my regular area.  We started hearing about a
plane into the towers.  I was with another unit on a
call and we were listening on Department radios and the
news radios, something was going on.  I figured maybe a
little plane, an accident and we found out it was much
worse than that.  I wasn't sent in on it.  I was in the
area.  I was by -- sending messages that I could
respond to that area, do you want to send me.  I wanted
to get a view so I went by 69 Street and Grand Avenue.
          You could see the whole tower was on fire and
stuff, both towers were still up at that time.  People
were pulling over in their cars and looking at it and
everybody's like in shock.  I waited by 69 Street
before I -- people were getting out of my way and
2
G. HADALA
stuff. I didn't even have my lights or anything, I was
just driving regular and like everyone was like
listening to their radios in their cars.  They were
sending the MERV-4 vehicle, that's the big bus
outside.
          Finally after an hour they were sending it
and I knew it would be hard for them to get by in the
traffic and stuff, so I escorted, escorted them in to
Manhattan, to get over there so then they put me on the
job.
          We took Queens Boulevard -- we had to wait by
BN. 45, between the LIE and Queens Boulevard over
there.  Rather than send them in, they said wait there
for some reason.  So all right.  I escorted them over
to Queens Boulevard to the 59 Street Bridge, over on
57th Street, shot over to the west side, and then
downtown.  I was like -- traffic was clear.  They
closed all the access roads to emergency, you know,
emergency vehicles, so it was a clear sailing down
there and as we were going down, everybody is
evacuating from lower downtown.  All the people are
walking up in their suits and stuff, some were dusty.
It was like an end of the world thing.
          There was no direction really where we should
3
G. HADALA
go, where to set up.  There were supervisors, officers,
Chiefs, fire side, EMS side calling for help and like
just cries for help.  I think that's when the first
tower went down.  I figured that people were trapped,
people were dying, were dead already.  Let's see.
          I must have pulled up somewhere about 15
minutes or so before the second tower came down.  Came
up the West Side Highway, past 23rd and 14th.  There
was like vehicles coming from all over.  Staging.  Some
were going in, some were waiting.  We wanted to get a
little closer to treat patients, but not too close, so
we wound up by Borough of Manhattan Community College,
Chambers, a little past there.  Not all the way to
Vesey, but we could clearly see the tower in flames and
stuff and a lot going on.
          Just trying to size up what's going on.  We
were basically, you know, had to make our own decisions
because there was no upper command there telling us --
giving direction or anything.  It was like that for the
rest of the evening, so we had to do our best.  So
let's take a look, what's going on.  And so we grabbed
some people to see if there were any injuries, and
treated wherever.  While I was doing that, they said
look out, look out and the second tower crumbled and
4
G. HADALA
the shock wave and debris came.  I had the big bus with
me and another truck, the equipment truck.  There was
one medic with us.
          Everybody took cover.  Most of the people I
was with, I didn't -- I was away from my vehicle.  I
was going to dive under a truck.  It was a police truck
and some guy was in it already.  He said get in there.
It's open.  A Con Ed guy or something, so I rolled up
the windows and the dust, the shock wave passed over.
After a few minutes when the daylight came again, we
got out and assisted anybody who wasn't able to take
cover, and was covered with that stuff, and washed down
some firefighters and police officers and EMS guys that
were outside.
          Then we can go back in the debris area and
see injuries and stuff.  Then they made us evacuate
that area, they said there's another explosion, or said
there's a gas leak and made us all head up towards like
14 Street.  They told other units to go all the way up
to 23 Street.  Chelsea Piers.  Apparently it became the
staging area, so we got up to about 14th or so.  I'm
there, and you know, the big bus broke down so we had
to clean her up a bit, because it got all dirty.
          We got back going again and I let command
5
G. HADALA
know that I was back in service, where we were, they
told us to get over to another location.  I think was
probably near Vesey and Trinity, somewhere on the other
side, I guess most of the injuries were.
          By the time they gave us that direction, came
down, Chambers and a little past Chambers, I don't
know.  It might have been Barclay.  We wound up stuck
in traffic by another building where they had set up a
hospital area.  Whoever was in charge there just told
us to park there and work with the docs and the nurses
there.  We were waiting for victims and stuff but they
didn't come.  We just treated some rescuers that got
hurt trying to rescue, but we didn't get any more
victims from the Trade Center.
          We remained there for several hours.  Then
that night they directed us over to the Battery Park
City side.  All these streets here.  Just across the
street from the towers, Ground Zero, whatever they call
it now, and the apartment buildings.
     Q.   Down around Albany and West?
     A.   Yes, somewhere over there, close enough that,
you know, if they pull anybody out or any rescuers get
hurt, we're there to treat them.
Q. Right.
6
G. HADALA
     A.   We were there till like about 5 in the
morning.  Washed down some guys, gave some oxygen.
Finally were released 5 in the morning.  They had set
up some kind of command post on Chambers and West
Street.  There was an EMS Lieutenant and Captain
there.  I don't know where my vehicle is.  I didn't
know if it was still in one piece, whatever, you have
to worry about de-conning it, whatever.  They were
like, yes, right.
          Then I mentioned some missing equipment and
all that.  They were just like, whatever, go to your
vehicle, go back to your station, go home.  There were
firefighters, Battalion Chiefs, like, you know, needing
rides back to the Bronx and Harlem.
          We were like full already.  Just like -- I
don't know -- maybe guys who lost their companies and
stuff, they were just like, 6:00 in the morning.  It
was just like, you know, still just walking around.
Got back, there were some extra personnel in the area.
They de-conned the vehicles a little bit.  That was
it.  Then we went back, you know, over time towards --
     Q.   Right.  When you got in with the MERV to West
and Chambers, do you know who else -- who was driving
the MERV?
7
G. HADALA
     A.   Yes, it was EMT Short, Bobby Short.
     Q.   Short.  Recognize anybody else that was up
there?
     A.   A medic that came with them, Wilson
DiBrianno.  He had no partner or something, and was at
the station and jumped on.
     Q.   DiBrianno is from 50?
     A.   Yes, yes.  Also with us was the equipment
truck guy, Mark Mazur.  He drove LSU-4.
     Q.   Right.  Was there, when you got to Chambers
and West, was there any other EMS staging or command
area set up there or were you the first guys to get
there?
     A.   There was guys by 14 Street or so.  I think
we were like the first guys to push up towards Chambers
Street and after it collapsed, all units came up, there
was a couple of ambulances down there.  Fire trucks
from towns I didn't even recognize and ambulances.
     Q.   Was there any other EMS officers?
     A.   There was, yes, Lieutenant Pincus, and
another guy, he is from Battalion 8.  Another
Lieutenant, a Spanish guy.  I forgot his name, but he
was in the area.  Initially that's all I saw, no
supervision.  Later on after the collapse, I saw one of
8
G. HADALA
the Chiefs from our Division.
          One of the Chiefs, he was there.  He was
doing whatever he had to do, he checked on us.  I told
him the MERV was down.  It wouldn't start.  We were
trying to get it back together.  I don't know who
else.  I saw one of the new Captains.  She used to be
here, Janice.  They were taking her away in an
ambulance.  She was hurt. Olsz --
     Q.   Janice Olszewski, something like that?
     A.   Yes.  I saw she was hurt, all covered in
dust.  She was stable.  We were hearing things, this
one is dead, this one is missing, that one is missing.
Just frustration to see the tower on fire there and
knowing that people are in there and rescuers went in.
Firefighters, all those guys were in there.  You know,
when it collapsed, you said oh, man, it's like a lot of
people just died.
          There wasn't a lot of patients to treat.  It
was just, with something like that you figured it would
be in the hundreds, thousands of casualties.  Either
you made it out or you didn't.  That night you had to
drive all around lower Manhattan to get to the other
side there.  You'd go walking down by the graveyard,
all those areas around Battery Park City were all
9
G. HADALA
covered with that dust.
     Q.   Any particular event that stands out in your
mind for -- or struck you as odd or anything like that?
     A.   Just actually the collapse and the sound it
made.  It was like a strange sound, rumbling, not the
loudest thing you ever heard, not like a boom explosion
type thing, but just strange.  How fast it was
collapsing, you just started running.  Looking back and
seeing all the pictures they got after and the videos
they are showing over and over again.  Pretty bad day.
     Q.   Yes.  All right.  Any other thoughts or
comments you would like to add?
     A.   No, just as far as the medical staff was
concerned.  They were really not prepared, but nobody
was.  As far as like equipment, protective stuff, masks
and stuff for the EMS crews, there was none after a
while.  The other stations, they had more stuff, that
had no units involved.  We didn't have much in the way
of counseling and all that, checking on people's
equipments and checking on us.  You guys come down.
It's like a month later finally seeing what happened,
but we just felt that the EMS part could have been
better organized and watched out for us a little
better.
10
G. HADALA
          We are still waiting to hear about, you know,
nobody went down for medicals or anything after.  Some
of us got sick.  We were exposed to what we were and
you fill out this exposure report, send it down and get
no call backs.  We don't even know if they got it or
not.  If anybody has got problems later, it's a concern
that I have heard from our personnel.  And equipment
and what else to expect.  Like what's the plan.  If
something else happens what is our plan.  What do we
do.  Bioterror or whatever.  We used to have special
units to go in.  HAZTAC trucks and stuff.
     Q.   Right, ERS?
     A.   Yes, I mean talk about bad timing.  I think
that should be back on-line.  Working closer with the
fire side.  I mean, you know.  Everybody has to work
together and even closer, because our safety, our lives
are at stake.  I really don't see that happening, to
the extent that I think it should.
          So the people who didn't make it and stuff,
their families.  They don't even know how many people
were in the buildings and stuff.  I don't think they'll
ever know.  I've just been like working in sectors, on
overtime in the past weeks, just seeing very few whole
bodies going out, pieces of people, shoes and clothing
11
G. HADALA
with some bones inside.  I never saw anything like
that.
          Plus us police and firefighters on like 12
hour different tours.  And they have been pushing us
for over five weeks to run an extra unit.  RCC says
extra units, and this and that.  Like yesterday, they
tell me go down to the Trade Center in the morning.
There's not enough people on overtime so they pull
people from the station; ambulances, EMTs, and
supervisors.  So I get down there and they said oh, you
are cancelled.  We don't need you.  Go back on patrol.
          Two hours later they send me a message,
report back down there.  Went back to the city, and
they called the command and Chief (inaudible) was in
charge.  Oh, what is he doing there.  We don't need
them now.  Go back.  You think a month later they would
have it down how they want to do this.
          Take an overview and catch up on things,
recognize things that go well and try to tool up the
things that didn't go good as far as organizing us,
helping us out.  That's it.
          MR. RADENBERG:  Okay.  The time is now 0618.
     Interviewed is concluded.
12

FILE NO 9110120
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW DOMINICK MAGGIORE
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 19 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY MAUREEN MCCORMICK

MR TAMBASCO TODAY IS OCTOBER 19 IM MIKE TARNBASCO WITH THE WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE
CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH LIEUTENANT DOMINIC MAGGIORE EMS BATTALION 50 IN THE KITCHEN OF EMS BATTALION 50 THE TIME IS 0640 AM
ARID DARN IF YOU WOULD BE GOOD ENOUGH TELL YOUR STORY
WAS AT EMPLOYEE HEALTH SERVICE WHEN THE FIRST PLANE HIT HAD JUST BEEN CLEARED FOR FULL
DUTY BECAUSE WAS OUT WITH BROKEN TOE WAS ON MODIFIED DUTY FOR COUPLE OF WEEKS WHEN THE FIRST
PLANE HIT
AS WAS ON MY WAY BACK TO BATTALION 50 FROM BHS SAW THE SECOND PLANE HIT THE TOWERS FROM THE BQE CAME BACK TO BATTALION 50 AND GOT IN THE COMMAND CAR WITH LISA DESENA ONE OF THE DIVISION ALS COORDINATORS AND PARAMEDIC CHRIS LEFKADITIS AND WE RESPONDED IN
ON THE WAY IN OR AROUND WHEN WE ARRIVED AT WE FIRST RESPONDED TO THE STATEN ISLAND FERRY AROUND
THE TIME THAT WE FIRST GOT THERE OR ON THE WAY IN IM NOT REALLY SURE WAS WHEN THE FIRST TOWER FELL WHEN GOT TO THE STATEN ISLAND FERRY THERE WAS ONE BLS UNIT
THERE SHORTLY AFTER AND DONT KNOW WHICH UNIT IT

DOMINICK MAGGIORE
WAS IN THE CONFUSION
SHORTLY AFTER THAT AN ALS UNIT SHOWED UP
AND WE ESTABLISHED THE TRIAGE TREATMENT AREA AT THE STATEN ISLAND FERRY ON THE 2ND FLOOR OF THE FERRY TERMINAL COMMUNICATIONS WAS GONE BASICALLY USED MY CELL PHONE TO DO ALL THE MOST OF THE COMMUNICATION WITH CITYWIDE
WE SET UP TRIAGE TREATMENT AREA AS WE ESTABLISHED THE AREA YOU KNOW MORE RESOURCES STARTED SHOWING UP SOMEWHERE ALONG THE WAY AWHILE LATER CHIEF BASILE CAME AND TOOK COMMAND OF THAT AREA IT WAS WOULD SAY AT LEAST AN HOUR OR TWO INTO IT BY THE TIME YOU KNOW WE ESTABLISHED THE STAGING AREA AND THE UNITS STARTED TO RESPOND TO US
RIGHT
BASICALLY WE TREATED VERY FEW PATIENTS THE AREA IT WAS MASS CONFUSION BECAUSE THAT WAS THE
FOR THE EVACUATION OF DOWNTOWN SO IT TOOK BIT OF TIME AND ENERGY TO GET THE AREA SET UP
WITH THAT WE STARTED GETTING VOLUNTARIES AND VOLUNTEERS AND WE HAD PROBABLY 30 40 BEDS SET UP YOU
KNOW WITH PLENTY OF STAFF MEDICAL STAFF DOCTORS AND SUCH
WOULD SAY LITTLE WHILE AFTER WE WERE
STAGING POINT

DOMINICK MAGGIORE
BASICALLY ESTABLISHED DR RHERSON AND MANNY DELGADO CAME IN AND THEY GET THERE SHORTLY AFTER THE SECOND TOWER FELL THINK BECAUSE THEY WERE BLOWN FROM THE FORCE OF THE TOWER FALLING THEY WERE UP THERE
DONT KNOW TIME FRAMES REALLY CANT TELL LITTLE WHILE AFTER THAT CHIEF BROWN CAME IN
WE WOUND UP TREATING AND TRANSPORTING CHIEF BROWN BECAUSE HE WAS IN THE RUBBLE
COUPLE OF HOURS INTO IT IT WAS PRETTY OBVIOUS THAT WE WERENT GETTING TOO MANY PATIENTS AT THAT LOCATION AND LIEUTENANT PHIL SOTO WAS UP AT THE ONE LIBERTY PLAZA SCREAMING TOR HELP HE WAS RIGHT THERE THE RUBBLE WAS ACTUALLY GOT THERE
KNOW LITTLE WHILE LATER TOOK MY COMMAND CAR AND TWO MEDICS THAT CAME WITH ME LISA AND CHRIS AND WE WENT UP TO LIBERTY PLAZA AND IT WAS MESS
IT WAS JUST THE RUBBLE FROM THE TOWER WAS ON THE STAIRS ON THE TRINITY SIDE OF ONE LIBERTY
PLAZA BY THAT TIME IT WAS STARTING TO GET DARK IT WAS STARTING TO GET DUSK DONT KNOW WHETHER IT WAS THE DUST OR IT WAS STARTING TO GET DARK OR
COMBINATION OF BOTH
THERE WERE BUNCH OF BASICALLY VOLUNTEERS THERE WERE SOME JERSEY UNITS THERE SOME PRIVATE UNITS
YOU

DOMINICK MAGGIORE
THERE KNOW PARTICULARLY THERE WAS GIRL RHRIS FROM SOMEWHERE IN NEW JERSEY WHO KIND OF SET UP LIKE THE TRIAGE TREATMENT AREA IN THE LOBBY OF ONE LIBERTY
PLAZA AND BY THE WAY SHE DID AN EXCELLENT JOB
WHEN GOT THERE PHIL GOT THERE
LITTLE BIT BEFORE ME BUT HE WAS MORE INVOLVED UP ON THE RUBBLE PILE ESTABLISHED THE TRIAGE TREATMENT
YOU KNOW KIND OF FACE TO FACE WITH EVERYBODY
THERE WAS NUMEROUS DOCTORS NUMEROUS NURSES ALL VOLUNTEERS THERE WERE BUNCH OF PEOPLE ALL OVER THE PLACE
SPENT LOT OT MY TIME TIGHTING WITH THESE
PEOPLE TO KEEP THEM AWAY FROM THE PILE BECAUSE SOME SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT IT BEING STABLE WHICH
HAD
UNFORTUNATELY LATER ON PROVED TO BE TRUE BECAUSE THERE WAS SECONDARY COLLAPSE WHICH THINK WOUND UP
TAKING THE LIVES OF COUPLE OF THE PORT AUTHORITY OFFICERS WHO WERE IN THE RUBBLE
SOMEWHERE DURING THE COURSE OF THE NIGHT WAS THERE FROM DAYLIGHT ON TUESDAY UNTIL ABOUT SIX
OCLOCK SEVEN OCLOCK WEDNESDAY MORNING AND SOMEWHERE DURING THE COURSE OF THE NIGHT HAD
PROBLEM WITH AN ASSIST AMBULANCE CREW THAT THEY
WERE THEY HAD SMUGGLED REPORTER INTO GROUND ZERO
GUESS

DOMINICK MAGGIORE
IN THE BACK OF THEIR AMBULANCE
WHEN CONFRONTED THEM AND TRIED TO GET SOME
STRAIGHT ANSWERS THEY GOT BIT BELLIGERENT SO DID THE REPORTER AND CONVINCED HIM TO LEAVE THE AREA
BACK TO THE OTHER PART WITH THE RUBBLE WE HAD UNITS OPERATING CLOSE TO THE RUBBLE PILE AND
COUPLE OF TIMES ON THE RUBBLE PILE LIEUTENANT SOTO
AND AGREED THAT THAT WAS NOT GOOD SITUATION AND WE TRIED TO GET THE ATTENTION WE GOT THE ATTENTION OF THE FIRE SUPERVISORS AND THINK THEY KIND OF BACKED OFF TO THE EDGE OF THE RUBBLE PILE AND WERE PROCEEDING
LITTLE BIT MORE CAUTIOUSLY
WE PULLED OUT THINK ABOUT TWO OR THREE MORE
PATIENTS DURING THE COURSE OF THE EVENING DR GONZALEZ HAD SHOWN UP BECAUSE THERE WAS BUNCH OF
PROBLEMS YOU KNOW WITH DOCTORS STAYING OFF THE PILE PEOPLE YOU KNOW NARCOTICS BEING SENT TO THE FRONT
LINE YOU KNOW VIA ANYONE WHO SAID THAT THE DOCTOR UP FRONT NEEDED THEM YOU KNOW THERE WERE LOT OF
PROBLEMS LIKE THAT
SPOKE TO POLICE THINK HE WAS AN
INSPECTOR TWO STAR INSPECTOR COULDNT REMEMBER HIS NAME HAD ISSUES WITH THE PORT AUTHORITY COPS BEING UP THEY WERE PROBABLY 30 YARDS INTO THE RUBBLE

DOMINICK MAGGIORE
CLIMBING AROUND AND SHORTLY AFTER THAT WAS WHEN THERE WAS SECONDARY COLLAPSE
THERE WAS PORT AUTHORITY SERGEANT WHO CAME TO OUR YOU KNOW TREATMENT AREA AND HE REQUESTED SOME
NARCOTICS THE MORPHINE BECAUSE EITHER ONE OR TWO OF HIS OFFICERS WERE TRAPPED AND HE MADE STATEMENTS TO
THE EFFECT THAT THEY WERE GOING TO TRY AND CUT THEM OUT HE SAID HE WAS NURSE
WITH THAT TWO DOCTORS WHO WERE AT MY STAGING AREA NATURALLY VOLUNTEERED TO GO UP ON THE RUBBLE SO THE PARAMEDIC DECIDED ADVISED THE PARAMEDIC TO SEND THEM TO GIVE HIM THE NARCOTICS AND THEY DID
TO MY KNOWLEDGE AND WAS THERE ALL NIGHT THOSE OFFICERS NEVER CAME TO OUR STAGING
AREA
IT WAS JUST MAYHEM DONT KNOW HOW ELSE TO EXPLAIN IT FOR THE MOST PART OUR PEOPLE AND THE
VOLUNTEERS YOU KNOW THEY REALLY DID REALLY GOOD JOB LITTLE BIT UNORGANIZED IN MY OPINION LIKE
SAID UNFORTUNATELY SPENT TOO MUCH TIME THINK HAD TO SPEND WAY TOO MUCH TIME BABY SITTING THE DOCTORS AND NURSES VOLUNTEERS THEY REALLY HAD NO IDEA NO CONCEPTION OF COMMAND AND TO THE COMMAND THEY WERE ALL GREAT AND WILLING TO HELP AND ALL THAT KIND OF

STUFF
DOMINICK MAGGIORE
AS MATTER OF FACT THE FACT THAT THERE WERE
NO PATIENTS OR VERY FEW PATIENTS CONTRIBUTED TO EVERYONE BEING ANXIOUS AND MULLING AROUND AND ALL THAT
TYPE OF STUFF AND IT JUST KIND OF COMPLICATED THINGS BIT MORE
WHAT DID GET MY ATTENTION AND THE HAIR ON MY ARM STANDS UP AS WE TALK ABOUT IT THE PEOPLE MAYBE
NOT THE HIGHER RANKING BUT THE PEOPLE WHO WERE DOWN IN THE TRENCHES COPS THE FIREMEN IT WAS THAT THEY
WORKED LIKE THEY HAD WORKED TOGETHER FOREVER LIKE TWO
GOOD PARTNERS THEY YOU KNOW TOR THE MOST PART
YOU KNOW LISTENED TO DIRECTION YOU KNOW WHEN IT MADE SENSE AND ANYTHING YOU NEEDED PEOPLE WERE RIGHT
THERE YOU KNOW HAND IN HAND
THE VOLUNTEERS THE PUBLIC WERE OUTSTANDING EVEN THAT EARLY ON THERE WERE PEOPLE WALKING AROUND YOU KNOW GIVING OUT COLD DRINKS YOU KNOW ALL OF THAT KIND OF STUFF IT WAS IT WAS WHAT KEPT ME GOING THE WHOLE TIME
WOUND UP BEING THERE FROM TUESDAY MORNING UNTIL FRIDAY APPROXIMATELY 60 OUT OF THE 72 HOURS
WENT HOME BECAUSE

DOMINICK MAGGIORE
BACK TO THAT TUESDAY NIGHT AGAIN THERE WAS
SECONDARY COLLAPSE WHICH IM NOT SURE BUT IN MY OPINION AND WHAT THINK HAPPENED THATS WHAT WOUND
UP TAKING COUPLE OF THOSE PORT AUTHORITY COPS THAT WERE MISSING
ALONG WITH THAT JUST IN THE MAYHEM TO GET AWAY WE WOUND UP TREATING THREE OR FOUR PATIENTS JUST
WHO GOT TRAMPLED YOU KNOW YOU KNOW WE HAD SOME
PROBLEM WITH SOME ORGANIZATION ITS KIND OF DIFFICULT
FIRST OT ALL JUST TWO LIEUTENANTS PHIL SOTO SPENT MOST OF HIS TIME UP AT THE EDGE OF THE PILE
WITH COUPLE OF CREWS AGAIN WE FACE TO FACED
COUPLE OF TIMES WE TRIED TO KEEP THE PERSONNEL AT THE
AS MINIMAL AS WE COULD
FIRST OF ALL THERE WERE PLENTY OF PEOPLE
SECOND OF ALL NOBODY KNEW AND IT TURNED OUT HINDSIGHT
IS GREAT BUT THERE WOUND UP BEING SECONDARY COLLAPSE LITTLE BIT LATER ON THE OTHER SIDE WHICH LET ME
JUST KIND OF GET REFERENCE THE WEST SIDE
WAS AT TRINITY AND LIBERTY RIGHT
PILE

DOMINICK MAGGIORE
SOMEWHERE OVER HERE
NORTH UP NEAR SOMEWHERE IN THIS AREA
IT WOULD BE TOWARDS
IS THAT THE NORTHEAST PLAZA BUILDING
YES NEAR WEST AND VESEY
THERE WAS SOME KIND OF OTHER ANOTHER
SECONDARY COLLAPSE OR SOMETHING BECAUSE YOU HEARD THE BIG CRASH AND EVERYBODY BY THAT TIME NOW THEY ARE
ALREADY EVERYONE ON EGGSHELLS ANYTIME YOU HEARD ANY KIND OF WHETHER IT WAS CRANE ON THE OTHER
SIDE OR ANYTHING THAT SOUNDED LIKE PEOPLE WERE SQUIRMING AND RUNNING
WOUND UP GETTING OUT OF THERE WEDNESDAY MORNING LIKE SAID SOMEWHERE AROUND SEVEN OCLOCK
SIX SEVEN THE TIME FRAME WAS FUZZY CAME HOME CAME BACK TO THE BATTALION WOUND UP BEING TREATED
AT ST JOSEPHS ER BECAUSE MY EYES WERE SO SEVERELY IRRITATED HAD BILATERAL ABRASIONS
WENT HOME FOR SEEMED LIKE FOREVER BUT IT TURNS OUT THERE WAS LIKE FIVE HOUR SPAN BETWEEN WHEN DROVE TO COMMACK AND GOT BACK HERE WAS BACK
HERE BY ABOUT 12 OCLOCK
AS MATTER OF FACT LISA AND CHRIS WERE
RIGHT
10

DOMINICK MAGGIORE
WAITING FOR ME AND WANTED TO KNOW WHAT TOOK ME SO LONG AND WE HEADED RIGHT BACK IN AGAIN WHEN GOT THERE CAPTAIN BOYLE WAS THERE CANT THINK OF ONE OF THE DOCTORS THERE WAS DOCTOR FROM THE FIRE
DEPARTMENT HE WAS INVOLVED WITH FEMA KIND OF BIG GUY ORIENTAL
OR HAWAIIAN TYPE DONT REMEMBER HIS NAME
AT THAT POINT THERE WAS TRIAGE TREATMENT
AT CHURCH AND WEST AT THE STUYVESANT SCHOOL
RIGHT
AND AT THAT POINT THIS IS MIDDAY ON
WEDNESDAY IT WAS STILL OUT OF CONTROL NARCOTICS AND SUPPLIES WERE BEING SENT UP TO THE TRONT LINE WITH CIVILIANS WITH PIECE OF MASKING TAPE ON THEIR SHIRT SAYING EMT AND SENDING AGAIN SUPPLIES AND EVEN NARCOTICS UNTIL THINK IT WAS DR GONZALEZ WAS THERE HE TOLD ME KIND OF GET GRIP ON THE SITUATION
AT STUYVESANT SCHOOL SEE WHATS GOING ON DID
WE SET UP SECURITY WE SET UP THEY PRETTY MUCH HAD TREATMENT AREA SET UP THERE WAS YOU KNOW
DOCTORS NURSES WHAT WOUND UP HAPPENING WITH THE HELP OF DR GONZALEZ WE PUT STOP TO ALL THE SUPPLIES
GOING UP TO THE FRONT FIRST OF ALL WITHOUT ANYONE WE KNEW WE TRIED TO GET GRIP ON THAT
WE SET UP SECURITY IN THE STUYVESANT
11

DOMINICK MAGGIORE
BUILDING BECAUSE TBERE WAS COUPLE OF PROBLEMS WITH REPORTERS AND CAMERAS AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF IT GOT TO THE POINT WHERE HAD TO GET DONT KNOW WHETHER THEY WERE NATIONAL GUARD OR WHOEVER THEY
WERE THEY WERE MILITARY TO SET UP AT ALL THE ENTRANCES
WE BROKE THE TEAMS THE DOCTORS AND NURSES INTO TWO SENT SOME OF THEM UPSTAIRS TO REST THERE
WAS DR RICH MACHETTE AND NURSE JO DONT EVEN
KNOW WHO BASICALLY TOOK CONTROL AND WE BROUGHT
ONE WAS AS LEADER FOR THE DAY ONE WAS THE LEADER FOR
THE NIGHT
THEY PRETTY MUCH TOOK CONTROL OF THE MEDICAL STAFF AND WITH ME WE PRETTY MUCH GOT GRIP ON IT
HAD HALF DOZEN MASSEUSES SHOW UP WHO WERE WILLING
TO AND THEY SET UP SHOP AND THEY WERE GIVING OUT MASSAGES TO YOU KNOW ANYONE JUST SEND THEM OVER
YOU KNOW GUYS HAD BEEN THERE NOW FOR OVER 24 HOURS AND THEY WERE GREAT AND MEDICAL STAFF
THERE WAS PROBABLY TWO TEAMS OF MAYBE 20 TO 30 DOCTORS AND NURSES AND SOME YOU KNOW WE MIXED THEM WITH OUR PEOPLE
BASICALLY WE HAD ABOUT SIX OR EIGHT YOU KNOW STRETCHERS SET UP YOU KNOW FOR SERIOUS CRITICAL
12

DOMINICK MAGGIORE
AND THERE WAS DOCTOR AND AT LEAST ONE NURSE AND ONE EMT AT EACH STRETCHER WE HAD AN EYE WASH
AREA AND THEY REALLY SET UP JUST KIND OF YOU KNOW GOT IT FLOWING LITTLE BETTER BUT THIS GUY RICH MACHETTE THIS DOCTOR AND THIS NURSE JO REALLY WERE OUTSTANDING AND THATS WHEN SUPPLIES STARTED SHOWING UP FROM EVERYWHERE
HAD GUY ON TRACTOR TRAILER WITH 21 PALLETS SAID YOU KNOW HE WAS TOLD TO COME DOWN HERE DIDNT HAVE THE NEED HERE SENT HIM BACK UP TO CHELSEA PIER TOOK LITTLE BIT OF IT WAS GOWNS AND GLOVES AND THAT KIND OT STUTT
MY MAIN PROBLEM WITH THE WHOLE THING WAS THE CIVILIAN MEDICAL PEOPLE MEAN DOCTORS REALLY HAD NO IDEA HAD AN ANESTHESIOLOGIST SHOW UP WITH BLACK BAG FULL OF DRUGS MEAN LIKE YOU KNOW AND HE WAS GOING TO ANESTHESIZE SOMEONE BEFORE HE TUBED THEM HE HAD NO CONCEPT OF THE FACT THAT OUR PARAMEDICS TUBE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME AND HE REALLY HAD MEAN HE MEANT WELL
WOUND UP ASKING HIM TO LEAVE BECAUSE HE BECAME SUCH NUISANCE YOU KNOW WE KIND OF SET UP WITH RICH AND JOE SO THAT WOULDNT BE BOTHERED WITH EVERY LITTLE NONSENSE AND THE GUY JUST GOT TO BE SUCH
PATIENTS
13

DOMINICK MAGGIORE
IN THE ASS THAT HAD TO ASK HIM TO LEAVE THAT WE DIDNT NEED HIM
SIMILAR WITH PHYSICAL THERAPISTS EVERYBODY WANTED TO BE IN ON ALL THE CONVERSATIONS AND ALL THAT
AND SPENT LOT OF MY TIME YOU KNOW BLOCKING AND
SCREENING PEOPLE WHO YOU REALLY DONT HAVE TIME TO EXPLAIN THESE DOCTORS AND SUCH ARE SO USED TO BEING
IN CHARGE AND THEY HAD REALLY NO CONCEPT OF THE MAGNITUDE OR INCIDENT COMMAND AT ALL
THINK THAT SHOULD BE SOMETHING THAT SOMEONE
SHOULD IN GENERAL OR WHATEVER OR SOMETHING TO THAT ETTECT BECAUSE SPENT LOT OT MY TIME SCHMOOZING
DOCTORS AND TRYING TO GET THEM OUT OF MY WAY RIGHT
WAS THERE WEDNESDAY UNTIL THURSDAY MORNING EIGHT OCLOCK OR SO THURSDAY MORNING THE WHOLE TIME
MY RADIO WAS PRETTY MUCH USELESS USED MY CELL PHONE FOR MOST OF THE COMMUNICATIONS AND LOST THAT FOR AWHILE IN BETWEEN THERE
HAD RECEIVED COUPLE OF CALLS DURING THE COURSE OF THE NIGHT BECAUSE OF MY NINE YEAR OLD HAD
NIGHTMARE THAT HAD BEEN KILLED AND AROUND THEN WAS WHEN THE NEWS OF CARLOS LILLO STARTED SPREADING AROUND
THAT HE WAS MISSING BROKE HIM IN WHEN HE STARTED
PAIN
14

DOMINICK MAGGIORE
HE WAS PARTNER OF MINE
ANYWAY BY THURSDAY MORNING HAD TO GO HOME AND TAKE CARE OF MY SON HE REFUSED TO GO TO SCHOOL
UNTIL HE SAW ME SO WENT HOME AND TOOK HIM TO
SCHOOL AND SPOKE TO THE COUNSELORS AT THE SCHOOL
TRIED TO GET COUPLE OF HOURS SLEEP
CAME BACK IT WAS LATE THURSDAY ABOUT
FOUR OCLOCK SOMEWHERE AROUND THEN WAS THERE
THURSDAY AND WAS BASICALLY WITH CAPTAIN BOYLE HELPING HIM WITH LOGISTICS AND HE WAS JUST EXHAUSTED
SO HE WENT DONT KNOW WHETHER THE SHIP WAS THERE YET OR HE WENT UPTOWN TO ONE OT THE HOTELS THAT WERE
LETTING PEOPLE SLEEP OR WHATEVER AND KIND OF WAS THERE WITH CHIEF PERRUGIA AND LIEUTENANT MANN
AT THAT TIME SOMEWHERE DURING THE COURSE OF THE NIGHT THURSDAY MET CHIEF SMITH THERE WAS FRANTIC RUSH BECAUSE HE HAD MISPLACED PIECE OF EQUIPMENT ON ONE OF OUR GATORS AND HE WAS FRANTIC OVER IT YOU KNOW NO ONE WOULD ELABORATE OVER THE RADIO WHAT IT WAS OR WHATEVER AND WHEN FINALLY TRACKED IT
DOWN IT TURNED OUT TO BE THE SKULL STILL ATTACHED TO CAPTAIN AMATOS FROM SQUAD
IT WAS AMAZING TO
SCOTT PACK WITH PIECE OF
IT AND WOUND UP BEING SCOTT PACK
ME THE CHIEF WAS LIKE
15

DOMINICK MAGGIORE
FRANTIC AND UPSET AND ON THE VERGE OF TEARS AND ALL
THAT WHEN FINALLY DIDNT KNOW WHAT IT WAS AND
WHEN HE OPENED IT UP BROUGHT IT TO HIM HE OPENED IT UP HE LOOKED AT IT AND HE HANDED IT BACK TO ME AND TOLD ME WHAT IT WAS
BY THE TIME LIKE CHECKED IT OUT AND
WAS LOOKING UP TO SEE HOW THE CHIEF WAS BECAUSE HE WAS
OBVIOUSLY UPSET AND IT WAS CHIEF SMITH HE HANDED IT OVER AND HE DID HIS JOB AND HE WAS GOING BACK TO
WORK AND YOU KNOW HAD TOLD HIM BECAUSE WHEN
BROUGHT HIM TO THE MORGUE THE MORGUE WAS YOU KNOW BARELY SET UP INAUDIBLE AND THE MARSHALS THAT WERE
THERE WE KIND OF KIND OF PEEKED OVER THEIR SHOULDER WHILE THEY WERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHOSE IT
WAS THE SQUAD POSITION WHICH IS THE CAPTAIN FROM SQUAD AND WHEN WENT BACK TO AT LEAST GIVE THE
CHIEF SOME INFORMATION HE WAS ALREADY GONE BACK TO WORK YOU KNOW WHICH WAS PRETTY MOVING
BY THAT TIME IT STARTED RAINING DURING THE COURSE OF THE NIGHT BETWEEN THURSDAY AND FRIDAY TO BE
HONEST WAS PRETTY DISAPPOINTED IN HOW THE MOVEMENT
OF OUR PERSONNEL WENT OUT WAS SERIOUSLY LACKING KNOW WE HAD AN ACADEMY STAFF THAT WAS THERE FOR LIKE 20 HOURS WAITING LIKE FOUR HOURS FOR RIDE
16
YOU

PULLED
DOMINICK MAGGIORE
HOME RIDE OUT OF THERE AND WE COULDNT EFFECT IT
IN MY OPINION LOT OF THE YOU KNOW IM IN CHARGE IM IN CHARGE STARTED TAKING PLACE AND AT
THAT POINT HAD TO PULL MYSELF BECAUSE IT WAS DIFFICULT FOR ME TO BEGIN WITH NATURALLY MY FAMILY
WAS NOT HAPPY THAT WAS THERE ALTHOUGH THEY
UNDERSTOOD AS BEST THEY COULD THATS WHERE HAD TO BE
BUT WHEN YOU KNOW THAT UGLY STUFF STARTED SHOWING ITS FACE KNEW IT WAS TIME FOR ME TO BACK OUT OF THERE AND WOUND UP LEAVING THERE WHEN FINALLY GOT BUS TO TAKE THE ACADEMY STAFF OUT IT WAS WHEN LEFT AND
OUT
TOOK COUPLE OF DAYS OFF AND WENT BACK AND THEN IVE BEEN BACK THERE TWO WEEKS AGO AND WENT
BACK COUPLE OF DAYS TO WORK THE MORGUE SECTOR WORKED EMAP SECTOR AND THEN THE NEXT WEEK WAS THERE
FOR THREE MORE DAYS AND NOW THREE OR FOUR WEEKS INTO IT AND WE STILL WERE NOT ORGANIZED ENOUGH TO GET OUR
IN AND OUT OF THERE IN REASONABLE FASHION
PEOPLE
EVERY DAY WOUND UP BEING 16 HOURS 17 HOURS
OF 12 HOUR TOUR
RIGHT WELL IT WAS REGULAR TOUR FOR ME WENT THERE ON STRAIGHT TIME
RIGHT
17

DOMINICK MAGGIORE
SO IT WOUND UP BEING 16 HOURS 15 HOURS
RIGHT
ITS JUST THE PEOPLE THIS IS MY OWN THE
PUBLIC HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR THE PUBLIC COULDNT HAVE DONE IT YOU KNOW AS MUCH AS THERE WERE THESE
INCIDENTS OF THE ISOLATED ASSHOLES WHO ACTED STUPID AND THIS KIND OF STUFF YOU KNOW THAT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME
UNFORTUNATELY IT BRINGS OUT THE SHIT IN PEOPLE AS MUCH AS IT BRINGS OUT THE GOOD IN PEOPLE
WHEN WENT BACK THERE WEDNESDAY
DRIVING IN WEST STREET WAS LINED LIKE FROM THE
CHELSEA PIER TO LIKE SYTH STREET WHERE CAME ACROSS
TOWN OR SOMEWHERE THEREABOUTS WITH THE PUBLIC WERE PEOPLE WALKING AROUND YOU KNOW HANDING YOU
SODAS HANDING YOU GLOVES HANDING YOU COLD DRINKS IF IT WERE NOT FOR THE PUBLIC AND THEIR
THERE
SUPPORT PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO IT
WHEN CAME HOME THAT WEDNESDAY MORNING MY PHARMACIST AND LIVE IN COMMACK WHICH IS YOU KNOW 45
MINUTES FROM THE CITY YOU KNOW EXPLAINED TO HIM LOOK NEED THIS PRESCRIPTION IT WAS FOR MY EYES IF YOU CANT DO IT RIGHT NOW HAVE TO LEAVE BECAUSE HE DROPPED WHAT HE WAS DOING HE DID IT
THURSDAY WHEN WENT HOME FOR COUPLE OF
WAS
18

DOMINICK MAGGIORE
HOURS HAD SEEN MY DOCTOR HECAUSE MY FEET WERE ALL SCREWED UP BROKE COUPLE OF TOES MY FEET WERE REALLY BAD WOUND UP MY DOCTOR STOPPED IN THE MIDDLE OF TREATING PATIENT BROUGHT ME IN HE WOUND UP GIVING ME CORTISONE SHOTS BECAUSE MY FEET WERE SO SCREWED UP HE WROTE ME SCRIPTS CALLED THEM IN TO THE PHARMACY YOU KNOW AND THEY ARE PRETTY FAR REMOVED THEY REALLY DIDNT HAVE TO DO ALL THAT ESPECIALLY THE DOCTOR HE JUST LIKE AND THAT WAS THAT WAS FAR AWAY
SATURDAY AND SUNDAY STAYED HOME AND ALTHOUGH WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE JUST RELAXED THERE
WAS STEADY FLOW AT MY HOUSE OF NEIGHBORS FRIENDS
NEIGHBORS THAT IM REALLY NOT YOU KNOW CLOSE WITH AND STUFF THAT KNEW HAD BEEN DOWN THERE THAT HAD SEEN
SOME PICTURES AND IT MADE DIFFERENCE THINK THATS ABOUT MY STORY
MR TAMBASCO ALL RIGHT DOM THANK YOU FOR YOUR STORY THE INTERVIEW CONCLUDES ITS 709 AM THANKS AGAIN DOM
19
File No. 9110121
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT ROLAND DIAZ
Interview Date: October 22, 2001
R. DIAZ
TAMBASCO: Today is October 22nd. I’m Mike Tambasco with the World Trade Center Task Force, conducting an interview into the events of September 11th at the World Trade Center. Interview time is beginning at 8:08, and our interview today is with...
ROLAND DIAZ: Roland Diaz Junior.
Q: Roland, tell us your story.
A: I remember on September 11th, I was going to post when I got a call for a
plane that hit the World Trade Center. Me and my partner started heading down there. Q: Who was your partner that day?
A: Chris Attanasio. We started heading down there towards Manhattan. We
were at the Bruckner Interchange when I saw the second plane hit the second tower. So, we’re rushing down there, we’re fighting traffic. We go on the FDR, we get off. We got there between 10-15 minutes. We started pulling up on Church Street.
Q: Do you remember Church and what?
A: Church and Vessey.
Q: Great,
A: That was the staging when we first got there. On our approach we saw
bodies on the floor. We go talk to the commander. The commander tells us to start setting up, start heading in. As we started getting on our gear, the Lieutenant came out and told us that they’re changing staging to West and Vessey. So we pull to West and Vessey. We get our stretcher out. We’re getting our gear. We go down and start walking
2
R. DIAZ
towards the building. There was so many people there, everybody was running around. It was more a thing of people running around like a chicken without a head. So before I started to go, I had this need to call my Dad. When I picked up the phone to call my Dad to tell him bye, I was in building....
Q: The North Building is One, the South Building is Two.
A: No, I was in building Five. I went into the entrance, they also had another triage set up in there. I pick up the pay phone, call my dad, I finally get in touch with my Dad. People start running, yelling another plane hit the building. So, one side of the building was all glass, when I looked at it, my first reaction was to run down into the basement. But then in my head I said, that would have been the wrong thing, I would have been stuck down there. So I start running towards West Street within the building, so I guess I’m running West. I found an exit. Once I stepped out the exit, a cloud of smoke with debris, the minute I stepped out, overtook me. It was so much debris that if you put your hand in front of your face, you couldn’t see it. I started coughing. At the same time, I’m still trying to get to West Street, away from the tragedy. Me and my partner, we meet up. This gentleman from OME, Operations Emergency Management...
Q: OEM.
A: Yeah, OEM for New York City comes up to me and my partner. He says my Lieutenant is still in there, I need somebody to take us. So me and my partner, adrenaline is still rushing, we go to the ambulance, which is full of debris. At that time
3
R. DIAZ
everybody is running in all directions cause they didn’t know what was going on. All they knew was somebody yelled that second plane hit the building, and later they realized that the building collapsed. So we run back to the bus. Luckily the bus starts. The guy from Emergency Management jumped in the bus, we started heading back towards tower one. We opened up the doors. We got as close as possible. A fireman came up to us, he had lacerations to his face, he had burns, he had respiratory problems. Another gentleman came up to us, he had a pacemaker and he had chest pains. A handicapped woman, on TV they mentioned, not everyone had seen it about this guy who said he was helping this lady down the stairs who was handicapped, brought her down into the lobby, didn’t know what happened to her, and was wondering if she was alive. I happened to be, me and partner, the ambulance that picked her up. Everybody ran to us. We put on our masks cause we kept breathing in, breathing in. We transported at least 6 to 7 people. Cause everybody ran in, we closed the doors, and we took them to, I think it’s Cabrini Hospital. The one thing that I really remember. When we pulled up it was a ghost town. All you saw was dust. The building wasn’t there anymore. Everybody’s running in different directions. Everybody’s trying to find each other. After that, my partner and I talked and listened to other peoples’ stories, and basically that’s it.
Q: So you were already en route to the hospital when the second building came down then?
A: Yeah, I was there when the first building collapsed.
4
R. DIAZ
Q: Well, is there anything else you’d like to add to this for posterity?
A: Well, September 11th will be a day that I’ll never forget. You know, it made me a different person to realize how precious life is and it gave me different aspects of how I see things now. And to all the families that lost members, my deepest regrets to them.
Q: Okay, well I thank you for your interview. This interview concludes at 8:15 AM.
5
File No. 9110122
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT PETER CONSTANTINE
Interview Date: October 22, 2001
P. CONSTANTINE
MIKE TAMBASCO: Today is October 22nd, I’m Mike Tambasco assigned to the World Trade Center Task Force. I’m conducting an interview into the events of the morning of September 11th at the World Trade Center. The time that the interview begins is 6:35 AM. The interview today is with EMT Peter Constantine of Battalion 20. Pete, just give me your name, ranks and assignment, then just tell me your story.
PETER CONSTANTINE: Peter Constantine, EMT, Battalion 20. I usually get off at 8 in the morning. That day we had a late call. After the late call, we came back to the battalion, when we saw that the Trade Center was hit by a plane. We were assigned to go down. As we started heading down the West Side Highway, we saw the second plane, we saw both towers on fire. There was nobody on the West Side Highway after the second plane, just us and the police following each other down. We went straight through all the way down. We parked the ambulance with a lot of other ambulances on Vessey Street and West. We basically started grabbing equipment and helping out people who were running out from the building originally. At that time it was just chaos, everybody going everywhere. We were helping any way we could. A lot of people wanted to help. At that time, I don’t know what time it was, we heard across the radio the tower’s gonna fall, the tower’s gonna fall.
Q: You heard that on the radio?
2
P. CONSTANTINE
A: Oh yeah, it came across. And then all of a sudden, when you looked up, you froze for a couple of seconds, you saw these little pieces falling off. Then all of a sudden, everyone started to run. Then, you started to run, your helping people, helping them run. You saw it, it was amazing...like out of a movie, you know, the cloud’s just chasing you. As you look back, you see it engulf people. After that was over, we all went back in.
Q: A: Q: A:
Do you know about how far up you got before you went back?
It had to have been a couple blocks. We also brought the ambulance too. Oh, you took the ambulance with you?
When we went back, and then we just started helping people. Everyone
was covered in dust, everyone was breathing it in, we were trying to help them, cleaning them off, anybody injured. Basically at that point it was just a whole mess of people: a lot of EMS, a lot of Fire, a lot of Police, just everybody helping everybody, trying to do whatever you could, as much as you could in a fast amount of time. Mostly we were cleaning off the dust from your eyes and face. A couple of people needed to be transported, so we designated the busses to transport. Basically it was everybody trying to work together, get it together, cause it was chaotic too. And then, it felt like ten minutes, the other building fell. I read in the paper the next day that it was actually something like 30 minutes later that it fell. When that one fell everybody ran again.
Q: You must have been right next to it then when that one came down, right? Cause that was the North Tower that came down second.
3
P. CONSTANTINE
A: We were close, but when we ran, we ran enough fast enough, that we weren’t as overcome as other people. We got out. But we still got covered. Then when the other tower had fallen, it felt like ten minutes, but it was like you said, a half an hour. Everybody ran again, then there was a gas leak they said, they pushed everybody way back to 23rd. So you had all these units, all these rescue people stationed at 23rd street, and you couldn’t do anything. That was the most frustrating part, cause you were there, and you were helping everybody but you couldn’t go back to go get them. So you had to just sit there, cause those we our orders. We had to just sit there. Which was smart cause it was such an unsafe scene. That was basically it, we sat there for a couple of hours, everybody, not knowing what to do or how to help. Then eventually we started getting different assignments. Then they sent us home, we spent the night at ---they set up quarters at the hospital, cause you couldn’t go home. There were cars everywhere and they blocked you in. So me and my partner actually slept at the hospital in the dialysis unit that night. Then we came back, went back down, did a couple tours down there. It felt like we were actually doing something, helping when we went back down. It changed my life you know? I’ve only been on the job six months, and I saw something like that.
Q: You won’t see something like that again.
A: I hope not. That’s pretty much what happened that day.
4
P. CONSTANTINE
Q: Anything else you want to add to it? Go down into the history? Anything?
A: It changed my life. I’m like, ready to get married and have kids. I don’t know what’s gonna happen. I’m too young though, I’m 23.
Q: Okay Pete, thanks for the interview. We’ll conclude the interview at 6:41. A: Thank you.
5

FILE NO 9110123
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT VINCENT MARQUEZ
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 22 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

MARQUEZ
MR RADENBERG TODAY UCTOBER 22 2001 AM PAUL RADENBERG OF THE FIRE
DEPARTMENT CITY OF NEW YORK CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH
EMT MARQUEZ VINCENT MARQUEZ EMT BATTALION 20
MR RADENBERG THIS INTERVIEW IS BEING CONDUCTED AT EMS BATTALION 20 REGARDING THE EVENTS OF THE MORNING OF SEPTEMBER 11TH
2001 THE TIME NOW IS 0855 BEGINNING OF THE INTERVIEW
IF YOU WOULD START PRETTY MUCH FROM
WHEN YOU WERE ASSIGNED TO THE JOB AND HOW YOU GOT INTO LOWER MANHATTAN
WHAT REMEMBER IS THAT DAY THAT MORNING WAS OFF WAS AT
HOME WAS ON THE COMPUTER AND HAD THE TV
ON HEARD THE TV SAY THAT THERE WAS AN
EXPLOSION AT ONE OF THE TOWERS THOUGHT IT WAS INTERNAL REALLY DIDNT PAY MUCH MIND TO IT UNTIL THE SECOND PLANE HIT AND HEARD THE NEWS REPORTER SAY OH MY GOD KNOW WHATS GOING ON NOW
AT WHICH TIME STARED AT THE TV AND
OKAY BASICALLY

MARQUEZ
THEY IIOWED THE IRI REPLAY WHEN AW THE SECOND PLANE HIT IMMEDIATELY CALLED THE
STATION THEY ASKED ME TO COME IN
CAME DOWN PUT ON MY UNIFORM AND GRABBED FERMIN WE
JUMPED ON BUS AND WE WERE 20 NORA REMEMBER EN ROUTE THERE WAS LIKE
LOT OF CONFUSION ON THE RADIO AND HEARD
SOMEBODY SCREAMING MAYDAY THE DISPATCHER APPARENTLY DIDNT HEAR THEM AS SOON AS THERE
WAS BREAK ON THE RADIO GOT ON THE RADIO AND SAID 20 NORA SOMEBODY IS CALLING MAYDAY
THE DISPATCHER SAID WHO IS CALLING MAYDAY THE GUY KEPT SAYING MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY ALL OF SUDDEN IT WAS JUST DEAD SILENCE AT WHICH TIME ME AND FERMIN WE LOOKED AT EACH OTHER WE WERE LIKE OH MY GOD
ANYWAY WHEN WE GOT THERE THERE WAS LOT OF DUST AND DEBRIS JUST FLOATING AROUND IT
WAS PRETTY HARD TO SEE MAYBE THREE FOUR FEET IN FRONT OF YOU JUMPED OUT OF THE AMBULANCE AND GRABBED MY BAG AND JUST STARTED WALKING TOWARDS
WHERE THOUGHT THE SMOKE WAS COMING FROM
DISTINCTLY REMEMBER HEARING SOMEBODY LIKE WHIMPERING AND STARTED MAKE MAY WAY

MARQUEZ
TOWARDS THAT OURID COUTLDRIT SEE BUTT WA
FOLLOWING IT FROM WHAT WAS HEARING ALL OF SUDDEN THERE WAS LIKE THIS ROAR REMEMBER
STOPPING
ITS FUNNY BECAUSE YESTERDAY WAS ABOUT THIS AND REMEMBER FERMIN
THINKING
SCREAMING OUT MY NAME AND TELLING ME TO RUN
THATS WHEN KIND OF LIKE WOKE UP TURNED AROUND AND JUST STARTED RUNNING AS STARTED RUNNING LOOKED BEHIND ME AND THERE WAS THIS HUGE BLACK CLOUD JUST CLOSING IN ON US
ONCE IT PRETTY MUCH SETTLED WENT
BACK WITH FERMIN TO WHERE THOUGHT HEARD THIS
WHIMPERING COMING FROM AND THERE WAS NOTHING BUT SILENCE THIS EERIE SILENCE
FERMIN HAD THE STRETCHER AND HE WAS
FOLLOWING ME WAS PRETTY MUCH JUST LEADING THE WAY WE PICKED UP PEOPLE HERE AND THERE AND WE
JUST STARTED THROWING PEOPLE IN THE BACK OF THE AMBULANCE WE DROPPED THEM OFF AT METROPOLITAN
HOSPITAL AND SHOT BACK
WE WENT BACK INTO THE AREA PRETTY MUCH
GROUND ZERO IT SEEMED LIKE NUCLEAR BOMB HAD HIT THERE WERE VEHICLES ABANDONED AT THE LIGHT

MARQUEZ
THERE WERE VEIIIC1E CRA INTO EACH OTHER VEHICLES ON TOP OF EACH OTHER REMEMBER SEEING
FIREMEN WALKING AROUND IN DAZE
THINK THE SECOND TIME AROUND
FERMIN WE GOT SEPARATED AND MET UP WITH TWO GUYS FROM BATTALION 17 DONT REMEMBER THEIR
NAMES THEY WERE OUT THERE DOING THE GREEN HAM THING THEY HAD THE EMS JACKETS WITH GREEN
NAME ON IT AND STUFF LIKE THAT THEY JUST GRABBED WHATEVER EQUIPMENT THEY COULD AND THEY JUST WENT OUT TRYING TO FIND PEOPLE
REMEMBER LOOKING INTO BECAUSE ALL
THE CARS EVERYTHING WAS COVERED WITH DUST AND
DEBRIS WE WERE LIFTING THINGS AND WALKING BY THE CARS AND WIPING THE WINDOW TO SEE IF THERE
WAS ANYBODY IN THE CARS STUFF LIKE THAT
THINK THAT WHAT HURTS THE MOST IS THE
FACT THAT THERE WAS NOBODY TO SAVE DONT
KNOW GUESS THATS PRETTY MUCH IT JUST TRYING TO FIND SOMEBODY TO SAVE BUT THERE WAS NO ONE
WHEN YOU WERE GOING DOWN RESPONDING DOWN THERE DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT ROUTES YOU TOOK WHAT STREETS YOU WERE ON ONCE YOU GOT DOWN THERE
REMEMBER WE WENT UP FIFTH AVENUE

MARQUEZ
BECAU REUEMBER EEIR1G CENTRAL PARK TO MY RIGHT ONCE THE PARK ENDED FERMIN WAS
DRIVING AND HE JUST STARTED MAKING TWISTING LEFTS AND RIGHTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT SO
REALLY DONT REMEMBER REALLY DONT REMEMBER WHERE IT WAS THAT HE PARKED
KNOW THAT THERE WAS COUPLE OF AMBULANCES ALREADY THERE WHEN WE GOT THERE BUT ITS LIKE THE AMBULANCES WERE COUPLE OF BLOCKS
AHEAD AND EVERYBODY WAS WHERE WE WERE AT
FOUND THAT DONT KNOW TO MYSELF SAID WHY
ARE THEY HERE THATS WHEN GRABBED MY GEAR AND JUST WALKED BY EVERYBODY AND JUST STARTED
WALKING
TOWARDS THE CLOUD
DO YOU KNOW WAS THAT STILL NORTH OF THE
TRADE CENTER COMPLEX
DONT REMEMBER THAT DONT
REMEMBER THAT
ASIDE FROM YOUR PARTNER DID YOU RECOGNIZE ANYBODY ELSE THAT WAS DOWN THERE
KEVIN DARNOWSKI HES ONE OF THE PARAMEDICS HERE REMEMBER SEEING HIM DOWN
THERE DONT REMEMBER HIS NAME BUT WHEN FIRST GOT ON THE JOB WE HAD HAD PARTNER

MARQUEZ
TO WORK IN MANHATTAN REMEMBER EEIN1G HIM DONT REMEMBER HIS NAME
KNOW THAT AFTER ALL THIS AFTER WE FINISHED LOOKING AND STUFF LIKE THAT WE WENT TO
THE PIER THAT WAS ONE OF THE TRIAGE AREAS WHEN GOT THERE THATS WHEN
CHELSEA PIER
YEAH THATS THE PIER THAT TAKES YOU TO
THE FERRY
WHEN GOT THERE THATS WHEN SAW
LOT OF PEOPLE FROM THE STATION THAT KNEW THEY
WERE THERE SETTING UP TRIAGE AND STUFF LIKE THAT YEAH THATS IT THATS ALL
REMEMBER
ANY OTHER THOUGHTS OR COMMENTS YOUD LIKE TO ADD
YEAH REMEMBER LATER THAT NIGHT
HAD GONE TO NO ACTUALLY IT WAS THE SECOND
DAY WEDNESDAY WE HAD GONE TO ACTUALLY WHERE GROUND ZERO WAS AT DONT REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS
THAT NEEDED BUT WHATEVER IT WAS IT WAS AT MAKESHIFT MORGUE THAT THEY HAD
REMEMBER JUST SEEING BIG BODY BAGS WITH LITTLE LUMPS IN THEM AT THAT POINT

MARQUEZ
REALIZED THAT TIIO WERE BODY PARTS IN THERE RIOT ENTIRE BODIES REMEMBER WHEN LOOKED TO MY LEFT SOMEONE WAS PUTTING LEG OR FOOT IN
BAG AND THEY WERE JUST STARTING TO ZIPPER IT
JUST FELT HELPLESS
WENT DOWN THE 11TH AND THE 12TH
AFTER THAT DIDNT GO BACK DOWN ANYMORE WHEN REALIZED THAT THERE WAS THINK IT WAS PRETTY
MUCH THE SECOND DAY BECAUSE MYSELF LIKE
EVERYBODY WAS HOPING THAT WE COULD PULL PEOPLE OUT THERE WOULD BE ACTUALLY SOMEONE BUT THE
SECOND NIGHT REALIZED THAT THERE WAS NO ONE TO SAVE
THATS PRETTY MUCH IT AFTER THAT IT WAS LACK OF SLEEP THE NIGHTMARES WHICH IM
STILL
HAVING
THATS PRETTY MUCH IT THATS WHAT
CAN REMEMBER
MR RADENBERG JUST FOR CORRECTION ON
THE START TIME OF THE INTERVIEW WAS AT 0850 AND THE TIME IS NOW 0902 WITH THE CONCLUSION OF THE INTERVIEW
File No. 9110124
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         EMS CHIEF JAMES MARTIN
   Interview Date:  October 22, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
J. MARTIN
          MR. TAMBASCO:  The date is October 22, 2002.
I'm Mike Tambasco, assigned to the World Trade Center
Task Force.  We're in the office of chief J. P. Martin
at Battalion 20 in the Bronx.  The time is 0655 hours
and we're conducting an interview into the events that
chief Martin witnessed on September 11th at the World
Trade Center.
     Q.   Chief, if you'd be so good to tell us your
story.
     A.   On the morning of September 11th, I was at
home.  I was notified by my aide that a plane had
crashed into the World Trade Center.  Having responded
in 1993 to the initial World Trade Center bombing, I
was pretty convinced that we'd be responding in.
          I notified Citywide on the radio that I was
available for response and awaited their dispatch not
knowing what resources had been assigned already.
About ten minutes after that I was advised to respond
in.  I called my aide back, advised him that we were
rolling, that I would meet him at our Battalion, 53,
and we would go in together from there.  I got dressed,
got in the response vehicle and responded in from
home.  I live in New Rochelle.
          We encountered terrific traffic delays on the
2
J. MARTIN
way in.  We found a lot of civilian vehicles were
stopped in the middle of the highway at high points on
the roadway where you could see Manhattan to watch the
towers burn.  So we had difficulty getting in.  But on
the way in I tried to develop a response plan for EMS.
          I notified the Citywide dispatcher that,
instead of responding directly to the site, that I
would respond to the Brooklyn side of the Brooklyn
Bridge and establish a casualty collection point, and I
directed them to have all Brooklyn and Queens units
respond to that location in lieu of responding directly
into Manhattan and we would from that point funnel
patients out from there utilizing the Manhattan
ambulances to ferry patients across the bridge and go
right out from there.  Another chief, Ellen Scibelli,
heard my request.  She was only a few minutes out from
there.  She said she would respond to that location and
she did so and started to establish this casualty
collection point.
          Upon our arrival at that location, which was
the intersection of Tillary and Adams Street, Ellen had
already established the site.  She had a number of
ambulances there.  She was also working with Lieutenant
Joe Lugo.  We noticed just hordes of people coming over
3
J. MARTIN
the Brooklyn Bridge covered in soot.  I took a hydrant
wrench from out of the trunk of the car and I opened up
a couple of hydrants or I had a couple of hydrants
opened so that people could decontaminate themselves at
that location, and I got on the radio to try and
establish radio contact with any other chief officers,
EMS chief officers who were operating on the Manhattan
side.
          There was no response at that point.  No one
came over the radio, there was no voice conversation,
and you couldn't see from all the smoke, but that was
the point, I believe, that the second tower had dropped
at that point.  Like I say, no one was answering the
radio.
          I notified the Citywide dispatcher that I
would assume command of the EMS operation until such
time as they were able to contact any other chief
officer, and I asked Citywide to do a roll call of EMS
officers to determine who was operational and who was
not.  At that point I wasn't sure if people were alive
or dead, and it was a very terrifying moment thinking
that I had the responsibility for the EMS response to
this incident.
          I also was very concerned about going over
4
J. MARTIN
the bridge knowing, of course, that two airplanes had
struck, that it was an obvious terrorist incident at
this point, was there anything else involved besides
just aircraft, were there chemicals or biological or
nuclear components to this that would have affected
anyone operating on the other side, and I felt that it
might be more prudent to run the operation from the
Brooklyn side and just await confirmation that there
were people operating on the Manhattan side.  I didn't
feel it was prudent to send further resources over the
bridge if there was an inferno or if there was a higher
risk going on on the Manhattan side.
          Several minutes later Chief John Peruggia
came up on the radio.  He said he was operational.  I
said do you want me to respond in to your location?  He
said yes and he gave me the intersection of Chambers
Street and West to respond in to.
          I did so.  I traveled directly across
Chambers Street after crossing the Brooklyn Bridge and
the roadway was littered with a couple of inches of
white dust.  It almost looked like you were traveling
through a snowstorm.  There was a very strong odor of
smoke in the air.  There were some people walking
around with paper masks.
5
J. MARTIN
          We found a group of ambulances at Church
Street and Chambers Street and an EMS lieutenant from
the South Bronx.  I'll try and think of his name
later.  I asked him to try and organize those
ambulances and write down who they were and we would
contact him on the radio if we needed those resources.
I continued driving westward across Chambers Street to
West Street, where I met up with Chief Peruggia and
Chief Kowalczyk, and from that point we began to
regroup all of the EMS resources at that location.
          Within a short time, Chief McCracken
appeared, Commissioner John Claire appeared, and we
began developing a response plan for how we would
manage the injured and we tried to regroup the officers
who were there.  Chief Basile came up.  All of the
officers who were there prior to my arrival were
visibly shaken.  They were really -- they were coping,
but you could see that they were really visibly shaken
by the incident.  Kevin Howe, he's a lieutenant down at
Lincoln, he was operating as safety officer.  I believe
he had responded in from home, and he was trying to
ensure that people who were operating were operating in
a safe environment and he was doing a real good job of
that.
6
J. MARTIN
          I stayed at the command post.  Walter gave me
the responsibility, Chief Kowalczyk gave me the
responsibility of the communications officer, and one
of the things that I had done prior to leaving the
house, having responded the first time and realizing
that we had limited resources, I filled the car up with
several bottles of water and I brought my little
portable radio charger.  Knowing that the new 3500
radios were out there but we didn't have chargers for
them, I threw that in.  So I felt that, if we could
find 110 volts, we could at least keep the radios
charged for the extent of the event.  So I had that
with us and we found a source and we kept just
exchanging batteries through the course of the day.
          Between Chief Kowalczyk and I, we
reestablished contact with all of the chief officers.
He had all of the chief officers report in, regroup,
briefed everyone on the operational plan, and he
handled the planning component and I handled
essentially the communications and the, I guess, the
smaller scale directions for officers on scene and left
the more major decisions to Chief Kowalczyk and Chief
McCracken.
          I recall seeing Chief Gombo at the scene as
7
J. MARTIN
well.  I did speak to Chief Villani on the radio.  He
was down at the South Ferry.  Chief Friedman I spoke to
on the radio.  He was handling the Staten Island side.
He was prepared down there to transfer numbers of
patients from the ferry terminal in St. George to
Staten Island hospitals.
          Chief Carrasquillo was also at the command
post we had established at Chambers and West, and I had
encouraged him to try and -- I gave him the number of
my wife, who is a paramedic in New Jersey, and I gave
him a number for their dispatch center to try and
establish a casualty collection point on the Jersey
side because I knew there were ferries going back and
forth and we could coordinate with Jersey on
distributing patients to Jersey hospitals.  I don't
know if that was ever accomplished or not.  But I also
know that we didn't see large numbers of patients.  I
think by the end of the day, we had only seen 100 or so
patients, so all of the plans really were kind of
unnecessary.  People either walked away from it or they
didn't, and those who did walk away sought out medical
attention on their own.
          Can we pause this for a minute?
     Q.   Sure.
8
J. MARTIN
          (Pause)
     A.   The lieutenant I was trying to think of who
was standing by at the intersection of Church Street
and Chambers Street was Eddie Platt.  He's normally
assigned to Battalion 17.  I had him collect the
resources at that location.
          Later on in the day, Deputy Chief Larry
Mittleman arrived at the command post.  I shouldn't say
later on.  It was probably a half hour to an hour after
I had established contact with Chief Peruggia and Chief
Kowalczyk.  I asked Chief Mittleman to go over to
Church Street and Chambers Street and make contact with
Lieutenant Platt and determine what resources were at
that location for deployment into the incident.
          I don't really recall much other detail about
the response component.  I remained on the scene and
operated as the communications officer until about 2:00
o'clock in the morning, when Chief Kowalczyk relieved
me and asked me to come in the following day.
          I recall looking at the dust that had come
down and spread itself out over the area, looking at
the fibrous component and thinking it was probably all
asbestos.  We somehow acquired paper masks and we were
utilizing those for the duration of the day, and the
9
J. MARTIN
following day we had better masks to put on.
          I don't know.  I can't think of too much else
at this point.  A lot of the day is a big blur.
     Q.   Chief, anything else you'd like to add
emotionwise, anything that you'd like to have recorded?
     A.   Emotionally, it was probably the most
terrifying day of my life, not knowing if we were going
into an incident that we may not come back out of.  I
recall hearing loud noises during the course of the day
and not knowing if it was -- knowing that they had
stopped all commercial aviation and not knowing if this
was another aircraft that had gotten through that was
heading towards us, if it was friendly aircraft or if
it was a building collapsing, and there was constant
tension the whole day, on top of that the constant
decision making, one after the other, the radio was
going the whole time, people were asking for direction
and we were giving out direction.
          Having responded, like I say, the first time,
I was familiar with geography, so that I found was a
tremendous aid, but it was very disorienting with the
amount of debris in the roadway.  You couldn't get
through West Street, you couldn't get through Liberty
Street, you couldn't get through Vesey Street, you
10
J. MARTIN
couldn't get through Church Street.  All the
surrounding roadways had collapsed so that our access
was very much impeded.
          The biggest problem was going north and
south.  You couldn't really go -- a lot of our
resources were down South Ferry.  We couldn't bring
them north.  Anything that would happen in the north we
couldn't bring south.  So we had to utilize some gators
that we had brought in.  There were some people who
drove gators in from -- Tony DeGennaro, he's a
paramedic out of Battalion 49, drove a gator from
Elmhurst in.  I don't know how he got there as quickly
as he did.
          But the gators were a godsend.  They were
about the only thing that was able to move through
there.  I think we had the first gators on the scene
and they remained the only vehicles that could get
around the site at all.
          There were large numbers of volunteers that
came to the scene and we tried to utilize them as best
we could and keep our units available for the regular
911 response, and we had a large number of them staged
just up the block.
          I saw Chief Hart during the course of the day
11
J. MARTIN
along with his aide.  Actually, I saw him with Grace
Cacciola, who is a lieutenant in the EMS Division 1.
Chief Hart had had two near-death experiences.  I think
pretty much everyone who was there from the beginning
had not just one but two near-death experiences and
these people were visibly shaken.
          Chief Wells I saw later on during the course
of the day.  Chief Browne I did not see.  I was told he
was injured.  There were reports that several people
had been killed, several of the EMS officers, none of
which, of course, turned out to be true, and all of
this weighed heavily on us, but I think we still were
able to make decisions, make prudent decisions, and
make sure that all of our people were operating in as
safe an environment as we could.
          I think certainly Chief Kowalczyk, who
organized the operational component of it, I thought
operated extremely well in spite of what he's gone
through this year.  He really deserves a tremendous
amount of credit for the effort that he put in.
          I would say that's it.
          MR. TAMBASCO:  All right, Chief.  I thank you
so much for your interview.  Thank you.
          THE WITNESS:  My pleasure.
12
13
J. MARTIN
          MR. TAMBASCO:  This interview concludes at
0717 hours.
File No. 9110125
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
          EMTD FERMIN MERRERO
   Interview Date:  October 22, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
F. MERRERO 2
          MR. TAMBASCO:  Today is October 22nd.
     I'm Mike Tambasco with the World Trade
     Center Task Force, conducting an interview
     into the events of September 11th at the
     World Trade Center.  The interview start
     time is 0826 hours, and our interview today
     is with --
          EMTD MARRERO:  Fermin Marrero.
          MR. TAMBASCO:  And your rank and
     assignment?
          EMTD MARRERO:  I'm EMTD, I suppose it
     is.
     Q.   If you would, tell us your story.
     A.   Well, it was September 11th.  I was at
my girlfriend's house waiting for her to come
back from taking my stepdaughter to school.  I
usually wake up at 5:30 in the morning to watch
the news, but I had a three-day swing, so I just
slept a little late.
          So when I wake up, the first thing I do
is turn on the news.  All of a sudden I was just
stupefied.  I started thinking about it.  When it
first happened, I said it could be some type of
accident.  I remember in 1946 a plane hit the
F. MERRERO 3
Empire State Building.
          Today you have ground control, you have
satellites.  But when the second plane hit, you
know what's going on.  Even though it was my day
off, I jumped up.  My girlfriend asked me where I
was going.  I said, "Honey, I've got to go."
          I reported here.  It was a madhouse,
people running up and down, people grabbing
equipment, grabbing vehicles.  Somebody said, "We
don't know what we're supposed to do."  I said,
"I know what we're going to do.  They're going to
send me down there.  As soon as somebody comes,
one of my boys, Vinnie Marquez came in.  Me and
him went out.  I went home and -- I left my
bulletproof vest there.  I picked it up, and we
were gone.
          I want to tell you that when you go up
on the Brooklyn Boulevard, you could see the
World Trade Center burning.  You could see both
buildings.  That's when we started praying.  This
has started to help me be strong and proper.
Everything I did that day -- I know Vinnie is a
good guy.  He was in the military.
          When we got there, they told us to
F. MERRERO 4
report to Fulton and Broadway.  We parked our
vehicle.  We ran into Lieutenant -- her name is
Karen.  She's an instructor.  She's a paramedic
now.  Tolingo.
     Q.   Tolingo, Janet, maybe?
     A.   Janet.
     Q.   Janet Olszewski?
     A.   That's it, Janet.  That's her.  She's a
good person, a good instructor.  She said just
get oxygen out and water.  So I said okay.
          A lot of people were coming by, asking
us for those masks, and we didn't have any.  So
we took sheets and we tore them into pieces and
gave them to them.  I started taking out the
oxygen.  Vinnie said, "I'm going down the block
to see if anybody needs help and I'll bring them
here."  I said, "Okay.  You do that."
          Like ten minutes into that, right there
at Fulton and Broadway, I hear this rumbling.
Everybody is looking up in the sky.  I said, oh,
man.  Really I didn't know the first tower is
already down.  Then everybody starts running.  I
said, no, this can't be.  Everybody is looking to
see where it's coming from.  We started running.
F. MERRERO 5
          Then I said I need to find my partner.
That's when the smoke came zooming.  It's
indescribable.  It's like as you see on TV when
they're in an avalanche.  It just came zooming
out.  It's like when you have pressure and
everyone is running.
          I said, oh, my God, my partner.  I
started running toward him.  There was a point
there that there was no visibility.  It was
black.  It was hard to believe.  It's like
9-something in the morning, 9:30 in the morning,
and the sun hasn't gotten directly above, but
(inaudible).
          So I'm running toward my ambulance, and
he comes.  I grab him.  I said, "Get in the
ambulance, and let's move further up."  I turned
on my lights, my sirens, my high beams.  I move a
foot when this other ambulance comes out of
nowhere.  It says something Valley Hudson, a
volunteer.  I would have hit him or he would have
hit me, really.
          Then a guy said the second tower is
down.  I didn't know the first tower is down.
It's impossible.  It's impossible.  I really said
F. MERRERO 6
that.  I said, "This can't be.  Here in New York,
we (inaudible)."  I said, "Let's bring the bus
down as far as we can, bring out the stretcher
and see what we're going to do."
          So we brought down the stretcher, put
all the oxygen on it.  We did a favor we
shouldn't have, (inaudible) the Port Authority.
You know what I mean?
          We started going down the block, and we
ran into an old man and this guy that had a
laceration on his arm.  Vinnie took care of that.
I took care of the old man.  We didn't hardly do
anything.  So I find the police (inaudible).
Yeah, here's two guys over here with some badges.
I said take them, put them in the back.  We
didn't know we were going to be staying for a
long time.  I didn't have coffee that morning.
          Then we come out with the stretcher,
and these people were carrying this fireman.
     Q.   Do you know about where you were then?
     A.   Yeah.  We were right here.  Here's
Fulton and Cedar, Broadway.  Me and Vinnie came
down to here.
     Q.   So you went south on Broadway?
F. MERRERO 7
     A.   Yeah, we went south on Broadway, almost
to Wall Street.  This is the bank here, I think.
It was in this area here.
     Q.   Right around near 140 Broadway?
     A.   Right.  We went all the way back up.
Then we came down.  We stopped over here in this
area here.
     Q.   Right near City Hall?
     A.   Right, we were around City Hall,
because they told us there was a fireman hurt
there -- a policeman hurt.  So this is where we
went.  I took care of him.
          Then we came back through here.  Right
here is a bank.  In the bank we found this lady
who was hysterical.  She was really breathing.
She was upset.  She was breathing.  I said,
"Vinnie, we've got to leave her."
          So we came back down.  At this point I
went and got the ambulance and brought it down to
here, right up to here.
     Q.   Back to like Broadway and Fulton?
     A.   Right.  Then we found this fireman --
no, I think that's where we ran into some of our
boys, Charlie from station 50.  I forget his last
F. MERRERO 8
name.  He was right there on Kings Bridge and
Reservoir.  And a medic.  So we took him with us.
          So then we decided that we were going
to have to go back to the ferry.  We went to the
ferry.  That's where we ran into Juan Burgo, Mike
Negron, Charlie and the medic.  I said, "Look,
we're going back out.  We ain't staying here."
          So we come back down over there, and
we're on Trinity --
     Q.   You came north on Trinity?
     A.   We came back north on Trinity.  Right
around here they stopped us, and they had this
old man with a pacemaker having chest pains.
          Let me tell you something, it was
nothing about ego.  Nobody was in charge.  I know
what they teach you at the academy about we're
going to triage, we're going to do this, we're
going to do that.  One thing about it, everybody
kept their head.  Everybody worked as a team.
          I said, Charlie, why don't you take O2
and stay with the old man.  We're going to go
straight up Trinity.  Whatever we find, we'll
come back down and pick you up with the old man
and take him to the ferry.  He said that's cool.
F. MERRERO 9
          So he jumped out.  When we got right
around here, we found this fireman.
     Q.   That's around Cedar Street?
     A.   Yeah, right around Cedar, right here.
Right here, in fact.
     Q.   Trinity and Cedar?
     A.   Trinity and Cedar.  We find this
fireman.  He's like in shock.  I'm 48, and I
think I look pretty good.  He said he was 48, but
he looked like he was sixty that day.  I'm
telling you, he was walking around aimlessly.  I
said, "Come here, come here, come here.  What's
wrong?"  He said, "Nothing.  Get off of me."  I
said, "Are you okay?"  He said, "I'm okay, just
having a little chest pain."  "Come with us.
We'll take your blood pressure and give you some
oxygen.  That'll make you feel better."
          So we walked him back up to the
ambulance, and we put him in the ambulance and we
went straight back down to right over here as far
as we can go.  We asked if anybody needed help.
I said all we've got is our patient here.  We're
going to treat him.  We went back to Cedar.  We
got up to here.
F. MERRERO 10
     Q.   To about Cortlandt Street?
     A.   Cortlandt Street, yeah.
          Then that's it.  Then we stood there
and we looked at it.  The metal part sticking up
looked like a crown.  I was going to walk in
there, but Vinnie said don't go in there, it
looks like it's gonna fall.  I said, "Let's get
the fireman and the old man out of here."
          So we came back, picked up Charlie and
the old man, and we came up to like -- by the
exchange.  I came across --
     Q.   And then went down Broadway?
     A.   No, no, we came across the exchange,
and over here we ran into a lieutenant.  "You can
take them to Metropolitan."  There was so much
madness that we went up Broadway, kept on going.
We kept on going up Broadway past all this
madness.
          Then we got across to Canal Street, we
found this African-American lady on the ground.
I think she was (inaudible).  They stopped us.  I
said let's go on in there.
          It was really funny, the fireman said,
"I want to smoke a cigarette."  I said, "Pop,
F. MERRERO 11
with all this shit, you want to smoke?"  He said,
"Listen, son."  "But you have chest pain."  "That
building fell five feet away from me."  I said,
"You ain't going to die today, boy.  You better
smoke two of them."
          So we took him in the ambulance, and
then we had the lady.  I stopped again.  Then
they brought this oriental gentleman.  So help me
God, he was covered, he was white; from head to
toe, white he had a gash on his forehead.  We
threw him in there, gave triage to everybody.
          We let the other guys off, let them
could go back and help.  We zoomed all the way to
Metropolitan.  The eeriest feeling in the world
is to be on that highway and there be nobody else
there but you.
          We got to Metropolitan.  We dropped
everybody off.  I took a broom.  I swept the
whole ambulance real quick of debris.  We went up
to Harlem to get another stretcher, but that was
a bad move.  So we had to come back all the way
around the way we did, and go all the way back
down around.
          Then we went back to Liberty and Cedar,
F. MERRERO 12
and that's where we picked up Juan again and
Charlie, the other medic, and Mike Negron.  We
went back up there hunting, so to speak, and we
found four more people and we took them to the
hospital.
          Then by that time the sun was like
overhead, like 12:00.  You don't have any sense
of time.  My dogs are killing me.  My dogs are
killing me for two weeks.  I have some things for
my feet now.  Really, I'm telling you, they're
killing me for two weeks.  I have to write a
letter about that.
          In all that madness, everybody kept
their head.  When we got there, when the sun was
really out, then we saw -- let me tell you
something, you can't beat a New Yorker in a
pinch.  I don't care what you say about this
city.  You can't beat a New Yorker in a pinch.
          The guy from McDonald's -- McDonald's
opened.  He was giving out cheese sandwiches; he
was giving out coffee.  By this time -- we were
out at 9:30.  I woke up at -- the first building
had been struck, and I was there to see the
second building get hit from my house.  I was all
F. MERRERO 13
the way down there at 9:30.
          The thing is, there were people out
there giving us food, giving us water.  You don't
think about it, but by that time I was like -- by
2:00 I was already beat.
          We ran into this lieutenant.  I forget
his name.  He had a whole bunch of people.  So we
went back to the World Trade Center -- I mean
to --
     Q.   The ferry terminal?
     A.   -- the ferry terminal, told the
lieutenant.  We came back, but we couldn't find
him.  So we assumed somebody else picked him up
and took him to where he had to go.
          After that it was just like cut and
dry.  I can't say it was humdrum, because there
was nothing humdrum about this.  I got enough and
I was working with a lot of good guys, Vinnie
Marquez, Juan Burgo, Mike Negron.  Charlie, I'm
going to forget his last name, the medic, from
Station 50.
          Chief Basile was there.  There was a
point I said, "Chief, we can't stay because
there's a lieutenant stuck up there and we know
F. MERRERO 14
where we're going."  He just said, "Go, go."  He
didn't hold us back.
          All that soot and stuff I breathed in.
It's been bothering me ever since then.  They
told me I could go down there.  They have
medicine for you down there.  I don't know.
          It was also everybody.  Even just a
month later, I had to go away for like nine days
to get myself together.  I had a knee operation,
so I just took nine days of R&R.
          Other than that, you know, it was a
horrible experience, but like I said, you can't
beat a New Yorker in a pinch.  I pray to God it
never happens again, that we have to go through
this again.
          That's it.
     Q.   Anything else you want to add?
     A.   Outside of my dogs, my feet.  Oh, and I
lost an ambulance, but I brought back the de-fib.
I want that for the record.  Thank you so much.
          MR. TAMBASCO:  The interview concludes
     at 0840 hours.
File No. 9110126
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
          EMT JOSEPH HENDERSON
   Interview Date:  October 22, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
                  J. HENDERSON                  2
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today is October 22nd,
     2001.  I am Paul Radenberg of the Fire
     Department, City of New York.  The time is
     now 0814 hours.  I'm conducting an interview
     with --
          EMT HENDERSON:  Henderson, Joseph, EMT,
     at Battalion 20.
          MR. RADENBERG:  This interview is being
     conducted at EMS Battalion 20.  This
     interview is regarding the events of the
     morning of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   You can pretty much start with when you
were assigned to the job.
     A.   I was assigned to the job approximately
8:30.  We took the Bruckner to the -- I forget
the name of it, the other highway to get into
Manhattan.
     Q.   On the east side, the FDR?
     A.   Yeah, FDR, but the toll you pay before
you reach the FDR.  Anyway, FDR.  There was heavy
traffic, a lot of police cars, a lot of FBI cars.
Traffic was finally clearing all the way down.
We parked right across the street from Two World
Trade Center.
                  J. HENDERSON                  3
     Q.   On the West Side Highway?
     A.   Yeah, on the West Side Highway.
     Q.   Just south of Liberty?
     A.   Yeah.
          There were body parts all over the
place.  When we were going there, you could see
the buildings on fire.  When we pulled up, a lot
of people were screaming, people running in and
out of the buildings.
          We were directed where to park.  We
parked, and we went to help two other medics.
Then when we were coming back, we went to go to
the staging area when somebody started screaming
that the building was falling.
          I looked up, because I went back to the
bus to get the long board while my partner was
waiting for me.  I looked up, see all the debris,
you hear the rumble coming down.  I don't know
which direction I took off to go.  I took off
from like this way.
          As I was running, you feel a bunch of
debris hit you and knock you down.  After I got
up, you couldn't see where you were going.  You
had a bunch of people screaming.  A few of the
                  J. HENDERSON                  4
ambulances were exploding.  You felt debris
hitting you, choking, couldn't breathe, walking
around, it seemed like forever.
          Finally I was able to get inside of an
ambulance that the lights on.  We stayed there
for a few minutes.  But there was so much debris
and stuff that you could hear hit the buses and
stuff, like stuff was crashing on the bus around
you.  So we were able to get out.
          There was a building on the side that
we were able to go into.  We stayed there for, I
don't know, a certain amount of time.  A female
cop came running in and said, "One of your guys
is on fire.  One of your guys is on fire."  When
we came back out, that's when the second building
collapsed.  We were able to run from that one
because we weren't too close to that.
          I hung around there for -- we couldn't
get to the other side and couldn't get back
nowhere.  We had no radios.  We lost our radios.
We lost everything.  Somebody from the news was
down there.
          After a while we were able to get a bus
to take us to Berkley Hospital, and from there we
                  J. HENDERSON                  5
were taken to the Bronx.
     Q.   When you were down here on west side
and Liberty, do you remember seeing any other EMS
people down there that you recognized, know their
names?
     A.   Yeah, Jefferson.  Jefferson was down
there.  He's a medic.
     Q.   Is he from Battalion 20?
     A.   No, I forget the station he's from.  I
think he's from Boston outpost.
     Q.   Do you know who he was working with?
     A.   No, I don't know who his partner was.
     Q.   What vehicle number did you use that
day; do you remember?
     A.   I believe it was 265.
     Q.   265?
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   When you got down there, that was
between the two crashes?
     A.   No, it was after the second crash.
     Q.   After the second crash.  Okay.
          Was Jefferson --
     A.   He was there before me.
     Q.   He was one of the two medics that you
                  J. HENDERSON                  6
said you guys were helping out?
     A.   Yeah, we went to help him at first.  He
was there before.  Actually they pulled up right
before us.  We were behind them.  When they
parked, they jumped out.  They were told we had a
firefighter with a crushed face.  They ran to the
side, and we parked like right in front of them,
because they were directed to pull in front.
          Then we went to help them.  Then still
we had to go and build the staging area.
Q. Right.
     A.   When we were going there, that's when
everything started to crumble.
     Q.   Do you know where they were treating
their patient at that point?
     A.   It was Cedar.
     Q.   Over on Cedar?
     A.   Yeah.  It was there.  I can't
remember -- they were pulling the firefighter out
from somewhere; I can't remember where.  It was
almost black.
     Q.   Where was the staging that you were
directed to?
     A.   The staging was on, I believe here.
                  J. HENDERSON                  7
     Q.   On West?
     A.   In the hotel.
     Q.   In the hotel?
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   Did you recognize anybody in there?
     A.   We never made it to there.
     Q.   You never made it?
     A.   No.  We got to about the middle of the
street, and that's when we heard the rumble,
people started screaming that it's falling, and I
ran this way.  I'm not sure which way my partner
ran.
     Q.   Was it between the collapse of the two
towers that you actually were treating the
patient?  You said something about a burn
patient.
     A.   We never actually got a patient.
     Q.   No?
     A.   No.
     Q.   After the collapse of the first
building --
     A.   Oh, yeah, the burn patient was after
the collapse of the first building, when the
female cop that ran into the building we were in.
                  J. HENDERSON                  8
I believe it was this one.  I don't know what
building this was.
     Q.   You were down here at Albany and West
Side Highway?
     A.   Yeah, after the first collapse.  I was
able to get in an ambulance.  We were able to get
out because everything here was being crushed.  A
few of the ambulances were on fire.  You could
hear some of them exploding.
          So after we got out of the ambulance,
we ran to one of these buildings.  Then after we
came back out, we got about this far, and then
that's when the second building collapsed.
     Q.   So somewhere between Albany and
Carlisle was the building that you went into.
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   And got back up to about Albany Street?
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   And that's when the cop --
     A.   No.  She came in the building.
     Q.   She came in the building?
     A.   Yeah.  When we went back out, that's
when the second building collapsed.
     Q.   Do you know where the burn patient was
                  J. HENDERSON                  9
that she was talking about?
     A.   No, no.  I believe she said he was in a
bus.  He was still one of these buses.
     Q.   He was in an ambulance?
     A.   Yeah, but we never got to him.
     Q.   Your vehicle, 265, was that destroyed?
     A.   Totally.
     Q.   That was?
     A.   Totally destroyed.
     Q.   Do you remember any other EMS vehicles
over there?
     A.   There was a bunch of them.  I don't
remember the numbers.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   But it was like an average of eight
buses parked at an angle, because we would just
jump out, run in the building, and they would
like come back.  It was easy access in and out.
Q. Right.
     A.   There were about eight ambulances.  We
were in the front, because there were other
ambulances there before we got there.
     Q.   After the second tower came down, what
did you do then?
                  J. HENDERSON                 10
     A.   Then I came out, looking to see if you
see anybody that you know or contact anybody.
Then it was a few of us that had hung together.
It was me, Jefferson.  I can't remember the other
medic's name.  We were just waiting around to see
if maybe somebody would come get us.  We had no
radios.  We couldn't call anybody.  That's it.
We were just waiting.
          After a while a chief came up -- I
can't remember his name -- and told us wait here,
they'll send somebody to come get us.  We waited.
Nobody ever came back.  Finally we got a lift to
the hospital.
     Q.   Lonnie Penn was your partner that day?
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   Do you know where --
     A.   Yeah, from what I heard, he ran this
way to the water, and at that time there were a
few guys there that had boats and they took him
to Jersey.
     Q.   So you pretty much didn't meet up with
him again?
     A.   Until 10:00.
     Q.   Back up here at the building?
A. Yeah.
J. HENDERSON                 11
     Q.   Any other thoughts or opinions you'd
like to add?
     A.   There was another guy that was running
with me.  I don't remember his name.  He was
messed up pretty bad.  I think they said one of
the guys that was in the hospital, he had a
punctured liver.  But he had a hole in his back
and a broken wrist and he was running.
     Q.   Was he from EMS?
     A.   Yeah, he was from EMS.
     Q.   Yeah?
     A.   Yeah.  But I'm not sure what station.
We were in the bus -- the same bus that we were
in, we got him in.  We were going to start to
treat him, but there was just so much stuff
falling.  We took him out.  That's when we took
him in this building.  After the first smoke
cleared, some people took him out.  That's when
we came back out.  That's when the second
building collapsed.
     Q.   Okay.  That's pretty much it, and I
thank you.
          MR. RADENBERG:  The time is now 8:25.
             J. HENDERSON                 12
The interview is concluded.
File No. 9110127
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT ALWISH MONCHERRY
Interview Date: October 22, 2001
A. MONCHERRY
CHRISTOPHER ECCLESTON: Today’s date is October 22, 2001. The time is 22:12, and my Name is Christopher Eccleston of the New York City Fire Department World Trade Center Task Force, I am conducting an interview with the following individual...please state your name, title, and assigned command area of the Fire Department of the City of New York regarding the events of September 11th, 2001.
ALWISH MONCHERRY: My name is Alwish Moncherry, I am an EMT with the Fire Department of New York, I work out of Battalion 49 in Astoria.
Q: Were you assigned to the World Trade Center disaster on September 11th, 2001?
A: Y es, I was.
Q: Can you please tell me in your own words about the events of that day? A: Of the events on September 11th, I would say it would have been about
8:30 or so (I’m not too sure about the time) I was at my 89 when we received the call. At first I heard over the radio, the towers had been hit. I didn’t know what it was, I didn’t think anything of it for a split second. Well, my partner didn’t think anything of it, but then I told him, cause Kevin Barrett was my partner.
Q: Kevin Barrett?
A: I said Kevin, did you hear that on the radio? He said: hear what? Then I told him something happened at the tower. Next thing you know, five or ten seconds later, 9 Henry respond, please respond to the World Trade Center. Immediately we picked up and went. We didn’t have time to write anything. Down 21st street, we
2
A. MONCHERRY
reached the 59th street bridge. Central tells us to stand by at the 59th street bridge on the Queens side, until further notice. We’re the first ones there, the other units 49 Charlie, 45 Adam, and 49 Victor were also called. I think all of the units out of this station were called. We were at the front of the line, 49 Henry, to wait for conditions 49 to show up and tell us where to go. Everything’s happening really fast. I’m looking from the 59th street bridge, you can see the towers, you can see the smoke. The buildings just look like a cigarette basically. When we get the call to go over the bridge (I’m not too sure about the time) when we’re on the bridge there’s plenty of traffic. That’s when we noticed the second plane hitting tower two. I just couldn’t believe that that happened. So everybody was just trying to get there as fast as possible, as soon as possible, no matter what. A lot of fender benders en route, not us, but a lot of other cars hitting. A lot of chaos on the highway, on the bridge. Finally we get over, and we head down to the staging area. I’m not too sure, it was a Lieutenant or captain at the staging told us--cause 9 Henry is a haz- tac unit, I guess they wanted them at a certain place. They chose to put us originally on Vessey and West.
Q: Can you just indicate on the map with a number 1 where your vehicle was parked originally?
A: On the corner of Vessey and West. While on that corner, I’m seeing people rushing out of the buildings. Most of them appeared to be burns and, it was just hell. I can’t really describe it. People were just pouring out. Thousands and thousands of people just coming out. And everybody seemed to have been injured in one way or
3
A. MONCHERRY
another. Triaging patients, that’s all we could do. We didn’t have enough triage tags for everybody either. At the moment prior to the first building collapsing, I remember hearing popping sounds. One of my partners was saying what’s that? I saw the people falling and exploding on the ground.
Q: What was exploding on the ground?
A: Human beings. They were just falling from the sky and exploding like that.
Q: How close were you to these people landing?
A: I would say about 100-150 feet. People coming out of the buildings half burned, the fuel must have spewed down and hit some people. A lot of burns literally down through the skin to the bone. I had two patients on my ambulance, vehicle 111. FBI Agents were telling us to move our vehicle from the corner of Vessey and West, cause there was debris from the airplane which they needed for evidence. I guess it was NTSB, they wanted the area secured. There was nowhere for us to move the vehicle, cause there was debris everywhere. I know I ran over some sort of evidence somewhere. Pieces of metal from the plane. I tried, we moved it. I think now I was closer to the building, I would say about 50 feet from the building prior to it falling.
Q: Can you indicate on the map with a number 2 where you parked your vehicle the second time? If you can recall.
A: Let’s see...here. Q: Thank you.
4
A. MONCHERRY
A: When this happened, the first tower starts to collapse. I didn’t know this at first. My partner was on the corner, I didn’t know his location at the time, cause I’m triaging. I have two people on my ambulance already. To my assumption, I thought, 49 Henry is a haz-tac, it’s supposed to be there for a reason. I’m not haz-mat certified, but my partner is. All I had to do was triaging the patients. My first patient was going into shock and bleeding profusely. My second patient was an asthma patient, and her ankle and knee were messed up a little bit, but she was okay. I took care of her and she was okay after that. So I left the two of them in the ambulance and stepped out. Two other guys needed help, I’m not sure which unit they were. They needed some help to put the patient on the long board. As we’re lifting her up, I notice people rushing towards us, and when I look up, I see the building coming down. It’s almost hovering over my head in slow-motion. I’m like holy--- you know.
Q: You can say what you want, it’s fine.
A: I just, I froze for awhile. I looked up and I couldn’t believe when it started coming down. It was a decision that I knew I had to make, but it took awhile for me to do it. The building’s coming down real fast, and it looks like slow motion. I had to leave. I turned around and I had to go. If I would have stayed and ran back to the ambulance, I don’t know what would have happened. So as far as I know the people who were within that vicinity there, if they ran the wrong way, turned the wrong way, if they
5
A. MONCHERRY
looked the wrong way, something could have either fell on them at that moment, or after
a long time, from all the debris piling up, they would have been dead. Definitely. So I just ran. I turned around, I thought about my kids. My daughter, 5 years old, Imani. And my son, brand new to the world, one month old. And my wife, we just got married in August. I thought about them and I said I can’t leave them. I turned around and started running. On my way running, I found a lot of people, and I helped out a few that I knew needed help. If they could run, just run with me. Just keep on going. Now it’s like a dead silence, it’s still clear, but it’s a dead silence. And soon all you could see was a black smoke coming from all sides of the street. It hit me in the back, it hit everyone, it just blanketed us. No one knew what to do, we couldn’t breathe. I didn’t have a mask on, we didn’t have time to get all that stuff. While I was running, my helmet flew off, my mask, radio. I found radios, I found another helmet that was lying around, I picked it up and put it on. I feel some lady grabbing my arm, we’re trying to run. She tells me she has asthma. I say just hold on to me, keep going. In the dark I saw a light. I started going towards the light. Holding the girl’s hand, we’re just going forward. We get to the light, it’s another EMT....
Q: We’re gonna stop the tape for a moment, the time is 22:25....Resuming the tape at 22:26.
A: Well, I’m holding the girl’s hand, it’s dark. I can’t breathe, I can’t see anything. All you hear is voices, everyone screaming and yelling for help. I saw the light and I started going towards the light. It’s a fellow EMT, I don’t know his name. All I know is he had dreads. He looked horrible, he couldn’t breathe. I was telling him to
6
A. MONCHERRY
hold on. So I grab him. A few seconds later I hear shelter, shelter. So we all start going towards the voice, it was a bodega grocery store. We all went inside the store, they closed the door, gave everybody water and took care of them. Told everybody to not swallow, just gargle and spit it out. We waited a little while, treated as much as we could inside the store with whatever resources we had at the moment. Moments later, I’m not sure about the time, the smoke started to subside a little, just from the top you could see it clearing up a little, slightly. It was at that time that we heard police officers, I guess chiefs, telling us all, EMS units and fire, all you guys come on out, we gotta get the rest of the people out. So after helping out as many as we could in the store, I put my gear back on, whatever gear I had left. We ran back out, I had a tee-shirt, I forgot to mention, that’s the only thing I had in terms of covering my airway. We went back towards the building, Tower One. I don’t know where cause it’s still dark everywhere. So, when I went back, I just started helping people out, any which way we could. I remember an African-American female, she had a four year old or a five year old daughter with her, and another child, I’d say less than a year old in the stroller. They’re all covered up in stuff, in soot and everything. I’m looking at her, she’s screaming, she doesn’t know what to do or where to go. I told her, I just grabbed the baby that was in the stroller, and there was a police officer who was next to me, he grabbed the four-year-old, and we all started going towards the building. I think it was one of the court houses over there. We took her inside there. I was so...I guess it was the adrenaline kicking in, I just wanted to get her inside, out of that environment. I didn’t even bother looking at the child, cause it was
7
A. MONCHERRY
sort of covered up a little bit, so I figured it was okay. I was like get in, get out. Take the baby in there, daughter’s in there and she’s okay. I didn’t have time to look at the child to be honest with you, and look at her, cause there were other people there. I just ran back out to help some more. At that time I bumped into my partner. I heard his voice out there, and we ran into each other. We just started crying right then and there, you know. And a couple minutes after that, another one of our partners out of at the station, Luis Diaz, was found, we found him. Luis was not himself to say the least when we found him. He didn’t have his helmet on, and he was down crying. I knew it was him cause he has a bald head just like me. He has a shiny bald head, but it wasn’t shiny. We found him, I hugged him, and we just cried together right there for about five minutes. I don’t know how long, but it was a long time. After that we said we still have a job to do. We have to go back out there and help these people as much as we could, and that’s what we did. Now I guess the second tower started coming down. Just by looking, I would say we were about 300 feet, maybe a little more, maybe 400 feet away from it. But it came down, and the same thing. Everyone started running. At that point I just didn’t know what was going on and why this was happening. It just wasn’t good. We were stuck there for awhile, we stayed together Kevin Barret, Luis Diaz and myself. We started finding people along the way, co-workers. We later found a captain, I don’t remember her name, but I know she works out of Battalion 50 in Jamaica. I think she’s a Lieutenant. We found her and she told us where the next staging area is, and we headed
8
A. MONCHERRY
towards the next staging area. I don’t recall where exactly it was. I know we walked a long way.
Q: Could it be here?
A: I think so, I think so. I know when the Lieutenant told us where to go, that wasn’t the correct staging area, cause we were still too close to the buildings. They wanted everyone away from it. That’s when there was a third building that collapsed around that time.
Q: Building Seven, which would be over here.
A: Okay, 7 World Trade, that one collapsed.
Q: 7 World Trade collapsed a little later.
A: Yeah, a lot later. That happened en route, while we were walking towards
our unit.
Q: That happened at 5:25.
A: Wow. We stuck around there for a long time. I would say for most of the
day and night. Later on that night we were told to go to Chelsea Piers. That’s where the Emergency Room was, the make-shift ER. We went there, and we were trying to figure out who was missing. For a long time no one knew where we were. We were the guys missing, and everyone was down there looking for us. So at that time we formed a little group, from 10 to 15 EMTs, and we went out of this area to try to go back for the guys who were not accounted for. Like Carlos and Luis’ partner Paul Adams.
9
A. MONCHERRY
That was one of the people we were looking for while Kevin, Luis and I, he was the next person we were trying to find. We finally got that Paul was okay, I think I heard his voice on the radio and I told Luis that he was okay. We didn’t know where he was. We couldn’t find Carlos, but there was nothing else that we could actually do. But I felt like we should at least try, you know? At least try and get him. That’s something that not too many people know about until now I guess. And that was it. We stayed there for awhile, I’d say we were released maybe 20 hours later. I haven’t been back since. The only thing I keep is my boots. I don’t even polish them anymore, they still have the ash on them. That’s the only thing I keep as remembrance. And the smell on the ambulance...
Q: Is there anything else you would like to add on the events of September 12, 2001 prior to approximately 12:00?
A: No.
Q: Okay, well thank you very much for conducting this interview with me. This interview is being concluded at 22:40 hours. Thank you very much.
A: Thank you.
10

F i l e No. 9110128
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT LUIS SANCHEZ
Interview Date: October 22, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins

L. SANCHEZ 2
MR. ECCLESTON: Today's date is October 22nd, 2001. The time is 2256. My name is Christopher Eccleston of the New York City Fire Department, World Trade Center Task Force. I'm conducting an interview with the following individual.
Please state your name.
EMT SANCHEZ: Luis Sanchez.
MR. ECCLESTON: Your title.
EMT SANCHEZ: EMT.
MR. ECCLESTON: And your command. EMT SANCHEZ: 49.
Q. Were you working on September llth, 2001?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you assigned to the World Trade
Center disaster? A. Yes.
Q. Can you please tell me in your own words about the details of that day?
A. Well, at the beginning of the day it was just like a regular Tuesday, just going to work, preparing for the day and everything for my tour, which was tour 2.

L . SANCHEZ
I'm not too sure what unit I was working, but my partner was broke in with someone else, and I had a new partner.
Q. Who were you working with that day?
A. I think her name was Brandon. I ' m not too sure if it was Brandon or not. I believe it was Brandon.
We started at 7:OO. I think we started a t 7:OO. We just started a t 7:OO. We had a call for that day, which was a cardiac arrest. I think it was approximately 7:30. We went to the call, and everything went fine. There wasn't a cardiac arrest. It turned out to be an asthma attack. So we went in and helped the patient and everything. We took the patient to the hospital, and after that it was all clear.
We got cleared a t about approximately 7:45, around there. I ' m not sure what time it was. All I know is five minutes after we received a call saying that a plane just crashed into the twin towers, one of the towers.
My partner told me -- I looked at him like what's going on here? I thought he was playing around. He told me, look, it's serious.

L . SANCHEZ 4
We went to up to the park to get a good view of the towers. When I saw the smoke coming out of one of the buildings, I said, oh, shoot, it i s real.
So he told me it's an MCI so we had to go to the command post and go along over the bridge to the place. The problem is after everything, we started heading up to the place, the towers, and there was about 20 units right behind us and police officers and firefighters, right behind us, right in front of us, everywhere. It was crazy, real chaos.
We just got there. When we got there,
I didn't really know where we were at. It was one of the towers. I don't know if it was the front, back, side. All I know is there was a lot of people outside. People were hurt. People were yelling and screaming. We were right i n front of it, about a block away from it,
actually.
My partner told me not to get nervous, just stay calm, everything is going to be all right, it's going to be just like a regular call. I said okay. I asked him if we should stay

L. SANCHEZ
together, should we stay together. He said, just go and follow along with the patients. Just help whatever patients, who feels hurt, doesn't feel good. I said okay.
So I went out, and I was looking around for other patients, any patients that I saw to help out, because I had no experience. This is
my second week on the job, and I had no experience at all.
I see patients coming out from the building, and I started, you know, just putting them in a safer place, which was a block away. I had a patient that had asthma. I had a patient that had a laceration on the forehead, and I was sitting him down and giving him 02 oxygen and trying to manage, do the best I can.
I was just looking at people. I saw EMTs helping out, and I was like good, now I feel more comfortable helping out. Finally I saw one ofmyfriendswhograduatedwithme. Isawhim, and we started working together, which was good for me. We sort of had the same experience. We didn't know what to expect. So we're like, cool. We were both nervous and didn't know what to

L. SANCHEZ
expect helping out the patients and everything. So all of a sudden we had this other
patient come out of asthma, throwing up, vomiting, screaming and just yelling. She was just real nervous. We were just telling her it was going to be okay, it was going to be, don't be nervous, everything's going to be all right. We just gave her 02, and she seemed to calm down. But she was throwing up. We were trying to make her feel better, saying jokes, anything to make her feel good, better.
Five minutes later I just heard this loud noise. It was like an earthquake. It was shaking, and things was going down. I looked everywhere. There was nothing going on. I looked to the side, looked to my friend. There was nothing going on. When I looked up, I saw the top of the building floor by floor was coming down, collapsing. I was oh. (Inaudible.)
I looked at my patients. They were all there, just throwing up. They didn't know what was going on. I looked at everybody. They seemed like they didn't know what was going on.
All of a sudden I just looked up and

L. SANCHEZ
said this is for real, is this a dream or what? I'mlike,whatdoIdo? DoIrun? WhatdoIdo? Pick up the patients? Call my partner? What I did was I screamed, I yelled. I said, "The building's collapsing. The building's collapsing. Everybody run."
What I did was just dropped everything Ihadtheradio -- Ihadtheradio -- andjust ran, just ran as fast as I can before I get trapped between the buildings or anything. I just ran.
All of a sudden I see this firefighter who was helping a patient. They didn't know what was going on. He was looking down towards the patient. He looked like he was just like focused on the patient. She had a big laceration on her leg. He was right in front of me. I just pushed him to the side and just told him to run because the building was collapsing.
I just kept running. I just kept running for approximately 20 blocks after that, 20 blocks, kept running, until everything was cleared. There was smoke everywhere. You couldn't see anything. I just kept running until

L. SANCHEZ
everything was all clear.
Once I got there for about ten blocks,
I was with police officers and I started to help them. It was about approximately 2:00 - - sorry, it was about 10:OO when that happened. I started helping out with the police officers. I bumped into one of my friends who is a police officer, and we just hugged each other. We were started saying, "Oh, my goodness, this is crazy. What's going on here?" We just heard about there's another plane that just hit Washington, D.C. We were getting nervous.
I started helping them out for about an hour, just directing the people, where to go, go to a safer place and not to panic, to calm down and everything. I was there with them for two hours. After two hours, I hooked up with paramedics. I was with them, they went to Bellvue Hospital, and I was helping out at Bellvue hospital, bringing patients in from the streets, for about two hours, approximately.
After that I was with - - we went south together. We went down to get more patients to bring to the hospital. We went down south. For

L. SANCHEZ
some reason I just couldn't find them anymore.
So I saw some units from Brooklyn, some people that I know. So I hooked up with them for a little while, and they brought me over to Chelsea Piers. That's where we were just all stationed and doing triage.
From there on we just stayed all together. I saw more people that I graduated with and started helping them and just broke down. We both broke down and couldn't believe what we saw. It was just crazy, the things that we saw.
We never expected to see something like this, and we were never prepared for anything like this. We thought we were prepared for anything at the academy. In two weeks we just - - we wouldn't believe what we just saw that day of the 11th. It was really intense.
I was worried about my parents, calling them. I couldn't get in contact with them.
I got over to the station about 2:00 in the morning. I was working about 20 hours that day. I was exhausted, went home, just broke down. My mother broke down also. I said to

L. SANCHEZ 10
myself whatever God wants, if that's his will for this to happen, that's the way it's going to happen if that's the way he wants it. That's just the way it's going to be.
I tried to keep myself calm and
That's all that I saw that day, the things that I felt.
Q. Do you know where you were when the second tower came down?
A. The second tower?
Q. Were you in the area when the second tower came down or were you further away?
A. When we got there, I don't know if the first tower fell or not. What I know is when we got there - - I couldn't see the second tower.
All I saw was the first tower. I don't know if it was the first or second. All I know is that when I got there there was a lot of people. It was one of the towers - - I can't remember whether

L . SANCHEZ
it was one or two.
A ll I know i s approximately 15 minutes
and the collapse, everybody just sprinted. Everything was a mess. I ended up -- people ended up i n New Jersey, Queens, Bronx, everywhere. Everything was just a l l mixed up. From then on, I was with police officers and other units.
Q. Is there anything else you would like to add to this interview in regards to the events that happened before noon?
A. Before noon? Not really.
Q. Okay. I thank you very much for conducting this interview with me?
MR. ECCLESTON: The time i s 2308, and this interview i s concluded.
File No. 9110129
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
     LIEUTENANT GEORGE J. DeSIMONE
   Interview Date:  October 22, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
G. DeSIMONE
2
          MR. CUNDARI:  Today's date is October 22nd,
2001.  The time is 1330 hours.  I'm George Cundari.
I'm with Richie Dun of the New York City Fire
Department.  I'm conducting an interview with the
following individual:
     Q.   Please state your name, rank, title and
assigned command.
     A.   George J. DeSimone, Lieutenant, Engine
Company 224.
     Q.   Can you please state the events regarding the
day of September 11th, 2001?
     A.   Sure.  It was about 8:45 or so.  We were
watching the morning news in the firehouse, in the back
room, and we saw the first plane go in or photos of the
first plane hit the Trade Center.  I said to the guys
in the firehouse to get ready, I'm sure that we'd be
moving on this, whether we were going to go to the fire
or we were going to relocate to some other engine
company in Manhattan.  About two minutes passed, and I
believe the time was 8:54 when we got the ticket to
leave.
          As we opened the front door of quarters,
there were already papers and other kinds of debris
falling outside on Hicks Street.  We mounted the rig.
G. DeSIMONE
3
We went down Columbia Street.  The guys who were
looking north sitting in the rig saw the second plane
hit.  We were en route to the staging area at Hamilton
Avenue.  When we got there, I don't think we were there
more than two minutes and we were told to head into
Manhattan.
          We went through the Battery Tunnel.  When we
came out of the Battery Tunnel, we were on West Street,
very close to the Trade Center, and that was one of my
problems with the whole setup initially.  As we pulled
close to the Trade Center, the tower, we saw airplane
parts.  We saw bodies.  We saw body parts.  What we did
then was we decided to move a little bit further west
on West Street to the furthermost point that we could.
     Q.   Was there a lot of commotion and chaos in the
street?
     A.   At that time it appeared to be pretty quiet.
There were a few rigs in the street around us.  I
couldn't even tell you what the numbers of those rigs
were.
     Q.   What about civilians?
     A.   I really don't recollect seeing any civilians
at that time.
          As I said, we pulled west to get out of there
G. DeSIMONE
4
because I thought we were in part of the exposure at
this point.  No sooner did we do that, we went west, as
I said, and just a little bit north to get out of that
area, and there was a lieutenant in a white shirt, I
presumed from Metrotech, who came over and he said to
me, "Go up the street north and find a hydrant.  You're
going to relay water."  I don't recall what company he
wanted us to relay water to.
          We went up to the first hydrant and there
were too many vehicles around us, so we went up to
about the second hydrant.  He also said initially to
make sure that we maintain an aisleway in the middle so
that emergency vehicles could get to and from.
          As we pulled up and got to the second
hydrant, we noticed that there was transmission fluid
leaking from our apparatus.  What I wanted to do was
make sure the apparatus was parked and out of the way
of this little aisleway that they wanted us to keep.
So we had to jockey through a few vehicles.  We had to
jockey a few other vehicles around so we could put our
apparatus close to that hydrant and hook up.
          In the meantime, when we saw the transmission
fluid leaking on the ground, one of the guys,
Firefighter Saulle, went underneath with a wedge and he
G. DeSIMONE
5
tried to put the chock into that, and he did in fact
stop the transmission leaking to a great extent.  At
that point, I took my extra riding list and I went down
back in front of the Trade towers, and I'm not sure if
it was the north tower or the south tower, but I went
to what appeared to be the command post.
          At the command post I saw Chief Ganci, I saw
Chief Downey and a bunch of other Fire Department
bigwigs, and I gave them my riding list.  We were on
the apron of a building opposite the tower on the west
side of the street, and it looked like it was going to
be an underneath parking garage.  We were on the apron
of that at that point in time.
          After that, I got out of there as quick as I
could because the building was decaying.  I mean, there
was fire coming out of it, fire dropping down, and at
that point I think we started to notice bodies dropping
from the buildings.  In that amount of time, and I
can't tell you how long the frame was, maybe about a
half hour, maybe 20 minutes, maybe two hours, we saw
multiple bodies.  I probably counted 20 bodies that had
jumped from the windows.
          As we got back up the street -- they had told
me from the command post to just wait, that they would
G. DeSIMONE
6
tell us what to do.  The next thing I know, we heard a
little bit of a rumbling, and then white powder came
from the first collapsed building.  I thought it was an
explosion initially.  We got hit with the powder.  We
tried to run.  We got hit with the powder.  It took a
few minutes to clear.
          After that, we started triaging as many
firefighters and civilians as we could.  It was
basically cuts, scratches and eyes that were irritated,
and we tried to irrigate as many of those eyes that we
could.
     Q.   Are we talking about a lot of firefighters
and civilians?  Was it a large group?
     A.   I would say those rigs that were parked in
and near where we were, and I'd say we were maybe 200
feet north of that first footbridge, maybe 20 or 30
firefighters in and around that area, to include us,
and maybe another 20 or 30 civilians at that point.
They all looked like they had just come out of a
snowstorm.  We did that for the better part of a half
hour or better.
          Right after that, in my mind, I heard a
rumbling, and it was almost as if it was the roller
coaster at Coney Island.  It seemed like a metal
G. DeSIMONE
7
clanging on metal sound.  Then we saw a black cloud
come out, and I told everybody to run.  We ran as fast
as we could as far north as we could.  At that point we
had gotten separated.  We couldn't outrun a cloud.
          As for me, I got knocked down.  I thought it
was the day I was going to die.  I got knocked down and
I put my mask on and it was full of debris in my face
piece.  When I started inhaling, I took a lot of stuff
in from whatever was caught in my mask.  I thought I
was going to have a heart attack initially.  I heard my
heart pumping, and when you're encapsulated with the
helmet and the mask and the face piece on, it was kind
of horrible.
          After that, I still thought it was an
explosion.  I thought it was some kind of thermal
explosion where I'm either going to get burnt -- and I
had kind of ideas that it was going to be something
like Hiroshima where all this heat was coming at me and
we were going to get burnt -- or if the heat didn't
burn me, I thought that all the parts coming out of
this building, the windows, metal, all the things like
that, that I might be severed in half.  It turned
completely black.  I was still on the ground at this
point, and I just thought we were going to die at that
point.
G. DeSIMONE
8
          Right after that, probably the better part of
anywhere from five to 15 or 20 minutes, I don't even
recall, it started to lift a little bit, and looking
through my face piece it appeared to be like a dreary
day that you see in a newspaper article or photo from
maybe Rochester or Buffalo in the middle of the
winter.  Visibility was limited.  At this point my
concern was where were the rest of my firefighters?
          It took me the better part of 40 minutes, 45
minutes, to regroup and find all of them.  At that
point, I found them someplace north of Stuyvesant High
School but on the east side of Vesey Street.  As we all
got together, we shook off what we could and we
assessed if anybody was really hurt to any extent, and
we kind of just sat around for a point there.  At times
they tried to ask me, "Lieutenant, let's do something,
let's get busy," this that and the next thing.
          I found a command post again and that
appeared to be north of that first footbridge, and I
checked in with whomever.  I don't even know at that
point.  It was a quasi command post at best.
     Q.   Were the radios working at the time?
     A.   The radios were working.  At one point they
G. DeSIMONE
9
were very, very silent, and at another point it
appeared that there was so much chatter on it that you
couldn't decipher any kind of a message clearly coming
through.
     Q.   Did you hear a lot of Maydays on the radio?
A. No,Ididnot. Ididnothearalotof Maydays. That's fact. There may have been stories of hearing a lot of Maydays, but I didn't recall.
     Q.    Were you on frequency 1?
     A.   Yes.
          I checked in at the command post and said
that we're available.  They said just take it easy, sit
there, and basically throughout the remainder of the
next couple of hours, past noontime, I'd say, we were
just hanging out, sitting together, and just scared as
hell.  We saw jets overhead, commercial airliner,
military jets, Air Force jets, and we didn't know what
the hell was going on.
     Q.   Between the first and the second building,
the first one you only had the white smoke and the
second building you had the black smoke?
     A.   Yes.  I mean, the visibility was reduced the
first time pretty much, but there was no visibility the
second time.  Absolutely none.  We were in pitch
black.
G. DeSIMONE
10
          Later, I'm going to say sometime around
12:00ish, 1300 hours, we heard them calling, "224 give
me more water."  Sometime in that interim somebody had
moved our apparatus.  They had hooked up on Vesey
Street at West, and our pumper was pumping.  Every time
we heard 224, we thought they were calling us, you
know, just the numbers of the apparatus, the
identification numbers.  So we made our way back to
Vesey Street and we manned our own pump pretty much the
rest of the day, and for the next two days our pumper
operated at that particular site.
          That's about all I know.  More members of the
unit showed up with the recall.  I was able to make a
phone call home to my bride, my mother, let them know
we were all right.  After that, there's nothing else
that I can really tell you.  It's just a bad day, a
real bad day.
          I don't think we understood the magnitude of
what was going on.  I was fearful that there were bombs
in the building.  That was my first thought, being the
military kind of guy that I am.
     Q.   You knew right away it was a terrorist
attack?
Q. A. Q.
 So basically that was the end of the day?
That was pretty much it.
Were there any other officers or any vehicles
G. DeSIMONE
11
     A.   When I saw the second plane, yes.  There was
no question.  The first one could have been an
accident, pilot error, heart attack of the pilot or
crew.  The second one, there was no doubt about it.
One horrible day.  That's all I can say about it.
          Is there anything you want to clarify or you
want to ask me to clarify?  That's how I saw it that
day.
that you might remember seeing numbers while you were
driving down that lane?
     A.   When we met the staging area, I honestly
can't be sure if it was 202 or 204's apparatus.  There
was a truck company there.  But, again, we were there,
as I said earlier, no more than two minutes.  I'm
thinking more like 30 seconds that we were there.
There was enough confusion going on and we were looking
back north at the Trade Center from the staging area at
the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel and just seeing volumes of
flame coming out of multiple stories.
     Q.   At any time did you see a lot of civilians
between the two collapses?
G. DeSIMONE
12
     A.   I saw a lot of disoriented civilians walking
around.  Most of them were holding their noses, of
course, or their heads, not from any injuries, but I
think they were concerned about what they were inhaling
at that time.
     Q.   Can you just clarify on the map here where
you parked the engine originally?
     A.   To the best of my recollection, I don't know
if it was this bridge.  I'm assuming this is Vesey
Street somewhere here?
     Q.   Here is Vesey, right there.  This is Liberty,
which is the beginning, and this is Vesey.  Liberty is
closer to the Battery Tunnel.  This is the first
pedestrian bridge.  This is the second pedestrian
bridge.
          MR. DUN:   Here is the Winter Garden right
there.
     A.   See, I have it backwards.  In my mind, Vesey
was sitting somewhere over here.
     Q.   So you actually were on Liberty?
     A.   We came up through the mouth of the tunnel.
     Q.   Yes.  That's right over here.
     A.   Okay.  We came right up in front over here,
and parts were falling off.  The building was decaying.
G. DeSIMONE
Q.   So that would be Liberty.
13
     A.   Okay.  We pulled then across here, west, the
west side of West Street, and then we went north about
over here, maybe Barclay, Vesey to Barclay.
     Q.   Right.  Because Stuyvesant is over here on
Chambers.
     A.   We ran like hell and we wound up -- there's a
school over here on this side, too, I believe.
     Q.   Yes.  That's the college.
     A.   New York City Community maybe or something?
     Q.   Yes.  BMCC, right.
     A.   That's where we recouped, up that way.
          The only other thing that really scared me
was, between these towers this way, and there was
another very tall building here, most of the forces
were massed in and around here, between these two.  My
only thought was that this one on the north side is
coming down, too, trapping any secondary forces that
were still alive at that point in there, you know, it
was a shitty day.
          MR. CUNDARI:  I'd like to thank you,
Lieutenant DeSimone, for conducting this interview.
The time now is 1345.  This concludes the interview.
File No. 9110130
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
             ELOY ALBUERME
   Interview Date:  October 23, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today is October 23, 2001.
     I'm Paul Radenberg of the Fire Department, City of
     New York.  The time is now 0603 hours.  I am
     conducting an interview with --
          LIEUTENANT ALBUERME:  Lieutenant Albuerme,
     Shield 108.
          MR. RADENBERG:  Of EMS Battalion No. 8.
          This interview is being conducted at EMS
     Battalion 8 regarding the events of September 11,
     2001.
          LIEUTENANT ALBUERME:  On September 11, 2001,
I was assigned to an M.O.S. daughter who was sick at
the school.  Responded there.  Before we responded
there, I heard the call come down that an explosion
occurred at the World Trade Center.  Then I called my
CO, and I advised him of such so he can respond.
          At the completion of my assignment, I called
citywide through my cell phone, advised the citywide
tour commander that I was going to respond to the World
Trade Center.
          I responded into the World Trade Center
southbound on 7th Avenue into West Broadway, which at
West Broadway and Murray Street, I stopped to assist a
unit that had eleven patients from -- that were injured
ELOY ALBUERME
3
due to the incident.
          At the completion of that, I then went down
to Barclay street, which I made a right to West Street,
which I made a right, which I also encountered a couple
of units, a few units that were sitting right there on
West Street and Murray.
          I asked one of the medics to have all the
vehicles turn around facing northbound and to collect a
key and make that as a staging area.
          At that time, one of the trade buildings
collapsed, and I turned right -- turned left on Murray
Street, using the District 37 building as my cover,
which at that time I was screaming out to everybody to
come my way to use the building as a cover, and then
after that I assisted (inaudible) for the people to be
evacuated, and then I don't know how I got to Chambers
Street, but I went down on Chambers Street, and we just
started setting up triage area at the Manhattan
Community College, so in case we had to take any of the
personnel, and after that I encountered a couple of EMS
personnel that had their cell phone on them, which I
used their cell phone number as a communication device
in case -- so that way we can talk to each other, since
all the radio communication at that time was down.
ELOY ALBUERME
4
          On my way to where the EMS command center
was, I went over there and I tried to speak to an EMS
chief that I have started communication, I had two
different staging areas set up for ambulance to respond
in case we need them.
          At that time, I was told to go and see the
captain.  The captain then told me to go see the
chief.  The chief told me to go back to the captain,
who told me I will be in charge of transport right at
the Chambers command center.
          After that, it just stayed there until 2:30
in the morning, return to the station, and I went
home.
     Q.   The first unit that you met up with on Murray
and West Broadway, do you remember what unit it was,
EMS unit or a volley?
     A.   They were a vollie unit.
     Q.   A vollie unit?
     A.   Okay, they were a vollie unit, and then I had
a 911 unit.  I think it was ten charlie from -- sorry,
from Lenox Hill, and I think one unit from St.
Vincent's.
     Q.   And on West and Barclay, the units that were
there?
ELOY ALBUERME
5
     A.   All EMS units.
     Q.   All EMS units?
     A.   Right.
     Q.   Do you remember which units they were offhand
or --
     A.   No idea.
     Q.   Recognize any of the personnel?
     A.   I didn't recognize no other personnel.  That
is why I asked who was the senior man, and I had to put
a senior man in charge of that staging area.
          What I did ask was turn around and face north
so in case they have to transport, they had a clear
avenue to transport, and as they were turning the
vehicle around, that's when the tower building came
down.  I don't know which building came down, but I
know one of the buildings came down.
     Q.   When you were on Murray Street itself, by the
D.C. 37 building, any other EMS personnel with you?
     A.   No, I was by myself.
     Q.   You were by yourself?  They all went north on
the Westside Highway?
     A.   They all went north on the Westside Highway.
     Q.   With the collapse?
     A.   Right, with the collapse.
6
     A.   There were a whole bunch of chiefs there.
The captain I just don't remember his name, but there
were a whole bunch of EMS chiefs there.
     Q.   And they were up on Chambers?
     A.   Chambers, there is -- yeah, they established
command.
     Q.   Anything else you'd like to add?
     A.   Basically no.  I think that we should start
doing more drilling on an incident like this, as far as
I think that we haven't done in many years because
they're too comfortable.  It's not only keeping in
practice to have a lot of (inaudible) to make sure that
everything is done correctly.
          You have proper training, like the army had
the war games and things like that.  We have this
command, this system.  We should have that more often,
you know, and in a city anything could happen.
          MR. RADENBERG:  Okay.  The time is now 0609
     hours, and the interview is concluded.
ELOY ALBUERME
Q.   Do you know that chief and the captain?
File No. 9110131
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       PARAMEDIC ARTURO GONZALEZ
   Interview Date:  October 23, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
A. GONZALEZ 2
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today is October 23rd,
     2001.  I'm Paul Radenberg of the Fire
     Department, City of New York.  I'm
     conducting an interview with --
          PARAMEDIC GONZALEZ:  Arturo Gonzalez at
     Battalion 8 and I'm paramedic 3675.
          MR. RADENBERG:  This interview is being
     conducted at EMS Battalion 8 regarding the
     events of the morning of September 11th.
     The interview start time is 0634.
     A.   We start with -- we received a call to
go down to the World Trade Center.  The exact
time I don't know.  It was about 8:40, 8:45,
around there.  When we responded down, we went
down West Street.  We saw building number one had
fire on the top floor.  You could see that right
actually from 34th Street.
          Upon arrival we parked at West Street
in front of One World Trade Center.  That's where
we stationed at.  We took our equipment.  We
stayed there at least 24 minutes, more or less,
give or take.
          The second explosion came in building
number two, in that area.  We didn't actually see
A. GONZALEZ 3
the plane, but we heard the explosion.  We were
told to go into that building, Merrill Lynch
right there, the building in the lobby to set up
the triage.
          As soon as we set up triage there,
building number two went down, and all the
windows in the Merrill Lynch lobby, they were all
out.
          We ran out of that building, and we
went to proceed to the next building that was
across the street.  I'm assuming that's the
American Express building we ended up on.  And we
went in that building, and all the glass exploded
in that building too.
          So we went out of that building and ran
into the park that's behind the Winter Garden, in
that area.  It was too much smoke coming out of
the whole area.
          We ran to the Stuyvesant High School,
that I don't see in the map there.  We stayed a
few minutes there.  People started running up
West Street.  Me and my partner that was -- we
switched partners because my partner parted --
Rick Perez, we decided to go back and get the
A. GONZALEZ 4
MERV.  The exact location should be right here.
So I'm not sure which street this is, Merrill
Lynch on the right side.
     Q.   South side of the Merrill Lynch
building.
     A.   We picked up the MERV there because it
was abandoned because of the collapse of the
building.  We proceeded eastbound to West Street,
and we stationed at Vesey and West.  We were told
to stop and treat patients, because patients were
coming out of the area.
          From that location, we stayed there all
night up till 6:30 in the morning, 5:45 to 6:00
in the morning to be precise, treating patients
there and treating members of the service and all
the departments.  So during that time we saw --
mostly we saw maybe two patients, three patients.
          Then from there by mistake I took a
walk up to this building here.  I'm not sure what
this is, one of these buildings, and there were
154 elderly trapped in the basement -- not
trapped but they wanted to get out.  We had to
relocate it back to my commander and see how we
could get them out.  We decided it was safer to
A. GONZALEZ 5
stay there.
          Then we went back to the MERV and just
kept on treating patients all night, just back
and forth.  If you're asking for the time frame
between the period of the plane crash and the
second one and the building collapse, we were
from the location into this building, switched to
another building, ran to the park and then ran to
Stuyvesant High School.  Then we relocate to get
the MERV.  That's a big vehicle we had.
          When we were trying to proceed north,
we were stopped at Vesey and West to treat
patients, and we didn't move from that location
all that time.
     Q.   When you arrived here on West opposite
number One World Trade --
A. Right.
     Q.   -- aside from your partner, did you see
anybody else there from EMS or the Fire
Department that you recognized?  Do you know the
names?
     A.   Not Fire Department.  There were some
Fire Department vehicles there.  EMS, there were
about four or five units there at that location,
A. GONZALEZ 6
standing there.
     Q.   City units or privates?
     A.   There was only one city unit, and the
rest were voluntaries.
     Q.   Do you recall what unit that was, the
city unit?
     A.   I think it was 7 Charlie.
     Q.   7 Charlie?
     A.   Yes.  7 Charlie was the unit that was
there, city unit.  That's the only one I remember
as a city unit.
     Q.   Did you recognize the crew at all?
     A.   Yeah, one of the crew members.  No,
both of them.  I remember both.  They're working
here today, I think.  They both were on the
scene, yes.  The others were voluntaries.
     Q.   Any EMS officers that you recall there,
lieutenants, captains?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Chiefs?
     A.   There was Captain Stone.  Chief
Carrasquillo was there, Chief Kowalczyk.  That's
all I can remember offhand.  At that time frame,
those are the three I remember at the moment.  In
A. GONZALEZ 7
the evening I saw most of the other chiefs, like
Chief McCracken, the captains and all that stuff,
Pinky.  Lieutenant Albuerme was there too.  But
then the time frame from the plane crash and in
that time, those are the three I remember.
     Q.   When the building started coming down
and you went into Merrill Lynch, Two World
Financial, did everybody that was with you on
West Street go in there, as far as you know?
     A.   I can't remember, because there was so
much panic and running, everybody was spread.  I
don't think everybody entered the building.  I
think some people just went up West Street and
some people went out the other direction.  They
all were separating.
          We actually stayed about 20 minutes
here watching people jumping out of the building.
Actually they were jumping, landing on West
Street.  There was about 20 -- we watched about
18 to 20 people jump out of the building, and
they were landing on West Street or right in
front of the World Trade Center.
     Q.   The concourse?
     A.   Yeah.  They were just landing in front.
A. GONZALEZ 8
We could watch them and that's it.
          Then when the second plane crashed, the
explosion, they decided to move us -- move
further up.  Somebody was screaming that another
plane crashed.  The next thing is we're in here
but running out of all these buildings because of
the explosion and the crashes that every building
was creating and spreading all over the place.
          Most of the units disappeared and went
up.  I think what happened -- we're the only one
that came back and picked up the MERV then stayed
there.  We were the only unit there for a while,
up to maybe them, they came back to us.
     Q.   Anything else you'd like to add,
opinions?
     A.   No.  I mean, we were not expecting what
happened there.  They caught us by surprise.  I
just remember that one of the officers took all
the keys to -- usually you park somewhere and the
officer takes the keys.  That officer was never
found.  Most of these vehicles were left on the
scene because the reason is they didn't have the
keys.
     Q.   They didn't have the keys.
A. GONZALEZ 9
     A.   The officer that took the keys, we
never found.  I don't know who it was, but we
never found them at that time period.  Luckily
Rick had a copy of the MERV, and we wanted to
move slow but we had to stop because we were the
only ambulance active at that moment, the MERV.
They told us to stop and treat people, and that's
where we stayed all night.
     Q.   Okay.  I thank you very much.
          MR. RADENBERG:  The time is now 0643.
     The interview is concluded.
File No. 9110132
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
             EMT JOSE PEREZ
   Interview Date:  October 23, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
J. PEREZ 2
          MR. TAMBASCO:  Today is October 23rd.
     I'm Mike Tambasco with the World Trade
     Center Task Force.  We're conducting an
     interview into the events of the morning of
     September 11th at the World Trade Center.
     We are in the lounge at EMS Battalion 8.
     The time is 6:04 a.m., and the interview is
     being conducted with --
          EMT PEREZ:  Jose Perez, emergency
     medical technician, Battalion 8.
     Q.   Jose, tell us your story.
     A.   From the beginning we were at 48th and
Lexington or thereabouts when we heard it come
over the radio that a plane hit one of the World
Trade Centers.  At first I just thought it was
like one of those single-engine planes.
          Then I guess because of all the
excitement and everything we kind of just started
to head down to some extent.  I know all the
south units were already down there.  So we kind
of UCA'd ourselves, and we ended up at 11th and
seventh in front of St. Vincent's.  We could see
both of the towers.  At that time when we got
down there, they were both engulfed in flames.
J. PEREZ 3
          At some point we just saw the first
tower fall, and we were amazed.  I was with my
partner, Joe Valdivia, and we both were shaking
our heads and were shaking.  We decided to go
down, and we took the West Side Highway.  At some
point we just couldn't go any further because
people were starting to come up, so we threw it
in park and basically just --
     Q.   Do you know about how far down you got?
     A.   I don't really remember.  I think it
was -- I want to say Bank Street -- actually it
was further down, I think.  I don't recall
exactly.
Q. Okay.
     A.   So we just helped as much as we can
with everybody that was coming out.  Then the
second building fell.  I think for me it was just
unbelievable, the whole thing.  For the first few
days it was something that I thought didn't
really happen.  I just had to convince myself
that it did.  I just had a good support system at
my home with my wife and family.  The people
here, it was good to talk to.
          I think initially the problem was
J. PEREZ 4
people who were coming out, some of us were
missing.  So we really didn't know what was going
on with certain people here.
     Q.   A lot of misinformation.  You had no
idea?
     A.   Right.  Especially after the first
building fell because everybody was calling a
mayday, and we didn't know who was actually close
enough to be involved in all that.  Luckily
everybody from our station's okay.  I knew by
face certain people but not really personally.
So it's pretty devastating all around.
          I think that's basically it.  It was
traumatic.  I think it was helpful being here for
a while with everybody.
     Q.   I was going to say, were you working
for like days after that?
     A.   Yeah, it seemed long for a few days
afterwards, but it kind of diminished a little
bit.  We coped.  We were able to help each other
out and support each other.
          That's basically it.
     Q.   Is there anything else you would like
to add to it at all?
J. PEREZ 5
     A.   No, just like I said, I think it was
very unreal at the time.  It seemed like it was a
movie and it wasn't really happening.  After a
few hours, you know it's real.
     Q.   All right, Jose.  I thank you for your
interview?
          MR. TAMBASCO:  The interview we're
     concluding at 6:08 a.m.
File No. 9110133
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
          EMT NORBERTO TORRES
   Interview Date:  October 23, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
N. TORRES 2
          MR. TAMBASCO:  Today is October 23rd.
     I'm Mike Tambasco, assigned to the World
     Trade Center Task Force.  The time is now
     0545 a.m., again, on the 23rd of October.
     We're in the lounge at Battalion 8
     conducting an interview into the events of
     the morning of September 11th at the World
     Trade Center.  The interview is being
     conducted with --
          EMT TORRES:  Norberto J. Torres,
     assigned to Battalion 8.
     Q.   Norberto, I just ask you to tell me
your story.
     A.   On September 11th we had been on a job
with a GYN. hemorrhage going into Bellevue when I
heard over the radio that an airplane had struck
the World Trade Center.  We dropped off the
patient, and as I de-conned the bus, I continued
to listen to what the radio was saying, what was
going over, the transmissions.
          While we were still 81, I heard someone
scream over the radio that another plane had
struck the second tower.  Then upon hearing this,
me and my partner decided let's go buff the job.
N. TORRES 3
We'll head down there.  We'll see what's up.
          We got assigned to the call, headed
down there.  As we approached, we saw the towers
were -- smoke billowing, the towers engulfed in
flame.  We proceeded to where they assigned us to
West and Vesey.  Originally we parked at the end
of the line on Vesey, which is further in front
of the -- what is that place?  The Tex-Mex place
at the end on the right-hand side, we were right
across from that.
          Lieutenant Nevins at the scene informed
me to move the bus, that he wanted it closer up
so that we would be ready to pick up patients and
head to the hospital if we're needed.
          We moved all our equipment and got
ready for whatever procedures that might be
necessary, whether it's to send us further in or
to set up a triage in front of AMEX.
          As I moved the bus, we got closer to
the zone.  You saw people jumping out of the
buildings.  You saw debris everywhere, numerous
injured personnel running towards us, everyone
covers in ashes and soot.
          We parked the vehicle, we got all our
N. TORRES 4
equipment off, and we started heading towards the
corner of West and Vesey.  They were just
throwing all the patients towards us, trying to
get everybody out of the building.
          We treated, as we went, numerous
patients, putting them in the back.  Those that
couldn't walk, we carried those that needed to be
on a stretcher while not -- we got them whatever
help we could and got them far back.
          The dust was intense, so I ran back to
go get some masks, and we met -- there were
chiefs and whatnot on the scene.  One of the
captains asked me to get all the masks from my
vehicle and bring the masks to the personnel, the
PD, whoever was there that didn't have a mask.  I
did that.  I also went into other vehicles, got
the masks, and gave masks to other people.
          From there I was talking to J.R. Rivera
at the time trying to get one of the chiefs a
mask when the first building started to come
down.  All we heard was like a loud, thunderous
roar.  At first everybody was like, oh, no,
another plane?  There was all kinds of reports
going on that there were numerous planes headed
N. TORRES 5
towards the financial district.
          You looked up and all you saw was a
wall of debris blocking out the sky coming at
you.  We ran.  I ended up in an outcropping of
one of the buildings, just hiding until the
debris blew past.  It seemed like forever.  It
took maybe less than a minute or whatnot of just
everything being blown past.
          Around the corner where they had set up
the new staging for West and Vesey, which was --
excuse me, I don't know the name of that.
     Q.   Probably westward, right, towards --
     A.   North End?
     Q.   North End?
     A.   Right.  We were redirected there.  They
brought the MERV.  One of the lieutenants asked
for volunteers to go get the vehicles, so I
volunteered.  He described the car where he had
placed the keys for the vehicles, because as you
got there you were to turn over your keys.  But
since some of the vehicles -- a lot of the
vehicles, the doors were locked, we needed a key.
He described he had placed them on top of a blue
Crown Victoria.
N. TORRES 6
          So I went back to the scene.  Even
though every car was gray, I found a Crown
Victoria at the scene where he was.  I started
digging under the pile of debris that was at the
wheel well.  There was nothing on top of the car.
We found the keys.
          I handed off some keys to some fellow
EMTs that were there, and we started to just
bring the buses back around the corner.  We got
the majority of them back around the corner.
There was only like one or two that were dead
that wouldn't turn over.
          As we did that, somebody called my
attention -- as I checked one of the vehicles
that was dead, I believe vehicle 470, it just
wouldn't turn on, PD called my attention that
there were a couple of injured people that were
bleeding everywhere.  They wanted some help
bringing them around the corner.
          I headed towards the corner of West and
Vesey, and we started to lend a hand just
bringing people around the corner, numerous
injured.  At that point I believe the second
building came down.  It was just another loud,
N. TORRES 7
thunderous roar and everybody just running,
scurrying.  No matter what was wrong with the
person, you just get up and run.  If you can't
run, I'll carry you, whatever.
          We made it around the corner.  We stood
there.  From that point Chief Kowalczyk, he came
up to me and said they were setting up a staging
at Chelsea Piers and he needed me to drive him up
there.  So I jumped in an ambulance with him and
escorted -- well, I took him up to Chelsea Piers.
From there we set up a staging area at Chelsea
Piers with the ambulances that had been
dispatched to that area over there.
          Being that I felt I wasn't doing enough
there by being at Chelsea Piers, I jumped on the
back of the U.S.A.R. gator that was heading back
towards the zone.  From there I went over to the
school where they said we had a command post.  We
had everything on Chambers and West.
          I went there and informed the
lieutenants that I was back, because as I had
been told, I was presumed dead.  Since they had a
problem, they hadn't seen me for about a half
hour.  So I spoke to my lieutenants and told them
N. TORRES 8
I was still amongst the rank and file.  From
there I was sent into the auditorium with all the
other EMTs to prepare for whatever the scenario
was.
          We were in the auditorium of Stuyvesant
High School for what felt like forever.  It
turned out to be like eight, ten hours.  From
there they just -- nobody basically knew what to
do.  This had never happened before, so nobody
knew how to help or anything like that.
          So they started to send out teams to go
to the wreckage and to help with the morgue and
to just basically search and see if there's still
anybody down there.  So we waited, and I managed
to get on a team that was going to set up a
forward triage in one of the hotels along I guess
North End Avenue back there, River Terrace, maybe
one of those hotels, apartment buildings.
          Under the command of Lieutenant
Eppinger, me and the fellow EMTs, we basically
cleaned out an area, set up a treatment area for
irrigations, cuts, bruises.  We still expected we
were going to get patients at that point.  From
there we just waited.  We were there maybe five
N. TORRES 9
hours.  No patients.  There was nobody coming out
of there.
          From there, being that I had been on
the scene for like 22 hours, they decided to
relieve people and send in fresh batches.  So
from there they just shipped me out.  I came back
to the station, took a shower, washed off all the
soot, put on a brand-new uniform and went back
down to the scene.
     Q.   Anything else you would like to put in?
     A.   No.  I think I'll keep my mouth shut.
     Q.   Not a problem.  Thank you so much for
the interview.
     A.   No problem.
          MR. TAMBASCO:  The interview is over at
     0556 hours.

File No. 9110134
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW DAVID BLACKSBERG
Interview Date: October 23, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick

MR. DUN: Today i s October 23, 2001. The time is 555 hours in the morning, and this is Richard Dun with the New York City Fire Department, working with Marisa Abbriano, and we are interviewing --
M R . B L A C K S B E R G : D A V ID B L A C K S B E R G , E M T , Battalion 31.
Q. Can you just describe in your own words regarding the events of September 11, 2001?
A. About eight o'clock in the morning, we were driving by the base of the Brooklyn Bridge, my partner and I, and we sat, and an ALS vehicle approached us.
We were sitting by -- we looked up and all of a sudden
- - we were ready - - we heard something, and we looked up because we were right across the water, and we had seen Tower 1 a t that time was already on fire.
The paramedic unit that we work with approached us and said, "Let's go." We went, and we were able to get onto the Brooklyn Bridge and cross. We were a t the intersection, I guess, of West and Liberty, a little bit -- a little bit further north of that, so we were right across the street of 1World Trade. We got out of the ALS vehicle, and I -- we parked our vehicles right across the street. We got

                 DAVID BLACKSBERG
out. We put our helmets on and our turnout coats.
We approached the building, and we heard some
loud noise. We felt some rumbling, so we looked up, and there was another plane coming in. Went behind, I guess it banked around another building, so at that time we didn't really see it hit the building, but we heard it, and we felt it, and we saw it approaching.
We got to get back in our vehicles. So we got back in, and we only ended up going - - I guess it felt like a mile away, but it's half a block.
Q. Where did you first stop the vehicle?
A. We first stopped right on the west side. Q. West Street?
A. Right on West Street, yeah, and Westside
Highway.
Q. Right.
A. Right in front of 1 World Trade.
Q. Okay.
A. We were right in at the - - there's I guess
what is it called, the median - - no. Q. The walkway?
A. Yeah, the walkway in between the highway. Q. That goes into - -
A. No, the one that goes right in between the

DA VID BLACKSBERG
highway.
Q. By the Winter Garden?
A. Y eah.
Q. That glass thing.
A. Right. We originally parked over there right
on the highway, and we ended up parking -- moving our vehicles, and we parked underneath the pedestrian walkway going from Winter Garden t o I guess it was 2 World Financial Center, over there.
We parked our vehicles there. We got out, and we had made our own staging over there at that time, because everybody was split up, and we had to split up once we got out of our vehicles, and we saw that second plane hit. We had to move, and when we moved, we wound up making our own staging.
Q. Was there a l o t of chaos, commotion, people running?
A. There were a lot of people running all over the place and --
Q. Running towards you?
A. They were running away. Well, toward us, toward other vehicles and just away in general. I didn't even know until a couple of people told me later that there were a whole lot of people crossing the

                 DAVID BLACKSBERG
Brooklyn Bridge, but I just knew everybody was scattered all over the place.
At that time, we had approximately four people approach us, and a fifth one was coming saying,
"There's somebody coming that's really badly burned." I got the ALS unit ready, and I told them, and we had the person that was really badly burned - - I told them to get back onto the paramedic trunk, and they took care of him.
Q. A. Q. A.
Who was the ALS unit?
32 Victor.
Do you know their names?
Ellen - - I don't remember the last name - -
and her
Island College Hospital.
partner. I don't recall. They are from Long
Q. Okay.
A. And so they took the burn victim while we were handling everybody else, and I had called over the radio telling them that we had formed a new staging area. I don't know whether they heard me or not, because there was a whole lot of chaos.
Q. Was this before either tower came down?
A. Yeah, this was way before either tower came down. This was right after Tower 2 had gotten hit,

                 DAVID BLACKSBERG
within two minutes I believe, if that long.
So 32, they took the burn victim to Cornell,
and we were by ourselves, my partner and I, just getting overloaded with a whole lot of patients, and we had no idea if there was anybody else coming. We stabilized them as much as we could.
People were coming down with minor bruises. They asked if they needed to go to the hospital. I said, "If you're walking and can tell what's going on1 you can, you know, just keep walking away. There is nothing much I can do for you right now, because I have a whole lot of people."
I don't know, you know, a whole lot of commotion going on, so finally everybody is saying, you know, there's people coming or there's somebody down in front of the building. I'm approaching the building, but there's a whole lot of debris coming down, so I decided not to an approach, go into the building. Got as close as I could.
There was just bodies everywhere. We were watching them coming down. We heard them coming down, everybody screaming. A lot of debris. We didn't even know what it was. I guess it was metal, and papers and computers, I guess, we saw computer stuff on the

                 DAVID BLACKSBERG
ground, and we just watched and heard people jumping. Someone said, "There's somebody that's still
moving. Somebody is alive." I also saw a dog that was tied up in front of the building, and I approached. I got hit with some debris, so I decided not to go, so I had a lot of people that were walking. I said let me take care of them, because I know I can help them.
I did that, and in a couple of minutes or so a couple of units started approaching, and I told them where we had set up staging because they were also lost, so I was standing on the corner of West, of Westside Highway, and I guess just over by 2 World Financial.
Q. Did you see any officers, captains, chiefs?
A. Not for awhile. Not for awhile. I didn't see a chief, and then a chief came - - I believe he was a fire chief. I told him what we had, and he just took off. He said, "Okay, I'll notify whoever." I said, "Okay fine." Then another chief came, an EMS chief.
Q. Who was that?
A. I don't know his name. I don't remember. I took so many names down, and then it was just so busy. It was really chaotic. When the chief came, I told him what I had, and what was going on and what I had

                 DAVID BLACKSBERG
already done, and I already took down all the names of all the vehicles that had approached, and he didn't seem really to care what was going on.
Finally, we said - - okay, we parked our vehicles, and everything was clustered, and people everywhere, so finally we got some water.
Q. That's when I showed up.
A. Yes, that is when 32 boy had showed up, right when we started to get our vehicles set up.
Q. This is after the first building collapsed or - -
A. Still before.
Q. This still - -
A. Still prior to the buildings coming down. We
were still there watching and hearing people jump, and patients were still approaching. We had cleaned up, you know, staged our vehicles by the water, so that if an emergency did happen that we could take off or we could take as many patients as possible.
There was, I guess, a fire started getting really bad, and a lot of stuff - - well, it was already

                 DAVID BLACKSBERG
bad, but we just stood by and watched people jump. Pretty much that's all we could do is just watch and listen, listen to our radios and see what would happen.
Q. Radio communication was okay? There was no problem with that, other than the chaos on the radio?
A. Therewas -- itwas -- Iguessitwasall right because once they decided what was going to happen, because they - - finally they said that all - - all bosses would go on to citywide and everybody else goes onto Manhattan South. I was finally able to hear that, but they obviously didn't hear me say anything about where I was setting up staging, or didn't want to hear it or anything like that, and so we were overcome with so many people.
Once the vehicles were all set up for, I guess, a new staging area that we had set up over there, it was all set up. We just sat and watched, had people coming to us, and next thing you know, we started hearing - - just actually, there was a lot of rumors that a third plane was going to come in, so we were standing by looking up, listening. There was no third plane. The building started coming down.
Q. Was your vehicle still on the pedestrian walkway?

DA VID BLACKSBERG
A. It was actually half a block up now.
Q. Close (inaudible)?
A. But I -- everything from when I was parked
across the street from One Liberty, right? When I was originally parked from One Liberty to when I finally removed it and cleaned up for the staging, there was only a block, block and a half, so it really wasn't that far. It was right across the street.
We started hearing the building, and we saw it tipping. It was just leaning.
Q. You saw it leaning?
A. Well, I looked up, and I thought I saw it leaning. Later on it was confirmed that it was leaning, and it was starting to come down, and so we just started booking. We ran as fast as we could, wherever we could. Everybody scattered a l l over the place. Nobody knew where anybody else went.
I looked -- I ran, and a whole lot of people, we were a l l running together. I looked back, and it was like it was this cloud of smoke, but it was like an avalanche, because you could see the smoke and everything tumbling right at you. You couldn't see up, you couldn't see back, and no matter how fast you ran, you couldn't out run it, and it overtook us, and

DA VID BLACKSBERG
finally I found my partner.
We grabbed hands, and we just ran, and then
the next thing you know, we had people grabbing my arm. Then they split up us, got my other arm, and my partner, Juan Rios, they grabbed his arms and said, "Where are we going?" Because it was so cloudy and smoky, dusty and everything else that we really didn't know where we were going. We just kept on running.
Everybody was panicking, and I told them
to -- we had babies crying, kids crying, adults not -- lost not knowing what to do, where to go. People are walking back. People are walking i n circles. My partner and I, we were the only EMS people, fire people or anybody that we could see of, even PD. We didn't know where anybody went. Calling on our radio to find out where everybody i s . Nothing. Everybody i s over the radio, so you couldn't do anything.
Finally, we told people to cover their mouths with the T-shirts if they had, cover their mouths with their arms. People just wanted to sit down and do nothing. There was papers and the smell and everything else that was in the smoke that we didn't know about, you know, and the dust. We had them cover -- keep their heads down. People were closing their eyes while

DA VID BLACKSBERG
grabbing onto us. We had a whole chain link of people. Q. All this chain link, was it all EMS people? A. It was just my partner and I that were EMS,
fire or PD. Just the two of us, and we started talking t o people, trying t o calm them down.
Q. Civilians?
A. They were all civilians, and actually quite a few of them were from 1 World Trade. They were from - - I don't know. One girl was telling me she was from the 63rd Floor, and another one was telling me she was from the 84th, and then there was other people, too. I don't remember what floors they told me from, but I remember these two, and they told me that they ran
down, and I see they were s t i l l wearing high heels.
How in the world are you running with these shoes on? So you kind of had to joke around a little bit, even though it wasn't really a joking situation, but you had to calm everybody down. Especially myself, you know.
So I kind of used that to calm myself down and everybody else, joking around as we were walking now, because once you ran and the smoke and everything caught up to you, there was no use running, because
i t ' s already caught up, and you're already breathing the stuff in.

                 DAVID BLACKSBERG
Q. Did you get blown into something, or did you duck under the buses or - -
A. We had finally found a couple of city buses that were just parked just before Battery Park.
Q.
A. anyway . Q. A. ran all
Battery Park City?
Yeah, we ran. Well, it felt like a lot
This is going towards the Battery Tunnel
Okay, so we are down here by the park. We the way down to the park. I can't tell you
what you route we took, because we just - -
Q. I don't think you really care.
A. Because we just kept going around, no.
We went by Battery Park, and we saw two city buses there, and I told them to get on, and they said, "Where are the buses going?" Everybody's asking where the buses are going. I said, "Doesn't matter, as long
as, you know, you're sitting here, and you are away from everything else. Doesn't matter where the buses are going. Right now, doesn't look like they're going anywhere." Everybody is worried about where they were going. I said, "Well, the air is cleaner in here. It's going to be dirty, but it's cleaner in here than it is outside."

                 DAVID BLACKSBERG
At that time, we still didn't have masks. Nobody had masks. Finally we sat everybody in there. My partner and I went back out trying to find more people. A lot of babies, a lot of kids, adults. We told them all where to go. We were directing as many people as we could find that were lost.
Finally, we found two more EMS people, but they weren't working for the Fire Department. They worked for a private company. I think it was Cabrini, but I'm not positive.
Q. Building 2 still didn't go down yet?
A. At that time, we had no idea what was going on, because we were running, and we just heard the first building coming down, so I lost track of time of when the second building was coming down. It sounded like one big rumble, and then it just sounded like it just continued, and I was - - I wasn't really paying attention. I was looking at the sound. I was looking at the smoke and everything. I was listening to the people that were screaming. I didn't really hear another building coming down, so we ended up going into the park, getting people to come down and standing by the water, because there was a little bit of a clearing down there, and everybody standing by the water. We

DA VID BLACKSBERG
were standing by the water.
We were trying to go over our radios trying
to find out if there was another staging area near us. I don't know how much longer that we found out, but it was quite a bit longer, a couple of hours, and now it felt like a couple of minutes, but now I know it was probably an hour or two.
We found out that there was staging right at the Staten Island Ferry Terminal, which was half a block away.
Q. That i s half a mile away.
A. When we started walking, it felt like it was closer, you know. I was just happy to see other people, I guess.
Q. That's good.
A. When we were still at the water, at the park, we flagged down a fire chief. Actually ended up being an EMS chief. I don't know his name. I don't know.
Q. It's okay.
A. I wasn't really thinking about taking down names, and we just set up over there, and there was carts inside, inside the park, the vendors that sell the water, and food and everything. Everybody was just taking water, trying to wash out their eyes, wash out

DA VID BLACKSBERG
their throats.
Nobody could breathe. Everything was stuck
in their throats, and their eyes, mouths, faces and everything, so we were taking water, washing everybody as much as we could, because we didn't have any equipment, my partner and I, and there was no ambulance there, nothing, except for the command vehicle, and they didn't have much either. So we took whatever we could. A couple of boats started to show up, and we just put people on the boats, and everybody was worried about where they were going.
Q. You took injured people or --
A. Injured, noninjured, all civilians, but both injured and noninjured, both going onto the boats. Everybody was worried about where it was going.
They were going to Ellis Island, Jersey City and Staten Island. Those were the three places I remember the boats going. We were putting people on the boats. I told them it didn't matter where it was going. You'll always find a way home, and people were saying, "I just live a block away." I told them, "I guarantee you, you are not going to be allowed to go back in your apartment at least for a day, two days.
If you are lucky, it will be two days."

DA VID BLACKSBERG
Finally we started kicking everybody -- not really kicking them, but telling them, pushing them onto the boat and telling them to go. I told them they had no choice. There really was no choice for them. They had to go, so everybody was going on. I said, "Where do you live?" This is the closest one.
Brooklyn would be the closest. Staten Island would be the closest, or Jersey City, wherever they lived, just get on.
Finally, people started getting onto the boats, and we were actually trying to find another -- another EMS person, and I -- he worked for the Fire Department. We went and found a fire truck, took the
f i r e hose and a wrench, because we thought we had seen a hydrant, but there was none, because we were trying to get some water to wash the stuff down and try to clean up, but there was nothing there, and next thing you know, everybody was walking -- there was another -- somebody had gone back and got an ambulance, so at that time there was a fire chief, no lieutenants, and about six EMTs from the Fire Department, and we were pretty much doing everything down at the water over there.
Then we walked over - - once we found out - - once we got everybody onto the boats, cleared that

                 DAVID BLACKSBERG
whole section off with the pedestrians and civilians, we went over to the Staten Island Ferry Terminal. That's where we found out that a lot of people were going, and that was one of the main staging areas.
They started setting it up like a makeshift hospital there. People were coming down from the Trade Centers, being transported, and then we triaged them over there, and they were put onto the Staten Island Ferry and shipped over to Staten Island where I guess there was more EMTs over there.
Finally, there was really nothing much going on. People were coming in, but not steadily, and my partner and I felt useless. We were like, what are we doing here? There is nothing going on, nobody coming now. At that time there was nobody coming for maybe 20 minutes, it could have been longer. I lost track of time the whole day. The whole day felt like it was five minutes long.
We said there is nothing going on here. We made sure our names were on the list, because there was a lieutenant taking names on a list.
Q. EMS lieutenant?
A. EMS lieutenant at the Staten Island ferry, so I made sure our name was on the list. I wanted

DA VID BLACKSBERG
somebody to know that we were all right, you know, that were there. We started walking up and found out that we were -- that we saw some of the EMTs handing out masks to people that were still walking away.
There were s t i l l dust and clouds. Everything was in the air and like that for a couple of weeks. We started handing out masks. We were walking up handing out masks. It felt like we were doing something because we -- you know, we're just sitting in there doing nothing. We walked up and we ended up -- it was
a -- there was an ambulance from Midwood, and they were going -- they said that they were going to go up to ground zero.
At that time, we didn't know what it was called, but they were going to go up to the area, which is now ground zero. We said, "All right, can we hop aboard with you?" And he said, "Yes, absolutely."
We took the bus right up, took the ambulance up there, and we found out that staging was now at One Liberty, and Juan and another EMT ended up walking back. My partner Juan, he walked back. Rios walked back, and I stayed up there, because I knew Juan, and I knew the other guy that he was with, that also works at the station, they were walking back, so I knew that

DA VID BLACKSBERG
they would be a l l right. They were partners, and they saw me going with the lieutenant and other EMTs, so we had split up. My partner and I split up a lot, but we ended up finding each other somehow. At that time he walked back, and I stayed.
I had a radio. My partner lost his radio and his helmet, everything a t the same time, so it didn't matter, but I knew that --
Q. Fine.
A. I stayed up there, and I had a radio, and I was calling making sure everybody was a l l right. I had a cell phone on me, calling back and forth, and next thing you know we were on the rubble digging and getting fire, and PD and everybody else that was getting hurt. Meanwhile, some of us were hurting.
Q. And this point was it towards the end --
A. This was actually about -- I don't know. Maybe three o'clock in the afternoon. I had already gone into overtime for me. I ended up staying until the next morning. I stayed. It ended up being about 25 hours that I was there.
I tried to get a half-hour nap, but you can't, because you couldn't breathe. Anyway, we had some mess. They were like paper.

DA VID BLACKSBERG
Q. How did you ever get back to the station?
A. Well, I found another EMT, and in the morning when we just said that we were exhausted and ready to come back, he said, "You can walk to the Brooklyn Bridge and come back" and I said, "Well, I know that there i s a vehicle down a t the Staten Island Ferry, because that was mine." Somebody had moved it earlier in the day, and I had the key, so I said, "If we're lucky, the ambulance is still there. I know I still have my key on me."
He said, "All right, let's try it." We got down there, and the bus is still there, but there was all this soot and papers and everything still on the vehicle and inside. We were wearing or masks inside the vehicle. I was driving maybe three miles an hour, and everything i s blowing a l l over the place, and we finally made it back, and the next thing you know, I had lieutenants and everybody telling me I was missing for nine hours.
I called them. I spoke to them, but I guess in the chaos, nobody really knew where I was or what was going on, but I ended up making it back, and I ' m all right. We still felt like -- I mean, I still feel like I didn't do enough. I know I did a lot.

                 DAVID BLACKSBERG
Q. A catastrophe like that, I don't think anybody can actually feel they did enough, you know, so much going on, so, you know. You were there for 25 hours.
A. We were hands on the whole time. We were doing something, or we walked around or we were helping out whereever we could. We had those power bars that ended up making their way up. Next thing you know, I know people were having hot meals. I don't think I could have eaten at that time. I wasn't able to eat anyway for a long time.
Q. We want to thank for you your cooperation in this.
A. Thank you.
MR. DUN: The time is 6:18, and that's going
to be the end of interview.
File No. 9110135
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
              FRANK PASTOR
   Interview Date:  October 23, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          MR. DUN:  Today is October 23, 2001.  The
     time is 6:25 a.m. hours, and this is Richard Dun
     of New York City Fire Department, working with
     Marissa Abbriano.  We are conducting an interview
     with --
          MR. PASTOR:  FRANK PASTOR, EMT D, from
     Battalion 31.
     Q.   At this time, we would like to -- of the New
York City Fire Department.  At this time, we'd like you
to describe the events on September 11.
     A.   Okay.  September 11, that Monday morning, I
reported to work.  I came to the station, and let me
just say this, the lieutenants here still break my
chops, because that morning I came in, and I said to
them, "I think we are going to be busy today."  And
they said to me, "Why?"  I says, "Well, it's going to
be 9-11," and from thereon -- I remember our normal
routine in the morning, go get our breakfast, and we go
sit and we cover Red Hook, so we had the view of the
city.  We were sitting there, and we were looking at
the city.  All of is sudden my partner says to me,
"Frankie, that plane seems to be low."
     Q.   What unit were you working that day?
     A.   We were working 32 boy in Red Hook.  We had
FRANK PASTOR
3
the view of the city, and she yells out, "Frank, that
plane just hit the building."
Q. Who is she?
     A.   My partner is Mala, Mala Harilal, and I look
up, and I can't believe what I'm seeing.  I get on the
radio, and I said, "32 boy, if you need us, we're
available.  We can go right through the tunnel."  As
soon as I seen this, I got on the phone, and I dialed
the number to call my wife to let her know what's going
on.  We were standing there in awe.  We can't believe
what's going on, and she says -- and I remember my
partner, Mala, saying again to me, "That other plane is
low."  I don't know how much time, 10, 15 minutes, and
we seen the other plane hit.
     Q.   You're still in Brooklyn?
     A.   We were still in Brooklyn.  They haven't
called us.  Now they say, "32 boy you're going."  I
back up the vehicle.  We start heading towards the
tunnel.  We hit the tunnel.  In the tunnel, we're
stuck, and I can feel the tunnel vibrating.  I'm aware
it's already chaotic.
          We don't know why we are stuck in the middle,
but in front of me there is a big ESU truck.  I look
behind me.  There is an ESU truck behind me.  They are
FRANK PASTOR
4
blowing their horns.  We can't see nothing, but we were
in a standstill.  What's going on?  The problem is that
you have the three lanes coming out or going in, and
only one coming out.  They're stopping traffic so we
can get through.
          As soon as I get on the other side of the
west side -- I'm the driver.  I come out of the tunnel,
and I just see -- I told my partner, "I just saw
somebody's torso on the floor," and my partner said,
"No, you're kidding."  I says, "It's not a dog."  I
thought it was a dog, but I saw a torso with no arms
and no legs, just split open on the driver's side.
          I go through.  Guys are flying by.  Emergency
vehicles are flying by, so I see that -- I see which is
31 David's ambulance over towards the west side.  I
pull over, which I believe is going to be the first
staging area.  We didn't know at the time if it was or
not.
          I remember pulling over to the left.  I saw
that they're underneath this walkway, and I put the
ambulance -- I saw their ambulance underneath the
walkway, which at the time it seemed to be a good idea,
because there's debris, there's stuff falling.  I
remember seeing a computer coming out the window and
FRANK PASTOR
5
hitting the ground, breaking the windows.
          We don't know what's going on.  I pulled the
bus over behind them, and I look up, and I'm saying --
you got this gut feeling saying we don't belong here.
We're too close.
     Q.   The two buildings were still standing?
     A.   The two buildings are standing.  There's
flames coming everywhere, so I said, "You know what?"
I told my partner, Mala, "Let's get suited up," and we
gotta go.
     Q.   What do you mean suited up?
     A.   Get our equipment.
     Q.   Turnout coats?
     A.   Turnout coats, everything.  I remember
putting on my bulletproof -- I have the outer
carrier on the bulletproof vest.  I remember putting
that on, and I remember putting my helmet.
          I saw 31 David.  They're treating somebody in
that first area underneath the walkway.  There is stuff
hitting the overpass, and I run over to them.  I said,
"Guys, I'll be right back.  We're going to have to
move these vehicles.  We got to get out of here."
          I remember running back to where we think --
they're parked underneath this walkway here at this
FRANK PASTOR
6
time.
     Q.   Liberty Street walkway?
     A.   Liberty Street -- or no, I -- yeah, this one
here.  There's debris falling on it.  The windows are
shattering.  So I said, "I'll be right back.  I'm going
to go find a commanding officer, and we have to get out
of here."
          I remember seeing a lot of Hatzolah
ambulances.  There was a couple of EMS ambulances, a
lot of private ambulances gathered in that corner.  So
I turned around, and I ran over.  I remember seeing
Captain Frank D'Amato.  He was the one -- I said,
 "Captain, we have to get these vehicles out of here."
He's looking at me, and he says to me, "You're in
charge of taking all these vehicles and getting them
out of here."
          There had to be 10, 15 vehicles.  I says,
"Okay."  Now all the equipment is out.  Everybody has
all the equipment out.  Stretchers are out.  We have to
put everything back in.  What it seems to me eternity,
we moved the buses another half a block up.
          As we moved the buses up, I'm coming back.
He said, "And make sure everybody comes back with the
equipment.  We're going to start a staging area."
FRANK PASTOR
7
Seems to me that they're going to start detouring us
towards the building, going closer towards the World
Trade.
          It must have took us, I would say by the time
we moved the last vehicle, half an hour, 40 minutes,
would have seemed to me, pulling the vehicles down and
getting all the equipment.  That's when we hear, "It's
coming down.  It's coming down."  We didn't even have a
chance to turn around.
          The cloud is coming down, and we get buried.
I remember being in the dark on the floor.  I remember
getting on my Nextel, calling my wife back, telling her
I'm okay.  "I can't see.  I can't see my hand in front
of my face, but I'm okay."
          We must have been in the debris -- it didn't
clear for about half an hour, 45 minutes.  I remember
running into Battery Park in the -- everybody is
running, people falling.  I remember falling down.  I
remember I lost my helmet.  I didn't know where I was.
          I remember running into a lobby in the
financial district somewhere.  I was the only EMS
personnel in there with a bunch of women and children
crying, and people saying to me, "Help me, help me.  We
can't breathe."  I had no equipment.  All I had was my
FRANK PASTOR
8
pouch.  I remember I had a bottle of water with me, and
I had it in my pocket, and I remember doing this
clearing my face, people are coming up to me in the
lobby, saying, "Help me, help me.  I can't breathe.  I
can't breathe."  I'm looking around to see what I can
do.
          I remember opening up this door.  There was a
slop sink.  There was clothes hanging.  I took the
clothes, and I started soaking the clothes, wetting
them, started cutting out strips, giving it to kids,
giving it to the mothers.  I must have ripped
everybody's clothes that was hanging from people that
work for the maintenance department.  I remember being
those gray shirts, those uniforms, cutting them all
up.  I found a watering -- a plant.  What do you call
those?
     Q.   Watering can.
     A.   People were coming to me, dousing everybody.
I'm taking control of the bathroom, because it's
chaotic.  I can't let nobody in there because it's
going to be -- they are fighting for water.  They're
lining up for me.  I'm cleaning them off, giving them
rags, cleaning them off.
          I'm looking at the door.  You can't fit
FRANK PASTOR
9
nobody more in the lobby.  There had to be 500, 600
people in the lobby.
     Q.   What lobby are you talking about?
     A.   I remember running.  I'm in here, so we
were -- at first we were here.  I moved the buses down
the block here.  When we moved the buses further down
in here somewhere --
     Q.   Gateway Plaza?
     A.   Yeah.  These guys were here at one time.
Then we moved them here.  Then we finally got them all
down like another block and a half away.  This is, I
think, Albany Street and South End.
     Q.   South End Avenue and Albany.
     A.   Okay, somewhere in here, and the reason I
know that because I've gone back to ground zero a
couple of times and I remember saying this is where I
ran.  This is where I remember running.
          In here somewhere I remember going into a
lobby.  That's where we started soaking the people up
and giving them stuff.  I must have been in the lobby
half an hour.  Everything seems to me like half an
hour, an hour.  I remember people gathering around me
because the radio is still on, and that's the way they
can hear communications.  Safety, I guess.
FRANK PASTOR
10
          They were all gathering.  I said let me lower
this, and I have to try to get out of here.  As I tried
to get out, they were blocking the door and said, "You
can't leave us."  I finally managed to go back out, and
I'm walking back towards the green.  Everybody is
coming.  I don't see no EMS personnel still.
     Q.   Did you see fire personnel?
     A.   When we started going, I lost my partner.  I
remember running into three fire zebra, a unit, and
they had Scott packs.  The HAZ-TAC unit, and I know the
guys.  I remember seeing Joe, and I seen Eric, and I
said to Joe, "Joe, give me some --"  He gave me some
oxygen.  I was covered completely.
          I remembered taking my helmet off and putting
the flaps down when I was running, but I remember stuff
hitting me, but then I lost my helmet, so now I got my
head full of plaster, after doing all this.  I remember
running into the guys.  They gave me oxygen, and as I'm
walking back, I see on the floor stumbling Chief
Grant.  He's got a non-rebreather on, no O-2, no
nothing.  He's just stumbling on the floor, and I grab
him, and I pick him up, and he says to me, "What do I
tell these people?"
          People are still running.  The flames are
FRANK PASTOR
11
still coming around that bend.  When you walked down
Battery Park, there seems to be a bend.  It seems to be
like when you're going to walk back towards the World
Trade Center.  He said, "Keep them going.  Keep them
going.  Keep them walking," but it seems to me we were
walking back towards the area.
          I remember telling him we can't go that way.
He says, "What do you mean?  What do I tell these
people?"  I says, "We're going to have to stay here."
We were in a grassy area.  I remember being on the
grass, and I look over, and I thought it was an
ambulance.
          I lost my footing, but it's a fire boat with
the lights on coming, and these Liberty shuttle,
whatever you want to call it.
     Q.   The ferries.
     A.   The ferries.  They are yelling out, "I can
take 75.  I can take 200."  That's when we started
putting the people on the boat.
          I lost Chief Grant.  I lost his aide.  I lost
my partner.  These guys, I don't know where they were.
I walked back towards -- when I'm walking back towards
the building, that's when I ran into more EMS
personnel.
12
     A.   Well, we didn't know it was two.  We didn't
know that both of them came down.  We remember hearing
the rumble, and it seemed like it was a continuous
rumble, so we didn't know if it was one, or two or
three.  We didn't know.
          We found out that it was both after when we
walked back towards the area that we didn't see nothing
standing, just the mountain of dust and debris.
          Just walking back towards the area, now you
start seeing personnel.  I remember seeing people
coming back with water, EMS equipment, and that's when
we just got together and started walking towards the
ferry, and that's where we spent the whole day.
          That's pretty much the whole story.
          MR. DUN:  I want to thank you for your
     interview, Frank, and your cooperation.
          At this time, the time is 637 hours, and this
     ends the interview with Frank.
FRANK PASTOR
Q.   This is after both buildings came down.

File No. 9110136
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW BRIAM SMITH
Interview Date: October 23, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick

BRIAM SMITH
MR. DUN: Today i s October 23, 2001. The time is 813 hours.
I am Richard Dun, New York City Fire Department, working with Marisa Abbriano, also New York City Fire Department. We are conducting an interview with --
MR. SMITH: BRIAM SMITH, EMT, 5480.
Q. Brian, can you describe the events or things
that happened on September ll?
A. Yes. Tell you the story now?
Q. Right.
A. You want me to follow this thing?
Q. You know, just go through it, and if you
remember things, you know.
A. Initially, we -- like I said it before, we
had gotten off of duty at quarter of nine. I was going out to my vehicle to drive home, and we -- my partner and I saw the -- right after the first tower had been hit, and so we came back inside, and we told them. It hadn't even gone over the radios yet, because initially he didn't -- he thought that we just --
Q. So you actually saw the first plane go in?
A. I heard the explosion and looked up, and then I saw it start to billow out.

BRIAM SMITH
So I came back inside, and I told my lieutenant, Lieutenant McCarthy - - he was the desk lieutenant - - and I told him I was going to go inside and get changed, put my uniform back on, because I was in my civilian clothes, and that we needed an extra unit, and we need to go back out, and, like I said, he initially didn't believe us, but then a couple of seconds later they came over the air with the announcement, you know, "Units, an MCI has been announced the Borough of Manhattan," so on and so forth.
So I went inside. I got changed into my uniform real quick, very quickly and very sloppily, I might add, but we went back into the office. I grabbed keys. My partner was outside. He was checking the back of the ambulance, because he was going to be teching, he's not evoced, so he was in the back, and he was going through all the stuff to make sure that we had what we needed just to get out on the road. Went in and logged on the computer right away.
Before I left, my lieutenant told me that we were going to be 31 Mary, and if they needed us, they'd call us, so we got on. I logged on right away and told them that we were the next unit available if they

BRIAM SMITH
needed us, and they told us to proceed to the MCI in Manhattan.
So we left the parking lot, and we started going over the Brooklyn Bridge, and we made it down that -- it was heavy traffic, but normal Tuesday morning traffic, but right by the foot of the bridge,
it was pretty congested, but with vehicle traffic. I guess because they -- the police had shut down a l l the vehicle traffic going over -- to allow pedestrian traffic there, I guess going over the bridge, so everybody was bottled up, but I was able to drive up on the sidewalk a little bit and make my way to the
bridge, and they just waved us right through, so we were going over the bridge, and when we were -- when we initially left out of the station, central gave us a cross street to stage. They gave us a spot where they said they were going to have EMS staging, but again, like I said earlier, I'm not very familiar with lower Manhattan. I don't know the street names or, you know, i t ' s not like upper Manhattan where there are numbers, and that's easy. It's a little tougher down on the low side if you don't really know your way around.
So my partner was trying to look at the Hagstrom's and trying to figure out, you know, where we

BRIAM SMITH
were going, and, like I said, going over the bridge there was no other traffic besides us, and the both of us were, like, looking out enroute to the alarm. We see the -- at this point only the one tower was hit,
and there was a l l kinds of stuff coming out of it. Looks like paper, and i t ' s smoking, and we were going over the bridge, and again, like I said, my partner, he couldn't -- we couldn't figure out exactly where we had to go once we got off the bridge, so there was an unmarked police car coming up behind us. He had the light going, and I said, you know, just follow this
guy. He's got to be heading to the same place.
So we -- so I said all right I'll just follow him in. I followed him in. I got off the bridge. We circled around, and we started heading in this direction, I guess west. I don't know what street we ended up on, because I don't really know where it drops you off when you get off the bridge, but all I know we ended up somewhere down, like, I guess, in this vicinity because where we initially stopped when we were heading south, you could see down here.
I mean, it was -- you know, there must have been a crossing somewhere, because you could see there is, like, a foot bridge or something somewhere around

BRIAM SMITH
here, and you could see the tower. No, it was right here. I think it was Cortlandt or one of these streets. I don't really know.
So we had stopped because you could tell once you got close there was thousands of people in the street, you know, like they were everywhere.
Again, I mean, all we wanted to do was find out where we had to be staged and where they were going to set up the EMS staging, and we got flagged by a Metrocare unit, and they said that, yeah, some guy's having a heart attack. He had like a self-defibrillator, and it's, like, you know, it had defibrillated him six times, and I guess they thought that we were an ALS unit, because I told them - - I said, "Listen, we are just another BLS unit. You know, we can't do anything more than you guys can. We can't tie up two ambulances and four EMTs with one guy having a heart attack. I mean, you know, who the heck knows what the heck is going on over there."
While all this is going on - - and again, I only know this because of how many times I kind of replayed it and trying to fit everything into the time of events.
The second plane has to hit either as we are

BRIAM SMITH
getting off the Brooklyn Bridge or just as we are meeting that throng of people, because by the time that we get down to Liberty Street, the second tower is already hit, and, like I said, going over the bridge, only the one tower was hit. So, I mean, it must have happened in just, you know, that minute or so that we made our way over t o Manhattan.
Like I said, there were a lot of people, and we could see the trade center. Again, like I say, I'm kind of confused by the whole layout. As many times as I look at this map -- this is actually one of the best maps that I've seen so far, but we start making our way down, and we ended up a couple of blocks away from the trade center when there was -- like, it looked, like a court building or something on the right-hand side as you are going down Liberty, and because there's steps going up, and there was some police there, and there was a fire truck.
Q. Maybe that was Liberty Plaza.
A. It might have been. I don't know.
Q. Liberty Plaza i s right here.
A. That might have been it. Do you know if
there were steps over here?
Q. Yeah, there's steps. Black marblite, a dark

BRIAM SMITH
color building?
A. Yeah. I think that's it. Might have been
this.
Q. So you were on Liberty and Church, Trinity? A. Liberty and Trinity.
Q. Which turns into Church.
A. Right. So we are -- like I said, I'm kind of
guessing, but we were basically, like, right here, and there is a -- I think it was a sergeant or a lieutenant, I don't recall, but he was directing some kind of traffic. I think he had a helmet on, but I stopped, and we asked him. I said, "You know, sergeant, do you know where they are setting up staging?" And he tried calling on the radio, and he tried, and it was so much radio traffic at that point.
Like I said, it was bedlam, you know, a t that point. It was just, you know, crazy. Nobody really had a clear sense of what the heck was going on. In fact, when we were going over the bridge we were hearing reports on the radio that after the first tower had been hit, we heard that it was a plane that hit
it. We heard that two planes hit at the same time. We didn't know i f a bomb went off. We didn't know exactly what was going on. It wasn't like you could see a wing

BRIAM SMITH
sticking out of the building. You know, it wasn't anything obvious.
So we went to -- we were there, and the guy said to us -- he said "Listen, I don't know where they are setting up staging, but I haven't seen any ambulances down this way, and I know that there is -- that they have some people that are hurt at the 10-10 house," and he said, "No ambulances or anything down there, so, you know, maybe you could do something over there."
So I said, "All right, we'll go down there." So we went down. We went up to the 10-10 house. As soon as we got there, we backed in the engine bay, like you guys have seen where it is, so if you are looking at the front of the building it's the engine bay on the left, and there was a captain there, one of the fire captains. He wasn't in turnout, but I said to him, "Cap, listen, you know --" because, like, he was captain a t the house there. I don't know i f he was from Ladder 10 or from Engine 10, but we backed it in, and the guy said, "Yeah, we got a bunch of people injured in here, seven or eight people, some of them hurt pretty bad. If you guys want to grab a couple of people and run."

BRIAM SMITH
I said, "All right. Let me get out a take a look," and the guy said, "Just make sure you back it all the way in, because there was a lot of debris, and there is a lot of stuff going over the building."
Like I said, by this point, Two World Trade Center is on fire. You know, like you can look all the ways up to the top, you know, I mean, there's quite a
b i t of damage up there. Like I said, the second plane had already hit it.
Q. People jumping at that point?
A. Not when I first got out of the ambulance. They were plenty of jumpers to come, but not at that point. If there had been, you know, like I said, I didn't notice.
Q. Was there a lot of debris when you were pulling up into the firehouse?
A. Y es.
Q. You saw a lot of debris?
A. A lot of debris on the street. All the ways
over here.
Q. All the way up to Church?
A. Yeah. I mean, I wasn't crazy. It wasn't
like I had -- I mean, I could drive through it, but, I mean, I had, you know, to kind of go around a couple of

BRIAM SMITH
bigger pieces of debris.
So we backed into the firehouse, and we got
out, you know, after a quick assessment of how many patients were in there. I kind of guesstimated by how much time had passed from the initial incident. I mean, again, like I said, coming over, only because I'm not really familiar with the way the things are set up, I thought that this tower right here is the tower that I saw burning on the way in. I don't know that it's this tower burning, because when you look at the bottom and you look up, it's tough to get a sense of where it is in proportion to the top of the tower.
So I figure maybe 20 minutes went by, 15 minutes. Like I said, it's kind of hard to tell, because time is kind of like - - it was like in slow motion, but we got out. I got a quick assessment of the amount of patients in there, you know, immediately, and, like I said, some of them were pretty bad, so I said to the captain - - I said, "Cap, listen. I haven't seen any ambulances over here either, and what we are going to do is, being that everyone is going to be
familiar with the firehouse over here, you know, we are just - - we will take this station over, and we are going to - - my partner and I are going the set the

BRIAM SMITH
station up as a triage station, and I'm going to radio out to dispatch, and we'll let them know what we are doing, but I need a few guys to give us a hand," and the guy's - - you know, he was, like, whatever you need, you just let us know. We will do whatever we got to do. And I said - - I asked him if he had anybody there that was medically trained. I figured there was an engine company there that maybe they have some CFR guys. He said, "I don't have anybody, no CFR, nothing." He's like, you know, whatever you got, you got.
There was a volunteer firefighter from Commack on Long Island. He worked in the trade
center. He came over, and he's, like, you know, trying to offer his services, I guess, and, you know, so the captain gave this guy to us to help out. He said the saying thing, like he wasn't medical or anything. Like he knew CPR or something. So I don't know what his last name is. I just know his name was Rob, but - -
So I said to the captain - - I said, "All right, listen. Again, we are going to take the station over in the name of EMS" and I don't recall how I told him we were going to commandeer the station, but like I said, he was pretty willing to go with it.

BRIAM SMITH
SoIsaidtohim -- Isaid,"Ineedevery chair in the station, you know, whether kitchen chairs, chairs like this, you know, chairs in someone's office, rolling chairs. You name it. I need every single
one. I need it set up behind the ambulance. I need it to look like a movie theatre. It's got to be nice and neat, because that's for the walking wounded as they start to make their way into the firehouse."
I said, "I also need every pillow, every blanket and any of the mattresses that you can get from any of the bunks upstairs. No metal frames or nothing, just mattress, and we are going to take the entire other side of the engine bay and just lay them on the ground. It's got to be nice and neat, and that was where we were going to start putting unstable patients and our critical patients."
My partner and I are going to start MCIing these people. We are going to start triaging them. So we did. Like I said, some of the patients were - - some of them were, you know, hurt not too bad. I mean, you know, like, injuries that were significant, but nothing life-threatening. Some bad lacerations, some - -
Q. Walking wounded.
A. Yeah, walking wounded kind of stuff. There

BRIAM SMITH
were some that were worse. There was one lady who was burnt up pretty bad. She had her shoulder -- all the skin off her shoulder was burnt off. Parts of her arm, her leg, her hair was a l l burnt, and I remember her fingers were burnt also, and, like, when they swell up when you get burnt real bad.
In fact, the guy, Rob, I said to him -- I had to show him how to use a ring cutter, because I had to cut the woman's rings off because they were swelled up so badly, and she was, like, in shock, you know. She was just sitting here like this while we were cutting the rings off, and I know it had to hurt, but she didn't -- she looked like she didn't feel a thing, and the plasma was just, like, dripping just off her
finger, you know. It was -- she was burnt pretty
good.
So we dressed her wounds, me and this guy Rob. My partner -- there was an Oriental guy. His name was Fu, and this guy had a broken hip, at the very least a dislocated hip. He had a pretty significant hip injury.
Q. Were there a lot of people coming into the firehouse looking for help?
A. Yeah, there were a lot of civilians. There

BRIAM SMITH
were a lot of civilians that was still just kind of near the front of the firehouse that weren't triaged yet. Like I said, we - - I mean, between the two of us we must have maybe got six, seven, eight triage tags written out, and, you know, the MCI tags, and put on people. I mean, name, injury, and then we rated them, pulled the tag off at the bottom.
So we went to - - while we were doing that, like I said, this guy, the Oriental guy with the broken hip, I showed my partner real quick how to immobilize it with a KED, so he immobilized - - he started to immobilize the fracture with a fireman. The other
fireman setting Q.
set up the chairs behind the ambulance, started up the blankets and everything else.
At this time, the buildings were still
standing?
A. Yeah, they were still standing, and it's a
shame. If the buildings didn't come down, you know, I know that some, you know, some EMS captain or chief would have walked by and said, damn, this is a nice triage station. I mean, it was looking pretty sharp.
So to answer, I guess, next question. That's where we parked our apparatus, and we didn't really get too much in the way of civilian reports, but, like I

BRIAM SMITH
said, I spoke initially to that captain. He gave us some firefighters to work with. He was sending guys outside, and a t this point i s when I started seeing jumpers, because the civilians that were s t i l l out by the front were screaming, "Oh, my God, my God," and then I walked out to the front of the firehouse, and then they were just, you know, hit, you know, just coming off the building, and, you know, hitting the ground maybe 20 feet away, whatever it was.
So I said all right. I got to go back inside, and I told the captain also to let any of the firemen know, because they were a l l up and down the street. They were everywhere, and I said to him, "Cap, listen, just tell your men, tell anybody else that walks past the firehouse that the 10-10 house is being set up as a triage station. This way, if they run in to any civilians out on the street, they can direct them this way. We can at least triage them real quick and then, you know, once they start rolling ambulances and stuff, we can start getting people taken care of."
So they started letting everybody out on the street know that the 10-10 house was going to be set up as triage, and we -- and shortly thereafter, there were a couple of firefighters that came into the station,

BRIAM SMITH
and they said that there was a brother that was hurt out on the street pretty bad. He had been hit in the head with a piece of falling debris, and that he was -- you know, that he was in bad shape, and they -- initially the guys weren't -- like, I guess, word of mouth was just getting around, and they didn't know where he was, so that the captain was like, all right, let's figure out where we are going to send you guys, and once they -- once we had a general vicinity, they just kept pointing down Liberty, like down in this direction.
Q. To the west?
A. Yeah, to the west. That captain said, "All right, you know --" again, we were just trying to get a sense of where it was. So I grabbed two firefighters. There was a Stokes basket laying on the ground. I
said, "Guys, grab the Stokes. Come with me."
I grabbed my tech bag, told my partner that I was going out to go get this guy and initially, like my partner, he got kind of frantic. He was like, you
you, I ' m not leaving you, but I sit tight. I got to go out, and is somebody out there. I'm going
know, I ' m not leaving
said, "You know, just
I got to see if there
to bring him right back in. Don't worry about it.

BRIAM SMITH
I'll be all right."
So I went out and I started heading down west
on Liberty, and again, don't know anything as anything else.
Q. Did you ever were doing this at the
like I said to this point, I far as, you know, plane or
try communicating to CB that you
A. them that you know, you know,
I called them up, and, I mean, I didn't tell I was going on the street, but I told them,
I told my partner that I was heading out and, I let them know we were setting up the triage
10-lo?
A. Yeah, yeah, central dispatcher, yeah.
Q. You notified them?
A. Sure, sure. I let them know pretty much every step of the way.
Q. Okay.
station at the 10-10 house.
So we - - I started heading down West on
Liberty with two firefighters, and again people were - - people were still, you know, leaping out of the building 20 feet away, whatever it was, and they were
- - you know, you had to walk like this, because they were landing so close, and there was still a lot of stuff falling from the building. There was a lot of

BRIAM SMITH
debris on the street, but, again, like the whole point I don't really see any -- there is not a big wing or anything hanging out. For a l l I know, someone, you know, hid a bomb on the 80th Floor, blew it up, and, you know, I ' m just seeing the remnants of everything that's going on. We don't have any specifics.
Q. You don't have to follow that. Just keep going.
A. Okay. So we started heading down trying to find this guy, and, again, like I said, there was firefighters all over the street, there were guys everywhere, and the first indication that I had that it was a plane crash, I remember -- because I'm color blind so it's hard for me to distinguish different colors, especially when everything i s gray, because it had -- really had kind of a gray look to it, because of all the dust, you know, but there was like a bank or something here, and there's like a fountain, I guess, right in front of the bank.
I'm trying to remember everything in that 20 seconds I ' m going past it, but I remember there was life jackets everywhere, the yellow in-flight life jackets, and that the contrast of the yellow against all the gray, you know. It stood out. It was easy for

BRIAM SMITH
me to pick it out, and I remember thinking as I saw that, you know, I guess it must have been a plane crash, because where the hell else would you get a bunch of yellow l i f e jackets i n the middle of Manhattan, you know.
So, yeah, and I looked on the ground to see
if there was anything around, and I didn't see
anything, so I thought, you know, maybe it was an empty plane, who knows, but we started going a l i t t l e further down. Like I said, it was a long walk before we started getting to where this guy was. I've been down there since, because I went down there on one of the family trips the Fire Department had, and I tried, you know -- they got that platform up there?
Q. Yes.
A. I tried to see from there to where the 10-10 house is, and I'm trying to figure out how far down I went, because, like I said, I tried --
Q. Did you go into the Westside Highway?
A. No, no, no.
Q. That's a big multiple highway, so --
A. Okay. No, no, no. I definitely never left
Liberty Street. I just don't know how far.
Q. You went down a block or two maybe.

BRIAM SMITH
A. I went down maybe a couple of blocks, and I remember that you have to kind of cut back a little bit. You have to cut back a little bit, and because there was a lieutenant on the street. I asked him where this guy was, and he said that, "He's, you know, down that way aways, but, you know, stay under the awnings. There's a lot of stuff coming down."
And then I started walking, and I slipped, and I looked to see what I slipped on, and it was this guy's head. It was like a mush head, you know. It wasn't solid like a head, you know. I guess it was from the explosion or whatever. It was like a mush head. I could still see it was someone's head, and at that point, I took - - I tried to take note at what basically was on the ground around me, and then
that's - - there was a lot of body parts there at that point. I mean, it was - - I mean, it literally carpeted the sidewalk. You couldn't tip toe through it like a mine field or nothing like that. You couldn't, like, you know, like you are dodging dog crap or something.
I mean, it was - - basically just it was everywhere, you know, and I remember I - - again, I took a couple of seconds to take notice of what exactly it was I was looking at, and some of it you could tell what it was

BRIAM SMITH
you know, some of it was identifiable and some of it, you knew it was from a person. You didn't know what the heck it was. I mean, I seen a lot of dead in MVAs, dismemberments and stuff, but some of it was just, you know, I just had no idea. I mean, just from the explosion and from the fall and everything else, it kind of, you know, turns people to mush.
I don't know if you - - you need to know about the details of the bodies and stuff right?
Q. So did you ever get to the firefighter that was hurt or not?
A. When I started get to go that stuff, I saw down where the guy was. They pointed down to him maybe a hundred feet away. He was - - four firefighters picked him up on a long board. I mean, you could see his head. His head was, you know, was in bad shape. I don't know if this guy lived or whatever, but from where I was standing, from my perspective it didn't look too good for him, but he started running down the other way. He was heading down towards the Westside Highway on Liberty.
So at that point I said to these two guys - -
I said, "Listen, I don't know where he's going, if they have something set up down there, but let's get the

BRIAM SMITH
hell back inside the firehouse." I said, "There's just too much shit falling down. We are going to get - - we don't want to get killed out here."
So we started making our way back to Liberty, back to the 10-10 house down Liberty. We stopped at this corner because there were two concession stands. You know, the little carts that got the donuts and stuff in it, coffee trucks?
There were two there, and I said to these guys, I said, "Hey, listen. I want to get out all the liquid stuff, all the water, the juice, ice tea and all that. I want to set up a rehab station inside the firehouse also, and this way we will have it set up for the firefighters that are going to be working there."
I mine, when I was setting up this thing in the 10-10 house, I was expecting to be there like for 24 hours. I was anticipating setting something up for a long-term operation, and, you know, I certainly had no idea that all those plans would be spoiled shortly thereafter, but - - and the thing is, like, with city firemen, these guys are funny, because it's like they have, like, two main things, you know. One thing is they just love to get like an order, like, you know, they just need like someone to tell them do this, do

BRIAM SMITH
that, and so after I said this, they -- like one of the other favorite things they love to do is break stuff, and they -- both these guys put their hands on the
cart, and they are, like, let's knock it over.
I said "Hey, guys, whoa. There's enough stuff destroyed out here." There was a lock about that big on it, you know. Don't you have bolt cutters or something in the firehouse? They were, like, yeah. I said,"Let's go get the bolt cutters," I said. You
know, I don't want to break anything more than is already broken out here. Let's, you know, let's just, you know, relax, try to be a little calm about this.
So we went back in the firehouse, saw my partner. You know, he said, "You know, how bad is it? Is it bad out there?" I said, "Yeah,, i t ' s pretty
bad." From the time that I saw the first jumper to that point, there was like six, seven jumpers, plus all the stuff.
Q. Your partner's name?
A. Brian Gordon. You want his shield?
Q. Y eah.
A. Shield No. 5548. I know what it is, but -- Q. We just got a name to clarify that.
A. Brian Gordon.

BRIAM SMITH
So these guys grabbed the bolt cutters, and we ran back out to the concession stand, and it was the concession stand on the west side of Greenwich, I guess. It was right here. Like this is where the 10-10 house is, because it was on - - there was like a street, because the 10-10 house is, like, on the corner, whatever it is, so I went back out there, cut the lock off the cart, opened up the door, and there was some milk crates in with butter and milk and stuff, and I threw out the milk and the butter, and filled it up with ice teas, Snapples and waters and stuff, gave it to the one guy that was with me and I said, "You know, take this into the firehouse. Put it against the wall. I'll set it up when I get in there."
So that guy split, and I started doing the other one, the same thing, emptied it out, and started putting some stuff in there, and I heard this sound, and, you know, it wasn't until - - it wasn't until I saw the news, it wasn't until I'm able to replay events and where I was and what exactly was happening, because, like I said, as far as I know, there is only one plane that's hit at this point. I mean, it sounded like a plane coming in. It sounded like a jet engine getting ready to land on my head, you know, and I remember I

BRIAM SMITH
started to hear it.
I looked at the guy, and I said, you know,
like, run, and we started hauling, and we started running down towards the 10-10 house. There was guys a l l over the street, a l l these guys. These guys were history, because --
Q. Civilians you are talking about?
A. No, firefighters. There weren't all that many civilians. I mean, they were out there, but when we started running into the 10-10 house, I mean, from the time that I hear that first sound, to the time that the eventual concussion hits me, it couldn't have been more than four seconds, but, like, as I go through
this, i t ' s like slow motion, you know, like everything got slowed down.
And so we started running, and the
firefighter was ahead of me. I don't know if he was from Engine 10 or Ladder 10. He was from one of the 10 companies, because he had it on his helmet, and when we
-- by the time we got into the engine bays, they were completely clear. There was nobody in there. They all ran to the back of the building, like the kitchen area in there.
The only guy that was still in there was the

BRIAM SMITH
Oriental guy Fu, because he couldn't get up and walk, and this poor bastard was crawling his way to the back of the building, like an animal that gets his hind quarters run over, you know. It was horrible, and I remember the firefighter was running, and he ran past him, and I remember I thought to myself - - I said, oh, man, you know, now I'm going to have to stop and try to grab this guy, and as the sound is coming, getting louder and louder, you know, it really feels like it's about to fly in the front door of the of the fire house.
Q. Talking about the second plane crashing?
A. Not the second plane crashing. This is the building coming down.
Q. Okay.
A. To me, it's That's what it sounds Q. That is why
the second plane crashing. like.
I wanted to clarify that.
A. Yeah. Again, like I said, I only know this because at the time I'm watching on the news and everything, afterwards. From where I was, you couldn't
(inaudible) so we started running.
I stopped. I picked up Fu. I grabbed him by
the KED that we had on his waist and his hip, grabbed

BRIAM SMITH
his shirt, and I started to drag him and looked behind me, and then it was just like "bam," and it came so
fast. It was like a bomb went off, you know, and it just hit me so suddenly, you know, and it picked me up, picked me right up off my feet and threw me a good 30 feet through the air, because now you can imagine where the ambulance is. I'm on the other end of the bay
side. Ain't nothing blocking the -- you know, between the street and me, and it just hit me and sent me flying and sent me closer to where the gear racks
were. They moved them since, because I've been down there, but the gear racks were set up on the left-hand side behind where I set up all the chairs.
It sent me past that part, and I got to the back of the gear racks and hit down face first, and then I felt the rush of everything coming behind me. I felt things coming by, hitting me, and it was just a sound, like whoosh, and I liken it to being hit by a wave on the beach, you know, because that's kind of what it felt like. I mean, the stuff was so heavy I thought I was being buried.
I thought I was going to -- it felt like people were just dumping, you know, dirt like it was shooting at me, you know. It was so thick and heavy,

BRIAM SMITH
and at that instant, I really felt like I was going to be buried, like that's how I was going to meet it, you know, and I took a breath, and then the blast came, and then there was -- you know, like I said, that wave of crap and everything else that hit us, and then I opened my eyes, and I couldn't see anything. It was just black. I mean, black as you can imagine. I mean, you can't close your eyes and get that black.
And I stood up, and I thought to myself I have to -- I said I can't take another breath. You know, the next breath is it, you know, and it was just, like, kind of like a quick silence right after it happened, and I'm a volunteer firefighter out on the Island for seven years, and, you know, like, firefighters stuff started kicking in, and I thought to myself I got to get a Scott pack, you know, I got to get one, because I can't breathe. If I breathe, I'm going to die. I had one breath. I could hold it for you know, a good 30 seconds or so, and I got to find air.
First thing I thought was, okay, I'm going to go out to my unit, because I work for a Haz-Tac unit.
It has two packs on it. I run out to grab a pack, and I said, oh, I'm on an extra unit. So I'm in a

BRIAM SMITH
firehouse. There's fire trucks here, and at that instant, I pulled my shirt up over my face, and I got ready to take my next breath, and I remember as I was doing it I thought to myself, you know, this is going to be the last one, you know.
So I was breathing in, and my entire inside of my mouth, my nose, my throat, anything that was wet inside down the whole way down was instantly dirt, you know, like I was hacking and coughing, and it was horrible.
So I tried to make my way towards where the back of the firehouse was. People at this point started screaming. People were trying to push past each other. You couldn't see anything, but you could feel people, like, grabbing on to you and trying to push you out of the way, and I found there was -- I think it was a Port Authority cop. He had a white shirt on. He had a white shirt on, and he looked like he was walking with a purpose, so I figured I think I'll follow this guy, because I was -- you know, kept saying, "Does anybody know where the exit i s to this building?" Because I thought maybe all that crap was just in the firehouse. Little did I know that the back of the building i s blown out, and the street i s right

BRIAM SMITH
behind it, and, you know, i t ' s just as dark out there, but, I mean, when you can't see your hand in front of your face, you don't know what's going on, you know, and, you know, just survival stuff is kicking in, you know, and I remember-I followed this guy into like a corner of the kitchen, and he turned around, and, I ' m like, what are you doing? He said, "I don't know. I ' m trying to find a way out."
You know, I -- I remember thinking a lot of things, you know, and I thought to myself, my hopes got kind of dashed. I thought maybe I was, you know, heading, you know, to a final way out, and I pictured it was like -- I felt like I was on the Discovery Channel, you know and they show stuff, like, the
c o n c e n L r a ~ i o ncamps
That was when I was picturing. The people are screaming, and there's complete chaos. You can't see anything. You can't breathe, and I didn't know how

BRIAM SMITH
many more -- I mean, I know I couldn't keep breathing this crap, but eventually it starts to calm down a little bit.
My partner was -- I heard my partner screaming my name, and I grabbed him, and he was just
-- you know, he was beside himself. He was pretty upset. I said, "It's all right, Brian." I said, you know, "We are here, let's try to figure out what's going on. Let's try to relax a little bit," and actually he said -- we got separated again, because he went out towards the engine bay again, and I ' m i n the kitchen, and I tried walking back out to the engine base, and I heard on my radio, because I think we already switched to Brooklyn North again, because initially we were on citywide. You couldn't get on the Citywide frequency to your save your life, so congested going over the bridge. It was nuts.
So I remember hearing him screaming on the radio, you know, 31 Mary, 31 Mary, just, you know, yelling a Mayday, saying that we were trapped in a building, you know, that it was -- you know, there was rubble. We couldn't breathe. We were injured. We took heavy casualties. You know, that basically we were taking a pretty solid beating, and then when I saw

BRIAM SMITH
him again, I was getting ready to radio. He said, "I already called them." I said, "Yeah, I know." I said,
"You can't give these guys a message like that." I said, you knowlwWewill have to figure out what we can figure out here, but, you know, you're screaming like that, somebody else is going to come running in here trying to get us out, and they are going to get killed out there, too. Let's just let everybody try to figure out where they're at right now. Let's take it, you know -- try to think this through."
So I pretty much relayed the same message,
but in a -- you know, in a much calmer fashion, you know, for the sake of everybody else that was out
there, and there were people that were screaming. Like I said, the dust was starting to settle a bit. You could see. I mean, not all that well, but there were a lot of people that got hurt, that got broken legs, and a firefighter that just -- he got a tibia fracture.
A lot of people (inaudible.) So I grabbed my partner, and I walked to -- you know, we were in, like, the engine bay area, and I said to him, "Brian, listen, before we do anything else, we got to kind of figure out whatever -- I need to know where you are at, we are on the same page here, you know."

BRIAM SMITH
I said to him -- I said, "Basically this point we have two options. Option No. 1 i s there w i l l be -- salvage whatever we can out of the ambulance, because at this point it was in bad shape, but I mean, there was s t i l l some stuff that could have been taken out, so we can salvage it, pick our way through the rubble, try and find our way out of here and just run to Brooklyn and don't stop until we hit the water, maybe swim back to the battalion. Whatever it takes, we got to get the hell out of here.
I remember it was pretty funny, because I remember he looked at me, and he said to me -- he says,
"There is only one option. We are getting the hell out of here. I'm not dying with these people here." He's, like, we are going to get killed. I said, "Well, let's -- let me just go through Option No. 2 before I make a decision."
Option No. 2 is that we stay, that we treat every patient that we have, because there i s no EMS. There i s nobody here. I said, "You know, i f there i s anybody that was out in the street, those guys got wiped out." I said, "There is nobody else here to help them." I said, "I can't, you know, in good conscience leave these people." I said, "I'm staying, and, you

BRIAM SMITH
know --" I said, "I can't leave anybody behind," and he said, "All right, I'm with you," and he's like, I'm not leaving your side.
I said, "All right. Now that we have a plan, let's go implement it." We went inside, and we splinted the guy's leg. We got him -- he was on an long board. Like I said, things started to settle a little bit. There were firefighters inside and outside the firehouse.
I went into the kitchen area where there were civilians, everybody kind of congregating and did like a -- you know, everyone had three seconds to do their thing. I said, "I don't want to hear your history. I don't want to hear what kind of medicine you are
taking. What hurts? You know. My arm i s cut. What hurts?" You know, and I went through the whole thing, 20 people, 30 people, whatever it was.
So at that point, we started to assign people to pick people up that couldn't walk, pass them out the window, assign people that, you know -- that couldn't walk, but, you know, without help, but could basically kind of carry some of their own weight. Okay, listen, you two guys help him, and let's go out the back door, start walking down the street. Walking wounded were

BRIAM SMITH
getting -- I mean, everybody was making their way out. Fu was still in there. He was out by the
back exit. I remember because I went upstairs to check t o see i f there was anybody up there. I went past him, and he was pretty worried that we were going to leave him, but I assured him that we weren't going to.
So we went to -- we went upstairs. There were a couple of more people up there, got them out of the building, and we basically -- we emptied out pretty much the whole building. I mean, there were s t i l l some scattered guys there, firefighters and stuff, and one
of them, Gordon says, he is one of the captains. I didn't make the recognition. He was wearing turnout gear, so I didn't really got to see who it was, but
this guy Gordon and myself walked back out to the engine bay area, because, like I said, there was a lot of debris out there.
I didn't know if people were buried. I said okay, before we leave the house, let's get a shot out here. Is there anybody out here? We're screaming, and just waiting and listening, you know, to hear if
anybody responds, and nobody responded, so I said, "All right. There's nobody to dig out here." I said,
"Let's get the hell out of here," you know and that's

BRIAM SMITH
when the -- we started to hear the sound of the next tower coming down, and again, it sounded like a plane.
When we were in that house, and we started hearing it coming down, I thought that this plane -- I'm thinking the third plane is hitting, you know. Little do I know that the first plane already hit, and the second plane hit, and the tower came down, and I think the towers are s t i l l up, and I remember consciously thinking there is no way that this tower came down, because when I was out there before, and I looked up, I mean, I thought to myself, all right, the collapse zone on the structure fire is one and a half times the height of the building, which puts me somewhere back t o Brooklyn. I said, "That thing comes down, we are all dead. You know, nobody could live through that. You know, i t ' s crazy."
So like I said, after that, you know, what I think is the second plane, but was really actually the tower coming down. I mean, there is no way in the world for me that I'm thinking that this thing went down because of the damage I figure it would cause, so I think i t ' s a plane, and again, when the Tower 1 comes down it sounds just like a plane, and it was so loud. You know, the energy of all the steel and the concrete

BRIAM SMITH
and everything else giving way, and I guess the rush of air.
We started running, and we ran into the bathroom just behind the apparatus bay, so we started heading to the back of the house on the left-hand side, and the three of us ran in there, and we got in the corner on the floor, and the three of us were praying.
I had the firefighter on my left and my partner behind me, and we were just kind of like huddled on the ground real low, and then it hit, and, you know, we kind of got, like, pushed into the wall, and the same thing with the smoke and the dust and everything else.
You couldn't see. You couldn't breathe, and it lasted awhile, you know, and eventually it starts again. It starts -- the blast part of it is over, and, you know, like things are starting to settle down a little bit. You can hear there's a lot of noise outside, stuff falling, stuff falling apart, whatever it was, and I remember I was laying there on the floor, and I heard water running. I thought it was weird. I thought, you know, we were in the bathroom. I thought someone was taking a leak, you know, and I said, "What the hell is that?" I said -- you know, and the two -- the other two guys, I mean, they were -- they were

BRIAM SMITH
shaking. They were really upset, and they were crying, and I said, "Hey, is someone taking a leak in here or what?" And these guys, they were laughing. What are you talking about?
I said, "Listen, I hear water running," and I got up, and there was a sink above my head, and it was weird, like I think about it now, but I leaned forward, and I turned the faucet off and the water stopped, and I said - - I remember, I talked to the guy (inaudible) hey, guys, listen, you know for whatever reason, we were spared here. We still got work to do. Let's go.
And we got up, and we just got back into the mode again and just started getting up and running to do our next thing, you know.
Sowewentto-- wegotup. Westarted-- again, we made another sweep of the firehouse. Nobody was left in there. Went to the back of the building. Fu was on the ground, and there was a couple of firefighters outside, and then they are, like, looking at us, you know, you're EMS, and they were, like, can we pick him up. We need a back board, you know. I said "You guys are worried about immobilization? You're crazy. Let's just pick this guy up and get him the hell out of here." I said, "What are you worried

BRIAM SMITH
about? You going to make him a paraplegic? He's going to be buried in here. You guys got to be kidding me." So we picked him up, and we tried doing like a soldier carry with our arms on each shoulder, and it just wasn't working out, because he wouldn't l e t go of
his briefcase, and he was whacking us in the face with it, and no matter how much we tried to make him let go of it, he wouldn't let go, you know, and we come to find out the guy has like half a million dollars in cash in his briefcase, you know, and really it was a lot --
Q. It was one million cash.
A. It was like the mafia movies. You flip the briefcase up and you see all the hundreds stacked in there. I was, like, holy cow, you know, he wasn't -- he would not l e t go. Because we offered. We said,
"Look, we'll carry it if you want us to." He would not l e t go, so eventually we were, like, what the hell are we going to do with this guy?
So we just picked him up and carried him on our shoulders, like legs over here, arms over here and basically just took turns trying to carry him.
Now, we come out, I guess from this map because the bag of the firehouse is blown out. I guess

BRIAM SMITH
this is Cedar here, so we come out onto Cedar, and we tried going back and forth, and everybody out there is telling us that all these intersections are blocked off with debris, you can't get through, but eventually we make it out to -- I can't figure.
Q. Thames.
A. To Thames, I guess, because we s t a r t heading in the direction of Rector.
Q. Thames.
A. So eventually we get down that way. I don't know if we make our way back to Greenwich or to
Trinity, get down in that direction. To be honest with you, I got very turned around, 1983 -- wherever 10 Rector is -- you know.
Q. You know, that i s not really important. You made your way down.
A. In that general vicinity. We get down there, and we carried Fu down that way, and we get into this building, and I remember the reason why we stopped in there was because there was clean air. I mean, there was so much garbage and debris on the street, you can't see a damn thing, and our eyes were burning, and I
said, "You know, we're going to get killed out here walking through that crap," and it wasn't like you

BRIAM SMITH
looked up and said, oh, you know, the towers are gone. You couldn't see two feet in front of you, you know, above, below, whatever it was. You couldn't see your hands in front of your face.
So, we stopped at this building because a guy at the door, he opened the door, and I remember looking inside, and there was clean air in there, and I said,
"We got to get in there," and I said to the guy, "How many stories in this building?" He said "27 stories."
I didn't know whatever became of Fu, but he's like the comic relief in this story, but anyway -- so we make our way down to Rector Street. We get in there and, again, like I said, I mean, it was kind of like a toss-up. Do I go in this big building or stay out on the street? And I was like, I get to get some air. I can't even see anymore. My eyes felt like Mace, you know .
So we went inside, and there was a security desk right in the middle of the lobby. It was a big lobby, you know, and we went in there. We put Fu down, and there were people in there, you know, like maybe
20, 30 people, and, you know, I said to the guys at the security desk -- I said, "You know, are there still people in this building?" The guy's like, there's

BRIAM SMITH
hundreds of people in this building. We told them to stay at their desks, and I said, "Jesus Christ. We got to get these people out of here, you know. They - - these people are going to get killed. You know, I said, "We got to get the hell out of Manhattan." I said, "We got to try to get as many people out as we can," so I radioed out to dispatch.
I told them the address we were at, and I said, "Central, this is 31 mary. You know, my partner and I made it into this location. I need directions to send these people out to give them - - you know just tell them which way to go, you know, and I need directions as precise as - - I'm in this building. I'm walking out the front door. Do I make a right or a left?"
I said, "Central, I can't see street names.
I can't see signs. I can't see anything." I said I need rights and lefts, you know, and they said, "10-4 one Mary. We'll call you back with directions." I said "Okay." So - -
Q. Did they ever do that?
A. Yeah, they did.
Q. Okay.
A. And yeah, it was a Brooklyn North

BRIAM SMITH
dispatcher. The craziness of everything, I don't know, you know, who it was, but people were coming up to me and saying, you know, are you all right? Are you
hurt? I'm, like, yeah, I'm fine. Don't worry. Like, no, you're bleeding real bad, and I had on a paper mask, and I pulled it away it was full of blood, you know, and I thought that I broke my nose, because there was blood coming from my nose, blood coming from my face. I was cut up, and I said, "I can't feel it, you know, so whatever it is isn't enough to worry about. You know, we'll deal with it later on. At this point I mean, this whole time is just - - " is all adrenaline, so we were in the building, and we started making announcements over the PA system.
My partner goes into the stairwell. He goes upstairs, and my partner went upstairs, starting clearing out some of the floors. I was downstairs trying to get a handle on things, and eventually the central dispatch called me, Brooklyn dispatch calls me with the directions, and I was with that volunteer firefighter from Cornrnack, this guy Rob.
Like I said, he worked in the trade center and he was familiar with the area. I said to him - - I said, "Rob, do you understand what this is? What she's

BRIAM SMITH
telling me? Because I don't know what the hell she is telling me." You know, I mean I know make a right, but she was giving me street names, you know, and I said,
"Rob I don't know what the hell she's talking about." He said, "I know exactly where she is sending
us. I know exactly where I am, you know, no sweat. You know, I can handle it." I'm, like, all right, great.
So I cleared all this crap off the desk. There was maybe like a hundred people in the lobby at this point, and I got up - - like I was, you know, like a public speaker in ancient Greece or something, and I said, "All right, folks. Everyone has to pay attention. You have to pay attention to what I'm saying explicitly. Nobody - - if anybody doesn't want to listen or want do their own thing, be my guest."
I said, "You know, your blood is in your own hands at that point." I said, "If you want to go home and see your families, I have directions. I will get you to your family."
Meanwhile a lot of it was, you know, was BS, because I don't know what happened to some of these people. I don't know if they know exactly what's going on. I'm sending these people to their deaths or

BRIAM SMITH
anything, but they don't know -- you know, these people were just looking for a voice to tell them which way to run, you know.
So basically I said to -- you know, I got -- listen, we're going to be walking out of here. We're going to be walking out of here single file. Stay arm's length away from the person in front of you, because if you do anything more than that, you are going to lose sight of them and get lost out there.
There i s not going t o be any running. There is not going to be any cutting, no pushing, no
shoving,. Basically i f we start doing this, people are going to get hurt. If you are walking out of here and you think you know a better way than what my dispatcher is telling me, and you want to make a left when everyone else is making a right, you are going to get hit by a plane, a building is going to fall on you,
some debris is going to fall on you, trip on some crap out there. You are going to get hurt. I said, "I promise you, no one is coming to get you for a long time, because I just came from that direction, and there ain't nobody left over there, so you have to listen to what I say to the letter" and I could hear a pin drop. You know, a hundred people i n the lobby, but

BRIAM SMITH
the echoes when people talk, and nobody said a word,
you know, and I was going through the whole thing, keep a mask on your face, breathe in through your nose, out through your mouth, try to squint, everything to try
to, you know, instill in these people that I kind of knew what I was talking about.
People were, like, who do we follow? I don't know (inaudible) because initially I pointed to the guy Rob. I said, "You follow one person and one person alone, and that's the person in front of you. You don't stop following until you get to the water."
I spoke with this guy Rob afterwards, and he said to me -- he said, "You know, Brian, when we got down to the water," he said, "Its' funny, because as I was walking, I felt like the Pied Piper, you know, because we'd pick up some stragglers along the way, and I'd be, like, get in line with everybody else.
Just, you know get in line with everybody else, and he said that once he started getting to a spot in Manhattan where it started to clear out a little bit, he said, you know, behind him was -- like, I mean you could run a laser beam down it, a straight line. These people followed it right to the letter, you know, and they a l l got out of the building, and my

BRIAM SMITH
partner, you know, he was like -- are we going with them? And I'm, like, you know, we can't leave yet, there is still more people in the building, and we still had Fu.
I mean, I don't know what the hell to do with this guy. I said, "I can't carry this guy back to Brooklyn, you know."
So we did the same thing again. This time I went up on the floors. We cleared out the rest of the people in the building. Some of the people were hesitant. They were, like, we were told to stay at the desk. I said, "Listen, if you want to stay by your desk and get killed in here, it's your business."
I said, "You want to go home to your family" I said, "I got -- you know, I can give you the way."
And nobody stayed behind their desk, you know. Everybody l e f t .
So we went to -- down the lobby. Same thing again. Filled up the lobby, a hundred people, 150 people. It was a bigger crowd than the first time around. Gave the same speech again, and we didn't have any paper masks to give anybody. I know Gordon started
-- he had the button-down uniform. Started taking it off and cutting it into strips so people could put it

BRIAM SMITH
over their face, and like I said, again, the same speech.
There was an off-duty police officer there, and he approached me and said -- I gave him the same directions. He knew exactly where I was talking about, andso--
Q. So you were going and making your way down to the ferry, right?
A. No, I never left the building.
Q. You were sending the people in the direction of the ferry?
A. I guess. Like I said, I don't know where the hell central sent them, but the people who were familiar with the area, who were the leaders of this group, they knew where they were going.
All I knew was they made it right out of the building. After that I couldn't see them any more, you know .
I have to stop for a drink of water. My throat is getting a little dry.
So anyway, we evacuated the building again. At this point, there's nobody left in the building. Fu was s t i l l i n there, myself and Gordon. There was another guy, older guy, and his foot was mangled. He

BRIAM SMITH
couldn't walk on it, and he said to me his name was Cribby or Crippy, or something like that. I mean, I don't know if he was making a joke because he was, like, being crippled or whatever it was, but I know that when this group of people had left, my partner was, like, you know, are we leaving with this group? And I'm like, listen, we could try to manage to carry Fu the hell out of here, but this other guy's got to weight 250 pounds. I'm not made with that kind of strength. I said, "I can't carry that guy." We have to wait until eventually vehicles start coming in, because this whole area - - and like I said, I don't know where the hell I am in - - you know, in relation to
the trade
thing.
center, and all I know is I can't see a damn
I mean, it's not black outside, but it's dark You can't see anything, and I said eventually is going to start coming down this way, and
as hell.
a vehicle
when one does we will try to flag him down and, you know, throw a patient in there.
So we waited there for awhile, and I know that the whole time that we were in that building I was scared, because I thought that - - you could hear planes and stuff around flying outside. I mean, eventually,

BRIAM SMITH
like I said, once I get out to - - once I get into the hospital I realized that they're the fighter jets, but, you know, I don't know what the hell is flying around. Like I said, I can't see anything.
To me, every time one of the buildings fell down, it was a plane coming in, and then I saw - - I'm thinking to myself, you know, how many - - LaGuardia and Kennedy. I mean, there's got to be dozens of planes out there. I'm waiting for the next one to come in any second now, you know, and I know that my impulse was just to run like hell, and I wanted to get out of Manhattan in the worst way, and we were listening to - - they had a clock radio in the - - by the security deck, and we were trying to listen to it. It was very staticky, but we could hear reports of there were - - planes were hitting Manhattan, that they were going - - that they hit Pittsburgh, that they were trying to do something to Chicago, that they attempted something at Camp David, that they hit the Pentagon, and I'm thinking Jesus Christ, how many - - there's going to be a million planes up there. We are under a full-scale attack, you know, and, like I said, I wanted to get, I mean, I want to go back out to Long Island, way out east where I live.

BRIAM SMITH
I don't want to be anywhere near the city. I want to get the hell out of here, you know, but we stayed there, you know, because, like I said, you know right from the 10-10 house. I mean, I could have walked away, but, you know, I don't think I could have, you know, lived with myself if I walked away from people that, you know, are going to be stuck in there.
It's nice to be able to walk away. These people didn't have that luxury, so we waited in there for awhile, and eventually I could start to hear emergency vehicles outside, and I went to -- I went outside to see if could flag down. Eventually I flagged down an RMP and, you know, just a regular -- regular precinct, you know, regular police unit, and I said to him -- I said, "Listen, I got two patients inside that can't walk, and need to go to a hospital, you know. They're hurt pretty bad, and, you know, they
-- would you guys be able to take them out of here? And they were like, yeah, all right, so we
went inside. We carried the two of them out to the car, threw them in the back seat of the car, and I remember they were -- Fu was like, you know, I never forget you, I never forget you. I said, "I know, Fu. Get in the car. Get to the hospital." And whatever

BRIAM SMITH
hospital they went to, I mean, I don't know. I told them go to any kind of hospital.
So they sent those guys on their way, and at that point, I said to my partner -- I said, "Listen, there's nobody left. You know, there is nobody left to treat, or to carry or to save or anything else." I said, "Let's start going home, and let's do what we can to get back to Brooklyn."
At that point, we started walking down. Like I said, when we started taping again, down towards Wall Street. I remember because as we were walking down, Gordon and myself, we reached the bull. That's where we meet up again with Murray.
We were with him in the 10-10 house, but we got separated when we left, and we eventually -- like I said, we meet up with him again, and as we start heading down towards Wall Street, and we walked down there, and his vehicle was parked somewhere around there. I mean, I don't know where the hell it was parked, but I know it was definitely in the line of fire, because his vehicle took a beating.
He was, like, listen, my car is not too far from here. I'm going to run down and get it. You know, because my partner -- he had a sprained ankle.

BRIAM SMITH
He couldn't walk all that well, and, like I said, I'm starting to feeling the pain now. I could feel the back of my neck was all swollen. My head was splitting, you know, a real back headache. I was bleeding, you know, I was sore, and the adrenaline and everything else was starting to wear off.
I mean, I don't know what time of the morning it is at this point, but, I mean, I hadn't had anything to eat since dinner, three o'clock in the morning, the tour before, you know.
So we went to - - so this guy is, like, I'm going to be gone. Hang out here, I'll be back to you guys and see if I can get as far as the vehicle and see what we could do to drive out of here. He left, and my partner and I were waiting down in the street for a while.
Eventually Murray came back. He got us into his car. I had to sit on my helmet, because of all the glass from the windows were blown in, and the car was full of debris. There was so much dust on the street you couldn't see anything. In fact, I gave him my sunglasses so he could see while he was driving, but the windshield was gone, and he - - we started driving, and I don't know where the hell he was driving us, and

BRIAM SMITH
Isaidtohim -- Isaid,"Listen,allwewanttodois get back the Brooklyn, because all I want to do is get in my vehicle back at Battalion 31 and just drive - - " I knew we had to go to the hospital. I told him let me drive out to Long Island. You know, a Long Island Hospital, because I'm imagining like these war stories, you know, like, being on the stretcher in the hallway in some hospital with the lights flickering on and off, and I'm looking like this, and, again, like I said, we're expecting the next wave of assaults coming in. I'm, like, the last thing I want to do is be in - - I don't want to be anywhere near the city. I want to get the hell out of here, and so we started driving down - - started driving down Wall Street, and we made a stop at 100 Wall Street. I remember the address because we saw a conditions truck, and I remember stopping, and I said, you know, let's - - you know, maybe it's a Brooklyn boss. You know, if it is, we'll hook up with this guy, because he's, like, let's go back to Battalion 4, and, you know, we'll go to the hospital. You guys get checked out.
I said, "Listen, I don't want to go anywhere in Brooklyn. I mean, in Manhattan." I said, "I want to get back to Brooklyn." Whatever it takes. I don't

BRIAM SMITH
know care if I got to walk over the bridge and carry Gordon the whole way. I said, "I got to get the hell out of here."
So we went to see where this guy was a boss out of, and we got out, the three of us. We walked into the building 100 Wall Street, and, like I said, it was dusty as hell. There were emergency vehicles going this way and that, and the lieutenant comes out. Hey, how you doing, lieutenant, you know, we're a Brooklyn unit. We are trying to see what we can do to try to get back to Brooklyn, and ended up this guy was - - he was .a -
The guy was an idiot. I mean, I don't know what his name is, but this guy was - - I'd really like to meet him, because I'd really like to know where the hell his head was, because, I mean, if you could imagine, I mean, my partner and I, we got our asses kicked in a really serious way, you know, and I'm bleeding, and we're covered with dust, and my partner can't even walk, and he sees the two of us come strolling up on the building, the three of us, and he says, "Oh, good. I'm glad you guys are here. I have a patient inside, and I need you guys to hang out with her, you know. I got a few other calls I got to run

to."
BRIAM SMITH
What's wrong with the patient, you know? He says,"Well, she's - - she fainted and she's feeling a little weak, a little dizzy, a little nauseous, and, you know, just the excitement of everything has got her a little frightened, and she's a little lightheaded."
I said, "What, are you kidding me?" You know, and the guy is, like, don't worry about it. I called an ambulance. They should be here in a couple ofminutes. Justhangoutwithherforalittlewhile, and I said, "All right."
You know, this guy gets in his truck and leaves us there, you know, and I remember there was - - you know, we must have looked like the two biggest jerks in the whole city, because here we are - - I mean, beat to hell, and I'm literally laying in the floor of this lobby. This woman is on a chair with - - he didn't even leave his oxygen.
I said, "Can you leave your oxygen?" No, I need that for my calls. Here, here is some information about her vital signs and stuff. I said, "We don't have any equipment. We got nothing. Technically we are off line. They have us off line, because we are injured."

BRIAM SMITH
And he said, "Don't worry about it. Just kind of hang out with her and keep an eye on things.".
Murray was pissed off, who the hell is this guy, because the two jerk lieutenants - - I mean the two jerk EMTs are sitting on the ground like this. We couldn't even stand any more, and we were like, do you have any allergies to medicine, going through, like, I'm going to treat this woman. Like, we couldn't do anything if anything ever happened anyway.
Stupidest thing. I mean, again, like, we were living through it, you know, I mean, it didn't seem - - I mean, it bothered me. I said, like, "All right, you know, whatever."
Now, this guy is a jerk, but we were there for over an hour waiting for an ambulance, and I remember thinking to myself, what the hell is this guy kidding me? If an ambulance actually did get dispatched, could you imagine an ambulance getting a call for a syncopal episode and dizziness at 100 Wall Street. Who the hell knows what's going on down by the trade center, what other kind of crap is coming in.
This is a joke, and what are you guys kidding me? And eventually this knucklehead comes back, and I mean, I don't know what, you know, whether any of this

BRIAM SMITH
gets archived or anything else - -
Q. Don't worry about it.
A. You know, the guy was an idiot, you know. I
don't - - I'm not out to get anybody in trouble. Maybe the guy just couldn't think straight either, because it was hectic, so give him the benefit of the doubt, but he came back, and he said, "You guys are still here? The ambulance didn't come yet?" What are you an idiot? Murray was saying the whole - - he was mad as hell trying to - - he was, like, get up, see if you can find when this guy is coming back. When is the ambulance coming, and we kept calling, and we didn't get shit, and we - - you guys - - like I'm going to flag down somebody. I'm going to get you guys out of here, and he eventually gets a police van, whatever it was. It was a van of some sort, and the guy - - I mean he said to me - - he was, like, all right, listen, we are going to take her to Beekman. I want the two of you guys to go with her. You got to escort her to Beekman.
I said,"What, are you kidding? What the hell is Beekman?" He said, "It's a hospital in Manhattan." I said, "Listen pal," I said, "wrong borough." I said, "I'm going to Brooklyn." I said, "I stopped here to see if we could help you out."

BRIAM SMITH
He said, "Well, like, as long as you guys make sure you get to an emergency room. You guys are hurt really bad." I said, "Yeah, no kidding." So we
- - and I remember that Murray was kind of - - he was trying to convince us, too, to go to a hospital, go to Battalion 4, and maybe we could hook up with a ride from there, but, like I said, I was - - like I told him, I said, "Listen, we will meet up with you again."
I remember when he first told me he was a lieutenant from BITS, too, because he was a lieutenant, but he was wearing, you know, stuff like you guys. I don't know what the hell he was a lieutenant of. So for a minute, I was, oh, EMS. I said, "Oh, what battalion?" He goes, "I'm with BITS," and I remember I started laughing.
I said 31 Henry, Tour 1. 31 Henry, Tour 1. I said, "Don't forget it. If you catch us sleeping

BRIAM SMITH
remember us," but I said, "You know, we are going to hedge our bets, and we are going to try to walk down to the ferry, and we're going to see if, you know, we can hitch a ride over back over to Brooklyn, and we get down to the ferry, and we have -- there was a surgeon that was over there that looked us over.
We spent a little bit of time at the dock trying to figure out, you know, what ferry was leaving for Brooklyn, and eventually they got us on a ferry,
but then they took us back off because they had -- they got us a ride with harbor patrol.
All this time is, you know, hours are going by, you know, and we -- eventually the NYPD harbor patrol takes my partner and myself over to the Brooklyn Navy Yard, because they said, you know, "Where do you want t o go i n Brooklyn?" I said, "Anywhere, wherever it is. I'll walk the rest of the way, get a cab, whatever, who cares. Just get me back out there."
They took us in the Navy Yard, which is pretty close to here, so I was pretty happy, you know. I said, "This is great. If I have to, I know I can walk to the station."
So we -- there was a security guard. I mean, there was a -- you know a small entourage of

BRIAM SMITH
firefighters on that side that met us. They walked us over to a van, and a security guard was there, and the security guard gave us a lift back to the station, and we got into the station, and I remember he pulled up, and, man, I was really hurting at this point. I was sore as hell, because I remember every bump that he hit going down Park and coming down, and I was, like, I'm going to murder this guy because he hit some big potholes, and we get into the station and Gordon and I, I mean, dragging ourselves with whatever we had left.
I don't know what time it was. I'd have to look at my ACR's that people wrote on me, but I remember we came inside, and people were like - - they gave us, like, a double take, because they, you know, they all thought we were dead, because when we were radioing out, the guys were in the lieutenant's office listening to the radio, because we were on Brooklyn North, and all they are hearing is us, you know, going through these transmissions. We are buried in here. We can't breathe, you know. The building came down us. We are trapped in the rubble, and these guys are all in here crying, thinking they are listening to us die.
Meanwhile, you know, four hours later or five

BRIAM SMITH
hours, six hours, whatever the hell it is, we come stumbling into the engine bay that - - the garage there, and, again, I mean, we must have looked pretty awful.
I mean I know I felt pretty awful by that point, but we got into the station, and like I said people did a double take. They were, like, oh, shit, you guys are alive, and they came in and like immediately like - - it was just like ants jumping on us, and, you know, sat us down, and got us some Gator Aid, took my boots off, and then started going through the, you know - - blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
You know, we have to take you to a hospital. I'm, like, I don't want to go to the hospital. Who cares what you want, that kind of thing. So it was kind of weird, you know, being on the opposite end. People - - what is your date of birth? What is your Social Security number? I'm, like, those are my questions. Don't be asking me that crap.
So we went through the - - we went through the whole rigamarole. We were boarded and collared and did the whole nine yards and they took us over to KCH, and we went in there, but that was like the - - as badly as I was beaten up at the trade center, these guys, they were - - they murdered me.

BRIAM SMITH

BRIAM SMITH

66
BRIAM SMITH

BRIAM SMITH
He wasn't working. They called him in. He's working right now, but he's okay. It's just your father. No one has heard anything from him.
So I called over to HazMat, and I was able to get through, and I said, "Listen, blah, blah, blah, take a message, and I'm trying to find out. What's the story?" Well, who's calling? I explained to him who I

BRIAM SMITH
was, where I was, and I remember the guy was crying. He said like, we lost them all, and after I got discharged from the County, I came back here, got
changed, did some paperwork with the lieutenants, because I had the uniform here. I got changed, and one of the lieutenants here, one of my lieutenants - - one of the tour one lieutenants gave me a ride over to Haz-Mat 288 in Maspeth in Queens, and I went in there, because I figured maybe these guys would have, you know, some more news and what have you, and I went in there, and the captain pulled me in the office and basically went through the thing.
He's, like, listen, you know - - because I told him. I said, "You know, don't beat around the bush with me. You know, I'm MOS." I said, "You know, other than the fact that I'm his family, so be straightforward with me."
He said, "Well, the last radio transmission we had from your father, he was on the 11th Floor of Tower 2, and then it came down, so we haven't heard a word from him since, and to this point, no one has heard anything from him since, so he's, you know - -
they haven't made any kind of recovery or anything like else like that, but, you know, from there I get picked

BRIAM SMITH
One of my fire chiefs from my fire department on Long Island, a friend of mine came out to - - because they were only letting emergency vehicles in the city at that point. They shut down the expressway. So he came in. He picked me up. Went home, and the rest is, as they say, is history, but that's pretty much, you know, soup to nuts, I guess.
Is there anything I missed on the question
sheet?
MR. DUN: This concludes the interview with BRIAM SMITH. The time is 934 hours.

File No. 9110137
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW DEPUTY CHIEF CHARLES R. BLAICH
Interview Date: October 23, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason

C. BLAICH
MR. CASTORINA: The time is 0910 hours. We are conducting an interview. We are at the World Trade Center Task Force on Duane Street. I'm Ron Castorina.
MR.McCOURT: I'mTomMcCourt.
MR. CASTORINA: Sir, your name and your title.
DEPUTY CHIEF BLAICH: Charles R. Blaich, Deputy Chief.
Q. Chief, can you tell me on September 11, 2001 the events that took place that day.
A. Yes.
. I received a call from my brother that the World Trade Center was burning. His
wife drove both of us to the ferry, Staten Island Ferry. We live on Staten Island obviously. And we got a boat that departed approximately 0930 hours in the morning. On board that boat were various police detachments and vehicles and a number of volunteer firefighters taking the boat over to volunteer.
At some time off the Battery, off the Whitehall ferry terminal, the first tower collapsed and then it appeared after that the second one collapsed and in between that time frame, the boat finally got

C . BLAICH
into the slip. We worked our way off the boat. My brother went to the east side to try to work his way up Broadway to get to the Duane Street fire house to get his gear.
Q. Who i s your brother?
A. William.
Q. William Blaich?
A. I worked to the west side with the people
from Staten Island who had volunteered. We stopped for a few minutes. There was a traffic supervisor that kind of directed us through the subway at Whitehall Street to see if we could work our way up north that way and there were just too many non-answers. We decided to proceed to the west away from in the dust cloud as much as we could. We worked our way up around the Battery.
In that route, we bumped into -- the first Fire Department activity we bumped into was a mobile command post, which was -- apparently had just come out of the Battery Tunnel and was trying to set up, I guess Battery Park Plaza there, that street just north of the Battery.
I went on board that vehicle and received a radio, tried to find out what was going on. There was

C. BLAICH
really little or no information. I got my volunteers together. We had a contractor giving us an assortment of shovels and picks and whatever and we proceeded further up to the west. I bumped into Dr. Prezant, who looked like he had just been put in a bag of flour and shaken up and down several times. He was very disoriented, but he was able to give me a little bit of information of what was going on. We commandeered, or we asked actually, one of the volunteer ambulances that were there, gave us some face masks to wear at that point.
We grabbed a pile of those and proceeded further north. I eventually arrived at Liberty and
West Street, where basically I was - - Rescue 2, whose rig was there. There was an engine company behind Rescue 2, although I don't remember the number of it. That was on the north side of Liberty Street and on the south side there was a commercial van of some sort.
I grabbed a Lieutenant Ryan, who I believe works in the - - he used to work in the Medical Division and I believe is in Staten Island now. I designated him as my aide and we attempted to establish a command post. We were attempting to establish it on top of the roof of the van. People were coming in asking

C.
BLAICH
directions. The scene
numerous fires burning
tentatively directing the volunteers to start fanning out on top of the pile to see if we could make any spot rescues, if anyone was alive.
At the same time we were informed that there was no water in the hydrant system and what engine companies we had that were s t i l l remaining, they were back towards the west end of Liberty Street there, I guess sometimes called the South End Avenue or South End Street, were reporting they had no water.
At some point during this, the difficult part was people were trying to make rescues of victims that they could see in the pile and we had to force them away because people had I beams through them and things like that. We just didn't have the time to invest in bringing out dead bodies. We were trying to find live bodies. We were getting reports, to the best of my knowledge, they were caught like that, I believe it was 58 Engine. They were reporting their officer was missing and they were digging themselves out from Cedar Street, which is that street just south of the hotel.
And I kept hearing 65 Engine, but I ' m not sure where they f i t into this. I never did confirm
at that point where there were through the pile. We were

-where they were. We did confirm we had lost the 58 Engine officer, because some of their people came out. I was informed that we had gotten word that people had
go^ up and goLLen
C. BLAICH
My aide, we kep~a~~emp~iLnO gmake a lis~ of where we were putting these casualties.
I know it was at that point that Ladder 131 members were being thrown on a boat and either sent to the Statue of Liberty or to New Jersey. There were some ambulance rep there who said we couldn't move ambulances north or south and the only way out was by boat.
At some point there, Chief Hayden came on the scene with basically slits for eyes. I tried to tell him to go to the ambulance, but he remained on the scene and we attempted to operate a command post. He re-established it on the back of the pumper. Kevin Cully from OEM surfaced at some point. He also looked like he had been shaken in a bag of flour. Then we attempted to establish a command post.
At that point a member of the Fire Department, in a blue uniform, informed me that the

C. BLAICH
fire boat Harvey was on the scene. I stopped in disbelief, half knowing that the Harvey was sold a while ago, but he said it was here, had no equipment and an hour's worth of fuel, so OEM attempted to get fuel but apparently the fire boat flagged down a passing oiler and got fuel.
We were able to get a couple of engine companies back in service and they stretched from the fire boat. That was our only source of water at that point. I was also informed at that point that there was a fire, of all hands proportion broken out in the south end apartments. All I could dispatch was one group of firefighters to work on that.
Chief Mosier from Staten Island, 8th Division, arrived on the scene. This is how we established the sectors at that point. I looked as far north as I could see and called that the Liberty Street sector. I believe Chief Visconti was somewhere on the other end, on the north side of that pile in the middle between West - - on West between Liberty and up to where that bridge had collapsed up further and we said, all right, you will be the Vesey Street command. At some point Chief Haring came on the radio and he designated himself as Church Street command. He had numerous

C. BLAICH
fires going on his side. We had a tower ladder. For some reason, 15 truck was still in service, but without water. When the boat finally got the water going, we hooked up the water to the tower ladder. We stretched several hand lines, proceeded to search the pile in even more detail.
Chief Mosier's building now, the twenty story, number 90 West was becoming fully involved. He had approximately 40 firemen without any equipment. I believe Marine One eventually supplied water to him and that's what he operated. That was a sector, sort of an adjunct sector to the Liberty command post.
I proceeded to direct operations. At some point Chief Hayden was removed, I believe to try to get some sort of first aid. I remained in command until approximately midnight and I was relieved by another Deputy Chief, who I relieved the next morning when I came back and that just sort of flip flopped back and forth till Friday.
That's basically what I recollect. Somewhere during the - - time was totally condensed here. I don't remember exact hours. We received several reports.
One from Ladder 6, reporting talking to Chief Cruthers, but he was calling Car 4 Charlie and I realized there

C. BLAICH
was no command above the Sector Chiefs at that point so I answered and asked him what his situation was.
The Captain was reporting that he was trapped in the B stairway and I said we are noting your position. What is your situation. He said, well, we are here. We have a civilian, but did he have any immediate danger, people crushed. He said no. I said I have no access to help you. I said I have noted where you are, as soon as I get some help, we will try to work on that.
My brother came on the radio at some point. He was up at Vesey Street, trying to work his way one way or another into the Trade, probably into a garage or something. He had, I think, 43 Truck or somebody with him. I relayed that information. I don't believe he ever got the 6 Truck. I believe 6 Truck eventually got themselves out.
The only other report I got was there was some confusion. They thought my nephew Peter was a fireman in 9 Engine and located him, and they told me that.
That's all I have to say, unless you have any particular questions.
MR. CASTORINA: Okay. The time now is 0920

C. BLAICH
hours. Thank you, Chief.
File No. 9110138
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
          CHIEF JOSEPH PFEIFER
   Interview Date:  October 23, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
J. PFEIFER
2
          MR. McCOURT:  This is Tom McCourt.  We are at
the World Trade Center Task Force on Duane Street.
     Q.   Your name, sir?
     A.   Joseph Pfeifer, Battalion Chief, Battalion 1.
     Q.   Sir, on September 11, 2001, could you tell me
the events that took place that day?
     A.   Okay.  I was working the night before in the
1st Battalion, and sometime about 8:15 or so in the
morning we got a call to  Lispenard and Church for a
gas leak in the street.  We were there for a while
checking on the gas leak, and then we heard the loud
roar of the plane come over, and we turned around and
we looked and we saw the plane coming down, heading
south towards the Trade Center, and made a direct hit
on the Trade Center.
     Q.   You actually saw it hit?
     A.   I saw it hit.  Within about ten seconds after
that or so I gave the first report on the radio and
transmitted a second alarm for a plane into the Trade
Center, and then shortly after that, the units I was
with, I told them all to start in to the Trade Center,
and shortly after that I found a radio to transmit the
third alarm.  I told the dispatcher this was a direct
attack on the Trade Center and we had the second alarm
J. PFEIFER
3
coming in on the north tower and to stage the third
alarm on Vesey and West.
          I pulled in front of the building.  I looked
up and I saw no fire coming out, no smoke coming out,
which would have been the west side of the building.
          If I can back up, as we went down the street
after the initial explosion of the plane hitting, we
saw there was somewhat of a hole, from our position,
certainly, maybe three or four of the stories, three
stories I think I said.  Again, there was no fire
coming out.  So, when we got there, there was no fire
and on the west side there was no smoke.  But there was
an obvious hole in the building.
          I went into the lobby.  There were people
injured.  I went into the lobby and tried to gather
information, where the plane hit, what floor, and the
best we could get is somewhere around 80.  As the units
were coming in, we checked for the elevators to see if
we had any elevator service.  There wasn't any.  Then
what we did was I started to send people up to perform
a rescue because we knew there were people trapped
above the fire and we were getting reports in the lobby
people were trapped in the elevators and people were
trapped, and I believe we started sending units up.
J. PFEIFER
4
     Q.   You were the first highest ranking officer on
the scene?
     A.   Correct.  Shortly after I was there, the
division came in.  They started out the same time we
were rolling.  So they were there very quickly, and I
briefed Chief Hayden on what I knew at the time, which
was an approximate floor and we believe we had people
trapped.  Then we kind of went through a high-rise
operation to try and get people up there.  We paired
the engines.  I know I told engines, half the group to
take hose, the other half not to, at least early on,
and started their way up.  Also, I saw my brother, who
was a Lieutenant in 33, and we spoke a little bit and
then he went up also.
          By this time all the Chiefs in the world and
the Commissioner and everybody else was there and I was
just in a support role of the operation of the lobby
command post in the first tower.
          Then the plane hit the second tower, the
south tower.  At that point Chief Donald Burns and
Battalion Chief Orio Palmer went into the second tower
and I took command of that.
          Right before that we discussed the operation
of the radio.  Any time in a high-rise building,
J. PFEIFER
5
communications is difficult.  We tried to get repeaters
to work.  The Trade Center had a repeater.  We tried to
get that to work.  That did not work for some reason,
and there were problems with the repeater in the car
also.  So communications from the onset was difficult
and both Orio and myself tried to get that to work.  We
tried it numerous times and we couldn't get the
repeaters to operate properly, so we had to rely just
on handie-talkie communication, which is at best hit or
miss in any high-rise.
          At one point I was asked to get the
operations with the helicopter into motion.
Unfortunately, or fortunately, I could not get ahold of
the dispatcher to do that.  One of the citywide radios
got moved around and I couldn't grab that, and there
were no phone lines.  The phone lines were out and
nobody was picking up or the lines were busy to the
dispatcher, so I couldn't get through to them on a
landline or a cell line.
          We weren't getting good reports from the
police at all.  There was one point there was a
possibility of a second plane coming in and somebody
said something and I turned around to try to confirm
that and we couldn't confirm that.  There was also
J. PFEIFER
6
later on the possibility of a third plane.  Again, we
just heard somebody say it and we tried to confirm it.
We could not confirm it with any law enforcement
people.  We all ran out at that point.  So that was the
difficulty we had.
          At one point after the second plane hit, I
think, I'm not positive of the time line, I know Chief
Callen asked over the radio to come down to the lobby.
But with difficulty with communications, that didn't
happen.   It didn't fully happen.  I'm not too sure who
heard that or how many people came down.  There was no
way of really telling at that point.
          But right before the south tower collapsed, I
noticed a lot of people just left the lobby, and I
heard we had a crew of all  different people,
high-level people in government, everybody was gone,
almost like they had information that we didn't have.
Some of them were moved across the street to the
command post.
     Q.   Who were you with at this time?
     A.   You name them, they were there.
     Q.   With you?
     A.   Yes, in the lobby.   They were moving the
command post.  So, I guess, after that companies were
J. PFEIFER
7
coming in and we were listing them on the command board
so we had an account of everybody.  Unfortunately, the
command board is not around any longer.
          At one point the Fire Safety Director, Mike
Hurley, asked us if we wanted the building evacuated.
I'm not too sure if he meant both buildings or he was
just talking about this.  In either case, I believe he
was talking about both buildings.  I turned to Chief
Hayden and said do you want to evacuate the buildings?
He said yes.  I turned to Mike and I told him evacuate
the buildings.
          So there were definite communications back
and forth that we wanted the buildings evacuated.  I
forget what stage that was at that time.  Again, I
can't put that on a time line.  But it was before the
second building collapsed for sure because Mike wasn't
in the lobby with us.  So it was sometime before that.
          Then in the lobby we heard the south tower is
collapsing.  I'm not sure, like I said before.  I get
mixed up with south and north and two and one.  But
right before the south building collapsed, we heard a
loud rumbling noise, and those that were left in the
area, we knew something was collapsing, and I noticed
in the lobby area where you go around the corner to an
J. PFEIFER
8
escalator that leads up into the Customs Building, and
as things were collapsing into the lobby of the north
tower, I pushed everybody around the corner.  I knew
where I was so I pushed people around the corner.
          There was my aide, Chief Hayden, Chief
Callen, an EMS Lieutenant, Father Judge, I think Chief
Villani, and there might have been a couple other
people, a Lieutenant, I don't know his name, a Fire
Lieutenant, and maybe a couple other people.  They were
just pushed around a wall literally and then the whole
area went black.  We heard things collapse.  There was
debris falling in and everything was black.
          At that time I went around to Chief Hayden
and said I'm going to evacuate the building.  I got on
the radio and I called up to the Battalion Chief
upstairs, which I got an acknowledgment to evacuate the
building for a number of times.
     Q.   Do you remember what Chief that was?
     A.   I don't know what Chief.  But I did get
acknowledgment, like I said, a number of times
firefighters said they heard me and that's why they got
out.  And that was just in the blackness where at that
point we didn't even know our way out.
          Then Father Judge was there and he was lying
J. PFEIFER
9
on the ground and I went over to him, took off his
collar, I opened up his shirt, checked for a pulse, and
I knew at that point that he didn't have any.
     Q.   Where was he?
     A.   He was with us in the lobby all the time.
     Q.   In the lobby?
     A.   Right.  He was saying some prayers and he was
very anxious in the lobby.  I could watch him.  He was
very concerned, very different, Father Judge, as I know
him.  Apparently, what it was, it was a heart attack.
We didn't know at the time it was a heart attack.  We
thought he was hit with debris.
     Q.   He didn't have any obvious injuries?
     A.   He didn't have any obvious injuries.   Then
again, we're in black with just a couple of
flashlights.  So at this time we had to figure out how
to get out of here now.  So I kind of had an idea where
I was going in the building.
          So I went up the escalator and now some of
the other guys are taking Father Judge and they're
carrying the body up and out to the top, and then there
was a bridge across, and I told them, I told Chief
Hayden and a whole bunch of people, hey, listen, let me
see if the bridge is still here, whatever, and let me
J. PFEIFER
10
go across and I'll let you know if we can get out this
way.
          Again, I had no idea.  At this point we had
no idea that the whole south tower had collapsed.  No
idea.  We didn't hear any reports.  We knew something
collapsed, part of the building came down, elevators
collapsed.  We knew we had something but no idea.
          MR. CASTORINA:   Meanwhile, the building you
were in was evacuating; you gave the word already?
          MR. McCOURT:   In other words, the
firefighters and everybody were starting to come down?
     A.   Well, I gave an order to evacuate and it was
acknowledged and there were reports that people heard
that and they were coming down to the extent, again,
communication was difficult.  It was difficult.  I was
glad somebody heard it.
     Q.   Did you see Commissioner Feehan there at all?
     A.   He was there in the lobby earlier along with
Commissioner Von Essen and OEM.
     Q.   And Chief Ganci?
     A.   I didn't see Chief Ganci myself.  But
everybody had to come there first.
     Q.   The bridge was intact, that footbridge going
across?
J. PFEIFER
11
     A.   The footbridge that went across, pretty much
you couldn't see out of any of the windows and
everything and it was like fire.  Everything was smoky
so you couldn't see anything.  So I walked all the way
across the bridge and found out that the bridge was
intact.  I radioed back to tell them that you can come
across the bridge, that everything is intact, you can
get out this way, and I was getting no answer on the
radio.  I called a number of times, a number of times.
          I went across with four guys.  So the four
guys I was with walked all the way back across the
bridge again and I tried to contact them, and I was
able to contact Chief Hayden, who took a bunch of guys
out, like out a window onto the side plaza.  So I knew
they were out and it's not exactly the area I wanted to
go because things were falling down and people were
jumping.  So I took the group I was with back across
the bridge, my third trip across the bridge.
     Q.   Where did that lead you to?  Where did that
come out?
     A.   It came out to the World Financial Center.
We got out there and then we were standing under the
bridge trying to see what was going on.  I couldn't see
what was going on.  Everything was covered with smoke.
J. PFEIFER
12
I couldn't see what collapsed.  Our eyes were full of
garbage.
          We wound up walking out into the street on
Vesey and West pretty much standing in front of 1, the
north tower, or hopefully the north tower, just north
of the bridge, and I met up with Chief Cassano at that
point and then I think Chief Hayden came in a little
later.
          Again, the timing, it felt like seconds but I
imagine it was a little longer than seconds.  But
things were happening very quickly.  We're standing on
the street and still not knowing the full implication
of what took place because you couldn't see.  It was
all smoke.  It looked like a fire.  But it was the
buildings.  So still I didn't know the whole thing
collapsed.  I knew we had a big collapse but I had no
idea.  What people saw on TV I didn't see and nobody
told me that's what had occurred and I didn't hear any
radio communications of that either.
          But standing out there, at one point, we just
heard a loud, thunderous, rumble sound, and that's when
people really were saying run, run.  I must have had my
back to the building or was talking to one of the
Chiefs because I never saw it.  I just heard the sound
J. PFEIFER
13
and ran about 50 yards west up Vesey Street towards the
river and got about half a block at most and dove
behind a car or between cars in the street.
     Q.   The smoke and the rubble was coming at you?
     A.   Yes.  Everything was coming at us, and as it
started to turn brown, we dove behind the car, and then
the whole street went black and at that point I thought
that was it.  When the whole street goes black in the
middle of the day, that's not a good thing.  At that
point it was real difficult to breathe.  You couldn't
see anything now with the debris being under a lot of
force.
          Then after a while it started to clear.
Actually, I was with a civilian.  Actually, I was
laying over him because he had no helmet or anything.
Then we got up and we couldn't see, but it started to
clear to like a brown, cloudy smoke, and I hear pop,
pop, pop, which sounded like gunfire to me.  Then right
after that I hear people screaming get down, get down.
  It's not normal.  I worked in the ghetto long enough
that you get down.
Q. Of course.
     A.   Because it sounded like gunfire and I've
heard gunfire before.  It could have been something
J. PFEIFER
14
totally different.  I have no idea.  I grabbed the guy
I was with and told him, hey, we have to get down, we
have to get some cover.
          Then it started to clear again a little
better and we got up and I looked down the block and I
saw some law enforcement taking a guy away in handcuffs
and he was very agitated.
     Q.   Would that be on the other side of west?
     A.   On the west side of West Street.
     Q.   Towards the river?
     A.   Towards the river.
     Q.   Did you ever find out what he was --
     A.   No.  But the cops were real agitated and it
was early on.  I couldn't imagine what they would
arrest somebody for.  Again, it could have been almost
anything creating that sound.  I have no idea.  But I
figured that was three strikes at that point.  And then
I came back to the scene and tried to figure out what
took place here and what we had.
     Q.   Did your brother make it out?
     A.   No.
     Q.   I'm very sorry.
     A.   That's the toughest part.  And that's the
story.
J. PFEIFER
15
     Q.    You answered all the questions.  Is there
anything else you want to add?
     A.   No.
          MR. CASTORINA:  The time now is 9:00
o'clock.  That concludes the interview.  Thank you.
File No. 9110139
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
           CHIEF PETER HAYDEN
   Interview Date:  October 23, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
P. HAYDEN 2
          MR. CASTORINA:  Today is October 23rd,
     2001.  The time now is 0805 hours.  I'm Ron
     Castorina.
          MR. McCOURT:  Tom McCourt.
          MR. CASTORINA:  This is an interview
     with -- your name, sir?
          CHIEF HAYDEN:  Chief Peter Hayden,
     H-A-Y-D-E-N.
          MR. CASTORINA:  This interview is
     taking place on Duane Street at the World
     Trade Center Task Force.
     Q.   Chief, can you tell us on September
11th, 2001, the events that took place that day?
     A.   I was the on-duty deputy chief in the
first division.  I was in my quarters at the time
of the events.  At this point in the event, I
heard a plane passing overhead extremely low.  I
ran to the window to see what I could see.  The
building line obscured my vision, but I did hear
a large impact.  And right away I suspected that
a plane had hit somewhere in lower Manhattan.
          Very quickly thereafter there were
alarms transmitted and a report that a plane had
hit the World Trade Center.
P. HAYDEN 3
          I responded from quarters with my aide.
We responded down Broadway to Canal Street.  We
went west on Canal Street to West Street and
stopped on West Street at number One World Trade
Center, which is the north tower.
          Visible in the sky you could see at
that time a heavy amount of smoke obscuring other
portions of the building.  I really could not see
any indication at that time that a plane had hit
it, but certainly it appeared some catastrophic
event had occurred.
          When I got into the lobby -- or let me
back up a little bit.  I heard the transmission
file to respond.  It was a third alarm
transmitted by Battalion 1 Chief Pfeifer.  He
also established a staging area at West and
Vesey, which is standard procedure.
          He transmitted a 10-60, which is for a
major mishap, such as an airplane crash.  We
brought collapse units and additional units over
for a mobile third alarm assignment.  We asked
for additional rescue also.
          When we responded in, I entered the
lobby.  There were a number of people outside of
P. HAYDEN 4
the building who were burned and in need of
assistance.  There were people jumping from
windows.  It was very chaotic.
          When we entered the lobby, there was a
lot of damage in the lobby, broken glass, tiles
dislodged and laying on the floor, you know, the
decorative panels all around the walls.  But it
was rather calm in the lobby.
          Chief Pfeifer was in control.  We
responded in.  We tried to gain control of the
building systems, meaning the communications
systems, the elevators.  None of the building
systems were working.  The elevators were all out
of service.  The communication lines were not
working.
          The initial orders were to try and get
the elevators in operation.  We met up with the
fire safety director from number One World Trade
Center, Jim Corrigan, who is now deceased, and we
told him of our problems, what we needed to do,
what we needed from them to gain control of the
building systems.  He put his engineers to work
on that.
          We set up the command board and the
P. HAYDEN 5
command post.  As the companies were coming in,
we were giving them assignments based on at that
time, mostly the distress calls.  There were
numerous distress calls coming in from the
dispatcher and also coming in directly to the
lobby of people trapped in elevators, people
burned in different areas of the building, people
needing wheelchairs and unable to get downstairs.
There was one report of a blind woman.  So there
were numerous distress calls and numerous people
in the area in need of assistance.
          We were sending the firefighters up and
giving those assignments as they came in.  As the
units came in -- I guess you want to know what we
saw in the lobby?
Q. Yes.
     A.   It was Chief Pfeifer and his aide, a
number of -- Chief McGovern coming in.  He was in
the 2nd battalion.  I can't necessarily recall
the order of these arrivals and response.  Chief
Ryan also came in.  Chief Palmer came in from 7th
battalion.  And Chief Ryan was in the 4th
battalion.
          They all came in, and they were all
P. HAYDEN 6
given assignments, as were the company officers
and the firefighters.  In the initial stages it
wasn't chaotic.  It was under control, very calm.
Certainly we were very calm.
          Shortly thereafter a number of the
uniformed and civilian staff of the department
arrived in the lobby, Commissioner Von Essen,
Commissioner Fitzpatrick, Commissioner Feehan.
          The tour commander, who was Joseph
Callan arrived on the scene.  I spoke with him
very briefly.  He came in, and I kept him
apprised of what happened thus far.  He asked me
at some point in time if we were thinking of
collapse.  I said yeah, we have to, a plane just
struck the building.  We also said we're pretty
sure this was a terrorist attack.  Everybody
recognized early on that this was an intentional
act.
     Q.   This is after the second hit?
     A.   Yes, this is after, oh, yeah.
          So the potential and reality of -- or
possibility of a collapse was discussed early on.
But we were at a level of commitment.  We also
received numerous distress calls.  We realized we
P. HAYDEN 7
had a lot dying and fire up there.  When the
civilian staff arrived, then Commissioners
Feehan, Fitzpatrick and Commissioner Von Essen,
we discussed strategy and tactics.
          I specifically remember telling
Commissioner Von Essen that we were not
attempting to extinguish this fire.  It's just
strictly a search and rescue operation.  We were
not trying to put this fire out.  We had
thousands of people coming down the stairs, and
that was our focus, to answer as many distress
calls as we could and complete whatever searches
we could.  That was the focus of our strategy
there at the time.
          At one point in time, there were
numerous bodies coming down, and I really lost
track of time there.  There was a discussion that
we had to get out of the lobby.  It was not a
good place to be.
          We talked about setting up the command
post across the street outside the building at
West and Vesey.  I remember saying we can't go
out into the street because of the numerous
bodies that were coming down.  It was actually
P. HAYDEN 8
dangerous to try to enter or exit the building
onto the street.  We said let's go up and cross
the escalator through six and cross the overpass
at West and Vesey and come down and set up a
command post on West and Vesey.  They left the
building to establish a command post over there.
          I heard Chief Ganci on the air at that
time.  At that time the Chief and -- that was in
the lobby.  It was Chief Callan.  He was running
that.  Chief Ganci was over there, and I imagine
Commissioner Feehan and at one time Commissioner
Von Essen.  When they left the building, that was
the last I ever saw of them, although we did have
radio communications with their car 3 about what
was going on.
          There were numerous discussions in the
lobby.  The chief of safety came in.  He
discussed his concern about the collapse.  His
advice to us was to let the building just burn,
you know, get the people down and get out.  We
said that's exactly what we're planning to do.
He said okay, do you want to get some of the
apparatus moved back.  I don't think that was
ever accomplished.
P. HAYDEN 9
          I really didn't get involved with that
because early on we realized that a number of the
companies were coming in and were not reporting
to any staging area we established.  So we were
losing some control of the companies coming in.
          There was also some communication
problems later on with companies coming in,
units responding to the second alarm after the
other plane hit.  They weren't sure which was
World Trade Center One and World Trade Center
Two.  So that became confusing.
          Of course off-duty members were coming
in, and they were reporting directly upstairs.
So at one point in time -- I want to say that
Chief McGovern was still in the lobby -- we had
to account for everybody that was going upstairs.
It became a critical issue.
          We discussed with Chief Downey the
operations, and that continued for a while.  We
were making a concerted effort to get the
elevators down and answering all the distress
calls.  We were working with the engineers.
          We were working the intercom in the
lobby between the elevators, trying to get an
P. HAYDEN 10
idea what floors they were on.  The engineers
told us we have people on this floor, that floor,
66th floor, 71st floor, stuck in the elevators.
We answered as many of the distress calls as we
could.
          We concentrated on trying to get some
type of hand line hardware communications.  We
attempted the repeater system.  The repeater
system was not in service.  The repeater system
wasn't working.  So we were at a distinct
disadvantage because we had none of the building
systems to work with.
          (Interruption by FF.)
     A.   Where was I?
     Q.   Communications problems.
     A.   Throughout, of course, there were
communication problems.  All we had to rely on
was handy talky communications.  Once you go up
several floors in the towers there, you have poor
handy talky communications, and that's all we
had.
          At some point in time -- you know, we
continued with the evacuations, thousands of
people coming down the stairs, answering the
P. HAYDEN 11
distress calls, making assignments to the
companies as they would come in, whoever reported
into the lobby command post.
          Then at some point in time we were told
there was another event.  We were in the lobby of
the north tower.  We weren't sure exactly what it
was.  We were told another plane hit the south
tower.
          Shortly thereafter we met in a little
conference, myself, Chief Callan and Chief
Pfeifer.  Shortly after that discussion, we
started to evacuate the north tower.  We started
telling everybody come on down.  That was
repeated a number of times.  However, we didn't
get a lot of acknowledgment off of the handy
talky communications.
          The latest report -- the last report we
had from anybody at all was that there were
people that were heading up around the 48th
floor.  That was several minutes prior to this
collapse.  So we had people as high as the 50th
floor while we had communications.  I think
that's about as far up as anybody got.
          We were calling people down on a number
P. HAYDEN 12
of occasions, but we weren't getting -- except
for the lower floors, companies coming down, they
weren't coming down.  They were being directed
north.
          In the lobby at that time were a number
of the Port Authority people and a couple of Port
Authority cops.  Members of Ladder Company 20, I
remember were standing by.  I remember remnants
of the hazmat unit standing by and off-duty
members coming in.  We had them standing by
there.
          Companies there, I don't really
recollect what exactly the companies were in the
lobby area there.  We lost the board after the
collapse, so we couldn't go over the assignments.
          My aide was there and Battalion 18 was
there.  Chief Karletta was there.  So there was
about at one point at least a dozen people in the
lobby there.  Some of them even left.  Father
Judge was in the lobby.
          Then suddenly the -- we didn't know
what it was.  We found out afterwards.  There was
a violent impact and the south tower collapsed
while we were in the lobby of one.  There was a
P. HAYDEN 13
tremendous dust cloud and debris field thrown at
us.
          I was told that later on by the Port
Authority people I met and we really couldn't
see.  It was pitch-black in the lobby after that.
We gave an order to evacuate the building.
Everybody in the north tower was ordered out.
          We found Father Judge, who was dead.
We moved out of the lobby.  We went up the
escalator to the -- I guess that's the concourse
level up there, worked our way through six,
around the outer part of six.  Then we proceeded
down a stairway and escalator down into the --
this is on the Vesey Street side.  We proceeded
down to the street level.  We were at West
Broadway and Vesey.
          We turned father Judge over to EMS.
Then we proceeded south on Vesey towards West
Street to find a command post.  When I arrived at
West and Vesey, I met up with a number of chiefs.
There was Chief Stack, who is now deceased or
among the missing, Chief O'Flaherty and Chief
Cassano who I ended up talking with.  We
discussed some issues there.
P. HAYDEN 14
          We directed everybody north.  Then
Chief Cassano and I started to go south, looking
for the command post.  We were just north of the
north bridge overpass when the second building
came down.  I crawled under a fire truck, a fire
pumper.  I'm pretty sure it was a pumper.  I'm
not sure which one it was.  To this day I don't
know.
          I just had my helmet off and just laid
down underneath that.  I was told later that
Chief Cassano did the same thing.  After the
second building collapsed and the dust settled, I
came out, and I'm here talking to you.
          That's about as much as I can give you.
If you want specifics, I'll try to answer
questions.
     Q.   That's fine.
     A.   Like I said, I don't remember -- I'm
sure you probably saw a tape floating around.
Did you see a tape floating around?
     Q.   Which tape?
     A.   A tape going around regarding the fire?
     Q.   A videotape of it?
     A.   Yeah.
Q. No.
P. HAYDEN 15
     A.   If you see that, that might be able to
help you out.  You know, showing the plane
hitting the building.
     Q.   (Inaudible.)
     A.   As far as recollection of actually, the
chiefs I remember more so than the firefighters
that were assigned from the command board.  Chief
McGovern and Chief Ryan were there.  Chief
Cassano was another one and Chief Barbara.
          Chief Burns was in the lobby also.  I
remember after the first strike we were talking.
After the second plane hit, we conferred.  It was
Chief Callan, myself, Chief Pfeifer, Chief Burns
and Chief Palmer.  Over what handy talky
frequencies we were to use so that we didn't
interfere with each other's communications
because he was going over to handle the south
tower.
Q. Where?
     A.   They went over to the south tower,
Chief Burns and Chief Palmer.  So we worked out
who was going to be on what frequencies so we
wouldn't interfere.
P. HAYDEN 16
     Q.   What frequency were you on?
A. IthinkIwoundupon1and6. Iwas the primary tactical and 6 was the command channel. I can't be sure what they went to, but they went to other channels as a tactical or primary. It was because Chief Burns brought up the issue that the last time we had the terrorist attack there, they had trouble with communications. I remember that discussion.
          And they took off for the south tower.
That was the last time I saw them.
     Q.   Did you see Chief Ganci or Commissioner
Feehan?
     A.   I never saw Chief Ganci there, in the
lobby.  I heard him on the radio.  Commissioner
Feehan was there.  In fact, I discussed a number
of the issues that were going on at the time with
Chief Feehan, Commissioner Von Essen and
Commissioner Fitzpatrick.  Commissioner Feehan,
Fitzpatrick, Deputy Commissioner Tierney were
there.  Ray Goldbach, their exec, he was in the
lobby.  OEM representatives Kevin Cully was
there.  He was alive.  Richie Schirer was in the
lobby.  Who else?  There were a lot of people.
P. HAYDEN 17
     Q.   Anybody else?
     A.   Well, a lot of people I guess should
not have been in the lobby, in retrospect.  You
know putting all your eggs in one basket is
another issue.
          There was awareness there that
certainly this was a serious operation.
Certainly the awareness was there of the
possibility of collapse.
     Q.   Chief Downey, was he there?
     A.   Yes, Chief Downey was there, sure.  In
fact he was there relatively late into the
operation in the lobby.  I don't know where -- he
was there earlier on and then left and came back.
So he was in the lobby there.  I assume at one
point from conversation that he was going to the
command post.
          Once we talked about establishing the
command post on West and Vesey with Commissioner
Von Essen, Commissioner Fitzpatrick, Commissioner
Feehan and Chief Downey.  I was under the
impression they all left and went over there.
Obviously Commissioner Von Essen did go there
when he was with Chief Feehan.  I was told that
P. HAYDEN 18
on the way over there Commissioner Von Essen was
there and was interrupted by the Mayor.  They
went off in another direction, very fortuitously
getting out of harm's way there.
          If you have any questions, I'll be
happy to answer them.
     Q.   No, Tom -- no, that's it.
          MR. CASTORINA:  The time now is 8:25.
     This concludes the interview.
File No. 9110140
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER THOMAS GABY
   Interview Date:  October 23, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
T. GABY
2
          MR. TAMBASCO:  Today is October 23rd.  The
time is 10:16.  I'm Mike Tambasco assigned to the World
Trade Center Task Force.  We're doing an interview into
the events of September 11th at the World Trade Center
and our interview today is with...
          FIREFIGHTER GABY:  Tom Gaby, aide to Chief
Cassano, Firefighter First Grade.
     Q.   Would you be good enough, Tom?
     A.   Okay.  Prior to the date of 9/11, on 9/10, I
worked as an aide to Chief Burns on an overtime tour.
The morning of 9/11, I was having coffee right outside
Chief Ganci's office, speaking to the secretary, Lisa
DeFazio.  Chief Ganci came out of his office and yelled
out that a plane had struck the World Trade towers and
that Chief Nigro should look out his window.  With that
Chief Burns, standing by the commissary kitchen, said
come on, Tom, let's go, and we were off.
          We went down the elevator with most of the
staff Chiefs, Chief Barbara, myself, Chief Ganci, Chief
Ingram, Chief Burns, and we went down to the C1 level.
We got in our cars and proceeded to the Brooklyn Bridge
heading towards the World Trade Center.  I believe and
I'm pretty sure I was the first staff car in line.
Chief Ganci was driving with Chief Nigro.  Steve
T. GABY
3
Mosiello was driving both of them.
          As we were going over the bridge, Chief Burns
said to me, it doesn't look like the sprinkler system
is working too well and kind of jokingly said that to
me.  I said, yes, I guess maybe it's too much fire, and
we kind of laughed about it and proceeded to go over
the bridge.  As we approached the World Trade Center,
we got there pretty fast.  I don't think there were
that many companies there at that time.
          I pulled up as far as I could under the north
bridge in front of 1 World Trade Center.  I believe
that was the north tower.  With that I opened the trunk
for Chief Burns.  He proceeded to get his gear out and
I -- well, basically he said to me, his last words to
me were, Tommy, I don't want to get stuck here.  Park
the car far away.  With that I took the car and made a
U-turn and headed north on West Street.  I parked the
car on Chambers, on the corner of Chambers and West.
          Looking back towards the scene as I was
leaving, I wanted to see if I could find Chief
Cassano's car because my turnout gear was in his car
because I normally drive Chief Cassano.  I proceeded
heading towards Chief Cassano's car, walking back
towards Chief Cassano's car, and Chief Ingram grabbed
T. GABY
4
me and told me he wanted me to alert Field Com with
setup in front of I think the Financial Building, on
the West Street side, World Financial Center.
     Q.   The Merrill Lynch Building?
     A.   Right.  The Merrill Lynch Building.  That's
where our command center was for the outside.
Basically, that's what I did for a few minutes, even
before I went and got my gear.  I proceeded to look for
the car again and then, spotting it, I came upon Chief
Callan's aide.
     Q.   Who was that?
     A.   James Migalia.  He came up to me and said he
had no gear in his car; could he use my gear.  I told
him, here, take my gear, the key for the car was in the
gas cap, there was a spare key, and I would get
something else.  With that Chief Ganci was yelling at
me to get the rigs out of West Street, on the West
Street promenade.  In other words, he wanted all the
rigs cleared out of the area.  I ran back and forth a
few times doing that and then left to get my gear.
          Actually, what I did was I went up back to
Chief Burns' car and took Kevin Glock's gear, which is
Chief Burns' normal driver.  His helmet doesn't fit me,
but I had it.  So I got his turnout coat and just his
T. GABY
5
helmet.  I took the -- which I had the radio on, I also
took the cell phone with me, headed back towards the
command center outside, and believe it or not,
somewhere in between there the plane had hit, the
second plane.
     Q.   The second plane?
     A.   I saw it coming in, I heard it, and bang, it
hit.  I proceeded to try to call my wife to tell her to
stay home on the cell phone.  It didn't work.  I went
into I believe the American Express Building and called
her from there.  I left a message at work for her to go
home if she could, and then I went back towards the
command board.  I didn't know exactly where Chief Burns
was, but watching all the outside activities going on,
I was trying to get a feel for where he would be.  I
looked at the board and it was kind of like in disarray
at this time.  So, basically, I was just trying to help
out and see if I could listen.
          At some point I was able to ascertain that I
think Chief Burns said that he was in 2 World Trade
Center, the south tower, and I said, well, let me see
if I can make my way down there.  So I walked along the
buildings on West Street, on the west side of West
Street, because people were jumping and the stuff was
T. GABY
6
falling out of all the buildings.
          At that point I saw the bridge.  I went under
the pedestrian bridge to cover myself and I made kind
of a dash for the Vista International Hotel.  I
couldn't tell what time it was.  Like I said, this
thing here, it seemed like it was just minutes, but I
guess it was longer than that.
          When I got into the Vista, I was looking to
see if I could find somebody who knew exactly where
Chief Burns was.  So I went up to the Chief that was in
the lobby of the Vista, which is, I guess, the
Marriott, and I asked Chief Galvin if he had seen Chief
Burns, and he said he did not see him, but he said that
he might be in the south tower.  So I said okay.
          Having gone in through the side of the Vista,
I noticed that there was a restaurant there and I felt
this would be a good time for me to take a leak, and I
just happened to go into that restaurant because I knew
it was going to be a long time before I got a shot at
it, and I was up since 7:00 o'clock.  So I figured let
me go now, I'll have a shot, and then I can go see
Chief Burns, figuring that once I got inside, I was
safe, to be honest with you.  That was my primary thing
was to get inside.  Having spotted the restaurant, like
T. GABY
7
I said, I knew if I'd walk into the restaurant there
would be a rest room there.
          I walked into the rest room, went to the
bathroom and was just about ready to come out and I
heard a rumbling sound.  Now, having heard on the radio
previously that there was a possibility that the
elevators were letting go, I was hoping that that was
what it was.  As it proceeded, which seemed like a long
time, but I'm sure it wasn't -- when I look at it on
television, it doesn't seem to be -- I could tell that
it was much worse.  In my mind, I thought it was the
north tower, part of it was coming down, and I felt
like let me sit down, get low.  I might be okay here.
As it turned out, after the roar, I had absolutely no
damage in that bathroom.  There was no damage, there
was no smoke, it just was black as night.
          I initially tried to get out and the door was
jammed.  I couldn't tell how it was jammed or why it
was jammed.  I had no flashlight.  I didn't have my
turnout coat, so there was no flashlight in there.  I
proceeded to give Maydays on every channel.  I had the
mobile radio, so I had every channel.  I heard
absolutely nothing.  It was completely dead.  I started
to think that maybe I'd be okay there for a while
T. GABY
8
because I could breathe, there was no fire, and I
didn't seem to be hurt in any way.  So I felt, well, at
least I'm okay at this point.  But the silence, the
eeriness of having no mobile communication with
anything made me feel a little uneasy.  So I felt,
well, maybe what I should do is try to get out of
here.  I eventually forced the door open.  Just by
banging it and pulling hard, it opened in, and not
being able to see, I kind of just walked into what was
like a wall.
     Q.   That wasn't there when you came in?
     A.   That wasn't there when I came in.  So then I
started to get a little nervous and I said let me sit
down and calm down.  I gave Maydays again on all the
radio channels and I heard nothing.  At this point I
tried to use the cell phone that I had and there was no
cell phone.  That was probably the only light I could
see.  I really couldn't see much.  I was a little bit
nervous but basically still not aware of really the
gravity of the situation.  So what I thought was, well,
you know what?  Let me sit down and calm myself down,
and then I thought, well, you know, I'd be better off
if I could get out of here.
          So I opened the door again and felt for a way
T. GABY
9
I could get out and somehow, through whatever divine
force there was, there was a void low in the left-hand
corner.  I wasn't able to get out with my helmet on or
my turnout coat, but I could fit through that crack.
So what I did was I took the helmet and I pushed it
ahead of me.  There was all sorts of debris and stuff
there, but it seemed to be moving.  So I said, well,
I'll go as far as I can.  Maybe I can just see a light
or whatever or yell to someone, and luckily I just was
able to push it far enough that I could see that there
was an opening all the way down.
          I got maybe six feet and I could see to my
left the entrance to the restaurant was still in good
shape.  Although covered with everything, I still could
see.  So I said I know I'm getting out of here now
because I could see daylight, and I said, okay, and I
just kept pushing ahead.  It didn't take that long,
maybe five or six minutes, and I was able to get to the
point where I could stand up in that area of the
restaurant.
          I put my turnout gear back on and I proceeded
to run outside, and I couldn't make heads or tails of
what was going on because it was still smoky, kind of
like a dense little fog kind of thing.  There was a guy
T. GABY
10
from rescue out in the street yelling to people to keep
running, and it was all rubble all over the ground, a
couple bodies and stuff like that.  So I immediately
just tried to run.  I tripped a little bit, he held me,
and then I ran across the street.  Believe it or not, I
ran across the street and I was looking for everybody
and it didn't seem like I could find anybody.  It was
kind of eerie.  It was almost like I was the only
person around.
          My immediate thought was let me call my wife,
and I tried to call her to see if she went home, but I
couldn't get her, but I left another message telling
her -- and I listened to it later on at some point.  I
forgot I called her back up.  But she saved the
messages.  I said I was a little dusty but I was okay.
          So with that I heard on the radio for the
first time a voice and it was Chief Ganci talking to
Steve asking for truck companies.  So I felt, oh, okay,
I'm back in the game here.  There's somebody around.
But I still couldn't find anybody.  I looked for Chief
Ganci and I don't know -- some people say that I was on
the south.  I thought I headed north, but maybe I got
turned around.  Anyhow, I wound up talking to Chief
Galvin again in the middle of the street, on West
T. GABY
11
Street, someplace on West Street, and with that I said
to Chief Galvin, I don't know if anybody else is
around, but I'll stay with you because, you know, this
way I'll know I'm helping somebody.
          So he yelled to me to get the guys from
across the street.  There were car fires all over the
place.  He said get those guys and bring them over
here.  So I started getting guys who were trying to put
out car fires to come across the street.  Apparently
Chief Galvin must have known about the other building.
I had no idea that the first building was down to be
honest with you.  Because I couldn't tell.  You still
couldn't see it.
          So basically I just told the guys come across
the street, and guys were like stretching lines, I was
trying to help a couple of guys that were hooking up
the hydrants, I was yelling to them, come on, the Chief
wants us over here, and what seemed like maybe ten
minutes or whatever of trying to get the guys across
the street, which we got most of them across the
street, I heard a tremendous roar like I've never heard
before and it sounded like a jet engine was like right
over my head, like I was on a runway with a jet engine
just taking off over my head.
T. GABY
12
          At that point I kind of looked up in the air
because that's where -- and I was looking for a plane.
I couldn't see anything, but I saw people running.  So
I said, well, this may be a good time to start
running.  I wasn't sure which way to run, but I watched
them run and I kind of went to my right and I started
running, and then there was a complete -- a blanket
over me and I banged and fell down three or four times,
and each time I got up, I got up with more stuff in my
mouth and it was becoming more increasingly difficult
to breathe.  I was trying to breathe through like the
jacket part of my coat and just try to filter some of
the crap that was coming in my mouth.  I heard somebody
yell breathe through your nose and I was trying that,
but I wasn't getting enough air it didn't seem like.
Now I wasn't running anymore.  I fell down three or
four times.  I said, well, I can't even see.  This is
ridiculous to run.  But I felt, well, you know what?
Maybe I'll just kind of walk and try to head in the
direction of the sounds of people that I heard.
          There was an ESU cop and he had some kind of
water bottle on his back with a bite ball, and he came
up to me and said bite into this, flush around your
mouth and spit it out, and that's what I did, and I was
T. GABY
13
able to at that point clear out some of the crap in my
mouth and I felt a little bit better.  He had a towel
or something and he said we'll share the towel and
we'll start breathing, and at that point that's what I
did.  I started breathing through the towel with this
guy.  There was like three of us on this towel.
          We got up to -- I don't know what street
even.  Somebody told me it was down on the west side by
Albany Street and there was a hydrant open with very
little water pressure and we kind of cleaned off
there.  Chief Lakiotes was there, a couple other
firefighters and a couple other ESU cops and stuff.
But we just kind of cleaned up, and at that point I
started heading back to where I thought maybe people
would be.
          Guys were coming in from -- I guess from all
over at this point now.  I saw regiments of guys coming
down the highway, and even training, they were coming
from training, because I noticed a couple Chiefs,
Santangelo and Chief Idiart from training that I've
known and I saw them and they all started heading down
towards the buildings, and at that point I somehow ran
into Steve Mosiello again and he was looking for Chief
Ganci.  So I said, well, I'll help you look for Chief
T. GABY
14
Ganci because I knew that, you know, that was his boss
and, if I could find him, maybe we could find out
what's going on, still not really knowing.
          I felt kind of like, I don't know, but I
wasn't being really aware of what was going on, but I
was very lucky.  It's bizarre, but through no really
desire of my own, I was able to survive this thing, and
it really -- it was just a matter of where you were.
     Q.   Basic dumb luck.
     A.   Dumb luck.  Really basic dumb luck.  Because
the odds would be, even after the first building came
down, I wasn't aware of it, and when the second one
come down, I wasn't even thinking about that one coming
down.  So, I mean, it sounds crazy, but at this point I
was just trying to hook up with somebody during this
whole thing to help, you know, to get back into some
kind of order of where we could find guys and do
things, and it just never seemed to come about.
          I went with Steve.  We looked for Chief
Ganci.  He was very upset.  Then we heard the command
center was all the way up on Vesey Street.  Then we
went up that way and then it was like further north
towards the park and we started heading up there, and
we got a ride with the Commissioner's driver and we
T. GABY
15
wound up with the Mayor up in 23rd Street by -- I guess
that was where they made the command center for OEM.
Q. Right.
     A.   Steve wanted to tell the Mayor that Chief
Ganci was missing and that we lost a lot of guys, and
that was basically what we did.  Then we went back, we
hitched a ride back to Police Plaza to tell the Police
Commissioner exactly what was going on, and we wound up
getting some clean clothes there.  They gave us police
uniforms.  So we wound up there and then they took us
back towards the scene and we looked for Chief Ganci.
          As we were going back down the West Side
Highway, Chief Cruthers, we wound up seeing Chief
Cruthers and Chief Butler, he was at the command board
at Vesey and West, at Chambers and West rather, and
then they said they found Ganci and Steve started
running towards where -- Steve knew basically where
Ganci was, and what I failed to say is, when we found
Steve, when I found Steve, we actually went back to
look for Ganci before we went up to the command center.
     Q.   Okay.   From where he had last figured he
probably was?
     A.   Yes.  Because Steve had an idea because when
he had talked to Steve on the radio, he had said that
T. GABY
16
he was going to be -- I didn't know what he had told
Steve, but I heard him ask for truck companies, and he
must have told Steve that he was going to be south of
where the command center was, and when I came out of
the building, that was my first thing was to look for
the command center, I remember that, and basically,
when I saw where I thought the command center was
outside, where the command board was, there was an
airplane tire.  My immediate thing was that another
plane had hit.  So that's what I said.
          Then I went into what was, I guess, the World
Trade Center -- the World Financial Center and Merrill
Lynch and I made a phone call to my wife again.  That's
where I had left the message.  So that's basically
where I was at that point, and then I did hook up with
Steve and we did go back to look at right around in
that building there.  He knew where Ganci was, but he
was covered with rubble, I believe.
          Army was there at that point, too.  I don't
know how much after, but there was Army there.  That
was after the second building I remember.  The Army was
there because Steve told a general that this is what
happened, this is where our Chief of Department was,
and they had a couple of bulldozers going there
already.
     Q.   Already?
T. GABY
17
     A.   Yes.  There were a couple of bulldozers going
there.  So, basically, I guess, wherever they got them
from, they started picking up some of the rubble.
Basically, that was all I can remember.  It's kind of
strange, but I saw the second plane coming in.  I
remember that vividly.  I remember hearing it and
thinking why is that plane coming so close to that
building after it got hit, but thinking maybe it was an
Army plane or just a plane coming in to observe what
was going on, and then when it hit the building, to be
honest with you, from where I was standing on the west
side of West Street, it looked like it kind of glanced
off the back of the building.  You couldn't tell the
damage it had done.
          So, I mean, that was my recollection of that
and, you're right, I mean, some of the things seemed
like they took a couple of minutes, but other things
seemed like they took a long time.  Basically, that was
it.  I mean, I guess being very lucky was in it for me
that day.  One more minute and I'm probably in 2 World
Trade Center.  The weird thing was, like I said, it
wasn't like I had a pressing need to go to the
T. GABY
18
bathroom, but I just thought that eventually I was
going to have to go.
     Q.   So it would be smart to do it now.
     A.   To do it now.  Chief Cassano had told me he
had done the same thing.  He had gone to the bathroom
just previous to that.  So it was weird because we both
picked the same bathroom to go to and just a series of
events that happened that I just happened to be in
there and that was -- believe me.  I go back there, a
couple times that I've been back there, I look at it,
and it's amazing to me how nothing happened in that
bathroom.  That bathroom was perfectly intact.  So when
people say things were meant to happen, I just think --
     Q.   It's your day or it's not your day?
     A.   Yes.  It's absolutely true, I mean, and never
more vividly than that day.  I wish I could say I
was -- I guess the only good thing I did out of this
whole thing was being able to extricate myself because
I felt that, you know what?  I could be here for a
couple of days and that was an uneasy feeling.  So I
figured let me try to get out of here.  But like I
said, I was completely okay.  There was no heat, no
fire, no smoke, my body was okay.  It was just that I
felt uncomfortable being in this kind of like this
T. GABY
19
six-by-six-foot room.
          That's it.  I don't know what else I could
say.  If I could answer any questions, I'll definitely
do it.
     Q.   No, there's nothing else that I need to ask
you.  That's it.  If there's anything else you just
want to put after this, feel free.
     A.   Actually, basically, I think that most of the
things that I said were just off the top of my head
because that's all I can remember, but if I could
remember any more, I would definitely give it to you.
Except I'm very lucky.  Thank you very much.
          MR. TAMBASCO:  That being the case, this
interview will conclude at 10:40 a.m.

File No. 9110141
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIRE MARSHAL STEVEN MOSIELLO
Interview Date: October 23, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins

S. MOSIELLO
MR. McALLISTER: This is Kevin McAllister from the Bureau of Administration. It'sOctober23rd,2001,
1134 hours. We're with Steven Mosiello. And I'm also joined by - -
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: Assistant Commissioner James Drury.
Q. Steven, we'd like to just draw your
attention to September the 11th and ask you to provide us with any recollections you may have of the World Trade Center attack.
A. At approximately 8:45 that morning, maybe 8:50, I heard Chief Ganci, whose offices are three offices away down the hall, call out to Dan Nigro that a plane just hit the World Trade Center. He was looking out of his window at the time. We all jumped up, ran to Chief Ganci's office, myself, Chief Nigro, and we looked out the window. And the World Trade Center was on
fire.
At that point the Chief said a plane just hit it, and we responded. It was myself, Chief Ganci and Chief Nigro in the car, and we responded over to the World Trade Center. While

S. MOSIELLO 3
we were on the Brooklyn Bridge, some five minutes later or so, Chief Ganci gave a fifth alarm for the World Trade Center due to the amount of fire and smoke we saw from our position on the Brooklyn Bridge. We were on the center of the bridge at the time, I remember. Chief Nigro said to Chief Ganci that it's probably going to be one of the worst days of our career.
With that we responded in. I believe I went down Chambers Street and wheeled my way in to where we parked. We parked on the corner of West and Vesey on the sidewalk. I gave Chief Ganci his gear. I took my gear. And we were setting up a command post, I believe it was in the street at that point, and somebody said - - I don't know who it was - - go over here by those two garages, where we eventually wound up setting up our command post in front of Two World Financial.
Somebody mentioned - - I don't recall who - - that this is our area of refuge should something happen, meaning the two garages, which during the course of the day did wind up being our first area of refuge when tower number two

S. MOSIELLO
collapsed.
Q. Excuse me, at that time were the garage
doors up when you were in the sloping driveway? Is that where the command post was?
A. They, yes were. Looking at the buildings, both garage doors were up. We were set up, looking at the building, to the garage on the left, which would be the south garage. And on the north garage there was a red van from communications. I believe it was where their communications vehicle set up.
Q. How many planes had hit at this point in time?
A. At this point there was only one plane. I was told by somebody that we had an eyewitness who happened to be an off-duty firefighter who told me that he saw the first building get hit and it was hit by a prop jet, which I think turned out to be the wrong information, but everybody sees things differently. But he said he was an eyewitness. I gave him to a fire marshal. I never got his name personally.
At that point we were set. This was our command post, and everybody was stopping in

S. MOSIELLO
before they went to locations. You saw so many faces of guys that are dead today that were going into these buildings. They'd stopped by, how you doing, where do you want me to go, they went to their location and they went to work.
At that point we're standing there - - I remember a gentleman who worked in number One World Trade, a maintenance worker, who was talking to Chief Ganci, and asking him if he wanted to go into the building to check and see what pumps were working and how high the water was being pumped in the building, and I don't recall what the outcome of that was. I believe Chief Ganci sent a company in with him to go check these pumps. I don't remember what the company number was or anything else.
At that point the Mayor shows up. I was standing away from the command post, and the Mayor showed up. And one of his aides asked where the Fire Commissioner was. I remember the Mayor being with Commissioner Kerik and himself and a lot of their aides and escorts or whatever. Somebody said the Commissioner was in One World Trade Center, north tower, that was hit already.

S. MOSIELLO
I said go up and get him. What was I thinking all the jumpers and everything else.
I believe at that point when I went over to get the Commissioner, that's when the fireman of 216 was killed by a jumper when a jumper landed on him.
I went to the building, looked for the Commissioner, and they said he had just left. So now we've crossed each other's paths. I came back to the command post across the street at Two World Financial, and the Commissioner was there talking to the Mayor.
Q. Can you describe what the plaza and the area outside looked like at that point in time? A. Outside number One World Trade, there were jumpers. There was a tremendous amount of
bodies on the ground. They were hitting at a rate of probably one every 30 or 40 seconds onto the glass atrium that was there, which is a distinct explosion-type sound when they hit, as was - - I think you can close your eyes and you knew when a jumper hit the ground over there. It was very distinct.
After you saw enough of them, you just

S. MOSIELLO
stopped looking. You knew what it was. I think this is a quote from somebody else: If it stayed the jumpers and the fire in number one, then there would have been a real bad day, not worse.
Q. Stopping and stepping back for a second. You were driving I assume on Vesey to the corner of West. Did you see any debris or anything in the street at that point?
A. Idon'trecall -- andIdon'tknowifI cameinonVesey. IbelieveIcameChambers
to - - no, I came over the Brooklyn Bridge. I came past City Hall, wheeled my way through I think that first street there - - I think if you make a left at Broadway going straight across may be Park. I'm not sure. We wheeled in in that way. And I came down maybe a street or two north of Vesey, and then we got in. I don't recall if I came down Vesey Street. I draw a blank on that.
Q. You left off with the statement about if it was left with just the jumpers and that one tower.
A. At that point I don't know exactly when the Commissioner and Mayor had left. It was

S. MOSIELLO
pretty soon after they had left that Richie Zarillo, who works with EMS - - I believe he's an OEM liaison - - came running up to me. I was not on the ramp at this time. I was like almost at the sidewalk location.
He said Steve, where's the Chief? I have to tell him, you know - - I said tell him what, Richie? These buildings are in imminent danger of collapse. I said how do you know that, you know? So he ran with me. I ran over and grabbed Chief Ganci and said Chief, these
buildings
looked up
Q.
are in imminent danger of collapse. He at me - -
Had the second plane hit at this point? Yes, yes, the second plane hit. We saw
A.
the second plane hit - - if you want me to go back to when the second plane hit. I was told by Chief Ingram, who was a terrorist and hazmat-type guy, that we've got to be careful of secondary explosions or secondary devices. Who knew that the secondary device would be another plane.
People actually saw the plane. You heard it, the closer it got. It just got louder and louder. I say that he throttled up as fast

S. MOSIELLO
as he could. That's what it sounded like, but I think he became more in earshot of us. And he just came in and put the plane into the building.
As I'm looking up at this stuff that's going on up there now, I just like - - I'm saying to myself I've seen this in a movie. My whole recollection is going back to a movie or something I saw. I just saw this before. It's like before my eyes. I don't know if I ever did or didn't, you know, in a dream.
Then at that point within a few minutes, Richie Zarillo came up to me. I'll go back to that. He said that these buildings are in imminent danger of collapse. I went right up to the Chief because I was a few steps away. I said Chief, these buildings are in imminent danger of collapse. And he said to me who would would tell you something like that?
And he looked at me and he had that determined - - I have to say probably scared look on his face, who would tell you something like that. I said Richie, come over here and tell the Chief what you just told me. He got the words outofhismouth. Ithinkitwasmaybe25,30

S . MOSIELLO
seconds later, maybe, the building came down.
Q. Did Zarillo ever say what he based that
opinion on?
A. I believe the Chief said where did he
get that from? He said from OEM. We were trying to determine exactly how he got it. In retrospect, how did he get i t ? He was walking towards us. Was he coming towards us anyway and he got it over his radio? I think he told me he got it from Peruggia. There was like a relay type of thing, which maybe we should have and didn't have our OEM radios on at the location. There was a l o t of havoc going on.
I believe you were there, Jim, and you saw it also.
So at that point the building comes down. I believe Chief Ganci said what the hell's this or what the fuck is this, looked up, and then we all just bailed out simultaneously into garages. I don't remember who went into the left garage and who went into the right garage.
I remember going into the north garage, which was on my right. There was a booth, if I remember correctly, between the two garage ramps.

S . MOSIELLO
I went behind the booth and into the garage. There was a lot of people in there. We wound up running into the garage, running to the right, and it dead-ended where there was like storage space behind doors, behind locked doors.
Q. Do you remember seeing Commissioner Fitzpatrick at that time?
A. No,Idon't.
Q. He also went down there?
A. There were so many guys I saw. One guy
I distinctly remember is Mike Donovan. We were all searching for a staircase or some way out for tools. I think a few people screamed for tools: Who's got tools, who's got tools. They found a staircase that led out.
At this point you're being choked out, totally choked out. I thought we were going to die in there because we couldn't breathe. There were low ceilings. Nothing was lifting. The dust wasn't lifting. It came in and just stayed.
Q. Stepping back for a minute, Steve. Had you seen Chief Feehan and Chief Downey a t t h a t location moments before the collapse?
A. Yes, yes. I recall seeing Chief Downey

S . MOSIELLO
I believe before the second plane hit. He was talking to Chief Ganci. I believe the firefighter already had gotten struck by a
jumper, and Ray Downey was telling the Chief that he'd like to start bringing companies over via the north walking bridge and that that would be a safer avenue to get into the building.
Q. So this is after the first building came down, they were still planning --
A. No, no, this was before the first collapse, before any buildings collapsed.
Q. After the second plane hit, but before the first building collapsed?
A. Y es.
Q. Gotit.
That firefighter, by the way, just for the record, i s firefighter Suhr, S-U-H-R, who was hit by a jumper.
A. Right.
I was on my way out of that building
when he was h i t by a jumper. There was a company coming. I don't know the company. They were walking next to the building, and I yelled at the lieutenant to get in the street with his men

S. MOSIELLO
because look what just happened. There were jumpers coming down. He probably wasn't very aware of it at the time. Probably like everybody else he was scared and he wasn't thinking either.
Q. So you are in the garage now and there's no air and the dust is in there and you're trying to find a way out?
A. Yes. I was checking some doors, and I heard somebody yell hey, Steve, we found the staircase. I got to the staircase and there was a lieutenant there named Mike Donovan who worked for us up here that day, and he said we found a staircase. And Mike said I want you guys to start getting out and I'm going to stay here until everybody's out of the garage. I remember that. I have a book at home. I wrote his name down, what he did. I thought that was quite heroic that he wouldn't leave that location.
Most of us from headquarters - - nobody had masks. The only people who had masks then were possibly companies standing by waiting to be assigned, which at that point I don't think we had that many, because the second tower - - the first collapse was the second tower, so we were

S. MOSIELLO
putting as many men to work as possible.
At that point I recall going up the staircase, turning a few ways and we wound up
back on West Street, I think just north of the north walking bridge we came out. At that point I saw Chief Ganci, Commissioner Feehan. I don't recall if I saw Fitz at that point, Commissioner Fitzpatrick. I saw Tommy McDonald limping. Tommy was walking with us.
Commissioner Feehan had kind of a limp to him, and I was standing on his right side. So with my left hand I went to grab his right elbow just to help him along. Arrogantly, the way he was, he pulled his arm and said I don't need any help, Steve. Thank you anyway.
We walked up to the corner. Chief Ganci said he wanted to move a command post and staging area as far north as possible.
Q. You said the corner. Is that the corner of Vesey and West?
A. Yes, Vesey and West.
I don't know if we all just realized
exactly what happened or were confused. Glad to be alive, probably. I think maybe something

S . MOSIELLO 1 5
clicked in Chief Ganci's head at that point that he had men in that other building and he knew that, and he started walking in that direction with Commissioner Feehan. I said Chief, where are you going? He said Steve, I'm going to take a walk down here. Go get me two trucks.
I went to -- I believe our staging area was around Barclay. I ' m not exactly sure. I remember t h e Chief I spoke t o was a Chief Mike Keenan from 46 Battalion.
Q. Barclay and West? A. Y es.
We were on West Street then. And I asked this Chief Keenan for two trucks. He said okay, Steve, I'll go get them for you.
At that point Chief Ganci called me back on the radio and he must have seen something because he said Steve, I want two of my best trucks, rescue squads, two of my best trucks. He must have gotten to where he was going or in that direction and he saw something, possibly people who needed some kind of help.
Q. Can I ask, when you last saw them were they back near the Two World Financial Center

S . MOSIELLO 1 6
garages where you had initially set up or were they farther down?
A. When they left me, we were all on the west side of the north walking bridge. That's where we separated. They went south. I went north to get the trucks.
Q. By the way, did you notice on West Street, either before the first collapse or after the first collapse when you came back around, the number of rigs that were on West Street?
A. There were a tremendous amount of rigs, because I believe those rigs saved my l i f e during the second collapse. A tremendous amount of
rigs.
On my way after I asked for the two trucks, I saw a fellow I rode up with and who I worked with years ago. His name was Lieutenant Wilkinson with 238. He was obviously i n the first collapse because -- he was right near a fire truck. I don't know what fire truck it was. But he was obviously in the first collapse because I believe he had dust and stuff all over him. We talked, how are you doing, how's everything. And then I was s t i l l waiting for the

S . MOSIELLO
trucks at that point.
I believe that was on the west side of
West Street his rig was parked, or wherever he was. I'm going to say just south of Vesey but not as far as the walk before.
So I have the trucks me and tells me he's gathering going to send them down to me.
-- the Chief calls up the trucks and I told him where
I was. This i s Chief Keenan. And Chief Ganci called me back and said Steve, I want you to bring those two trucks to me. He said stay on the westerly side of West Street. I'm 50 feet or 50 yards -- I forget exactly -- south of our last command post, which told me he was south of the garage.
Okay, Chief, I have the trucks coming. I'll be there in a couple minutes. The next thing, the second tower came down. I ' m calling Chief Ganci: Car 3A to car 3, car 3 -- he never answered. I kind of knew something happened there.
At that point, as we know, the walking bridge was collapsed in the street. You couldn't get through that way. So I probably went into

S. MOSIELLO 18
shock, knowing that my best friend was seriously injured or dead. I presumed the worst, obviously. And I went back to Chambers Street - - at this point the collapse happens.
And now we're running opposite of the collapse, obviously. I'm running north on West Street. I'm running in the southbound lane of West Street on the east side of the lane. There was rigs parked all along that curb, and I stayed in the street next to those rigs.
Q. This is at the time of the collapse?
A. At the time of the collapse. I heard the noise. I looked up. I saw the debris flying. And believe it or not, I never heard another thing. I did not hear another thing after that.
Same thing with the first collapse. After the initial rumbling, you look up, my ears
shut right down. I heard nothing. Speaking to people, they say you probably thought you were dead, you were just shutting everything out.
So as I was going north on West Street, I stayed next to the rigs. And I don't know if I ran for a block or two. I'm not embarrassed to

S. MOSIELLO
say we ran away from the scene. We had no choice. And I thought I was going to choke to death again. I was totally choked up. I wound up going to my knees - - I don't know at what location - - just saying this was it. Somehow I picked myself up and started moving again.
At first I thought I could outrun it, but it came so fast and furious. Like I said, I think I just kept walking after that. After the collapse was over, I just kept walking and walking. Of course this dust was rolling down and kept pushing towards you, but you couldn't outrun it. Eventually I think I saw a clearing somewhere around Chambers Street. There was a glass overpass there or something.
Q. Probably Stuyvesant High School and Manhattan Community College.
A. Right, right there. That's where it started. You started seeing it clear, clear up.
And that was it. And then I saw some faces and I kept calling Chief Ganci and kept calling him. I tried to get Dan Nigro. I thought he was dead. He wasn't answering.
At that point I went into a panic. I

S. MOSIELLO 20
don't know exactly when, but I saw Chief Turi. I saw Frank Carruthers and I told him I think I know where Pete is and that I want to put together a couple teams and go down and see if we can search for them.
I grabbed A1 Turi. I know he was in the military and he's a real trooper. We got a couple companies together. I believe they gave me ladder 144, the second section, if you will, and ladder 136. I believe it also was the second section there, the ones that we recalled, I believe.
Also now a bunch of guys wanted to be involved - - I forget who else - - a few captains, a few chiefs, whatever. Chief Turi took them on the side and told them we were going to search for Chief Ganci and probably First Deputy Commissioner Feehan and that this was our mission and they were to stay together and follow up.
We went to Vesey Street. We made a right. We went through Two World Financial off of Vesey because you couldn't get through down West Street, wiggled our way around, came out, came to the other side. You didn't know where

S. MOSIELLO 21
you were, didn't know what direction you were anymore. The whole place was a complete disaster zone.
I grabbed a chief who looked like he recognized the scene. I don't remember who it was. I told him we were looking for the spot where the garages were. He said I think it's over here but the only way to get through it is through the garage, you have to go back in the building.
Somehow in all this confusion I lost the guys. I go back to the building and went over and spoke to somebody on the radio. I don't know who it was. Because Chief Turi's radio was dead at that point. They said they started the search.
At that point I went back to the command post, which was now set up at Chambers Street, and I believe it was Chief Carruthers who was there, or Chief Fellini - - I'm not sure - - and I told them I think I should go tell the Mayor and Commissioner I believe that Pete Ganci is dead, that we need lights here, it's going to get dark in a few hours and we need to find him.

S . MOSIELLO 2 2
Q. You said the command post was now a t Chambers Street. Is that Chambers and West?
A. Chambers and West, yes, Chambers and West. That was the west command post at that point. I know there were other command posts s e t up a t Broadway or over a t Park Row. We never saw anything that was going on on the other side of the buildings, on the east side of the towers, because we were always on West Street. I heard some horror stories over there.
Somehow the Commissioner's car was around. There was a vehicle there or something with a driver. I said take me to the Commissioner. They told me he was over at the Police Academy. So they brought me over there.
I went and talked to him and told him what had happened and that Pete's probably dead. He told me calm down, Steve, you're thinking the worst, maybe he's not. I said I'm pretty damn sure. I'm talking to him one minute and the next minute I couldn't raise him on the radio.
I knew everybody was in good hands searching for the Chief and stuff. Don't ask me why, but Chief Ganci and myself had a very close

S. MOSIELLO
relationship with the Police Department also, Chief Esposito and Commissioner Dunne.
And on the way back we were passing One PP, and I said maybe I should stop and tell Joe Dunne what happened also, and I did. At that point I just went and said Joe, I'm really sorry. I'm pretty sure this is the way it's going to play out, but Pete's gone.
Q. Hadn't Joe Dunne also had a close call?
A. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. This is the first time I saw Joe Dunne, I believe. But either way, I've got to go back to the scene.
Q. Can I just get a clarification, Steve. Were they still looking for Chief Ganci - -
A. Yes.
Q. - - and Commissioner Feehan when you left to go to the Police Academy?
A. Yes. There was a very large pile there. There was a lot of steel. I knew this was going to take more than a 15-minute rescue. This was going to take time. And it did. It took a couple of hours.
I remember when I was talking to the Commissioner, babbling, I was very upset. I

S. MOSIELLO 24
wasn't upset with anybody in particular. It was a bad day. I said Commissioner, it's 1:00, I cannot go home without his body. We have to get lights here. Because I looked at my watch. It was exactly 1:OO. I said we have six hours of daylight left. We need lights. I cannot go home without his body.
We live across the street from each other. We've been best friends for many, many years. I often think to myself should I have stayed and dug with the guys and stuff. I didn't think that was necessary at the time. We had to get command and control of this whole scene. It was utter chaos, in everybody's eyes.
I went back to the scene. I don't think I was there 15 minutes. They called me on my radio, asked me to come down to the building, where they found Chief Ganci. They were just going to put him in an ambulance, for me to come down.
I went down there, and they put his body in an ambulance and off they went.
Q. Can you tell me with as much specificity as you can recall, where they found

S. MOSIELLO
him?
A. Yes. They found him - - it was probably
more like I would say 75 to 100 feet south of the first command post, which was on that ramp. I know exactly where they found him. I knew exactly where he was. It wasn't a surprise we found him first, him and Commissioner Feehan, because he had just told me on the radio where he was. He couldn't have moved that far in that time frame.
Q. Were you informed that they had found Commissioner Feehan too at this point?
A. I don't recall. I don't know. I honestly don't know. I know they told me they were 15 feet apart. It was actually on the sidewalk area. They were maybe 25 feet from the building, from the building walk. That building, if you remember, it juts in and out.
Q. The building being the Financial Center?
A. Two World Financial Center. It has different characteristics. This part was set back a little bit, about 25 feet from this part.
Q. There's another walking bridge down

S . MOSIELLO
there; i s that right? North?
A. They were so far north of that. They
were just about, I was going to say, 75 feet -- 75 feet sounds like a lot. It's not. They were 75 feet south of exactly where our first command post was.
Q. Right. The south bridge i s actually south of Liberty Street, so they were well north of that.
A. Oh, well north, absolutely. Well north of that.
Q. Literally only 25 yards south of where the command post at the Two Wo-rld Financial was?
-A. Yes, yes.
At that point I went to the ambulance. Henry McDonald was sitting in the ambulance.
Q. Henry?
A. Henry, Henry. My memory's p r e t t y good. Henry was sitting in the ambulance.
I viewed the body.
Through this whole course of all these

S. MOSIELLO 27
events, I had a cell phone that was working and not working from time to time. I did get a couple calls out to my wife during a couple courses of events, such as a collapse or afterwards, whatever, to let her know that I was okay. I left a voice mail message on her work phone. She's a computer girl, so she would send me back on my beeper that she received my message and love you and all that.
Now I had to go back and tell Mrs. Ganci. I went to the command post at Chambers and West.
Q. Stop you there. Had they recovered Commissioner Feehan's body at this point, to your knowledge?
A. I don't know. I don't recall. I honestly don't recall. But I know they were recovered very close in a timely fashion to each other.
Q. So you made it back to the command post.
A. I'm back at the command post. I told Chief Carruthers - - I think Chief Butler was there also - - that we found Pete and I have to go

n
S . MOSIELLO 2 8
tell his wife. He said go do what you have to do.
I grabbed I believe it was Chief Hale of the NYPD, told him I wanted a police car to take me out there. He said do you want to go by helicopter? I said absolutely not. I need to think of what I have to say to this woman.
d I asked A1 Turi LO go wi~hme.
Chief Ganci and I also have a personal
friend, Dennis Conway, who is retired from the Fire Department who was at the scene helping there. He's still a big, big buff. He was a fireman for 30 years. He worked for Pete for many, many years.
So he went in one police car, and we went i n another and we drove out t o North Massapequa t o t e l l Mrs. Ganci. There were some fire marshals there that I knew. I asked one of the chiefs if they could go and find Chief Ganci's son who was a fireman i n Ladder 111 and

S . MOSIELLO 2 9
pick him up and bring him to the house. Actually I told him to wait down the block and we'd all meet at that location.
Subsequently when we got there, I forgot all about this kid. They weren't there.
We pulled in. I just kept going and told the wife. I felt bad about that, left the kid down the block.
f
Then I came back LO work ha^
That was basically it.
We went back that night. They were
moving cars and doing a l l sorts of things. They were digging out, trying to get equipment in there. It was pretty chaotic. Well lit. I remember there was a lot of lights.

S. MOSIELLO 30
I saw a police tow truck and asked him to tow our car out of there. It has been crushed by some debris. The trunk was popped open; I don't know how. Steering column was all ripped out; I don't know why. To this day I don't know why the column was disabled like that. They towed it to the corner.
I found a department tow truck. I asked them to tow the car to one of the shops, and I rode with the tow truck with the car and saw Tommy McDonald. That was probably around midnight. I asked Tommy for another vehicle. He said he didn't have any but I could have his.
-Q. You said earlier that after the first

S. MOSIELLO 31
collapse but before the second collapse you had seen Tommy McDonald limping.
A. Yes.
Q. The next time you saw him, was that fleet services when he gave you his car?
A. I don't recall that. I don't recall that. I remember him sitting on a rig, on the frontofarigoronthebackofarig. Idon't recall if it was after that first collapse or after the second collapse. I remember seeing him on a rig sitting down resting.
I said Tommy, let me help you. He said I'm all right. I don't recall at what point that was. I guess that's the only cloudiness in a lot of this stuff. You saw faces. So many of these faces I saw.
I saw a friend of mine from when I was in high school, Bruce Gary, who was on the median. He said Steve, when are we going to retire? Every time I go into Manhattan, I always see Bruce Gary. He has been with 40 engine for 20-something years.
And he died. I was really surprised at that. I didn't notice that for probably a week

S. MOSIELLO 32
or so. I really didn't keep up with the list of names. I was, you know, in denial, probably.
Q. Did you ever see Chief Burns?
A. Burns? Yes.
Q. What about Chief Barbara?
A. Yes. Both of them were at the command
post before the second plane hit the second tower. Isawthemboth.
Q. I don't have anything further. I don't have any follow-up questions. Do you have any other recollections or observations?
A. No, I mean, I think most of that stuff is exactly the way it happened. I wasn't cloudy on any of this stuff. It's just a bad day, a bad day in my life. And hopefully we'll all get through this and go forward.
Q. Thank you very much.
MR. McALLISTER: We're going to
conclude the interview. It's now 1207 hours on October 23rd, 2001. Thank you.

F i l e No. 9110142
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW CHIEF ALBERT TURI
Interview Date: October 23, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis

A. TURI
MR. McCOURT: The date is October 23rd, 2001. The time is 1445 hours. My name is Tom McCourt, New York City Fire Department. Currently I'm with Assistant Commissioner James Drury and we are in the process of conducting an interview with Deputy Assistant Chief of Safety Albert Turi.
Q. Can you just identify yourself, please? A. Yes. DAC A1 Turi, Chief of Safety.
Q. Chief at this time, you know the subject
matter that we're here on, September llth, and we would just ask you if you could tell us what you saw, heard and did that day starting with when you first found out that a plane had hit a tower at the World Trade
Center.
A. Okay. I'll start right at the beginning.
At approximately maybe about twenty of 9:00, quarter to 9:00, we're sitting in the Command Center, Chiefs Barbara, Callan and Cassano, and heard a large thud, which I thought at the time was somebody dropping a case of books on the floor above us, and I made a little joke that I'd better go up and take a look; somebody may have gotten hurt. What that thud was as it turned out to be was the impact of the first aircraft hitting the north tower.

A. TURI
About 30 seconds later, a report came over the radio of a plane hitting the Trade Center, and I'm not sure if that initial report said a plane or a propane explosion, but they said the entire side of the Trade Center was on fire. Chief Callan immediately got up. He was the citywide on duty and he left the office immediately. I continued listening to the radio for a few more seconds and it was pretty obvious that something catastrophic had happened.
So I left the Command Center with the intent of responding and I saw Donald Burns coming down the hallway and he stated that a plane had just hit the Trade Center. My aide was on vacation, so I grabbed Lieutenant Chiafari, who was assigned to Safety Command, and we went down to the garage and we were responding.
At some point when I was going over the Brooklyn Bridge, I could clearly see the tower and I started counting what I thought was how many floors were involved in the fire, and from that vantage point I thought we had somewhere between six and eight floors of fire, floor areas that I would consider to be fully involved in fire, and I said to Joe, Joe, this is no accident. It's a clear day. No one could hit this

A. TURI
thing by accident. This is something intentional. Q. And Joe, chief, is - -
A. Joe Chiafari. He's a lieutenant that works
here. Then I further stated that we do not have the capability to put that many floors of fire out. I knew right from the start that there was no way this Fire Department could extinguish six or eight floors of fire fully involved in a high-rise building. It's just not possible because we don't have the means to do it.
So we were responding in. We parked the car on the corner of Fulton and Church. It was on the extreme east side of the Trade Center. I got out of the car, Joe got out, went to the trunk, and I was starting to don my bunker gear. I was putting on my pants and boots when I heard something similar to the sound of a jet aircraft taking off, and when I looked up I saw the impact of the second plane hitting the south tower and immediately an enormous fireball erupted that actually masked the entire upper half of the building and part of the north tower. It was so enormous that even from that great distance I could feel the radiant heat on my face. Within seconds we had to turn and run east on Fulton because debris was falling actually where we parked the car, even at that

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great of a distance, and there were it seemed like hundreds of people in the street running in every direction.
I ran about 50 yards and my hearing was telling me that the debris has stopped falling. I turned around to assess the situation, and the fireball had pretty much dissipated, and what I actually thought at that time, and mistakenly so, was it's not as bad as it looks; most of the fuel was expended on the exterior of the building. That's what I originally thought.
So we ran back to the car and laying right in back of my car was a large object which I thought was probably part of one of the aircraft turbines. It was laying about ten feet away from the car and it was still on fire, smoking and fire. I finished putting on my gear and Lieutenant Chiafari put on his gear, actually he put on my aide's gear, and we walked north on Church. As we were walking, I could see multiple jumpers jumping from Tower 1. I'm going to guess about probably ten. We turned left on Vesey and we headed towards West Street.
We got to West Street and I looked back up and now I could see the other part of the tower, more or less the north and west side, people jumping on that

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side, and I decided to enter the lobby of Tower 1, and I was pretty much looking up most of the time. I didn't want to be killed by someone falling on top of me.
We entered the lobby and I saw Commissioner Von Essen, Commissioner Fitzpatrick was in there, Bill Feehan, Joe Callan and Pete Hayden. Those are the people I immediately recognized. I went over to the Commissioner and informed him that the second plane had hit the south tower. He already knew that. I then said, you know, this is an absolute terrorist attack. They had already surmised that. I said you'd better put in a full recall. We're going to need all the help we can get. And we briefly discussed the recall.
Q. For the record, chief, would you explain what a recall is?
A. A full recall would mean we would call in every off-duty firefighter.
Then we briefly discussed how we would accomplish this and I suggested staging areas like Shea Stadium, Penn Station, Grand Central, where we could get large numbers of people and move them down by subway, because there wouldn't be a need for apparatus; it would be a need for manpower for relief purposes.

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Then I went over to talk to Chiefs Callan and Hayden, who were the incident commanders, Chief Callan being the incident commander, Chief Hayden being the deputy chief in the 1st Division who had responded, and I stated to them that there is no possible way that we could extinguish this fire, and they were certainly in agreement with that, and that it should strictly be an evacuation procedure and to get as many people out of the building as quickly as we can, and I remember being extremely concerned that we would have a lot of our people up in the building and a third aircraft would then strike it. I was deathly afraid of another inbound aircraft coming in and hitting the building while our people were up in the stairwells.
Then there was a brief discussion about,
since we had two towers going, that the lobby of Tower 1 would not be a good place for a main incident command post. I didn't know at that time that Chief Ganci and Cassano were already setting up something on the median of West Street. So I told them that I would go across on West Street and find a suitable place. As I left
the building, I heard a body hit about 15 feet from me, but I never turned around and looked.
When I hit the median on West Street, the

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command post was there. It was in the process of being moved fully across West Street. I went across West Street. They had just set it up on I believe the building is 2 World Financial Center.
Q. Let me stop you there for a second, chief. When you were in the lobby of 1 World Trade, can you describe the interior and the condition of the
lobby?
A. Yes. I was surprised that all the glass was
mostly out. I wasn't sure how it got out. I didn't think we took it out. I just assumed that it was the vibration of the aircraft hitting it. And I did notice some pieces of marble that looked like it was dislodged from the core area.
Q. Can you describe how many civilians you might have seen at that point?
A. I can talk about that because that surprised me. There were very few civilians, very few, which just led me to believe they had already left, the people that could get out on their own, or they were exiting another way out I couldn't see. But usually during a high-rise fire, and I've been to 20 of them in my career, there's usually so many civilians in the lobby that it becomes a problem, and that was notably

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absent.
Q. Just for the record, again, this command post
inside the lobby faced out on what street; West Street? A. Well, it's the lobby command post and it was closest to West Street. That's where the fire command
station is for that building. That's where the lobby command post was being established.
Q. Was there any discussion at that point in time, before we get back to your story, with anybody or any of the personnel that worked in the World Trade Center about the condition of elevators, whether they were working or not?
A. Not to my knowledge. I'm sure it was done. I mean, in fact, I know it was done because I've seen the video, but not when I was in there, and I really wasn't concerned about it at that point.
Q. Did you later find out whether they were operational or not?
A. I believe they were not operational. That's what I believe.
Q. Okay. So you left off before I interrupted you about the command post now being moved over to 2 World Financial Center.
A. When I reached there, let me see who was

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there that I remember. Let's refer to these notes. (Pause.)
A. When I got there, the people that I remember being there were Chief Ganci and Chief Cassano, and there were other personnel who I just don't remember who they were. And I said to them that even this place was not a safe position for it.
So I looked about 20 feet to my north and there was a ramp going to an underground garage and I told them to move it to that ramp for fear that flying glass would scale hundreds of feet and we would at least have a place to duck in and get away from it if it should happen, and that was done immediately. We did that immediately. And then I had a brief discussion with Chief Ganci and I told him that, Pete, we're going to lose some people here. It's inevitable. It's too tremendous. We're probably going to lose some people.
Then we were trying to establish communications with both towers trying to figure out what commanders were in what tower. We were trying to set up the command board to place units, where we had assigned them or who had been previously assigned before we got there, and the handie-talkie

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communications were very poor at best.
Q. Just stopping for a second, chief, when you
said that to Chief Ganci, did he respond in any way?
A. He just nodded in agreement. We were looking
at two large bodies of fires that neither of us in our 33-year careers had ever seen anything that enormous. So it's pretty much, you know, I thought we would lose a company or two possibly. I didn't think we would come out of this unscathed at all. It was just too enormous.
So we were trying to identify the companies and place them, we were trying to get units on the proper radio. We had chosen different frequencies for different buildings. We were not very successful contacting all the units or all the commanders.
Q. Do you know over what frequency you operated on?
A. No. And I started writing this all down on a clipboard, which I later lost, so unfortunately I don't have that record.
I knew that without communications there could be absolutely nothing that could have been done safely there because in every fatal fire that I've looked at where firemen have lost their lives,

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communications always plays some part in it, either a lack of or missed communications. It always plays a part in a firefighting fatality and I was really concerned about getting the proper communications network set up. And here is where I probably lose a little bit of my sense of time. I'm not sure how long
trying to do that. I'm going to guess 15 or so.
Had you seen Chief Burns or Chief Downey at all up to this point?
A. No.
Q. What about Father Judge?
A. I hadn't seen him. He was probably in the
lobby when I was in there, but I don't recall seeing him.
And I thought to myself that, based on other high-rise fires that had burned out of control, that we would probably have some type of localized collapse up on the upper floors, especially in the core area of the building, which I mistakenly thought was block construction. After further investigation, of course, after the fact, it wasn't block construction. The elevator cores were encased in sheetrock actually.
Q. For the record, would you tell us what block
we were minutes Q.

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construction is?
A. Yes. Block is usually like a four-inch
cement block that's laid and that's what encloses elevator shafts. In the construction of the Trade Center, due to the high speed and the travel distance of the elevators, they used a sheetrock construction over steel so there was more give for the wind forces created by the elevators. They felt that it would probably have knocked the block over. So I thought we would be pretty good for about three hours. Three hours is usually what the fire walls are rated for in high-rise construction. It's usually a three-hour rating. We didn't have any indications of any structural stability at that time.
Then Steve Mosiello, Chief Ganci's executive assistant, came over to the command post and he said we're getting reports from OEM that the buildings are not structurally sound, and of course that got our attention really quick, and Pete said, well, who are we getting these reports from? And then Steve brought an EMT person over to the command post who was I think sent as a runner to tell us this and Chief Ganci questioned him, where are we getting these reports? And his answer was something, you know, we're not sure,

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OEM is just reporting this.
And within ten seconds of that conversation,
I was writing on my clipboard - - can I use foul language on this?
Q. Absolutely. That conversation, by the way, took place in the ramp driveway leading into the garage?
A. That is correct; right at the ramp. The ramp was still on the exterior. We were not in the garage. Maybe 20 feet from the opening of the garage.
The next thing I heard was Pete say what the fuck is this? And as my eyes traveled up the building, and I was looking at the south tower, somewhere about halfway up, my initial reaction was there was a secondary explosion, and the entire floor area, a ring right around the building blew out. I later realized that the building had started to collapse already and this was the air being compressed and that is the floor that let go. And as my eyes traveled further up the building, I realized that this building was collapsing and I turned around and most everybody was ahead of me running for the garage, and I remember thinking I looked at this thing a little bit too long and I might not make this garage. But I did.

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And I got about 20 feet down the ramp into the garage, I'm going to estimate 15 to 20 feet, when all the dust from debris blew into the garage like it was a hurricane force wind and I ducked into some small alcove. Most of the remainder of the people were in the garage deeper than I was because I was still on the ramp. I could feel the incline. And you could hear heavy objects falling outside and I said to myself, well, if this building doesn't collapse around me, we'll probably survive this. Then the dust got so thick and it became so black at one time I thought, wow, 33 years under some terrible conditions and I'm going to smother in dust and die. I didn't like that thought.
When I stopped hearing objects hitting the sidewalk, I knew where I was, I could still feel the incline of the ramp, I decided to exit the way I had come in, and it was so dark, I could hear other voices around me, there was also other people coming out that same way, but it was so pitch black that I did not know I was outside of the garage until I walked into a tree on the sidewalk, and I actually felt good about that.
At least I knew I was outside. I was extremely concerned that falling debris would block my exit out

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that way and then I would have to go back into the garage and find another way out.
Q. Let me stop you for a moment, chief.
How long do you think the debris was coming
down for, guesstimating?
A. I'm going to guesstimate like a minute.
Q. And when you went back out, can you describe
the type of debris you were walking around or over? A. I stepped over stuff, I was tripping on
stuff, I stepped over probably some pieces of steel, and I just waited until the dust lifted so I could see what the hell happened. I mean, I knew what happened. I just wanted to see how bad it really was.
Q. Was there anybody else with you at that time or within close proximity?
A. There were people but I don't know who. I could hear voices but I could not see. I couldn't see my hand in front of my face.
Q. And the debris went all the way up the driveway ramp?
A. Oh, yes. And I've got to regress a minute because I forgot something.
When the building started to collapse and I was outside, actually, the first thought that went

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through my mind was, my God, we just lost 250 men. That's something I'll never forget.
So I think I stayed out in the front for about I'm going to guess five, ten minutes tops, as the dust lifted, and Chief Ganci came around the corner.
He had gotten out through a stairwell in the garage. And we regrouped at my position where the original command post was and I said, Pete, that building just collapsed. Get everybody out of the north tower. A collapse i s imminent. If it happened there, i t ' s going t o happen here. We've got t o get everybody out.
I heard him give that order over the handie-talkie. But not mine. Mine had ceased to work. Maybe it had dust in it or whatever happened. My handie-talkie was no longer working. I heard him verbally issue that order more than once. I could not hear i f it was received or it was acknowledged.
And there were a l o t of people mulling around in the street, people who were in shock.
Q. Firefighters, not civilians?
A. EMS personnel, firefighters and some civilians.
Q. Let me backtrack for a second.
Chief Feehan, do you know if he ran into the

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garage with Chief Ganci and was he back out on the street with Chief Ganci?
A. You know, I don't remember. I don't remember that. My main concern at this point was to move all
the people that were milling around in front of Tower 1 somewhere else. I was s t i l l very, very concerned that there would be another aircraft coming in and it would hit one of the other tall buildings, and I remember looking up West Street thinking that I've got to move everybody almost up to Chambers Street because there were no high-rise buildings taller than about six stories there. I was looking for a place to stage a triage.
And I ran to the middle of West Street and I was screaming a t people t o move, move up north, move up north, and I saw an ESU vehicle, Emergency Services truck, and I saw Chief Garcia standing up there on West and Vesey and I asked him, Louie, look in that truck, see i f you can find me a bullhorn, which he did. He gave me a bullhorn and I was screaming over the bullhorn for people to move three blocks north of my position. And Chief Ganci had been a little bit north at that point of that crossover that eventually collapsed with the collapsing Tower 1 and I thought he

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was coming towards where I was and I kept screaming over the bullhorn. I believe it was somewhat effective. There were people now listening to it and starting to move, and I saw a battalion chief coming up who was evacuating the area that I just was trying to get evacuated. I gave him the bullhorn and said continue this. Get everybody out of here. They've got to get three blocks north.
And I started walking south on West Street to find out where Chief Ganci went when I heard this enormous roar. It was the same roar I heard when the south tower collapsed and I knew that this was collapsing. I didn't even look at it this time. I turned around and I started running north on West Street. I probably ran a half a block before the dust was so choking that, if I continued to run, I thought I would die, and I laid on the ground and put my coat over my face. And there was a young firefighter next to me who said we're going to die here, we're going to die, I can't breathe, and I remember saying to him I just went through this 20 minutes ago. You're not going to die. Just calm down. We're going to wait here for ten minutes, whatever it takes, and we'll be fine. We're not dead yet. I could hear pieces of

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metal falling in the area but nothing really close that concerned me.
Then within about five minutes I pretty much peeked out of my coat and realized we could get up and move a little further north, which we did. Then I remember seeing firefighters coming from the Chambers Street area towards me and I saw Chief Nardone, who I know personally from the 9th Battalion, who was arriving on the scene, and I requested that he set up a staging and triage area up towards Chambers Street and to separate all the people that were coming out of the area versus the fresh troops who were coming in and to hold them a l l there; don't l e t anybody in. Then I saw Chief Fischler, who I also know personally, and asked him to assist Chief Nardone with that task.
Then I saw Commissioner Fitzpatrick and we were trying to get all the fresh troops on one side of West Street, a l l the walking wounded on the other side, and then my eyes were so irritated that I just couldn't see out of them anymore. I sat down on the median and someone brought me a bottle of water and I was trying
t o flush my eyes out. Then I talked t o some news media people at that time. I'm not even sure what I told them. But I did talk to some news media.

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Once my eyesight got a little bit better, I returned south on West Street to approximately Vesey, and I can't remember exactly who I saw there, but I knew that Chief Ganci was most likely dead because I had seen him going a little bit south after I had left him. The next thing I remember clearly is that I thought I might be the only staff chief left alive. I didn't see Chief Cassano. I thought Chief Ganci was dead. I had no idea where Chief Barbara or Chief Burns were, although I assumed they were in the south tower and I assumed that they were dead. I did not know Chief Callan made it out of the north tower. I thought he was probably dead.
Q. Chief Nigro?
A. I did not see Chief Nigro at all. I don't even remember seeing Chief Nigro when I first got there.
Q. Stepping back for a second, chief, when the command post was set up in front of 2 World Financial and after the first collapse and as you were coming back down the street even after the second collapse, can you describe what was in the street on West Street in terms of rigs, ambulances?
A. Well, I'll tell you the truth. I can't

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remember. I mean, it was just horrible. At some point after that -- I can't remember exactly when I met Chief Cruthers. I think it was probably very shortly after at that point. Chief Cruthers had made his way to West and Vesey and I saw Chief Nigro come in at that point from somewhere and my impression was that Dan was pretty much in shock, and I remember saying to Chief Cruthers, Frank, you're going to have to take charge of this. I don't think either of us are in any condition to do anything right now. And he acknowledged that fact and he then became the commander at that point.
Then I asked for two volunteer companies to come with me. I was going to go try and find Chief Ganci where I last saw him. Two companies came with me and we were poking around in the rubble, stepping over, climbing up. I looked up at the top of I guess at that point it was 3 World Financial Center just north of the Winter Garden and I saw large pieces of brickwork and building flapping, so I abandoned that search. I could not put those men i n danger.
Q. How many men are we talking about at that point?
A. I had about twelve men with me from two companies. So I abandoned that. I said this is too

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dangerous. I can't get anybody hurt looking for one person. So I returned to the command post that Frank Cruthers had set up, asked him what I could do for
him. This probably took a half an hour I ' m thinking, somewhere around there, and at that time he said to me if I could find my way to the south end of Vesey Street, because the north bridge had collapsed in the street and you couldn't pass, if I could get down to the other end and take command of that sector.
So probably I went through the building at 3 World Financial Center, went through part of the atrium that was s t i l l standing of the Winter Garden, went around back by the river and came out somewhere I believe on Liberty Street, and Chief Visconti had responded. He was pretty much running a search operation with about five or six companies looking for victims. I made my way over to Chief Visconti and I actually told him that, Nick, I'm going to assume command here, but mentally I ' m not i n the best shape t o do that and I would appreciate it if he would continue operating and taking charge and just keep me informed
of the status reports.
About 15 minutes later, there were a group of firefighters searching the pile who yelled over that

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We put him in a Stoke and then we carried
him -- let me see what building it was. We carried him through 2 World Financial Center. There was a doorway to the building. We carried him through there and through that same atrium I had come through before to an ambulance on Vesey. I ' m through pretty much with that.
Then I saw Steve Mosiello and told him, I remember saying to him, Steve, I told you I wouldn't leave here without Pete. He's in the ambulance dead.
24
-So Steve and I took it on our own and got ahold of a high-ranking police official and we got a car to take us out to Pete's house to notify his wife. And that's what we did. We went out, notified his wife, and I got a police vehicle to take me back to my home in Queens and I took a hot shower, change of clothes.
Chief Nigro, who does not live too far from me, he lives about a half a mile from me or a mile, I got ahold of him on the telephone. He told me he was home also and I said I'm going to go back but I don't have a car, you know, don't worry about it, I'm going back as soon as I just clean up, he picked me up and we went back to the site.
Q. What time was this about, chief; daylight?
A. No, it was dark. I'm going to guess it was 9:00 o'clock at night.
Q. Had you heard anything about First Deputy Commissioner Feehan at this point?
A. No. My memory is vague and I almost swear that I saw Bill with Pete pretty much on the north side of that bridge and, again, my handie-talkie was dead

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and I could see Pete on the handie-talkie and he started heading south and I think Commissioner Feehan was with him at that point. Later on I think what happened is there were probably dozens of Maydays transmitted and I'm sure that he was going back to address some of these, what he thought he could do, you know, when the second tower collapsed.
Q. When did you find out that he was missing or had been killed?
A. Well, after I started trying to set up that staging area, that triage area, you know, I was asking people, have you heard from him, have you heard from him. I saw Steve. He couldn't raise him. And I knew from where he was heading, unless it's a miracle, he was crushed down there. I pretty much knew at that point; in my heart I knew that I'm never going to see him again.
Q. Describe the debris you saw when you finally got down to Liberty Street in attempting to do the rescue with the other squad.
A. I guess the debris was steel and dust. Steel and dust, in some spots two stories hight, in most spots ten feet high covering the entire West Street.
Q. West Street entirely covered?

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A. Rigs buried. I don't even remember seeing rigs. I remember seeing a crushed rig on the north side of the bridge, but I don't know what rig it was, and the debris was equally high there. I remember saying to myself this is not a survivable collapse,
that any survivors that survived I can probably see. I didn't think there would be anybody else. Fortunately for five or six of our people, I was wrong and people were rescued out of a stairwell sometime later.
Q. You're referring to Ladder 6?
A. Yes, Ladder 6 and the 11th Battalion, Richie Picciotto, Jay Jonas. I didn't think there would be any survivors.
When we went back, Chief Nigro and myself, we pretty much just kept walking around the area looking in disbelief, looking at the operations that were going on, and then we came back here. I think we were here about 4:00o'clock in the morning. We sat down and started making some notes so I would remember some things. There were some priorities that I thought what we had to do. That had already happened. I mean, priority? I thought the Department, a t that time, I mean, we've got to man the units. We've got to provide coverage for the city. That's what was really

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important at that time. I didn't think this was going to be the end of it by any means.
I tried to lay down about 5:00 in the morning for about an hour. I couldn't sleep. Pretty much the rest of that day is a blur. I don't know what the hell I was doing.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: I think this would be an appropriate point to end this interview then, chief. I want to thank you very much.
The interview was concluded at 1527 hours.

File No. 9110143
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW LIEUTENANT MICHAEL CAHILL Interview Date: October 17, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason

M. CAHILL
MR. ECCLESTON: Today is October 17, 2001. The time is 1236 hours. My name is Christopher Eccleston. I work for New York City Fire Department. I'm conducting an interview with the following individual.
Q. Please state your name, rank and assigned
command in the New York City Fire Department as of September 11, 2001.
A. My name is Michael Cahill. I'm a Lieutenant, I'm assigned to EMS Division 6.
Q. Were you assigned to the World Trade disaster on September 11, 2001?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. In your own words, can you please tell me the details of the day.
A. Absolutely. Absolutely. We did what we could to see to it that we were not stuck in the office buried under paper that day. You hang around 14 years, 11 months and 29 days, waiting for the big one and I thought Clifford Avenue was a big one. Then we went to Happy Lands. I thought that was the big one. We made a point to kidnap who we had to kidnap and get everybody in the Division office down to his job.
One of the guys in the office made a good

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point. He said if he or I were driving that day, we would be dead. But as the person who was actually operating the vehicle didn't know Manhattan. He's a vacation relief ALS coordinator. Good guy. First time I think he ever chauffeured the Chief around. He was driving very very carefully, as he should. He was using the directional signal and all that kind of
stuff, which i s funny with lights and sirens. You don't see that.
As a result, we didn't get there as fast as we initially would have liked to. Just around the time we pulled up, stopped the vehicle, actually we were getting out of the vehicle and the first thing I became conscious off of when we were stepping out of the vehicle, was a police officer was flying in our direction, yelling and screaming for everybody to back up and leave. There were a few thousand civilians, evacuating, going past us. About 30 feet maybe from the command car, a piece of what looked like the
facade, looking at it now, not that I ever paid too much attention to those buildings before. It had to be two stories or three stories hit the street about 30 feet away from Chief Stone. Like that.
The cop -- it missed that cop by -- I don't

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know how many feet. He was probably standing right underneath it, which explains him yelling. We jumped back in the vehicle, figured it was a good idea to since we were mobile, move us far away as we could. We had no idea what was going on. We went there for a plane into a building, a fire. That's what we went there for. Now we show up and this big thing hits.
We got about 10 feet when a l l the people who were fleeing, there were s t i l l you know, some civilians and some rescue workers and some cops, were running in front of the vehicles. We couldn't really take the vehicle any further and we decided very quickly we w i l l abandon it. We pulled over as close as we could,
jumped out of the vehicle and were trying to organize getting helmets out of the trunk and those kind of things.
This cloud that had to be three stories high rolled right up on us. Like it was nothing. Stevie was very very anxious to get us away from that thing.
As he was walking in this direction, it was unbelievable. It was black sort of, mostly gray, you couldn't see through it, and it was moving faster than any of us could run. No matter what we did.
We only got maybe half a block before it

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covered a l l of us. There were a few ambulances who were already parked there, with some very confused and frightened people sitting inside. All we basically did was duck behind one. There was really nowhere to go.
I mean, we were completely disoriented, really. When you first get there, you know, you take a breath and look for somebody else, somebody else from EMS and the assignment, we knew where it was going. There were about 30 Chiefs assigned. What anyone's assignment was going to be we had no idea.
So we were still in that scene survey type mode and all of a sudden these bricks started falling around you. I don't even know how to describe it. Everything got black, nobody could breathe. After a while everything got gray again and then you could sort of breathe. We kind of mustered up our forces.
At that point, I found Arnedegnato, the L.O.D.I. Limited person in our office. Sounds foolish, but we didn't know of any other command post that was still extant, that was sitting around there, and we knew, we hadn't seen any other supervisors or Chiefs at that point. We could barely see anything at all, very strange. Really eerie. Like being underwater a t
night. You know, you sort of -- total sensory

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deprivation. You are not sure exactly where you should go. There i s so much noise. There i s things you feel on your feet, just, you know, pieces whatever, hitting the street.
We weren't sure what to do next. What I was going to try to do is just do a fast head count of the people that came to me. I was going to try to find out where my two medics were and my APs were and my Chief. Some of the guys, some of the people who were in the ambulances started coming out of the ambulances, things started to settle.
The Chief popped up. I was telling everyone to stay exactly where they were. People were getting out of the ambulances. They were wandering, or trying to. I said stay right by your ambulance right now till we get a head count, find out how many people are
here. You couldn't really see halfway down the block. It's sort of hard to describe. A handful of ambulances with us, we thought there was a MERV a little further down the block but we really couldn't see.
Chief showed up, and we kind of -- Q. Which Chief?
A. My Chief. My Chief showed up. She showed up. We kind of sort of came up with a very fast plan.

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At the time, we had no -- this is going to sound absolutely bullshit, but we had no idea that we were about a block away from the building when it dropped. We really didn't know what that was. It sounds stupid, but it didn't enter my mind or I think anybody else's mind at that moment that there was any idea that that building was going to fall.
When that big piece or whatever it was hit the street, I thought it was a part of the building. That's what I thought. We knew that planes did substantial damage and you could see that as you were driving down the highway to get there. You could see it on TV before we even left the Division. It didn't occur to me that that was the entire building. And that's what all that dust was from. It didn't even cross my mind. It didn't occur to me that the second building would fall. I thought we were perfectly safe where we were.
So we set up ALS on one side of the street, BLS on the other side of the street, gave Arnedegnato a clipboard and told her run up and down, start tracking people. We need to know what units were there, their shield numbers, who was doing what. Then we were going to set up a staging, triage, whatever else we had. A

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few people wandered up. A few EMS (inaudible). One very emotionally upset young lady, an EMS person I had never seen her before. Short little blond girl, probably from Manhattan. She definitely wasn't from the Bronx. I'd know her.
She was upset about her son who was in Queens in school. The whole situation. She was completely - - she was totally not functioning. I put her in the back of one of the ambulances and gave her a BLS unit to sit with her for a little while. I'd check on her occasionally.
Found the MERV, once things settled up a little bit, and saw there was a little further up the block, there was already activity taking place, people already triaging, people who were already working on transporting people. Basically got back up. We tried to find masks. There weren't enough masks to go around for everybody. Basically the only masks we had at the time was whatever was in the back of the ambulances that were there and there was about ten of them there. It wasn't enough to go around.
Treated a couple of cops. Treated a couple of firemen. Mostly walking out of the dust. We had to walk into the dust and pull somebody out. Things kind

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of happened quickly. We were just sending them towards people, towards vehicles. Getting things organized. At one point or another, I don't know the address of the building. There was an interior triage being set up. That was sort of underway. There was a very well meaning EMT waiting over there who was completely confused by the triage procedures, even though there was a relatively large amount of patients in one place at one time, including a lot of EMS people, who weren't quite sure what they were up to at the moment.
They were trying to find a bathroom in the building so they could wash up. Not being terribly verbal, I mean I was finding - - I came across Captain Rivera, who is a senior guy. He used to work in my Division, just, I think two days before he transferred out of the Division. Good guy, good guy, good boss. But a lot of people were sort of not quite sure how to proceed.
We were reverting back to these are the tags, tear off the tags, didn't really seem to matter at the time. That's what was going on. I don't know how to describe it. When you didn't know what to do, I guess you revert back to what you sort of understand.
That's what we were seeing. Well meaning

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EMTs, but messing up the triage. Tearing off the wrong side of the tag. We found a lady who was relatively badly injured. We scooped her, put her on the side,
put her on oxygen. There was a fire Chief, I don't know where he came from, he had a fracture, I believe in one of his arms. Took a nice knock in the head. He was very concerned about where we were. He kept looking from where we were to the skylight and he kept saying we need not to be there.
Steve was (inaudible) Chief Villani, Captain Rivera, Chief Pascale, I understand, was i n the area a t that point. I guess she went in to find a ladies room and a place to wash up. All this happened within a few minutes. All this really happened within maybe 10, 15, 20 minutes.
Chief had Q.
Steve was concerned about what this fire said, Steve is a very nervous type.
Steve who?
Steve (inaudible). Sorry. (inaudible).
A.
From the time we got out of the car, huge cloud
(inaudible). He came up to me and he said you need to hear what this Chief has to say. He went and found this fire Chief and he said we shouldn't be here. This area is not secure. He kept pointing up through the

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skylight. Sure enough, he was absolutely right. Not too long after that I went outside to
give an assist to - - the tracks on the MERV. They were trying to set the tracks up on the back of the MERV so that they could roll stuff. They couldn't get it straight. I walked past and was giving them a hand. All of a sudden somebody gave an alarm. I don't know who it was, that it was time to evacuate this area now as quickly as possible. Ambulances peeling out. MERV peeled out. People left their ambulances taking off on foot. People were confused. They didn't know, some of the folks who were assigned over there, knew where to report, but didn't know anything else about Manhattan, so they didn't know where they should go first, or where to report to at this point.
That's when the second collapse started to come down. All kinds of noise. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, very loud. Nobody knew what it was. Everybody stopped when we heard it. Everybody took it very seriously when the firefighters started running. When they start running, it's like maybe time to catch up, before you even ask a question and we didn't know if that was - -
We started hearing the first building had

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come down completely. Initially we heard there were like 5 or 6 stories that were still standing. Then we heard that it was gas mains or cars going off. That's what we thought the thumping was initially. But I think it turned out to be the second building coming down, because right after that there was this monumental cloud. It was worse than the first one.
Looked for my guys, my medics were gone. They took off. One, I understand, headed into an ambulance. Neil tried to help somebody and he got behind the building. Didn't know where my Chief went. Lost Chief Villani completely.
Found Arnedegnato. I was banging on the ambulance telling people just take off, head down as far as you can go until you hear the word stop, because nobody knew where to tell everyone to evacuate to. All everybody knew the second building was coming down and we were - - I think we finally decided I think the building we were in was probably 3 World Trade Center. I think that's where we decided we eventually ended up.
Q. Did you ever enter any of the buildings?
A. Yes, the interior triage building, whichever building it was. It's still standing I understand. It had a nice terrarium lobby. That was the first triage

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area. As far as entering actually one of the World Trade Center buildings?
Q. Yes.
A. There was enough to do outside. It sounds stupid. Eventually I had no doubt a t a l l that we would eventually just wander on over there, but at that point nobody knew exactly how many Lieutenants were around. How many units were around. We were still trying to do the basic stuff.
How many people are here. Where are we going to send them. I had no radio. I actually -- no, I'm wrong. I did sign out a radio over there, but at that point it was lost. I was waylaid by an ATF guy, who was in such a -- in his exuberance to leave where he was, he took off like a linebacker, knocked me clean off my feet and I wasn't the only one.
He h i t my watch. He knocked my watch off, knocked my watch off. Somebody found it in the rubble. Turned it in to Metrotech. Actually that's like --
Q. That's nice.
A. Absolutely, absolutely. So I found that
l i t t l e EMT who was hysterical, people were taking off, including the crew that was supposed to be taking care

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of her. They took off. So I stopped her for two seconds, because I knew she was with somebody. She couldn't t e l l me who her partner was. She wasn't able to tell me where her partner was and she (inaudible),
i t ' s hard t o describe. She pulled away from me and ran into the dust where some of the ambulances were
parked.
I turned around and I started heading off after her. People running this way and I'm running that way after this EMT. Ambulances going this way, ESU trucks flying down the street, cutting through the dust, people ducking out of his way. Absolute panic, absolute panic.
Then I saw Arnedegnato. She was heading t h i s way. I was going to tell her to stop and wait because I was concerned where everyone was. Sounds stupid. I was worried about where my l i t t l e group of people were.
She was following two police officers and some ATF guys and some non-uniformed personnel, but I wasn't sure who they were. Who -- there was a -- I believe it was a construction trailer. They looked like construction trailers. Could have been a police trailer, that was half a block further up the street.

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Basically what we were trying to do at that point was trying to get away from the dust. It's hard to describe. It's like somebody puts a black cloth over your face. You can't even breathe. They might see but you can't (inaudible) - - like that. Then it sits in your mouth. Like you couldn't even take a breath, couldn't even take a breath. Like I said, it was coming so fast. It was coming from this side, it was coming from that side. As far as you looked, there was more of it. It just like - -
Q. (inaudible)?
A. You couldn't outrun it. You absolutely didn't have that. Everybody was heading in that direction. The ambulances were taking off. One or two stayed behind, stayed where they were. I headed towards the trailer with the idea of at least getting behind it, because I had took the attitude of somebody else that they were around building one when it came down. They started running. They got about a block and then they realized that they couldn't outrun it, and they should stay exactly where we were. Whatever was gonna happen would happen.
I figured I'd get as far as the trailer. I'd duck under it or beneath it, just follow the rest of

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the cops and firemen to see where they are headed. We managed to get in it just around the time the cloud
hit. Everything got pitch black. There was no power. Stuff rained off it, banged off it left and right. It got pitch black, because when the cloud hit it was like nighttime. It stayed that way for quite a while. It stayed that way for quite a while.
I did a fast head count there. The only person I could find was Arnedegnato. I didn't know where the Chief was. I lost Villani, didn't know where the medics were. There were no other units with me besides she and I, who were in that trailer. There was a couple of cops and some firemen, and whoever was the occupants of the trailer.
Found some water in the trailer and do what we can to irrigate some people in the dark who had some real trouble with what was in their eyes. I went
outside while it was still kind of sort of
down. The blackness was gone. Everything
gray, looked like snow, with the intention
for everybody. I sort of felt responsible
where they were. Nobody was around. It was dead quiet. The ambulances looked like they were covered with gray snow, the rubble on the ground, just looked
coming
was s o r t of of looking to know

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like mounds of like gray -- just like clouds, because you couldn't even see. The dust was so thick you couldn't see a sharp edge from a smooth edge.
Eventually we left the trailer. I located Captain Rivera. Arnedegnato stayed with me. We needed to find as many EMS people as we could, because really at that point there were no EMS people floating
around. A lot of firemen, a lot of cops, still some civilians oddly enough who were staggering around, some plainclothes people I didn't recognize.
Most of the ambulances had evacuated except for the few who were sitting there and nobody was
moving in those. Some of them were running, some of them weren't. Didn't think anyone was in them.
Couldn't see anybody. Asked her to hang out, stay here and you and I will try to get some EMS people together to find out where to stage. We will find out exactly where we are supposed to be. I turned my back and she was gone. No idea where she went. We didn't find her till the end of the night. She turned up at one of the hospitals, not hurt, but at a field hospital.
Located Captain Rivera. Asked him i f he was aware of any sort of command post, anything. He was absolutely unaware. He had no idea of what was going

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on. Figured we would stay together and set something UP.
Then I looked around some more, saw Chief Pascale. I don't know where she ended up or where she went. She asked me what I was doing there. At that point I found a couple of firemen. I said well, there's two firemen over here and they need attention. See those ambulances? We need to find out who belongs to those ambulances, if they are still running. She is giving me orders. I said okay.
So I went looking, I found Neil, found Steve. So then it was me, Neil, Steve and Captain Rivera. Somebody, it was either an operations officer or a Chief, who I didn't recognize wearing white, had a white helmet, but it wasn't marked. Everybody was covered in dust. Couldn't identify. I was looking to him, we were looking to him to see where we should set things up. Somebody had to have a radio at that
point. Most us didn't anymore.
We walked a block further up. We got some bottled water. There was bottled water amongst the rubble. Grabbed some bottled water, put it on the stair chairs we had and we were dragging it up the block. We figured Stuyvesant High School was where we

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were sending most of the ambulances to evacuate, go over there. A couple of ambulances were there.
Nobody had any clear idea what was going on. Nobody had any idea what was going on, I mean, at that point. Where is the command post, where is staging, we had no radio. We couldn't get in contact with anyone. Went into Stuyvesant High School because it was open. The Police Department was in there. They had set up sort of a command post. They were starting to set up the command post.
We walked back and forth. They had a gymnasium. Looked practical. They had an auditorium, looked practical, school guards, who were being very helpful. They had bathrooms, they had water. I said this is a good place to set up. It's not that far from where we were. It's right by the water. So I got ahold of J.R., Captain Rivera. I said this is where we should be. This is where we should do it.
I mean we should be inside this high school right now. He said, good, good. He's trying to get people at home on his cellphone. Steve is trying to get people at home on his cellphone. Cellphones really weren't working. I told Neil and Steve, go ahead and throw some water on your face because there was water

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in there. They were throwing -- they had glasses of water set up, the school staff did.
No sooner did we get i n there, Neil was looking for a bathroom. He went into the bathroom. Steve was directed by me -- go over by the water. I was heading towards the auditorium because I talked to the school security guard and they said injured people had walked i n already and they were kind of pointed i n that direction. So I was heading towards the auditorium when a bunch of cops came running up the street yelling there's a gas main leak.
So everybody as a unit just left. We took
off out of that place because they were evacuating, the school people, the injured people had to be dragged
in. We just tore off the oxygen masks. They flew as fast as they could go. We evacuated at the rear of the building. At that point it was so completely disoriented, because now we heard from a l o t of people, because you couldn't see in there. I don't know how to describe it. You couldn't have seen even half a
block.
The dust stayed in the air. It was so heavy. You looked where you thought the building should be and if they were there, you couldn't see it,

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because the dust was so thick. Nobody knew what was going on. I mean you really didn't. (inaudible) second building came down. While you're trying to absorb that and I'm sitting there. They are saying there is a gas main leak inside this high school. We have to evacuate this building.
Under those circumstances, there is very little - - because I mean I have been - - we have been in the city for 40 minutes and I was already - - I had already seen my third skyline in 40 minutes. Three different skylines in the same square footage. I said, well, this is certainly possible. Everybody took off.
On the other end we were taking off down by the water. Nobody had any idea where we were going. We were just getting away from the building. I found a few EMS people that were just wandering. Had nothing with them. They were not Bronx people. They weren't with their vehicles. They had no helmets. They had no equipment. They were just covered in dust.
I spoke to one of my medics, you know what we should probably do, because we were still swamped with civilians. Let's get the EMS people here and at least stay in one spot or move as a unit, because we already lost two guys, okay, and he shrugged. That didn't kind

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of work out. That didn't work out too well. I'm sure people have other priorities in life. They only half heard what you were saying. I ran into one of the paramedics over here who when I was a Lieutenant, was a new recruit, Darnowski, whose brother also works in the system, who, his wife worked in the building. He hadn't been able to contact her. He was virtually useless.
Actually what happened, a lot of people couldn't find their partners. There was a lot of disorientation going around. People were not in a position to follow orders. No matter how nicely you put it, you are not going to order them, you must do this or you must do that, but people were not in any kind of position where they were going to follow any direction other than what they thought was most important at the moment.
Darnowski was out of it. I put him with his - - put him with his partner and then sent them on
their way. Said you need to do this, you need to do this. Other people not so much. So it was definitely like a breakdown in discipline sort of. I'm not saying that to be critical. It's just that at that particular moment, nobody was paying attention. I wouldn't even

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have thought it myself. I felt I was sort of responsible, because a t that point, there were no officers. We lost J.R. outside.
This person, he was probably a Chief, he was nowhere to be found, so I didn't see anybody else who was around. We walked up about half a block and I ended up being I think they said it was North, West and North, I think was the cross streets.
Q. North End?
A. Manhattan College.
Q. Okay.
A. There were a few EMS people. There was a Red
Cross truck there that had shown up already. There were a couple of confused and lost looking fire people, and confused and l o s t looking EMS people. So I said, this looks like a good place to gravitate to, because we are confused and lost too. We kind of sort of took over the intersection. Again, nobody had a radio, nobody - -
Q.
very hard to --
Do you know about what time this was. It's
A. So sorry. I lost my watch when the ATF guy blocker tackled me. I did. About an hour maybe, possibly. Bumped into a Lieutenant, who I never met

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before. His name was Pinky. Don't know what his last name was. He was a little character. He was giving orders, yelling. He didn't need a radio because you could hear him two blocks away. I said what's your name. He was keeping his head. He was doing all
right. He said his name is Pinky, he worked in Manhattan. I didn't see him again. I was with him for half an hour and he kind of wandered off. This i s a t the point where everything I think, literally before the smoke cleared, people were doing sort of, a lot of free-lancing going on. There was a lot of -- whatever looked interesting is where people were milling
towards.
Whatever people didn't want to go anywhere near, they would go in the other direction. It was hard to get control of people. Really was hard to get control. There was a group of people there one minute and you say you know what guys, hang over there, we are going to get filters for you. The Red Cross is floating around.
We were trying to set up an infirmary in Manhattan College. We are trying to -- hang there, hang there. Jerry Santiago, Lt. Santiago was there. Me, Jerry and Pinky were the only Lieutenants in there

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at that point. And a few EMTs, and a lot of law enforcement. Jerry Doyle, a former Chief's aide from Manhattan came in his car. He showed up and he saw me, because he recognized me.
He came up, and we decided every Lieutenant there, since only one Lieutenant turned out to have a radio, was going to get one EMT and keep him as a partner. We were going to try to establish something at this point because we didn't even know, was there a command post. Somebody said they thought there was a command post set up at one of the piers. At least that was where some of the Chiefs said they were going.
The Academy bus showed up with a bunch of people who were students in refresher. We ran into a little problem with some of them. Some people ran into a little problem, because one or two of them got off and kind of assumed this was - - they were going to assume command. This is what they were waiting for and you can tell the people who weren't actually there, because they came out in clean shoes. Everyone else was the same color gray.
Pinky is sitting there spitting stuff out between his knees. One or two guys looking exhausted sitting on stretchers on North Street. Right after we

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evacuated for the third time. I'm sitting. I had an oxygen tank on. I lost my nitro. I was sitting with an oxygen tank. I'm waiting for the pain to go away. One or two EMTs were totally confused.
had just shown up and he thought he lost his car. He couldn't reach his wife, who
worked within a few blocks away. Nobody was in a state for this. And this mook, who has more bars than me, he said men, we are mobilizing a task force. I need a bunch of you. We're going to go back there and get in those vehicles, because there was a few vehicles. If he would have understood. Didn't get much from us at that moment.
I hate to say it, but most of us were just too tired and a number of them had been absolutely petrified. I mean they were still like this, totally out of it.
Q. Oh, yes oh, yes.
A. And one of the Lieutenants with me stood up and said clearly you have been nowhere near that spot, because if you were, the last thing you would be asking us to do right now is walk right back in there to get an ambulance. You're kidding me. He said somebody hurt in there? I said we are not going back in to get

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a vehicle. We just left it.
I mean a l l of us were covered. Forget about
it. Stuff in our eyes, cuts, bruises, equipment lost. Half the people we came with were lost. There were
s t i l l people saying I can't find my partner. This guy was going -- very strange, very strange stuff. He took off. The Chief grabbed him by the ear and said get in my car, we are gonna take a look at something.
Where this guy ended up, but we never saw him again. He is the first Chief we saw at that point.
Kind of talked to him. He said why don't you guys stay right here and I'll go a little further ahead, we'll find out what's going on and we w i l l decide what's up with this. There were a few people showing up at that point that had radios and could talk to somebody and find out what was going on. Half the people without their vehicles didn't even have portables.
Sounds stupid, but you realize how important communication i s a t a time like that. In a situation like this, you are dealing with word of mouth. An ambulance, any ambulance, a voluntary ambulance rolled by, and you stopped them and said where are you coming from. We are coming from -- who did you speak to down there, EMS people, what did they say, where are they

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sending you. That's how we were running things. Okay, there are people down there, they are sending one block up this way, so they must be setting something up over there.
That's where we found out where the initial command post was, because a bunch of ambulances came out of nowhere, in a motorcade, and the city bus came with people from Brooklyn. We just jumped on the city bus and came down. They saw me standing there. At that point I was the only white helmet standing there. So they stopped in front of me and said where do you want us? I said well, I have 30 ambulances from Jamaica Hospital, some voluntaries on this corner. I got about 10, 15 EMS ambulances on that corner. This is the infirmary.
I got one Lieutenant who showed up off duty. He didn't have a radio. There was another Lieutenant who I walked over there and met. I don't know where he was from. He showed up with a radio. He was probably actually assigned, who was taking care of that end over there and the transport on that side that nobody knew was there. We transported about 30 people in our vehicles and nobody had seen anybody over there. Very disorganized.

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They reported to me and said well, where did they tell you to go. They said, well they told us to go about a block that way. We saw you guys here.
That's when we found out there was something going on a block down. I took Neil since there were two Lieutenants there now. I took him and I walked up a block. I had a fireman who had come over on the
ferry. He gave me a business card with a radio frequency. He said, that ferry captain was over there. We were a block away from the ferry. All we had to do is go through a gate to the ferry.
He said, that Captain over there says he is ready to go. He would take people over to Jersey, but nobody i s calling him, nobody knows he's there. This is his radio frequency. This was a fireman that came from home. I said absolutely. So I did a head count. How many paramedics and EMTs I had. How many voluntary ambulances and how many municipal ambulances I had.
We had had a city bus show up with doctors and nurses, PAS. The cops had opened up Manhattan College and they did a great job setting up a hospital in there. Kind of a M.A.S.H. Somebody showed up with a tractor trailer from Duane Reade, and we had all the batteries, flashlights, and orange baskets we could

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handle, work gloves. They were handing them out t o anybody.
There was some people in that building, a Fire Marshal retrieved, transported. A lot of it was done verbally. I had kept eye contact with Neil. In the basement over there, there is a Fire Marshal. I told Steve, go over there. There is a guy holding his neck. Everything was like aye, aye, and verbal. I had my frequency, two Lieutenants and 3 ambulances. I was in charge. No one kind of knew we were there.
I ran into Joe Cahill. I saw him. I think he was kind of wandering around. I don't know who he came there with, but I don't think he was actually assigned to anybody at that point, because I turned around and he was backing up a voluntary ambulance to Manhattan College. I walked over and asked what are you doing here? He said I just went inside and talked to those doctors and they said they had no transportation. So I figured I would get them an ambulance.
Everybody at that point was a little bit -- they weren't looking a t the big picture, because a t that point the DOT was coming up to haul all the cars off the street so we could keep that block open. All

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sorts of bizarre little things went on. I walked to up t o what turned out t o be a command post about a block away. Saw a Captain who I didn't know at the time.
Now I know who he was. He was in this little saw horse area. There were a few Chiefs.
Q. Who was it?
A. Captain Musto. I had never met him. I went up to him and I gave him the frequency. And he's on the radio -- Lieutenant so and so, Lieutenant so and so. This is where we are. You cannot see us. But we are a block and a half over there. Where do you want us. Where do you want these people and by the way there is a ferry parked over there waiting. I'm waiting. I walked up to him, he says what's your name and shield number. He gets my name, Neil's, Steve's, because he was with me. He asks how many people did you bring from the Academy?
I ' m not from the Academy. I ' m from Division 6. We came with a small group of people, but now we have -- just then, one of the Chiefs walked up to him and stuck a finger in his chest and said "I told you, no one but Chiefs behind that line." He looked at me like this and the Chief turned to me and said sorry out. I ' m sorry. So (inaudible). Took the ambulances,

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(inaudible) radio frequencies. I don't know what they did.
These guys were besides themselves. Everybody was. I don't fault them. If he was the it man, if he was the guy that everyone was going to see, I don't know if I'd be in a good mood. Eventually all those people got organized and they got filtered in wherever. We stayed with them for a little while. There became an overabundance of people reporting in that area.
We got a radio, I found a van with a medic fromtheAcademy. Hewasdesignatedourrunnerbecause the one radio we did have among us went dead. So he was doing the running. They established another command post at one of the piers. There was another one further up the block. We decided we were going to take some of our resources. Lieutenant Trainer, I think was his name, showed up from Brooklyn. From Brooklyn with a couple of people. I don't know how he got there, in a van or a regular bus, they were on foot with their gear.
We established communication and they were asking for people here and they were asking for people there. So things were getting a little bit more

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organized.
Q. Do you have any idea what time frame we are
in now?
A. Had to be twoish I guess, somewhere in that
ballpark. We were there for a couple of hours. We were there for a couple of hours. Maybe even longer. By the time I left there there had to be 30 or 40 doctors at Manhattan College. Food had been delivered and it was being dispatched. We transported 20, 30 patients. Tracking was being done. Whichever Lieutenant was standing there without the radio is the one (inaudible).
Couple of guys showed up and said they told us to report here and set up a temporary morgue. So somebody knew that we were there. So as things got a little more organized, people started dispersing a little bit. Two other Lieutenants remained there. I walked up with Neil to the command post, because that was at the point where we had firemen working in the rubble.
All of a sudden the patient count stopped. We didn't see anybody. Then more and more free lancers started showing up. People identifying themselves as EMS employees who used to be on the job but are no

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longer. They were showing the old HHC I.D. card. All kinds of bullshit i s going on.
We went up and we reported over there. I reported to Captain Nahmod. He was setting up
(inaudible), Captain Rivera, he had set up a MERV and some triage, very close to building 7. They were setting things up as close as they could, because there were still people working in the area. Nobody was sure exactly how many people, because at that point there was so many free lancers showing up.
Somebody said they found a female that was on maternity modified on the pile. They took her off.
(inaudible) showed up. Nobody knew how many people was actually there. The Academy was telling everybody,
they said where the
Q.
come up to the school, which is right around command post was being set up a t that point. Building 7 came down.
Building seven came down I believe around
4:25?
A. Makes sense. At that point I had -- not St.
Barnabas New York, but some out of state St. Barnabas ALS units with a Chief show up. They were good enough, when we set up. They wanted me to set up five
stations, ALS, BLS, e t cetera, outside the MERV. The

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MERV is going to be separate. I was going to be here. Nahmod was my boss. These guys were ALS guys. They brought tons of equipment they set up. I had a couple of EMTs. They didn't have a home. We set up very nicely and we were waiting. The building came down, we were still waiting. And waiting. We didn't see anybody.
Occasionally an EMS person needed a little irrigation or like that. We stayed until Chief Pascale showed up and took us off the line.
Q. Okay. Do you have anything else you want to add to this in regard to the events that happened prior to like roughly noon?
A. Meaning what? I'm sorry.
Q. Anything that you feel that you forgot to mention as you were talking. Sometimes things pop into our head, oh, I should have mentioned this. If you don't, that's fine.
A. Under the circumstances, a lot of people, you know, performed very very well. In a case like Darnowski, who was very concerned about his wife, was still functioning, able to follow whatever direction I gave him. The direction was basically get away from here because he would have done what any one of us

M. CAHILL
would have done, walk up to the rubble, which other people had done for the same reason. They had spouses or whatever inside of the building. People performed very very well. Isaw people who for 14 years I thought that the sun rose and set on them collapse.
Isaw other people that Ihadn't thought very much of at all, walk right into the situation and take control. Do what I thought a t the time was exactly what they should be doing at that particular moment or at least the best that anybody could possibly hope to do at that particular moment, because the first couple of hours we were there, Idon't mean in terms of
free-lancing. The first few hours that we were there there was not much -- people would congregate in one space and a building would f a l l down and we scattered. Then smaller groups would get together and nobody was really sure who was in charge andIsaw very few people walking around looking like they were looking to duck something.
Most people were okay. Most people were doing exactly what they should be doing at that
moment. Very impressive. I didn't see anybody shaking any fingers at any voluntaries. Ididn't see anybody do anything like that. You see that constantly. I'm a

M. CAHILL
patrol boss out here. Conditions 18. I used to work with Barnabas units all the time. That was not a problem down there that day. Truly was not.
Communications was bad. The rumors were out of control. People who were showing up from Brooklyn and Queens, from outlying areas, a couple of hours after, came. I heard Chief McCracken and Chief Gombo were (inaudible) all day. That didn't help. We heard after we had already set up like a little hospital at Manhattan College about the Pentagon. That was the first time we heard it. I mean, we would normally hear WINS or something like that. That didn't help matters any. There was nothing you could do about it.
A big part of people's issues were their own families. You'd be surprised how many people who live and work in Manhattan and that was their primary concern. And while some of them cut out, because they couldn't reach home, a lot of people stayed right there.
My son goes to school in midtown and my mom works a little further uptown and I couldn't - - my cellphone was useless. Steve's cellphone was useless. Finally got an EMT that was good enough to give me a cellphone and I got through to his school that

M. CAHILL
announced that they would not release him from school unless someone came to pick him up. I said well you just need to understand where I am right now. I can't do that. I'm doing the single parent thing and I can't leave right now. They said well, then he stays the night.
A lot of people stayed. Some people took off and some of us stayed right there. I mean it was a difficult choice for I'm sure a lot of people. Jerry
(inaudible). Couldn't find his mother-in-law on the phone and when he did, he was told, I don't know, she was in the building, that's all. He stayed right where he was and did his job. Very impressive. I don't really have much else to add. Sorry.
Q. You gave us everything we wanted. Very helpful. Very very helpful.
A. (inaudible).
MR. ECCLESTON: That's what we are looking
for. I thank you very much for conducting this interview with me. This interview is being concluded at 1318 hours.

F i l e No. 9110144
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT MARY MERCED
Interview Date: October 23, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins

M. MERCED
MS. BASTEDENBECK: Today is October 23rd, 2001. The time now is 2312 hours. My name is Christine Bastedenbeck. I'm with the New York City Fire Department. Tonight I'm conducting an interview with the following individual.
Please state your name, your rank and your assignment.
EMT MERCED: EMT Mary Merced, Division 3.
MS. BASTEDENBECK: What's your rank, Mary?
EMTMERCED: EMT.
Q. Can you please give me your account of
the morning of September llth, 2001.
A. On September llth - - well, let me go
back. I work with Deputy Chief Goldfarb, and we were working 6 Charlie the night before. We had a meeting at 7:00 in the morning which exceeded our end of tour time.
Once we left the meeting, I was monitoring SOD and I heard a police officer yell there was an explosion in the World Trade Center. It came in broken up, but I made it out. I told

M. MERCED 3
the Chief, "Did you hear that?" He said he heard what I heard, but I had to repeat it. The police officer gets back on again and says about an airplane but didn't complete the word. I said,
"Oh, shoot." I said, "An airplane crashed into the World Trade Center."
heading Q. A.
here.
I quickly lit up the vehicle, and I'm towards Manhattan.
Where were you coming from?
We were coming from - - we had a meeting
At the division office?
Q.
     A.
office, right.
At the division office, the Division 3
I'm heading towards the Battery Tunnel, and all the while it's being confirmed, we're hearing it over EMS citywide and the PD radio and fire radio. When I was heading towards the Battery Tunnel, you could see the smoke on one of the towers. It was unbelievable. Initially I thought it was an accident.
So we proceeded, made our way in heavy traffic into the Battery Tunnel. The second plane must have hit while we were in the tunnel,

M. MERCED
because as soon as I came out, both buildings were on fire. I just looked up in awe. I never thought that I would ever see this.
It's ironic to talk about premonitions or stuff like that because two weeks prior to this -- I'm always talking about it. I always say that we're not prepared, that hazmat doesn't have enough training. I've got other training outside of here. I ' m a WMB technician, I got the national certification from Jersey City Medical Center and stuff like that.
I ' m always saying I learned more and I know that when I was taught in hazmat, they thought me this much is not enough. Chief Goldfarb, the funny thing when we started our 6 Charlie tour that Saturday night prior to this happening, he said, "Mary, you know what? I ' m going to check all the MERVs and the LSU trucks because if something happens then I'll be sure we're prepared." I t ' s funny, Saturday night, Sunday night and Monday night we did it. You wouldn't have thought that he would be right.
Anyway, we got to the scene. A bunch of fire trucks and police, fire equipment,

M. MERCED
everybody you can think of who was there were getting there or trying to get there. We got out of the vehicle. We grabbed the command board, something we seldom use. We used it one other time on a job.
I parked on the West Side Highway between Albany and Liberty Street, number one X marked on the map. We proceed up the West Side Highway towards the south tower. I see Chief Goldfarb is on the radio and I believe he's talking t o Chief Gombo who i s i n the south tower.
Chief Goldfarb says, "Come on, Mary."
I said, "Where are we going?" He said, "We're going into the south tower." I t ' s customary we set up treatment and triage in the fire building. I look up and I said, "Chief, we're not going into this building. I said, Chief, the fucking shits going to fall," never anticipating the whole building but I just thought the floors up there.
I said, "This is not an ordinary fire."
I said, "
He said, "Mary, calm down." He probably thought I was being hysterical. He was thinking I was
11

M-. MERCED -being hysterical. I was just putting my foot
down.
He gets on the radio. I don't know what he spoke to Chief Gombo about. He said,
"Come on." I said,
I said, "We have off-duty people here. We have units here, they need supervision, they're running around. He looked at me. I don't know what he told Gombo. We collected people. I took this off-duty guy - - I don't remember his name - - so he could help with the command board.
We also had Kevin Darnowski. He was off-duty but in uniform. He was on the way home when it happened, and his wife worked in the north tower on the 90th floor. He told me that hiswifewasinthatbuilding. Igavehimahug and I told him, I said, "Don't go in that building. You stay with me because she may have gone out."

M. MERCED
All the time we saw debris falling, people either jumping or falling.
Q. Where did you set the command board up?
A. Okay. We went to - - fire had a command post across the street, right about here.
Q. By Two World Financial?
A. Maybe between here.
Q. On the West Side Highway, somewhere
near Two World Financial?
A. Off the West Side Highway. So we were
there. I set up my command board right by Fire, behind their's. There was an underground driveway right behind them. That's where we were, outside. Then the chiefs were there.
(Inaudible) so they can see what's what.
Chief Goldfarb after a while, he says,
"Mary, I want you to take everybody and move back into the entranceway to the underground driveway." So we did that. I'm over here trying to get units down. As a matter of fact, we had units down, that I put down on the command board that's still not erased.
After a while he said, "You know what, I don't like the way this looks, Mary." He said,

M. MERCED
come, Mary, everybody, we're going to go." We went up to Vesey and West. We went up to Vesey and West. That's where we saw a lot of supervisors and units.
All the while I'm like holding Kevin Darnowski's hand, because I didn't want him to go into that building. I knew if I let go of him, he would be gone.
I look up at the north tower, and I see see colors all the way up there. I'm thinking to myself, geez, I said, is that clothes? I thought since the airplane crashed there, I'm thinking about maybe it's the clothes from the luggage or something. Then I see something else drop. Then I look. I see debris drop. And I look, and it was people. I could tell you almost every color clothing all the people that I saw fall had on, how they fell, if they tumbled, if they swan-dived.
There was this one woman. She was dressed in white. by this time, he was in shock, almost catatonic. He said, "Mary, do you see that woman falling in white? He said, my wife had the same clothes when she left this

morning. "
M. MERCED
I had LO look because I knew we were close to the buildings and some of
the people falling, debris was falling, and I had to watch out for that. And the noise of the people hitting the ground.
We were about ten yards from and the fire apparatus that was there, firemen and the ESU truck was there. We had set up a staging area with the buses on Vesey Street facing south.
ESU, anyway, they threw us out of that intersection. They said, "We want everybody out. This is a tactical area." I didn't understand what that meant at that time, but I soon found out they expected some ground attack of some sort.
The chief told us to go over in front of the American Express building, everybody set up their equipment and everything else in case we had any patients coming to this side.
Q. When you set up by the American Express, you were still on the West Side Highway

M. MERCED
side or you were on Vesey Street?
A. We were here. The buses were here.
Q. OnVesey.
A. Facing south on Vesey, for egress. The
chief had everybody go in front of the American Express building with their equipment, stretchers and everything, you know, the usual stuff. After a while the chief says, "You know what? I want everybody inside the building. I want everybody inside. I don't want anybody outside the building."
As a matter of fact, Lillo was in our crowd initially. I'm thinking to myself - - I knew his wife was in there, probably (inaudible). Quinn was a friend of mine too.
Anyway, everybody went inside the building, and I took it to Captain (inaudible). He works at Metrotech. He was with a group of supervisors. The chief and I, we were on West Street. We came back over this way. I tell you, all this time I don't hear any radio transmissions or anything. It was looking and doing automatically. I wasn't even so much concerned for my safety. We just do what we've

got to do.
M. MERCED
All of a sudden, that's it, you hear the rumbling and i t ' s getting louder and louder. I'm like, oh, shit. He said, "Mary, run!" I'm thinking, oh, shit, the building's falling. He's saying, "Mary, run!"
We turned around and ran west on the West Side Highway.
Q. You ran north?
A. I'm sorry, this is north? I'm sorry. Q. On the West Side Highway?
A. Yeah, so then the buses were facing
the --
Q. They were facing east or west? A. They were facing west.
Anyway, we were running north. We got around the corner on Vesey Street, and there was an ambulance, like the last ambulance in the staging area, with the doors open. The chief jumped in there. But I had passed him, so I was like in front of the bus. I remember he said, "Mar." I turned around, and I ' m looking a t
this --
I can't even explain this. Everything

M. MERCED 12
is like in slow motion, like time stood still and it was slow motion. But I knew I couldn't turn back and go to the bus, so I had to keep on running.
So I'm running, and I'm worried about the chief, that he's there. Nobody expected those buildings to implode. They were thinking, it's going to topple. When it's falling, you think it's going to topple. Where is it going to go?
So I'm running, and people are running in front of me. They stop. They turn around. I think everything's over with. So I stop, all of a sudden the thing is coming at us. It was like in dark hell, like a nuclear blizzard. I couldn't explain it. You couldn't see in front of you. You couldn't breathe. You're inhaling. You're coughing. You're running. You can't see anything.
Once the building fell - - because you could hear it - - you couldn't hear anymore. Everything was silent. It was like if I was in a desert. I turned around and police officers are telling me, and other people, that we can't go

M. MERCED 13
back. I said, "I'm going back." I said, "The chief is over there, and I've got people over there and I've got to find them."
So when I went back, the first person I saw like through this cloud is Danny Rivera from Battalion 31. I looked at him. We both were in shock, of course, like everybody was. I said, "Are you okay, Danny?" He said, "Yeah, Mary, I ' m okay." I said, "Where are you going? Don't go back there, Danny." He said, "I've got to find my partner." Everybody was concerned about finding their partners. You know how it is.
I'm on the radio trying to call the chief. He's not answering me. In the mean time I'm thinking about chemical and biological secondary devices or i f it was there. There was a Hazollah bus, and I said, "Danny, come, we've got to get masks." We got masks. I was handing out masks. Whatever they had there, I gave them out to people. I don't know.
So I'm calling the chief. He finally answers me. I said, "Are you okay?" He said, "Yeah, I'm fine." He asked me where I was. I had made it back up towards North End. They had

M. MERCED 14
I believe i t ' s the Embassy Hotel Suites. We were there. Chief Kowalczyk was there, Mike Ober. He helps as an EMT at Battalion 39. Chief Villani, the guy in the MERV. Police officers, firemen, hacking, coughing. I had my water. I was sharing my water with the firemen, with
civilians.
Chief Goldfarb finally came. We just started taking care of patients. We just turned the lobby of the Embassy Hotel Suites into a treatment triage transport area or whatever. We had I think it was a fire chief who had a dislocated shoulder. We had burns to legs, people in shock, minor injuries, leg, arm, smoke.
I remember they brought Gary Smiley from Battalion 31. They brought him on a stretcher. I believe he on -- he threw himself under one of the apparatuses when the building f e l l . I think some people got hosed down, so they brought him in. He was in shock, all wet and everything else.
He wanted to quickly get off the stretcher to go back. I'm saying, "Gary --" Gary i s hyper anyway. "Gary, you're not going

M. MERCED 15
anywhere." "No, I've got to go back." I know he's not thinking clearly. I said, "Gary, you made it out alive. Don't go back and do something stupid." I said, "Stay here. Regroup. You don't know what's going to hit next."
It's a funny thing, because I forgot to mention when Danny Rivera and I made eye contact there was an airplane overhead. You couldn't see up in the sky. You couldn't see anything.
Danny, myself and I'm sure everybody else, we were ducking like trying to see where it's going to hit. All the psychological games that come after all of this. At that time you didn't know whether it was going to hit or not.
I remember during that time as well the only radio transmission that I heard was Captain Deshore's. When she said she was heading towards Jersey and she was injured along with some other M.O.S., she was in need of medical assistance and they were taking a lot of people over there. That's the only transmission I heard. Anything else, everything was dead.
Chief Gombo was with us, with other chiefs as well, at the Embassy Hotel Suites.

M. MERCED 16
They don't know what's going on, what's going to happen next, rather. So we had some people transported off the scene to hospitals, and the chiefs, they met and they discussed what their next plan was going to be.
I remember the chiefs were in front of the Embassy Hotel Suites, and I'm there. I said, "Chief, I hear the rumbling noise. The other building's going to fall." He said, "I don't hear anything, Mary." I said, "Chief, the other building's going to fall." The other chiefs are looking at me like I'm going crazy. I said, "Chief Goldfarb, you know I have a keen sense of hearing. The other building is going to fall."
Sure enough, another 30 seconds later, it got louder and louder. Then everybody is going to run, because we didn't see where the building toppled because we didn't know it imploded because you couldn't see anything.
So now we're running, and we go back inside the building here and you couldn't go past the Embassy Hotel Suites because you could see the World Trade Center from there too. It's a big open area on the other side. So we ran back

M. MERCED 17
in there and moved everybody to the left of the lobby, because they have an atrium there on the right, in case it topples on top of that building.
So we were there, and it fell. Of course more smoke, more stuff, papers everywhere. We got a little bit more patients. The chiefs, they do what they do, and I ' m helping people, as well as the other medics, EMTs. Then some of the chiefs disappeared. I don't know where they went to.
Then we heard that there was a gas leak in the hotel, so we had to evacuate there. So we evacuated there, and we headed north on North
End. That's when Chief Gombo -- they decided Chief Goldfarb would go with Chief Gombo t o 1 PP because there was no more -- 7 Metrotech, because there was no more OEM over there.
So that's where we went. We went along with Lieutenant Terranova. That's his name; right?
Q. Ross Terranova?
A. Ross, yes, Terranova.
Q. I noticed that you said 7 Metrotech,

but you OEM is? A. Q. A.
M. MERCED 18 meant Seven World Trade - - right - - where
Yeah, I'm sorry. That's okay. I'm sorry. Good
thing you picked it
up. I didn't realize it. We went to 1 PP,
Chief Gombo along with Chief Goldfarb, made decisions and stuff like
that. So that's where we were. We didn't sleep. The chief and I went back - - that same night we went back to the site. There was an EMS operation.
Q. At Vesey and West?
A. No.
Q. Chambers and West?
A. Chambers and West. Yeah, at Chambers
and West. We were there like every day. Then we hear that people are missing. They had the chief and I missing. Then the frustration not knowing who's missing, who's here, who's not.
It happened, and I was down there yesterday. I know it happened, but it still hasn't registered. I'm pissed at my job for the lack of support. Just the fact that everyone

M. MERCED
(inaudible),my family, everyone's family, I'm sure. I mean, we've seen how much support we've gotten throughout the United States and the country, which is great.
1 t ' s ironic because during this whole incident I wasn't -even concerned about my safety.
I'm here now and I'm not like - - while I'm lucky to be alive, I had a brush with death, you know, I don't even think about it that way. We all did what we had to do, everybody down there. I've gained respect for many people, many people, and lost some for some.
It's going to take a while for everybody to heal because the scars are what's going LO remain.

M. MERCED
I never, never take my cell phone with me on the job. I
always leave it in my purse or in the car. This day I took it. I didn't even think about it.
My ex-husband called me on the phone. He said, "You're there, aren't you?" That day he had to pick up the girls for his visitation. He said, "You're there, aren't you?" I said, "You cannot believe what I'm looking at. You won't believe it." I said, "You know what? Tell the kids that I love them. I don't know when I'm coming home."
I knew it was going to be a long operation. My family didn't hear from me until that night because the phones were down, the cells were down. Even my childhood friends called my mother, and my daughter who lives upstate, she was frantic.
But I thank God that decisions that were made that day, even by Chief Goldfarb, putting those people in there. It would have been worse because we had 50 people easy. It would have been much worse.

M. MERCED 21
But support that I've seen. I know everybody - - who knows, maybe everybody gets television, especially something of this magnitude. But,youknow,thedusthassettled. We should get better, but I don't see that and I don't feel it and I don't feel support. I really don't.

M. MERCED 22
By the way, wife, she was safe in Brooklyn Hospital. He was a wreck.
Unfortunately Lillo went in the building. Aside from that, he was working. As you saw in the pictures, he was working anyway. Quinn, a buddy of mine, that's how he is. I would have done the same thing. I would have done the same thing. Even though I was on light duty, I would have done the same thing.
(Tape ended abruptly.)
File No. 9110145
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       EMS CHIEF ZACHARY GOLDFARB
   Interview Date:  October 23, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
Z. GOLDFARB
2
          MR. ECCLESTON:  Today's date is October 23rd,
2001.  The time is 2318 hours and this is Christopher
Eccleston of the New York City Fire Department, World
Trade Center Task Force.  I am conducting an interview
in regards to the events of September 11th, 2001, with
the following individual:
          Please state your name, rank, and assigned
command.
          CHIEF GOLDFARB:  Zachary Goldfarb, EMS Deputy
Chief assigned to Division 3.
     Q.   Chief Goldfarb, were you working on the
morning of September 11th, 2001?
A. Yes.
     Q.   Were you assigned to the World Trade Center
disaster?
A. Yes.
     Q.   Can you please tell me the details of the
day?
     A.   Yes.  We were actually working starting from
the night before.  We started working on the 10th at
2200 as car 6 Charlie EMS Citywide chief.  I had a
relatively uneventful shift and we stayed here in our
office in Division 3 at the end of the tour for a
little while.  We were in a meeting with some staff
Z. GOLDFARB
3
people here.  We left here somewhere around 0830 and
were heading home, basically, heading off duty.
          As we were heading out on Linden Boulevard,
monitoring police special operations frequency, we
heard someone scream over the police radio, Central, a
commercial aircraft just hit the World Trade Center.
Immediately I picked up the EMS Citywide radio and told
the dispatcher to assign us to the job.  I don't even
think they knew at that moment that there was a job
because it was just instantaneous and we spun around
and started heading out Linden Boulevard.
          Do you want to know our route of travel or
any of that?
Q. Sure.
     A.   We headed west on Linden Boulevard from -- we
were just about at Pennsylvania Avenue, so we headed
west on Linden Boulevard from Pennsylvania Avenue.  I
was anticipating morning inbound rush-hour traffic to
begin with let alone a problem with the Trade Center,
and then I was anticipating that the Battery Tunnel
would probably be open and clear for us to get
through.  So I said to my aide, Mary Merced, I said
let's go out and take the streets down to the Battery
Tunnel and we should be able to get through the tunnel
Z. GOLDFARB
4
and stay off the highway because knowing from how these
types of events unfold that the highway tends to get
messed up.
          So we went west on Linden, continued out, hit
the traffic circle by Prospect Park, went around, got
onto the Prospect Expressway westbound for about two
exits because we could see it was blocked up, jumped
off down to the streets and worked the streets down to
Hamilton Avenue right down into the mouth of the
tunnel.  We made really good time, I think, given the
distance and the circumstances.
          As we got to the Prospect Expressway, that
was where we saw the first sight of the towers.  At
that point my impression was that the first plane had
hit but not the second plane.  As best as I can
remember, there was one tower burning and you could see
a huge volume of fire and a lot of damage, and our
immediate assessment was this was going to be a major
event.  Actually, we used some other words, but I don't
want to put them on tape.
          During the course of our trip, my feeling
was, I was the Citywide chief and I was still logged on
as the Citywide chief.  I didn't know what other chief
officers might have been on duty in the morning, but
Z. GOLDFARB
5
clearly this needed some heads-up activity.  So while
Mary was driving, I was on the phone with the Citywide
dispatch supervisor giving him some direction, and
among the direction I gave him was to set up task
forces in each borough consisting -- I believe I told
him ten ambulances and an officer in each borough for a
total of 50 and to mobilize them at two crossing points
but hold them fast because I didn't know what we were
going to need.
          I have to tell you that at this point there
was no thought at all given on my part to this being
anything other than an accident of some sort.  Despite
training and I think a very high level of consciousness
about terrorism and things of that nature, it didn't
occur to me at that point in time that this was any
kind of an attack, just some sort of an event  where a
plane hit the building.
          It was an absolute beautiful day.  The sky
was just a perfect blue and not a cloud in the sky.
Heavy smoke plumed up coming off the north tower.  So
we came by Hamilton Avenue.
          As I was saying, I was on the phone with I
think it was Larry Tobin, who was the Citywide dispatch
supervisor, and I was giving him some direction.  I
Z. GOLDFARB
6
broke off with him, then I called him back.  I told him
to activate our regional mutual aid agreement with the
Office of Emergency Management.  I told him to activate
our agreement with the Private Ambulance Association
and mobilize all our mutual aid agreements and get
everybody moving because it was obvious that this would
be a very large patient-producing event.
Unfortunately, it didn't work out that way.  Actually,
it did work out that way.  Anyway...
          But those were the things we were putting in
place on the way in.  Now, I don't know what other
direction anyone else was giving.  Among other things I
told him was everybody off the radio.  I just wanted
EMS officers on the radio and nobody else.  So, again,
I don't know what other direction he might have been
getting, but he was certainly listening to the stuff I
was telling him, and Larry and I work very well
together.
          So we got to the tunnel.  There was already a
line, a whole procession of emergency vehicles lined up
trying to get into the tunnel.  My aide is very good at
dodging traffic, so we kind of wove our way around and
drove right into the tunnel, and we got about halfway
through the tunnel and traffic was stopped.  We were in
Z. GOLDFARB
7
the Manhattan bound lane, but it was two-way traffic.
We tried to get around them into the oncoming lane, but
there's really no wiggle room in that tunnel, it's very
tight, and everything was stopped dead.
          One thing I remember is that everybody had
their sirens on and, of course, the tunnel is not a
place for a siren and nothing was moving, so it was
very noisy in there.  So after seeing that we were
stopped dead for a couple of minutes and there were
police officers out on foot in front of us, I felt that
we were really kind of close to Manhattan.
          So, as Mary knows, I have no tolerance for
sitting in traffic when I have somewhere to be.  So I
said sit here, I'm going to get out and pull the
traffic, and it was my intent to find my way to the
front of this line and pull it so that we can get out
of that tunnel because we needed to be out.  Also,
while we were in the tunnel we were off the radio, so I
didn't know what was going on.
          So I walked up somewhat to where there was a
police officer and he told me that traffic was blocked
up because of the blockage on West Street and they're
working on it but we weren't able to get out just yet.
So at that point I sort of had to acknowledge that I
Z. GOLDFARB
8
guess we weren't moving very far for a few minutes and
I walked back to the car, and on my way -- actually, on
my way up to the police officer in a car a few car
lengths in front of us was one of our off-duty medics,
and I don't remember his name right at the moment, but
Mary will know in a second and she's probably telling
Christine right now.
          He rolled down his window very panicked and
he was like chief, chief, and I recognized him.  I just
can't remember his name at the moment.  Darnowski.  One
of the two Darnowskis, Kevin or Jim, one of them.  I'm
like what's up?  He said my wife is in that building.
I got to get to her.  I said listen.  Try and relax.
We'll be out of the tunnel in few minutes.  When we get
out, follow me in to the job, stay with me, we'll find
your wife.  Very unnerving kind of situation.
          Then, as I was walking back from the police
officer, a woman runs up to me and, again, we're in the
middle of the Battery Tunnel here.  A woman runs up to
me and the woman is completely hysterical and she's
screaming.  You've got to help me.  You've got to help
me.  I said what's the matter?  She said my son is in
the car and he can't breathe.  What's wrong with your
son?  Her son had a tracheostomy and she said it was
Z. GOLDFARB
9
clogged, and I look toward her car, which was a few car
lengths behind us, and I can see that there is a boy, a
child in the back seat of the car in his car seat, and
he's awake and breathing but maybe he looked like he
was in a little distress.
          I'm thinking to myself I need to be at this
Trade Center.  How can I  drive away from this little
boy?  We're stuck here in the tunnel anyway.  Maybe
I'll take Darnowski and tell Darnowski to go help this
little boy while we pull out of the tunnel, and even as
I'm having these thoughts, traffic opens up and now we
have to move because we're in the column.  So I said to
the lady, we're moving out of the tunnel now.  Keep
going out of the tunnel.  As soon as you get out, make
a left and drive around to the hospital.  She said
okay.  Apparently she was on her way to the doctor or
to the hospital at the time.  So I was like all right,
that's one less thing to worry about.
          So I told Darnowski get in his car, follow
us.  Traffic moves up.  We pull out.  We pull out onto
West Street and this is like -- it's funny because it's
almost like you thought it wouldn't get worse.  Of
course, we've seen it got a lot worse.  But it was real
bad.  A lot of apparatus.  At this point the second
Z. GOLDFARB
10
tower is going.  Huge fire.  Huge.  You know, in
retrospect, I look back and I say we should have
thought those towers might not hold.  There was a huge
volume of fire.  But, you know, it was so far up that
it's almost away.  It's like you can't really get a
measure of it.  So there was a lot of fire, there was
debris in the street, body parts in the street, people
all over the place, and you kind of tunnel in a little
bit, you know?
          So we're driving down and I'm thinking of all
the stuff I want to bring from the car out to the
scene.  Mary, as she always says, where do you want me
to stop?  I'm like, all right, just keep pulling up.
We're now going northbound on West Street.  Let me
refer to the map.  So West Street is a divided street
here and we're in the northbound lanes going north and
we're weaving away and the cops or traffic folks,
whatever, they're doing a pretty good job of moving
traffic along.
          At some point, I want to say probably around
Albany Street, I guess, we cross over.  There's a break
in the median and we cross over, so now we're going
northbound on the southbound side.  There's stuff
coming off the building.  So we stopped -- I think our
Z. GOLDFARB
11
final stopping place was south of the pedestrian
bridge.  I'm trying to get this right.  Maybe somewhere
around Cedar Street, but we're on the west side of West
Side Highway parked up against the curb facing north,
and we're south of this pedestrian bridge.  The staging
area that they had transmitted was Vesey and West, and
there was no way we were going to get up there and
there was no way to walk around it, and it was a good
stopping place and there were plenty of other people
and, quite honestly, if the building hadn't collapsed,
I'm sure it probably would have been fine.
     Q.   Can you just indicate on the map where you
had parked your car?  To the best of your memory.
     A.   I'm want to say somewhere like here.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   Something like that.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   So we get out of the car and there's stuff
coming off the buildings.  There's people coming off
the building.  We go around and we have a routine.  We
always try and do everything by routine because my
feeling is, when you do everything by routine, then
when there's a real crisis, you just follow the
routine.  I mean, I teach a lot, as you know.  People
Z. GOLDFARB
12
do in a crisis what they do every day.  So even in our
routine, garden variety MCIs and responses, we always
follow the same protocol, take the same equipment.  We
approach everything in the same way, very standard.  So
we pulled on the scene, we gave an 84 on the KDT.  We
got out of the vehicle.  I said, okay, we're going to
take the command board, we're going to take the vests.
          The funny thing about the vests, because
we've been carrying these command vests, I've been
carrying them for years, since before we merged, and we
had them made over after the merge and they said FDNY
on them, but we have never deployed them, and when we
set up the new car the day before, Mary was like, why
are you carrying these vests?  Why do you keep carrying
them, chief?  You'll never need them.  I said, well,
you know, one day there will be a big job and then
we'll really wish we had them, so we're going to keep
carrying them.  Then here we are the next day and we
needed the vests.  So it's very strange.
          Another strange little vignette I'll tell you
is that when we started our 6 Charlie work that week,
which was Sunday night, Saturday night, Sunday Tour 1,
I said to Mary, I think -- she said do we have any
plans for this week?  I said I think what I want to do
Z. GOLDFARB
13
this week is I want to do inspections on all the MERVs
and LSUs and I want to prepare a report for Chief Gombo
of what their hardware stock levels are because I just
somehow have a gut feeling that they're not at a level
that we think they are, you know, ready to respond to a
big event.
          So on Sunday Tour 1 we went to Bellevue and
checked Manhattan's MERV and LSU, inspected it,
documented it, I'm sorry I'm off by a day, on Monday
Tour 1 we went to Manhattan.  On Tuesday Tour 1, the
morning of this event, we were in Queens.  At 4:00 a.m.
I had Mike Sheridan out of his office and we got the
LSU running and checking all the stuff.  In fact, when
I saw Sheridan a couple weeks ago, he said, boy, you
had a premonition?  I said you know what?  I have no
idea if I had a premonition or not, but just something
was nagging me about those MERVs and LSUs.
          So anyway, we pull up at the scene, get out
of our car, we start to gear up in our safety coats and
our helmets and stuff, which is just routine for us, we
take our radios.  One of the things that was
interesting was that, thinking independently, you know,
we have our department cell phone and usually we get
out at a scene and she takes the cell phone.
Z. GOLDFARB
14
Independently, both of us opted to take our own
personal cell phones with us.  In my mind, I had been
thinking, I know the Department cell phone is on AT&T,
which isn't always the most reliable, mine is on
Verizon, if something big is going on at the Trade
Center, you know, I might need the one as an
alternative to the other, so I grabbed my private one
and she apparently thought also of taking her private
one.  So we both left the car with three cell phones
between us as well as all our standard radio
equipment.  We went to the trunk, took out the command
board and the vest set, and the command board is a big
thing, so we're dragging this thing.
          Okay.  So we get out of the car and we start
making our way over to the Fire command post.  I have
to tell you that I can't for the life of me tell you
how I knew where it was.  I just don't remember.  But
we weren't dodging around.  We went straight forward to
the Fire command post, maybe we just saw it, which was
in -- there's a parking garage that I think is right
here.  I'm depicting just south of the north pedestrian
bridge, which would be between Winter Garden entrance
and 3 World Financial Center.  I think that there's a
driveway.  I think this is the placement of it, but
Z. GOLDFARB
15
it's somewhere in here between these buildings.  But I
think the driveway is here.  It's like a divided
driveway to an underground garage and that was where
Fire command post was set up.
          So we walk along here and make our way to
the -- you know what?  I'm thinking maybe it was here.
One of these two places.  You can go there and look
where it is, okay?  But wherever that Fire command post
was, that's where we went.  It's one of those two
places.  So we're walking along and along the way
Darnowski hooked up with us and said he was coming with
us and we picked up another I say stray because there
was a lot of this going along.  We picked up another
off-duty member who we recognized, Mary probably knows
who it was, I don't remember, and told him to come with
us.  So our jolly band of paras went over to the
command post.
          We got to the command post.  Chief Ganci was
there.  There was no EMS representation at all at the
Fire command post.  Nobody was there.  A Field Com was
there.  They had set up the table.  Now, I knew at this
point that Chief Gombo was on the scene and I think I
was under the impression he had taken command.  So I
told Mary -- again, we have a standard approach to
Z. GOLDFARB
16
this.  So I told her all right, set up the command
board, let's start documenting who is here and get the
information, start setting up command.  I knew there
was command on the scene and I wasn't trying to take
command but rather just get the information to support
command.  I called on the command frequency to command
and I think it was Ross Terranova that answered the
radio.  I think he was working with Chief Gombo, and I
said we're on the scene, we're at the fire command
post, what's your pleasure?  So he said stand by, and
then he came back at some point and said report to the
lobby of building 2.
          Then in the meantime, during this lag of
time, I said a couple words to Chief Ganci.  He was
being very frustrated about his radio.  I remember
this.  He was like what's that?  What channel is this?
Am I on the right channel?  Goddamn it, the radios
aren't working.  He was very frustrated about his
radio.  Chief Ingram, Bob Ingram, was there and I
talked to him briefly.  Chief Burns was there and the
Field Com crew, a bunch of other people, no EMS
people.  So I said okay, I'm here, you know, I'm
reporting and I'm here, whatever you guys need, and
they basically didn't have anything to tell me, I
Z. GOLDFARB
17
guess.  So I had Mary set up the command board and
start documenting who was on the scene.
          So she started doing that.  She had the two
tagalongs helping her, and I'm looking out at the scene
and there was stuff coming down.  In fact, when we got
out of the car, there was a lot of stuff coming down
and I have to say that I was a little bit fearful that
we were going to get hit with something coming down,
you know, there was debris, there were I guess what I
later learned were pieces of people coming down off the
building.  We got out of the car and Mary was like
transfixed.  She was just staring at this thing.
          One of the things that I've learned over time
is sometimes it's better not to look at stuff because
sometimes you don't want to see things, you know?  You
see them, you start thinking about them, and then you
can't do your job.  But, of course, the downside is
sometimes there's stuff that you don't see that you
need to see.  So anyway, Mary is just transfixed and I
remember I had to tell her about five times, you know,
we're prepared, let's go.  She was just -- I don't
know.  It was like, come on, Mary, let's go, and so we
went, we proceeded on.
          So as we're standing at the Fire command post
Z. GOLDFARB
18
looking at that stuff, you know, we're looking at
what's going on, I told her and the other two guys, I
said get in under the mouth of the garage.  Everybody
else was on the tarmac almost like at the curb -- not
at the curb but kind of midway between the garage
entrance and the curb where they were operating, and I
said get under the overhang of the building so that
you'll be shielded from stuff coming down.  So they
went down there and did that.
          So I call command, as I said, and they tell
me the chief says report to the lobby of building 2.
So I called down to Mary.  I was standing at the
command area and Mary and the other two were down under
this overhang and I called Mary and said come on, get
the stuff, we're going over to the lobby of building 2,
and I start to walk out to the street and my aide, who
certainly earned her living watching my backside that
day, looks up and sees stuff coming off this building
and me, I mean, I don't know how far I actually would
have gone, but I was prepared to follow orders and
charge across the street and she was like, chief, you
can't go across the street, there's debris coming down,
I was like, come on, Mary, let's go.  We've got to
report to Chief Gombo, and she got upset with me.  She
Z. GOLDFARB
19
was like, listen, you can't go across the fucking
street, there's fucking debris coming down, and at that
point, I guess, I looked up and I realized that she was
right.  There was like a shower of stuff coming off
this building.
          I have to tell you that standing below this
building where we were standing looking up at a fire
that was -- I don't even know what floor the fire was
on, 80 or 50 or 70 or something like that.  We didn't
appreciate the extent of damage to the building that
you would have appreciated if you were standing in
Brooklyn or Jersey City looking at it, and in
retrospect -- and I think about this day and night, but
in retrospect, I think it's possible that the command,
personnel in command, if they could have seen what you
would see from Brooklyn, might have had a different
assessment of the hazards of the building than what you
could see from the street because you're basically
looking straight up a vertical cliff, two vertical
cliffs, and you're seeing the bottom of some smoke and
fire and you see debris or whatever, but I don't think
you had a full appreciation of the extent of damage,
how many floors, the size of damage.  Now, they may
have had other sources of information for that.  I
Z. GOLDFARB
20
don't know.  But this is just my own assessment and I
have no other source of information.
          So anyway, I heeded my bodyguard and I called
command back on the radio and said we're not able to
make it across the street at this point.  I'm at the
Fire command post.  There's no EMS representation
here.  Do you want me to take a liaison role here?  He
said okay, ten four.  So I do that.  So I come back
to -- I guess a deputy from Division 1 was there and I
just said okay, I'm here as your liaison, tell me what
you need, and in the meantime my team was working on
getting an assessment of what we have on the scene and
they started writing up the command board, which is
still downstairs written up and everything.
          We were there, I don't know, five or ten
minutes and then Chief Kowalczyk reports to the command
post.  As we had left Brooklyn, as we were heading out
of Brooklyn, I called him on the phone, he was here in
the office, and I told him, I said, Walter, big job,
World Trade Center, we need you, come on out.  But he
was already moving.  I think he heard the second alarm
transmitted and he was already moving.  So he reported
to the Fire command post and I briefed him on what I
had known, the little information I had at that point,
Z. GOLDFARB
21
and he said okay.  He said go down to Vesey and West
and take command there of operations on Vesey and
West.
          I have to tell you that at this point, up
until this point, I'm saying to myself, I know this
job.  I've been here before.  I was there in '93.  I
was the south tower commander in '93.  I've seen this
building in peril, I've seen a thousand patients.  I
mean, there's nothing freaky about it.  It's just a big
job.  Okay.  We've done big jobs.  I do this.  So I
think that -- maybe I'm projecting now -- many of us
were thinking that kind of thought.  So he tells me go
down to Vesey and West and take charge there.  Okay.
          So I leave the Fire command post and I
proceed now north on -- I take my little band of
warriors and we proceed north on West Street up to the
corner of Vesey and West.  We're in the southbound
lanes of travel walking.  We encounter probably about,
right around here, we encounter about 40 or 50 EMS
providers with stretchers and equipment and all sorts
of stuff just standing, basically, not engaged in
anything, just standing by waiting for instructions
right here in the southbound lanes of traffic just
along the median.
Z. GOLDFARB
22
          I see Jace Pinkus is there with them and I
think Howie Hahn, who is a lieutenant, I think it was
Howie Hahn he was with, and the scene over here was
basically these streets were kind of clear because
there was stuff coming down.  North of Vesey on West
Street were lines of ambulances and apparatus parked
here or staged here or trying to get through here or
stuff like that and there were all these members on the
street, and they weren't treating patients.  There were
no patients apparent at that point in time.  So I
called all the officers together, which I think it was
Pinkus and Hahn and I'm not sure of what other officers
there were.  It was just sort of a motley crew.  There
were EMS guys and voluntary guys and Hatzolah guys and
numerous other people that looked like they were part
of an ambulance team.
          I called them together and I told them that I
was taking command of Vesey and West and that I wanted
to set up a triage and treatment area, and I told them
to set it up in front of, that is to say, on the east
side of 3 World Financial Center, on the street there.
There's a pretty large, open kind of climate over
there.  I told them I wanted them to set up over
there.  I told them I wanted them to clear the street
Z. GOLDFARB
23
and I said be aware that there was debris coming down
from the buildings, so hug the building as close as you
can, 3 World Financial Center.  I told Captain Pinkus
to make sure he had accountability of the people who
were in this area, all of these people are now his, so
you've got Hahn and whatever other officer might have
been there.  I said go over there and establish
accountability and prepare to set up to treat
patients.
          My strategy at that point was that we would
be getting patients probably coming out of 1 World
Trade Center trying to evacuate and the injured there,
we would handle them there.  At this point I was not
thinking of triage and treatment in the lobby of 1
World Trade Center.  I didn't feel that it was safe to
be operating on West Street, you know, on the street or
close to the front of the building, so I wouldn't have
committed anybody at that point.  Remember I had
already made the decision not to go first to 2, so we
weren't going to go across to 1.  So I pull them up
against the building.
          Charlie Wells comes in and he wasn't really
reporting to me.  He was kind of moving past me, I
guess.  I think he had already some other marching
Z. GOLDFARB
24
order.  But he had came in from the north going south
and he stopped at my area.  I told him -- maybe we
talked for just a minute and I sort of exchanged
information with him and said do you have a mission?
He said he was reporting to the command post or
something like that and he continued on.  Commissioner
Von Essen came by that way and I saw him and I talked
to him just for a second and he went on to the command
post.
          Then I called Pinkus on the radio and said --
no, wait.  Before this I think Chief Villani came down
and -- let me back up.  Wells came down and said he's
here with a number of ambulances, he's got a bunch of
ambulances staged north of Vesey Street on West.  So I
told him, okay, have the crews report here.  We're
setting up triage and treatment.  Then he went on to
the command post.
          Then the next person I saw was Villani.
Chief Villani reported to me and I said do you have an
assignment?  He said no.  I said okay.  I said would
you do me a favor?  Recon to see if we can stage on
Vesey Street off of West heading west and if there's a
way to get out so that we can cycle our rigs out of
there without having to recommit to West Street because
Z. GOLDFARB
25
West Street was getting blocked quicker.  So he went to
recon and ultimately he got back to me and said yes, we
can go out North End Avenue, there are already some
rigs up there, and he was going to set up that staging
for me on Vesey to North End and that would have been
the egress route for those rigs so you'd be clear of
West Street debris.
          Along the same time frame, I called Pinkus on
the radio and I tell him I don't like the looks of
things coming off the building.  I said recon the lobby
of 3 World Financial Center, see if we can set up
triage and treatment in the lobby there for a casualty
collection point.  So Pinkus reports back to me that,
yes, we're able to do that.  I tell him okay, get
everybody inside the building under cover, everybody in
the lobby, let me know when they're starting to
establish accountability for the people.  So he goes
ahead and does that.
          So now basically I'm on this corner and my
recollection is that the street was kind of -- it
wasn't like hugely packed with people.  It was kind of
empty, some cops and some firemen and us, and a cop
comes over wearing heavy tactical gear and starts
shouting at us, this is tactical area, clear the area.
Z. GOLDFARB
26
What I found out days later was that the sergeant on 6
Truck, his name is Sullivan, I think, he was on TV, had
at some point made a determination that this was a
terrorist attack and began to think what if there's
ground troops also, I don't know, if this is supported
by some kind of a ground attack and here are all these
cops in heavy vests clearing the streets.
          So anyway, he starts shouting at us this is a
tactical area, clear the area, and not just at us but
everyone that was there.  So we had actually moved onto
Vesey.  We were really right at the corner of Vesey and
West.  Pinkus calls me back and tells me everybody is
under cover, they have no patients, all the people are
accounted for, there's plenty of space in the lobby,
they're back from the windows.  So I felt comfortable
with that.  So at that point I have accountability for
what's going on.  They have no patient contact.  I'm
really starting to wonder where the patients are.
          We're standing on the corner and I'm standing
here and Mary is here, the MERV is here, there was a
line of ambulances here that are staged pointing west
and we're about a car length apart from each other and
I was looking up Vesey Street and she was looking at
the building watching people coming out of the
Z. GOLDFARB
27
building, and all of a sudden I hear her say, oh, my
God, chief, it's coming down.  I turn and I look up and
the building was coming down, and all you saw was this
huge cloud.  I mean, I didn't see the building coming
down.  I just saw a cloud of (inaudible) coming down,
just a big black cloud.  So I was like, let's go.  I
knew the people in my area were clear, but we were just
near enough.  So I'm like, let's go, and she was just
transfixed.  She's like, oh, my God.  I'm like, Mary,
let's go.
          So we start running west on Vesey Street and
she outdistances me, and as we were running, I saw --
remember I told you this was a beautiful day and it's
like suddenly dark, like a thunderstorm brews, you
know, suddenly it's like big, gray clouds, and it's
almost a feeling that something is overtaking me is I
guess the way I would describe it.  Mary runs past me,
but I guess we're kind of running together, and all of
a sudden I look up and I see an ambulance in front of
me, back doors open, no stretcher, kind of saying hop
in here.  So I did.  And I'm calling to Mary, come on,
thinking there's some shelter there.  She had already
come around the side of the ambulance, so she was
already past me when she heard me.  She just decided
Z. GOLDFARB
28
she was going to keep on going.  But now I'm committed
to the ambulance.
          So I jump in, slammed the doors.  It seemed
reasonable at the time.  I have no idea actually how I
got from the street into the ambulance because
obviously I made it inside, but my legs were hurting
for two days after or three days.  So I must have
projected myself somehow.  I don't know.
          So now I'm in the ambulance and I hear stuff,
you know, debris hitting the roof and stuff coming down
on the truck and you look out the window and there's
just swirling clouds of gray and it's getting darker.
I'm like this is pretty cool, I've got a little shelter
here, and then I realize there's stuff starting to come
into the truck.  So I'm like why?  I closed the door.
This is kind of just going through my mind.  I was very
calm about this whole thing.  So I look up in the cab,
and it was a voluntary ambulance and I know it was
because you could walk through into the cab, which is
probably a good thing.  So I look in the cab and I see
that both windows were rolled down, power windows.
Hey, the truck is running.  So I powered both windows
up and that stopped it somewhat, but it was coming in
through the vents and I realized the AC was on.  So I
Z. GOLDFARB
29
shut the AC off.  So now the windows are up, the AC is
off, doors closed, and it was better.  But I'm coughing
already, you know, there's stuff coming up.  So I'm
like this is not good.
          A good question might be why didn't I think
to just drive the ambulance away?  I never thought of
it.  But what I did think of was, hey, I'm in an
ambulance.  If there's oxygen, I'll put a mask on, then
I'll be able to breathe no matter what comes around the
ambulance.  So I got an oxygen mask out, I started
looking for the valve to turn on the oxygen, and I'm
looking for something thinking, if something comes
crashing through the roof, I know it's only a sheet of
aluminum, maybe this wasn't such a bright place to be
after all, I'm looking for a back board or something to
get under, but there was nothing in there.
          I look out the window and I'm thinking should
I try and make a run for it or run further?  But
there's all this stuff going on outside like a nuclear
snowstorm.  It was unbelievable.  Unbelievable.  Stuff
like da-da-da-da-da pounding on the roof of the truck.
So I just kind of scrunched up on the floor with my
oxygen mask under that arch between the cab and the
walk-through thinking that might be the strongest roof
Z. GOLDFARB
30
point, and I just kind of scrunched up there and I had
protective gear on and I said, you know, I hope I'm
able to get out of this.  I remember it was really
quiet.  There was no screaming on the radio.  There was
really nothing going on on the radios.  It was just --
it was quiet.
          So after some period of time, I don't know,
minutes, seconds, I have no idea, after some period of
time it sort of lightened up outside.  So I said, hmmm,
it looks like I can get out.  So I got out of the
truck.  There was a lot of stuff floating around, but I
could see and get out.  So my next thought was -- well,
you know, before I even got out of the truck I was
thinking of Mary and she was contacting me, she was
calling me on the radio, and I called her.  I said I'm
okay.  Are you okay?  She said, yeah, I'm okay.  I said
where are you?  She tells me she's up the block.  I
said okay, good.  I said I'm going to regroup, try and
get our treatment area back up, if it isn't up, in the
lobby of 3.  So then she tells me or we discover that
one of the buildings we think had collapsed.  You
really couldn't tell because there was just clouds and
smoke, but it was like it wasn't there.  I can't begin
to tell you how weird this thing was and what a strange
Z. GOLDFARB
31
feeling this was.
SoIgointo3andIfindPinkus. IthinkI
talked to him on the radio first and then I find him
and he tells me everybody is okay, we're all accounted
for, no problem with that, and I'm saying, my God, if I
hadn't taken these guys off the street, they would have
all been under this thing.  That still freaks me out.
That still freaks me out.  It would have been an awful
lot of guys.  So thank God they're all okay.
     Q.   Good command decision.
     A.   Lucky command decision.
          In fact, he did tell me, when I saw Jace a
couple weeks afterwards, he told me that -- I can't
remember.  I think he told me Quinn had been with our
group at one point and then afterwards wasn't there
anymore.  Quinn's wife was the one who worked in Tower
1, I think?  Maybe I'm confused.  But he had apparently
left the group to go strike out after -- to try to find
his wife at some point, and that was the one member
that we didn't have accountability for after.
          So anyway, the lobby of 3 World Financial
Center kind of wraps around the building here.  So
originally they were operating here.  Now everything is
full of -- there's windows broken and there's debris on
Z. GOLDFARB
32
the east side.  The structure seemed like it was
stable.  So we decide to pull everything over to the
west side of the lobby around the corner.
          The strangest thing, because they must have
been having been some kind of reception in the lobby of
this building, they had tables lined up with bottled
water.  Go figure.  There were cases of bottled water,
and it was just what we needed was bottled water and
here they are, cases of bottled water.  So people were
coming in and there was plenty of bottled water to wash
your eyes or get them a drink and people are coughing
and choking.
          So I tell Pinkus get his people and start
moving them to the west side of that lobby.  Am I
talking too much?
     Q.   No.  You're doing great.
     A.   The next thing I remember is Mark Stone comes
in completely covered with debris, completely freaked
out, coughing.  He's like, he said, Kowalczyk's trapped
under there.  I said what do you mean?  He said
Kowalczyk was with me, he said, and when the thing came
down, we started running and I looked back and he was
gone.  He's trapped under there.  I was like, you know,
on the one hand I was like I really don't need you to
Z. GOLDFARB
33
tell me this right now.  On the other hand, it's like,
okay, so here we are at the doors to hell and you're
going to tell me Kowalczyk is trapped there.  What are
we going to do about it?  So he was like, let me take a
couple of guys and we'll go back and dig him out.  I
said listen.  If he's trapped under here, you're not
going to dig him out with a couple guys.  We need to
get to the command post and get a team and go after
him.  I said are you okay? because he was coughing, and
he was like I'm okay, I'm okay.  I said okay.  I said
can you make your way to the command post?
          I have to tell you that I'm not sure what
happened or where the command post was at this point.
I didn't know -- see, this situation was like war in
that, you know, you've heard the expression the five of
war?  Too much stuff happened sometimes too quickly for
you to sort it all out and make logical decisions based
on what's real, so you just sort of -- you don't have
all the information.  You try and make the best
decisions with the information that you have, which is
flawed, and you kind of go from there because you have
no alternative.  You don't have enough information and
the information that you do have, including stuff that
your own senses bring you, you can't process it.
Z. GOLDFARB
34
So my thinking is the command post is still where we left it. I don't really know at this moment, this is like two minutes post-collapse or five minutes post-collapse, I don't know what's collapsed. In fact, I mean, it was clear that something made a big mess, butIdon'tknowwhatitisorhowbaditis. Iwas not able to get around to recon it. My first priority was to make sure my men were okay, my people were okay, which they were. My second priority, as I understood it, was to carry out my mission, which was to have a casualty collection point there, and so we were doing that.
          So when Mark presents with the idea that
Chief Kowalczyk is lost, my direction to him was to go
to the Fire command post, take another man with him, go
to the Fire command post and get help for Chief
Kowalczyk, lead them to where he is.  So I gave him
that direction.  Fortunately, as we later found out,
Chief Kowalczyk wasn't trapped at all.  But, again,
sometimes you don't have all the information.
          So I had Pinkus trying to get things
organized and something is nagging at me.  It's
clearing up outside, it's clearing a little bit, you
know, you start to see a little sun.  I talked to
Z. GOLDFARB
35
Mary.  She was up on the corner helping them with some
transports and some patients, some resources.
Something tells me I want to find another exit out of
this building.
          So someone was with me.  I can't remember who
it is at the moment.  Someone was with me.  I said
let's go recon another way out of this building.  Let's
see if we can get out toward the water in case we have
to retreat from where we are.  So we go out through the
back warrens or through the back lobby of 3 World
Financial Center and we find like an exit corridor that
leads us to an exit door which actually takes us out, I
guess, right onto this promenade here.  So that's
pretty swift.  The time sequence is just kind of
jumbled.  I'm not sure how -- the sequence that you
gave me, what time did the south tower collapse?
          9:55.  Okay.  And the north tower collapsed
at 10:20.
Q. 10:20.
     A.   Yes.  So figure 9:55 that collapses, figure
at 10:05, 10:10, something like that, we're in the
lobby, we're looking for this exit pathway.  In fact,
my strong sense is that it was Stone with me again,
like maybe he had reported to the command post, come
Z. GOLDFARB
36
back, maybe we had found Kowalczyk by that point,
something like that.  I think Stone was back with me
again, and I remember Chief Carrasquillo came through
here and we gave him, because he was coughing and
choking, we gave him some water.  We were starting to
get a few patients, not a lot.  It wasn't like 100
patients.
          There was a lot of trouble getting through to
the command post on the radio.  Previously there had
been a couple of frequencies in use.  When we got on
the scene, we were on command.  Then we were trying to
use tact 2.  I was using tact 2.  When I set up Vesey
and West, I had Pinkus go to tact 2.  We were using
tact 2 to communicate so it would be clear, and we do
that, Mary and I do that all the time, so we know how
that works.  We routinely at events do that.  So I was
on tact 2 with Pinkus and she was on Citywide command
talking to the MERV.
          At some point a decision was made, actually
before I left the command post, to start switching this
whole incident onto Manhattan south so it would have
its own frequency and that was underway, and that was a
great decision.  In fact, that should be standardized.
We should just do that.  That was a great decision
Z. GOLDFARB
37
because it gives us a complete clear from everything
frequency to use.  But anyway, that was underway.
          So here I am -- I know I'm jumping around a
little bit, but I'm just trying to give you the pieces.
     Q.   You're doing great.
     A.   So I come out and I see there is this
promenade over here, you know, it looks so beautiful
down by the water, it's sunny and bright and clear, and
I see some people over there and I see the ambulances
over here and the street is just covered with stuff,
and something tells me -- I call Pinkus on the radio
and I said listen, get everybody together and get all
the equipment, I said, and proceed -- I said I'm going
to send someone back to show you the back way out.  Use
the back way out, get everybody out here, we're going
to relocate on North End Avenue, the whole triage area.
     Q.   That would be North End and Vesey?
     A.   North End and Vesey.  We're going to move to
North End and Vesey.  And you know, I can't tell you
why I gave that order other than maybe it didn't feel
safe being in that building.  I don't know.  I can't
tell you why I gave that order.  Something made me do
that.  So he acknowledges the order and I move down to
North End and Vesey.
Z. GOLDFARB
38
          Here's the corner of North End and Vesey, and
right here on the northeast corner I encounter Chief
Gombo was there, Basile, Pascale, Kowalczyk, my aide,
their aides, a bunch of people, and we were just trying
to get a handle on whatever it was the hell happened
because we're not sure.  Pinkus is pulling these people
out of here.  They pull out and we take over the -- we
move the treatment area into the lobby...
          (End of tape side A.)
     Q.   ... interview with Chief Goldfarb.
     A.   So we're on the corner.  We moved the
treatment area into the Embassy Suites Hotel.
     Q.   Do you want to take a break or go on?
     A.   You know, I've told this story 10,000 times,
but to tell it with the level of detail that you want,
you have to walk through it, and when you walk through
it, sometimes you remember things you'd rather not
remember.  But I'll deal with it.
     Q.   If you need a break, just let me know.
     A.   Thank you.
          So what was interesting about the Embassy
Suites is that, when you come in, there's a huge atrium
area here, high, very high, lofty ceiling with glass,
plexi, whatever.  So we go in there and then off to the
Z. GOLDFARB
39
North End of that lobby is a covered area.  I remember
seeing a covered area because the building was above.
So we go in there and we have to be sure that we're
clear of that atrium.  So the team moves in there and
they start setting up a treatment area in there, and
we're out on the street.  Now we're getting patients.
Patients are coming in to us.
          Suddenly, my hero, my heroine, and I say that
just out of total respect for her, says chief, the
other building is coming down.  I hear it.  I'm like,
Mary, try to stay calm.  The other building is not
coming down.  Again, in retrospect, I mean, it's funny,
you know, you just weren't processing this.  Who could
absolutely process the idea that a tower of the World
Trade Center has collapsed and when you look you don't
see it?  Who could process that?
          I'll tell you that to this minute I have no
idea, no concept whatsoever as to what the injury count
or the impact on us, operationally, organizationally,
peoplewise, was of just that discrete event of the one
tower coming down.  I know the total picture.  I mean,
I don't know if you have any idea what that is, but I
have no idea.
     Q.   No, I don't.
Z. GOLDFARB
40
     A.   But I have no idea.  I don't know who was
trapped, I don't know who was lost.  I mean, we lost
eight EMS people.  I don't know if they died in the
first tower, the second tower or in the middle.  I have
no idea.  I don't know if anybody knows that.
     Q.   I don't believe that's known.
     A.   But anyway, she's like no, chief, I hear it,
and she said you know I have very keen hearing.  And
she does.  She said you know I have very keen hearing.
She said that building is coming down.  So we -- and
we're standing with a bunch chiefs -- we say all right,
you know what?  Let's just move into cover.  So we
clear everybody off the street, we get everybody in
under the sheltered area of this hotel inside, and you
can't believe it.  The second tower comes down.  This
was just a day of such mind-boggling stuff.
          So the second tower comes down.  Huge clouds,
huge -- the same thing.  It's like, hey, I've been here
already, you know?  Just horrible.  The strangest thing
is I don't remember noise associated with it.  You
would think that would be a very noisy kind of thing,
and I just remember quiet.  I don't know if like your
ears disconnect or something?  I don't know.  I don't
remember ground shaking, noise, any of that stuff, and
Z. GOLDFARB
41
I was right there.  Much too close.
          So this comes down and now we have a much
larger area of debris outside and the cloud and stuff
everywhere, and we're in the lobby and we're treating
patients.  I'm not treating patients, but the teams are
in the lobby treating patient and now we're getting
more patients.  We had moved around a table in the
lobby, the chiefs, to try and plan a little strategy
here and it was just too chaotic, so we decided we're
going to pull back.  We go into like a back corridor
here at this Embassy Suites Hotel, and it's Gombo,
Terranova, myself, Kowalczyk, Basile, Pascale, and
we're just trying to have a little bit of a strategy
session, and I think all of us are like just kind of
blown away by what was going on.
          But we had a very rational brainstorming
session where we reassessed, number one, we were under
attack.  Number two, we've probably taken a huge impact
on this.  Number three, we're not winning.  There's no
success in our staying here.  We don't know what's
going to collapse next, blow up next, get bombarded
next, the next thing coming, whatever.  We don't know
if we got nuked.  We just didn't know what was going
on.  So we acknowledged that we were shy a lot of
Z. GOLDFARB
42
information and we decided to take three strategic
decisions, all of which I think are important.
          Number one was we knew that there were other
resources on the scene and okay and working because we
could hear some of it on the radio, but we weren't able
to get through.  We were having a lot of radio
trouble.  We couldn't get through on the cell phones.
We were just having a lot of trouble getting through.
So we knew there were players on the scene doing stuff
on the scene.  We decided that our best immediate
strategy was to pull back clear of the scene, try and
regroup, not bring more resources into the scene
because we didn't even know how big the scene was at
this point.  We didn't have a definition of where the
scene began and ended.
          So we decided to set up two mobilization
points, one north and one south, direct any further
response into those points, and try and pull back
whatever forces we could to those points so we could
regroup them, and basically we decided to leave the
scene in the hands of the people who were there while
we tried to get a little better picture.  We were also
mindful of the fact that we didn't know what else was
going on in the city, we didn't know what else might
Z. GOLDFARB
43
get hit in the city, another target or something.  We
knew we were under attack of some kind by somebody, but
we didn't know the status of any of our operating
forces.  We didn't know the status, we had no picture.
We just -- again, no information.
          So we decided to activate these two
mobilization points.  We chose Chelsea Piers on 23rd
and West, which was my choice because I knew it was a
big spot, big open space, that there's plenty of room
in there to set up casualty collection, staging, really
anything you want, it's huge and sort of right there.
It's a little further away maybe than you would like
it, but then again, that's not necessarily a bad thing,
it wasn't far.  The second place we chose was the ferry
terminal, the Staten Island ferry terminal on the
Brooklyn side -- no.  The Staten Island ferry terminal
on the a Manhattan side.
          So we tried to get through.  There were a
couple times I was able to break through to Citywide
dispatcher, and we tried to get that information to him
that we were setting up those two points.  We tried to
see if there was an unaffiliated chief or someone who
hadn't been committed to this thing already that we
could send to each of those places to set those up.  I
Z. GOLDFARB
44
don't think we were successful in doing that.
          So Walter Kowalczyk and Frank Pascale went
north to Chelsea Piers.  I'm not sure who we sent to
the ferry terminal.  I don't think we were able to send
anybody from there to the ferry terminal.  I can't
remember at the moment what the task was Pete
Carrasquillo and Chief Gombo and myself were going to
go to -- we decided we had to go to -- it was clear
that we had to get a citywide command center up because
we had a citywide problem.  It was also clear that 7
World Trade Center, which was the OEM command post, was
not going to be accessible.
          So Chief Gombo suggested Police Plaza is the
place to go, and he was actually on target, a totally
right suggestion.  So we decided that Gombo and myself
would go to Police Plaza to set up the big picture and
Kowalczyk and Pascale would go to Chelsea Piers and
work the scene picture and the evacuation piece of it
and we would try and get someone over to the ferry
terminal, and that was our strategy.
          So we broke up from that.  I think Basile
might have just stayed there on the scene working the
scene.  I can't remember what it was that he was
supposed to do.  So we broke from that and -- I'm
Z. GOLDFARB
45
sorry.  I said Basile but I think I mean Pasquale.
     Q.   I believe Basile went over to the ferry
terminal?
     A.   All right.  So we leave there.  As we're
coming out of our little brainstorming session, the
lobby is now full of patients, lots of patients, some
of them our own people, our people helping other
people, a couple of ESU cops came running into the
lobby and they start shouting everybody out, we've got
to evacuate the building, we've got a major gas leak in
the building, everybody out of the building right now,
right now, everybody go.  And you're like what else?
Are we going to get like frogs also?  What else is
going to happen here?  So we start helping get people
out of the lobby and, you know, it starts to get
spooky, like you think, gee, is this building going to
blow up as I'm trying to leave it or something?  It
became very strange.
          We get out to the street.  I can't find
Mary.  I'm calling on the radio.  She's not answering.
She was two blocks up helping another ambulance.  But
we finally hook up.  So Gombo and Terranova and myself,
when we catch up with Mary, start proceeding north on
North End Avenue to get out of there.  Like how are we
Z. GOLDFARB
46
going to get to Police Plaza?  Well, we're going to
walk.  There's no other way to get there.  This stretch
here, this North End Avenue, this is like a wasteland.
I mean, not normally, but it was like a wasteland.
Everything was covered, vehicles skewed every which
way, injured people, people helping other people, rigs
that won't start, and I felt like a refugee fleeing
some war-torn country.
          As I thought about it later, it was the first
time in my life that I ever felt that an incident beat
us.  You know, we go into an incident to control it.
That's what we do.  If you're a control freak, that
works for you even better.  You go into a scene, you
take command, you assess whatever the problem is and
you manage the incident.  That's what we train, that's
what we do, and here we are going into an incident that
is beating the shit out of us and has actually pushed
us back and chased us away and we're leaving behind our
wounded, we were leaving behind who knows what, we're
leaving equipment, we're abandoning equipment.  We took
all the people that were with us, but we were
abandoning the equipment, some of the equipment, and we
were just trudging out through the dust like just a
defeated army.  That's how I felt.  It just felt
Z. GOLDFARB
47
terrible.  It just felt terrible.
          We get up to like Murray Street and we look
back and where there used to be those two beautiful
towers -- and I'm a New York born my whole life.  I
mean, I watched those things go up.  I always lived
with those there, you know?  Where there used to be
those two beautiful tours, and all you see is the
sunshine and a huge cloud, a huge cloud, and I said to
Mary, turn and look at that because you'll never want
to forget that.  She just looks at me with these eyes
and she was (inaudible).  I will never forget that.
          She told me later how she was watching those
people falling out the building, which makes me think,
I read this thing in the Times a few days later about a
class that was evacuating from one of the schools and
how one of the students turned to a teacher and said
look, teacher, the buildings are on fire.
          So we proceed up North End Avenue, met up
with some crews with some patients and we're just all
kind of walking in this direction, and we turn back and
there's huge clouds of smoke and dust and everything
and we had stuff, our masks on, I popped my hood out,
covered my face.  We had surgical masks, stuff like
that, just to keep all of the stuff out.  It was so
surreal.
Z. GOLDFARB
48
          We go up I guess to Chambers.  We walk up to
Chambers Street and then over Chambers by the school
and then we start walking north on West Street and we
still have -- Mary still has these two guys in tow that
have been with us all along, Darnowski, and Darnowski
is convinced that his wife is dead.  In fact, at one
point Darnowski and Mary were standing there watching
these people falling out the building and a woman jumps
and whatever she was wearing, maybe all white, and he
turns to Mary and just like blank and said my wife is
dressed in those clothes today.  So Darnowski is just
in shock.  He's just catatonic.  He was just tagging
along with us, he and this other guy.  When we get to
West Street, I tell Mary we've got to leave Darnowski
with somebody else because we have another mission,
find somebody that will take care of him and we need to
move on.
          Some of this decision making really feels
like combat decision making, and I don't have war
fighting experience, but a lot of these were like
decisions you make in combat, you know, cut off the
foot to save the life, stuff like that, leave this
behind, abandon equipment.  It was just stuff that we
Z. GOLDFARB
49
don't do and train for.  It's just unusual decision
making.
          Our plan is we're going to go north on West
Street to like North Murray -- is it North Murray
Street?  I think it was North Street and try and work
our way around and get to Police Plaza.  So we're
walking and all of a sudden I notice Mary is not beside
me and I look and she's like 40 steps back and she's
like hang on, chief, and somehow, I don't know where
she conjures this stuff up, but a good aide does this
kind of thing and she is absolutely the best.  But she
find a cop an a golf cart in the midst of all this
insanity and tells the cop you need to take the chiefs
to Police Plaza right now, and this cop just sort of
says okay and all of a sudden pulls up next to us,
there's Mary with a golf cart saying everybody pile
on.
          So Gombo and Terranova and myself, Mary, got
onto this golf cart and this cop takes off, and there
we are driving a golf cart with dust swirling around us
and everybody just kind of -- there was not enough
seats for all of these people, so everybody was just
kind of holding on for dear life and this guy just
drives us through the streets.  I will never forget.
Z. GOLDFARB
50
Everything was covered with this schmutz, ash, dust,
and everybody is in shock, just all of the people,
everybody was just freaking aghast.  I swear to God,
this was the most unbelievable experience.  I can tell
you what time that was.  This was right around 11:15.
So when did that second tower come down?  10:30 the
second tower came down?  So the time fits very nicely.
          So right around 11:15 we finally pull up at
Police Plaza, give or take, I'd say give or take 15
minutes, we pull up at Police Plaza, and as we -- the
guy drives us right to the front door and with cops all
over apparently there were M-16s out, I mean, MP-5s.
They were ready for war over there.  We just pulled
right to the door, get off, brush our stuff off, you
know, and walk in.  As we get off the golf cart, Jerry
Gombo said something that I will remember forever
because it showed really true leadership on his part.
He turned to us all and said, okay, first order of
business, find phones and call your families and let
them know you're okay, and that was just -- you know,
Jerry spends a lot of time inside and I think he did a
good job under fire.  So I think he earned some respect
on the part of some people.
     Q.   It says a lot about the man.
Z. GOLDFARB
51
     A.   So we go upstairs trailing our cloud of dust
like Linus in the Snoopy cartoon and we get there and
Police Plaza is busy and -- well, how far do you want
to take the story?
     Q.   Roughly noon, somewhere around then.
     A.   We walk in.  We were the first Fire or EMS
representation there.  We were probably among the first
people to actually come in from the scene covered with
dust and everybody was looking at us like, oh, my God.
They were watching on monitors and stuff.  It used to
be the old OEM command center.  That's now the police
operations command center.
          So we report in, tell them we're here, they
make some space for us, then we all get to the phones
and call significant people, let them know at least
we're alive, and then we set about big picture
coordination, and what we did for the next eight hours
was large-scale disaster stuff.  A lot of it centered
around ordering federal resources, USAR teams, EMAT
teams, planning how we were going to deploy them.  We
planned to set out three casualty collection points.
All the strategy came from us when we were in that
command center.  We planned to set up three casualty
collection points one at Javitz Center, one in the
Z. GOLDFARB
52
Brooklyn Navy Yard, one in the Staten Island ferry
terminal, at the Yankee Stadium, at the new Staten
Island Yankee Stadium, and we pulled down some extra
resources for the casualty collection points, not using
EMS assets because we didn't have any.
          We had a tremendous problem communicating.
The phones there weren't working.  They were
intermittent.  The cells weren't working.  The radios
weren't working.  Very, very hard communicating out
from there.  There were some resources that were up,
but we didn't know about them, like Verizon phones and
stuff like that, not Verizon, Nextel phones, but we
didn't have a Nextel phone.  So we just really had a
lot of challenge in terms of getting that up and
running, but here you have a huge disaster, an
improvised command center and a lot of infrastructure
stuff like phone lines and switching stations damaged.
It was probably surprising that we could accomplish
what we did.
          We set up a separate emergency operational
center for ESFA, Emergency Support Function Aid, which
is from the federal response plan, health and medical
assets, I'm pretty well versed in all this stuff and
I've been doing this kind of planning, you know me,
Z. GOLDFARB
53
I've been doing this kind of planning for 20 years, so
I knew what needed to be done.  Bill Connelly was
there, the State Health Department's regional disaster
planning guy, and I knew him personally, and when he
showed up, I told him exactly what I wanted him to do.
We got space from PD and set up the ESFA operations
center.  We briefed them on the information that we had
and on what we anticipated, which at that point, early
in the day, was thousands of patients, and we made out
a concept of operations for them and told him what kind
of resources we were looking for, helped them get
organized.  We got reps in from Health and Hospitals,
Greater New York Hospital Association, Nassau, Suffolk
Hospital Council, Nassau Health Department, City Health
Department.  We tried to get Nassau Health Department.
I don't know if they came.  City Health Department,
State Health Department, later on in the day a FEMA rep
joined us and started planning for deploying EMAT
teams.
          So we got all of this up and running.  We
coordinated a zillion bizarre requests, and I have a
log that goes from 1130 until when we stopped writing
about 1900, just things that were going on.  I see my
first entry at 1130.  New Jersey had sent Bob Resitar
Z. GOLDFARB
54
from the University Hospital, he's one of their
assistant directors over at University Hospital System,
they had sent him, in fact, they were there before us,
and Frank Goodstein from the New Jersey mutual aid, and
they were there before us.  So they greeted us and I
have a log entry at 1130 and they tell me they had
4,000 patients between Ellis Island and the Hoboken
PATH station and various shore points on New Jersey
that all these people were coming over by boat and
landing.
          So here we are coordinating mutual aid and we
told them don't send us any mutual aid from Jersey.
You guys work your thousands of patients and we'll get
the mutual aid elsewhere because obviously you're
stretched.  I'm not sure what they ultimately ended up
with.  I think that number crunched to like 2,000 or
1,500.  But it's still huge numbers.
          The SEMA rep was there.  The State Department
of Health rep was there.  We told the SEMA rep we
wanted to activate the regional mutual aid plan, and we
ordered five task forces of ten ambulances and an
officer at each point from the east, Nassau and
Suffolk, and one from the north, Westchester and points
north, and we had a plan for this.  I mean, I don't
Z. GOLDFARB
55
know how many people really knew that this plan
existed, but I knew the plan existed because I was
working on the task force.  Gombo didn't know it
existed.
          So we ordered that would have been 100
ambulances, 50 into a staging area on Randalls Island,
50 to a staging area at Shea Stadium.  Again, we
weren't sure what we were doing with them.  We didn't
want to commit anything more to the city until I had a
sense of what was going on and you really couldn't get
any good (inaudible) at the scene.  We didn't really
know what was going on there.  So we figured, okay,
let's order 100 trucks, at least that will give us a
jump and we'll see what we need to do from there.  So
we were able to communicate to the point where we had
highway patrol and an EMS supervisor at each of those
sites waiting to catch this mobilization as it came
in.  Then we started fielding buffers and supplies,
shipments of stuff coming in.  So my decision was to
send all that stuff to Randalls Island where I figured
it could at least be secured, checked and secured with
some accountability before it gets deployed someplace.
We spent basically the next eight hours running the
command center, fielding decisions.  At the outset we
Z. GOLDFARB
56
were doing the Fire side of it, too, because we were
the only reps there, and then a couple of chiefs
arrived in a little bit of time.  Tom Galvin got there
and Ed Kilduff from the Fire end of it.
          What's funny is that a few months ago Tom
Galvin and I were in a course together on weapons of
mass destruction, incident management, and during one
of the breaks in the course he and I were having a
conversation about the World Trade Center bombing
because in the course, among the course material was
the FEMA U.S. Fire Administration report on the first
World Trade Center bombing, which included a section
written by Steve Kerr and myself.  So we were talking
about that in class, that I had written that.
          So Galvin and I were talking about it and now
it's after the merger and how would we respond, and I
told him that, for reasons I won't go into now, that
the response would be very different if we had to
relive this thing, different not necessarily in a
positive way.  So here we are four weeks later and we
were actually living it.  It was just sort of one of
those strange ironies in the world, and the Fire guys,
I mean, there were Fire deputy chiefs, but they weren't
emergency management experts, they weren't prepared to
Z. GOLDFARB
57
really look at the big picture emergency management
issues, so we were helping with that as well.
          We stayed there and -- mind you, we had been
out since 10:00 o'clock the night before.  So we were
with that until about -- my log logs off -- I mean, you
can see how may handwriting deteriorates.  I guess I
was getting tired.  My log logs off at 1900, and we
went to try and find a place to sleep.  I remember
that.  So we couldn't find a place to sleep.  We ended
up taking some blankets and laying out on -- there was
a little strip of grass like two feet wide alongside
the stairs that went up to St. Andrew's Plaza.  So we
laid these blankets out and then we just laid down.  We
didn't know if we were going to go to sleep.  Every
noise I would just like jump.  It was so weird.  It was
so weird.
          So after about an hour of tossing and
turning, Jerry and Ross come by and they said that we
were relieved upstairs by Captain Connelly and that we
could go.  They said they were going back to the
scene.  So we said, oh, okay.  So we went upstairs to
get our personal equipment and come back down.  So we
set off for the scene Mary, myself, this guy Bob
Resitar from University Hospital, and along the way we
Z. GOLDFARB
58
pick up nine or ten off-duty members who were on their
way in to the scene to be of help.
          So we take this little procession and march
up to Chambers and West and do what we can at the
command post at the back of the Suburban, and Chief
McCracken and Chief Kowalczyk and a bunch of other
people were trying to get a handle on things and we
ended up -- we tried to sort out the leadership
manpower so that some people could go home and be fresh
in the morning.  So then we decided, Kowalczyk and
myself decided we would stay the overnight shift.  So
at 6:00 a.m., I think, while some people went back and
got some sleep so that we could get a fresh relief in
in the morning and then start another 12-hour cycle.
So we stayed there.
          During the course of the night we got in two
field communications trucks from New Jersey, our mutual
aid brought them in and set them up, so we had like a
real working command center because we don't have any
assets like that for EMS operations.  So we got those
trucks from Jersey and we put the full ICS structure
into place with a planning section, logistics section
and a coroner operations section, a finance
administration section that was contemplating how we
Z. GOLDFARB
59
were going to structure that.  So we developed an
incident action plan for the morning, which I actually
have a copy of here somewhere.  (inaudible) an incident
action plan so that they could get started in the
morning.
          Do you want me go on?
     Q.   Just go on until you feel you don't want to
go any further.
     A.   I guess the story is close to the end of this
day.
Q. Okay.
     A.   So we work through until like -- I'll just
keep going.  So we work until about 6:00 in the
morning.  This is now Wednesday morning.  We started
relieving.  So now we get relieved at 6:00 or at 7:00,
we get something to eat, and we decide we're going to
go find our car.  So we get a Gator.  Whoever ordered
the Gators, that was just an absolutely wonderful
decision.  I mean, those were so needed there and it
was just the perfect tool for this job and still is to
this minute.  So we catch a ride on a Gator and we ride
over to south of where we had parked the car, as close
as we could come, and then we continued on foot through
this just unbelievable devastation, and when you go on
Z. GOLDFARB
60
foot, you couldn't even recognize the street to know
which block face it was.  I was like a block north of
where we were and Mary was like, no, chief, we weren't
that far north, and I'm like, yeah, I think we were.
But we weren't.  She was right.
          So we're finally just kind of peering around
the rubble pile and we see the car, and the only way we
recognized it was that it looked like it had some
molten light bar on the top, not that it was
recognizable as a light bar, just a little heap of
molten something that maybe, you know, you could say
that once was a light bar.  We look inside and actually
the car is not crushed or anything, it's just burnt.
The only thing that was left in that car that was
recognizable at all was the metal piece of a
stethoscope and some melted chips from my Palm Pilot
and that was it.
          We lost, aside from the vehicle, which had 93
miles on it when we pulled up at the Trade Center, we
lost the vehicle, we lost thousands and thousands of
dollars worth of Department equipment.  Mary lost her
pocketbook, all her personal effects and her license
and ID and badge and everything a person carries in
their pocketbook.  Of course, when you work like we
Z. GOLDFARB
61
work, your car is like your locker and everything is in
it, and we certainly had everything in that car and it
was all gone.  Laptop computer, my Palm Pilot,
everything, personal clothes, everything.  So we
brushed ourselves off.  Our ride had left us.  It was
like what else is going to happen?
          So we walk over to the Staten Island ferry
terminal figuring we'd catch a ride from there, and we
catch a ride from there on a supply truck that was
dropping off supplies.  He gives us a ride to Maspeth,
and I was hoping to get back our old car, the '95 car,
which we had just turned in the day before to get the
new car, but they had already given that out to someone
else.  So they give us an old Suburban, which was
fine.  So now it's like 10:30 in the morning on
Wednesday.  Drive home.  We were due back there on
Thursday morning.  We were the 6:00 a.m. relief on
Thursday morning.
          So you'd think you would be able to go to
sleep after this, right?  A long long time before
sleep.  I guess that's the end of the story.
     Q.   Is there anything else you'd like to add?
     A.   I think a lot of people did an incredible job
that day and in the days since.  I think that this
Z. GOLDFARB
62
isn't over.  I think that the people that are looking
at this event as, you know, horrible tragedy, World
Trade Center, kind of like it was an earthquake or a
hurricane or something and now we're recovering and
we're having concerts and we're burying our dead and
we're trying to pick up the pieces, number one, are
forgetting that we're at war, and I think that this was
only act one, and I think that we're dealing with a
very evil adversary who has a completely different
value set than ours.  I think there will be more acts
of war like this.  I hope they're not in my town.  But
I think that, if we fail to prepare for them, we're
foolish and naive, and I think that we've got a lot of
work in front of us.
          I think there's a tremendous amount of
resources in this organization to be applied to that
stuff if it's used appropriately.  I think there are a
lot of good lessons to be learned from this that we
should try and learn.  I think we did a lot of things
right and I think there were a lot of other things that
we could do better or opportunities for improvement, as
they say.  I think we'd better fasten our seat belts
because I don't think this is over.  No thinking person
could think that this is over.
Z. GOLDFARB
63
          The other thing is that we keep talking about
the losses on this job from an EMS standpoint and we
say there were two, Carlos Lillo and Ricardo Quinn.
There were six other EMS professionals that died in
this incident on our mission, and it's not their fault
or anybody else's fault how we let this EMS system, it
would be a hodgepodge of voluntary hospitals and
voluntary ambulances and commercial ambulances.  But
you know what?  They all came in to do our mission and
I think that they need to be recognized as such and I
think it's a disgrace to us that we're not counting the
names of these six dead people who were just as heroic
and just as dead as Quinn and Lillo on the same
mission.  I think that's a real shame.  That really
bothers me.  It really bothers me.  End of report.
          MR. ECCLESTON:  This interview is concluded
at 42 minutes past 12:00 on October 24th.  Thank you
very much, chief, for conducting this interview.

File No. 9110146
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT IMMACULADA GATTAS Interview Date: October 17, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason

I. GATTAS
MS. BASTEDENBECK: Today is October 17, 2001. The time is 1229 hours. My name is Christine Bastedenbeck. I work for the New York City Fire Department on the World Trade Center Task Force. I'm at Division 6 to conduct an interview with the following individual.
Q. Please state your name, rank and assignment? A. EMT-D Immaculada Gattas, shield number 1443. Q. Your assigned - -
A. Assigned to Division 6.
Q. Today we would just like you to recount the
events to the best of your ability on September 11, 2001.
A. Okay. That day started with a beautiful day and we were just talking about that, how beautiful, sunny and warm it was, until someone from next door from the Division came running toward us, told us to turn on the TV. We turned on the TV and we started watching the news, saying that an airplane had just crashed against one of the World Trade Center towers. We were like oh, my god, what a horrific accident and we were just watching on and off until we found out there was another one on its way and it crashed against the second - - it crashed against the second tower.

I. GATTAS
That's when the Chief, Chief Pascale, told us to stand by, because we couldn't just rush into the scene. We needed to be requested first. So then she was called in, she told us to get our gear and radios and stuff and just get ready and go on to the vehicle. That's exactly what we did.
It took us a few, 15, 20 minutes to get downtown. We took the West Side Highway. It was packed with cars and a lot of roads were blocked by NYPD and maybe that's what saved our lives, because we were supposed - - we were riding with Chief Pascale. It was, in fact, Chief Pascale, Lieutenant Michael Cahill, Steve Pilla, which is a paramedic, ALS coordinator, NeilSweeting,ALScoordinatorandmyself. I'man emergency medical technician.
We were supposed to go with Chief Pascale to the command center, but because we were stuck in traffic, we got there a little bit later than we were supposed to be, and as soon as we start parking we start seeing people running our way and we were about
- - we were very close to West and Vesey and we saw people running and running and telling us to get out of the way, that - - to run for our lives. We were like - - we would try to drive away from that area until we

I. GATTAS
couldnomore. Itwascloseto20feet,those20feet, then we just parked and hid until everything subsided.
Q. Where did you hide?
A. I guess buildings and vehicles and stuff like that.
Q. You got out of the car and you just ran? A. Yes. We just ran.
Q. You got separated?
A. No, not at this time. We were not running
together,
at the end we just managed to find each other. We went around the corner where we were, I'm not sure exactly where that was, we were running along Vesey Street after the first building collapsed. I think that it was West Street heading south from West Street. That's where we finally - - we got together, Chief Pascale, other staff members, and then we went out inside one of the buildings.
Q. Do you know which building that was?
A. No, I don't know the name of that building, but we were doing patient care there. I was also doing patient tracking, just writing down their names, where the patients were taken, writing down the name of the unit numbers, and they were coming from private
but we were running toward the same area and

I. GATTAS
ambulances or EMS ambulances or municipal ambulances, you know, stuff like that, so I was tracking all that information, and I remember going inside this building again and as I was tracking this patient information, they told us run away, you have to evacuate immediately, because the second building is going to collapse.
We were like oh, my god, it can't be possible. Patients were already hooked into their oxygen lines and their masks. They were strapped into long boards and all that kind of stuff and there was too many of them, so we had to unstrap them, removed their face masks and just assist them as good as we could, because there was too many for us. We are doing this or just let them die there. Believe me they run. As soon as we let them go they just disappeared, as we did. We started running and running and running and I just remember, I think Lieutenant Cahill running next to me. He was just - - it just - - we were just running as fast as we could and I remember one second or moment looking back and seeing the cloud.
First listening to this sound, this thundering sound and then silence after that, like eerie silence, until the cloud caught up to us and

I. GATTAS
surrounded us and you could see no more. Then it was silence and it was thousands and thousands of millions of particles hitting our skin. It felt like something was hitting my skin like glass and I couldn't see anything, nothing.
I remember feeling a sharp pain on my left arm, but I didn't see blood or anything like that. I just kept running. Could hardly see, you could hardly breathe. I put my face inside my shirt. I had my helmet on. I didn't have any protective breathing devices on. I didn't have my turnout coat with me at that time. I only had my helmet, so I pulled the shield, the eye shield down to protect my eyes a little bit, but not that much, and covered my face with my shirt and just kept running and the only thing I was able to listen was to my breathing. I mean it was
- - oh, my god, it was such a weird feeling. It was just like hu, hu, hu. Slow motion like in a tunnel. You are just running, running, running, followed by firefighters and EMTs and police officers and members of the media.
I saw this member of the media falling on the ground, picking up his equipment, running again, crashing against the fence. All of us running at like,

I. GATTAS
I don't know, like a stampede of animals and just looking behind and running and running until we could see no more. Suddenly this crowd of people split. One went to the right and one went to the left. I went towards the left. I followed this group of people. I couldn't see where I was running or where I was going. I just followed this group of people until I saw an opening.
I didn't know where I was getting, where I was going, but I saw this opening, and I said these people are going inside that place, that's where I'm going. We all went inside. We squeezed inside this area, big guys, short people. I mean it was incredible, and as soon as everybody got in we closed the door. Total darkness, everybody, some people were crying, some people were coughing, some people were just completely - - in complete silence. It was like the end of the world, my god.
At that second when I was running I just couldn't think of anything. Just running, something in my mind - - my brain was saying run, run, run or you are going to die. This building is going to fall on you.
I didn't have any idea of how far or how fast I run, I knew I had run.

I. GATTAS
I went inside this building or this thing that happened to be a construction trailer. After our eyes got adjusted, adapted to the darkness, that's when we were able to see each other and we start - - people from the construction trailer handed out paper towels with water and we used it to clean other peoples' arms and faces and noses and it was spitting out dust and that's all we were doing for a long, long time. We were just spitting out and this lady said oh, my back was hurting and we just helped her sit on the floor against the wall.
Just for a while, I don't know for how long, we stayed in that trailer in darkness, until one of us said okay, let's open the door. We have to open the door. We were scared to death to open the door. We didn't know what we were going to find. So we opened the door and we saw this oh, my god, everything covered by dust. Everything, a cloud, everything was surrounded by dust. People walking like zombies, covered in dust. Just like we were, but walking like zombies.
We tried to pull some of them inside, cleaned them, and we helped them as best we could until it was safe for us, for everybody to go out again. It's like

I. GATTAS
this trailer, this is where I managed to go inside the trailer with one of my Lieutenants, Lieutenant Cahill, and after he got out and I got out, we got separated again. I think we met one more time, because we were just walking in circles, met again and another place where someone, another EMT helped me irrigate my eyes, because I had contact lenses, so you imagine me running in this cloud of dust and who knows what, couldn't hardly see, hardly breathe, hardly do anything, just run for your life.
So this guy held me. I took off my contact lenses, irrigate them, put them back, check my arm, which was okay, and then just go back again until someone said that we had to run again because there was going to be a manhole explosion. We had to run again.
Without thinking of anything - - really my only thought was during the - - before the second collapse, after they said the building was tilting, just take care of the patients, get them out of the building so they could run at least and save their lives. I see some of them just run because everybody got separated, all the members of the Division got separated. The patients disappeared in the darkness. We disappeared in the darkness.

I. GATTAS
After they told about the manhole explosion, then everybody got separated, and I went a separate way, I don't know, I was completely disoriented. I encountered patients or people just running scared to death, people that were disoriented as I was, trying to find a way out of that area.
I kept on walking, running and walking, and running and walking, until someone saw me and picked me up. It was an ambulance that was picking up emergency personnel. They were picking up paramedics and EMTs and police officers and firefighters. They took us to the - - drop us at the bus terminal, somewhere on the West Side Highway.
From there, we were taken to the Chelsea Piers. EMS people were taken to the Chelsea Piers because they didn't want to us stay in that area. It was too unsafe for us. We were told that at Chelsea Piers were going to be used as hospital - - different sections were divided. One was getting ready as an operating room, the other one as a critical area, the other one like for first aid and stuff like that.
We started getting busses with hundreds of doctors and hundreds of nurses and members of the clergy from different denominations and medical

I. GATTAS
equipment and a l l these areas were completely staffed and completely ready for what we were expecting we were going to get, which was patients, which we never got.
We got approximately 150 patients, but this was after 7 o'clock p.m., 7 p.m., but before that we were expecting hundreds and hundreds, which never showed up, because almost nobody made it out of that collapse of the buildings, which was so horrific, because you go there thinking you are going to be able to help, thinking you are going to be able to, you
know, assist someone, and after the first collapse we were able to help people, we were able at least, you know, people that had chest pains, had difficulty breathing and broken bones and things like that. We were able to help them, but after the second collapse, the only ones that survived were the ones that were able to run, and the ones that were able to run that made it out of there were disoriented and went back. I got disoriented. I didn't -- no idea, the slightest idea where I was, which was very scary. You couldn't see. You didn't know where you were, you didn't know
i f you were heading back because a t the end you were just kind of walking in circles. I guess God was with me and I made it out of there and had to, you know,

I. GATTAS
deal with frustration and guilt because I had to go through that because you are trained to save lives, not to just witness a horrific destruction and no bodies found, nothing found, just dust. Just dust.
That dust, I'm telling you Christine, it was so freaking itchy. I was itching for hours and hours and hours. It was like glass stuck in my skin. I went - - I don't know how many times I went to the bathroom to wash. It was like, like I had to get this thing out of my body and I cleaned my nose and my face and my arms and that thing, that dust, that stuff and when I went home, I took two baths and I still couldn't get that stuff out of my skin and I was coughing and spitting up stuff for days after that.
When we went to the Chelsea Piers, we just got ready and we were like working at a frantic pace, just trying to get (inaudible) and equipment and oxygen tanks and face masks and non-rebreathers and all this stuff to set the tables, because we had tons of tables lined up with all the basic equipment in the critical area and the other one, the operating room had lights and surgeons and everything. We had pediatricians and surgeons and we had-- anyhow, it was incredible, and also we had in the ice ring, we had an area that was

I. GATTAS
already set up as a temporary morgue, thinking that we were going to be able to locate bodies and send them at least to the Chelsea Piers.
So everything was actually set up and ready, so as time passed, we became so - - oh, my goodness, so upset and so frustrated because we were not getting anybody and the doctors that were there were more and more worried and upset and wanted to go to the Ground Zero area. They wanted to help and I think some of them managed to get authorization from EMS command to go to the Ground Zero area. That's what - - a group of them went with equipment.
I stayed there until probably not that late, until probably 7, 7:30 after that. The Chief told us that we had to go because we had to come back early the following day. And we left.
Q. Anything else you want to add to the events that happened prior to 11 o'clock in the morning?
A. 11 o'clock. I just couldn't believe when I saw the first - - I heard about the airplane crash and I said oh, my god, what a stupid mistake this pilot made, how could he miss the tower. After the second one I knew it was terrorism. I knew. My husband, he works at One Police Plaza and he called me and he said I'm on

I . GATTAS
my way. Did you hear about the news. I said yes I heard it. I said I'm on my way to work. That was the last that I heard of him until I was able to call him again earlier after 2 or 3 p.m. that afternoon. He was also stuck underground for a couple of hours and so I was worried about him. He was worried about me. My son was in school and he was very worried about us.
Q. How old i s your son?
A. He is 12. He was very worried. I just still today -- I can't believe this, I can't believe this happened, but I think that we as a team proved. We got together, we got closer, we were afraid, but we were not afraid. We never thought about dying, we only thought about helping other people. Just got really frustrated because we were unable to do that. We tried to do our best. We just couldn't do much. We just,
you know, it was horrific and I can't -- I know I said this many times, and I cried a lot since then.
I cried with my husband, I cried with my
son.
When I saw -- after I got home and I saw those pictures and I saw the people falling, oh, my god, that was when

I
I. GATTAS
I realized how bad it got.
I was there, but I really didn't realize what
was going on, but after the second collapse I didn't really knew how close we were, but after we saw the map and we realized that we were just a block away, we were around the corner and that we were supposed to be there and just fate kept us away. Just fate that we are here telling our stories because God was looking after us and I still remember this and I know I will never forget that day.
I don't know what else to say. I don't think a lot of people have a lot to say about this. Just about the pain and the sorrow and the guilt. I felt guilt so many times, regrets. I believe we should talk LO a lo^ of people.
L really showed he exLenL of he destruction, the full blast, what the collapse made of

.
I. GATTAS
I think that we were just as affected as everybody else, as any other members of any agencies involved and we should be given the same treatment and the same attention in terms of psychological stress and medical treatments, because we were very concerned after that.
The fact that I felt all that itching and all that pain and I was so - - I'm telling you I was so exhausted for days and my legs hurt so much from running and coughing for a couple of days and I got a huge hematoma on my arm, which I don't know how I got it. I know it happened after the second collapse, something hit me. It went away eventually, but
(inaudible).
I was very happy that I made it out and that
all members of my Division made it out. That's all I have to say.
Q. Thank you very much.
A. Thanks to you for coming and for listening to my story.
MS. BASTEDENBECK: This interview is now concluded. The time is 12:53.
File No. 9110147
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
 ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER THOMAS McDONALD
   Interview Date:  October 24, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
T. McDONALD
2
          MR. CASTORINA:  Today is October 24, 2001.
     I'm Ron Castorina.  Your name is?
          MR. McCOURT:  Tom McCourt.
          MR. CASTORINA:  Time now is 0810 hours.  We
     are conducting an interview.  We are at the
     central repair shop in Long Island City.  Your
     name sir?
     A.   Tom McDonald.
     Q.   Your title?
     A.   Assistant Commissioner of Fleet and Tech
Services.
     Q.   Can you tell us on September 11, 2001, on
that particular day, the events that took place?
     A.   I started my day at headquarters at 6:15
a.m., with a meeting, a weekly meeting with
Commissioner Thomas Fitzpatrick.  At the conclusion of
the meeting, I then subsequently had a meeting with
Steve Rush and Robert Scott, in Steve Rush's office.
We were conducting the meeting.  We heard a lot of
running in the hallways.  I then got beeped with a
notice of a third alarm at the Trade Center.  I came
out of Steve's office, saw Bill Feehan and found out
the events.  We went into Ray Goldbach's office and we
visually inspected.  We could see how one had been hit
T. McDONALD
3
and the size of the hole in the building.  Realizing
that it wasn't a small aircraft, that it was a larger
aircraft.
          They prepared themselves to respond.  I
responded with Pete Guidetti, who was the driver.
Commissioner Feehan, Commissioner Fitzpatrick, Captain
Ray Goldbach and myself, all in Commissioner Feehan's
car.  We crossed over the Brooklyn Bridge, came off the
bridge, went our way on to Broadway, pulled over on
Broadway, approximately between Liberty and I believe
Cortlandt Street.  As we were getting out of the car,
the second plane hit.  Would have been 2 World Trade
Center.  Literally had to duck behind the car because
metal had flown from the building to Broadway.
          Guidetti, Tom Fitzpatrick and Commissioner
Feehan donned helmets and their turn out gear.  Ray
Goldbach and myself went with them.  I believe we went
down Dey Street to Church.  We visually inspected and
sized up the buildings.  We needed to stay close to the
side line of the building, due to debris falling.  We
saw numerous people coming up out of the subway at the
corner of Broadway and Dey and running up the block.
Everybody was running away from the building.  We
crossed over Church Street, went down Vesey, went up
T. McDONALD
4
the side escalators, and saw what I believe to be a
Port Authority police officer, who told us we were
unauthorized to come in there.  He wanted us to have
helmets and turn out gear.  We identified ourselves
from the Commissioner's office.  We couldn't enter the
building.
          We came back down the escalators, and for the
life of me I can't remember how we entered the
building, but we entered what, I believe 8 World Trade
Center.  We came up, tried to find our way into the
courtyard area and we hugged the side of the buildings
and it was an overhang that we stayed under.  There
were several body parts.  We noticed metal that looked
like it came from the plane, in retrospect.
     Q.   Was debris still falling down at that time?
     A.   Yes, sporadically there was debris falling
down and there were people jumping from the building.
     Q.   You made it into the lobby?
     A.   We made it into the lobby of 1 World Trade
Center.  I believe we came off the courtyard and the
windows were blown out nearest the West Street side and
inside the lobby there was a reception area or a
control panel area for the Port Authority.  I remember
seeing Chief Hayden there trying to get a handle and
T. McDONALD
set up a command post.
5
          We met Commissioner Von Essen there.  He
spoke to Commissioner Von Essen.  He informed
Commissioner Von Essen that his first priority was to
evacuate the building, that he was not going to attempt
to extinguish the fire at this point.  That his main
priority was to get the people out of the building.  I
borrowed Commissioner Feehan's phone, tried to call my
office.  I tried to call NAT service, so that I could
get them to respond and to get my supervisors in the
area and get some road side assistance into the areas.
You knew it was going to be a prolonged operation.  I
felt the need to have back up from Fleet and NAT
service there.
          At some point Commissioner Feehan,
Commissioner Fitzpatrick and myself crossed over West
Street, went over to, I guess in front of the Merrill
Lynch building where the ramp was, where the two
garages were, to a staging area.  I remember seeing
Bill Feehan, who was with us, Commissioner Fitzpatrick,
Commissioner Von Essen, Peter Ganci, Chief of the
Department, Chief Nigro, Al Fuentes, Ray Downey.
     Q.   Father Judge?
     A.   Father Judge, I don't recall visually seeing
T. McDONALD
6
him myself.  I remember seeing a good friend, Timmy
Stackpole.  He was with Dennis Cross and Bob Ingram,
Chief Ingram.  At one point Commissioner Von Essen
turned to me and asked me to clear West Street, to move
apparatus out of the middle of West Street so that we
could have an open lane to move emergency vehicles in
and out.  Commissioner Drury was with me, along with
firefighter Ken Wagner.  I deployed them to the north
side of West Street, asked them -- we took some
immediate apparatus right in front of the staging area
and packed them closer to the median so that we could
open up the middle of West Street and they started to
work their way up West Street.
          I got to the corner of Vesey and West, where
I was looking for a Mask Service Unit that I had seen
earlier.  I wanted to get that closer to the staging
area to deploy bottles as needed.  I found them a
little bit further up Vesey towards the water.  I had
gotten help from a Sergeant Sullivan from ESU.  I
backed him out of the street.  He then informed me that
the Pentagon had been hit.  I backed the MSU truck out
with their driver.  I rode on the running board of the
truck.
          We headed then back down West Street in front
T. McDONALD
7
of the staging area.  I got off the running board, I
was running across West Street, was just about where
the red Field Communications Truck was when tower two
collapsed.
          Most people were running into the garage area
of the Merrill Lynch building.  Standing next to me was
a Fire Department mechanic, Pat Murphy.  I pushed Pat
forwards and we ran towards, I believe the Winter
Garden or it may have been the Merrill Lynch building,
but we wound up in the Winter Garden.  There was a
canopy overhead.  There was debris coming down before
we entered the building.  We got into the building,
maybe 50 feet, got behind a pillar and then got on the
floor.  A cloud of dust ensued around us.  We couldn't
see anything.  All the normal stuff, we were choking
and filled with debris.
     Q.   This is you and the mechanic?
     A.   Right, there were other people in the lobby
area.  I couldn't identify them by name or by unit.
After that, a firefighter came in turn out gear and
said that we could go out the other side.  I sent
Murphy out the other side to go through the Winter
Garden.  I went back out the way I came with the
firefighter who informed us of another way out.  He and
T. McDONALD
8
I found three firefighters laying in the rubble
outside.  They seemed to be dazed, didn't know where to
go or what to do.  We told them to get up and come into
the lobby and go out towards Vesey Street, which they
did.
          I then realized that I had an injury to my
leg.  I had a lot of pain in my left leg.  My right
ankle.  I then left the area and went back out through
the Winter Garden to Vesey Street.  I didn't try to go
back out on to West Street.
          I walked out through the Winter Garden to
Vesey Street.  Working my way through that lobby, I ran
into Commissioner Fitzpatrick.  We both exchanged a
hearty hug and glad to see you to one another.
Fitzpatrick helped me get a bottle of water and I came
out on to Vesey.  He stayed with me until we got on to
Vesey and then I don't know what direction he went.
          There was an EMT on Vesey Street, he washed
my eyes out, it might have been a lady.  I sat down in
a chair.  I felt a lot of pain in my leg.  I hobbled up
to Vesey and West.  I met Father John Delendick.  We
exchanged some hearty greetings and some prayers, then
I don't know where Father John went after that.  I
worked my way north on West, went about a block.  I sat
T. McDONALD
9
on the front bumper of a rear mount to rest my leg.
And the next thing I know is I heard that roar again.
I looked up and tower one was on its way down.
     Q.   How far were you from tower one at this
point?
     A.   I believe I was somewhere around Barclay and
West.  I ran as much as I could and I dove under a
Police Department tow truck.
     Q.   Was the debris going up that far?
     A.   Yes, we had a lot of debris coming by us,
crashing around us.
     Q.   Who were you with at this point, were you by
yourself?
     A.   Yes, I was by myself.  There was someone else
with me.  I couldn't identify the person.  We got under
the tow truck and stayed there.  The bottle of water
Fitzpatrick gave me helped me get through it because I
was choking and I was so glad to have that with me
because I was able to keep rinsing my throat out.  I
got out from under it.  It was still - it was like
midnight.  Pitch dark.  I just continued to try and
find my way, walking north and everybody else was
running or walking north on West Street.  I remember it
started to then lighten up a little bit as far as
T. McDONALD
10
visibility.  I continued to walk north.  Some people
were helping me walk because my leg was in a lot of
pain.  That's about it.
     Q.   Anything else you want to add?
     A.   No, I can't think of anything else.
          MR. CASTORINA:  Time now is 8:25.  That
     concludes the interview.  Thank you.
File No. 9110148
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
          EMT MICHAEL D'ANGELO
   Interview Date:  October 24, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
M. D'ANGELO
2
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today is October 24, 2001.
     I'm Paul Radenberg of the Fire Department of the
     City of New York.  Time is now 0845 hours.
     Q.   I'm conducting an interview with --
     A.   Michael D'Angelo, EMT, badge 5645, assigned
to Division 1, Battalion 4 of the EMS command, New York
City Fire Department.
     Q.   We are conducting the interview in the
Division 1 conference room.  This interview is
regarding the events of September 11, 2001.  Michael,
would you?
     A.   I work tour one.  I was working tour one, 1
Adam that day, which actually sits at the Trade
Center.  I got off at 8 o'clock in the morning.  I
returned to Battalion 4, changed into my civilian
clothes, hung around for a few minutes and left
approximately, little after 8:20.  I proceeded over the
Brooklyn Bridge towards home.  I wasn't paying
attention to the skyline on the BQE, but I'm sure if I
was I would have seen the first plane hit.  I was
wondering why there was so much traffic.
          Making my way through traffic, I got into the
area of the trench in Carroll Gardens between the
Brooklyn Bridge and the Battery Tunnel when I received
M. D'ANGELO
3
a phone call from a family member saying that a plane
hit the Trade Center.  I then noticed numerous papers
flying about in the air.  First thing I did was I
called up Battalion 4, I notified them I was returning
to work.  I then called my family and notified them
what I was doing.
          Then as I made it through traffic and I was
going over the BQE extension to get back on to the
Battery Tunnel, I looked and I saw the second plane hit
the building.  I then made a round, I made my way into
a line of fire trucks using my identification and went
into the Battery Tunnel.  I followed Ladder Company 132
through the tunnel.  It took a few minutes to get
through to the other side.  When I got through to the
other side I parked my car on West Street, right around
near, right about, right at the -- almost to the exit
of where the Battery Tunnel empties out.
          I proceeded to run down West Street until I
found an EMS Chief, Chief Goldfarb.  He informed me, he
says -- I told him I was off duty.  He said okay, stay
with me and my aide and you are going to assist us in
setting up a command post.  At first we were right next
to where the Mayor had set up his command post and the
original command post of where the Mayor was standing.
M. D'ANGELO
4
I was actually standing next to Chief Ganci before he
ran in the building.  I remember that distinctly.
          Then we moved it down.  We moved down into
the front of the American Express building.  He wanted
me to go inside and check out the inside of the
American Express building to see if we could set up a
triage area there, see if there was enough room.  There
was enough room, but we still weren't sure of where we
were going to set up.  I had a little bit of a table
and everything set up outside with the command board
and everything and we were just going through the steps
of taking in units and we just weren't really sure if
we were going to stay there right that second or -- so
that went on for numerous times.
          As I watched the building burn, people jump
out of the building, I can't tell you how long that
was.  Then I began to hear a rumble, I turned around
and saw debris flying everywhere, the building came
down.  I ran up West Street, across Vesey and the whole
street was blocked with emergency -- there was all
trucks, but luckily there was a small Sedan command
car, which I jumped over the hood and then ran up the
block, up Vesey Street, then I got engulfed in a large
cloud of --
M. D'ANGELO
5
     Q.   So, on Vesey you were going towards the
water?
     A.   I ran in front of here.  I ran across the
street here and I ran west down Vesey Street.  Then
that big cloud of smoke hit you.  At first I was -- at
that point I didn't see Chief Goldfarb.  I thought he
was gone because he was standing on West Street at the
time.  I thought he was gone so I just -- I began by
directing ambulances around, up North End Street, North
End Avenue, because then they had set up, I believe
they were about to set up a triage area in the back of
the theaters, the Embassy Suites, I believe is what it
was.
          I remember going back outside and I began
pulling -- bringing firemen that were walking around
covered and blind.  I was just breaking out the water,
cleaning out their eyes, cleaning out as many guys,
seeing if anybody was hurt.  I would just grab them,
give them a quick pat down on their bodies to see if
anything was broken or anything.  A lot of them were
just in shock, not sure where they were.
          I made my way down towards the water, where
they were -- where those New York Waterway ferries were
bringing over water and such.  I was leaning over and
M. D'ANGELO
6
bringing that up.  Again I kept cleaning eyes out.
Something I noticed from when I was standing in front
of the Embassy Suites at the time, I saw that the US
Secret Service were bringing somebody, an Arab man in a
suit, covered in soot, walking away in handcuffs.  I
remember that distinctly, because the guy looked right
in my eyes.
          From there I remember just -- I don't
remember treating, exactly treating guys, I was more
like just seeing how severe people were.  I mean I
helped put guys in stair chairs, but in this time I'm
not in my uniform.  I had a T-shirt on and jogging
pants.  So I am just -- I remember assisting -- I moved
Chief Cassano from one backboard -- one stretcher to
another and I helped them put the collar on him, but
around at that time it was a little bit fuzzy.
          Then we decided, me and somebody else -- I at
this point, thought most of my Battalion was wiped out,
until I started seeing a few faces.  I only saw like 5
or 6 faces and at least I knew they were okay.  But
then I decided to throw an extra -- I threw a few, I
threw a few oxygen bags over my shoulder.  I began
running up Vesey Street again, not knowing that the
second tower was going to come down as soon as I
M. D'ANGELO
7
reached the corner again.
          So I had to rip the stuff off my shoulders
and run back up Vesey Street.  I believe I dove into
either the back of the American Express building or I
dove into the 4 World Financial Center.  Just dove into
the doors and in the corner and then I realized this
isn't exactly smart.  I don't know how this building is
coming down.  So I ran out again.  Ran down towards the
water.  Then I stayed upwards around the area, like I
said, just continuing to grab people to see if they
were okay, how bad people were, treated.  I just
remember I had one guy with just a laceration on his
elbow.  I just said to him, just go, go somewhere
else.  You will be okay, you can walk, leave the area.
That's what I told any civilian, I said -- that wasn't
hurt, run north, go north.  I remember also after maybe
the first tower fell, I skip around --
     Q.   That's okay.
     A.   I remember hearing the F 15s flying overhead
and that was scary because we thought they were flying
more planes.  I didn't know what was going on.  I
thought the guy brought 15 planes and were just going
to fly them into the area, so I remember the F 15s
flying overhead.  I remember the big, big cloud of ash
M. D'ANGELO
8
that just -- it didn't make it towards the water
really.  For some reason it stayed away from the water,
I remember that.
          But -- that's basically what I kept doing.  I
was directing traffic and I didn't really like sit down
and bandage anybody or nothing like that, but I was
really just giving people on site triage.  I found
firemen that I knew and asked if they were okay.
That's basically what I was doing.  I was just checking
them.  I mean I was just taking bottles of water and
cleaning their face and cleaning the soot out.  I made
them lie down on the ground and irrigate their eyes.  I
did that for, like I said, an unknown amount of time.
That's what I did there until about probably 11
o'clock.
     Q.   Okay.  Do you remember where on West Side
Highway you met up with Chief Goldfarb?
     A.   Right about the pedestrian bridge.
     Q.   South one?
     A.   Yes, right before the south pedestrian
bridge.
     Q.   Between Cedar --
     A.   Right around there I saw him and I got his
attention.
M. D'ANGELO
Q.   Okay.  And --
9
     A.   My car was like really at the exit to where
the Battery Tunnel.  That was my car.
     Q.   From when you met up with Chief Goldfarb, you
came up here to --
     A.   No, first we went here.  We were going to set
up a command post at where the Mayor was.  That garage
there at first we were setting up.  Then we were told
to move down to here and set up a triage area inside
the American Express building.  That's where we started
massing units, like I remember numerous ambulances just
parked in the street here.  Fire trucks lined the
block.  ESU trucks up the block here.  The MERV, I
remember the MERV almost hitting me in the back with
its ramp.  As I was running away they had the ramp
still down.
     Q.   Okay.  Do you remember aside from Chief
Goldfarb any other people from EMS that you encountered
that morning?
     A.   Let's see, who were the guys I found?  I had
one guy that worked with me.  He was off duty too.  He
met with me.  Brian Cirillo.  He was with me until the
second -- he was with me almost, like in and out until
we ran back up the block for the second collapse.  Then
M. D'ANGELO
10
we ran back and then I lost him for the day.  I didn't
see him for the rest of the day.  I saw the unit of 2
Boy on North End Street.  That was Mike Mejias.
     Q.   An EMS unit?
     A.   Yes, EMS unit.  EMS.  Another guy, Garfield
Gray, he was driving -- he was running back in and
bringing whatever undamaged vehicles, ambulances back
down around the street, because they had lined up on
North End to do their jobs.  I remember that.
          I remember -- actually I remember one guy.
He is a paramedic.  I don't remember his name.  I
remember it distinctly because he met up with us at the
first command post.  And he had like maybe a
-- something with wolski I think.  He was a paramedic
off duty, but his wife was, he said his wife was up on
-- I don't know, I don't know the name.  His wife was
I believe at work at one of like the hundred and
something floor in one of the buildings.  I think it
was the north tower.  I remember that distinctly
because he just -- he really was just very emotionally
broken up.  He wasn't able to work.
Q. Right.
     A.   I didn't see him after that either.  I don't
know what happened to him.  Obviously he is alive,
M. D'ANGELO
11
because I'd hear about it.  Like I said I don't
remember the last name.
          I saw who I thought were gone -- was my -- 1
Adam, the unit I work with, tour two guys.  You see
that 89 is Church and Fulton Street.  So I thought they
were the first ones gone.  They managed to get out
because they took the first people out.  They pulled
the first people out of there and I managed to meet one
of them, one of the partners down here, down in front
of the Embassy Suites.
          I remember too, the cars started to explode
inside the parking lot.  I mean, the cars started
cooking off, they started going off, boom, boom, boom,
boom.  I remember that.
     Q.   Do you remember the partner's name from 1
Adam that you met on --
     A.   Yes.  Frank Puma.
     Q.   Puma?
     A.   Yes.  So that's -- like I said, I remember
seeing a Chief running across the street.  I remember
that distinctly.  I remember seeing the Mayor
distinctly.  I remember seeing the Commissioner arrive
and make his way to the command post.
     Q.   Commissioner Von Essen?
M. D'ANGELO
12
     A.   Yes.  I don't remember seeing any deputy --
Commissioner Feehan.  I remember seeing numerous people
jump from the windows.  I remember that distinctly.  I
saw numerous people jump.  Then actually when I found
my car, I found my car like later, later on in the day,
but I left it there, because it was not able to be
moved because it was covered.  There was an airplane
tire about 10 feet away from it.  I remember that.
Q. Right.
     A.   So yes, basically I just stayed and I did as
much as I could as long as I could, you know.  The one
thing I don't know -- I just didn't have my uniform on
me.  I would have liked to have my uniform and a helmet
on my head because that was -- but then again maybe I'm
lucky I didn't have a helmet on my head.  Like I said,
I just didn't have my equipment on me.  Now I keep it
with me at all times.  I keep everything in my trunk.
          I was running around in a pair of jogging
pants and a white T-shirt until I finally actually
picked up an EMS turnout coat I found.  That's what I
did.  Actually the only thing I did have -- no, yes,
that's about it.  That's about it.  Yes.
     Q.   Any thoughts or comments or opinions you
would like to add about the morning?
M. D'ANGELO
13
     A.   About this?  It was -- at the time I just --
adrenaline was so high.  I just -- I just did what I
-- like I was -- like I'm not sure what guided me to
do what I did.  I don't know what kept me from -- maybe
seeing that Chief is what kept me from going into the
building, maybe not having my equipment on.  I don't
know.  Maybe I wouldn't have done it even then.  But
like I said, I was there at quarter to eight in the
morning on Fulton Street.  So who knows.  I don't
know.  But I did the best I could.  That's all I could
say.  I wish I could have done more but I did what I
could do at the time.
     Q.   Okay, thank you.
     A.   No problem.
          MR. RADENBERG:  The time is now 0902.  The
     interview is concluded.
File No. 9110149
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       EMT MICHAEL MEJIAS
   Interview Date:  October 24, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
M. MEJIAS
2
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today is October 24, 2001.
     I'm Paul Radenberg of the Fire Department of the
     City of New York.  The time is now 0917 hours.
     Q.   I'm conducting an interview with --
     A.   Specialist Michael Mejias, badge 5737.
Battalion 4, Station 11.
     Q.   We are conducting the interview in the office
of the Division 1 conference room, and this interview
is regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
Michael, if you would --
     A.   All right.  My partner and I were driving
along South Street getting pretty close to the
station.  It was around maybe 8:45 to 8:50, when I
noticed that a wave of ambulances and EMS crews and ESU
and PD and Fire Department are racing down South Street
to go to the downtown area.  Said to my partner that
that has got to be an awesome job, downtown somewhere,
big job.
          Then as we continue on, we were only like a
block away from the station, I see people looking up in
the sky.  Finally my curiosity gets to me.  I told my
partner stop the car, because we drove in together.
Stop the car, stop the car.  I got to look.  I get out
and I see the World Trade Center with a gigantic black
M. MEJIAS
3
hole in the building, on fire.  So I go to my partner,
Jody, Joe, let's run.  We run into the Battalion 4
station.  I said Jody, this is a big job.  We got to
go, go, go, go.  We got an the adrenaline rush and by
that time, Battalion 4, my supervisor, Bill Melarango,
says get changed, get changed, grab a radio, go sign a
radio, grab a bus, go, go, go, go.
          We go upstairs to change.  My partner, he was
already in uniform because he was driving in with his
uniform.  He already grabbed his bags.  He went
downstairs from the locker room.  I was getting
changed, I grabbed my stuff and I ran down there.  I
grabbed vehicle 240 and a radio.  I proceeded down
there.  My partner had already left because they sent
him with another extra person that was standing by.  He
got changed before I did.
          I got into vehicle 240.  I raced down there
behind, with my supervisor, he was in the command car
behind me and I stopped on Broadway and Fulton was my
first stop.  I had -- there were people coming on to me
in hysteria, and I remember there was one lady who was
hysterical and I just grabbed her and I told her listen
ma'am, you got to be calm for me, you got to be strong
for me.  What is happening here is a really horrendous
M. MEJIAS
4
thing, I don't got time to deal with you right now.  We
got a lot of seriously hurt patients.  She was with her
girlfriend.  She goes yes, I understand that.  She said
just go save somebody.  I told her and her girlfriend
to walk towards north.  Get out of the way.
Then there was a crowd of people there on Fulton and Broadway, and I was screaming at them, listen, get out of the way, go to north, go north. A lot of shrapnel and a lot of stuff going on there. Things falling off the building, I didn't want anybody to get hurt. Then this other lady comes up to me and she just looks at me and she said I have dust in my eye. Could you look at my eye. I told her listen, can you see me. She says yes. I said listen, your eyes are fine. I put a green tag on her, triage tag, and I told her Beekman Hospital is two blocks away. Just walk straight down Fulton Street and seek help there. Igaveheralittle4by4. Shehadalittlecuton her finger.
          Then this kid comes up to me.  He is around
20 something years old.  He said he is an Army medic
and that he wants to help and I didn't have a partner
at the time so I took off my hat and I said you are my
partner now.  I gave him my EMS hat.  We both got into
M. MEJIAS
5
the ambulance together.  We road up Fulton to Vesey and
as we are driving up Vesey past the Trade Center we see
a severed leg.  We run over that severed leg and I
stopped at West Street.
          When I stop at West Street and Vesey, there
was a Lieutenant there who was setting up the staging I
guess for the ambulances.  He said let's move the
ambulance towards the water.  He just probably saved
me.  I don't even know his name, but I would recognize
his face.  He said move the ambulance towards the water
and I parked it in between West Street on Vesey and
North End.
          My partner had already set up a triage,
triage center by the World Financial Center there, on
the side, by Vesey.  So we had like three or four or 5,
maybe 5 patients.  Two of them were walking wounded.  I
think 2 or 3 of them were burned, second degree burns.
          As we are working up the patients and we are
trying to get organized, there is rumors that there is
a second plane coming.  I thought nothing of it because
you go on jobs, sometimes you get hysteria, people
thinking there's more than what is going on.  Shortly
after that, the second plane came.  I hear a big rush,
like a low flying jet and I see a massive explosion.
M. MEJIAS
6
Now I'm getting a little nervous because now I know
it's not an accident.  Now I know that the first plane
was deliberate and the second plane is deliberate.  Now
we got a problem.
          So I'm thinking to get these patients out of
there.  The nurses in the triage area by the World
Financial Center, there was nurses over there.  I
didn't even know where they came from.  They must have
came from the buildings that have nursing clinics.
Some of these buildings downtown, they have nursing
clinics in the centers there.
     Q.   Excuse me, this was in front of the American
Express building?
     A.   Yes.  Right on the side of Vesey, North End,
World Financial, whatever it is, in the middle of the
block.  There was ambulances parked and we had no
officer to give direction at the time, because it was
like we were trying to organize.  So I was the senior
guy there at the time.  My partner was there with me
and another guy from station 13.  I forget his name.
He told me that you guys interviewed him already.  He
was there.
          There was an ambulance crew in an ambulance
and I grabbed the crew and I said listen, we got to get
M. MEJIAS
7
these people out of here.  It's dangerous.  So we put
the lady who was burned in the stretcher, put her in
the ambulance.  Then I had the guy that was burned on
his back, put him in the stair chair, wheeled him over
to the ambulance and told him listen, I know it's going
-- you are going to have to sit, sir.  I know it's
going to be painful for you but I got to get you out of
here.  It's not safe.  He goes no, that's all right,
guy.  Get me out of here, get me out of here.
          So I put him in the ambulance.  The lady was
in the stretcher.  Her husband was a walking wounded, I
sent him and then there was another two, I don't
-- can't remember.  All of them had triage tags.  I
told the crew listen, don't even worry about an ACR.
They got triage tags, get them out of here.  Take them
to Cornell.  That's what I was thinking, ship them to
Cornell, but they didn't listen to me.  They took them
to somewhere like St. Vinny's or somewhere, because
with a thing like that, forget about the burn. You have
to get as many patients as you can out.
          Then as we are trying to get this other lady,
who was HYS, you know, she was in the stair chair, I'm
trying to calm her down.  I was waiting to get another
ambulance to get her out of here, but she was on
M. MEJIAS
8
delayed status because she was just HYS, there was
nothing really wrong with her.  She was hysterical like
the rest of us, you know.
          The building started collapsing, the north
tower started collapsing.  It tipped down first and
then the thing fell within itself.  It was an amazing
sight to see.  It was really unbelievable.  I thought I
was watching a movie with special effects.
          Then from there people were rushing towards
us.  We ran all the way towards the water, as far to
the water as we could go, on Vesey past North End
towards the water where the park is.  It was like a
mushroom cloud of dust and debris coming towards us and
everything.  But it didn't really -- we were safe
because we were surrounded by other buildings.  If the
tower would have fell towards West Street instead of
imploding on itself, we would have had a problem, but,
you know, it just came within itself, just tipped.
          We waited there till things calmed down.
There were a lot of firemen coming towards us with eye
problems, like irritating of their eyes, irritation of
their eyes.  We were throwing water all over them,
trying to irrigate their eyes.  Trying to clean them up
best we could.  Nobody really seriously -- serious
M. MEJIAS
9
trauma, but there was one guy, he had a real bloody
nose.  We cleaned him up best we could.
          There was equipment strewn all over the place
because everybody was running.  EMS equipment.  So we
had a stretcher, I don't know whose stretcher it was.
We grabbed the stretcher, told my partner, listen, we
got to get back in the game, man.  So we loaded the
stretcher with all the equipment that we could find.
My bus, 240, was parked on North End, right behind the
logistics truck, Alan Cruz, our supply truck, and I was
heading back to my ambulance because I was going to put
the stuff back, but they told us to go to the hotel on
North End, I forget, Embassy Suites, I think it is?
Q. Yes.
     A.   They already set up a triage there.  So we
brought all the equipment that we had, that we found,
over there.  Shortly after we get there, they want to
evacuate us out of there, because they are worried
about gas leaks, they are worried about integrity of
buildings, you know, because the front of the building
by the movie theater, that little space there was on
fire.  So now they were worried about gas leaks and all
the other stuff.
          We evacuate, we go to Stuyvesant, Stuyvesant
M. MEJIAS
10
High School from there.  I don't know even know what
street that's on.  Chambers, it's a little side street,
but it's not Chambers, it's a different name.  Anyway,
where Stuyvesant High School is.  I don't know where
that is.
Q. Okay.
     A.   So we go over there.  We evacuate all the
patients that we have there, we have like walking
woundeds in the area.  Only a few.  We got them out of
there, out of that hotel.  We grabbed as much equipment
as we could.  We evacuated and walked down to
Stuyvesant.  We loaded as much as we could on
ambulances and walked down.  They were setting up
triage there.  I didn't even go in.  I stayed right
there outside.  Then they started saying there is a gas
leak over there and they are worried about something
happening over there.
          Finally they make a decision to evacuate all
the emergency personnel to Chelsea, but my ambulance is
still on North End and Vesey.  So I give my keys to the
equipment truck guy, Allan Cruz, because he was
gathering up all the ambulances, because we had all the
equipment now in front of Stuyvesant High School.  So I
gave him the wrong set of keys.  He didn't have the
M. MEJIAS
11
ignition key.
          So he came back and said Mike, you gave me
the wrong set.  I said okay, I will get the bus.  So I
ran back in.  It was like inches of soot, it looked
like snow.  It was incredible.  I went back there and I
grabbed the ambulance.  It was still in good shape.
Didn't get hit with any debris.  I went back and I
carted as much stuff as I could.  I still have this kid
with me now.  He was with me, me and my partner, then
we put all the stuff in the -- Chief Carrasquillo told
us to go to Chelsea.
          Put as much equipment as we had in there and
as we are driving up West Street to go to Chelsea, we
are picking up all kinds of medical personnel who were
walking, because everybody got evacuated to there, so
we could set up a staging and a triage and a MASH unit,
which they did an awesome job.  It was incredible.  I
don't know if you were there.
Q. No.
     A.   It was awesome.  I was in the military as an
Army combat medic, not war time, but I had training in
that.  It reminded me, everything was perfect man.  It
was like a MASH unit set up in there, in like a
warehouse.  We had ambulances lined up in rows and we
M. MEJIAS
12
were all waiting for that call to go down there to save
some lives and that call never came.
          That was the most saddest thing about it,
that with a job this size, this magnitude, I was saying
to myself there is going to be numerous injured and we
are going to have to really depend on our skills.  Not
a call.  So that was the biggest thing.  So I waited
and waited and waited, me and my partner and this kid.
          Finally I told the kid, I said listen, there
is nothing you can do here.  It's already done.  Me and
my partner go thanks, guy, thanks for coming in.  He
left and we brought the equipment that we had in the
ambulance, we brought it in to the triage, the MASH
unit that they had, because they might need equipment.
So we just kept our base equipment for the bus.
Thatwasit. IranoutofgassowhatIdid was I told the Lieutenant, listen, I'm going to be going to -- I'm going to get gas. He said when you get gas, go to 911, go back to the 911 system, because there was no patients. Then, you know, I will admit I cheated a little bit.
          When I went out getting gas, I went down to
Whitehall Street, because I knew they were setting up a
MASH unit there and I wanted to be where the patients
M. MEJIAS
13
were.  We waited there.  The Lieutenant said I need
you, come in here.  We went there.  We stayed there
another eight hours, waiting and waiting and waiting
for patients.  No show.  It was like -- I think that
was the toughest thing, is that a job that magnitude
you would expect thousands and thousands of patients.
After the first wave, nothing.  There were no
survivors.
          That's about it.  I probably missed a few
things.  There was a package, when I -- this is like a
funny story about this job too.  There was a package
that when I came back to the ambulance with all the
equipment, it was open, my ambulance.  I had both
keys.  I said, what's this package here doing in my
ambulance?  After all the building collapses and
everything else, I didn't even think about it again.
          I put the equipment in there.  We went to the
hotel and then we went to Stuyvesant, then we went up
to Chelsea is when I realized.  I said there is a
package, I don't know how it got there.  So I took it
out.  Now I'm getting a little nervous.  That's what I
was just -- relax.  It's not an ordinary Tuesday any
more, so paranoia set in.  Because at the time I really
didn't think about it because there was such chaos.
M. MEJIAS
14
          So I go to my partner and I go Jody man,
there is a box, I had both keys and this box was found
in my ambulance.  What should I do with it.  He goes
get that out of here.  What are you, crazy man.  So I
was going to throw it in the garbage can, but I said
that's unsafe because what if somebody came and left
another device.
          So what I did I put it in the island on West
Street at Chelsea, and I flagged down a PD and the FBI
and I told them and they had the bomb squad check it
out.  It wound up being a wedding present or
something.  It was addressed to Norway, but there was
nothing we could have done about that, you know.  It
was chaotic there.  You started thinking about things
that might possibly happen.  (inaudible) just waited.
     Q.   Okay.  When you got to Broadway and Fulton,
who was the supervisor?  You said that he moved
you over?
     A.   On Broadway and Fulton, my supervisor was
behind me.  He left, he went towards the building
somewhere.  I don't know even know where he went to be
honest with you.
     Q.   Who was it?
     A.   Bill Melarango.  He was behind me in the
M. MEJIAS
15
command car.  He did his administrative stuff.  I don't
know where he went.  I was there with me and this kid
after.  When I got to West Street, West Street and
Vesey is when the supervisor, I don't know who he was.
I seen him before.  I don't know his name, but he might
have saved my life, because I was parked at West Street
and he told me listen, I want you to move that
ambulance towards the water.
     Q.   Right, right.
     A.   So that's when I went from West Street and
Vesey to North End where the supply truck was.  I
parked behind there and I walked to the triage area in
the middle of the block.  There was already ambulances
set up on Vesey between North End and West Street,
right in front of the movie theater, you know the movie
theater.
Q. Yes.
     A.   Right over there by the -- in the middle of
the block.  So I grabbed an EMS crew and we got rid of
the patients that were happening over --
     Q.   The crew that you helped with the burn
patients --
     A.   I see them before, but I don't know their
names, but when I see them I'm going to give them a
M. MEJIAS
16
good hug tight, because they got those people out of
there.
     Q.   Do you remember their vehicle number or
anything like that?
     A.   You know, I seen them before, I don't know if
they were from Queens or Brooklyn or 15.  One of them
had a -- the older guy, he is a veteran because I have
seen him before.  He wears glasses and he has like a
lazy eye that goes with (inaudible).  His partner is a
short guy, an Italian guy.  I seen them, I know that
they are both veterans.  But I don't really know their
names.  They are not really from my station.  But when
I see them I'm going to congratulate them.  They did an
awesome -- they got those patients out of there and
that's the main objective.
     Q.   Okay.  Any thoughts or comments on the day
that --
     A.   I remember, this is where I -- as you notice
that nobody from our station, Battalion 4, got killed.
Seriously, we should have lost half our people, because
we are taught, when the job, when the World Trade
Center job comes over, it gives you a whole bunch of
pages on where to set up, what to do, have you ever
seen --
M. MEJIAS
Q.   Yes.  Pre-plans.
17
     A.   The pre-plans.  The pre-plans always say go
to the concourse to the triage.  Because we were the
first wave and we got so many patients, that
technically you are supposed to do triage and the
patients had to wait until you get them out of there.
But we got such a big wave of patients, we were taking
them to the hospital, weren't really doing what we were
supposed to be doing, triage, and setting up.  That's
what saved our lives believe it or not, in my opinion.
          Because technically we were supposed to set
up triage, no patients get transported until we triage
them out.  Then we go to the concourse and set up
triage there and then we would go to various levels,
after we get organized, go to various levels of triage
on various floors.  Because we didn't have a chance to
organize because of the attack, because it turned out
to be an attack instead of an accident, you know,
that's what saved us.  By the grace of God, I think
that's what saved us, that we didn't really have a
chance to organize.
          It was so chaotic and debris all over the
place.  Because I know -- my own set-up would probably
be in the building too.  You know, so I think that's
M. MEJIAS
18
what happened.  It was a fuck up, but it really was
-- it saved our lives, this little miscue.  We didn't
really go procedure wise.  That's why we were saved.
Some rules are meant to be bent, broken, right.
Q. Yes.
     A.   That's about it.  I'm just glad everybody
survived.  I get a little teary-eyed when I see all
these funerals, all these people, they have young
kids.  It's amazing, but that was about it.
          MR. RADENBERG:  Okay.  I will first thank you
     for your time.  The time is now 0936 hours.  The
     interview is concluded.

File No. 9110150
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW CAPTAIN RAY GOLDBACH
Interview Date: October 24, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason

R. GOLDBACH
MR. RADENBERG: Today's date is October 24, 2001. I'm Paul Radenberg, Fire Department City of New York. The time is now 1047 hours. Also present is Assistant Commissioner James Drury. We are conducting an interview with Captain Ray Goldbach, executive assistant to Commissioner Von Essen. This interview is being conducted at Fire Department headquarters in relation to the events of the morning of September 11, 2001.
Q. Captain, for the record, would you identify
yourself?
A. Captain Ray Goldbach, executive assistant to
the Fire Commissioner.
Q. Captain, directing your attention back to
September 11, 2001, can you tell me what time you became aware of a problem in Manhattan and where you were when you became aware of it?
A. I believe it was sometime between 8:30 and 9 o'clock. And I was in my office. I received a phone call from Joe Higgins in communications, who told me that a plane just went into the World Trade Center. And they dumped the 1060, which is a radio signal for a major emergency.
2
- BUL I walked back i n ~ omy office, looked out my window and I could see a plane had gone into the north tower of the building. With that I got Bill Feehan. He came into the office and took a look. We went and got Tom Fitzpatrick. Tom Fitzpatrick came over, came into my office, looked over and I had said to him I believe a small plane went into the Trade Center. He said it's not a small plane. It's a commercial airline, look at the size of the hole. I couldn't see that far so I didn't know.
The girls in our office were all starting to cry already. Tom McDonald,
Assistant Commissioner Tom McDonald, who was I believe in a meeting with Tom Fitzpatrick, was there at the same time. I went down and got Peter Guidetti, the office manager out of his office. And the five of us went down to the garage. We all got into Bill's car. We went up out of the building, we went down Jay to Tillary, up Tillary and over the bridge. The police already had the bridge shut down. We got over the bridge pretty rapidly. We went down around City Hall. We got behind the police ESU truck that was on, I believe it was Broadway, going downtown. We followed

R. GOLDBACH

R. GOLDBACH
that truck all the way down to, I don't know whether it was Broadway and Dey or Broadway and Cortlandt Street, where I remember telling Peter pull over, let us out. Thousands of people running up Broadway at that time. We got out of the car. Feehan went to the back and got his coat, his helmet. Fitzpatrick had his helmet. I didn't have any gear, nor did Tom McDonald.
The four of us got out of the car, we started to cross Broadway, and the second plane went into the other tower. I don't know what time it was, but Tom McDonald yelled something like holy shit, oh, fuck. He hit the ground out on the street. We all got up. We kept walking. I believe we went down - I don't know whether it was Dey or Cortlandt Street. We walked down that block. It was littered with airplane parts, pieces of the building.
We went down and I don't know whether it was 5 or 7 World Trade Center. We tried to go around to get up into a building. There was a federal cop there who wouldn't let us up the stairs. We went up the stairs any way. We told them who we were. He let us up. We tried to go across the plaza. There were a lot of people jumping at that time, on to the plaza.
We initially went back into the building,

R. GOLDBACH
then we came back out again because we were trying to get into the command post, which was at 1 World Trade Center. We walked across the plaza back into whatever
- I think it was, might have been 5 World Trade Center. I'm not sure.
Q. When you say the plaza, are you referring to the concourse?
A. The concourse, yes, where the big fountain was there. We saw a lot of people jumping at that plaza. Went back in, worked our way down around to the front of 1 World Trade Center and went into the lobby, where at that point the command post was established. The Fire Commissioner was there when we got there. It was chaos. A lot of units reporting in and trying to organize units and give them different assignments and send them up there, but there was hundreds of people running around inside of the lobby. The Port Authority was completely overwhelmed, I believe, in their ability to cope with this at that time.
A lot of their phones were out, some of their systems were down, I remember seeing them trying to get their vests on so they could identify themselves and get in their positions.
At that point, Commissioner Feehan and Tom

R . GOLDBACH
were talking to Chief Hayden, and Chief Callan, about what we were doing, where we were setting up our
units. I don't recall seeing Chief Ganci in 1World Trade Center, nor Chief Nigro for that matter. But Tom told me, the Fire Commissioner told me to try to get some people from headquarters t o get some radios and t o come over to see to try to beef up our end of the command post once we got it set up.
I had a very tough time trying to make telephone calls to the office here from the phones there as well as using the cell phone. Eventually I got ahold of my wife, who was in her office on 55th Street and asked her to call the EOC down here and tell her to send some people over there i f they could find them. That would help us man the command post.
At that time, somebody had come into 1World Trade Center and told us that the Mayor was looking for the Fire Commissioner. I left with Tom, went out through one of the windows that had broken in 1World Trade Center. We crossed a l l the way across West Street. We are now where Ganci and Nigro had set up the command post on West Street in front of the Winter Garden. I believe we were probably over there for at least 20 minutes at some point. Saw a lot of members

R. GOLDBACH
of the Department over there that are dead. Lot of companies reporting in. We moved as many apparatus as we could. The Commissioner wanted the apparatus removed off of West Street to the sides of West Street so we could establish a path to start running ambulances from the south to the north to the victims.
So I remember talking with Tom McDonald and working with Tom McDonald and several other people, including company officers that came in, telling them to move the apparatus that was blocking West Street to the curb so that we could establish a lane. Like I said, what we were going to try to do is start - we were going to start bringing the ambulances in, turning them around down past the south tower, loading in the people, shooting them back out up north.
Then Manny Pepea from the Mayor's office came over to us again and told us that the Mayor was looking for the Commissioner and they were on Barclay Street. I walked with him and I believe it was a fire marshall, I think it was Mike Owney. We walked over towards Barclay Street. I didn't even know where Barclay Street was. We were walking towards that direction.
We went over there, we couldn't find the Mayor or his group. I said to the Commissioner let's go back to the

R. GOLDBACH
command post on West Street, I will find out exactly where we have to go, then we will make our way there.
Before we got back to the command post, somebody told us that the Mayor's group had now gone to 7 World Trade Center to the OEM command post. We went from where we were at that point, it was somewhere around Vesey or Vesey or something like that. We got into 7 World Trade Center, we took the escalator up to the second floor, then we were going to take the elevator. I think it was John Peruggia from operations, but I'm not sure, at that point told us we had to get out of that building. Everybody was evacua~edin ha^ building-
We walked out of 7 World Trade Center, now following the whole group of people from City Hall who were somewhere ahead of us. I think we were on
Washington Street near Greenwich Street, when the north tower started to collapse. I remember running and I think it was down Greenwich Street with John McLaughlin. We lost the Commissioner and the guy that he was with, the marshall. We got caught like in a

R. GOLDBACH
white out, like a blizzard, and like dust, felt like insulation. Myself and John stayed together. We were trying to get down next to - we got down on the street and on our hands and knees crawled to the curb. I remember thinking to myself I thought we were going to get run over by a car. We didn't know whether - I thought I saw the building collapsing, but I didn't believe it. I saw it disappearing into a cloud, but I thought maybe a couple of floors had fallen off.
At that point we made our way about half a block up till we could eventually see. We got ourselves together. I said to him we got to make sure we find the boss. We went back into the cloud again, myself and John, and we walked around in this dust cloud. You couldn't see your hand in front of your face. Probably a couple of minutes, just calling the Commissioner. Eventually he and the marshal1 he was with called us. They had got across the street from where we were and into a doorway.
At that point I think we walked further up Greenwich Street and somebody brought us into another building where the Mayor's whole staff was. Everybody was tremendously in panic at that point. They decided that they were going to try to stabilize the situation

R. GOLDBACH
in some way. They had to get away from this. We started working our way, I think it was up Broadway, I believe. Stopping at several places where the Mayor was looking for a place where we might be able to set up some type of - I don't know whether it was a command post or a place just to talk, and he was giving news reports as we were walking on the street. Every couple of minutes he would stop and give an update on whatever he had. Just what was going on as we were walking uptown.
We walked all the way up to 5 truck in a panic and haste situation. We just about forced our way into the fire house and we set up the - I guess the initial operations point from the Mayor's office at 5 truck. We were there for - - prior to getting to 5 truck, the other tower fell down. I remember telling Tom the other tower fell down. I saw it disappear into a cloud again and he didn't believe me, because he was continuing to walk, but I remember telling him that, at some point during the walk while we were going uptown.
Q. You were referring to Commissioner Von Essen?
A. Yes, Commissioner Von Essen. We were in 5 truck for what seemed like a long time.
Q. Where is 5 truck?

R. GOLDBACH
A. I think it's in the village, so it was a long walk. I don't know exactly where it is, but it was quite a long walk. I bet it was a mile walk. We were probably there for what seemed like at least an hour while we were trying to coordinate resources from the state, from the federal government, Fire Departments. There was a lot going on at that point. John McLaughlin had left us before we started to walk uptown. I remember telling him to try to get the car, so after the first building collapsed and before the second building collapsed, I told him we were going to be - - I didn't know where we were going. Try to get the car, get around the battery on the other side and then call me and tell him where we were going so he could meet up with the Commissioner.
Q. Tell us for the record who John McLaughlin is.
A. John McLaughlin was the Commissioner's driver that day.
Q. He is a firefighter?
A. A lieutenant, he was driving the Fire Commissioner that day. We stayed up at 5 truck for, I don't know, an hour or couple of hours. At that point, I talked to John once or twice, getting tremendous

R . GOLDBACH
amounts of phone c a l l s and pages. Everybody wanted t o know who was dead, who did you see, who we didn't see. Tom was alive. We left. John eventually got the car, got all the way back up to 5 truck, met us up there with Danny Lynch, who is a firefighter and another one of the Commissioner's drivers, who had secured another vehicle, and met us at the fire house there.
At that point, I guess the Mayor had made the decision to move the City Hall group, the operations command to the Police Academy. We left from there. We went to the Police Academy for again, I guess several hours, trying to set up some type of Fire Department command post a t the Police Academy. We had the
phones. We were looking for phones, we were looking for people, we fielded a whole bunch of phone calls up there. The police officers - we got set up - I believe it was in the library at police headquarters. We were there until sometime late in the afternoon.
At that point I had told Tom I was going to go back down to the site to try to see what was going on and I would call him back. I went down there with - I believe Danny Lynch drove me back down there. I went to the Fire Department operations post, which was at that time all the way up by Stuyvesant High School on

R. GOLDBACH
West Street. I spoke to Chief Carruthers about what resources we needed. He gave me some instructions about trying to get us - I don't even remember what it was, whether it was more units, more ambulances or whatever it was, but I passed that information back on to our people at the Police Academy at that point.
At that point, this was now late in the afternoon. I'm
going to guess it was after 3:OO.
Q. At that point in time had you heard anything
about First Deputy Commissioner William Feehan or Chief of Department Peter Ganci?
A. No, we knew they were both missing because I had inquired six or seven times throughout the day as totheirwhereabouts. Everybodyhadsaidwecouldn't find them, but at that point they had not been found. I was probably down at the operations post there by Stuyvesant High School for about 20 minutes when - it might have been Steve Mosiello, it might have been somebody else, came over to me and said we think we found Bill and Pete, Commissioner Feehan and Pete Ganci. I then walked down a couple of blocks back to the site. We were north of the Winter Garden at that point. It might have been - it was Vesey Street. We

R. GOLDBACH
walked all the way back down to Vesey Street. There was a big discussion going on at that point about pulling all of our units out of 7 World Trade Center. Chief Nigro didn't feel it was worth taking the slightest chance of somebody else getting injured.
So at that point we made a decision to take all of our units out of 7 World Trade Center because there was a potential for collapse.
Q. It was on fire, correct, Captain?
A. Yes, it was on fire at that time. Then they said it suffered some form of structural damage. These things were going on at the same time. The fact that we thought we found Ganci and Feehan and his place at 7 World Trade Center. Made the decision to back everybody away, took all the units and moved them all the way back toward North End Avenue, which is as far I guess west as you could get on Vesey Street, to keep them out of the way.
Q. A. Q. A.
hearing
At that point - -
Vesey or West?
It was as far west as we could go.
I see. Okay. Near the water?
Near the water. At that point we are still
information that we found Ganci, we found Bill

R. GOLDBACH
and we thought we had them and there was a lot of discussion going on. They thought they had Ray
Downey. I remember talking to the Commissioner on the phone and him telling me make sure we know what we are talking about. I called him back a little while later after I had spoken to Chief Nick Visconti, who told me he went back. He did have Chief Ganci and Commissioner Feehan. Next half an hour or so, we were sitting down and sent him around, how we were going to bring their bodies out, where we were going to put them. I think the Commissioner had requested that the two of them go to the morgue in the same ambulance. We were tying to set that up.
Apparently they had taken Ganci's body out towards the north side of the World Financial Center and Feehan's body out through the south side of the World Financial Center. So I was with Henry McDonald at that point on Vesey Street and they had brought Ganci's body out and put him in the ambulance. Then we were waiting quite sometime for them to find out what was going on with Bill's body. Henry had taken a walk down to the other side of the World Financial Center, went through the World Financial Center, through the Winter Garden, out past Moran's Restaurant, around the

R . GOLDBACH
back there to find out what the story was with Bill's body, i f they were going to transport it by itself, they were going t o bring him over t o us. That was probably another 20 minutes.
At that point I had met Michael Regan, who is now our First Deputy, and a good friend of B i l l
Feehan's too. We decided we would take a walk over there, try to find out what was going on to try and get this straightened out. While we walked through the 1
-World Financial Center, or 2, whichever one, I don't know which one. We went into the World Financial Center. We went through the Winter Garden, back outside again.
At that point somebody had passed by quickly there with a body. I remember saying something like I think that's Bill. He said no, Bill is in an ambulance.
He says every~hingis screwed up over here. IIo one knows what's going on. That was Bill's body. They were bringing him back. 15 minutes, 10 minutes later, absolutely no conception of what time it was, 7 World Trade Center collapsed. I remember hearing the building collapse and seeing the dust go up into the
a i r . Myself and Michael Regan walked back over t o

R. GOLDBACH
Vesey Street. At that point we had Ganci, Feehan in the same ambulance. Chief Nick Visconti had given me possession of Feehan's helmet. He had a front piece from Chief Ganci's helmet. He gave that to Steve Mosiello, and
Q. For the record, describe what a front piece is.
A. The front piece is the identifying marker on the front of your helmet. Has your assignment on there,orincaseofthestaff,ithas-- Ganci's helmet says Chief of the Department. Bill Feehan's helmet said First Deputy Fire Commissioner on it. Commissioner Feehan's helmet was pretty much completely intact. Once I got the two of them into the ambulance, Henry McDonald went to the morgue in the ambulance with Commissioner Feehan and Chief Ganci. I then went to the morgue with Michael Regan. We had gotten up there actually before the ambulance arrived there. Pretty much had a horrible scene up there too, it was - they didn't really have any people yet, but it was chaos already up there too. I guess they were trying to get set up, because they had a refrigerator truck set up

R. GOLDBACH
outside. There were hundreds of people on the street and inside. I remember them asking everybody to leave, that they didn't want this to be a circus.
Q. Was it now nighttime or still the afternoon? A. It's about dusk now.
Q. Do you know where they found Commissioner
Feehan's and Chief Ganci's bodies in relation to West Street and the World Financial Center?
A. I believe anecdotally from people that pulled them out that they were found outside of the Winter Garden, which is where I know Commissioner Feehan was and Chief Ganci was. They were both on the driveway where they had set up the command post on West Street and Tom Fitzpatrick was with them when the second tower collapsed. I think he ran a different way than they did.
When we went back there, the next day, the day after, there were markings on some of the walls down there marked with orange paint and arrows that said body and body. I don't know if that was them or not, for like a week, that's where they found the two of them. After we stayed there until they brought in Chief Ganci and Commissioner Feehan and made sure that the marshalls were going to be there with them to make

R . GOLDBACH
positive identifications on them and at that point, we got back into the car and came back to headquarters.
We spent the rest of the night trying to plan for the rest of this catastrophe.
Q. Okay. I just have a few follow up clarification questions. When you said you looked out your window, just to clarify, your office is on what floor?
A. My office is on the 8th floor.
Q. Of headquarters?
A. Of headquarters.
Q. You said you drove over the bridge in
Commissioner Feehan's car? A. Y es.
Q. As you were going over the Brooklyn Bridge could you see the towers?
A. Y es.
Q. At that point only one tower had been hit, correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. When you were in the lobby of the 1World Trade Center tower, did you see any other Chiefs in that lobby, like Chief Burns or Chief Downey?
A. I didn't see Chief Burns. I didn't see Chief
19

R . GOLDBACH - Downey. I saw Chief McGovern, who was the Battalion
Chief down there, who i s dead.
Q. Who was that, Chief McGovern?
A. No, Battalion Chief Pfeifer.
Q. Did you notice any damage to the lobby of the
building?
A. Lot of broken glass in the lobby. There was
a lot of stuff crashing down inside the lobby. Several of the windows, had to be 20 feet tall, were already broken out. There was stuff knocked over in the lobby at that point. Some of the trees. It was just - you could look up and see literally hundreds and hundreds
of people running back and forth on the next level up from where we were. We were a t street level. There was escalators. People were actually much more orderly than we expected a t that time.
Q. But there weren't many civilians down there where you were in the lobby on West Street, near West Street?
A. There was some. The ones t h a t were down there were not looking t o hang around. They were

R . GOLDBACH
coming down and trying to find a way to get out. We were trying to not let anybody out of the doors on to West Street because there was quite a few jumpers at that point. Jumping on to West Street. People jumping from tower one.
Q. Did you happen t o see Father Judge there i n that vicinity at that time?
A. I believe I saw Father Judge in the lobby of 1 World Trade Center a t some point. I don't know when it was. I don't remember having a conversation with him. I just have a recollection of seeing him. There were several people there. I have a recollection of seeing him, but I did not have a conversation with him or recall that I was speaking to him.
Q. Just a couple more questions. Obviously you at some point had to cross West Street to get to the other side, correct?
A. Y es.
Q. You were obviously very wary of jumpers, cautious leaving 1 World Trade Center?
A. Tell you the truth, I stepped outside through the glass window, I looked up and I made it as hastily as I could away from the building without trying to fall on the glass. The street was just littered with

R . GOLDBACH
glass at that point.
Q. There was a firefighter who was hit by a
jumper in that vicinity named Suhr. Did you happen to see him when you were leaving the building?
A. No.
Q. 5 truck, when you arrived up there, were there any firefighters there or had they all left to go down to the site?
A. There was nobody in the fire house when we got there, because cops were panicking at that point to get into the fire house. They were trying to jimmy the lock with a knife. I just said give me a minute. I will get you a combination for the door. They tried to break the window with an oxygen bottle. I called EOC and I got the combination of the building at the fire house. Then after 15 minutes of being there, a guy showed up.
Q. EOC i s what?
A. Fire emergency operations downstairs on the 7th floor of the headquarters. They have a l l the combinations there of the fire house.
Q. When you were walking from the vicinity of City Hall up to 5 truck, did anybody inform you of any updates regarding planes hitting any other facilities

R. GOLDBACH
such as the Pentagon?
A. No, but I remember while we were on West
Street, I remember hearing Chief Callan, I believe it was him, on the handy talky, saying to evacuate the building. That was 1 World Trade Center. Get everybody out of the building and then the piece after that was something to the extent that there was a third unidentified aircraft coming towards New York City.
The plane did not identify themselves. That was when he called for that Mayday to evacuate the building, get everybody out of the building.
Q. How long after that Mayday did the tower collapse?
A. Approximately, I would say probably between 15 and 20 minutes. Because I remember hearing somebody on the radio saying they were on the 41st floor. They were working their way down.
Q. A. Q.
A. There was a dead silence after the first building collapsed, for a period of time. Then the
You mean a firefighter?
It was a company officer, yes.
At some point did you lose radio communication, either before or after the first collapse?

R. GOLDBACH
radio traffic even after that was somewhat subdued. I believe that's because most of the people on the radios were probably dead at that point.
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY: I have nothing further Captain. Thank you very much. The time is now 11:17 and we will conclude this interview.
24

FILE NO 9110151
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT ALEXANDER LOUTSKY
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 24 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

LOUTSKY
MR RADENBERG TODAY IS OCTOBER 24 2001 IM PAUL RADENBERG OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK THE TIME IS NOW 0632 HOURS
IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH EMT ALEXANDER LOUTSKY OF BATTALION
THIS INTERVIEW IS BEING CONDUCTED AT EMS
BATTALION REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11
2001 ALEX BEGIN WITH WHEN YOU WERE ASSIGNED TO THE JOB OR
OKAY WELL WHAT HAPPENED WAS HAD JUST EXCHANQED VEHICLES AT BATTALION AROUND LITTLE
AFTER 830 AND WAS IN VEHICLE WAS REASSIGNED TO VEHICLE 219 AS WAS GOING BACK TO MY AREA WHICH IS
FEW BLOCKS FROM THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WAS TALKING WITH MY PARTNER HANK RAMOS AND SAW IN FRONT OF ME
WHILE WE WERE ABOUT WOULD SAY AROUND PEARL STREET
WE HAD VIEW OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WHICH WAS ONLY
FEW BLOCKS AWAY AND STOPPED HIM AND SAID TO LOOK AT THAT PLANE THAT IT WAS FLYING EXTREMELY LOW AND THAT IT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS ABOUT TO HIT FEW SECONDS LATER IT DID HIT
SH UP SIGNAL TO LET THEM KNOW THAT IT WAS AN EMS CONFIRMATION
AFT THAT KIND
PICKED UP THE RADIO AND TRANSMITTED PRIORITY

LOUTSKY
THAT PLANE HAD IN FACT HIT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
AFTER THAT THE DISPATCHER ACKNOWLEDGED IT BUT THE RADIO THEN BECAME FLOODED WITH SO MANY DIFFERENT
SIGNALS THAT WE WERENT ABLE TO REALLY LET HIM KNOW WE WERE HEADED THERE
WE WERE JUST COUPLE OF BLOCKS FROM THERE
SO WE DID WE HEADED THERE AND WE WERE WE WENT TO CHURCH AND FULTON STREET WHICH WAS RIGHT BY THE MILLENNIUM HOTEL WE ACTUALLY WERE RIGHT BY
ACTUALLY ORIGINALLY SHOULD SAY WE WERE MORE CLOSE TO THE ST PAULS CEMETERY WE WERE PARKED RIGHT THERE
WHEN WE GOT THERE WE NOTICED THAT THERE WAS GREAT NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT WERE STREAMING OUT OF THE
WORLD TRADE CENTER THEY LOOKED TERRIFIED THEY WERE PANICKED SOME OF THEM HAD VARIOUS DEGREES OF
INJ11RI MANY IH JIISI RUNNING WCMIIND AS
IT WERE BUT THEY HAD VARYING DEGREES OF INJURIES BUT THEY WERE RUNNING SO FORTH AND SO ON WE WERE
BASICALLY
INUNDATED
WE COULDNT RADIO WAS OPERATING THE
VEHICLE THAT DAY SO WAS SUPPOSED TO BE MAKING THE
RADIO TRANSMISSIONS AND DO IT BECAUSE IT WAS JUST
WITH SO MANY SIGNALS THAT
JUST FOUND IT IMPOSSIBLE TO
INUNDATED JUST JAMMED WASNT ABLE TO WE HAD SO

LOUTSKY
MANY VICTIMS THAT CAME UP TO US THAT SOME OF THEM MY PARTNER WAS ATTENDING TO OTHERS TRIED TO MAKE AN
ATTEMPT HOWEVER IT WAS VAIN ATTEMPT AT HAVING TRIAGE AND TRYING TO LINE THEM UP AND TAG THEM
THERE WERE JUST TOO MANY OF THEM AND MANY OF THEM WERE ASKING QUESTIONS AND SOME OF THEM WERE IN SUCH SHOCK THAT THEIR QUESTIONS SEEMED YOU KNOW JUST
WASTE OF TIME LIKE SHOULD GO BACK IN AND GET MY WIFE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT WE TRIED OUR BEST THAT WAY
BEHIND US
THEN WHAT HAPPENED IS THE SECOND UNIT CAME BELIEVE IT WAS BOY IT WAS DAVID
CANT RECALL OFFHAND WHO HE WAS WORKING WITH OH JAI ZION BELIEVE HE RESIGNED THEY THEN CAME AND TOGETHER WE TRIED TO DO THE SAME THING THEN
AT THAT POINT FIRE TRUCK CAME THROUGH AND WE STARTED THEN WE STARTED TO REALIZE THAT WITH THE AMOUNT OF
PEOPLE SWELLING THAT THE AREA WAS GOING TO BECOME DIFFICULT FOR FURTHER EMERGENCY RESOURCES TO GET THROUGH SO WE TRIED TO MAKE ROOM AND SO FORTH AND SO ON
TH GU JUST AB THAT TIM IF MY MEMORY SERVES ME IT WAS LIEUTENANT DAVILA HE CAME ON
THE SCENE AND WE WERE ABLE TO AT LEAST HAVE SOME
TIMOTHY AND

LOUTSKY
SEMBLANCE OF COMMAND WHEN THAT OCCURRED HE HAD
ORDERED US TO GO TO PROCEED WITH HIM TO WEST STREET
REALLY IN BETWEEN VESEY AND LIBERTY MORE LIKE WHERE
WORLD TRADE CENTER WAS WE HAD NUMBER OF VICTIMS WHO
BECAME OUR PATIENTS AND WE WERE SUCCESSFULLY TAGGING THEM AND WOULD SAY LESS THAN 10 AT THE TIME YOU
KNOW MANY PEOPLE WERE JUST RUNNING WITH THEIR
INJURIES THE ONES THAT WERE WILLING TO RECEIVE HELP
YOU KNOW PROBABLY HAD FOR WHATEVER REASON THEY TOOK OUR HELP
AT ANY RATE WHAT HAPPENED AT THIS TIME WAS WE WERE TRYING LIEUTENANT DAVILA SAID THAT OUR
01 CHARLIE WHICH WAS OUR UNIT THAT MY PARTNER AND MYSELF WERE STAGING OFFICERS AND THAT WE WERE TO FOCUS
SOLELY ON THAT AND NOT TO GET SIDETRACKED BY OTHER THINGS SO WE DID THAT
OUR DUTIES SEPARATELY WERE TO TRY TO HELP GET THE PEOPLE IN AMBULANCES AND OUT OF THERE AND TO TRY TO GET THE ONES THAT WERE HAD INJURIES THAT WERE NOT SO LIFE THREATENING TO GET THEM OUT OF THE BOROUGH SO
THAT THEY DONT INUNDATE HOSPITALS AND TO DO THE BEST
CAN IN NAM WHAT AMBULANC WENT WHERE AND SO FORTH AND SO ON
AROUND THAT TIME DIDNT AT THE TIME

LOUTSKY
REALIZE IT BUT FROM WHERE WE WERE AT WHICH WAS RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ON THE WEST SIDE
HIGHWAY AREA THERE WAS AN EXPLOSION AND LOT OF DEBRIS STARTED COMING DOWN APPARENTLY THAT WAS THE
SECOND PLANE THAT HIT WE LOST ALL OF OUR PATIENTS IN TERMS OF THEM RUNNING AWAY THEY THE NOISE AND THE DEBRIS SCARED THEM ALL AWAY AND THEY RAN OFF WE DIDNT HAVE ANY LEFT
WE WENT INTO OUR VEHICLE AND LIEUTENANT DAVILA WENT INTO THE COMMAND VEHICLE AND WE STARTED
PROCEEDINQ TOWARDS THE DIRECTION OF LIBERTY IN OUR AMBULANCE AND THERE WAS TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF DEBRIS COMING DOWN IN THAT AREA WE JUST TOOK TURN UP LIBERTY THIS WAY TO DO TURN BECAUSE THIS WAS LIKE DESTROYED
OKAY TOWARDS THE HUDSON
RIGHT SO LOT OF THINGS WERE RAINING DOWN
WE KNEW WE HAD TO GET OUT OF THERE WE TURNED AROUND AND WE WENT BACK ON THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY MADE RIGHT TURN ON VESEY AND THEN MADE RIGHT TURN ON FULTON AND CHURCH AND WE WERE AT THE MILLENNIUM HOTEL AREA ONCE AGAIN
THERE WE WERE UNDER WE HAD MORE RESOURCES MORE EMERGENCY MEDICAL COMMAND RESOURCES ARRIVED AND WE

LOUTSKY
WERE STILL FUNCTIONING AS STAGING OFFICERS AS
LIEUTENANT DAVILA DIRECTED US TO BE AND IT SEEMED LIKE
THAT WAS GOING VERY SUCCESSFULLY IN TERMS OF EVACUATING PEOPLE OUT OF THERE IN FRONT OF THE MILLENNIUM HOTEL
THAT BECAME TRIAGE AREA IT WAS EFFECTIVE IT WAS
PEOPLE WERE TAGGED IT SEEMED VERY ORGANIZED IT WAS GOOD BECAUSE THERE WAS SO MANY PEOPLE SO MANY PEOPLE COMING OUT OF THERE AND SOME OF THEM WERENT ABLE TO AMBULATE SO THEY WERE BEING CARRIED OUT SO FORTH AND SO ON SO WE WERE ABLE TO ASSIST IN THAT
SO ASSISTED NUMEROUS TIMES HELPINQ PEOPLE LIKE TAKING THEM FROM CIVILIANS SO FORTH AND SO ON
DID WHAT WAS INSTRUCTED TO DO IN TERMS OF TRYING TO GET PEOPLE THAT WERE AT LEAST THE LEAST
AMOUNT OF INJURIES OUT OF THE BOROUGH WE HAD NUMBER OF AMBULANCES AND WE TRIED AS BEST WE COULD TO PUT AS MANY PEOPLE AS WE CAN AS POSSIBLE WITHOUT CAUSING ANY KIND OF DANGER TO THEM OR ANYONE ELSE SO WE WERE SUCCESSFUL IN TRYING TO GET MAXIMUM OF PATIENTS PER AMBULANCE THE MORE SEVERE CASES YOU KNOW LIKE THE BURNS THE THIRD DEGREE BURNS AND SO FORTH THAT WENT TO
TRI PATI THAT KIND
THAT CONDITION TOGETHER OR IF THEY WERENT BURNS AT LEAST SOMETHING THAT WAS THAT NEEDED TRAUMA CENTER
WAY

LOUTSKY
OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT
WE DID THAT ONLY HAD LITTLE CONFUSING
TIME WHEN HAD CERTAIN YOU KNOW HAD MY INSTRUCTIONS GIVEN TO ME FROM LIEUTENANT DAVILA BUT THERE WERE AT TIMES WAS SIDETRACKED BY VARIOUS CAPTAINS THAT WERE TRYING TO GIVE ME DIFFERENT ORDERS THAT WERE FEW THINGS THAT KIND OF SIDETRACKED ME AND DIDNT THINK IT MADE ENTIRELY ENOUGH SENSE BUT TRIED THE BEST COULD TO OBEY IT
BUT IT WAS VERY CRAZY THERE AT THE TIME LIKE ONE OF THEM WANTED ME TO QET EVERY SINQLE
PATIENTS NAME AND IT JUST WAS NOT POSSIBLE THERE WAS SO MUCH SCREAMING AND IT JUST SEEMED LIKE THE WORST QUESTION TO ASK IN THE MIDDLE OF AN AMBULANCE WHILE PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING AND SCREAMING IT JUST DIDNT
WORK OUT THAT WAY
DID MY BEST YOU KNOW IN TERMS OF THAT
THATS STUCK WHY JUST STAY
BUT YOU KNOW JUST CONTINUED TO DO AND KEEP MY FOCUS AS LIEUTENANT DAVILA TOLD ME TO DO JUST TO FOCUS ON WHAT WAS DOING BECAUSE KNOW THAT IF STARTED GETTING SIDETRACKED THEN NOTHING WAS GOING TO
ACC WITH WHAT WAS DOING
SO THEN ACTUALLY RIGHT AROUND THAT TIME WHEN

LOUTSKY
HAD THAT LITTLE CONFUSION IN MY MIND BECAUSE WAS
TOLD TO DO SOMETHING THAT JUST DIDNT SEEM TO
JUST SEEMED LIKE CERTAIN BRASS IN MY MIND WAS LIKE
IT
MAYBE THEY JUST HAD LIKE THEY REALLY DIDNT HAVE MUCH STREET TIME OR SOMETHING IF YOU DONT MIND ME SAYING THAT THEY WERE LIKE IN AN OFFICE SO MUCH AND THEN
THEY ARE ASKING ME WITH THEIR AUTHORITY TO DO SOMETHING THATS NOT GOING TO BE PRODUCTIVE BUT CANT QUESTION IT BUT DO YOU KNOW WHAT MEAN
YES
SO WAS IN THAT LITTLE QUANDARY AT THE TIME
BECAUSE IM SAYING WELL HOW IM TRYING TO GET THE
NAMES BUT THE PERSON IS SCREAMING IN AGONY AND THEY WANT TO GET THEM OUT OF THERE THEN ANOTHER PERSON IS
SCREAMING CANT EVEN HEAR THEM YOU KNOW IM TRYING TO COMPLY WITH THIS YOU KNOW BUT WHAT WAS
MOSTLY MORE IMPORTANT WAS EVACUATING THEM GETTING THEM TREATED AND TRANSPORTED OUT OF THERE BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH DIDNT AND DIDNT THINK THAT ANYBODY
THOUGHT THAT THE BUILDINGS WERE GOING TO COLLAPSE WE
KNEW IT WAS NOT SAFE SCENE THERE WAS
WAS ALL KINDS THINGS THAT HAPP
WE KNEW WE WERENT NECESSARILY IN THE HOT ZONE BUT WE WERE IN THE WRONG ZONE SO THE RISKS
DEBRIS THERE

LOUTSKY
INCREASE SO WE JUST WANTED TO DELIBERATE TOO MUCH ON ONE THING AT ANY RATE AT THAT TIME KNOW AND THEN IT WAS YOU KNOW LIKE AN EARTHQUAKE
10
YOU KNOW RATHER THAN LIKE THAT BUT ANYWAY
HEARD RUMBLE YOU REALLY LIKE ALMOST
THEN WHAT HAPPENED WAS HEARD PEOPLE
SCREAMING AND RUNNING AND THEN IT SEEMED LIKE THEY WERE GOING TO IT WAS LIKE GOING TO BE TRAMPLING IT
WAS JUST LIKE BEDLAM OF THE PATIENTS THAT WE HAD THAT HAD ANY ABILITY TO AMBULATE OR MAYBE DIDNT THINK THEY DID HAD THEN HAD THE ABILITY TO
FOUND IT
THEN STARTED TO RUN FOR SAFETY TOO BECAUSE
LOOKED UP AND SAW THAT THE BUILDING WAS GOING TO COME DOWN WE WERE RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM IT YOU KNOW SO AT FIRST THERE WAS SO MANY PEOPLE THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING TO TRAMPLE ME THAT WENT BY THE MILLENNIUM HOTEL THERE IS LIKE DRIVEWAY WITH ONE OF THOSE AUTOMATIC LIFTING GATES STEEL GATES THAT ROLL UP
WENT THERE THERE WAS COP THERE HE WAS
KN
ABOVE HIM AND SAID THERE IS
IS NO PLACE TO GO YOU KNOW
AND WAS HERE THERE
TRUCK FOR
TRYING
NO SECURITY WAS UNDER

LOUTSKY
SECOND OR TWO BECAUSE WELL DUCKED DOWN YOU KNOW BECAUSE THERE WAS SO MANY PEOPLE AND THERE WAS THEY
WERE JUST GOING TO ROLL YOU KNOW TROD ME
SO WHAT HAPPENED WAS SUDDENLY WAS NEAR THAT GARAGE AREA THE SKY AS IT BLACKS OUT AND THEN ALL OF SUDDEN IT JUST CAME DOWN THERE WAS NO PLACE TO GO THERE WAS NOTHING YOU COULD DO YOU WERE JUST THOROUGHLY OVERCOME BY THE PARTICULATE MATTER IT JUST WENT TOTALLY BLACK YOU NO LONGER HEARD
ANYTHING IT WAS LIKE YOUR FINGERS WERE IN YOUR EAR EVERYTHINQ WAS JUST NUMBED OUT THERE WAS SO MUCH PARTICULATE MATTER THAT IT COVERED EVERY ORIFICE YOU COULDNT TAKE BREATH IN YOU COULDNT SEE YOU COULDN ANYTHING
WAS JUST KIND OF LIKE PUTTING MY HAND OUT
AND DIDNT EVEN KNOW WHERE DIDNT KNOW EXACTLY WHICH DIRECTION WAS FACING ANY MORE DIDNT KNOW IF WAS KNEW THAT WAS ON KNEW THAT WAS
ON FULTON STREET JUST OFF OF CHURCH BECAUSE RAN UP TO LIKE HERE RIGHT ON THE SIDE OF THE MILLENNIUM
HOTEL ACROSS THE STREET FROM ST PAULS CEMETERY BUT
DIDNT KN IF WAS FACING TH DIDNT KNOW IF WAS FACING THE MILLENNIUM HOTEL DIDNT KNOW IF WAS FACING CHURCH DIDNT KNOW IF WAS
11

LOUTSKY
FACING BROADWAY WAS TOTALLY BLIND AND DISCOORDINATED IN THAT AND COULDNT HEAR ANYTHING
MORE IMPORTANTLY COULDNT BREATHE AT ALL WAS KIND OF PANICKY ABOUT THAT THEN THOUGHT MAYBE
IF DUG HOLE IN THE CEMETERY AND PUT MY HEAD IN IT OR SOMETHING OR IF DIDNT KNOW WHAT TO DO
WAS VERY SCARED BECAUSE KNEW WAS GOING TO DIE AT THAT POINT THERE WAS NOTHING YOU KNOW THOUGHT AND
HAD SOME THOUGHTS LIKE THOUGHT WELL WHAT IF THIS IS BIOLOGICAL NOW OR RATHER CHEMICAL WHAT IF THIS IS
BOMB ACTUALLY THAT WENT OFF AFTER THE PLANE CRASHED AND NOW MAYBE THERE IS SOMETHING CHEMICAL THEN SAID
WELL MAYBE THE HEAT WOULD HAVE DESTROYED IT
BUT THAT WAS REAL QUICK THOUGHTS BUT IT NEVER
REALLY STAYED WITH ME BECAUSE
WAS PANICKING WAS
STARTING TO PANIC AND FIGURED THEN WOULDNT
THOUGHT DIDNT HAVE
DIDNT HAVE CHANCE MATTER
WANT TO PANIC
CHANCE BUT THEN ANYWAY BECAUSE THERE THAT WAS JUST CAUSING
WAS THIS PARTICULATE
TOTAL BLACKNESS AND YOU COULDNT EVEN USE ANY OF YOUR
SENSES OR BREATHE WASNT GOING TO SETTLE WASNT GOING
BR IT WAS HARD FOR ME TO ACCEPT IT ENTIRELY
CATCH
KIND OF LIKE REALIZED THAT THAT WAS THE SITUATION BUT
QUICK
12
BECAUSE

LOUTSKY
SO KIND OF LIKE WAS FEELING AROUND ME AND WAS USING MY RADIO AND WAS BANGING AROUND AND WAS BANGING AROUND KNEW WHEN TOUCHED SOLID
MATERIAL BUT BECAUSE THE PARTICULATE MATTER WAS SO
THICK DIDNT KNOW WHAT THE MATTER WAS DIDNT KNOW IF IT WAS CONCRETE WOOD OR WHAT BUT WHAT DID DO AND
HIT IT WITH MY RADIO WAS HEARD GLASS CRACK SO PUT MY HAND INSIDE AND THEN PUT MY HEAD IN AND IT
TURNED OUT TO BE VAN WHICH
THE TIME BUT BECAUSE FELT
SO
OF WENT IN AND MY HEAD WAS DOWN AT THE BOTTOM AND WAS
HAD IT COVERED WITH MY JACKET BUT STILL THE
FIGURED IT WAS
CHAIR AND STUFF LIKE THAT
DIDNT KNOW FULLY AT VEHICLE OF SOME KIND
PUT MY HEAD AND HALF MY BODY AND KIND
PARTICULATE MATTER WAS
SOON AS THE WINDOW WAS
GAVE ME ENOUGH WHERE
MYSELF TO JUST DONT BE GREEDY AND TAKE SHORT BREATHS
WAS UNDER THERE AND WAS JUST TAKING SHORT BREATHS SHORT BREATHS AND CALM DOWN SO YOU DONT REQUIRE SO
MUCH IT WAS HARD TO DO THAT THOUGH BUT KN
IT WORKED THE PARTICULATE MATTER SETTLING LITTLE BIT MEAN IT WAS LIKE
TRIED MY
WAS
FOG AND
SO DENSE AND THE PRESSURE AS
OPEN IT PUSHED IT IN BUT IT
JUST CALMED MYSELF AND JUST TOLD
13

LOUTSKY
STARTED GETTING OUT OF THERE CAME OUT WAS HALF IN THE VEHICLE CAME OUT OF IT AND COULD SEE NOW
THAT IT WAS VAN AND
EVERYTHING WAS LIKE
THATS WHERE WAS
COUPLE BLOCKS DOWN FROM THERE SO STARTED IN THAT DIRECTION
STILL COULDNT BREATHE WELL YOU KNOW BECAUSE THE PARTICULATE MATTER WAS STILL THERE BUT
COULD SEE AND COULD TAKE SHORT BREATHS AND WOULD COUQH LOT AND STUFF LIKE THAT BUT TRIED MY BEST
AND IT DID WORK AND GOT TO THE HOSPITAL THEY GAVE ME OXYGEN WHERE WAS STANDING AND THEN THEY CLEANED ME UP IN THE SINK THEY PUT MY HEAD IN THERE AND THEY TOOK PULSE OX OF ME WHILE WAS STANDING AND STUFF AND YOU KNOW CLEANED MY FACE BECAUSE IT ALL CAKED AND STUFF
LIKE THAT
THEN AFTER THAT IT WAS JUST FEW MINUTES WENT BY AND TOLD THEM IM DONE AND HAVE TO GO
BACK THEY TOLD ME TO STAY AND SAID NO TOLD THEM
WAS FINE BUT WANTED TO GO BACK BECAUSE FELT LIKE
MIGHT HAV ABAND MY MY PARTN TH AND THAT WAS WHERE BELONGED SO STARTED GOING
BACK YOU KNOW AND WAS COUGHING AND HACKING LOT
COULD SEE BROADWAY BUT
DENSE FOG BUT COULD KNOW THAT
KNEW THE HOSPITAL WAS DOWN
14

LOUTSKY
BUT IT DIDNT MATTER BECAUSE FELT LOT BETTER
WAS JUST YOU KNOW GETTING IT OUT
SO WENT BACK AND WHEN GOT BACK SAW ON
BROADWAY SOME OF US WERE THERE SAW MEN WITH LIEUTENANT DAVILA HE WAS GETTING JUMPED ON ME AND
HUGGING ME AND CRYING AND EVERYTHING SO ASKED HIM WHERE MY PARTNER WAS WHERE ERIC IS AND THEY DIDNT
KNOW YOU KNOW
SO WENT BACK AND THAT WAS ON WHERE MET
THEM WAS ON FULTON STREET AND BROADWAY RIGHT HERE SO JUST WENT BACK HERE WHERE WAS AND SAW THAT IT WAS
IT HAD COLLAPSED THE NORTH TOWER HAD COLLAPSED MY AMBULANCE WAS RIGHT OVER THERE
IT WAS IN FLAMES AND MET FIREFIGHTER
THERE ALEX SANTORO AND THIS POLICE OFFICER DONT REMEMBER HIS NAME AND THE THREE OF US WERE YOU KNOW WE HAD GONE THROUGH IT DIDNT KNOW THEY DID THEY DIDNT KNOW DID WE WANTED TO TRY TO FIND OUR PEOPLE SAID WHERE IS MY PARTNER AND THE COP SAID DONT KNOW WHERE MY PARTNER IS AND STUFF LIKE THAT
SO WE DECIDED TO STICK TOGETHER RATHER THAN AND TRY WH FIND ANYB
KNOW IN THIS MESS ESPECIALLY OUR PEOPLE SO THATS WHAT WE DID THEN WE WERE LIKE RIGHT AROUND HERE ON
15

LOUTSKY
DEY STREET LIKE RIGHT HERE DEY AND CHURCH
RIGHT RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE SOUTH TOWER AND THEN THE SOUTH TOWER WE HEARD RUMBLE AND
WE DIDNT EVEN LOOK WE RAN OKAY WE RAN TELL
YOU MY LEGS WERE SORE FOR THREE DAYS AFTER THAT JUST THAT JOG THAT TOOK WE RAN FROM HERE WHICH IS ON
CHURCH STREET AND DEY OKAY RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET WAS WHERE THE SOUTH TOWER WAS
SO WE WERE ON ON CHURCH AND DEY STREET RIQHT HERE RIQHT ACROSS THE STREET AQAIN FROM THE
WORLD TRADE AND WHEN WE HEARD THAT RUMBLE WE DIDNT EVEN LOOK IT WAS LIKE INSTINCT THE THREE OF US
WITHOUT EVEN LOOKING AT EACH OTHER JUST THE BEGINNINGS OF THAT RUMBLE WE JUST SPRINTED OUT OF THERE AND WE
ACTUALLY MADE IT UP DEY STREET WE CROSSED BROADWAY AND THERE WAS RIGHT IN HERE LITTLE CHOCOLATE CANDY
STORE OKAY NOW THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN BEAT THAT THING WHEN IT COLLAPSES THERE IS NO WAY AT ALL THAT
CAN TELL YOU SO WHEN WE HEARD THAT RUMBLE THAT THING CAME DOWN AND THE WHOLE THING WENT BLACK THE
INT THAT CANDY ST
WE SLAMMED THE DOOR AND AS WE SLAMMED THE
DOOR ALL OF THE PARTICULATE MATTER WITH THE PRESSURE
16

LOUTSKY
THAT IT HAD WAS BILLOWING INSIDE THAT CHOCOLATE STORE BUT NOT ENOUGH TO OVERCOME US YOU KNOW AND WE WERE IN
THERE
WE DIDNT KNOW AT THIS POINT THERE WAS RADIO GOING ON AT THIS TIME REMEMBER IT SAYING THE
PALESTINIANS ARE TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS
DONT KNOW HOW ACCURATE AT THAT TIME THAT WAS BUT IT CAME OFF OF THAT AN RADIO SO WE WERE KIND OF LIKE
LOOKING AT EACH OTHER AND MEAN WE DIDNT KNOW WHAT TO MAKE OF IT WE THOUGHT THAT MAYBE WE WERE AT WAR DEFINITELY WE WERE AT WAR YOU KNOW THOUQHT WE WERE AT WAR BECAUSE DIDNT THINK THAT THE PLANE TO MY KNOWLEDGE FROM WHAT UNDERSTOOD THAT THE PLANE WAS ENOUGH TO DO THAT YOU KNOW
THOUGHT WE WERE AT WAR DIDNT KNOW IF THERE WAS GOING TO BE ANY CHEMICAL STUFF BEING USED DIDNT HAVE ANY FELT ILL EQUIPPED IN THAT
RESPECT DIDNT FEEL THAT HAD ANYTHING TO PROTECT ME WITH RESPECT TO THAT
WE JUST DECIDED THAT WHAT WE WERE GOING TO DO WAS WE REAFFIRMED THE FACT THAT WE WERE GOING TO
STICK TH THR US DIDNT KN WHAT WAS GOING ON WE DIDNT KNOW IF WE WERE GOING TO GET
OUT OF THERE WE DIDNT KNOW THAT NECESSARILY THE
17

LOUTSKY
WORLD TRADE CENTER WAS FULLY COLLAPSED OR IF IT WAS GOING TO COLLAPSE IN THE FASHION THAT WE NOW KNOW IT
DID BECAUSE THERE WAS AN INAUDIBLE OPEN MIGHT HAVE FALLEN OVER
TOPPLED
IT WAS TALL ENOUGH TO CRUSH WHERE WE WERE AT
WITHOUT DOUBT SO WE WERE SAFE FROM THE PARTICULATE MATTER BUT WE DIDNT FEEL SAFE IN TERMS OF US GOING TO
GET CRUSHED
WE PUT THAT ASIDE AND ALEX SANTORO THE
FIREFIQHTER HE SAID WELL ALEX LETS JUST START
SAVING UP WATER BECAUSE THE WATER MAIN IS GOING TO GO
PROBABLY MORE THAN LIKELY BECAUSE OF THE SITUATION THEY MAY SHUT THEM DOWN
IT HAD THESE BIG GLASS JARS STARTED EMPTYING THEM OUT THE CHOCOLATES PUT IN PILE BECAUSE WE MIGHT USE THAT AS FOOD TOO TAKE THE CANISTER AND CLEAN IT OUT AND START FILLING IT WITH WATER AND THEN THE OTHER
ALEX THE FIREFIGHTER HE WOULD SEAL IT WITH PLASTIC
TH THATS WHAT
BECAUSE WE DIDNT KNOW HOW LONG WE WOULD BE THERE
LA LA LA SO THATS WHAT WE DID
SO STARTED TO BECAUSE IT WAS
CANDY STORE THE OLD CHOCOLATE BIG CHOCOLATE YOU KNOW AND
18

LOUTSKY
WE DID THAT FOR WHILE SEEMED LIKE
WHILE GOT THIS HAD CELLPHONE THEN THAT HAD
JUST GOT LIKE TWO DAYS BEFORE THOUGHT WELL LET ME SEE IF CAN CALL SOMEBODY AND SEE IF ANYBODY IS AROUND IF ITS MORE EXTENSIVE THAN WE THINK IF
COULD GIVE MESSAGE TO MY MOTHER OR MY FAMILY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT COULDNT GET THROUGH TRIED
FEW NUMBERS ONE OF THEM ACTUALLY WENT THROUGH IT WAS AN ANSWERING MACHINE AND LEFT MESSAGE ON THE
FRIEND
MESSAGE YOU KNOW THE LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT KIND OF THING AS IF IN FACT THEY WERENT GOING TO BE AFFECTED
BY IT SO DID THAT
THEN AFTERWARDS THE COP WAS SAYING STAY
AWAY FROM THE DOORS BECAUSE IF THERE IS ANY FRANTIC POLICE OFFICERS OUT THERE THEYLL USE THEIR GUNS SO
REMEMBER THAT THEN THINK THERE WAS ALSO SOME
CIVILIANS THAT WE WERE ABLE TO GET INSIDE THAT WERE YOU KNOW STRAGGLING ONE OR TWO OF THEM COULDNT BREATHE OUT THERE AND WE WANTED TO GET THEM IN BUT WE HAD IT QUICK TH MINUT THAT DOOR THE WHOLE THING WOULD GET FILLED FLOODED
SO ANYWAY WE DID THAT FOR WHILE AND THEN
FRIENDS THAT REALLY DIDNT KNOW TOO WELL BUT LEFT
ANSWERING MACHINE YOU KNOW IT WAS
19

LOUTSKY
AS THE THING STARTED TO SETTLE OUTSIDE LOOKED FOGGIER INSTEAD OF BLACK SO WE ALL DECIDED LETS GO OUT AND LETS GO FIND SURVIVORS YOU KNOW SO THATS WHAT WE DID WE STARTED ON LETS SEE WHERE DID WE GO
DONT THINK YES WE WERE ON JOHN BUT DID WE GO DOWN JOHN YES WE WENT DOWN JOHN STREET AND EVERY
BUILDING SIDE TO SIDE WE WOULD GO TO WE TRIED TO GET IN AND SEE IF THERE WERE ANY SURVIVORS AND WE FOUND
THAT THERE WERE QUITE FEW BUILDINGS WHERE PEOPLE WERE HIDING IN THE BASEMENTS WE ASKED THEM IF THEY HAD WATER OR ACCESS TO WATER
ME AND ALEX WE GOT BIG PIPES THAT WE HAD USED THAT IF WE NEEDED TO BREAK INTO STORAGE TO GET
WATER OR FOOD OR AT LEAST HAVE ACCESS TO SO THEY COULD GET TO IT BECAUSE AT THIS POINT WHERE WE ARE AT IT
WAS SUCH DESTRUCTION AND WHAT WE EXPERIENCED WAS SO HORRIFIC WE DIDNT KNOW THAT WE WERE AT WAR AND IT WAS
MORE PROLIFIC WE CERTAINLY WERE ACTING IN WAY THAT THINK WAS SOUND AND ALEX LED US IN THAT RESPECT
BECAUSE WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SURVIVORS KNOW HAD WATER AND SO FORTH AND SO ON
THATS WHAT DID FR BUILDING BUILDING GOING ALL THE WAY DOWN JOHN STREET AS WE WENT DOWN JOHN STREET AT SOME POINT WE REACHED WATER
20
YOU

LOUTSKY
STREET AT WATER STREET THINGS STARTED TO LOOK LESS HORRIFIC AND THERE WAS MORE PEOPLE YOU KNOW EMERGENCY
PERSONNEL AND THERE WAS CHIEF VLICHARZ HE IS
BATTALION CHIEF AT ENGINE
AREA WHERE CHARLEY IS HE SAID TO ME
ON DUANE AND BROADWAY OUR FROM
HE KNEWME AND HE SAID TO ME
THAT SHOULD GO RIGHT AWAY TO ENGINE WHICH IS ON SOUTH STREET AND OLD SLIP THATS ABOUT OR BLOCKS FROM WHERE MET HIM AND TO GO REGISTER THERE BECAUSE IM MISSING AND PRESUMED DEAD HE SAID GO OVER THERE AND REQISTER THERE SO THEY KNOW THAT YOU ARE ALL
RIGHT OKAY
THEN HE AFTER THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO GO
WITH FIREFIGHTER AND WE WERE SUPPOSED TO GO BACK TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AND HELP GET PEOPLE OUT OF
THERE YOU KNOW SO WENT TO THE FIRE HOUSE MY RADIO WASNT WORKING ALL THIS TIME BY THE WAY SO WENT TO
THE FIRE HOUSE REGISTERED OVER THERE IN THE LOGBOOK AND THE CAPTAIN IS THERE AND HE ASKED MY NAME VERBALLY
AGAIN AND SO FORTH OKAY DONT WORRY ABOUT IT HE SAYS OKAY NOW GO BACK TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AND
SO WASNT ENTIRELY SURE WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO DO BECAUSE DIDNT KNOW DIDNT SEE ANYBODY
21

LOUTSKY
FROM MY UNIT DIDNT SEE ANYBODY THAT WAS
CHIEF VLICHARZ DIDNT KNOW WHERE EVERYBODY ELSE
WAS IT
DIRECTION
AND
TIME IT WAS TOO CRAZY AT THE TIME AND EVERYBODY WAS ABSORBED IN THEIR DUTIES WHICH IS UNDERSTANDABLE
JUST SEEMED NATURAL THING WAS TO JUST FOLLOW
FROM THE FIRE
THEY COULDNT TELL ME WHERE EMS WAS AT THE
DEPARTMENT PERSONNEL YOU KNOW
SO STARTED SIGNING IN AND TALKING TO THE SAY THEN MY RADIO WAS WORKING HEARD
CAPTAIN AS
COMMAND CENTER AT THE FERRY TERMINAL WAS TALKING TO
SOMEONE ELSE IM TOUCHINQ THE RADIO YOU KNOW TRYINQ TO HEAR BETTER AND PUTTING IT LOUDER AND STUFF LIKE THAT SO TOLD THE CAPTAIN LISTEN IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY HAVE COMMAND CENTER AT SOUTH STREET FERRY TERMINAL WHICH IS NOT FAR THE CHIEF DIRECTED ME TO GO TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WITH HIM
IS IT ALL RIGHT IF IM RELIEVED OF THAT SO CAN GO AND SEEK OUT YOU KNOW MY COMMAND HE SAYS
YES GO AHEAD SO WENT AND WENT TO THE FERRY TERMINAL MET UP THERE WAS COUPLE OF CHIEFS OUT THERE THEY JUST TOLD ME TO DIRECT TO HELP DIRECT CIVILIANS THAT VACUAT AT THIS
BELIEVE THE CITY WAS MAYOR HAD MADE DIRECTIVE TO THAT EFFECT BELIEVE
22
SAW

JUST
AND COME BACK IN THE MORNING
LOUTSKY
WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO DO IS DIRECT THEM TO SO WAS DIRECTING THEM INTO VARIOUS FERRIES THEY
HAD FERRIES GOING TO BROOKLYN THEY HAD FERRIES GOING
TO STATEN ISLAND FERRIES GOING TO NEW JERSEY AND SO FORTH AND WAS HELPING DIRECT THEM DID THAT FOR NUMBER OF HOURS JUST GETTING THEM YOU KNOW WHERE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE GOING SO ASSISTED IN THAT
AFTER HOURS OF DOING THAT IT BECAME NIGHT
FALL AND WAS UPSTAIRS HELPING THEM IN THE TRIAGE AREA THEN GUESS AFTER WAS ALMOST THERE FOR 16
HOURS THEN THERE REALLY WASNT ANYBODY LEFT IN TERMS OF VICTIMS IT JUST SEEMED LIKE AT THAT POINT WE WERE SAYING THAT WELL IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE EITHER DEAD OR YOU ARE WALKING WOUNDED KIND OF THING SO WAS TOLD
BY
THAT SINCE LIVE IN STATEN ISLAND
SUPERVISOR
BOAT RIDE AWAY JUST GO HOME REFRESH YOURSELF
THATS WHAT DID WENT HOME AFTER 16 HOURS TRIED TO SLEEP COULDNT SLEEP ACTUALLY CAME BACK HOURS LATER BECAUSE WAS VERY
HYPERSENSITIVE TO SOUNDS
23

TIME
LOUTSKY
24
THEY DISSIPATED OVER
BASICALLY THATS THE STORY
DO YOU REMEMBER WHERE WHEN YOU SAW THE
FIRST PLANE GO IN DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT STREETS YOU WERE ON WHEN YOU SAW
YES SAW EXACTLY WHERE WAS IN MY MIND BUT IM TRYING TO TELL YOU THE NAME OF IT IT IS
OFF THE MAP
YES ITS RIQHT IN THIS WHITE AREA BUT
WILL TELL YOU IT WAS CITY HALL PARK LIKE RIGHT AROUND
WOULD CALL IT RIGHT BY THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE AND PEARL STREET
OKAY
RIGHT AROUND THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE AND PEARL STREET YOU GOT VIEW OF IT ITS LIKE RIGHT IN
FRONT OF YOU IM SITTING AT THE LIGHT AND HE IS
TALKING TO ME AND IM SAYING RIGHT RIGHT WO LOOK AT THAT ITS GOING TO HIT ITS GOING TO HIT AND THATS
WHEN IT HIT
WH FIRST CAM INT FULT AND CHURCH
COMING DOWN FULTON FROM DOWN CHURCH
NO CAME WHAT DID WAS LETS SEE

REALLY
LOUTSKY
PEARL WENT DOWN SORRY WENT DOWN BY THE BROOKLYN WHERE IS THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE HERE
BROOKLYN BRIDGE WOULD BE UP ABOUT HERE
LETS SEE THIS IS THE TOP EDGE
AT ANY RATE WILL JUST SAY THIS CAME FROM FULTON STREET WENT FROM FULTON STREET FROM
WHERE THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE WOULD BE HERE WENT DOWN LIKE THIS AND WENT DOWN LIKE THAT THATS HOW DID
IT
THATS WESTBOUND ON FULTON RIGHT
ALL
IS THIS WESTBOUND YES YOU ARE RIGHT
FORGIVE ME YES THIS IS WESTBOUND
PUT NUMBER THERE THIS IS YOUR FIRST STOP RIGHT WAS ACTUALLY PARKED RIGHT INSIDE
HERE
INSIDE OF FULTON STREET
RIGHT OVER HERE WE WERE PARKED RIGHT HERE THEN WE MOVED IT OVER HERE
RIGHT
WH AR WORLD TRADE CENTER IT WAS YOU
WAS YOU SAID ADAM
FR
PIGHT
IN
BOY THINK IT
25

LOUTSKY
NO BOY CAME HERE
DID THEY FOLLOW YOU AROUND TO
DONT RECALL DONT RECALL SUSPECT BUT CANT SAY FOR SURE KIND OF WAS LIKE WE
WERE VERY CLOSE TO THE LIEUTENANT AT THAT POINT AND THINK MOST OF THE DONT RECALL SEEING THEM BUT
DONT RECALL
NO PROBLEM WHEN YOU CAME AROUND TO WEST
SIDE HIGHWAY DO YOU RECALL ASIDE FROM THE LIEUTENANT ANY OTHER EMS UNITS THERE
WELL YES THERE WAS COUPLE OF PARAMEDIC UNITS THAT CAME FROM HOSPITAL VOLLIES RECALL COUPLE OF FIRE DEPARTMENT UNITS THERE DONT REMEMBER THEIR DESIGNATIONS THERE WAS LIEUTENANT DAVILA AND THERE WAS CHIEF THAT CAME AND THERE WAS SOME LIEUTENANTS CHIEF OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT THERE YOU KNOW THAT CAME THAT WERE IN THAT AREA WITH US WE HAD OUR PATIENTS RIGHT OVER HERE HERE
RIGHT
WE WERE SITTING DOWN LIKE OVER HERE YOU
DONT SEE IT IN THIS PICTURE BUT OVER HERE THERE IS LIK BIG WALL THAT FR TRAD
YOU KNOW
RIGHT
SORRY
26

LIKE THAT YES
LOUTSKY
IT WAS VERY PROTECTED BECAUSE IT WAS LIKE AN
OVERHANG SO NOTHING COULD AFFECT ANYBODY FROM THAT FROM THAT YOU KNOW FROM THAT NO ONE THOUGHT
THE BUILDING WAS GOING TO COME DOWN THATS THE WHOLE
THING THATS WHEN IT CAUGHT EVERYBODY IN SURPRISE IVE HEARD PEOPLE ARGUE ALL DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE WHAT
WE COULD HAVE DONE
LIKE THINK WE DID VERY WELL IN TERMS OF
WHAT WE WERE TRAINED TO DO THINK IT WORKED VERY WELL WITH WHAT OUR EXPECTATIONS WERE BECAUSE IF WE
KNEW THE BUILDING WAS GOING TO COLLAPSE YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE QUARTER MILE AWAY FROM THAT PLACE BECAUSE THAT
BUILDING WAS GOING ABOUT QUARTER MILE HIGH SO HOW FAR COULD YOU HAVE BEEN YOU STILL WOULD HAVE BEEN IN DANGER YOU KNOW SO AND ITS PART OF OUR JOB WE DONT WANT TO BE INJURED OR KILLED BECAUSE WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO ASSIST PEOPLE BUT WE ARE IN THE WARM ZONE AND THERE IS CERTAIN RISK INVOLVED THATS PART OF THE JOB
BUT THINK THAT ACT WITH DU IN SOBER FASHION IM VERY HAPPY THERE IS LOT TO
LEARN IM SURE AND YOU GUYS ARE PROBABLY GOING TO
27

LOUTSKY
BRING THAT OUT BUT THINK THAT EVERYTHING IM GLAD THAT LIEUTENANT DAVILA WAS THERE AND THE OTHERS THAT LED US IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION YOU KNOW SO THATS IT
MR RADENBERG OKAY THANK YOU VERY MUCH TIME IS NOW 0711 HOURS THE INTERVIEW IS
CONCLUDED
28
File No. 9110152
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        EMS CHIEF RANDALL HIRTH
   Interview Date:  October 24, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
R. HIRTH
2
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today is October 24th, 2001.
I'm Paul Radenberg of the Fire Department of the City
of New York.  The time is now 0820 hours and I am
conducting an interview with Chief Hirth, Commander,
Division 1, EMS, Borough of Manhattan.  This interview
is being conducted at the Division 1 office.
Q. Chief?
     A.   All right.  We were at the Academy in
refresher and the page came over that there was a
problem at the World Trade Center.  Lieutenant Cacciola
was with me and I told her that we really need to
respond.  We got into the car.  Lieutenant Roger Moore
came out and requested transportation to go with us, so
he jumped in the car with us and we proceeded to
respond.  We notified Citywide and proceeded to respond
to the World Trade Center.
          En route there we could see that -- while we
were en route a second plane hit the building, but we
didn't see that, but we heard it over the radio.  But
we saw both towers burning.  We came down through the
Midtown Tunnel down to the FDR Drive and around to the
Brooklyn Battery Tunnel.  When I got to the Brooklyn
Battery Tunnel, I decided that we should leave the car
there and walk in the rest of the way.  I didn't want
R. HIRTH
3
to block other emergency vehicles, particular fire
trucks and everything else.  So I left my car at
Brooklyn Battery Tunnel and proceeded to walk to the
World Trade Center down the West Side Highway.
          As soon as we got out of the car and we took
our first few steps, we noticed the body parts in the
street and I believe that's what we realized that this
was going to be ugly.  We proceeded to walk down the
West Side Highway and we were trying to locate the
command post, which was opposite the Trade Centers and
in front of the World Financial Center.
          We walked up to the command post.  That's
where we left Lieutenant Roger Moore, at the command
post, and Chief Kowalczyk requested that I respond to
the north side of the second tower because they were
having a lot of problems there and he asked if I could
take command of that area over there.  I agreed to do
that and Lieutenant Cacciola was going with me and she
suggested that we make our way, instead of down the
West Side Highway, over to the Trade 7 tower because
there was stuff coming off the building, debris and
some people were still jumping at that point.  So we
decided to go through the World Financial building,
down the corridor, come out the other side and be on
R. HIRTH
4
the north side of the tower.
          En route through there, she also suggested
that we call our family members, make a quick phone
call so they knew that we were safe, and I thought that
was a good idea being that this was going to be an
extended operation.  So halfway through the corridor we
stopped where there was a phone there and I called my
wife and told her that she was going to see this on the
news but not to worry, that I was safe, and I got off
the phone.  It was a quick conversation.  I didn't have
time to talk to her.  Then she proceeded to call her
mother and her sister.
          While she was telling her sister that she was
safe, what I perceived to be the building started
rumbling, the one we were in, and it was my impression
that a third plane hit the building we were in.  I had
no idea that the first tower was collapsing, which we
couldn't see at that point.  But we looked down the
hall from where we came and we saw the building
starting to come down, and it was actually the roof of
that building, but we thought the whole building was
coming down.
          She dropped the phone and we proceeded to run
to go out through the corridor into the Winter Garden
R. HIRTH
5
and try and run out the back way that way, out through
the Winter Garden, but when we got down at the end of
the hall and into the beginning of the Winter Garden,
we saw the whole roof of the Winter Garden coming down
and we knew that we couldn't make that an escape
route.  So we turned around and headed back into the
corridor, and that's when it looked like a tidal wave
of smoke was coming down the hall and it was just about
to engulf us.
          So it was my impression at that point that
the whole building was going down, that a third plane
hit the building, and that we were probably going to be
dead at that point.  So I just yelled to her to dive
into the corner of the hall, that possibly we could
have some protection, and she dove into one area and I
dove into another area.  The rumbling, the building was
rumbling, and we thought the whole building was coming
down, people were screaming in the hall, the smoke
engulfed us, we couldn't see, and there was just a loud
rumble, a jet rumbling, alarms started going off and we
actually thought we were going to die at that point.
          I don't know the time frame, how long that
was going on for, but at one point everything went
silent except for the alarm, a very, very loud alarm in
R. HIRTH
6
that building.  Then we realized that the part we were
in didn't collapse and then I got up and I had no idea
where Lieutenant Cacciola was and I started to head
back into the collapse here a little bit to see if I
could find her, and that's when she yelled that she was
behind me and she kept yelling and then I went back and
through her voice I found her.
          Then I knew we had to get out of there
because either it was going to collapse some more or
the smoke was going to kill us.  So we started to try
and figure out a way to get out back this way somehow,
through the Winter Garden again, and people were coming
by us, they were running hysterical, and someone came
by with a flashlight and pointed to go in some
direction, and we just kept going in that direction
until we saw an opening and then we just climbed
through some rubble and wound up outside.
          At the point we got outside, I met up with a
bunch of EMTs and a lot of people were injured outside,
and it was still my impression at that point we were
still under attack and a third plane hit our building.
I still wasn't aware because when we got outside the
whole area was covered with white smoke, thick white
smoke that you couldn't see more than five feet in
R. HIRTH
7
front of you, if that much.  I directed a bunch of EMTs
to help whoever they could and leave the area and go
where it's safe, and I had no idea where that was at
that point because I was turned upside-down.  I told
them, I said, wherever they thought was safe, that's
where they needed to go, and try and get these people
out of here and that was it.  I said they couldn't help
anyone else at that point, they had to save themselves
and just get whoever could out of there and that was
all we could do at that point.
          So they started to go and we started to get a
few of the injured people up that were laying there.
We were telling them they had to get up, even though
they're injured, they couldn't stay, that we would have
people to help move them and they had to just help
themselves and, if they laid there, they probably were
going to get killed.  So most of them got up and
started walking even though they were bleeding and
whatever their injuries were, and we pointed the
direction which way they should go.  There was too many
of them for us to treat by ourselves, plus we didn't
have equipment at that point.  So they left and kept
going.
     Q.   You were sending them north on the West Side
R. HIRTH
8
Highway?
     A.   North.  We were telling them to go north
because we knew we were on this side, the north side of
the tower and you couldn't go south.  So we were
sending them north and figured somewhere they would
meet up with responding units coming in and they would
receive aid and help.  We were going the same way
because we had to get out of the smoke because we still
couldn't breathe, and I guess we turned, and I'm not
positive of this, but maybe on Vesey Street and made
our way down to North Avenue.  Somewhere in that
vicinity we saw a trailer, a parks restoration trailer,
that's what I remember reading on the sign, and we saw
people in there.
          So we knocked on that door and they opened
the door and let us in, and there was no smoke in
there, so we were able to breathe a little again and
they let us wash up, they gave us some water, they let
us use the facilities, and then we tried to make some
phone calls from there to see if we could get Citywide
or whoever, but none of those calls were going
through.  Then we were able to get through to -- I was
able to call my wife again, but for whatever reason, it
wasn't letting calls go into Brooklyn.  So on those
R. HIRTH
9
calls, I don't know why, but I was able to call my wife
and no one else.
          Then someone knocked on that door of the
trailer and said the second building was going to
collapse and it was probably going to collapse onto
this trailer and you had to get out of here or you were
going to die.  So we came back out and there were
scores of people still running north and we just got in
with them and we started running with them.  I guess we
were going north on North Avenue and probably on Murray
Street, instead of following the crowd north on North
Avenue -- and I'm not positive but I think we turned on
Murray and we went down to the driving path or
whatever, the walkway on River Terrace, and that's
where we watched that whole building collapse and we
realized at that point that both towers were down and
we thought we were still under attack at that point.
          There was a large group of people with us and
we started going north again on River Avenue until we
came up to the school, and after the school is the West
Side Highway to turn and go north again.  But what
happened at the school was there was a major gas leak
coming out of there and PD came to us and said that
this building was going to blow up and we had to get
R. HIRTH
10
everybody out of here, and at that point the school
itself started filing out.  So you had the large crowd
from the North Terrace and then you had all the school
emptying out.
          So rather than keep going, we decided to help
PD, because there was only a few of them, to try and
get the school and these people out.  At some point
across the street there was some gunfire and the people
started running back towards us and we knew they
couldn't go back that way, so we formed a wall on North
Terrace and we were getting almost stampeded but trying
to turn these people around to make them go back to
West Street, West Side Highway, and go that way.  When
we finally accomplished that, myself, Grace and the
police officers doing this, we were pretty confident
that that building was going to blow and we probably
were going to get killed at that point again, and it
was hard to rationalize that we were going to stand
there and wait to get blown up because people didn't
want to listen.
          But we did that and we finally got everybody
turned around and the building didn't blow, and then we
went out to West Street and then we made our way up to
a little further up West Street, and that's where we
R. HIRTH
11
turned out of the crowd and went into a golf course
where there was a -- next to the golf course there was
a ferry dock.
          Do you want me to continue on that?
     Q.   Sure.
     A.   We were at the golf course.  We tried to get
our bearings together.  I'm pretty sure both of us were
pretty much in shock at that point and we tried to
figure out what was going on.  Then we left the golf
course and we worked our way a little bit further west
to where the ferry was and we directed people in how to
get on the ferry or where the one ferry was docking, to
get on and just go wherever it's going and get out of
here because some people were a little hesitant.  One
woman wanted to go back to the Trade Center because she
left something in the building and we tried to tell her
it wasn't a good idea.  We watched people get on the
ferry, helped them on the ferries, and then we went
into the shop where the guy that supposedly runs the
ferry was there and he let us wash up and have a
drink.  I don't know how long we stayed in there, and
that's when we decided do we keep going north or do we
go back?  We finally decided that we had to go back.
          We came out of that shack, we went back to
R. HIRTH
12
the towers, as close as we could get, and at that point
we realized that there was no one there, that anybody
that was there was probably dead.  There was no one.
No one injured, there was no injuries, there was just
devastation.  There was nobody to help at that point.
So we then left the Trade Center again.
          This whole time we were out of radio contact
with anybody.  The radios didn't work, the phones
didn't work.  So we had no communications.  We had no
idea what plans were being made.  So we decided to head
north again on the West Side Highway, and at some point
we met up with Captain Stone and Richie Zarrillo.  Once
we met with them, they had a little more information
than we had, that there was a staging area set up at
Chelsea Piers, which I guess was another two miles down
the road, but at that point, I don't know how many
hours we were there at that point, but we were in no
shape to walk to the Chelsea Piers.
          So we got a police van to turn around and
take us.  We lucked out because they were under a
different direction, but I kind of like commandeered
them and they took us to the Chelsea Piers.  Again we
refreshed ourselves, tried to get our thoughts together
and tried to find out exactly what happened.
13
                     R. HIRTH
          Do you want me to continue with the whole
thing?
     Q.   That's good.
     A.   Cut off there?
     Q.   Yes.  That covers the period that we're
looking at.
     A.   That's it.
     Q.   Okay.  Any thoughts or opinions?
     A.   Thoughts or opinions.  Well, my thoughts are
that, which has been since this happened, that both
myself and Lieutenant Cacciola along with probably a
lot of other people will have a lot of trouble sleeping
and stuff, but my thoughts and opinions are that we
felt that we were very helpless back at the scene, a
building the size of the World Trade Center falling
down and you can't do nothing at that point but run,
and it was very frustrating that there was no one else
after the buildings went down that needed help.
Everybody was gone and that was very frustrating.
          I don't know.  That's it.  We were convinced
three different occasions inside of probably a two-hour
period that we were going to die, once from the first
building that we were in, then when the second
collapse, then the gas leak.  So it's a hard thing to
R. HIRTH
14
try and do your job and kind of be pretty sure that you
were not going to survive.  I guess that really messed
us up and knowing that we lost everybody that we lost
in the Trade Center that we know that didn't come out
and we know that they were in there and it was very
frustrating that they were in there and there was
nothing we could do about it.
          I guess there's nothing else to say.  It's
just that we were very frustrated that we couldn't do
more than we did.  I guess we were just happy to be
alive, but it was a very frustrating experience.
          MR. RADENBERG:  Okay.  Thank you, chief.  The
time is now 0836.  The interview is concluded.

FILE NO 9110153
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW LIEUTENANT GRACE CACCIOLA INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 24 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

CACCIOLA
MR RADENBERG TODAY IS OCTOBER 24 2001
THE TIME IS NOW 0727 HOURS IM PAUL RADENBERG OF
THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH
GRACE CACCIOLA LIEUTENANT DIVISION
THIS INTERVIEW IS BEING CONDUCTED AT THE
DIVISION OFFICE AND IS REGARDING THE EVENTS OF THE
MORNING OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001
WAS AT THE BUREAU TRAINING WAS IN
REFRESHER WE WERE ON BREAK WHEN CHIEF HIRTH CAME IN TU RLLE DI DPPLUXIRLLDTELY 850 BETWEEN 850 DND 855 HE SAID HE WAS JUST PAGED THAT PLANE HAD HIT THE TOWERS OR ONE OF THE TOWERS WE ASSUMED IT WAS SMALL PLANE HOWEVER WE DID THINK THERE WERE GOING TO BE NUMEROUS PATIENTS ONLY BECAUSE OF THE TIME OF THE MORNING AND THE USUAL RUSH HOUR TRAFFIC HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO CALL RCC AND CITYWIDE TO GET DETAILS BECAUSE WE MAY BE LEAVING BEING THAT HE WAS THAT DIVISION COMMANDER WE MAY BE LEAVING TO GO HELP OUT IN MANHATTAN TO GET MY STUFF READY
WE WENT AND MADE THE PHONE CALLS WENT TO
THE CAR PUT EVERYTHING IN THE CAR PD SOD WAS
CHAOTIC CITYWIDE WAS STARTING WITH GET VERY BUSY WITH AIR TRAFFIC WE GOT IN THE CAR WE CALLED CITYWIDE AND

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SAID THEY DIDNT NEED HIS RESPONSE AS OF YET BUT TO STAND BY TWO SECONDS LATER HE SAID YOU KNOW WHAT ITS MY BOROUGH WE WILL GO IN
AS WE ARE DRIVING OUT THE SECOND TOWER WAS HIT WE REALIZED AT THAT POINT THIS WAS NO LITTLE ACCIDENT GOT INTO MANHATTAN WOULD SAY ACTUALLY
DIDNT LOOK AT THE HISTORY 15 MINUTES WE PARKED BY ACTUALLY ROGER MOORE WAS IN THE CAR WITH US ALSO
HE CAME WITH US HE WAS IN REFRESHER WITH US IT WAS SO IT WAS CHIEF HIRTH AND MYSELF AND LIEUTENANT ROGER
MUUIE WE PDIKED BY THE RLLUUTH UF THE BIUUKLYN BDTTELY TUNNEL WE GOT OUT OF THE CAR FIRST THING WE SAW WAS
SEVERED TORSO LIKE 10 FEET IN FRONT OF US THERE
WAS COP GUARDING THE TORSO
AS WE WERE WALKING UP TO THE COMMAND POST
PEOPLE WERE STILL JUMPING OUT OF THE TOWERS THERE WERE BODY PARTS AND FRAGMENTS AND BLOOD ALL OVER THE PLACE MASS CHAOS BOTH TOWERS WERE STILL STANDING AT THIS POINT WE WENT OVER TO THE COMMAND POST AND AT
THE COMMAND POST WE SAW CHIEF GOMBO CHIEF KOWALCZYK EMT RICHIE ZARRILLO LIEUTENANT ROSS TERRANOVA CHIEF GANCI CHIEF SAL CASSANO AND THEN ALL AIDES
CHAUFFEURS AND WHAT HAVE YOU FROM THE FIRE SIDE
CHIEF GOMBO ASKED CHIEF HIRTH TO RESPOND TO

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THE NORTH SIDE OF THE NORTH TOWER THEY WERE GETTING
NUMEROUS CALLS FOR NUMEROUS PATIENTS ON THAT SIDE WE SAID OKAY WE WERE GOING WE TOLD THEM WE WOULD LEAVE ROGER MOORE WITH THEM AT THE COMMAND POST BECAUSE ROGER HAS PROBLEMS WALKING WITH HIS KNEES SO WE LEFT ROGER MOORE AT THE COMMAND POST
AS WE ARE WALKING DEBRIS AND PEOPLE WERE STILL COMING OUT OF THE TOWERS SO WE WERE HUGGING THE
WALL ON WEST STREET BUT ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE
TOWERS SO WE GOT BELIEVE
PLCTZCT WDS VELY CUNFUSED
PLAZA WHEN LOOK AT THIS
CELL PHONE HAD GONE OFF MY FAMILY WAS FRANTIC WHETHER WE WERE ALL RIGHT HE SAID HOW ABOUT WE CUT THROUGH
THE BUILDING SAID REALLY FAST JUST LET ME CALL HOME AND TELL THEM IM ALL RIGHT BECAUSE MY CELL PHONE WASNT WORKING HE SAID ALL RIGHT THATS GOOD
IDEA THIS WAY WE WERE AWAY FROM THE DEBRIS WE CAN COME OUT OF FINANCIAL PLAZA UP BY VESEY STREET HE SAYS IT WILL ACTUALLY BE SAFER SO WE ARENT IN ANY DEBRIS
WAY
WE WALK IN CHIEF HIRTH CALLED HIS WIFE
TOLD HER WE ARE HERE ITS CHAOS BUT WE ARE SAFE DONT WORRY ABOUT IT THEN HE HANDED ME
REALLY QUICKLY
IT WAS FINANCIAL
IT HDS TU BE FINDNCIDL
SAID TO CHIEF HIRTH
MY

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THE PHONE AND CALLED MY SISTER AS WAS ON THE PHONE WITH MY SISTER WE HEARD THE RUMBLE SCREAMED
OH MY GOD AND MY SISTER THOUGHT WAS DEAD BECAUSE SHE HEARD THE RUMBLE AND THE WHITE CLOUD AS THE
BUILDING CAME DOWN COLLAPSED INTO AGAIN FINANCIAL PLAZA WE WERE CHASED WITH THE WHITE CLOUD
WE STARTED RUNNING AND WE HAD TO STOP AT ONE BECAUSE NOW THE WHOLE AREA FILLED WITH BLACK
POINT
SMOKE AND THE WINTER GARDEN ATRIUM COLLAPSED IN FRONT
OF US BECAUSE WE WERE GOING TO GO INTO THE WINTER
GDIDEN TU CUT UUTSIDE BUT WE CUULDNT DU IT BEODUSE WE HAD THE COLLAPSE OF THE FRONT OF FINANCIAL PLAZA INTO US AND THEN THE ATRIUM COMING AT US FROM THE OTHER
SIDE
WE HIT THE GROUND WE JUST WAITED IN FACT IM NOT SURE WE HAD COUPLE OF COPS WITH US WE HAD COUPLE OF FIREMEN THERE WAS FEMALE SECURITY GUARD
FROM THE BUILDING AND SOMEONE FROM MAINTENANCE MALE FROM MAINTENANCE IN THE BUILDING SOMEBODY
SCREAMED WE ARE JUST GOING TO DIE HERE EVERYBODY JUST GET ON THE FLOOR WE GOT ON THE FLOOR AND IT WAS PITCH
BLACK AND BELIEVE IT WAS CHIEF HIRTH SAID WE CANT STAY HERE THEN ONE OF THE FIREFIGHTERS SCREAMED WE ARE GOING TO SUFFOCATE WE NEED TO MOVE NOW

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SO WE ALL HELD HANDS AND WE WERE CLIMBING
OVER THE DEBRIS AND IM NOT SURE THINK ONE OF THEM HAD TO HAVE LITTLE FLASHLIGHT BECAUSE WE REALLY COULDNT SEE WHERE WE WERE WALKING THEN THE JANITOR HAD SAID THINK THE BACK IS THIS WAY IF WE WALK THIS WAY WE WILL FIND THE BACK SOMEWHERE
SO WE WALKED AND AGAIN TIME LINE IS SO
HARD YOU DONT KNOW IF IT WAS MINUTES BECAUSE WHEN
WE GOT UP YOU ACTUALLY DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS UP WHAT WAS DOWN IF YOU WERE ACTUALLY ON THE FLOOR ON THE WDLL WE FINDLLY SDW LIGHT THDT LED US UUTSIDE FLCE OUTSIDE WE STARTED TREATING PEOPLE BECAUSE THERE WERE PEOPLE HURT ALL OVER THE PLACE COVERED IN THE WHITE DUST COUGHING CUTS SO WE STARTED HELPING OUT PEOPLE THERE
PD STARTED SCREAMING AT US WE NEED TO MOVE FROM HERE WE NEED TO MOVE SO WE STARTED FUNNELING
PEOPLE WITH US THAT WERE HURT THERE WAS LITTLE
TRAILER THAT THEY WERE USING TO FIX THE PARK YOU KNOW THEY ARE FIXING THAT WHOLE AREA THAT PARK
RIGHT
THIS WAS ONE OF THEIR FACILITIES WHERE
THEIR ADMINISTRATIVE TRAILER SO FIRST THEY LOCKED THE DOOR ON US AND PD ORDERED THEM TO OPEN THE DOOR WE

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GOT INSIDE THE PEOPLE IN THERE STARTED CLEANING US OFF AND HELPING US ONE OF THEIR WORKERS CAME IN TOTALLY COVERED IN WHITE SOOT WE TOOK CARE OF HIM WHEN AGAIN THINK IT WAS PD CAME SCREAMING WE NEED TO MOVE FROM HERE THERE IS THREAT OF GAS LINE LEAK THINK THEY SAID AT THAT POINT
SO WE STARTED MOVING FROM THERE WE STARTED FUNNELING PEOPLE WITH US THAT WERE HURT WE STILL HAD ALL THE INJURED WITH US TOWER TWO COLLAPSED
EVERYONE STARTED RUNNING AGAIN WE STARTED HDVING PEUPLE GU TUWDID BDTTELY PDIK YUU KNUW THE
PIER RIGHT DOWN THERE BY THE FERRY WE TOLD EVERYBODY TO START GOING THERE SO WE ARE FUNNELING PEOPLE TO RUN IN THAT DIRECTION
WHEN WE GOT TO STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL PD IS
NOW SCREAMING CONFIRMED GAS LEAK THEY WERE LETTING THE KIDS OUT OF SCHOOL KIDS WERE ALL FRANTIC WE
HELPED THEM EVACUATE THE SCHOOL AGAIN WE WERE FUNNELING THEM ON TO WEST STREET GOING NORTH THEN THERE WAS GUN SHOT ACROSS THE STREET AND SUPPOSEDLY THIS IS JUST WHAT WE WERE HEARING OVER THE PD RADIO SOMEBODY HAD SHOT OUT ONE OF THE WINDOWS AND THINK IT WAS MANHATTAN BOROUGH COMMUNITY IS THAT WHAT IS DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET IM SO BAD ANOTHER

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SCHOOL ACROSS DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET THEY HAD SHOT OUT ONE OF THE WINDOWS TO OPEN THE DOOR TO PUT
PEOPLE INTO THERE SO WHEN THE KIDS HEARD THE GUN
SHOT EVERYBODY STARTED STAMPEDING BACK TOWARDS US SO WE HAD TO CALM THEM DOWN AND GET THEM TO START GOING
NORTH AGAIN
WE GOT THEM GOING NORTH ONCE THEY WERE
EVACUATED WE WENT BACK TO THE PIER AND STARTED PUTTING PEOPLE ON PRIVATE FERRIES FERRIES WERE COMING IN AND IN FACT THERE WAS LITTLE SHED THERE WITH ONE OF THE
FEIIY PEUPLE DND WE DSKED HIRLL TU STDLT CDLLING WHUEVEI HE COULD ON THE PHONE TO GET MORE FERRIES HERE HE SAID HE HAS BEEN TRYING TO DO THAT BUT NO ONE IS ANSWERING THE PHONE UP NORTH WE SAID YOU HAVE TO DO WHATEVER YOU CAN GET ON THE RADIO WE NEED MORE FERRIES
FERRIES STARTED COMING IN AGAIN WE STARTED
FUNNELING PEOPLE ON TO THE FERRIES TELLING THEM TO GO INTO JERSEY CITY WE MET LOT OF RESISTANCE LOT OF PEOPLE DIDNT WANT TO LEAVE MANHATTAN THATS LIKE WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO TAKE US WE WERE LIKE DOES IT MATTER YOU REALLY NEED TO GET OUT OF HERE RIGHT NOW
EVERYONE LEFT ON FERRIES THEN WE FINALLY STARTED TO HEAR RADIO COMMUNICATIONS AGAIN BECAUSE WE

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HAD NO RADIO COMMUNICATIONS THAT WHOLE TIME WE MET UP WHILE WE WERE WALKING WE MET UP WITH RICHIE
ZARRILLO AGAIN AND HE SAYS THEY WANT EVERYBODY TO GO TO THE CHELSEA PIERS SO WE STARTED WALKING TOWARDS THE CHELSEA PIERS AND THEN WE MET UP WITH CAPTAIN STONE AND EMT GREGG BRADY AND THINK AT ONE POINT IT WAS COMMISSIONER GRIBBON
GRIBBON
COMMISSIONER GRIBBON YES WE STARTED WALKING TOWARDS THE CHELSEA PIERS CAPTAIN STONE WAS CURLLPLDIFLIFLG HE HDD TIUUBLE BLEDTHING DT THIS TIRLLE DFLD
SHOULDER PAIN SO WHEN WE MADE IT UP TO THE PIER WE HAD
ASKED THAT HE BE TRANSPORTED TO THE HOSPITAL SO THEY GAVE US COMMAND CAR WE ACTUALLY TOOK HIM TO THE
HOSPITAL DROPPED HIM OFF AT BELLEVUE AND WENT BACK TO THE SITE
WHEN WE WENT BACK TO THE SITE WE ACTUALLY WENT BACK TO GROUND ZERO CHIEF MCCRACKEN WAS THERE
AND SAW CHIEF PERUGGIA AND THEY WERE TRYING TO FORMULATE PLAN FOR THE ON GOING EVENTS OF THAT NIGHT
INTO THE FOLLOWING MORNING
THEY HAD ASKED US NOW IT WAS LIKE MAYBE
PM AT THIS POINT OR PM HE HAD SAID HE NEEDED US TO PROBABLY GO HOME SO THIS WAY WE CAN BE BACK BY

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AM THE FOLLOWING MORNING WE SAID OKAY NOW IN ORDER TO WALK BACK WE HAD TO GO AROUND TO WHATS
THAT STREET IN BATTERY PARK CITY THE FIRST STREET SOUTH END
SOUTH END YES WE HAD TO GO AROUND TO SOUTH END AVENUE WHILE WE WERE WALKING THEY WERE REMOVING CHIEF GANCIS BODY LIEUTENANT SCULLION WAS THERE
AND WE STOOD WITH HIM AS THEY WERE REMOVING CHIEF
GANCIS BODY THEY HAD JUST PUT HIM ON THE BUS AND NOW THEY WERE GOING TO GO REMOVE COMMISSIONER FEEHANS
BUDY THEY WDNTED HIRLL UN THE SDRLLE BUS
WE WALKED WITH THE BUS DROVE AROUND THE CORNER AND WE FOLLOWED THE BUS AROUND THE CORNER WHEN
WE GOT AROUND THE CORNER THEY SAID IT WAS GOING TO TAKE FEW MINUTES BECAUSE HE WAS STILL STUCK IN THE HOLE
SO THEY WERE TRYING TO GET HIM OUT FATHER DELENDIC WAS THERE CHIEF MCFARLAND AND BELIEVE CAPTAIN
PINEDA
SO WHILE WE WERE STANDING THERE ONE OF THE FIREFIGHTERS FROM SOC CAME OVER AND THOUGHT HE HAD SAID HE HAD BAG AND HE SAID
10

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THEN THINK HE SORT OF GOT LITTLE UPSET BY IT AND THEN JOHN MCFARLAND TOOK IT FROM HIM AND THEN HE
PLACED IT IN THE BUS IT WAS GOING TO BE PROLONGED TO GET COMMISSIONER FEEHAN OUT SO CHIEF HIRTH SAID YOU KNOW WHAT THEY TOLD US TO LEAVE WHY DONT WE GO BACK TO THE BATTALION TO MAKE SURE THE REST OF MANHATTAN IS RUNNING AND ALL THE UNITS ARE IN PLACE BECAUSE WE HAVE TO COME BACK EARLY IN THE MORNING
WE CDRLLE BDCK HEIC CHIEF HIITH SPUKE TU THE UNITS DOWNSTAIRS AND SPOKE TO THE UNITS AT BELLEVUE
MADE SURE EVERYBODY WAS ALL RIGHT AND ACCOUNTED FOR AT
THAT POINT THEN WE CAME BACK THE FOLLOWING MORNING AND WERE ASSIGNED TO THE FERRY TERMINAL
OKAY WHEN YOU PARKED AT THE MOUTH OF THE BATTERY THAT WAS THE MANHATTAN SIDE
THE MANHATTAN SIDE
HOW DID YOU COME UP TO THE COMMAND POST DO YOU REMEMBER KNOW YOU SAID YOU WALKED BUT DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT ROUTE YOU CAME
WE WERE ON ARE YOU CONSIDERING THIS NORTH AND SOUTH OR VICE VERSA
THIS IS NORTH
11

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EAST AND WEST SOUTH WEST
OKAY WE WERE ON THE EAST SIDE OF WEST STREET WHERE UP UNTIL WE WERE BY WE PASSED THE TORSO THAT WAS LIKE 10 FEET IN FRONT OF US DEBRIS WAS STILL FALLING AND ACTUALLY DEBRIS WAS
THAT FAR DOWN THATS WHEN CHIEF HIRTH SAID LETS GET AWAY FROM THAT SIDE OF THE STREET
AND WE CROSSED OVER AND THEN WE WERE ON WEST STREET ON THE WEST SIDE THE WHOLE TIME UP
KDY WHEIE WDS THE CURLMLLDFLD PUST
THE COMMAND POST WAS SET UP IN THE DRIVEWAY AGAIN BELIEVE OF WORLD FINANCIAL PLAZA WASNT IT SOMEWHERE ALONG HERE IM REALLY BAD WITH MAPS AND DIRECTIONS THATS WHY THEY DONT LET ME DRIVE
OKAY
THERE WAS LITTLE RAMP AND THATS WHERE THEY
HAD SET UP RIGHT IN FRONT
THEN AFTER THE COLLAPSES YOU CONTINUED UP WE STOPPED HERE AT THE COMMAND POST WE GOT
WHERE WE NEEDED TO GO WE CUT THROUGH HERE SO WE WOULDNT HAVE TO WALK ON WEST STREET THATS WHY WE WALKED FROM HERE WE WERE GOING TO COME RIGHT OUT HERE TO GO TO VESEY STREET WHILE WE WERE IN HERE IS WHEN
ACTUALLY REACHING
12

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THE FIRST COLLAPSE OCCURRED
OKAY
THEN WE CUT OUT THIS WAY AROUND THE BACK
AROUND THE BACK
THEN WE WENT THROUGH THE WINTER GARDEN AFTER IT HAD COLLAPSED BECAUSE WE HAD TO WAIT FOR ALL THE
GLASS TO FINISH COMING THROUGH THAT WAS THE ONLY WAY OUT FOR US WE ENDED UP OUTSIDE ON VESEY STREET AND
WEST BUT ACTUALLY ON VESEY HERE
THEN WE WDLKED BELIEVE IT HDD TU
BE NORTH END TO STUYVESANT BECAUSE THEN WE CAME UP AND
AROUND
DOWN
WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THE SECOND BUILDING CAME
RIGHT
WHEN THE SECOND BUILDING CAME DOWN WE WERE BELIEVE ON NORTH AND VESEY THEN WE WENT BACK TO
THATS WHEN WE WALKED TO STUYVESANT WE WERE STILL
FUNNELING THE PEOPLE NORTHBOUND BUT WE ACTUALLY STOPPED THEM AT STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL THEN WE WENT
BACK INTO BATTERY PARK BY THE PIERS ANY OPINIONS OR COMMENTS
NO THERE WAS NO WAY THERE IS NO WAY TO EVER CRITIQUE OR MONDAY MORNING QUARTERBACK WHAT
13

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HAPPENED THERE IS NO WAY FEEL PERSONALLY
FEEL ANY OF US COULD HAVE BEEN PREPARED FOR WHAT HAPPENED
ALL THE TRAINING IN THE WORLD MEAN WE COULD BE
GOING TO THE ACADEMY EVERY SINGLE DAY NOTHING COULD HAVE PREPARED US FOR WHAT HAPPENED
RIGHT OKAY HAVE TWO QUICK QUESTIONS ON NAMES YOU GAVE RICHARD ZARILLO
ASSIGNED
YES
HE IS AN EMT DO YOU KNOW WHERE HE IS
PEIDTIUNS
GREGG BRADY
SEPTEMBER 11 HE WAS ASSIGNED TO DIVISION
HE WAS CHIEFS AIDE CURRENTLY HE IS AT BATTALION
OKAY
MR RADENBERG OKAY THANKS AGAIN HAVE
GOOD DAY THE TIME IS NOW 0744 THE INTERVIEW IS CONCLUDED
14
File No. 9110154
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
  CHIEF OF THE DEPARTMENT DANIEL NIGRO
   Interview Date:  October 24, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
D. NIGRO
2
          ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY:  I'm Assistant
     Commissioner James Drury.  I'm present in Chief of
     the Department Daniel Nigro's office on October
     24, 2001.  It is 3:54 p.m.
          As I said, we are in the Chief of the
     Department's office on the 7th floor in
     headquarters.  I'm here to conduct an interview as
     part of the World Trade Center task force.
     Q.   Just for the record, would you identify
yourself?
     A.   Daniel Nigro, Chief of Department.
     Q.   Chief, at this time I'm going to direct your
attention to September 11 of the year 2001, and direct
your attention to the incident at the World Trade
Center and ask you when you first became aware that
there might be a problem at that location?
     A.   I was in my office at somewhere between 8:45
and 8:50 on Tuesday.  I heard Pete Ganci yell from his
office, which we are sitting in right now, look out
your window, a plane just hit the World Trade Center,
because the north tower is clearly visible from the
Chief of Operations office.  That's how it began for
me.
          At that point, Chief Ganci and I, along with
D. NIGRO
3
his executive officer Steve Mosiello, took the elevator
down to the C-1 level.  My aide for the day, Adam
Vilagos, took my car with two officers from Engine 91
to assist at the command post.
     Q.   Is he a fire fighter?
     A.   Fire fighter.  We responded there.  Our car
was right behind a car in which Donald Burns was
traveling.  He was the off going city wide tour
commander, and the Trade Center was clearly visible for
the whole ride, especially from the Brooklyn Bridge.
We took the Brooklyn Bridge.  At some point as we
approached Manhattan, Chief Ganci got on the radio as
we discussed what we were going to do when we got there
and transmitted a fifth alarm.
     Q.   For the record Chief, what does a fifth alarm
mean?
     A.   It was already a third alarm assignment,
which would be approximately 14 engines and maybe 8
ladder companies.  The fifth alarm would give us a
couple of additional chiefs, 8 additional engines and 6
additional truck companies.  We continued over the
Brooklyn Bridge, past City Hall, across Barclay
Street.  We could clearly see that people were actually
running forth from the scene and both Church and West
D. NIGRO
4
streets as we continued west and we parked our car
somewhere on approximately West and Vesey.  I believe
field com was in the process of setting up a command
post in the middle of West Street, where there was an
island that runs up the street, which we felt to be too
close to the building because of debris that was
already falling and had fallen in the street and we
moved the exterior command post across West Street to
the garage entrance in front of, I believe the address
would be 2 World Financial Center.
          At that point, also, on the scene, to my
knowledge, were Assistant Chief Burns, Assistant Chief
Barbara, Assistant Chief Cassano and Assistant Chief
Callan.  Chief Callan was placed in command of the
lobby command post of the north tower where the plane
had hit, and he left the exterior command post to go
into the lobby to join the first division that was
already there.
          At some point after our arrival and after we
had moved to the west side of West Street, I heard a
loud roar of a jet, looked up and saw the second plane
impact the south tower.  At that point it was clear to
me it was a terrorist attack.  Earlier I didn't know
what it was.  I assumed it was an accident.  I turned
D. NIGRO
5
around and saw the Mayor, with his large group,
including the Commissioner and I went back to speak
with him for a moment, regarding the fact that I
believe this to be a terrorist attack.  When I got back
to business at the command post, I noticed the Mayor
had left that area and that was the last I saw of him
until that night I suppose.
          Chief Ganci and myself directed Chief Burns
and Chief Barbara to the south tower, along with Chief
Ray Downey.  Ray took, I think all of the companies
that were assembled behind us at the command post to
the south tower to assist in the evacuation of that
building.  At that point, I told Chief Ganci I was
going to quickly walk around the perimeter of the Trade
Center to assess the degree of damage to the two
towers, because our vantage point on West Street only
allowed us a view of the west side of the building.  I
took my aide with me.  We walked east on Vesey Street,
stopped in front of 7 World Trade Center to speak to
EMS Chief Peruggia, who gave me a quick update about
victims on that side of the building.
     Q.   What was that update if you recall?
     A.   He told me how many jumpers he felt had hit
the plaza, which we knew we couldn't help and that the
D. NIGRO
6
people that were already injured were being removed to
where the ambulances were staging, which was north of
the Trade Center on West Street.  I don't recall him
giving me any number of people injured.
          We stepped over small airplane aviation
parts, on Vesey, continued west, continued looking at
the building.  I looked up at the south tower and could
see that it was more heavily damaged than we could tell
from our west vantage point.  That the second plane had
 - although it hit from the south, it also did a great
deal of damage to the north part of the building.  As I
got on to Church Street, I walked south on Church
towards Liberty, where I was going to turn right.  I
looked up at the east side of the south tower and found
that to be also very heavily damaged, which we couldn't
see.  I was going to report that information back to
Chief Ganci.
          I was stopped briefly by a person who used to
work here in headquarters, whose name escapes me, Gabe
Delapena, who used to work here until a few months ago,
who was very very - I wouldn't have stopped, but he was
very very concerned that his wife worked on the 92
floor of the south tower.  I just recall telling him
that hopefully she came down when the first plane hit
D. NIGRO
7
and that maybe she was in the area.  That's the last I
saw of him.  He survived and she didn't.  After I spoke
to him we proceeded south, heard a loud noise, knew it
to be the building coming down, looked up, saw the
building coming down on us.  I grabbed my aide as he
was going to go south and I took him east on Dey
Street, and we got as far as we could until materials
started crashing down and took refuge in a doorway of a
building just east of the Millennium Hotel and survived
in the doorway.
          When all the noise stopped and all the dust
stopped, and we were able to get out of our position,
we started walking east.  We couldn't see if anything
was left standing because of the dusk and the darkness
that was created.  You couldn't see at all from that
vantage point anything maybe above the second story
level, or more than 50 or 100 feet ahead of you.
          So I decided to go east and then south and
come back around on to West Street to get to the
command post that way, which proved to be a good
decision because at some point, east and south of - I
don't know what street we were on, we heard the noise
again and knew that it was now the north tower coming
down.  Same huge dust cloud enveloped everybody.  We
D. NIGRO
8
waited out the dust cloud for a few minutes.  We had
handy talkies turned to a few different channels and we
heard a few messages, but very little, especially after
the second collapse.  More people calling in car 3,
which is Chief Ganci, or other people that would be at
the command post and not getting an answer.
          At that point we didn't know -- I knew a very
very large number of people were killed, but I didn't
know about the command post.  I was worried but there
was no way of telling yet.  As we continued around to
get back to West Street, we got over just south of - I
guess it would be south of Rector on West and found the
large communications tractor trailer vehicle with two
dispatchers that were set up there and they had Dr.
Prezant and Dr. Kelly with them and two members of
engine or ladder 10 and that was it.
          I asked them, we wanted to get back to the
command post, where was the command post now set up,
because they were communicating with both a dispatcher
and whoever was at the scene and I was told that the
command center was now at Barclay and Broadway at the
tip of City Hall Park and Chief Haring was in charge,
Deputy Chief Haring, division 6, which was the first
mention of his name, that message.  I felt that
D. NIGRO
9
everyone else was killed, everyone else that was a
ranking member of the Department, if that was the
case.
          We walked up to that location.  Dr. Kelly,
Prezant and two members of engine 10 and my aide and
myself walked up amidst the dust and the paper, got
there and found out that -- the first semi-good news,
that another command post was indeed operating at West
and Chambers and that Assistant Chief Carruthers was in
charge up there.  I left Chief Haring in charge of his
operation.  They were putting out fires in the Trinity
Church area and in the area around 5 World Trade
Center, Fulton Street.  I went up to the other command
center, found Chief Carruthers, Deputy Assistant Chief
Michael Butler, and started to find out who was missing
and who had survived.  So Chief Callan was there and
alive.  I was told Chief Cassano was taken to the
hospital.  Chief Burns and Barbara were missing, as was
Chief Ganci, Commissioner Feehan and numerous other
people.
          At some point after I was briefed, I took
command of the operation from the Chambers Street post
and was told that Chief Fellini was at the forward
operations post at West and Vesey, from which the
D. NIGRO
10
search, rescue and extinguishment was being directed of
what was left of the complex.
          Steve Mosiello and Chief Turi told me they
had been looking for Chief Ganci.  They thought they
knew where he was, unsuccessfully, and they were going
back to - I walked back down to the area where he was
and sometime after that they found Chief Ganci.  He was
like the first person that I knew of that they found in
the rubble.  He was somewhere across West Street from
the Trade Center.  The most important operational
decision to be made that afternoon was the collapse had
damaged 7 World Trade Center, which is about a 50 story
building, at Vesey between West Broadway and Washington
Street.  It had very heavy fire on many floors and I
ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to
protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue
operations that were going on at the time and back the
people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did
collapse, we wouldn't lose any more people.
          We continued to operate on what we could from
that distance and approximately an hour and a half
after that order was given, at 5:30 in the afternoon, 7
World Trade Center collapsed completely.  I continued
to operate at the scene until probably somewhere around
D. NIGRO
11
8 o'clock, at which time I borrowed Chief Meyers' car,
because mine was destroyed and went home to say hello,
shower, change my clothes and came back to work at
approximately between 11 and midnight with Chief Turi.
          That does it for September 11.
     Q.   Just a few questions, Chief.  Were you
actually on Liberty when the south tower started to
come down?
     A.   I was on Church.
     Q.   Near Liberty?
     A.   Probably between Dey and Cortlandt and I went
back a few paces and then ran east on Dey and that's
where we ended up.  I think if I look at this map, the
building we took refuge was the Dey Street side of 195
Broadway.
     Q.   As you were doing the tour, did you have any
further communication with Chief Ganci over the radio
as you observed the --
A. No.
     Q.   Did you notice civilians evacuating through
the concourse on Church Street which I guess had an
exit from the north tower?
     A.   They were exiting everywhere, but I don't
recall if I could see where they were coming out of.
D. NIGRO
12
     Q.   Did you happen to see any triage centers set
up by EMS on Church or Vesey?
     A.   I thought Chief Peruggia told me they were
triaging at 7 World Trade Center, where he was.  I
didn't see any other that I can recall.
     Q.   So there was no radio communications between
you and any of the command posts as you were coming
around doing the tour?
     A.   I don't believe so.
     Q.   After the first tower collapsed, I think you
mentioned you might have heard some calls over the
handy talkies?
     A.   Yes.  I heard someone trying to contact car 3
with no answer.  Maybe I thought someone was trying to
contact car 2 or one of the 4s, and again no answer.
Not much else.
     Q.   Did you ever make it into the FDNY command
center that was inside the lobby of the north tower?
A. No.
     Q.   What about the command center that I believe
you said Burns and Barbara left to set up?
     A.   No, Chief Burns and Chief Barbara were going
to 2 World Trade and I didn't make it into any of the
buildings.
D. NIGRO
13
     Q.   Can you tell us if, as you started your tour,
if you noticed rigs and ambulances down West Street or
on Vesey or anything like that?
     A.   We were set up on every street.  I know
before I started, before I started, I directed a couple
of officers, I think one of them, was it, was the
Captain of 290 engine, Sudnik, he is a Chief now, to
insure that the rigs didn't block West Street so that
ambulances could get in and out.  Because we have a
tendency to, when we have that many rigs coming in for
a fifth alarm, close the streets.  If we needed to take
away many injured people, which we were hoping we would
be doing that day, we would need a clear path up and
down West Street.  So I know I directed him and
possibly another officer to make sure the rigs on West
Street parked to the curbs so that ambulances could get
between them.  I took off east on Vesey.
     Q.   Stepping back for a moment to when you were
coming over the Brooklyn Bridge, could you make a
determination based on a visual from that distance how
involved or fully involved the fire was and how many
floors?
     A.   It looked to me like it was involving about
10 floors of the building, and the way it was burning,
D. NIGRO
14
I stated to Chief Ganci on the way there that I didn't
believe we could extinguish the fire.
     Q.   That was based on what?
     A.   The number of floors I think.  The volume of
fire on the number of floors.  To my recollection, we
had never put out a fire that involved that many floors
in a high rise building in this city before.  I think
more or less the direction of - in both towers ended
up, evacuation was the main, the initial concern.  Get
as many people out of the building as we could.
     Q.   Did you ever hear any communications over the
radio before the first collapse that OEM thought the
buildings could collapse and to get out of the area?
     A.   No, I heard later from an individual that
somebody came over from OEM to the command post after I
left and told Chief Ganci the building was unstable and
that was moments before it came down.  The only thing I
do remember and I didn't hear it over the radio, I
don't think, was that a third plane was heading in the
direction, I assumed was heading in the direction of
the Trade Center, that there was a third plane, then a
little later on somebody told me about the plane that
hit the Pentagon.  I don't know who told me that.  The
third plane was -- I don't think it came over the handy
D. NIGRO
15
talky.  I think somebody walked up to me and told me,
somebody of some credibility, that it wasn't just a
person on the sidewalk, but someone either with us or
the police or EMS that I knew, because I recall taking
it as a serious issue.
     Q.   The last point where you saw Chief Downey was
at the command center on West Street?
     A.   Yes, after the second plane hit, he told me I
want to take all these units and start evacuating the
stairwells in the south tower.  I said okay, good.
Take them.  And Ray gathered all those units up,
however many there were, and marched them across the
street.  I don't know exactly how he got there, because
we were concerned with the jumpers that were coming
down out of the north tower at the time.
          My assumption was he was going to take them
south and go across through to the hotel to get into
the tower.
          ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER DRURY:  We are going
     to end this now Chief.  The time is 4:20.  I thank
     you very much.
File No. 9110155
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
             ROBERT BROWNE
   Interview Date:  October 24, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          MR. ECCLESTON:  Today's date is October 24,
     2001.  The time is 2140.  I'm Christopher
     Eccleston of the New York City Fire Department,
     World Trade Center Task Force.  I am conducting an
     interview with the following individual.
     Q.   Please state your name, title and assigned
command area.
     A.   ROBERT BROWNE, deputy chief, Division 4.
          MR. ECCLESTON:  Also present.
          MS. BASTEDENBECK:  Christine Bastedenbeck of
     the New York City Fire Department World Trade
     Center Task Force.
          MR. ECCLESTON:  Also present?
          MR. KIMBALL:  Robert Kimball, EMT, chief's
     aide, Fire Department.
     Q.   Chief Browne, were you working on the morning
of September 11, 2001?
     A.   Yes, I was working that morning.
     Q.   Were you assigned to the World Trade Center
disaster?
     A.   Yes, I was.
     Q.   Could you please in your own words tell me
about the events of the day?
     A.   I had logged on at eight o'clock in the
ROBERT BROWNE
3
morning, and I was enroute to the division office, and
I got to approximately about 164th Street and the Grand
Central Parkway when I heard the first radio reports
there was possibly an incident going on at the World
Trade Center.
          I made a quick phone call to the Division 4
office and spoke to Sal Sangeniti and asked him what
did it look like, you know, did he have anything more
on it, and he said, "You better go.  It sounds like
it's a big one."
          So I said all right, and I started heading
into the job, and as I was -- naturally, as I was
heading down the Grand Central Parkway, more and more
information was coming in, and it sounded like it was
very serious, and the reports from citywide radio were
pretty chilling, and I knew that we would be going to
work and having a busy day, so just trying to put my
thoughts together, thinking back to '93 of what went on
in '93 when I was there, and trying to get as much
information as I could.
          I actually put on 1010 WINS on the radio in
the car, trying to get more information, because a lot
of the information was being drowned out on citywide
with all the numerous units coming up and stuff, and I
ROBERT BROWNE
4
guess I made it down onto the FDR.  I went over the
Triborough, down the FDR Drive.  The FDR Drive in spots
was partially closed by police officers, and I started
to make some good time, and I guess as I got around
down by the U.N., they were reporting over the radio
that a second plane had hit the second tower.
          Swung around west -- I swung around the
battery, and I came up on West Street out of the tunnel
from the east side, and there was an officer standing
blocking my way, and he was -- he was trying to direct
me over out of the way because there was bodies
scattered along West Street all the way back as far as
the tunnel at that location, and I was in amazement.  I
couldn't believe it.
          I pulled up a little bit further onto -- by
the Downtown Athletic Club on West Street there, and I
pulled over, and I parked my car at that spot.
     Q.   Can you indicate on the map where you parked
your vehicle?
     A.   Yeah.  Probably -- let's see.  Probably
somewhere in this vicinity right here, down here.
     Q.   Do you know what vehicle number that was?
     A.   792.
     Q.   792?
A. Yeah.
ROBERT BROWNE
5
     Q.   Also chief, on that day, were you working
with somebody?
     A.   No, I was by myself.  As a matter of fact, it
was my first official tour as a deputy chief with the
department, and I did not have an aide at that time.
          As I pulled up, I parked my car, grabbed my
gear out of the car, and at that point, Chief
Carasquillo and Sal Sangeniti had pulled up alongside
of me with, I believe, Jason Katz, who was Billy Day's
aide, and Billy was out, so I yelled over to Pete,
would it be all right if I take Jason and keep Jason
with me, and he said yeah, sure, no problem.
          And I reported to the command post at that
point.
     Q.   Where was the command post?
     A.   The command post was located on West Street,
basically almost right in between Tower 1 and Tower 2
on the west side of the street over by the Winter
Garden.  That's where I -- when I got into the command
post, Chief Gombo, and Chief Kowalczyk -- and Chief
Kowalczyk appeared that he had just pulled up there
himself, because he was just putting his coat.
          I reported in and I asked them what they
ROBERT BROWNE
6
needed of me, what assignment they had for me, and they
told me they wanted me to go to Liberty and West Street
and run the operation at the corner of Liberty and West
Street.
          So with that I grabbed my aide, Jason, and we
started heading back towards Liberty and West Street.
We were walking back.  We just left the command post.
There was a lot of debris coming down off the building,
and I turned around to Jason and I told Jason, "Make
sure you have your chin strap on you your helmet.
Don't just have it sitting on your head.  Make sure you
secure it to your head," and with, that a large piece
of debris was coming down, sailing off the building.  I
remember looking up watching, because I was afraid that
we were going to get hit with something, and it had to
be almost the size of a Volkswagen car, a sheet of
metal almost the size of a Volkswagen car, and it
was -- it was burned.  It was glowing red, and it just
landed in the street in front of us, maybe 20 feet in
front of us.
          I turned around to Jason and I said, "Look,
man, you got to be real careful.  This is bad."  I
said, something -- you know, so he said, "All right,"
and we headed off to West Street down to West and
ROBERT BROWNE
7
Liberty.  I got to the corner of West and Liberty, and
on the east side -- on the east corner of West and
Liberty, just underneath the foot bridge that crosses
over, there were probably about three or four
ambulances parked there, and all the personnel were out
of their rigs with their equipment, but they were
standing more towards the corner of -- they were more
towards the Liberty Street side, just off of West, and
they seemed to be like all in amazement.  They were all
standing there, staring up, looking at what was going
on, and none of them had helmets on.
          A couple of them were Metro Care units.
There was a voluntary unit there, one of our units, and
we had units on the west side of Liberty, as well,
standing there.  Some of them had some gear on.  Some
of them had some helmets on, and I remember saying to
Jason, "Jason, do me a favor.  Let's take a piece of
paper out, go over there, and identify who those people
are.  If they have helmets, make sure they get them
on.  If they don't have helmets, let me know."  I said,
"We need to get them out of here, you know, put them
into an area that's back a way and little bit further."
          Timewise, I'm not real good with the time
frame, but I might have been there maybe ten minutes,
ROBERT BROWNE
8
and I don't know if I heard it over the radio, or if I
heard it over somebody else's radio, or if somebody
else just yelled, and they said, "Watch out!  The
building's coming down."
          And with that, I can remember turning around,
and I was standing right on the corner of West and
Liberty, on the east corner of West and Liberty, and I
can remember turning around and looking up at the
building and seeing a very, very large section of the
building just coming -- coming straight down at us with
a sound like I have never heard before in my entire
life, that it -- I had thought for a moment that
another plane had come, that had hit the building.
That's how loud the sound was.
          I remember turning to everybody and looking
and just telling them to run.  I told them all just
run, run, and that's pretty much what happened.  I
mean, I got -- it was basically a free-for-all, I
think, at that point for everybody.
          I ran, and I could feel the -- I could feel
the air changing behind me, and I just said to myself
that I was going to -- that I was going to run as far
as I could until I felt something either hit me and
knock me down or until -- until it knocked me down.
ROBERT BROWNE
9
          I probably got about 20 feet or so, because I
thought I was going to be able to get pretty far, but I
only managed to get from the corner of West and Liberty
to underneath the foot bridge, which was probably maybe
only about 20 or 30 feet.  I don't even know if it's
that far, and I got hit in the back of the head with a
small object, which startled me a little bit, and then
I got struck across my back with a larger object, which
knocked me to the ground, and at that point, I said,
 "Well, I guess I'm just going to stay right here," and
I can remember grabbing my chin strap and holding onto
my chin strap on my helmet, and just hoping that it
didn't come off.  I was afraid I was going to have a
head trauma or something.  I didn't want to wind up a
vegetable after this thing, and I can remember praying,
asking Him not to take me, and if He was going to take
me, please make it fast.
          At that point, it was like -- it got totally
pitch black.  I couldn't see anything.  I couldn't
breathe.  There was a wave that was -- I don't know if
you're a beach person, but if you're a beach person and
you ever been in the ocean, and you have a large wave
come over you, and you can just feel it keep coming and
coming.  It's like the debris just kept coming and
ROBERT BROWNE
10
piling up and piling up, and when it finally did stop,
I wasn't sure if I was alive or if I was dead.
          It was pitch black.  I had something very
heavy across my back.  I had something across my legs,
because I remember trying to move my legs, because I
was stuck under whatever, this debris, and I wasn't
able to move.
          I can remember reaching for my radio and
calling out a Mayday for the corner of Liberty and
West, and nobody answered.  There was no answer.  It
was just dead quiet, and I just assumed at that point
that everybody was gone, and I wasn't -- I couldn't --
you know, I didn't call out any more.
          Then as the thick black, black smoke and
blackness around me started to clear a little bit, and
it started to get a little bit grayer, kind of like got
to a dark gray, and then it got like a lighter gray, I
could hear -- as it started to get lighter, I could
hear people from the distance yelling for help.  I
could hear people saying, "Help me, I'm over here," or
"Help me, I'm over there," and I started doing the
same thing.
          I started calling out for help because I was
unable to free myself from where I was, and I called
ROBERT BROWNE
11
out several times, and then finally I heard somebody
answer, and they said, "Relax.  We can see you.  We're
going to get you.  Just take it easy.  Just stay where
you are."
          And probably a couple of minutes later they
got some of this debris off me, and they managed to get
whatever it was that was on my back -- I believe it was
a chunk of concrete or -- I don't know what exactly, a
piece of metal.  I'm not sure even sure exactly what it
was that was on my back, and I had a large piece of
metal across my legs.  That's why I couldn't move my
legs, but these two guys that got me out were like
amazing.  I couldn't believe it.
          It was a guy from a react team and a Hatzolah
paramedic, and when I got up from the pile, I guess I
kind of just dusted myself off a little bit and tried
to regain my composure, and I started looking for
Jason, who had been with me, my aide, and I couldn't
find him, and I assisted this paramedic from Hatzolah
and the react guy in removing a couple of other people
that were trapped in some debris out of that, and then
all of a sudden Jason appeared, and he was hurt.  His
hand was hurt.  He was a mess, and we sat him down.
          I was trying to find Chief Wells.  I had just
ROBERT BROWNE
12
prior to -- two minutes before the building going down,
I had had a conversation with Chief Wells, and he had
told me that he was going into the building with 18
Charlie, and he was much closer towards the tower than
I was, and I was unable to find him.
     Q.   You need to take a break?
     A.   No, I'm all right.
     Q.   If you do, it's fine.
     A.   No, I'm okay.
          So we tried to gather up as many people from
that area as I possibly could, tried to put some sort
of semblance of a team back together to see what we
could do at that point, and I can remember Chief Wells
coming up out of the middle of the pile over on -- over
close towards the tower, and it was like I was just so
relieved to see him at that point, you know, a special
place in my heart.  Charlie and I are good friends.  It
was devastating to think that he was gone at that
point.
          So we gathered up, started to take care of
some of the people that were injured.  We collected the
people, and we kept them underneath that foot bridge
there on the very west section by the World Financial
Center there, and we bandaged up a few people, tried to
ROBERT BROWNE
13
get them together.  There was no radio contact.
          I didn't know where anybody else was, and
then I don't know how much time actually transpired
between the time that we took care of some of our
members that were injured, and the next thing I know,
the north tower collapsed, and again, that horrible
sound, and we all just ran.  We all ran again.
          I didn't want to take my chance out on the
street again that time.  The financial center was
there.  A large window on the ground floor had been
blown out from the first collapse.  I was able to jump
through that window with Jason and Chief Wells, and I
didn't know if I should go completely through the
building or if I should stay in there and whatever.
Like I said, it was a coin toss.
          I went in the building.  I ran to the left as
I entered the building.  I found a bakery that was
there.  At that point, I lost Jason, because I think
Jason went straight through.  He ran straight through
the building.  I lost Chief Wells.
          I ran into the bakery, and when I got into
the bakery, there was a back room.  I ran behind the
counter and went to the back room, and there were two
large freezers in there, and I went in there and I
ROBERT BROWNE
14
knelt -- I knelt in the corner facing the freezer as
the debris was hitting the building, and the windows
blew out in the place, and all that -- all over again.
Relived the whole thing over again, with all that
black, thick, choking smoke, unable to see, the fear
that -- whether or not that building was going to hold
up, and, again, I don't know how long I was in there,
but I was in there with -- there were three other
gentlemen in the room with me when it started to
clear.  One guy was a photographer for the Daily News.
The other guy was a transit worker or something, and I
think the other guy was just a regular Joe, just a
civilian who followed us, you know.
          I hope he didn't follow me because I thought
I knew where I was going, because he'd be shit out of
luck if he did, but we all stayed in there.
          I can remember it starting to clear a little
bit once again, checked with them to make sure that --
checked with them to make sure that they were all all
right, and I remember telling them, "Come on guys.  We
got to get out of here.  I don't know if this building
is going to hold up," because so much debris hit the
building, I didn't know what kind of shape it was in,
and I certainly didn't want to get caught in there,
ROBERT BROWNE
15
because nobody would have known we were ever in there.
We could have been in there forever.
          So we tried to make it out on the -- tried to
exit out of the West side of the building to South End
Avenue, and there was a whole bunch of debris blocking
the doorway for our exit out, so the four of us stood
there and grappled through the debris enough so we
could climb up over some of the stuff and exit out onto
the avenue.
          When I got out onto south end avenue, there
was an ambulance sitting right there, perfect shape, no
problem.  It was running.  I said, oh, troops.
Somebody else is here.  That's so good, and I went
running up to the truck, and naturally it was locked,
just running, sitting there, but I was -- I was pretty
stunned at that point, and I think that's the first
time when I heard what appeared to be or what I thought
in my mind was that we were going to be bombed, because
I heard a fighter jet overhead, and when I heard the
fighter jet overhead, Jason had come out of a store
across the street on South End Avenue, and we looked at
each other, and I said, "You all right?"  He said,
"Yeah, I'm okay.  I can keep going."
          I said, "Okay, good.  Come on, we got to get
ROBERT BROWNE
16
away from here."  I said, "I don't know what's going on
yet."  I said, "We got to get away from here.  I have
no communication with anybody."  I said, "Let's just
move away from here."
          So I gathered anybody that was on the street
there at that point, because people were starting to
straggle out of the stores and stuff, and I told them,
"Come on.  You got to keep moving, keep moving."  And
I made it to the -- again, I heard that jet and I
thought we were going to be bombed, and I started to
run, and there was a cop that appeared on the corner,
and he says, "Don't run.  It's one every ours."  He
says, "It's one of ours.  Don't worry."
          And that was quite a -- quite a moment of
relief, knowing that it wasn't, you know, whoever had
done this horrible thing to us, that they weren't now
going to just be bombing us.
          I got to the corner of Albany and South End,
and I encountered four firefighters carrying a
firefighter with Commissioner Gregory and Dr. Kelly,
and they needed an ambulance, and I looked down -- I
looked down the block at the river promenade that runs
along the Hudson River on Albany Street, and there were
four ambulances down there, so Jason ran down there,
ROBERT BROWNE
17
got one of the ambulances, brought it back up.
          We loaded the firefighter in the ambulance,
and they took him off to the hospital.  So with those
three ambulances that were down there, I said, "Come
on, let's go down to the water."  And Commissioner
Gregory had mentioned that the fire boat was going to
be coming up to that location, so I went down there,
and there were probably five or six, seven EMS
personnel.  I couldn't tell you who they are, what the
names were, who they worked for, but they were there,
and I think one crew was from Flushing Hospital, and
there were hundreds and hundreds of people just running
down that promenade.
          All kinds of boats were pulling up.  The fire
boat had pulled up and docked.  Several other boats --
a police boat.  There was a tug boat there.  There were
civilian boats pulling up, willing just to take people,
hand them off over onto the boat, and they were going
to take them off on over to Jersey for us.
          I got together the crews there, and we kind
of put a little makeshift triage area together, and we
would evaluate people before we put them on the boat to
see which ones -- because we wanted to put all the
noninjured people on one boat, and we wanted to put the
ROBERT BROWNE
18
injured people on another boat, and, again, I can't
tell you how long I operated at that location.  It must
have been an hour and a half, maybe two hours.  I'm not
even sure.  But we loaded hundreds and hundreds of
people onto those boats that were there.
          At one point Charlie Wells just appeared
again out of the blue, and it was a great moment.  I
was so happy to see him, because I had lost him in the
second collapse again.  I remember we hugged each
other, and we said, you know, to each other, "You all
right?  You all right?"  And he said "Yeah," and he
says, "I'm going back.  I'm going to do some stuff.
You stay here, do what you got to do," and he took off.
          Probably about 15 or 20 minutes later, Chief
Villani walked up the promenade and told me that they
were setting up a major area down at the Staten Island
Ferry Terminal, and that I should make my way down
there with whatever resources that I had, so that's
what we did.
          We gathered up the people that I could
gather.  We confiscated one of these little golf carts
that somebody was using up and down the promenade.  We
took that from them, and I loaded all these people on
that, and we started heading down towards the Staten
ROBERT BROWNE
19
Island Ferry Terminal.
          I got probably about two blocks away, and I
encountered a paramedic from Battalion 57 -- I don't
know the kid's name -- running in the opposite
direction that we were going, towards us, and he was
screaming at the top of his lungs.  He was in a panic,
and he was yelling, "There's a gas leak!  There's a gas
leak!  There's going to be an explosion.  You have to
get out of here.  You have to get out of here."
          And he was really -- he was wild.  He was
real wild, and I jumped off the cart, because he ran
right by me, and I jumped off the cart, and I chased
him down, and I grabbed him, and I put him against the
wall, and I kind of shook him, and I told him, "Look,
relax.  You're going to be okay.  Everything is fine."
          I told him who I was.  I said, "Come on,
you're coming with me," and he was like in this panic,
and I told him again, "You're going to be fine.  You're
coming with us.  You're going to be okay," and I
convinced him.  He calmed down a little bit.  He was
shaken.  He started crying.
          I put him on the cart, and we headed down.
We got around the vicinity of the North Cove Marina,
and they were doing major evacuations into Jersey out
ROBERT BROWNE
20
of the North Cove Marina, and there was a police
lieutenant and a police sergeant standing in the middle
of the roadway, not allowing anybody to proceed past
there, because he said there is a gas leak or there is
a report of a gas leak.  He says everybody has to
evacuate lower Manhattan.
          So at that point, we got on a police launch
and went to Jersey.  As I hopped on the police launch,
this buddy of mine that I fish with all the time, who
works for harbor, he said, "Are you all right?  Is
Chief McCracken okay?  You know, what's the deal?  Did
everybody make it from Rockaway?"  I said, "Look, I
don't know."  I said, "I couldn't tell you anything,"
and we made it over to the dock in Jersey in a matter
of minutes, maybe five minutes or so.  Scooted us right
over there.
          I got off the launch.  One of the EMTs that
was rushing with us from Flushing Hospital, she started
having like an asthma attack or something.  She was
having some sort of reaction.  I don't know what it
was, and I made sure that all of them stayed there and
went up to the medical treatment area up there to get
seen.
          At that point, I turned around with Jason.  I
ROBERT BROWNE
21
said, "Jason, I got to go back.  I can't stay here."  I
said, "I can't stay here and just receive victims
here."  I said "I need to go back."
          Jason said, "Okay, I'm going with you."  He
says, "I'm still all right," and I yelled to my buddy,
and he told me -- he says, "I'll be back in five
minutes."  He said, "I'll take you back with me next
trip."
          And in the interim, another police boat
pulled in, and when the police boat was getting ready
to pull out, I just hopped on that boat and got back,
and I made it down to -- I got back into the North Cove
Marina, and I made it down into the spot in Battery
Park where the Indian Museum is.  It's right by the
launch for the Liberty Island thing, and there was
probably maybe five or six ambulances parked there, and
Chief Mark Stefans was there in charge of that
operation.  He was told to go there, and that's where
he was, and he had several EMTs there.
          They weren't seeing any patients.  It was
that same frustration that I think that everybody felt
that whole time after the first initial patients prior
to the building going down.  Everybody was just kind of
just standing around in wonderment, wondering where are
ROBERT BROWNE
22
all the victims, and he was there, and they took care
of me there.
          I was having a lot of trouble with my eyes.
I couldn't see really well.  I could hardly open my
eyes at that point from all the stuff that was in my
eyes, and I don't really think that I was feeling
anything yet as far as injuries or anything like that,
because I was kind of just running on adrenaline, and
all I could remember was that I wanted to call home to
let them know I was alive.  I was unable to get out.  I
couldn't reach anybody.
          I probably stayed there with Mark Stefans
probably about 25 or 30 minutes.  Again, I don't know.
It could have been and hour and a half, it could have
been two hours.  My time line is horrible.  I'm sorry,
but we were there for awhile, and I turned around to
Mark and I said, "Mark, we're not doing anything
here."  I said, "Everybody is just, you know, maybe a
half a mile away at the Staten Island Ferry Terminal.
Maybe that is where we should take all these
resources.  Let's pack them up.  Let's go down there,
and we'll shut this thing down and go down here.  We
are not seeing anybody here."
          So that was what we did.  We talked about it
ROBERT BROWNE
23
and he decided yeah, okay, we'll do that, and we got
everybody together, packed up all our stuff, got the
ambulances and all, and sent them down there, and Chief
Stefans and I walked from that location down to the
Staten Island Ferry Terminal, and as I walked into the
Staten Island Ferry Terminal, I guess I had reached my
point where I could probably no longer function, and I
walked in, and I can remember seeing Dr. Richman's
face, and Dr. Richman took one look at me, and he says,
"Bobby," he says, "You got to lie down."  So I said,
"I'm all right.  I'm all right."
          He says, "No, you're done.  You are not
working any more."  He said, "Lie down.  Let us take
care of your eyes."  He says -- you know, and that's
when I tried to lay down, I couldn't lay down.  I
realized that my back was injured, that I had something
wrong with my back, and I couldn't lay down at that
point, and they flushed my eyes.  They took some vital
signs, and the next thing I know, I was getting in the
back of an ambulance and going off to the hospital, and
I believe I went to the hospital sometime in the
vicinity around three o'clock or 3:30 in the afternoon,
so, again, my time -- what areas where I thought I was
only for like 15, 20 minutes, it could have been a lot
ROBERT BROWNE
24
longer, and so somewhere along there all that time
transpired, but that's pretty much my story of that
day.
     Q.   Is there anything else you'd like to add to
this interview?  Anything at all?
     A.   No.
          MR. ECCLESTON:  This interview is concluded
     at 2212 hours.
File No. 9110156
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
           EMT DAVID TIMOTHY
   Interview Date:  October 25, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
D. TIMOTHY 2
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today is October 25th,
     2001.  I'm Paul Radenberg of the Fire
     Department, City of New York.  The time is
     now 0648 hours.  I am conducting an
     interview with --
          EMT TIMOTHY:  EMT David Timothy.
          MR. RADENBERG:  Of EMS Battalion 4.
     This interview is being conducted at EMS
     Battalion 4 regarding the events of the
     morning of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   David?
     A.   Well, I guess at approximately 8:48
when everything started my partner and I were
sitting on I believe that was Madison and Henry
Street, if I'm not mistaken.  No, Catherine and
Henry, which is about a block away from our 89,
our unit's 04 Boy.
          What happened was a civilian had
approached -- in fact, let me just start that
over.  A transmission came over the air about
something hitting or some sort of explosion in
the World Trade Center.  Secondly, a civilian
walked up to our ambulance and said, "I don't
know if you guys heard about I, but they're
D. TIMOTHY 3
bombing the World Trade Center."
          Okay.  We decided, all right, let's
just take a slow ride over there and see what's
going on.  As soon as we started moving off and
we had the Trade Center in view, my partner of
course made some expletives and he got on the air
and said he saw what happened right now, put us
on the assignment.
          I guess after that it probably took us
a few minutes to get over there from our
location.  Basically it's quick to get around
Manhattan from where we were.
          We got there and we were -- we took a
route down Fulton Street and ended up behind at
one point 01 Charlie, directly behind them.  Not
to block the street because there were other
engine companies coming in, we pulled up in front
of them.  I would say we were between Fulton and
Dey on Church.
          Of course at this time the south tower
was engulfed in flames.  There was debris
everywhere.  People were running out of the
buildings.  I guess people started coming towards
us asking for help.  A lot of people were
D. TIMOTHY 4
directing them to just get away from the
buildings if they can.
          There was one individual, he had glass
all over him.  He said he just got thrown through
some glass.  We put him on our ambulance, and we
continued to try to get like a few people as well
in the ambulance.
          The next thing I heard was a loud like
an engine roar.  I looked up, and the next thing
I knew I just saw -- I don't know if it was the
tail end of the plane or what, but I saw
something.  When I looked up, I heard "boom."
I'm sorry, the north tower was the first one.
The south tower then got hit when we were right
there.
          My partner was actually trying to put
someone in the ambulance at the time.  I grabbed
him and kind of like pushed him in and closed the
doors, and I like ran back up Fulton into a
little bit of like I guess a cul-de-sac.  It was
a big garage door.  There was a bunch of people
in there.  I ran back towards the ambulance, and
I moved the ambulance around to Fulton and
Broadway.
D. TIMOTHY 5
          My partner instructed me, he said,
"Listen, let's just get these people to the
hospital, you know, Beekman."  We went to Beekman
Hospital.  Actually we went up to Dey and back
onto Fulton and Broadway and went to Beekman
Hospital.
          There was probably about five or six
people.  We dropped them off.  There was one guy
with a broken ankle.  This one guy was having an
asthma attack right then and there.  The guy --
we actually long-boarded him.  There were like
two other civilians.  Really I can't remember
what was the extent of the injuries.  So we took
them to the hospital.  We left.
          Now, when the explosion hit I don't
know if -- it actually took me off my feet,
because I fell.  I actually got cuts and stuff
like that all over my hands and whatnot.  My
partner, he wanted to take me off service.  I was
like, "No, no, no, I've got to help someone.
Let's just do what we've got to do and get back
and try to give them some assistance."
          We took him back and for some reason I
kept hearing on the radio something about a
D. TIMOTHY 6
staging area at Vesey and West.  It was so
blocked up, you couldn't really travel around it.
So we ended being back at the same location that
we were before, which was Fulton and Church, of
course once again still parked in front of 01
Charlie's unit.
          Lieutenant Melarango, he came up to me
and he basically said don't move the bus.  Leave
the bus where it is.  Just before that actually
Lieutenant Medjuck had instructed the same thing.
He said don't move the bus whatever.
          The next instructions from him were
whatever you do don't leave.  What we're going to
do is give you -- I can't remember if he said six
or eight, whatever, like six patients.  The next
instructions were to take these people to
Brooklyn, take them as far into Brooklyn as you
can, go as far as into Kings County.  I said,
"All right.  Not a problem."
          So more or less now it was more like a
stand and really wait kind of a show.  At this
time both towers of course are engulfed in
flames.  This is when to me the worst of it
really started beginning.  Now you see the people
D. TIMOTHY 7
jumping out of the buildings.  There are body
parts everywhere.  It just was a mess.
          So my partner and I were just waiting
there.  I think we just started to get the first
of the few people, and now I'm like wondering,
all right, what am I supposed to do?  I'm
driving, so I guess I'm going to have to wait.
          So my partner now -- I think he's just
getting one person on board and just started
hearing I guess like -- to me it sounded like the
8:45 from Jamaica station going to Atlantic -- to
Flatbush Avenue, the Long Island Railroad, just
some big train just right over your head, like a
whole bunch of locomotives just running right
over your head.
          I looked up, and the building just
tilted and started coming down.  All I could say
was run.  That's the only thing I could remember
from them is just saying run.  I could have sworn
my partner was behind me, and I'm running.
          I'm running actually down north on
Church and made like a quick right on Vesey where
the Stage Deli is I guess right here.  To me it
looked like it was open.  I ran straight to it,
D. TIMOTHY 8
and it was locked.
          At this time it just got totally black.
All I could do is think of right then and there
was just to crouch and just try to get shelter,
because things are hitting me.  Something started
hitting me in my back.
          There was a whole bunch of people in
front of me, and everybody's like -- I don't
know.  I guess the last person they saw was me,
and people are like, "What are we going to do?
What are we going to do?"
          Out of nowhere this person grabs my
shoulder and happened to be a cop.  I said, "Have
you got anything heavy on you like your night
stick or something?"  I grabbed him and threw him
right in front of me.  I said, "There is glass
right in front of you.  Start breaking it,
because that's the only way we can get shelter."
          So he started breaking the glass, and
we went in.  I instructed everybody to get in
there.  People were coughing, respiratory
problems, whatever the case may be.  I started
telling everybody, "Listen, there's water.  I'm
sorry, but just start cleaning your face off,
D. TIMOTHY 9
wash your mouth off."  Guys were coming in with
irritated eyes.  I said, "Wash your eyes out."
It's a deli, so there are sinks and everything.
I said, "Wash your face off, whatever."
          The cop was like, "Where do we go from
here?"  I said, "If anybody comes in here that
can walk, let them get as far away as possible."
It was so weird.
          A woman actually came up to me and
asked me how to get uptown.  I mean, basically
she wanted to know if that train station, the A
train, which was I guess Fulton Street train
station, if she should take it to go uptown.  I
didn't even know -- I said, "Ma'am, I don't even
know what to tell you, to be honest with you.  I
don't know what to tell you."  I said, "I don't
even know if they're running."
          After that we probably stayed -- time,
don't even ask me time.  I don't even know what
time it is by this time.  If I had to make an
estimate, we probably stayed there probably a
half hour, if that much, after the first building
collapsed.
          Let's see, the first building
D. TIMOTHY 10
collapsed -- the first one collapsed, oh, 9:55?
Wow.  We probably stayed there like not even a
half hour, probably like 15, 20 minutes, until
all the smoke cleared a little bit.
          Then I walked back outside and I
started looking for my partner.  At this time the
deli is cleared out.  I started looking for my
partner and couldn't find him.  The first person
I bumped into was Alex Lousky.  I always remember
that.  He said he couldn't even find his partner.
I told him I saw James right behind me.  I said,
"Have you seen him?"  He's like, "No."  All
right.
          Now, the thing was I didn't even know
where my ambulance was at this point.  Even
though they said it was still there, I didn't
even think about checking.
          Now, at this time I started walking
back on Church going south, and I got back to
Fulton Street.  There was a bunch of rubble and
stuff right around here.  This building was -- I
don't even want to talk about that building.  You
couldn't really see much down this way anyway.
But I walked here and I walked back up Fulton
D. TIMOTHY 11
Street.  This is where I saw Alex, right around
in the middle of Fulton.
     Q.   Okay, between Church and Broadway.
     A.   Right.
          I walked back up Fulton Street, and I
saw Jay right in front of -- I guess this is The
Chase Manhattan Bank right here on the corner.
Of course I gave him the biggest hug I could ever
think of.  I just asked him, "Are you okay?"  He
said, "Yeah, I'm --"  He asked me the same thing.
          He said, "Listen, the bank told us we
could come inside and we could start bringing
people in.  We were in there, and of course
everybody else was like just in a daze.  There
were people in the bank, there were people
crying.  The one thing that was kind of great is
that people actually had access to phones.
          I think what happened is at this time I
lost -- I couldn't even find my radio.  Jay had
his.  So I got on the radio and said, "04 Boy,
all present and accounted for.  Where is
staging?"  He gave us two locations.  The one
that was closest was the South Ferry.
          Jay said, "Look, let's just stick
D. TIMOTHY 12
around here for a while, see what we can do.
Let's just not leave just yet.  Probably more
people can come in."  At this time I think I
walked back out.  If I'm not mistaken, I walked
back out of the bank and I saw one or two
lieutenants and one other guy.  I think they were
walking in the direction of Fulton Street.
          The next thing I knew, I'm standing
outside and this woman asked me, "Where do I go?
Where do I go?"  I said, "Usually you get as far
away as possible from here or you go inside the
bank and just try to compose yourself, because I
don't know what to tell you right about now.
It's not like -- I'm not saying I don't want to
tell you something.  It's like if I tell you go
north and something happens up north, I don't
want to tell you --"
Q. Right.
     A.   So I just told her, "Listen, get as far
away from the area right now."  The next thing I
knew, you started hearing more explosions.  I
guess this is when the second tower started
coming down.
          This time I was like, you know what,
D. TIMOTHY 13
what else?  What else?  I almost thought I had
died the first time.  I thought, what else is
there?  I walked back in the building and said,
"Jay, the second tower is coming down."  He said,
"What?"  He said, "Everybody just get down on the
floor and just get behind something."
          The same thing happened to the second
tower.  I'm looking from the window, just coming
down.  It was like, well, oh, well.  I'm like,
why am I standing in front of this glass, because
there's glass right in front of me.  I'm like, am
I nuts?  So I just walked away I crouched down
behind a desk.
          The one thing I did is a looked behind
me, and the revolving door was spinning.  From
the force of the wind it just started turning.
Of course it just got pitch-black again.  What
can you do?  You sit there and wait it out.
          It says here I guess the north tower
collapsed at 10:29.  So we started off -- we had
an elderly Jewish man.  From the time he got
there, he was on a stair chair.  We had water and
stuff like that, so we were giving him water to
drink and telling him to try to relax.  People
D. TIMOTHY 14
were calling loved ones.
          We got an ambulance, and we took the
old man to the ambulance.  We asked if anyone
else wanted to go to the hospital.  We told them,
"Listen, if you're not going to the hospital, you
can't stay in the bank.  Get as far away from
here as possible.  Start heading towards the
bridge.  Do whatever you've got to do just to get
away from the area."
          All right.  So I said, "Jay, listen, of
course the other location is up by Chelsea Piers.
We can't go up there."  We're on foot.  For some
reason I think one of the guys had found a ESU
tech bag, a really big one, and they brought that
in.  We started trying to see the inventory to
see what we had.  Let's just grab it and let's
just start heading out to the South Ferry.
          We grabbed the stuff.  I took the bag
on my back, started heading down Broadway, and
walked to the South Ferry.  And that was it, at
least for us.
     Q.   What's your partner's last name?
     A.   Zion.
     Q.   Zion?
D. TIMOTHY 15
     A.   Yeah.  He actually quit.
     Q.   Yeah, I heard that.
          The ambulance that took the man from
the bank, was that a fire ambulance?  Do you know
who it was?
     A.   No.  I have a feeling it was a Brooklyn
ambulance, because the unit that drove it, I
don't know if they're from Manhattan  it could
have been Brooklyn or whatever else.  I don't
know.  Then again, it could be all the way
uptown.  I don't know.  I only know the guys from
Queens and this Batallion, 4.
     Q.   After you lost your partner with the
first collapse, were you with any other ambulance
people?
     A.   Yeah.  I was standing with one of the
lieutenants, I think it was Medjuck, at one
point.  You know what, I really can't truly
remember, but I knew I saw someone with a blue
shirt, a light blue shirt, that is.
          We didn't really lose each other
because, you know what, because I knew exactly
where he was when the first tower collapsed.  Oh,
I'm sorry, no.  I'm thinking about the first
D. TIMOTHY 16
plane crash -- or the second plane crash.
          When the first building collapsed, no,
I wasn't with any lieutenants at all.  I didn't
see any lieutenants.  I only saw lieutenants
after I found him.
     Q.   After you found Jay?
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   At the bank?
     A.   Yeah.  I think there was Melarango and
someone else.  I knew it was one and one.  Then
one EMT was with him.  It was a group of people,
and they were heading down Fulton Street, if I'm
not mistaken, back towards the Battery.
That's all I can remember. A lot of that day is just like a big blur, believe it or not. Imean,IdidwhatIhadtodo. Itriedto keep that much composure. But when you try to formulate a time line, the only thing you can remember is like the events. You don't remember like at 9:56 --
     Q.   Right, yeah.
     A.   As far as I'm concerned, time just
stood still for a long while.  It was
interesting.
D. TIMOTHY 17
     Q.   Any thoughts or comments on the day?
     A.   Let's just hope it doesn't happen
again.
     Q.   I agree with you on that one.
     A.   I can't think of anything else.
          5:25, I didn't know that was the time
it fell, Seven World Trade.
     Q.   Yeah, it was later in the afternoon.
     A.   Like I said, that's as much as I
remember.  It was bad.
          MR. RADENBERG:  Okay. The time is now
     0708 hours, and the interview is concluded

FILE NO 9110157
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT RICHARD BRODERICK
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 25 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

BRODERICK
MR TAMBASCO TODAY IS OCTOBER 25TH THE TIME IS 652 AM MY NAME IS MIKE TAMBASCO WITH THE WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE WERE CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW INTO THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH AT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER OUR INTERVIEW TODAY IS
WITH
EMT BRODERICK RICHARD BRODERICK
EMERGENCY MEDICAL TECHNICIAN BATTALION 10 MANHATTAN
RESPONDED TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WE WERE AT ST LUKES HOSPITAL WHEN WE HEARD IT
GO DOWN THE POLICE OFFICERS WERE WITH US WE HEARD IT GO OVER THEIR RADIO AS LEVEL WHICH DIDNT UNDERSTAND WHAT LEVEL WAS BUT THEY
SAID THAT IT WAS PLANE INTO THE TOWERS BUT THEY DIDNT KNOW WHAT TYPE OF PLANE
SO WE TOOK OUR PATIENT TO ST LUKES HOSPITAL AND MY PARTNER CAME OUT AND SAID WE
WERE GOING TO THE WORLD TRADE SAID OKAY FINE SO WE STARTED TO HEAD DOWN THE WEST SIDE
AND TH APPR TH SC THE SCENARIO WE SAW THE TOWERS AND WE SAW THE SMOKE BELLOWING OUT OF THE FIRST TOWER IT WAS
HIGHWAY

BRODERICK
PRETTY SCARY
WHEN WE PULLED IN WE PULLED IN TO WEST
STREET AND VESEY WHICH IS SUPPOSEDLY THE STAGING AREA FOR EMS UNITS AND OTHER EMERGENCY VEHICLES
SAW MAYOR GIULIANI WALK IN FRONT OF US AND ASSUMED THAT WAS BEFORE HE GOT TRAPPED IN THE TRADE CENTER HIMSELF IN THE BUNKER
SO THEY TOLD US TO GO UP THE STREET WHICH THINK IS VESEY PULLED INTO THE SPOT
AND THE NEXT THING KNOW THERE WAS THIRD EMERQENCY MEDICAL TECHNICIAN WHO CAME RUNNINQ OVER TO US AND SAID HE WAS FROM QUEENS GENERAL HE TOOK THE TRAIN UP HE SAID HE WORKED HIS NAME WAS SANTIAGO DONT KNOW HIS FIRST NAME SPANISH KID YOUNG KID VERY NICE KID
THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW THEY WERE HANDING US FIVE BURN VICTIMS DONT KNOW WHAT THEY LOOKED LIKE BECAUSE WAS STILL IN THE DRIVERS SEAT DIDNT EVEN PUT THE THING IN PARK MY PARTNER SAID WEVE GOT FIVE BURN VICTIMS WERE GOING TO BELLEVUE HOSPITAL
SAID OKAY FIN
WE PULLED OUT AND SWUNG AROUND DONT KNOW THE STREET BUT SWUNG AROUND THE

BRODERICK
BLOCK THE NEXT THING WAS HACK ON WEST
STREET WHEN WAS COMING MY PARTNER YELLED CAN CURSE
DO WHATEVER YOU WANT
HE SAID OH SHIT SAID WHATS
THE MATTER LOOKED IN THE MIRROR AND ALL
SAW WAS CLOUDS DUST PUT MY FOOT DOWN ON THE
PEDAL WHEN YOURE DRIVING YOURE LIKE WITH YOUR FOOT ALL THE WAY DOWN AND YOURE STILL
TRYING TO PUSH THE VEHICLE TO GET IT GOING BECAUSE YOU THINK YOURE NOT MOVINQ
JUST TOOK OFF FLEW UP WEST STREET ALL THE WAY UP TO 34TH FROM THEN ON WE GOT
TO BELLEVUE AND WE DISEMBARKED THE PATIENTS DIDNT EVEN GET OUT OF THE VEHICLE AGAIN EITHER
THE DOCTORS AND THE NURSES WERE ALL THERE
THEY WERE GRABBING THEM OUT OF THE BUS
THEY WERE JUST GRABBING THEM OUT OF THE VEHICLE WITH MY PARTNER AND THE YOUNG GUY THAT
WAS WITH US THEY TOLD ME TO GET OUT OF THE EMERGENCY ROOM BAY AS SWUNG OUT OF THE BAY
TH THING KN MY PARTN IS
RUNNING BACK WITH STRETCHER AND EVERYTHING AND
HES TELLING ME WERE GOING BACK DOWN WERE

BRODERICK
GOING BACK DOWN
WE FLEW DOWN TO THE FDR DRIVE AND
GOT OFF AT PEARL STREET WE CAME UP THE RAMP RIGHT BY ONE POLICE PLAZA COULDNT BELIEVE
THE SCENERY IT WAS LIKE DONT KNOW HOW TO EXPLAIN IT PEOPLE WERE JUST FULL OF DUST IT WAS LIKE SNOW IT WAS ALL OVER THE PLACE
PEOPLE WERE IN DAZE THEY WERE
JUST THEY LOOKED LIKE ZOMBIES THE WORD WAS ZOMBIES THEY WERE WALKING THEY WERE CONFUSED
HAD TO QO REALLY SLOW THROUQH THE STREETS OR WOULD HIT THEM YOU COULDNT SEE ANYTHING ANYWAY
IT WAS SO FULL OF DUST
WE WOUND UP GOING DOWN DONT KNOW
WHAT THE STREETS WERE TO BE HONEST WITH YOU
REMEMBER PASSING THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK MAIDEN LANE IS THE FEDERAL RESERVE
BECAUSE HAPPENED TO SEE THE MARSHALS AND EVERYBODY OUT WITH THE SHOT GUNS AND MACHINE GUNS NOTICED THE AREA RIGHT AWAY THE NEXT THING WE SAW AN AMBULANCE FLYING SO MY PARTNER SAID TH IT WAS PRIVAT AMBULANC IT WASNT AN EMS UNIT IT LOOKED LIKE NEW YORK HOSPITAL UNIT SAID OKAY

BRODERICK
SO WE STARTED FOLLOWING THEM DONT KNOW WHAT THE STREET WAS BUT WE GOT TO
GREENWICH HE MADE THE LEFT AND WAS MOVING TO THE DEVASTATION MY PARTNER IS SAYING FOLLOW HIM FOLLOW HIM SAID IM NOT FOLLOWING HIM IM GOING TO GO AWAY FROM THE SCENE
SO MADE RIGHT ONTO GREENWICH
DONT GET ME WRONG IM NOT KNOCKING MY PARTNER HE WANTED TO HELP UNDERSTAND THAT YOU KNOW
WHAT IT IS IVE BEEN LIEUTENANT IVE BEEN
THROUQH THE STAQINQ COURSES THAT THEY QIVE
AND THE MANAGEMENT COURSES SO IN MY HEAD IM CLICKING AS LIEUTENANT ACTUALLY OR WHATEVER
THAT YOU GET SAFE AREA BECAUSE YOUR NO GOOD TO NOBODY UNLESS YOURE SAFE
PULLED IN WE FOUND SPOT ON HARRISON AND GREENWICH CLEAR AS BELL
NOTHING WAS GOING ON SAID WERE STOPPING HERE SO
WE PARKED THE VEHICLE PUT IT ON AN ANGLE THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW AN ELDERLY WOMAN CAME UP TO
ME AND SAID SHE WAS HAVING CHEST PAIN SO MY
PARTN AND TH GUY SANTIAG IN THE AMBULANCE
MEANWHILE IM TRYING TO NOTIFY THE
YOU

BRODERICK
DISPATCHER EXACTLY WHERE WE WERE IN CASE SOMETHING DID HAPPEN THEY WOULD KNOW WHERE WE
WERE NEXT THING YOU KNOW HERE COMES ANOTHER
LADY WALKING UP SAYING SHES HAVING AN ASTHMA ATTACK
MEANWHILE PARAMEDIC UNIT PULLS IN AN EMS PARAMEDIC UNIT ONE GUY KNOW DONT KNOW HIS LAST NAME HIS NAME IS JOE BUT KNOW HES OUT OF BELLEVUE AND EDDIE WAS HIS PARTNER
BALD HEADED GENTLEMAN THEY TOOK CARE OF THE
ASTHMA PATIENT
MEANWHILE HAD NO EXAGGERATION
HAD 25 PEOPLE COME UP TO ME AND VOLUNTEER
DIDNT KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THEM GAVE THEM ALL LITTLE STUPID THINGS TO DO JUST TO KEEP THEM OCCUPIED ID SAY ALL RIGHT TAKE THIS GENTLEMANS NAME TAKE THIS GENTLEMANS NAME TAKE THIS ONES NAME YOU KNOW JUST TO KEEP
THEM YOU CAN FEEL THEY WANTED TO DO SOMETHING AND THERE WASNT MUCH THEY COULD DO
NEXT THING YOU KNOW SEE MAN
WALKING UP TH STR DRAGGING UP TH STR
SO RUN DOWN TO HIM GRABBED HIM AND LOOK
AT HIS COLLAR HIS SUIT AND IT WAS WTC

BRODERICK
EMPLOYEE WORLD TRADE CENTER DONT KNOW IF HE
WAS SECURITY PERSON OR REMEMBER HIS FACE JUST DONT REMEMBER REMEMBER LOOKING AT
HIS ID REMEMBER HIS FACE BUT DONT REMEMBER HIS NAME THIS GUY LOOKED LIKE TIGER GOT AT HIM HIS SHIRT WAS ALL RIPPED UP PALE
SWEATY
SAT HIM DOWN
MEANWHILE AT THIS TIME ST VINCENTS
MEDICS PULL IN THE MEDIC FROM ST VINCENT USED TO BE MY PARTNER PHIL SO PHIL COMES RUNNING OVER SAID PHIL IVE QOT WORLD TRADE CENTER GUY HERE OKAY HE STARTS LISTENING TO HIS SIGNS STARTED GIVING HIM OXYGEN PUT HIM IN THE TRUCK PUT HIM IN ST VINNIES TRUCK
THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW THE POLICE ARE RUNNING UP THE STREET IT WASNT 10 15 MINUTES
WE WERE THERE FOR GOOD HOUR YOU FIGURE BY THE TIME WE DROPPED THE PATIENTS OFF AT BELLEVUE AND
WENT BACK TO THE SCENE WHEN GOT TO PEARL STREET IT HAD TO BE AROUND 11 AMQUARTER TO 11 11 AM
TH THING KN
COMING UP AND WE WERE GIVING THEM RESPIRATOR MASKS THEN THEY GAVE US THINGS BECAUSE WE

BRODERICK
DIDNT HAVE THINGS WE WERE TREATING THE PATIENTS THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW THE POLICE
OFFICERS STARTED RUNNING UP THE STREET AND THEY SAID WEVE GOT TO GET OUT OF HERE WEVE GOT TO GET OUT OF HERE ITS GOING TO BLOW THERE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE GAS LEAK
WE JUST THREW EVERYBODY IN THE AMBULANCE JUST THREW EVERYBODY IN THE BUS THE VOLUNTEERS THE PEOPLE THAT WERE SO WILLING
HAD GENTLEMAN COME UP TO ME AND SAY HAVE QENTLEMAN STUCK IN THE ELEVATOR ON THE FIFTH FLOOR RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET SAID SIR CANT DO ANYTHING IM BUSY TELL POLICE OFFICER
RIGHT
IM REALLY BUSY CANT DO IT HE SAID OKAY NO PROBLEM DONT KNOW WHERE HE
WENT WE JUST THREW EVERYBODY IN THE AMBULANCE AND JUST RACED UP ABOUT THREE BLOCKS THERE WAS
STAGING AREA THERE DONT KNOW WHETHER IT WAS AGAIN EVERYTHING WAS GOING SO FAST
LIEUTENANT REMZ WAS THERE LIEUTENANT MARIA SANTAROMITA KNOW THESE PEOPLE FROM

BRODERICK 10
WORKING AT WOODHALL HOSPITAL MANY YEARS AGO THEY ARE LIEUTENANTS NOW TOLD THEM WHAT WE
HAD AND THEY SAID NO PROBLEM THEN SAID WE HAD NUMEROUS BACK BOARDS BECAUSE WE FOUND VEHICLE UNMANNED SO WE TOOK THEIR EQUIPMENT SO WE COULD BE PREPARED WE DIDNT KNOW WHAT ELSE WAS GOING TO HAPPEN
THINK WHAT HAPPENED WAS WHEN WE LEFT WEST STREET AND VESEY ASSUME THAT IS WHEN THE
SECOND PLANE HIT THE TOWER WAS TOLD THAT LATER ON THE SECOND PLANE HIT THE TOWER AND SAW IT ON TV FOR THE PEOPLE WITH CAMERAS
FROM THERE ON THEN WE WENT TO CHELSEA PIER AND WE SAT THERE FOR TWO HOURS WAS GETTING BORED IM HERE TO DO WHAT IM SUPPOSED TO DO DONT WANT TO GET HURT BUT IM HERE TO HELP
THEN FROM THERE WE LEFT AND WE WOUND UP AT NORTH MOORE AND GREENWICH WHERE WE ASSISTED LIEUTENANT DAVE
RESTUCCIO
MY PARTN MIK WAS HIS ASSISTANT GETTING THE PAPERWORK AGAIN WHAT
WERE TAUGHT IN EMS IS WHEN YOURE THE DRIVER OF

BRODERICK 11
THE VEHICLE YOURE TO MAINTAIN YOUR VEHICLE SO NO ONE WILL STEAL IT SO STAYED WITH MY VEHICLE
WHEN WE WERE THERE SOME KIDS WE DIDNT KNOW THEY WERE KIDS AT THE TIME STARTED
THROWING SOMETHING FROM THE ROOF OF THE BUILDING OFF OF AND IT WAS HITTING THE GROUND HARD
EVERYBODY STARTED RUNNING STARTED PANICKING
THE POLICE WENT RUNNING IN WITH THEIR GUNS OUT
THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW THEY HAD TONS IM EXAGGERATING BUT WE HAD LIKE DOZEN COPS IN RIOT QEAR STANDINQ IN FRONT OF US
THEN GENTLEMAN WAS TRYING TO GET BY WITH BIKE AND THE POLICE OFFICER STARTED
GETTING YOU COULD TELL HE WAS THERE HE HAD DUST ALL OVER HIM HE WAS DRAINED THE GUY WAS
PUSHING THE COP WAS GETTING ANNOYED
ANYWAY FROM THERE ON WE JUST SAT AT
NORTH MOORE AND GREENWICH SAW BUILDING SEVEN
GO DOWN SAW IT
COUPLE BLOCKS AWAY
JUST SAT THERE TILL
1030 AT NIGHT AND
WATCHED EVERYBODY ELSE GOING INTO WHAT THEY CALL GROUND ZERO NOW WAS LIKE WHAT ARE WE DOING
ACTUALLY GO DOWN IT WAS FROM US FROM THERE ON WE
JUST SAT THERE UNTIL DIDNT ANYTHING JUST

BRODERICK 12
HERE WANT TO GO WANT TO GET IN THERE
WANT TO AT LEAST HELP DO SOMETHING THATS WHAT
IM TRAINED FOR
FROM THERE ON AGAIN FROM 200 IN THE
AFTERNOON TO 1030 AT NIGHT WE JUST SAT AT NORTH MOORE AND GREENWICH OF COURSE AT 100 IN THE
AFTERNOON FINALLY GOT CHANCE TO PHONE MY FOLKS TO LET THEM KNOW WAS FINE OF COURSE MY
HOUSE PHONE WAS BUSY
CALLED MY FATHER AT WORK WHO IS NOW
SECURITY OFFICER IN THE MARRIOTT ON 48TH AND
LEXINGTON SO HE WAS VERY HAPPY TO HEAR MY VOICE HE SAID FIGURED YOUD BE THERE SAID
JUST WANT TO LET YOU KNOW IM ALIVE IM OKAY
SAID IT WAS REALLY BAD IT WAS THE WORST IVE
SEEN AND IVE SEEN LOT IN 22 YEARS GOING ON 22 YEARS THIS IS THE WORST OF MY CAREER THAT IVE EVER SEEN IT BLEW ME AWAY
ONLY WENT DOWN THERE TWICE WENT DOWN THERE THE DAY IT HAPPENED AND JUST ABOUT
TWO WEEKS AGO WAS DOWN AT GROUND ZERO WE DID
SCX
REALLY WAS NOTHING COULD DO AFTER THAT THE NEXT DAY ALL DID WAS COME TO THE STATION AND
FAMILY
HAD BACK TH

BRODERICK 13
CLEAN THE VEHICLES TO GET THEM ALL READY THAT WERE DOWN THERE
SO AGAIN WE GOT ASSIGNED TO GO DOWN THERE WAS SAYING DONT WANT TO GO DOWN
THERE NO MORE IT TOOK ME TWO WEEKS JUST TO GET OVER WHAT SAW THE FIRST DAY SO ALL RIGHT WE GO TO GROUND ZERO NO PROBLEM WE GO TO
STAGING THEY TOLD US WERE GOING TO BE GOING ON THE BOAT SAID OH GREAT IM REAL BOAT LOVER AM
THEY WERE VERY NICE COULDNT
BELIEVE THE POLITENESS THEY WERE SO NICETHE STATE TROOPERS THERE WHICH WAS SCARY WHEN THEYRE WEARING THEIR DARK SUNGLASSES
OKAY WE DID OUR FIRST FAMILY ESCORT
ON THE BOAT WHICH WASNT TOO BAD THAT WAS MY FIRST TIME DOWN SINCE THAT DAY AND COULD NOT
BELIEVE THE DEVASTATION THAT SAW THE HOLE SO WE DID ONE TRIP ONE WOMAN GOT
NERVOUS SHE WAS CRYING BRITISH WOMAN
FAMILY MEMBER THINK HER HUSBAND WAS IN THERE
SC
HER BACK TO THE BOAT AND STAYED WITH HER WITH THE POLICE OFFICERS GUARDING US LIKE WE WERE THE
AND
AN

BRODERICK 14
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES REALLY UNBELIEVABLE
THE GUY THE CORRECTION OFFICER HE WAS EXCELLENT HE HELPED US OUT GREAT WITH TAKING
OUR EQUIPMENT AND PUTTING IT ON THE CAR FOR US FOLLOWING US WHEREVER WE WENT HE SAID WE ARE HERE FOR YOU SAID GREAT THANK YOU
SECOND TRIP NO PROBLEM PEOPLE WERE UPSET AS USUAL BUT VERY NICE THEY WERE THANKING US
THE THIRD TRIP WE WENT TO QROUND ZERO
MY PARTNER SAYS TO ME LOOK SEE PICTURE OF PARAMEDIC ON HER BLOUSE SAID LET ME GO LOOK IM CURIOUS GO LOOK WHEN SOMEBODY
SAYS SOMETHING TO YOU AT THE SAME TIME THE NAME SAID CARLOS SHE SAID AT THE SAME TIME IT WAS
HIS MOTHER SHE SAID YOU KNOW CARLOS SAID CARLOS USED TO WORK WITH HIM IN
WOODHULL
IT WAS FUNNY RAN INTO HIM AUGUST
5TH KNOW THE DATE WELL BECAUSE RAN MY
SIST INT TH
SURGERY AND HE KNEW MY SISTER THEY WERE
TALKING ACTUALLY THE LAST TIME SAW CARLOS WAS

BRODERICK 15
AUGUST 5TH
ANYWAY MET HIS WIFE VERY NICE GIRL
HEARD THE STORY THAT HE WENT THERE TO GET HER OUT AND SHE WAS OUT ALREADY AND THERE WAS NO WAY THEY COULD REACH EACH OTHER IT BLEW ME AWAY
IT BLEW ME AWAY AGAIN WAS DEALING WITH IT
BUT WHEN IT COMES CLOSE TO HOME LIKE
ELSE THATS INVOLVED IN THE SITUATION
STAYED WITH THEM STAYED WITH THEM THROUGH THE WHOLE TOUR EVEN TOLD THE
LIEUTENANT THE POLICE OFFICER THAT WAS INVOLVED
WITH THE JOB OF ESCORTING THE FAMILIES SAID IM STAYING WITH THEM SHE SAID NO PROBLEM
STAYED WITH HER CRYING ON ME THATS WHAT BLEW
ME AWAY THINK THE ONLY THING KEPT THINKING OF IS THAT COULD HAVE BEEN ME THAT DAY AND WAS HOPING THAT SOMEBODY WOULD BE DOING THAT FOR MY MOTHER
THEN WHEN WE WERE UP ON THE PODIUM
TH TH START SH PICTUR TW MINUT BEFORE HE WAS MISSING IT JUST BLEW ME AWAY IT
TORE ME APART IT REALLY DID
EVERYBODY

BRODERICK 16
WE ESCORTED THEM BACK TO THE BOAT WE EVEN ESCORTED THEM BACK TO THE STAGING AREA THE
POLICE OFFICER THAT WAS INVOLVED WITH THE FAMILY ESCORT THING SAID THEY COULDNT BELIEVE HOW GREAT
WE WERE
SO WE GOT BACK TO THE STATION AND
HEARD THE PHONE RING AND LIEUTENANT GIBLIN WAS ON
THE PHONE AND HE SAID THEYRE STANDING IN FRONT OF US SAID OH WHAT DO WE DO NOW
THOUGHT WE WERE IN TROUBLE HE SAID NO THAT WAS THE MAYORS OFFICE CALLED OEM OEM CALLED
EMS AND THEY WANT YOU GUYS BACK TOMORROW BECAUSE THEY SAID YOU DID AN EXCELLENT JOB SAID WELL IM NOT GOING BACK CANT
IT BLEW ME AWAY AS MATTER OF FACT DIDNT COME TO WORK THE NEXT DAY TOOK THE
DAY OFF NO DID COME TO WORK IM SORRY WORKED WITH SOMEBODY ELSE COULDNT TAKE IT
IT JUST BLEW ME IM STRONG BUT IT CAUGHT
THATS ABOUT IT DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE TO TELL YOU AGAIN IT WAS THE WORST THING

BRODERICK 17
EVER SEEN IN MY WHOLE CAREER AND HOPEFULLY EVER WILL
AGAIN IVE SEEN PEOPLE DECAPITATED
IVE SEEN PEOPLE DRAGGED BY TRACTOR TRAILERS AND IT NEVER BOTHERED ME NOW GUESS MAYBE BECAUSE
IM GETTING OLDER OR ITS JUST THAT IVE SEEN SO
MUCH THAT ITS
BUT STILL LOVE MY JOB STILL LIKE
TAKING CARE OF PEOPLE REALLY DO LOVE
TAKING CARE OF THE ELDERLY GO THE NINE YARDS DONT CARE HOW LONQ IM ON THE SCENE QO NINE
ENOUGH
YARDS THATS THE WAY AM
DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE TO TELL
YOU THATS ABOUT IT MIKE DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE TO
REALLY UNLESS YOU HAVE QUESTIONS
NO NOTHING ELSE ITS JUST ANYTHING ELSE YOU MIGHT WANT TO SAY IF NOT RICH
JUST FEEL REAL BAD ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT DIED ITS SAD ITS UNFORTUNATE
REALLY THINK THATS WHAT CAUSED THE FIREMEN AND
COPS DID TELL YOU KNEW EIGHT PEOPLE KN FRUR THR FIR
AND THATS REALLY ABOUT IT THE ONLY SEVEN PEOPLE KNEW

BRODERICK 18
THE EMERGENCY SERVICE COPS WERE FROM HERE TRUCK TRUCK IN MANHATTAN ESU
KNEW THE THREE GUYS VERY WELL BECAUSE MY FRIEND IS AN ESU SERGEANT WHICH THANK GOD HE WAS ON VACATION AT HIS NEW HOME IN NEW WINSTER KNOW HIM HE WOULD HAVE BEEN IN IT TOOK HIM TWO AND
HALF HOURS
WHEN SAW HIM THREE WEEKS JUST
SAW HIM LAST WEEK FOR THE FIRST TIME AND WERE LIKE BUDDY BUDDY HE SAID RICH WAS WORRIED ABOUT YOU THOUQHT YOU WERE THERE SAID
WAS SAID YOU KNOW WHAT IM GLAD YOU WERENT THERE IT WAS LIKE KNOW HIM
BUT ANYWAY THE OFFICERS THAT DIED KNEW THEM KNEW THEM PAPPAGEORGE KNEW HIM
FROM HERE DIDNT KNOW HIM THAT WELL BUT KNEW HIM FROM HERE DIDNT KNOW HE WAS
FIREFIGHTER DIDNT KNOW HE GRADUATED AND WENT TO FIREFIGHTER
WHO ELSE OH BUDDY OF MINE
OTHER FRIEND HIS BROTHERS MISSING JUST RAN
INT HIM LAST SATURDAY AND GAV BIG HUG AND HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO GET IN TOUCH WITH ME
FOR THE MEMORIAL SERVICE KNEW HIS BROTHER
MY

BRODERICK 19
CARL HE WAS FIREFIGHTER HES BEEN MISSING HE JUST GOT MARRIED SEVEN MONTHS AGO
SO ALL THESE POOR PEOPLE THAT DIED
ITS JUST SAD WAS HOPING SOMEBODY WOULD TALK TO ME ABOUT THIS BECAUSE IT REALLY HAS BEEN
EATING ME UP IM PRETTY STRONG BUT THIS HAS HIT ME HARD
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT NOBODYS EVER SEEN BEFORE THATS WHAT IT IS
IM GLAD THEYRE DOING WHAT THEYRE DOINQ RIQHT NOW HATE TO SAY IT LIKE THAT BUT
IM GLAD THEYRE DOING WHAT THEYRE DOING WE HAVE TO BECAUSE WERE GOING TO LIVE IN TERROR
FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES
FEEL LIKE IM PRISONER NOW NOT
TOO MUCH BUT JUST BEING STOPPED JUST TO LOOK AT MY ID TO SEE IF IM GETTING ON THE BRIDGE ALL
RIGHT AND LETTING THE TAXICABS GET ON FOR NOTHING THATS WRONG BUT THATS HOW FEEL
THATS REALLY ALL HAVE TO SAY MIKE DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE TO TELL YOU AGAIN UNLESS
HAV LS ASK THATS ABOUT IT RICH
CANT THINK OF ANYTHING ALL CAN

BRODERICK 20
REMEMBER MET SOME NICE PEOPLE OUT OF IT FROM THE VOLUNTEERS THAT WERE HELPING THEY WERE VERY NICE COULDNT BELIEVE THE PEOPLE THAT WANTED
TO HELP THEY WERE
PEOPLE CAME UP THEM WAS LOST
UNBELIEVABLE ACTUALLY 25 DIDNT KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH
IM TRYING TO SAY OKAY YOU
DO THIS YOU DO THAT
ONE WAS VOLUNTEER FIREMAN IM
VOLUNTEER FIREMAN TAKE CARE OF THAT WORLD TRADE CENTER GUY THAT WAS BEFORE THE ST
VINNIE MEDIC CAME LIKE TWO MINUTES BEFORE THEY PULLED IN SAID TAKE CARE IM RUNNING
AROUND DOING THIS DOING THIS HELPING THE COPS GIVING THEM MASKS
MEAN ITS PART OF OUR JOB UNDERSTAND THAT FELT GOOD THAT DID
SOMETHING FELT BAD THAT COULDNT DO MORE SAT AT THAT STAGING AREA ALL NIGHT REALLY
GOT BORED WAS GETTING TIRED JUST STANDING THERE REALLY WISH COULD HAVE DONE MORE BUT
DID WHAT HAD TO DO AND FEEL GOOD ABOUT IT
UNFRRTUNAT IT HAPP WH IT DID THATS ABOUT IT
ALL RIGHT RICH THANK YOU SO MUCH

BRODERICK 21
FOR YOUR INTERVIEW AND YOUR FEELINGS HOPE IT WORKS OUT
MR TAMBASCO THIS INTERVIEW WILL CONCLUDE AT 712 HOURS
File No. 9110158
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
            EMT JONATHAN MORITZ
   Interview Date:  October 25, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
J. MORITZ
2
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today is October 25th, 2001.
I'm Paul Radenberg of the Fire Department, City of New
York.  The time is now 0715 hours.  I am conducting an
interview with...
          EMT MORTIZ:  Jonathan Moritz, M-o-r-i-t-z,
EMT, Battalion 4, Unit 04 Henry, Tour 2, Shield No.
2698.
          MR. RADENBERG:  This interview is being
conducted at EMS Battalion 4 regarding the events of
September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Jonathan, if you'd begin.
     A.   We had just signed on to the unit, we were
heading to our 89 status, and my partner realized he
had forgot a piece of his personal equipment back at
the station.  We immediately turned back around, came
back to the station, retrieved the equipment.  On our
way back to our 89 status, we reported to the corner of
Clinton Street and Madison Street.  We were approached
by about upwards of 75 to 100 people pointing and just
extremely hysterical, and when we looked down Madison
Street, it was a straight shot into the World Trade
Center complex and there was a crater taken out of the
upper floors, there was a heavy smoke and fire
condition, debris was still coming down, and with that
J. MORITZ
3
the radio transmissions started to come in from other
units with the priority message.  Being the HAZTAC
unit, we felt we needed to respond in on the scene.  So
we immediately went to the 63 status, tried to advise
the dispatcher as best as possible.  There was a lot of
radio traffic.
          We proceeded down Madison Street to where it
comes into Pearl and then Pearl Street comes down and
around the back side of the World Trade Center on the
east side and turns into I believe it's Water Street.
It runs into Water Street, if I'm not mistaken.  We
were coming across Water Street and I remember there
was a Fire patrol vehicle No. 3 in front of us that we
followed in to the scene.
          When we got down around the ferry terminal,
because we were trying to get into the staging area set
up by the conditions boss, it became apparent that it
was impossible.  Traffic conditions were extremely
tight, there were people everywhere, and we proceeded
north, I believe, the wrong way, if I'm not mistaken,
on Broadway, got up to about -- I want to say Dey
Street or one of the side streets, very small street,
ducked down to Trinity Place and proceeded north on
Trinity Place to Church, and we parked somewhere
J. MORITZ
4
between Dey Street and Fulton Street.  It seemed like
the safest area at the time considering where the
building was, where we had the most amount of
patients.  They were all exiting heading away from the
Trade Center complex.  We tried to get in touch with
our conditions boss to let him know where we were, but
radio traffic and patient care was making that
relatively impossible.
          I remember there were many units on the
scene.  I don't remember who exactly was there.  I
remember we were treating several patients
immediately.  There was a burn patient, a jumper
patient, a lot of trauma.  I had gone back to my unit
to get, I believe, the second oxygen tank or another
piece of my personal protective equipment when we heard
a second explosion, and when we looked up, the second
Trade Center had been hit.  With that, my partner, I
believe, took off running away from the debris north on
Church Street and I took off running down Dey Street
and I was assisting people because it was quite
chaotic.
          We were picking up people who were getting
trampled on Dey Street, or least I was and I believe a
police officer was, and we got halfway in, we stopped,
J. MORITZ
5
and my partner, I believe, was with the unit and he was
down Fulton Street somewhere.  We both -- I think it
was a police officer and I.  I don't remember his name
or his shield -- ran back down the street and with that
the patient count had tripled, if not more.  There were
more people coming up to us, more people injured.
          With that we received a police officer with a
very serious arm injury.  He was almost amputated by a
piece of shrapnel.  With that we also received a burn
patient, a lady who had walked down from the 78th
floor, believe it or not, with third-degree burns head
to toe.  I don't know if I could stand as badly as she
was burned and she was walking.  We had a lady who was
complaining of chest pain and chest discomfort.  Some
vital signs indicated she had some sort of cardiac
event transpiring, and I believe we had one more soft
tissue injury patient.  We proceeded in loading them
up, transporting them, providing the best care
possible.
          I made the decision to go to Cornell
Hospital.  There was a burn center as well as a trauma
center.  It was also not as close to the hospitals that
would have been overrun.  So to try to space out
patients, I took them uptown.  I remember when we got
J. MORITZ
6
to the hospital everybody was on standby and waiting.
We off-loaded our patients.  I transferred care to the
best of my ability.
          I was monitoring the radio and they said that
the No. 2 tower had collapsed.  With that I expedited
my ER time tenfold.  I started heading back down the
FDR towards the scene when I heard the second tower had
collapsed.
     Q.   Do you remember how far down you made it on
the FDR?
     A.   I remember we had just gotten off by the 59th
Street bridge, if I'm not mistaken.  We got onto 59th
Street, right there by the Queensborough Bridge, went
southbound on the FDR.  We were coming down underneath
the underpass right there where you get on the FDR and
you have I believe there's the Hospital for Special
Surgery, if I'm not mistaken, over the top of you at
that particular part.
          When we came up the FDR, all we saw was the
smoke, of course.  We proceeded down the FDR to South
Street.  We got off on South Street and tried to make
it into the -- one staging area we had heard was in
Battery Park and that's where we were heading for.
          We got to the Brooklyn Bridge.  It was myself
J. MORITZ
7
and two other units.  I think they were just skeleton
units thrown together when this all transpired from our
station.  We got as far as the Brooklyn Bridge and we
were enveloped in the cloud of settling debris.
          With that they transmitted the message that
everybody was going to report to Chelsea Piers.  We
turned our vehicles around and we proceeded back
northbound on the FDR to 34th or 42nd Street, crossed
town and staged until later that evening, when we were
(inaudible).
     Q.   When you got up to Fulton and Church, do you
recall who else was there?
     A.   I don't.  I don't recall.  There were so many
units there that, in so short amount of time that, you
know, you were seeing people.  As far as people who are
missing?  Everybody that I saw at the scene I've seen
later on.  I saw a Cabrini crew that I've worked with
later in days transpiring after this.  We really
weren't on scene as long as we should have been.  We
got overwhelmed with patients immediately and we
transported before we could really get into the
operation of the MCI.
     Q.   Any thoughts or comments that you'd like to
add, like odd event that stands out in your mind?
8
airplanes crashing into them.
          MR. RADENBERG:  Okay.  The time is now 0724
and the interview is concluded.
J. MORITZ
A.   No.
Q.   Opinions?
A.   You run very fast when buildings have
File No. 9110159
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
            EMT PETER HAYDEN
   Interview Date:  October 25, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
P. HAYDEN
2
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today is October 25th, 2001.
I'm Paul Radenberg of the Fire Department of the City
of New York.  The time is now 0541 hours.  I'm
conducting an interview with...
          EMT HAYDEN:  Peter Hayden, EMT, Battalion 4.
          MR. RADENBERG:  This interview is being
conducted at EMS Battalion 4 regarding the events of
the morning of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Peter, if you'd begin with when you found out
about the assignment.
     A.   I had a day off and my brother had woke me up
to show me the news, and I had saw the news and what
had happened and right away I grabbed my equipment, got
dressed and went in to work.  I got into Manhattan
about 9:30 and I was looking for the EMS command post,
which I was told was on West and Chambers.  While I was
walking over there, World Trade 2 began to come down,
and I ran away from the scene and got caught in the
dust cloud that put a darkness over us and it was hard
to breathe.  We helped people into buildings, after
that onto buses down to Battery Park, and there was
nothing really to do for the patient except get them
water.  So we were just retrieving water for them.
          A half hour later, a couple of EMTs and I
P. HAYDEN
3
decided to go back and help some more people back into
the buildings of the New York Downtown Athletic Club,
and people started running again because 1 World Trade
began to come down.  So we ran again and the same thing
happened, darkness, cloud of smoke, people were having
trouble breathing, get them inside, onto buses, putting
them down to Battery Park.  From there we just kept
getting water.
          From there I walked up Albany and I ran into
another off-duty EMT from this battalion.  I'm not sure
of his name.  What we did was we heard over the radio
that there was staging down at Battery Park, so we had
emptied a couple of ambulances of the equipment and put
them into one ambulance and drove it over to Battery
Park.  I stayed there for a few hours and just waited
and we were giving water to firefighters and police
officers that had ventured over, and that was basically
my role for the day.
     Q.   How did you get into Manhattan?
     A.   I had driven to the tunnel, the Battery Park
Tunnel.  A lot of us left personal cars and I pulled
over and I hopped into a Suburban, a Fire Department
vehicle, and they had transported me through.
     Q.   Do you remember the number of the vehicle or
P. HAYDEN
anything like that?
     A.   No, I don't.
4
     Q.   Did it have a battalion number on the side?
     A.   No, I don't remember.
     Q.   But it wasn't an EMS Suburban?
     A.   No, it was Fire Department.
     Q.   You came through the Battery.  How far up
towards the Trade Center, if you remember, did you get
when you got out of the Suburban?
     A.   I think they let us off at West Street and
Albany.
     Q.   West Street and Albany.  Okay.
          You said you'd heard command was up on West
and Chambers?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Were you coming straight up the West Side
Highway?
A. Yes.
     Q.   While you were on the West Side Highway, do
you remember approximately where you were when the
first tower came down?
     A.   I was in between Albany and Cedar.  I hadn't
gone very far because I was asking around where the
staging area was.
P. HAYDEN
5
     Q.   Right.
     A.   I didn't see any other EMS personnel around.
     Q.   When the first tower came down, do you
remember where you went?
     A.   I ran straight south on West Street, and I
guess I had reached about a block, I guess around
Carlisle Street, whatever this is, and I had jumped
next to a divider.  I made it to the Downtown Athletic
Club, where there were dozens upon dozens of people
with several problems just trying to breathe.  The most
we could do for them, because nobody really had tech
bags with them, was just get them water and we were
just handing out bottles of water and that was the most
we could do for these people.
     Q.   When you came back up towards the site, you
said you had basically stripped down a couple of
ambulances to get one stocked?
     A.   Right.
     Q.   Do you remember where that was?
     A.   No, I'm not exactly sure where that was, but
it was maybe between Washington and Greenwich.  It was
outside of a Chase Manhattan Bank.  There were a few
abandoned ambulances and they were locked.  So I saw
somebody breaking into the ambulance.  He happened to
P. HAYDEN
6
be an EMS personnel from this battalion.  He said, help
me, we'll get all the equipment onto this bus, there's
keys in it, and we'll take it over to Battery Park
because we heard over the radio that there was staging
down there.  So that's what we did.
     Q.   Do you remember what vehicle number it was,
by chance?
     A.   I don't remember, no.
     Q.   With those vehicles, it was just you and the
other EMT?
     A.   And there was a guy from New Jersey who said
he was an EMT from over there and he helped us.
     Q.   Do you remember who the other EMT was from
the battalion?
     A.   His first name is Walter.
     Q.   Walter.  Do you know his last name?
     A.   No.
     Q.   When you came back, you got that ambulance
down there, and was it while you were down at Battery
Park that the second tower came down?
     A.   No.  I had taken the ambulance after the
second tower came down.
     Q.   After the second tower came down.  Do you
remember where you were when the second tower came
P. HAYDEN
7
down?
     A.   I was around the same area.
     Q.   Still in the same area?  Okay.  Do you recall
seeing any other EMS officers?
     A.   Not officers.
     Q.   Or EMS personnel --
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   -- that you know the names of?
     A.   No, I don't know their names.  They weren't
from this battalion, I know that.  We all started
helping.  There was a bus and we were helping civilians
get onto the bus.
     Q.   An ambulance or a city bus?
     A.   It was a city bus.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   We were getting people on there so they could
transport them down to the ferries.
     Q.   All at that point minor injuries?
     A.   Yes.  I didn't see any injuries.
     Q.   Nothing?
     A.   Just people complaining, you know, thirsty
from dust that they were breathing in.
     Q.   Does anything anything stand out in your mind
as just an odd event or something like that that sticks
P. HAYDEN
8
in your head from that day or any comments or opinions
you'd like to add about it?
     A.   No.  I mean, I didn't even actually get to
look at the towers collapsing because I pretty much
heard them, looked up, saw it and turned around and
ran, and it was just get people water and get them on
the bus and get them out of there.
     Q.   Okay.  That's pretty much it, unless there's
something else you'd like to add.
     A.   I spent the rest of the day looking for my
father, who is a fireman.
     Q.   Did you find him?
     A.   Yes.
          MR. RADENBERG:  Thank you, Peter.
          EMT HAYDEN:  Thank you.
          MR. RADENBERG:  The time is now 0549 hours
and the interview is concluded.
PERUGGIA
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
    EMS DIVISION CHIEF JOHN PERUGGIA
   Interview Date:  October 25, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
File No. 9110160
J. PERUGGIA
2
          MR. CASTORINA:  Today is October 25, 2001.
     I'm Ron Castorina conducting an interview.  The
     time now is 0835 hours.  Your name?
          MR. McCOURT:  Tom McCourt.
          MR. CASTORINA:  Also sitting here on the
     interview.
     Q.   Your name sir?
     A.   John PERUGGIA.
     Q.   What is your rank and title?
     A.   EMS Division Chief, in charge of planning for
the Chief of Department's office.
     Q.   Can you tell me on September 11, 2001 what
took place that day?
     A.   At approximately 8:50 in the morning I was on
my way in to work in my assigned Department vehicle.
At that point in time I was on the Staten Island
Expressway, just before the Verrazano Bridge.  I
received a telephone call from one of my staff people,
EMT Richard Zarrillo, on the Department cell phone.  He
indicated to me that a plane had just crashed into the
World Trade Center.  The Chief was leaving the
building.  Chief Nigro, my immediate boss, was leaving
the building, along with Chief Ganci and he asked me
for some direction.  I told him and told him to tell
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3
the rest of the staff that was in headquarters, just to
stand fast.  My ETA was approximately 10 to 15 minutes
and that we would just wait a little bit and see.
          Shortly thereafter, maybe a few minutes, I
was on the Verrazano Bridge approaching mid span.  I
was able to see visually the World Trade Center and the
extent of the damage and fire coming from the tower,
which was struck.  At that point I realized that it
wasn't maybe just a small private aircraft that may
have struck the building, but something much more
significant and this had the potential to be a
catastrophic type incident.
          Being familiar with the World Trade Center
complex and the extent of chaos that could occur during
a tragedy, as I was present shortly after the bombing
in 1993, I called EMT Zarrillo back on his cell phone.
I directed him to round up the rest of the staff, which
consisted of a Captain and two Lieutenants, Captain
Abdo Nahmod, Lieutenant John Nevins and Lieutenant Brad
Mann and tell them to start making their way over to
the World Trade Center.  Whatever it was that hit the
building from what I was seeing at my location, I knew
that their assistance would be needed.
          At that point I hung up the phone, put my
J. PERUGGIA
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emergency lights on the vehicle, got behind an
ambulance or between an ambulance and a police car and
our entire little package was now en route to the
incident.
          Moments later I got a notification on my
Department pager to call the fire operations center.  I
immediately called them.  They advised me that the
Office of Emergency Management had been activated.  I
am the person in operations who is responsible for
staffing OEM or the Police Department's command and
control center.  I told them that I would respond in.
I gave them directions to notify the fire First
Division to have them start out a fire rep.  I also
asked them to page Captain Nahmod and EMT Zarrillo and
have them redirect themselves to OEM.
          I pulled my car over to the side, when I got
off the Verrazano Bridge.  I grabbed my Department
radio from the trunk, turned it on to the frequency and
advised the dispatcher that I was responding.  I
continued then in on my response.  As I was passing
through the Battery Tunnel, probably around midway
through the Battery Tunnel, I heard the report come
over the radio that a second plane had struck the
second tower.  At that point I realized to myself that
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5
this wasn't just an accident, but more than likely some
sort of terrorist event.
          I came out of the Battery Tunnel and as soon
as I came out, I parked my car immediately on the
western side of northbound West Street between Rector
and West.  I'm going to mark that on the map with a
number one.  I put my boots on.  I put my EMS safety
coat on, my helmet, grabbed the radio and a pad and
began to walk my way up West Street.  My initial intent
was to pass through the site, make contact with the
Chief at the command post and advise them that I was en
route to 7 World Trade Center, the Office of Emergency
Management, to provide staffing, as it was now
activated.
     Q.   As you were walking into the scene, the
second plane had just hit --
     A.   Just moments.
     Q.   What were you observing?
     A.   It was very chaotic on the street.  There
were lots of people running around.  There was heavy
fire and smoke emanating from both towers in the World
Trade Center, the upper floors.  As I walked up the
street, I was being passed by police and firefighters
heading in both directions, some towards the site and
J. PERUGGIA
6
some away from the site.  I passed over some pieces of
what appeared to be aircraft wreckage, fuselage,
whatever, some body parts and bodies in various states,
either people from the building or the airplanes.  You
couldn't tell.  They weren't intact.
          As I approached Albany Street, I crossed over
to the southbound side of West Street because there was
debris coming down from the building, people were
running from the building and also it was very
dangerous.  So for my own safety I crossed on to that
side and proceeded to walk northbound on West Street.
As I made it to in front of what would be 1 World Trade
Center, I'm going to mark that number 2 on the map,
maybe just south of the north bridge, there was the
inter-agency command post or at least the Fire
Department command post.  I saw Chief Ganci, I saw --
     Q.   Inside the lobby?
     A.   No, this was on the southbound side of West
Street, you know, in front of like the World Financial
Center, across the street from the building.  I saw
Chief Ganci, I saw Chief Nigro.  There were a number of
other people.  I really wasn't paying attention.  I
made a verbal contact with Chief Ganci and Chief
Nigro.  I advised them that I was en route to 7 World
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Trade.  OEM was active.  I had already given directions
to two of the staff to respond there, as well as a
representative from the fire First Division.
          I told them that if any of them had
appropriate protective gear with them, once we got
settled, I would release as many people from there as
necessary to maybe help support the operations.  We
didn't need lots of stuff up there.
          At that point I made contact with Captain
James Yakimovich.  He's a fire Captain who was detailed
to headquarters with us for a little while.  He was on
a special assignment.  He was in personnel on
Washington Street.  He was writing the fire
Lieutenant's exam or whatever.  He was in civilian
clothes.  He came out to the site when he heard what
happened.  He has experience at staffing OEM.  I have
used him on a number of occasions.  I said Jimmy, you
don't have gear with you.  Why don't you come with me
to OEM and if the First Division rep has gear we will
release them.
          So both of us were preparing then to leave
the command post and make our way northbound on West
Street to Vesey and then we would go to OEM.  At that
point Chief Ganci placed his hand on my shoulder and
J. PERUGGIA
8
told me that I should be careful walking over there
because there was stuff falling off the building.  I
told him not to worry about it.  I was a big boy.
          I reached 7 World Trade Center.  We walked
into the lobby and we were going up the escalators to
the main level.  I checked in at the security desk.  As
we reached the top of the escalators, there were lots
of people running down the escalator on the promenade.
I spoke to one of the Deputy Directors and as I was
speaking with him, I believe it was Deputy Director
Rotanz, who is a Fire Department Captain on detail over
there, Captain Nahmod and EMT Zarrillo approached as
well.  They had indicated that the building was being
evacuated.
          I questioned as to what the nature of the
evacuation was.  I was told that it was not because of
what was occurring across the street.  No one feared
that the building was in any danger as a result of two
airplane attacks and subsequent fires, but that there
were reports of a third plane that had been hijacked.
It was unidentified, the location, and they thought it
may be coming in for an additional strike.  Therefore,
they were evacuating the building.
          We proceeded down to the lobby where the
J. PERUGGIA
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various agency representatives were present.  We
collectively started to set up in the lobby and try to
think of strategies to where we could move the
inter-agency cooperation effort.
          At that point, I also had a face to face
discussion with Battalion Chief Mike Maggio from the
First Battalion.  He was the person who was sent up to
be the rep at OEM.  Mike is someone who assists us on
lots of our event planning.  He was detailed there.  He
didn't have any gear with him.  He was a light duty
Chief on administrative assignment there.  So I told
Captain Yakimovich that we are not going to send a
Chief back.  At that point he indicated that he was
going to run over to 10 and 10 and secure gear and then
report back to the command post and assist the Chief
there.  I told him that would be fine.  I didn't need a
lot of people inside.  They needed more help outside.
          As we were having discussions in the lobby as
to what to do with OEM, a number of people came in the
lobby as patients.  Captain Nahmod and EMT Zarrillo
started to look at them, put them off to the side and
talk to them.  At that point I stepped outside.  I was
going to request some EMS resources and I had face to
face contact with Captain Mark Stone of the EMS 8
J. PERUGGIA
10
Battalion.
     Q.   What kind of patients were you seeing?
     A.   There was two or three people who had smoke
inhalation.  There was another person who was bleeding
significantly from his lower leg and unable to stand.
He was trying to limp and crawl.
     Q.   They came from outside?
     A.   Yes.  Later it was determined that he had a
fracture of his leg, so we put him on a chair and the
other people, we put them off to the side.  I ran into
Captain Stone.  He had, I believe it was two EMTs with
him.  I told him that -- he was in his full gear and
radio.  I directed him to respond over, report into the
EMS command post and I told him that I put Captain
Nahmod in charge of whatever little treatment sector
that we would establish here in the lobby.
     Q.   Where was the EMS command post?
     A.   I don't know where the EMS command post was
at that time.  Again I didn't hear much.  There was
lots of stuff going on the radio.  My mission at that
time was not that of an EMS Chief responding to the
operation.  My mission was, as the Chief of Planning
for the Fire Department, to respond in to handle the
agency liaison stuff.
J. PERUGGIA
11
          I told Captain Stone he could respond over to
the EMS command post so he could take a field
assignment or whatever, since he was appropriately
dressed.  EMT Zarrillo and Captain Nahmod responded
from headquarters without turnout gear, helmets or --
EMT Zarrillo had his helmet with him.  So Captain Abdo
Nahmod established a treatment center.  I requested
over the Citywide radio for two BLS units to respond to
my location at 7 World Trade Center where we
established treatment.
          At that point I continued to liaison with my
counterparts over at OEM.  A short while later, just
maybe a few moments, Dr. Asaeda, Office of Medical
Affairs, and the EMT or paramedic that was with him,
showed up.  I told him we were seeing a number of
people.  In other words, more than 3 at that point in
time, but again I wasn't directly involved, so I
couldn't tell you the number.  He said fine.  He said
he would stay over at our location and work with us
there.  We were in close proximity to the building.  If
you are familiar, I'll mark it with number 3 on the
map, in front of 7 World Trade Center.
          Directly across the street there are some
escalators that come down from the promenade.  There is
J. PERUGGIA
12
also an overhead pedestrian walkway that connects the
World Trade Center plaza to the lobby of number 7.
There was people coming down both exits.  So it was a
good position for us to find people who may require
medical attention and get them into a secured area of
the lobby.  I didn't have any EMS people working out on
Vesey Street proper, because it was not a safe
location.  There was people jumping out of the windows
of the World Trade Center.  We were witnessing that.
There was debris falling down from the north tower and
making its way on to the street and promenade where we
were located.
          A few moments after Dr. Asaeda arrived and
started talking to Captain Nahmod about the patients, a
gentleman from the building identified himself as a
security person or a security director.  He asked me if
there is anything that we needed or he could provide me
with regard to the EMS.  We questioned him as to the
ability to open up the loading bays which are
associated to number 7 World Trade Center.  The
entrances are located directly under the pedestrian
foot bridge.  I figured it was protected there, so
debris wouldn't fall down.  He said he would do that.
I directed Captain Nahmod to move the patients into
J. PERUGGIA
13
that area.  Again, the lobby of number 7 is all glass
facade.  I was concerned that if something should come
off the building, go through the glass or hit the
glass, we would have an extraordinary amount of
patients in addition to what was already being seen.
          Further we took everyone from OEM and moved
them to what would be the most southeasterly corner
inside that first floor entrance of the 7 World Trade.
There is a big granite or marble security desk and we
started to establish around that as we were trying to
figure out what we were going to do.
          At that point again, I went out front to see
what was going on and where the ambulances I had
requested were.  I had a face to face with Fire
Commissioner Thomas Von Essen.  He was there with his
driver.  He was wearing his protective gear and his
helmet.  He questioned me as to -- I told him I was
there for OEM, operating in the lobby, that the
building was being evacuated and the nature of that.
He indicated if I knew the whereabouts of the Mayor.  I
told him that as I was approaching OEM and coming up
Vesey Street, I saw a large contingency of gentlemen in
suits exiting down Vesey Street proceeding north on
West toward Barclay.  I recognized some of the people
J. PERUGGIA
14
in that group as staff and TAs for the Mayor.  I told
him more than likely that was probably the direction
the Mayor went.
          He asked me what was going on.  I told him
what was going on.  I told him where the command post
was and that Chief Ganci, Chief Nigro and I had just
spoken a few minutes earlier at that location.  He said
okay and he proceeded then westbound on Vesey towards
West.
     Q.   Who was he with, was he with some of his
aides?
     A.   He was with his driver or somebody again, I
don't remember exactly who he was with.  Time
proceeded.  We were listening to the radio for updates
of what was going on.  Our patient count was probably a
half dozen to a dozen at that point.  We had maybe
three or four EMTs working under Captain Nahmod with
Dr. Asaeda.  We had a whole treatment center set up
inside those bays.  They got folding chairs from the
building security.
          They had back boards, they had oxygen.  It
was working out real nice.  Everyone was stable so
there was no rush to start screaming for additional
ambulances.  I felt at that point we were in a fairly
J. PERUGGIA
15
secure location in those bays.  That was one less
concern that I needed to be worried about at that
point.
          Several minutes passed by.  I then
encountered Chief Nigro in front of the building.
     Q.   What building was he in front of?
     A.   In front of 7 World Trade Center.  He
indicated he was in the process of doing a perimeter
survey of the complex to get a good grip on the extent
of damage in the fire.  I guess he would then bring
that back and he and Chief Ganci were going to discuss
strategy.  We spoke for several minutes.  I briefed him
on everything that was going on, where the Fire
Commissioner had gone, that the Mayor was out and the
building was evacuated.  Told him about treatment.
Told him that I was the liaison.  Told him that I would
keep Chief Ganci abreast of any significant information
that was provided.
          He thanked me and told me to be careful.  He
continued westbound on Vesey Street towards Church.  He
continued his perimeter search.  Shortly thereafter, I
noticed three firefighters operating on the southbound
side of Vesey directly underneath the pedestrian
promenade, between the pedestrian bridge and the
J. PERUGGIA
16
escalators.  One of them signaled over to me.  I went
over to talk with them.  I noticed they were without an
officer.  They told me they got separated from their
officer when they were operating up on the plaza.  I
don't recall what company they were from.  I do
remember that at least one, if not two of them, were
probies, by the orange plates on the helmet.
          They indicated that there was lots of people
on the plaza, that they thought were dead and people
were jumping out and said you know, what should we do.
I indicated to them that if people were jumping out,
more than likely they were correct, the patients were
dead.  There was nothing that anybody could do for them
and that in light of what was going on, operating on
the plaza wasn't safe for them.
          I further went on to tell them that since
they were separated from their officer it was probably
a good idea if they were to proceed eastbound on Vesey
towards Church.  There were some several companies, I
noticed, operating up on Church and Vesey.  I told them
they could hook up with one of those companies or
officer.  At least this way they would be with a group,
they would be accounted for.
          They were in the process of securing a
J. PERUGGIA
17
hydrant and then they said they would move on.  At that
point I went back into the building.  I was in a
discussion with Mr. Rotanz and I believe it was a
representative from the Department of Buildings, but
I'm not sure.  Some engineer type person, and several
of us were huddled talking in the lobby and it was
brought to my attention, it was believed that the
structural damage that was suffered to the towers was
quite significant and they were very confident that the
building's stability was compromised and they felt that
the north tower was in danger of a near imminent
collapse.
          I grabbed EMT Zarrillo, I advised him of that
information.  I told him he was to proceed immediately
to the command post where Chief Ganci was located.
Told him where it was across the street from number 1
World Trade Center.  I told him "You see Chief Ganci
and Chief Ganci only.  Provide him with the information
that the building integrity is severely compromised and
they believe the building is in danger of imminent
collapse."  So, he left off in that direction.
     Q.   They felt that just the one building or both
of them?
     A.   The information we got at that time was that
J. PERUGGIA
18
they felt both buildings were significantly damaged,
but they felt that the north tower, which was the first
one to be struck, was going to be in imminent danger of
collapse.  Looking up at it, you could see that, you
could see through the smoke or whatever, that there was
significant structural damage to the exterior of the
building.  Very noticeable.  Now you know, again, this
is not a scene where the thought of both buildings
collapsing ever entered into my mind.
          I was there in 1993, 14 minutes after the
bomb went off.  I operated some 16 hours at the
building and with all the post-incident critiques and
debriefings with various agencies.  We were always told
by everyone, the experts, that these buildings could
withstand direct hits from airplanes.  That's the way
they were designed.  They went through all of this
architectural stuff, way beyond the scope of my
knowledge.
          It was hit by an airplane.  That's okay.
It's made to be hit by an airplane.  I mean I think
everyone may have believed that.  We were all told
years ago it was made to be hit by an airplane.
          Some amount of time passed by, probably not
long, again, I wasn't checking my watch.  Actually we
J. PERUGGIA
19
were just really disgusted, maybe we were going to move
what we were going to do and how we were going to try
to coordinate.  Things were hectic.  We didn't have the
tools that we normally have to communicate with our
agency, you know, cellular phones were not working
properly, radio was very difficult to get through.  I
work for the Chief of the Department, I don't have a
fire ground radio, so I had no direct communications
with my boss at that time, which is one of the reasons
I needed to send EMT Zarrillo with that message, which
I felt was very significant, to the command post.
          Just moments before the south tower collapsed
and, you know, when it happened we didn't know it was
the south tower.  We thought it was the north tower.
There was a reporter of some sort, female with blond
hair and her cameraman, an oriental fellow.  They were
setting up outside 7 World Trade Center, just east of
the pedestrian bridge.  I told them it would probably
be better off to be set up under the bridge.  At least
it was protected.  I was just about to enter a dialogue
with her when I heard a sound I never heard before.  I
looked up and saw this huge cloud.  I told him run.  I
grabbed the female, I threw her through the revolving
doors of number 7.  We were proceeding inside.  She
J. PERUGGIA
20
fell to the ground.  I helped her out, I pushed her
towards the direction of where we were all in the south
corner and there was a little doorway behind that desk
which led into the loading bays.
          Everybody started to run through that.  Never
made it to that door.  The next thing that I remember
was that I was covered in some glass and some debris.
Everything came crashing through the front of number
7.  It was totally pitch black.
     Q.   Were you injured?
     A.   Yes, I saw some stuff had fallen on me.  I
didn't believe that I was injured at that time.  I
discovered later on I was injured.  I had some shards
of glass impaled in my head, but once I was able to get
all this debris and rubble off of me and cover my face
with my jacket so that I could breathe, it was very
thick dust, you couldn't see.  We heard some sounds.
We reached out and felt our way around.  I managed to
find some other people in this lower lobby.  We crawled
over towards the direction where we thought the door
was and as we approached it the door cracked open a
little, so we had the lights from the loading bay.  We
made our way over there.  The loading bay doors were 3
fourths of the way shut when this happened, so they
J. PERUGGIA
21
took a lot of dust in there, but everyone in those bays
was safe and secure.  We had face to face contact with
Chief Maggio and Captain Nahmod.  They told me -- I
said do whatever you need to do, get these people out
of here.  Go, go towards the water.
          They proceeded to evacuate that group along
with some secret service people.
     Q.   How did they get out, did they go out the
loading bay?
     A.   I believe what happened was they opened the
bay and they went out and they proceeded south on
Vesey.  The phone building is the next building
adjacent to the east on Vesey and that had an exterior
scaffolding set up on it and overhead protection.  And
I believe that's the way, speaking to Captain Nahmod
later, that they moved the people.  Again I didn't go
with them.  Myself and Phil Parr, the Battalion Chief
detailed here to headquarters, I don't know how he
ended up.
     Q.   At this point the south tower is down?
     A.   We didn't know that, but it was the south
tower that was down.  Phil Parr, Battalion Chief, again
he had no protective equipment whatever.  I'm not sure
how he ended up there.  I think he was detailed here to
J. PERUGGIA
22
headquarters and he made his way over there.  He used
to be a Deputy Director of OEM.  So he made his way
there.  I didn't initially see him, but when it was all
over, me and Phil found one another.  We grabbed some
hand lights from some Port Authority guys.
     Q.   What did you think had happened?
     A.   I thought that part of the building or the
facade of the building had collapsed.  You know, it was
too dusty to see outside, so we didn't know what
happened, but I knew something real bad happened.  I
knew that everyone that we had in the lobby, or we
thought everyone was accounted for.  Again, there was a
lot of rubble in the lobby, probably a few feet.  The
facade was all broken.  Me and Phil grabbed some hand
lights and the people who were still there at ground
level, we directed them to the door where there were
guys who were going to lead them out.  Some Port
Authority and some secret service, you know, they were
housed at number 7.  Captain Nahmod and Battalion Chief
Maggio, they were going to lead that group of people.
Probably in excess of 30 or 40 people out of the
building.
          Me and Phil then proceeded up the
escalators.  We walked up the escalators with our
J. PERUGGIA
23
lights, even though we couldn't see anything with the
lights that we had acquired.  We reached the top of the
escalators.  We ran into another Port Authority officer
who had a light.  We told him to stand fast at the top
of the escalators and just keep waving his light, you
know, back and forth in a side to side motion, and that
we were going to perform some search of that mezzanine
level, I guess would be best to call it, or concourse
level, whatever.
          You know the level where the foot bridge
connects, whatever.  We found maybe a half dozen or so
people out there.  We told them to cover their heads
and their faces with, you know, their shirts or clothes
or whatever to help them breathe and to walk towards
the Port Authority light.  A few minutes after we were
unable to see --
     Q.   Was that building already evacuated for the
most part?
     A.   When we got there it was in the process of
evacuation, so for the most part, with the exception of
some rescuers that were still upstairs doing
evacuation, it was fairly empty.  We didn't see anybody
else or hear anybody else on that level.  We told the
Port Authority cop that he could make his way down.
J. PERUGGIA
24
Just make sure that everyone else had got out.  He
being most familiar with the building, you know, the
Port Authority complex.
          We made our way to the doors which led to the
pedestrian bridge, both myself and Chief Parr, as I
said, I'm talking about both of us.  We were able to
force the door open and kick some debris out of the
way.  We made it to the overhead walkway and we started
to walk south towards the Trade Center plaza.  It
became a little easier to breathe.  There was still a
tremendous amount of dust cloud in the air.  But, at
least it was open air, you know.
          We looked left and right, could see the
devastation on the street.  We saw a couple of rigs
collapsed and cars and again still not realizing what
the nature was.  We reached the plaza.  We were
underneath.
     Q.   You still couldn't see up if it was the
building?
     A.   Correct, correct.  We were walking underneath
number 6 World Trade Center.  If you have seen the
pictures or are familiar with the way those buildings
come, they come up and then they angle out so there is
like a covered walkway path.  We were there.  We ran
J. PERUGGIA
25
into a few firefighters.  We told them that we were
going to try to make a chain of people and if we found
anybody we would get them out.  There were lots of
bodies on the plaza.  A couple of firefighters and
police officers that we saw in the rubble that we were
able to get to and get out of the rubble and direct
towards the people, they got out.  There were a few
people in the rubble that were dead, both firefighters
and police officers and civilians that we knew we
couldn't do anything for.
     Q.   You had some alive, also?
     A.   Yes, we assisted them out.  There were
pockets of fire everywhere.  At that point I noticed it
was unusually lit in the plaza, considering the event
that happened.  I looked up and saw this big gaping
hole where the south tower used to be.  That's the
first point that I realized that the south tower had
collapsed.  Maybe ten or 15 stories high left of it.
Probably most of it being a pile of rubble.
          The fire was still engaged, lots of smoke
coming out of the north tower.  I was like holy shit, I
can't believe that this happened.  Maybe if I would
have known that I wouldn't have went up on the plaza.
I don't know.
J. PERUGGIA
26
          At that point I was up there with Phil.  We
were just searching for people.  As we reached the
corner of the 6 World Trade Center, the customs
building, like in the plaza area when you walk in and
then the building, the corner of it, we turned the
corner and we saw this large mass of people.  We called
out to them.  Phil ran to them.  I rallied some ESU
officers and firefighters who were down near the Vesey
Street side.  Told them we had a bunch of people.  Some
guys should come down.  The rest should be able to
direct them.  We proceeded to evacuate several hundred
civilians.
     Q.   Where were they coming from?
     A.   Most of them were coming -- it appeared they
were coming out of like number 6 onto the plaza, but
some were also coming from number 1 World Trade Center
on the plaza area.  Again, we directed them to cover
their mouths with their clothing.  Some people were
just walking in a daze.  We had to grab them and push
them on their way or rip their shirt and give them
something to cover.  Told them not to look at the
bodies that were there, not to worry about the fires or
people.  Just tried to focus them on getting them to
the corner.  I'm going to mark that number 4 on the
J. PERUGGIA
27
map, so then they could proceed northbound along the
edge of number 6 and then go down the escalators.  We
had some guys posted.  Get them on the escalators and
head them towards City Hall.  Get them out of the
scene.
          We got several hundred people out.  A few
people were obviously injured.  We told them they would
get help when they got downstairs.  Even though I knew
I didn't have anyone down there, I figured at some
point they would run into somebody.  Their injuries
weren't significant enough that they required treatment
nor were we able to provide treatment.  My Department
radio was not working at that time.  It was clogged
with dirt and dust.  I couldn't get it to work so I
couldn't talk to anyone.  I was not able to get through
on my cell phone to anybody either.  So we were sort of
operating independently and our point at that time we
were just to try to evacuate these terrified
individuals.
          There were one or two people who couldn't
walk.  We were able to get some police and firefighters
and take pieces of building debris and make like little
makeshift carry things and they carried some people
off.
J. PERUGGIA
28
          I ran into a former Fire Department employee
who used to work with me, Nick Cagliuso, who used to
work in the Office of Medical Affairs.  He was one of
the people we evacuated.  I didn't have an opportunity
to talk to him.  I think he worked in number 1 World
Trade.  I'm not sure.
          There were some people we saw more towards
the center of the courtyard that appeared to be
trapped.  One of them looked like it may have been an
Emergency Service officer.  We directed two
firefighters and an ESU cop to go and help them.  The
last I saw of them they were in the process of removing
that person from the rubble.  I then ran into James
Basile, EMS 2 Division Chief.  He was at the end of
this group of people.
          He indicated that he was in the lobby of
number one and that there were some people still in the
lobby, that there was a number of fire Chiefs in
there.  His aide was in there and that they were making
their way out another way.  He had made his way out
from this location.  He said you know we should not be
here.  We have to get out of here.  I said there is no
one else here.  Let's do that, but on the way out, I
said we are going through number 7 again.  That's right
J. PERUGGIA
29
on the way there.  I explained to him the story.  I
said I'm sure the dust has settled somewhat.  I just
want to do another visual to make sure everyone that
was with me and that was in that area downstairs was
truly out.
          So we went through the foot bridge again.  At
that point, I got separated from Phil Parr.  Me and Jim
proceeded over the pedestrian bridge back into number
7.
     Q.   How did you get separated?
     A.   I didn't -- I was talking to Jimmy and I saw
Phil head off one direction.  I think he headed down
the escalators more toward Church Street.  I said I'm
going back into number 7.  I was going to head back
towards the command post, knowing that it was on Vesey
Street.  We went into the lobby.  I was upstairs in the
mezzanine lobby and there was no one there.  We even
checked the little snack store there.  Everyone was
out.  No one was hidden behind the security counters.
          We made our way down the escalators, I looked
around the lobby, everyone was out.  Then we went into
the loading bays, which were relatively clear now and
dust free.  We saw all the EMS equipment scattered all
over the place, but there were no signs of any people
J. PERUGGIA
30
in there.  There was no debris in there so I knew that
everyone in there was okay and had safely been
evacuated.
          We walked on out to Vesey Street under the
foot bridge and we continued westbound on Vesey towards
West Street, walking underneath the scaffolding of the
Verizon building.  When we reached the end of the
scaffolding, Jimmy started to continue on to the
command post.  I was talking to a fire officer and I
asked him if he saw a group of people with some EMS
officers.  I was concerned about the location of
Captain Nahmod and that group of people he was
treating.  He said he saw a bunch of people.  He saw
them come out and headed north on West Street.
          At that point, I believe it might have been
Pete Hayden from the First Division that was operating
on that corner with a number of companies.  We had
people hurt, we had people in the rubble.  There were
some ambulance crews that I saw staged on Vesey and
West on the westbound side adjacent to number 3 World
Financial.  I guess I could mark that on your map
number 5.  I saw a Hatzolah ambulance and voluntary
hospital ambulances.  I found two or three ambulance
crews scattered.  We began to grab some of those people
J. PERUGGIA
31
and move them towards the water on Vesey Street.
          I said let's get them and move them with the
help of some firefighters, those injured people we had
moved.  All of their vehicles that were right there on
the corner were rendered useless, as were a number of
fire apparatus.  I know I saw a collapsed unit on the
corner over there that was crushed and dilapidated.
There were some other vehicles over there.
          Again, I couldn't get through on the radio.
I was standing on the corner of Vesey and West.  I was
about to make my way towards the command post.  I
noticed that the north bridge, I believe the north
bridge, was still intact at that point.  Again, you
know, at this point things get a little cloudy.  I was
on Vesey and West.  I looked up, I saw the north tower
fully involved.  I saw number 6 World Trade Center
fully involved with fire.  I started to make my way to
the command post when I heard that horrible sound
again, you know, that whining screeching jet engine.
          I looked up and at that point I knew the
north tower was coming down.  I made an immediate about
face and I started to run as quick as I can.
     Q.   Where were you standing exactly?
     A.   West and Vesey, just south of Vesey Street on
J. PERUGGIA
32
West.  Maybe north of the pedestrian bridge, a couple
of hundred feet north of the pedestrian bridge, right
at the corner.
          I turned around and started to run north on
West Street.  My focus was run as quick as you can.
     Q.   Were you there by yourself at that time?
     A.   I was by myself at this point.  I said this
is it.  Run for your life.
     Q.   Couple of minutes earlier you saw Chief
Hayden.  Was anybody else there when you saw him?
     A.   Couple of fire officers.
     Q.   No other high ranking people?
     A.   No, because everyone else, when I last saw
them was still down at the command post, that's the
direction I was headed.  I was concerned about
Zarrillo, Ganci and all those people, but at this point
I turned off and I ran.  My focus was that area two
feet wide in front of me and 6 feet down.  Nothing in
my way.  Nothing I'm going to trip over and run as fast
as I can.
          I made it maybe a couple of hundred feet and
I heard someone scream out, Chief, Chief.  I turned my
head to the left, I saw a firefighter, he was signaling
me over.  There was an engine and a ladder parked on
J. PERUGGIA
33
the southbound lanes of West Street adjacent to the
curb; maybe midway, probably around Barclay Street,
midway between Vesey and Murray on that side.  Probably
around Barclay Street.  So I ran in his direction.
There was an opening maybe a foot and a half wide
between the two apparatus.  He pushed me in.  He was
behind me.  He said, "We got to get under, we got to
get under.  Quick, we don't have time."  He threw me to
the floor, began to crawl under the rear, from under
the rear step of the engine.  I believe it was 23, but
it could have been 22, the apparatus.
          Then I saw him dive to make his way
underneath the rear of the ladder, at which point
everything went black.  The thunderous roar continued,
for what seemed like five minutes, but it was probably
just seconds.  I was unable to breathe.  I was unable
to see.  The dust was in my eyes, I had them shut.  I
couldn't breathe, I took my helmet, pulled it over my
face to give me some confined breathing space.
     Q.   Were you under the engine?
     A.   I was up under the rear step of the engine,
when I heard screaming from the direction of where the
firefighter was.  I heard some other muffled sounds and
then everything was just still and quiet.  At that
J. PERUGGIA
34
point I realized I was trapped under the engine.  I
didn't think that I would ever get out.  I thought that
I was dead.  I thought I was buried under a hundred
stories of rubble under some fire truck.
          I was able to move my right leg, but I was
unable to move my left leg.  I felt a lot of weight on
it and I couldn't really move much.  All the dirt and
dust came under, debris, so I was sort of pinned like
this with the helmet.  I tried to control my
breathing.  All sorts of things go through your head at
that point.
          Several minutes went by.  Again, I couldn't
tell you how long.  I felt some tugging on my leg.
Next thing I know, I was pulled out from under the rig,
it was a firefighter and an ESU cop.  He said you all
right, you all right.  I said "I'm okay, I'm okay, how
about you guys, are you okay? "  I couldn't really see
or breathe and I was choking.  I walked around the side
of the rig and popped the CFR compartment.  It was open
and I just sort of felt in there.  I felt some sterile
water bottles.  I threw it on my face.  Threw a couple
of swigs to spit out all the dirt and then I realized I
was okay.
          I realized that, I looked down and saw the
J. PERUGGIA
35
devastation, the pedestrian bridge collapsed, the north
tower collapsed, people just all over the place.
     Q.   How about the other firefighter?
     A.   We looked under the truck.  There was a lot
of rubble under there.  We didn't see him.  We didn't
see any sign of him.  So I don't know if he was all the
way under buried.  I did read a report later that they
found some guys under trucks that were dead.  I don't
know if that was him or not.
          I started to walk north towards Murray Street
and then I said no, let me turn around and head back to
the command post.
          MR. CASTORINA:  Before you go any further,
     why don't we switch sides on the tape before it
     stops running.  It's almost over.  Why don't we
     just flip sides.
          Time is now 9:15.  This is side two.  The
     interview continues with Chief John PERUGGIA.
     A.   So, I got out of there, cleaned up my face.
I was able to see and breathe.  I offered water to a
number of firefighters and police officers that were in
the area.  They all took some of the water and cleaned
off their face a little.  I went back to the CFR
compartment, grabbed some more water.  I threw it to
J. PERUGGIA
36
the guys, grabbed a pair of gloves for my hands and
also grabbed some 6 inch cling, wrapped it around my
face to give me some breathing protection.
          I started to walk north towards Murray
Street, maybe ten or 20 steps.  I said, you know, let
me go back to the command post instead of wandering
around helplessly.  I'm sure that things are chaotic
now.  I made the turn, I started to walk south towards
Vesey Street and saw that --
     Q.   How heavy was the rubble at that point, in
that location?
     A.   It was pretty significant.  Actually it was
like the more south I proceeded, the more and more
rubble there was.  Huge amount of fire, smoke, saw the
pedestrian bridge collapse and at that point I had no
idea where the command post now was.  If there even was
a command post.  I turned around and started to walk
north.  I noticed, on the northbound direction of West
Street, a Suburban.  It was running because the lights
were on, couple of hundred feet north of where I was.
So, I figured let me make my way over there.  Maybe
there are some radios I could use and talk to somebody.
     Q.   At this point the whereabouts of OEM were?
     A.   Everyone was scattered.
J. PERUGGIA
Q.   Last they were by 7?
37
     A.   We were all in there.  I knew that they all
got out.  All the people that were there with us.
     Q.   At this point Chief Ganci, you had no idea --
     A.   I had no idea about Chief Ganci.  No idea
about him.  The last time I saw Nigro he was on the
other side of the complex.  I didn't know where EMT
Zarrillo was.  I know that my last direction to him was
go to Ganci.  I was clearly concerned about him.
Besides the fact that I directed him, he works for me.
We are friends for some 15 years and I am friends with
his wife longer and I was really concerned about him.
I didn't know where Captain Nahmod was.  Again, I had
directed him and again we were friends and I had those
concerns as well.
          I started making my way towards this Suburban
vehicle.  It was an EMS Suburban, the star of life was
on the rear window.  I ran into Mike Butler, Chief of
Fire Prevention.  He was making his way south.  I said
Chief are you all right.  He said yes, how about you.
I said fine.  I said where is the command post, because
everything down there is destroyed now.  He said the
command post is wiped out; everyone is gone.  He said
we need to set up a command post.  It's just me and you
J. PERUGGIA
38
so let's get started.
          At that point we proceeded north to Murray
Street.  He was on the fire radio.  I ran over, grabbed
the EMS Suburban, pulled up to Murray Street, was
trying to get through on the radio.  I finally got
through when we decided that we were going to set up
the command post on Warren, bring it one block north.
I got through on the radio, I asked about the command
post.  They said they had no communications with
anyone.  I told them I was on the scene and proceeding
to set up a command post on Warren Street.
          I don't know if that message got through,
because after we got on Warren Street, we ran into Joe
Farrell from the New York State Health Department, EMS
Bureau.  He said, "Where are you headed?"  I said,
"Well this is the command post."  Then the Chief says,
"There is a gas leak, we need to go north one more to
Chambers."  I said, "Come on Joe, we will drive up
there."  We drove up to Chambers Street, right under
the little Stuyvesant High School bridge.  I parked the
Suburban there and determined that that would be my
command post.  Chief Butler came up and there was a
fire car that they had over there.  He started setting
up.  I was trying to get through on Citywide.  There
J. PERUGGIA
39
was a lot of activity.
          At some point I heard an EMS Chief officer,
later to find out that was J.P. Martin and he was here
on the Brooklyn side on the Brooklyn Bridge and he was
assuming command of the operation, directing units
staged in Brooklyn.  I guess his impression was that no
one was talking to them.  They thought everyone in the
Trade Center was wiped out.  They didn't know what was
going on.  I was able to cut in on Citywide.  I asked
him to hit the alert tone.  I remember asking him to
hit the alert tone several times to clear the
frequency.
          I indicated to them that unless there was a
higher ranking officer than myself that they were in
contact with, I was on scene at the World Trade Center
and was establishing the EMS command post adjacent to
the Fire Department command post at Chambers Street.
So they sent that message out several times.  I told
them that any officers that were operating on the scene
should immediately be directed to report in to Chambers
and West.  Any ambulance crews that they had contact
with that were operating in the vicinity, I asked them
to have them respond in to West Broadway and Chambers,
which was two blocks to the east of where we were
located.
J. PERUGGIA
40
          They sent that message out several times.
Further, I tried to get them to conduct a roll call of
the Chief officers so I know who was accounted for,
where they may be and what types of operations.  I also
remember asking to them if they had contact with any
officers or ambulances that were operating, to get them
identified and where they were.  I wanted to try to get
some sense of scope on what sort of management people
and/or supervisory people were on the scene, where they
were and what people were doing.  Again, there was
tremendous disaster area down there.  It was out of
control and we didn't know what was going on.
          Some time went by.  We were trying to collect
resources.  Some ambulances showed up.  I directed them
up there.  A couple of supervisors arrived and I
directed one up to staging.  I sent two people, I don't
remember who they were, I asked them to just make their
way down to Vesey Street and no further and if they saw
anyone operating around there to get them up, get them
out of there.  I know there were people operating on
Vesey Street prior to the second collapse.  I said, "I
want you to go down there, do a quick survey, your
safety obviously first.  If you find anybody get them
J. PERUGGIA
41
up here.  Let's get away from the site and let's
regroup and we will go in there."  Chief Butler I think
was trying to do the same thing for fire.
          I started to get some sense from Citywide.
J.P. Martin had a group of people in Brooklyn.  There
was a group of people at South Ferry, I think it was
Chief Steffens and I don't remember who else was down
there.  They told me that there was a group of people
up at Chelsea Piers with Kowalczyk and Pat
Scaringello.  This was are time progressed.
          I ran into Pete Carrasquillo, maybe after
about 20, 30 minutes.  He was down near the water on
Chambers Street.  He heard me on the radio and he said
he made his way down towards Vesey Street.  I said,
"Pete, maybe you can make your way down there, get a
forward seat and see what's going on."  J.P. Martin
eventually made his way to me.  I made him then become
the communications person for the operation post.  I
got in touch with Kowalczyk, maybe an hour or two
later, to see if I could get him down.
          I knew I was hurt.  There was blood dripping
down the side of my face.  I was a little dazed and
confused and I hadn't spoken to my family since when I
first started responding in.  I was concerned about the
J. PERUGGIA
42
two guys who worked for me that were my friends as well
as other people and I said I have a task in front of
me, but I just needed some help.  I reached out to
Walter to get him down.  It was a while before Walter
got down.  We continued the operation.  We started to
set up some sectors and started sometime shortly about
maybe one o'clock or two o'clock or whatever.  Both of
us said, "You look like you are shot."  He said, "Do
you want me to do command and you do operations? "  We
then switched roles.
          At some point after that we found out that
McCracken was okay.  He made his way back up towards,
we started to regroup and implement some sort of
operational plans about how we were going to do the
operation.
     Q.   This whole time, did you see Chief McCracken?
     A.   I didn't see Chief McCracken until much
later, maybe one or two o'clock.  It was evening, and
it was dark so I don't know what time, as time
progressed we set up sectors.   I had John McFarland go
down to Vesey and West Street, with a team of guys to
do forward triage.  I got a communication from John.
He called me on his cell phone, indicating that they
found Ganci and Feehan's bodies.
J. PERUGGIA
43
          I relayed that information to Chief
McCracken.  We got out of our command post and I walked
over and relayed that to, I believe it was Chief Nigro
and the Fire Commissioner, who were at the fire command
post at that point in time.  At that point, you know, I
was really concerned about Rich Zarrillo.  I hadn't
heard --
     Q.   Still you hadn't heard?
     A.   Right, and I knew he was there.  I ran into
Abdo at some point.  He didn't know where Rich was.
     Q.   When did you finally find Rich Zarrillo?
     A.   Probably around 6:00.  I didn't see Richie
till after.  Chief Hirth and Lieutenant Cacciola made
their way down or way up from South Street at some
point in time.  They said that they saw Richie and he
was at Chelsea Piers.  At that point I knew that he was
okay.
          We continued the operation.  I was there
until 8:30 the next morning.
     Q.   Did you see Father Judge at any point?
     A.   I never saw Father Judge.  The only ranking
people I saw were Ganci and Nigro at the command post,
the Fire Commissioner, who I briefed early on and
obviously saw later on.
J. PERUGGIA
44
     Q.   Okay.  Anything else you want to add?
     A.   I just marked the map number 6, the location
where I guess I was underneath the fire truck.
Somewhere between Vesey and Murray around Barclay.
     Q.   On the second collapse?
     A.   Right, it was either 22 or 23 engine, I don't
remember exactly, and some truck company.
          MR. CASTORINA:  Okay.  This concludes the
     interview.  The time now is 0926 hours.  Thank
     you, Chief PERUGGIA.
File No. 9110161
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
          EMT RICHARD ZARRILLO
   Interview Date:  October 25, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
R. ZARRILLO
2
          MR. CASTORINA:  Today's date is October 25th,
2001.  I'm Ron Castorina conducting an interview in the
office of BITS.  Your name --
          MR. McCOURT:  Tom McCourt.
          MR. CASTORINA:  -- is also accompanied with
me conducting this interview.
     Q.   Your name, sir?
     A.   Richard Zarrillo.
     Q.   And your rank and title?
     A.   I'm an EMT working in fire operations as the
special event coordinator.
     Q.   Can you tell me, on September 11th, 2001, the
events that took place that day, whatever you can
remember?
     A.   Sure.  While sitting at my desk, probably
just after the first plane had hit the tower, Chief
Ganci had come running across the hall yelling
something about a plane hitting the twin towers.  Most
of us thought he was joking until we looked out the
window and saw one of the towers had flames coming out
of it.  I placed a call to Chief Peruggia to ask him
his location.  He told me he was just coming over the
Verrazano Bridge about to get in the HOV lane.  I told
him maybe you want to start heading to Manhattan, I'll
R. ZARRILLO
3
meet you in the city, this way we could hook up and do
whatever we needed to do.  At that point he thought I
was joking.  He cursed at me and hung up.  Captain
Nahmod was sitting next to me and he said we need to
get some equipment, find out who's going, who's not
going, try and make our way there.
          I spoke with Chief Peruggia.  He called me
back and said maybe you and Abdo, Captain Nahmod, need
to head into the city to be part of the command,
runners or administratively, whatever we can do to help
out.  I was able to locate a helmet from one of the
people in RCC.  Captain Nahmod and I tried to find a
car to get into the city.  Chief Ramos was bringing us
downstairs to get a pool car, so I think Commissioner
Drury happened to be walking in at the wrong time and
we asked him to drive us into the city.
          I'm not sure of the exact time, but I believe
as we were coming over the Brooklyn Bridge was when the
second plane hit the second tower.  We parked -- I want
to say it's on like Broadway right off of Vesey Street,
between Vesey and Barclay.  Captain Nahmod and I
started heading down Vesey Street towards where we
thought the command post would be.  At that time we had
received a page per Chief Peruggia to go into OEM at
R. ZARRILLO
4
No. 7 World Trade and activate our post in OEM.
Captain Nahmod and I were running down Vesey Street
stepping over airplane pieces, several bodies and
whatnot.
     Q.   Can you describe how much debris was around?
     A.   There was what looked like the front wheel
assembly of an airplane.  Unknown the size of the plane
that had hit, it just looked like it was one pair of
wheels on an assembly, pieces of metal with rivets in
them, a few body parts scattered around.
     Q.   Was debris still falling?
     A.   Debris was falling.  It looked like birds.
There were people falling from the towers or jumping,
whatever it was they were doing.  Abdo and I went into
No. 7, activated OEM, placed calls to EMS Citywide,
RCC, to tell them we were there and we were activated.
          Maybe five, ten minutes, not even ten minutes
later, a rep from OEM came into the main room and said
we need to evacuate the building; there's a third plane
inbound.  That was the only thing I really heard
because I said, Abdo, we've got to go, and we made it
down to the lobby of the building, street level, met up
with Chief Peruggia in the lobby of the building.  He
said that there was no third plane but we needed to
R. ZARRILLO
5
re-establish OEM right there so we can coordinate what
was going on.  He had already been to the command post,
so he told us, and he was trying to release people back
to be operational.  He was looking for the Fire guy to
go back in.  He was there with Captain Yakimovich.  In
OEM with Captain Nahmod and I was Chief Maggio, who is
now retired, and another firefighter from the 1st
Division.  We were really trying to establish OEM and a
treatment sector in the lobby of the building because
there were people coming around us.
          Again, times are a little fuzzy initially for
me.  A few minutes later, John came to me and said you
need to go find Chief Ganci and relay the following
message:  that the buildings have been compromised, we
need to evacuate, they're going to collapse.  I said
okay.  I went down Vesey Street towards West.
     Q.   You were by yourself?
     A.   I was by myself, me and my helmet and my
radio.  I got to the corner of Vesey and West.  I found
some EMS vehicles.  I think I saw Chief Gombo there.
I'm not really sure.  I mentioned to the EMS people
there, again, not knowing who they were, I said you
need to get away from here, the building might
collapse, we need to leave this spot.
R. ZARRILLO
6
          As I was walking towards the Fire command
post, I found Steve Mosiello.  I said, Steve, where's
the boss?  I have to give him a message.  He said,
well, what's the message?  I said the buildings are
going to collapse; we need to evac everybody out.  With
a very confused look he said who told you that?  I said
I was just with John at OEM.  OEM says the buildings
are going to collapse; we need to get out.
          He escorted me over to Chief Ganci.  He said,
hey, Pete, we got a message that the buildings are
going to collapse.  His reply was who the fuck told you
that?  Then Steve brought me in and with Chief Ganci,
Commissioner Feehan, Steve, I believe Chief Turi was
initially there, I said, listen, I was just at OEM.
The message I was given was that the buildings are
going to collapse; we need to get our people out.  At
that moment, this thunderous, rolling roar came down
and that's when the building came down, the first tower
came down.
          The command post was situated right in front
of 3 World Financial, the American Express Building.
The garage was open and as that rumble started and we
saw it was coming down, the firemen that were in the
command area, I believe most of the chiefs, we all ran
R. ZARRILLO
7
into the garage of that building.  It became dark, hard
to breathe.  Nobody had any equipment because most of
the firemen dropped everything as they were running.
It became an obstacle course to get into the garage.
          Again, it's sketchy with time, but it may
have been anywhere from ten to 20 minutes by the time
we found an emergency exit to get out of the building.
It was dark.  There was no light.
     Q.   Who were you with at this point?  Were you by
yourself?
     A.   I had two firemen.  What I did was I took
about ten or 15 running steps into the garage and
hugged into a corner of a wall, an indentation, and I
felt like two or three guys get in behind me and
actually made it a tighter huddle.  The dust, the cloud
came rolling in.  It got dark.  As the dust and the
noise started to settle, we were all tapping up to see
where each other were.
          I met up with Chief Cassano at the stairwell,
and I believe Chief Carrasquillo was around there.  I
know I met up with him outside on the lobby of Vesey
Street from that building, when we got out.  Lots of
firemen, you know, faces, no names I could really
identify, except for Sal.
R. ZARRILLO
8
          We made it up the staircase into the lobby, I
believe it was 3, it may have been one of those little
cross lobbies that were there, and got out onto Vesey
Street.  I met up with EMT Mike Ober, who had been
driving Chief Kowalczyk.  He was his driver for a
while.  I met up with him.  I found Chief Carrasquillo,
who was with Chief Cassano, a few others, you know,
faces, again, that I found, and we were walking around
trying to make -- what happened?  It was still cloudy,
that very fine but heavy dust that was in the air.
          Once I got out of the building, maybe ten
minutes from there, that unforgettable rolling started.
     Q.   The same sound you heard earlier?
     A.   The same sound I heard earlier.
     Q.   Where were you at this point?
     A.   I was on West and Vesey, probably in the
middle of the intersection, trying to find people that
I knew.  At this point I didn't know where John was,
where Abdo was.  I don't know what happened to No. 7.
I knew the building was coming down.  I watched it come
down on us, but I don't know where anybody else is.
          As that roar was happening on the second time
around, I was running down Vesey Street towards the
water with a few thoughts in my head.  One, if I hit
R. ZARRILLO
9
the water, I was swimming home, or just getting into
the water for cover, if necessary.  The marina was
right there.  I ended up making a right on North End
Avenue and there was a building -- EMS, again, I know
Chief Villani was there.  I saw Chief Pascale later
on.  I believe Chief Kowalczyk was in there also.  The
MERV was stationed on North End Avenue for a while and
I remember emergency service was on the southbound side
of North End near Vesey for a while also.  We made it
into that building as the second one came down.  Again,
the clouds and all the other debris.
     Q.   You were protected in that building?
     A.   In the building.
     Q.   Which building was that?
     A.   There was a building right there on the
corner.  Maybe 15, 20 feet off the corner, there was an
entrance into a building, and that's where -- it was
mostly glass windows and we were concerned that the
glass was going to implode.
     Q.   Did that face the river?
     A.   It faced the river and that was protection in
my view.
     Q.   About a three-block distance?
     A.   It's actually one city block, but still that
R. ZARRILLO
10
cloud came over and passed and --
     Q.   Did it get black there, too?
     A.   It got really dark.  Most of us were looking
for cover, trying to avoid anything else that was
coming down.  While we were in that building, we were
told -- again, I don't know where anybody is.
     Q.   You had no radio, right?
     A.   I had a 400 radio.  I couldn't get through to
anybody.
     Q.   Were you hearing anything, Mayday, anything
on the radio?
     A.   No.  The 400 -- I was on EMS Citywide and I
don't know if my radio was clogged or the batteries.
It could have been a hundred different things.
     Q.   Can you just mark on the map where you were?
Just roughly.
     A.   We were right about here.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   I didn't know where John was.  Outside of the
job, John, Abdo and I are old friends and that was my
concern, you know, how am I going to tell these guys'
wives, we all live near each other, that I followed his
direction and now I can't find either of them.
          While we were in this building, we were told
R. ZARRILLO
11
that there was a gas main rupture or a gas leak and we
needed to evacuate that building.
     Q.   Who told you this?
     A.   It was just somebody, a security guard or
somebody.  But then Chief Villani and all the other
chiefs that were in there said we need to gather all of
our equipment because they had set up a treatment area,
there were ten sets of equipment with stretchers from
ambulances, and we all took all that stuff out and
started heading down North End hoping to find -- or
maybe it was down toward -- no.  Down North End Avenue
to try and find another place we could go into.
          Again, at this point there was a lot of
disorientation.  Nobody really was fully aware as to
what was going on.  The radios had gone silent, you
know, guessing, because the repeater tower went down.
Nobody knew what was going on.  I thought I heard a
helicopter.  There were a lot of people running, lots
of patients or would-be patients running past us.
     Q.   Where were they headed?
     A.   Anywhere they could get away from.  The
water.
     Q.   Heading away from the buildings?
     A.   Running north on West Street.  I went into --
R. ZARRILLO
12
there was a school not too far down from here.  I meet
up with Mike Cahill from Division 6 and Gerald Garcia.
They were down there.  The MERV had already tried to
find another place to set up and was moving down North
End Avenue.  I think it was Garcia.  We went into a
school.  I wanted to just wash my face off, use a
bathroom, and as we were in that school building, we
were told we had to evacuate that building because,
again, a gas rupture.  That came from one of the school
officials, a name I couldn't tell you.  Face?  Probably
not now recognize.
          We made it back on to West Street, I don't
remember what the cross was, and we started heading --
I heard people saying we're going to Chelsea.  I heard
Chief Pascale say she was going up to Chelsea Piers, we
were going to try and re-establish up there, you know,
do a count and try to run the operation.
          When I went to that other building, I lost
most of those people, except for Cahill, and then when
they told us to evacuate that building, I just had to
get out of there.  My thoughts were that I needed to
get home, get my wife from midtown and just get home
for my daughter.
          I got onto West Street and met up with
R. ZARRILLO
13
Captain Stone, Greg Brady from Division 1.  I found
Chief Hirth and Grace Cacciola and they said we're all
going up to Chelsea, let's go re-establish our command
up there, again, not knowing where anybody else was.
You see the plumes of smoke, the dust cloud that was
coming down, but we just really wanted to find a safe
place for that.  Probably about ten blocks up West
Street you heard the jets flying overhead, so lots of
thoughts running through people's heads, what's
happening to us here?
     Q.   What kind of jets?
     A.   Military jets.
     Q.   Military jets?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   This is --
     A.   This is right after the second collapse.
     Q.   After the second collapse?
     A.   Well, if I say 15 minutes from the time we
got to that school building and started walking towards
Chelsea, maybe ten, 15 minutes had passed by the time
that --
     Q.   Half an hour?
     A.   Again, I do apologize for that.
     Q.   No, everybody has that problem.
R. ZARRILLO
14
     A.   Time wasn't --
     Q.   There's no perception of time.
     A.   It's still very surreal.  There I was talking
to Chief Ganci and relaying that the building is going
to come down and then it came down on us.  It's very
bothersome.
          We hitched a ride with a police van up to the
Chelsea Piers.  Chief Kowalczyk was there, Chief
Pascale, a slew of ambulances.  There had to be 50 non
city ambulances up there from everywhere.  I saw
Captain Boyle there.  I met up with Captain Pinkus.
Captain Stone, myself, Brady, Chief Hirth and Grace
went into the -- there was some restaurant on the edge
of the Chelsea Pier area, you know, to try and clean up
a little bit, use the rest room, which I needed to do a
while ago.  I met up with a lot of my counterparts from
the Secret Service because that's where their fallback
was becoming.  All their agents from the building were
in there.
          Mark Stone said he felt his shoulder was hurt
and Chief Hirth was looking to get out of there to go
someplace else.  He wanted to check -- I honestly don't
know what was going through his head.  He said I need
to go away from here, I need to go get a car, I need to
R. ZARRILLO
15
go to the division or a hospital.  Whatever the case
may have been, they took Captain Stone to Bellevue to
be treated.  He was treated and released.
          Chief Pascale and Chief Kowalczyk were
establishing their command, and doing this for -- you
know, between chiefs and what I do now, I fell into
that command structure to say, okay, I'm here, let me
help you with this, and I handled staging and some
other logistical issues with them for about two or
three hours, and then I made my way back down to the
command post.  Probably within an hour of us getting up
to Chelsea, Chief Kowalczyk said to me that John is
okay, he heard him on the radio, and that he was going
down to the command post that's been re-established to
either help out or take over from him.
          Then, like I said, a few hours later,
Lieutenant Nevins and I made our way down south back to
Chambers Street where the other command post had been
established.  That's really about it.
          MR. CASTORINA:  I think you've covered
virtually everything.  The time now is 1202.  The
concludes the interview.
File No. 9110162
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
           EMT JULIO MARRERO
   Interview Date:  October 25, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
J. MARRERO 2
          MS. BASTEDENBECK:  Today is October
     25th, 2001.  The time now is 1849 hours.  My
     name is Christine Bastedenbeck.  I work with
     the New York City Fire Department, assigned
     to the World Trade Center Task Force.  I'm
     at Battalion 14 to conduct an interview with
     the following individual.
          Please state your name, rank,
     assignment and shield number.
          EMT MARRERO:  My name is Julio Marrero
     with the New York City Fire Department,
     Battalion 14.  I was assigned to 14 Charlie
     that day, tour 2, and my shield number is
     5376.
          MS. BASTEDENBECK:  Also present for the
     interview is --
          MR. ECCLESTON:  Christopher Eccleston
     of the New York City Fire Department, World
     Trade Center Task Force.
     Q.   Mr. Marrero, on the morning of
September 11th can you recount the events that
took place that day?
     A.   Sure.  I was sitting on 161 and Grand
Concourse approximately about 9:30 in the morning
J. MARRERO 3
when a call came over on my KDT to respond over
to Barclay and Church for a cardiac, most
probably related to the World Trade Center
incident.
          As I was heading down to the World
Trade Center, I saw a massive amount of people
walking away from the building, and I saw smoke
coming from both towers.  I knew that one tower
was hit, never knew that the second tower was
hit.
          I responded over to Barclay and Church
where I came around and I couldn't actually get
around to Barclay street because the roads were
so closed off because of the amount of people
walking in the streets.  We couldn't actually
make our turn on Barclay to get over to Church,
so I went down a few blocks.  I can't remember
exact blocks that I went down; I would say two to
three blocks, because everything was blocked off.
          I finally got over to Church.  When I
saw Church Street, I looked up, and both towers
were in flames.  At this point we realized that
something was terribly wrong.  I looked down the
block and saw that there must have been more than
J. MARRERO 4
three dozen ambulances, fire trucks and police
cars on the street and a massive amount of rescue
workers, firefighters, EMS, police officers,
trying to get these people away from the
buildings.
          Also I was told to pull my ambulance
over by one of the lieutenants so I could help to
start triaging with the casualties and stuff.  I
was trying to explain to the lieutenant on the
scene that I was trying to get to a call, an
actual call that was on Barclay and Church, and
he told me I can mark that a 93 because there was
too many amount of buses, ambulances, to even
worry about me trying to get over that way.
Actually all the street was closed because of so
many rescue ambulances and stuff.  So it was kind
of hard.
          In that process of him trying to
explain to me to pull my ambulance over, I heard
a loud bang.  We looked up, and we just saw the
building starting to collapse.  I looked over and
started to scream at my partner, which he was
inside the vehicle.
     Q.   Who was your partner that day?
J. MARRERO 5
     A.   My partner was Naomi Nacional.
          I was screaming from the top of my
lungs, and I must have been about ten feet away
from her and she couldn't even hear me, because
the building was so loud, the explosion, that she
couldn't even hear me.  I just saw everybody
running; and she saw us running, and she took off
behind us.
     Q.   You left your vehicle right there?
     A.   The vehicle was left there.
     Q.   Do you know approximately where it was?
     A.   The vehicle was approximately between I
believe -- I would say between Liberty -- I'm not
sure.  Between Liberty and Dey, somewhere in that
vicinity.  We're talking about two blocks.  I
can't remember exactly because I was trying to
actually make my way up to Barclay and Church.
     Q.   Would you just indicate on the map with
the number 1 approximately where you remember
leaving the vehicle when you got out to run.
     A.   I believe it was maybe over here.  I
think I ran down Dey.  I think I ran down Dey.
I'm not sure if I ran down Dey because, like I
said, I couldn't move my vehicle anyway because
J. MARRERO 6
there was so many vehicles in the way that we
couldn't move our vehicle.  This happened in such
a split second that the only thing we had to do
to react was run for our dear lives.
          I saw fire trucks.  I saw firemen.  I
saw firemen walking in the building as this
horrific --
     Q.   You want to pause?
          (Pause.)
          MS. BASTEDENBECK:  The interview will
     be continuing the time now is 1856 hours.
     Q.   You left off you left the vehicle and
started to run.
     A.   We started to run.  I remember running
either down Dey or Cortlandt.  I'm not sure which
street it was.  It happened too fast.  I can't
remember.
          In the event that the building was
coming down, I also saw a massive amount of
people running.  The dark cloud hit us.  I
thought I was going to be dead.  I thought I was
going to die when that smoke hit us.  I could see
debris flying, and I started choking from the
smoke because I couldn't breathe.
J. MARRERO 7
          I fell down some subway stairs.
Somewhere I had just started walking towards -- I
knew that there was a building on my right as I
was running, and I knew that I had to find a void
in the building so I wouldn't be hit over the
head with any debris as I was running.
          I was crawling on the side of the
building, and I felt a void.  That's when I took
a step into the void, and there was actually
steps.  Because you couldn't see your hand in
front of you, it was so dark.  A thick cloud of
concrete, debris, smoke, airplane fuel.  It was
just massive thickness.
          I remember there was a void, and I
stumbled down the stairs of this void.  That's
when I broke my foot.  I broke my foot, and I did
feel some pressure on my foot.  My boots were
kind of tight on me, and I felt them getting
tighter.
          All I was thinking at that moment is
how am I going to get out of this situation.
That was my first concern.  I had to worry about
myself because of my safety.  This is one of the
things that they taught us at the academy is try
J. MARRERO 8
to worry about yourself first so then you can
help other people.  So I was really worried about
trying to get out of the situation I was in so I
could get out and start helping people.
          I didn't really feel my foot as much as
I felt my back, because as I fell down the stairs
I sprained my lower back, mostly, and that was
even more.  At the bottom of the stairs, I just
waited a little while.  I could hear people
screaming inside the subway station from a
distance.  It was horrifying.  It was really
horrifying.  The screams I still hear at night.
          I ran out of the subway station to get
help.  As I ran out of the subway station, I ran
down to about -- I believe the street that I ran
down was to Broadway.  I'm not sure -- I believe
I was on Dey, but I'm not sure if it was Dey or
Cortlandt, because a lot of the signs were also
full of dust.  So I really couldn't see that
well.
          I had contacts on that day, and my eyes
were full of dust and they were irritated and I
was completely head to toe in this dust and
concrete and God knows what else we were exposed
J. MARRERO 9
to.  I was really worried about my breathing,
because I had choked up a lot of that dust and
stuff.
          Miraculously I saw my partner walking
towards me.  We embraced for a moment, we were
just so glad to see each other.  Once I turned
around -- I was on the corner I think of Dey or
Cortlandt on Broadway.  I remember Broadway.  I
looked, and it was just an amount of overwhelming
people that needed help, and I didn't have an
ambulance.  The ambulance was left back on Church
Street, I believe, or Trinity, Church and Trinity
turns into that, I'm sure.
          This is where I then started to help
people to the best that I could.  And I felt that
I needed to go back and try to get my ambulance.
So my partner and I started to work towards the
collapsed buildings, and this is when I saw the
chaplain.  I believe it's Father Judge.  I
believe he was there.  There was another chief
with him.  I can't remember who the chief was.
But I remember looking at the chaplain because he
had his coat on, and on the bottom of the coat it
said "chaplain."  That's how I remember it was
J. MARRERO 10
the chaplain.
          I saw them walking towards the
collapsed building, and that's when me and my
partner decided to walk behind them to see if we
can go get our ambulance so we can start
transporting people to the hospital.
          When I really got this really deep sick
feeling inside of my stomach, and I said, "Look,
I don't think we can go back and get the
ambulance.  I think that ambulance is destroyed."
As we were walking towards there, we just saw so
much fire and smoke.  It was a horrifying scene,
and I really felt that the scene was not safe for
me to go back towards that way.
          So we turned around and headed back to
help people.  So we were making a triage right in
the middle of -- we made a triage right on the
street of Broadway and I believe it was Dey.
Broadway and Dey, we started helping people right
there on the corner.  We started setting up a
triage area right there.
          There were no bosses.  There was no
one.  There was just me.  Then a couple of
ambulances pulled up, and we just started loading
J. MARRERO 11
people into the ambulances.  It was mayhem.  From
that moment on, it was just mayhem, everybody
walking up to us and they were hurt some way or
another.
          Then we were helping these people,
loading them up to the ambulance, when I heard
over citywide -- I had my radio on.  I heard over
citywide that the second tower was leaning south,
to start heading people north, it was about to
go.
          So as soon as I heard that over the
radio, my partner was inside an ambulance trying
to help people with the other EMTs, and I was
trying to work with the people outside the
ambulance.
          When I heard that, I had told my
partner to get out of the ambulance, to start
heading people north, and you could tell north
from south by looking at the tower that was still
standing and you knew more or less where you
were.  Because if you were on Broadway and you
looked at the tower, the north tower, you wanted
to run behind it.
          I started telling her to start telling
J. MARRERO 12
people to start moving north, and we both
started -- and I realized that the ambulance,
they were still in there trying to work on
people.  So I ran towards the ambulance, and my
partner ran away from the ambulance, telling
people to run north, because they were all
walking toward the ambulance, because there was
only one ambulance in the area and everybody was
needing so much desperate help that they were all
working towards the ambulance.
          We started telling them to move north.
She ran to tell them to move north, and I ran
towards the ambulance to get them out of there,
because they had no idea what was going on.
          When I got to the ambulance, I told
them to leave because they just said over
citywide that the building was about to collapse,
the second collapse.  They just got out and
moved.  They moved that bus.  I have no idea
which way they went.
          At that moment I just heard the second
building coming down.  When the second building
started to come down, I started to run.
Approximately I'm not sure what street.  I must
J. MARRERO 13
have ran down Fulton Street about a block, and
then I know I cut down another street.  I made a
left.  And I just started cutting between streets
like a snake in order to avoid any kind of debris
or anything trying to hit me.  I ran into one of
the buildings that was open about two blocks
down.
          At this point I was in extreme pain
from my lower back.  My heart rate was over 200.
My adrenaline was very high.  My blood pressure,
I have no idea how high it was, but it was
extremely high.  I was very nervous.  I felt that
I might have had -- was going to experience a
heart attack.
          As I opened the building door, I just
saw inside the building there must have been
about 30 or 40 people inside that building
hiding.  There was just a lot of fear.  And when
they saw me in uniform, everybody was like "Help
me."  I was like, I'm trying to help myself right
now.
          There was another police officer in the
building also.  I believe he was a bike cop,
because he had his little bike uniform on and I
J. MARRERO 14
could tell the police officers that have the
little bike uniform on.  It was just me and him
trying to calm the people down inside the
building and trying to get them away from the
collapse.
          We just waited for the smoke to clear
some.  We got them out.  That building had an
exit on the other side from where I came in.  We
opened that exit.  We got them out of the
building, and we all ran to safety.
          I ran over to Beekman Hospital, where I
practically collapsed.  I needed oxygen treatment
at Beekman.  I can tell you that at Beekman I saw
police officers and firemen coming in, and they
were -- some people were beyond recognition.
          I was in Beekman Hospital on a
stretcher for some oxygen treatment when I saw a
cop friend of mine from the 44 Precinct come in,
and he had his head busted wide open.  I realized
that this cop needed a stretcher more than I did.
There were no stretchers.  So I jumped off and I
said, "Put that police officer on my stretcher."
          I jumped onto another ambulance going
to Bellevue Hospital, from Beekman, because they
J. MARRERO 15
needed to transport a patient who was in severe
head trauma, severe head trauma, intubated, going
from Beekman to Bellevue.  I took the opportunity
to help those EMTs transport this patient from
Beekman Hospital over to Bellevue Hospital.
          This man must have weighed about a good
450 pounds.  He had massive head trauma.  I don't
think -- this patient was pretty much close to
death when we transported him.  I helped them
load this patient, with a bad back, with a broken
foot.  My adrenaline is still going.
          I never even thought about going back
towards the building.  I didn't want to go back
towards that way, because I knew I was injured
and I needed to get out of the area.
          We got that patient over to Bellevue
Hospital, and they treated him.  The EMTs, they
told me that they didn't want me going back to
look for my partner because I was injured, and
they wanted me in.  As soon as I got to Bellevue
Hospital, they grabbed a lieutenant and told them
what was going on with me.
          That's when I just broke down and cried
at Bellevue Hospital, because it was just so
J. MARRERO 16
overwhelming.  I just knew that what happened was
horrific.  It was a bombing.  It wasn't an
accident.  I didn't know what was going on.  I
had no idea, no clue that two airplanes had hit
the building.
          I was responding right after like -- I
would say after one plane hit the building.  I
wasn't even listening to a radio, but I was only
listening to my EMS radio, not listening to 1010
Wins or anything like that, you know, where you
can get information.  I had no idea what was
going on downtown.  I was responding to a call.
          That's basically my story.
     Q.   Is there anything else you'd like to
add?
A. No.
          MS. BASTEDENBECK:  This concludes our
     interview.  The time is 1910 hours.
File No. 9110163
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
             CHARLES WELLS
   Interview Date:  October 25, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          MR. DUN:  Today is October 26, 2001.  The
     time is 1118 hours.  I'm Richard Dun of the New
     York City Fire Department, working with Marisa
     Abbriano, also from the New York City Fire
     Department, conducting an interview with Deputy
     Chief CHARLES WELLS.
     Q.   Sir, would you give us the story of what
happened on September 11, 2001.
     A.   I logged on, I guess, approximately 8:30 in
the morning.  I was proceeding westbound on the
Southern State Parkway in the vicinity of the state
troopers barracks in Valley Stream when the citywide
radio started becoming extremely busy with radio
traffic, Brooklyn and Manhattan units coming up into
the citywide radio, saying 1063, but after a few
minutes I realized they were going to the World Trade
Center.
          Immediately got on the radio and requested
permission to respond, and I was -- I received
permission to respond and proceeded north on the Cross
Island Parkway to the westbound LIE, where I approached
what used to be the Elmhurst gas tanks area.  I was
able to view the Manhattan skyline to see a tower
involved in fire on the upper floors.
CHARLES WELLS
3
          Went through the Midtown Tunnel.  When I
exited the Midtown Tunnel, at that time a radio message
came over that a second tower had been struck by an
airplane.
          I proceeded through midtown traffic, got over
to the west side, and parked my car on the southbound
side of West Street at Barclay.  There were numerous
ambulances parked nearby there, numerous marked fire
sedans, and I got out, I put on my gear and started
walking toward where I believe the command post was, at
Vesey and West.
          As I was walking down the street, there was
numerous apparatus.  I did see Ladder 118 parked at
that -- on West at Vesey.  I then proceeded south of
Vesey on West toward the command post, where I reported
in to Chief Kowalczyk and Chief Basile, at which point
they directed me to go to the southwest sector of the
complex at Liberty and West Street and establish some
medical treatment triage center.
          As I was walking down, numerous people on the
upper floors were jumping, jumping in pairs, holding
hands, jumping, and they were landing -- they were
landing on the ground, and then on -- also on top of
the Vista International Hotel.
CHARLES WELLS
4
          I got down to Liberty and West.  When I
arrived there, there were approximately 15 EMS units --
excuse me.  Approximately two to three department EMS
units, numerous fire apparatus and approximately 10 or
12 Metro Care ambulances, all right up against the
southwest corner of Liberty and West.
          I immediately told them to re-establish on
the west side of West Street, not under the pedestrian
bridge, but north of the pedestrian bridge as close to
Liberty Street as possible.  They immediately responded
to that.
          Debris was falling.  I immediately told them
to don hard hats.  Only the department EMS personnel
had hard hats at that point.  Metro Care, they didn't
have any hard hats.  I then interacted with Deputy
Chief Robert Browne of the EMS command, who was
directed to the same site.  He directed the units over
to the west side of West Street on -- on West Street by
Liberty for these units to re-establish themselves in a
more safe location.
          As the units were driving around, they did it
in a pretty quick fashion.  As they were exiting their
vehicles, a firefighter, assigned to OEM, a Firefighter
Tim Brown, I see him exiting the Liberty Street area of
CHARLES WELLS
5
the complex running towards us.  He came up, and he
said, he said, "Chief, I have ten people on the ground
floor of the 2 World Trade Center, the south tower in
the lobby.  They somehow managed to get themselves into
the elevator and got down to the lobby, and they all
have fractured legs.  We can't get them out.  Could you
come in and get them?"
          So I said, "Okay, fine."  I turned around and
I said, "Let me have six personnel and bring the
stretchers and the back boards, and we are just going
to put them on the back boards, and we will do fracture
management when we get back to treatment."
          Of the six that came forward -- I asked for
volunteers.  I said whoever wants to come in with me.
Six people immediately came up, but only two had
helmets, and that was the crew of 18 Charlie 2, EMT
Conzo and EMT Truoccolo.  I may be pronouncing his name
wrong.  The other four were Metro Care personnel.  They
had no turnout jackets.  They didn't have helmets, and
I said, "No, you guys stay back here and just when you
see us come out with these people, you immediately take
them and give us your empty stretcher, and we'll do a
round robin, swapping out the equipment to get the
patients out."
CHARLES WELLS
6
          I told Bobby Browne what I was doing.  He
said, "Okay, fine."  He was going to remain there and
wait for us to come back out and see what we have.  We
took the crew of 18 Charlie, and they had Firefighter
Brown direct us to where he wanted us to go.
          We entered Liberty Street from West Street,
and we started walking down the sidewalk.  We got to
the point of being in between the Vista Hotel and the
World Trade Center, at which point we heard a -- we
felt a loud -- a very strong vibration, shaking, and a
loud noise like a subway train coming through a station
at speed, like a jet engine at full throttle.  It was a
roaring sound, and he wanted to continue down Liberty
Street, and I grabbed him.
          I said, "Tim, we can't go down there," and
then things started to get dark, and we just ran, and
there is some doorway around here, some doorway, and we
ran into this doorway.  We got in about, I don't know,
a number of feet, and the wind velocity took us off our
feet and just threw us, and then we started getting
buried with debris.
     Q.   It threw you further into the building or --
     A.   Right, into the building.  Actually, it
actually threw us.  The wind was coming from the east,
CHARLES WELLS
7
from the east to the west, so we got into this doorway,
got into something, and it just pushed us and just
knocked you off your feet, like a wave hitting you at
the beach, and you get stuck in the wave itself.
          So we are trapped up in there now.  We are
separated.  I'm yelling to the other guys, but you're
buried in this.
     Q.   I know you are Haz-Mat trained.  Did you have
a Scott pack or no?
     A.   No, and then I don't have my Scott pack any
more.  When they disbanded ERS, the ERS unit
relinquished all their equipment back to Haz-Mat
operations.
Q. Okay.
     A.   I had my helmet on.  For some reason I had my
strap on, and thank God that was on, as I'll tell you
later on, and I had the EMS bunker pants, and my jacket
on, so it took like about 10 minutes, and I was able to
dig myself to the point where I was falling down,
because it turns out I was suspended off the ground.
It has debris and dig, dig, dig, and you drop, drop,
drop, and you dig, dig, dig, and finally I was able to
burrow out of -- like about a couple of minutes like
moving ahead.  Couldn't breathe.  Choking.
CHARLES WELLS
8
          There was oxygen, but you were breathing the
dirt right in, you were eating it, so you had to keep
moving around.  Finally just pulled your jacket up over
your face and tried to breathe inside your jacket, and
then I hit a wall, and then I started to -- and I was
able to stand up at that point, and the debris is now
about waist level at that point, and then -- now the
smoke and debris is clearing, and the whole -- you can
see right out to West Street at this point or Liberty
and West.  You can see in that whole area, and it was,
like, I don't know, about a hundred people.
          Everybody's heads were all popping up now.
Everybody is digging out, so I ran into a couple of
firefighters and I said, "Well, you know, what the hell
happened?"  Some kind of an explosion, he goes, and
that's what I thought it was, because it was like
coming at you sideways, so we looked out, and we're
getting the people out, and as we are getting people
out through this debris onto West Street, I'm looking
at the medical treatment area, and all the fire
apparatus, and all the ambulances were on fire, and
nobody is around.  You know, where is everybody?
          So I got back out into the street and got
everybody out, and we directed them.  They wanted to
CHARLES WELLS
9
know where to go.  We said just go to the water.  Just
go to the -- get on the boat, get the hell out of the
city.  And as I crossed West Street, I'm looking north,
and I'm looking south, and nobody is around.  Nobody is
around, and I walked over to where the ambulances were
burning, and one by one all of a sudden people started
to appear.  You know, the Metro Care personnel, other
EMS personnel.
          After about a few minutes, Bobby Browne's
aid, Jay Katz, he shows up, and then Bobby shows up, so
I said, "Let's get all the -- move the equipment out of
the back of the ambulances that are in bags before they
burn up and the oxygen and let's re-establish over by
this building."
          This building turns out to be the World
Financial Center directly across the street from
Liberty, you know, on the corner of Liberty and West so
we got -- there is like a knoll there, a grassy knoll,
whatever, concrete knoll.  Vehicles have flipped over,
on fire, and we get a lot of stuff, and we put it right
in front of this building, and now we were going to
figure out -- we'll move down towards the water or move
north to West Street, and we were trying to figure out
where we should go.  The radios weren't working, and we
CHARLES WELLS
10
hear this noise again.
          This is 15, 20 minutes later.  I don't know
the exact time frame, and we hear this noise again, and
I turned, and I could see Bobby Browne and Jason Katz.
They were like about 20, 30 feet ahead of me, and they
disappeared into the world -- they ran into the World
Financial Center, so we start running, and we get to
within, I don't know, five feet of it, and we get blown
through the plate glass window with the wind velocity,
so then we get trapped up in here, and we get buried
again, and I'm on, I guess, like the left side of
where -- I got pushed in and slipped to the left, and
you got pushed into, you know -- got crashed into a
wall, so when -- then that noise went on like a minute,
minute and a half, and then it stopped, and we got
buried again, but now there is somebody under me, and
it's a fireman, there's a Scott pack, and we're
wiggling around, and this turns out to be Lieutenant
Stan Rybak of Haz-Mat operations, and we started buddy
breathing with the Scott pack.  I was able to get some
air.
          So we started moving around, and moving
around, and then we ran into Firefighter Jeff Borkowski
of Haz-Mat operations, and then we ran in to
CHARLES WELLS
11
firefighter Phil McArdle of Haz-Mat Company No. 1, and
the four of us just moved around the room trying to
find a way out, and we couldn't find our way out, but
we knew we were in the lobby floor, at least we thought
we were.
          After -- I don't know seemed like forever,
but all of a sudden I could hear Phil McArdle yelling,
"Over here, over here," and we crawled over, and we
end up in this -- back here somewhere around here, and
we come outside, and it's like a morning fog, a morning
heavy fog.  There's light, but you can't see very far,
and I couldn't breathe very well at that point.
          I was wheezing a lot, and everybody else was
too, and our eyes -- we couldn't see.  Our eyes were on
fire with this debris, so we were able to see a deli
across the way, so we run into this deli, and the
window had been broken out, and we go up to the
refrigerator, and we started just powering shit, you
know, soda, club soda, whatever we could find, just
trying to clear our eyes, and they leave.
          For whatever reason, they left, and I'm there
by myself, and I hear this voice behind me, "Buddy, can
you please help me?"  So I turned around.  There is a
guy on the floor, you know, covered in this dust, and
CHARLES WELLS
12
he's got an angulated tib fib fracture, so I said,
"Yeah, sure, brother, I'll help you out," and I threw
him some water.  I said, "Take some of this, start
washing your eyes out."
          So he goes, "Are you CHARLIE WELLS?"  I
turned around, I said, "Yeah, I am." I'm looking.  It
turns out to be a friend of mine, Dave Hanchu, who's a
Daily News photographer.  I'm sure you guys have seen
him over the years, and I go, "Dave Hanchu?" He says,
"Yeah, Charlie."  I said, I go, "Your leg's broken,"
and he goes, "I can't get up."  I said, "Okay, fine,
I'll get you out of here, but we will be moving fast.
I don't know what the hell happened."
          Still, I don't know what's happening.  So he
starts moving with me, and he says to me -- he goes,
"You know that one of the towers has collapsed."  So I
go, "No, no I wasn't aware of that."  He says, "Because
I took a picture of it as it was happening.  That's how
I got caught up and then got blown around."
          So I go, "All right."  So then I began to
understand the enormity of what was going on, and I
dragged him out of the deli and got him onto the side
to the sidewalk, and now we went west, which was a
right turn, and we go right to this North Cove Marina,
CHARLES WELLS
13
and there between where I was dragging him and the
North Cove Marina, another fireman and a police officer
come up to me and said, "Can we help you?"  And we
picked him up, and we carried him to this Fire
Department marine unit, and we get him out.
          So then I walked back now toward North End
Avenue, and now I'm trying to figure out -- no, I'm
sorry.  We -- I then leave the marina, and this
esplanade is a walkway.  I start walking down here and
trying to, you know, re-establish where the personnel
are.  Nobody is around now, but people are walking this
way.  You know, civilians.  I'm all telling them go
down here, because word had it that there was a ferry
over here, so I walked down here, and I ran into
Commissioner Gregory, and a couple of seconds after
that Jason Katz, a couple of seconds after that, half
the crew of 18 Charlie, who was Joe Conzo -- Truoccolo
ended up getting hurt.  He got trapped up under a car,
and he got numerous avulsions and lacerations, and they
took him to the hospital, so now I know that they're
alive, and then I ran into Bobby Browne, who I hadn't
seen in about an hour, and he's alive, so -- but he
was -- we were all banged up.
          So I said, "You go down to the ferry and
CHARLES WELLS
14
establish a triage point over there.  If you need
transport, we will see what we can get.  I'm going to
look around for ambulances and personnel and see what
we can find."  The radio wasn't working.  The transmit
button on the speaker mike was jammed.
          So I turned the radio off, and you can clear
it.  Turn the radio on, and I tried to transmit, and I
reversed direction and went the other way, and over
here I ran into about 12 -- about 6 or 8 ambulances,
about 10 personnel, and we were able to start to -- one
of the things I learned about this is that the face
shield of the helmet is absolutely useless.  You need
goggles.  And we can't lock the ambulances any more.
          In fact, once you got a confirmed MCI, you've
got to leave them open, because they were running and
locked, and the voluntary units, not only were they
running and locked, when you broke into them, no, the
ignition, somehow they were able to override, when you
turn the ignition off, they can turn it.  They can
either take the key out and then lock the steering
wheel, but the vehicle is still running, so you
couldn't use the vehicles.
          On all the department ones, we broke the
driver's side window, the butterfly window, and then we
CHARLES WELLS
15
could get in, and then we got about eight ambulances
running and personnel, so we get over here, and over
here there is like a little deli -- I'm sorry, it's a
restaurant.  We got into the restaurant, and when we
got into the restaurant, you know, behind the bar, we
were taking the bar spigot, you know, the soda spigot,
and we were pouring the water and the club soda in our
eyes to clear our eyes, and the phone is ringing.
          Pick up the phone, "I can't talk right now,"
hang up, and then I picked up the phone again, and I
tried to get through to citywide, and I couldn't get
through to citywide, so I quick tried my house, and my
wife picked up the phone, and I said, "You know, it's
me.  I'm all right, I'm okay, but it's going to be a
long time before I get home, but I'm okay, love you,"
boom, I hang up the phone.
          Come back out here, get up to West Street,
and now there is a lot of personnel.  Everybody is
starting to come -- it's starting to all come
together.  Got back all the way over here to -- excuse
me, over here to Vesey, and there is like a big parking
lot over here, and all the cars were on fire, and I get
back over here, and there is more EMS personnel, so I
said all right.
CHARLES WELLS
16
          We started to set up a medical triage center
over here now, Vesey and West, and then I was able to
get on the radio at that point, and I got through to
citywide saying that Car 631, Deputy Chief Wells
reporting in, and with that they said go up to Broadway
and 85 at the command post.
          So now I had to walk -- I think I came down
here, and I came down West through, you know, the
gateway over here, and I came back up through here and
took Albany Street, Thames, Trinity, and got up to
Broadway, and I don't know what the intersection was,
but it was 225 Broadway, a corner building, and there
is a huge contingent of firefighters, about 15, 20 EMS
personnel, and Dr. Kelly and Dr. Prezant, and they come
up to me and they go, "Chief," he goes, "We are trying
to set up" -- they wanted to set up a medical triage
sector, treatment sector outside.
          I said, "No, no, no.  Let's go into this."
There was a corner building, which is 225 Broadway, and
inside there is huge hallways that had side elevator
banks, and I said, "No, let's go in here."
          The custodians of the building said, "Do you
want us to bring desks down?  You can use them as
treatment tables."  That's what they did, and then
CHARLES WELLS
17
within about 15, 20 minutes, we had a well-established
medical treatment center there with physicians from
area hospitals, who they just showed up.
          There was a drugstore nearby that was
accessed, broken into, and we started bringing out all
the wound care stuff, and within about 15 minutes
started receiving patients, most of them respiratory, a
lot of them eye injuries, and they had pulmonologists
there, they had ophthalmologists there, they had
emergency physicians there, Dr. Prezant, Dr. Kelly, and
in fairly quick fashion we were able to get this thing
ramped up and operating.
          At that point, I was there for about an hour,
you know, leading that, and what I could see, nobody
wanted to be transported.  They just wanted to be
patched up to go back to work, so we had like four
ambulances there, four department ambulances.
          Lieutenant Kevin Haugh, Captain Jeff Race,
Lieutenant Roy David, Lieutenant Steve Lincke, I
believe Lieutenant Jack Sullivan, and there were a few
others, all operating this area, quickly making sure
that the patients are getting in, getting treated and
getting moved back out.
          After about an hour, I get a message from the
CHARLES WELLS
18
command post from Chief Kowalczyk to report to the
command post.  Now they had established a command post
back up here at West and Vesey, so Lieutenant David
said, "I'll get you over there," because I couldn't see
at that point now, very, very blurred vision, and I was
having trouble breathing, and even with the eye
treatments and them washing my eyes out, I couldn't see
very well, and I wasn't breathing -- you know, just,
you can hear yourself wheezing, but everybody was
having this problem.
          So we moved -- Roy gets me all the way over
to -- at that point a couple of blocks away from the
command post, and Dr. Al Cherson and somebody's driving
him, and his car is -- all the windows are blown out,
and, you know, like, five, six inches of dust.  It was
like, wild, and the things moving, and I just jumped
on -- Roy and I just jumped on the trunk of the car,
and we leaned in, and I said, "Could you just get us
over to West and Vesey."  That's where I'm going,
Chief, no problem.
          And we went over there and reported in, and
at that point Chief McCracken was there, Chief
Goldfarb, Chief Kowalczyk, Chief Basile, Chief
Tramontana.  There was a huge EMS contingent there with
CHARLES WELLS
19
an operating medical sector, and immediately Chief
McCracken, and Chief Kowalczyk and Chief Basile brought
me over and, you know, said, you know, "You are going
to the hospital." And I go, "No, I'm fine."  They go,
"Well, you are going to the hospital, but we want you
to brief us on what you did," you know, so I gave them
a briefing just as I described to you, and fairly, you
know, quick order, and I got put on the M.E.R.V., and
at that point I got more eye treatments and got brought
over to St. Vincent's, spent about an hour and half at
St. Vincent's, felt a lot better, and they released me,
and I got dressed and hitched a ride back to the
command post, and now that's 5:30, six o'clock in the
evening, and at that point, I never re-entered any
building, and I was never -- I was never above street
level in any building.
     Q.   So basically after St. Vincent's you went
back down there.  Did you do any more ops?
     A.   No, they wouldn't let me do any more ops.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   I just, you know, basically sat there and --
oh, what I did do operationally, was -- they were able
to access and have response to that medical sector, the
EMS operations post, the use of things like three, or
CHARLES WELLS
20
four or five U.S.A.R. paramedics, and I started giving
them a briefing on what I would expect them to do over
the next few days, start ramping up, in the event they
activated or accessed the U.S.A.R. equipment, that I
wanted them to be with search teams, and I gave that
report to, you know, Chief Tramontana, Chief McCracken,
Chief Kowalczyk, who was standing there, and after
about an hour of that briefing, that was basically the
conclusion of my operational role at that site, so, you
know, for a day, got a few people out, you know, was
able to establish a couple of medical sectors, and
miraculously, never had a fracture, you know.
          That was it, and they said, you know, "Try
and find your car," which I knew was on West Street,
and they said you know, "You may not find it, you know,
or severely damaged."
          So I walked up, and there it is.  Nothing is
wrong with it, except it's covered in about six inches
of, you know, soot, and that was it.  I got into the
car and somehow, you know, made my way home, and then I
was out on medical for two days, which was Wednesday,
the 12th, Thursday, the 13th, cleared back to work by
the ophthalmologist and my primary physician on the
13th and then reported back to the site on the 14th.
CHARLES WELLS
21
     MR. DUN:  This concludes the interview with
Chief Wells.  The time is 1146 hours.  Thank you
very much, sir.
     Continuation with Chief Wells, for
clarification.
     THE WITNESS:  The latter medical treatment on
West Street with the- EMS operations command post
where I reported back to after being released from
St. Vincent's was located on Murray and West, on
Murray and West, I believe, not Vesey and West.
     It would have been too close into the site,
because I was able to visualize the collapse of 7
World Trade Center as I was looking south on West
Street, looking slightly east, and you could see
the tower just disappear behind the other
buildings, which would have been Barclay.
File No. 9110164
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
           EMT SEAN CUNNIFFE
   Interview Date:  October 26, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
S. CUNNIFFE 2
          MR. DUN:  Today's date is October 26th,
     2001.  The time now is 8:17 a.m.  I'm
     Richard Dun of the New York City Fire
     Department, City of New York.  I'm working
     with Marissa Abbriano, also with the New
     York City Fire Department.  I'm conducting
     an interview with the following individual.
          EMT CUNNIFFE:  Sean Cunniffe, EMT
     specialist, Battalion 31.
          MR. DUN:  This is in regards to the
     date of September 11th.
     Q.   What do you recall?
     A.   It started off like any other day.  I
went in, got our truck ready, went to stop for
breakfast on DeKalb and Flatbush, 99 cents bacon,
egg and cheese, can't pass that up.
          While we were ordering, we heard a lot
of commotion on the radio.  We turned up the
radio a little bit louder to see what was going
on.  Heard what was going on, ran out to the
truck, got in.  48 David put us on it, 48 David
go.
          We went.  While going we were a little
bit excited, it was going to be the job of the
S. CUNNIFFE 3
century.
     Q.   When you got the call were you able to
see the twin towers?
     A.   No, no, not from there.  But en route
as soon as we hit like Tillary Street, the
Brooklyn Bridge is when we could see it.  We
could see the damage.  It didn't look like much.
We said -- we were thinking to ourselves, me and
my partner, it's like, ah, some knucklehead with
a private jet got too close or one of those
little fighter planes.
     Q.   Who was your partner that day?
     A.   Jarjeam Felton, 5148.
          We were a little bit excited.  We were
like, this is gonna be the job of the century,
the job of a career.  We were going there, lights
and sirens blasting along with I don't know how
many other emergency vehicles over the same
bridge as us.  We went over the Brooklyn Bridge.
          We got off the Brooklyn Bridge at Park
Row, went up Church Street, I believe -- not
Church Street, Chambers Street.  We heard there
was two staging points:  One was on Church; the
other was West Street.  My partner said to go to
S. CUNNIFFE 4
Church Street, and I said, "No, we always go to
West Street."  So we went to West Street.
          We got there.  I don't know the
supervisor's name, but we pulled up in front of
Six World Trade, West and Vesey, and we parked
our truck pretty much under the pedestrian bridge
and waited for further instructions.
          We grabbed our equipment and got out
and this and that.  We were waiting there.
That's when the scope of the whole incident
unfolded before us, because as we were waiting
there, we started seeing people falling from the
building.
     Q.   When you were driving to Chambers
Street, did you see debris flying around?
     A.   Yeah, yeah, not much but all that glass
falling and papers and smoke.
     Q.   Was there a lot of people running,
chaos?
     A.   I really didn't pay too much attention
to it because I was too busy trying to get to the
staging point at West Street.  When we got there,
when we got set up and we actually had a minute
to actually stop and look and see, we were like,
S. CUNNIFFE 5
oh, shoot.
     Q.   That was just the one tower that was
hit at that point?
     A.   Yeah.  The second plane hadn't come in
yet.
          We were lined up on West Street, west
side, right by the pedestrian bridge, between six
and one, over here somewhere.  I don't remember
the supervisor's name, but they had us line up,
put our stretchers and equipment on it.  We were
just waiting for further instruction.
          As we were waiting there, counting the
people jumping, that's when we saw the scope of
it.  We counted 39 people.  It was sad.  That's
when it stopped being exciting and reality kicked
in and we were hanging out.
          The second plane came in.  It was the
biggest noise I ever heard in my life.
     Q.   Did you see the plane?
     A.   Yeah.  We saw it, we heard it, we felt
the heat from it, the debris.  We ducked under a
truck, Fire Patrol 3, I believe it was, parked
right over here.  Just before -- because we
started running.  It was just before the
S. CUNNIFFE 6
pedestrian bridge at West and Vesey.  It was
parked over here.  Debris was falling and people
were running and panicking.
          We came out.  A supervisor on the scene
I believe said get all the vehicles around onto
Vesey between North End and West in between here.
So I went, got the vehicle, brought it around.
My partner stayed there with the staging people.
     Q.   The officer, was he a male?  Female?
     A.   Male, EMS lieutenant.
          As we were standing there, we saw Von
Essen, Judge, run by us.  We saw the Mayor come
out.  Just a lot of people were there:  31
Victor, 31 Young and 31 Adam and 40 Charlie was
there.  A whole bunch of people from the
neighborhood we know that work over here in
Brooklyn.
          I went, parked the vehicle over here.
As I was returning, I had just turned this corner
and everybody was running into American Express.
     Q.   American Express building?
     A.   American Express building.  That was
our next staging point, in the lobby there.  We
set up (inaudible).  Everybody was bringing
S. CUNNIFFE 7
stretchers, all the equipment in there,
supervisor were in there.  Everybody was waiting.
That's when I got separated from my partner,
because he went to try to find a phone to call
his family.
          We were waiting there.  We really
didn't know what was going on outside because we
were inside.  We couldn't really see from this
point that far over.  That's when everybody just
started running.  The rumbling started and a big
cloud of smoke came by the windows and started
breaking the windows.
     Q.   Now we're talking about the south tower
collapsing?
     A.   Yeah, it collapsed.  I'm sure it was
some significant time in between.  It seemed like
ten minutes, the whole job.
     Q.   You lose time.
     A.   Yeah.  I guess it's almost an hour
later, 9:55.
          From that, the building started
collapsing.  I just remember looking up at it and
it was like, ah, that's not supposed to collapse.
It's supposed to stay up.  People were just
S. CUNNIFFE 8
running, and someone kicked me and said, "Run,
you stupid ass, run."
          So we started running.  We were running
through the hallway, like the lobby is a big
lobby, the hallway on the north side of the
American Express building with the emergency
exit, and we were packed in there like sardines
trying to get away.
          Stupid things you remember, like I
remember telling people just run, get the hell
out of the building.  It's coming down right on
top of us.  The windows were already breaking in
the front.
          I remember seeing this woman.  She was
about maybe 5-5, close to 250.  She was hobbling.
I looked at her.  She had a broken leg.  I wound
up grabbing her, putting her arm around me and
just dragging her out of the building, because
she was slowing too many people up.
          As soon as we got I'd say in between
these two -- the Merrill Lynch, that's when I
decided to start going back, because I heard the
maydays on the radios and all of our friends
screaming.  I heard 31 David screaming, 31 Mary
S. CUNNIFFE 9
screaming, Chief Brown I believe was screaming on
the radio.
          I just stopped and tried to go back.  I
made it right back to the corner, and that's as
far as I got.  I couldn't see anything and
couldn't do anything.  So I decided to come back
around here.  The MERV truck was here.  We were
saying we'll stay with the MERV.  We'll set up
over here.
          I don't know how long we were there,
but we were trying to set up the MERV.  We were
getting vehicles pulled off this street.
     Q.   North End Avenue?
     A.   Yeah, because --
     Q.   Vesey?
     A.   Vesey.  That's where they had us park.
31 Adam was dead.  We were trying to boost it.
It was like forget it, just leave it.  This all
happened approximately the same time of the
collapse also.  It was like forget it, just leave
it.
          There was a whole bunch of us standing
over here by the MERV truck on North End Drive,
River Terrace, I'm not sure.  It was either here
                  S. CUNNIFFE                  10
or here.  I'm not sure.
     Q.   This is still with the first collapse?
     A.   Yeah, still the first.
     Q.   Did you see the fireball come yet?
     A.   No, I didn't even look up.  I just
remember hearing like the helicopters.  Everybody
was just running wild, and I pretty much couldn't
see.
          We were setting up, and we said, okay,
let's go back.  We were on our way back, and we
made it again to pretty much the same corner of
West End and Vesey.  I guess we were standing
right in the middle of West Street when we heard
over the radio that tower one is leaning,
everybody evacuate, evacuate, evacuate.
          We were just trying to get as many
people out of there as possible just telling them
to run.  As soon as one started coming down,
that's when we started running.  I didn't stop
until I got to the water.
     Q.   River's edge?
     A.   Yeah.  I jumped over the wall and just
kept going and kept going.  I didn't know which
way it was going to come.  You don't know if it's
                  S. CUNNIFFE                  11
coming straight down, if it's going to tilt all
the way down.  There's too many things going on
in your head at the same time.
          I got to pretty much the water's edge
and started running up this way.
     Q.   That would be north?
     A.   Yeah, started running north.  The cloud
came over.  It wasn't too bad over here, the dust
cloud.  So we started -- we stayed pretty much
between River, by the park between -- I think we
made it as far as Murray  maybe in between these
two blocks here and the water.
          That was pretty much it.  We hung out
there.  There were a lot of police officers
around.  We saw a friend of ours from -- Officer
Torres from the 76th Precinct.  He was crying on
the steps behind Stuyvesant.  We stayed with him
because he said he just lost his partner.
(Inaudible) and caught up in that.  We consoled
him a little bit.
          We were trying to figure out what kind
of instructions we were going to get.  They
started saying go to Chelsea Piers up on the west
side.  We stayed there for, I don't know, maybe a
                  S. CUNNIFFE                  12
half hour.
          There was a pay phone there, and the
line for the pay phone was like 12, 15 people
long.  So I said I've got to call my wife just to
let her know I'm okay.  I waited on the line.  I
met up with Felton again -- from the lobby, which
is when I got separated from him.  But as I was
running, I saw him pass me by.  At least I was
relieved.
          I had a lot of things going on.  My
sister works in two.  I didn't know if she was
still in there, if she got out.
     Q.   Did you ever make that phone call?
     A.   Yeah, yeah.  I waited on that line, and
I waited.  As soon as I get up there, I asked
somebody for a quarter, because I didn't even
have a quarter.  Trying to get a line, it took
eight or nine times just to get a phone line and
dial tone.  Go figure, as soon as I dial the
number and waste the quarter the line is busy,
because she is calling here, probably.  So it
took me a while to get through, but I finally got
through.
          I asked her, "Did you hear from my
                  S. CUNNIFFE                  13
sister?"  Her uncle works there also.  She didn't
know anything, and I didn't know anything.  It
was just "I'm okay and I'm going to come home."
          At the time I was on the phone, Felton
was in front of me on the phone.  He made his
phone call already.  He started walking back.  I
kept yelling at him, "Don't go back there.  Stay
with me."  Because he's only here a year.
          It was kind of funny.  I was nervous
for him, because he wasn't even listening to me.
I said, "Stay here with me.  We'll go back
together.  I don't want to be separated from you
again.  I can't get a frigging line out on this
phone."  But he kept walking and walking.  I was
like, where the hell is this kid going?
          So about 15, 20 minutes later, I
finished my phone call and I start heading back
towards Vesey, towards North End.  I guess it was
like up here.  That's when I saw him with this
big cloud of dust turn the corner, with his head
sticking out of the vehicle saying, "I've got the
vehicle.  I saved the vehicle."  It was like"
Yeah, yeah, yeah.  It was a piece of crap.  It
dies on us twice a week.  You should have let it
                  S. CUNNIFFE                  14
be buried.  Maybe we'll get a new one."
          We got in the vehicle.  We started
collecting -- there were a couple firefighters
down there.  We were helping them collect some
equipment.  There were a lot of firefighters that
just dropped their packs.  They were going around
in a little golf cart.  Some civilians had Scott
packs and said, "Somebody left this."  We were
throwing them in the back.
          We were heading back towards west side,
and I guess we made it -- I don't even know
where, to tell you the truth.  We had to make a
U-turn in an empty lot.  I guess it was like
Vesey and North End again to this corner, and we
saw -- do you know Abdo?
     Q.   Yeah, Abdo.
     A.   What is he, a lieutenant?
     Q.   Yeah.  He's a captain.  He's a captain.
     A.   Is his last name Abdo or his first
name?
     Q.   His first name.  Captain Abdo Nahmod.
     A.   I know him from Lutheran, but I didn't
really know what his rank was.  I saw him a
couple times over here on Myrtle.  But Abdo was
                  S. CUNNIFFE                  15
there, and he was telling us to make a U-turn
because there was a main, gas main, leaking or
something.  We just tried to circle, find a way.
We circled back to the west side.
          We picked up some people on the West
Side Highway, and we went up to Chelsea.  That's
it.  Chelsea, we stayed there for a while, just
doing circles when the troops came in.  We got a
little bit bored and said, screw this, we're not
wasting our time.  There's people down there that
need help and we're sitting here.
          So we went back down and picked up an
officer and a construction worker, went with them
to staging, went back down, picked up more police
officers and firefighters, brought them back up.
We were doing transport between, say, Vesey and
Chelsea, back and forth.  We got somebody with an
MI, a construction worker with an MI.
     Q.   Did you transport him to the hospital?
     A.   Yeah.  There was a staging point
somewhere on the west side.  It wasn't as far
down as Vesey.
     Q.   Canal.
     A.   No, it was below -- it was between the
                  S. CUNNIFFE                  16
tunnel and Vesey Street.  There's a staging.
     Q.   Chambers.
     A.   Yeah.  I don't know who the supervisor
was.  There was an EMS supervisor.  Any vehicle
pretty much that passed him he stopped and he
commandeered everybody's equipment, like throw it
here.  He had a curb full of tech bags, oxygen
bags, de-fibs, software.  So he pretty much
stripped the bus.
          We had the patient with the MI.  He
gave me a paramedic; I forget his name too.  He
took my partner, Felton, off the vehicle.  So
Felton got off, me and the paramedic, we
transported one to hospital 02.
          From there there was a place to restock
your vehicles.  We dropped him off and restocked
the vehicle as much as we could.  We went back
and got held up at the staging at Chelsea Piers
again.  That was pretty much -- from one staging
point to the other.  From there they said, "Okay,
we need two vehicles to go down to South Street
staging."  So we go down there.  "We don't need
you here."  We ended up going to the Greenwich
area staging, the command post staging.  We
                  S. CUNNIFFE                  17
pretty much stayed there the whole night with
Chief Wells.
          That was it.
     Q.   Thank you.
     A.   Time-wise.
          MR. DUN:  This concludes the interview.
     The time is 835 hours.
File No. 9110165
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
            EMT ROBERT COOK
   Interview Date:  October 25, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
R. COOK
2
          MR. DUN:  Today's date is October 25, 2001.
The time is 0848 hours.  I am Richard Dun with the New
York City Fire Department working with Marisa Abbriano,
also with the New York City Fire Department.  We're
conducting an interview with...
          THE WITNESS:  Robert Cook.
          MR. DUN:  Shield?
          THE WITNESS:  Shield 3719.
          MR. DUN:  Of Battalion 31.
     Q.   Robert, in your own words, just please
describe the events leading up to and after September
11th.
     A.   Up to it?  Well, we were getting fuel at
Ladder 118 when people were coming up to the firehouse,
it's right over on Midagh Street and Henry, telling us
that a plane hit the World Trade Center.  We took
ourselves off the pumps, drew up to the corner.  A
bunch of firemen came out of the firehouse, went to the
corner.  You could see the first tower on fire.  So
then we were available, they assigned us to the call,
they said to switch over to Citywide.
          We proceeded over the bridge.  Once we got
over the bridge, the second plane hit.  There was an
explosion.  We didn't know it was a second plane.  We
R. COOK
3
thought it was just exploding from the first plane.
Then over Citywide we heard people saying it was a
second plane and it was deliberate.
          We proceeded down west on Chambers Street,
made a left on West Broadway.  Coming down on West
Broadway, we were flagged on the corner by a state
correction officer.  There we observed a female laying
on the corner and several other patients standing
around stating that they were injured.  We had a
private ambulance also there on the scene.  They
assisted us with long boarding this female and
splinting her leg with a tib/fib fracture.
     Q.   At this point, what part were you there?
Were you there for the first collision or the second
collision?
     A.   The second collision.
     Q.   The second plane went into the building?
     A.   As we were on Chambers Street.
     Q.   But the buildings were still standing?
     A.   Still standing, yes.  They were still
standing.  The whole time we were in Manhattan, they
were still standing and you could feel the heat coming
all the way over to there.
          We proceeded to get about five patients into
R. COOK
4
the ambulance.  We notified the supervisor that we had
five patients.  He said he'll check to see where we
could transport the patients.  He told us that he was
ordered to have us, if they were not in extremis, to be
transported out of the borough.  So we proceeded to go
to Long Island College with five patients.
          On the way to Long Island College, going in
to Long Island College is when the first building
collapsed, and then the second building came down also
while we were still there getting the patients out.  We
were tied up a little bit at Long Island College
because we had police cars coming in and transit cars
coming with patients, so we had to assist them to
unblock us, get all the patients out.
          Out of Long Island College, we got the
stretcher back into the back of the truck and we were
going to proceed back over the bridge.  We had hit
traffic all over the place in downtown Brooklyn trying
to get back to the bridge.  By the time we made it back
to the Brooklyn Bridge, there was a chief there, an EMS
chief, I don't know who she was, and I met up with
Lieutenant Lugo and we were starting a triage post
there.  There was another unit, 32 Charlie, I believe,
was also there.  So we had about, I believe, four EMS
R. COOK
5
units and we commandeered about, I'd say, seven to
eight private ambulances and we had a triage system
going on there, and I was designated to be transport
officer, which means that anybody coming in, anybody
needs to be transported, I would tell which ambulance
they would go in.
          We were held there for about I'd say maybe
two hours before they released us back to 911 and they
left the private ambulances there.  So then we
proceeded back to the station, BBP'd the ambulance and
went back out as a 911 unit.
     Q.   So both towers were still up the whole time
that you were there?  One tower went down --
     A.   When we were going to Long Island College.
When we were at the College, the second plane came in.
     Q.   The second tower?
     A.   Yes.  So that's basically it.  We never made
it in to the forward command post.  Then we went back
and we couldn't make it over the Brooklyn Bridge
because of all the pedestrian traffic coming across,
and that's when we all set up the triage there and we
triaged patients.  Then Victory Memorial had a big MERV
set up there and also they said they had a triage
system set up at the Marriott Hotel.
R. COOK
6
          That's about it.  That's all.  I know it's
nothing spectacular.
          MR. DUN:  Okay.  Well, this will help because
now we know some patients and things like that.
          This concludes the interview with Robert
Cook.  The time is 0852 hours.
File No. 9110166
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      BATTALION CHIEF BRIAN DIXON
   Interview Date:  October 25, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
B. DIXON 2
          MR. CAMPBELL:  Today's date is October
     25th.  The time is 12:41 p.m.   This is
     Patrick Campbell, fire marshal of the Fire
     Department of the City of New York.  I'm
     conducting an interview regarding the events
     of September 11th.  I'm here with Battalion
     Chief Brian Dixon in his office.  Also
     present is --
          MR. STEPONAITIS:  Fire Marshal Stephen
     Steponaitis, Fire Department.
          MR. CAMPBELL:  You can identify
     yourself too.
          CHIEF DIXON:  Battalion Chief Brian
     Dixon.
     Q.   Chief, we're conducting an interview,
just like I said, regarding the events of
September 11th.  What we're looking for is from
the time that you became aware of the incident up
until any time during the day.  We're looking for
people you'd seen, just what you noticed around
you.  You can just go on on your own.
     A.   I was in the office that morning.  If I
refer to the time line now I received, it was
right after -- I guess as soon as the plane hit.
B. DIXON 3
Someone came into the office and just told me
that a plane had hit the World Trade tower.  I
assumed it was a small plane, an aviation
accident, and I thought he was kidding also.
I went out to the main press office to lookatit. IthinkbythentheTVwasonandit showed it and I could see the tower. I grabbed the car. Mine was in the shop, so I borrowed one of our spare vehicles and just responded out. I grabbed a vehicle and went downstairs and responded out to it, figuring it was a press event, obviously, of magnitude.
          I started over the Brooklyn Bridge.  I
kind of got into a -- I'm not sure who it was.
It could very well have been 207 and 110, because
I came across and picked them up partway going
across the Brooklyn Bridge.  I think by that
time -- I can't remember whether the bridge was
shut down yet or not.  The police were waving me
on.
          I came across the bridge and could see
the north tower, thick black smoke billowing up
from the upper floors.  It's hard to tell what
floor, but it was way up high.  So it looked like
B. DIXON 4
it had hit ten floors below maybe the top.  I'm
gauging ten to twenty floors below.
          I see the smoke and I hear the radio
reports that it penetrated the skin.  At some
point coming across also I hear the radio reports
also that they had confirmed they had jumpers.
That's early on, before I even get off the
bridge.
          I sort of wound up in a convoy with the
battalion.  I'm guessing I think it was 207 or
110.  I wound up with the 31.  They responded
over also.  I got in with them.  I went down
Broadway and parked facing southbound, on
Broadway southbound.  I parked on Broadway and
Liberty.
          One of the engines pulled in right
behind me, because there's a hydrant right there.
So I pulled past that engine.  I think it was
110.  I think the truck turned up the street.
Rather than drive down Liberty, I think they
turned up it to come down.
          I just pulled up to the street there,
just put the car in gear, in park, and hear this
horrendous boom.  It shook the car.  I figured
B. DIXON 5
somebody in the north tower exploded.  Then like
a Godzilla movie, everybody that had been
standing in that little park there across from
One Liberty Plaza and had been just looking up
and watching the north tower burn just started
running eastbound like they were being chased by
someone.
          I jumped out of the car.  I looked up
and the south tower -- that must have been the
time that the plane had just struck the south
tower.  Now I see the south tower also.  Somebody
was saying there's another plane.
          At that point I assumed you can't have
two -- it can't be an accident to have two
planes.  So, I don't know if there's planes or
missiles or what but something was hitting this
thing.  You saw debris was falling down.
          Since I didn't have my vehicle, I had
no gear.  So, I started down the block.  Then the
31 Battalion actually pulled into the -- I'll
look at the map -- they were on -- where was I?
I was on Liberty.  They were probably on
Cortlandt.  They were parked on Cortlandt and
Broadway.
B. DIXON 6
          I asked him if he had any gear.  He
said no.  I started halfway down, and he caught
me and yelled back he did have some extra gear in
the car.  So I grabbed a coat and a helmet.
          I continued down Liberty.  There's
stuff I'm stepping over.  10 and 10, I just
looked in.  They looked like they were triaging,
a few people sitting -- everybody was out of
quarters already, but there was somebody in there
sitting on a seat.  Someone was being treated at
this time.  There were police in the street
waving people the other way.  Most of the people
had already fled.  As I walked down, there's
nobody there but the PD, and they were running
people out of there.
          Debris was falling down but not at any
great point.  By the time I started to pass by in
front of 10 and 10.  As I got down a little
farther, there was what looked to be a piece of
the cabin of the airplane, I guess.  It looked
like a piece of it about maybe six foot long.  It
looked like the windows.
     Q.   This is on Liberty?
     A.   This is on Liberty and just west of 10
B. DIXON 7
and 10, whatever that next building is there.
Now that I think back, I guess it could have
been -- I don't know if it was the windows.  It
actually looked like the rounded cutout of the
windows of the cabin of a plane.
          I continued heading down Liberty
towards West Street.  When I passed by the
Marriott, I see the aide from the 31 Battalion
was in the lobby of the Marriott.  He came
running out yelling to me:  You have about 40 or
50 people in there in the lobby.  I said let's
get them out and we'll go run them across the
street.
          He took them out.  I think there was a
police officer helping him too.  That guy, he
came out and he just started moving them south on
West Street.
     Q.   The Marriott Vista?
     A.   I call it the Marriott.  It's the one
on the corner of Liberty and West.  So that would
be --
     Q.   Vista International.  It is the
Marriott.
     A.   Yeah, the Vista International.
B. DIXON 8
          On that side door, that side door on
Liberty, the entrance to the hotel there, he was
in the lobby there.  Everybody in the lobby just
came out.  I saw him as I was going past, so I
started ushering them out.  There were police and
people on the other side by the south bridge, so
they ran them down there and across the street,
because there was a parking lot on the corner
opposite there also.  There were cars burning in
there as we passed by.  There were a couple of
cars burning in that parking lot already from the
debris that had fallen down.  He ran them out.
          I continued across West Street.  I
can't tell you why I continued to cross, if you
go sort of to the front of the building.  I made
my way down West Street.  I'm not sure at what
point I saw Gribbon.  He might have been walking
down the street.  I'm trying to remember now.
          The command post must have been set up
because in my mind I'm looking for the 8 command
post.  I remember I didn't look in either one of
the towers for it.  So they must have been there
because I just walked on West Street across and
over to the command post.
B. DIXON 9
          What vehicles I passed on the way I
can't really tell you.  I mean, the people were
in already in the one tower.
     Q.   Were there any rigs along --
     A.   I don't remember any being in front of
the Vista or anything yet in front of -- that
would be tower two.  Tower two is set back.  On
West Street in that area.  That's the south area
towards Liberty, and in front of the Vista, I
don't remember any rigs there.  But there's a lot
I don't remember.
          I got over to the command post.  I got
hooked up with Frank and went over to the command
post.  I'm trying to think of who was there.  I'm
at the command post in front of -- it was already
set up, so it's not like -- they had been there.
They were set up on that ramp leading down to the
underground garage by what looks like the booth.
There's a booth out there too, I think, on that
ramp.
     Q.   Right, we saw it on the video, that
videotape.
     A.   Yeah, they're set up out there.
          Who was there at that point?  I'm
B. DIXON 10
guessing Pete Hayden was there.  I'm trying to
remember exactly who I was standing next to.  I
looked around.  I was just looking at the time
for cameras.  I see rigs in front.  I couldn't
tell you who.  Obviously there were rigs all over
in front of one, the north tower, in front of
that.
          At some point the decision is made we
should clear a lane, because everybody's parked
in all the traffic lanes on West Street.  They're
parked in a circle.  The rigs are parked in that
circle, but I don't know -- I just assumed it was
10 and 10.  That's just based on the fact that
they are right there.  They would have come out
of quarters.  Their normal routine is for them to
go into that circle.  There were definitely rigs
in a circle close to the entrance of One World
Trade.  There were other rigs in the street,
police vehicles all over.
          At one point we wanted to move some
vehicles, so we started looking for chauffeurs.
I know Tommy McDonald took a rescue rig or a
hazmat rig, one of the rigs, and drove it right
up on the lawn next to the Financial Center on
B. DIXON 11
the grass there, which is either One or Two, I'm
not sure.  It's the American Express Building,
over there.
     Q.   That's Two World Financial Center?
     A.   It's probably American Express.  It
would be just south of that north bridge, the
northernmost bridge.  You had a lawn area there,
and he just drove it straight up in there to get
out of the way.  They were looking for other
people to move things.
          Ganci was at the command post.  I'm
pretty sure Feehan was at the command post with
us.  I was there when the Mayor came over with
his people, his security people.  He stood out
front and was watching.  There were other
companies too kind of staged there.
          The Mayor came over, and we were trying
to find Von Essen for him.  I'm guessing now at
that point that, I think we heard someone say
they thought he was in the tower, he was in one.
Somebody went to get him so he could hook up with
the Mayor.
          Ganci briefed the Mayor, I believe,
because Ganci was at the command post.  So he
B. DIXON 12
went over and briefed the Mayor.  Then the Mayor
and his group walked away.
          There was a reporter there from ABC, I
know, and a guy with a camera.  I was somewhat
concerned, but then I figured there's not much
you can do to stop the guy in the street.  Where
are you going to push him to?  He was back just
photographing.  It wasn't too bad.
          But then at some point we're standing
there and then we started to see a number of
people jumping.  There had to be a dozen at
least, jumping  and just thumping.  There were a
couple companies standing there.
          I guess there was some debris falling
down from the other one, nothing that seemed to
hit our side of the street.  At one point one of
the chiefs said why doesn't everyone move back
off the board here and stand in the watch way of
the garage there.  Some did.  Some still stayed
up on the ramp.
          It was a frustrating and helpless
feeling.  You could see the guys -- every time a
body jumped, you just heard this thump, thump.
So a lot of them were turning away.  There wasn't
B. DIXON 13
much you could do.
          At that point still from that vantage
point actually looking up -- I'm looking at the
tower, at one, and two is set back.  Obviously
the south one is set back farther.  I don't
recall a lot of flame from that vantage point,
from looking up from the west side of West
Street.  People were standing out there.
          A lot of smoke drifting up, a lot of
dark black smoke drifting up on tower one from
the lowest floor of fire, obscuring the top
somewhat.  I didn't see a lot of flame coming out
of windows or anything.
          The thought crosses your mind:  How are
we going to put this out?  You know you're
sending people out.  I remember Ganci asking for
two fifth alarms, a fifth alarm for one tower, a
fifth alarm for the other, and he wanted more for
staging.
          We were going to change the staging
area too.  I forget when that happened.  I guess
I was standing there for quite a while and saw --
I went in at one point to make a phone call, and
that I guess was while the people were jumping.
B. DIXON 14
          At one point I broke off to go -- I
went up the ramp and walked out to the sidewalk.
There was a railing there so you couldn't just
make a left and walk into the building.  So I had
to go out to the street and back around.
          I went in the building and found a
phone at a fire command station.  There was a
phone there, and I asked one of the people to use
the phone.  Just to call your office and update
them on what was happening here, tell them I was
there, tell them we had two planes.
          They kind of told me about the Pentagon
being hit at that point.  They had that
information too.  So they told me that.  I just
explained to them we're here and what the
operation was going on there.  I knew they were
getting bombarded with phone calls from the
press.
          I walked back out to the command post.
I believe Feehan was there at that point too.  We
were all kind of around the board, walking back
and forth.  Again, time-wise I don't know when it
was I came back there, I was standing there and
just listening and paying attention just in a
B. DIXON 15
sense buffing at what they were doing at the
board.
          Ganci was just figuring out where they
were putting people.  I was watching the fire,
watching the people jump and hearing a noise and
looking up and seeing -- it actually looked --
the lowest floor of fire in the south tower
actually looked like someone had planted
explosives around it because the whole bottom I
could see -- I could see two sides of it and the
other side -- it just looked like that floor blew
out.
          I looked up and you could actually see
everything blew out on the one floor.  I thought,
geez, this looks like an explosion up there, it
blew out.  Then I guess in some sense of time we
looked at it and realized, no, actually it just
collapsed.  That's what blew out the windows, not
that there was an explosion there but that
windows blew out.
          The realization hit that it's going to
fall down, the top's coming off.  I was still
thinking -- there was never a thought that this
whole thing is coming down.  I thought that that
B. DIXON 16
blew out and stuff is starting to fly down.  The
top is going to topple off there.
          Somebody yelled to run.  We turned
around and somebody yelled -- a guy said get back
into the garage.  Not that I thought that was a
great idea if this thing fell on the building,
but there really wasn't that much time to go back
out in the street up and around again.  It was
one of those whoops, here it comes.
          So we turned and went down the ramp.
Everybody that was at the command post I believe
went down the ramp, Ganci included.  We turned
around, went down and there were probably two
companies at least there, it seemed.  They went
down and in.
          There was a cop there who fell down in
front of me.  He fell down, so I stopped to pick
him up and get him up there.  I didn't get all
the way back.  As I just got in under the
entrance there, I got just a little ways back and
it was just like -- you hear the noise, a boom,
and then a blast of air.  It just kind of threw
me against the wall.  That's where I decided to
stay.  Since it blew me there, I just hung on the
wall.
B. DIXON 17
          It just drove everything, all the dust
and debris and everything down into the garage.
I didn't know what the hell was happening.  It
just got totally black.  It was not stratified
like smoke, so from floor to ceiling is just
totally black.
          You just think, well, I guess this is
how it ends, this is it, not knowing what the
hell had happened and just start choking and
gagging.  I lost track of time.  I don't know how
long it was.  It was very quiet.  It got black,
then it got a little less black and it got more
brown or gray, just a little bit.  I was still
not seeing much.  My eyes were burning and I was
inhaling all kinds of shit and just coughing up
everything.
          It was quiet, and then you start to
hear people.  I realized there were two other
people near me in a little cutout there or
something.  There was actually a mask there with
no face piece on it.  Then two guys said we're
all right.  There's nothing laying on us.  We're
okay.  I don't know what is back up the ramp, but
B. DIXON 18
we're all right.
          Then guys were sort of like assisting,
they went past me and I said all right, all
right, calm down, we're all right, nothing yet.
I saw a lot of dust and everybody coughing.  Then
somebody said follow the lights.  I sort of saw a
flashlight back in the distance there.
          In my mind I know, all right, there's
got to be a door from the garage back up into the
building.  Nothing's laying on us.  I'm assuming
whatever fell off this building could have come
down and crashed into the front.  I don't know if
it's blocked, the ramp, or not.
          So I started back that way.  These two
guys had passed me and were moving slowly.  For
some reason I didn't follow that way.  I looked
back and it just seemed like a little crack of
light.
          I said all right, wait a minute, you
can see up the ramp.  It's not blocked with
anything.  So rather than go back through the
whole thing, I just kind of made my way back up
the ramp.  I wasn't that far down it anyway.  I
could see.
B. DIXON 19
     Q.   They were still with you, the command
post guys?
     A.   It seemed like that was the only guy
that went that way.  As I say, they all seemed to
go back the other way.  I don't remember anyone
coming back up the ramp with me.  But I went back
up and peered out.  I'm expecting to look up and
see that the top of the building fell into the
street.
          I look and what I see is about 20
stories left of a building and jagged edges on
the south side.  It was like 20 stories, maybe,
or so and on the north side of that tower down to
about maybe 10 or 15 stories on the south side of
it.
          It's like I can't believe the whole
building is down.  I was dumbfounded.  There was
paper and ash and everything out there.  I look
back now and I must have been in a state of
shock, because the only thing that stopped me
really from going back the other way with anybody
else was I said I guess I should call the office
and tell them what happened.  So I went back up
the ramp and back around because I knew there was
B. DIXON 20
a phone where I had made the phone call before so
I went back in the building.
          Two firemen came through.  I don't know
where they were from.  They were truckies.  They
were looking at me saying who are you?  I had on
a suit and shirt and tie with the turnout coat
over it holding my helmet and I'm covered with
frigging dust.
          As I looked afterwards, I was just
covered with the shit, you know, choking and
gagging.  They wanted to take me somewhere, take
me out the back of the building.  They said,
"Come out the back."  I said no, I'm all right,
it's okay, I'm all right.  They said, "You don't
look all right."  I said no, I need to make a
call.
          I go to the phone.  The phone has been
knocked off the frigging wall.  The lines are
out.  I walked back outside.  I convinced them to
leave me alone and walked back out of the front
of the building again.
          I don't see anybody at this point, even
to the point of a cop saying:  "Do you guys have
anybody in the building?"  I told him no, we
B. DIXON 21
don't have anybody in the building.  There must
have been at least a second alarm in the
building.  I'm realizing where the hell is
everybody?  This thing fell down.  Did people get
out of there?
          I saw one other guy there.  Again,
faces and front pieces I don't know.  I just said
to the guy, "Where is everybody who was in there?
What happened to the people who went to" -- he
said, "Everybody who went into the garage got
out.  Everybody's all right."  I said, "All
right, that's us.  But I don't see anybody."
          I thought at that point that I actually
saw Feehan, but I'm thinking that I'm mixed up
and it might be that I just saw him in the
beginning, walking down the street in the
beginning.  That was probably before the towers
came down that we were talking and he was walking
in the street.  I probably didn't see him at that
point.  I didn't see Ganci.  At some point --
again time frame I'm wondering -- I see Turi, Al
Turi, coming down.  He said we're going to move
the command post north to Chambers Street, we're
moving north to Chambers Street, let's get
B. DIXON 22
everybody north.  So, whoever was standing
around, all right, we're going north.  He walked
down a little more and he had a bullhorn and told
people move down, we're moving the command post,
we're moving the command post.  He moved folks
north -- it was very quiet.  I don't remember
seeing anybody else except him.  There had to be
other guys around there.  But I just don't
remember.  I think I was in a state of shock.
     Q.   Do you remember hearing anything or any
kind of transmissions coming over?
     A.   No, I wasn't wearing a radio,
unfortunately, and I wasn't near anyone with a
radio.  There was nothing on the guys' radios,
the two guys in the building that found me, the
two guys that were inside the building when I
went back in to use the phone, which I never got
to use.  I don't remember anything coming over
their talkies either.
          So I'm out in the street and it had to
be half an hour because I'm there when the second
one comes down too and I'm not far north on Vesey
when I hear the same noise again and look up and
realize oh, this one's coming down.
B. DIXON 23
     Q.   Where were you when that happened?
     A.   Probably just on West Street north
of -- north of the bridge, probably just a bit
north of Vesey Street, actually, because I had
stayed down there.  I can't remember even seeing
that many people.  I was just saying okay, we're
moving the command post north.  I was just trying
to figure out where is everybody.  I'm not seeing
anybody.
          When that one came down, I heard the
rumble on that.  That started to come down.  Now
I know I'm not alone.  All of these people I see
were running up West Street, and I just started
north on West Street running.  I don't know how
far I got.  I heard a boom behind me, I looked
back and I knew I had to outrun the debris.  I
saw like 150 feet of the cloud.  I figured I
didn't outrun it the last time and I don't think
I'm going to outrun it this time either.  So I
got caught up in that again, the thick cloud.
          I actually at one point jumped into
a -- it was one of the parked cars.  I just
jumped into one of the vehicles or sedans,
something, farther up.  I jumped in there.  The
B. DIXON 24
door was open.  I jumped in.  This car had
electric windows and it was half open.  That's
when the black cloud came rolling down West
Street.  I just stayed there, caught my breath
and figured I don't think I want to stay in here
anyway, so I jumped out, just ran a lit farther.
It cleared by the time I got to I guess Chambers
probably before it cleared or the block before
Chambers.  So I stumbled down there by
Stuyvesant, the bridge at Stuyvesant High School.
     Q.   Was anybody in the rigs that you passed
on the way up there?  There were rigs parked
along there?
     A.   Most of them were sedans, actually.
There was one truck, but that was parked pretty
far up now too.  I thought that was a flashlight
and walked into it.  But that's in the cloud, so
I don't know what it was, I really don't.  In
that sense, I don't have any better information
than that.  No, who was up there?  I guess it was
Turi.  I wandered the rest of the day.  When they
relocated the command post, I stayed up there, I
don't know how much longer it was.  I kept asking
where is Feehan and Ganci, all the people that
B. DIXON 25
were at the command post, where are these people?
Nobody knows.  Where's Nigro?  Does anybody know
where Nigro is?  He came out later after about
half an hour or so, because I thought he had been
caught in it too.  He came around to the command
post.  Callan was at the command post at that
point.  Probably Turi.  Turi was there.
     Q.   Did you ever see anyone, Burns or --
     A.   No, no, I never saw.  I never did.  For
some reason I never got -- I was walking around
in a pair of loafers, so I was useless in the
rubble.  No, I just walked up and after a while
got a shower and cleaned my eyes out.
          I didn't get back down there.  At this
point when the north tower comes down, walking
down there, everything is kind of like -- you
can't get to the other side where I think most of
the people or the digging was going on initially
was happening --
     Q.   South.
     A.   -- south.
     Q.   The bridge.
     A.   At this point when the bridge came
down, the north bridge came down, I was stuck
B. DIXON 26
there.  I think it took Nigro a long time just to
get around to get back to where we were at
Chambers and Stuyvesant, probably a block south
of that, actually, initially when we were at the
command post.  That's where we said we were
moving to, Chambers, I'm not so sure that's where
we were.  Maybe we were up there, because at that
point they were talking about secondary devices.
Stuyvesant High School, at some point later they
talked about that.  I stayed by the command post,
really, for the rest of the day.  I walked down a
little bit.
          I look back on it now, I think I was in
a state of shock, because I'm not noticing people
around me.  I'm telling this guy first there's
nobody in the building.  As soon as he walks
away, I said nobody in the building?  Jesus
Christ, where are they?
          I was standing at the command post and
trying to figure out -- that is when we started
to figure we have to get some idea of who we
have, who's here.  There's been tons of
firefighter companies.  How are we going to
figure out --
B. DIXON 27
     Q.   Who's missing?
     A.   Yeah, we have to get the riding list
for them.  There was a discussion about that, how
we are going to get to every fire house and get
their journal for the roll call and figure out
who was working, who we're looking for.
          But yeah, as far as seeing rigs and
things like that, like I said, I went into the
command post there because they had the command
post set up across the street.  I wasn't looking
at as I would operationally.  I'm looking at it
from a media perspective.  That's where they all
come to, so we'll chase them when they get here.
     Q.   So after that you were mostly north?
     A.   I was north, yeah.  Like I say, I would
guess only because -- only because I went in
before to use the phone.  There were so many
jumpers.  I had to tell them what was going on.
I hadn't spoken to them since the second plane.
So I told them we have two towers burning.  Give
New Yorkers an update so they can get some
information out.
     Q.   You never saw anyone else from the
command post?
B. DIXON 28
     A.   After we all ran in, I didn't see them
again.  So they had to have made that move south
maybe when I was in the building.  They went deep
into the garage, found the stairwell and then
they might have come out farther south, come out
of the World Financial Center or the Winter
Garden, I don't know where they came out, but
they came out a different way.  I went up the
ramp and into what is I guess is one, maybe the
American Express -- the north side -- north of
the garage.  Under the bridge, actually.  Under
that north bridge I went in.  The fact that I was
in there and there were two firemen trying to
make phone calls, that's probably the only thing
that stopped me from heading south, because I
would have headed south with them if I saw them.
When I got back out, I didn't see anyone.  So I
didn't know where anybody was.  I didn't have a
radio.  I didn't have my car, so I had nothing.
I opened my trunk and had absolutely nothing, no
bunker gear, no radio, nothing.
     Q.   Do you have anything further?
     A.   It's like my eyes weren't open.
     Q.   That's all right.  Everybody says it.
B. DIXON 29
I don't think --
     A.   I can compare it because that kid
before, Brian Kearney, that was blown out of a
window in the Astoria fire, and I responded to
that from home.  When I got there, everybody's
walking around, we think there's three guys
missing.  How come everybody's out walking
around?  It's because the whole first line
assigned was blown out of the building and
they're still dazed.
          I was asking myself why was I walking
around.  I was stunned.  I can't remember rigs
or -- I don't remember companies that were
standing at the command post.  I don't know the
names.  It's like I was standing there, and they
were walking by but I'm not really -- I'm not too
familiar really with the lower Manhattan
companies to begin with.  It's not like any of
the officers came up there that I knew.  The
field com. van was there.  Other than the field
com., a spare motor vehicle was nearby, by the
lamppost.  They were there.  Hayden, Ganci.  As
far as the companies, as I say, there were a
couple companies there, people, but nobody -- I
B. DIXON 30
can't remember who they were that were standing
there, waiting for assignments.
     Q.   All right.  That's good.  Thank you.
     A.   Not helpful, but that's all I have.
          MR. CAMPBELL:  The time is 1:15.  This
     concludes the interview.  Thank you very
     much. p
File No. 9110167
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
   DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FRANK GRIBBON
   Interview Date:  October 25, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
F. GRIBBON
2
          MR. CAMPBELL:  Today's date is October 25.
     It's 11:30.  We are in the office of Francis
     Gribbon.  This is Patrick Campbell, Fire Marshal,
     of the New York City Fire Department.  We are
     conducting an interview with the following
     individual, with the Fire Department, regarding
     the events of September 11.  Present in the room
     also is --
          MR. STEPONAITIS:  Fire Marshal Stephen
     Steponaitis.
          MR. CAMPBELL:  And --
          MR. GRIBBON:  Frank Gribbon, Deputy Fire
     Commissioner, Public Information.
          MR. CAMPBELL:  We are trying to -- fact
     finding -- trying to memorialize the events as
     they happened on September 11.
     Q.   Starting from the time when you were aware of
the attack at the World Trade Center, we want to know
where you were, how you became aware and just tell us
your story.
     A.   Okay.  At about 8:55 a.m. actually, I
simultaneously received a page and a phone call from my
office that a plane had struck the Trade Center and
that Brian Dixon, the Deputy Director, was responding.
F. GRIBBON
3
David Billig from my office called me just as I got the
page of a third alarm.  I was on First Avenue in
Manhattan.  I got on the FDR Drive and I headed south.
I responded obviously.
          At about somewhere north of the Manhattan
Bridge, I could see the smoke and as I approached the
bridge, you could see several floors of fire.  I had
the same reaction as everybody did, I'm sure, when they
saw it.  It was just a certain horrific sight.  Knowing
that all the -- what was happening there.  I got down
to the end of the drive in the tunnel, which brings you
around the Battery and you come up.  There was some
traffic.  I was down there with some other emergency
vehicles trying to get through.  It was backed up a
bit.  When I came out, the two towers were now going.
          So apparently that second tower was struck
while I was underground there in that tunnel.  When we
came out, a bit more traffic.  I made the first left I
could, parked my Department vehicle on one of the side
streets in the Battery Park City area, took out my
bunker gear, helmet and responded to the incident
command post that had been set up at -- on West Street,
on the west side of West Street, opposite tower number
one, or the north tower.
F. GRIBBON
4
          At that location were several dozen members
of the Department.  There was a command post being set
up or had been set up by Chief Ganci.  There were
several other people on the scene.  Chief Feehan I
believe.  I couldn't place the times for those people,
but there were a number of Department people there.  I
know that Ganci was there and soon after the Mayor and
his entourage arrived, with the Police Commissioner,
they stopped and spoke to people at the command post,
including Chief Ganci.  They subsequently left.  So a
few minutes after that the Fire Commissioner came and
was told that the Mayor was looking for him and he left
that location.  In the meantime more crews from the
Fire Department, units, were reporting into the command
post.  It was first located out towards the street and
was moved back I believe twice.  At the direction of
somebody in the safety division, somebody just said we
should move it back and they moved it back.
          Subsequently there is some videotape, which I
showed you guys just now, which I will provide to Chief
Garcia or the Marshals just to give you an idea of how
many people were there.  There were numerous faces and
people that I can identify.  But that command post was
drawn back into an area that sloped down a grade into a
F. GRIBBON
5
parking garage and loading dock for 2 World Financial
Center.  A lot of people -- I was in there for some
time, briefly with several other dozen members of the
Department that were staging there, subsequently being
the PIO for the Fire Department.  There was a news crew
that showed up, N.J. Burkett from Channel 7, was on the
sidewalk close to the street.  I went up and spoke to
him.  I told him he should get back.  I took his crew
as well as one or two photographers, I think one guy
from the Post.  I had them all stay against the facade
of the building there, 1 World Financial Center, I
believe it is.  The entrance was near the north bridge
there, what they call the north bridge connecting the
Trade Center and the World Financial Center.  So that
entrance was underneath the bridge.  They were standing
just outside of that to the south.
          He shot some footage, I showed you guys the
footage, which shows when we're standing there -- and
it is at some point -- I get there probably maybe
sometime between -- around 9:12 to 9:15.  So I'm there
for about 45 minutes, standing at the command post
inside that underground thing.  Then I come out and now
I'm standing on the street grade level, entrance, with
the north bridge, not the sloped tunnel into the
F. GRIBBON
6
garage, when tower two collapsed.  I heard shouts of
run for your life.  I was with a number of other people
that were standing at that location, probably two dozen
or more, we all fled into or ran into 1 World Financial
Center.  We -- because the entrance remained intact at
that point, we were not whited out like everybody else
was.  We were not in a cloud of like choking pulverized
concrete and all that.  There was some of it coming
into the building.  We all walked through the building
to the west and came out the rear of the building, on
to - I don't even know the name of the street there.  I
went out there, there was some mustering of EMS
personnel, fire personnel, who had escaped this.  I
remember seeing Commissioner Fitzpatrick, who must have
gotten through the garage and came out that way.
          After a few minutes I walked back through
World Financial Center to go back to West Street.  I
came through those doors and walked out, you know, into
the debris.  There was what I would describe as a
moderate amount of a smoke condition.  You couldn't see
across West Street.  But on the west side of the street
where I was, there was some visibility.  It was a
bright sunny day, but I recall it being overcast now.
It wasn't overcast, it was just overcast from the cloud
F. GRIBBON
7
of smoke which was hovering around the whole area.  It
appeared that it was a cloudy day now.  I remember
that.
          I walked out to that area, I remember seeing
Chief Ingram and I remember seeing -- I went into the
garage to see where everybody had been.  There was
Roger Moore, who was an EMS guy, on the ground.  He
couldn't move.  His two legs were -- I thought they
were broken, but I subsequently found out he ripped all
the muscles or something, tendons or ligaments or
something like that.  He couldn't move.  I spoke to
him, I told him to stay right there, that I would get a
crew, because I knew there were ambulances on the
street, so I went back up.  That garage was smoked out
too.  It was still -- it was still like a smoke
condition in that garage.  So I went the way I came.
          I went back to the World Financial Center,
through that building and came out of the rear side.
There were people being triaged there.  It may have
been at this point that I saw Commissioner Fitzpatrick.
     Q.   Is this on West or behind --
     A.   Behind the building.
     Q.   Maybe the map would help you figure it out?
     A.   Yes.  This is it.
F. GRIBBON
8
     Q.   West is over here.  Financial center?
     A.   North Street I guess it is.  North End
Avenue, it's actually.
     Q.   You went through two buildings?
     A.   I went through -- this is the pedestrian
bridge.  I went through 3 World Financial Center,
American Express building.  For the record here, I'm
looking at your map, according to your map, I go
through 3 World Financial Center, through this and
through 4 World Financial Center and come out on North
End Avenue where the Department members are sort of
triaging there, if this map is correct.  It was a long
walk, so it's likely that that was the case, that we
went through two or three, interconnected buildings.
     Q.   Was it like a winding hall?
     A.   Yes, it was like a Winter Garden type, I
remember that.  All glass enclosed with a restaurant or
mall type area.
     Q.   It's between 3 --
     A.   That's exactly it.  We go through 3, through
that glass enclosed mall area and through 4 and out on
to North End Avenue.  At that point there are Fire
Department members, there are a lot of EMS crews that
are sort of staging back there.  There is some injured
9
          I go on back out to West Street.  Roger Moore
is injured.  I come back, he can't be moved, he has got
to be either carried or - I will get to that part of
the story.  I'm on North End Avenue.  People are being
triaged.  I said I got a guy, I got an EMS guy, he
can't move.  He is on West Street.  We got to go get
him.  Two paramedics with a stretcher, I don't know
what their names are.  I get them, then I said come
with me, I got to get Roger Moore.  They said all
right, okay, all right.  They come with me.
          I got them, we go back through 4 World
Financial Center, through the glass enclosed
connection, through 3 World Financial Center.  I
basically traced my route back to the pedestrian bridge
on West Street.  We come through those doors.  I don't
know who I see, but now I know, because I've seen
videotape.  I have seen videotape from the French guys,
quote/unquote the Jules and Gideon (inaudible).  Et
cetera et cetera.  There they are filming, because I
have seen this.  I come through with the crew.  Chief
Pfeifer from the First Battalion is standing there
because I catch it on the video.  The two guys with the
F. GRIBBON
people.  I remember some secret service guys were
there.  Actually secret service happens later.
F. GRIBBON
10
EMS, myself and then the two guys with the stretcher.
          We go back to the location where Roger Moore
was, Roger Moore was gone.  A subsequent phone
conversation with him informed me that some guys
carried him.  That's exactly where I went to get him.
I knew it took them an awful long time to get him out.
He is a large heavy set man and some firemen carried
him.  I think he could give you the rest of his story.
He was gone.
          So I told that crew, two paramedics, or EMTs
with a stretcher, I said let's get out of here.  Let me
get you guys back.  We go back the way we came through,
3 and 4 World Financial Center, back to North End
Avenue.  At that point, there is a group of guys in
suits that start walking south on North End Avenue.  I
asked them who they were and they said they are secret
service and they are looking for one of their guys.  I
called out to some firemen because they are wearing
rubber gloves.  They got suits on.  I'm like these guys
don't even have helmets and gear on.  I'm geared up.  I
said let me try to get some firemen to go with you
guys.
          So a couple of firemen came with me.  We
start walking south and we get to - I couldn't name the
F. GRIBBON
11
street, but we walked south and then we start walking
east and their guys, they either - they found their
guys or they are okay.  They said, all right, we are
all right.  So now we start walking back towards what
has become sort of a staging area for fire personnel,
EMS, cops and everything else.
Q. Which is --
     A.   North End Avenue, behind four.  Sometime over
the next few minutes the other tower came down.
Q. You were --
     A.   I was back there walking down, actually
starting to head up Vesey Street to approach that way,
the site, when tower one comes down.  Tower one comes
down.  Then I head that way now and now it's just the
whole corner is filled with rigs, all the rigs are
destroyed, there are car fires all over the place.
There are some injured guys coming out.  EMS crews were
helping people come out.  We start working towards that
area there.  To say the least, it was like chaos.
          There were some firemen who were trying to
man hose lines.  We had no water pressure.  We are
searching for anybody we can there.  I did not have a
handy talky radio.  Time kind of gets a -- it's a
little fuzzy right now.  We were kind of numb and in
F. GRIBBON
12
shock at this point.  There were people working there.
I got -- I went to a rig and I took out a saw and I cut
-- there were about - seemed like 40 car fires going
to the left in a large lot.  That smoke condition was
bad.  There were explosions of windows and gas tanks,
whatever, and it was -- it wasn't a priority the car
fires.  After some time, trying to get assembled with
the Chief, again I see Chief Ingram at the scene at
this location now.  He was trying to get a game plan
together, you know, what are we going to do here.
          There were various hose lines all over the
place, but there was no water pressure.  We tried to
put out the various car fires.  I took a saw out of the
truck, I don't know what it was.  I cut the fence so
that we could open up a way to get in to put those car
fires out.
          I talked to the Chief about drafting water.
He said yes, the boat is coming.  So I walked down to
the river.  I sort of commandeered a running ambulance
with some other - there were some other guys.  We used
the ambulance to stretch the five and a half inch hose
from the pier.  We got in the ambulance and drove it.
I didn't drive.  I was in the passenger seat this time,
but I took the ambulance and backed it up to the site.
F. GRIBBON
13
I got out and some other officer got in and drove it.
I sat with him.  Guys in the back stretched that line
up to approximately a couple of hundred, two hundred
yards or so from West Street to the supply water.
          Then I was screaming at news crews.  I had to
go back to my PIO title.  Now I got reporters and
photographers all over the place.  More fire personnel
start to assemble at the corner of Vesey and West
there.  There are some Chiefs.  I remember at some
point in the day, Fellini was there and Visconti I
remember seeing.  There while they are talking, I saw
Mike Daly from the Daily News was there.  I remember
talking to him.  I lot of this stuff is blurry.
          This went on for hours.  You are there, you
are doing things, you are not doing things.  They are
worried that number 7 is burning and they are talking
about not ceasing operations.  I basically for the day
stayed at that location.  It wasn't until later that
night that I walked around, all the way back around, to
see what was going on at the other site.  That is
really where a lot of the rescue efforts were going on
on the south of that collapsed north bridge.  We
couldn't get past the north bridge.
     Q.   You are mostly on the north?
F. GRIBBON
14
     A.   I'm basically -- the majority of the rest of
the day I'm at Vesey and West at what I believe is the
command post.  I'm trying to keep the press away as
much as I can.  They're assembling up on like a
mountain of dirt that is located in that lot where the
car fires were burning.
     Q.   Next to the fires, right?
     A.   At some point we got the boats draft water
and it supplied a manifold and they started getting a
few hose lines going.  They got a tower ladder going.
I'm not engaged in firefighter operations so much any
more.  I started watching the press, I started talking
to the Chief.  I made a few trips inside to use the
phones to call here and to call my wife.  There was no
cell phone service down there.  It was difficult to get
a hard wire phone.
          So there was -- the thing I needed a lot was
communications and I don't have any really.  Other than
keeping the press at bay and asking the Chiefs if there
is anything that I can do for them.  I think Fellini, I
remember at some point later in the day sort of takes
control of this.  I remember seeing guys from 65 engine
that were working there that I know.  It was just
-- you are half dazed and half numb but I tried to get
F. GRIBBON
15
back to what my job is, which is press, so I'm keeping
them at bay, but I'm there until like one o'clock in
the morning.  I was trying to get some communications
back to here to my office.  Talking with the Chiefs
about what  -- that's essentially it, the details, the
fine details of everything that happened say from the
afternoon on.  I remember talking to some people.
     Q.   Did you ever make it back to the original
command post where it was set up?
     A.   Other than that time that I went back for
Roger Moore, no, because the second collapse destroyed
that whole area.  I mean if you look at pictures of
when I was out, we all would have been killed if that
had come down.  I don't know about underground, if they
would have been safe.  But I know, I did at some point
go back to where I was because I lost my cell phone
when we all fled.  I went through what I remember was a
revolving door and it was like you know, thinking about
holy shit, trying to run for your life and you are
going through a revolving door.  But I lost my phone,
so at some point I went back there through that
building to that exact location and that whole front of
that building was crushed.  It was a total collapse.
It was all debris.  I couldn't get back to that
F. GRIBBON
16
location the way I had come originally.
     Q.   How far was that from the north bridge?  That
was the north bridge?
     A.   Yes.  That was all collapsed, collapsed into
the building, you know, the interior of that building
was crushed.  I don't know at what point, how much
debris there was or how much from the facade was
collapsed.  All I know is I traced my steps right back
and at some point, I guess close to the entrance, was
all crushed.  I couldn't get back out that way.
          So as I said, I mostly stayed on West and
Vesey.  At some point in the night I went all the way
around the site to the location, which I guess would be
-- I'm going to say would be the equivalent of
somewhere around Dey Street or Cortlandt Street.
Opposite where the Vista Hotel was and 3 World Trade
Center.  That location, you know.
     Q.   Vista is 3 World Trade Center?
     A.   Vista is 3 World Trade Center, okay.  So
that's where -- I'm thinking about that site.  I don't
know if you -- you know, there were various points on
the site now that we are all aware of.  That's the one
between -- here's where I am.  At some point I came
back around.  I came through I guess the Winter Garden
F. GRIBBON
17
or whatever, or maybe through 2.  I came back, I guess,
here.  I guess it would be right here, which is
opposite Dey Street, if you go all the way to the
east.
          I'm there at night and I remember throwing an
ABC crew out that had that gotten in with Pataki.  I
told them to get out of there.  They were with the
Governor and I said it doesn't matter.  You've got to
get out of here.  There is no press here.  I remember
seeing Brian Dixon from my office, who was also there.
The press had all been pushed back to beyond Chambers
Street, north of Chambers Street, and he had been with
them up there.  But I stayed at the site, just to
-- the lack of communications was a problem for me,
communicating with my office.  I told them in several
conversations to give nothing out.  We had no
information whatsoever for any of the media that were
calling about it.  Basically, I stayed on the site.  I
remember trying to -- I came back the next day and
virtually did the same thing, stayed at that site and
tried to communicate with my office.  At some point I
went back to see where my car was.  It's covered with
debris but it wasn't crushed or anything like that.  I
don't know.  I mean the days ran in.  I was there for,
F. GRIBBON
18
I think three days.  The next day I was there again.  I
would start working, trying to get hard line phones
there.  I talked to Chief Pfeifer about trying to set
up a tracking system for bodies, Fire Department
personnel.  That was sort of the original thing that we
had set up just so when we had confirmed deceased, that
they were coming through him.  He had an office set up
on like the third floor in 3 World Financial Center.  A
lot of it - unfortunately, the days ran in together.
          I remember that night talking to Chief
Fellini, who kind of had control of the site I think
that first night.  I got involved in a couple of
logistic things.  People were coming in.  They wanted
to deliver food.  I'm telling them go see the Red
Cross.  Another guy has got a truck with -- this is
probably day two now.
          You are more concerned with day one -- okay,
so the -- that that's probably it for day one.  But
like I said, once the two of them had come down, I'm at
that location.  I remained for the most part at that
location.  I remember talking to some of the
restaurants.  I made contact at some point with the guy
from Ratner's Hotel there and talked to him about
logistics and phones.  There were no phones.  It was a
F. GRIBBON
19
big problem.  I spent a lot of time trying to set up
some kind of communication at the site to no avail.
          But Dixon had the people to the north.  I
sort of stayed at the scene to sort of keep the press
at bay, because we were concerned about pulling our
people out and having them capture it and all that.  I
didn't want them to get that, to let them get something
like that.
     Q.   I know you said you didn't have a handy
talky, but do you remember hearing any kind of radio
transmissions or handy talky transmissions while you
were there?
     A.   Yes, I remember the Ladder 6 stuff.  I
remember, as a matter of fact, I was with - I seen - I
remember seeing Danny May from 43 Truck, I think.  And
there was a group of men.  There was discussion among
Chief Visconti and Ingram and other Chiefs on the job
who were west of Vesey there and they were discussing
people trapped and -- it was Ladder 6.  Someone wanted
to try to get a crew over there to help and I remember
them saying that they got them, they got them, Ladder
6.
          And I remember a whole bunch of guys heading
from where we were around the Winter Garden to that
F. GRIBBON
20
site between the two bridges.  You know, through the
Winter Garden, right.  Again, I went up Dey Street to
approach the site from the west there.
          About 20, I believe there were 20
firefighters who went on that mission to try to help
with Ladder 6.  But I remember them coming back and
being told they got them a short time later.  So I
think they dispatched a whole bunch of guys but the
rescue attempt, I guess it had already been in -- the
operation was kind of going on at that time.  They sent
all these extra guys, but I believe they were getting
them out, as they were sort of assigned to go help out.
     Q.   Anything else?
     A.   Other than that, I didn't really have any
conversations with too many people at the command
post.  You know, we were all standing there watching.
We saw about 20 people jump.  It was horrific.  The
sound of them hitting was like a gun being fired or
something.  Their bodies exploding or whatever.  It was
just really horrific.  I guess we weren't, a lot of
guys were assembling there.  Thank god there weren't
more guys being sent there.  We would have lost more
guys, you know.
          So I really don't have -- one thing I left
F. GRIBBON
21
out, for the record I guess.  The one thing, I talked
to Ray Goldbach and Tom Fitzpatrick when I got there
and I looked up at them and I said do we have a
collapse potential here.  I remember them saying no,
they are made to withstand a hit from planes.  But I
guess none of us really thought.  I don't know what
that originated from.
     Q.   I don't think they figured on jet fuel.
     A.   Terrorism, yeah.  A plane hit the tower,
which is, I guess what everybody thought when they
heard a plane hit the tower.  It was not what they had
in mind when they talk about a plane.  It was built to
withstand being hit by a plane, not by a plane being
driven into the towers loaded with jet fuel.  But that
was the one conversation I had with anybody really at
the command post.  It occurred to me.  I thought at
least we had chance of a partial collapse, after some
amount of burning time you know.
     Q.   You mean the top falling off?
     A.   Something like that.  Actually my car, I
parked it.  I pulled up on one of these streets down
here, maybe like, in other words, I'm going to guess it
was somewhere near West Street.  It was like the first
left turn I could make.  I don't think it said Rector
F. GRIBBON
22
Place here.  There are other streets south of here.
That's where I parked my car.  I remember when I pulled
it over, thinking to myself, shit, these things are big
buildings, you know.  I parked it close to West Street,
then I pulled it over up the block.  Something that
struck me.  Was I thinking about the building coming
down?  I certainly knew it would be bad and I thought
we would have at least debris and stuff like that
coming off of it, if not some partial collapse or
something like that.  So I pulled the car all the way
up the block, and I was right.  I mean just if the
vehicles were closer to West Street, the damage.  Mine
was covered with about 3, 4 inches of that powdery,
pulverized concrete, whatever it was, but it was not
destroyed.  Other vehicles up the block were damaged by
the debris that fell that far.  You know.
     Q.   Did you see any, as you were walking, did you
see any plane parts or anything as you were walking up
West Street or anything?
     A.   No, I saw them on the video, that it appeared
there was some, but you don't really know where they
were located on that video.
     Q.   What the --
     A.   The plane parts and such.  Looked like there
F. GRIBBON
23
might be some plane parts in there, but I don't know
where that was.  I will get you a copy of that.  As a
matter of fact, my video unit, I will get you
everything we have.  Because they have been asking for
all the footage from all the stations and stuff like
that, you know, whatever we can get.  We will give it
to you.  I guess that's it.  Unless you have anything
else.  It was not a dramatic kind of thing.  I was
lucky I was able to -- I wasn't that close.  I was able
to get away without -- unlike all the guys that had no
shot.  That's my guilt complex.
     Q.   That's what a lot of people have.
     A.   Yes, because I could run and guys couldn't.
If you were in there -- all right?
          MR. CAMPBELL:  Time is now 12 o'clock.  The
     interview is over.  Thank you very much.
          MR. GRIBBON:  Thank you guys.
File No. 9110168
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
           ROSARIO TERRANOVA
   Interview Date:  October 26, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          MR. TAMBASCO:  We are at Battalion 4 in the
     lounge, and the subject of the interview is
     Lieutenant Rosario Terranova, assigned to EMS
     Battalion 4.
          The time is now 1330 hours.
BY MR. TAMBASCO:
     Q.   If you would be good enough to just tell us
what happened.
     A.   Okay.  Well, on the day of the events, I was
actually still assigned to the Chief of Department's
office, so my response to the incident actually was
from headquarters, and I had been at work already.  We
were sitting -- I was sitting in my cubicle, and I
heard Chief Ganci make a statement.  You know, it was
kind of like a screaming thing from his office.  Said,
"Come on, Danny.  We gotta go right away.  There's a
plane that hit the Trade Center," and that, of course,
was referring to Chief Nigro.
          So at first, to be honest with you, in the
office it was kind of -- people thought maybe he was
full of shit, you know, he was kidding around, because
he's like -- he was a jokster kind of guy, you know,
but you could tell right away from the way he was
moving around and people were starting to scurry that
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
3
something was happening.
          So I ran to the window.  From headquarters
you actually can see lower Manhattan, and, sure enough,
you could see in the one tower there was this huge, you
know, black void and smoke coming up, so we realized
there was a serious issue, but, you know, at the time
to be honest with you, nobody thought what was going
on.  We thought it was just some kind of fluke accident
and a plane had hit.  People started scurrying for
stuff, but I ran right away to get Chief Gombo, because
even though I was assigned to the chief of the
department's office, something like this I wanted to
get him involved right away, so I informed him of what
was going on, and I suggested that we go together to
the incident.
          So we gathered up our stuff, and everybody
was rushing down the elevator banks.  We got into our
cars in the garage.  Then we kind of went over in this,
like, convoy, maybe four or five of us that followed.
We were following Steve Mosiello, who was Chief Ganci's
executive assistant, and Chief Ganci was in the car
with him, Chief Nigro, Commissioner Feehan was in line
with Commissioner Fitzpatrick, a couple of the other
chiefs were there from upstairs.  We all proceeded over
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
4
the Brooklyn Bridge.  On the way over, we could see a
lot of debris and stuff falling from the buildings.
When we got down into lower Manhattan, we swung around
City Hall Park, around Park Row, and then headed across
to Church Street.  From there we broke off a little
bit.
          Most of the convoy began to head down Vesey
Street.  Chief Gombo and I swung south on Church
Street, and we wound up parking on Fulton Street,
heading east about a hundred feet east of Church
Street.  The reason we chose to stop there is because
there was a significant ambulance presence there.
          We noted several voluntary hospitals there,
and we saw some treatment going on the sidewalk.  We
decided that we would initially stop there and see what
we could assess.  We really didn't have any
information.  It was very early on in the incident.
          We came to find out afterwards, in looking at
the unit histories, that we actually were on scene
within six minutes of the initial call to 911.  There
was no reporting place or command post that had been
established yet, so we opted to stop there and at least
get some kind of idea of what we were looking at.
After we parked the car, we initially ran into a crew
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
5
from New York Downtown Hospital.  I don't know who they
were, but they were beginning to treat patients on the
sidewalk.
          There was a couple of patients who were
walking wounded, a few patients that couldn't
ambulate.  I remember clearly the sea of people coming
out of this lobby, you know, and all we could do was
encourage them to just to keep going, keep moving away
from the incident site.  You know, people were asking
us, "What's happening?  What's going on?"  We really
just didn't have any time.  Just respectfully as we
could, told them keep moving, keep moving north, just
get away from the incident site.
          We remember saying over the radio make sure
everybody was their helmets on, this is a hard hat op,
because we were starting to get hit with stuff.  We
didn't know what it was.  It was mostly just soot and
paper, but, you know, it wasn't really clear what was
happening.  About this time we heard like a little bit
of an explosion.  I guess it was secondary to the crash
that had occurred, and we immediately told everybody
let's retreat.  We tried to take patients with us, but
those who couldn't ambulate, we had no choice but to
leave them there.  We actually retreated across the
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
6
street back by the cemetery, which is right on the
corner of Church and Fulton.  It's part of St. Paul's
Church there.  We had some debris falling from the
building, some larger objects and some objects with
mass.  Those patients that were unable to ambulate,
they, unfortunately, became further victimized by the
event.  After that initially stopped, we made the
decision to bring that treatment area back over to this
side of the street, the east side of the street, and to
have people as best they can use real extreme caution.
          I remember running into two people from
headquarters there, which was Lieutenant Medjuck and
Captain Olszewski, who are both assigned to the EMS
command, and Chief Gombo gave them direction to assume
the responsibilities for that area, and he was going to
assume command of the EMS operation.  At my suggestion
to him, we began to head west of the incident down
Vesey Street.
          We had gotten information that the fire
command post was being established in the lobby of the
No. 1 tower, so I expressed to him, and I thought
because of the magnitude of the incident that's where
he needed to be.  That's where all the fire super
people would be, the super chiefs would be, so that
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
7
would be the best position.
          Anyway, we left Captain Olszewski at that
location.  We left our vehicle where we had initially
parked it, and we began on foot to move forward, and we
started accepting radio transmissions as command for
the event.
          We had established a staging area on the west
side of West Street at Vesey Street being the cross.
We instructed additional ambulances responding in that
they should take that location as their staging
location.  We also ran into Captain Stone from
Battalion 8 at that location, and Captain Stone was
going to begin to coordinate those efforts.  He wasn't
necessarily assigned the role of staging, but it was
his job to assume that an officer was placed in charge
of that, and that began to come to fruition.
          Chief Gombo and I began to proceed into the
lobby of No. 1 tower, which is where fire had
established a command position by the side command
center.  It was clear on the west side of the building
that the damage, physical damage, to the building
wasn't as extensive as it was on the east, but still we
had a lot of debris, visible flames.  We -- our path
was, you know, was obstructed by some bodies that were
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
8
on the scene.  I remember saying to Chief Gombo how
horrific a scene this really was.  You know, there was
a couple of spots where we recognized by clothing that
there were body parts, but we couldn't even recognize
male or female.  You know, it was just horrific.
          So anyway, we decided to proceed into the
lobby, which is where they had established the command
post, and it was a very hazardous location to begin
with.  I mean, there was a lot of glass on the floor.
A lot of the window panes from the lobby had been
already broken.  I can't tell you if they were broken
intentionally by fire personnel for venting or if they
were broken as a result of the incident, but we began
to establish command there.
          We saw many people there.  We saw Father
Judge there.  We saw Commissioner Feehan there.  We saw
Chief Turi there.  We saw -- who else?  I'm trying to
think who else was there.  Anyway, if I come back to
the names, I'll try to remember, but there was a
significant number of people there.  It was clear that
that's where the initial command post was being
established.  We began to -- we began to speak and
discuss about the long term, how we're going to attack
this operation.  I could see the mezzanine level -- I
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
9
don't know if you are familiar with where that lobby
was, but there was a mezzanine level above you, and
then there was like a vestibule in there that you could
go up a set of escalators to the plaza or into 6 World
Trade Center.  We could see at the mezzanine level
there was a significant number of people being
evacuated out into the plaza area from the mezzanine.
I commented to Chief Gombo I thought it was so amazing
how people were really moving, you know, very
organized, very coordinated effort.
          We remained at that location for a little
while.  Chief Basile came in, and he was there.  They
began to discuss strategies and what was going to
occur.  A couple of times really we were frightened by
what we thought were additional explosions.  We kept
hearing these large boom, boom, and actually what it
turned out to be -- what it said in the Times, it
actually was people jumping and hitting on the glass
awning that was outside the lobby there.  We then
decided that -- Chief Ganci had left, and he was
actually establishing a fire command post across the
street on West Street, south of Vesey Street.  I would
say the best landmark would be in front of the Winter
Garden or, actually if you look at the Winter Garden
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
10
dome, it would just be almost just north of that spot.
There was -- the best way to explain it is there was a
driveway to a loading dock to that building, and it was
established there at that location.
     Q.   Which I guess probably was the American
Express Building.
     A.   That's what it is, right.  There was a
loading dock off of West Street for 3 World Financial
Center, which is the American Express Building, and
that is just north of the Winter Garden, and that's
exactly where it was.  This pedestrian bridge that
existed on the map, if you look at it as reference,
just north of that is where this driveway was.  We
could -- so that's where we decided to proceed, we
would move to that location, and we did so.
          We did so, I would say, probably about ten
minutes after Chief Ganci had left to go there, and
still at this point the second building, the second
building had yet to be affected, and there was some
question about this.  There was a video that I was
privy to see, which is being kept confidential in
nature, held by the chief of safety, and it was taken
by an amateur photographer who was doing some training
with the first battalion.  I don't know if you are
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
11
aware of the tape, but anyway it's really helped me --
seeing that helped me get this frame of reference.  I'm
very sure of my times on this, you know.
          So anyway, Chief Gombo and I decided to
proceed out of the building.  We left Chief Basile at
the building to coordinate resources there.  Now, we
moved out of the building back across West Street.  We
kept on staging again to see what was occurring.  We
had a few people that were standing south of Vesey
Street.  We corrected that situation, moved everybody
north again on Vesey Street where we wanted to stage,
and, you know, our mentality about staging is always --
especially now, since we're working with the Fire
Department, to get further away, because we know that
they're coming with additional resources, and we don't
want to lose any assets behind them.
          So again we moved them, and then we proceeded
to the command post.  Now, at the command post, I
remember seeing Chief Ganci there, Steve Mosiello,
Chief Burns.  I remember speaking with Commissioner
Feehan.  Commissioner Fitzpatrick was there, and it's
funny, because Commission Feehan asked me, you know,
what about the patient count, how many patients we
got?  I said to him, "Listen, Commissioner, with all
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
12
due respect, it's a lot."  You know, and we kind of
giggled.  He said, "I know, I know, but I have to ask
the question."  It's kind of sad to me because it was
almost in a jovial way.  I mean, that was his
personality.  Anyway, we began to establish our
situation now, and we heard a little -- all of a sudden
we hear a huge explosion, you know, and in looking up,
you could see the second tower being hit by this second
plane, you know, and it was at that -- it was at that
very moment that everybody there realized that we
were -- you know, that this was clearly a planned act
that this is --
     Q.   No accident?
     A.   This was no accident, you know, and it was a
terrible feeling to say, oh, my God, you know, this is
something that's really bad that's happening.  You
know, just on a personal note you started to think, I
wish I could call somebody or do something, but there
was no time for that kind of stuff.  We had to put that
away.
          So we initially began discussing the need for
resources, retreat of resources, where we could move
people to, if we had to.  What are going to be some of
our evacuation plans?  We started to discuss what
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
13
further acts we could anticipate.  Is there something
else that's going on in other places of the city?
Should we anticipate additional problems down here in
the financial center?
          It seems like it happened very fast.  I mean,
the time went actually longer than that, when you're
involved in it, I'm sure you understand that, you know,
it seems like these things are happening, and there's
no real time frame.
          While we were discussing this, I remember
hearing Chief Ganci say, "Oh, shit," you know, so we
all looked up, and you could hear this rumble coming.
We looked up at the south tower, which is the No. 2
tower, and all of a sudden we began to see like a
pancake.  I mean, it's as simple as that.  If you could
imagine you had two cards in your hand, and you just
clapped your hands, and they just closed on each
other.  That's what it looked like, like a toy, and we
began to see the pancake, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,
boom, boom, boom, one floor after another, as quick as
you can imagine it.
          At the time I was standing looking at the
building in front of the fire command board.  To my
left was Chief Gombo and to my right was -- to my right
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
14
front was Chief Ganci with his aide, Steve, and right
directly to my left was Roger Moore, Lieutenant Roger
Moore.  Directly behind him to my right was
Commissioner Feehan, so I remember Chief Ganci saying,
"Go, go, go, go."
          Everybody decided which way they were going
to go.  Some people went to the left.  Some people went
to the right.  I decided -- I looked behind me, and I
saw a few people were heading into this loading dock.
The loading dock bay was actually open.  I thought to
myself, I don't think I could -- I don't think I can
out run this, you know, and maybe I got a better chance
getting into safety, so I said to Gombo, "Come on let's
go."
          I went about three steps, maybe three or four
steps running, and I turned to see and he
wasn't -- Gombo wasn't there.  He was still kind of
standing, looking at the building, so I ran back to
him.  I kind of grabbed him by the neck like a -- you
know, the best way I can describe it is like a kitty
cat.  I grabbed him by the scruff of the neck, and I
pulled him with me into this building.
          When we got inside the bay, we could hear it
getting louder.  You know, it's getting loud, and it
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
15
was getting dark, so I had to him -- you know, I said
to myself, maybe we should -- you know, it's an odd
thing, because even though you certainly were running
for your safety, there is an odd curiosity, and you
want to see it.  You want to see what's happening, so
everybody was run to go what they thought was safe, but
still not getting as far away from the door as they
probably should have.  I said to myself, you know what,
this is not how I want to check out, so I said let's
go , and I grabbed Gombo.  I was going to run down
further into the bay, and then -- I don't know.  It's
very strange, but in the loading dock, right against
the wall very close to the door was a white van, and it
was just parked there, and I said, "All right.  We are
going to grab refuge behind this van."
          We went to the back of the van, and we got
down on the ground, and we heard this huge, thunderous,
loud sound, and then it was completely dark and
completely silent.  It was like the sound of death.  It
was so strange, because there was all this commotion,
and people screaming, run, run, run, go, go, go, and
then I guess at the point -- at that point the debris
hit the bay, and it was just complete silence, an eerie
silence.  I'd be amazed that people who were in that
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
16
garage don't describe it the same exact way, that eerie
silence.  I took a second and realized -- I mean it was
dark.  We had a few lights down at the end of the
garage, the end of the loading bay, but it was very
dark.
          I took a second to realize, okay, I'm not
trapped.  I can move everything.  I had Gombo.  I
wouldn't let him go.  I could feel his shirt.  Then I
went to take a breath, and all I got was dirt.  It was
at that point I said to myself, did you make a bad
decision not running?  Because now, you know, maybe you
didn't get buried in this crap, but are you going to be
able to breathe?  Are you going to suffocate here?
          But anyway, the long and the short of it is
we took a second, and within a minute or so the dust
started to settle a little bit.  You could breathe
through your clothes.  People began to scream.  I
remember Jerry saying, "Ross," and I said, "Jerry."  We
had each other.  He had a little flashlight.  He had
the flash on, and we were trying to see did we see
anybody else.  Then I thought to myself -- I thought of
the thing about the '93 incident when they had this
Ryder truck full of explosive, and now I realized how
strange it was that this white van was parked in this
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
17
loading dock.  I started to think to myself, God, did
we step into the wrong place here?  So I said to Gombo,
"Look, we gotta get out of here, because we don't
know --" I didn't know the integrity of the building we
were in, what fell on us, how much we're under, so we
tried to go back and look, but it was too dusty.  I
couldn't see anything.
          There was a couple of firefighters in the
building, so we proceeded to the back.  Everybody
proceeded first to the back of the garage.  We saw
Terry Wynter there, who was from OEM.  He was in the
garage with us.  I saw a couple of cops and, you know,
Jerry started asking me "Where's Feehan?  Where is
Ganci?"  We didn't see them, so we believed, him and I
believed, that they were buried as a result of that.
Then he said, "Where's Roger?"  He thought Roger was
behind us, and we couldn't find Roger either.  So we
just assumed that these guys had been buried.
          Now, it was strange, because -- I'll get
right back to where I am, but we didn't realize -- we
didn't find out until Friday of that week that that's
not where Ganci and Feehan perished.  That was mostly
because we spent so much time working at the scene the
next three days, we didn't have any time to talk to
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
18
anybody else and find out what really occurred.
Anyway, they were able to evacuate by running.  Then we
also found out that -- we also found out from Roger
that, in fact, he had injured his leg, actually both
his legs, but he actually was in that garage.  He
actually made it in that garage.  We felt -- or I can
speak for myself -- Chief Gombo may say otherwise --
but I felt profoundly upset because, you know, it was
afterwards that I found this out.
          I thought, man, I abandoned him, you know.  I
should have gone back to him and looked for him, but,
like we said, we didn't have SCBAs.  It was very --
breathing was very poor in there, and we asked some
firefighters to go back and see if anybody had survived
that had been buried or trapped.  It turned out that
those firefighters are the guys who helped carry him
out of that garage.
Q. Right.
     A.   Yes, so Roger, that's correct, so in a sense,
I guess -- while I may feel personally bad for not
doing it myself, I guess in a sense we sent somebody to
help him, so there is some resolve there.
          I'm sorry.  I know I'm a little long winded,
but I hope it will help you.
           ROSARIO TERRANOVA
Q. Not at all.
19
     A.   We -- so we were in this little garage
office, which I guess was intended for the attendant.
There was a telephone there we were trying to get out
on.  We couldn't get an outside line.  As a matter of
fact, somebody called in looking for somebody, and
Chief Gombo said to them, "Look, you know, he's not
here, but if you can call somebody, tell them that
there are people in this place, and we don't know if we
have a way out."
          Anyway, one of the firefighters that was in
there decided that they would take the stairway to see
if there was an access point above us.  While he did
that, we waited.  We sealed the doors and put some
towels down to try to lessen the smoke situation and
the dust situation in the room we were in.
          I would say maybe about five, ten minutes
went by, and the firefighter came back to us and said,
"Look, I found an access."  We have to take a stairway
about maybe two floors up, and then we needed to walk
towards the back of the building, and then there was a
door that emptied into the courtyard of the back of the
building, 3 Financial on the west side of the building
or directly against -- directly north of Battery Park
                ROSARIO TERRANOVA
by the water line.
     Q.   Right.
20
     A.   We were able to evacuate the building in that
fashion.  We got out of the building.  There was debris
and dust everywhere.  If you need an explanation, the
best way to try to describe it is take a vacuum bag
that you should have changed two weeks ago.
Q. Right.
     A.   Then open it and just throw it up in the
air.  That's what it looked like, the dust and shit
flying everywhere.  So we said okay -- now that we're
out, let's try to get on the radio and make some
communication.  We were able to get on the radio, let
them know that we were all right, and try to get a
status for the operation.
          It was difficult to -- it was a difficult
situation to try to get back in charge of, because we
were out of commission for probably about 30 minutes.
Q. Right.
     A.   In our absence, things had already been going
in place, so it seemed senseless to take that role back
over.  What we opted to do is we opted to try to move
back towards the incident site and see who we could get
ahold of.
           ROSARIO TERRANOVA
Q. Right.
21
     A.   So we began to -- let me find my bearings
here.  We began to move -- yes, we began here on North
End Avenue.
Q. Right.
     A.   We began to head up North End Avenue and then
to Vesey.
     Q.   And then east across Vesey?
     A.   Then we tried to go east across Vesey.  Now,
what wound up happening was we encountered a lot of
ambulance crews that were operating between 3 and 4
Financial Center, on Vesey Street, which is between
West and North End Avenue.
          On North End Avenue, north of Vesey Street,
there's a hotel there.  What we started to do is we
established a treatment area in the lobby of this
hotel.  I'm sorry.  The name escapes me, but we began
to establish a treatment area in the lobby of this
hotel off of North End Avenue.  Like I said, there were
crews operating here on Vesey Street, and there was
some crews operating south of Vesey on North End
Avenue, as well.
          We actually met up with Chief Basile there.
We met up with Chief Pascal there.  Chief Gombo
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
22
actually called a meeting with the chief officers there
because we were unable to make any contact with Chief
McCracken.  We were -- we knew he was there, but we
were unable to contact him.  We weren't sure if he had
perished in the incident.  There was, of course, rumors
flying all over the place, this one is dead, that one
is dead, so we did our best to figure things out.
          Chief Goldfarb was there with us.  Chief
Villani was there.  What we decided to do is we decided
that we would continue to maintain this treatment
area.  I suggested to Chief Gombo that there's going to
have to be a spot where the agencies are going to start
to get together, and the only logical place we could
think of, given the proximity at the time of OEM to the
incident, we didn't think that they would be at their
offices in 7 World Trade Center.  We decided that we
needed to make our way to One Police Plaza, which is
all the way on the east side of Manhattan.  We thought
that -- Chief Gombo and I said we're going to proceed
over to that location.  That was our initial plan, and
right around this time again we had some commotion.  We
stopped our meeting, and we went out again where we
were treating patients, and we were out on the street
when we heard the rumble of the second tower
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
23
collapsing.  I remember specifically myself going up
Vesey Street again towards --
     Q.   Eastbound?
     A.   Yes, heading eastbound up Vesey Street to try
to wave people down.  Come on, come on, let's go, let's
go.  There was one guy, he didn't want to leave his
patient.  I said, "Come on, you have to leave her.  You
gotta evacuate that location."
          I remember seeing the rubble, seeing the
rubble fall and actually start to chase down the
street, and, you know, it's strange because you
wouldn't expect -- you wouldn't expect debris to do
that, but it literally traveled, like, you would see
these movies with like a tidal wave that flows through
the streets and hits down any path it can.  It
literally traveled that way.  I began to retreat
myself, begging people to come with me back onto North
End Avenue.  Then I took a position against the
building on North End Avenue just north of Vesey
Street.
     Q.   With the building between you and the --
     A.   Right, like, I put myself up against the
building.  I was -- I stayed as close to the edge as I
possibly could, because I wanted to try to be able to
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
24
grab people or just pull them off to the side, because
I was afraid people would keep running straight and put
themselves still in the middle of the road.
          There was some people on the south of Vesey
Street that refused to come over.  They were fine where
they were.  Then, just like I described, there is this
huge puff of dust to my left through Vesey Street, and
then to my right through Murray Street.  The percussion
of it was so much it actually pulled me off the
building, you know, so I can't -- there were a couple
of people who I remember seeing on Vesey Street who I
couldn't find again.
Q. Right.
     A.   Oh, I want to mention this.  I forgot to
mention this.  Going back to the command post.
     Q.   Right, the original command post?
     A.   Original command post in front -- on West
Street.  One of the people who I had lost sight of was
Sam Harris.  He's an EMT.  He's Chief Digg's aide.  He
happened to have been there with Captain Pincus that
day.  He was working with us to start some
communication, and he broke off from us to head up into
the Winter Garden building to try to make some
communications.  It was at that point when that
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
25
building collapsed.
          Now, I bring it up only because I met up
again with Sam Harris and accounted for him back at the
hotel at North End Avenue.
     Q.   Right.
     A.   So we -- he at least was accounted for.
          One of the people we couldn't account for at
that time was Chief Basile's aide.  His name escapes
me, but I know we were looking for him.  We couldn't
account for him.  He was later accounted for, thank
goodness.
          Anyway, after the second building collapsed,
here we were again consumed with this debris shield,
this dust shield, you know.  There was some people who
had taken refuge underneath ambulances.  But anyway, we
started to recoup things a little bit, and I said,
okay, now we really have to think about what we're
doing.  So we were back in the lobby, and actually
stepped away from the windows.  Everybody started to
get very paranoid of what was going to happen next.  We
were establishing our plans for the operation, who was
going to be responsible for what sectors, and all of a
sudden I noted -- I saw a lot of cops running north
past the building.  Even some firefighters, and I was
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
26
too curious, saying, "What are these guys running
from?"  So I went outside I said, "What's the story?"
They told us that as a result of the collapse, the
building that we were in had had a gas leak breach on
the opposite side of the building.  So I went back in,
and I said to Chief Gombo, "Look, I think we need to --
have to just abandon our operation here and move
everybody north as far north as we can and get a handle
on this," because we need to make sure all our people
are safe.  Of course he was very frustrated at the
time, too, and he said to me, "How far north do you
think we should go?"  I remember specifically telling
him I think we should walk north until you don't see
any stuff any more.  Just keep going north.
          So anyway we decided -- we started proceeding
north on North End Avenue with a convoy of personnel.
It was about Murray Street that we actually encountered
Chief Callan, fire Chief Callan.  He was --- I don't
mean any disrespect to him, but he was completely dazed
and out of it.  He was just in total shock from the
event, just walking in circles, you know.  I grabbed
him, I said, "Chief Callan, are you all right?  Are you
okay."  He just said to me, "Hi, how you doing?"  I
said "Chief, come on.  Why don't you walk with us.  We
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
27
have to start walking forward.  Why don't you get all
your people to come with us.  We have to move north."
          That kind of snapped him a little bit out of
it, and he started to give the order to his people,
let's move north, let's move north, so we did.  We
moved, I would say, a couple of blocks.  I can't tell
you exactly where we stopped.  Probably somewhere
around Warren Street.  We began to -- there was a
police officer from the Police Department chief of
department's office, who actually had a gator out.
They must have had them at headquarters and used them
to transport people over.  We explained to them what we
were doing, and he said, "Come on, chief, I'll take you
over," so we went, Chief Gombo and I, Chief Goldfarb
and his aide.  We went to One Police Plaza.
          When we got there, we went upstairs to the
command center.  The command center had already been
completely activated.  I mean, there was a flurry of
activity going on, and it was there for the first time
that we began to see some images on the television of
what had occurred.  I remember saying to Chief Gombo
what a good decision it was to come there, because it
was -- we now had the landline capability.  We were
able to call headquarters.  We were able to establish
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
28
some interagency communications.  We still didn't have
a fire rep with us, but anyway we decided this would be
a good spot.  We made contact with headquarters.  We
made contact with fire operations to say that this is
where we are, and we think it would be an excellent
idea to have a fire rep there.
          The choice to bring Chief Goldfarb with us
was a superb choice, because he had a vast knowledge of
mutual aid and interagency communications.  He was able
to start establishing contact with FEMA and with state
EMS and begin to put plans in place immediately for
mutual aid.
          He also had a very intricate knowledge of the
Oklahoma City bombing.  So he was very influential on
telling us this is what we should anticipate in 24
hours.  This is what we can anticipate in 48 hours.  I
tell you, I got to give him a lot of credit.  He was a
hundred percent on the money, because, sure enough, he
was right.  I mean, the amount of supplies that came
in.  Just for example, as an insight, one of the first
things he said to us that we had to consider doing is
find warehouse space.
          At least, we both looked at him, like, how
could you think about that now, and he said, "Trust
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
29
me.  You are going to want to think about that because
in two days you are not going to be able to move." He
was a hundred percent correct.  I mean, this battalion
here, Battalion 4, simply by nature of its proximity
and the logistics of the station became an absolute
warehouse.  It wasn't till last week that we just got
rid of almost 200 cases of food and clothing that we
sent to shelters because we had no need for it.  We
were completely overwhelmed by generosity.
          So anyway, we spent a large portion of the
rest of the day, I would say realistically we were
there.  We got there around one o'clock, and we spent
the day there until about ten o'clock.  About ten
o'clock we decided that we would --we wanted to head
back over and see what was happening.  Captain
Connelly, who was on duty, he just came on duty.  He
was sent to the trade center, to the command post at
One Police Plaza to take over for EMS liaison.  We
decided we would rotate.  We built a schedule for
continuous manpower there for staffing.  Chief Gombo
and I, along with Chief Goldfarb and his aide, decided
to head over.  We decided we'd walk over on foot, and
we were able to do that.
          First thing we did was we wanted to go and
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
30
see what kind of condition, if at all, Chief Gombo's
car was in.  Because that was our mode of
transportation.  As it turned out, amazingly, because
of the way the building fell, his car was not hit by
debris, although the driver's window had been broken.
Of course, the car was filthy and dusty inside, but
other than the driver's window, we started the car, and
it was fine.  Interestingly enough, there were a lot of
other cars with the windows broken like that.  We
thought it odd that just one window would have been
broken, and we surmised later on from speaking to
people that actually it was not broken as a result of
the incidents.  It was broken by people after the
buildings fell to try to get in and get some fresh air,
which I suppose it's a small price to pay for a
window.
          Anyway, once we realized the car was all
right, we left it there.  We were able to get it out.
We had to come over some hose lines and stuff, but
there was a path to get through.  It was filthy in the
streets.  There was inches and inches of dust and
muck.  By the time we had gotten there, of course both
the buildings had fallen.  This one building -- I'm
trying to describe exactly which one it was.  I guess
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
31
it was 5 World Trade Center had kind of been gutted out
just like a picture out of a movie.  You wouldn't even
believe it.
          So we started to proceed north on Church
because, of course, you know, the command center -- by
the time we were done with this, the EMS command post
had been established at Chambers Street and West
Street.  That's actually across from Stuyvesant High
School.  Ironically, that's where we remained for
several weeks after the incident, as far as the command
post was concerned.  We began to walk up Church Street
in an attempt to make our way over to West Street.  We
were going to go down Vesey Street, but it was
completely blocked by debris.
          Then we decided we'd stay north of Chambers
Street.  We ran into a couple of different people we
knew.  I ran into this guy, we call him Yack.  His name
is Jimmy Yakamovich.  He's a fire captain.  He was a
good friend of Chief Ganci's.  Everybody knows Yack.
Most people know him by now.
          Anyway, we ran into him, and he was there.
He was there in some somebody else's bunker gear and
helmet, and he was telling me -- we were talking
about -- he goes, you know -- you know, Ganci is dead
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
32
and Feehan is dead.  They can't find Burns or Barbara,
or -- you know, the list just went on and on, Fanning.
It was hard to believe.  I mean, Fanning, and Downey.
I mean, these guys who had all but made the department
in the last 40 years, all of them gone in one shot.  I
mean, people began to think about how we going to move
on from here, you know.  We were glad to hear at the
time we knew Nigro was okay, Cassano was okay.  I knew
Callan was okay, because I saw him myself, although
physically okay at least.  So we -- you know, we wished
him well.  We made our way over to Chambers and West
Street.  That's where we ran into -- Chief McCracken
actually was there.  He looked beat up, but he was in
good shape.  He was in complete command, as always, of
what was going on with EMS.  He had established a very
good plan about how we were going to do things.  He
began to say to Chief Gombo, at least for the next few
days we need to -- him and I need to -- him and I
meaning Chief Gombo and Chief McCracken need to be on
this rotating schedule.  One of them always needs to be
there.  So we decided that we would -- Chief Gombo and
I would head home.
          It took us about midnight by this decision.
We would head home and then come back in the morning to
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
33
relieve him.  Chief McCracken would stay own, and then
we would go on, like, this twelve-hour thing for the
next few days.  So we did.  We made our way back to the
car, and we headed home.  That particular night I
stayed by Chief Gombo.  We went home for a couple of
hours, and we headed back in on the 12th.
          So that's my recollection of September 11.  I
mean, I have some other stuff that we did subsequent to
that, but, I mean, it doesn't --
     Q.   No, that's pretty much -- other than anything
else you may just want to add.  I mean, you know,
feeling wise or anything like that, that you'd like to
have added into this, that's -- I can't ask for much
more detail than you have given me.
     A.   Well, I tried my best to lay it out, because,
I mean, it's helpful for me to talk about it.  I mean,
it was difficult -- it was a difficult week, you
know,.  I mean, a lot of stuff went on to establish
things there.  You know, in the subsequent days, we
worked with Jersey City Medical Center, who had lent us
a command post to use.
Q. Right.
     A.   Something that should be on the record,
should be that EMS needs to have a command post so we
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
34
can operate the long-term operation.  I mean, we used
to have the field com, however inappropriate that
vehicle might have been, but we still had it.  The
truth be known, fire communications has vehicles, but
they are fine for fire communications.  When we need to
set up something like this, we need to go outside and
say could you help us, because we don't have -- and
that's a kind of silly situation.  But that's a
personal feeling, not a professional one.  We took the
time to go to the ME's office and see their operation
there.  I have to tell you, it's horrific.
          They were doing -- I mean literally doing
autopsies right on the street underneath tents.  I give
a lot of credit to the guys who worked sectors in the
next coming days.  One of the hardest sectors to
establish was the morgue sector.  It was hard because
there were a lot of -- tensions were running high,
let's just put it that way.
          I mean, we had some run-ins -- when I say we,
I mean Chief Gombo and I.  We basically were married at
the hip for the remainder of the week, you know.  We
had some run-ins with Chief Butler and Chief Cruthers,
which were later ironed out.  Of course, they were just
nothing more than people being so profoundly saddened
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
35
by what had occurred.  It was important to us, and, of
course, it was important to fire suppression, as well.
We needed to establish a very clear, well-maintained
morgue sector.  So that one, of course, we could
account for all our lost, both PD, fire and EMS, but
mostly so that we could ensure that the remains of the
Fire Department personnel would be returned as quickly
as possible to their families.  That was something that
was difficult to do, but I'm proud the way that worked
out.
          And, you know, we went on.  I mean, things
have somewhat come down to normal at this point, or at
least started to establish a long-term basis, you
know.  We -- right after the event, we established
24-hour coverage of headquarters and a staffing person
at OEM a staffing person at police headquarters, and,
you know, staffing people at the command center.  For
the first week or so everybody -- you couldn't pull
people away if you tried.  Everybody wanted to be
there.  They couldn't do enough, but it had to come to
a point where you had a decision to make that this is
going to be a long-term operation.  This stuff is not
going to go away tomorrow.  The debris is just not
going to clear.  We are going to have to be into this
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
36
for six months or a year and still you need to
establish a long-term plan because you can't run out of
people in six weeks, and that's where we were headed.
          So to our credit -- I mean, I think that
things are proceeding okay now.  I mean, I think it's
good that people are volunteering to do overtime down
there, and that the 911 system is back in place the way
it was, although, in my opinion, of course, I don't
know how much -- how long you could ask people to do
overtime in that kind of scenario.  I think it's a very
difficult thing to do.
          I mean, I have my ideas about how we could do
it also, but we will leave it at that.  I'm glad to --
in a sense, I'm glad to have survived it and be able to
contribute to this collection of information.  I think
it's important to document historically what's happened
in the department.
          You know, from my perspective, I've
encouraged everybody I know to speak to you about this,
to speak to investigators about this.  You know,
there's an unfortunate stigmatism that comes with your
office and your organization and, you know, what are
they looking for?  Are they looking to fire people
because they put in for  comp. packages and they
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
37
weren't there.
          I mean, of course, you know, to be honest
with you, if people are performing inappropriately,
they need to be discussed with it, but I -- so they
don't expect that that's the meat and potatoes of this
investigation.  I don't -- I didn't approach it that
way.  I hope my information has been informative to
you.
     Q.   It certainly has been, and just keep in mind
that -- actually think about it 30 or 50 years from now
when somebody wants to look back and this and get more
of the personal stories.
     A.   You know, I tell you why I think it's a good
idea, I'm offering these things up, because maybe it
will come up for further discussion.
          One of the things we used to at EMS prior to
the merger, we used to do post incident summary
reports.  This was something that Chief Cross was a
stickler for when he was the chief of operations for
EMS.  Any time we had a big incident -- I mean a big --
certainly not relative to this, a big, you know, a
plane crash, a building clamps, along those lines, we
always take the time to do a post incident critique.
What we would do is we would print the CAD and gather
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
38
all the ACRs and create a time line and a table of
organization and speak to those in charge and have
narratives written, and this information would be put
in chronological order and stored on paper so that we
can learn from the lessons we had.  I think back on the
World Trade Center event, which is an event that we did
not do a post-incident summary about, largely because
of the magnitude.
Q. Right.
     A.   But I think back on that event, working in
operations as I did, and working with the chief of
department's office as the correspondence liaison, I
received on many occasions inquiries from people who
wanted to learn from our department.  It was a standard
joke when anybody would call about the '93 bombing they
would be switched immediately to Chief Seretta, because
Chief Seretta was one of the command officers.  Then
when Chief Seretta retired, they switched this person
immediately to Chief Burns because Chief Burns was also
one of the ranking fire chiefs -- but unfortunately
there are no more rank and file chiefs that were in
'93.  All their information, and history and expertise
has been lost.  That's a real shame, so I hope that --
I hope that this will pave the way for other future
ROSARIO TERRANOVA
39
considerations for reports like that when we have these
types of -- it's important history, and you're doing an
important thing here.
          That's all I have.
     Q.   That's about it, Ross.  I thank for you the
info.  It certainly was quite detailed.
     A.   I hope it's been helpful to you.  Thanks a
lot, Michael.
          MR. TAMBASCO:  We conclude as 1415 hours on
October 26.
File No. 9110169
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
    DEPUTY COMMISSIONER LYNN TIERNEY
   Interview Date:  October 29, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
L. TIERNEY 2
          MR. RIGNOLA:  Assigned to citywide
     special investigations unit.  I'm here with
     my partner, Cliff Krug.  It's October 29,
     approximately 1345.  I'm here to interview
     Deputy Commissioner Tierney about the events
     that happened on September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Commissioner, would you like just to
tell me how you became aware of the fire and how
you got there and what you might have seen?
     A.   I saw the first plane go into the tower
on television.  I was at home, and I was getting
ready to come in to the World Trade Center.  I
had an 11:00 appointment on the 67th floor of the
World Trade Center, tower number one.
          So I saw the first plane go in on
television.  I called Ray Goldbach and said
there's a plane into the Trade Center.  Then I
said I'm going in there.
          So I got in my car, and I came -- I
live in Brooklyn in Park Slope.  So I started to
go down Ninth Street, and I was going to turn
right onto Fourth Avenue, because I figured it
would be better for me to go in over the Brooklyn
Bridge, because I would be trapped in traffic if
L. TIERNEY 3
I tried to go through the tunnel.  Then Rescue 2
came by me on Ninth Street.  So instead I tucked
in behind them.  I went straight down to the
Battery Tunnel in behind Rescue 2.
          We got about four-fifths of the way
through the tunnel and we were stopped in
traffic.  They had an emergency lane.  We went
against traffic in the north tube of the tunnel,
or it might be the west tube.  I don't know.
It's the side of the tunnel.
          We went against traffic in the lane.
We got about four-fifths of the way through the
tunnel.  Officers were in the tunnel for the
Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority trying to
pull traffic out.  At this time it was
probably -- I think it was about maybe 7 to 10
minutes after 9:00, because I had just seen the
plane go in and then we got stuck there.
          My AM radio worked in the car, so I was
listening to the AM radio.  We sat in traffic and
we didn't move and we didn't move.  Eventually
two members of Rescue 2 got off the back of their
rig and came to my car and stood at the side of
my car.
L. TIERNEY 4
          I can't identify them.  I may be able
to identify them at some point later if I see
close-up pictures of them.  I'd like to identify
them.  I'd like to know who they were.  But
everybody had full equipment on.  They had their
hoods on.  So it was a little hard to tell who
they were.  It wasn't somebody I was immediately
familiar with.
          So they were actually standing by my
car at the time that we heard the radio broadcast
that said that there was a second plane into
tower number two.  So I think that puts the time
at about 9:17.  I think that's approximately when
the second tower got hit.  I'm not sure.
          So at any rate, they just -- those two
guys got back on the rig, and the traffic inched
forward a little bit.  Then I looked in my
rearview mirror and I saw firefighters coming
through the tunnel.  It was the members of Squad
1.  Their rig was stuck in traffic.  I couldn't
see it, it was so far back.  It must have been at
least four or five vehicles behind me.
          One by one each member of Squad 1 came
by my car.  They're my local fire house.  They
L. TIERNEY 5
knocked on the car.  They signalled me.  They
said hello.  Lieutenant Mike Esposito and Dave
Fontana went by.  I recognized him.
          What they did was approach through the
tunnel.  They came on either side of my car.
They were wearing full Scott packs.  They were
fully equipped.  They had their tools with them,
as I recall.  They rolled up onto the walkway.
          Underneath there's a railing, and then
there's a space underneath the bottom part of the
railing.  They had to sort of roll up on that to
get up on the walkway because they had their
tanks on and they couldn't just crawl.  That's
how I know they had their tanks.  Members of
their company have asked me if they had their
equipment and I know they did because I saw it.
          So then Mike Esposito, the Lieutenant,
stopped at my car and said hello to me.  I wished
him good luck.  He told me that he wanted me to
be careful and take care of myself and to make
sure I wore my helmet when I got in there.  I
said I would.
          Then he walked forward.  He walked
beyond the rescue rig, probably, I'd say, maybe
L. TIERNEY 6
three or four cars.  At that point the traffic
broke and we had a clear shot to get out of the
tunnel.  So the members of Squad 1 boarded Rescue
2 and they rode in to the scene on Rescue 2.
          I believe their rig, as I said, came in
behind us.  As we came out of the tunnel, we
proceeded straight up West Street right behind
Rescue 2.  I came in right behind Rescue 2.  We
turned on Liberty Street and Rescue 2 pulled up a
little bit more north than I did.
     Q.   You made a left?
     A.   We made a left, went across the West
Side Highway to Liberty Street.  Rescue 2 pulled
up here, and there is a hydrant right here.  I
backed off so we didn't block the hydrant.  So I
was actually right back here.  I was probably
actually three-quarters of the way up the street.
There was a taxi loading zone there.  Rescue 2
pulled up a little bit.
     Q.   So that was between West Street and
South Avenue?
     A.   Correct.  It was just north of the
pedestrian bridge but -- that's where we pulled
in.
L. TIERNEY 7
          So then I got out of my car.  The
members of Rescue 2 were getting their equipment.
I got out of my car and put stuff in my back
seat.  I went into my trunk, and I got a jacket
that identified me and got my radio.  I did not
take a helmet.
          I started to walk across the street.  I
shut my trunk.  They were already moving across
the street, Rescue 2 was.  We started to walk
across the street into the lobby of building
number one.  So we had to walk across the divide
and then we came underneath the awning -- it's
not an awning.  It's a big super structure out in
front of tower number one.
          As we were coming across there, I
literally stepped across body parts and airplane
landing gear and airplane parts as I was coming
across the street.
     Q.   This is at building one?
     A.   This is walking across -- I walked up
West Street and walked across to building number
one.
     Q.   Rescue 2 and Squad 1, did they go into
building one too?
L. TIERNEY 8
     A.   Yes, I believe that they did.  I have
to say, in all honesty, I can't place Squad 1
there.  A member of Rescue 2 put his arm around
me as I was coming across the street and told me
to be careful because there were people jumping.
          I can't place with a great deal of
surety Rescue 2 in the lobby of that building.
But I believe Squad 1 came with them across.
However, I don't know, maybe the rig pulled up
right behind us and maybe they went back to the
rig to get some equipment.  Maybe they went
someplace else.  I'm not sure.  But I think they
came in right behind us.
          So I went into building number one.  I
walked through the window, walked through the
door, walked through the broken window to
building number one.  The first person that I saw
that I recognized was the Commissioner.  I spoke
to him.  I spoke to Chief Feehan.
          Before joining the Fire Department, I
worked for the Port Authority as the public
affairs director.  I was there the last time the
building blew up.  So I knew all the guys from
the Port Authority that were there.  I spoke to
L. TIERNEY 9
several of them, including Doug Corpela and Mike
Hurley, the fire safety director.  We went behind
into the fire command center back there.
     Q.   On the first floor?
     A.   It's right there.  It's right in the
lobby.  When you come in the lobby, there's a
desk and stuff right there, right facing you in
the lobby.  If you went over to the left, there
was a fire command center station.  We were all
in front of the fire command station.
          As I say, so many people from the Fire
Department were people that I remember seeing and
being with like the Commissioner, Bill Feehan and
Tom Fitzpatrick.
          At some point police officers came in
and said that they had a confirmed report of a
third plane coming into the building.
     Q.   (Inaudible.)
     A.   No, (inaudible).
          They said we have a report of a third
plane, everybody out, you've got to move
everybody out.  Chief Hayden came in here.  They
had command boards set up.  We had command
stations set up.  Chief Hayden came in here and
L. TIERNEY 10
had a discussion with somebody.  I don't know who
it is.  I think it's probably Joe Callan, but I
can't -- I know that from other people telling me
that.  I didn't recognize him that day or I don't
know that.
          But I did see Pete Hayden.  Pete Hayden
said we've got to move this command post out of
here.  There's a report of a third plane.  We
don't know what's going on here.  At which point
Bill Feehan, Tom Fitzpatrick and I went to find a
place where we could move a new command post.
     Q.   This was all before tower two came
down?
     A.   This is all before tower two came down.
          So Bill Feehan, Tom Fitzpatrick -- Tom
Von Essen walked away from us.  I believe he
walked straight out the windows and straight
across the street to West Street, over to these
other buildings.  Bill Feehan, Tom Fitzpatrick
and I walked through the lobby of building number
one, up the stairway which was an escalator,
which was off, into the pedestrian walkway.  We
walked across the pedestrian walkway.
          I said to Commissioner Feehan is this a
L. TIERNEY 11
good idea to be in here with these bodies falling
around us?  He said probably not.  We stepped it
up.  We kind of -- we were walking very quickly.
We weren't running, but we were walking very
quickly through this walkway.
          Three-quarters of the way through, we
met some security people from Merrill Lynch.  We
said you better get out of here, and they said
no.  We're with the building.  We said you better
get out of here, you better just move back, get
everybody out of here and just move back.  So
they did.
          Then we went down the steps into the
Winter Garden, and we came out into the corner of
the Winter Garden, right over here.  We went down
the steps and came over to this corner.  Bill,
Tom and I stopped and said, you know, this is not
going to work as a command -- we can't think
about putting it here with all this glass.  It
was pretty obvious of what was happening outside
in terms of people jumping.  I don't know if
somebody could make it that far to us, but
clearly debris could fall.
          So we exited the building, the three of
L. TIERNEY 12
us.  We walked along the back here and stopped
about here in the corner by the corner of North
Cove.
     Q.   By the Merrill Lynch Building?
     A.   Yeah, the three of us.  We just stopped
there.  This is the Trade Center.  The scene in
front of us, both buildings were fully engulfed,
the top floors.  I said to Bill, you know, I
can't believe this.  Now what's going to happen
here?  Bill was just very concerned.  We kept
walking.  We walked right straight through here
and walked through the gardens here and came up
the stairwell and came back out to Liberty
Street.  We walked across this lawn, back north
to, I guess we were just on the lawn here.
          We came right back up through to where
they eventually set up a command post.  We found
where they were.  In the driveway that went back
down into the garage, into the underground
garage.  Chief Ganci was there.  I saw Timmy
Stackpole.  I saw Ray Downey.  I saw Bill Feehan,
Tom Fitzpatrick and my aide Paul.
     Q.   They were all in front of The Winter
Garden?
L. TIERNEY 13
     A.   No, this was all right where they set
up the command post.  Right where they had had --
they had set up.  They had moved the command post
from the lobby of number one while we were
walking around.  They set it up it right here,
and it was on the edge of the driveway.  You know
there's a driveway that goes down in there.  I
can point it out.  It's right about here.
     Q.   The Merrill Lynch building?
     A.   Right.
          So also at this time Dr. Kelly raised
me on the radio and said where are you and then
she said she was in ten and ten.  I told her we
were directly across from the canopy of number
One World Trade Center.  That we were setting up
a command post there and she said I'm going to
come there.  I said okay, that's where we are.
She said who's with you?  And I told her who was
with me.
          Then my aide Paul was here.  I saw him
at the command post.  So he came over and said
what do you need, boss.  I said we should
probably get helmets out of the car.  I had
everything in the car and the car was just parked
L. TIERNEY 14
right there.
     Q.   On Liberty Street?
     A.   On Liberty Street.
          You know, when you think of the time,
when I heard the second plane go into the tower
in the tunnel, so now all this time has passed.
We took this huge long walk.  We came back here.
Paul went to my car, put some equipment in the
car, got some equipment out of the car, came back
to me.
          I gave Tom Fitzpatrick my helmet.  He
didn't have a helmet.  I gave him mine.  I
figured I was going to be doing press stuff or
something.  I didn't need it as much as he did.
We were all still standing here.
          At this point John McLaughlin, who is
the deputy director of OEM, came over and said --
to the Commissioner -- Father Delendick was here
too.  Father Delendick was extremely concerned
about the men who were staging back here.  There
was a huge pile of people staging here.  That's
where I saw Timmy Stackpole  they were waiting to
be ordered in.  Father Delendick was very
concerned about them witnessing people jumping,
L. TIERNEY 15
because at that point it was quite graphic.
     Q.   (Inaudible.)
     A.   So at any rate he -- John McLaughlin
came over and said the Mayor wanted to see the
Commissioner to do a press briefing and they were
going to do it at Park Place and Broadway, which
is right here.
          So the Commissioner, Ray Goldbach and
John McLaughlin started over that way.  I said to
Paul, we might as well go with them because I
figured I was of no use over here.  So we walked
this way.
     Q.   On Park Place?
     A.   Onto West Street.  We walked right here
to the corner of West and Vesey.
     Q.   That's where I was.  That's where I saw
you.
     A.   Okay.  So right here at West and Vesey.
I met up with the senior officials from the Port
Authority, Chief Bill Hall, Jeff Green, who's the
chief counsel, and Chris Ward, who's the chief
public relations guy.
          Because I had been press spokesperson
for the Port Authority before, I said to the
L. TIERNEY 16
Commissioner I'll catch up with you at Park Place
and Broadway.  I'll go this way with them.  I'll
find out what they have.
          To the best of my knowledge, he and Ray
continued up this way to Barclay.  I started this
way with Paul and those three guys from the Port
Authority.
     Q.   (Inaudible.)
     A.   No, he went towards Barclay.  We turned
on Vesey.  I left him at that point because Paul
and I were here.
          Were you there?
     Q.   I was right at Vesey and West because I
remember seeing you.  I saw the Commissioner go
past Vesey.
     A.   Right.  So we went this way and we were
right here, right at this corner of Washington
and Vesey, when that building fell.
     Q.   That's number two, building number two?
     A.   Building number two.  We started to
hear this rumble and luckily there was a loading
dock.  We just dove into the loading dock.  The
whole thing came -- you know, the whole thing
came down.  People crowded towards the back of
L. TIERNEY 17
the loading dock and they were trying to shove
into Broadway.
          I went up the steps of the loading
dock.  Everybody was running.  We went into this
doorway that was off the loading dock that led
into the building, but the door was locked.
There was a cop at the edge of the door.
Everyone was shoving and shoving and shoving into
it.  So I stepped back.  I didn't want to be
shoved in there too much.  The Port Authority
police inspector had his arm around me.  We were
pushed up against the wall.  Paul was right
behind me.
          Then the building came down.  It went
completely back and the entire space completely
filled with debris.  Not debris, not big pieces
of concrete or anything but stuff.
     Q.   When you left the command center, Chief
Feehan was there?
     A.   Feehan, Ganci.
          (Radio interruption.)
     A.   So we went in the loading dock.
Everything came down.  Everything turned black.
All this stuff came down.  It was totally black
L. TIERNEY 18
in there.  I called out for Paul, who was near
me.  We inched our way down the steps.  We
couldn't see anything.  You could barely breathe.
I'm sure you experienced the same thing.
          So then we got low and eventually stuff
lifted enough so we could make our way down the
stairs.  There were big pieces of equipment and
different stuff on the floor.  We managed to get
around that.  Then we made our way towards the
front of the loading dock.
     Q.   The loading dock was --
     A.   The loading dock was in the basement of
seven.  It was on the street level of Seven World
Trade Center.  They had set up as a little triage
area.
          So we eventually made our way up.
There were like three bays of this loading dock.
We inched our way along.  You couldn't tell if
you were inside or outside because it was
pitch-black.
     Q.   I'm sorry, you were with?
     A.   Me and Paul from the Fire Department.
There were no other Fire Department personnel
that I'm aware of.
L. TIERNEY 19
          We eventually made our way out and made
our way up Washington Street.  We went back.  We
were calling for people to follow us because we
knew we had the way out, because we could see a
little bit lighter air around.  I didn't see
people following us.  I don't know if people
followed us.  We go outside and we saw no one in
the street.  We saw nothing.  It was like a
snowstorm had happened.
          Eventually a cameraman I remember had
run in there with us, and eventually I saw the
cameraman emerge.  We asked if the other people
were out.  He said they're getting out.
Everybody's all right.  So we just kept going,
because now I was concerned about what happened
to them, because we didn't know what happened.  I
didn't know if this building fell down or that
building or whatever.
     Q.   Did you have a radio on at the time?
Because, I tell you, I didn't have radio
communications.  My cell phone wasn't working.
     A.   I had a radio with me.  I never thought
to use my radio for the dispatcher.  I was trying
to use this Nextel.  I wasn't even trying to use
L. TIERNEY 20
that then.  We made our way this way.
          I was going to try to meet up with the
Commissioner.  I just kept trying to find him and
wanted to make sure he was all right.  So we went
up to here to Barclay.  Then we went up one more
block to Park Place.  Then I said we're supposed
to go to Broadway, and we went up this way,
because there was just no people on the street.
It was a very strange thing.  There might have
been a few people and more and more emerged from
these doorways.
          Eventually, Paul and I stayed together
and made our way to City Hall.  When I arrived at
City Hall, I went inside City Hall.  I thought I
might find Tom in there, but the whole thing had
been evacuated.  So I saw Beth Hatton, Terry
Hatton's wife, who was the Mayor's assistant, and
several people from City Hall that I knew.  They
evacuated all of those people out of City Hall.
          Paul and I remained there with Larry
Levy, who is the chief counsel to the Mayor, and
Matt Mahoney, who was an advance guy and two of
the Mayor's security people.  I met one of the
Mayor's senior advanced security people.  I said
L. TIERNEY 21
is he all right?  Is Tom with him?  Do you know
where they are?  But people didn't know where
they were.
          So we tried to get on the phone.  We
kept getting intermittent phone service.  I would
say we were there probably, I'd say, ten minutes
before I got a call on my radio.  It was from Ray
Goldbach, telling me that he and the Commissioner
were all right, they were with the Mayor and they
had made their way up to the fire house.  It
might have been 15 minutes that we were here with
no communication and we didn't really know what
had happened.
          I called.  I got a telephone line.  As
I said, it was intermittent.  We called the
National Guard.  On Larry Levy's direction, we
called up the National Guard.  I think we called
the governor's office.  We got in touch with
Katie Lapp and told them that we needed to get in
touch with the National Guard.  That someone at
the Mayor's command post had asked for them.
          (Radio interruption.)
     A.   I'll just tell you, we remained at City
Hall and made several phone calls.  We found out
L. TIERNEY 22
where people were going to be operating out of.
At some point while we were there, I would say
there were about six of us at City Hall.  The
rest of the people had been evacuated.
          At some point the second building
collapsed.  A huge cloud came towards us at City
Hall.  We ran under the stairs in City Hall Park.
We went under the stairs right in City Hall.
Then the dust settled.
     Q.   After the first collapse you were only
with Paul?
A. Yes.
     Q.   When you first got to the scene, you
saw Rescue 2 goes in the tower?
     A.   Correct.
     Q.   You're not positive of Squad 1?
     A.   Correct.
     Q.   When you left to go down to Vesey,
Commissioner Feehan and Chief Ganci were still
at --
     A.   As I left here, I gave Timmy Stackpole
a high-five.  I touched him.  I can place him
there.  Pete Ganci turned to me and --
Q. Feehan?
L. TIERNEY 23
     A.   Chief Ganci spoke to me.  I was with
Commissioner Feehan.  I was with Tom Fitzpatrick.
I was with Father Delendick.
     Q.   Tom Fitzpatrick left with the
Commissioner?
     A.   No, Tom Fitzpatrick did not -- no, Ray
Goldbach went with the Commissioner, Ray Goldbach
and John McLaughlin.
     Q.   So before the first tower collapsed,
you were all at the command center --
          (Commissioner Tierney had a meeting to
     attend and had to end the interview
     abruptly.)
File No. 9110170
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
           EMT CURTIS JACKSON
   Interview Date:  October 30, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
C. JACKSON
2
          MR. CASTORINA:  Today is October 30th, 2001.
I'm Ron Castorina from the New York City Fire
Department conducting an interview at Battalion 31 with
EMT Curtis Jackson.  With me is...
          MR. DUN:  Richard Dun, Fire Department.
     Q.   Sir, can you tell me your name, your rank,
your title and your assignment?
     A.   Curtis Jackson, EMT.
     Q.   EMT at battalion--
     A.   Battalion 31.
     Q.   Can you tell me, on September 11th, 2001, on
that particular day, the events that took place?
     A.   Sure.  We came out of Brooklyn Hospital, me
and my partner that I was working with that day, and as
we went 98 --
     Q.   Who was your partner?
     A.   Decosta Wright.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   We hit the 98 button and got in our vehicle,
tried to head to our 89, and we heard the dispatcher
sending numerous units over to Citywide.  So we wanted
to find out what was going on, so we switched one of
our radios over to Citywide and we found out the World
Trade Center was on fire.  So we started to head over
C. JACKSON
3
into that direction towards the bridge and we asked the
dispatcher to give us that assignment.
          MR. CASTORINA:  Excuse me.  This interview is
conducted at 0615 hours.
Q. Go ahead.
     A.   As we requested to be placed on that
assignment, the dispatcher gave us the assignment, we
went 63 to the World Trade Center.  We shot right over
the bridge in about five or seven minutes and we pulled
up in front of One World Trade Center behind numerous
emergency vehicles, fire trucks and EMS vehicles that
were already there.  At that time we were just told --
     Q.   At this point what had happened; the first
plane had hit?
     A.   I'm sorry.  The first plane had hit already.
     Q.   That was the start; when you got there, the
first plane had hit?
     A.   The first plane hit.
     Q.   The tower was on fire?
     A.   Right.  The tower was on fire.  At that time,
as we were there, we were told to set up triage right
in the area where we pulled up at.  During that time I
saw numerous people just coming out of -- dropping out
of the sky, I mean, actually jumping to their death,
C. JACKSON
4
landing all over the place, crashing through glass,
crashing right on vehicles, on the street.  We were
just told to set up triage and wait for patients to be
brought to us, but nobody brought us patients because
there was nobody to bring out.
          I tried to use my cell phone, but I couldn't
get any transmission.  So myself, Decosta Wright and
EMT Felton started to head over to the building across
the street from where the towers were on fire.  As we
were heading over there, that's when I heard a big
explosion.  I didn't know what it was.  We turned
around and saw the second tower on fire and we started
running inside the building and we just ran.  It was
like a maze.  We didn't know where we were going.
          As we were running around in there, Decosta
and I had scaled a fence inside there because
everything was closed off inside, and as I scaled that
fence, I turned around to see where Felton was.  I
couldn't find out where he was.  So I turned back and
ran back to see where he was at to make sure he was all
right, and after that, I grabbed him, we all found an
exit out of there.  We went through some stairways out
to the rear of the building.
     Q.   Which building were you in, do you remember?
C. JACKSON
5
     A.   I'm not even sure.
     Q.   It was across the street?
     A.   It was across the street.  We ran out through
the other side, and as we exited that building, we were
told to move our emergency vehicles from the front of
the World Trade Center around the corner.
     Q.   Who told you this?
     A.   It must have been the Deputy Commissioner or
something.
     Q.   Was this on the radio or --
     A.   No, this was in person, physically.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   So as we were moving the vehicles around the
corner, like I said, I still kept seeing bodies jumping
out of the windows and landing all over the place and
glass and everything was flying all over the place, and
we moved our vehicles around the corner and at that
point we were told to move our vehicles further around
the corner.  I don't know what street that was.  As we
were moving our vehicles, my vehicle wouldn't start, it
was down, mechanical, because the lights were on but
the engine was shut off, and at that time all our keys
were collected, so I wasn't able to move the vehicle.
     Q.   Who had your keys, do you remember?
C. JACKSON
6
     A.   Somebody with a white shirt took everybody's
keys.
     Q.   Staging officer, I guess.
          MR. DUN:  Was this still before the second
plane hit?
          EMT JACKSON:  No.  This was after the second
plane hit.  The second plane must have hit when I heard
the explosion when we were running in the building.  We
started moving our vehicles again and everybody else
moved their vehicle.  I tried to get a jump from
another unit to move my vehicle.  At that time the
tower came down, was coming down, and at that point I
just started running and everybody was ahead of me and
I just started running, following them.  When I looked
back, you see the big -- a cloud of like dust and
buildings.  It was like it was a giant mutation of
something just chasing me.  Everybody ran towards the
water.  I ran towards the water.  Half the people ran
downtown and half the people ran uptown, as you hit the
water side.  So I ran uptown and everybody else ran
downtown -- no.  Half ran uptown, half ran downtown,
and I was just following the crowd.
     Q.   You ran uptown?
     A.   Yes.  I was just following the crowd.
C. JACKSON
7
Everybody --
     Q.   Did that dust catch up with you?
     A.   No, the dust never caught up with us.  I saw
people getting caught up from behind me who were slow,
who were running slow or just didn't make it.  After
that point, we waited for the dust to clear, and then I
went back to try to see if I could help anybody who
needed help, and at that point I was met with another
white shirt, an individual from the Fire Department EMS
command, and I was told to join another group to set up
triage downtown by -- there were two staging areas.
          MR. DUN:  South Ferry?
          EMT JACKSON:  South Ferry.
     A.   There was one uptown at Chelsea and there was
one at South Ferry.  I was told to join the group down
at South Ferry.  At that point the second tower came
down, so we started running again, and this time I ran
downtown and not uptown.  But this time I was further
away from where the collapse happened.
     Q.   When it started coming down?
     A.   Yes.  And the same thing again happened, I
mean, you seen a big cloud of dust again.  But I was
nowhere near that.  I went down to South Street to help
out with other EMTs, set up triage.
C. JACKSON
8
     Q.   Were you hearing any radio transmissions?
     A.   I heard a lot of radio transmissions.
     Q.   A lot of radio transmissions?
     A.   Especially when the first tower came down.
All I heard was Mayday and 1013, 1013.  I heard a lot
of commotion, a lot of screaming, a lot of yelling,
help, you know, a lot of calls for help.
     Q.   Then you ended up you were at triage and were
you receiving any injuries, people coming in?
     A.   We didn't receive any injuries.  The only
thing, people kept asking was can they hold a face
mask, a mask for the dust.  That was about it.
     Q.   How long did you stay there?
     A.   I stayed there until 11:00 o'clock that
night.
     Q.   You weren't injured in any way; you were
okay, breathing and everything?
     A.   Yes.  I just lost all my equipment, my radio.
     Q.   And your vehicle, I guess; that was under the
rubble?
     A.   The vehicle was under the rubble, but they
got it out like a week later.
     Q.   Your partner was okay?
     A.   My partner was okay.
C. JACKSON
9
     Q.   All right.  Is there anything else you can
think of that you want to add?
     A.   I try to forget.
     Q.   I understand.
     A.   There's nothing else I could add or want to
talk about.
          MR. CASTORINA:  Okay.  This concludes the
interview.  The time is now 0627 hours.  Thank you,
Mr.  Jackson.
File No. 9110171
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
            EMT BRIAN GORDON
   Interview Date:  October 30, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
B. GORDON
2
          LIEUTENANT DUN:  Today's date is October 30,
2001.  The time is 0820 hours.  I'm Richard Dun of the
New York City Fire Department working with Murray
Murad.  We're here interviewing Brian Gordon.
     Q.   Please state your title and your shield.
     A.   EMT, 5546.
     Q.   Can you give us the story or your account of
what happened on the day of September 11th, 2001?
     A.   Me and Brian Smith had just gotten back from
a late job and we were -- we had come in and dropped
off the vehicle, changed over vehicles because we were
31 Henry, Tour 1.  We had come into the station, did a
few things, dropped off our equipment, and Brian -- we
were leaving and we were walking up the ramp out here.
We got into the parking lot and Brian said did you hear
that boom?  We had heard just a boom and we looked over
and we saw a big ball of fire coming out of the tower.
          So we ran back down here and we said somebody
just bombed the tower.  So Lieutenant McCarthy gave us
ambulance 217 and he told us be careful and go over,
sign on, but be careful.
     Q.   So your lieutenant told you you were going to
be an extra unit?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay.
B. GORDON
3
     A.   I came out and checked out the ambulance real
quick and Brian came out with all our equipment and I
signed us on.  As soon as we signed on, we said we're
available, do you need us to go to the staging area?
And they said yes.  So we left from here and went into
Manhattan and we were coming down --
     Q.   Which way did you come into the city; over
the bridge or through the tunnel?
     A.   Over the bridge.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   I think we were coming down Church Street.
I'm pretty sure we were because this is where Brooks
Brothers is, right?
Q. Right.
     A.   Because I remember going past Brooks
Brothers.  Actually, like City Hall Park up here?  We
came down that way.
     Q.   You came down Broadway and you cut across one
of these streets.
     A.   Yes.  I think it was Dey Street.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   There were people over here bleeding and
stuff.  We came down Broadway to Dey Street and --
B. GORDON
what's that private ambulance company?
     Q.   Metro?
4
     A.   Metro Care.  They had a patient here having
an MI and they're like we need you guys to take care of
this patient, and we were like, you know, we're BLS,
too.  We can't do nothing.  Wait for medics.
          So we went down Dey Street to Church Street
and we were coming down Church Street and I remember
seeing like -- we were in front of Brooks Brothers,
little steps there.  There were like briefcases and
people's breakfast and shoes we saw laying on the
stairs and stuff.  We had already gone past the
intersection of Liberty and a police officer or
somebody, it was either you or a police officer was up
at the intersection.  I can't really remember.
          LIEUTENANT MURAD:  It wasn't me because --
          EMT GORDON:  You were down in the firehouse.
          LIEUTENANT MURAD:  I was at the firehouse.
PD had requested an ambulance to respond to the
firehouse for a couple injuries.
     A.   Yes.  That police officer flagged us here and
said we need you down at 10 and 10; there's people
coming out of the Trade Center and they're hurt pretty
bad.  So Brian had to back up, so I jumped out and I
B. GORDON
ran, grabbed my tech bag and ran.
     Q.   Towards?
     A.   Towards the 10 house on Liberty.
5
     Q.   So you ran west on Liberty to the 10/10
house.
     A.   I fell outside of 10 and 10.  I stepped on a
leg and I fell.  There was debris just from the first
tower all over there and everything.  So I got up and I
went into the 10/10 house and I saw Lieutenant --
          LIEUTENANT MURAD:  Murad.
     A.   -- Murad.  Then Brian backed the ambulance in
and we started taking care of patients in there.  Can
we go into like what kind of injuries they had?
     Q.   Yes.  You know your stuff.  That's the
purpose of all this now.
     A.   Out on the street, I remember I saw a little
shoe that still had a foot in it, a little girl's shoe,
and I could see body parts everywhere pretty much.  We
went in and there was a little Chinese lady and she was
severally burned and Rob, that fireman from Commack, I
don't know his name, he was already in there, too, and
there were firemen from 10 and 10.  I didn't see any
guys from 10 Truck in there.  I remember seeing guys
from 10 Engine and I think --
6
     Q.   So you saw the engine, but there were a lot
of guys that were still coming in?
     A.   Yes.  I don't remember really seeing any guys
from 10 Truck.  Actually, I did.  I saw one guy.  He
came in and just grabbed his gear and ran out.  So that
guy, Rob, told me what we had, and then Lieutenant
Murad told me we had a guy in the back that was hurt
pretty bad, had a broken hip.  So I went back there and
a little Chinese guy named Foo -- I can't remember if
that was his last name or his first name -- was sitting
in a chair and he wouldn't let me touch him and he
wouldn't let go of his briefcase.  I mean, I couldn't
even take his vitals because he wouldn't let me go near
him.  So finally I basically forced him to move his
hands so I could cut his pants and check his injuries.
          Then a fireman, he identified himself to me
as Paul Pansini from 10 Engine, came and helped me put
Foo in a KED.  I put it upside-down with the head down
here, to stabilize his hip, and he helped me hold him
up and do all that.  Then, as he was leaving, I said be
careful out there, and he's not here with us anymore.
                    B. GORDON
          LIEUTENANT MURAD:  10 Truck took off
already.
     A.   Yes.
B. GORDON
7
So we got him in the KED and he still wouldn't let me
anywhere -- he was guarding his chest with his
briefcase.  So I told him, I said, look, I've got to
take your blood pressure.  So he said hold on, hold on,
and he snapped open his briefcase and he took a wad of
hundred dollar bills, it must have been four or five
inches thick, out of his pocket and threw it in there,
and I looked in the briefcase and it was already full
of hundred dollar bills, stacks of them, all the way
across, with plane tickets and passports.  There must
have been $500,000 in there at least, if not like a
million.  He took two wads out like that and threw it
in the briefcase.  So I cut his sleeve off and took his
pressure and he was stabilized.
          So Brian was working on the other patients.
We started doing the triage tags.  Then I went up
towards the front of the building and I heard a loud
sound and the second plane, I guess, had hit the Trade
Center.  I ran outside with Brian.  We were looking and
we were just like holy shit, you know, this is really,
really bad.  There was pieces of the plane falling, and
I don't know if it was the plane or the building or
whatever, but something hit the ambulance, too, in the
front of the ambulance and like spiderwebed our
B. GORDON
8
windshield and everything and kind of caved it in a
little bit.  I don't know what it was, but I was told
that it was a piece of the engine from the second
plane.  I don't know.
          So we went back in and kept working on our
patients.  I started doing all the triage tags and I
went to work on the little lady, the little Chinese
lady.  The firemen had come back in, a bunch of
firemen, and I guess went upstairs and stripped their
bunks and brought down all blankets and pillows and
stuff and rearranged some chairs and got everybody who
was going to come, who was there, stabilized and
whatever.  I don't even know how long it was, but it
was a while.
     Q.   Did you get a lot of patients while you were
there?
     A.   I'd say between ten and 15 patients.  It
wasn't that many.  I remember seeing a guy out in front
of I guess it's 4 World Trade Center?  Isn't that the
one that was like -- or was that Tower 2?
          LIEUTENANT MURAD:  I think that was Tower 2
maybe.
trying to get in the doors of Tower 2 and I remember
EMT GORDON:  Because there was a man like
B. GORDON
9
you or -- we were both yelling at him.
          LIEUTENANT MURAD:  Right.  There were the
cops and we were all yelling at the guy to get away
from there.
          EMT GORDON:  Right.
          LIEUTENANT MURAD:  Even the detectives that
were over there.
          EMT GORDON:  Yes.
          LIEUTENANT MURAD:  I remember that.
     A.   We were yelling to him get out, get away from
the building, come over here, come over here, and he
wouldn't leave.  He looked like he was trying to get
back in.  Lieutenant Murad said there's nothing you can
do, come back in here.
          So we were in there working on the patients
some more, going around making sure that everybody that
was in there was stable, taking vitals and wrapping up
the little Chinese lady.  It was a while after the
second plane hit and firemen are coming in and out the
whole time and there was a Captain, I think he was from
Engine 10, he was in there most of the time.  Actually,
I remember, when we first got in there, the Captain
from 10 Truck was in there just for like a minute and
then he left, too.
10
     Q.   So you were in the house.  You were treating
patients.
     A.   There was like no more patients coming.
There was like nobody coming in.  Nobody was -- I
expected there to be thousands of patients.
Q. Right.
     A.   So I went out, you know, I stepped out of the
bay and I was looking up at the towers and it was like
raining paper and it was burning real bad and I started
noticing people jumping.  Then I went back in and I was
tending to the patients some more and we get a report
of a fireman down on Liberty Street west of the
firehouse, and Brian told me to stay with the patients
and he was going to go check on the fireman.
          So he went and checked on the fireman and
then he came back and he said we're going to set up a
rehab.  He said we're going to go break into the snack
trucks and take their Snapples and waters and stuff,
and he went back out, and then like maybe a minute
after he left, I heard the tower fall.  The tower
started to fall.  It was like real loud, like the No. 4
B. GORDON
LIEUTENANT MURAD:  No.
          EMT GORDON:  It wasn't him?  I remember
seeing some Captain from a truck company.
B. GORDON
11
train going over your head.  They came running in and
everybody was screaming the towers are falling, the
towers are falling, run.
          So basically all the patients started getting
up and running to the back and so did I, and the tower
hit and it was like it picked me up and threw me.  I
had somebody land on me, a couple people landed on top
of me, and I hurt my shoulder.  It was like black.  You
couldn't see, couldn't breathe.  My first instinct, I
started screaming for Brian, my partner.  I was really
scared that he was dead because I knew he was outside.
But he answered me and we found each other.  He had a
cut on his face.  He was bleeding.
          It was just -- it was like being in hell.
You couldn't breathe at all.  You tried to get low to
the floor and you couldn't breathe.  So everybody got
into the kitchen, in the kitchen of the 10 house.
     Q.   That was in the back of the firehouse?
     A.   In the back of the firehouse in 10 house, and
there was a fireman back there screaming.  He'd broke
his leg.  Brian was back there with me and there was a
couple firemen and an officer.  He was the Captain at
Engine 10.  I know that.  Brian told me what we need to
do is splint his leg, get a scoop stretcher, go out and
B. GORDON
12
see if you can get anything out of the ambulance.
          So I went out to the ambulance and all my
gear was inside the ambulance up in the passenger's
seat.  I'd lost my helmet and coat.  So an officer
yelled at me, told me to grab a coat and helmet off the
rack and put it on, so I did, and I got out to the
ambulance and the dust was like over my ankles.  There
wasn't any big pieces really in there, but like the
doors --
     Q.   So after the building collapsed, you were
able to move about inside the house?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   So I got into the ambulance and I opened up
the back.  I was able to get into the compartment where
they hold the long boards and stuff.  I grabbed the
scoop stretcher and grabbed some splints and some
cravats, found my tech bag and...
     Q.   Just treated patients?
     A.   Yes.  I started to treat the patients again.
But after I got all that stuff, I set it down and I
went to see if the radio still worked.
     Q.   Did it work?
     A.   Yes.  The radio was still going in the
B. GORDON
13
ambulance, but it was pretty fucked up.  The whole
thing was full of dust and it was crushed down in the
front.  So I radioed a Mayday.
     Q.   On the portable?
     A.   No.
     Q.   On the vehicle radio?
     A.   On the vehicle radio.
     Q.   Okay?
     A.   So then I went back in and Brian and I
started cutting the fireman's turnout pants off of him
and his boots and tried to get his leg as straight as
possible, splinted him up.  There were a few other
firemen that were helping us with the scoop stretcher
and moving things back so we could get around him.
     Q.   Were there a lot of civilians in there as
well?
     A.   There was -- yes.  All our patients were in
there.
     Q.   So you had a lot of civilians and some
off-duty MOS?
     A.   Yes.  The guy who was hurt told me he was a
cadet.  That's all I remember.  I don't remember his
name or anything.  The back window was blown out and
everything and by now there were more firemen and
B. GORDON
14
stuff.  Not everybody was in that kitchen as far as
firemen go.  They were going in and out through the
kitchen and into the doorway on the left.  It looked
like there was a stairwell in there.  There was like a
whole company of firemen showed up at the window, so we
were passing out patients through the window and then
we passed the fireman through the window.
     Q.   Now, the second building was still up?
     A.   The second building was still up.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   Then I don't even know how long it was, it
was a while we were doing all this, and then the
Captain, he was the last one in there with us and he
told us we've got to check the building, make sure we
don't leave anybody.  So I went out into the bay,
checked the bay, make sure there was nobody out there,
and that's when I heard the second tower start to
fall.  So I ran down the hall and Brian came out it
looked like from the stairwell area and the Captain was
there with him and we went into the bathroom and laid
on the floor in the bathroom while the tower was
falling.  That was it.  I said we're dead.
          The tower fell, it got black again, but this
time we had cling wrapped around our faces as masks,
B. GORDON
15
and we weren't dead, it was just black.  Then it
started to die down a little bit and we got up and we
said that's it, everybody out of here because the
building, it sounded like the building was groaning.  I
don't know if that was the building or what was outside
or whatever.  But we jumped out the window and there
was Foo right underneath the windowsill with Rob, and
the Captain came out and I had grabbed a hook because
somebody left a pole in there, and the Captain started
going off with the other firemen, so I gave him the
hook and I said, here, you might need that and waved
good-bye.
          I had managed to grab my tech bag, too.  So
we made our way, me, Brian, Rob and Foo, up Cedar
Street to, I guess --
     Q.   Trinity?
     A.   Trinity?  Is this still Church Street?
     Q.   Yes.
          LIEUTENANT MURAD:  Church turns into
Trinity.
     A.   Okay.  So it was Trinity Street, then.  We
walked Foo -- with his frigging briefcase, you know, he
couldn't walk, so we had to carry him.  We tried to
carry him one arm over each other and he had that
B. GORDON
16
frigging briefcase, it hit me in the face.  So I just
said, Brian, let go of him, and I fireman carried him
for a little ways and I put him down and then Brian did
it and we took turns.
          We made it up to 2 Rector Street and I
noticed there was people in the lobby in there and the
lights were on and it was clean in there.  So we
brought Foo in there and sat him in a chair.  They had
the radio on and everything in there and we were
hearing reports of hijacked airplanes and this, that
and the other thing over the radio, and then the
Pentagon got hit, and the security officer at the desk
or the fire safety officer, whatever he was, said that
there was somebody on the 7th floor having chest pains,
and he said there was nobody up working above the 7th
floor.  So I ran up to the 7th floor and there was just
an older guy in there and he was having it looked like
an anxiety attack or something.
     Q.   Were the elevators working in that building?
     A.   Yes, they were working.  But I didn't know if
the building had been hit with debris or anything else,
so we told the safety officer to turn off the
elevators, lock them down in the lobby.  I came back
down and I met Brian in the stairwell and he said,
B. GORDON
17
look, he said, we've got to get these people out of
here.  This was on like the second floor.  So we came
back down to the lobby and we told the guy to put an
announcement over for all the people in the building to
come down to the lobby.
          So people started coming down the stairs and
we went back up the stairs and we were checking the
floors.  So all these people were standing in the
lobby, there must have been maybe a hundred in the
first group, and Brian jumped up on the security desk
and was like giving them orders, directions and stuff.
We gave Rob our stuff.
          Then there was cops outside and they came in
and they said just come out the door and go straight
and head towards the light, you know, that's the way
out of here.  So we had Rob go with the first group out
and we waited for more people to come because there was
still more people coming.  We were waiting.  We
couldn't carry Foo anymore.  So we waited, and then a
cop car pulled up outside, so we went out and stuffed
Foo in the cop car.  Then we came back in and another
cop came in and there was like probably about a hundred
people in the lobby and they didn't have anything to
cover their faces with, so I took off my shirt and
B. GORDON
18
handed a lady my knife and I said make some dust masks
out of it.
          The cop led that group of people out, and we
made one last announcement and we waited like five more
minutes and nobody else came down, so Brian and I went
outside and that's where we met with Lieutenant Murad
again.  I thought he was dead.  I lost him after that.
I didn't see him again.  But seeing him was like seeing
Santa Claus.  I was happy.  He told us he had a car
just a couple blocks away.
          So I don't even know which way we walked.  I
know we walked by a church.
          LIEUTENANT MURAD:  We made it down to Pearl.
     A.   Pearl?
     Q.   (Inaudible)?
     A.   Yes.  We walked and we walked and walked and
walked and then walked some more, and my ankle was
really hurting.  So I told Lieutenant Murad, I said, I
can't walk anymore, you know, I need to sit down for a
minute, and he said, all right, you two wait here and
I'll go get the car.  So we waited there and we sat on
a vendor's table, a guy selling belts, and Lieutenant
Murad came back with his car, it was all fucked up.
The back window was smashed in, it was full of dust and
B. GORDON
19
debris, it was all crunched up in the back.
     Q.   It looked like a Rolls-Royce, I bet.
     A.   Yes.  It was like a Sherman tank to me.  I
didn't care.  So we got in and we drove and we got to
100 Wall Street and we saw a conditions boss, an EMS
conditions boss, Conditions 55.
     Q.   You don't know his name, do you?
     A.   No, I don't.  Brian would remember his name.
We talked about him this morning.  He had braces.  He
was kind of a dork.
Q. Okay.
     A.   We identified ourselves as EMS and he told
us, well, good, because we've got a patient for you.
So we went into 100 Wall Street and there was a lady in
there, she was having a legit anxiety attack, you know,
there wasn't nothing wrong with her.  I mean, we didn't
have any equipment.  He took his oxygen.  He was like,
all right, go take care of this patient, but he left us
with nothing.  I was like whatever.
          She sat there and she was talking to us and
she was more concerned about us.  I don't know, we sat
there for it must have been an hour, hour and a half it
seemed like.  Brian kept using his portable to radio
out, 09, we need an ambulance at this location, what's
B. GORDON
20
the ETA?  All I kept remember hearing is there'll be
one there when it gets there, basically.
          So an NYPD traffic van pulled up outside and
Lieutenant Murad was outside and I was like, we need to
get back to Brooklyn.  I don't even know what time this
is.  This is maybe an hour or two after the second
tower fell.  I'm not even sure.  But we were hurting
pretty bad.  So we wheeled this lady in her chair out
and they put her in the traffic van.
          Then Conditions 55 pulled up again and he's
like, I'm ordering you to go to the hospital with the
patient, you need to go to the emergency room.  I was
like, no.  Me and Brian were both like, no, we need to
go back to our station, and he was like, I'm ordering
you, and we were like, basically, what I'll do is
(inaudible), you can kiss my ass.  I'm sorry I may get
a CD out of that but --
     Q.   It's okay.  Listen.  In times of crisis, all
bets are off.
     A.   Exactly.  So he said whatever, just get back
to Brooklyn then and make sure you go to an emergency
room.  So, you know, yes, sir.  He said go that way to
the pier.
     Q.   Which was South Ferry?
B. GORDON
21
     A.   Was it South Ferry?  It's right down from
Battalion 4.
     Q.   Probably South Ferry.
     A.   Probably.  I know it was on the East River.
We made it down to South Ferry.  There was a ferry slip
there and there was like thousands of people there.  It
wasn't too far we had to walk, but it seemed like
miles.  There was a bench down there at the right end
of the ferry slip, and we sat on the bench and cops saw
us sitting there and so they all ran over and they were
like, oh, are you guys all right, are you all right?
People were handing me cigarettes because my cigarettes
were in the ambulance.  A priest came over and he gave
me my last rites.  So at this point I'm thinking, damn,
I must be pretty fucked up.  Do I got something
sticking in me or something?
          So the cops basically carried us, escorted us
up to the ferry to Brooklyn.  They called it back
because it had just left.  We got on the ferry and --
     Q.   The PD boat, right?
     A.   No.  We initially got on the ferry and people
started running up to us, clapping, cheering, crying,
giving us water bottles and water and everything.  Then
PD came back on and took us off and brought us to the
B. GORDON
22
end of the slip there and the harbor patrol boat came
over.  I guess it's harbor patrol.
     Q.   Yes.  PD boat.
     A.   PD boat.  They put us on the PD boat and
brought us to the Navy yard.  We got off at the Navy
yard and I remember looking back across the river and
just seeing a huge billow of smoke and dust and it was
horrible.  Then some guy in a van --
     Q.   You ended up in Brooklyn?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Where in Brooklyn; by the Navy yard?
     A.   In the Navy yard, where the Fire boats are.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   There were no Fire boats there, but that's
where we got off.  There were the firemen all there
from -- I guess they were from the boats and they
helped us off the boat.  A guy -- I don't remember
where he was from.  I think he was from Cumberland
Hospital, in a Cumberland Hospital community van or
something.  He picked us up and he brought us down here
to the station.
          We came in the station and everybody saw us
and started like freaking out.  Not freaking out, but
they were like are you guys all right, are you guys all
B. GORDON
23
right, giving us 02 and making us drink saline.
Somebody gave me a thing of saline to drink and I
almost threw up.  So our superior officer, Captain
Fried here, ordered us to go to the emergency room.  So
they long boarded us and collared us and the whole nine
and put us in an ambulance and brought us to KCH, and
they took care of us at KCH.
          They admitted Brian.  They released me.  I
told them I wanted to stay with Brian because the whole
time when we were at the Trade Center and everything, I
kept telling him -- he's like, oh, I've got to go out
here to do this, I've got to go out here to do that.
So I was getting mad at him.  I was like, you're my
partner.  I ain't going to leave you.  I'm coming with
you.  He's like, no, you've got to stay with the
patients.  So my partner was fucked up and I wasn't
going to leave him.  Some doctor was like, well, no,
you can't stay with him, you've got to leave, and I
basically told him go fuck himself, started getting in
an argument with him, and that Captain -- what's her
name?  Red hair.
Q. Gloffke.
     A.   Gloffke.  She pulled me aside and talked to
that doctor and they're like, all right, you can stay
B. GORDON
24
with him.  So they brought me back here and I took a
shower and I went back and I stayed with Brian
overnight, and that's when we were actually watching
CNN, watching the towers fall, when the plane hit it,
over and over and over and over again, and that's when
his mother-in-law called him and asked him if he'd
heard anybody from hazmat, and that's when he realized
his father was there.  So he called hazmat and his
father was missing and he was pretty upset.  I feel bad
for him.  I knew his father for years and years.  He
was a good man, wrote the manual on 288, hazmat.  Good
man.  Basically, they released him the next day and we
came back to the station and we went home.
          LIEUTENANT MURAD:  Okay.  That concludes the
interview and --
          LIEUTENANT DUN:  Just one quick question.
When the initial call came in, were you operating on
Citywide?
          EMT GORDON:  Yes.
          LIEUTENANT DUN:  From the beginning?
          EMT GORDON:  Yes.  When we logged on, we were
on Brooklyn North, and then we said we're available, do
you need us to go to the staging area?  They said yes,
we do, switch to Citywide, so we switched to Citywide.
B. GORDON
LIEUTENANT MURAD:  Okay.
25
          LIEUTENANT DUN:  The time is 0910 and that
concludes the interview.
File No. 9110172
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
          CAPTAIN JAY SWITHERS
   Interview Date:  October 30, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
J. SWITHERS
2
     MR. MURAD:  Today is October 30, 2001.  The
time is 14 hundred hours.  I'm Murray Murad with
George Cundari of the Fire Department of New York
City.  I'm conducting an interview with --
     MR. SWITHERS:  Jay Swithers, Captain of the
Bureau of Health Services of the Fire Department.
     MR. MURAD:  This is being conducted at the
Bureau of Investigations and Trials regarding the
events that took place on September 11, 2001.  Go
ahead.
     MR. SWITHERS:  On the morning of September
11, which happened to be my 40th birthday, I was
hanging out downstairs in the Bureau of Health
Services down on the second floor, having a donut
and coffee.  My pager went off, indicating there
was a plane into the building in the World Trade
Center.  At that point I looked into the lounge
area where they have a television and I saw the
gaping hole in the north tower.
     At that point, I prepared my equipment, I
changed into my urban search and rescue uniform,
including boots, EBU pants and work shirt and
carried my equipment, all my equipment down to my
office.  I then went up to RCC to see if they
J. SWITHERS
3
implemented or contacted the Urban Search and
Rescue medics, to see if there were any orders
given at that time.  There were no orders given.
I looked for transportation to get to the site.
When I returned down to my office where my
equipment was, I was told that a second plane had
hit the south tower.
     At that point, I picked up all my equipment,
big duffle bag and started to run to the bridge.
I was prepared to run over the Brooklyn Bridge;
however, I was stopped by a police officer who
told me to wait and that something would be coming
over the bridge to drive me over.  I was picked up
by a city car, black unmarked, Crown Victoria with
lights and sirens, which came to a skidding halt
in the third lane of the Brooklyn Bridge and the
man opened up the door and said get in.
     I opened up the back door, threw my equipment
into the back seat.  He asked me who I was.  I
told him I was a paramedic and he proceeded to
drive across the bridge.  As I got to the other
side, he got on his PA and was screaming get out
of way, I have a paramedic on board, all the way
down to the World Trade Center.
J. SWITHERS
Q.   Was he a police officer?
4
A. Idon'tknow. Hewasaguyinasuit. He dropped me off at the corner of Vesey Street and Church, where I was able to see a small triage center set up one block away on Church and Fulton, directly in front of the Millennium Hotel.
     Q.   Who was there?
     A.   Janice Ocheski.  There were also the
paramedics from the Bureau of Health Services.  Corey,
what's Corey's last name.  I don't know.
          MR. MURAD:  Romanowski.
     A.   Bonnie.
Q. Regan?
     A.   Regan.  And Carlos Lillo was there with us,
and one of my employees who works light duty, Farouk
Mohammed.  There were a lot of other people there but
those are the ones that I remember.
     Q.   At the triage center?
     A.   Manny Delgado was there, Dr. Cherson was
there, and about 20 people all together in the
contingency.  While I was there, my primary goal was to
try to find Chief Downey, because Chief Downey is the
Chief of Special Operations Command and that's who the
USR paramedics would report to.  Nobody could tell me
J. SWITHERS
5
where he was.  Most of the EMS people didn't know what
special command was or who Chief Downey was.
          I realized they were overwhelmed and I
proceeded to help them.  One particular person that
came to mind was a very obese African American woman
who came out of the building and was being assisted by
other people when she sat down on the wall in front of
the Millennium Hotel.  When I went over to her, they
said that she has asthma.  She was hysterical.  I
listened to her lung sounds.  Her lung sounds were
clear.  I prepared to calm her down and was giving her
oxygen.  When I was giving her the oxygen, setting up
the tank, you could hear a loud rumble.  Somebody said
run for your life.  I turned to see who was yelling
run.
          At that point I looked back and most of the
people who were triaged in that area with the triage
tags on them got up and ran.  I took a quick glance at
the building and while I didn't see it falling, I saw a
large section of it blasting out, which led me to
believe it was just an explosion.  I thought it was a
secondary device, but I knew that we had to go.
          When I looked down at my patient, she was no
longer there.  She had already ran and I started to
J. SWITHERS
6
run.  I ran eastbound on Fulton Street, but I only got
to the loading bins of the bays of the Millennium
Hotel.  At the loading bays of the Millennium Hotel,
there was a large truck backed up to the bay door,
which was closed.  I dove into the back of the truck
and you could see everything getting real real dark and
the sound of large pieces of metal were falling all
over, making loud pinging noises, just all over, all
around the vehicle.  I managed to crawl up to the
garage door and cupped my hands in front of my face,
between my face and the door and at that point it was
like a major storm had hit; continuous blasting of
debris hitting my face, hitting my body.  It was like a
major storm.
          I had my helmet on and the only thing I could
breathe was if I was just breathing dirt.  I was
breathing dirt and for the few moments I was breathing
dirt, I prayed that if I was going to die I wouldn't
suffocate and I prayed that if I was going to die - the
large I beams were falling and I could hear them - that
one of them would hit me and not let me suffer.  I had
no clue what had happened.  It became very very dark
and I just struggled to breathe.  At that point
thoughts went through my mind such as I should have
J. SWITHERS
7
stayed in the office.
          Also the fact that I was going to die on my
birthday was horrible and that I couldn't remember if I
actually kissed my kids in the morning or last night.
Numerous thoughts.
When the sound had stopped, my ears were ringing. It was so loud and it was real real black and I felt somebody grab my helmet and say we have a firefighter here. He could help us out. I didn't tell him I was a firefighter, but I didn't know if I could seeorifIwasalive. IsaidisitrealdarkoramI blind. The voice came back and said it's just really dark. The group of people said what do we do. They were hacking and coughing. I didn't know what to say, so I said we need to know how many people are here. Count out loud. The first person counted one. The second person counted two. The third person counted three. I was about to count four when somebody else counted four. I was again about to -- and this went all the way up to nine. I didn't realize there were nine people there.
     Q.   All in the loading dock area?
     A.   All in the loading dock area.  They cried
what do we do.  We stayed there a moment and nobody was
J. SWITHERS
8
really trapped.  We were able to see a little orange
with about a foot between the top of the truck and the
dirt and we realized we weren't trapped.  Everybody
pushed their ways through into the orange and they were
able to see just enough to get out.  Everybody had dirt
and soot all over them.  Some of them were bleeding,
but they took off up the block.  I remember getting out
and being really confused and turning back and looking
at building number 5 and just seeing orange and feeling
heat, not knowing what was going on, or if it was on
fire.
          I started walking east.  As I walked east I
approached a Fire Department command car, a Suburban
with the lights on and the engines running.  I saw
someone who I figured to be a police officer, take his
gun out of the holster and start whacking the drivers
side window.  I said stop, what are you doing, he said
we are just trying to get out of here.  I said don't do
that and he wandered off.  As I walked up the street I
tripped over a television camera for a television
network that somebody had dropped.  I proceeded up to
the corner of Broadway and Fulton, where I found
Lieutenant Bruce Medjuck.  Lieutenant Bruce Medjuck had
a radio, which I didn't have.  We decided we were going
J. SWITHERS
9
to regroup.  We saw very few EMS people.  The only EMS
people I remember seeing at that point was Lieutenant
Patrick Scaringello, and he insisted that we should try
to salvage a vehicle that was on fire on Church
Street.
          I told him there was no reason to try to
salvage a vehicle.  We didn't know what had happened
and he sort of wandered off.  We agreed that we were
trying to regroup.  Patients were just coming out of
the woodwork; some badly injured, some being gathered,
carried by citizens, some being carried by civil
service workers.  We decided to put them into an ATM on
that corner, at the corner of Fulton and Broadway,
where there was an ATM machine, a little area that we
could put people.  We started to place them into that
area.
          Within a few moments, I regrouped with Bruce
Medjuck and I asked him to tell them on the radio to
send us MTA buses to get people out.  That didn't
happen.  But one thing that did happen was an ambulance
pulled up which was very clean.  So I assumed that the
vehicle had not been in the - what I thought was an
explosion at the time, but was the first collapse.
          When the ambulance pulled up, two EMTs jumped
J. SWITHERS
10
out.  They gave out simple face - dust masks to people
and people started to charge the ambulance.  One man
was actually brought over in a wheelbarrow.  When the
people started to charge the ambulance, they started to
climb in.  There had to be maybe 5, 6 patients in
there, when the original African American, heavy set
black woman came to me and she was once again crying.
I was actually happy to see her because I knew that she
had survived the collapse and I knew she was the one
person that I was primarily responsible for.  Although
later on, and I knew at that time, that there were
people in that triage area that probably did not
survive because they were not able to get up.  I knew
that one person did survive.
          I wasn't able to lift her because I didn't
have the strength, but I helped her get up on to the
back step of the ambulance and pushed her into the back
of the ambulance while the EMTs in that ambulance were
crying no more, we are full, we are full, no more.  I
pushed her and she wound up laying on the floor of the
ambulance.  I was just about able to close the door of
the ambulance by pushing her feet in a little further.
I had to push her feet in and close the door.  At that
point, I asked Bruce Medjuck do we have tracking on
J. SWITHERS
11
this ambulance and he said tracking, it's like the end
of the world.  This is a major disaster.  Just get them
out of here.  I agreed.
          While standing there once again trying to
figure out what to do next, I saw car 33, which is the
medical car that is the doctor's car, Crown Vic from
the Bureau of Health Services that the doctor drives
around.  The Bureau of Health Services pulled up just
behind the ambulance.  Inside that car was Dr. Ortiz.
She is a female doctor that works in the Bureau of
Health Services, a driver and 3 firefighters were
sitting in the back seat of the Crown Vic, one of which
I know very well.  She had only opened up the window
maybe 3 quarters of the way and she was holding her
jacket in front of her face not to get the debris or
dust that was in the air into her airway.
          I told her that many people died, a lot of
people from the Bureau of Health Services seemed to be
dead, I don't know where they are.  They seemed to be
missing.  I don't remember saying there was a
collapse.  I remember saying I don't know what
happened.  It's real real bad.  At that point they had
told me we will pull over and help you.  I told them we
were regrouping.  They said they were going to pull
J. SWITHERS
12
over and help.  They turned the vehicle left so they
were facing east on Fulton and pulled over.  When they
started to get out of that vehicle, which I didn't see,
but they told me later on, that that's where the second
building, building number 2, the north tower, started
to collapse.
          I immediately just started to run, first
north and then east on to Ann Street.  As I was running
I was looking over my shoulder and I heard the rumbling
and I saw the cloud chasing me very quickly with
debris.  Once again falling. I saw a bunch of people
standing in a loading bay with the door halfway down
saying come in here, follow me in here.  When I got
there the man said let's pull down the door.  There had
to be ten of us trying to pull down the door.  As we
were pulling down the door the cloud and the thrust of
the cloud knocked us all down to our knees and it
continued to blow continuously into this bay door.
          The people in the back were screaming.  I
managed to get back up from my knees to my feet and
grabbed the door and looked over and there was maybe
only three or five guys left trying to pull the door
down.  As we continued to try to pull the door down,
the door actually started to go up.  I didn't realize
J. SWITHERS
13
it was going up until I realized I was off my feet.  I
said I had to let go.  I anticipated landing on my feet
but with the continuous thrust of the air coming
through, I actually wound up face down on my helmet.  I
was stunned and confused, why was I down.  I didn't
know if I was dead or what was happening, once again
taking in a lot of the dirt.  I didn't know what to
do.  Somebody grabbed the back of my collar and dragged
me down the loading bay to safety.
          At that point I didn't need their help any
more and they were strangling me and finally let go of
my collar.  I could get up.  We entered down into the
main hallway of the building.  We got into the building
and another group of people found the door into what
seemed to be Genovese drugstore.  We went into the
Genovese drugstore and a large group of people pushed
for the Poland Springs water that was on the shelves.
A security guard that didn't know what was happening in
the store said stop, what's going on, are you all
crazy.  A police officer pulled out a gun and pointed
it at the security guard.  These people need the
water.  Don't you understand what's happening.  The
security guard said he didn't know what was happening.
He said it's quite all right.  Have all the water you
want.
J. SWITHERS
14
          I was confused.  I didn't know what was
happening.  I looked out the windows of the store.
Complete blackness.  Not knowing what was happening.  I
started to walk through the store and realized there
were a lot of things that people could use in the
store.  I found small duffle bags.  I took three or
four of them off the shelf.  I was stuffing water and
Band-Aids, some things as ridiculous as Tampons, making
goodie bags for people to take out with them and for
myself.
          I prepared the bags and the people then
rushed the door.  There was a police officer standing
in the doorway and said nobody will leave the room,
nobody will leave the store.  At that point I figured
maybe I will call my wife.  I picked up my cell phone
and I managed to get through.  My wife picked up the
phone.  She was hysterical crying.  I told her I was
okay.  At that point I asked her what had happened.
She told me that they are gone.  They are not there.  I
couldn't imagine that both the buildings were gone.
          I said what are you talking about.  Are the
children gone?  What you are you talking about.  She
told me the buildings are gone.  I said what buildings
J. SWITHERS
15
are gone.  She said the World Trade Center is gone.  I
said how do you know.  She said I have seen it on TV.
She was watching regular TV and switched to CNN because
she lost regular TV.  She told me not more than two
floors of that building could be there.  I was
stunned.
          At that point somebody yelled that there was
a bomb in the building that we were in.  The police
officer opened up the door and let people out.  I asked
if there was anybody left in that building.  They said
there were a couple of people maybe in the basement.
So I ran down into the basement, maybe three floors,
and there were a couple of maintenance workers who
apparently didn't speak English.  I told them they had
to leave the building and there was probably a bomb.
They looked at me and said that they had to clock out
first or check with their supervisor.
          I said I'm telling you to leave.  I'm
leaving.  You can stay as long as you want, but I'm
leaving.  I ran upstairs and I left the building.
There was no bomb in the building.
          When I got outside I met up with EMT Farouk
Mohammed, who happens to be an Islanmic Muslim, which I
didn't know at the time.  He happened to work light
J. SWITHERS
16
duty with me in the Bureau of Health Services because
of a shoulder injury.  He was walking with two men and
had a plastic garbage bag and was giving out water and
rags to people in the street.  He approached me and
gave me a big hug.  He asked me if I was okay.  I told
him I had ringing in my ears but I seemed to be okay.
          At that point we met up with Manny Delgado
and Dr. Cherson and they told us that the people were
grouping at South Street Seaport, which was east, so we
started to head east.  While we were heading east,
Farouk was able to hand out water and rags, but we had
no other equipment available.  People said to us what
do we do, what do we do.  I told them it was in their
best interest to run northeast, to get out of there.
We had no medical equipment.
          When we got up to, I guess Pearl Street and
Fulton Street, a man came to us and said that he had an
OR available in one of the stores, I guess a clinic.
All we needed was equipment and people.  I said that we
didn't have equipment or people, but I would keep that
in mind.  We walked another block east, right up to the
edge of South Street Seaport where the plaza is and
that's where I saw car 33 up on the curb.  It looked
like it had crashed into a pole or something.  It was
17
          We waited there for 2 or 3 minutes.  We
couldn't figure out where they went, so we continued.
When we got to South Street Seaport, somebody told us
that's not where they were.  The people were regrouping
at the ferry terminal.  Farouk Mohammed and I walked to
the ferry terminal and started helping with a triage
center with very few patients.  It was at that point
that we got separated and I was asked to go up to
Chambers and West for UCAR responsibilities.  I got a
ride from a Lutheran Medical Center ambulance as far
north as possible to that area.
          I walked up there.  That's just about my
story.
     Q.   Did you have any portable radios or radio
contact with anybody?
     A.   I had no raido contact except when Bruce
Medjuck was standing next to me at the -- well, I had
radio contact through people while we were doing triage
in front of the Millennium and following that the only
radio contact I had was through Bruce Medjuck, who got
on the air and said I have Captain Swithers with me and
we are trying to regroup.
J. SWITHERS
sitting there.  Nobody was in it.  These were the
original people I saw.
J. SWITHERS
18
     Q.   That was at Citywide?
     A.   I don't know what it was done on.
     Q.   You never saw EMS Chiefs or Chief Downey?
     A.   Thank god I never had the opportunity to see
Chief Downey.  I didn't see any EMS Chiefs until I
regrouped at the South Street Seaport and that's where
I saw Chief McCracken for the first time and Chief
Vallani.
          MR. CUNARDI:  I would like to thank you
     Captain Swithers.  The time is 1425 hours.  This
     now concludes the interview with Captain Jay
     Swithers.
          THE WITNESS:  I saw Chief Vallani and Chief
     McCracken at the ferry terminal.  Just a
     correction.  I said South Street Seaport.

FILE NO 9110173
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT VERONICA JACOBS
INTERVIEW DATE OCTOBER 30 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

JACOBS
MR ECCLESTON TODAYS DATE IS OCTOBER 30
2001 THE TIME IS 2155 HOURS IM
ECCIESTON OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME TITLE AND ASSIGNED
COMMAND AREA REGARDING SEPTEMBER 11 2001
MY NAME IS VERONICA JACOBS BATTALION 58
IM AN EMT
ALSO PRESENT AT THIS INTERVIEW IS
CHRISTINE BASTEDENBECK OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE
VERONICA WERE YOU WORKING ON THE MORNING OF
SEPTEMBER 11 2001 YES
YCRNI ASSIGNED
DISASTER
YES
CAN YOU PLEASE TELL ME IN YOUR OWN WORDS ABOUT THE EVENTS OF THAT DAY
WELL WHEN GOT HOME FROM WALKING THE CIRCLE WITH MY SON AND MY NEIGHBOR TOLD ME THAT PLANE
CRASHED INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER SO WENT INSIDE TO WATCH TV TO SEE WHAT HAPPENED AND CALLED MY
TUM IH WCTRADE
CHRISTOPHER

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BATTALION TO SEE IF THEY NEEDED TO ME TO COME IN SPOKE TO LIEUTENANT HOOVER WHO TOLD ME YES COME INTO THE BATTALION AND WORK OVERTIME
SO ANYWAY TOOK SHOWER GOT DRESSED AND
JUMPED IN MY CAR AND PROCEEDED TO COME FROM NEW JERSEY TO BROOKLYN WHEN GOT TO THE GOETHALS BRIDGE THERE
WAS CHECKPOINT WITH STATE TROOPERS AND POLICE OFFICERS WHO WERE CHECKING VEHICLES AND STOPPING
EVERYBODY AND CHECKING ID TOLD THEM THAT NEEDED TO PROCEED OVER TO BROOKLYN TO WORK OVERTIME FOR THE
WORLD TRADE CENTER AND THEY TOLD ME YOU ARE EITHER GOING TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER STRAIGHT FROM HERE OR YOU GO HOME SO TOLD THEM TO LEAD THE WAY
SIDEWALK AND IH PARKED TUM CM IH SIR AND WE WALKED WITH MY THUMB OUT TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
AT LEAST TOWARDS THE BLACKNESS THE DARKNESS WE COULDNT SEE ANYTHING THERE WAS SO MUCH DEBRIS AND
GOT POLICE
BRIDGE TO BEEKMAN HOSPITAL AND PARKED ON THE
DUST EVERYWHERE
WE WENT INSIDE BEEKMAN FIRST AND
ESCORT FROM THE GOETHALS
GOT COUPLE OF MAPS TRIED TO CALL THE BATTALION AND TELL THEM WAS IN MANHATTAN INSTEAD OF COMING TO BROOKLYN
BUT THE PHONE WAS BUSY SO PROCEEDED WITH THEM TO TRY

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AND FIND THE EMS COMMAND WHEREVER THAT COULD HAVE BEEN BECAUSE WE COULDNT SEE STREET SIGNS
WHEN WE GOT GUESS ABOUT TWO BLOCKS FROM THE WORLD TRADE CENTER COULDNT TELL YOU WHAT STREET WE WERE ON
DO YOU KNOW ABOUT WHAT TIME THIS WAS
IT WAS ABOUT 905
905
YES THERE WERE PEOPLE RUNNING TOWARDS US
AND TELLING US THEY NEEDED HELP DOWN THAT WAY AND POINTING BEHIND THEM SO WE PROCEEDED TO GO DOWN THAT WAY HOPING THERE WAS EMS OR SOMEBODY THERE
WHEN FINALLY REALIZED WHERE WAS WAS STANDING IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING THAT DIDNT COME DOWN YET THE TOWER THAT DIDNT COME DOWN YET NOT EVEN KNC 1HA1 IH FIRSI RAMS DC DIDNT KNC WHAT IT WAS THAT THEY WERE RUNNING FROM
LOOK UP AND IM LIKE THIS LOOKS LIKE THE WORLD TRADE CENTER THINK WE SHOULD JUST BACK UP AND
START LOOKING FOR MY COMMAND AND THE TROOPER WAS LIKE OKAY LETS START WALKING ALL OF SUDDEN LARGE
RUMBLING AND PEOPLE WERE RUNNING AND JUMPING AND
HITTING THE FLOOR NEXT TO ME AND IT JUST GOT BLACK AND
GRAY AND COULDNT SEE AND WAS RUNNING FOR MY LIFE

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WITH MY HANDS IN FRONT OF ME HECAUSE DIDNT KNOW WHAT THE HELL WAS HAPPENING
WE TRIPPED AND WE FELL AND LOST THE
TROOPERS AND DONT KNOW WHERE THEY WENT BUT THEY ARE
ALIVE ENDED UP FINDING OUT BECAUSE THEIR CAR WAS GONE WHEN GOT BACK SO ASSUME THEY ARE ALIVE
THEIR CAR IS GONE SO SOMEBODY GOT IT
WHEN FINALLY GOT OUT OF THE DUST TRIPPING SEVERAL TIMES AND CRASHING INTO TELEPHONE POLES AS WAS RUNNING BECAUSE COULDNT SEE IT CLEARED UP
ABOUT 10 MINUTES LATER BUT AS IM RUNNING IM TRYING
TO HELP PEOPLE WHO NEEDED HELP TO RUN OR TO WALK OR
JUST TO BREATHE TRYING TO COVER THEM WITH MY SHIRT OR WHATEVER COULD DO BECAUSE HAD TWO MASKS ON MY FACE FROM THE HOSPITAL
WHEN WHAI HAPP WALKED AROUND GUESS VESEY STREET OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT
THAT WAS THE ONLY STREET SIGN THAT WE COULD SEE
DONT KNOW HOW FAR THAT WAS FROM THE WORLD TRADE
CENTER STILL TO THIS DAY BUT WE WALKED AROUND THE CORNER AND COULD SEE THE FIRST BUILDING THAT FELL AND THEY WERE TELLING ME THIS IS THE BUILDING THAT FELL COUPLE OF FIREFIGHTERS AND THEY SAID HOW THEY LOST THEIR PEOPLE IN THE FIRST BUILDING AND WAS LIKE WELL

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WHAT DID WE JUST RUN FROM GUESS WE WENT ALMOST BACK TO BEEKMAN HALFWAY BACK TO BEEKMAN AND WE MET UP WITH SOME FIREFIGHTERS THERE IM SAYING WE IT WAS ME AND
COUPLE OF FIREMEN THAT MADE IT OUT GUESS
THEY SAID THE SECOND BUILDING CAME DOWN
WAS LIKE OH MY GOD JUST SAW PEOPLE STANDING IN THE LOBBY FIRE ENGINES EVERYBODY WAS PULLING UP STILL AND
SAW BUNCH OF FIREFIGHTERS GOING IN AND AM LIKE
WELL WHY ARE THEY GOING IN WHY WOULD THEY BE GOING
IN THERE YOU KNOW ITS JUST NOT SAFE YOU KNOW CANT
THEY FIGHT THE FIRE FROM ABOVE WHEN GOT THERE AND BOOM IT STARTED FALLING AND WAS LIKE KNOW THEY
DIDNT COME OUT YOU KNOW
ANYWAY START WALKING AROUND TRYING TO FIND ANYBODY THAT LOOKED FAMILIAR BECAUSE YOU COULDNT TELL
FIND WE WERE SAVING PEOPLE PULLING PEOPLE FROM RUBBLE AND THERE WERE PRIVATE AMBULANCES EVERYWHERE THEY
WERE THE ONLY ONES UP FRONT SO AS WE ARE PULLING
PEOPLE OUT OF THE RUBBLE OR WALKING PAST WE ARE JUST THROWING THEM INTO AMBULANCES ON THE FLOOR OF THE
AMBULANCES TWO PEOPLE ON THE STRETCHERS ANYWHERE WE COULD
EJ
WAS FULL SR AND DIISI AS
WHC WAS WHR
IM TRYING TO FIND THE EMS COMMAND OR WHOEVER COULD

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WE PULLED OUT THIS OBESE MAN HE HAD TO BE LIKE FOUR OR FIVE HUNDRED POUNDS AND THATS THE ONLY THING THAT SAVED HIS LIFE THEY PULLED BEAM OFF OF HIM IT TOOK 20 FIREFIGHTERS TO PULL THIS BEAM OFF OF THIS GUY WE THREW HIM ON THE STRETCHER AND WE HAD TO CARRY THE STRETCHER EVERYWHERE BECAUSE THE DEBRIS WAS SO MUCH YOU KNOW IT WAS JUST HORRIBLE
AFTER SEVERAL HOURS OF SAVING PEOPLE AND
PULLING PEOPLE FROM THE DEBRIS AND STILL WALKING EVERY TIME TRIED TO LEAVE TO FIND EMS THEY NEEDED MORE
HELP SO COULDNT JUST LEAVE YOU KNOW WHAT MEAN JUST KEPT DOING WHAT WAS DOING
GUESS IT WAS ABOUT HOURS LATER MAYBE ABOUT ONE OCLOCK FINALLY WALKED BACK AND THEY TOLD
ME SEVERAL BLOCKS BACK THERE ARE SOME EMS PEOPLE
MAYBE IH AR YCRNIR BC 1HA1 YCRNI AR LC FC THESE ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT PEOPLE NOW LIKE MET OF COURSE SEVERAL FIREFIGHTERS AND OKAY
IM SPAZ SINCE THEN TOO HEAR NOISE YOU KNOW HOLY SHIT
WELL ANYWAY ENDED UP THERE WERE FIRE
ENGINES SET UP WITH THOSE SPOUTS OF WATER LITTLE EYE WASH SPOUTS OF WATER OFF THE SIDE OF THE TRUCKS AND
IM WASHING MY FACE AND MY EYES ARE BURNING AND CANT

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BREATHE GOOD AND IM FULL OF SOOT SOME FIREFIGHTER BLEW ME OFF WITH COMPRESSOR SO THAT COULD ACTUALLY
SEE AND WASH MY FACE
FINALLY RAN INTO SOME ACADEMY PEOPLE IT
WAS GIO
PINEDA
YES PINEDA ROLANDO ROLANDO HIM AND IT WAS ALL
WERE ABOUT OF THEM ROLANDO GARDON
HE WAS THE INSTRUCTOR
LAST NAME WELL HE WAS PARAMEDIC INSTRUCTOR
BIG ASIAN GUY
YES WITH GLASSES HE LOOKS HAWAIIAN YES
SO ANYWAY RAN INTO THEM AND TOLD THEM WHAT HAPP THEY AR LIKE CLAY JIISI HANG CMIII DCM
YOU NEED ANY HELP IM LIKE JUST REALLY NEED TO SIT DOWN AND GET SOME WATER THEY GOT ME WATER AND WE WERE
JUST WAITING IM LIKE YOU GUYS GOT TO GO IN YOU KNOW THERES PEOPLE IN THERE THAT NEED HELP AND YOU
ARE JUST STANDING HERE AND THERE IS PRIVATE AMBULANCES IN THERE THAT JUST CANT HANDLE IT
THEY DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO THERE IS NO SUPERVISION EVERYBODY WAS KILLED THAT WAS
PARAMEDIC EMS PARAMEDICS
THERE
DONT REMEMBER HIS

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SUPERVISING OR AT LEAST KNEW WHAT TO DO YOU NEED TO GO IN THERE THEY ARE LIKE WE CANT GO IN THERE THEY
WERE JUST STANDING THERE YOU HAVE TO STAY RIGHT
HERE WHAT IM LIKE WHAT DO YOU MEAN GO COUPLE OF BLOCKS IN THEY NEED HELP THEY NEED AMBULANCES
IM TELLING YOU THERE IS PEOPLE LAID OUT IN THE STREET THAT NEED TO GET THE HELL OFF AND THEY CANT MOVE THEIR LEGS ARE BROKEN THEIR ARMS ARE BROKEN THEY
CANT MOVE THEY ARE TRAPPED THEY ARE PINNED AND THESE PEOPLE WILL BE SALVAGEABLE LETS GO
OH WE CANT DO THAT IM LIKE OKAY SO IM GOING BACK IF YOU DONT WANT TO WILL JUST GIVE
ME SOME SHIT GIVE ME SOME OXYGEN AND SOME EQUIPMENT WILL GO BACK IN DONT CARE YOU KNOW THEY WERE
LIKE YOU CANT DO THAT YOU HAVE TO STAY HERE OR YOU AR GCTUM DIIIY IM LIKE
DUTY JUST FUCKING WORKED HOURS BY MY GOD DAMN SELF IF YOU RELIEVE ME NOW DONT GIVE SHIT YOU KNOW WHAT MEAN WILL GO BACK IN ON MY OWN
DONT CARE WORKED WITHOUT ANY EQUIPMENT HAD NO EQUIPMENT ON ME NO HELMET NO NOTHING CAME FROM HOME TO COME HERE
AFTER ABOUT AN HOUR AND HALF OF SITTING THERE LIKE ASSHOLES WE FINALLY GOT THE WORD THAT WE

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COULD GO UP CLOSER WHICH IS GROUND ZERO NOW AND THE
TRIAGE AREA SET THAT TRIAGE AREA UP WE HAD THE MORGUE INSIDE THE BUILDING SET ALL THAT UP THE
FIRST DAY THEY ARE STILL UTILIZING IT TODAY
IT WAS JUST WILD YOU KNOW IT WAS JUST
WILD ALL THE BODIES AND PEOPLE IT WAS REALLY
MEAN DO WANT TO ADD ANYTHING PROBABLY NOT BUT COULD CHAT FOR DAYS ABOUT THIS SHIT IT WAS SO
DISORGANIZED AND THERE WAS NO HELP YOU KNOW WAS THERE UNTIL ONE OCLOCK UNTIL THE MORNING WITH NOT
SIGN OF RELIEF IN SIGHT
COME BACK HERE FINALLY LEFT ON MY OWN
TOLD THEM LOOK CANT STAY HERE ANY MORE NEED
TO LEAVE WORKED 10 TO HOME WALKED MY SON TOOK
WCALL DAY AND ALL NIGHI
IN THE MORNING COULDNT WORK ANY MORE YOU KNOW
WAS ON THE MY FEET THE WHOLE TIME MY HEEL IS KILLING ME SINCE THEN DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO MY HEEL
BUT FINALLY LEFT AND THEY WOULDNT EVEN GIVE ME RIDE TO BEEKMAN HOSPITAL
HAD TO WALK FROM GROUND ZERO TO BEEKMAN HOSPITAL TO MY CAR AND DIDNT EVEN KNOW WHICH WAY TO GO WHERE TO GO WHO TO SEE YOU KNOW IM ASKING ALL
THE NIGHT BEFORE WENT SHOWER CAME BACK AND
AGAIN 11 WAS RRLC
10

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THESE CAPTAIN AND CHIEFS WHO ARE STANDING THERE HOT SHIT TRYING TO LOOK CUTE HOW DO GET BACK TO BEEKMAN
HOSPITAL CAN YOU GET ME GATOR OR ANYTHING DONT CARE WHAT CRANE ANYTHING JUST BRING ME TO
BEEKMAN IM EXHAUSTED NO YOU HAVE TO FIND YOUR
IM LIKE OKAY
SO WALKED ALL THE WAY BACK TO BEEKMAN AND
GOT IN MY CAR AND HAD TO DUST IT OFF BECAUSE THERE IS LIKE FOOT OF DEBRIS ON IT CAME BACK HERE
BECAUSE COULDNT GO HOME LIKE THAT WAS SO FILTHY AND DISGUSTING HAD TO SHOWER BEFORE WENT HOME IN CASE WAS EXPOSED TO SOMETHING
GOT BACK HERE AND EVERYBODY WAS SITTING HERE 50 PEOPLE IN THERE IM LIKE WHAT THE HELL ARE
YOU ALL SITTING IN THERE FOR OH WELL WE ARE WAITING TUM GR TUM RC IM LIKE WHAI WHAI AR YCRNI
WAY
FOR WELL THERE IS BUS OUTSIDE ITS
WAITING
EMPTY CITY BUS SITTING OUTSIDE EMPTY WAITING TO LEAVE WITH PEOPLE WITH THEIR EQUIPMENT AND THEY ARE ON OVERTIME SITTING HERE WATCHING FUCKING TV WHEN JUST WORKED DAMN NEAR 24 HOURS STRAIGHT AND IM SO TIRED AND SO SICK AND SO EXHAUSTED AND THERE IS MORE PEOPLE THAT NEED HELP WITH NO RELIEF IN THERE AND THEY ARE SITTING HERE
11

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SO ASKED THE BOSS DO YOU KNOW WHATS GOING ON WHY ARENT THEY GOING YOU KNOW OH WELL WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO WHAT AGAIN STUPIDITY WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO WHAT ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO DO THERE JUST SIT THERE AND JUST KEEP WORKING WITHOUT RELIEF AND THEY ARE LIKE WELL THATS WHAT WE WERE TOLD
THEY ARE PISSED OFF AND THEY ARE ALL ASKING ME WHAT HAPPENED AND MY SIDE AND IM LIKE YOU KNOW
NEED SOME FOOD SO JOE MICHEL WENT TO MCDONALDS AND
GOT ME COUPLE OF BIG MACS PUT MY FEET UP AND
GOT MASSAGE ATE BIG MAC AND TOLD EVERYBODY HOW IT WAS THERE AND THEY WERE LIKE WOW THINK WAS
THE ONLY PERSON THAT WENT MAYBE GREENBERG WENT LATER KNOW HE WASNT THERE IN THE BEGINNING
DIDN1 HIM A1 ALL IH AND SAW EMT AND EMS PERSON THAT WAS THERE THAT DAY DIDNT SEE HIM
WHERE THE HELL KNOW
THAT
HE COULD HAVE BEEN DONT KNOW YOU
WAS FUCKING EXPERIENCE FUCKING
HOPE THEY LIKE
EXPERIENCE SO TO THIS DAY IM SPAZ HEAR NOISE IM LIKE OKAY WHERE IS IT COMING FROM YOU KNOW THERE WAS THUNDER WILL NEVER FORGET WAS HOME
MY LANGUAGE IT WAS DEFINITELY AN
12

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GUESS THE WEEK AFTER THAT AND THUNDER THERE WAS THIS HORRIBLE STORM THAT CAME THROUGH AND IM AT HOME AND
IM FINALLY IN MY BED AND IM LIKE OKAY CANT SLEEP EVERYBODY IS KNOCKED OUT AND ALL OF SUDDEN THIS BIG KABOOM WAS IN MY BEDROOM AND HAVE RANCH LONG RANCH MY ROOM IS HERE MY DAUGHTERS IS HERE AND MY SONS IS HERE AND MY SON WAS SLEEPING WITH MY DAUGHTER THAT NIGHT
GOT OUT OF THE BED THAT BOOM RAN AND SCOOPED THE TWO KIDS UP AND JUMPED ON TOP OF THEM
THEY ARE LIKE AH WHATS THE MATTER IM LIKE WHAT WAS THAT MY HUSBAND IS LIKE HOLY SHIT YOU NEED TO SEE SOMEBODY ABOUT THAT IM LIKE IM OKAY IF THEY ARE OKAY IM OKAY IM LIKE SPAZ YOU KNOW JUST SCOOPED THEM UP AND IM LAYING ON THEM THEY ARE RRYING WHAI WHAI MY DAIIGHT IS LIKE MY SCM IS LIKE OH IM LIKE SHH SHH SHH SHH IT WAS HORRIBLE
AND STILL DO THAT YOU KNOW THEY ARE
DEMOLISHING BUILDINGS OVER BY WHERE LIVE TO BUILD NEW MALL IM LIKE WHAT WAS THAT YOU KNOW LIKE COMMANDO ON THE FLOOR COME ON BABY LETS GO YOU KNOW ITS WILD
13

14
WE THOUGHT
DONT KNOW
YOU KNOW BUT DONT REALLY HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO SAY GUESS IM DONE
DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD TO THIS INTERVIEW
NO
MR ECCLESTON THIS INTERVIEW IS BEING RNNRLIID A1 221FL HC
JACOBS
WHO
DONT EVEN KNOW
IT WAS INAUDIBLE
AT WORK YOU MEAN
YES AT WORK INAUDIBLE
DONT KNOW ITS JUST WEIRD
File No. 9110174
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
             EMT TRINH DINH
   Interview Date:  October 31, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
T. DINH
2
          MR. DUN:  Today is October 31, 2001.  The
     time is 705 hours.  My name is Richard Dun of the
     New York City Fire Department, working with Marisa
     Abbriano, also with the New York City Fire
     Department.
     Q.   We are conducting an interview with?
     A.   Trinh Dinh.
     Q.   Battalion 44, and what is your shield and
your --
     A.   My shield is 5423.
     Q.   Could you please state in your own words what
happened on September 11, 2001 of this year?
     A.   Okay.  I start my shift at 8 a.m. in the
morning.  That day I was working with a different
partner, who has been on the job for 11, 12 years.  We
had our first job somewhere in north Brooklyn.
     Q.   Who was your partner's name?
     A.   Ronald Coyne.  I don't know if he shows up on
your list.  We were on our way to the hospital with our
patient when his cellphone rang and it was his wife
telling him that she saw two planes crash into the
World Trade Center on TV.
          As soon as we got to the hospital, my partner
said he was going to call Brooklyn central to see if
T. DINH
3
they needed to send us down to Manhattan.  As I just
got taken care of the patient as fast as I could so
that if we were sent, that we could just leave.
          I took care of the patient.  He came back and
told me that Brooklyn central definitely said yes, to
head down to Manhattan.  They specifically told us to
arrive at Church and Vesey.  So my partner was
driving.  We just -- I believe we took the Brooklyn
Manhattan Bridge.
     Q.   There is a Brooklyn Bridge or Manhattan
Bridge.
     A.   The Brooklyn Bridge.  Yes, I believe that's
the route we took, but we pretty much got down there in
probably less than 10 minutes.  On the way up there we
saw the two towers in flames.  They hadn't collapsed at
the time.  They were still in flames, the top one third
of them.  Just a lot of commotion.  A lot of cops in
the streets directing traffic.  I don't think we ever
made it to Church and Vesey.
          Somehow we made it probably right before the
second tower collapse, I see at 9:55, the first tower,
excuse me, the first tower, at 9:55, we went up to the
West Side Highway to the entrance to the underground of
the parking lot.  As soon as we pulled up there, we
T. DINH
4
just saw this cloud of black smoke coming our way and
we just stopped dead in our tracks to where we were.
We didn't even just drive any closer.  We just stopped
and let the black smoke just come over our vehicle.  We
sat there for maybe like two or three minutes in the
blackness.
     Q.   Was that the first collapse?
     A.   That was the first collapse.  As soon as we
pulled up that's when the black cloud just came over us
so we just stopped.  As it cleared up a little bit, we
started to see people like in the white dust.  They
were just kind of like walking towards the vehicle.  At
that time, we just kind of walked out of the vehicle
and just started telling people to come to the
ambulance and just sit there for a little bit, if you
needed any oxygen.  If you wanted to clean your eyes
out and just -- all of a sudden just all these people
started coming out.  A lot of people.
     Q.   Was there a lot of chaos and mayhem going on
through the streets at this time?
     A.   I wouldn't say mayhem.  I think people were
mostly walking out.  They weren't really running out.
They were just walking towards us.  They were all
covered in white dust.
T. DINH
5
     Q.   Did you see a lot of debris when you were
pulling up to the site?
     A.   Yes.  That's exactly why we just stopped
where we were, because it just came at us so we just
stopped.  There was a doctor in the back of our
vehicle.  We picked him up on the way.
     Q.   Department doctor?
     A.   No, it wasn't a Fire Department doctor.  She
was some kind of, I don't remember what kind of doctor
she was or who she worked for, but she just flagged us
down and asked if she could come with us.  So we let
her in the back of the ambulance so that while me and
my partner got out, she was in the back just kind of
helping the patients.
          We were telling her where all the -- we
stocked everything, all the sterile water, how to use
the oxygen.  We just told her, you know, give whatever
they need and stuff like that.  At that time, me and my
partner were kind of going back and forth from the
vehicle to the building.  My partner was actually
inside the building, I believe, and I was just kind of
going back and forth between him and the vehicle,
because every time I went up there, he would always
tell me go back to the vehicle, get me more oxygen.  Go
T. DINH
6
back and get me more of this, get me more of that, more
of that.  So I was kind of running back and forth.
          I guess maybe half hour, 45 minutes must have
passed.  I went back to find my partner because he
hadn't come back to the ambulance for a while.  I guess
he just wanted to stay inside the building and help
there and as I was going to the building to find him,
everybody started saying turn around, the second one is
going to fall.  Of course I wasn't paying attention.  I
was just like well, where is my partner, I got to find
my partner, I got to go, you know, find where he is in
the building.
          I just kept going, I just kept going and then
all of a sudden everyone just started running the other
way and I just kept going forward.  Then I saw another
cloud of black smoke coming my way and that's when I
turned around and started running back to my ambulance.
     Q.   Did the cloud catch you?
     A.   Oh, yes, the cloud caught me, but then I went
in the back of my ambulance and we sat there for a few
minutes and it was really thick.  This one somehow was
just thicker than the first one.  This one really made
me choke, even in the back of the ambulance.
          I was back there taking some oxygen with some
T. DINH
7
of the people.  I waited a few minutes for it to clear
a little bit.  Then I walked forward, more towards the
building and I just started asking firemen and people,
you know, did you see my partner and this and that.
You know, nobody was really answering.  They were just
kind of all in their own little -- you know, doing what
they were doing.
     Q.   Did you ever move your ambulance?
     A.   I never moved my ambulance from where we
were, because when we first got there the black cloud
came over us and we just stopped.
     Q.   That was on West Street, like that
underground parking?
     A.   Uh-huh.  So I always wonder, if we had just
shown up a minute earlier, we would have just been
right up there in the front where the other ambulances
were, because when the cloud cleared and I went towards
the front, I saw all the ambulances parked like not
even a hundred feet, maybe closer than we were and they
were all torched and destroyed and nobody was in them
and fire trucks destroyed and I was like oh, my god, we
were just like not that far back and we could have been
this close.
          It was perfect timing for us I guess.  I just
T. DINH
8
kept looking for my partner and in the midst of it,
everyone kept saying, you know, can you help this
fireman, can you help that fireman.  Even though I lost
my partner I guess I just continued to help some of the
firemen that needed it.  You know, I mean, there was
this one fireman who had a fractured femur.  They kept
saying bring your bus over here so you can take him in
the hospital.  I said okay.
          So I went back to get my vehicle and my
vehicle was gone.  My mistake was leaving the vehicle
with the keys in it running.  So I guess --
     Q.   That's not a mistake.
     A.   I mean at that time, I guess -- I mean when I
needed it, I didn't have it.
Q. Yes.
     A.   But I guess someone else just decided to take
it for their use and another EMT probably took it for
their use and took off with it.  So I didn't have an
ambulance for my fireman.  At this time I didn't see
any other EMTs around.  I guess they all just took
whoever and left and I was the only one left.
          Then all of a sudden this volunteer ambulance
came up the ramp and I flagged him down and I asked him
if he could take my patient to the hospital with me, so
T. DINH
9
we took our fireman to Beekman.
     Q.   Do you remember the name of the Firefighter?
     A.   I just remember his first name was Kevin.
That's all I remember.  Then somehow, some medics came
and they came with us too and we took him to Beekman
and as soon as we went to Beekman, I actually ran into
a medic that I know who works right here in Brooklyn
for St. Marys.  I ran into him and I was like, I lost
my partner.  He said yes, I lost my partner too.  He
said let's work together.  He says I have an
ambulance.
          So at that point I wanted to call my
Battalion to tell them that I lost my partner, that I
don't know where he is, that I'm fine, but they said
that none of the phone lines were working because, you
know, no reception, nobody's cell phones was getting
any reception.  My cellphone I left in the ambulance,
okay.  All my equipment was in the ambulance.
Everything that I had.  That's why I don't have any
equipment right now.  So I couldn't make any phone
calls to the Battalion.
          So I just went out with this medic, Roger, he
is English actually.  So we went out to his bus and we
said what do you want to do.  I said let's just drive
T. DINH
10
around and see where we can help, you know.  So we just
drove around and just kept driving and I don't know
exactly where we ended up, but we ended up right there
in the middle of the rubble, where Ground Zero is,
where everybody is working at right now.
          We just ended up there, there was no other
EMTs or medics there at the time.
     Q.   Was the radio working?
     A.   Yes.  You know, I don't even remember because
you just don't even think.  You are just like in there
in the midst of everything and you are just kind of
like continuing to do what you do.  So we just stayed
in the rubble and we tried to set up a triage there
because nobody else was anywhere giving us directions
or telling us where to set up triage because nobody
else was in the middle of the rubble but us.
          So we just left our ambulance there and we
just pretty much just watched until some of the firemen
decided they needed their eyes washed or they needed
oxygen.  They would, you know, take turns coming in,
going into the rubble, cleaning it out and then coming
out and getting their eyes washed and getting oxygen,
getting cuts cleaned up, and then eventually as time
went on, more EMTs and more medics started coming to
T. DINH
11
where we were and then we just started setting triage
there.
          We just laid everything outside around the
ambulances.  Everyone was just working from there.
Then I saw my partner.  This is like three or four
hours later.  We were so happy to see each other.  He
got out okay, which is good.  Then we all just stayed
in that level for a couple of hours, helping pretty
much firemen, you know, just pretty much firemen was
all that we were really helping.
     Q.   So nobody tried using the radios to get
directions?
     A.   Well, I know my partner had lost his radio,
because I believe he was in the building and whatever
happened I'm sure that he lost his radio.  My radio,
the battery, I believe had died.  Because from 8 to 4
o'clock in the afternoon, that's a lot of hours.
Usually you kind of change batteries during the day,
but my battery had died eventually and then eventually
the cell phones started working, so then I started
using other people's cell phones to call home to tell
them that I was okay.
          But I never called the Battalion because at
the time, when everyone started coming to the rubble,
T. DINH
12
they had Lieutenants there who set up a triage center
and they told everyone to sign in with their unit.  So
that's what me and my partner did.  We went to the
Lieutenant, we gave him our name, our shield and bus
number.
     Q.   What unit were you that day?
     A.   My unit is 38 Eddie.  I'm always 38 Eddie.
So we were 38 Eddie that day.  We signed in so we
thought everything was clear.  Everything was good, you
know.  Unfortunately, because I guess of the
catastrophe and just all the chaos, somehow they never
seemed to tell my Battalion that we had signed in, so
by the time I got back at the end of the night,
everyone had thought I had been missing all day.
     Q.   There was a lot of miscommunications.
     A.   A lot of miscommunication.  I mean it upset
me, because if I had known it would have been such bad
miscommunication, I probably would have thought to call
them myself since the cell phones were working.
     Q.   You did the right thing.
     A.   Yes, so we stayed at our station doing what
we did all day long.  After a couple of hours we said
let's just take a break.  We went over to Beekman
Hospital and we just kind of sat outside on the
T. DINH
13
sidewalk for a little bit.  That's when you kind of
start like looking back at everything that happened,
because when you are in the middle of the rubble, you
are kind of just kind of like, you are not even in
shock about everything.
          You don't know what's going on in the outside
of the world.  People are coming back with these
rumors, like oh, my god, they got the Sears tower in
Chicago.  Oh, they got the Pentagon.  Oh, they got the
White House.  Everyone is thinking, you know, all these
crazy attacks and you really don't know the truth
because there is no TV, there is no radios.  You are
just kind of listening to what people are saying and so
you just don't know what else is going on out there.
          You are not really shocked at that point.
Then like when you step back away from the site, Ground
Zero, you just kind of think like oh, my god, did this
really happen, like, look at us, we are like covered in
white dust.  We look like crap, we look like we just
went through a war, you know.
          Then at that point it was like bad timing.
All of these news people and newspaper reporters just
kind of came up to us, I guess because we looked the
dirtiest, you know, because we were the only ones
T. DINH
14
covered in white and they just kind of all just kind of
came to us and just all of them just started
interviewing us, like what happened, were you there,
you know, did anyone live, did you see any of this.
Blah blah blah.
          So we just gave them a little bit of, yes,
this happened, that happened, we were here and we were
there.  This is what we think about it.  You don't
really want to say too much.  You really haven't
collected your thoughts to really give a story or how
you really feel.  You are just kind of like yes, it was
unbelievable.  Yes, so a couple of those reporters came
and started talking to us.
          After a while we went back to the rubble and
at this point there were many EMTs and medics in the
triage station and pretty much nobody was really doing
much, you know.  I mean there really wasn't much to
do.  Like I said, all we were really helping were the
firemen and they were little minor injuries, like
washing out the eyes and stuff like that, so I mean,
there really wasn't much to do, so by the end of the
day, say around 9, 10 o'clock, we just looked at each
other and said we are tired, there is not much we can
do.  There is no one here we can really really help.
T. DINH
15
          So we just decided to head back and my
partner and I, my original partner and I, said to the
medic that was working with us all day, could you drive
us around and help us look for our ambulance.  At this
point we had no way to get back to Brooklyn.
          So we just drove around the hospitals and
streets and miraculously we found our ambulance in
front of the Staten Island Ferry terminal.  I don't
know.  They had used it for equipment, water, soda, I
guess, like, you know, refreshments, just drive back
and forth to people and it was destroyed pretty much.
          It was covered in white dust.  All my
equipment was gone and the battery had died, so the bus
didn't start anyway.  We couldn't get it started so we
just asked the medic to drive us halfway to Brooklyn.
He lived in Manhattan, borderline Brooklyn and so he
drove to us his place and we called our station at that
point to say can you get somebody to come pick us up at
his house.
          They sent, you know, a Lieutenant to come
down and pick us up by car.  They took us back to
Battalion 58.  I met my Captain and all the other
Lieutenants.
     Q.   By Woodhull?
T. DINH
16
     A.   No, it wasn't the hospital, Woodhull.  It was
another station here in Brooklyn.  It was either 57 or
58 where they were all stationed doing whatever they
were doing.  It was probably around 11, 11:30 at this
point and the Captain and some of my Lieutenants were
like, what happened.  We thought you were missing, you
are on the missing list.  We didn't hear from you all
day.
          The Captain said, but then I saw you on TV so
I knew you were alive.  I go okay.  They made us go to
the hospital to get checked out, to Kings County.  I
had my eyes irrigated for like half an hour.  My
partner had really bad asthma so he was admitted
overnight.
          You know, basically that was it.  I was just
really tired.  I just wanted to go home.  I don't think
I got home until like 2:00 in the morning.  It was just
a really tiring, really tiring.  That was basically all
we did all day.  The excitement was obviously in the
morning, but after that all happened, it really wasn't
much more we could do.  We just pretty much hung around
and did little things.
          I mean during the course of the day, we
started going to pharmacies and they were giving us
T. DINH
17
medication for free, so we kept bringing back eye drops
and you know, Excedrins and Advils and burn cremes, and
little medications like that that they were giving for
free, so we just kept stocking up on it and just kept
bringing those back.
          Then you had some volunteer, I guess they
were just normal pedestrians who were coming back and
forth giving us bottled water and whatever, Gatorade or
little candies, stuff like that, but by the end of the
day, you had trucks of Poland Spring pulling up and all
these other foods and, you know, the Coast Guard
bringing up food by the water.
          At that point at the end of the day,
everybody was getting stocked with supplies by each
company.  So that was nice.  That was it.  That was
just a really long day.  Really long day.  I mean I
just slept all day the next day.  All day.
          MR. DUN:  This ends the interview.  The time
     is 723.
File No. 9110175
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         LIEUTENANT JOHN MENDEZ
   Interview Date:  October 31, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
J. MENDEZ 2
          MR. CASTORINA:  Today is October 31st,
     2001.  The time now is 1012 hours.  My name
     is Ron Castorina from the New York City Fire
     Department, conducting an interview with
     John Mendez, Lieutenant Mendez.  With me is
     Thomas McCourt.
          MR. McCOURT:  Tom McCourt,
     investigations and trials.
     Q.   Sir, can you please for the record
state your name, rank, title and your work
assignment?
     A.   Lieutenant John Mendez, Bureau of
Health Services, Immunization unit.
     Q.   Lieutenant Mendez, on September 11,
2001, can you tell me the events that took place
on that particular day.
     A.   Around a quarter to 9, maybe 8:30-ish,
I went up to the seventh floor to get milk for
the commissary on the second floor.  When I got
up there, Chief Ganci came running out of his
office saying that a plane had hit the building.
He told everybody look out the window.
          So I went to the window on the seventh
floor, and I observed the Trade Center on fire.
J. MENDEZ 3
I stood there for a while, and there was a lot of
people at the window, firefighters, civilians,
chiefs.  The next thing you know, we saw another
plane hit the building.  A ball of flame came
out, and actually the concussion shook our
building.  We felt the concussion from it.
          At that point I came back down to the
second floor to see what was going on with the
staff down here on the second floor.  Most of the
people had already gone over to the site.
     Q.   "Down here" being?
     A.   On the second floor.
     Q.   Where?
     A.   The whole floor.
     Q.   At Nine Metrotech?
     A.   Nine Metrotech, yes.
          I wanted to go over there, but I wanted
to make sure everything was okay on the second
floor.  I checked in with Mary T. McLaughlin to
tell her I was going over there, and I hooked up
with Dr. Ortiz.  She's the medical doctor that
was assigned to the floor for the day, and Jerry
Finnegan is her driver.
     Q.   Jerry Finnegan is a firefighter?
J. MENDEZ 4
     A.   Is a firefighter here.  He's a
light-duty firefighter assigned to her.
          So the three of us, along with Charlie
Dalton, another firefighter from the sixth floor,
took some equipment and got in the medical car
and started driving towards Manhattan.
          It felt like we left right away, but
evidently we didn't, because as we drove over the
Brooklyn Bridge we actually picked up a
probationary firefighter with his gear walking
over the bridge.  He got in the car.  So now the
car had five people in it.
          When we got down on the other side of
the Brooklyn Bridge in Manhattan, the building
had collapsed, although we don't realize the
building had collapsed, because there was just so
much smoke we couldn't see anything.  We didn't
know what it was.
          I thought I had left Metrotech maybe
15, 20 minutes after the planes crashed.
Evidently it must have been an hour, because the
building collapsed an hour later.
          We made our way through the debris or
the dust --
J. MENDEZ 5
     Q.   When you got there, one tower had
collapsed?
     A.   One tower had collapsed, the first
tower.
     Q.   The second tower hadn't collapsed yet?
     A.   No.  We were going towards Broadway,
heading past City Hall towards Broadway.  It just
took us a long time to get there because the
visibility was bad.  We were going to head down
Vesey towards the command post.  We knew there
was a command post somewhere towards West and
Vesey, in that area.  So that's where we were
going to head.
          I was in the back seat, and I saw
Lieutenant Swithers.  That was around Fulton and
Broadway.  So we were going to head up Vesey
towards the command post.  When I saw Jay, we
made a left near him.  He was covered in ash and
dust.  He looked to me like he was disoriented.
So we stopped to help him out, because he works
with us on the floor.
     Q.   This is the EMS lieutenant?
     A.   EMS, yes, captain.
     Q.   Captain?
J. MENDEZ 6
     A.   Captain.  He just got promoted at that
time.
          He told us that the building collapsed.
He thought that the building collapsed and that a
lot of people were injured or dead.  He was
trying to reorganize.
          So at that point we made a left.  We
told him to hang out, we're going to make a left,
park the car.  We made a left away from the Trade
Center down Fulton street.  We parked right on
the corner.
          We got out of the vehicle, we got our
equipment, we walked to the back of the vehicle,
the smoke was clearing.  We could see one of the
buildings was down and the other one was still
standing.  But then all of a sudden that building
started to collapse.
          We just walked back into the car or
ran --
     Q.   How far were you from the building?
     A.   We were one block away, according to
this map.
     Q.   You were on Fulton?
     A.   I was on Fulton and Broadway, Fulton
J. MENDEZ 7
Street and Broadway.
     Q.   When it started collapsing?
     A.   Yes.
          So we got into the car, started it up,
and this huge wave of debris caught up to us as
we were driving away, and everything went black.
We actually stopped the car.  People were running
by us at that moment.  They disappeared.  We
didn't know what happened.
          It cleared a little bit.  The driver
just kept driving straight, very slow.
Eventually we ended up stopping at the South
Street Seaport.  That's where we ended up, on the
sidewalk there.
          We got out of the car, and we just hung
out and hugged each other.  Incredibly the other
medical car -- we're in 33.  32 came from the
west side when the building collapsed.  They
actually almost crashed into us.
     Q.   They came to the same spot?
     A.   Same spot.  It was like a miracle.
     Q.   Who was in that car?
     A.   Dr. Garvey and Firefighter Velker.  He
was a light-duty fireman, Pete Velker.
J. MENDEZ 8
          We stayed there for a long time,
because there was really no visibility and we
didn't know what to do.
     Q.   Were there any radio communications?
     A.   No, not really.  The radio was on, but
really we were all shaken up.  A guy told us the
phone was working, so we decided to call our
families and let them know we were alive, because
we knew a lot of people were dead.  That's the
first thing we did.
          We got back in the car, and we drove as
close as we could to the Trade Center, probably
back to the same location on Fulton Street, and
parked it there.  We parked away from the
building so we could get access to the car and
drive it out.
     Q.   Your visibility was bad at this time?
     A.   Yes.  It looked like a giant snowstorm.
There were all particles in the air and there
were six inches of dust on the ground, and there
were millions of pieces of paper blowing about.
Buildings were on fire everywhere in the Trade
Center complex.
          Then we met Dr. Kelly and Dr. Prezant.
J. MENDEZ 9
They were wandering down the street.  There was a
Duane Reade drugstore on the corner of Barclay
and Broadway, and we cut it open.  The firemen
cut it open, and they made it into like a
medical -- actually it was the Woolworth
Building.  It was a Duane Reade next to the
Woolworth Building.
          We cut the Duane Reade open to get
supplies, and we set up a surgical area because
there were doctors that were coming to the scene
and they were going to do operations right there
like a MASH tent.  The only problem was over the
next 12 hours they didn't get one patient because
there was no one left.
          From that point, after helping them set
up -- I don't know how long that took -- me and
Firefighter Finnegan, we just sort of toured the
site to try to help out.  We walked around the
whole World Trade Center complex several times in
15 hours.
          The only body I saw was Chief Ganci.
We ended up in the back of the atrium as they
were pulling his body out.  A fireman was
carrying his remains down the stairs, his head,
J. MENDEZ 10
and the other firefighters were carrying the rest
of his body in a basket.  Chief Turi was there.
We start crying.  They placed his body on the
ground, and we all kneeled around it and prayed.
They took his body to an ambulance and they took
it away.
          At that point all the other chiefs
converged at Vesey and West, Chief Turi, Chief
Nigro, Chief Callan, I think Chief Fellini, and
they sort of organized how they were going to
fight the fires and organize the men who were
left.
          I didn't stay there.  I just went back.
I kept checking in with Dr. Kelly.  Then I would
walk around again and kept checking in with her,
making sure everything was okay.
          Eventually later in the day we had to
evacuate that site because number seven
collapsed.  Prior to its collapse, we evacuated
all the supplies, the doctors, and moved over to
Pace University into the lobby, and they set up
another medical area.  Most injuries we treated
were eye injuries from the debris, basically
cleaning out people's eyes.
J. MENDEZ 11
          From there it was nightfall, 8, 9,
10:00.  I don't know what time it was.
Eventually I escorted Dr. Kelly and Prezant back
to the medical office, and we stayed there all
night.
          That's it.
     Q.   Anything else you can think of or want
to add?
     A.   I can't think of anything.
     Q.   Okay.
          MR. CASTORINA:  The time now is 10:25.
     This concludes the interview with Lieutenant
     Mendez.
          Thank you, Lieutenant Mendez.
File No. 9110176
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
            EMT EMILIO PEREZ
   Interview Date:  October 31, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
E. PEREZ
2
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today is October 31, 2001.
     The time is now 0603 hours.  I'm Paul Radenberg of
     the Fire Department of the City of New York.
     Q.   Conducting an interview with?
     A.   Emilio Perez, Battalion 14, shield number
3132.
     Q.   Okay.  Mr. Perez is an EMT.  We are currently
at EMS Battalion 14.  This interview is being conducted
regarding the events of September 11, 2001.  Okay,
Emilio, if you begin with when you were assigned to the
job?
     A.   Okay.  The morning of September 11 we were at
a restaurant called Sunlight located at 149 Street and
Walton Avenue.  We were ordering breakfast.  At about
9:35, about 9.  It was 9, about 9:10 when the first
tower was struck.  We realized it on the television as
posted.  We noticed that everyone was watching.  At
9:10 the plane flew in through the second tower.  We
were assigned to the assignment from that time on, from
9:10 on.
          We responded to the incident via Central
Parkway, down Broadway, came across Houston Street,
turned left on Greenwich and started approaching the
scene.  When we approached, we could see the towers in
E. PEREZ
3
flames.  We got closer, we made a right turn on Barclay
Street.  Parked on West Street off of Barclay at about
9:35.
          One of the officers told us to approach the
scene, park the vehicle and just set up.  My immediate
supervisors requested to find out where the triage site
was located and I mentioned to him where it was located
but he told me to respond to it and I refused to.  I
set up triage at that area where (inaudible) should
be.
          We started unloading the equipment to set up
for the incident and I think it was about 5 minutes
after we set up the equipment, we started approaching
to try to assist those injured, we saw the building
collapse.  Plenty of firefighters reported in.  We were
following them and as a cloud of soot and smoke started
approaching us, we turned around, abandoned the
equipment and started running.  We ran for our lives,
as far as we could.  We kept looking back, looking
back.
          We noticed that the cloud was so thick and
deep that we were overcome by it, so we started to turn
around, walking back to try to help people, but there
was so many people to help, so many firefighters.  They
4
firefighters and that's all I could see.  They all
wanted to find out where all the men were.  So our
initial response there was to treat all of them that
were injured, coming towards us.  Their eyes were
burning, they couldn't breathe.  So we were using
saline, we were using the little bit of equipment we
had.  Saline, we were dousing them.  We were able to
open up the back of the vehicle to try to get more
access to equipment, but we were overcome.
          We realized that -- I realized there wasn't
going to be enough water to help the firefighters for
cleaning the soot and debris from them.  What I did was
I approached one of the fire Lieutenants and started
screaming to him, I need a wrench, I need a wrench.
          The men were going right back in.  So he
stopped them and like two of them just dropped.  Got me
the wrench.  I started opening up as many hydrants as I
could in that area.  I opened up like a good, a good 11
hydrants.
          Then I was directing all the firefighters to
go on into the areas where I was telling them to go
douse down, this and that, but they were concerned for
E. PEREZ
were full of soot.
          Initially in our area was plenty of
E. PEREZ
5
the firefighters, so I says to them, listen, all your
friends are all over there.  All your men are right
there by the hydrant.  Just go over there.  You will
find them.  Just by me directing them in that direction
and being -- using the tone of voice that I did, it
helped them because they approached -- but they didn't
find the men they were looking for, they were being
taken care of.
          The FBI was there.  The CIA was there.  Guys
with suits there.  They were telling me who they were
and I was directing and grabbing them and all I could
do was just grab them and direct them to water.  So
then after I realized that, we just kept helping, kept
helping, kept helping, we tried to make another
approach to go back to assist those that were
underneath the collapse.
          So when we tried to make that second approach
is when the second tower came at you.  The Engine
Company that had gone into the right side was just
wiped out.  As the second one collapsed, we just
started to turn around again.  It was here we go again,
start running.  This time we were engulfed with the
stuff.  People were behind us.  We started running as
far as we can again.  Now we couldn't see much.  This
E. PEREZ
6
was like about a good, a few minutes after the first
building had collapsed.
          There is a whole lot of things were going on,
you know, people were running out of there.  There was
firefighters with police officers and firefighters just
trying to set up.  Some of them, it just overcome.  As
these guys got cleaned up and they were ready to walk
right back in.  They were like let's go.  Some were in
groups ready to go in and once that second building
collapsed, and then people started running, more
firefighters were coming out filled with the soot.
People were running, so this time we started running so
far that the cloud was still following us, you know.
          There was a building over there.  I think it
was the school.  I think it was Stuyvesant.  They said
run inside, run inside.  So the clouds kept coming
closer, we just kept -- I stopped, my partner stopped,
we just kept directing people into the building.  I
think to Stuyvesant Street, Stuyvesant High School.
          So I remember the last person I ran into was
an oriental.  I told my partner at the time, go ahead,
check inside, see how many people in there.  He told me
there is thousands of people inside the school.  I
stayed outside.  I kept running back trying to help
E. PEREZ
7
more firefighters, I felt like hours -- there was no
help for them back there.  So I just kept grabbing them
and directing them to all the hydrants, kept washing
them down, you know.
          Then about a good 10 minutes or 15 minutes
after the whole incident, my partner came out of the
building.  I didn't know where he was at.  I started
going back to the ambulance to see if he had moved it.
After the first collapse I went back to move the
ambulance to a safer location, brought it back a little
further, when I realized that I found him and I tried
to make an approach.
          Then again, this is like about the fourth
time after carrying everything.  I grabbed an O2 tank.
I told him grab a tank.  We put masks, we took the
non-rebreather masks that we keep as equipment.  I
threw an O2 tank on my shoulder.  We took the
stretcher, full of soot and all that.  We was trying to
make an approach toward the building.
          I was overcome because I knew that alot of
firefighters were caught under there.  I didn't want to
say they were dead because I had hopes for them.  I
didn't want to just count them out just like that.  So
we started walking in.  There was a fire Captain, he
E. PEREZ
8
stopped us in our tracks, got a few feet going north
towards the towers.
          He says where are you going with that
stretcher?  I says we are trying to help.  He says you
can't help anybody down there.  He said don't go in
there.  He turned us around.  That's when we just
abandoned everything, you know, hell with it all.
          I was so full of soot.  I was trying to wash
up and everything.  Then I had it in me to return back
and the ambulance was like -- it was just -- if you
could see the amount of debris that was on the
ambulance.  I'm surprised I drove the vehicle, I just
--thatIhaditinmetogetoutofthere. ThenI get the keys and moved it back a little. As I parked the vehicle after we moved it again. Three or four times we moved the vehicle.
          We went to one of the immediate supervisors
that worked there, just saying what are we going to
do.  He says oh, well, just stay there.  At that time
someone came running out of left field.  I don't know
who the hell it was.  Must have been a police officer.
He said there was a gas leak.  He said there was a gas
leak.  Man, there was like about three or four police
cars that just took off.  One took out a private
E. PEREZ
9
ambulance's door.  The other ones just was diving into
the car and going.
          I find that at this time, you know, there was
all -- there was too much chaos going and the only
thing I could think of was to board the vehicle, but at
all times I was monitoring the radio.  We weren't able
to transmit at all.  The only transmission I made was
when I requested additional units, because we had
plenty of firefighters that were injured.  I think I
was the only one that made the call.  Might hear it on
the tapes, might hear it on the radio, when you listen
to 14 David, was the unit.
          I requested additional resources, because we
had many firefighters that were injured at that site.
I was calling from Barclay and West.  That was the only
transmission I made.  We really weren't supposed to
make any transmissions, so I made the transmissions and
then after that it was all silence.  You didn't hear
nothing.
          Then after this guy comes screaming about gas
leak, I jumped on the vehicle, all sooted and
everything, we just started driving up Broadway.  We
drove up Broadway, we stopped.  My partner was too --
you know, he was worried, he wanted to contact his
E. PEREZ
10
family.  I just continued driving.  You could just see
the smoke and the soot just flying off the ambulance.
I'm surprised it drove.  Parked.  Here were people
trying to take the stuff from the ambulance, can we
take stuff from it.  They were collecting from it,
grabbing cups, you know.  We stopped at a store to get
some water.
          We stopped at a store that was -- some gas
station over on Broadway.  I walked in to try to get
some water.  You know, and what really hit me was that,
you know, you would think that after the ordeal,
somebody would just say here, take the water, go
ahead.  No, I paid for the water, you know.  I don't
want to mention of what nationality I purchased this
water from.  So I continued from there on.
          We had heard over the air, they said respond
to Chelsea Piers.  From there on you would get further
info.  We drove up there, there was a good hundred
ambulances.  We were at the tail end.  I got out of the
vehicle and started walking around.  I was in a
trance.  I was, you know, nobody asked me anything.
          People could look at me I guess and say you
know I guess I was in hope.  I have pictures there of
how I looked when I returned here.  So then I
E. PEREZ
11
approached -- we were there for hours.  The ambulance
 -- you could see the ambulance.  We were still
collecting soot from the top of the ambulance while we
were parked by Chelsea Piers.  People were putting
stuff in their pockets and walking away.
          I had fellow co-workers that they wanted a
piece of the World Trade Center as a remembrance.  So I
said, to hell with it.  We waited, we waited for
hours.  Then I approached one of the supervisors and he
said, it's impossible to be relieved from the scene so
(inaudible).  They disregarded our request.  Within the
lines, the front lines they started moving units, so
when we approached our turn, I spoke to Lieutenant
Nevins.  I said can you release us from the scene?  No,
join the party.  Just park over there.
          I didn't get that.  People make remarks, but
for me it wasn't that kind of remark to be made.  After
what I went through, I didn't want to hear something
like that.  I wanted to hear you know, man, thank god
you made it or something to the fact that what
happened, just somebody to listen, say let me tell you
my part of the story.
          Okay.  You can return back to your Borough.
I took the ambulance right from Chelsea Piers, drove up
E. PEREZ
12
the West Side Highway with all the soot spraying
everywhere.  I told my partner, Maximo, you going to do
this?  Everybody was going, you don't know what's in
this stuff.
          You know what, if I stayed there, if I did
not made the approaches I did, I would have been
looking, considered missing.  I could have left the
vehicle stranded.  I could have abandoned everything,
but there was something in me that just drove me to
come back here.  They always say, I remember when I was
growing up, you get in trouble, you always run home.
          So my first thing was to come right back
home.  I brought the ambulance back, drove back to
here.  When I got off here and they said, oh, you was
down there.  People were very fascinated by the ordeal
and knowing that I returned back with the vehicle.
          Then I was here for hours, you know.  I
didn't know how to take my uniform off.  I showered
here and I had worked overtime that day too.  It was an
overtime shift, thinking I was going to be in the
slowest unit that morning and it just so happened it
was that call.  Then when I ended up, when the whole
situation happened, then I come back and recollect, you
know, for a few extra dollars I could have lost my
life.
E. PEREZ
13
          You know, when you start analyzing things you
see it differently, but in the heat of everything, I
never had such an ambulance ride in years, because I
work midnight shifts now.  Driving down there through
Broadway, and hearing all these emergency vehicles, you
know, I realized that my skills are there, I mean, but
I have to pull them out the pocket.  The way I drove
down there through cars, through cabs and through
people.  As you see the people on Broadway, how they
were approaching, get out of the way.
          You could see something major had happened,
because the people in the streets were just like
clearing the way, go ahead, you know.  Something that
no matter how many times you speak about it, it's
always something that comes back to mention, because
there were so many things that happened in that
incident.  I can recollect more as I continue to go
on.
          Driving to the scene I only wish I had a
camera, because when I parked right in front of it, I
could see the flames and the fire and I realized I was
so close.  That's when I knew that I had to make a
move, being so close, so that's why I made that right
E. PEREZ
14
turn and parked there, Barclay.
          You know, when the supervisor -- I'm not
insubordinate, but when the supervisor told me -- asked
me where was the triage area, I mentioned to him.  I
says Rector and Vesey.  You have to go there.  I said
no, I can't.  I got to set up right here.  Look at
these firemen.  Look at all of them.  There is about a
good hundred of them.
          There is no -- there was somebody standing
back there with cameras and things, walking back and
forth.  There was one guy who followed me throughout
the whole incident, snapping pictures, videotaping,
back pedaling.  Every time I looked he was right
there.  But, you know, these guys are -- I am so into
my job.  My job is not law enforcement, so I just look
to help whoever is coming over.
          So as I was helping the next fireman, this
guy was snapping pictures, so I think for every
firefighter that I think that I was helping, this guy
must have had many photos of me and that's the only
thing that I keep recollecting, that if I can only get
this guy to get me a copy of this picture to see myself
going through this whole deal, because I (inaudible).
          I see the photos of the chaplain when he was
E. PEREZ
15
being carried out and it was similar.  When I look at
that photograph, I did that for a lot of firefighters.
I mean I tried to come back with -- my only concern at
the time too when the first building collapsed, is when
I was really with my partner.
          I held him tight, I ran with him and I told
him -- he kept looking back, and I told him look, just
don't trip.  Told him one time, don't trip.  I was
holding him in the back and as we kept running, I
mentioned that statement.  Had he tripped I know I was
going to leave him.  Because there was concern for my
life.  I was worried about me.
          From then on I just -- what I'm going through
now is being reborn.  I find myself to be more in the
gym.  I'm working a lot.  I'm not normally a work
horse, but I tend to try to ignore it totally.  This
incident with all the anthrax and all that, I don't
even want to hear about that.  It just started then.
After that I returned back the third day.
          I knew -- I had hope, but I sensed that there
was a lot of dead people.  I didn't want to return.
After the third day, then I went down there and I
returned back to Ground Zero to an area called the
hole.  I guess my first approach in realizing what they
E. PEREZ
16
were going through, the rescue phase of it.
          At the time I could see there was just -- I
found out that there was a makeshift morgue and just
being there for the first time and pulling out one
body, I says, you know, I said I seen enough.  At that
time we went out on our own, because we was having
problems with being used properly down in that area, as
EMS employees.
          So we went on our own time and realized that
-- tried to help as volunteers instead of being on a
unit or assigned by staff.  They would allow us to go
down there and do what?  Issue water, set up
flashlights.  Come on.  There were better jobs to do.
We tried to go down to rescue.  We tried to help.  At
the time, I was devastated and I told my two partners,
you know what, let's turn away from here because there
is nothing we can do here.  The greatest feeling of
helplessness was there.  Everything had to be done
because they have to do the rescue and all that, but
personally when I had that feeling of helplessness,
that you can help nobody, the best thing is to
retreat.
          After that third day I didn't want to return
down there.  Not even for all the money they wanted to
E. PEREZ
17
pay me.  They were giving 15 hour shifts.  I didn't
want to go back.
     Q.   After the first collapse, you had your bus
still on Barclay and West.  Do you remember where you
moved it to?
     A.   I moved it back -- I moved it back to around
Murray and West Street.  After we moved it from there,
that's when the second collapse came.  I moved it back
some more.  After the second collapse we ran.  As we
were running in the second collapse, that's when I
started directing people into Stuyvesant High School.
Up West.  Up West.
     Q.   Okay.  When you arrived on Barclay Street,
you said that an officer told you to park there.  Was
it an EMS officer, fire officer?
     A.   No, there was a highway police officer.
     Q.   Highway?
     A.   There was a highway police officer.  That guy
was unbelievable, how he handled that situation in that
area.  He alone saved a lot of lives, because the way
he set that spot up.  He was directing people.  He told
me listen, don't park over there, because I parked
there and he said move it back.  Give them some space,
give them some space so we can get out, so I backed it
E. PEREZ
18
up.  We parked it, we parked it across, right on
Barclay facing toward the building.  I had to back in
facing towards the building.
          You had to back in facing towards the
building because I wanted the back of the vehicle to be
open in case we had to treat the people and the
equipment was out, so we had the back open.  Back side
facing towards the tower.
     Q.   Do you remember when you first got there
seeing any EMS officers around that --
     A.   The only officer that -- I was happy to see
him, was Lieutenant Albuerme.  He is from Harlem.  Then
he was like over there, I know him for years on the
job, his daughter attended the same school that my
daughter attended.  Holy Cross.  He is the first one I
saw.
     Q.   Okay, who was your partner that day?
     A.   My partner that day was Delgado.
     Q.   Do you know your vehicle number?
     A.   Vehicle number was 138.
     Q.   Okay.  Any other EMS people around that you
remember seeing?
     A.   There was another Lieutenant along with
Lieutenant Albuerme there, I just can't recall his
E. PEREZ
19
name, but I have known him for quite sometime, because
I have seen him on the job.  He was there with me.  As
a matter of fact, after the first tower collapsed, we
thought he was missing, because we could see him when
he made the approach towards the initial tower had
collapsed.  We didn't see him after the clouds came
back.  I didn't see him thereafter.
          Then I think after the second collapse and
everything was said and done, now we was trying to
help, I guess, we had this instinct where we tried to
 -- I realize that we tried to find our men and the
only thing I could think of was make sure my partner
was okay and find out where the Lieutenants were at the
time.
          Albuerme came back, we were able to -- I
found him.  The other Lieutenant was with him also,
hugged each other and we couldn't believe.  Then they
started giving me directions on where to set up again.
We were just trying to adhere to their demands as best
we could.
     Q.   Any other thoughts or comments you would like
to add?
     A.   Well, you know, what I have to say is that
I'm very fortunate.  Like I said when I got back, I am
E. PEREZ
20
alive, so I must live.  I survived through the twin
towers collapse, so I'm fortunate.  It wasn't my time.
          MR. RADENBERG:  Okay, thank you.  The time is
     now 0628 hours.  The interview is concluded.
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
EMT FREDDY BURGOS
Interview Date: October 31, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
File No. 9110177
2 F. BURGOS
MR. RADENBERG: Today is October 31, 2001. The time is now 0719 hours.
Q. I'm Paul Radenberg of the Fire Department of
the City of New York conducting an interview with -- A. Freddy Burgos, emergency medical technician
for the Department of Fire.
Q. Of EMS Battalion 14. This interview is being
conducted at EMS Battalion 14 and is regarding the events of September 11, 2001. Freddy, just begin with when you were assigned to the job?
A. We got assigned to the job. We were
responding from the Bronx, down the FDR Highway. As we approached, we see the two burning buildings.
Apparently both aircrafts had already crashed into the building.
As we got downtown, we went through traffic to try and find the staging. We finally get to arrive at our staging area and we pull up. To my right I see one of the towers, I believe it's the first one that came down. In front of me on the other side of the street, there is numerous ambulances there.
So I decided I didn't want to put myself
right in the middle of it, so I backed my ambulance up to the opposite corner. Just then a rumble was heard,
3 F. BURGOS
and then after it goes black and pieces of metal and so forth and so forth started falling on the ambulance.
It goes completely black.
Thereafter, once it cleared up, I told my
partner once it clears up we will get out, get the equipment and we will get out of the vehicle, because we were still in the vehicle. We were actually a
little too close. That's where we wanted to go. When the first building came down, after the dust lifted
from that one, in front of me, the other ambulances, most of them not Fire Department, private or some other ambulances, burning. I witnessed one vehicle crushed.
I witnessed a limb inside the vehicle. There was obviously a person must have been dead inside it. The driver of the vehicle I believe it was.
What else do I say. Me and my partner, Karen Lamanna, get out of the vehicle. We put our equipment on the stretcher. We come down walking, or actually running back to any open buildings, where we could go inside with our equipment. People were in there and set up a little triage area. Little bit of that
stuff. Not much thereafter, prior to the second
building coming down.
Fire Department personnel and PD personnel
4 F. BURGOS
running into the building saying it's safe. Other
people in there, including ourselves, were evacuated
from that building and moved further away from the incident. As everybody was moving away, we are getting everybody. You could see obviously the body parts that were right next to us.
My partner goes one way. I go back to the ambulance to pick up some more O2 tanks and just prior to getting to the bus, I hear the rumble and I drop everything and I run out. As I'm running, I take a
look back, see the cloud of dust coming at me and I go into one of the buildings with a little walkway type of deal and ducked in there and see everything come by, it goes completely black. I waited a little bit before I came out. Come out and I'm walking to find Fire Department personnel.
I started walking towards the water. I guess
I figured if anything else came down, I'd go in the water. I walked alongside the water, until I wound up at one of the -- West Street or Chambers, I'm not exactly sure where it was. I walked over. I spoke to
a Captain. I forget which Captain it was. I think it was Captain Rivera. He was looking at me and I'm all dusty and I'm white and so forth, and he says well,
5 F. BURGOS
where is your partner, I said I think she is dead.
He takes me to the MERV, puts me in there and
from then on I stood there. Not too long before I walked up to -- caught a ride actually, up to the
Chelsea Piers where everything was being stationed at. Before you knew it, that was the whole day. From there we got shipped back here. That was about it.
Q. Okay. When you first got there, were you on the West Side Highway, West Street?
A. I was right along the West Side Highway, parallel.
Q. Somewhere around Liberty?
A. Right.
Q. Okay. When the building came, the first
building came down, after you got your stuff out of the bus.
A. My stuff was still in the bus. When the
first building came down, we were in the bus when the first building came down.
Q. After that, when you got out of the bus,
okay, did you come across West Side Highway, did you head west, do you remember?
A. I think I went down -- these buildings along this side here. We got out of the bus and we came
6 F. BURGOS
down, down south into one of the buildings in there. That's where we set up our staging area. That lasted about 15 minutes, before somebody else came in and said it's not safe. We came back out and I went to my bus
real quick to get more O2 tanks and everybody was going south. That's the last I saw of my partner, by the
way.
Q. She was heading south?
A. If I remember correctly, she was heading
south on the West Side Highway. Q. Okay.
A. I got caught up, because I went back to get more O2 tanks.
Q. Do you remember any -- when you first got
there, any other EMS personnel that you recognized down there, officers?
A. Not officers, I saw a couple of people that were there. I remember I saw Patterson, I forget his first name.
Q. Patterson?
A. One of the workers that was there got hit by something coming down and he hurt his arm. That I remember. Somewhere along the way, there was another EMT, I don't remember who he was. We helped him, he
7 F. BURGOS
helped us with all our shit. I don't know where his
bus was. I don't think he did either. That was -- the point we came down, when I came out of that building, after the second tower came down, I was alone here.
By this time, when building number two came down, I was alone. I didn't know where anybody was. I commenced going before the second building came down and jumping into one of these buildings. I remember falling on my face a couple of times. I kept tripping
over body parts. Like they were covered by dust, so I couldn't see where I was going.
After that I came out and I started walking towards the water. I kept looking at the water because I kept saying to myself, if something else comes down, I'm going to jump in the water.
Q. You could see the Hudson from where you were on the west side?
A. I knew it was there. It was partially
blocked, but I knew it was there. My wife works at World Financial Center. So I knew the water was there. From then on I met up with -- as we were walking along the water, I met -- started to see
people, bump into people. A couple I knew, a couple of people. Joey Conzo, that was it. Until I finally got
8 F. BURGOS
to the (inaudible) from.
Q. Once you reached the Hudson, you went north
towards Chambers?
A. Started walking up towards Chambers where
--- somebody said something about Chambers as far as West Street, or whatever that street was, as far as the first safety area. So that's basically where I kept heading, along the water. Basically kept heading that up that way; rubble, mess, shit like that, body parts everywhere.
Q. Yes, yes.
A. (inaudible).
Q. Do you remember offhand what vehicle you were
in, the vehicle number that day?
A. I think it was 448, but I can't be sure.
Q. What was your partner's name?
A. Karen Lamanna. She was ALS. I was working
overtime that day. I wasn't even supposed to be working. I was off that day. I came in for overtime and that was my first job.
Q. Okay.
A. (inaudible).
Q. Okay. Any thoughts or comments?
A. We were too close, we were too fucking
9 F. BURGOS
close. It wasn't just EMS. It was the entire system. Too close. That's about my only opinion that, too damn close.
MR. RADENBERG: Okay, the time is now 0731. The interview is concluded. The interview date
was October 31, 2001, not as previously stated August 31, 2001.
File No. 9110178
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
SUPERVISOR FIRE MARSHAL BRIAN GROGAN
Interview Date: October 31, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
B. GROGAN 2
FIRE MARSHAL RIGNOLA: I'm Sal Rignola.
I'm here with my partner, Cliff Krug. I'm
on the eighth floor at Nine Metrotech, Fire Department headquarters. The day is October 31st, 2001. I'm here to interview
Supervisor Fire Marshal Grogan about the events that happened on September 11th, 2001.
Q. Fire Marshal Grogan, can you tell me
how you responded, how you became aware of the incident that happened on September 11th and how you proceeded to the location.
A. I was working a Brooklyn base. I heard on the department radio -- I'm pretty sure it was Chief Barbara. He was calling for every available ambulance that they could get. It was kind of strange to hear something like that, like what was going on.
I jumped out of the chair, and I heard
the guys in the squad room pointing to the TV. They were yelling, "Look at this. Boss, come over here. Take a look at this thing." I looked up, and the Trade Center, tower one, was hit. We didn't know how or what or what was causing it,
B. GROGAN 3 but you could see the fire.
When we looked out the bay window on the side of the building, you could see the tower clear as day. There was black smoke billowing out of this thing.
What did I do? I was sitting there. I think my wife called, and I told her to turn the television on, take a look at what was on TV. Then with that, we got a call from headquarters. I assume it was headquarters. I don't know who it was from at this point. Somebody was telling us, everybody get down there, everybody had to turn out to this thing.
So I was in the office when that call camein. IwentbackouttotheTV. AsIwas getting the guys together, I looked up at the television and I saw the explosion of the second tower.
Q. The second plane coming in?
A. I didn't see the second plane, because the picture that we had I think was from the north view of the south tower. You could see that big explosion, that gas that exploded out I guess it would be the north side of the tower.
B. GROGAN 4
Got everybody together. I think it was at that point I heard the total recall, or it may
have been before that, on the radio. There was so much traffic on it.
Q. You're speaking of the department radio?
A.
The department radio, yeah.
So we got our stuff together, threw it
in the car. Everybody left.
Q. Were you by yourself?
A. I drove with I'm pretty sure it was
Stevie Heavey. I'm pretty sure he was with me. It was just him and myself.
We went down past the Army terminal to
get onto the ramp of the northbound BQE. We went around a cop car. We got up onto the ramp, and there was a motorcycle cop right in front of us.
He was going down the left lane. It just opened
up. It never usually opens up for you, that
road. It just happened to open up. Freaky thing
it was.
We made it into Manhattan. We had the full view of the two towers the whole time, the whole trip in, which took only about five
B. GROGAN 5 minutes.
Q. How did you go to Manhattan? Through the tunnel? Brooklyn Bridge?
A. We went through the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel. We went through the tunnel, and as soon as we came out onto West Street, I pulled the car over and just parked right there.
Q. Do you recall --
A. Where is it on here? Here's the
tunnel. Right here. As soon as the tunnel ends and it ends right on West -- see this isn't quite right. But I pulled underneath here. You had the structure over the top of us.
Q. As soon as you came out of the tunnel, you parked the car?
A. Parked the car. We suited up, put our
Fire Department gear on, what bunker gear we had, and we started walking up West Street. I don't recall if the other car was directly behind me at that point, because there was different squads working with us that day, the other supervisor.
So I was walking up West, and I noticed the first block we passed I noticed in the street right at the end of where the Jersey barriers are
B. GROGAN 6 that split up the road before you go into the
tunnel -- I guess it would be Carlisle -- I saw the first body or parts of a body, upper torso, no head, no arms or legs. I saw another one across the street.
Q. These are from the people that were jumping out of the building?
A. No, I don't believe so. I believe it
was from the airplane, people in the building and the airplane coming through and it blew these people out into the street, because you couldn't have jumped that far. It's impossible. Some of them were burnt. Some of them were just a big bag of bone and meat.
We walked up further, and we saw other things. I saw hands, I saw feet. We got up to the pedestrian bridge --
Q. Which is near Liberty Street?
A. It's right on the corner of Liberty and West. We started to stage some of our guys. As they were coming out of the tunnel, they came up to us and we pulled them over to -- we were going to go over to the command post at that point. We could see the command post from the other side of
B. GROGAN 7 the pedestrian bridge, the south bridge.
Q. At this time was the command post in front of the Winter Garden?
A. I don't know if that was a command
post. I think it was actually in front of the
Merrill Lynch building, because I saw some of the brass standing over there. I saw the big mask service unit pulling in, and I remember telling
the guy to stop because there was some bodies in the street. I told him to stop and go around
them. Then I saw a guy from Rescue, Ray Phillips. He had walked up to me.
Q. Which rescue?
A. He was in Rescue 3. I don't know if he's in a tack unit or something right now. But he walked up to me.
With that we turned around, we looked across the street, and we saw the first few people jumping out of the buildings. At that point it started raining people. You just stood there and watched it.
We were looking at the south tower, and somebody had come up to me and asked me if they thought that they were getting water on the fire.
B. GROGAN 8
We were right across the street from it. You saw this white smoke. You couldn't tell if it was a line actually hitting the fire or not. There was
a lot of black smoke above it. So it appears as
if somebody was in there hitting it.
Then our chief came over, Chief McKay. He wanted us on the other side of the bridge, the pedestrian bridge.
Q. At Liberty?
A. The south pedestrian bridge. I don't know if that's Financial four. I think it is.
We were staging there, trying to keep everybody together to see whatever orders we were going to take, to keep the guys right there. We
just kept watching bodies jumping out, people jumping out of the buildings.
At that point I looked up, and it was
Joe Pasquarello grabbed me, and he gave me a pull on my arm. He said, "Get the fuck out of there."
I looked up --
Q. Were you still on West Street at this time?
A. Still standing there. The building just started coming down. It buckled.
B. GROGAN 9 Q. Are we walking about --
A. Two World Trade Center.
Q. The south tower.
A. It started coming down. We ran up the
little hill that was in front of the building. I remember him yelling to me to follow the building south. So we ran up on this little grassy hill
here, hit the front of the building. I remember
Dr. Kelly just passing me. Before she did, she was going north. I don't know where she went after that.
We hit the front of that building, and then we started crawling. By the time we got to the front of the building, you couldn't see anything. There was absolutely nothing --
Q. You're talking about Dow Jones?
A. It says Dow Jones here. I don't know if that's the building or not that's there now.
We started crawling, feeling the building until we got around the corner. It's a different shape than this. That's not the building. It cuts in like this.
Coming down the across the front of the building, and you get hit with stuff. It's
B. GROGAN 10
getting heavier and heavier. You make the turn. There was a bunch of people. There had to be about five or six people in here. We came around here. We were going to stay there. We didn't know where else to go. I didn't know the building went down inside like this.
So we all piled up, and I heard Joe
yelling to go down the ramp. There's a ramp down here that goes down to Albany Street.
So I grabbed the two or three people
that were in front of me, pulled them down to the ground, and we started crawling. I hit something blocking my way. There was a fence here, something right across in front of me. I kept turning, right to around it, but I kept hitting
the fence. It was a foot high or whatever.
I turned around and went back to the building. I could feel the building and felt
over the top of this thing and just crawled over
it. I grabbed the guy that was behind me, and we continued south on that ramp. We made the right on Albany, and there was a cutout in the building for a garage. It was a setback.
Q. So at this time you're between West
B. GROGAN 11 Street and South End Avenue?
A. Right. We're heading towards the water going west on Albany. We were still on the property here of that building. We crawled into this garage area. The outside of the building and the garage itself was maybe eight to ten feet, and then there was a rolldown gate.
It was the first time you could see anything from that whole trip from the front of the building around to the side. You could actually start to see here.
But as we're in there, cops were coming
in. We had all kinds of people with us. We couldn't get in through the rolldown gate. We were all choking and throwing up and whatnot and trying to collect ourselves to some extent.
We decided we couldn't stay there. I was telling Joe Pasquarello -- he just got in there. I said we've got to get out of here because if you could actually see parts of the building laying in front of us, landing and whatnot. So I figured we were going to get buried in there, so let's just get the hell out of here and start heading towards the water.
B. GROGAN 12
So we left there, and we went down the
sidewalk. We went down over the next corner. You couldn't even tell that we crossed the street. We went down as far as we could on Albany towards the water and went to the first building that we could get into. There had to be 50, 60 people following us in there. It would be the Hudson Tower.
So we went in there, and some EMTs and whatnot came in after us. They had some water with them. We stayed in there for a short period of time -- I don't know how long it was -- 15 minutes. We figured we couldn't stay in there. The cops that were coming in were saying the second tower was coming down. We had no idea what was going on, and I wasn't going to doubt anybody at that point.
So I went out the door to find the water, because we still couldn't really see the water. It was only a matter of maybe 100 feet from there. You couldn't really see the waterfront.
So I had a flashlight, and it actually started to work in that area. I found the water.
B. GROGAN 13
I just turned around and waved to Pasquarello and told him to come on down towards the water. We saw the fire boat was sitting right there.
So we got to the water, and that's when
the second tower came down and you couldn't see again. We started crawling or running or just trying to get out of there as fast as we could
down south on the esplanade. There were police boats and whatnot picking people up.
We made it all the way around the battery, right to the battery at the end of West Street. The smoke was still coming and the dust and whatnot, because it was all heading south on us.
We had a roll call down there, trying
to circle up our guys and find out who was
missing and who was where. The only one we came up missing was Ron Bucca.
We stayed down there. The assistant
chief came down and told us to stand fast until
we had further orders. Then they relocated us again into Battery Park. The chief fire marshal met us there and told us that -- he made his way down there and told us that the command post was
B. GROGAN 14 gone and Father Judge was gone.
That was pretty much the end of our --
Q. You never made it to the command post;
right?
A. No.
Q. You know it stood at the south pedestrian bridge.
A. We had a view, though. We could see where the command post was on the other side north of the south pedestrian bridge. But as far as what people were there, I couldn't tell you.
Q. You didn't see anyone going in?
A. I just saw guys going in. You couldn't
see who it was. It was crystal-clear when we were there. There was nothing blocking our view, but afterwards you see anything.
FIRE MARSHAL RIGNOLA: Thank you very much. The time is approximately 1042.
Thank you very much.
File No. 9110179
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
          CHIEF FRANK CRUTHERS
   Interview Date:  October 31, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
F. CRUTHERS
          MR. RIGNOLA:  This is Salvatore Rignola.  I'm
     here with my partner Fire Marshal Cliff Krug.
     Today's date is Wednesday, October 31, 2001.  The
     time is approximately 9:50.  I'm at 9 Metrotech,
     7th floor, speaking to Chief Cruthers, who is the
     Citywide Tour Commander.  Chief, I'm going to ask
     you some questions about the events that happened
     on September 11, the year 2001.
     Q.   Tell me when you initially received the alarm
and how you responded and where you went.
     A.   That morning I was off duty.  I was at home
in Rockville Centre, and I was having breakfast with
the TV on and the news break came on that the Trade
Center had been hit by an airplane.  I immediately went
upstairs to get dressed, to respond.  As I was getting
changed, I got a phone call telling me that - the same
thing and I said that I knew and then was informed that
the call was regarding the second plane.  So I was
still in my house when the second plane hit.  I then
get in my car and I drove myself directly to the scene.
     Q.   So you had no aide, you went on your own?
     A.   Right.  I know that I came on the Southern
State Parkway and the traffic got very heavy and I got
off and came through the Brooklyn streets, and as I was
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F. CRUTHERS
coming, I was still debating which route to take.  I
believe I came in the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel.  I came
out of the tunnel on to West Street.  I turned to the
right and I parked pretty close to Rector Street.  In
the middle there were some angled emergency vehicles
parked, angled into the median on West Street.  So I
parked there.
     Q.   West and Rector?
     A.   Pretty close to Rector.  I got out of the
car, got my gear on and walked north on West Street.
As I was walking north, I contacted Chief of Department
Ganci to find his location so that I could report to
the command post for assignment.  I also heard Chief
Barbara on the handy talky --
     Q.   Do you remember the time you arrived about?
     A.   No, but that will become evident to me in a
couple of minutes.  I got to the corner of Albany and
West Street.  There was a pumper on West Street at the
northwest corner of the intersection.  I got a look at
what was happening.  I stopped at the pumper, opened
the officer's door, I threw my shoes and my bunker
pants into the officer's seat and put my boots on and
my coat.  And then once again started to proceed north
on West Street.
3
F. CRUTHERS
          There were some units there, along with a
Battalion Chief and I gave them some instructions as to
what to try to do.  And while I was still in that
immediate area, the south tower, 2 World Trade Center,
there was what appeared to be at first an explosion.
It appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all
four sides, materials shot out horizontally.  And then
there seemed to be a momentary delay before you could
see the beginning of the collapse.
          At that point, I turned and ran west on
Albany Street, okay, in an attempt to get beyond the
corner of this building on the diagram marked Dow
Jones.  I got a ways down.  As I was running down the
street, the cloud kind of overtook us, then the air
seemed to be filled with a lot of very light material.
Most of it appeared to be paper.  At that point, I dove
on the ground on the south side of a car that was
parked on the north side of Albany Street and there was
some other firefighters there.
     Q.   Chief, that was between West and South End
Street?
     A.   Yes.  I told them to stay there.  Some more
debris came down, a little heavier but it didn't seem
to me at that particular point there was any really
4
F. CRUTHERS
heavy stuff.  Couple of people - after the cloud
cleared, which took some minutes, there were a couple
of people who were injured.  I reestablished contact
with Chief Ganci after the first collapse.
     Q.   The first collapse was at 9:55, so you figure
around maybe 15 minutes before that?
     A.   That I arrived?
     Q.   Yes.
     A.   It's hard to tell.  Time was -- like I say I
know all the things that I did, how long they take I
don't know.  It all just tends to run together.
     Q.   After the first collapse --
     A.   After the first collapse I spoke to Chief
Ganci again on the handy talky.  I never heard Chief
Barbara's voice after the first collapse.  I was again
making my way north and West Street was strewn with
heavy debris.  As a means of getting north without
traversing the debris field I went into one of these
buildings.  It's a building where they had an entry on
the southeast corner of the building.  It's a grade
level entrance and when you go in that entrance, there
is an escalator that runs from southeast to northwest
to the next level.
          I had been in the building before and my
5
F. CRUTHERS
recollection was that if I went up that escalator, that
it was a rather circuitous route to get from the south
side of the building to the north side of the building,
which is where I wanted to go.  So I took a look around
in that lobby, grade level lobby to see if there was
access to continue more directly to get through the
building and out the north side to get to the command
post.
          While I was doing that, I heard more
rumbling.  I took refuge on the west side of the
escalator corner.  Once again there was a tremendous
cloud.  It was pitch black.  I waited again until the
cloud began to lift.  I made my way back around to the
same entrance that I had come in, and then -- from that
point, I don't remember what route I went by, but I
made my way north up to Vesey Street.
     Q.   This is after --
     A.   After the second tower came down.  I had
given direction to some units working there.  At that
point, I was told that the command post had been drawn
further back north up around Chambers Street.  I made
my way back up there.  I met Chief Fellini.  We
exchanged what we knew about who among the command
structure had been - who we could account for.  Chief
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F. CRUTHERS
Callan was up at that command location.  And Chief
Fellini asked me if I had seen Chief Ganci or Chief
Nigro.  I believe I learned from him that Chief Cassano
had been moved to a hospital and we set it up that I
would be the incident commander at the command post and
Chief Fellini would be the operations officer, and
would go forward, back down to the - closer to the
site, set up an operations post and let me know what he
needed and we would try to start getting up and getting
organized.
          A short time after that I believe, Chief Turi
showed up at the command post and some time later,
Chief Nigro arrived.  I believe he had been over
somewhere on the east side of the complex and came down
and made his way back to where we were.
     Q.   So Chief, you'd never seen Chief Ganci, you
only had radio contact?
     A.   I never saw him that day.  I spoke with him
on the handy talky, both before and after the first
collapse.  After the first collapse I was unable to get
any response.
     Q.   Did you ever talk to Chief Barbara?
     A.   Chief Barbara I heard his voice.  I don't
remember whether we spoke directly or not, but I never
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F. CRUTHERS
heard his voice again after the first collapse.
     Q.   Where was the command post set up that you
were heading to?
     A.   My understanding was Albany - that the
command post was somewhere in this area.  Between Vesey
and Liberty, but closer to Vesey.
     Q.   Near the Winter Garden.
     A.   From then, we continued to operate and we got
word on the handy talky traffic that there was another
group that had formed over on Church Street and Chief
Tom Haring from the Eighth Division, now he's down in
the Sixth Division, had set up and was operating on
that side.  We set up a staging area further up.
Eventually we moved once things got going, and moved up
closer to the staging area down a little closer to the
actual operation.
          Early on, there was concern that 7 World
Trade Center might have been both impacted by the
collapsing tower and had several fires in it and there
was a concern that it might collapse.  So we instructed
that a collapse area --
     Q.   A collapse zone?
     A.   Yeah -- be set up and maintained so that when
the expected collapse of 7 happened, we wouldn't have
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F. CRUTHERS
people working in it.   There was considerable
discussion with Con Ed regarding the substation in that
building and the feeders and the oil coolants and so
on.  And their concern was of the type of fire we might
have when it collapsed.  They shut down the power, and
when it did collapse, the things that they were
concerned with would have been.  That's about it.
     Q.   Do you want to add anything?
     A.   No.
          MR. RIGNOLA:  Thank you Chief.  It's 5 after
     10, and that's the end of this tape.  Thank you
     very much.
9
File No. 9110180
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
          EMT FAROOQ MUHAMMAD
   Interview Date:  November 1, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
F. MUHAMMAD
          LIEUTENANT FEILER:  Today's date is November
1st, 2001.  The time now is 1035 hours, and this is
Monty Feiler of the New York City Fire Department,
World Trade Center Task Force.  I'm conducting an
interview with the following individual:
     Q.   Please state your name, rank, title and
assigned command.
     A.   My name is Farooq Muhammad.  I'm an EMT.
Presently I'm on light duty at BHS.  I normally work at
Battalion 58.
     Q.   Of the New York City Fire Department.  We're
conducting the interview at the BITS office regarding
the events of September 11th, 2001.  Could you go
ahead, beginning with when you first became aware of
the incident?
     A.   Well, I was going about my normal daily
routine.  I was driving along to work.  I was actually
driving along Flatbush Avenue, and what I saw was a lot
of smoke coming from the direction of lower Manhattan.
I didn't know what it was.  I just saw that people were
actually looking at it.  I thought some building was on
fire.  I didn't know exactly what it was.  Eventually,
I made it to this parking lot where I sometimes park
the car if I do bring my car, and I went inside and
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F. MUHAMMAD
these two gentlemen are talking and they're saying how
terrible it is about what just happened.  I go what
happened?  And they tell me that two planes went into
the World Trade Center and I was shocked.
          So what I did was I just left my car there
and I ran across the street into the Fire Department
Headquarters, where I work presently, and I looked at
the TV in the waiting room for BHS, and I see that two
planes had struck the World Trade Center.  I was
shocked, dismayed.  My first reaction was to get there
or to speak to somebody who was going there, see what
the deal is.  I knew I was on light duty, but I wasn't
really concerned about that.  I just wanted to get over
there.
          So what happened was I tried to find Captain
Jay Swithers, who was my supervisor, and I found that
he had already gone.  He wasn't there.  So I couldn't
ask him and there wasn't anybody really to ask.  So
what I did was I teamed up with a few other EMS
members.  They were actually all paramedics.  I
remember the names of William Tier, a paramedic by the
name of Bonnie, another one by the name of Roque
Torres, another gentleman, I forget his name offhand.
We decided to go together.  We just left the building
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F. MUHAMMAD
and we started looking for an ambulance.  We just
basically flagged an ambulance and it happened to be a
private ambulance.  I don't even remember the name.  I
think it might have been Associate.  But we flagged
them down, they stopped for us, we jumped on and we
went over the Brooklyn Bridge and we ended up in that
part of town, lower Manhattan, where the incident
occurred.  But we weren't right in front of the
buildings yet.
          What happened was we met up with some other
EMS people and we started to decide how we were going
to work the situation.  There was just pandemonium
there.  People were running around, people didn't know
where to go, people were shocked, people were just
frantic.  Eventually, an EMS lieutenant said that we
should -- I guess they set up triage across from the
towers.
     Q.   Do you know which lieutenant it was?
     A.   I forget her name offhand.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   It was the first time I ever saw her.
          So we said fine and we together -- we decided
we weren't going to split up.  This was the initial
thing, we weren't going to split up, and these are the
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F. MUHAMMAD
paramedics that I went with.  We told each other let's
stick together.  So together we went in front of the
tower and we found that there were other EMS members
there that had already set up triage and they were
triaging people who had asthma attacks, burns and stuff
like that.  I saw Captain Jay Swithers there, I saw
Manny Delgado, I saw Lieutenant Bruce Medjuck there
and -- actually, prior to even going there, I did see
Ricardo Quinn.  I did run into him and speak to him
briefly.
     Q.   Where did you see him?
     A.   This is somewhere in that part of lower
Manhattan, around there, somewhere around Broadway or
something like that, somewhere in that area.  I don't
know exactly which street it was, but I did speak to
him briefly.  He had come in, from what I remember, an
ambulance with somebody else, and after that I didn't
see him again.
          Anyway, we ended up in front of the tower and
we were triaging people.  We were giving them oxygen,
giving them nebulizers.  We had made a plan.  There
were ambulances out in front.  We decided we were going
to start transporting people, this is what we were
going to do, and before you knew it, we heard a loud
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F. MUHAMMAD
noise, you looked up, and the tower was collapsing.  So
we started to actually run for our lives.  The debris
caught up with us.  We couldn't see, we couldn't
breathe.  It was just horrible.  I was actually
suffocating.  I thought I was going to pass out and
die.  I mean, at first I thought something was going to
hit me because there was debris that was coming.  There
was just stuff falling everywhere.  I covered myself.
Actually, while I was running, I fell because there were so many people running and I got trampled a little bit, but I got back up and started running again, and then all of a sudden I just couldn't run because I was suffocating so bad, I couldn't breathe, I couldn't see, and all I thought was, oh, no, here I am going to die now because I can't breathe, I can't see anything. So I started screaming a little bit, as much asIcould. Idecidedtoseeif--Iwaslikeis anybody here, anybody around me? All I heard was keep running, keep running. I heard a voice. So I just kept running.
          Eventually I made it to -- well, actually,
before the debris came, while the building was still
collapsing, I was actually telling people to run
because there were people who were frozen, like
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F. MUHAMMAD
civilians, people that were just frozen.  They weren't
moving, women.  I remember mostly women standing there
and not running and I was telling them run, run, run,
you know, because they were like frozen.  They wouldn't
move.  I guess I encouraged some of them to run because
I made eye contact with some of the people and I
started yelling at them to run.
          So we started to run, and when I looked back,
I actually saw the cloud coming, and so you couldn't
outrun the cloud.  It was just coming so fast and it
was like, oh, no, here it comes, and then whoosh, it
just passed us, and this was where it was like darkness
and it was like breathing in like thick, thick dirt.
That's all it was.  It was just like every breath you
took, it was like you were just suffocating because it
wasn't oxygen, it wasn't air.
          But after falling and getting up again and
then just having the will to just keep running, that's
what I did.  I ran and luckily somewhere this door
opened up.  I didn't even know what it was.  I ran
inside.  It happened to be a store.  It was some kind
of like fabric store because I saw a lot of like fabric
stacked up while I was downstairs in the basement.
There was a police officer down there.  Somebody from
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F. MUHAMMAD
the Buildings Department was down there.  I actually
think I might have his name because later on I took his
card.  One second.
          Yes.  His name was Michael Carbone.  He was
down there, one police officer, another law enforcement
officer, I don't remember his name, but he did have a
firearm and a shield on, but he was in a suit.  What we
did, there was some water down there, so we were like
clearing our throats.  There was like thick stuff
coming up.  For a good ten minutes all we were doing,
we were just coughing and trying to breathe.  But a lot
of debris was coming downstairs into there also.
          But after I regained myself a little bit, I
spoke to this gentleman, Mr. Carbone, and the other law
enforcement person, and I said I want to get back out
there, see if I can help people, and they agreed.  They
were like let's see what we could do.  So the three of
us got together and we went back outside, and when we
were outside, it was just so thick still, the debris.
It was like so thick.  We were right close to the tower
that in that area the debris was so thick that after
running a little bit, we decided to go into this other
building that was some kind of like not-for-profit
organization.  I don't even know the name.
8
F. MUHAMMAD
          We go in there and, once again, there we are
coughing and trying to get water, and we had some
people that were there.  We started washing them off,
helping them to clean themselves off.  There was a
woman down there who had broke her leg.  We carried her
downstairs and put her in a comfortable chair because
she was very frantic.  She was screaming.  We told her
to calm down because we didn't want her to excite the
other people that were coming in.  So we took her
downstairs, we propped her leg up, made her
comfortable, told her to relax, calmed her down.
     Q.   Do you know her name?
     A.   No, I didn't know her name.  None of the
phones were working.  We tried to call our loved ones.
I have loved ones in Manhattan who worked on Liberty.
I have a loved one who worked on Liberty and Broadway,
another brother who was in midtown Manhattan.  I
couldn't reach anyone.  I didn't know if they were okay
or not.  But luckily, thank God, I found out later on
they made it out okay.
          So while we were in this place, we were
helping people clean themselves off.  People were
coming in like totally covered.  You couldn't even tell
what color they were, if they were black or white,
9
F. MUHAMMAD
because they were all covered in this debris.
Everybody was like one color.  Then they couldn't
breathe.  It was in their ears, eyes, and we were
cleaning them off, and the stuff was like burning.  It
was like burning your skin.  The stuff was really bad.
          What we decide to do then was to get out of
this building now and try to go back outside and help
people.  So what we did was we got these garbage bags
and a bunch of these people that ran into the building
that we were in gave us a bunch of wet rags -- I mean
gave us a bunch rags that we wet.  We asked for rags;
do you have any rags?  They found some rags and they
gave us the rags and we soaked them, we put them in
garbage bags, and we got a bunch of bottled water and
we put those in bags and we were going to go outside.
          But right before we were going to go outside,
the next big, loud noise comes and here comes another
big, thick cloud of debris.  So it's like we opened the
door and we see the debris coming and now people were
running and we were like trying to let as many people
in as we can.  We're like okay, come on, get in, get
in, and before you knew it, we had to shut the door
because otherwise the whole place was going to be
filled with it.  So we shut the door, and at one point,
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F. MUHAMMAD
you could see through the windows, and when the debris
came, it was pitch darkness again.  It was like you
couldn't see anything outside.  You didn't know what
was going on with the people.
          After that cleared a little bit, we let more
people in and we helped clean them off, and then we
finally went outside.  I grabbed the bottles of water,
and Mr. Michael Carbone from the Department of
Buildings, he and the other gentleman, they grabbed the
rags and we went outside and we started giving rags to
people and bottles of water to people, like here.
Everybody was like more than willing to take it.  They
really needed it.  People were covered in the stuff,
they couldn't breathe, they wanted to clear their
throats.  So we were giving it out.
I walked one block and then I saw -- I didn't see any EMS people at this time. We were outside. I don't see any EMS people. I see police officers but no EMS people. But then after walking a couple blocks, after like ten minutes, I see Captain Jay Swithers and Iwassohappytoseehim. Iranuptohim,Igavehim a hug, I'm like I'm glad to see that you're okay because we were like so close to the tower that I was sure that a lot of people got hurt or lost. He told me
11
F. MUHAMMAD
that he was over there, he ducked under a truck
somewhere eventually and that he was okay and I was
happy to hear that.  I told these gentlemen that I'm
going to stay with him and they decided to move on.
          So me and Captain Swithers, we started to
just try to figure out what we're going to do.  We
started walking around.  In the meantime, I was giving
everybody water.  I had cups also that I took because I
knew that eventually the water was going to run low, so
I wouldn't give people bottles, I'd put it in cups, and
that's what I was doing.  When the water was running
low, I started putting it in cups, giving it to
people.  People were running over to us and asking us
where do we go?  What do we do?  All we could tell them
was go to the Brooklyn Bridge, go over the bridge and
go to Brooklyn, you know, just stay away from that
area, just go towards the bridge and try to go to
Brooklyn, try to get out of Manhattan.  That's all we
could tell them.  We didn't have any other advice to
really give them.
          Finally, we kept walking.  We made it towards
South Street Seaport area and we started walking along
that and we were like trying to figure out where to go,
and we were both like concerned.  We didn't know if the
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F. MUHAMMAD
next building was going to come down, there was another
bomb, you know, it's like one of those tense feelings,
it's like a war zone.  There was the thick debris, it
was like three inches on the ground all over the
place.  It was like walking in the snow.  People were
covered in this, people who had no shoes, people's
clothes were ripped.  It's just a horrible scene.
          Anyway, a whole group of police officers were
walking by and we asked them, do you know if anything
is going on, any kind of like treatment area?  They
said, well, we hear there's something going on at South
Street Seaport, South Street ferry area, Staten Island
Ferry.  So we walked over there.  We kept walking and
walking, and when we got there, we saw that they
started setting up some type of triage and we helped
set that up.  There were IV lines and all kinds of
equipment set up in the lobby of that area.  Just then
a whole like large group of firemen arrived from Staten
Island and everybody was cheering them and they went
about their business.
          So I remained there doing triage, but Captain
Swithers, he eventually left because he was part of the
USAR team, Urban Search and Rescue, so he had to go do
that.  So I stayed there and I helped treat a lot of
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F. MUHAMMAD
people who had lacerations, they had sprained ankles
and stuff like that, and I helped put them in the stair
chair.  I helped wrap them up, treat them, put them in
the stair chair and wheel them to the ambulances and
put them in the ambulances and the ambulances took
them.  I didn't do any kind of ambulance driving or
anything like that.  I remained at the South Street
ferry.
     Q.   Do you know who was supervising that area?
     A.   Chief...
          It's on the tip of my tongue.  I forget his
name offhand.
     Q.   Were there any other EMS people there that
you recognized that you may have come across?
     A.   Timothy, a gentleman by the name of Timothy,
who was at BHS also.  That was his first day full duty
again.  I saw George Gatt, EMT.  There were some
Metropolitan people there also.  I forget their names
offhand.  Bruce Medjuck was also there at the time.  He
ended up there.  So did Manny Delgado.  One of the
people in the ambulances for doing transport.
     Q.   There was a Fire Department car there, too.
     A.   Idris Bey.  I eventually saw Idris Bey.
     Q.   Who is that?
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F. MUHAMMAD
     A.   He's an EMT for the Fire Department.
     Q.   How do you spell that?
     A.   B-e-y is the last name.  I-d-r-i-s.  We sort
of gave each other a big hug and everything because
he's actually a black Muslim and I happen to be a
Muslim and we both like were just shocked at this
because why would anybody do this in the name of any
religion, you know what I mean?  Just a horrible thing
that people were actually looking at Islam as the
enemy, not just those people who did that.  So it was
good to see him and actually just talk about it for
like a good five minutes, just reminding ourselves that
there's no way that we could ever accept anything like
this as being Islamic, you know, ever, because we know
from the Koran that this is an evil thing and Islam
never teaches this.
          Also, I had another EMT friend there, Stephen
Valladares.  Joan Hillgardner was there.  Hillgardner.
She was there.  She's part of the union.  She was just
doing a lot of good work there, she was doing a lot of
triage, she was giving a lot of people emotional
support.  Just a whole slew of EMS people there.  We
were treating a lot of firemen.  It was just a very
emotional thing.  Eventually it started catching up
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F. MUHAMMAD
with you, what's going on.  So we did a lot of treating
there.  A lot of firemen came in with eye injuries and
sprains and strains.  We had cots and everything set up
and we were treating them.
          It was hard.  We were running out of masks,
nobody had any face masks, so everybody just kept
breathing that stuff in because nobody had even the
disposable type masks.  We really needed the heavy-duty
ones, but we didn't even have the disposable ones.
Ambulances were like completely finished.  Nobody had
any.  It was like people who were part of hospitals
eventually would come by and say, look, you need
masks?  I have a few.  It was like that.  It was like
we had no masks.  It was just terrible.
     Q.   Is there anything else that you want to add
before we conclude, anything that you think is
important, that you want to reiterate?
     A.   Well, I'd like to reiterate the fact that, as
a Muslim who works for the Fire Department, that I can
say that, as far as my family is concerned, as far as
my friends who happen to be Muslims are concerned, that
this is no way, you know, this no way reflects Islam.
Islam does not teach this.  Islam is a religion of
peace and it teaches brotherhood amongst all people and
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F. MUHAMMAD
races.  Regardless of what religion they are, you're
supposed to treat them with respect, just like you
would treat your own mother or father with respect.
What you would want for yourself, that's how you treat
them.
          I think not only was this an attack on the
United States, but the people who did this also
attacked Islam because now here you are with millions
of people in the world thinking that Islam is something
that's of violence, when really it isn't, when really
it's these people who chose it as a means to get their
 -- whatever they did, you know, to get that done, not
to actually portray the true Islam.  It's just
something that they tried to use to manipulate.  That's
what a lot of people do, unfortunately, and a lot of
people out there who claim to be Muslims do manipulate
people into thinking that killing innocent people is
good when Islam clearly teaches you that it's something
that's not tolerated by God and never will be and it
shouldn't be tolerated by any Muslim.
          So I'd like to let people know that,
hopefully, I just hope that people could realize that.
People could just do some research on their own instead
of just listening to somebody who says that, oh, no,
17
F. MUHAMMAD
Islam teaches hatred or violence.  Hopefully, they
could research on their own and find that, no, it's the
opposite.  It teaches peace and love for all humanity,
whether they're Jewish or Christian or Buddha or
whatever, rich or poor, men, women or children.  It
actually teaches respect for the most vulnerable, for
the weakest, poorest people.  You treat them equal, as
you would anyone.  There's no like you're better than
me or I'm better than you because I'm Muslim.  It just
doesn't work that way.
          It just hurts me that this happened, just
like a slap in the face, that's how I see it.  For
good-hearted Muslims who follow the true message all
over the world, I feel this is like a slap in the face,
and as an American, I hope that as a nation we could
conquer this terrorism, I really do hope that, because
my family came here many, many years ago for a better
life, to live the American dream.  I was born here,
raised here.  I'm an American citizen.  This is my
home.  I plan on keeping this as my home for as long as
I live.  I mean, I'm an American.  Where am I going to
go?  This is my home.  I truly hope that together
Americans can overcome this and that peace could be a
part of our daily lives instead of having to worry
18
F. MUHAMMAD
about getting on the train or traveling or driving in
your car worrying about some kind of terrorist attack,
or opening your mail, worrying about getting sick.
          LIEUTENANT FEILER:  Okay.  On behalf of the
Fire Department, I want to thank you for participating
in this.  Can I just get the time, please?
          A VOICE:  11:00.
          LIEUTENANT FEILER:  We'll conclude the
interview at 11:00 o'clock.  Thank you.
19

FILE NO 9110181
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT PAUL ADAMS
INTERVIEW DATE NOVEMBER 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY NANCY FRANCIS

ADAMS
LIEUTENANT RADENBERG TODAY NOVEMBER LIT
2001 IM PAUL RADENBERG OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT CITY OF NEW YORK THE TIME IS NOW 0647 HOURS AND IM
CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH
EMT PAUL ADAMS PAUL ADAMS BATTALION 49
SHIELD NO 2212
LIEUTENANT RADENBERG WERE CURRENTLY AT EMS
BATTALION 49 THIS INTERVIEW IS REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
PAUL IF YOU COULD START WITH WHEN YOU WERE
ASSIGNED TO THE JOB
YES THAT MORNING WE GOT THE JOB AT
APPROXIMATELY 900 OCLOCK IN THE MORNING FROM ELMHURST
WE CAME DOWN QUEENS BOULEVARD WE SAW ONE OF THE TOWERS HAD BEEN HIT ENGULFED IN SMOKE WE GOT ACROSS THE MIDTOWN TUNNEL WE WENT IN THE TUNNEL CAME OUT WE CAME DOWN SECOND AVENUE SOUTH GOT OVER TO BROADWAY WE GOT TO THE SITE AT 915 AT CHURCH AND VESEY STREET WHERE WE PARKED THE VEHICLE WE WALKED DOWN TO FULTON AND CHURCH WHERE THEY HAD TRIAGE SET
UP IN FRONT OF THE MILLENIUM HOTEL AT THAT TIME THE SECOND PLANE HAD JUST HIT JUST PRIOR TO OUR ARRIVAL
WE WERE ASKED IF WE HAD OUR TRIAGE TAGS BY OUR CAPTAIN AT THIS TIME JUST TURNED AROUND
HOSPITAL

ADAMS
PEOPLE WERE WALKING CUIT OF THE BUTI1DINIG WE GRABBED ONE PATIENT WHO WE FOUND OUT LATER HAD 70 PERCENT BURNS ON HER BODY SECOND AND THIRD DEGREE BURNS WE TOOK HER COUPLE OTHER PEOPLE AND SHOT OUT OF THERE WENT UP CANT REMEMBER THE STREET WE WENT UP BUT
ENDED UP GOING TO IT WAS THE WRONG WAY FACING BROADWAY IN FRONT OF ST VINCENTS ME AND MY PARTNER WE GOT HER OUT WITH SOME OTHER PEOPLE
THEN WE WENT BACK IN BACK TO THE SITE BACK TO THE SAME AREA THE TRIAGE AND ABOUT FIVE MINUTES LATER WE LOOKED UP WE WERE SCREAMING LOOKED UP SEE ONE OF THE BUILDINGS COMING DOWN RAN ABOUT 30 FEET FOUND OUT LATER ON WENT UP AGAINST
TRIPPED OVER FIRE HOSE LOST SIGHT OF MY PARTNER MOUS DIAZ GOT UP AND WENT UP AGAINST WHAT FOUND OUT NOW IS THE MILLENIUM HOTELS PARKING LOT GARAGE GATE IT WAS CLOSED IT HAD LIKE FOOT OVERHANG
WAS WITH THIS FBI AGENT AND PUT MY HELMET OVER MY FACE AND JUST STOOD AGAINST THE GATE AND TOOK
LOOK AND HERE COMES THE DEBRIS FROM ALL THE BUILDING IT LASTED FOR ABOUT TEN MINUTES COULDNT BREATHE MY LUNGS WERE FILLING UP WITH THIS STUFF DONT KNOW WHAT IT WAS THOUGHT WAS GOING TO DIE EITHER THE BUILDING DEBRIS WAS GOING TO HIT ME OR THE
QUICK

ADAMS
BUTILDIRIG WA UNDER WA GOING TO COLLAJME OR MY 1URIG WERE GOING TO COLLAPSE WAS HYPERVENTILATING
JUST THOUGHT TO MYSELF IVE GOT TO SLOW MY BREATHING DOWN DID THAT AND THATS THE ONLY THING THAT SAVED
ME
ABOUT CLOSE TO TEN MINUTES LATER THE DUST
STARTS DISSIPATING GRABBED THE FBI AGENT AND STARTED ANOTHER VEHICLE THAT WAS LIKE 20 FEET AWAY
PUT HIM IN IT SAID ILL BE BACK IN MINUTE WENT
AROUND GOT SIX SEVEN EIGHT OTHER PEOPLE PUT THEM IN THE TRUCK AND THEN WENT BACK TO THE SITE LOOKING FOR
MY PARTNER MOUS LOOKED AROUND FOR COUPLE MINUTES DIDNT HEAR NOTHING NO REACTION SO
SHOT OUT OF THERE HAD THE WINDSHIELD WIPERS ON FOR ABOUT FOUR FIVE BLOCKS IT WAS STILL CLOUDY OUT
DUST
DROPPED THESE PATIENTS OFF AT ST VINCENTS AND THEN WENT BACK IN IN THE PROCESS OF GOING BACK
IN NO CAME DOWN AND BY THE TIME GOT THERE THEY HAD ALREADY COMPLETELY TOTALLY YOU KNOW IT WAS COLLAPSED JUST WENT BACK IN GOT LIKE ANOTHER SIX SEVEN EIGHT PEOPLE OUT HAD THEM IN THE FRONT SEAT OF THE VEHICLE HAD ONE GUY RIDING ON THE HOOD OF THE TRUCK GOT THEM TO ST VINCENTS DUMPED THEM

ADAMS
CUIT THERE KNOW ITS IIITTY WORD TO BUTT
THATS JUST WHAT IT WAS JUST GET THEM IN AND GET THEM OUT DIDNT TAKE NO NAMES OR NOTHING EXCEPT FOR THE ORIGINAL FIRST ONE THE BURN PATIENT THERE WAS JUST NO TIME TO BE FILLING OUT PAPERWORK OR ANYTHING ELSE
WENT BACK IN AGAIN AFTERWARDS LOOKING FOR MY PARTNER LOOKING FOR CARLOS LILLO AND HES GONE NOW FOUND MY PARTNER ABOUT FOUR FIVE HOURS LATER AND WENT OVER TO WHERE THEY HAD ANOTHER TRIAGE AREA ON WEST SIDE HIGHWAY AND BELIEVE IT WAS VESEY BY THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE WAS CHECKED OUT IN THE AMBULANCE OVER THERE AND WAS FINE CAME BACK OUT AND ABOUT
FIVE HOURS LATER WENT TO MOUNT SINAI HOSPITAL WHERE THEY KEPT ME FOR LIKE FOUR HOURS DID TESTS HAD BRUISES ON MY KNEES MY SHOULDER WAS HURT KILLING ME CONSTANT COUGH AND THATS IT
WHEN YOU FIRST GOT THERE YOU PARKED YOUR VEHICLE UP ON
VESEY
ON CHURCH AND VESEY
YES
IT WAS AT THAT POINT ROUGHLY THAT THE
SECOND TOWER GOT HIT RIGHT AS YOU PULLED UP INITIALLY WHICH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE FIRST ONE

ADAMS
YES WHEN YOU FIRST GOT TO THE CENIE
THE SECOND TOWER GOT HIT LEARNED BELIEVE AS WE WERE UNDER THE MIDTOWN TUNNEL
OH OKAY ALL RIGHT
IT WAS ABOUT 911 OR SOMETHING 912 THE
SECOND ONE THE SECOND PLANE HIT
OKAY WHEN YOU GOT OVER HERE INTO CHURCH AND
VESEY AND FULTON ANY OTHER EMS UNITS OVER THERE
YES WE HAD THE MEDICS THEY FOLLOWED US
FORGOT TO MENTION THAT THEY FOLLOWED US FROM
ELMHURST HOSPITAL BOTH WENT
49 VICTOR 49 VICTOR
OKAY
WE GOT THE JOBS TOGETHER AND WE
YES
CARLOS LILLO WHOS NOW GONE WE BOTH FOLLOWED EACH OTHER IN ALL THE WAY THROUGH FROM ELMHURST RIGHT INTO DOWNTOWN WHEN WE GOT OFF AT VESEY AND CHURCH WE PARKED THE VEHICLES RIGHT THERE AS FAR AS OTHER VEHICLES AT THE TIME THINK THERE WAS LIKE
PRIVATE AMBULANCE COMPANY THERE NUMEROUS FIRE TRUCKS REALLY DIDNT SEE ANY OTHER PEOPLE
ANY EMS OFFICERS AROUND THAT YOU RECOGNIZED IN THE AREA

ADAMS
YES THERE WA CAPTAIN OVER THERE THERE
WAS BRUCE MEDJUCK HE WAS THERE HES NICE
GOOD PEOPLE
DO YOU REMEMBER THE CAPTAINS NAME
OKAY
HER FIRST WORDS OUT OF HER MOUTH WERE WHERES YOUR TRIAGE TAGS WHERES YOUR TRIAGE TAGS THERE
WERE PEOPLE WALKING AROUND WITH THEIR GREEN TAGS ON AND JUST LOOKED AT HER AND SAID ARE YOU KIDDING ME
SAID THESE PEOPLE SHOULD BE JUST GETTING OUT OF HERE GET OUT OF THE SITE THE BUILDINGS DIDNT COME DOWN YET BUT IT WAS STILL DEBRIS AND EVERYTHING ELSE COMING DOWN IN THE AREA FROM THE PLANE AND FUEL SO WE JUST GRABBED OUR FIRST PATIENT
THE BURN PATIENT
THE BURN PATIENT RIGHT THAT WAS THE FIRST
ONE THAT WE GRABBED WITH HER FRIEND THAT WALKED DOWN THE 83 84 FLIGHTS FEEL THEYRE GOING TO FIND LOT OF PEOPLE WITH TRIAGE TAGS ON WITH GREENS ON THEM THAT BECAUSE OF SO CALLED PEOPLE FOLLOWING PROTOCOL THAT WAS BASICALLY MADE FOR THINK JUST LIKE REGULAR PLANE CRASH SOMEWHERE IN FIELD SOMEWHERE IN THE OCEAN
GUY

ADAMS
BUT DONT KNOW LIKE SAID YOURE GOING TO FIND LOT OF PEOPLE DEAD WITH GREEN TRIAGE TAGS AROUND THEIR
NECK
AFTER YOU GOT THE BURN PATIENT TO ST VINCENTS DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT ROUTE YOU CAME BACK TO
THE SCENE ON
YES BROADWAY
YOU CAME DOWN BROADWAY
SHOT DOWN BROADWAY YES DOWN REGULAR
DO YOU REMEMBER WHERE YOU CAME WEST BACK INTO
YES IM NOT SURE EXACTLY DID SOME
TO GET YOU KNOW LIKE WENT UP ONE BLOCK AND DOWN ANOTHER JUST TO GET BACK TO THE SAME SITE
AGAIN
BACK TO FULTON AND CHURCH
YES
THATS WHEN THE FIRST BUILDING CAME DOWN YES
RIGHT AS YOU GOT BACK DOWN THERE
ABOUT FIVE MINUTES LATER WHEN WE STARTED
TREATING SOME OTHER PEOPLE THERE WAS ONE PERSON THAT SOUNDED LIKE SHE WAS HAVING AN MI BECAUSE SHE HAD
BROADWAY
THE SITE
FENAGLING

ADAMS
WALKED IT WA AN ELDERLY WOMAN SHE HAD WALKED DOWN 80 SOME FLIGHTS ALSO WE HAD JUST PUT HER ON THE STRETCHER ACTUALLY AND THATS WHEN PEOPLE LOOKED UP AND STARTED SCREAMING AND WE LOOKED UP AND THATS WHEN THE FIRST ONE CAME DOWN WE PULLED THE STRETCHER AS
FAR AS WE COULD WITH HER ON IT YOU KNOW GET HER OUT OF THE WAY THEN WE FOUND OUT LATER THOUGH THAT SHE
WAS ALL RIGHT SHE GOT UP OUT OF THE STRETCHER ALSO SHE SEEN GOD GUESS SEEN THE LIGHT
SO AFTER THE FIRST COLLAPSE YOU TOOK ANOTHER LOAD OF PATIENTS UP TO ST VINCENTS
YES
DID YOU COME BACK THE SAME WAY DOWN BROADWAY
AGAIN
CHIEF
TO
ONE JUST CAME DOWN HE ASKED ME TO PULL OVER TO THE SIDE HE WAS SETTING UP TRIAGE IT WAS LIKE FIVE BLOCKS AWAY HE HAD THREE AMBULANCES AT THE SIDE
SAID HOW MANY PATIENTS YOU GOT HE GOES ONE SO
KIND OF CURSED HIM OUT AND SAID WHAT ARE YOU NUTS AND JUST DROVE RIGHT BACK IN
DO YOU REMEMBER WHERE ON BROADWAY THAT WAS
THE SAME WAY AGAIN YES WAS STOPPED BY FORGOT TO MENTION THAT TOO BUT HE ASKED ME
THIS IS THE THIRD TIME IM GOING IN THE SECOND

ADAMS
NO HAVE RIO IDEA
DO YOU REMEMBER WHO THE CHIEF WAS
SOME YOUNG GUY IM NOT SURE
WHEN YOU GOT OVER TO WEST AND VESEY ANY IDEA
WHAT TIME THAT WAS THAT WAS AFTER THE SECOND YES THAT WAS ABOUT AN HOUR AFTER THAT
BECAUSE WAS LOOKING AROUND FOR MY PARTNERS
ABOUT AN HOUR AFTER THE SECOND TOWER CAME
DOWN
YES THEN WAS JUST PHYSICALLY EXHAUSTED AND HAD PROBLEMS SEEING COUGHING MY KNEES WERE KILLING ME
OKAY ANYTHING ELSE YOUD LIKE TO ADD
NO IVE PRETTY MUCH SAID EVERYTHING THANK
YOU
LIEUTENANT RADENBERG THANK YOU THE TIME IS NOW 0659 HOURS AND THE INTERVIEW IS CONCLUDED
10
File No. 9110182
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER WILLIAM QUICK
   Interview Date:  November 1, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
W. QUICK
          MR. McCOURT:  The date is November 1, 2001.
     My name is Tom McCourt, Investigator, New York
     City Fire Department.  I'm conducting an interview
     along with Murray Murad, Investigator, New York
     City Fire Department.  We are interviewing
     Firefighter William Quick.
     Q.   Mr. Quick, just identify yourself please.
     A.   Firefighter Quick, Ladder 134, badge number
12123.
     Q.   Can you describe the events that happened on
September 11, 2001.
     A.   September 11, 2001 started with for me
putting my children on a school bus at 8:30 in the
morning.  After that, I walked into my house.  I was
getting a box of tank top Fire Department shirts to
bring to the fire house from my volleyball tournament.
I was driving in my car towards Queens.  I heard that a
plane hit the World Trade Center.  With that, me being
a firefighter through and through, I just started
heading towards the World Trade Center.  I'm one of
these guys that always carries his gear in his car and
a fire extinguisher, just in case of an emergency.
          As I got on the Van Wyck and as I got up to
about the Grand Central Parkway, I met the NYPD and I
2
W. QUICK
followed NYPD all the way into Manhattan on their tail,
as fast as I could.  I drove with NYPD and met up with
another madman ESU truck and he got me down to Church
and Vesey Street, where I parked right on Church and
Vesey.  Right behind I think was Engine 21.  I'm not
even sure.  I'm not too sure.  They were parked right
on the corner there.
     Q.   What was the scene when you got there?
     A.   When I got there the buildings were still on
fire.  As soon as I parked my car and got out it was
mass hysteria.  There were people running every
direction imaginable, screaming and yelling.  People
were running past me with blackened smoke faces and
people just running with terror in their eyes.  No
coordination or anything going on down there, anything
like that.  I started donning my fire fighting gear
that I had in the car.
          With that Lieutenant Eddie Datri, from squad
one, came running up the street and he was getting
dressed while I'm getting dressed.  He looked at me --
     Q.   He was off duty?
     A.   I think he was off duty too.  I think he must
have just came from the fire house because he was still
in uniform.  He looked at me and he said Billy, can I
3
W. QUICK
put my sneakers in your car.  I said yes.  He said all
right.  I will meet you up on the fire floor.  I said I
will be there.  That's the last I saw of Eddie D'Atri.
He ran from Vesey to Church right between, I think,
building four and five, right there.  That would be
this building here.  This is the fire building, right,
yes, this is the fire building.  I was parked here on
Church and Vesey and he ran down this way and of course
the building is right here so I'm sure he ran right
between these two buildings.
     Q.   Which buildings?
     A.   Between four.
          MR. McCOURT:  Between four and two.
     A.   And five, but he ran between four and five.
I'm sure he ran to the closest building, knowing him.
He was a great firefighter.  With that he left me and I
donned all my gear.  I started going across Church
Street and when I went across Church Street, I saw the
door open on building 5 and a police officer yelled to
me.  He said I need help, I have people trapped down in
the subway.  They won't move.  Like that.  So I was
like all right, I'm here to help.  You know.
          I think this man saved my life really.
     Q.   You went down there?
4
W. QUICK
     A.   I didn't go down into the subway.  I went in,
and as soon as you go in this entrance, there is like
either four or five escalators, I can't recollect,
right there.  What it was was all these people were
bunched on the escalator.  They all had darkened faces,
smoke, bleeding, injuries, but they were in mass
hysteria.  They were like --
     Q.   Where were they coming from, do you have any
idea?
     A.   What I think this policeman did is, I think,
he took them from the north tower, maybe the north
tower or the south tower or what have you because of
falling debris and I think he huddled them into this
building and walked them through the subway.  Because
they all had blackened faces and that's why I feel they
were from the building.  So what I did is when I got to
the top of the escalator, you know, I have been in a
rescue company.  I'm pretty quick to adapt to
situations like this.  I just yelled out really loud
Fire Department.  All of a sudden they all stopped and
looked up at me.
     Q.   Took command of the situation?
     A.   Right, and I just said there are ambulances
outside to take care of you.  Just walk out these doors
5
W. QUICK
and go to your left and go towards Vesey Street.  When
I ran in, I saw like, you know, two or three ambulances
as I was running in.  So I just --  but the cop, he
said to me I can't get these people to move.  I said
all right.  With that they all started moving.
          I said look, you lead them out.  So the cop
led them out and they kept on going.  There was like
around 50, 60 people easy.  I looked at every one of
their faces as they went by.  They were all blackened,
bleeding, with different injuries, and so they all got
out and all of a sudden I looked down at the bottom of
the escalator and there was a guy there, an older
gentleman.  I said pal, come on, let's go, you got to
get going.  All of a sudden the guy looked up at me,
and he was really bleeding profusely from the head.  So
I ran down the escalator stairs, I grabbed the back of
his belt and I ran him up the stairs.  Now I got back
outside.  He was the last one.
          There were ambulances there.  These people
just I think, scurried, I don't even think that they
went to the ambulance.  I carried the guy to the
ambulances and said here you go, to the Fire Department
EMT.  I said you will be all right.  I turned around
and when I started running along --
6
W. QUICK
     Q.   Where were the ambulances parked, do you
know?
     A.   The ambulances were parked like on --
     Q.   By your car?
     A.   Yes, by Church and Vesey.  Yes, there were
police cars and an emergency service truck right there,
a couple of police cars.  The ambulances were right
there.  When I started to run back, all of a sudden I
heard the rumble.  Now all of a sudden I see people
running towards me.  I said all right, maybe part of
the plane fell off in the building or a section.  I had
no idea that the whole building was coming down.  So
what happened was there was by Fifth Street, there was
like a doorway.  It wasn't really a doorway.  It was
just like an I beam.  These I beams -- this is four and
this is five building.  These I beams are right here.
This is where I stood for the first blast and the
entranceway was a little further up from the subway.
          I stood here and with that, gray smoke came
and all of a sudden, black smoke came.  When the black
smoke came it was such high heat that I had to get down
on one knee.  The heat was so intense that I laid on my
stomach.  I laid on my stomach.  At this time I was
laying on my stomach, my head was hiding inside my coat
7
W. QUICK
and I was saying to myself, you have been on the job 20
years.  You have been through every tough fire in every
situation.  You have survived.  You know what to do.
Just hang in there.  You know, I'm breathing inside my
coat, breathing inside my shirt and my T-shirt.  I'm
just, you are out in the middle of the street, just
stay alive.
          With that, someone steps on me and the guy
said "Who's that."  I said Fire Department.  The guy
said:  "I think I'm burnt."  I said pal, I can't even
see you.  I said just stay next to me until the smoke
rises.  I will see if I can take care of you.  It took
a good ten minutes.  It was a beautiful clear day.  I
explained this to other firemen, like I was in a
bedroom with a mattress fire.  That's how intense the
smoke was.  And for me to hide inside my coat and not
be able to breathe is pretty intense.  The high heat.
This guy thought he was burned.
     Q.   Did he stay with you?
     A.   Yes, he did, yes yes.  He was a Fire
Department EMT.  Then after a good ten minutes, the
smoke lifted where you could see each other.  It was
just snowing out from the dust and the soot and
everything like that.  This guy had 3 inches of hot
8
W. QUICK
soot on top of him.  So did I.  I stood up and brushed
my eyes off and got all the stuff out of my mouth.  He
started shaking.  He was wearing a short sleeve shirt.
     Q.   He didn't have a -- he probably didn't have
his jacket on?
     A.   He didn't have a jacket on.  The EMTs -- you
know, it was a crystal clear day.  I brushed off his
arms and everything and he kept looking at his arms and
he said: "Oh, man, my arms are so warm."  From what I
could see it doesn't look like any burns.  Maybe you
have like a sunburn or something like that.  I said
"Are you all right."  He said "Yeah".  I said are you
okay to walk and everything.  He said "Yes".  He just
left.  I never saw him again.  He went on his way.
          After that I stood there.  I looked around
and it was like the night of the living dead.  It was
like it was snowing out still.  Everyone had the
thousand mile stare on their eyes, like coming out from
where they hid, walking across Church Street and just
looking.  I had full fire fighting gear and I stepped
out and I just looked around.  Then I walked across
Church Street from the fire building and looked up at
the building and saw that it was still burning.  So I
was like, all right, I don't think I have to go into
9
W. QUICK
the building because I got a feeling there are more
people in the street hurt from the collapse.
          So I started my search down Church Street,
checking all the vehicles.  They were all wrecked with
debris on top of them, everything like that.
          MR. McCOURT:  Continuing the interview with
     firefighter Quick.
     A.   At this time I walked across Church Street.
I saw that the building was still burning and I felt it
was my need to stay in the street and look for victims
from the first collapse.  As I went down the street, I
checked out every vehicle.
     Q.   Describe the terrain --
     A.   The condition of the street, everything was
covered with 3 to 5 inches of soot.  Debris in the
street, it was everywhere.  Papers, things from the
office building.  Further down towards Liberty, you
could see parts of the building and everything like
that, but I didn't get down there yet, by the
Millennium Hotel.  I wanted to make a diligent search
of the area.
     Q.   Did you find a lot of people?
     A.   I kept zigzagging back and forth and checked
out all emergency vehicles on the street.  I kept
10
W. QUICK
looking on the Church Street side of the -- between
four and five building and kept walking down and looked
between four and five and I didn't see any people.
People started coming out and looking like what has
happened just now.  Everything like that.  They were
all emergency workers and some were workers from
buildings and everything like that.  In fact, there
were two guys that came out, and there was an engine
parked probably on Dey Street or something like that,
and there was an ambulance on fire.
          So these two civilians started -- you know,
to grab a hose to put it out.  I walked off and
searched the ambulance that was on fire and looked
around.  I looked up at the building and I was like,
you know, the first one collapsed, maybe the second one
could collapse.
          I said listen guys, forget this ambulance.
It's in the middle of the street.  It's not a
priority.  I know you mean well.  I said just look for
victims laying in the street.  They put down the hose.
I said just look around for people.  Everyone had this
look of disbelief on their faces.
     Q.   Did you see the second building?
     A.   I could see the second building still
11
W. QUICK
burning.
     Q.   The other one, it was totally gone?
     A.   Totally gone.  The smoke cleared up, just
smoke laying over the rubble, over the ruins.  I kept
walking down.  I kept zigzagging on the street, kept
going back and forth.  That way I wouldn't miss anybody
across the street or on the other side.  I was like, I
would say I met those two guys on Church Street and I
met maybe another three or four people on Church Street
as I was walking down.
     Q.   That was it?
     A.   That was it.  People coming out of the
woodwork, just looking, you know.  I kept walking back
and forth, like I said, making searches.  I made it all
the way down to the Millennium Hotel where I just got
in front of the Millennium Hotel.  When I got in front
of the Millennium Hotel, all of a sudden I had my back
to the towers.  All of a sudden I heard the rumble
again.  This time, I figured, I just started running up
the steps of the Millennium Hotel.  And all the windows
were taken out on the bottom.
     Q.   They were already out, right?
     A.   They were already out.  What it was was a
men's clothing store in there.  I remembered the old
12
W. QUICK
football thing.  You know, if you are getting chased by
a guy, don't look back because it wastes time.  So I
was just like I'm not looking back, I'm just running.
I had surgery on my left knee, so I'm still a little
injured.  I'm still not hundred percent running.  So I
just kept running, running, running, and dove into a
building.  I looked at the building and there was two
gigantic pillars in the building.  I went right behind
a pillar and as soon as I went behind the pillar,
darkness set in again.
     Q.   Same scenario?
     A.   Same scenario.  This time I'm in the building
all by myself.  I am in there and pulled my coat up and
get behind the pillar.  Covered, same thing.  Having a
talk with myself.  Come on, you can survive.  You know,
hang in there.  Breathe, breathe in your coat, breathe
here.  I'm coughing a little bit.  This time --
     Q.   Did you feel that intense heat this time too?
     A.   I didn't feel the intense heat, but this time
the smoke lasted longer.  Maybe because I was inside
the building or what have you, but the smoke lasted
more than ten minutes and I was down on the floor.  I
would say at least 15 minutes.  Like that.  I kept
looking at my watch, like how long can I breathe and
13
W. QUICK
everything else like that.  I kept going for breaths in
the armpit of my arm and breathing in there and
breathing through my hood.
          The smoke finally cleared.  When the smoke
finally cleared where I could see stuff around me, I
walked out to the steps and it was still charged, still
smoke.  All of a sudden a guy came up to me, I think he
was a fire patrol, because he had a red helmet on.  He
said "Who are you? "  I said Billy Quick.  He said "I
have heard of you.  I will stay with you.  I have a
good chance of staying alive with you."  So I was like
all right.  Stay with me.  I stood on the steps of the
Millennium Hotel for 25 minutes because the smoke was
so heavy and it took so long to get out, for it to get
out of the street and everything.
          From the steps of the Millennium Hotel, the
wreckage that I saw was right across.  These are the
steps, that's the handrail and this is the wreckage
that I saw.  Famous wreckage there.
     Q.   That's all that was left?
     A.   That's all that was left.
     Q.   Pile of rubble on top.
     A.   There was heavy smoke all through this area.
I just stood there.  I then, like, I was like oh, if I
14
W. QUICK
go in the pile and start searching for people and they
send another plane I can't move out there, I'm a
sitting duck.  That's why I waited on the steps for 25
minutes.  In that 25 minutes I overlooked everything.
Same thing, you know, people just coming out of the
woodwork very slowly, very cautiously.  You know,
looking around, looking for people.
          Finally after that, I remember looking at my
watch.  It was like 12 o'clock.  So I guess I stood on
the steps a little longer than what it really was.  It
was 11 o'clock.  It was like the top of the hour.  I
set off and walked across the street.  I walked on all
these ruins, all the way to Liberty Street and I came
back to Church.  In the middle of Church, all of a
sudden a black fireman from 10 engine came walking up.
This guy had the thousand mile stare.  He was just like
-- I said, how you doing.  He just, he couldn't say
anything.  I said all right, listen, stop, open up your
coat, okay, open up your bunker pants, okay, do you
know where your company is?  He just shook his head.  I
go all right.  I was like, all right.  I said from
here, do you know where your fire house is?  He said
"Yes".  I said I want you to go to your fire house and
just stay there.  That's all I want you to do.  He was
15
W. QUICK
a young guy.  He was black and I could tell from his
helmet that he was pretty new but he wasn't a proby.
That was the last I saw of him.
          So then I just went from -- I stayed on the
Church side and I went from building four and I
searched in building four and was going into offices
looking for people.  The building started -- was on
fire, and the building just started getting engulfed in
flames.  I was making searches just as the fires were
starting.
     Q.   Where were you in the building?
     A.   First, second, third floor.  I made it up
through the rubbish into the building.  I started
looking for people in there too.  The place was so
vast.  I figured I would just stay on Church and just
work that area.  Go back from four to five.
     Q.   Did you find anybody?
     A.   Didn't find anybody.  Not in the buildings.
Not in the middle of these two buildings.  I got to
five building and I went inside and yelled for people.
No people at all.  I kept walking back.  I finally left
about 6, 6:30 that night.  Just like totally
exhausted.  My car was parked here, Church and Vesey.
My car got totaled.  It got wrecked.  Windows were
16
W. QUICK
smashed out of it, the front grille was all smashed.
My insurance company totaled it.  They were like that's
it.  So I lost my vehicle.
     Q.   Did you come across anybody after that time
while you were, you know, for those couple of hours --
     A.   I didn't come across any civilians, any
victims, any body parts.
Q. -- any supervisors or anybody else?
A. No--
Q. Independent pretty much?
A. Independently just going around searching. I
was the first one on this pile looking for victims.  I
know that for a fact, because I was the only one
walking out there.  Then all of a sudden ESU cops came
and they started towards the outskirts like that.  Then
after that when I left them, I just walked out and I
said I bet nobody searched these buildings.  That's
when I went in the building and I started searching
four and five.
          I had been through a lot and it was pretty
late.  After hours of being there I just sat down.  I
had been through the mill here.  I said I'm on
vacation.  So I guess I will head home now.  I called
my wife from inside.  There were other people inside
17
W. QUICK
the clothing store with me at the Liberty hotel there,
Liberty plaza.  Millennium Hotel.  The security guard,
he was like do you guys want to call home, tell them
you are all right.  I says yes, please.  I got in touch
with my wife and I said I'm okay.
          From there I just worked nine days straight
down there.  That's --
     Q.   Did you touch base with your officer at 134
at all?
     A.   I came back and I told him I was down there
for the collapse.  In fact on my cell phone I called my
wife saying listen, I'm going in, there was a plane
hit.  I have to go in.  She goes you are on vacation.
I says yes, well, that's the way it is.  That policeman
saved my life.  The one that came out and said I need
help here.  I said I'm here to help.  I don't care who
it is.  That was a big factor right there.  I would
have been around the corner in this area too, going
towards the building, just like every other man.
That's the way it is gentlemen.  I hope your news is
good news.  I hope that helps you a little.
          MR. McCOURT:  Time is 8:45.  Concluding this
     interview.  For the record the interview started
     at 8:20.  Thank you very much.
18
File No. 9110183
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
          EMT ORLANDO MARTINEZ
   Interview Date:  November 1, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
O. MARTINEZ
          MR. DUN:  Today is November 1, 2001.  The
     time is 740 hours.  My name is Richard Dun from
     the New York City Fire Department.
     Q.   Working with?
     A.   Fabiola Quevedo from the New York City Fire
Department.
     Q.   We are conducting an interview with?
     A.   EMT Orlando Martinez, Battalion 4.
     Q.   Shield?
     A.   2815 shield number.
     Q.   In your own words, can you describe the
events leading up to the events of September 11, 2001?
     A.   Early morning, about 8:40, I was parked down
at Church and Barclay, regular normal routine, getting
our breakfast.  While inside the deli a few minutes
later, there was a large explosion.  We went outside,
the building shook we were in, looked up and we saw the
top half of the World Trade Center on fire.
          My partner ran to the vehicle with me and as
we were running he called over the air for an explosion
at the World Trade Center.  I'm not sure if it was the
first transmission, but it was 30 seconds afterwards.
We were a block away.
     Q.   What was your unit designation?
2
O. MARTINEZ
     A.   Unit 01 Adam.
     Q.   Tour 2?
     A.   Yes, that's our regular unit.  We got in the
vehicle.  We drove one block to Church and Vesey in
front of World Trade Center 5, in between 5 and 4,
right on the corner.  We opened the doors up.  As soon
as we opened the doors up we got overwhelmed by
patients just coming over to us for help.  People were
bleeding, tripping, minor injuries, some major, we had
some second degree burns run up to us initially.
          We continued to call for back up.  About 4 or
5 minutes later, we finally got the first back up; that
was the medics.
     Q.   When you first pulled up was there a lot of
debris on the ground, what was the scene like?
     A.   No, no debris.  Not where we were at.  We
were parked on Church and Vesey.  Later on there was a
lot of debris, but most of the debris was, I think
inside the courtyard of the World Trade Center, not so
much on Church and Vesey, not yet anyway.
     Q.   Was there a lot of chaos and panic at the
time?
     A.   Oh, yes.
     Q.   People were running --
3
O. MARTINEZ
     A.   Well, they were running towards us, asking us
for help, asking us for help, asking us where to go.  A
police officer came up to us in plain clothes and told
patients in the ambulance -- we were packing the
ambulance, we couldn't kick anybody out.  Usually we
have a triage outside sitting on the sidewalk.  We just
couldn't stop everybody.  He told people in the
ambulance it was a plane accident.  It's not a
terrorist attack.  Once he said that, a few minutes
later the second plane hit.
          After that everybody -- they didn't believe
him any more.  Some people jumped out of the ambulance,
some stood inside.  Once the second plane hit, the
shrapnel from either the plane or the building started
hitting the top of the bus and the area around us.
Anybody who was near the ambulance ran inside the
ambulance and ducked for cover.
          We closed the doors.  People inside the
ambulance were screaming.  We were trying to calm them
down, telling them to relax, including my partner.
     Q.   What was his name?
     A.   EMT Frank Puma.
          He was calm though.  For the most part.  We
did our best.  About a minute later I told Frank we
4
O. MARTINEZ
have to get out of here.  It's not safe to be on this
corner.  So I jumped out of the back, went to the
drivers seat and put the vehicle in reverse and went
forward down Vesey Street towards Beekman Hospital.
          We had a second degree burn patient with
respiratory problems, so we needed to get him out of
there.  For our safety and to just transport at least,
the busload of patients.
     Q.   At this time, both buildings were still
standing?
     A.   Oh, yes.  Once we started taking off, I guess
30 feet in front of us, there was a lady on the ground
by the curb and she was just waving her arms.  That's
all she could wave.  Her legs were crushed.  Apparently
she got hit by part of the landing gear, one of the
tires of the airplane.  There was a large tire next to
her.
          The person who was next to her, I guess
worked with her, said something hit her.  It may have
been the landing gear.  It was a large piece of metal
that was so sharp it slit her whole back open,
buttocks.  Her legs were exposed, bones.  I told Frank,
jump out of the back of the bus, get the stretcher.  So
we took the second degree burn patient out of the
5
O. MARTINEZ
stretcher, threw him on the bench.  We placed him on
the bench.  We took the stretcher out, took the long
board.
     Q.   In your words.
     A.   Yes.  We boarded her as fast as we could.
There was nowhere to grab her.  She was too slippery,
so I grabbed the hip bone.  That was exposed.  We just
kind of picked her up, put her on the long board and we
strapped her up, put her on the stretcher and took as
much flesh as we could.  It was just hanging all over
the place, put it between her legs.  Put her in the
ambulance and rushed her to Beekman.
          From there we dropped off the first seven or
eight patients.  Came out the ER after we dropped
everybody off.  Actually we dropped the first patient
off, the lady with the -- that got hit with the landing
gear.  When we got back to the ambulance a minute
later, it was empty, so I guess the doctors outside
took everybody out of the ambulance.  I don't know what
happened.
          Went back to the ambulance, there were
purses, wallets, people's personal belongings in the
back of the ambulance.  I grabbed everything I could,
go into the ER, dropped it off, told the nurses here's
6
O. MARTINEZ
everybody's belongings.  I guess they sorted it out.
          We cleaned as much as we could, whatever we
could on the long board, not the long board, the
stretcher.  So we just wiped it down.  No sheet.  Went
back over there.  Went back to -- we tried to go back
to Church and Vesey, we knew there were a lot of people
there, but we saw most of the ambulances going up, I
believe it was Barclay Street toward West, there was a
new staging area.
          Dispatch said to go to the staging area, so
we rediverted to the staging area.
     Q.   Buildings are still standing?
     A.   Still standing, yes.  Very swift, still
within half an hour, we had to be out there.  We
started going towards the staging area.  We got flagged
down by Hatzolahs.  They had critical patients by the
Church, so we rediverted one block and we treated a few
more people injured there.  Hatzolah had three busses,
so we let them take care of them.  They transported and
we went back to the staging area.
          We never made it there the first time.  We
attempted the second time.  We got there.  We parked on
Vesey and North End, with all the other ambulances.
Once we parked there, they told us stay by the bus and
7
O. MARTINEZ
wait for further instructions.  We stayed by the bus
and waited, and I realized that we had almost nothing
left in the ambulance.  We depleted most of our
resources.
          I told Frank stay with the bus.  I have to go
to the LSU, Allan Cruz.  It was half a block away.  I
said I will be back, don't worry.  He goes all right.
I went over to the LSU, got some water and some more
supplies, restocked the ambulance.  After I got all the
supplies I started walking back towards the ambulance
and dispatch on the radio goes everybody run north, the
building is leaning.  So I started running towards the
bus.  I didn't see him.  I said maybe he left already.
          So I ran this way towards Stuyvesant High
School on the right.  I went up Vesey, I made a right
towards Stuyvesant High School.  My partner Frank went
to the left towards the water.  He's a good swimmer.
I'm not.
          They said some people jumped into the water.
I'm not sure they did.  Anyway, I ran to the right.  He
ran to the left.  After that I didn't see him for two
hours after that, maybe an hour and a half.  I presumed
he didn't make it out of there.  He presumed I didn't
make it out of there.
8
O. MARTINEZ
     Q.   This is the first building collapsing?
     A.   Right.  There was an explosion and after we
started running, I was able to make it to Chambers and
West, where I only saw one EMT, EMT Vega.  She is new
here.  She was the only EMT I saw from the station and
with all the cops and everybody else running, rescue
workers.  I grabbed her and I said just stay with me.
We will try to get out of here.
          So we made it to Chambers and West, which is
about 4 blocks from Vesey.  We stopped, looked up,
waited a few seconds for further instructions.  The new
staging area was Chambers and West Street at that
time.  We waited there I guess about 10, 15 minutes.
That's when we heard the building collapse.  That's
when they told us to run again.
          We ran again, up north, as fast as we could.
We made it to the -- I made it to the St. Vincent's
garage, I think it's on Vestry.  I ran two marathons in
New York.  When you got to run, you run.
     Q.   (inaudible).
     A.   Yes, it is.  We made it up there.  Waited for
further instructions.  Nobody knew what was going on,
nobody knew where to go.  They told everybody stay out
of the World Trade Center area.  Don't go back in.
9
O. MARTINEZ
It's not safe.  So I was looking for my partner about
an hour and a half.  I still couldn't find him.  I
presumed he was missing.  He presumed I was missing.
An hour and a half later an ambulance comes full of
soot.  It's all covered in white and he is in the
driver's seat.
     Q.   Was that your vehicle?
     A.   My vehicle, my partner made it out.  I don't
know how he did it, but he did.  He was able to get
out.  He had one EMT on the right-hand side on the
passenger side of the ambulance, D'Angelis.  He was
off, he just came out of his shift, midnight, and I
guess jumped in the truck and he came down to help.
     Q.   Who was that?
     A.   Actually he came down in his personal vehicle
to the World Trade Center.  D'Angelis.  I forgot his
first name.  He came in his personal vehicle.  He drove
to the World Trade Center, parked it by the World Trade
and started helping out and he met Frank Puma there.
They both jumped in the vehicle and they drove up West
Street.  I met Frank by the St. Vincent's garage.
          After that we stood there for about, I guess
another half hour, 40 minutes.  Time is a little flaky,
man.  I can't really remember too much.  Everything
10
O. MARTINEZ
seemed like it went so fast.  I guess half an hour.  We
all convened, we all got together.  We met everybody we
could and then started calling the station.  Every time
we saw somebody, we would call the station and we
started making our list of who saw who.
          Half an hour later they told everybody the
building's leaning again.  Everybody run north.
Everybody got in their vehicles.  My vehicle was packed
with EMTs and paramedics in the back.  Like a can of
tuna in there.  We jumped in the vehicle and we just
gunned it to Chelsea Piers, the new staging area.  That
was the third one we went to.
     Q.   You are talking about the second building
collapse?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   The first building hit?
     A.   Right, the first building, it was already
collapsed and after I guess the second building, they
told us to start running again.  That's when we took
the ambulance to Chelsea Piers.  I'm almost positive.
I'm not sure.  So we are at Chelsea Piers.  We parked
there, just waited for further instructions.  We parked
the vehicle facing south, so I made a U turn.  Parked
by the pier facing south.  Went to the nearest officer
11
O. MARTINEZ
who was there.  The highest rank was a Lieutenant; no
chiefs, no captains.
     Q.   Who was that?
     A.   May have been.  It was a Lieutenant, I think
Miller.  I'm not sure that's his name.  I don't know if
you know him.  Went up to him, saying we are 01 Adam,
we are here.  He goes okay.  So we just stood by the
bus and we just waited.  We just walked up and down a
little bit, staying as close to the bus as we could and
started looking for our members, anybody we knew.
That's what everybody was doing, just looking for
somebody they knew.
          There were too many Maydays already.  We
couldn't get through on the radio.  People -- Mayday,
help, trapped, can't get out.
     Q.   But the radios were working?
     A.   The radios were working.  It was just very
hard to transmit.
     Q.   Anything else?  Any other people that you saw
down by the site, like officers, Chiefs, things like
that?
     A.   Chiefs.  I saw Apuzzo, Captain Apuzzo.  He
finally came with a van full of people.
     Q.   Was that during the collapse or after the
12
O. MARTINEZ
collapse?
     A.   That was at -- Chelsea Piers?  I believe it
was at Chelsea Piers.  It may have been after the
collapse.  It was probably.  That's about it.  Most of
the tour 2 I guess we saw there.  Some tour one came
over that worked the night before and were still
lingering around came over.  Tour 3 came a little bit
earlier.  They showed up.
          That's about it.  As far as names and who I
saw, there was a lot of people.  I can't remember
everybody.  That's basically it.
          MR. DUN:  At this time the interview is
     finished.  It's 755 hours.
13
File No. 9110184
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
            EMT GREGG BRADY
   Interview Date:  November 1, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
G. BRADY
          MR. DUN:  Today's date is November 1, 2001.
     The time is 10:20 a.m.  I am Richard Dun in the
     New York City Fire Department working with.
     Q.   Fabiola?
     A.   Quevedo, of the New York City Fire
Department.
     Q.   We are conducting an interview with --
     A.   Gregg Brady Battalion 4, EMT D.
     Q.   Gregg, in your own words and description
please describe the events of September 11, 2001 this
year.
     A.   Okay.  I reported to work normally as I do,
reported in at 8 a.m.  At the time of the first crash,
I was sitting in our office speaking with the ALS
coordinator of Division 1, Esther Coarse, when we heard
a loud bang, we both thought it was a sanitation truck,
either dropped something or they crashed.  Never
thinking it was a plane.
          At that time, we heard a lot of talking on
the radio and I got a call from Captain Mark Stone
saying to load up vehicle 849, a Suburban, and be
waiting for him downstairs.  As he arrived, we
proceeded down to the north tower of World Trade
Center.  As we were proceeding through the Battery Park
2
G. BRADY
tunnel, as we came out, we saw the second plane hit the
south tower.  At that time, traffic was very dense and
it was very hard to get through.
     Q.   Was it dense because there was debris on the
ground yet?
     A.   Yes, there was a lot of debris on the
ground.  There was a lot of people looking up,
watching, a lot of people not knowing what to do.
     Q.   Was it chaotic or anything like that?
     A.   Yes.  Very chaotic, people, they were
evacuating busses and stuff like that.  I managed to
make my way through and I parked vehicle 849 across the
street -- across from the south tower on the West Side
Highway.  At that time, me and Captain Stone met up
with Chief Gombo, and Chief Gombo and Captain Stone
proceeded on talking on what courses of action that we
should take.
          After meeting -- after their meeting, Captain
Stone proceeded to ask me to instruct 3 units to follow
us into the north tower's lobby and set up a triage
area.  At the time, as we were going through, it was
very chaotic.  A lot of jumpers.  Had a body laying
about 20 feet to my right.
     Q.   Were the radios working at that time?
3
G. BRADY
     A.   At that time radios were working, cell phones
we were having a lot of trouble with.  We proceeded
through a broken window that the Fire Department broke
to lead access into the south tower.  We proceeded to
set up a triage area.  At that time plans changed and
we transferred the triage area over to 7 World Trade
Center, in the lobby.
          From that time, I proceeded with Captain
Stone back into the south tower to meet up with Chief
Gombo again.  Chief Gombo proceeded outside, so we went
outside and I found myself standing underneath the
south tower.
          Exact place, I believe, was across the street
near a toll booth.  I remember a toll booth.  At that
time, as they were speaking we heard a loud rumble and
we look up and we saw that the south tower was coming
down.  We all turned around to go run and all we saw
was a building.  I pretty much thought I was dead.  I
didn't see anywhere else to run.  Although we saw a
bunch of firemen running into an underground parking
garage, so seeing that, I followed them into the
underground parking garage and huddled against the wall
waiting for the debris to come in.
     Q.   Was Captain Stone in --
4
G. BRADY
     A.   Yes, Captain Stone proceeded in.  At that
time, we lost each other.  After all the debris stopped
from coming in, I turned around and I couldn't even see
my hand in front of my face.  I had no clue where I
was, I was breathing a lot of dust and concrete dust.
It and was all globbing up in my mouth and I tried to
spit it out and a bunch of firefighters turned on
flashlights and started yelling come towards the
light.
          We found an exit, the way out.  We found an
exit, the way out.  We came out a side exit.  Came out
through a stairwell, a side exit of a stairwell on the
bottom floor.  Came around and proceeded around to the
front of the second building.  Actually --
     Q.   The first tower?
     A.   The first tower.  We were standing right over
here.
     Q.   The parking lot and the driveway is over
here.
     A.   There is an underground parking lot somewhere
over here, right?
     Q.   Right here.
     A.   Okay.  So we ran over here.
     Q.   You came out in the Financial Center?
5
G. BRADY
     A.   Yes, we ran underneath 2 World Financial
Center and we came out in front.  I don't know how we
came out.  There must have been a side exit out.  When
we came out in front it was just as dark as it was out
there.  You know, we came outside and I thought -- I
didn't even know we were outside it was just as dark as
it was inside.
          From there, at that time I still lost Captain
Stone, I hadn't seen him.  I met up with Chief
Carrasquillo.  I met up with him outside.  I know him
from being Chief Ianarelli's aide.  I met up with him.
We proceeded to 3 World Financial Center, the American
Express building and we -- they set up a plan of
action.  They set up a triage area in that lobby.
          Plans changed again.  I met up with -- I saw
Captain Stone in that lobby.  They moved the triage
area to -- I'm not sure what the building is called.
     Q.   North End Avenue?
     A.   North End Avenue and Vesey Street, there is a
building right on the corner.  At that time we
proceeded into the middle of West Street directly
underneath the north tower.  At that time, I had a very
tight feeling in my stomach, just experiencing what I
went through with 2 World Trade Center, being that
6
G. BRADY
close.  I didn't feel at ease at all.
          We were standing underneath and Captain Stone
was speaking again.  We heard -- I heard 3 loud
explosions.  I look up and the north tower is coming
down now, 1 World Trade Center.
     Q.   Did you see any fire Chiefs or anybody like
that?
     A.   I saw two fire Chiefs.  I don't recall their
names.  I saw two fire Chiefs, Chief Basile, Captain
Stone and I don't recall who else was over there.  We
were standing in a circle in the middle of West
Street.  They were talking about what was going on.
          At that time, when I heard the 3 loud
explosions, I started running west on Vesey Street
towards the water.  At that time, I couldn't run fast
enough.  The debris caught up with me, knocked my
helmet off.  I tumbled and then eventually I started
running again.  I made it behind a building on North
End Avenue.  I set up a triage area in that corner
building and at that time I started treating patients.
          I was standing around and I saw a whole bunch
of patients coming in.  I started treating -- I do
remember treating a 3 star Chief from the Fire
Department.  He was on a backboard and we put oxygen on
7
G. BRADY
him, we are bringing in equipment.  They were setting
up ambulances outside to get them out.  Was treating
regular pedestrians, regular civilians.
     Q.   Was there a lot of chaos at that time?
     A.   A lot of chaos.  Inside the building was
Chief Gombo, Chief Pascale, Chief Basile, Captain Stone
and a Lieutenant that I'm not sure -- I don't recall
his name, from EMS.  They were talking over a strategy
of what else was going to happen, what they should do.
At that time I left and I started treating patients
again.
          After that, I left with Captain Stone to the
West Side -- we left to go to the West Side Highway.
I'm not exactly sure why or --
     Q.   Did you happen to go north or south?
     A.   We went north on the West Side Highway, after
they talked about what strategy.  We started walking
towards Chelsea Piers, because they set up a triage
area up there.  From what I remember, Captain Stone was
injured during the second tower coming down, and we met
up with Chief Randy Hirth and Lieutenant Grace
Cacciola, and Captain Stone was transported to Bellevue
for an x-ray on his shoulder.  After he was released,
we returned to Battalion 8 for about 20 minutes and we
8
G. BRADY
proceeded back down to Ground Zero.
          After that, we were -- I'm not sure.  I
believe we went up to Chelsea Piers and we started --
     Q.   With Chief Hirth?
     A.   With Chief Hirth, Grace Cacciola and Captain
Mark Stone.
     Q.   So Mark came back?
     A.   Yes, Mark came back.
     Q.   You all went back to Chelsea Piers and that's
where you stayed the rest of the tour or the remainder?
     A.   We stayed up there for maybe I would say
maybe half an hour, 40 minutes, then we proceeded back
down to West and Chambers where they set up the command
post for EMS, where Captain Stone met up with Chief
Basile again, Chief Carrasquillo, Chief Pascale and
Chief McCracken.  They started laying out the plan for
--
     Q.   Long term operations?
     A.   Yes.  For long term operations and from there
I met up with Chief Steffens.  At that time I was
acting as his aide because Chief Ianarelli is out on
medical at this moment.  We were instructed to head up
to Chelsea Piers and Chief Steffens was to take command
of Chelsea Piers.  At that time, I acted as his aide,
9
G. BRADY
recovering information as well.
     Q.   Okay.  So that's --
     A.   That's basically my experience.
          MR. DUN:  Okay.  This concludes the
     interview.  The time is 1030 hours.
10
File No. 9110185
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER DANIEL LYNCH
   Interview Date:  October 31, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
D. LYNCH
          MR. TAMBASCO:  I'm Mike Tambasco with the
     World Trade Center Task Force.  We are in the main
     conference room on the fourth floor at Metrotech
     in BITS.  The time is 1632 hours.
     Q.   The subject of the interview today is?
     A.   Firefighter Daniel Lynch, assigned to Ladder
company 7.  I'm presently detailed to the Fire
Commissioner's office as an aide to the Fire
Commissioner.
     Q.   Would you be good enough to just tell us your
story right from the beginning.
     A.   On the morning of September 11, I was on my
way to the medical office.  I was not on duty that
day.  I live on Staten Island.  I was just about at the
Verrazano Bridge when I heard a radio report that there
was a fire at the World Trade Center.  I changed radio
stations to a news station, at which point I heard that
there was a plane crash and they were interviewing
civilians that had witnessed it.  There were several
different accounts; small plane, large plane, so on and
so forth.
          It became apparent that it was a large
plane.  By the time I got on to the Verrazano Bridge, I
certainly could see that there was a large fire going
2
D. LYNCH
on at the World Trade Center.  There was a large amount
of smoke coming from that area.  I was continuing on to
go to the medical office, which is at Fire Department
headquarters.
          At some point in the radio broadcast they had
mentioned that another plane had hit the other tower.
I could visualize that from where I was on the
Gowanus.  Traffic was starting to build up.  I got off
the Gowanus and was taking the side streets.  Along the
side streets I remember not only traffic being heavy,
but large amounts of people coming out of the subway
stations.  Everything seemed to be kind of quiet.  Kind
of an amazing thing.  I guess I imagined that it must
have been like it might have been years ago during war
time, you know.
          Obviously after the second plane hit it was
obvious to me and apparent to the news outlets that I
was listening to that this was some type of a
purposeful terrorist attack.  Sometime in that trip I
had heard over the radio that there was a total recall
of all Fire Department personnel.  I was on my way to
headquarters anyhow, so there wasn't anything different
that I would have done.  I can recall just getting to
the back of Metrotech.  There is a -- on Flatbush
3
D. LYNCH
Avenue.  A van in front of me stopped, a fire officer
got out of the van because I believe it was Engine
Company 236 was en route down Flatbush Avenue, towards
the Manhattan Bridge.  A fire officer waved the Engine
Company down and asked if they could wait for him to
get on while he parked his van.  They said they would
wait.  He parked his van behind Fire Department
headquarters, grabbed his gear and got on.
          I checked into it in the next day or two and
it was Lieutenant Edward D'Atri assigned to Squad one,
who was lost in the World Trade Center.  When I finally
got into the building I went upstairs to the 8th floor,
asked what to do, what we should be doing.  Basically
the only people that were left on the 8th floor were
some of the secretarial staff with the exception of
Mike Vecchi.  Mike was not aware of anything in
specific that we should be doing right now other than
let's sit and wait and find some direction as to what
might happen.
          A short while later, somebody had said that
the first building had collapsed and certainly was very
much a surprise to myself and anybody else that was
present.  When that building collapsed we had not heard
from any of the staff on the scene, anybody from Ray
4
D. LYNCH
Goldbach, the Commissioner's executive assistant, to
the Commissioner, to the First Deputy Commissioner.
Commissioner Fitzpatrick, Chief Ganci, Chief Nigro,
anybody that I could think of that we would have heard
from on the 8th floor they hadn't heard from yet.
          I had made a determination that we needed to
try to contact them in some fashion and I was in the
process of getting a list of Nextel phone numbers so we
could start to call them on the Nextel phone number.
We didn't have the Nextel available to us to just beep
them on the walkie talkie portion of the Nextel so I
wanted the phone numbers.
          In the process of procuring them, I ran into
a Firefighter Patrick Cleary, who works in the press
office.  He was going to go over to the scene.  Bear in
mind that both myself and Pat Cleary were dressed in
sneakers, shorts and T shirts.  He said -- he asked me
if we had any gloves around.  I found a couple of pairs
of work gloves in the Commissioner's office.  I asked
one of the secretaries up on the 8th floor if she could
try to call as many people on the Nextel list as
possible and has she got in contact or has anybody
contacted her to start to develop a list of those
people.  At least we would start with some type of
5
D. LYNCH
tracking point for senior staff, I guess was the
thought in my head.  Pat Cleary had in mind that he had
to track down Commissioner Gribbon, who was his direct
supervisor in the office of public information, who he
had also not heard from.
          We took the Commissioner's spare Suburban and
headed over towards the towards the site.  As we
crossed the Manhattan Bridge, there were numerous
people walking across the bridge, obviously had been
involved in the collapse of the first building.  Some
people with no shoes.  Some people with -- certainly
everybody was in disarray.
          We drove down along Bowery to Park Row South
and as we got closer to City Hall, it started to be the
development of the dust that was still floating
around.  We got to the end of City Hall Park.  There
was certainly some traffic problems, some increased
dust condition.  There was some firefighters in
different areas starting to muster up in the area and
head down towards the World Trade Center plaza.
          Traffic caused us to go north on Broadway to
Murray Street.  We attempted to get masks from several
different ambulance services and finally on the corner
of Murray Street and Broadway there was an ambulance
6
D. LYNCH
there that had a couple of extra masks for us.
          Just as we got the masks and were trying to
figure out what we were going to do next as far as head
in what direction, we started to hear a rumble that was
about a thousand times more intense than the sound of
the subway that runs underneath the ground, but
something similar to that.  Like I said, a thousand
times more intense.  With that, somebody came running
around the corner and I always make the comment that I
don't think his feet were touching the ground.  To me I
would assume it was a police officer.  He had a badge
around his neck.  He was holding a handkerchief over
his mouth and he was saying run run run, the building
is coming down.  There were some other people behind
him.  The dust cloud was right behind them.  We dove
back into the Suburban.  By the time we got the windows
rolled up and the doors closed there was already a dust
condition inside the vehicle and then it just was like
several minutes of I say black snow, because the debris
and the dust just kept coming down on us.
          We really had no idea what we were going to
do.  Even if I had decided to drive the vehicle, if I
knew that I was going straight up Broadway, then maybe
we could get further away from the building, but there
7
D. LYNCH
was a vehicle blocking me and I couldn't do that, so it
was just a matter of let's wait and see what happens.
Afterwards, several days later I asked Pat Cleary what
we did.  For the most part we were just like oh, shit
what are we going to do.
          When the dust settled, we got -- proceeded to
go down Murray Street across Church Street, across West
Street, sorry that's West Broadway.
     Q.   West Broadway?
     A.   I think at one of the intersections of West
Broadway possibly or possibly Greenwich Street, there
was a fire truck there and we came up with the idea
that maybe we could use some tools from the fire
truck.  It was Ladder 124's rig.
          We got off.  There wasn't much left on 124's
rig because they had obviously taken a good portion of
their own tools with them.  But we did take one or two
axes, there was a flashlight.  We took a Herst tool.
We took an oxygen bag and thermal imaging camera.
          At that point I also ran into a Firefighter
that I know from 4 Engine, who I believe was the MPO of
4 Engine that day.  His name was Bob Humphrey.  Bob was
rattled to say the least.  He mentioned that he thinks
his rig was crushed.  He thinks his guys were crushed.
8
D. LYNCH
He is not sure.  He didn't know where he was going.  I
just mentioned to him make sure that somebody knows
where you are, wherever you go make sure somebody knows
that that's where you are.
          We continued down in the Suburban down to
West Street.  When we got to West Street it was like a
movie type of scene.  There was about a foot half deep
of paper and dust and any movement created more of a
dust cloud.  The first people we came across were
several firefighters and Chiefs.  The one Chief was
Chief McNally, who I believe is a Deputy Chief.  He was
in the process of trying to set up a command post.  We
walked down further towards the site, which would be
Barclay or Vesey Street.  I think on the intersection
of Vesey Street and West Street I saw Chief Hayden, a
Deputy Chief from the First Division.  Chief Hayden was
aware of who I was because I know him, but certainly
was also obviously rattled.  Both of these two Chiefs
were covered with dust, so they were certainly part of
whatever happened.
          We decided to continue down to look for
anybody, the main mission being the senior staff,
although anybody that was found.  I had had the thermal
imaging camera.  I had looked around, there were fire
9
D. LYNCH
trucks crushed, fire trucks on fire, cars, trucks, not
all on fire, but several on fire, large pieces of
steel.  I guess some of the sheathing from the
building, I don't know if it's aluminum or what, but
other types of metal.  The foot bridge was down, which
I think was considered the north foot bridge.
          We had turned on the thermal imaging camera,
made a pass underneath some rigs, underneath the
walkway that was crushed down.  I can remember looking
under the walkway and seeing a crushed fire truck.  I
don't know what company it was, but the lights still
being on even though it was crushed down.
          At one point I ran into a firefighter -- a
Fire Lieutenant I think from Rescue 1.  Name I'm not
sure of.  At that point he had started to climb over
some rigs and go into another area underneath that foot
bridge and being that I didn't have any equipment at
that time, I thought it best that I hand off the
thermal imaging camera to him and go and try to procure
equipment if I was going to stick around the scene any
longer.
          I do recall somebody being, I think what it
might have been the top floor of 6 World Trade Center,
which was also looked like it was from a movie set the
10
D. LYNCH
way it was devastated.  From the top floor window,
which would be the northwest corner and I do believe
there was somebody with an apparatus making an attempt
to possibly get a ladder up to that person.  I don't
know what the end result of that was.
          When I walked back towards the corner of West
Street and Vesey Street, I saw Commissioner Gribbon and
Lieutenant McLaughlin, who also works in the Fire
Commissioner's office.  I proceeded to go inside what I
guess is 3 World Financial Center, the American Express
building, make a phone call on a pay phone to Fire
Department headquarters where I told them that I had
accounted for Commissioner Gribbon and Lieutenant
McLaughlin and I was also informed by them that
Commissioner Von Essen and Captain Goldbach were at the
quarters of 24 Engine.  I told the girl who answered
the phone, who was Sandy, to make sure that she reached
out to their wives and let them know that we had
accounted for them.
          I had also questioned them if they saw anyone
else, such as Commissioner Feehan, Chief Ganci, Chief
Nigro or Commissioner Fitzpatrick or Commissioner
Tierney.  They had said that they had seen them but
they weren't quite sure whether they saw them after
11
D. LYNCH
both buildings had come down or not.  I didn't make the
assumption that they were accounted for at that point.
          I was heading back up to Murray Street where
the Suburban was parked and at that time I think told
Lieutenant McLaughlin that I was going to go to 24
Engine and see what the boss was doing and see what he
needed.  At which point I walked back up to Murray
Street.  There were some more firefighters starting to
gather at that point.  Chief McNally was still there, I
think a Chief, Mark Ferran was there, several people,
Louis Garcia was there, Chief Garcia.  At that point I
said I'm going to go up to 24 Engine.  I got in the
vehicle and made my way up West Street to 24 Engine's
quarters.
          When I got to 24 Engine's quarters, the
Mayor's people were there.  The Fire Commissioner was
there and his executive assistant, Ray Goldbach.  They
were having a little bit of a meeting behind one of the
offices.  I acknowledged them through the glass
window.  When he came out, he asked me what was going
on.  I told him what I had known, what I had just been
previously said and that I had a vehicle here for him,
what did he want to do.  He said well, just stick
around, let's see what we are going to do.  There was a
12
D. LYNCH
brief press conference.
          We went from 24 Engine's quarters to the
Police Academy, where we started to set up a temporary
command post or a command center I should say.  Also
with us at that time were 2 fire Marshals, Fire Marshal
Mike Owney, who is now promoted to Lieutenant, and Rich
-- I'm not sure what Rich's last name is.  Somewhere
along the lines they had come across Commissioner Von
Essen and they had said to him if nobody is with you we
will stick with you and be secured and he agreed to
that and they did that.
          At the command center on the 6th floor of the
Police Academy, we had gotten some phones that we could
utilize and we were starting to do whatever we possibly
could as far as get information from the scene, get
information from headquarters, kind of regroup in a
way.
          There was many meetings that the Commissioner
and the Mayor had in and out of offices.  I guess at
one point the Governor showed up and some additional
press conferences.  I guess at one one point, some
additional staff came, such as some of the other
Commissioners' drivers and at one point when we first
got there, being that I was in the shorts and T-shirt
13
D. LYNCH
when I first dropped the boss off and found out where
we were and what we were doing, I told him that I was
going to go get a uniform, so I stopped by my own fire
house, which is Ladder company 7, a few blocks away
from the Police Academy and I got my bunker gear and
some work duty clothing.
          Then I also went to Engine 39 where we parked
the Commissioner's vehicle and I got my uniform and
proceeded back down to the Police Academy.  One thing
that I noticed when I was going to 39 Engine, which is
on 67 Street between Third and Lex, the New York City
blood bank is on 67 Street between First and Second and
there was a line all the way around the corner of
people to donate blood.  I felt that this thing had
just happened minutes ago and I was kind of amazed at
that, you know.
          We went back down to the command center.
Probably spent the next several hours going back and
forth from the site to the command center for several
different reasons.  The possibility of some recoveries,
to get information, to get some communication set up,
whether it was by cellphone or by 800 megahertz
radios.  Communications I know it was a difficult
situation in the beginning.
14
D. LYNCH
          I believe it was about 10 o'clock at night,
we were back down at the scene along with -- I can
remember Chief Fellini being there and the
Commissioner.  It seemed like they were trying to gear
up for whatever the tasks were going to be for the
overnight.  Lighting was an issue, we were getting some
lighting, heavy equipment was an issue.  That was
coming in.  I remember earlier in the day there was a
meeting and I don't recall exactly who was there or
where it was at, but we talked about how it was going
to get dark fast and we needed equipment.
          There were many issues about the amount of
people that were there and how we could control them
and the amount of apparatus that was there and how we
could control that and certainly seemed to be a
monumental task in the late hours of that day, but the
early stages of the whole operation.
          That's pretty much a good synopsis of the
first day.  I think by the time we finished up that
first day it was probably around 2 or 3 a.m.  By the
time we dropped the Commissioner off and tried to get
some semblance of what we needed to do from our
standpoint of view as the Commissioner's aides.  Picked
them up the following morning at 6 a.m. and that became
15
D. LYNCH
a routine for about seven days.  I think that's pretty
much it as far as that first day.
     Q.   Anything else you would like to add to it,
just --
     A.   The only thing it's something that I'm sure
many people have said and I just recall that those
first -- those first minutes from the time that sound
started, the rumbling started to occur and the dust
started to fall and then stopped to get gear and
equipment from the fire truck and then continue down to
West Street and getting there and seeing the crushed
fire trucks, crushed cars, vehicles on fire.  It was
like a movie set.
          It was amazing and the people that I did see
and I didn't see anybody that was hurt physically at
least serious.  But all the people I saw certainly were
rattled, understandably rattled, but because might not
have been able to get the answer that you wanted out of
them, you know, but understandably.
          As time went on we had heard of some of the
fatalities and we were hopeful in many cases about
certain people that unfortunately didn't pan out.  I
guess Father Judge and Commissioner Feehan and Chief
Ganci were the first three majors that came across and
16
D. LYNCH
what can we say about that, you know.  It was obvious
from early on to us that the toll on the Department,
whatever the numbers might have been at that time in
anybody's head, it was going to be heavy.  Certainly
knew that it was something that the Department, nobody
could have ever believed was happening.  Oh well.
          Before September 11, yes, yes, sure, that
will never happen.  After September 11 I think we all
know that anything can happen.
          MR. TAMBASCO:  All right then.  I thank you
     for your interview.  The interview concludes at
     1656 hours.
17
File No. 9110186
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
           EMT MALA HARRILAL
   Interview Date:  November 2, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
M. HARRILAL
          MR. CASTORINA:  Today is November 2, 2001.
     I'm Ron Castorina from the New York City Fire
     Department.  We are here at Battalion 31
     conducting an interview.
     Q.   With me is?
     A.   Richard Dun from the New York City Fire
Department.
     Q.   Your name, ma'am?
     A.   Mala Harrilal, Battalion 31.
     Q.   What is your rank?
     A.   EMT-D.
     Q.   The time now is 0540 hours.
          On September 11, 2001, on that particular
day, could you tell me the events that took place that
you remember?
     A.   Yes, about minutes to nine o'clock I heard on
the radio, a unit was saying that a plane just crashed
into the World Trade Center and both me and my partner
drove down by the water in Red Hook.  That's my
assigned area and you could see -- we saw the smoke.
There was a second plane circling the building and I
kept saying why is he so near the building?  Within
minutes, before even talking about it, he just like
slammed into the second building.
2
M. HARRILAL
          We got on the radio, called the dispatcher.
She said fine, we were assigned to the job.  Took the
Brooklyn Battery Tunnel.  We were stuck in the tunnel
for a couple of minutes and as we got out of the tunnel
on the West Side Highway, there were cars crumbled and
crushed all over.  There were body parts on the
street.  I saw something that looked like a helmet, but
it wasn't a helmet.  It was a head.
          We made the left, right on to Liberty Street,
where we saw the other units.  Within minutes there
were like Chiefs.  I saw Chief Grant, Chief McCracken,
and they were all setting up the staging area where
they told us, the command center in fact, where they
told to us move the busses and park.  Stood there
looking at the building burning, saw within 5 minutes,
I thought that like 16 people jumping off the building.
     Q.   Who were you with, who was your partner?
     A.   Frank Pastor.  At one point I couldn't take
it again, because I would keep yelling can we go help
them, can we go help them.  But he is like you can't,
because the scene wasn't safe.  So there was nothing we
could do.
     Q.   How far back from you from the scene, where
were you from the building?  Were you like a block
3
M. HARRILAL
away?
     A.   Like two blocks away, two blocks away, where
we were parked, so I can't even tell you where
exactly.  We were a little by Liberty State Park, to
the side.  I saw a couple of the crew members that I
knew on 31 David and some medics from Woodhull.  I told
my partner, I said if you need me I will be standing
right by my ambulance.
          As I turn around and I'm coming back, all I
heard was don't turn back, just run.  I look up, saw
the building coming towards you.  Keep running, I
couldn't see anything, I couldn't breathe.  I couldn't
see anything, just that jet sound.  Everybody was like
pulling people inside stores.  I just like -- while
running, stopped to help this EMT from Jersey, I think,
she fell down and broke her arm in like 3 places.
Picked her up like three times and kept running.
          Somebody pulled me into a store, pulled us
both into a store, some of those Hatzolah guys.  Got
into the store and just keep yelling, where is the
back, where is the back door, where is the back door.
There was no back door.  We look around, all you could
see was alcohol.  It was a liquor store.  At that point
in time, the debris got lighter.
4
M. HARRILAL
          Chief McCracken ended up coming in and yelled
get out of here, this is not a good place to stay. So
at that point, I was just getting out --
     Q.   Who were you with in the store, you and your
partner or --
     A.   No, my partner and I were split up.
     Q.   You were with some civilians?
     A.   Yes, mostly Hatzolah guys and civilians.
They gave us water.  It was just to wash your eyes and
keep running again.  We ran so far, I mean my last
resort was jumping into the water.  At that point in
time I think that's when we saw Chief Grant, Chief
McCracken and I ended up with my partner.  People were
just yelling, please help us.
     Q.   How many injuries were you seeing, the ones
that were running?
     A.   Mostly they couldn't breathe and their eyes.
The Hatzolah guys were running out with medics from
Maimonides, medics from New York Cornell that were
injured.  They had them on long boards and stretchers
and they were just running with them.  So when the
people started screaming, Chief Grant got -- Chief
Grant and Chief McCracken, they both got on the radio
and asked for boats.  Within 5 minutes boats were
5
M. HARRILAL
there.  Circle Line, New York Waterways, even tug boats
were there.
          At that point in time, we couldn't do
anything but help the people get on to the boats.  So
we first started with the kids, then the parents, then,
you know, basically got everybody off that area.  I
guess at that time it was just like us alone there, us
and the cops.  There were a lot of under cover cops, a
lot of detectives, and we kind of basically got out of
that area, because at one point they were talking the
building that we were standing by was burning, was --
fumes, gas fumes.
          So we got out there and that's where we met
everybody else from -- all the guys from the academy,
all the other Lieutenants.  They brought back our
ambulances.  Then we drove down -- further down near
the Battery Tunnel, I guess, to meet everybody else.
     Q.   This was the first collapse, correct?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Then what happened, then the second collapse
came, you weren't there for the second collapse?
     A.   No, no, it was the first collapse and by 2:00
we were dismissed from there.  Because we had -- when
we got back our ambulance, there was no equipment in
6
M. HARRILAL
the ambulances.  My ambulance was blown off, the
windows were blown out.  Even my cellphone was gone.
We had nothing.  We were totally wiped, covered.
     Q.   Initially when you were there and the first
building came down and you ran and all these events
took place, then somewhere in that time frame like an
hour later, the second building --
     A.   The second building came down.
     Q.   But you weren't involved with that part,
because you were already out of the area, you were by
the boat loading people?
     A.   Right, because we heard the explosion.  We
wasn't there.
Q. Right.
     A.   It was just like -- I think the second
building, I could be wrong, but the second building
that fell crumbled.  It's the first building that
fell.  It actually came down, so -- I really didn't
witness the second building at all.
          By 2:00 we were dismissed from the scene and
went to the Battalion.
     Q.   Were you injured in anyway or your breathing
--
     A.   I have asthma.  For the first week I was
7
M. HARRILAL
fine, the second week I started coughing.  By the end
of the second week I started wheezing.
     Q.   How were your eyes?
     A.   At first my glasses were messed up, I had to
go get new lenses and I have been taking the pump ever
since.
     Q.   How is your partner, your partner made it out
of there okay?
     A.   Yes.  He is fine.
     Q.   Anything else you can think of that you want
to add?
     A.   No, I felt -- I mean what was bothering me
the most is that that's what we are there to do, to
help people and at that point in time, there was no way
of helping anybody, but to help yourself, to run for
your life, and that's all I kept saying and praying,
Lord help me, I'm not ready to die yet.  I'm glad my
partner is safe.
          I saw Chief McCracken and Chief Grant.  They
were okay.  I don't know.  I'm glad to be alive.  So it
felt good, me going back Tuesday, because I wanted to
go back ever since, but there was really no time to go
and then at one point when I figured --  you know,
thinking about the smell of the place and everything, I
8
M. HARRILAL
might have a hard time with it.
          So I finally went back on Tuesday and it was
fine.  At least I knew I was there for 14 hours, 12
hours, 12 to 14 hours, to help people who needed to be
helped.
     Q.   Right, the other day?
     A.   Yes, last week.  So I felt much better.
          MR. CASTORINO:  Okay.  This concludes the
     interview.  The time now is 0550 hours.  Thank
     you.
9
File No. 9110187
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        PARAMEDIC EDGARD SUAREZ
   Interview Date:  November 2, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
E. SUAREZ 2
          MR. CASTORINA:  Today is November 2nd,
     2001.  The time now is 0625 hours.  I'm Ron
     Castorina, New York City Fire Department, at
     Battalion 31 conducting an interview.  With
     me is --
          MR. DUN:  Richard Dun, New York City
     Fire Department.
          MR. CASTORINA:  And your name, sir?
          PARAMEDIC SUAREZ:  Edgard Suarez.
          MR. CASTORINA:  What is your rank and
     title?
          PARAMEDIC SUAREZ:  Paramedic.
          MR. CASTORINA:  Paramedic?  Where are
     you assigned to?
          PARAMEDIC SUAREZ:  Battalion 31.
     Q.   On September 11th, 2001, what were you
assigned to that day?
     A.   Yes, I was.
     Q.   What unit were you assigned to?
     A.   I was working 31 Victor Tour 2.
     Q.   Can you tell me on that day the events
that took place that you remember?
     A.   I stayed for a double tour, and about
8:30 or 8:35 we were assigned to the World Trade
E. SUAREZ 3
Center.  When we got there --
     Q.   Who were you working with that day?
     A.   I was working with Paramedic
Cherrington, Andre Cherrington.
     Q.   Andre Cherrington?
     A.   Yes.
          We crossed the Brooklyn Bridge, and we
arrived at Broadway between Fulton and Cortlandt
Street.  We were sitting right in front of the
Millennium Hotel.
     Q.   At that point the first plane had hit?
     A.   That was right after the first plane
had hit.
     Q.   After the first plane had hit?
     A.   Yeah.  We hadn't seen the second
building on fire.
          We were triaging in that area.  There
were many people requesting ALS, so we were
triaging people, people having chest pains.
     Q.   This was in front of the Millennium
Hotel?
     A.   Right in front of the Millennium Hotel.
          People were coming to us with
lacerations, bleeding all over.  We were trying
E. SUAREZ 4
to do our best.  There was two firefighters
brought this guy with about 85 to 90 percent
burns, major burns, first degree and third degree
burns.  So we started taking care of this guy.
We started an IV on him.
          There was a female lieutenant that
wanted us to stay to take more patient with us.
This guy was in such severe respiratory distress.
     Q.   You had him on your ambulance?  You
were getting ready to transport him?
     A.   Yeah, he was on board.  He was ready to
transport.  So we decided to start moving.  We
were about one block away when the first building
collapsed.  People were running toward us,
banging the ambulance, "Open the ambulance."  We
just couldn't do it.
     Q.   Were you able to get out of there and
take the patient?
     A.   Yeah, we got out of there.  We were
pretty lucky.
     Q.   What hospital did you go to?
     A.   We went to New York Cornell Burn
Center.
     Q.   Then when you were done with the
E. SUAREZ 5
patient, did you return back to the scene?
     A.   Yeah, we went back.  We were assigned
to the West Side Highway where they had --
     Q.   At that point when you went back, had
the second building collapsed or first building
collapsed?
     A.   Yeah, the second building.
     Q.   Both buildings were collapsed already?
     A.   Yeah, we were listening to the news
when the second building collapsed.
     Q.   You went back there to triage?
     A.   Yeah, actually we were sitting on the
West Side Highway when we hear that there was
like a gas leak.  There was so much panic,
everybody running.  We were a couple feet away
from the ambulance.  So we actually left the
ambulance behind.  When we came back after
everything settled down, I guess it was.
     Q.   In was what, the second time when you
came back, you're talking about, the gas leak?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   You were down by where?
     A.   That was the West Side Highway.
     Q.   And where; do you remember?
E. SUAREZ 6
     A.   West Side and about Murray Street.
     Q.   Murray Street and the West Side
Highway?
A. Yes.
     Q.   There was a triage area there that was
set up?
     A.   Yeah.  Actually there was like a
staging area.  There was many ambulance, many PD
cars.  We were there waiting for hopefully going
to help somebody.  When the news came that it was
a gas leak, everybody started running.
     Q.   Everybody left their vehicles and left?
     A.   Yes, we actually left our vehicle
behind.  When we came back for it, it was gone.
     Q.   What happened?
     A.   We just couldn't find it.  Somebody
took it away or -- I don't know.
          Then we went to --
     Q.   You had left the keys in the ambulance
because of the staging area?
     A.   Yes.  I have the extra key, and the
other key was in the ignition.  My partner was
driving, so he left his key.
     Q.   Was the vehicle ever found later on?
E. SUAREZ 7
     A.   Yes, the vehicle showed up.
     Q.   Somebody must have just pulled it out
of the area?
     A.   Yes.  We saw it later that day like
seven, eight hours after.  They had it at the
morgue moving bodies.
          That's about it.
     Q.   Okay.  Anything you want to add?
     A.   No.
          MR. CASTORINA:  The time now is 0627
     hours.  This concludes the interview.  Thank
     you.

FILE NO 9110188
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT LAURA SIEBUHR
INTERVIEW DATE NOVEMBER 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

SIEBUHR
MR RADENBERG TODAY NOVEMBER 2ND 2001 IM PAUL RADENBERG OF THE FIRE
DEPARTMENT CITY OF NEW YORK CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH
EMT SIEBUHR LAURA SIEBUHR EMT 5478 BATTALION 45
MR RADENBERG THIS INTERVIEW IS BEING CONDUCTED AT EMS BATTALION 45 REGARDING THE EVENTS OF THE MORNING OF SEPTEMBER 11TH
2001
LAURA IF YOU WOULD BEGIN WITH WHEN YOU FIRST BECAME AWARE OF THE INCIDENT
OKAY MY PARTNER AND WERE ACTUALLY
GETTING COFFEE FIRST THING IN THE MORNING WE WERE WITHIN OUR 89 WHICH IS OUR CROSS STREET
LOCATION WE NOTICED THERE WAS FIRE IN THE DISTANCE FROM WHERE WE SIT IN OUR 89 WE HAVE WHOLE VIEW OF THE SKYLINE AND OBVIOUSLY ITS FAIRLY CLOSE
SO MY PARTNER SAID EXACTLY HOLY SHIT LAURA THATS THE TRADE CENTER ON FIRE TOLD
HIM TO SHUT UP NO WAY HE SAID WELL LETS TAKE CLOSER LOOK TO GET AWAY FROM ALL THE TREES AND EVERYTHING SO WE DROVE UP CLOSER MY

SIEBUHR
PARTNER PATRICK SAID ULI MY GOD LAURA THAT LI THE TRADE CENTER ON FIRE AND AGREED
HE CALLED CENTRAL AND SAID THIS IS 45 DAVID CENTRAL DID YOU KNOW THAT THE TRADE CENTER WAS ON FIRE EVERYTHING WAS COMPLETELY SILENT WOULD SAY FOR MAYBE GOOD 15 20 SECONDS EVERYTHING WAS JUST COMPLETELY SILENT THERE WAS NOTHING ON THE AIR WHICH WAS HIGHLY IRREGULAR BECAUSE THERES ALWAYS ACTIVITY GOING ON OVER THE AIR
REMEMBER THE SILENCE DONT REMEMBER WHO WAS DISPATCHING AT THE TIME BUT
THEY STARTED DISPATCHING UNITS OUT AND 45 DAVID WAS ONE OF THEM WHICH WAS MY UNIT THEY TOLD US
TO TRANSFER OVER TO CITYWIDE AND REPORT TO BELIEVE THE 59TH STREET BRIDGE WE WERE VERY
CLOSE AT THAT POINT WE WERE TOLD TO CONTINUE TO BELIEVE WEST AND VESEY OR CHURCH AND VESEY
IM NOT CLEAR HAVE NO REALLY WORKING KNOWLEDGE OF MANHATTAN
WE DID AS WE WERE TOLD AS WE WERE
GETTING CLOSER YOU COULD SEE THAT IT WAS JUST HORRIFIC SIGHT GOING OVER THAT BRIDGE ILL NEVER FORGET IT WAS BAD ACTUALLY DIDNT

SIEBUHR
REALLY KNOW TOO UUCLI WHEN WENT IN TO WORK BEING THAT HAD NEVER BEEN TO AN MCI BEFORE
WE SAW OTHER AMBULANCES ON THE OPPOSITE
SIDE OF THE BRIDGE TRYING TO GET THROUGH BUT FOR SOME REASON WE WERE FLYING AND WE WERE BYPASSING EVERYBODY DONT KNOW WHY DONT REMEMBER HOW BECAUSE THIS WAS SO MUCH TRAFFIC FOR SOME REASON WE JUST HAD STRAIGHT WAY
PEOPLE WERE JUST GETTING OUT OF OUR WAY SO QUICKLY THAT WE GOT THERE BELIEVE WITHIN
LESS THAN EIGHT MINUTES FROM WHERE WE WERE WHICH SHOULD HAVE TAKEN US LOT LONGER THAN THAT
GUESS BECAUSE AT THE LOCATION WHERE WE WERE
TRYING TO SEE WE WERE PRETTY CLOSE EVEN TO THE BRIDGE
WE GOT THERE AND THERE WAS LOT OF
PEOPLE RUNNING OUT OF THE BUILDING DIDNT SEE ANY OTHER AMBULANCE UNITS THERE OTHER THAN
HAZOLLAH DIDNT EVEN KNOW WHERE ANY MANHATTAN UNITS WERE GUESS THE THING HAD JUST HIT SO WITHIN THAT SPAN EVERYBODY WAS WITHIN TRAFFIC EVERYBODY WAS TRYING TO GET IN THERE ALL AT ONCE
MY PARTNER AND GOT OUT BEING THE OTHER UNIT WAS THERE HAZOLLAH WAS THERE WE WERE

SIEBUHR
IRTAKIRIG URTAKE FAST TRIAGE UTRIDERRICATLI THE ECORID TOWER THE NEXT TOWER OVER GET THEM CONFUSED TOWER ONE TOWER TWO DONT KNOW JUST EVERYTHING HAPPENED SO FAST
AS PEOPLE WERE COMING OUT OF THE FIRST TOWER THAT WAS HIT WE WERE BRINGING THEM OVER AND WE WERE TRIAGING THEM THOSE PEOPLE WERE PRETTY BAD WE WERE BASICALLY SECTIONING THEM OFF AND TAGGING THEM WHO GOES WHERE THE MOST CRITICAL AND THE LEAST CRITICAL
WE WOULD SECTION THEM OFF AND WE WERE PUTTING THEM ON BUSES NOT AMBULANCES BUT REGULAR
CITY BUSES SO THEY COULD TRANSPORT THEM OUT BECAUSE THERE WASNT ENOUGH UNITS THERE WE
COULDNT LEAVE BECAUSE THERE WAS TOO MANY PEOPLE PEOPLE WERE VERY VERY BAD VERY BAD
WAS SO GEARED TO WORKING ON THE PATIENTS AND TRYING TO FOCUS YOU DIDNT HAVE
TIME TO THINK YOU DID NOT HAVE TIME TO THINK
ABOUT ANYTHING PEOPLE WERE HURT SO BADLY REMEMBER JUST HEARING VERY LOW HUM GUESS
BECAUSE WAS FOCUSED ON WHAT WAS DOING WITH
THE PATIENTS
BUT DO REMEMBER HEARING VERY LOW

SIEBUHR
HUM IN THE BACKGROUND WHICH PEOPLE WILL PROBABLY TELL YOU DIFFERENT BUT THIS IS WHAT HEARD AND THEN JUST MASSIVE EXPLOSION AND THAT WAS LOUD BECAUSE WAS STANDING RIGHT UNDERNEATH IT WHEN THE SECOND PLANE HAD HIT
MY PARTNER RAN AND GRABBED ME BY MY ARM AND STARTED YELLING AT ME TO RUN SO HE WAS
ACTUALLY HOLDING ONTO ME AND MAKING ME RUN QUICKER STILL DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS HAPPENING
DIDNT KNOW IT WAS PLANE JUST THOUGHT IT WAS AN EXPLOSION FROM THE OTHER TOWER DIDNT
KNOW PLANE HAD HIT SO IM PRETTY MUCH OBLIVIOUS ON WHATS REALLY GOING ON AT THIS POINT
BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS HAPPENING SO FAST
WE RAN AND WE GOT MAYBE LESS THAN
QUARTER OF BLOCK LESS THAN HALF BLOCK
MAYBE DONT REALLY REMEMBER BUT REMEMBER
WE WERE STILL RIGHT THERE WITHIN MINUTES LATER
OVER THE RADIO OR SOMEBODY HAD SAID OH MY GOD THE PENTAGON GOT HIT AND THIS IS WAR WERE AT
WAR

SIEBUHR
YOU COULDNT BREATHE BECAUSE WHEN THE SECOND PLANE HIT ALL
THAT DEBRIS IT WAS LIKE CEMENT IT JUST FILLED
UP YOUR THROAT IT FILLED UP YOUR LUNGS YOU COULD NOT BREATHE YOU WERE ACTUALLY SPITTING
OUT HUGE PARTICLES IT WAS LIKE IT MANIFESTED ITSELF IN YOUR MOUTH BECAUSE IT WAS SO SMALL AND IT FILLED UP YOU COULDNT BREATHE IT WAS JUST CAKED IN YOUR THROAT
MY PARTNER SAYS ALL RIGHT LISTEN STAY WITH THIS UNIT MY UNIT WAS DIRECTLY IN
FRONT HE SAID STAY WITH THE UNIT AND IM GOING TO GO BACK
MAYBE WITHIN DONT KNOW REALLY TIME FRAME DONT KNOW TIME FRAME BUT THERE WAS COMMAND OR SOMEBODY HAD SAID THE UNITS HAD
TO START MOVING IT WASNT THAT LONG AFTER
WAS SITTING IN THE BACK OF ONE OF THE UNITS AND
DONT REMEMBER WHAT UNIT IT WAS
SAID YOU KNOW WHAT IM NOT GOING TO
GO WITH THESE UNITS IVE GOT TO GO BACK IVE

SIEBUHR
GOT TO FIND MY PARTNER ARID URTAKE SURE THAT LIE OKAY DIDNT REALLY FEEL THREATENED AT THIS
POINT SOME TIME HAD PASSED NOT MUCH BUT SOME TO WHERE WAS ABLE TO GAIN SOME COMPOSURE ABOUT MYSELF AND WANTED TO FIND MY PARTNER NEEDED
TO FIND HIM IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT THAT HAD
KNEW WHERE HE WAS
HIM AND
THING THAT
WHICH REALLY WISH KNEW WHO IT WAS HAVE NO IDEA WHO THIS PERSON WAS BUT
FIREFIGHTER STARTED RUNNING AND HE SAID THIS IS ANOTHER ONE HE ACTUALLY GRABBED MY ARM HE SAID OH MY GOD HONEY RUN
LOOKED UP AND IT LOOKED LIKE THE TOWER WAS LEANING WAS ALMOST UNDERNEATH IT SO IT ACTUALLY LOOKED LIKE IT WAS LEANING SO
YOU DIDNT KNOW WHICH WAY TO RUN YOU JUST SAW LOT OF FIREFIGHTERS AND POLICE AND EMS AND ALL OF THE MAJOR PEOPLE THAT WERE DOWN THERE TO TRY AND RECTIFY THE SITUATION BEFORE IT GOT ANY WORSE STARTED RUNNING AND DIDNT KNOW WHY NOT IN
MY WILDEST DREAMS DID EVER THINK THAT THIS WAS GOING TO COME DOWN
FIREFIGHTER
SO
STARTED WALKING BACK THE NEXT KNOW WAS JUST ABOUT THERE AND

SIEBUHR
SO LIE GRABBED MY ARM ARID LIE SAID HONEY RUN AND HE STARTED RUNNING WITH ME SAID OH MY GOD ARE WE GOING TO DIE HE SAID DONT KNOW JUST KEEP RUNNING THEN THE LOUD RUMBLE AND THEN THAT THING THAT MONSTER JUST STARTED COMING DOWN
THEY TEACH YOU IN THE ACADEMY ABOUT THE
FEELING OF IMPENDING DOOM PATIENT MIGHT FEEL HAVE NEVER HAD THAT FEELING UP UNTIL THAT DAY
KNEW THAT THIS WAS IT KNEW THAT THIS IS HOW
IM GOING OUT THE ONLY THING THAT RAN THROUGH MY MIND WAS OTHER THAN SAYING THE OUR FATHER
AS WAS RUNNING GOD PLEASE DONT LET THIS HURT THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO HURT JUST
GOD MAKE IT QUICK
WAS RUNNING AND THE FIREMAN HAD LET
MY ARM GO HE HAD GONE ONE WAY AND KEPT RUNNING REMEMBER THERE WAS BUILDING ON MY
LEFT HAND SIDE AND DONT REMEMBER WHAT BUILDING IT WAS REMEMBER NOT BEING ABLE TO
RUN VERY FAST BECAUSE OF FEAR AND MY RADIO AND MY HELMET WAS WEIGHING ME DOWN SO THREW OFF MY HELMET THREW MY RADIO WHICH WAS FOUND BY THE WAY IT WAS UNBELIEVABLE

SIEBUHR 10
REMEIRTBER COUTIDRI RUN THE FEAR WAS YOU COULD NOT RUN YOURE JUST
STRICKEN JUST REMEMBER JUST HEAT FELT THE HEAT AND THE SMOKE JUST EAT ME UP BUT RIGHT BEFORE IT DID THIS BUILDING TO MY LEFT
REMEMBER APPROACHING IT WANTING TO SAY WELL
IVE GOT TO GET SOME KIND OF COVER GOT SUCKED IN BY THAT HUGE CLOUD NOT SUCKED IN BUT
GUESS
ENVELOPED
YEAH THEN REALLY COULDNT BREATHE
AND PANIC AND DISORIENTATION
CAME UP TO THE BUILDING AND THE
DOORS THEY SLID OPEN FROM SIDE TO SIDE THEY WERE ELECTRIC THAT REMEMBER BECAUSE
COULDNT FIND THE HANDLE AND IM BANGING ON THE DOOR COULDNT BREATHE YOU JUST COULD NOT BREATHE WHATEVER YOU DID THERE WAS NOTHING TO DO TO GET AWAY FROM IT YOU JUST COULD NOT BREATHE
WAS BANGING ON THE DOOR AND SOMEBODY HAD GIRL OR WOMAN HAD GOT THE DOORS OPEN
FOR ME AND JUST KIND OF FELL IN ALL WANTED TO DO WAS JUST BREATHE GET MY LUNGS YOU KNOW

COUTLDRIT CATCH AIR
THEN GOT INTO THIS BUILDING PACED AND PACED AND PACED AND THATS ALL
WAS PACE WAS CRYING HIM BECAUSE
WAS SO WORRIED ABOUT MY PARTNER LOT WANTED NEEDED TO FIND
DIDNT KNOW ANYBODY DIDNT
SIEBUHR
11
AND DID
HAVE ANYBODY WITH ME WAS ALONE EXCEPT SOME OF THE PEOPLE IN THE BUILDING DIDNT KNOW IF WE WERE GOING TO GET HIT AGAIN IT WAS BAD IT
WAS REALLY REALLY BAD
DURING THAT TIME IN THE BUILDING
DIDNT KNOW THAT THE SECOND ONE HAD GONE DOWN HAD NO IDEA THE OTHER BUILDING DIDNT KNOW ABOUT HALF AN HOUR LATER WAS LOOKING OUTSIDE IT GOT TO THE POINT WHERE YOU COULD ACTUALLY SEE YOUR HAND IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE THINGS STARTED LIFTING
THE ONLY THING THAT HAD ON ME WAS MY
PHONE SO ALL IM TRYING TO DO IS CALL MY FAMILY AND TELL THEM GET IN YOUR CAR AND GO EAST
BECAUSE DIDNT KNOW JUST WANTED THEM TO GET OUT OF HARMS WAY YOU KNOW
THEN WANTED TO GO OUTSIDE AND SOME OF THE PEOPLE SAID MY GOD DONT GO OUT THERE

SIEBUHR 12
TI11 NEEDED TO FIND MY PARTNER WA VERY ADAMANT ABOUT IT AND ARROGANT WAS BECAUSE WAS PANICKING AND JUST DONT TOUCH ME JUST
LEAVE ME ALONE JUST LET ME THINK DIDNT HAVE MY RADIO ON ME HAD NO RADIO CONTACT AND
WAS FREAKING
SOME OLD WOMAN GAVE ME WET SCARF TO
PUT AROUND MY FACE AND WENT OUT WHICH
THOUGHT WAS VERY SWEET WENT OUT AND STARTED AGAIN HEADING BACK TO THE TRADE CENTER WASNT FAR MEAN WAS JUST NOT EVEN UP THE BLOCK
IT WAS NOT EVEN BLOCK THAT CAN REMEMBER
CANT EVEN RECALL WHAT BUILDING IT WAS CANT DONT KNOW WHICH ONE IT WAS
HAD GONE THERE REPEATEDLY AND TRIED TO FIND THIS BUILDING WAS IN WHEN DO THE TRADE CENTER AND DO MY OVERTIME THERE BECAUSE IVE BEEN BACK THERE TWICE WEEK EVERY WEEK DO THE OVERTIME AND STUFF AND CANT REMEMBER
STARTED MAKING MY WAY BACK TO THE TRADE CENTER WHEN GOT THERE SAW LOT OF
PEOPLE DIDNT HEAR ANYBODY TALKING THE ONLY THING HEARD WAS THOSE LOUD TONES THATS ALL
HEARD WAS THOSE TONES GUESS IT WAS THE

SIEBUHR 13
FIREMEN LOOKING FOR THEIR OWN THAT ALL HEARD WAS THOSE TONES AND ME LOOKING FOR MY
PATRICK
FIREMAN CAME OVER TO ME AND SAID
MAKE YOUR WAY BACK TO THE PEERS OR START GOING TO THE PEERS JUST GET OUT OF HERE WAS AT THE CORNER SO WASNT LIKE THERE WAS SO MUCH STUFF EVERYWHERE SO MUCH IT LOOKED LIKE ARMAGEDDON EVERYTHING WAS JUST GONE
PARTNER CALLING
WE STARTED MAKING OUR WAY BACK TO THE PIERS STILL DIDNT KNOW ANYBODY
THEY WERE ALL UNFAMILIAR FACES
ABOUT AN HOUR AND HALF TWO HOURS
LATER SEE MY CAPTAIN AND THERE WENT MY PROFESSIONALISM

SIEBUHR 14
FINALLY AFTER ABOUT AN HOUR AND HALF ALMOST TWO HOURS THAT CAN REMEMBER IN
FIREMANS JACKET AND AN SCBA ON HIS BACK AND HOOD THOUGHT SAW HIM THIS PERSON CAME
CLOSER AND THERE WENT MY PROFESSIONALISM AGAIN AND KNEW HE WAS ALIVE AND CLING HELD ON
TO HIM WAS SO RELIEVED THAT HE WAS ALIVE
EVEN NOW GET EMOTIONAL BECAUSE TO
LOSE HIM WOULD BE LOSING SUCH BIG PART OF MY LIFE BECAUSE SINCE GOT ON THIS JOB AND CAME TO
THIS BATTALION HE HAS TAUGHT ME EVERYTHING THAT NEED TO KNOW HE ALSO SAVED MY LIFE BY PUTTING
ME IN SOMEWHAT OF SAFE SPOT TO WHERE IF WASNT AT THE AMBULANCE AND HIM PULLING ME AND RUNNING WITH ME AFTER THE SECOND PLANE HIT AND
PUTTING ME IN SAFE PLACE PROBABLY WOULD HAVE
TIGHT

SIEBUHR
BEEN GONE ARID WOULD HAVE FOLLOWED WENT INTO THE BUILDING
15
HIM BECAU LIE
HERE IF IT
WOULD NOT BE WERENT FOR HIM AND HOLD LOT
PROBABLY
OF RESPECT FOR HIM AND LOVE HIM FOR IT BECAUSE HE LET ME GO
HOME TO MY DAUGHTER WHICH LOT OF PEOPLE DIDN
RIGHT
WE STARTED MAKING IT TO THE PIERS THE
CALVARY WAS THERE EVERYONE WAS THERE AND
GOT TO GO HOME THAT NIGHT
THATS ALL CAN REMEMBER
WHATS YOUR PARTNERS LAST NAME RICHIUSA
WHEN YOU FIRST GOT DOWN THERE TO THE
TRADE CENTER DO YOU REMEMBER SEEING ASIDE
YOU SAID THE HAZOLLAH AMBULANCE ANY OTHER KIND
OF EMS PERSONNEL
YES YOU KNOW WHAT IT WAS THERE WAS
LOT OF PEOPLE THERE REMEMBER NURSES BEING THERE REMEMBER DOCTORS BEING THERE
REMEMBER PEOPLE SAYING THAT THEY WERE NURSES AND DOCTORS REMEMBER PEOPLE SAYING THAT THEY WERE EMTS AND PARAMEDICS THAT WERE OFF DUTY

SIEBUHR 16
REMEIRTBER LOT OF UTRIUIIIFORUED PEOPLE WERE THERE LOT
FORGIVE ME AND COULD BE WRONG BUT THE ONLY OTHER AMBULANCE THAT SAW AT THAT
MOMENT WAS HAZOLLAH COULD BE WRONG BUT THATS WHAT REMEMBER
OKAY
REMEMBER PULLING UP AND THINKING
REMEMBER ACTUALLY THINKING MY GOD WE CAME FROM
QUEENS AND ALTHOUGH WE MADE IT HERE SO FAST WHERE THE HELL ARE THE MANHATTAN UNITS WHERE
REMEMBER SEEING FIRE TRUCKS LOT DONT REMEMBER SEEING FDNY
DONT REMEMBER COULD BE WRONG
ARE THEY
OF THEM BUT
AMBULANCES
BUT THATS WHAT REMEMBER
REMEMBER THINKING TO MYSELF WHERE ARE
HAZOLLAH AND HOW REMEMBER THAT DONT EVEN KNOW IF IM
PRONOUNCING IT RIGHT BUT JUST REMEMBER SEEING THE CURLS ON THE SIDE OF THEIR HEADS THINK
THEYRE HASIDIC YEAH
IM NOT CLEAR ON IT THEY WERE AWFULLY NICE THEY WERE SO NICE AND WE DID WORK
THEY AND JUST REMEMBER SEEING

SIEBUHR 17
TOGETHER BELIEVE IT EA FOUR OF THEM ARID PATRICK AND REMEMBER DIRECTING THE PEOPLE THAT WOULD COME OUT OF THE FIRST TOWER THAT WAS HIT THEY WERE SO BAD
MEAN PEOPLE DID NOT PEOPLE WERE COMING OUT AND DIDNT HAVE ANY HAIR ON THEIR
BODIES AND ON THEIR HEADS AND ON THEIR FACES REMEMBER FACIAL HAIR WAS SO SINGED OFF AND BADLY
BURNED AND THEM SAYING THAT THEY WERE SEVERAL FLOORS UNDERNEATH DONT REALLY KNOW HOW IT
WORKS WHEN PLANE HITS KNOW NOTHING ABOUT IT
BUT REMEMBER LOT OF SCREAMING AND
REMEMBER PEOPLE FALLING OUT OF THE BUILDINGS OR JUMPING REMEMBER SEEING IT REMEMBER JUST
LOT OF SMOKE LOT OF CRYING LOT OF PEOPLE GOING INTO SHOCK LOT OF TALK ABOUT ELEVATORS
INSIDE THE BUILDING
JUST REMEMBER PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT ELEVATORS THAT THEY WERENT WORKING OR THAT IT
FELL IT FELT LIKE IT FELL SEVERAL FLOORS AND HIT SPECIFIC FLOOR HARD AND PEOPLE WERE
COMPLAINING ABOUT BACK PAIN AND SKIN HANGING FROM THEIR BODIES AND BEING IN LOT OF PAIN LOT

SIEBUHR 18
OF PAIN EVERYBODY WA JU THERE WA LOT OF PAIN IT WAS VERY HEARTBREAKING
ME ONLY COMING OUT OF THE MONTHS TEN MONTHS KNEW NOTHING
ACADEMY NINE EXCEPT JUST ON THEM AND
KEEP BANDAGING THEM UP KEEP OXYGEN
PUT THEM ON WHERE THEY NEED TO GO NEXT IT WAS
FAST AND FURIOUS YOU DIDNT HAVE TIME TO THINK
THATS ALL REALLY CAN REMEMBER AND JUST FEELING VERY BADLY AND VERY SCARED NEVER IN MY WILDEST DREAMS EVER THINK THOSE BUILDINGS WOULD COME DOWN NEVER NEVER WHEN SAW MY PARTNER HE WAS BADLY HURT HE GOT STITCHED UP ON THE SCENE WITH LEATHERMAN TOOL NO LESS
HIS OWN TOOL
DOCTOR HE SAID HES NEVER DONE IT
WITH TOOL BUT THINK HE GOT 13 15 STITCHES SOME ON HIS BACK SOME ON HIS SHOULDER HE
DIDNT HAVE THE CORRECT TOOL TO DO IT WITH PAT
WHIPPED OUT HIS TOOL AND HE SAID WELL YOU CAN USE THIS HE ACTUALLY STARTED SEWING HIM UP WITHOUT ANYTHING JUST NEEDLE AND THREAD AND SHOWED HIM UP WITH HIS LEATHERMAN AND HE BLEW OUT HIS KNEE WHICH BELIEVE HE HAD TO GET SURGERY FOR

SIEBUHR 19
ARID TIIAT ALL CAN REALLY REUEURTBER
AND JUST BEING EXTREMELY HAPPY THAT WAS GOING HOME TO MY LITTLE GIRL AND ABLE TO TELL MY FAMILY
THAT WAS ALIVE BECAUSE MY MOM KNEW THAT WAS DOWN THERE AND MY SISTER ACTUALLY IN COLORADO
KNEW WAS THERE AND SAW IT ON TV AND KNEW WAS
THERE SO THEY KNEW THAT WAS GONE THEY
ACTUALLY THOUGHT WAS GONE WAS JUST HAPPY TO BE HOME
THATS THE BEST OF MY RECOLLECTION MOMENT TO MOMENT MEAN ITS ALSO TWO MONTHS
LATER
ALSO ACTUALLY WHAT DO REMEMBER ONE THING THAT NEGLECTED TO SAY THAT ON THE WAY THERE THERE WERE TWO PRIESTS THAT WERE BEGGING TO STOP US THEY WERE SAYING PLEASE TAKE US WITH YOU THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE DOWN THERE THAT NEED THEIR LAST RITES SO SAID GET IN AND WE TOOK THEM
WHETHER THATS AGAINST THE RULES OR NOT DONT KNOW BUT YOU KNOW WHAT THERE WERE PEOPLE DOWN THERE THAT NEEDED IT AND WHETHER THEY MADE IT OUT OF THERE ALIVE DONT KNOW HOPE THEY DID BUT THOUGHT THAT WAS

SIEBUHR 20
THE RIGHT THING TO DO MY PARTNER ARID BOTH AGREED ON IT
THREW THESE OLD MEN IN THREW THEM IN GET IN NOT EVEN
BASICALLY
THERE
THINKING
ANYTHING
GOING INTO JUST KNEW THAT IT WAS HUGE MCI
OF ANY KIND OF REPERCUSSIONS OF BECAUSE DIDNT KNOW WHAT WE WERE
DIDNT KNOW THAT IT WAS PLANE AT THAT POINT JUST KNEW THAT IT WAS BIG AND THAT THERE WERE
MORE THAN LIKELY HUNDREDS OF CASUALTIES BECAUSE OF WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE NOT KNOWING WHAT CAUSED IT
WE PICKED THEM UP AND WE BROUGHT THEM IN BECAUSE KNEW THAT THERE WERE GOING TO BE
PEOPLE THAT PERISHED IN WHATEVER HAPPENED AND WE DID WE PICKED THEM UP AND WE BROUGHT THEM
OVER THERE
WHATS YOUR 89 LOCATION
MY 89 IS OH GOD METROPOLITAN AND FOREST WHICH GIVES YOU COMPLETE VIEW OF THE
WHOLE SKYLINE RIGHT
YOURE NOT FAR AT ALL ITS LIKE AN ARMS LENGTH AWAY YOURE LOOKING AND YOURE

SIEBUHR 21
LIKE WOWYOU CAN EE THE WHOLE ENTIRE KYLINIE THATS BASICALLY ALL CAN REMEMBER
THAT DAY THAT DISGUSTING DAY
ANY OTHER THOUGHTS OR COMMENTS YOUD
LIKE TO ADD
WITH THAT SAID IM DONE
MR RADENBERG THE TIME IS NOW 0658 AND THE INTERVIEW IS CONCLUDED

FILE NO 9110189
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW CAPTAIN HOWARD SICKLES
INTERVIEW DATE NOVEMBER 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

SICKLES
MR RADENBERG TODAY NOVEMBER 2ND
2001 THE TIME IS NOW 0526 IM PAUL
RADENBERG OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT CITY OF NEW YORK CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH
CAPTAIN SICKLES CAPTAIN HOWARD SICKLES COMMANDING OFFICER OF EMS BATTALION 45
MR RADENBERG THIS INTERVIEW IS BEING CONDUCTED AT EMS BATTALION 45 REGARDING THE
EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001 CAPTAIN
ON THAT MORNING WAS ASSIGNED TO THE BATTALION BECAUSE DIDNT HAVE COMMAND VEHICLE WAS RUNNING THE AMBULANCE STATION AS
NORMALLY DO CALL WENT OUT AND SEE NOTIFICATION THAT THERE WAS PLANE INTO THE BUILDING AT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
WENT OUTSIDE THE TV WAS ON AND SAW THE DEVASTATION FROM THE FIRST PLANE HITTING
THE TOWER THAT WAS BROADCASTED ON CNN SENT MESSAGES TO HOWIE HAHN
LIEUTENANT HAHN HE WAS ON PATROL TO PICK ME UP AND WE STARTED OUT TO THE TRADE CENTER
CALLED THE TOUR COMMANDER TO LET HIM KNOW THAT WE

SICKLES
WERE GOING ARID DID LIE WANT TO GO TO WHAT LOCATION BECAUSE THEY WERE STAGING AMBULANCES AROUND THE CITY HE ADVISED ME TO GO DIRECTLY INTO THE SITE
ON ARRIVAL WE STAGED AT CHURCH AND WEST AND WALKED DOWN TO THE COMMAND POST WHICH WAS IN THE FIRST FLOOR OR THE LOBBY LEVEL OF THE NORTH TOWER OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER CHIEF GOMBO WAS THERE WITH ROSS TERRANOVA AND BELIEVE CHIEF KOWALCZYK WAS AT THAT POINT ALSO THERE
THINGS WERE LITTLE CONFUSING THEY WERE TRYING TO PUT AN OPERATION TOGETHER THE WINDOWS OF THE NORTH TOWER ON THE GROUND FLOOR WERE BLOWN OUT WERE BROKEN DONT KNOW IF
THEY WERE BLOWN OUT BUT THEY WERE MOST CERTAINLY BROKEN THERE WAS LOT OF GLASS THAT WAS
ACTUALLY HOW ENTERED WALKED THROUGH ONE OF THE WINDOWPANES OR WHERE THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN
WINDOW INTO THE BUILDING AND STARTED GOING THROUGH THE DOORS
SAW THERE WAS REALLY NO COMMAND POST SET UP IT WAS LITTLE HAPHAZARD COMMISSIONER
FEEHAN WAS IN THE LOBBY ASKED HIM IF THERE

SICKLES
WERE ANY SPARE COIRUUARID BOARDS AROUIID HE TOLD ME THERE SHOULD BE OUTSIDE ANY CHIEF CAR THAT
PULLS UP SHOULD HAVE ONE
WENT OUTSIDE BELIEVE IT WAS THE
DIVISION CAR WAS JUST ARRIVING TOLD HIM NEED HIS COMMAND BOARD AND HAD COMMISSIONER
FEEHANS PERMISSION GOT THE COMMAND BOARD FROM HIM
ACTUALLY AS EXITED THE BUILDING
THOUGHT SOMEBODY HIT ME FROM THE BACK TAPPED ME ON MY BACK TURNED AROUND AND DIDNT SEE
ANYTHING SOMEBODY POINTED TO MY FEET
LOOKED AND THERE WAS BODY ON THE FLOOR SO
APPARENTLY HES WHAT BRUSHED AGAINST ME HITTING ME IN THE BACK BECAUSE IT WASNT THERE IT WAS
BEHIND ME HAD JUST WALKED THERE SO KNEW THAT BODY FELL SO IM PRETTY LUCKY WASNT HIT THEN
WALKED OVER TO THE CHIEFS CAR GOT THE COMMAND BOARD WALKED BACK INTO THE
BUILDING AND CHIEF KOWALCZYK SAID LETS GO AND TOOK 49 HENRY WITH ME SO WE WOULD HAVE AN
AMBULANCE CREW THERE WITH US CHIEF KOWALCZYK SAID COME ON LETS GO WERE ALL OUT OF HERE

SICKLES
WERE GOING ACRO THE STREET
WE WENT ACROSS THE STREET AND WE SET UP
IN WHAT WOULD BE IM ASSUMING IS THREE WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER WE WERE IN THE GARAGE WE
WERE IN THE THROAT OF THE DRIVEWAY WE PUT UP THE COMMAND BOARD WE STARTED DRAWING THE
TOWERS PUTTING THIS ALL TOGETHER AND WE DECIDED TOLD HIM WE NEED TO PUT THIS ALL
ONTO ONE FREQUENCY BECAUSE CITYWIDES TOO CONGESTED AND WE NEED TO HAVE POINT TO POINT FREQUENCY AND DISPATCHER TO COME TO
WENT INSIDE SPOKE TO CHIEF DIGGS ON THE TELEPHONE TOLD HIM WHAT OUR NEEDS
WERE HE WAS LITTLE ARGUMENTATIVE HE DIDNT WANT TO DO IT BECAUSE OF THE HIGH CALL VOLUME IN MANHATTAN SOUTH SAID YOU CAN GIVE US ANY FREQUENCY MANHATTAN SOUTH WAS JUST
SUGGESTION
HE PUT ME ON HOLD SAID IM NOT
WAITING HERE ALL DAY LEFT SENT AN EMT BACK INSIDE TO CALL CHIEF DIGGS AND TO WAIT WE WERE AT COMMAND POST OPERATIONS WE STARTED TO SET THINGS UP
WE SENT CHIEF BROWN TO THE SOUTH SIDE

SICKLES
TO THE OUTTII TOWER TO EE WHAT WA GOING ON
THERE TO GIVE US REPORTED HE TOOK PACKAGE WHICH INCLUDED CAPTAIN DESHORE AND COUPLE OF
AMBULANCES AND SOME OF THEM WERE VOLUNTEERS AMBULANCE CREWS WERE SHOWING UP AT THE
COMMAND POST MAIMONIDES MEDICAL CENTER SHOWED UP WITH AN AMBULANCE WITH TRANSFER TRUCK OF THEIRS WITH COUPLE OF PARAMEDICS ON IT AND
SUPERVISOR WE SENT THEM BACK TO GO NORTH AND THEY ENDED UP NOT TAKING THE DIRECTION SAW THE AMBULANCE LATER ON AND IT WAS CRUSHED BUT THERE WAS NOBODY IN IT SO THAT WORKED OUT WELL BUT THEY DIDNT LISTEN AND THEY DIDNT TAKE DIRECTION
WE WERE AT THE COMMAND POST WE HAD
ASSIGNED LIEUTENANT MEDJUCK ALONG WITH CAPTAIN OLSZEWSKI WAS ON WEST AND BELIEVE AROUND CHURCH
STREET THERE ON WEST AND VESEY AT FIRST WEST
AND BARCLAY IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD DONT REMEMBER EXACTLY WHERE THEY WERE BUT THEY WERE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD ON THAT SIDE OF THE OPERATION
CHIEF BROWN WAS TO THE SOUTH WE HAD NOBODY ON TRINITY OR CHURCH THAT WAS AWARE OF

SICKLES
HE ACTUALLY MAY HAVE BEEN AROUND VE ARID TRINITY VESEY AND CHURCH DONT REMEMBER
THE EXACT LOCATION JUST KNOW HE WAS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE OPERATION WITH CAPTAIN OLSZEWSKI WE WERE TRYING TO DIVIDE IT UP AND GET EVERYBODY ASSETS IN ORDER THAT THEY CAN HANDLE CHIEF GOLDFARB WAS DOWN AT STAGING
WE HEARD RUMBLING WE THOUGHT IT WAS ANOTHER PLANE WE LOOKED UP AND YOU ACTUALLY
SAW THE TOWERS JUST STARTING TO ROLL DOWN AT YOU YOU SAW THE BUILDING PORTIONS COMING DOWN
STOOD THERE AND COULDNT MOVE MOVE COULDNT BELIEVE WHAT
JUST COULDNT
WAS LOOKING AT TURNED AROUND
COUPLE SECONDS LATER
AND STARTED TO GO YOU JUST SAW SEA OF
HUMANITY BEFORE THAT WE WERE AT THE COMMAND POST CHIEF NIGRO AND CHIEF GANCI WERE BEHIND
ME AND THEY JUST COULDNT BELIEVE THE HUMAN DEVASTATION OF WATCHING PEOPLE JUMPING OUT OF THE UPPER FLOORS THEY WERE HITTING THE GROUND AND BECAUSE OF THE FORCE OF HITTING THE GROUND THEY WOULD BREAK OPEN AND BLOOD WAS SPLATTERING AND BODY PARTS AND YOU COULD SEE THEM HITTING THE GROUND AND BOUNCING AND PARTS BOUNCING UP

MY
NOBODY COULD EVERYONE WAS SORT OF STANDING
SICKLES
THEY WERE LIKE ULI MY GOD CLI AND THEY COULDNT BELIEVE THE DEVASTATION
THERE IN LITTLE BIT OF AWE TRYING TO GET THIS
UNDER WAY AND JUST WATCHING PEOPLE JUMPING FOR THEIR LIFE
TO GO BACK TO WHERE WAS BEFORE
EVERYBODY WENT THROUGH THE BUILDING LIEUTENANT MOORE WAS IN FRONT OF ME THE BUILDING HAD
GRATING FOR WATER RUN OFF AS IT GOES DOWN SO IT DOESNT GO INTO THE GARAGE HE APPARENTLY
TRIPPED ON THAT GRATING AND FELL WAS RIGHT BEHIND HIM FELL OVER ROGER AND WE TUMBLED
MAYBE SOME 20 FEET INTO THIS GARAGE WE REALLY
DIDNT
BELIEVE THAT WAS THREE FINANCIAL CENTER THATS WHERE WE WERE JUST ACROSS THE
STREET IM NOT SURE IF IT WAS THREE OR TWO BECAUSE WE WERE DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM THE TOWER
IM NOT SURE WHICH ONE IS DIRECTLY ACROSS IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN TWO WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER IT WAS DIRECTLY ACROSS IT MAY HAVE BEEN TWO ITS HARD TO TELL FROM THIS
GET ANYWHERE
THAT WAS IN THREE FINANCIAL CENTER
MAP

SICKLES
RIGHT
DONT REMEMBER WHETHER IT WAS THE
AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING OR TWO BUT LOOKING AT IT MORE CLOSELY ITS PROBABLY TWO WORLD
FINANCIAL CENTER RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET
BECAUSE WE WERENT VERY CLOSE TO THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE SO WOULD TELL YOU IT WAS PROBABLY TWO WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER HAVE TO CHANGE THAT
BELIEVE THE GARAGE WAS TWO WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER
OKAY
SO WE WERE DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET
EVERYBODY RAN INTO THE BUILDING AND ROGER AND FELL OVER EACH OTHER WE MADE IT LIKE MAYBE 20
FEET INTO THE BUILDING
YOU JUST HEARD RUMBLING AND YOU HEARD
THINGS AND IT GOT VERY BLACK YOU COULDNT SEE
ANYTHING NOTHING THERE WAS NO LIGHT
COULDNT MOVE MY LEGS COULDNT MOVE MYSELF
REALLY THOUGHT AT ONE POINT WAS DEAD COULDNT SEE MY HAND COULDNT THINK OF
ANYTHING WAS IN NO PAIN JUST REALLY
THOUGHT WAS DEAD
IT WAS DARK YOU COULDNT HEAR

SICKLES 10
ANYTHING THERE WA RIO OUNID THERE WA NOTHING THERE WAS NO SOUND IN THE BACKGROUND THERE WAS NOTHING NO NOISE BEFOREHAND THERE WAS NOISE BECAUSE THERE WERE FIRE ALARMS GOING
OFF NOT FIRE ALARMS THE PASS ALARMS FROM THE SCBAS THEY WERE GOING OFF EARLY BECAUSE HAD SAID AT THE COMMAND POST CAN WE SHUT THOSE STUPID THINGS OFF THEY WERE GOING OFF EARLY IM SURE THEY WERE GOING OFF WHEN WE WERE RUNNING DOWN THE HILL
AFTER THE FIRST COLLAPSE IT WAS DARK IT WAS BLACK IT WAS JUST DEADLY SILENT
REALLY THOUGHT WAS DEAD STARTED TALKING TO
MYSELF AND THEN ROGER MOORE IN COUPLE OF SECONDS MOANS AND TELLS ME TO SHUT UP YOURE
NOT DEAD
SO STILL COULDNT MOVE AND WAS
TELLING HIM CANT MOVE CANT MOVE HES TELLING ME HE CANT MOVE COUPLE OF FIREMEN CAME BY AND DONT KNOW WHO THEY ARE
DIDNT KNOW WHO THEY WERE THEY LIFTED OFF WHAT LOOKED LIKE TO BE DESK LATER ON BECAUSE THEY SHOWED US WITH LIGHT THEY HAD HAND LIGHTS
WITH THEM AND IT LOOKED LIKE TO BE THE TOP OF

SICKLES 11
DESK THEY LIFTED THAT OFF OF ARID THEY MOVED SOME OTHER DEBRIS AND WAS ABLE TO GET UP
THEN THEY HELPED ROGER OUT THEY TOLD ME JUST GET OUT OF THE BUILDING AND WENT BACK
UP TOWARDS WEST STREET DIDNT GO INTO THE
BUILDING TOLD THEM THEY WERE COMING TO WEST STREET AND THEY WENT INTO THE BUILDING FURTHER
THEY FIGURED THEY WOULD COME OUT ON WHAT WOULD BE NORTH ROAD OR THINK ITS NORTH END THE BACK
END OF THE BUILDING THEY FIGURED THEY WOULD COME OUT ON NORTH END AND IT WOULD BE SAFER
WENT OUT STRAIGHT GOT OUT OF THE BUILDING AND YOU COULDNT WALK THERE WAS SO
MUCH DIRT DUST AND DEBRIS IT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS
SNOWING OUT IT
WAS SNOWING
WHAT WAS ONCE
PEOPLE STANDING THERE WAS NOTHING THERE WAS NOBODY IT WAS QUIET THE AREA WAS DEAD THERE WAS NO NOISE NO NOISE NOBODY AROUND NOTHING YOU COULDNT HEAR ANYTHING
WAS STILL FALLING THE ASH IT COULDNT BELIEVE WHAT SAW COMMAND POST WHERE THERE WERE 50
THERE WAS COMMUNICATIONS VAN FROM THE
FIRE DEPARTMENT AN OLD CHEVY VAN LOW TOP NOT ONE OF THE BIG RESCUE LOOKING COMMUNICATIONS

SICKLES 12
VEIIIC1E ARID IT WA JU DEAD THERE WA RIO
NOISE COMING OUT OF IT NOTHING EVERYTHING
INSIDE WAS GRAY EVERYTHING WAS COVERED THERE
WAS JUST NOTHING THERE WAS NO NOISE THERE WAS NO NOISE ON THE EMS RADIO THERE WAS NOTHING
IT WAS JUST DEAD SILENCE
GOT MY WITS ABOUT MYSELF AND TRIED
TO REMEMBER WHERE EVERYBODY WAS AND THEN WAS TRYING TO CALL PEOPLE ON THE RADIO AND THERE WAS
NO RESPONSE
FEW MINUTES LATER CHIEF GANCI CAME WALKING UP THE STREET AND HE TOLD ME TO GO NORTH
SAID WHERE ARE YOU GOING HE SAID IM GOING SOUTH TOLD HIM TO GO NORTH AND HE JUST
CONTINUED SOUTH HE SAID JUST GO NORTH STOOD THERE FOR COUPLE MORE
MINUTES HAD TO SORT OF GET MY WITS ABOUT ME STARTED CALLING PEOPLE ON THE RADIO GOT
BOBBY BROWN ON THE RADIO CHIEF BROWN ON THE RADIO AND HE WAS TELLING ME THAT HES OKAY HES
NOT INJURED BADLY THE BUILDING COLLAPSED AROUND HIM THEYRE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THEY WERE TOLD HIM TO GO SOUTH
GOT HOLD OF BRUCE MEDJUCK AND HE

SICKLES 13
SAID LIE WA OKAY COUTLDRIT GET ANYBODY EKE GOLDFARB CAME UP ON THE RADIO AND ASKED
WHAT WAS GOING ON SAID TO HIM THERE NOBODY AT THE COMMAND POST ITS JUST ME DONT KNOW WHERE ANYBODY IS OR WHETHER ANYBODY SURVIVED BECAUSE DIDNT KNOW WHAT WENT ON INSIDE THE BASEMENT OF THAT GARAGE
GOT ONTO MANHATTAN SOUTH BECAUSE WE ALREADY HAD THE FREQUENCY TOLD HIM WE HAD
MAJOR COLLAPSE AND THEY NEED TO START SENDING MORE UNITS SEND SOUTH THROUGH THE BROOKLYN
BATTERY TUNNEL AND SEND NORTH UNITS FROM THE
BRIDGE AND THEY REALLY SHOULDNT GO PAST CHAMBERS UNTIL THEY GET HERE TOLD THEM TWICE TWICE BECAUSE THE DEVASTATION IS JUST UNBELIEVABLE
BEFORE GOT ANYWHERE WAS WALKING WEST STREET JUST WANTED TO GET OUT OF THERE
AT THAT CERTAIN POINT GOLDFARB AT CHAMBERS FAR THE SECOND BUILDING
WAS WALKING TOWARDS
BEFORE COULD CAME DOWN
EVEN GET KNOW WHEN
WALKED UP WEST STREET JUST LITTLE BIT MAYBE
JUST PAST WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN VESEY
DIDNT GET THAT MUCH FURTHER THE SECOND
BUILDING CAME DOWN AND WAS PUSHED ACTUALLY
REALLY
UP

SICKLES
FLEW LIKE 40 FEET
WAS COVERED IN DEBRIS
TIME OH NO BEFORE THAT HAPPENED
MY EMTS PAT RICHIUSA SAW HIM ON THE STREET
AND HE TOLD ME HIS PARTNER WAS MISSING SAID GO WEST JUST GO NORTH AND LETS GET OUT OF
HERE AND WELL FIND HER WELL FIND WHERE
EVERYBODY IS AND HE DISAPPEARED
THEN WENT UP WEST STREET THE SECOND
COLLAPSE HAPPENED WAS KNOCKED DOWN WAS
COVERED IN DEBRIS
SCARED AGAIN NO FLASHLIGHT WITH ME WHATSOEVER
WAITED JUST SAT THERE GOT UP AFTER THE DEBRIS AND STARTED GOING NORTH WENT NORTH
GOT UP COUPLE OF BLOCKS MAYBE JUST PAST VESEY AND WENT TOWARDS THE WATER
SAW CHIEF CARRASQUILLO THERE AND WE WENT INTO THE RENAISSANCE HOTEL WE SET UP
TREATMENT AREA CHIEF GORNBO WAS IN THERE CHIEF
CARRASQUILLO CHIEF PASCALE WAS WHEEZING AWAY CHIEF KOWALCZYK BELIEVE WAS THERE WE WERE
JUST TRYING TO PUT THINGS TOGETHER
EVEN YELLED AT CHIEF GORNBO BECAUSE
NOBODY WAS LISTENING KNEW BOBBY BROWN WAS
AGAIN AGAIN DARK VERY
SECOND
SAW ONE OF
14

SICKLES 15
LIII UTRED KNEW WHERE LIE WAS ARID WE COUTIDRI FIND HIM KNEW WHERE BRUCE MEDJUCK WAS PRIOR TO THE COLLAPSES AND WE COULDNT FIND HIM NOBODY COULD TELL ME THAT THEY FOUND THEM
WE WERE OPERATING IN THERE CHIEF CASSANO WAS THERE WE HAD TO PUT HIM ON BACK BOARD WE SENT HIM OFF TO THE HOSPITAL BECAUSE
WE HAD NECK AND BACK PAIN WE MUST HAVE SENT ABOUT SIX OR EIGHT PEOPLE TO THE HOSPITAL FROM THAT POINT
THEN WE HAD TO EVACUATE BECAUSE
SAID THERE WAS MAJOR GAS LEAK IN THE AREA WE
WENT TO THE WATER SIDE WE WENT UP TO RIVER END WE WALKED UP TO RIVER TERRACE UP HERE SOMEWHERE PROBABLY CLOSER TO CHAMBERS THERES NURSING HOME OVER HERE OR SENIOR RESIDENCE WE WENT TO USE THAT WE COULDNT USE IT LOGISTICALLY
WE WENT INTO THE SCHOOL THEY STARTED
OPERATING IN STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL SO IT WAS AROUND CHAMBERS GUESS IT WAS CLOSER TO WARREN
THAN CHAMBERS THE NURSING HOME NORTH TERRACE OR RIVER TERRACE AND WE HAD TO LEAVE THERE
ACTUALLY THINK IT WAS NORTH END BECAUSE THEN WE WENT TO RIVER TERRACE AND WE HAD TO LEAVE
THEY

THERE
SICKLES 16
CHIEF CARRASQUILLO CHIEF PASCALE THEY JUST WENT NORTH THEY WENT AS FAR AS THE PIERS AND THATS HOW WE ENDED UP TAKING THE PIERS FOR THE OPERATION
WENT UP TO CHAMBERS AND FROM CHAMBERS AND WEST CHIEF PERUGGIA WAS THERE
ENDED UP IN THE COMMAND POST WITH CHIEF PERUGGIA CHIEF CRUTHERS AND FORGET THE OTHER CITYWIDE
TOUR COMMANDER BUTLER CHIEF BUTLER WORKED IN THE COMMAND POST WITH THEM
IT WAS EERIE BECAUSE THEY LOOKED LIKE
THEY GOT MAD AT ME WHEN THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT WHAT ASSETS THEY WOULD NEED BECAUSE THEY WERE
GOING TO GO INTO AN OEM MEETING AT POLICE
ACADEMY THEY WERE SENDING ANOTHER CHIEF DOWN
THERE TO GO AND LET THEM KNOW WHAT OUR CONCERNS WERE
THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT RESCUE TOOLS AND RESCUE OPERATIONS AND DMAT TEAMS SAID
WITH VERY STRAIGHT FACE YOU NEED TO ORDER DMORT ALSO WHATS DMORT DISASTER MORTUARY RESPONSE TEAM THEY LOOKED AT ME LIKE HAD TWO HEADS

SICKLES 17
TURNED ARID LOOKED BEHIND ME ARID SAID YOU REALLY NEED THIS DMORT TEAM HERE
ITS GOING TO BE MORE THAN WE CAN HANDLE IT TOOK COUPLE OF SECONDS AND THEN CRUTHERS AND BUTLER AGREED THEY BOTH TOLD THIS GUY GET THAT DMORT THING ALSO
IT WAS EERIE BECAUSE DONT KNOW IF THEY DIDNT WANT TO BELIEVE IT BUT IT WAS VERY
HARD BECAUSE THEYRE THEORY IS EVERYBODY IS ALWAYS ALIVE UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE YOU JUST
DIDNT NEED ANY PROOF THAT THERE WERE GOING TO BE
PEOPLE DEAD THERE JUST KNOWING THE DEVASTATION OPERATIONS SORT OF COMMENCED
THEN THERE WAS THE FUNNY THINGS THAT
HAPPENED BY HISTORY THEY DIDNT HAVE ANY COMMAND BOARD OF SORTS THEY TOOK WHITE CAR
LIKE FIRE SAFETY CAR THEY USE THE FIRE EDUCATION CAR THE LITTLE CHEVYS OR THE LITTLE FORDS THEY WIPED OFF THE HOOD OF THE CAR AND THE GUY HAD GREASE PENCIL AND LO AND BEHOLD THE HOOD OF THE CAR BECAME THE COMMAND POST
SO WHEREVER THE HOOD IS NOW DONT KNOW WHERE IT IS NOW BUT YOU HAVE TO GET THAT
HOOD FOR THE ARCHIVE IM SURE IT WAS WASHED OFF

SICKLES 18
BY RICA BUTT THEY THE HOOD OF THE CAR ARID THAT WAS THE COMMAND POST FOR HOURS UPON HOURS
WHEN WE ACTUALLY MOVED DOWN TOWARDS VESEY STREET THEY DROVE THE CAR DOWN TOWARDS VESEY STREET AND THEY USED IT AS THE COMMAND
IT WAS COMMAND BOARD THERES LITTLE JOKE OUT OF EVERYTHING BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE IT THATS WHAT WE USED THE HOOD OF CAR SO ITS
ACTUALLY PRETTY INTERESTING THING
LATER ON COUPLE OF HOURS INTO THIS
CHIEF PERUGGIA TURNED WHITE AS GHOST HE GRABS EVERYBODY AND TELLS THEM THAT THEY FOUND THE COMMISSIONER AND THEY FOUND CHIEF GANCI AND THEY WERE BOTH KILLED WE COULDNT GET BODY BAGS WE WERE TALKING TO CORRECTIONS AND WE KEPT TELLING THEM WHERE TO BRING THE BAGS NOT HARD
YOU COULDNT UNDERSTAND WHY THEY COULDNT FIGURE OUT WHERE IT WAS BECAUSE THERE
WAS NO STREET THERE WERE NO STREET SIGNS THERE WERE NO MARKINGS THE BRIDGE TOOK
EVERYTHING DOWN THE WALKWAY APPARENTLY HE WAS NEAR THE WALKWAY NEVER SAW HIM NEVER GOT DOWN THERE UNTIL MUCH LATER ON THAT EVENING YOU COULDNT DO IT YOU JUST COULDNT GET AROUND
POST

SICKLES 19
THAT NIGHT WALKED AROUND WITH ONE OF THE CHIEFS THINK IT MAY HAVE HEEN CHIEF BUTLER WE WENT COUPLE OF BLOCKS IN EVERY DIRECTION AND YOU COULDNT BELIEVE THE DEVASTATION BIG FIRE TRUCKS CRUSHED AMBULANCES CRUSHED VEHICLES CRUSHED THE AMOUNT OF DEVASTATION WAS JUST UNBELIEVABLE
WE HAD FIRE MARSHAL WITH US AND THEY WERE MARKING STUFF WHERE THEY SAW IT ON MAP AND
TRYING TO WRITING DOWN WHERE THINGS WERE AND YOU JUST COULDNT BELIEVE WHERE THINGS WERE AND WHAT
THEY LOOKED LIKE
WE WENT UP TO THE THIRD FLOOR OF THE
WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER AND WE HAD COMMAND POST
THERE THE FIRST NIGHT WE WERE LOOKING OUT OVER IT AND IT WAS AMAZING TO SEE THESE BIG BACKHOE
VEHICLES COMING IN TO MOVE THINGS YOU WATCH THEM AT CONSTRUCTION SITES BUT TO PICK UP
STEP VAN THAT USED TO BE HAZMAT SUPPORT UNIT PICK IT UP AND JUST DROP IT OFF TO THE SIDE PICK UP WHAT WAS AN OLD EMS CHEVY THEYRE WHITE AND GOLD NOW PICK UP THE CHEVY AND JUST DROP IT
INTO CONTAINER TRUCK INTO CONTAINER GARBAGE CONTAINER

SICKLES
20
IT WA AMAZING THE DEVA
WAS THERE RESCUE TRUCKS JUST COVERED YOU KNEW
THAT ALL THESE PEOPLE WERE GONE SITTING IN THE CORNER OF THE ROOM THE BACK CORNER WERE TWO FIREMEN DONT KNOW IF ONE WAS AN OFFICER OR NOT BUT THERE WERE TWO FIREMEN
CALLING COMPANIES AND JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO WAS MISSING AND
WHO WAS NOT MISSING LIST THEY MUST HAVE HAD LIKE 500 NAMES IN THE BEGINNING IT WAS JUST
UNBELIEVABLE
WAS COLLECTING NAMES OF MISSING EMS PEOPLE WAS JUST WRITING OFF THE NAMES THAT
THIS KID HAD WRITTEN ON LIST BECAUSE HE WAS TOLD TO GIVE IT TO ME CHIEF CARRASQUILLO CHIEF
GORNBO MY NAME WAS ON THE LIST CHIEF KOWALCZYK CHIEF PERUGGIAS NAME WAS ON THE LIST BRUCE
MEDJUCKS NAME WAS ON THE LIST KAREN DESHORES NAME WAS ON THE LIST ROGER MOORE NAME WAS ON
THE LIST
NOBODY KNEW WHERE THESE PEOPLE WERE THE LIST WAS LONG THERE HAD TO BE 30 NAMES ON THE LIST THAT HE READ OFF TO ME IM SCRATCHING
OFF THE NAMES AND REALIZE IM CAPTAIN SICKLES WROTE MY OWN NAME THE GUY SAID NO NO NO
THAT

SICKLES 21
CAPTAIN SICK1E BIG FAT GUY MET HIM ONCE BEFORE NO NO ITS ME THANK YOU
IT WAS COMICAL AT ONE POINT BUT KNEW WHERE MOST OF THESE PEOPLE WERE GONE ALREADY
KNEW CHIEF GORNBO HE WENT UP TO OEM CHIEF
CARRASQUILLO WAS STANDING THERE CHIEF PERUGGIA WAS STANDING THERE CHIEF PASCALE THEY MADE HER
STAY UP NORTH BECAUSE SHE WAS WHEEZING AWAY BUT SHE WAS AROUND CHIEF KOWALCZYK WAS AROUND WE
DIDNT KNOW WHERE KAREN DESHORE WAS FOR LONG TIME WE DIDNT KNOW WHERE BRUCE MEDJUCK WAS FOR
LONG TIME WE DIDNT KNOW WHERE LOT OF PEOPLE WERE FOR LONG TIME
CHIEF MCCRACKENS NAME WAS ON THIS LIST
ALSO WE DIDNT KNOW WHERE HE WAS FOR
TIME AND HE SHOWED UP AS MATTER OF FACT AS WAS WRITING THE LIST MAYBE FIVE MINUTES LATER
HE CAME WALKING UP THE BLOCK SCRATCHED HIS NAME OFF THE LIST
THEN THE LIST GOT SMALLER AND SMALLER AND SMALLER NOBODY KNEW WHO WAS ON THE NEW YORK
HOSPITAL AMBULANCE BUT WE KNEW THEY WERE
MISSING TWO FROM CABRINI WERE MISSING CARLOS LILLO WE HAD HIS PARTNER WE DIDNT KNOW WHERE
LONG

SICKLES 22
LIE WA WE HAD YUTIRIRI PARTNER WE DIII KNOW WHERE HE WAS
THE LIST VERY EARLY ON WE WERE ACTUALLY ABLE TO NARROW IT DOWN TO LIKE TEN
NAMES THEN WE FOUND OUT KAREN WENT TO NEW JERSEY AND ROGER WAS IN NEW JERSEY SOMEWHERE SO
WE WERE ABLE TO GET THEM OFF
WE WHITTLED IT DOWN TO WE DIDNT
HAVE ON THAT LIST THE PERSON FROM HUNTER OR THE PERSON FROM METRO CARE THAT WAS FROM ALBERT
EINSTEIN WE DIDNT HAVE THEM ON THE LIST WE DIDNT KNOW ABOUT THEM THE HUNTER GUY THEYRE
JUST NOT IN OUR SYSTEM WE HAVE NO WAY OF
TRACKING
THEM
THE ALBERT EINSTEIN PERSON DIDNT
KNOW ABOUT THAT WASNT DOING IT ANYMORE WHEN WE FOUND OUT WE WERE TRYING TO DO PATIENT
TRACKING THERE WAS NO PATIENT TRACKING IT WAS VERY ANNOYING YOU CALLED COMMUNICATIONS AND
YOU JUST GOT PUT ON HOLD THEY COULDNT HELP YOU NO ONE COULD DO ANYTHING
KNOW HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF
PATIENTS WENT TO HOSPITAL BUT WE HAD NO PATIENT TRACKING WE HAD NO VICTIM TRACKING SO WE HAD

SICKLES 23
TO START ERIDIRIG FROM THE COURUUARID POST WE ERIT WHAT SUPERVISORS WERE AVAILABLE TO AREA
HOSPITALS AND FIRE MARSHALS JUST TRACKING DOWN FIREMEN AND EMS PERSONNEL AND POLICE OFFICERS
AND THAT WAS THEIR GOAL
THE COMMAND POST WASNT WORRIED ABOUT
CIVILIANS WE COULDNT TRACK THEM ALL THERE WERE JUST THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE BUT THEY WANTED
TO FIND OUT SO THEY COULD IDENTIFY WHO WAS
MISSING FROM PUBLIC SAFETY IT WAS TOUGH
SO THAT INFORMATION WAS HARD GETTING IT
BACK AND FORTH THERE WAS LACK OF COMMUNICATION BUT BECAUSE RADIOS WERE DOWN THE FIRE
DEPARTMENT COMMUNICATIONS VEHICLE WAS DOWN BY CITY HALL ORIGINALLY BECAUSE IT COULDNT GET CLOSER IT DIED WE HAD NO COMMAND POST
VEHICLE WE COULDNT GET ONE IN WE COULDNT GET AN OPERATIONAL ONE SO THEY GOT THAT UP AND RUNNING AND THAT SHOWED UP MUCH LATER ON IN THE EVENT
IT WAS JUST HARD ANYTHING THAT YOU TRIED TO DO IT WAS JUST VERY HARD THINGS
WERENT GOING SMOOTHLY THINGS WERENT GOING THE WAY THEY SHOULD GO IT WAS VERY HARD GETTING

SICKLES 24
PEOPLE UP ARID OPERATIONAL EVERYONE HAD CORICERRI
ABOUT EVERYTHING THEY WERE JUST WANTING TO CALL FOR 30 SECONDS IT WAS VERY VERY HARD
SOME THINGS WERE ANNOYING ONE GUY WALKS UP AND SAYS HAVE TO GO HOME
VOLUNTEERED FOR MY COMMUNITY TOURS FOR THE MONTH DONT HAVE TO STAY ALL THE TIME HERE WANT
TO GO HOME NOW JUST LOOKED AT HIM AND SAID AND
COULDNT BELIEVE WHAT WAS COMING OUT
OF SOME PEOPLES MOUTHS IT WAS JUST AMAZING THE PERSONAL TOLL IT HAD ON ME DONT KNOW
DONT KNOW IF WAS THE LAST ONE TO SEE THIS GUY CHIEF GANCI WAS ALIVE HOW DO YOU TELL HIS
WIFE THAT YOUR HUSBAND DIED HERO TRYING TO GET
EVERYBODY TO SAFETY
HE WAS WITH COMMISSIONER FEEHAN TOWARD
THE END WHY THE TWO OF THEM DIDNT GO OFF TO COMMAND POST AND TRY AT THE FIRST COLLAPSE TRY TO
PUT THIS BACK TOGETHER AND TRY TO PUT ORGANIZATION TOGETHER THE FIRST THING THIS GUY THOUGHT OF WAS TO WALK FURTHER SOUTH TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO SAFETY AND FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON
POOR

SICKLES 25
AW LLU DON KNOW WHAT WA GOING THROUGH HIS MIND BUT IT WAS PERCEIVED AS
HE WAS JUST LOOKING TO GET PEOPLE TO SAFE AREA HOW DO YOU TELL THAT TO SOMEBODY PEOPLE DONT UNDERSTAND THAT THINK IM THE LAST ONE TO SEE THIS POOR GUY ALIVE AND HE WAS KILLED
DONT KNOW THE CONDITION OF CHIEF GANCI BUT UNDERSTAND HE WAS PRETTY MUCH IN THE
SAME CONDITION
ITS JUST AMAZING THE AMOUNT OF
DEVASTATION WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS DAY AFTER DAY ITS AMAZING DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE TO
SAY
LATER ON MY MISSING PERSONNEL TOLD YOU EARLIER SAW PAT ON THE STREET AND HE TOLD
ME HIS PARTNER WAS MISSING WHEN WE GOT TO THE RIVER TERRACE SHE WAS STANDING THERE
EVERYBODYS GRAY BECAUSE THEY WERE ALL COVERED IN SOOT SHE WAS CLEAN SHE WAS CLEAN SHE WAS ABSOLUTELY CLEAN THAT WAS STRIKING
WALKING UP VESEY WHEN WE WENT TO THE NORTH END WHEN WE WENT TO THE RENAISSANCE HOTEL
SAW MY COMMAND CAR THE VEHICLE NEXT TO IT WAS NO WINDOWS NO NOTHING SAID DAN MY CAR

SICKLES 26
WA CLEAN THERE WA DUST THE VEIIIC1E ON THE OTHER SIDE OF IT NOTHING CLEAN COULDNT
UNDERSTAND WAS THERE WALL THAT JUST STOPPED IT
IT WAS JUST PRETTY FUNNY YOU WALK UP AND YOU AND THATS WHY MY CAR WAS STOLEN
WHATS HIS NAME
WAS THERE FOR 24 HOURS WANT TO GO HOME HAVE NO WAY OF GETTING HOME
OH 844 IS UP AT STAGING
WAS ON SITE FOR 25 HOURS HAD TO SEE THIS DEVASTATION WHAT WAS GOING ON WHEN
YOU WALK AWAY THERE WERE SOME FUNNY STORIES
BUT THIS GIRL WAS ABSOLUTELY CLEAN LAURA WAS CLEAN SHE CLUNG TO ME COULDNT GET HER OFF OF ME PUT HER IN AN AMBULANCE CABRINI TRUCK THINK IT WAS

SICKLES 27
ARID ERIT HER TO THE PIERS FURTHER NORTH
AT LATER POINT ACTUALLY HOOKED
WHEN HAD CHANCE TO CALL THE STATION
THE FIRST THING SAID IS HAVE WE HEARD FROM RICHIUSA OR SEIBERT DID THEY GET BACK
TOGETHER THEYRE HERE THEYRE TOGETHER
THE TRUCK HAS BROKEN WINDOW DONT GIVE FLIP ABOUT THE TRUCK ARE THEY ALIVE PAT HAS
KNEE INJURY HES CUT UP BUT HES OKAY ALL RIGHT THAT WAS IT
WAS HAPPY DIDNT LOSE ANYBODY FROM HERE EVERYBODY GOT OUT SAFE LOT OF MY
PEOPLE SHOWED UP THERE WAS ONE OF MY GUYS THAT WAS ON JURY DUTY SMITH TURNED AROUND AND DONT KNOW WHAT TIME HE ARRIVED THERE WE WERE AT THE COMMAND POST AND THERE HE IS IN
UP
UNIFORM IM
WHAT HAVE YOU GOT FOR ME ARENT YOU ON JURY DUTY GOT CANCELED OH GOOD THATS HOW HE FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS HE WAS IN THE CAR ON THE WAY HOME
ITS JUST AMAZING WHAT GOES THROUGH YOUR HEAD WHEN YOU WERE THERE WHY ARE YOU HERE YOURE ON JURY DUTY IT WAS AMAZING
HERE CAP READY TO HELP OUT

SICKLES 28
TARIDIRIG HERE LOOKING AT TLILI MAP AND ITS NOT HERE ANYMORE ITS JUST NOT THERE
ITS
WAS IT THIS WAS THE FIRST TWO OR THREE HOURS THAT WAS THERE
JUST NEED TO MAKE SOME NOTES ON THE MAP ITSELF WHEN YOU WENT INTO MANHATTAN AFTER
THE FIRST CRASH ONCE YOU GOT CLOSER DOWNTOWN DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT ROUTE YOU TOOK TO ACTUALLY GET
DOWN TO THE INCIDENT
THINK WE CAME ACROSS CHAMBERS
THINK VESEY WAS THE FIRST STAGING AREA DONT REMEMBER IF VESEY WAS THE FIRST STAGING AREA
DONT REMEMBER IF CHAMBERS IT HAD TO BE VESEY WHERES STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL
STUYVESANT IS OFF THE MAP STUYVESANT IS UP HERE BY CHAMBERS FURTHER NORTH YEAH
SO THE FIRST STAGING AREA WAS UP BY
CHAMBERS WHEN ARRIVED WALKED FROM CHAMBERS DOWN TO THE TRADE CENTER NO WHERE IS THE
RENAISSANCE HOTEL THE RENAISSANCE HOTEL IS OFF OF VESEY THE RENAISSANCE HOTEL IS OFF OF VESEY
JUST AMAZING
UNLESS YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE THAT

SICKLES 29
YEAH VE ARID NORTH END
THE FIRST STAGING
THE MOVIE THEATER
RIGHT THE FIRST STAGING WAS SOMEWHERE
AROUND VESEY HERES THE RENAISSANCE HOTEL THE FIRST STAGING WAS SOMEWHERE AROUND VESEY HOWIE
HAHN DROPPED ME OFF AT VESEY AND WEST AND WALKED UP TO THE NORTH TOWER WHERE MET CHIEF
GORNBO THEN WE WENT ACROSS THE STREET WHICH WOULD BE TWO WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER AND WE
EVACUATED THAT SO WAS OVER THERE
ARRIVING ON THE SCENE WE CAME DOWN CHAMBERS TO VESEY THATS HOW WE ARRIVED ON THE SCENE WE CAME OUT OF THE MIDTOWN TUNNEL WE CAME DOWNTOWN WE ZIGZAGGED LITTLE BIT AROUND TRAFFIC AND WE CAME ACROSS CHAMBERS
STRIKING
OKAY DO YOU REMEMBER THE SECOND PLANE THE TOWER
DONT KNOW IF WE WERE ON THE SCENE
AND LIEUTENANT MEDJUCK AND CAPTAIN
OLSZEWSKI
THATS WHEN WE WERE INSIDE THIS
BELIEVE
AND THATS WHEN WE EVACUATED THIS TOWER AND WENT OUTSIDE
TOWER

SICKLES 30
THEY WERE ON VE DONT KNOW IF THEY WERE OVER HERE HY VESEY AND WEST
THIS IS ACTUALLY WEST BROADWAY
WEST BROADWAY DONT KNOW IF THEY WERE BY WEST BROADWAY OR THEY WERE BY CHURCH BUT
THEY WERE IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD RIGHT
TEND TO BELIEVE THEY WERE CLOSER TO WEST BROADWAY THAN CHURCH ACTUALLY LEFT IT AT HOME HAVE ALL MY NOTES FROM THE FIRST DAY AND
THE DAYS COMING HAVE IT IN ONE REPORTER PAD LEFT IT HOME BY ACCIDENT THEY WERE OVER HERE
THEY WERE ON VESEY IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD
OKAY ANY OTHER THOUGHTS OR OPINIONS
COMMENTS
NO
MR RADENBERG THE TIME IS NOW 0557 AND THE INTERVIEW IS CONCLUDED

FILE NO 9110190
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT JEFFREY WARNER
INTERVIEW DATE NOVEMBER 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

WARNER
MR RADENBERG TODAY NOVEMBER 2ND
2001 THE TIME IS NOW 0745 HOURS IM PAUL
RADENBERG OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT CITY OF NEW YORK AM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW
WITH
EMT WARNER EMT JEFFREY WARNER BADGE
NUMBER 2933 BATTALION 45 QUEENS
MR RADENBERG THIS INTERVIEW IS BEING
CONDUCTED AT EMS BATTALION 45 AND IS
REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
JEFFREY IF YOU WOULD PLEASE START FROM WHEN YOU WERE ASSIGNED TO THE JOB
AM
WE WERE ASSIGNED THE CALL 1011
AND WE RESPONDED FROM NORTH QUEENS OVER THE 59TH STREET BRIDGE WE WENT OVER THE 59TH STREET BRIDGE MY PARTNER WAS DRIVING WAS IN THE PASSENGER SEAT WE CAME DOWN BROADWAY SOMEWHERE ON BROADWAY WE PICKED UP AN AUXILIARY FIREMAN HE JUMPED IN THE BACK WE PROCEEDED DOWN TO THE CORNER OF MURRAY STREET AND WEST BROADWAY
AT MURRAY STREET AND WEST BROADWAY WE BELIEVE THATS WHEN THE SECOND COLLAPSE OCCURRED

WARNER
THE AUOUTRIT OF DU IN THE AIR BECAUE LOT MORE THICK WE HEARD OF COURSE LOUD RUMBLE WE
DIDNT SEE IT COLLAPSE WE JUST HEARD IT FROM DISCUSSION AND THE TIME LINE IT PRETTY MUCH
SEEMS AFTER THE SECOND COLLAPSE OCCURRED
WE WERENT ABLE TO SAFELY DRIVE THE
VEHICLE ANY FURTHER BECAUSE OF THE DUST IN THE AIR THERE WERE BURNT PIECES OF PAPER FALLING ALL OVER THE PLACE LIKE TICKER TAPE PARADE
WE LOADED UP OUR STRETCHER LIKE WE WOULD FOR ANY KIND OF STANDBY AND WE JUST
STARTED MAKING OUR WAY AS FAR AS WE COULD DOWN MURRAY STREET WE MADE LEFT ON WEST BROADWAY
STREET WHERE WE EVENTUALLY CAME TO BARCLAY STREET
AT BARCLAY STREET WHICH NOW IM TOLD THE BUILDING THAT WE CAME UPON WAS NUMBER SEVEN
WORLD TRADE CENTER WE NOTICED THAT THERE WERE PEOPLE TRAPPED WHO WERE UNABLE TO GET OUT AT THAT
TIME OR UNAWARE OF HOW TO GET OUT IM NOT SURE WANT TO USE THE WORD TRAPPED ON WHAT
APPEARED TO BE THE EIGHTH FLOOR FROM THE OUTSIDE
MYSELF MY PARTNER AN OFF DUTY FIRE LIEUTENANT SOMEBODY FROM OEM WHO WAS ALSO WITH

WARNER
THE PORT AUTTLIORITY ARID FEMALE POLICE
LIEUTENANT MADE NUMEROUS ATTEMPTS TO GET INTO THE
BUILDING FROM THE PARKING AREA WE FINALLY FOUND DOOR THAT WAS SOMEWHAT OPEN ON THE BARCLAY
STREET SIDE NEAR THE PARKING GARAGE WHERE THERE
WAS REGULAR DOOR
WE ENTERED THE BUILDING THERE WAS
SOME KIND OF AN EMERGENCY ESCAPE LADDER IN THE PARKING GARAGE THAT WENT UP MYSELF AND THE
OFF DUTY FIRE LIEUTENANT WENT UP THE LADDER AND WE WERE MET MAYBE STORY OR TWO UP WITH
PLEXIGLAS TRAPDOOR THAT WAS PADLOCKED
THE FIRE LIEUTENANT TOLD ME THAT IT WAS
PADLOCKED AND REMEMBER THAT THE OEM GUY HAD HALLIGAN TOOL TOLD THE BOSS WAS GOING BACK
ON THE LADDER TO GET THE HALLIGAN TOOL AND WAS
GOING TO BRING IT UP TO HIM
HE MADE NUMEROUS ATTEMPTS TO TRY AND
OPEN THE LOCK IT FAILED WE WERE ALERTED TO EVACUATE THE BUILDING BY LIEUTENANT SCULLION AND LIEUTENANT FRAZIER OF THE FORMER ERS
WE CAME OUT OF THE BUILDING AND WE GATHERED ALL OUR EQUIPMENT WE WERE MET WITH
WE HAD ALREADY BEEN WITH BUT WE HAD MORE

WARNER
ECJUTIPIRTERIT THAT WA BROUTGLIT OVER TO BY THE CARPENTERS UNION
WE LEFT THE BUILDING MY PARTNER AND WENT TO GET OUR VEHICLE WE GOT OUR VEHICLE BACK
DOWN EVENTUALLY TO WHERE OUR EQUIPMENT WAS
LOADED EVERYTHING UP LEFT THE AREA AND WENT OVER TO CHAMBERS AND WEST STREET THERE WAS AN EMS STAGING AREA SET UP THERE
EVERYTHING SEEMED TO BE ORGANIZED FROM THEN ON WE SPENT MOST OF THE AFTERNOON PARKED OVER THERE
WHO WAS YOUR PARTNER THAT DAY NICOLE FERRELL
NICOLE FERRELL
NICOLE FERRELO
THE EQUIPMENT THAT THE CARPENTERS
BROUGHT OVER YES
WHAT KIND OF STUFF DID THEY BRING
OVER
THE CARPENTERS BROUGHT OVER LOTS OF JUGS OF SPRING WATER FROM SPRING WATER MACHINES
IT WAS SELF CONTAINED SUFFOCATING BREATHING APPARATUS BUT IT WASNT SCOTT PACK THINK

WARNER
WA LIKE MADE BY MSA OR OUETIIIRIG THEY HAD LIKE
REALLY OLD LONG CYLINDERS OF OXYGEN THINK THEY MAY HAVE HAD ONE OF THOSE MASH STYLE
STRETCHERS THE FOLDING STRETCHERS
THE CORNER WHERE WE HAD LEFT OUR
EQUIPMENT INITIALLY WAS WHERE THEY STARTED PUTTING MORE EQUIPMENT IT ALMOST BECAME LIKE
SMALL DEPOT BUT IT WASNT IT ONLY REMAINED THAT WAY LIKE 45 MINUTES BECAUSE WE ENDED UP
TAKING ALL OUR EQUIPMENT AND HEADING OVER TO THAT STAGING AREA ON CHAMBERS AND WEST STREET
FROM THE TIME YOU ARRIVED ON SCENE IN THE AREA OTHER BROADWAY AND MURRAY UNTIL YOU MET
UP WITH LIEUTENANT SCULLION AND LIEUTENANT FRAZIER ANY ENCOUNTERS WITH ANY OTHER EMS
PERSONNEL OR OFFICERS
YEAH THERE WAS THE OFF
SAID HE LIVED IN JERSEY HE CAME
VEHICLE HE HAD LIKE NON ISSUE
HE HAD UNIFORM ON AND COAT ON
ON HE WAS THE ONE WHO GAVE ME THE CARTRIDGES FOR MY MASK THAT HAD GOTTEN FROM THE PORT AUTHORITY VAN WHEN WE ARRIVED DOWN THERE
DO YOU KNOW WHO HE WAS
DUTY MOS HE OVER IN HIS OWN TECH BAG BUT AND HELMET

WARNER
NO THINK LIE WA EITHER FROM BATTALION OR BATTALION HE HAD GOATEE IN
HIS LIKE LATE TWENTIES EARLY THIRTIES REALLY NICE GUY WE HAD COUPLE INTERACTIONS WITH HIM HE WAS JUST THERE TO HELP HE WORKED THERE WITHOUT UNIT
WE HAD SEEN THAT ONE GUY WHO WAS ASSIGNED TO OEM THAT WORKED FOR EMS AND TELLING
HIM WHERE WE WERE COMING FROM HE WAS IN
CIVILIAN CLOTHES THERE WAS THE ONE PARAMEDIC THAT STARTED GETTING REAL BOSSY IM NOT EVEN SURE WHAT HIS NAME WAS KNOW THERE WAS THAT ONE EMT OR MEDIC DRESSED LIKE LIEUTENANT BUT HE STARTED GIVING ORDERS AND WE REALIZED HE WAS ONLY ONE OF US WERE LIKE YOU KNOW
AS FAR AS INTERACTION DOWN THERE MORE CIVILIANS OR GUYS FROM THE UNIONS ELECTRICAL
WORKERS CARPENTERS AND OFF DUTY FIREFIGHTERS WERE DOWN THERE
ANY PATIENTS WALKING WOUNDED ANYTHING LIKE THAT THAT YOU ENCOUNTERED
INITIALLY
MY PARTNER TREATED SHOULDER INJURY
WHEN WE ARRIVED DOWN THERE GUY WITH EITHER AN ARM OR
SHE GAVE HIM SLING AND

WARNER
LIOT ARID LIE ENDED UP RUTNINILNIG SORRY THAT WAS
YEAH THAT WAS OUTSIDE MENTION THAT THAT WAS INITIALLY
AWAY
FAILED TO WHEN WE
INITIALLY ARRIVED ON BROADWAY AND MURRAY WASNT EVEN AWARE OF THAT UNTIL AFTERWARDS
BECAUSE HADNT KNOWN MY PARTNER HAD DONE THAT UNTIL SAW THE IN THE NEWSPAPER
LIKE SAID WAS LOADING UP THE STRETCHER WITH EQUIPMENT GUESS SHE JUST SAT
HIM DOWN ON THE BACK BUMPER AND TREATED HIM AND HE JUST KEPT GOING NORTH LIKE SAID THERE WAS
HUGE EXODUS OF PEOPLE JUST GOING UP NORTH WE ENCOUNTERED SOME REPORTERS AND
STUFF WE WERE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT WE SAID
TO THEM WE WERENT EVEN REALLY SURE WHO WE WERE TALKING TO WE WERE LIKE YEAH WERE FROM EMS AND JUST LEFT IT AT THAT
THAT WAS REALLY IT UNTIL WE GOT OVER TO CHAMBERS AND WEST STREET UNTIL WE SAW MORE EMS
WORKERS LATER ON THAT DAY
ANY THOUGHTS OR COMMENTS OR OPINIONS ON WHAT HAPPENED THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD
NO JUST WHEN WE GOT OVER TO

WARNER
CIIAULER ARID WEST STREET THAT WHEN IT SEEMED
LIKE THINGS STARTED TO GET REALLY ORGANIZED YOU REALLY COULDNT GET ON THE RADIO AT ALL EVERY
RADIO WAS JAMMED UP IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO TALK ON THE RADIO COMMUNICATION WAS ZILCH THINK LOT OF PEOPLE GOT ON THE RADIO AND THEY JUST
KEPT TALKING AND TALKING
OTHER THAN THAT ORGANIZATIONALLY UNTIL LATER ON THAT DAY WHEN THE BOSS KNEW WHO WE WERE
WHAT WE WERE DOING THERE AND GOT US ALL IN THE STAGING AREA BY BMCC THAT WAS REALLY IT AS FAR AS BEING DOWN IN THIS AREA RIGHT HERE BY SEVEN WORLD TRADE CENTER AS FAR AS THATS CONCERNED WE WERE KIND OF ON OUR OWN DOWN THERE
THATS REALLY IT
OKAY THANK YOU
MR RADENBERG THE TIME IS NOW 0755 HOURS AND THE INTERVIEW IS CONCLUDED

FILE NO 9110191
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW ASSISTANT CHIEF FIRE MARSHAL RICHARD MCCAHEY
INTERVIEW DATE NOVEMBER 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

OKAY DAY REMEMBER
TUESDAY SEPTEMBER
DO EVERY DAY
MCCAHEY
MCCAHEY
FIRE MARSHAL CAMPBELL THE TIME NOW 1110 THIS IS PAT CAMPBELL FIRE MARSHAL OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT NEW YORK CITY IM HERE CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH ASSISTANT CHIEF FIRE MARSHAL MCCAHEY IN THE CONFERENCE ROOM ON THE 6TH FLOOR OF 16 HOOPER STREET ALSO PRESENT IN THE ROOM IS
FIRE MARSHAL STARACE FIRE MARSHAL MICHAEL STARACE
FIRE MARSHAL CAMPBELL AND
CHIEF MCCAHEY ASSISTANT CHIEF FIRE MARSHAL
RICH
WE ARE HERE TO GET HISTORY TODAY OF THE
EVENTS THAT HAPPENED ON SEPTEMBER 11 WHAT WE ARE INTERESTED IN IS THAT FROM THE TIME YOU BECAME AWARE OF THE ATTACK UNTIL THE FIRST PLANE HIT THE SOUTH TOWER UNTIL AFTER THE SECOND TOWER HAD COLLAPSED JUST GO AHEAD AND TELL US EVERYTHING IF WE HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS WELL ASK THEM AT THE END
11 WAS ELECTION WHEN GOT UP CALLED THE BASES LIKE
CHECKED WITH EACH OF THE COMMANDS HOW THE NIGHT WAS BEFORE ON MY WAY IN TO WORK
STOPPED TO VOTE AT MCKEE HIGH SCHOOL GUESS IT WAS

MCCAHEY
PROBABLY MAYBE OCLOCK FIVE AFTER ALONG TIIO LINES IT WAS THE WRONG PLACE TO GO SO WAS DIRECTED TO GO TO ANOTHER PLACE TO VOTE SO WENT TO THAT PLACE NEW DORP HIGH SCHOOL PUT MY VOTE IN
AS WAS LEAVING REMEMBER AS WAS LEAVING THE HIGH SCHOOL AFTER VOTING MY BEEPER WENT OFF
PAGE FOR 722 2900 WHICH IS UP HERE ON THE FIFTH FLOOR WHICH ASSUME IS MURF MY CAR WAS PROBABLY 15 FEET AWAY AND SAID WILL WAIT UNTIL GET INTO THE CAR
AND CALL HIM AS PUT THE KEY INTO THE CAR DOOR THATS WHEN BELIEVE THE FIRST PAGE GOT WAS 33 FOR
PLANE CRASHING ALARM
INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER THIRD
SO DIDNT THINK DIDNT KNOW WHAT IT
WAS IM THINKING MAYBE SMALL AIRCRAFT GET INTO THE CAR CALL MURF ASKED HIM WHATS GOING ON HE SAID HAVE YOU HEARD IT YES PLANE CRASHED NO AT THAT POINT BELIEVE HE SAID LOOKS LIKE IT WAS BIG
BIG CRASH AND THINK HE SAID AT THAT POINT HE ALSO
TOLD ME THAT THE SECOND CRASH HAD JUST TAKEN PLACE HE SAID IT LOOKS BAD THEY WERE WATCHING IT FROM THE WINDOWS AT HOOPER STREET TOLD HIM OKAY
AT THAT POINT SAID REACH OUT TO BOBBY BURNS AND ALL THE FLU AND HAVE THEM RESPOND RIGHT

MCCAHEY
THERE SAID READI CUIT TO BROOKLYN BASE HAVE THEM RESPOND THERE REACH OUT TO THE FIRE SENIOR AND HAVE
HIM RESPOND REACH OUT TO BASICALLY EVERYBODY WANTED EVERYBODY TO THE SCENE NOTIFY THE CHIEF FIRE
MARSHAL THAT WAS RESPONDING AT THAT POINT STARTED HEADING UP HYLAN BOULEVARD TOWARDS THE VERRAZANO BRIDGE
AND THEN PAST THE 122 PRECINCT BELIEVE ITS THE EMERGENCY SERVICE TRUCK NUMBER WAS PULLING OUT LIGHTS AND SIRENS
FIGURING THATS WHERE THEY ARE GOING GOT BEHIND THEM FIGURED THEY WOULD OPEN PATH WHICH
THEY DID COMING DOWN FATHER CAPADANNO BOULEVARD
THERE WAS DEBRIS PAPERS AND JUST ASH AND GOT MY
FIRST GLIMPSE AS WAS GETTING ON TO THE BRIDGE OF THE TOWERS COULD SEE IT WAS BAD CALLED MURF AGAIN BASICALLY ASKED HIM IF EVERYBODY WAS ON THEIR WAY HE WAS REACHING OUT TO US AND TOLD HIM KEEP THE RADIO OPEN KEEP YOUR CELL PHONES OPEN AND WILL BE GETTING BACK TO HIM
FOLLOWED ESU UP THE GOWANUS IT WAS CLEAR SAILING THROUGH BELIEVE IT WAS THE BUFF LANE SO WE WERE MOVING WE GOT TO THE TUNNEL THEY HAD ALREADY CLEARED THE TUNNEL SO WAS FOLLOWED BY MAYBE ONE OR TWO OTHER EMERGENCY VEHICLES BUT IT DID SEEM

TUNNEL TUNNEL
GOOD MOVE ANYWAYS WE WENT THROUGH THE REMEMBER COMING OUT AT THE OTHER END OF THE
MCCAHEY
LIKE IT WA TWO FOLLOWED THEM TLIROUTGLI THE TUNNEL AT THAT POINT JUST RECEIVED PHONE CALL FROM MURF WHO SAID THAT IT APPEARED ITS TERRORIST ATTACK HE EVEN THOUGHT THAT THE SECOND ONE WAS MISSILE HE SAID IT LOOKED LIKE ROCKET FROM THERE BUT HE FEARED IF IT WAS TERRORIST ATTACK JUST TO LET ME KNOW MY MIND WAS NOT GOING THROUGH THE TUNNEL WAS
UP MADE RIGHT UP WEST STREET LOOKING AT YOUR MAP HERE WE WENT UP WEST STREET THINGS WERE GOING WELL
ACTUALLY REMEMBER IN RETROSPECT REMEMBER SEEING WHAT THOUGHT WAS ONE OR TWO MAYBE TWO OR THREE
BUNDLES ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD FROM THE TUNNEL UNTIL AROUND ALBANY
LATER ON HAD FOUND OUT THEY WERE BODY PARTS JUST THOUGHT IT WAS COUPLE OF DOGS YOU
KNOW COUPLE OF DOGS GOT HIT YOUR MIND PLAYS GAMES PULLED UP AT ALBANY AND WEST STREET THEY
WAVED ESU THERE WAS POLICE OFFICER THERE THEY WAVED ESU INTO THE OPPOSITE LANE TO GET UP MORE IN
FRONT OF THE BUILDING THATS GUESS WHERE OUR
THINK THEY WERE DIRECTING US THERE WERE PROBABLY TUNNEL COPS THERE FOLLOWED ESU WE WENT
UP

MADE THERE
MCCAHEY
COIRURTARID POST WAS WA RIGHT BEHIND ESU THEY
STOPPED TRAFFIC THEY STOPPED ME RIGHT THERE AS ESU WENT UP THE COPS WHO WERE WAVING BELIEVE MAYBE
ANOTHER RIG OR TWO WERE COMING SAT THERE FOR
PROBABLY 30 40 SECONDS
SAID YOU KNOW WHAT THE RIGHT WENT OVER THE
HELL WITH THIS
DIVIDER AT ALBANY
WASNT BIG DEAL
ALBANY OFF THE CORNER OF WEST STREET FACING TOWARDS THE WATER
GOT OUT OF THE CAR LET THE MANHATTAN
DISPATCHER THINK DID CANT REMEMBER USUALLY DO THAT IM ON THE SCENE DEFINITELY LET HOOPER
STREET KNOW THAT WAS ON THE SCENE AT THAT POINT STARTED WALKING UP WEST STREET IN THE DIRECTION TOWARDS
VESEY TO LOCATE THE COMMAND POST WHICH IS WHERE USUALLY REPORT IN TO AT SCENE LIKE THIS WHERE THE HIGHEST RANKING OFFICER ARE FOUND ON THE WAY UP THERE
REMEMBER SEEING DAVE THE BUFF CAR PARKING ON WEST STREET FROM BROOKLYN BASE AND IN FRONT OF HIM WAS
BELIEVE IT WAS HARRY MEYERS BELIEVE STEVE GREGORY WAS THERE MAYBE ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL BELIEVE JERRY
BARBARA WAS THERE THEY HAD THEIR TRUNK OPEN MAYBE THEY WERE PUTTING THEIR GEAR ON JUST STOPPED AND
WAS CUT IN IT ANYWAY SO IT PULLED RIGHT ON TO THE CORNER ON

MCCAHEY
ASKED THEM KIND OF HALF OKIRIG LI TLILI THE COURUUARID POST IM ON MY WAY TO THE COMMAND POST THEY SAID NO
SAID DO YOU KNOW WHERE IT IS THINK HARRY SAID
THINK ITS UP THERE SO KEEP GOING
CONTINUED UP AND AT THIS TIME WAS JUST
IN SUIT AND TIE AT THIS POINT CONTINUED UP WEST
STREET WENT UNDER THE FIRST
THATS AROUND LIBERTY STREET ACCORDING TO THE MAP
GO UNDER THE FIRST OVERPASS AND CROSS LIBERTY STREET AND AS GET MAYBE 15 IM LOOKING AT THE SKY THE WHOLE TIME TRY TO KEEP MY EYES UP
LIKE MENTIONED BEFORE TO MIKE
AGAIN
EARLIER IN 93 ONE OF OUR BIG PROBLEMS WAS FALLING GLASS THERE WAS LOT OF GLASS FALLING IN 93 50
WAS CONSCIOUS OF THAT DIDNT HAVE HELMET ON AT
THE TIME WAS LOOKING UP EVERYTHING LOOKED GOOD THE SKY WAS BLUE LOOKED DOWN FOR BRIEF SECOND ABOUT FEET IN FRONT OF ME PIECE OF METAL MAYBE INCHES BY 11 OR 12 INCHES HIT THE GROUND ABOUT FEET
IN FRONT OF ME DIDNT SEE WHERE IT CAME FROM
THERE WAS FIREFIGHTER TO THE RIGHT OF ME REMEMBER LOOKING OVER AT HIM HE SAID WOWTHAT WAS CLOSE OR YOU WERE LUCKY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT
OVERPASS GUESS
AT THAT POINT SAID YOU KNOW WHAT IM GOING

WINDBREAKER
TO
MYSELF WHO WAS
AS
IDENTIFY
CLOSED THE TRUNK BELIEVE THE FIRST
MCCAHEY
TO GO BACK ARID PUTT MY HELMET ON AGAIN WA PROBABLY
HALFWAY TOWARDS THE COMMAND POST JUST PASSED MAYBE 50 FEET ON LIBERTY STREET TURNED AROUND WALKED ALL
THE WAY BACK TO ALBANY AND WEST OPENED UP THE TRUNK OF MY CAR GOT MY HELMET AND AT THAT TIME PUT ON MY
THINK
COMING BRIAN GROGAN WAS THE SUPERVISOR HE HAD ABOUT
THREE OR FOUR MARSHALS WITH HIM CANT REMEMBER ALL OF THEM THINK MASSER PASCARELLA SOMETHING LIKE THAT YOU KNOW THOSE GUYS NOBODY HAD GEAR ON
AT THAT POINT STOPPED THEM AND SAID
WANT EVERYBODY TO GO BACK AND GET THEIR FIRE GEAR
THEY WERE LIKE BITING AT THE BIT TO GET UP AND SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON AT THAT POINT THOUGH WAS STERN WE MAY HAVE EVEN HAD TO MAKE POINT EVEN AT ONE POINT EVEN TOLD BRIAN WANT GEAR ON AND POINTED
TO THE FRONT OF WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER WHICH WAS ACROSS THE STREET AND SAID THIS IS WHERE OUR COMMAND POST IS GOING TO BE WANTED EVERYBODY TO GET GEAR AND REPORT BACK TO THERE THAT WAS JUST SHORT OF THE OVERPASS THE SOUTH OVERPASS WE WERE RIGHT THERE WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER BETWEEN DOW JONES AND
GROUP OF GUYS
SAW WERE BROOKLYN BASE GUYS

MCCAHEY
UPPERILIEIIUER RIGHT THERE
PUT THEM UP THERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE
DOOR BUT WATCHED THEM LATER ON AS THEY CREEPED UP TOWARDS THE FOOT BRIDGE BUT THEY DIDNT GO PAST
THERE GRABBED BRIAN GROGAN WHO WAS SUPERVISOR YOU ARE IN CHARGE OF KEEPING EVERYBODY THERE YOU KNOW ANYBODY GOES BY HERE BRIAN YOU KNOW WERE GONNA FIRE THEM OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN JEST BUT WANTED TO GET THE POINT OUT DIDNT WANT ANYBODY GOING PAST HERE
AT THAT POINT BELIEVE JAY SUPERVISING FIRE MARSHAL JD LYNN SAW HIM COMING FROM ACROSS THE
STREET WHERE THE HOTEL WAS WHATEVER THAT CONSTRUCTION THEY ARE DOING OVER THERE RIGHT ABOUT HERE TO
WHATEVER THAT BUILDING IS OVER THERE COMING FROM LIKE CEDAR HE WAS COMING FROM ACROSS THE STREET AGAIN
BELIEVE HE HAD WINDBREAKER ON STOPPED AND SAID
JD DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT GO BACK AND GET
YOUR GEAR BELIEVE HE ACKNOWLEDGED ME AGAIN AT THAT SAME POINT BELIEVE BOBBY BURNS SHOWED UP AND
SOME OF THE GUYS FROM FLU AGAIN RELAYED THE SAME
INFORMATION GO BACK AND GET YOUR GEAR DIDNT WANT ANYBODY GOING PAST THERE AND WELL MAINTAIN COMMAND
POST WHERE HAD ALREADY SAID

MCCAHEY
BELIEVE PROBABLY HAD ONE EA TALKING TO BOBBY REMEMBER ONE OF THE MARSHALS GOING
HOLY WHATEVER PRETTY LOUD AND TURNED AROUND AND NOTICED THESE BLACK FIGURES THAT WERE IN THE CORNER OF MY EYE WERE ACTUALLY BODIES THEY SEEMED LIKE LITTLE TINY BLACK FIGURES SAW ONE OR TWO OF THEM
REMEMBER TURNING TO THE MARSHAL AND TELLING HIM RELAX THEN HE WENT AGAIN OH MY GOD SOMEBODY WENT OH MY GOD ANOTHER ONE REMEMBER TURNING TO THE MARSHAL AND SAYING LISTEN WE ARE THE PROFESSIONALS HERE WE GOT TO COMPOSE OURSELVES RELAX DONT BE SCREAMING THAT OUT WE GOT JOB TO DO OKAY AGAIN EVERYBODY GO GET THEIR GEAR OKAY THINK AT THAT POINT WE PROBABLY TURNED AROUND AND WATCHED MAYBE OR PEOPLE JUMP REMEMBER STANDING THERE JUST WATCHING REMEMBER ONE GUY COMING DOWN ONE GUY WAS COMING DOWN ON HIS BACK HIS HANDS UP ONE GUY CAME DOWN WITH
WHITE SHIRT IT LOOKED LIKE HE WAS WAVING IT
PROBABLY AFTER THAT THINK WE ALL SAW ONE HE HIT
LIKE LIGHT POST OR FENCE AND BASICALLY JUST WENT TO PIECES
AT THAT POINT WAS GOING TO START MY WAY AGAIN BACK TO THE COMMAND POST THINK BOBBY BURNS SHOWED UP WITH HELMET OR BUNKER COAT AFTER MAKING
10

MCCAHEY
SURE THAT
HAD TURNED TO START AND AT THAT POINT REMEMBER LOOKING UP AT WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER TO THE
BEST OF MY RECOLLECTION REMEMBER SEEING MIKE STARACE BUT ALSO REMEMBER SEEING DR KELLY AND SHE
WAS WITH FIREFIGHTER OR AN OFFICER HE WAS WITH HELMET AND TURNOUT COAT THINK HE WAS
LIEUTENANT OR CAPTAIN THINK HIS FRONT PIECE WAS WHITE IM NOT SURE THAT DISTRACTED ME WENT TO
SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON
WALKED UP SORT OF AN INCLINE WALKING UP
RIGHT HERE SO WALKED UP THE INCLINE THINK GOT TO THE TOP DONT KNOW IF IT WAS LIKE HEY WHATS
UP OR WHATS GOING ON DONT KNOW WHAT CAME OR HOW MUCH WE GOT UNTIL SOMEBODY HEARD ROAR AND
SOMEBODY SAID WHATEVER ITS COLLAPSING ITS GOING AND EVERYBODY STARTED RUNNING DONT THINK LOOKED
AT THAT TIME JUST STARTED RUNNING DOWNBACK DOWN THE INCLINE THINK WHEN GOT TO THE SIDEWALK AREA
TURNING TO GO TO MAKE RIGHT BACK TOWARDS ALBANY LOOKED OVER MY SHOULDER BRIEFLY AND COULD SEE THIS
HAD ALL THE GUYS TULD THEM WE WANT TU WILL GO UP THERE FIND OUT WHAT THEY
COME BACK AGAIN WANT EVERYBODY TO BE HERE DONT WANT NOBODY GOING ANYWHERE OKAY
STAY HERE NEED WHEN
GUY
II

MCCAHEY
BIG CLOUD OF DUST IT LOOKED LIKE IT EA COMING PRETTY GOOD
AT THAT POINT THINKING FAST HAD FEW OPTIONS WHEN GOT TO THE CORNER OF ALBANY THATS
WHERE MY CAR WAS AND WAS THINKING ABOUT EITHER MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS ACTUALLY THERE WAS FENCE CHAIN LINK FENCE IT WAS COVERED IN GREEN ACTUALLY
STOPPED THERE BRIEFLY AND CROUCHED DOWN AND WHEN LEANED AGAINST IT REALIZED IT WAS CHAIN LINK AND THAT
GOOD PLACE TO BE SOME THOUGHT BRIEFLY ABOUT
GOING UNDER THE CAR BUT
IF IT DOESNT WITH MY LUCK THE CAR IS NOT GOING TO BE COMPLETELY CRUSHED OR HALF CRUSHED THEN YOU ARE STUCK UNDER THE CAR
SO AT THAT TIME HAD NO CHOICE WENT MAYBE ANOTHER 15 FEET 20 FEET AND THERE WAS BRICK WALL WHICH THOUGHT WAS THE SIDE OF WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER AND FIGURED SINCE IT WAS TALL BUILDING SO WAS PRETTY SAFE THERE WHICH LATER FOUND OUT WAS ONLY
ONE STORY BACK OF THE GARAGE BUT BASICALLY PUT MYSELF AS FLAT TO THE BRICK WALL AS COULD THERE WERE PEOPLE AROUND DONT REMEMBER ANYBODY DONT KNOW KNOW MIKE SAID WE BUMPED INTO EACH OTHER
PROBABLY WASNT GOING TO BE OF THE STUFF STARTED COMING
FIGURED GO UNDER THE CAR
12

MCCAHEY
DIDNT REUEMBER THAT ACTUALLY UNTIL WE TALKED REMEMBER BUMPING GOING LIKE HI LIKE IN CARTOON
WHERE YOU ARE TRYING TO GO RIGHT BUT YOU ARE GOING LEFT DONT KNOW WHERE ANYBODY ELSE WENT
WHILE WAS AGAINST THE WALL COULD HEAR
THE STUFF COMING AND REMEMBER LOOKING OVER MY
SHOULDER AND SAW THE STUFF GOING PAST ME NOTHING LARGE SAW SMALL DEBRIS GOING PAST ME REMEMBER THINKING WHATS THE CHANCES OF SOMETHING COMING
STRAIGHT DOWN THE BUILDING THATS ALL WAS WORRIED ABOUT SO THAT WENT ON AT THAT POINT FIGURED MAYBE WE WILL LUCK OUT AND THEN COUPLE OF SECONDS DONT KNOW THE STUFF SEEMED TO BE COMING BACK IT STARTED PINGING OFF THE WALL IT WAS LIKE IT WENT THAT WAY AND THEN ALL OF SUDDEN IT WHIPPED BACK AGAIN NOTHING BIG DIDNT SEE ANY BIG CHUNKS LOT OF DUST LOT OF LITTLE THINGS STARTED PINGING BACK OFF THE WALL
AT THAT POINT GOT DOWN ON THE GROUND
MAYBE MY KNEES AND THEN THE DUST CAME IN AND THEN THE BLACK CAME IN
WHEN THE BLACK CAME IN THOUGHT AT FIRST THOUGHT THAT IT WAS SMOKE COMING DOWN THERE SAW AN ORANGE GLOW DONT KNOW WHERE IT WAS SMALL ORANGE GLOW BELIEVE IT WAS TO WAS DISORIENTED IT
WENT DOWN TO
13

MCCAHEY
LOOKED LIKE IT EA TO MY LEFT IM THINKING MAYBE PEOPLE NOW IM THINKING THAT JET FUEL THE THICK BLACK
SMOKE AND IM DOWN ON THE GROUND GOT MY FACE MY TEETH TO THE CONCRETE AT THAT POINT COMPLETELY FLAT JUST USING WHAT WAS TAUGHT YOU KNOW GET LOW AT THAT POINT FIGURED KIND OF THOUGHT THIS WAS MY ONLY THOUGHT WAS THIS IS WHERE THEYRE GONNA FIND ME ON THE STREET CORNER THOUGHT WAS IN IT WAS IN SMOKE AREA FIGURED LIKE SAID IT WAS DIESEL OR JET FUEL ITS NOT GOING TO DO ANY KIND OF WHATEVER IT GETS INSIDE YOUR LUNGS JUST LIKE AN OIL BURNER FIRE
ANYWAY AT ONE POINT IM DOWN THERE AND IM NOT COVERING MY FACE IM JUST BREATHING SLOWLY IM PACING MY BREATHING IM NOT PANICKING TRYING TO KEEP EVERYTHING NICE AND CALM LIKE WE ARE SUPPOSED TO
HEARD SOME PEOPLE SCREAMING SOME PEOPLE LIKE CANT BREATHE CANT SEE STUFF LIKE THAT SPORADICALLY NOT LOT VERY SPORADICALLY MAYBE TWO OR THREE SOMEBODY WHICH ACTUALLY HELPED ME DONT KNOW WHO IT WAS AFTER SOMEBODY SAID CANT BREATHE SOMEBODY DONT KNOW WHICH DIRECTION IT CAME FROM SCREAMED OUT DONT PANIC OR RELAX RELAX ITS NOT SMOKE ITS
JUST DUST JUST RELAX
AT THAT POINT THATS WHEN STARTED TO
14

COAT
COULD
REMEMBER
THAT AND DONT THINK HE HEARD ME
MCCAHEY
REALIZE MY MOUTTLI WA FILLING UP WITH LIKE ARID BALL ALL OF SUDDEN REALIZED WHEN WHOEVER SAID THAT NOW
IM STARTING TO PAY ATTENTION TO MY SURROUNDINGS REALIZED THERE WAS NO HEAT YOU COULD BREATHE STUFF
WAS GOING IN YOUR MOUTH BUT IT WAS LIKE COOL AIR COMING IN WHEN YOU BREATHE IT SO SAID MAYBE HE WAS RIGHT YOU COULDNT SEE IT WAS GRITTY
SO AT THAT POINT TOOK MY JACKET AND PUT MY JACKET AROUND MY FACE REMEMBER HEARING MASK GO
ON SOMEBODY TURNING ON THEIR SCOTT PACK THEN HEARD
THE BREATHING START WAS CHOKING WAS SPITTING UP AT THAT POINT LITTLE BIT STILL NOT SURE WHATS
GOING ON REMEMBER STANDING UP HALF WAY MAYBE CROUCHED NOW AND FEELING WHAT FELT THE TURNOUT
REMEMBER TAPPING THE GUY AND ASKING HIM IF PAL CAN HAVE HIT OF THAT WHATEVER
SOUNDING STUPID SAID CAN HAVE HIT OF
ANYWAY AT CERTAIN POINT WHILE IT WAS STILL
BLACK PREVIOUSLY TO THAT SAW THIS ORANGE GLOW BEFORE LET ME BACKTRACK BEFORE THIS GUY HAD SAID IT
WAS DUST SAW AN ORANGE GLOW HAD DECIDED THAT THINK WAS GOING TO TRY TO MAKE MY WAY TOWARD THE ORANGE GLOW FIGURING AGAIN IVE BEEN OUT OF FIRE OPS
15

THOUGHT STEPS SILENCE INDOORS
MAY HAVE BEEN INDOORS TOOK ABOUT MAYBE WAS DISORIENTED AT ONE POINT IT WAS DEAD
AND IT WAS PITCH BLACK AND THOUGHT WAS
SO STARTED TO MOVE WAS MOVING AT GOOD
PACE NOT RUNNING BUT
WALK BANGED MY KNEE HIT ANOTHER CAR AFTER
THINK STARTED GOOD BRISK IT MUST HAVE BEEN CAR
AND HIT MY HEAD
HEAVY
HIT LIKE TWO BANGING MY LEGS MY SHOULDER AGAINST CAR SOMETHING FELL ON DONT KNOW WHAT THE HELL IT WAS IT WASNT
MCCAHEY
FOR LONG THAT IT WA TAKING IN OXYGEN FROM THE
FLAME IF GET CLOSE TO THE ORANGE GLOW STAY LOW MAYBE WILL GET SOME OXYGEN OFF THAT IF THINGS WERE
GETTING BAD THAT WAS GOING THROUGH MY HEAD PRIOR TO REALIZING WHAT EXACTLY THE ENVIRONMENT WAS
AT POINT STARTED MOVING AND STARTED MOVING FAST DIDNT KNOW WHERE WAS ACTUALLY
REMEMBER THINKING IT FELT LIKE SHEETROCK AND
KNOW IT COULDNT HAVE BEEN SHEETROCK REALIZED IF
START RUNNING BLINDLY IM GOING TO BE RUNNING INTO
THINGS SO WALKED SLOWLY AND SAW ANOTHER GLOW AND WHEN GOT UP TO THE GLOW IT WAS WHITE SUV
REMEMBER THAT BECAUSE COULD SEE IT WHEN GOT RIGHT UP YOUHAD TO GET RIGHT UP ON TOP OF IT TO SEE IT
16

MCCAHEY
WA WHITE HE HAD III IIEAD1IGIIT ON HE UU HAVE BEEN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET OR WHATEVER DONT
KNOW SO CONTINUED GOING BECAUSE REMEMBERED WHEN
PARKED THE WATER WAS STRAIGHT THAT WAY SO THOUGHT WAS GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION
PROBABLY COUPLE OF MINUTES LATER OR VERY SHORTLY AFTER SAW THE GREEN GO TO RED OR RED GO TO GREEN UP IN THE AIR AS KEPT STARING AT IT COULD SEE IT WAS STREET LIGHT AS AM STARING AT IT REMEMBER SEEING BRANCH LIKE BRANCH LOOKED LIKE IT WAS ONLY ABOUT FEET OVER MY HEAD SO FIGURED KNEW WAS OUTDOORS THAT MADE ME FEEL BETTER AND JUST KEPT GOING VERY SLOWLY EYES SQUINTED AND IT STARTED TO CLEAR UP AS IT STARTED TO CLEAR UP REMEMBER COULD SEE WAS ON THE CORNER GUESS IT WAS ON SOUTH END AVENUE AND ALBANY BECAUSE THE LIGHT
THINK SAW WAS ON SOUTH END AND ALBANY RIGHT THERE AND THEN THERE WAS STORE OVER HERE MADE IT DOWN SOUTH END AVENUE HAD NO RADIO LOST MY RADIO HAD LOST MY CELL PHONE WHICH WAS ON MY BELT
REALIZED THAT WAS GONE MY RADIO WAS GONE HAD NO COMMUNICATION
WOUND UP GOING ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE ESPLANADE GUESS STARTED TO WALK BY THE WATER
17

MCCAHEY
THAT ALL KNOW EVERYTHING WA WHITE EVERYTHING WAS DUST THERE WAS NOBODY AROUND ONE OR TWO FIREMEN
MAY HAVE PASSED WHEN GOT DOWN TO THE ESPLANADE IT WAS LIKE VACANT AND THE DUST WAS STARTING TO LIFT AND
MY EYES ARE LIKE THIS AND GOT HERE AND RUN ACROSS FEMALE SHE HAD HER SHIRT UP OVER HER HEAD NO UNDER
GARMENTS QUITE SIGHT
BUT SHE WAS GOING WALKING BACK TOWARDS VESEY
STREET DONT KNOW WHERE THAT IS NORTH SHE WAS
WALKING NORTH SO REMEMBER GRABBING HER AND TELLING HER YOU ARE GOING THE WRONG WAY COME WITH ME SHE WAS KIND OF HYSTERICAL SHE SAID NO NO NO SHE SAID HOW DO YOU KNOW SAID KNOW BECAUSE JUST CAME FROM THERE REMEMBER SHE WAS GRABBING AROUND MY
SHIRT AND SHE FELT MY PATCH ON MY WINDBREAKER SHE
SAID ARE YOU COP OR FIREMAN SAID IM FROM THE FIRE DEPARTMENT SO SHE SPUN AROUND AND STARTED WALKING SOUTH AND NOBODY WAS THERE
AT THAT POINT SOME YOUNG KID TALL KID WITH HIS SHIRT WRAPPED AROUND HIS FACE BLOND HAIR
REMEMBER HE COMES POPPING UP AND AGAIN GOING NORTH GRABBED HIM AND SAID NO LETS GO THIS WAY AT THAT
POINT WE SAW REMEMBER SEEING BABY CARRIAGE FROM THE BACK COULDNT SEE IF THERE WAS BABY IN
18

MCCAHEY
IT WENT UP TO IT PURI IT AROUTRID ARID THERE WA RIO BABY IN IT REMEMBER SOMEBODY DONT KNOW WHO IT WAS SOMEBODY SAID LETS GO INTO ONE OF THESE BUILDINGS OVER HERE HE SAID HAVE NO IDEA WHERE WAS AT
THAT POINT SOMEBODY SAID THE BUILDING IS OPEN SO WHATEVER IT WAS IT WAS BACK DOOR TO ONE OF THESE
BUILDINGS
WAS LIKE
ALONG THE ESPLANADE
WE WENT UP THERE WE GO THROUGH THERE IT
TRIAGE CENTER WITH PEOPLE SCREAMING AND
AS WALKED IN HAD WINDBREAKER ON IT
PANICKING
SAID FIRE DEPARTMENT FIRE MARSHAL IT WAS LIKE
MAGNET WELL DRESSED OLDER GENTLEMAN GRABBED ME IMMEDIATELY AND SAID YOU ARE WITH THE FIRE
SAID YES
DOCTOR IS THERE ANYTHING CAN DO ASKED HIM ARE
DEPARTMENT
HE SAID WELL IM
THERE ANY OTHER
LOBBY AREA HE SAID THINK EMS THINK YOU HAVE
EMS HERE THEY
ARE IN THE BACK SO WENT BACK TO
POLICE OFFICERS FIREFIGHTERS IN THIS
EMS THERE WAS BABY THERE SMALL BABY AND THE
LADY WAS GOING HYSTERICAL THE BABY LOOKED OKAY TO
ME THE DOCTOR THOUGHT HE WAS OKAY
WENT INTO THE BACK ROOM AND THEY WERE NOT
EMS THEY WERE IN UNIFORM THEY WERE PARK POLICE THINK IF REMEMBER CORRECTLY PARK WITH THE GREEN
19

MCCAHEY
UTRILFORM IT WA FEMALE SHE WA TRYING TO CALM PEOPLE DOWN AT THAT POINT WAS HAVING TROUBLE
THERE WAS DESK THERE AND DOORMAN AND
SEEING
REMEMBER ASKING IF THE PHONES WORKING HE SAID YEAH AND SAID IM GONNA USE IT HE SAID YOU CANT USE IT HE WAS BLACK GENTLEMAN THINK
TOLD HIM WE NEED THE PHONE BASICALLY AND USED THE PHONE DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED HE MOVED OUT OF THE WAY AND USED THE PHONE AND CALLED
HEADQUARTERS
CALLED CHRIS TEMPRO SAID CHRIS DO YOU
KNOW WHATS GOING ON MEAN HAVE NO PHONE HAVE NO RADIO YES BLAH BLAH BLAH SAID LISTEN DO ME
FAVOR THEN THINK SAID FORGET ABOUT IT
UP CALLING HOOPER STREET BECAUSE KNOW HOOPER STREET HAS THEIR RADIO THEY WOULD ANSWER SO GOT HOOPER STREET AND GOT DONT KNOW WHO GOT GOT MURF OR SOMEBODY WAS LOOKING TO MOVE IM GETTING CONFUSED THINK AT THAT POINT WAS JUST TRYING TO GET THE GUYS MOVED BACK DONT REMEMBER WHERE THE FIRST MOVE WAS GOING TO BE JUST WANTED EVERYBODY THAT WAS ON WEST STREET TO FALL BACK SOUTH KEPT SAYING GO TOWARDS BATTERY PARK WANTED EVERYBODY MOVING TOWARDS BATTERY PARK
20
WOUND

MCCAHEY
AT THAT POINT THE DOCTOR CAUE OVER ARID LIE SAID YOU BETTER WASH OUT YOUR EYES BLAH BLAH BLAH
WENT INTO THE BATHROOM SOMEBODY GAVE ME SOME WATER WASHED MY EYES WAS HAVING TROUBLE KEEPING THEM
OPEN AT THAT POINT LOOKED OUTSIDE HUNG UP THINK CALLED MY HOUSE AND CALLED MY WIFE TO TELL
HER WAS OKAY WENT BACK OUT REMEMBER THE DOCTOR SAYING WHERE ARE YOU GOING SAID IM
GOT TO FIND MY GUYS HE SAID
GOING TO GO BACK OUT
FINE EVERYTHING SEEMED
LIFTING UP HAD GIVEN
PHONE TO THE DOORMAN AND
SEND EMS OR WHATEVER HE WAS TALKING TO THEN WENT BACK OUT AND GUESS WALKED BACK TO ALBANY AND UP ALBANY
AS CAME ACROSS ALBANY THERE WAS THINK RAN INTO LANE LECHTER LANE YES THERE WAS ANOTHER
MARSHAL THERE RAN INTO SOMEBODY ELSE IM GETTING CONFUSED WITH THE SECOND COLLAPSE NOW TIME FLIES BY
KNOW WE DEFINITELY HAD LECHTER LANE THERE WAS SOME SORT OF BODEGA OR GRISTEDES OR SOMETHING THERE AND WE
WENT INTO THERE WENT THERE TO THE DOOR IT WAS
LOCKED REMEMBER KNOCKING ON THE DOOR AND REMEMBER SEEING GIRL AND GUY THEY WERENT GOING TO OPEN THE
TO BE OKAY IT WAS KIND OF
THE ADDRESS SO GAVE THE SAID GIVE HIM THE ADDRESS
21

MCCAHEY
DOOR TOOK MY IIIE1D CUIT ARID KNOCKED MY IIIE1D
AGAINST THE GLASS OPEN THE DOOR THEN SHE OPENED UP SHE DIDNT KNOW WHO THE HELL WE WERE WE WENT IN THERE
AND THEIR PHONE WORKED SO THEN CALLED CHRIS AGAIN AND SAID WE WILL MAKE THIS COMMAND POST HAVE LINE GOING IN AND OUT BELIEVE WE TOOK SOME WATER THERE WAS OTHER GUYS THAT WERE FIREMEN IN THERE
CANT REMEMBER
ANYWAY AT THAT POINT BELIEVE ASKED LANE
TO STAY THERE GAVE CHRIS THAT TELEPHONE NUMBER THINK TOOK SOMEBODYS RADIO AND WAS TRYING TO GET
PEOPLE ON THE RADIO REMEMBER GETTING JACK MCCAULEY AND WANTED THE GUYS MOVING BACK TO BATTERY PARK WE WERE GOING TOWARDS THAT WAY SOMEBODY SAID THATS LIKE
MILE AWAY YOU KNOW BACK AND FORTH NOW IM DONT THINK WE MOVED BACK TO BATTERY PARK UNTIL THE
SECOND IT WAS AFTER THE SECOND COLLAPSE RIGHT WHEN
WE ACTUALLY GOT TO BATTERY PARK
AT THIS POINT IM LITTLE CONFUSED WHERE
NOW WAS THERE THINK WENT BACK UP SOUTH END AVENUE OKAY THATS CORRECT IM TRYING TO THINK WE DID MOVE BACK TO BATTERY PARK AFTER THE FIRST COLLAPSE
INAUDIBLE
22

MCCAHEY
YES WA BACK THERE BY THE WATER THE WATER WAS RIGHT TO MY BACK REMEMBER GOING BACK AND
FORTH HAD SOMEBODYS RADIO GOING BACK AND FORTH ABOUT MOVING TO BATTERY PARK THINK WE DID WE
MOVED TO BATTERY PARK THINK THATS WHEN MET YOU AGAIN RIGHT THAT WAS AFTER THE FIRST COLLAPSE
OKAY WAS IT AFTER THE SECOND COLLAPSE
OKAY THAT WAS AFTER THE SECOND COLLAPSE
THEN GOT IN THE TRUCK AND DROVE BACK IM CONFUSED NOW ALL KNOW IS WE WERE HERE AND MAY HAVE LEFT
LANE CANT REMEMBER WHO RAN INTO OKAY WHATEVER KNOW HAD LEFT LANE ON THE PHONE
SPOKE TO CHRIS GAVE HIM THE ADDRESS WHERE WE WERE OKAY NOW REMEMBER WAS IN CONTACT WITH JACK MCCAULEY AND JIMMY KELTY BUT HE COULDNT MAKE IT HE KEPT TELLING ME HE WASNT SURE WHERE HE WAS THINK JACK PROBABLY WASNT SURE WHERE HE WAS AND WASNT EXACTLY SURE WHERE MY LOCATION WAS AT THAT TIME
DONT KNOW THAT AREA DOWN THERE BUT THAT WAS IT WE HAD LOT OF RADIO TRAFFIC ONCE GOT THE RADIO
LOT OF RADIO TRAFFIC WITH JIMMY KELTY WHO WAS
SUPPOSEDLY TRAPPED UP BY 10 AND 10 HE SAID HE HAD BUNCH OF GUYS WITH HIM OKAY HE COULD NOT MEET HE
COULDNT GET TO THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY JACK WAS
23

MCCAHEY
BA TELLING ME ITS TOO FAR BUTT PUTT HINT IN CHARGE THINK HE WAS ON UP ON WEST STREET
AT THAT POINT DONT KNOW HOW GOT BUT REMEMBER WALKING BACK UP THE WEST SIDE NO NO THAT
WAS STILL AFTER THE SECOND COLLAPSE NO IT WASNT THE SECOND COLLAPSE IT WAS ON WEST STREET THATS
RIGHT ON WEST STREET AS STARTED GOING TO BATTERY PARK BELIEVE THATS WHEN RAN INTO CHIEF NIGRO
BELIEVE IT WAS CHIEF NIGRO AND CHIEF NIGRO WAS BY HIMSELF CHIEF NIGRO ASKED ME IF ASKED CHIEF NIGRO DO YOU KNOW WHERE THE COMMAND POST IS IS THERE
COMMAND POST SAID IM THINKING ABOUT PUTTING
MY GUYS BACK ON BATTERY PARK HE ASKED ME IF CHIEF GANCI SAID NO THINK ASKED HIM
SAW
AGAIN SAID YOU KNOW AM HAVING THE MARSHALS MOVE BACK UP TOWARDS BATTERY PARK DO YOU KNOW WHERE
OUR COMMAND POST IS GOING TO BE THINK AGAIN HE ASKED ME IF HAD HEARD OR SEEN FROM CHIEF GANCI IF COULD FIND OUT IF ANYBODY
WHEREVER JACK WAS WITH THE GUYS HE WAS DONT KNOW IF ANYBODY WAS WITH JACK WHEREVER JACK WAS CANT REMEMBER BUT ASKED JACK BECAUSE HE WAS THE
THINK WENT OVER THE RADIO
GOT MCCAULEY SAID JACK HAVE YOU SEEN CHIEF GANCI
24

MCCAHEY
ONLY GUY THAT ARI ME ARID LIE DIDRI EE CHIEF
GANCI TOLD CHIEF NIGRO NO AT THAT POINT BELIEVE
HE STARTED WALKING BACK TOWARDS THE TRADE CENTER THINK RAN INTO ANDY MCCRACKEN CHIEF OF
EMS AND THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN PROBABLY AROUND RECTOR STREET BETWEEN ALBANY AND RECTOR DONT KNOW WHAT
WE TALKED ABOUT HE MENTIONED SOMETHING TO ME AND CANT REMEMBER AT THAT POINT WANTED TO GO BACK TO MY CAR FIGURED TO GET MY TOLD HIM THAT HAD
MY CAR KEYS ACTUALLY MY HOUSE KEYS WERE IN MY CAR AND IT SEEMED LIKE EVERYTHING WAS SETTLED DOWN AND
EVERYTHING WAS THAT WAY REMEMBER NEEDED MY GEAR NEEDED HELMET NEEDED MY BUNKER COAT STARTED WALKING BACK DOWN WEST STREET AGAIN THERE WAS PRETTY
MUCH NOBODY THERE IT WAS KIND OF EMPTY IT WAS WEIRD WITH THE DUST IT WAS LIKE GHOST TOWN
REMEMBER GETTING BACK TO RIGHT AT THE SAME SPOT WHERE MY CAR WAS PARKED AND STANDING IN THE MIDDLE OF ALBANY STREET IT WAS COVERED WITH DUST THERE WAS TIRE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET RAN INTO COMMISSIONER GREGORY STEVE GREGORY EVIDENTLY THEY HAD SOUGHT REFUGE OVER HERE BUT IM NOT SURE CAN ONLY REMEMBER TALKING TO HIM NOW THIS WHOLE TRIP DONT KNOW HOW LONG IT TOOK 15 20 MINUTES IM GOING
25

MCCAHEY
DOWN GOING HERE TOPPINIG THERE ARID COLUINIG BACK GOING BACK GUESS IT WAS ABOUT 15 20 MINUTES REMEMBER STANDING THERE AND REACHING FOR MY CAR KEYS TO OPEN UP THE CAR TO GET MY STUFF OUT AND THEN STARTED TALKING TO COMMISSIONER GREGORY ASKED HIM IF HE WAS OKAY HOW YOU DOING DO YOU BELIEVE IT WE WERE LOOKING UP AT THE THING LIKE IT WAS NORMAL STUFF
HEARD THAT ROAR AGAIN SOUNDED LIKE BIG JET PLANE AND MY BACK WAS FACING WAS TALKING TO THE COMMISSIONER AND COULD SEE THE LOOK ON HIS FACE TURNED AROUND AND ALL SAW WAS THAT MUSHROOM COMING DOWN TURNED AROUND DONT KNOW WHERE COMMISSIONER GREGORY WENT THOUGHT FOR SECOND OF RUNNING ACROSS THE STREET BECAUSE FIGURED THERE WAS SOMETHING OVER THERE BUT BECAUSE HADNT BEEN THERE BEFORE NO WAY
DIDNT WANT TO GET CAUGHT JUST WOUND UP GOING BACK RIGHT BACK TO THE SAME SPOT BASICALLY IT WAS
LIKE DEJA VU ALL OVER AGAIN SAME ROUTINE EXCEPT KNEW WHAT TO EXPECT
WAS YOUR CAR SMASHED ALREADY
MY CAR THE FIRST TIME THE WINDOWS BLEW OUT THE FIRST TIME YES THATS TRUE WHEN GOT BACK TO MY CAR THE PASSENGERS SIDE WINDOWS WERE OUT THERE WAS LITTLE BIT OF DEBRIS ON IT BUT REMEMBER THE
26

PA
MCCAHEY
SIDE FRONT ARID REAR WINDOW GOT THE BACK WINDOW THINK WAS BROKEN CANT REMEMBER WHEN THE HOOD THE HOOD THINK THAT WAS AFTER THE SECOND MIKE MIGHT HAVE PICTURE OF THAT
WENT AGAINST THE WALL THERE WAS LITTLE NOOK IT WAS LIKE BEING BY YOURSELF THIS TIME KNEW
THERE WAS NOBODY AROUND WENT THROUGH THE WHOLE THING WHATS THE CHANCE OF SOMETHING COMING STRAIGHT
DOWN ON YOU THE
WHAT TO EXPECT DARK REMEMBER
WHOLE NINE YARDS SO AT LEAST KNEW AFTER EVERYTHING BLEW OVER AND IT GOT THERE WAS FIREMAN AGAIN COULD
HEAR HIS MASK HE WASNT TOO FAR FROM ME HE HAD
FLASHLIGHT HE HAD TO MOVE MOVED
LIGHT HE WAS THERE STARTED TO MOVE OUT
STARTED LOT FASTER
AS MUCH REMEMBER
HIS HAND WAS HOLDING ON TO HIS HAD ASKED HIM FOR THE
FLASHLIGHT HE SAID NAH NAH GOT IT AND SAID WELL KNOW THE WAY OUT OF HERE REMEMBER TELLING HIM YOU KNOW BEEN THERE DONE THAT BUT HE HELD THE LIGHT AND HE HAD HIS HAND ON THE RIGHT WALL AND HE STARTED MOVING SLOWLY DOWN THE BLOCK AND HAD HIS MASK
DIDNT WAIT AS LONG COMING OUT OF THE SKY THE BLACK CAME IN
THAN DID LAST TIME
AGAIN DONT KNOW DIDNT FEEL
HE WAS LEADING THE WAY WITH FLASHLIGHT IN
27

MCCAHEY
ARID THE BACK OF III CYLINDER HE STARTED GOING TO THE
RIGHT AND KNEW GOING TO THE RIGHT WAS GOING TO GO INTO THE BUILDING INTO THE GARAGE TOLD HIM GO
LEFT AND HE SAID BASICALLY NO THINK JUST WOUND UP GOING OFF TO MY LEFT IN TO THE MIDDLE OF THE
STREET
AT THAT POINT IT WAS STILL FAIRLY DARK BUT YOU COULD SEE THE STREET LIGHT UP THE BLOCK AS MADE IT UP THE BLOCK WOUND UP MY EYES WERE BAD THAT
TIME COULDNT EVEN THEY WERE HURTING THEY WERE HURTING OKAY COULDNT FIND BELIEVE IT OR NOT COULDNT FIND THE GRISTEDES WE WENT TO THE FIRST TIME
DONT KNOW WHY THOUGHT IT WAS RIGHT THERE THOUGHT THE STORE WAS IN LIKE COVE OF SOME SORT
AGAIN SOMEWHERE BACK HERE MAY HAVE BEEN ON THE WRONG CORNER THE FIRST TIME
SO WENT STRAIGHT BACK ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE WATER AGAIN MADE LEFT STARTED WALKING DOING THE SAME THING AGAIN BELIEVE RAN INTO MIKE KANE MIKE KANE IS COMING THIS WAY HE IS WALKING UP FROM BATTERY PARK DIRECTION SOUTH WALKING NORTH AM COMING THIS WAY COULDNT SEE HIM SAID HEY MIKE WHATS UP HE SAID WHERES THE GUYS WHERE YOU GOING GUESS WE HAD SOME SMALL TALK SAID
28

FREAKING
HOSE NOT SO WENT OVER TO THE CORNER
MCCAHEY
HOLD UP ECORID SAID KNOW THERE LI STORE WITH PHONE JUST WANTED TO FIND IT BUT
COULDNT HAD TO TAKE BREAK
SO WENT TO THE MARINA SOMEPLACE HERE WHERE
THE BOATS ARE DOCKED COULD HAVE BEEN THAT FAR OVER THERES ONLY ONE MARINA
ITS NOT THERES SOMETHING OVER HERE
THERE IS SOMETHING OVER HERE YOU DONT HAVE IT ITS
GOT TO BE RIGHT AROUND HERE WENT DOWN THESE STEPS
ON TO THE MARINA REMEMBER SEEING TWO GUYS TAKING
OFF ON BOATS KNOW BOATS FIGURED THERE IS HOSE THERE HAS GOT TO BE HOSE DONT KNOW WHERE HE HAS THE HOSE MY EYES WERE BAD EVEN MIKE SAID THAT COULDNT OPEN THEM UP SO WENT DOWN THERE NOT
JUST PUSHED THE WATER OUT OF THE WAY REMEMBER
STICKING MY HEAD PUT MY HEAD RIGHT INTO THE HUDSON
RIVER CLEANED MY EYES IT FELT GOOD IT HELP
NOW WHEN CAME BACK UP THINK KNOW IF LOST ANOTHER RADIO OR MIKE HAD
USED THE SAME RADIO AGAIN AT THAT POINT
REALLY DID
DONT RADIO OR WE
THINK
THATS WHEN STARTED ASKING EVERYBODY TO GO TO BATTERY PARK NOT TOWARDS BATTERY PARK SAID WANTED THE
29

MCCAHEY
COIRURTARID POST WANT ALL THE MAR TO BATTERY PARK
AGAIN REMEMBER GETTING JACK MCCAULEY REMEMBER THE
GUYS AT HOOPER STREET ANSWERING ME AND ASKING THEM TO RELAY IT WANTED THE COMMAND POST BACK AT BATTERY
PARK THINK IT WAS JACK WHO SAID ITS MILE TO
PARK DONT REMEMBER WHO SAID IT BUT
WANT
BATTERY
EVERYBODY AT BATTERY PARK JIMMY KELTY WE FOUND THAT
HE COULD NOT MAKE IT TO BATTERY PARK HAD MIKE WITH ME
SOMEHOW WE WOUND UP COMING UP ONE OF THESE SIDE STREETS GOT MIKE INTO THE WE WOUND UP IN
THIS SPACE WAS IN BEFORE THIS LITTLE SUPERMARKET OKAY DONT THINK LANE WAS THERE AND WAS LITTLE UPSET AS IT TURNED OUT THATS WHY LEFT HIM IN CHARGE THERE SO WE COULD HAVE AN OPEN LINE WITH
RADIO FOR THE RADIO AND THE PHONES IF NEEDED
COULD CALL UP LANE AND HE COULD CALL ON THE PHONE BUT
EVIDENTLY NOBODY KNEW WHERE HE WAS AND EVIDENTLY IT TURNED OUT THAT HE SOMEBODY GOT HURT HE WOUND UP
HELPING SOMEBODY SO HE WASNT THERE LECHTER WAS GONE WITH THE RADIO AND THERE WAS NO FIRE MARSHAL PRESENT
SO IT WAS ME MYSELF AND MIKE WE TOOK OVER THE PHONES AGAIN WE DID THE PHONE THINGS DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE WE DID
30

MCCAHEY
THINK CARL REMEMBER IF THERE WA ANOTHER MARSHAL OR TWO THAT SHOWED UP IN THERE WHAT THINK WAS ASKED THE GUY FOR TWO BOX CAMERAS THAT WERE HANGING UP THERE TOOK TWO BOX CAMERAS OFF THE
THING GAVE THE GUY MY NAME SAID THANKS
REMEMBER LAST TIME WHAT HAD HAPPENED IN 93 WAS WE HAD ONE OF THE FIRST INITIAL PHOTOGRAPHS TIMMY MARR GOT LOT OF PHOTOGRAPHS THAT NOBODY HAD THE PRESS DIDNT HAVE TODAY EVERYBODY HAS CAMERAS SO IT DIDNT HELP BUT TOOK BOTH BOX CAMERAS AND THEN WE WENT BACK OUT
STARTED WALKING TOWARDS BATTERY PARK TOOK WEIRD ROUTE THERE CANT REMEMBER WAS WITH
MIKE SO MIKE MAY REMEMBER BETTER THINK WE HIT THE BACK ROADS THEN WE RAN INTO ANOTHER DEAD END AND WE HAD TO GO DOWN AGAIN BUT MIKE SAID HE KNEW BECAUSE THATS THE WAY HE CAME WE MADE IT EVENTUALLY WE MADE IT BACK WE MADE IT TO BATTERY PARK OKAY MAY BE
HERE BECAUSE SHOULD HAVE WROTE THIS DOWN IN THE BEGINNING BECAUSE BETWEEN BOTH OF THESE AND
BEING IN THE SAME PLACE BOTH TIMES IM GETTING CONFUSED BUT THINK IM PRETTY MUCH RIGHT ON THAT
WE MADE IT BACK TO BATTERY PARK AND REMEMBER THE FIRST GUY SAW REMEMBER SEEING MIKE YOU SITTING THERE WITH BUNCH OF GUYS SITTING THERE
MISSING THINGS
31

MCCAHEY
REMEIWER MIKE LOOKING LIKE EAR ZONE GUTY WERE
COVERED DISHEVELED BEAT UP YOU NAME IT BUT SAW LOT OF GUYS THERE SO WAS KIND OF HAPPY DIDNT KNOW IF MY MESSAGE WHO WAS GETTING IT THROUGH THERE AS FAR AS MOVING BACK TO BATTERY PARK IF HOOPER
STREET WAS WORKING DONT KNOW IF JACK DID IT ALL BY HIMSELF REMEMBER REACHING OUT TO BOBBY MIGHT HAVE EVEN GOTTEN BOBBY ONCE OR TWICE ALL REMEMBER JACK WE HAD LOT OF DIALOGUE ON THE RADIO HE SEEMED TO BE THE ONLY GUY WHO WAS GETTING BACK TO ME SO SOMEBODY HAD IT
REMEMBER WALKING UP THERE AND SEEING WHO WE HAD IF EVERYBODY WAS OKAY THE USUAL GRABBED THE
SUPERVISOR GUESS IT WAS JACK REMEMBER BOBBY THERE AND JIMMY DEVERY JOHN GROGAN WAS THERE SO ASKED IS EVERYBODY HERE EVERYBODY OKAY LOOKED LIKE EVERYTHING WAS OKAY
AT THAT POINT TURN AROUND AND SEE DR KELLY AND DR PREZANT WERE COMING UP THE STREET AND REMEMBER THE FIRST THING SAID HELLO TO DR KELLY SHE WAS RIGHT BY ME REMEMBER SHE JUST WENT AND ASKED EVERYBODY IS EVERYBODY OKAY SHE WENT THERE TALKING TO THE GUYS AT THAT POINT JACK MCCAULEY CAME OVER TO ME AND HE SAID SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT THAT
32

MCCAHEY
CHIEF WE ARE MI COUPLE OF GUYS WHO ARE WE MISSING DID ROLL CALL WE ARE MISSING RONNIE
BUCCA SAID WHO IS THE SUPERVISOR
JIMMY DEVERY SAID SEND JIMMY OVER
OVER SAID JIMMY WHERES RONNIE
THINK HE WAS IN THE BUILDING IM NOT SURE
PROBABLY GOT LITTLE UPSET WITH HIM YOU KNOW WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOURE NOT SURE HES EITHER IN THE BUILDING OR OUT OF THE BUILDING HE SAID THINK HES IN THE BUILDING THINK MIGHT HAVE ASKED
WHAT WAS HE DOING IN THE BUILDING
AT THAT POINT DONT KNOW WHAT DID JUST
WALKED BACK OVER THERE TO JACK MCCAULEY AND JACK GOES CALM DOWN SAID OKAY AND THEN IT DAWNED ON ME AND
HAD JIMMY COME OVER AND ASKED WHO IS HIS PARTNER AND THINK HE SAID ANDY DIFUSCO SAID WHERE IS ANDY
DIFUSCO HE SAID DONT KNOW NOW IM THINKING WE ARE MISSING TWO GUYS THINK WE THINK JACK
SOMEBODY MAY HAVE HAD SOMEONE GO ON THE RADIO ASK AROUND ARE THEY HERE ARE THEY THERE ARE THEY THERE
AT THAT POINT WE HAD THE MOBILE COMMAND POST PARKED THERE THE BIG TRAILER REMEMBER WALKING INTO
THE TRAILER AND ONLY SEEING CHIEF NIGRO SITTING IN THERE WONDERING WHERE EVERYBODY WAS AT THAT POINT
HE SAID JIMMY CAME
HE SAYS
33

MCCAHEY
WE HAD GOTTEN IN TOUCH THINK THINK STARTED ASKING LOUIE AGAIN BECAUSE HAD RADIO REMEMBER LOUIS CHIEF GARCIA WAS OVER ON THE OTHER SIDE HE
WAS ASKING IF COULD COME OVER TO HIS COMMAND POST AT MANHATTAN COMMUNITY COLLEGE THATS WHERE HIS NEW COMMAND POST WAS YOU KNOW THE FIRE DEPARTMENT COMMAND POST
SO TO MAKE LONG STORY SHORT GRABBED THE CRIME SCENE UNIT MICKEY SHADWICKE SPENT PROBABLY THE NEXT 20 HOURS WITH MICKEY THAT TRUCK WAS GREAT FOR GETTING THROUGH THE STREETS WITH THE LIGHTS SO GOT IN THERE AND HAD MICKEY WHEEL ME OVER TO THE MANHATTAN COLLEGE COMMUNITY COLLEGE COMMAND POST
WHERE
CHIEF DEAD
HOOKED UP WITH GARCIA
IT WAS AT THAT TIME THAT GARCIA TOLD ME THAT
GANCI WAS DEAD BELIEVE CHIEF FEEHAN WAS FATHER JUDGE WAS IN TOTAL AMAZEMENT
AT
THAT TIME EVEN WITH ALL THAT FORGOT THAT PEOPLE WERE
IN HARMS WAY
FROM THERE THE CHIEF WANTED TO KNOW WHERE THE
MARSHALS WERE SAID HAD THE MARSHALS AT THE COMMAND POST IN BATTERY PARK THINK WHILE WE WERE THERE BELIEVE JACK MCCAULEY MOVED IN FARTHER INTO THE PARK BECAUSE THERE WAS STILL DUST AND DEBRIS
34

MCCAHEY
CHIEF GARCIA WANTED TO GO TO THE COURUUARID POST WE WALKED BACK
AT THAT POINT HAD THE CAMERA THEY WERE TAKING PICTURES IT WAS SCENE OF DEVASTATION JUST
WALKING BACK CARS WERE TURNED OVER
YOU HAD SAID TO ME YOU WERE NORTH OF THE
SOUTH BRIDGE
YES FOR THE FIRST TIME YES AFTER WE LEFT
THE MANHATTAN COMMUNITY COLLEGE WE JUST WALKED BACK AND WE GOT TO THE NORTH BRIDGE THERE WE COULDNT GET
BY THERE WE JUST WALKED AND WALKED AND THEN WHEN WE LEFT WHEN WE GOT TO HERE TOOK HIM BACK DOWN TO
WHERE THE STORE WAS CALLED THE MARSHALS HAD SOMEBODY ELSE IN THERE KNOW WE JUST ALL WALKED
TOGETHER WE ALL WALKED TOGETHER BACK TO BATTERY PARK NOBODY WAS THERE WE STARTED WALKING JACK SAID
KEEP WALKING WE HAVE TO MOVE FARTHER YOU GUYS WERE LIKE BY THE RESTAURANT THERE SEEMED TO BE MORE GUYS
COUPLE MORE GUYS THAN THE FIRST TIME
BASICALLY WE TOOK STOCK OF WHAT WE HAD TO
DO WE TOLD EVERYBODY WE WERE MOVING UP TO THE MANHATTAN COMMUNITY COLLEGE DONT REMEMBER MUCH MY EYES WERE KILLING ME SO BAD LOUIE DID ALL THE TALKING THINK JUST KEPT DUMPING WATER BOTTLES ON
35

MY EYES
MCCAHEY
INAUDIBLE
AT THAT POINT AFTER LOUIE GAVE ME THE
DIRECTIONS WE JUMPED BACK INTO THE CRIME SCENE UNIT BELIEVE IT WAS MYSELF GARCIA AND MAYBE DONT
KNOW MAYBE BOBBY MAYBE NOT CANT REMEMBER WE WENT BACK TO MANHATTAN COMMUNITY COLLEGE WHERE WE PRETTY MUCH SET UP OUR COMMAND POST THE REMAINDER OF THE NIGHT
DURING THE COURSE OF THE NIGHT THEY WALKED IN
EARLY ON IN THE EVENING THEY WALKED IN WITH THIS GUY
THAT WAS WEARING FIRE FIGHTING GEAR SOMEBODY HAD SEEN HIM AT THE PILE THEY BROUGHT HIM IN WE HAD HIM IN
ANOTHER ROOM THERE INTELLIGENCE WAS NOTIFIED BELIEVE IT WAS INSPECTOR ARNETT SHOWED UP FROM
INTELLIGENCE AND WE TURNED HIM OVER TO THEM BELIEVE IT WAS AT THAT TIME HAD MY FIRST CONTACT WITH ANDY DIFUSCO WHO SHOWED UP LOOKED LIKE LIL ABNER
BASICALLY JUST SHIRT PAIR OF RIPPED PANTS DONT EVEN THINK HE HAD SHOES ON DIDNT KNOW THAT HE WAS
DIDNT KNOW HOW MUCH HE WAS INVOLVED IN THIS
COLLAPSE DIDNT PUT TWO AND TWO TOGETHER WHY HE HAD NO CLOTHES ON NEVER REALIZED TILL LATER ON HE WAS BASICALLY TALKATIVE HE WAS ACTIVE
36

MCCAHEY
DOING III JOB WE HAD LOT OF MAR TARTINIG TO
HAD ALL THE SUPERVISORS IN THERE
DELEGATING DIFFERENT JOBS YOU KNOW GAVE BROKE UP THE MARSHALS REGARDLESS OF WHO THEIR SQUAD
WAS ASSIGNED TO GET SOME COVERAGE GOING
ASSIGNED SOMEBODY MARKED TO BE SUPERVISOR SO WE HAD SOME CONTROL BELIEVE FOR THE MOST PART THATS WHAT
WE WERE DOING RIGHT AT THAT POINT
WE HAD SOME CONTACT GOING IN GUYS WERE
COMING BACK AND FORTH DONT KNOW NOT MUCH MORE FOR US TO DO AT ONE POINT LATER ON THEN TOOK
BREAK AGAIN GOING BACK TO MY ORIGINAL WHY WENT BACK TO THE SECOND COLLAPSE NEEDED TO GET MY GEAR AT
THAT POINT IT SEEMS LIKE ITS PROBABLY GOING TOWARDS THE AFTERNOON 300 THE RECOVERY EFFORT WAS ON
GRABBED MICKEY SHADWICKE SAID MICKEY WANT YOU TO TAKE WALK WITH ME
FIRST WE WERE GOING TO DRIVE WE COULDNT GET THE TRUCK DOWN NEEDED TO GET IN MY CAR ALL MY GEAR WAS IN THE TRUCK MY DUFFLE DUG MY BAG MY BRIEFCASE MY KEYS SO MICKEY AND WALKED ALL THE WAY BACK TO ALBANY THE BACK ROUTE TO ALBANY AND AT THAT POINT NOTICED THERE WAS POLE SIX FOOT LONG POLE THROUGH THE BACK WINDOW AND THEN RIGHT THROUGH THE
SHOW UP STARTED
37

MCCAHEY
FRONT IT LOOKED LIKE CUIRTAIRI ROD IT EA ROUTRID ALL THE WINDOWS WERE BLOWN OUT THE HOOD WAS
SEMI DENTED MY TRUNK WAS UP NO MY TRUNK WAS CLOSED OPENED UP THE TRUNK IT WAS COVERED WITH ASH WITH WHITE POWDER COULDNT FIGURE OUT HOW IT GOT IN THERE
LATER ON MIKE HAD SHOWED ME PICTURE THAT HE TOOK AFTER THE SECOND COLLAPSE OF THE TRUNK OF MY CAR
MY TRUNK WAS OPEN SOMEHOW IT POPPED OPEN AND SOMEBODY MUST HAVE CLOSED IT THATS WHAT IT WAS COULDNT
OUT HOW HAD SO MUCH STUFF INSIDE IT LOADED
FIGURE
UP ALL MY STUFF MY 400 POUNDS OF BUNKER GEAR AND ME
AND MICKEY TRUCKED IT ALL THE WAY BACK AND THREW IT INTO THE BACK OF THE CRIME SCENE UNIT
WERE YOU PARKED NEAR ANY COMPANIES ANY FIRE
COMPANIES
REMEMBER PARKING REMEMBER THAT WHEN PULLED UP WHEN MADE THE LEFT ON ALBANY THERE WAS NOBODY ELSE ON THE STREET RIGHT BEHIND ME PULLED UP BLACK CROWN VIC 93 BEHIND ME BECAUSE KNOW WHAT IT
IS THREE GUYS GOT OUT THEY LOOKED LIKE POLICE
TYPES THAT CAR IM TRYING TO REMEMBER THAT CAR WAS GONE THE CAR WAS GONE WHEN WENT BACK WITH MICKEY REMEMBER SAYING DONT KNOW IF IT WAS
38

MCCAHEY
TOTALLED MY CAR WA GONE BY THE ECONID DAY WE WENT BACK THE SECOND DAY BECAUSE REMEMBER WAS ACTUALLY
GOING TO TRY TO MOVE IT DOWN THE BLOCK BECAUSE REMEMBER SAID WILL GET IN STAY HUNCHED OVER AND CAN GET THIS STARTED WALKED WITH THE KEY AND WHEN GOT THERE THE CAR WAS GONE
THE ONLY CAR LEFT ON THE BLOCK WAS BLUE CROWN VIC WHICH TURNED OUT TO BE DOWN THE BLOCK WHICH TURNED OUT TO BE DR KELLYS CAR THAT WAS DOWN THE BLOCK WELL THATS IT IF YOU HAVE SPECIFIC
QUESTIONS GO AHEAD
PRIOR TO LOSING YOUR RADIO DO YOU REMEMBER HEARING ANY TRANSMISSIONS
NOTHING ALL REMEMBER IS THE VERBAL PART THE COLLAPSING AND THEN LIKE MOST GUYS SAID THE DEAD SILENCE AGAIN NOT PANIC LIKE MAYBE TWO OR THREE PEOPLE SAYING CANT SEE CANT BREATHE CANT SEE THAT WAS IT LIKE ONE OR TWO AND WHOEVER THE GUY WAS DONT KNOW SOMETHING TELLS ME IT WAS MARSHAL THE GUY THAT SAID THAT ITS NOT SMOKE RELAX ITS NOT SMOKE ITS JUST DUST THAT ACTUALLY GOT ME THINKING
IT WASNT BOBBY BURNS BY ANY CHANCE
NO IT WASNT BOBBY BRIAN GROGAN SAID IT
39

MCCAHEY
WA ONE OF LII GUYS THINK LIE SAID THAT RIOT
DONT KNOW WHERE BOB WAS DIDNT EVEN KNOW YOU WERE THAT
CHIEF BARBARA HE WAS TALKING
WAS HE PARKED
THERE WAS CAR PARKED THERE NOW THERE WAS
TRUNK OPEN THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ALBANY BEFORE
WENT UNDER THE UNDERPASS SO RIGHT FROM ALBANY WHAT
HE WAS PARKED ON WEST MAYBE THEY WERE ON WEST
DONT KNOW WHOSE CAR IT WAS SOMEBODYS TRUNK WAS UP THEY WERE ON IT WAS ALBANY IT WAS ON WEST STREET BETWEEN ALBANY AND LIBERTY IT WAS PROBABLY IN FRONT OF THE WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER WHERE WE HAD THE COMMAND POST THAT WAS WHEN FIRST GOT THERE
THEY WERE WALKING
NO THEY WERE TALKING BELIEVE IT WAS HIM HARRY MEYERS STEVE GREGORY AND MAYBE SAL
CASSANO IM NOT SURE THAT DAY REMEMBER SAYING IM
GETTING CONFUSED PEOPLE WERE TELLING ME THEY WERE OVER HERE OVER THERE AGAIN IT WAS WELL BEFORE THE
SURE IF HE HAD NAME YOU WERE EVEN CLOSE
CLOSE
RIGHT AFTER
BARBARA YOU SAID YOU SAW HIM WHEN YOU REACHED THE SCENE
BUMPED INTO YOU CHIEF
40

MCCAHEY
FIRST COLLAJME IT WA ALUMT LIKE THEY WERE JU
GETTING THEIR STUFF TOGETHER THEY WERE AT SOMEBODYS CAR GETTING THEIR STUFF REMEMBER THINKING MAYBE
THAT WAS THE COMMAND POST AND ASKING THEM IF IT WAS THE COMMAND POST
NO REMEMBER TO MYSELF BECAUSE THOUGHT IT WAS UNUSUAL THAT BOTH BARBARA AND HARRY WERE THERE DO
YOU KNOW WHAT IM SAYING BECAUSE INAUDIBLE THATS IT NO THAT WAS THE LAST PLACE PROBABLY SAW HIM
WHEN WAS WALKING UP WEST STREET
ELSE
FIRE MARSHAL CAMPBELL TIME IS NOW 1201
THANK YOU VERY MUCH CHIEF
ANYTHING
41

FILE NO 9110192
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW CAPTAIN KARIN DESHORE
INTERVIEW DATE NOVEMBER 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

DESHORE
INVESTIGATUR TAMBASCU TODAY NOVEMBER
IM MIKE TARNBASCO WITH THE WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE WE ARE DOING AN INTERVIEW WITH CAPTAIN
KARIN DESHORE OF BATTALION 46 INTO THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 AT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER INTERVIEW TIME IS BEGINNING AT 0549 AM
CAPTAIN WOULD YOU BE GOOD ENOUGH TO TELL US YOUR STORY
OKAY ON 11 01 REPORTED FOR DUTY AS
USUAL AT 0500 HOURS LIEUTENANT SPIRO YIORAS WAS SENT FROM BATTALION 49 TO BE CONDITIONS 46 HE ARRIVED HERE
ROUGHLY AROUND 0615 HOURS MR KELLER WHO BECAME PART
OF THE PERSONS RESPONDING WITH ME ARRIVED FOR DUTY AT 0630 HOURS DONT KNOW THE EXACT TIME BUT WAS
SITTING BEHIND MY DESK WHEN MR KELLER CAME INTO MY OFFICE AND TOLD ME THAT AN AIRPLANE HAD JUST HIT THE
WORLD TRADE CENTER
BECAUSE MR KELLER IS PRANKSTER TOLD HIM
TO LEAVE ME ALONE AND GET OUT OF MY OFFICE THEN HE SAID TO ME IT WAS REALLY TRUE LOOKED AT HIS FACE
GOT UP AND SURE ENOUGH THERE WAS SMOKE COMING OUT OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER BUILDING WE HAD THE TELEVISION IN OUR LUNCHROOM
THINKING IT WAS POSSIBLY ACCIDENT OF

DESHORE
CE OR OUETIIIRIG HITTING THE WORLD TRADE CENTER DID BECOME CONCERNED BUT AT TBAT TIME DIDNT HAVE
COMMAND CAR DIDNT RESPOND WHEN IT BECAME APPARENT THAT COMMERCIAL AIRLINER HAD HIT THE WORLD
TRADE CENTER THE FIRST HIT CALLED LIEUTENANT YIORAS IN FROM PATROL HE CAME HERE AND ANOTHER ONE OF MY EMPLOYEES MR PRUE ALSO CALLED AND ASKED DID WANT HIM TO COME IN SINCE HE LIVED RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER AND ADVISED HIM COME ON IN WHEN LIEUTENANT YIORAS ARRIVED LIEUTENANT YIORAS MYSELF AND MISTER EMT KELLER WHO IS HERE ON RESTRICTED DUTY BUT STILL
FELT HE COULD RESPOND WITH ME IF IT WAS JUST AS MATTER OF BEING MY AIDE OR CARRIER OR ASSIST AND MR
PRUE RESPONDED IN COMMAND CAR 825
IT IS MY RECOLLECTION THAT WE DROVE NORTHERN
BOULEVARD TO THE 59 STREET BRIDGE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE 59 STREET BRIDGE THE SECOND AIRLINER HIT AND WE
WITNESSED IT MR KELLER LATER ON TOLD ME THAT WE WERE STILL AT THE OFFICE HERE BUT REMEMBER IT HITTING
WHEN WE JUST HIT THE 59 STREET BRIDGE ON THE QUEENS SIDE PEOPLE WERE JUST STANDING ON THE 59 STREET
BRIDGE IN TOTAL DISBELIEF NO TRAFFIC WAS MOVING TRAFFIC AGENTS WERE TRYING TO CLEAR THE WAY TO GET US
OVER THE BRIDGE WE COULD SEE THE SMOKE COMING OUT OF

THE BUTILDIRIG
EXPLO YOU KNOW DARK UOKE GOIRTIFIG
DESHORE
OUT OF BOTH BUILDINGS
WE MADE IT OVER THE 59 STREET BRIDGE MADE
LEFT ON SECOND AVENUE AND WE TOOK THE REAR END OF CARAVAN OF POLICE VEHICLES FIRE DEPARTMENT VEHICLES
BLACK CARS WITH SIRENS AND WE JUST FOLLOWED THEM BECAUSE THERE WAS JUST NO OTHER OPENINGS PEOPLE WERE
STANDING EVERYWHERE ON SECOND AVENUE AND JUST LOOKING BECAUSE YOU COULDNT SEE THE TWIN TOWERS BUT YOU COULD
SEE THE SMOKE COMING YOU KNOW ABOVE THE AREA
WAS NOT DRIVING LIEUTENANT YIORAS WAS
DRIVING AND SOMEWHERE WE MADE RIGHT TURN IN THE MEANTIME NOTIFIED COMMUNICATION WAS TOLD TO SWITCH
TO CITYWIDE WHICH WE DID AND TOLD HIM WHO WAS ALL
RESPONDING
AND WAS ADVISED THAT WAS CLEARED TO
RESPOND EVEN PRIOR TO THAT BECAUSE WE ALSO HEARD EMS
EMPLOYEES ON THE AIR ADVISING THAT THEY WERE ON THE
SCENE OF THE LOCATIONS AND THERE WERE NO SUPERVISORS AND THEY DIDNT KNOW WHAT TO DO WHERE TO GO OR WHO TO AWAIT
SO THEY WERE TOLD BY COMMUNICATIONS TO GO TO VARIOUS STAGING AREAS WE WERE TOLD TO GO TO WEST AND VESEY HAVE NO IDEA WHERE WEST AND VESEY IS AND WE JUST KEPT FOLLOWING THE CARAVAN OF EMERGENCY VEHICLES

DESHORE
WE ARRIVED ON THE WEST SIDE ARID BELIEVE IT EA WEST AND VESEY WE COULDNT GO ANY FURTHER IT WAS IN FRONT OF JUST PRIOR TO ONE OF THE TWIN TOWERS AND BELIEVE IT IS NUMBER TWIN TOWER ALL RIGHT
JUST AS WE GOT THERE CHIEF CHARLIE WELLS WAS THERE TRYING TO SET UP AN AREA WITH ALL OF THE
AMBULANCE CREWS THAT WERE JUST STANDING THERE AND
REALLY DIDNT HAVE ANYBODY TO GIVE THEM ANY
DIRECTIONS HE SAW LIEUTENANT YIORAS AND MYSELF AND HE BASICALLY ASKED US TO KEEP IN TOUCH WITH HIM AND BE
PART OF HIS CONTINGENCY
MOST OF THE INDIVIDUALS THAT WERE THERE WERE HATZOLAH VOLUNTEERS MAYBE AND TO BUS HAD ONE
UNIT AND REMEMBER IT WAS AL TOURO ON THE PARAMEDIC UNIT WE ALSO HAD STUDENT THAT WAS
HIS FIRST DAY RIDING AS PARAMEDIC STUDENT HE OF COURSE HAD NO HELMET HAD ANOTHER BLS UNIT FROM
FLUSHING DONT KNOW THEIR RADIO DESIGNATION BUT THE TWO LADIES NAMES ARE JEN AND BONNIE AND REALLY
DIDNT KNOW THAT THEY WERE LADIES EITHER
LATER ON FOUND OUT REACT UNIT AND ONE OF
THE GENTLEMEN WAS ORLANDO RIVERA BELIEVE THEY WERE
TOLD BASICALLY TO RESPOND WITH MYSELF AND CHIEF WELLS TO THE FURTHER PART OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
FLUSHING PARAMEDIC

DESHORE
BUTILDIRIG THE OUTTIIWE CARRIER OF BUTILDIRIG RIUTMBER
LEFT LIEUTENANT YIORAS IN CHARGE OF ALL THE
AMBULANCES HE WAS TO COLLECT THE KEYS AND AS THE UNITS WOULD GET PATIENTS THEY WOULD COME BACK TO HIM
GET THE KEYS AND THEN RESPOND TO HOSPITAL AND THEN COME BACK TO HIM OR WHATEVER THEY WERE TOLD TO DO
WAS WITH MR KELLER AND MR PRUE THIS IS FUNNY BUT MR KELLER TOLD ME THAT LOOKED LIKE AN ASS AND TOLD HIM IT WAS REALLY UNPROFESSIONAL FOR HIM TO SAY THAT
SAID TO HIM WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT HE SAID TO ME HAD MY HELMET ON BACKWARDS SO PUT MY HELMET ON THE
RIGHT WAY APPARENTLY WAS LITTLE EXCITED AT THAT TIME BECAUSE WAS TRYING TO GET EVERYBODY AS CLOSE TO THE WEST SIDE AS COULD BECAUSE OF THE FALLING DEBRIS AND THE BODIES KEPT COMING DOWN
SPOKE WITH PARAMEDIC CHARL FROM FLUSHING AND SAID TO HIM DID YOU SEE THAT HE SAID WHAT
SAID JUST LOOK UP TO YOUR LEFT HERE THE BODIES KEPT COMING OUT OF BOTH BUILDINGS SOME OF THEM WERE ON FIRE SOME OF THEM WERE MOVING OTHERS WERE NOT MOVING AND THE WORST PART WAS AS THEY HIT THE GROUND THEY WOULD GO LIKE SPLUSH SOUND YOU COULD JUST SEE THE WHOLE BODY WOULD JUST DISINTEGRATE INTO PIECES AND SPLATTER ALL OVER AND THE SOUND AND SAW COUPLE OF

DESHORE
THEM DO THAT WA ERICUIGLI TO URTAKE ME TUIIE CUIT TO THAT
BECAME MORE CONCERNED WITH EVERYBODY IN MY
CONTINGENCY NOT GETTING HIT BY FALLING DEBRIS HAD THE REAR CHIEF WELLS HAD THE FRONT AND ALL THE
VOLUNTEERS WERE IN THE BACK WAS TRYING TO KEEP THEM MOVING AND TRYING TO MOVE LEFT BECAUSE ONCE GOT THEM OUT FROM UNDERNEATH THE BUILDINGS THEY WERENT GETTING HIT BY BODIES BUT THE DEBRIS JUST KEPT COMING OUT AND
THE BILLOWING SMOKE AND AS PEOPLE KEPT POURING OUT OF THE BUILDINGS THERE WAS TOTAL CHAOS THEY WERE COMING IN OUR DIRECTION AND BEFORE WE COULD DO ANYTHING FOR THEM THEY WOULD TURN AND THEY WOULD GO BACK IN
THERE WAS NO ORGANIZATION ANYBODY SAYING
THIS DIRECTION PEOPLE JUST
HEY JUST KEEP GOING IN
WOULD NOT LISTEN TO ANY
DEMAND YOU MADE OF THEM
AT THAT TIME WAS BASICALLY ALL OF THE VOLUNTEERS THAT HAD WHO HAD NO HELMETS SO AS WE GOT OVER TO THE FURTHEST END OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER BUILDING WHICH WAS NOW BUILDING NUMBER THE SOUTHWEST CORNER CHIEF WELLS SAID TO ME KARIN GIVE ME ONE UNIT TO GO IN WITH ME GO ON THE COMMAND FREQUENCY AND WHEN NEED ANOTHER UNIT WILL CALL YOU THEN YOU KNOW THAT THE
KIND OF ADVICE SUGGESTION OR TO KEEP THEM SAFE MY CONCERN

JUST ALL
OF US
AN EXTREMELY WISE CHOICE
DESHORE
OTHER UTRILT IIA PATIENT ARID GONE BACK TO THEIR BU
WHICH AT THAT
TIME FELT SAVED LOT OF LIVES INSTEAD GO INTO THE BUILDING HIS DECISION WAS
DIDNT KNOW THAT THE TWO PEOPLE CHOSE WERE TWO LADIES THEY WERE JEN AND BONNIE BECAUSE THEY WERE THE ONLY ONES WITH HELMET IN THE MEANTIME AM YELLING TO GET EVERYBODY ELSE UNDERNEATH PEDESTRIAN OVERPASS OVER THE STREET BECAUSE AGAIN THEY HAD NO HELMETS AND THE DEBRIS THERE WAS NO LONGER DANGER OF THEM GETTING HIT BY BODIES BUT THE DEBRIS WAS JUST COMING DOWN IT WAS UNBELIEVABLE
CHARLIE WELLS MY LAST RECOLLECTION OF HIM WAS GOING TOWARDS THE BUILDING AND BONNIE AND JEN
TOLD THEM TO FOLLOW CHIEF WELLS WITH THEIR HELMET
BUT THEY DIDNT HAVE LONG BOARD SO SAID TO LATER
ON FOUND OUT THEY WERE LADIES DONT YOU THINK YOU SHOULD TAKE LONG BOARD WITH YOU AND THEY DIDNT HAVE
ONE SOMEBODY WENT AND GRABBED LONG BOARD FROM SOMEPLACE AND THEY HAD THEIR STRETCHER UP THEY LAID IT
ON THE SIDE OF THE STRETCHER
AS THEY ARE WALKING NOW THEY ARE TRIPPING ON THE STRAPS SO TOLD THEM AGAIN TOLD THEM THIS
IS NOT RIGHT YOU ARE GOING TO FALL AND HURT
ON

DESHORE
YOUTR YOUT WONT BE ABLE TO HELP ANYBODY ARID THEY TOOK THE LONG BOARD AND PUT IT ON TOP MY LAST RECOLLECTION WAS OF THEM GOING TOWARDS THE BUILDING
ASKED AT THAT TIME EVERYBODY ELSE WAS WITH ME STILL AND KEPT PUSHING THEM BACK AND BACK AND BACK BECAUSE SAID WHAT IS THIS SUBWAY AT THE END OF THE OVERPASS BECAUSE THERE IS FIRE COMING OUT OF
THE GROUND DIDNT REALIZE THAT THAT WAS CAR ALREADY ON FIRE OVER THERE
ALL THE AMBULANCES WERE PARKED RIGHT THERE IN
FRONT OF ME ALSO UNDERNEATH THE OVERPASS JUST NEATLY PARKED TOWARDS THE BUILDINGS ALL OF THEM THERE MUST
HAVE BEEN AT LEAST TWO ROWS OF AMBULANCES MAYBE 10 OF THEM OF COURSE CARS PARKED EVERYWHERE ELSE
APPARENTLY MY LAST RECOLLECTION LIKE SAID WAS CHIEF WELLS AND THE TWO LADIES GOING TOWARDS THE
DIDNT KNOW THAT CHIEF WELLS MADE IT OUT
BUILDING
OF THE BUILDING AND APPARENTLY MY DELAYING THEIR
ENTERING THE BUILDING JEN AND BONNIE MIGHT HAVE SAVED THEM ALL BECAUSE THEY ALSO SURVIVED MY BACK WAS
TOWARDS THE BUILDING TRYING TO PUSH EVERYBODY UP GRASSY HILL WAS THERE AND UP UNDERNEATH THAT OVERPASS
WHEN SOMEBODY JUST SIMPLY SHOUTED AND HAVE NO IDEA WHO IT WAS ITS BLOWING

DESHORE
HAD RIO CLUE WHAT WA GOING ON NEVER TURNED AROUND BECAUSE SOUND CAME FROM SOMEWHERE THAT NEVER HEARD BEFORE SOME PEOPLE COMPARED IT WITH AN
AIRPLANE IT WAS THE WORST SOUND OF ROLLING SOUND NOT THUNDER CANT EXPLAIN IT WHAT IT WAS ALL
KNOW IS BACK
KNOW IS EXPLOSION
AND FORCE STARTED TO COME HIT ME IN
CANT EXPLAIN IT YOU HAD TO BE THERE ALL
HAD TO RUN BECAUSE THOUGHT THERE WAS AN
RAN ABOUT 10 12 FEET UP THIS LITTLE GRASSY HILL AND BY THEN THIS FORCE AND THIS SOUND CAUGHT UP WITH ME ALREADY THREW MYSELF BEHIND THE LAST
SUPPORT COLUMN OF THE PEDESTRIAN OVERPASS IT BECAME PITCH DARK THE SOUND GOT WORSE THE FORCE JUST KEPT PASSING ME AT TIMES THOUGHT IT WAS LIKE AN ORANGE LIGHT MAYBE COMING PAST ME
WAS UNAWARE WHAT WAS HAPPENING THOUGHT IT WAS JUST MAJOR EXPLOSION DIDNT KNOW THE
BUILDING WAS COLLAPSING WAS SITTING WITH MY LEFT SIDE TOWARDS THE SUPPORT BEAM TOTAL DARKNESS TOTAL
NOISE
FELT BEYOND ALONE FELT DESOLATED FELT COULD SAY WAS PEOPLE THINK ABOUT THEIR
AND WHATEVER ALL KEPT SAYING TO MYSELF WITHIN ME DONT WANT TO DIE DONT WANT TO DIE
LIKE ALL FAMILIES
10
MY

DESHORE
DON WANT TO DIE
CANT TELL YOU HOW LONG IT WAS BEFORE IT
DIED DOWN JUST FELT LIKE THE DARKNESS THE
LONELINESS AND BEING ALONE WAS THE WORST THING EVER EXPERIENCED IN MY LIFE AND NOT BEING ABLE TO BREATHE THERE WAS NO AIR WHATEVER THIS EXPLOSION WAS SIMPLY SUCKED ALL THE OXYGEN OUT OF THE AIR YOU COULDNT BREATHE AND THE FEELING OF SUFFOCATION CANT EXPLAIN NO FURTHER ON THAT
DONT KNOW HOW LONG IT TOOK ALL OF SUDDEN IT WAS ALL OVER AND THE SILENCE SET IN
NOBODY CRIED NOBODY TALKED NOBODY MADE SOUND THERE WAS
NOTHING YOU
DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS HAPPENING AND JUST SAT THERE AGAIN CANT
GIVE YOU TIME PERIODS MINUTES SECONDS OR HOWEVER LONG IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN
SOMEHOW OVER MY RIGHT SHOULDER HEAR THIS MALE VOICE IS THERE ANYBODY OUT THERE DIDNT
KNOW AT FIRST SHOULD ANSWER SHOULD NOT ANSWER THEN JUST SAID IM OVER HERE PLEASE DONT LEAVE ME THE MAN SAID IM OVER HERE CANT SEE THATS WHEN OPENED MY EYES SAID CANT SEE EITHER HE SAID
NOTHING ABSOLUTELY
COULD OPEN YOUR BECAME LITTLE
EYES IT WAS PITCH
BIT EASIER BUT JUST SAT THERE
BLACK BREATHING
11

DESHORE
OKAY IM GOING TO TALK SAID IM GOING TO TALK ARID
WE WILL FIND EACH OTHER THATS EXACTLY WHAT WE DID
WE FOUND EACH OTHER WE KEPT TALKING TO EACH OTHER
WE FOUND EACH OTHER NOBODY ELSE ANSWERED NOBODY ELSE SAID WORD WAS UNAWARE THAT THERE WERE PEOPLE FROM MY UNIT LAYING ALL AROUND ME THEY DESCRIBED IT LATER ON WHERE THEY WERE
HAD POLICE VAN IN FRONT OF ME ABOUT FEET THAT REMEMBER BEING THERE SAW PICTURE
LATER ON IT WAS TOTALLY DESTROYED TWO FEET TO MY RIGHT THERE WAS AN OVERTURNED CAR WHICH SAW LATER ON
THE PICTURES ALSO HAD STEEL BEAMS ALL AROUND ME LIKE SAID FOUND THIS GENTLEMAN AND WE
HELD ONTO EACH OTHER LIKE LITTLE KIDS BY THEN WE WERE
COUGHING VOMITING SPITTING IT WAS JUST WE WERE TRYING TO BREATHE IT WAS TOTAL DARKNESS WE COULDNT
SEE ANYTHING BEHIND US AT ALL WE FOUND ABOUT OR MORE PEOPLE AND WE HELD ONTO EACH OTHER LIKE LITTLE
KIDS WE WALKED AS FOUND OUT LATER ON TOWARDS THE WATER SINCE DIDNT KNOW ANY OF THE LOCATION
DIDNT KNOW THERE WAS MARINA WE JUST WALKED IN DIRECTION WHERE WE COULD WALK WE HELD ONTO EACH OTHER WE WERE ALL COUGHING VOMITING SOME OF US FELL DOWN WE WOULD PICK EACH OTHER UP THERE MIGHT
12

DESHORE
HAVE BEEN OF BY NOW THERE WERE DEAD BODIES
LAYING EVERYWHERE OBVIOUS SIGNS OF DEATH
HAD NO AMBULANCES HAD NO MEDICAL
EQUIPMENT WE HAD NOTHING JUST THE WAY WE WERE THATS WHAT WE HAD TOWARDS OUR AS WE KEPT WALKING
DOWN STREET HAVE NO IDEA WHAT STREET IT
HALFWAY DOWN THAT STREET TWO LADIES CAME OUT OF BUILDING THEY BROUGHT US SOME WATER WE STARTED TO RINSE OUR MOUTHS OUT AND WE STARTED TO AT LEAST KNOW IRRIGATED MY EYES BECAUSE HAD WHATEVER IT WAS IN MY EYES AND THAT MADE IT EVEN WORSE NOW
APPARENTLY CREATED MUD IN MY EYES AS WAS TOLD LATER ON WE HAD GRANULATED CEMENT AND JET FUEL MIXTURE ALL OVER OUR UNIFORMS AND OUR BODIES
IT JUST GOT WORSE WE NOW PICKED UP
FIREMAN THAT WAS SEVERELY SEVERELY INJURED HAD SOME FEMALE POLICE OFFICERS THAT HAD SEVERE CUTS AND
LACERATIONS AND PEOPLE WERE JUST BLEEDING BY NOW MAYBE 10 OF US WE WERE JUST DIDNT HAVE ANY OBVIOUS
SIGNS OF INJURIES THAT COULD SEE ON MYSELF BUT OTHER PEOPLE WERE BLEEDING
WE WENT INTO THIS LOCATION OF BUSINESS WHERE THE LADIES CAME OUT AND FOUND OUT IT WAS DISTRIBUTION
PLACE FOR NAPKINS AND TABLE CLOTHS FOR RESTAURANTS WE
WAS
13

EQUIPMENT
WHATSOEVER
SOMEBODY APPARENTLY FOUND SOME FACE MASKS AND
DESHORE
THEIR RIAPKIRI TO BANDAGE PEOPLE UP SOMEBODY FOUND LONG BOARD AND WE PUT THE INJURED FIREMAN ON
HE WAS SEVERELY INJURED BLEEDING FROM THE REAR OF HIS NECK OR OCCIPITAL AREA IN THE BACK OF HIS HEAD
POLICE OFFICERS NOW CAME IN AGAIN MAYBE BY NOW WE WERE 12 THINKING WAS FIRE DEPARTMENT AND HAD THE FIRE DEPARTMENT HELMET ON WAS CHOSEN TO RUN THE
OUTFIT THERE BECAUSE KEPT TELLING THEM BRING ALL THE WOUNDED IN HERE THAT YOU CAN FIND WE STARTED
BANDAGING THEM UP AND SO ON THE OFFICER SAID DO YOU HAVE ANY AMBULANCES SAID HAVE NOTHING WE HAD NO
WE ATTEMPTED TO PUT THEM ON BUT THEY HINDERED US FROM BREATHING EVEN MORE AND WE JUST COULDNT BREATHE IT
AFTER BANDAGED EVERYBODY UP AND EVERYBODY WAS SORT OF CALM IN THE LOCATION LIKE SAID MAYBE
10 12 PEOPLE NOW NOW ALSO HAD TWO ELDERLY FEMALES THAT WERE PART OF THAT BUSINESS THERE SO WE HAD
MAYBE 12 INDIVIDUALS WENT OUTSIDE TO SEE WHAT
OUT BY NOW IT WAS GRAYISH THEY
BECAME LITTLE LIGHTER
THE OFFICER SAW THAT THERE WAS LITTLE MARINA
WENT ACROSS THERE TO TRY TO GET THE BOATS THAT WERE DOCKED THERE STARTED AND THEY COULDNT
14

DESHORE
COULD DO WHEN AWTHE ECONID BUILDING OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER STILL UNBEKNOWN TO ME THE FIRST ONE HAD
COLLAPSED
SOMEWHERE AROUND THE MIDDLE OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER THERE WAS THIS ORANGE AND RED FLASH
COMING OUT INITIALLY IT WAS JUST ONE FLASH THEN THIS FLASH JUST KEPT POPPING ALL THE WAY AROUND THE
BUILDING AND THAT BUILDING HAD STARTED TO EXPLODE THE POPPING SOUND AND WITH EACH POPPING SOUND IT WAS
INITIALLY AN ORANGE AND THEN RED FLASH CAME OUT OF THE BUILDING AND THEN IT WOULD JUST GO ALL AROUND THE
BUILDING ON BOTH SIDES AS FAR AS COULD SEE THESE
POPPING SOUNDS AND THE EXPLOSIONS WERE GETTING BIGGER GOING BOTH UP AND DOWN AND THEN ALL AROUND THE
BUILDING
WENT INSIDE AND TOLD EVERYBODY THAT THE
OTHER BUILDING OR THERE WAS AN EXPLOSION OCCURRING UP THERE AND SAID THINK WE HAVE ANOTHER MAJOR
EXPLOSION DONT KNOW IF WE ARE ALL GOING TO BE SAFE HERE TOLD THEM CANT FORCE YOU BUT DONT KNOW
IF WE ARE GOING TO BE SAFE HERE IM GOING TO TRY TO
GET AS FAR AWAY FROM THIS BUILDING AS POSSIBLE UNBEKNOWN TO ME HALF BLOCK DOWN WAS THE WATER
NOW WE ARE PICKING UP THIS INJURED FIREMAN
15

DESHORE
IT TOOK TO CARRY HIM WE ARE PICKING UP ALL THE INJURED WE TOOK THE TWO ELDERLY LADIES FROM THE
BUILDING WITH US AND NOW 10 12 OF US 14 OF US ARE GOING OUT OF THE BUILDING AND FURTHER DOWN ONLY TO GET
DOWN TO THE WATER
DOWN AT THE WATER WAS ONE EMS PERSON SAW
HIS FIRE DEPARTMENT UNIFORM WITH HIS HANDS OVER HIS
EARS YELLING CANT FIND MY PARTNER HAS ANYBODY SEEN MY PARTNER AND HE IS JUST RUNNING BACK AND FORTH HE
WOULDNT STAND STILL LONG ENOUGH FOR ME TO EVEN SPEAK WITH HIM HAD ANOTHER EMS PERSON LATER ON FOUND
OUT HE IS FROM BATTALION 20 HIS NAME IS KEMP THE LAST NAME IS KEMP THERE WERE TWO LADIES THERE THAT
APPARENTLY HAD BEEN JOGGING UP AND DOWN THIS EAST RIVER OR WEST RIVER WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT AND THEY
WERE IN LITTLE JOGGING SHORTS JOGGING IN COULDNT STOP THEM TRIED TO STOP THEM
FIND OUT IF THEY WERE INJURED OR ANYTHING STOP THEM
CIRCLES YOU TRIED TO COULDNT
SO HERE THESE EXPLOSIONS ARE GETTING BIGGER AND LOUDER AND BIGGER AND LOUDER AND TOLD EVERYBODY
IF THIS BUILDING TOTALLY EXPLODES STILL UNAWARE THAT
THE OTHER BUILDING HAD COLLAPSED IM GOING IN THE WATER SAID CAN SWIM IM TAKING SOMEBODY WITH ME
16

DESHORE
ARID HOLD THEM BECAU IT WA MAYBE FOOT DROP
JUST THEN SMALL JERSEY BOAT IT WAS JERSEY POLICE OFFICERS AS THOUGHT ENTERED THIS LITTLE
MARINA BY THEN THE DARKNESS HAD TURNED TO GRAY AND THERE WAS LIGHT ON THE OTHER SIDE BUT YOU COULDNT
MAKE OUT THAT LIGHT MAYBE BECAUSE MY EYES WERE THAT BAD COULDNT SEE THAT GOOD BUT THERE WAS LIGHT AND
THE BOAT CAME IN DONT RECALL THAT HAD TO GO DOWN SOME STAIRS TO GET TO THAT BOAT SAW THAT LATER ON
WHEN WENT TO VISIT THE SITE ABOUT MONTH LATER
WE WENT DOWN WE CARRIED EVERYBODY DOWN THE
ELDERLY LADIES GOT ON THE FIREMAN WAS PUT ON BOARD
AND THE EMS PERSON MAYBE 10 BOAT HAD NOT GOT ON THE
BOAT YET THERE WERE
SERGEANT WHAT THOUGHT WAS SERGEANT AS IM
AND THE POLICE OFFICERS 12 14 PEOPLE GOT ON THE
STANDING AT THE DOOR TO ME AND PARDON ME FOR MY
THE BOAT THE SERGEANT YELLS AT LANGUAGE WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU
OFFICERS TWO OFFICERS AND ONE
GOING TO DO NOW ARE YOU GOING TO COME OR NOT IM STILL STANDING THERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT MY NEXT
MOVE SHOULD BE WHEN THE SAME SERGEANT SAYS FUCKING SHIT ITS COMING AT US AND THATS QUOTE
AGAIN DIDNT SEE WHAT WAS HAPPENING BEHIND ME BUT KNOWING OF ALL THE EXPLOSIONS THOUGHT HERE
17

DESHORE
WA ANOTHER EXP1O COMING ARID THILI OUTNID AGAIN ARID THIS WAVE OF THIS FORCE AGAIN JUST JUMPED ON THE
BOAT CLOSED THE DOOR WITH MY LEFT HAND AND JUST SANK DOWN TO MY KNEES HERE WHATEVER IT WAS JUST CAME RIGHT
AT US AGAIN THE SERGEANT IS YELLING AT THE ONE OFFICER THE SECOND OFFICER WAS IN THE BACK WITH SOME
OF THE PEOPLE THAT HAD BEEN IN THE BACK OF THE BOAT HAD NO CLUE WHAT WAS GOING ON BACK THERE THE SERGEANT
IS YELLING AT THE SECOND OFFICER GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE IM SORRY FOR USING
THAT WORD REPEATEDLY THE POOR GUY BEHIND THE STEERING WHEEL IS SAYING CANT GO ANY PLACE WE ARE TIED ON THAT IS ABOUT WHAT SAVED OUR LIVES BECAUSE
THIS FORCE CAME AT US AND HIT US WITH EVERYTHING THE BOAT WAS ATTEMPTING TO OVERTURN AND IT KEPT HITTING IN
THE BACK AGAINST THE PIER AGAIN WAS JUST BY THEN WAS RESIGNED TO DIE DIDNT MIND DYING
BECAUSE WAS WITH OTHER PEOPLE YOU KNOW AND THE GUY BEHIND THE STEERING WHEEL JUST SANK TO HIS KNEE AND THE
SERGEANT JUST STOOD AT THE OTHER DOOR HAVE NO CLUE HOW LONG THAT LASTED WAS MY BACK WAS TOWARDS IT
AND AS IM SITTING IN THIS CORNER THERE WAS JUST RESIGNED THIS IS IT IT CANT HAPPEN TO ME SECOND TIME WE WERE THIS TIME WAS DIFFERENCE WE WERE
18

DESHORE
CAPABLE OF BREATHING ARID WA WITH SOMEBODY WHEN AGAIN DONT KNOW HOW THE WINDOW
DIDNT GET BROKEN OR HOW THE BOAT WASNT OVERTURNED NOTHING HAPPENED REALLY BUT WHEN ALL OF IT QUIETED
DOWN AGAIN THE SERGEANT OPENED THE DOOR AND HE GOT OUT AND HE UNTIED THE BOAT AND BY THE TIME THIS STARCHED INDIVIDUAL WITH THE STARCHED UNIFORM CAME IN HE WAS COVERED WITH EVERYTHING HE TOLD US THIS GUY WHO
OFFICER WHO FINALLY GOT OFF THE FLOOR JUST GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE NOW HE SAID CANT SEE WHERE IM GOING HE SAID JUST TURN THE BOAT TO THE LEFT AND EVERY TIME YOU HIT SOMETHING TURN IT TO THE LEFT AND TURN IT TO THE LEFT AND TURN IT TO THE LEFT TILL
YOU GET OUT IN THE OPEN WATER AND WHEN YOU GET OUT JUST
KEEP GOING THATS EXACTLY WHAT THIS OFFICER DID
AS WE FINALLY GOT OUT OF THIS SMALL OPENING
OF THAT MARINA YOU COULD SEE THE LIGHT IN NEW JERSEY BECAUSE HE APPARENTLY WAS BY THEN WAS GOING IN THAT DIRECTION GOT UP FROM THERE BECAUSE APPEARED TO BE IN THE WAY GOT UP FROM THERE AND WENT DOWN INTO THAT SMALL CABIN THAT WAS DOWN THERE AND HE WAS
THEY APPARENTLY HAD TAKEN THROWN THE FIREMAN AND LONG BOARD DOWN INTO THAT CABIN THE FIREMAN HAD COME OFF THE LONG BOARD AND WAS JUST LAYING THERE HE WAS
19

DESHORE
TI11 BLEEDING PROFU
WENT DOWN THERE AND STRAIGHTENED OUT HIS
LEG THE LONG BOARD WAS LAYING HALF WAY GOING UP THE STAIRS AND PEOPLE WERE JUST SITTING AND HANGING THERE AND BY THEN THEY HAD GOTTEN BACK ON TO THE TOP OF THE BOAT AND THE BACK STRAIGHTENED OUT HIS LEG AND
HE HAD ALL THE STUFF COMING OUT OF HIS POCKETS
SORRY
AND SAID TO HIM IM GOING TO EMPTY OUT YOUR POCKETS
BECAUSE YOU GOT THEY LOOKED LIKE HOSE CONNECTIONS METAL AND EVERYTHING IN HIS POCKETS AND HIS TURNOUT COAT AND TOOK EVERYTHING OUT AND THREW IT TO MY
THERE WAS LIKE BENCH OR AN AREA THERE
JUST THREW IT HE STILL HAD HIS HELMET ON HE WAS LAYING IN HIS OWN BLOOD AND HE SAYS TO ME JUST IM ALL RIGHT MY NAME IS BOB SO SAID TO HIM MY NAME IS KARIN AND WE JUST HELD HANDS SO WE JUST HELD HANDS TILL WE GOT OVER TO JERSEY
WHEN WE GOT OVER TO JERSEY THEY TOLD ME TO GET THE HELL OUT OF THE AREA AND SAID CANT GET UP RIGHT NOW JUST COULDNT GET UP DIDNT HAVE THE STRENGTH TO GET UP THEY CAME AND GOT BOB AND THEY PUT HIM ON THE LONG BOARD SAW THEM TURN HIM OVER TO MY SIDE THEY PUT THE LONG BOARD AND THE OF THEM GOT BOB UP AND STILL COULDNT GET UP THEY CAME AND THEY
RIGHT
20

DESHORE
PIIY STOOD ME UP COULDNT GET UP DID WALK UP THOSE ABOUT STAIRS UP AND GOT TO THE TOP OF THE BOAT AND THEY WERENT READY FOR US IN JERSEY
WE WERE THE FIRST BOAT TO GET OVER THERE THERE WAS NOBODY THERE THE COPS KEPT YELLING THERE WERE COPS THERE THE COPS KEPT YELLING JUST GIVE HIM
YOUR HAND GIVE HIM YOUR HAND PUT YOUR
HEAR ALL OF THIS COULDNT REACT
DO IT BUT COULD HEAR THEM SOMEBODY
RIGHT HAND AND GAVE IT TO SOMEBODY AND THEY TOOK ONE OF MY LEGS AND THEY PUT IT UP THERE AND GAVE IT TO SOMEBODY MEAN THEY PUT IT UP AND THEY PULLED ME UP AND THEY PUSHED ME UP THEN SOMEBODY CAME AND JUST ASSISTED ME AND THEY PUT SOME SHEETS OVER ON THE PIER AND THEY PUT ME RIGHT THERE DONT KNOW WHAT
HAPPENED TO ANYBODY ELSE THEY STARTED COMING IN MEDICAL TEAMS AND DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO BOB
SO WE WERE JUST LAYING THERE AND AGAIN THEY GAVE US WATER AND THEY IRRIGATED OUR EYES AND IT JUST
MADE IT WORSE BY THEN WE WERE VOMITING SOME OF US WERE VOMITING BLOOD AND SO ON BUT APPEARED TO BE ONE
OF THE BETTER ONES OFF BECAUSE THEY HAD TRIAGE TAGS
AND STARTED MAKING OUT TRIAGE TAGS AND PUTTING IT ON EVERYBODY JUST THEIR NAMES AND LADDER COMPANY OR
21
FOOT UP CAN KNOW DIDNT FINALLY TOOK MY

DESHORE
ENGINE ARID EMS ARID CIVI1IANI ARID MADE TRIAGE TAGS UP
FOR EVERYBODY
MAYBE 45 MINUTES TO AN HOUR LATER THEY GOT
NOT AMBULANCES BUT SOME VANS TO TAKE US TO JERSEY CITY MEDICAL CENTER OF US WHEN WE GOT THERE THEY HAD
JUST SET UP SOME KIND OF AN AUDITORIUM OR WHATEVER THEY TOOK US INTO THE AUDITORIUM AND THEY PROCEEDED TO
TREAT US WITH GOT ALBUTEROL TREATMENTS AND GOT AN INJECTION THEY GOT AN OPHTHALMOLOGIST AND THEY CLEANED OUT MY EYES AND MY EARS WERE JUST DONT KNOW COULDNT EVEN HEAR ANY MORE PROBABLY FROM ALL THE NOISE
MY PROBLEM WAS REFUSED TO GIVE UP MY HELMET WOULD NOT SURRENDER MY HELMET BECAUSE
DIDNT KNOW WHEN THE NEXT THING WAS GOING TO COME
SOMEBODY DROPPED AN OXYGEN TANK AND OF US HIT THE DECK MEAN JUST GOT OUT OF THAT WHEELCHAIR AND
THREW MY SELF ON THE GROUND LOOKING FOR SOMEPLACE TO HIDE CAN REMEMBER THAT
BUT THE MOST UNBELIEVABLE THING IS THAT WHEN LOOKED DOWN MY RIGHT FOOT HAD NO SOCK ON FOUND MY SOCK IN MY POCKET TO THE BEST OF MY RECOLLECTION
AS CHILD WAS ALWAYS TOLD BY MY GRANDMOTHER IF YOU EVER HAVE TO JUMP IN THE WATER TAKE YOUR SHOES AND
22

DESHORE
OCK OFF BECAU IT WILL PULL YOU DOWN THINK IN
ANTICIPATION OF JUMPING IN THE WATER STARTED TAKING MY SHOES AND SOCKS OFF AND THEN SAW THE BOAT COME AND
PUT MY SHOE BACK ON THATS THE BEST CAN REMEMBER AFTER TREATMENT WE WERE TAKEN UP TO
CONFERENCE ROOM WHERE THEY HAD GATHERED ALL FIRE PD AND EMS PEOPLE SAW SOME REALLY TRAUMATIZED
INDIVIDUALS BY THEN HAD THIS ONLY SURVIVOR SYNDROME HADNT HEARD SEEN OR ANYBODY FROM MY UNIT MY FEELING OF SENDING CHARLIE WELLS AND THOSE TWO LADIES INTO THAT BUILDING BECAUSE BY THEN PEOPLE SAID THAT BOTH BUILDINGS HAD COLLAPSED AND HAD FIGURED THAT EVERYBODY WAS IN THERE IT JUST TOOK TOTAL MENTAL TOLL ON ME UNTIL MAYBE SOMETIME IN THE AFTERNOON AROUND OCLOCK AL TOURO WAS BROUGHT IN THE PARAMEDIC FROM FLUSHING
WE SAW EACH OTHER AND WE JUST STOOD THERE AND WE HUGGED AND WE CRIED WE JUST CRIED HAD BEEN UNABLE TO GET ANY KIND OF MESSAGE TO MY FAMILY BECAUSE THE PHONES WERE OUT MY HUSBAND WORKS OVER AT
BATTALION 47 IN THE ROCKAWAYS THE LAST TRANSMISSION FROM ME WAS THAT HAD LOST ALL OF MY PEOPLE THAT
WAS WITH INDIVIDUALS AND WAS TRYING TO EVACUATE
THEM AFTER THAT THERE WAS NO MORE TRANSMISSION EVEN
23

DESHORE
THAT APPARENTLY DIDNT GET TLIROUTGLI TO PEOPLE
LIEUTENANT GLEESON HERE WENT TO THE COMMAND
CENTER HERE HE INITIALLY HAD ME DECLARED MISSING
THEN MISSING AND POSSIBLY DEAD AND THEN DEFINITELY CONFIRMED PASSED AWAY THAT OF COURSE REACHED MY
FAMILY AND THEY HAD VERY HARD TIME TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT HAD HAPPENED
MY HUSBAND LEFT WORK THAT EVENING AT
OCLOCK AFTER DOING 12 HOURS TOURS HE IMMEDIATELY CAUSED AN ACCIDENT AND TOTALLED THE CAR HE HAD TO BE PICKED UP BY ONE OF MY CHILDREN DANIELLE AND SHE BROUGHT HIM HERE AND THAT WAS ABOUT 830 OCLOCK THAT EVENING WHEN REACHED THEM FOR THE FIRST TIME AND TOLD THEM WAS ALIVE
BY 10 OCLOCK THAT NIGHT MINISTER FROM JERSEY GOT BUS FROM SOMEWHERE AND BECAUSE THE CITY
WAS CLOSED DOWN WE GOT AN ESCORT FROM THE JERSEY CITY POLICE AND WE WERE ALL BROUGHT BACK TO SOMEWHERE IN NEW YORK WHERE WE WANTED TO GO REACHED HERE AT 1030
THAT NIGHT THAT WAS FOR THE FIRST TIME MY FAMILY
REALLY KNEW THAT WAS ALL RIGHT
WE WERE ALLOWED TO TAKE SHOWERS AT THE
MEDICAL CENTER BECAUSE BY 200 IN THE AFTERNOON ALL THAT SOOT THAT WAS COVERING US HAD CREATED TOTAL RASH
24

DESHORE
ITUTATIORI THINK STOOD UNDER THAT IIOWER FOR DONT EVEN KNOW HOW LONG BUT COULDNT GET IT OFF
FOUND DEBRIS INSIDE MY CLOTHES THAT WAS JUST UNBELIEVABLE HOW IT GOT THERE IT JUST CANT BE EXPLAINED MY UNIFORM WAS TOTALLY GRAY IT WAS
COVERED WITH SOOT THAT CANT EXPLAIN
WAS MY VISOR ON MY HELMET WAS CRACKED BUT THINK WAS ONE OF THE BETTER ONES THAT GOT AWAY AS FAR AS INJURY WAS CONCERNED
IM ALIVE ANYTHING ELSE CAN TELL YOU
QUITE STORY QUITE AN EXPERIENCE
WELL IT HASNT LEFT ME YES PEOPLE CAME
HERE TO GIVE US COUNSELING AFTER WHILE WHILE FELT THEY HAD THE BEST OF INTENTIONS AFTER WHILE
JUST SIMPLY HAD TO TELL THEM PLEASE DONT COME HERE NO MORE BECAUSE IF YOU COME HERE AND YOU SIT LIKE YOU ARE SITTING ACROSS FROM ME AT THE DESK AND ASK ME ONE MORE
TIME HOW DO YOU FEEL DO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT WILL GO OFF THE DEEP END
THE ONLY PEOPLE WANT TO TALK TO IS THE PEOPLE THAT WERE THERE WITH ME WHAT HAS REALLY HELPED ME WAS TO KNOW THAT NOBODY IN MY UNIT GOT KILLED OR SERIOUSLY INJURED THE MOST THEY HAD WERE FRACTURES RABBI BIRNHACK CONFIRMED THAT ALL THE HATZOLAH
WHAT IT EVEN
25

DESHORE
VO1UTRITEER UTRVIVED SPOKE TO ALL OF THE OTHER PEOPLE THAT WERE WITH ME AND THEY ALL SURVIVED WAS
SO GRATEFUL THAT CHARLIE WELLS SURVIVED HE WAS THE FIRST ONE FROM MY UNIT INTO THAT BUILDING
HAVE PROBLEM WITH THE WHOLE SITUATION STILL WISH THE FIRE DEPARTMENT WOULD COME AROUND
WITH PROFESSIONALS AND NOT PEOPLE THAT ARE FROM LOCAL COUNSELING SERVICE OR WHATEVER EXCUSE ME FOR
MOMENT MY CONCERN REALLY WAS THAT NO ONE FROM THE FIRE DEPARTMENT MADE ANY KIND OF EFFORT TO EVEN FIND OUT HOW WE WERE DOING DIDNT GET PHONE CALL DIDNT SEE MY CHIEF UNTIL SATURDAY WEEK AFTER THAT WHICH IS 10 DAYS LATER
EVEN RECEIVED PHONE CALL FROM MR VELEZ THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF ELMHURST HOSPITAL AT MY HOME
BUT NO ONE FROM EMS CONTACTED ME TO FIND OUT HOW WAS
DOING THERE WAS GREAT CONCERN HERE ABOUT SOME OTHER
PEOPLE WHICH AFTER HAD GONE THROUGH ALL THE PROBLEMS HAD TO HANDLE BECAUSE AGAIN NOBODY WAS AVAILABLE TO
HANDLE ANYTHING AT THE FACILITY HERE CONCERNING THE OTHER INDIVIDUALS THAT HAD GONE THROUGH THIS TRAUMA
TO THIS DAY HAVE NOT BEEN ASKED DO NEED ANY COUNSELINGS FROM SOME CERTIFIED PEOPLE OR DO WISH TO PARTICIPATE IN COUNSELINGS WITH GROUP ELMHURST
26

DESHORE
HO IIA OFFERED ME COUTRI ERVICE WHICH
WILL ACCEPT BUT FEEL MORE OF AN EFFORT SHOULD HAVE
BEEN MADE ASSIST US
YOU WOULD
BY THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OR THE EMS COMMAND TO THAT WENT THROUGH THIS
ANYTHING ELSE CAN HELP YOU WITH
NO MAAM UNLESS YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE THAT
LIKE TO ADD
IM RETIRING
MAY SAY CONGRATULATIONS ON THAT
THANK YOU
INVESTIGATOR TAMBASCO THANK YOU FOR YOUR
INTERVIEW CAPTAIN THIS INTERVIEW CONCLUDES AT 0633 AM
27

FILE NO 9110193
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW CAPTAIN JANICE OLSZEWSKI
INTERVIEW DATE NOVEMBER 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

OLSZEWSKI
MR MURAD TODAY NOVEMBER 7TH
2001 THE TIME IS 845 MY NAME IS MURRAY
MURAD
MR CUNDARI IM GEORGE CUNDARI
MR MURAD OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE
DEPARTMENT IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH
CAPTAIN OLSZEWSKI JANICE OLSZEWSKI CAPTAIN EMS OPERATIONS
MR MURAD THE LOCATION OF THE
INTERVIEW IS AT NINE METROTECH AT THE BUREAU
OF INVESTIGATIONS AND TRIALS AND THIS IS REGARDING THE EVENTS THAT OCCURRED ON
SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
CAPTAIN CAN YOU JUST TELL US WHAT
OCCURRED ON THAT DAY
AT WHAT POINT DO YOU WANT ME TO START
FROM UPSTAIRS WHEN YOU HEARD WHAT
HAPPENED WHERE WERE YOU FROM THE BEGINNING WAS SITTING AT MY DESK HERE AT
METROTECH ON THE SEVENTH FLOOR AND THE PAGERS CAME OVER THAT THERE WAS PLANE INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER SO WENT DOWN TO THE END OF THE
HALL TO LOOK OUT THE WINDOW AND YOU COULD SEE

OLSZEWSKI
THAT IT HAD HAPPENED THE FIRST PLANE INTO THE BUILDING
SO WENT WITH IN MY SEDAN WAS USING
THE SITE SO WE GRABBED
DOWN THERE WE WENT ACROSS THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE
AND ARRIVED AT VESEY AND WEST DONT REMEMBER
EXACTLY WHERE PARKED THE CAR REALLY DONT IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN RIGHT AT VESEY AND WEST IM
PRETTY SURE BUT IM NOT TOO THINK
SO WE GOT OUT AND WE WERE IN THE
OF ONE WORLD TRADE WE WERE CLOSE TO ONE WORLD TRADE AT THAT POINT AND WE WENT OVER
AND WE BUMPED INTO CHIEF GOMBO BRUCE AND HE ASKED US TO GO TO THE OTHER SIDE SO WE RAN DOWN VESEY AND GOT TO VESEY AND CHURCH LEFT MY CAR
WHERE HAD ORIGINALLY PARKED IT
WE MET UP WITH LIEUTENANT DAVILA IN HIS
SUBURBAN AND HE WAS ALREADY STARTING TO SET UP
AT FULTON AND CHURCH TRIAGE AREA RIGHT NEXT
TO THE MILLENNIUM HOTEL ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE TRADE CENTER THE TOWERS SO THATS WHERE WE ASSISTED IN SETTING UP THE TRIAGE AREA FOR THE PEOPLE BEING EVACUATED OUT OF THE BUILDINGS
VICINITY
LIEUTENANT BRUCE MEDJUCK MARKED SEDAN DOWN TO
FEW RADIOS AND WENT

OLSZEWSKI
TLILI WA TI11 THE FIRST PLANE HAD LILT
BY THE TIME WE GOT THERE EN ROUTE THE SECOND PLANE HAD HIT FIRST PLANE HAD HIT
WE WERE ON OUR WAY WHEN WE GOT THERE WE LOOKED UP AND SAW NOW THE TWO HOLES SO BY THEN THE
SECOND PLANE HAD HIT SOMEWHERE WHILE WE WERE
DRIVING THERE IT HIT
SO NOW THEY BOTH HAD HIT AND WE WENT
OVER TO THE OTHER SIDE TO START PATIENT CARE OVER THERE SO WE SET UP THE TRIAGE AREA OVER THERE
IN FRONT OF THE MILLENNIUM HOTEL AT CHURCH AND FULTON
CHURCH AND FULTON
UH HUH
YOU HAD GOOD VIEW OF THE TOWERS YEAH
PEOPLE WERE BEING EVACUATED AND UNITS
STARTED TO COME IN FROM ALL AGENCIES AS WELL AS
MORE SUPERVISORS SO AS MORE SUPERVISORS CAME IN WE WERE ASSIGNING THEM TO EACH SECTOR WE
SET UP VIRTUALLY ALL THE SECTORS WE CAN SET UP AND WE STARTED TO GET GOING WITH TRIAGE WITH TRIAGE TAGS SETTING UP AREAS WHERE PEOPLE WERE MORE BADLY HURT THAN OTHERS TELLING OTHER PEOPLE

OLSZEWSKI
TO JU KEEP GOING IF THEY WERE RELATIVELY ALL RIGHT
LOT OF PEOPLE IN THAT AREA
YEAH THERE WERE WHAT WERE TALKING
ABOUT HERE THE TIME LINE FOR ME BEING THERE IN PARTICULAR WAS SOMETHING LIKE 30 TO 35 MINUTES
SO WE WERENT ABLE TO DO TOO MUCH WE WERE GOING
PRETTY GOOD FOR WHAT IT WAS THOUGH WE WERE STARTING TO SET UP THOSE SECTORS WE WERE
SETTING UP THE SECTORS STAGING TREATMENT TRANSPORT TRIAGE
THE PEOPLE WERE POURING OUT OF THE BUILDINGS AND LOT OF THEM WERE COMING OVER TO
OUR AREA CANNOT ESTIMATE HOW MANY ITS
IMPOSSIBLE THEY WERE ALL OVER THE PLACE THEY WERE ON THE CORNER WE WERE TRYING TO KEEP THEM
CORRALLED IN OUR AREA BUT OTHER AGENCIES WERE BREAKING OFF INTO OTHER LITTLE TRIAGE AREAS
THINK THERE WAS ANOTHER ONE OVER ON LIBERTY AND CHURCH ANOTHER SECTION THERE WE HEARD AROUND THE CORNER
SO THERE WERE THINGS SORT OF HAPPENING ALL OVER SO ITS KIND OF HARD TO GET AN ESTIMATE OF HOW MANY PATIENTS WERE IN THAT AREA

OLSZEWSKI
CAN AY IN OUR AREA IT WA TARTIRIG TO BECCIUC OVERWHELMED THAT CORNER THERE WERE STARTING TO
HE SO MANY FIGURED WERE GOING TO HAVE HUNDREDS OF PATIENTS COMING OUT AND WERE GOING
TO HAVE TO HAVE ALTERNATIVE AREAS TO HAVE THEM GO BECAUSE IT WAS TOO SMALL RIGHT AT THAT
POINT THE FIRST BUILDING COLLAPSED THE SOUTH TOWER
THE SOUTH TOWER YEAH
SO AS WE HEARD IT START TO COLLAPSE AND
AS WE SAW IT COLLAPSING WE OR LOT OF US
RAN EAST ON FULTON TO GET AWAY THEN THE CLOUD CAUGHT UP AND WE ALL JUST SCATTERED AND DID OUR BEST TO GET OUT OF THERE ENDED UP ON BROADWAY AND FULTON AND WENT NORTH ON BROADWAY KEPT GOING NORTH ON BROADWAY
SET UP AN INITIAL WELL ACTUALLY AMBULANCES START TO COME DOWN NOW SOUTH ON
BROADWAY THAT WERENT INVOLVED IN THE COLLAPSE THESE WERE FRESH PEOPLE COMING IN ALREADY ALL
KINDS OF UNITS AGAIN COMING SOUTH ON BROADWAY MET UP WITH FEW OF THEM AT SOMETHING LIKE WARREN WARREN AND BROADWAY
WALKED DOWN THAT FAR AND WAS NOT

OLSZEWSKI
ANYBODY WHO WOULD ILITENI TO ME DIII WANT THEM TO GO TOWARDS THE AREA YET DIDNT THINK IT WAS SAFE DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON THOUGHT MORE COULD BE HAPPENING DOWN THERE DIDNT KNOW IF IT WAS AN EXPLOSION DIDNT KNOW IT WAS COLLAPSE AT THAT POINT
IT WAS AN EXPLOSION OR SECONDARY DEVICE
BOMB THE JET PLANE EXPLODING WHATEVER
SO DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS HAPPENING SO
WAS ATTEMPTING TO STOP PEOPLE FROM GOING IN UNTIL WE COULD GET SOMEBODY BACK ON THE RADIO
REESTABLISH NEW COMMAND POST AND KNOW THAT IT WAS SAFE SO WAS TELLING THEM NOT TO GO DOWN
SOME STILL WENT IN SOME DIDNT
WERE THERE RADIO TRANSMISSIONS AT THAT
TIME
DONT REMEMBER BECAUSE DIDNT HAVE ONE AT THAT POINT WAS PRETTY SHOCKED AND
STUNNED AND WAS CHOKING AND COVERED WITH DUST WAS DAZED AND DONT REMEMBER THAT DIDNT HAVE
RADIO SO DONT KNOW
SO AT THAT POINT YOU HEARD THAT THE
SECOND HEARD THE RUMBLING AGAIN AND THAT WAS THE SECOND COLLAPSE SO NOW THATS ABOUT
THOUGHT

OLSZEWSKI
WHAT 1030 THAT WA ABOUT 1030 NOW THEN HEARD IT AGAIN YOU STILL DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS HAPPENING BUT YOU COULDNT MISS THE RUMBLING SOUND SO YOU KNEW SOMETHING ELSE WAS HAPPENING
SO KEPT GOING NORTH ON BROADWAY AGAIN TURNED AROUND AND SAW THE CLOUD COMING
DOWN AGAIN SO STARTED TO RUN AWAY FROM THAT CLOUD AGAIN GOT LITTLE FURTHER NORTH UP BROADWAY NOW MORE AMBULANCES ARE COMING SOUTH ONE OF THEM STOPPED WAVED FLAGGED ONE DOWN ONE OF THEM STOPPED GOT IN AND
SAID TURN AROUND AND JUST GO NORTH BECAUSE DONT KNOW WHATS GOING ON DOWN THERE ITS TOO DANGEROUS LET TRY TO GET LITTLE FURTHER NORTH
SO THEY DROVE ME NORTH TO WHITE
BROADWAY AND WHITE THERE THE CLOUD HAD NOT COME THAT FAR WE GOT OUT OF THE CLOUD AND THE MIST AND WE SET UP PATIENT COLLECTION AREA THERE ABOUT FIVE MORE AMBULANCES STOPPED THERE AND WE SET UP AND WERE TREATING PATIENTS THAT WERE
COMING OUT
NOW STARTED HEARING THINGS ON THE RADIO BECAUSE THERE WERE RADIOS AROUND ME NOW

OLSZEWSKI
ARID BORROWED ONE FROM SOMEBODY FROM UMA IT
WAS THE FREQUENCY THAT SUPERVISORS WERE ON
HEARD CHIEF KOWALCZYK AND HE STARTED SAYING THAT
THERE WAS WEST AS
SOMETHING
ASKING FOR
ASKING FOR UNITS ON CITYWIDE GUESS DONT KNOW IF THERE WAS CITYWIDE BUT KNOW THEY WERE
ASKING
FOR UNITS TO COME BACK
SO THE FIVE OR SO UNITS THAT WERE WITH
NEW COMMAND POST AT CHAMBERS AND REMEMBER TO BE THE NEW COMMAND POST
SO FIGURED REESTABLISHED
WE HAVE
SUPERVISORS
AND UNITS
THEY WERE
OKAY ITS SAFE OVER THERE HE WAS
ME WANTED TO GO BACK IN SO SAID OKAY GO AHEAD GO IN THEY STARTED HEADING OVER
LEFT ONE UNIT THERE TO KEEP TREATING THE PATIENTS THAT WERE STILL TRICKLING OUT BY THEN THERE
WERENT REALLY MANY AND THEY WERE FINE THEY WERE PRETTY OKAY SO LEFT ONE THERE
JUMPED IN ONE OF THE AMBULANCES GOING OVER AND SAID CAN YOU TAKE ME TO THE COMMAND
POST THEY SAID SURE AS THEY DROVE ME
OVER WE GOT AS FAR AS ABOUT WEST AND KNOW THERES CHAMBERS ON HERE BUT DONT SEE IT
WHATEVER YOU RECALL

OLSZEWSKI 10
WHATEVER DONT REMEMBER DONT IS IT FURTHER NORTH
CHAMBERS IS HERE
DONT THINK GOT DIDNT GET
THAT FAR
SOMEWHERE THERE WERE SO MANY EMERGENCY VEHICLES TRYING TO GET IN THERE WAS LITTLE BIT OF BACKUP SO ONLY GOT ABOUT THERE
SEE IT
GOT STOPPED ON WEST AROUND HERE
GOT OUT OF THE AMBULANCE AND BUMPED INTO CHIEF OFFICER WHO INSISTED
GO TO THE HOSPITAL HE JUST BASICALLY PUSHED ME INTO
THE AMBULANCE AND SAID NEEDED TO GO SO WENT TO THE HOSPITAL AT THAT POINT WAS TAKEN OVER TO NYU MEDICAL CENTER TO BE TREATED
WHEN GOT OUT MADE MY WAY BACK HERE HITCHED RIDE BACK HERE WITH ANOTHER
SOME SORT OF CITY VEHICLE AND WORKED HERE OVER
NIGHT UNTIL IN THE MORNING
BASICALLY AFTER THE COLLAPSE YOU DIDNT
SEE MANY PATIENTS
WELL THE PATIENTS SAW
WHILE YOU WERE THERE
OH YOU MEAN BEFORE THE COLLAPSE AFTER THE COLLAPSE

OLSZEWSKI 11
AFTER THE COLLAJME THE PATIERIT AW
WERE BASICALLY ON WHITE AND BROADWAY COMING OUT OF THE COLLAPSE AND CLOUD THAT NEEDED TO BE
TREATED FOR WHATEVER INJURIES SMOKE INHALATION THEY HAD WE TREATED APPROXIMATELY 30
AFTER THAT LIKE SAID WENT TO THE HOSPITAL SO NO
ON THE ORIGINAL COLLAPSE YOU JUST SAW THE CLOUD START COMING AT YOU OR YOU SAW SOME OF
THE TOP OF THE BUILDING START COMING DOWN WASNT FACING IT SOME PEOPLE SAY
THEY SAW IT TILTING AND GOING WASNT FACING AND WASNT LOOKING SO DIDNT SEE THAT BUT
DID HEAR IT AND THEN TURNED AROUND BY THEN THE CLOUD HAD OBLITERATED THE BUILDING SO YOU COULDNT SEE IT GOING DOWN
NOT THAT YOU WERE STANDING THERE
WAITING AND WATCHING YOU WERE RUNNING THE ONLY CHANCE YOU HAD TO GET AWAY WAS TO RUN SO THERE
WAS NO WATCHING JUST HEARD IT SAW THE CLOUD
DONT KNOW FOR THAT SORT
PATIENTS AGAIN
OF THING WHILE WE WERE WAITING TO HEAR SOMEBODY COME BACK ON THE RADIO AND LET US KNOW WHERE WE SHOULD GO

OLSZEWSKI 12
KNEW OMETIIIRIG CATA HAD HAPPENED ARID TRIED TO GET AWAY
ELSE NO
MR MURAD THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW ID LIKE TO THANK YOU CAPTAIN
FOR PARTICIPATING
THE TIME NOW IS 0855 AND THIS
CONCLUDES THIS PORTION OF THE INTERVIEW
ANYTHING

FILE NO 9110194
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMS LIEUTENANT BRADLEY MANN
INTERVIEW DATE NOVEMBER 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

MANN
MR MURAD TODAY
2001 THE TIME NOW IS
IS MURRAY MURAD
DUN WE ARE CURRENTLY SITTING WITH LIEUTENANT
LIEUTENANT MANN BRADLEY MANN
MR MURAD AND YOUR RANK
LIEUTENANT MANN LIEUTENANT
MR MURAD WHERE DO YOU WORK LIEUTENANT MANN CHIEF OF DEPARTMENTS
UNIT
MR MURAD THIS INTERVIEW IS
CONDUCTED AT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT
OFFICE PLANNING
HEADQUARTERS AT THE BUREAU OF INVESTIGATIONS AND TRIALS AND THIS IS IN REGARDS TO THE
TRAGIC EVENT ON SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001 LIEUTENANT MANN WILL YOU GIVE YOUR
ACCOUNT
WAS WORKING THE DAY TOUR
APPROXIMATELY 10 MINUTES OF WAS SITTING IN MY CUBE WITH CAPTAIN ABDONAHMOD THE WINDOW IN
MY CUBE OVERLOOKS MANHATTAN
AS WE WERE SPEAKING THOUGHT HEARD SOME TYPE OF NOISE ABDO AND TURNED AROUND AND
NOVEMBER 7TH
1047 HOURS MY NAME
WITH RICHARD
BEING

MANN
LOOKED CUIT THE WINDOW ARID AW THICK BLACK SMOKE BILLOWING FROM THE TOP OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
WALKED AROUND THE CORNER TO CHIEF NIGROS OFFICE TOLD HIM TO LOOK OUT THE
WINDOW WALKED DOWN THE HALL TO CHIEF GANCIS OFFICE AND TOLD HIM TO LOOK OUT THE WINDOW
CHIEF GANCI TOLD ME TO GET EVERYBODY TOGETHER GET AS MUCH EQUIPMENT AS WE COULD FIND AND WE
WOULD MEET IN MANHATTAN
GRABBED LIEUTENANT JOHN NEVINS FROM
THE DOCUMENT CONTROL UNIT WE WENT TO THE EMS COMMAND WHERE WE SECURED ABOUT SIX RADIOS AND AS
MANY HELMETS AS WE COULD FIND WE WENT DOWNSTAIRS TO THE STREET WAITED OUTSIDE THE BUILDING AND WE GOT INTO VEHICLE WITH CHIEF CASSANO THE CITYWIDE TOUR COMMANDER AND WE RESPONDED INTO MANHATTAN THAT WAS APPROXIMATELY 10 MINUTES TO WHEN FIRST LOOKED OUT THE WINDOW
PROBABLY
GOT UP
WOULD SAY THAT WE LEFT HEADQUARTERS ABOUT 905 AM
WE DROVE INTO MANHATTAN WE CROSSED THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE FROM MID SPAN ON THE
BROOKLYN BRIDGE FROM WHAT WE COULD SEE IT LOOKED LIKE JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING FROM THE 70TH

MANN
FLOOR ON UP WA ON FIRE
CHIEF CASSANO WAS MAKING SOME PHONE
CALLS AND LIEUTENANT NEVINS AND WERE
DISCUSSING SOME THINGS IN THE CAR AS TO WHAT OUR
ROLE MAY BE SEEING AS WE DIDNT KNOW WHAT OFFICERS WERE ALREADY ON THE SCENE
WE ARRIVED IN MANHATTAN WE CAME OVER THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE WENT DOWN PARK ROW AND DROVE ACROSS MURRAY STREET TO SOUTH BROADWAY CHIEF CASSANO PARKED HIS CAR ON THE CORNER OF SOUTH BROADWAY AND VESEY
WE EXITED THE CAR WE PUT ON OUR HELMETS AND OUR TURNOUT COATS LIEUTENANT NEVINS
AND MADE RIGHT TURN AND HEADED WEST ON VESEY STREET BETWEEN WTC AN WTC BY THAT POINT ALREADY DEBRIS WAS FALLING FROM THE TOWERS ACTUALLY WAS HIT IN THE BACK BY AN UNKNOWN BODY
PART
DONT KNOW WHAT IT WAS
WE HEADED WEST ON VESEY STREET TO THE
INTERSECTION OF WEST STREET AT THAT POINT SAW LIEUTENANT DAVILA FROM BATTALION WHO AT THAT POINT WAS THE EMS COMMAND OFFICER ASKED HIM
WHAT HE NEEDED AND HE ASKED ME TO ASSIST HIM TO SET UP THE EMS STAGING AREA

MANN
AT THAT POINT LIEUTTENIANIT NEVINI ARID ESTABLISHED AN EMS STAGING AREA ON VESEY STREET
BETWEEN WEST STREET AND WEST END AVENUE WE HAD APPROXIMATELY 50 TO 60 AMBULANCES ON THE STREET AT THAT POINT AND WE WERE IN THE PROCESS OF ORGANIZING THEM AND KEEPING TRACK OF WHO WAS THERE
AS TIME WENT ON MORE STAFF CHIEFS ARRIVED CHIEF GOMBO ARRIVED HE TOOK COMMAND OF THE INCIDENT WE SPOKE WITH HIM AS TO WHAT TYPE OF ACTION HE WANTED US TO TAKE AND HE TOLD US AS SOON AS WE HAD COUNT ON HOW MANY UNITS WE HAD ALS AND BLS TO LET HIM KNOW AND HE WOULD REQUEST RESOURCES AS HE NEEDED THEM
WOULD SAY PROBABLY ABOUT MAYBE HALF HOUR OR SO LATER ALL OF SUDDEN WE HEARD ROAR AND LOOKED AT LIEUTENANT NEVINS AND HE LOOKED AT ME AND WE LOOKED UP AND THE NEXT THING WE KNEW THERE WAS ANOTHER PLANE AND IT CRASHED INTO THE OTHER TOWER
WE WERE IN THE STAGING AREA THE ENTIRE TIME SHORTLY BEFORE THE FIRST TOWER CAME DOWN
REMEMBER FEELING THE GROUND SHAKING HEARD TERRIBLE NOISE AND THEN DEBRIS JUST STARTED

MANN
FLYING EVERYWHERE PEOPLE STARTED RUTRIRLIRIG TOWARDS THE STAGING AREA
BY THAT POINT WE PROBABLY HAD 70 OR 80 AMBULANCES AND VEHICLES IN THE STAGING AREA PEOPLE WERE JUMPING IN THEIR VEHICLES TRYING TO DRIVE AWAY FROM THE SCENE AND LIEUTENANT NEVINS AND INSTRUCTED EVERYBODY TO LEAVE THEIR
VEHICLES AND RUN WEST AS FAR AS THEY COULD UNTIL THEY COULDNT RUN ANYMORE
THE RATIONALE BEHIND THAT BEING IS IF EVERYBODY TRIED TO GET OUT IN VEHICLE AT THE
SAME TIME OBVIOUSLY THE STREET WOULD BE CLOGGED AND NOBODY WOULD BE ABLE TO GET OUT AND AS IT TURNS OUT GOOD MAJORITY OF THE VEHICLES THAT WE TOLD PEOPLE TO LEAVE WERE CRUSHED ON VESEY STREET JUST WEST OF WEST STREET
BY THE TIME THE DEBRIS SETTLED FROM THE FIRST COLLAPSE WE STARTED TO WALK BACK EAST TOWARDS WEST STREET AND FEW MINUTES LATER
DONT REMEMBER THE TIME FRAMES BECAUSE WE WERE SO BUSY IN TRYING TO ACCOUNT FOR WHO WAS IN
THE STAGING AREA AND WHO WASNT WE BASICALLY HAD THE SAME THING THE GROUND SHOOK AGAIN AND WE HEARD ANOTHER TERRIBLE NOISE AND THE NEXT
REALLY

MANN
THINK WE KNEW THE ECORID TOWER WA COMING DOWN AND AGAIN WE WERE RUNNING FOR OUR LIVES ON VESEY
STREET
WE RAN AS FAR AS WE COULD TURNED THE CORNER AT WEST END AVENUE AND TOOK SHELTER IN THE LOBBY OF AN OFFICE BUILDING WHERE WE MEET MET UP WITH LOT OF THE OTHER CHIEFS CHIEF GOMBO CHIEF KOWALCZYK AND WE DISCUSSED SOME FURTHER ACTIONS PLANS AS TO WHAT WE WERE GOING TO DO SEEING AS WE KNEW WE WERENT OPERATING IN SAFE AREA AND WE DECIDED THAT WE WERE GOING TO ESTABLISH NORTH STAGING AREA AT CHELSEA PIERS
AT THAT POINT MYSELF AND CHIEF KOWALCZYK AND AN UNKNOWN EMT RESPONDED IN AN
AMBULANCE BELIEVE IT WAS JAMAICA AMBULANCE WE GOT RIDE UP TO CHELSEA PIERS
WHERE WE BEGAN TO SET UP
STAYED AT CHELSEA PIERS FOR THE NEXT THREE OR
FOUR HOURS ORGANIZING UNITS AND HAVING RESOURCES READY TO BE CALLED SOUTH
AND THEN SOMETIME IN THE AFTERNOON
PROBABLY OR 300 WAS REQUESTED TO REPORT BACK DOWN TO CHAMBERS STREET AND WAS PUT TO WORK ON THE COMMAND REPORT AND THATS PRETTY
STAGING AREA
HOSPITAL

MANN
IRTUIDI IT WE JU STARTED DOING IIIFT WORK AT THE COMMAND POST FROM ABOUT 300 PM ON THE 11TH FOR THE NEXT ABOUT TWO AND HALF WEEKS AND THATS REALLY IT
MR MURAD RICH ANY QUESTIONS MR DUN NO
WERE YOU OPERATING WITH RADIOS
WE DID HAVE RADIOS DONT EVEN KNOW
WHO GOT IT FROM TO BE HONEST OH IM REMEMBER WHEN TOOK IT WE WERE ON CITYWIDE
WAS THE STAGING OFFICER AND UNTIL CHIEF GOMBO
TOOK OVER WAS COMMUNICATING WITH LIEUTENANT DAVILA
MR MURAD ANY OTHER QUESTIONS
LIEUTENANT MANN
GIVING THE INTERVIEW THIS CONCLUDES THE
AND THE TIME NOW IS 1055 HOURS THIS CONCLUDES THIS PORTION OF THE
INTERVIEW THANK YOU
INTERVIEW
APPRECIATE YOU
SORRY

FILE NO 9110195
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW ASSISTANT CHIEF JOSEPH CALLAN
INTERVIEW DATE NOVEMBER 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

CALLAN
FIRE MARSHAL STARACE TODAYS DATE NOVEMBER 2001 THE TIME IS 1440 HOURS THIS IS MICHAEL STARACE FIRE MARSHAL NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH CHIEF CALLAN
COULD YOU STATE YOUR COMMAND AND ASSIGNED COMMAND AND RANK
ASSISTANT CHIEF JOSEPH CALLAN CITYWIDE TOUR COMMANDER
FIRE MARSHAL STARACE ALSO IN THE ROOM IS
FIRE MARSHAL CAMPBELL PATRICK FIRE MARSHAL
CAMPBELL
CHIEF GOING BACK TO SEPTEMBER 11 FROM EARLY ON HOW YOU BECAME AWARE OF THE FIRST PLANE HITTING
UNTIL AFTER THE SECOND COLLAPSE
AT OCLOCK THAT MORNING RELIEVED CHIEF
DONALD BURNS AS THE CITYWIDE TOUR COMMANDER SHORTLY THEREAFTER WHILE MONITORING THE RADIO THERE WAS SECOND ALARM TRANSMITTED FOR FIRE IN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AND ON THE RADIO HEARD REPORT OF PLANE CRASH INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER IMMEDIATELY PROCEEDED TO LEAVE THE OFFICE AND RESPOND AND RESPONDING AT THE SAME TIME WITH ME WAS CHIEF OF THE DEPARTMENT GANCI CHIEF NIGRO WHICH WAS THE CHIEF OF

CALLAN
UPERATIORI AT THE TIME CHIEF CACHIEF BUTRRI ARID FEW OTHER CHIEFS
SHORTLY THEREAFTER WE ARRIVED AT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER CHIEF GANCI ASSIGNED ME TO TAKE COMMAND
OF THE NORTH TOWER AND HE ASSIGNED CHIEF DONALD BURNS TO TAKE COMMAND OF THE SOUTH TOWER GETTING OUT OF MY
CAR PUTTING MY GEAR ON THEN WENT AND DID RECONNAISSANCE OF THE EXTERIOR OF THE NORTH TOWER
SAW WE HAD NUMEROUS FLOORS ON THE UPPER LEVELS ON FIRE APPROXIMATELY EIGHT FLOORS WITH FIRE SHOWING AS WAS GOING AROUND THE FAR SIDE OF THE NORTH TOWER THEN SAW THE SECOND PLANE HIT THE SOUTH TOWER
IMMEDIATELY WENT INTO THE LOBBY OF THE NORTH TOWER TO TAKE COMMAND OF OPERATIONS IN THE LOBBY OF THE NORTH TOWER IN COMMAND WAS CHIEF PETER HAYDEN AND CHIEF JOE PFEIFER
TOOK COMMAND AND WE STARTED ASSIGNING ADDITIONAL UNITS TO THE UPPER FLOORS GAVE THEM INSTRUCTIONS THAT WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE EXTINGUISHING FIRE WHAT WE WERE GOING TO DO IS ASSIST IN EVACUATING THE BUILDING NUMEROUS UNITS ARRIVED THEY WERE SENT UP AND PUT TO WORK JOINED AT THE TIME WAS IN THE LOBBY WE HAD VERY LITTLE COMMUNICATION VIA HANDY TALKY DURING THE TIME WAS IN THE LOBBY WITH THE UNITS

CALLAN
ON THE UPPER FLOORS BECAUSE OF THE BUTILDINIG
CONSTRUCTION THE ELEVATORS WERE NOT WORKING NOR WERE ANY OF THE BUILDING COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS SO WE HAD VERY LITTLE CONTROL OR CONTACT COMMUNICATION WISE
WITH THE UNITS THAT WERE ON THE UPPER FLOORS
40 MINUTES AFTER ARRIVED IN THE LOBBY MADE DECISION THAT THE BUILDING WAS NO
LONGER SAFE AND THAT WAS BASED ON THE CONDITIONS IN THE LOBBY LARGE PIECES OF PLASTER FALLING ALL THE 20 FOOT HIGH GLASS PANELS ON THE EXTERIOR OF THE LOBBY WERE BREAKING THERE WAS OBVIOUS MOVEMENT OF THE BUILDING AND THAT WAS THE REASON ON THE HANDY TALKY GAVE THE ORDER FOR ALL FIRE DEPARTMENT UNITS TO LEAVE THE NORTH TOWER
APPROXIMATELY
TEN MINUTES AFTER THAT WE HAD COLLAPSE OF THE SOUTH TOWER AND WE WERE SORT OF
BLOWN UP AGAINST THE WALL IN THE LOBBY OF THE NORTH
TOWER AND WE GATHERED TOGETHER THOSE OF US WHO WERE STILL ABLE TO CHIEF PFEIFER GAVE THE ORDER FOR
EVERYBODY MAYDAY FOR EVERYBODY TO LEAVE THE NORTH TOWER AND WE THEN PROCEEDED TO TRY TO FIND OUR WAY OUT
OF THE LOBBY OF THE NORTH TOWER
APPROXIMATELY TEN OF US VISIBILITY OF ZERO PROCEEDED UP THE ESCALATOR FROM THE LOBBY UP TO THE
APPROXIMATELY

CALLAN
UEZZARLIRLE WE GOT UP TO THE UEZZARIIRIE OF THE NORTH
TOWER AND WE PROCEEDED VIA AN EXTERIOR WALKWAY TO GET
TO THE ADJOINING BUILDING THEN DOWN FROM THE ADJOINING BUILDING INTO THE STREET SHORTLY AFTER WE GOT ON TO
VESEY STREET THE NORTH TOWER COLLAPSED THAT WAS THE END OF THE STORY
ITS HARD TO BELIEVE THAT THATS 30 MINUTES EVERYBODY THAT SEES THAT AND MYSELF WAS THERE TOO YOU CAN BELIEVE ITS 30 34 MINUTES CHIEF YOU HAD NOT MUCH YOU HAD SAID NOT MUCH TRANSMISSIONS ON THE HANDY TALKY
MINIMAL TRANSMISSIONS ON THE HANDY TALKY AND THINK THAT WAS BECAUSE OF THE BUILDING CONSTRUCTION
THE HANDY TALKYS GENERALLY DONT WORK GREAT IN THOSE TYPE OF BUILDINGS AND WE RELIED MANY TIMES ON ALTERNATE
TYPES OF COMMUNICATIONS AND THE BUILDING COMMUNICATION
SYSTEM IN THIS PARTICULAR OPERATION THE BUILDING SYSTEM WAS OUT OF SERVICE ALMOST IMMEDIATELY SO THAT
WAS NOT AVAILABLE TO US SO LIKE SAY BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF COMMUNICATION WE HAD VERY LITTLE CONTROL OF
UNITS ON THE UPPER FLOORS AND THAT TO ME WAS VERY LARGE PROBLEM SINCE THE FIRE WAS BURNING FOR CLOSE TO AN HOUR THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO GET OUR UNITS OUT OF THE BUILDING

CALLAN
DO YOU KNOW WHAT URIIT YOU HAD THERE
CHIEF PFEIFER AND HIS AIDE HAD COMMAND POST SET UP IN THE LOBBY AND HE WAS TRACKING THE UNITS SO
WE HAD HANDLE ON MOST OF THE UNITS THAT DID GO ABOVE THE LOBBY
HOW MANY WERE THERE ABOUT HOW MANY UNITS WOULDNT WANT TO GUESS WOULDNT WANT TO
GUESS BECAUSE MANY OF THEM WERE ASSIGNED PRIOR TO MY ARRIVAL AND UNITS WERE ASSIGNED WHILE WAS DISCUSSING
STRATEGY WITH OTHER CHIEFS IN THE LOBBY SO WOULDNT WANT TO GUESS HOW MANY THERE WERE
IS THIS IN THAT COMMAND POST ON THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF THE BUILDING
THATS WHERE BELIEVE WE WERE
WHEN YOU ARRIVED YOU SAID YOU WERE THERE FEW MINUTES BEFORE THE SECOND PLANE HIT
WAS ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING MAKING RECONNAISSANCE OF THE EXTERIOR BEFORE WENT TO THE
NORTH TOWER AND AS GOT INTO THE REAR OR SIDE OF THE NORTH TOWER SAW THE PLANE GO INTO
SOUTH SIDE OF THE NORTH TOWER
YES THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN IT THE SOUTH
SIDE THATS WHEN REALIZED THIS WAS NOT AN ACCIDENT BECAUSE UP UNTIL THEN DONT THINK ANYBODY KNEW THAT

REMEMBER
CALLAN
WHERE DID YOU PARK WHEN YOU GOT THERE DO YOU
THINK IT WAS ON VESEY STREET BUT SHORTLY AFTER WE ARRIVED MY AIDE MOVED THE CAR TO SAFER LOCATION AWAY FROM THE NORTH TOWER
DO YOU REMEMBER WHO ELSE WAS IN THE LOBBY AS FAR AS CHIEFS
WHEN GOT THERE IT WAS THE TWO CHIEFS
THERE THAT CAN REMEMBER WAS CHIEF PETE HAYDEN FROM THE FIRST DIVISION CHIEF JOE PFEIFER FROM THE FIRST BATTALION AND ALSO THINK CHIEF STEVE KING THE SAFETY BATTALION CHIEF WAS THERE KNOW THE COMMISSIONER WAS THERE WITH ME FOR FEW MINUTES PRETTY MUCH THE ONLY ONES REMEMBER
ANY THOUGHTS NO
FIRE MARSHAL STARACE WE ARE CONCLUDING THIS TAPE AT 1450 HOURS

FILE NO 9110196
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIRE MARSHAL SALVATORE RIGNOLA
INTERVIEW DATE NOVEMBER 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

MINUTES THIS IS FIRE
IT NOVEMBER 5TH HOURS AND FIVE
MARSHAL
RIGNOLA
MR STEPUNAITIS 2001 THE TIME IS 16
CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME RANK TITLE AND ASSIGNMENT
FIRE MARSHAL RIGNOLA MY NAME IS SALVATORE RIGNOLA IM NEW YORK FIRE
MARSHAL IM ASSIGNED TO CITYWIDE SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS AT 16 HOOPER STREET WHICH WE ARE RIGHT NOW ON THE FOURTH FLOOR
MR STEPONAITIS WERE CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER
2001
ALSO PRESENT IN THE ROOM IS
MR BURNS SUPERVISING FIRE MARSHAL
ROBERT BURNS SPECIAL OPERATIONS COMMAND FIRE MARSHAL RIGNOLA PLEASE GIVE US
THE EVENTS THAT OCCURRED THAT DAY FROM THE TIME THAT YOU WERE NOTIFIED UNTIL THE TIME THAT YOU LEFT THE SCENE
STEPONAITIS OF THE SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT CITY OF NEW YORK WERE
11TH

RIGNOLA
THAT DAY WA QUEENS AND RECEIVED
THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
ON AND HEARD THAT PLANE CRASHED WHILE ON MY
WAY RESPONDING TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER IM GOING OVER THE QUEENSBORO BRIDGE THE SECOND
PLANE CRASHED INTO ONE OF THE TOWERS KNOW THERE WERE TWO TOWERS THERE
PROCEEDED TO MANHATTAN DROVE DOWN THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY PARKED MY VEHICLE
AROUND MURRAY STREET WALKED DOWN TOWARDS THE TRADE CENTER AROUND VESEY STREET SAW CHIEF
FIRE MARSHAL GARCIA HE ASKED ME IF HAD
RADIO SAID YES HE ASKED ME TO GO ON IN AND CALL THE OTHER MEMBERS OF OUR BUREAU WHICH WERE ASSEMBLED NEAR THE TELEPHONE BUILDING ON VESEY AND WEST STREET THE RADIO WASNT WORKING PROPERLY AND WE NEVER MADE CONTACT WITH ANYBODY
SO WHILE WERE THERE ON WEST STREET AND VESEY SAW FIRE COMMISSIONER VON ESSEN PASS BY
FIRE MARSHAL OMARA WAS WITH HIM SAW ALSO DEPUTY COMMISSIONER TIERNEY PASS BY BECAUSE SHE
WENT UP FROM WEST TO LIBERTY STREET
IM JUST STANDING UNDER THE FIRST
CUIT IN THE FIELD IN
RADIO CALL TO RESPOND TO
HAD MY REGULAR RADIO

RIGNOLA
PEDE BRIDGE NEAR VE STREET ARID EE MY OLD FIRE COMPANY 131 SEE 101 FROM MY
BATTALION COUPLE OF THE COMPANIES THERE IM OVER THERE STANDING AND SOMEONE STARTS YELLING
THERES AN EXPLOSION ALL OF SUDDEN YOU COULD HEAR SOME WEIRD SOUND LIKE CRUMBLING ALL OF
SUDDEN EVERYBODY STARTS RUNNING
SO WENT TO THE CORNER OF VESEY AND
WEST AND THERE WAS THE ESU TRUCK WENT AGAINST THE ESU TRUCK AND ALL OF SUDDEN EVERYTHING GOT BLACK THE WIND BLEW BY MATERIAL FLEW BY ABOUT TWO MINUTES LATER IT CLEARED UP THAT WAS ABLE TO SEE
THEN SAW CHIEF FIRE MARSHAL GARCIA AGAIN HE ASKED ME TO GET ON THE RADIO AND TRY TO ASSEMBLE EVERYBODY AND GET ALL THE FIRE MARSHALS ASSEMBLED NEAR WEST AND VESEY BUT THE RADIO WASNT WORKING
STARTED CHECKING 131S RIG TO LOOK FOR MASK THERE WAS NO MASK THERE TRIED
101 WENT THROUGH THE RIG LOOKING FOR MASK THEN SAW SUPERVISOR FIRE MARSHAL DEVERY THE
FIRST THING HE ASKED ME DID YOU SEE FIRE MARSHAL BUCCA SAID NO THEN DEVERY

RIGNOLA
PROCEEDED UP WEST STREET NORTH
WAS STILL TRYING TO LOOK FOR MASKS
SO DID LITTLE SEARCH IN THE BUILDING
STILL DIDNT BELIEVE THAT THE TOWER CAME DOWN
BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK TOWARDS THAT SOUTH TOWER YOU COULDNT SEE IT WAS DUST
TRIED USING MY CELL PHONE THAT WAS DEAD WENT TO PAY PHONE CALLED MY HOUSE
TO MAKE SURE MY WIFE DOESNT GO ANYWHERE GET THE KIDS HOME
WHILE IM STANDING UP NEAR THE NORTH
PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE THE FEW PEOPLE AROUND START RUNNING AGAIN THEY SAID THE TOWER IS COMING
DOWN WHILE IM STANDING THERE YOU COULD SEE NOW
THE NORTH TOWER WORLD TRADE ONE YOU COULD SEE
IT STARTING TO COME DOWN WHILE YOURE LOOKING UP YOU COULD SEE IT COME DOWN
SO WENT TO THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET ON VESEY AND WEST WENT INTO TRUCK THINK
IT WAS LADDER 21 WENT IN THE OFFICERS
ROLLED UP THE WINDOW AND YOU COULD SEE THE STUFF COMING DOWN COVERED MYSELF DEBRIS HIT THE TRUCK WAITED ABOUT FIVE MINUTES CAME OUT AND JUST STARTED UP
SEAT

RIGNOLA
DID ANYTHING COME THIRCUIGHI THE TRUCK STUFF WENT THROUGH THE WINDSHIELD HUT
ON THE DRIVERS SIDE NOTHING HIT ME THE WINDSHIELD GOT BROKE BUT DIDNT GET SCRATCHED
RIGHT BEFORE THAT ABOUT TWO MINUTES BEFORE THAT REMEMBER SEEING CHIEF GARCIA WAS
TALKING TO LIEUTENANT SHEEHAN HE USED TO BE AN AE WITH THE PD THEY WERE AT THE CORNER OF WEST
AND VESEY THAT WAS LIKE FIVE MINUTES BEFORE THAT
AFTER LEFT THE RIG STARTED IT WAS ALMOST LIKE GHOST TOWN THEN PEOPLE
STARTED APPEARING WE STARTED SEARCHING OVER SOME OF THE DEBRIS THE NORTH PEDESTRIAN TOWER
ACTUALLY COLLAPSED BUT IT COLLAPSED ON 101 SO YOU COULD ACTUALLY WALK UNDERNEATH THE TOWER TO GET ON THE OTHER SIDE
ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS TOWER THERE WAS LIKE 15 FEET OF JUST DEBRIS REMEMBER
SEEING OTHER FIRE MARSHALS AND EVERYBODY SAYING
ALL THE MARSHALS START ASSEMBLING AT CHAMBERS AND
WEST THINK IT WAS
WENT TO CHAMBERS AND WEST AND MORE
AND MORE FIRE MARSHALS CAME THERE AND WE JUST

RIGNOLA
STOOD OVER THERE FOR WHILE ARID THIAT ABOUT IT ON THAT NIGHT WENT BACK DOWN TRIED TO MAYBE
LOOK AROUND COULDNT SEE NOTHING THATS ABOUT IT
MR STEPONAITIS THANK YOU FIRE
MARSHAL
THAT CONCLUDES FIRE MARSHAL RIGNOLAS
STATEMENT IT IS NOW 1609 HOURS
RIGNOLA

FILE NO 9110197
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW DEPUTY CHIEF THOMAS GALVIN
INTERVIEW DATE NOVEMBER 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

GALVIN
MR DUN TODAY NOVEMBER 7TH 2001 THE TIME IS 1600 HOURS MY NAME IS RICHARD
DUN OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH
DEPUTY CHIEF GALVIN DEPUTY CHIEF THOMAS GALVIN DIVISION
SIR AT THIS TIME ID LIKE YOU TO GIVE
BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
WHEN THE FIRST PLANE HIT WAS IN MY OFFICE WATCHING IT ON TV AND BASICALLY STAYED IN
THE QUARTERS BECAUSE MY QUARTERS WERE QUARTERS 421 BASICALLY NOW IM THE ACTING CITYWIDE TOUR COMMANDER AFTER THE FIFTH ALARM WAS IN
AND THEN WHEN THE SECOND PLANE HIT
THATS WHEN KNEW NO MATTER WHAT WAS GOING
ANYWAY SO LEFT QUARTERS WITH CARL ASARO WHO WAS THE DIVISION FIREFIGHTER AND BATTALION CHIEF
DENNIS DEVLIN WHO WAS THE SPECIAL EVENTS COORDINATOR HERE HE WANTED TO COME DOWN TO GIVE CARL HAND IF CARL NEEDED HAND WITH THE COMMAND BOARD
AS WE WERE LEAVING QUARTERS THATS WHEN THE DISPATCHER INFORMED ME THERE WAS FIFTH

GALVIN
ALARIA FOR THE OUTTII TOWER ARID WA THE INCIDENT COMMANDER FOR THE SOUTH TOWER
WE RESPONDED DOWN THE HENRY HUDSON PARKWAY AND WE GOT ALONG DOWN TO WEST STREET AND
WE PARKED THE CAR ON VESEY AND WEST WE PARKED ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF WEST STREET ON THE ISLAND
BETWEEN THAT SEPARATED WEST STREET THERE THERES AN ISLAND THAT SEPARATES IT
SO WERE PARKED JUST SOUTH OF WEST STREET ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE OF THE SOUTHBOUND LANES WHAT VEHICLES WERE PARKED IN FRONT OF ME WE PARKED RIGHT THERE GOT OUT OF THE CAR TOLD CHIEF DEVLIN AND FIREMAN ASARO TO GET THE COMMAND BOARD TOGETHER AND ILL MEET YOU IN THE SOUTH TOWER
AFTER TALKED TO CHIEF GANCI CHIEF GANCI WAS AT COULD SEE HIM DOWN THE BLOCK AT THE COMMAND SAW HIM DOWN IN THE DISTANCE WENT OVER TO THEM BECAUSE WANTED TO FIND OUT WHAT CHANNELS WE WERE GOING TO USE IN THE SOUTH TOWER AND TO GO OVER COMMUNICATIONS WITH THEM THAT WAS THE LAST TIME SAW THOSE TWO GUYS
WHAT CHANNEL WERE YOU WORKING ON OR DID YOU WORK ON

GALVIN
IN THE OUTTII TOWER WE WERE GOING TO WORK CHANNEL WAS GOING TO BE THE COMMAND
CHANNEL ITS THE SAME COMMAND CHANNEL AS THE
NORTH TOWER BUT WE WERE GOING TO GO TO SECONDARY TACTICAL FOR THE SOUTH TOWER
LATER ON KNOW LADDER WAS ON THE NORTHBOUND SIDE AND RESCUE WAS RIGHT IN FRONT
OF THEM ANY OTHER RIGS YOU KNOW WASNT PAYING ATTENTION TO THE RIGS WAS REALLY
LOOKING UP BECAUSE THERE WAS JUST STUFF FALLING OUT OF THE SKY DEBRIS FALLING DOWN
CONTINUED DOWN WEST STREET TO GO
TO BECAUSE THE COMMAND BOARD WAS ACTUALLY IN
WEST STREET IN THE STREET AND WAS GOING OVER TO THE FIELD COIN OFFICER WHO THINK WAS LIEUTENANT REGAN
WAS ASKING HIM WHAT CHANNELS WE WERE GOING TO USE HE WASNT TOO SURE CHIEF GANCI
HAD JUST WALKED UP BROUGHT IT UP TO HIM TOLD HIM WHY WAS THERE WE WERE GOING BACK AND
FORTH FOR SHORT TIME TO SQUARE AWAY THE CHANNELS THATS WHERE WE SETTLED ON AND
THE NEXT THING REMEMBER CHIEF
CASSANO COMES UP AND SAID LETS GET THE BOARD OUT

GALVIN
OF THE STREET SO HAD TO STOP ARID CARRY THE BOARD WITH LIEUTENANT REGAN AND WE PUT IT UP ON
THE SIDEWALK IN FRONT OF THE FINANCIAL THERE WITH THE GARAGE
WITH THE UNDERGROUND PARKING WHERE THAT EXACT LOCATION IS
BUILDING
COULDNT TELL
ITS THE UNDERGROUND PARKING
THE TIME
NO THERE ACROSS THE STREET
YOU ANYMORE
WAS THERE
LOT OF DEBRIS FALLING AT
WAS DEBRIS BY THE BUILDING
YOU COULD SEE THINGS COMING
DOWN IT WAS PARTS
OF THE PLANE AND THERE WAS REALLY NO BODIES ON THAT SIDE OF WEST STREET
BUT THERE WAS DEBRIS COMING DOWN MY INTERACTION WITH REGAN AND CHIEF GANCI PROBABLY LASTED AROUND THREE TO FIVE MINUTES WHERE WE WERE GOING BACK AND FORTH ON THE CHANNELS
CHIEF CASSANO COMES ALONG PROBABLY SPENT ABOUT THREE TO FIVE MINUTES BECAUSE AS
WAS WALKING AWAY FROM THE FIELD COIN OFFICER
SAID DO YOU KNOW WHAT COMPANIES IM USING IN THIS BUILDING HE SAID DIDNT KNOW YOU HAD
OF THE BUILDING MAYBE PARTS

GALVIN
FIFTH ALARM THEN HAD TO IT DOWN ARID HAD TO WRITE OUT THE WHOLE ASSIGNMENT FOR HIM SO HE
WAS AWARE OF WHO WAS BEING ASSIGNED TO THE SOUTH TOWER
SO AFTER THAT PERIOD OF TIME TOLD HIM OKAY IM GOING TO GO INTO THE SOUTH TOWER
AND THEY HAD ALREADY TOLD ME THAT CHIEF BARBARA WAS ALREADY IN THERE AND THINK THEY SAID CHIEF
BURNS BURNS IM NOT TOO SURE THEY TOLD ME THAT CHIEF BARBARA WAS ALREADY THE INCIDENT COMMANDER IN THE SOUTH TOWER
HAD TO GO SOUTH LITTLE BIT TO SWING AROUND TO GET ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ISLAND
THE SAFEST WAY TO GET INTO THE TOWERS WAS TO GO
THROUGH THE KEEP CALLING IT THE VISTA BUT ITS THE MARRIOTT NOW
WHEN GOT INTO THE MARRIOTT WE HAD
ABOUT TEN COMPANIES IN THERE AND REMEMBER
HEARING REPORT ABOUT PEOPLE BEING TRAPPED IN THE MARRIOTT OR THERE WAS PROBLEM WITH THE
MARRIOTT
SO WHEN GOT IN THERE GRABBED THE FIRE SAFETY DIRECTOR AND SAID LISTEN DO YOU
HAVE EVERYBODY OUT OF THIS BUILDING HE SAID

GALVIN
FIN SO GOT BOGGED DOWN IN THERE ARID
ASSIGNED 23 ENGINE
NORMALLY DESIGNATE RUN THE ELEVATORS
IT WAS GIVEN THEY COMMAND POST COMPANY THEY
SO HAD DAVID THERE AND SAID LISTEN NEED YOU TO RUN THE ELEVATORS FIND BANK
ELEVATORS WE CAN USE YOU WILL RUN THE COMPANIES UP AND DOWN ASSIGNED LADDER 13 NOW WHAT
FLOORS GAVE THEM CANT RECALL
IT WAS LADDER 13 THAT WAS IN THERE
TRUCK 54 ENGINE 65 ENGINE THOSE ARE THE ONLY COMPANIES CAN REALLY RECALL BECAUSE KNOW THE OFFICERS SO REMEMBERED SPEAKING TO THEM IT WAS 22
STORY BUILDING
GAVE EACH UNIT LIKE THREE OR FOUR
FLOORS GO UP SEARCH GET THE FLOORS EVACUATED
REMEMBER COMING IN YOU HAD TO CONSTANTLY TELL PEOPLE GO TO CHANNEL CONSIDERED THAT
PART OF THE SOUTH TOWER OPERATION WANTED TO MAKE SURE THEY WERE ALL ON THE RIGHT CHANNEL AND NOT INTERFERING WITH THE NORTH TOWER
THAT PROBABLY TOOK EIGHT TO TEN MINUTES TO GET THAT ALL STRAIGHTENED OUT IN THE LOBBY AND GET THAT GOING IM GETTING BOGGED DOWN NOW IN

GALVIN
TLILI HOTEL REALLY DIDNT THINK THAT MUTCH ABOUT IT BECAUSE KNEW ALREADY HAD CHIEF BARBARA IN FRONT OF ME IN THE OTHER ONE
AT THIS POINT THE BUILDINGS WERE STILL
STANDING
YEAH THE BUILDINGS WERE STILL STANDING YEAH THE BUILDINGS WERE INTACT
SO THEN CHIEF CASSANO CAME INTO THE BUILDING BECAUSE HE SAID TO ME WHERES YOUR
AIDE SAID THEYRE IN THERE TOLD THEM WOULD MEET THEM IN THE SOUTH TOWER BUT WANTED
TO GET THE UNITS TO CLEAR OUT THE HOTEL THE UNITS THAT WE HAD HERE
LET ME START MOVING TO THE SOUTH TOWER
AND NOW HINDSIGHTS TWENTY TWENTY WHEN YOU SEE
THE LAYOUTS OF THE BUILDINGS WASNT AWARE THE
MARRIOTT DIRECTLY INTERCONNECTS EVEN THIS
PICTURE DOESNT GIVE IT TO YOU IT DIRECTLY INTERCONNECTS INTO THE NORTH TOWER
REMEMBER SAYING TO SOMEBODY HOW DO GET INTO THE TOWER NOT REALIZING THAT THIS
INTERCONNECTED WITH BOTH AND THE GUY ACTUALLY SENDS ME TO THE NORTH TOWER AND REMEMBER GOING THROUGH THE ATRIUM AND HUGGING THE WALL

GALVIN
BECAU WHEN YOU COME OUT YOU HAD TO GO NORTH IN THE LOBBY FOR ABOUT 100 FEET AND MAKE DOG LEG TO GET INTO THIS AREA THERE WAS STUFF FALLING DOWN REMEMBER HUGGING WALL
WHEN GOT IN THERE AND IM LOOKING FOR THE UNITS AND IM SAYING WHERE IS EVERYBODY SO
GRABBED SOMEBODY AND SAID WHERES THE FIRE COMMAND STATION WHERES THE CHIEFS OH THEY ALREADY WENT OUTSIDE WHY WOULD THEY GO OUTSIDE ALREADY WHAT DIDNT KNOW IS THEY HAD ALREADY MADE THE DECISION TO TAKE THE COMMAND POST FROM THE NORTH TOWER OUT INTO THE STREET
NOW IM MAKING MY WAY BACK INTO THE
DONT THINK AT THAT TIME REALIZED
WAS IN THE NORTH TOWER JUST SAID SOMETHINGS WRONG HERE IT JUST DOESNT SEEM RIGHT
REMEMBER COMING BACK AND THERE WAS MORE DEBRIS THATS FALLING DOWN INTO THE ATRIUM IM CALLING IT AN ATRIUM BUT ITS JUST AN OPEN AREA
CONCOURSE
AN OPEN AREA THE CONCOURSE
RAN NOW INTO COUPLE MORE UNITS KNEW THEY WERE ASSIGNED TO ME FOR THE SOUTH
TOWER SAID MAKE YOUR WAY TO THE SOUTH TOWER
THING

GALVIN 10
SAID IM TRYING TO FIND MY WAY TO THE SOUTH TOWER TOO
REMEMBER RUNNING INTO TOMMY JENSEN WHO WAS CHIEF IN THE 8TH BATTALION IM
SORRY TOMMY DEANGELIS
SAID LISTEN FIND YOUR WAY TO THE SOUTH TOWER
CHIEF BARBARA WAS IN THERE JUST TAKE THE UPPER FLOORS AS BEST WE CAN JUST FIGURE OUT WHAT FLOORS YOU HAVE TO TAKE AND ILL GET UNITS TO GO INTO IT
BECAUSE WHAT WAS HAPPENING WAS THE SAFEST WAY TO COME IN FROM THE WEST STREET SIDE
OR COME FROM THE SOUTH END EVERYBODY SEEMED TO
BE COMING IN THROUGH THE MARRIOTT AND THERE WERE
LOT OF COMPANIES IN THERE
SAID NO WE HAVE TO MOVE TO THE SOUTH
TOWER NUMBER 22 TRUCK HAD JUST GONE BY ME THAT WAS WITH JERRY RILEY THE NEXT CHIEFS
REMEMBER TALKING TO FREDDIE SCHEFFOLD FROM THE 12TH BATTALION AND CHIEF JOE MARCHBANKS BECAUSE
REMEMBER SAYING WHY ARE THEY BOTH HERE QUICK IN MY MIND KNOW SCHEFFOLD WORKED THE NIGHT
BEFORE SO FIGURE HE BUFFED IT AND TOLD HIM WAS WORKING THE SOUTH TOWER AND JUST WANTED
ARID JU START GETTING

GALVIN 11
TO GET TIIE UTRIIT
WOULD SAY FROM THAT TIME MAYBE
MINUTE LATER TWO MINUTES LATER IS WHEN THE
HOTEL JUST STARTED SHAKING EVERYTHING CAME DOWN RAN SOUTH DOWN THE LOBBY AND THATS WHEN GOT CAUGHT IN DEBRIS IN THE LOBBY THERE THERE WAS JUST DUST DEBRIS COMING DOWN ALL OVER
GOT KNOCKED TO THE FLOOR WITH LOT OF PEOPLE YOU HEAR SOMEBODY SAY OKAY THE
RUMBLING STOPPED AND YOU HEAR SOMEBODY SAY THE RUMBLING STOPPED WERE ALL RIGHT WERE ALL
RIGHT EVERYBODYS OKAY LETS JUST FIND OUR WAY OUT OF HERE YOU REALLY COULD HARDLY SEE
ANYTHING
REMEMBER WE CAME UP TO METAL ROLL DOWN GATE SAID LETS GET THIS UP NEED
HELP THERE WAS LIKE FOUR OF US WHO PULLED THE GATE UP AND THERE WERE LIKE EIGHT CIVILIANS ON THE OTHER SIDE AND THEY WERE LOOKING AT US THE SAME WAY WE WERE WHAT ARE YOU DOING ON THIS
SIDE OF THE GATE SOMEBODY TOLD ME LATER THAT WAS
THE GATE THAT SEPARATED THE LOBBY FROM THE RESTAURANT
SAID RELAX KEEP LOOKING EVERYBODY
LUOVIFIG

GALVIN
KEEP LOOKING SOUEBODY SAID WE HAVE OVER HERE GOT OVER WHAT DIRECTION
WAY
12
CUIT WHERE
THINK WERE MOVING NOW IS CONTINUING MOVING SOUTH IN THE LOBBY TOWARDS LIBERTY
AND REMEMBER SEEING CLEAR DAYLIGHT WHERE PEOPLE WERE SORT OF GOING UP LITTLE
INCLINE AND GETTING OUT THAT WAY AND SOMEBODY SAID WE CAN GET OUT OVER HERE AND WENT IN THAT DIRECTION THERE WAS ANOTHER WAY WE WENT OUT THESE DOORS DOWN SOME STEPS
AND FIREMAN THERE
SEARCH ROPE
AND HOOKED THE SEARCH ROPE UP TO POLE WHERE WE WERE AND RAN THE SEARCH ROPE BACK INTO THE LOBBY COME THIS WAY COME THIS WAY AND FOLLOW THE ROPE
GOT ABOUT ANOTHER 50 FEET BACK IN THE LOBBY ABOUT 50 FEET AND RAN INTO TWO GUYS
FROM 58 ENGINE SAID LETS GET OUT OF HERE THEY SAID NO WEVE GOT OUR OFFICER THERES
GUY BOB NAGEL WHOS LIEUTENANT FROM 58 ENGINE HE WAS CAUGHT IN DEBRIS HE SAID HE WASNT PINNED
WAS GOING OUT AND THERE WAS HE HAD LIFE SAVING ROPE AND
SAID GIVE ME THE SEARCH ROPE

GALVIN 13
WE WERE TALKING TO LLU LIKE WE WERE HAVING CONVERSATION JUST LIKE THIS SAID
BOB WELL GET YOU OUT OF HERE BOB SAID IS THERE ANY WAY YOU CAN GO BACK HE SAID NO CANT GO BACKWARDS
REMEMBER GOING TO THE RIGHT THERE WERE ELEVATOR SHAFTS AND WE JUST COULDNT GET
AROUND THEM IT JUST WAS ME AND THE TWO FIREMEN SAID LISTEN ILL TIE THE SEARCH ROPE HERE
ILL GET YOU HELP BACK IN
WORKED MY WAY BACK OUTSIDE AND RAN
INTO RAY BROWN AND THE GUY FROM 113 TRUCK RAN INTO THEM ABOUT 60 FEET OUTSIDE THE BUILDING
SAID RAY WEVE GOT THIS GUY HES ALIVE WEVE JUST GOT TO GET TOOLS TO CLEAR THIS AREA OUT
GRAB WHATEVER AIR BAGS OFF ANY OF THE RIGS AROUND HERE
SAID GO YOULL SEE 65S PUMPER YOULL GO UP FEW STEPS YOU WILL SEE SEARCH
ROPE JUST FOLLOW THE SEARCH ROPE FIGURE IVE GOT HIM BEING TAKEN CARE OF UNFORTUNATELY IT
NEVER HAPPENED BECAUSE IM GETTING AHEAD OF MYSELF NOW HERE LITTLE BIT
SO KEPT WALKING OUTSIDE LOOKING TO

GALVIN 14
EE IF THERE WA ANYBODY EKE OUTT AW ALL THESE AMBULANCES TURNED OVER HALF OF THEM ARE ON FIRE
THE NEXT GUY REMEMBER RUNNING INTO IS CHIEF CARRUTHERS THINK HE JUST CAME ON THE SCENE TOLD HIM WHOEVER COULD GET OUT OF THE HOTEL GOT OUT OF THE HOTEL SAID BUT NAGEL AND
HAVE GUYS WORKING WE COULDNT EVEN FIND OUR WAY BACK TO THEIR LOCATION THERE WAS JUST SO MUCH DEBRIS AND SMOKE AND DUST IN THE AIR WE COULDNT EVEN SEE 65
MUST HAVE SWUNG OUT COULDNT BACKTRACK
SO HE LEFT
POINT TO GO BACK TO THE COMMAND POST WHERE IT WAS
SET UP ORIGINALLY AND STARTED MAKING MY WAY BACK TO THE MARRIOTT JUST TO SEE IF COULD FIND
WAY BACK IN AND THATS WHEN THE OTHER TOWER CAME DOWN AND GOT CAUGHT IN THE STREET WITH ALL THAT DIRT AND DEBRIS
THATS WHEN THOUGHT THAT THESE GUYS
DIDNT GET OUT FORGET WHAT THEY BROUGHT IN WHAT FOUND OUT LATER ON WAS THEY ALL GOT
KNOCKED DOWN IN THE DEBRIS BUT THEY ALL GOT OUT
INCHES APPROXIMATELY WE DIFFERENT WAY OR WE JUST
CARRUTHERS LEFT AT THIS

GALVIN 15
RAY BROWN GOT TAKEN TO IIO IN NEW JERSEY TWO OTHER GUYS GOT TAKEN TO HOSPITALS ELSEWHERE
BUT THE ONLY GUY THAT REALLY ASIDE FROM ASARO WAS NAGEL AND THEY STILL HAVENT FOUND HIM
REMEMBER NOW GETTING CAUGHT IN THE DIRT MORE THE DIRT FIELD ALL THE CRAP THAT
WAS FALLING DOWN FROM THE BUILDING AFTER THAT SETTLED DOWN REMEMBER NOW THE NEXT GUY RAN INTO WAS ARTIE LAKIOTES ONE OF THE SAFETY
CHIEFS IT WAS JUST ME HIM AND FEW OTHER GUYS SHOWING UP
REMEMBER GUYS JIMMY MARKETTI HE WAS BATTALION CHIEF AND CAPTAIN OF 176 AT THE
TIME HE WAS IN CIVILIAN CLOTHES AND
SAID
WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE JIMMY IT POPPED OUT BECAUSE GUYS WERE JUST SHOWING OUT THROUGH THE
CLOUDS
SO FIGURED ARTIE WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO HERE WE HAVE NOBODY TO WORK WITH THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW NICK SANTANGELO CHIEF OF
TRAINING HE SHOWED UP WITH ABOUT 25 GUYS NOW WERE TRYING TO GET WATER SUPPLY TOLD ARTIE LAKIOTES ARTIE YOU HAVE SUPPLY HERE BECAUSE IVE GOT TO GET BACK TO THE COMMAND POST WEVE

GALVIN 16
GOT TO ORGANIZE TLILI THING BETTER
FROM THERE MADE MY WAY DOWN TO VESEY
AND WEST AND THATS WHEN RAN INTO CHIEF CARRUTHERS WHO HAS NOW TAKEN CONTROL OF EVERYTHING HE WAS NOW WITH CHIEF FELLINI AND BUTLER AND CHIEFS CALLAN AND TURI SITTING ON THE ISLAND AND THEY WERE JUST LIKE COVERED IN
DEBRIS YOU COULD SEE THAT THEY WERE MENTALLY OUT OF IT
WAS PROBABLY MENTALLY OUT OF IT BECAUSE CARRUTHERS GAVE ME FEW THINGS TO DO AND
FIND OUT THINGS THAT WERE GOING ON WITH THE
SPECIAL OPERATIONS COMMAND THE PEOPLE AT THE FEMA SYSTEM TOOLS AND EQUIPMENT HE KNEW THAT
KNEW WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT SO HE PUT ME IN CHARGE OF GETTING THAT TO THE SCENE AND GETTING
PEOPLE TO GET THAT EQUIPMENT GOT ON THE
DEPARTMENT RADIO AND HAZMAT OPERATIONS SAID THEY WERE GOING TO TAKE CARE OF THAT
THE NEXT THING CHIEF CARRUTHERS SAID LISTEN WE HAVE NO COMMUNICATIONS WITH POLICE PLAZA SO HE SENT ME TO BE THE LIAISON BETWEEN THE FIRE DEPARTMENT AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AT ONE POLICE PLAZA

GALVIN 17
LEFT THE CERIE WA THERE FOR ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE HOURS AND WAS BACK AT THE
SCENE AND BASICALLY JUST HELPING THEM WHEN
GOT THERE THATS WHEN THEY PULLED EVERYBODY BACK COMPLETELY AND WERE DOING ROLL CALL
GAVE HAND TO CHIEF VISCONTI AND
SO
CHIEF FELLINI WITH THAT THAT WAS LIKE AT
THINK THATS JUST SOUTH ITS LIKE VESEY AND WEST JUST WEST OF WEST STREET WAS WHERE THEY WERE FORMING IT THEY WERE FORMING UP IN THERE
AND THEN JUST GAVE THEM HAND FOR
THE NEXT COUPLE HOURS JUST GETTING THE INTERCHANGE GETTING THE COMPANIES OUT OF THE WAY AND GETTING THE EQUIPMENT OUT OF THE WAY SO WE COULD GET THE HEAVY CRANES BACK IN
BASICALLY MADE MY WAY BACK HERE
AROUND MIDNIGHT AND BASICALLY SPENT THE NEXT TWO DAYS HERE JUST GETTING THE DIVISION BACK IN
SHAPE BECAUSE THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE AND EQUIPMENT THAT WE LOST REALLY DIDNT GO BACK DOWN THERE
UNTIL IT HAPPENED ON TUESDAY RIGHT YEAH
WAS BACK DOWN THERE WEDNESDAY NIGHT BECAUSE HAD TO DELIVER SOME DRAWINGS AND

GALVIN 18
OPERATED DOWN THERE WEDNIE NIGHT INTO TIIUTR
MORNING DOWN AT LIBERTY AND WEST IN FRONT OF THAT WOULD BE IN FRONT OF WHERE THE MARRIOTT
HOTEL IS CLEARING OUT THAT AREA WITH BUNCH OF UNITS
MR DUN THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW AT 1616 HOURS THANK YOU SIR

FILE NO 9110198
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW BATTALION CHIEF JOHN SUDNIK
INTERVIEW DATE NOVEMBER 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

SUDNIK
MR KRUG WERE DOING AN INTERVIEW
WITH BATTALION CHIEF JOHN SUDNIK ON NOVEMBER
7TH 2001 AT APPROXIMATELY 1900 HOURS REGARDING THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ON
SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
CHIEF IF YOU CAN JUST TELL ME WHAT
YOUR ACTIONS WERE AND HOW YOU RESPONDED
YOU WANT ME TO GO IN ORDER OF THIS
WENT
HOWEVER YOU GOT THERE AND WHERE YOU
RESPONDED FROM HEADQUARTERS FROM THE
SEVENTH FLOOR HEADQUARTERS RESPONDED IN CHIEF NIGROS CAR GUESS WE FOLLOWED CHIEF GANCIS
CAR CHIEF NIGRO WAS IN CHIEF GANCIS CAR WE STOPPED THE CAR PROBABLY ON FULTON STREET AND GUESS WHATS THAT TRINITY CHURCH
RIGHT
THAT AREA THERE MAYBE IT WAS
BROADWAY WE WALKED UP TO VESEY BELIEVE THE BEST CAN REMEMBER AND WALKED OVER TO WHERE THE
COMMAND POST WAS BEING SET UP WHICH WAS OPPOSITE ONE WORLD TRADE CENTER DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF
GUESS THATS THE REAR OF OR THE SIDE OF TWO WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER

SUDNIK
AT THE COURUUARID POST WITH CHIEF NIGRO CHIEF GANCI
WA OPERATING
WAS TRYING TO COULD CHIEF NIGRO
HELP OUT IN WHATEVER MANNER
GAVE ME AN ORDER TO GO BACK TO HIS CAR FIND HIS
DRIVER AND TO BRING HIS TURNOUT GEAR FOR HIM
DID THAT AND WENT BACK THE WAY CAME DOWN VESEY
STREET GUESS WAS AROUND TWO THIRDS OF THE WAY THERE AND ENDED UP RUNNING INTO HIS DRIVER WHO HAD HIS TURNOUT GEAR
AT THAT POINT THATS WHEN THE SECOND PLANE HIT HEARD THE NOISE OF THE PLANE COMING
IN AND HEARD THE EXPLOSION LOOKED UP AND FELT THE HEAT FROM THE FIRE BALL AND EVERYTHING LIKE THAT
MADE IT BACK TO THE COMMAND POST AND WAS JUST OPERATING AT THE COMMAND POST AT
THAT TIME WE HAD TWO PLANES ONE INTO EACH TOWER AND UNITS REPORTING IN WAS HELPING OUT AT SOME POINT WAS WORKING ALONG WITH CHIEF DOWNEY HE WAS GIVING ME ORDERS TO STAGE UNITS IN THE DRIVEWAY AREA BEHIND THE COMMAND POST
WAS TRYING TO GET ACCOUNTABILITY OF HOW MANY UNITS WE HAD ON THE SCENE RESPONDED
TO AN ORDER FROM CHIEF DOWNEY TO GET FIVE TRUCK

SUDNIK
GOITPAR1IE TO REPORT TO HINT ARID GUE LIE GAVE THEM AN ORDER TO GO TO TOWER TWO DONT KNOW
WHICH ONES THOSE WERE IT WAS KIND OF CRAZY AT THAT POINT
THE BEST CAN REMEMBER WE WERE JUST
OPERATING THERE TRYING TO HELP OUT AND DO THE BEST WE COULD THEN WE HEARD LOUD EXPLOSION OR
WHAT SOUNDED LIKE LOUD EXPLOSION AND LOOKED UP AND SAW TOWER TWO START COMING DOWN CRAZY
SO AFTER TOWER TWO STARTED COMING DOWN
EVERYBODY REALLY PRETTY
MUCH TOOK BEELINE INTO
THE GARAGE AREA WHERE WE WERE OPERATING ANYBODY WHO WAS OPERATING NEAR THAT COMMAND POST OR AT
THE COMMAND POST MOST GOT OUT
WHERE EVERYBODY WENT BUT KNOW LOT OF GUYS
TOOK COVER DOWN BELOW BECAUSE UNDERNEATH THAT GARAGE AREA
KNOW DID
GOT ABOUT 15 FEET INTO THE GARAGE AREA AND THERE WAS CUTOUT WAS ANTICIPATING
LOT OF DEBRIS COMING INTO THE GARAGE AREA AND JUST WANTED TO TRY TO GET OUT OF THE WAY
KNOW LOT OF GUYS HAD GOTTEN IN THERE BEFORE
DID THERE WERE UNITS PROBABLY ALREADY STAGED IN THERE
DIDNT SEE

SUDNIK
SO UTMPED INTO THE CUTOUT ARID
WAITED THERE THERE WERE TWO PEOPLE NEXT TO ME
DONT KNOW WHO THEY WERE IT JUST WENT BLACK JUST HUNG OUT THERE UNTIL THE NOISE STOPPED
SAID TO MYSELF TOTALLY EXPECTED TO BE BLOCKED IN THERE BY DEBRIS OR TRAPPED IN THERE
FOUND DIDNT HAVE ANY TURNOUT GEAR WITH ME DIDNT HAVE MASK OR ANYTHING ON ME SO
JUST FIGURED THE BEST THING
OF THERE AT SOME POINT BECAUSE
BREATHE
SO JUST WAITED UNTIL
STOPPED AND JUST SAID ALL RIGHT IM GOING TO TRY TO GO OUT THE WAY CAME HEARD LOT OF
VOICES TOWARDS THE REAR OF THE GARAGE AREA ASSUMED AT THAT POINT THAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR
DOOR
SO WENT OUT THE WAY CAME THERE WAS SOME DEBRIS THAT WAS ABLE TO GET OVER
BEFORE KNEW IT
AGAIN KIND OF
KEPT WALKING AND
IT GOT OUT THERE THERE WAS NOTHING IT WAS TOTAL SILENCE NO SIGN MEAN YOU COULDNT
WAS WALKING UP THE RAMP ASSUMED WAS OUTSIDE AND
HAD TO GET OUT COULDNT
THE NOISE
WALKED INTO TREE THAT WAS

SUDNIK
EE ANYTHING BUTT THERE WA RIO IGN1 OR ANYTHING BEING AROUND THERE OF WHAT WAS LEFT OF THE
COMMAND POST
HEARD SOME VOICES GUESS TO MY LEFT
WHICH WAS NORTH SO FIGURED WOULD TRY TO FIND OUT WHO THAT WAS AT THAT POINT IF IT WAS
SOMEBODY WAS WORKING WITH AT THAT TIME KEPT WALKING OFF AND THE DUST GOT LITTLE BIT
LIGHTER AS KEPT WALKING EVENTUALLY WALKED OUT OF WHAT WAS THE HEAVIEST PART OF THE CLOUD
THERE WERE COUPLE OF FIREMEN THAT
WERE THERE GUYS KEPT COMING OUT OF THE CLOUD THE WAY CAME FEW GUYS THEN SAW THE
MAJORITY OF THE GUYS WHO GUESS WERE AT THE COMMAND POST REMEMBER SEEING GANCIS DRIVER
STEVE MOSIELLO MIKE DONOVAN WHO RESPONDED DOWN TO THE COMMAND POST WITH ME IN CHIEF NIGROS CAR
SAW COUPLE OF GUYS FROM THE COMMISSIONERS OFFICE FROM THE EIGHTH FLOOR SAW BELIEVE IT
WAS FITZPATRICK THINK SAW FRANK GRIBBON AT
SOME POINT THATS ALL RECOGNIZED
SOMEBODY GAVE ME BOTTLE OF WATER
ACTUALLY IT WAS BOTTLE OF SELTZER WAS ABLE TO WASH THE STUFF OUT OF MY EYES OUT OF MY

SUDNIK
THROAT OUT OF MY R1O ENDED UP THROWING UP COUPLE OF TIMES
WAS JUST TRYING TO GRAB GUYS AND JUST WAIT AROUND UNTIL THE GUYS WAS WORKING WITH
CAME BACK OUT OR WHATEVER TRY TO REGROUP GET
SOME GUYS TOGETHER AND START MAYBE GOING BACK AND MAKING SEARCH TRYING TO GET SOME COMMAND STAFF BACK TOGETHER
WAS TELLING GUYS THE FIREMEN THAT WERE COMING OUT OF THE OFFICES THAT WERE WALKING
OUT OF THE CARS OR OUT OF THE BUILDING GUESS
THE BUILDING THAT THEY WERE WALKING OUT OF GUESS WAS TWO WORLD FINANCIAL THEY ENDED UP
GOING THROUGH THE BACK OF THE GARAGE AND GOING THROUGH STAIRWAY AND OUT ONTO TO VESEY STREET
WAS TRYING TO GET THEM TO STAGE UP ON THE NEXT BLOCK NORTH AND THATS WHEN THE SECOND
CAME DOWN THERE WAS LITTLE BIT OF DASH TO GET AWAY FROM THAT ONE TOO BECAUSE DIDNT HAVE RADIO ENDED UP TRYING TO STAY NEAR COUPLE FIREMEN GUYS WITH TURNOUT GEAR GUYS WHO SEEMED LIKE THEY WERE THEY SEEMED OKAY BUT THEY WERE SHOOK UP
WE ENDED UP WALKING UP AROUND PROBABLY
BUILDING

SUDNIK
ALONG THE RIVER UP COUPLE B1OCK DONT KNOW WHAT STREET WE ENDED UP COMING BACK AROUND BUT
KNOW THERE WAS FENCE AN ORANGE FENCE ALONG THE RIVER HERE SO WE ENDED UP COMING UP BACK AROUND THIS WAY NORTH COUPLE BLOCKS AND BACK EAST THEY WANTED TO GET BACK TO THEY WERE ANXIOUS TO GET BACK TO THE QUARTERS OF TRUCK THEY GOT BACK TO TRUCK
CAME BACK TO THE SCENE TO TRY TO FIND OUT WHERE THE COMMAND POST WAS SOMEBODY SAID IT
WAS SET UP ON WEST BROADWAY AND VESEY STREET BELIEVE SO WALKED BACK DOWN THAT WAY AT
THAT POINT THERE WAS NOBODY FROM THE COMMAND POST THAT COULD RECOGNIZE THAT WAS WORKING WITH AT THE COMMAND POST
DONT KNOW HOW MUCH LATER THIS WAS OR HOW LONG IT TOOK ME TO GET BACK OVER THERE
WOULD ASSUME IT WAS PROBABLY ANYWHERE FROM HALF AN HOUR TO 45 MINUTES BY THE TIME MADE IT BACK AROUND DOWN TO WHERE THE NEW COMMAND POST WAS SET
AT THAT POINT CHIEF HARING FROM THE 8TH DIVISION WAS IN CHARGE OF THE COMMAND POST
HUNG AROUND THAT COMMAND POST WAITING TO SEE IF RAN INTO CHIEF NIGRO OR CHIEF GANCI
UP

SUDNIK
OR CHIEF DOERICY NOBODY KNEW WHERE ANY OF THEM WERE JUST HUNG AROUND THERE AND TRIED TO HELP
OUT THE HEST COULD WITH WHATEVER COULD THATS ABOUT IT IT WAS AN AWFUL
EXPERIENCE
MR KRUG ALL RIGHT THANKS CHIEF

FILE NO 9110199
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW DEPUTY CHIEF PATRICK MCNALLY
INTERVIEW DATE NOVEMBER 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

MCNALLY
MR CUNDARI TODAYS DATE NOVEMBER 2001 THE TIME IS 1550 HOURS IM GEORGE CUNDARI NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT IM CONDUCTING AN INDIVIDUAL WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
DEPUTY CHIEF MCNALLY PATRICK DEPUTY CHIEF 14TH DIVISION
MCNALLY
CAN YOU PLEASE TELL US THE EVENTS THAT HAPPENED ON SEPTEMBER 11 2001
HAD JUST FINISHED WORKING THE NIGHT TOUR IN THE 14TH DIVISION WAS ABOUT TO GO OFF DUTY WE HAD
THE TV ON AND WE WERE WATCHING THE EVENTS AS THEY UNFOLDED WE HAD SEEN ONE WE DIDNT SEE THE FIRST PLANE CRASH WE JUST SAW THAT THERE HAD BEEN PLANE CRASH INTO THE TRADE CENTER WE SAW THE SECOND PLANE CRASH AND AT THAT POINT DECIDED TO GO DOWN TO THE TRADE CENTER CHANGED BACK INTO MY UNIFORM AND MYSELF AND FIREFIGHTER MIKE LASKOWSKI WHO WAS ONE OF THE DIVISION AIDES AND TOOK DIVISION VAN WITH COUPLE OF MASKS AND WENT DOWN TO THE TRADE CENTER VIA THE LIE MIDTOWN TUNNEL AND THE FDR DRIVE
WE ARRIVED AT WEST STREET APPROXIMATELY WOULD SAY BLOCKS SOUTH OF THE TRADE CENTER AND
REPORTED TO THE COMMAND POST WHICH WAS ON WEST STREET

MCNALLY
ACRO FROM THE TRADE CENTER APPROXIUATELY 50 TO HUNDRED FEET SOUTH OF THE WINTER GARDEN BELIEVE IN
THE AREA OF THE WINTER GARDEN IM NOT EXACTLY SURE ON THIS MAP THERE WAS BRIDGE ACROSS THERE WAS TWO OF THEM
WHO WAS AT THE COMMAND CENTER WHEN YOU GOT
THERE
NUMBER OF STAFF CHIEFS REMEMBER SPEAKING TO CHIEF CASSANO REPORTED AND HE SAID STAND BY FOR MINUTE WILL GIVE YOU AN ASSIGNMENT
WOULD SAY APPROXIMATELY WITHIN FIVE OR TEN MINUTES THE FIRST TOWER COLLAPSED AND WE RETREATED INTO
PARKING GARAGE DOWN RAMP WHICH WAS DIRECTLY BEHIND US AT THE COMMAND POST WENT INTO THAT GARAGE AREA
THEN CAME OUT AFTER THE COLLAPSE MYSELF FIREFIGHTER LASKOWSKI AND CHIEF DOWNEY CAME OUT FROM
UNDER THE RUBBLE THE ENTRANCE TO THE GARAGE WAS NOT BLOCKED WE WERE ABLE TO WALK RIGHT OUT UNDERSTAND
THERE WERE TWO DOORS THE OTHER DOOR WAS BLOCKED WITH DEBRIS WAS TOLD LATER ON BUT WE WERE ABLE TO WALK
RIGHT OUT TO WEST STREET
THEN BELIEVE SPOKE TO CHIEF TURI MET HIM
OUT IN FRONT HERE ON WEST STREET AND HE DIRECTED ME TO TRY TO LOCATE ANOTHER COMMAND POST FURTHER NORTH

MCNALLY
WENT UP TO THE AREA BETWEEN VE ARID MURRAY ARID ET UP COMMAND POST IN THAT AREA THERE
FEW MOMENTS LATER WAS TALKING TO CHIEF CASSANO AND WE DECIDED GO BACK DOWN SOUTH TO LOOK FOR CHIEF GALVIN WHO WE THOUGHT WAS MISSING WE WERE BETWEEN VESEY STREET AND LIBERTY CLOSER TO VESEY THAN TO LIBERTY WHEN THE SECOND TOWER CAME DOWN
WERE YOU SPEAKING WITH CHIEF CASSANO VIA
RADIO
NO FACE TO FACE IN THIS AREA HERE
WOULD IMAGINE WE WERE NORTH OF THE BRIDGE IN THAT AREA THERE THE SECOND TOWER CAME DOWN WAS ABLE TO MAKE
IT TO THE BUILDING ON THE CORNER OF VESEY AND THERE WAS CUT OUT IN THE BUILDING WAS ABLE TO GET IN THERE
AND GET OUT OF THE WAY
AFTER THAT WE REGROUPED AGAIN AND SPENT THE REST OF THE DAY ON VESEY WORKING BETWEEN WHAT
WOULD BE WEST AND WASHINGTON BELIEVE WORKED WITH CHIEF FELLINI CITYWIDE TOUR COMMANDER WORKED WITH
HIM HELPING HIM DIRECT RESCUE OPERATIONS UNTIL APPROXIMATELY OCLOCK THAT NIGHT
YOU WERE NEVER IN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ITSELF NEVER GOT INSIDE THE TOWERS
NO

MCNALLY
WA THERE RADIO COIRURTUTRIICATIORI AT THAT TIME
WERE YOU ON FREQUENCY ONE
DONT RECALL WHAT WAS ON IM ASSUMING
WAS ON ONE WE GRABBED TWO SPARES FROM HERE DONT RECALL HEARING ANY RADIO TRANSMISSIONS
WERE THERE LOT OF PEOPLE GOING TOWARDS YOU WHEN YOU FIRST ARRIVED THERE
NO FROM WHAT UNDERSTAND THEY HAD MOVED THE COMMAND POST FROM INSIDE THE BUILDING TO ACROSS THE
STREET THEY WERE ASSIGNING COMPANIES REMEMBER SAW CHIEF HART AND BELIEVE HE WAS THE COMMUNICATIONS
COORDINATOR THE BATTALION CHIEF RECALL SEEING COMMISSIONER FEEHAN IN THE SAME AREA CHIEF GANCI
THEY WERE JUST DIRECTING OPERATIONS BUT ONLY JUST GOT THERE PROBABLY NO MORE THAN TEN MINUTES BEFORE IT
HAPPENED
WERE THERE LOT OF INJURIES WHEN YOU GOT THERE AT ALL
NO THE ONLY THING THAT HAD HEARD ON THE WAY DOWN IS THAT THERE WERE JUMPERS AND THAT THEY HAD BEEN WARNED ABOUT THAT THAT PEOPLE HAD JUMPED OUT OF THE BUILDING HEARD THAT ON THE RADIO ON THE WAY DOWN ON THE FDR DRIVE
DID YOU KNOW THE TOWER WAS COLLAPSING OR YOU

COUPLE OF MINUTES
STILL CLOUDS OF SMOKE
RIGHT
COULD YOU SEE
YOU COULD SEE UP CLOSE TO CHIEF DOWNEY COULD SEE HIM
REMEMBER TALKING COULD SEE MY AIDE
MCNALLY
KNEW OUETIIIRIG WA HAPPENING
AT THE BEGINNING THOUGHT THAT MAYBE THE AREA FROM WHERE THE PLANE HIT FROM ABOVE HAD
COLLAPSED WASNT AWARE THE WHOLE TOWER HAD COLLAPSED
HOW LONG WERE YOU IN THAT PARKING GARAGE BEFORE YOU GOT OUT
AND CHIEF DOWNEY STAYED CHIEF GANCI WAS BEHIND HIM
BUT NEVER SAW HIM
YOU WENT NORTH
WENT NORTH DONT KNOW WHERE CHIEF DOWNEY WENT EITHER CHIEF GANCI WAS DISCOVERED SOUTH OF THAT WALKWAY THAT BRIDGE LATER IN THE DAY WE DISCOVERED HIM SO IM ASSUMING HE WENT SOUTH OF THE AREA IN FRONT OF WHERE THE COMMAND POST HAD BEEN
WHEN YOU WENT NORTH WERE THERE LOT OF
FIREFIGHTERS GOING NORTH WITH YOU
THERE WERENT MANY PEOPLE OUT ON THE STREET
AGAIN

MCNALLY
AT THAT POINT JU FEW DON KNOW WHERE THE REST OF THEM WERE IN OTHER WORDS THIS AREA WAS SETTING UP HERE FOR ANOTHER COMMAND POST THERE WERE NOT LOT OF FIREFIGHTERS UP THERE ONLY COUPLE
LEFT MY AIDE UP THERE AND THEN WENT BACK DOWN SOUTH
WHERE DID YOU PARK YOUR VAN
WE PARKED THE VAN SOUTH OF THE TOWERS ON
WEST WOULD SAY APPROXIMATELY BLOCKS SOUTH OF THE TOWERS
WERE YOU ABLE TO GET THE VAN OUT LATER ON
YES WE WERE ABLE TO DRIVE IT BACK IT HAD ONE BROKEN WINDOW AND IT WAS COVERED WITH SOOT BUT WE
WERE ABLE TO DRIVE IT
ANYTHING ELSE WOULD YOU LIKE TO ADD
NO WISH IT HADNT HAPPENED THATS ALL MR CUNDARI THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME
DEPUTY CHIEF MCNALLY TOLD THEM EARLIER
IT WASNT MUCH LIKE SAID BARELY GOT THERE
MR CUNDARI BEFORE EVERYTHING HAPPENED DEPUTY CHIEF MCNALLY SO WASNT AWARE OF
WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO DO AS FAR AS THE RADIO GOES DONT RECALL HEARING MANY TRANSMISSIONS
IM ASSUMING WAS ON CHANNEL ONE BUT WOULD IMAGINE THEY WOULD HAVE HAD COMMAND CHANNEL AND

MCNALLY
MAYBE ONE OR TWO TACTICALI BY THAT POINT BUTT NOT SURE
AFTER THE COLLAPSE YOU HEARD LOT OF MAYDAYS THEN RIGHT
COLLAPSES
NOT REALLY VERY QUIET AFTER BOTH UNUSUAL
MR CUNDARI THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME THE TIME IS 1555 HOURS THIS CONCLUDES THE
INTERVIEW
File No. 9110200
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
           EMT JOSEPH FORTIS
   Interview Date:  November 9, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
J. FORTIS 2
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today is November 9th,
     2001.  I'm Paul Radenberg of the Fire
     Department, City of New York.  The time is
     now 0717 hours.  I'm conducting an interview
     with --
          EMT FORTIS:  Joseph Fortis, EMT 1376.
          MR. RADENBERG:  Joseph is assigned to
     EMS Battalion 20.  This interview is being
     conducted at EMS Battalion 20 regarding the
     events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Joseph, if you would begin from when
you were assigned to the job.  You can pretty
much take it from there.
     A.   Me and my partner Mike were at the
station here.  We first put all our stuff in the
vehicle and we attempted to log on, and there was
a computer problem with our ambulance.  We heard
the dispatcher start screaming for units.  We
volunteered.
          "3 John, put the job on the screen,"
and we couldn't log on.  He just said, "Head down
to staging.  Start heading down there.  I'll give
you some more information."  We attempted to log
on a few times on the way.  We went on the
J. FORTIS 3
Bruckner southbound and started heading down
towards the incident.
          We went down the Bruckner and through
that Brooklyn Battery Tunnel underpass, the
Battery Park underpass.  We were on our cell
phones at the time, and I was talking to my
mother and so was Mike.  They told us a plane hit
the building.  We couldn't get the job up on the
screen.  We couldn't log on.  So we were getting
our information from our family.
          We went down the Bruckner to the FDR,
and then we jumped on the FDR and they closed the
highway.  We had maybe like 15 cop cars and
highway cars and 3 fire trucks and like 5
ambulances.  We headed down there.  We came out,
and we didn't know what was going on.  It was
just an accident at the time.  We came out
through the tunnel.
          When we pulled up onto West Street, the
whole world was pretty much blocked in front of
the towers.  So we actually went into the
oncoming traffic.  They had it closed down.  We
proceeded north.  They told us staging was at
Vesey and West.
J. FORTIS 4
          We got there and we backed our
ambulance -- I was, and Mike was teching.  We
backed the ambulance in.  Whoever the captain was
there at the scene asked us to just grab all our
equipment and stay with our vehicles and we were
just placed in front of the vehicles at the time.
So we did that and lit up a cigarette and waited
to see what they wanted to do.
          I believe at that time -- I can't even
tell you the time frame.  We actually heard like
the engines I guess for the second plane coming
in, and it just got louder and, boom, the second
plane hit the other tower.  We stood there and we
watched.  I guess like a fireball cloud came
down.  We were all standing on the corner I guess
by the pedestrian bridge off the corner there
with our equipment.  We were just amazed in awe.
          Everybody was running at us saying
evacuate and we're under attack kind of thing.
Then the light went on to run.  We turned around
and started running west on Vesey Street, and we
made it just past the American Express building.
          It was just coming too fast.  We
couldn't get away from that cloud per se, and we
J. FORTIS 5
ducked into the lobby of a building there.  I
believe it was between -- it might have even been
the American Express building on the corner
there.
     Q.   At this point it's the collapse of the
first building now?
     A.   No, no.  This is just when the second
plane.
Q. Okay.
     A.   The buildings were still up.  So it was
just a blast from I guess the second plane, I
think, came in, and the dust cloud just came.  We
were on the corner there, and you just felt the
heat.  Our back and all our eyebrows were all
singed and everything.  We had a little flash
burn because we were right -- I guess when it
were came were we right on West off the corner of
I guess where six was, if that was it, if this is
West Street here.
Q. Yeah.
     A.   We were actually right by the
pedestrian bridge, because when we -- the bridge
is there, and we were actually over here and the
ambulances were parked off the corner.
J. FORTIS 6
     Q.   South of the pedestrian bridge?
     A.   South of the pedestrian bridge, when I
guess the second plane came in.  So we ran.
Everybody was running down Vesey west, and that's
the way we went.  After that incident and
everybody composed themselves, a couple minutes
later everybody was just like -- it was just
chaos.
          One of the people who worked here at
the station, I believe he just finished dropping
off his girlfriend or his wife at the Trade
Center.  She worked there.  So we were actually
trying to keep him calm and keep him from running
into the building.  It actually took like three
of us to stop him from running across, just
running back into the building.  He wanted us all
to go with him.  They were like stay here, so we
stayed there.
          Then everybody composed themselves, and
we were back on the corner of -- back on Vesey
and West where the staging was, and they were
like, "Stay right here.  Stay right here.  Nobody
go towards the building."
          All of a sudden we started -- they
J. FORTIS 7
wanted us to go towards whatever building that we
were going to do triage in the lobby of -- I
don't know if it was one or two, but we were
supposed to set up a triage there.  But they
weren't too sure yet.  They were waiting for a
confirmation or something.  We had all our
equipment, and everything was already singed from
that point.
          Like I said, we started ahead like
halfway across West Street with our stuff, and
the ground started shaking like a train was
coming.  You looked up, and I guess -- I don't
know, it was one that came down first or two?
Which one?
     Q.   The first one to come down was the
south tower, number two.
     A.   Two?  We were standing on West Street,
and the ground started to shake.  You looked up,
and it looked like a ticker tape parade off the
back of the building, because all this stuff
started coming down.  We thought it was just like
all papers and everything.  Like I said, there
was pieces of body parts all over the place.
          We came halfway across the street, and
J. FORTIS 8
the building was coming down.  Everybody was
running out of the same evac, the building's
falling and ESU and everybody and everyone's
screaming "Get back!  Get back!"
          We dropped all our stuff and started
running again, west on Vesey, headed towards
Vesey and West.  Then we went west on Vesey.  We
just made the turn on I believe on North End
Street.  Just as we got to the corner, I guess
the debris from the cloud came up Vesey and up
Murray and then up and over that building that's
there.  So we actually stood up against the
building here.
     Q.   Vesey and North End?
     A.   Right, right.  The lobby is like right
there.  They didn't want us to go in the
building.  Actually everybody -- it was just
chaotic.  That cloud came, and we just leaned up
against the building and it was just -- no one
could breathe or anything.
          Then after that we -- an ambulance came
by from I think it might have been Cabrini's
ambulance, and they stopped right in front of
that building on North End Street.  We all jumped
J. FORTIS 9
in the ambulance.  Like I say, you could just see
the cloud coming up and over the building.  We
waited and the ground was shaking and all that.
We waited like two, three minutes.  We got out of
that vehicle and proceeded I guess east on Vesey
towards the buildings again.
          At that point there were -- all the
ambulances on the corner there, I believe like
the first three or four off that corner were
destroyed.  We were maybe the seventh or eighth
ambulance off the line.  So our vehicle was -- we
left it running, so it was still running at the
time.  The windows were open and all that, and a
couple windows blew out.
          I jumped in the ambulance, and we
pulled them on -- we headed westbound and parked
them in front of the building there on North End
Street.  Then I went back and we grabbed
Cornell's bus and grabbed like three other
vehicles that were all running.  I think it was
like Cabrini, Cornell and then our ambulance,
429.  At that point I didn't know where my
partner Mike went, because he went one way and I
went the other way.
J. FORTIS 10
          After that we actually went towards the
buildings there, and we were just taking people
from -- I guess from right off the front of Trade
Center one, all these people, and we would bring
them over to the ambulance and they would go.
And we would go back to almost the stairs of
building one again and just help people straight
across the street, and back and forth.
          Then everyone was screaming that it's
unsafe and everybody had to pull back.  Meanwhile
everybody was still taking people from -- helping
people from the sidewalk in front of the towers
across the street almost to Vesey and West, and
from there they were going to an ambulance or
they actually set up a triage in the American
Express building, I believe it was, on the corner
there.
          We went across to the sidewalk like
two, three times, and then when we came back the
third time they told us to stay here.  We were
going to do like -- make that like a forward
triage, this American Express building.
          It was me and my partner and Steve
Pilla and a couple other people from the station.
J. FORTIS 11
We had like those multiple oxygen mask trees on
like a big tank, and we were just bringing them
to only firemen and cops.  We didn't have any
civilians whatsoever.  We had a couple chiefs.
Everybody was just like minor cuts.  Nobody was
life-threatening.
          Everyone was hacking, so we actually
had like maybe 20 to 30 police and firemen on
like the non-re-breathers.  I think it was on in
the American Express on the corner there.
          A few minutes after that, after we had
everybody we were treating, they were shipping
them down the block.  ESU came in and said they
thought the gas lines were going to blow for the
building or something and we needed to evac out
of there immediately.
          So we just grabbed all the stuff again
and piled them on the stretchers.  Actually all
the firemen and cops were ripping off their
oxygen masks and running out of the building.  As
we got out the American Express building on the
corner there, we started running again westbound,
because everybody was just screaming, "It's going
to blow!  Run, don't walk, and just leave all the
J. FORTIS 12
equipment."
          I guess the next building came down.
Again we were like halfway up the block, and it
just came and annihilated the triage area.  I
believe two other firemen and a cop were killed
or something over there or whatever it was.
          So after that again we went back to
that building on North End and Vesey Street, the
building on the corner there.  We set up -- they
wanted to do it there, set up a forward triage
there instead.  Again we set up everything again.
There's an atrium there, and we had everything
underneath the atrium with the glass, we had to
move everything over.
          After I guess the second building came
down and that cloud came again, again nobody
could even breathe.  We had a line with breathers
on in the back of the ambulance because the
windows were missing and the cloud was just
devastating.
          After that then everybody split up.  I
don't know where Mike, my partner, went.  He
wound up I believe on the opposite side almost
over like at Trinity and Church, because we got
J. FORTIS 13
separated.  He ran left, and I ran right.  He got
to the other side.
          Then after everything was kind of
calmed down a little bit, it must have been after
10:30 then.  We were just doing, again, just
firemen and police officers.  We didn't have any
civilians whatsoever.  They were all just like
respiratory problems and minor cuts.  A couple
people were kind of critical.  So we would take
them and throw them in the ambulances.
          Then after both buildings were down, we
were actually going from right to where the
sidewalks used to be and just trying to move
things with everyone who was there and put people
into ambulances or direct them, throw a gauze pad
on their head and tell them to keep walking north
on West Street, just keep walking north.
          That's really about it.  We did that,
and then time just passed.  The next thing I
remember was I guess when the third building came
down.  We were right in front of -- I don't know
if that's a school.  We were actually still on
Vesey and West but just north of the pedestrian
bridge on the corner there.  Everybody stood back
J. FORTIS 14
right off the point where the water starts.  I
don't know where that is.  Is that right there?
Wherever the water is, there's like a little --
     Q.   This would be the marina behind it.
     A.   We were here.  I thought there was
another -- like here where the boats pull in.  I
don't know if we were all the way over here.
They actually had a couple tugboats there.
     Q.   I know it's just in behind the Winter
Garden.
     A.   Right.  On the other side of the
building here there's actually -- where's the
high school from here, Stuyvesant?
     Q.   It's further north.
     A.   When the third building came down,
that's where we were.  We were actually -- they
pulled us all back.
     Q.   Yeah, Stuyvesant is all the way up here
just north of Chambers.
     A.   They had some boats over here.
Actually they pulled us all the way back that far
at the point because they didn't want any -- they
didn't want us anywhere near it.  Everyone was
just running around.  When the third building
J. FORTIS 15
came down, we were on that corner in front of the
school, and everybody just stood back.
          They pulled us all back at the time,
almost about an hour before it, because they were
sure -- they knew it was going to come down, but
they weren't sure.  So they pulled everyone back,
and everybody stood there and we actually just
waited and just waited and waited until it went
down, because it was unsafe.  They wouldn't let
anyone next to I guess the two piles, we would
call them, where one and two was.  We stood back.
We waited.
          Then after the building came down and
the dust and everything settled, everybody
actually went back.  Everybody was just moving
things, and we were actually picking up a lot of
body parts and putting them in red bags and just
having them shipped to the morgue and this and
that.  We did that for a couple hours, and it
started to get dark.
          The next thing I remember, I was
down -- it must have been about 10:00, and they
had like a whole bunch of people from our station
were right in front of the school, Stuyvesant,
J. FORTIS 16
and they were all holding hands praying.  I
walked over and slapped them five.  I was like,
"What are you guys crying -- it's all right, you
know, things are going to get better."
          They had me, because Mike was on the
other side, and I guess at 12 he talked to
someone and said "Where's your partner?"  They're
like, "I don't know.  I think he was at -- he was
supposed to be --" we were just taking people
from the stairs of the building.  We weren't
going near the lobby.  They said it was unsafe.
They weren't too sure.
          They said, "We think the building's
safe, but don't just go anywhere yet."  They
wanted to do triage in one of the building
lobbies, but they said hold off a few minutes and
we'll see how it goes, and then things rolled
from there.
          When we split up, he said, "They told
us to go to the lobby."  So he thought I was in
the lobby of the building at the time.  It was
about 3:00 that afternoon, and our cell phones
finally went on so I called my house.  I talked
to my wife and told her I was fine.
J. FORTIS 17
          From there, like I said, I was talking
to the guys at the station and Lieutenant
Sullivan smacked me in the head and we were
laughing.  He said, "Thank God you're okay, you
moron.  We had you down because you were supposed
to be in the building."  I was joking around with
him, saying, "Well, you know it takes a unique
person to be a firefighter.  I don't run into
burning buildings that people are running out
of."
          When we were there, even my partner, we
were like just to watch all those regular people
jumping out the windows was -- we saw maybe like
10 or 12 people jump out the windows.  That was
the thing, when we get to almost the stairs when
the buildings were up, we just looked up just to
make sure, because you couldn't help but look up,
just to make sure everything wasn't coming down.
          What else can I say?  After they found
out at 10:00 that I was okay, I told Lieutenant
Sullivan I wanted to go home.  He just gave me
the keys to an ambulance that was off the corner
that was destroyed.  I boosted it, and it started
up.  It was destroyed.  I got in, and I drove and
J. FORTIS 18
I drove back to the station.
          I dropped a fireman off halfway up off
the West Side Highway.  I dropped him off
somewhere.  I don't even remember who he was.  I
dropped him off.  Then I came home by myself.  I
pulled into the garage of Battalion 20.  That's
when everyone found out I was okay.  I was on the
missing list and all this.
          Supposedly my mother was here at 12.  I
was on the phone with her at about 10 to 9, 5 to
9, saying I'm on my way down.  She works in
Brooklyn.  Like I said, they were telling us what
was happening.  So when the phone went dead, she
came here to the station from home.  It was 12,
12:30.
          Whatever transpired here, they said,
"Well, we can't get in touch with everybody, but
we think everyone's fine," this and that.
They're like, "He's not even down there."  She's
like, "Don't tell me he's not down there.  He
told me he was in front of it," because we
weren't logged onto the computer, so it didn't
show that 03 John was there.  That's how that
started.
J. FORTIS 19
     Q.   What was your partner's last name?
     A.   Negron, Mike.  He doesn't want to talk
about it.
     Q.   Okay.  No problem.
          When you came out of the Battery Park
and coming up West Side Highway, did you park on
West Side Highway or --
     A.   I parked right on Vesey right off West
Side Highway.  There was maybe one, two, three,
four ambulances off the corner, and then, boom,
we were the fifth one right there, because we
were directly in front of the entrance of the
American Express building.
     Q.   Right.  Then you staged down just
south --
     A.   Just south of the bridge.
     Q.   -- of the bridge, on the west side of
the street?
     A.   Right.  Then as people were coming out
and were having difficulty coming out down the
stairs -- because they really didn't want us to
cross the median.  That was kind of like, "Guys,
just don't cross the median for a few minutes."
          Everybody wanted to help, but they
J. FORTIS 20
really had it under control.  I've been here ten
years, and there was a reason for them to tell me
to stay there.  I pretty much followed the rules.
     Q.   Right.  When you arrived at West and
Vesey, do you remember seeing EMS officers down
there, other personnel that you recognized?
     A.   When we came up -- when we were coming
north on West Street, we had the windows open.
It was so funny, I remember Mike looking out the
window going, holy, you know, look at that shit.
He was looking out the window, out the passenger
window.  There were so many vehicles parked from
Liberty all the way to Vesey on the north side of
West Street, heading north on West Street, that
you just couldn't get by.
          I always like to leave myself an out.
They told me to get to Vesey and West anyway, so
that's where I was going.  There's like a little
island there, a little sidewalk.  It must have
been just south or actually over here by wherever
we came out on Cedar.  I came into the southbound
lanes, because it was shut down anyway, and just
drove all the way up to Vesey and West and backed
the ambulance in right there.
J. FORTIS 21
          So when we came by, we saw all the --
there was a couple I think it might have been
like Cabrini and a Metro Care ambulance, a lot of
the private ambulances and the fire companies
were all right in front of -- right on the north
side of West Street there, and we just drove
right past all of them, because we were supposed
to be on Vesey and West, because you always leave
yourself an out.
Q. Yeah.
     A.   All those vehicles were parked there.
I don't remember who it was, but we saw I believe
there was Deshore from the academy, from EMS.
     Q.   Captain Deshore?
     A.   Captain Deshore.  They were heading
towards -- everyone was running across in front
of us, and we were still going to Vesey and West.
It looked like her and a bunch of other EMS
workers.  There was someone else from -- I
believe his last name is Joseph, one of the other
new guys here.  I thought I saw him go by and one
of the medics from the south.  I only know his
first name is Joe.  They were all going towards
the site.  We were still trying to get to Vesey
J. FORTIS 22
and West at the time.
          So we just backed the vehicle up there
and, like I said, put our equipment in the front.
Just as I was ripping tape to put 03 John on the
windshield, I guess that's when we heard the
turbines or whatever.
     Q.   The second plane?
     A.   The second plane per se.  We didn't
even know it was that until afterwards, until
days after.
Q. Right.
     A.   The people you were with, it was Chris
Attanasio and Roland.  They were like, "Oh, no,
dude, that was" -- the first thing we heard was
the plane coming in, because then we were there
for the other collapses.  I didn't even realize
it because it was just chaos and everybody was
just scared, to be honest with you.
          Like I said, when that blast came out,
everybody got this little sing.  Even like the
little bands on our jackets just melted right
off, the reflective bands.  We just dropped
everything when the cloud came, composed
ourselves, and went back to the site again.
J. FORTIS 23
          Then the rest of the day between
whatever, 4 and 10, after I guess the third
building went down, they said it was okay.
Everybody was really on like the bucket thing and
on the pile, just moving debris for a couple
hours.
          Then when I went to go get a soda, then
I was relieved.  They sent me home.
     Q.   After the second hit, you came back
pretty much to the same area south of the
pedestrian bridge?
     A.   Yeah, after the second plane hit we ran
to North End Street and Vesey and waited until
the blast went by, went back to where we
originally staged and moved all the ambulances
back around the corner.  Then we went after that
and just with our equipment in the stretchers
stood over here and waited because they wanted to
keep the vehicles out to the side.  They were
just like, "Grab whatever equipment you can."
     Q.   You were back down on West, south of
the pedestrian bridge?
     A.   Yeah, by the bridge.  Actually just
north of the bridge, because the bridge was
J. FORTIS 24
annihilated at that point.
     Q.   When the treatment area was set up in
the American Express building, that was after the
first collapse?
     A.   After the first collapse.  We must have
been in that building for not even like -- it
probably was a while, like 10, 15 minutes, but it
just seemed like for a minute or two.  I guess
the big one's an H tank.  We had the multiple
trees, and all I did was rip off the
non-breathers and people just coming in, just
policemen, firemen.  We started doing our thing.
          Like I said, all of a sudden ESU came
in and said the building was unsafe and we needed
to get out of that building because they thought
that the gas lines were going to go.
          From there we moved again back to North
End and Vesey in whatever building that was
there.  That's where we started to do another
triage, forward triage thing.  There was a little
construction there, and the water's right there.
So they said, okay, maybe it's not safe there.
One building was still up.
          What happened was everyone was just
J. FORTIS 25
taking vehicles and taking people and heading
northbound.  We stayed there for a few.  It was
me and my partner -- not my partner, Steve Pilla
and a couple other gentlemen.  I don't even
remember who they were.  Everyone was just
throwing equipment into that location from all
the other vehicles that were destroyed.  They
would just salvage the equipment and bring it
right to there.
          They determined that that was a little
too close still, and they wanted us out of that
building.  We to go north.  When the second
building was coming down, we must have been like
on Murray and North End, and the cloud was coming
from the second building.  So we actually went
back into this one here just to avoid the cloud.
Then after that passed, that's when we returned
back to actually ground zero or whatever then.
     Q.   Any thoughts or comments, anything else
you'd like to add?
A. No.
     Q.   Okay.  I think we covered this, but
when you first arrived at staging do you remember
the officers that were there?
J. FORTIS 26
     A.   I can't remember his name, but I see
him regularly.  I believe there was a lieutenant
there, a captain, and one of the chiefs was just
going by.  But I don't even remember who they
were.  As a matter of fact, I saw him maybe down
there another time, and he was like, "I'm glad to
see you're okay," and that kind of thing.  I
don't know him by his name.  It's always like,
"Hey, what's up," that kind of thing.
     Q.   Right.
     A.   That's really about it.
     Q.   Okay.  I thank you.
          MR. RADENBERG:  The time is now 0749,
     and the interview is concluded.
File No. 9110201
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
            EMT JOHN FELIDI
   Interview Date:  November 9, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
J. FELIDI
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today is November 9, 2001.
     I'm Paul Radenberg of the Fire Department of the
     City of New York.  The time is now 0756 hours.
     Q.   I'm conducting an interview with --
     A.   John Felidi, Battalion 20, 2985.
     Q.   Okay.  Mr. Felidi is an EMT.  This interview
is being conducted at EMS Battalion 20 regarding the
events of September 11, 2001.
          John, begin with when you were assigned to
the job, where you were, et cetera?
     A.   I was at the station in the morning when we
were watching the news and they were showing pictures
of what was happening at the World Trade Center, that a
plane hit the tower.  At that point, Chief Basile came
in and said John, take the LSU truck down to the World
Trade Center.  So, that's what I did.  Took the West
Side Highway all the way down.
          I got to about the West Side Highway, between
Barclay and Vesey Street.  I couldn't go any further,
so I parked the vehicle there and spoke to Chief
Villani.  I told him I couldn't go any further, due to
the mass of emergency vehicles that were down there.
So he told me go down, to take the vehicle and put it
on the other side of the West Side Highway, which is
2
J. FELIDI
the west -- the west side of the highway there.  So I
did.  I went down to -- took the West Side Highway back
to Murray Street, made a left on Murray Street, came up
North End, came down Vesey Street and I parked
approximately right in this area here, which is the
West Side Highway and Vesey Street, right here.
     Q.   So, right by like 7 World Financial Center?
     A.   Correct.
     Q.   The American Express building?
     A.   Right near there.  We were doing some
triaging, triaging a couple of patients, here and
there.  We were ordered to evacuate that area.  They
didn't give me a reason why.  So that's what I did.  We
pushed down to North End and Vesey.  At that point in
time we were also doing some triaging.  We -- now we
are down there.  We heard a rumble.  I heard the rumble
and looked in the back of me all I seen was a monstrous
-- I can't even describe it.  A cloud.  Looked like
debris, dust.
          We ran down to North End between Murray and
Vesey Street.  There was a -- I think there is a -- I
thought there was a hotel and office building right
there.  We ran in there.  The cloud was really really
bad.  So we ran in there and we waited until it
3
J. FELIDI
subsided.  That was about like 10, 15 minutes went by.
I was down there, I lost track of time so I really
can't -- even speak about time.
          So after that happened, we found out that the
second tower that was hit collapsed.  We went back out,
started triaging again.  We asked a fireman that we
had, a Captain from one of the -- actually, I don't
even know what his name was -- what Battalion or
whichever he was at.  We were triaging there.  There
was so much debris down there, like you were covered.
          At one point while we were triaging again, we
were told to evacuate the area because the other tower
was about to collapse.  At that point in time I tried
to jump in the vehicle and the only thing I remember is
getting into the vehicle.  I didn't even have time to
put the key in the ignition and that was it.  That was
so -- I mean I think I was closer to that tower than
this one.
     Q.   Yes, number 1.  The north tower.
     A.   Right, that's the one.  That it was so dark
down there that I couldn't even see in front of me.  I
tried even moving the vehicle about two feet but I
couldn't do it, because people are running everywhere.
We had EMS personnel in the middle of the street.  We
4
J. FELIDI
had the New York City Police Department running.  I
seen a couple of firemen running by me, so all I did
was get in the vehicle, stay there until -- actually it
came to a stand still.
          That was about a few minutes.  That was a
while.  The first time I got covered with it.  The
second time we knew that it was going to collapse.  We
were told to evacuate the area.  That was it.  I got
into the vehicle, put the key in and I couldn't even go
anywhere.
          About 15 minutes went by.  We started
triaging in -- I don't remember, I think the Ambassador
or the Embassy.
     Q.   Embassy?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Embassy Suites?
     A.   Right.  We started triaging in there and we
were getting hit heavy with patients.  About -- I'm
giving you a rough estimate because I really don't
remember the time.  About 20 minutes to half an hour
went by, we were told to evacuate that area due to
major gas leaks in the area.  At that point in time I
started putting some of the equipment that I had.  I
left a lot of equipment down there because in the 21
5
J. FELIDI
years I have been there, I have never never seen
anything like this.  Never.
          We were told to evacuate the area and we were
told to proceed down North End to Chambers, take the
West Side Highway up to Chelsea Piers, 23 Street.  At
that point in time I think, I picked up Chief Pascale.
I put her in the truck and I think there was also a
Lieutenant and her aide, because they needed a ride up
to the Chelsea Piers.  I even seen Dario Gonzalez, Dr.
Dario Gonzalez.  I seen him down there.  I seen
numerous people from the Battalion down there.
          There was one point in time that we were
scared shit.  What scared the shit out of me was we
were down there and all we heard was another aircraft
coming, but it turned out to be, I don't know, an F-15.
          Let me tell you something you never seen
anybody stand still, because you didn't know where to
run, honestly.  We evacuated that area and went down to
Chelsea Piers.  I started setting up a triage area down
there and at that point in time I stood there until I
was relieved.  I came back to the station.
     Q.   Okay.  When you got to west side and Vesey
and you saw Chief Villani, do you remember seeing any
other people down there that you recognized?
6
J. FELIDI
     A.   I remember -- after the collapse I remember
seeing Chief Basile.  He was covered in debris because
he was one of the Chiefs that I believe I think was in
the pedestrian walkway when it collapsed.  Also I saw
Louie Cook down there, who was the ALS coordinator next
door, in the division.  They were covered in -- full of
debris.
     Q.   Do you remember where you saw them?
     A.   About right here when we were down by triage,
in this area.
     Q.   By North End and Vesey?
     A.   Yes, the hotel down there.
     Q.   Yes, that's the Embassy I believe.
     A.   Yes.  In fact I don't remember the name of
it.  I know it's right here.
     Q.   All right.  Do you recall anybody with Chief
Villani when you first arrived?
     A.   I seen a Lieutenant, but I don't know his
name.  I really don't know his name.
     Q.   All right.  Other EMS ambulances down in the
area?
     A.   I seen one of the new MERVs from Manhattan.
I know it was Manhattan because it was one of the new
ones.  One of the last ones we got in.  I seen people
7
J. FELIDI
getting triaged in the MERV, but I couldn't tell you
who they -- what their names or anything like that.
     Q.   Okay.  No problem.  Heading up to Chelsea
Piers, you picked up Chief Pascale and her aide?
     A.   Right.
     Q.   Do you remember roughly where you picked them
up?  Was it somewhere over here on North End or --
     A.   No, I think it was near West Side Highway.  I
think around or past Chambers Street.
     Q.   North of Chambers?
     A.   Yes.  I think -- she was -- as a matter of
fact, I seen her when we were triaging in that
building.  But then after the second collapse,
everybody scattered and I didn't see her until -- up in
that area.  Like Chambers and the West Side Highway.
     Q.   Okay.  When tower one came down you rode that
out in the LSU?
     A.   No, that one, what I did was --
     Q.   Tower one was the second tower to fall.
     A.   Right.  When the second tower fell I was
right here in this area here.  I heard the rumble.
Sorry, that was the first tower that fell.  I heard the
rumble.  We were in this area here.
     Q.   Right.  West Side Highway and Vesey?
8
J. FELIDI
     A.   Right.  So when that collapsed, I felt a
tremor and I ran towards North End, but we had a cloud
following us, so I ran around the corner to try to
avoid it.  It came down Vesey Street.  Then it came
down also Murray, so I was stuck right in the middle of
that area.  The only thing I could do was duck and ran
into that building, but I got covered in debris because
by the time I turned the block here, it caught me.
Q. Right.
     A.   When the second tower fell, that one we were
right here in this area here again.  That one was more,
like I would say more powerful, because I was closer to
it.  That one I got full of debris.  Also, that was
when I jumped into the LSU truck.  I didn't get a
chance to put the key in, you know.
          Because the first time, I believe it was the
first tower that fell, the LSU truck was here and I
ran.  I left the truck.  I ran around the corner, but
when the second tower fell, I never forget that sound.
It sounded like a freight train passing by.  I never
forget that sound, never forget that sound.  Like a
freight train.
     Q.   Okay.  Anything else you would like to add,
thoughts or comments or anything like that?  No?
9
J. FELIDI
     MR. RADENBERG:  Okay.  John, I thank you very
much.  The time is now 0708 hours.  This interview
is concluded.
10
File No. 9110202
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       PARAMEDIC KEVIN DARNOWSKI
   Interview Date:  November 9, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
                  K. DARNOWSKI                  2
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today is November 9th,
     2001.  I'm Paul Radenberg of the Fire
     Department, City of New York.  The time is
     now 0934 hours.  I am conducting an
     interview with --
          PARAMEDIC DARNOWSKI:  Paramedic Kevin
     Darnowski from Battalion 20, shield 3103.
          MR. RADENBERG:  This interview is being
     conducted at EMS Battalion 20 regarding the
     events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Kevin?
     A.   Regarding the events of September 11th,
2001, my story is I was dropping my fiancee's son
off at school in Brooklyn on Fourth Avenue.
After dropping him off, I was heading northbound
on Fourth Avenue, and I looked to my left and I
see the north tower of the World Trade Center
burning.  My fiancee works in the north tower on
the 98th floor.
          At that time I proceeded to call
Lieutenant Guzman here at Battalion 20 and
question him as to whether or not he had a job in
the system for the World Trade Center.  He told
me that he had reports of a fire on the upper
                  K. DARNOWSKI                  3
floors of the World Trade Center.
          At that time he asked me if I wanted to
continue to work or go down to the scene.  I
opted to go down to the scene, as I was on my way
to work anyway.  And in uniform, I opted to go
down to the scene at that time.
          As I headed down towards the scene, I
was trying to call my fiancee in her office, and
there was no answer on the phone.  It just kept
giving me a busy signal.  I tried her cell phone,
and there was no answer on her cell phone.
          I was approaching the Brooklyn Battery
Tunnel.  Behind me was EMS Chief Goldfarb.  In
front of me was a couple of tower ladders and
rescue companies and engine companies that were
going through the tunnel.
          Right before the tolls on the Brooklyn
side heading towards Manhattan at the Battery
Tunnel, we were sitting in traffic and we watched
United Flight 175 hit tower two, which was the
south tower of the World Trade Center.
          At that time everybody was just in
shock.  The firefighters and I were just really
trying to get through the traffic when the plane
                  K. DARNOWSKI                  4
hit, and we were just standing there in like awe
of what was happening.  Finally we ended up
getting into the tunnel,and we ended up sitting
in the tunnel for about another 10 minutes, 10 to
15 minutes, trying to get through the traffic.
          When we finally got through the tunnel
to the other side, I parked my car on the corner
of Carlisle and West Side Highway, West Street,
and I proceeded northbound on West Street towards
the command center or what I believed to be the
command center at that time.
          I went along the center median,
meanwhile looking up at the towers in disbelief
and basically sheer awe at what was going on.
None of us at the Battery Tunnel knew what was
going on until the second plane hit.  Right then
we knew it was a terrorist attack.
          So as I'm walking up to the scene, I
see droves of firefighters running towards the
buildings, but nobody's coming out on the West
Street side.  I questioned one Fire Department
official -- I believe he was a captain; I don't
remember his name -- as to why there was nobody
coming out on this side.  He told me the Port
                  K. DARNOWSKI                  5
Authority had locked the doors on that side of
the building and was having everybody come out on
the Trinity side by the church, like Trinity and
Fulton area for easy evacuation.
          At that point I met up with EMS Chief
Goldfarb again and his aide Mary.  We were over
by Three Financial Center.  At that point we were
standing with numerous amounts of firefighters
and fire supervisors and police officers, and we
got a report of another incoming airplane.  So we
proceeded to go into a parking garage that was in
Three Financial Center underneath.
          Shortly after that we realized what was
flying over was the armed forces F-14s flying
over, and we got a confirmation from the FAA --
over the police radio we got a confirmation from
FAA that all airports had been closed and there
were no planes flying within the New York City
area at that specific time.
          So we all came out of the garage, and
Chief Goldfarb started setting up triage on the
corner of West and Vesey with the ambulances
going towards North End Avenue, facing West
Street along Vesey, along Three and four
                  K. DARNOWSKI                  6
Financial Center.
          At that time we weren't getting that
many -- we ended up putting -- I don't know what
this building was over here.
     Q.   Vesey and North End.
     A.   Yeah, there was a building on the --
     Q.   Embassy Hotel?
     A.   It might have been The embassy Hotel.
     Q.   There's a movie theater also.
     A.   Right, right.  There was a parking lot
in the front on West Street.  We ended up putting
triage initially in Three and Four Financial
Center.
          At that time Chief Goldfarb and -- I
had explained my situation, that my fiancee was
up on the 98th floor of tower one and I would be
as much help as I can.  He told me regarding
patient care-wise that don't bother with patient
care, just with moving of patients and equipment.
          So we went back over to the pedestrian
bridge in front of Three Financial Center.  We
were standing under there with the Fire
Department command center.  We were attempting to
set up a command center there, when one of the
                  K. DARNOWSKI                  7
firefighters starts screaming, "Look up!"
Everybody looks up, and we were watching the
people jump out of One World Tower Center and
hitting the overhang in front of World Trade
Center where the taxis would let people off
originally.
          At that time it was just -- the best
word to describe it was pure chaos.  Nobody
really knew what was going on other than the
firefighters going in to try to put out the
fires.
          Chief Goldfarb instructed me to go back
to the MERV, which was sitting on West and Vesey.
I went back over to the MERV, and I met up with
one of my coworkers from Battalion 20, Chris
Attanasio.  He put me in the MERV, because he
knew my situation, and he tried to calm me down
and just told me to sit tight and relax and just
hope for the best and just things like that.  He
was trying to calm me down and stuff.  I just had
to get out of the MERV.  I had to be outside on
the street watching what was going on.
          At that point Chris Attanasio took me
and he told me we were ordered by -- he didn't
                  K. DARNOWSKI                  8
specify any -- to go over to West Street just
south of the north tower right at the base of the
hotel over there, because we were getting
patients from Two World Trade Center that they
were bringing down the stairs from Two World
Trade Center down to West Street.  We were going
to be getting patients over there.
          So I proceeded with him and his partner
over to that area, and we started loading
patients, firefighters and civilians, in the back
of the ambulance.  At one point we had five
patients in the back of the ambulance, and he was
standing and he asked me if I wanted to go to the
hospital with him.  I told him no, I needed to
stay in the area.  I wanted to see if Chief
Goldfarb needed me for anything.  So he said
okay, and he started to leave.  He proceeded down
towards like Albany Street, like Liberty and
Albany, to go to one of the area hospitals; I
don't remember which one.
          At that time I started walking back up
towards Vesey Street.  I heard three explosions,
and then we heard like groaning and grinding, and
tower two started to come down.  To the
                  K. DARNOWSKI                  9
firefighters and the cops that I was standing
there with started running northbound on West
Street and we made a left on Vesey and ran again
towards North End Avenue where we were having EMS
triage, and we stopped over there.
          Down that specific street on West
Street, there wasn't that much debris and smoke
coming down because Two World Trade Center is
more or less blocked by the hotel and a couple
other buildings.  It did come down like Liberty
Street and towards Two World Financial Center and
towards like the Winter Garden area.
          We ended up just staying there for a
while till the smoke more or less cleared up.  We
started putting our masks on and stuff like that
at that time.
          Shortly after that Chief Goldfarb told
us to go back down towards where we had the
ambulances staged on Vesey Street and start
moving the ambulances back more and a little
north in case tower one fell.
          At that time I encountered Chief Larry
Mittleman, Chief Fran Pascale, Chief Basile from
Division 2, and ALS coordinator Louie Cook from
                  K. DARNOWSKI                 10
Division 2.  I encountered them all at the EMS
triage we had at North End and Vesey.
          They were at that point -- Chief
Goldfarb explained my situation to them with my
fiancee being in tower one, and they were just
trying to calm me down.  I was helping move
patients.
          We went back to Vesey and West Street
and started moving the ambulances back towards
North End more, and then we started going
northbound on North End towards Murray Street.
We were moving the triage because we got a report
of the parking lot in front of the building we
were in, some of the cars were on fire, and we
got reports of gas lines that were blown and the
fire were starting to get to them.  So we ended
up moving the triage initially, and we just
started heading northbound to Murray Street.
          We got up to Murray Street, and that's
when -- Murray Street and towards West Street we
ended up putting the triage just for temporary
purposes.  Then shortly after that tower one
started to come down.  Captain Fenton, I believe,
was on the scene.  He said at that time to just
                  K. DARNOWSKI                 11
get in the ambulances and whatever vehicle you
could get in and just head northbound on West
Street until you get to Chelsea Piers.
          That's how the triage ended up at
Chelsea Piers.  Everybody just started heading
northbound.  They started -- we were getting over
the radio, EMS radio, that they started having
the ambulances staging at the Chelsea Piers.
          Captain Fenton told a lieutenant from
the Bellevue station that was on the scene to
take me back to the station, because I could be
of no use patient care-wise given my situation.
He told him to take me back to Bellevue station.
They removed me to Bellevue station.
          Just while I was at Bellevue station, I
was acting as a liaison between the station
itself and the emergency department with a couple
of the other lieutenants there.  I'd just seeing
a couple of the injuries -- I saw the firefighter
they brought in in cardiac arrest that was hit by
a civilian that jumped out of one of the
buildings.
          At that point I still didn't know what
was going on with my fiancee.  I was calling her
                  K. DARNOWSKI                 12
sister, calling her mother.  Nobody heard
anything at that point.
          That whole time I had no idea what time
of day it was or anything like that.  They
removed me to Bellevue station at about 3:00.
From 3 until 5:30, as I said, I was acting as a
liaison between the emergency department and the
station.
          My twin brother is also a paramedic at
Battalion 20.  He brought in a patient to
Bellevue, so I was talking to him for a while.  I
went back to the station.  I called my house to
see if there were any messages on the answering
machine, and there was a message from a nurse at
Brooklyn hospital saying my fiancee was at
Brooklyn Hospital.  She was okay.  She was being
kept for observation.
          At that point I called her sister, and
her sister was already on her way over to
Brooklyn Hospital to see her.  So then I
approached the desk lieutenant at that time at
Bellevue, and I told him the situation.  He was
going to try to get me a ride back to Brooklyn,
but he said obviously it wouldn't be any time
                  K. DARNOWSKI                 13
soon since the events were still unfolding down
at the World Trade Center.
          I explained to my brother what had
happened.  He said fine.  So they just told me to
continue what I was doing and they would let me
know about a ride over to Brooklyn.  So I was
continuing acting as a liaison.
          At one point I brought the
firefighter's equipment that had died back over
to the emergency department from the station
because his coworkers from the engine company
were there requesting his equipment.
          While I was standing outside in the
emergency ambulance bay, I was talking to my
brother and another EMT -- I don't recall his
name at this time -- and I started experiencing
some chest pain and chest tightness, and I was
brought into the emergency room.  I was treated
for angina and anxiety.  I was subsequently
admitted to the cardiac care unit over night in
Bellevue, and I was released at about 6 in the
morning.
          Just that's what happened to me on
September 11th.
                  K. DARNOWSKI                 14
     Q.   When you got in to Manhattan and you
parked down by Carlisle and West, do you recall
seeing anyone outside from Chief Goldfarb?  Do
you recall seeing any other EMS personnel around
there that you recognized, or fire personnel?
     A.   Offhand?  Not offhand initially, not
down at that time.  There was a torso of a human
that was down over by the hotel by the front of
Liberty Street that they had blocked off, and I
saw a couple of police crime scene units there.
I saw a couple firefighters; I can't recall their
names or what engine or ladder company or
battalions they were from.  I didn't start seeing
EMS people until I got up to West and Vesey
Street.
          I saw NY Cornell ambulances in front.
I saw Long Island College Hospital in front.  I
saw some Fire Department ambulances in front of
the hotel and tower one on West Street.  A whole
bunch of fire apparatus and police vehicles.  I
saw what looked like a Fire Department command
center.  I don't exactly know who was there.
          Everybody had their turnout gear on.
So at that specific time, it was kind of hard to
                  K. DARNOWSKI                 15
differentiate who had white shirt, light blue
shirts, you know, who was just wearing turnout
coats.
          Like I said, I ended up seeing EMS
people from up here, Battalion 20, from New York
Hospital that I recognized, some names being
Craig Viscuti, Chris Attanasio and Roland Diaz
from up here at Battalion 20, Joe Fortis and Mike
Negron from up here at Battalion 20.  I saw an
EMT by the name of Steven Hess.  I believe he's
from Battalion 57 or the old Woodhall station
down in Brooklyn.
          At that specific time, I don't remember
seeing any EMS lieutenants or captains, just
Chief Goldfarb at that time.  Other than that, I
really couldn't tell you any names.
     Q.   You've basically covered everything we
were looking for.  Any thoughts or comments you'd
like to add, opinion?
     A.   No, not really.  In that type of
situation other than the word "chaos" describing
it all, all in all everybody more or less did
what they were supposed to do.  The firefighters
did what they were supposed to do.  They were
                  K. DARNOWSKI                 16
supposed to go in the building and try to rescue
the people from the fire floors, extinguish the
fires as best they can.  EMS people staging
outside, some in the lobbies of tower one and
tower two; I knew that.
          I mean, other than the chaotic scene
that was going on, I would have to say everybody
more or less did what an emergency action plan
recommends with regards to a mess.  Obviously
nobody thought the buildings would fall.  That
was unexpected.
          What was expected was firefighters were
going to go up to the floors, rescue civilians,
as many as they can, extinguish the fires, then
we would treat and transport.  Basically that was
the emergency action plan that was in effect, and
was what everybody expected to happen.  Nobody
expected the towers to fall.
          So other than that, basically everybody
did what they were supposed to be doing.  With
the chaos, I'm actually surprised.  I was the
only one that was actually a little bonkers.
     Q.   How's your fiancee?
     A.   She's okay.  She's doing good.  She's
                  K. DARNOWSKI                 17
hanging in there.  She hasn't gone back to work
yet.  Her work actually relocated, but she hasn't
gone back to work yet.  But that's okay.
          MR. RADENBERG:  Okay.  The time is now
     0954, and the interview is concluded.
File No. 9110203
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
            EMT LONNIE PENN
   Interview Date:  November 9, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
L. PENN
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today's date is November 9,
     2001.  The time is now 0851 hours.  I'm Paul
     Radenberg of the Fire Department of the City of
     New York.
     Q.   Conducting an interview with --
     A.   EMT Penn, first name Lonnie.  Shield 1296.
     Q.   Lonnie is currently assigned to EMS Battalion
20.  This interview is being conducted at Battalion 20
regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
     A.   Particularly on that day, I was working the
unit 20 David, Tour 1, and approximately two minutes
after the first plane hit, I was assigned -- basically
the route I took was down the Bruckner to the FDR all
the way downtown.  I must have been around 23 Street
when the second plane hit.  Shortly, within another 5
to 10 minutes, I was in the mix.  I got waved all the
way in to the front of the staging.  Immediately got
out, and proceeded to put on my helmet, pulled out a
stretcher and prepared for an MCI.
          After that, I helped one lady out of the
front of the Marriott entrance, I recall.  I was on my
way back.  I had actually brought her to the Hatzolah
ambulance, because they were carrying her, and a few
other people and I assisted with her.  Then on my way
2
L. PENN
back to the entrance, I felt the ground shake, I turned
around and ran for my life.
          I made it as far as the Financial Center,
like right before it, behind the last Hatzolah
ambulance facing the Trade Center, when the collapse
happened, and I mean it was just -- I can't -- it was
sheer hell, but hell fire passed me and all the rubble,
at least 10 feet of rubble had passed me.  The only
thing I was really scared of was dying of respiratory
distress at that point.
          When I got up and looked around, my ambulance
was obliterated and gone.  I looked for my partner.  I
didn't see him.  I was worried for him.  Basically I
only saw two other people alive on the block that I was
at.  I got myself together and then started heading
through towards the water and I saw two other
co-workers from station 22.  We all hugged and I saw
Captain DeShore and then a boat came in from New Jersey
police harbor patrol and Captain DeShore was ordering
us to get on and two of us did and one stayed behind.
          While I was in the mix of helping people get
on, the second collapse proceeded.  We got covered in
all of the smoke again, all of a sudden and we just
escaped with our lives.  It was close, very close.
3
L. PENN
          I just got to say I thank God for living.
Basically that's it.
     Q.   Okay.  Do you remember where you staged?
     A.   Approximately -- would this line right here
be the barrier that was there?  There was a barrier in
the middle of the street.
     Q.   Yes, the black line.  This is West Street and
then the West Side Highway.
     A.   I was more or less right on this corner.
     Q.   Right on Liberty and West?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Okay.  Who was your partner that day?
     A.   A rookie gentleman by the name of Joseph
Henderson or Henderson Joseph.  Basically, we got out
and we passed a lot of body parts.  I mean it looked
like Beirut to me.  That was from the debris of the two
crashes.  My rookie partner, he was in shock, he
couldn't believe it.  He froze.  I just you know, I
couldn't stop, I couldn't even watch.  If you looked up
and you see people jumping, we saw a few jumpers.  I
couldn't look no more.  I had to act.  I went to the
front.  That was where I went over to like the Marriott
front.
          I assisted that lady to the Hatzolah
4
L. PENN
ambulance and was on my way back when we felt the
rumble.  My partner actually came sort of like running
up to me but not all the way.  What should I do.  I
just said go get a long board from the ambulance and
that was the last I saw of him.  We felt the ground
shake.  You could see the towers sway and then it just
came down and I never looked back once I started
running.
     Q.   When the collapse started you ran north on
the West Side Highway?
     A.   No, I jumped the barrier and I must have made
it right over to where this second line is here.
Because I was -- there is like -- it was a little high,
I remember where I was it was 10 feet of rubble had
passed me.
     Q.   You were pretty much in front of like 2 World
Financial Center?
     A.   Yes, that's as far as I got.
     Q.   Right.  Then --
     A.   I actually saw a police officer shoot the
window out to get through.
     Q.   To get through 2 World Financial Center?
     A.   Yes.  Because he was ahead of me.  I could
see him.  He shot the glass out and jumped through and
5
L. PENN
I had later saw him in the hospital in Jersey.
     Q.   When you reached the yacht harbor behind 2
Financial, you said Captain DeShore was there and two
other people from --
     A.   Two other EMTs from Boston Road.
     Q.   Do you know who they were?
     A.   My friend Conzo and Billy -- I can't
pronounce Billy's last name.  Truoccolo, yes.
     Q.   Okay.  So you were all pretty much back here
for the second collapse?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   At the harbor.  Who got on the boat?
     A.   Captain DeShore.  We assisted a fireman that
had possibly a broken back.  This guy, they already had
him on a long board and was carrying him over.  I
assisted to help get him on the boat.  There was about
two other police officers and I think two civilian
ladies, two ladies, I think they were civilians.  We
assisted them downstairs into the boat.  I came back up
and it was me and Conzo, Truoccolo was very hurt, his
leg was gashed.  He had a load of glass all over him,
over his neck.  He was cut up.  I guess his adrenaline
just kept him going.
Q. Right.
6
L. PENN
     A.   Basically at that point it was me and Conzo
on the deck and Captain DeShore was saying get on this
boat and Conzo says to me, are you going to Jersey or
what?  I said -- I could just hear Captain DeShore
screaming out again, get on this boat and then all of a
sudden we hear the second collapse coming and that was
it.  I jumped on it, Conzo stayed and thank God later
that night I heard he was okay.
          We all got treated very nice as soon as we
got to Jersey.  The people from Day Tech were the
best.  The firemen were there, on the other side of
Jersey.  They hosed me down, all that soot.  I was
coughing, throwing up.  I had soot in my -- my eyes
were burning, they were sheer burning.  I can't forget
that.
          When I was running from the first collapse, I
must have got hit by a body part because I had carcass
like on the side of my leg.  It was stuck to my pants.
Basically minor injuries as far as back spasm after
that and my leg had a bruise.  I had a bruise from
getting hit from some debris.  That's basically it.
     Q.   Okay.  Billy Truocollo got on the boat?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   And Conzo?
7
L. PENN
     A.   Stayed.
     Q.   He stayed back?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   When you arrived at the staging area, do you
remember who was there as far as EMS officers,
personnel?
     A.   The last known must have been -- it was a
Captain or somebody of ours had a vehicle over here
between Albany and Carlyle.  There was someone in that
vicinity that I recall passing one of my bosses.
Otherwise it was strictly Fire Department personnel,
fire trucks just waving me in.  I had got waved in, I
remember I passed this bridge here and I was coming in
on this side and then I made this turn, right here was
the turn where I made and I parked it right here
because I was on that side.
     Q.   You turned around the barriers, the Jersey
barriers?
A. Yes.
     Q.   By the Marriott and then parked on the east
side of West Side Highway so you came up this side on
the west side.
     A.   That's when I got waved to turn.
     Q.   Turn around.
8
L. PENN
     A.   Like I said as soon as I stepped off the
ambulance I mean I was just -- I felt like I was in
Beirut.  All I saw was debris and body parts.  I recall
a little girl's foot.  It was like a pink sneaker.  It
was tiny, around the age of seven, eight or so, because
I have a daughter that size.  I mean I just saw so many
body parts, it was unbelievable.
          Then I look up and see people jumping.
Really bugged me out, because I couldn't even watch
them land.  It was just -- I just couldn't understand
jumping.  I mean I just couldn't fathom it.  I would
rather take my chances and ride it out.  But these
people were like I would rather jump than get burned.
That's how I thought of it afterwards.  I don't know
what else to say.
     Q.   Anything else you would like to add, opinions
or --
     A.   My opinion was that staging was way too
close.  I got waved all the way into the front.  Where
it was unnecessary that personally there was nothing I
could do to help anybody from what I saw you know, as
far as -- evacuation yes, but that's not my job.  So I
mean I still assisted in that sense.  I just had to
act.  I couldn't watch these people jump off any more.
9
L. PENN
I had to do something.  That's when I went to the foot
of the Marriott entrance and just assisted the first
lady I could help.  They were all leading them to the
Hatzolah.  There was a line of like Hatzolah ambulances
I recall, at least 4 or 5, and we were helping them.
Q. Okay --
     A.   That was actually on this side where like
two, it was over there.
     Q.   On the west side?
     A.   Yes, that's where --
     Q.   The Hatzolah?
     A.   Yes, they were faced with their ambulances
backed up right there.
     Q.   Right.
A. Sothenwehadtogo -- it was actually by the turn, that's how I remember too. It was by the turn, where I did my turn was across there. We had started walking up over here, me and my partner, I guess we were like right on this corner here.
     Q.   On Liberty and Washington?
     A.   Yes, and that's when I saw somebody jump on
this side of this 2 World Trade Center on the top on
this corner.  I saw a man take a leap.  I mean I have
done a lot of jumpers down, but this one was live in
10
L. PENN
your face.  I must have stopped watching when he got to
around the 30th floor.  I just put my head down and
said lord take care of me and I reacted.  That's when
my rookie partner, and there was two other medics from
Boston that showed up.  Joe Jefferson and I forgot his
partner, but I heard his partner fractured his shoulder
and it was just one bad day.
          It was such a beautiful day.  Nobody expected
this.  I had a funny feeling in my gut that once those
planes had hit, that the World Trade Center was going
to collapse.  I had a feeling it was coming down.  I
just didn't think so quick.  It was within minutes.
     Q.   One last thing.  The last time that you saw
your partner, he was --
     A.   He was at the ambulance.
     Q.   Just prior to the first collapse?
     A.   Yes, yes.  He was getting a long board, he
was like what should I do?  I said I -- it's like
telling a husband and I'm helping his wife give birth
like, he don't know --
     Q.   Go boil the water.
     A.   I just said go get a long board.  That's what
he was doing.  Basically after the first collapse and I
look back to where my ambulance was parked, it was no
11
L. PENN
longer there.  It was gone.  I couldn't even see it.
It was obliterated.  Thank God it was one of the spare
vehicles.  That's what -- everybody at -- like the
bosses, said ah, it's a spare.
          I got to thank the New Jersey harbor police.
I mean they -- he did a hell of a job getting out of
that situation blindly during the second collapse.  He
got it backed up, did a little bump, hit the wall and
then swung it right out.  I mean blindly, because you
couldn't see anything.  The soot was hitting us already
from the second collapse.  Just covered the boat.
Fortunately we made it out of there.
          I remember on the boat at that moment,
though, I had to grab a fireman on the long board down
the stairs.  I just hope I didn't hurt him any further,
but I just reacted so quickly.
     Q.   You pulled him down into the cabin of the
boat?
     A.   Yes, he was on the deck and I pulled him
down.  There was a little bump.
Q. Right.
     A.   You know, otherwise he would have died of
respiratory distress, because he couldn't move.  He was
definitely temporarily paralyzed from the legs down.
12
L. PENN
The Jersey City harbor guy didn't realize when he drove
in, he tied it up, so during that moment in a split
second, I mean this guy did it like a real naval
seaman, he spun it and we got out of there.
          Him and his partner were frantic.  You could
see the panic in him when we couldn't see anything in
the harbor.  All the dust was just covering our faces.
My shirt was already gone, because I couldn't even
breathe no more from the first collapse.  I took it
off.  Just took my shirt off.  It was -- couldn't do
nothing for me any more.
          I remember I went into the bathroom after I
helped the fireman down.  I went into the little
bathroom cabin and it got full, full of smoke and the
soot and what was on my mind then was I just thought,
just prayed to God this wasn't chemical warfare also.
          When I got to Jersey, like I said, I was
throwing up black soot, chunks, chunks.  The firemen
hosed me down.  By then I practically just had my pants
tucked in my boots.  Oh, man.  I don't know what else
to say.
          Everybody at Day Tech was great.  I mean they
were there.  They had tons of water, food, whatever you
wanted.  I was just devastated sitting there, watching
13
L. PENN
you know, it just burn, dying.  It was 10 o'clock in
the morning and I was on the Jersey side and we're
right there watching it burn, I just couldn't believe
it.
          Sat there for about two hours in shock till a
guy came over to me and he don't know me, didn't -- you
know, just gave me a hug.  It was really a touching
moment.  He gave me a hug.  I didn't expect.  Just a
lot of support on that side.  Then we saw the F 16s
coming and fly overhead and stuff like that.  Then the
Jersey City harbor police did a phenomenal job.  Back
and forth and we were assisting -- I was helping assist
them.
          We were all walking people also from -- as
soon as they landed from the harbor patrol pier -- the
plane, one piece there, helping people get off the boat
until about 12:30, when a lady from the hospital came
up to me and said you are crazy, you got to go to the
hospital already.  She said I seen you down here since
you got here.  You just don't stop.  I said all right.
I was like you know, I guess my adrenaline was wearing
down now.
          I finally went to the hospital and I saw
Captain DeShore a few hours after and she had a burnt
14
L. PENN
cornea, something was wrong.  We just happened to see
each other in line.  I mean even at the hospital they
were excellent.  They treated us like we were -- any
complaint.  Each one by one, a specialist came over.
          It was just one crazy day.  I mean I kind of
say it's all in a day's work, but that you will never
forget.  This is a time line in history.
     Q.   Yes.
     A.   We all have to endure.
     Q.   One last question.  When you were on the
Jersey side, aside from the people that you went over
with, after that, the subsequent trips by Jersey
harbor, do you remember anybody else from EMS or the
Fire Department being brought over before you went to
the hospital yourself?
     A.   Actually no.  I don't recall seeing anybody
that I particularly knew from EMS.  The rest of it was
none of our guys.  It was other civilians from the area
you know, the financial area, and some civilians made
it.  They were over by the water.  After, it just kept
going.  It kept going back and forth.  It was the only
way to get out of there.  I mean if I could have I
would have swam right up the Hudson all the way to
Co-op City where I live.  I wanted to go home, but I
15
L. PENN
got to say, what's this guy's name, from the Police
Department, New Jersey, what do you call it, the
chaplain, he arranged a charter bus for us to get home,
me and Captain DeShore.  We dropped off people
throughout the boroughs, going back once.  This was
late at night already.
          Then you know, we got a police escort.  They
were really good.  I just thank God again for me
living.  It was a tremendous tragedy.  That's about it
Paul.
     Q.   Anything else you want to add?
     A.   No.
          MR. RADENBERG:  All right, thank you.  Time
     is now 0916.  The interview is concluded.
16
File No. 9110204
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      EMT-D CHRISTOPHER ATTANASIO
   Interview Date:  November 9, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
C. ATTANASIO
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today is November 8, 2001.
     I'm Paul Radenberg of the Fire Department of the
     City of New York.  The time is now 0631 hours.
     Q.   I'm conducting an interview with --
     A.   Christopher Attanasio, EMT-D, 5303, Battalion
20, Division 2.
     Q.   This interview is being conducted at EMS
Battalion 20 regarding the events of September 11,
2001.  Christopher, start from when you were assigned
to the job.
     A.   We signed on to the KDT approximately about
8:30.  At approximately 8:48 or 8:50, the dispatcher
came up and said I need whoever wants to go to the
World Trade Center, I have something going on.  Just
switch to Citywide.  So my partner and myself switched
to Citywide with vehicle 85 and proceeded to go down to
the World Trade Center.
          We took the FDR Drive south.  There was a lot
of traffic on the drive going south.  We decided to get
off on 96 Street, which would cut across to 2nd Avenue
and we took 2nd Avenue all the way down.
          Upon arrival, towers one and two were both
ablaze.  The second plane had hit the second tower
already.  Both towers were totally engulfed.  People
2
C. ATTANASIO
were jumping out of the buildings.  There was airplane
fuselage and landing gear around the site.  Body parts,
victims' remains on the floor.  There were some
injuries on the street.  Some cars were on fire.
          I pulled over.  I was directed to stage at
Liberty and West, where I saw Captain DeShore, Chief
Villani, my partner Roland Diaz, 03 John, Joey Fortez,
and Mike Negron.  Different agencies, voluntary
agencies, ESU, Fire Department, Customs, Secret
Service, Port Authority people, Hatzolah, and we were
staging and Chief Villani had told us to get our
equipment out of the vehicle because they were going to
go into the first tower that was hit, because they were
getting reports of casualties.
          So we proceeded to the ambulance, put on our
turnout gear, helmet and turnout coat, and as we were
taking the equipment out of the ambulance, the second
tower -- the second tower, started to come down.  As
the tower was coming down, we ran.  I ran, I guess it
was west to the West Side Highway.  The tower came
down.  I grabbed my partner, we ran.
          When the tower finally came down, there was a
white cloud of smoke that hit us, knocked us to our
feet.  It was very hard to breathe.  We inhaled a lot
3
C. ATTANASIO
of white powder, whatever it was, dust, concrete,
whatever it was.
          After the building fell, I remember seeing
Chief Pascale, her aide, her name is Immaculada, Gattas
is her last name.  I remember running with her.  Total
chaos from the scene.  An ESU guy coming out covered
from feet, head to toe, bleeding from his head.  We
treated him.  People started just -- we were able to --
after the building fell we went back and rescued our
ambulance.  Vehicle 85, which had been struck with
pieces of the building, had a broken left mirror,
broken windshield, debris on it.  We cleared it off.
          We went back to where they were staging by
Battery City and we went back, I went back to the tower
that had come down, but a gentleman from OEM, who is a
black male, that's all I remember, a very big black
male, he had told us that his boss was in the
building.  We proceeded to go back to the tower that
was already down and when we pulled up, we saw burnt
vehicles, fire balls, smoke, debris, dust, bodies.
          When we went in front of the tower, I
remember a Chief saying on his bull horn, all Fire
Department personnel, abandon your vehicles.  I looked
up, tower one was still burning, but tower two was
4
C. ATTANASIO
already down.  I told my partner Roland Diaz, and I had
another paramedic in the back, Darnowski, Steve
Darnowski, was in the back of vehicle 85.  As we looked
around, we saw nobody.  It was a ghost town, everybody
had left.
          I put the vehicle in reverse, people started
coming out of the woodwork.  We had an injured firemen,
we had a lady, a guy having a heart attack.  We had
another fireman with an avulsed face.  We had some
paraplegic lady that they had carried down, all the way
down, and they left her on the street, but she wasn't
injured.  She just needed transportation out of the
site.
          We had a total of 13 patients in the back of
the ambulance, ranging from cuts and burns and scrapes
and bruises, to some lady having -- she was having an
MI, blunt trauma, a lot of people with difficulty
breathing, so we notified the dispatcher.  I was 3 Ida
that day, that we had injuries in front of tower two
and asked for direction on what hospital to go to.
          The dispatcher came back and replied take
your patients to Columbia Presbyterian.  I acknowledged
and as I was leaving the site I picked up a rider, some
gentleman that just wanted to get out of this.  I put
5
C. ATTANASIO
him in the front of the bus.  As we are going up the
highway, as we are going up 9 West or whatever you want
to call it, the patient's condition started getting
worse in the back, the fireman, he was really bleeding
now, so we diverted him over to hospital 19, which is
St. Clare's.
          When we got there, we were met by several
EMTs, who took very good care of us and took all the
patients out.  We restocked the bus and went back down
to Ground Zero.  We just went past Chelsea Piers.  We
had gotten a couple of more patients and took them to
Beekman Hospital.  Same thing, cuts, bruises, scrapes,
respiratory problems.
          After coming out of Beekman Hospital, we
reported to the Chelsea Piers.  Basically that's the
best of my knowledge that I can remember.
     Q.   Okay.  When you got down, coming down Second
Avenue, when you got into the neighborhood of the Trade
Center complex, do you remember what route you took to
get to Liberty and West?
     A.   Right.  I definitely went right by City Hall,
right where J and R Records is, and I cut across.  I
was following another EMS ambulance who knew Manhattan,
because he was zipping in and out, so I was just
6
C. ATTANASIO
following him.  I was directed when I came, I came all
the way around, and I cut this way.
     Q.   Again, down Church and Liberty?
     A.   Church, and I guess I'm making a right on
Liberty, and these are where the busses were, on this
side.
     Q.   Liberty and Washington roughly and the West
Side Highway?
     A.   Right, right.
     Q.   Do you remember what the number on the
vehicle you were following by any chance?
     A.   No, I don't.
     Q.   There wasn't anybody following --
     A.   FDNY.
     Q.   But it wasn't from Battalion 20?
     A.   Negative.
     Q.   When you got to Liberty and West, you said
you saw Captain DeShore.  Chief Villani was down here?
     A.   Yes, he was.
     Q.   At the site?
     A.   Yes, he was.
     Q.   Do you remember seeing any other EMS
personnel or officers down there?
     A.   Officers, no.
7
C. ATTANASIO
     Q.   Any fire personnel, Fire Department personnel
that you recognized?
     A.   Joe Truocolla, he works 18 Charlie, tour 2.
He got injured, I think he works out of Boston.  22.
I'm not sure.  Who else did I see down there.  I can't
remember.
Q. Okay.
     A.   I don't remember.  I don't remember.  Just my
partner Roland Diaz, Joey Fortez I remember seeing.
Mike Negron.  Chief Pascale.  Oh, Steve Pillar.  I saw
Steve Pillar too.
     Q.   He is the ALS coordinator?
     A.   Coordinator for Division 6.
     Q.   Okay.  When tower number two started coming
down, you said you ran west across the West Side
Highway?
A. Right.
     Q.   Do you remember where you wound up in that
area?
     A.   It was right before Battery City.  It was
right -- let's see -- I ran this way.  We ran all the
way.  I couldn't tell you.  I don't remember.  I just
-- it was -- I couldn't recognize anything, the wave
of white.  I couldn't see.  I don't remember.
8
C. ATTANASIO
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   I don't remember.
     Q.   No problem.  You said you had come back after
the dust settled a little bit?
     A.   We went back to get the ambulance.
     Q.   To get your vehicle?
     A.   Right.
     Q.   Do you remember where you moved the vehicle
to at that point?
     A.   The vehicles were staged on Liberty, so we
went to West Street, where I picked up that gentleman I
told you.  We went back, because he said, he worked for
OEM.  I remember that much.  I remember that.  We went
back and I don't, you know --
     Q.   You got out somewhere on to West Street, West
Side Highway and then --
     A.   After getting the vehicles and going back to
the downed tower and coming back I had proceeded north
on West Street, on the West Side Highway.  I know
that's how I got to the hospital.
     Q.   Okay.  Do you remember approximately when you
came out of St. Clare's the first trip?
     A.   What time?
     Q.   Do you remember approximately or do you know
9
C. ATTANASIO
at that point had the second tower --
     A.   Had fallen.
     Q.   Tower one had come down?
     A.   Tower one?  To what I believe, I believe that
while I was in the hospital, that's when the second
tower fell.  I wasn't there for the second tower.  I
had already picked up injuries from tower two, which
was the first tower that fell.  That's how I would have
to believe it.  Because I never saw the second tower
fall.  I never saw it.  I only saw the first tower
fall.
     Q.   When you came back from St. Clare's back down
to the site, did you come down the West Side Highway?
     A.   I went all the way down the West Side Highway
and I made a left.  I just cut across and I was just
following some emergency vehicles.  I think it was ESU
or Port Authority ESU, and I just went back and we just
picked up some more patients.  There were just patients
everywhere.
     Q.   Do you remember where in the area you got to?
     A.   I think it was down as close as maybe Church
and Rector, if that's possible.  Maybe.  We just -- we
were getting flagged down by people and we were just
piling them in the ambulance.  There was no -- we
10
C. ATTANASIO
weren't told.  We were just coming back.  As we were
coming back down, I think I made a left and cut across
somewhere, and we just started getting flagged by
people walking that were covered in debris during the
towers.
     Q.   Okay.  Any thoughts or comments you would
like to add?
     A.   Thoughts and comments?  No, I was just -- I
just -- you know.  I have been through a lot of stuff
in my own personal life, but I never seen anything like
that.  I am a Persian Gulf War veteran and I have never
seen anything like this before in my life, and I still
to this day can't believe it.  I just can't believe it,
that it happened.  Basically that's all.
          MR. RADENBERG:  Okay.  Time is now 0644
     hours.  The interview is concluded.  Thank you
     Chris.  Point of correction.  This interview is
     conducted November 9, Friday.  The time is
     correct.
11
File No. 9110205
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        CAPTAIN MICHAEL DONOVAN
   Interview Date:  November 9, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
M. DONOVAN 2
          MR. CUNDARI:  Today's date is November
     9th, 2001.  The time is 1350 hours.  I'm
     George Cundari working with --
          MS. QUEVEDO:  Fabiola Quevedo.
          MR. CUNDARI:  -- from the New York City
     Fire Department.  I'm conducting an
     interview with the following individual.
          Please state your name, rank, title and
     assigned command.
          CAPTAIN DONOVAN:  Captain Michael
     Donovan.  I'm presently assigned to Division
     14.  At the time of the incident, I was a
     lieutenant, Engine Company 290, assigned to
     operations.
     Q.   Captain, can you just tell us the
events that happened going to that tragic day of
September 11?
     A.   Yeah.  On that morning I was assigned
to operations.  I was on the seventh floor of
headquarters.  We were writing a bulletin on
accident prevention and apparatus accident
prevention.
          At the time that the first plane hit,
we were in an office on the seventh floor.
M. DONOVAN 3
Another lieutenant came in and said that a plane
had hit the World Trade Center.  So that would be
at 8:48.  We went to look out a window, and as we
were walking one way down the hallway on the
seventh floor, Chief of Department Ganci, Chief
of Operations Nigro and Staff Chief Cassano were
walking the other way.  They were heading to
their cars to respond to the World Trade Center.
          They grabbed a couple of the officers,
myself and Captain John Sudnik, and told them to
come with the command staff and be assigned to
the command post.  They were looking for help in
the way of aides, administrative aides.
          We took the elevator down to the
basement garage.  We got into Chief Nigro's car,
John Sudnik and I, along with Chief Nigro's
driver.  I think his name was Adam.  We got in
the car.
          Quickly we were on the Brooklyn Bridge,
left Metrotech down on the Brooklyn Bridge.  We
could see the north tower on fire.  The wind
appeared to be blowing south and west, blowing
the wind eastward and north.  It looked to me
eight ten floors of fire, heavy black smoke.  We
M. DONOVAN 4
tried to size up the building on the way across
the bridge as to how you would approach this
fire.
          We came over the Brooklyn Bridge, down
Park Row, made the turn onto Fulton Street, and
then we parked on the corner of Church and Dey, I
believe.  I'm not completely sure on this.  I
have memory blanks.  But we were on Church
Street, either Dey or Courtlandt.
          We parked on the corner.  I asked the
driver if he had -- being we were responding from
headquarters, I had no firefighting gear.  They
went into the truck.  I was hoping they had a
spare set of gear.  My only real thought was to
get into the building one way or another, because
I didn't want to be stuck at the command post.
They had no gear.
          We started to walk down Church Street
in the direction of Liberty.  We were at the
corner of Liberty and Church just below Four
World Trade Center when the second plane hit.
     Q.   So you saw the second plane coming in?
     A.   We heard the second plane.  We couldn't
see it because it was blocked by the buildings.
M. DONOVAN 5
We were actually still on Church Street.  We
heard the plane briefly, the earth shook, the
buildings shook, a tremendous fireball overhead.
I thought there was a bomb or an explosion.  A
tremendous fireball, flaming debris, pieces of
the airplane, fuselage, landing gear, pieces of
the building.
          People started running.  We started
running down one of the streets.
     Q.   You're still with Chief Nigro at this
time?
     A.   No.  Chief Nigro was in Chief Ganci's
car.  Captain Sudnik, myself and Chief Nigro's
driver.  We started running down one of the
little side streets, Courtlandt or Dey.  There
were people dead in the street that obviously you
couldn't help them.  There was flaming debris
coming down all over.  It was just a matter of
who got hit with the debris.
          I made my way to Broadway, came back
around the block.  I knew I had to get to the
command post.  I knew I had to get firefighting
gear.  When I got back to Church Street, instead
of heading to the south and across Liberty to
M. DONOVAN 6
West Street -- at that point we knew the post was
being set up over on West Street.  So rather than
go south around the Trade Center complex, I went
north up to Vesey Street.
          On the way around, I saw a bunch of
rigs hooked up to stand pipes.  At the time they
appeared to be abandoned.  I didn't see
chauffeurs, at least two rigs.  I was able to get
different gear.  I was able to get bunker pants.
I was able to get a mask.  I managed to get a
bunker coat at some point.
     Q.   Did you have a radio?
     A.   I got a radio a little later on.  I got
a CO meter, carbon monoxide meter.
          When I got I believe over to the corner
of West and Vesey, I saw a chauffeur.  I think it
was Engine 21, but I really don't remember.  The
rig was on the corner of West and Vesey.  I told
him I needed gear.  He gave me some of his gear,
with the idea that I would return it later on.
          I saw a high rise unit, a Field Comm.
unit, whatever it was.  I was able to get a radio
from there.  So by the time I got to the command
post -- I went under the pedestrian bridge, the
M. DONOVAN 7
north walkway bridge.  At that point I had a full
set of gear, a carbon monoxide detector, a radio
and a mask.
          I reported into the command post and
asked to be put to work.  At this point both
buildings were burning.  They were setting up a
command post.  Chief Ganci was there.  I saw
Chief Downey.  I'm trying to think.  At one point
I saw I believe the Fire Commissioner.
     Q.   Was this the command post by the Winter
Garden?
     A.   It was by the Winter Garden, right.
          The command post was set up.  There was
underground parking garage, and there were two
ramps leading down to the parking garage.  There
was a guard booth in front of the parking garage.
The command post was set up in those ramps, in
that area, directly in front of the entrances to
the two parking garages.
          Companies were starting to respond in.
I remember seeing Eddie Geraghty, Chief Geraghty.
I remember seeing a lot of other people.  I asked
to be put to work.  I wanted to go in.  Basically
Chief Ganci told me he had other jobs for me.
M. DONOVAN 8
          Chief Cassano gave me a job to do.
Chief Cassano was the first one -- and this was
early in the operation.  He said:  "Mike, if
these buildings come down, we're in a terrible
spot.  We're right under these buildings."  He
said:  "What we've got to do is get one of these
buildings, one of the World Financial Center
buildings, open."  He said:  "Find me a building
with a large lobby and a view of the World Trade
Center, but we've got to move this command post."
That was early on.  That was one of the first
jobs they gave me to do.
          I found some building personnel.  On
the facade of the building it said Deloitte &
Touche.  I don't know which building that was.  I
kind of think it was Two World Trade Center, but
I'm not sure.  It said Deloitte & Touche on the
face of the building.
          I got a guard.  It took some time for
the guard to go around with the keys and open the
lobby.  In the meantime the jumpers started
jumping.  Companies were responding in.  Finally
the building personnel came around, opened the
doors.
M. DONOVAN 9
          I went back to Chief Cassano and said:
"Chief, I have a building.  I have a building for
you."  Chief Cassano said:  "Great.  We're moving
the command post."
          We went over and spoke to Chief Ganci,
who was heavily engaged in deploying men.  Chief
Ganci looked around.  He saw that there were
companies in the process of staging.  He had, I
would say, between 30 to 50, maybe 60 men there.
          John Sudnik was organizing the engines
in groups right in front of the parking garage
entrance, trucks on the other ramp in front of
the parking garage entrance.
     Q.   These are all face-to-face
communications you're having?
     A.   Yeah.  I talked to Chief Cassano.
Chief Cassano went over and speak to Chief Ganci
directly.  Chief Ganci saw that there was no way
we were going to be able to move the command
post.  There were just too many people.  It just
simply wasn't going to happen.  He turned to
Chief Cassano and said:  "No, we're not going to
be able to do this."
          Chief Cassano turned to me and kind of
M. DONOVAN 10
shrugged like it was a good idea and it was
something we should have done, but it just wasn't
going to happen.
          With that I looked for another job to
do.  I ran into a man who was in charge of all
the building systems in the World Trade Center,
and he was in the staging area, the command post
area, with us.
          He made the points to me that -- he was
in a green shirt, fifty-ish.  He made the points
that if we were going to make an attack on this
fire to actually fight the fire, there were
certain building systems that had to be
controlled.
          He said that the high-pressure steam
system would have to be shut down.  That was at
B6, basement level six or basement level two.  He
also said that we would have to do something with
the eight track systems.  He said he was capable
of doing that from the basement of the World
Trade Center.
          I offered to do that job with him, to
go into the basement with the radio, shut down
the building systems.  Somehow we got lost in the
M. DONOVAN 11
shuffle on that as far as -- that never happened.
          With that I'm still trying to get into
the building.
     Q.   You're still at the command post?
     A.   I'm still at the command post.  I'm
trying to get into the buildings, but I don't
have a company with me.
          I saw my friend Timmy Stackpole.  I
worked with Timmy for five years in 290 and 103.
Timmy was driving with Dennis Cross, a chief from
the Bedford Stuyvesant section.  I asked Tim if
he was going into the buildings.  He said yes.
Chief Cross was getting his orders.  He was over
at the command post.  He said:  "Mike, that's
fine with me, just  go ask Chief Cross, just let
Chief Cross know."
          I went over to Chief Cross, and he
said:  "I'd like to have you come with me," but
he would have the nozzle if we went in.  He made
a little joke.  With that he said:  "Come on,
we're going." He had just gotten his orders.  He
never really got to tell me what his orders were.
I think later on I found out that he was going to
Two World Trade Center, the south tower.
M. DONOVAN 12
          So with that we started walking off,
and Chief Ganci called me back and said:  "Mike,
don't go with them.  I have another job for you."
And off Dennis Cross and Captain Stackpole went.
Unfortunately they went to their deaths.
          Chief Ganci gave me the job of
monitoring all the radio transmissions in the
south tower.  Because the operation was so big,
he needed people to listen.  So he had me take my
radio, go to Channel 3 and monitor all radio
transmissions.
     Q.   Were you able to hear the transmissions
on the radio at that time?
     A.   Briefly.  I say only briefly because I
had to get a list of all the companies operating
in the south tower, and then I had to start
writing down all the critical information,
responding to when they called the command post.
          That gives us automatic time frame
thing, because I only did that for about two
minutes when the south tower started to collapse.
So I was standing at the guard booth in front of
the parking garage monitoring radio
transmissions.
M. DONOVAN 13
     Q.   You were around the Winter Garden or
Two World Trade Center?
     A.   Right, just south of the pedestrian
bridge where the ramps for the parking garage is
under the buildings.  Whether it was the Winter
Garden, Two World Trade Center, I'm not sure what
building.
     Q.   Who was with you at that point?
     A.   At that point John Sudnik was there,
Chief Cassano, Steve Mosiello, Chief Ganci and
all the companies that were staging, all the
companies that were lining up to go to work.
          Anyway, with that I was listening, and
there was an incredibly loud rumbling.  I never
got to look up.  People started running for the
entrances to the parking garages.  They started
running for the entrances.  I started running
without ever looking up.
          The roar became tremendous.  I fell on
the way to the parking garages.  Debris was
starting to fall all around me.  I got up, I got
into the parking garages, was knocked down by the
percussion.  I thought there had been an
explosion or a bomb that they had blown up there.
M. DONOVAN 14
The Vista International Hotel was my first
impression, that they had blown it up.  I never
got to see the World Trade Center coming down.
          I got into the garage, knocked down,
buried by the debris, buried in the dust, laying
there in the parking garage about 40 feet in and
just waiting for the roof of the parking garage
to collapse on top of me.
          I would say there were about 40 or 50
people in there with us, because all the people
that were staging were there.  After a minute or
two, we all started to get up.  We dug ourselves
out of the dust and the debris.  We thought we
were buried alive in there because there was no
light.  There was no visibility.  We thought that
the entrances had been sealed and that we were
buried alive.
          Somebody said these are parking garages
under a building.  So we came to the conclusion
that there had to be a stairway out, that there
had to be an escape there.  So we started
searching for that.  I called for a set of tools
in case we found doors that had to be forced
open.
M. DONOVAN 15
     Q.   You still couldn't see down there;
right?
     A.   You couldn't see anything.  You could
just barely make out a flashlight from about two
feet away.
          Somebody found a hallway.  The hallway
led to a staircase.  The hallway was lit.  Guys
were fumbling around.  This is all the staff
chiefs and everything and all the companies
staging, fumbling around all parts of the garage.
          I had the mask, I had the CO meter, so
I was able to take hits from the mask.  I could
see that the CO readings were relatively low.
They were only 34 parts per million.  I decided I
would stay there and lead as many people out as
long as I could stand it rather than have them
bumping around in the dark and the dust.  So I
had the advantage of having a mask and CO meter.
I led out I would say 20 or 30 people.
     Q.   So you were communicating with the
people in the garage?
     A.   I was yelling in:  "I have a way out.
This is the way out."  I would say 20 or 30
people came by me.
M. DONOVAN 16
          When I thought we had gotten everybody
out, I went up the stairs.  Somehow we ended up
on Vesey Street.  I don't know how that quite
worked out.  We were on the corner of Vesey and
West.  I headed back to where the command post
had been under the pedestrian north walkway
bridge.  It was still standing at that time.
          I went back to where the command post
was to find a deserted stage and all the debris.
I could see that the parking garage entrances
hadn't been completely sealed.  It was just that
the dust was so thick.  We could have walked out
the way we walked in.  It was so dark that you
thought you couldn't go out that way.
          I got back.  Nobody was there.  It was
in complete disarray.  There was no command
board.  There was really nothing there.
          Shortly thereafter Steve Mosiello, who
was Chief Ganci's executive assistant, came to me
and said they couldn't find Pete.  They couldn't
find Chief Ganci, and they had to go back in the
parking garage to look for him.
          So I started back in the parking garage
to look for Chief Ganci.  He was on his way out
M. DONOVAN 17
as I was coming in.  Chief Ganci was on his way
out.  He was very disoriented.  I brought him
over to Steve Mosiello.
          Chief Ganci made a remark that we had
to move the command post north and we're in a bad
place because that was the south tower that came
down.  After the north tower came down, we were
almost directly under it.
     Q.   So you knew the south tower came down?
You knew it collapsed?
     A.   No, you couldn't see it.  I thought the
Millennium Hotel had been blown up.  In fact, it
took me a long time before I could accept the
fact that even after you could see that the tower
wasn't there you said it had to be there
somewhere.  You couldn't believe that it had come
down.
          So Chief Ganci made the remark we're
moving the command post north.  Almost
immediately everybody that had come back to that
place had started north to West and Vesey.  When
we got to West and Vesey, there was a tall blonde
hair -- I believe was a chief.  I don't know who
he was.  He said we were re-forming down by the
M. DONOVAN 18
river.  We were going to re-form -- we were going
to walk west on Vesey Street and regroup by the
river.
     Q.   North End Street?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   North End and you go to the river
there.
     A.   With that we started walking down
towards the river.  When we got all the way down
to the end of Vesey Street, there was really
nobody there.  There were none of the command
chiefs there.
          We turned around, started walking back,
got about halfway between West Street and North
End.  So it was between three and four.  That's
when the north tower came down.
     Q.   Who was with you at that point?
     A.   At that point I think there was Jimmy
McMahon -- he was a captain also -- and John
Sudnik, but basically we were straggling along.
          Again, I was able to duck into a
doorway.  The dust cloud, the debris, came past
us.
     Q.   Is that the same thing, the rumbling?
M. DONOVAN 19
     A.   Yeah, the whole thing.
          Then after that, after it settled a
little bit, I made my way back.  I was trying to
go back to where the command post had been.  When
I got back to West Street, I saw that the
devastation was incredible.  The north pedestrian
bridge, the north walkway bridge, was down.
There was a tremendous amount of debris on West
Street.  You couldn't even make out that West
Street was a street.
          The strangest thing was that area south
of Vesey Street between the pedestrian bridge and
Vesey Street, that area was completely deserted.
There was heavy dust in the area.  It was like
after a blizzard when there's nobody out and
everything is very quiet and you can't really
see.  The visibility isn't good.
     Q.   You really didn't see any civilians
going by?
     A.   There was nobody.  There was nobody.
It was like Hiroshima after the bomb, not that I
know what Hiroshima was, but just a eerie
stillness.  There was nobody.  I said I have to
start searching this area.
M. DONOVAN 20
          I saw one guy from 41 Engine, and he
said we have to start searching this area.  He
was as disoriented as I was.  The two of us, we
went into what I believe was Three World
Financial Center.  All the windows were broken.
We went in and we started searching in there.  We
didn't find anyone.
          Then he went off one way, and I
continued searching the street area on West
Street from just south of Vesey to the pedestrian
bridge.  I searched there for, I would say, 20
minutes to half an hour, and I didn't see anyone.
I found a lot of masks and equipment all laying
on the ground.  Rigs were buried; rigs were
destroyed.  Cars were on fire.  Buildings were on
fire.
          I searched there by myself for about 20
minutes, half hour.  Then a couple cops started
showing up, and then a couple of photographers
started showing up.
     Q.   Were you able to do any radio
transmissions or was any radio transmissioning
you or did you hear anything on the radio?
     A.   No, I didn't.  I really didn't.  I
M. DONOVAN 21
think something happened on my way there because
it never worked properly after that.  I would get
certain transmissions.  I had been on Channel 3.
Channel 3 was the south tower.  I think most of
those guys were dead, the guys that were on the
same channel with me.  I never thought to turn it
back on until later on.  The radio never really
worked well again after that.
          I searched there for a long while.
Then I saw Patty McNally show up.  I saw Chief
Cruthers and another chief.  Chief McNally was
running the operation at West and Vesey.  What
struck me about Chief McNally was he was the only
one that seemed to really have his head on
straight.
          Chief Cruthers told me that they had
formed another command post up on Chambers
Street.  At this point there were a couple of
floors burning on Seven World Trade Center.
Chief McNally wanted to try and put that fire
out, and he was trying to coordinate with the
command post up on Chambers Street.  This is
after searching for a while.
          He had me running back and forth trying
M. DONOVAN 22
to get companies to go into Seven World Trade
Center. His radio didn't seem to be working right
either because he had me relaying information
back and forth and Chief Cruthers had me --
     Q.   So everything was face-to-face?
Nothing was by radio?
     A.   Yeah, and it was really in disarray.
It really was in complete disarray. We never
really got an operation going at Seven World
Trade Center.
          Then at some point after that -- a
bunch of things happened after that.  I just
can't remember what happened.  I ran into people
that I knew that were missing, knew that they had
family in there.  I saw Jimmy Boyle briefly.  I
saw Mike Hampton from 290 whose son was lost,
Jimmy Richards.  I started doing different
errands like that.
          Then later on I had a chief ask me --
they found Pete Ganci's body, and they had me go
out in the ambulance with his body.  They didn't
want any photographers.  Chief McCann, who might
be good to talk to too, he and I guarded the
ambulance so that none of these photographers
M. DONOVAN 23
would take a picture of the chief of department's
body in the ambulance.  We did that for a long
time because they weren't going to take him to
the morgue until they had gotten Commissioner
Feehan's body out.  So we guarded the ambulance
for a long time.
          Then after that I tried stretching hose
lines.  I hooked up with a friend of mine from 54
Engine and tried to stretch hose into the pile so
that we could protect guys that were searching
the pile for survivors.
          Then about 10:00 at night I went home.
I had to go home and see my kids.
     Q.   At no time you called home or anything?
     A.   What happened was when I was searching
this area and the photographers, I remember the
cops telling the photographers they had to leave
the area.  I offered to escort them out of the
area, with the idea that I knew they'd have a
cell phone on them, the photographers.
          The one photographer tried to place a
call for me and couldn't get a signal out and
then took my number on her arm and called from
wherever later on and told my wife -- I guess
M. DONOVAN 24
about 11 or 12:00 she told my wife I was alive.
I was able to call later in the day at different
points.
          As bad as the destruction was here, it
was ten times as bad like south of the pedestrian
bridge.  When they talked about ground zero, I
always thought they were talking about this
specific spot because this was just the absolute
worst.
          And that was it.
          MR. CUNDARI:  Any questions?
          MS. QUEVEDO:  No.
          MR. CUNDARI:  Thank you for having this
     interview with us.
          CAPTAIN DONOVAN:  Okay.  Good luck.
     Pretty overwhelming; right?
          MR. CUNDARI:  It's 2418.  This
     concludes the interview.
File No. 9110206
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
 SUPERVISING FIRE MARSHAL ROBERT BYRNES
   Interview Date:  November 14, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
R. BYRNES
2
          MR. CUNDARI:  Today's date is November 14,
2001.  The time is 1320 hours.  I'm George Cundari.
I'm here with Murray Murad, Fire Department, City of
New York.  We are conducting an interview with the
following individual:
     Q.   Please state your name, rank, title and
assigned command.
     A.   Robert Byrnes, B-y-r-n-e-s.  I'm the
Supervising Fire Marshal and I'm assigned to the Bureau
of Fire Investigations Special Operations Command.
     Q.   Sir, can you tell us the events of that
tragic day of September 11th?
     A.   Okay.  Originally I was scheduled to have a
vacation day.  I happened to be in the area.  I am
assigned a beeper from Skytel which gives information
regarding the job.  I got a beep in my personal vehicle
that there was a plane crash into the World Trade
Center.
          I happened to be on I think the intersection
was Bedford and Flushing.  I thought that somebody was
actually playing a joke because you can type individual
messages in here.  I said you got to be kidding me,
right?  I happened to look up in the sky and I saw a
plume of smoke crossing I guess it would be south, away
R. BYRNES
3
from Manhattan.
          I immediately rushed to my office.  I went
upstairs to the fourth floor, my offices.  The phone
was ringing off the hook.  My boss was on the phone.
He said, Bobby, can you get over here right away?
We've got a plane crash.
          I looked out the window.  I could see the
smoke blowing off the World Trade Center.  Several
moments later I noticed a second plane and I commented
to myself, look at this nitwit, he's so close, and
before I realized it, he had crashed into the side of
the south tower.
          At that time I ran downstairs.  I grabbed
some fire gear.  I got a department vehicle and I
responded with Mike Kane, who was my tech services guy,
and Michael Starace, who is another Fire Marshal who
works in my command.
          We got to the location.  We came over the
Brooklyn Bridge and went south on the FDR.  We came up
West Street and we parked just outside the entrance to
the Battery Tunnel.  I'm not sure of the name of the
street, but we pulled the car in right behind the
building.  From that point we started to walk up to the
command post where Assistant Chief Fire Marshal McCahey
R. BYRNES
4
was.  On the way up there I noticed parts of bodies,
legs and feet with shoes on, and I realized that this
was more than just a small aircraft that hit these
buildings.
          I checked in at the command post at that time
and decided to go back to the vehicle with Fire Marshal
Kane.  He wanted to get a camera.  I also wanted to get
my blue windbreaker which identified me as a
Supervising Fire Marshal.  We walked back to the
vehicle which was parked on West Street and whatever
street is just outside the Battery Tunnel.
     Q.   Trinity?
     A.   It may be Trinity.
     Q.   Trinity Place?
     A.   Right at West and Trinity.
          I grabbed my jacket.  Mike Kane got the
camera.  We started walking back north on West Street
towards the original location, which was right under
this pedestrian bridge in front of the World Financial
Center.
          As we were walking up there, I was around
between Albany and I thought it was Carlisle or Cedar.
We were right in the middle of the street and I
happened to be looking up at tower number two and
R. BYRNES
5
thinking to myself, how are they ever going to put this
fire out?  It's probably just going to be a rescue
operation until the fire burns itself out.
          As I'm looking up at the building, I hear a
loud noise and I see the south side of the building
collapse.  I see the south upper third of the tower
start to pitch in my direction.  At that point I yelled
to Mike Kane, Mike, it's coming down.  I turned around
and I ran south on West Street.
          I actually ran towards the building line so
that I could get adjacent to the building because I
figured it would protect me from any falling debris
because in my mind I thought the building was actually
toppling.  I didn't realize that it actually tilted and
then came down straight.  My perception was it was
toppling southward.
     Q.   So you ran south you said?
     A.   I ran south on West, but I ran adjacent to
the buildings figuring it would protect me from any
falling debris that may come this direction.
     Q.   This is the south tower collapsing, so the
first collapse?
     A.   Right.
          I ran until I could no longer see and I had
R. BYRNES
6
to slow my pace down.  The cloud of smoke and the
debris was coming around me.  There was a lot of dust.
There were little pieces of debris coming down that
were bouncing around me, glass, small pieces of
concrete.  Nothing hit me.
          I don't know how far I went, but I was able
to find a bus.  I got into the bus and we were able to
breathe in the bus because the bus had fresh air.
There were several civilians in the bus.  There were
two or three windows that were open in the bus as well
as the ceiling vents.  I remember walking through the
bus closing the windows and pulling down the ceiling
vents.  I got back to the front of the bus and the bus
driver asked me, should I start the bus and try to
drive away?  I told him, no, don't start the bus.
Let's just stay put and hope for the best.
          I stayed in there until it got dark.  You
couldn't see.  It was pretty dark in there.  A few
moments later it lightened up.  At that point I came
out of the bus and I started to walk back up on West
Street.  As I'm walking back on West Street I'm
thinking to myself that I'm going to see the bottom
two-thirds of the building still standing there.  I'm
thinking that just the top third came off.  But you
R. BYRNES
7
couldn't see up because the cloud of dust was still
there.
          As I'm walking back up West Street, I'm
seeing lots of papers.  There had to be maybe several
inches of debris in the street, like dust and powder, a
couple little fires I saw burning, like papers and
stuff burning.  I hear a rumbling again.  I realize
that this is the other tower coming down.  At this time
I turn around and I make my way back down West Street.
I wind up down in Battery Park, where I ran into I
believe it was Dr. Prezant.
          I had my Fire Marshal 800-megahertz radio.  I
was trying to reach out to people.  There were no
communications.  I could hear some radio transmissions
between the Fire Marshals, but for some reason I
couldn't transmit.  I think my battery had gone low by
this point.
          Myself and Dr. Prezant were down by Battery
Park at this point.  There were several firefighters
and several other Marshals around.  There was a mobile
command post there.  I went and I spoke to the
communications worker and I asked him what's going on
up there?  He says, absolutely nothing, and I have no
communications going on.  I'm getting no feedback.
R. BYRNES
8
          I was able to change my battery at this point
in time.  He had some spare batteries.  I was with
Dr. Prezant and he and I basically tried to get that
mobile command post to move further away because we
didn't know what else was going to transpire.  We
didn't know if there was still going to be additional
attacks or anything.
          There was a police -- not a scooter but one
of these little I call them cop-in-a-box.  Those little
square boxes.  It was right in the road where we were
trying to get the mobile command post to move down
further into Battery Park.  Me and several civilians
tried to lift this little cop-in-a-box out of the way
and it was much heavier than we thought.  We could only
move it several feet and it dropped to the ground
again.  It was locked and the keys were locked in it.
There was no police officer around.
          Pretty much that's it.  At this time I was
able to reach out to some other Marshals and we decided
to mobilize down at Battery Park and from there draw a
battle plan.  Pretty much that's it.
          Later on we made our way up north to I
believe it was Manhattan Community College and we
established a command post up there.
R. BYRNES
9
     Q.   Your original command post that you went to,
who was there?
     A.   Originally, I went to Assistant Chief
McCahey, there were several Fire Marshals, I don't
remember specifically who.  Fire Marshal Kane and
Starace were with me at that point.  When I returned to
the car, it was only myself and Fire Marshal Kane.
     Q.   And then you saw a lot of victims coming down
the street?
     A.   Well, there were a lot of people coming down
the street.  I mean, when I ran, I wasn't really
looking behind me.  There were other people in the
street, and I basically ran until I couldn't run any
more or I couldn't see to run.  Then I got into a bus
and I was able to breathe.  Actually, that helped us
breathe and get some fresh air for a period of time
while most of the debris came down.  Fortunately,
nothing large came down in that area and nothing large
hit the bus.
     Q.   After the first collapse, did you hear
firefighters around you or paramedics?
     A.   I was in the bus.  After the first collapse,
I made my way down West Street.  I couldn't tell you if
there were other firefighters.  I was basically running
R. BYRNES
10
south on West Street.  When I got into the bus, there
were no other firefighting personnel on the bus.  It
was myself and maybe four or five civilians as well as
the bus driver.
     Q.   So it was very quiet around you after the
collapse?
     A.   Well, there were people coming down.  Some
people were running past the bus.  Other people got on
the bus.  Then you couldn't see outside the bus because
it got to the point where it was just really dark and
you couldn't see what was going on outside, and we
basically weathered the storm in there until it got
brighter again.
     Q.   When you switched batteries to the 800 radio,
was there any improvement in communications?
     A.   I was able to transmit at that point.  If I
remember, it was intermittently.  There was a lot of
radio traffic.  People were stepping on one another.
When I talk about the 800-megahertz radio, that's
specifically for the BFI.  That's not for the field
units on that frequency.
     Q.   I just want to check.  It was Mike Kane that
was with you?
A. Yes.
R. BYRNES
Q.   And who was the other Fire Marshal?
A.   Mire Starace.
Q.   How does Mike spell his last name?
A.   S-t-a-r-a-c-e.
     MR. MURAD:  That's it.
11
          MR. CUNDARI:  I'd like to thank you for
coming and conducting this interview with us.  At this
time it's 1330 hours.  This is the end of the
interview.
File No. 9110207
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
   CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER KERRY KELLY
   Interview Date:  November 15, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
K. KELLY
2
          MS. ROM:  Today's date is Thursday, November
15, 2001.  The time now is 1630 hours.  This is
Patricia Rom of the Fire Department of the City of New
York.  I'm here to conduct a World Trade Center
interview.  I'm conducting the interview with the
following individual:  Dr. Kerry Kelly, Chief Medical
Officer assigned to the Fire Department of the City of
New York.
     Q.   What we'd like to do, if you can tell us when
you first learned about the World Trade Center disaster
and then describe the events afterwards therefrom.
     A.   I was at Staten Island University Hospital
making rounds on my patients and I got on my beeper
that an airplane had crashed into the World Trade
Center.  I was in the room with a lady by the name of
Mrs. Murray.  When I saw the beep, I thought, oh, this
is going to be bad.  I didn't want to frighten her,
though.  So I just said, oh, all right.  Have a good
day.  I've got to go.  Then her neighbor in the room
said, oh, my God, a plane hit the Trade Center.  And
she said, oh, my goodness, my sons are firefighters.  I
said, oh, they'll be okay.  Don't worry.  They'll be
fine.  I said have a good day, and then I left the
hospital right away and jumped into my car and headed
K. KELLY
3
for Manhattan.  I made great time getting in because I
had the emergency lane.  So I got in and through the
tunnel, I would say, before 9:30 in the morning.
          As I came up West Street, I went and turned
left on Albany Street and I found a place to park.  I
was so happy that I got a place to park.  So I got out
of the car and I looked back, and on West Street there
was this molten car there that had just been burnt and
was just sitting there.  I thought, oh, my goodness,
this is bad.  These cars are just being destroyed.
          A fire captain came up to me, Captain Hank
Cerasoli, and he said you've got to take care of
yourself.  He said there's stuff falling down here.
Where's your helmet?  I said I have my turnout coat,
which I put on, but I can't find my helmet in the car.
So he said, well, we'll go over to Ladder 10, they're
right around the corner, and we'll get you a helmet.
So I said okay.
          So we walked up by West Street and Liberty
Street, and as we walked along Liberty Street there, it
was just awful.  I mean, people were coming out windows
and there were just body parts all over on the ground
and it was just a horrible scene.  You could see the
smoke billowing out of the tower.
K. KELLY
4
          I don't think I was really aware at that
point, because I hadn't checked my beeper again, that
both towers were on fire and that there were two plane
crashes.  I only knew about the one plane crash.  I
didn't realize that there was more than one tower on
fire.  I really wasn't looking at it and I wasn't sure
which tower was which.
          So I went into the firehouse with him and
there were civilians there who had been injured who
were sitting there looking dazed.  I talked to the
captain there and said I've got to go to the command
center.  Normally my job is to take care of injured
firefighters, and I would normally go to the command
center to find the injured firefighters and direct
where they should go or do some immediate treatment.
So I said where is the command center?  They said I
think they're moving out of the towers.
          I couldn't get through on my phone, so I
tried to use the walkie-talkie part of my phone, the
Nextel phone, and I was able to get ahold of
Commissioner Tierney.  I said to her where are you?  I
said I'm here at 10 and 10 and I need to find the
command center.  She said, well, we're leaving the
tower and we're going across the street to the World
K. KELLY
5
Financial Center.  So I said all right.  I'll meet you
over there.
          As we were leaving the building, and I had my
helmet, we walked to the back of the firehouse.  The
captain said you can just go up there by the civilian
bridge, and I thought, I don't want to go back on that
road because I knew all the bodies were coming down and
there were body parts and I thought this is too
dangerous.  As I came out of the back of the building,
the television was on and they mentioned the Pentagon
being hit, and that's when I realized that this was a
terrorist attack.
          So we crossed through a building and ended up
on West Street again, and as we came out on West
Street --
     Q.   "We" meaning?
     A.   The captain and I.  The captain had stayed
with me the whole time.
          As we came out, some of the firefighters
recognized me and they said, doc, come over here.
There's a guy injured.  I went over and it was Danny
Suhr, and he had been hit on the head and his whole
head and skull had been sort of crushed and he was
bleeding profusely.
K. KELLY
6
          So we got him onto the ambulance and we
started to do resuscitation of him.  And he clearly
wasn't doing very well.  So I said all right, let's get
the ambulance going.  Just get him right to the
hospital.  There's nothing more we can do right here.
Let's get him to the hospital.  Some of the
firefighters said are you going to come?  I said no,
I've got to go to the command center.  I said a few of
you go with him, but get him to the hospital.
          So I got out of the ambulance and continued
to cross the street, and I was crossing the street
then, so I'm now on West Street between, I guess, right
around Cedar street there.  As I crossed West Street
and came up, it's like a little grassy-type hill, I see
what looks like the command center to my left with the
white table with a few of the guys there, and I end up
seeing a patient of mine.  I said I'm looking for the
command center.  I said what are you doing here?  He
said you'd better watch out.  You're going to get
hurt.  He said take care of yourself or whatever.
          Then I could see people start to run, and the
captain says come on.  The building is falling.  I said
what building is falling?  And I looked back and I
could see sort of the top of the building and it looked
7
Financial Center.  There's like a little, tiny facade
there and he pushes me in, and the two of us are like
hugging each other.  I pulled my helmet down and my
coat up, and I just thought I was going to die.  I
mean, everything started coming down and it turned
black and there was just this noise of everything
coming down.  I was pretty closed in, and the back of
my left leg was, I guess, a little exposed, so I could
feel stuff hitting the back of my leg.  I just thought,
I'm going to die.  I thought this is it.
          You just sort of waited to die.  You think of
things like Timmy Stackpole always used to say 40 and
out to get out of the job, and a lot of people would
leave after 20 years.  I would think that's not the
right attitude.  You should stay.  And I thought, I
have 20 years.  What am I doing here?  Then I thought,
no one even knows I'm here.  This is so strange.
          Then it just seemed like, as each sort of
second or moment passed, I kept thinking, well, I'm not
dead yet, I'm not dead yet, I'm not dead yet, and then
there was silence and it finally stopped falling.  But
it was pitch black and there was all this stuff in the
K. KELLY
like there's a lot more smoke.
          So we stood in the facade of 1 World
K. KELLY
8
air, and I thought, oh, now we're probably buried.
This will be the final thing.  You'll survive but
you'll be trapped.
          Then we waited a few minutes and waited a few
minutes, and then it got a little bit lighter, so you
could see that you could at least put your foot out.
So we went out and there was a thick layer of debris.
Again, it's still pitch black and the air is just thick
with paper and materials and you cannot see more than a
foot or two ahead of you, and we're just covered with
all of the stuff.
          Then the captain says we have to find Gerard
and Chris.  These were the two firefighters who had
been with us. He said we have to find them.  We have
to make sure we find them.  I said we still have to
find the command center.  So we headed off and he's
calling Gerard and Chris and we're walking along.
Again, it's like going through a snowstorm, and I have
sandals on, so my feet are like I just can't walk in
these sandals.
          So as we come around Albany I said, look,
I've got to --
     Q.   Did you see any people around at that point?
     A.   No.  Because you could only see like a foot
K. KELLY
9
or two ahead.  You hear maybe some muffled sounds, but
it's a really silent kind of feeling, like after a
snowstorm.  But you know how in a snowstorm everything
is illuminated and bright?  This is a snowstorm where
everything is black and dark, so it made it extra
dark.  I mean, you would think it was the middle of the
night in the middle of a blizzard, and it's still going
on, because the air is just so thick with material and
papers.
          As we're walking, I said I've got to go to my
car.  I have got to get sneakers.  I cannot walk in
these things.  So I see my car there, which is covered
with stuff, and I pull open the car.  The captain says
we've got to find Gerard and Chris.  I said don't
worry.  We will find Gerard and Chris, but I cannot
walk in these sandals.
          I have now a blue shift dress on.  So I said
I have just survived death.  I'm just changing on the
street.  I've had it.  So I put on shorts and a top, I
put on my sneakers, and I put my coat back on and my
helmet, and I said okay.  I think I got rid of my
pocketbook at that time.  I can't even remember.
     Q.   Where was the last place that you saw Gerard
and Chris?
K. KELLY
10
     A.   They were just ahead of us as we started
running.  So they must have made it further around the
side of the building.
          We now see someone on the street who is
injured and someone says we need help.  So we take this
person and we help carry him around, and there's like a
parking garage on Albany.  It's right off of West
Street on Albany.  There's a parking garage right here,
I guess, right in here.
          So we put this person in the garage to at
least be out of the debris and everything, and he is
bleeding and he's complaining about his abdomen.  He's
complaining about his right lower abdomen, and it looks
like part of his finger has been sort of sliced off,
and he's really complaining.  I said we've got to get
him some help because he might have some sort of an
injury to his abdominal cavity, a perforation or
something, so we've got to get him some help.  Let's
put him here until we can find some help.
          Then there's another guy who comes around who
is bleeding from his head.  So we put him in there,
too, and we said sit down, and I think we got some
water.  One of the guys, Mike Sheppard, takes off his
shirt and he dipped that in water and we put that on
K. KELLY
11
the guy's head for the bleeding, and we had the other
guy lay down.  We were able to find sort of a -- it
wasn't a gurney exactly.
     Q.   Mike Sheppard came from where?
     A.   He just sort of came.  He was there.
     Q.   Is he a firefighter?
     A.   He's a firefighter.  He's a firefighter who
was off duty.  He came in to help out.
          So we then said we needed supplies.  We
needed to see if we could find an ambulance to help
transport this guy because I knew he had to go to the
hospital.  So I come out on the street again.  Now,
again, I'm on Albany Street.
          Oh, I saw Chief Lakiotes around that time,
too.  I think when I was changing I ran into Chief
Lakiotes.  He was looking around for people.
          Now, across the street I could see people
coming out of like a garage underneath the World Trade
Center, but I couldn't make out who they were because I
could just see forms in the distance.
          So we go into this office building, again,
that's off of Albany to get supplies because there's a
dental office there.  So I go in there to see if we can
get some supplies thinking they might have bandages or
K. KELLY
12
something to help this guy, and the place was locked
up.  So we come out again onto Albany Street and we're
walking.
          Now we're on Albany by Washington Street and
all of a sudden there's like another loud noise, and
Mike Sheppard says something about the building falling
and he drags me in, I mean, pulls me in to a revolving
door, and a bunch of other firefighters jump in there,
too.  So now there's about eight us of in the lobby of
this building, and you hear the whoosh of everything
going by the street, and the second building has now
collapsed.  But, again, you don't really realize that's
what it is.  You just know another building has
fallen.
          Again, more black stuff coming down the
street and visibility is bad or whatever, and we are
now in the lobby and there's no electricity.  So it's
pitch black in the lobby and you can't see outside
because everything is pitch black.  So we open up a
door and we find all these civilians that are like
hidden away in like a stairway of the basement, and
we're looking for lights or flashlights.  We can't find
anything.  Still no supplies.  So I go out again in the
building and the captain is there, and he says where
K. KELLY
13
were you?  I was worried.  I lost sight of you.  I
said, no, I'm okay.  I said Mike here helped me.
          So we're now able to go around, and now
you're like so jittery because you're saying what is
going to happen next?  How many more things are going
to fall here?  We were able to get an ambulance.  So we
were able to go over, and I don't know if we got a
gurney.  What did we get?  We went over and got what
was almost like a coat rack on wheels.  We went over
and got him on that and moved him over to this
ambulance.  We then got this guy whose name was Kevin
Shea.  This is a firefighter who has been injured.  I
remember the name because at the last World Trade
Center, one of the men who was severely injured and
ended up retiring from it was Kevin Shea. The name of
the gentleman or the firefighter with the scalp and
head injury I can't remember at this point.  But we get
him on the ambulance and then we close the door of the
ambulance, and now we start heading over toward the
river.
          As we head over to the river, it's amazing.
It's like light.  You can see that it's daytime and you
realize that it is still a blue sky.  We walk over by
the river and now the police boats are coming up, and
K. KELLY
14
the same ambulance that we put the guy on has turned
around and is now going to unload the same people we
put on, this Kevin Shea and the other guy.  So now we
help with the gurney and get them on the police boat to
put them on.
          I said where are you taking the guys?  He
said we're taking them over to a staging area, I think
they said on Ellis Island, and I thought to myself,
they're attacking our country.  The next thing they're
going to do is attack the Statue of Liberty.  How can
we send people over so near what could be the next
target?  But they were taking them off.
          So we walked down by the river.  As we walked
down by the river, I came by the Brooklyn Battery
area.  I asked several people, I said, do you know
where the command center is?  Do you know where the
command center is?  No one knew anything and nothing
was working.  My radio and my phone weren't working.  I
had nothing on my beeper.  So I didn't know what was
going on.
          So I go to the Brooklyn Battery, the park
there, and I see Chief Nigro, who I was so happy to
see, and I saw Dr. Prezant, who I was so happy to see,
and I saw this Fire Marshal, a Supervising Fire
K. KELLY
15
Marshal.  I'm trying to think of his name.  Brown hair,
tall.  What is his name?  I remember his wife's name.
     Q.   Brown hair, tall.
     A.   McCahey.
          Now, there is an operations command center
there, but none of their phones are working.  There's
no communication now.  So we said we've got to go back
up to the World Trade Center area to find the command
center.  So we head up, a group of us.
     Q.   Who is with you at this point?
     A.   Chief Nigro, myself, Dr. Prezant.  I think
McCahey was with us.  He had a few aides with him,
Chief Nigro.  And it just felt like we were the last
survivors because there was like no one around.  As you
head back up, you've left the daylight and you're
heading back up to this dark area again because it's
still pitch black up there.
          As we're heading our way back up, most of the
other people are kind of leaving the area, the few
people that you see, the civilians, and you still can't
make out anyone's features.  They're covered with the
white and the chalky material.  My eyes, everything is
just burning and you're still choking and I just could
not see.  My eyes were so irritated.
K. KELLY
16
          So we get to a flower shop that's there,
which is open for business like nothing has happened.
It was one of those Korean grocery things and they're
putting everything out like business as usual, and I'm
thinking are these people crazy?  So I took their hose
and I'm like hosing down my face and my head just to
get free of all the debris.
          Now, as we walked our way up, there is a
little hardware store that says phone calls and
bathrooms.  We said we've got to go to the bathroom and
we've got to use the phone.  So we went in and I was
able to call my mother and say I'm okay, I'm alive.
Tell my husband.  Tell the kids I'm alive.  Tell
Dr. Prezant's wife.  We gave her the number.  You know,
we survived, we're okay.
          So then we headed back up.  They now have a
new command center set up right below City Hall Park on
Broadway.  Chief Haring is there and he is bringing the
new troops in to go back into the World Trade area.
There is a Duane Reade right there that we took over
and made a triage center.  So we were able to sort of
take over that place.  There was a little smashing of
windows and stuff, doors.  But we were able to put
together supplies to set up a triage center in that
K. KELLY
17
building.
          Then the other medical officers showed up.
Dr. Ortiz was there and Dr. Feirstein showed up and
Dr. Maloney was there and Dr. Garvey was there, who are
our medical officers, plus other doctors who we didn't
know showed up and some nurses and all.  So we were
setting up equipment in the Duane Reade and the
neighboring area thinking all the injured would come
in.
          Then someone came over and told me that
Father Judge was dead and that he had been brought into
the church right around the corner.  I guess it's St.
Paul's or St. Peter's right around the corner there.
They said that he's on the alter there of the church.
          So a few minutes later some of the friars
from his rectory came because they want to now remove
his body.  I said I don't know if you should be
removing it right now because he's in a safe place
where he is and I don't have available gurneys because
I'm expecting all these injured to come.  And, of
course, no one came.  We didn't really get any
injuries.  We got a few eye irritations but really no
injuries, and we're still expecting injuries to come
from the field.
K. KELLY
18
          When you'd walk outside, you'd see faces that
you knew of different firefighters who were coming in
from home or other units arriving and they were pulling
people together, and you were just so struck, too, by
the lack of communication.  In order to talk to people,
they would have to send someone, you know, give them a
message and say now go run over there, tell them, and
then come back with the message.  So it was like this
primitive means of communicating.  Then we heard that
this Duane Reade was a problem.  It was an unsafe
area.
          Oh, I know.  We realized at this point, when
we're in the Duane Reade, that this was actually the
building of the UFOA, the union building.  So one of
the girls came down and said do you need to use a
bathroom.  So we went upstairs and got cleaned up a
little bit and told the people who were there what had
happened and then went back down.
          Then we had to move because the Duane Reade,
they said, wasn't safe because building 7 was really
roaring.  So we then found a new triage center over in
Pace.  We went into the Pace auditorium and took that
over and set up a new triage center there.  We were
there most of the day and, again, there were no
K. KELLY
19
injuries coming in.  Very few.  Eye irritations.  So
about 9:00 o'clock at night, maybe 10:00, we decided it
was silly to keep the place open.
          In the meantime, people are starting to
arrive telling us about who had died.  We found out
about Chief Feehan dying and Chief Ganci dying, and we
were starting to understand that more and more people
were missing and presumed dead. So there was really
the feeling of sadness.  That's why we weren't getting
any injuries because people were essentially dead.
     Q.   Did you see Chief Ganci or Chief Feehan while
you were on the scene at all?
     A.   No.  I had not seen them.
          Oh, I know.  I saw Steve Gregory.
Commissioner Gregory was there.  He helped us out in
the garage.  I was happy to see him because he was a
familiar face, too.
          It was funny.  It was just, when you saw
people you knew, you were so happy they were alive.
There really was a sense, when you saw people, of thank
God, they're alive.  There was a feeling of happiness
that, you know, I felt very happy to be alive.
     Q.   And Gerard and Chris?
     A.   Oh, we found them and they were fine.  That
K. KELLY
20
was good.
     Q.   Where did you find them?
     A.   Somewhere along that street, I believe.  I
know.  When we were over by the river, we found them
over by there, if I'm not mistaken.  We were putting
people on the ambulance.
          The captain was one of the people who went
back up with us to the command center, too.  He really
was great.  He stayed by me, by my side, and then
throughout the day he would come back and check on me
to see that I was okay.  He also helped out
Dr. Manner.  The orthopedist had come to help out and
he made sure she was okay.  He checked on her.
          We were just so lucky to see people that we
knew and that took care of us.  I can't complain.  I'm
lucky to be here.
     Q.   The command center that you thought you saw
when you were first on the scene, where did you say
that was and what did it look like?  Was there anybody
that you could make out who was there?
     A.   Let's see.  It was in front of this 1 World
Financial building, and there was like a big, green
fence, and it was in front of a green fence.  I mean,
the command center, it's like a card table sort of.
K. KELLY
21
Not really.  But it's a card table with a white board
like that and then on the board they put the different
companies that are there.
          So I think Steve Gregory was at that command
center, and I think he's one of the people that I saw
out of the corner of my eye prior to everything
falling, and he's certainly the person I saw after.
Chief Lakiotes might have been at that command center,
too.  I don't know.  But those are the two that I saw
after the event.  I think that was the command center
for tower 2.  I never found the 1 World Trade Center
command center.
          When you go to these events, you don't even
know which World Trade Center is which.  I didn't
really know that the two planes had hit both buildings.
     Q.   You said you had a radio at some point.  What
was that radio you were using when you were able to get
through to Commissioner Tierney?
     A.   Well, I have a phone.  I have a Nextel phone,
and one part of it is a regular phone and there's
another part that's a walkie-talkie.  I'm always
terrible at technology, so I usually never use the
walkie-talkie because I've never quite mastered it.
That day I was desperate because I couldn't get the
K. KELLY
22
phones to work, so I got the walkie-talkie to work.
For once it worked and I got hold of Lynn Tierney and
she answered back to me that she was there and where
she was.  So it helped me at least know to go across
West Street.
          But when I heard World Financial Center,
again, I didn't realize there was a 1 and a 2 World
Financial Center.  So I was heading across the street
and ended up at 1 World Financial Center, and I gather
she was up by 2 World Financial Center.
     Q.   During your time there, did you notice where
fire apparatus vehicles were or where anybody was lined
up?
     A.   Well, I knew on West Street there were a lot
of ambulances around there and I saw fire engines
there, but I don't really notice those numbers too
much.  I just know when I saw that first car that was
just molten, I thought, oh, my God, if something
happens to this car, I am in big trouble.  This was a
brand-new Department car and I kept thinking they're
going to kill me if something happens to this car.
     Q.   This car you saw was a private vehicle, the
car?
     A.   You couldn't tell.
K. KELLY
Q.   You couldn't tell?
23
     A.   You absolutely couldn't tell.  But it was
sort of like that was the first sign that this was not
an ordinary day.  When you look across and see this car
and your mind goes from great parking spot to, oh, my
goodness.
          Then I think seeing the bodies and seeing
people coming out of the buildings, that was really one
of the worst parts, at least visual-wise, that was one
of the worst parts of the day.  Then the feeling that
you were going to die was a terrible part of the day.
But then once that had happened, everything was so
covered over that you really couldn't see anything
after that.  Your vision was so limited.  It really was
like a winter snowstorm.  That's how it felt.  It was
as though all the weather and all the summer,
everything was shut off, and it was suddenly a
snowstorm blanketing all of Manhattan, only a black
snowstorm.  It really was.
     Q.   Is there anything else you would like to
include as part of this interview?
     A.   No.
     Q.   I think you summed it up.
     A.   I probably did more talking than I should
have.
K. KELLY
24
          MS. ROM:   All right, then.  I'd like to
thank you for your time.
          THE WITNESS:  Thank you.  This is wonderful.
          MS. ROM:   Thank you for taking the time to
do this.  I'm going to conclude this interview.  The
time is now 1700 hours.  It's still Thursday, November
15, 2001.

FILE NO 9110208
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW CHIEF STEPHEN KING
INTERVIEW DATE NOVEMBER 21 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY NANCY FRANCIS

KING
MR MCCOURT THE DATE IS NOVEMBER 21ST
2001 THE TIME IS 1142 HOURS MY NAME IS TOM MCCOURT FROM THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT AM WITH
MR MURAD MURRAY MURAD WITH THE NEW YORK
CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT
MR MCCOURT WERE CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW
WITH
THAT TOOK
GIVE YOUR NAME AND RANK SIR
BATTALION CHIEF STEPHEN KING
WHAT COMMAND ARE YOU WITH
IM WITH THE SAFETY BATTALION
CHIEF KING COULD YOU DESCRIBE THE EVENTS PLACE ON SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
OKAY ON SEPTEMBER 11TH WAS THE SAFETY CHIEF ON DUTY RESPOND TO ALL SECOND OR GREATER ALARMS FOR THE ENTIRE CITY CAME INTO WORK ABOUT
700 OCLOCK THAT MORNING AND WAS WITH THE OFF GOING BATTALION CHIEF WE WERE IN THE KITCHEN HAVING COFFEE
DO YOU REMEMBER WHO THAT WAS
YES IT WAS BATTALION CHIEF BRIAN
OFLAHERTY WE CAME BACK AROUND INTO THE OFFICE
WORK OUT OF THE BROOKLYN NAVY YARD WE RESPOND OUT OF THE MARINE DIVISION BUILDING OF THE BROOKLYN NAVY YARD WHEN WE WALKED BACK INTO THE OFFICE WE HAVE

KING
PICTURE WINDOW THAT LOOKS RIGHT OUT ON LOWER MANHATTAN CHIEF OFLAHERTY WALKED IN THE OFFICE
FIRST WAS RIGHT BEHIND HIM AS SOON AS HE WALKED
IN THE OFFICE HE SAID OH MY GOD LOOK AT THAT WE SAW THE BUILDING WAS ON FIRE THE TRADE CENTER
BUILDING THE NORTH TOWER WAS ON FIRE DIDNT KNOW WHAT CAUSED IT
WAS THE CHIEF ON DUTY THE SECOND SAW IT TURNED AROUND TO MY AIDE WHO WAS RIGHT BEHIND
ME BOBBY CRAWFORD WHO IS MISSING IN THE BUILDING AND SAID TO HIM LETS GET GOING BOBBY NORMALLY WE WOULD WAIT FOR TICKET TO RESPOND LIKE ANY LINE UNIT
CERTAINLY KNEW THAT ID BE ROLLING IN ON THAT SO DIDNT EVEN WAIT FOR TICKET TO RESPOND TOLD HIM
LETS JUST GET IN THE CAR AND GET DOWN THERE
SO WE IMMEDIATELY WENT DOWN TO THE CAR AND
PROCEEDED TO THE SITE WE WENT OVER THE BROOKLYN
BRIDGE WE WERE IN THERE VERY RAPIDLY WELL BEFORE THE
PLANE HIT THE SECOND TOWER
WHEN WE PULLED UP TO THE SCENE THERE WAS AN
AWFUL LOT OF DEBRIS COMING DOWN FROM THE NORTH TOWER
DO YOU REMEMBER HOW FAR IN YOU GOT WHERE YOU
WERE PARKED
WELL YOU KNOW WHAT DONT KNOW WHAT

KING
STREET WE CAME IN ON WE GOT FAIRLY CLOSE TO THE
BUILDING WE WERE PRETTY CLOSE IN WE STOPPED THE CAR THERE WAS SO MUCH COMING DOWN THAT IT WAS FALLING
AROUND THE CAR THERE WERE SOME JUMPERS THERE WAS LOT OF DEBRIS COMING DOWN WE RESPONDED AND WE WERE NOT DRESSED IN FIRE GEAR YET WE WOULD NORMALLY GET
OUT OF THE CAR AND PUT OUR GEAR ON AT THE REAR OF THE CAR WAS CONCERNED THAT WE COULD GET STRUCK IN THE STREET
OFF TO THE SIDE THAT HAD SIDEWALK CONSTRUCTION BOBBY CRAWFORD SAID BOBBY PULL THE CAR OVER THERE SO WE CAN GET OUT AND
GET UNDER THE SHED WHILE WE GET DRESSED SO WE PULLED THE CAR OVER TO WHERE THE SHED WAS AND WE GOT OUT AND GOT DRESSED UNDER THE PROTECTION OF THAT SHED THERE WAS AGAIN LOT OF DEBRIS COMING DOWN THERE WERE JUMPERS HITTING THE STREET LITERALLY HAD QUITE CONCERN THAT YOU COULD GET STRUCK JUST TRYING TO RUN FROM WHERE WE WERE INTO THE BUILDING WHICH WOULD SAY WAS ABOUT 100 FEET AWAY
DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT STREET YOU WERE ON
YOU KNOW WHAT DONT WASNT PAYING ATTENTION UNFORTUNATELY THERE WAS SO MUCH GOING ON
SO SAW BUILDING CONSTRUCTION SHED AROUND IT
SHED AND HAD TOLD THE AIDE

KING
WITH RADIO COMMUNICATIONS ON THE MOBILE RADIO THAT
WAS TRYING TO TAKE IN AND LOOKING AT THE BUILDING THAT IT WAS KIND OF OVERWHELMING DIDNT PAY AN AWFUL LOT OF ATTENTION TO WHICH STREET WE WERE ON WHEN WE PULLED IN
WERE YOU AWARE OF WHAT HAPPENED WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES WERE
NO DID NOT KNOW
THEY DIDNT COME OVER THE RADIO WITH WHAT HAD
HAPPENED
NO IVE BEEN TOSSING AND TURNING WITH THIS FOR LONG TIME DONT BELIEVE THAT IT WAS CLEAR TO
ME THAT IT WAS AN AIRPLANE AT ALL CERTAINLY COULD SEE THAT HAD MAJOR EVENT MEAN IT LOOKED TO ME LIKE THERE WAS FIRE ON EIGHT TO TWELVE FLOORS KNOW IN MY OWN MIND THOUGHT IT WAS SOME SORT OF AN EXPLOSION THAT TO GET SOMETHING GOING THAT RAPIDLY
YOU KNOW TO COVER THAT MANY FLOORS SOMETHING DRAMATIC HAD HAPPENED BUT DONT BELIEVE UNDERSTOOD AT THAT
POINT THAT IT WAS PLANE CRASH
WE RAN INTO THE LOBBY LITERALLY YOU HAD AN
IMPENDING FEELING THAT IT WAS NOT GOING TO BE GOOD DAY AS MATTER OF FACT THINK SAID TO BOBBY ON
THE WAY IN SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT SAID BOBBY

KING
THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE GOOD DAY THERE WAS JUST SO MUCH HAPPENING YOU COULD SEE RIGHT AWAY THAT THE MAGNITUDE OF THIS EVENT THOUGH NEVER EXPECTED THAT TOWER MIGHT COLLAPSE
YOU NEVER THOUGHT THAT
NO DONT THINK EVER THOUGHT THAT
KNOW DIDNT THINK THAT NOT UNDERSTANDING THAT
AN AIRLINER FULL OF FUEL IT WAS SO MUCH EASIER
WATCHING ON TV LATER AND PEOPLE TELLING THERE WERE SO MANY THOUSANDS OF GALLONS OF FUEL ET CETERA WHEN YOU HEAR ALL OF THAT YOU CAN START SAYING TO YOURSELF THIS BUILDING COULD FAIL BUT NO DONT BELIEVE EVER THOUGHT ABOUT THAT KNEW HAD VERY SERIOUS FIRE AND WASNT ANTICIPATING BUILDING FAILURE AT THAT
POINT AT ALL
ANYWAY SO WE GOT INTO THE LOBBY AND WHEN SAW DEPUTY CHIEF HAYDEN AND HAD SEEN
GOT THERE
CHIEF CALLAN
OR WHEN CAME BACK TO THE COMMAND POST BUT CHECKED IN WITH CHIEF HAYDEN AND THERE WAS AN AWFUL LOT GOING ON IT WAS OBVIOUSLY EXTREMELY BUSY THE
HANDIE TALKIES WERE ALMOST OVERWHELMED WITH THE AMOUNT OF TRANSMISSIONS GOING ON
WAS THERE RADIO COMMUNICATION IT WAS WORKING
DONT REMEMBER IF SAW HIM RIGHT AWAY
IT WAS

AT THE TIME
KING
YES THERE WAS RADIO COMMUNICATION
HANDIE TALKIE COMMUNICATION IT WAS WORKING ASKED CHIEF HAYDEN IF WE WERE USING COMMAND CHANNEL AND HE
SAID WE WERE USING COMMAND CHANNEL AND SWITCHED OVER TO THE COMMAND CHANNEL ASKED HIM WHAT HE
WANTED ME TO DO
CHIEF HAYDEN AND GO BACK LONG WAY HE WAS CHIEF OF SAFETY IMMEDIATELY BEFORE ME SO WE YE WORKED TOGETHER AND HE KNOWS SAFETY CHIEFS JOB INHERENTLY BECAUSE LIKE SAY HE WAS CHIEF OF SAFETY FOR COUPLE OF YEARS
HE SAID DO ME FAVOR STEVE JUST CHECK OUT IF WE HAVE ANY ELEVATORS THAT MIGHT BE USABLE
CHECK OUT THE STAIRWELLS JUST GIVE ME AN IDEA WHATS GOING ON SAID OKAY
LEFT WITH MY AIDE WE WALKED AROUND THE LOBBY TRYING TO GET AN IDEA IF THERE WERE ANY
ELEVATORS THERE WERE NO ELEVATORS WE JUST WANTED TO SEE IF MAYBE SOMETHING LOOKED LIKE IT MIGHT BE ABLE TO
BE PUT BACK IN SERVICE SOMEHOW WE LOOKED AROUND AT THE ELEVATOR BANKS NOTHING WAS IN USE WE WENT AROUND TO THE ESCALATORS THIS IS IN THE NORTH TOWER WE WENT TO THE ESCALATORS THEY WERENT FUNCTIONING

KING
WE WALKED UP TO THE PROMENADE LEVEL VISITING LEVEL
IM NOT SURE WHAT THEY CALL IT IM NOT OVERLY
FAMILIAR WITH THE TRADE CENTER BUILDINGS AS MATTER OF FACT THE LAST TIME WAS IN IT WAS THE 93 EVENT
WE GOT UP THERE WE STARTED CHECKING OUT THE STAIRWELL WHEN SAY WE ITS MY AIDE BOBBY CRAWFORD AND MYSELF
JUST THE TWO OF YOU NOBODY ELSE WAS WITH
YOU
NO NOBODY ELSE WAS WITH ME WE WALKED INTO THE FIRST STAIRWELL AND WALKED UP ONE FLIGHT OF
STAIRS THERE WERE PEOPLE COMING DOWN WE WERE TRYING TO GET SOMEWHAT OF AN ASSESSMENT OF YOU KNOW WERE
SITUATIONS WHICH ONE MIGHT BE BETTER TO ACCESS TO GO UPSTAIRS ET CETERA
THERE ANY PANIC
FOR FIREFIGHTERS WHAT
DOWN HOW WERE
WOULD SAY THAT THERE WAS NO PANIC
WAS THE DEMEANOR OF THE CIVILIANS
COMING
THEY ACTING
PROBABLY SHOCK BUT QUITE ORDERLY BELIEVE IT WAS FOUR STAIRCASES WAS IN THREE OF THE FOUR
STAIRWELLS THEY ALL SEEMED TO BE PRETTY MUCH THE
SAME DIDNT SEE PUSHING SHOVING ANYTHING THAT RESEMBLED PANIC IT SEEMED TO BE JUST PEOPLE RATHER
ORDERLY COMING DOWN

KING
AS MATTER OF FACT WHEN FIREMEN WERE GOING UPSTAIRS THE CIVILIANS COMING DOWN TENDED TO HUG TO
THE RIGHT AND THE FIREMEN WERE GOING UP TO THE LEFT SIDE PASSING THEM AND SOME OF THEM WERE PATTING THEM ON THE BACK SAYING GOD BLESS YOU AND THAT SORT OF
THING BUT REALLY AT LEAST AT THESE LOWER FLOORS AND WAS ONLY AT THE LOWER FLOORS BUT IT WAS QUITE ORGANIZED AND WORKING VERY SMOOTHLY AT THOSE LOWER LEVELS HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE CONDITIONS MIGHT HAVE BEEN UP HIGHER
WHAT WAS THE CONDITION OF THE STAIRWELLS
THEMSELVES SMOKY HOT ANYTHING YOU NOTICED
NO ONCE AGAIN NOT AT THESE LOWER FLOORS
OF COURSE REMEMBERING THAT THE IMPACT WAS WAY ABOVE THAT AT MY LEVEL THERE WAS VIRTUALLY NO SMOKE EVERYTHING WAS CLEAR THERE WASNT PROBLEM WITH ANY OF THOSE SORT OF CONDITIONS AT ALL
THERE WAS LIGHTING REGULAR HOUSE LIGHTS WERE ON OR WERE THERE EMERGENCY LIGHTS
THERE WERE EMERGENCY LIGHTS THAT RECALL
BELIEVE THEY WERE THE EMERGENCY LIGHTS
WE WENT TO THE SECOND FLOOR IN THE FIRST
STAIRWELL WE ACTUALLY WENT IN THE HALLWAY WE WALKED DOWN TO WHERE THE ELEVATORS WERE ON THE SECOND FLOOR

KING
SECOND LEVEL LOOKED AROUND THEN WE WENT TO THE NEXT STAIRWELL CHECKED OUT CONDITIONS THEY WERE KIND OF SIMILAR WE WALKED AROUND SOME MORE AND WENT TO THE THIRD STAIRWELL AND STARTED GOING UP TO THE THIRD FLOOR
AS WE STARTED GOING UP TO THE THIRD FLOOR PEOPLE WERE COMING DOWN THE STAIRWELL THERE WAS
LARGE WOMAN COMING DOWN THE STAIRS AND IM BIG GUY
MYSELF WHEN WAS TRYING TO PASS HER SHE HAD BUMPED INTO ME AND CAUGHT ME OFF BALANCE ANYWAY ENDED UP
KIND OF FALLING BACKWARDS PUT MY FOOT DOWN AND
CAUGHT FOOT
POINT LIKE
BEEN
THIS
STEP ABOUT TWO OR THREE STEPS DOWN ON MY LEFT
POPPED SOMETHING IN MY KNEE ANYWAY AT THAT
TIME DID SOMETHING TO MY KNEECAP IT FELT
IN
POPPED LIGAMENT OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT HAVE
GOT LIKE PIERCING PAIN IN MY HEAD
MR MCCOURT WERE STOPPING THE INTERVIEW AT
TIME FOR SECOND PAUSE
MR MCCOURT THE TIME IS 1154 AND WERE CONTINUING THE INTERVIEW
ANYWAY HAD DONE SOMETHING TO MY LEFT KNEE AT THAT POINT AND ANKLE AFTER THAT WE STARTED TO GO
UP TO THE THIRD FLOOR AND IT BECAME VERY CLEAR TO ME
10

KING
THAT COULD NOT DO STAIRS VERY WELL MY LEFT FOOT BETWEEN THE KNEE AND THE ANKLE WAS KILLING ME THAT WOMAN LITERALLY PROBABLY SAVED MY LIFE AS THINGS TURNED OUT
WE GOT UP TO THE THIRD FLOOR AND TURNED
AROUND TO MY AIDE BOBBY SAID BOBBY CANT GO UP THE STAIRS WHATEVER DID TO MY KNEE ITS DONE
THERES NO WAY CAN GO UPSTAIRS WERE GOING TO HAVE TO END UP HEADING BACK DOWN
SO WE START GOING BACK DOWN THE STAIRS
GET TO THE SECOND FLOOR LEVEL AGAIN AND THERES WOMAN THERE THATS HAVING LITTLE PROBLEM BREATHING HAVING
LITTLE DIFFICULTY AND STOPPED TO TALK TO HER FOR MINUTE
MY AIDE BOBBY BY THE WAY HAS LIKE 31 YEARS ON THE JOB HES BEEN WITH SAFETY BATTALION SINCE IT
WAS FORMED IN 1981 HES VERY CHECKED OUT
INDIVIDUAL BUT ANYWAY HE SAID CHIEF IM GOING TO LOOK IN THE HALLWAY HERE AT THE SECOND FLOOR LEVEL
AGAIN SAID OKAY BOBBY SAID IM JUST GOING TO HELP HER OUT FOR MINUTE
SO WAS TALKING TO HER FOR MINUTE SHE
LOOKED LIKE SHE WAS JUST HAVING DIFFICULTY BREATHING TALKED TO HER FOR MINUTE AND TOLD HER YOUVE
11

KING
JUST GOT LIKE ONE MORE FLOOR TO GO DOWN AND THERES EMS
PERSONNEL IN THE LOBBY AND THEYLL BE WAITING TO ASSIST YOU SAID GO OVER TO ONE OF THEM AND HAVE THEM
CHECK YOU OUT THEYVE GOT OXYGEN THEYLL TAKE BLOOD PRESSURE ET CETERA THERE WERE PEOPLE COMING DOWN
THE STAIRS AND HAD ASKED ONE MAN THAT WAS COMING DOWN
THE STAIRS SAID IF YOUD JUST ASSIST HER GETTING DOWN THE STAIRS AND HE DID THAT PROBABLY TOOK ONE
OR TWO MINUTES
AT THAT POINT WENT INTO THE HALLWAY WHERE
MY AIDE HAD JUST GONE MINUTE OR TWO EARLIER AND
OPENED UP THE DOOR AND LOOKED IN THERE DIDNT SEE
HIM WALKED DOWN THAT HALLWAY VERY LONG HALLWAY THERES NO SMOKE OR ANYTHING ITS COMPLETELY CLEAR
IM LOOKING FOR HIM AND IM CALLING OUT HIS NAME AND DONT HEAR FROM HIM THE HANDIE TALKIE IS KIND OF
OVERWHELMING TO CALL HIM ON THE HANDIE TALKIE IM STILL ON THE COMMAND CHANNEL HES ON THE TACTICAL CHANNEL BUT IM NOT THE LEAST BIT CONCERNED WERE WAY WAY WAY BELOW THE FIRE ITS NOT EVEN
PROBLEM DONT SEE HIM
SO IM KIND OF LIKE YOU KNOW DONT KNOW
WHERE THE HECK HE WENT DID MISS HIM DID HE GO UPSTAIRS LITERALLY SAID ID BETTER GO UP MAYBE HE
12

KING
WENT UP TO THE THIRD FLOOR AGAIN WENT HACK UPSTAIRS WHICH WAS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT FOR ME TO DO
BECAUSE OF YOUR INJURY BECAUSE OF MY INJURY
WENT BACK UP TO THE THIRD FLOOR AND POKED MY HEAD IN THAT HALLWAY DONT SEE HIM AT ALL
SAID TO MYSELF WELL KNOW HES NOT GOING TO GO UPSTAIRS WITHOUT ME HE MUST HAVE GONE DOWNSTAIRS
IM GOING TO CHECK THE SECOND FLOOR
WENT BACK DOWN TO THE SECOND FLOOR
POKED MY HEAD IN AGAIN DONT SEE HIM CONTINUED DOWN TO THE LOBBY COMMAND POST AND EXPECTED THAT HE MIGHT WELL BE DOWN THERE BY THE TIME GOT DOWN THERE BUT HE OFTEN WOULD TAKE OFF ON HIS OWN FOR LITTLE BIT AND KIND OF LOOK AROUND AND ITS BASICALLY WHAT WE
DO HES VERY CHECKED OUT INDIVIDUAL AT AN AVERAGE FIRE AT CERTAIN TIMES LIKE OUTSIDE THE BUILDING
NORMALLY WE WOULD SPLIT UP
HE WOULD SURVEY THE AREA
YES HE MIGHT GO AROUND TO THE REAR AND ET CETERA IN THE BUILDING WE TEND TO STICK
SURVEY
TOGETHER BUT THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT KIND OF
BUILDING YOU KNOW EVERYTHING THATS GOING ON IN OTHER WORDS YOURE NOT IN ANY IMMEDIATE DANGER AT
13

KING
ALL WERE WAY BELOW THE FIRE
ANYWAY REPORT BACK IN SEE PETE HAYDEN
AT THE COMMAND POST AND SAID PETE LISTEN KNEE DID SOMETHING TO MY KNEE CANT EVEN
WALK AND HE SAYS OKAY STEVE THEY WERE BY THE COMMAND CENTER HE SAID JUST STAY BY THE COMMAND
BOARD WITH ME SAID OKAY THERE WAS BATTALION CHIEF THERE FROM THE 1ST BATTALION THINK PFEIFER
PFEIFER
YES HE WAS THERE AND THERE WERE SEVERAL
OTHERS THERE WERE PROBABLY SIX SEVEN EIGHT INDIVIDUALS THERE DONT KNOW THEM ALL SAW
COUPLE OF EMS PERSONNEL CHIEF GABRIEL WHO IS AN EMS CHIEF SPOKE WITH HIM FOR SECOND HAD SEEN
FATHER JUDGE PRETTY EARLY ON
AGAIN SO MANY EVENTS ARE JUST CONFUSING IN THAT DONT REMEMBER THE TIME FRAME THINK MIGHT
HAVE SEEN FATHER JUDGE IN THE LOBBY BEFORE LEFT TO GO UPSTAIRS WITH CRAWFORD REMEMBER AT ONE POINT
FIREMAN CAME IN TO THE COMMAND POST AND HE SAID FATHER JUDGE IS DEAD AND SAID WHAT ARE YOU
TALKING ABOUT WAS JUST TALKING WITH HIM MEANING FIVE TEN MINUTES AGO OR WHATEVER AND HE SAID HES
DEAD CHIEF
MY
14

KING
WAS THIS BEFORE THE COLLAPSE
BEFORE THE COLLAPSE DEFINITELY BEFORE THE COLLAPSE ABSOLUTELY AND COULDNT BELIEVE THAT
WAS JUST LIKE OH MY GOD CANT BELIEVE THIS IS HAPPENING
WHEN YOU SAW HIM HOW WAS HE WAS HE ALL RIGHT DID YOU TALK TO HIM AT ALL
HE WAS FINE YES WE TALKED FOR
MINUTE HE KNOWS ME KNOW HIM SAID HELLO
FATHER AND HE SAID HELLO CHIEF GOD BLESS YOU OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT IT WAS VERY QUICK
CONVERSATION
WHEN CAME BACK DOWN KNOW AT ONE POINT WAS TALKING TO RAY DOWNEY RAY AND KNOW EACH OTHER
FOR MANY MANY YEARS WE LIVE COUPLE OF BLOCKS AWAY FROM EACH OTHER OUR KIDS GREW UP TOGETHER AND
EVERYTHING SAW RAY AT THE SAME TIME WE TALKED IN THE LOBBY THERE BELIEVE THAT WAS AFTER CAME BACK DOWN BUT WE TALKED IN THE LOBBY FOR MINUTE OR TWO
AND HE WAS RUNNING AROUND DOING HIS THING AND THAT WAS THE LAST HAD SEEN OF HIM
ANYWAY IM AROUND AT THE COMMAND POST THERE WAS TALKING WITH CHIEF PFEIFER LITTLE BIT AND BASICALLY JUST KIND OF TAKING IN EVERYTHING THAT
QUICK
15

KING
WAS GOING ON YOU KNOW LISTENING TO THE TRANSMISSIONS TALKED WITH CHIEF GABRIEL FOR
LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT HIS MEN WERE DOING HIS PERSONNEL DIDNT SEE FIREMAN CRAWFORD WAS
STARTING NOW TO WONDER WHERE THE HECK HE WENT NOW IM GETTING LITTLE CONCERNED
THIS IS YOUR AIDE
MY AIDE WHO AGAIN HAS BEEN MISSING SINCE THAT DAY BUT NOW HAD LITTLE CONCERN IM NOT WORRIED ABOUT HIM BEING IN DANGER IN OTHER WORDS
WE RE SO FAR FROM THE DANGER AREA BUT NOW IM JUST LIKE JEEZ ITS BEEN LITTLE WHILE IM SURPRISED HE HASNT COME BACK DOWN HERE IT WOULDNT BE LIKE HIM TO
JUST IN OTHER WORDS BE GONE UPSTAIRS BY HIMSELF SO IM KIND OF WONDERING WHEREVER HE WENT FIGURED AT SOME POINT HES GOING TO FIGURE OUT MUST BE AT THE COMMAND CENTER HE KNEW COULDNT DO STAIRS YOU KNOW WHAT IM SAYING
MUCH IM AT THE COMMAND CENTER AND HAD THE SCOTT MASK ON MY BACK ALL THIS TIME BUT
OF COURSE WASNT USING THE FACE PIECE BECAUSE THERE
WASNT ANY DIFFICULTY BREATHING AT ONE POINT TOOK THE SCOTT PACK OFF AND PUT IT UNDER THE DESK THERE AT THE COMMAND CENTER BECAUSE MY KNEE HURTS AND IM
ANYWAY PRETTY
16

KING
LUGGING THIS EXTRA WEIGHT AROUND FOR NOTHING SO PUT IT UNDER THE DESK
NOTHING MUCH ELSE CAN REMEMBER UNTIL AT SOME POINT HEAR TRANSMISSION ABOUT THE BUILDING COMING DOWN DONT EVEN REMEMBER THE EXACT WORDS BUT SOMETHING THE BUILDING IS COLLAPSING OR THE BUILDING IS COMING DOWN HEAR THAT NOW THINK ITS MY TOWER
DID YOU KNOW THERE WAS ANY INCIDENT GOING ON WITH THE OTHER TOWER AT THAT POINT
OH LET ME TELL YOU GUESS LEFT THAT ALL OUT YES AT SOME POINT WHEN IM AT THE COMMAND POST HEAR SOMETHING ABOUT AN AIRCRAFT HAS STRUCK THE OTHER
TOWER THE SOUTH TOWER IM AT THE COMMAND POST AT THAT POINT
YOURE IN THE NORTH TOWER
IM IN THE NORTH TOWER HEAR SOMETHING
ABOUT AN AIRCRAFT JUST STRUCK THE SOUTH TOWER AND DONT KNOW THAT PLANE HAS HIT THE NORTH TOWER
YOU STILL DONT KNOW THAT
STILL DONT KNOW THAT DONT BELIEVE
KNOW THAT IF
THOUGHT EVEN TOWER MEAN
DO THEN WAS IN MORE SHOCK THAN THOUGH HEARD PLANE STRUCK THE SOUTH
DIDNT HEAR ANYTHING LIKE AN
17

KING
AIRLINER IT WAS JUST HEARD PLANE STRUCK THE SOUTH
TOWER REMEMBER SAYING HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE IN MY MIND IM THINKING IT MIGHT BE NEWS HELICOPTER IM
THINKING THAT YOU KNOW WHEN WE HAVE AN EVENT LIKE
THIS IN THE CITY HOW YOU GET ONE OF THOSE HELICOPTERS
IN THERE VERY QUICKLY SO LITERALLY ALTHOUGH THEY
SAID AN AIRCRAFT IM THINKING THAT MAYBE ITS SOME
IDIOT IN NEWS HELICOPTER CIRCLING YOU KNOW FILMING THIS EVENT IN THE NORTH TOWER AND SOMEHOW HE PLOWED
INTO THE SOUTH TOWER OR ELSE IM SAYING TO MYSELF IF IT ISNT THAT MAYBE ITS IM PILOT BY THE
WAY IM COMMERCIAL PILOT FOR 30 YEARS FLEW IN THE NAVY
FIXED WING PILOT
FIXED WING IVE FLOWN SOME HELICOPTERS
BUT FIXED WING AND FLEW IN THE NAVY
BUT ANYWAY THE OTHER THING IM THINKING IS WHAT THEY CALL VFR CORRIDOR THAT RUNS UP THE HUDSON
RIVER RIGHT ALONGSIDE THE TWIN TOWERS IT GOES UP THE HUDSON RIVER VFR VISUAL FLIGHT RULE PRIVATE PLANE
TYPE THEY CAN GO UP AND DOWN THAT AS LONG AS THEY STAY UNDER 1100 FEET AGL ABOVE GROUND LEVEL SO IM SAYING
TO MYSELF THE OTHER POSSIBILITY IS SOME LIGHT PLANE BUT IM NEVER THINKING AIRLINER DONT HEAR THAT AT
18

KING
ALL SO IM SAYING TO MYSELF WEVE GOT MAJOR THING GOING ON IN THE NORTH TOWER SOMETHING STRUCK THE SOUTH
TOWER AND DONT ENVISION THIS AS TERRIFIC EVENT GOING ON IN THE SOUTH TOWER ANYWAY THAT EARLY THATS NOT WHAT UNDERSTAND BUT GETTING BACK TO WHERE WAS THEN THATS WHAT HAD HEARD
HAVE TO SAY ONE OTHER THING IF IM NOT MISTAKEN AT SOME POINT AFTER THAT BELIEVE HEARD
AND IM NOT CLEAR AS TO HOW HEARD IT BUT IT WAS AT THE COMMAND CENTER HEARD SOMETHING ABOUT THERE REPORT OF THIRD AIRCRAFT INBOUND SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT AND DONT EVEN KNOW WHO SAID IT
YOU DONT KNOW WHO SAID IT
DONT KNOW WHO SAID IT IM NOT EVEN CLEAR
IF IT WAS ON HANDIE TALKIE TRANSMISSION OR IF IT WAS
SAID AT THE COMMAND CENTER BUT HEARD SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT
WHEN HEARD THAT THEN ALL OF SUDDEN EVERYTHING KIND OF CLICKED AND SAID LITERALLY HOLY
SOMETHING VERBALLY
SHIT WE MUST BE UNDER WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT
SOMETHING
SOME SORT OF AN ATTACK THAT IT REGISTERED WHOEVER SAID AIRCRAFT INBOUND
ABOUT THIRD
THAT WAS AFTER THE SECOND AIRCRAFT
OH YES IT WAS DEFINITELY AFTER THE SECOND
19

KING
BECAUSE THEY SAID SOMETHING ABOUT THIRD AND THEN SAID WHOA YOU KNOW WEVE BEEN ATTACKED OR
SOMETHING SOMETHING MAJOR IS GOING ON THATS THE FIRST TIME AT LEAST IN MY OWN MIND THAT REMEMBER IT
REALLY
CLICKED
AT SOME TIME AFTER THAT AND HAVE NO
CONCEPT OF TIME HERE REMEMBER HEARING SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT THAT THE TOWER IS COLLAPSING OR COMING
DOWN HEAR THAT AND HEAR RUMBLE REMEMBER TERRIFIC RUMBLING GETTING LOUDER NOW BELIEVE
AND DID FOR TWO DAYS AFTER THIS THINK THAT MY TOWER THAT IM IN THE NORTH TOWER IS COLLAPSING THIS IS THE SOUTH TOWER COLLAPSING
YOU HAD TO BE THERE TO ENVISION THIS THE NOISE BECOMES DEAFENING CAN FEEL THE GROUND
SHAKING REMEMBER SAYING TO MYSELF THAT THERE LIKE BIG ARCHWAY BEHIND ME MORE OR LESS TO THE BACK
OF ME BUT WHEN WAS TALKING WITH CHIEF GABRIEL WAS PRETTY MUCH STANDING UNDER IT AND YOU KNOW HOW YOU
ALWAYS HEAR THIS GUESS WE RE KIND OF TRAINED YOU KNOW LOOK FOR AN ARCH OR SOMETHING IF THERES
COLLAPSE REMEMBER KIND OF INSTINCTIVELY RUNNING BACK THERE AS MATTER OF FACT THINK HOLLERED
OUT TO THE GUYS THAT WERE ALONG WITH ME COME BACK
20

HERE UNDER THE ARCH
KING
ITS AMAZING WHAT HAPPENS IN FEW SECONDS BUT REMEMBER GOING UNDER THE ARCH REMEMBER JUST HEARING THE NOISE YOU KNOW ITS COMING DOWN MEAN
KNOW MY TOWER WAS COMING DOWN AND THAT THIS IS IT
ITS ALL OVER ABSOLUTELY GOT TO BE REMEMBER BEING
UNDER THE ARCH AND SAYING TO MYSELF THIS IS JOKE IM GOING UNDER AN ARCH IVE GOT 110 STORIES COMING
DOWN ITS OVER STEVE LITERALLY REMEMBER THAT AND REMEMBER HAVING BEEN IN ONE OF THESE SUBBASEMENTS
IN 93 WITH THE OTHER EVENT AND IN COUPLE OF
SECONDS JUST REMEMBER SAYING IM GOING TO GET DRIVEN DOWN TO THE EIGHTH SUBBASEMENT OF THIS BUILDING AND THATS IT THEYLL BE PAVING THE STREET IM DEAD
THERES NOT CHANCE IN THE WORLD IM LIVING THROUGH THIS AND IT COMES DOWN
THE NEXT THING KNOW IM GETTING BURIED IN DEBRIS THE WINDOWS ARE SHATTERING AGAIN THINK
ITS MY TOWER IM NOT EXACTLY CLEAR HOW ITS COMING
DOWN BUT ITS COMING DOWN YOU CANT MISS THE NOISE
YOU CAN FEEL THE AIR PRESSURE BUILDING UP MEAN
LITERALLY
IT BLOWS THE WINDOWS IN THE WINDOWS WERE BLOWN IN
GUESS EVERYTHING CAME IN BECAUSE THE NEXT
21

KING
THING WE ARE COVERED IN WHITE SO YOU CANNOT BREATHE AT ALL REMEMBER HAD YOU KNOW THE HOODS WE
WEAR HAD TAKEN MY SCOTT MASK OFF IF YOU REMEMBER NOW THERES SO MUCH OF THAT POWDER MIXED IN WITH
SMOKE GUESS BUT THE SECOND YOU TOOK MOUTHFUL OR TWO OF IT IN IT DRIED YOUR MOUTH AND THROAT AND YOU
WERE GAGGING IT WAS LIKE HOLY SHIT REMEMBER NOW PULLED THE HOOD OVER MY FACE TO FILTER OUT SOME OF
THAT NOTICED GUYS NEXT TO ME WERE ALIVE AND IM LIKE IM IN SHOCK
DO YOU REMEMBER WHO WAS NEXT TO YOU YES ILL TELL YOU IN SECOND
JUST REMEMBER KIND OF LIKE CANNOT BELIEVE WERE ALIVE THERES NO WAY WE COULD HAVE SURVIVED
THIS BUT IM ALIVE NOW KNOW PETE HAYDEN IS WITH ME JOE CALLEN CHIEF PFEIFER AND THERE WERE OTHERS MAYBE COUPLE OF THE AIDES IM NOT SURE OF WHO ALL THE PEOPLE WERE THERE WAS AN EMS FELLOW THERE
WOULD SAY THERE WERE MAYBE SIX OR SEVEN OR EIGHT OF US
WE CANT EVEN SEE EACH OTHER WERE BLIND
WERE KIND OF GAGGING KNOW EVERYBODY IS ABSOLUTELY IN SHOCK MEAN EVERYBODY WAS KIND OF QUIET FOR WHILE WERE SITTING THERE REMEMBER NOW SAYING
22

KING
CANT BELIEVE THAT IVE LIVED THROUGH THIS BUT NOW CANT BREATHE MEAN ITS REALLY DIFFICULT
BREATHING NOW IM LIKE OH MY GOD WERE GOING TO GET ASPHYXIATED IN HERE WERE GOING TO DIE
REMEMBER SAYING TO MYSELF LITERALLY THAT WOULD RATHER HAVE BEEN CRUSHED TO DEATH INSTANTLY THAN THE
WORST NIGHTMARE MEAN IVE DONE LOT OF INVESTIGATIONS AND THE ONES THAT RUN OUT OF AIR YOU JUST KNOW THAT YOU KNOW
HAVE THIS VISION NOW THAT IF DONT GET OUT OF HERE PRETTY SOON MAY WELL
ASPHYXIATE IN HERE REMEMBER THERE WAS PORT AUTHORITY COP THAT WAS WITH US SOMEWHERE IN THE AREA NOW IM SAYING TO MYSELF WHICH WAY IS EVEN OUT KNOW WHERE CAME IN AND DONT WANT TO GO BACK OUT THAT WAY KNOW ITS DISTANCE TO GET IN THOUGHT
THERE WAS WAY TO GET OUT BEHIND ME MORE OR LESS REMEMBERED THAT COP AND SAID WELL HE WORKS IN THE BUILDING SAID IS THE COP STILL AROUND HERE AND
ANYWAY
IM OVER HERE YEAH IM HERE SAID WHICH WAY TO OUT OF HERE WEVE GOT TO GET OUT OF
HERE AND HE SAID THINK ITS BACK HERE CANT REALLY SEE THIS GUY BUT HES BEHIND ME AND SAID THATS WHERE THOUGHT IT WAS THAT DIRECTION
HE SAYS
23

KING
WAS IT STILL SMOKY AND CLOUDY IN THAT AREA SO YOU COULDNT SEE
YES IT WAS
JUST COUPLE OF MINUTES AFTER THE COLLAPSE
WELL IT WASNT VERY LONG YES WITHIN THE
FIRST COUPLE OF MINUTES BECAUSE WE DIDNT HANG AROUND
THERE VERY LONG
ANYWAY GOT PETE HAYDEN AND JOE CALLEN AND
WERE HOLDING ONTO EACH OTHERS COATS MORE OR LESS WE CANT SEE ANYTHING AT THAT POINT AND THINK SAID
SOMETHING SAID WEVE GOT TO GET OUT OF HERE BEFORE WE SUFFOCATE SO WE ALL STARTED WORKING OUR WAY IN THAT DIRECTION AND REMEMBER WE CAME TO THE ESCALATORS
WHAT GETS SORT OF INTERESTING AND CONFUSING HERE IS THERES VIDEOTAPE THAT WAS TAKEN BY GUESS
DEPARTMENT PHOTOGRAPHER THAT WAS IN THAT LOBBY WITH US AND HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEE SOME OF THAT
RECENTLY GUESS LAST WEEK AND IM IN THAT VIDEOTAPE QUITE BIT SOME OF THE EVENTS REMEMBER ARE
LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN WHEN IM WATCHING MYSELF
TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA WHEN SAY THAT THIS HAS
BEEN VERY STRESSFUL OR CONFUSING EVENT FOR ME LITERALLY IF YOU WOULD HAVE ASKED ME TO DO THIS
24

KING
INTERVIEW WITHOUT SEEING THAT TAPE WOULD HAVE SAID THAT REMEMBER THE ESCALATORS DISTINCTLY AND THAT THOUGHT WALKED AND CONTINUED PAST THEM AND GOT OUT HOWEVER ON THE VIDEOTAPE WE GO UP THE ESCALATOR AND GO UP THE ESCALATOR WITH THEM THEN AT SOME POINT WHEN WE GET UP THERE THINK WE SEPARATED AND THAT CAMERAMAN STAYED WITH CHIEF PFEIFER AND THEY WENT DIFFERENT DIRECTION
ANYWAY WE WORK OUR WAY OUT OF THE BUILDING REMEMBER GETTING OUTSIDE THE BUILDING THERE WERE
DEFINITELY FEW GUYS WITH ME JOE CALLEN PETE HAYDEN AND OTHERS THERE WAS SOMEBODY THAT WAS UNCONSCIOUS THAT COUPLE OF THE GUYS WERE CARRYING WITH US
DONT KNOW WHO THAT PERSON WAS HE WASNT IN BUNKER GEAR OR FIRE GEAR DONT KNOW THAT HE WAS
FIREFIGHTER
AT ALL
BUT WE GET OUTSIDE THE BUILDING NOW WE RE HUGGING THE BUILDING AND STILL DONT UNDERSTAND THAT MY BUILDING IS STANDING WE WERE OUT IN THE STREET
WHERE DID YOU COME OUT
DONT KNOW YOU KNOW WHAT DONT KNOW
BUT BELIEVE IT WAS BY VESEY STREET FOR SOME REASON SEEM TO THINK DONT SEE STREETS ON HERE BUT
BELIEVE IT WAS SOMEWHERE ALONG HERE
25

KING
VESEY
ENDED UP COMING UP HERE SOMEHOW BUT IM
NOT EVEN SURE OF THAT
TOWARDS WEST BROADWAY RIGHT
DONT KNOW EVERYTHING WAS WHITE REMEMBER TRYING TO FIND
STREET SIGN BUT FIRST WE HUGGED THE BUILDING THERE WAS SO MUCH DEBRIS COMING DOWN AND STILL JUMPERS AND
STUFF AND CAN ONLY SPEAK FOR MYSELF ALTHOUGH ID SAY WE STAYED TOGETHER IN SINGLE LINE HUGGED THE
BUILDING AND WALKED ALONG THE BUILDING FOR QUITE
RIGHT EXACTLY YES
WE WERE ALMOST ILL SPEAK AFRAID TO LEAVE THE BUILDING YOUR STRUCK BY SOMETHING WERE GOOD AND DO ANYTHING WAS HAVING DIFFICULTY WAS NO WAY WAS RUNNING
WAYS
FOR MYSELF
CHANCES OF GETTING
COULD NOT RUN OR WALKING THERE
WE STAYED TOGETHER FOR QUITE AWHILE BUT AT SOME POINT AND DONT REMEMBER ANY OF THE
PARTICULARS IM BY MYSELF AGAIN IM NOT CLEAR WITH LOT OF THIS ENDED UP WALKING UP BELIEVE
WALKED ALONG VESEY AND WENT TO WEST BROADWAY AND WAS
WALKING NORTH UP WEST BROADWAY AT THIS POINT IM BY MYSELF DO NOT KNOW WHERE EVERYBODY ELSE WENT DONT KNOW HOW WE GOT SEPARATED OR WHAT LED TO IT
26

KING
WEEK OR TWO LATER SAW JOE CALLAN AS MATTER OF FACT IT WAS AT CHIEF GANCIS FUNERAL
SAW CHIEF CALLEN AND SAID TO HIM JOE DONT REMEMBER
HOW WE GOT SEPARATED THAT DAY SAID GUESS
LEFT YOU GUYS IM SORRY DONT REMEMBER WHAT WAS
GOING ON AND HE SAID TO ME STEVE YOU DIDNT LEAVE
US
RAN HE SAID DID THE 60 YARD SPRINT FOR TWO
HE SAID YOU COULDNT WALK ALMOST HE SAID
BLOCKS HE SAID LEFT YOU HE SAID AT THAT POINT IT WAS EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF
ANYWAY THE NEXT THING KNOW IM WALKING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET EVERYTHING WAS WHITE IM SURE YOU YE SEEN PICTURES OF IT IM AT LEAST SOMEWHAT IN SHOCK DONT THINK HAD VERY CLEAR FOCUS OF WHAT WAS DOING REMEMBER SAYING TO MYSELF IVE GOT TO GET AWAY FROM THE BUILDING CANT BELIEVE IM NOT GETTING HIT GETTING AWAY FROM THE BUILDING THERE WAS
LOT OF STUFF COMING DOWN KEEP IN MIND THAT
ABSOLUTELY COLLAPSED
BELIEVED THAT WAS IN THE TOWER THAT
IM WALKING NORTH IM LOOKING TO SEE ANY SORT OF FIRE TRUCK CHIEFS CAR FIGURED OTHER
UNITS HAVE GOT TO BE COMING IN IM GOING TO SEE ONE SOONER OR LATER AS SOON AS SEE ONE IM GOING TO
27

KING
KIND OF FLAG THEM DOWN AND SAY YOU KNOW ALL RIGHT WHATS GOING ON WHERES THE COMMAND CENTER TRY AND GET REFORMED IM THINKING ABOUT DID EVERYBODY GET
OUT HAVENT SEEN MY AIDE NOW IM REALLY WORRIED BECAUSE IN MY MIND HE WAS IN THE BUILDING THAT
COLLAPSED AND KNOW HES STILL IN THERE
WALK ABOUT ILL SAY TWO BLOCKS NORTH IM
GUESSING DONT SEE ANY FIRE UNITS AT ALL SO NOW IM STARTING TO SAY WELL WHEREVER THEYRE FORMING
THEYVE GOT TO BE FORMING ANOTHER STAGING AREA OR COMMAND POST OUTSIDE THE BUILDING SAID IM GOING IN
THE WRONG DIRECTION SO STOPPED AND TURNED AROUND AND SAID ID BETTER START HEADING BACK DOWN THERE AGAIN SO LITERALLY TURNED AROUND AND STARTED GOING BACK TOWARDS THE TRADE CENTER
GET ABOUT BLOCK AWAY ILL SAY ABOUT ONE BLOCK AWAY SO MAYBE WALKED BACK ABOUT ONE BLOCK
NOW ALL OF SUDDEN HEAR PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO RUN AND SCREAM AND SAID THE OTHER TOWER IS
DOWN LOOKED UP AND THE TOWER IS COMING DOWN AND IVE GOT TO GET BURIED IN THE DEBRIS MEAN ITS
LIKE ITS GOT TO HIT ME NOW IM BACK TO THE SAME THING IN COUPLE OF SECONDS IM SAYING HOLY SHIT
GOT OUT OF THE FIRST ONE AND NOW IM GOING TO GET
COMING
28

GUESS
UP STREET
KING
KILLED BY THE SECOND ONE IM LOOKING TO SEE WHERE AM
GOING TO GO NOW
THERES SUBWAY STATION RIGHT ALONGSIDE ME
DONT KNOW WHAT STATION DIVE DOWN THE SUBWAY STAIRS GET DOWN TO THE BOTTOM OF THAT FIRST SET OF STAIRS TURN THE CORNER SIT UP AGAINST WALL ON THE FLOOR AND THE BUILDING COMES DOWN IT GOES DOWN THE STAIRS THOUGHT THE SIDEWALK WAS GOING TO COLLAPSE IM BURIED IN THAT SMOKE AGAIN IVE GOT TO PULL THE HOOD BACK OVER MY FACE IM GAGGING IM GOING THROUGH PRETTY MUCH THE SAME THINGS THAT HAPPENED TO ME AFTER THE FIRST TOWER CAME DOWN
WERE YOU ALONE WAS ANYBODY WITH YOU WAS BY MYSELF KIND OF SAT THERE
DONT EVEN HAVE ANY CLUE HOW LONG DO NOT KNOW HOW LONG FROM THIS POINT ON IT GETS KIND OF VAGUE
DO GET OUT OF THERE DONT REMEMBER COMING DONT REMEMBER HOW GOT OUT GET UP TO THE
AT SOME POINT WAS INTERVIEWED ON TV CAMERA NOT FOR VERY LONG HAVE NOT SEEN
KNOW
THIS INTERVIEW BUT EVERYBODY IN THE ENTIRE UNITED
STATES HAS IT WAS ON FOR TWO WEEKS STRAIGHT EVERY DAY IT WAS ON AMERICAS MOST WANTED BUT HAD
29
YOU

KING
PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES CALLING ME UP SIT ON LOT OF NATIONAL COMMITTEES THE NFPA AND
OTHER THINGS BUT THEYRE ALL CALLING ME UP STEVE SAW YOU ON TV AND DONT EVER REMEMBER SPEAKING TO ANYBODY ON CAMERA AT ALL
REMEMBER NOW WHEN CAME OUT OF THERE STARTED WALKING AWAY FROM THE TRADE CENTER AGAIN
REMEMBER SEEING CIVILIAN IN THE STREET WHO SAID TO
ME ARE YOU OKAY SAID IM OKAY HE HAD CELL PHONE IN HIS HAND AND JUST REMEMBER TELLING HIM
WOULD YOU MIND CALLING MY WIFE AT THE HOUSE SHES PROBABLY NOT HOME DIDNT KNOW WHAT TIME IT WAS
SHE WORKS BUT COMES HOME FOR LUNCH SAID JUST
LEAVE MESSAGE IF YOU GET AN
TELL HER YOUR HUSBAND IS OKAY
TO CALL YOU AND HE SAID
FOR SOME REASON HE WAS FROM DETROIT JUST REMEMBER HE SAID PROMISE ILL CALL AND HE DID END UP CALLING
KNOW YOU DONT WANT TO GO MUCH AFTER THIS
THATS OKAY IM JUST CHECKING THE TAPE THATS ALL
ANYWAY KEPT WALKING AT SOME POINT
DOCTOR FROM ST VINCENTS HOSPITAL GUESS THERE WERE
ANSWERING MACHINE JUST SAW HIM HE TOLD ME
PROMISE REMEMBER
30

KING
AMBULANCE TEAMS DISPATCHED OUT TO THE STREET ET
CETERA BUT DOCTOR FROM ST VINCENTS IN BLUE GOWN COMES OVER TO ME AND HE SAYS ARE YOU OKAY AND
SAID YEAH IM FINE IM FINE IM WALKING IM JUST GOING TO LEAVE HIM IM JUST WALKING DOWN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET AND HE SAYS HEY WANT TO CHECK YOU OUT COME OVER HERE HE SAYS TAKE YOUR JACKET OFF WANT TO CHECK YOUR BLOOD PRESSURE
SAID IM OKAY HE SAID LET ME CHECK YOU OUT
ANYWAY HE CHECKED MY BLOOD PRESSURE AND IT WAS 100 OVER 90 REMEMBER HIM SAYING 100 OVER
90 IM SAYING 100 OVER 90 NEVER HEARD OF NUMBER LIKE THAT HE SAYS LET ME CHECK YOUR OTHER ARM AND HE DOES IT AND HE SAID 100 OVER 90 AND
HE SAID TO SOMEBODY THERE WAS AN AMBULANCE BY HIM IN FACT AND HE SAID GET THIS GUY TO THE HOSPITAL
THERES SOMETHING ELSE LEFT SOMETHING OUT AT SOME POINT WENT TO FIREHOUSE THINK
ENGINE ENGINE THE ONLY
WHEN IM WALKING THE STREET END UP AT
AND THERES GUYS THERE AND WALK IN AND WAS CHIEF AROUND GUESS WALK IN AND THERES
LOT OF GUYS THAT ARE COMING IN FROM HOME AND DIDNT
KNOW THE THINGS GOING ON AND THEYRE KIND OF LIKE CHIEF WHERE DO YOU NEED ME
31

IS
KING
WHERE IS ENGINE DO YOU KNOW WHERE THAT
THINK ITS ON VESEY STREET IM NOT SURE ANYWAY THERES FIREMEN AND THERES LOT OF ACTIVITY
AND THEYRE LIKE WELL THERES CHIEF HERE CHIEF WERE GOING TO GO DOWN THERE WHERE SHOULD WE GO WHAT SHOULD WE BE DOING SAID LISTEN WE CANT HAVE GUYS JUST RUNNING DOWN THERE SAID DO ME FAVOR THEN SAID GET CLIPBOARD GET SOME PAPER WANT TO KNOW EVERYBODY THATS HERE WANT TO KNOW THEIR NAME WHAT UNIT THEYRE ASSIGNED TO SAID LETS GET THAT DONE FIRST SO WE KNOW WHO WE YE GOT IF WERE GOING TO SEND TEAM DOWN THERE OR ANYTHING WANT TO KNOW JUST WHO IS GOING IN AND THEN WELL TRY AND DO IT SOMEWHAT ORGANIZED
AT ONE POINT REMEMBER CHIEF BLAICH BILLY BLAICH 1ST BATTALION COME RUNNING INTO QUARTERS HE
WAS LIKE IN PANIC KNOW BILLY FOR LONG TIME SAID BILLY WHATS GOING ON HE SAID MY SON IS
WORKING HE SAID HES IN THERE IVE GOT TO GET DOWN THERE AND HE QUICKLY GRABBED GEAR AND RAN OUT
HE CAME FROM HOME OR HE WAS SOMEWHERE ELSE ILL ASSUME HE CAME FROM HOME BUT DONT
KNOW THAT IT WAS SO QUICK HE WAS OBVIOUSLY
32

33
SAW HIM QUICKLY HE GRABBED SOMETHING AND RAN
ALSO REMEMBER AND IM NOT SURE OF THE
KING
EXTREMELY CONCERNED HE KNEW HIS SON WAS RESPONDING AND WAS IN THERE AND HE ENDED UP BEING OKAY BUT
ANYWAY OUT
SEQUENCE BUT WHEN WAS WALKING DOWN THAT STREET
THERE WAS CAPTAIN THAT CAME UP TO ME IM PRETTY SURE
HE WAS FROM 252 ENGINE IF RECALL AND HE WAS GOING DOWN TO THE TRADE CENTER AGAIN HE WASNT ON DUTY DONT KNOW HOW HE WAS THERE WHETHER HE WAS RECOVERING OR NOT BUT IM ALMOST POSITIVE HE WAS FROM 252
ENGINE HE HAD ALL HIS GEAR WITH HIM BUT HE DIDNT HAVE HANDIE TALKIE AND HE SAW ME AND HE SAID
CHIEF HE SAYS COULD USE YOUR HANDIE TALKIE
DONT HAVE HANDIE TALKIE IM GOING TO REPORT IN
HE COULD SEE THAT WAS JUST COVERED IN WHITE GUESS
MUST HAVE LOOKED LIKE DEATH TO ANYBODY THAT SAW ME THINK HE SAW CLEARLY THAT WASNT GOING BACK DOWN
THERE ANYWAY SAID TO MYSELF IF HE CAN HELP OUT GAVE HIM THE RADIO GAVE HIM MY HANDIE TALKIE
SAID HERE TAKE THE DAMN THING SAID 252 RIGHT BECAUSE WANTED TO REMEMBER WHO HAD GIVEN
IT TO ANYWAY SO THAT WAS THAT HANDED HIM MY HANDIE TALKIE

FIREHOUSE UNTIL IM VERY LITTLE WHILE AND IS WHERE
AS
KING
THINK THATS HEFORE
GOT TO THAT
MATTER OF FACT THIS INTERVIEW
TIME WAS AT THINK AT THAT POINT
TOTALLY FORGOT THIS THINGS STILL COME BACK
THAT FIREHOUSE FOR SOMEWHERE ALONG THERE
DOING AT
SAW THAT DOCTOR FROM ST VINCENTS
THE NEXT THING KNOW THEY TRANSPORT ME TO NORTH SHORE UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL OUT IN FOREST HILLS QUEENS THOUGHT ID BE GOING TWO BLOCKS AWAY OR SOMETHING BUT FOR WHATEVER REASON THEY BROUGHT ME OUT THERE THINK THEY THOUGHT THERE WERE GOING TO BE AN AWFUL LOT OF VERY SERIOUS INJURIES OR WHATEVER
DONT KNOW WHAT THEIR PROBLEMS WERE BUT GOT IN AN AMBULANCE DIDNT KNOW WHERE WAS GOING AT ALL
JUST REMEMBER THE RIDE WAS LIKE WHERE THE HELL ARE THEY TAKING ME ENDED UP AT FOREST HILLS
WAS THERE ANYBODY WITH YOU IN THE AMBULANCE
OR YOU WERE THE ONLY PATIENT
WAS THE ONLY PATIENT IN THE AMBULANCE
OKAY
GOT TO NORTH SHORE THEY WERE TREATING ME
FOR SYMPTOMS OF POSSIBLE HEART ATTACK GUESS WITH THAT BLOOD PRESSURE THEY DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING
ON HAD DIFFICULTY BREATHING HAD INGESTED AN
34

KING
AWFUL LOT OF THAT SMOKEDEBRIS DOWN THERE
THATS BASICALLY IT WAS IN THE HOSPITAL THINK FIVE OR SIX HOURS THEY DID CARDIOGRAMS AND
BLOOD TESTS AND CHEST RAY KNEE RAY ANKLE RAY THINGS LIKE THAT AND LATER THAT DAY OR THAT EVENING
THEY RELEASED ME THEY TOOK ME ONE OF THE AMBULANCE GUYS THAT WAS OFF DUTY BROUGHT ME BACK TO THE BROOKLYN NAVY YARD MY HEADQUARTERS ON HIS OWN WHICH WAS NICE OF HIM SO THAT COULD GET MY CAR AND GOT IN MY CAR AND DROVE OUT TO DEER PARK
KNEW RAY DOWNEY EVEN GO TO MY HOUSE FIRST
DOWNEYS THE FAMILY HOUSE SAW RAYS WIFE AND THE KIDS
WAS MISSING AND DIDNT
WENT STRAIGHT TO RAY
AND WENT OVER THERE AND WERE ALL OVER AND TALKED
FOR LITTLE BIT AND TOLD THEM THAT HAD BEEN WITH RAY EARLIER AND THAT KNEW HE WAS MISSING AND KNOW
THEY KNEW AND THEY WERE OBVIOUSLY EXTREMELY DISTRAUGHT REMEMBER HIS WIFE SAYING YOU KNOW
RAYS ALIVE STEVE RIGHT SHE SAID YOU KNOW HOW SMART RAY IS KNOW HES JUST WAITING FOR US TO COME
GET HIM SAID ROE CERTAINLY HOPE SO SAID KNOW IF ANYBODY COULD TAKE CARE OF THEMSELF IT WOULD CERTAINLY BE RAY AND IT WAS JUST TERRIBLE
THEN FROM THERE WENT HOME AND THAT WAS IT
35

CRAWFORD
KING
ANY FURTHER NEWS ON YOUR AIDE BOBBY
NO TO DATE HES STILL MISSING
ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU CAN THINK OF ANYTHING YOU WANT TO RETRACT AND GO OVER
NO KNOW THERES THINGS MISSING AND ITS
FRUSTRATING TO ME PARTICULARLY HAVING DONE LOT OF INTERVIEWS YOU KNOW ITS SO FRUSTRATING WHEN ITS NOT CLEAR AND ITS THE FIRST TIME IVE EVER SAT ON THIS
SIDE OF THE FENCE
IVE BEEN TELLING THIS STORY ABOUT 15 OR 20 TIMES AND IT SEEMS LIKE EACH TIME TELL IT JUST LITTLE BITS STILL COME BACK LIKE THAT CAPTAIN JUST TALKED
ABOUT FROM 252 THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT IT EVER HIT ME THAT GAVE THAT HANDIE TALKIE TO HIM AND
HAVENT SAID THAT YET
TODAY SO ITS BITS AND PIECES
HAD JUST KIND OF FORGOT ABOUT
ITS STILL COMING
IT UNFORTUNATELY
ITS FRUSTRATING TO ME
ALL RIGHT IF AT ANY POINT YOU REMEMBER
ANYTHING ELSE AND YOU WANT TO GET BACK TO US WE COULD
IT UNTIL BACK IN IS KIND
DIFFERENT AND LOT OF
OF CHRONOLOGICALLY DIFFICULT
OF SEQUENCE AND TIME REFERENCES ARE DIFFICULT SO
FOR ME MAYBE OUT
36

KING
ALWAYS ADD TO YOUR INTERVIEW WELL MAKE AN ADDENDUM ONTO IT
DONT KNOW IF ILL GET INVOLVED IN DOING SOME OF THESE INTERVIEWS MYSELF BUT YOU FIND OUT MORE OF COURSE AS YOU TALK TO OTHER PEOPLE AND HAVENT TALKED TO AN AWFUL LOT OF THE OTHER PEOPLE THAT WERE THERE IVE BEEN ALMOST AVOIDING IT IN SENSE BUT
WHEN YOU DO PEOPLE REMIND YOU OF THINGS THAT YOU SAY OH THATS RIGHT DO REMEMBER THAT MYSELF SO OBVIOUSLY THATS PART OF IT KNOW WHEN VIEWED THAT VIDEOTAPE THAT MENTIONED TO YOU LAST WEEK
ONLY SAW PARTS OF IT BUT IT CERTAINLY LOOKED LOT DIFFERENT SOME OF IT IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU
REMEMBER ITS AMAZING IT REALLY IS
MR MCCOURT OKAY THE TIME IS 1227 AS
MATTER OF FACT WE CONDUCTED THIS INTERVIEW AT METROTECH ON THE 4TH FLOOR THANK YOU VERY MUCH
CHIEF
CHIEF KING THANK YOU
37
File No. 9110209
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
            EMT-P KATHY ZARR
   Interview Date:  November 27, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
K. ZARR 2
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today is November 27th,
     2001.  I'm Paul Radenberg with the Fire
     Department, City of New York.  The time is
     now 0656 hours.  I am conducting an
     interview with --
          EMT ZARR:  Kathryn Zarr, paramedic,
     Battalion 22, Station 52.
          MR. RADENBERG:  This interview is being
     conducted regarding the events of September
     11th, 2001.  Also present for the interview
     is --
          MR. SAMOJEDNY:  Eugene Samojedny, Fire
     Department, City of New York.
          MR. RADENBERG:  This interview is being
     conducted at EMS Battalion 22.
     Q.   Kathy, if you can start from when you
were assigned to the job.
     A.   We're stationed out here in Staten
Island, and when the first plane hit they
mobilized some of the units to go out to
Manhattan.  I guess that's part of their preplan
for MCIs.
          While we were in the tunnel on the way
there, the second plane had hit, and we didn't
K. ZARR 3
know it until we pulled out of the tunnel and
somebody had advised us later on that the second
plane hit.
          They told us to put our vehicle on
Liberty Avenue right by West Street, right on the
corner there, and set up a secondary triage area
because they were expecting burn patients and
everything else.  So we parked our vehicle, and
behind the building there was an alcove.  We set
up all of our equipment as far as a triage area.
          So after that was done, we were just
hanging out, waiting to see what was going to
happen next or when we were going to get any
patients.
          I know Chief Grant was there from
Battalion 22 on that corner with us.  His aide
was there.  There was some units also here from
Staten Island, but they were the voluntary units.
I think one was from Bayley Seton and one from
St. Vincent's, I believe, and a Richmond County
ambulance, one of the private ambulettes out
here.  For some reason they sent a truck up there
as well.
          Once that was done, like I said, we
K. ZARR 4
were just hanging out, not really doing much of
anything.  We were watching the buildings and
watching the people jumping from the buildings.
The next thing you know, we heard this rumble, we
looked up and tower two was coming down.
          We were able to run maybe half a block
before we got overtaken by the debris cloud.  I
lost my partner and most of the other people
there, and I got thrown into one of the alcoves
of the building from the wave.
          After a few minutes of hanging out in
blackness, I figured I had to start walking to
try to get at least oriented.  I found a fireman.
He was nice enough to give me a couple hits off a
Scott pack to try to get some air at least.  I
don't know if you were there during any of this.
     Q.   No, not that morning.
     A.   It was like breathing sand.  You
couldn't catch a breath at all.
          Once I got that, I turned around, found
my ambulance again.  I had to turn back, and you
actually had to be on top of the truck before you
could actually see any of the numbers.  That's
how black it was.  You couldn't see your hand in
K. ZARR 5
front of your face.
          I took all the respirator masks we have
M-95s.  I took them all out of the truck, put one
on myself and just went back out and trying to
find everybody again and just pass them out to
whomever you could find.
          I found one captain.  I don't remember
her name.  I started finding the people that we
went down there with.  Just handed out whoever
didn't have a mask, handed out masks.  As we were
trying to find out equipment, get everything
reorganized again, the next tower came down.
          We got overcome by the debris cloud
again, wound up at the end of -- I'm not sure if
it's West End Street where the water hits it.  I
wound up down there with a whole bunch of
civilians.  I took out whatever O2 tanks we had
from the truck, put it inside one of the
buildings that they opened up for us, and just
started treating the asthmatics or whatever else
found their way down there.
          Then they evacuated the area because of
the gas leak, and they started dumping everybody
on harbor boats.
Q. Right.
K. ZARR 6
     A.   Well, they wanted to take us over to
Jersey.  I knew there was a triage area over in
Manhattan, the ferry.
     Q.   Right, Battery Park.
     A.   Yeah.  My brother happens to be a
harbor pilot, so the guy was nice enough to
transport me to the ferry instead of to Jersey.
          So we made our way over there with
whatever O2 tanks we could carry, and I wound up
over at the south ferry, treating whoever came in
over there.  I don't remember what time I got
there.  It was well after the second collapse and
after they started evacuating people for some
sort of gas leak.
     Q.   Who was your partner that day?
     A.   Mark Harris.
     Q.   Mark Harris.
          When you went into Manhattan, you said
you went through the tunnel.  You went through
the Battery Tunnel?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Do you remember how you came up?
     A.   We made a right-hand turn, and all you
K. ZARR 7
saw was airplane parts and body parts in the
street.
     Q.   You were coming up north on West Side
Highway?
     A.   Yes.  We made a left onto Liberty, and
we ended up I believe it was right here, because
I remember the street that we were on.  They
parked us on the corner on Liberty, but I
remember the street we were on.  We drove down
the street to get away from anything else that
might have happened as far as the debris cloud
and stuff.  It was a dead end.  We drove
ourselves into a dead end, and that's where the
water was.
     Q.   Okay.  That was probably coming down
here South End Avenue?
A. Yeah.
     Q.   So your staging area was on Liberty
between West and South?
     A.   Right.
     Q.   You said you had seen Chief Grant.
     A.   And his aide Mary.
     Q.   And his aide.  Do you remember seeing
any other EMS personnel at that triage area?
K. ZARR 8
     A.   Yeah, but I don't know who they were.
They left me to set up the area while they were
doing other things, because it was a secondary
area and they knew they had another one set up I
think in front of the building or in the lobby of
the building itself.  So what they were going to
do was use us as the secondary point.  So they
left me with --
          MR. RADENBERG:  The interview is
     paused.
          (Interruption.)
          MR. RADENBERG:  The time is now 0827
     hours.  We are resuming the interview.  All
     parties indicated at the beginning of the
     tape are present.
     Q.   So triage was here on Liberty between
South End and West.  When the tower collapsed or
the first tower two collapsed, do you remember
which way you went at that point, who was with
you?
     A.   I had one of the girls from Richmond
County ambulance with me.  Where everybody else
went, I have no idea.  Everybody just started
scattering.  I had to stop because she had
K. ZARR 9
fallen.  I picked her up.  As I did that, that
cloud just came around the corner.  So I think we
were running on End Avenue.  Which end?
     Q.   That's South End.
     A.   South End.  We were running this way.
     Q.   South.
     A.   Right.  I made it not even half a block
before that cloud caught up.  She wound up diving
under a city bus, and there was an alcove.  The
pressure of the cloud pushed me into the alcove.
So that's where I wound up.
     Q.   Do you have any idea where your partner
was at this point?
     A.   None whatsoever.  None whatsoever.
     Q.   When you first arrived on the scene and
was setting up the triage area, was he still --
     A.   Yeah, he was driving that day, so he
was positioning the ambulance and stuff while I
was positioning all the equipment.  I guess I had
most of the techs from the different trucks,
whatever the techs were that day.  We were all
setting up inside with the chairs and stuff.  We
were trying to set up in case we got a lot of
patients and stuff.
K. ZARR 10
     Q.   So basically as far as you know through
the first collapse Mark was still at the vehicle?
     A.   Yeah, I had no idea where he was after
that first collapse.  I had no idea where he
went.  After the collapse, like I said, it took a
minute for me to find where everything was.  But
I went back to the vehicle to get those masks,
and there was nobody there.  The back door of the
vehicle, it was open.  So there was like soot and
debris and stuff all inside the truck and
everything else.
          But I had no idea where he was.  It
took a while for the dust to settle, literally
for the dust to settle, for us to even see and to
try to find everybody.  After a while I did find
him and see him and then lost him again when the
second collapse happened.
     Q.   In between the two collapses when you
found him, where were you?
     A.   Trying to find all our equipment.  We
were back to where --
     Q.   Back at triage?
     A.   Back to where the triage was.  We went
back to try to find all the equipment.  Because
K. ZARR 11
the first building came down, I didn't think the
second one is going to come down.  I don't know
why we didn't think so.  I guess we didn't want
to believe it would come down.
          We were trying to find everything to
reset everything up, because now definitely there
are going to be a lot of people hurt.
     Q.   Right.
          So you found Mark back at the triage
area.  Was he injured at all?
     A.   No.  None of us were.  None of us were,
which was a surprise.  It felt like I had a
sunburn.  It looked like I had a sunburn from all
the cuts, just the force of --
Q. The dust?
     A.   -- the dust and stuff.  You felt like
you had glass all over you.  Everything was all
itchy and stuff.  It must have been whatever was
in the cloud.
     Q.   Now, when the second building came
down, do you remember which -- I guess you and
Mark split up again or?
     A.   No, he jumped into the vehicle.  He had
a fireman with him in the back of the truck,
K. ZARR 12
trying to get the vehicle out of there.  We
caught him just before we took off with the
vehicle.
          So I had somebody else who had escaped,
one of the guys who had escaped from the first
collapse.  He worked in that building.  He was
also -- I teach EMTs out here on the island.  He
was one of my students, so I knew he was an EMT.
He wanted to help.  I said, "Okay.  Stay with me.
I don't know what's going to go on."  He got into
the back of the truck, and we ended up down by
that water.
Q. This way?
     A.   Yeah, down here, which was only like
two or three blocks.  I didn't even realize it
was a dead end.  That's how much I know
Manhattan.  We ended up down at the end of the
dead end.
     Q.   The south end of South End Avenue at
South Cove Park is where it dead ends.
          Mark was with you?  He was driving the
truck at that point?
     A.   Right there, yeah.  At that point he
was there.
K. ZARR 13
          The cloud caught up to us.  There was
no getting away from that.  But I took whatever
oxygen tanks we had there, and there was a
building that they had, they were doing
construction on one of the buildings, and the guy
opened it up.
          So all of the civilians and stuff that
had congregated around there went into the
building, whatever had to have their eyes washed.
The guy was very nice.  He just opened everything
up for everybody.  We threw some oxygen tanks in
there.  We had a couple of asthmatics that were
having asthma attacks.  We were treating them
with whatever equipment we had left.
          Then they started evacuating everybody
because of a gas leak, and that's where I totally
lost Mark and I don't know where he went.  It was
just weird.
     Q.   So it was from this area, from South
Cove --
     A.   South Cove.
     Q.   -- that you got on the boat?
     A.   I got on the boat on the Manhattan side
of the ferry terminal where the triage and
K. ZARR 14
treatment area was.
     Q.   The firefighter that was in the back of
the truck -- there was a firefighter with Mark?
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   But you don't know who he was or what
company or anything like that?
A. No, no.
     Q.   When you made your way down here to
South Cove now, do you recall, aside from you and
Mark, any other EMS personnel being down there?
     A.   Yes.  There was a Staten Island
University Hospital ambulance there.  It was
Mitch Powell and Danny Frazier.  They emptied out
their O2 tanks and gave them to me too.  Like I
said, we only had the two that were left from the
truck because all our gear is buried now wherever
the treatment area was all the way down by the
towers.  So they gave us whatever they had to try
to help us out, and they were there.  I don't
know what happened to them after that.
     Q.   Going back a little bit, before you got
the job, you had mentioned a female captain.  EMS
captain?
     A.   EMS captain.
Q. PD?
K. ZARR 15
     A.   It was a female EMS captain.  She was
in that area.  I don't remember her name.
     Q.   That was at the triage area when you
first got there?
     A.   Yes, when I first got there and after
the first collapse I saw her.  I didn't see her
after the second collapse.  I didn't see anybody
after the second collapse.
     Q.   Do you remember what she looked like at
all?
     A.   I just saw her again too, and I don't
remember her name.  I'm bad with names.  I don't
remember her name.  She was a blonde, I guess in
her forties.
     Q.   Captain Deshore?
     A.   That's it.  She was just at that
function in Manhattan at the hotel.
     Q.   That's pretty much if for questions I
have at this point.  Anything else would like to
add?  Opinions?  Comments?  Anything of that
nature?
     A.   There's no comment.  I don't know what
to say about this.
K. ZARR 16
          When did you guys start doing the
interviews?  Just recently you started with all
this?
     Q.   A couple weeks ago.
     A.   Because I've only been back to work for
two weeks.
     Q.   Yeah.  A couple of weeks ago we
started, probably about a month, actually, maybe
a month and a half.
     A.   Yeah, because I was out sick.  I was
out sick for two months.
     Q.   Actually the beginning of October,
somewhere around there.
     A.   I didn't come back to work for about
two weeks.
          Anything else?
     Q.   No, no.
          MR. RADENBERG:  The time is now 0837,
     and the interview is concluded.
File No. 9110210
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      LIEUTENANT RICHARD SMIOUSKAS
   Interview Date:  November 27, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
                  R. SMIOUSKAS                  2
          MR. McCOURT:  The date is November
     27th, 2001.  The time is 9:03 hours.  My
     name is Tom McCourt, New York City Fire
     Department.
          MR. MURAD:  Murray Murad, New York City
     Fire Department.
          MR. McCOURT:  We're currently
     interviewing --
          LIEUTENANT SMIOUSKAS:  Lieutenant
     Richard Smiouskas, S-M-I-O-U-S-K-A-S.
     Q.   Lieutenant, could you tell me the
events that took place from your perspective on
September 11th, 2001, please.
     A.   Yes.  I was in the office in the
morning, and I was sitting at my desk doing TPRs
when I received a beep.
     Q.   Where is your office?
     A.   The second floor of headquarters, Room
206.
          I received a beep, and the beep said
that a plane had crashed into the World Trade
Center.  I immediately turned around -- I had a
TV set in the office, but I keep the sound off so
I didn't hear anything.  I turned around and
                  R. SMIOUSKAS                  3
looked at the TV set and saw at least ten stories
of smoke coming out of the World Trade Center.  I
said oh, my God.
          I went to the back.  I grabbed 20 rolls
of film.  There was a photo bag.  I grabbed the
photo bag, threw a couple cameras in there.  I
responded to the scene in a Fire Department
suburban with lights and sirens over the Brooklyn
Bridge.  They had a lane open on the Brooklyn
Bridge for emergency vehicles.
     Q.   Did you go alone?
     A.   I was by myself.  We don't have anybody
on duty in the forwarding unit until 11 a.m.  So
I covered the car from when I come on duty from
about 7:00 until 11.  So I was the only one on
duty at the time.
          I went, lights and sirens, over the
Brooklyn Bridge.  Just as I was reaching the end
of the bridge, there was a loud explosion and I
saw a fireball come across the sky, realizing
that the south tower --
     Q.   Did you actually see the south tower?
     A.   Yes.  I could see it from the bridge.
I saw an explosion and fireball and thick black
                  R. SMIOUSKAS                  4
smoke just going across the sky.  Then I realized
we were being attacked.  I didn't know if it was
missiles coming in or another plane.
          I got to the base the Brooklyn Bridge.
I made the turn that goes around I think Centre
Street right by City Hall, and I took that to
Broadway.  I had to be very careful there because
there were thousands of people in the street
running across the street, streaming across the
Brooklyn Bridge.  There was terror on their
faces.  There was some people I noticed that were
covered with black smoke.  They were probably
maybe in the building.
          As I'm coming down Broadway, there were
people running across the street.  I almost hit a
few people, by the way.  I parked the car just
south of Vesey Street on Broadway.  I parked
there because I knew this was going to be a long,
involved fire, and I didn't want to get blocked
in by other vehicles.
          In my experience I go to fires, and
parking too close to the fire building you get
jammed in.  So I knew this was going to be a long
and prolonged operation.  So I parked just south
                  R. SMIOUSKAS                  5
of Vesey on Broadway.
          I got my camera bag, and I went to
Liberty that Engine 10 and Ladder 10 is on.  So
it was just south of Liberty Street.
     Q.   Liberty and Trinity?
     A.   I was about Cedar.  That's where I
parked the vehicle on Broadway, Broadway and just
south of Liberty.  That's where I parked the
vehicle.
     Q.   Mark it on the map.
     A.   I walked across, and I'm looking up at
the fire and taking some shots and photographing
while I'm walking.  As I got to the quarters of
Engine 10 and Ladder 10, I glanced in there real
quick.  The apparatus were out.  But I saw some
guys putting jackets and bunker gear on.
          I continued down about a couple hundred
feet.  I looked on the ground and I saw what I
thought was a roasted pig.  I've seen them at
weddings and things like that, roasted pigs.  I
looked at it again, and it was actually a torso.
I saw a rib cage.  I looked up and saw body
parts, feet, a hand with a ring on it, a face
with a mustache and eyes and part of an ear.
                  R. SMIOUSKAS                  6
Just a face, no head, just a face.  I saw like
the window of an airplane, one of those small
plastic windows.
          As I'm walking down, I'm looking up,
watching people jump, I'm watching the fire.  I
get to just Liberty and West Street where I ran
into Jerry Barbara, Chief Barbara.  Citywide was
talking to him.  He turns around and said:
"Richie, this is not good."  I said take care.  I
took a shot, a photograph, of him with the
building behind him.  I believe it was Engine 279
the lieutenant came up behind us and asked the
chief where did he want him, and the chief said
just stand fast.  I said:  "Jerry, take care, be
careful."
          I left and made my way to the west side
of -- I was standing right next to the hotel,
just the hotel.  I took a few photographs there.
Then I made my way into the Two World Financial
Center, and I tried to get to the roof of that
building.  There was nobody there that would
allow me up to the roof.  So I went into Three
World Trade Center, and I found an engineer.  We
walked back to Two World Trade Center, and he got
                  R. SMIOUSKAS                  7
me up to the roof.
          I was photographing the fire from the
roof.  I had a long lens on the camera, and I had
people in the windows.  It looked like they were
being -- they weren't actually jumping.  One or
two people I saw, they seemed like they were
being forced out by the people behind them.
There was half a dozen faces.  In between the
smoke you could see people.
          I guess they were all trying to get
air, and this guy was actually standing in the
window, standing in the frame with each hand on
each frame and he kind of like got nudged out.
I'm sure the people were jumping -- I took about
maybe half a dozen shots of people actually
falling.  I said that's enough of that.
          I brought my way down the elevator.  I
went across the Winter Garden, and then I went
over the pedestrian bridge by Vesey Street.  That
bridge goes directly into the Six World Trade
Center.  At the time I didn't know it was Six
World Trade Center.
          I went into the mezzanine, which is
about maybe 25 feet north of the north tower.  In
                  R. SMIOUSKAS                  8
that mezzanine I saw Father Judge.  He was
praying.  I looked out the window, these large 15
foot glass windows.  I glanced out, and I saw the
people hitting the pavement.  I could still hear
what I think was people hitting the roof.  You
could hear explosions or thuds on the roof.
Q. Overhead?
     A.   Overhead, landing on the roof of Six
World Trade Center.
          I turned around, and where the glass
was clear I heard another explosion and I turned
around and looked at the glass and there was just
chunks that were splattered with blood.  There
was actually chunks of I guess human flesh was
just dripping down.  I looked and the person that
just landed there just exploded like a
watermelon.  The largest piece I saw of the
person was maybe a hand.  They just splattered
like a pancake.
          I took a few photographs.  I turned
around.  I told Father Judge be careful.  All of
a sudden there was this groaning sound like a
roar, grrrr.  The ground started to shake.
Father Judge started going out the revolving
                  R. SMIOUSKAS                  9
doors.  I said don't go outside.  The last time I
saw him, he went out the revolving door.
          I turned around and I started going
back towards West Street.  It looked like an
earthquake.  The ground was shaking.  I fell to
the floor.  My camera bag opened up.  The cameras
went skidding across the floor.  The windows
started exploding in.  I just rolled into the
corner to protect myself from the glass.
          The next thing I knew, it was
pitch-black.  You couldn't see in front of you.
You couldn't breathe.  Every time you took a
breath, you were just swallowing -- you were
gasping.  I took my shirt off and wrapped it
around my head so I could breathe.
          It felt like an eternity getting out of
that building.  I was disoriented.  I knew the
general idea of where I was.  I was actually
thinking about going out the windows where the
glass was broke, but I figured people were still
jumping and I didn't know exactly what was going
on outside.  I'm thinking maybe the building
snapped in half.  I'm thinking maybe a bomb blew
up.  I'm thinking it could have been a nuclear.
                  R. SMIOUSKAS                 10
I didn't know what was going on.
          I went against the wall, and I felt the
wall and I just kept going in the direction that
I came in.  I kept banging into things.  I came
to another wall, went through a revolving door,
and I found myself back on the bridge, the
pedestrian bridge.  From there I got back into
the Winter Garden.
     Q.   What was it like outside at that point?
     A.   Pitch-black.
     Q.   Still pitch-black?
     A.   Pitch-black.
     Q.   So you didn't stay in the building
long; you just got out as quick as you could?
     A.   It felt like an hour getting out of
there, but I would estimate it to be maybe eight
minutes.
          When I got into the Winter Garden, it
was very clear in there.  Just a couple pieces of
glass were broken.  They came crashing down.  I
was looking up and watching that.  It was hazy,
just a haze in there.
          Then I went out the back door where the
marina is, the North Cove Yacht Harbor is, that
                  R. SMIOUSKAS                 11
area, and wasn't black, it was just like real,
real hazy and dusty.  I went south around Two
World Financial Center, and I looked and what I
could see is the north tower was still burning,
the south tower wasn't there.  I said oh, my God,
the whole thing came down.
          I went back around where I came, and I
went a little north of the Three World Trade
Center and went to the corner of Vesey and West
Street.  There was a lot of chaos.  I'm looking
up and saying this building's going to come down
also.  There had to be about a hundred people in
the street looking up.
          I remember yelling:  The microwave
tower is bending over.  I saw it leaning over.  I
said the microwave tower is leaning over.  The
antenna was leaning over.  At that point
everybody started moving north.
     Q.   Did you see anybody that you recognized
or anybody you knew at that point?
     A.   No.  There were some cops, there was
some firemen, there was EMTs, there was a lot of
civilians, there was photographers, but nobody I
recognized, no.
                  R. SMIOUSKAS                 12
          I don't know if I went to Warren Street
or Murray Street.  I went up the next block and
went over to the West Street area.  I was
standing on West Street and Murray with a whole
bunch of people, and all of a sudden the north
tower started to come down.
          Everybody started running north, and
this huge volume like ten stories high billowing,
pushing black smoke and like a glitter.  I guess
it was glass that was glitter that was in the
cloud of smoke.  I saw everything flying around.
I looked back, and there was this thing flying,
coming at me.
          I started running north.  I got to the
corner, and it was engulfing all the buildings
around, maybe 50 feet away from me.  I tried a
couple of doors, and then I went into a bodega on
the corner and shut the door.  There were maybe
ten people in that bodega.  I held the door shut
and it just kind of blew by like a hurricane, all
this debris and paper, thousands of paper in it.
Then it got pitch-black again.  It was midnight
again.
          I waited for a few minutes.  I took
                  R. SMIOUSKAS                 13
some water out of the bodega and was dumping it
in my eyes.  My eyes were burning.  I started
drinking water and spitting up.  I waited a few
minutes and went outside.  There were papers
burning in the street.
          As I made my way back to the scene,
there were cars burning, a bus was burning, it
was dark.  There were other buildings on fire.  I
made my way back, and there were people just
milling about.  I just saw the devastation, The
carnage.
          I went back around towards the south
tower.  There was really nothing to do.  People
were being helped by people holding other people.
I couldn't even take any photographs.  My cameras
were lost in the building.
     Q.   You don't have the cameras?
     A.   No.  I had shot about maybe eight or
nine rolls of film of the initial events.  I was
groping around for the camera.  I couldn't find
anything, and I said let me get the hell out of
here.  I don't know what's going on.
          Actually when I was in the building, I
knew the building had a little overhang.  So I'm
                  R. SMIOUSKAS                 14
thinking if this building comes down, the way it
overhangs and something hits it, I may have a
void, thinking about a void.
     Q.   It was self-preservation?
     A.   Yes.  If I have a void, it's better I
stay in here than go out with the buildings
falling down.  I knew I had about six stories
above me of that building.  I felt I had
protection.
     Q.   Did you get hurt at all?
     A.   No.  Just rolling on the floor, my
right hip was bothering me a couple days, like a
little bruise or something.  I felt painful for a
few days, but that's about it, just getting up.
I was coughing for about two weeks.
     Q.   Anything else you can think of that you
want to elaborate on a little more or reflect on?
     A.   No.  It was pretty horrible.
Emotionally the terror on the people's faces in
the windows.  You could see the poor souls
hitting the pavement.  I saw maybe 12 people
actually fall.
          I remember digging out a little bit.
Really there wasn't that much you could do
                  R. SMIOUSKAS                 15
because the steel was these huge beams of steel
15, 10 stories high level.  The steel was up two,
three stories laying against the building.  The
north bridge that I had walked across on the
second collapse, the north bridge was destroyed.
          It kind of shook me up a little bit
when you figure you were there maybe 15, 20
minutes before the collapse.  I was just worried
about getting out.  That's all.  My biggest fear
was I was disoriented in the darkness, and it was
a pretty big mezzanine to find your way out.
          That's what my main concern was.  I
said let me find the exit so I can get the hell
out of here.  And I was afraid I was going to get
lost in there and not know what was going on, on
a personal note.
          That was my story.
          MR. McCOURT:  The time is 9:20.  That
     concludes this interview.
          Thank you very much.
          THE WITNESS:  You're welcome.

MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOWINTERVIEW OF BC RICHARD PICCIOTTO
INTERVIEW OF
BATTALION CHIEF RICHARD PICCIOTTO
ON SEPTEMBER 17 2001

MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW
MONTEL WILLIAMS TODAY WERE GOING TO DEDICATE OUR SHOWTO ALL THOSE WHO WORKED SO HARD TO HELP THE MANY VICTIMS THE SURVIVORS OF THE ATTACK ON AMERICA OURCOUNTRY SHOULD BE PROUD BECAUSE WE HAVE SO MANY HEROES AMONG US AND IM JUST IN AWE OF THE FACT THAT HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SIT BESIDE TRUE TRUE HERO FIRST PLEASE WELCOME AT HOME THE BATTALION CHIEF FROM THE 11TH BATTALION IN NEWYORK CITY MR RICH PICCIOTTO
THESE PEOPLE AT HOME THAT ARE LOOKING RIGHT NOW RICH THEY SEE THE DARK GLASSES YOU WERE
ORIGINALLY UP IN YOUR BATTALION HEADQUARTERS WHERE WERE YOU AT
CHIEF PICCIOTTO ARRIVED WAY AFTER THE SECOND PLANE HIT BUT WE RUSHED DOWNJUST REAL QUICK
MONTEL WILLIAMS YOU WERE SITTING IN YOUR OFFICE AND SOMEONE CAME IN AND SAID TO YOU RICH YOU NEED TO LOOK AT THIS
CHIEF PICCIOTTO YES TURN ON THE TV PLANE HIT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
MONTEL WILLIAMS AND AS FIREFIGHTER AND YOUVE BEEN FIREFIGHTER FOR WHAT 28 YEARS CHIEF PICCIOTTO 28 YEARS YES
MONTEL WILLIAMS SO IN 28 YEARS IMMEDIATELY YOUR WHEELS START SPINNING CORRECT
CHIEF PICCIOTTO MY WHEELS ARE SPINNING SUPER WAS ONE OF THE FIRST FIREFIGHTERS AT THE INITIAL WORLD TRADE CENTER BOMBING WASTHERE AND KNEWTHE BUILDING AND FELT HAD TO BE THERE
MONTEL WILLIAMS WHAT DID IT LOOK LIKE WHEN YOU HIT THE BOTTOM OF THE TWO OF THE TALLER BUILDINGS IN THE WORLD YOU PULL UP WHAT DID YOU SEE
CHIEF PICCIOTTO RUSHED INTO THE LOBBY SEE THE COMMANDER CHIEF HIGHER THAN ME HES GOING INSANE HES OVERLOADED SO THERES COMPANIES WAITING TO BE YOU KNOW WHAT DO WE
NEED WHAT DO WE NEED WE DONT JUST RUN IN IT LOOKS LIKE WE RUN IN BUT IT IS
STRUCTURE AND GET COUPLE COMPANIES TO THE SIDE GO TO THE CHIEF IN CHARGE WHAT DO YOU NEED AND HE TELLS ME WHAT HE NEEDS TAKE MY COMPANIES AND WE GO
MONTEL WILLIAMS AND WHEN YOU SAY YOU GO YOU STARTED RUNNING UP THOSE STEPS
COMMAND

MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW
CHIEF PICCIOTTO NOT RUNNING WESTART GOING YOU HAVE TO REALIZE EVERY FIREMAN HAVE
LIGHT LOAD BECAUSE IM CHIEF JUST HAVE MY BUNKER GEAR MY TANK FLASHLIGHT AND BULLHORN WHICH IS THE FIRST TIME EVER CARRIED THAT BULLHORN IT SAVED COUNTLESS LIVES THE FIREMEN HAVE THAT
PLUS AN EXTRA TANK HOSE TOOLS IM CARRYING DONT KNOW APPROXIMATELY 50 60 POUNDS THEYRE CARRYING AN ADDITIONAL 30 40 POUNDS ON TOP OF THAT SO WERE GOING UP THE STAIRWELL WERE NOT
RUNNING UP THE STAIRWELL AND AT THIS POINT WERE GOING UP AND PEOPLE ARE COMING DOWN MONTEL WILLIAMS PEOPLE ARE COMING DOWN AND OF COURSE YOURE TRYING TO ORCHESTRATE THAT TRAFFIC FLOW
CHIEF PICCIOTTO RIGHT AND THATS WHERE THE BULLHORN CAME IN HANDY
MONTEL WILLIAMS YOU MADE IT UP TO THE 21ST 22ND FLOOR CORRECT
CHIEF PICCIOTTO THAT WAS MY INITIAL ASSIGNMENT PEOPLE TRAPPED ON THE 21ST AND 25 TH FLOOR MONTEL WILLIAMS IM GOING TO DO THIS HAVE TO TAKE BREAK BUT BEFORE TAKE BREAK
THERE WERE SOME THINGS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE THE SHOW
CHIEF PICCIOTTO RIGHT
MONTEL WILLIAMS WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT COUPLE OF THEM LETS DO ONE RIGHT NOW AND WELL TAKE BREAK AND WELL COME BACK YOU WANTED TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY OUT THERE WAS AWARE OF WHAT
CHIEF PICCIOTTO OKAY COUPLE THINGS THAT WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW THIS IS MASSIVE
TRAGEDY FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT FOR EVERYBODY FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT IN PARTICULAR BECAUSE WEVE BEEN HIT SO HARD THE FORMAL ORGANIZATION THAT WE USUALLY USE TO TAKE CARE OF OUR MEMBERS IS NOT THERE THEYRE OVERLOADED THE INFORMAL NETWORK ALSO THE MEMBERS IN THE FIREHOUSE HELPING THEIR FELLOWS IN NEED IS NOT THERE SOMEFIREHOUSES ARE WIPED OUT THE ONES THAT ARE NOT WIPED OUT THEYRE WORKING THEYRE DIGGING THROUGHTHE RUBBLE

MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW
MONTEL WILLIAMS SO MANY FIREFIGHTERS IN NEWYORK CITY HAVE BEEN LOST THAT THERE ARENT
ENOUGH PEOPLE TO GO AROUND AND SEE AND COUNSEL THE WIVES AND THE FAMILIES AND THERE ARE LOT
OF PEOPLE OUT THERE RIGHT NOW AND ITS NOT BECAUSE JUST OUT OF NECESSITY THEYRE JUST NOT GETTING SERVICES THAT THEY NEED
CHIEF PICCIOTTO RIGHT EXACTLY WERE RELYING ON FAMILY AND FRIENDS GO TO THESE WIVES STAY WITH THEM EVEN THOUGH THEY SAYSOME OF THEM ARE IN DENIAL IVE BEEN VISITING SOME OF THEM THEYRE IN DENIAL OH KNOW MY HUSBAND IS SAFE WAS IN THE BUILDING WHEN IT CAME DOWN
AS FAR AS KNOW THERE WERE ELEVEN SURVIVORS OUT OF BOTH BUILDINGS IM ONE OF THEM WEWERE TRAPPED FOUR HOURS SO IM GOING TO THESE PEOPLE SAYING YES THERE IS HOPE BUT THE HOPE IS VERY SLIM
WHAT NEED IS JUST NEIGHBORS AND FRIENDS WHO KNOWTHESE PEOPLE THERES MILLIONS OF VOLUNTEERS
AND THEY WOULD ALL GO BUT THESE WIVES AND THESE FAMILIES DONT NEED STRANGERS THEY NEED SUPPORT FROM NEIGHBORS THERES NO SUPPORT FROM THE FORMAL FIRE DEPARTMENT THERES NO FORMAL SUPPORT VERY LITTLE EXCUSE ME VERY LITTLE SUPPORT FORMALLY AND VERY LITTLE SUPPORT ESPECIALLY THE HEAVYHIT HOUSES ITS VERY LITTLE SUPPORT BECAUSE THE HOUSES ARE DECIMATED THE FIREHOUSES AND THE PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT MISSING ARE DOWNTHERE LOOKING FORTHE PEOPLE THAT ARE MISSING
MONTEL WILLIAMS IM WITH YOU
CHIEF PICCIOTTO THANK YOU
MONTEL WILLIAMS AGAIN RICH YOU AND YOUR TEAM YOU COMMANDED THE GUYS YOU GOT UP TO THE 21 FLOOROF BUILDING YOU STARTED GETTING PEOPLE TO MOVE JUST TELL MEWHAT YOU SAWWHEN YOU HIT 21
CHIEF PICCIOTTO OKAY BASICALLY MY INITIAL ASSIGNMENT WAS 21ST 25TH FLOOR THERES PEOPLE TRAPPED IN NEED WE GOT UP THERE THERE ARE ALREADY OTHER FIREFIGHTERS THERE ONCE OUR INITIAL
ASSIGNMENT WAS DONE TOLD THE COMMAND POST THAT THIS IS OKAY AND IM GOING FURTHER UP

MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW
MONTEL WILLIAMS YOU MADE IT UP TO WHAT ABOUT THE 35TH 36TH
CHIEF PICCIOTTO SOMEWHERE IN THE 30S WHEN TALK ABOUT FLOORS AND WHEN TALK ABOUT TIME
SEQUENCES THEYRE GUESSTIMATIONS MONTEL WILLIAMS OF COURSE
CHIEF PICCIOTTO IM UP IN APPROXIMATELY TOWER SOMEWHEREIN THE 30S AND THIS RUMBLING STARTS HAPPENING BY THIS TIME ALL CIVILIANS CIVILIANS STOPPED COMING DOWNWHEN HIT ABOUT THE
16TH FLOOR 20TH FLOOR AGAIN THATS GUESSTIMATIONS THEY WERE ALREADY MOSTLY DOWN SO THE
ONES ABOVE THAT WERE JUST FIREMEN YOU KNOW COPS EMERGENCYWORKERS MOSTLY FIREMEN
WE HEAR THIS NOISE AND EVERYONE JUST FREEZES AND ITS RUMBLING SUSTAINED RUMBLING IVE
HEARD MANY PEOPLE DESCRIBE IT DIFFERENT WAYS TO ME IT WAS INDESCRIBABLE YOU KNOW IT WAS THE FIRST TIME ANYONE HEARD THIS NOISE
MONTEL WILLIAMS 50 60 TRAINS COMING AT THE SAME TIME
CHIEF PICCIOTTO YES
MONTEL WILLIAMS THE NOISE OFTEN TORNADOES
CHIEF PICCIOTTO AND GO INTO THE HALLWAY EVERYONE FREEZES AND WERE TRYING TO WHAT IS THIS THE BUILDING IS SHAKING NOWTHIS IS THE BUILDING THATS NOT FALLING DOWN THIS WAS THE OTHER BUILDING
MONTEL WILLIAMS BUILDING IS SHAKING
CHIEF PICCIOTTO
SUSTAINED YOU TELL ME HOW LONG IT TOOK THAT BUILDING
MONTEL WILLIAMS ID SAY 30 SECONDS
CHIEF PICCIOTTO THATS MY GUESSTIMATION 30 40 SECONDS AND THEN IT STOPS AND THERES AN EERIE SILENCE BECAUSE LIKE SAID WERE ALL FIREMEN UP THERE AND WERE PROFESSIONALS AND
EVERYONE IS WAITING SO ITS AN EERIE SILENCE THE RADIOS STOP WE HAVE DIFFERENT CHANNELS THEY STOP AND EVERYONE IS YOU KNOW WHAT WAS THAT
BUILDING IS SHAKING BUILDING
WAS FALLING TO FALL
REALIZE THAT
WE DONT

MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW
MONTEL WILLIAMS AND YOURE THINKING IMMEDIATELY MY GOD WE JUST LOST COMMANDCENTER
CHIEF PICCIOTTO NO DIDNT REALIZE THAT THE BUILDING CAME DOWN DIDNT KNOWWHAT THAT WAS IM THINKING MAYBE ELEVATORS BROKE LOOSE AND ELEVATORS ARE FALLING THROUGHTHE YOU KNOW DIFFERENT THINGS ARE CROSSING MY MIND MAYBE ELEVATORS MAYBE ANOTHER PLANE HIT MAYBE THERE WAS COLLAPSE UP ABOVE AND ITS JUST PARTIAL COLLAPSE
SO IM CALLING ON THE RADIO TO TRY TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED FINALLY GET RESPONSE THE
TOWER WENT DOWN THAT STILL DOESNT COMPUTE TO ME THE TOWER WENT DOWN WAS IT WATER TOWER THE RADIO TOWERS BECAUSE CANT SEE AND THEN SOMEONE SAYS THE BUILDING WENT DOWNTHE WHOLE BUILDING NOWTHE PEOPLE AROUND ME THE FIREFIGHTERS ARE LOOKING AT ME AND YOU KNOW WHAT ARE WEGOING TO DO SO IM TRYING TO CALL THE COMMANDPOST IM CALLING IM CALLING IM GETTING NO RESPONSE NO RESPONSE EVERYONE IS LOOKING AT ME YOU KNOWAT THIS POINT IF SAID KEEP ON GOING UP WERE PROFESSIONALS THEYRE GOING TO DO WHAT TELL THEM KEEP ON GOING UP
THEN IM THINKING WHEN KNOWTHE BUILDING CAME DOWN NO ONE IS LISTENING TO ME POSSIBLY THERE IS NO ONE TO GIVE ME DIRECTIONS THEY MAY BE WIPED OUT LIKE SAID BASICALLY THERES NO CIVILIANS LEFT IN MY BUILDING BECAUSE REACHED THEM ABOUT THE 16TH FLOOR FIGURED BY THIS TIME THEYRE OUT SO THE ONLY PEOPLE IN BUILDING TOWER NOW ARE FIREMEN
MONTEL WILLIAMS AND EVERYBODY IN THE FLOORS ABOVE
CHIEF PICCIOTTO ARE FIREMEN OURFIRST PRIORITY IS TO SAVE LIFE WEDEFINE LIFE INTO TWO PRIORITIES CIVILIAN LIFE FIRST AND THEN SECOND FIREFIGHTERS LIVES HAVE TO SAVE FIREFIGHTERS LIVES ALSO IM GETTING NO RESPONSE SO TAKE IT UPON MYSELF TO CALL FOR AN EVACUATION HAVE THAT BULLHORN CALL ON THE RADIOS WERE EVACUATING WERE GETTING OUT DROP YOUR TOOLS DROP YOUR MASKS DROP EVERYTHING GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT MY THINKING WAS EITHER THOUGHT BOMB HIT THE OTHER BUILDING AND BROUGHT IT DOWNAND IF THERES BOMBIN THAT ONE THERES BOMB IN THIS ONE AT THAT POINT WHAT IM THINKING OF IS THIS BUILDING IS GOING TO COME DOWNALSO THE SECOND BUILDING SO CALL FOR THE EVACUATION THE EVACUATION YOU KNOW ITS AN ORDERLY EVACUATION ITS NOT

MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW
MONTEL WILLIAMS CHAOTIC
CHIEF PICCIOTTO ITS NOT CHAOTIC WERE PROFESSIONALS WERE FILTERING UP THE BUILDING
EVERYTHING STOPS AND NOW WESLOWLY ARE FILTERING DOWNTHE BUILDING BECAUSE NO ONE COMES ON THE COMMANDCHANNEL TO TELL ME OTHERWISE
AS WERE GOING DOWNNOW IM HEARING SOMEONE FROM THE COMMANDPOST THAT IS VOICE RECOGNIZE WHO ORDERED THIS EVACUATION WHATS GOING ON WHOS IN CHARGE AND IM SAYING TO MYSELF DID THE WRONG THING HERE SO ITS AMAZING THEY GIVE THE ORDER FROM THE COMMANDPOST STAND BY
MONTEL WILLIAMS MEANING STOP THE EVACUATION
CHIEF PICCIOTTO STOP THE EVACUATION RELAY THAT ORDER AND AMAZING AS THAT IS THESE FIREMEN CANT SAY ENOUGH WE BASICALLY STOP EVERYONE IS WAITING TO FIND OUT WHAT WERE
GOING TO DO CAR CHARLIE WHO THINK KNOWWHOTHAT CHIEF IS SAYS TIME SPAN DONT KNOW CONTINUE THE EVACUATION THIS IS LESS THAN MINUTE THIS WHOLE THING HAPPENS PROBABLY LESS THAN 30 SECONDS AND SO THE EVACUATION CONTINUES AND NOWWERE GOING DOWN
MONTEL WILLIAMS RICH YOU HAD JUST GONE AND YELLED UP EACH ONE OF THE STAIRWELLS AND YOURE HOLLERING AND IVE GOT TO ASK THIS QUESTION THERES SO MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE WONDERED THIS WHENYOU LOOKED UP INTO THOSE STAIRWELLS COULD YOU SEE
CHIEF PICCIOTTO NO
MONTEL WILLIAMS YOU COULDNT SEE IT WAS ALL FILLED WITH SMOKE
CHIEF PICCIOTTO NO IM IN THE FIRST BUILDING THE FIRE IS ABOVE US THE FIRST BUILDING THAT IM IN DONT KNOW APPROXIMATELY THE 90 TH FLOOR THAT THE PLANE HIT THERES SMOKE FILTERING DOWNBUT IM ONLY ON THE 30TH FLOOR WERETREATING BURN VICTIMS THAT WERE THERE COMING DOWNPEOPLE COMING DOWNWITH THEIR CLOTHES BURNT OFF AND WERE REMOVING THESE PEOPLE SOME PEOPLE ARE TREATING THEM AND SOME PEOPLE ARE GOING UP SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE YOU KNOW YOU HAVE SOMEONE HURT BUT YOU HAVE TO LITERALLY ALMOST STEP OVER THEM TO GET TO HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE HURT AND HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE ALIVE

MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW
MONTEL WILLIAMS RIGHT AND THESE ARE JUST REAL RAW JUST REALTIME DECISIONS CHIEF PICCIOTTO YES
MONTEL WILLIAMS
CHIEF PICCIOTTO BASICALLY WERE EVACUATING WEREGOING DOWN WE GET DOWN
APPROXIMATELY SOMEWHEREIN THE TEENS 151 DONT KNOWWHAT FLOOR EVERYTHING STOPS AGAIN ITS
MOSTLY FIREMEN YOU KNOW FEW STRAGGLERS BUT MOSTLY FIREMEN IT STOPS SO HAVE THE BULLHORN
YOU KNOW WHATS HAPPENING KEEP ON GOING WHATS GOING ON
WHAT HAPPENED WAS THE TWO ITS HARD TO DESCRIBE THERES THREE STAIRWAYS THE TWO
STAIRWAYS AND ARE FACING THE SOUTH TOWER THAT CAME DOWN WHEN THE DEBRIS CAME DOWN IT WENT ALL OVER IT WENT INTO THE LOBBY FILLED THOSE STAIRWAYS UP SO PEOPLE COULD GET DOWNBUT THEY COULDNT GET DOWN
MONTEL WILLIAMS INTO THE LOBBY
CHIEF PICCIOTTO INTO THE LOBBY SO ALL OF SUDDEN WE STARTED BACKING UP IN THE STAIRWAYS
AND ARE CLOGGED KNOWTHE BUILDING LAYOUT CHECKED THE STAIRWAY AND THE STAIRWAY IS CLEAR SO NOWAGAIN THIS BULLHORN WAS AMAZING IM USING THAT AND IM DIRECTING EVERYONE TO
THE STAIRWAY WERE GOING DOWN FLOOR BY FLOOR BY FLOOR HITTING EVERY FLOOR UNTIL WE GET TO ONE FLOOR THAT ALL OF SUDDEN LOOK AT AN OFFICE AND THERES BUNCH OF PEOPLE SITTING THERE YOU KNOW WHAT ARE THESE PEOPLE DOING HERE TELL THEM WEVEGOT TO GET OUT OF HERE
WHAT IT WAS WAS THESE PEOPLE WERE THE LAST PEOPLE IN THE BUILDING THEY WERE MOSTLY WELL THEY WERE WHEELCHAIRS INFIRM WALKERS THEY WERE REAL SLOW GETTING DOWN EVERYONE ELSE GOT
DOWN EXCEPT THEM AND THE PEOPLE HELPING THEM THERE WAS APPROXIMATELY DONT KNOW TEN TWELVE INFIRM PEOPLE AND DONT KNOW 50 PEOPLE HELPING THEM
SO HAVE LOT OF FIREMEN THERE TELL THE PEOPLE WHOWERE HELPING THEM YOU LEAVE GO
YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT EVERYTHING IS CLOGGED WITH FIREMEN LEAVING NOW PULL EVERYONE TO THE SIDE GET THESE PEOPLE OUT THE FIREMEN PART THE WAY WERE LETTING THE PEOPLE THAT COULD WALK GO
OKAY

MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW
YOU GET OUT DIRECTED THEM TO THE STAIRWAY THEN WE TAKE THE WHEELCHAIRS BECAUSE THEYRE RELATIVELY EASY JUST ROLL THEM RIGHT OUT ITS THE PEOPLE WITH THE WALKERS THE PEOPLE VERY SLOW VERY
LARGE THEYRE THE PEOPLE THAT WERE HAVING BIT OF PROBLEM WITH IM TRYING TO GET CHAIRS YOU KNOW PUT THEM IN CHAIR IM RUNNING ALL OVER THE PLACE SO THESE PEOPLE ARE WALKING WITH THEIR WALKERS AND CHAIRS AND TELL THE FIREMEN GRAB THEM PICK THEM UP AND GRAB THEM AND THATS WHAT WERE DOING YOU CANT CARRY THEM DOWNAGAIN SAY THE 12TH FLOOR IT COULD HAVE BEEN THE 10TH FLOOR DONT KNOWWHAT FLOOR THIS WAS BUT WERE CARRYING THEM DOWN SLOWLY WERE GETTING THESE PEOPLE OUT GUYS ARE RELIEVING EACH OTHER YOU KNOW CARRYING THEM DOWN LANDING HALF LANDING THEN YOU TAKE OVER AND THEN THIS OTHER TEAM GOES BACK AND WERE MOVING THEM WERE MOVING THEM BASICALLY HAVE TWO TEAMS ON EVERY PERSON AND EVERYONE ELSE SAY GO YOU KNOWGET THE FIREMEN OUT WEDONT NEED 300 PEOPLE DOING THIS WENEED EIGHT PEOPLE PER PERSON FOUR PEOPLE CARRYING AND ANOTHER FOUR SO EVERYONE ELSE PUSH OUT
WE HAD THIS ONE WOMAN FOUND OUT LATER HER NAME BECAUSE WAS TRAPPED WITH HER FOR FEW HOURS JOSEPHINE SHE WAS BIG LADY BIG AFRICANAMERICAN LADY WECOULDNT GET CHAIR FOR HER ALL WE COULD FIND WERE THESE LITTLE STENO CHAIRS WITH NO ARMS YOU KNOWNOTHING THAT WE COULD SIT HER ON AND PICK UP SO SHES TAKING UP THE REAR BUT WERE HAVING SLOW ENOUGH TIME AND GUYS ARE HELPING HER IM BASICALLY TAKING UP THE REAR AND GET DOWNTO AGAIN DONT KNOW WHAT FLOOR TELL PEOPLE YOU KNOW KNOWIT WAS NO LOWER THAN IT WAS HIGHER THAN BUT
DONT KNOWWHAT FLOOR AND THEN THAT NOISE THAT FIRSTTIMEINHISTORYANYONEHEARDTHAT NOISE AND SAID IT WAS VERY UNIQUE NOISE IT STARTS
SAY
MONTEL WILLIAMS
CHIEF PICCIOTTO BEFORE
MONTEL WILLIAMS
YOU STARTED HEARING IT AGAIN
SO HEAR IT AGAIN OUR TOWER IS COMING DOWN OUR TOWER WAS SHAKING
THE ENTIRE BUILDING WAS SHAKING
CHIEF PICCIOTTO THE BUILDING IS SHAKING AND AGAIN WAS ON WHATEVER FLOOR WAS ON 7TH FLOOR
MONTEL WILLIAMS WERE YOU IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FLOOR OR WERE YOU IN THE STAIRWELL

10
MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW
CHIEF PICCIOTTO WE WERE IN THE STAIRWELL EVERYONE WAS IN THE STAIRWELL WE WERE IN
STAIRWELL AND THATS THE ONLY STAIRWELL THAT COULD BE USED BECAUSE AND WERE CLOGGED AND BY THIS TIME EVERYONE IS FILTERING ITS JUST THE TAIL END OF THE PEOPLE THAT GOT TO MEAN THERE WERE PEOPLE ABOVE THAT PROBABLY NEVER HEARD IT STILL WERE FIGHTING THIS FIRE
MONTEL WILLIAMS AND THAT RUMBLE GOT LOUDER
CHIEF PICCIOTTO LOUDER THE RUMBLE GOT LOUDER AND AS YOU SEE IT YOU KNOW DONT KNOW KNOW WHAT FELT KNOWWHAT SAW BUT KNEW IT WAS COMING AND KNEW WAS DEAD AND JUST
SAID PLEASE GOD PLEASE MAKE IT QUICK YOU KNOW WANT TO DIE FAST
MONTEL WILLIAMS BECAUSE THAT BUILDING COLLAPSED WITH YOU AND LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE IN IT CHIEF PICCIOTTO YES
MONTEL WILLIAMS AND MIRACULOUSLY RICH YOU SIT HERE AFTER BEING BURIED FOR FOUR AND HALF HOURS
CHIEF PICCIOTTO WELL YES AND IT WAS MIRACULOUS YES
MONTEL WILLIAMS YOU KNOW THINK HALF OF MY VIEWERS AT HOME AS JUST SAID IT TO YOU RIGHT BEFORE WECAME UP DONT KNOWWHAT WOULD HAVE DONE WOULD HAVE BEEN OUT THERE TRYING TO GET PEOPLE OUT BUT IF HAD BEEN IN THAT STAIRWELL AND THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW STARTED HEARING THAT RUMBLING AGAIN DONT KNOW THE 7TH FLOOR MIGHT HAVE FIGURED OUT SOMEPLACE TO GO JUMP BUT THEN AGAIN DONT KNOWIF THE JUMPING WOULD HAVE DONE YOU ANY GOOD
CHIEF PICCIOTTO THERES NO PLACE TO JUMP
MONTEL WILLIAMS THERE IS NO PLACE TO JUMP
CHIEF PICCIOTTO IT HAPPENED SO QUICK
MONTEL WILLIAMS SO IT DID HAPPEN SO QUICK SO IT HAPPENED SO QUICK NEXT THING YOU HEAR THAT NOISE AND THEN DID SOMETHING HIT YOU IN THE HEAD

11
MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW
CHIEF PICCIOTTO YES SOMETHING HIT ME IN THE HEAD KNOCKED MY HELMET OFF KNOCKED ME DOWN KNOCKED MY HELMET OFF AND TELL PEOPLE THE WORD ILL USE IS WAS ANNOYED WAS SUPER ANNOYED BECAUSE WANTED TO BE DEAD JUST WANTED TO BE DEAD KNEW WAS GOING TO BE DEAD
JUST WANTED IT TO HAPPEN
MONTELWILLIAMS WHENYOU WOKEUP
CHIEF PICCIOTTO EVEN BEFORE THAT GOT UP AND THEN THE LANDING WAS ON JUST GAVE AND THEN FELL AND THATS THE LAST THING REMEMBERUNTIL IM JUST LAYING IN DEBRIS AND BLACK
MONTEL WILLIAMS AND YOU MUST HAVE FALLEN AT LEAST FIVE STORIES POSSIBLY FOUR TO FIVE STORIES CHIEF PICCIOTTO LATER ON FOUND OUT WAS ON THE 3RD FLOOR WHERE THE THIRD FLOOR WAS THERES NO MORE STAIRWELLS WERE IN THE STAIRWELLS BUT THERES NO STAIRS THERES RUBBLE AGAIN TRY TO JUST YOU KNOW LAND ON WAS ANYWHERE FROM TO WHEN IT HAPPENED WE WERE BRINGING UP THE REAR OUR COMPANY WAS WITH THIS WOMAN LIKE SAID HER NAME WAS JOSEPHINE THEY GRABBED HER WEGRABBED HER MEAN WETRIED TO JUST BEAT IT TRYING TO RUN OUT YOU KNOW RUN DOWN FIVE STAIRWAYS SEVEN FLIGHTS BEFORE WAS HIT BUT LITERALLY GOT HIT GOT BANGED WE GOT STEPS
MONTEL WILLIAMS AND YOU WOKE UP ON THE GROUND AND YOU REALIZED MY ARMS ARE HERE MY LEGS ARE HERE CAN FEEL THEM ITS OKAY IM HERE THEN WHAT
CHIEF PICCIOTTO REALLY DONT EVEN KNOW IF WAS KNOCKED OUT THINK WAS JUST STUNNED MOMENTARILY TYPE OF THING DONT KNOW IM COMING TO AND ITS BLACK LOST MY LIGHT LOST MY BULLHORN LOST MY HELMET AND IM JUST COMING TO AND SHORT PERIOD OF TIMELIKE SAID TIME SEQUENCES JUST
NEXT THING REMEMBERANYWAY ITS BLACK SAY IS ANYONE ELSE HERE IS THERE ANYONE ELSE HERE AND IN SHORT TIME YEAH ALMOST LIKE CANT SEE THEM BUT KNOWTHAT HES IM NOT BURIED IM COVERED BUT IM NOT BURIED IM COVERED WITH DEBRIS ALL OVER SO YEAH YEAH IM HERE TOO AND THEN THERES ANOTHER VOICE AND THEN LIKE TWO VOICES BELOW ME INITIALLY AND THEN

12
MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW
VOICE ABOVE ME SO WERE ALL JUST GETTING OUR WITS ABOUT US AND YOU KNOW ANYONE HAVE LIGHT LOT OF FIREMEN THANK GOD YOU KNOW LOT OF GUYS CARRY THEIR LIGHTS IN STRAPS AROUND THEMSELVES
ONE GUY HAD LIGHT SO HE TURNED THE LIGHT ON AND ITS DUSTY AND TREMENDOUS LIKE IF YOU SAW THAT DUST WERE IN IT TALK ABOUT GROUND ZERO THATS IT
MONTEL WILLIAMS BUT RICH HEAR YOU TALK AND KNOWEXACTLY HOWYOU DID THIS NOW HAVING BEEN WITH YOU FOR AN HOUR YOU DIDNT WAKE UP AND SAY IM ENTOMBED YOU DIDNT WAKE UP AND SAY YOU KNOWHOLY YOUKNOWWHAT EXPLETIVE
CHIEF PICCIOTTO MONTEL WILLIAMS CHIEF PICCIOTTO MONTEL WILLIAMS RADIO AND CALL
CHIEF PICCIOTTO
YES DID
GOOD BUT THEN AFTER YOU DID THAT IT WAS STILL BACK ON THE CASE
YES
WHERE ARE THE MEN WHOIS ALIVE WHO IS HERE DID YOU TRY TO USE
YES YES WELL INITIALLY WE TRIED TO FIND OUT WHOWAS THERE FIND OUT WHAT TOOLS LIGHTS YOU KNOW WHOSHERE AND THEN WE STARTED CALLING WE STARTED CALLING NOTHING NO RESPONSE AT ALL KNOWWHAT HAPPENED KNEWTHE FIRST TOWERWENT DOWN KNEW THE SECOND TOWERWENT DOWN
MONTELWILLIAMS AND YOU KNEWYOU WERE IN THE ONE THAT WENT DOWN
CHIEF PICCIOTTO YES
MONTEL WILLIAMS AT THIS MOMENT DOES IT HIT YOU OKAY WAIT MINUTE IM ON THE THIRD FLOOR AND 107 STORIES ARE ON TOP OF ME THERES 107 STORIES AROUND ME
CHIEF PICCIOTTO MONTEL ABOUT TWO MONTHS AGO JUST REAL QUICK STORY TWO MONTHS AGO THREE FIREFIGHTERS IN QUEENS FROM RESCUE WERE IN BUILDING THAT COLLAPSED THEY WERE IN TWOSTORY BUILDING THEY WERE ALIVE IN THE BASEMENT WE HAD RADIO CONTACT DONT KNOWIF YOU REMEMBER BUT THEY HAD THE FUNERALS HARRY FORD THEY WERE IN TWOSTORY BUILDING THAT COLLAPSED AND WE COULDNT GET TO THEM IN TIME WEJUST COULDNT GET TO THEM BECAUSE ITS HAND OPERATION BRICK BY BRICK EVEN THOUGH IM SAFE IN THE DARKNESS KNOWTHAT THERES 100 STORIES 105 STORIES ABOVE

13
MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW
ME DONT WANT TO SOUND LIKE PESSIMIST BUT THERES NO WAY ANYONE IS GOING TO GET TO US MY PRAYER WASNT ANSWERED FOR QUICK DEATH
MONTEL WILLIAMS IM SORRY RICH SO YOURE ENTOMBED AND DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME THAT YOURE THERE YOURE CALLING THROUGH NOBODY IS ANSWERING IT IS DARK IT IS SMOKING THERES
RAY OF LIGHT COMING IN
CHIEF PICCIOTTO
MONTEL WILLIAMS
CHIEFPICCIOTTO
MONTEL WILLIAMS TELL US ABOUT IT HOWMANY PEOPLE DID YOU END UP TOTALLY
CHIEF PICCIOTTO WE WERE IN VOID THATS WHAT WE CALL IT VOID YOU KNOW JUST
EVERYTHING IS FALLING AND THERES LITTLE POCKET WERE NOT ALL TOGETHER BUT WERE IN LITTLE
ELEVEN OF US BELIEVE IT WAS AMAZINGLY ONE WHOLE COMPANY LADDER WHICH DIDNT
AT THE TIME BECAUSE THEY WERE ABOVE ME COULDNT EVEN SEE THEM ALTHOUGH COULD TALK TO THEM BELOW ME THERE WAS AN OFFICER FROM 16 AND FIREMAN FROM ENGINE 39 ALSO THERE WAS
JOSEPHINE THE WOMAN TOLD YOU ABOUT AND THERE WAS PORT AUTHORITY COP BELIEVE HIS NAME
WAS DAVID LIM SOME OF US CAN SEE EACH OTHER SOME OF US CANT BUT WERE IN THIS BASICALLY 2ND
TH
STORY TO STORY ITS NOT OPEN THERES RUBBLE DEBRIS ALL OVER
MONTEL WILLIAMS JUST LITTLE AREA WHERE PEOPLE KIND OF
CHIEF PICCIOTTO RIGHT EXACTLY AND THEN WERE TRYING TO FIND OUT WHOS THERE BASICALLY THE PEOPLE IN OUR VOID WERE BANGED AROUND SEPARATED SHOULDERS CONCUSSIONS BUT NO LIFE
THREATENING INJURIES THERES PEOPLE BELOW US THAT WE CANT GET TO MEAN THERE IS RUBBLE WE JUST CANT GET TO THEM
MONTEL WILLIAMS YOURE STILL THINKING ABOUT GETTING TO PEOPLE AND YOURE STUCK IN VOID CHIEF PICCIOTTO THERES PEOPLE HURT THERES PEOPLE IN TROUBLE BELOW US
MONTEL WILLIAMS AND YOU WERE HURT RICH YOU COULD BARELY SEE RIGHT WHY DONT WE EXPLAIN THE FACT THAT YOUR CORNEAS WERE SCRATCHED BURNED AND YOU WERE STILL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT
NOT YET NOT YET
WISH WISH
POCKET VOID
KNOWTHIS

14
MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW
YOU NEED TO SAVE
CHIEF PICCIOTTO EXCUSE MEJUST FOR MINUTE ITS 28 YEARS YOU KNOW PEOPLE CALL US HEROES
AND ITS ALWAYS LIKE WERE DOING OUR JOB WERE DOING OUR JOB AND WE ARE DOING OURJOB BUT ILL TELL YOU EVERY SINGLE FIREMAN IS HERO
MONTEL WILLIAMS CHIEF PICCIOTTO
MONTEL WILLIAMS
CHIEF PICCIOTTO
MONTELWILLIAMS
THAT ARE DOING THIS BECAUSE THERES LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE OUT HERE WHODONT WANT TO LETS MOVE LITTLE FORWARD SO YOURE IN HERE IN THIS ABYSS AGAIN YOURE TRYING TO CALL OUT NOBODY IS ANSWERING WALKIES ARENT WORKING DID YOU ACTUALLY THINK THAT MAYBE THE COMMAND CENTER WHICH WAS RIGHT OUTSIDE THE BUILDING OR VERY CLOSE COULD HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY DECIMATED
CHIEF PICCIOTTO OH OF COURSE OF COURSE OF COURSE BASICALLY IT HAD TO BE AND IN EFFECT IT
WAS OUR CHIEF OF DEPARTMENT GANCI YOU GO THROUGH THE LIST FATHER JUDGE DIDNT KNOWIT AT
THE TIME BUT THEY WERE ALL WIPED OUT MEAN OUR WHOLE COMMANDSTRUCTURE WAS WIPED OUT AND
THE PEOPLE THAT WERENT AND ALL THE PEOPLE THAT WERE INJURED OUTSIDE AND THERE WERE LOT OF
PEOPLE HURT AND INJURED AND KILLED OUTSIDE THE PEOPLE THAT WERENT ARE HELPING THE PEOPLE THAT WERE SO NO ONE IS LISTENING TO THE HANDIETALKIE THATS OUR RADIOS NO ONE IS LISTENING TO THEM
MONTEL WILLIAMS BUT AGAIN YOURE SITTING THERE YOURE INSIDE THIS ABYSS AND DID YOU NOT THINK OKAY LETS MARSHAL TROOPS HOWDO WE GET OUT OF THIS
CHIEF PICCIOTTO
MONTEL WILLIAMS BUT THEN MY NEXT QUESTION WOULD BE HOWDO WE GET OUT OF THIS IM SITTING UNDER 110 STORIES WORTH OF WHAT MUST BE RUBBLE IF PULL ONE ROCK
CHIEF PICCIOTTO
MONTELWILLIAMS THERES VOID THAT ACTUALLY COULD BE FILLED
ABSOLUTELY
MEAN POLICE OFFICERS EVERYBODY THERE
ABSOLUTELY AND MAYBE YOU DONT WANT TO ACCEPT THE TITLE MEAN WE ARE DOING OURJOB
BUT ACCEPT OURTHANK YOU ACCEPT THE FACT THAT THERE ARE GUYS LIKE YOU
EXACTLY EXACTLY
EXACTLY

15
MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW
CHIEF PICCIOTTO EXACTLY WHAT SAID ONCE EVERYONE STARTED GETTING IT TOLD EVERYONE BECAUSE WE DIDNT SEE ANYONE SAID EVERYONE DONT MOVE STAY WHERE YOU ARE JUST STAY THERE DONT MOVE BECAUSE EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID SECONDARY COLLAPSE COULD HAVE WIPED US OUT IN SECOND LOOK AROUND
LOOK LIKE SAID BEFORE WEFOUND LIGHT AND THEN WEFOUND ANOTHER LIGHT SO LOOK AROUND LOOK AROUND THEN YOU START TAKING YOUR BEARINGS BY ME THERE WAS NOTHING WHEN WERE DOING THE ROLL CALL CALLED ROLL CALL TRYING TO FIND OUT WHO WAS THERE TRUCK LIKE SAID BEFORE IS INTACT THE WHOLE COMPANY YOU KNOW WHOSHERE WHOSHERE SO TWO FLOORS ABOVE ME OR WHEN
SAY TWO DONT SEE THEM BUT HEAR VOICE VERY VERY GOOD FRIEND OF MINE WESTUDIED
TOGETHER JAY JONAS HES THE CAPTAIN OF TRUCK HE WAS PROMOTED YESTERDAY ITS NOT BATTLEFIELD COMMISSION HE WAS ON THE LIST WAITING TO BE PROMOTED DONT KNOWIF YOU SAW THE
PROMOTIONS
MONTEL WILLIAMS
CHIEF PICCIOTTO
MONTEL WILLIAMS
CHIEF PICCIOTTO HEAR HIS VOICE JAY ITS ME NOWWERE HAVING CONVERSATION STAY WHERE YOU ARE LOOK AROUND LET ME KNOWWHAT YOU HAVE UP THERE BECAUSE HES UP
HAVE LIGHT NOWAND LOOK DOWNAND THERES COUPLE OF GUYS DOWNTHERE DONT EVEN KNOW DID MENTION WITH THE RADIOS THAT HEARD THE GUYS DONT KNOWWHAT SAID WHAT DIDNT SAY MONTEL WILLIAMS ORIGINALLY YOU SAID THE WALKIES DIDNT WORK SO YOU NOWTHEY STARTED WORKING IN CLOSE PROXIMITY
CHIEF PICCIOTTO OKAY ILL GET TO THAT IN SECOND
MONTEL WILLIAMS SURE
SURE
HE WAS PROMOTED YESTERDAY YOU HEARD HIM

16
MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW
CHIEF PICCIOTTO OUR FIRST THING IS WERE CALLING WERE GETTING NO ONE THERES DOOR DOWN THERE CAN SEE DOOR ITS INTACT THERES RUBBLE DONT KNOW FOOT 18 INCHES HIGH BUT ITS MOVABLE RUBBLE SO TELL THE GUYS LETS MOVE THAT LETS FORCE THAT DOOR MAYBE ITS WAY OUT
WE GET TOOL FROM UP ABOVE AND WE START WORKING ON THIS DOOR TELL THEM TO STAY THERE CLIMBED DOWN TO THEM AND WE WORK ON THIS DOOR WE GET THE DOOR OPEN AND ITS JUST NOTHING ITS
JUST WHEN SAY NOTHING ITS EVERYTHING YOU KNOWITS ALL RUBBLE DEBRIS WERENOT GETTING OUT THAT WAY SO CALL UP TO JAY JAY ANY WAY OUT UP BY YOU HE SAYS DONT THINK SO HE LOOKS AROUND THERE IS NOTHING SO WERE IN HERE FOR LONG HAUL WHEN HIT ONE CHANNEL IM HEARING VOICE CALLING MAYDAYS ALSO AND HES HURT THINK SAID THAT
MONTEL WILLIAMS YES
CHIEF PICCIOTTO SO EVERY TIME IM GOING THROUGH AND HIT THAT CHANNEL IM TRYING TO CALM HIM DOWN BECAUSE KNOW HES NOT GOOD AND JUST EVERY TIME HIT THAT CHANNEL TALK TO HIM FOR
MINUTE CALM DOWNDONT CALL ANYMORE WELL CALL HE WANTS ME TO COME GET HIM ITS IMPOSSIBLE
FOR ME TO COME GET HIM BUT DONT WANT HIM TALKING
MONTEL WILLIAMS
CHIEF PICCIOTTO HES CONFIRMED HES ONE OF THE CONFIRMED THEY RECOVERED HIS BODY
DONT WANT TO SAY THE NAME
MONTEL WILLIAMS SURE BECAUSE YOU JUST COULDNT GET TO HIM
CHIEF PICCIOTTO SO IM DOING THE MAYDAYS AND FINALLY AT ONE POINT SOMEONE ANSWERS ME BUT THEN IT GOES AWAY DONT HEAR HIM ABOUT HALF HOURLATER IM GOING AGAIN THROUGHCHANNELS AND ANOTHER VOICE ANSWERS ME THE FIRE DEPARTMENT IS VERY SMALL COMMUNITY ESPECIALLY THE CHIEFS RANK EVERY CHIEF JUST ABOUT KNOWS EVERY OTHER CHIEF GUY ANSWERS ME 12TH BATTALION
THE UPPER EAST SIDE RECOGNIZE THE VOICE ITS GUY CONSIDER FRIEND OF MINE GOOD FRIEND NOW MARK FORAN
MARK THIS IS RICHIE WERE DOWNHERE WERE TRAPPED GIVE HIM ALL THE PARTICULARS AND HEAR HIM TALKING TO SOMEONE ELSE WHO ALSO KNOWBUT CANT HEAR HIM RESPONDING SO IM HEARING
RIGHT

17
MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW
ONEWAYCONVERSATION AND HEAR MARK TALKING AND HE SAYS GOT COMPANY LADDER 43 HE TELLS PAT MCNALLY PAT GOT 43 IM GOING TO GET RICHIE AND COULD HEAR THE DETERMINATION IN HIS
VOICE YOU KNOW THEY KNOW WERE HERE AND THEYRE COMING FOR US MONTEL WILLIAMS RIGHT THERE YOU MUST HAVE
CHIEF PICCIOTTO
ALSO KNOWTHERES 105 STORIES ON TOP OF US SAID EVEN IF THEY GET RIGHT ON TOP OF US
MONTEL WILLIAMS WEEKS
CHIEF PICCIOTTO YOU KNOW THEYRE NOT GOING TO GET TO US
MONTEL WILLIAMS PLEASE WELCOME BACK THE BATTALION CHIEF OF BATTALION 11 THE 11TH BATTALION OF NEWYORK CITYS FIRE DEPARTMENT MR RICH PICCIOTTO TO THE SHOW
YOU KNOWYESTERDAY WHENWEFINISHED TALKING AND THINK NOWALL OF AMERICA IS SITTING ON PINS AND NEEDLES WAITING TO HEAR HOW COME YOURE SITTING HERE COUPLE HOURS BURIED UNDER 105 STORIES DID IT FLASH AT YOU THAT MAYBE YOUR WISH YOU HAD OF GOING QUICKLY
CHIEF PICCIOTTO YES WITHOUT DOUBT IM THINKING ITS JUST PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO GET
TO US EVEN THOUGH WERE ALIVE ITS PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO GET TO US ONE OF MY BEST FRIENDS GUY KNOWFOR YEARS JAY JONAS WESTILL HAVENT SEEN EACH OTHER BUT WERE IN VOICE CONTACT AND HE HAS HIS WHOLE COMPANY UP THERE YOU KNOW LITTLE BIT SEE COUPLE OF HIS GUYS BUT DONT SEE HIM YET BUT WERE IN VOICE CONTACT AND WERE EXAMINING OUR OPTIONS WE DIDNT HAVE MANY OPTIONS BUT WERE LOOKING YOU KNOWWHAT COULD WE DO WHAT COULD WE DO
AND WE COULD DO NOTHING EXCEPT CALL ON THE RADIO AND CONTACTED AGAIN OR HE CONTACTED ME MARK FORAN BATTALION CHIEF AND HE WAS COMING TO GET US AND TWO HOURS TWO AND HALF HOURS
IM LAYING ON MY BACK CANT LOOK UP BECAUSE OF THE LIGHTS BUT IM LAYING ON MY BACK AND ITS
BLACK BECAUSE WERE TRYING TO CONSERVE AND ALL OF SUDDEN THINK ITS AN OPTICAL ILLUSION SEE LITTLE BIT OF LIGHT THINK IM HALLUCINATING AND YELL TO JAY JAY DO YOU SEE THAT AND WERE ALL
GOING THROUGH THE SAME THING SO ALL OF SUDDEN YEAH YEAH SO SAY WHAT IS IT AND AS WERE LOOKING AT IT WEREJUST STARING AT IT ITS GETTING BRIGHTER AND BRIGHTER
IT WAS REASSURING BUT ALSO MY MIND IS RACING THOUSAND MILES MINUTE

18
MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW
WHAT IT WAS WAS SMALL OPENING BUT ALL THAT DUST THAT BIG CLOUD OF DUST THAT EVERYONE SEES THAT HUNG THERE AND THE SMOKE BECAUSE THE BUILDINGS WERE ON FIRE THERE WAS SMALL OPENING BUT THE DUST AND THE DIRT AND THE SMOKE WAS OBSCURING IT IT WAS BLACK FOR HOURS BUT NOWALL OF SUDDEN
MONTEL WILLIAMS IT STARTS TO CLEAR
CHIEF PICCIOTTO THE LIGHT SHINES MEAN THIS IS LIKE MOVIE BUT ITS THE TRUTH SAY JAY YOU KNOW CALL TO JAY JAY DO YOU THINK YOU COULD GET TO THAT AND HIS GUYS ARE BANGED UP
BUT NOW IM YELLING TO MARK MARK CAN SEE LIGHT CAN SEE LIGHT IM SHINING MY LIGHT OUT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER IS 16ACRE COMPLEX DURING THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY IM SHINING FLASHLIGHT OUT WINDOW NO ONE IS GOING TO SEE THAT BUT MY MIND IS GOING SAY GREAT TEN HOURS FROM NOW ITS GOING TO BE DARK OR EIGHT HOURS WHATEVER ITS GOING TO BE DONT KNOWWHAT TIME IT IS
ITS GOING TO BE DARK AND THEN THEYLL SEE THAT LIGHT SO WERE SAVED YOU KNOWITS JUST MATTER OF TIME BUT THEYRE GOING TO GET TO US
MONTEL WILLIAMS SO RICH THE LIGHT IS SHINING THROUGH YOUVE NOTIFIED PEOPLE ON THE
OUTSIDE THAT YOU WERE AT LEAST SEEING LIGHT SO THEY ARE PROBABLY FEELING LITTLE BIT BETTER AND THINKING THAT OKAY WE HAVE MEN DOWNBUT THERE HAS GOT TO BE WAY TO GET TO THEM OR WHAT DID THEY SAY TO YOU
CHIEF PICCIOTTO IM NOTIFYING ONE PERSON LOT OF PEOPLE ARENT HEARING THIS SO START CLIMBING UP AND WHEN GET TO THAT LIGHT GET OUT THAT AND THEN IT OPENS UP TO LOT MEAN
IM LOOKING OUT ON THE RUBBLE FIELD IM LOOKING OUT AT BIG AREA ALMOST THE SIZE OF FOOTBALL FIELD
AND HALLELUJAH WERE OUT OF HERE MEAN GOT HURT PEOPLE YOU KNOW SO CALLED JAY UP JAY
GET UP HERE YOUVE GOT TO GET UP HERE YOU KNOWWERE OUT WERE OUT
WEREOUT BUT IF YOU LOOKED AT IT IT JUST LOOKS LIKE PILE OF RUBBLE THERES PILES OF RUBBLE ALL OVER
THE PLACE WEREJUST PILE OF RUBBLE BUT WERE IN THIS PILE YOU KNOW THERES PILES ALL OVER THE
PLACE FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE RUBBLE FIELD WERE ABOUT YOU KNOW ITS GUESSTIMATE 30 40 FEET HIGH SO NOW BRING MY SIREN UP AGAIN MY BULLHORN MARK IM OUT LISTEN TO THIS LISTEN SO HE HEARS IT SAID COME GET US

19
MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW
FIFTEEN MINUTES LATER NO ONE IS THERE OVER AN HOUR HOUR AND HALF LATER WERE IN CONTACT AND MEAN COULD SEE AN AREA LIKE SAID THE SIZE OF FOOTBALL FIELD
MONTEL WILLIAMS AND NOBODY COMES
CHIEF PICCIOTTO AND NOT
SINGLE PERSON MONTEL WILLIAMS WHEN DO THEY FINALLY GET TO YOU
CHIEF PICCIOTTO MARK AND 43 TRUCK GO THROUGH DONT KNOWIF IT WAS OR WORLD TRADE CENTER BUILDING THAT ALSO PARTIALLY COLLAPSED BUT WAS BURNING NOWTHERES NO LINES ON THIS BUILDING NOTHING TO PUT THE FIRE OUT BUT THEYRE COMING THROUGH THE BUILDING TO GET TO US
FINALLY ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE RUBBLE FIELD SEE ONE GUY AND YOU KNOWIM ECSTATIC
BUT CLIMBED DOWN IT TAKES LONG TIME AND EVENTUALLY GET TO THE RUBBLE FIELD LIKE SAID THE
BUILDING THAT THEY CAME THROUGH IS ON FIRE THEYRE GETTING CALLED BACK YOUVE GOT TO GET BACK NOW OR WERE NOT GOING TO GET THROUGH THE GUYS GO FEW MINUTES LATER THEY COME BACK WE CANT GET BACK THAT WAY THE WAY THEY CAME THEY CANT GET BACK
THE EXPRESSION OUT OF THE FRYING PAN INTO THE FIRE THAT BUILDING THE FIRE IS INTENSIFYING OUT IN THE OPEN BUT ACRID SMOKE IS HITTING US
WERE
MONTEL WILLIAMS HEAT
CHIEF PICCIOTTO BURNING MY EYES THE DOCTOR TOLD ME THAT THERES BURNS LIKE PEPPERED THERES LITTLE HOLES BURNT INTO THE CORNEA HE SAYS ITS GOING TO BE FINE ITS JUST MATTER OF TIME MONTEL WILLIAMS YOUR WIFE IS HERE DEBBIE COME UP HERE
WEREGOING TO WELCOME DEBBIE TO THE SHOW YOU CAN HAVE MY SEAT HAVE MY SEAT THIS IS DEBBIE PICCIOTTO WHO IS RICHS WIFE GUYS GIVE IT UP
APPLAUSE
MONTELWILLIAMS DEBBIE THIS ENTIRE TIME THIS IS HAPPENING YOU KNOWTHIS MAN
DEBBIE PICCIOTTO YES
MONTEL WILLIAMS SO YOU KNOWHES GOING TO BE ONE OF THE GUYS THAT WENT RUNNING DOWN
THERE AS SOON AS HE FOUND OUT SOMETHING WAS WRONG

20
MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW
DEBBIE PICCIOTTO ACTUALLY THERES GOT TO BE SOMETHING WRONG WITH ME AFTER 28 YEARS OF HIM BEING ON THE FIRE DEPARTMENT HAVE LIKE THIS BLOCK AND DONT THINK OF HIM FIGHTING FIRES DONT KNOWWHETHER ITS PROTECTIVE MECHANISM OR WHAT THINK OF HIM GOING IN AND BEING WITH HIS MEN AND THEYRE ALL FRIENDS AND IM WORRIED ABOUT MYDAUGHTER WHOGOES TO PACE DOWNTHERE DONT WORRY ABOUT HIM THINK THAT HES NOT GOING TO BE THERE FOR WHILE DIDNT THINK THAT HE WOULD BE THERE THAT SOON SO DIDNT KNOWTHAT HE WAS TRAPPED
MONTEL WILLIAMS DID YOU TRY TO CALL HIM
DEBBIE PICCIOTTO NO
MONTEL WILLIAMS SO DURING THAT WHOLE FOUR HOUR PERIOD OF TIME DEBBIE PICCIOTTO KEPT SAYING TO MYSELF
MONTEL WILLIAMS YOURE CALLING YOUR DAUGHTER
DEBBIE PICCIOTTO WAS TRYING TO CALL HER SAID HE MUST BE VERY BUSY HES DIRECTING
PEOPLE DONT EXPECT TO HEAR FROM HIM AND SHE CALLED ME AND SAID DADDYS DOWN THERE AND SAID NO LISA HES VERY BUSY THATS WHY HE HASNT CALLED US YOU KNOW DADDYS FINE BUT HE WASNT
MONTEL WILLIAMS WOULD SAY KNOWYOU GUYS ALREADY RECOGNIZE HIM AS THE HERO THAT HE IS DO YOU NOT
DEBBIE PICCIOTTO HES UNBELIEVABLE HADNT BEEN ABLE TO REALLY LISTEN TO THE STORY START
TO FINISH UNTIL ABOUT FIVE DAYS AFTERWARDS BECAUSE JUST KEPT GETTING UP AND LEAVING COULDNT BELIEVE WHAT HE WENT THROUGH HES DEFINITELY AN UNBELIEVABLE HERO
MONTELWILLIAMS PLEASE WELCOMERICHS FAMILY HIS WIFE DEBBIE AND HIS CHILDREN LISA AND STEVEN TO THE SHOW LISA YOU CONTACTED YOURDAD RIGHT OR HOWDID THAT HAPPEN
LISA PICCIOTTO NO WHAT HAPPENED WAS GO TO PACE UNIVERSITY SO WAS DOWN THERE TOO AND ONE OF MY ROOMMATES HER FATHER IS ALSO FIREMAN SHE HEARD FROM HER FATHER AND DIDNT
HEAR FROM MY FATHER SO WAS JUST WAITING AND WAS EVACUATED AND WAS PUT ON BOAT TO STATEN ISLAND SO WAS IN STATEN ISLAND SO DIDNT HEAR

21
MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW
MONTEL WILLIAMS BUT FOR YOU JUST LIKE YOUR MOM MEAN HES BATTALION CHIEF YOU PROBABLY THOUGHT IN THE BACK OF YOUR MIND WELL HES JUST BUSY HES JUST BUSY OR DID YOU THINK THERE WAS SOMETHING WRONG
LISA PICCIOTTO THERE WAS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT HE WAS THERE DIDNT KNOWTO THE EXTENT THAT HE WAS THERE BUT KNEW HE WAS THERE AND TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST THOUGHT HE WAS THE FIRST GUY THERE BECAUSE THATS JUST THE PERSONALITY THAT HE IS
MONTEL WILLIAMS SO THEREFORE WHEN YOU SAW THE IMAGE OF THAT BUILDING COMING DOWNWHAT DID YOU THINK
CHIEF PICCIOTTO NOT THE IMAGE
MONTEL WILLIAMS YOU WERE THERE AND SAW IT
LISA PICCIOTTO WAS THERE
CHIEF PICCIOTTO SHE SAW THE SECOND PLANE HIT AND SAW BOTH BUILDINGS COME DOWN LIVE
LISA PICCIOTTO RIGHT THINK THAT MY SCARIEST THING IS WHEN SAW ON THE NEWS THEY SAID 200PLUS FIREMEN ARE MISSING THATS WHEN JUST LOST IT
MONTEL WILLIAMS IS THAT WHEN IT HIT YOU TOO STEVEN
STEVEN PICCIOTTO WELL GOT SENT HOME FROM SCHOOL AND DIDNT KNOWWHAT WAS GOING ON AND MY MOMWAS AT WORK SO WE WERE ALL IN DIFFERENT PLACES NONE OF US WERE TOGETHER AND
WAS THE FIRST TO FIND OUT EVERYTHING SOMEONE CAME TO THE DOOR AND SAID THAT YOUR FATHER IS OUT AND HES OKAY AND HE DIDNT KNOWANYTHING ELSE SO WAS LIKE WELL WHAT DO YOU MEAN HES OUT HES OUT OF WHAT WHAT HAPPENED AND HES LIKE WELL DONT KNOWTHE STORY AND THIS IS AT LIKE 330 345 AND HES BEEN TRAPPED SINCE 900 OCLOCK SO WE KNEW NOTHING FOR THAT LONG AND
GOT PHONE CALL FROM MRS JONAS AND SHE TOLD ME THE WHOLE STORY
CHIEF PICCIOTTO THATS JAY THE GUY WASWITH
STEVEN PICCIOTTO SHE TOLD ME THE WHOLE STORY AND THEN CALLED MY MOMAT WORK AND TOLD
HER

22
MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW
MONTEL WILLIAMS THATS WHEN YOU FIRST FOUND OUT ABOUT IT
DEBBIE PICCIOTTO THATS WHEN LOST IT
STEVEN PICCIOTTO THATS WHEN SHE FIRST FOUND OUT
LISA PICCIOTTO SO IM ON STATEN ISLAND AND STILL DONT KNOWBECAUSE IM TAKING THE FERRY OVER
CHIEF PICCIOTTO YOUVE GOT TO ASK HER WHAT SHE DID BEFORE SHE WENT BECAUSE IM VERY PROUD OF HER
MONTEL WILLIAMS WHAT DID YOU DO BEFORE YOU WENT OUT OF STATEN ISLAND
LISA PICCIOTTO WELL THE THING IS BEFORE WE WERE ABLE TO GET OUT OF STATEN ISLAND WE WERE SO ANTSY WE HAD TO DO SOMETHING SO MY ROOMMATESAND WEWANTED TO GO DONATE BLOOD BUT THE LINE WAS JUST PHENOMENAL ALREADY AND DOWNTOWNWAS BEING TOTALLY EVACUATED SO THEY KIND OF TURNED US AWAY AND THATS WHEN WEWERE PUSHED ON THE FERRY BOATS
MONTEL WILLIAMS YOU WENT AHEAD AND DONATED BLOOD LATER
LISA PICCIOTTO YES
MONTEL WILLIAMS ABSOLUTELY IT IS MIRACLE THAT HE IS HERE BUT WOULD VENTURE TO SAY
AMERICA NOW REALIZES THE HERO THAT HE WAS AND IS THINK RICH JUST YOUR COMING UP OUT OF THAT HOLE IS WHAT INSPIRED SO MANY PEOPLE TO KEEP WORKING SO HARD BECAUSE THEY REALIZED THERE
IS SURVIVOR SOMEBODY SURVIVED AND WOULD SAY THATS THE DOUBLE PIECE TO YOUR BEING HERO BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE DOWNTHERE WORKING SO HARD
DEBBIE PICCIOTTO SO HARD
MONTEL WILLIAMS JUST BECAUSE THEY SAW YOU
CHIEF PICCIOTTO YES AND WENT TO VISIT YOU KNOW LOST GUYS IN MY COMPANY LOST
GUYS CANT GO TO WORK BECAUSE OF MY EYES SO HAD TO DO SOMETHING SO IM GOING TO VISIT THESE WIVES AND ALL THE WIVES OUT THERE IM TRYING TO GIVE THEM HOPE YOU KNOW SURVIVED BUT REALISTICALLY YOU KNOWAT THIS POINT YOU KNOWTHERES STILL HOPE THERES HOPE BUT WANT PEOPLE TO BE REALISTIC THAT ITS VERY SLIM BUT YOU HAVE TO HELP THESE WIVES NOW THEY NEED HELP
File No. 9110212
 WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
DEPUTY CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER DAVID PREZANT
    Interview Date:  November 14, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
D. PREZANT
2
          MS. ROM:  Today's date is November 14, 2001.
The time now is 1608 hours.  We're here to conduct a
World Trade Center interview with Dr. David Prezant,
Deputy Chief Medical Officer of the New York City Fire
Department.  We are located right now in 9 Metrotech on
the second floor in the BHS conference room.
     Q.   Dr. Prezant, what I'd like you to do is if
you could tell me how you first learned about the World
Trade Center disaster and we'll take it from there.
     A.   I was at home doing some paperwork earlier
that morning and on the TV heard that the World Trade
Center had been hit by the first plane and then
actually saw on TV that it was hit by a second plane.
One of my roles as Deputy Chief Medical Officer is to
respond to all major incidents where firefighters may
be injured in a life-threatening manner and, of course,
to assist EMS during major civilian operations.
          So I immediately got into the car and drove
down.  I approached the area from the West Side Highway
going south and came to the site and parked on West
Street several blocks north.  I would say, maybe four
or five blocks north of where the command center was at
that time.  I then walked in my civilian clothes to the
command center, which at the time was on West Street
D. PREZANT
3
across the street from the World Trade Center.  I guess
across the street from the north building, roughly, by
that underground garage where they evacuated to when
the first tower collapsed.
          I reported to the command center.  I told
them that I was there.  At the time I saw Chief Ganci
and Commissioner Feehan.  I believe I saw the Fire
Commissioner's Assistant, Captain Goldbach.  I'm not a
hundred percent certain of that.  I saw Commissioner
Fitzpatrick there.  I saw several EMS Chiefs.
          After about five or so minutes, I realized
that I was not being of any help to anybody.  At that
time no firefighters had been injured.  The building
had not collapsed.  I remember overhearing several
Chiefs saying that a collapse was not possible.  I then
volunteered to the EMS Chiefs that I could be useful in
helping them.
          So the EMS Chiefs -- I forget his name.  I
can't remember whether it was Chief Gombo or Chief
Goldfarb.  I can't remember.  They suggested that I
report to Chief Welch, who was immediately outside the
south tower on West Street, and set up another EMS
triage site for civilians and firefighters that would
be coming out of that tower.
D. PREZANT
4
          I reported there.  It was only a matter of
walking about a block and crossing the street.  I
remember both during the time of walking towards the
command center and then walking from the command center
to my new area of assignment occasional noise from
falling debris.  One of these occasional sort of minor
noises from falling debris wound up being a civilian.
A Fire Marshal who was next to me remarked to me do you
hear that particular thud?  That's the thud people
make.  That's the noise people make when people hit the
sidewalk.  That directed my attention a little bit more
that some of this debris might be people.  I saw one or
two people hit the sidewalk, obviously dead, nothing to
do for them, so I did not direct my attention towards
them.
          I continued to walk towards the south tower.
I was immediately outside the south tower on West
Street when Chief Welch -- it could be Chief Wells.
I'm not certain how to spell or pronounce his name.
     Q.   What did he look like?
     A.   An older gentleman, about my size or a little
bit taller.  He knows that I was there, so if he is
interviewed, he would know my name.  It's a personality
problem I have with names.  But I believe it's Chief
D. PREZANT
5
Wells.  Gray hair, cut short, I believe.  He was in
full EMS uniform, so it was hard to tell.
          But he remarked to approximately six
ambulances, most of them not New York City ambulances,
that they should empty out their equipment and we would
all walk to the middle of the West Street area, which
is, as you know, approximately a six- to eight-lane
street.  So we were on the lane almost right near the
sidewalk outside the south tower, and he said let's
walk to the middle of the street.  We'll get all of the
ambulance equipment together.  We'll pool it.  I'm
Chief Wells.  I'm in charge of the EMS operation here.
Dr. Prezant is in charge of the medical operation for
this triage area.
          As they were getting their stuff ready and we
were all sort of walking very slowly to the middle of
the street, I noticed that everybody in front of me all
of a sudden started to run away from the south tower.
We were not looking at the south tower.  We were
looking towards the river now because we were walking
to the middle of the street.  But everybody in front of
me all of a sudden started to run.  I remember the
first thought in my mind was what a bunch of wimps.
What are they running from?  There's been a little bit
D. PREZANT
6
of noise ever since we've gotten here and there will be
a little bit more noise and a little bit more debris
and we've got a job to do.
          But within seconds, they were running and I
started to run.  To this day, no matter how I stretch
my mind and no matter how many firefighters I talk to,
what I think most about is a universal concept that
there was not a lot of noise with this collapse.  A
little bit of noise.  I don't know why that is.  Maybe
because it imploded inwards.  Maybe because the noise
was dampened by other buildings around it.  It was not
a lot of noise.  It was enough noise for all of these
people to start running, but not enough noise for me to
be all that concerned.  I have to say I ran because
they ran.
     Q.   Who were you with when you first started to
run?
     A.   This group of EMS people that were setting up
this triage area.
     Q.   Do you remember their names?
     A.   No.  And I wouldn't because I would never
know any of those people.  Those were non-New York City
Fire.  They were volunteer ambulances or non-911 or
private ambulances from hospitals and I can't remember
D. PREZANT
7
which hospitals.
     Q.   And you began to run in which direction?
     A.   So we ran away from the tower towards the
river.  We continued to run in the direction we had
been walking in, away from the tower, across West
Street towards the Hudson River.  As we were running, I
started to get hit by debris.  I was hit time and time
again by debris.  A lot of debris fell on my head, on
my back, on my legs, on my right leg, right knee and
left hip.
          As I was running, my goal now was to get
across the street and to get underneath the most
southern pedestrian bridge.  There were three bridges
that crossed West Street, one of them very north and
then two of them right near the towers.  On your map
you only show the two that are near the towers.  It was
the most southern bridge, so I was outside of what you
call here...
          (Pause.)
     A.   I was on the corner originally of Liberty and
West Street, not on Liberty but on West Street itself,
right outside the World Trade Center buildings, the
southern tower.  Then I ran underneath that pedestrian
bridge.  By the time I was knocked to the ground, I was
D. PREZANT
8
nearly entirely across West Street and I was under the
pedestrian bridge, but I had not gotten past the
street.  I was still on the street itself.
          I was completely prone, lying down with stuff
still falling on me.  Some thoughts came to my mind,
perhaps as I was running, perhaps when I was finally
lying down flat.  The first thought was that I had come
here to help people and I had helped absolutely no one
yet and what a complete, total waste of my time to get
killed here.  The second thought was that I wondered
whether my wife would know whether I was here or
whether anyone would know that I was here to find me.
The third thought was that it was taking a long time to
die and there was a possibility that I was not going to
die and what I should do is to emulate firefighters.
          I should digress for a moment to say that I'm
not a firefighter.  I have no experience with
collapses.  I'm not a mind worker, anything like that.
But as a medical officer here, I often talk to
firefighters and I speak to them about their smoke
inhalation events.
          Somehow, in the back of my mind, I have heard
firefighters say that you really have to find an air
pocket and that's a main goal.  So I had this crazy
D. PREZANT
9
idea that I should create an air pocket and that, if
I'm lying completely flat, there is no air pocket.  So
I used all of my strength to get up on my hands and
knees in a sort of doggy position.  I had this crazy
thought, like I was saying, that underneath me in this
area that I was protecting in this doggy position would
be a pocket of air that I could then breathe off of.
          Now, thinking back, this was a pretty stupid
idea because construction material would be filling in
that pocket, but that's the thought I had at the time.
          So I worked to get into that position and
things were still falling and I struggled to maintain
that position.  Then ultimately the collapse stopped
and I was buried completely in construction material.
Now my goal was to, obviously, get out of this
position.
          Unknown to me while this was happening but
now obvious to me is that there were two large plywood
sheets that had created a sort of roof above me.  I was
coughing tremendously.  I was gagging.  There was all
sorts of particulate matter in my throat and in my eyes
and my eyes were burning.  My throat was burning.  I
was coughing.  I was choking.
          Then I felt or saw or pushed these two
D. PREZANT
10
plywood boards.  Luckily, by moving them, I actually
really did not have to spend much time digging myself
out because by moving those two plywood boards I was
able to have enough space so that I could get out of
this debris and I could stand up.  I was surprised that
I could stand up.  My right leg was hurting me a lot;
my left leg a little bit.  I had a lot of minor bruises
on my back that were bothering me.  I had like some
bumps on the back of my head that I sort of felt.
          But the main thing was that, when I got up,
it was completely black.  It was blacker than
midnight.  I could not see the sky.  The air was like
syrupy charcoal paste.  Again, coughing, gagging, eyes
irritating, hard to breathe, and the only thing that I
could think of at the time that could explain this was
that I was still buried.  I felt that the street had
not collapsed underneath me, so I knew I wasn't
subterranean.  But I felt that the only way that all
this particulate matter could be creating this total
blackness is that a roof had been created, so that
maybe the collapse had created a tunnel above ground, a
sort of mine structure above ground.
          So I had one goal now, which was to walk in
the opposite direction of the Trade Center, to walk
D. PREZANT
11
downtown.  I had not lost my orientation.  I knew when
I stood up that, although I couldn't see, I knew that
to the left of me was downtown and to the right of me
would be north and behind me would be the World Trade
Center and in front of me would be the Hudson River.  I
had a full sense of that orientation.
     Q.   Were there other persons around you?
     A.   I'll get to that.
          So I got out of some more debris, I started
walking, and my goal was that I would walk downtown,
walk away from this area and get to wherever this
tunnel ended and then I would start digging and making
noise.  I was 100 percent convinced that, if I made
enough noise, firefighters would come and rescue me.
          While walking, almost immediately after
standing up and walking a few feet, I came across
several individuals.  I came across an EMT who was a
New York City Fire Department EMT.  I don't know his
name.  But he knows me and he's seen me since then and
has remarked that we survived this.  We found to the
left of us a civilian with a broken leg.  To the left
of us would be a little bit towards the tower; to the
right of us would be a little bit towards the river.
To the right of us was a civilian with apparently an
D. PREZANT
12
injured arm.
          Both of these people we found by accident.
I'm not trying to say that we did anything heroic.  It
was we found them.  We tripped over them practically.
We offered them the assistance of helping to stand them
up and to evacuate as a group rather than as
individuals.  So we focused their attention on
following us and we helped them, certainly the broken
leg guy to walk, but it was not our goal to rescue
these people and it was not an act of heroism to rescue
them.  It was rather, we were walking out; we might as
well take them with us.
          We then came across, as we walked maybe a
half a block or so, a hysterical civilian, an
overweight woman, I think she was African-American,
crying, screaming, wanting to sit down on one of the
concrete embankments on the side of West Street that's
closest to the river.  Again, not doing anything heroic
 -- someone else might have stopped and comforted her
 -- I had my typical approach to her, which actually
worked, but not to any credit of my own.  I told her
that she has one choice; she can get up and follow us
or we're going to leave her behind.  We had to remind
her of her one choice on several occasions, but she
D. PREZANT
13
complied.  As a group, myself, the EMT, the two
civilians plus this third hysterical civilian, we were
able to walk several blocks down West Street towards
what would be the ferry.
          Within a block or two walking, we came across
a supervisory Fire Marshal.  Again, I don't know his
name.  He remarked that he had survived by jumping
underneath a car and that the car had been completely
flattened, but he was able to crawl out.  So now this
group of three civilians, one EMT, one Fire Marshal and
myself, we continued to walk.  I was still under the
concept that we would walk and make noise and
firefighters would rescue us.
          I can't tell you how many minutes.  It
certainly wasn't hours.  It certainly wasn't 20
minutes.  It was minutes.  I can't tell you how many
blocks.  It wasn't ten blocks.  I can't tell you the
blocks.  Two?  Four?  The black sky that I had only
envisioned could be possible with a mine or a tunnel
that had been created, the black sky became gray, and
as we continued to walk it became less gray.  It never
turned to white, but it became gray, and it became
obvious for the first time that we were never in a
tunnel, a mine; that this blackness was just by the
D. PREZANT
14
collapse.  It was that thick of particulate matter.
          I haven't seen any videotapes on TV or any
videotapes that the Fire Department has that have
captured that.  The videotapes show that gray cloud;
sometimes it looks like a whitish-gray cloud.  But if
you were there, you saw that it was completely black.
I saw one videotape that some doctor took on CNN.  I
don't know why any doctor would have a video camera
with him, so I've always wondered about that.  But
anyway, there's a moment in that videotape where it
goes black and you sort of think he dropped the
camera.  But having been there I know that, if you
stayed at ground zero, you were completely covered in
an area that looked black.
          That's important to me as a lung physician,
knowing what I inhaled, how it affected me and how it
affected the members.  If I can take anything positive
out of this experience, it was being able to experience
it firsthand and survive.
          Anyway, we continued to walk down West Street
and about halfway between -- and this is just an
approximation, but about halfway between the collapse
and the South Ferry, we came upon a mobile command
unit, Fire Department, and they I believe had
D. PREZANT
15
approached from Brooklyn.  None of their phones
worked.  Their radio barely worked with headquarters
but not with any of the other command centers.  I was
convinced the entire command center was dead and was
very worried that I would be one of the more ranking
Fire officials left because I have no fire experience
whatsoever and wouldn't know what to do or what to tell
anyone.
          But I did have good enough sense that this
mobile command center should not sit where it was.  So
I directed them to follow us.  Some of us got in; some
of us continued to walk.  I believe I continued to
walk.  We went down to the ferry hoping that we would
meet other people.
          We did meet other firefighters and officers,
one fire officer, a captain.  Again, I don't know his
name and never will.
     Q.   Can you describe him?
     A.   No.  Older gentleman.  I really can't
describe him.  But he had grouped together maybe ten or
20 firefighters and told them that they would get
whatever tools they could find and they were going to
progress up West Street and find whatever they could
and start to dig, and I thought that that showed a
D. PREZANT
16
great command presence.
          He went and did his work.  I stayed with the
command center.  Then civilians were all around the
South Ferry area.  Everybody was coughing, gagging,
irritating, trying to get some water, rinse this out,
rinse that out.
          Then, from another direction, I can't
remember where, Chief Nigro, Chief of Operations at the
time, who we would find out later was the surviving
highest-ranking Fire officer, approached this area.  I
can't begin to tell you the sense of total relief
knowing that a high-ranking Fire officer had survived
and that somebody would know what type of commands to
give and what to do.
          I also saw Dr. Kelly approaching.  I can't
remember whether she came with Chief Nigro or whether I
saw her at the same time.  There was a captain with
her.
     Q.   They were approaching from what direction?
     A.   I can't really remember.  I can't remember.
It was great to see Dr. Kelly and find out that she had
survived.  I had not known that she was even there at
the time because I had not seen her when I was at the
command center.  I had not seen Chief Nigro at the
D. PREZANT
17
command center.  He had not been at the command
center.  He had been at the peripheral command center
or had been walking around.  I think he told me later
he was walking around the towers to see it from another
angle.
          So once Chief Nigro was there, obviously,
he's in command.  He knew what to do.  He told us that
we would walk back to the Trade Center.  He directed
the mobile command center to go in whatever direction
he told them to go in because their phones were still
not working and their radio was barely working.  We
walked, Dr. Kelly, myself, Chief Nigro, his aide and
the captain that had helped Dr. Kelly.  We all walked
uptown but not up West Street.  We walked sort of
towards the Brooklyn Bridge a little bit and then made
a left and walked sort of almost up Broadway.  In fact,
maybe that's what we did do to approach the World Trade
Center by Broadway.
          As we did, we then made a decision that we,
Dr. Kelly and myself, would set up a triage center.
Interestingly enough, it was selected as being the UFOA
headquarters, which I believe is 254 Broadway or 225
Broadway, something like that.  But we decided on the
lobby of that building because there was a pharmacy, a
D. PREZANT
18
Duane Reade, that we could use for supplies and to set
up a triage center.
          I've got to interrupt you now because I've
got to go to this meeting.  I have a 4:30 meeting.  I
have to go.
          MS. ROM:  Okay.
          DR. PREZANT:  I'm happy to restart again
tomorrow.
          MS. ROM:  All right.  What I'm going to do,
I'm just going to identify myself as Patricia Rom from
the Bureau of Investigations and Trials.  We're going
to conclude this interview at this moment so that you
can go to your meeting.  The time now is 1637 hours and
we'll regroup and we'll redo this interview at your
next earliest convenience and we'll just pick up from
where you left off.
          DR. PREZANT:  I know this story well because
I've given it several times.  That's why it's so well
rehearsed.  So I'll know to start at the time we were
at the UFOA building and started to build this triage
center, which is an interesting story in itself.  So I
look forward to it.
          MS. ROM:  Okay.
          DR. PREZANT:  Thank you very much.
D. PREZANT
MS. ROM:  Thank you so much.
19
          DR. PREZANT:  I'm going to apologize for
having to leave.
          (Interview adjourned to November 27, 2001, at
which time the interview of Dr. Prezant continued as
follows:)
D. PREZANT
20
          MR. CUNDARI:  Today is November 27, 2001.
I'm George Cundari with Patricia Rom.  We're here with
Dr. David Prezant, Deputy Chief Medical Officer, for a
continuation of the interview that they had on November
14.
     Q.   Dr. Prezant, can you just tell us the
continuation of what happened that day?
     A.   So we had gotten to the point where we were
setting up a triage center in the lobby of the building
where the union, the UFOA has their headquarters
upstairs.  It wasn't selected because of the union
being in that building.  It was just an interesting
concept.  It actually was selected because there was a
Duane Reade in the lobby, which we were able to open
and utilize many of their supplies.  Our concept at
that moment was that we would be having a very minimal
medical intervention, just bandages and that type of
stuff, and then move them to whatever emergency room
had not been overwhelmed by this event.
          As the moments progressed, and it probably
was within less than a half an hour, we were joined by
several other medical officers, Dr. Garvey, Dr. Ortiz,
Dr. Maloney, and within an hour, by Dr. Manner.  These
are all Fire Department Medical Officers who came in to
D. PREZANT
21
help out with what we thought would be an overwhelming
number of injured firefighters, EMS, civilians, et
cetera.
          Also, within that hour, one of the advantages
of New York City, at least on days like that day, is
the tremendous number of physicians that tend to live
and work in the area and nurses as well.  Our goal had
been to set up a very minimal,
stabilize-and-then-move-on-to-an-emergency-room-type
triage center.  But happenstance would have it that
there was a convention of surgeons a block away who
then joined us and we wound up with, you know,
estimated numbers, six vascular surgeons, four
orthopedic surgeons, four general trauma surgeons and
nurses.
          So we had the staff to actually set up a true
MASH unit, and we had no idea what we would be seeing.
We had all of the surgical personnel, so it seemed like
a waste to not utilize them.  But we had no surgical
supplies.  We called one or two of the nearby emergency
rooms, who, although they had not seen a lot of
patients yet, were also worried that they would be
overwhelmed.  So they would not give up any of their
supplies.
D. PREZANT
22
          One of the surgeons who was there worked out
of Special Surgery, which is far north of this event
and which also doesn't have a very active emergency
room.  They tend to be a sort of tertiary care center.
So he used a working cell phone to call that hospital
and have supplies brought to the lobby.  We sent an
ambulance up to get them.  The ambulance got back and
we had tons of surgical supplies.
          We then separated out the lobby into sections
where we would have a surgery area, a psychological
area, an area for cardiac events, and an area for eye
irritation, asthma, smoke inhalation and that type of
stuff.  As doctors always do in these events, we set
this up so that there would be a tremendous amount of
room for surgery.  You need a lot of room to do that
stuff and very little room for eye irritation because
how much room do you need and it's not really all that
interesting.  Dr. Feirstein, the psychiatrist from the
Fire Department, joined us shortly and he was in charge
of the psychological area.
          It wound up that we didn't have many injuries
at all and we, like many of the emergency rooms, all
the emergency rooms, with the exception of the first
few injuries, had no injuries.  The reports that you
D. PREZANT
23
hear about on the radio and TV like St. Vincent's saw a
thousand patients, they saw a thousand people with eye
irritation, and we were the same way.  All of the space
we had for surgery was completely unutilized and the
small, little area that we had for eye irritation was
overwhelmed.
     Q.   How big an area was this in the lobby?
     A.   The lobby was not large because this lobby
was really just a feeding area for the Duane Reade and
for a series of elevators that took you upstairs and
for a back restaurant.  We converted the back
restaurant into the psychological area and a surgery
area.  We used each one of the elevators, I think there
were four or six elevators, as a separate patient
examining room.  Then we used the sort of feeding area
in front of these elevators for the eye irritation and
the smoke inhalation.  There was a shoe store which we
ultimately opened as well which we were going to use.
It wound up we didn't have a lot of patients.
     Q.   Had the second tower collapsed at this point?
     A.   Oh, yes.  The first and the second tower
collapsed within minutes of each other.  This
evacuation that we did, walking down to the South Ferry
and then meeting Chief Nigro, all of that was after the
D. PREZANT
24
second tower collapsed.  Tower 7 had not collapsed.  So
this would be late morning, early afternoon.  That's an
important thing because that moves me to my next point
of where we are.
          We started hearing some noise.  There were
tons of firefighters, by the way, outside.  They had
set up one of their command centers, not immediately
outside but maybe like a block away on Broadway.  So
there were tons of firefighters there.  That's where
they were doing a staging area where the recall was
happening and firefighters were reporting there.  But
it was more than just that noise.  It was some noise,
some rumbling or something.  There were rumors that
were circulating.  People, you know, the doctors and
nurses would go out of the triage area to take a break,
even though we didn't have a lot of patients, just to
sort of walk around the street in front and see what
was going on.  So maybe that was a source for rumors.
          But anyway, more to the point, a rumor
started to develop that tower 7 was going to fall on us
or nearby us.  Having just lived through the collapse
and having Dr. Kelly just live through the collapse
with both of us getting buried, this was not a very
pleasing feeling.  It really does make me understand a
D. PREZANT
25
lot about psychological stress that can occur in these
events because I would not have had the same worry
about this if I hadn't just come through one of them.
          We went outside to speak to the Chief, the
head Chief.  His name is Chief Haring.  Great guy.  But
he said, you know, it's not going to be a problem.
Tower 7 may collapse.  It's not going to be anywhere
near here.  It's not going to be a problem.  But we
were really concerned about this.
          On the other side of Broadway maybe a block
or two north is this park by City Hall.  So some of the
doctors got it in their mind that they would not want
to be stuck in this building if there was a collapse.
They didn't quite believe that there wasn't going to be
a collapse and it wasn't going to fall on us.  I really
couldn't prevent them because I was a little worried
about this myself.  They decided and we sort of all
decided that we would take half the supplies and move
out into that park.
          By the time we were about done with this, we
interacted with Chief Haring again.  He basically was
incredulous and said: "What are you crazy?  You've
moved into the collapse zone, and if this collapse
occurs, the dust cloud is going to knock out that
D. PREZANT
26
entire park.  You're going to be useless there.  You've
made it worse."
     Q.   Are we talking about the park by the Winter
Garden?
     A.   I'm talking about the park in front of Pace
University.
     Q.   So this is where you are, Liberty?
     A.   No.  We're on Broadway now.
     Q.   City Hall Park is over here.
     A.   This is City Hall Park.  It would be right
there.
     Q.   At City Hall Park?
     A.   Right.  That's what we moved into.  Pace is
right here.  So we're somewhere around here.  We moved
into this park.  We now found out that we've done a
stupid thing, but we are too nervous to move back to
that building.  So we convince Chief Haring that he
needs to assign us to a different building.  He sent
some officers with us and we found that a place that
would be very useful for us would be Pace University.
          So we got everything up out of our building
and out of the park and we moved into Pace University.
It actually made a much nicer triage area because, A,
there was a lot more space, and, B, we had learned
D. PREZANT
27
about this eye irritation and so we gave more space for
the eye irritation area.  But these are all volunteer
doctors and nurses that set up the first triage area,
picked up everything, carried it themselves to the
second area and set up the second triage area.
          About midway into setting up physically the
second triage area, hanging the IV bags and everything,
a tremendous noise occurs, and it's so loud that
everybody rushes to the rear of the Pace University
building, all the doctors, all the nurses.  When the
noise was over, we went to the front.  The dust cloud
from tower 7, just like Chief Haring said, wiped out
that park.  If we had had any supplies there, any
doctors there, they wouldn't have been killed.  I mean,
it wasn't that massive the debris that fell on the
park, but they would have been useless.  The dust cloud
went all the way up to the door of Pace University, up
the stairs, across the street, right up to the door,
the lobby door.
          We stayed there waiting for patients and very
few showed up.  Around 8:30 we closed up that area and
then were available just going around in the car to see
firefighters and et cetera.  I'll tell you just one
other interesting anecdote.
D. PREZANT
28
          We're getting ready to close and a lot of
doctors and nurses sort of -- one of the problems with
these events is volunteers.  I mean, they're fantastic
and they really mean the best, but a lot of times
they'd be better off going to their hospitals rather
than coming to the scene.  One of the benefits of a
triage area is at least it gets them out of the street
where they might be utilized and at least they're
safer.  We had a lot of people and it was really
beautiful.
          But anyway, as we're closing, a young woman
in surgical scrubs comes rollerblading into Pace
University, into the auditorium where we were, and she
says I'm here.  I'm ready.  I'm ready to go.  I said to
her, I'm sorry you came all the way down here by
rollerblades, but we're getting ready to close.  There
are unfortunately a lot of dead but not too many
wounded.  I'm happy to have you here and I'm glad you
made the effort to be here, but there just aren't that
many patients and I'm really sorry that you had to come
down.  I'm just trying to be nice to her because she's
done all this effort.
          She says no, no, no, no.  You don't
understand.  I'm not a physician.  I'm a veterinarian.
D. PREZANT
29
So in the back of my mind, and I'm certain she saw it
on my face, I'm looking at her and I'm saying to
myself, oh, this is some liberal nut job veterinarian
who has come to save the parakeet and we've got
thousands and thousands of dead people and she's here
to save a parakeet.  I need this like a hole in the
head.  But of course I don't say that to her.  I say,
well, you know, we're not in charge of the parakeets
and we're closing and I'm sorry you came down here.
          She said no.  I'm not here for the parakeets,
all right?  This is a catastrophe.  They have rescue
dogs here.  There's a federal mandate that, when there
are a certain number of rescue dogs on site, there has
to be a veterinarian present to keep them working for a
long period of time; otherwise you have to take them
off every whatever.
          Now I felt like an idiot and I realized that
she was of tremendous value and I sent her over to the
ESU police force, who I'm certain were able to utilize
her services.
     Q.   So, really, after you moved to Pace, you
didn't see many civilians walking by you and not many
people at all?
     A.   It was just like a few.
D. PREZANT
Q.   A desolate area?
30
     A.   There were tons of firefighters and police
officers and civilians, most of them coming in for an
eye wash or to get out of the dust area for a while,
but we didn't really deal with any wounded or any chest
pain or any significant smoke inhalation.  The same was
true for the emergency room that was very nearby, which
is...
     Q.   Downtown Hospital?
     A.   Downtown Hospital.  They really were empty.
     Q.   So basically you were protected from the dust
clouds?
     A.   No.  I was buried.
     Q.   You were buried?
     A.   I was buried.  You missed tape 1.
     Q.   Sorry.
     A.   No problem.
          No, I was buried.  I looked like a definite
walking wounded.  Definite.  My pants were ripped to
shreds, blood all over me.  It didn't help my
hairstyle, which is usually stressed to begin with.
     Q.   It sounds like a very good triage area you
set up there.
A. Yes.
D. PREZANT
31
     Q.   It seems like you had everything going for
you.
     A.   Yes.  It's just...
     Q.   Unfortunately, there was nobody to treat.
     A.   Yes.  Also, there was a very interesting
triage concept when the building first collapsed, which
was unknown to us, and I think, you know, I don't know,
but I think unknown to EMS.  That is that a lot of
people were evacuated to Staten Island and to Jersey
City, including many of our firefighters.  So we had
nearly -- I don't have the exact number in front of me
right now, but 12 or 15 firefighters that were actually
hospitalized at Jersey City Medical Center, two of them
critically ill.  They've both recovered very well now.
The others with just fractures also are recovering
well.  There were tons of civilians brought to Liberty
State Park, which then was manned by the Jersey City
Medical Center, and to several areas in Staten Island
because ferries were just picking up wounded and taking
them and some fire boats and some police boats were as
well.
          Rather than taking them around the bend to
Bellevue, which, if somebody was to sort of think about
what would have been happening, that would have been
D. PREZANT
32
the way you would have thought boats would have been
dealing with this; they would have gone around the bend
to Bellevue or around the bend and then up the river to
New York Hospital-Cornell.  One would never have
imagined them going to Staten Island or Jersey City.  I
believe that that was based on just the total concept
of the city is being attacked.  Manhattan may not exist
for long.
     Q.   Besides a face-to-face with Chief Haring, did
you have any radio communications with any other
Chiefs?  Did they know where you were?
     A.   No.  We had the communications with the
mobile center, which we were unclear of how much
communication was going on from them due to technical
difficulties.  We had communication with Chief Nigro,
who left us when we got to Chief Haring, and then our
communications were totally with Chief Haring.  But
everybody knew that this triage center existed.
     Q.   It was known?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   But most of your communication was face to
face, not over the radio or anything like that?
     A.   The way Chief Haring communicated I'm not too
certain.
D. PREZANT
Q.   No.  I'm talking about you.
A.   Ours was all face to face.
33
          MR. CUNDARI:  I'd like to thank you for
sitting in on this interview.  The time is 1332.  This
concludes the interview.
          DR. PREZANT:  My pleasure.
File No. 9110213
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
           EMT LINDA MCCARTHY
   Interview Date:  November 28, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
L. McCARTHY
2
          MR. CUNDARI:  Today's date is November 28,
     2001.  I'm George Cundari, working with Murray
     Murad.  The time is 12 noon.  We are here
     interviewing Linda McCarthy.
     Q.   Please state your name, rank and command for
us.
     A.   My full name is Linda McNer McCarthy.  That's
my legal name.  My shield is 2259.  I'm an EMT and I
work for communications as a dispatcher.
     Q.   Linda, can you please tell us what happened
in the events of that tragic day of September 11.
     A.   Well, I had finished up my 16 hour shift at
communications at approximately 8 o'clock in the
morning.  Then I went outside, said good-bye to some
people, got a coffee from I guess the local little -- I
always get a little coffee in the shed, the little hut
they have there.  I went over to Flatbush Avenue where
my van was parked.
          Now I don't normally go home when I'm doing
mutuals.  I stay in the city with a friend or
wherever.  Go over to my old station or wherever.  So
this day I was heading up to East 9 Street in Manhattan
to park my van, alternate side of the street parking,
and then figure out what I was going to do for the
L. McCARTHY
3
afternoon.
          I got there probably -- must have been about
9, in the area, maybe quarter to nine or 20 to nine.
I'm not quite sure when, but I didn't notice any
-- first I see the first tower was 8:48.  I didn't see
that going on coming over the Manhattan Bridge, so
maybe it hadn't happened yet.  I think I would have
noticed it.
     Q.   You were going to Manhattan?
     A.   No, I was probably in Manhattan at that
point, coming up Allen or whatever comes off the
Manhattan Bridge, up to 9 Street and First Avenue.  I
parked my van and I puttered around and was waiting,
you know, you can't just leave your car parked.  I
heard a boom.  I said gee, that's a pretty loud manhole
cover.  I saw people on the corner looking up.  I said
that was pretty close.  I can't really leave my van
there.  You are not supposed to leave it until you have
moved it back to the empty side, whatever.
          So I went down anyway.  I saw the smoke.  I
said that looks like the World Trade Center area.
Someone said that is the World Trade Center, a second
plane just hit.  I said oh, my god.  I was still in
uniform.  I said I have to go.  I have to go down
L. McCARTHY
4
there.  I parked the van on the -- where you are not
supposed to park it until 10:30, 10 o'clock.  They move
it over.  I just parked it and I said I'm going down.
I just said oh, if they give me a ticket they give me a
ticket.  I'm going towards Second Avenue.  Maybe I will
get a cab or something.
          I hitched a ride with a Beth Israel
ambulance.  The people on it I didn't recognize.  I
know LoriAnn Wienerman.  I know different people.  No,
that's -- Beth Israel is 4 Charlie, but I didn't
recognize these people.  They weren't the young guys I
see sitting by Tompkin's Square Park once in a while in
14, I think it is, 14.
          I hitched a ride and a Firefighter jumped on
too, still putting on his gear coming off duty.  They
drove us down there to Church.
     Q.   You can use the diagram to --
     A.   We climbed down off their ambulance at
Barclay, yes, Barclay and that's not West, West
Broadway, and ran down towards West Street.  I don't
know where the Firefighter went.  He went off into the
crowd, but we ran together down there.  I stopped on
the corner of West and Vesey.  I looked at the burning
buildings.  I said I just have my uniform, my helmet
L. McCARTHY
5
and my outer coat, you know the one with the shiny
reflector.  I said I don't even know where triage is in
those two buildings.  I wouldn't know where to go.
          But I remember the last bomb when I was an
office aide at Woodhull, before I became an EMT, I put
on my little buff coat and went down and there was
right across the street a triage.  I said I'm going
there, because I know there is probably going to be a
triage.
     Q.   Upon your arrival did you see a lot of
injuries, a lot of people coming up to you, was there a
lot of activity going on around you, a lot of
ambulances?
A. IwasonthesidestreetandIdidseealot of ambulances parked up on Barclay, when we ran down Barclay, a lot of -- parked at angles, but like Hunter and -- you know, different. It wasn't all FDs parked there. Right away. I saw people injured but not severely injured coming towards me and around there people were taking care of them.
          There was a lot of bustling right there on
that corner.  I just had tunnel vision.  I said I have
to get to where I can get some equipment, so I went
straight there into this building, which is 3 World
L. McCARTHY
6
Trade Center.  Right in the front door.
     Q.   By the Winter Garden?
     A.   Yes, right to the right of the Winter
Garden.  Right there in the front, there was a triage
and I said I'm here off duty.  I wanted to check in.
First of all I wanted someone to know I was there and I
wanted to be able to get an oxygen tank or a stair
chair or something to help.
          Some people were out front writing a sign.  I
guess they were putting triage or something.  I heard
within 3 minutes or something, this rumbling.  Someone
said the building is going to come down.
     Q.   Could you see the towers where you were?
Were you able to see the towers?
     A.   I was right across the street from the
towers.  I couldn't see two, the south tower, very
well.  It was kind of blocked by one.  Do you see like
that?
Q. Uh-huh.
     A.   So when that one went down.  I thought the
plane was exploding, or another plane hit.  I had no
idea it was coming down.  But I couldn't see it gone,
because I couldn't see it really in the first place
with all the smoke.  But I saw debris flying at me like
L. McCARTHY
7
a hurricane.  So I didn't know what it was.  I heard
like an earthquake.  I said run for your lives, run.
          Everyone that was around me looked up and we
all just immediately ran into the building.  We were
running through the hallways, afraid that whatever it
was was going to blow through the windows and blow down
the hall.  I mean we didn't know (inaudible).
     Q.   Who was in the command post at this point?
     A.   Nobody that I worked with before.
     Q.   No Chiefs, nobody?
     A.   Chief, but there was no Lieutenant at that
point.  There were EMTs and paramedics right there.
Because I was looking for one.  Where is the
Lieutenant?  They said well, he's not here right here
this minute.  I'm like okay.  What do I do.  Count 4 by
4s.  No, you just kind of like see what's around and
see what you can do with it.  Until someone gives me
direction I didn't know where they wanted us to go.
          So we ran through and we came out the side
right here.  There was -- oh, once I saw it wasn't
flying through the glass at us, we had run down the
hallway, I saw some people coming from the stairway, so
I just kind of stood in front of the stairway and said
to the right, to the right.  I was like totally
L. McCARTHY
8
petrified, but I was directing them around to the right
to where the door was that we were all going out.
          So there was a lot of people -- obviously
there was a triage on the second floor in the front.
They were coming down and this was about 20 people.  So
I took them out the side.
     Q.   When you said they, what do you mean,
civilians or --
     A.   Civilians and EMTs.  We had a triage on the
second floor too.  Then it turns out the door right
here was open, but maybe it was better they were inside
for the extra 3 minutes they were walking, because they
were breathing fresh air, because when they got outside
it was like snowing.
          But the initial 5 pounds of stuff that came
down, 5 inches or -- that was only -- they had a few
extra minutes of breathing in the air that was inside.
Then I was walking around here, Vesey and West.  I had
a stair chair, an oxygen tank and one mask.  I had a
little respirator I had put on.  I was wearing my
helmet.  I was just kind of walking around, looking for
patients to direct them up Vesey towards the river.
          I don't know what happened here, but I just
knew -- like I saw my friend Pedro, who is a cop at the
L. McCARTHY
9
9th precinct, covered in dust.  Covered-- Velasquez,
Officer Pedro Velasquez.  He had a partner in there
too, somewhere that he was, somewhere near him, but it
wasn't -- he just asked me where do I go.  I said
wherever you go, don't go towards those buildings.
Stay away.
          He said okay, so I think he wandered up that
way, but you know, there was so many people running and
I didn't keep in touch, so I was up here.  I had a
bunch of firefighters on the floor.  I was cleaning
their eyes with -- I had wheeled someone up to, you
know -- someone else took over the 225 pounds of
patient, going up this hill in this thick stuff.
     Q.   Just speak a little louder.
     A.   Okay.  Then I was helping some firefighters
rinse their eyes on the corner when I heard the next
rumble.  I said oh, it's happening again.  I don't know
what is happening.  Run, run, run.  So we all ran right
in front of -- there is a building here.
     Q.   North End Street that you are pointing to?
     A.   Yes, there was a building but it's not
there.  That's what we ran into, this building, but we
stood outside for a while, because there was a lady
outside whose pacemaker kept kicking out, kicking off.
L. McCARTHY
10
She said I have to go that way.  She is pointing
towards north, towards the school, the high school, and
there is a big cloud of something coming around.  I
said Miss, I don't think so.  You won't be able to
breathe.  In one minute that cloud is going to hit us,
wrap us up where we are now.  We should go right
inside, don't you think.  She said okay.
          So we went right in the lobby here and other
people came in and then they started -- then it was
enveloped with this next cloud of smoke, debris and
dust.  But they started bringing in patients.  That
lobby, for us, became a triage area away from the front
site.  I don't remember names, but we had some triage
tags, so I was -- eventually when we got all these
people on the oxygen trees.  They brought the 10 and 12
oxygen hook ups to it.  Some people in them, some
people rinsing eyes.  We had a fire Chief in there with
a shoulder and a leg injury.  We had a journalist, who
had -- I don't know, I can't remember whether -- maybe
it was an ankle injury and a civilian that was helping
her.  A lot of firefighters and police officers.  Maybe
about 22 patients in there at one point.
          Then they said the building is going to blow,
the gas line.  So everyone has to move on.  They said
L. McCARTHY
11
anyone that can walk has to walk, so these people
(inaudible) got up, they were walking, we had to wheel
the fire Chief.  They were going this way, and we had
one man that kept fainting.  He said he had escaped
being killed and the Firefighter next to him had died,
was killed.  He wasn't hit or anything, but he was, I
guess it was psychogenic shock, because he kept -- even
lying down he was fainting.  He was syncopizing.
          I ended up with just him on a stretcher, with
him on an oxygen tank, nobody else, everyone was going
forward and piling equipment on stretchers and giving
oxygen trees to try and get more and they wheeled the
fire Chief away and I had this one young man that just
kept going in and out.  I said I have to get him to the
hospital.  He won't last going up.  I don't know what's
going to happen to him.
          So I called out to a paramedic from Cabrini.
His name is Slice.  I don't know what his real name
is.  I said Slice can you help, he said what's going
on.  I said I'm pushing this guy through this thick
stuff.  I don't have any help.  We need to get him to a
hospital.  Can you help me.  He said sure, I will
drive, you tech, we will get him to a hospital.  So we
jumped in -- he had lost his partner in the commotion.
L. McCARTHY
12
He didn't know where his partner -- his partner is
Andy, big guy.  Andy was lost, but this man kept
fainting.  I said please, I don't know what's going on
with him.
          So we took him and another patient we picked
up on the way to Long Island College Hospital.  I saw
thousands of people walking across.  I was busy teching
when we were in the -- but coming back, I saw thousands
with arm injuries and nothing like life threatening
right there, but totally bewildered coming over the
bridge.  That was cool the way you just went across the
bridge.  I would have gone to St. Vinny's, the places I
know, but it was right there.  He said well, yes, that
was the closest at that point.
          We went back to the scene and we picked up
two more, two Port Authority police officers that had
been in the mall area directing people.  It had been an
hour, hour and a half since they -- but it took them an
hour to get out.  One had an arterial bleed on his
arm.  That was, you know, controlled or whatever.  The
other one was, I can't remember his injuries, but we
took them to St. Vincent's.
     Q.   Just a question for you.  You started with
the rumbling.  Did you actually see the north tower
L. McCARTHY
13
come down?
     A.   All I saw was -- so much debris was just
obscuring my view of the north tower.  No.  The north
tower, I was up here, the second one, right?
Q. Right.
     A.   I was up at Vesey and I didn't even look up.
I know it was the scariest thing.  It was like an
earthquake and I didn't take the time to look up to see
it, because I saw all this debris again.  I just said
run, run.  People were saying people are jumping.  Well
this little building on the end was obscuring my view
at one point from the people jumping.
          Once I saw a little something hanging over
the side and it looked like a foot, but that's not
something I wanted to see.  But this building here
actually obscured my vision from people jumping,
because of the angle I was.  It's an 8 story building.
It's not a small building, so it was between the fire
and that, I hadn't seen (inaudible).
     Q.   I'm sure it was a very long day for you that
day.
     A.   Right.  That's all I did.  Around 11 o'clock
is probably when we ended up taking the patients up to
-- I stayed there all day and all evening too.  That's
L. McCARTHY
14
             when we took the patients to St. Vincent's, the two
             Port Authority police officers.  I guess that would be
             around 11, I'm not sure, approximately.  He did find
             his partner, up at 23rd Street, Chelsea Piers.
                  Q.   Did you ever notify anybody that you were
             actually operating on the scene that day finally at
             some point?
                  A.   Yes, I did talk with Sammy, who works with
             Chief Diggs.  This was in the afternoon though when I
             was trying to get back to do a mutual tour at 4
             o'clock.  Sammy made said no, you have been here all
             day, stay here and this will become a straight tour, so
             the next two tours became straight time for me, so I
             didn't do a tour 3 and a tour 1 the next night.  I just
             did an all day tour 2 and tour 3 and went home or did
             what I did.
                       MR. CUNDARI:  All right.  Thank you for
                  keeping this time for this interview.  This
                  concludes the interview.  It is 1220.  Thank you
                  very much.
</XMP></BODY></HTML>

FILI 9110214
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW ROGER MOORE
INTERVIEW DATE NOVEMBER 29 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY MAUREEN MCCORMICK

MR MURAD TODAY IS NOVEMBER 29 2001 THE TIME NOW IS 1410 HOURS AND MY NAME IS MURRAY MURAD OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT AM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH
LIEUTENANT MOORE LIEUTENANT ROGER MOORE OF EMS DIVISION
MR MURAD THIS IS REGARDING THE EVENTS ON
SEPTEMBER 11 2001 AND THIS INTERVIEW IS BEING CONDUCTED IN THE HOME OF LIEUTENANT ROGER MOORE AT 146 SHARET ROAD ON STATEN ISLAND
BY MR MURAD
LIEUTENANT MOORE CAN YOU GIVE US YOUR EVENTS
PERSPECTIVE ON THAT DAY
AT THAT POINT AT APPROXIMATELY JUST FIVE
MINUTES BEFORE THE JOB ORIGINALLY CAME IN WE WERE ALL AT THE ACADEMY FOR REFRESHER AND WAS WITH CHIEF RANDY HIRTH AND GRACE CACCIOLA LIEUTENANT WE HAD HEARD THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING GOING ON IT CAME OVER OUR PAGERS THAT IT WAS PLANE
WE WENT INTO THE ADMINISTRATION WING OF THE ACADEMY SOMEONE HAD TELEVISION ON AND WE SAW IT AND WE SAID WE SHOULD PROBABLY GO CHIEF HIRTH WAS LIKE WHY DONT YOU COME WITH ME BECAUSE THEY ARE PROBABLY GOING TO BRING EVERYBODY FROM THE ACADEMY

ROGER MOORE
ANYWAY AND THIS WAY THEY CAN USE YOU AND WE PROCEEDED TO GET INTO HIS CAR AND RESPONDED TO THE SCENE
WE WENT DOWN THE LIE THROUGH THE MIDTOWN TUNNEL AND UP ONTO THE WEST NO EAST SIDE DRIVE
FDR DRIVE EXCUSE ME AT THAT POINT AT 42ND STREET THE
HAD CLOSED OFF SO WE HAD TO FREE RIDE ALL THE WAY DOWN AND COULD GET BIRDS EYE VIEW
THE SECOND PLANE HAD JUST HIT WE CONTINUED
ON PULLED UP BY CAME UP WEST STREET AND STOPPED AT THE TUNNEL EXIT TO THE LINCOLN TO THE BROOKLYN
BATTERY TUNNEL WE FIGURED THAT WOULD BE THE BEST PLACE TO PARK BECAUSE THERE WERE SO MANY TRUCKS WE DIDNT WANT TO GET BLOCKED IN AND LOT OF EMERGENCY APPARATUS STILL RESPONDING SO WE PARKED THERE
GOT HELMET FROM HIS TRUNK AND PROCEEDED
TO WALK TO THE COMMAND POST WHICH WAS LOCATED AT WEST AND VESEY STREET WHILE WE WERE WALKING WE NOTICED THREE BLOCKS AWAY FROM THE TRADE CENTER THAT THERE WERE BODY PARTS SCATTERED ALL OVER THE ROADWAY AND THAT THERE WERE POLICE OFFICERS TRYING TO SAFEGUARD THE BODY PIECES
WERE THEY CIVILIANS OR YOU THINK THEY WERE FROM THE AIRCRAFT
UNKNOWN
POLICE

ROGER MOORE
YOU DONT KNOW
MEAN YOU REALLY HAD TO LOOK TO SEE
THESE THESE LOOKED LIKE HUNKS OF MEAT PEOPLE WERE TORN APART SO WE DECIDED TO GO ACROSS THE STREET ON THE WATER SIDE AND CONTINUED UP TO THE COMMAND POST
WHICH WAS LOCATED WHERE
AT WEST AND VESEY THE EMS COMMAND POST
REPORTED THE CHIEF MYSELF AND GRACE REPORTED TO CHIEF GOMBO WHO WAS IN CHARGE OF THE COMMAND POST
THEY HAD GIVEN CHIEF GOMBO CHIEF GOMBO HAD GIVEN CHIEF HIRTH AN ASSIGNMENT AND THEY TOOK OFF
WAS WAITING FOR MY ASSIGNMENT CHIEF NIGRO CAME OVER AND WAS TALKING ALONG WITH FIRST
COMMISSIONER FEEHAN AND FEW MINUTES WENT BY THEY
SAID WE ARE GOING TO GIVE YOU AN ASSIGNMENT
SAID OKAY IM HERE READY TO GO THE NEXT THING KNOW HEARD CHIEF NIGRO YELL LOOK OUT LOOK UP
WE ALL LOOKED UP AND THE BUILDING WAS ON ITS
WAY DOWN SO WE IMMEDIATELY DROPPED WHAT WE WERE DOING AND PROCEEDED TO RUN TOWARDS THE WATER THAT WAS THERE WAS LOADING DOCK FROM THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING ABOUT 40 FEET AWAY
AS WE WERE RUNNING MANAGED TO TRIP JUST OUTSIDE OF THE LOADING DOCK AND CAME DOWN ON THE GROUND

AND HIT THE CURH ELBOW WAS NOW
MANAGED TO ROLL PULLED ME IN AT SICKLES LANDED ON
ROGER MOORE
TAKING OUT MY KNEES AND MY LEFT
TRYING TO CRAWL WITH ONE ARM
LITTLE BIT AND FIREMAN GRABBED AND THE SAME TIME LIEUTENANT
TOP OF ME BUT AT THIS TIME
THE BUILDING WAS NOW HITTING THE GROUND OUTSIDE
OUTSIDE
ESSENTIALLY THOUGHT WASNT IN FAR
ENOUGH BUT AT THAT POINT YOU KNOW IT WAS YOU COULDNT SEE ANY MORE IT WAS BLACK BLACK NIGHT AND DUST AND DIRT AND EVERYBODY WAS CHOKING
AFTER APPROXIMATELY TEN MINUTES WENT BY YOU
COULD START TO SEE FLASHLIGHTS AND PEOPLE STARTING TO TALK AND MOVING AROUND THEY CAME OVER TO ME AND
ASKED YOU KNOW LET ME HELP YOU UP AND COULDNT GET
BOTH LEGS AND THE ARM WERE SHOT FIGURED THEY WERE BROKEN THEY SAID DONT GO ANYWHERE
COMMISSIONER FRANK GRIBBON CAME OVER AND SAID YOU KNOW HE WAS DRESSED OUT IN HIS UNIFORM IN
HIS TURNOUT GEAR AND HE SAID IM GOING TO GET
CREW ILL BE RIGHT BACK TWO FIREMEN THAT WERE THERE
SAID YOU KNOW WERE NOT GOING TO LEAVE YOU AND THEY SAW STRETCHER OVER HERE LETS GRAB THE STRETCHER THEY PUT ME ON THE STRETCHER AND SAID YOU
UP
DIRECTLY
CAPTAIN AND

ROGER MOORE
KNOW THE BEST THING TO DO IS PROBABLY GO OUT THROUGH THE LOADING DOCK INTO THE BUILDING AND OUT THE BACK OF THE BUILDING WHERE ITS SAFE
THEY SAID OKAY SO THEY WHEELED ME DOWN TO THE LOADING DOCK PUT ME UP ON THE LOADING DOCK INTO
THE BUILDING JUST AS WE ARE GETTING READY TO GET ONTO THE ELEVATOR WE HEARD HIGH PITCHED WHINE AND WIND
AND HEARD THUNDERING CRASHES IT TURNED OUT TO BE
WE THOUGHT WE ORIGINALLY THOUGHT IT WAS THE BUILDING THAT WE WERE IN WAS COMING DOWN BUT IT TURNED OUT TO
BE THE OTHER TOWER
THAT WAS THE NORTH TOWER
RIGHT
AT THAT POINT THE POWER WENT OUT IN THE
BUILDING THEY SWITCHED TO THEIR FLASHLIGHTS AFTER COUPLE OF MINUTES THE EMERGENCY GENERATORS GUESS KICKED IN OR THE EMERGENCY BATTERIES SOME LIGHTS CAME BACK ON AND THEY ARE LIKE WE NEED TO GET OUT OF
HERE AND SAID WELL CANT WALK THEY SAID WELL WERE NOT LEAVING YOU EITHER SO THEY GOT ON THEIR RADIO AND MANAGED TO GET COUPLE OF PEOPLE THAT WERE UPSTAIRS THEY CAME DOWN THE FIRE ESCAPE INSIDE
THE STAIR BUILDING THINK IT WAS STAIRWAY OR
THE FIVE OF THEM CARRIED MYSELF AND THE HUNDRED POUND

ROGER MOORE
AMBULANCE STRETCHER UP FOUR FLIGHTS OF STAIRS
THEY HAD SAID YOU KNOW MY NAME IS STEVE AND MY NAME IS THE OTHER GUYS NAME IS GARY AND YOU KNOW WE ARE GOING THE HELP YOU LISTENING TO THEM TALK ON THE RADIO WAS ABLE TO COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THEY WERE FROM TRUCK THEY WERE SAYING TRUCK TO WHOEVER AND THEY WERE YOU KNOW THOSE PEOPLE CAME DOWN
THEY THEN PROCEEDED TO GET ME UP THE STAIRS AFTER ABOUT TEN FIFTEEN MINUTES THEY GOT ME UP TO THE
TOP AND THEY WHEELED ME OUT THERE WAS BATTALION CHIEF THERE COULDNT SEE HIS NAME
THEY TOOK ME OUT THE SIDE DOOR OF THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING AND WHEELED ME DOWN TO THE MARINA THE SAME TIME THERE WAS POLICE LAUNCH PULLING UP SO THEY WHEELED ME DOWN TO THE MARINA THE REST OF THE WAY AND PUT ME ON THE POLICE LAUNCH
AT THAT POINT WAS STILL BASICALLY IN SHOCK AND SORT OF LIKE IN DAZE AND THEY THEN TOOK ME
TOOK FEW OTHER PEOPLE THEY SAID WE ARE OUT OF HERE THEY BACKED AWAY AND THEY WENT TO ELLIS
ISLAND HAD ASKED THEM IF THEY COULD TAKE ME TO STATEN ISLAND BUT THEY SAID NO NO NO WE CANT DO THAT

ROGER MOORE
WE GOT TO ELLIS ISLAND THE NEW JERSEY EMS WAS IN THE PROCESS OF SETTING UP THEIR COMMAND POST AND
THEIR RESOURCES THEY HELPED ME THEY CARRIED THE STRETCHER OFF OF THE BOAT ONTO THE GROUND THEY SWITCHED ME ON TO JERSEY STRETCHER PUT THE OTHER STRETCHER BACK IN TO GO BACK AND GET MORE PATIENTS AT THAT POINT WAS TRIAGED BY THE JERSEY EMS AND THEY TRIAGED ME AS YELLOW AND EXCUSE ME AS RED BECAUSE WAS STILL HAVING SOME DIFFICULTY BREATHING
WITH ALL THE STUFF THAT HAD INHALED
THEY THEN PUT ME INTO AN AMBULANCE AND TOOK
ME TO JERSEY CITY MEDICAL CENTER THERE THEY TRAUMAED ME AND YOU KNOW DID THE WHOLE TRAUMA WORKUP WHERE WAS THEN ADMITTED AND SO ON AND SO FORTH
SO THEY DID THE SURGERY IN JERSEY RIGHT NO THEY DID
JUST STABILIZE YOU THEY STABILIZED ME

ROGER MOORE
BUT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO ADMIT YOU ANYWAY FOR THE LEGS BECAUSE
YOU CAN MOVE THE RAYS DONT SHOW ANY BROKEN BONES HOWEVER IT LOOKS LIKE YOUVE TORN THE MUSCLE WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO GET MRIS TO DO IT
THEY THEN WHEELED ME UP ONTO ANOTHER FLOOR THAT THEY HAD JUST OPENED TO FOR THIS DISASTER AND
WAS MEDICATED THE REST OF THE AFTERNOON
THAT NIGHT PD SHOWED UP NEW YORK CITY PD
WAS GOING AROUND TAKING NAMES AND INFORMATION FROM ALL THE PATIENTS THAT WERE THERE AT THAT POINT ASKED ONE OF THE OFFICERS IF HE COULD TRY AND CONTACT MY
WIFE AND THEY WERE LIKE WELL THE PHONES ARE OUT SO HE SAYS LET ME TRY SOMETHING
HE SWITCHED ON HIS RADIO AND WAS ABLE TO HIT THE STATEN ISLAND DISPATCHER AND THEY SENT THE CAR TO
MY ADDRESS
THAT WAS VERY NICE
HOWEVER SHE WHEN SHE MY WIFE SAW THE INCIDENT SHE WAS OFF THAT DAY SHE WENT IN TO WORK TO
HELP IN THE ER SO THAT NIGHT SHE COMES HOME AT ABOUT

ROGER MOORE
1130 NOT KNOWING WHERE AM AND KNOWS THAT ALWAYS CALL AND WAS QUITE CONCERNED SHE COMES IN AND
NEIGHBORS COME IN BEHIND HER AND TELL HER WELL YOU KNOW THE POLICE WERE HERE
SO AT THAT POINT SHE FINALLY GOT AHOLD OF
DIVISION AND SHE FOUND OUT WHERE WAS
MY DROVE HER AND SOME OTHER FRIENDS TO THE
NEIGHBORS
HOSPITAL AT ONE OCLOCK IN THE MORNING AND THEN SAW
MY WIFE
THE NEXT DAY THEY TREATED ME AND RULED OUT THE HIP FRACTURE THAT THEY THOUGHT HAD WHICH
DIDNT SAID REALLY WANT TO GET TO STATEN ISLAND BECAUSE WANT TO BE ABLE TO CONTACT MY WIFE
COULDNT CALL ANYBODY BECAUSE OF THE PHONES BEING
RESTRICTED BECAUSE OF THE HOSPITAL YOU KNOW POLICY THEY ONLY HAD TWO OR ONE SO IT WAS NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE
FOR ME TO TRY AND CONTACT
HAD MADE IT KNOWN AND THE NEXT THING
KNEW WAS TRANSFERRED THAT NIGHT WEDNESDAY NIGHT AROUND ELEVEN OCLOCK JERSEY EMS TOOK ME TO STATEN ISLAND HOSPITAL WHERE WAS ADMITTED AT THAT POINT THEY TOOK OVER MY CARE AND MY REGULAR PHYSICIAN DR CARL ANDERSEN ALONG WITH ORTHOPEDICS FROM STATEN ISLAND ASSOCIATES TOOK OVER MY CASE THEY REQUESTED
10

ROGER MOORE
MRIS OF BOTH MY LEGS AND THEY CONTINUED TREATING MY EYES AND MY BREATHING AND MY ARM AND WHAT NOT THEN HAD THE SURGERY ON BOTH LEGS THEY TOLD ME THAT THE
MRIS SHOWED THAT MY LEFT LEG WAS COMPLETELY DETACHED THE MUSCLES COMPLETELY DETACHED ALONG WITH THE LIGAMENTS AND THE TENDONS AND RETRACTED THE RIGHT LEG HAD PARTIAL TEAR IN THE MUSCLE AND TENDONS THE TENDONS WERE TORN
SO THEY REATTACHED EVERYTHING THEY PUT MY
LEFT LEG INTO WEEKS THEY PUT REMOVABLE
AFTER
THEN MOVED ME IN THE HOSPITAL TO INPATIENT REHAB WHERE
SPENT THE NEXT TWO AND HALF WEEKS THEN FROM THERE WAS RELEASED ON OCTOBER 12 CAME HOME AND AM
NOW GOING TO OUTPATIENT REHAB AT STATEN ISLAND
UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL
MR MURAD THERE IS NOTHING REALLY NEED TO
ASK OF YOU SO AT THIS TIME THIS WILL CONCLUDE THE INTERVIEW
ID LIKE TO THANK YOU LIEUTENANT ROGER MOORE
THE TIME NOW IS 1425 HOURS AND THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW THANK YOU
CAST THAT HAD TO HAVE ON FOR SIX
THE RIGHT LEG WITH MINIMAL WORK THEY
SPLINT ON
COUPLE OF DAYS IN THE HOSPITAL THEY
11
File No. 9110215
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       LIEUTENANT JOSEPH CHIAFARI
   Interview Date:  December 3, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
J. CHIAFARI
2
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Today's date is
     December 3, 2001.  The time is 1355.  This is
     Battalion Chief Arthur Lakiotes, assigned to the
     Safety Command of the New York City Fire
     Department.  I'm conducting an interview with --
          LIEUTENANT CHIAFARI:  Lieutenant Joseph
     Chiafari, Safety Command.
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Regarding the
     events of September 11.  This is taking place at
     headquarters on the 7th floor.
     Q.   Joe, would you tell me what happened, where
you were when you were notified about the World Trade
Center and the rest of your day there?
     A.   Okay.  It was the morning of the 11th, it was
shortly after I reported to work that we realized what
was taking place at the World Trade Center.  I heard
Chief of Department Ganci from his office yell out oh,
shit, a plane just hit the Trade Center.  From there a
group of us left headquarters in passenger cars.  I was
driving Chief Turi that day when we left the building
and we headed over the Brooklyn Bridge.
          At first we thought it was a high rise fire,
not knowing if it was valid, if the plane had hit it or
not, but en route there, there was confirmations that a
J. CHIAFARI
3
plane did strike the building and there were several
floors of fire that were definitely visible from the
Brooklyn Bridge.  It was a very clear day and you could
see how much smoke was billowing from the building and
visible fire coming from it.
          Once we got at the scene, we got out of the
car and started to put our bunker gear on when people
from around us were yelling out --
     Q.   Where did you park the car?
     A.   Parked the car at the corner of Church and
Fulton, alongside of the cemetery.  People were yelling
out that people were jumping from the building.  We
didn't visibly see that at first, because not seeing
people coming down.  Again, we are putting our bunker
gear on to prepare for going over to the building
itself.
          We locked up the car, started heading across
Church Street when we heard a roar of a jet engine, as
if it was taking off in flight and we couldn't help but
look into the sky to see exactly what it was and yes,
it was a plane, just prior to striking the building and
the engines were revved up fully.  From that you saw it
actually piercing the wall of the building with a large
amount of fire coming from it.  Of course, our
J. CHIAFARI
4
immediate reaction as well as anybody else's in the
street around us was to run and get the heck out of
where we were.
          So we ran back into Fulton Street away from
the Trade Center.  At this point when we first turned
around, we were pretty much at the center of Church
Street and did an about face and headed back as the
street was showered with debris from the building as
well as from the plane.  You could hear stuff actually
landing into the street area.  We took a position along
the sidewalk area along where a group of stores were.
          We waited maybe about a minute or two and
then we headed back toward Church Street, again toward
the building and you could see the aftermath of what
was in the street, along with some airplane parts,
which were definitely very visible and identifiable
what they were.  So we had to make our way into tower
one, which is where the lobby command post was for the
incident.  Our best thought in getting over there was
to walk along Vesey Street.  We walked along Vesey to
the front part of tower one area.
          We kept, of course, looking up to see if
anybody was possibly jumping down.  Again, we didn't
see any jumpers at that point, but being aware of
J. CHIAFARI
5
possibly people coming down.  We came across some,
again, some airplane parts that were actually smoking
and it was very real to us what had happened.  Still
not believing what had happened, of course.
          We were walking up the walkway to the front
of tower one.  We were met by a couple of firemen that
said watch out, people are jumping, advised us that
people were coming down the front of the building in
the front of the building, and it was evident that at
that point you could see body remains, not fully intact
of course, they looked like hunks of meat, just laying
on the walkway and roadway itself.  We made ourselves
quickly into the front of the building, wound up in the
lobby.
          There in the lobby command post there was
Chief Hayden, who was in the Division that day and
later we had Chief Cruthers there, along with the Fire
Commissioner, Von Essen, Tom Fitzpatrick, Donald Burns
was there.  I'm trying to remember who else.  Everybody
was staging at that one point.  We were trying to get
an assessment of what had gone on.  They were already
aware that a plane struck the other tower.  When Chief
Turi and I went into the building, he advised them of
such and they were very well aware of it.  Richie
J. CHIAFARI
6
Sheirer, the Commissioner for OEM, he was there.  He
was making recommendations that maybe they move the
command post into where his building was operating out
of.  I think it's number 7.  He was telling us his
place is up and running and he said move it over there
because there was a discussion taking place that we
have two buildings on our hands.  We have to put
ourselves in a place where we could monitor this whole
thing, for what was going on.  The decision had been
made to move the command post to the west side of West
Street, which we later took up space over there, to
monitor both towers.
          While we were in there, a pretty big concern
was the condition of the elevator cars, whether they
were operating or not, and that if the cables would
fail, if they come crashing down into the lobby area
and then blow out into the lobby where most people were
congregating.  They wanted to get everybody out of the
lobby areas themselves.
          I didn't know what it was at first.  I
thought it was guys venting from above, but it wound up
being the breaking of glass taking place and you didn't
know what it was and it wound up being the glass canopy
out in the front of the building there.  There were
J. CHIAFARI
7
actually people that were plunging through the glass as
you actually were standing there hearing that taking
place.  So it was very evident that, what is this, you
know, it was the walls of the building, the lobby area,
which had tiled walls, a lot of it had been cracked off
already from the vibration probably that took place up
above and severely broke them off the walls.
          Again, I was concerned about getting people
out of the lobby area, even though that was the lobby
command post for that tower.  They wanted to move
people out of that.  So okay, what we did was Chief
Turi and I then, after -- we were most likely in the
lobby no more than ten minutes.  At most.  More than
ten minutes.  I should really state my arrival times.
          From the time we left the building here, we
left shortly after the plane hit, which was just about
a little after quarter of 9.  And we actually arrived
at where we parked, again, it was prior to the plane
crashing, so I estimate it's maybe just about 9 o'clock
or a minute after nine when we arrived at the spot
where we parked the car.  From the time we put our gear
on to the time we actually got to the lobby, it took us
definitely ten minutes to walk around to the other
side.  Like I said, we were in the lobby itself for
J. CHIAFARI
8
approximately ten minutes, so here it is now maybe like
20 after nine.  We are walking across to West Street to
where we are going to set up the command post.
          Again, not knowing who is up above jumping.
You took a quick look, but our big intention was at
that point, let's just run across the roadway and just
hope we don't get struck by somebody.  Rather than just
looking up, because it was difficult to walk away and
look up at the top of the building to see people, if
they were coming down or not.  Again, a lot of glass in
the street.  Actually, the car port area in the front.
Pieces of people that were broken up.  Of course, there
were a lot the rigs out front that I couldn't readily
identify who was parked where, but there were a lot of
rigs out front.
          So we went across West Street, across the
roadway.  Directly across from tower number one, which
was a parking garage ramp.  I believe it was part of
the Winter Garden parking area.  On the ramp where the
command post was set up, field comm. had their van
there.  The board was already set up with the field
comm. officer.  Chief Ganci was there, along with Chief
Downey.  There were companies that were coming in to
stage at that point, and expressively they were, I
J. CHIAFARI
9
think, very much concerned about where people were
standing.  Chief Ganci had mentioned that he didn't
want anybody really standing on the sidewalk area.  He
made it a point that he wanted guys to stand at the
lower part of the ramp toward the parking garage.  He
didn't want anybody to be struck by any debris that
might have been falling down.
          We were already just, again, we left the
lobby, must have been around 20 after nine, so a couple
of minutes to get across the roadway, so I would say
definitely by 9:30 we are up and running.  What's going
on across the street.  Trying to get a heads up of
what's going on, but a lot of radio contact, guys
trying to make their way up the stairs, having
difficulty getting up the stairs because people are
coming down the stairs.
          One report was given that it took -- I don't
know which unit gave it.  That it took them
approximately 30 minutes to go up ten floors, with the
amount of people that were coming down.  I think it was
a single file, from what I understand, that was going
up, but it took that amount of time, 30 minutes to go
ten floors.
          They were trying to make contact in there,
J. CHIAFARI
10
Chief Turi asked me what we could do.  They had a
tactical and a command channel already established, but
because they had two buildings going and I think Chief
Ganci's thought was let's get two tactical frequencies
going.  Let's get two command frequencies going and
treat this as two separate incidents.  I had conferred
with the field comm., what available frequencies there
were and gave them back my suggestions for two
tacticals and two commands.  He tried to put those into
place depending -- and he announced them, but you got
the staff Chiefs definitely on the command channel for
tower two, which were at that point still coming in.
Trying to let them know what was going on with that.
          He expressed everybody to get on, with
operating tower two, to get on to the new tactical
frequency.  I don't think there was really a
verification of who actually switched over.  At that
point the Chief, he made it a point to verify what the
air presence was.  There were a lot of reports coming
back of people trapped on the upper floors.  Field
comm. was getting them from the Manhattan dispatcher.
          They were saying how people were reporting in
a conference room.  30 people in a conference room on
such and such floor, which was definitely above where
J. CHIAFARI
11
the fire floor was.  Of course, we were just fielding
those reports and we really couldn't get companies up
in those areas to tell them where they were, just
accepting that.
          Visibly from where we were standing, I
estimate that I probably saw about a hundred people
jumping to their death.  Some looked like they were in
pairs, but most of them were singly, free falling, to
such a degree that they were doing tumblesalts in the
air and forcibly landing to the ground, or very
impactly landing on top of that glass canopy, which
seemed to be like almost like individual skylights that
were -- they were breaking through.  Very noticeably
you could hear them like pounding, almost like a bomb
going off, a small bomb, like paum, paum.  And so there
was a lot of glass breaking and a lot of hearts being
shattered by watching that thing.
          So again you seen that.  From the location we
were at, we were directly opposite number one, but you
got a good visual on tower number two and you could see
what was going on there.  Later understanding that
because of the wind direction, it was more noticeable,
more impressive probably from the opposite side with
the smoke that was coming out, even though you could
J. CHIAFARI
12
see -- you knew what the problem was, it was more
intense from the opposite side of the street.
          Again, it was a lot of fielding there of
Chiefs at the command post.  Again, it was -- at the
command post was Chief Ganci, Chief Turi.  It was Ray
Downey, Chief Cross, he was acting Deputy that day from
the 11th Division, along with, I think he had a Captain
with him.
     Q.   Stackpole?
     A.   Stackpole, yes.  Stackpole was in that day.
He was at the command post as well.  I remember they
needed a command post company to help the field comm.
out.  I had grabbed the officer of Engine 34 and told
them they could be used in the command post, even
though they were not command post trained, but we
needed an engine company to help the field comm. at
that point, so we grabbed them and put them in touch
with the field comm. officer and tried to work with
them.  Knowing what was going on.
          There was talk about not knowing the
stability of the building.  I heard that being
mentioned and not knowing where that report came from.
It's like somebody was questioning the stability of the
building.  In fact, that was coming from Steve
J. CHIAFARI
13
Mosiello, the executive assistant for Ganci.  I think
somebody asked him and he mentioned to Ganci.  Somebody
mentioned about the stability of the building.  That
happened to be shortly before the building did come
down.  Like I said, we must have been at the command
post a good half an hour at that west side of West
Street, just standing at that one location doing all
that.
          There was a time where he did -- actually
standing there, you heard actually what sounded like
another plane flying overhead.  I remember even asking
one of the guys from Con Ed that was happening to stand
there.  I didn't know if they were blowing off any
steam from the building or blowing off any residual gas
or anything, but it sounded like the roar of a plane,
and most likely we learned that that was like military
jets that may have been flying overhead to monitor what
was going on in the harbor area.  But that was very
noticeable and you couldn't help but look up again to
see what was going on.
          There was -- it must have been almost like
instantaneously with your eyes focused on what was
going on with the two towers that all of a sudden you
start to see peeling away from tower two, the facade of
J. CHIAFARI
14
the building.  That's what I really thought was going
to be happening.  I was thinking in my mind, gee, if
the thing was going to collapse, how it was going to
collapse.  I was thinking more well, if it's going to
weaken itself, most likely where it's burning at, it's
most likely going to tip over and the remainder of the
structure is almost going to like remain intact, so you
had a good amount of like 20 or 30 floors that would
maybe tip over on its side.
          But what looked like the facade just starting
to peel away from the building and everybody shouting
out at that point watch out, it's starting to go, and
everybody is like duck for cover, and we all as a group
of us, you couldn't help it.  Not like we had a
stampede but a group of us all was running into the
garage area down to the lower level of the parking
garage from where we were first standing.  It was good
that the companies that were standing fast there were
at the whole part of the ramp because they themselves
starting to go in, because they were leaving probably a
lot more congestion that we probably would have had if
everybody was at the sidewalk area.  We probably would
have been trampling on each other trying to get
through.
J. CHIAFARI
15
          I did stare at that building briefly, curious
about how, if it was collapsing, was it collapsing or
was just the facade peeling away.  I'm realizing that
I'm watching both taking place.  The facade is coming
away and it looked like the upper part of the tower was
starting to crash down into the other floors.  I said
-- maybe curious what it was going to look like, not
realizing that the shit is going to start falling where
we are standing, but I looked back and I said let me
start heading down this ramp.
          I'm about halfway down the ramp when you
could start to hear stuff hit the sidewalk area.  You
could start to see behind you an envelope of dust start
to come down the ramp itself.  Not having with us any
SCBA, we just had our bunker gear on and running down
the ramp, I'm thinking, okay, here we are, we are going
to a lower area and we are going to suffocate in here.
We have no air, we are going to be suffocated by the
fact that the dust cloud is just going to take us
over.
          I happened to go down to the lower area, down
to the lower part of the ramp and it was very clear and
visible there.  I mean it started to get dusty.  I
wound up going into an office area, which was right at
J. CHIAFARI
16
the bottom of the ramp.  Must have been the office for
the garage.  I don't know.  At the moment I happened to
see a telephone there.  I picked up the telephone and I
felt the need to make contact with my wife and just
happened to call up and let her know my whereabouts.  I
think I was on the phone not even 30 seconds and just
said hello and kind of like sent a little love and hang
up the phone and get back to what we were doing.  We
were lucky that the whole area where we were, it was
pretty visible.  It was not overly taken like I thought
it was, but it's like okay, let's find out what's going
on outside.
          This thing had happened.  You could see that
the top of the ramp there was still dark and everything
was quiet.  Everything had fallen already, everything
was quiet, so you wanted to get up on the ramp, but it
was dark and I'm thinking that because it was so dark
that that area outside us was piled with debris.  We
weren't going to be able to get out.  There were guys
looking for an alternate way out, we were looking for a
stairway to an upper floor, which some guys did go up.
I didn't follow them.  I stayed by the ramp area,
thinking we are going to try the way we came back in,
rather than trying to search our way through this
J. CHIAFARI
17
building and try to find another way out if it's not
necessary.
          Let them -- they found a way and maybe they
will let us know about it.  So I don't know if and what
way they did finally get out, whether they hit that
back courtyard or not.  We made our way up the ramp.
It looked as if when we first got out, it must have
been a good five minutes I was down below.  After those
five minutes I came up to the top of the ramp.
          Initially I was met by Chief Bob Ingram, and
Steve Mosiello, those being two people that were at the
command post when we first started this whole thing.
It looked like -- the first impression I got -- it
looked like winter.  It looked like it had just snowed
and the whole area just covered with white stuff all
over the place.  A lot of debris all over.  The van for
the field comm. was still on the ramp, although dented
at the top, not crushed.  One of the fellows that was
working the field comm. that day was dispatcher John
Traverso.  I met him, he told me he remained in the van
when everything came tumbling down.  He said he crawled
underneath the desk.  He felt very uneasy of the whole
situation not knowing if he was going to get crushed in
the van or not, but he survived that.
J. CHIAFARI
18
          Along with others, we started to almost like
regroup what was going on.  People started to
reappear.  I don't know if they were guys that fully
made their way back up to the sidewalk that were in the
garage area with us.  I know there was, in fact, there
was one dispatcher from the field comm. that initially
we didn't know where he was.  I remember somebody did
ask me after the second collapse, they said to me,
where was he.  I said I remember him being in the
garage area with me, but after that I don't remember
where he was.  He was later found along with a group of
other people that wound up going on a ferry boat over
to Jersey with a group of injured people that wound up
in a hospital over on the Jersey side.  So that was his
last whereabouts.  I saw him.  Later found out he was
okay.
          So we were regrouping on the sidewalk.
Again, the radio was very quiet.  There was not a lot
that I thought was taking place.  I said this is too
unusual or awkward.  What's going on here.  I heard
some guys on the radio, one of which was a familiar
voice, I heard the voice of firefighter Bob Crawford
from the Safety Battalion.  He made two notification
calls to the Chief that was working that day.  He
J. CHIAFARI
19
called -- he just very briefly.  He didn't sound
-- sound very calmly.  Would not say he was in
trouble.  He just said, safety alpha to safety and he
just said that twice and that's the last I heard of Bob
Crawford, realizing he didn't make it out of where he
was.
          Again, I didn't make any radio contact with
him.  It didn't sound like he was in any kind of
trouble.  I guess I thought he was just trying to get
the Chief.
          I also heard one of the Lieutenants that I
knew from Engine 217, Tom McGoff, who did get injured
that day.  He lost a couple of his members with him.
I'm not sure their exact location, but I did hear him
and he was trying to call his control man on the radio,
who did answer him.  He was trying to get him out of
where they were, later found out that they were in
tower one.  I believe Tom told me he was out on the
street and his control man was inside.  They even told
him I heard him.  Heard him trying to get him out of
the area.  I think it was almost evident that realizing
that tower two had came down, tower one was almost
evident to come down, but not knowing when.  It would
have been understandable that tower one would have came
J. CHIAFARI
20
down first, being the first one to be hit, but tower
two, surprised us very suddenly to come down.
          There were people on the street, some
firefighters being very disoriented of where they were
coming out of.  Some were parking themselves underneath
the overhead ramp, not the overhead ramp, the overhead
walkway that goes over West Street and I almost had to
pull them out of where they were.  I said listen, don't
sit here.  If this thing is going to come down, we
don't know the stability of this overhead walkway
here.  If anything, just go down a block a bit and sit
down below.  A couple of guys were helping themselves
down there.
          There were some firefighters that were
walking back south on West Street, looking for their
company.  A decision had been made at that point to
evacuate anybody out of West Street, head them north.
I had met up with Chief Turi and he said this is what
we are going to do.  Head everybody out of West Street,
and start heading everybody up north and get them out
of this area.
          So I met a couple of firefighters, I directed
them back up north.  They later saw me after the second
collapse and thanked me actually for directing them in
J. CHIAFARI
21
that direction, because they were looking for their
company, who they didn't know what the full whereabouts
of them were, but they later were intact, but didn't
know.
          I remember trying to direct a Lieutenant from
Engine 65 who also survived this, but he was looking
for a member of his company, which I understand was
also found alive, but pretty wall banged up.  I think
he was a chauffeur.  I think his chauffeur's name was
Armando.  I think he was all banged up, but he was
looking for him.  He didn't know where he was.  I said,
listen everybody is heading up north.  I said it's a
good idea for you and your guys to head up in that
direction too.  He says don't tell me, I'm going to
look for my guy.  I'm not going to stop.  I said I got
no control over that.  I am just giving him a
suggestion.  Like I said, we tried to get everybody
out.
          Chief Turi having to commandeer a bull horn.
I don't know if he had gotten it from one of the cops
or who he had gotten it from, but he was making a very
large announcement over the bull horn in the street,
you know, having all people in the street head north of
Murray, I think we were trying to get, because that was
J. CHIAFARI
22
a couple of blocks north of where we were.  We were
trying to set up another command post now at Murray and
West.  He wanted everybody north of Murray Street.
That's what we were trying to do.  Anybody we saw, we
started heading them in that direction.
          I had ran over to a rig that was parked in
the middle of West Street, actually on the east side of
West Street, probably just about even with Vesey.  I
don't know what rig it was.  I got in the rig, the rig
was running and I got on the PA and made announcements
over the PA, the same thing.  Any people in the street
there start heading north, everybody get heading north
and make an announcement that way to get them out of
there.
          I had found a -- this is when I had come out
of the garage ramp.  I had found a loose mask laying on
the ramp.  Most likely it was from the unit that was
staging, from one of the guys that was staging and
didn't grab his mask on the way out.  I picked it up,
not knowing if I was going to need it and took it along
with me.  We were trying to get people out of the
area.  Remember we were running into people in the
street.
          Briefly, Chief Turi was trying to look for,
J. CHIAFARI
23
you know, some of the Chiefs that were with us.  I
don't know if he made full contact with everybody.  It
was still very confusing what was going on.  It was,
like I said, the whole street was all littered, what
was going on.
          We got to pretty much to -- I want to say we
got to West and Murray.  I want to say we got to West
and Murray.  We parked ourselves right by a police
car.  I think this was where we were going to set up
this command post.  I felt comfortable at that
location, so what I did was I took the mask off my
back.  It was -- I said let me take this thing off.
I'm not going to need this right now.  I don't think I
put the mask down for all of 30 seconds when you start
to see tower two peeling away just like -- tower one
peeling away, just like tower two did.  It was almost
evident again that it was coming down.
          Our best alternative what to do was to just
keep on heading north.  A bunch of us, not all
together, of course, started running north and you ran
until the visibility started to reduce itself.  You
didn't want to run into a parked car or a tree or
whatever the case may be.  You just ran to a point.  I
did run behind a parked car.  I wound up being back
J. CHIAFARI
24
there with maybe like five other firefighters.  I
didn't even know who they were.  I think a couple of
them knew who they were.
          We were all huddled and hugged together
underneath -- behind this parked car.  We were as low
as we could be.  Here comes the dust cloud.  You know,
it was almost like being in like a dust chamber.  Your
visibility was down to nothing.  You are sucking this
stuff in.  You are choking, you want to hold on to
something to filter the air but, you know, you're just
trying to be light.  We are in darkness.
          I remember my throat, my nose, all being
plugged up with this stuff and you just wanted to
survive, that's all you wanted to do.  You were hoping
that you wouldn't -- you heard stuff falling down
around you, but you were hoping not to be hit by
anything.  I didn't know what was coming down.
          One fireman, we were all huddled together,
decided to say the Our Father and I guess he got all of
us saying the Our Father at that point, thought it was
probably our last time on being together.  We didn't
know what was going to be going on.  I think we were
behind the parked car for what seemed like maybe four
or five minutes.  Stuff started to lift.
J. CHIAFARI
25
          Again, the visibility in the street was next
to nothing.  All of a sudden you got some kind of
resemblance of what it was.  It started to almost look
like -- sort of looked like a bad fire that you have
been to, when the street was like all filled with smoke
and you could just about make out what rigs are parked
where.  Or a real foggy day.  It started to lift.
Actually most likely, the stuff started to really
accumulate on the ground is what was happening, the
heavy stuff anyway, the dust.
          We were looking around for each other.  I'm
trying to see familiar faces.  Like I said I didn't
even know the guys I was with.  I still don't even know
who they were today.  After running twice from this
whole thing, I think I had just about had it as far as
what was going on.  I think a lot of us did.  We didn't
know the structure of the command any more.  Who was
where, who was doing what.  Later I did see Chief Turi
again, who I was with.  I found him again.  I found him
in the middle of West Street.
          And then there was -- Chief Butler was
there.  There was some other people that he was
conferring with.  I think they wanted to get a sense of
what had happened and how we are going to handle this
J. CHIAFARI
26
whole situation.  I think we were more -- we wound up
going almost more north of where we were.  To get out
of where we were, we almost wound up walking almost to
Chambers Street, to where that overhead ramp was by
Chambers Street.
     Q.   Stuyvesant High School?
     A.   We parked ourselves.  We had to take a
breather.  We took -- I remember taking my bunker coat
off, took my helmet off and it was amazing.  That was
not even my gear.  I was wearing the other fellow that
works with us, Eddie, who has a size 12 foot.  Here I
wear a size 6 shoe and I was wearing twice the size I
normally do.   I can't believe I ran in his shoes, but
I did.
          We took some time there.  We were totally
devastated by what had happened.  We had to get our
thoughts together.  We didn't know who was where.  Our
concern was how many guys did we really lose.  It was
almost inevitable that we would lose a lot of people.
Initial estimate was maybe we probably lost about 200
guys in those collapses.  Nobody had heard at that
point from Chief of Department Ganci.  We didn't hear
from Chief Nigro or Chief Cassano.  It just seems like
what happened to the structure of who was there
earlier?
J. CHIAFARI
27
          There was very little radio contact going
on.  It started on the radio to hear Chief Cruthers
talking.  It seemed like he started to converse and get
some kind of command going on again, but he wasn't at
the location that we were at.  I don't know where he
wound up.  I heard his voice on the handy talky a
couple of times.
          We were probably at that location, this is
now after 10:30, after the second collapse had taken
place.  We were probably at that location a good 15 to
20 minutes, maybe more.  I couldn't say.  We definitely
 -- again, we were -- didn't know the whereabouts of
where people were.  I remember seeing Steve Mosiello
there, who was with Chief Ganci right before the second
collapse.  He expressed that he didn't know his
whereabouts and it was very important that -- we wanted
to know where he was, his last location was known by
Steve and he expressed that to Chief Turi and I think
we were -- ummm -- concerned about let's try to find
him and see where he might be, because we know the
location where he was last.
          We had gotten two truck companies that were
staging at that point.  Companies were starting to
J. CHIAFARI
28
stage.  I think one of them was 144 from Queens.  I
don't remember who the second one was.  We started to
 -- tried to head back on West Street, put our bunker
gear back on.  I remember there were two truck
companies, Chief Turi, myself.  We started to head back
toward -- on West Street.  Back to the collapse area.
          We wound up in an area where we couldn't get
too far and because of the debris, we knew where we
wanted to get to.  We wound up going into a lobby of
the financial -- I think it was the Financial Center.
Yes.  We went into the lobby of the World Financial
Center.  Building number 3.  I remember going through
that and what we wound up doing is going out the
courtyard of that building.  Actually the entrance
where we went through was between number 3 and number 4
I believe.
          We went through the courtyard, into the back
of the Winter Garden area.  I remember seeing the
harbor area there.  We walked around the entire park.
We wound up walking around side along where the number
2 World Financial Center.  Where the Merrill Lynch
building was.  We pretty much wound up down along -- I
want to say we wound up down by Liberty Street.  Down
by Liberty Street.
J. CHIAFARI
29
          It was there a group of us couldn't go any
further.  There was so much debris in the street.  The
whole area was littered.  Our intention was to get back
on to West Street and the whole area was littered.  I
remember across the street from where we were, there
was a high rise apartment building.  I remember seeing
a fire on the upper floor, the fifth or sixth floor
that was burning pretty good inside the apartment
building.  It didn't look like anybody was there.
There was a pumper that looked like it was starting to
 -- maybe if anything, hit it either with a deck gun
from the street side, but nobody at that point was
involved with the fire.
          This is -- I mean at this point here I
couldn't say exactly what time we were there.  I
remember we were trying to get our way on to the other
side of West.  It was just too littered.  We couldn't
get through.  So what we decided do was walk back to
where we were and we entered at -- I almost want to say
we were in the World Financial building.  We wanted to
get into the parking garage to get us into the ramp to
get us back into the West Street side.  I think it was
number 2 World Financial Center, the Merrill Lynch
building.
J. CHIAFARI
30
          We went to the courtyard entrance from the
harbor side down the stairs into the garage area.  We
went up the ramp, but the ramp was littered with
debris.  We couldn't go any further.  It was just too
hard to get to that area.  I remember there was a
search line in place on that ramp.  That ramp was
filled with water.  I don't know if it was from a
busted pipe.  There was just water flowing in from the
street side or whatever.  But that was pretty much
flooded with water.  I remember doing that and coming
back out to the courtyard area.
          Unfortunately, because of the size boots I
was wearing my feet were aching me.  I was getting
blisters on my feet, trying to keep up with everybody
and their walking.  Everybody was pretty much tired
too, from running and all.  We took a short break.  We
were in the courtyard and we decided we are going to go
back out onto West Street, back to where we were, back
to Vesey and West and try to get into where Chief Ganci
might have been from that point on.
          A lot of what I was doing after that point
was primarily spending time at the command post,
because the way I was walking, I definitely couldn't
have been no use in continuing in the debris area.  I
J. CHIAFARI
31
felt it was not a good idea.  I said okay, I'm going to
go back to the command post and I'm going to work with
field comm.  Chief Butler was at the command post and
we are trying to get some semblance of a staging area
for companies that were already in and coming in.
Trying to coordinate equipment coming in and trying to
handle communications and helping them out.
     Q.   Before the first collapse, you said you saw
Chief Cross and Captain Stackpole.  When did you notice
they weren't there any more or did you not?
     A.   I want to say it was -- these are people that
aren't there now.  Stackpole, Cross and Downey, they
were at the command post.  I want to say that shortly
before tower two collapsed, is when they left the
command post.  I believe when Chief Ganci sent them,
they were talking about going in to the -- I don't know
if they were going into tower one or tower two, but
they definitely left the command post.  They went up to
West Street.  I don't know where they actually went.
          That was shortly before.  That was almost to
 -- they were at our presence almost five minutes
before, maybe ten.
     Q.   Commissioner Feehan, was he there at all?
     A.   Commissioner Feehan, I saw him in the lobby
J. CHIAFARI
32
of tower one when we first had gotten there.  I
remember seeing Tom Fitzpatrick, Feehan, Von Essen,
again in the lobby of tower one.  It was almost like
converging.  I was alongside Chief Turi, but he was
talking directly with Chief Hayden, Fitzpatrick, Von
Essen and Feehan in those areas.
     Q.   You heard Crawford's transmission after the
first collapse?
     A.   After the first collapse.  I heard him, I
want to say approximately a quarter after 10 is when I
heard him.  Again, very calmly, unknown where his
location was.  I almost wanted to ask him where he was
and tell him what was going on out in the street, but
because he was so calm about his transmission I felt he
had a grasp of what was going on and realized what his
need had to be done.  I remember even seeing -- oh,
here is another person I saw at the command post who
later did not survive, a guy I previously worked with
Ray York, who, from my understanding, he came from the
fire zone over in mid Manhattan.  I think he was on
light duty.  He saw me.  I saw him.  It was almost like
a wave type of thing.
          I'm saying in my mind, what is he doing
here.  I know he's not with a fire company, but I saw
J. CHIAFARI
33
him there and then later on realizing that he didn't
make it.  It's amazing how you see a face and knowing
their whereabouts afterwards, that they weren't there.
     Q.   You saw him at the command post?
     A.   At the command post on the West Street side.
     Q.   Not at tower one?
     A.   No.
     Q.   On West Street?
     A.   Yes, in other words this is before 10
o'clock.  This is, I want to say a quarter to ten, 10
to 10 that I first saw him.  He was amongst people that
were there that showed up at the command post.  That
was at the ramp.  I can't think of anybody else that I
saw initially that I know is not here, except, of
course, first seeing Chief Burns, who I later knew went
over to tower two, the lobby command post of tower
two.  He was in the lobby command of tower one.
          Again, Chief Ganci, I saw him at the ramp,
because he was with us up until the point of that
collapse.
          That's it.
     Q.   That's it.  Okay.  This concludes the
interview at 1450.
File No. 9110216
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
             CHIEF LAKIOTES
   Interview Date:  December 3, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
A. LAKIOTES 2
          CHIEF KING:  Today's date is December
     3rd, 2001.  The time is 1340 hours, and this
     is Battalion Chief Stephen King, Safety
     Battalion, the Fire Department, City of New
     York.
          I'm conducting an interview with --
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Chief Art Lakiotes of
     the Safety Command.
          CHIEF KING:  This interview is taking
     place in the Safety Command office on the
     seventh floor of Nine Metrotech.  There is
     nobody else present in the office during
     this interview, and we're speaking in
     regards to the events of September 11th,
     2001.
     Q.   Art, you can begin.
     A.   Okay, Steve.  I responded from home.
Let me get the time line again to orient myself
to when I got there.  It was before the tower
collapsed.  The tower collapsed 9:55.  I must
have been there maybe -- oh, I guess 20 minutes,
maybe half hour prior to the collapse.  I got
there about I guess 9:25.
          I went through the Battery Tunnel.  I
A. LAKIOTES 3
parked my car on the Manhattan side of the
Battery Tunnel.  I put my bunker gear on, walked
up to West and Liberty.  At West and Liberty I
ran into a command post with Chief Jerry Barbara
and Commissioner Steve Gregory.
          I spoke with Jerry for a few minutes,
looked at the situation.  It was kind of weird,
surreal, almost.  Jerry informed me that it was
going to be a staging area for Brooklyn companies
coming in from the Battery Tunnel from Brooklyn.
          He said to me stay here, take command
of the staging area.  He was going to go to the
command post in tower two, in the lobby of tower
two.  He suggested I keep his aide with me until
the 32 Battalion had come on the scene and then
to send his aide with them.  Jerry then left to
go to tower two.
          During the interim a few units came in.
We kept them in the staging area, made sure that
West Street was open to the Battery for
ambulances.  Steve -- Commissioner Gregory was
taking information from I guess communications
about the companies that were coming into this
staging area.
A. LAKIOTES 4
          32 Battalion showed up approximately I
would think ten minutes before the collapse.  I
let them know what we had as far as the staging
area situation.  It was obvious that it was a
very volatile situation with the towers burning
and unfortunately people jumping out of tower
one.
          After briefing them I guess for about
ten minutes or so, I turned to Jerry's aide,
whose name escapes me right now, that he would
tell Jerry that companies were coming into the
staging area and to be in contact with us via
handy talky for any resources he might need.
          Before I could finish that sentence, we
heard just a loud noise and looked up and tower
two was starting to collapse.  With that
everybody just started running.  I ran down West
Street, made a right on Albany before it caught
up to me.  It knocked me down, blew me over.
Obviously it was a pretty scary situation.
          The smoke clears, we regroup and go
back.  I ran into Dennis Oberg from 114 who had
come on the scene prior to the collapse.  He
started running roll calls on the units we
A. LAKIOTES 5
thought we had in the area.  It was pretty
chaotic.
          I noticed one or two of the fire trucks
and some of the ambulances were on fire.  We
thought about possibly putting them out.  I don't
remember the time frame except for this time line
when tower one came down, and that was
approximately a half hour later.
          Most of that half hour was taken up
running roll calls, orienting ourselves to what
had happened.  Probably it was a good 15, 20
minutes before the smoke cleared or the dust
cleared where we actually could start operating
again to some degree of efficiency.
          Tower one now comes down.  Same thing
but this time some of us take off straight down
West Street, because we realized later on,
subconsciously we wanted to be near buildings.
We all thought it was secondary explosives or
more planes or whatever.
          I went down West Street again.  The
blast caught us and I guess halfway down going
through the Battery.  Same thing:  heavy dust,
smoke, whatever.  It took about 15-20 minutes, I
A. LAKIOTES 6
would guess, to have everything clear.
          Again, regroup, go back.  Almost all
the rigs were on fire, the ones that were close
to Liberty.  I sat up stress lines and started
trying to make rescues and run roll calls and do
everything else for the rest of the day, really.
That's about it.
     Q.   When you went back there, who were you
with when you went back and regrouped the second
time?
     A.   It's tough.  It's tough.  Without being
out in the field for a while as far as knowing --
I think it was a chief and the name escapes me
right now from Staten Island was there with me.
The chief from 32 I know got banged up.  I had
seen him I don't know if it was before the
collapse of tower one or after the collapse of
tower one.  He was banged up.  He was going to go
to the hospital.
          I think almost everybody I saw in our
area prior to the two collapses made it out okay,
except certain people like Jerry who went into
tower two or headed over in that direction.
          It was just a matter of trying to get
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A. LAKIOTES 7
yourself together the whole day and try to assess
the damage to our units.  I don't know how much
more I can say.
     Q.   That's fine.
          CHIEF KING:  The time is now 1349
     hours, and the interview is completed.
File No. 9110217
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
          CHIEF FRANK FELLINI
   Interview Date:  December 3, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
F. FELLINI 2
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Today's date is
     December 3rd, 2001.  The time is exactly
     1700 hours.  This is Chief Lakiotes, Safety
     Command of the New York City Fire
     Department.  I'm conducting an interview
     with --
          CHIEF FELLINI:  Chief Frank Fellini,
     operations.
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  -- regarding the
     events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Frank, would you tell us where you were
as you were responding to the incident.
     A.   I was home.  It was an off tour for me.
My wife called me down to look at the TV.  A
plane had struck a tower, the north tower, of the
World Trade Center.  As I watched, the second
plane hit.  Almost exactly the same time, the
phone rang.  It was Pat Cotton, my aide.  I told
him, "Let's go."  He picked me up.  Prior to
getting to the house, the first tower came down.
          As we were responding, we were just
about at the point where the Brooklyn-Queens
Expressway and the Long Island Expressway meet,
we saw the second tower come down.
F. FELLINI 3
          When I actually got to West Street,
Chief Callan was there, Chief Turi was there.  I
was told that everyone else was dead.  At some
point after that, Chief Nigro and Chief Cruthers
arrived where the command post was.  It was
agreed that they would handle the command post
and I would take over the operations post on West
and Vesey.
          The major concern at that time at that
particular location was number Seven, building
number seven, which had taken a big hit from the
north tower.  When it fell, it ripped steel out
from between the third and sixth floors across
the facade on Vesey Street.  We were concerned
that the fires on several floors and the missing
steel would result in the building collapsing.
          So for the next five or six hours we
kept firefighters from working anywhere near that
building, which included the whole north side of
the World Trade Center complex.  Eventually
around 5:00 or a little after, building number
seven came down.
          We just started organizing things on
the north side of the north foot bridge to remove
F. FELLINI 4
apparatus that was moveable and recover the
bodies that we could locate and remove -- in the
meantime the job was sectored with Chiefs Blaich,
Visconti, Hayden and Haring, having different
sectors of the World Trade Center complex.
Blaich, Hayden and Visconti were all working
south in the north tower, the north bridge.
Chief Haring was by City Hall Park on the Church
Street side of the operation.
          At some point in the afternoon prior to
number seven coming down, Chief Nigro, Chief
Callan, Chief Cruthers, Chief Meyers, Chief
Butler and I had a meeting in the auditorium of
the high school that was located around Murray
Street.
     Q.   Stuyvesant?
     A.   Yeah.  We decided how we would break up
and handle the situation as far as who was going
to stay and who would go back and go home and
return at a later time.  That started the
shifting and the way we shifted personnel at the
command level at the World Trade Center.
          All I can remember is speaking to one
person every, it seemed like two minutes who had
F. FELLINI 5
a problem or wanted to do something or needed
something, or had something to offer.  It was
just continuous for 15 or 20 hours at a time
dealing with one individual after another.
          At that time my major concern was to
get through the north bridge so that we could
unite the whole site along West Street and start
working where we would support each other and the
heavy equipment could move.
          Fairly quickly, within a day or two, we
had the north side of the north bridge cleared.
By the end of the week, we were through the north
bridge and had connected West Street.  We could
move equipment and trucks.
          That was to me the key to the whole job
was the trucks.  If we could keep the trucks
moving and take debris out of there and material
was searched and removed, the site became that
much smaller.
          It was probably 48 when we started.  We
knew that the footprint of the World Trade Center
was 16 acres.  Within three or four weeks, we
were within the footprint.  Now the work was
concentrated at the two towers, the bathtub area,
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F. FELLINI 6
which was basically 200 by 800.
          That's it.  I can't --
     Q.   What you're saying is arriving after
the collapse you have no knowledge of where
anybody was sent or what assignments were given
out up to that point?
     A.   No.  I consider it a gift from God that
I got there after the collapse, not just because
of the physical aspects but because of what the
people who were there earlier saw.  They're going
to carry some of this a long time.
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  This concludes the
     interview at approximately 1710.  Thank you.
File No. 9110218
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
          LIEUTENANT GARY WOOD
   Interview Date:  December 4, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
G. WOOD 2
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Today's date is
     December 4th, 2001.  The time is
     approximately 11:20.  This is Chief Art
     Lakiotes of the Safety Battalion.  I'm
     conducting an interview with --
          LIEUTENANT WOOD:  Lieutenant Gary Wood,
     Ladder Company 131.
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  -- regarding the
     events of September 11th, 2000.
     Q.   Gary, I explained to you the purpose of
the interview.  Just take us through your
response and the events of that day as far as
your experience.
     A.   We were in quarters, and we got a
ticket to respond to the toll plaza of the
Battery Tunnel.  This is after the first building
had been hit by a plane.  Leaving quarters, we
could see the building.  Debris was in the air.
          We went to the toll plaza along with
maybe eight or ten other companies, and we were
in the toll plaza when we saw -- some of my guys
actually visibly saw the second plane hit the
south tower.
          At that time all the computers went
G. WOOD 3
off, and we were directed to respond onto I think
it was West Street and -- is Vesey the one that's
on the corner of the north tower?
     Q.   Yes.
     A.   Vesey.  West and Vesey.
          We started to go through the tunnel.
There was a delay in the tunnel due to a car with
a flat tire, we found out.
          We came out.  After about five minutes,
we went north on West Street.  We were directed
by officers in the street to continue to the
pedestrian overpass that was just north of the
north tower.  We parked our rigs there.  I
remember parking right behind -- I think it was
101 I parked behind.
          We got out and we were told to now walk
back south on West Street on the opposite side of
the World Trade Center.  So we watched these
people falling and saw the whole disaster
unfolding.  We went down to the corner of Liberty
and West Street, and there was a battalion chief
there.  I don't know who he was.  I never got his
name.  Dr. Kelly was there at the same time.
          Apparently there was some type of
G. WOOD 4
debris that was now coming off the building prior
to the collapse.  So they told us to move down
Liberty Street on the west side of West Street.
There was another building down there that has
another overpass, and they wanted us down under
that.
          We went down under there.  There must
have been the chief, maybe a couple, three, four
companies at that time.  Whatever the condition
was, it resolved itself.  They said, okay, now
cross West Street and go to the corner of West
and Liberty opposite the Marriott Hotel; and look
up, make sure nobody the falling, and run into
the Marriott Hotel; and there's a battalion chief
in there, deputy chief in there, that will direct
you further.
          We went across Liberty into the
Marriott Hotel.  There's a small restaurant
called the Twelve Shippers Restaurant I think
someone told me.  Go in there, up two flights of
steps, two steps of stairs, into the carpeted
lobby of the Marriott.  We came in there.  The
lobby is narrow and long.  You could see it go up
into the distance.  It took a little angular
G. WOOD 5
turn.  There was a desk and bank of elevators.
          When we first came in, apparently they
had been setting up the staging area there for a
long time.  There were tables along the walls
with bottles of water on them.  Companies had
already stacked up their extra cylinders and
their hose links against the wall.
          I talked to my guys just to wait right
there.  There was a little I guess you would call
it a conference area, lounge area right there.
Other companies were already there.  I told them
to just stay right there, I'll go down and check
in.
          I went down maybe 50, 60 feet, and I
found a chief surrounded by another group of
officers and told him who I was.  He said either
stand fast or stay put till you hear from us.  I
went back down the hallway, found my guys, was in
the process of telling them to just buddy up,
stay together and we're going to be used shortly,
when one of my guys who was facing me -- I had my
back to the window.  One of my guys facing me
said, "Look."  I didn't get a chance to turn
around, but apparently all the firemen out on
G. WOOD 6
West Street on the other side, following the same
path that we had taken, had now started to run
because the building was collapsing.
          There was no place to hide.  We just
hit the deck wherever we were.  The windows on
the West Street side all blew out.  The sound was
just like freight trains coming right over your
head.  Dust, smoke, debris falling from the
ceiling.  It lasted maybe 25, 30 seconds.  It
seemed like forever, though.
          When it finally stopped, I got up, made
sure we had everybody.  We looked around, to the
extent that we could, to see if there was anyone
else.  There was a couple civilians, a janitor, a
woman who I believe was maybe a cafeteria worker
or something.  She had some kind of uniform on.
It was hard to tell, it was all covered with
debris.
          We looked for our tools which we had
placed down on the ground, and they were covered
with debris and covered with dust.  We couldn't
find anything.  We made another quick survey.  We
reversed ourselves to find the door that we had
come in, and we found that an overhead door had
G. WOOD 7
fallen.  It was a door we presume was used to
close off the restaurant from the lobby of the
hotel.  We don't know.  A couple of my guys
lifted it up.  We got it up about four feet,
where it stayed.  We went under that, got out
into the restaurant itself, which was pretty
demolished.
          We made our way through the
restaurant -- it was a narrow restaurant -- and
out into the street.  There was a crater maybe 30
feet wide, irregular shape.  We had to go down
one side of that and up the other.  The guys did
it -- I did it on my fanny over pieces of steel
and back and forth.
          We got on the other side.  I had
another roll call, and I discovered that one of
my guys, when he went through the crater, came up
on the other side, had been grabbed by someone --
he doesn't even know who, it turns out; he's a
fireman or policeman or EMT -- and put in an
ambulance because we had abrasions to his eyes,
which we all had but he had them very severe.
They took him away.
          He heard me calling on the radio, but
G. WOOD 8
apparently he was going faster further than I
could get him.  So we thought that he had fallen
back into the debris for a while.  We couldn't
find him.  We looked and couldn't find him.  Then
someone had said -- I had sent one of the guys
down to the corner.  I said maybe the building's
down that way.  Go down to the corner.
          So one of my guys had gone down, I
think had gone on Liberty Street on the other
side of West Street, where we had originally come
from.  He was calling for him on the radio.
Nobody was answering.  Nobody was -- there was
nobody there.  There was nobody left.  But he
said he had heard him briefly.  He had heard him
trying to get back to us.  So now we were certain
he was alive, but we didn't know where he was.
          Right at that moment we heard the
second tower start to come down.  We had found a
Daily News photographer in the interim with a
broken leg, so we were dragging him with us.
When the second tower started to come down, one
of my guys said look in there, there's a doorway
we can get through, a doorway to a deli or
superette.  We ran in there, hit the ground in
G. WOOD 9
there.  The second tower came down.  We heard the
debris hit the streets.
          We got out of there, made our way south
and east, tried to get to the water to get some
air.  You couldn't see, couldn't breathe.  We
made our way down maybe another quarter mile
until we found an area where EMTs were treating
people.  We had them treat us.  We had numerous
injuries:  back, eyes, everything.
          Then two cops came running out of the
building that we were in front of and told us
there was a substantial gas leak and they were
evacuating the pier.  It's like, okay.  We got on
the boats, and from there two of us wound up in
Staten Island, two of us wound up in Lutheran,
and two of us wound up in someplace in New
Jersey.  We found Shawn Halperin during our trip
too.  We took him with us.
          That's about it.
     Q.   That's it?
     A.   That's about it.
     Q.   Do you remember any of those chiefs
that you ran into or any firefighters?
     A.   I don't remember anyone in the lobby.
G. WOOD 10
     Q.   Do you know who was giving the orders
to do what in the lobby?
     A.   No, never got -- his back was to me, so
I never saw -- like I said, he was surrounded by
other guys.  I figured I would get his name off
the back of his jacket later for the report.
     Q.   Was there anybody in that lobby that
you might have picked up a name or anything that
you know now did not make it?
     A.   No, I don't know -- this is strictly
assumption.  I assume that 279 was in that same
building maybe a minute or two ahead of us.
Maybe 101 was in that building maybe a minute or
two ahead of us.  I don't know.
          The area where I had gone to check in
with the chief was completely destroyed.  There
was a wall of debris there.  So it was literally
30, 40 feet difference between what was left of
the building and what -- I think 122 -- this
again is conjecture because I didn't see them.
Someone told me they were in that same area with
us, although I don't know that.  I don't know
that for certain.
          I saw the chief of department on West
G. WOOD 11
Street shortly after we parked the rig.  I saw
Battalion Chief Grezlak maybe halfway -- equal
distance between the World Trade Center, also on
the west side of West Street.  Just strictly saw
him, but I recognized Joe from --
     Q.   204.
     A.   Yeah.
          Dr. Kelly was one of the individuals
that was with us on Liberty on the west side of
West Street under the overpass when they thought
the debris was falling.
          That's it.  I really don't remember.
There were names that I had gotten then --
     Q.   You don't remember.  You didn't
recognize them?
     A.   No, I didn't recognize anybody.  There
was a lot of confusion.
          279 we think was in that building
because their engine company was relatively close
to that intersection of Liberty and West, because
that's where we found the chauffeur from 279
later.  Their rig was right on a hydrant right
there.  So we assume that they took that hydrant
and went into that building, but we don't know
G. WOOD 12
for certain.
     Q.   So you came out almost the same way you
went in?
     A.   Came out -- we had only been in the
building -- I don't think we were in the building
more than five minutes.
     Q.   You went back past the south pedestrian
crosswalk?
     A.   Yeah, right, we came out -- we had gone
in -- we couldn't have gone further into the
building than -- well, I went further than the
guys did because I told them to stay put, stay in
one place.  The whole company as a whole when the
collapse occurred, we weren't more than 20 feet
into the building.  So we knew exactly where the
exit was and we went back out.
     Q.   You said there were a lot of guys
around that particular chief that was in the
staging area.
     A.   It was a chief.
     Q.   Can you give me a figure?  15?  20?
Plus?
     A.   You couldn't get to him.  You couldn't
even shoulder your way in to him.  So there had
G. WOOD 13
to be about ten guys around him.  He had about
ten guys around him in a semicircle.  He was
facing them.  He was in the process of giving one
of them instructions, which I assume he was
telling him to take a certain stairwell and
perform a certain function.  He was just about to
talk to another one when I said, "Chief, 131,
we're here, we're in the lobby."  He said either
stand fast or stay put or something.
          I would say maybe eight to ten.  They
might have all been officers.  There might have
been a couple officers with their men.  I don't
remember.
          It was hard to pick out anyone after
the collapse.  You couldn't tell the difference
between -- you were there.  You couldn't tell the
difference between daytime --
     Q.   I can't remember if I saw you there.
     A.   When we came out of the building before
the second collapse, we didn't know we were
outside the building until we ran into a light
pole that had a walk/don't walk sign on it.  Then
we realized we're outside.  We didn't know.  We
didn't know.
G. WOOD 14
     Q.   Fortunately the wind was blowing off
the water and was clearing it up a little bit on
the south side, on the west side a lot faster
than it probably did up towards Church.
          So I guess that's about it; right?
     A.   Yeah, I wish I could be of more help.
     Q.   No, no, no.  You have been a lot of
help, a lot of help.
          So you were actually in the lobby of
the Marriott in the staging area?
     A.   The lobby of the Marriott, right off
the corner of Liberty and West.
     Q.   Right, the south side of tower two.
     A.   And they were using that as a staging
area because there were cylinders, Scott
cylinders, and hose links had been deposited
there.
     Q.   So you came out the same way you went
in?
     A.   That's correct.
     Q.   So that lobby or that west side of
tower two was still intact after it came down, to
some degree?
     A.   Right, after the first collapse -- now,
G. WOOD 15
I'm not certain how many floors remained, because
I only saw it up close maybe a week later when we
went back.  I know that at that point a week
later only maybe two and a half stories remained.
     Q.   We don't know what the second collapse
did to the Marriott.
     A.   You don't know.  You don't know if
there were 10 floors left after the first
collapse, 15.
     Q.   I think there was a lot more left of
tower two when it cleared, but there was a lot
less after tower one came down.
     A.   I think that's probably correct.  I
know a lot of stuff hit the street.  When we hid
in that deli during the second collapse, there
was a lot of stuff hitting --
     Q.   Where was this deli?
     A.   I'm not really certain.  I think it was
off of --
     Q.   Here's a map.  You can orient yourself
a little bit better, maybe.  Now here's the
Marriott.
     A.   Yeah, I see that.  We came out.
Depending upon what street we were on, I would
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G. WOOD 16
bet the deli was on West Street here in the
vicinity of Cedar, I would think.
     Q.   Right, okay.  There was nothing left
here.  This was all messed --
     A.   Maybe it was on the end street.  I
can't really tell you.
     Q.   Okay.  That's fine.
     A.   We made our way out, and I guess we
made our way down here somehow.
          279 was right around here somewhere,
right around Cedar, maybe Albany.  That's where I
think they were.
     Q.   Yeah, that's true.
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Okay.  This concludes
     the interview.  It is approximately 11:35.
     Thank you.
          LIEUTENANT WOOD:  You're welcome,
     Chief.
File No. 9110219
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER MARK RUPPERT
   Interview Date:  December 4, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
M. RUPPERT 2
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Today's date is
     December 4th, 2001.  The time is 11:45.  I
     am Lieutenant Chief Art Lakiotes here at the
     command of the New York City Fire
     Department.  I am conducting an interview
     with --
          FIREFIGHTER RUPPERT:  Mark Ruppert.
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  -- Firefighter Mark
     Ruppert regarding the events of September
     11th, 2001.
     Q.   Mark, if you would, just take me
through the time you got on the rigs, responded
and what transpired during this event.
A. Wegottotheboxabout10to9. We went to a staging area outside the Battery Tunnel with about five other companies that met us there, 101 being one of them, and 202 and 205.
          We were watching the tower burn when
the second one hit.  We actually saw the second
one hit and the plane burst into flames.  Not
even a minute later we were sent in to the box.
So we went through the tunnel.
          After we got through the tunnel, we
pulled up right in front of the building, weaving
M. RUPPERT 3
in and out of the other trucks.  We got a spot
out in front there.  We got out and we said, you
know what -- the chauffeur pulled the rig around
the corner.  There were so many rigs there
already.
          We went across the street, across West
Street, and we were waiting there.  As we were
waiting there -- well, you don't want to know
about the bodies jumping.  You know all that.
     Q.   Whatever you feel like talking about,
just tell me.
     A.   We were there for about 15 minutes, 10,
15 minutes.  Then we got orders to follow up.  So
we went under the overpass.  We crossed Liberty,
went under the overpass and then proceeded into
the lobby of the Marriott, crossing Liberty.
          As we entered the lobby, we entered it
through the bar area.  Then we went into the
lounge area which connected, from what I
understand, to tower one and tower two.
          We were told to get comfortable because
we were going to be there a while.  Some got real
comfortable.  I left my bunker pants on and took
them off when I -- I think I left my coat in
M. RUPPERT 4
there.  I took my coat off because it was hot,
took the tank off, put our tools down.  I went to
use the bathroom, got something to drink there.
They had water set up.  There was a lot of
companies in the lobby there.
     Q.   What time was that?  Do you have any
idea how many guys were in that lobby at that
time?  10?  20?  30?  40?
     A.   I would definitely say between 75 and
100, I would say.  It was full.  The whole lobby
was --
     Q.   Full of firefighters?
     A.   Uh-huh.
     Q.   Lieutenant Wood went to the command
post staging area for instructions?
     A.   Yeah.  Let's see.  He took a walk down
there, down the lobby, and came back and said --
actually when we went that way, he told us to go
to the bathroom, try to use the phone, which I
tried but I didn't get through on my phone call.
We used the bathroom, whatever.
          When I got back, he was back.  He said,
"All right, we're going to go down to --"  I
thought he said we're going to go to work.  I
M. RUPPERT 5
thought we were going to go relieve companies up
there.  He said we're going to go to a staging
area down in the other tower, the north tower.
          Basically just at that time I had my --
I got my coat back on.  I had my mask in my hand.
I was about to put it on my back and --
     Q.   You started hearing a noise?
     A.   No, no.  Looking out the window -- I
was facing the window, and I saw everybody
running.
     Q.   Gary said the same thing.  You knew
something was going on.
     A.   I yelled.  I said, "Everybody run.
Something is going on."  We were basically
looking out and you saw everybody running.  Then
you look up.  You hear rumbling.  You hear
something.  So you look up and we saw the
reflection of the building across the street.  We
knew something was coming down.
          Then we just said hit the deck.
Everybody was running towards the back of the
lobby.  We ran into an area where we were -- we
were running kind of towards the bar area where
we came in.  So I guess instinct tells you to go
M. RUPPERT 6
the way you came in, so instinct.
          You felt it all coming.  You felt the
rumbling.  You heard it hitting the floor.  Then
it was just that hit and the wind came and was
blowing us.  Back into the bar area is where it
blew us.  Somewhere along the line a rolldown
gate came down between the lobby and the bar, and
we realized that was the only way out after a few
minutes of being in there.  We didn't know what
was in there.  We lifted the gate up to get out.
          What were you going to say?  You were
going to say something?
     Q.   I was running down Liberty.  I was one
of the guys you saw running, because we could see
it actually happening.  We looked up -- see, I'm
surprised -- what was in my mind and I could
never forget it is the noise it made.
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   It was like a train --
     A.   A freight train.
     Q.   -- going over my head.  When Gary said
that you thought you heard something, it really
was incredible.  He didn't hear what we heard.
We knew he was right under it, but we heard from
M. RUPPERT 7
the outside.
     A.   Did you hear the snapping on that?  Did
you hear the floor snapping?  After the first one
came, we wound up going across the street.  We
wound up -- we were going where the windows were.
We were going out that way.  We didn't realize we
were out of the building until we were in the
middle of West Street, basically.  There was a
crevice that we were climbing down and all this
steel --
     Q.   What was the visibility like?
     A.   It was very hazy, very thick.  But you
could see.  You look back and you couldn't really
see the building -- anything.  But once you were
across the street, you look and you see the
structure, steel sticking up still.
           Then when we were across the street --
as we were going, there was a guy in a bush.  He
might have been a reporter of some kind.  David
something.  I grabbed someone else and said,
"Let's get this guy."  We pulled him across the
street, and we took him with us into -- there was
a deli over there.  We put him in there.
          Then as we said what are we going to do
M. RUPPERT 8
now, what are we going to do with this guy,
what's our next move, that's when the second
building -- I guess 10 minutes later?  15 minutes
later?  I don't know.  It seemed like that much.
          But then we saw the other one coming
down.  Part of you wanted to keep looking because
it was like holy cow.  You could hear it going
"kachoo, kachoo, kachoo."  Now outside it's total
hysteria, and you had time because it's this big
building.  You had -- I don't know, how long did
it take?  Looking at it we said we better get in.
          We started running.  We realized we've
got to get cover.  We all started diving into
this store, pushing each other in, pushing a guy
and he's pushing you.  You get in there, and it's
basically the same thing.  That wind was blowing
and debris messed that building up.  All the
windows were broken in the front of the building.
We thought we were buried in there.  Somebody
started panicking, and somebody took over and
told them to shut the hell up.
     Q.   That bad?
     A.   Yeah.
          Then somebody walked outside and said
M. RUPPERT 9
let's see if we can get outside.  It was clear.
You couldn't see anything, but we could walk out
and we weren't buried.  The dust was settling.
          We grabbed that guy again and we pulled
him down West Street to the water, and they took
him in the boat.  Then we walked along the water
to where they were evacuating people.  We got a
bunch of people on.  Everybody was standing
around.  Finally officers said, "You guys, we're
going to go now."
          That's basically it.
     Q.   You don't know how much time you have
on the job?  I asked your chief about it, but I
don't remember.
     A.   I have like three years.
     Q.   Okay.  So don't know of anybody you saw
in the lobby except for your own company?
     A.   I remember seeing guys from 101.
     Q.   You do?
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   At what point in time do you remember
seeing them?
     A.   I saw them on the outside of the tunnel
when we met there.  Then we pulled into 101.  I
M. RUPPERT 10
know the faces.  I think it was a guy from 122.
I saw 122 in there.  101, I'm pretty sure they
were down in front.  We were in the lobby.  They
went down further, and we were on this side.
     Q.   You were more towards the Liberty
Street side?
     A.   We were more towards Liberty, yeah, and
they were in front of there.  There was dozens of
firemen.  I don't know why at that point -- I
know after we came down and I was walking out and
I couldn't find my helmet and my tools.  I was
kicking a helmet, so I shook it off, I put it on
my head, and I went out, thinking it was mine.
          A guy when I was outside, he said,
"You're from 58?"  I said, "No, I just found this
helmet."  I didn't even know what number was on
it.  He said, "That's my helmet."  So whether it
was or not, he got his helmet back.  So I know 58
was in there.
     Q.   You didn't see anybody from 101 after
that?
     A.   No, no.  After that it was who was with
us there.  Basically it was guys from our
company.  There was a pedestrian or two.  That
M. RUPPERT 11
was about it, really.  I can't hardly remember.
I know it was us from our company.  There were a
few other firefighters, that guy there from 58.
That's it.  I can't remember anybody else being
with us there.  There weren't too many with us.
There were about 10, 12 guys there, maybe.
That's it.
     Q.   Your memory is better than mine,
believe me.
     A.   Part of you starts searching, thinking
you're going to find tools, find my helmet, any
other guys.  It was just such a mess.
     Q.   How was the visibility?
     A.   They said we're going out, everybody
out, grab people and we're going out.
     Q.   How was the visibility in the lobby of
the hotel after the collapse?
     A.   It was settling.  It was like a thick
smoke.  It was thick.  It was a thick dust.  You
could see.  It was settling.  At first you
couldn't see a thing.  I was worried about
breathing.  I couldn't see.  I had my hood over.
Good thing I had the hood.  I had that over my
mouth, and I was breathing through that.  You're
M. RUPPERT 12
kicking a lot of dust and dirt and papers.
Everybody looked like a statue.  All you could
see was the guys and the mouth.
     Q.   The eyes were all red.
     A.   Yeah.  It seemed like everybody was
going "blah" with their mouth and spitting. We
went to the guy across the street and we kind of
tried to towel up, get the junk out.  It was bad,
but you could see.  It was like a thick fog.  You
could actually see to get to walk.  You could see
in front of you.
          I wish --
     Q.   You did fine.
     A.   I'm pretty aware of when I go to jobs I
look at different companies that are there.
Q. Sure.
     A.   I just wish I would have a little
more --
     Q.   Let me tell you, it was traumatic for
everybody that was there.  A lot of us don't
remember a lot that went on.
          Okay.  Thank you.
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  This concludes the
     interview.  It is approximately 12:00.
File No. 9110220
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER EDWARD DAVIS
   Interview Date:  December 4, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
E. DAVIS
2
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Today's date is
     December 4, 2001.  The time is approximately
     11:10.  This is Chief Art Lakiotes of the Safety
     Battalion, New York City Fire Department.  I'm
     conducting an interview with --
          FIREFIGHTER EDWARD DAVIS:  Firefighter Edward
     Davis.
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Who was assigned
     to Battalion 32.  Regarding the events of
     September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Eddie, just take me through your response to
the World Trade Center and what transpired after that.
     A.   Responded to the World Trade Center with the
21 Battalion.  The 32 Battalion car was at the rock.
Responded with them, arrived about 2 minutes prior to
the first collapse, which I believe was the south
tower.  Upon that collapse, was upon the scene also for
the second collapse, and conducted a search and
attempted rescue from that point on.
     Q.   Did you see anybody else that was there that
may have not made it, can you think of anybody?
     A.   Can't think of anybody that didn't make it.
Ladder 101 was there, but I hadn't seen any of them
prior to my arrival other than being in the fire house
</XMP></BODY></HTML>
3
included, you saw afterwards?
     A.   That's correct, sir.
     Q.   There is no way of telling where anybody was
that didn't make it at that point?
     A.   That's correct.
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Okay Ed.  Thank
     you.
          FIREFIGHTER EDWARD DAVIS:  Okay, Chief.
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES:  This concludes the
     interview at approximately 11:15.
E. DAVIS
before the start of our tours.
     Q.   Everyone you saw in that area, myself
File No. 9110221
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER ERIC BERNTSEN
   Interview Date:  December 4, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
E. BERNTSEN
2
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Today's date is
     December 4, 2001.  The time is 1300 hours.  My
     name is Battalion Chief Art Lakiotes of the Safety
     Command.  I am conducting an interview with --
          FIREFIGHTER BERNTSEN:  Eric Berntsen.
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES:  -- Firefighter
     Eric Berntsen regarding the events of September
     11, 2001.
     Q.   Eric, would you just mind telling me in your
own words, from the time you responded, exactly where
and what and how the day unfolded for you.
     A.   Okay.  We heard the explosions from the
kitchen.  We went up on the roof and got there just in
time to see the second plane hit the towers.  So we
figured we would be going on that.  So we ran
downstairs.  By the time we got down to the apparatus
floor, we got the ticket.  It was about five after
9:00.  I jumped on the rig.  I was an extra man.  The
dispatcher came over and announced to bring the extra
man.  I was supposed to be detailed to 205, but I
called to quarters and they said they were out, so I
jumped on the rig.
          We went down to the Trade Center.  On the way
there, we experienced a lot of traffic.  We went over
E. BERNTSEN
3
the Brooklyn Bridge, came down Church Street, made a
right onto Liberty, and parked near 10 and 10's
quarters, on the opposite side, on 10 and 10's side of
Liberty.  We grabbed the rollups and an extra bottle
and walked down Liberty towards West Street.  When we
got to the corner of West Street, we made a right and I
ran into the Marriott.  We stopped underneath the
pedestrian bridge where a lot of guys were using that
for shelter, so we didn't get hit by anything coming
down, bodies, et cetera.
          We ran into the Marriott and stayed by the
security desk there.  The officer went off, got orders
from a Chief, and we were told to go to the 74th floor
of the south tower.  He came back, told us what we were
doing.  We gathered the company together, started
heading north through the Marriott.  Then we made a
right and went down the ramp to get to the concourse
level.
          We headed eastbound in the concourse level to
where it first turns up to the left, where the mall
turns up to the left, up north, and we got to that
corner and the officer told us to wait there.  Instead
of carrying the stuff all around, he was going to try
to find a staircase or the best way we could get up.
E. BERNTSEN
4
He walked away.  He went west in the concourse and
talked to a security guy.  He was, I guess, about 100
feet away from us, maybe more.
          That's when we heard the building start
shaking.  I looked up into the Marriott, because you
could see up into it from where we were standing, and
just saw black, like dust.  I saw stuff falling off the
ceiling and I saw just black dust coming down.  I
turned and I ran a couple of steps west, a couple of
steps east, and then we turned up north, up into the
concourse, because I didn't see anything falling in
that area at that time.  So I felt that was the safest
direction to go.  I jumped into a corner.  The lights
went out.  I jumped into a corner under an archway.  I
thought maybe that might provide some better support.
I just held my helmet.  I figured we were going to get
like a pancake collapse on top of us.
          After the building stopped shaking and there
was no rumbling noise any more, Vinny Picciano of 212
regrouped the company by saying 212, regroup, get
back.  212, where are you?  We all got back together.
We all turned on our lights.  We talked to the
civilians, told them to keep quiet, to stay calm, don't
yell or scream, everybody stay calm, we are going to
E. BERNTSEN
5
get out of here.  We asked if anybody knew how to get
out.  Me and this guy who was with us, he said he knew
how, but he couldn't really see too much.  He looked
like he was blinded by the dust.  We just walked store
to store.  He was asking us what store do you see?  We
told him all the stores and we just headed north
through the concourse and came out in between the PATH
and the number 1 and number 9 line.  There is an exit
there that comes out into building 5.  It comes out on
the exterior of building 5, which leaves you off in the
middle of Vesey Street, between Church and West
Broadway.
          We got out, myself and Jimmy Murphy, who was
detailed to 212 from 220 Engine.  We chocked the doors
outside, went back in, told all the people this is an
exit.  We had about 50 civilians with us.  We told them
to exit out that way.  We made kind of like a chain
with lights, with flashlights, so they could see where
they were going to get them out.  Once everybody was
out, we went back in and we started searching.
          We tried to give a Mayday for our officer
because our officer wasn't with us.  We couldn't find
him.  We went back in and we searched the stores,
searched the PATH.  There were some more people still
E. BERNTSEN
6
in there.  I remember a guy from the GAP.  He was the
manager.  I asked if anybody was in there.  He said no,
he was the last guy to leave.  So we got him out.  We
found a guy, probably in his mid 40s, bald head, or
short crew cut hair, under the concrete.  We picked him
up, put him in a chair and carried him out.
          When we got out on to Vesey, there was a Port
Authority cop with us and he said that they were given
reports that the second building was going to come
down.  So we made a decision we'd better leave.  We
came out of the door on Vesey Street.  We were
exhausted from carrying this gentleman who was pretty
heavy, we estimated about 300 pounds, 275.  It took six
guys to carry him.  We were all exhausted.  We were
changing.  We didn't know if we could get him out of
there before this building was going to come down, so
we put him down for a second, took a breath, and made a
decision to just go for it and pick him up.  We made it
a couple of steps and then we heard the rumble and we
knew the second tower was coming down.  Everybody let
go of the guy and ran.  There was no talking, no
looking.  You just went.
     Q.   What direction?
     A.   There was a cop, NYPD, I'm pretty sure it was
E. BERNTSEN
7
an NYPD guy, and Vinnie Picciano were in front of me.
We were facing north.  We didn't even reach the
sidewalk.  We didn't even get off the sidewalk in front
of building 5.  I saw them run forward, north, heading
across the street.
     Q.   Up West Broadway?
     A.   Across Vesey Street from where building 5
is.  Directly straight across Vesey Street towards the
Federal Office Building, the Post Office.  Vinnie and
the cop jumped under a car.  Vinnie Picciano jumped up
on top of him.  There was no room for me there and I
thought I could make it a little bit further than
that.  So once I hit the sidewalk on the Federal
Building, on Vesey, I turned right, which had me east
on Vesey Street, and I started running.  Then I looked
up and I saw a dark cloud and I grabbed my helmet.
          The force knocked me down, blew me.  I don't
know how far I went, but I went forward pretty far.  It
knocked the wind out of me.  I got covered with debris
and just kept my hands on my helmet.  Something pretty
big hit me and knocked my helmet off.  I felt a blast
and just a lot of pressure when it hit me.  So I had no
helmet.  I put my hands back on top of my head and I
felt debris hit me.  I felt weight piling up on my back
E. BERNTSEN
8
and I figured I was going to be under what I thought
was about 10 feet of rubble.
          When it all stopped, I said what do I do
now?  I said, well, I can't breathe.  Let me get my
mask on.  I got my mask out.  I didn't realize my
bottle wasn't on.  So I couldn't reach it because I was
face down, and I kind of gave up.  Then I was still
laying there.  I said I can't just lay here.  I said
let me get out of here.  Let me see how deep I am, see
what I can do.  I remember saying I have no radio, this
fucking job, I can't get any kind of radio.
          When I pulled myself out from this debris
that was on my back and my legs, I was up against the
wall of the Federal Building, and then I realized it
was still pitch black.  I said I must be in a big void
because it was pitch black and I couldn't see
anywhere.
          Then, as it started lightening up a little
bit, I started using my light.  I was able to see over
the top of the debris around me.  I could see up the
wall a little bit.  I realized, holy shit, I'm free.
I'm not buried.  I got up.  I took a step and just
collapsed because I had no energy.  I got up again,
took two more steps and collapsed.  Then a cop picked
E. BERNTSEN
9
me up and helped me walk up to Church.  I made a left
on Church and there was a car on fire on the corner.
          Maybe 50 feet, 100 feet up Church, I saw
Vinnie Picciano, who was under the car with that cop.
He was stumbling around.  He had a bad gash on the back
of his head.  There was blood coming out from the back
of his turnout coat.  He was a little dizzy and
disoriented.  He asked me to look at his cut.  I told
him it's all right.  You will be okay.  I didn't really
think so, but what are you going to tell him at that
point?  I said you got a good cut, but you're going to
be all right.
          We walked up Church, made a right on to
Barclay and dropped our masks and continued up to
Broadway and got to I guess it was Park Place maybe and
Broadway.  We got into the back of an ambulance and got
Vinnie's head checked out.  Then we left the ambulance
because there were secondary collapses.  I was hearing
secondary collapses and I didn't know how far away we
were.  I didn't know how much of the building came
off.  I said I want to get out of here, as far away
from this place as possible.
          We headed north and got to Duane Street.  I
said, oh, the 7 and 1 is over here.  We made a left and
E. BERNTSEN
10
we walked into the quarters.  Three guys that were in
the company, Jimmy Murphy, Joe Galasso, Danny Walker,
they were all standing there.
     Q.   What company are they in?
     A.   212.  Same company.  Me and Vinnie thought
they were dead because we were the only two that walked
in.  We only saw each other on Church.  They must have
came out before us, after us, you know.  What happened
is they ran back into World Trade Center 5.  Me and
Vinnie and the cop ran forward.  So they were okay, but
they got beat up with the debris.  They got tossed
around, blown off their feet.  So we had everybody
except the officer and the chauffeur.  We didn't know
where the chauffeur was because we were on the complete
opposite side now.
          We saw a Chief.  We let the Chief know that
these guys were missing.  So we regrouped and from 7
and 1 we took an ambulance to Jamaica Hospital,
Queens.  That's most of my recollection.
     Q.   The Lieutenant and the chauffeur?
     A.   They were alive.  The chauffeur got blown
down I don't know what street.  Somewhere.
     Q.   He was with the rig?
     A.   Yes, he was with the rig.  The officer made
E. BERNTSEN
11
it out with some of the guys from 238.  I don't know
how they got out.  I don't know which direction they
went in.
     Q.   I'll try to get an interview with him.
     A.   Yes.  But he made it out and he was with
Lieutenant Glenn Wilkinson.  They were trying to come
back, to get back into the building, because he knew we
were in there, and they were trying to get a mask.  By
the time they got masks for each of them, they lost it
after the collapse.  They were tangled and stuff.  They
dropped it.  I don't know about looking for my officer.
     Q.   What was his name?
     A.   Neil Brosnan.
     Q.   Did you notice any other companies in the
lobby of the Marriott when you were in there?
     A.   No, I didn't.  The only person I saw that I
recognized was Chuck Margiotta and he was asking
everybody if they had an extra mask for a Chief.
     Q.   His unit is?
     A.   I don't know what unit he was working in that
day.  I believe he was assigned to 85 Truck, but I
don't know where he was working that day.
     Q.   You saw him in the lobby?
     A.   I saw him in the lobby.
E. BERNTSEN
12
     Q.   Do you remember how far down in the lobby off
of Liberty, off the staircase?  A hundred feet down?
     A.   About 100 feet down.  I saw him there, but
then he left.  I don't know how far he went, but I saw
him headed north.
     Q.   Towards tower 1?
     A.   Right.  Towards the north tower.  I saw him
headed that way.
     Q.   How many guys do you think were in the lobby
at that point when you got there; 20, 50, 100, crowded?
     A.   At least 50.  Probably over 10, maybe 15
companies, 12 companies, something like that.  There
were Chiefs.  I saw a couple of Chiefs who were just
kind of walking through.  I don't remember who they
were.
     Q.   What happened to the rig?  Did the rig
survive?
     A.   The rig survived.  It got beat up, the
windows blown out, a little fire damage, not that
much.
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Okay.  Very good.
     Excellent.  This concludes the interview.  It is
     now 1320.

FILE NO 9110222
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER VINCENT MASSA
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

11TH
MASSA
CHIEF KENAHAN TODAY IS DECEMBER 4TH 2001 THE TIME IS 444 THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF DENNIS KENAHAN OF THE SAFETY BATTALION OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH VINCENT MASSA FIREFIGHTER FIRST GRADE OF ENGINE 64
TELL ME WHAT HAPPENED ON SEPTEMBER
WAS WORKING THAT DAY IT WAS REGULAR CODE WORK FIRE HOUSE SAW ON THE NEWS THAT THE
HAD HIT AND ABOUT FIVE MINUTES AFTER THE SECOND PLANE HIT THEY SENT US TO STAGING AREA AT 35 ENGINE AND HOME WITH RIG HAD THE CONTROL POSITION HAD RADIO
WE GOT ON THE RIG GATHERED EVERYTHING
WE THOUGHT WE WOULD NEED FLASHLIGHTS AND EXTRA CLOTHES AND STUFF BECAUSE WE KNEW IT WOULD BE
CRAZY AND WED BE THERE AT LEAST DAY WE WENT DOWN BRUCKNER BOULEVARD TOWARDS 35 ENGINE WHICH
IS IN HARLEM YOU COULD SEE THE TOWERS BURNING WHILE DRIVING DOWN THE BRUCKNER
ON THE WAY DOWN THERE WE WERE LISTENING TO THE RADIO BELIEVE WE SWITCHED OVER TO THE MANHATTAN FREQUENCY AS WE WERE
PLANES

MASSA
GOING DOWN THE BRUCKNER YOU HEARD THE
TALKING TO THE UNITS THAT WERE AT THE SCENE YOU HEARD DIFFERENT THINGS GOING ON
THE DISPATCHER ANNOUNCED THAT ELEVATORS WERE DROPPING REMEMBER THEM SAYING AT FIRST
TO STAY OUT OF ONE OF THE ELEVATORS THAT SERVICED THE 44TH FLOOR THEN LESS THAN MINUTE LATER THEY SAID NOT TO USE ANY ELEVATORS THIS IS AS WERE DRIVING DOWN THE BRUCKNER THINGS WE WERE HEARING ON THE RADIO HE SAID TO STAY OUT OF ALL ELEVATORS BECAUSE THE ELEVATORS WERE DROPPING
WE KNEW THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING CRAZY GOING ON AS WE WERE APPROACHING CLOSER TO
HARLEM WE GOT OUT OF SIGHT OF THE BUILDINGS REMEMBER HEARING DIFFERENT THINGS REMEMBER
HEARING MAJOR COLLAPSE ON THE RADIO THATS
ONE THING THAT THREW ME ABOUT THE WHOLE THING WAS
THAT WHEN WE GOT TO THE SCENE WE DIDNT KNOW WHAT
HAD HAPPENED EXACTLY
TO JUMP AHEAD LITTLE BIT WHEN WE GOT
TO THE SCENE WE GOT THERE BETWEEN THE TWO COLLAPSES WE HAD NO IDEA THAT THE FIRST
IT SEEMED LIKE MANHATTAN
DISPATCHER
DISPATCHER UNLESS HE HAD US ON CITYWIDE

MASSA
BUILDING WAS ALREADY COMPLETELY DOWN ALL WE HEARD ON THE RADIO WAS MAJOR COLLAPSE AND WE
FIGURED THE TOP FELL OFF SO WE HEARD ELEVATORS
ARE DROPPING THEN WE HEARD MAJOR COLLAPSE THEN WE HEARD THE DISPATCHER CALLING OUT FOR ANYBODY
AND NOBODY WAS ANSWERING FEW MINUTES LATER WE HEARD CHAUFFEUR FROM ONE OF THE RIGS SCREAMING
SCREAMING THAT HE WAS TRAPPED AND SCREAMING AND THEN IT CUT OUT
WE GOT TO HARLEM AND WE JOINED UP ON THE TICKET WE WENT ON THE FIFTH ALARM ONE OF
THE FIFTH ALARMS DONT REMEMBER WHICH ONE WE WENT WITH FIVE OR SIX OTHER BRONX ENGINE
COMPANIES THAT WERE MEETING WITH 35 ENGINE IN HARLEM THERE WAS 35 US 64 83 ENGINE 68
ENGINE 94 ENGINE AND 50 ENGINE WE ALL MET UP WITH 35 ENGINE WE WERE THERE THEY WERE
GATHERING TOOLS UP WE WERE WAITING FOR THE OTHER ENGINE COMPANIES TO COME IN
ONCE EVERYBODY GOT IN WE STARTED ALIGNING LIKE ITS FUNNY THING BUT WE ENDED UP LEADING THE PACK IT WAS CONVOY FIGURED 35 WOULD END UP LEADING THE PACK BUT WE ENDED UP LEADING CIRCUMSTANCES BROUGHT US TO PUT OUR RIG

MASSA
IN THE FRONT AND WE ENDED UP LEADING
SO WE WERE WAITING IN HOUSE 35 YOU
COULD HEAR EVERYTHING THAT WAS GOING ON THEY WERE CALLING US THEY WERE TRYING TO GET LIKE
ROLL CALL OF US EXACTLY WHAT COMPANIES WERE THERE THEY SAID THEY WERE WAITING FOR OTHER
COMPANIES TO SHOWUP BEFORE SENDING US AND TELLING US WHERE TO REPORT TO DOWN AT THE SITE
ONCE EVERYBODY WAS THERE THEY GOT EVERYBODY ACCOUNTED FOR WE STARTED HEADING DOWN IT TURNS OUT WE BOUGHT OURSELVES SOME TIME WHICH PROBABLY SAVED OUR LIVES BECAUSE OUR CHAUFFEUR
WAS LEADING INSTEAD OF GOING RIGHT TO THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY BECAUSE HE COULD HAVE GONE RIGHT AROUND THE BLOCK TO THE WEST SIDE WE SHOT
STRAIGHT DOWN REMEMBER HIM TELLING US ON THE WAY THERE THAT THE WEST SIDE WAS WIDE OPEN HE HAD GONE DOWN THIRD AVENUE AND DOWN THROUGH CENTRAL PARK AND THROUGH CONSTRUCTION IT BOUGHT US LIKE TEN MINUTES
ONCE WE GOT DOWN THERE WE GOT DOWN TO THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY THERE WERE OTHER
COMPANIES BEHIND US SOME OF THE COMPANIES SPLIT OFF AND PULLED AHEAD OF US WE HAD COVERING

MASSA
OFFICER THAT DAY HE TOLD US TO PARK IN
CERTAIN SPOT AND IT WAS MAYBE ABOUT FOUR BLOCKS
NORTH ON WEST STREET WE WERE TO REPORT TO THE COMMAND POST ON WEST AND VESEY OR THE WEST STREET COMMAND POST
WE GOT ALL OUR STUFF GOT OUT OF THE RIG AND WERE GETTING READY UUR CHAUFFEUR DIDNT
HAVE MASK SO THE BOSS TOLD HIM TO STAY BEHIND TO STAY WITH THE RIG IN CASE HE NEEDED TO MOVE THE RIG TO USE IT FOR ANYTHING
AT THIS POINT LIKE SAID WE DIDNT KNOW THAT ONE TOWER HAD COME DOWN WE WERE ALL THERE TRYING TO SEE WHAT WAS THERE AND WE COULDNT TELL WE THOUGHT IT WAS THERE BUT WE COULDNT SEE IT BECAUSE OF THE SMOKE AND THE DUST AND EVERYTHING IT TURNED OUT IT WASNT THERE THE SECOND ONE WAS STILL STANDING THE NORTH TOWER
SO WE GOT OUR EQUIPMENT AND WE STARTED WALKING DOWN AND WE GOT TO SOMEWHERE BETWEEN
THREE QUARTERS TO HALF BLOCK AWAY WITHIN BLOCK WHEN THE NORTH TOWER CAME DOWN WE WERE WALKING DOWN WITH THE COMPANIES WE WERE WITH 94 ENGINE WAS THERE REMEMBER SEEING THE GUYS

MASSA
FROM 94 WITH US THEY ALL MADE IT OUT
SO AS WE WERE WALKING UP WE HAD OUR
ROLLUPS AND STUFF DONT KNOW WHAT WE PLANNED
ON DOING WITH THEM BUT WE FIGURED WE WERE GOING TO GO OPERATE SOMEHOW WE WERE SUPPOSED TO REPORT TO THE COMMAND POST
AS WE GOT LIKE HALF BLOCK AWAY YOU COULD HEAR GIGANTIC RUMBLE IT SOUNDED LIKE
JET FLYING OVERHEAD EVERYBODY
LOOKED UP AND YOU COULD SEE JUST BIG CLOUD OF
DUST COMING DOWN TO THE GROUND DIDNT SEE THE
ACTUAL TOP OF THE BUILDING COMING DOWN BUT YOU KNEW WHAT IT WAS
SO WE LOOKED UP AND THERE WAS PROBABLY ABOUT 30 STORY TIDAL WAVE OF CRAP COMING DOWN
WEST SIDE HIGHWAY AS SOON AS WE SAW IT
EVERYONE STOPPED LOOKED FOR SECOND AND IT
TOOK EVERYBODY COUPLE SECONDS FOR IT REGISTER WHAT WAS GOING ON AND THAT WE HAD TO GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE
WE WERE STANDING THERE WE WERE
FAIRLY CLOSE NOT AS CLOSE AS OTHER GUYS WE HAD OUR MASKS HAD RADIO WE HAD OUR MASKS
HAD TOOLS IN MY POCKET WHAT THOUGHT WE NEEDED
IMMEDIATELY

MASSA
TO HOOK UP WITH LIKE GLOVES MONKEY WRENCH AN ADAPTER THAT WAS GOING TO CARRY THE WHOLE THING
UP 80 FLIGHTS
WE WERE STANDING THERE AND SOMEBODY
YELLED RUN WE WERE ALL LOOKING AND WHATEVER GUYS WERE IN THE STREET IT WAS LIKE SEA OF GUYS FROM ALL THE COMPANIES THAT WERE DOWN THERE THERE WERE FEW CIVILIANS DOWN THERE WE JUST TURNED AROUND AND WERE JUST RUNNING DOWN WEST
SIDE HIGHWAY AS FAST AS WE COULD RUNNING
LOOKING OVER YOUR SHOULDER WE WERE WATCHING THIS CLOUD OF SHIT CHASING US DOWN THE STREET
HIT THE
BLOCK PROBABLY NOT REMEMBER GOT PAST
WALKED BLOCK AND
THAT INTERSECTION THAT WAS
IN BETWEEN THERE UNTIL
BEFORE IT HIT US TO SEE WHERE WAS AND WAS LIKE CLOSE TO ANOTHER INTERSECTION
WENT TO MY KNEES PUT MY MASK ON AND THE CLOUD OF SHIT HIT US LIKE LITTLE BITS OF
RUBBLE THERE WASNT ANYTHING BIG AT THAT POINT BECAUSE WE WERE FAR ENOUGH AWAY GUESS HAD
GROUND AFTER RUNNING MAYBE
EVEN MAYBE HALF BLOCK THE LAST INTERSECTION WE
RAN AND CROSSED THROUGH BLOCK AWAY THAT WAS
REMEMBER LOOKING

MASSA
STUFF HITTING MY HELMET DUNG DUNG DUNG IT
JUST GOT PITCH BLACK IT WENT FROM SUNNY DAY TO JUST TOTAL BLACKNESS
WAS WEARING MY MASK FIGURED GOING TO MAKE RIGHT AND GO BEHIND THE
WAS
BUILDINGS WASNT NEAR ANYTHING COUPLE GUYS JUMPED BEHIND CARS WASNT NEAR ANY CARS
OR ANYTHING FIGURED ID MAKE RIGHT IT WAS PITCH BLACK LITERALLY YOUR HAND COULD BE ON
YOUR FACE AND YOU WOULDNT SEE IT
SO STOPPED TOOK FEW STEPS MADE
DELIBERATE RIGHT TURN AND THEN STARTED WALKING STRAIGHT TO TRY AND GET BEHIND THE BUILDINGS
WEARING MY MASK GOT ABOUT TEN PACES AFTER MAKING THE TURN TO GO TO THE RIGHT AND ANOTHER
FIREMAN KIND OF LIKE JUMPED ON ME SCREAMING HE DROPPED HIS MASK THINK HE WAS FROM ENGINE
IM NOT SURE TRUCK OR ENGINE THINK IT WAS ENGINE HE HAD FORGOTTEN HIS MASK HE HAD DROPPED HIS MASK AND HE WAS FLIPPING OUT
SO GRABBED HIM WE WALKED COUPLE HAD MY HAND OUT IN FRONT TRYING TO
OF PACES
FIND SOMETHING JUST TO GET DOWN SOME KIND OF
PROTECTION OR SOMETHING BROUGHT HIM TO THE

MASSA 10
GROUND AND STARTED GIVING HIM MY MASK WE WERE SHARING MY MASK WE WERE SITTING ON THE GROUND AND LET HIM TAKE WHAT HE NEEDED ID
HOLD MY BREATH AND HE GAVE IT BACK AND WE WERE JUST GOING BACK AND FORTH
ID SAY AFTER ABOUT MAYBE GOOD FIVE MINUTES IT STARTED LIGHTENING UP AS IT STARTED
TO LIGHTEN UP HE GOT UP AND WAS LIKE THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU WHATS YOUR NAME WHATS YOUR NAME WHERE ARE YOU FROM BLAH
BLAH BLAH WAS LIKE YEAH YEAH YEAH
HAD TO GO
HAVE TO FIND THE REST OF MY GUYS
EVERYTHING WAS COVERED WITH GRAY EVERYBODY TWO THREE INCHES OF DUST AND CRAP ON
THE GROUND PAPERS EVERYWHERE DONT REMEMBER HEARING ANYTHING ON THE RADIO ALL THAT TIME NOTHING AT ALL REALLY GOING DOWN THERE IM TRYING TO REMEMBER IF REMEMBER HEARING ANYTHING WHILE WE WERE WALKING TOWARDS IT DONT REMEMBER NOTHING JUMPS OUT THAT REMEMBER HEARING ANYTHING COMING OVER THE RADIO
DID YOU SEE ANYTHING LIKE THE BUILDING ANYTHING THAT SIGN THAT IT MIGHT BE COMING DOWN OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT OR NO

MASSA 11
AS WE WERE WALKING DOWN
YEAH
NO SOME OF THE GUYS THAT WERE WALKING
WERE LOOKING UP AS IT WAS COMING DOWN MUST HAVE BEEN LOOKING STRAIGHT AHEAD OR DOWN
HEARD THE RUMBLE BY THE TIME LOOKED UP IT
WAS JUST BIG CLOUD OF SHIT YOU SAW CLOUD OF STUFF COMING DOWN AND ALMOST LIKE IT TURNED CORNER AND WAS COMING DOWN THE BLOCK
WE STOOD THERE LOOKING AT IT YOU LOOK AT IT TO JUDGE TO SEE AM TOO CLOSE AM
ALL RIGHT HERE IF YOU COULD SEE IT DIMINISHING THEN MAYBE YOULL BE ALL RIGHT NO PROBLEM ILL
BE ALL RIGHT BUT IT WAS JUST GETTING BIGGER AND BIGGER EVERYONE JUST LIKE AH AND RAN
THERE WAS LOT OF CHAOS ON THE RADIO AFTER THE DUST LIFTED AND IT STARTED GETTING
LIGHT OUT REMEMBER LISTENING OUT AND MADE SOME CALLS TO MY OFFICER BECAUSE REMEMBER WHICH DIRECTION THEY WENT IN BEFORE WE RAN AND SPLIT UP WE ALL RAN IN GENERAL DIRECTION WE ALL RAN NORTH
AFTER WHILE WAS MONITORING THE RADIO TO HEAR FROM HIM AND CALLED HIM ON THE

GEAR
SO WAS CONCERNED ABOUT IF WERE GOING TO
MASSA 12
RADIO HEARD OTHER THINGS PEOPLE CALLING
OTHER PEOPLE DONT REMEMBER EXACTLY NOTHING STANDS OUT WE HOOKED UP TOGETHER HE TOLD ME
WHERE HE WAS AFTER GOT HIM ON THE RADIO HE WAS UNDERNEATH THE OVERPASS AT CHAMBERS THERES THAT OVERPASS ON WEST STREET SO WE MET UP OVER
THERE
ONCE WE ALL GOT TOGETHER WE STARTED WALKING BACK IN BECAUSE WE ALL WANTED TO TRY TO
GET IN AND DO SOMETHING AND GET TO COMMAND POST AND SEE WE HAD NO IDEA WHAT HAD HAPPENED WE FIGURED THERE WAS STILL COMMAND POST WE FIGURED WE WOULD GO TO THE COMMAND POST
AS WE WERE HEADING DOWN EVERYBODY DROPPED THEIR SHIT WE DROPPED ALL OUR ROLLUPS
DROPPED MY GLOVES MY WRENCH EVERYTHING
HAD NOTHING BUT MY MASK MY HELMET AND MY BUNKER
GO IN AND WERE GOING TO DO SOMETHING IVE GOT
TO GET PAIR OF GLOVES ON
WAS SCROUNGING AROUND THERE WERE
TOOLS AND STUFF ALL OVER THE WEST SIDE
IT WAS COMPLETELY COVERED WITH TOOLS AND GEAR AND SHIT JUST EVERYWHERE SCROUNGED UP PAIR OF
HIGHWAY

MASSA 13
GLOVES AS WE WERE GOING IN WE PASSED SOME
RIGS WE GRABBED SOME STUFF GRABBED HALOGEN FOUND THE SEARCH ROPE
WE WERE JUST GRABBING EVERYTHING WE COULD GET OUR HANDS ON AS WE WERE HEADING BACK IN BECAUSE WE FIGURED WE WERE GOING TO BE DOING
SOMETHING
WITH ALL THE WORK
AS WE STARTED WALKING DOWN WE FIGURED WE WOULD TRY TO FIND THE COMMAND POST
REMEMBER WE WERE WALKING DOWN AND WE GOT TO ALMOST WHERE WE WERE WHEN IT CAME DOWN LIKE
WITHIN HALF BLOCK AWAY OR SO AND THINK
STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL IS ON AS YOURE WALKING SOUTH ON WEST IS ON THE RIGHT SIDE BY THE WATER
THERE
THERE WERE REPORTS COMING OVER THE RADIO THAT THERE WAS SECONDARY DEVICE IN
STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL THAT THERE WAS MAJOR GAS LEAK AND TO EVACUATE THE AREA EVERYBODY TURNED AROUND AND STARTED HEADING NORTH AGAIN
WE WERE LIKE JESUS CHRIST WHAT THE HELL IS NEXT EVERYBODY WAS SHELL SHOCKED WE FIGURED THIS BUILDING IS GOING TO EXPLODE NOW YOU KNOW
SO WE STARTED WALKING NORTH AGAIN AND

MASSA 14
WE WERE STILL CONCERNED ABOUT FINDING COMMAND
WE STOOD THERE FOR MINUTE OR TWO AND WE WERE LIKE DONT KNOW THIS IS BULLSHIT AND
LETS START HEADING BACK IN
WE STARTED HEADING BACK IN WE CHANGED
OUR BOTTLES ON THE WEST SIDE ANOTHER REASON WE CHANGED OUR BOTTLES WE WERE TRYING TO FIND COMMAND POST AND THERE WAS NONE REMEMBER THE OFFICERS ALL CALLING TRYING TO FIND OUT WHERE TO MEET UP BUT THERE WAS NO COMMAND POST SO THERE WAS KIND OF CHAOS NOBODY KNEW WHERE TO GO
AS WE WERE WAITING ON THE WEST SIDE FOR
TO DO REMEMBER TWO FIRE MARSHALS CAME UP THE BLOCK THEY MUST HAVE BEEN CLOSE
THEY WERE TOTALLY COVERED WITH CRAP THEIR PANTS
WERE RIPPED WE HAD BOX OF FLASHLIGHTS WE SAT THERE WITH THEM AND PUT BATTERIES IN COUPLE
CASES OF FLASHLIGHTS FOR THEM
IM TRYING TO THINK IF THERES ANYTHING
ELSE WORTH NOTING CANT REMEMBER WE HELPED THEM WE HUNG OUT THEN THEY CAME UP WITH THE COMMAND POST AT WEST AND CHAMBERS NEAR THE UNDERPASS SO WE STARTED HEADING BACK THERE
WHEN WE GOT BACK THERE WE HOOKED UP
POST
SOMETHING

IT WAS MESS THIS IS RIDICULOUS ITS
REMEMBER THINKING TAKING US FOREVER JUST
TO STRETCH LINE BECAUSE
CHAOS THERES LINES ALL
KNEW WHERE THIS LINE RAN THIS AND THAT
MASSA 15
WITH THEY GAVE US AN ASSIGNMENT TO STRETCH
LINE FROM THE WATER THERE WAS MARINE BOAT ON
THE WATER AT VESEY STREET THEY WANTED THE LINE STRETCHED THINK TWO OR THREE COMPANIES
THEY WERE LOOKING FOR ENGINE CHAUFFEURS IM AN
ENGINE CHAUFFEUR THEY WERE LOOKING FOR ENGINE COMPANIES TO HELP STRETCH LINES TO MANIFOLD THEM
TO SATELLITE OFF THE BOAT CLOSE TO THE DEBRIS AT THE INTERSECTION OF WEST AND VESEY
WE RODE WITH THEM WE TOOK RIG WE DROVE DOWN TO THE WATER AND VESEY THERE WAS
ALREADY RIG BACKED IN THAT DEAD END STREET TO
THE WATER SOMETHING MAYBE 320 SOMETHING DONT REMEMBER WE HAD SPARE RIG THAT WAS
LIKE IT WAS SPARE RIG OR RESERVE RIG WE STRETCHED THREE AND HALF FROM THERE UP VESEY TO
WEST AND WE FED 33 ENGINE THINK WE SUPPLIED IT TO THEM FROM THEM THEY FED IT MANIFOLD AND THEY FED THINK SATELLITE
EVERYTHING WAS JUST
OVER THE PLACE NOBODY

MASSA 16
EVERYTHING WAS ALL OVER THE PLACE
THERE WERE COUPLE OFFICERS THAT DID
GOOD JOB KEEPING EVERYBODY TOGETHER AND SAYING
HEY JUST DO THIS GET THIS DONE EVERYBODY HAD THEIR OWN IDEAS OF WHAT THEY SHOULD DO AND
EVERYBODY WAS DOING WHAT THEY THOUGHT THEY SHOULD DO AND IT WAS ALL DIFFERENT THINGS IT WAS HARD
TO ACCOMPLISH SIMPLE TASKS
ONCE WE DID THAT THERE WAS LONG
WAIT WE WENT IN WE GOT THAT HOOKED UP WE HELPED THEM WE WERE GOING TO STRETCH SOME HAND LINES IN BUT THEY SAID TO HANG THAT THEY KEPT
BACKING EVERYBODY UP AND THEN BRINGING THEM IN NOW AT THIS POINT EVERYBODY WAS GATHERED ON VESEY BY WEST AND WANTING TO GO TO WORK EVERYBODY WAS HANGING OUT THIS MUST HAVE BEEN PROBABLY ALMOST AN HOUR AFTER THE SECOND TOWER CAME DOWN
WE WERE OVER THERE WE TRIED TO DO WHAT WE COULD OUR OFFICERS TRIED TO GET US TO WORK WE HUNG AROUND FOR WHILE THINK THEY WERE MORE LETTING RESCUE DO IT AND THEY WERE LETTING WHOEVER HAD THEIR RIGS WHO WAS ON THE ENDS OF ANY PLACE SUPPLYING ANY KIND OF WATER THEY WERE MORE INTERESTED IN TRYING TO SUPPLY

MASSA 17
WATER AND THERE WERE SOME GUYS SEARCHING
BUT THEY WERENT LETTING GUYS TOO CLOSE AT THIS POINT SEVEN WORLD TRADE CENTER
WAS GOING HEAVY AND THEY WERENT LETTING ANYBODY GET TOO CLOSE EVERYBODY WAS EXPECTING THAT TO COME DOWN
WE HUNG OUT FOR HOURS WE WENT INTO THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING WE LOOKED AROUND THERE WE SEARCHED AROUND FOR WHILE BUT YOU COULD SEE GUYS WERE ALREADY IN THERE WE PRETTY MUCH DID THAT ON OUR OWN BECAUSE WE WERE RIGHT THERE AND THE DOOR WAS THERE AND WE JUST WALKED IN
REMEMBER LATER ON IN THE DAY IT WAS GETTING CLOSE THAT THEY WERE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT SEVEN COMING DOWN WE HAD NO IDEA WHAT WAS GOING ON ON THE EAST SIDE WE WERE ALL ON OUR SIDE
ON THE WEST SIDE IT WAS PRETTY CLEAR THE WIND WAS BLOWING FROM WEST TO EAST BELIEVE
REMEMBER LATER ON IN THE DAY AS WE
WERE WAITING FOR SEVEN TO COME DOWN THEY KEPT BACKING US UP VESEY ALMOST LIKE FULL BLOCK
THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT SEVEN COMING DOWN AND THEY KEPT CHANGING US ESTABLISHING COLLAPSE

MASSA 18
ZONE AND BACKING US UP
AT ONE POINT REMEMBER THE CHIEFS
GATHERED ALL THE OFFICERS IN THE STREET THEY
PUT ALL THE ENGINES ON ONE SIDE OF THE STREET AND
THE TRUCK GUYS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET AND THEY GATHERED ALL THE OFFICERS IN THE CENTER OF THE STREET TO TRY TO COME UP WITH SOME KIND OF
PLAN TRY AND GET SOME SEMBLANCE OF ORGANIZATION THEY WANTED EVERYBODYS RIDING LISTS THEY
WANTED EVERYBODY TO BE ACCOUNTED FOR TO MAKE SURE THAT NOBODY WAS MISSING JUST TRYING TO GET THEIR BEARINGS
REMEMBER BEING CONCERNED ABOUT 47 TRUCK THAT WENT WITH US THEY WERE RELOCATED
DOWN TO TRUCK BEFORE WE WENT DOWN SO THEY
WERE DOWN THERE LOT EARLIER MAYBE THEIR WILL TELL YOU THEIR STORY
REMEMBER TRYING TO LISTEN TO THE
RADIO HEARING FOR ANYTHING ON 47 TRUCK
REMEMBER HEARING THE OFFICERS SAY SOMETHING ONCE AND REMEMBER HEARING 47 WAS ON CALL ON 47S ROOF BUT THE ROOF NOT ANSWERING WE WERE CONCERNED THAT SOME OF THEM MIGHT BE MISSING
WE HAD NO IDEA WHAT THEY WERE GOING
GUYS

MASSA 19
THROUGH ON THE OTHER SIDE OR WHEREVER THEY WERE BUT WE KNEW THEY WERE THERE BECAUSE WE HEARD ON
THE RADIO WE WERE SURE THAT THEY WERE THERE BECAUSE THEY WENT BACK TO TRUCK EARLY
AFTER THEY GOT US IN THE STREET REMEMBER CHIEF SALKA FROM THE 180 WAS ONE OF THE
GUYS THAT TOOK CHARGE HE KIND OF KEPT EVERYBODY IN LINE HIM AND THINK VISCONTI HAD PLAN OF
ATTACK
THE WHOLE TIME WHILE WE WERE WAITING THERE WERE HOURS THAT WENT BY SEVEN CAME DOWN AFTER IN THE AFTERNOON REMEMBER LISTENING
TO THE RESCUES THAT WERE GOING ON THEY GOT TRUCK OUT OF THE STAIRWELL REMEMBER HEARING ALL THAT WHAT WAS GOING ON THREE OR FOUR DIFFERENT ROPE RESCUES GOING AT THE SAME TIME DIFFERENT CHIEFS TALKING TO DIFFERENT
THAT WERE GOING IN TO TRY AND GET TRUCK OUT
OTHER THAN THAT WE WERE SURPRISED THAT THERE WASNT LOT MORE GOING ON ON THE RADIO
IT WAS ACTUALLY CONSIDERING WHAT WAS GOING ON IT WAS PRETTY QUIET PLUS IT WAS LIKE IT MUST
HAVE BEEN HOURS LATER WHEN WE REALIZED BOTH THE TOWERS WERE COMPLETELY GONE IT WAS JUST LIKE
CREWS GUYS

KNOW WE WERE WAITING YOU HAD THE ENGINES ON ONE SIDE
THE OTHER THE OFFICERS WERE IN
IN THE STREET
THE TRUCKS ON THE MIDDLE
IT WAS ABOUT IN
AT THAT POINT GUESS
THE AFTERNOON OR SO THATS WHEN SEVEN CAME
MASSA 20
HOLY SHIT
REMEMBER SOMEWHERE DURING
THE HOURS OF WAITING THERE WAS PROBY FROM 18
TRUCK THAT HOOKED UP WITH US BECAUSE HE KNEW ONE OF THE PROBIES THAT WAS WITH US HE DIDNT KNOW WHETHER HE COULD FIND HIS COMPANY SO OUR OFFICER
TOLD HIM JUST STAY WITH US SO WE LATCHED ONTO ANOTHER GUY WE HAD EXTRA GUYS WITH US DONT REMEMBER HIS NAME
DOWN SEVEN WORLD TRADE CENTER CAME DOWN AND THAT WAS LIKE TWO BLOCKS AWAY AS SOON AS IT CAME DOWN EVERYBODY GOT UP AND TORE ASS WEST DOWN VESEY STREET
EVERYBODY WAS TRYING TO GET INTO THIS BUILDING REMEMBER THERE WERE 150 GUYS TRYING
TO GET THROUGH TWO REVOLVING DOORS WITH FULL GEAR IT WAS LIKE SOUND EVERYONE IS SCREAMING GUYS WERE TRYING TO SMASH THE GLASS WITH THEIR HALOGENS TO GET THROUGH AND ENDED UP

MASSA 21
FREAKING OUT THE STUFF GAVE WAY AND WE ALL GOT OUT YOU CAN LAUGH IT OFF LIKE JESUS CHRIST EVERYBODY WAS SHELL SHOCKED
THATS WHEN SALKA CAME UP AND HE SAID
ALL RIGHT NOW THAT SEVEN WAS DOWN YOU CAN START GETTING CLOSER AND DOWN THINGS THERE WAS NO COLLAPSE THREAT ANYMORE SALKA WANTED THREE ENGINES AND THREE TRUCKS BECAUSE HE WANTED TO GO INTO THE VERIZON BUILDING WHICH IS ON THE CORNER OF WEST AND VESEY
HE WANTED TO SEARCH THE VERIZON BUILDING TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE WAS NO FIRE IN
THERE HE WASNT AS CONCERNED ABOUT PEOPLE
BECAUSE HE FIGURED EVERYBODY WAS OUT BY NOW BECAUSE IT WAS HOURS LATER THERE WASNT MUCH
FIRE IN THERE BUT THERE WAS SOME WE DIDNT WANT TO LOSE THAT BUILDING TOO WERE NOT GOING
TO STAY AWAY FROM IT AND LET IT BURN BECAUSE THERE WASNT MUCH FIRE
EVERYBODY IS JUMPING UP YOU HAD 300 GUYS THAT WANTED TO GO TO WORK AND HES LOOKING FOR THREE ENGINES AND THREE TRUCKS TO GO TO WORK OUR BOSS GOT IN THERE HE WANTED COMPANIES THAT ALL HAD MASKS COMPANIES THAT HAD RADIOS BECAUSE

MASSA 22
LOT OF GUYS HAD RADIOS BECAUSE THEY CAME DOWN ALONE
IT TURNED OUT BECAUSE WE SCAVENGED WE HAD OUR MASKS AND WE HAD RADIOS THAT WERE WORKING WE STILL SCAVENGED IN THOSE HOURS FOR FRESH BATTERIES FOR THE RADIOS HAD THAT SEARCH ROPE HE NEEDED SEARCH ROPE GAVE SALKA THE SEARCH ROPE HE HAD GOTTEN ONE
SO HE ENDED UP PICKING US TO GO IM TRYING TO REMEMBER THE TRUCK COMPANY WE WENT
WITH WE WENT IN WITH THREE CHIEFS WE PAIRED UP INTO TEAMS EACH ONE WITH CHIEF CANT
REMEMBER THE TRUCK COMPANY WE WENT WITH WANT TO SAY 13 TRUCK BUT DONT THINK SO
THATS OKAY
SO WE WENT IN WHAT HE WANTED TO DO IS
WE SPLIT UP INTO THREE TEAMS AND EACH TEAM SEARCHED TEN FLOORS WE BROUGHT FLOOR ROPES WITH
US IN CASE WE FOUND FIRE THERE WAS RIG RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING WE EACH GRABBED
LENGTH OF HOSE AND WHAT WE DO TO HOOK UP AND WE WENT IN
WE HAD TO FORCE THE DOOR TO THE STAIRWELL WE WALKED UP DONT REMEMBER THE

MASSA 23
CHIEFS NAME WE WENT WITH WE WENT UP TO THE TENTH FLOOR AND WE SEARCHED FROM 10 TO 20
LOOKING FOR FIRE WE WERE LOOKING FOR PEOPLE TOO BUT WE WERE MORE CONCERNED WITH FIRE WE
HAD FIRE AND THERE WAS DAMAGE HOLES IN THE WALLS BIG HOLES IN THE WALLS ACTUALLY WE WERE WITH 54 TRUCK 54 TRUCK WAS THERE
THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH IT THEN WE CAME DOWNSTAIRS BY THE TIME WE CAME OUT IT WAS DARK WE WERE SHOT WE WERE HEADING OUT MORE PEOPLE WERE SHOWING UP THERE WERE HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF GUYS THERE
WE CAME OVER TO TRY AND GET ANOTHER ASSIGNMENT AT THE COMMAND POST WE SAW 47 TRUCK THERE AND WE PICKED UP THINGS THAT WE WERE MISSING WE WENT TO THE COMMAND POST WE SAW CHIEF DIDOMENICO TO TRY AND GET ANOTHER ASSIGNMENT HE TOOK ONE LOOK AT US AND SAID
YOU GUYS BEEN HERE SINCE THIS MORNING WE
SAID YEAH HE SAID YOU BETTER GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE IT WAS LIKE 1030 AT NIGHT AT THIS POINT HE TOLD US TO GET OUT OF THERE
SO WE TOOK OUR STUFF AND WALKED BACK DOWN TO THE RIG WE WERE TRYING TO FIND OUR

MASSA 24
CHAUFFEUR ACTUALLY REMEMBER AS WE WERE WALKING PAST 47 TRUCKS RIG THERE WAS CIVILIAN
GOING THROUGH IT HE WAS WEARING ONE OF OUR GUYS COATS AND ONE OF OUR GUYS HELMETS RECOGNIZED THE HELMET WE GRABBED THE GUY WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING HE SAID HE WAS RETIRED HE WASNT RETIRED WE GRABBED THE STUFF AND TOLD HIM TO GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE
WE WENT BACK OVER AND PICKED UP OUR CHAUFFEUR AND CAME BACK BACK TO QUARTERS WE GOT BACK TO QUARTERS SOMETIME SHORTLY AFTER 11
THATS IT
THATS PRETTY GOOD ALL RIGHT CHIEF KENAHAN ITS NOW 510
THIS CONCLUDES THIS INTERVIEW
PM

FILE NO 9110223
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW LIEUTENANT WARREN SMITH
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY NANCY FRANCIS

SMITH
CHIEF MALKIN TODAYS DATE IS DECEMBER 4TH 2001 THE TIME IS NOW 1523 HOURS THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN OF THE SAFETY BATTALION AM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
LIEUTENANT
LIEUTENANT SMITH WARREN SMITH
CHIEF MALKIN WARREN SMITH OF LADDER CO
REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001 ALSO
IN THIS ROOM IS FIREMAN MICHAEL BOSCO OF THE SAFETY BATTALION
IF YOULL SPEAK IN CLEAR VOICE AND REGULAR TONE SINCE WELL RECORD EVERYTHING AND JUST TELL ME
WHAT YOU REMEMBER
BASICALLY WE RECEIVED THE ALARM TO RESPOND
LITTLE BEFORE 900 RIGHT AROUND 900 ACTUALLY AND JUST BEFORE THAT WE ACTUALLY HEARD THE FIRST PLANE
HIT WE HEARD IT GO OVER OF COURSE AND THEN HIT THE
BUILDING ONE OF THE GUYS RAN OUT GUYS WERE YELLING WHAT WAS THAT SONIC BOOM GUYS WENT DOWN TO
LAFAYETTE COUPLE OF GUYS RAN OUT IF YOU LOOK DOWN LAFAYETTE YOU CAN SEE THE WORLD TRADE CENTER YOU
COULD SEE WHAT HAPPENED THEY CAME BACK SHORTLY AFTER THAT 33 RESPONDED SHORTLY AFTER THAT WE
RESPONDED
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WHILE WE WERE ON OUR WAY DOWN BROADWAY JUST
ABOUT NEAR THE WORLD TRADE CENTER THERE
THAT THE OTHER BUILDING WAS HIT WHILE WE
RESPONDING AND CONFLICTING REPORTS YOU
TELL THE ANGLE WE WERE COMING WE WERE
SOUTH THE PLANES HIT ON THE SOUTHWEST CORNER
BELIEVE WE WERE ON BASICALLY THE OPPOSITE CORNER THEN JUST BEFORE WE GOT OFF THE RIG HEARD THEM TRANSMIT FIFTH ALARM SECOND FIFTH ALARM FOR THE OTHER BUILDING HEARD HAZMAT ON THE RADIO SAY THE BUILDING WAS HIT SO AT THAT POINT WE DID KNOW IT WAS HIT WE STILL DIDNT REALIZE WHETHER OR NOT
YOU COULDNT BELIEVE THE FIRST ONE AND WHEN THE SECOND ONE
HIT YOU OBVIOUSLY COULDNT BELIEVE IT EVEN MORE BUT YOU DIDNT REALLY THINK THAT IT WAS AN ATTACK AT THAT
POINT IT WAS JUST THIS IS CRAZY
SO PARKED THE RIG NOT DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING BECAUSE SAW ALL THE DEBRIS IN THE
STREET TOLD MY CHAUFFEUR SAID LISTEN LOT OF STUFF FALLING DOWN AT THAT POINT
THERES
DIDNT KNOW HOW MUCH OF THAT BUILDING WAS GOING TO COME DOWN
OBVIOUSLY NOT THE WHOLE THING BUT WE PARKED BELIEVE AT THE CEMETERY AND THE CHURCH THERE WE PARKED OVER IN THAT AREA AS IT TURNED OUT LATER IT DID SAVE THE
WERE REPORTS WERE
COULDNT HEADING

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RIG FROM BEING CRUSHED WE LOST THE RIG BECAUSE IT BURNT UP SOME DEBRIS CAME DOWN AND FLEW OVER THERE
AND LANDED ON IT AND LIT IT ON FIRE BUT IT DIDNT CRUSHED
ANYWAY WE HAD TO WALK COUPLE OF BLOCKS TO THE ENTRANCE ON WEST STREET WE WALKED IN THERE WENT INTO THE LOBBY SAW THE LOBBY COMMAND POST REPORTED TO THE CHIEF CHIEF HAYDEN WAS THERE THE COMMISSIONER WAS THERE RECOGNIZED FEW OTHER FACES BUT BASICALLY ALL THE CHIEFS WERE THERE AT THAT POINT
WE STOOD FAST FOR TIME IS DIFFICULT TO
COMPREHEND AT THIS POINT AFTER THE FACT IT WAS HARD
TO PUT EVERYTHING TOGETHER HOW LONG EVERYTHING TOOK
BUT GENERALLY IT WAS PROBABLY ABOUT 30 SECONDS MAYBE THAT WE STOOD FAST BEFORE WE GOT AN ORDER TO GO UP THE
STAIRWAY BELIEVE IT WAS STAIRWAY NO SPECIFIC ORDERS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT JUST GO UP SEE WHAT YOU CAN DO BASICALLY THINK EVERYBODY WAS PRETTY MUCH OVERWHELMED AT THAT POINT BECAUSE JUST SHORTLY BEFORE THAT THE OTHER PLANE HAD HIT SO YOU COULD SEE THE CONFUSION AND EVERYTHING ELSE AT THE LOBBY COMMAND POST
SO WE WENT UP TALKED TO MY GUYS WHILE WE WERE STANDING FAST ON THE WAY IN TOLD THEM TO LOOK
GET

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YOU COULD SEE THE BODIES WERE FALLING AROUND US
UP
SAID MAKE SURE DONT GET HIT BY FLYING BODY WHEN
YOU LOOK UP YOU KNOW DONT GET HIT AND NONE OF US DID YOU COULD HEAR THEM LANDING
WE GOT INTO THE LOBBY STOOD FAST FOR SHORT TIME PAIRED THE GUYS UP SAID LISTEN TRY TO STAY TOGETHER IT MAY NOT BE POSSIBLE BUT PAIRED EVERYBODY UP TRIED TO PUT SENIORITY WITH LESS SENIORITY AND EVERYTHING ELSE
WORKING OUR WAY UP WAS SLOW GOING BECAUSE WE HAD CIVILIANS COMING DOWN WE WERE TELLING THEM TO
STAY TO THEIR RIGHT TRYING TO CALM THEM DOWN LET THEM KNOW THEY WERE OUT OF HARMS WAY BASICALLY AND IM SURE ALL THOSE PEOPLE GOT OUT UNLESS THEY STOOD TOO NEAR TO EITHER ONE OF THE BUILDINGS FOR THE MOST PART
THINK ALL THE CIVILIANS GOT OUT LOT OF CIVILIANS GOT OUT OF THE NORTH TOWER WORKING OUR WAY UP WAS SLOW AGAIN BECAUSE THERE WERE CIVILIANS LOT OF FIREFIGHTERS GOING UP CATCHING UP TO ENGINE COMPANIES WITH ROLL UPS THEYRE NOT MOVING AS QUICKLY 33 ACTUALLY RESPONDED COUPLE OF MINUTES BEFORE WE DID AND WE ENDED UP CATCHING UP TO THEM WE GOT UP TO GUESS ABOUT THE 31ST FLOOR
ALSO RECEIVED REPORTS WHILE WAS WALKING

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UP FROM AN FBI AGENT THAT THERE WERE MORE PLANES UP IN THE AIR UNACCOUNTED FOR SO PASSED THIS ON TO MY
GUYS THAT WERE NEAR ME RADIOS WERE VERY DIFFICULT TO USE BUT PASSED IT ON TO EVERYBODY AND HAD TO PASS
IT VERBALLY ACTUALLY THAT THERE WERE MORE PLANES UP IN THE AIR UNACCOUNTED FOR STAY AWAY FROM THE
WINDOWS
AT THAT POINT WE KNEW HE TOLD US YEAH THEYRE ATTACKING US THATS WHEN WE REALLY FOUND OUT THAT WE WERE BEING ATTACKED AND THIS WAS PROBABLY SOMEWHERE IN THE VICINITY OF THE 15TH THROUGH 20TH
FLOOR WHATEVER
WE GOT UP TO ABOUT THE 31ST FLOOR BELIEVE
IT WAS THE 31ST FLOOR AND MET UP WITH ENGINE 33 THEY
WERE HEARING REPORTS ON THE RADIO JET FUEL ON THE UPPER FLOORS ODOR WAS TRYING TO GET AHOLD OF SOME
OF MY GUYS ON THE RADIO FINALLY GOT AHOLD OF COUPLE OF GUYS THAT WERE ON THE 25TH OR 26TH FLOOR
HEAVYSET GUYS WHO WERENT MAKING IT UP AS FAST AS WE WERE THERE WAS ME AND COUPLE OF YOUNGER GUYS
THINNER GUYS SO SAID ALL RIGHT LETS REGROUP
HERE LETS GET EVERYBODY TOGETHER
WHILE WE WERE THERE SAW CHIEF DOWN AT
THE END OF THE HALL WAS MAKING MY WAY DOWN TO TALK

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TO HIM TO FIND OUT WHAT WE WERE GOING TO DO THERE WERE LOT OF GUYS ON THE 31ST FLOOR TRYING TO FIGURE
OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON GUYS WERE RESTING WE WERE HEARING LOT OF REPORTS ON THE RADIO FROM GUYS NEEDING
OXYGEN FIREFIGHTER DOWN JUST GUYS TRYING TO GO UP TOO QUICKLY SO AS WAS MAKING MY WAY TO THAT CHIEF TO
FIND OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON THE OTHER BUILDING WENT DOWN WE DID NOT KNOW WHAT IT WAS BECAUSE HAD
RECEIVED REPORTS FROM THE FBI GUY THAT THERE WERE OTHER
PLANES THOUGHT IT WAS ANOTHER PLANE HITTING OUR BUILDING BECAUSE IT JUST SHOOK LIKE WE WERE IN AN
EARTHQUAKE
WE WERE NEAR STAIRWELL THE GUYS THAT WERE
NEAR THE STAIRWELL WENT UP THE STAIRWELL THE BUILDING STOPPED SHAKING THE LIGHTS WENT OUT THE CHIEF WAS
NEAR ME ASKED HIM WHATS GOING ON HE DIDNT HAVE AN ANSWER JUST THEN BUT SHORTLY THEREAFTER WE GOT
THE ORDER TO EVACUATE THAT WAS ON THE COMMAND CHANNEL WHICH BELIEVE WAS HEARD THEM SWITCH TO CHANNEL
WE PASSED THAT ORDER ON TO EVERYBODY THAT WAS WITH US ON THAT FLOOR KNOW LADDER WAS WITH US
ENGINE SOME OF THEIR GUYS WERE IN THE VICINITY
ENGINE
33 DONT KNOW WHO THE CHIEF WAS LIKE

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TOLD GUYS AFTERWARDS IF YOU KNEW THE GUY WHO YOU SAW IN THAT BUILDING THAT DAY IF YOU KNEW HIM YOU DIDNT
WORK WITH HIM YOU JUST KNEW WHO HE WAS PERSONALLY YOU REMEMBERED HIM BUT IF YOU DIDNT WITH ALL THE SHIT GOING ON YOU JUST COULDNT PUT THE FACE AND THEN LATER ON SEE THE NAME THEY JUST DIDNT GO TOGETHER THERE WAS JUST TOO MUCH SHIT GOING ON AT ONCE
SO WE STARTED MAKING OUR WAY OUT THE EVACUATION WAS ORDERLY THERE WAS NO PANIC WE DIDNT
GET REPORT THAT THE OTHER BUILDING WENT DOWN JUST TO GET OUT IVE WORKED IN MANHATTAN MY WHOLE CAREER IN
HIGH RISES AND EVERYTHING ELSE WORKED IN MIDTOWN WHEN YOU GET THE ORDER TO EVACUATE HIGH RISE
BUILDING YOU KNOW SOMETHINGS FUCKED UP BEYOND WHAT WE CAN HANDLE USUALLY WE JUST REGROUP ON LOWER FLOOR SOMETIMES JUST FLOOR BELOW SO MY SENSE OF URGENCY WAS PRETTY GOOD TO GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE BUT
THERE WAS NO PANIC GUYS WERE CALMLY GETTING OUT
IN RETROSPECT WOULD THERE HAVE BEEN PANIC IF
THEY WOULD HAVE TOLD US THE OTHER BUILDING COLLAPSED ITS HARD TO SAY REALLY PERSONALLY DONT THINK SO WOULD HAVE LIKED THAT INFORMATION BECAUSE DONT
KNOW MEAN MADE LOT OF DECISIONS THAT DAY AND FIVE OUT OF EIGHT OF US GOT OUT BUT IF HAD THAT

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INFORMATION WOULD HAVE GOTTEN ALL EIGHT OF US OUT
AGAIN ITS REALLY HARD TO SAY IM JUST GLAD FIVE OF US GOT OUT OF THERE
IT WAS SLOW GOING ON THE WAY DOWN LOT OF FIREMEN WE WERE PICKING UP ON THE WAY DOWN DIDNT KNOW THAT THE ORDER TO EVACUATE WAS GIVEN BECAUSE THINK
IF YOU WERENT NEAR CHIEF FROM GUYS TALKED TO YOU DIDNT GET THAT ORDER AT LEAST NOT AS QUICKLY
THINK IT CAME OVER LATER DIDNT HEAR IT
BUT THE ORDER TO EVACUATE WAS GIVEN ON CHANNEL AND CHANNEL JUST MAY HAVE BEEN SO BOGGED DOWN THAT IT MAY HAVE BEEN IMPOSSIBLE TO GET THAT ORDER THROUGH IM SURE THEY TRIED IT WAS VERY SLOW GOING JUST DOING THE MATH IT WAS PROBABLY MINUTE PER FLOOR BECAUSE KNOW IT TOOK US ABOUT HALF AN HOUR TO GO 31 FLIGHTS
WE GOT DOWN TO ABOUT THE 11TH FLOOR AND IT
JUST STOPPED COMPLETELY WE WERE IN STAIRWAY AT THIS POINT AND GUYS ARE LIKE COME ON COME ON LETS GO
LETS GO AGAIN NO PANIC WE FOUND OUT LATER THAT THE REASON THAT THAT STAIRWELL WASNT MOVING WAS
BECAUSE THERE WAS DEBRIS AT THE BOTTOM AT THE BASE OF THE STAIRS BECAUSE THAT STAIRWELL WAS FACING
DONT KNOW IF YOU KNOW THE LAYOUT OF THE BUILDING BUT FROM WHAT GATHER THAT STAIRWAY WAS FACING SOUTH
MYSELF

SMITH
THAT WAS FULL OF DEBRIS THAT CAME INTO THE LOBBY AND
STAIRWAY WAS FACING NORTH WE WERE BASICALLY PRETTY CLOSE TO THE DOOR LEADING TO THE 11TH FLOOR AND
FIREFIGHTER DONT KNOW IF IT WAS FIREFIGHTER
IT WAS DARK AND DIDNT SHINE MY LIGHT UP AT HIM OR
ANYTHING LIKE THAT BUT HE JUST SAID LETS TRY THESE OTHER STAIRS THINK THEYRE CLEAR THATS
BASICALLY WHAT HE SAID TO ME
SO TURNED TO ALL THE GUYS THAT WERE IN THE
VICINITY OF ME FEW OF THEM WERE MY GUYS FEW OF THEM WERE LADDER DONT KNOW WHO ELSE BUT THE GUYS THAT HEARD ME SWITCHED OVER AND THE OTHER GUYS PASSED THE ORDER ON TO EVERYBODY ELSE THAT WAS IN THAT GENERAL VICINITY AS FOUND OUT LATER THE GUYS WHO DIDNT SWITCH AT THAT FLOOR BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY IF YOURE BELOW AND YOURE EVACUATING YOURE RELUCTANT TO COME UP AND GO OUT SO THEY SWITCHED OVER AT EITHER
THE 10TH OR THE 9TH
ACTUALLY SPOKE WITH CAPTAIN IT BEGINS WITH FROM ENGINE WHO DID SPEAK WITH ENGINE
33S OFFICER PFEIFER WHO DID MAKE IT OUT ON THE 9TH
FLOOR AND HE SAID JUST TALKING BETWEEN THE TWO OF US YOU KNOW THE SENSE OF URGENCY HE DIDNT SEE IT AS
MUCH IN HIM AS THAT HE HAD IT HIMSELF THAT WAS THE
10

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WHOLE THING IF YOU REALIZED THAT YOU JUST HAD TO GET AWAY FROM THAT BUILDING IT MAY HAVE SAVED YOUR LIFE
DONT KNOW IT DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU WERE IN THE BUILDING AND EVERYTHING ELSE
BUT THERE DEFINITELY WERE FIREFIGHTERS THAT WE WERE PICKING UP ON THE WAY DOWN THAT HAD NO
KNOWLEDGE SOME THAT WE GAVE THEM THAT KNOWLEDGE THAT THE ORDER TO EVACUATE WAS GIVEN AND THEY WERE LIKE
THEY DIDNT BELIEVE US GUYS WERE FORCING DOORS AND CARRYING ROLL UPS WE WOULD SAY LISTEN FORGET ABOUT THAT DROP YOUR ROLL UPS YOU CAN GET THEM LATER IF YOU WANT JUST GET OUT
BUT LIKE SAID JUST FELT LIKE WE HAD TO GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE AND ALL MY GUYS WERE KNEW ON THEIR WAY OUT LIKE SAID IF KNEW THAT THE OTHER BUILDING WENT DOWN PROBABLY WOULD HAVE MADE MORE IT WAS DIFFICULT TO STAY TOGETHER AS UNIT THERES NO DOUBT ABOUT IT BUT IF HAD THAT KNOWLEDGE YOU KNOW DONT KNOW DONT KNOW WHAT WOULD HAVE CHANGED IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFICULT TO DO BUT WOULD HAVE TRIED HARDER DONT KNOW BECAUSE YOU JUST FELT LIKE ONCE YOU GOT ON THE LOWER FLOORS YOU WERE BASICALLY SAFE YOU KNOW YOU HAD TO GET OUT
11

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SO WE DID MOVE TO THAT OTHER STAIR AND LOT OF GUYS CAME WITH ME IT WAS DIFFICULT TO TELL WHO
KNOW COUPLE OF MY GUYS CAME BECAUSE COULD SEE THEM BUT THEN SAW THE OTHER GUYS WERE PASSING THAT ORDER
ON AND GUYS DID SWITCH OVER AT THE OTHER FLOORS
BECAUSE LIKE SAID SPOKE WITH ENGINE HE SWITCHED OVER AT THE 9TH FLOOR IT WAS SLOW GOING IN THAT STAIRWELL ALSO STAIRWELL BUT NOT AS SLOW SO WE MADE BETTER TIME GOING DOWN THAT STAIRWELL
ONCE GOT TO THE LOBBY SAW THE DEBRIS OBVIOUSLY FROM THE OTHER TOWER BUT YOU STILL COULDNT FATHOM IT DIDNT REGISTER THAT THAT BUILDING HAD COLLAPSED WAS THINKING MAYBE THERE WAS PARTIAL COLLAPSE MAYBE ABOVE THE PLANE BUT THERE WAS NO ONE THERE THAT SAID GET YOUR ASS OUT OF HERE THE OTHER TOWER COLLAPSED IT WAS JUST WE GOT DOWN THERE AND WE SAW THE DEBRIS AND WE JUST WENT WHAT THE FUCK IS
GOING ON HERE BASICALLY
WHEN STEPPED OUT OF THE LOBBY ONTO WEST STREET THE SIDEWALK LEADING TO WEST STREET THERE WAS
CHIEF OUT THERE WITH BULLHORN AGAIN DIDNT KNOW HIM PERSONALLY DONT REMEMBER WHO HE WAS
DONT KNOW IF HES ALIVE TODAY BUT HE BASICALLY WAS YELLING AT EVERYBODY HEAD NORTH OBVIOUSLY THE
12

SMITH
REASON HE WAS TELLING EVERYBODY TO HEAD NORTH WAS BECAUSE HEADING SOUTH YOU WERE GOING TO COME INTO
PILE OF SHIT WE DIDNT KNOW THAT THE ANGLE THAT WE CAME OUT OF WE WERE FACING IT SO IM JUST LOOKING AROUND BUT YOU REALLY HAD TO LOOK AROUND BEND TO SEE THE SOUTH TOWER ANYWAY WHETHER IT WAS THERE OR NOT YOU COULD SEE ALL THE DEBRIS OBVIOUSLY BUT AGAIN IT STILL DIDNT REGISTER THAT THE WHOLE THING WENT DOWN AT THAT POINT BUT KNEW IT WAS DEFINITELY NOT JUST ANOTHER PLANE
SO WHAT WE DID WAS WE WERE GOING TO WAIT
THERE FOR ALL OUR GUYS BUT KNEW THAT THEY WERE BELOW
ME IN THE STAIR BETWEEN THAT AND THE CHIEF SAYING
YOU KNOW WE WERE SORT OF LIKE SLOWING DOWN HES
LIKE NO BASICALLY HE WAS JUST TELLING US GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE GET AWAY FROM THIS BUILDING
HE DIDNT SAY THIS BUILDING IS ABOUT TO COME DOWN OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT BUT YOU JUST SAW HE DEFINITELY HAD
SENSE OF URGENCY ABOUT HIM SO TOLD MY GUYS LISTEN THEY WERE IN FRONT OF US LETS TRY TO REACH THEM ON THE RADIO WELL HOOK UP COUPLE OF BLOCKS AWAY AND WELL GET EVERYBODY TOGETHER AND REGROUP AND FIGURE OUT WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON AT THAT POINT IM THINKING THERES SOME SORT OF STAGING AREA OR
13

WHATEVER AROUND THE BLOCK
SO WE START MAKING OUR WAY UP WEST STREET
GOT ABOUT TWO BLOCKS TWO OF MY FIREFIGHTERS WERE
SMITH
THE MEDIAN JUST SITTING THERE DAZED TIRED CONFUSED SAID LI STEN GUYS
LOT OF OTHER GUYS AROUND YET DIDNT SEE STAGING AREA OR ANYTHING YET SO SAID LETS
KEEP MOVING AGAIN DONT KNOW WHAT REALLY MADE ME THINK THAT BEING TWO BLOCKS AWAY WASNT SAFE HAVE
NO IDEA TO THIS DAY WHAT MADE ME REALIZE THAT BUT ALL THE DEBRIS SAW LIKE SAID YOU JUST KNEW YOU HAD TO
GET AWAY FROM IT
SO THEY DID GET UP AND KEEP MOVING AND ABOUT
WITHIN THE NEXT TEN OR TWENTY SECONDS THE BUILDING
CAME DOWN GUESS WE WERE OUT OF THE BUILDING
SOMEWHERE AROUND MINUTE IT CAME DOWN AND EVEN THEN YOU LOOKED BACK ALL YOU SEE YOU KNOW HOW FAST THOSE BUILDINGS CAME DOWN ALL YOU SEE IS THE DUST AND THE DEBRIS AND AGAIN IT JUST DOESNT CLICK THAT THESE BUILDINGS CAN COME DOWN MEAN WASNT WORKING IN 93 BUT WAS THERE THE NEXT DAY AND SAW WHAT HAPPENED THE DAMAGE AND YOU JUST COULDNT BELIEVE
THAT THOSE BUILDINGS COULD COME DOWN YOU JUST SAW EVERYTHING AND ITS LIKE OH MY GOD WHAT THE HELL
SITTING ON
BASICALLY DIDNT SEE
14

15
BUT YOU KNEW YOU HAD TO DO SOMETHING
WROTE IN THERE THAT YOU HAD FEW CHOICES YOU COULD
EITHER RUN INTO BUILDING DIVE BEHIND CAR JUMP
INTO CAR UNDER CAR WHATEVER STILL HAD MY MASK ON MY BACK YOU COULD STOP TO PUT IT ON THAT WAS ANOTHER OPTION YOU HAD SAID LET ME JUST RUN CAN RUN KNOW CAN RUN THATS WHAT IM GOING TO DO
ONE OF THE GUYS FROM MY HOUSE WAS RIGHT NEAR ME THE OTHER GUYS WERE SLIGHTLY BEHIND ME WE WERE BASICALLY JUST RUNNING FOR OUR LIVES NOT KNOWING WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE NEXT 20 SECONDS TO
WHATEVER
HAPPENED DID ANOTHER PLANE HIT DID PART OF THE BUILDING COME DOWN WHATS GOING ON
SO SAW CLEARING WAS THE STREET WASNT NEAR CAR OR
MINUTE
IN THE MIDDLE OF
SMITH
BUILDING SO THAT DEFINITELY HELPED MAKE MY DECISION EASIER TO RUN
SAW CLEARING RAN STAYED STRAIGHT DIDNT RUN INTO ANYTHING THE CLOUD CAUGHT ME IT WAS PITCH
BLACK KEPT RUNNING OBVIOUSLY LITTLE SLOW BECAUSE YOU DONT WANT TO RUN INTO SOMETHING AND GUESS IN ABOUT 20 TO 30 SECONDS EVERYTHING SETTLED DOWN YOU STARTED SEEING SOME LIGHT AND JUST KEPT MOVING ONE OF MY GUYS THAT WAS RIGHT NEAR ME WAS STILL NEAR ME

THE OTHER TWO WERENT WE TALKED TO EACH OTHER GRABBED GUY FROM ENGINE 214 TOBY WHO LOST ALL HIS
SMITH
FOUND OUT LATER OR MOST OF THEM AND WE STARTED
GUYS
WALKING UP TRYING TO CONTACT GUYS ON THE RADIO 33
LADDER THERE WERE COUPLE OF GUYS FROM LADDER ON THE RADIO AT THIS POINT NOW THE RADIO WAS PRETTY OPEN
BECAUSE THERE WERENT LOT OF SURVIVORS REALLY GUYS RAN IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS IT HAD LOT TO DO WITH THE CHOICES YOU MADE WHICH DIRECTION YOU RAN WHAT YOU DECIDED TO DO HOW CLOSE TO THE BUILDING YOU STAYED YOUR SENSE OF URGENCY ALL OF THOSE THINGS
WHEN WE GOT OUT OF THERE THERE WERE AMBULANCES LINED UP ALONG WEST STREET WEST SIDE
HIGHWAY PEOPLE THROWING WATER AT US GIVING US WATER GIVING US CELL PHONES TO TALK TO PEOPLE AND SAID LETS JUST KEEP HEADING NORTH THERE WERE FIVE OF US THAT GOT OUT OF THERE AND EITHER VISUALLY OR VERBALLY SPOKE WITH THEM AS WAS GOING UP WEST
STREET COUPLE OF GUYS NEEDED MINOR MEDICAL ASSISTANCE EYES OUR EYES WERE FUCKED UP BUT WE JUST
HAD WATER SPLASHED IN THEM AND THEY WERENT TOO BAD JUST TOLD MY GUY THAT DID NEED THE MEDICAL ASSISTANCE THAT WAS WITH ME AND WE KEPT THE GUY FROM 214 WITH US LETS TRY TO FIND THE STAGING AREA
16

SMITH
SO IM TRYING TO CONTACT GUYS ON THE RADIO
AND AS YOU KNOW PROBABLY FROM TALKING TO GUYS OR WHATEVER THERE WASNT ANY KIND OF STAGING AREA OR
ANYTHING AT THAT POINT IT WAS JUST MASS CONFUSION
IT WAS THE GUYS COMING IN ON THE RECALL THAT WERE GOING
DIDNT REALIZE
DIDNT REALIZE THE SCOPE OF IT
WE GOT UP FOUR OR FIVE BLOCKS AT THAT POINT
AND SAID ALL RIGHT WE CANT GET AHOLD OF ANYBODY ON THE RADIO EXCEPT FOR THE GUYS THAT JUST
MENTIONED FROM LADDER NOBODY FROM 33 NO CHIEFS COULDNT GET ANYBODY ON THE RADIO REALLY WE MAY HAVE STARTED TO GET OUT OF RADIO RANGE AS FAR AS ANYBODY RIGHT NEXT TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER BUT SEEING WHAT JUST HAPPENED WE JUST KNEW WE HAD TO GET AWAY FROM THERE AND TRY TO REGROUP AND FIGURE OUT WHAT THE HELL WAS GOING ON SO SAID WELL ALL RIGHT WERE NOT GETTING ANYBODY ON THE RADIO LETS GO TO THE NEAREST FIREHOUSE
LADDER WAS THE NEAREST FIREHOUSE WE WENT THERE COUPLE OF THE GUYS FROM LADDER THAT
TO TAKE CONTROL OF THE SITUATION
THAT EVEN AT THAT POINT KNEW IN
FIREFIGHTERS WERE KILLED OR INJURED
MINUTES OR WHATEVER DURING WHAT HAPPENED BUT STILL
MY MIND THAT IN THE LAST 45
17

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MENTIONED THAT WERE IN THE VICINITY OF THE BUILDING
WITH US WERE THERE THEY WERE MISSING THEIR OFFICER AT
THAT POINT THEY WERE SHAKEN UP JUST LIKE WE WERE SAID WELL WHATS GOING ON WE WERE LISTENING TO THE DEPARTMENT RADIO WAS GOING TO CALL THE DISPATCHER BUT WAS ALREADY IN HOUSE WATCH SO
SAID WELL LETS TURN ON OUR TV AND SEE WHATS GOING ON HERE THATS WHERE WE GOT LOT OF THE
INFORMATION THE FACT THAT THE BUILDINGS COMPLETELY CAME DOWN YOU REALLY SAW THE CARNAGE THEN BECAUSE
OBVIOUSLY THEY KEPT SHOWING IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN AT THAT POINT
SO LISTENING TO THE RADIO IN QUARTERS
HEARD THAT THERE WAS STAGING AREA UP AT LADDER 20 AGAIN THINKING THAT THERE WERE LOT OF SURVIVORS WERE ALL GOING TO GET UP THERE REGROUP AND DO WHAT WEVE GOT TO DO YOU KNOW FIND OUT THAT ALL MY GUYS WERE UP THERE YOU KNOW EVERYBODY GOT OUT BUT THATS WHEN STARTED TO REALIZE HOW MANY GUYS WERE INJURED SERIOUSLY OR HURT ACTUALLY MORE GUYS KILLED THAN INJURED TALKING ABOUT THE CHIEFS THAT WERE MISSING BECAUSE GUYS WERE COMING UP THERE AND LIKE MYSELF WE WERE OUTSIDE THE BUILDING NEAR CHIEFS AND REPORTING
THAT THOSE GUYS WERE MISSING OR WHATEVER
18

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BASICALLY JUST STAYED THERE FOR COUPLE
HOURS FEW HOURS WAITING FOR WORD OF ALL MY GUYS AND SENT ONE OF MY GUYS TO THE FIREHOUSE BECAUSE
SAW WHAT LADDER HAD DONE THEY WENT TO THEIR FIREHOUSE AFTER EVERYTHING SAID WELL MAYBE THEY
WENT UP THERE GET UP THERE AND SEE WHATS GOING ON ILL WAIT HERE HE CALLED ME FROM THERE AND NO WORD AND JUST TOLD HIM TO STAY THERE STAYED AT LADDER 20 DIVISION QUARTERS FEW HOURS AND THATS WHEN WE JUST GOT DRIBS AND DRABS OF WHAT WAS GOING ON
THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH IT AS THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS WENT ON THATS WHEN YOU JUST REALIZED THE SCOPE OF IT
SO YOU LOST TRACK OF THE GUYS FROM YOUR COMPANY ON THE WAY DOWN YOU HAD THEM ALL TOGETHER
YES UNFORTUNATELY WHEN THE ORDER TO
EVACUATE WAS GIVEN WHEN THE OTHER TOWER WENT DOWN
WAS IN THE PROCESS OF GATHERING ALL MY GUYS BECAUSE TWO OF THE GUYS WHO WERE LITTLE HEAVY THEY WERE NOT
MAKING IT UP THE STAIRWAY AS FAST AS WE WERE WHAT WAS GOING THROUGH MY MIND WAS WERE GOING TO GET UP AS HIGH AS WE CAN GET AND WERE PROBABLY GOING TO COME UPON PEOPLE WHO WERE BURNED WHO WERE ON THE PERIPHERY OF
THE CRASH WERE GOING TO HELP THEM OUT DIDNT SEE
19

ANYBODY PUT THE FIRE OUT MEAN YOU COULD SEE IT FROM THE OUTSIDE IT WAS EIGHT FLOORS WHATEVER THE
HELL IT WAS THAT WASNT GOING TO BE PUT OUT ANY TIME SOON MAYBE YOU WERE GOING TO PUT OUT FIRES IN CERTAIN
AREAS WHERE THERES OTHER PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE
CAN RESCUE WHO KNOWS YOU JUST REALLY DIDNT KNOW SO THATS WHY SAID ON THE 31ST FLOOR WE HAD 33 WITH US SPOKE TO THEIR OFFICER SAID ALL RIGHT WELL WORK TOGETHER WELL GO UP THE REST OF THE WAY TOGETHER
SMITH
LIKE SAID WHEN THE OTHER WENT DOWN ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE WAS ABLE
UNFORTUNATELY
BUILDING
TO CONTACT MY GUYS ON THE RADIO THE TWO HEAVIER SET
GUYS THEY DID KNOW THAT THE ORDER TO EVACUATE WAS GIVEN THEY ALSO HAPPENED TO BE NEAR CHIEF AND THEY STARTED WORKING THEIR WAY DOWN BETWEEN THEM AND THE GUYS THAT WERE WITH ME KNEW THAT ALL OF US HAD GOTTEN THE WORD AND WE WERE ALL ON OUR WAY OUT SO THAT MUCH KNEW BETWEEN THE FACT THAT WE WERE FIVE FLOORS APART OTHER FIREFIGHTERS WERE JUMPING IN ON STAIRWELLS AS YOU WERE GOING DOWN WE WERE STREWN OUT LADDER AND ENGINE 33 IN THE PROCESS OF EVACUATING GOT SPREAD OUT YOU MAY HAVE BEEN LIKE THIS AT FIRST AND THEN MORE GUYS JUMPED IN AND YOU JUST BECAME MORE
20
YOU

AND MORE SPREAD OUT IN THE STAIRCASE BUT AGAIN
SMITH
YOU JUST FELT LIKE YOURE GOING TO GET OUT OF THE BUILDING
YOU KNOW WELL REGROUP IN THE LOBBY ONCE YOU GOT TO THE LOBBY AND SAW THE DAMAGE YOU KNEW YOU WERENT GOING TO STAY THERE AT THAT POINT THEN SAID ALL
RIGHT WELL REGROUP COUPLE BLOCKS AWAY
THAT DIDNT HAPPEN FOR SOME OF US IT DID
NOT FOR ALL OF US LIKE SAID KNOW 33 DID HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE TO SWITCH STAIRS AT SOME POINT THEY DID SWITCH STAIRS THEY DIDNT DO IT AS QUICKLY AS WE DID OBVIOUSLY OR THEY HUNG AROUND TOO CLOSE TO THE
BUILDING OR THEY CAME UPON SOMEONE THAT NEEDED HELP
AND THEY HELPED THEM YOU JUST HAVE NO WAY OF
KNOWING THATS WHAT TELL THE FAMILIES TELL THE FAMILIES THAT IN ALL PROBABILITY THEY CAME UPON SOMEONE THAT MAYBE NEEDED THEIR HELP FIREFIGHTERS CIVILIANS WHATEVER AND THEY HELPED THEM THERES NO WAY OF KNOWING WHETHER 30 SECONDS TOO LONG IN THAT BUILDING
WAS 30 SECONDS TOO LONG
HANDY TALKIES ON CHANNEL OVERLOADED HOW
WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE TRAFFIC
VERY TO AN INDIVIDUAL
WAS TRYING TO
VERY VERY DIFFICULT TO GET MESSAGE YOU WERE HEARING MESSAGES ON THERE
MONITOR DIFFERENT THINGS GUY HAD
21

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ASKED ME IF HEARD CAPTAIN BROWN FROM LADDER
GAVE WORD OF PARTIAL COLLAPSE AT SOME POINT HEARD
SOMEBODY MENTION THAT TO ME DID YOU HEAR THAT DIDNT HEAR THAT BUT DID HEAR LOTS OF MESSAGES ON
THE WAY UP DEFINITELY CLOGGED WITH LOT OF GUYS IN NEED OF OXYGEN CPR FIREFIGHTERS DOWN SAW LOT OF
FIREMEN ON THE WAY UP CIVILIANS WERE GIVING US
WATER JUST TOLD MY GUYS LISTEN YOU DONT WANT TO BE USELESS WHEN YOU GET UP THERE DONT RUN YOURE
NOT GOING TO RUN UP THE STAIRS WITH 100 POUNDS OF GEAR ON YOUR BACK
PACE YOURSELVES
PACE YOURSELVES WE TRIED TO THE BEST WE
COULD THATS WHY WASNT GOING TO TRY TO URGE THOSE HEAVIER SET GUYS ALONG TOO MUCH THEY WOULD MAKE THEIR WAY UP AT THEIR OWN PACE LIKE SAID AT 31 WE WERE TRYING TO GET THEM TO CATCH UP TO US AND AT THAT POINT
THINK WAS JUST SAYING TO MYSELF ALL RIGHT FROM THIS POINT ON WERE GOING TO STAY TOGETHER
BY THE 31ST FLOOR YOU KNEW THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE REALLY DIFFICULT IT MUST HAVE BEEN REALLY GOING SLOW KNOW HOW AM WITH THE BUNKER GEAR CAN GET ABOUT FIVE FLOORS AND THEN IM REALLY HURTING WITH MASK AND THESE GUYS ARE CARRYING ROLL UPS SO YOU
22

23
AND YOU KNEW YOU HAD ANOTHER 40 OR 50 TO GO
IF YOU WERE GOING TO REACH THE FIRE RIGHT
YES YOU DIDNT KNOW HOW LONG IT WAS GOING
TO TAKE YOU TO GET THERE DONT KNOW HOW LONG IT TOOK US TO GET WHERE WE DID WOULD GUESS DOING THE
MATH WE GOT THERE AT 900 OCLOCK PROBABLY GOT TO THE 31ST FLOOR AT ABOUT SOMEWHERE BETWEEN QUARTER TO 1000
AND 1000 OCLOCK IN THAT RANGE BECAUSE GUESS THE OTHER BUILDING THE FIRST BUILDING WENT DOWN FIVE TO
GUYS BY THE 31ST FLOOR YOU MUST HAVE BEEN DYING YES
SMITH
1000 OR THEREABOUTS
LETS LOOK AT THE RECORD ITS SOMEWHERE IN
THAT RANGE SOUTH TOWER COLLAPSES 955
SO THATS PRETTY MUCH WHAT IT TOOK US 55
MINUTES PROBABLY 50 MINUTES TO GET 31 FLOORS ITWAS SLOWGO
DEFINITELY SLOW GO THE GUYS LIKE SAID WE EVEN STOPPED ON COUPLE OF FLOORS JUST TO TAKE
LOOK AND SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON AND SEE IF ANYBODY NEEDED OUR HELP GET WATER CIVILIANS WERE GIVING US WATER
THE CIVILIANS THAT WERE GIVING YOU WATER
WHILE YOU WERE GOING UP THESE PEOPLE WERE TOLD TO STAY
RIGHT

SMITH
IN PLACE YOU THINK ON THE FLOORS OR THEY HAD NO SENSE TO EVACUATE THEMSELVES THAT THERE WAS NEED TO EVACUATE THEMSELVES OR WHAT DO YOU FIGURE YOUR THEIR ATTITUDE WAS
THINK THAT YOU HAD PROBABLY THEY LOOKED
LIKE IF HAD TO MAKE GUESS NOW NEVER REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT IT BUT NOW THAT YOU MENTION IT THEY LOOKED LIKE PROBABLY FIRE WARDEN KIND OF PEOPLE WHO MAYBE THEY SHOULD BE THE LAST ONES TO LEAVE THAT FLOOR LIKE MAKE SURE EVERYONE ELSE IS OUT OF THERE BECAUSE
DIDNT SEE TOO MANY PEOPLE ON EACH FLOOR MIGHT HAVE STOPPED ON TWO FLOORS ON THE WAY UP THEY
DEFINITELY LOOKED LIKE RESPONSIBLE TYPE PEOPLE WHO WERE MAKING SURE THAT THEIR FLOOR WAS EVACUATED
WHEN YOU GOT DOWN TO THE FIRST FLOOR DID YOU GO THROUGH THE LOBBY TO EXIT OR DID YOU EXIT LIKE
DIRECTLY TO THE STREET
NO WE WENT THROUGH THE LOBBY
WHO DID YOU SEE IN THE LOBBY WHAT WERE THE CONDITIONS IN THE LOBBY AS FAR AS THE COMMAND POST
REMEMBER SEEING THE LOBBY COMMAND POST
STILL STANDING NO ONE WAS MANNING IT THE CHIEF
SAW ON THE WAY OUT DIDNT REALLY SEE ANYBODY
MILLING ABOUT THINK ONCE EVERYBODY GOT DOWN TO THAT
24

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LEVEL AND SAW THE DAMAGE THEY JUST REALIZED IT WAS GOOD IDEA TO GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE THAT CHIEF WAS STILL THERE AT THAT POINT DONT KNOW HOW LONG HE STAYED BUT HE WAS THERE WHEN CAME BY
THATS PRETTY MUCH IT UNLESS YOU HAVE ANY
MORE QUESTIONS
WHEN YOU WENT THROUGH THE LOBBY HAD THE
WINDOWS BEEN BLOWN OUT IN THE NORTH TOWER YOU WERE EXITING THE NORTH TOWER LOBBY WAS THE LOBBY FULL OF
DEBRIS WAS IT FULL OF THE DUST FROM THE SOUTH TOWER
HAVING COLLAPSED YES
COULD YOU SEE YOUR WAY OUT WERE THINGS THAT
BAD OR
IF HAD TO GUESS ITS HARD TO SAY YOU COULD SEE YOUR WAY OUT THERE WASNT STILL LOT OF
DUST OR ANYTHING IN THE AIR IT WAS JUST LOT OF DEBRIS STREWN ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE WALKED TO WHERE THE DOORS WERE WOULD LEAD ME TO BELIEVE THINKING NOW
THAT THE WINDOWS WERE MOSTLY INTACT BECAUSE WE WENT AROUND THEM AS YOU CAME OUT OF THE STAIRWELL YOU HAD THIS LITTLE LOBBY AND THEN YOUD COME OUT AND THE WINDOWS WERE HERE AND THE DOORWAY WAS OVER HERE SO THE QUICKEST WAY OUT IF THE WINDOWS WERENT THERE WE
25

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WOULD HAVE WALKED STRAIGHT THROUGH THOSE BUT WE WENT OVER TO THE DOORWAY SO THAT WOULD LEAD ME TO BELIEVE THAT MOST OF THEM WERE STILL PROBABLY NOT FULLY INTACT BUT AT LEAST TO THE DEGREE WHERE YOU COULDNT GO THROUGH THEM
WHO DID YOU SEE OUTSIDE WHEN YOU WERE GOING NORTH ON WEST STREET DID YOU SEE THE COMMAND POST
DID YOU SEE GANCI FEEHAN THE CHAPLAIN
NO DID NOT NO THE ONLY ONE SAW WAS
THAT CHIEF AND MOST OF THE FIREFIGHTERS SAW WERE LISTENING TO THAT CHIEF AND HEADING NORTH KNOW SOME FIREFIGHTERS ALSO HEADED WEST BECAUSE AT THAT POINT
WAS MAKING THE DECISION SHOULD WE GO NORTH SHOULD WE HEAD TOWARDS THE WATER WHERE WOULD BE THE BEST PLACE
TO GO AND JUST MADE THE DECISION TO GO NORTH
AGAIN DONT KNOW WHO THAT CHIEF WAS DIDNT RECOGNIZE HIM PERSONALLY BUT HIM AND THAT
CHIEF ON THE FLOOR WITH ME AND THEN WHOEVER TAPPED ME ON THE SHOULDER AND TOLD ME TO SWITCH STAIRS THEY HAD LOT TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT IM SITTING HERE TALKING
TO YOU ESPECIALLY THE GUY THAT TOLD ME TO SWITCH
STAIRS BECAUSE AS IT TURNED OUT THE GUYS WHO SWITCHED STAIRS AT THAT LEVEL THAT HE WAS AT LOT OF THEM SURVIVED AS FAR AS CAN TELL AND THE GUYS WHO
26

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SWITCHED BELOW IT COULD HAVE JUST BEEN THE TIME IT
TOOK THEM TO GET FROM WHERE THEY WERE BELOW THE 11TH FLOOR TO THE 10TH FLOOR AND THEN SWITCHED OVER AND WERE SLIGHTLY BEHIND US KNOW GUYS WHO WERE LIKE 30 SECONDS OUT OF THE BUILDING ENGINE BEING ONE OF
THEM CANT REMEMBER WHO ELSE CANT REMEMBER IF
IT WAS ENGINE OR SOMEBODY ELSE DOWN THERE WHO SAID THAT THEY WERE OUT OF THE BUILDING ABOUT 30 SECONDS AND SOME OF THEIR GUYS SURVIVED BECAUSE THEY RAN THIS WAY AND OTHER GUYS RAN ANOTHER WAY
REMEMBER PASSING GUYS SAW GUY NAME ON THE LIST WHO WAS BY HIS RIG THAT WAS PARKED PRETTY CLOSE TO THE BUILDING AND REMEMBER PATTING HIM ON THE BUTT BECAUSE KNEW HIM PERSONALLY AND SAID COME ON YOUD BETTER KEEP MOVING SAW HIS NAME ON THE LIST AS ONE OF THE FIREFIGHTERS DEFINITELY THE SENSE OF URGENCY WAS HUGE FACTOR IN YOUR ABILITY TO GET OUT OF THERE DONT KNOW WHAT YOU COULD ATTEST THAT TO EXPERIENCE KNOWLEDGE OF THE FACT THAT THE OTHER BUILDING WENT DOWN DID YOU HAVE THAT KNOWLEDGE
DONT THINK LOT OF GUYS DID LOT OF GUYS SPOKE WITH DID NOT
SOME GUYS TOOK THE TIME TO LOOK OUT THE WINDOWS TO SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON THE FACT THAT GOT
27

SMITH
THE REPORTS FROM THE FBI GUY THAT THERE WERE MORE PLANES IN THE AIR UNACCOUNTED FOR TOLD MY GUYS TO
STAY AWAY FROM THE WINDOWS BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THATS NOT THE PLACE YOU WANT TO BE AT THAT POINT THE TWO PLANES THAT DID KNOW OF HIT ON AN UPPER FLOOR SO ONCE YOU GOT INTO THE LOWER FLOORS THE THING THATS GOING THROUGH MY MIND IS PLANES ARE HITTING THIS BUILDING HIGHER UP SO ONCE YOU GOT DOWN TO WHERE WE WERE YOU JUST FELT THAT YOU WERE
PROBABLY SAFER
RELATIVELY SAFE THE ONE THING THAT GOES THROUGH MY MIND ALL THE TIME IS WOULD THINGS HAVE BEEN
DIFFERENT IF WE KNEW THE OTHER TOWER WENT DOWN THATS
SOMETHING AGAIN ITS PURELY HINDSIGHT BUT ITS DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT GOES THROUGH MY MIND WOULD
THAT HAVE CHANGED THINGS
OKAY THATS AN INTERESTING POINT
WOULD IT HAVE INDUCED PANIC ITS REALLY
HARD TO SAY
THATS AN INTERESTING POINT PANIC MAY BE GOOD BECAUSE ITS FRIGHT TO FLIGHT SYNDROME
YES ANOTHER POINT TOO IS THAT THERE WERENT LOT OF CIVILIANS LEFT AT THIS POINT ID
SAY OF THE PEOPLE SAW EVACUATING THE BUILDING 95
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PERCENT OF THEM WERE FIREFIGHTERS AT THAT POINT THEY WERE OUT CIVILIANS WERE OUT ALL THE CIVILIAN
CASUALTIES FROM WHAT CAN PIECE TOGETHER WERE EITHER PEOPLE THAT HUNG AROUND TOO CLOSE TO THE BUILDINGS OR WERE IN THE SOUTH TOWER AND THEY BASICALLY HAD NO CHANCE BECAUSE KNOW IVE HEARD AND IM SURE YOU YE HEARD THAT THEY GOT THE ORDER TO STAY IN PLACE AND IF THEY DID THEY DIED AND IF THEY JUST DISREGARDED THAT AND HAD TIME TO GET OUT THEY GOT OUT BUT THE PEOPLE IN OUR BUILDING WITHOUT DOUBT THEY MUST HAVE GOTTEN THE ORDER TO EVACUATE BECAUSE THE STAIRWELL WAS FULL OF CIVILIANS THEY WERE ALL ORDERLY GETTING OUT BECAUSE THE STAIRWELLS WERENT FULL OF ANYTHING OBVIOUSLY
THE LOWER FLOORS WERE CLEAR
WERE THE LIGHTS ON IN THE STAIRCASES
LIGHTS WERE ON
WERE THERE ANY COMMUNICATIONS GOING ON LIKE
BUILDING ANNOUNCEMENTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT ANY KIND OF SUPERVISORY ANNOUNCEMENTS ENCOURAGING PEOPLE WHICH
WAY TO GO OR JUST TO GET OUT WERE THERE ANY LOUDSPEAKER ANNOUNCEMENTS OR WAS IT JUST WORD OF MOUTH THAT YOU RECALL
DONT RECALL ANY THEY COULD HAVE BEEN THERE IN THE BACKGROUND WAS TRYING TO CONCENTRATE
29

ATTACKED THIS ISNT AN ACCIDENT SO IF
YOURE RESPONDING FROM MIDTOWN YOURE ALREADY IN DEFENSIVE
SMITH
ON OUR RADIO AS FAR AS WHAT KIND OF INFORMATION COULD
PIECE TOGETHER FROM THERE BECAUSE LIKE SAID WHEN WE WERE IN THE LOBBY YOU GO UP AS AN OFFICER AND YOU
DONT GET AN ORDER TO DO SOMETHING AND BOTH THE TOWERS JUST GOT HIT BY PLANES OBVIOUSLY IM JUST THINKING ABOUT AT THIS POINT YOURE ALMOST IN DEFENSIVE
MODE NOT QUITE BECAUSE YOU STILL WANT TO GET UP THERE
BUT LIKE FOUND OUT FROM GUYS WHO SAW IT ON
TV RIGHT AWAY PEOPLE ON TV WERE SPECULATING OR THEMSELVES SPECULATING THESE BUILDINGS HAVE BEEN
MODE WE DIDNT GET INTO THAT MODE REALLY UNTIL WE WENT TO EVACUATE THE BUILDING SO WE WERE JUST DOING WHAT WE ALWAYS DO
THE OTHER PART THATS HINDSIGHT TOO SOMETHING THAT THINK ABOUT AND AS CHIEF YOU KNOW
THAT AT REGULAR FIRES YOU HAVE THAT 20 MINUTE RULE IF THIS FIRE IS OUT OF CONTROL FOR 20 MINUTES IVE GOT TO
START THINKING ABOUT GETTING MY GUYS OUT OF THERE
BECAUSE NOW IF THE BUILDING COLLAPSES ITS GOING TO BECOME MORE OF FACTOR THAN ANYTHING ELSE
OBVIOUSLY
THINK THERE WAS LITTLE BIT OF
30

SMITH
TITANIC MENTALITY BECAUSE OF 1993 EVERYBODY SAW THE DAMAGE THAT WAS DONE AND THAT BUILDING DIDNT GO DOWN
DONT KNOW YOU HEAR REPORTS THERE WERE ENGINEERS DOWN THERE THAT SAID NO THESE BUILDINGS WONT GO DOWN THEN YOU HEAR INTERVIEWS OF GOOD ENGINEERS ON TV THAT WERENT AT THE SCENE BUT WHO WERE WATCHING IT ON TV AND SAID NO THESE BUILDINGS ARE GOING DOWN KNEW THESE BUILDINGS WERE GOING TO GO DOWN
SO OBVIOUSLY HAD NO PRIOR KNOWLEDGE THAT THESE BUILDINGS WOULD GO DOWN NO ONE DID HAVENT SEEN AN INTERVIEW WITH CHIEF DUNNE YET DONT KNOW IF YOU HAVE AS FAR AS WHAT HE KNEW THAT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW
HAVENT SEEN IT
WHAT THOUGHTS WERE GOING THROUGH HIS HEAD
WHEN HE WAS WATCHING IT ON TV BECAUSE DONT THINK
THERES PROBABLY ANYBODY MORE QUALIFIED THAN HE IS AS FAR AS FIRES GO BUT DIDNT HEAR THINGS LIKE JET
FUEL BURNS AT 2000 DEGREES BEAMS MELT AT 1500
DEGREES ITS HARD TO SAY
THATS THE THING THAT THINK ABOUT AS FAR AS
THE CHIEFS GO LISTEN EVERYBODY DID THE BEST THEY COULD AND IM NOT BLAMING ANYONE BECAUSE DIDNT THINK THOSE BUILDINGS WOULD GO DOWN BUT YOU SAY TO
31

32
THAT WE KNOW WHAT THINGS BURN AT AND WE KNOW WHAT THINGS FAIL AT BUT NUMBER ONE THE LIFE HAZARD COMES INTO PLAY WERE TRYING TO SAVE LIFE AND THE SECOND THING IS TO WHAT DEGREE IS THE STEEL BEING AFFECTED BY HOW MUCH ITS INCALCULABLE YOU CANT STAND IN THE STREET WITH CALCULATOR AND KNOW THAT WE CAN ONLY GUESS AT THOSE THINGS AGAIN THERES NO HISTORY OF THESE BUILDINGS FALLING DOWN
HEY LISTEN IM NOT BLAMING ANYBODY
KNOW BUT THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT GO ON IN YOUR HEAD
AFTER THE FACT SURE
YOU JUST CANT HELP IT JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED THATS THE SAME THING THAT YOU WERE SAYING THE FAMILIES OF THE VICTIMS THEY WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED THATS ALL THEY WANT TO KNOW WHERE THEIR SON OR FATHER WAS WHEN THIS HAPPENED YOU KNOW WHY DIDNT HE GET OUT THEY WANT TO HEAR THINGS LIKE MAYBE HE WAS TRYING TO HELP SOMEONE THAT WOULD GO LONG WAY TOWARDS THEM LIVING THE REST OF THEIR LIVES
SURE
YOURSELF GOD WISH WE JUST HAD THAT KNOWLEDGE BUT DONT KNOW HOW THEY COULD CALCULATE
SMITH

SMITH
ITS IMPORTANT TO US TOO WOULD LOVE TO
KNOW THAT ENGINE 33 HEAR FROM SOMEBODY OH THEY WERE HELPING SOMEBODY ON THE 3RD FLOOR AND THATS WHY THEY DIDNT GET OUT BECAUSE KNOW THEY KNEW AS WELL AS DID THAT WE HAD TO GET OUT OF THAT BUILDING
SURE
BUT THEY DIDNT MAKE IT DID THEY NOT SWITCH
OVER QUICK ENOUGH BECAUSE LIKE SAID ALL IT TOOK WAS 45 SECONDS GOES LIKE THAT IT SEEMS LIKE AN
ETERNITY SOMETIMES BUT IN SITUATION LIKE THAT ITS GONE IF YOU WERE 15 SECONDS AWAY FROM THAT BUILDING YOU WERENT LIVING REALLY THE ODDS WERE NOT GOOD WE WERE MINUTE AWAY THANK GOD AND THE DUST AND DEBRIS WERENT GOING TO KILL YOU THINGS WERE PULVERIZED SO MUCH THAT THE WAY THAT BUILDING CAME DOWN UNLESS YOU WERE REALLY CLOSE TO IT YOU WERE GOING TO GET HIT WITH DUST AND DEBRIS WHICH LIKE
SAID WASNT GOING TO KILL YOU IT WAS GOING TO SCARE THE SHIT OUT OF YOU BUT THATS ABOUT IT
THATS WHY THINK THERE WAS JUST SO MUCH
DEATH AS COMPARED TO INJURY BECAUSE LIKE SAID IF YOU WERE TWO BLOCKS AWAY THREE BLOCKS THAT WAS
PROBABLY ENOUGH FOR YOU TO JUST GET HIT WITH THAT SHIT BUT YOU WERE GOING TO LIVE AND YOU REALLY ONLY HAD
33

SMITH
MINOR INJURIES IF YOU WERE TOO CLOSE THEYRE NEVER GOING TO FIND ANY PIECE OF YOU THEN YOU HEAR ABOUT LADDER AND ENGINE 39 BEING IN THE BUILDING WHEN IT COLLAPSED AND YOU JUST FIND THAT UNBELIEVABLE
HOW DID THEY GET OUT KNOW LADDER MADE IT OUT RIGHT THEY WERE THE ONES THAT WERE HELPING THAT WOMAN
LADDER AND ENGINE 39 USED TO WORK IN LADDER 16 50 TALKED TO THOSE GUYS PERSONALLY ABOUT
IT THEY WERE IN THE STAIRWELL SOMEWHERE BETWEEN AND
WHEN IT WENT DOWN IF YOU WERE ON THE FIRST FLOOR
YOU WERE CRUSHED BUT IF YOU JUST HAPPENED TO BE WHERE THEY WERE BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE BEAMS FELL OR FOR
WHATEVER REASON AND THEY WERE ALL RESCUED WITHIN THREE TO FOUR HOURS BUT THEY DIDNT GET OUT ON THEIR OWN
YOU HEAR STORIES OF GUYS WHO GOT OUT OF DEBRIS ON THEIR OWN LIFTED AN BEAM OFF OF THEMSELVES OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE AND OTHER GUYS WHO WERE SAVED BY OTHER GUYS
IN THE VICINITY IM SURE THOSE WERE GUYS THAT WERE PROBABLY BLOCK AWAY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT WHO WERE HIT WITH LARGER PIECES THAN WE WERE
BUT LIKE SAID THE COUNSELING UNIT WAS HERE BEFORE IT WAS GOOD WE GOT LOT OF INFORMATION THAT WE DIDNT HAVE EVERY TIME THEY COME WE GET LITTLE
34

SMITH
MORE KNOWLEDGE TO ME THE LIST THAT YOU HAVE THERE OF THE SURVIVORS IS LIST THAT TO ME IS IMPORTANT TO LOOK
AT FOR THIS JOB MENTAL COUNSELING AS FAR AS REACHING
OUT TO THEM NOBODYS LEVEL OF GRIEF IS HIGHER THAN OURS BESIDES THE FAMILIES OF THE VICTIMS YOU SEE ALL THESE LISTS THAT ARE BEING PUT OUT TO ME FAMILIES OF THE VICTIMS OBVIOUSLY COME FIRST FOREVER AND THEN ITS THE SURVIVORS AND THEN ITS THE GUYS WHO WENT DOWN
INTO THE PILE TOO OFTEN
35


37
SMITH

SMITH
OKAY IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE THAT YOU SAW ON THE WAY OUT OR ON THE WAY IN THAT YOU CAN REMEMBER THAT WE DIDNT TALK ABOUT SO FAR DOES ANYBODY COME TO MIND
THAT YOU SAW IN THE LOBBY OR STAIRCASE YOU MENTIONED 33 ENGINE YOU MENTIONED
YES SOME OF THE COMPANIES REMEMBER SEEING WERE ENGINE KNOW ONE OF THE GUYS WAS GETTING
OXYGEN ON ONE OF THE FLOORS ON THE WAY UP WHO DID SEE LADDER
ALSO ON THE WAY UP THATS WHERE YOU SAW HIM IN THE STAIR ON THE WAY UP
YES BASICALLY DIDNT SEE LOT OF GUYS AND ILL TELL YOU WHY BECAUSE THE GUYS WHO WERE NEAR
ME WERE MY COMPANY AND THEN SOME OF THE GUYS JUST MENTIONED AND YOURE WORKING YOUR WAY UP AND YOURE
JUST IN THAT LINE OF FIREFIGHTERS SO THERE COULD BE GUY FLIGHT AHEAD OF YOU THAT YOU DIDNT SEE ON THE
WAY UP ONLY STOPPED AT COUPLE OF FLOORS BRIEFLY SO LIKE SAID IF YOU DIDNT KNOW THE GUY PERSONALLY
YOU REALLY
DIDNT REMEMBER HIM
WHEN GOT TO THE 31ST FLOOR THATS WHEN
STARTED SEEING GUYS
WAS IN THE VICINITY WHO DIDNT KNOW
SAW LADDER THEN ENGINE KNOW ENGINE 33 SAW THE CHIEF
AFTER THE BUILDING SHOOK THE
38

SMITH
LIGHTS WENT OUT SO ON THE WAY DOWN YOU COULDNT SEE ANYTHING UNLESS YOU SHINED YOUR LIGHT IN THEIR FACE
SO IT WAS DIFFICULT IT SEEMS LIKE AN ETERNITY THAT WE WERE IN THERE BUT BASICALLY WE GOT IN THERE AT FIVE AFTER 00 AND WE WERE OUT OF THERE AT 1030 BUT YOU DIDNT INTERACT WITH LOT OF FIREFIGHTERS BECAUSE
WERE ALL SPREAD OUT THROUGH 60 FLOORS ITS JUST MATTER OF WHEN YOU WERE ASSIGNED TO WHERE YOU WERE
ASSIGNED AND SINCE WE WERE ASSIGNED TO GO UP THE
STAIRWELL YOU COULD
TIME BASICALLY SO
OF GUYS ON THE WAY
JUST CROSSING OVER AT 11 THATS PRETTY MUCH IT GUESS
ONLY SEE FIVE FIREFIGHTERS AT
WE DIDNT REALLY COME ACROSS LOT DOWN DIDNT STOP AT ANY FLOORS
CHIEF MALKIN THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW THE TIME IS NOW 1612 HOURS AND THANK THE LIEUTENANT
FOR PROVIDING US WITH THIS INFORMATION
39
File No. 9110224
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER FRANK CAMPAGNA
   Interview Date:  December 4, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
F. CAMPAGNA 2
          CHIEF MALKIN:  Today is December 4th,
     2001.  The time is 1431 hours.  This is
     Battalion Chief Malkin of the Safety
     Battalion.  I'm conducting an interview with
     Fireman Frank Campagna of Ladder 11, and
     we're in the quarters of 28 Engine at this
     time.  This is the fireman's statement.
     Q.   Where did you respond from?
     A.   I responded from quarters, came up the
FDR, showed up to the scene.  The fire was
blazing out.  The first plane had hit.  We pulled
up in front, and we headed inside toward the
lobby.  On the way inside you saw the usual stuff
like everyone else saw, things falling and stuff
like that.
          We got inside the lobby and we waited
to hear from a chief or whoever what's going to
go on, wait until we found out what's going on.
What wound up happening is they teamed us up with
4 Engine, I believe it was.  What it was is they
combined us as one hose team pretty much.  So
they dropped half of their rollups and we kept
half of ours, we kept one standpipe kit, and we
headed up together.
F. CAMPAGNA 3
          As we were going up, they said on the
lower level the second plane hit the other
building.  Me personally, I felt it on another
level up, so I think the timing was off between
everybody.
          We just kept walking up.  As far as we
knew, there were no planes or anything coming in.
There wasn't even a plane that hit that building.
We just knew there was a fire up there.  Any
other explosions that we felt from inside were
maybe extra machinery or something like that.
Those were the words that we were getting.
          So we just kept going up the stairwell.
We got up to about the 17th floor, and we felt
another pretty big explosion.  At this time about
every two floors, every three floors you'd stop
into an office, get some water, take a breather.
Guys were pretty winded.  They had equipment on
and carrying everything.
          We're taking a breather, and I believe
that's when the other Trade Center went down and
everybody felt it and they didn't know exactly
what it was.  Everyone headed towards the
stairwell, thinking it was a safer place to be.
F. CAMPAGNA 4
          After that happened, the building was
still standing, everybody kept going up.  So we
kept going up, still stopping about every two,
three floors.  People still coming down.  We were
just telling them to keep calm and walk on the
way down.
          We got up to about the 28th, 30th
floor, and we were taking another break.  There
was an office or we had a whole floor full of
people.  A chief came down from a floor above
with another company and said everybody evacuate,
everybody out now.  We had to switch staircases.
I believe the staircase we were in, there was no
way down it anymore on the lower level.  There
was word that it had been taken out; we don't
know what from.
          So we switched to a different
staircase.  We headed down.  We let the civilians
go first.  We showed them towards that staircase
and started heading down, letting the civilians
go first, and we walked our way down.  We were up
there with a couple of companies.  I don't know
the exact numbers.  I know 4 Engine was with us.
Everybody went down with us.
F. CAMPAGNA 5
          We got down to the lobby, and there's a
lot of guys down there in the lobby itself along
with 4 Engine.  Everyone is standing there,
waiting to hear what's going to happen next,
what's going on.  Guys were just saying it's time
to go, this isn't safe to stay in here.
          So I believe we headed out along the
wall of the Trade, and I believe 18 followed us
out.  That was it.  It came down on top of us.
That's all I remember of who followed us out or I
heard who followed us out.  4 Engine obviously
didn't make it out.  They were with us the whole
time, so I'm assuming they were still in the
lobby at that time.
          That's pretty much it from that point
on.
     Q.   What did you see when you left tower
one?  Tower two had already collapsed.
     A.   I didn't see it.  Tower two we didn't
even know went down.  I had no clue it went down.
When we were up on the 30th floor, guys were
banging out the windows, saying, "Holy shit, this
looks like a war zone."
          Guys were saying stay away from the
F. CAMPAGNA 6
windows, something might come in, something might
fall down and come in through the window.  So I
never got to see it.  What they were talking
about was the other Trade Center when it had gone
down.  The whole scene outside looked terrible.
          On our way out when we left first World
Trade, all we saw was -- it was like tunnel
vision.  All you saw was what was right in front
of you.  Things were still falling as we were
heading out.  The streets were all dusty.  I was
not really realizing that the other Trade Center
had collapsed, because it was towards our left, I
believe, which we were running towards the right.
We were standing along the line, and it's just
what's in front of me.
          I wasn't really looking around to take
a look.  There's still stuff falling on top of
us.  So I still didn't know it went down.  I
actually didn't know until the other one fell
down and I heard that the other one was gone
while we were in there.
     Q.   Question:  When you exited the World
Trade Center, the north tower, you were going
where?  North on West Street?  Which way were you
F. CAMPAGNA 7
exiting the area?  Running away from the
buildings, which street were you on and which way
were you going?
     A.   We were on West Side Highway and we
were headed up towards --
Q. North?
     A.   Yeah, north, toward Vesey.  We were
right there.  Our rig was parked on Vesey, so we
headed up that way.  We were right under the
walkway just about, and that's when it started
coming, about there.
     Q.   Did you see the command post?  Did you
see Chief Ganci?  Do you know Chief Ganci?
A. No.
     Q.   Did you see the command post with the
command board?
     A.   I saw the command post.  Actually I
don't know -- I just remember seeing like there
was a bunch of people over there past the walkway
towards the water.  There was just a crowd of
people.  I didn't know -- in that intersection
there, that's all I was looking at was in that
intersection there.
          There was nobody in the intersection,
F. CAMPAGNA 8
nobody in the streets in general, everyone just
saying come on, keeping coming, keep coming.
That's when it went.  I looked back.  You see
three explosions and then the whole thing coming
down.  I turned my head and everybody was
scattering.  From there I don't know who was who.
I don't even know where my guys went.  None of us
knew where each other were at at that point in
time.
     Q.   So you just kept running as it was
collapsing?
     A.   Yeah, pretty much, yeah.  Each and
every person, pretty much.
     Q.   Then what happened?  How did you
regroup?  Where did you go after that?  Did you
form up again or meet your guys again?  What did
you do after that?
     A.   After everything happened, we got
engulfed by the whole cloud of smoke and
everything, and guys were sharing masks inside
that whole thing and trying to find our way out.
We couldn't see anything inside there.  I was
right up on a cop van.  My face was right against
a headlight, and I could barely see that, because
F. CAMPAGNA 9
the lights were on on it.
          Once we got out of there, I heard Mike
Kehoe yelling, "28, 28."  I found him, and from
there we went looking around and we found Roy.
He was up getting IV up somewhere.  Then we
finally found our lieutenant and Jimmy Ippolito
who both of them I guess had ran towards the
water towards where all the guys were at the
command post area.  I guess they ran towards that
way.  We ran down the West Side Highway.
          The other guy we didn't really know
where he was was our chauffeur.  He was still out
by the truck, I guess, when everything was going
on.  I guess when the second plane hit, from what
I understand, he got blown back a couple feet and
he got helped out and he got taken to a hospital.
So he's all right.  That was the only one at that
point that we didn't know.
          Then we finally all regrouped and
whatnot and found each other.  Around that time
guys were coming in bus loads before we know it,
coming in to help search.
     Q.   Where did you park your rig?  Where was
28 parked?
                  F. CAMPAGNA                  10
     A.   He dropped us off right in front, right
in front of the tower we went in, which is --
     Q.   The north tower?
     A.   The north tower, the second one that
went down.  He dropped us off right in front of
there, and from what I understand he parked it
right on Vesey Street.  That's where we got off.
It was right in front.
     Q.   What floor did you reach when you were
climbing up?  You said you were like on the 20th
floor and then you decided to come down?
     A.   28th or 30th floor, the 30th, around
there, because we were going like every two
floors.  So it was around there.  I remember
seeing 28 on the wall, and then I think we went
up again.  I think it was around the 30th floor,
we made it up there.  From there that's when we
went down.
          Then a chief came down and pretty much
said everybody evacuate, because nothing was
coming over the radios, as far as everybody was
still waiting.  We were waiting with a bunch of
guys at that point in time.
          I saw one of the guys I knew from the
                  F. CAMPAGNA                  11
academy.  He was in 4 Engine.  Another one I knew
from academy, he was from 10-10.  They were up
there with us also.  I don't know if you got
details from someone else, but I'm pretty sure he
was from there.
     Q.   What floor did you say you were on when
you think the south tower fell down?
     A.   I would say about the 17th.
     Q.   You didn't have a radio that day.  Did
you have a handy talky?
A. Me? No.
     Q.   You were with the officer when you were
climbing?
A. Yes.
     Q.   Do you remember what was on the handy
talky when the south tower fell down?  Was there
a lot of screaming?  Do you remember radio
messages or anything like that?
     A.   No, nothing like that.
     Q.   There were a lot of guys in the lobby,
you said, when you came down to the lobby and
hooked up.  You don't remember anybody specific,
companies or personal people, individual people?
     A.   No, like I said, it was real tunnel
                  F. CAMPAGNA                  12
vision.  I just wasn't being pretty much aware of
anything around, who was around me and whatnot.
Like I said, 4 and 18 are the only ones that
stuck out in my head.
          CHIEF MALKIN:  Okay.  I'm thanking the
     firefighter for the interview.  The
     interview is concluded.  It's now 1443
     hours.  This concludes the interview and
     also the chief's aide in the Safety
     Battalion, Michael Bosco, sat in on this
     interview.
File No. 9110225
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
    FIREFIGHTER BERTRAM SPRINGSTEAD
   Interview Date:  December 4, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                 2
          CHIEF MALKIN:  Today is December 4th,
     2001.  The time is now 1626 hours.  I am
     Battalion Chief Malkin of the Safety
     Battalion of the New York City Fire
     Department.  I am conducting an interview
     with fireman first grade Bertram
     Springstead, Ladder Company 9.  We're in the
     quarters of Ladder 9, and this interview is
     regarding the events of September 11th,
     2001.  Also present is fireman Michael Bosco
     of the Safety Battalion.
          Now, Fireman Springstead, I have asked
     him to relate everything that he remembers
     from the incident on September 11th.
     Q.   Okay, go ahead.
     A.   September 11th I remember walking into
the kitchen about 8:30 in the morning, sat down,
coffee, paper.  A little while later, I guess it
was about a quarter to 9, somebody came in and
said they saw the plane coming over quarters and
then they said they saw it hit the Trade Center.
          So we all ran to the corner of
Lafayette and Great Jones, and we could see the
big hole in the building where the plane had hit.
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                 3
So we all went back to quarters, started getting
dressed.  We didn't get the call right away.  32
went on the first ticket.  We were all sitting in
the house watching, bunkering up.  Then it came
on the TV, and we started watching it on TV,
wondering why we didn't get the call yet and
complaining that we didn't get the call.
Q. Sure.
A. Itwasabout5to9,Iguess,ora couple minutes before 9, I guess, I remember saying to the guys, "I wonder if they're holding this ticket until after 9." Sure enough, the ticket came in 090014.
     Q.   Get out of here.
     A.   And I made a copy of the ticket, and I
stuffed it in my pocket, because I was like,
"This is bullshit.  I'm calling the union when I
get back."  We were watching people jump on TV
from the building.  I said how can they be
holding this ticket.  That was what was going
through my mind the first time.
          We get on the rig.  We're going down.
The probie, John Tierney, he was off duty before
we got out.  Something wasn't right that day.  I
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                 4
knew something was wrong, and I turned to him and
said, "John, do me a favor, don't take this run
in.  Just stay here.  You're off duty, you're not
getting paid, just go home, man, just go home."
But who is not going to jump on the rig?  So he
jumped on the rig and he was sitting on a lap.
          We were driving down, sirens the whole
way down.  We get there.  We stepped off the rig,
and I look up and I noticed that both towers were
on fire now.  We didn't realize at the time that
another plane had hit.  We didn't see it and
couldn't hear it while responding.  I just
figured the other tower was on fire from stuff
flying from the other building.  So we really
didn't know there was a second plane.
          We parked on I guess it was the
northeast corner of the Trade Center, which is
right at Vesey and Church, I guess.  Vesey and
Church, Vesey and Church right there.  We stepped
off the rig, and there were plane engine parts
and people yelling and screaming.  We stepped off
and noticed the two towers on fire.
          We started walking down Vesey towards
West Street.  Our assignment was tower one, so we
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                 5
would go into the lobby.  Just as we turned onto
West Street, we were coming towards the entrance
of the Trade Center and we saw a jumper coming
down.  We were like, "Oh, man, look at this."
They were smoldering, on fire, smoking.  So we
were like, "Oh, man."  Just a tremendous thump.
The noise was unbelievable.
          Now we're looking up as we're going in,
and we go into the lobby and there's everybody.
Von Essen's there.  The Mayor's there.
Everybody's at this command post, everyone in
white hats.  We were standing there at the
command post, waiting for our assignment.
          The probie still didn't have a mask.
He had jumped on the rig, so he was on somebody's
lap on the way down there.  So I walked over to
the command post and took one of the aide's mask
and gave it to him and said, "Put this on because
we were going up now."  Ganci took us over to the
stairs and said, "Call us when you get there."
That's all they said.
     Q.   Ganci was with you in the lobby?
     A.   He showed us to the stairs.  Ganci
showed us to the stairs to take.  We started
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                 6
walking up.  I was taking my time, pacing myself,
going nice and slow, taking it easy.  Those guys
were a little quicker than I was, and they kind
of advanced a couple floors beyond me.
          They were up a couple floors ahead of
me -- I don't know how many -- and Don Casey
waited for me I guess it was on like the 13th
floor -- I forget exactly what floor it was on --
so that I wouldn't be alone.  I was taking my
time going up there.  We were taking breaks here
and there.  I forget what floors we took breaks
on.
          There were a lot of maydays with chest
pains on the radios and stuff like that.  I don't
remember who or what floor, but there were a lot
of maydays.  EMS was going all over the place
with maydays with chest pains.
          We got up, and then me and Don were
kind of pacing ourselves.  We pretty much tried
to take a break on every floor that you had
access to, because you didn't have access on
every floor.  So whatever floor you had access,
we would go in, take a quick breather and then
get going again.
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                 7
          I guess it was about the 19th or 20th
floor when I said, "Don I've got to take a
break."  I was really hot.  I said, "Don, I've
got to take this coat off for a second, take a
breather."  They had water, and people had broken
open a Poland Spring machine and there were
bottles of water, so we would take a break.  I
took my stuff off, and I was pouring water all
over.
          5 Engine was there on the floor too.
Derek Brogan from 5 Engine, he was miserable,
miserable:  chest pains, nauseous, on his knees.
He looked terrible.  So we were pouring the water
over him.  Real bad.
          Then Don Casey, who I was with, starts
staying his arm was tingling, he's getting
numbness in his arm, in his left arm.  I was
like, "All right, sit down."  EMS was there.  Two
guys from EMS were there.  One was working on
Derek, and the other guy started working on Casey
with the oxygen and stuff like that.
          I remember somebody said, "You think
you're having a bad day?  Take a look out this
window."  We looked out the Trade Center window,
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                 8
and there was the Vista Hotel, I guess it was
there.  I'm not really sure what building I was
looking at, but I'm pretty sure it was the roof
of the Vista.  There had to be 30, 40 jumpers
sprayed out all over the roof.  I went, "Oh,
Jesus, what the hell is going on here?"
          As I was looking out the window, which
is a total of five seconds, another jumper comes
by, kind of like clipped the edge of the roof and
just vaporized.  The guy just disappeared.  There
was no longer a body, just a big cloud of red.
Q. Wow.
     A.   I was like, "I didn't need to see
that."  A total of five seconds I was looking out
that window, total.
          So I go back, and I was with Don and I
was saying, "Maybe we should take you down, Don.
Maybe we should start working down if you're
getting --"  He said, "No, I'm all right now.
I'm all right."
          The EMS guy was yelling at him.  He
said, "You guys, I've probably seen this a
thousand times.  You might be having a heart
attack."  But Don didn't think so.  He thought
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                 9
his suspender strap was too tight, which turned
out it was, because he was fine.
          There was a time we were like, "Well, I
don't know, Case, maybe we should take you down.
Let's get out of here.  How much farther?  Are
you going to make it?"
          Then 5 Engine was there, the whole 5
Engine was there.  Derek Brogan was miserable.
He was terrible.  He looked terrible.  I was
nervous about him.  He looked really bad.  So I
turned to 5 Engine officer.  They didn't want to
leave him, but they wanted to keep going.  I
said, "Look, Lou, you want me to take down
Derek?"  I said, "I'm going to take Don down.  Do
you want me to take Derek down?  I'm taking two,"
because 5 Engine didn't want to leave another guy
behind.  He said, "Yeah, maybe that's a good
idea, if you're going down."  I had a radio, Don
had a radio, and this way they didn't have to
lose another guy with a radio when it went up.
          So maybe, I don't know, five seconds
later, that's when tower two must have started
coming down.  The building started shaking, a
tremendous rumbling.  Light bulbs were falling
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                10
out.  File cabinets were tipping over.
          We were in that corner of tower one
that's kind of close to tower two where they kind
of like point at each other there.  That's the
corner we were in.  I don't know what the hell
was going on, but whatever it was, it was right
outside the window that we were standing like
five feet from.
          Some guys were diving on the floor.
Some guys were -- I just took off for the other
side.  I said whatever was going on was on that
side.  I said I'm getting to the other side of
the building.  I started running.
          We got to that side of the building.  I
didn't see Casey, but he told me he dove on the
floor first.  Then when he saw me run by, he
said, "That looks like a good idea.  Maybe I'll
go with Bert and get to the other side."  Casey
got him to the stairwell.  He said, "Let's get
the hell out of here."  I said, "Hold on, hold
on, Case.  I don't even know what that was.
Let's regroup here.  First we've got to go back
and get our stuff."
          We had taken our coats off.  We don't
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                11
have any tools.  We don't have our masks.  I
said, "Let's go back, get our stuff."  I said,
"First of all, Brogan is still back there.  We're
responsible for him now."  I said, "Let's go see
if we can find Derek."
          We get back there.  It was dark.  Most
of the light bulbs had fallen off, so you really
couldn't see much.  I guess it was from the dust
cloud outside there was no light coming in.  We
didn't know at the time.  We just thought it was
another plane or something, another explosion or
whatever.  We really didn't know what it was.
          We got our masks and our coats, grabbed
the halogen and started looking for Derek,
couldn't find him, searched all over.  He didn't
have a radio.  We couldn't call him.  Then we got
the word on the radio to get out of the building.
I was like, "Case, I guess he's gone.  There's
nobody on this floor."  We searched the whole
floor.  There's nobody there.
          So we started going down.  We made our
way to the stair.  Then it was just a slow walk
down, as slow a 20 floors as you can walk.  You
took a step, you took another step, took a step.
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                12
You got to each landing, you opened the door,
"Anybody else here?  Let's go.  Everybody out."
You let a couple people in front of you, another
step.
          We just happened to be on the staircase
with an FBI guy.  He had an FBI jacket on.  He
turns around to me and goes, "We've got to get
out of here."  I said, "What are you talking
about?  We're getting out.  Let's go.
Everybody's walking out."  He said, "No, you
don't understand.  There's more planes coming."
I said, "What the hell are you talking about,
more planes?"  He said, "There's two more planes
on the way for these buildings."  "What do you
mean, two more planes?"  I didn't even know there
was more than one plane at this point.  We didn't
know there was a second plane.
          So then we started walking out.  It
didn't matter.  You weren't going anywhere.  It
was slow walking.  We got to about the 5th or 6th
floor.  It was getting a little smoky, dusty,
whatever.  Don started to put his mask on.  I
said, "Don, why don't you save it?"  It wasn't
that bad yet.  I said, "Why don't we get down and
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                13
see if we need it to get out of here before we
waste it up here."  So we just started covering
up, and we made it all the way down.
          We came to the lobby, and the lobby was
a disaster.  It never registered that the other
building had collapsed.  We came outside, and we
walked the same way we came in.  We went back to
the -- you didn't go through the doors.  All the
glass was broken on the ground floor when we came
in the first time, I guess from the elevators
collapsing or I don't know.  All the glass was
gone.
          So we were walking through the plate
glass along the wall.  We slowly walked our way
out towards the sidewalk, making sure that no
jumpers were landing on us.  I don't know what it
was exactly, but I wound up seeing Lieutenant
Smith.  We just happened to bump into him.
          I radioed to him on the way down that
me and Case were in staircase B, I think it was,
and we were on our way down.  He said, "Okay.
See you out front."  I said, "Do we have
everybody?"  I forget what he said.  I don't
know.  Everybody was with me on the stairs.  I
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                14
don't see everybody.
          But there were people -- there were
guys all over the place.  There were firemen
everywhere, wandering around.  So we started
looking around to see if we could see the guys.
I said, "Lou, they've got to be right here.  So
I'm going to go back inside and maybe they're in
the lobby."  He said all right, he's going to
gather everybody up out here when I find our
three guys.  I said, "We'll get together up the
street.  We'll regroup and where are we going."
          I still never realized the building had
collapsed.  In fact, I had my camera in my
pocket, and I was taking pictures on the way out.
Casey is yelling at me, "Let's get the hell out
of here.  What are you doing?"
     Q.   Did the pictures come out?
     A.   Yeah, they came out great.
     Q.   Have you got them here?
     A.   I have the negatives.  Guys keep asking
for copies left and right.
     Q.   I bet.
     A.   In fact, I get about six, seven copies
made up at a time, and guys -- whatever it costs.
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                15
It costs me about $5 to get them made.
          So I started my way back in underneath
that foot bridge right on the corner of Vesey and
Church, the same way we walked in.  There were a
couple rigs there.  There was a guy with a
bullhorn, a chief.  I thought he was a chief.  He
had a white shirt on.  I don't remember if he had
a helmet on.  But he had a bullhorn, a guy with a
bullhorn.
          He was yelling, "Clear the area.  Clear
the area."  I really wasn't listening to him.  I
was kind of walking by.  He stopped me.  He
grabbed me.  He said, "You've got to get out of
here."  I said, "Chief, I'm missing three guys."
He said, "Everybody coming out I'm sending this
way.  They're probably out already.  Go up this
way.  Everybody is going up this way."  I said,
"Look, Chief, they might be right here."  He
said, "Get the -- out of here now."  He had me by
my shoulder and he kind of shoed me away.
          All right.  So now I'm doing the same
thing.  I'm looking around.  There's firemen all
over the place now.  I'm looking at each guy and
I'm going over to guys.  It's not really
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                16
registering.  The street is a disaster.  There's
stuff all over the street.
          I was just by the other side of that
foot bridge, I guess.  You heard somebody, turned
around and looked up, and I saw a big section of
the facade coming down, straight down.  I said,
"Holy shit," and I took off up West Street, north
on West Street, just ran as far as I could, which
wasn't too far before the dust cloud took you out
and stuff was hitting you and banging off your
mask and your helmet and, geez, what the fuck's
going on, you know?
          Then the dust cloud started coming, and
I turned around and the cloud was coming and I
turned my mask on and put it on.  Then it was
just dust and dark for it seemed like forever,
darker than any fire I had ever been in.  There
was nowhere to go.  You could see it swirling
around you.  I actually had to push the face
piece onto my face to keep it out.  It was
forcing its way inside.
          Then it was just wandering in the dark
north on West Street, bumping into cars and
barricades and whatever else I bumped into.  I
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                17
finally started coming out of the dust and
finally started seeing a little light.  I turned
around, and now I'm missing all seven guys, the
other seven guys that were with me.  Now I don't
know where anybody is.
          So I started looking for guys again.
The first guy I saw was the chauffeur, Warnock.
He was miserable.  He didn't have a mask on, so
he must have dropped it and ran.  I don't know
what happened.  He didn't have his mask on, so he
was terrible.  He couldn't see.  He had stuff in
his eyes.  He could barely breathe.
          I just scooped him up by his arm and
dragged him over to an ambulance and was banging
on the back.  They opened up.  I actually had to
scoop stuff out of his mouth, it was so thick
with dust and stuff.  I told him, "Mike, make
yourself throw up.  Get rid of that stuff."
          EMS was trying to hose him down and get
the stuff out of his eyes.  I was holding him
down as they were squirting the stuff into his
eyes to clean his eyes.  They were clearing his
eyes.  It wasn't like dust; it was like rocks
were in his eyes.  It was bad.  He was in a bad
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                18
way.  They laid him down.  EMS was there, so I
said, "Mike, I'll be back."  I said, "Let me go
see if I can find anybody else."
          The next guy that I saw was I think it
was Smith and Casey.  Casey was hurting too.  He
had his mask on the way out, but he said he lost
it  to run.  He said he figured you moved faster.
So he was hurting too.  I dragged him over to
where Mike was.  Lieutenant Smith seemed okay.
He is a pretty fast runner.  I don't even know if
he got caught in the dust, because he's a
jackrabbit.
          That was it.  I didn't see Mike.  Then
the other three guys -- Mike Maguire, I didn't
know where he was.  Casey and Warnock were in the
ambulance.  I kind of asked them not to go.  I
said, "Why don't we stay together, guys.  It's
chaos.  Why don't we stay together.  I don't even
know where they're taking us.  Why don't we just
stay together."
          They weren't that bad; they were
just -- they were okay now they got their eyes
washed out.  They didn't seem that bad.  I said,
"Why don't we stay together.  One of the guys
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                19
said, "No, I just want to get away from this."
They were like, "Okay, go ahead."
          So that was me, Smith and I don't
remember -- there was some probie there in an
orange hat, and he couldn't find his company, he
didn't know where everybody was, he didn't have a
radio.  I said, "Why don't you stay with us and
listen to the radio."  I don't even remember his
name or his company.  He stayed with us the rest
of the day.  He never hooked up with any of the
guys in his company.  I don't even remember what
company he was.  He stayed with us.
          We walked around, and I started calling
the guys on the radio, you know, "9 OV to anybody
at 9 Truck."  It was weird because there was no
radio traffic.  There was nobody on the radio.
It's like I could clear as day call anybody that
was on it.  Nobody was answering.
          Then I started with 33 Engine.  Nobody
was answering.  I just kept wandering around.
Finally Mike Maguire, who had the can, he
answered me.  He told me where he was.  I forget
what street.  West Street and North End walk,
something like that.  So we had to walk a couple
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                20
blocks to get to there.
          We never found him.  I didn't see him
again until nighttime.  I don't know, it was like
10:00 at night the next time I finally saw Mike.
But I knew he was okay, though, so I really
wasn't worried.  I was more worried about the
other three guys.
          I kept wandering around.  Finally
somebody said, "Well, everybody who's been coming
out, they've been sending them to a staging area
north on West Street.  I said, "All right, let's
go up there.  Maybe they're up there."  He said
they were sending everybody north on West Street.
          So we kept walking north.  We never saw
anything.  We hitched a ride to 8 Truck, and then
they said they would taking guys to 20 Truck,
anybody they found were going to 20 Truck.  I
said, "All right, let's go to 20 Truck, see if
the guys are there."
          We still assumed that those three guys
had gotten out.  We had gotten out, so we were
like where the hell are they?  They must have
gotten out.  We went to 20, and they weren't
there.  Then I told Lieutenant Smith, "Lou, I'm
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                21
going to walk back to quarters.  Maybe they'll
try and call quarters."
          I got back to quarters, and they
weren't there.  This was like 4 or 5:00 in the
afternoon now, after we had been wandering down
there for hours.  Nothing.  They never --
     Q.   Where did you last see those guys?
     A.   I saw them in the lobby going up in the
stairs, probably the third floor going up.  They
were taking off.  They were in much better shape
than I was.  They were flying up the stairs.  I'm
like I'm pacing myself.  We've got 90 floors.  I
said I'm not going -- I'd be dead by the 20th
floor if I ran up 20 floors.  It was a nice easy
pace.
          I never saw those guys for the rest of
the day.  I was with Casey.  I bumped into Smith
and Warnock.  When I saw those guys outside, it
was right underneath that foot bridge.  That's
where I saw those guys.  Then I turned around and
went back in the lobby.
          I saw Mike Maguire.  I kind of just
waved to him that, hey, be careful of the
jumpers.
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                22
          We were out there.  He walked out and
met up with those guys.  Then everybody scattered
when it came down.  Guys went off in all
different directions.  Those guys were walking
north on West Street when I went back towards the
building to go back in to get the other three
guys.
          That's the last time -- I never saw
Walz.  I never saw Baptiste.  I never saw
Tierney.  I never saw those guys.  I figured they
had to be in that lobby, though.  I don't know,
they must have made a wrong turn in the lobby or
something or followed the wrong guy.  I don't
know. I didn't really see them, so I don't know
what they did.  I just figured they were in that
lobby and I was going to go get them.
          That was it.  I got back to quarters.
Answering the phone putting the family off then.
That was pretty much it.
     Q.   Those three guys are lost?
     A.   Those three guys are lost.
     Q.   They never came back?
     A.   No.  I thought for most of the night
that we'd find them someplace, whether it was in
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                23
a hospital.  They didn't know where anybody was.
I just assumed they got out.  I just assumed that
those three guys got out.  I miss them.
     Q.   Sure.
     A.   That's basically it.
     Q.   I just want to ask you a couple
questions that I jotted down while you were
talking.
          What position did you have?  Do you
remember?
     A.   OV.
     Q.   You were the OV.  Okay.
          Did you get any sense that the
elevators were running at any time when you got
there or at any time was there any talk about --
     A.   The elevator doors were blown off.
     Q.   Blown off?
     A.   Yeah.  You could see they were a
disaster.
     Q.   Was there evidence of fire or smoke in
that area?  Did you get the sense that fire had
been in that shaft or was in that shaft, the
elevator shaft?
     A.   No, no, I never thought -- I just
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                24
assumed that they must have plummeted from being
cut --
Q. I see.
     A.   The airplane just -- that's probably
why the plate glass was blown off too.  We didn't
walk through the doors; we walked through -- all
the glass in the lobby was out.
     Q.   Even when you got there?
     A.   Yeah.  So we walked through the glass
to get into the building.
     Q.   Wow.  Oh, yeah, I could see that, the
elevators coming down might do that.
          How about the handy talky traffic?  You
were on Channel 1 the whole time?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   You didn't switch over; right?
     A.   No.  There was chaos, and then they
said -- I remember somebody saying tower two
switch to whatever number it was.  I don't know
what they switched to.  But I was in tower one.
     Q.   Handy talky Channel 1 that you were on,
was it chaos the whole time?  There was a time
that you were making some calls to people?
     A.   There were so many maydays going on.
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                25
     Q.   You did hear maydays, but what about
getting through?
     A.   Maydays were left and right for guys
with chest pains.  There was a lot of guys with
chest pains.  After tower two collapsed, we
didn't know it at the time but there was one
radio transmission that came through that said
the 65th floor just collapsed.  But we didn't
know what that was or who gave it.  I heard on
the radio 65th floor just collapsed.  I don't
know who gave it or for what building.  It had to
be our building, because we were on a different
radio channel.  That was it.
     Q.   At any time did you hear any
announcements over like the PA system instructing
people what to do, like the fire wardens making
any announcement?
A. No.
     Q.   Did you get any sense?  Do you have any
recollection?
     A.   No, I don't remember hearing any.
     Q.   No.
     A.   Everybody was calm walking down.  There
was no problems.  We were on the right.  We were
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                26
going up on the right; they were going down on
the right, patting us on the back, handing us
water, "go get them, guys, you're earning your
money today," all sorts of stuff like that.
     Q.   When you came downstairs, you used the
words "the lobby was a disaster."  What did the
lobby look like?
     A.   Just like dusty and --
     Q.   Dusty --
     A.   The lobby was empty.  I was going back
towards the command post.  I figured that's where
everybody was going to be.  The command post was
set up in like that northwest corner of the
building there.  There was no chiefs in the
lobby.  There was nothing there.  I'm like now
where do we go.
          So we just started filtering out
towards the street, because that's where
everybody -- there was kind of like a line on the
stairs.  Thank God we went the right way.  If you
went left, I don't think you were getting out of
there.  If you made the right, that's the way we
went into the stairs, so that's the way I went
out.  That was the way I was walking back to the
                 B. SPRINGSTEAD                27
rig, the same way I went in there.  It was just a
right lucky pick of the two.
     Q.   That's pretty much it?
     A.   Yeah.
          MR. MALKIN:  I want to thank you for
     your statement and cooperating.  The time is
     now 1655 hours, and this concludes the
     interview.
File No. 9110226
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER EDWARD SHEEHEY
   Interview Date:  December 4, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
E. SHEEHEY 2
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today is December 4th,
     2001.  The time is 3:23 p.m.  This is
     Battalion Chief Kenahan from Safety
     Battalion from the New York City Fire
     Department.  I'm conducting an interview
     with Edward Sheehey, fireman first grade of
     Engine 91.  There is no one else present.
     Q.   Okay.  Start your --
     A.   We responded after the second tower was
hit by the aircraft, through voice alarm.  I
guess it took us approximately, on the fifth
alarm, between five and ten minutes to get down
there.
          We got off the rig on West Street and
Vesey, parked the rig.  We noticed numerous
jumpers coming down.  There were firemen across
the street that called us over to the command
post.  We went to the command post.  We were
standing fast at the command post with other
companies, waiting for an assignment.
          We were there approximately maybe ten
minutes before we received an assignment to go
into the south tower subbasement.  We were on our
way in with an engineer, and he told us that if
E. SHEEHEY 3
there was smoke in the building that he wasn't
able to go.  He had no mask, and he didn't have
all the keys to the doors.
          So a battalion chief, which I do not
know who he is, stopped us and told us he was
going to get us more men, and we sent the
chauffeur back to the rig for tools, forcible
entry tools.  Within one or two minutes standing
there waiting for him to come back, the south
tower started to collapse, and we --
     Q.   Where exactly were you when the south
tower collapsed?
     A.   We were proceeding across West Street.
We were probably maybe 25 yards from the command
post.
     Q.   South of the command post?
     A.   Straight across from it, going in
towards the south tower.  We were probably just
at West Street, just at the street.  Then the
south tower -- we heard an explosion, looked up,
and the building started to collapse.
          We dropped all our tools and gear, and
we turned around.  There was a parking garage to
the right of the command post, so we ran down
E. SHEEHEY 4
into the parking garage.  After being in the
garage about five minutes, we got out through a
stairwell in the rear out into a rear courtyard.
          At that time we started looking for
rest of the members of the company.  We found one
other member, Joe Meola.  We then proceeded to
look for the lieutenant and the two other
members.  I guess we made our way around back to
the front after about five or ten minutes looking
for them.  It seemed like five or ten minutes.
We found Tim Hoppey.
          That's when the north tower started to
collapse.  At that time we ran down Vesey Street
towards the water and then north through a
construction site and basically started looking
for the rest of the guys that we were with.
          About an hour and a half later we found
our lieutenant, Lieutenant Casey.  We just stood
fast with him for the rest of the day.  About an
hour after that we found our chauffeur.  We found
out he was in the hospital.
     Q.   Did you hear any emergency
transmissions on the handy talky?  Did you have a
handy talky?
E. SHEEHEY 5
     A.   No, I didn't have a handy talky.
     Q.   Did you hear anything being next to
anybody?
     A.   I heard maydays.  As we were at the
command post, we heard maydays.  I couldn't make
out what they were for.
     Q.   Was this before the collapse or after?
     A.   Before the collapse.  Then after the
collapse I heard -- we looked for someone with a
radio, and we found a captain from another engine
company.  I couldn't tell you what company he was
from.  He was looking for the rest of his men,
and he had a handy talky.  He said if he heard
them calling for us he would let us know.  I
heard a couple of maydays on his handy talky but
couldn't make out who was giving them or where
they were.
     Q.   Anything else you want to add?
     A.   No, nothing I can remember.  That's
what we did pretty much.  That was basically our
whole involvement in the collapse.
     Q.   Okay.  Thanks for your help.
          MR. KENAHAN:  The time now is 3:28, and
     this concludes the interview.
File No. 9110227
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER KEITH FACCILONGA
   Interview Date:  December 4, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
                 K. FACCILONGA                  2
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  5:38 and this is
     Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan of the Safety
     Battalion of the New York City Fire
     Department.  I'm conducting an interview
     with Keith Faccilonga, firefighter first
     grade from Engine 64.
     Q.   Go ahead and tell us what you remember
from September 11th.
     A.   I saw the second plane hit the second
tower on TV.  I tried calling my battalion -- I
tried calling my company -- (inaudible) after the
second plane hit the towers, I got in my car.  I
called the company and then I called my battalion
and I called my division, and there was no
answers.
          I had my firefighting gear at home with
me and started getting the gear together,
figuring I was going to come into work.  After
getting all the gear together, I made the phone
calls again.  Still no answer at all three
places, including 47 Truck, who has their own
department phone.
          I got in the car and drove down.
in  live nx.  I figured I was close enough
                 K. FACCILONGA                  3
to get down there, report in to a chief and do
something.  I drove down on the FDR Drive.  I was
about halfway down -- I couldn't tell you where,
probably in the mid 90s when I saw the first
tower go down.  I saw that from the FDR Drive.
          I had my helmet in the window, and the
police kept waving me through.  I got down there
pretty quick; I would say less than 15 minutes
door to door.  I parked my car.  I pulled --
actually on the FDR Drive right around the
Brooklyn Bridge, there was, I would say,
thousands and thousands of civilians that were
walking up in a panic, up the FDR Drive.
          The smoke at that point was so thick
that I couldn't even see, so I had to back up,
make a U turn on the FDR Drive and get off, I
guess underneath the Brooklyn Bridge.  Somehow I
made my way over to Park Row, took one look,
parked on Fulton Street right next to the
St. Paul cemetary.
Igotoutofmycar. Igotmy firefighting gear on, my bunker gear, helmet and everything, no mask. I walked about half a block down Church Street and made a left. In front of
                 K. FACCILONGA                  4
me was Five World Trade Center with fire showing
out of just about every single window of Five
World Trade.  The building was fully involved,
the whole entire building.
          I made a left on Church Street, and I
continued walking and that's where parts of the
first building were all over Church Street and
all in between Four World Trade and Five World
Trade it was all parts of, I guess Two World
Trade Center was the first one to collapse.
          I made my way to the corner of Liberty
and Trinity, and I found a bunch of firemen that
had come in the same as I did, on their own, on
their day off and were in the same situation.  We
were going through rigs looking for Scott masks.
That was the only thing nobody had and the one
thing that everybody needed.
          220 Engine was parked, it looked like I
think on the corner of Trinity and Liberty, and
the truck was there and he was telling me he lost
his whole company in the first collapse.  So a
bunch of us got together with a lieutenant
from -- I don't even know what company.  I don't
remember his name anymore.  We told him you're in
                 K. FACCILONGA                  5
charge and he was going to lead us in and try to
find the guys that the truck from 220 was telling
us were missing.
          We headed down Liberty Street towards
the quarters of 10 and 10, and we made it just
about that far.  I would say somewhere across
from 10 and 10 right in the plaza.  We were
making our way across the rubble, and it was real
slow going.
          We were crawling across the rubble,
trying to find -- at this point I wasn't sure
which building had collapsed.  I know the area a
little bit.  We were trying to get towards Two
World Trade Center, which was the building that
went down already.  We didn't know that.  So
we're trying to get in there, thinking that's
where the guys are.  We're thinking -- I'm not
sure -- we figured we could find the guys.
          So we're walking over there, we heard a
big roar.  Nobody really knew what the roar was
until the chauffeur from 220 said, "Oh, my God,
not again."  We turned around and started running
directly up Liberty Street away from the Trade
Center, running east on Liberty.  We crossed
                 K. FACCILONGA                  6
Trinity.  On the way a couple of guys bailed out
and went into some of the buildings.  Some guys
hid in Burger King.  Myself, I kept running.  I
tripped a couple of times.  I got pelted and half
buried along the way.
          I got over to the corner of Broadway
and Liberty, and there was a truck company parked
on that corner.  We hid behind the truck, and all
the stuff came flying by.  A couple of guys got
hit by stuff and hurt by stuff.  Even guys that
were hiding behind the rig were getting hurt.  I
noticed some windows were broken.
          At that point I couldn't breathe
anymore.  But there was an officer.  I think he
was from...I would have to say 20 Truck who
shared a mask with me.  I never found out really
who it was, but I think it was a lieutenant from
20.  He shared a mask with me.
          After a good couple of minutes of
pitch-black total darkness, it started to clear
up a little bit and I could almost breathe again
and maybe you could see your hand in front of
your face.  I decided to then go back, because on
my way running away from the building I knew I
                 K. FACCILONGA                  7
left guys behind that I really wasn't sure if
they made it or not.
          I made it back down there toward 10-10
where I lost guys.  The rubble was so deep that
there was no way we were going to dig something
up.  I mean, everybody knows it was real deep
rubble, and we heard banging on the doors of
Burger King.  So we went over to Burger King.
There were a couple guys in there.  They thought
they were buried alive because the dust and dirt
were so thick on the windows.  They couldn't see
anything.  So we pulled the doors open, and there
were maybe, I would say around five, six, seven
guys, maybe, came out of there, and they were
surprised they weren't buried in a couple of feet
worth of dirt.  It was only thick on the windows.
It made them think they were buried alive in
there.
          We all got together again and tried to
make another trip to get in there.  As we entered
the plaza again the second time.  Now, stuff that
had fallen I guess whatever was...there big, hard
pieces of, I don't know, big pieces that had been
standing for weeks.  Pieces were falling off
                 K. FACCILONGA                  8
there and landing and we were kind of worried
about some landing on us.
          We couldn't pass there on Liberty, so
we made our way south.  I'm not sure if we went
up Albany or Carlisle.  I'm not sure what street
it was.  We went around to the west side, and
along the way different guys were trying to do
different things.
          We hooked up with a couple of different
chiefs, a couple of different lieutenants and
captains, and different guys would attach
themselves to those bosses and try to do
something with them.  Because the wind was
blowing from the west, I thought the best bet was
to go to the West Side Highway and try to make an
attack from that side.
          So me and a couple of guys from -- I
don't remember what squad, but one of the squads,
we hooked up together and we found an officer.
We made our way to the West Side Highway, and we
tried to make a push into the rubble.  Actually
while we were doing it, there were some fires
that they were putting out.  I took some hose
line straps.  We helped stretch some hose lines,
                 K. FACCILONGA                  9
helped carry some pieces to the manifolds, some
gates, stuff like that.  We were carrying stuff
along the way.
          What else?  At that point there were
civilians up in one of the buildings.  I couldn't
tell you which building it was at the time.  He
was up in one of the buildings that was damaged
but not knocked down.  He was waving to us.  We
kept saying, "What the hell does that guy want?"
It looked like he wanted to be saved originally,
but then we realized he was pointing and he saw
something that we couldn't see.
          So we started walking.  He was
directing us towards the south pedestrian bridge.
As we got closer to the pedestrian bridge, I saw
something shiny so I called some guys over, and
we started making our way towards where the
pedestrian bridge came to the ground on the east
side of the West Side Highway.
          Right where the pedestrian bridge met
the ground, I noticed a bunker coat.  So I called
everybody over, and we started digging frantic.
Then we realized we found somebody for sure.  We
started finding that it was his whole entire
                 K. FACCILONGA                 10
bunker coat and his hand was still in the bunker
coat.
          We were digging, and there was no
response from whoever was buried.  We got him
buried out as much as we could, but there were
three motorcycles that were pinned on him.  It
looked like a river of debris had come in.  He
had hid under the pedestrian bridge at the point
by the ground where it meets the ground.  He hid
there I guess when the building collapsed.  I'm
not sure which one.  At this point we didn't know
who it was.  Now I do know it was a chauffeur
from 65 Engine, and we didn't know until we got
him out of there, and I'll continue telling you
how we got him out.
          So he hid under the bridge where the
forty-five meets the ground, and he got dirt from
both sides of the bridge.  Stuff just came
running like a river and just buried him.  There
were three motorcycles that had toppled over, and
they were pretty much pinning him to the ground
even after we dug him out.
          So myself and one other guy got as
close as we could to the chauffeur.  We grabbed a
                 K. FACCILONGA                 11
hold of the motorcycles.  He finally came to and
he finally was talking to us.  He told us he was
the chauffeur from 65.  He didn't know how long
he was out.  He was unconscious.  He doesn't
remember anything other than running and hiding
under there and then waking up.  I think he was
out for at least an hour or two by the time we
made our way to him.  It might have been more.
I'm not sure.
          I was the closest one to him and I told
him we were going to try to get him out of there.
We picked up the motorcycles as much as we could,
but it still wasn't enough.  We got some more
guys over.
          There was some fire in the rubble pile
that was getting pretty intense, and the heat was
a lot for us.  So they stretched more line to put
out the fire while we tried to get him out.  We
got a back board in there, and somebody counted
to three.  On the count of three, about three or
four of us picked up the motorcycle as high was
we could.  While another two, three guys pulled
him out of the pile.  He was still pinned.  I
think his leg was pinned in the pile.
                 K. FACCILONGA                 12
          So then I crawled underneath and tried
to find out where he was pinned, his leg was
stuck at.  Probably his bunker gear was stuck
under the motorcycles.  So then we kind of
finagled his legs.  He was really tough.  It was
pinned pretty bad.  The only thing we could think
of was to pull him out.  We got him free of what
he was pinned under.  We got a whole bunch more
guys, maybe about five or six guys, to try and
pick the motorcycles up on the count of three.  I
counted to three this time, and I told the
chauffeur that we were going to pull him out on
three.  He was counting down and he was still
pinned.  I couldn't see where he was pinned.  So
we said we were going to do it and if it was too
much, he was supposed to scream and let us know.
On the count of three we picked up the bikes, and
the guys pulled him out.  They threw him on the
board, and they got him out.
          Let's see.  After that I took a break
for a couple of minutes.  I got some water.  I
went and scavenged some equipment off of some
rigs.  I got a halogen, and I found a Scott pack
off one of the rescue rigs that was parked right
                 K. FACCILONGA                 13
there, very close to the pedestrian bridge where
Liberty meets the West Side Highway.
          I got one of the Scott packs, and I put
that on.  Pretty much for the next couple hours
we were inside the rubble pile, mostly from the
west side.  Since, like I said before, the wind
was blowing towards the east, and it was a lot
clearer coming in from the West Side Highway
going toward Battery Park.
          I concentrated my efforts towards One
World Trade Center and Two World Trade Center.
On and off during the day I hooked up with
numerous firefighters and officers from
lieutenants all the way up to battalion chiefs.
We would hook up with teams and work as much as
we could until somebody needed a blow and then
they'd go take their own break and come back
whenever they were ready and then hook up with
another group or the same group.  It pretty much
went on like that until around 5:00.  Let's see,
it was around 3:00 I decided to take a break, and
I made my way back towards -- I headed towards
the command post set up on Broadway somewhere
near Park Row.  So I was pretty much spent at
                 K. FACCILONGA                 14
that point.
          So I made my way over to Park Row where
there was a command center where there were
companies coming in.  It was City Hall Park where
I guess it was kind of a meeting point where
people were coming in.  I saw people coming in
from "the Rock" I guess they sent their chauffeur
school, that type of thing.  They were all
showing up there.
          Checking in and I saw 47 Truck there,
which is the truck that's in with the engine I'm
assigned to.  So I went over there and I reported
to that officer who was Lieutenant Lowney.  So I
reported to him.  I told him that I was going to
be attached to him for the day.  He's just about
to sign in, I guess, and he was going to give my
name.  So I figured I would stay with them for
the rest of the day.  That was somewhere between
2 or 3:00.
          At that point some fireman and some
police were scavenging stuff from a hardware
store, from a pharmacy for drops.  My eyes were
shot.  I couldn't see anymore.  We were putting
drops in our eyes.  We got some tools.
                 K. FACCILONGA                 15
          We finally got an assignment.  We got
on the rig maybe around 3:00 and drove around to
see what was going on over by Six World Trade and
make our way towards the rubble from that end.
We were doing that for about two hours.  Pretty
much we couldn't get past the rig.  So we carried
as much food as we could.  We made our way to the
pile again.  We were doing searches.  Not much
found.  It was rough going.
          At that point I was having trouble
breathing.  I couldn't even walk 20 or 30 yards
without help.  So they put me in an ambulance,
gave me oxygen and they were talking about
intubating me and they sent me off to
St. Claire's Hospital.  I stayed there pretty
much through the night.
          I got out of the hospital.  That night
I stayed at a friend's house in Manhattan.  I
came back down around 9:00 in the morning to get
my car.  My car was on Fulton Street.  I got my
car and went back up to the Bronx.  I was
supposed to be working that day and pretty much
the rest was all responding with 64 Engine after
that.  You know after the first day.
                 K. FACCILONGA                 16
          So I guess pretty much that's my story.
That's about it.
     Q.   Okay.  Thanks a lot.
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time now is 6:05
     p.m.   This concludes this interview.
File No. 9110228
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER DAVID MORIARTY
   Interview Date:  December 4, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
D. MORIARTY 2
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today is December 4th,
     2001.  The time is 5:17 p.m., and this is
     Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan of the Safety
     Battalion of the Fire Department of the City
     of New York.  I'm conducting an interview
     with David Moriarty, firefighter first grade
     from Engine 64.
     Q.   Please tell us the events of September
11th as you remember them.
     A.   On the morning of September 11th, I was
working a mutual with Kevin Hansen.  I was
working a day tour here at 64 Engine.  I was just
finishing up getting shaved when we received from
the news that a plane had struck the World Trade
Center.  I was looking at the television when we
actually saw the second plane strike the World
Trade Center while we were still in quarters.
          Sometime after that we received a
ticket to respond as an additional unit on a
fifth alarm to the quarters of 35 Engine in
Harlem, and we got on the rig and headed down to
Harlem.  While we were on the Bruckner Expressway
heading down, you could see smoke rising from the
area of southern Manhattan in the vicinity of the
D. MORIARTY 3
World Trade Center.
          We got down to Harlem, and Lieutenant
Brendan Whelan was working in 35 that day.  He
got promoted out of Ladder 47 here.  They were in
the process of gathering extra tools and stuff
for their apparatus, and he had us stage our
apparatus around the corner facing I guess east.
          We were there for a short period of
time, and other companies came in.  I believe 94
Engine responded in, maybe 50 Engine was there
and a couple of additional engines.  I don't
remember exactly who.
          We were in quarters, like I said, not
that long and the voice alarm went off, and the
person on the voice alarm asked Brendan to read
out a roll call of all of the units which were
currently at quarters there.  Brendan did that,
and he had to repeat it a couple of times.  You
could tell the guy on the voice alarm was
probably writing it down.
          Shortly after Brendan read it out to
him, he said -- the guy on the voice alarm, the
dispatcher, said respond forthwith to West and
Vesey Street to the staging area.
D. MORIARTY 4
          So we got on the apparatus, and somehow
we wound up pretty much like in the lead heading
south through Manhattan.  In the area of 81st and
Central Park West -- I don't know if it was the
traffic conditions or what, but we were kind of
delayed right there.
          I told the chauffeur that I knew of an
entrance to the West Side Highway at 79th.  So
what we had to do was we went one block west to
Columbus, went south to 79th, made a right all
the way across and got on the drive there at 79th
and West Side Highway and proceeded south.
          It was while we were in transit there
that the radio traffic picked up on the citywide,
and somebody put over that there was a collapse
at the World Trade Center.  The thing was, they
never went into the extent of the collapse.  We
didn't realize that the entire south tower had
collapsed while we were en route.
          That transmission was somewhat garbled,
and immediately after that we heard a member over
the citywide frequency screaming a mayday.  You
could tell by his voice that he was pretty bad.
He was in bad shape.  He said he was trapped by
D. MORIARTY 5
debris, he was finding it difficult to breathe
and "Somebody come and get me."  The dispatcher
got right back on and tried to calm him down and
assure him that they had units moving towards his
location.
          Then pretty soon after that we arrived
on West Street north of West and Vesey, several
blocks north of the walk bridge that's at a
college there or something.  That's where our
chauffeur found parking.
          We got off the rig and we grabbed our
rollups.  We started walking south on West.
Vinnie Massa, who had the control position, told
us hold on a second.  He wanted to just remove
the basic items he'd need for a standpipe
operation from the standpipe kit so he wouldn't
be lugging the entire kit with him.
          At this time there was units all over
the place on West, guys walking south and throngs
of civilians walking north.  I mean, hundreds and
hundreds of people were walking north on West.
          Then we started sizing it up as we were
walking.  It was pretty bad.  I mean, the north
tower was burning pretty good.  It was ripping on
D. MORIARTY 6
the upper floors.  There was all sorts of debris
in the air.  We could see there was a dust in the
air that we didn't really understand what it was.
We thought it was smoke and whatnot.  People were
still streaming north as we were headed south.
          I started watching the debris, trying
to see the other tower.  The debris that was in
the air and stuff, I was watching that, trying to
see around the north tower to see the south
tower, how bad did it look.
          As I was looking through the debris was
when I first started seeing people jumping out of
the north tower.  I had thought at first -- I was
walking alongside my probie, Billy Horel, and we
were both kind of looking up at the debris.  It
was like, "Did you see that?"  He said, "Yeah."
I said, "Those are people jumping out of the
building."  There were enough of them that jumped
while we were walking.
          As we got closer, you could see debris,
but there was a throng of firefighters and people
still between us and Vesey.  That's when I
started noticing equipment on the roadway and
masks and shit like that.
D. MORIARTY 7
          I had been looking up again, and
suddenly somebody to the front of us -- I don't
know if it was a civilian or firefighter or cop
or what -- said, "She's coming down."  We were
within a half a block of the north tower.
          It was my intention -- I was probably
the senior guy on the back step that day -- that
we report in to some command center down there.
Our officer would report in and we would probably
be going into the north tower or somewhere with
an assignment for a high rise job.
          But that shout went up, and the crowd
in front of us suddenly surged towards us.
Everybody turned and started coming back north.
I looked up, and it appeared as if the north
tower -- it almost appeared to be liquefied.  The
very top of it began to cascade out and down,
almost in a rolling motion.
          As I watched it, the street started to
fill with this tremendous sound of just noise.
It reminded me of a jet aircraft engine when a
jet takes off.  It was that loud.  The debris
started coming out onto West and down.
          We turned.  I yelled something, maybe
D. MORIARTY 8
"Come on 64," or something.  I grabbed my probie
by his harness, and I took one last look.  I
could see now that the dust cloud was coming up
at us pretty fast.  We turned around and we
started heading back north.  We weren't running
at a flat-out run, but we were walking very
briskly.
          I took a look over my shoulder.  I
realized we weren't going to outrun this thing.
Still holding onto Billy, I said, "Come here."
There was an EMS ambulance parked facing north in
the southbound lanes.  I said, "We've got to get
down here."  I got down in front of the bumper
with Billy.  I told him, "Mask up, mask up."
          I looked, and I didn't know what was in
this debris.  I said to myself if there's any
heavy stuff in this debris, we might not be in
the best of spots, but at least we had some
cover.  Before I could get my mouthpiece, my face
mask on, it was that quick.  That cloud of stuff
was up, on us, and over us.
          I didn't know exactly where the other
members of the company were, but I knew Billy was
with me.  He got his mask on.  I cleaned mine out
D. MORIARTY 9
a little bit.  It was very difficult to breathe.
Everything became kind of encapsulated.  You
couldn't hear people yelling.  Things weren't as
loud as they would normally be on the street
because of this dust that was all around us.
          What happened then was the EMS
ambulance was running.  It was on.  The engine
was on.  It started whining terribly bad.  I
realized it was sucking all the dust.  I thought
maybe we're going to have a car fire here.  I
told Billy, "Billy, we're going to stand up and
walk north together out of this thing."
Basically that's what we did.
          There were other people.  We did bump
into people that were standing.  We didn't
encounter anybody laid out or anything like that
along our path north until we got out of that
cloud.
          When we got out of that cloud, we
regrouped.  It was a matter of minutes before all
of the members were accounted for, we had
everybody, and we turned around and headed back
south now.
          It was at that point as we closed in on
                  D. MORIARTY                  10
where the north tower had been that I really
realized the extent of what had happened.  There
was a tremendous amount of equipment strewn
across West Street, I mean partner saws and
masks.  I saw a case for a heat-seeking camera.
I was clued in on that.
          We passed a side street, and there was
an engine.  I think it was 16; I'm not sure.  It
was hooked up to a hydrant.  There was debris
burning around it, and it was a matter of I did a
quick check, a cursory check, for the chauffeur
to see if he could possibly be in among this
stuff here.
          It was on a side street away from like
the heavy debris.  There was all this stuff, and
there were small pockets of fire burning around
the apparatus.  It was like is he around?  We
looked under the rig.  We checked the interior of
the rig.  There was nobody by that rig, so we
moved on.  We moved south back towards the Trade
Center.
          We got to the corner of West and Vesey,
and it was just very chaotic at that point.
There was a lot of firemen there, guys looking
                  D. MORIARTY                  11
for stuff to do, doing cursory examinations of
the pile and stuff.
          Shortly -- I don't know how long.  You
know, time kind of speeded up and slowed down
depending on where you were.  What we wound up
doing is we assisted members of 54 Engine.  They
had been ordered to draft water from a marine
unit in the river.
          We assisted them in positioning the
rig.  We got a manifold, and we had I think four
or six lines.  Like they were eventually hooked
up to this manifold in the area of West and
Vesey.  Those lines were operating.  We didn't
operate off of it, but other companies had them
charged.
          There were guys that had put up
portable ladders towards part of the World Trade
Center there and were getting up onto I guess it
was a mezzanine level and doing a search there
real quick.
          But the command at that point wasn't
really organized at first.  Then I remember
seeing like a few different chiefs at the corner
throughout the day.  They became very concerned
                  D. MORIARTY                  12
about the condition of number Seven World Trade
and where we were in vicinity to that.  They kept
announcing the collapse and who's moving, and we
got pushed further and further west.
          We took a blow in the vicinity of the
American Express building.  I heard that a police
officer, the body of a police officer, had been
recovered right where we were standing when we
first got there to the corner.  Guys were just
making small examinations of the pile that was
around us.  But they weren't really getting guys
get too deep into it because of the possible
pending collapse of Seven World Trade.
          We were staged there a good part of the
afternoon until seven finally did collapse.  It
was shortly after the collapse of seven that --
Chief Fellini, I guess was the commander at West
and Vesey.  I know Chief Salka was at West and
Vesey and there was another chief with them.
          They wanted to get a primary of the
Verizon building.  They were asking for three
engines and three trucks.  That's all they wanted
to commit to the buildings to do a cursory
examination for possible victims and stability
                  D. MORIARTY                  13
and building damage.  64 Engine was chosen to do
part of that search.
          We wound up entering the building.
Three engines, three trucks teamed up, one
engine, one truck, per ten floors.  It was 6 or 9
Truck that we wound up with, and we did floors 10
through 20.  We did have structural damage to the
building, especially to the east side, and small
pockets of fire set back there, but no victims
within the building.
          We came out, and we took a blow on West
Street, reported back to the command center.
Basically we were told that it was time for us to
leave.  We wanted to stay.  The chief that was on
duty then, he asked us what tour we were working
and so on.  We told him we were there from the
day tour.  The chief said, "I've got a thousand
guys here to help.  It's time for you to guys to
take up and go home," which we eventually did.
That's it.
     Q.   Very good.  Thanks for your help.
     A.   Okay.
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  This concludes the
     interview.
File No. 9110229
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER TIMOTHY HOPPEY
   Interview Date:  December 4, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
T. HOPPEY 2
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  It's December 4th,
     2001.  The time is 3:39 p.m.   This is
     Battalion Chief Kenahan from the Safety
     Battalion  of the New York City Fire
     Department.  I'm conducting an interview
     with Timothy Hoppey, firefighter first
     grade, assigned to Engine 91.  We're at the
     quarters of Engine 91 conducting this
     interview.
     Q.   Go ahead with any --
     A.   We cut through Central Park to get down
there.  Then we got over to the West Side
Highway.  The cops pretty much had it all cleared
out for us, so we cruised right down to pretty
near the World Trade Center.  I believe we parked
on West Street.
          We got off the rig.  It was myself, Ed
Sheehy and Maureen Schulman on the back step.  We
took our rollups and started walking down West
Street toward the command center that we were to
report to, walked about 50 yards or so, and
Maureen was actually carrying the standpipe kit
and rollups.  I went back and grabbed the
standpipe kit from her to speed things up a bit.
T. HOPPEY 3
          We got down to the command post.  As
soon as we arrived at the command post, I noticed
the jumpers were coming down there.  I believe
there were a lot more landing on top of the
hotel, but some were hitting out in the street.
          There were quite a few firefighters
already assembled there.  The chief of the
command center told us to step back off of West
Street so that we wouldn't actually see the
impact of the jumpers.  There was a parking
garage there with a ramp.  So by going down the
ramp a little bit, you still saw and heard the
jumpers, but you didn't actually see them hitting
on the street.  So that's pretty much where
everyone was.
          We took our masks off and dropped the
rollups and stuff because we were assuming that
we might be there a while waiting for our
assignment and seeing how most of the other
companies had done that also.
          As far as the companies assembled
there, I really only saw 34 Engine.  I don't
know.  A lot of guys had their helmets off too
and their gear stacked in specific areas.
T. HOPPEY 4
          While we were there, I went back into
the parking garage, and one of the guys in the
glass booth back there, I asked him where a
faucet was.  So came out and turned on a faucet
for us so we had some water.
          We were just hanging out there, waiting
to be called, and eventually Lieutenant James
Casey came back, told us to get our gear on, that
we were going to head in.
          So we went up to West Street.  We were
right by the command center at that point.  We
were kind of on the curb to cross West Street.
Actually we were told we were going to go to the
six sublevel.  I'm not sure of what tower.
          We were going to go in with an engineer
who -- I guess they were having standpipe
problems up there.  We were going to isolate a
standpipe or something.  Not that we knew how to
do it, but this engineer was going to tell us
what valves to turn or whatever.  As I said, I'm
not even sure what tower we were supposed to go
into.
          We walked out into West Street maybe
ten yards or so, and the chief called us back.
T. HOPPEY 5
I'm not sure what chief this was.  I know Peter
Ganci was at this command center, but I'm not
sure what chief this actually was.
          The chief wanted to get a truck company
to go in with us.  He was figuring we would
probably have to force doors getting down to
these sublevels.  At that point Lieutenant Casey
had sent our chauffeur, Steve Connor, and Brian
Russo, who actually had just gotten off the night
tour but had ridden down with the rack unit, I
believe.  He sent them back to 91's rig to get
forcible entry tools, rabbit tools or something
like that.
          In the interim while we were standing
there on the curb at West Street, probably three
minutes or so after he had told us to go in,
that's when we heard the rumble.  I looked up,
and it was just a black cloud directly overhead.
          At that point I was thinking it was a
secondary explosion.  It looked to me like it was
much lower than where the planes had gone in.
That was probably just a delay in looking up.
          I turned around and looked to see what
everyone else was doing, and everyone was running
T. HOPPEY 6
right down that ramp into the parking garage.  So
I just dropped the rollup and standpipe kit right
there and took off running and made it into the
parking garage.
          As I was running down the ramp, there
was a pillar on the left.  I jumped behind it.  I
was going to throw my mask on, because I was
assuming at the time that -- thinking that the
World Trade Center -- I thought the top half of
the building was falling off, and I was thinking
of it falling outward, not really imploding upon
itself like it did.  So if it was falling our
way, we might get buried alive or trapped down in
that parking garage.
          I was going to throw my mask on, but as
soon as I jumped behind the pillar, there was
just a black cloud rolling probably five or ten
yards away from me, so I just kept running.  I
didn't know if it was the building or if it was
just debris.  I had no idea what was in the
cloud.
          By the time I got to the rear of the
parking garage -- it stayed pretty clear back
there.  It wasn't too bad.  There was a stairway
T. HOPPEY 7
up.  There were a ton of guys on the stairwell.
I know there was a delay in getting out the door.
Whether they got the key or forced the door, I'm
not really sure.  I stayed down at the bottom
there.  I had my flashlight on directing people
in there.
          Once the door was forced or opened or
whatever they did, everyone headed up and out the
back of the parking garage.  I went up there.  We
moved either a bicycle rack or some type of
barrier to hold the door open up top.
          While I was standing there, some
captain -- I don't know what company -- he saw I
had an orange flashlight on my jacket and he
said, "Let me have that flashlight.  I'm going to
go down and search the parking garage."  So I
said, "All right."  So I gave him the flashlight.
I said, "I'm going to go down with you."
          So we put on our masks and went down
into the parking garage.  He set up a search
rope.  The visibility was actually fairly good
down there.  You could see all the shapes of
people.  It seemed like everyone who had gotten
in the parking garage was fine.
T. HOPPEY 8
          I walked back out to where the ramp met
the air, but you really couldn't see too much at
that point.  You wouldn't see anyone walking
around out there.  I didn't really see much of
anything out there at that point.
          I went back out through the garage,
back out into like a little park behind the
garage.  Walking around there, I met up with two
guys from my company, Ed Sheehy and Joe Meola,
who also had been relieved that morning but had
come down.
          We just started looking for our
lieutenant and the rest of our company at that
point.  We walked through the park I believe to
Vesey Street, and we were going to loop around to
come back down into the Trade Center to see if
our lieutenant and other members were down there.
          I would assume we were on Vesey Street
or West Street.  I'm not even exactly sure.  But
a cop started screaming, "The north tower is
leaning."  We again started running.  That came
down a couple minutes after that.  As I said, I
think we were on Vesey Street at that point, but
I'm not really sure.
T. HOPPEY 9
          After that it was kind of pandemonium.
The U.S. marshals were saying a third plane was
coming in.  They said there were bombs in all the
buildings around there.  No one really knew where
to assemble.  Every time you tried to set up a
spot, you were being told to keep moving further
north.  Eventually we ended up by Stuyvesant High
School.  That was pretty much it.
     Q.   Do you have anything else?
     A.   No, I don't.
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  It's now 3:48.  This
     interview is concluded.  Thank you.
File No. 9110230
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         FATHER JOHN DELENDICK
   Interview Date:  December 6, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
                  J. DELENDICK                  2
          MR. TAMBASCO:  Today is December 6th.
     My name is Mike Tambasco with the World
     Trade Center Task Force.  We're on the
     fourth floor of Nine Metrotech in the
     conference room, conducting an interview
     with Father John Delendick into the events
     of September 11th.
          The time now is 1431 hours.
     Q.   Father, if you would just be good
enough to tell us your story from that day.
     A.   I had just finished saying the 8:30
mass  at  St. Michael's in Brooklyn. The pager
went off and said that a plane had crashed into
one of the towers of the Trade Center.  I called
emergency operations center and said I was
responding, and I left for the Trade Center.
          I went through the Battery Tunnel.  I
parked my car as close to the Battery Tunnel as
possible and walked to the Trade Center from
there along West Street.  I stopped for a few
minutes to talk to Jerry Barber, who was
opposite -- I guess we were standing on the
corner of Liberty Street and West.  I believe
that's where I saw him.  I then proceeded down
further.
J. DELENDICK                  3
          He told me that the command post was on
West Street down in front of the Financial
Center.  According to this paper, it's Two World
Financial Center, Merrill Lynch.  They were set
up in front of there with two huge garage doors
which went underneath the Financial Center.
          I spoke to Ganci briefly, told him I
was there.  I saw Bill Feehan, said hello to him.
I stood there for a while talking to Timmy
Stackpole and to Chief Ed Henry, both of whom
left a few minutes later.
          And Henry picked up his tack and said
to me:  "I've got to go to work," and he went
across the street to the Marriott.  Timmy
Stackpole and I continued to talk -- in fact,
people started jumping off the north tower at
that point.  We were watching that.  I said to
Timmy I think we should go back to the office.
          I should mention that behind us a lot
of different companies were staging.  That's
where they were waiting to move in.  I said:
"Timmy, we should go back and remind the officers
to look after their probies because I don't think
                  J. DELENDICK                  4
they're going to be able to handle this.  I
turned around with Timmy, and we both looked and
then looked at each other, because no one was
handling it, the probies or the veterans.
          Timmy at that point took a group of
guys -- I'm not sure who was with him -- and went
across the street as well.  I believe they went
to the Marriott.  Most people going to the south
tower went to the Marriott and went through the
Marriott to get there.
          The top of the building kind of started
to rumble, and we all looked up.  It looked --
     Q.   Let me interrupt you for a second.
Were you there when the second plane hit?
     A.   No.  When the second plane hit, I was
still in Brooklyn.  I was trying to get through
the tunnel on Hamilton Avenue.  We saw the plane,
but I never saw it hit.  I remember saying to
myself, boy, that guy is awful low in the
pattern.  I remember saying something really
stupid like, you know, did he come down to see
what happened with the first one?  It never
dawned on me that he was heading for the other
tower, but that's where it was headed.
                  J. DELENDICK                  5
          We heard a rumbling noise, and it
appeared that that first tower, the south tower,
had exploded, the top of it.  That's what I saw,
what a lot of us saw.  We ran down underneath the
Financial Center.
     Q.   The garages behind you?
     A.   The garages.
          We were followed by that cloud, that
dark black cloud.  It was very difficult to
breathe, very difficult to see.
          I stopped running or I stopped going
down when it leveled off.  There was like a ramp
that went down, and I stopped at the bottom ramp
where it leveled off.  Bill Feehan was next to
me.  Ray Downey was over there too, because they
both started talking -- I knew it was them
because they were talking, so I knew.
          I remember asking Ray Downey was it the
jet fuel that blew up.  He said at that point he
thought there were bombs up there because it was
too even.  As we've since learned, it was the jet
fuel that was dropping down that caused all this.
But he said it was too even.
     Q.   Symmetrical?
                  J. DELENDICK                  6
     A.   So his original thought was that he
thought it was a bomb up there as well.
          We then started walking up, back up.  I
was with Bill Feehan.  I'm not sure where Ray
Downey went.  I understand Pete Ganci found a
stairwell, went up a stairwell and went back to
the lobby, back to the command post where we
were.
          Bill and I stopped a few times on the
ramp going up.  There were some firefighters who
had fallen there.  I don't know who they were.  I
didn't really get to see their faces.  You
couldn't really see much.  You trip over them is
how --
     Q.   You found them.
     A.   We would grab other firefighters to
help them down further.  They had apparently
minor injuries.  They were okay, but they had
fallen or whatever.  We got people to assist them
to go down further into the building.
          I remember saying to Bill at one point
we had to be near the garage doors.  I said we
should be seeing daylight soon.  Little did I
know that we weren't going to see daylight.  I
                  J. DELENDICK                  7
didn't even think.  He said yeah, you're right.
          Next thing we knew, we were outside.
There was kind of -- I don't know what to call
it, like an island between two garages on the
driveway outside that had flowers in it.  We were
right next to it, so we knew we were outside,
couldn't realize.  Couldn't see anything.
          We didn't know the building came down.
We just knew the top of the building exploded and
didn't know what happened to the rest of the
building.  You just couldn't see anything.
Things began to lift a little bit.
          Just to take a step back, when I got
out, we discovered we were outside, somebody said
to me there's somebody hurt down on West Street.
And I started walking south on West Street.
That's when I began to notice fire trucks that
were damaged and ambulances on the side and cars
destroyed.
          I stopped and said where am I going?
Where am I looking for this guy who is injured?
I have no idea where I'm going.  I turned and
went back to --
     Q.   Where the command post was?
                  J. DELENDICK                  8
     A.   -- where the command post was.
          Ganci was there at this point, and I
stood there a few minutes.  Pete started yelling,
saying to everyone that we should start moving
north and we're going to re-form the command post
up on West and Chambers Street.
          A whole group of us started moving
north again.  I'm not sure who I was with.  We
just started moving north.  When we got to the
corner of West and Vesey, we heard that kind of
same rumbling noise.  And someone just yelled
run, and we all started running.  Some people ran
north.  I ran with a whole bunch of people going
towards the river.
     Q.   West?
     A.   On Vesey Street, west.
          I remember a cop running along next to
me.  I remember this.  This is great.  We were
running along, and a cop is running next to me.
He says:  "Father, can I go to confession?"  I
looked and said:  "This is an act of war, isn't
it?"  He said:  "Yeah, I believe so."  I said:
"Then I'm giving general absolution."  I gave
everyone general absolution, and I kept running.
                  J. DELENDICK                  9
     Q.   You're covered?
     A.   Also I ran into a bunch of guys from
the Secret Service, about 25 or 30 of them, all
in their suits.  I don't know the name of the
street that's behind the World Financial Center.
     Q.   It might be North End or --
     A.   It must be North Avenue.  They were
walking along North, crossing Vesey, and they
were going down further.  I stopped one of them
and I said where are you going?  He said one of
our members is in the building and we have to go
find him.  I remember saying to him I don't think
it's a good idea going down there right now.  He
said no, we've got to find him.  I said fine, go
right ahead, do what you have to do.
          I kept going.  I walked along the
river, and a group of us walked along the river.
We walked past the high school, Stuyvesant High
School.  There's an alleyway between the high
school and --
Q. The river?
     A.   -- the river.  I'm not sure what was
there.  I think the river was there.  And we came
up to -- back to West Street.  Then at that point
                  J. DELENDICK                 10
we're all standing around.  Where is everyone?
Where's Pete?  Where's Bill?
          Nigro came a little while later.
Apparently he had walked around I think he said
South Street.  He was down the other way, walked
around somehow and found his way back to Chambers
Street.
          Things began to clear.  We were
looking, and we realized both buildings were no
longer there.  Many of us just walked back down
West Street back to the towers to see what we
could do.
     Q.   There was --
     A.   I learned Father Judge was dead, and I
began to learn that so many guys were gone.
     Q.   Heck of a day, huh?
     A.   I found the worst part of the day was
people coming up to me that I knew and there were
guys who had sons on the job or fathers on the
job or brothers on the job and they would be
asking me:  Did you see my brother?  Have you
seen my father?  Have you seen my son?  I had to
tell them no.  I didn't even know they were
there.  That made it very hard.
                  J. DELENDICK                 11
     Q.   Father, is there anything else you can
think of that you might like to add just for the
history, any feelings, anything else?  Feel free.
If not --
     A.   No, I think that's about it, I guess.
     Q.   In that case I thank you for the
interview?
          MR. TAMBASCO:  And the time is now 1443
     hours.
File No. 9110231
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER WILLIAM JOHNSON
   Interview Date:  December 6, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
W. JOHNSON
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  Today is December 6,
     2001.  The time is 1315 hours.  This is Battalion
     Chief Ronald Kemly of the New York City Fire
     Department conducting an interview with the
     following individual, Firefighter William Johnson,
     fireman first, assigned to ladder 147, detailed to
     the research and development unit.  I'm
     interviewing him at 59 Page Avenue, regarding the
     events of September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Fireman Johnson, please tell me what happened
while you were there?
     A.   The morning of September 11, I reported to
the office of R and D, where on notification of the
accident at the World Trade Center, we responded in the
R and D vehicle.  Along with Lieutenant Stein,
Lieutenant Monachelli, Firefighter Stein and myself.
We responded through the Midtown Tunnel en route to the
World Trade Center.  On arriving at Church Street and
Vesey Street, we pulled our Suburban into the corner.
          As we exited the vehicle, I noticed ESU units
circling the area, who advised us to keep our rig
closer to the corner, so in the process of backing our
rig into the corner, as I looked up, I could at that
moment see the first building coming down.  In that
W. JOHNSON
3
instance, we all started to make our way back up Vesey
and at that point I spotted a doorway.  I jumped into
the doorway and stayed there as the debris and rubble
came down from the first World Trade Center.
          As it cleared, or started to clear, I noticed
a few civilians walking around and we escorted them
into the buildings.  After escorting the civilians into
the buildings, we exited, regrouped at the Suburban,
donned our masks, crossed the street going toward
building 5, where we encountered who we thought was
Father Judge.
          As they brought Father Judge to us, we
examined him quickly, noticing that there was no pulse
and we left him in the hands of EMS.  As we made our
way into building 5 we were notified that there were a
couple of hundred people trapped in the subway below.
In an attempt to try to go down there, the second
building started to collapse.
          Again heading up towards Vesey, making our
way up, this time I was unable to get to cover.  I was
struck by the cloud in the middle of the street.  We
stayed in the middle of the street, for a period of
let's say 5 to 10 minutes until everything cleared
again.
W. JOHNSON
4
          Getting out of that cloud, we regrouped back
at the corner of Broadway and Vesey, where Lieutenant
Stein began the operations of a command post.  I
started my way back down Vesey Street again, to look
for Lieutenant Monachelli, who lost us.  We lost each
other as a matter of fact.  We regrouped.  I found
Lieutenant Monachelli on the corner of Church and
Vesey.  From that point we started to make a couple of
surveys and searches of the area.  Noticing Ladder
119's rig, and a couple of members from that company
and that's about all I can remember.
          For an hour or two we stood there searching
and then I was taken to Bellevue Hospital.  I couldn't
see any more.  I had pretty bad eye problems, so they
transported me to Bellevue where I stayed for I believe
an hour and a half.  I was treated, released and the
health team brought me back home.  That was it.
     Q.   Okay, when you say you were -- you saw the
people that were with Judge, any ID, any unit IDs on
them?
     A.   I remember seeing a court officer, an OEM
person with an OEM jacket on and an EMS driver, I think
think it was, but that's about the only people I can
remember seeing.
W. JOHNSON
5
     Q.   Okay.  Before the second building came down
or subsequent to your arrival, did you happen to see
any other Fire Department units that you could identify
at any place?
     A.   I saw Engine 226.  I don't know exactly where
they were located right now, but I remember seeing 226
on the rig.  I think they were on that Church and Vesey
corner.
     Q.   Other than the vehicle, you didn't see any
Fire Department personnel?
     A.   No, I didn't see any Fire Department
personnel.
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  Okay, that concludes
     the interview.  Thank you.
File No. 9110233
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         CAPTAIN MICHAEL STEIN
   Interview Date:  December 5, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
M. STEIN
2
          BATTALION CHIEF RONALD KEMLY:  Today is
     December 5, 2001.  The time is 12:45 p.m.  This is
     Battalion Chief Ronald Kemly of the New York City
     Fire Department.  I'm conducting an interview with
     the following individual:  Captain Michael Stein
     of the research and development unit of the New
     York City Fire Department.  The interview is being
     conducted at 59 Page Avenue at the R&D unit's
     location regarding the events of September 11,
     2001.
     Q.   Captain Michael Stein, please tell us what
you did at the Trade Center.
     A.   We responded to the Trade Center
approximately 9:15 a.m. after loading our vehicle with
life saving rope, belts, harnesses, rebar cutters, and
other various tools, special tools that the units
have.  We arrived about 30 seconds before the first
tower collapsed.  We arrived on Church Street and Vesey
Street, parked on the northeast corner opposite Engine
226.  We proceeded to get equipment out of the back of
our car when the first building collapsed.  We
retreated to a safe position, approximately hundred
yards behind our car.  I dove underneath the ESU truck
that was parked behind us.  The other members of
M. STEIN
3
research and development were Lieutenant Larry
Monachelli, Firefighter Bill Johnson and Firefighter
Paul A. Stein, also retreated to a safe location.
          After the building came down, we established
some sort of chain to help civilians into the open
building that we found, 30 Vesey Street.  We regrouped
back at the vehicle.  We donned our masks and our
bunker gear.  We proceeded towards 5 World Trade
Center, where we met OEM representative Kevin Culley,
along with a couple of Port Authority police who were
carrying who we believed to be Mychal Judge on a
chair.
          We immediately checked for some sort of
pulse, found none.  We called for EMS.  They responded
with a backboard.  We put Father Judge on a backboard
and then we were preparing to proceed into building
number 5, where we were advised that there were
approximately 100 people trapped in the basement.
          As we approached building number 5, the
second tower began to collapse.  We then retreated down
Vesey Street to Broadway.  We got as far as Broadway
and Ann, where I proceeded to buddy breathe with two
police officers and a reporter.  After the cloud
settled a little bit, we were met by Deputy Chief
M. STEIN
4
Haring of the Sixth Division.  He responded acting the
First Division, where I advised them that both towers
collapsed and that we had set up a command post.
          We set a command post up at Ann and Broadway
and then he assigned me as a staging Chief, a staging
officer, and I immediately set up a staging area at 225
Broadway for the incoming men, at which time I was met
by Dr. Kelly, Dr. Prezant, who advised me that a triage
had been set up in the Duane Reade on Broadway, where
they assigned Dr. Garvey and Dr. Ortiz.
          After reporting back with a list of all the
responding -- the companies that were on the scene, I
headed back to find my members, the rest of my
members.  I was with Firefighter Stein, Firefighter
Johnson and we hooked up with Lieutenant Monachelli and
we proceeded to do a search and rescue of the perimeter
of the World Trade Center area.  That's basically what
we did.
     Q.   Prior to the second building collapsing and
at any time before that, did you see any other units or
could you ascertain their location?  Even if you
weren't with them, did you happen to see where they
were?
     A.   No, we didn't see.  The only unit that was on
M. STEIN
5
there was 226 and their rig was there and it was just a
chauffeur was there, or who I believe was the
chauffeur.  He assisted us by giving us some Scott
bottles, but the officer and the other members weren't
there.
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  Okay.  That concludes
     the interview.  Thank you, Captain Stein.
File No. 9110234
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
     LIEUTENANT LAWRENCE MONACHELLI
   Interview Date:  December 5, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
L. MONACHELLI
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  Today's date is
     December 5, 2001.  The time is 12:15 in the
     afternoon.  This is Battalion Chief Ronald Kemly
     of the New York City Fire Department.  I'm
     conducting an interview with the following
     individual:  Lawrence Monachelli, Lieutenant,
     assigned to the R and D unit of the New York City
     Fire Department at the R and D unit's location at
     59 Page Avenue, Brooklyn, New York regarding the
     events of September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Lieutenant Monachelli will now give a
description of his actions on September 11, 2001.
     A.   I was working my normal shift at the R and D
unit, when we saw on one of the TV channels that a
plane had hit the World Trade Center.  We immediately
began loading some of our equipment; life saving ropes,
some of our life belts.  We have rebar cutters, some
hurst tools and portable lighting, in anticipation of
going to the World Trade Center.  We were loading the
van when the second plane hit.  We immediately geared
up and put extra Scott bottles and proceeded through
the Midtown Tunnel, via Lexington Avenue to the World
Trade Center.
          On arrival at the World Trade Center, we were
L. MONACHELLI
3
putting our gear on, donning our masks, just about to
walk over to building 5.  We were on the corner of
Church and Vesey, when tower two I believe it was,
began to collapse.  We ran up Vesey Street.  I ran into
the lobby of 20 Vesey Street and stayed there until the
building came completely down.
          After about 15 minutes waiting in the lobby,
maybe 10 minutes waiting in the lobby of 20 Vesey, I
went back to our vehicle, which was still parked on the
corner of Church and Vesey, regrouped with the other
members of R and D; Lieutenant Stein, Firefighter
Johnson and Firefighter Stein, where we regrouped and
immediately started to perform a search and rescue for
members.
          Some of the members didn't have their masks
on.  We went back and got bottles out of our van,
proceeded to put our masks on and at this time, we were
walking again down Vesey Street towards building 5
towards the tower, and the second tower began to
collapse.  We all ran for cover.  I again went to 20
Vesey Street where the lobby door had been locked, but
the glass was broken.  Proceeded to go into 20 Vesey
and waited until tower one collapsed.  I was with
civilians and a couple of police officers.
L. MONACHELLI
4
          We stayed there for about 15 minutes again.
Came back out.  I couldn't get out that door.  We had
to go out a rear door because our entrance was
blocked.  We went out through the rear door of 20 Vesey
and made our way down again to Church and Vesey, trying
to look for some of the members of the R and D unit.
We couldn't find anybody.  I had a handy talky, but
transmissions were -- it was impossible to get on the
air at the time.
          I proceeded down Church, where there were
several reports of people trapped, but you couldn't
find anybody.  When I got to the Vista Hotel, there was
a member asking for assistance with moving a Lieutenant
from EMS in the basement of this hotel, which we went
in.  We found the member, he was a Lieutenant, again
from EMS, I'm not sure what unit he was from.  We put
him on a backboard and carried him up the stairs and to
a waiting police boat on the west side.
          The police boat took him over to, I believe
it was Liberty Island or one of the -- I can't remember
what island it was at the time, but they had a hospital
set up or a triage center set up over there.  There was
also a member of Ladder 10 on that boat.  I took a ride
over with the police to the other side and came back.
L. MONACHELLI
5
          I proceeded up again west towards Church and
Vesey where I met Lieutenant Stein and the other
members of the unit, where we performed search and
rescue, pretty much the rest of the day.  We gave out
as many search ropes as we could and rebar cutters and
lights and lanterns and did whatever we could to assist
in any search and rescue efforts.
          We left the -- I guess the Trade Center about
9 p.m. that night.  That's about it.
     Q.   This is Chief Kemly again.  At this time I
want to ask you some questions.  When you say we
responded from quarters, who did you respond with?
     A.   I responded with Lieutenant Stein at the
time.  Firefighter Johnson and Firefighter Stein, all
assigned to the R and D unit.
     Q.   When you arrived you said you went to Vesey
and West?
     A.   Vesey and Church.
     Q.   Vesey and Church.  Is that where you wound up
parking?
     A.   Yes, right on the corner there.
     Q.   Did you see any other units when you arrived?
     A.   I believe Engine Company 226 was on our
corner.  I'm not sure.  We do have a few photos.
6
     A.   Not Fire Department units.  Police units
mostly were around us.
     Q.   Your actions before the second tower came
down were basically finding your own men?
     A.   Looking for my own men and search and rescue,
and anybody we could help out.
     Q.   Did anybody inform you as to where the
command post was located to begin with?
     A.   Not at that time, no.
     Q.   Before the both towers came down, you had
responded on your own and you didn't see any units
other than 226?
     A.   At that time, no.
     Q.   What location did you see 226 at?
     A.   Right on the corner of Church and Vesey,
opposite of Saint Pauls Church.
     Q.   Prior to the first collapse?
     A.   They had a hydrant, right.
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  That concludes the
     interview.  Thank you very much.
L. MONACHELLI
     Q.   Did you see any other units at any time
besides that?
File No. 9110235
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER PATRICK SULLIVAN
   Interview Date:  December 5, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
P. SULLIVAN
2
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Today's date is
     December 5, 2001.  The time is 1:40 p.m.  This is
     Firefighter Patrick Sullivan's interview from the
     World Trade Center.  I'm Battalion Chief Robert
     Burns of the Safety Battalion.
     Q.   If you would Pat, please tell me about what
you saw or heard on that day when you guys responded to
the Trade Center?
     A.   When I first saw the plane crash on the news,
I was getting relieved.  I was coming off a 24 and I
was supposed to be going home.  I was actually in my
civilian clothes.  After the first plane hit, they had
a voice alarm announcement and ordered everyone going
home to stay and every Engine would be riding with five
men.  I don't know how long -- I changed back into my
uniform.  I don't know how long it was after that, 5
minutes, 10 minutes, we responded.  A little after the
48 went.
          We went through the tunnel as we were
responding.  We were going over into the Gowanus
through the tunnel, we were supposed to go to the
staging area outside the tunnel and as we were going,
you could see the building, you could see the fire, you
could see the flames and you could also see the smoke
P. SULLIVAN
3
coming out of the building.  There was also papers
blowing as far as here, regular sheets of paper blowing
through the air.  I guess that's from when the plane
hit.
          We went to the staging area.  We stayed at
the staging area for maybe 5, 10 minutes until all the
companies that were going on the ticket, everyone was
there, they all grouped together and we went.  I don't
know all the companies that were there, but I know 201
was with us.  I couldn't tell you what other companies
were there at the time.
          We responded and we went through the tunnel.
We came up the West Side Highway on the right side of
the divider and we were stopped by either a Chief or a
police officer.  We couldn't go any further because
there was organic matter in the street and they were
considering it evidence.  There was a part of a body
probably from when the plane hit.
          So we got out of the rig and we started
walking.  We walked maybe 50 feet further and there was
a Deputy Chief there.  I don't know the Deputy Chief's
name.  He was there with his aide.  He was an on duty
Deputy Chief.  He had an official car.  There was
another Deputy Chief there, I think he came in his
P. SULLIVAN
4
private car, because he was there with the other Chief,
unless they were riding with 2, which could have been
two.  Maybe they both took the run in when they got
it.
          Anyway he told us drop our roll ups, that we
were going to walk up, we were going to go to the 40th
floor.  I think there was another staging area on the
40th floor, tower two, the south tower, if that's tower
two, the one closer to the Battery Tunnel.  We were
going to walk up.  He said it's going to take 40
minutes to an hour to get up there, to drop our roll
ups and start walking.
          He said watch out for bodies, bodies coming
down like leaves from a tree.  They were coming down
all over the place.  He said God be with you and we
started walking.
          As we started walking, I was looking straight
up at the tower and I saw the top of the tower coming
down.  I saw the black smoke, sort of like pushing out,
and I saw debris starting to come out from the
building, probably from one floor depressing on the
other, blowing everything out and I knew it was coming
down.
          I turned around and I yelled to the guys that
P. SULLIVAN
5
were with me to run.  They seemed to be just standing
there, frozen.  I don't know if it was disbelief or
shock or what.  But they snapped out of it and they
turned around and started running.  As we started
running, we were right -- there's a, on the West Side
Highway, there is a pass through.  There is a concrete
divider that goes between the two lanes, north and
south, and there is a pass through right on the other
side of the pedestrian bridge that didn't come down.
          That's where we were, walking towards 2 World
Trade Center.  That's where we were when we started
walking.  When I saw the building was coming down, I
turned around and started running back towards Albany
Street.  I was trying to get around another building
and down the block.  I saw tomorrow Tommy Dun was with
me.  He was in front of me.  He was our proby, and
another guy, Darren Jacobs, he was in front of me as
well.
          I didn't get as far as Darren and Tommy.
Tommy must have been 30 feet in front of me and after
the collapse he couldn't hear me.  I was calling for
him.  Darren kept on running.  I don't know where he
wound up ending up, but Tommy Dunn was maybe 30 feet in
front of me.  I was right by a Suburban car.
P. SULLIVAN
6
          As I was running, there was debris, I don't
know what it was, rocks or part of the building,
shooting over my head, hitting the ground and it was
going through windows and taking cars out.  I ran as
fast as I could and as far as I could until the black
dust cloud overtook me and I couldn't see any more.  I
knew that there was a car there because I saw it just
before it blacked out.  I went over to the car and I
thought not to go under the car, because if something
landed on the car it would crush me and the car.  I
thought I would just go next to it like a void, try to
make a void and hope for the best.
          I remember thinking that -- first I remember
praying that I was going to make it out of there alive,
but I didn't think I was going to.  I didn't think I
was going to make it out of there.  I prayed that my
family would be okay.  My wife and my boy would be
okay, and I waited for something substantial to land on
me and I was hoping it was going to be quick.  I was
hoping I wouldn't be trapped for any period of time.  I
was getting pelted with -- it felt like soft balls.  I
couldn't breathe.  It was like putting your face in a
bag of cement and trying to take a deep breath.
          I couldn't get any air.  It was like holding
P. SULLIVAN
7
your breath, trying to breathe in and breathe out.
Nothing was going in and nothing was going out.  So I
tried to take my mask.  This all happened in between
maybe 15 and 30 seconds.  I tried to take my mask and
take a hit off my mask and it didn't work.  There was
no air coming out of it.  There was a pile of dust
inside so I shook it out.  Shook all the dust out and
tried to take another breath.  It just wasn't giving me
any air.  I remember trying to turn the valve again,
thinking that my mask wasn't on, but it was on.  It
just wasn't working.  It was clogged up with shit in
it.  I banged it a couple of times.  I finally got a
little bit of a breath out of the mask and shortly
after that, it started clearing up anyway.  I could
start seeing daylight through the dust.
          I remember it being very very quiet, like
being under water.  I was calling out to my proby.  I
was yelling his name and I was yelling, you know,
anybody in 240, because I didn't have a radio and I
didn't know if anybody else made it.  He couldn't hear
me calling.  He must have been maybe 30 feet in front
of me.  The sound must have been like not traveling
through the air.  It must have been stopping dead
because it was so thick.
P. SULLIVAN
8
          After that, I got up and I started seeing, I
started hearing pass alarms going off.  I started
walking around.  I started looking for my company.  I
couldn't find anyone from my company.  I was on Albany
Street.  I went down to -- one more block and I turned
around and went back to the rig.  I figured maybe guys
would go back to the rig.  That's where I ran into John
Winkler.  And we tried to test the hydrant and hook up
to a hydrant to put out car fires.  There were a bunch
of car fires right by the rig.
          There was a Deputy Chief's rig on fire that
was extended to 113's rig.  There was a big ambulance,
like a rescue company truck, but it wasn't a rescue
company truck.  It was a huge ambulance.  It must have
had Scott bottles or oxygen bottles on it.  These were
going off.  You would hear the air go SSS boom and they
were exploding.  So we stretched a line and tried to
put that out.  He could only use booster water.
          We would open up the hydrants.  The hydrants
weren't working.  The water main broke or something.
So after we ran our booster water, the rig was
basically useless.  113's rig went up and we tried to
get a line from the fire boats to supply one of the
rigs so we could get some water.
P. SULLIVAN
9
          At that point I had to leave because I
couldn't see any more.  I couldn't open my eyes.  I had
to rinse my eyes out quite a few times during the
course of what we were doing.  After a while I couldn't
open my eyes any more.  There was fiberglass or
whatever the hell was in there.  They led me.  Two guys
led me to the water by a rope and a cop drove me to an
ambulance.
          From the ambulance they rinsed my eyes out
again.  I walked to the tunnel and hitched a ride with
a Port Authority guy to the other side and came back to
the fire house.  That must have been about 2:00 or so
or 3:00 in the afternoon.  I don't know if I left
anything out, but that's basically what happened, as I
remember it.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Great.  Thanks, Pat.
     It's 1:51 p.m., this is the conclusion of the
     interview.
File No. 9110236
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER JOHN WINKLER
   Interview Date:  December 5, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
J. WINKLER 2
          CHIEF BURNS:  Today is the 5th of
     December, 2001.  The time is 1:25 p.m.
     This is Engine 240.  My name is Battalion
     Chief Robert Burns, New York City Fire
     Department.  I'm conducting an interview of
     Firefighter John Winkler, Engine 240.  This
     is in regards to the events of September
     11th, 2001.
     Q.   Maybe, John, you can tell me in your
own words what happened at the Trade Center from
the time that you responded to the scene until
you guys left the scene.
     A.   When we received the ticket, we were
assigned to the Brooklyn side of the Brooklyn
Battery Tunnel.  There was a staging area.  We
were the first ones there.  On the arrival of the
other companies, we received a ticket to respond
to West Street, West and Liberty.
          I was driving that day.  I went through
the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel, came up West Street.
There was a chief at West and Albany who stopped
us right on West Street and told us to remain
right here.
          Members of my company got out, grabbed
J. WINKLER 3
their rollups, reported to the chief that was on
the sidewalk on the west side sidewalk of West
Street.  This was after the second plane hit,
before the first tower came down.
          I was told to stay with the rig.  I
proceeded to put my bunker gear on when I looked
up and I saw the tower falling, the first tower
coming down.  I jumped into the cab, put my
helmet on and just ducked and just waited.  It
shattered the windows, shook the rig.
          While sitting in the rig, I heard over
the radio that "I'm trapped underneath the rig."
So I responded -- I'm not sure if I responded on
the department radio or on the handy talky --
"Engine 240 chauffeur coming to get you."
          I climbed out of the rig, climbed over
the rubble, got my mask and went forward and
walked north on West Street.  Right before the
south pedestrian bridge, there was I believe it
was one of our members stuck under an ambulance.
There was another fireman with him.  He said, "We
have a guy under the ambulance here."
          I gave a mayday on the radio that I'm
240 chauffeur, we have a guy stuck under an
J. WINKLER 4
ambulance by the south bridge.  I then proceeded
to grab members from Ladder 14.  We grabbed their
air bags, went back to the ambulance.  By that
time the guy was already out.  The member was
out.  So I left 113.
          I went back south on West Street to
where 240 was.  At that time I was told by
Chief I don't know who that we have to start
putting these fire outs.  There were numerous car
vehicles on fire.  There were also ESU vehicles
on fire.  I was told they have ammunition in them
and we have to get them out.
          Tested the hydrant; there was water.
Connected to the hydrant; there was no water.  In
the meantime I put the rig in pumps.  One of my
members stretched a line with the help from other
firefighters.  While I was in pumps, I used that
as a booster and was putting car fires out.
          We tried to get another hydrant.  Same
thing:  opened the hydrant; there was water.
Connected to it, there wasn't enough water.
While doing all of this, he ran out of booster
line.
          The best I can remember, we just got
J. WINKLER 5
together.  That's when the second tower came
down.  I dove behind a chief's rig, the two of
us, and same thing.  We were down there for a
while.  Mouth full of the dust, choking on it.
Couldn't see for a while.  Finally it cleared up
a little bit to see.
          We regrouped, got a couple of our guys.
Everybody proceeded to walk down Albany to the
water, where we started stretching lines to the
fire boat.  We continued stretching lines,
lengths of hose, up Albany Street to West Street.
          Pretty much the rest of the day that's
what we were doing, taking lines from the fire
from the water up Albany Street, down Albany to
Washington, around, and just continued doing that
most of the day.  That's about it.
     Q.   Let me ask you a question, John.  When
you said you saw chiefs when you came in, do you
know the name or the identity of the battalion
or --
     A.   I know one of them that was on the
sidewalk was Chief Lakiotes.
     Q.   Okay, from the Safety Battalion.
     A.   He was on the sidewalk.  My company
J. WINKLER 6
reported to him.  There was another chief in the
street that stopped me and said "Keep the rig
right here."  I was double parked right next to I
believe it was 210, right behind Ladder 113.
          I didn't catch his name, but I think he
was the guy that was pretty much running this
area, telling us to stretch lines, we've got to
get hose, we've got to put fires out.  I'm not
sure of his name.
     Q.   Okay.  Great.  Okay, John, thanks for
the interview.
          CHIEF BURNS:  The time is 1:29 p.m.
File No. 9110237
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER OWEN CARLOCK
  Interview Date:  December 5th, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
O. CARLOCK 2
          CHIEF BURNS:  Today's date is December
     5th, 2001.  The time is 4:17 p.m.  I am
     Battalion Chief Robert Burns, Safety
     Battalion, FDNY.  I'm conducting an
     interview with Firefighter Owen Carlock,
     Ladder 122, detailed on the day of the
     incident to Engine 220.  This is in
     reference to the events that occurred on
     September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Owen, if you would, just tell us in
your own words exactly what happened that day.
     A.   We took the Brooklyn Bridge, which was
closed.  We had trouble getting there from here
with all the traffic.  We took the Brooklyn
Bridge, which was emptied at Chambers Street, a
lot of traffic, obviously, in Manhattan.
          We went to West Street, turned left on
West.  We picked up a straggler, John Jermyn,
from the -- he used to be here in 122.  He works
in the Fire Department Museum.  We picked him up
and drove around to -- as near as I can figure
out, I think it was between Murray and Barclay
Street, where we left the rig on the southbound
lanes.
O. CARLOCK 3
          We walked down the southbound lanes to
I guess it was the command post.  Captain Grabher
went over there, and they told him to go to the
south tower.  So he said he wasn't going to take
Liberty because of the jumpers.
          So we went to some building on the
corner of Albany and West Street that's under
construction.  It's being renovated.  We went
that way.  We took Albany past Washington, and
then we were on our way to Greenwich?  No, it was
at Washington when the tower came down on us.
Somebody yelled "Oh, shit, here it comes."  It
was coming towards us.
          So we dove behind the Deutsche Bank,
and the five of us -- three went back, four went
ahead, the seven of us.  Four of us laid behind
that building, waiting.  We thought we were going
to die.
          After that we tried to take a window in
the back of the bank.  We did take a window, but
behind it was a steel wall, corrugated tin or
whatever.  We couldn't get into the window.
          They followed me.  I had the light.
They followed me, and we went into Deutsche Bank
O. CARLOCK 4
into the side entrance, got our wits about us,
and we went across the street to get Eddie and
George and Mike Schroeck.
          Then we were going to make our way back
to the command center when the north tower came
down.  We ducked into some hotel.  I don't know
what hotel it was.  It was on West Street south
of Albany.
          After that came down and the stuff
cleared, the officer said, "Listen, we're not
going to go back to that area.  We're going to
come around, because we don't know what else is
going to come down, what else could come tumbling
down."
          So we went over to the water, and from
there we helped Marine 6 put it into -- I think
it was Captain Fuentes.  They dug him out.  He
was banged up pretty good.  We helped put him on
the boat.
          At that time Captain Grabher told Eddie
Plunkett and myself, "Go find a rig and back it
up to the fire boat, Marine 9, which is already
there."  He said, "We're going to at least get
water as best as we can to the towers."
O. CARLOCK 5
          Eddie and I found I don't know whose
rig it was.  We backed it up to the fire hose,
took the three and a half off of there and went
as far as we could.  Then another rig came, and
they stretched their three and a half off the rig
we were on, and then they left.
          I went back to find Captain Grabher,
Mike Schroeck, George and Dean.  They were
nowhere to be found.  Later on I found out they
were on the ninth floor of one of the apartment
buildings on the west side of West Street,
fighting the fire on the ninth floor.  That's why
I couldn't find them.  I had no radio.  I had no
clue where they were.
          So I hooked up after a while with Chief
Congiusta of 48.  He and I went down with a
couple other guys from 240 into the parking lot
of the Vista to look for 6 Truck, which was
missing at the time.  We were standing there and
waited for him to come out, and he never came
out.  He took an underground passageway and came
out on Barclay Street.
          After that I hooked up with four guys,
recall guys.  I hooked up with 220 and stayed the
O. CARLOCK 6
rest of the night until 11:30 and went to the
hospital.  I had my eyes cleaned out.
          As far as the companies, somebody said
205 was right in front of us, and I don't
remember seeing them.  That's the best I can tell
you where we were, where everybody is, that's
what we did the day of the attack.
          CHIEF BURNS:  That concludes our
     interview.  The time is 4:22 p.m.

FILE NO 9110238
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER KEITH MURPHY
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

MURPHY
BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN TODAY IS DECEMBER 2001 THE TIME IS 1208 THIS IS BATTALION
CHIEF DENNIS KENAHAN OF THE SAFETY BATTALION FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK IM
CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH KEITH MURPHY FROM
ENGINE 47
GIVE ME THE EVENTS AS YOU REMEMBER THEM FROM
SEPTEMBER 11 2001
OKAY BASICALLY WAS IN THE FIRE HOUSE THAT
MORNING AND WILL JUST GIVE YOU REAL QUICK SYNOPSIS OF WHERE WE WERE AT WE WERE IN THE KITCHEN GETTING
READY FOR START OF TOUR LIKE NORMAL IT WAS ACTUALLY PRIOR ROLL CALL BECAUSE IT WAS ABOUT 845 10 TO
HEARD THE DISPATCHER QUEUE UP THE VOICE ALARM AND IT SOUNDED LIKE THEY WERE LOOKING FOR
COMPANY OR BATTALION OR SOMETHING IT WAS JUST
WEIRD THING BECAUSE IT JUST SOUNDED STRANGE
LIKE 30 SECONDS OR MINUTE LATER THE VOICE
CAME OVER THE VOICE ALARM AND SAID SECOND ALARM TRANSMITTED STILL REMEMBER BOX 8087 WORLD TRADE CENTER NUMBER ONE ILL ALWAYS REMEMBER HIS VOICE IT JUST DIDNT SOUND NORMAL SOMETHING JUST WASNT
RIGHT
WE FLIPPED THE CHANNEL WE HAD THE TV ON IN
MAYBE THEY

MURPHY
THE KITCHEN WE FLIPPED THE CHANNEL WE SAW BREAKING NEWS ON CHANNEL PROBABLY AND WE SEE THE NORTH TOWER
THEY FLASHED TO IT THE TOWER IS BURNING NATURALLY WE WERE SHOCKED LIKE EVERYONE ELSE NO ONE KNEW WHAT WAS
GOING ON AND STARTED TO HEAR ON THE TV PEOPLE STARTED SAYING IT MIGHT BE PLANE CRASH SO COUPLE OF THE GUYS RAN UP TO THE HOUSE WATCH PUT ON THE DEPARTMENT RADIO AND WAS STILL IN THE BACK BY THE KITCHEN
PROBABLY 10 MINUTES PASSED MAYBE 15 TOPS ABOUT 10 IM WATCHING THE TELEVISION AND AGAIN THEY
ARE SHOWING THE TOWERS AND ALL OF
CORNER OF MY EYE SEE BLIP GO BY
LATER WAS PLANE THEN THERE WAS
SECOND TOWER RAN UP TO THE HOUSE WATCH TO TELL THE GUYS DID YOU GUYS SEE THAT PLANE THINK ANOTHER PLANE HIT AND BEFORE COULD EVEN GET THE WORDS OUT OUR DISPATCHER WAS SAYING REPORT OF SECOND PLANE INTO WORLD TRADE CENTER NUMBER
WITHIN MAYBE MINUTES OF THAT WAS
THINKING IN MY HEAD WE ARE RELOCATING DEFINITELY WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE HERE FOR LONG WITHIN FIVE MINUTES THE VOICE ALARM CAME ON AND WE WERE ASSIGNED ON THE
FIFTH ALARM WE NEVER GOT TELEPRINTER TICKET BUT WE WERE ASSIGNED OVER THE VOICE ALARM ON THE FIFTH ALARM
SUDDEN OUT OF THE WHICH DETERMINED HUGE EXPLOSION

MURPHY
TO THE SECOND TOWER SO WE WERE GOING TO THE SOUTH TOWER THE SECOND TOWER THAT WAS HIT
WE GOT OFF STOPPED AND GRABBED EXTRA
FLASHLIGHTS DID EVERYTHING WE COULD REAL QUICK JUMPED ON THE RIG AND STARTED TO RESPOND WE ARE ON 113
STREET JUST OFF AMSTERDAM AVENUE SO WE CAME DOWN 113 STREET WE TURNED THE CORNER AT BROADWAY AND THE CHAUFFEUR WENT SOUTH DOWN BROADWAY AND THEN IT TURNS YOU BEAR TO THE RIGHT REMEMBER GOING DOWN WEST END AVENUE
AT THIS POINT WE WERE MAKING REAL GOOD TIME THERE WAS NO TRAFFIC WE WENT ALL THE WAY DOWN THE WEST SIDE TILL GUESS BELIEVE WEST END TURNS INTO 11TH AVENUE COULD BE TENTH BUT THINK ITS 11TH AVENUE CONTINUED STRAIGHT DOWN TO THERE AND BELIEVE WE CAME INTO THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY WHICH IS WEST STREET REALLY ABOUT 23RD STREET THINK
WE TURNED DOWN WEST STREET WEST SIDE HIGHWAY AND WAS SITTING IN THE JUMP SEAT BEHIND THE
CHAUFFEUR SO WAS LOOKING FORWARD JUST AS WE WENT FEW BLOCKS SOUTH BOTH TOWERS CAME INTO VIEW COULD SEE HEAVY HEAVY SMOKE AND EVEN FROM THAT DISTANCE AS WE GOT CLOSER WE WERE STILL PRETTY GOOD DISTANCE AWAY AND COULD SEE FIRE SHOWING VISIBLE FIRE THROUGHOUT

DOZENS OF FLOORS
MURPHY
NATURALLY ON THE RIG WE WERE LISTENING TO THE RADIO AND GEARING UP AND IT PROBABLY WAS THE TOUGHEST RUN EVER TOOK IN WE KNEW WE HAD SOMETHING PRETTY HEAVY IN FRONT OF US WE WERE COMING DOWN THE WEST
SIDE HIGHWAY AND THE COPS HAD CLOSED REMEMBER SEEING SQUAD CARS AND THEY HAD CLOSED OFF TO BLOCK TRAFFIC
SO AT ONE POINT IT WOULD BE GUESS ONLY WE WERE SOUTH OF HOUSTON THINK DEFINITELY SOUTH OF
CANAL MAYBE SOUTH OF HOUSTON DEFINITELY SOUTH OF HOUSTON RATHER AND MAYBE EVEN AS FAR AS CANAL WE SAW
THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HIGHWAY GOING NORTHBOUND WAS
THE CHAUFFEUR SAW THAT BUT REALIZED IT BECAUSE HE THEN TOOK THE WRONG WAY DOWN AND IT WAS CLEAR
SHOT THERE WERE OTHER NOTICED OTHER POLICE CARS OTHER RIGS THINK THERE WERE OTHER RIGS BEHIND US
DONT REMEMBER SEEING THEM BUT REMEMBER HEARING OTHER RIGS
WE CONTINUED SOUTH DOWN THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HIGHWAY WHICH WOULD BE THE NORTHBOUND SIDE WE PARKED
ON WEST STREET WOULD SAY MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT WE WERE LITTLE NORTH OF VESEY STREET BUT IT MIGHT
LOOKING AT THE MAP THATS HERE WE MIGHT HAVE BEEN AS
OPEN

MURPHY
FAR AS UP AS BARCLAY THOUGHT IT WAS VESEY BUT IM THINKING THAT FROM THIS MAP IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN ANOTHER
BLOCK IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN LITTLE NORTH OF BARCLAY AND SOUTH OF MURRAY STREET BECAUSE WE DID WALK QUITE
DISTANCE
NOW WE ARRIVE AT THE BOX WE HAD ALL OUR
REGULAR GEAR AND WE WERE THINKING HIGH RISE AND WE WERE GOING TO TAKE THE EXTRA CYLINDERS BUT THE OFFICER SUGGESTED THAT WE TAKE OUR MEDICAL MASK UP HAVE ALL OUR STUFF AND THEN TAKE SOME EXTRA THINGS WE TOOK OUR MEDICAL BAGS THE 02 WE TOOK THE HOSE DROP ROLL AND AN EXTRA HOSE AND AN EXTRA SPARE BELIEVE SOMEONE TOOK FORCEFUL ENTRY TOOLS TOO IT STICKS IN MY HEAD
BUT COULD BE WRONG KNOW THEY WERE GONE LATER BUT IT COULD HAVE BEEN THE RIG WAS RAIDED THOUGHT WE
HAD THOSE TOO
WE GOT ALL OUR GEAR TOGETHER AND WE MET IN FRONT OF THE RIG AND THE OFFICER BASICALLY TOLD US TO JUST STAY CALM RELAX WE ARE GOING TO STICK TOGETHER AND WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOKING FOR THE COMMAND POST WE STARTED TO WALK SOUTH ON WEST
STREET AND WE HAD OUR ROLL UPS OF COURSE
WE WALKED PRETTY GOOD DISTANCE PROBABLY BLOCKS AT THIS POINT STARTED TO NOTICE
FELT LIKE
COUPLE OF LOT OF

MURPHY
OTHER RIGS APPARATUS REMEMBER PASSING THE HAZMAT
COMPANY BIG RIG SO GUESS THEY HAD TO HAVE BEEN ON THE SCENE AT THAT POINT IF HAD TO GUESS THE TIME
WOULD THINK IN MY MIND WE PROBABLY TOOK IN THE BOX AROUND 910 WE MADE GREAT TIME DOWN THE WEST SIDE COULDNT BELIEVE HOW FAST SO WOULD SAY AT THIS POINT WE PULL UP ITS PROBABLY 925 MAYBE THATS WHAT THINK BUT IM NOT HUNDRED PERCENT SURE ON THAT
WE KEPT GOING SOUTH SEE LOT OF OTHER
COMPANIES BUT REALLY DONT REMEMBER REALLY ANYTHING BUT THAT HAZMAT COMPANY DO RECALL POLICE OFFICERS
KIND OF RUNNING UP TO US AND THEY HAD THEIR RADIOS
THEIR DEPARTMENT RADIOS AND THEY KEPT SAYING
GUYS SPECIFICALLY TO THE OFFICER BUT WE WERE RIGHT THERE
WE HAVE REPORT OF THIRD INBOUND AIRCRAFT THATS ALL HE SAID HE DIDNT SAY JET OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT JUST SAID WE HAVE REPORT OF THIRD INBOUND
AIRCRAFT AT THAT POINT JUST TO THE RIGHT OF US WAS THE WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER AND IMMEDIATELY ON OUR LEFT WAS THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER COMPLEX LOOKS LIKE HERE ITS NUMBER WORLD TRADE CENTER WOULD BE ON MY LEFT WE WERE COMING UP TO THE FIRST
PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE

MURPHY
CAME UP TO THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE CAME UNDER IT NOW AS WE WERE UNDER IT NOW WE ARE LOOKING AT THE
PLAZA AND YOU COULD SEE PEOPLE THERE WAS DEBRIS
FALLING PEOPLE JUMPING BODIES HITTING THE GROUND TO OUR FAR RIGHT SOME OTHER COMPANIES SEEMED TO BE GATHERING DONT KNOW IF IT WAS COMMAND POST BUT THERE SEEMED TO BE PEOPLE GATHERING ACROSS THE STREET FROM THERE BUT THERE WAS SO MANY COMPANIES COMING IN TOGETHER WE WERE KIND OF SPREAD OUT SO DONT KNOW WHETHER THEY WERE GOING SOMEWHERE THEY HAD BEEN
ASSIGNED TO ALL KNOW IS OUR OFFICER SAID WE WERE LOOKING FOR THE SOUTH TOWER COMMAND POST
SO IN OUR MINDS WE KNOW WE ARE GOING TO THE SOUTH TOWER NOW WE ARE WAY NORTH OF THAT AT THIS
POINT SO WE PASS UNDER THIS PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE AND NOW WE ARE IN THE PLAZA REMEMBER NOT BEING ON THE
STREET OR REGULAR SIDEWALK REMEMBER IT BEING
FEW SMALL STAIRS AND WE WERE WALKING THROUGH AND THERE
WAS TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF BODY PARTS THEN THERE WERE FULL TORSOS NOTICE LOT OF PEOPLE WITH HEADS
MISSING LEGS MISSING ARMS MISSING ALMOST WALKED INTO ONE AND WOULDNT EVEN HAVE BELIEVED IT LOOKED
LIKE BUNDLE OF RAGS AND IT WAS BODY
WE WERE LOOKING UP KIND OF WATCHING WHAT WAS

MURPHY
FALLING TO SEE WHERE OUR BEARINGS WERE AND OUR NEXT
GOAL AT THIS POINT WAS AND IT WAS QUITE WAYS DOWN BECAUSE SEE NOW ON THE MAP WE WERE HEADING TOWARDS
LIBERTY STREET SO WE ACTUALLY MADE IT THROUGH WE WENT BACK OUT OF THAT PLAZA BECAUSE IT WAS OBVIOUSLY
MORE DANGEROUS THERE AND WE WORKED OUR WAY BACK TOWARDS THE STREET WE CAME DOWN WE KEPT COMING SOUTH DOWN THE STREET AND WE ARE STILL WALKING WITH ALL OUR GEAR
REMEMBER AT THIS POINT BEING REALLY WE WERE ALL
GEARED UP SO IT WAS GETTING VERY WARM
WE WENT SOUTH TO THE NEXT PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE
WHICH GUESS WAS THE SOUTH PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE AND WE KIND OF TOOK COVER UNDER THERE AT THAT POINT OUR OFFICER STEPPED AWAY THOUGHT HE HAD TALKED TO CIVILIAN BUT IT COULD HAVE BEEN FIRE EMPLOYEE IM NOT SURE WHO IT WAS BUT HE WAS MAYBE ABOUT 10 12 FEET AWAY WE ARE MAN COMPANY SO THE CHAUFFEUR WASNT WITH US BUT THE FOUR OF US WERE TOGETHER HE WALKED BACK OVER AND HE SAID WE HAVE TO GO TO THE COMMAND POST ITS IN THE MARRIOTT LOBBY WHICH IS GUESS NUMBER WORLD TRADE CENTER
HE SAID TO US AGAIN ABOUT LOOKING UP WATCH
WHERE WE ARE GOING WE HAVE TO GET OVER THERE AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN SO WE KIND OF WOULDNT SAY WE

MURPHY
RAN BUT WE WERE GOING PRETTY FAST AND WATCHING AGAIN
WATCHING UP AT ALL THE THINGS THAT WERE DROPPING DOWN PEOPLE AND STILL THERE WAS LOT OF DEBRIS STILL
FALLING TOO
WE MADE IT OVER TO THE ENTRANCE TO THE
MARRIOTT HOTEL WHICH WAS ON WEST STREET WENT IN WE WENT IN THE WEST STREET SIDE
GUESS WE DONT
DONT
THINK WE WENT UPSTAIRS BUT WE WENT INTO LIKE
KNOW IF IT WAS DRIVEWAY OR NOT BUT WE CAME INTO THE LOBBY AND WE PASSED UNDER BIG AWNING AND REMEMBER THE AWNING WAS GLASS ONE OF THOSE GLASS AND STEEL ENCASED AWNINGS AND JUST AS WE GOT INTO THE REVOLVING DOORS TO GO INTO THE LOBBY THIS HUGE CRASH BODY HIT THE GLASS AND THE STEEL DIDNT COME THROUGH BUT IT SOUNDED LIKE BOMB HAD GONE OFF BUT IT WAS BODY HITTING THIS GLASS
NOW WE GET INTO THE LOBBY AND CLEARLY REMEMBER RIGHT AWAY SEEING DEPUTY CHIEF GALVIN FROM THE
THIRD DIVISION HE WAS LITTLE BIT TO OUR RIGHT
REMEMBER HIM YELLING OUT TO THE GUYS WANT MY ENGINE
COMPANIES ON THE LEFT TRUCK COMPANIES ON MY RIGHT TOLD THE MEN HANG BACK OFFICERS COME UP TO THE DESK
IT WAS KIND OF LIKE FRONT DESK AND THE LOBBY WAS SET UP LITTLE WEIRD IT WASNT LIKE YOU WALKED IN AND
10

MURPHY
INTO THE MIDDLE IT WAS KIND OF LIKE THE DESK SEEMED
TO BE LITTLE TO THE RIGHT WE WERE GATHERED OVER WAITING FOR OUR OFFICER TO COME BACK ACTUALLY SAW MEMBER OF WE SAW 74 ENGINE WHICH IS FROM OUR BATTALION WE KIND OF STARTED TALKING TO THEM ONE OF THE GUYS WAS SAYING TO ME THAT HE HAD BEEN HERE IN 93 COULDNT BELIEVE HE WAS BACK ANOTHER GUY WHO
HAPPENED TO KNOW WHO IM PRETTY FRIENDLY WITH WHO
DIDNT SURVIVE WAS IN THERE ALSO AND HIS NAME IS RUBEN
CORREA HE IS FROM ENGINE 74 WE WERE TALKING WITH HIM AND HE ACTUALLY TOLD ME TO BE SAFE IN THERE WHICH
WILL NEVER FORGET
THEY ENDED UP BEING ASSIGNED SEPARATELY MAYBE OR MINUTES LATER THE OFFICER WHO WAS MY
LIEUTENANT CAME BACK AFTER TALKING TO CHIEF GALVIN AND HE SAID THAT WE ARE ASSIGNED TO THE 44TH FLOOR OF THE
SOUTH TOWER HE SAID THERE IS REPORT OF FIRE AS LOW AS 44 AND HE WANTED TWO GUYS FROM OUR COMPANY TO GO FIND THE STAIRWELL GET SOMEONE FROM THE MARRIOTT
THERE IS SUPPOSED TO BE STAIRCASE INTO THE SOUTH TOWER THAT YOU CAN GET TO SAFELY FROM THE HOTEL
SO THE CONTROL MAN AND THE DOORMAN WENT TO GO FIND THIS THEY WENT UP STAIRCASE IT WAS KIND OF LIKE GRAND STAIRCASE THEY WENT UP THE STAIRCASE
11

MURPHY
THEY DISAPPEARED FOR MAYBE FOUR OR FIVE MINUTES AND CAME BACK IN THE MEANTIME WE HAD BEEN ASSIGNED WITH
ENGINE COMPANIES ENGINE 47 ENGINE 22 ENGINE 21 AND LADDER 13 THE FOUR OF US HAD BEEN ASSIGNED GUESS AS
GROUP BUT IT WAS KIND OF STRANGE BECAUSE
REMEMBER US BEING ASSIGNED AS GROUP BUT WE WERE KIND OF STILL FUNCTIONING LITTLE INDEPENDENTLY AT THIS POINT
OUR TWO GUYS CAME BACK AND THEY STARTED TO
SAY THAT THE GUY SHOWED THEM
SHOWED THEM STAIRWELL BUT DONT THINK THEY WERE
100 PERCENT CONVINCED THAT IT
NOT TOWER STAIRWELL BUT BEFORE WE COULD EVEN ACT ON
THAT THE CAPTAIN OF LADDER 13 AND SINCE FOUND OUT DIDNT KNOW HIS NAME THAT DAY HIS NAME WAS CAPTAIN HYNES SAID THAT COUPLE OF HIS GUYS FOUND AN ELEVATOR THAT WAS STILL WORKING HE SAID WE ARE GOING TO CHECK
THIS ELEVATOR
ALL FOUR COMPANIES HEADED OUT OF THE MARRIOTT
AND WHAT FOUND OUT IT TOOK DAY LATER TO PIECE TOGETHER WE HEADED TO THE NORTH TOWER NOT THE SOUTH TOWER THAT CHANGED THATS ONE OF THE REASONS AM STILL HERE BUT ALSO AT THIS POINT WE THINK WE ARE STILL HEADING TO THE 44TH FLOOR OF THE SOUTH TOWER HE
MAINTENANCE WORKER
WAS HOTEL STAIRWELL AND
12

MURPHY
ALSO SAID AT THE TIME HE SAID WE FOUND AN ELEVATOR IT WORKS IT WILL ONLY GET US TO 24 AND WE WILL HAVE TO WALK THE OTHER 20 FLIGHTS BUT AT LEAST IT WILL GET US HALFWAY THERE
REMEMBER THINKING LOT OF GUYS COUPLE OF MY SENIOR GUYS SAYING ELEVATORS YOU KNOW WE DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE BUILDING BUT ELEVATORS SOUNDED KIND OF LETS SEE WE KNOW THIS SOUNDS LIKE
IT JUST SOUNDED KIND OF SCARY WE CAME THROUGH THE MARRIOTT WE LEFT THE MARRIOTT AND IT WAS DETERMINED NOW WE WOULD HAVE WALKED OUT OF THE MARRIOTT ALL INTERNALLY THOUGH DONT KNOW WHETHER IT WAS ON THE CONCOURSE LEVEL OR THE STREET LEVEL EXACTLY BUT WE CAME THROUGH WHAT WAS REVOLVING DOOR AND IT BRINGS
YOU INTO THE NORTH TOWER REMEMBER SEEING IN FRONT OF ME WE WALKED FEW FEET AND THERE WAS SMALL ESCALATOR TWO ESCALATORS COMING DOWN OFF OF ANOTHER LEVEL AND THERE WERE DOZENS AND DOZENS OF OFFICE
WORKERS STREAMING DOWN THIS THERE WAS PORT
AUTHORITY DONT KNOW IF THEY WERE PORT AUTHORITY
BUT DEFINITELY BUILDING SECURITY GUARDS THERE WITH GRAY BLAZERS ON AND LITTLE EAR PIECES THEY WERE STILL
DIRECTING LOT OF PEOPLE DOWN THESE ESCALATORS THEY WERENT DIRECTING THEM OUT ONTO THE STREET REMEMBER
13

MURPHY
THAT NOW BECAUSE WHEN CAME THROUGH THE PLAZA THERE WERENT PEOPLE THERE WERENT CIVILIANS WALKING
THROUGH THE PLAZA
RIGHT IN FRONT OF US WERE THESE ESCALATORS
NOW WE ARE MOVING AS WHOLE GROUP GUESS FOUR COMPANIES SO IT WAS GOOD AMOUNT OF GUYS WE CAME INTO THE LOBBY AND TO OUR LEFT IS THE CORE WE WALK UP AND COME TO THE CORE OF THE BUILDING WHICH AGAIN
ASSUME IT WAS THE SOUTH TOWER BUT IT WASNT TO OUR IMMEDIATE LEFT IS TURNSTILES LIKE
TURNSTILES THERE WAS SECURITY GUARD HE GOES OKAY GUYS YOU GOT TO COME THROUGH HERE SO PEOPLE WERE EXITING GUESS FROM STAIRCASE INSIDE THEY WERE COMING OUT THESE TURNSTILES AND WE HAD TO GO THROUGH LIKE ONE WENT TO TRY ANOTHER ONE TO SEE IF WE COULD GET THROUGH BUT IT WAS ONLY ONE THAT WAS LIKE
REVERSED WE ALL WENT KEPT GOING THROUGH JUST
BUNCH OF US WENT THROUGH IN FRONT OF ME WAS
WHAT WOULD CALL AN ELEVATOR BANK HAVE BEEN IN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER FEW TIMES ON MY OWN
AND HAVE BEEN ON THESE ELEVATORS SO IM NOT FAMILIAR WITH THEM BUT KIND OF KNOW THE SET UP
TO MY IMMEDIATE LEFT IS BANK IF HAD TO GUESS WOULD SAY IT WAS MAYBE 75 80 FEET LONG IT
HALLWAY
SECURITY
14

MURPHY
WAS PRETTY LONG ELEVATOR BANK AND IT WAS BIG SKY
LOBBY ELEVATORS THEY WERE LIKE FLOOR TO CEILING THE ONES THAT HOLD DONT KNOW 60 70 PEOPLE THERE WAS TREMENDOUS DAMAGE IN THE LOBBY THERE WAS ALREADY
THAT WERE FALLEN OR CRACKED LOT OF
STRUCTURAL WALL DAMAGE AND CEILING DAMAGE THAT COULD SEE THERE WAS ALSO ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE INCHES OF WATER ON THE FLOOR
REMEMBER THAT STRUCK ME AT THE TIME BECAUSE REMEMBER SEEING ALL THESE OFFICE WORKERS AND
CIVILIANS LEAVING REMEMBER SEEING WOMENS FEET LIKE THEY WERE IN SHOES OR SOMETHING OR SOME DIDNT EVEN
HAVE THEIR SHOES ANY MORE AND THEY WERE TRUDGING THROUGH THIS WATER AT THE END OF THIS ELEVATOR LOBBY THERE WAS IT JUST LOOKED TO ME LIKE SOMETHING HAD
THINGS
DONT REMEMBER HOW HEARD IT OR WHO SAID IT BUT SOMEONE SAID THINK AN ELEVATOR WHEN THE
PLANE HIT IT SEVERED THE ELEVATOR CABLE AND IT CAME ALL THE WAY DOWN AND CRASHED DONT KNOW HUNDRED
PERCENT IF THATS WHAT HAPPENED BUT IT LOOKED TO ME LIKE THAT COULD HAVE BEEN TRUE IT LOOKED LIKE SOMETHING HAD FALLEN DOWN HIT AND LIKE EXPLODED OUT
MEAN THE WHOLE AREA AROUND IT WAS MAYBE 25 30 FEET
OF REALLY SEVERE DAMAGE BUT DIDNT GET CLOSE ENOUGH
EXPLODED
15

MURPHY
TO SEE EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS IT JUST SEEMED THAT WAY BEFORE WE EVEN GOT THAT FAR DOWN WE TURNED TO
OUR RIGHT AND THERE IS OTHER LOCAL ELEVATOR BANKS TO THE RIGHT SO YOU ARE IN THIS HALLWAY ON THE LEFT IS THE BIG ELEVATORS AND ON THE RIGHT IS THE SMALL ELEVATOR BANKS WITH ELEVATOR CARS IN EACH WE MAYBE WENT DOWN ABOUT 30 40 FEET AND THERE WAS STAIRWELL
WHERE PEOPLE WERE EXITING JUST PAST THIS ELEVATOR BANK AND WE WENT INTO THIS ELEVATOR BANK AND THESE
OTHER COMPANIES THAT WE WERE GOING TO OPERATE WITH WE WERE LIKE THE LAST ONES BEHIND THEM SO THEY WERE
ALREADY IN THIS LITTLE ELEVATOR BANK
REMEMBER THINKING LOOKED AT THE
ELEVATORS AND STILL WASNT FEELING GOOD ABOUT THEM BECAUSE THE DAMAGE THAT SPOKE ABOUT WAS MORE SEVERE
OR AT LEAST UP CLOSE GOT TO SEE IT THERE WERE PIECES OF MARBLE LIKE ORNAMENTAL MARBLE GUESS ON
THE WALLS THAT WERE MAYBE FOOT BY FOOT PIECES
MAYBE EVEN LITTLE BIGGER THAT HAD SPLIT AND CRACKED AND SOME HAD ACTUALLY FALLEN THERE WAS COUPLE THAT
HAD FALLEN ONTO THE LOBBY THIS LITTLE LOBBY FLOOR SOME OF THE DOORS THEY WERE SILVER COLORED
ELEVATOR DOORS AND THEY WERE ALMOST LIKE HANGING OUT OF PLUMB THEY JUST DIDNT LOOK RIGHT BUT THERE WAS ONE
16

MURPHY
ELEVATOR HAD THE ELEVATOR KEY AT THIS POINT NOW
WE ARE WITH ENGINE 21 KNOW ON THE LIST IT SAID TO
MENTION COMPANIES YOU SAW AND PEOPLE YOU KNOW SAW
CAPTAIN BILLY BURKE AND HE WAS THE OFFICER AND CAPTAIN
IN ENGINE 21 THAT DAY NOW FEW GUYS WERE SAYING WHO
IS MAKING THE CALL ON THIS ELEVATOR IT WAS TWO
CAPTAINS AND TWO LIEUTENANTS AND THOUGHT HEARD DONT KNOW IF OUR LIEUTENANT OR SOMEBODY ELSE SAID IT
COUPLE OF THE SENIOR GUYS WERE SAYING YOU KNOW WHO IS MAKING THIS CALL
BELIEVE BILLY BURKE SAID WELL WE ARE GOING TO TEST IT FIRST AND SEE IF IT WORKS BEFORE WE COMMIT
TO IT BELIEVE HIM AND ANOTHER PERSON GOT IN IT
WAS ONE ELEVATOR AS YOU LOOKED DOWN THIS BANK THERE WERE ON THE LEFT AND ON THE RIGHT IT WAS THE SECOND ELEVATOR IN ON THE LEFT IF YOU WENT DOWN TO THE END ITS KIND OF LIKE DEAD END REMEMBER THERE WAS ACTUALLY IT WAS STRANGE THERE WAS LITTLE MARBLE THING WITH FLOWERS ON IT AND THE FLOWERS WERE STILL STANDING WHICH AMAZED ME BECAUSE EVERYTHING ELSE HAD BEEN CRASHED DOWN AROUND IT
HE GOT IN THE ELEVATOR THEY PUT THE 1620
KEY IN THEY WERE HAVING LITTLE TROUBLE WITH THE ONE ACROSS BUT THAT ONE WENT IN THEY DISAPPEARED FOR
17

MURPHY
MAYBE WOULD SAY 10 15 SECONDS SOMETHING LIKE THAT IT WASNT VERY LONG AND THEY CAME BACK AND OH ELEVATOR DOORS OPENED UP NO PROBLEM THEY SAID ITS WORKING SO WE PROCEEDED NOW AT THIS POINT TO START PUTTING GEAR AND COMPANIES INTO THE ELEVATORS THEY WERE TAKING THEM TO 24
AT THIS POINT GUESS DONT KNOW THE EXACT ORDER BUT KNOW THAT 21 WAS PRETTY MUCH GONE
MOST OF 22 AND MOST OF 13 SO WOULD SAY THERE WERE PROBABLY ABOUT THREE ELEVATOR TRIPS THEY COME DOWN
AND THERE IS GUY THE CAPTAIN FROM 13 AGAIN SAYS CAN YOU 47 GIVE ME ONE OF YOUR GUYS HE WILL COME UP
WITH US AND HE WILL COME BACK DOWN AND GET YOU GUYS
SO WE WERE GOING TO BE THE LAST ONES WE ARE
IN THE LOBBY AND OUR CONTROL MAN WAS
HAVE LITTLE OVER SIX YEARS ON HIM HE HAS MAYBE
THREE THE OFFICER TOLD HIM HE DIDNT WANT HIM TO GO HE SENT OUR GUY WITH ABOUT 20 YEARS ON TOLD HIM TO
TAKE THE RADIO AND GO TAKE THE ELEVATOR AND THEN COME BACK AND GET US
SO AT THIS POINT HE GETS IN THE ELEVATOR WITH THE ONE GUY BELIEVE IT WAS THIS IS WHERE IM
LITTLE CONFUSED BECAUSE KNOW FROM HIS STORY LATER THAT HE IS JUST WITH ONE GUY NO NO NO IM
YOUNG GUY
18

MURPHY
INCORRECT WANT TO TAKE THAT BACK HE ACTUALLY IS WITH 13 HE GOES UP THEY ARE ABOUT TO EXIT THE
ELEVATOR FIND OUT LATER AND HE IS WITH ONE OTHER
GUY WHO WAS GOING TO COME BACK DOWN WITH HIM THE TWO
OF THEM ENDED UP STAYING TOGETHER AS TEAM WE ARE IN THE LOBBY WAITING FOR THE
ELEVATOR PUT MY ROLL UP WE STILL HAD OUR ROLL
UPS PUT IT DOWN ON THE FLOOR NEXT TO ME KIND OF PROPPED UP BECAUSE THERE WAS WATER ON THE FLOOR WAS STANDING KIND OF ON THE EDGE OF WHERE OUR ELEVATOR BANK MET THE BIG ELEVATOR BANK THAT WAS WHEN THE
DETERMINED THATS WHEN THE NORTH TOWER COLLAPSES WE ARE STANDING THERE AND THE FIRST THING THAT HAPPENED WHICH STILL THINK IS STRANGE TO ME THE LIGHTS WENT OUT COMPLETELY PITCH BLACK SINCE WE WERE IN THAT CORE LITTLE AREA OF THE BUILDING THERE WAS NO NATURAL LIGHT NO NOTHING DIDNT SEE THING
HAD HEARD RIGHT BEFORE THE LIGHTS WENT OUT HAD HEARD DISTANT BOOM BOOM BOOM SOUNDED LIKE
THREE EXPLOSIONS DONT KNOW WHAT IT WAS AT THE TIME WOULD HAVE SAID THEY SOUNDED LIKE BOMBS BUT IT
WAS BOOM BOOM BOOM AND THEN THE LIGHTS ALL GO OUT
HEAR SOMEONE SAY OH SHIT THAT WAS JUST FOR THE LIGHTS OUT WOULD SAY ABOUT SECONDS ALL OF SUDDEN
19

MURPHY
THIS TREMENDOUS ROAR IT SOUNDED LIKE BEING IN
TUNNEL WITH THE TRAIN COMING AT YOU IT SOUNDED LIKE
NOTHING HAD EVER HEARD IN MY LIFE BUT IT DIDNT SOUND GOOD ALL OF SUDDEN COULD FEEL THE FLOOR STARTED TO SHAKE AND SWAY WE WERE BEING THROWN LIKE LITERALLY OFF OUR FEET SIDE TO SIDE GETTING BANGED AROUND AND THEN TREMENDOUS WIND STARTED TO HAPPEN
IT PROBABLY LASTED MAYBE 15 SECONDS 10 TO 15 SECONDS IT SEEMED LIKE HURRICANE FORCE WIND IT WOULD BLOW YOU OFF YOUR FEET AND SMOKE AND DEBRIS AND MORE THINGS STARTED FALLING
AT THIS POINT GOT HIT IN THE HEAD WITH SOMETHING THINK IT CAME OFF THE CEILING IM NOT SURE BUT IN ANY EVENT ENDED UP KNOCKED DOWN MY HELMET STAYED ON AND LANDED ON TOP OF ONE OF THE OTHER GUYS THAT WORK WITH EVERYTHING WAS STILL SHAKING AND BLOWING THROUGH STILL DONT KNOW DONT THINK BLACKED OUT THEY ASKED ME THAT BUT DONT RECALL BLACKING OUT BECAUSE KNOW IT WAS ONLY COUPLE OF SECONDS LATER AND FELT NOW KIND OF EVERYTHING STOP
MY INITIAL REACTION WAS THESE BASTARDS WHOEVER THEY WERE BECAUSE NOW IM THINKING TERROR THEY GOT US WITH ANOTHER PLANE BECAUSE OUT IN THE
20

MOVING
ABOUT
AT THIS POINT FISHED AROUND AND BREATHING
MURPHY
STREET THE COPS THEY KEPT SAYING THERE IS THIS THIRD
INBOUND PLANE SO IM THINKING WE JUST GOT HIT WITH ANOTHER PLANE THATS IT
THE FIRST THING IM THINKING IS THAT IM DEAD BECAUSE DIDNT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO ME THOUGHT WAS DEAD THEN KIND OF STARTED FEELING LIKE OKAY THINK IM HERE THEN THOUGHT THOUGHT WE DIED TOGETHER WAS SURE EVERYONE WAS DEAD THAT WAS
WITH THEN STARTED TO HEAR THEM KIND OF GROANING AND
WAS HORRIBLE THERE WAS SO MUCH DEBRIS AND SMOKE ACTUALLY MY MASK WAS ACTIVATED OPENED THE
CYLINDER EARLIER
HOSE AND
PUT IT ON
WAS IN IT
WAS JUST EVEN MORE STUFF THAT WAS IN MY MASK THAT SUCKED IN AND ACTUALLY FINALLY GOT SOME AIR AND USED THAT FOR MAYBE MINUTE OR TWO
AT THIS POINT THE OTHER FOUR GUYS THREE GUYS WERE COMING TO THEIR FEET SO IT WAS THE
OFFICER THE THREE OF US AND THAT ONE GUY WHO HAD BEEN IN THE ELEVATOR WHO WE DONT SEE NOW THE OFFICER SAID
KIND OF MY FACE
GRABBED THE HOSE THE LOW PRESSURE CRUNCHED IT TO ME AND ACTUALLY
UNFORTUNATELY DIDNT SEE WHAT PUT THAT ON MY FACE AND INHALED AND IT
21

MURPHY
ACTUALLY AM LAUGHING NOW LOOKING BACK HE WANTED US TO COUNT OFF HE MEANT ROLL CALL KIND OF KNEW
IN ALL THAT WAS GOING ON HE MEANT ROLL CALL SO WE STARTED YELLING OUR NAMES IM MURPHY AND THE OTHER TWO GUYS ARE SAYING THEIR NAMES KIND OF ALL GATHER TOGETHER AND ASKING HOW EVERYONE IS ONE GUY STEVE HE GOT HIT TOO AND HE LOST HIS HELMET
MINE HAD STAYED ON DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO IT LATER ENDED UP WITHOUT HELMET BUT
DONT KNOW WHERE HAD IT ON INITIALLY DONT KNOW WHERE THIS THING WENT WE LOOKED AROUND WE KIND OF SHOULD NOT SAY LOOKED BECAUSE YOU COULDNT SEE ANYTHING BUT WE KNEW THAT STEVE WAS MISSING HIS
HELMET WE KIND OF FELT AROUND THE FLOOR WHERE WE WERE AND THERE WASNT ANYTHING THINK OUR OFFICER
ACTUALLY GAVE HIM HIS HELMET IF RECALL CORRECTLY
NOW
HE TOLD US HE GOES ALL RIGHT WHO IS HURT IS ANYBODY HURT SAID HE WAS THE ONLY ONE WITH THE RADIO AND HE HADNT HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT COLLAPSE NOTHING THAT WAS ONE THING FORGOT TO MENTION
BEFORE WHEN WE GOT INTO THE LOBBY CHIEF GALVIN TOLD EVERYONE WITH RADIOS TO SWITCH TO CHANNEL THAT WAS WHERE HE IS ON CHANNEL HE SAYS IS ANYBODY HURT
22

MURPHY
THE OTHER GUY STEVE HE COULDNT EVEN BARELY SAY HIS NAME
SAID HURT SAID SOMETHING SAID DONT KNOW WHAT DID SAID MY NECK GOT HIT IN
THE HEAD MY NECK DONT KNOW WHATS WRONG HE SAID ALL RIGHT WE ARE GOING TO GET YOU TWO OUT OF HERE
DONT KNOW WHERE WE WERE AT THIS
WHERE WE WERE WAS WHERE WE STARTED BUT HE HAD HIS
OFFICERS HAND LIGHT AND HE SAID EACH OF YOU GRAB ONTO EACH OTHER WE WILL GO OUT IN KIND OF LIKE CHAIN
HE SAYS KNOW THE WAY CAN GET US OUT OF HERE SO WE STARTED TO FOLLOW HIM AND SOME PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN
COMING OFF THE STAIRCASE THAT WAS RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER FROM US MAYBE ABOUT TEN FEET AWAY HAD JOINED
US CIVILIANS
FELT LIKE WAS THE LAST ONE OF US FOUR IM NOT SURE BUT KNOW THERE WERE OTHER PEOPLE WHO
WERE NOT FIREMEN WHO WERE KIND OF GRABBING ONTO MY COAT
AND WE JUST STARTED TO PROCEED AND YOU COULD SEE FOOT IN FRONT OF YOU IF THAT VISIBILITY
REMEMBER EVERYTHING STINGING YOUR EYES AND LUNGS
STINGING LIKE CRAZY
HE WALKED OUT WHICH FOUND OUT LATER
FOUND OUT LATER THAT WAS NOW WHERE THE SECURITY
MAYBE
WERE
WHICH
POINT
23

MURPHY
TURNSTILES WERE HAD WONDERED SAID OH BOY DONT REMEMBER CLIMBING OVER THESE THINGS BUT THERE WAS ACTUALLY LIKE MIDDLE PART LIKE BAR THAT WAS APPARENTLY GONE NOW OR HAD BEEN MOVED BECAUSE HE SAID HE WALKED STRAIGHT THROUGH THAT HE TURNED RIGHT AND WE CONTINUED TO FOLLOW HIM ALSO FROM CLARIFYING
WITH HIM LATER THOUGHT HE COULD SEE THINGS SAID HOW DID YOU GET US OUT HE SAYS WELL KEPT WALKING AND THEN HIT THE WALL SAID OH OKAY APPARENTLY HE HITS THIS WALL AND KNOWS TO MAKE ANOTHER TURN
RIGHT
WE DIDNT GO BACK INTO THE MARRIOTT WHERE WE HAD COME OUT WE KIND OF WE BASICALLY MADE LIKE
TURN AROUND THAT ELEVATOR BANK THAT DESCRIBED NOW WE STARTED TO WALK WHICH TURNS OUT TOWARDS WEST
STREET AND IN THE FAR DISTANCE MAYBE 100 FEET AWAY STARTED TO SEE NOT LIGHT BUT LIGHTENING OF THIS CLOUD THAT WE HAD BEEN ENVELOPED IN IN THE DARKNESS
WE STARTED TO HEAR PEOPLE YELLING THIS WAY THIS WAY
IT WAS NOW IT STARTED TO BECOME LITTLE CLEARER AND ALL THE WINDOWS AND THINK THEY WERE ALREADY BLOWN OUT FROM THE INITIAL IMPACT THE FIRST TWO STORIES OR
MAYBE THREE STORIES OF THE TRADE CENTER HAS BIGGER WINDOWS AND THERE WAS NO WINDOWS IT WAS ALL SHATTERED
24

MURPHY
IN BETWEEN THE COLUMNS
WE GOT TO THE EDGE THERE WAS LOT OF US
AND CIVILIANS AND NOW IM STARTING TO SEE SOME OTHER FIREMEN WE GOT TO THIS WINDOW AND THERE WAS LIKE
BANNISTER KIND OF IN FRONT OF IT OR GUESS IT WAS HANDRAIL MAYBE YOU COULD EITHER KIND OF CLIMB OVER IT
OR CRAWL UNDER IT SO IM LITTLE SHORT SAID LET ME GO UNDER SO CRAWLED UNDER AND ACTUALLY GOT
SMALL BURN ON MY HAND GOING OUT BECAUSE ENDED UP
CRAWLING OVER PUTTING MY HAND ON REALLY HOT BEAM OR SOMETHING THAT HAD FALLEN COLLAPSED DOWN OR FALLEN
OUT
NOW WE MERGED ONTO THE PLAZA GUESS IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING AND IT WAS COMPLETELY THERE WAS
DEBRIS EVERYWHERE IT WAS LIKE GRAY IT STARTED LIGHTENING UP BUT IT LOOKED LIKE GRAY SNOW STORM AND THERE WAS INCHES AND INCHES OF THIS POWDER AND DUST ON EVERYTHING REMEMBER SEEING CHIEFS CAR NOT TOO
FAR OUT WHEN WE GOT OUT ONTO THE STREET COMPLETELY LIKE
IT WAS STILL INTACT BUT EVERYTHING IN THE WINDOWS WERE GONE COMPLETELY BLOWN OUT AND IT WAS JUST KIND OF
LIKE IF HAD TO DESCRIBE IT WOULD SAY EVERYONE IS JUST KIND OF LIKE WALKING WOUNDED MEAN YOU WERE JUST LOOKING AROUND PEOPLE WERE ALMOST IN TRANCES
25

MURPHY
REMEMBER SEEING AT THIS POINT NOW STARTED TO HEAR PASS ALARMS IT DIDNT REGISTER IN MY
HEAD WHAT IT WAS HEARD PASS ALARMS NEVER REALLY HEARD ANY RADIO TRAFFIC BUT UNDERSTAND THERE WERE
LOT OF MAYDAYS BEING CALLED
THE OFFICER SAID ALL RIGHT IM GOING TO GET
YOU GUYS TO AN AMBULANCE THE TWO OF US WERE HURT REMEMBER WE WERE PASSING FIREMEN REMEMBER SEEING FIREMEN CARRYING CIVILIANS OVER THEIR SHOULDERS REMEMBER SEEING OTHER CIVILIANS CARRYING PEOPLE COULDNT TELL IF THEY WERE DEAD OR ALIVE BUT THERE WERE PEOPLE EVERYWHERE TRYING TO JUST GET AWAY WE ENDED UP CROSSING WEST STREET SO WE PROBABLY CAME OUT
WOULD SAY WE CAME OUT OF THE NORTH TOWER AND AGAIN STILL THINK IM IN THE SOUTH TOWER BUT KNOW NOW
FROM THE MAP PIECING IT TOGETHER WE CAME OUT OF THE NORTH TOWER THROUGH LIKE LOBBY WINDOWS OVER THE PLAZA
ONTO WEST STREET
WE CROSSED WEST STREET CAME UP THE OTHER
SIDE OF THE HIGHWAY AND WE WERE KIND OF IN THE
ADJACENT TO THIS WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER WE PASSED
THIS WINTER GARDEN AND WE WENT UP UNDERNEATH THIS OTHER
PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE THE NORTH PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE AND WE GOT TO THE CORNER OF VESEY AND WEST ON THAT BLOCK WAS
26

MURPHY
BUNCH OF AMBULANCES IF HAD TO GUESS NUMBER WOULD SAY THERE WERE TEN AMBULANCES THERE
SO THE OFFICER AN EMT NOT REGULAR FD GUY THINK HE HAD LIKE GOLF SHIRT ON HE SAID WHO NEEDS
HELP WHO NEEDS HELP THE OFFICER SAID GOT TWO GUYS HERE THAT ARE HURT HE SAID ALL RIGHT DONT HAVE MY
AMBULANCE BUT HAVE AN AMBULANCE COULD TREAT THEM AND WILL GET THEM OUT OF HERE WE WALKED MAYBE
AROUND THREE OR FOUR AMBULANCES DOWN AND HE PUT US IN
AN AMBULANCE REMEMBER SOMEONE RUNNING OVER TO ME AT THIS POINT ANOTHER FIREMAN DONT KNOW WHERE HE CAME FROM OR WHAT BUT HE TOOK MY MASK SLID IT OFF MY BACK OR WHATEVER AND HE TOOK MY MASK AND HE
DISAPPEARED SAT DOWN IN THE BACK OF THE AMBULANCE AND NOW THE OFFICER AND THE OTHER GUY WHO WASNT HURT SAID ALL RIGHT WE ARE GOING BACK TO GET THE OTHER GUY WHO WAS OUR CONTROL MAN NOW IN THE ELEVATOR
AT THIS POINT THE OFFICER APPARENTLY HEARD ENOUGH GUESS ON THE RADIO INITIALLY HE DIDNT HEAR ABOUT THE COLLAPSE BUT OUT IN THE STREET HE MUST HAVE HEARD ABOUT THE COLLAPSE HE KNEW IT WAS COLLAPSED DIDNT KNOW THE BUILDING EVEN COLLAPSED AT THIS POINT LOOKING BACK NOW THE SOUND THE NOISE EVERYTHING
ITS THE ONLY THING THAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED BUT STILL
27

MURPHY
NOT REALIZING IM THINKING ITS THIS PLANE CRASH
HE SITS ME DOWN IM IN THE AMBULANCE NOW
START TO REALIZE ABOUT OUR OTHER GUYS SAID NO NO IM ALL RIGHT WANT TO GO BACK HE MADE ME SIT DOWN AGAIN HE SAID YOU ARE DONE YOU ARE NOT GOING BACK
KIND OF HAD TEARS IN MY EYES SAID WE GOT TO GET
LOUIE HE GOES WE ARE GOING BACK TOGETHER HE GOES SIT DOWN YOU GOT TO GET TREATED AND GET OUT OF HERE
IM LOOKING AT AND HIM AND HE GOES MURF THE TOWER JUST FELL DOWN AND YOU ARE ALIVE YOU GOT TO GET OUT OF HERE REMEMBER LOOKING AT HIM LIKE THE TOWER FELL DOWN HE GOES THE TOWER IS DOWN ITS GONE
WAS STUNNED WAS STUNNED BECAUSE THOUGHT WE WERE IN THE TOWER THAT COLLAPSED SO THAT WAS EVEN MORE STUNNING AND JUST COULDNT BELIEVE IT
HE AND THE OTHER GUY LEFT THE TWO OF US THERE
AND SAID THEY WERE GOING TO GO BACK TO FIND LOUIE OUR OTHER GUY SO THE EMT AT THAT POINT NOW STARTED
TREATING ME AND THE OTHER GUY STEVE GAVE US BOTH OXYGEN GAVE ME NECK COLLAR HE SAID LISTEN WANT TO GET YOU OUT OF HERE BUT THIS STREET ITS BLOCKED YOU KNOW THERE WAS NOTHING MOVING WE MUST HAVE BEEN ON THE SCENE BECAUSE REMEMBER THE OXYGEN ACTUALLY RAN OUT WOULD SAY WE WERE GOOD 15 MINUTES MAYBE
28

20 MINUTES
MURPHY
WE STARTED TO MOVE BELIEVE WE WERE GOING WEST ON VESEY STREET KIND OF TOWARDS THE BATTERY PARK CITY AREA SO ALL OF SUDDEN THE AMBULANCE THE EMT
ITS JUST HIM AND THE TWO OF US IN THE BACK HE JAMS ON THE BRAKES AND THE AMBULANCE STOPS SHORT HE WASNT GOING FAST HE WAS ONLY GOING COUPLE OF MILES AN HOUR HE SAID GUYS WE GOT TO GET OUT OF HERE JUST
GET OUT OF THIS AMBULANCE HE RUNS TO THE BACK POPS OPEN THE DOORS AND IM LOOKING AROUND LIKE WHATS GOING ON
THE OTHER GUY WAS WITH HAD KIND OF COME LITTLE MORE TO NOW AND HE JUST GRABBED ME AND HE SAID
WE GOT TO GET OUT OF HERE AS WE JUMP OUT THE BACK THE OTHER TOWER IS STARTING TO FALL THE NORTH TOWER NOW AT THIS POINT ITS VERY HAZY IN THE SKY FROM ALL THE
SMOKE BUT YOU COULD STILL MAKE OUT FROM OUR VANTAGE POINT THE LOWER PORTION OF THE NORTH TOWER YOU CANT
SEE REALLY HIGH UP SO THAT WHOLE THING STARTS COLLAPSING AGAIN
WE RAN DIDNT SEE THE AMBULANCE DRIVER AGAIN BUT THE TWO OF US RAN WEST DOWN VESEY STREET AND
LOT OF PEOPLE THINK WENT TO THE LEFT SAW OTHER PEOPLE IN THE STREET SOME PEOPLE ENDED UP GOING LEFT
29

MURPHY
WHICH THINK FOUND OUT THEY ENDED UP GOING ON BOATS
TO JERSEY OR SOMETHING WE WENT NORTH RIPPED OFF MY NECK COLLAR WE WERE RUNNING THOUGHT WE WERE
ACTUALLY GOING TO END UP IN THE WATER BECAUSE WE WERE HEADING TOWARDS BATTERY PARK THERE IS KIND OF LIKE AN
ESPLANADE RIGHT ON THE WATER
WE ENDED UP OVER THERE AND AT THIS POINT WE
KIND OF THE BUILDINGS WERE KIND OF BUFFERING
EVERYTHING THAT WAS COMING AROUND US SO WE WERE OUT OF THE MAIN CLOUD AND WE JUST STARTED WALKING IM LIKE WHATS GOING ON WHATS GOING ON HE GOES DONT
KNOW WE JUST GOT TO GET OUT OF HERE WE ENDED UP COMING OUT NORTH OF CHAMBERS STREET WHICH IS
STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL THERE WAS ANOTHER BRIDGE
ACROSS THE HIGHWAY WE CAME OUT NORTH OF THERE REMEMBER LYING DOWN THE LAST THING DID THERE WAS LIE DOWN LIKE IN THE MIDDLE OF WEST STREET THERE
AT THAT POINT THERE WERE TONS OF AMBULANCES AND THERE WERE PEOPLE STAGGERING ALL OVER AND THEY
ENDED UP TREATING US THERE SO THAT WAS ESSENTIALLY WHERE LEFT WELL DIDNT LEAVE THE SCENE YET IT TOOK PROBABLY ABOUT ANOTHER HALF AN HOUR BEFORE WE FINALLY ENDED UP IN AN AMBULANCE THAT GOT US TO SAINT VINCENTS BUT UP UNTIL THAT POINT THATS KIND OF FROM
30

MURPHY
THE RESPONSE TO WHERE HOTH TOWERS WERE DOWN
WOULD SAY THATS PRETTY MUCH THE STORY
OKAY JUST TO GET IT STRAIGHT ALL THAT TIME YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE IN THE NORTH TOWER BUT YOU WERE YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE IN THE SOUTH TOWER BUT YOU WERE IN THE NORTH TOWER
CORRECT YES
BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN IF YOU HAVE NOTHING
ELSE TO ADD THANKS FOR YOUR HELP AND THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW
31
File No. 9110239
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER GERARD CASEY
   Interview Date:  December 5, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
2
          CHIEF BURNS:  Today is the 5th of
     December, 2001.  The time is 3:59 p.m.   I
     am Chief Robert Burns of the Safety
     Battalion conducting an interview with
     Firefighter Second Grade Casey from Ladder
     122 in regard to the events that took place
     on September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   If you would, just tell me in your own
words what happened at the World Trade Center
fire.
     A.   We received the alarm about a quarter
to 9.  We responded to the tunnel with 132, 105,
101 and 131.  101 might have made -- I think 131.
We got stuck in the tunnel for ten minutes.
There was a car with two firefighters.  They
cleared out the left lane, and we finally made it
through the tunnel.
          We were last in line because we were
getting into the tunnel via the service lane, and
105 and 132 were closer in, closer to the tunnel
portals than we were, because we were in the
service lane.  So we ended up behind them.  105
took the front of the north tower.  We went with
132 and I believe 131 or 101, I'm not sure.
3
          We had to pull the rig out.  We had
spots in front of the rig where there were a lot
of bodies and debris in front of us, body parts.
We were in front of the north tower where the
staging area was.
          We positioned the rig up around --
passed the north tower at Vesey Street and we
proceeded to walk towards the north tower at the
staging area, which is in front of the north
tower.  There were two garages directly across
the street from the north tower.
          The incident commander and Ganci,
Feehan was standing there too, divided up the
trucks and the engines, engines on one side of
the garage, trucks on the other side.  We
couldn't go through the front of the north tower
because there were too many bodies on the ground.
          So he wanted us to go to the south
tower, all the truck companies that were in that
garage bay front area, about five truck
companies.  We grabbed extra bottles, proceeded
to the overpass that is next to the Marriott, I
believe, on West Street, and we had to go
underneath the overpass to avoid debris falling
4
from the south tower and bodies.  People were
jumping.
          We made it across there in time to get
into the building.  132, 105 and 101 I saw.  When
we were in the lobby, I saw them.  We were
standing fast in the Marriott lobby.  Close to
the doors where the elevators were in the south
tower was a doorway that leads into the lobby.
          That was the last known positions I
know that I saw them, those companies I mentioned
that were next to us.  I spoke to Vinny Brunton
on the Brooklyn Battery's Brooklyn side.  We
thought we were going to be there all day.  They
were giving us water.  Guys were cooling off.  We
knew we were going up.  We didn't know if we
could take any elevators at that point.  Later on
we found out we were going to go up and walked
up.
          We got the order to move, to go ahead
and go forward.  We started putting our gear on.
Other companies moved up ahead of us maybe 20
feet, 25 feet ahead of us.  There was a short
distance between us, and 131 was behind us,
waiting on us to move.  We were just moving up in
5
the line going in.  I believe 24 Truck was behind
131.  So it was us, 131 and 24 Truck.  In front
of us was 132, 105 and 101.
          We put our gear on, started going
moving forward, and that's when we heard the
rumbling.  Somebody screamed, "The building's
coming down."  I had one shoulder strap on, I
dropped my mask and I turned around and made it
to -- I tried to run towards the restaurant to
get out.
          I didn't get any more than one step and
everything just turned black, and I got pulled
into a corner in there that was still standing.
My helmet came off.  I had a concussion, I
believe.  That was it.  At that point I didn't
think I was going to make it out alive.  I
thought that was it.
          I made noise at the door.  I banged on
the door really loud before guys came to me.  One
guy from 24 Truck was bleeding really bad.  He
had no face piece on his regulator.  I said,
"Let's get this door open."  I put my light on
and I started banging and making a lot of noise.
Other guys came and started lifting up the door.
6
I heard a guy from my company screaming, "I've
got the way out.  It's over here."  I followed
his voice with two other firemen.  I followed his
voice.
          That's pretty much what I remember as
far as locations and locations of the companies
that I saw that were operating.
     Q.   Which tower were you operating in?
     A.   South tower.
     Q.   South tower.
          From there where did you go?  Did you
go to EMS?
     A.   I came out.  I came out of the crater.
The street was gone, the restaurant and
everything was gone.  I saw Koyles and Vitiello.
They were alive.  I saw them and then I turned
around and I couldn't see them.  Walker had come
out.  I turned around and Koyles was gone.  I
don't know where he went.
          I told Vitiello, I said, "Follow me,"
because he's a proby.  Then I turned around and
he was gone.  He walked another way.  I walked up
-- by the overpass was a fire truck there.  There
was a fireman crushed.  There was another guy who
7
was screaming, going crazy.  I walked another 50
feet and there was another guy that was dead.
There were bodies everywhere.
          I walked another like 50 feet.  I was
limping.  I hurt my knee, my back.  My eyes were
closing.  I couldn't see.  I bumped into a guy on
the floor.  I helped him.  He was hurting.  He
was injured bad.  I started walking with him.
Another fireman came over and helped me.
          We just kept walking, and we ended up
at the water marina.  A boat came over, and they
pretty much threw us on the boat.  They said,
"You guys are banged up.  Get on the boat."  And
that was it.
     Q.   Okay, Jerry, thanks for the interview.
          CHIEF BURNS:  It's 4:06 p.m.   This is
     the end of the interview.
File No. 9110240
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER JOHN PICARELLO
   Interview Date:  December 6, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
                  J. PICARELLO                  2
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Today's date is
     December 6th at approximately 1320 hours.
     My name is Battalion Chief Art Lakiotes from
     the safety command.  I'm here to
     interview --
          FIREFIGHTER PICARELLO:  John Picarello,
     40 Battalion.
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  -- regarding the
     events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   If you can start me off with the
response.  I guess it was you and Chief Henry.
     A.   Right.  We responded from quarters with
some units, went down toward Fourth Avenue.  Our
original assignment was to a staging area on the
Brooklyn side of the Battery Tunnel.  We reached
somewhere around the tunnel when the second plane
hit.  The second plane hadn't hit yet.  So it was
right about that time the second plane hit.
          The tunnel was a mess.  They were
trying to clear it for the rest of the emergency
vehicles and everybody else and their mother
trying to get out of the city.
          I went through the tunnel, made a right
out of the tunnel onto West Street and went up as
                  J. PICARELLO                  3
far as I could.  I dropped off Chief Henry and
his equipment.  Then I backed up to get the
vehicle out of the middle of the street and
parked it by West and Rector on West Street just
short of Rector Street.
     Q.   Here's a map.  That may help you a
little bit.
     A.   Okay.  That's where I parked, by Rector
Street.
          So I got out and suited up and told
Chief Henry I'd meet up with him.
          After parking it, I walked along West
Street up to about Liberty, just a little past I
guess it's the south bridge, the one that's by
Liberty.  I was there for a few minutes, just
like everybody else, just looking up at the two
gaping holes, looking at the towers, debris
falling.
          I remember in particular my attention
was on the north tower, just watching jumpers and
people falling.  I don't know much about the
south tower, the huge hole.  My attention I just
know was mostly toward the north tower.
          After a few minutes walking underneath
                  J. PICARELLO                  4
that south bridge, just because of the debris
that was coming down, I made my way into the
lobby of the hotel through the corner.  There's a
bar and grill or something there.
     Q.   Tall Ships?
     A.   I don't remember the name of it.  I do
remember that's where I entered.  There was some
EMS workers taking people out, swapping helmets
with people so they can get across the street.  I
went through there, and walking through there you
can go through a double doorway into the lobby.
          So I got into the lobby of the hotel.
There were some other guys there, the Fire
Department, police, EMS.  I always said there had
to be about a hundred people.  That's what I
said, in my estimation.  There were a lot of
people there.
          I walked through the lobby and got to
about, I'd say, maybe halfway through to the
center of it, met up with Chief Henry.  There was
another chief there.  I wasn't sure exactly if he
was a deputy or acting deputy.  I wasn't sure.
He was giving out assignments.
          So it was me and Chief Henry.  There
                  J. PICARELLO                  5
were two other guys to my left, and there was
Chief Stack on my right.  I just remember looking
up and seeing Safety Battalion.  I never met him
before.  That was the first time I met him.  So
there was a group of us.
          Our assignment was either the 70th or
the 75th floor of the north tower.  They gave us
some units that Chief Henry had, so I didn't have
them, and said some of them already started up
and just meet up with them and go as far as you
could.
          I'd say we were there just maybe a
couple of minutes.  We took a couple of steps --
          (Interruption.)
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Okay.  We're
     continuing with the tape.  We stopped it
     momentarily to answer the phone.
     Q.   John, you said you're in the lobby now.
You saw Chief Stack with Chief Henry, and you
were assigned to go to the 75th floor.  Some of
the units had already started up.  You go?
     A.   Yeah.  We go meet up with them.
          So we were there a few minutes, and we
started to walk, make our way through the lobby
                  J. PICARELLO                  6
to the other side.  I'd say we got maybe ten
steps.  We didn't go very far.  I heard sort of
like a rumbling sound.  We stopped, looked at
each other, and took off.
          We just took off away from the doors.
Instead of running out, we ran to our right,
which would be toward the walls.  It just
happened really quick.  I just remember running.
Stack was in front of me.  Henry went to my left
with the other guys.
          In about a second or two, you just
heard like a ba-ba-ba-boom, and everything just
came down and everything was pitch-black.  I
landed on top of Stack, and we were both in the
corner by the wall.  Everything was just quiet,
pitch-black, quiet I guess for a few seconds or
so, I would imagine.
          We got up.  Stack had gotten up.  He
didn't have his helmet.  He looked like he was
trying to get out of his turnout.  He got out of
his turnout.  He asked me to give him a hand with
it.  He pulled on it, pulled out his flashlight,
and it was half under the wall.  So the wall we
were against probably shifted.  His turnout was
                  J. PICARELLO                  7
under the wall, so we just left it.
          Then we started hearing some guys
calling.  Chief Henry was trying to call outside
on the handy talky.  Nobody was responding.  It
was almost like it was dead.  You could hear
nothing on the handy talkies, but you could hear
some muffled sounds, both guys calling for units
and some guys calling for help.
          About three or four feet behind me,
when I stood up and Stack stood up, from ceiling
to floor was all collapsed down, so we were cut
off from the rest of the lobby.  I couldn't see
too far in front of us, but I could see debris
all over the place.
          Immediately to our right was the wall
that we were against.  I don't know, it looked
like a coat check.  That's the best I can make
out of it.  In there I could see debris probably
shoulder high, and I could see the wall was open
on the other side of that.  You could see that it
was collapsed.
          Right to my right also there was a guy
yelling for help.  I found out later -- I don't
know if he was an officer or what, but I do know
                  J. PICARELLO                  8
that he made it out.  But he was buried.  It
looked like he was in a wall.  I don't know if it
was in a hallway, but it looked like he was in a
wall.
          So there were a few of us, I'd say
three or four of us, trying to dig him out,
throwing stuff, chairs and everything, I would
say maybe 15 minutes.  It seemed longer, but it
was probably about 15 minutes digging him out.
He came out.  He was able to walk.
     Q.   Firefighter?
     A.   He was a firefighter.
     Q.   You don't have any idea who he was?
     A.   No.  The group I was with right there,
I knew nobody.
     Q.   You had lost Larry?  You had separated
from Larry at this point?
     A.   No, Larry was with me the whole time.
     Q.   Okay.  So the other group, you only
knew Larry?
     A.   Yeah.  It was like we were about two
groups.  After the collapse, I'd say it was
probably maybe 12 to possibly 15 people.  There
was about 12 of us.  But with that there were
                  J. PICARELLO                  9
also some hotel employees that were with us.  It
wasn't only members.
     Q.   Of the 12 or 15 members besides Larry,
did you know anybody else that was there with
you?
A. No.
     Q.   Chief Henry wasn't with you at this
point?
     A.   Chief Henry was with us, yeah.  He
was --
     Q.   Part of the group.  So besides Larry,
Stack and Chief Henry --
     A.   No, I didn't know anybody else.
     Q.   -- you didn't know anybody else?
     A.   No.  I did know there was another
battalion chief there.
     Q.   Big tall guy with gray hair?
     A.   I don't know if he had gray hair.
Everybody had gray hair.
     Q.   I know.  O'Flaherty?
     A.   That's what I found out.  His arm was
messed up.  That's what I remember.  I remember
his arm -- he put his hand in the pocket of his
turnout and he just couldn't use it.  He was
                  J. PICARELLO                 10
there.
     Q.   Chief Downey?  Do you know Chief
Downey?
     A.   I don't know Chief Downey, no.
          I remember after a few minutes digging
this guy out, Henry and one group started ahead
of us.  We felt like a cool breeze in our face,
so we decided just follow that.  They went on
ahead.  So we were a little bit ways behind them
after we got this guy out.
          We started to walk.  We came down to I
guess it was a corner, and there were three doors
on the left.  One was a stairway that went
downstairs.  That was pitch-black.  We didn't
think that was a good option.  There was a
stairway from the stairs next one.
          The next one opened into a corridor
that I thought looked like a service entrance,
because it was cinder block, concrete.  Then
after that there were double doors with an exit
sign.  But we elected just to stay with that
second door because when you opened it up we
could see light all the way down at the end of
the hall.  So we elected to go down there.
                  J. PICARELLO                 11
          At that point I don't know exactly how
many were with us, but I do know there were some
hotel employees.  There was a big heavy guy.  His
leg looked a little mangled.
     Q.   A hotel employee?
     A.   A hotel employee.
          Stack was helping him.  Another one of
the guys was helping him.  We were just sort of
helping him along down that hallway.
     Q.   In reference point, walking north
towards tower one, do you think?
     A.   Okay, the best I can tell is when we
got out, if I could say standing in that lobby
right where we were after the collapse, if to my
left was West Street, let's just say, then it was
sort of in that direction.  It was north, it
would be, towards West Street but a little
towards north.  It was at an angle.
          The hallway that we went down was on
our left, but it did open up onto West Street.
We came to the end of it.  There was an opening.
I don't know if it was a knee wall or originally
it was a window.  I have no idea.  But it did
open up onto West Street.  You could see out onto
                  J. PICARELLO                 12
West Street, nothing but rubble everywhere.
          I remember looking out.  I didn't think
I was on West Street at first, because I thought
there was a building on my left, a big slant,
looked like it was going to come down.  That
looked like it might have been those big pieces
that came down and stuck in West Street.
          Chief Ganci was out there.  So I saw
him.  There were some other members across the
street, and at that point Ganci was waving guys
out, telling them to get out.  So some of the
guys went over -- it was about four feet high.
They went over that, went out across West Street
onto the other side.
          I remember to my left I saw two members
coming toward the building and actually going in.
One guy I don't know.  The second one I do
remember from 10 Truck was Georgie Bachman.
Georgie Bachman was going in.  It almost looked
like a bay or something.  I'm not sure.  I
remember him going in.
          So I stuck my head back in and just
wanted to go over, just head out.  I was just
waiting for a lull in the debris; to then run
across.
J. PICARELLO                 13
          At that point there were two or three
guys who went to our right.  If you're facing
that opening on West Street, to my right there
was another little hallway that went out.  There
was a door at the end of that and a set of stairs
that also went downstairs.
          The guys tried to open that door.  It
opened about maybe six inches, and you could see
there was a ton of debris behind it.  They
couldn't get it open.  They were going to look
for another way out.
          I'm not sure who went down the stairs,
but I believe two members went down the stairs.
I don't know who they were.  They went down those
stairs, looking for another way out.  That's the
point when I got separated from Chief Henry.  So
I don't know which way he went.
          I came back to the area where all of us
were.  They had found a chair for this guy, big
guy.  He was sitting down.  Now we were just
questioning, do we lift him up, get him over the
wall, who wants to go next?
          At that point Ganci was motioning to
                  J. PICARELLO                 14
us, "Come on.  Let's get out."  Stack said that
he'll wait for another two guys who were still
lagging behind and going to come up.  I said,
"I'll wait for them."  He told me, "No, you go
ahead and go."
          So I went over the wall, and Ganci
called me to him.  He had told me that they had
just moved the command post.  He said they're
probably not set up yet, but it's up toward Vesey
Street.
          He wanted me to go to the command post.
He said he wants four trucks if they've got them,
if there's a squad and a rescue available.  He
said just bring them back here as soon as
possible.  He just told me, go ahead, go.
          That's when I left the building, left
Ganci.  I started walking north on West Street.
I remember getting under the north bridge.  I
stopped for a few seconds just to catch my
breath.  I don't know how long I was there,
probably about 30 seconds, I guess.  I started to
walk again.  I don't know how far I walked, just
a little ways, and started to hear that rumbling
sound again.
                  J. PICARELLO                 15
          I looked up, and the first thing I saw
was the aerial on the top of the tower just
rocking one way and rocking the other way, and
all of a sudden there it goes.  So I took off.
          I remember running diagonally.  I ran
across Vesey diagonally to the other side of West
Street.  I do remember making it across Vesey.
The next thing I know, I could feel pressure
behind me.  I could feel all sorts of stuff.  You
could feel it coming.
          I do remember out of the corner of my
eye things started looking grayish and dark.
There was a truck there.  A lot of vehicles were
parked.  There was a truck there.  At that point
I just dove behind the truck --
     Q.   Apparatus?
     A.   No, it wasn't apparatus.  It was a
plain truck.  I don't even remember if it was
either a van or a pickup.  I'm not sure which.  I
saw the front of the truck.
          I dove behind the truck.  Just as I hit
the floor, it was like this black just blew past
me.  It was like a hurricane.  It just blew past.
You could hear stuff breaking and everything.  I
                  J. PICARELLO                 16
just covered up.
          When that stopped, I just remember
opening my eyes and it was pitch-black.  I
couldn't see anything.  I do remember it was just
silence.  You heard nothing, no radio
transmissions, not even a call for help for a
second or two.  Everything was quiet.  I didn't
know, did I get buried or something, whatever.  I
took a breath.  It felt like somebody threw a
handful of sawdust in my mouth.  The whole thing,
vomiting and everything else.
          At that point when it cleared, the
first transmission I heard was Chief Henry
calling me.  So I acknowledged him and told him
that I made it out, I was okay.  He said he made
it out.  He was a little bit pinned under stuff,
but he said, "I can get out of it."  Nothing he
felt was serious.  So I told him "meet up with
you later," because he wasn't sure where he was.
          So at that point I was able to make it
to my feet.  I remember turning around looking
toward where the buildings were.  I don't have to
tell you what it looked like.  It was just a
mess.  The thing that struck me was just looking
                  J. PICARELLO                 17
at the north bridge.  I was just there.  It was
just crushed to the ground, rubble all over the
place.
          The first person I actually saw was
actually Father John Delendick.  He had told me
about Father Judge.
          I made it to an ambulance, got taken
care of a little bit, and just went back to see
whatever it is that I could do.  So I actually
didn't leave the scene until about 12:30, 1:00.
I went to Roosevelt Hospital and came back to the
scene.
     Q.   So the last place you saw Larry
Stack --
     A.   The last place I saw Larry --
     Q.   -- would be east of West Street inside
some part of the building?
     A.   Yeah, I don't know what part of the
building, where that is.  This really doesn't
help me at all.  I went back on Monday the 15th
and just looked at the hotel.  I couldn't make
heads or tails of where we came out.
     Q.   But from your description, I'm guessing
you were either at the very north end of the
                  J. PICARELLO                 18
hotel or somehow had gotten into tower one.
     A.   Something like that.  Somebody told me
that we came out in the north tower, but then
again I can't --
     Q.   No, I understand.  The general area.
     A.   That would be accurate, because I do
remember when I started to walk, when I left
Ganci and went north -- I didn't walk very far at
all and I was under that north bridge.
          Stack, the last time I saw him was when
I went over that little wall or out the window,
whatever that thing was.  He was standing there
with two or three other members and some hotel
personnel and one of the staff guys, the heavyset
guy.  He couldn't walk.  His leg was really
messed up.
     Q.   Brian went out over the wall too, I
think, prior to you getting back.  Brian and
Henry went over that wall when you went left to
go see the other firefighters or something by the
stairwell, you said, that went down?
     A.   Right.
     Q.   When you got separated from Henry.
     A.   I got separated just prior to reaching
                  J. PICARELLO                 19
that big opening.  He had told me he was going to
down the stairway.  I do remember he had somebody
there with a little flashlight or something.  It
wasn't even ours.  I think one of the hotel
employees had it.  So that I remember.
          But I had stopped at that point and
turned around with Stack.  There was a number of
others.  We just stopped, and we were just
helping lead these people out.  So Henry went
down the stairs with the other group.  That was
the first group.  We were sort of behind after we
helped this guy out.
     Q.   You went down the same staircase,
though?
     A.   No.  It was the same staircase that was
that first door.  We didn't go down there.  We
passed that.  We went through the second door,
which was the long hallway and went through the
opening.
     Q.   Brian talked about going over a wall
with Henry.
     A.   So that might be, then, that second
stairway, because there was another one -- you
reached the end of the hall, there's the opening,
                  J. PICARELLO                 20
and then to the right there's a stairway.  I
don't know where that goes.
     Q.   He explains it almost like you did.  In
fact, they had to put a chair in front of the
wall so Eddie could step on the chair and get
out.
     A.   Right.  He was ahead of us, because
there was a chair there by the opening.  That's
the chair we used for this big heavy guy.
     Q.   That was probably the chair that they
used to step on to help everybody, Brian with his
broken arm or his broken shoulder.  They couldn't
get over this wall; it was just high enough.
Eddie probably couldn't get over.  So they knew
they had this chair there to step on and get over
from our talk with Ladder 9.
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   So this chair was there when you --
     A.   It was already there by the opening.
     Q.   So that was probably the chair they
used to go through the opening.
     A.   Right.
     Q.   That's the last time you saw Larry and
the heavyset --
                  J. PICARELLO                 21
     A.   Yeah, the last time was right by that
opening.  That was it.  That's the last time I
saw him.  That's the last place I saw Ganci.
     Q.   Did you see Commissioner Feehan up
there also?
     A.   No, I didn't see him.
     Q.   You don't know what Ray Downey looks
like to know if you saw him at all?
     A.   No.
          Some of the faces -- after the
collapse, it was so dark.  Even if I did, I
didn't know if they were with me or not.
     Q.   Right, exactly.
     A.   That's basically it.
     Q.   Thank you, John.
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  That concludes the
     interview.  It is now 1547.
3
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
          CHIEF STEVE GRABHER
   Interview Date:  December 6, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
File No. 9110241
S. GRABHER
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Today's date is
     December 6, 2001.  The time is 1330.  My name is
     Battalion Chief Art Lakiotes, Safety Command, New
     York City Fire Department.  I'm here to interview
     --
          BATTALION CHIEF STEVE GRABHER:  Battalion
     Chief Steve Grabher.
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Regarding the
     events of September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Steve, in your own words, could you just take
me through your day, responding out there and what
transpired?
     A.   I responded with Engine 220 from quarters.  I
think we were assigned on the fifth alarm.  I think it
was after the second plane hit.  We could hear it hit
at quarters from where we were.  So on the way, we
heard Chief Cross say on the Department radio that the
Brooklyn Bridge was open.  So we headed right there and
we headed right across the Brooklyn Bridge.  I think it
was the Brooklyn Bridge.  What is the one right there
on Flatbush?
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Manhattan.
     Brooklyn is over on Adams Street.  Doesn't
     matter.  You took the Manhattan.
2
S. GRABHER
     A.   I took the bridge Chief Cross said.  Went
across and came down.  We ended up on the west side on
West Street.  We pulled down as far as we could, I
guess somewhere up here, probably up here someplace,
pretty far away, because a lot of rigs were parked
there.
     Q.   Were you near the pedestrian overpass, that
white pedestrian overpass?
     A.   This place?
     Q.   No the one that goes to the Stuyvesant High
School.
     A.   I think we were closer than that.  I'm not
sure.  Got out of the rig.  I gave a 10-84, I got the
guys together at that point and told them that we have
to stick together because the rescue companies are
going to be heavily engaged and that we are just going
to go down there, walk up the stairs and put the fire
out.  We went down West Street, we were on the east
side of West Street, up here, and as we got closer I
told a -- a lot of people started to jump off the
towers at that time, the north tower, and I was telling
the guys keep your eyes out, keep your eyes up so you
don't get hit by people.
          Actually on the way while we were going,
3
S. GRABHER
right before I got out of the rig, the dispatcher told
all the Brooklyn units to switch over to channel 3.
They would be going to work in the south tower.  So I
put it on channel 3.  I told the guys switch over to
channel 3.  He also said that the command post was on
West and Liberty.  I took out the Hagstrom.  I saw
exactly where West and Liberty was.  It was a map just
like this.  I knew I had to go down to here.  We were
on the closest side of the building.  When I saw the
smoke in the north towers, I was kind of glad that we
were going to go to the south tower, because the north
tower was roaring.  There was no way that was getting
put out.  The south tower I thought we were going to go
put out.
          We came right down West Street, down here.
We couldn't get too close, because by the time we got
near 2 World Trade Center people were jumping off the
roof like crazy.  Landing near the hotel and the street
was littered with body parts.  I don't know if it was
from the plane or what.  But there was just body parts
all over the place.  Chunks of meat.  I saw an airplane
tire.  I walked past an airplane tire.  What looked
like an airplane tire.  Again we were looking up the
whole time.
4
S. GRABHER
          The thing was we were walking past a lot of
rigs as we went down West.  I didn't see anybody on the
street.  There was one cop somewhere around this
pedestrian bridge.  A lot of cars were on fire.  A van
was roaring on fire right here.  Right over here.
          I didn't see anybody.  I stood on the corner
of West and Liberty and there was nobody to be seen.
There is not a building here, I don't think, right?
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES:  There was a church
     there at one time.
          BATTALION CHIEF STEVE GRABHER:  But not when
     we were there?
     Q.   Were you there before or after the collapse?
     A.   I was there before the collapse.
     Q.   That church was there, St. Nicholas Greek
Church.
     A.   Really?
     Q.   Had a parking lot all around it.
     A.   Geez, that confuses me.  We walked right up
to the corner here of West and Liberty.  We couldn't --
I was looking for the command post.
     Q.   It was a very small building, one or two
stories?
     A.   It was small, yes.
5
S. GRABHER
     Q.   It was facing -- the entrance was on Cedar
Street.  It was right here the building.
     A.   Must be way over on this side.  Was 90 West
the building that had all the scaffolding on it?
Q. Yes.
     A.   There was nobody around.  It was completely
desolate.  I couldn't find the command post.  I told my
guys look for the command post.  There was nobody
around.  It was completely desolate, except for like I
said, body parts and burning cars and the people who
were jumping off the 2 World Trade Center had picked up
tremendously.  I mean it was, first of all pieces of
building and a lot of pieces of building, a lot of
glass coming down.
          Like I said, a lot of bodies were coming
down.  They were coming away from the building because
they were coming from such a great height.  So we took
a wide turn here.  Finally, I saw a company in front of
90 West, right in front of here under the scaffold.  I
think it was 205.  There was a Lieutenant there.  I
went up to him and said come on, let's go.  We got to
get into the lobby.  I was thinking that the command
post must be in the lobby of 2 World Trade Center,
because where I was a Lieutenant -- where I was a
6
S. GRABHER
Lieutenant in Long Island City we had one high rise and
whenever we had anything there the lobby command post
was right in the lobby of the place.
          But these guys had a look on their face, like
they wanted nothing to do with this.  It turns out they
had seen, they had helped with Danny Suhr.  I don't
know if they conveyed that to me then or later.  They
had seen the first fireman get hit.  He said we are not
going -- we can't make it across the street, whatever
you call this, the promenade, to the building.  When I
took a second look, I realized that it wasn't going to
happen.  We had our backs right to 90 West and we were
looking right across the street at the Trade Center.
          I'm thinking we got to get into the World
Trade Center, because obviously that's where the
command post must be.  There is a door behind us and a
maintenance guy opens the door and I thought to ask him
is there a subway here that comes up underneath the
tower.  I was thinking we could get in the entrance
like half a block away and come right up the platform
into the tower.  He said yes, it's down this way.
          Actually, before that happened, when I was
standing in front of 90 West, I had the handy talky on
channel 3 and really the only -- I heard a couple of
7
S. GRABHER
handy talky messages.  I heard, I thought it was Ladder
4, the roof man from Ladder 4 give a Mayday.
          He said he has fallen 2 or 3 stories.  I
asked the guys in 220 a couple of weeks later if
anybody heard anything from Ladder 4 and they said no.
They thought they heard something from Rescue 4.  I
thought it was Ladder 4.  I thought he said he is the
roof man from Ladder 4.  He gave a Mayday.  He was as
calm as a cucumber and it was right when I was standing
in front of 90, right when I first got there to 90 West
and I was looking up, I heard the Mayday come over, he
said it two or three times.
          He said, Firefighter so and so, I have fallen
two or three stories.  I'm trapped, come get me, help
me, come get me.  I heard someone give a reply, okay
brother, we are coming to get you.  Just give us your
location.  He was saying I don't know where I am.  I
have fallen 2 or 3 stories.  This was all happening
very quickly.
          I heard a Battalion Chief, it might have been
the 8th Battalion, but I'm not positive.  I'm really
not positive on that, say something about -- I heard
him say something.  I heard either the squad or the
Rescue -- somebody said we are coming to get you
8
S. GRABHER
brother, just give us your location, hold on.  He gave
a couple more Maydays.  And then he said I'm losing
consciousness, hurry up, come get me.  This whole thing
probably took about 15 seconds, if that.
          With that, I heard someone say collapse.
This wasn't the building collapsing yet.  I heard
someone say there has been a collapse.  I heard a
Battalion Chief -- might have been a Battalion
Chief -- say everybody out, everybody out, back out.
I don't know if it was back it out of the floor.  I
took it as everybody out of the building.  I took it as
this guy falling two or three stories, that there had
been some type of internal collapse on the floors.
This was in the south tower.
          As all this is transpiring, it's probably
happening while I'm talking to this building guy.  He
takes me into 90 West, we go about 15 feet, make a left
turn.  He said he was going to take me to the subway.
We make a right turn and end up right here.  I think
there was another street here.  Which is the big German
building?  Maybe a German bank.  Is this Bankers Trust
with the pillars on it?  This might be it.  Is this two
buildings or one building?
     Q.   (inaudible) connect the building, this is
9
S. GRABHER
where the fire house is.  That's where 10 and 10 is.
     A.   Well, we go through - 90 West is the one with
the scaffold.  We go in about 30 feet and come out this
way.
     Q.   Out to Washington.
     A.   As we come out here, I take a quick look to
my left and I thought I saw 2 firemen somewhere over
here.  I should not say firemen.  Two members of the
Fire Department, I don't know if they were firemen or
not.  I thought I saw.  There really weren't many
people around and everything was happening very
quickly.
          With that, I told the guys before we left
that place that we have to get to the corner of the
building.  At that point I wanted to approach the
building from a diagonal here because that would be the
safest way to come, so we weren't exposed to the two
faces of the building with the stuff falling.  I go
this way.
          Just as I go out of the building, one of my
guys says hey Captain, the building is coming down.  I
looked over my shoulder and you could see the whole top
of the south tower leaning towards us.  It looked like
it was coming over.  You could see the windows pop out
10
S. GRABHER
just like in the picture, looked like a movie.  I saw
one floor of windows pop out, like poof, poof.  I saw
one and a half floors pop out.  It looked almost like
an explosion.  The whole top was teetering, and I
really thought just the top of the building was falling
off.  I didn't think there was any way we were going to
make it out because just being this close, it looked
like it's leaning right on top of us.
          So we ran.  It wasn't that far.  I guess it
was right to here and just as we turned down Albany,
the whole building -- we got behind some pillars right
here.  You could see over the top of the building from
where we were standing.  You could see coming over the
building, the whole building was coming on top of us
this other building.  Just instantaneously, this was
all in a fraction of a second, a big dust cloud come
down this block and this block, just like whoo, like
that, this coming -- the building coming over the top
of this.  That's what it looked like, it was a dust
cloud.  It looked to me like the building was coming
down.  Then pitch black.
          That was it.  We thought we were trapped
there.  We got into this building over here, until the
dust cloud settled.  Keep going?
11
S. GRABHER
     Q.   Sure, tell me the whole story.
     A.   After that, actually we were in this building
and I was missing a guy.  Turns out when we turned down
here he decided go to this side of the street and I
thought I lost him.  So I told the guys to stay there.
I'm going out trying to find this guy and there is no
answer.  I go back inside, tell the guys to count each
other again.  Because we were with 205 too.  Some of
the guys were with us from 205.  I don't know if all of
them were.
          Went back out.  Couldn't find him.  Finally I
think we got everybody together.  We headed out.  At
this time I thought just the top of the building fell
down.  I really wasn't sure that the whole tower was
going to come down.
          We headed over here to Albany.  We started
going back this way, then the second tower came down.
We headed into I think a building.  I don't even know
where we headed into at that point.  I have no idea.
We went down to another building.  A big black dust
cloud again.  That time I had all my guys with me.
Actually, you know what, I think we were in this
building.
          We went in here after the first one because
12
S. GRABHER
we couldn't see too well, because of all the fiberglass
and stuff, we were trying to get the stuff out of our
eyes. We started evacuating this building.  This
building, I think it was this one.  A bunch of
secretaries coming down, I remember that.  But I
remember telling the security guard, has this building
been evacuated yet?  This was before the first
tower -- the second -- tower one collapsed, in
between.  Told him you got to evacuate.  You should
evacuate.  If anybody is left here you better get them
out, have them head south, so they were evacuated.
          We were cleaning stuff out of our eyes.  Just
as we left that building, the second one came down and
we ran to another building.  Again it was pitch black.
You couldn't see anything.  You had to wait I don't
know even know how long.  Five minutes, ten minutes,
before we got came out.  We headed down.  When we got
out, we headed back down this way.  Whatever building
we were in.  Down this way.  We saw the wreckage and we
thought - I thought that's the top of the building.  We
have to go find the main part of the building.  It
turns out I was looking at the Vista, what was left of
the Vista, and, of course, the tower on the street.
          So, what's next?
13
S. GRABHER
          By this time - by the time we got all over to
this debris pile over here, there were - really nobody
was looking into the pile.  You still couldn't see much
of the pile.  It was all covered.  It was all dust and
we had taken - most of us could hardly even see
ourselves.  We could barely keep our eyes open from the
fiberglass or whatever it was, the asbestos.
Q. Concrete?
     A.   Concrete, everything.  We were exhausted.  I
guess it had been about 45 minutes and we spent most of
the time running around.  I think we came under here.
We came over here and we were starting to run into
firemen that had come all back through here.
          Which building is this?  No, not this one.
This one.  Gateway Plaza, yes, okay.
     Q.   That's an apartment house.  That was the one
that was on fire?
     A.   Yes, that's the one that we put out.
     Q.   Did you?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Don't worry about it.
     A.   Anyway, we come back over here.  I remember I
ran into an EMS doctor, who said he set up a triage
center here and then I got on the radio and I was
14
S. GRABHER
calling command.  Trying to call somebody to tell them
that we had the triage center set up over here with a
doctor.  But the funny thing was, after the first
collapse, I was on channel 3, that was it.  I didn't
hear one other thing on the handy talky.  It's like
someone shut them all off.
          I don't remember hearing anything on the
handy talky until I got over there, until I started
calling and I think I went back to channel 1 and I
think I got in touch with somebody.  Over here on -- I
got in touch with some Chief.  I said you got an EMS
doctor set up over here with a triage center.
          We started taking our stuff off by then
because we were drained.  Before we left the rig, I had
the guys load up with everything, because I figured we
were going to be there all day.  Extra cylinders,
search ropes, rabbit tool, all the EMS gear we had, we
took everything.  We cleaned the rig out completely.
We were really like packing.  Of course we were
dropping stuff for the last 45 minutes.  Things were
getting dropped off.  Two of my guys I didn't realize
at the beginning of the tour, they were kind of old
fellows, I think -- about 55.
     Q.   Be careful with that old stuff.
15
S. GRABHER
     A.   They were -- my proby was a spring chicken
but the rest of these guys, these guys had basically
had it by this time.
     Q.   Especially with some time on the job.
     A.   Very senior members, very experienced
fellows.  They were.  One guy was a marine, I remember,
and he wasn't going to say die, but this guy was, his
eyes were popping out of his head.  He had had it.  He
is carrying all the crap around.
          We get over here and there seems to be
-- actually, when we got over here, there was an
Engine pump parked over here.  It wasn't damaged.
That's right, that's right.
          They tell us that all the water mains in the
area are out.  You got to get water up to us.  They got
one rig parked here but their ECC is gone, there's
nobody.  I had an extra, I had my chauffeur, I told him
this is your position.  You take over this rig.  I
think he stayed there until 2:00 in the morning working
that rig.  That was right over here.  I left him
there.  I took the rest of the guys away.
          That's what we were doing.  We were going to
get water.  As we went down the street there were other
guys checking hydrants.  There was nothing.  Someone
16
S. GRABHER
said there is a fire boat over here.  We went up to the
fire boat.  It was that little teeny one that was
parked over here, over here?
     Q.   That's a building.
     A.   That's a building?  Where's the harbor?
     Q.   Right back there somewhere.
     A.   Out back.
     Q.   Off Albany?
     A.   You know what, it was in here, it was in
here.  We went down this way.  Somebody said there is a
fire boat.  I go there is a fire boat.  I said it's a
little teeny fire boat that wasn't going to do
anything.
          So we work our way up this way.  I think we
went through the lobby here.  No, actually, I told the
guys to wait here at the fire boat, thinking that we
could stretch a line through here.  I went into this
building.  Is this the big glass atrium?
     Q.   That's what it is.
     A.   I went into here, right up to the end and I
could see all the debris had piled right up up to
there.  So I could see we weren't going to take a hose
through there.  So we went back and got what was left
of my guys that were still -- listened to me and stayed
17
S. GRABHER
there.  We went up this way.  I ran into a Chief that
said they have a manifold here.  They need to get a
line.
          So we commandeered an ambulance here on
Vesey.  We drove it down this way.  And there was one
of the big marine boats set up right here with the big
hose.  So by this time we had the construction workers
helping us and I had my proby driving the ambulance.
          We hooked it on the back, the hose on the
back and we drove it all the way down here where they
had the big manifold set up.  It looked look like they
were setting up a north command post there because
there were a bunch of Chiefs at this point.
          After we left there, we said let's go back
and get the rest.  Get our gear, so we came back to
here and as we are sitting here, there is smoke coming
out of the window, Gateway Plaza, light smoke and there
is a lot of firemen in the street.  Probably the recall
guys or guys that are like us, that had just been
scattered.  Nobody wants to look up at it.  Everybody
is kind of like, you know, I was doing the same thing.
          We are looking up.  It was light smoke.  It
was black but it was light.  We are sitting there
drinking some water and everybody is kind of licking
18
S. GRABHER
their wounds.  Then it got blacker.  It got blacker.
Next thing you know there is fire blowing out the
windows.  I said come on.  We can take care of this and
then some of the guys in the street, I don't know if
they were recall guys or whatever, but they were like,
hey Cap, got no water, we got no rigs that can pump.
          There was a Lieutenant there from 201.  I
think he had come and I was talking to him but I said
we can put this out.  If we don't put it out now it's
just going to get worse.  So I had my proby grab two
cans and we grabbed the -- I told what's his name, the
guy's name, I thought was big face.  He has a
nickname.  Bullet or biscuit, or something like that.
     Q.   Lieutenant from 201?
     A.   Yes.  I said listen this is what we will do.
I was talking to him.  We will grab the Clorox bottle,
we will drop it out the floor below, we will pull up
two lines of hose.  We got 500 gallons of water in the
rig here.  That's a start, you know.  We go up, go up
the stairs.  I had a couple of my guys with me, not all
of them, and the proby, and my nozzle man was with me.
          Me and the Lieutenant went into the floor
below and pulled the hose up, to the floor below, below
the fire.  The apartment was right there on the next
19
S. GRABHER
floor up.  We realized at that point we had a stand
pipe.  We turned the water on.  There was still water
in the stand pipe, so we pulled up one length of hose,
disconnected it.  Might have been two lines.  We pulled
up two lines, disconnected it, and, of course, give it
to the fireman.  One guy hooks up on the floor below
and the other guy hooks up on the fire floor, which is
two feet from the apartment but we had no pressure, so
we ended up just putting the nozzle on one length of
hose right there, went in and while they were hooking
it up, me and the proby went in with the can.
          That wasn't doing anything.  It was going.
The room was roaring.  We got the line.  My proby went
in, not the proby, my nozzle man Dean went in and put
the fire out.  There was like no pressure on this line
whatsoever.  We almost had to put it out by draining
the hose.  By that point we were shot.  We were just -
I don't know even know what time it was, it was noon or
afternoon or 2:00.  I have no idea.
          But I see my old boss from 14 coming up and
they were coming up to do a second primary on the floor
above or something like that.  A few people had
evacuated, but basically the building was empty.  I
mean everybody ran for their lives.
20
S. GRABHER
          We went downstairs.  Again we just dropped
our gear because we were beat by that time.  We took 5
there.  At one point two of my guys were heading off to
the hospital ship or something.  They had hurt their
backs.  There were 3 of them, 2 of them.  They were
heading south.  They got on a golf cart and headed
south down somewhere over here.  I think there is a
walkway here.
     Q.   There is.
     A.   Right.
     Q.   Yes.
     A.   They headed out this way.  I was left with
the proby, Dean, the nozzle -- no Dean left too.  The
nozzle man left.  This other proby that was a recall
guy, Bob, his name is Bob they call him -- what's his
name?
     Q.   That's the Lieutenant you saw?
     A.   I think that's Bob.
     Q.   No, it says Robert.  So it's Robert.
     A.   He has got a nickname, Paul or something like
that.  Anyway.  So most of my guys were gone.  I had a
proby with me.  I also had this kid that had joined me
before the fire.  I don't know his name.  I wrote his
name on the riding list too.  He was like just out of
21
S. GRABHER
the Academy.  He had no time on the job.  He was
wearing the old boots and the old turnout coat.  He
stayed with me for most of the morning.  I don't
remember his name.
          Then later on he said I'm going to go find my
own company.  Then we were hanging out on Liberty with
a lot of the other firemen right here, just waiting for
orders.  That's it.
     Q.   That's it?  How did you get back to the
house?
     A.   While I was waiting, I kept having the EMS
clean my eyes out.  They weren't getting any better.
They kept swelling up.  It got to the point where I
couldn't open them any more.  So me and the proby went
up and they took us by ambulance to Bellevue, where
they were irrigating my eyes for most of the evening
and then some health team, Division Corps, somebody
took me and him and a whole bunch of firemen dropped us
off in different parts of Brooklyn.
          That's when 118 got back.  Not 118, 122, I
guess is the truck.  We thought they were killed.  They
thought we were killed, because they were assigned on
the initial alarm.
     Q.   That's 220?
22
S. GRABHER
     A.   Yes, we all got back at like 11 o'clock at
night or something like that.  They came back
separately, they were getting off sanitation rigs and
stuff.  They thought we were wiped out and we thought
they were wiped out, but it was a very lucky fire
house.  Nobody was killed.  But the handy talky
messages when I was standing there, I'm trying to think
exactly what it was.  I could almost swear it was
Ladder 4, Ladder 4 roof.
          There was - somebody was insinuating that
there had been a structural collapse and this is
probably 15 to 30, 15 to 20 seconds before the building
came down.  I was hearing this.  There was some
collapse.
     Q.   It might have been an interior collapse
happening prior to the exterior?
A. Yes.
     Q.   Nobody knew exactly what was going on.  But
you are saying you are pretty sure it was Ladder 4, the
roof man.
     A.   I'm almost positive it was Ladder 4 roof.  I
remember him saying his name.  This guy was calm as a
cucumber.  I'm thinking this guy is about to die and he
is as calm as a cucumber.
23
S. GRABHER
     Q.   He didn't know it, I don't think.
     A.   Then he said I'm losing consciousness.
     Q.   Did you notice the firefighters you saw
coming across Liberty Street, was it a Chief or could
you tell?
     A.   It was such a glance.  They were pretty far
away, because I remember there wasn't much life that I
was seeing.  There really weren't people around.
Especially over there, because I was looking over there
for about 15 seconds when I was standing in front of 90
West, looking for someone, where is all these Chiefs,
where is everybody.  I talked to Mike Dunn, but I must
have walked right in front of the command post.  I was
on the other side of West and we were looking at the
building.  We weren't looking that way.  That was you?
     Q.   That's where I was, in the command post,
staging area, right across the west side of West Street
on Liberty.
     A.   Yes, so we were on the east side, we were
looking at the building.
     Q.   Oh, well, you weren't going to see me up
there.
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES:  That concludes the
     interview.  It's approximately 14 hundred hours.
24
File No. 9110242
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER MIKE ZECHEWYTZ
   Interview Date:  December 5, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
M. ZECHEWYTZ
2
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Today is December 5th,
2001.  The time is approximately 1820.  My name is
Battalion Chief Art Lakiotes, Safety Command, New York
City Fire Department.  I'm conducting an interview
with --
          FIREFIGHTER ZECHEWYTZ:  Michael Zechewytz,
engine 278, firefighter.
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  This is in regard to the
events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Mike, do me a favor and just tell me in your
own words from probably the time you started responding
with the company to the events that unfolded for you
that day.
     A.   Well, I remember we were drinking coffee in
the kitchen and we saw on the news breaking story on
Channel 5 that a plane just hit.  I remember I was
right by the TV set and I said, "That must have been a
drunk pilot."  I mean, it was clear outside.  So we
were like, "Wow, the guy must have had a few last night
or something."
          So then Roger Jackson and myself went out to
the front to see the smoke.  If you were in front of
the firehouse and you looked over to the right, you saw
the smoke.  Then he called and he goes, "Zech."  That's
M. ZECHEWYTZ
3
my nickname.  He goes, "Zech, look," and we saw the
other plane going from left to right with its nose
down.
          So then we ran back in the kitchen, and then
maybe 30 seconds later the news said that a bomb went
off in the second building.  But then they saw in slow
motion it was a plane.  So that was the plane that we
saw go into it.  Then the 4 responded, I forget what
alarm, maybe third alarm, and then we went on the fifth
alarm.
          Then we went to the staging area right by the
tunnel.  228 went through the tunnel and they couldn't
make contact with them for a while.  Then there was a
collapse.  Someone said it might be a collapse on the
south side of the tunnel.  Then we didn't hear from
them and then later on they went through.  There must
have been a lot of debris in there.
     Q.   Let me ask you a question before we go any
further.  Were you there before or after the collapses?
     A.   We saw the collapse.
     Q.   You weren't there?
     A.   We were at the tunnel on the Brooklyn side.
     Q.   And you saw tower 2 go?
     A.   We saw tower 1.
M. ZECHEWYTZ
4
     Q.   That was the second tower to go.
     A.   All right.  No.
     Q.   The first tower to go was tower 2.
     A.   Okay.  So that's the tower.  We saw that from
the Brooklyn side of the tunnel.  I was right in front
of the rig.  It was me and Vinny Buonocore right in
front of the rig.  We were like the first thing out of
our mouths after that was, "Wow, we have firemen just
died."  We saw it come down.
          Then whatever Chief was there by the tunnel,
they sent us and a couple other companies to the
Brooklyn Bridge.  Tower 1, then, I guess was still up.
People were saying like, you know, it's crazy to give
us the assignment to cross.
          Then we went over the bridge.  The tower was
still up.  That was tower 1, I guess, that was still
up.
     Q.   The north tower.
     A.   I guess from that time, when we got over the
bridge and where we parked our rig, it went down.  But
we didn't hear it.  We just saw debris everywhere, but
we didn't know that tower came down yet.
     Q.   Do you know who the Chief was that gave you
the order to go back?
M. ZECHEWYTZ
5
     A.   No, I don't know.  I remember his face.  I
mean, I could remember like it was yesterday.  No, I
don't remember.
          Like I said, we parked the rig on I forget
exactly what street and we went to the West Side
Highway.  We were there for a while.  Then, I guess,
after an hour or two, they sent us to the Milennium
Hotel with roll-ups.  We went to the fourth floor
there, hooked up to a standpipe.
          Then another Chief -- I don't want to say the
wrong name.  I'm not sure exactly who.  It might be
Jensen, if he was there with us.  We went there with a
truck company, another engine company.  We were there
for at least an hour, an hour and 15 minutes, and then
they said that someone gave a Mayday in the hallway up
the stairwell that the Milennium Hotel might come
down.  So we just ran out of there.  We left our folds
right on the stairs.  We left the hose on the standpipe
and all our stuff.
     Q.   That's about it?
     A.   Yes.  After that we were pretty much just
going from -- we were helping dump trucks, we were
doing like little searches, engine searches, moving
debris.
M. ZECHEWYTZ
Q.   You said Roger was with you?
6
     A.   No.  Vinny Buonocore, McLaughlin, John
McLaughlin -- no, Jimmy McLaughlin.  I'm sorry.  Richie
Vetland, Captain Henricksen.  The only companies I
remember with us at the staging area, I can remember
280 being there because I have a friend that was
working that day.  102 truck was there.  They walked
through the tunnel.  I knew a guy from there, Jimmy
McCutcheon.
     Q.   Jimmy McCutcheon?
     A.   Yes.  He actually walked through the tunnel.
     Q.   I hope he has a brother on the job.  There's
a Lieutenant in 122.
     A.   Oh, yeah?
     Q.   Yes.  Somebody said they saw him there,
Lieutenant McCutchan.  Did you say 280?
     A.   280 was with us at the staging area, 102
truck, 114 truck.
     Q.   114 got through.
     A.   Yes, they got through.  I don't know how they
got through and we didn't.
     Q.   Because Dennis Oberg was standing next to me
when the buildings came down.
A. Yes.
</XMP></BODY></HTML>
M. ZECHEWYTZ
Q.   I know 114 got through.
7
     A.   Because I remember seeing them.  We had
pulled up.  They went in front of us at the staging
area and that was it.  We didn't see them anymore.  But
we saw the tower come down from the tunnel, and then,
like I said, the first tower, which is the second tower
that went down, we didn't see come down.  I saw it up
all the way until we got over the bridge.
Q. Very good.
     A.   That's all.  I wish I could help you a little
more.
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  No, that's fine.  This
concludes the interview at 1825.
File No. 9110243
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         FIREFIGHTER TROY OWENS
   Interview Date:  December 5, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
T. OWENS 2
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Today's date is
     December 5th, 2001.  The time is
     approximately 1705.  I am Chief Art
     Lakiotes, Safety Command of the N.Y.C. Fire
     Department.  I am conducting an interview
     with --
          FIREFIGHTER OWENS:  Firefighter Troy
     Owens, Engine 279.  That day I was working
     at Ladder 131.
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  This is in regards to
     the events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Troy, if you would, just take me
through your day during the event, after the
event, where you went and so on and so forth.
     A.   We responded on the fifth alarm or
whatever it was at the time, and we were told to
report to the staging area on the Brooklyn side
of the Battery Tunnel.  We were standing there
when we were watching one building burn.  The
second plane hit while we were standing there.
          At that time we were deployed into
Manhattan.  We were stuck in the tunnel for a
little while.  We finally made it through.  It
was a disaster area, of course.  Everything was
T. OWENS 3
crazy.  We took a position on the west side of
West Street.
     Q.   If it will help you, here's a map.
     A.   I know exactly.  We had to get right
from underneath everything.  There was too much
shit coming down.  We were standing on the other
side of West Street.  We were watching them jump
and all of that there.
          Then we received orders to proceed into
building two via the World Trade Center Marriott
Hotel.  That's where we were.  When we first
arrived there, we didn't have any other specific
orders.  The lieutenant told us to take a minute,
told us to take a breather.
          We didn't have specific orders at the
time.  The first captain or lieutenant said,
"Listen, guys, take your gear off.  Take a
breather, take a minute."  What I chose to do is
I went to say hello to someone I hadn't seen in a
long time --
     Q.   Would you tell us who it was?
     A.   Yes.  I went to say hello to Lieutenant
Gregory McLetchie from Ladder 122.  I saw another
gentleman from proby school.  I don't remember
T. OWENS 4
his name.
     Q.   Do you know what unit he was with at
the time?
     A.   Lieutenant --
     Q.   No, the one from proby school.
     A.   I don't remember what unit he was in.
          Also I came back to the company and
said, "Lou, I'm going to the bathroom."  I went
to drink water and wanted to urinate.  I didn't
want to get stuck up there and have to be
thirsty.  I went to the bathroom.  As soon as I
came back, they said, "Troy, we're ready."  I saw
we had our orders, to proceed to whatever
staircase, whatever.
          At that time I just had my bunker pants
on.  I put my bunker coat on.  Right after I put
my bunker coat on, I went to grab my mask.  I
noticed one of the guys from the company said,
"Look, they're all running."
          I heard rumbling.  There was a window
there.  I looked outside.  I saw a black quick
shadow come to the building.  I thought it was
another plane hitting.  I just heard rumbling,
and everything just came down.
T. OWENS 5
          I just had to turn -- they said, "Get
down, get down."  I heard someone say get down,
and that's what I did.  I dropped.  My helmet was
buried.  I couldn't get it.  I had my hand on the
strap to my mask.  As everything was coming down,
I was getting blasted by the dust, the debris.  I
was getting blown away, tossed around and
whatnot.
          I turned the mask on, and I tried to
open it up and it wouldn't work.  So I just
stayed there until everything finally came down.
I didn't get hit.  I didn't get hit with
anything, but I was choking on that shit.
          So at the time I was like, wow,
everything had gone black.  I had my big light
on.  I've got my big flashlight on.  After
everything eventually came down and I was still
alive, at that time I just wanted to know where
was the way out.
          There was a gentleman; I think he
worked in the hotel.  Maybe he was a fire safety
director or something.  I said, "Where was the
way out?"  He pointed in that direction.  I went
out towards the way out to look.  The ground was
T. OWENS 6
missing in some of the parts of -- in part of the
lobby was like a bar area over there somewhere.
It kind of went out a little bit.
          At that point I said, okay, let me go
see what's up with Ladder 131.  I went back with
131.  The first person I found was Lieutenant
Woods.  He was okay.  He was okay.  He was badly
shaken up like I was.
          The rest of the guys, we all came out.
I think there was a door they were forcing to.
Eventually we all got out.  But I thought
everybody was with us.  Mattie Castrogiovanni, we
didn't know where he was.  From what I
understand, somebody took him and put him in an
ambulance and they took him away because his eyes
got blasted pretty bad.  We had communication
with him at first, but then we lost him.  So we
didn't know where he was.
          When we got out, we kept calling, kept
calling.  While we were trying to find out where
he was, we helped pull this guy out from under an
ambulance.  I think lieutenant said pair up and
help people.  I paired up with Keith Kaiser.
          We helped get this guy out from under
T. OWENS 7
an ambulance.  He was a fireman.  I don't know
who he was.  Hopefully he's all right.  The other
guys helped this photographer.
          What we did is we went across West
Street.  There was a store over there.  I know we
all needed to drink something or get the stuff
out of our eyes.  So we got into the store.  The
first thing I did was go straight to the back
where the sink was.  When I went there to cut the
water on, they said, "The other building's coming
down."  The other building came down.  All the
guys that were there that were outside the deli,
they dove in the deli.  I dropped behind the
counter.  That's how we survived the second
collapse.
          After that the lieutenant said, "Look,
we just survived two collapses.  Let's get the
fuck out of here."  So we kind of got away from
the area.  At that time we -- during the second
collapse, we kind of lost what's his name?  Craig
Gutkes?  He got disconnected from us.  We were
still communicating with him.
          So we went south a little bit.  He met
us there further down.  There was another
T. OWENS 8
building there, and I went inside this building
to try to wash some of the stuff off my face and
go to the bathroom.  While I was in the building,
I wanted to make a phone call also.  While I was
on the phone, they said you have to get out of
the building because the building is going to
blow, there's a gas leak.
          At that time everybody in the vicinity,
in that immediate vicinity, they made us all get
on boats and they took us over to Jersey and that
was it.  We got on, me, Keith Kaiser and Mark
Ruppert.  We all got on together.  We stayed
together the whole time.
          They took us to the decon units over by
the triages over there.  We tried to hook up with
the lieutenant and Greg Gutkes was together.  We
tried to found out where they were.  We spent a
long time trying to find out where they were.  We
didn't want to go to any hospital until we knew
where they were.  Then eventually we found they
were all right, because a gentleman from the
house, Harry, he was helping us out, Harry
(inaudible).
     Q.   (Inaudible.)
T. OWENS 9
     A.   Yeah.  He was helping us out.  We knew
everybody was okay.  It was just Mattie, we
didn't know what the hell was up with Mattie.
          Eventually we wound up in the hospital.
I forgot the name of the hospital.
     Q.   New Jersey?  It's okay.
     A.   Actually the hospital was in I think
Staten Island.
     Q.   That's what I'm saying, Staten Island,
whatever.  St. Vincent's or something like that.
     A.   I can't remember.  They sent me a
letter with the pictures that they took of us.
They were real nice people.  They took real good
care of us.  They washed out my eyes.  My eyes
got washed out three times.  I still had a hard
time.  I was still choking on this stuff.  My
chest was burning and whatnot.
          That was the end of it for us that day,
for me.
     Q.   How many guys did you see in the lobby
when you were in the lobby?  50?  60?  100?
More?
     A.   There were a lot of guys going in with
rollups.  We were one of the last companies to go
T. OWENS 10
in the building.  I believe we were -- when we
first walked in the Marriott World Trade Center
Hotel, if I remember correctly, there's a bar
that you ran into first.
     Q.   I think it's called the Tall Ships bar
or something like that.
     A.   Okay.  Then right after you get to the
bar, then you actually reach the lobby, the hotel
lobby.  We were like the last ones, because I
remember there was this wall.
          When I found out the building was
dropping, I dove right on this side of this wall.
I tried to get close to something.  Instead of
being out in the open, I was kind of like hugging
the wall.  The other guys were right on the other
side of the wall.  There was a bunch of guys in
there.  The hallway, it was a long hallway, a
long lobby.
          From what I understand, everything
behind that -- if you were behind the revolving
doors, it would be curtains.  From what I
understand, everything behind the revolving
doors -- I believe not even that far.  I don't
know how many people made it out.  I don't think
T. OWENS 11
it was too many.  There were a lot of guys in the
lobby.  I can't really tell you a number because
I know it was a deep lobby.
     Q.   What was that lieutenant's name from
122?
     A.   Lieutenant McLetchie.
     Q.   McLetchie?
     A.   Yeah, Lieutenant McLetchie, 122.
     Q.   So basically you were in the lobby
close to the Liberty Street side.
     A.   Yeah.  Actually they found my helmet.
     Q.   Did they?
     A.   The front piece only, just the front
piece.
     Q.   You don't know what happened after
tower one came down.
     A.   When tower one came down, we were on
the other side --
     Q.   Yeah, I know.  You left your helmet in
the lobby of the hotel; right?
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   That's what I'm saying.  So we don't
know what happened to the lobby after tower one
came down.
T. OWENS 12
     A.   The lobby itself?
     Q.   Yeah, after all the --
     A.   I have it up in my locker.  The front
piece, it's just the front piece of the helmet
only, the leather part.  It has a tag on it that
says deceased.
Q. All right.
A. It said on Liberty Street.
Q. Very good.
A. Ithada9onit,a9. Mybadgenumber
is the only one with Engine 279 on it because 279
is missing so maybe that's why they put
"deceased" on it.  I was working with 131.
     Q.   Okay.  Sure.  That's possible.
     A.   Mine was the only one from 279 that
started with a 9, so it had to be mine.
     Q.   The guys from 279 didn't do too well.
          So except for the lieutenant -- you
really don't remember the name of the proby that
you saw?
     A.   A Latin guy.  I didn't see his name on
the list of deceased.  I would like to hear his
story.
     Q.   What about his picture?  I'm sure we
T. OWENS 13
have it.
     A.   I talked to Lieutenant McLetchie.  He
said that he just grabbed a column and held on.
What held him up is he was waiting for one of
their men in the bathroom.  That held them up.
After everything came down, I remember him saying
he was trying to cut a lieutenant out, some
lieutenant.
     Q.   I'll get to talk to him.
     A.   Their tool failed, and they went on to
get another one.  When they went to get another
tool, the other building came down.  So that's
what he told me.  I thought he was missing,
actually.  I got his name mixed up with someone
else.  But he's okay.  I talked to him on the
phone.  They were a little further in the
building than we were.
     Q.   I guess that's it.  I want to thank
you.
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  This concludes the
     interview.  It is approximately 1725.
          Thank you, Troy.

FILE NO 9110244
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW CAPTAIN JAMES YAKIMOVICH
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

YAKIMOVICH
BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES TODAY IS DECEMBER
2001 THE TIME IS APPROXIMATELY 1530 BATTALION CHIEF ART LAKIOTES SAFETY COMMAND
IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH
AM
CAPTAIN
JIM YAKIMOVICH
REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001 TELL ME IN YOUR OWN WORDS HOW THIS DAY UNFOLDED FOR
YOU
WAS DETAILED TO THE DEPARTMENT OF CITYWIDE ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES PREPARING THE LIEUTENANTS
PROMOTIONAL EXAM AT APPROXIMATELY GUESS OCLOCK LITTLE BEFORE LIEUTENANT MARIANNE MONAHAN CALLED ME
UP AND SAID THAT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER HAD BLOWN UP IN FRONT OF HER CROSSED THE HALL AT ONE CENTRE STREET THE MUNICIPAL BUILDING THE 14TH FLOOR LOOKED OUT THE WINDOW AND THERE WAS FIRE COMING OUT OR 300 WINDOWS MYSELF AND LIEUTENANT CHRIS GINOCCHIO ALSO DOING THE TEST TOOK THE ELEVATOR TO THE LOBBY AND WE PROCEEDED TO GO DOWN PARK ROW TO BROADWAY AND AT BROADWAY AND VESEY WE HEADED WEST TO WHERE WE REACHED CHURCH AND VESEY WHEN THE SECOND PLANE IMPACTED
THEN WE WERE DIDNT SEE MANY UNIFORMED PERSONNEL ON THAT CORNER LOT OF CIVILIANS OBSERVING
THE FIRST FIRE BURNING AND WHEN THE SECOND IMPACT

YAKIMOVICH
HAPPENED EVERYONE WENT RUNNING LOT OF CIVILIAN INJURIES THATS ALL REALLY SAW WAS CIVILIANS
INJURED OTHER AMBULANCES ON THE SCENE THAT WERE ABLE TO RESPOND AND REMOVE THESE VICTIMS FEW ESU RIGS RESPONDED ASSISTED COUPLE OF PD WITH THIS
GOT BACK AND THEN WALKED NORTH ON CHURCH STREET TO BARCLAY BARCLAY TO WASHINGTON AND AT
WASHINGTON STREET PROCEEDED SOUTH TO WHERE WENT TO OEM BECAUSE FIGURED
VESEY AND THATS SINCE WORKED
THERE BEFORE COULD GIVE THEM HAND PERUGGIA WHO SAID SEE IF YOU CAN GET FLOOR TO STAFF THE OFFICE OF EMERGENCY BEING THE FIRE DEPARTMENT REPRESENTATIVE
WHEN GOT TO THE 23RD FLOOR THEY TOLD ME THEY WERE EVACUATING THE BUILDING AND PROCEEDED TO
THE LOBBY AND FROM THAT TIME
HAPPENED BUT DID GET TO 10 FRONT OF THEIR QUARTERS MET
DONT RECALL WHAT ENGINE AND 10 TRUCK CITYWIDE TOUR COMMANDER
CHIEF CASSANO HE TOLD ME TO GET SOME BUNKER GEAR AND REPORT TO THE COMMAND POST WHICH WAS ON WEST STREET
WENT TO 10 ENGINE AND 10 TRUCK AND SPOKE TO LIEUTENANT OMALLEY AND GRABBED HELMET AND
BUNKER COAT AND SIGNED IT OUT IN THE DAY BOOK AND PROCEEDED WEST ON LIBERTY STREET WHERE WAS
MET CHIEF TO THE 23RD
MANAGEMENT
IN

YAKIMOVICH
APPROXIMATELY AT THE WESTERN END OF WORLD TRADE CENTER WHEN WORLD TRADE CENTER COLLAPSED
RAN AND AT THE FIRST DOOR SAW WHICH WAS AT THE CORNER OF LIBERTY AND WEST THERE WAS
DOOR INTO THE MARRIOTT HOTEL WORLD TRADE CENTER VISTA INTERNATIONAL HOTEL WHATEVER ITS
CALLED AND WENT INTO THAT LOBBY AND FOUND PIECE OF SOME KIND OF MASONRY THING IN THE LOBBY ABOUT FOOT AND HALF SQUARE JUMPED BEHIND THAT THEN THE WINDOWS FELL AND GOT HIT WITH THE WIND BLAST IT GOT DARK AND THE DEBRIS THEN CAME
FORGET HOW LONG IT WAS IT COULD HAVE BEEN 10 SECONDS IT COULD HAVE BEEN 30 SECONDS IT COULD
HAVE BEEN MINUTE DONT KNOW IT STOPPED THEN THERE WAS SOME MURMURING AND MOVING ABOUT IN THIS AREA
WHERE WAS IN AND IT WOUND UP THERE WERE PEOPLE THERE WITH MYSELF THERE WERE CIVILIANS AND MYSELF KNEW WHICH WAY IT WAS TOWARDS LIBERTY STREET AND WE
PROCEEDED TO WALK THAT WAY DONT KNOW HOW MANY
REVOLVING
STEPS
THE BUILDING THATS WHEN
TOWARDS THE
TOOK
DIDNT KNOW IF WAS INSIDE OR OUTSIDE
RAN INTO AN APPARATUS PUMPER AND KNEW WE WERE OUTSIDE THE BUILDING
THEN TOLD THE PEOPLE WAS WITH HEAD RIVER BECAUSE THATS WHERE ITS GOT TO BE

YAKIMOVICH
CLEAR WE PROCEEDED WEST ON LIBERTY STREET PAST WEST STREET TO THERE WAS MARINA THERE AND THEY LET US
USE THEIR BATHROOMS AND WAS ABLE TO GET SOME OF THE DEBRIS OUT OF MY FACE
THEN CAME OUT AND IT WAS ITS NOT LISTED
HERE BUT ITS BEHIND WEST STREET THERE IS
CAN WALK THROUGH IS IT WORLD TRADE CENTER THE
MERRILL LYNCH BUILDING ITS AROUND THAT WAY TOWARDS THE WINTER GARDEN PROCEEDED EAST ON THAT STREET
UNDERNEATH THE WINTER GARDEN OR RIGHT IN THAT GENERAL VICINITY THEN CAME TO WEST STREET PROCEEDED NORTH ON WEST STREET NOT KNOWING THAT THE COMMAND POST WAS SOUTH OF WEST STREET ON WEST STREET AND WHEN GOT TO THE CORNER OF VESEY AND WEST TURNED AND SAW TOWER ONE MOVE LITTLE BIT PROCEEDED TO RUN AS FAST AS COULD NORTH ON WEST STREET WHERE ENCOUNTERED 16 TRUCK AND JUMPED UNDERNEATH THE REAR WHEELS OF 16 TRUCK
THEN THE SECOND COLLAPSE HIT
AT THAT TIME IT SEEMED LIKE THERE WERE LOT
OF FIREMEN AROUND BUT DONT RECALL SEEING ANY ONE
THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT DO RECALL SEEING WAS
HIS NAME IS BILLY RIGGS FROM 44 ENGINE THAT WAS BETWEEN THE TWO COLLAPSES HE WAS INJURED BUT HE SWORE THAT THERE WERE OTHER PEOPLE INJURED MORE THAN
WAY YOU
GUESS

YAKIMOVICH
HIM AND HE DIDNT NEED HAND THAT WAS RIGHT AROUND WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER THE MERRILL LYNCH BUILDING
HE WAS ON BENCH RIGHT THERE
IM TRYING TO THINK OF ANY OTHER GUYS THAT
SAW MENTIONED SAW CHIEF CASSANO SAW MEMBERS OF ENGINE 53 LIEUTENANT BOB DOUGHERTY ONE OR TWO OTHER MEN CANT REMEMBER WHO THEY WERE BUT AGAIN THEY WERE DIRECTING PEOPLE IN THE AREA BEHIND WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER TO HEAD NORTH AWAY FROM THE TRADE CENTER COLLAPSE NUMBER
AFTER THE SECOND COLLAPSE PRESUMED LIKE
EVERYBODY ELSE THAT MOST PEOPLE IN THAT AREA WERE HURT OR DEAD BUT IT WOUND UP THAT THEY WERE ALIVE AFTER GOT OUT FROM UNDERNEATH THE 16 TRUCK PROCEEDED NORTH AGAIN ON WEST STREET TO GET AWAY FROM THE DUST CLOUD BECAUSE KNEW THATS WHERE IT WOULD BE CLEAR HIT CHAMBERS STREET MADE RIGHT WALKED UP TO CHAMBERS STREET TO GUESS THAT WOULD BE PARK ROW AGAIN CAME AROUND AND WAS HEADED BACK TOWARDS THE SITE WHEN LOT OF FIRE DEPARTMENT APPARATUS WERE ARRIVING ON THE
SCENE AND TOLD THEM WHAT HAPPENED AND THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH WHAT HAPPENED FROM THE TIME GOT THERE TO
THE TIME WHEN THE SECOND COLLAPSE WAS OVER
KNOW THE ACTIONS THAT SAW KNOW SAW

YAKIMOVICH
LOT OF FIRE DEPARTMENT PEOPLE THEIR NAMES DONT KNOW AND DONT RECALL ACTUAL FACES BUT COULD SEE
MANY PEOPLE IN MY TRAVELS
SO YOU REALLY DONT HAVE ANY IDEAS OF NAMES
OR WHERE PEOPLE WERE
NO NO KEEN IDEAS OF NAMES
DONT KNOW IF
THATS ANY HELP AT ALL BUT
BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES THIS CONCLUDES THE
INTERVIEW IT IS NOW APPROXIMATELY
1540
File No. 9110245
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER MICHAEL HAZEL
   Interview Date:  December 6, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
M. HAZEL
          CHIEF KING:  Today's date is December 6,
2001.  The time is 1625 hours.  This is Battalion Chief
Stephen King with the Safety Battalion of FDNY.  I am
conducting an interview with Firefighter Michael Hazel
from Engine 224.  The interview is regarding the events
of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Mike, you can start any time you're ready.
     A.   Okay.  That morning I was awaiting relief,
believe it or not, and we were watching TV in the
kitchen and we saw the news saying that the tower was
hit, the first tower was hit.
          So we had a couple of guys here.  One guy was
going off duty.  The rest were all working.  Another
guy just came back from a detail.  I said to them,
"Don't go anywhere because we're going to be going to
the World Trade Center," because we always respond to
that box and you could see from the TV that it was a
substantial fire and I knew we'd be going.
          You couldn't tell at that point it was a
jet.  I thought originally it was a publicity stunt,
especially after that guy with the parachute who got
caught in the Statue of Liberty.  I figured it was just
some guy who was trying to fly between the towers and
got lost because it really didn't look like that big of
2
M. HAZEL
a hole.  So a few minutes later we responded.  We were
sent a ticket and we responded, but to the Battery
Tunnel, to the staging area.  We didn't go directly to
the Trade Center.
          On the way to the Battery Tunnel, we're
driving along Columbia Street and I'm sitting across
from the proby, and as we're talking and I'm preparing
him for the events, what to expect at this job we're
going to go to, he just says to me, "Look at this
dummy.  He's flying underneath the smoke instead of
over it."  With that I turned to my right and looked at
the Twin Towers and I saw the second jet hit.  So he
started screaming and I just said to him, "We're in big
trouble.  This is an attack.  We're being attacked."
          So we thought we were going to get sent right
to the Trade Center, but we went to the Battery Tunnel
and, obviously, everybody else who was there saw the
second plane hit, so no one was sitting in their rig
just waiting to go.  We all jumped out and ran over to
each other and started talking, like this isn't good,
we're in trouble here, there's a lot of fire, there's a
lot of people, and we couldn't understand why we
weren't getting called yet.
          A couple of the chauffeurs who got out of
3
M. HAZEL
their rigs to mingle turned up their radios, so it was
like in stereo.  All the rigs just blared, "Anybody at
the Battery Tunnel."  They started rattling off the
companies.  "Respond."  So we all wished each other
luck and we jumped in our rigs and we went through the
tunnel.  We got stuck in the tunnel for a while,
probably a good ten minutes, but it seemed like
forever, where it just wasn't moving at all, and we
pretty much all got the feeling that it was a setup,
that we were meant to get stuck in there.
          But we eventually got through the tunnel, and
at first we started seeing bits and pieces, when we
turned up West Street, of the plane and of what turned
out to be body parts.  But the closer we got, the
bigger the parts got, the plane parts and the body
parts, and it finally got to the point where I was
facing forward and I told the proby, who was facing the
rear, not to look anymore because I told him the things
he was going to see he'd rather not see and that he
would never be able to get it out of his head if he did
see them.
          At that point, Smitty was driving.  That's
when he started trying to snake his way up West
Street.  There was a lot of debris in the street and I
4
M. HAZEL
remember yelling to the Lieutenant to keep going
because stuff was still landing all around us.  We just
passed a compact car where the engine was running and
the door was open, which looked to me like the driver
had escaped, but from the back seat to the trunk was
crushed by a jet engine.  I said to the proby, "There
goes the luckiest guy in the world right there."  So we
went past that and we saw a couple of more gruesome
scenes, and at that point I just made sure that we
weren't going to pull over because it was just raining
down too much debris.
          We started going up West Street.  I believe
that's when Smitty ran over the part of the plane, but
he did that to avoid the bodies because there were
obviously bodies in the street that were hit by either
apparatus or cars or something and it wasn't a pretty
picture.  Like Smitty said, it's just very hard to
intentionally run over a body, even if you know they're
dead.  So we tried to go around them as best as
possible.  I didn't hear him hit the debris in the
street.  The guys on the other side said they heard it.
          Anyway, we pulled up.  We got a hydrant.  We
all jumped off and the Lieutenant reminded everybody to
take their extra cylinder.  I told the Lieutenant that
5
M. HAZEL
maybe we should help Smitty hook up because we'd
probably need water more importantly than anything
else.  They had a lot of people there already.  The
hose I didn't think was going to be that important as
much as water would be.
          So we helped him hook up, and an officer came
over from the command post.  I thought it was a Chief.
Somebody told me it was a Lieutenant.  I'm not sure who
it was.  He told us to move.  He said to get off the
hydrant and move further up north to another hydrant so
that rigs coming up from behind us would be able to
form a chain rather than have them try to get around us
because there wasn't much room to get through West
Street.  So we had to disconnect the rig.
          We got back on the rig.  We moved up to the
next hydrant.  Again we helped Smitty hook up and
grabbed our roll-ups and our cylinders, and as we were
turning to walk away, one of the guys just nonchalantly
said, "Hey, Smitty, that's you," and he pointed to the
ground.  I didn't know what he meant.  I looked down
and it was transmission fluid.  So I said, "What are
you talking about?"  He said, "That's from when he hit
the plane.  We must have a leak."  So I stopped him and
I said, "We can't leave him here like this because, if
6
M. HAZEL
he runs out of transmission fluid, he's not going to be
able to pump and he's going to be useless."  So I said,
"Let's see if we can help him."
          So I called to one of the other guys, Richie
Saulle, and I asked him to get the clay, the gunk that
we use to fix gas tanks.  I asked him to get it and see
if he could go under there and try and patch this
hole.  So then we got the gunk and we went under the
rig and it was a pinhole.  It wasn't that much.  We
patched it up and we waited a while to see if it was
going to stay.  It looked like it was going to hold.
          So we got out from under the rig and we got
our roll-ups and our cylinders and we walked about
maybe ten yards, 15 yards, and the tower started to
come down.  At first it looked to me like just the top
of the tower, like maybe the top 15 floors, like the
skin of the building was just peeling off and coming
down.  We pretty much all just stood there in
disbelief, and what I did at that point was I told all
the guys I was with to put their masks on, their face
piece, because I saw the dust coming and I said, "Who
knows how much we're going to get hit with?  We might
as well put our masks on."  I told Smitty and this
other guy, Bailey, who was just buffing the job, to get
7
M. HAZEL
their masks on or to hightail it.
          So we all put our face pieces on and we
pretty much got hit with a lot more than we expected,
so we tried to find refuge behind cars or up against
fences or whatever we could.  I got down on the ground
and a civilian -- I don't remember now if he bumped
into me or if he just was calling out, but I grabbed
him and I started sharing my face piece with him,
sharing the mask, and then you just started hearing
people screaming and yelling because they started
getting engulfed in the cloud and it started getting
darker and darker.  Another guy was coming running by
crying, screaming.  I called out to him.  He came
over.  The two of those guys were sharing my mask now.
After a little while, a third guy starts coming up and
he was screaming and we grabbed him, and then I had all
three guys sharing my mask.  So I was trying to calm
them down because one guy was panicking.  He was pretty
upset.  He was getting hysterical.
          CHIEF KING:  We're going to stop the tape for
a minute.  It's 1635 hours.
(Pause.)
          CHIEF KING:  It's 1636 hours.  We're going to
restart the tape.  Go ahead, Mike.
8
M. HAZEL
     A.   So the one guy was getting pretty
hysterical.  The other two guys were okay.  They pretty
much took their hits of the air and they gave it back
to me when I asked.  But the third guy kept grabbing it
and screaming and yelling.  So I told him, I said,
"Listen, you keep it up, I'm not going to give you any
more and then you're going to pass out and I'm going to
leave you here."  So he pretty much calmed down after
that.  The bottom line is, I had my hood over my face,
but they pretty much used up all my air.  When it
finally started to lift, the first guy who was pretty
calm said thanks a lot and took off.  The other two
guys were a little more out of it.
          We regrouped and tried to go a little up
north to try and find a place where we could clear our
eyes and throats and noses so we could breathe better.
At that point I called out to all of the other guys in
the company.  I wanted to make sure that we didn't lose
Smitty or Bailey because they didn't have any masks and
I knew it got pretty nasty and, if they didn't run,
they were going to need help.
          So we couldn't find them originally.  We got
together, all of us regrouped, and we stood there for a
while because we had heard reports now that the tower
9
M. HAZEL
came down and we didn't believe it.  We just thought it
was the top couple of floors.  It was still too dusty
and too dark to see.  So we just stood there watching
and waiting to see if it cleared and we could tell what
was going on.  At that point, on the radio, we heard a
lot of Maydays and a lot of yelling and who's trapped
and who's hurt.
          It didn't seem like that long of a period of
time, but by the time we regrouped and got our act
together and we were going to start heading back down,
that's when the second tower started coming down.  When
that tower started coming down, we knew from the first
one, which, actually, the first collapse was blocked by
the north tower from us.  It sort of shielded us a
little.  When I looked up and I saw the antenna on the
second tower coming straight, just like falling
straight into the building, I knew it was coming down,
and we pretty much just turned and started to run.
          As we were running, it overtook us, the
impact.  A couple of guys went flying.  We went diving
under cars and up against fences.  We started getting
pelted with stuff.  Nothing substantial, though.  It
turned pitch black.  You couldn't see anything, but you
could still hear the screaming again and the yelling.
10
M. HAZEL
Pretty much the radio went dead after that, the second
tower.  We didn't hear anybody screaming for help.  It
was just like an eerie silence.  We knew that it was
really bad.
          At that point, I put my face piece on and my
cylinder ran out.  So I had the proby with me, who I
had told to stick with me, and we ducked down behind a
fence and I told him, I said, "Joe, you're going to
have to remain calm here because you're going to have
to change my cylinder."  He said, "No problem," and he
took my spare cylinder and changed it without a
problem.
          Then two guys behind us that were following
the fence actually walked right into us and then a cop
came by.  I thought he was a transit cop.  I'm not even
sure now.  We all stuck together and we started moving
north up along the side of the fence because we still
couldn't see anything.  At that point, I think the four
of us got together and we waited for it at least to
clear up a little bit so we could see.
          Most of the guys now were pretty bad as far
as the dust and the breathing, and it seemed like a
godsend.  We were walking up West Street and a guy in a
Poland Spring truck pulled over.  I said to myself,
11
M. HAZEL
"I'm going to go over there and I'm going to grab some
water.  I don't care if this guy likes it or not."  But
we couldn't even blink.  I told the guys to sit down,
and as I ran over towards the truck, the guy got out of
his truck and he just started opening up all the gates
on the truck and started throwing us water.  So we just
took bottles and we started rinsing everybody's eyes
out.  By the time we got cleaned up, there were guys
coming up by the hundreds, walking up the block and
just needing to be rinsed and cleaned.
          We got our act together.  We regrouped and
the Lieutenant and one of the other guys went down
south again to see if we could find anybody left
because at this point we didn't know what was going on
and we wanted to see if we could find a command post or
somebody down there that could tell us what to do.  But
we were northwest of the hotel and all the debris, it
was like a roadblock.  There was no way to get in
there.  That whole side of the West Side Highway was
just pretty much just demolished.  That's where the
walkways were.
          We went down there and there were numerous
rigs burning, cars burning.  It looked like something
out of a war movie.  There was really nothing to do.  I
12
M. HAZEL
mean, all the rigs that were crushed and with all the
debris in the street, we couldn't even get to the World
Trade Center complex.
          That was about it.  That's pretty much it.
After the second tower collapsed, we tried to get
together and stick together.  We found Smitty.  We
never found Bailey, but it turned out, we found out
later on, that he ran up to 20 truck and made a few
phone calls.  But, unfortunately, when they asked where
we were, he said he didn't know, that we were lost.  So
that didn't work out too well, except for the fact that
at least the guys that were here knew not to tell
anybody who called what he said.  But that's about it.
          The only thing I left out was, in between the
two towers collapsing, there were a couple of firemen
who were walking up that were bleeding pretty badly
from the head, and we stopped them.  They didn't want
to stop.  They were lost.  They didn't know what they
were doing.  They were sort of out of it.  So we had to
like grab them and restrain them and hold them by the
rig while we patched up their injuries on their heads.
          An ambulance was coming down the block and I
pulled them over and I said, "These two guys are hurt
pretty bad.  You've got to take them."  They said, "All
13
M. HAZEL
right.  We'll pull up and you can throw them in the
back."  I said, "Okay."  So they drove to the back of
the rig and I went behind the rig to grab these two
guys and their heads were being bandaged by the proby
and by Saulle, and the ambulance just took off.  They
kept going.  So, when they kept going, I was like, you
know, well, whatever.  But anyway, they kept going, and
that was only a few minutes before the second tower
collapsed.  So I don't know what became of them.
          But most of the guys that were walking up the
block after us were obviously closer to the building
than us and they were injured.  A lot of them were
bleeding.  Most of them were dazed and didn't even know
where they were.  That's why, when that water truck
pulled over, that was really good because people
couldn't breathe.  The civilians didn't even realize,
you know, when you can't breathe and when you've got
dirt in your eyes, I guess, for some reason, we're a
little more used to that than civilians are, but these
civilians were panicking, and you know any time people
are yelling and screaming and crying, it just adds more
stress to the situation.  So when this truck pulled
over, we pulled out a couple of the five-gallon barrels
of water, put them on like a ledge and just pulled the
14
M. HAZEL
cap off, and there were people sitting underneath them
just like a shower and it helped a lot of people.  That
calmed them down a lot anyway.
          CHIEF KING:  Okay, Mike.  Thank you.  The
time is 1645 hours and we've concluded the interview.
15

FILE NO 9110246
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER THOMAS SMITH
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

SMITH
CHIEF KING TODAYS DATE IS DECEMBER 6TH 2001 THE TIME IS 1355 HOURS THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF STEVEN KING OF THE SAFETY BATTALION OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK AM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL FIREFIGHTER THOMAS SMITH FROM ENGINE ZZ4 THIS
INTERVIEW IS REGARDING EVENTS WHICH OCCURRED ON SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
TOM YOU CAN START WHENEVER YOU WANT
MY STORY STARTS WITH IN THE MORNING SITTING HAVING COFFEE AT THE FIREHOUSE TABLE
SOMEBODY SAYS TURN ON CHANNEL PLANE CRASHED INTO THE TRADE CENTER THE GUYS GETTING
OFF THE NIGHT TOUR DAY TOUR WE HAD ABOUT SEVEN
TO EIGHT GUYS IN THE KITCHEN THE YOUNG GUYS WERE SAYING LOOK AT THAT LOOK AT THAT
SO MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS SOMEBODY FLEW SMALL CESSNA OR SOME PLANE AND FLEW INTO THE
TOWER WE WERE SITTING THERE AND THE GUYS WERE
LIKE WOW SAID YOU KNOW WHAT WE MAY GO ON THAT BECAUSE US BEING SO CLOSE TO THE BATTERY TUNNEL AND WE WENT THERE IN 93 TO THE TOWERS

SMITH
TWO MINUTES LATER TONES GO OFF 224
RESPOND TO BROOKLYN BATTERY TUNNEL AT THE STAGING AREA THE PLANE CRASHED AT 848 WE GOT THAT
855
GUYS HANGING OVER
WAS LIKE ALL RIGHT
ON WHOS JUMPING ON THE RIG WHOS THE DAY TOUR WHOS TAKING THE
RIDE PS WE START RESPONDING TOWARDS THE
BATTERY TUNNEL
EN ROUTE TO THE TUNNEL MAKING LEFT
OUT OF QUARTERS ON HICKS LEFT ON JORALEMON AND ANOTHER LEFT ON FURMAN HEADING TOWARDS THE
BATTERY TUNNEL THERES WIDE OPEN VIEW AT THE FOOT OF ATLANTIC AVENUE THAT SHOWS THE MANHATTAN SKYLINE
AS IM MAKING THE TURN HEADING TOWARDS COLUMBIA STREET WHICH LEADS INTO THE TUNNEL THE
PROBY ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE RIG YELLS OUT ANOTHER ONE HIT THE TOWER IM DRIVING AND IM
LOOKING IM LOOKING DIDNT SEE THE CRASH BUT COULD SEE THE FLAME THE ORANGE
NOW WE GET TO THE TUNNEL NOW THE WHOLE TIME WERE NOT EVEN THINKING WHEN WE RE
TONE PROBABLY AT ABOUT TO SO NOW THERE WERE
FROM THE NIGHT TOUR AND IT
BA BA BA THINGS WERE GOING

SMITH
RESPONDING THAT IT WAS TERRORIST THING EN ROUTE TO THE TUNNEL THE SECOND PLANE HITTING WE
MEET AT THE TUNNEL WE WERE THERE WITH ABOUT SIX
OTHER COMPANIES WERE STAGING AND HEY HOW YOU DOING HOW YOU DO WHATS GOING ON DO YOU SEE WHATS GOING ON WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO BLAH BLAH BLAH
WITH
BROOKLYN BOUND CHAOTIC AT THE
WERE ON LIKE STREET LEADING
THAT THEYRE TRYING TO GET
TRAFFIC OUT OF THE TUNNEL IT WAS
TOLL PLAZA THERE 224 AND 210 WE RAPELYE STREET WHICH IS SIDE
INTO THE TUNNEL 101 WAS THERE
ALREADY TWO OR THREE OTHER COMPANIES THIS WAY THAT WAY AT ALL DIFFERENT INTERSECTIONS LEADING
INTO THE TOLL PLAZA ALSO WE GOT WORD IT HAD TO BE 908 910 ID SAY ABOUT 910 ALL RIGHT
LETS GO RESPOND TO THE TOWERS SO WE WENT THROUGH THERE SIX OR SEVEN COMPANIES THINK IT
WAS IM NOT SURE IF SEE THE TICKET
SO WE PROCEEDED TO GO THROUGH AND IT WASNT STRAIGHT RUN WE WENT AND WE HAD TO
STOP BECAUSE THEY HAD PORT AUTHORITY GUYS IN THE TUNNEL WHATEVER THEY STILL HAD CARS INSIDE
SO IT WAS GO AND STOP CARS WOULD COME ALONG

SMITH
GO STOP WHICH IS NORMALLY TWO TO
THREE MINUTE RIDE THROUGH THE TUNNEL IT SEEMED
LIKE 20 MINUTES WE WERE IN THAT TUNNEL IT WAS LONG
IT WAS LONG PROBABLY ABOUT TEN
MINUTES
IF THE SECOND PLANE HIT WE WERE AT THE STAGING AREA THERE PROBABLY ABOUT THREE
MINUTES SO BY THE TIME WE CAME OUT OF THE TUNNEL ON THE MANHATTAN SIDE IT HAD TO BE 920 925
WHEN WE CAME OUT OF THE TUNNEL CAME OUT OF THE TUNNEL WENT TO WEST STREET MADE
RIGHT THERE WERE RIGS BACKED UP BACKED UP WE PROCEEDED UP TO THE FRONT OF TOWER ONE WHERE THEY HAD LIEUTENANT THERE DONT HAVE HIS NAME THE TRUCKS WERE GETTING ORDERS AND THE ENGINES WERE GETTING ORDERS
THE TRUCKS WERE JUST THEY WERE
SAYING EVERYBODY GET AS FAR LEFT AS YOU CAN BECAUSE THEY WANT PASSAGEWAY FOR RIGS TO GET IN ME BEING AN ENGINE MY OFFICER GOT ORDERS
FROM THE LIEUTENANT IN THE STREET TELL CHAUFFEUR GET AS FAR LEFT AS HE CAN THERES
YOUR

PUDDLE
SMITH
HYDRANTS ON WEST STREET GET WATER SUPPLY
YOURE GOING TO BE RELAYED YOURE GOING TO FEED BA BA BA THE WHOLE THING
SO WE WENT AS FAR LEFT AS WE CAN AND THERE WERE RIGS COMING IN COMING IN ALL
DIFFERENT ANGLES AND GUYS JUST COMING UP THE RIG
SO PULLED UP TO MY HYDRANT MY MEMBERS GET OFF AND WE TEST THE HYDRANT WE STRETCH OUR 35
FOOT YELLOW HOSE WERE HOOKED UP TO THE HYDRANT
TURNED TO
OF
ONE OF THE BROTHERS IN MY FIREHOUSE
ME AND SAID SMITTY DO YOU SEE THAT TRANNIE FLUID SAID
IF CAN GO BACK LITTLE BIT WHEN WE
CAME OUT OF THE TUNNEL WHEN WE WERE HEADING ON WEST STREET THERE WAS ALL DEBRIS IN THE STREET
AIRPLANE DEBRIS BUILDING DEBRIS BODY DEBRIS
SO AS WE WERE GOING HEADING TOWARDS TO GET OUR ORDERS AT THE TOWER WE WERE SERPENTINING AROUND
BODY PARTS AIRPLANE PARTS BUILDING IT WAS JUST CHAOTIC
MATERIAL
SO IN THE MIDST OF ME DOING THAT
HOOKED UP TO MY HYDRANT GOT MY ORDERS MY BROTHER ONE OF THE OTHER FIREMEN NOTICED THAT

LOOKING
AT THE TOWERS
SO THIS WHOLE THING TOOK MAYBE SEVEN TO
TEN MINUTES HERE IT IS PROBABLY QUARTER TO 10 20 TO 10 IM TRYING TO REPLAY THE TIME IN
MY MIND BUT ITS VERY FOGGY IT MIGHT BE
MINUTES IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN 12 DID THE MANEUVER WITH THE RIG
MADE ME DO IT BUT PERSONALLY
MINUTES BUT WE DONT KNOW WHAT
JUST SAID THE
SMITH
PUNCTURED MY TRANNIE PAN WE HAD BY CIRCLE OF PINK TRANNIE FLUID IN THE STREET AND IM SAYING TO MYSELF AS THE FCC THAT IM GOING TO BE FED IM GOING TO BE SUPPLYING MY RIG CANNOT BREAK DOWN PLUS HAD MY BACK TO THE TOWER
SO DONT KNOW WHAT MADE ME DO IT BUT
REPOSITIONED MY RIG THINK IT WAS MURRAY STREET WHERE ALL THE RIGS WERE WHEN GOT THERE
SO THERE WAS AN OPENING WENT HALF BLOCK AND THERE WAS CROSS STREET THINK IT WAS
MURRAY TURNED MY RIG AROUND AND FACED THE TOWERS WHERE WAS LOOKING AT MY PUMP PANEL AND
GUYS HELPED ME OUT WE REPOSITIONED CAME BACK AROUND HOOKED BACK UP
ME AND ANOTHER FIREMAN PROCEEDED TO GET OUR PUTTY OUT THAT WE PUTTY FOR GAS LEAKS AND

SMITH
EVERYTHING ON THE HIGHWAY WE TOOK PIECE OF CHOCK WE CHOCKED IT UP THE HOLE WAS PROBABLY
ONE BY TWO HOLE IT WAS NICE GASH
OBVIOUSLY RAN OVER SOME AIRPLANE DEBRIS PROPELLER OR WHATEVER ROUGH EDGE BLUNT EDGE
GOUGED MY PAN
SO ANYWAY WE PROCEEDED TO PLUG IT IT WAS STEADY PLUG COMING OUT WHEN WE FINISHED
PROBABLY THREE TO FIVE MINUTES BECAUSE THE FLUID WAS HOT SO IT WAS TOUGH WE HAD TO PLUG STEP BACK WIPE OFF WE WERE GETTING IT DOWN OUR ARMS PS ABOUT FIVE MINUTES WE PLUGGED IT TO SLOW LEAK
OUR GUYS WHO HAD THEIR ROLLUPS AND EVERYTHING READY TO GO IN WOULD SAY
APPROXIMATE NOW WOULD SAY PROBABLY QUARTER TO 10 10 TO 10 AND OUR GUYS SMITTY YOU OKAY
YOU ALL SET YEAH IM ALL SET IM ALL HOOKED UP IM ALL RIGHT
THIS WHOLE TIME WERE WATCHING PEOPLE FROM PROBABLY 95 TO 105 COME OUT OF THE FIRST TOWER JUST COMING EVERY THREE TO FIVE SECONDS THERES ANOTHER ONE THERES ANOTHER ONE
IM TAKING DEEP BREATHS IN THE STREET

SMITH
IM ALMOST GETTING SICK ALL HAD WAS CUP OF COFFEE IN ME JUST COULDNT BELIEVE WHAT WAS
GOING ON IT WAS SICKENING THERE WERE SO MANY URGENTS AND MAYDAYS AND CHAOTIC RADIO
TRANSMISSIONS
ANOTHER PERSON COMING OUT COUPLE
HOLDING HANDS COMING OUT SPLASHING ON THE GROUND COULD SEE THEM COMING DOWN
THREE QUARTERS OF THE WAY BUT WE COULDNT SEE THE SPLASH
OUR GUYS ARE ALL SET THEY START MOVING IN IM STANDING THERE IN GOLF SHIRT
AND SHORTS THE TOWER COMES DOWN
ROLLED UP IN BALL RAN ROLLED UP IN BALL
THEY WERE ALL DONNED UP IN GEAR
SEEING THIS COMING RAN AND HAD TO
JUMP OVER TWO PARKED CARS RAN TWO THREE BLOCKS MYSELF EMS AND OTHER UNITS THAT WERE
STILL THERE IN THE STREET TRYING TO GET SET SO JUMPED OVER TWO PARKED CARS RAN TWO BLOCKS
SO TWO BLOCKS AFTER MURRAY IM NOT SURE WHAT STREET IT IS BUT THERE WERE CARS PARKED ON THE SIDE AND JUST BAILED OVER THESE CARS ROLLED
MY GUYS JUST

GAVE ME RINSE FOR THE EYES WAS LITTLE DISORIENTED
OVER TO ME AND WAS TAKING WATER
THE ONLY THING
MY GUYS WERE BECAUSE KNEW THEY WERE THERE
SMITH 10
UP IN BALL AND JUST LET THE FIRST CLOUD BLOW ME OVER
LITTLE BIT MORE BECAUSE HAD ALL MY THROAT MY EYES EMS GUYS CAME
SO AFTER REGROUPED HACKED
BUT ME BEING IN NON DETECTIVE GEAR JUST DID THE 400 YARD DASH DOWN WEST STREET WAS LITTLE SHAKEN UP
SO AFTER WAS TENDED TO EYE RINSE AND
WASHING OUT MY THROAT PROCEEDED TO FIND MY MEMBERS AND WE ALL EMBRACED IN THE MIDDLE OF
WEST STREET ARE YOU ALL RIGHT ARE YOU OKAY GOOD GOOD
ONE OF THE GUYS THAT WAS OFF DUTY HE WAS WITH ME WHEN WE RAN HE DIDNT HAVE MASK SO HE STAYED WITH ME HE NEVER CAME BACK TO THE
PACK SO RAN ANOTHER BLOCK TO SEE IF HE WAS ALL RIGHT COULDNT FIND HIM MET UP WITH THE
GUYS AGAIN EVERYBODY OKAY
WITH THAT GUYS THAT WERE ON THE OUTER
UP
THAT STUFF IN
BUT WAS FINE
WANTED TO KNOW IS HOW

SMITH 11
PART OF THE COLLAPSE WERE COMING OUT TOOK OUT FIRST AID STUFF PUT IT ON THE BACK STEP OF THE
RIG THE RIG WAS JUST WHITED OUT GLASS TAKEN OUT JUST WHITED OUT EVERYTHING SMOKE DEBRIS
MEAN JUST DEBRIS DUST
SO WE TOOK OUR MEDICAL EMS STUFF OUT
PUT IT ON THE BACK STEP THERE WERE GUYS ON THE OUTER PART OF THE DEBRIS GUYS COMING OUT WITH GLASS HANGING OUT OF THEIR FOREHEAD GUYS COULDNT SEE THEIR EYES WERE CAKED THEY COULDNT BREATHE BECAUSE THEY HAD NO BREATHING APPARATUS ON THEY GOT CAUGHT UP IN THE BALL
WE WERE JUST TENDING TO OURSELVES
MAKING SURE EVERYBODY WAS OKAY WHAT WENT ON WAS
JUST BULLSHIT UNCONTROLLABLE THIS IS CRAZY OKAY EVERYBODYS OKAY YOURE REGROUPED THE
OFFICERS EVERYBODY ALL RIGHT BA BA LETS MAKE SURE WE KNOW WHAT WERE DOING HERE SMITTY ARE
YEAH
WENT TO THE RIG THEY PROCEEDED TO HEAD TOWARDS THE TOWER AGAIN THE SECOND TOWER
COMES DOWN STILL HAVE NO PROTECTION IM
STILL WHITED OUT THE SECOND TOWER THE CLOUD OF
DEBRIS WAS TWICE AS BIG AS THE INITIAL ONE
YOU OKAY

SMITH 12
KNEW DID THIS DASH HEFORE KNEW AINT GOING TO DIE IN WEST STREET THIS WAY
KNEW THERE WERE BROTHERS IN THERE AFTER THE FIRST ONE IM NOT EVEN THINKING ABOUT
HOW IM DOING JUST KNOW THAT THERES
CASUALTIES NOT ONLY CIVILIANS FROM JUMPING
KNOW THERES 45 MINUTES OF RESPOND TIME WORTH OF
BROTHERS IN THERE
PS THE SECOND TOWER COMES DOWN EVERY
MAN FOR HIMSELF DID ANOTHER 400 YARD DASH DOWN THERE WERE SO MANY PEOPLE COMING OUT OF
THE SCENE ALREADY COULDNT GET TO WHERE WENT TO THE LAST TIME SO ENDED UP RUNNING TOWARDS
STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL THERE WERE PEOPLE RUNNING IN THERE SO COULD SEE THEM FROM
DISTANCE SO THATS WHY MADE STRAIGHT LINE MADE LEFT ANGLED TURN HEADED TOWARDS THE
OUTSIDE LOBBY OF STUYVESANT
AS WAS GOING THERE THE CLOUD WAS ON
THE BACK OF MY HEAD COULD FEEL IT JUST LUNGED TO THE DOOR AS WAS LUNGING GUY
OPENED IT UP AND DARTED INSIDE THEY ME
TENDED TO
WAS NOT SHAKEN UP NOT UPSET WAS

SMITH 13
OUT OF SORTS OUT OF SYNC DIDNT KNOW WHAT TO ANTICIPATE WAS GOING ON WHAT CAN WE DO THERE
WAS NO RADIO TRANSMISSION HAD AN EMPTY
FEELING IN MY STOMACH
THEN GO BACK TO SEE WHERE MY GUYS ARE
AGAIN BECAUSE IM FINE KNEW MY GUYS THEY HAD ALL THEIR GEAR ON THEY WERENT GOING TO RUN AS FAST AS WAS SO WE WENT BACK THERE AND MADE
SURE EVERYBODY WAS OKAY THERE WAS MORE CRAZY STUFF IN THE STREET THERE WAS BLEEDING
CIVILIANS COMING OUT IT WAS HYSTERIA IN THE STREET
WENT TO MY GUYS EVERYTHING WAS OKAY SMITTY ARE YOU ALL RIGHT WERE
HUGGING KISSING MAKING SURE WERE ALL HERE
ALL OF SUDDEN HEAR ON THE RADIO TRANSMISSION
OKAY 224 START WATER IM SAYING IM 224 MY OFFICER IS RIGHT THERE SAID LOU
ANYWAY TO MAKE WHEN REPOSITIONED MY RIG
LONG STORY SHORT WAS THE ONLY RIG
FACING THE TOWERS EVERYBODY WHO WAS COMING IN
FROM BROOKLYN FROM THE BATTERY TUNNEL WERE FACING GOING DOWN WEST STREET WAS FACING THE TOWERS
SO THEY OBVIOUSLY MOVED MY RIG REPOSITIONED MY

SMITH 14
RIG FROM WEST AND MURRAY TO TWO TWO AND HALF
BLOCKS UP RIGHT ON WEST ON VESEY RIGHT UP AT WEST AND THEY STARTED TO RELAY FROM MARINE UNIT
TO 57 ENGINE 84 ENGINE FEEDING ME WAS FEEDING 33 ENGINE WHO WAS FEEDING THE MANIFOLD
WENT BACK TO MY RIG IT HAD TO BE FIVE MINUTES AFTER THE SECOND TOWER CAME DOWN AND
PUMPED FROM ABOUT 1100 AM UNTIL QUARTER TO 11
THAT NIGHT MY CAPTAIN FINALLY CAME ON THE SCENE PROBABLY ABOUT 1200 AND HE TOOK CHARGE AND MADE
SURE THE GUYS WERE OKAY STAYED WITH MY RIG UNTIL ABOUT 1030 1100 QUARTER TO 11 AT NIGHT
THEY BACKED ME OFF THE RIG BECAUSE
SEVEN WAS IN DEAD JEOPARDY SO THEY BACKED EVERYBODY OFF AND MOVED US TO THE REAR END OF
VESEY STREET WE JUST STOOD THERE FOR HALF HOUR 40 MINUTES BECAUSE SEVEN WAS IN IMMINENT
COLLAPSE AND FINALLY DID COME DOWN THEN WE PROCEEDED TO PUMP ANOTHER SIX HOURS
WAS TOLD TO GO BACK TO THE FIREHOUSE JUMP ON THE FIRST BUS OUT OF THERE RELAXED
BECAUSE TO MY GROUP WAS ON MUTUAL THAT DAY
WAS WORKING FOR SOMEBODY WASNT EVEN SUPPOSED TO WORK MY GROUP WAS DUE IN
ANYWAY

SMITH 15
TOMORROW MORNING AT 0900 THEY WANTED ME HERE
SO THE CAPTAIN PICKED FEW GUYS THEY HAD TO STAY THE GUYS THAT WERE HERE ALL THIS
MORNING WHATEVER YOU GUYS GO HOME SO INSTEAD OF STAYING IN THE FIREHOUSE TOLD HIM IM GOING TO GO HOME
IN THE MIDST OF ALL THIS CALLED MY WIFE AND LET HER KNOW WAS FINE CALLED MY MOTHER AND ALL THE FAMILY BECAUSE IT WAS
LITTLE KNEW MY WIFE WOULD BE BASKET CASE BECAUSE SHE KNOWS WAS THERE IN 93 MY ONE SON IS UP IN COLLEGE AT MARIST HE KNEW WAS THERE IN 93 HE KNOWS IM FIVE MINUTES AWAY FROM THE TUNNEL THEYRE WATCHING IT ON TV WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY KNEW WAS ALL RIGHT
MY WIFE SAID SAW TOMMY ON TV THEY SAW ME FLEEING FROM THE SCENE SO WENT
HOME THAT NIGHT WAS SHAKEN UP WAS FINE ON THE WAY HOME WHEN WE CAME BACK TO THE
FIREHOUSE LITTLE AFTER 1100 THAT WAS THE
FIRST TIME SAW THE ACTUAL FOOTAGE ON TV WE STAYED THERE FOR AN HOUR AND HALF AND WE
TALKED WITH THE BROTHERS
THEN PROCEEDED TO DRIVE HOME WAS

SMITH 16
FINE BLOCK AWAY FROM MY HOUSE KNOWING MY
WIFE AND MY THREE OTHER KIDS WERE WAITING FOR ME
JUST LOST IT WATCHED IT ON TV FOR ANOTHER THREE HOURS WITH MY WIFE AND KIDS AND COULDNT SLEEP WOKE UP ABOUT WAS HERE BY 800 AND WENT UP THERE FOR THE 12TH AND WE DID OUR PART DIGGING DIGGING DIGGING
WE ALL CAME BACK BUT UNFORTUNATELY THE GUYS THAT WE MET OUTSIDE THE BATTERY TUNNEL THAT
MORNING THE SIX OR SEVEN COMPANIES THAT WERE THERE 118 WENT OVER THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE SO LET ME REMEMBER THIS 101 WAS THERE 226 WAS THERE 279 WAS THERE 35 38 GUYS DONT KNOW HOW MANY EXTRAS THAT WERE ON EACH RIG 19 OR 20
OF THEM DIDNT COME BACK
IM JUST GLAD TO BE HERE DONT KNOW IF ITS GUILT COMPLEX THING BUT ILL NEVER FORGET IT WAS THE MOST TRAUMATIC DAY IN MY
LIFE SAID IT TEN TIMES IN THE STREET IVE
GOT 18 AND HALF YEARS ON THE JOB IVE GOT THREE SONS THEY ALL WANT TO COME ON THE JOB
SAID IT TEN TIMES IN THE STREET THAT DAY SAID THIS IS IT ILL FIGHT FIRES UNTIL IM 65 YEARS OLD BUT CANT CONTROL IT THIS IS BULLSHIT

SMITH 17
BUT WAS JUST CONCERNED ABOUT GUYS
THAT KNEW THAT WERE UNACCOUNTED FOR THEN THE TWELVE WE MET AT 211 WE WENT OVER THERE HAD TO GO ON THE BUS THEY HAD THE LIST OF THE UNACCOUNTED MEMBERS THATS JUST TOUGH NUT TO SWALLOW
THATS MY TAKE ON THAT WHOLE MORNING FROM 905 TO 1055 WAS AT THE SCENE WAS BACK THERE 0900 THE NEXT MORNING WE DID 24 ON
24 OFF WENT THERE IN BETWEEN FEW TOURS
IM JUST COMING BACK JUST TOOK VACATION JUST CAME BACK FROM MY VACATION
CAME BACK AND HAD WHAT THEY CALLED THE WTC COUGH IVE BEEN COUGHING SINCE SOME SHIT
NIGHTS SLEEPING IM JUST HAPPY TO BE HERE CHIEF
THANKS SMITTY
CHIEF KING THE TIME IS 1615 HOURS AND THIS INTERVIEW IS COMPLETE THANK YOU
File No. 9110247
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER RICHARD SAULLE
   Interview Date:  December 6, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
R. SAULLE 2
          CHIEF KING:  Today's date is December
     6th, 2001.  The time is 1735 hours.  This is
     Battalion Chief Stephen J. King from Safety
     Battalion, FDNY.  I'm conducting an
     interview with Firefighter Richard Saulle
     from Engine Company 224 regarding the events
     of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Richard, you can start whenever you
want.
     A.   To start off with, I was in the shower,
because I have this fetish about taking a shower
before every shift.  No matter if it's the first
half or the second half of the 24, I always take
a shower.  So unfortunately I was caught in the
shower.
          The run came in.  Somebody came running
up and said a plane just hit the tower.  I said,
"What are you talking about?"  I thought they
were trying to get me out of the shower, maybe
flour me or do something hilarious like they
normally do, or somebody will turn the water off.
So here I am, I jump in my shorts, just a regular
work shirt and a pair of shoes, no socks, no
drawers.  Here I go, I'm down.
R. SAULLE 3
          The tones went off, responded.  The
first response was to respond to the World Trade
Center.  Then the second one came in as we were
driving out of quarters to report to Rapelye
Street at the base of the Battery Tunnel.  That
was the second one that came in.
          So we sat there and waited.  I believe
we must have waited there until they were
clearing the tunnel out.  That was just my logic.
There were cars coming in there.  They shut it
down, cleared the tunnel out.  We were getting
ready to go through as a convoy with the rest of
the fire engines and fire trucks going through
there.
          I was on the chauffeur side of the rig,
back of the chauffeur, like I normally sit when I
ride in the back, unless I have the pipe.  A
young kid, Joe Sullivan, said, "Why is this plane
flying through the smoke?  Holy shit, he hit the
second tower."  I said, "Get the hell out of
here."  I stuck my head out the window, and I
looked up and I was amazed what I saw.  Both
towers were on fire, and I said we're in a lot of
trouble.
R. SAULLE 4
          So we started going through the tunnel,
and I said we're in a lot of trouble.  They're
coming with more planes.  This is terrorism.  My
brain started -- I'm not the sharpest tool in the
shed.  Guys will tell you I say that about myself
all the time.  I said, they're coming, they're
going to hit the tunnels, they're going to hit
the bridges.
          So my mind told me to say good-bye to
everybody.  So I reached across and I said to
Hazel, "Good-bye, Mike, it's been nice working
with you for 16 years."  "Joe Sullivan, I'm sorry
you're only on the job a couple of months."
          I told Bradbury, who was sitting
opposite me, "Kevin, I know we don't like one
another very much," because me and him are always
bickering, but we still like each other.  That
was just our way, we always fight with each
other.  I said, "Goodbye, Kev."  Then I hit
Smitty in the back of the head and I said,
"Smitty, you still owe me $15.  When we get up to
heaven, you better pay me."
          This kid, Stu Bailey, was in the middle
of the officer and the chauffeur in the front,
R. SAULLE 5
and I told him the same thing.  I said, "You owe
me $5 if you remember too."  Then Desimone, I
said, "Desimone, I'll see you at the big one."
          Then we proceeded.  We got through the
tunnel.  What we saw on the floor was amazing.
There were plane parts, cars wrecked, body parts.
It looked like Tales of the Crypt.  There were
arms sticking up in the air, and bodies were just
shredded all over the place.
          There was a car that we drove by that
the driver's door and the passenger door were
open, and there was a plane motor on the back
half of the car.  Two inches more, and both these
guys would have been dead too.  That was their
ticket.  It was amazing.  The car was actually
cut right in half with this motor, right there
back of the front seat.  I sat there in
amazement.
          Then we drove.  Smitty is very
aggressive, just like I am when I drive.  We kind
of hit a couple of bumps when we went over.  I
don't know what it was.  But we got to a point in
front of the two buildings.  We looked up, and
the flames were coming and the bodies were coming
R. SAULLE 6
down and splattering on the street like
watermelons.
          Chief told us to supply an engine
company in front of the building, find a hydrant.
We started rolling up, and as we rolled up Kevin
says, "Hey, we have a transmission leak."  There
was a puddle about two feet around of
transmission fluid.
          So we got to the spot, which was
probably another 50 feet up.  The first hydrant
that we saw that was open, squeezing through all
kinds of fire trucks that were angled all over
the place.  It was just the way everybody just
parks and just gets out and runs.
          So I climbed under the rig, and there
was a little cut, about an inch cut, with a
little drip hole coming out from the
transmission.  I need a chock.  I said, "I need a
chock.  Do we have a chock?"  I started jamming.
The chock was too big.
          So I actually started gnawing at it
with my teeth.  I made like a miniature size
toothpick out of this, and I jammed it in there.
It still was dripping.  I had to put the goop on
R. SAULLE 7
there, and it worked pretty well.
          As I did that, that's when the first
tower fell.  As soon as I finished, got up, the
tower came down.  We heard somebody saying, "Sh."
That's how the tower sounded coming down,
"Shhhhhh."  That's all you heard it, a big shush.
The tower came down.
          Hazel said to me, "It's going to get
awfully dark in a minute," and that's exactly
what it did.  It just wiped us out.  Nobody had
masks on.  People were running at us, knocking us
over.  It got black.  You thought it was night.
It was like night for five minutes.
          The first thing that came to mind is,
we all had masks on and everything, but we didn't
don them.  It didn't dawn on us until after the
fact.  We must have donned them a minute after
this building came down and after the blackness
hit us, because we didn't have time between
people running you over and worrying about Joe
Sullivan, make sure the proby was next to us, and
Bailey, who had nothing but shorts on.  He had
dress shorts on.
          After the first building came down and
R. SAULLE 8
it finally cleared, it was like somebody blew
pillows up.  It was just dust in the air, totally
dust.  A couple of guys came walking out of the
pile, truckies, because they had their tools with
them.
          One guy had an ax, one guy had a
halogen, and they were actually throwing their
halogen and axes on the floor in frustration and
pissed off.  Maybe somebody they knew got wiped
out in front of them, maybe what they saw.  One
of them looked like he was scalped because the
whole back of his head was opened up.
          So we grabbed the EMS bag and we
started bandaging his head, we washed him out.
We actually washed his head out with booster
water, which was rusty.  The rig wasn't hooked up
to a hydrant yet, and that's all we had, whatever
we had, the 500 gallons in the tank.
          We started washing his head off because
the stuff was like glue.  It was stuck to him.
It didn't come off by just washing it.  You had
to rub and wash.  So we washed the back of his
head off, and this guy was so -- he was cursing
up a storm.  He was worried about what happened
R. SAULLE 9
to him.  He didn't even realize that the whole
back of his head was ripped open.
          So we were bandaging two guys heads,
and then I guess it must have been a worker came
out of the building.  He had just a white shirt
on.  He was covered.  When he opened up his eyes,
it looked like the Little Rascals in the film
when the guy got covered in stuff and you just
saw the whites of his eyes.  He was black.  He
couldn't see.  So we proceeded to wash him and
rub him down.
          Geez, about a couple of minutes after
that, here come the second tower on us.  The
first tower was in the way of the second tower.
When the first tower came down, the second tower
was blocking it in our hitting range.  I figured
this tower is definitely going to get us, because
now we were closer, and there was no building to
block it.  I thought this is it, we're getting
wiped out again.
          We ran down the street.  We must have
gained 30 yards, 30 yards at most, and it was
like you were running as fast as you can and
somebody shoved you in the back of the head and
R. SAULLE 10
you went head over heels tumbling, because the
force of the wind was incredible.  It knocked you
over.
          There was a guy actually on his hands
and knees begging to me, "I have no mask.  Don't
leave me here.  I don't want to die."  I slapped
this guy -- I don't know, he's from an engine
company, because he had a black face piece.  I
slapped him and I said, "It's dust, stupid.  It's
dust.  You're not going to die.  Relax."
          Then when the lieutenant heard me
yelling at the guy and hitting him, he came
crawling over and he said, "I have no mask."  I
said, "Listen, we're going to buddy share this
mask.  If you try and take it away, I swear to
God I'll knock you on your ass," just like that.
I said, "It's dust.  Go like this.  That's all
you have to do.  Put your coat over your mouth."
These guys, they lost it, totally lost it.
          The second tower came down.  The same
thing, blackness for longer this time.  It was
ten minutes now.  Finally the dust cleared, and
it was like panic.  People were running.  The
whole street was running at us.
R. SAULLE 11
          The chief was telling us, "I want
everybody 300 feet back," because we didn't know
if any other buildings, from the shock, or
undermining or anything else if they were going
to weaken any other buildings.  He said, "I want
everybody 300 feet down."
          We walked all the way down.  There was
a couple of fire hydrants that were open.  There
were thousands of people giving us bottles of
water.  It was amazing.  It was like a candy
store in the street:  water, drinks, this, that.
Within minutes everybody was getting it.  Trucks
were there with food.
          I jumped in a puddle because there was
a fire hydrant running, and I washed this stuff
off me, because, like I said, it was glue.  I
washed my helmet in the water.  I had it all down
my neck.  I was breaking it, and everything,
because it was gagging you.
          After that it just ended right there
for a while.  It was like stagnant for a while.
Then finally we heard the total recall.  We heard
the radio, we tried to listen to radio stations.
Then everybody had radios around us.  They hit
R. SAULLE 12
this, they hit that, they hit this.
          It was like oh, my God, we're in the
middle of like a world war over here.  They're
hitting everything.  I said they're going to hit
more.  I thought they were going to hit another
building by us, because there were a couple
buildings -- as we walked down West Street, there
was a couple of big buildings that we were
getting to.
          I said, "Listen, they're going to start
hitting this because this is the next tallest
building.  I said this is no good either.  You're
better off staying right here."  In between this
tall building, in between the towers, this is a
regular low area.  I said you're better off
saying over here, and we did.  We kind of like
shacked up on the curb.  It amazed me.
          (Interruption.)
     A.   So now we're just sitting there it
seemed like an hour, an hour and a half goes by,
and we said what the hell are we doing?  So we
started walking back towards what I guess they
gave it the name now ground zero.  They might
have given it the next day or whatever.
R. SAULLE 13
          We were walking back towards that.
Guys were just sprawled out all over the place.
Who was there, who has a bandage on their head,
who was just sitting there with their mouth open.
It was terrible.  It was terrible.  You knew guys
were dead.  You knew guys were really dead.
          It was hours, it must have been.  We
were trying to find the rest of the guys, because
the recall was there.  So we started walking --
you're walking in this stuff, and it was just
like powder.  So we were walking and breathing
this shit all day long.  It was like an inch
thick.  No matter where you looked, everywhere,
blocks away, it was an inch thick.  We're walking
in this rubble, and nobody has a mask on.  It
only lasts for 17 minutes.
          We walked down Vesey all the way
around -- we actually found where the rig was,
where Smitty was actually pumping water.  He was
pumping water for a few hours.  Before that we
packed up into a hotel, and they said there were
some sandwiches up on one of the upper floors.
So we ran to get a sandwich and thought of
Smitty.  We came around and gave him half a
R. SAULLE 14
sandwich.
          Then it creeped up until it must have
been 2:00 in the morning they were ordering guys.
They took a head count.  Everybody had to report
in.  There were a few guys that were missing, but
we got a head count of our whole company.  Then
they said, "Anybody on the day shift, you have to
go home.  You're ordered to go home."  I said,
"I'm not going home.  I'm staying with my rig.
I'm here.  I'm not going anywhere."
          Our captain was there, Captain Quinn,
at that time.  Now he's a chief.  A few days
later after that they made him a chief, the next
rank up.  He ordered us to go home.  I said, "I'm
not going home."  He said, "I'm telling you, go,
that's it.  You've had enough.  Go home.  See you
tomorrow."  He said there's buses on West Street.
          I walked for three miles on West
Street.  We didn't see a bus at all.  There was
like seven of us that were walking back.  This
guy Pacheco, who was one of the recall guys, he
had an interview with I guess a Puerto Rican
station.  So they wanted him to talk a little
Puerto Rican, and he started talking, and the
R. SAULLE 15
rest of the guys filtered up.  They must have
jumped on the bus, and we missed the bus.
          So me, Smith and Pacheco were left
behind.  We walked for three miles on West Street
until we found nothing.  There was a Con Edison
crew there that we actually begged them, "Do us a
favor.  We just want to go home.  We're tired."
It's now 3:00 in the morning.  We're exhausted.
We want to go home.
          One of the guys said, "I'll take them
home.  I'll take them.  Where are you?"  I said,
"We're right over the Brooklyn Bridge, right
there on Hicks Street."  "That's no problem, but
you have to get deconned first."  Ai-yie-yie.
          So here we are, stripped naked as a
jaybird.  We had to get washed down with ice-cold
water from the fire hydrant.  They gave us these
coveralls.  They put all our stuff in red bags,
double taped them, gave us all the stuff.
          Normally when something like this
happens, they say usually you take everything
that's on you.  I had the commissary money on me.
I had $600 in my right pocket.  I said they're
not getting that.  I ripped open the kneecaps,
R. SAULLE 16
the pads in the bunker pants, and I stuck it in
there.  I said they're not getting the money.  I
closed it back up.  So I had the $600 on my right
knee just about from 3:00 in the morning on.  I
said, "Sh, they're going to confiscate all our
money.  I put all my money in the kneecap."
          They dropped us off and wound up giving
us back our bags.  So the first thing I did is I
ripped my bag open and let all this air and shit
out in the firehouse.  The whole firehouse was
white from everybody else coming in with their
bags.
          I didn't even go home.  I just went
upstairs and went to bed, I was so exhausted.
The only thing is my wife was trying to get in
touch with me the whole day.  She didn't know.  A
couple of guys told her, "I don't know.  I don't
know where he is.  I don't know."  So she was
kind of on pins and needles all day.
          I woke up about 9:00 in the morning,
9:30.  My eyes usually open up at 6:00.  I was so
overexhausted that I got three extra hours in
there.
          When I got home, I collapsed on the
R. SAULLE 17
floor like a baby -- I have to say that -- right
on the floor.  I don't know why I did it, but my
legs just gave out from under me as soon as I
walked in my door.  My wife and my kid was home,
and my puppy.  I just got a dog.
          The only thing I wanted was to kiss
that dog, kiss my wife.  All four of us were on
the floor.  My dog was ballistic because he was
licking the three us.  He was licking us up,
going from person to person and licking us up.
It was amazing.  It was amazing.
          My legs buckled.  They never did that
before.  Actually they probably buckled one other
time.  When I had my first son in the hospital, I
got the jitters.  But other than that, I usually
hold everything.  You know, I cry at funerals.
That's me.  I'm a little weak.  But the weak
legs, I usually never have them.
          That's my story.
          CHIEF KING:  The time is 1755 hours,
     and we're concluding the interview.
File No. 9110248
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER STUART BAILEY
   Interview Date:  December 6, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
S. BAILEY
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KING:  Today's date is
December 6, 2001.  The time is 1715 hours and this is
Battalion Chief Stephen King, Safety Battalion, FDNY.
I'm conducting an interview with Firefighter Stuart
Bailey from Engine Co. 224, and this interview is
concerning the events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Stuart, you can start the interview.  Just
tell me what position you had that day.
     A.   I actually didn't have a position that day.
I was one of the guys that took the run-in being off
duty.
     Q.   Okay.  Tell us your story of what you saw
that day.
     A.   I worked that night in Ladder 101, the night
before, and got relieved there around 8:20, came here,
got in the house around 8:30.  We responded shortly
after that on the first plane, took the run-in, jumped
on a rig with another kid, Joe Sullivan, a proby.  We
both took the run-in, both were off duty.
          We got to the staging area by the Battery
Tunnel.  Before we were going into the tunnel, we were
pretty much just watching it, just watching the first
plane.  I believe the second plane hit as we were going
into the tunnel, or possibly as we were going to the
S. BAILEY
3
staging area, the second plane wound up hitting.
          At that time we realized -- the kid in the
back, the proby, said it was a terrorist attack.  No
one even realized what actually was going on.  We just
thought this plane accidentally hit, until that second
plane hit, then we realized what was actually
happening.
          Maybe ten minutes after being at the staging
area, they started moving the rigs into the tunnel.  As
we were going into the tunnel, one of the kids that was
actually walking with his gear -- I can't even recall
his name, but there's a big article.  The guys know his
name -- actually asked Tommy Smith, who was the
chauffeur, if he could jump on the back of the rig.  I
didn't even realize that he jumped on, neither did
Tommy or anyone else, until maybe later on, then we
realized the kid actually did jump on the rig.  I
believe he was lost.  He was missing.
          When we pulled out of the tunnel, the way I
saw it, they couldn't keep us really right there by the
tunnel.  We had to proceed past the building because of
all the rigs that were behind us.  I guess it would
have delayed them from getting in.  We would have been
backing up the tunnel pretty much.  So they kind of had
S. BAILEY
4
everything blocked off and we kind of swerved around
debris from the plane, body parts pretty much
everywhere.  That's the first time I've ever seen
anything like that.   I'm sure no one did.
          Then I believe we went to get a hydrant.  We
had a pretty close hydrant to the Trade Center itself,
pretty much almost right out in front, and a Lieutenant
started screaming at Tommy Smith that he wanted the rig
moved.  He wanted to stand out front, I guess, to relay
water or to help out with that, getting water over
there.  So that guy actually moved Tommy from pretty
much in front of the Trade Center to a little bit
further where we wound up being on Vesey and West
Street, over there.
          At that time both buildings were going, both
planes had already hit the building, and we were just
standing there.  I looked up, realized the
transmission, our transmission, from riding over the
rubble that was on the ground, the remains of the
plane, ruptured our transmission tank, so transmission
fluid was leaking.  Tommy noticed that.  So we kind of
spent an extra five minutes or so kind of trying to
plug that in.  I guess the guys rendered it useless at
that time, it would have been useless if we didn't do
S. BAILEY
5
that, you know, just another story out there of how you
get saved.  But the guys got off their gear.
          Guys all had their gear.  I didn't have any
gear on me.  I didn't realize.  I was just going in for
the ride.  I thought it was just a regular fire, a
little bit bigger than regular.  But as we're standing
there, the guys had all their tanks on.  I didn't have
anything.  Tommy didn't have anything.  So we were kind
of like maybe even a step back from everyone else,
realizing what's happening, jumpers.  You didn't
realize, until you actually looked and saw arms and
legs waving, exactly what was happening, you know, one
after another.  There must have been three or four
dozen that jumped out right there while we were
standing there, just in amazement, exactly what
actually was happening.
          Then all of a sudden, the further tower, the
south tower, I think it is, the first one that went
down, the south tower went down.  We really didn't
realize that it was actually the whole building going
down.  It looked like just maybe a side or something
because you couldn't really see because the other one
was in the way, and then you realized exactly what
happened because, as you saw on the TV, all the smoke,
S. BAILEY
6
that pretty much came up ten stories high, 15 stories
high, pretty much just came right at us.
          Asses and elbows, you know, we just started
running every which way.  I think I might have actually
ran a little bit further than everyone else being I had
no gear on me or anything like that.  I couldn't take a
knee and just let everything blow over me.  So I was
kind of out in the front.  I might have even ran an
extra block or two before I turned around and just
realized there was nobody even with me.
          I would say it was 15, 20, 25 minutes before
that cloud kind of dissipated even a little bit.  I
started working my way back slow, relaxing, just taking
it easy, realizing what's happening.  I would say about
a half a block away from there, I came back with my
company again, not even knowing what happened to them
because they weren't even near me, the second one came
down.  I ran again.  It might have even been another
block I ran.
          At that time jets were coming over your head
and you didn't know what was happening.  Is that our
guys?  It didn't even dawn on me that it was our guys.
It was just this happened here, big buildings are all
around, they're still hitting us.
S. BAILEY
7
          It must have been another half an hour until
I kind of got on my feet and just was like, okay, let
me start working my way back.  At that time guys from
other companies were kind of there also, so I wound up
hooking up with some kids from different companies.  A
kid from 20 Truck was there, a Lieutenant from 34,
Lieutenant Winkler was there.  I hooked up with them
and I actually wound up not even seeing my company
until maybe 11:00 o'clock that night, you know, working
without anything.  I wound up getting gear later on.
Maybe a couple hours later I was able to get gear on
the side, no bunker coat, no helmet, just pants.
          I just pretty much worked through the whole
night.  I wound up finding out that they were actually
alive from one of the guys from 202 that was actually
on our side.  Somehow or another I wound up being on
the other side of the building.  I wasn't even on the
side where we were.  I wound up being on the other
side.  I saw a kid from 202 and he showed me a way how
to get to the other side to where 224 was.  He let me
know that the guys were okay.  That was at 11:00
o'clock at night maybe I hooked up with them.
          Then we went back to the house by bus like
1:30 in the morning, you know, finally taking the bus
S. BAILEY
8
in.  That's pretty much it.  I went back to work the
next day.
          BATTALION CHIEF KING:  Okay.  Thank you,
Stuart.  The time is 1723 hours and I'm concluding the
interview with Firefighter Bailey.
File No. 9110249
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
     FIREFIGHTER DOMINICK MUSCHELLO
   Interview Date:  December 6, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
                  D. MUSCHELLO                  2
          CHIEF KING:  Today's date is December
     6th, 2001.  The time is 1831 hours.  This is
     Battalion Chief Stephen King, Safety
     Battalion, FDNY.  I'm conducting an
     interview with Firefighter Dominick
     Muschello from Ladder Company 119.  This
     interview is concerning the events of
     September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Dominick, you can start any time you
want.
     A.   I worked the 6 by 9 tour the day before
and the day of September 11th.  We saw the smoke
when the first plane hit the towers from
headquarters here because we have a clear view to
the World Trade Center, but it was obstructed by
the factory across the street from the first
floor.  So we went up to the third floor to see
what it was, and we noticed that it was the World
Trade Center.
          At that point we flipped the TV on in
the gym, which is on the third floor.  There's a
TV up there.  We were watching the news, and they
said a plane had hit.  Plus a marshal had come
in.  The marshals are also in the building.  He
                  D. MUSCHELLO                  3
said he got on his pager that a plane had hit the
tower and it wasn't just a bomb or a fire.
          As we watched the fire from the third
floor, we saw the second plane fly right into the
center of the building clear as day, because
there were about two or three of us up in the gym
at that point.
          I kind of thought we were going to go
before that happened.  But once the second plane
hit, I knew we were going over there and then you
knew that it wasn't any type of an accident, two
planes, a terrorist.  Then you started thinking
it was going to be a long day.  A lot of people
definitely got hurt over there that day.
          We got the alarm I think our ticket
said 9:08.  We were actually first due on the
ticket to the second tower, out right first due
on the first alarm.
          So going over, looking at the towers as
we were starting to go over the bridge -- I'm not
the chauffeur, so I don't know what bridge we
went over, but I believe it was the Brooklyn
Bridge.  I just remember saying to myself I hope
they don't blow this bridge up on the way over,
                  D. MUSCHELLO                  4
because I had a real bad feeling I wasn't going
to come home that day.  By the way everything
looked, I had a feeling it was going to be a bad
day.
          When we got to the Trade Center, we had
a hard time getting close because of all the
debris that was falling from the building.  So we
parked I believe, near the corner of Church and
Dey near that old church there, along that street
with the wrought iron railing.
          I remember walking down there.  We were
going to make a left and head down towards
Liberty because we were first due to the second
tower.  We were going to go down Church to
Liberty, but there was too much debris falling.
So we made a right, and we went down Vesey or one
of those streets, whatever streets goes over to
the West Side Highway, around tower one.
          As we were walking up, the jumpers were
jumping clear as day, hitting the street and the
marquis from tower one right in front of us on
the West Side Highway there.  That was a very
disturbing sight.
          There was the walkway that goes across
                  D. MUSCHELLO                  5
right there that's no longer there, that walkway
that goes across the West Side Highway.  When we
reached that walkway, we stopped for a second
because there were so many people jumping we were
afraid of getting hit by jumpers.
          We walked across the street underneath
that walkway, and at that point when we got
across the street, that's where there was a
command post set up, just maybe 100 feet south of
that walkway on the northwest side of the West
Side Highway.  That's where the command post had
been moved to, which we did not know at that
point.  We were going in to the lobby to the
command post.
          When we got to that command post, the
chief, which I don't remember who it was, but I
do remember seeing Chief Nigro there.  I don't
know if he was there when we got there or if he
got there after us.  Chief Ganci was down the
road just another 30 feet or so.  We were told to
stay at that command center.  It looked like
there were about four or five other companies
there.
          While standing on the sidewalk, I
                  D. MUSCHELLO                  6
looked up at the tower and I said to the captain,
"Captain, this is not a good place to stand."  I
said, "If this building comes down, we have
nowhere to run."  He said that's a good idea.
          We moved in front of this garage door.
That luckily was open.  We stood in front of the
garage door.  It was a basement-entering garage,
a garage ramp, underground garage door there.  I
think it was Two World Financial Center building
or one of the buildings there.  We stood up on
the sidewalk but knew that we had the garage to
run into if anything happened.
          We were kind of wondering why we were
still standing there.  I kept asking the captain,
"Captain, what's going on?  Let's go in the
building."  He said that there was a mayday given
for a company -- I don't remember which company.
I'm sure he'll have that information.
          The command post chief told us, or the
lieutenant or the captain at the command post
told us we're getting a so-called rescue team
together.  We're putting together three engines,
two trucks, and we're going in for the company
that's giving the mayday.  I believe we had three
                  D. MUSCHELLO                  7
engines and one truck and we were just waiting
for the second truck to come.
          All of a sudden it felt like a train
was pulling in, and the second tower came down.
I only looked at that tower for a split second or
two and knew it was time to run.  Everybody ran
into the garage.  Upon running into the garage,
there were people in front of me and there were
people in back of me.  You couldn't see anywhere.
It was running into darkness.
          I hid behind a pillar.  I didn't know
there was a way out.  I wasn't thinking there was
a way out.  It was definitely every man for
himself.  There wasn't one person looking out for
anybody else, which is understandable.
          I didn't realize there was a rear door.
There was a staircase that went up to -- and they
were able to get out of the rear.  I wasn't
thinking that fast.  I wasn't following the guys
running in deep, deep, deep into this garage.  I
went in about 40 feet and dove behind a column.
I didn't figure I had much more time than that.
          I kneeled in the corner of this column
and put my mask on, my face piece on, and took
                  D. MUSCHELLO                  8
the respirator part out and got ready.  I didn't
want to use any air, and I didn't know what was
going to happen at that point, if it was going to
fill up with fire or what-have-you.  So I didn't
want to start using air.
          I put my jacket over my head.  I took
my jacket off and put it over me kind of, not
took it off but loosened it and put my hood and
everything, just tried to cover as much as I
could.  I crawled into the corner.
          A couple of other people got on top of
me, and all of a sudden debris and stuff started
falling in front of the garage and falling into
the garage and the cloud of smoke and dust came
in.
          Then all of a sudden when it seemed
safe and there was no more noise, I got up.
There wasn't really anybody else around me
anymore.  I guess the guys that were on me had
left.  They didn't feel safe or whatever the
story was.
          So my first reaction was to head back
out instead of going deeper into the garage,
because I knew 40 feet up along the right wall,
                  D. MUSCHELLO                  9
which is where I was, going in to the left but
right on the way out, I would be able to get to
the sidewalk again.
          I couldn't see.  I took my face piece
off at that point because I knew it was just
smoke.  I reattached it to the respirator and
just pulled my hood over my mouth and nose, just
tried to breathe through that, because you really
couldn't breathe at all.  It was so thick that
you spit it out.  You coughed it and spit it
right out.  It filled your mouth up.  Your nose
got clogged instantly, you couldn't breathe
anymore through your nose.
          I made my way up to the sidewalk, and
there was nobody there.  There was one or two
people around.  You couldn't see very far.  It
was very, very quiet.  There wasn't even any
sound.  I didn't have a radio.
          I remember seeing Chief Nigro kneeling
on the ground.  It looked like he was saying a
prayer.  He had just his helmet on and his white
shirt, no bunker gear.  I tapped him on the
shoulder, and I said, "Chief, are you all right?"
He just looked up to me.  I said to myself I know
                  D. MUSCHELLO                 10
he's not hurt.  So I looked around to see if
there was anybody else that I could help.
          This whole time I'm thinking that all
the guys that ran into this garage were going to
come back out the way I was.  I didn't think they
had found their way out the back door.  So I was
kind of hanging on the sidewalk and heading
across the street, hitting the middle of the
street, looking around.
          There was a lot of rubble, a lot of
debris around.  I was looking for people to help,
because I knew where the garage was.  You could
actually follow your footprints back.  It was
like snow.  There was no problem seeing where you
came from.
          A firefighter came across the street at
that point.  He didn't have any bunker gear on;
or he may have had bunker pants, but he didn't
have a coat or helmet or anything.  I don't know
who he was.  It looked to me like his fingers may
have gotten cut off or something, but he was
bleeding really, really bad.  He was bleeding
real, real bad.  He was bleeding all over me.
          I actually yanked my T-shirt off that
                  D. MUSCHELLO                 11
was under my shirt, and I wrapped his hand.  I
brought him into the garage, because I wanted to
get him off the sidewalk because there was still
stuff that was falling.  I don't know whether it
was coming from the first tower now, because we
were actually closer to the first tower, or if it
was stuff from the building, maybe glass.  There
was still stuff falling down.
          I went into the garage, and at that
point I met up with somebody that had stretched a
search rope.  I didn't see who that was.  All of
a sudden he said this search rope leads out to
the rear.
          So I walked the guy that was hurt along
the search rope, and I said, "Follow the search
rope and you'll be able to get out through the
rear," because there were guys that were coming.
I said, "Somebody help him."
          But he went into a closet and sat down
and said, "I can't walk anymore."  I said, "You
can't sit in this closet.  No one is going to
find you."  So I helped him back onto the search
rope and started following the search rope.  I
myself didn't know where it went.  I didn't
                  D. MUSCHELLO                 12
follow it yet.
          At that point a guy came who had a
white windbreaker on, I believe it was.  It might
have been like retirees or a union or a chief
association, but I don't know who he was.  It was
civilian clothes with some type of a white
windbreaker on, an older fellow with gray hair.
          I handed him this guy that was bleeding
off to him.  As I told him take this guy to the
rear, I'm going to see if I can help anybody
else, we heard a tapping noise.  I stopped.  I
said, "Do you hear that?"  He said, "Yeah, I do."
I said, "It sounds like it's coming from over
there."  The guy said, "Yeah."
          We started stretching the search rope
over to the noise, and then it wouldn't go
anymore.  I told the guy, "You take the guy to
the rear, and I'll be able to find my way back to
the search rope."
          I followed the noise, the tapping
noise.  It was an OEM guy.  His name was Powell,
I believe, or something like that, a big black
guy, Calvin or something.  I don't remember.  I
remember asking him.  He was in this closet.  I
                  D. MUSCHELLO                 13
guess he was scared.
          (Interruption.)
          MR. KING:  We're continuing the tape
     again.  We had to stop the tape for about
     five or six minutes.  It's now 1849 hours,
     and we're continuing with Firefighter
     Muschello.
     A.   So I helped the guy out of the closet
there, the OEM guy.  I brought him to the search
rope.  The search rope led to a set of stairs and
a set of exits.  At that point I said, "You can
get out from here."  He said, "No problem."
          I went back out on the search rope
towards the street again, went to look for more
people to help.  I made it pretty close to tower
one across the street.  Some guys, firemen, came
running out.  I don't know where they came from.
You couldn't see no more than ten feet in front
of you.
          I didn't know where they came out from,
but they came running and they were yelling
something like a bomb or something.  They were
like, "Run, run, run!"  Everyone was running.  I
didn't really know what they were talking about.
                  D. MUSCHELLO                 14
          I knew where the garage was, so I said,
"Come this way."  They followed me to the garage.
We ran into the garage.  We still couldn't see.
A few other guys came behind us, and they said
run.  We ran in.
          At that point we ran past the search
rope.  Really you couldn't find it.  I thought it
was to the right, so I headed to the right.  I
think there was like a ledge or a curb of some
type, a little bit of a drop.  I kind of got
trampled and ran and pushed and went down off the
drop.  I came down pretty hard, twisted a few
things, but you know with adrenaline flowing I
really didn't feel it until a day or two later,
but I got banged up.
          At that point I said to myself my guys
from my company probably have to be wondering
where I am.  I tried to grab somebody with a
radio and call my captain, but that wasn't
happening.  So I decided to follow the search
rope out of the building, out of that garage, to
the rear.
          As I walked down the sidewalk in the
rear like that Battery Park City thing close to
                  D. MUSCHELLO                 15
the water, I met up with my company, they were
coming back to look for me.  They thought that I
had perished.
          Then we were in the back, and I just
remember saying, "Captain, I saw three guys that
were hurt over there.  Let's go back and help
them.  There's definitely people that we can help
over there."  He said that the first tower is
going to come down too and we're not going over
there right now.  We'll all group together, look
for some kind of command.  Then we'll plan from
there, instead of just running aimlessly back in
and becoming more victims.
          One thing I never heard a mayday after
that first one was given by the guys in the first
tower.  I never really heard one.  Like I said, I
didn't have a radio.  I didn't hear too many
people telling people in the first tower that the
tower had collapsed, that the second tower had
collapsed.  So I don't know if they were given
that information or not.
          Some guys said that they knew it
collapsed, and a lot of guys said they had no
idea it collapsed.  So I really don't know what
                  D. MUSCHELLO                 16
happened at that point.
          Then we walked around in the back
there, and I just remember saying we have to try
to find as much open space as possible, because
there was nothing but tall buildings around, in
case any more of them come down.
          Then the second tower collapsed, on the
first tower.  Then we just ran a little bit,
because that same puff of smoke engulfed you
again.  I would say we couldn't have been any
more than a quarter mile away at that point.  But
that smoke went a long way, that dust cloud,
whatever you want to call it.
          The same thing happened again.  I
remember seeing a granite wall along the back
of -- near the Battery Park City, kind of near
where the New York Waterway Parks.  I hid behind
the granite wall, because I thought that was a
pretty safe place.
          Then we went out around past Stuyvesant
High School.  They were evacuating all the
students.  At that point there was nobody around.
But then when we got around to Stuyvesant High
School, there were a lot of people over there.
                  D. MUSCHELLO                 17
Everybody seemed to be walking along the
sidewalk.
          We jumped out onto the West Side
Highway and gathered up the tools and stokes and
things like that and headed back down to help
whoever we could.
          At that point they were saying all
kinds of stories of gas, deadly gas, not natural
gas, and stuff like that.  So we really didn't
know what was going on.  We kind of had a feeling
that there couldn't have been too many people
more that we could help over there.  We did go
back there, but we just kind of waited until we
felt it was a little safe.
          Not to mention the fact that at that
point a lot of our tools had gotten lost.  A lot
of our equipment had gotten lost by just dropping
everything and running, guys trampling gear and
whatnot.  We really didn't have the gear that we
needed to head back in.
          Again, we gathered up what we could,
and we went back over.  Then we just proceeded to
operate for the remainder of the day.  Sometime
later on that day, I believe after -- when they
                  D. MUSCHELLO                 18
told us to evacuate the area for tower number
seven, building seven, when they knew that was
coming down, I had hooked up with my company,
Ladder 119, at that point.  I told the captain I
was going to set up with my company at that
point, because at that point the recall guys were
there.  There were a lot of guys from each
company there, so there wasn't any type of
manpower problem.  This is later on in the day.
I worked with Ladder 119 for the rest of the day.
          We were on the Church Street side,
which unfortunately -- I was there for two days
straight.  I never left until the 12th.  Actually
I didn't leave until the 13th, which would have
been Thursday morning at sunlight.  That's when I
really couldn't stand anymore.
          The whole time we were down there, the
wind was blowing exactly that way.  It was
blowing right towards the Church Street side.  So
we were getting nothing but -- you couldn't blink
anymore, your eyes or so dry and red.  You
couldn't even blink or rub them.  I couldn't
breathe anymore.  It was unbelievable.  But we
were over there for the whole time.
                  D. MUSCHELLO                 19
          That night all the cars and that
afternoon all the cars and the trucks and
everything that were along Church Street were all
still burning, and there were water problems.  We
operated and did different things with the tower
ladder.
          Actually we were putting water on
building number five I believe for a while.  Then
they moved us over to building number four, and
we operated the tower on that.
          That's about it.
     Q.   That's terrific.  That's fine.
          CHIEF KING:  We're concluding this
     interview.  The time is 1856 hours.
File No. 9110250
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         CAPTAIN CHARLES CLARKE
   Interview Date:  December 6, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
C. CLARKE
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KING:  Today's date is
December 6, 2001.  The time is 1905 hours and this is
Battalion Chief Stephen King from the Safety Battalion,
FDNY.  I'm conducting an interview with Captain Charles
Clarke from Engine 211, and the interview is regarding
the events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Captain Clarke, you can start whenever you'd
like.
     A.   Okay.  Let's see.  We were assigned on a
first alarm, I believe.  I know we were assigned on one
of the alarms.  I believe it was for the second tower
hit.  We came across the Williamsburg Bridge, followed
Engine 230 down I guess it's Broadway.  I know we
parked by a church.  I think it may be Dey Street.
Either Broadway and Dey Street or Church.  I'm not sure
where we parked.
          We came up the block.  We came down Vesey
Street.  There were car fires in the street that I
remember.  We stayed to the right side because I
remember there was an overhang there and I remember we
could get down along the overhang without the -- there
was stuff falling out of the building, not a tremendous
amount of debris.
          One thing I noted was I remember either it
C. CLARKE
3
was on the handy-talkie or on the Department radio that
said that the command post was being created at Vesey
and West Street and bring an extra cylinder with you.
I don't remember where the transmission came from.  The
transmission saved our lives, though.
          So I said to a guy in the street, because I
don't know Manhattan well, I said, "Do you know where
Vesey and West Street is?"  He pointed me down Vesey
Street and he said, "Yeah, go right down to the corner
and that will be West," and I said okay.  So we went
down the street.  The street was empty.  It was
deserted.  There was nobody on it.
          We got down to West and I looked up West
Street and there was a pedestrian bridge there.  I'm
trying to remember.  I remember saying it looked like a
lot of curtains were falling out of the building or
somebody was throwing debris out the window.  As we got
closer, I realized it was people jumping, and that's
when I realized the heat condition on the upper floors
had to be unbelievable.
          So we got to the pedestrian bridge and I told
the guys that I wanted to stay there for a little bit
to judge how far out the jumpers were landing and the
debris, so we didn't get hit by it, and at that time I
C. CLARKE
4
noticed the command post was on West Street right in
front of the World Financial Center.  So I walked up
and told the -- I saw Chief Nigro.  I did not see Chief
Ganci.  I told them, "211.  What do you want us to
do?"  They took my piece off the board.  They said,
"Hang on.  We're busy."  I said, "Fine."
          So we stepped back and one of my guys noticed
a parking garage back across West Street and thought it
was a good place to go if something happened.  So I
said okay.  So we waited.  I saw 210 there, 221, I
think 34 Engine.  We got together and we were deciding
what the plan of action was and everybody was like
everybody's feeling was, holy shit, we're going to have
to walk 80 floors before we even get close to this
thing.
          So we were talking back and forth, whether or
not you should wear your bunker gear, maybe you should
carry it, carry your boots up with you.  Literally,
there was a lot of discussion about that.  Definitely
bring the second bottle because we saw smoke starting
to issue from lower floors, you know, that lighter
smoke.  So we were wondering where that was coming from
and I even heard some radio transmissions about fire in
the elevator shafts from the jet fuel.  So we said
okay.
C. CLARKE
5
          I started talking to a member of 219, who I
had probably worked with for 20 years, and he was
facing the tower and I was facing away from it.  He
stopped the conversation, his eyes lit up, and he said,
"Charlie, run."  He saw it before you could even hear
it.  We started running.  I can't tell you how far I
was away from that parking garage.  I really don't
remember.  I just remember thinking let's just get in
there.
          I got into the parking garage and I hid
behind a pole.  A few other guys did.  A lot of other
guys ran deeper in.  I lost track of my guys at that
moment.  Everybody was kind of running.  I was kind of
in disbelief that the building was actually
collapsing.  I kind of stopped to say, well, maybe that
was a piece of the facade.  I couldn't believe that the
entire building was going to collapse in one heap.
Once I started hearing it hitting into the street, I
said, that's a lot of stuff.  I've got to move deeper
into the building.
          So I ran further down into the parking garage
and a guy was waving me into a doorway.  Then I ran
through the door.  I heard the stuff piling in a
C. CLARKE
6
distance back.  It didn't seem close.  We all got in,
someone closed the door or the door closed, and then
the hallway filled with smoke and the lights go out for
maybe five seconds or so.  Then they went back on
again.  They flickered.  They went back on.  So I said,
"Oh, it's the generators."  I said, "That's good.  At
least something in the building is still pretty good.
Let's wait and see what happens."
          Somebody said, "I found a door down at the
end of that hallway."  I said, "Okay.  Let's go down
there."  So we went down to the door and, in my mind,
with the towers being exposure one, that felt that
exposure three, so I thought that's a good place to
start.  But I knew we had to climb a set of stairs to
get to it.  So, in my mind, I figured we've gone down a
level if you ran into the garage.  Now this is up a
level.  This may be where we want to be.
          So I turned around and I looked and some guys
had coats, some guys lost their helmets, nobody had any
sets of irons or anything.  It was about maybe 30 guys
and three officers, all captains.  I was wondering what
happened to all the rest of the officers.  I never
really found out.  So we were going to go back.  Five
of us were going to go back and see if we could search
C. CLARKE
7
and find a set of irons or something.
          With that, an elderly gentleman was coming
down the stairs and he's got a custodian patch on his
shirt.  I said, "You work here?"  He goes, "Yeah."  I
said, "You got a key for this door?"  He goes, "I do."
He goes, "What are you guys doing in here?"  He had no
idea what the fuck had just happened.  He had no idea.
          So he opened the door and I opened the door
up and looked out and it was solid smoke.  So I closed
the door.  I said, "Where does this lead to?"  He said,
"That's outside."  I said, "Are you sure?"  He goes,
"Yeah."  I opened the door again.  I looked along the
floor.  I saw it was concrete.  I said, "Okay."  Then
everything started to lift.  I could see a tree.  I
said, "Oh, man.  This thing wrapped around the whole
building."
          We went out into the field.  I said, "Keep
going."  It was very difficult to breathe by the door.
I said, "Let's keep going across."  As we went through
the dust, we realized this is the water.  This is the
end of the trip.  Okay.  I started counting heads, did
a roll call, saw I was missing one man.  I took a look
around, waited for all the guys, couldn't find him.  So
I made a decision.  I said me and my senior guy were
C. CLARKE
8
going to go back to get him.
          So we went back across the field, got back to
the door, and just as we were going to cross in, I
heard him yell out my name, and he was down maybe 50
feet, but he had gotten out of the door.  I said
great.  I got all the guys together, and by that time I
had about, I would say, 15 guys with no orders and
everybody wanted to know what to do.  I said, "Okay.
Let's find our way around this building and we'll make
a determination from there.  Let's see what the hell
just happened."
          I looked up and through the smoke I could see
one tower was still standing.  The other one was gone.
I could not tell by the angle that I was looking at it
that it was in fact the north tower that was still
standing and the south tower was down.  When that guy
told me to run, I never looked back.  I just figured
he's telling me -- the noise was very loud.  I just
decided to move out.  I swore it was the north tower.
In retrospect, now I know it was the south tower.
          So we gathered up and made our way around,
let's see, I guess that would be North End Avenue, to
get around.  So we headed up North End Avenue, got back
onto Vesey Street, and the north tower started to
C. CLARKE
9
collapse.  I saw the top of it peel off and bend over,
and I was struck by how long it stood there.  It seemed
like forever.  Obviously, it was probably only
seconds.  But I said, "Man, that thing is cracked
over," and then boom, the whole thing came down.
          We didn't realize at first how much dust
there was from that first wave.  We didn't realize how
incredible it was.  We saw the second one.  It looked
like a wave, an ocean wave just coming very quickly,
very rolling, very fast.  But when it hit us, though,
it wasn't very hot.  It was just a lot of dust but not
so bad.
          At that point we then retreated back toward
the field by the World Financial Center and then came
back out again onto Vesey Street.  At this point I had
my five guys, probably three or four guys -- I believe
210 was with me and I know another proby -- he wasn't a
proby.  He's a rotator from -- I don't remember the
truck he was in.  I believe it's 30 Truck.  I know he
was from a Manhattan, Harlem company.  He said,
"Wherever you're going, I'm going."  I said, "Okay,
great.  Move with us then."
          At that point the cops came up, came running
past us and told us that there was gas on West Street,
C. CLARKE
10
and I said to them, "Well, what kind of gas?  Is it
natural?  Is it this Saran gas they talk about?"  I
said, "What do you know about it?"  He goes, "I have no
idea.  I know there's gas."  So I said to the guys,
"We're going to go back up West Street a little bit
and let's see in fact what this is."  We had no masks.
We didn't have anything.
          So we went back up West Street.  It turned
out to be a natural gas leak.  I told the guys, "Start
salvaging masks, tools, whatever you can get."  They
did a great job.  They got a basket, they got a Stokes,
they got cylinders, they got masks.  We were back in
business.  Because as we looked, we could see that all
the stuff that we had had was all buried up.  It was
gone.  It was under a lot of debris.  So we got that,
and then by that time, as we came back up West Street,
a couple of Chiefs had already formed at Vesey and West
and were trying to put together teams.  So we came back
up.  I told them I was 211 and that we would like to
get back into the field, and they said, "Well, okay,
we'll put you on the list.  Hang on for a little bit."
I said, "Okay."  So we waited.
          I was very concerned about my chauffeur.
Like I said, we parked the rig right over on Church
C. CLARKE
11
Street, and I was looking at the debris on West and I
could only imagine how much debris was on Church and
all those side streets.  So I conveyed that to one of
the Chiefs there, that I'd like to go over there, and
he said to hang out and wait.  I'd have to say that was
for at least a half hour, maybe 40 minutes.  I have no
recollection of any of the times.  But what I did was
at that point I figured you know what?  Let's go down
Barclay and get back out onto Church.  Maybe there's a
command post there that will get me closer in so at
least I can find out, because there were reports and
rumors of chauffeurs hidden under the rigs that are now
trapped.
          So we went back that way.  There was no
command post.  There was no one.  There was nothing.
The street was empty; a few cops here and there that I
can remember.  We went back down Church and found the
apparatus.  Now the apparatus, I believe, was on Fulton
midway between Church and Broadway being operated by
members of 211 who must have came from quarters, and
they said they had found the chauffeur.  His hand was
broken, they believed, and he had a piece of glass
through his leg, but he was okay.  I said, "Good."  I
said, "Where was he?"  He didn't know.
C. CLARKE
12
          At that point there was a command post at
Park and Broadway and they assigned us to the post
office, the Federal Office Building.  So I went down to
the Federal Office Building.  Oh, preceding that, No. 7
collapsed.  We were on Fulton Street when No. 7
collapsed, which was another incredible dust storm.  At
that point they said, "The post office is on fire, the
top floor."  We said, "Okay."  We went up there with a
line and it was just all the dust had permeated all the
windows.  Literally, it filled the building with smoke,
but there was no fire.  So we came back down and I gave
the guys a rest for a minute.
          Then we went back down Church.  We had a
report of a firefighter down on Cortlandt and Church.
We got down there.  We didn't find anything like that.
But at that point we realized that rescue was going on
on Liberty Street for No. 2 World Trade.  So we helped
with the line, getting the line up the hill.  There
were supposedly two cops buried up there.  We assisted
with the line.  By this time, it had to be 11:00
o'clock at night.  They were working on this guy.  I
know a lot of tools were going up there.  I don't know
who was operating up there.  We stayed on the hill
until about, I guess, around midnight.  My lungs were
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C. CLARKE
13
killing me.  My back was killing me.  I was shot, very
tired.  My legs were very heavy.
          Then we came back down and started walking
down Church, and I was kind of amazed that one building
was burning on 90 West, I noticed, but I was amazed
that all the tenements on Cortlandt and Dey, Fulton,
none of them were on fire.  I figured there would be a
lot of fire and there was none.  So we came back down.
          By then I guess it was about 1:00 o'clock.
We were done.  We walked back down Park Row and a city
bus was sitting there.  I asked him to take me back to
211's quarters.  He said he would do that.  That's what
we did.  We went back to quarters and that was that.
That's all we did that day.
          BATTALION CHIEF KING:  Okay.  Thanks.  The
time is 1920 hours and this interview is concluded.
File No. 9110251
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER EDWARD CACHIA
   Interview Date:  December 6, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
E. CACHIA 2
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today's date is
     December 6th, 2001.  The time is 2 p.m.
     This is Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan of
     the New York City Fire Department, Safety
     Division.  I'm conducting an interview with
     Ed Cachia of Engine 53.
     Q.   Please state your recollections for
September 11th.
     A.   As far as that particular day, we were
in the firehouse cleaning the kitchen, and a
member had come in from the house watch and said
put on Channel 7, whatever channel it was.  He
said a plane hit tower one of the World Trade
Center, the north tower.
          We all ran into the kitchen.  Everybody
regrouped in the kitchen.  We were watching the
news, and they had helicopters in the air
immediately with the footage.  We were discussing
more than likely we're going to go down there,
this is going to be a big fire.
          We all witnessed the second plane
hitting the south tower, and with that everybody
got kind of psyched up and said we're definitely
going to be going down there now, it's definitely
E. CACHIA 3
some kind of terrorist act and everybody be safe.
Everybody is very concerned.
          With that the tone alarm went off, and
53 Engine was called down to the north tower.  43
Truck remained in quarters.  As we got on the
rig, everybody double-checked their equipment,
checked the flashlights and all that.
          We headed down.  We had a very good
chauffeur who went through the park and got us
down there pretty quick.  I believe we pulled up
somewhere on West Street a couple blocks before
the towers, the north tower.  With that I
remember seeing 22 parked in front of us, 13
Truck.  They must have gone ahead of us.
          We walked towards a command post which
was set up by an underground garage across from
tower two.  There was a chief on both sides of
this garage, the entrance and the exit.  One was
the truck, which was on the southern side.  On
the northern side of the garage were the engine
companies.  We were waiting there for our
assignments.  I believe as we were there a couple
companies were assigned into the building.  I
remember seeing 13 Truck to our right.
E. CACHIA 4
          Then the jumpers started to take effect
as far as everybody's concentration and thoughts.
There was a tremendous amount of people jumping
from the top floors, and the sound and the vision
of it kind of broke everybody's concentration.
So with that I remember losing sight or record of
13 Truck, which I believe they soon went in
after.
          We moved to the top of the hill.  I
don't remember what companies were in front of
us, but we worked our way up to the top of the
hill.  We were with 44 Engine, I believe.  We
were about to get our assignment to go into the
building, and I remember Chief Ganci on the radio
yelling, "There's another plane in the air.  I
don't want anybody to go into the towers.
Everybody stay put."
          Then I remember him desperately trying
to get information:  Is the military going to
send a plane up to intercept the plane?  He told
the chiefs again, "Make sure no companies go in
right now.  There's another plane up in the air.
We don't know what's going on."
          With that I remember a chief coming
E. CACHIA 5
over to us saying, "53, 44, do me a favor, before
you get your assignment, before you go anywhere
near this building, I want you to move a couple
of rigs so we can get some ambulances in here."
          So now that broke up our company.  I
remember standing there with my officer,
Lieutenant Bob Dorritie, and the other members of
the company -- Danny Schofield, Louis Giaconelli,
Michael Catalano -- went to move some rigs.
          As I'm standing with my officer, the
people are continuing to jump.  Ganci is still on
the radio trying desperately to get some
information concerning this third plane in the
air.
          As my officer and I were looking at the
south tower, it just gave.  It actually gave at a
lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit,
because we originally had thought there was like
an internal detonation explosives because it went
in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then
the tower came down.
          With that everybody was just stunned
for a second or two, looking at the tower coming
down.  Then everybody started to turn towards the
E. CACHIA 6
garage.  That was it.  We were just kind of blown
into the garage with all the dust and the debris
and material from the building.  It came up
rapidly right up the street.
          As I remember turning, if you were out
in the street somewhat, a good amount out in the
street, you were kind of blown down the street,
where we were kind of forced into the garage.  We
were very fortunate.  There were several
companies.
          We were encapsulated in this garage for
quite some time, maybe 15 minutes or so.  You
couldn't see.  You couldn't breathe.  You
couldn't even hear because all the residue and
material was in your ears and your nose and your
mouth.
          Then as a few minutes went by, you
heard some voices.  It was dead silence at first.
Just different emotions:  How are we going to get
out of here?  I can't see.  I can't breathe.  My
chest.  It was still completely black.  You
couldn't see an inch in front of your face.
          Then I remember an officer saying,
"I've got a wall.  I've got a wall.  I'm going to
E. CACHIA 7
hit the wall with the halogen.  Follow the sound
of the halogen.  Come towards me.  I've got a
wall.  We'll get out of here."
          As I was on the floor -- I was very
fortunate.  I landed towards the incline of the
garage.  I was probably one of the last ones to
get into the garage.  I felt the incline with my
left hand, and I had my light.  I remember
screaming, "I'm at the entrance.  Follow my
light."  I was telling everybody, "Just follow
this light, because this is the way out."
          I remember another officer yelling,
"How do you know that's the way out?  I've got a
wall.  Come towards the wall."  So there was a
lot of different emotions and different things
going on in everybody's mind at the time.
          I started to kind of go up the hill
myself, pointing the flashlight towards everybody
in the garage, and came across like little tree
limbs.  At that point you still couldn't see.  It
was completely blacked out.  I knew this was
definitely the way to go.  Some guys followed me
out.
          That was it.  I remember hearing the
E. CACHIA 8
chief's voice.  Maybe this is like 15 minutes or
so, maybe going a little towards 20 minutes, a
little under 20 minutes, everybody kind of
followed their way toward the incline of the
garage.
          The chief said, "We're going to
regroup."  It started to lighten up just a little
bit.  It was still kind of dark out but lightened
up enough where you saw other people's faces.
The chief said, "We have to regroup in another
area."
          With that guys were asking each other,
"How are you doing?  Are you all right?" This and
that.  Guys were starting to regroup little by
little.  It's still dark out but light enough to
see people now where we were standing.  People
were still jumping from tower two because you
could hear the bodies hitting the ground.
          Then another chief came over and said,
"We have to regroup, but I want everybody to go
back into the garage.  We're going to have a
lifeline set up, and we're going to come out the
back of the garage.  It's safer."  The other
chief had said, "We'll walk along West Street and
E. CACHIA 9
we'll regroup around the other end of the
building."
          So with that I remember my officer
grabbed me by the shoulder and said we're going
to go back through the garage.  It's going to be
safer.  I remember him yelling out to a few other
people too we'll go through the garage, it's a
lot safer, because at this point in time it's
still kind of dark out.  People were still
jumping.  There still was a little confusion as
to what was down the block from the collapse.
          So a few guys regrouped on top of the
garage and I believe started to walk along West
Street on the outside.  I walked back into the
underground garage with my officer and several
other guys.  There was a lifeline set up, and we
came out the rear of this building -- I don't
know what building it was -- by the marina.
          At that point in time, everybody got
out the rear, and my officer and I, Bob Dorritie,
was standing there.  There was the chief that
initiated the entire removal.  My officer said to
the chief, "Chief, I'm missing a couple of guys.
I don't know where they are."
E. CACHIA 10
          At that point in time, myself, Louis
Giaconelli and my officer were the three left
standing there with the chief.  The chief said,
"Send one of your guys back into the building.
Maybe they're in the building somewhere.  And you
two guys stay out here in case they do come out."
So I stood there with my officer, and we sent
Giaconelli back into the building.
          At that point in time, we're looking up
at the north tower.  I remember my officer
saying, "I have a feeling this one is going to
come down too."  Just as he said that, that tower
came down it looked like at the point of impact.
We actually witnessed both towers coming down
visually.  We happened to be looking at that
particular time.  With that, the tower came down.
          We ran towards the marina to seek
shelter, and all the debris came over the
building we were behind.  We were kind of buried
a second time with light debris, my officer being
ahead of me by the boats, and I just didn't quite
make it that far.  I just hit the ground and
hoped for the best.
          You could hear the steel beams coming
E. CACHIA 11
down.  They flew everywhere.  That was it.
There's another point in time you couldn't see,
couldn't breathe, for at least another ten
minutes or so.
          I remember finally getting in touch
with my officer, calling his name out.  It took
quite some time, and he had said he couldn't
speak because of all the residue in his mouth.  I
had my mask with me at the time, and I had it on.
That was it.
          After that we were hoping for the best
with Louis Giaconelli who went into the building
to look for the other members who were in another
place.  They moved the rigs and took shelter in
the Winter Garden, I believe, at the time of the
collapse.  We were hoping that he was going to be
all right.  He had walked out of the building at
that time, so we knew he was all right.
          So what we did was we walked by the
water to regroup in another area, which I don't
exactly recollect.  We were explaining to the
chief we're missing a couple guys.  He said, "A
lot of guys took refuge in the Winter Garden,
which was next door.  Let's get some confirmation
E. CACHIA 12
before we do anything, but everybody stay here."
          Later on we did hook up with the
members that we were missing.  My officer was
extremely concerned and very upset about that.
He pursued it wholeheartedly.  They regrouped
with us.
          At that point in time, they were trying
to organize some kind of search for the missing
members that were caught in the collapse.  I
remember walking towards tower two, basically
back towards the front of the garage where we
regrouped to leave the area.  We wound up back in
that area.
          I remember seeing Chief Visconti very
visibly upset, standing on a pile of rubble.  It
must have been a story or two high in that area.
He was explaining that we're going to create a
line.  We're all going to walk across the rubble
as wide as we can, and we're going to search
every little nook and cranny and hole or cabin,
whatever we can find.  Where there's a space,
you're going to look for the brothers that might
have got caught in the collapse.
          At that point in time, we did that,
E. CACHIA 13
this being maybe half an hour from the point in
time of actually leaving that marina area, maybe
half an hour after that.  I remember several guys
came across a fireman's body here, a fireman's
body there, a helmet.  You saw the back of
someone's bunker gear, his legs, a rig twisted
under the rubble.  Basically that was it.
          There wasn't the equipment at the time
to dig anybody out, because of the twisted steel.
So we put markers for the bodies.  They would try
and get as deep as possible and close to a body
to see if there was a pulse.  If there was a
confirmation that this person didn't make it,
they would mark off the area and we would
continue forward, hopefully to find someone that
was still alive.
          We did that for some time.  The
inhalation of the dust and the initial collapse
just was overwhelming.  You were just choking and
coughing on your own phlegm and this and that. So
we did that maybe 45 minutes or an hour or so.
          Then my company and I, we regrouped in
another area just to get a breather, because at
that particular time more and more firemen were
E. CACHIA 14
coming in.  My officer said, "Look, we've got to
really just take a break here.  We're really
overloading ourselves here," because he saw our
condition.  We were kind of waning at that point
in time from exhaustion.
          So that was it.  We went back to
another staging area.  We regrouped.  We
replenished water.  Basically that was the last
thing I remember, we regrouped.  At that point in
time, other members from our company met us at
that area, and they were going off into the area
to search also.
          I myself personally had my eyes
encrusted with the cement and lime dust.  The
second I stopped working, I couldn't even keep my
eyes open.  So my officer said, "Look, we've got
to get you to see the eye doctor right away,"
because my eyes were bloodshot red and I couldn't
even keep them open at that point, knowing that
this was it, we're going to take a break, more
guys are coming in.
          Then I remember it was a little while
after that we all went to the triage center, and
everybody was getting treated for eye injuries.
E. CACHIA 15
Then they said they felt that we had cornea
damage so we should go right to a hospital.
          So my officer and myself, I think Mike
Catalano and Louis Giaconelli went to Cornell.
That was it.  That was it for us.  We were
examined.
     Q.   Thank you very much.
          CHIEF KENAHAN: This concludes the
     interview.  The time now is 2:16.
File No. 9110252
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         FIREFIGHTER JOHN COLON
   Interview Date:  December 6, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
J. COLON
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today is December
     6, 2001.  The time is 1:35 p.m.  This is Battalion
     Chief Kenahan from the Safety Battalion of the New
     York City Fire Department.  I'm conducting an
     interview with John Colon of Ladder 43 about the
     events on September 11.
     Q.   Please tell us what you know from that day.
     A.   Well, I'm John Colon, I was a chauffeur for
43 Truck that morning.  We were watching TV and we got
a run to 43 Street and Lexington Avenue for a person
trapped in a revolving door.  We go from here from 102
Street and 3 Avenue and it was a 10-91.  Then we got
called to the World Trade Center.  We kept hearing what
was going on.  I made a right on 57 Street.  I went
down the West Side Highway and we parked around 4
blocks away, 5 blocks away.  We got out of the rig, we
got ourselves organized.
          We started, not running, but walking fast
towards the -- towards one of the buildings.  We didn't
see whether the first building was down.  We really
couldn't tell.  When we got about approximately a
block, block and a half away, the building started
coming down.  We stopped, we paused because we were in
awe.  The whole building starts coming down.  We turn
2
J. COLON
around, we run.  Luckily we got into a loading dock and
I asked the junior guy, Jerry Suden, to force open a
chain.
          We got in there.  The whole building came
running down, came falling down.  We waited a few
minutes.  We regrouped, we went back to, I presume it
was the second tower, the building that came down, that
we were looking at.  There was numerous fires all over
the place.  The officer, Glen Rohan, told Jerry Suden
to put out car fires.  There were car fires.  The rigs
were on fire.  Jerry got a hose line, started putting
the fires out.
          We climbed up a 35 foot portable ladder and
we helped get the officer from Engine 1, who was
deceased.  We continued from there.  I don't know how
much more I could tell you.  I could tell you what we
did all day long.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  No, that's not
     really what we are interested in.
     Q.   So as far as you know, you didn't see any
companies go into any particular position prior to the
collapse?
     A.   No, not at all.  No, we didn't.  We saw the
rigs parked there, but I have no idea where their
3
J. COLON
positions were.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Okay, thanks a
     lot.  This concludes the interview.  The time is
     1:35.
4
File No. 9110253
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
     FIREFIGHTER RICHARD BANACISKI
   Interview Date:  December 6, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
R. BANACISKI
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  December 6, 2001.
     The time is 3:30 p.m.  This is Battalion Chief
     Kenahan of the Safety Battalion of the Fire
     Department of the City of New York.  I'm
     conducting an interview with Rich Banaciski of
     Ladder 22.
     Q.   Please tell us the events of September 11 as
you recall them?
     A.   We got the alarm for us to respond, just, I
would say, a minute after the second plane had hit the
tower.  Then they actually came over the voice alarm.
Actually told the companies to respond outlet.  We
responded in and it was all the west side companies
were actually all running down together, down the West
Side Highway, because it was closed going northbound.
So we could see what was going on, the two towers, both
of them burning pretty good and then we got into, down
to the site.  We were at the corner of West and Vesey.
That's where we parked the rig, in front of the Verizon
building.
          We were told to bring extra cylinders.  We
each brought our extra cylinders and we brought our
rollups, the whole thing, and we reported in to the
command post, which was in front of -- I think it was
2
R. BANACISKI
the Merrill Lynch building.  There was a parking
garage.  There were two ramps that went in that parking
garage.
     Q.   On West Street?
     A.   On West Street.  We reported in to there and
I remember they had the command post set up.  They were
telling the engines to the one side, all the trucks to
the other side, put your cylinders in the middle.  We
were there.  They were getting the command structure
going.  I just remember we were -- initially we were
out by the street and they started having jumpers, so
they all kind of moved back towards the parking garage,
towards the building, so nothing would come down on
us.
          We were there I don't know, maybe 10, 15
minutes and then I just remember there was just an
explosion.  It seemed like on television they blow up
these buildings.  It seemed like it was going all the
way around like a belt, all these explosions.
Everybody just said run and we all turned around and we
ran into the parking garage because that's basically
where we were.  Running forward would be running
towards it.  Not thinking that this building is coming
down.  We just thought there was going to be a big
3
R. BANACISKI
explosion, stuff was going to come down.
          There was just a tremendous cloud that came
into the parking garage.  Somebody actually laid out a
search rope, I think it was the officer of 76 Engine
too, Lieutenant Farrington.  He laid out a search rope
so some of the guys could find their way to a back
door, set up a back staircase in the Merrill Lynch
building.  We followed that up and we ended up coming
out behind the building where the Marina is.  Back in
there.  A lot of guys made their way out there.
          We kind of -- from there we kind of regrouped
together because we lost each other when the building
came down.  We all ran, so we kind of regrouped there,
got ourselves together.  Then there was a lot of people
not knowing what to do, do you know what I mean.
          I said to the officer, I'm going to go look
for our chauffeur and I knew he parked the rig right in
front of the Verizon building.  I went up there.  I
started looking for him.  He had moved the rig, not
knowing now -- now I know, but he had moved the rig.
I'm not exactly sure where he put it, but I went to go
look for him because I couldn't get him on the radio
due to the amount of radio traffic.  People looking for
this guy, this guy, companies looking for their own
4
guys.
R. BANACISKI
5
          So I was kind of looking around over there,
up and down West Street and looking on Vesey and I just
remember there was a police officer standing there and
he just started saying, it's starting to lean, it's
starting to lean.  I remember looking up, looking at
the second building and just seeing it starting to
move.  I just started running back down Vesey towards
the water again to where I had come from.  That's
-- the second building came down there.
          So we kind of -- same thing, there was a time
period where people were kind of in shock, not knowing
what to do.  I just remember we finally said we got to
go somewhere now.  We got to figure out what's going
on.
          I remember going back up Vesey to West and
then they were telling us to go north.  Go north up on
West Street, because there is a foot bridge north, like
an arched foot bridge.  Had everybody going north of
that.  We will regroup up there.
          I just remember that's when I started seeing
all the guys coming in from home, all the guys from the
company and we actually -- everybody from this house,
we stuck together and we actually from there, a little
R. BANACISKI
bit of time, maybe an hour or so, they actually started
telling us to go here, go there.  They moved us from
one spot, they moved us on to Vesey again.  Because
then they were worried about -- we actually searched
the Verizon building, because there was reports of
firemen there.  Basically our whole house searched that
building.
          They told us to get out of there because they
were worried about 7 World Trade Center, which is right
behind it, coming down.  We were up on the upper floors
of the Verizon building looking at it.  You could just
see the whole bottom corner of the building was gone.
We could look right out over to where the Trade Centers
were because we were that high up.  Looking over the
smaller buildings.  I just remember it was tremendous,
tremendous fires going on.
          Finally they pulled us out.  They said all
right, get out of that building because that 7, they
were really worried about.  They pulled us out of there
and then they regrouped everybody on Vesey Street,
between the water and West Street.  They put everybody
back in there.
          Finally it did come down.  From there -- this
is much later on in the day, because every day we were
6
R. BANACISKI
so worried about that building we didn't really want to
get people close.  They were trying to limit the amount
of people that were in there.  Finally it did come
down.  That's when they let the guys go on.  I just
remember we started searching around all the rigs.
          That was basically the rest of the day, the
rest of the night.  We were searching around rigs
looking for men.  That was it.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  All right.
     Q.   Do you have anything else to add?
     A.   No.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Okay.  Thank you
     very much for your cooperation.  The time now is
     3:45 p.m.  This concludes the interview.
7
File No. 9110254
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER RICHARD BATTISTA
   Interview Date:  December 6, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
R. BATTISTA
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time is 4:49
     p.m.  This is Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan, the
     Safety Battalion of the New York City Fire
     Department.  I'm conducting an interview with
     Richard Battista of Engine 76.
     Q.   Richard, explain to us what you remember on
September 11.
     A.   Well, September 11, the day started out
normally just like any other day.  The men had gotten
up for breakfast and I turned on the channel, I turned
on the news TV and we saw that one of the World Trade
Center towers had been struck by an airplane.  At that
time we thought it was an accident.  Shortly after, the
second plane struck the second building.  We started
receiving our alarms and everybody came over the voice
alarm telling us exactly what to do.
          Members started to turn out and we made our
way downtown.  We took a route along the West Side
Highway and on our way down there you could see both
towers in flames and you could see a lot of smoke in
the immediate area.  On arrival we got there, the
Lieutenant had - Lieutenant Farrington, told us
basically what we needed to do as to - just start
getting to a staging area and while he was receiving
R. BATTISTA
3
his orders from the Battalion, we pretty much kept a
wait in front of what is now -- I think was the
American Express building.
          At that time he just told us basically to
prepare, getting extra water, whatever else we might
have needed for the flight up.  I think he was getting
reports of possibly going up to a building, one of the
floors in the second tower.
     Q.   North tower or the south tower?
     A.   Sorry, the north tower.  At this time, I had
just been waiting for a while, and all I could remember
from my vantage point was seeing civilians jump out of
the buildings in the west side of the tower and landing
around the surrounding streets.  At that time, to be
honest I didn't really focus too much on what was going
on around me because I was sort of fixated on what was
happening up above, so I didn't really get too much of
a time to notice what was happening immediately around
me.  I know there was a lot of people running back and
forth and there was havoc, but it didn't really dawn
upon me at that time that I should be aware of my
immediate surroundings.
          Once they started falling, we got a report of
a firefighter being injured, from someone maybe
R. BATTISTA
4
falling, so we decided to move back further away from
the tower.  I remember specifically the command post,
which may have been, I don't know, maybe 40 feet in
front of us, something in that nature.  When I saw
that, Lieutenant Farrington told us to move back so we
were sort of underneath a garage area when we first
heard reports or guys yelling that one of the towers
was coming down.  I was able to stick my head out and
look up a bit and once I saw that I just immediately
turned around and ran into the building.
          Within seconds everything was pitch dark.  I
remember something actually hit me on my shoulder, what
it was I don't know.  It could have been a helmet, it
could have been something that hit me on my left
shoulder.  Even though we weren't immediately in front
of the south tower, in that vicinity, because I wasn't
able to see what was coming down around me, I thought
maybe it was a piece of the building or something, so
at that point I just ducked into a corner and put my
-- rolled up in a fetal position, just balled up and
waiting for the worst to be over.
          Once things settled down I heard firefighters
asking for help.  Someone actually stated oh, I have
asthma.  I can't breathe, whatever.  So I was one of
R. BATTISTA
5
the few firefighters that I remember who actually had
my cylinder on my back, because some of the
firefighters had actually put them down to rest,
because we had been waiting for a while.
          At this point I turned on my flashlight and I
tried to look for anyone that I might be able to assist
within the garage area, keeping in mind I didn't know
how badly affected the building I was in was.  I just
knew it was pitch black in front.  I couldn't see out
where I came in from originally, so I thought who
knows, maybe we are underneath or trapped as well.
          After some of the haze started clearing, we
started seeing bits of light, but we couldn't exactly
see the entrance.  Lieutenant Farrington had the
forethought of getting a search rope tied off to a
bannister and made his way out to the back of the
building heading towards the west river.  He started
calling out to the members of the 76 and other
companies.  We found the line and made our way out the
building and back down under some steps and coming out,
surfacing on the other side.
          At that time I really don't remember too many
other faces, because myself, I have a little over a
year on the job, so I really don't know too many other
R. BATTISTA
6
people from surrounding companies, just a few familiar
faces.
          I do remember once we made it out the back of
the building, running towards the river and I saw
several members of our truck company, 22 Truck.  Those
were the only distinguishing faces I could make out.
Not only was it hard to see, but a lot of helmets were
covered with soot at that point after we made it out
the back, so it was difficult to even see some of the
numbers, even if I did look for it.
          At that point we waited by the river and
tried to gather everyone because all the members who
were in the Engine that day, I think two of the members
might have gone a different way, so we were waiting to
catch up with them and then we were waiting to make a
voice communication with them over the handy talky, but
there was just so much confusion that that wasn't able
to happen right away.
          Eventually we did meet up with them and we
started walking up north when the second tower
collapsed.  At this point that walk turned into a run
very quickly and we made our way to, I believe it's
Vesey or on West Street, and started going up West
Street until we were able to come to another meeting
point.
R. BATTISTA
7
          Other than that, that's pretty much all I can
recall at this point.
     Q.   The point that you are just talking about
now, had the second tower come down yet or not?
A. No.
     Q.   What happened after you met at that point,
did you go back at all or did you stay up there when
the second tower came down?
     A.   Once we made it out to that meeting point
where the Chiefs were trying to get a head count over
on West Street, I was (inaudible) for a message from
the Chief's aide and found out that we had to go back
in eventually to find -- to see how many members we
could find.  This took some time, because like I said,
everything was out of whack.  People -- whole companies
weren't together, so it took some time for us to not
only gather the men but gather our bearings, because
you could imagine once we were waiting we also got
another report of a plane in the area, so we thought
possibly at that time that another building around us
might get struck.
          I remember sitting down and drinking water
and trying to get a bite of an apple or something by
R. BATTISTA
8
that time.  When we finally did get our job duties,
what we were supposed to do, we started gathering up
again and we were told we had to turn out on a
spreading fire in what I believe is 6 World Trade
Center or the customs building, possibly a bank.
          At that point, this was later on, closer to
the afternoon maybe, maybe 12, but I'm not exactly
sure, during that time --
          As I was saying, once the afternoon came
around, 12 or 1, by that time I think a new officer had
met up with our company, we had Captain Jirak take us
into that fire on that 6 World Trade Center where we
helped extinguish some fires on the back of that
building.
          Prior to that, earlier in the day, just to
backtrack a little bit, when the second tower
collapsed, I remember we were all by the water way, by
the river, right on the river's edge, and we were
looking in the general direction of the towers, but you
couldn't see much, because I believe the other
building, maybe 4 World Trade Center or the American
Express building, was blocking our view.  We couldn't
really see nothing but what was up in the sky.
          Once we finished extinguishing the fires, we
R. BATTISTA
9
once again met up on West Street with Captain Jirak and
we just waited for further orders to go out and start
making searches.  That's about it.
     Q.   Okay, anything else you would like to add?
     A.   No.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Thank you Richard,
     for all your help.  This concludes the interview
     it's now 5:05 p.m.

FILE NO 9110255
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER TODD HEANEY
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY MAUREEN MCCORMICK

SEPTEMBER
CHECKLIST
11
ALL RIGHT IM GOING TO JUST LITTLE YOU GAVE ME CHIEF MIGHT HELP ME
FINE
IF CAN USE IT
WHATEVER WAY
WE WERE HERE IN QUARTERS JUST LIKE EVERYBODY WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED WHEN THE SECOND TOWER
HEANEY
BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN THE DATE IS
DECEMBER 2001 THE TIME IS 1110 AND THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN OF THE SAFETY BATTALION OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT
IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH TODD HEANEY
OF ENGINE 209
PLEASE TELL US ANY INFORMATION YOU HAVE ABOUT
ELSE AND
GOT HIT WE WERE DISPATCHED ON THE FIFTH ALARM
WE LEFT QUARTERS WE TOOK THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE TO MANHATTAN EN ROUTE WE COULD JUST SEE THE
DAMAGE TO THE TOWERS IT WAS BAD
WE GOT TO MANHATTAN THINK WE WERE
DISPATCHED AROUND TEN AFTER NINE WE GOT TO MANHATTAN QUICKLY WE WERE THERE IN 20 MINUTES BUT MAYBE LESS
WE WERE THERE ABOUT 930 DONT REMEMBER WHERE WE PARKED OUR APPARATUS

HEANEY
WE CAME DOWN CHAMBERS STREET OFF THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE MADE LEFT HAND TURN ONTO BROADWAY AND WE TOOK ONE OF THE SIDE STREETS MIGHT HAVE BEEN
LIBERTY DONT REMEMBER DONT REMEMBER WHERE WE PARKED EXACTLY BUT WHEN WE GOT OFF THE RIG WE TOOK OUR ROLL UPS AND WE TOOK SOME FORCIBLE ENTRY TOOLS SEARCH ROPE THINGS LIKE THAT
NO CIVILIANS OR ANYTHING APPROACHED US IT PRETTY MUCH HAD PEOPLE EVACUATED FROM
WAS PRETTY
AROUND THE TOWERS AT THE TIME LOT OF PEOPLE ON
BROADWAY AND THE SIDE STREETS BUT WHEN WE GOT DOWN TO
THE COMPLEX EXPECTED TO SEE LOT OF PEOPLE RUNNING AROUND BUT THERE WERENT THEY HAD MOST OF THE PEOPLE OUT
WE SAW ENGINE COMPANY 217 ON THE CORNER OF AND CHURCH AT THAT TIME HAD
LIBERTY
HANDY TALKIE AND WE WERE SUPPOSED TO REPORT TO THE
LOBBY OF TOWER BUT OUR HANDY TALKIE MESSAGE TOLD US TO REPORT TO COMMAND POST AT WEST AND VESEY STREET
NOW AT THAT TIME THEY ALSO WERE TELLING US
TO BRING ADDITIONAL CYLINDERS SO OUR RIG WASNT PARKED THAT FAR FROM WHERE WE WERE WHICH WAS LIBERTY AND
CHURCH SO WE WENT BACK TO THE RIG AND GRABBED
ADDITIONAL
CYLINDERS

HEANEY
WE OUR OFFICER SPOKE WITH THE OFFICER OF 217 FOR COUPLE OF SECONDS AT THE CORNER OF LIBERTY AND CHURCH DONT KNOW IF THATS OR WORLD TRADE CENTER ON THE CORNER AND THEN THERES BURGER KING
THERE
WE PROCEEDED DOWN LIBERTY TOWARDS WEST
STREET WE RAN INTO AN INJURED FIREMAN DONT REMEMBER TOO WELL BUT THERE WAS AN INJURED FIREMAN DR KELLY WAS THERE SHE CAME OUT OF BUILDING AND THEY WERE CARRYING THIS FIREMAN THEY PUT HIM INTO AN AMBULANCE RIGHT AWAY
ASKED DR KELLY IF SHE NEEDED OUR HELP AND SHE SAID NO WERE GOING TO TAKE HIM TO THE
HOSPITAL WE PASSED 10 AND 10S QUARTERS
MEAN DONT KNOW WHAT THEY WANT ME TO
TELL THEM THERE WERE PEOPLE DEAD PEOPLE EVERYWHERE DONT KNOW IF YOU WANT TO KNOW THAT
WHAT DID YOU DO YOU KNOW YOU CAN SAY IT WHATEVER YOU SAW
YOU KNOW THEY THE PEOPLE WERE JUST EVERYWHERE SAW SOME LUGGAGE FROM THE PLANE
IMAGINE LOT OF DEBRIS FROM THE UPPER FLOORS PAPERS AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE
WE RAN INTO TRUCK COMPANY DONT
RIGHT

HEANEY
REMEMBER WHO THEY WERE THIS WAS ON LIHERTY ON THE
CORNER OF LIBERTY AND WEST IS 90 WEST STREET
THAT BUILDING THE OLD AN OLDER BUILDING WITH SCAFFOLDING ALL AROUND IT THIS BUILDING IS LOCATED NEXT TO 90 WEST ITS THE BUILDING ITS STILL STANDING IT HAS BIG SLASH IN IT FROM THE THATS WHERE WE BUMPED INTO THIS TRUCK COMPANY
THERE WAS SOME TYPE OF LIKE PROMENADE THERE OR STEPS THAT COULD GO UP INTO LIKE SOME TYPE OF
BALCONY STEPS THAT COULD GO DOWN AND THEY CAME UP TO US AND SAID THERE IS NO COMMAND POST WERE GOING TO
THE LOBBY AND THEY WENT TO THE LOBBY
OUR OFFICERS WE WERE VERY CLOSE TO WEST
STREET AT THIS TIME STANDING RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM TOWER WE THOUGHT WE COULD JUST GO TO WEST STREET AND LOOK IF THERE WAS NO COMMAND POST THERE WE WERE GOING TO GO TO VESEY
AT THIS TIME WE FOUND AN OFFICERS HELMET CRUSHED WITH LOT OF BLOOD ON IT DONT KNOW
BADLY
WHAT COMPANY IT WAS DONT REMEMBER 54 50
SOMETHING BUT IT WAS AN OFFICERS HELMET BADLY DAMAGED
WE CONTINUED DOWN LIBERTY TO WEST STREET AND THERE WAS THIS CHIEF STANDING THERE IN THE MIDDLE OF
KNOW

HEANEY
WEST LITTLE BIT SOUTH OF WEST STREET AND HE HAD HIS
OWN LITTLE LIKE COMMAND POST IN THERE YOU KNOW LIKE THE FLIP UP AND HE WAS STANDING THERE ALL BY HIMSELF
BEFORE WE WENT TO GO TO VESEY OUR OFFICER SAID LET ME JUST ASK THIS GUY IF HE WANTS US TO DO SOMETHING FROM HERE THAT CHIEF TOLD OUR OFFICER TO STAND FAST RIGHT HERE AND THE BUILDINGS CAME DOWN TOWER CAME TOWN
FINANCIAL
WE RAN ACROSS WEST STREET TO ONE OF THE BUILDINGS WHICH IS NEAR THE SOUTH PEDESTRIAN
OVERPASS
RIGHT
THE DOORS WERE LOCKED WE COULDNT GET IN THE BUILDING TWO OF OUR GUYS GOT CAUGHT AT THAT
DOOR ME AND ANOTHER GUY GOT CAUGHT OUTSIDE AND THAT WAS IT JUST THE BUILDINGS CAME DOWN IT BECAME
BLACK AS NIGHT
ALL YOUR MEMBERS WENT THE SAME WAY LIKE
WE ALL HEADED TOWARDS THAT BUILDING THATS WHERE WE ALL HEADED TOWARDS MEAN IT HAPPENED VERY
QUICKLY YOU HEARD THE SOUND LIKE CRACK LIKE GIANT TREE BRANCH BREAKING AND WAS FROZEN
COULDNT EVEN RUN
PEOPLE WERE JUST RUNNING PAST ME AND

HEANEY
WATCHED THE BUILDING AND THE TOP HALF CRACKED AND STARTED TO FALL TOWARDS LIBERTY STARTED TO FALL
TOWARDS LIBERTY STREET TOWARDS WHERE 10 AND 10 IS AND THEN IT JUST STARTED COMING DOWN AND THE POUNDING GOT LOUDER AND LOUDER AND LOUDER AND THEN WE JUST STARTED RUNNING
WHAT HAPPENED WITH THAT CHIEF
DONT EVEN KNOW DONT KNOW WHAT
HAPPENED IF HE MADE IT DONT KNOW
GUESS HE DIDNT GO THE SAME DIRECTION YOU
WENT OR
DONT KNOW HE WAS HE WAS LITTLE SOUTH OF US WE WERE ON THE CORNER OF LIBERTY AND
WEST HE WAS LITTLE SOUTH OF THAT SO OUR OFFICER WENT TO HIM WE STAYED LIKE IN THE MIDDLE OF WEST
STREET RIGHT BY THE MARRIOTT HOTEL AND THE SOUTH
OVERPASS THE SOUTH PEDESTRIAN OVERPASS
WHEN IT STARTED TO COME DOWN WE JUST RAN
THERE WAS NOTHING ELSE TO DO AND WE TRIED TO HEAD TOWARDS THAT BUILDING
TWO GUYS GOT CAUGHT IN THE REVOLVING DOOR DIDNT FIND OUT UNTIL LATER THAT THEY WERE ABLE TO
BREAK THE WINDOW AND GET INTO THE BUILDING MYSELF AND TOMMY HANSARD WHO WAS WORKING THAT DAY WE GOT CAUGHT

HEANEY
OUTSIDE THERE WAS THERE WAS POLICE OFFICER AND
WOMAN CIVILIAN WHO WERE KIND OF LIKE CURLED UP ON THE FLOOR KIND OF JUST LIKE CURLED UP WITH THEM
THOUGHT THAT WAS IT THIS IS THE END YOU CANT OUT RUN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AND THE CONCUSSION
WAS IT WAS DEAFENING AND THIS HOT SUPER WIND BLEW AND IT JUST GOT DARK AS NIGHT AND YOU COULDNT BREATHE
BECAUSE OF THE DUST AND WE DIDNT HAVE OUR WE DROPPED OUR MASKS WE HAD THEM ON AND SO WE
THAT WAS IT
REALLY
DIDNT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO EVERYBODY ELSE THOUGHT WAS BY MYSELF BUT KNEW KNEW
WHAT DIRECTION WAS FACING KNEW THAT THAT BUILDING WE WERE RUNNING TO WAS THE WEST SIDE AND THAT IF WE
COULD MAKE IT TO THE WEST SIDE WEDHIT THE WATER AND MAYBE WEDBE ABLE TO GET AWAY SO CRAWLED ALONG THE
SIDE OF THE BUILDING AND HAD THIS POLICE OFFICER AND THIS WOMAN WITH ME THEY HELD ONTO ME AND CRAWLED ALONG THE WALL UNTIL GOT TO THE CORNER AND MADE THE RIGHT AND WE JUST KEPT CRAWLING
ALONG THE WAY FOUND FIREMANS HELMET
FROM 101 AND PICKED IT UP AND KEPT CALLING OUT TO 101 ON THE WAY THERE NOBODY ANSWERED OTHER
COMPANIES WOULD ANSWER DONT REMEMBER WHO ANSWERED

BUT IT WASNT 101
WE CRAWLED
BUILDING AND WE GOT LITTLE BIT CLEARER
HEANEY
TO JUST ABOUT THE END OF THIS TO THE WEST SIDE WHERE IT WAS WE GOT INTO RESTAURANT AND
DROPPED THOSE TWO PEOPLE OFF THERE
NOW DONT THINK BUMPED INTO MY GUYS
AGAIN WENT BACK TO WHERE WE WERE TO TRY TO FIND OUR
GEAR AND STILL HAD THE GUYS HELMET IN MY HAND AND
KEPT CALLING OUT FOR HIM AND HE DIDNT ANSWER SO PUT THE HELMET BACK DOWN BASICALLY WHERE FOUND IT
WHEN GOT TO THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING IT TOSSED RIGS DOWN THE STREET LIKE IT WAS LIKE THEY
WERE TOYS THEY WERE UPSIDE DOWN ON FIRE THERE WAS LARGE CHUNK OF THE FACADE BASICALLY WHERE WE WERE
STANDING DIDNT KNOW WHERE THE OFFICER WAS OR WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT CHIEF BUT FOUND TOMMY HANSARD THE
GUY WHO WAS CAUGHT OUTSIDE WITH ME
WE WENT BACK TO THE WEST SIDE BECAUSE IT WAS
CLEARER AND THEN WE FOUND OUR OTHER GUYS THEY HAD WENT THROUGH THE BUILDING AND CAME OUT BASICALLY ON THE
OTHER END SO WE REGROUPED THERE WE STARTED TO HEAD BACK WE WERENT ON LIBERTY IT WOULD BE THE NEXT
STREET NORTH OF LIBERTY AND WE WERE HEADING BACK TOWARDS THE TOWERS AND WE FOUND THREE FIREMEN

HEANEY
CLIMBING JUST COMING UP OUT OF THE RUBBLE TWO WERE TRYING TO HELP ONE SO ME AND ANOTHER GUY TOOK HIM HE
HAD BAD HEAD WOUND
WHILE WE WERE DOWN BY THE WATER DROPPING OFF
THE CIVILIANS WAS WITH AND THAT COP THERE WAS AN ESU COP OR SOMEONE THERE WHO SAID HAVE MEDICAL EQUIPMENT SO REMEMBERED HIM SAYING THAT AND WE BROUGHT THIS OFFICER TO HIM AND HE HAD FEW PEOPLE THERE WAS EVEN THERE WAS POLICE LAUNCH BOAT THERE
IT CLEARED THE AIR CLEARED PRETTY GOOD DOWN BY THE WATER SO WE DROPPED HIM OFF AND WE
STARTED HEADING BACK DONT REMEMBER WHAT STREET WE WERE ON DONT REMEMBER EXACT REALLY DONT
REMEMBER WHERE WE WERE BUT AS WE WERE HEADING BACK THE NEXT TOWER CAME DOWN AND AGAIN WE WERE JUST
TOTALLY ENGULFED IN JUST DEBRIS AND WE JUST CURLED UP NEXT TO BUILDING UNTIL IT BLEW AWAY
WE MADE OUR WAY BACK AND EVERYTHING WAS GONE EVERYTHING WAS GONE IT WAS GONE
WITH THE SECOND COLLAPSE DID YOU SEE
ANYTHING
NO WE WERENT CLOSE ENOUGH TO THE SECOND COLLAPSE PLUS THE DUST CLOUD FROM THE FIRST
10

HEANEY
COULDNT EVEN SEE THE TOWER KNEW WHERE IT KNOW MEAN YOU COULD HEAR THE FIRE
11
WAS YOU
YOU HAD GOOD IDEA WHERE IT WAS BUT YOU COULDNT SEE IT ANY MORE SO INSTEAD OF WALKING
STRAIGHT DOWN THE BLOCK WE JUST FIGURED THAT WE HEADED WE WERE NOW MORE NORTH THAN WE WERE WHEN WE WERE AT THE SOUTH TOWER SO WERE RIGHT NEAR THE NORTH TOWER
WE WERE FIGURING IF THE SECOND TOWER IF THE TOWER CAME DOWN TOWER LS COMING DOWN TOO JUST DONT KNOW WHEN SO INSTEAD OF WALKING STRAIGHT DOWN THE STREET WE HEADED BLOCK SOUTH AND THEN HEADED EAST TO GO BACK TO THE TOWERS
JUST FIGURED IF THE TOWERS ARE GOING TO COME DOWN WED PUT BLOCK BETWEEN US WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO MAKE IT JUST KNEW THAT THERE WERE GUYS IN THE TOWER WE KNEW THERE WERE GUYS IN THE TOWER WE SAW THEM COMING SAW THEM RUNNING OUT OF THE BUILDING AND KNEW THEY DIDNT MAKE IT AND THERE IS NO WAY THOSE
GUYS IT
SAW EMERGING FROM THE TOWER WERE GOING TO MAKE
WE GOT BACK TO BASICALLY WHERE THE MARRIOTT HOTEL WAS THATS THE ONLY LANDMARK CAN REMEMBER
THAT AND THE SOUTH PEDESTRIAN WALK AND WE GOT SPLIT UP

HEANEY
FROM THERE THEY WERE TRYING TO GET WATER MARINE
HELPING OUT WITH THAT
MY EYES WERE REALLY BAD AT THIS POINT
THEY WERE JUST REALLY BAD AND THEY BOTHERED ME AND
PROGRESSIVELY GOT WORSE AS THE DAY WENT ON
DONT KNOW WHERE MY COMPANY WENT BUT AT
SOME POINT ON THAT STREET RAN INTO 102 102 TRUCK WAS HOUSED WITH US AND THEY WERE SENT TO THE STAGING
AREA AT THE BROOKLYN BATTERY TUNNEL ON THE BROOKLYN
SIDE WHEN THIS HAPPENED THEY ENDED UP WALKING THROUGH THE TUNNEL AND BY THE TIME THEY CAME OUT THE TOWERS WERE DOWN BUT THEY MET UP WITH ME AT TOWER
BASICALLY WHAT WAS LEFT OF TOWER
DONT KNOW WHERE MY OFFICER WAS DIDNT KNOW WHERE MY CHAUFFEUR WAS DIDNT SEE THEM AGAIN
WE STARTED STRETCHING HOSE WE COULDNT GET WATER FOR ANYTHING THE SATELLITE UNITS WERE SHOWING UP SAW THE MANIFOLDS BEING BROUGHT IN
OFFICERS WERE PLEADING FOR HELP TO TRY AND GET LINE IN PLACE SO JUST STAYED WITH THEM AND
HELPED STRETCH LINE THERE WAS RIG THERE THAT WE WERE STRETCHING HOSE OFF OF DONT KNOW WHAT RIG IT
IN AT THE FOOT OF ONE OF THE STREETS
COMPANIES PULLED
AND THEY JUST STARTED LAYING HOSE AND JUST STARTED
12

HEANEY
WAS SAW 113 TRUCK THEIR RIG IT WAS BASICALLY
INTACT BUT HEAVILY DAMAGED
REMEMBER GETTING DRINK OF WATER OUT OF
THEIR COOLER THERE AND THEN WE JUST STARTED TO PUT OUT THE CAR FIRES AND THE RIGS WERE GOING AMBULANCES
MEAN THERE MUST HAVE BEEN 50 OF THESE THINGS BURNING HEAVILY THE SCOTT CYLINDERS AND THE OXYGEN CYLINDERS WERE ALL LETTING GO THEY WERE ALL BLOWING UP LEFT AND RIGHT
IT WAS QUIET IN THE BEGINNING BUT THEN THE RADIO TRANSMISSIONS STARTED ON THE RADIO AND THEY JUST
DIDNT STOP WHO WAS STUCK HERE REMEMBER HEARING TRUCK BEING STUCK IN STAIRCASE AND THEN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET TO THEM THINK IT WAS
TRUCK DONT KNOW DONT KNOW WHAT TRUCK IT WAS
IT WAS
WAS IT HEARD THAT WHOLE TRANSMISSION OF
THEM TRYING TO TELL WHERE THEY WERE AND THEM NOT EVEN KNOWING THAT THE BUILDING WAS GONE AND BUT KNEW THAT THEY HAD HELP KNEW THAT PEOPLE WERE GOING FOR THEM
ENDED UP WITH AN OFFICER WHO SEEMED TO BE
BY HIMSELF TRYING TO PUT OUT THESE CAR FIRES SO JUST HOOKED UP WITH HIM AND WE PUT OUT BUNCH OF THEM
13

HEANEY
BY THIS TIME IT WAS REALLY REALLY GETTING HARD TO SEE MY EYES WERE REALLY REALLY BAD TRIED
TO GET IN TOUCH WITH MY OFFICER SEVERAL TIMES THE RADIO TRAFFIC REALLY REALLY STARTED GETTING BAD
BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE TRAPPED PEOPLE WERE TRYING TO FIND OUT WHO WAS WHERE
IT WAS VERY HARD TO GET THROUGH HEARD HIM CALLING ME TRIED TO RESPOND DONT KNOW IF HE EVER GOT THE MESSAGE DONT THINK EVEN SAW HIM AGAIN THAT DAY
TIME WENT BY VERY QUICKLY BEFORE KNEW IT IT WAS FOUR OCLOCK IN THE AFTERNOON SOMETHING LIKE
THAT AND WAS LOSING IT
REALLY SEE TOO GOOD
SO WENT UP TO
SOMEONE SAID THAT THEY WERE
AT CITY HALL PARK AND WENT UP TO WENT UP THERE AND SAW SOME OF THE GUYS FROM THIS FIREHOUSE WHO REPORTED FOR THE RECALL AND TOLD THEM WHAT KNEW
KNEW THAT 102 WAS OKAY SAW THEM IN THE COLLAPSE THE COLLAPSES HAD ALREADY OCCURRED AND THEY
WAS PRETTY SHOT
WENT UP TO BROADWAY RECALL WAS BEING HELD
14
COULDNT

HEANEY
WERE STILL ALIVE ALL OF THEM TOLD THEM WHO KNEW WAS STILL ALIVE FROM 209 AGAIN DIDNT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CHAUFFEUR OR THE OFFICER JUST TOLD THEM WHO WAS ALIVE
WENT BACK DOWN WENT BACK DOWN TRIED TO FLUSHED MY EYES OUT WITH WATER IT WASNT
HELPING WENT BACK DOWN FINALLY ONE OF THE GUYS FOUND ME AND THEY PUT ME IN AN AMBULANCE AND THEY SENT ME TO THE STATEN ISLAND FERRY TERMINAL THEY TREATED ME THERE AND THEY PUT SOMETHING IN MY EYES THAT NUMBED THEM AND LIKE MIRACLE COULD SEE AGAIN AND IT DIDNT HURT SO LEFT THERE TOLD THEM IM OKAY AND WENT BACK
AND THE LAST THING REMEMBER WAS BEING ON CHURCH STREET SEEING AND WORLD TRADE CENTER
BLAZING EVERY FLOOR OF THE BUILDING WAS GOING AND JUST THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE COMING NOW
OUR GUYS COPS PEOPLE DONT KNOW JUST THOUSANDS
OF PEOPLE JUST STARTED SHOWING UP
WITHIN HALF AN HOUR THAT MEDICINE THEY
GAVE ME WORE OFF AND WAS TOTALLY BLIND AGAIN ONE OF THE GUYS FOUND ME IT HAPPENED TO BE ONE OF THE GUYS FROM THIS FIREHOUSE FOUND ME WANDERING AROUND COULDNT SEE WAS WAS SHOT JUST COULDNT DO
15

XMP BODYHTML
HEANEY
ANYTHING ANY MORE AND THEY SENT ME TO PACE UNIVERSITY WHERE GOT TRIAGED AND SENT TO THE HOSPITAL FROM
THERE AND THATS ALL
BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN WELL THANKS FOR
YOUR HELP TODD
AND THE TIME NOW IS 1130 THIS CONCLUDES
THE INTERVIEW
16
File No. 9110256
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
     FIREFIGHTER BRIAN FITZPATRICK
   Interview Date:  December 6, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
B. FITZPATRICK
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time is 4:00
o'clock p.m. and this is Battalion Chief Kenahan of the
New York City Fire Department from the Safety
Battalion.  I'm conducting an interview with Brian
Fitzpatrick, Firefighter Sixth Grade from Ladder 22.
     Q.   Hi, Brian.  Just tell us in your own words
what happened.
     A.   I'd say that morning, on September 11th, it
was 8:48 a.m., one gentleman at house watch, one of the
firefighters, saw on the news flash that Tower 1 was
hit, the north tower was hit by a plane.  Everybody
started getting their gear ready because we knew we
were going.  I was actually kind of excited because I
thought it was going to be a big job.  We didn't know
the size of the plane that hit it.  We just saw a lot
of smoke.  Our tones went off and it was a voice alarm
and they were basically just calling companies off.  It
basically ran up the west side.  I remember it going
from 35, 40, 74, 25, straight up the west side they
were calling us, and we responded.  I'm almost 100
percent sure that we were en route pretty much when the
second plane hit.  I don't remember seeing it on the
news when the second plane hit.  So I'm almost 100
percent sure we were en route.
B. FITZPATRICK
3
          When we got down to the scene, it was pretty
hectic.  We pulled up close to the north tower and then
saw that it was pretty ugly, a lot of debris falling, a
lot of people running.  We moved the rig and went to
the west side command post.  Ladder 22 and Ladder 25 I
remember seeing go to the north tower.  I mean, I
apologize, the south tower.  We were basically standing
fast just watching what was going on.
          I remember hearing people shouting about a
third plane being in the air.  I don't know if that's
what held us back from going right away.  But we waited
basically until I saw our Lieutenant Farrington coming
back and we thought he had our orders where we were
going.  So we were grabbing our gear and we were
walking out to meet him and we were in front of the
parking garage in front of 2 World Financial Center,
the Merrill Lynch building, which is basically on the
southwest corner of the north tower and right across
the street from the Vista International Hotel, and
that's when we heard a tremendous noise and it was
coming from the south tower, and we looked up and it
was coming down.
          I basically froze and Rich Banaciski shoved
me and told me to run, and I remember there being a
B. FITZPATRICK
4
large number of people behind us as we turned to run.
I remember making it into the tunnel and it was this
incredible amount of wind, debris, heat.  I remember
falling down, getting back up, and the guys were just
falling all over each other.  It wasn't like we were
trying to kill each other, but it was all bets were
off, just run.
          I made a right in the tunnel.  I was with
some other guys.  I can't remember the engine company.
They're from the east side.  They were trying to force
a door in the right of the tunnel and it turned out to
be a storage shed.  I remember when I fell down, I
picked up a mask and I put the mask on and I was buddy
breathing with a few of the guys because the air was so
thick and pulling out like baseball clumps of debris
out of your mouth.  We knew that we couldn't force that
door.
          My Lieutenant, Farrington, from Engine 76, we
heard him screaming and banging his tool against
something metal and I distinctly remember hearing his
voice.  He had found the exit to the back of 2 World
Financial Center, and it was a maze of stairways, but
we got out.  He found the exit, set up a search rope,
brought it back, and he got out about I'd probably say
B. FITZPATRICK
5
40 guys out of the tunnel.
          Then we exited out by the marina, the North
Cove Yacht Harbor, where we all basically just took a
knee and we waited a couple of minutes.  Everybody was
in shock.  We didn't know what happened.  We just
thought it was debris or an explosion or a secondary
explosion or another bomb inside the building or
another plane.
          We got up and we made our way around through
what turned out to be the North End Avenue and we hit
Vesey.  I'd say probably 25 minutes had elapsed by
now.  We were walking up Vesey and we got to Vesey and
the West Side Highway and we were making the turn.  I
remember seeing the bridge as we turned and somebody
came running by us saying the north tower was leaning.
I didn't even know the south tower fell yet.  I looked
up and I actually saw the antenna coming down.
          I just took off running again.  I headed
straight down Vesey.  I wound up breaking up with the
rest of my company, and I wound up by the railing by
the water.  I remember there was a bunch of senior men
there and they were getting out of their bunker gear
and they were getting ready to jump in the water
because you could see ferries out in the distance
B. FITZPATRICK
6
waving us on.  They said, "Get out of your gear.  We're
going in the water."
          When I was younger, I used to work out in the
Hamptons on people's boats and I remember currents.  I
knew the currents down there would just kill us, you
know, they'd find us in South Jersey.  So I just buried
myself in the fence and hoped for the best.
          The debris cloud pretty much caught us, but
it seemed like right by the time it hit North End it
stopped.  I think the wind was blowing a different
direction.  It was pulling it all east.  That's what it
turned out to be because I remember the command post,
everything that was set up later was set up on the west
side because the wind was taking all the smoke and
debris east.
          I wandered around looking for the rest of my
company, which was Rich Banaciski, Richie Batista,
Billy Reynolds, George Rodriguez, and George was with
the rig and we were sure that he was under it, and
Lieutenant Farrington.  It took me, if I had to guess,
I'd probably say about 45 minutes before I found the
rest of my company and that was on the West Side
Highway and everybody was just lying on the West Side
Highway.  By that time there was just hordes of firemen
B. FITZPATRICK
7
coming down the West Side Highway whatever way they
could get there.  I guess it was the recall.  I don't
know if that was hours later, but I remember seeing
guys that weren't working that day that came down, and
we were all just waiting to get back in.
          When they let us back in, it was early
afternoon.  I'd say it was probably 1:30, 2:00
o'clock.  We searched 140 West, the New York Telephone
Company building, for 15, 16 floors.  It was myself,
George Rodriguez, Doug Robinson, a battalion aide, and
Captain Pellegrinelli.  We forced numerous amounts of
doors, but we were basically searching in the wreckage
of, if you were on West Side Highway, it would be the
exposure four side of the telephone company building.
It had gaping, massive holes that you could fit a house
in, you know, what it looked like from the inside.  So
we basically crawled in the rubble there and looked for
victims on each floor because the holes took up several
floors.
          We heard a Mayday for everybody to get out of
the building -- no, I'm sorry, an urgent, three
urgents, and we came out of the building.  I'd say that
was like an hour and a half, two hours later.  We were
then positioned on Vesey Street between North End and
B. FITZPATRICK
8
the West Side Highway because there was an imminent
collapse on 7 World Trade, and it did collapse.
          As far as other companies, I don't know.  I
knew from sticking my head out the window going down
that we were by 35 and 40.  I think they were ahead of
us when we pulled in.  I'm sorry.  35 Truck and I can't
remember the engine down there, 25, 74, I think 47 was
there.
     Q.   These are all the rigs that were on West
street?
     A.   Yes.  We were headed down together.  From
what I saw, we all pretty much met up on the West Side
Highway at the same time because the alarms went off
and we're all fairly the same distance from the on
ramps.
          That's about it.  That's my story.  I wish I
could be more helpful.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  No, that's been
fine.  You've been very helpful.  Thank you for your
cooperation.
          THE WITNESS:  No problem.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time now is
4:10 and this interview is completed.
File No. 9110257
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER LOUIS GIACONELLI
   Interview Date:  December 6, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
L. GIACONELLI
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today's date is
December 6, 2001.  The time is 6:52 p.m. and this is
Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan of the Safety Battalion
of the Fire Department of the City of New York.  I'm
conducting an interview with Louis Giaconelli.
     Q.   Please tell us anything you remember about
the events of September 11th.
     A.   I reported in for work before the change of
tours and I was already ready to drive.  I was assigned
chauffeur that day in Engine 53.  I was upstairs in the
bunk room when the first plane hit the first tower.  I
heard some of the other firefighters talking about it.
I slid the pole, made sure I had all my gear on the rig
and made sure that the rig was full of fuel.
          Then the second plane hit the second tower.
I was pretty sure after the first plane had hit the
first tower that we'd be going down there, and when the
second plane hit, I definitely knew we were going down
there.  Then we were assigned on the second fifth alarm
to the second tower that was struck.
          I started to drive down there.  I went on
various streets.  I do remember going down Lexington
Avenue to 97th Street, I believe, and then I went down
5th Avenue to the 90th Street entrance to Central Park,
L. GIACONELLI
3
and I went down Central Park Drive on the east side to
72nd Street, across 72nd Street, and I got on the West
Drive and came out of the park by Tavern on the Green
on 66th Street, I think, and Central Park West.  I went
down Broadway to 57th Street, made a right, and I went
to 11th Avenue, where we started to pick up radio
transmissions that we were to respond down 11th Avenue
because the police had opened up lanes for us or they
had corridors open for us.  So I went down 11th Avenue
and, sure enough, we picked up a few police cars in
front of us or vans and we made it down there pretty
quick.
          When I got there, there were already a
significant amount of rigs there, and I found a parking
spot along the right-hand side, along the west side of
West Street, and I actually was close to a hydrant that
I could have hooked up to if I had to.  I noticed that
rigs were parked on both sides of the street and that
there was a lane open straight down.
          So when we got there, we were driving down,
obviously, we had a clear view of the towers.  We knew
that both of them were on fire.  There were thousands
of people running up West Street when we were driving
down, thousands of people.  So I parked the rig.
L. GIACONELLI
4
Everybody got out, got their masks on, and I yelled to
my officer, I said, "I'm not going to stay here with
the rig."  I said, "I'm going to come with you guys."
He said, "Yeah, definitely."  So I had all my bunker
gear with me and I had a spare mask.  So I put it all
on and I went down with the company.  We walked down
West Street and we reported in to the command post
staging area.
          As we were walking down, I was just looking
up and I saw it was a lot of smoke, but it was up
high.  It was a crystal clear day and there was a lot
of stuff in the air, in the sky, floating around, and I
was trying to get my bearings.  I saw something weird
coming off the building and I looked up and I didn't
know what it was and I was trying to get a sense of
what was happening, if things were falling on us, but
it turned out they were bodies.  There were people
jumping off the top of the buildings.  So then I
realized how bad it was up there.
          We got in to the command post staging area
and my officer Reported in and tried to get us an
assignment.  So we stood in the staging area, which was
in the driveway to an underground garage going into the
World Financial Center.  We stood there for a few
L. GIACONELLI
5
minutes and made sure we had all our gear on, and we
were trying to figure out what was going on and it was
a calamity.  A lot of smoke, a lot of debris coming
down, bodies coming down, landing right in front of
us.
          So while we were waiting to get our
assignment, Captain John Sudnik, who I knew from 23
Engine, I think, was giving out the assignments and he
asked my officer if we could move some rigs to make
sure the lanes were clear coming down to  the World
Financial Center.  So it was myself -- I wasn't the
only chauffeur working.  I know Kevin McGovern was
working, too.  He was a chauffeur.  Eddie Cachia was
working also and he was a chauffeur.  So we had those
two guys and two probies with us.
          So between the three of us, we dropped our
masks and all our gear, we kept our bunker gear on,
though, and we walked back up West Street to see if any
rigs had to be moved, like he asked us to do, and we
found one or two.  I know I myself moved one or two, I
don't recall, that were blocking the path a little bit,
and I got them out of the way.  Then we got together
again and we all started walking back down West Street.
          I remember passing underneath that north
L. GIACONELLI
6
pedestrian bridge, and I was just about to get back to
the entrance to the driveway to the staging area and I
heard this sound, and it was like a train, like a huge
train rumbling, and I knew that something was coming
off the building, but I didn't know what it was.  So I
think Lieutenant Doherty and Eddie Cachia were in front
of me.  We were kind of walking in single file, and I
think those two guys were in front of me and I was
third or fourth.  I don't recall.  I know the two
probies were behind me and I think Kevin McGovern was a
little behind me, too.
          So I remember Lieutenant Doherty and Eddie
Cachia went for the driveway and I said to myself I
wasn't going to make it, but I knew I had to find
someplace to ditch.  So I looked to my right and a
High-Rise 2 Unit, which I didn't notice at the time
what it was, but I figured out later a High-Rise 2 Unit
was parked on the grass to the right of the staging
area driveway and just in front of the entrance to the
big glass atrium going into the World Financial
Center.  I didn't think I could make it to the entrance
of the building.  I think that's where Kevin McGovern
went, and I don't know where the probies went.
          So I just dove underneath the High-Rise 2
L. GIACONELLI
7
Unit.  I dove underneath there, and just as I got
underneath there, the first building had collapsed.  I
didn't realize the whole building had collapsed.  I
knew something significant had come down, but I didn't
realize at the time that it was the whole building.  So
I dove under the rig and there was another guy
underneath there with me.  It turned out he was a fire
patrolman.  He wasn't a firefighter.  But we were under
the rig and the next thing I knew, I heard the crash, I
felt the impact, and it went from day to night.
          We couldn't see anything.  I couldn't see
anything, and then, of course, we couldn't breathe
anymore, and the guy next to me starts yelling that he
couldn't breathe, couldn't breathe.  I had my hood
around my neck and I was able to get it up over my
nose, and between breathing through my hood and into my
coat, I was able to breathe for a while.  I just laid
there for a few minutes and tried to stay calm and get
the other guy calmed down and I just waited until I
thought everything was safe again.
          So after a few minutes we were able to see
some light again, and I started to crawl out and I dug
myself out and then I poked my head out from under the
rig.  The other guy came out with me and we stood up
L. GIACONELLI
8
and kind of shook each other, made sure we were okay.
I said, "Are you all right?"  He said, "Yes."  He said,
"Are you all right?"  I said, "Yeah, we're all
right."
          So with that we kind of went our separate
ways, and I just took a quick look around and I don't
recall ever looking up.  I don't really ever recall
looking up.  Not that there was anything to see.  It
was all dust and debris and there really wasn't much to
see.
          So I made my way back just a couple of feet
into the driveway and I went looking for my mask and I
found it.  It was right where I had left it and it was
buried, but I was able to dig it out.  Most of our
equipment was still all there and everybody was clearly
shook.  I don't mean shook that they were scared.  They
obviously had been affected by the impact of this
thing, and we were all covered with dust and dirt and
debris and you couldn't breathe and that stuff.  So I
got my mask on, but by the time I got it on and hooked
up, I didn't have to put it on my face.  I was able to
breathe normally.  I made my way down into the entrance
of the underground garage and into the World Financial
Center.
L. GIACONELLI
9
          So we decided to make our way up the stairway
of that basement of that building up into the upper
floors.  When I got into the building and we started
finding our way in there, we were kind of strung out
and I was still with Lieutenant Doherty, I think, and
Eddie Cachia.  Kevin McGovern and the two probies, I
don't know where they were.  I remember trying to find
my way through this maze down there and I finally found
a staircase and made my way up.
          Somewhere along in that process I came across
the members of Ladder 16.  Danny Williams was the
officer I remember and I know Stevie Wright was there,
Joe Petrich, Oscar Davila, and I can't remember who
else.  But they had an EMS worker, I don't know if he
was a New York City EMS worker, but he was definitely
an EMS worker or EMT, on a stretcher, not a board, not
a back board, a stretcher, and they asked me if I could
help them carry this guy out.  I kind of said, "Well,
what's wrong with him?"  They said, "We think he has a
broken leg and a broken arm."
          So he was kind of a big guy and they were
having a really tough time trying to get him up the
stairs because it was a real tight staircase and this
guy was big and we had all our gear on.  I mean, I had
L. GIACONELLI
10
all my bunker gear on and my mask, and we were trying
to carry this guy up.  I think there were about four or
five guys from Ladder 16, me and maybe one other guy, I
don't recall, and we struggled to get this guy up these
stairs.  We struggled so bad that even at one point I
asked the guy if it was possible that he could walk
because we were having such a hard time with him, and
the guy said he didn't think so.
          Anyway, we wound up carrying him up.  I don't
know how many flights of stairs it was, but we got him
up.  I think it was probably at least three, maybe four
flights, and we popped a door and we wound up in the
huge atrium or lobby of the World Financial Center.  We
carried him out and I made it through the building and
came out on the back side of the building.  So now I
was in I think it's the harbor area.  I don't know what
it's called.
Q. Marina?
     A.   The marina area, I guess.  So that building
is 2 World Financial Center.  That's the Merrill Lynch
building, I guess.
          So I came out on the other side and I found
Lieutenant Doherty from 53 and Eddie Cachia from 53 and
they were searching around there, and we talked for a
L. GIACONELLI
11
few minutes and made sure we were okay and tried to
digest what had happened to us.  We started searching
around, and I was curious or worried about what had
happened to Kevin McGovern and the two probies.
Somehow or another they went in one direction and I
went in the other.  I wound up going into, looking at
the map here, it says the Winter Garden, which was this
glass atrium that I was in.
          So I went into the glass atrium and I started
working my way to the front of the building.  When I
was in there, it was pretty desolate.  I didn't see any
other firefighters and I really didn't see any other
people, except I do remember seeing a few civilians
walking around and they looked like they were workers
from the building, not us, but maintenance workers that
had semi-uniforms on.
          So I started working my way to the front of
the building and I got to the front door of the
building.  When I got to the front door of the
building, I took a quick look up and I saw that the
north tower was directly in front of me, still burning,
and I don't really remember looking for the south
tower, but my view might have been obstructed at that
point because the Winter Garden door was a little set
L. GIACONELLI
12
back from the World Financial Center entrance.
          So I took a few steps outside the entrance of
the building onto the stairway there, and the High-Rise
2 Unit that I had been under when the first building
came down was parked right there on the right-hand side
on the grass.  I took a few steps and I was looking
around, and the next thing I knew, I heard the same
sound that I'd heard when the first building had come
down.  So I didn't have to look up.  I knew what the
sound was.  I didn't have to look up.  It was the same
sound I had heard when the first building came down.
          So, again, I was caught out in the open and I
didn't really know where to go.  I guess instantly I
decided not to go under the High-Rise 2 Unit.  I
decided to turn and try and run back into the
building.  So that's what I did.
          As I ran through the door, I remember saying
to myself close the door behind you, close the door
behind you.  But, of course, I didn't really have time
to do that or even attempt it.  I just tried to run as
fast as I could, and I didn't get very far.  The
building came down and, of course, the concussion from
the impact blew me down and knocked me down and blew my
helmet off my head and sent me flying down I guess it
L. GIACONELLI
13
was the hallway of the main entrance of the building.
          There was a tremendous crash and glass and
then the same effect that had happened the first time.
It went from day to night.  A huge, huge blast of hot
wind gusting and smoke and dust and all kinds of debris
hit me and blew me over and covered me, and the same
thing.  I just tried to get my head down into my hood
and my face inside of my coat where I could try and
breathe again because it was the same thing.  I
couldn't see and I couldn't breathe.  It was just a
repeat of the same thing that happened to me the first
time.
          So I waited, it seemed like an eternity, but
I waited a few seconds, and then, of course, I
remembered that I had my mask on my back this time.  So
I reached back and turned it on or made sure it was on,
I don't recall, and grabbed the face piece.  Of course,
I blew into the face piece like you're supposed to do
and it didn't make any difference.  The face piece was
full of debris and dust and who knows what else.  I
took a couple of quick hits off it and I got two
mouthfuls and nosefuls and my eyes all full of stuff
that was in the mask and the stuff that was all around
me.
L. GIACONELLI
14
          Eventually that cleared up and I was able to
wear the mask.  I got my mask on and, of course, I
started hearing some screaming and yelling around me.
So there obviously were some other people around, and
then I remembered that I had seen a few civilians or
these maintenance workers in the building to my right
as I had walked in, so then now they were to my left.
So I started crawling along the floor because I couldn't see anything, and I was right alongside the wall and I got my right hand on the wall and started following the wall along, and I found my helmet. Hard to believe, but I found my helmet. It had been blown down the hallway a distance and I came across it and I wasabletogetitonmyhead. Ihadalsohada flashlight. So I just crawled along the wall, crawled along the wall, and I heard a guy screaming in front of me and, sure enough, I eventually came to him and found him. I grabbed him and told him he was okay, and I just said, "Stay with me and we'll find our way out."
          As I started going along, I came across the
other people that I heard yelling or screaming in the
atrium.  So I got them all together and I had them all
hold on to me or follow me along the wall and somehow
or another I saw light.  Even though it was pitch black
L. GIACONELLI
15
where I was and we couldn't see, I saw light coming
from somewhere.  I said, "Let's go.  Let's see where
this light is coming from."
          It turned out that it was a storefront and
the light was coming from another atrium that was
behind the store that was in the atrium.  I don't
remember if the door was open or whatever.  I didn't
have to force the door, but we were able to open it.
Maybe it just swung open.  I popped in there and it was
clear as a bell in there.  We could see and we could
breathe.  So I got all these people in there.
          What these guys were doing, and I give them a
lot of credit, these maintenance guys, they had a
woman, a black woman, I remember, and she was kind of
large also and they, much to their credit, were trying
to carry her out of this building.  They were inside
the building, but they still got impacted by the
collapse of the north tower.
          So I got them all into the storefront and got
them all calmed down.  They were pretty excited and
nervous.  I got them all calmed down and I said,
"Okay.  We're okay here.  Just stay here," I said,
"and I'll find a way out and then I'll come back and
get you.  So just stay here.  I'll find a way out and
16
flashlight, the same thing, just followed along the
right-hand side of the wall, worked my way around.  I
went through the whole glass atrium and I found an exit
door and I popped out, and again I popped out onto the
harbor side of the World Financial Center.  So then I
got my bearings and I left the door open and I retraced
my steps back to the same store that I had left the
people in and got them out.  I counted heads and I made
sure I had, I believe it was seven people.  I made sure
I had seven, and I said, "Okay.  Let's just follow me
and we'll just follow our way out."  I just followed
the wall all the way back and they followed me, and I
got them back to that exit door and got them out into
the harbor area and that was it.  That was the last I
saw of them.
          Then I started looking around, and it was
pretty desolate down there.  There was really nobody
around.  Off in the distance I saw my Lieutenant, Bobby
Doherty, and Eddie Cachia from 53, and they had been
down by the seawall when the second tower had come
down.  They said they had wedged themselves up against
it and still got blasted there, too, tremendously.  I
L. GIACONELLI
I'll come back and get you."
          I put my mask back on again and I had my
L. GIACONELLI
17
guess you could say they were kind of far away but
really not far away enough, and they were impacted
enough that Bobby Doherty said he actually thought he
was going to have to jump in the water to get away from
it.
          So then we regrouped, the three of us, and we
didn't know what to do really.  It was clear that where
we had been had been completely demolished and
devastated, and we were in pretty bad shape.  Our eyes
were full of stuff and, of course, our noses and our
mouths were all full of debris and we were trying to
breathe.  Because we knew we couldn't use our masks
constantly.  We would run out of air.  So in the open
air we had to breathe the air.  We just couldn't use
our tanks for any length of time.
          So we started working our way north around
the back of the World Financial Center, and I guess we
either went through the back, the glass atrium behind
the American Express building, or we went on -- I'm
looking at the map here.  It looks like maybe North End
Avenue.  I don't recall how we found our way to Vesey
Street.  But somehow or another we found our way to
Vesey Street, and then we went over to West Street and
we started to walk north.
L. GIACONELLI
18
          We went north about as far as Barclay, I
believe, and we sat down along the wall there and we
tried to collect our thoughts and figure out what to do
and what had happened to us and all that.  I don't
think we ever really realized that the two buildings
had come down.  I guess we maybe knew it but we weren't
sure.  We sat down and, again, we were surrounded by
hundreds of people, a lot of cops.  Everybody was
covered with dirt and dust and debris.
          I noticed a lot of people had cell phones.
So for some reason or another we asked somebody if we
could use their cell phone, and Kevin McGovern called
his wife and we asked his wife to notify my family and
Bobby Doherty's family that we were okay.
          Then we sat there for a few minutes and we
came across a lot of people, but I remember
specifically running into Pete Clinton, who was the
chauffeur of Engine 22, and Joey Graziano, who was the
chauffeur of Ladder 13, and they looked shook, but Pete
Clinton was all banged up.  He wasn't wearing bunker
gear.  He was driving.  He just had shorts on and a
work shirt, and he was all banged up and bruised and
covered with dust and clearly distraught.  Joe Graziano
had all his gear on.  As it turned out, they were the
L. GIACONELLI
19
only survivors of their company, and I told them to
stay with us.  They stayed with us for a while, and
then we decided to make our way back down West Street
back to the site to see what we could do.  We didn't
stay up there very long, maybe ten or 15 minutes.
          So we made our way back down West Street and
on the way down I started looking for our rig.  I
didn't know where our rig was.  I couldn't remember
where I parked it.  Of course, the whole landscape now
changed, so I had no idea where it was.  So we started
walking down West Street and I was looking for the rig,
looking for the rig, and I couldn't find it.  I thought
for sure that it had been crushed.
          So we made our way back down as far as we
could and started searching around, and I asked
somebody if they knew where 53's rig was and somebody,
I don't recall who, said they thought they saw it, it
was over on the west side, somebody had moved it.  So I
told Bobby Doherty, "Let's see if we can find the rig,"
because, obviously, if we could find the rig, we could
get some tools and maybe fresh bottles for our masks
and start working down at the site.
          So all of us took a walk over on Vesey Street
and, sure enough, there was the rig.  It was hooked up
L. GIACONELLI
20
to one of the marine units.  It was already hooked up
and pumping water.  It was relaying water to another
engine and they were supplying a tower ladder with
water.  I guess they were pouring water I think on the
Customs Building.  We also noticed that 7 World
Financial Center was fully involved there, too.
          We started getting whatever gear we needed
off the rig, and there was another chauffeur working on
53's rig and he was supplying water.  He asked me if I
was the chauffeur of 53, and I said yes, I was.  He
said, "Would you mind taking over here?  I'd like to
get back to my unit."  I said yeah, sure, I would, and
I basically operated for the rest of the day while 53's
guys went down to the site.  I went over there a few
times, but I basically operated 53's rig for most of
the day pumping water, relaying it to the other engines
and the tower ladder.
          I did go over to the site a few times to try
and help out, but my eyes were very bad and I couldn't
really see very well.  About 2:00 or 3:00 in the
afternoon, I finally had gotten them washed out once,
but it didn't work, and I started going to the triage
areas and washing my eyes out, washing my eyes out, and
they just weren't getting any better.
L. GIACONELLI
21
          I wound up staying down there.  I was down
there from about 9:20 in the morning until maybe 10:00,
10:30 at night, and we wound up going to the main
medical facility and they told me my eyes were no good,
they had to take me to the hospital, and they wound up
taking me and Eddie Cachia and I think Bobby Doherty,
too, to the hospital, where they worked on my eyes and
checked me out for anything else that was wrong.
          One thing I forgot to say was, after the
second building had collapsed and we worked our way up
West Street, I had run into the two probies that I had
been looking for all morning, Mike Catalano and Dan
Schofield, and they were okay.  I still to this day
don't really know where they went.  I don't know if
they ran into the Winter Garden glass atrium or if they
just went up north on West street after the first
building had collapsed, and I don't know where they
were when the second building had collapsed.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Okay.  Well, thanks
a lot, Louie.  We appreciate your cooperation.  The
time now is 7:22 p.m.  This concludes the interview.

FILE NO 9110258
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER VINCENT PALMIERI
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

PALMIERI
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN THE DATE IS DECEMBER 2001 THE TIME IS NOW 1108 AM THIS IS
BATTALION CHIEF JOHN MALKIN OF THE SAFETY BATTALION OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT
IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW TODAY WITH FIREFIGHTER FIRST VINCENT PALMIERI OF ENGINE
COMPANY NUMBER REGARDING EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11
2001 WE IS NO ONE INTERVIEW
ARE IN THE QUARTERS OF ENGINE THERE ELSE PRESENT IN THE ROOM AND THE
BEGINS NOW
SAY WHATEVER YOU LIKE
BASICALLY WAS ON MY WAY INTO THE CITY THAT DAY THROUGH NEW JERSEY WHEN FIRST HEARD OF PLANE HITTING THE TRADE CENTER AND TUNED INTO 1010 WINS TO HEAR WHAT WAS GOING ON BEING FROM LOWER MANHATTAN KNEW ALL THE COMPANIES WOULD BE THERE AS WAS GOING FURTHER IN ON THE TURNPIKE STARTED COMING IN THROUGH THE HOLLAND TUNNEL WHEN THE SECOND PLANE HIT WAS ABLE TO ACTUALLY SEE THE TRADE CENTER BOTH OF THEM SMOKE COMING FROM THEM
WENT THROUGH THE HOLLAND TUNNEL GOT IN STARTED HEADING TOWARDS MY FIRE HOUSE WHICH IS
ENGINE GOT TO ENGINE AND GOT MY GEAR TOGETHER CHANGED PUT MY UNIFORM ON TOOK QUICK LOOK AT THE

PALMIERI
CARS OUTSIDE QUARTERS SO WOULD HAVE AN IDEA OF WHO WAS ON DUTY THAT DAY BUT REALLY DIDNT LOOK AT THE
RIDING LIST OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT MADE QUICK MARK IN THE JOURNAL SO SOMEONE WOULD HAVE SOME SORT OF IDEA THAT WAS ON MY WAY OVER JUST STARTED HEADING OVER TO WHERE KNEW THE COMPANY WOULD BE OR THE LOBBY COMMAND POST WOULD PROBABLY BE SET UP IN THE NORTH TOWER
WALKED UP PARK ROW MADE RIGHT WENT DOWN
VESEY STREET CUT ACROSS VESEY STREET CROSSED CHURCH AND STARTED HEADING TOWARDS THE ENTRANCE OF WORLD
TRADE CENTER WHICH IS RIGHT ON THAT CORNER JUST AS WAS ABOUT TO GET MAYBE ABOUT 20 OR 30 FEET FROM THE ENTRANCE OF WORLD TRADE CENTER IS WHEN THE SOUTH
TOWER BEGAN TO COLLAPSE
WAS WITH FEMALE POLICE SERGEANT
GROUP OF CIVILIANS AND GOT EVERYBODY AGAINST THE BUILDING
WALL WHICH IS RIGHT BY BORDERS AND BOOKS AND WE TOOK
COVER UNDER THE OVERPASS OF WORLD TRADE CENTER THEN
BASICALLY THE COLLAPSE OCCURRED WASNT TOTALLY SURE IF WE WERE CAUGHT IN IT OR NOT JUST BASICALLY WAITED
UNTIL WE HAD SOME SORT OF VISIBILITY TO TRY TO MAKE MY WAY OUT
WAITED PERIOD OF TIME IM NOT SURE OF

PALMIERI
THE TIME HERE HECAUSE LOST TRACK OF TIME WAITED TILL HAD LITTLE BIT OF VISIBILITY TURNED MY LIGHT ON AND TOLD EVERYONE TO STAY WITH ME DECIDED THE BEST THING TO DO WOULD BE TO GET AWAY FROM THE AREA SINCE HAD NO IDEA OF WHAT WAS GOING ON WE WERE GOING TO TRY TO HEAD TO THE END OF THE BUILDING LINE FOLLOWING THE WALL AND THEN HEAD DIAGONALLY ACROSS CHURCH TO THE OPPOSITE CORNER OF VESEY THEN TRY TO GO UP VESEY AND GET OUT OF HERE
HAD EVERYBODY STAY WITH ME THERE WAS ONE GENTLEMAN CIVILIAN WHO WAS CUT PRETTY BAD
BELIEVE IT WAS ON HIS RIGHT ARM TOLD HIM JUST
FOLLOW ALONG WE WOULD GET HIM MEDICAL HELP AS SOON AS
COULD AS WE FOLLOWED ALONG THE WALL CAME INTO GROUP OF ESU OFFICERS SO THAT WAS RIGHT OUTSIDE OF BORDERS AND BOOKS ON THAT CORNER THEY HAD DONNED AIR MASKS THINK THEY WERE EITHER ESU OR PORT
AUTHORITY THEY WERENT FIREMEN THE MASKS LOOKED DIFFERENT AND THEY WERENT IN FIREMAN
GEAR
THEY WERE HEADED ACTUALLY BACK TOWARDS THE
ENTRANCE OF WORLD TRADE CENTER TO TRY TO GO IN THE
BUILDING WAS LIKE GUYS DONT KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING BUT WE DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED WOULDNT TRY
TO GO IN LETS GET OUT AND FIND OUT WHATS GOING ON

PALMIERI
BEFORE WE GO IN THEY SAID GOOD IDEA THEY TURNED
AROUND SAID WE GOT TO GO THIS WAY OUT THEY STARTED GOING ALONG THE WALL LIKE WE WERE
WHEN REACHED THE END OF THE WALL THEY WENT ONE WAY AND LED AND STAYED WITH THE GROUP OF
PEOPLE BROUGHT THEM ACROSS THE STREET LIKE SAID DIAGONALLY ACROSS TO THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF CHURCH AND VESEY THERE WAS CONSTRUCTION AWNING UP THERE
WENT UNDERNEATH THERE THERE WAS BEAUTY PARLOR LIKE ON THE CORNER FEW STORES IN OFF VESEY THERE WAS DELI
SOME POLICE OFFICERS HAD ALREADY TAKEN THE FRONT DOOR TO THE DELI THEY TOOK OUT THE GLASS AND THEY WERE GETTING PEOPLE INSIDE THERE THERE WAS STILL
LOT OF SMOKE BUT VISIBILITY WAS PRETTY DECENT NOT
TOTALLY
DARK
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN ITS 1112 HAD
TO SHUT THE TAPE WE WERE INTERRUPTED BY SOMEBODY COMING INTO THE ROOM WE NOW RESUME AT 1113
HOURS
AGAIN PALMIERI BASICALLY THERE WAS AN
OFFICER HE TOOK OUT THE DOOR TO SOME SORT OF DELI HE
WAS GETTING PEOPLE IN THERE WE WERE STILL IN LIGHT SMOKE CONDITION NOT TOO BAD BUT WE DIDNT KNOW WHAT

PALMIERI
WAS GOING ON PEOPLE THAT WAS WITH AND FEMALE SERGEANT TOLD THE OFFICER GET THEM IN THERE ONE OF THE GUYS IS HURT BAD YOU GOT TO GET HIM IN AN AMBULANCE IM GOING TO GO BACK AND TRY TO FIND MY COMPANY JUST WANTED TO FIND MY COMPANY AND FIND OUT WHERE THEY WERE KNEW WHERE THEY WERE PROBABLY AT
SO TURNED AROUND AND AS IM GETTING BACK INTO VESEY STREET SUBURBAN COMES DOWN VESEY STREET FIRE DEPARTMENT SUBURBAN COMES DOWN VESEY STREET
BUNCH OF GUYS JUMP OUT GO UP TO THE OFFICER WHO WAS IN THE PASSENGER SIDE SAID WHERE
ARE YOU GUYS FROM THEY SAID THEY ARE FROM THE ROCK
RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT IF BELIEVE CORRECTLY TOLD THEM OKAY
DURING THIS ONLY HAD MY BUNKER COAT ON AND MY HELMET AFTER THE COLLAPSE DROPPED MY BUNKER PANTS FIGURED WE WOULD BE WALKING UP 80 FLIGHTS EITHER WAY SO WAS CARRYING THE BUNKER PANTS LEFT THE BUNKER PANTS AFTER THE COLLAPSE ONLY HAD THE COAT AND HELMET THE OFFICER ASKED ME ARE YOU ALL RIGHT ARE YOU OKAY SAID YES HAVE NO MASK AND NO PANTS THEY WERE GEARING UP THEY WERE GOING TO GO IN AND TRY TO DO SEARCH AND FIND SOME GUYS SO TOLD ONE OF THE GUYS LOOK ONLY GOT SHORTS ON IM READY

PALMIERI
TO GO DO YOU HAVE AN EXTRA PAIR OF BUNKER PANTS HE GAVE ME HIS BUNKER PANTS AND HIS BOOTS COULDNT GET
MASK FROM THEM BUT WAS ABLE TO GET AN AXE AND
GOT SEARCH ROPE THINK THERE WERE FIREMEN AND TWO LIEUTENANTS THEY ASKED ME TO STAY WITH THIS OTHER LIEUTENANT HE SEEMED LITTLE BIT OLDER THAN THE REST OF THEM AND HE WALKED WITH LIMP DONT KNOW ANY OF THE GUYS NAMES
THERE WAS ALSO AN ENGINE PARKED ON THE CORNER WHICH WOULD BE THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF VESEY AND CHURCH HE WAS HOOKED UP TO HYDRANT AND HE HAD THE SPICKET GOING AND THE WATER FLOWING WENT OVER TOLD THE GUYS WAIT UP MINUTE WASHED OFF GOT THE STUFF OUT OF MY EYES CLEARED MY MOUTH AS BEST AS
COULD AND TOOK DRINK
THEN THEY STARTED HEADING UP VESEY STREET THAT WOULD BE WESTBOUND DOWN VESEY ALONG THE WORLD
TRADE CENTER SITE WAS WITH THE OTHER LIEUTENANT LIKE SAID SO WE WERE MAYBE HALF BLOCK BEHIND THEM SAID LOU LOOK KNOW THE AREA DOWN HERE HAVE BEEN HERE LONG TIME DONT THINK ITS THE BEST MOVE FOR US TO WALK UP VESEY STREET WE DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT HAPPENED
AT THAT POINT DONT THINK EITHER OF US

PALMIERI
COULD LOOK UP THERE WAS STILL TOO MUCH SMOKE TO KNOW THAT THE ENTIRE SOUTH TOWER HAD COLLAPSED WE THOUGHT
MAYBE PORTION COLLAPSED SO SAID THINK WE SHOULD GO ONE BLOCK NORTH AND COME DOWN BARCLAY WHICH IS WHAT
WE DID WE WENT DOWN CHURCH AND STARTED TO COME DOWN BARCLAY AND THAT WAS JUST ME THIS LIEUTENANT AND IT
WAS ACTUALLY AN OFF DUTY FORMER UNION PRESIDENT BOYLE
WE MET UP WITH HIM HE WAS LOOKING FOR HIS SON WHO WAS IN 33 ENGINE THAT DAY THE REST OF THE GUYS JUST DECIDED TO CONTINUE UP VESEY STREET NEVER RAN INTO THEM AGAIN FOR THE REST OF THE DAY SO DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM
THIS OFFICER AND WERE WALKING DOWN BARCLAY STREET DONT KNOW THE EXACT HOW FAR DOWN WE
GOT ALSO WITH BOYLE WHEN WE HEARD THE SAME NOISE THAT
HAD HEARD BEFORE KNEW IT WAS THE SECOND BUILDING
STARTING TO COLLAPSE THE NORTH TOWER COLLAPSING THE OFFICER WAS WITH HAD HIS OFFICERS TOOL WE JUST
HAPPENED TO BE UNDER CONSTRUCTION TYPE AWNING AND IN FRONT OF GLASS DOORS TO AN ENTRANCE TO ONE OF THE
BUILDINGS ON VESEY DONT REMEMBER THE EXACT
ADDRESS BUT KNOW IT IS DC 37S HEADQUARTERS THINK

PALMIERI
HE MADE THE MOVE HE STARTED TO TAKE THE FRONT DOORS HAD THE AXE MOVED WITH HIM WE TOOK THE DOORS WENT INTO THE LOBBY LOOKING TO SEE IF ANYBODY WAS IN THE LOBBY AT THIS POINT THE BUILDING CONTINUED TO COLLAPSE THE BUILDING IS SURROUNDED BY SMOKE WE ENDED UP MEETING AN ENGINE COMPANY
BELIEVE FROM BROOKLYN IN THE LOBBY HALF THE COMPANY WAS THERE HALF OF THEIR COMPANY WAS STILL IN THE STREET
ONE OF THE GUYS WAS LIKE MY OFFICER AN ENGINE OFFICER AND THE CHAUFFEUR WAS STILL OUT IN THE STREET WE MADE IT INTO THE LOBBY AND WAS LIKE THERES LOT OF DUST OUT THERE IT DOESNT LOOK LIKE THE COLLAPSE CAME THIS FAR UP BECAUSE THE OTHER BUILDINGS WOULD HAVE BLOCKED IT SO BELIEVE THEIR RIG WAS PARKED ON YOU DONT HAVE IT MARKED HERE AND DONT KNOW THE NAME OF THE STREET
THEIR RIG WAS EITHER DONT BELIEVE IT WAS WEST STREET THIS STREET HERE ITS BETWEEN WEST
STREET AND WEST BROADWAY BETWEEN BARCLAY AND MURRAY THINK ITS GREENWICH STREET THINK THAT IS THE
NAME OF THE STREET GREENWICH
GREENWICH THINK THATS THE STREET
THEY

PALMIERI
WERE ON SO HE TOOK THE SEARCH ROPE AND HIM AND ONE OF THE GUYS DECIDED THEY WANTED TO GO OUT AND FIND THEIR OFFICER AND THE ENGINE CHAUFFEUR WE SAID ALL RIGHT
WE WILL WAIT HERE WE WILL GIVE YOU FEW MINUTES IF YOU DONT COME BACK WE WILL FOLLOW THE ROPE OUT AND COME GET YOU
WE TOOK FEED AND WAITED FOR THEM TO COME BACK AND THE ENGINE OFFICER AND THE CHAUFFEUR WERE
FINE THEY JUST TOOK FEED THEY WERE IN THE STREET BUT THEY WERE OKAY THERE WAS DONT BELIEVE ANY
SERIOUS INJURIES
BASICALLY THEN WE WERE IN THE LOBBY FOR
FEW MINUTES COUPLE OF GUYS MADE PHONE CALLS TO
THEIR WIVES AND STUFF THE ORIGINAL OFFICER THAT WAS
WITH FROM THE COMPANY FROM RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT DONT KNOW IF HE WORKED THERE BUT HE CAME WITH THEM
FROM THE ROCK DECIDED TO GO OUT ON HIS OWN AND TRY TO FIND HIS GUYS NOW DECIDED WOULD STAY WITH THIS
ENGINE COMPANY AND OPERATE WITH THEM AS COMPANY TRIED TO GET THEM TO COME AROUND WITH ME AND LOOK FOR
THE MAIN ENTRANCE FOR THE NORTH TOWER OF THE TRADE CENTER TO TRY TO GET IN
BASICALLY THATS WHAT WE DID WE STAYED TOGETHER WE WALKED OUT DOWN BARCLAY GOT TO WEST
10

PALMIERI
STREET CAME UP WEST STREET NOTICED AN ENGINE
HOOKED UP WITH COUPLE OF LINES COMING OFF OF IT NOTICED HE HAD HYDRANT HE HAD GOOD HYDRANT HE HAD GOOD PRESSURE IT LOOKED LIKE HE WAS RIGHT ON THE CORNER OF BARCLAY AND WEST AS WE WALKED UP WEST
STREET WE COULD SEE LOT OF CARS BURNING LOT OF SMOKE OTHER THAN THE SMOKE FROM THE COLLAPSE THERE WERE CARS BURNING ALL OVER VESEY UP AROUND THE PARK COUPLE OF RIGS DUMPSTER RIGHT ON THE CORNER OF
VESEY AND WEST BURNING
OF COURSE WORLD TRADE CENTER WAS RIGHT ON THE CORNER OF WEST AND VESEY BURNING STILL THERE WAS
LOT OF SMOKE WASNT SURE IT WAS TOTAL COLLAPSE
OF BOTH BUILDINGS LATER ON IN THE DAY
DIDNT REALIZE THAT UNTIL MUCH
TOLD THE OFFICER WEVE GOT AN ENGINE HERE WITH GOOD LINES IF YOU WANT TO GET LINE AND TRY TO
GET SOMETHING IN OPERATION HE SAID FINE LETS GO UP TO VESEY GO LITTLE CLOSER AND TRY TO GET AN
ASSESSMENT OF WHATS GOING ON LIKE SAID THERE WAS HUGE DUMPSTER ON THAT CORNER GOING RIGHT NEXT TO THE
ATT BUILDING
SO HE SAID ALL RIGHT GO BACK WITH COUPLE
OF GUYS WE SEARCHED AND GRABBED ONE OF THE TWO AND
11

PALMIERI
HALF INCH LINES THAT WERE LAYING IN THE STREET AND WE STARTED TO OPERATE IT INTO THE DUMPSTER AT AROUND THAT TIME WE WERE THERE FOR LITTLE WHILE HE WENT OFF JUST LITTLE BIT TO SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON TRYING TO FIND GUYS FIND OUT WHAT WE SHOULD DO
VESEY STREET DONT REMEMBER IF IT WAS TOTALLY BLOCKED AT THE TIME BUT THERE WAS DEFINITELY
DEFINITELY STUFF ACROSS VESEY STREET THAT YOU COULD
SEE YOU COULDNT GET TOTALLY DOWN VESEY MAYBE ALL THE WAY TO WEST BROADWAY YOU COULD SEE THE DAMAGE AT
WORLD TRADE CENTER THE DAMAGE INTO THE ATT BUILDING YOU COULD SEE THE DAMAGE WORLD TRADE
CENTER WAS BURNING THERE WAS AN AERIAL LADDER UP AT WORLD TRADE CENTER SAW GUYS OPERATING UP INTO WORLD TRADE CENTER TRYING TO DO SOME SORT OF SEARCH IM SORRY LET ME CORRECT MYSELF WORLD TRADE CENTER RIGHT ON THE CORNER OF WEST AND VESEY
THERE WAS AN AERIAL LADDER PARKED ON WEST STREET OPERATING TO THE CONCOURSE TYPE AREA ON THE
WORLD TRADE CENTER LOOKING FOR GUYS AND THEY WERE TRYING TO DO SEARCH AT THIS TIME THE TRUCK WAS INTACT WORLD TRADE CENTER WAS ALMOST FULLY INVOLVED IN FIRE WE OPERATED THE LINE INTO THE DUMPSTER WE STAYED THERE FOR LITTLE WHILE AND THEN SAW ONE OF
12

PALMIERI
THE FIRST MEMBERS OF MY COMPANY TO COME IN AND IT WAS ACTUALLY CAPTAIN SAKOWICH HE HAD WALKED UP WEST STREET HE SAW ME DURING THE TIME THAT WENT BACK TO THE ENGINE TO GET THE LINE WAS ABLE TO GET MASK OFF THE ENGINE CAPTAIN SAKOWICH CAME UP TO ME ASKED ME IF SEEN THE GUYS OR WHATEVER
SAID CAPTAIN DO YOU KNOW WHERE ENGINE
WOULD BE WAS TRYING TO OPERATE WITH THESE GUYS
THE WALKWAY ON WEST STREET FOR THE NORTH TOWER WAS DOWN SO THERE WAS NO WAY TO WALK STRAIGHT INTO WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE OLD LOBBY OF THE NORTH TOWER WHERE
ENGINE WOULD HAVE BEEN SO HE SAID IM GOING TO TRY TO FIND WAY AROUND STAY HERE HE SAID GIVE ME YOUR
MASK FOR NOW STAYED WITH THE COMPANY
THEN FOUND ANOTHER MEMBER FROM MY COMPANY
DONT KNOW 20 HALF AN HOUR LATER
FIREFIGHTER JEFF STRAUB HOOKED UP WITH ME TOLD HIM
SAKOWICH WAS AROUND HE WAS TRYING TO FIND WAY OVER TO WHERE THE GUYS WERE HE SAID LETS NOT WAIT HERE LETS TRY TO FIND SAKOWICH OR LETS TRY TO FIND OUR OWN WAY IN
WE PROCEEDED TO WALK DOWN VESEY STREET WEST STREET WAS TOTALLY BLOCKED WE COULDNT GET ACROSS
WE GOT TO THE CORNER OF WEST AND VESEY CHIEF NIGRO
MAYBE
13

PALMIERI
WAS THERE AND SAW CHIEF PFEIFER AND COUPLE OF OTHER GUYS FROM THE BATTALION DONT KNOW IF THEY
RESPONDED IN OR THEY WERE THERE PRIOR TO THE COLLAPSE
BASICALLY NIGRO LOT OF THE OFFICERS WERE TRYING TO GET INFORMATION FROM CHIEF NIGRO AS FAR AS TO
WHAT TYPE OF OPERATIONS HE WANTED THEM TO COMMENCE
CHIEF PFEIFER WAS JUST SAYING
DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED LETS JUST GET EVERYBODY DOWN VESEY TOWARDS THE WATER AWAY FROM THE SCENE
MYSELF AND FIREFIGHTERS STRAUB HAD JUST BROKE OFF FROM THEM AND WE WALKED AROUND THROUGH THE WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER AREA WHICH WOULD BE THROUGH THE LOBBY OF
WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING OUT INTO WHERE THE WINTER GARDEN IS BUT ON THE
OUTSIDE NOT ACTUALLY INTO THE WINTER GARDEN YOU COULD SEE THE WINTER GARDEN HAD TOOK LOT OF DAMAGE ALSO
WHILE WE WERE ON THE OUTSIDE NEAR THE MARINA WALKING NEAR THE MARINA BECAUSE WE WERE GOING TO TRY
TO COME AROUND UP LIBERTY TO SEE IF WE COULD GAIN ACCESS FROM WEST STREET THERE WE ENCOUNTERED ANOTHER GROUP OF FIREMEN THAT WERE CARRYING FIREMAN ON STOKES BASKET DONT KNOW WHAT COMPANY THEY WERE
14

PALMIERI
FROM BUT DO HAVE PICTURES OF THAT PHOTOGRAPHER
TOOK PICTURES OF US DOING THE CARRY SO COULD GIVE YOU HIS NAME IF YOU NEED IT IN PINCH PROBABLY THE
ROAD
THERE WAS ONLY MAYBE FOUR OR FIVE FIREMEN
HELPING TO CARRY THIS GUY SO WE HELPED TO CARRY HIM THEY NEEDED HELP WE CARRIED HIM TO BOAT THAT WAS
WAITING IT WAS MARINE COMPANY BOAT DONT KNOW WHAT MARINE COMPANY THEY GOT HIM ON THE BOAT
BELIEVE THEY WERE TAKING HIM TO JERSEY HOSPITAL
THEY REALLY DIDNT SAY THEY GOT HIM ON THE BOAT ME AND JEFF STAYED TOGETHER AND WE STARTED AGAIN TO COME AROUND LIBERTY STREET LIBERTY AND WEST IN THAT AREA THEN WE CAME ACROSS FOUND CAPTAIN MALLERY FROM 10
SAW CAPTAIN THINK YOU ALREADY SPOKE TO HIM
FROM 10 ENGINE ASKED HIM WHERE THEIR GUYS WERE IF
THEY KNOW HOW THEIR GUYS ARE DOING THEY BASICALLY DIDNT KNOW MUCH ABOUT WHERE THEIR GUYS WERE OR
ANYTHING OR WHERE MY COMPANY WAS
AGAIN WEST STREET WAS PRETTY WELL BLOCKED
THERE WASNT ANY GOOD ACCESS INTO THE AREA THEN THATS WHEN WE BASICALLY STARTED TO REALIZE IT WAS
TOTAL COLLAPSE SO WE TRIED TO MAKE OUR WAY INTO THIS PILE OR INTO THE AREA WHERE MY COMPANY WOULD HAVE
15

PALMIERI
BEEN WE WENT DOWN LIBERTY STREET WAS PRETTY WELL BLOCKED WE COULDNT GO DOWN THAT WE CONTINUED DOWN WEST THINK WE WENT UP CEDAR THEN TOOK WASHINGTON BACK TO ALBANY TO TRY TO GET TO WHERE 10 ENGINES QUARTERS WERE AND SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON OVER THERE AND SEE IF WE COULD COME IN KIND OF LIKE FROM THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OR SO
GOT OVER BY 10 ENGINES QUARTERS THERE WAS LOT OF DAMAGE TO THE QUARTERS THERE WAS LOT
OF DESTRUCTION IN THE STREET THERE THAT WASNT ANY OTHER EASIER ACCESS WE ENDED UP SOMEWHERE AROUND THIS AREA AGAIN MEETING UP WITH CAPTAIN SAKOWICH TRYING
TO GET BACK AROUND THROUGH THE WINTER GARDEN AREA OVER THERE SAKOWICH AND FIREFIGHTER STRAUB THEN AND MYSELF WE WALKED AROUND LOOKING FOR GUYS AND BASICALLY THE DAY JUST DRAGGED ON WE WOULD GET SEPARATED
WOULD RUN TO NUMEROUS DIFFERENT GUYS THAT KNOW
THROUGHOUT THE JOB AND TRYING TO FIND REPORTS OF WHO IS WHERE AND STUFF LIKE THAT
EVENTUALLY WE END UP FINDING THE EASIEST WAY BACK OUT ON TO THE PILE IS THROUGH THE WINTER GARDEN WHERE THE GLASS HAD TAKEN LOT OF DAMAGE BUT IT WAS STILL INTACT AT THIS POINT THEN WE GOT OUT ON TO THE PILE THERE AND STARTED DOING SOME SEARCHES OVER THERE
16

PALMIERI
AS THE DAY DRAGGED ON AGAIN GOT SEPARATED FROM JEFF AND CAPTAIN SAKOWICH KIND OF WAS
OPERATING ON MY OWN FOR WHILE WITH LOT OF OTHER GUYS DONT KNOW EVEN KNOW WHO THEY WERE JUST STARTED GETTING FATIGUED CAME OUT JUST TO TAKE
REST LITTLE BIT OUT INTO THIS AREA HERE AGAIN ON VESEY AND WEST AND RAN INTO FIREFIGHTER BOB EMANS ASKED BOB BOB WERE YOU HERE WHO WAS WORKING ET CETERA HE GAVE ME QUICK RUNDOWN OF WHO KNEW WAS ON THE RIG WHERE THE RIG WAS WHAT HE WAS DOING HE WAS AN EXTRA MAN HE JUMPED ON THE RIG THAT DAY AND HE WAS ASSISTING THE CHAUFFEUR
SO HE CAPPED UP THE HOOK UP AND SUPPLIED THE SIAMESE AND THEN THATS WHEN THE COLLAPSE OCCURRED
HAD ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA OF THE TIME OF THE DAY BOB
HAVE HAD BETTER IDEA AND BOB WAS LIKE LOOK
THINK THE BEST THING WE SHOULD DO RIGHT NOW IS GO BACK
TO ENGINE TRY TO REGROUP FIND OUT WHO IS WHERE
DEFINITELY WHO IS MISSING WHO MIGHT BE IN THE HOSPITAL
AND COME BACK AND GET BACK WE GOT TO GET SOMETHING TO DRINK WE NEED SOMETHING TO EAT IT WAS LONG DAY
WAS LIKE ALL RIGHT BOB START HEADING BACK IM GOING TO HEAD BACK IN LITTLE WHILE
STAYED LITTLE BIT LONGER DONT KNOW HOW MUCH
MIGHT
17

PALMIERI
LONGER IT COULD HAVE BEEN MAYBE AN HOUR OR SO
FIREFIGHTER AL SICIGNANO FROM MY COMPANY TOLD WHAT WAS GOING ON HOW LONG HAD BEEN THERE WHO
SAW AL
HAD
SEEN SO FAR AND THAT WAS PROBABLY JUST JEFF CAPTAIN SAKOWICH AND BOB EMANS BOB HAD SAID THAT JACK BUTLER
WAS ALSO OKAY HE WAS THE CHAUFFEUR THAT DAY FROM ENGINE THE REST OF THE COMPANY WE HAD NO REPORTS OF
WHERE THEY WERE WE KNEW THEY WERE IN THE BUILDING WE DIDNT KNOW WHERE
SO THEN TOLD AL SAW BOBBY HE SAID HE THINKS ITS GOOD IDEA WE GO BACK TO AND TRY TO REGROUP AND COME BACK IN LITTLE WHILE WITH BETTER PLAN OR SOMETHING AL WAS LIKE ALL RIGHT GO AHEAD YOU GO ON YOUR OWN WILL MEET YOU BACK THERE IN LITTLE BIT LEFT AND WENT BACK TO ENGINE
WHILE IM AT ENGINE GETTING PHONE CALLS FROM SOME OF THE WIVES SPECIFICALLY LIEUTENANT
INAUDIBLE WIFE GAVE HER WHATEVER INFORMATION WE COULD AND THATS WHEN WORLD TRADE COLLAPSED SO THAT
MIGHT GIVE YOU TIME FRAME OF HOW LONG WAS THERE STAYED AT ENGINE FOR WHILE DONT
REMEMBER WHO ELSE CAME BACK AND GROUPED UP WITH
COUPLE OF GUYS HANDFUL OF GUYS WE HEADED BACK OVER AFTER WE GOT SOMETHING TO DRINK LITTLE SOMETHING TO
18

PALMIERI
EAT HEADED BACK OVER SPENT THE REMAINDER OF THE NIGHT THERE UNTIL LATE INTO THE NIGHT RAN INTO BROTHER IN LAW OF ONE OF THE FIREFIGHTERS WHO WE KNEW WAS MISSING THAT DAY BILLY GREEN HIS BROTHER IN LAW IS CORRECTIONS OFFICER AT THE CORNER OF WEST AND LIBERTY WITH JEFF STRAUB HE WAS LOOKING FOR HIM
HAD NO IDEA WHERE HE WAS JUST TOLD HIM THAT AND TOLD HIM WOULD BE IN TOUCH WITH THE FAMILIES OR HIM AS SOON AS WE FOUND SOMEBODY AND JUST STAYED THERE LONG TIME THAT NIGHT
BASICALLY DIDNT SEE ANYONE FROM THE COMPANY THAT RESPONDED THAT DAY AT ALL THAT DAY DONT REMEMBER NOW ENDED UP GOING BACK TO ENGINE
SOMETIME LATE THAT NIGHT GOT BACK TO ENGINE MOST OF THE GUYS THAT HAD REPORTED IN FROM HOME WERE ALREADY BACK AT ENGINE WAS GLAD TO SEE BUTCHIE BARONE AND
BUNCH OF GUYS BECAUSE KNEW THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN THERE BEFORE ME EVEN THOUGH THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE
TOOK MARK IN THE JOURNAL DIDNT KNOW WHO WAS WHERE WAS GLAD TO SEE MOST OF THE GUYS
THATS WHEN STARTED TO FIND OUT EXACTLY WHO WAS MISSING FROM THE COMPANY AND THERE WERE REPORTS
THAT BILLY GREEN WAS OKAY HE WAS IN HOSPITAL BUT IT WASNT CONFIRMED YET THATS IT JUST VARIOUS
19

INFORMATION LIKE THAT
PALMIERI
WE JUST OPERATED AS COMPANY FOR THE NEXT ALMOST WEEK OR TWO ON OUR OWN GOING BACK AND FORTH
THE RIG WAS CRUSHED SO WE WERENT REALLY RESPONDING WE DIDNT HAVE RIG FOR WEEK OR SO SO THE COMPANY
BASICALLY JUST WOKE UP EVERY MORNING TEN OR 15 GUYS WOULD GET TOGETHER WALK OVER ONE OR TWO GUYS WOULD STAY AT THE HOUSE AND TRY TO KEEP THE HOUSE ORGANIZED WITH ONE OFFICER JUST TO HAVE SOME SORT OF IDEA WHO
WAS WHERE IN CASE ANYTHING ELSE HAPPENED EVERY ONCE IN WHILE THEY WOULD BE
RELOCATING COMPANY DONT REMEMBER IF THAT WAS LIKE
DAY MAYBE OR THATS BASICALLY HOW WE OPERATED UNTIL WE WENT TO AN ACTUAL AB CHART WHEN WE WENT TO
THE AB CHART REALLY DIDNT MAKE MUCH THE GUYS THAT
WERE ON DUTY GOT TO GO DEFINITELY EXCEPT ONE OF THE GUYS THAT WAS ON DUTY HAD TO STAY AT THE FIRE HOUSE
GUYS THAT WERE OFF DUTY GEARED UP AND WENT OVER IT
WAS ALMOST LIKE AS WE WERE DRAWING STRAWS OF WHO HAD TO
STAY BACK AND THAT WAS IT DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE OKAY VERY GOOD YOU MENTIONED THAT NORTH
WALK BRIDGE WAS COMPLETELY DOWN YES
YOU COULDNT CROSS WEST STREET BECAUSE THAT
20

PALMIERI
BRIDGE WAS DOWN BUT IT BECAME NECESSARY TO GO UP AND DOWN WEST STREET YOU HAD TO FIND WAY AROUND
RIGHT THATS WHAT WE WERE LOOKING FOR THERE WAS TOTAL COLLAPSE IN THAT AREA THERE WAS NO WAY IN NO WAY OVER OR AROUND YOU COULDNT EVEN PROBABLY BRING PORTABLE LADDERS TO GET TRUCK IN BECAUSE THERE WAS JUST TOO MUCH DEBRIS IN THE STREET THERE WAS LOT LOT OF RIGS PARKED ON WEST STREET BETWEEN VESEY AND MURRAY BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET
JUST RIGS ALL OVER THE PLACE
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN OKAY THANK YOU FOR THE INTERVIEW THE TIME IS NOW 1130 AM
THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW
21
File No. 9110259
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        LIEUTENANT SEAN O'MALLEY
   Interview Date:  December 6, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
S. O’MALLEY
          BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN:  December 6, 2001.
     The time is now 11:41 hours.  This is Battalion
     Chief John Malkin of the Safety Battalion of the
     New York City Fire Department.  I'm conducting an
     interview today with Lieutenant Sean O'Malley, of
     Engine Company 10.  We are in the quarters of
     Engine 4 at this time.  And the interview is
     regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Now I will let the Lieutenant begin his
interview.
     A.   On the morning of the 11th sometime around,
shortly after 9 o'clock, I was in my apartment on the
west side, at 72 Street.  Just turned on Channel 1 news
and they had a live video feed from, I think a traffic
camera someplace north of the Trade Center complex.  It
showed a heavy smoke condition issuing from tower one,
the north tower of the World Trade Center.  Details
were very sketchy at that point.  The person was trying
to get some information.  There were still vague
reports as to what caused the fire.
          While I was watching, shortly after, I saw a
second fire emanate from the -- the vantage point of
that particular camera, I couldn't tell if it was a
second fire in the north tower.  I actually assumed
2
S. O’MALLEY
that to be the case.  It never occurred to me that
there would be two fires in the two towers at the same
time.
          Because it was still rush hour in the
morning, the subways were all crowded, so I jumped on
my bicycle and I headed down the bike path along the
West Side Highway.  As I headed south, once you turn
the bike path at 56 Street, you could basically see the
Trade Center over the horizon.  At that point I saw
that there was in fact heavy smoke issuing from both
towers.
          I probably got down within 20 minutes or so.
Once I got south of Chelsea Piers heading towards
Chambers Street, near Stuyvesant High School, there was
a lot of civilians heading away from the towers.  No
one was running, no one was panicking, they were just
walking away from the towers.  I kind of was operating
under the assumption that there was some sort of
cataclysmic failure of one of the mechanical equipment
sections or an electrical problem of some sort.  I had
no idea what started the fire and what had transpired.
          Around the Chambers Street area, someplace a
little bit north of Chambers Street, the pedestrian
traffic on the bike path heading against me was so
3
S. O’MALLEY
heavy that I took the bike on to the West Side Highway
and by that point, the NYPD had shut down the street
for all vehicles except emergency vehicles and all of
the ninth and Tenth Battalion companies passed me by as
I was heading down; 22 Engine, 13 truck, 25 truck, 35
Engine, 40 truck, 35 truck and 40 Engine, 74 Engine, 76
Engine, 22 truck, the Tenth Battalion.
          They all came by me and pulled up on the west
side of West Street in a line, basically side by side.
There was none of the chaos that is depicted on the
cover of (inaudible) from 1993, the rigs and hose all
over the street.  The rigs were lined up, there was
access lanes for the apparatus to get in and out.
          I saw some of the guys that I worked with at
13 truck getting off the rig and donning their gear.  I
told them be careful.  I spoke to the Chief of the
Tenth Battalion and directed him to -- he had asked me
where the command post was.  I didn't actually see the
command post, but he gave me -- I think he told me that
he was looking for the corner of Liberty and West.  I
don't recall, but he told me the street corner he was
looking for and I directed him to that.
          In that time there was civilians in the
street, standing in front of the building.  The upper
4
S. O’MALLEY
part of the building was completely obscured in smoke.
You could see from about the 50th floor down.  As I
paused for two or three minutes that I was in front of
the building, you could see civilians jumping out of
the windows and landing on to the -- what the Port
Authority called VIP drive, which was the west side of
tower one.  It was a covered roadway and it was like a
circular driveway that went in to the front of tower
one.
          I could see -- I think Ladder 1's apparatus
was there.  There was a bunch of Engine companies in
front.  There was somebody hooked up to that hydrant
right in front of the building.  I don't remember
taking notice of which companies they were.  I made my
way, continued south on West Street.  I knew I wasn't
going to go down Liberty Street.  I went down to Albany
or Carlyle Street, and when I came around the back of
the fire house, there were crowds of civilians in the
street on Greenwich one block south of the fire house.
          There was a lot of civilians in front of the
building who had evacuated the building but not cleared
the area.  There were several hundred people in the
street.  As I went in the back door of the fire house I
met up with a Firefighter from, I think he's in 6
5
S. O’MALLEY
truck.  I think his name was Gary Matalatis, who was
coming in off duty.  He was dressed in uniform and
carrying his gear.
          There was body parts on the street around the
fire house.  From the time I left the apartment to
getting to the fire house, it was sort of just getting
a better picture of what was going on and it was like
walking down a spiral staircase getting darker and
darker and you could tell the magnitude of the
operation was more and more severe.
          I think by that time I probably heard that
there were planes that had hit the building and that
this was a terror attack.  Once I got into the fire
house, I met up with Captain Paul Mallery from Ladder
10 and there was an FDNY ambulance pulled into the
apparatus bay.  Both the front doors were open and
there was, I would say close to 15 or so civilians
being treated by EMS.  They had a triage set up.
          Some of them were standing, holding -- those
that were capable were standing or sitting, holding
bandages on themselves.  Two or three people were on
the floor being -- on a backboard.  Another was -- a
male civilian was in a sked, collapsible stretcher.  He
looked --- I think they were treating him for a broken
6
S. O’MALLEY
pelvis.  He had some pretty severe broken bones.  There
was the EMS paramedics and a civilian who apparently
had some first aid training who was assisting them.
          Captain Mallery told me that he had a
sister-in-law of one of the firefighters making phone
calls in the Engine office to recall the firefighters
from the Engine Company and a Lieutenant from
operations who they had alerted, name would be Keith
Ruby, who worked, I believe in Chief Nigro's office.
He had him making phone calls from Ladder 10's office
to recall the members of Ladder 10.
          There was several probationary firefighters
there from the proby school, who had told me that they
had cancelled classes and that they had come in.  I
directed them.  They were suited in their bunker gear
from head to toe.  Although they actually hadn't
started any operations, they looked like they were
getting overheated already.  I directed them to strip
down to their bunker pants, go into the kitchen in the
back of the fire house, cool down, take a couple of
glasses of water and wait for me to come back.
          I went upstairs to my locker.  I changed into
my work duty uniform, came back down, collected up
these three or four probies and made up a BF4 with
7
S. O’MALLEY
their names, explained to them how we were going to be
operating.  I put on my helmet.  I directed them to
each put on each of their helmets.  Take a look at me,
take a look at each other.  I said if we get masks, we
are going to be putting them on.  You are not going to
recognize one another.  We are going to stay together.
We are going to go over as a team, we are going to
operate as a team.  I gave them each a handful of
bandages and rubber gloves.  I directed one of them to
search the fire house for any hand tools he could come
up with.  That probably took 15 or 20 minutes or so.
          We were trying to get moving but I felt that
we should take the time to get set up.  I didn't think
there was any rush.  Figuring we were going to be
fighting this fire for a good long time.  Figuring we
were going to be setting up, climbing stairs, and
humping hose.
          In that time, I also crossed paths with
several other firefighters, actually a Lieutenant, that
were dressed in administrative uniforms, white shirt
and ties with their ID cards from headquarters.  I
later found out one of them to be named Jeff Guja,
Captain Jimmy Yakimovich, also from Chief Nigro's
office and as I said earlier, Keith Ruby, and another
8
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Firefighter, I believe he is from 55 Engine, who I have
seen him since.  I know he got out of the attack
alive.
          As we were headed out into the front --
          BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN:  I have to stop the
     tape.  They are going out on a run.  It's 11:52
     hours.  We will resume later.
          Okay.  It's now 12:23, we will resume the
     interview.
     A.   As I was saying, I collected up my team of
probies and was heading out the front door of the fire
house with them, when all of a sudden, civilians --
some of the civilians that were in the street came
running into the fire house.  One man was yelling it's
coming down.  I could hear behind him a roar like a jet
engine, so I turned around, started running towards the
back of the fire house.  I grabbed one of the patients
that was lying on the floor on a backboard under one
arm and just started running towards the back door.
          As I said, in addition to the civilians that
were being treated for first aid, several more
civilians came running through the fire house from
Liberty Street heading out towards the back of the fire
house and by the time we got to the rear of the fire
9
S. O’MALLEY
house, there is a hallway that is probably like 45
inches or so and that dead ends into the kitchen.  You
have to take a right-hand turn to go out the back
door.  By the time I got to that where you make the
right turn to go down the additional 10 or 15 feet to
the back door, there was a complete log jam of people.
All trying to get out that back door.
          Sometime right around then I also became
aware that Captain Kelty, and his brother, supervising
Fire Marshal Jim Kelty, were also in the fire house.
At least one of them was by the back door and the roar
that I heard was getting louder and louder.  I started
to feel a breeze against the back of my head.  I put
the civilian on the backboard.  I put him down in the
hallway that led out towards the back door and I was
standing directly next to the stairs that led to the
basement and I dove down the stairs into the basement.
I hid under a doorway arch.
          I was thinking it didn't make any sense
because the only building I ever remember falling down
-- a high rise that was burning, it was the one in
Philadelphia that burnt for days.  I remember thinking
it didn't make any sense, but I also remember thinking
there was no way that big building was going to come
10
S. O’MALLEY
down in that little fire house.  Just before the dust
cloud hit, I remember seeing the door to the high
pressure steam room directly to my left and I had
seconds to ponder if that was a place to hide, but we
really had no place else to go.
          Then it got black, there was a big gust of
wind that came down the stairs immediately followed by
that dust cloud that you have seen on videotape.  It
was like beach sand, it was so thick and heavy.
Although I could still hear debris falling outside, I
had to bail out of that position because the amount of
dust was so choking that I thought I was going to choke
down there.
          I came back up stairs and much to my pleasant
surprise the fire house was still there.  There were
several civilians wandering around the back of the fire
house trying to find their way back out.  The dust
cloud was so thick, you almost had to bump into someone
to even know that they were there.  I called out to
Captain Kelty and Captain Mallery, yelled to them.
They said that they were okay.  I yelled out to my crew
of probies.  They said that they were all right.
          We went into the kitchen and there were some
civilians in there.  I turned on the sink and some of
11
S. O’MALLEY
them would wash their face and took some quick
mouthfuls of water.  We started directing them out the
back door.  Captain Kelty started leading them out the
back door.  I ran upstairs and Captain Mallery was on
the second floor.  He said he had done a primary search
of the second floor and it was negative, there was
nobody up there.
          I went downstairs and ran to the Engine
office to see if I could find the civilian female that
was assisting us, calling guys from home.  She wasn't
in the office any more.  We did a primary search of the
ground floor of the fire house and directed the probies
with me to start doing a broadening search into the
street.  I think the pile of debris into the fire house
through the front doors was ten or 15 feet high.  The
ambulance was crushed in the bay.  The EMTs and all the
civilians were gone from the apparatus floor.
          The pile out in front of the fire house,
which began actually inside the front door, was so high
that I actually climbed out a window in the house watch
rather than try to make my way out the pile into the
street.
          One of the probies, I haven't been able to
contact him yet, I saw him later on in the day, I
12
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believe he survived both of them -- I know he survived
both of the collapses.  I believe he said his name is
Dino.  Dark skinned guy with a bald head.  Told me he
had heard someone, we have a man down.  When I went out
the window of the house watch, there was absolute
silence.
          I have since seen video tapes of the north
side up towards Chambers Street, with the pass alarm,
firemen stumbling around.  By Liberty Street and
Greenwich Street there wasn't a single sound.  There
wasn't a creature moving, there was no pass alarms,
there was no sirens, there was no yelling for help.
There was no one in the street.  It was absolutely dead
silence.
          We made our way directly across the street
from the fire house, the address is 130 Liberty
Street.  Prior to -- there had been like a public
space, like a second floor garden area that came from
the second floor mezzanine of 130 Liberty Street.  It
had a foot bridge that extended across Liberty Street
and went into the plaza of the World Trade Center
complex.  It went through like 4 World Trade Center.
It actually exited between number 2 and number 4, from
130 Liberty Street across the street and also in
13
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between building two and building 4.
          Underneath that there was a wide entranceway
with a fountain and a wide sweeping steps that led up
to the public space.  If it was a fire building we
would be looking at the corner of where exposure one
and exposure two came together, inside what had been a
cafe or like a coffee shop for the building employees.
I found Lieutenant Keith Ruby, who was lying on the
floor underneath what had been like a counter rail
where you could stand up and eat your coffee and
donuts.
          His head was facing towards the Trade
Center.  His feet were pointing away.  He was in a
great deal of pain, although he wasn't badly buried, it
was just light debris.  He was lucid and not -- from
the look of him, he didn't look that bad, but he was in
a great deal of pain and he pointed to the middle of
his right leg and said that he had a great deal of pain
there.  He felt that he had surely broke it.  He said
he heard it snap.
          So I suspected that to be a mid shaft femur
fracture.  I applied traction.  Just followed the
protocols for that sort of an injury, but I also knew
that was -- he was in pretty deep trouble, owing to
14
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where he was.  I sent this proby I mentioned earlier
back to the fire house and I told him to raid that
ambulance and to come back with oxygen and a backboard
if he could, and apparently he had some EMS training,
because he had the wherewithal to bring back a traction
splint, so we were able to properly traction splint and
package this Lieutenant as well as supply him with some
oxygen therapy right away.
          But still in all it took us a fair amount of
time to do that.  I had two or three other probies
working with me and I believe a police officer came
over to help as well.  Captain Mallery came out and
Captain Kelty -- he was yelling over to me.  I could
still hear him directing civilians away from the area.
          While we were doing that we heard small
explosions, rumblings, which sounded like additional
collapses.  When one of those would happen some of the
people that were helping us, would run for positions of
cover, but I was holding traction so I had to stay with
the patient and the probationary Firefighter Dino,
whatever his name was.  Maintaining traction on the
Lieutenant's head and supplying with the oxygen.  He
stayed his ground as well.
          That happened 3 or 4 times during the course
15
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of our trying to get them out of there.  Then we heard
jets overhead and we were concerned that there was
another plane coming in to attack us.  We just about
finished packaging him when we heard that same roaring
rumble that preceded the first collapse and the
probationary Firefighter at the Lieutenant's head
leaned down over him and covered him with his body over
the Lieutenant's head and chest and I leaned down from
the other end and covered the remainder of him as best
as I could with my body and we just crossed our fingers
and waited for the other collapse.
          Again the shock wave that came through and
the cloud of dust and some more lightweight debris had
fallen on us, but we were just very fortunate that we
happened to be inside the building itself, because the
two story balcony that had been a garden, the following
morning when I came out, which was extended from
exposure one towards Liberty Street from the front of
130 Liberty Street out toward the street, it was
probably 200 feet long and about 40 feet wide.  The
following morning when I went back, that had collapsed
down to within 5 or 6 feet of where we were.
          By the time we had finished packaging the
Lieutenant, we knew it was time to just get him out of
16
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there.  I had, as I said, this probationary fireman, I
think he said his name was Vinnie.  He was from Ladder
5, probationary firefighter Dino from the academy,
Firefighter Kerry Horgan from Ladder 10, Captain
Mallery, Captain Kelty from Ladder 10 and myself, we
started moving this Lieutenant south on Greenwich
Street towards Battery Park.  We could see flashing
lights and we thought there might be an ambulance down
there.
          We moved him about two blocks to the corner
of Carlyle and Greenwich Street when we discovered
-- we actually had to get almost close enough to touch
it to realize that the ambulance that we were moving
towards we could see the flashing lights, but the front
of it was crushed down.  So we then headed west on
Carlyle towards the West Side Highway and came upon an
EMT, a Fire Department EMT, who was walking north on
the West Side Highway towards the Trade Center.  She
was about in front of the Marriott Hotel, which is 85
West Street I believe.  She said she had an ambulance
parked down near the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel.
          By that time I think there was one or two
police officers that joined us to assist in carrying
him.  I peeled off from that carry operation, a police
17
S. O’MALLEY
officer asked me to assist him in searching some parked
cars that were along Albany Street between Greenwich,
Washington and West Street, so they continued to carry
this Lieutenant down to the ambulance and I went to see
if there was anyone in those parked vehicles.
          Shortly after that, when I finished that
operation, we checked three or four cars.  I headed
north on West Street and I found an apparatus.  I don't
remember.  I think -- it was a Brooklyn company, it may
have been 205.  I'm not really sure.  I went to the
back of their apparatus and I pulled three or four
lengths of inch and 3 quarter.  Grabbed a reducer and a
hydrant wrench out of the compartment and I dragged it
up to Albany Street and tried to get a hydrant on the
exposure four side of 90 West Street.
          At that point from Albany Street two blocks
north to -- which would begin the Trade Center complex,
it was littered with burning ambulances and vehicles.
I checked three or four different hydrants along the
way trying to get one that was supplying water.  I was
unsuccessful in that.
          At that point firefighters operating on the
west side of West Street yelled to me that the
scaffolding surrounding 90 West Street was shaking.  So
18
S. O’MALLEY
I dropped the line where I was and ran across to the
other side of the street.
          There was a Chief setting up a staging area
around that corner on West Street and Cedar Street or
West and Albany, around that corner there.  He was
trying to put together some fire teams and dispatch
them off.  By that time I had seen the two probationary
firefighters that I had been working with who teamed up
with another Lieutenant and operating with that Chief.
          I left that spot and walked north along the
river promenade, which goes along behind Battery Park
City.  Walked up to the North Cove Marina.  I hooked up
with Lieutenant Tom White from -- I believe he is from
93 Engine, but I don't know if he is in the marine unit
now or he had been at one time, but he said that he had
radio contact with an old fire boat, and I remember it
was the Harvey.  I recall having seen the Harvey on
earlier weeks on West Street doing water displays for
cruise ships.  So I mentioned to him, I believe their
fire pumps are still working and he coordinated that
with them, but they said they had no fire equipment on
board.
          So I left him on the promenade at the North
Cove marina area to coordinate, I believe there was one
19
S. O’MALLEY
of the operating fire boats tied up alongside there as
well.  Again, between the smoke and the dust it was
kind of hard to see what was more than ten feet away
from you.
          I headed down Liberty Street and Deputy Chief
Blaich, Charles Blaich, he was standing in a circle of
clear area that couldn't have been more than five
square feet around him and he had set up a command post
there and was tasking groups of firefighters from
there.  I got his attention.  I told him I was going to
try to stretch lines from the fire boat on the
promenade near the North Cove marina.  He said take as
many guys as you need and you're on your own.
          I found two Queens companies.  319 and I
believe 325.  I explained to their officers what the
situation was at the fire boat and they proceeded to
have their companies assist me in uncovering the
apparatus beds, two different apparatus, which took a
fair amount of time, owing to the amount of debris that
was on top of them.
          They were parked right on Liberty Street just
opposite number 1 World Financial Center, which is on
the west side of West Side Highway on Liberty Street,
just before the foot bridge, which is still standing.
20
S. O’MALLEY
I believe Rescue 1's rig is also there.  They were all
completely buried in all kinds of debris.
          But these two companies helped me clear the
hose beds and we stretched every piece of 3 and a half
inch hose we could get our hands on and managed to
stretch a supply line from the North Cove marina from
the fire boat Harvey all the way down along the
promenade, up through Liberty Street, and we set it up
with whatever, gaited inlets and a manifold, whatever
we could get our hands on, and we started supplying
tower ladders and lines from that corner on Liberty
Street.
          Shortly after that, they discovered a fire
burning in the corner building at Gateway Plaza, which
I believe is -- I'm going to say 325 South End Avenue,
but I'm kind of making a guess at that address.  It's
the first apartment building as the crow flies that's
closest to the corner of the World Trade Center complex
on the west side of the West Side Highway.
          There was a fire on about the 8th or 9th
floor and the company was stretching -- they had to
actually stretch up from the exterior and the two
companies I mentioned earlier, 319 and 325 assisted me
with that, assisted those companies with stretching
21
S. O’MALLEY
those lines up to the exterior of the building.  Then
we went back and again with Lieutenant White, we set up
another line coming off the fire boat Harvey and
continued stretching 3 and a half inch hose from
wherever we could get our hands on it and connecting it
up.  So we ended up getting at least two lines off of
the Harvey and stretching it up to West Street.
          That was pretty well into the afternoon,
probably 2 or 3:00 in the afternoon by that point.  I
finally managed to find a spot someplace along the west
side promenade there where I was able to get my
cellphone working and called home and then just -- I
told the guys that I had a cell phone that worked and a
line of firemen -- none of the phones were obviously
working.  Ten or 15, 20 guys managed to get their home
phones -- phone home from there.
          By that time I was having a lot of trouble
seeing where I was going with the dust and debris and I
had already had my eyes washed out twice by EMS.  I
operated on that corner in the North Cove marina with
Lieutenant Csorny from Ladder 10, who was on light
duty.  He had come in from headquarters.  We were
assisting loading some injured members down into the
NYPD and Nassau County police boats from the North Cove
22
S. O’MALLEY
marina.  They were walking them down west along Liberty
Street down into the marina and dispatching them over
to New Jersey, I believe.
          I guess around 4:30 or so when it started
getting a little dark, myself, Lieutenant Csorny,
Firefighter Horgan and a couple of other firefighters
from Engine 10 and Ladder 10, I believe John Morabito
and Firefighter Jimmy Calvanese, made our way back to
the fire house on Liberty Street.  We came in the back
window and started doing what we could to clean the
fire house out and make it operational.
          For the first couple of days it was being
used as a forward triage unit for EMS.  So that's what
our position was at that time.  We figured they were
going to use it as a command post or whatever to move
the debris out of the house watch area and shovel as
much of the things -- cleaned up as much as we could.
          I guess I left about 9:30, 10 o'clock that
night.  I was at the point where my eyes weren't
getting any better.  I had been to EMS to have them
washed out 2 or three different times.  It was at the
point where I actually couldn't see where I was going.
I had another Firefighter, Dan Peritore, who had been
the MPO of Engine 10 that morning, walked in front of
23
S. O’MALLEY
me and I made my way up as far as Battalion 1's
headquarters up on Duane Street.
          From there a tow truck had stopped at the
traffic light.  I climbed on the back of the tow
truck.  He got me up as far as the subways were
running, which I believe was 14 street or Canal
Street.  From there I took the subway home and came
back down the next morning and started all over again.
          BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN:  Okay.  I want to
     thank you for the interview.  The time is now 1245
     hours.  This concludes the interview.
24

FILE NO 9110260
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER DANIEL STERLING INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY MAUREEN MCCORMICK

HAPPENED
JUST TALK IN NORMAL VOICE AND TELL ME WHAT
WHERE DID YOU RESPOND FROM
STERLING
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN THE DATE IS DECEMBER 2001 THE TIME IS 1434 HOURS THIS IS
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN SAFETY BATTALION NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT
IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH FIREFIGHTER
6TH GRADE DANIEL
THE EVENTS THAT OCCURRED ON SEPTEMBER 11 THERE IS NO ONE ELSE PRESENT IN THE ROOM AND THE INTERVIEW IS FOLLOWING RIGHT NOW
STERLING ENGINE 24 REGARDING
WE RESPONDED FROM QUARTERS WAS GETTING OFF DUTY AT NINE OCLOCK THAT TUESDAY MORNING THE
ALARM CAME IN AT 847 SO HAD BEEN RELIEVED WERE FIVE MAN ENGINE SO BECAUSE IT CAME IN AS
SECOND ALARM AND JUST GOT ON THE JOB IN FEBRUARY
ROLLED AS THE DOORMAN TO GET YOU KNOW EXPERIENCE SECOND ALARM FIRE WE DONT GET THAT
SO WE WERE RIDING DOWN WAS THE DOORMAN AND GOING SOUTH THE CONTROL AND THE NOZZLE COULD
THAT ACTUALLY HAD JTH
OF PEOPLE STANDING IN THE STREETS LOOKING DOWN TOWARD THE BUILDING BUT BASED ON MY POSITION COULDNT SEE
TH KT
ALREADY

STERLING
WHAT THEY SAW
WE PULLED UP TO THE TWIN TOWERS ON WEST
STREET AND INTO THE LOBBY OF THE NORTH TOWER WE GOT THERE ABOUT NINE OCLOCK BEFORE THE SECOND BUILDING GOT HIT WE DIDNT KNOW THE SECOND BUILDING GOT HIT AT
NINE CLOCK OR ANYTHING
WHEN WE MADE IT INTO THE LOBBY THERE WAS
DEBRIS FALLING FROM THE BUILDING GUYS WERE TRYING TO VENT THOSE BIG WINDOWS IN THE LOBBY SAW 33 ENGINE
IN THE LOBBY RECOGNIZED ONE GUY WHO DIDNT
WHO WOUND UP BEINQ MISSINQ BUT REMEMBER SEEINQ HIM
IN THE LOBBY HE SAID HEY HOW YOU DOING WERE HERE TO GO TO WORK AND WHATEVER WE WERE IN THE LOBBY
WAITING FOR THE ELEVATOR THEY SET UP THE COMMAND POST AND WE ARE TRYING TO FIND OUT IF WE WERE GOING TO BE ABLE TO TAKE THE ELEVATORS UP BECAUSE THEY SAID
THAT THERE WAS REPORTED FIRE ON THE 80TH FLOOR SO OF COURSE WE WERE GOING TO TRY TO GET TO THE
ELEVATORS
AFTER ABOUT MAYBE FOUR FIVE MINUTES STILL NO ELEVATOR THEYRE SAYING THE ELEVATORS WERENT
LADD 20 TH FFIC FR LADD 20 DECIDED TO START WALKING UP THE STAIRS HE LIKE RALLIED HIS GUYS SO WERE WALKING WERE GOING TO

STERLING
START WALKING EVERYBODY AT THAT POINT STARTED WALKING UP THE STAIRS
WE MY TEAM STARTED UP THE STAIRCASE AND WE WERE FOLLOWING LADDER 20 GUESS ALL THE OTHER
COMPANIES WERE FOLLOWING BEHIND US WE ENDED UP GOING UP SINGLE FILE CIVILIANS WERE COMING DOWN SINGLE
FILE THEY WERE TELLING US WHAT FLOORS THEY WERE
COMING FROM
LIEUTENANT HANSON WAS THE OFFICER SO HE WAS
FINDING OUT WHAT FLOORS THEY WERE ESCAPING FROM WHAT THE CONDITIONS WERE LIKE ON THEIR FLOORS AND BY THE TIME WE GOT TO THE 11TH FLOOR PEOPLE STARTED TO GET TIRED
WE GOT UP TO THE 15TH FLOOR AND WE WERE STARTED TAKING BREAKS THE 15TH FLOOR MIGHT BE OPEN AND THEN THE CONSECUTIVE ONES WOULD BE CLOSED UP UNTIL ABOUT THE 21ST FLOOR SO WE CAME OFF THE 15TH AND WE HEARD MAYDAYS ON THE RADIO FROM LADDER 10 LADDER 10 HAD TWO MEN DOWN WITH CHEST PAINS WE HEARD THAT ON THE RADIO
THEN WE WOULD KEEP GOING WHEN WE STOPPED ON
FL SURV TH FL
MACHINES ALREADY TO START TAKING OUT THE WATER SO WE
TH 15TH
THE VENDING MACHINES GUYS HAD BROKEN THE VENDING
FRUND

STERLING
WERE TAKING BOTTLES OF WATER TAKING BREAK AND THEN GOING BACK ON THE STAIRS WE KEPT DOING THAT EVERY FIVE OR SIX FLOORS WHEREVER THERE WAS AN OPEN DOOR
REALISTICALLY WHAT HAPPENED IS IT TOOK US ABOUT AN HOUR TO GET TO THE 37TH FLOOR AND THE GUYS AT THAT POINT WELL AT THE 27TH FLOOR MY LIEUTENANT DECIDED TO DROP TWO ROLL UPS BECAUSE WE WERE TAKING
THE FOUR ROLL UPS AND THE CONTROL BAG WE WERE TAKING
BEATING JUST GOING UP THE STAIRS GETTING TIRED SO WE DROPPED TWO ROLL UPS ON THE 27TH FLOOR AND WE LEFT ONE OF OUR MEMBERS ON THE 27TH FLOOR BECAUSE HE REALLY
HE DIDNT FEEL HE COULD MAKE IT ANY FURTHER UH HUH
SO WE CONTINUED UP WE GOT TO THE 37TH
FLOOR AND WE WERE ABOUT TO DROP THE OTHER TWO
ROLL UPS BECAUSE LIEUTENANT HANSON SAID HE GOT WORD THAT WE WERE JUST GOING TO BACK UP 33 ENGINE SO WE WERE GOING TO USE THEIR HOSE WE WERENT GOING TO TAKE ANY OF OUR OWN HOSE
AT THAT POINT WHEN WE WERE ON THE 37TH FLOOR THATS WHEN THE BUILDING SHOOK FROM THE OTHER TOWER
BUT DIDNT KN IT WAS TH TH TOWER THAT WAS GOING DOWN BATTALION CHIEF THE
BATTALION CHIEF FROM BATTALION 11 CAME FROM
HIGHER

STERLING
FLOOR HE CAME DOWN AND SAW US ON THE 37TH FLOOR AND
TOLD US THAT HE THOUGHT THERE WAS PARTIAL COLLAPSE OF THE 65TH FLOOR OF OUR BUILDING AND THAT WE SHOULD DROP
EVERYTHING AND LEAVE THE BUILDING
LIEUTENANT HANSON DIDNT HESITATE HE HAD US
DROP EVERYTHING AND WE STARTED TO LEAVE THE BUILDING WE WERE RIGHT BY STAIRCASE THE VENDING MACHINES WERE AROUND THE CORNER TO THE RIGHT OF STAIRCASE SO
LOT OF THE GUYS THAT WERE TAKING OUT WATER AND STUFF
ENDED UP HANGING OUT RIGHT IN THAT HALLWAY BY THE VENDINQ MACHINES WHICH ALSO HAD STAIRCASE TO QET OUT
OF THE BUILDING
SO WHEN THE CHIEF TOLD US TO LEAVE WE
IMMEDIATELY STARTED DOWN EXIT AND THINK HE RAN AROUND THE CORNER TO TELL THE OTHER GUYS THAT WERE HANGING OUT IN THE HALLWAY WITH THE VENDING MACHINES TO ALSO LEAVE BUT WHEN THE BUILDING SHOOK EVERYBODY INSTINCTIVELY RAN FOR THE STAIRCASE BECAUSE IT SHOOK FOR ABOUT 10 OR 15 SECONDS AND WE ALL LIKE RAN TO
THE CLOSEST STAIRWELL SO GUESS EVERYBODY THAT WAS IN THAT HALLWAY RAN FOR THE STAIRCASE CLOSE TO THE VENDING MACHIN AND KN FACT LADD WAS IN THAT HALLWAY THERE WERE AT LEAST 15 OTHER GUYS ASIDE FROM LADDER BECAUSE LADDER WAS IN QUARTERS WITH US SO

STERLING
KNOW ALL THE GUYS THAT WERE THERE AND IM MAKING JOKES WITH THEM THE LIEUTENANT WAS SITTING DOWN
ESU COPS WERE HANDING OUT THEIR OXYGEN BOTTLES FOR GUYS TO TAKE OXYGEN SO WE WERE
LIKE EVERYBODY WAS TRYING TO RELAX FOR MINUTE
DRINK THEIR WATER AND GET UP THEIR ENERGY TO KEEP GOING UP THE STAIRS BUT WHEN IT SHOOK WE WENT BACK DOWN STAIRCASE
WE HAD ANOTHER PROBIE WITH US ROB BYRNE
BYRNE WHEN THE CHIEF SAYS DROP EVERYTHING HE TOOK HIS FACE MASK AND HE TOOK HIS MASK OFF AND EVERYTHINQ
AND LEFT IT THERE AND WE STARTED GOING DOWN WE ALL KEPT OUR MASK
JUST DIDNT SEE GIVING UP MY MASK AT THAT POINT ITS NOT THAT HEAVY TO ME BUT HE WANTED
TO GO QUICK HE SAID WHENHE SAID DROP EVERYTHING IM DROPPING EVERYTHING
SO WE STARTED DOWN WHEN WE GOT TO AROUND MAYBE THE 10TH FLOOR THERE WAS LOT OF SMOKE AND
GUESS JUST DUST COMING UP THE STAIRWELL SO WE ALL STARTED MASKING UP AT THAT POINT BYRNE HAD THE HE US HIS
INTERVIEW
GO AHEAD AT 1507 HOURS WE RESUME THE

STERLING
WE WERE EXITING THE BUILDING AND BYRNE WAS USING HIS HOOD TO COVER HIS MOUTH AND HIS NOSE BECAUSE
OF THE SMOKE AND DUST THAT WAS COMING UP THE STAIRWELL WE STARTED USING OUR MASKS TO BREATHE THROUGH THE SMOKE AND DUST AROUND THE 10TH OR 11TH FLOOR
ON THE WAY OUT FROM THE 37TH FLOOR WE DID STOP AT THE 27TH FLOOR TO MEET RICH BILLY
HE LOOKED LIKE HE MIQHT REALLY NEED THE BREAK SO WE LEFT HIM THERE AND ON THE WAY BACK HE
HOOKED UP WITH US
SO THE ENTIRE ENGINE WAS MAKING ITS WAY OUT AND WHEN LIEUTENANT HANSON NOTICED THAT BYRNE WAS
HAVING TO USE HIS HOOD HE SENT BYRNE AHEAD HE TOLD HIM TO GO AHEAD AND RUN AS FAST AS HE COULD TO GET OUT OF THE BUILDING BECAUSE WE WERE MOVING DOWN IN SLOW ORDERLY FASHION LIKE MAKING SURE WE DIDNT REALLY
MAKE ANY ERRORS ON THE WAY OUT WE WERE GOING SLOWER THAN BYRNE COULD HAVE MADE IT ON HIS OWN WITHOUT THE MASK AH
AT THAT POINT WE GOT ALL THE WAY DOWN IN THE STAIRCASE TO THE 3RD FLOOR APPARENTLY THE ESU COPS

STERLING
HAD THEY PUT PIECE OF SHEETROCK BLOCKING OFF THE 3RD FLOOR BLOCKING OFF THE STAIRCASE GOING BELOW THE
3RD FLOOR SO WE EXITED THE STAIRCASE AT THE 3RD FLOOR
YEAH
WE RAN INTO TWO ESU OR PORT AUTHORITY COPS AND THEY WERE HELPING GUY IN SWIVEL CHAIR ABOUT
HE WAS AT LEAST 300 POUNDS HE HAD BROKEN LEGS AND THEY WERE TRYING TO PULL HIM THROUGH THE HALLWAY TO GET HIM TO THE STAIRCASE WHICH THEY SAID WAS GOOD THEY SAID THAT THEY WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR BLOCKINQ OFF THE STAIRCASE BECAUSE THERE WAS DEBRIS NOW IN THAT STAIRCASE WE COULDNT HAVE MADE IT OUT TO THE GROUND LEVEL THAT WAY
SO WE HELPED THEM WITH THE CIVILIAN WE TOOK HIM IN THE SWIVEL CHAIR DOWN THE STAIRCASE WE HAD NEW SWIVEL CHAIR IN THE LOBBY OF THE BUILDING BECAUSE WE BROKE THAT ONE ON THE WAY DOWN WE BROKE THAT
STAIR WE BROKE THAT CHAIR DRAGGING HIM DOWN THE STAIRS WE PUT HIM IN NEW SWIVEL CHAIR AND DRAGGED HIM OUT THE LOBBY AND WE LEFT THE NORTH TOWER ON THE
SID TH CAM UT TH SID THE TOWER AND WE WENT RIGHT ACROSS TO TRADE CENTER TO THE CUSTOMS BUILDING

STERLING
OKAY
WE COLLECTED OURSELVES UNDER THAT LITTLE
LIKE OVERHANG
OKAY
THERES AN OVERHANG THERE WE WAITED FOR SECOND CUT THE CIVILIAN OUT HIS PANTS TO MAKE IT
EASIER FOR HIM TO MOVE THEN WE ALL STARTED MOVING WEST EXCUSE ME EAST EAST UP TO THE CORNER OF THAT BUILDING WHERE WE COULD KIND OF MAKE IT OUT TO VESEY STREET
WENT AHEAD OF MY TEAM THERE WERE ABOUT FOUR PEOPLE HELPING THIS GUY WALK THROUGH DEBRIS AND EVERYTHING THAT HAD FALLEN GUESS IT GOT PUSHED OUT TO THE CUSTOMS BUILDING FROM THE FIRST TOWER THAT
FELL THERE WAS LOT OF DEBRIS
SO AS EVERYONE IS HELPING THE CIVILIAN
REALLY COULDNT HELP THE CIVILIAN BECAUSE THERE WERE ALREADY FOUR GUYS HELPING HIM MOVE WENT AHEAD
GOT AHEAD TO THE CORNER MADE THE CORNER AND WENT DOWN IN BETWEEN THESE TWO BUILDINGS THERE WERE TWO PORT AUTHORITY COPS STANDING AT THIS CORNER OF THE BUILDING
TH US CUST BUILDING
OKAY WERE TALKING ABOUT GOING BETWEEN THE
TWO BUILDINGS THAT WOULD BE WORLD TRADE CENTER
10

NORTH
STERLING
US CUSTOMS BUILDING WORLD TRADE CENTER HE WAS GOING NORTH BETWEEN THOSE TWO BUILDINGS
FIVE
WAS THAT BETWEEN AND RATHER
GOING
GOT THERE TO THAT CORNER THERE WERE TWO COPS LIKE DIRECTING TRAFFIC AND WHEN GOT TO THAT POINT WITH THEM THEY SAID ALL RIGHT YOU GO AHEAD
AND RUN DIAGONALLY STRAIGHT OVER THIS WAY THERE WERE SOME STAIRS TO GET OUT TO GET OFF OF THE COURTYARD LEVEL
OKAY
BECAUSE THIS WHOLE AREA IS ON LIKE AN
ELEVATED COURTYARD YOURE ABOVE THE STREET SO STOOD THERE AND MY TEAM STILL HADNT COME AROUND THE
CORNER OF THIS BUILDING OF THE US CUSTOMS BUILDING
SO DECIDED TO WAIT FOR THEM TO COME AROUND THE CORNER
BEFORE MADE MY RUN UH HUH
WHILE THIS TOWER FELL
RIGHT BECAUSE
WAS WAITING IT WAS MAYBE 30 SECONDS NEVER SAW THEM COME AROUND THE
EVERYTHING STARTED FALLING IT WENT
11

STERLING
PITCH BLACK IMMEDIATELY WAS STANDING THERE WITH THE TWO COPS WE WERE PRESSED AGAINST THE SIDE OF THE
BUILDING SO EVERYTHING THAT FELL KIND OF LIKE FELL IN FRONT OF US
SO AT THAT POINT MASKED UP AGAIN AND MY VIBER ALERT STARTED GOING OFF SO KNOW DIDNT HAVE THAT MUCH AIR BUT WHEN IT WENT PITCH BLACK WE ALL ASSUMED THAT THE BUILDING HAD LIKE FALLEN ON TOP OF US BECAUSE WE COULDNT SEE ANYTHING AT ALL WE ASSUMED WERE TRAPPED INSIDE LIKE BIG VOID
SO PUT MY MASK ON AND EVERYTHINQ AND STARTED CRAWLING ON THE FLOOR TOWARDS THE OTHER
BUILDING STARTED CRAWLING ON THE FLOOR TOWARDS WORLD TRADE CENTER
OKAY
NOTICED THAT THERE WAS FIRE ON THE GROUND
THE COURTYARD NOW HAD DENTS IN IT LIKE CRATERS FROM
WHERE THINGS HAD FALLEN THROUGH SO REGROUPED STOOD UP AND DECIDED TO START FEELING ALONG THE WALL AND
THATS WHEN STARTED BUMPING IN BUMPED INTO ONE GUY FROM MY TEAM RICH BILLY THE SAME GUY WHO WE LEFT
TH 27TH FL
SAW HIM HE DIDNT KNOW WHERE THE
LIEUTENANT WAS AND HE WAS HE WAS HE THOUGHT
12

STERLING
WAS LIEUTENANT THEN HE STARTED HE HAD RADIO THE DOOR POSITION DIDNT HAVE RADIO HE STARTED
GIVING MAYDAYS AND LOOKING FOR LIEUTENANT HANSON WE WERE ALSO WITH FOUR OTHER FOUR FIREMEN AND THEY HAD
CIVILIAN
WE TOOK OUR AREA OF REFUGE IN BUILDING WE MADE IT INTO WINDOW INTO THE LOBBY OF THAT BUILDING WHEN EVERYTHING WAS STILL PITCH BLACK BEFORE THE SMOKE HAD COMPLETELY RISEN WE WENT IN THE BUILDING AND YOU COULD NOTICE LIKE BIG CHUNKS STICKING THROUGH THE CEILINQ OF THAT BUILDINQ SO WE WERE JUST WAITINQ AROUND WERE GOING TO HAVE TO GUESS START DIGGING OUR WAY OUT OR WAIT LITTLE WHILE AND SEE IF ANYTHING ELSE IS GOING TO FALL THEN
STARTED TO LIFT AND THE DUST
HOW LONG
THAT TOOK ABOUT
THAN TEN MINUTES OKAY
IT SEEMED LIKE NO LONGER
MAYBE ABOUT SEVEN TO TEN MINUTES IT STARTED
TO LIGHTEN UP AND YOU COULD SEE SHAFTS OF LIGHT
STARTING THR FR GU THIS DIR WASHINGTON STREET LIKE YOU COULD SEE LIGHT
SO AT THAT POINT WHEN IT LIGHTENED UP GOOD
GRADUALLY THE SMOKE AND EVERYTHING
13

STERLING
ENOUGH YOU COULD LOOK OVER TO THE EDGE OF THE COURTYARD AND SEE WHERE THE RAIL WAS THE RAIL HAD GOTTEN KNOCKED OFF BUT YOU COULD SEE THE TOP OF STREET LIGHTS
OKAY
THE CURVE OF THE STREET
LIGHT COMING UP OVER THE COURTYARD LEVEL SO TOLD RICH BILLY LETS
GO OVER TO THE EDGE THERE AND SEE IF WE CAN MAKE IT TO THE STREET OVER THERE BECAUSE AT LEAST YOU NOTICED YOU COULD SEE THE TOP OF THE STREET LIGHT THE STREET IS NOT THAT FAR BELOW
HE DIDNT REALLY WANT TO GO ACROSS THE COURTYARD AT THAT POINT HE TOLD ME HE FELT THAT
THAT IF OTHER THINGS STARTED DROPPING WE MIGHT BE
WE WOULD BE IN JEOPARDY BY GOING ACROSS HE HAS 20 YEARS ON THE JOB 18 HE HAS ABOUT 18 YEARS ON THE
JOB BUT WAS ALREADY LITTLE NERVOUS AND SEEING THE THINGS COMING THROUGH THE CEILING IM TELLING HIM WELL IF MORE THINGS FALL THEY MIGHT EVERYTHING MIGHT COME THROUGH THE CEILING SO OUR AREA OF REFUGE TO ME WASNT THAT GOOD ANYWAY IT WAS FINE WHILE WE
STANDING TH BUT IF THINGS FRLL TH GOING TO COME THROUGH THE CEILING ANYWAY
SO SAID ALL RIGHT WELL YOU STAY BUT
14

STERLING
WATCH ME YOU WATCH ME MAKE IT OVER IF MAKE IT OVER THERE AND DONT COME BACK KNOW THAT YOU CAN COME OFF THAT WAY BECAUSE IM GOING
YEAH BECAUSE
WENT AND THERE WAS ANOTHER FIREMAN THAT CAME WITH ME DONT KNOW HIS NAME OR WHAT COMPANY HE
WAS FROM BUT HE WAS MUCH BIGGER THAN ME TALLER GUY AND HEAVIER SO WHEN GOT OVER TO THE EDGE
REALIZED COULDNT JUMP OVER TO THE POLE IT WAS ABOUT MAYBE FIVE SIX FOOT JUMP OVER TO THE POLE AND THEN SLIDE DOWN JUST DROPPED THE MASK AND HUNG OFF THE SIDE AND DROPPED DOWN TO THE GROUND AND RAN STRAIGHT UP
MUST HAVE RUN LITTLE BIT THIS WAY THEN STARTED HEADING NORTH THERE WAS ALSO TWO COPS
GUESS IN FRONT OF WORLD TRADE CENTER OR AROUND THIS
TH
NORTH BECAUSE NEVER LOOKED BACK AT THE BUILDING TO
FIGURE OUT THAT BOTH TOWERS HAD COMPLETELY FALLEN
FIGURED MAYBE WOULD BE ABLE TO THE STREET LAMP DIDNT LOOK THAT FAR
JUMP ACROSS TO
FROM THE EDGE
SLIDE DOWN THE STREET LAMP AND MAYBE TO THE STREET OR WHATEVER BUT HE DIDNT DO IT
FIGURED MAYBE COULD JUMP ACROSS AND
JUST
15

STERLING
RIGHT
AS SOON AS DROPPED DOWN TO THE STREET
LEVEL NOTICED THERE WAS AN ENGINE THAT WAS ABANDONED AND THERE WAS COP CAR DIRECTLY BEHIND THE
AND WHOLE ROW OF CARS THAT WAS ON FIRE SO RAN PAST ALL THOSE CARS AND STARTED HEADING NORTH THAT WAS IT
GOT ABOUT FOUR FIVE BLOCKS BEFORE REALLY
STARTED LIMPING SPRAINED BOTH MY ANKLES JUST DROPPING OFF THE SIDE THERE BUT DIDNT CATCH UP WITH
RICH BILLY UNTIL MAYBE SEVEN OCLOCK THAT EVENINQ HE TOLD ME HE WAITED ABOUT FIVE TEN MINUTES AFTER LEFT AND THEN THE GUYS HE WAS WITH JUST KIND OF WALKED AROUND THE COURTYARD AND FOUND THE STAIRS AND TOOK THE STAIRS DOWN ACTUALLY THEY HAD PICTURE OF HIM ON CBS NEWS GUESS LIKE WHEN HE FINALLY MADE IT WALKED DOWN THE STAIRS BECAUSE HE WAS STILL COVERED IN ALL THE GRAY DUST AND HE JUST LOOKED BEAT GUESS THAT WAS RIGHT WHEN HE WALKED DOWN THE STAIRS THEY GOT PICTURE OF HIM AND LIKE TWO OTHER FIREMEN HE WAS WALKING WITH AND TOLD HIM SAW YOU ON THE
WAS LIK FRUND TH STAIRS TH STAIRS DOWN
UH HUH
ENGINE
16

STERLING
DIDNT REALLY COULDNT WAIT FOR THE STAIRS COULDNT WAIT WAS TOO IMPATIENT WAS ALREADY HAD ALREADY THOUGHT WE WERE DEAD LIKE WHEN EVERYTHING WENT PITCH BLACK FROM EVERYTHING BEING
BRIGHT YOU GOT OUTSIDE TO THE BRIGHT DAYLIGHT AND THE COPS ARE TELLING YOU TO MAKE RUN THIS WAY IT WAS
BRIGHT THEN ALL OF SUDDEN IT WAS PITCH BLACK FIRE WAS ON THE GROUND CRATERS SO THAT WAS IT
BUT WHEN MADE IT OUT WENT UP
UP ON WEST STREET AND THE AMBULANCE TOOK ME TO ST VINCENTS QOT MY ANKLES WRAPPED BEFORE QOT
THERE WAS ABLE TO CALL MY PARENTS CALLED MY
GRANDMOTHER SPOKE TO MY GRANDFATHER AT ABOUT 1030 BECAUSE THERE WAS CIVILIAN WHO LET ME USE THE PHONE WHEN WAS WALKING UP THEN GOT TO ST VINCENTS CALLED THE FIREHOUSE AND WAS BACK AT THE FIREHOUSE BY ABOUT ONE OCLOCK AND THE CHAUFFEUR WAS HERE THE CHAUFFEUR THAT DROVE US DOWN THERE WAS AT THE FIREHOUSE OTTO THEN WE WE KIND OF REGROUPED AND WENT BACK TO WEST STREET TO LOOK FOR THE OTHER GUYS
WE FOUND MARCEL CLAES HE WAS OUR CONTROL MAN START WALKING WITH US FR TH 37TH
FLOOR AND WE WALKED WE WERE ALL TOGETHER AND WE COME TO FIND OUT HE TOLD US HE STOPPED AND WENT BACK
17
ENDED

STERLING
TO GET THE CONTROL BAG AFTER WE DROPPED EVERYTHING AND WE STARTED DOWN HE WENT BACK TO GET THE CONTROL
BAG STARTED BACK DOWN THE SAME STAIRCASE HE SAID HE CUT ACROSS THE 7TH FLOOR AND MADE IT OUT THE
BUILDING BEFORE WE DID BUT EVERYBODY IN THE ENGINE MADE IT OUT
THEY DID
YEAH EVERYBODY THAT WAS IN THE ENGINE THAT DAY MADE IT OUT
WERE THEY SAFE DID ANYBODY PERISH FROM THE ENQINE THEY WERE ALL OKAY
YEAH EVERYBODY FROM THE ENGINE MADE IT OUT JUST FINE GOT HURT THE WORST SPRAIN IN MY ANKLES AFTER THE FACT BUT EVERYBODY IN THE TRUCK THAT WAS WITH US ON THE 37TH FLOOR NONE OF THEM MADE IT OUT AT ALL
NO KIDDING
NONE OF THE TRUCK MADE IT OUT WE HAD TWO OTHER GUYS THAT WERENT WORKING THAT DAY FROM THE TRUCK THAT WENT IN THEY NEVER MADE IT OUT
WERE YOU WITH THEM ON THE 37TH NO YES DID TH TH LIAV TH 37TH TH SAM TIME YOU DID
YEAH APPARENTLY THE CHIEF WENT AROUND THE
18

STERLING
CORNER AND TOLD EVERYBODY YEAH
TO START LEAVING THE BUILDING TOO BUT THINK THEY MUST HAVE GOT CAUGHT UP FOR SOME REASON
GOING DOWN THE STAIRCASE THAT THEY WERE GOING DOWN YEAH
THINK THEY WERE GOING DOWN EITHER THE OR WE WERE IN THE IF YOU WALKED STRAIGHT DOWN THE
HALLWAY THEY WERE CALLING THAT THE STAIRCASE AND THE HALLWAY CAME INTO LIKE THERE WAS THE VENDING
MACHINES IN THIS HALLWAY AND THERE WAS ANOTHER STAIRCASE IN THAT HALLWAY SO THEY WENT DOWN THAT ONE WE WENT DOWN THE SAME WAY WE WERE COMING UP
THE BECAUSE WHEN WE WENT AND GOT OUR DRINKS WE CAME RIGHT BACK BECAUSE WE WERE GOING TO START WALKING UP AGAIN WE WERE JUST TAKING THE STAIRCASE ALL THE WAY UP
YEAH BUT
WHEN YOU GUYS WERE WALKING DOWN THE STAIRS WHEN YOU HAD BEEN ORDERED TO WALK DOWN THE STAIRS NOW
HAD CLIMBING KNG TIM MAYB AN YES JUST ABOUT
NOW YOU TURN AROUND AND YOU START COMING
19

STERLING
DOWN WERE THERE LOT OF CIVILIANS STILL COMING DOWN THE STAIRS OR YOU WERE BOOKING IN THAT STAIRCASE
DOWN
THERE WAS NOBODY IN THE STAIRCASE ON THE WAY
NOBODY
NOBODY AT ALL GUESS THE ONLY REASON THAT THE COPS HAD THAT ONE CIVILIAN WAS BECAUSE HE WAS HURT
BECAUSE HE HE COULDNT WALK ON HIS OWN
RIGHT
THEY HAD HIM IN THE SWIVEL CHAIR
RIQHT
LOT OF PEOPLE WERE MAKING IT OUT OF THE
TOWER WHEN WE WERE GOING UP EVEN ON THE WAY UP WE RAN INTO ONE BUSINESSMAN WHO WAS COMING DOWN FROM THE 90TH FLOOR SO HE MADE IT ALL THE WAY DOWN FROM THE 90TH FLOOR HE SAID HE SAW FIREBALLS COME AT HIM AND THOUGHT HE WAS GOING TO DIE BUT THEN HE GOT TO GOOD STAIRCASE AND MADE IT DOWN HE WAS HELPING LADY WITH AN ASTHMA ATTACK AND AT THAT POINT WE PUT HIM IN AN OFFICE ON ABOUT THE 21ST FLOOR WE PUT HIM IN AN
OFFICE OFF TO THE SIDE OF THE STAIRCASE IM UT
FIGURING WE CAN PUT PEOPLE IN SAFE AREA OF REFUGE BELOW THE FIRE
20

STERLING
RIGHT
SO WE TOLD HIM TO JUST HANG OUT OVER THERE
BUT HE WAS JUST FINE SOMEBODY TOLD ME THEY SAW SOME BLOOD ON HIS SHIRT BUT HE WAS COHERENT AND
EVERYTHING HE TOLD US HE WAS COMING FROM 90 AND THERE WAS LOT OF FIRE ON 90 SO WERE THINKING MAN
WE GOT 10 FLOORS OF FIRE AND WE GOT ROLL UPS BUT WE STILL DIDNT KNOW THE JETLINER OR ANYTHING
WERE THINKING SMALL PLANE BECAUSE WHEN IT
CAME ACROSS THE TELEPRINTER IT WAS SMALL PLANE HIT THE BUILDINQ
UH HUH
AND WHEN WE ARRIVED YOU COULD JUST SEE SMOKE AND FIRE COMING OUT BUT IT DIDNT LOOK LIKE WHEN YOU
SEE THE NEWS FOOTAGE OF THE SECOND BUILDING GETTING HIT IT WASNT BIG EXPLOSION LIKE THAT
YEAH
IT WAS JUST FIRE AND SMOKE THAT WAS IT
THATS IT MEAN THATS PRETTY MUCH THE MOST SCARY
EXPERIENCE IVE HAD
GET LITTLE NERVOUS EVERY NOW AND THEN AT
FIR BUT THATS GU IM BRAND NEW BUT THAT THE THOUGHT OF BEING STUCK IS NOT
GOOD
21

XMP BODYHTML
STERLING
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN THATS AN
INTERESTING STORY ALL RIGHT
WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THE INTERVIEW
TIME IS NOW 1521 HOURS
THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW
THE
22
File No. 9110261
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
     FIREFIGHTER EUGENE KELTY, JR.
 Interview Date:  December 6, 2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
Kelty, Jr.
2
          BATALLION CHIEF MALKIN:  Today is
     December 6, 2001.  The time is now 10:44.
     This is Battalion Chief John Malkin of the
     Safety Battalion of the New York City Fire
     Department.  I am conducting an interview
     with Captain Eugene Kelty, Engine Company 10.
     We are at the quarters of Engine Company 4,
     regarding the events of September 11, 2001,
     at the World Trade Center.
          There is nobody else present in the
     room at this time, except the Captain and
     myself, and now the interview begins.
     A.   Okay.  My name is Captain Gene Kelty.  I'm
the Company Commander for Engine Company 10, which
is located at 124 Liberty Street, which is the
firehouse right opposite the World Trade Center.  I
was off that day.  My partner, Lieutenant Gregg
Atlas, who was working and is still missing in
action, was working that day.
     We were on the golf course at a company outing
that we have in our neighborhood when we got a
report on the pager that the fire -- the towers had
been hit.  Knowing that that was my company, I
                                                 3
responded in with my brother, who is a supervising
Fire Marshal, James Kelty from Manhattan base, we
got in Manhattan somewhere around, I would say,
around 9:35, a quarter to ten.  We went up to my
quarters, because we were changing into our work
clothes so we could go and start our assistance on
what was going on within the building or outside the
building.
     When we got into the building, there was a lot
of civilians in my kitchen, which is on the backside
of Cedar Street, between Greenwich and Church, and
they had been quartered with us when the plane hit
the buildings, and all the debris and stuff was
coming down.  Captain Mallery was in the building at
the time, and Lieutenant O'Malley, my Lieutenant
from Engine 10, was in the building.  Captain
Mallery is the Captain from Ladder 10.  Captain
Mallery was in my office with my brother and we were
evaluating what was going on and he was giving us a
briefing regarding the first plane that hit the
tower, and then the second plane.
     At that time, which was probably somewhere
around a quarter to ten, the second tower, World
Trade 2, came down.  Unbeknownst to us, we were
Kelty, Jr.
                                                 4
upstairs, we heard the building shake, a lot of
debris came down, and the building was hit with a
dust cloud.
     The apparatus doors were open, because I went
out on the second floor by my office, and it was
pitch black from the air conditioner that was
blowing in the bunkroom of the second floor.  I
looked out the window.  It was pitch black.  All the
dust that was coming down Greenwich Street headed
southbound.  We went down the stairs to see how
everybody was doing downstairs.  There was people
all over the place.  People with broken ankles,
broken legs, femurs.
     We went into the kitchen and we started
evacuating the house, because we didn't know exactly
what happened, other than the building came down and
collapsed.  It was later determined that it was
building World Trade 2, which is the south building
that came down.  We started evacuating everybody.  I
had not gotten out to the street yet.  We just made
sure that we could get people out the back door,
that's the Greenwich Street side, and we were having
everybody go down up to Trinity Place and go south.
We were heading them towards the Statue of Liberty
Kelty, Jr.
                                                 5
way, Battery Park.  Captain Mallery, myself,
Lieutenant O'Malley were in the building doing the
evacuation.
     At the time, I think, the Captain or the
Lieutenant went across the street.  There was a
Lieutenant that was injured at 130 Liberty Street,
which is the Deutsch Bank, and they were assisting a
first-aid case over there.  In the meantime, I
continued the evacuation.
     Most of the equipment in the building was gone.
All that was left was my turnout coat and I grabbed
the truck helmet.  I had an understanding that the
building was taken over by civilians and everybody
else and all our equipment was taken out of the
building and had been ravaged by civilians and
anybody else that needed equipment that day.
     While we were evacuating people, there was an
ambulance in the engine bay, that was stuck in the
engine bay because of the debris that came down from
World Trade 2 and there was no way of going out the
front door, other than climbing over piles of debris
that was there.  After the tower came down, we made
the determination that we weren't sure if any other
building would come down, so we evacuated the whole
Kelty, Jr.
                                                 6
building.  I went through and did a search and there
was two EMS people that were still left in the
building.  Again, Captain Mallery and Lieutenant
O'Malley were across the street at 130 Liberty
Street.  I went into the kitchen to make sure there
was nobody there when I heard the rumble of Tower 1
coming down.  I don't know the time that it
happened.  I just heard the same rumble I heard when
Tower 2 came down, the same thing, and I took cover
in our kitchen.
     The only people left in the building were the
two EMS people and after the tower collapsed and we
got more debris thrown in our kitchen, I opened the
door to go out to the apparatus to find out if they
were okay and they were right behind the door.  We
pulled them in the kitchen and the two EMS people
were hurt, but they were conscious and stuff, and we
evacuated them out.  I evacuated them out of the
back of the building and they went down the street
towards the south.
     After that I checked with Lieutenant O'Malley
and Captain Mallery to make sure that they were okay
and that they were still alive, because I didn't
know what happened when the second tower came down,
Kelty, Jr.
                                                 7
which is World Trade Center 1.  They were across the
street.  I was calling to them.  I managed to get a
hold of them.  We went over there and there was a --
at the time, too, when we were evacuating the
building Ladder 124 was there.  They assisted with
moving people up the block and down to the south.
They helped work with EMS.  When we went over later
on, after the second tower, I went over again to see
if our Captain was okay.  They had stabilized the
Lieutenant.  I think he broke his leg and his
shoulder, and dislocated his shoulder.  Lieutenant
O'Malley had packaged him up -- Captain Mallery, and
we started on our way and we started going down
Greenwich Street south to Albany; to Rector Street,
we made a right on Rector Street to head over to the
west side, away from any more possible collapses
until we figured West Street would be open.
     We took them over to -- I think there was two
other firefighters with us.  I don't know what
company they were.  We stopped on the way on Carlyle
Street, between Greenwich and Washington, to take a
break and make sure that the Lieutenant was okay.
Captain Mallery I think remained and I think he was
doing a search at 130 Liberty.  We managed to get
Kelty, Jr.
                                                 8
down to West Street and Carlyle and we ran into an
EMS person and we passed off the Lieutenant to him,
and they backed him out on some type of vehicle.  I
think it was a flatbed truck.  And then Lieutenant
O'Malley and I started to search some of the
buildings.  We went into the Marriott Hotel, which
was, I think, 85 or 90 -- 85 West Street.
     There was a security person in there and we
talked to him.  He said that the whole place was
evacuated.  We told him we wanted him out of the
place, and made sure that everybody was accounted
for.  After that Lieutenant O'Malley and I went down
to West Street.  We started walking around on West
Street seeing if we could see any surface victims to
rescue and stuff.  The whole area was covered with
gray ash from the debris that came down, and then we
ended up splitting up.  I was trying to head over to
the north side, which was Vesey and West, to see
what was happening over there.  There was no access
on West Street due to the World Trade Tower 1 coming
down, part of 3 was down on West Street and there
was no way up Liberty Street due to World Trade 2
that collapsed.
     I went through the back way, which was through
Kelty, Jr.
                                                 9
the World Finance Centers, cut through the building.
I ended up getting onto West Street.  I'm not sure
if I went through the towers or I went around the
back to the north cove and I came out on North End
Avenue.  At that time, there was people on the
Vesey/West Street side and I paired up -- down on
the corner of West and Vesey, there was a lot of
rigs that were buried under the debris.  I remember
the super satellite from Engine 9 was there, in
front of the 6 World Trade Center.  There were
people climbing all over the place trying to get
into there and there were some fires.  They looked
for surface victims and stuff.
     I ran into some of the people from the first
battalion.  There was Chief McKavanagh, and we
started trying to get water.  We wanted water lines
down there to start water.  I understand the boats
were in, so we managed to get rigs that were further
back towards Murray and Warren Street that were not
covered in debris.  I remember Ladder 115's rig was
in the middle of the street on West Street by Vesey,
heading southbound, and that was covered in debris.
I managed to get an Engine out and we backed it down
the street, down through Murray, up around the back
Kelty, Jr.
                                                10
on to North End Avenue and we brought it in on Vesey
Street and parked it midway.  We then had lines
running from the boats, which was at the waterfront
at the time.  We ran lines down to supply the
pumper, and then the pumper ran more lines down to
supply the satellite, which was located down at the
intersection of Liberty -- of Vesey and West.  And
we were trying to use that as a supply line to get
any hand lines or even to get the super pumper up or
the Vesey water satellite unit in service.
     We then had another break in the block on West
Street heading southbound that we were hooking into
to try to boost the pressure up to get water into
the satellite units so we could extinguish fires
that were going on right now in 6 World Trade, which
is the Federal building, the Customs building.  We
couldn't the get pressure up on it.  It would only
reach so much pressure and because it was 3-inch,
3-and-a-half-inch lines, we couldn't get enough
water down there to provide the pressure to use the
satellite gun.  And that's where we spent most of
the day, was just trying to attack the fires, put
whatever we put out in the area.
     There was units searching in 6 World Trade.
Kelty, Jr.
                                                11
One World Trade we couldn't get near, because the
bridge had collapsed on top of it.  The north end
bridge had collapsed on the street, blocking the
whole street, and we were just -- there were units
all over the place.  People were all over the place.
I didn't know who they were.  Because at the time we
had a problem with as far as determining who was
who, because equipment was being borrowed from all
firehouses.
     And 7 World Trade was burning up at the time.
We could see it.  There was concern.  I had gone up
to take a look at it, because I knew that the
telephone company building, which is 140 West
Street, was next to 7 World Trade Center, and there
was a concern that if 7 World Trade came down, what
would happen to this building?  We went in there, we
checked it out.  There were some people in there.
We made them evacuate and I went in the back to see
what was happening.
     The fire at 7 World Trade was working its way
from the front of the building northbound to the
back of the building.  There was no way there could
be water put on it, because there was no water in
the area.  I went back and I reminded whoever the
Kelty, Jr.
                                                12
chief was, I don't know if it was Chief McKavanagh
or Chief Blaich, that with 7 World Trade Center in
danger of collapsing, you had to be careful, because
Con Edison had big transformers in the back that
supplied the lower half of Manhattan.  So we had to
be concerned about electricity, that this may be
energized or not be energized.  We also reminded him
about the telephone company, about the equipment
that was in there.
     After a while, what happened, my eyes started
bothering me.  I ended up getting taken over to
St. Francis in Jersey by the water, had my eyes
washed out and when I was coming back somewhere
around I think it was 5:00 o'clock, 6:00 o'clock, 7
World Trade Center came down.  We were in the water
when it came down.  It might have been earlier.  It
might have been 4.  I don't know exactly when, but
we were on the river coming back from New Jersey
when the towers came down.
     They were utilizing the north cove as a
reference point for evacuation of all people over
for hospitals and stuff.  The Port Authority -- or
police launches were there.  They were bringing
people across.  They had a triage station set up
Kelty, Jr.
                                                13
over there to flush the eyes or to handle whatever
emergency was quick, and then they moved them over
and then transported them out over to New Jersey.
After pretty much the towers came down and there was
some sense of no more collapse happening, Engine
10's quarters started to get used as a triage
station and a general focal point.
     Throughout the whole time Engine 10's quarters
emergency generator was working we had some type of
lighting system and some type of electricity.
That's why they used it as a focal point.  The EMS
people were in there, they were triaging a lot of
people.  They were eye washing any emergencies, any
civilians, any firemen.  There was continued
searches throughout the area.  Again, the people I
don't know, because helmets were being used by
everybody, taken out of everybody's quarters.
Partial equipment was worn.  There were no face
masks down there at the time, we had no breather
masks.  We were using whatever was handy, and I
probably didn't get out of there until almost 1:30
in the morning, and which I stayed at the Fire
Marshal's base with my brother.  I finally touched
bases with him.  I stayed there and then we were
Kelty, Jr.
                                                14
back again at 9:00 o'clock in the morning.  That's
it.
     Q.   You mentioned Lieutenant O'Malley.  You
may have mentioned it before.  What unit is he in?
     A.   He's in Engine 10.
     Q.   Okay.  And Captain --
     A.   Mallery.  M-A-L-L-E-R-Y.  He's the Captain
at Ladder 10.
          BATALLION CHIEF MALKIN:  Okay.  Good
     interview.  I thank you for the interview.
     The time is now 10:58 hours and this is the
     conclusion of the interview.
Kelty, Jr.
File No. 9110262
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER WILLIAM HOREL
   Interview Date:  December 7, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
W. HOREL
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  Today's date is
     December 7, 2001.  The time is 9:55 hours in the
     morning.  This is Battalion Chief Ronald H. Kemly
     of the New York City Fire Department.
          I am conducting an interview with the
     following individual:  William Horel of Engine 64,
     Firefighter 6th Grade, of the New York City Fire
     Department.
          The interview is being conducted at the
     quarters of Engine 64 regarding the events of
     September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Firefighter Horel, would you tell me what
happened in the events of September 11?
     A.   Sure.  We were assigned first to respond to
35 engine for the staging area and met there with
several other engine companies, and we were told to
respond to the site, so we drove down to the site,
parked near Chambers and West.
          Myself, Mike Ferrara, Vinnie Massa, Dave
Moriarity and Lieutenant Steve O'Brien started to walk
down West Street.  We got to the corner of Vesey and
West when the north tower started to collapse.
          At that point, I turned north on West and
dove behind an ambulance.  When the dust cleared, we
2
W. HOREL
headed back towards looking for, you know, whatever we
could do.
          We weren't given any specific assignment
until much later in the day when we did the primary
search of the Verizon building from the 11th floor to
the 20th Floor.
          Don't really recall seeing any members of any
other units going into the building, because we didn't
get up right to where we could see the lobby or
anything.  We weren't that close before the collapse.
     Q.   Is that it?  Do you have any other
recollection?
A. Nothing.
     Q.   Okay.  I'll ask you a few questions, and
maybe it will help you out.
          When you said you were told to respond, did
anybody else respond with you?  Any other companies?
     A.   From 35, yeah, there was probably five or six
other engine companies.  I remember 83, I remember 50.
There was either 96 or 94, or maybe both of them.  I'm
not sure.  I know 50 and 83 were there, and 35.
     Q.   Okay.  Do you recall if they responded, they
got there at the same time as you or --
     A.   We were actually the lead engine in the
3
W. HOREL
convoy, so we pulled in first, but they were all right
behind us.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   All right behind us.
     Q.   Do you recall if you reported in to anybody?
     A.   We were working our way towards what we
thought was the command post near Vesey and West, but
as soon as the collapse came, we never got to report in
to anybody at that point.
          Later on, there were smaller command posts
set up all over that our officer checked in with,
but...
     Q.   Okay.  After you got there, like you said,
the collapse occurred very shortly afterwards.
          Did you happen to see -- maybe not
companies.  Did you happen to see any apparatus?
     A.   One apparatus I noticed was 12 truck, because
I had a couple of friends working at 12 truck, so I
knew they would be down there.  I saw the rig, but no
members.
     Q.   Okay.  Where was that located?
     A.   Right around the corner of Vesey and West,
right where we were, a little bit farther in.
     Q.   Okay.  Was it intact or was it --
4
W. HOREL
     A.   It was intact.  It wasn't damaged.
     Q.   And afterwards?
     A.   Yeah, after the collapse I noticed it.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   So...
     Q.   Any other things you can recall?  As far as
did you see any members?
     A.   We stretched line, I remember, to the water.
I guess it was, like, up to one of the boats, one of
the marine units.
     Q.   Right.  That was after the collapse?
     A.   That was after the collapse.
     Q.   As you said, you hadn't seen any members or
anything before that?
     A.   No, not that I can recall.
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  Okay.  This concludes
     the interview.  Thank you.
5
File No. 9110263
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       LIEUTENTANT STANLEY RYBAK
   Interview Date:  December 7, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
S. RYBAK
2
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Today is December 7,
     2001.  The time is 12:10 p.m.  I'm Battalion Chief
     Robert Burns, the safety battalion, New York City
     Fire Department.
          I'm conducting an interview with Lieutenant
     Stanley Rybak in regards to the events on
     September 11, 2001.
     Q.   If you could, Stan, just tell us in your own
words what happened that day.
     A.   Okay.  I was sitting here in my office at
hazmat operations, and I was listening to the
department radio and heard that a plane had hit the
World Trade Center.
          At the time, I didn't know what size of the
plane it was, so I went inside to Chief Fanning to
inform him, and I'm not sure what time it was, but the
first plane had just hit.  I went inside, told Chief
Fanning, and within a minute or so, we both responded
with his department vehicle to the trade center.
          Chief Fanning drove his vehicle, and I was
the passenger.  I had taken two handy-talkies from our
operations.  We went down FDR Drive to some place --
one of the streets -- I'm not sure which one it was --
and that street led us to Central Park.  We made a left
S. RYBAK
3
on Fifth Avenue, drove down Fifth Avenue for some time,
and I'm not sure at what time we -- probably 23rd
Street, we might have turned to go towards the water to
get towards the Westside Highway.
          We did see a flash, which we didn't know was
the second -- at that time, we didn't know if that was
the second plane hitting.  We were probably on about
23rd Street, crossing 23rd Street, when we saw the
flash, and we had -- again, crossing 23rd Street, I saw
the flash of the -- now I know was the second plane
hitting.
          We were on Westside -- now on the Westside
Highway headed south, and we made a turn onto Vesey
Street and parked on the corner of -- on Vesey.
          We both got out of the car.  Chief Fanning
donned his bunker gear.  He did not have breathing
apparatus.  I did not even have my bunker gear.  Hasmet
1 at the same -- simultaneously arrived, and I had gone
to see how I could assist Hasmet 1 and seeing where
they might be going.  They had two officers on board
with extra manpower, extra men.  I wanted to see what
they were doing.  They were going to continue into the
building to -- probably to the lobby command post.
          As I turned around, I did not know where
S. RYBAK
4
Chief Fanning had gone, and so I proceeded then to
the -- what I thought was the original command post,
but there was a -- I was out on the highway itself, and
soon as I got there, I saw a lot of the chiefs setting
up the command post.  The command post, it was on, I
guess, opposite 3 -- the American Express building.
          I know there was -- I jumped over some
dividers, again, and I saw -- it was in the -- near the
parking lot.  There was a parking garage that went down
into a building, and I had spoken to -- I saw Chief
Ganci, the priest, about 20 -- 20 of the personnel,
Chief Ingram.  I asked what I could do to Chief Ingram,
how I could help, and he had just informed me if I
could possibly relay a message to the other units who
were standing fast, that there was a possibility of --
they had heard a third plane coming in and to be aware
of this.  There might be a third plane coming, to tell
the members just to watch out for any other kind of
planes coming in.
          So I did that, and I felt I wasn't needed.  I
was going to go look for Chief Fanning now, and I left
the site, that command post, and walked south down West
Street.  As I was walking south, I saw -- I actually
passed Commissioner Von Essen.  He was walking the
S. RYBAK
5
opposite way.
          I went and walked underneath the pedestrian
bridge -- I guess that would be the north pedestrian
bridge -- and made my way down to the corner of
Liberty, and the corner of Liberty and West Street, and
then that's where I heard -- as I was looking up, I was
observing people drop from the windows, civilians, and
then I heard a noise.
          I looked up from the corner where I was and
saw the building, the ^ inaudible tower, I guess it was
the Tower 2 collapsing, the south tower collapsing.
          I turned around and ran diagonally looking
for some shelter, and I found a -- ran towards the
building that was the Dow Jones center.  It's the
building where it had a revolving door, that's all I
know, and a regular pullout door.
          I chose to go up to the pullout door, and
there was a lot of pressure on me, on the door.  I
could hardly open up the door.  As I walked -- ran
through another 5 or 10 feet, dove on the ground, and
hit a -- what was a garden wall inside the middle of
the lobby, and then the -- then everything just came
right through.  The dust and the explosion knocked the
windows out, and so I was momentarily on the ground.
S. RYBAK
6
          I had hit my head on the marble wall, so kind
of a little dazed, and then the first words I heard, I
heard someone, an officer from 217 engine, screaming
for his men, "217, where are you?  Where are you?"
          So I -- that was my former company, so I went
over to the lieutenant.  I told him who I was, and I
said, "Who are you?"  And he said, "Lieutenant
McGoff."  Tom McGoff was there.  I said, "Tom, this is
Stan.  I don't know if you remember me, but I used to
work over there."  And he said, "I lost two guys."  I
said, "Who did you lose?"  He said, "Steve Coakley and
Levy."
          So we found our way out of that building to
the -- I think that was the north side of the revolving
doors on the -- on Liberty side, and we found our way
out, and it was still -- it was still very dark, dusty,
and then we just proceeded to get together and shake
everything off and then started looking for the missing
members.
          And then it just went on after that, and then
it was -- as we were looking again, the next building
came down, and we were on -- in front of the American
Express building, headed, again, towards West Street.
We were near the pedestrian bridge that did not go
S. RYBAK
7
down.  I don't know which one that connected to, but we
were looking for anybody else who could be found.
          I know there was a lot of missing members
they were talking about, and then again we heard the
building was coming down.  We looked -- you know, I
just felt it coming down and, again, we ran into the
same building.
          That seemed to be -- as I hid behind a column
on this one, it seemed to be a much hotter force going
through, and again found our way out.  We had to search
our way out towards the waterside exit of the
building.  There are, I think, three different exits in
that building, and that one went towards the Gateway
Plaza, towards the water, and again, we just started at
that time in trying to collect ourselves and go get
whatever kind of medical attention we needed.
          A lot of guys with eyes were -- you couldn't
see and breathing and because we had no -- like I said,
no apparatus, so -- and that was it after the second
building collapsed, and then we just continued on
searching, and that's about it.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Okay.  Thanks, Stan.
     That's the conclusion of our interview.  It's
     12:18 p.m.
File No. 9110264
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       LIEUTENANT JOHN CITARELLA
   Interview Date:  December 7, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
                  J. CITARELLA                  2
          CHIEF BURNS:  Today's date is December
     7th, 2001.  The time is 11:25 a.m.  I'm
     Battalion Chief Robert Burns of the Safety
     Battalion.  I'm conducting an interview
     with --
          LIEUTENANT CITARELLA:  Lieutenant John
     Citarella.
          CHIEF BURNS:  -- of hazmat operations
     with regard to the events of September 11th,
     2001.
     Q.   John, if you would, just tell us in
your own words what happened the day of the World
Trade Center.
     A.   Well, I was here at the academy.  I was
on the phone with my old company, Squad 41.  I
was talking to the members there.  They were
going to come out and do a drill out here in the
afternoon.  One of them said, "Did you hear that
on the radio?  A plane just hit the Trade
Center."  I said, "Really?  I'll call you right
back."
          I went upstairs.  I spoke to Chief
Fanning.  He was already putting his radio on.
He was getting ready to respond.  He turned on
                  J. CITARELLA                  3
the TV.  He saw the one tower had gotten hit.  My
friend next door, Lieutenant Steve Turilli, he
came up and said, "Come on, let's go down there."
We didn't have our gear with us here, so we went
to Squad 41, got gear there, and then headed
down.
          On the way down we heard that another
plane had hit, on the department radio, that
Marine 6 gave an urgent that another plane hit
the south tower.  We continued down.  We parked
on Washington Street, went west on Vesey Street
and then made a left onto West Street.
          As we were walking down West Street,
there were numerous people jumping out of the top
floors, the upper floors.  They were landing
right next to us.  I remember them hitting my leg
as they were landing, parts hitting the divider
on West Street.
          We got into Rescue 3's rig, took their
confined space masks and converted them over to
regular masks.  We ran into Freddie Scheffold and
Joe Marchbanks.  They were asking us where the
command post was, and we said, "We just got here.
We don't know."
                  J. CITARELLA                  4
          We started walking around, looking for
the command post.  We walked down West Street,
made a left on Liberty Street.  When we were
walking down Liberty Street, there was I think a
guy from 217.  He was an officer.  I think he was
from 217.  He was screaming at us.  We came over,
"What's going on?"  He told us that a fireman
just got killed, got hit by a body in that spot
that we were walking.
          So we came back around and then made
our way into the hotel, into the Marriott Hotel.
Once we got in the hotel, we met up with -- Chief
Galvin was there, and he asked where we were
from.  Me and Steve said we were from the rescue
school.  He knew Freddie from the 12th.  Freddie
wasn't even working that day.  He went down there
with Joe Marchbanks.
          The chief told us, "All right, make
your way to the 90th floor in the south tower."
I remember Steve started walking right away.  I
remember I put my arm around Freddie and I said,
"Did he say the 90th floor?"  Freddie looked at
me and said, "Hold on a second."
          Right as he said that, I heard a loud
                  J. CITARELLA                  5
roar, "boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom," and
it was getting louder.  I looked around, and we
were looking at each other.  What is that noise?
I just looked out the window of the lobby.  I
could see stuff out of the window of the lobby
hitting the street, and I just dove into the
corner of the wall.
          I got down and put my head down, and
nothing was happening.  I just heard that noise
getting louder and louder.  All of a sudden
"whoom," everything just went black.  You could
feel the air rush around.
          The wall that I was leaning against
started coming down and "crunch, crunch, crunch."
You could still here things coming down.  I was
squashed right down.  I said one more thing hits
this wall, I'm going to be squashed.
          Then it just got real quiet and
stopped.  You could see nothing.  My head was
shoved down into the floor and the wall was on my
mask and my knee was in my chest and my leg was
out.  The only free hand I had was my right hand,
and I was able to grab my radio that I had and I
was trying to give a mayday, but nothing was
                  J. CITARELLA                  6
responding.
          I couldn't hear anything on the radio.
I just started screaming at the top of my lungs,
"Mayday, mayday, help me, someone."  Of course
the way my head was like this and the ground, I
was having a hard time breathing.  I would scream
for about 15 seconds.  Then I would like
hyperventilate.  Then I would just listen.  There
were no sounds.  I know Freddie was right next to
me, and I know Joe Marchbanks, we were as close
as this.  I would start screaming again.
          This went on it felt like forever, but
probably about 15 to 20 minutes.  I was resolved
to the fact that I wasn't getting out, it was
over.  Then I heard someone go, "John, is that
you?"  I knew it was Steve.  I said, "Stevie, get
me out of here."  I started screaming.  He said,
"Where are you?"  I was like, where am I?  You
can't see where I -- I didn't know what was going
on.
          I started screaming some more.  He
said, "See if you can grab --" I reached out with
my right hand, and I felt something.  I just
started hitting like a pipe or something, "click,
                  J. CITARELLA                  7
click, click."  "All right," he said, "Can you
see my light?"  Just out of the corner of my eye,
because it was so squished like this, I'm looking
and I don't see nothing.
          All of a sudden I see the light come
in.  I put my hand up like this.  He said all he
could see were my fingers from my glove coming
up.  Larry Stack was there with him at the time.
He had a flashlight.  The chief didn't have it.
          I think what happened was I had spoken
to Mike Stack, and he said his father was pinned
originally and they had to cut him out of his
coat.  He started moving stuff out of the way.
Steve took off his coat and he tunnelled in and
he saw me.  There was a lot of stuff.  He yelled
back to Chief Stack to get a saws-all.  He said,
"You're on your own.  We've got nothing here."
          It took them a while.  It took them
probably about five minutes to maneuver the stuff
out of the way.  There was an I beam on my foot
and some debris.  Once he got that out, he was
able to take my foot and he straightened it out a
little bit.  That actually dropped my body just
enough that the mask was able to turn and he was
                  J. CITARELLA                  8
able to turn the mask and take the mask off.
          Now I was starting to be able to rock a
little bit, and he was able to turn me out
into -- it was like a lean-to.  I was here, and
there was a lean-to to the right of me that he
was actually able to crawl under.  I went out
feet first, and then I saw Stack was there.  It
was Chief Stack and I guess Meyers.
     Q.   Right, Brian Meyers.
     A.   Yeah.  When I came out, he said,
"Welcome back, John."  I remember that
distinctly.  I gave Steve a big kiss and we were
starting to talk and Stack said, "Let's get out
of here right now.  We've got to get out of
here."
          We started walking up north now, in the
hotel.  We walked up north, and we must have
gotten to about this section right here north in
the hotel, and there was a door there.  We tried
to open the door, but there was too much debris
on the other side of the door to open it.  We
swung back around and we got to about here.
     Q.   "Here," what do you mean?
     A.   On the West Street side of the
                  J. CITARELLA                  9
building.  West Street, maybe it would have been
20 feet south of the northern most end of the
hotel.
          There was a hole in the wall there.
O'Flaherty was there and a civilian, and we
walked up.  We stopped there.  Chief Downey was
out in the street at this time.  He came running
over to us, and he looked at me and Steve.
"Steve," he said, "What are you guys doing here?"
Chief Stack said, "These guys were buried.
They've got to get out of here."  Downey said,
"You guys run out."  He told us to run out.
          Ganci and Feehan were out in the street
at that time.  He told us to run out towards
them.  Downey and Stack were going to stay with
the civilian.  The civilian didn't want to walk
across.  He said he pulled his Achilles tendon or
whatever and he wasn't going to be able to make
it across.  He wanted to stay right where he was.
          We walked across.  Steve stopped for a
second to talk to Al Fuentes, who was standing in
the street.  It was still right in front of the
hotel.  We were all right in this area.
     Q.   That's on West Street.
                  J. CITARELLA                 10
     A.   It's on West Street.  Chief Ganci and
Commissioner Feehan were standing right next to
each other like actually out in the street.  You
could still make out the street a little bit.
All that iron wasn't thrown into the street at
the time.  There was debris in the street but not
to the extent that there was when the other one
came down.
          Chief Downey and Chief Stack stayed
right by the hotel.  Fuentes was in the middle of
both of them, of both sets.  Chief Ganci
immediately asked me if my radio was working and
tried to grab it.  He said he was trying to get
in touch with Rescue 1 and he couldn't get
through with his radio.  But my radio was
smashed.  Mine wasn't working at all.
          He told me and Steve Turilli to head up
West Street, north on West Street.  We walked
about maybe 10 feet to 15 feet up West Street.
We ran into Joe Angelini.  Joe said he was going
to go back.  He was going to try to go into the
hotel because he thought there were more people
in there.
          The captain from 58 Engine was also
                  J. CITARELLA                 11
with us, Nagel.  58 Engine was going to go up in
the south tower with us.  They were starting to
get down and get their rollups and stuff, putting
them up, the officer came walking over.
          Joe Angelini and I were out in West
Street, and he starts walking towards the hotel.
We tried to tell him, "Joe, they want everyone
out of here.  They think the other one is going
to come down."  He started walking over.
          We started walking now up West Street.
We got to about -- I guess we met Joe somewhere
in here, because I remember stopping -- I was
right in front of the north tower.  I stopped and
I looked back, and I saw him walking on a
diagonal and I remember still seeing Chief Downey
standing on the outside of the hotel, looking in,
and Stack still being there with the civilian at
that time.
          I turned, I took maybe a couple more
steps, and then I heard another explosion, it
sounded like.  I looked up, and the north tower
was starting to come down.  So me and Steve
started running.  I saw the north bridge, and I
said I've got to at least make it past the north
bridge.
J. CITARELLA                 12
          I started running, and I just made it
past the north bridge and I got a little bit past
that and I felt like someone just hit me from
behind.  But there was no debris at that time.
It was just I got knocked down.  I tried to get
back up, and there was a couple of trucks lined
up on West Street.  I got behind one of the
trucks.  Everything just came down.
          Steve didn't make it as far as I did.
I got a little further because he stopped and
watched a little more as the tower was coming
down.  That was the last I saw of any of those
guys.
          It turns out obviously now that Ganci
and Commissioner Feehan, they probably didn't
make it much of a way, because all the iron got
thrown into the street when this one came down.
          I know that Downey, Stack, Freddie and
Joe Marchbanks are in the hotel for sure.  I had
spoken to Freddie Scheffold's wife and kids, and
I spoke to Larry Stack's son.  But I know that's
where they are.
          There's no way that they can be
                  J. CITARELLA                 13
anywhere else, because in the time it took -- if
Downey didn't go into the hotel to take cover, he
would have ran and they would have found him in
the street.  He had to have gone into the hotel.
I didn't stop -- I didn't actually see him go in,
but where he was when I looked up when the
building came down, he's in the hotel, in this
area right here, the northern part.  Freddie and
Joe and the guy from 58 are more in the center,
but Stack and Downey are more in this part, in
the northern part of the hotel.
     Q.   Let me ask you one question.  When you
were in the south tower, did you see any other
units that were getting ready to go up?  Were
they staging?
     A.   We never actually made it into the
south tower, because there was a spot in the
hotel where you traversed I guess underneath and
into the south tower.  That's where we were
starting to head to.  There are other units in
the hotel.
          I couldn't tell you for sure who it
was, but I think we saw Kerwin from 288 in the
lobby there.  He was starting to go into the
                  J. CITARELLA                 14
Trade Center, down through the lobby.  There were
a couple of companies.  I can't remember.  There
were companies from all over the place.
          But the south part of the tower -- when
the south tower came down, the south part of the
hotel was saved pretty much intact.  A lot of
guys that were in that section survived, got out.
They weren't buried at all.  They were able to
get out.
          I remember there were a couple of rigs
parked on Vesey Street where the MPOs were.  I
remember borrowing gloves from one of the engines
that were parked there.  It might have been 24
Engine.  I don't know what happened to those guys
over there.
          But that was pretty much all the guys
that I saw in the street.  I know Joe Angelini
they found in the street and Ganci and Feehan
they found in the street.  But those guys are in
the hotel.
     Q.   Okay, John, thanks.
          CHIEF BURNS:  The time is 11:41:30
     p.m.  This concludes the interview.
File No. 9110265
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER STEVEN ALTINI
   Interview Date:  December 7, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
S. ALTINI 2
          CHIEF KEMLY:  Today is Friday, December
     7th, 2001.  The time is 1615 hours.  This is
     Battalion Chief Ronald Kemly of the Fire
     Department, City of New York.  I am
     conducting an interview with the following
     individual:  Steven Altini, firefighter
     first, assigned to Engine Company 24 of the
     Fire Department, City of New York.  The
     interview is being conducted at the quarters
     of Engine 24 in the engine office, regarding
     the events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Fireman Altini, would you please tell
me what happened on September 11th.
     A.   Okay.  Me and two other off-duty
firefighters responded from home prior to the
recall.  We went over the Verrazano Narrows
Bridge.  Looking towards Manhattan, we could see
the two towers, pretty heavy smoke rushing from
the towers.
          We responded through Brooklyn via the
Gowanus Expressway.  We were waved through the
easy pass lane from PD as we showed our ID, who
we were.  We proceeded to go through the Battery
Tunnel.  We noticed no fire apparatus or
S. ALTINI 3
emergency vehicles as we went through, just some
civilian vehicles.
          As we exited the Battery Tunnel to
lower Manhattan, we proceeded to make a right
turn onto West Street where we were confronted
with a lot of debris in the street, airplane
debris, human remains and such.
          We pulled our pickup truck just north
of the Marriott at Carlisle Street on the east
side of West Street, facing north.  As we exited
the vehicle, two other firefighters donned their
protective gear and headed north towards tower
two or one.
          Me being in civilian clothes and no
protective gear, I proceeded west across West
Street to Commissioner Gregory and his aide and
asked them where the off-duty firemen were going,
and what I can do.  I was instructed to either
remain at the scene or proceed over to City Hall
where the firefighters were now mustering up
after the recall.
          As I was there, I remember seeing
Ladder 113, but there was no members there.  This
was between 9:30 and 10.  I don't know the exact
S. ALTINI 4
time the second plane hit the tower, but that's
exactly when we left Staten Island.  It took us
maybe about 20 minutes to get in.
          I noticed an engine company -- I
believe it was Engine 211 -- pull up.  As they
were getting out of the rig, I went over to the
chauffeur and asked them if they had protective
gear that I could borrow.  Being the chauffeur
was also suiting up, they had no extra gear.
          With that I headed east across West
Street and went through the Marriott at Carlisle
Street, exiting the rear onto Washington Street,
headed north one block, over east another block
to Greenwich Street, where I met up with another
fireman who was in full gear from Engine 249.
          We proceeded north towards Engine 10,
and we tried to enter their quarters through the
rear basement entrance, which was locked.  As we
continued north on Greenwich Street towards the
corner of Liberty and Greenwich is when tower two
started to come down.
          The only other apparatus I saw, that I
remembered seeing on Liberty Street in front of
tower two, I believe it was Ladder 15.  The
S. ALTINI 5
number is not clear, but I thought it was Ladder
15.  I may be mistaken.  I confronted no
personnel other than the one member from 249 at
that point.
          We found cover at the corner of Cedar
and Greenwich Street as tower two was coming
down, in a deli next to O'Hara's Restaurant.
After it sounded like the tower was finished
collapsing, we exited the deli and headed south
one block, where we were separated, me and the
fireman.
          I met up with a fire cadet, Eddie
Gonzalez, who sustained a broken left arm, I
believe, and we got him to an ambulance maybe
about 15 minutes, 20 minutes later.  By that time
tower one had already come down.
          When he was taken away in the
ambulance, I went around by Battery Park and back
up West Street where there was a lot of firemen
that weren't there earlier.  I didn't see
Commissioner Gregory or his aide.  I didn't see
any other members that I saw prior to the
collapses.  Just a lot of firemen from out of the
borough I guess responded from the recall.
S. ALTINI 6
          I gave Chief Mosier from the 8th
Division some information about the two members
that I came up to Manhattan with, because at this
point I knew they were missing and I thought they
were caught in the collapse of either one or two,
tower one or tower two.  I wasn't sure, because
they didn't say where they were going.
          Throughout the day I met many different
personnel, and we continued to search and help
stretch some hose line from the tugboats to
supply tower ladders on West Street, and that was
pretty much it.
     Q.   I'm just going to ask you a couple
questions.  That was pretty good.
          When you say you went there with two
other firemen, who were the others?
     A.   It was Craig Monahan from Ladder
Company 5 and Joseph Rea from Engine Company 255.
     Q.   They had their gear with them?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   When you were on West Street, you said
you were on West Street and you met Commissioner
Gregory.
A. Right.
S. ALTINI 7
     Q.   Where on West Street was he?  Do you
know what street?
     A.   Yeah, we were pretty much right between
Liberty and Cedar, just south of the south
walkway bridge, at the median in the divider.
There was a separation in the divider, and he had
his car and they were there, facing north.
     Q.   You mentioned 211, again on West
Street.  Do you know where on West Street?  Is
that the same location?
     A.   Same location.  They pulled up, and the
officer had come out and I believe he spoke to
Commissioner Gregory.  At that point I went over
and spoke to the chauffeur as he was donning his
gear.
     Q.   And the guy from 249, you don't recall
his name?
     A.   No, I'm sorry.
     Q.   That's okay.
     A.   I was told his name a couple of times.
     Q.   Okay.  Fine.
     A.   I don't remember.
     Q.   It would help, but that's fine.
          And Ladder 15, you said they were on
S. ALTINI 8
West Street also on Liberty Street.  Is that the
overpass, the south overpass?
     A.   No, it looked like they were facing --
they were on the north side of Liberty Street
facing east on a diagonal.  I hate to speculate,
but they may have come around by Battery Park and
then up West Street and parked their rig in front
of tower two.  They weren't near tower one.
     Q.   No, but the overpass on Liberty Street,
the south walkway.
     A.   Right.
     Q.   Were they near that?
     A.   They were just north of that and east.
     Q.   Okay.  If you don't have anything else,
that concludes the interview.  Thank you very
much.
A. Thank you.
File No. 9110266
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER ROBERT BYRNE
   Interview Date:  December 7, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
R. BYRNE 2
          CHIEF KEMLY:  Today's date is December
     7th, 2001.  The time is 1645 hours.  This is
     Battalion Chief Ronald Kemly of the New York
     City Fire Department.  I'm conducting an
     interview with the following individual:
     Firefighter 6th grade Robert Byrne, assigned
     to Engine Company 24 of the Fire Department
     of the City of New York.
          The interview is taking place at the
     quarters of Engine 24, in the company
     office, regarding the events of September
     11th, 2001.
     Q.   Fireman Byrne, would you please tell me
what happened on September 11th.
     A.   September 11th I arrived for work early
to do my probationary firefighter duties so I was
square with everything.  When we got the call to
go, I was able to -- I had to beg the nozzle man
to let me take up on him, which I did.  The call
came in around 8:46, so we responded immediately.
So I had the knob.
          En route to the World Trade Center, it
was myself as the nozzle man, Marcel Claes was
the backup, Dan Sterling was the doorman, and
R. BYRNE 3
Rich Billy had control, Lieutenant Hanson was my
officer and John Ottrando was our chauffeur.
          While going to the Trade Center, I'm
really doing my size-up and saying, oh, my God,
there's like ten floors missing.  Everything is
blowing out fire.  I remember looking how high it
is and saying, oh, my God, how are we going to
get up there with all of our equipment.
          We parked on, I'm pretty sure it was
the West Side Highway by Vesey.  I'm almost sure
it was over in that area.  I remember John parked
the rig.  We headed to the north tower at that
time.
          When we were going there, I remember
seeing debris and whatnot falling.  When we got
to the staging area inside the lobby, I remember
seeing other companies.  I remember vividly
seeing it looked like the core elevators of the
building were blown apart as if a giant had
punched through tinfoil.
          I remember seeing some bodies.  I
remember looking out into the courtyard and
seeing some mutilated bodies.  Debris was
everywhere.  I remember we were just waiting for
R. BYRNE 4
our assignment.
          From there we headed up, I believe it
was behind Ladder 20, and we headed up to the
staircase A.  We got as far as, I'd say, the 13th
floor initially.  We had to take our first blow
because we were carrying a lot of equipment.
          There were civilians jamming the
staircase.  There was water flowing down the
staircase; I remember that.  People saying,
"Thank you, guys."  I remember another unit
behind us.  I don't remember what company they
were with.  One of the senior guys was saying
basically, "You're almost there, folks.  You're
almost there."  Then I started joking around with
the people.  I said, "Yeah, all this for 32
grand."  People thought it was funny.  That was
my way of trying to make them feel better, tell
them a joke.
          On the 13th floor we took a break.  I
remember hearing radio calls then, by other
units, some maydays, members down with chest
pains.  I don't know what floors they were on.
          I kept going up.  I remember seeing
people coming down in the stairs.  We had to make
R. BYRNE 5
way for a couple of people that had their skin
hanging off their bodies, basically.  They were
pretty burnt up.
          I don't remember what floor it was, but
we were with a woman who had an asthma attack and
a man was helping her down.  We were trying to
help her.  We didn't have too much CFR stuff with
us, but some EMT I guess it was -- popped out of
nowhere.  He had an oxygen tank with no proper
rebreather mask, but he was able to give her a
little air.
          To make a long story short, she was
able to get out because she decided not to stay
and wait for EMS to help her out.  She just got
out.  She got out of the building.
          It was around the 29th floor, I think
it was, that we decided to take some of our gear
off in order to make it up to the 80th floor.
Then we moved up to I think it was the 29th
floor.  I don't remember what other units were up
there.  Like I was saying, we were going to take
some gear off, leave a few of the hose lengths.
We carried a lot of gear up, and it was almost
impossible to make it up that high anyway.
R. BYRNE 6
          That's where we left Rich Billy to be
communications relay, basically, because
communications were pretty poor in the staircase.
Personally I didn't hear a lot of radio
transmissions.
          I remember going to I believe it was
the 35th floor we got to, and that's where we ran
into 5 Truck, our guys.  They saw us.  We came
into the hallway, and we were pooped.  They came
over and offered us water.  We took a blow there
for a little bit.
          I remember somebody had gotten into a
water dispenser, and we took Poland Spring
bottles.  I think it was Andy Brunn that got into
it.  We were giving them out to civilians on
their way down.
          I remember later on we went up to -- I
don't know if it was still on the 35th floor and
that's when we all dove into the staircase
because basically the whole tower shook and we
heard the noise of something going on.  We didn't
know what it was.
          What it was was the south tower
collapsing.  We didn't know.  Finally we got some
R. BYRNE 7
sort of transmission on the radio saying there
was a collapse on the 60th floor.  Meanwhile the
south tower happened to come down.
          We were still on a rest period.  We
started going back.  We were supposed to meet up
with another unit; I don't remember who it was.
We made it as far as, I believe it was the 37th
floor, and I believe it was a chief from the 11th
Battalion that popped up on the staircase.  His
exact words were "Drop everything and get out."
We looked to Lieutenant Hanson, and he said,
"Drop everything and get out."  That's when we
basically evacuated.
          I remember going up the stairs took us
over the hour.  Getting down the stairs took
maybe ten minutes, not even.  By that time the
staircase was empty.  The same staircase we took
up was empty on the way down.
          We got as far as I believe the 10th
floor, 10th or 15th -- I'm not a hundred percent
sure -- and we knew something was bad at that
time anyway.
          There was a radio transmission for --
they needed help.  Lieutenant Hanson told me to
R. BYRNE 8
get out because my -- when the chief told me to
drop everything, because I'm a proby, I followed
orders to the T, I guess, and I dropped
everything, except for my bunker gear, of course.
But I dropped my Scott tank and everything.  When
I got down to that floor, he said, "All right,
Byrne, you don't have your face piece.  Just get
out of the building."
          Basically, I got as far as the third
floor, where I ran into -- it looked like there
was a collapse down there.  It was pretty bad.
It was all smoky and dusty.  I thought it was
smoke, and I got a little nervous.  I was at the
point where I was going to go up and get another
Scott tank, but I realized it wasn't smoke.
          That's when I saw it was a collapse.
It looked like a collapse; either that or the
collapse and just closed up the staircase, I
think it was the second floor, third or second
floor, whatever it was.  That's where I ran into
a Port Authority cop, and he directed me out.
          It was a good thing I had my flashlight
on still, because it was pitch-black.  I followed
a pitch-black hallway, and that's where I ran
R. BYRNE 9
into a group of civilians.  When we got to the
point, I think it was the lobby, and that's where
we had -- we had a little overhead protection
there, and then we had to run across to the next
overhead protection it was about a 75 foot run.
There were jumpers and debris that was falling.
We had to pretty much take our chance when we
made the run.
          Before that I remember running into
another guy in my probationary class, Jimmy
Brown.  He was with 10-10.  He was saying he
doesn't know where everybody is.  To make a long
story short with Jimmy Brown, he ended up living
but he got buried up to his shoulders.  They had
to dig him out before he suffocated.
          I remember making the mad dash, praying
I wasn't going to get hit.  I took a peek up.  I
saw it looked clear to me, and I ran.  I was
under another bit of overhead protection, but it
wasn't really that good a protection because the
aluminum was just coming down from that building.
It was just going through that thick plate glass
like a hot knife through butter.  There were
bodies littering the courtyard.  Everything was
on fire.
R. BYRNE 10
          So I was by myself with 20 civilians, I
guess.  I was the only fireman.  The whole line
stopped because we had to stay in a single column
to keep the overhead protection.  I didn't
understand why the column stopped.  I was
worried.  I was like, why is this thing stopping?
          So I went around to the front, and
that's when I found this big lady and she
couldn't walk.  Basically I was like, "Lady,
you've got to get up.  You're going to kill
everybody."  She said, "No, just leave me here."
So we couldn't do that of course.  I tried to
help carry her, but I was just so exhausted.  She
wouldn't give any effort whatsoever to get up.  I
told her I have to go get a straight board.
          Right around the corner of the
building, maybe 20 feet, 30 feet, I found a
couple of ESU cops.  With them two and myself, we
were able to get her as far as Church and Vesey
on the courtyard still.  We're not in the street
level; we're still right next to the building.
          I think there was another cop that came
over with a straight board.  We strapped her in,
R. BYRNE 11
we took her down the stairs, and that's when the
building came down.  We were about 150 feet away
when the building came down.
          I remember when the building came down
I couldn't believe it, because I didn't even know
the other one came down yet, because we were
never told.  We were told it was a collapse above
the 60th floor.
          What's that, Chief?  I'm sorry.
          All of a sudden the lady was able to
get up and walk fine.  That was good.  At least
she lived.  Because I didn't have a mask, I
inhaled quite a bit of that stuff.  It went in my
eyes, everything.
          I remember walking into, I think it was
towards Vesey, and I saw somebody in the middle
of the street and said, "Who are you?  "I don't
know if I said, "Who are you?"  I just remember
looking.  I kept on walking towards the only
person I saw.  It turned out to be Lieutenant
Hanson.  He barely got out too.
          Together him and I were able to walk a
block or half a block through all that debris.
The debris was burning.  We got help from a group
R. BYRNE 12
of maintenance guys in a building.  They were
able to wash our faces for us with a five gallon
jug.  From there we got over to 7 and 1 somehow.
          That's about it.
     Q.   Okay.  Thank you.  I have some
questions just to clarify stuff.
     A.   Sure.
     Q.   That was a good job there.
          The first question, you said there were
other companies that you saw on the way, but you
don't remember their numbers?  When you got to
Vesey and West, you started walking.  These other
companies, you didn't take any notice?
     A.   When I was going in or out?
     Q.   Going in, walking towards the north
tower.  You reported to the lobby command post,
probably, but do you know who the chief was at
the lobby command post?
     A.   Yeah, I remember seeing Chief Hayden.
     Q.   All right, Chief Hayden.
     A.   Because I remember there was a
firefighter from this house.  I think it was 5
Truck.  I remember seeing him around here before
that, and he was setting up the table, the
R. BYRNE 13
command table they use.  I remember him knocking
it down.  That's what drew my attention to see
Chief Hayden.
     Q.   All right.  So that was the aide
probably of the division.
A. Right.
     Q.   So that was Division 1 was there
already.
          But you didn't see any other companies
like in the lobby, the numbers, any numbers?
     A.   I remember seeing 5 Truck too.
     Q.   You don't know where he directed him
to?
     A.   No.
     Q.   You went up the stairs with Ladder 20?
     A.   Yes.  They were leading us.
     Q.   No other companies came down or up
while you were working that staircase?
     A.   We were passing companies.
     Q.   But you didn't take notice of their
numbers?
     A.   I didn't take notice.  It was my first
job, basically.
     Q.   Okay.
R. BYRNE 14
          You said you didn't hear much on the
radio.  Did you have a radio?
     A.   I did not, but I was close enough to
listen.
     Q.   That's fine.
          The 11th Battalion, the chief you saw,
you said you believe it was the 11th?
     A.   Right.
     Q.   Did you see anybody with him?  Was his
aide with him?
     A.   No, he was by himself.
     Q.   He was by himself.  All right.
          And you met 5 Truck on, what did you
say, the 35th?
     A.   The 35th floor, I believe it was.
     Q.   When you were coming down, did you see
any other Fire Department units or any apparatus
when you came out?
     A.   When I came out there was an engine.  I
forgot the number.
     Q.   It was probably crushed; right?
     A.   No.
     Q.   It was in good shape?
     A.   It was in good shape after the building
R. BYRNE 15
collapsed.
     Q.   You came out of the lobby on the Church
Street side.  Is that what you said?  I believe
you said that.
     A.   Yeah, either that or I came out another
way.  I had to go around the building.
     Q.   That's when you saw the engine, when
you first came out?
     A.   After the building came down I saw the
engine, because I went to look for a Scott tank.
     Q.   When you saw this fellow Jim Brown, was
he in the lobby?  Outside?
     A.   I'm pretty sure he was in the lobby.  I
thought he was just right outside the lobby.
Just before the mad dash.
          There was something else I missed, I
wanted to tell.
     Q.   Okay.  If you can remember something
else, go ahead.  There's no rush.
     A.   I just forgot it.
     Q.   There's no rush.
     A.   Sorry.  Thinking about this bugs you
out.
     Q.   No, we're just trying to find out if
R. BYRNE 16
you saw the units --
     A.   Oh, okay, I remember now.  I remember
exactly.  I remember 5 Truck telling us that they
got up staircase B because it was empty of
civilians, because we were telling them how we
were packed with civilians.  They told us to take
B with them, and we ended up just staying in A.
That is what I remembered.
     Q.   Okay.  If there's nothing else, that
concludes the interview.  Thank you very much.
     A.   Thank you, Chief.
     Q.   Okay.
File No. 9110267
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER RICHARD MASSA
   Interview Date:  December 7, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
R. MASSA 2
          CHIEF KEMLY:  Today is December 7th,
     2001.  The time is 10:20 in the morning.
     This is Battalion Chief Ronald Kemly of the
     New York City Fire Department.  I'm
     conducting an interview with Richard Massa
     of Engine 64, firefighter first grade.  The
     interview is taking place at the quarters of
     Engine 64 regarding the events of September
     11, 2001.
     Q.   Firefighter Massa, please tell me what
happened in your own words on September 11th.
     A.   I was chauffeuring for 64 Engine, and
we responded to the World Trade Center from a
command post on 125th Street and Third Avenue.
We went down there with about four other engine
companies.  We went down there together.
          On the way down we heard reports of the
first building collapsing, and we heard on the
dispatch system of people being trapped.  I
remember one instance, there was a guy giving a
mayday from inside one of the apparatuses, of
being trapped inside there.  It was hard to
believe what we were hearing.
          Heading down the West Side Highway, I
R. MASSA 3
went down West Street as far as I could go, which
was on West and Eighth, West Street and Eighth
Street.  I think it was called Eighth.  I went
down as far as I could.  There were apparatus
backing up all the way on West Street.  So that's
as far down as I believe I was able to go.
          Looking down to the World Trade Center,
I saw just really a puff of smoke where the north
tower would have been.  I still found it hard to
believe that it was actually collapsed.  I
thought maybe it was just hidden behind the
smoke.
          When I got out, I started getting on my
gear to go down with my men.  I realized that I
had no mask, because the chauffeur's mask was
being used by one of the firemen whose mask was
out of service.  So I reported to my officer that
I had no mask.  He said to hang back.
          What I started doing right away was I
remember seeing one other chauffeur that was back
there with me.  I didn't know who he was.  We
started moving the rigs over to one side, because
all of West Street was blocked up.  We figured if
anybody needed to get by -- I don't know if there
R. MASSA 4
was an order given for us to start doing that or
not, but I was kind of seeing to it myself.  I
thought at least I could be doing something.  I
could be moving the apparatus over.
          I started moving a bunch of engines and
trucks over to the side.  While I was doing that,
the north tower, the second tower to collapse,
collapsed.  I watched that and backed up a little
bit from the smoke.  It was really out of reach
from me.  It was hard to tell at the time how far
it was going to go.  But after that I continued
moving apparatus over to one side.
          So from then when I lost my men, I
never met up with them until the evening time
after 6:00 o'clock.  We got down there between
five and ten minutes before the second building
collapsed.
          After that, after moving over the rigs
to the side, someone was going around with wheel
barrows collecting tools and anything that might
be important for down at the site.  So I went to
a few apparatuses and looked for maybe halogens
or whatever they were looking for, extra masks,
to be brought down there, then setting up
R. MASSA 5
hospitals after that, just trying to set up or
help out with what I could at the time.
          I went looking for my company a few
times, trying to head down as close as I could to
the Trade Center.  There was always a lot of
people around.  I know I met up with 94 Engine
for quite a while, from my battalion, and I knew
them pretty well.  I hung out with them.  We were
at a command post at the time, and we were told
to hang back while Seven World Trade was on fire
and they were afraid of collapse.
          That's really pretty much how I spent
my day, trying to help set up what I could with
the hospitals or with equipment.  I spent a lot
of time trying to look for my men.  I tried to
listen by radio if I could hear where they may
be, but I never found them until after 6:00.
          I really didn't get too close to the
buildings to really see anything that happened.
I was pretty much always a few blocks away.
          If there's anything else that would be
important that I could tell you -- I didn't
report to any command post on my own.
     Q.   Okay.  I've got a couple questions.
R. MASSA 6
          When you said you got to Eighth Street,
you said you heard a mayday on the department
radio.  Do you recall who gave it?
     A.   No, I don't.  The fireman gave his
name.  I'm not even sure.  But I know he was
stuck in an apparatus.
     Q.   He didn't say what company?
     A.   He probably did.  More than likely he
did, because I remember the dispatcher asking,
"Calm down and try to give the location where you
were."  I remember hearing him saying that he was
running out of air.  I was looking at my officer.
We were looking at each other like we couldn't
believe what we were hearing.
          No, I don't remember his name or what
unit he was from.
     Q.   When you say another chauffeur and
yourself were moving rigs, apparatus, did you
happen to know what company he was from?
     A.   No.  I didn't know who he was.  I
didn't recognize him.
     Q.   Do you remember any of the company
numbers of the apparatus you were moving?
     A.   I really didn't pay attention.
R. MASSA 7
     Q.   The same thing happened when you took
the tools, you were putting the tools in, you
don't remember company numbers?
     A.   There wasn't any tools that were taken.
But no, I really wasn't looking.  I probably knew
at the time but didn't try to remember.
     Q.   When you were moving the apparatus, you
were getting closer to the buildings?
     A.   No, I was just moving to the side.
     Q.   This is all the way up by Eighth
Street?
A. Yeah.
     Q.   Okay.  When you say you hooked up with
94, that was after the collapses?
     A.   That was after the collapses.
     Q.   Okay.  Unless you can think of
something else, that will be the end of the
interview.
     A.   No, I remember helping a few civilians
that were walking, back around that time after I
was moving the rigs, with oxygen.  Some of them I
guess had difficulty breathing.  So I used mine
from 64 Engine, my oxygen, to help civilians.
          I remember one woman in particular, she
R. MASSA 8
took some oxygen for a few minutes, said thank
you and then I put the stuff back and started to
head down to hook up with some of my men.  I
don't remember helping anybody else besides that
one woman.
          There's nothing else I can think of as
far as incidents like that as far as helping any
civilians coming by.  There were some around
there.  There were some firemen back with me that
I know were helping people that were coming back
that needed maybe some oxygen.
          Type of tools or what engine or truck
companies are gone from me.
     Q.   Do you have anything else?
     A.   I don't think so.
     Q.   Okay.  That concludes the interview.
Thank you.
File No. 9110268
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
     BATTALION CHIEF ROBERT INGRAM
   Interview Date:  December 7, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
R. INGRAM
2
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Today is the 7th of
     December 2001.  The time is 1:25 p.m.  I'm
     Battalion Chief Robert Burns, the Safety
     Battalion, New York City Fire Department.
     Q.   I'm conducting an interview with?
     A.   Battalion Chief Bob Ingram, acting Chief of
hazmat operations now.  At the time of September 11 I
was working in headquarters as an executive manager for
special operations.
     Q.   Okay.  Maybe you could tell me about what you
saw and did on the day of the Trade Center tragedy.
     A.   On the day of the event, I was in my office
in operations, 7th floor of headquarters, when I heard
a commotion outside.  I looked outside.  Several people
were viewing out the window of Chief Ganci's office.  I
went to see what was going on and we were able to see
the north tower on fire.  We got the report that a
plane had crashed into it.
          Along with Chief Ganci, Chief Nigro, Chief
Turi, Chief Burns, myself, we all went down to the
garage, got into our vehicles and responded to the
World Trade towers over the Brooklyn Bridge.  On the
way through the streets of Manhattan we passed hundreds
of civilians fleeing.  We got on to West Side Highway
R. INGRAM
3
down by West Street, parked my vehicle along with Chief
Ganci's and Chief Nigro's on West Street.  It was just
north about 50 feet, 40 feet of the north pedestrian
bridge.
          We got outside and we were viewing the
building, height of the smoke and flame that were
visible.  We decided to set up a command post on the
outside in the side street on the west side of West
Street over by the financial building.  As we were out
there trying to notify units, we had radioed to
position, we heard the second plane come in and
observed it hit the second building, south tower.
          Prior to that and during that impact of the
second plane, we were discussing getting in contact
with the control towers at the airports to find out if
this was indeed an accident or if it was an intentional
hit.  As soon as we knew the second one was hitting, we
knew that it was intentional and we were looking to
contact Office of Emergency Management to start to get
air support.
          We set up the command post at the guard house
at the underground garage entrance on the west side
just south of the Shearson Lehman building, in between
the two pedestrian bridges, one north and one south.
R. INGRAM
4
At the command post was Chief Ganci, myself, Chief
Nigro, for a period of time.  He left later on to go
towards the building or into the buildings.  Chief Turi
was there for a period of time.
          During the process there before and during
and shortly after the first tower came down, Chief
Downey had reported in there and operated there for a
few minutes.  Captain Fuentes reported there and worked
there for a few minutes.  Field comm.'s mobile van was
parked in the driveway there.  We proceeded to start to
stage Engine and Ladder companies on the down ramp into
the underground garage as a means of protecting them
from glass that was falling from the building.
          During this time we observed the civilians
coming down from the upper floors of the buildings,
whether they were jumped or pushed.  The Father was
there also, my mind is a blank on his name right now,
but he was there for a while before he went over to the
north tower.  Had the Police Department, emergency
service sergeant and two officers clear the garage for
secondary devices.  Chief Ganci called for their third
fifth alarm to be staged over on the Brooklyn side.  We
started to discuss setting the staging area two blocks
north of the buildings, mainly because of the falling
debris.
R. INGRAM
5
          The first building came down.  We all
evacuated the command post into the parking garage.
Took us about a good 15 minutes to get out of the
parking garage once we were able to determine where we
were and what was going on.  It had become pitch black,
pretty well debris filled on the entrance.  Several of
us had lights.  We were able to find an exit, made our
way out.  Chief Downey, Captain Fuentes, myself, Chief
Ganci and probably 20, 30, 40 other members of the
Department.  I don't know the identities of the ladders
and engines that were being staged there that was being
monitored by the officer of the command post.
          Captain Fuentes took a team, did the
secondary search down below in the underground parking
garage to make sure everybody that was down there made
it out.  Chief Downey sometime during that time
afterward made it out.  Made his way towards the
building that had collapsed, the south tower, to see
what can be done over there.  Chief Ganci and myself
were out on the street, trying to size up what was
going on.  Telling units coming in to stage two blocks
north, sending people to that location, get them out of
this collapse zone.
R. INGRAM
6
          Continued at that location on that entrance
to the underground parking garage, trying to coordinate
units coming in.  Trying to contact units on the
inside, reestablishing the command post.
          Second building came down.  Most of us ran
either south or north.  I ran north back underneath the
north pedestrian bridge, made it to the intersection,
at which time as the debris from the second building
started to overtake me, I dove under a Tower Ladder
that was parked on West Street, covered up, waited for
the debris to pass and once it was cleared, we all got
out, waited for the debris to lighten up, see where
everybody was, what was going on.
          We proceeded to start to reorganize there at
the intersection, trying to establish water supplies,
trying to establish Chief officers on the scene,
coordinate activities.  Other members of SOC that were
there at the time that I'm remembering now, Jack, of
SOC was there, one of the firemen that worked in the
office, works in the decon support unit, but he is
alive and his last name escapes me right now.  I can't
recall anybody else being present at that time whose
name stays with me that is not with us.
          Continued to operate at that intersection and
R. INGRAM
7
on the scene probably for somewhere between 35 and 40
hours.  Eventually leaving to set up the SOC base camp
on Chambers Street with the research and rescue
equipment and teams, trying to organize the search
units and giving them the special equipment that was
needed.  Worked on establishing the water connection
during that time also with the second fire boat on the
scene, getting the large supply hose down Vesey Street
from the marine unit to a manifold at the intersection
of West and Vesey.  Worked with Chief Cruthers at that
location.
          Going back to the beginning.  After we
arrived on the scene, shortly thereafter, right after
the second plane hit, I did have contact with hazmat
company one.  They arrived on the scene and I met them
and gave them orders to go to the first building with
radiological and chemical equipment to see if there was
any other secondary hazards involved with that plane.
          They went in, they proceeded to the first
tower, north tower, and I believe they reported in
there, based on information I received later on from 3
additional hazmat members who had responded from the
medical office, Bob Hunter being one of them, Armen
Koroghlian.  They told me later on they had made it
R. INGRAM
8
out.  They were told that the lobby command post at
hazmat was somewhere between the 10th and 30th floor.
          Starting to monitor conditions there.
Members who I recall working on hazmat one that day, I
did see and speak to Captain Waters, Captain Moody,
Lieutenant Crisci and all of the other 6 firefighters
working the tour.  A 7th Firefighter Anthony Castagna
had resource that day.  He is the only member of the
unit that is still alive.  Resource man's position is
to maintain position with the apparatus.
          When the second building came down, I met
additional hazmat people, Lieutenant Rybak, Firefighter
McArdle, Firefighter Borkowski, Firefighter Tralli,
Firefighter Gimbl, and one or two other members of
squad units.  I had them search out SOC units,
apparatus that was still on the scene, where they could
get chemical and radiological equipment, had them do a
perimeter search around both towers to see if there was
any radiological or any chemical agents that were in
the area.  All the reports came back negative.  Had
them continue to monitor for several hours.
          During that time, I heard from Lieutenant
Rybak that Chief Fanning had responded to the scene,
parked his car on Vesey I believe, on the east side of
R. INGRAM
9
the West Side Highway.  I didn't see Chief Fanning
myself, but I understood that he went into the lobby of
one of the buildings.  I don't know which one, reported
in there.  I assume he reported into the lobby of tower
one, the north tower, because that is where hazmat was,
so I'm assuming he would go there to communicate with
them.
          I don't know how much you want.
     Q.   Let me just ask one question.  You talked
about the underground parking garage where you guys
were staged.  What was the exact location of that, was
that next to the Trade Center or across the street?
     A.   It was across the street.  It was a two bay
parking garage with a concrete median in between the up
ramp and down ramp where the guard post was.  That is
where we set up the command post and the mobile command
board from the small field comm. van and it was in
between the north and south pedestrian bridges or
overpasses.  It was probably in the area of the Merrill
Lynch building, 2 World Financial Center, I believe is
where the parking garage was.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Okay.  Thank you very
     much.  That's the end of the interview.  The time
     is 1:40 p.m.
File No. 9110269
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER STEPHEN ELLIS
   Interview Date:  December 7, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
S. ELLIS
2
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Today is the 7th of
December, 2001.  The time is 4:06 p.m.  I am Battalion
Chief Robert Burns, Safety Battalion, New York City
Fire Department.  I am conducting an interview with --
          FIREFIGHTER ELLIS:  Firefighter Ellis, Engine
239, Firefighter First Grade.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  This is in regard to
the events that occurred on September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Steve, if you could, just tell us in your own
words what you saw on that day.
     A.   Well, we responded through the Brooklyn
Battery Tunnel.  We drove up West Street.  I was in
search of a hydrant.  We proceeded past both towers
going north on West Street, and I finally came across a
hydrant at the corner of West and Barclay.
          I tested the hydrant.  We hooked up.  We had
water.  Soon thereafter I found out that Engine 24,
which was located on Vesey Street and West Street,
needed to be augmented.  So myself, Firefighter Brown,
Firefighter Martin and Firefighter Wheeler had
stretched three-inch line from my rig down West Street
from Barclay to Vesey and hooked into Engine 24's rig,
and I had then gone back to my rig and started water
and augmented them.
S. ELLIS
3
          Other than that, I was not in any of the
towers.  I was there when the towers did collapse and
me and the rest of the members had gotten caught in the
huge dust cloud.  That's about all I can tell you as
the chauffeur.  The other members were, I understand,
going towards Tower 1 at the time, after they had
helped me stretch the three-inch hose to 24's engine.
That's about all I can say.
     Q.   So from the position you were in, did you see
the tower go down?
     A.   Yes.  I saw the second tower, not the first
tower, the second tower go down.
     Q.   Did you see any units, where they were, or
any units that were involved in the collapse or the
identity of any people that you saw?
     A.   No.  All I saw was 24's rig when I was
supplying them and going back to my rig.  In the
immediate vicinity of the tower, I didn't see any other
rigs.  Back by where I was parked on Barclay, I saw
Engine 235's rig.  But in the immediate vicinity of the
towers, I didn't see anybody else's rig that I can
remember besides 24.  I was concentrating on supplying
them.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Okay.  Great.  That
S. ELLIS
4
concludes the interview.  Thanks, Steve.  It's 4:10
p.m.
File No. 9110270
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER WILLIAM WHEELER
   Interview Date:  December 7, 2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
Wheeler
2
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Today's date is
     December 7, 2001.  The time is 4:52 p.m.  I
     am Battalion Chief Robert Burns, Safety
     Battalion New York City Fire Department.  I
     am conducting an interview with William
     Wheeler of Engine 239 in regard to the events
     of September 11, 2001.
          Bill, if you would, tell us in your
     own words what you saw that day.
     A.   We went through the tunnel, responded
through the tunnel, we went up to the West Side
Highway.  There was people all over the ground,
debris and whatnot.  We stopped in front of the
building and dropped this guy off -- I'm not sure
who it was -- and proceeded past the building down
to, I think -- I'm not sure what street it is.
Warren Street or Murray Street, one of them.  We
found a hydrant, stretched a 3 and a half inch line
off the back of the rig to 24 Engine who was parked
on the corner of Vesey and West Street, West Side
Highway.
     I went back to the Engine back on Warren
Street, I think, took my roll-ups, live saving rope
3
                      Wheeler
and whatever else, other tools, went back up to the
command post in front of 2 World -- the World
Financial Center.
     The building then fell down.  We ran back
towards underneath the pedestrian bridge on the West
Side Highway, the north one, and stayed there for a
period of time.  Then I was told by someone, the
Captain I believe it was, to go get a hand line and
stretch it into the basement of the World Financial
Center.  I went back to do that.  I stopped to wash
my eyes out and whatever.
     The other building started falling.  I ran into
a building on the corner of Warren Street and stayed
there for a while.  I came back out, went back to
the rig.  Then we went over to see if there was a
hydrant.  54 Engine was across the street from us.
We went, hooked it off the hydrant and started
working the gun on the top to see if we could get
the car fires out that were in the parking lot
across the street.  But then they told us to shut it
off because there was no water pressure.  They were
going to move a hand line in.
     Then I went back and we reconnected our 3 and a
half that we had stretched to Engine 24 originally,
4
                      Wheeler
because it was covered in the collapse.  We went to
stretch some more of it and got that all done, and
that's about it.
     Q.   When you said earlier that the building
fell down, that was the first building?  The south
tower?
     A.   The south tower.  That was the first.
     Q.   When you were on West Street stretching
lines, did you notice any units or the identity of
any people over there?
     A.   The only one I saw, 5 Truck was outside of
6 World Trade Center, the Customs building, with a
ladder up.  I don't know.  There was a tower ladder
out behind it.  I believe it was 12.  I'm not sure.
     I saw 54 Engine across the street, I saw 2
Truck on the West Side Highway facing underneath the
pedestrian bridge.  Let's see.  There is not that
much more I remember seeing.
     I saw 131 Truck when we first pulled up.  I saw
131 get out of their truck.  I saw 122 Truck when we
first pulled up, I saw them get out of their truck.
I saw the chauffeur for 16 Engine.  I talked to him,
because I used to work there.  And he was asking
me -- he was trying to back out of a block.  He
Wheeler
5
asked me how far he could stretch a 3 and a half and
I really didn't know.  I couldn't help him.  I was
doing something.
     And I saw the chauffeur of 235 after the
collapses asking where his company was, and I saw
231's rig was around the corner from our rig, and I
saw their chauffeur.  I didn't see any of their
guys.  And there was a guy that was with us the
whole time.  I don't know where that guy was from
though.  He was with us.  Like we used him to
untangle search ropes and stuff in the building,
after the second building fell.  I don't know if he
was from Rescue or where he was from.  He just came
out of the basement of the building and he was like
"Uhhh" and I don't know.
     I think that's about it.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Okay.  Thanks,
     Bill.
          The time is 4:56.  That's the end of
     the interview.
File No. 9110271
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
 FIREFIGHTER LIEUTENANT ANTHONY MANCUSO
   Interview Date:  December 7, 2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
Mancuso
2
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Today's date is
     the 7th of December 2001.  The time is
     4:13 p.m.  I am Battalion Chief Robert Burns,
     Safety Battalion New York City Fire
     Department.  I'm conducting an interview with
     Lieutenant Anthony Mancuso from Engine 239 in
     regards to the events of September 11, 2001.
     Q.   If you would, in your own words, tell us
what you saw on that date.
     A.   We had gotten the order to go through the
Battery Tunnel after the second plane hit.  We were
heading north on West Street.  I had told my
chauffeur we might as well move away from the
towers, because there was no place to hookup.  We
ended up getting to Barclay and West Street, and
that's where we hooked up.
     In the meantime, I had seen a lieutenant that I
knew, Lieutenant Joe Torrillo.  He was in the
street, on West Street.  He mentioned to me that
companies are having water problems.  We augmented
24 Engine, which was at Vesey and West, with the
help of the whole company.  We took roll-ups and
we're a command post company so we have extra radios
3
might be used in the towers either as an Engine
Company or to operate elevators.  We didn't know the
status of the elevator problems or anything in the
building.
     We were heading south on West Street and we
were told the staging area was at 2 World Financial
Center, where Merrill Lynch is.  We were in the
middle of West Street, just about in front of the
north tower, and we met Commissioner Feehan.  He had
asked us if we had any orders, and I had explained
to him that we already augmented one of the Engine
Companies.  And he asked me if I knew where the
staging area was.  I said, "Yes, I do."  He walked
south on West Street away from us.
     We started -- we were actually underneath
the -- we were just in front of the north tower,
heading towards the staging area.  Maybe, I guess,
about 20 seconds later he walked away from us and
one of my firefighters, William Wheeler, he says to
me, "I think the building is coming down."
     From what we could see, we couldn't see the
whole tower that was coming down.  We could just see
the facade coming off, and we backed up.  We were
                      Mancuso
and we took forcible entry tools.  We figured we
4
                      Mancuso
about in front of the north tower, in front of --
half of us were in front of one piece of apparatus
when it hit and a dust cloud came down.  We
couldn't -- I don't think anybody knows how long we
were in the dust to make any decisions about -- it
just seemed kind of confusing for a while, because
you couldn't see anything.
     Once the dust cleared, I was able to put all my
members -- we were pretty close to one another and
we all got back together.  We walked north again to
our apparatus at Barclay and West Street.  Once I
knew everybody was all together, I headed back.  We
headed back towards -- I know I was headed back
towards the pile, because some of the members were
saying they had trouble seeing.  I went back towards
the pile of the first tower that went down, not
finding anybody.  It was very quiet, silent.  Then I
walked over to the north tower.  Companies were
coming out of the north tower, but to this day I
can't remember the numbers on their helmets.  They
were saying they were told to leave the north tower.
     Civilians were coming out.  We helped them
across West Street and told them to head north.
Then it got pretty -- like there was nobody coming
5
                      Mancuso
out of the north tower.  I'm not really sure if we
got a transmission to stay away from the north tower
or it just so happens I backed up north again up
West Street and I was probably right about Vesey
Street or probably just a little north of Vesey
Street when the second tower came down.
     Again, after that came down we knew we had all
our members.  We went back to some of the rubble
from that and we had worked in that area for a short
time and then we were told to keep feeding a couple
of the tower ladders they had in front of 6 World
Trade.  They just didn't want anybody operating
there.  I think they were fearing about 7 World
Trade coming down.  So then we kept augmenting tower
ladders and staying away from that collapse area.
     I guess after that we were pretty well spread
away from the collapse area for the rest of the
evening.  I can't really think of anything that I
could say as far as companies or anybody else we saw
before they came down.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Thank you.
     That's the end of the interview.  It's
     4:19 p.m.
File No. 9110272
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER PETER BROWN
 Interview Date:  December 7, 2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
Burns
2
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Today's date is
     December 7, 2001.  The time is 4:30 p.m.  I
     am Battalion Chief Robert Burns, Safety
     Battalion of the New York City Fire
     Department.  I am conducting an interview
     with Peter Brown, firefighter from Engine 239
     in regard to the events of September 11,
     2001.
          If you would, Peter, just tell us in
     your own words what happened on that day.
     A.   My name is Peter Brown, Firefighter First
Grade, Engine 239.  We were sent on, I guess, a
second alarm.  We staged at the mouth of the
Brooklyn Battery Tunnel.  While we were there, the
second plane hit.  We got the word to go to the
tower and proceeded through the tunnel.  There was
some traffic in the tunnel and Steve Siller from
Squad 1 jumped on the rig.  We proceeded through the
tunnel.  Steve Siller jumped out on Liberty and West
Street.
     We proceeded past the two towers up to Barclay,
looked around.  The rig faced south, we grabbed a
hydrant and we started to stretch the 3 and a half
back to Engine 24.  They had water problems.  We
Burns
3
hooked up the 3 and a half, stretched it to like 6
lengths off us, hooked up, pulled some lengths off
of them, put them all together, augmented them,
hooked into 6 World Trade Center, into the sprinkler
system, went back to our rig, got some -- put our
masks on, I grabbed a cylinder and a personal search
rope and we started heading back south again on West
Street.
     All this time there were people jumping from
the building so we walked in the middle of the
street.  We walked as a unit down the street and the
Lieutenant, I think, saw Chief Feehan and he said
proceed to the staging area.  As we were walking,
the south tower started to collapse.  The command
said the south tower was coming down.  We looked up,
we saw the tower coming down.  We ran back north,
hid under the north pedestrian bridge behind -- I
hid behind Ladder 3, and the dust clouds, debris
cloud blew by us and hung around a while.  It was
pretty dark.  We sort of thought we were buried
underneath the bridge.
     It was me, Kevin Martin and another guy was there
who I thought was a Lieutenant, but I found out --
he was coughing.  I helped him buddy-breathe and
Burns
4
then he said he needed water so we ran around the
side of the truck and got a can.  I hit him in the
mouth with the can a little bit to get some of the
dirt and garbage out of his mouth.  Finally the air
cleared and we realized we weren't buried under
debris and we regrouped.  We got everybody together
and Lieutenant Mancuso said, "Let's get out of here.
This one's gonna come down."  He said, "Get
everybody together" and we went back to our rig.  It
was pretty much debris in our eyes and in our
mouths.
     We went back to the rig and sort of took off my
mask and I had dropped some tools while we were
running.  I guess the cylinder and the rope I had.
While we were there -- I was on Barclay, sort of
went around to this other building there.  It was, I
think, the DC37 building, DC 10.  Something like
that.  And while we were in there we went to the
bathroom to wash up, get the stuff out of our eyes,
the second building came down.  After that it was
pretty much an operation from a distance, I guess.
We didn't get in too close.  We stretched a few
lines.  There was cars on fire across the street in
the parking lot.  We stretched some lines and put
Burns
5
them out and we did a variety of minor things.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Okay that's it.
     That concludes our interview.  The time is
     4:34 p.m.
File No. 9110273
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
             EMT FRANK PUMA
   Interview Date:  December 12, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
F. PUMA 2
          MR. MURAD:  Today's date is December
     12th, 2001.  The time is 0730 hours.  I am
     Murray Murad of the New York City Fire
     Department.  I am conducting an interview
     with --
          EMT PUMA:  EMT Frank Puma of Division 1
     EMS.
          MR. MURAD:  The interview is being done
     at Battalion 8, the Kips Bay station,
     Station 13.  This is regarding the events of
     September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Can you please describe the events with
respect to that day?
     A.   Just from the collapse?
     Q.   Yeah, from the time the call came in,
from the beginning or whenever you were there, to
the World Trade Center.
     A.   Before the first plane even hit, me and
my partner -- our unit designation is 1 Adam, and
our street corner is Fulton and Church, it's our
89.  So we were about a block away, two blocks
away on Barclay between Church and Broadway
getting breakfast when we heard the first plane
hit.
F. PUMA 3
          After we heard the first plane hit and
felt the ground shake, I ran down to the corner
of Church and Park Place, looked up and I saw the
plane shooting out of the top of the towers.
That's when I grabbed for my radio and yelled
over the air, "1 Adam.  A bomb just went off in
the Trade Center."
          Me and my partner proceeded to grab the
ambulance, turn it around.  I jumped in the
passenger seat, and we drove right up to Vesey
and Church.  When we got there, all the people
started running out to us, and we were bombarded
with patients.
          Through that whole time before the
second plane hit, we were treating anywhere
between 7 and 15 different patients.  When the
second plane hit, me and my partner were in the
back of our ambulance.  We felt all the debris
come down, bouncing off of me, myself, my
partner, shooting inside the back of our
ambulance and rocking our ambulance back and
forth.  We shut the doors, jumped on top of all
of our patients.
          Once all that cleared up, once the
F. PUMA 4
ambulance stopped rocking, my partner looks at me
and says, "We've got to get out of here."  He
then proceeded to get into the driver's seat, and
we started making our way to NYU Downtown
Hospital, Beekman, to drop off our first set of
patients when we got flagged down for another
lady who got hit by the landing gear of the first
plane.
          We then proceeded to put her on a long
board as best as we could, because we couldn't
roll her because she had no back anymore.  We put
her on the long board and put her in the back of
the ambulance, dropped off our first set of
patients at Beekman Hospital.
          Then after that we took about a minute
to take some sterile water and clean off the back
of the ambulance, all the blood and everything.
From there we proceeded to go back into ground
zero.  We started our way back in, and we stopped
again on Barclay and Church Street, where we
helped another unit long board two more patients.
          We then proceeded to go back to Vesey
and Church where we originally were, but we were
stopped by the PD.  We noticed other ambulances
F. PUMA 5
going into Battery Park City, so we followed
them.  That's where we had our triage center set
up, one of our many triage centers that day.
          We were placed at the back of the line.
We left our ambulance running.  We went up to the
LSU truck to go get more supplies, because we
diminished the first set of supplies.  We started
walking back up towards West Street between
Liberty and Vesey when we heard them start
screaming over the radio that the first tower,
the south tower, was ready to fall.
          We started running because we looked up
and we saw the part of the tower coming down.  Me
and my partner started running, and I ran west
down Vesey Street and almost jumped right into
the Hudson River.
          Once all the smoke and debris cleared
up from the first tower collapse, I then got up
to look around for anybody that I knew.  I ran
into a couple people that I work with:  EMT Allen
Cruz, who was working the LSU truck that day, EMT
Joe Torres, EMT Mike D'Angelo and a couple other
faces that I don't remember their names.
          We then proceeded to go in to move all
F. PUMA 6
the ambulances that were parked on Vesey and West
Street and move them up further on North End
Avenue.  Then we heard them screaming over the
air that the second tower was ready to fall.
          I then proceeded to run back to my
ambulance, started up the ignition and grabbed
EMT Mike D'Angelo with me, and we started driving
off.  I made it as far as Chambers and West
before the cloud of smoke caught up to me.  When
the cloud of smoke caught up to me, me and him
were stuck, trapped inside of our ambulance for
approximately it felt like about ten minutes.  It
could have been anywhere between five and ten
minutes.
          I shut the motor off.  That way the
motor wouldn't take in any of the fumes.  We had
all the doors shut and all the windows closed.
We were stuck in the ambulance in pitch-black for
about ten minutes with all the smoke finding its
way in there.
          Once that cleared up, we got out of the
ambulance and walked back to Vesey and North End
Avenue to see if there was anybody else that we
knew around there.  We ran into EMT Joe Torres
F. PUMA 7
again and EMT Allen Cruz.  Then after that we
heard that we were starting to set our staging
area up further near the Chelsea Piers.
          We proceeded to run back to our
ambulance, and we took off.  We started making
our way up north via West Street where we stopped
off at North Moore and West Street where we ran
into a lot of the other EMTs and paramedics who
were operating at the scene.  I finally ran into
my partner, Orlando Martinez, after an hour and a
half of being separated from him.
          Then we heard them screaming over the
air again that there was a gas leak, everyone
keep pushing forward.  We then proceeded to get
back in our ambulance.  My partner, Orlando
Martinez, was driving the ambulance at that time.
I jumped in the passenger seat.  EMT Mike
D'Angelo jumped on my lap, and about ten other
EMTs and paramedics jumped in the back of our
ambulance and just started screaming to drive.
          We proceeded to go up to the Chelsea
Piers, where they had our staging area set up
there.  Once we got up there, we just started
looking for anybody who was from our station.
F. PUMA 8
Then at that point we started running into more
people from our station, EMT John Moritz, EMT
Kevin McKeon.  I don't remember all the names
offhand.  Then we just stayed there until we were
relieved by CISD at approximately 8:30 at night.
     Q.   Were you operating on any type of radio
frequency or how was the radio communications at
the time?
     A.   That morning I believe that both
Manhattan south and Manhattan central were
operating on the Manhattan central frequency, and
we were told to just stay on that one frequency
throughout the whole operation, intermittently
switching between Manhattan south and citywide.
     Q.   You did find your partner.  Your
partner was Orlando Martinez; right?
     A.   Yeah.  Me and him were separated for
approximately an hour and a half after the first
tower collapsed, because he ran north and I ran
west.
     Q.   Is there anything else you would like
to add to this interview?
     A.   Unless you want to know the details
about the stuff that I saw.
F. PUMA 9
     Q.   Well, if you would like to go into it,
you can.
     A.   I remember when we pulled up first,
because we were the first emergency unit on the
scene there, I remember counting at least six
bodies who jumped out from the 50th floor.  I
know one of the bystanders, one of the civilians,
as he was running out of the towers ran up to us
and told us, "You've got to help this guy."  I
turned to him and said "All right.  What
happened?  Where is he?"  He said, "He just
jumped."  I said, "From where?"  He said, "I
don't know.  It looked like the 50th, 60th
floor."  I said, "Brother, I'm sorry to say he's
dead.  Just keep running."
          I remember after the first tower
collapsed hearing over the EMS frequency all the
EMS members screaming, "Mayday, mayday.  Somebody
please help us.  We don't want to die in here."
I listened to that for about two, three minutes.
You had to lower the volume because you couldn't
stand listening to that anymore.
          I remember the F-16s and the F-18s
flying overhead before the first tower collapsed
F. PUMA 10
that we all jumped on the floor because we didn't
know what it was.  We looked up and saw it was
our guys, and we were like, okay, we can stand up
now and take control of this.
          I remember trying to run around trying
to find like a respirator or something to put on
our faces after the first tower came down,
because we had no equipment with us.  I remember
losing all of my equipment down at the Trade
Center before we left to drop off our first set
of patients, because I had all my stuff on the
outside.
          I just remember the sheer look of
terror that came over my partner's face, which
really got me nervous.  When I saw that, I knew I
was in trouble.
          I remember seeing some of the engine
companies go in.  I work downtown Manhattan, so I
was friendly with a lot of the firefighters who
were around there.  I remember seeing a lot of
them run in and not seeing them ever again.
          I knew all the Port Authority cops who
worked in the building, because, like I said,
that was my street.  That was my 89 was the Trade
F. PUMA 11
Center.  So we knew all the Port Authority cops
in there by first names.  We knew their first
names, their shield numbers.  When we walked in,
they knew our shield numbers.  We just like,
"Hey, how you doing?  How's your wife and your
kids?"  I remember reading about them in the
newspaper that they still haven't found their
bodies yet or seen that they were confirmed dead.
          I remember my parents' voice when I was
on the phone with them.  Right before the first
tower collapsed, I was on the phone with my
mother, telling her that two planes hit the Trade
Center, that I was all right and okay, that I was
still standing near the buildings but I was all
right.  Then we got disconnected, and that's when
the first tower came down.
          I didn't get a chance to call my family
until about two and a half hours after that.  I
remember the sounds of joy in my mother's voice
when she heard me, that I was still alive.
     Q.   That was important, communications to
the family.
          All right.  I'd like to thank you for
this interview.
F. PUMA 12
     MR. MURAD:  The time now is 740 hours,
and this concludes the interview.  Thank you
very much.
     EMT PUMA:  Thank you.

FILE NO 9110274
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT CHARLES GSCHLECHT
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 12 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

FOLLOWING
BATTALION
IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE CHARLES GSCHLECHT SHIELD NUMBER 5445 OF
GSCHLECHT
MR MURAD TODAYS DATE IS DECEMBER 12 2001 THE TIME IS 620 HOURS MY NAME IS MURRAY
MURAD OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK
OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT THIS INTERVIEW IS BEING CONDUCTED AT BATTALION LOCATED AT KIP BAY STATION THIS IS REGARDING THE EVENTS OF
SEPTEMBER 11 2001
CHARLES CAN YOU PLEASE GIVE US YOUR
PERSPECTIVE ON WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAY
ALL RIGHT WELL THE DAY STARTED OUT AS
USUAL YOU KNOW SIGN FOR THE EQUIPMENT PUTTING IT ON
ABOUT 34 STREET AND PARK AVENUE FORGET WHAT UNIT IT WAS BUT THEY SAID SOMETHING JUST HIT THE WORLD TRADE
CENTER FEW MINUTES AFTER THAT YOU HEAR OTHER PEOPLE SAYING THE SAME THING
SOMEBODY SAID THEY THOUGHT IT WAS PLANE AND THAT THERE WAS AN EXPLOSION SO ASKED MY PARTNER IF
TH TRUCK
LC
GC
CM TC MIR CSL
CM AND
TRAVELING UP FIRST AVENUE TO 34 STREET WHEN WE GOT TO

GSCHLECHT
HE WANTED TO TAKE THE JOB BECAUSE WE WERENT ASSIGNED JOB AND HE SAID YES OKAY WE ASKED FOR THE
ASSIGNMENT THE DISPATCHER GAVE IT TO US AND WE STARTED RESPONDING DOWN 34 STREET TO WEST STREET
HEADING SOUTH
ABOUT WHEN WE GOT TO CHAMBERS STREET BY THE
COLLEGE WE SAW THE SECOND PLANE HIT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER TOLD MY PARTNER SLOW DOWN AND WAIT TO SEE IF
THE BUILDING WAS GOING TO COLLAPSE RIGHT AWAY BECAUSE YOU COULD SEE IT SWAYING AFTER COUPLE OF MINUTES OF
WAITING WE DIDNT SEE IT COLLAPSE SO WE STARTED
HEADING
IN FURTHER
WHEN WE GOT TO VESEY AND WEST STREET THE
LIEUTENANT TOLD US TO SET UP SECOND STAGING AT WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER GUESS THEY WERE GETTING ALL THE
WALKING WOUNDED THAT WERE COMING OVER THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE TH BUSSES LINED UP TH THEN WERE TRIAGING PEOPLE MINOR BURNS GUESS THEN STARTED LOADING THEM UP ON CITY BUSSES REMEMBER RUNNING OUT OF EQUIPMENT SO HAD TO GO TO THE LSU VAN WHICH WAS ON THE CORNER
SAW PEOPLE JUMPING OUT OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER SAW FEW PEOPLE GUESS MAYBE THREE OR FOUR AFTER THAT COULDNT WATCH ANY MORE SO WENT

GSCHLECHT
BACK TOOK THE EQUIPMENT AND GUESS BY THE TIME GOT BACK DONT REMEMBER HOW LONG IT TOOK FOR YOU KNOW
THE BUILDING TO COLLAPSE OR WHATEVER BUT MOST OF THE PEOPLE WERE ALREADY IN THE BUSSES AND THEY WERE ALREADY
WHAT IS THAT PLACE
IM NOT TOO FIGURED IT WAS THE
BUILDING COMING DOWN TOLD MY PARTNER RUN AND
STARTED RUNNING AND THERE WAS ONE PERSON LEFT THERE CANT REMEMBER HER NAME BUT SHE WAS IN THE CHAIR SHE WAS STRAPPED IN THE CHAIR SO RAN BACK AND GOT HER AND JUST STARTED RUNNING ALSO THE PEOPLE STARTED RUNNING UP WEST STREET
LIKE DUST AND DEBRIS AND
TOWARDS THE HUDSON RIVER
NCRTH
GOT BACK ON WEST STREET AROUND MURRAY AND THERE WAS ANOTHER LIEUTENANT THERE CANT REMEMBER
HIS NAME BUT HE SAID THAT IT WAS ALL OVER THAT WE ARE GOING TO GO TWO BLOCKS IN TOLD HIM SAID LISTEN IF THE FIRST BUILDING COLLAPSED YOU DONT THINK THE SECOND BUILDING IS GOING TO COLLAPSE
THEN MAYBE ABOUT 10 MINUTES OF DECIDING
GOING UP LIKE GUESS TOWARDS THE ON 23 STREET CHELSEA PIERS
SO THEN HEARD GUESS SURE KNOW HEARD RUMBLE AND
GUESS THEY WERE OVERCOME BY STARTED RUNNING UP WEST
THEN STARTED RUNNING

GSCHLECHT
WHETHER OR NOT HE WAS GOING TO GO TWO BLOCKS IN THE
OTHER BUILDING COLLAPSED GUESS 10 20 MINUTES DONT KNOW THEN JUST STARTED RUNNING UP SOUTH
STREET COULDNT FIND MY PARTNER FOR ABOUT AND HALF HOURS BECAUSE INITIALLY WHEN TOLD HIM TO RUN HE STARTED RUNNING WITH ME AND THEN TURN AROUND AND HE IS GONE HAD NO IDEA WHERE HE WAS LIKE SAID AND HALF HOURS LATER FOUND HIM HE TOLD ME
THINK HE WAS WITH THE CAPTAIN AND CHIEF
DO YOU KNOW THE CAPTAINS NAME OR THE CHIEFS
NAME
YES CAPTAIN STONE HE HAD TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL HE WAS INJURED DONT KNOW WHAT PART OF THE BODY WAS INJURED
AND THE CHIEFS NAME
HIRTH CHIEF HIRTH GUESS THATS ABOUT
IT
AT ANY TIME WERE YOU ASKED TO SWITCH TO ANY FREQUENCY ON THE RESPONSE INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER YES WE WERE ALL ON CITYWIDE BUT HAD LOST
MY RADIO WHEN WAS RUNNING LEFT ALL MY EQUIPMENT IN THE TRUCK SAW THE RADIO FALL
RUNNING
JUST KEPT

TO ADD
GSCHLECHT
ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU THINK YOU WOULD LIKE
GUESS THATS ABOUT IT
MR MURAD OKAY TIME NOW IS 0630 WOULD
LIKE TO THANK YOU CHARLES FOR THIS INTERVIEW THIS WILL CONCLUDE THE INTERVIEW THANK YOU VERY MUCH
File No. 9110275
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        PARAMEDIC ALBERT SINGER
   Interview Date:  December 12, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
A. SINGER
2
          MR. MURAD:  Today is December 12, 2001.  The
     time is 0600 hours.  My name is Murray Murad of
     the New York City Fire Department.
     Q.   I'm conducting an interview with?
     A.   Albert Singer.
     Q.   Your rank and your command please?
     A.   Paramedic, Battalion 8, Manhattan.
     Q.   The interview is being conducted at Battalion
8, the Kip Bay station.  This is regarding the events
of September 11, 2001.  Al, can you please give us your
perspective on that day, on September 11?
     A.   Okay.  Just prior to the collapse, my partner
and I, Arty Gonzalez, and I were doing an RMA in the
Long Island Railroad when the first plane hit.  We were
just completing the RMA and when the second plane hit,
we knew that we had to respond.
          So we finished the RMA, we went to our
ambulance.  We had on the computer screen on the
ambulance, the job was already there to respond to the
World Trade Center.  We drove down the West Side
Highway.  When we arrived at the vicinity of the World
Trade Center, we were staged on the street on the West
Side Highway, approximately where the AMEX, number 3
World -- the AMEX building, 3 World Financial Center
was.
A. SINGER
3
          We were initially on the street.  We observed
the building, presumably the first World Trade Center,
on fire and people were jumping off the roofs.  About
10 minutes later, we were told to set up a staging
inside what I believe to be the American Express
lobby.  My partner and I, Arty Gonzalez, set up a
staging area.
          10 minutes later a co-worker of ours, Corey
Romanowski from BHS, showed up.  We asked him to remain
with us since he was unassigned.  About 10 minutes
later, two EMTs came running into the building saying
that the World Trade Center was collapsing, that we
should run.
          We proceeded out the American Express
building and we proceeded to the building directly
behind, which was 4 Financial Center, which is the
Merrill Lynch building.  We remained in that for about
5 minutes before we were told to evacuate because there
was a chance that the gas lines had been ruptured and
the building was in danger of exploding.
          Following that, we went on to Vesey Street,
where the commanding officer, whose name I don't
recall, suggested we head towards the waterfront, which
A. SINGER
4
might have been the safest place.  When we responded
there, we remained there for about 5 minutes until we
were redeployed up to one of the buildings on North End
Avenue where staging had been set up.  The MERV had
been brought up.
          We treated and triaged some patients in the
lobby of that building for about 15, 20 minutes.  When
it was deemed unsafe to remain there, every patient
that was in the lobby was evacuated, whether by MERV or
by ambulance, up to 23 Street.  We had the first
patient that we transported, so from that point on we
transported our patient to St. Vincent's Hospital.
     Q.   I just want to check with you.  On that day
what unit were you guys assigned to?
     A.   7 Young, Tour 2.
     Q.   Were you operating on any radio frequency?
Were you told to switch to any certain radio frequency
and what was the radio transmissions like during that
time?
     A.   We were switched over.  We were told to
switch over to Citywide, but we never had to utilize
the radio since the job was already on the KDT.
     Q.   Is there anything else that you can think of
that you would like to mention or --
A. SINGER
5
     A.   I would like to mention that I think Corey
Romanowski was a very heroic individual, he told us his
experience outside the building.  He had stepped
outside for a few minutes and he came -- he told us
later on that he was nearly killed by the collapsing
rubble of the building and he had dived under a fire
truck, which had the springs collapsed by the weight of
it while he was underneath it and he said that there
were a couple of EMTs that were running for cover for
the same fire truck and he said that they didn't make
it, so he considered himself very lucky.  He didn't
know which way to run because of the fire and smoke.
Eventually he did get out.  That was the most
remarkable thing I heard of the whole experience.
          MR. MURAD:  Okay.  Paramedic Albert Singer, I
     would like to thank you.  The time is 0605 hours.
     This concludes the interview of the World Trade
     Center.  Thank you very much.
File No. 9110277
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER ARTHUR RICCIO
   Interview Date:  December 10, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
A. RICCIO 2
          CHIEF KING:  Today's date is December
     10th, 2001.  The time is 1718 hours.  This
     is Battalion Chief Steven King, Safety
     Battalion, FDNY.  I am conducting an
     interview with Firefighter Arthur Riccio
     from Ladder Company 119.  He was on overtime
     as a chauffeur in Ladder 110 on September
     11th.
          This interview is regarding the events
     of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Artie, you can start whenever you want.
     A.   I came down Liberty Street.  When I got
to Church Street, the second plane hit.  We
didn't know it was a plane; we thought it was
helicopters going around.  I thought a helicopter
went into it.
          I stopped there.  People were running
at us.  It was like a movie.  The lieutenant was
saying, "Back up, back up.  Get out of here."  I
stopped.  I had people running all around me.
The women were losing their shoes.  One woman
lost a pocketbook.  We took the pocketbook, threw
it in the rig, and we gave it back to her about
three days later.  She got her pocketbook back.
A. RICCIO 3
          I backed out.  I went down Broadway.  I
came back around and wound up in the same spot,
Liberty and Church.  I went up to Vesey Street.
I parked the rig on Church Street.  We walked
down Vesey Street, and it was like total silence,
nothing.  It was eerie.  There were police cars
all parked on angles, metal going through their
hoods.  There was a tire of a plane on top of
one.
          We walked down Vesey, went into the
lobby.  Battalion 11 came to us and said we have
people trapped on the 31st floor.  In the lobby
was the Commissioner, Ganci, the Mayor was there,
Father Judge was there.
          We walked around to the A staircase.
The A staircase was loaded with people.  We
couldn't even get in there.  Battalion 11, I
don't know who it was, he came around and said,
"You know what, this elevator here goes to 16.
Let's take the elevator."  We asked, "Chief, do
you want to take the elevator?"  He said, "Yeah,
come on, let's go.  If only goes to 16, there
will be no problem."
          So we took it, went to 16.  We got out
A. RICCIO 4
and went into C staircase.  As we started walking
up, we were telling civilians to go to the left
and we were going to the right.  We walked up and
got to 21.  21 was locked.  Chief said, "Maybe
another floor is open.  Let's go up."  We got to
28.
          I was behind the chief.  I said,
"Chief, this is 21.  Where are we going?"  He
said, "You know what, let's go back down and
force the door."  We went back down to 21, forced
the door, we go in and searched all the
occupancies.  Nobody was in there.
          It was a little hazy.  The bathrooms
were charred.  I had to use my mask to look in
the stalls and make sure no one was in there.  I
came out.  It was like a horseshoe.  The last
office, I was in there with Lieutenant Meara to
and this kid Mike, a proby.
          All of a sudden we felt wind hitting us
in the face.  We thought fire was coming in.
Every door we went through , we broke the locks
so it wouldn't lock behind us.  As we go through
a door, we would hold the door closed.  We would
lay on the floor with our feet on the door,
A. RICCIO 5
holding it.
          I think 55 Engine was hooked up, and
they asked, "Where's the fire?  Where's the
fire?"  No fire.  Paulie Howard was saying the
whole building shook.  I was laying on the floor
saying, "Come on, this building -- it's got to
shake.  Everybody was swaying."  He said, "No,
this building's going down."  I said to him,
"There was a bomb in the basement.  It's not
going to go down."
          Every window was broken.  There was
smoke coming down the hall, and I was just in
that office.  I said, "You know what, I'll go
back in there.  I know the layout."  I go back
in, and the proby came with me.  We went on the
whole outside.  Every window was broken.  All the
blinds were burnt.  It was smoky.  So we came
back out.
          55 Engine said, "You need a line?"  I
said, "There's no fire in there.  I don't know
what it is.  I don't know what happened."  We
didn't know the building went down next to us.
          We passed the C staircase and got to
the B staircase.  We were standing right there,
A. RICCIO 6
and a chief, whoever he is, he saved our lives.
He was yelling, "Get out now.  Get out."  So we
started walking down.  We were lucky we were in
the B staircase.  They told us that the B
staircase was the only one that went out, the
only one that wasn't blocked with rubble.
          On about 18 I saw two civilians trying
to get a lady -- she must have had arthritis
because her hands were bent.  They were
permanently like this.  So I said, "Come on,
we'll throw her in a chair."  We put her in a
chair, and I took the back and a civilian took
the front.  Actually another civilian took my
halogen, and we walked down.  The rest of 110 was
behind me.
          We walked down.  I don't even remember
going down.  They told me it was stop and go.  It
was real slow going down.  I was kidding with
her.  She was crying.  I was telling her, "Don't
worry, Uncle Artie's got you.  We're going to get
out of here.  No problem."
          When we got down to the lobby, it was
like a bomb hit it.  I looked around and said,
oh, my God, every window is busted.  I was shaky.
A. RICCIO 7
My arms were shaking.  I was totally exhausted.
I looked for an ambulance, got her into an
ambulance, and I sat down in front of the
building on West Street.  I was sitting there and
I thought, my God, I can't move.
          Another chief, another guy who saved my
life -- I don't know who he was -- he kept on
telling me, "Go north, go north.  Get out of here
now."  So we started walking up West Street.  I
don't know even know how far we got.  A block?  I
know we walked under the first walkway, overpass.
I think we might have just got past there.
          The guy said to me, "Run!"  I turned
around, and it was a tidal wave of black coming
down on top of us.  I couldn't run.  I was done.
I knew that a two and a half foot wall in the
street was next to me.  I couldn't see it, so I
just rolled to it.  I tucked, I hit.  I couldn't
put my mask on.  I couldn't breathe.  I was
pulling cement out of my mouth.
          I finally found my mask and put my face
piece on.  It was full of cement.  I must have
laid there for five minutes, ten minutes, in
total darkness.  The next thing I knew -- I was
A. RICCIO 8
totally at peace, I swear to God.  I think all
our guys that died, they felt the way I felt.  I
was ready.  Total calmness came over me.  It was
unbelievable.
          The next thing I know, a guy from
122 -- I couldn't see his face in front of my
eyes.  The way you can't open your eyes in the
morning like this.  I had so much dust -- you
know the dust out there.
Q. Sure.
     A.   You couldn't open your eyes.  I just
saw 122.  The guy's lifting me up.  He walked me
out.
          After a while, a couple hours, I guess,
they went to start searching subways.  We
regrouped and got saws together and were cutting
gates of subways and going down.  They were
totally collapsed.
          I did see in the lobby, though, a
friend of mine, John Crisci, as I was walking in.
He was from hazmat.  They just got there behind
us.  I thought they were getting assigned behind
us.  He died.  They said they found him between
the two towers, so they must have sent him over
A. RICCIO 9
to go into the south tower.
          I think the people jumping was probably
my -- they were hitting the atrium as we were
going in.
     Q.   (Inaudible.)
     A.   Yeah.  We had a proby.  I told the guy,
"Don't look up.  Just put your head down and
let's go."
          I know Mike said he felt the whole
building shake.  We regrouped afterwards.  I
don't know if Mike ran into a building through a
glass door or something.  Another kid Mike, the
proby, he ran into the back of an ambulance.  The
ambulance was open.
          Over the Brooklyn Bridge, you saw black
coming down the side of the building.  It was
like drippings.  I said, "Lieutenant, what are
those windows, plastic?  What's melted on them?
It looks like plastic going down the side of the
building."  They said it was the jet fuel coming
down the side.
          Otherwise seeing anybody, that's pretty
     Q.   That's terrific.
much it.
A. RICCIO 10
     CHIEF KING:  The time is 1727 hours,
and this interview is concluded.
File No. 9110278
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER LANCE LIZZUL
   Interview Date:  December 10, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
L. LIZZUL 2
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  It's December 10th,
     2001.  The time is 5:18 p.m., and this is
     Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan of the New
     York City Fire Department Safety Battalion.
     I'm conducting an interview with Lance
     Lizzul of Engine 47 in the quarters of
     Engine 47.
     Q.   Lance, just relate to us anything you
saw on September 11th.
     A.   When the first plane hit, we heard the
alarms come in.  Watching the TV, we saw the
second plane hit.  They transmitted the second
fifth, and they sent us down.
          We came all the way down West Street
and parked the rig I guess around Warren Street,
and we started walking up the block.  I was the
chauffeur.  The rest of the members of the
company got together, and they started walking.
          I hooked up with another chauffeur.  We
walked towards the Trade Center, and there was a
rig on the corner that was hooked up, and he was
fine.  So we started walking towards the Trade
Center and actually stopped because of all the
jumpers and walked across West Street in front
L. LIZZUL 3
of, it looks like the Winter Garden, with the
atrium there.  We were standing by the command
center, watching what was going on.  Some of
these jumpers, I didn't look.
          After a while just standing there,
waiting to see what was going on, we heard some
bangs.  That made us look up, and that's when the
first Trade Center came down.  We ran through
that building and past the atrium and came out on
Vesey and walked back up to West, helping people
as we could all along.
          We just couldn't see anything.  So we
waited a little while until it cleared.  We
stayed on the corner.  The chief started chasing
everybody back north, and we started moving back.
Then we heard the rumbling from the second one
and just turned around and ended up staying all
the way down north for most of the next couple
hours.
     Q.   The building that you ran through after
the first collapse, which building was that?
     A.   That was one of the Battery Park
buildings.  It was just a building.
     Q.   This is all interconnected.
L. LIZZUL 4
     A.   Okay.  Right.  We ran right through the
command center, it was on the ramp going down,
and then the walkway was right next to that that
went into the building where the atrium was.  We
ran through that building along the side, along
the side of the atrium, and out the side door and
came out on Vesey.  There were people all over
the place on Vesey.
          Then when we came out, we walked up
Vesey Street.  The radios were silent.  There was
no talking on the radios.  Then I got to the
corner of Vesey and West, and the radio
communications started again.  I heard Engine 74
giving maydays.  I know with 74 there was 22 and
13 and they were all in the same building, 22 and
13, 74 and us.
     Q.   Which building?
     A.   It was supposed to be in the second
one.  We ended up, I believe, in the first one.
By mistake someone took them there.  I met our
control man, and then I saw him a little bit.  I
walked down the block a little bit.  He kept
going.  I stopped and was just staring at the
building.  I heard the rumbling of the second
L. LIZZUL 5
one, and it just came down and I just started
running again.
          That's pretty much it.
     Q.   Thank you very much for your help,
Lance?
     p.m., and this concludes the interview.
CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time now is 5:26
File No. 9110279
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
     LIEUTENANT RICHARD SKELLINGTON
   Interview Date:  December 11, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
                 R. SKELLINGTON                 2
          CHIEF BURNS:  Today's date is December
     11th, 2001.  The time is 3:45 p.m.  I am
     Battalion Chief Robert Burns, Safety
     Battalion, New York City Fire Department,
     conducting an interview with --
          LIEUTENANT SKELLINGTON:  Lieutenant
     Skellington, Engine 305.
          CHIEF BURNS:  -- in regards to the
     events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   If you would, Rich, tell us in your own
words what happened that day.
     A.   That morning we were responding to a
relocation to Engine 3 in Manhattan.  We
proceeded to go down Queens Boulevard.  Judgment
was made to go over the 59th Street Bridge
instead of going through the tunnel.  We went
over the bridge.  We got right in front of Engine
3's quarters, and we were assigned to the World
Trade Center box.
          We went down West Street, the West Side
Highway.  Halfway down we were around, I guess it
was Sixth Avenue, when we saw tower one came
down.  We proceeded to where we were supposed to
go.  It was Vesey and West, but we couldn't make
                 R. SKELLINGTON                 3
it down that far with the rig because there were
too many people coming up.  So we stopped at
Chambers.
          At that point we met Mykel Judge, the
priest.  He gave us a little prayer.  He gave us
HEPA masks, said he would see us down there.  We
started to get our gear, what we thought we would
need to take with them.  They were asking at that
time for more equipment, anybody coming down
bring anything you could bring.
          So instead we loaded up our back board
with extra stuff.  I took four Scott cylinders,
empty ones, the proby took two, and we took all
the other equipment that we might think we needed
and proceeded down the West Side Highway.
          We put the equipment down at least two
or three times because it was so heavy.  At the
fourth time I told them just take what we needed.
We were close enough that if anybody was coming
down they would see the equipment and they could
take it with them.
          As we proceeded down West Street, I was
about a half a block or three-quarters of the
block, with the proby, ahead of those guys.  We
                 R. SKELLINGTON                 4
saw many people jumping out the windows.  It was
about Barclay Street when I felt a rush of air
come in behind me.  I looked up.  I saw a
helicopter, and I was trying to figure out what
he was doing.  Then the second tower exploded and
started coming down.
          I told the proby to run.  I dumped my
two cylinders off my left shoulder.  I was trying
to get the other two off my right.  They got hung
up on my mask.  My chauffeur came running down
and said, "What are you doing?  Let's get out of
here."  I told him, "We'll be right with you,"
and we turned around and proceeded to evacuate
the area.
          I think it was Park Place West where we
made a left-hand turn and we jumped into a
building.  As we were running down the street to
Park Place West, we got caught in the cloud.
Then I saw firemen and civilians out in the
street that had gone out there after we heard the
rumble and everything falling down.
          The building that we were in shook.
Some glass broke.  We thought this building was
coming down.  It didn't.  That's when I went out
                 R. SKELLINGTON                 5
and started pulling people into the building, and
my chauffeur was just pushing them back, holding
them up.
          My other members, they got disoriented.
We found them later.  We called other units,
whoever we had.  That's it.
          We then went back to Chambers Street.
We went back to Chambers Street to figure out
where the command post was going to be.  ESU then
came out and told us that there was a bomb in
Stuyvesant High School, so we had to evacuate
that area.
          Then we came back, up to Chambers, and
we hung out there for most of the day and most of
the night until they sent us down to do some
digging.  Then we were relieved at the site and
went back to Engine 3.
     Q.   Okay, Rich.  Thanks for the interview.
          CHIEF BURNS:  The time is 3:50 p.m.
File No. 9110280
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER WILLIAM CHESNEY
   Interview Date:  December 10, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
W. CHESNEY 2
          CHIEF BURNS:  Today's date is December
     10th, 2001.  The time is 10:20 a.m.  I am
     Battalion Chief Robert Burns, Safety
     Battalion, New York City Fire Department,
     conducting an interview with --
          FIREFIGHTER CHESNEY:  Firefighter First
     Grade William Chesney assigned to Engine
     Company 309.
          CHIEF BURNS:  This is in regards to the
     events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Bill, if you would, just tell me in
your own words what happened that day.
     A.   Okay.  We were assigned to relocate
Engine 309 to 33 Engine in Manhattan.  That would
be after the first tower had fallen.  After
coming over the Manhattan Bridge into Manhattan,
we were notified by the dispatcher to I believe
the Deutsche Bank, which had I believe been set
afire or there was a collapse there.  I'm not
sure what the assignment was.  I'm fuzzy on that.
          We proceeded to the West Side Highway.
We made it up to Liberty next to the second World
Trade Center before it fell.  We didn't exit the
engine.  It was still running at the time.  We
W. CHESNEY 3
heard popping, people, crowd, screaming.  The
first tower had already fallen, so everything was
very unclear due to visibility, bad visibility,
because of smoke and ash.
          We visually saw the beginning of the
first tower crumble, so the engine turned off on
Liberty and made its way over to Albany Street.
The tower had fallen.  Our engine company then
exited the engine and proceeded over and
attempted to help out in any way they could with
civilians or Fire Department personnel who needed
assistance.  Then we had other companies join us
that were scattered.
          There was no water pressure downtown at
the time.  It took a while for water to get to
the fires, Marine 2.  We were down by Liberty
close to the water by Gateway Plaza.  We were
assigned to put a fire out on the eighth or ninth
floor of Gateway at the time.  We went up there
with hoses.  We were drafting water from Marine 2
from a three and a half.
          After that fire was out, we then
proceeded to put out additional pockets of fire
close to second World Trade.  I believe it was
W. CHESNEY 4
adjacent to the Vista Hotel and three World
Trade.
          For the rest of the day all we did was
assist rescue operations, basically.  That's
basically the fundamentals of what happened.
     Q.   Did your unit get there prior to the
second tower collapsing?
     A.   Yes, we did, yes.
     Q.   Where were you when the second tower
collapsed?
     A.   I'm believing that we actually made it
over towards the pedestrian bridge close to
Liberty off the West Side Highway, because I
believe the Deutsche Bank is adjacent to the
second world tower or a block off.  I'm not
positive.  That's where our assignment was.
     Q.   When you guys got there, did you see
anyone or any companies that you can identify?
     A.   No.  Due to the poor visibility, it was
very tough to see in front of your face.  With
the smoke down there, the ash, it was very
difficult to see anything.  Basically I just saw
through the fog on my end -- I'm not speaking for
anybody else -- was first and last of the clouds
W. CHESNEY 5
there were people running here and there.
          There was no sense of direction.  There
was no way to know what anybody else was doing,
so we just kept ourselves together and kept a
level head and just tried to make the best of the
situation, help out any way we could.  That was
it.
     Q.   Okay.  Great.
          CHIEF BURNS:  That concludes the
     interview.  It's 10:25 a.m.
File No. 9110281
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER STEVEN WRIGHT
   Interview Date:  December 10, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
S. WRIGHT
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today's date is
December 10th, 2001.  The time is 12:18 and this is
Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan, Safety Battalion of the
New York City Fire Department.  I'm conducting an
interview with Steven Wright of Ladder 16.
     Q.   Steve, please give us anything you have about
the events on September 11th.
     A.   Sure.  Okay.  I remember being in quarters
here when somebody said a plane crashed at the World
Trade Center.  We turned on the TV.  We saw the hole in
the building.  We thought it was just somebody, a bad
driver, a bad airplane driver or something went wrong.
As we watched and we saw the second one hit the
building, that's when we knew, we figured, everybody
thought it was a terror assault.  We had a bad feeling
about this.  So now the second plane hit and we get
called, I think, on the fifth alarm for the second
building.
          So we leave quarters.  We go down.  We're
following 13, I guess, 22 and the 10th Battalion now.
We get down West Street.  We see all the smoke.  When
we report there, we park about, I guess, two blocks
north of the walkway on West Street and we start
walking down.  There was a guy from 35 Truck, Shea.  He
S. WRIGHT
3
borrowed one of our masks.  I remember that.
          As we're walking down, we're watching.  We
see people jumping from the north building as we're
walking under the overpass, the walkway.  Then we
reported to the staging area, which was directly across
from the north tower, which was 2 World Financial
Center, the Merrill Lynch Building.  We were standing
in the staging area at the apron of a loading dock that
went underneath that building.  The engine company was
on the north side of the ramp.  The truck company was
on the south side of the ramp directly across from the
north tower.  They started upping it and about 20 feet
was the ouija board, as they call it.  Anyway, I
remember standing there looking up and looking at the
flames, seeing people jump.  Again, it was about 20
people that jumped while we were standing there.  I
remember being told as we were walking down there may
be a report of a third plane coming in, and I didn't
hear anything else about that.
          So they gave some assignments to engine
companies and truck companies.  13 was the truck
company directly ahead of us.  They got the last
assignment.  I'm not sure which building they went
into.  But 16 was the last truck company there and we
S. WRIGHT
4
were waiting for the assignment.  I remember standing
like two, three feet away from the overhead doors that
were open in that loading dock, and I had my bunker
gear on with the tools on the side, mask on the side.
I stayed close to the building because I was taking
debris.  I didn't know.
          So I guess it was after about ten minutes, 15
minutes after 13 got their assignment, I remember
looking around and I heard this sound and I looked up
and it was the south tower crumbling, coming down.  We
all just took off, turned around and ran straight to
the back of the loading dock underneath 2 World
Financial Center.  Moments went by.  Smoke had come in
the loading dock, a good amount at the beginning, but I
had ended up in the back and it wasn't that bad back
there.  So then people were calling out to try to find
other firefighters and stuff.  I remember walking back
in.  I found all my guys except one.  I couldn't find
one.  He went off and went out the back of the
building.  He made his way out the back.
          So we ended up, the rest of us, coming back
out of the loading dock to the front of that building
where we were standing and looking for people who were
hurt and looking a little bit scarred but they were
S. WRIGHT
5
walking around.  There was one EMS guy.  He was about a
400-pound guy.  He was laying down on the ground.  One
of the guys found a gurney, I guess, his gurney that he
had.  There were about 15 of us there.  We picked him
up, put him on the gurney.  My guys went to push him up
the apron to the sidewalk, which was closer towards the
north building, which didn't collapse yet, but my
officer said, no, we're going to bring him back down
the ramp to the back, to the loading dock, out the back
of the building.  That turned out to be a good move.
          So we went to the back, picked him up on top
of the loading dock there in the back about four feet.
Again, there were like 15 of us, so 400 pounds wasn't
too bad.  We found we had to go up like another two
levels to get out the rear of the building that goes
back towards the marina.  So we found an elevator.  Two
of us got on the elevator.  I was one of them and
another fireman with this heavy guy, the EMS worker on
the stretcher.  The other guys walked up.  The elevator
went down.  What a mistake!
          So now it was just me and another fireman.
We were in the basement with this guy that's 400 pounds
and the elevator wasn't working correctly.  So good
thing we got off.  I remember we were looking for a
S. WRIGHT
6
stairwell so we could get this guy up, and I remember
saying how did this happen, me and this other fireman
with this 400-pound guy.  We couldn't budge.  We tried
getting him up the stairs.  It was like we got him up
three stairs, let alone three floors.
          So I remember looking around for the
stairwell and all of a sudden the building started
rumbling and the lights went out for about ten
seconds.  I turned my light on and I'm just thinking,
I'm hoping this building isn't collapsing.  I thought
it was the tower coming down across the highway, but I
didn't know for sure.  For about ten seconds the
building rumbled and then it stopped, and I felt very
relieved.
          I called for some more assistance to see if
we could get this guy out, and then my officer was
telling me, Steve, come on out of the basement because
I think I smell something burning in this building much
lower.  So me and this other guy, that's when we tried
to lift him up.  We couldn't lift him up.  So finally
we got some help.  Within a couple minutes we got some
more help and we got him up, I think, 43, some guys.
The north tower did come down.  That's what made that
building rumble like that.  We came out the back.  I
S. WRIGHT
7
don't have that EMS worker's name.  The other fireman
that was with me, he was all right.  I met him the
other day.  His name is Gary.  We put him on a PD boat
and they took him to a hospital in Jersey or Staten
Island.
          After the collapse, we were walking around.
We started heading south, near the marina, and from
there we started to help stretch a line from one of the
boats for about two blocks.  We stretched it and that
took a little while.  Then I remember we walked back up
alongside of the marina.  We headed north again.  I
don't know what street that is.  I was with the
officer.  I was trying to find out who to report to,
what was happening, and nobody had a clue.  So it was
like we were on our own.
          After that we waited there for a little while
and then we made our way back into 2 World Financial
Center where we came out.  We went back through the
back of the building, back through the loading dock,
back out to the front, and we started climbing the
metal, the debris field.  We started looking for
people.  We didn't see anybody.  Well, the people that
we did see, they were crushed.  So other than that, I
really don't --
S. WRIGHT
8
     Q.   When you were standing fast at the staging
area, did you hear any Maydays or anything that would
indicate the collapse, any warning signs of the
collapse?
     A.   No.  I didn't notice any Maydays, not that I
can remember.  But I know there were two different
channels, one for each tower.  I think each tower had a
different station.  Anyway, it seemed to be a little
foggy.
     Q.   Did you see anything looking at the building
that indicated --
     A.   No.  I just remember seeing just the flames,
and when I heard the noise, I was already looking
away.  But I remember talking to some other guys.  They
remembered seeing the floors being blown out, I guess,
when each floor collapsed on each other.  I didn't see
that.  I heard the sound.  I looked up.  I saw the
building collapsing and just like being pulverized, the
smoke, and I probably looked at it for about a second
and I just took off, if a second.  Once I saw that, I
was like, whoa, get out of here.
Steve.
BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Well, thank you,
FIREFIGHTER WRIGHT:  Okay.
S. WRIGHT
9
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time now is
12:28 and this concludes the interview.
File No. 9110282
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER VANDON WILLIAMS
   Interview Date:  December 11, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
V. WILLIAMS
2
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Today's date is
December 11th, 2001.  The time is 1:14 p.m.  I'm
Battalion Chief Robert Burns of the Safety Battalion,
New York City Fire Department.  I'm conducting an
interview with --
          FIREFIGHTER WILLIAMS:  Firefighter Vandon
Williams, Battalion 49.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  This is in regards to
the events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   If you would, just tell us in your own words
what happened on that day.
     A.   I was just finishing a 24-hour tour on the
10th, which is my wedding anniversary.  I was looking
for my relief to come in at the time that the first
plane hit the Tower 1.  I watched it on television from
our quarters here in Astoria.  Then when the second
tower was hit, the signal came in for us to proceed to
a staging area by the Midtown Tunnel.
          So, knowing that I would not be relieved in
time, I just decided that it was best that I go on and
handle this event.  I proceeded to the staging area at
the Midtown Tunnel.  We were there for, I guess,
approximately 30, 35 minutes, until the Midtown Tunnel
was cleared out, and then we proceeded through the
V. WILLIAMS
3
Midtown Tunnel to the west side, going down to the area
of West Street and Vesey.
          Upon getting to the west side, we were able
to park our apparatus, and I believe we might have had
about ten to 15 units as a convoy from Queens.  We
proceeded and we parked our car about a block or two
blocks north of Chambers and West Street, and we
proceeded by foot toward the command post at Vesey and
West.  I got as far as a block north of Chambers and
West and I was told by my Battalion Chief, Chief Mike
Keenan, to make sure that all the units that were with
us were accounted for and he proceeded to go toward the
command post, and once I had checked everybody off that
had come with us, then I would proceed down to the
command post.
          So one block north of Chambers, I stopped and
turned around and proceeded to count off the companies
that came in.  I guess I was doing that for about a
good five or six minutes, about five minutes or so, and
then I heard a rumbling.  As I turned around, I saw
people and some firefighters coming toward me and I
looked up and I could actually see Tower No. 1 coming
down.
          So at that time I tried to get myself as
V. WILLIAMS
4
close to -- there was a police tow truck on my side,
looking at the Hudson River.  There were two police tow
trucks parked there.  So I just covered, bent next to
one of the tow trucks and bent my head down until the
smoke cleared.  For me the eerie thing was not hearing
any communications on the radio, any transmissions,
anything, until most of this acrid, black smoke had
cleared away, and then I could hear the sounds of our
pass alarms going off around.  Once most of the black
smoke had kind of lightenend up and we were still in a
fog-type state or a fog-type atmosphere, I tried to
proceed down toward Vesey and West, where my Battalion
Chief Mike Keenan was.
          So I got to meet him.  Around Murray and West
we met up.  We proceeded to set up a secondary command
post at Chambers and West Street.  That was the call
that was given out to the units, that there would be a
command post set up at Chambers and West.
          Then we proceeded down toward Vesey Street.
We proceeded southbound on Vesey Street until we came
to West and Vesey, and at that point Chief Keenan
started to operate at the north side of 6 World Trade
Center, the U.S. Customs Building.  The pedestrian
bridge at that point, that I could look at, was already
V. WILLIAMS
5
down and completely destroyed.  I was standing on the
north side of the pedestrian bridge listening to Chief
Keenan as he went up and tried to get onto one of the
levels that was still standing on the Customs Building,
doing communications with him and finding out what
companies that we had that were able to go forward and
help with some of the extinguishment as far as an
engine company and a truck.  I don't know the names of
the companies that helped us to go work at that, but
there was a truck company and an engine company that
were being put into action to work on the Customs
Building.
          At that time I also met the 14th Division
Chief, a Chief McNally, and for the most of my duration
I was there operating with him doing communications on
the tactical and the channel for the Chiefs, going
between both of them to try to ascertain who we had,
what we could find in that area.  I believe I worked
with Chief McNally for a couple of hours before I was
released to go with Chief Keenan.
          We proceeded to go around the pedestrian
building and try to go south toward the World Trade
Center No. 1.  In order to get there, we had to walk
around the World Financial Center building, the
V. WILLIAMS
6
American Express Building, toward the water, which
would be going west toward the Hudson River.  We were
able to walk around the building and come out around
the Winter Garden building, and at that time we were
now just looking at what was left of the World Trade
Center No. 1.
          We proceeded to walk over some of the metal
and steel beams and stuff and we were able to get to a
point where we were high enough to see a couple of
mounds of just twisted metal, and we stood there while
there were groups of firefighters, I'm not sure what
units they were, that were proceeding down the mound
and trying to get up to the second level of the mound
to start our searches.
          At that time I was able to see two
civilians.  One was standing up on the mound and
firefighters were able to get to him and another one,
and we were able to bring them out in the Stokes
baskets down through the mound.  It could have been an
hour, hour and a half we were doing that before we were
ordered to move away from that part of Tower No. 1
because there was an imminent danger of collapse of
World Trade Center No. 5 and 7.
          So he proceeded to take us from that area and
V. WILLIAMS
7
we proceeded back from that part of the World Trade
Center No. 1, all units, Chief Keenan and I and some
other Battalion Chiefs there.  I know Battalion 46,
Chief Turner was there.  We operated also under the SOC
command of Chief Seigel looking over those areas of
Tower No. 1.  Once they recalled us from that area, we
proceeded back over to the area where we started at,
Vesey and West.  I was there approximately 15 hours.  I
left at 11:00 that evening.
          Part of my duties with the 49 and the 14th
Division, I was also used to do logistics and command
with Deputy Chief -- I don't want to say his name
wrong.  It will come to me.
          Well, I'll say this.  This happened to be
closer toward the evening.  I guess it was close to
about 4:00 or 5:00 o'clock, as it started turning more
toward the sunset.  We had been working on the north
tower and we proceeded back over to West and Vesey.  At
that time I was able to see Chief Fellini talking with
Chief McNally and other Chiefs on the scene that came
in.   But I was able to do liaison.  I was there to set
up for what other units that came in in the staging
area and I worked as the aide that proceeded to tell
what units would go in and what areas the Chiefs wanted
V. WILLIAMS
8
to work with.  I can't think of that Chief's name, but
I liaisoned with him.
          Before the night was over with, I was one of
the firefighter liaison officers in the temporary
Office of Emergency Management, and I worked with Chief
Cantley, I think, if I'm not mistaken, in the OEM
office from about 10:00 until midnight, and at that
time they released the 49 Battalion to come back to
Queens.  Basically, that's what I did.
          Outside of seeing some carnage and being able
to see at least us pull two civilians and bring them
out, and they were alive when we brought them out, much
of my recollection, outside of what I thought was
papers and stuff coming out of Tower No. 1 while it was
still up, I now realize there were some falling bodies
just coming down.  That's the extent of what I
remember.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Okay.  Great,
Vandon.  Thanks for the interview.  The time is 1:27
p.m.
File No. 9110283
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER FRANCIS NASH
 Interview Date:  December 11, 2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
                                                 2
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Today's date is
     December 11, 2001.  The time is 11:13 a.m.  I
     am Chief Robert Burns, Safety Battalion of
     the New York City Fire Department.  I am
     conducting an interview with Firefighter
     Francis Nash, Engine 260, Firefighter First
     Grade, and this is in regard to the events of
     September 11, 2001.
     Q.   If you could, in your own words, Frank,
would you tell us what happened on that day.
     A.   We were responding, Engine 260, to the
World Trade Center, going through the Midtown
Tunnel.  We were heading south on the West Side
Highway where we parked our rig and we proceeded to
walk down West Side Highway to the World Trade
Center.  The number 2 World Trade Center was already
collapsed as we were responding and as we were
walking to the World Trade Center number 1, we were
approximately 100 yards away when the building
number 2 collapsed.
     At that time, we ran for safe cover.  And
that's the story.
     Q.   You said you were 100 feet away.  Do you
know --
Nash
                   Nash
A.   I mean yards.
3
     Q.   100 yards.  Do you know what direction you
were in?
     A.   We were north of the tower, by Barclay
Street.  Between Barclay and Vesey.  Maybe a little
more than 100 yards between there.  Barclay and
Vesey Street.
     Q.   When the second tower came down, did you
see anyone?  Did you see any units?
     A.   I saw people jumping out of the building.
I didn't see any units.  I saw, you know, when the
building came down I was with other companies from
the 45 Battalion and we were all retreating at the
same time, and we got caught in the huge dust cloud
for a few minutes, and then we went back to go look
for companies until another chief told us to go
back.
     When we went looking for companies, we saw some
damaged rigs.  I can't tell you which companies they
were.  Then we were ordered by a chief to leave the
area.
     Q.   You said you were there prior to the
collapse.  Did you hear any transmissions on
someone's handy-talkie or any radios just prior to
Nash
4
the collapse?
     A.   No.  I didn't have a department radio.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Okay.  Thanks,
     Frank.  That concludes our interview.  It's
     11:16 a.m.
File No. 9110284
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER JAMES POWERS
 Interview Date:  December 11, 2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
Powers
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today's date
     is December 11, 2001, and the time is
     11:25 a.m.  This is Battalion Chief Dennis
     Kenahan from the Safety Battalion of the Fire
     Department of the City of New York.  I'm
     conducting an interview with James Powers,
     Firefighter First from Engine 35.  The
     interview is taking place in the quarters of
     Engine 35.
     Q.   James, just tell us the events as you
remember them on September 11th.
     A.   The morning of September 11th I arrived at
Engine 35 to get into uniform to go to an
educational day.  Before I left, the TV showed us
the first tower smoking and fire.  We didn't even
know what it was before I left to go to the Rock,
Randall's Island.  By the time I got to Randall's
Island, the Lieutenant conducting educational day
told us that a plane had hit the first tower and
that we might be going back to our companies.  He
didn't know yet, but he was going to start
educational proceedings.  As soon as he said that,
the second plane hit the second tower.  Within
minutes we were dispatched back to our companies.
Powers
3
     I reported to Engine 35 and reported in to
Lieutenant Whalen.  Lieutenant Whalen put me in the
Engine and said, "Right now you're going to be our
fifth man in the engine."  We took roll call of the
units that had already been sent here as a staging
area and within 15 minutes of being brought back,
maybe even ten minutes of being brought back to the
firehouse Engine 35 was dispatched to the World
Trade Center.
     We were told by the dispatcher to use the West
Side Highway and we went across 125th Street and we
went down.  Myself, firefighters Lowrey, Vanname,
Fischer, and Keith Schroeder were on the rig with
Lieutenant Whalen.  We also had Lieutenant Patten
and Battalion Chief Horan on 35's rig.  We reported
in down at West Side Highway, West Street, right
above Barclay Street, and we ran into battalion
chiefs there.  We had heard on the radio the first
tower collapsed.  We heard somebody on the
department radio calling for help, saying he was
trapped.
     We were told that we were going to be going
into World Trade Center number 1, the north tower
building, because it was still standing and there
Powers
4
was still fire.  When we got to the battalion chiefs
that were on West and, I believe, Barclay, they
said, "Okay.  Make sure you've got everything, your
roll-ups.  We're still going into this tower number
1 or World Trade Center number 1."
     At that time there was heavy black smoke
pumping from the top floors of the tower.  You could
see the collapse dust and stuff around the other
buildings, and the top of the tower was just blazing
black smoke.  On our way to the building, we had
just passed Vesey Street, we were near the
pedestrian bridge when you heard the rumble and the
roar of the building and at which point we all
looked up.  Nobody really moved for a second.  The
tower began to collapse and we all ran back up the
West Side Highway.  We ran with our gear still on.
We dropped our folds, roll-ups and ran hard up West
Street.
     I made it to, I believe, either Murray or Park
Place, wherever the high school was, and the
collapse, the dust and the debris had already caught
up to me and was actually pushing me, and I dove
into the left of that street, whether it was Murray
or Park Place.  I don't know where it was, but I
Powers
5
dove in there and somebody pulled me into the high
school and when I got into the high school there
were already firefighters and Police Officers in
there.  When I was there I realized that I didn't
have any of the guys that I was with with me, so I
went back out onto that street.  But when I did, I
was immediately lost in the black dust and I
couldn't even see my way to get back into the
building that I just came out of.  I put my face
piece on and started breathing the air, but I
realized the face piece was contaminated and I was
sucking some stuff in.
     I went onto the West Side Highway and slowly
walked through the black and gray dust heading back
towards where we were to see if anybody was still
there, to see where everybody was.  When I got back
to where I think we were, which was below Vesey but
above the pedestrian bridge, there was a couple of
people just completely covered with dust and I just
brushed them off and chased them back to go north on
the West Side Highway.  I did run into one of my
guys, Keith Schroeder, and asked him where everybody
was and he said he didn't know.  He didn't know.
     We stayed together and then we saw Billy
Powers
6
Vanname, our chauffeur, and we asked him about our
lieutenant, Lieutenant Whalen and also Lieutenant
Hadden and Chief Horan, who had gone ahead of us
towards the tower, and they were in front of us
while we were walking towards it.
     We then found our Firefighters Fischer, Lowrey
and our Lieutenant Whalen, and we started picking up
our folds to go down towards fire.  There was fire
on the streets, there was fire in the cars.  And
then he realized the roll-ups were gonna do us no
good, so we dropped our roll-ups and we started
looking to help people and I was -- I had breathed
in a whole bunch of stuff and I was starting to get
dizzy and I could feel myself trying to breathe, but
I couldn't get any air into where I was and I
started getting lightheaded.
     We helped a couple more people back up the West
Side Highway.  We split up, I stayed with Billy
Vanname.  The other guys went down into underneath
the pedestrian bridge with a line they had to try to
put out fire.  We then found Lieutenant Hadden and
he told us that Chief Horan was okay.  He told us
the tower came down on top of guys in the hotel and
we were gonna try to get to that.
Powers
7
     Maybe 15 minutes later I was completely
overcome by all the dust I had already breathed in
and I could no longer operate and I was starting to
pass out.  I don't think I passed out.  Somebody
says I did.  I was treated by a couple of EMT's and
some firefighters and they took me back up the West
Side Highway to near Murray Street and we were
sitting there and then somebody said that there was
a major gas leak in one of the buildings and we had
to run from there, so everybody started running
again.  As I tried to run, I knew I could no longer
run.  So I was loaded onto a green golf cart and I
was taken to St. Vincent's Hospital and I was in and
out.  I could breathe in, but I felt like I wasn't
getting any air, and I was taken to St. Vincent's
Hospital approximately 45 minutes to an hour after
my arrival at the World Trade Center.
     Q.   That's it?
     A.   That's it.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Thank you,
     Jimmy.  The time now is 11:33 and this
     concludes the interview.

FILI 9110285
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW LIEUTENANT WILLIAM WALL
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 10 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELIZABETH SANTAMARIA

WALL
BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN TODAYS DATE IS DECEMBER 10 2001 THE TIME IS 640 AND
THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF DENNIS
SAFETY BATTALION OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF
THE CITY OF NEW YORK IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH LIEUTENANT WILLIAM WALL OF
ENGINE 47 IN THE QUARTERS OF ENGINE 47 LIEUTENANT JUST ACCOUNT FOR US WHAT
HAPPENED ON SEPTEMBER 11TH
WE WERE ASSIGNED AS ADDITIONAL UNITS ON
THE FIFTH ALARM FOR THE SOUTH TOWER WE NEVER RECEIVED TICKET FOR IT UNTIL WE YOU KNOW THERE
WAS ONE WAITING FOR US IN QUARTERS WE GOT DOWN AND ACCORDING TO THE VOICE ALARM WE WERE SUPPOSED TO REPORT IN TO THE COMMAND POST IN THE SOUTH TOWER
SO WE MADE OUR WAY DOWN AND WE PARKED THE RIG ON APPROXIMATELY VESEY AND WEST STREET WE GOT ALL OUR GEAR TOGETHER WE TOOK SOME EXTRA GEAR EXTRA BOTTLES WE TOOK OUR OXYGEN CYLINDER FROM OUR EMS
KIT AND WE STARTED HEADING DOWN TOWARDS THE SOUTH TOWER WE MADE IT AS FAR AS WE WERE ON THE EAST SIDE OF WEST STREET AND WE MADE IT PAST THE US CUSTOMS BUILDING BUT WE COULDNT GO ANY FURTHER ON THE EAST SIDE SO WE CROSSED OVER ONTO THE WEST
KENAHAN

WALL
SIDE OF WEST STREET AND WE MADE IT WE MADE OUR WAY DOWN THE WEST SIDE TO THE COVERED OVERPASS AND WE CROSSED UNDERNEATH THE COVERED OVERPASS WHICH WAS JUST OPPOSITE THE HOTEL WHERE WE WERE
INFORMED WE ASKED POLICE OFFICER WHERE THE COMMAND POST WAS HE SAID HE THOUGHT IT WAS IN THE LOBBY OF THE HOTEL
SO WE HUNG OUT UNDER THE COVERED OVERPASS UNTIL WE SAW IT WAS CLEAR AND WE RAN INTO THE FRONT DOORS
OF THE HOTEL WHERE WE WERE WHERE WE MET THE COMMAND POST WHICH WAS MANNED BY CHIEF GALVIN CHIEF GALVIN TOLD US TO STAND FAST WHILE HE WAS
SHORT WHILE LATER HE TOLD US ENGINE 47 ENGINE 22 LADDER 13 AND ENGINE
21 TO FOLLOW BUILDING EMPLOYEE WHO WAS GONNA TAKE US TO AN ELEVATOR BANK THAT STILL HAD SERVICEABLE
ELEVATOR TO THE 20 SOMETHING FLOOR HE TOLD US WE WERE GOING TO THE SOUTH TOWER BUT THE BUILDING
EMPLOYEE TOOK US TO THE NORTH TOWER
AFTER WE FOUND THE ELEVATOR THE OTHER
COMPANIES WENT UP AND WE WERE THE LAST LOAD TO GO UP ON THE SECOND TO LAST LOAD THE GUY THAT WAS
OPERATING THE ELEVATOR TOLD ME THAT THEY WANTED ONE OF OUR GUYS SINCE WE WERE FIVE MAN ENGINE TO
PUTTING COMPANIES TOGETHER

WALL
OPERATE THE ELEVATOR AND SINCE THERE WAS ONLY ONE TRUCK SO LOOKED OVER AND MY CONTROL MAN WAS KIND OF JUNIOR MAN SO ASKED THE SENIOR MAN WORKING TO TAKE THE ELEVATOR
HE ENTERED THE ELEVATOR WITH THE LAST COMPANY THAT WENT UP THEY WENT UP TO THE Z4TH FLOOR OR THE 22ND FLOOR AND THE COMPANY WAS GETTING OFF THINK IT WAS THE TRUCK COMPANY AT THAT TIME BECAUSE HE GRABBED THE LAST GUY GETTING OUT WHO WAS THE IRONS MAN AND HE SAID YOU GOTTA STAY WITH ME BECAUSE NEED TOOLS IN THE ELEVATOR
AT THAT TIME THE DOORS CLOSED AND THATS WHEN THE POWER WENT OUT WHICH WHAT WE FOUND OUT LATER WAS WHEN THE SOUTH TOWER FELL DOWN THEY WERE ABLE
TO FORCE THEIR WAY OUT OF THE ELEVATOR AND FOR SOME REASON THE GUY FROM THE TRUCK FROM 13 TRUCK WENT TO THE RIGHT AND HE WENT TO THE LEFT AND FOUND STAIRWELL AND HE WAS ABLE TO MAKE IT OUT
WHO IS LOUIE LOUIS
HE CACCHIOLI CACCHIOLI
ME AND THE OTHER GUYS ARE STILL IN THE LOBBY AND IT WAS WEIRD BECAUSE THE LIGHTS WENT OUT JUST

WALL
BEFORE THE RUMBLING STARTED AND ONE OF THE GUYS REMINDED ME JUST AFTER LIGHTS WENT OUT MADE LITTLE REMARK LIKE UH OH
THE LIGHTS WENT OUT WHICH WAS GOOD BECAUSE IT TOOK ONE OF OUR SENSES AWAY AND THEN THE WIND STARTED IT WAS LIKE HURRICANE WIND JUST LIKE BLACK STUFF JUST BLOWING AND HITTING US ME AND TOMMY TURILLI WERE ACTUALLY LITTLE BIT MORE INTO THE ELEVATOR LOBBY DEAD END CORRIDOR AND STEVE VIOLA AND KEITH MURPHY WERE IN THE MAIN CORRIDOR AND THEY TOOK LITTLE MORE BEATING THAN WE DID
STEVES HELMET THE FRONT PIECE THAT HOLDS THE THE METAL PIECE THAT HOLDS THE FRONT PIECE
WAS ACTUALLY BENT ON HIS HELMET STEVE STILL DOESNT REMEMBER GETTING OUT OF THE BUILDING HE WAS HIT GOOD ENOUGH IN THE HEAD THE WIND CAME AND PRETTY MUCH AFTER THE WIND STOPPED AND THE RUMBLING STOPPED IT WAS STILL BLACK YOU COULDNT SEE NOTHING IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE
CALLED FOR QUICK ROLL CALL SAID COUNT
OFF AND COULD STILL REMEMBER KEITH
FACE LOOKING AT ME LIKE WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT SAID OH YEAH SHOUT OUT YOUR NAME SO EVERYONE SHOUTED OUT THEIR NAME AND WE GOT
MURPHYS

WALL
AND
TO STEVE AND WENT OVER TO THE ELEVATOR GOT IN TOUCH WITH LOUIE CACCHIOLI WHO ELEVATOR HE INFORMED ME THAT HE WAS OUT
TO HOLD ON
BANK AND
WAS IN THE
OF THE ELEVATOR HE WAS IN THE STAIRCASE AND HE WAS ON HIS WAY DOWN
AT THAT TIME GATHERED THE OTHER GUYS TOGETHER AND WE LOCKED ARM IN ARM AND WE MADE OUR
WAY OUT OF THE BUILDING WHICH WAS INTERESTING ON THE WAY IN NOTICED THAT ALL THE WINDOWS IN THE LOBBY WERE JUST BLOWN OUT ALL THE GLASS LIKE THE ARCH GLASS WAS ALL BLOWN OUT FOR SOME REASON THOUGHT IT WAS PROBABLY GOOD WAY OUT JUST YOU KNOW ALWAYS KNOW YOUR WAY OUT FOR SOME REASON THAT WORKED
KNOW WE HAD TO GO FROM WHERE WE WERE PAST TURNSTILES MAKE RIGHT GO LITTLE WAYS AND THEN GO RIGHT AGAIN AND THEN JUST GO STRAIGHT OUT THE BUILDING SO WE LOCKED ON AND THERE WAS BUILDING WORKER WITH US AND FIREMAN TURILLI WAS TRYING TO COAX THIS GUY INTO COMING WITH US HE SAID HE HAD TO STAY BECAUSE OF HIS JOB AND FIREMAN TURILLI INFORMED HIM THAT YOUR JOB AINT WORTH THIS MUCH SO HE CAME WITH US
TH TH GUYS

WALL
AFTER WE GOT PAST WE WALKED DOWN THE LOBBY
THROUGH THE TURNSTILES MADE RIGHT AND WE ENCOUNTERED LINE OF CIVILIANS COMING DOWN AN
ESCALATOR SHAFT AND THEY WERE LOOKING FOR THE WAY OUT SO THEY GOT ON THE LINE TOO
SO WE MADE OUR WAY AFTER WE MADE RIGHT AT THE TURNSTILE KNEW WE HAD TO MAKE ANOTHER RIGHT
WHEN WE BUMPED INTO THE WALL KNEW THAT WAS GOOD TIME TO MAKE THE OTHER RIGHT AND AFTER THAT AFTER
WE MADE THE OTHER RIGHT WE JUST KEPT WALKING STRAIGHT AND THEN IT STARTED TO CLEAR AND WE COULD
SEE THE WINDOWS AND WE MADE OUR WAY OUT OF THE KIND OF THE GRADE FLOOR WINDOWS REMEMBER THERE
WAS LITTLE BAR GOING ACROSS THE WINDOWS AND WAS TRYING TO BREAK ONE BECAUSE CHIEF MURPHY WAS GOING TO CRAWL UNDERNEATH AND HE DIDNT HAVE HIS GLOVES ON WHEN HE KNEELED DOWN HE BURNT HIS HAND BECAUSE OF ALL THE DEBRIS RIGHT AT THE WINDOW RIGHT AT THE OUTSIDE LEVEL WAS STILL HOT
WE GOT OUT AND YOU REALLY COULDNT TELL YOU WERE OUT IT WAS JUST AS DARK OUTSIDE AS IT WAS IN WE MADE OUR WAY WE WENT STRAIGHT ACROSS WEST STREET BEFORE WE WENT NORTH WE FOUND AN ENGINE APPARATUS THERE AND WE PULLED THE BOOSTER AND ONE OF

WALL
THE GATES JUST TO WASH OUR FACE OFF BECAUSE WE
COULDNT SEE THING JUST THE FACE WAS BURNING AND
THE EYES WERE BURNING
AFTER THAT WE WALKED UP TO BELIEVE IT WAS
VESEY STREET THEY HAD LIKE AMBULANCE AFTER AMBULANCE AFTER AMBULANCE JUST LINED UP KEITH
MURPHY AND STEVE VIOLA WERE HURT STEVE HURT HIS
NECK AND TOOK SHOT IN THE HEAD AND KEITH
KNOW HIS NECK WAS HURTING TO AND AS HE WAS GETTING OUT HE BURNED HIS HAND
WHEN WE GOT TO VESEY WE LOOKED UP AND WE SAW ALL THE AMBULANCES SO WE TURNED LEFT AND WE WERE GOING ON VESEY TOWARDS GUESS TOWARDS THE RIVER WHERE ALL THE AMBULANCES WERE LINED UP THATS THE FIRST POINT WHERE WE SAW THAT THE BUILDING ACTUALLY CAME DOWN YOU KNOW WHERE WE MADE THE LEFT ONTO VESEY LOOKED OVER MY SHOULDER AND TO THAT POINT WE DIDNT KNOW THAT THE ACTUAL BUILDING HAD COME DOWN BECAUSE ON THE WAY IN THERE WAS POLICE OFFICER UNDERNEATH THE CUSTOMS BUILDING AND HE TOLD US TO COME INSIDE BECAUSE THEY WERE TRACKING ANOTHER INBOUND WHICH HE MEANT WAS ANOTHER AIRPLANE SO WHEN THE BUILDING CAME DOWN WE JUST THOUGHT WE DIDNT KNOW THE BUILDING CAME DOWN WE THOUGHT IT
YOU

WALL
WAS ANOTHER AIRPLANE THAT HIT THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME WE ACTUALLY SAW THAT THE TOWER CAME DOWN
WE GOT STEVE AND KEITH INTO AN AMBULANCE AND
THE GUY ASSURED ME THAT HE WOULD TAKE CARE OF HIM EVEN THOUGH HE DIDNT THEY PUT THEM IN COLLARS AND THEN AS THE SECOND BUILDING WAS COMING DOWN HE OPENED THE BACK DOOR AND HE SAID YOU GOTTA RUN BECAUSE THE OTHER ONE IS COMING DOWN THATS
ANOTHER STORY
ME AND FIREFIGHTER TURILLI WE GRABBED OUR MASKS AND WE FOUND ANOTHER PROBIE IN THE STREET WHO
HAD JUST GOTTEN DOWN THERE AND WE WERE ON OUR WAY BACK DOWN BECAUSE NOW THE MAY DAYS WERE COMING IN
SO WE WERE GONNA MAKE OUR WAY BACK INTO THE COLLAPSE SITE AND WE MET SOMEBODY AT WEST AND VESEY RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE BY THE MEDIAN IN THE MIDDLE OF WEST AND VESEY AND IT WAS CHIEF AND HE SAID WERE GONNA FALL BACK AND REGROUP
AT THAT TIME WE HEARD AN EXPLOSION WE LOOKED
UP AND THE BUILDING WAS COMING DOWN RIGHT ON TOP OF US SO WE RAN UP WEST STREET WE RAN LITTLE BIT
AND THEN WE WERE OVERTAKEN BY THE CLOUD AND WE HID BEHIND WHITE SUBURBAN BELIEVE ABOUT SEVEN OF US AND WE WERE SHARING WAS SHARING MY MASK

WALL
WITH THE OTHER PEOPLE IT WAS JACK GINTY AND GERRY REILLY FROM 22 TRUCK THEN AFTER WHILE MEAN IT
WAS JUST BLACK FOR WHAT SEEMED LIKE FOREVER WE WERE JUST PASSING THE MASK BACK AND FORTH IT WASNT LIFTING OR ANYTHING
THEN FINALLY WE JUST SAID ALL RIGHT LETS GO WE CANT STAY HERE SO WE ALL GOT UP AND WE
JUST STARTED WALKING DOWN VESEY STREET WHICH WAS STILL PRETTY BLACK WE WERE JUST TAKING SMALL
LITTLE STEPS UP AND WE ACTUALLY BUMPED INTO RIG WALKING UP VESEY STREET JUST BUMPED INTO SOMETHING
AND YOU LOOK REAL CLOSE AND THEN YOU FIND THE LIGHT FLASHING IT TURNED OUT TO BE RIG
SO WANDERING UP ON VESEY STREET WE FOUND
CURB AND YOU JUST WALKED UP THE CURB AND WALKED OUT OF THE CLOUD AND THERE WERE TWO GUYS IN AN
AMBULANCE THOUGHT THEY WERE OKAY BECAUSE THE GUYS SAID THEY WERE OKAY BUT DIDNT KNOW THEY HAD RUN BUT DIDNT KNOW WHERE MY CHAUFFEUR AND THE GUY IN THE ELEVATOR LOUIE CACCHIOLI WERE SO WE WERE TRYING TO MAKE CONTACT WITH THEM FOR LITTLE WHILE REALIZED LATER COULDNT MAKE CONTACT
WITH MY CHAUFFEUR BECAUSE WHEN WE WENT INTO THE SOUTH TOWER WE WENT TO CHANNEL AND MY CHAUFFEUR
10

11
BECAUSE WHEN THEY SWITCHED RADIOS IN THE LOBBY THEY TOOK JUST THE RADIO SO HE HAD IT KIND OF AROUND
HIS THING AND IN HIS POCKET SO WHEN HE WAS
RUNNING HE MADE IT OUT OF THE LOBBY AND HE MET UP
WITH LANCE THE CHAUFFEUR JUST AS THE SECOND TOWER WAS COMING DOWN SO WHEN THEY WERE RUNNING HE LOST
THE RADIO
AFTER THAT WE FINALLY REGROUPED WE REGROUPED IN FRONT OF STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL WE ALL GOT
TOGETHER AND THEY WERE LIKE BACKING US UP TO TRY AND REGROUP US AND THEN WE JUST GOT ALL OUR GEAR OFF
WE WERE SITTING DOWN AND SOMEONE SAID THERE WAS
BOMB AT STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL SO WE GRABBED ALL OUR STUFF AND WE RAN FURTHER UP WEST STREET AND
OH WHEN WE CAME OUT OF THE BUILDING AND WE WERE WALKING ACROSS WEST STREET WHEN WE FIRST GOT
OUT OF THE BUILDING WERE WALKING ACROSS THE STREET AND ALL YOU HEARD WAS LIKE BOMBS GOING OFF ABOVE YOUR HEAD YOU COULDNT SEE IT IT WAS JUST
CLOUDY AND WE FOUND OUT LATER IT WAS THE MILITARY JETS THAT WAS AN EERIE SOUND YOU COULDNT SEE IT AND ALL YOU HEARD WAS LIKE BOOM AND IT JUST KEPT
WALL
WAS STILL CHANNEL AND KST HIS RADI
GOING
WE COULDNT SEE 50 FEET ABOVE OUR HEAD

WALL
BECAUSE OF THE DUST SO WE DIDNT KNOW IF IT WAS BOMBS GOING OFF OR WHATEVER BUT WE DIDNT WANT TO
STAY THERE
WE REGROUPED AND AFTER WE WERE PRETTY FAR UP
ON WEST STREET WE WERE BY THAT WELL PAST THAT ARCH BRIDGE THAT EVERYONE WAS FORMING UP AT
PROBABLY WAS AT
CHAMBERS YEAH ALL THE WAY UP PAST
THIS YEAH PAST THIS ON THE MAP HERE PRETTY MUCH THATS WHERE WE STAYED FOR THE REST OF THE DAY
MEAN MY GUYS WERE SHOT
FINALLY
WE GAVE ALL OUR GEAR TO THE GUYS THAT CAME IN AND ME
AND MY GUYS AND THE GUYS FROM 22 TRUCK GERRY REILLY AND THE 11TH BATTALION HAD ALREADY TAPPED OUT SO WE
FOUND THEIR RIG AND WE COMMANDEERED THEIR RIG AND WE UST LOADED UP WITH LIKE NINE PEOPLE AND WE LEFT
WE CAME UP HERE AND WE WENT TO
ST LUKES ACROSS THE STREET WE HAD OUR EYES
12

13
WALL
WASHED UT AND CHUT WITH TH DY AND STUFF
THATS THE DAY IN NUTSHELL
BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN OKAY THANKS
LOT BILL THE TIME NOW IS 657 AND THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW
File No. 9110286
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER JOSEPH SULLIVAN
   Interview Date:  December 11, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
J. SULLIVAN
2
          BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN:  The date is December
     11, 2001.  The time is 1442 hours.  This is
     Battalion Chief John Malkin of the safety
     battalion.
          I'm conducting an interview with firefighter
     6th Grade Joseph Sullivan, Engine 224.  We are at
     the quarters of 224, and this interview is
     regarding the events of September 11, 2001, and
     following this is the interview.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   Okay.  We responded from quarters.  The
ticket came in at 8:54.  We were going on the first
alarm to the staging area by the Brooklyn Battery
Tunnel.  En route to the staging area, we were going
down Columbia Street, saw the second plane strike the
building and we went from being a, quote, good job or a
rough job, or we were going to earn our money today.
          Some of the guys put it, to -- started
realizing that it was a terrorist incident, that we
were -- you know, we were in for more than we thought
originally.
          We pulled into the staging area.  We were
there for maybe -- it's a little foggy.  Maybe four,
five minutes.  I got all my gear set.
Q. Uh-huh.
J. SULLIVAN
3
     A.   Then I remember getting sent in.  The only --
the only other companies that I remember hearing over
the radio besides us, there was a bunch of -- I
remember hearing 202, 101, I'm pretty sure, and went
through the tunnel.
          It was pretty slow go.  I was sitting with my
back to the lieutenant, and I remember seeing
people out the window, seeing people in buses trying to
use their cell phones being confused after seeing all
the apparatus going by, not knowing what was going on.
          They were scared.  One guy yelled up into the
 -- up to us, "Are we going to be able to get out of
here?"  We were nervous that maybe somebody was going
to bomb the tunnel also.  Eventually, we got out of the
tunnel with a sigh of relief, started making our way
down, going down West Street, see some stuff on the
floor, pieces of bodies, bone, stuff like that.
          Really couldn't see up.  The buildings are
too tall.  I saw one body.  Most of it was just pieces
of bodies.  As we were riding in, we must have ran over
some debris from the plane.  We saw debris all over the
floor.  We saw a wheel.  There was cars that were
flattened.  It was obvious that heavy things had fallen
J. SULLIVAN
4
on them, but the reason that I say that we ran over
something is because we had pulled up -- I believe it
was in front of the south tower, and Smitty was driving
that day, the chauffeur.  He didn't like where we were,
and he shimmied up a little more.  We saw tranny fluid
on the floor, so Richie Saulle climbed underneath there
with some putty, and I cut some chocks up, little
splinters, and kind of plugged it up.
     Q.   Coming from where?  Where was it coming from?
     A.   From underneath the tranny pan.
     Q.   From your rig?
     A.   From our rig, yeah.  So just quick tried to,
like, patch it up.  At that time, as far as I know, we
didn't have any orders, as far as where to go.
          We went up there.  Lieutenant DeSimone told
us to get settled, get an extra cylinder ready, ready
to grab your hose rollups, like that.  There was a
transmission.  I didn't have a radio on at the time.
I'm just going by what I heard going on around me, but
I don't know who it was or exactly where it came from,
if it came from the command center or not.
          Somebody had told us to move up towards Vesey
Street, I guess in order to relay water, if it was
needed.  So we did so, and then Lieutenant DeSimone
J. SULLIVAN
5
asked us again to get our cylinders, hose rollups
ready, and by the time we twisted and turned, the first
building had come down, started to fall.
          People scattered.  I was right next to
Lieutenant DeSimone.  We took a knee, masked up,
covered over us.  It was -- that lifted relatively
quick, the first one.  I don't know if it was because
we were blocked by the north tower or some of the other
buildings.  That lifted relatively quickly.
          I went ahead and I started looking around.
It looked just like snow, and I took my mask off, put
my hood up over my face, and I went over by another
member, Mike Hazel.  He was giving blows of air.  There
were a couple of cops.  There was a maintenance man.
Turned out to be a maintenance man, afterwards we found
out, from one of the buildings, so I was giving him a
hand.
          We were doing that, and then we got oxygen
off the rig and gave it to the maintenance man.  We
were looking out for Smitty, and for Stu Bailey.
Smitty had run down the block.  Stu Bailey had run down
the block, and now we were looking for them to make
sure that they were all right, because actually when
the building had come down, on the angle that it was --
J. SULLIVAN
6
the north tower was over here.  You won't be able to
get this on tape, but the north tower was kind of
blocking the south tower.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   Because of its natural angle.
     Q.   Yeah.
     A.   Yeah.  You could see it right there on the
map, so here we are, yeah.
     Q.   You guys were parked.  Now, we are talking
about the north tower shielding you from the south
tower collapse?
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   So where were you guys at that time?
     A.   From the best of my knowledge, I'd say that
we were up right around -- we were up right around
here.
     Q.   Okay.  He's indicating with the rig, right?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   The indication is that they're on West Street
at the north foot bridge, so that would be just north
of the first tower, the north tower.
     A.   So we were still covered over, but it lifted
relatively fast compared to the second one.
          Now, when it did collapse, I saw a chunk come
J. SULLIVAN
7
down.  I thought it was a partial collapse, like maybe
part of the fascia coming down, so we were actually
looking, you know.  It came down, and we were looking,
and all of a sudden the cloud rushed.  It was like
whoa, but then a couple of seconds it overtook us.  So
we may have stopped then.  A couple of other firemen
came out.  I don't want to curse, but for lack of a
better word they were, mother ba, ba, ba, bouncing
their helmets off the floor.
     Q.   Where did they come out of?
     A.   They were south of us.  They were a little
south of us.  They came and they started moving up.
One of the firemen -- I don't remember where he's
from.  He was a ladder, because I remember he had a red
patch.  He had a gash on his head.  Triaged him,
patched him up.
          A couple of other people --  like I said, we
gave oxygen to the maintenance man.  A couple of other
people running around, dazed, grabbed them, checked
them out.  We were looking for Smitty.  We were looking
for Stuey.
     Q.   Smittie and Stuey are guys from your company?
     A.   Yes, yes.  Yes, members of the company.
     Q.   Where did they go?  Where were they at this
J. SULLIVAN
8
time?
     A.   They went north.  They started moving up
north.
     Q.   When the building was coming down?
     A.   When the building was coming down.  So they
went north, and Smitty had come back.  We found him.
Stuey later on had hooked up with another company, was
coming around looking, see what he could do.
          After that, there was a lot of commotion.
It's a little hazy.  I remember somebody screaming and
the second tower was coming down, the north tower, and
that was coming down, and we just took off running.
Actually, I still had my extra cylinder in my hand.  I
started running, felt it was slowing me down.
Discarded that.
          I had a choice to go left on Vesey Street or
to continue straight.  As I turned, thinking about
going left on Vesey, I decided not to, but I saw the
cloud coming, pressed the face piece up against my
face, turned on my air cylinder and started walking
along the fence.  I remember a chain link fence.
Q. Uh-huh.
     A.   Started walking along the chain link fence.
I didn't want to run because I know I depleted some of
J. SULLIVAN
9
my tank with the previous collapse and from giving air
to people, so I just remember trying not to panic going
at a hurried pace, but not running and sucking down my
bottle.
          As I'm going, I heard somebody -- I remember
somebody moaning or something like that, and I reached
off the fence, and I went off the fence a little bit.
I couldn't find anybody.  I started going forward, and
I bumped into another person, which turned out to be
one of the guys from my company, Mike Hazel.  I bumped
into him.  "Who's that?"  He said, "It's Mike Hazel.
Who's that?"  I said, "It's Sully."  Running out of
air.  Changed my tank out for me.  He still had his
extra cylinder.
Q. Okay.
     A.   Changed that along the fence, and as luck
would have it, another member came by with a
flashlight, and he was looking with the flashlight, and
we walked out along the fence, kept going north till we
were out of the cloud.
          This one was very thick, the second one,
because I remember as I was walking, and I had the face
piece cheated up against my face, I had knocked my
helmet back trying to get it on, and I didn't get it on
J. SULLIVAN
10
till right before I changed Mike's cylinder, but I
wiped across my face piece, thinking that it was just
ash, or dust on the face piece.  When I wiped it clear,
it was still black.  It was still -- you couldn't see.
It was pretty thick.
          As we walked out, started to dissipate.
People -- somebody turned on a hydrant.  People --
cops, everybody were diving into the hydrant, trying to
wash their faces off, wash their mouths out.  It was
filthy, wretched water, but nobody cared.  There was
nurses and doctors coming around with eye wash.
          There was a transmission to go north.  I
remember a disturbance by the water.  I saw a police
officer come out to the street and start directing
people away from the water, and it turned out there was
a gas leak or something, but at the time we didn't know
if it was a bomb or -- so we just kept getting orders
to go north, go north, go north.
          Eventually we turned around, and we went
north, settled and regrouped and worked our way down a
little bit to investigate and see what was going on.
          As far as anybody that has passed or is
missing that I saw -- the only person I thought I might
have seen was Dennis Oberg.  I thought I saw him.
J. SULLIVAN
11
     Q.   Who's he?
     A.   He was a probie in my class.
     Q.   What company?
     A.   Geez, I forget what company he's in.  I
really don't recall, Chief, I'm sorry.  I thought I saw
him after the second collapse.  The first collapse
rather.  I'm sorry.  But I can't guaranty that, but
that was about it on -- I had seen Terry Rivera when we
came in.  He narrowly got away.  He's in 10 truck.  He
was on the detail.  I actually spoke to him the night
before, because I had a friend that's in the academy
being assigned there for his seven-week rotation.
          I spoke to him the night before, and as we
were coming down West Street, I saw him, and it wound
up that when the first building was coming down, I
guess some of the other firemen -- this is the story
he's telling me, that they thought it was debris coming
down, and they ran into the lobby, and he drove
underneath the rig, and the building came down and
that's why he was alive, instead of going in, going
under the rig.
Q. Uh-huh.
     A.   Throughout the rest of the day, I was across
the street from -- I'll show you on the map.  Where the
J. SULLIVAN
12
movie theatre is across the street from the telephone
company.
     Q.   This is the north tower.  This is the south
tower.
     A.   South tower, and where would the telephone
company be?  That's it right there.
Q. Okay.
     A.   So I would imagine it's right around here is
the movie theatre.
     Q.   Indicating across West Street on the west
side of West Street just north of Vesey.
     A.   I was again with Mike Hazel.  I stuck with
him.  He's one of the senior members.  I stuck with him
most of the day, and we were walking back towards where
our captain was, because after the recall he had come
in.  This is later on in the day, and we heard a rumble
that Building 7 was coming down, so we didn't know what
to expect, so we wound up doing -- actually a broken
window in the door of the theatre.  There were two
police officers actually walking next to us so I told
them, I says, "Duck in there," and we both ducked in
there, too, and it really didn't, you know, reach us.
          We came out and went down to see what we
could do with helping with the stretch, because now by
J. SULLIVAN
13
this time they were starting to draft, so I think it
was -- I don't know what marine company was drafting,
but it was 53 engine, into 84 engine, to us.
Q. Uh-huh.
     A.   The 224, because we actually -- when we were
getting ordered up north, all of a sudden we started
hearing 224, start water.  That's why we wound up going
down and investigating.
Q. Right.
     A.   Because the rig had to be okay, so we wanted
to go down and man the rig.  There was -- I remember
there was really no pressure in the hydrants.
     Q.   Right.  Who was calling you to man -- to
supply water?  You don't know?
     A.   I don't know.  I don't know, to be honest
with you, but I do know that the water pressure was
terrible.  The volume -- it looked like there was
volume there.  You turn on the hydrant, there was water
flowing out, but, I mean, the hoses barely filled, you
know, at any rate.
Q. Uh-huh.
     A.   Then they started drafting later on in the
afternoon, and the rest of the day we were pretty much
by the rig.  The rest of the night, I should say.
J. SULLIVAN
14
          I think we probably went home around eleven,
started heading back towards the house, as far as I can
remember.
     Q.   Go back to when you took the position at the
hydrant after you were first at the south tower and
they told you go up north, you wound up somewhere north
of the north tower by the foot bridge, right?
     A.   We were by the hook.
     Q.   Okay, you hooked up?
     A.   As far as I can remember, yeah.
     Q.   And then go over where the guys were again,
what duties they performed, how long you were there,
how long you operated there.  What did you do there?
     A.   Well, geez, let me think how long we were
there.  I had moved up.  We were --
Q. Go ahead.
     A.   It's hard with the time.  We were helping the
chauffeur to hook up.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   I'm trying to think if --
     Q.   How long were you there when the south tower
came down?
     A.   How long were we there when the south tower
came down?  Maybe 15 minutes or so, maybe.
J. SULLIVAN
15
     Q.   Okay, 15 minutes.  You helped him hook up?
     A.   We were helping him hook up.  I remember
actually I think the -- also the first -- the first
place that we stopped we might have started to hook up
also there.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   And then had to pack it back up.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   I remember for some reason we went with him
when he moved.
     Q.   Uh-huh.
     A.   We were helping him.  I remember helping
Richie Saulle with trying to plug up the tranny pan.  I
remember Lieutenant DeSimone telling us to get an extra
cylinder, get a hose rollup, and then he says we're
going to go over and see what the story is.
     Q.   Where were you now?  You had moved up to the
north part?
     A.   We had -- I'm trying to think if it's after
the first time or the second time we moved.  I think
that was actually after the first time we moved.
     Q.   Okay.  Did you get your rollup and your
cylinder?
     A.   Yes, we actually took the rollups off the
J. SULLIVAN
16
rig, and we had --
     Q.   Did you walk up to the building any place to
the south tower?  Did you walk away from the rig?
     A.   We started -- yeah, we walked away from the
rig.  We started walking towards the building, yes,
okay.  It was after the first time we moved that he --
what do you call it?  That we started going towards the
building, and that's whether they were ordered to move
up.
     Q.   So you put everything back on the rig?
     A.   So I put the hose rollup back on the rig.
     Q.   Right.
     A.   I didn't put my cylinder back into the proper
spot.  I just stowed it, tossed it the rig.
     Q.   Did you get back on the rig to ride up to the
other spot?  You walked up the other spot?
     A.   Walked, walked.
     Q.   Now, the rig goes up to West Street where you
indicated north, somewhere in the vicinity of the north
walk bridge?
     A.   The north walk bridge.
     Q.   You found the hydrant?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   And then you said you helped the chauffeur
J. SULLIVAN
17
hook up.
     A.   Helped the chauffeur hook up.
     Q.   And two guys went where?  There was something
about two of you fellows went --
     A.   When the building came down.
     Q.   Now, how long were you there?  You said 15
minutes maybe?
     A.   Maybe 15 minutes.  I tell you the truth, it's
very hazy.
     Q.   So what happened in that 15 minutes?  You
just --
     A.   I tell you the truth, people jumping out of
the buildings.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   I tell you the truth, that was quite a shock,
too.  I mean, there we were, and out of the corner of
my eye, I thought maybe it was a piece of debris
falling down.  It was a person jumping out of the
window, and another one, another one, another one, and
I don't know.  It was pretty hazy as far as, like, how
much time --
Q. Okay.
     A.   -- was spent or what was going on, and again
I didn't have a radio.
Q. Right.
J. SULLIVAN
18
     A.   So I couldn't really hear what was going on.
I could only hear if I was next to somebody.
     Q.   Right.
     A.   You know.
     Q.   Was your officer there with you?
     A.   I remember Lieutenant DeSimone walking ahead
of us towards the building.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   This is when he was telling us to get ready,
that we were going to go and see, you know, what the
story was, what we could do.
          He was ahead of us.  He was a good maybe 20,
30 yards because he had told us to get our rollups and
our cylinders, and he started walking up.
Q. Uh-huh.
     A.   As that's when we started walking towards
him, towards the building, and he told us put our stuff
back on and move up, and then we did it again.  I
grabbed the cylinder again.
     Q.   After you relocated up to the north --
     A.   After we relocated again.
     Q.   Took the stuff off, helped the chauffeur hook
up.
A. Yeah.
J. SULLIVAN
19
     Q.   And then what do you remember?  Did you go
into the north tower?
     A.   No, we didn't go into the north tower.
     Q.   Did you go to the command post over there?
Did you see Ganci at the command post on West Street?
     A.   No, I didn't see Ganci.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   I didn't see Ganci.  I was -- most of the
time, I was on the -- well --
     Q.   Go ahead.
     A.   We're facing this way with the rig.
     Q.   Okay.  That's facing --
     A.   Most of the time I'm on the left side of the
rig.
     Q.   Okay.  That's facing north on West Street,
okay.
     A.   So I really couldn't see too much of what was
going on, because all the hydrants were on this side,
so I was running around over there.
     Q.   So while you were in that area, the south
tower collapsed.
     A.   The south tower collapsed, right.
     Q.   It was a tremendous cloud --
J. SULLIVAN
20
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   -- that lasted for some period of time.
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   10 minutes, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, something
like that.  You used your mask intermittently.
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Then that cleared.
          Then what did you do after that?  There was a
long period of time between the second building
collapsing?
     A.   Maybe 15, 20 minutes, and we were -- that's
when we were helping the firemen that were coming that
were from south of us that started moving up.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   We were helping civilians, police officers.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   And we were trying to get organized.  We were
looking for Smitty, make sure he's all right.
     Q.   Uh-huh.
     A.   Stuey.
     Q.   Where did they go again?
     A.   They went up north.
     Q.   They went up north because that cloud
enveloped you guys?
J. SULLIVAN
A.   Because the cloud enveloped us.
21
     Q.   They moved up north.  They were looking for
them, but at the same time you were helping civilians?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   Kind of like --
     Q.   Yeah.
     A.   You know.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   New on the job.
     Q.   Okay, all right.
     A.   But, I mean, I tried to do the best that I
could, as far as helping out.  I didn't want to -- you
know, I -- but I just remembered doing that, and I
remember also at the same time looking up again.
          There was still people coming out of the
north tower, jumping, and I remember one person in
particular, if it really was a person.  There was -- it
was a guy who looked like he was standing in the window
maybe, hanging on.  I just remember seeing it looked
like a white shirt up there, and thinking, don't jump,
you know, they're going to get you.  You know, they are
going to get up there and get you.  Didn't happen, but
I don't know.
J. SULLIVAN
22
          I just remember after that one came down,
there was just an order to move north, and so we moved
north.  People were trying to wash up again in the
hydrants, and then there was the whole commotion by the
waterfront, gas leak, a bomb, whatever, you know.  We
didn't know what was going on.
          There was also a transmission at some time.
I don't remember if it was after the first tower came
down.
Q. Yeah.
     A.   Somebody said -- I don't know if it actually
came over the radio or something.  You heard a buzz
about that there was another plane being tracked.  I
don't know if it was a military plane maybe somebody
was tracking.
Q. Right.
     A.   Or they were talking about the plane in
Philadelphia, and they didn't know where it was
heading, but that was also -- caused a little bit of a
commotion, too, so it was a mass exodus up forward
north.  People were trying to get settled, get
reorganized.  They had that whole thing with the gas.
     Q.   Yeah.
     A.   They pushed us farther north again, regroup,
23
     A.   Looked at each other, like, huh?  We realized
the rig was all right, didn't get crushed, and we
wanted to go down there and man the rig.
     Q.   You guys never got orders to go into the
Tower 1, right?
     A.   Not that I'm aware of that.
     Q.   Yeah.
     A.   Not that I'm aware of.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   I don't believe we had orders to go into
either building.
     Q.   Uh-huh.  You didn't see command post or --
any chiefs you remember on West Street?  You didn't
see -- did you see the chaplain?  Did you remember
anybody?
     A.   The only person I remember, really remember
seeing a hundred percent --
Q. Yeah.
     A.   -- is Terry Rivera.  I drove him to probie
school every day.
Q. Okay.
J. SULLIVAN
went to go see what we could do.  We heard the
transmission 224 start water.
Q. Yeah.
J. SULLIVAN
24
     A.   And he was standing outside on West Street.
He looked like he was looking for somebody.
Q. Yeah.
     A.   And as we were driving down West Street, I
yelled out to him, and he didn't look like he heard
me.  When I spoke to him later, he did hear a voice.
He didn't know it was me, though.  He thought it was a
truck calling him, but he was in and out of the south
tower before it fell, and that was the only specific
person that I remember.
          There was actually -- I think the Rescue 5.
There was a rescue firefighter that actually rode the
back of our rig through the tunnel to the trade
center.  I wasn't even aware that he was on the back of
the rig.  I didn't know until sometime after this
happened, weeks, that he came out.  I didn't even
know.  There was a lot of things going on, you know.
     Q.   Where was the staging area on the Brooklyn
side?  Where did you respond to when you staged there?
     A.   Geez.
     Q.   Outside the Battery Tunnel was it?
     A.   It was outside the Battery Tunnel.  I think
it was -- Hamilton Avenue?  Let me think.
     Q.   You were there when the second plane hit, you
J. SULLIVAN
25
said?
     A.   Yeah, we were coming down -- I believe it was
Columbia Street, and I was with my back to the
lieutenant, and the lieutenant had actually said, "Look
out the window, look out the window."
          We didn't see the plane yet.  Looking out the
building, the smoke was already across the river.
There was papers falling on the Brooklyn side already.
Q. Uh-huh.
     A.   Out of the corner of my eye, I saw a plane
coming, and I actually said to Mike Hazel, I said,
"What is this guy going to do?  Is he going to try to
fly under the smoke?"
          I thought it was a regular pilot, just, you
know, that he was going to have to divert his flight
path because of this big, huge plume of smoke, and I'm
saying to myself, why isn't he flying around the
building on the windward side instead of, you know --
it looked like he was trying to duck under the smoke,
but then he banked and hit the building, and that was
that.
Q. Well --
     A.   I mean, actually, the guys on the other side
of the rig didn't believe me, because when this
J. SULLIVAN
26
whole -- when this all started I was upstairs, and they
said, "Hey, Joe, you know, a plane hit the World Trade
Center," and being the johnnie in the house, I thought
they were pulling my leg.  Get out of here, you know.
Came downstairs and saw it on the news.
          My first thought was it was like what
happened with the Empire State building.  You always
see these old, you know, newsreels or whatever.
They're talking about the B-29 or B-17 that hit it.
Q. Uh-huh.
     A.   Oh, wow, you know, this is going to be
trouble, but I thought it was an accident.  Then on the
way there, just, you know, stopped, turned into
something totally different, and I don't know.
     Q.   Okay.  How did you guys get back to quarters
late at night when you were finally relieved?
     A.   Basically hitched a ride in an ambulance.
     Q.   Yeah.
     A.   We walked up north.  We were trying to look
for a bus to get back.  Couldn't find a bus.  I don't
know what the story was, and we wound up flagging down
 -- what do you call it?
          Actually, it might be of some interest.
There was a person that they -- really wouldn't be.
J. SULLIVAN
They thought had been lost.
     Q.   A fireman?
27
     A.   A fireman, a lieutenant, actually, and our
lieutenant saw him on the bridge, and he passed it
along.  I don't know what the story was with that, but
probably really of no relevance, but yeah, we flagged
down a volunteer ambulance.
     Q.   Uh-huh.
     A.   We were piled in.  Just came home.
     Q.   Okay.  Anything else you remember?  That's
good.
     A.   Nothing off the top, Chief.
          BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN:  Okay.  I thank the
     firefighter for the interview, Firefighter Joseph
     Sullivan.
          This concludes the interview at 1508 hours.
     That finishes it.
File No. 9110287
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER JOSEPH MEOLA
   Interview Date:  December 11, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
J. MEOLA
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  The date is
     December 11, 2001.  The time is 2:53 p.m., and
     this is Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan from the
     safety battalion of the Fire Department of the
     City of New York.
          I'm conducting an interview with Joseph Meola
     in the quarters of Engine 96.
     Q.   Joe, just tell us what you saw on September
11.
     A.   On September 11, approximately -- I'd say it
was a little bit after nine, we responded on -- I was
in Engine Company 91.  Responded on the second fifth
alarm to Tower 2.  I went down with a Captain Montera
and a Firefighter Brian Russo.
          We went in the RAC unit with the RAC unit guy
whose name is -- I forget his name.  He was in the RAC
unit that day.
          We left quarters, went all the way down
Second Avenue, eventually pulled onto Church Street
outside Tower No. 1, World Trade Center No. 1.  On foot
we proceeded to Church and Liberty, where we tried to
get a couple of extra masks.
          After not getting any extra masks off the
rigs that we saw there, there were a couple of engine
J. MEOLA
3
companies, maybe Engine 207, 209.  It was a 200 number,
low 200 number.  I don't remember.  A couple of rigs
there, low 200 numbers.
          We went into the quarters of 10 and 10.
After we were in the quarters for approximately 30
seconds -- it was a triage center at the time.  After
we left 10 and 10, as soon as we walked outside the
door, a firefighter from an engine company 2 -- I
believe it's 216, Danny Suhr, just outside 10 and 10's
quarters on Liberty Street, got hit by a jumper.
          They were pulling him away.  I believe they
got him into an ambulance, and they were yelling at us
to get away, because jumpers were jumping from the
south tower onto Liberty Street, and a few jumpers came
close to us, but no -- we met up with another company,
Engine 58, which is in our battalion, which was in the
12th battalion.
          I believe they were on Liberty at the time.
I don't know if they were going in the building.  I
don't remember, but they did make their way into the
building before us, not building -- not Tower 2, but
Tower 3.  The Vista, Marriott.
          They made it into the Vista before us after
 -- later on.  We met up with them on Liberty, talked
J. MEOLA
4
to the boss for a little while, talked to a couple of
the guys, and we were avoiding lots of material that
was falling from the building.
          We went under -- I believe it's 130 Liberty
Street.  The building -- I think that's the address,
actually, 130.  There was a scaffolding, and we went
under the scaffolding there, and we made it to West.
We made it to West Street, down to West Street, asking
firefighters where the command post was.
          They showed us that the command post was
located just outside the 2 World Financial Center in
front of a garage, a parking garage.  We made our way
down that block and to the command post.
          At the command post was several other
companies.  I don't know what companies were there at
the time.  Several other companies, ESU police, several
of the high chiefs -- Ganci, Burns, Donald Burns,
Ganci.  I remember seeing those two.  I remember
seeing -- I think it might have been Barbara.  I'm not
a hundred percent sure.  I just -- there was a lot of
chiefs at this command post.
          At that time, I believe it was -- I believe
the chief was -- okay.  At that time, I believe it was
Chief Burns who explained to us that we were going to
J. MEOLA
5
go to -- we were going to go through the Vista, the
Vista -- Marriott Vista, into 2 World Trade Center to a
subbasement with an engineer that was at that post at
the time, at the command post.
          We were getting our gear together.  We were
getting ready to walk across the street, and he told us
to hold up.  We didn't have our forcible entry tools.
We were an engine company, didn't have any forcible
entry tools.  At that time he sent our chauffeur.  He
didn't send the chauffeur.  I think the chauffeur went
to the rig to get the entry tools, and that was the
last I seen that chauffeur that -- until later on our
chauffeur was -- did survive, but was hurt in the first
building collapse, Tower No. 2.
          He held us there approximately within three
minutes.  As we are looking up at the building, what I
saw was, it looked like the building was blowing out on
all four sides.  We actually heard the pops.  Didn't
realize it was the falling -- you know, you heard the
pops of the building.  You thought it was just blowing
out.
          We turned -- I turned to take a look where to
go, turned around.  Several companies, myself and half
of my company, ran into a parking garage at 2 -- I
J. MEOLA
6
believe it's 2 World Financial Center.  We ran into the
parking garage.
          As I ran into the parking garage, I turned
around.  I saw the whole side -- the side of the
building falling into the street and the cloud of dust
coming towards us.
          As we got to the back of the garage, the dust
had entered the garage, and somebody had opened up the
door that was ahead of us into a stairwell.  We got to
the stairwell.  We got into the stairwell.  We shut the
door.  There was already maybe 20 firemen in there
already and officers in the stairwell for the financial
center, and a couple of more guys banged on the door.
We opened up the door.  We pulled them in, got a little
contaminated, but not bad at all, and we made
ourselves -- after that we made ourselves up to the 1st
Floor of the financial center.
          After that, we exited the rear of the
financial center, and what you can see was -- I believe
it's the little bay there.  The North Cove Yacht Club
coming out of the back there.  We went right -- you
could see the water of the yacht club.  We worked our
way around 2 World Financial Center, and it was pretty
dark, dusty.
J. MEOLA
7
          You couldn't -- your eyes were hurting.  You
couldn't breathe, but you tried to head for the water.
I think I believe I ended up on North End Avenue, one
block just short of the water, right on the water
somewhere.
          After on North Avenue, I believe we went down
Vesey Street -- Vesey or Murray.  It's one of those
two -- back towards West Street.  I was with half --
maybe half the members of the company, three of four
members of the company.  The other three or four
members, at that time we were -- we did not know where
they went.  We didn't know if they made it in the
garage, they were still in the garage, if they were out
on West Street.  We got split up.
          As we worked our way back to Vesey towards
West, we ran into several people that we knew.  We
tried to get people together.  We were going back
towards West and Vesey somewhere where we heard people
screaming, "The second building is coming down.  The
second building is coming down."
          Within ten seconds, the second building
started to drop.  We ran up West.  We made it up West
maybe to Barclay or past the telephone company building
up on West, past the telephone company building.  We
J. MEOLA
8
didn't make it as far as Stuyvesant or where the other
overpass is yet.  We didn't make it up that far.  I
don't remember.  Maybe Murray or Barclay on West.
          We took cover from the second cloud, smoke
that engulfed us, and...
     Q.   Did you have any warning that the second
tower was coming down, via radio traffic or --
     A.   Radio traffic.  Radio traffic on -- what you
heard on the handy-talkies was you heard conflicting
reports of guys saying hold in the first tower or --
and you heard other guys saying, "Get out.  Evac the
first tower.  Evac.  Evac the first tower."
          Also at the command post, when I was at the
command post earlier, the radio traffic that you heard
was Maydays.  I didn't have a radio, but the -- several
radios were on in that vicinity of bosses or control
man or -- at the time in that -- and I believe the
radio traffic was -- you heard several Maydays coming
from -- I don't know if it's Tower 1 or Tower 2,
Channel 1 or Channel 2.  I believe we were on Channel
2, and you heard Maydays on Channel 2 coming from
rescue.  I believe it was rescue companies.  I'm not a
hundred percent sure.  My memory is just jogged on
that.  You heard Maydays.  You did hear Maydays,
J. MEOLA
9
several Maydays.  "We need water.  Mayday.  We need
water.  Mayday.  We need water.  We got no water," to
that effect.  I don't remember exactly, just -- that
day is such a tough day.
          Coming back to Vesey and West on another
communication after the first tower fell, Tower 2 fell,
Tower 1, you heard guys -- firemen, chiefs,
lieutenants, I don't know who -- yelling conflicting
reports, some saying -- most saying, "Get the hell out
of the tower.  Get out of Tower 1.  You know, Tower 2
fell."
          I didn't realize the full Tower 2 fell until
we went back to Vesey and West.  At the time when I ran
into the parking garage, I believe only half -- I
thought only half the building fell down.  I did not
know the whole building came down, and when we got back
there, I realized the whole tower was down, and that's
what you were, like, the whole -- you know, you knew
the other one was imminent.
          After that, we worked our way up West
Street.  I got -- I believe we met up with another two
tour members of the company.  I remember going to a
hydrant, going to a rig, opening up a hydrant,
everybody washing their face, their eyes out, trying to
J. MEOLA
10
get their composure back together, and in -- we wanted
to work our way down towards West and Vesey, and we got
held up by one of our bosses, which said -- which told
us to hold, to hold tight there and go back to the
command post, which was now located somewhere up by
Stuyvesant.  I believe it was located by Stuyvesant
High School.
          We went back there, washed up, cleaned up and
I spent, you know, a part of the day there before
returning back later on that afternoon to the site.
          I believe that's about it.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Thank you, Joe.
          The time now is 3:08, and this concludes the
interview.
File No. 9110288
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER WILLIAM REYNOLDS
 Interview Date:  December 11, 2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
Reynolds
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today's date
     is December 11, 2001.  The time is 1:59 p.m.
     This is Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan from
     the Safety Battalion of the Fire Department
     of the City of New York.  I'm conducting an
     interview with William Reynolds, Firefighter
     First Grade, from Engine 76, in the quarters
     of Engine 76.
     Q.   William, just tell us the events as you
recall them on September 11th.
     A.   We arrived down through the West Side
Highway, I honestly don't remember what street we
had gotten off the rig, 76 Engine.  Probably
somewhere in the area of Murray and West or maybe
something south of that like Vesey.  At that time,
the engine went off to places unknown and the
company ended up down at 2 World Financial Center by
the command post, waiting for an assignment.
     More companies arrived and so probably there
was approximately 45 people there.  I don't know the
other companies that were there.  I wasn't really
paying attention.  I did notice at the time I saw
standing next to me Mayor Guiliani and the Police
Commissioner, Chief Ganci and Chief Ray Downey.  It
Reynolds
3
seemed like a decent amount of time that we were
there and we as a group had become pretty distracted
with the amount of people jumping down out of the
north tower.  It got to the point that we were
talking about not looking at the people.  So as a
group we all turned our backs to them so we wouldn't
have to look.  Then the noise from the people
hitting, it became so much that we ended up having
to turn around and look again.  This went on for a
while and I remember the people that were hitting
the awning over the doorway, they were blown to
pieces.  I remember saying, "I hope they don't hit
that awning, because this way I don't have to see
them blown to pieces."
     After a while, and I don't know how long it
was, I was distracted by a large explosion from the
south tower and it seemed like fire was shooting out
a couple of hundred feet in each direction, then all
of a sudden the top of the tower started coming down
in a pancake.  I remember my jaw dropping and just
staring at it and Richard Banaciski, one of the
firemen that was there, yelled "Run" and I turned
and I started running into the parking garage of the
Financial Center.
Reynolds
4
     Q.   Bill, just one question.  The fire that
you saw, where was the fire?  Like up at the upper
levels where it started collapsing?
     A.   It appeared somewhere below that.  Maybe
twenty floors below the impact area of the plane.  I
saw it as fire and when I looked at it on television
afterwards, it doesn't appear to show the fire.  It
shows a rush of smoke coming out below the area of
the plane impact.
     The reason why I think the cameras didn't get
that image is because they were a far distance away
and maybe I saw the bottom side where the plane was
and the smoke was up above it.
     So we ran into this parking garage, the parking
garage was empty of cars and it was lit and I
remember thinking, "I hope that this building
doesn't fall down and crush the building that I'm
in."  And I remember saying, "I can't die today.  My
wife wouldn't accept this."
     So anyway, we made it to the back of the
building and I remember looking over my shoulder as
this wall of darkness came in.  Luckily it was only
just smoke.  I was standing next to my Lieutenant in
the engine, Lieutenant Farrington, and I had set my
Reynolds
5
mask down by the ramp at the entrance and I didn't
have a mask.  I said to him, "Frank, if the smoke
gets bad, you're gonna have to share your mask with
me."  Then we continued back further.  Frank found
an exit and a security guard, we asked the security
guard if that exits the building and he said, "Yes."
I remember saying to him, "Are you absolutely sure?"
He said, "Yes."  So I said, "All right.  Then get
out of here.  Go."
     So all of a sudden Frank came out with a life
saving rope, which I wasn't aware he had at the
time, and he hooked it to the doorknob and we
started walking back into the area where we just ran
from and I heard people with masks on, the guys had
masks on, I could hear them in all directions.  So I
followed behind Frank and I started talking out loud
saying, "If anybody can't find the way out, we have
a rope over here.  He'll take you to the door."
Some voices said, "Where?"  I said, "I'll keep
talking.  Just come to my voice and there is a way
out over here."
     Then I remember hearing somebody saying, "Oh, I
have a door here."  I said, "Well, if you have a
door, then go out the door.  But if anybody is lost,
Reynolds
6
just come over to my voice and there is a rope and
you can follow it out."  So then guys started
showing up towards me.  They put their hands on the
rope and that's the last I saw of them.
     So after we were confident that there was no
one left in the parking garage, Frank and I followed
the rope back and we worked our way to the back
door.  When we got out, we were by the North Cove
Yacht Harbor and we went out to the Hudson River.
What I had forgotten to state previous to this,
before the towers had fallen, two emergency service
cops had come up to us in wired gear, carrying uzis
and asked if we had seen any civilians.  They said,
"If you see any, come get us.  Don't go near the
civilians."  At the time there were no civilians
around, in my eye shot.
     I also remember, at that time, which I had also
forgotten to state, that in the north tower there
was a woman who may have been a security guard for
the complex and she was just walking back and forth
seeming to be oblivious of the people falling down,
jumping down right on the other side of the glass.
In hindsight, I would say she probably was in shock.
     There was also a Police Officer in there.  He
Reynolds
7
just seemed to be just standing there not paying
attention to what this woman was doing.  Anyway,
back to getting out to the water.
     We started regrouping as a company, verified we
were present.  We did not know at the time where
George Rodriguez, our chauffeur, was.  There was a
lot of radio traffic.  The Lieutenant was trying to
find out where George was.  After a short time we
heard communication that George was fine.
     I remember then seeing a civilian, the first
civilian that I saw, he was carrying a bag and I
thought, you have to watch out for the civilians and
I was thinking, maybe I should take his bag and
throw it in the water, because I didn't know what it
was.  Then I thought maybe of throwing him in the
water.  Then I said, "No.  He's walking south.  I'll
work north and get away from him."
     I remember discussing with other guys that
maybe there is people around that would shoot us.
Then we went over closer to the water and there was
a barge there.  I remember thinking, this might be
an oil barge and there might be a bomb on it.  So we
started walking back towards West Street.  Then I
was thinking, we can't go close to the buildings
Reynolds
8
because if more planes come.  So we kind of just all
were walking around dazed and I ran into a Battalion
Chief.  I don't know who he was.  I said to him, I
said, "Chief, they're evacuating the other building;
right?"  He said, "No."
     Q.   You're talking about the north tower now;
right?
     A.   Before the north tower fell.  He said,
"No."  I said, "Why not?  They blew up the other
one."  I thought they blew it up with a bomb.
     I said, "If they blew up the one, you know
they're gonna blow up the other one."  He said, "No,
they're not."  I said, "Well, you gotta tell them to
evacuate it, because it's gonna fall down and you
gotta get the guys out."  Because I had felt there
were hundreds of firemen who died in the first tower
and thousands of people.  He said, "I'm just the
Battalion Chief.  I can't order that."  I remember
looking at the radio on him and I said, "You got a
fucking radio and you got a fucking mouth.  Use the
fucking things.  Empty this fucking building."
Again he said, "I'm just a Battalion Chief.  I can't
do that."
     So I walked back by the water.  We were all
Reynolds
9
basically just somewhat in visual site of each
other, us and 22 Truck, some of the guys from 22
Truck.  I had known, at that time, that all of the
guys of the 22 truck had gotten out.  We were
walking around very numb.  I knew I was in shock,
but there was nothing I could do about it.
     So eventually this other chief came back and
said, "They are evacuating this tower."  I said,
"Oh, that's great."  And sometime after that I
watched from the, I guess, by the Winter Garden
area, I watched the north tower fall.  It was
expected so it wasn't as traumatic as the first one
to me.  Then that Battalion Chief came back again
with his clip board and he said, "We need volunteers
to go back in and check the perimeter for
survivors."  He emphasized that we didn't have to go
in, but if we would he would appreciate it.
     So he took the names of us in 76 Engine and we
went back in.  I believe it was at Vesey Street we
got up to about Washington and a Deputy Chief met us
there and said that he wanted us to go back up West
Street and regroup and we'd take it from there.
Basically while we were in that area, Washington and
Vesey, it was just everything burning on the ground
Reynolds
10
and around us and the dust, and it was no apparent
people laying around that was visible.  So we walked
up West and I think we got to the area of Stuyvesant
High School and basically that's where I spent a
good amount of time.  I don't think anything much
after that should be relevant, because I didn't come
back down to that area again of the World Trade
Center for many hours.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Okay.  Thank
     you, Bill.  I appreciate your cooperation.
File No. 9110289
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       LIEUTENANT DANIEL WILLIAMS
        Interview Date:  December 10, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
D. WILLIAMS
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  The date is
     December 10, 2001.  The time is 1:35 p.m., and
     this is Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan of the New
     York City Fire Department safety division.
          I'm conducting an interview with Lieutenant
     Daniel Williams of Ladder 16.
     Q.   Dan, please tell us the events of September
11.
     A.   Beginning on September 11, approximately
quarter to nine in the morning, voice alarm went off in
quarters, telling 39 engine to turn out.  Highly
excitable voices over the voice alarm, turn out with
the high-rise rig.
          I was down on the apparatus floor at the
time.  I stepped into the house watch area, where one
of the members had a TV on, and we heard that a plane
hit the trade center, took a quick look, figured out to
myself that wasn't a small aircraft that hit the
tower.  I went over to the apparatus and just started
looking over equipment, thinking we are going to be
going momentarily.
          Approximately ten minutes later, one of the
members yell out, "The second tower was hit," and I
started thinking it was a terrorist act.
D. WILLIAMS
3
          Approximately ten after nine, we received a
ticket to respond to the south tower command post,
along with Ladder 2, Ladder 13 and Battalion 10.  We
were special called.
          We had trouble getting out of quarters due to
numerous police cars parked in front of the firehouse.
Evidently, they were on recall.  It took us a few
minutes to get out of quarters.
          As we pulled out on Lexington Avenue, 13
truck and the 10th battalion went by, and we convoyed
down to the site with them.  We parked on West Street
at approximately, I'd say, Murray Street, and we
proceeded south.  Members -- we proceeded south.
          We took our extra bottles, proceeded down to
the command post, which was in front of 2 World
Financial Center at the loading dock area.  At that
time I reported in, there was a few companies, a few
engine companies, and a couple of ladder companies
standing there.
          I heard the chief say to the companies that
were already there, "Report into the north tower."  The
one company I do realize that went into the north tower
that was assigned to the north tower was 13 truck.
          The 10th Battalion Chief Harten said, "Stand
D. WILLIAMS
4
by.  We'll have an assignment for you in a few
minutes."  At that time, I believe we were the only
truck company still left at the command post, and I
believe there were two or three engine companies still
standing by on the other side.  We had the engines on
one side and the trucks on the other.
          As the time -- as I was standing there, I was
watching the towers, and especially the south tower.  I
really believed that there was going to be a partial
collapse, meaning the upper floors were going to come
off.  You know, I'd say there was 15 floors of fire.
          We were witnessing people coming off the
building, jumping from the north tower, which was
directly across the way from us.  A few of my
firefighters started getting very upset, and I did yell
something to them.  In other words, turn around, shut
up, turn around, look the other way.  There's nothing
we can do for these people but say a prayer.
          I turned my face back towards the buildings
as -- looking up at the south tower.  It seemed like
the one floor exploded, but in retrospect I'm thinking
that was the compressive force of the building coming
down that blew it out.  I remember yelling, "Run."
          My company and I know other members were
D. WILLIAMS
5
behind us from the command post.  They came running
into the loading dock area.  At that time, a heavy
cloud of dust entered the loading dock area where we
had zero visibility for a couple of minutes.
          I asked members of 16 truck if everybody was
there, and I went through the riding list.  We were
missing one member at this time, and I told the rest of
the members up the ramp we're going to find the other
member.  We proceeded out up the ramp out towards West
Street again, from 2 World Financial Center, and we
started doing a search looking -- mainly looking for
our guy that was missing.
          At this time, we found 10 or 15 walking
wounded types.  We directed them into the loading dock
area.  At this time, there wasn't much debris on the
ground.  There was maybe four or five inches of
concrete dust and light debris around that area.
          As we were directing the people into the
loading dock area, we came across an EMS worker that
told us he weighed approximately 350 pounds.  I believe
he was heavier than that.  I said, "We got to get
you -- you got to get out of here.  Can you walk with
assistance?"
          Two of the members tried to pick him up, one
D. WILLIAMS
6
under each shoulder.  He had a broken leg and a broken
arm, evidently, and he was yelling in pain.  My
chauffeur, Oscar Davila, found a gurney that was blown
down the loading dock, down the ramp.  He brought that
up, and we placed this member on -- this EMS worker on
the gurney.
          A couple of the brothers wanted to take him
up to West Street, and I said, "No, we're going to go
through the building, through the loading dock area and
out the back," since the north tower was still
burning.
          We started wheeling him into the locking dock
area when a member of 6 truck -- I don't know if he was
recall or if he was one of the on-duty members.  He
said to me he couldn't find his company.  He did not
have a radio.
          At that time, the radios were going.  You
couldn't get in edgewise any word on the radios.  I
told him to stay with us until the radio traffic calmed
down, and I would notify someone of that fact.
          We got down into the loading dock area with
this gentleman on a gurney.  There were trucks blocking
the loading dock.  My chauffeur moved one truck so we
could get him up on the loading dock.
D. WILLIAMS
7
          At this time, the -- we still hadn't found
our fifth man.  He was still missing.  I had the
other -- I had three of the members start leading the
walking wounded and other people we were finding within
the financial center, leading them up the C stairway to
the rear of 2 World Financial Center toward the river.
          About this time, I was told by my chauffeur
and the man he was with, the EMS worker and the man
from 6 truck, that they were stuck in the subbasement.
The elevator took them down.  They took an elevator,
and it took them down into the subbasement.  At this
time, I told the chauffeur to get out of the elevator
and just stand by.  I'll get help to help get this guy
up the stairs.
          I started up the C stairway to retrieve the
rest of the members to give a hand with this guy when I
heard a deep rumbling, and I felt vibrations.  I
thought it was the financial center coming down.
          I was in the stairwell.  I ducked behind the
stairs.  The door was propelled with quite a bit of
force, and debris went down the hallway, went flying
down the hallway.  Then within 15 seconds at the most,
it subsided.  I proceeded up the stairs where I found
three of the members.
D. WILLIAMS
8
          I was still missing my can man at this time.
I got my three members that were up there.  I got a
couple of other members.  I believe one was from 53
engine.  We went down the stairs into the subbasement,
and we carried the EMS worker up the stairs, up -- I
believe it was four flights of stairs to the back of
the 2 World Financial Center.  We took him over to the
marina over there, where he was placed on a police boat
and was taken to Jersey, evidently.
          At this time, I saw a battalion chief with no
bunker coat or helmet on him, and I asked him where the
command post was.  He just kept repeating, "Go south."
At this time 6 truck member, he left me.  Couldn't find
him.  We were still without our can man.
          The rest of the company, we proceeded down
along the river's edge until approximately -- I believe
it's Albany Street.  I saw a couple of fire boats tied
up to the pier head there, and I believe it was
Commissioner Gregory.  I asked him where the command
post was.  He mentioned that he was it, and to help
stretch a line from the fire boat down Albany Street.
          The members of 16, we helped numerous other
members stretch this 3 1/2 down to approximately
Washington Street, where I noticed a building pretty
D. WILLIAMS
9
well involved.  I don't know what -- you know, couldn't
tell where I was at this time approximately.
          After stretching that line, headed back, and
we are going to head north again, go back to the
financial center and see if we can find our member.  We
went back down through the same stair, the C stairway,
in the 2 World Financial Center and worked our way out
through the loading dock area, which by now was covered
with heavy steel I beams, and box beams and all of
this, where the command post was.
          We did start climbing into voids and things,
tried to do a radio feedback assist, got nothing on
that.  We had no tools.  We lost all our tools in the
first collapse.  We proceeded out to the financial
center after doing a search of a couple of floors in
that building.
          We worked our way up -- I believe it's North
End Avenue to -- it might have been Vesey Street where
there was another command post.  While we were working
our way up, I ran into the member that was missing, on
North End Avenue.  We ran into him.  He did state that
after the first tower came down, he just -- he ran
through the building, came out near the river and
headed north.  He asked me if I was mad at him.  I said
D. WILLIAMS
10
no.  I said at that time nobody ever saw anything like
this, and I was just very concerned.
          I took the members into a restaurant.  I'd
say this was approximately two o'clock in the
afternoon, took them into a restaurant that was open on
 -- I believe it's Vesey Street.  Not too many members
in there.  We had some water, and I had everybody call
home to let somebody know they were okay.
          I heard that 39 was trapped, and the command
post, the north command post, was telling us, don't go
down there.  We did do a survey around the area there
and around the perimeter of where the buildings were,
looking for any victims in the outlying areas of where
this occurred.
          About, I would say, four o'clock or so, we
were told go to up to Stuyvesant High School, where
they had a command post, triage, to do a roll call, you
know.  We proceeded north up West Street, and we went
to Stuyvesant High School.
          It was not too soon after that that 7 World
Trade Center collapsed, and at that time people were
yelling, "Run," and we just stood there and watched the
thing come down.  That was about it.
          We did -- I did give them a list of company
D. WILLIAMS
11
numbers of members that we told to get on boats to go
over for medical aid, wherever they were taken, whether
it was Jersey or Staten Island.  It was approximately
ten members on that, on the list that I had.  No
names.  It was just company numbers.
          At Stuyvesant High School, a few of the
members did get, you know, eyes washed out and things
like that, and then we took a little rest up there in
the cafeteria area and went back out.
          Our rig was moved sometime during the day.
We got back to that, and there was damage done to it,
the windshield and lights, things like that.
          At approximately eight o'clock we left the
scene.  We were ordered to take up by the command post,
take our rig back to quarters, which we did.
          Sorry to say that Rob and Ray didn't make it
through that day.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Thank you, Dan.
          The time now is 1:50, and this concludes the
     interview.
File No. 9110290
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER KENNETH ROGERS
   Interview Date:  December 10, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
K. ROGERS
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  December 10, 2001.
     The time is 10:48 a.m.  This is Battalion Chief
     Dennis Kenahan of the Safety Battalion of the New
     York City Fire Department.  I'm conducting an
     interview with Kenny Rogers, Firefighter first
     from Ladder 16 in the quarters of Ladder 16.
     Q.   All right Kenny, please give me any
information you have regarding the events of September
11.
     A.   At about a quarter to nine, high rise, Engine
39 responded to the first plane crash into the World
Trade Center.  We turned on the TV and we were watching
because it was newsworthy and we saw the second plane
hit and almost immediately, we were told to respond
down there.  We had trouble getting out of quarters and
we were delayed a bit and 13 and 22 in the Battalion
were ahead of us, got ahead of us.  I saw them pass us
on the corner.  We wound up following them down,
downtown.  Wound up on West Street going south and we
followed them for as far as we could.  We got down
further than I thought we did, because we passed a lot
of rigs and eventually we couldn't go any further.
          There we disembarked and we walked south.  We
went down to West Street, to the command post, and then
K. ROGERS
3
we passed in front of 2 World Financial Center, by a
garage bay.  We were just standing there and 13 and 22
were there, a big group were sent in ahead of us.  We
should have been in their place but because we arrived
a step behind them, they went in ahead of us.  We just
stood by and waited.  I think we were waiting for
another truck company to fill us out.  We were going to
get the next assignment.  We sort of had the nod but we
didn't have the wave yet.
          Watching the building, mostly the south
tower.  There were people jumping, someone said we are
going to go a long way up, let's take off some of our
gear.  At first I didn't, but after a while I thought
he was probably right because it was getting heavy.  So
I took off some stuff and he took off some stuff.  Some
other guys did.
          Meanwhile we were standing there with about
five companies and we were just waiting for our
assignment and then there was an explosion in the south
tower, which according to this map, this exposure just
blew out in flames.  A lot of guys left at that point.
I kept watching.  Floor after floor after floor.  One
floor under another after another and when it hit about
the fifth floor, I figured it was a bomb, because it
K. ROGERS
4
looked like a synchronized deliberate kind of thing.  I
was there in '93.
          I went down to the garage bay.  Most guys
were down already.  The Lieutenant had been yelling at
the command post, run, run, run.  The only person I saw
come in with us was a Chief and the rest of them didn't
come in.  The companies just scattered everywhere.  I
think we had maybe nine people with us and there had to
be four in the beginning.  All these other companies
just scattered.  We didn't know where they were.  They
didn't come down with us.  We had two people, I think,
from other companies, different companies.  One guy was
from a truck.  I think the other another guy was Steve
Wright.  An injured person with us, a big fat guy and I
found an ambulance cot at the bottom of that ramp.
          We put him on that.  We moved a truck away
from the loading bay, because it had the key in it.  We
put him up on the loading dock and then we put him into
a freight elevator, but the Lieutenant said I don't
want everyone on that elevator.  We don't know how well
it works.  He turned out to be right.  Because it
didn't -- it malfunctioned.  It went down instead of up
and the guys were lucky to get off it.  Steve Wright
was on that elevator.  Two people were on it, the guy
K. ROGERS
5
from the other company, Steve Wright, and the injured
guy.  The injured guy couldn't walk and he had a broken
arm.
          The Lieutenant said okay, we are going to
have to carry him up the stairs.  I should say that he
already had a roll call after the dust cleared.  We
were missing one guy.  Then he had another roll call
back by the stairwell, hoping the guy might be back by
the stairwell, but he wasn't there either.
          We decided to carry this guy up the
stairwell.  One of the guys from the other company said
there is a way out, out of the building, that goes out
the back.  We decided we were going to go that way.  We
tried to pick this guy up.  The stairwell was narrow.
We couldn't all get our hands on it.  The guy was very
big.  Eventually we got him up several flights of
stairs.  We got him out the back of the building and we
put him on a boat going over to New Jersey somewhere.
          Then we went back from North Cove harbor, we
went back to the building and the second collapse
occurred when -- the three of us were in the back of
the building; myself, Oscar and Joe Petrich.  There was
a really heavy draft.  My helmet just flew off into
this black curtain of soot behind the building and on
K. ROGERS
6
the back of the building there was an overhang, so I
didn't really want to go into either one of those
places, but then I was worried about the glass flying
around inside the building.  So the thing to do, I
figured, was to just stay where I was, where I had the
most places to go and see what would happen.
          What happened was it subsided.  I didn't have
a turnout coat at this time.  I didn't get cut up so it
turned out to be the best thing to do was just to wait
and see where the best place (inaudible).  That's how
it worked out for me with the second collapse.
          Then we went back into the building to find
the Lieutenant.  At this time, there was still lights
in the stairwell.  There was a lot of water running
down the stairs, so we knew the building had some kind
of damage.  I went down to a lower level, which I
hadn't been to before, below the loading bay, where we
had been originally.  There was no access in the
loading bay anywhere else.  It was just one level that
went down.  I was hoping there was, because I was
hoping I could hide down there.
          Someone located him and yelled down the
stairwell, we found him, we got him.  So we went back,
we all regrouped and then we went up the ramp to go out
K. ROGERS
7
to the front of the building where we had come in.  We
were looking for the guy we were missing.  The
Lieutenant and some people were off to the left and me
and Joe Petrich went to the right of the bay to the
left and we went up there.  We kind of searched quite a
bit of the building looking for people.  We didn't see
anybody except one guy with a camera.  I don't know
where he came from.  He was taking a picture of the
World Trade Center collapse I guess.  He was okay
though.
          When we left the building, then we saw a
couple of other firemen starting to come in to search.
We told them we have looked around already.  We knew we
were the first guys there because there was no foot
prints in the dust or anything.  There was a lot of
dust in the exposure, blown in windows on that side of
the building.
          After that, we went back into the building.
We went out the back.  We skirted North Cove harbor and
we went to a street, which I guess was North End, and
then we went to Vesey Street and we turned right.  We
ran into a guy.  The Lieutenant asked him where is the
command post.  The guy said I'm it.  So we figured the
command post was in a lot of trouble, because we could
K. ROGERS
8
see them from where we had been in our staging area.
Now there didn't seem to be a command post any more.
          Anyway, we found a place on Vesey, somebody
forced their way into it.  It was a place called
Chevy's.  We went in there.  We were very happy to see
people come in.  We -- like 39 Engine, we heard them
give a Mayday and they weren't responding to any radio
transmissions so we thought they might be all dead.
          One of the guys came in from 39, a couple of
guys came in and started wandering in and it was just
good to see these guys were okay.  We stayed there for
a while.  That was pretty much the events of that day
for us.
          After that, we sort of went back to the
school.  We went into the school.  There was another
collapse of another building, but we were too far away
to be affected by that.  We went back to the rig and we
washed the rig down.  It turned out that --
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Thank you Kenny.
     The time now is 11:13.  This concludes the
     interview.

FILE NO 9110291
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER MICHAEL BRODBECK
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 10 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

BRODBECK
CHIEF KING IS 10 2001 ITS 1645 HOURS THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF STEVEN KING FROM SAFETY BATTALION FDNY IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH FIREFIGHTER FIRST GRADE MICHAEL BRODBECK FROM ENGINE COMPANY 210 HE WAS WORKING MUTUAL IN LADDER 1106 ON SEPTEMBER 11TH AS THE CAN MAN THIS INTERVIEW IS
THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
OKAY MIKE
RIGHT AFTER THE FIRST PLANE HIT THE NORTH TOWER WE WERE DISPATCHED AND WE WERE FIRST
TICKET WE JUMPED ON THE RIG AND STARTED GOING OVER THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE AT THIS TIME WE WERE STILL UNAWARE IT WAS ACTUALLY LARGE PLANE UNTIL WE GOT AROUND THREE QUARTERS OF THE WAY OVER THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE AND THEY CONFIRMED IT WAS COMMERCIAL AIRLINER THE 2ND BATTALION AIDE BELIEVE WAS SCREAMING ON THE RADIO ABOUT THE JUMPERS UP AND DOWN
THINK WE ARRIVED DOWN CORTLANDT STREET WHICH WAS FACING TWO WORLD TRADE AND
PRETTY MUCH THE WAY YOU SEE THAT SECOND PLANE HIT ON THE VIDEOTAPE WAS THE WAY WE WERE FACING THAT
REGARDING

BRODBECK
AS THE SECOND PLANE HIT THE CHAUFFEUR WHICH WAS ARTIE RICCIO DID TURN AROUND
CENTURY 21 WHICH BELIEVE IS NEAR ONE LIBERTY PLAZA OVER THERE WE CAME AROUND AND THINK WE CAME DOWN VESEY STREET WHERE OUR RIG WAS
WE GRABBED OUR GEAR CARRIED EXTRA CYLINDERS HAD THE CAN AND HAD MY HOOK WE
WALKED AROUND THINK DOWN VESEY TO WEST STREET WE MADE LEFT AND WE CAME TO THE NORTH TOWER
WE PROCEEDED TO WAIT UNTIL JUMPERS WERE DOWN WE WENT INTO THE LOBBY WE ARRIVED IN THE LOBBY AWAITING INSTRUCTION
WE AWAITED INSTRUCTION FROM THE CHIEFS WE WENT WITH BELIEVE IT WAS CHIEF PICCIOTTO DONT KNOW IF THATS EXACTLY HIM BUT THINK
RECOGNIZED STUFF
HIM HE WAS ON THE TELEVISION AND
WE WENT UP TO THE MEZZANINE AND WE TOOK AN ELEVATOR THE CHIEF SAID THAT THESE ELEVATORS WERE ALL RIGHT WE TOOK THE ELEVATOR WHICH BELIEVE GOES UP TO EIGHT WE GOT OFF AT EIGHT AND PROCEEDED TO WALK UP TO 23 WE STOPPED ON 23 AND THEN WE WENT UP TO 25 THEN WE MADE

BRODBECK
UR WAY BACK
SO WE WERE EITHER ON 23 OR 21 DONT
KNOW DONT REMEMBER THAT THINK IT WAS 23 THE LIEUTENANT GAVE US INSTRUCTIONS TO MAKE
THOROUGH SEARCH POP ALL THE DOORS MAKE SURE
EVERYBODY IS OUT OF THE BUILDING
ME AND THE IRONS MAN WENT LEFT
MY CAN AND TOOK THE HALLIGAN HE HAD THE ROUTER
TOOL WE PROBABLY POPPED AT LEAST 10 OR 15 DOORS
MAKING SEARCH
ON WHAT FLOOR
ON 23 OR 21 IM STILL CONFUSED ABOUT THAT BELIEVE IT WAS 23
AT THIS POINT AFTER WE MADE THOROUGH SEARCH WE LOCATED TOGETHER VIA THE STAIRWELL
AT THAT POINT UNBEKNOWNST TO US THE SOUTH TOWER FELL WE DIDNT KNOW THAT THE SOUTH TOWER FELL
DIDNT HAVE RADIO BECAUSE HAD THE CAN BUT
HEARD THERE WAS COLLAPSE IN THE NORTH TOWER BETWEEN THE 68TH AND 70TH FLOOR
WHEN WE HEARD THE EVACUATION WE
STARTED OUR WAY DOWN AT THIS POINT WE WERE
STILL UNAWARE THAT THE OTHER TOWER WENT DOWN WE WERE IN THE STAIRWELL WE ALL REGROUPED AT THE

BRODBECK
STAIRW TH WENT WHEN IT WENT DOWN LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE SAYS IT WAS LIKE
AN EARTHQUAKE THE BUILDING WENT SIX FEET TO THE RIGHT SIX FEET TO THE LEFT
WE STARTED TO MAKE OUR WAY DOWN VERY
SLOW PROCESS ONCE THE MAYDAYS KEPT COMING OVER GUYS WERE JUST STOPPING IN THE STAIRWELL AT APPROXIMATELY THE 18TH FLOOR THE OTHER MEMBERS
OF LADDER 110 STARTED CARRYING WOMAN DOWN IN CHAIR WAS WALKING DOWN WITH ANOTHER WOMAN BELIEVE FROM 18 TO LIKE 12 AND SHE WENT WITH TWO OTHER MEMBERS FORGET WHICH ENGINE
THEY WALKED HER DOWN
PICKED UP ANOTHER CIVILIAN AT 10
WALKED HER DOWN SHE WAS WITH TWO CIVILIANS WALKED HER DOWN SHE WAS HYPERVENTILATING SHE THOUGHT SHE WAS HAVING HEART ATTACK SO PUT
MY MASK ON HER BECAUSE THE DUST FROM THE OTHER TOWER WAS STARTING TO COME UP INTO THE OTHER BUILDING THIS WAS PROBABLY AROUND LIKE THE
SIXTH FLOOR WHERE THE DUST STARTED GETTING BAD GAVE HER MY MASK FROM LIKE TEN DOWN BECAUSE SHE
WAS JUST TRYING TO CATCH HER BREATH
WE WENT DOWN THIS WAS THE
COMPANY

BRODBECK
STAIRW TH KBBY WAS LITTLE BIT AHEAD OF 110 WHILE THEY WERE CARRYING THE OTHER WOMAN DOWN WHEN GOT DOWN TO THE LOBBY ASKED THE WOMAN IF SHE WAS OKAY THE TWO CIVILIANS TOLD ME THAT THEY WOULD TAKE HER SHE WENT WITH THE TWO CIVILIANS
WENT AND CAUGHT UP WITH LADDER 110 AND WALKED OUT OF THE NORTH TOWER WHICH
BELIEVE WAS AT LEAST 25 MINUTES JUST TO GET DOWN FROM UP THERE WE WALKED OUT INTO THE STREET
UNDER THE OVERPASS THE NORTHERN WALKWAY ON WEST STREET
WE GOT OUT TO ONE OF THE RIGS AND PUT OUR GEAR DOWN LIEUTENANT WAYNE MERA AT THIS POINT WE STILL DIDNT KNOW THE OTHER TOWER WENT
DOWN THE NORTH TOWER IS AHEAD OF THE SOUTH
TOWER SO AS WE WALKED OUT WERE STILL
MUCH CLUELESS ABOUT THE OTHER TOWER GOING DOWN
WE MADE OUR WAY UNDER THAT OVERPASS
WE STOPPED THERE LIEUTENANT MERA SAID HE DIDNT
LIKE THIS WHERE WE WERE STANDING WE STARTED TO WALK NORTH ON WEST STREET WE PROBABLY GOT MAYBE
50 YARDS THEY WERE LIKE TWO RED LIGHTS AND WE STOPPED AGAIN WE PUT ALL OUR EQUIPMENT DOWN
PRETTY

BRODBECK
ON GUY HIS MASK FF
AT THAT POINT THE NORTH TOWER
FROM THE TIME WE WALKED OUT OF THE TOWER TO THIS POINT HAD TO BE LESS THAN FIVE
MINUTES MAYBE LIKE THREE MINUTES BY THE TIME
IT
SCATTERED AND RAN RAN NORTH ON WEST STREET
PUT MY MASK ON THE VIBRA ALERT WAS GOING OFF HAD NO AIR LEFT BECAUSE GAVE IT TO THAT WOMAN
ON THE WALK DOWN
THE DUST BALL CAME DOWN AND HIT US
RAN IN COMPLETE DARKNESS AND WOUND UP RUNNING FACE FIRST INTO THE BUILDING BEFORE THE VERIZON
BUILDING ON VESEY WAS ACTUALLY TRYING TO
BREAK THROUGH THE GLASS
AT THE TIME DISLOCATED MY SHOULDER
WAS RUNNING DISLOCATED MY SHOULDER WAS
TRYING TO BREAK THROUGH THE GLASS WITH MY LEFT ARM THEN THE DOOR FLEW OPEN HAPPENED TO BE
BANGING ON THE DOOR THE DOOR SWUNG OPEN AND KNOCKED ME ON MY BUTT
TWO FIREMEN FROM 305 ENGINE DRAGGED ME IN THERE WHICH BELIEVE IS SIX WORLD TRADE IN
COLLAPSED
HAPPENED VERY QUICKLY
AT THAT POINT WE ALL PRETTY MUCH

BRODBECK
TH CUST BUILDING RIGHT TH
THAT OR THE TELEPHONE BUILDING IM NOT TOO SURE TWO FIREMEN DRAGGED ME IN THERE
AT THAT POINT WAS TRYING TO GET IN TOUCH WITH MY BATTALION TO FIND OUT IF THOSE GUYS LIVED OR WHATEVER WE ALL MET UP AT WHAT
BELIEVE WAS WEST STREET AND MURRAY THAT BRIDGE THAT GOES OVER THAT OTHER ONE NEAR LIKE
STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL WE MET UP THERE
THAT WAS IT PRETTY MUCH FROM COLLAPSE
PURPOSES DONT KNOW IF YOU WANT ME TO GO ON DID YOU SEE ANYBODY THERE ANY SPECIFIC
INDIVIDUALS AT ANY POINT
THAT AINT HERE NO MORE WALKED OUT
WITH SOMEONE FROM 65 ENGINE THAT GREW UP WITH HAVENT SEEN HIM IN TWO YEARS WE HAPPENED TO
HIT THE LOBBY DOORS GOING OUT
ON THE WAY UP WE WERE WITH 21 ENGINE GUY FROM 21 PLAYED FOOTBALL WITH HE WAS
WITH ME GOING UP WHEN WE WERE COMING OUT THEY WERE AHEAD OF US REMEMBER SEEING BILLY BURKE
THE CAPTAIN WHO GOT KILLED THINK HE WENT LEFT BECAUSE THEY ALL WENT RIGHT WITH US
ASSUME HE MIGHT HAVE GONE OVER TO WHERE THE
IT WAS ITH

BRODBECK
WAS WHAT
THATS LIKE THE OVERVIEW WHEN WE
FIRST GOT TO THE FRONT OF THE NORTH TOWER WAS WATCHING PEOPLE JUMP WE WERE ACTUALLY WAITING
TO SEE IF ANYBODY WAS COMING OUT OF THE BUILDING ON THE WEST STREET SIDE TO MAKE SURE WE WERENT
HIT
WHEN YOU WERE ON THE 23RD FLOOR DOING SEARCH WHAT WERE THE CONDITIONS
ANYWHERE
IN
FINE NOTHING UP THERE
NO SMOKE NO SIGN OF WATER FLOWING
NO NOT AT ALL
THE STAIRWELL DRY
THE STAIRWELL WAS DRY NO WATER
DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT STAIRWELL YOU WERE
BELIEVE
WE CAME DOWN FROM WHAT UNDERSTAND IT WAS THE ONLY ONE THAT WAS NOT
OBSTRUCTED IT WAS GOOD THING WE WERE GOING DOWN WHEN WE WERE GOING UP THERE DIDNT SEEM
TO BE THAT MANY FIREMEN BELIEVE WE WERE

PR
WE GOT THERE PRETTY QUICK
BRODBECK 10
TH FIRST 15 UNITS TH SC
HAPPENED TO SEE THAT THING ON CNN FROM ENGINE THEY WERE ON 21 DIDNT SEE
THEM IM PRETTY SURE IT WAS 23 THAT WE WERE ON THERES LOT OF DOORS WE POPPED TON OF
DOORS LOOKING FOR PEOPLE
TO BE HONEST WITH YOU REMEMBER
LOOKING OUT THE WINDOW AND SEEING THAT COMMAND
POST ON WEST STREET THINKING IT WASNT GOOD IDEA TO BE THERE IVE BEEN ON SIX YEARS WHEN
LOOKED DOWN IT DIDNT SEEM LIKE REAL BRIGHT PLACE TO HAVE ONE LITTLE THINGS LIKE THAT STUCK
OUT IN MY MIND WHEN LOOKED OUT ON THAT FELT UNCOMFORTABLE ABOUT THAT
WE WERE SO IN THE DARK ABOUT THE OTHER TOWER GOING DOWN WE WALKED OUT OF THE NORTH
TOWER AND LOOKED SOUTH AND JUST SAW THE MARRIOTT HOTEL THE CORNER OF IT REMEMBER SAYING TO MYSELF THE MARRIOTT TOOK BEATING FROM ALL THE DEBRIS FALLING YOU JUST SAW THE CORNER OF IT FROM THAT ANGLE COMING BACK
SO UP UNTIL THE POINT WHERE THE NORTH TOWER WENT DOWN WE DIDNT

AT ALL
BRODBECK 11
DIDNT THAT CAME
WE DIDNT KNOW THAT AT ALL
YOU DIDNT FEEL THAT OR HEAR THAT OH NO WE FELT IT WE WERE IN THE
NORTH TOWER AND WE WERE IN THE STAIRWELL WHEN THAT TOWER WENT DOWN OUR TOWER WENT SIX FEET TO THE RIGHT SIX FEET TO THE LEFT AND WE FELT THE DEBRIS FALLING BUT IT FELT LIKE AN EARTHQUAKE IVE NEVER BEEN IN BIG COLLAPSE THOUGHT
YOU DIDNT KNOW THE TOWER CAME DOWN
NO WHAT HEARD OVER THE RADIO WAS THAT IT WAS COLLAPSE FROM THE 68TH THROUGH 70TH FLOORS THOUGHT THATS WHAT WAS THAT MUCH OF RUMBLE AND EVERYTHING ELSE YOU KNOW UNTIL AFTERWARDS LIKE SAID DISLOCATED
SHOULDER
SO AFTER THE COLLAPSE AFTER THAT BUILDING AND GOT BACK WITH 110
MY
LEFT DOCTOR
FROM HAZOLLAH CAME OVER AND PUT ME IN
STOOD ON WEST STREET FOR LIKE AN HOUR AND HALF FIGHTING WITH THE LIEUTENANT NOT TO GET ON THE AMBULANCE
THEN THE 16 FLEW OVERHEAD
SLING

BRODBECK 12
THEY
ME TO GO DIDNT WANT TO GO BUT WAS USELESS
ANYWAY AFTER THAT WAS TAKEN TO ST VINCENTS
HOSPITAL WAS TAKEN TO CHELSEA PIERS FIRST
THEY HAD TRIAGE AND THEY POPPED MY SHOULDER BACK IN WAS TAKEN TO ST VINCENTS
DIDNT GET BACK TO BROOKLYN UNTIL
600 OR 700 WAS TAKEN TO METROTECH WAS
WITH JOHN FEEHAN THEY BROUGHT ME BACK TO THE
DIVISION WAS WITH HIM AND THEY BROUGHT US BACK TO METROTECH FROM METROTECH JUST WALKED
OVER TO 110 AND WENT TO SLEEP THATS PRETTY MUCH IT
OKAY MIKE
CHIEF KING THE TIME IS 1700 HOURS AND THIS INTERVIEW IS CONCLUDED
File No. 9110292
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
    FIREFIGHTER STANLEY TROJANOWSKI
   Interview Date:  December 10, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
                 S. TROJANOWSKI                 2
          CHIEF MALKIN:  Today's date is December
     10th.  It's 1813 hours this is Battalion
     Chief Malkin, Safety Battalion.  I'm
     conducting an interview with firefighter
     Stanley Trojanowski, first grade, Engine
     238.  We're at the quarters of 238.  There's
     nobody else present in the room.  This
     interview is related to the events of
     September 11th, and what follows is the
     interview.
     Q.   You start out from in quarters.  When
did you get the run?
     A.   We received the run a little after
9:00.  We responded on the fifth alarm to the
initial building that was hit by the airplane.
We made our way down Barclay Street.  We tried to
make a left-hand turn on West Side Highway or
West Street, but it was all congested with
traffic.  So we left the rig on West Street.
Actually I stayed with the rig on West, between
Barclay and Vesey on West.
          The guys responded to the command post
which is at Liberty Street and West, and I stayed
with the rig.  I hooked up, got a little bit of
                 S. TROJANOWSKI                 3
pressure, just enough for an inch and
three-quarter, which wasn't even sufficient
because it read zero from the hydrant pressure on
the gauge.  I had a little bit of water.  So I
tried to be prepared there.
          That's it.  Later on to see what was
going on, I listened to the radio.  I saw some
people jumping eventually.  First I thought it
was debris from the airplane that hit or maybe
from the building itself, or birds.  Once the
people got closer, I could see they were actual
human beings.
          After the collapse of number Two World
Trade Center, which I actually thought was a bomb
that went off because the north tower was
blocking my view, debris and everything started
falling, people were running.  I hid underneath
the scaffolding on Barclay; I'm pretty much sure
it was Barclay and West.
          Things cleared up a little.  I started
up the stair and tried to wash off anyone that
was still trying to escape from the collapse and
tried to help as many people as I could, this and
that.
                 S. TROJANOWSKI                 4
          I tried to contact the company.  I was
pretty much sure I made contact.  Someone
responded.  I remember hearing "Engine 238," but
it sort of seemed like a response to my calling
them.  I heard everyone was supposedly all right,
which wasn't true, which might not even been a
response to my calls on the handy talky.
          The north tower came down, and I got
hit with some debris.  I remember getting banged
up to the divider by the rig which was in the
street.  I made my way underneath the scaffolding
again and just tried to outlast the collapse,
which I thought was just another bomb going off.
          I'm trying to remember of anyone who's
still missing or was missing that I had seen.  I
can't recall.
     Q.   Did your unit come back, your guys come
back to the rig at some time?
     A.   After the second collapse I radioed
again to see if they're okay.  I had a response,
or all I caught was part of a response.  I
thought it was them again.  So I started looking
around for them.  I went to the north overpass.
          The response supposedly mentioned they
                 S. TROJANOWSKI                 5
were at the north overpass.  I looked around
underneath the overpass, because it was partially
collapsed on the south side, rigs sticking out on
the north side, burning, this and that.  No one
there.
          I was trying to put out some fires.  I
used about 20 extinguishers.  I tried to put out
car fires there, and some of the rigs burning.  I
tried to keep it from escalating even worse just
in case we had people trapped in there still
alive so they don't burn to death.
          The debris on Vesey between Vesey and
number Seven World Trade Center, three and a half
was the seven, and a couple of civilians helped
me stretch that.  We had a little bit of water in
the three and a half that was stretched from
another company north of me on West Street.  The
tower ladder was in front of Six World Trade
Center, I guess, because it was just north of the
pedestrian bridge.  We couldn't put it out.  It
was five or six stories high, the debris, I'm
going to say.
          I helped tried to get a couple of
firemen out of the debris and managed to work
                 S. TROJANOWSKI                 6
with other firemen to get one fireman out.  He
was in cardiac arrest, bleeding.  About five
surgeons were dropped off in the area that came
over to me, asking where they could respond,
where they could help, this and that.
          I knew the command post on Liberty
Street was annihilated or whatever you want to
call it.  One of them went with the ambulance
with an unconscious fireman to the hospital.  The
other one -- I had no clue where the command post
was because there's no way of getting through on
the radio.
Q. Right.
     A.   There were all the important messages,
maydays and everything.  Unless you have a mayday
I guess you don't want to interrupt important
transmissions.  So I just kept on looking for our
guys, which took a while for me to find, a couple
hours.  I went all around.
     Q.   You walked around looking for them?
     A.   Yeah.  I went and actually met up with
some of the guys from our firehouse on Church
Street.  The last transmission I heard was north
of the pedestrian overpass, the north overpass.
                 S. TROJANOWSKI                 7
I walked around there for a while, asked the guys
that I knew.  They said they had seen two of our
guys, so I knew at least two of the guys were
alive.  I just kept on looking.  When we met up,
we came back to West Street where my rig was just
to see what I could do.
          There were a lot of things in between
that come to my mind now.  I helped them stretch
a line from the rig north of me to the tower
ladder.  Everyone was doing what they could.
Later on we helped a marine company, because we
had no supply of water at all on the west side.
So we helped the marine company with three and a
half inch hose.  We got them off other rigs.  We
supplied a pumper, I guess it would be, on North
End Avenue.
     Q.   Stretched a line from the marine
company onto North End Avenue?
     A.   North End Avenue.  We managed to get a
pumper that was still working.  We drove it over
there.  A chauffeur from that company stayed with
that.  Actually he wasn't the chauffeur that
responded with the company, but he was from that
company and he was a chauffeur.
                 S. TROJANOWSKI                 8
          So he manned that rig while we helped
to stretch a three and a half from that pumper to
the other pumper which was closer to West.  I was
like in-line pumping to get some supply of water.
     Q.   After the tower two went down, where
were you after the first one went down?
     A.   I was there the whole time.
     Q.   Still up by Barclay Street?
     A.   Yeah, at Barclay.  That's where our rig
was, on West between Vesey and Barclay; actually
closer to Barclay, close to the corner.
Q. Right.
     A.   Because the hydrant I had was around
the corner on Barclay.
     Q.   Did you ever see the command post where
Ganci was or the chaplain or anything?
A. No.
     Q.   After the first building went down, did
you see companies, where they were, any
particular firemen or companies, where they were
working or anything like that?  No, you were
remote; right?  At least a block away?
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   Okay.
                 S. TROJANOWSKI                 9
     A.   There were a lot of cops in the area.
     Q.   Yeah.
     A.   Scattering.
     Q.   How did you wrap it up?  Total debris,
you were hooked up over here, you stretched all
these lines?  You worked there into the night,
would you say?  You worked there all day?
     A.   Yeah, I was there.  Yeah, I was there
until Wednesday.  I found our officer just south
of the pedestrian north overpass.
     Q.   Late in the day when you found him?
     A.   Yeah.  Actually someone else mentioned
they found him late in the day.  It was dark
already.
     Q.   Did 238 guys get together all at once
or in dribs and drabs they got together or did
you find each other at the scene?
     A.   Yeah, we were looking for each other.
Actually everybody was looking for each other,
from what I heard.
     Q.   How late did you stay at the scene?
     A.   Until Wednesday.  I got banged around a
little when the second one came down, the north
one.  There was debris flying this and there.
much.
       S. TROJANOWSKI                10
I really don't like to talk about it
     CHIEF MALKIN:  This concludes the
interview with fireman Trojanowski, Engine
238.  I thank him for the interview.  The
time is now 1826 hours.
File No. 9110293
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER DAVID KELNHOFER
   Interview Date:  December 10, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
D. KELNHOFER
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KING:  Today's date is
December 10th, 2001.  The time is 1815 hours and this
is Battalion Chief Stephen King, Safety Battalion,
FDNY.  I am conducting an interview with Firefighter
David Kelnhofer from Engine 221, control man on
September 11th, 2001.  This interview is regarding the
events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Okay, Dave.  You can start whenever you
want.
     A.   Basically, we came to work that morning.
Everything was normal.  We saw on the TV that the first
tower was hit.  We normally go into Manhattan, so we
started to get ready, figuring that we were going to
get sent there.  Then we saw the second plane had hit,
and right after we saw that on the TV, we got the
ticket over the computer to go to Manhattan.  So we
grabbed our stuff.  Pauley Warhola, who was getting off
the night before, had jumped on our rig as an extra
man, as a fifth man.
          We went down.  We were told to go over the
Manhattan Bridge.  We went over the Manhattan Bridge.
We ended up parking the rig on Broadway close to Dey
Street, I believe, looking at the map here, and we left
the rig with the chauffeur there.  Then we walked down
D. KELNHOFER
3
Dey Street, I believe, or Fulton, down Vesey.  We were
told to report to the command center by the World
Financial Center on the opposite side of the Trade
Center.  We walked completely around and ended up right
by the World Financial Center, I believe it was the
first one, right in front of the north tower.
          We stopped there.  We took our gear off to
take a break while the captain went up to get an
assignment from the command post.  He went up to the
command post, got an assignment, came back.  We were
supposed to go into the south tower, I believe.  Just
as we started to put our gear back on, the first tower
collapsed.
          We ran down the loading ramp of the building,
through the loading ramp, up the opposite side of the
building, up the stairway.  We tried to get out the
stairway in the rear of the building.  We were trapped
there for a while and then finally it cleared a little
bit.  We made our way out of the building, across the
courtyard and down towards the piers, through the
marina and down towards the piers.
          Okay.  Here is the building here, yes, the
second World Financial Center.  That's the building
there.  We made it through there.  We ended up on the
D. KELNHOFER
4
piers with a group of, I guess, like 100 firemen.  We
stopped there for a minute.  Then we regrouped.  We got
all our men together because we were separated a little
bit.
          We started to make our way back down to the
basement to recover some gear.  We figured we'd go help
in the rescue operation.  Before we could do that, the
second building came down.  We ended up going back
towards the pier, towards the water.  We stood there
for a little while, regrouped again.
          We left there, went back to the building,
made our way into that basement with a search rope,
recovered our gear, came back out, and then we were
told to go on West Street to the new command post.  We
stood at West Street for a while for another
assignment.  That's basically it.
     Q.   You didn't really see any guys, individuals
you remember who might be missing?
     A.   No, nothing like that.  We went in front of
the command post that everybody got killed at, but we
were waiting.  The captain went up to the command post
to get the assignment.  We kind of waited in the back.
So I really didn't see anybody actually at the command
post.  We were on the other side of the street.
D. KELNHOFER
5
          We had picked another guy up.  I don't know
whether he was lost or came in on his own.  I don't
remember his name.  He stayed with us most of the time,
until the collapse, he went to the pier, and then he
ended up regrouping with somebody else, I don't know
whether his own company or what.
     Q.   Do you know his company?
     A.   No.  I'm not sure.
     Q.   Sounds like a guy I talked to the other night
  from either 211 or 119.
     A.   No.  I would have remembered that.  It
definitely wasn't a company around the battalion here
because I would have remembered that.  But he was kind
of lost, so he hooked up with us.  The captain said
"follow me" just so at least someone had a record of
him being with somebody.  The captain probably would
remember.  But after the first one collapsed and we ran
through the building, we kind of lost him.
Q. Okay.
     A.   That's about it.  We ended up staying at West
Street for a while.  They didn't have an assignment for
us, so we worked our way back to Broadway.  We found
our rig.  We didn't find our chauffeur.  We found out
later the chauffeur was hurt in the collapse, that he
D. KELNHOFER
6
was taken in an ambulance.  So we had gotten back on
our rig and we ended up doing a four-pumper relay.
     Q.   Who was your chauffeur?
     A.   Warren Monroe.  He was hurt.  He'll be out on
three-quarters.  He's still in therapy.
          We ended up getting our pumper back, getting
it operational, and we were doing a four-pumper relay
to a tower ladder and a hand line into the Trade
Center.  They were doing a rescue operation and a tower
ladder operation.  So we were working both of those.  I
was working I think it was Squad 44 rig.  I'm pretty
sure that's what it was.  I was working that rig.  One
of our chauffeurs that came afterwards took our rig,
and then there were two other pumpers, 290 and somebody
else down the road.  Because the hydrants were so far
away, we had four pumpers feeding the tower ladder and
the rescue hand line.
          We stayed there until about 8:00, 9:00
o'clock in the morning, and then we worked our way back
to the firehouse.  That's about it.
          BATTALION CHIEF KING:  All right, Dave.
Thank you.  The time is 1821 hours and this interview
is concluded.
File No. 9110294
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         FIREFIGHTER JOSEPH RAE
   Interview Date:  December 10, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
J. RAE
2
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Today's date is
December 10th, 2001.  The time is 2:30 p.m.  I am
Battalion Chief Robert Burns, Safety Battalion, New
York City Fire Department.  I am conducting an
interview with --
          FIREFIGHTER RAE:  Joseph Rae, Engine 255.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  This is in regards to
the events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   If you could tell us in your own words, Joe,
what happened.
     A.   Myself, Steve Altini from 24 Engine and Craig
Monahan from 5 Truck took Craig's truck into the Trade
Center.  We came through the Battery Tunnel.  We drove
north on West to about I'd say 90 West is the building
where we pulled over and there's green scaffolding
there.  We pulled over.  We got out of the pickup.
Steve Altini went to 10 and 10 to get gear.  Me and
Craig Monahan got out of the rig.  We put our gear on
and we started walking north on West Street.
          As we kept approaching towards the Trade
Center, there were all the rigs parked left and right.
We went under the first pedestrian bridge, which would
be about Liberty Street.  We knew they were riding
heavy, the engines and trucks, because we were looking
J. RAE
3
for masks and tools and there were no masks.  Even the
four-man engines didn't have any masks in them, and I
knew they were riding heavy because it was change of
tours.
          When we got about, I would say, the Vista
Hotel, right there, we saw the 1st Battalion parked
there and we saw I think it was 10 Truck.  I'm not too
sure.  There was a truck parked there.  We kept
walking.  We got to about, I would say, probably around
the second pedestrian bridge, over there, where we
encountered Rescue 1, the 2nd Battalion, we saw 5
Truck, we saw 3 Truck, I think 1 Engine was there, too,
and in front of that was 18 Engine, which was towards
the south.  That's where we found our masks.  We took
the masks out of 18 Engine.
          We put the masks on.  We started walking
north to just about the second footbridge, which would
be 6 World Trade, and all of a sudden we heard the
explosion and the building started to come down and I
ran up --
     Q.   Which tower?
     A.   2 World Trade Center started to collapse.  We
ran and I dove under a rig and I lost sight of Craig
Monahan.  I don't know where he went.  I dove under a
J. RAE
4
rig.  I'm not sure what the number was, but I dove
under a rig.  It came down.  I got back up.  After
about ten minutes, it cleared.  There was a hose line
in the street.  We were hosing each other off.
          I met up with Craig Monahan again and he said
come on, come on, let's take 5 Truck's rig because
there's guys on 6 World Trade, on the Customs Building,
there's a little balcony there.  So we moved the
tiller.  He told me turn the wheel all the way to the
right.  We backed the rig up.  We put the rig up.  We
put the ladder up.  There was a couple of Port
Authority cops, a couple of firemen, I'm not too sure
from where.
          We got up the pedestal, and then the second
one came down, and once it started to come down, we
ran.  I ran up north towards about Vesey Street where
12 Truck was parked on the corner of Vesey on, it would
be the east side of the street.  I dove under there and
then the Trade Center, the second one came down.  That
would be 1 World Trade came down.  We climbed out of
there and we started walking back to see where all the
collapses were.
          What I forgot to mention was, when we were
walking north before the first collapse, I actually saw
J. RAE
5
that command post.  I saw Chief Ganci.  There were I'd
say about maybe eight people there.  I saw Chief
Ganci.  I saw Chief Feehan.  The two of them were
there.  They were actually moving the command post back
a little ways because they were moving it with maybe
his driver or something.  But they were all standing
there and they were trying to push the thing back.
          After the first collapse, I didn't see the
command post after that.  After the second one
collapsed, I crawled out of 12 Truck and we started
back to see if we could find anybody because it was
only me -- I lost sight of Craig Monahan after the
second collapse.  It was only me and two or three Port
Authority cops and a civilian.  That was all that was
left that I saw from where I was standing, which would
be the second footbridge by 6 World Trade, north.
There was nobody else standing after that.
          So then we went back.  We got through, and I
met with Ray Reilly, who was a Lieutenant in 248, and
we were trying to get up onto 6 World Trade because
there was a guy on the top floor of 6 World Trade
hanging out the window.  So I tried to move 12 Truck.
I couldn't get 12 Truck started.  It wouldn't move.
Then all of a sudden the chauffeur came and moved it,
J. RAE
6
but they still couldn't get it.  They still couldn't
get him.
          So we took the portable ladder off of 24
Engine's rig, put it up there, and we started up, where
I met with my captain and a couple of guys from 255 up
there, and we took a window and we went inside of 6
World Trade Center.  They were carrying out the guy
from Rescue 1.  I don't know his name.  But they were
carrying him out.  We helped them carry him out, and
then we stretched a hand line into 6 World Trade Center
to about the 4th floor to knock down some fire.  Then
we went back down and we were knocking all the car
fires down and we were just looking for people.
          We scuttled back towards what would be like
where the Winter Garden is, over there, and that's
where I met up with the rest of the guys from 255 and
Ladder 157, and we started digging and we found Chief
Ganci and Chief Feehan there.  Then after that we just
kept just digging for people, you know, for the
brothers.
          Actually, it all happened so fast.  They say
it took like 40 minutes between or whatever.  Still it
was just very fast the way everything went.  Then I was
there until 9:00, 9:30 at night.  I got there about,
J. RAE
7
I'd say, right before the first collapse, enough time
for me to get out of the truck, walk north with my gear
on, right under the footbridge, right to about here, to
about right in front of the 6 World Financial Center,
when No. 2 World Trade Center came down.  That was it.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Okay.  Thanks, Joe.
That concludes our interview.  It's 2:37 p.m.
File No. 9110295
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
     FIREFIGHTER CHRISTOPHER FENYO
   Interview Date:  December 11, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
C. FENYO
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today's date is
December 11, 2001.  The time is 12:31.  This is
Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan of the Safety Battalion
of the Fire Department of the City of New York.  I'm
conducting an interview with Christopher Fenyo of
Engine 35 in the quarters of Engine 35.
     Q.   Chris, just tell us what you saw on September
11th.
     A.   This is Firefighter 6th Grade Christopher
Fenyo.  I live at North Moore and Greenwich Street.  On
the morning of September 11, I had dropped my
girlfriend off at the subway at Chambers and walked
home, and at a quarter to 9:00 I was in the elevator of
my building when the first plane hit.  I didn't hear
anything.  We face north.
          When I got into the apartment, I heard FD
going down the West Side Highway.  I pretty much
figured the only ones that go down the West Side
Highway are probably rescue, so I took a look out the
window to see if they were going to a job nearby.  I
saw a few hundred people standing in Greenwich Street
pointing up, so I figured there was a job and I'd go
buff it out.  I still had no idea.
          So I took the elevator down.  I walked out
C. FENYO
3
onto Greenwich Street and I looked up and saw the north
tower, this is about maybe five to 9:00.  I ran back
into my apartment, up ten flights of stairs, grabbed my
backup gear and started running down Greenwich Street.
At this point there were about ten floors of fire and
my first thought was I have no idea how we're going to
put this out.  I got about three blocks running flat
out and I saw a guy on a motorcycle and we both had the
same idea.  He told me to jump on.  He drove me down to
Vesey and West.
          At the corner of Vesey and West, I went up to
the first Battalion Chief I saw and asked him what I
should do.  He said to stand fast at the manpower pool
and he pointed to a spot about 100 feet away from him
where there were some men gathering.
          As rigs came down the West Side Highway, I
kept going up to them asking if there was an extra
helmet.  I finally got some luck with Engine 39.  They
were already in the building, so I was with the
chauffeur, Arthur, for that time being.
          There was an explosion at the top of the
Trade Center and a piece of Trade Center flew across
the West Side Highway and hit the Financial Center, and
Arthur went to hook up with another chauffeur to the
C. FENYO
4
Financial Center.  His rig was parked in the southbound
lanes of the West Side Highway just north of the north
pedestrian bridge.
          At this point a Battalion Chief looked at me,
saw 39 on my helmet and told me to move my rig in front
of 1 World Trade Center to supply water to the
standpipe.  I said yes, sir, but I didn't want to move
the rig.  Even though I wasn't 39, I probably could
have moved the rig.  I back-pedaled, looked around the
rig to see Arthur.  As I was coming back to the front
of the rig, the Battalion Chief, I guess he got a
little impatient.  He jumped in the rig and moved it
himself over to in front of 1 World Trade Center.
          About 30 seconds later, Arthur came back and
looked at me and said where the hell is the rig?  I
said it's across the street.  At that point the rig was
essentially in a hailstorm of glass.  There were bodies
hitting the canopy of the Marriott at that point, I
guess, right between 1 and 3 World Trade, or actually
that was the canopy of 1 World Trade.  He saw the
situation, saw we weren't going to be able to hook up
without getting hurt, so we ran across the West Side
Highway, jumped in the rig, and we pulled it back
across the highway to the southbound side just north of
C. FENYO
5
the pedestrian bridge, as it was before, only now the
rig was facing north.
          When I stepped off the rig, probably about 20
after, 25 after 9:00, I ran into George Reese of 80
Engine, who was also off duty.  He was responding into
his second job when he came up from the subway.  He had
gone to the quarters at 10 and 10 and gotten gear.  At
that point I told Arthur that I had met someone from my
company and that I was going to go with him.  He said
be safe, and I went off with George Reese to the
command post on the loading dock between 3 and 2 World
Financial Center, just underneath the Winter Garden,
where Chief Ganci had his command post at the top of
the ramp.
          We were there for about ten minutes.  George
went off to talk to the Chiefs to find out what we
could do.  I was standing there alone.  There were
several companies down the ramp behind me.  One of them
I believe was 76 Engine, there was 211 Engine, about
50, 60 men, various states of dress.
          About a couple minutes after George came back
to me is when the south tower from our perspective
exploded from about midway up the building.  We all
turned and ran into the garage.  At that point I banked
C. FENYO
6
down to the floor.  We were trapped for a little while
in there.  We went off to the right.  There's a big,
big loading dock underneath there.  You could probably
fit three or four tractor-trailers with the doors
closed.
We ran off into a dead end, realized it. At that point the smoke had gotten down to the floor and someone, who I found out later was the engine officer from 76 Engine, had put down a search rope. A lot of us got out through the staircase by that rope. At that point we discovered that we were inside a fire staircase with all metal doors, metal frames, opening outward, and none of us had tools. There were a lot of calls down to go get tools. But at some point there was a facilities guy there from the Financial Center whohadakey. Heletusoutonthewatersideof2 World Financial in between 2 and the Winter Garden.
          At that point there was a lot of confusion.
There was heavy ash in the air and on the ground.  We
made our way over towards the river.  At that point
there were a lot of guys cut up, some broken bones, a
lot of civilians getting on the ferries.  We helped
some of the civilians get on the ferries.
          At that point a debate began to rage because
C. FENYO
7
the perception was that the building looked like it had
been taken out with charges.  We had really no concept
of the damage on the east side of 2 World Trade Center
at that point, and at that point many people had felt
that possibly explosives had taken out 2 World Trade,
and officers were gathering companies together and the
officers were debating whether or not to go immediately
back in or to see what was going to happen with 1 World
Trade at that point.  The debate ended pretty quickly
because 1 World Trade came down.
          At that point we ran up through Battery Park,
through the north part of Battery Park, where I lost
George because I stopped to pick up a civilian who had
sprained her ankle and wasn't able to run.  At that
point, after carrying her up to Chambers Street and the
water, her friends assisted her, I believe, onto a
ferry at that point.  But we were out of the danger of
the collapse of 1 World Trade.
          I made my way around to Stuyvesant High
School.  I still wasn't able to find George.  I learned
later on that he was all right.  He had hooked up with
another company and they had gone back and started
working on Vesey near the Customs Building.  I made my
way with 211 Engine and a couple of other folks.  We
C. FENYO
8
essentially just picked gear from here and there,
picked up masks, picked up gloves, picked up bottles,
tools, and we worked the rest of the night.  That's
pretty much it.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Okay.  The time now
is 12:39 and this concludes the interview.
File No. 9110296
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER FRANK MACCHIA
   Interview Date:  December 11, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time is 10:53
     a.m., and this is Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan,
     safety battalion of the Fire Department of the
     City of New York.
          I'm conducting an interview with Frank
     Macchia, firefighter 1st, from Ladder 43 in the
     quarters of Ladder 43.
     Q.   Frank, just explain to us what you saw on
September 11.
     A.   After arriving on the Westside Highway, what
I know to be the collapse, after the collapse of the
south tower, Ladder 43 and myself were in a position
approximately between north of Vesey Street on West
Street when Tower No. 1 collapsed.
          At that point, once we had donned our masks
and retreated to Barclay Street to allow some dust to
settle, to make sure that we weren't caught in any
debris, and then advanced out to the corner of West
Street and Vesey Street.
          At that point, myself, Firefighter Suden,
Firefighter Regan were ordered by the chief to place
into operation a pumper to extinguish Fire Department
vehicles and to make searches of those vehicles.  We
did so and operated that line for approximately 30 to
Macchia
3
45 minutes, simultaneously searching any rigs that we
extinguished, mostly Fire Department vehicles.
          Twelve truck was not on fire.  We searched
that rig, Haz-Mat, both Haz-Mat rigs, 132 truck and a
few rigs that were underneath the pedestrian bridge
south of Vesey Street.
     Q.   Were all the searches negative?
     A.   All the searches were negative except for a
Police Department vehicle where we extricated a Police
Department -- I'm guessing a plainclothes detective or
plainclothes officer.
          At that point, after approximately 45
minutes, myself and Firefighter Long following
Lieutenant Rohan, John Colon and Firefighter
Frederickson up a ladder onto the mezzanine of World
Trade Center No. 6, U.S. Customs building.
          We transported stretchers, a power saw and a
few Stokes baskets up that ladder by orders of a
chief -- at this time, I don't recall his name -- and
proceeded to search in that building, and those
searches were positive.
          We did find a battalion chief and his aide
just inside World Trade Center No. 6.  At that point,
myself and Firefighter Long, along with -- there were a
Macchia
4
couple of other firemen up there, a chief.  We operated
with him, searched into the World Trade Center No. 6
building.
     Q.   The members you found, were they alive or --
     A.   Dead.  Two -- I don't know the names.  A
chief that we had pulled, that was alive, who was --
looked -- appeared to be disoriented, not -- at the
time didn't seem like he was injured in any major way.
          We removed him from World Trade Center No. 6,
took him to the north end of that mezzanine, where
someone had got the bucket of 12 truck into operation,
and we put him in the bucket, and he was removed to the
street.  I recall the name Rappe.  I'm not sure if it
was him, though.  Maybe it's just the chief that I saw
there that day, but from the back of his coat that's
one of the names I remember.
          We then moved into World Trade Center No. 6
with the chief.  I believe that Firefighter Long can
recall what battalion we were with.  We operated with
him for about a half an hour, searching in there.
          We then left that building on our own back
down onto the West Street side, helping extricate and
operate more hose lines and doing other searches of
rigs for the time frame, I can't recall, and then made
Macchia
5
our way underneath that pedestrian bridge, the north
bridge, underneath that north bridge after we had
spent, I guess, between operating the line and
searching that World Trade Center No. 6, has to have
been almost two hours gone by now, listening, hearing
the Ladder 6 Maydays throughout, went back down via the
12 truck basket down to the street underneath the foot
bridge and tried to make our way up to where the rest
of our members were operating in that separate
stairwell.
          And that's what we did the entire day.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Thanks a lot,
     Frank, for all your help.
          The time now is 10:58, and this concludes the
     interview.
File No. 9110297
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER DEAN NELIGAN
   Interview Date:  December 11, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS: Today's date is
     December 11, 2001.  The time is 12:07 p.m.  I'm
     Chief Robert Burns, New York City Fire Department,
     conducting an interview with --
          FIREFIGHTER NELIGAN:  Firefighter Dean
     Neligan, Engine 262.
     Q.   This is in regards to the events of September
11, 2001.
          If you would, Dean, just tell us in your own
words what happened that day.
     A.   Well, about at 8:45 that morning, the first
plane hit the trade center, which came on the TV.  We
were all in the kitchen.  We being located in Long
Island City, we knew we'd be going over to Manhattan,
whether to the trade center or relocation, so we more
or less got ready to go.
          I believe at 9:02 we got a ticket in, which
sent us to the entrance to the Midtown Tunnel, so we
proceeded to the Midtown Tunnel.
          In the process of going to the Midtown
Tunnel, the second plane hit, which we were not aware
of.  There was no communication on the rig of a second
plane hitting the second tower.
          We actually were at our staging area for what
Neligan
3
seemed to be 30 to 40 minutes waiting for them to close
down the Midtown Tunnel and the Westside Highway,
apparently set up a route for us to proceed through.
We were probably about a dozen rigs, all from the Long
Island City area.
          As we started going through -- as we actually
staged there, then we heard word that the Pentagon was
hit, and there was a second plane that hit the second
tower.
          As we started through the tunnel, is
apparently when the first tower came down, because we
heard a chauffeur in his rig saying there's been a
collapse.  He was stuck in his rig.  He didn't say it
was the tower that came down.  I assumed it was some
sort of facade that came down, not realizing it was the
whole tower.
          We then proceeded to go through the tunnel,
made our way to the Westside Highway, one rig after the
other.  We parked on the Westside Highway.  We
proceeded down the Westside Highway towards the towers,
not knowing the first tower was down.
          We made it to Vesey and West and more or less
paused there looking for some sort of direction,
because there was no command post.  There was nobody
Neligan
4
more or less giving directions on where to go, what to
do.
          At that point, I looked up.  I saw the second
tower.  I said to one of the brothers with me, that
it's so smoky, you can't even see the first tower, not
even knowing the first tower was down to the ground.
          From our angle, the second tower was closest
to us, so between the tower being behind that one and
the smoke, I just assumed you couldn't see it from the
smoke.
          As we were staged at Vesey and West is when
the second tower began to come down.  At that point, I
thought it was just the top of the building coming
down, the antenna.  Didn't make a move initially.  Then
everybody started making a move for safety.  I
proceeded to follow.
          I was able to duck in behind an ESU unit,
which was about 20 or 30 yards back down the Westside
Highway, got behind that, was involved in the coverage
and the darkness, which seemed about five to six, seven
minutes, and then the area cleared.
          There was a parking lot on the right of us
that was about 20 cars on fire.  We stretched a line
off of 220's rig, which was parked right there and
Neligan
5
proceeded to operate trying to put out the car fires
because of the tremendous amount of black smoke that
was coming back towards us at the Westside Highway.
          We operated there for about an hour,
hour-and-a-half with whatever little water we could get
and no tools.
          At that point, we then proceeded back to our
rig, which was back at the walkway further east behind
us, and then more or less we just stayed there for many
hours waiting for instructions.
     Q.   When you were there, when the second tower
came down, did you see any rigs that you could identify
or any people?
     A.   Not offhand.  There were rigs parked one
after the other along the Westside Highway, and where I
ducked in was near this ESU unit, police vehicle, and
then 220's rig happened to be there that we could
stretch a line off.
          First I found my officer.  Then we proceeded
to find two other members from our unit, which were a
little further back, and then we started operating at
the -- in the lot with the car fires.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Thanks, Dean.  That
     concludes our interview.  It's 2:12 p.m.
File No. 9110298
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER WILLIAM VAN NAME
   Interview Date:  December 11, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN: The date is December
     11, 2001.  The time is 11:57, and this is
     Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan from the safety
     battalion of the Fire Department of the City of
     New York.
          I'm conducting an interview with William
     VanName, firefighter 1st, from Engine 35, and the
     interview is taking place in the quarters of
     Engine 35.
     Q.   William, please tell us the events of
September 11 as you recall them.
     A.   On September 11, we were at educational day
at Randall's Island.  The entire company was out of
service.
          We were notified that a plane hit the World
Trade Center, to stand by, and then the instructor came
in and said another plane had hit the tower.  We are on
total recall.  Go back to your company and man your
rigs.
          So we did.  We got back to 35 engine's
quarters.  We were told to wait there for six engines
to arrive.  We were the staging area for six engines,
some from the Bronx and some from north Manhattan.
Five engines showed.  We were waiting for 83 engine,
VanName
3
which didn't show up.  They were on their way down West
Street, halfway down at 50 something street.  The
dispatcher returned them to our quarters when they
arrived here.
          Then we all went in a convoy down West Street
to the World Trade Center.  Driving down West Street,
we observed the towers, both on fire.  Both were still
standing.  By the time we arrived down the end of West
Street, around Chambers or so, one tower had
collapsed.  I believe it was --
     Q.   The south tower?
     A.   -- the south tower.  We gave a 1084.  We got
up to -- we were on West Street between Vesey and
Murray, where the rig was positioned.  We took all our
gear.  Everybody that was on the rig -- there was five
men on the rig and two on the back step at that time.
          We manned all our gear.  We went down.  We
started walking down West Street towards the World
Trade Center.  When we got to between Vesey and the
pedestrian overpass, the north pedestrian overpass, we
heard a fantastic rumble.  Everybody looked up, and as
we observed it, the second tower started to collapse.
          The time frame of that, I'm not sure.  It was
probably between 10:10 and 10:30, somewhere around
there.
VanName
4
          As we observed the tower falling, most people
stood there and watched for a couple of seconds, and
then as the cloud of smoke and the debris started
coming at us, we all dropped our equipment and gear and
we ran for shelter down West Street north on West
Street.
          We ended up in the high school on the west
side.  We stayed there for a few moments until we could
get our company together and the lieutenant can make
sure he had the roll call and everybody was present.
          We started heading down towards World Trade
Center again, and we had assisted and helped with EMS
and helped the brothers -- police, firemen,
civilians -- to the ambulances and take them out of the
immediate area.
          At that time we were separated.  Our company
was separated.  I ended up staying with Firefighter Jim
Powers.  He was overcome by the smoke cloud and
debris.  He went down.  He became light-headed, and he
fainted.  I got EMS to assist there.  They treated him,
and they felt he should go to the hospital.
          I was with him at that time.  We got on a
bus.  We went to St. Vincent's.  He was admitted.  We
VanName
5
stayed there for two hours under observation.  He was
released.  We immediately came back to where our rig
was positioned on West Street, and we found our
company, and after that the lieutenant said we were on
standby.
          I was notified that our two chiefs from the
12th Battalion were missing, and -- could you stop it
for a minute, please?
          (Recess taken.)
     A.   Also while we were responding down West
Street to the World Trade Center, we heard a Mayday
given by, I believe, an engine company chauffeur that
was trapped in the collapse inside the rig.
          As we arrived at the staging area, we also
saw the dust cloud and the debris that had already been
from the first tower on the ground.  That's it.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  All right, thank
     you very much.  That's fine.
File No. 9110299
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       LIEUTENANT ROBERT DORRITIE
   Interview Date:  December 11, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
R. DORRITIE 2
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today's date is
     December 11, 2001.  The time is 9:56 a.m.,
     and this is Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan
     from the Safety Battalion of the Fire
     Department of the City of New York.  I'm
     conducting an interview with Lieutenant
     Robert Dorritie, Engine 53, in the quarters
     of Engine 53.
     Q.   Robert, just tell us what you know
about the events of September 11th.
     A.   Well, I'll just start from the
beginning, I guess.  We were sitting here
watching the television, and we saw the first
plane hit.  At that time I said, oh, we'll be
going.  We kind of got our gear together and
thrown on the rig.
          The second plane hit, and I guess about
two or three minutes afterwards, about 9:09, is
when we had the alarm come in on the second fifth
alarm.  We were the fourth due engine on the
second fifth alarm.
          So we took off right away.  We cut
through the park, got over to Twelfth Avenue.
Twelfth Avenue had already been closed by the New
R. DORRITIE 3
York City Police Department.  We were down in the
World Trade Center -- I gave a 1084 about 9:18.
So it only took us about nine minutes to get down
there.
          When we got down there, I went over to
the command post, which was located across the
street from the north tower, we reported in to
the command post.  At that time we were ordered
to go back by a Captain Supek, I believe his name
was.  He orders us to go back onto West Street
and to remove two rigs that were blocking West
Street.  So we ran back and we moved the two
rigs.
          We came back again to the command post.
At that time we received our orders to go into
the south tower.  They said start making your way
up on the south tower, tower number two.  I
turned around, looked for my men, and they were
in front of who I believe was a Franciscan
priest.  He was giving them absolution, and they
were accepting absolution from him.
          I said, "Okay, guys, we've got to get
going."  I don't know if it was Father Judge or
not; it could have been.  He went towards the
R. DORRITIE 4
north tower at that time and started walking
across the street.  I kind of cut him off at the
pass and said, "What about me, Father?"  He said,
"It includes everybody.  Absolution includes
everybody here."
          I got my guys and started walking
across West Street.  I guess we got about
three-quarters of the way across when we were
deciding which way to go into the south tower.
That's when I looked up, and the tower started
coming down, which at the time I said I thought
it was a secondary device.  I had warned the guys
about secondary devices on the way down and to be
careful of that.
          So when I originally saw it -- and then
I realized the building was coming down.  We ran
back across the street and into the garage, the
parking garage, underneath Two World Financial
Center, the Merrill Lynch building, I guess.  We
ran in there.
          Eventually there was a little confusion
down there, but we found our way out the back.
We sent a search line, a search rope, up from
there, a couple of the companies, and we ran it
R. DORRITIE 5
back out to the front of the building.  Then I
went back into the building, back through the
World Trade Center.
          I came out, and that's when I saw Chief
Cassano there.  I saw I believe it was Chief
Ganci on the corner.  That's when I heard the
transmission of a mayday from Ladder 21.  I don't
know who it was.  Couldn't get through.  But I
heard the transmission from Ladder 21.
          At that time after hearing that
transmission, I decided to go back, get my men,
who I left back over here behind the Winter
Garden area, in that parking area back there,
because I thought that was a good place for that,
and there was a lot of people starting to gather.
          As I came back through the garage, I
didn't even know I was outside for a while, it
was so dark.  So I came back through the garage
again, got some of my guys.  When I told them
that there were guys out front yet and that they
were making their way north and that I was afraid
the pedestrian bridge was going to collapse,
being that I also thought the north tower was
going to collapse.
R. DORRITIE 6
          So one of the guys, Louis Giaconelli,
says, "No, no, don't you go back in.  I'll go
back in and see if I can get anybody to come back
that way."  He went in there, and as guys came
out of the parking garage, we directed them back
around North Street onto Vesey Street.  We stayed
here, me and Firefighter Ed Cachia, stayed here.
     Q.   Here where?  In the rear?
     A.   In the rear of the Two World Financial
Center.  As people came out of the Winter Garden,
we directed them around here.  They also were
coming around on the outside.  From Two World
Trade Center, guys were coming from this side.  I
saw Captain Yakimovich, Pete came around this
side, a couple other guys.  I tried to get
information on who was trapped and where they
were trapped.
          I don't really remember that much, but
Louis ran into the building then to see if he
could get more guys out this way.
     Q.   Out of the garage?
     A.   Out of the garage, and outside the
front of the building, because a lot of guys did
survive the first collapse, they didn't go into
R. DORRITIE 7
the parking garage but they went north towards
the pedestrian way.
          But I was arguing to a couple people
out there that I thought the best way out was
this way through the rear of the World Financial
Center, back through the rear and out through
this way, because we had the protection of the
building and also it seemed to be a safe area
underneath the parking garage out in the back
because it was so substantial.
          I figured if this tower collapses --
this tower is going to collapse, and the best
place for us to get away from this as quickly as
possible, being that if we went north on West
Street we would wind up at the pedestrian bridge.
So I decided not to.
          Louis Giaconelli is back now in Winter
Garden and in that area.  Myself and Eddie Cachia
are back here.  There was nobody else coming out.
At that moment I said to Eddie, "We've got to get
out of here because this building is going to
come down."  Within 30 seconds of me saying that,
the building comes down.
          Me and Eddie Cachia run back here along
R. DORRITIE 8
the benches over here and take cover behind these
benches.
     Q.   Near the water?
     A.   Yeah, near the water.  We ran back
here, hid behind the benches.  It gets pretty
cloudy, but it's not too bad back there.
          After that collapse, now I'm worried
about Louis Giaconelli, who I had left in the
building.  So we get out and we start making our
way back into Two World Financial Center, and we
find Louis Giaconelli bringing three or four
people out.  So he guided three or four people
out.  He also mask shared with somebody.
          I said, "All right, Louis, let's get
ourselves together and whoever else we have here
and let's get ourselves out of harm's way."  And
we walked along North Street to Vesey Street, and
we stayed there.  Once I got all my guys together
again, Kevin McGovern, Eddie Cachia, Louis
Giaconelli and Mike Catalano, we all got
together.  I left a couple guys there.
          We made our way back into the south
tower after the collapse.  Really I was trying to
hone in on Ladder 21, since they're the only ones
R. DORRITIE 9
I really heard.  But I really couldn't get
through on the radio.  Every time you got some
kind of mayday or you thought a mayday, it was
covered up by somebody else trying to get through
and you really couldn't get through.  It was very
confusing.  I didn't like the radios at all at
the time.
          We just walked around on the rubble
that day and tried to see what we could do.
Basically that's what happened.
     Q.   Do you have anything else to add?
     A.   I don't think so, no.
     Q.   Well, thanks a lot, Robert.
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time now is 10:05,
     and that concludes the interview.
File No. 9110300
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER STEVEN KLEE
   Interview Date:  December 10, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
S. KLEE 2
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  The date is December
     10, 2001, and the time is 3:15 p.m.   This
     is Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan of the
     Safety Battalion of the Fire Department of
     the City of New York.  I'm conducting an
     interview with Steven Klee, firefighter
     first from Ladder 22.  We're in the quarters
     of Engine 76 to conduct this interview.
     Q.   Steve, please tell me what you remember
from September 11th.
     A.   I remember responding.  I was the
chauffeur of 22.  I got to the scene.  I pulled
in.  I drove down Columbus Avenue down to 24th,
then to West Side Highway.  West Side Highway we
took all the way down.  I remember pulling in
behind 25 Truck.  Then I remember 2 Truck pulling
in behind us.
          We got off the rig, grabbed our
equipment, gear, cylinders, whatever, and started
walking towards the towers, initially walked past
the command post and then walked back to the
command post, stood at the command post I believe
which was across from one for about maybe five
minutes.  Then the lieutenant said, "All right,
S. KLEE 3
we're going in."
          We walked down West Street on I guess
it would be the -- that would be West; right?
Yeah, west side of West Street down to I guess
the south pedestrian bridge, walked underneath
that across and shimmied our way -- or not
shimmied.  How would I describe that?  Ran into
the hotel.
          In the hotel we were told we were going
to get our orders from there.  The lieutenant
said take a blow, just relax, take our stuff off.
We took our stuff off.  Probably about maybe
another five minutes after that, we got geared up
and he said, "All right, we're going."  I didn't
ask the officer exactly where we were going.  We
just started walking.
          We headed towards tower one or into the
hotel into tower one, passed Deputy Chief Galvin
on the way in.  He was with somebody else.  I
don't really remember the chiefs.  He just told
us we were going to the 75th floor.
          We got into tower one, made the turn
into tower one started heading I guess either
towards the elevators or the escalator.  That's
S. KLEE 4
when we heard a rumbling.  I dove for a wall and
it got pitch-black.
          I just basically rode it out until
after the sound and -- how would you describe
that one?  After the (inaudible) stopped.  I
don't know what the heck happened then, how best
to describe it.  I got up.  I thought I was by
myself, and I then just started calling out for
the rest of the company.
          I found the four other guys.  We got
out towards the entrance of one onto West Street.
We couldn't find the lieutenant, so I told the
four of them if they go outside I'll go back in
and look for the lieutenant.
          Four of the guys went out.  I came back
in to look for the lieutenant.  I was searching
for him.  I was trying to get him on the radio.
I couldn't get anybody on the radio.  I kept
going back and forth.  I was grabbing civilians,
bringing them to the front, going back in,
looking around, bringing civilians back out.
          I was bringing some civilians out, and
that's when debris started falling and hitting
the ground.  I brought them back in, gave an
S. KLEE 5
urgent, saying I need help in getting the
civilians out, because I couldn't go out the
hotel.  There was no hotel entrance anymore.  I
couldn't go out through the food mall or whatever
because that was completely caved in.
          I was giving an urgent.  Somebody
answered me.  I told them what it was, and then
they didn't answer, they didn't come back.  All
of a sudden I went back to the main entrance and
I saw a bunch of firemen.  So I figured they came
in to help me, but it wasn't that.  They were
coming from upstairs.
          I asked did they see my lieutenant.
They said no.  That company I remember was
actually 7 Engine, I believe.  They were coming
down.  I think they were missing their control
man at the time.
          I searched for the lieutenant, looked
under the debris and everything, couldn't find
him.  I said he must be out because I should have
been able to see him.
          That's when I got out.  I believe I
remember seeing Feehan.  I believe he was by the
entrance of one.  I walked across the street to a
S. KLEE 6
command post, which when I got there, there
really was nobody there anymore.
          I remember talking to a four-star
chief, telling him what happened.  All he kept
telling me was we're going north, we're going
north.  I said, "I can't find my lieutenant.  I'm
22 chauffeur."  I said, "I can't find my
lieutenant."  He said, "We're going north.  I'm
sending everybody north."  So I said all right.
          That's when I left and I started
walking up the street, trying to find the
rendezvous or whatever what the heck would you
call it?  What do you call it?
     Q.   The staging area?
     A.   Staging area.  I went up there.  I
spoke to a couple of chiefs up on West Side
Highway and West Street.  They said, yeah, guys
are going to the water.
          So I went back down to Vesey, tried to
get to the water.  I guess I got behind the
American Express building.  That's when one came
down.  After everything calmed down from that and
I finally made it to the water, talked to the
field comm., told him who I was missing.  Our can
S. KLEE 7
man showed up there.  So then I only had to find
four more guys.
          I asked them have you seen the
lieutenant?  I went to West Street.  I walked up.
That's basically where I saw the rest of our guys
there.
     Q.   Before the second tower came down, did
you notice anything, a sign that it might be
coming down or anything like that or did you hear
anybody give any warning on the radios or
anything like that?
     A.   No, I was just trying to find out --
no, there was no -- it was still dusty out there,
and you really couldn't see.  I didn't even
realize that two came down.  I thought another
bomb or a plane hit the building.  That's what I
thought it was.  When I got out, debris and paper
was all over.  Like I said, I didn't realize what
happened until after one came down and I put
together what happened when we were in one lobby.
     Q.   Okay.  That's it.
     A.   I think so, yeah.  Quick and easy.
     Q.   Thank you, Steve.  I appreciate your
cooperation.
S. KLEE 8
     CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time now is 3:24
p.m., and this concludes the interview.

FILE NO 9110301
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
FIREFIGHTER
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 11 2001
KEVIN MCGOVERN
TRANSCRIBED BY
LAURIE COLLINS

MCGOVERN
CHIEF KENAHAN THE TIME IS 1024
AND THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF DENNIS KENAHAN
OF THE NEW YORK CITY DEPARTMENT SAFETY BATTALION IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH
KEVIN MCGOVERN FIREFIGHTER FIRST FROM
ENGINE 53 IN THE QUARTERS OF ENGINE 53 KEVIN PLEASE TELL US THE EVENTS OF
SEPTEMBER 11TH AS YOU REMEMBER THEM
WAS WORKING MY SECOND DAY TOUR WE
WERE IN THE KITCHEN AND WE SAW THE FIRST PLANE WATCHING TV OF COURSE THE NEWS CAME ON THAT PLANE HAD HIT ONE OF THE TOWERS OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER SO WE WERE WATCHING TV MONITORING THE RADIO
THEN THERE WAS ANOTHER EXPLOSION IN THE OTHER TOWER THATS WHEN WE GOT CALLED DOWN THERE IT WAS THE SECOND FIFTH ALARM WHEN THE SECOND PLANE HIT AND WE GOT SENT DOWN TO THE TRADE CENTER WE WERE ASSIGNED TO TOWER TWO WHICH WAS THE SOUTH TOWER OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
WE GOT DOWN THERE PRETTY FAST IT MUST HAVE TAKEN ONLY TEN MINUTES TO GET THERE ONCE WE GOT TO THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY IT WAS KIND OF
AM

MCGOVERN
EMPTY AND WE JUST FLEW RIGHT DOWN THERE WE PARKED THE RIG ON WEST STREET APPROXIMATELY BETWEEN MURRAY AND VESEY
THEN WE WALKED DOWN TO WHERE THE COMMAND POST WAS SET UP WHICH WAS IN FRONT OF AN UNDERGROUND GARAGE ENTRANCE IN FRONT OF TWO WORLD
FINANCIAL CENTER SO WE REPORTED IN TO THE COMMAND POST ON WEST STREET AND KIND OF JUST
WAITED THERE AWAITING OUR ORDERS
WE WERE JUST STANDING THERE WATCHING
PEOPLE JUMP NORTH TOWER THERE WAS TOWER ON THE
OUT OF THE WE WERE OPPOSITE THE SO WE JUST KIND OF STOOD THERE
LOT OF JUMPERS COMING FROM THE NORTH WEST STREET SIDE
REALLY DONT KNOW HOW LONG WE WERE TEN MINUTES TO BE HONEST WITH YOU
THERE MAYBE
COULDNT EVEN RECALL WHAT OTHER COMPANIES WERE
AROUND US BUT THERE WERE SEVERAL OTHER COMPANIES
WITH US MOSTLY ENGINE COMPANIES
WITH ALL THE JUMPERS AND STUFF JUST
PUT MY HEAD DOWN AND STOPPED WATCHING THE JUMPERS WAITED THERE WAITING TO SEE WHAT THEY WERE GOING TO DO WITH US
CHIEF CAME OVER TO MY LIEUTENANT

MCGOVERN
LIEUTENANT DORRITIE AND TOLD US TO MOVE SOME
RIGS TO MAKE LANE FOR AMBULANCES COMING SOUTH ON WEST STREET HE WANTED US TO GO BACK NORTH ON WEST STREET BACK TOWARDS WHERE WE HAD OUR RIGS AND JUST ENSURE THAT THERE WAS LANE FOR AMBULANCES TO GET DOWN WEST STREET
SO HE SAID LEAVE ALL OUR EQUIPMENT
THERE AT THE COMMAND POST WHICH WE DID WE LEFT OUR HOSES TOOK OUR MASKS OFF AND WALKED NORTH ON WEST STREET WE ONLY HAD NEEDED TO MOVE
THINK TWO RIGS BECAUSE THEY WERE BLOCKING THE LANE IT REALLY DIDNT TAKE LONG IT TOOK MAYBE 15 MINUTES TO TAKE CARE OF THAT WE MADE THE LANE FOR THE AMBULANCES AND THEN WE HEADED BACK TOWARDS THE COMMAND POST
WE WERE WALKING SOUTH ON WEST STREET BACK TO THE COMMAND POST LIKE SAID HAD MY HEAD DOWN AGAIN ALL OF SUDDEN HEARD LIKE TREMENDOUS THUNDER LOOKED UP AND ALL OF SUDDEN PEOPLE WERE JUST RUNNING TOWARDS ME LOOKED UP AND SURE ENOUGH THE SOUTH TOWER WAS COLLAPSING IT WAS LIKE BIG HUGE WAVE COMING AT US
AT THIS POINT WE WERE RIGHT BEFORE THE

MCGOVERN
COMMAND POST WAS ONIY FEW YARDS IN FRONT OF THE COMMAND POST BUT THERE WAS FENCE BETWEEN THE AREA FOR THE WINTER GARDEN ATRIUM AND WHERE THE COMMAND POST WAS LIEUTENANT DORRITIE WAS IN FRONT OF ME AND TWO FIREFIGHTERS FIREFIGHTER
CACHIA AND FIREFIGHTER GIACONELLI WERE IN FRONT
OF ME TWO OTHER FIREFIGHTERS FROM MY COMPANY WERE BEHIND ME FIREFIGHTER CATALANO AND
FIREFIGHTER SCHOFIELD THEY WERE TWO NEW GUYS ON ROTATION IN THE FIREHOUSE
WHEN SAW THE THING COLLAPSE AND PEOPLE RUNNING TOWARDS ME JUST TURNED AND
LOOKED FOR THE QUICKEST PLACE TO GET COVER INITIALLY THOUGHT OF DUCKING UNDER THE
PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE THAT GOES OVER WEST STREET ON THE NORTH SIDE BUT DECIDED THAT WASNT GOING
TO BE SAFE
SO GARDEN ATRIUM THAT WAY SO
JUST RAN RIGHT INTO THE WINTER
LOT OF PEOPLE WERE RUNNING IN KIND OF JUST RAN IN THERE RAN INSIDE AND REALIZED IT WAS AN ATRIUM SO HAD TO
GET OUT OF THERE IN CASE SOME DEBRIS HAD COME THROUGH THE ATRIUM
SO WE WENT THROUGH THE ATRIUM AND MADE

MCGOVERN
RIGHT ONCE WE GOT INSIDE WHICH THERE WAS SO NOW WE RE HEADING NORTH WITHIN THIS BUILDING
THERE WAS AN EXIT THAT LED OUT TO VESEY STREET THIS IS WHERE RAN INTO FIREFIGHTER CATALANO WHO IS ONE OF THE GUYS THAT WAS WALKING BEHIND
ME AND WAS ASKING HIM DID HE SEE FIREFIGHTER SCHOFIELD HE SAID NO WAS WORRIED ABOUT
SCHOFIELD
WE CAME OUT ONTO VESEY STREET AND WE WERE WALKING AROUND VESEY STREET BUNCH OF
OTHER FIREMEN BUNCH OF CIVILIANS HAD GONE THE SAME ROUTE THROUGH THE WINTER GARDEN AND MADE RIGHT AND NORTH ONTO VESEY STREET
SO THERE WERE BUNCH OF AMBULANCES LINED UP ON VESEY STREET AND ME AND MIKE WERE
WALKING WEST OF VESEY AWAY FROM THE CLOUD ON WEST STREET AND WE NOTICED SCHOFIELD IN ONE OF
THE AMBULANCES
WE FOUND OUT HOW HE WAS DOING HE WAS
HYPERVENTILATING HE WAS TAKING OXYGEN INSIDE THE AMBULANCE WE STAYED WITH HIM FOR WHILE
MADE SURE HE WAS ALL RIGHT HE SAID HE WAS FEELING BETTER AFTER HE TOOK SOME OXYGEN HE
SAID HE WAS GOING TO COME WITH US SO HE GOT OUT

MCGOVERN
OF THE AMBULANCE AND WALKED WITH US WEST ON VE
WE CAME OUT ONTO NORTH END AVENUE
HERE RAN INTO ANOTHER FIREMAN THAT WAS COVERED
IN SOOT AND WE STAYED WITH HIM HE WAS CHOKING ON GUESS THE DUST AND STUFF HE ALMOST SOUNDED LIKE CAT WITH HAIRBALL HE WAS JUST TRYING
TO GET THE STUFF OUT CLEAR HIS OWN THROAT
STAYED WITH HIM AND WAS ENCOURAGING HIM TO COUGH HE WAS ABLE TO GET SOME AIR HE WAS SAYING BUT
HE WAS TRYING TO GET THIS STUFF OUT OF HIS
THROAT
WE STAYED WITH HIM AND WE LED HIM TO AN AMBULANCE ON NORTH END AVENUE TOLD HIM TO TRY AND GET SOME OXYGEN WE KIND OF LEFT HIM WITH AN AMBULANCE ON NORTH END AVENUE
THERE WAS ANOTHER AMBULANCE THERE THERE WAS AN EMT INSIDE THE AMBULANCE AND SHE
WAS REALLY KIND OF FREAKING OUT SHE WAS VERY EMOTIONAL WE STAYED WITH HER CALMED HER DOWN
MADE SURE SHE GOT SOME OXYGEN
THERE WAS BIG CLOUD ON WEST STREET
SO WE DECIDED TO GO NORTH ON NORTH END AVENUE AND GO UP BLOCK AND AROUND WE WERE GOING TO WALK

MCGOVERN
BACK DOWN WEST STREET APPROACH IT FROM THE NORTH SO WE WENT UP NORTH END AVENUE AND MADE
RIGHT ON MURRAY STREET
WAS WITH THE TWO ROTATION GUYS MIKE
CATALANO AND DAN SCHOFIELD THEY WERE PRETTY SHOOK UP DAN WAS STILL KIND OF BREATHING HEAVY AND HYPERVENTILATING LITTLE BIT HE SAID HE NEEDED TO CALL HIS WIFE HE CALLED HIS WIFE WE ENDED UP NEAR STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL THINK THATS ON MURRAY STREET SO HE MADE CALL
SAID OKAY IM GOING TO GO BACK DOWN THEY WERE KIND OF HESITANT SO SAID
LOOK YOU GUYS STAY UP HERE AT STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL IM GOING TO HEAD BACK DOWN
STARTED WALKING SOUTH ON WEST STREET AGAIN PROBABLY GOT JUST BEFORE VESEY STREET
WHEN THE NORTH TOWER COLLAPSED AGAIN JUST TURNED AROUND AND LOOKED TO SEE PLACE WHERE
COULD GET SOME COVER THERE WAS BIG OPEN LOT BETWEEN MURRAY AND VESEY SO THAT WAS ALL WIDE
OPEN
SO RAN NORTH BACK UP TOWARDS
STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL BASICALLY GOT TO THE HIGH SCHOOL JUST AS THE CLOUD HIT WENT INSIDE

MCGOVERN
THE HIGH SCHOOL WAS IN THERE ONIY ABOUT MINUTE KIND OF LET THE CLOUD PASS GAVE IT ABOUT
MINUTE
DIDNT RUN INTO THE TWO FIREMEN
CATALANO AND SCHOFIELD AGAIN ASSUMED THEY WERE SAFE INSIDE THE HIGH SCHOOL STUYVESANT HIGH
SCHOOL BECAUSE THATS WHERE HAD LEFT THEM RIGHT OUTSIDE JUST ASSUMED THEY GOT SOME COVER INSIDE WHICH THEY DID FOUND OUT LATER
SO STAYED IN THE HIGH SCHOOL ABOUT MINUTE LET THE CLOUD PASS THE INITIAL CLOUD
LEFT THE HIGH SCHOOL WENT BACK ONTO WEST
STREET STARTED WALKING SOUTH AGAIN THERE WAS BIG CLOUD OUT THERE EVERYTHING WAS COVERED IN DUST JUST HEADED SOUTH ON WEST STREET AGAIN THROUGH ALL THIS DEBRIS PAST ALL THE RIGS
JUST MADE MY WAY SOUTH AGAIN BACK TOWARDS THE
BACK TOWARDS THE TRADE CENTER
THERE WASNT REALLY LOT OF PEOPLE
AROUND IT WAS KIND OF EERIE IT WAS ALMOST LIKE GHOST TOWN WITH THE CLOUD AND EVERYTHING
GUESS GOT TO VESEY STREET AND RAN INTO SOME OTHER GUYS RAN INTO GUY FROM 43 TRUCK HE SAID THAT HE HAD SEEN MY LIEUTENANT ON VESEY
SITE

MCGOVERN 10
TOWARDS THE WATER TOWARDS NORTH END AVENUE
SO WALKED UP THERE WANTED TO LET
MY OFFICER KNOW WE HAD TRIED EARLIER TO GET THROUGH ON THE RADIO TO NOTIFY MY OFFICER THAT WE
WERE ALL TOGETHER ME AND THE TWO OTHER GUYS AND THAT WE WERE SAFE UP ON NORTH END AVENUE BUT WE
COULDNT GET THROUGH
LIKE SAID ONE OF THE GUYS FROM 43
TRUCK SAID MY OFFICER WAS OUT ON VESEY STREET SOMEBODY HAD TO MOVE THAT RIG WHICH WAS ACTUALLY
PRETTY GOOD MOVE FROM WHERE THE RIG WAS ON WEST STREET SOMEBODY HAD TAKEN IT DOWN VESEY ALL
THE WAY DOWN TO THE WATER THAT WAS YOUR RIG
YEAH OUR RIG
BY THE TIME GOT DOWN THERE LOOKED
FOR MY OFFICER WHO ENDED UP RUNNING INTO TO LET HIM KNOW WE WERE ALL SAFE LET HIM KNOW
THE TWO OTHER GUYS WERE UP BY STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL THEY WERE OKAY SO WE REGROUPED BY WHERE OUR RIG WAS BY THE WATER ON VESEY STREET
THINK IT WAS THE MARINE UNIT
FIREFIGHTER THAT HAD PULLED UP TO PIER THERE AND STRETCHED LINE TO FEED OUR RIG WITH WATER

MCGOVERN
SO WE REGROUPED THERE
THINK AT THAT POINT
11
NORTH END AVENUE WE WENT UP TO STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL TO HOOK UP WITH THE TWO OTHER GUYS
THATS BASICALLY WHERE STAGING AREA WAS STARTING TO FORM UP THERE ON WEST STREET
SO MYSELF THE LIEUTENANT THE TWO OTHER GUYS THAT THE LIEUTENANT WAS WITH HAD
FOUND OUT THAT THEY HAD RAN THROUGH THE GARAGE WHERE THE COMMAND POST WAS SINCE WE WERE
WALKING BEHIND THEM OUR QUICKEST ROUTE WAS TO RUN THROUGH THE WINTER GARDEN SO WE GOT
SEPARATED THAT WAY
LIKE SAID THERE WAS THIS FENCE THERE
BETWEEN THE WINTER GARDEN AND WHERE THE GARAGE WAS THEY WERE SOUTH OF THE FENCE SO THEY RAN THROUGH THE GARAGE WE WERE NORTH OF THE FENCE
SO OUR BEST ROUTE WAS THROUGH THE WINTER GARDEN
THATS HOW WE GOT SEPARATED
AS SAID REGROUPED WITH THE
LIEUTENANT AND THE TWO GUYS THAT RAN THROUGH THE GARAGE ON VESEY NEAR WHERE OUR RIG WAS WE
IS MURKY SOMETIMES THINK
CAME FIRST THINK AT THAT POINT WE WENT UP
LOT OF THIS DONT KNOW WHAT

MCGOVERN 12
WALKED UP TO STUYVESANT HOOKED UP WITH THE OTHER GUYS STAYED AT THE STAGING AREA FOR WHILE
BASICALLY WE JUST WORKED OUR WAY SOUTH AGAIN ON WEST STREET THINK WE WENT BACK TO
THE RIG ONCE AND THEN WE WALKED OVER TO THE SITE AND STARTED SEARCH AT THAT POINT
WE WERE SEARCHING AROUND THE DEBRIS FIELD THAT ENDED UP ON WEST STREET OPPOSITE THE
NORTH TOWER WE WERE SEARCHING AROUND IN THERE AT THAT TIME SEVEN WORLD TRADE CENTER WAS BURNING
AND WAS IN DANGER OF COLLAPSING AFTER WHILE THE LIEUTENANT SAID LETS MOVE LETS GET OUT OF HERE LETS TAKE BREAK
ACTUALLY THINK AT THAT POINT JUST AS WE WERE LEAVING GUYS DONT KNOW WHO IT WAS
GUESS IT WAS CHIEF WAS SAYING CLEAR THE AREA BECAUSE THEY WERE WORRIED ABOUT NUMBER SEVEN WORLD TRADE CENTER COMING DOWN AND BURYING GUYS WHO WERE DIGGING
SO WE BASICALLY WENT BACK TO THE RIG BECAUSE THEY WERE CLEARING THAT AREA OUT IT
TOOK ABOUT THREE HOURS FOR SEVEN WORLD TRADE CENTER TO ACTUALLY COME DOWN SO WE WERE OFF TO THE SIDE

MCGOVERN 13
THERE WAS WHOLE HUNCH OF FIREMEN ON VESEY STREET AND THATS WHERE WE WERE ON VESEY
JUST WAITING TO GO BACK IN AND START SEARCHING AGAIN BUT THAT DIDNT COME FOR FEW HOURS IT
DIDNT COME UNTIL AFTER SEVEN WORLD TRADE CENTER HAD COME DOWN
THEN WE WENT BACK DID LITTLE MORE
SEARCHING AND THEN WE ENDED UP TAKING UP THINK WE TOOK UP AROUND 930 AT NIGHT AND
CAUGHT
RIDE BACK TO THE FIREHOUSE
DID YOU HEAR ANY MAYDAYS BEFORE THE
COLLAPSE OR RIGHT AFTER THE COLLAPSE EITHER COLLAPSE
NOT REALLY DIDNT HAVE RADIO
LIKE SAID EVERYTHING WAS KIND OF FOGGY IT WAS KIND OF WEIRD SCENE SO THERE MAY HAVE
BEEN MAYDAYS PROBABLY NOT HAVING RADIO DIDNT TAKE NOTICE OF THEM DIDNT HEAR ANY
RADIO TRAFFIC AT ALL
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE
NO THATS IT
CHIEF KENAHAN THE TIME NOW IS 1042 AND THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW
BASICALLY
File No. 9110302
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER RICHARD BOERI
   Interview Date:  December 10, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
R. BOERI 2
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time is 2:05 p.m.,
     and this is Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan
     of the Safety Battalion of the Fire
     Department of the City of New York.  I'm
     conducting an interview with Richard Boeri
     of Engine 44.
     Q.   Richard, just explain in your own words
what happened on September 11th.
     A.   I was minimum manning that day,
overtime.  At 9:08 the call came in.  I was
control man.  We ended up going out of quarters,
going down Second Avenue down to about 59th
Street, across the West Side Highway and down.
          I believe we parked the rig
approximately, I think it was Murray Street or
Barclay and West, and we proceeded to go down to
the command post, which was I believe across from
One World Trade Center or the north tower.
          I think we were there for about five
minutes.  They said, "Put your gear down.  You're
going to walk up about 80 flights of stairs,"
because the elevators were out.  So we put our
masks down, rollups and everything.
          I think we saw like 18 people jump.
R. BOERI 3
Then one of the officers there said, "Turn
around, concentrate on who you can save.  You
can't save those people anymore."  I don't recall
who that was.
          There was a chaplain behind us.  It
wasn't Father Judge, but one of the guys knew
him.  He said a little prayer for us.
          So I went through the guys from there.
I saw the chief's aide, and I talked to him for a
little bit.  It had to be about 20 minutes later
when they sent us down to approximately Cedar
Street and West Street.  They were there, two or
three rigs blocking the West Side Highway coming
from the south.  So we were sent with 53 Engine
to move those rigs out of the way.
          Myself, my whole company, Matt Shannon,
Bobby Reeg, the covering officer, and Eddie
Kennedy proceeded to walk down.  Looking over, I
saw 65 Engine hooked up to the hotel, I believe,
or the south tower.  I don't remember which one
because there's a high pressure pump.
          The officer saw there were several
small fires at the foot of the pedestrian bridge
right there at Liberty and West.  So our initial
R. BOERI 4
thing was myself and Eddie Kennedy would move the
rig away from West Street to let the companies
come up from the south.  Also they told us to
bring ambulances up Washington Street, which is
on the south side of the south tower there.
          Bobby Reeg, the nozzle man, he was
checking rigs up the West Side Highway for an
extinguisher for the car fire along with Matt
Shannon.  So they were looking I guess -- right
in front of the Vista Hotel.
          We had our backs to the tower and under
that pedestrian bridge walking south, myself,
Eddie Kennedy and the officer, when you heard the
crackling.  You looked up and you saw the one
floor explode on itself and the top start to
slide.
          At that point Eddie just told me to
run, and we just dropped everything and ran south
towards Albany Street.  Now, we ran I guess on
the east side of West Side Highway -- we ran
across to -- the east side, we ran to the west
side of that highway, down towards Albany.
          At the southwest corner there were a
few parked cars.  I saw Eddie Kennedy lose his
R. BOERI 5
helmet and dive under a car.  I saw a building --
I believe it's at the corner of West and
Albany -- and I was going to try to go for the
building.
          Once all the debris and everything
caught up, I was pushed over a four foot fence.
The next thing, I woke up, I was spitting
everything out of my mouth, and it was just
black, silent.
          When I came to, I heard a civilian
yelling on my left.  So I found my helmet next to
me, picked myself up.  I found the civilian, who
was over by the building.  Make it Park Place, I
guess?  I can't tell what building that is.
Anyway, it's right on Albany and West Street.
          So I walked the civilian back.  I
walked back to where my company was.  Where I
last knew, Albany and West, where I found the
officer and Eddie Kennedy.  I passed the civilian
off to someone else who was there.
          I was with Eddie Kennedy and the
officer when Dr. Kelly showed up, her and another
guy I believe from 4 Truck, I want to say.  I'm
not sure.  I had cut my head.  My whole face was
R. BOERI 6
full of blood.  I was talking to them.  I was
okay.
          We were trying to radio Matt Shannon,
who was our backup man.  He had the radio.  He
said he knew where Bobby Reeg was, because Matt
was just going for the river up by the marina
there.
          Dr. Kelly said, "Come with me.  We'll
wash you up.  You're hurt."  So I told the
officer I'm going with him, which we proceeded to
go to Albany Street, I guess, half a block to a
parking garage, which is in the Hudson View West,
in the Hudson Tower here.
          In there they had a guy on the back
board, Kevin Shea, who I guess he was hurt before
the collapse because there was something -- they
had him on a back board and everything.
          I was there when they went to try to
find a gurney or stretcher to get him to an
ambulance, because they told us the whole
southern section you couldn't get to an ambulance
or anything.
          I was there for a while with him, when
you heard the rumbling again.  That's when the
R. BOERI 7
north tower came down.  We stayed in the garage.
There was another chief there.  He covered Kevin
Shea when all the dust came into the whole
garage, all the debris and everything, all the
dust didn't get into his spot because he was all
strapped down.  He had a dislocated hip or
something.  He kept repeating the same questions
about 15 times over and over.
          We knew we had to get him out.  We got
to 4 Truck on I guess it was West End Avenue over
here one block west of West Side Highway.  They
got an ambulance, which we threw him in the
ambulance and we drove straight toward West
Street.
          (Interruption.)
     A.   So we got the ambulance, and we drove
straight west on Albany Street all the way to the
river.  We broke through the chain fence on the
esplanade there where the police boat pulled up.
At that point is where we proceeded to hand Kevin
over on the back board over the side railing and
into a police boat.
          A few minutes later I ended up going on
a police boat also across to Jersey to Hoboken,
R. BOERI 8
where I was there until about 11:00 at night
because they wouldn't let us back.  While we were
there, we made phone calls back and found out
where everybody was from our point of view.
          In general that's it.
     Q.   Thank you very much, Rich.
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time now is 2:12,
     and this concludes the interview.
File No. 911303
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
           EMT-D RALPH RAMOS
   Interview Date:  December 12, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
R. RAMOS
2
          MS. BASTEDENBECK:  December 12, 2001.  The
     time now is 1556 hours.  My name is Christine
     Bastedenbeck of the New York City Fire
     Department.  I'm at EMS Battalion 4 conducting an
     interview with the following individual.
     Q.   Please state your name, rank and your current
unit.
     A.   My name is Ralph Ramos, EMT-D, assigned to 01
Charlie Tour 2, Battalion 4.
     Q.   MR. RAMOS, I would ask you if you can recount
the events of September 11, 2001.  Were you working
that day?
     A.   Yes, I was working.  I started at 0600 that
morning.  I was on my way back to my 89, which is on
Duane and Church Street.  We were returning back there
from Battalion 4 and we were going up, I believe it's
Pearl Street, and my partner Alex Loutsky and I, we
witnessed the first plane hit the first tower.  Saw it
flying low and we thought, that plane's flying kind of
low, and then it hit the building and we went over the
radio and we told central that we had witnessed a plane
hitting the building, and at first she didn't believe
us, but then other units started saying they saw the
same thing and then we proceeded straight over to the
R. RAMOS
3
Trade Center.
          We went down West Street and parked at West
and Liberty.  There was -- Lieutenant D'Avila was
there.  There were several other units already on the
scene and there was a wave of people running out of the
building, running towards us.  Stopped like about maybe
4 people, put them into our vehicle and I was treating
them and in the process of doing that, the second plane
hit right over top of us and all the debris started
falling down on top of us.
          So we got in our vehicle.  At that time
everybody left the vehicle and ran down West Street.
Everybody started running in different directions.  We
got into our vehicle and we followed Lieutenant D'Avila
around to the east side of the building, which was
Church Street and Dey Street and we parked on that
corner there.  He parked in front of us.
          On that side people were running out also, so
we set up a triage and treatment in front of the hotel
Millennium, which is right cross the street from them
and we started treating patients as they were coming
out.  We stayed there for a while.  Lieutenant D'Avila
lost his voice, so he had asked me to stay next to him
to sort of be his voice as far as giving the orders.
R. RAMOS
4
          We were treating people and triaging and
trying to send people out from that location.  The
vehicle, my vehicle, 219, stayed on the corner of
Church and Dey, so see if they needed that for
transport.  It stayed there.  In the process of
treating and organizing the people getting out of
there, all of a sudden we heard the rumble of the first
tower, and it was just, you know, really just chaotic
on the corner that we were at.  We treated as many
people as we could and got a lot of the people out of
there via private ambulances and Fire Department
ambulances that were on the scene.
          When the first tower started coming down, I
got separated from Lieutenant D'Avila and my partner
Alex.  I started running towards -- we were on the
corner close to Dey Street and Fulton Street, so I
started running towards Fulton Street to try to get out
of harms way, but by that time it was too late, because
the building had came down.  The dust cloud covered me
and I couldn't see and I couldn't breathe.
     Q.   Do you know where you were then?
     A.   At that moment, at first the panic, I got
disoriented from the panic, but I have worked this area
for about a year and my unit has always been in that
R. RAMOS
5
area.  I sort of closed my eyes and then made a map in
my head of what I last saw and then using that as a
guide in my head and feeling with my hands, I was able
to find the building and just like patted alongside of
the building until I got down Fulton Street.
          I made it as far as Broadway and I went into
the bank that's on the corner, the left hand side of
Fulton and Broadway.  I think it's a Chase bank.  I
made it into the lobby of that building.  Helped some
people who were in there who had stuff in their eyes
and stuff like that.  Pouring water on it, get the dirt
out of their eyes, like that.  Tried to calm some
people down.  People who were in that building were
trying to leave that building.  You couldn't see
outside.
          So I was trying to keep them -- blocking the
doors, trying to keep them inside.  It was me and
another fireman, it was just us two that made it into
that building.  We kept everybody inside, then I ran
into one of the EMS doctors, Fire Department doctors.
I forgot his name.  We ran into him and he said you
know, just try to take care of as many people as you
can in here, just flushing their eyes and stuff like
that.
R. RAMOS
6
          Did that and then it cleared up enough
outside, I realized that I left -- my partner was
missing and Lieutenant D'Avila was missing.  I was
getting ready to head out and I ran into Lieutenant
D'Avila.  He had made it to the bank as well.  We went
back down Fulton Street back to the front of the
building to look for my partner.
          So Lieutenant Melarango, who was there also,
and Amy, Lieutenant Monroe.  We went down to try to
find them and see how many people we could help.  We
went back down and it was like a ghost town down
there.  We didn't see anybody, people laying around and
stuff, but as far as walking around, there really
wasn't anybody.
          My vehicle exploded.  I was heading over to
my vehicle to get -- to use the radio, because I had
lost my HIP radio.  I went inside my vehicle to get on
my vehicle radio, but by the time I went over there,
the vehicle exploded.  Then we just continued to look
around see, you know, how many people we could find.
It is a little bit of a blur.  I don't recall how many
people we might have run into.
          At that time, then, in the process of doing
that, we heard another loud rumble and it was the
R. RAMOS
7
second tower coming down.  We both started -- you know,
we hugged, locked arms.  Both started running, but we
didn't make it too far.  Again, we got covered with the
cloud and everything got black again.  We couldn't
breathe and we were panicking.  Again, I closed my eyes
and mapped my way out of there and made it to a Subway
sandwich shop that's on Fulton Street and banged on the
glass.  They didn't want to let us in.  We saw people
in the back.  I was waiting for someone to open the
door, we were banging on the glass.  We couldn't
breathe any more.  Everything was fading fast.  Finally
one of the people came and opened the door and we went
in.
          There was only about 12 people in the store.
They were all panicking and stuff like that.  When they
saw us, they kind of calmed down.  We wet towels and
wrapped them around their heads and we got them out of
the store down Fulton Street towards New York downtown
hospital to get them out of there.
          Then after that, I ran into a couple of
Beekman, the New York downtown medics.  Two Beekman
medics.  I can't recall.  I can't recall.  I stuck with
Lieutenant D'Avila.
          We got supplies and took it over to 49 Fulton
R. RAMOS
8
Street, where they had set up a little triage area
also.  We took supplies from the hospital and brought
them over there.  From there we went to West and
Chambers to the high school.  They had set up --
     Q.   Stuyvesant High School?
     A.   Yes.  We went over there.  Ran into a lot of
my friends.  (inaudible), who was from this Battalion,
but transferred out.  I think I saw Thomas Monahan,
Tommy Monahan, who was from this Battalion.  I saw -- I
don't know his first name.  I know his last name is
Hayden and his Father is a Chief of the fire
suppression side.  I saw him.  I saw Allan Cruz from
this Battalion.  He does the LSU from this Battalion.
     Q.   Did you ever reunite with your partner?
     A.   No, actually.  We had gotten separated, so
the whole time he was thinking I was dead and I was
thinking he was dead.  Looking for him though,
(inaudible), and the mass of all the people who were
there, and all those people who responded.  All those
who were told to stay in the high school until they
needed them.  Looking through faces, trying to see him
and I didn't see him for a long time.  It wasn't until
the next day that I saw him.
     Q.   Did you ever get word that day that he was
R. RAMOS
9
okay?
     A.   No, not that day.
     Q.   (inaudible)?
     A.   I looked through the whole entire high school
to see if he made it or not.  I stayed over there at
the high school for a while, until, I think about 9
o'clock at night and then I couldn't go any more,
because it was just too overwhelming for me and I
passed out and I woke up in New York downtown
hospital.  Got treated for exhaustion and smoke
inhalation and stuff.
     Q.   Do you know how you got there?
     A.   I remember telling Lieutenant D'Avila that I
wasn't feeling right and then they started walking me
over towards the MERV and I just sort of woke up in the
emergency room.
Q. Beekman?
     A.   Beekman, yes.  They treated me there and then
they released me.  I went home, I walked back to the
Battalion first to take my stuff and leave it in the
locker, my uniform, and put my street clothes back on.
I walked from New York downtown back here to the
Battalion.
          Then I saw my friend, (inaudible), was here.
R. RAMOS
10
I saw Orlando Martinez, Frank Puma.  Who else?  I think
I saw Rick Abono, Rick Abono was here also, I believe.
     Q.   Are these people that work at your Battalion?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   They were all working that day?
     A.   Yes.  They were all people from this
Battalion.  Some of them responded in from home.  They
came in. I saw Gregory Zeek, who came in.  He was on
AL.  He had like -- was on vacation.  He came back in.
He was here.  He was my third partner from my unit.  It
was me, Al Loutsky and Gregory Zeek, all on one Charlie
and Zeek was on vacation.  Me and Al were working
together that day.
          I saw Zeek, who was off.  He was here.  I
really can't recall, you know.  They were glad to see
me and I was glad to see them.  But as far as specific
faces and names, I really, I guess I'm trying to push
it back into my head so much, instead, it's starting to
become very vague for me.
          I left work and I went home.  From there went
home.  I came back to work the next day at 11 in the
morning.
     Q.   Is there anything else you would like to add
to the day, anything that strikes you or --
R. RAMOS
11
     A.   No.  Just the terror of -- from almost having
died twice.  It was like, you know, I was never one to
be afraid of dying and then it happened, almost
happened once and I made it out of there and I was like
glad I made it out.  It was enough to put an impression
on me and then to go through it again so quickly
afterwards.  So like the first time it put an
impression on me and the second time is seared it into
my head, you know.
          So that is about it that I can think of.  I'm
glad that I'm here, that I was able to make it out.
          MS. BASTEDENBECK:  This concludes my
     interview with EMT Ramos.  The time now is 1610
     hours.  Thank you very much.
File No. 9110304
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
           EMT NICOLE FERRELL
   Interview Date:  December 13, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
N. FERRELL
2
          LIEUTENANT McCOURT:  The date is December
13th, 2001.  The time is 0720 hours.  My name is Tom
McCourt, New York City Fire Department.  We're
conducting an interview at Battalion 45, EMS Command,
in regards to the World Trade Center attack.  Being
interviewed is --
          EMT FERRELL:  Nicole Ferrell.
          LIEUTENANT McCOURT:  -- EMT Nicole Ferrell.
     Q.   Could you please give me the details of your
experiences on September 11th, 2001, at the World Trade
Center?
     A.   When the first plane had hit, we were still
parked in our area and I was sitting on Queens
Boulevard and Greenpoint.
     Q.   What unit were you assigned to?
     A.   49 Boy.
     Q.   49 Boy.  Okay.
     A.   When we heard that the plane went into the
first building, we went and drove closer to the water,
which was near the 108th Precinct on 50th Avenue and
5th Street, to get a better look.  So we drove down and
we saw that it was a fire and we heard units being
dispatched to it, which we were not assigned at the
time.
N. FERRELL
Q.   Who were you working with?
3
     A.   Jeff Warner.  We ended up going to another
job instead and made that a 98.  Then after we left
that job, we went back to our unit to watch what was
going on.  We saw that it was still burning and we just
waited to see if we were going get assigned to it.
After a while my partner picked up the radio and kind
of got us assigned to the job by asking the dispatcher
did he need more people over there and they sent us.
          On our way there, the first tower, which was
the south tower, was the one that collapsed while we
were en route.  Then, when we got to -- what I believe
is we drove down Broadway and we made a left.  When I
got to Liberty, right over here, is when the next tower
collapsed, right after.  After that we ran with all the
people and we took the ambulance and we drove across
Liberty again, went up I believe it was Church.
     Q.   When you got down there originally on
Liberty, did you see anybody?  The building hadn't
collapsed at that point, right?
     A.   When I just pulled up to Liberty, we had just
pulled up, just got out, and there was still debris
flying around and no sooner than we got out is when the
other tower came down.
Q. Okay.
N. FERRELL
4
     A.   No sooner.  So we were out of there because
we had parked over here.  So then we came down Liberty
and we went up, I believe, Church and went to this side
instead, which was, I think, Vesey and Church, and we
were standing in front of building 5, across from the
post office.  Then, from there I told him let's go up
West Street.  So we went up to West and I believe
Murray and left the ambulance and walked back down over
here.  After a while, just things started happening
because we couldn't find anybody.
     Q.   You didn't come in contact with anybody, any
supervisors or anybody from your command or anybody?
     A.   No.  Not at all.  Because by the time we got
over here, everybody was like running in every
direction.  You couldn't barely see at all.  It was
like snow, the stuff was so heavy, and people were just
running and screaming and stuff like that.  Some cars
were on fire and I remember some people were choking
and stuff and running towards there but they didn't
want to be treated and they kept going.
     Q.   Did you treat any patients at all?
     A.   Actually, we attempted to treat a firefighter
and he didn't want to be treated.  But what we did was
N. FERRELL
5
he said he wanted to be driven back to another area
where I guess they were doing like staging or something
like that.  So I told him that we would drive him
around to where the MERV is and maybe he can reconnect
with some of the other Fire Department resources that
were over here somewhere.
     Q.   So you moved from Church and Vesey?
     A.   Yes.  We moved from Church and Vesey and we
went up to -- let's see.  If I'm not mistaken, I was
going up West Street, because we actually just went,
you know, we did an actual triangle just about and went
up West Street and then cut across to meet everybody
else somewhere over here, I believe.  I think it was on
West Street, that's where everybody was, and I was at
the first MERV right over there.
     Q.   So it was West and Murray?
     A.   Yes.  That's where we were.
          Prior to us going to West and Murray with the
fireman, we were right over -- I believe it was either
5 or 7.  See, my memory is a little bad because I don't
know.  I'm having a little hard time with this.  But we
went (inaudible) -- no.  You know what?  It was 7.  Now
I remember.  It was 7 because we went over here to West
Street, like I said, and I stopped here at Barclay and
N. FERRELL
6
I saw the firefighter.  There were people screaming out
of one of these two buildings over here saying they
couldn't get out, and my partner took one straggler
fireman, the one that we had with us, and was trying to
break the door because the door obviously had shifted
or something.  They couldn't get the door open.
     Q.   That was 7 World Trade Center?
     A.   I believe it was 7.  Maybe it was 5.  It was
at the back end of it because I do remember the
telephone company.  So I think it was the back end of
7, I think right over here at that point, and they
couldn't get out.  Then I had ran down the block and I
flagged a ladder company and they brought the ladder,
which they had like a vestibule that you couldn't like
really reach the people because the ladder wouldn't
reach.  So they went and got other resources, they went
inside the building, and I told my partner that it
wasn't safe and that we need to go because everything
around us was like falling apart.  So we got back in
the ambulance.  Like I said, I had the firefighter with
me who was still injured at the time.
     Q.   Do you know who that was?  Do you remember?
     A.   I have no idea.
     Q.   Do you remember any company or was he --
N. FERRELL
7
     A.   No.  My partner probably would remember more
than I could because everything was a mess.  People
were grabbing other people's coats and helmets.  So I
honestly don't know where he was from.  All I know is
that he was having a problem with his eyes and stuff
like that, like us.  He was complaining he couldn't see
and stuff like that.  But he couldn't find the rest of
his company.
          So that was it.  Then we went to over here to
the MERV, in that area over there, and we had our bus
parked near the school.  Yes, right over here.  We
parked the bus down here and we walked to where
everybody else was.
     Q.   That was on Murray and West?
     A.   Yes, I believe it was Murray and West.
Wherever the college is?  We were across the street
from there and the pedestrian walkway was in front of
us.  I remember looking directly at it.  I had went
into an area where they had a whole bunch of EMTs and
paramedics that were supposed to be congregating inside
the auditorium in which they piled us all in.  They
closed one door and left the other one open.  It was
conducted by Lieutenant Kathy Fuchs.  She told us all
to gather all our equipment, gather together and we're
N. FERRELL
8
going to go out in groups of four or five, which would
be like two paramedics and two EMTs or whatever.
          About a few minutes after that, we all piled
in there and stuff, the lights went out, we lost
power.  She closed the door and locked us all in there
and she ran.  So we started trampling each other.  So
everybody started running all over each other.  People
were getting hurt and stuff.  Finally a police officer
came and opened the door for us because he heard us all
screaming in there for about 15 minutes.  We were in
complete darkness.
          We came out and she told us to sit along --
let's see.  I believe it's like a water area over
here.  It's like River Terrace.  She told us to move
down, I believe, over here and pile over here instead.
When I saw that her plan wasn't working, I abandoned
ship and I went to go stay with my Captain and Chief
Nigro across from the MERV.  I was there for a good
part of the evening, but I was -- let's see.  The
walkway came down.  1 and 2 had already fell.  I
believe it was either 7 -- but 7 was empty at the time,
when it came down, that I remember.  We had just missed
the collapse of 7 because me and my partner moved
away.  Then we were in the MERV, and after the MERV, we
N. FERRELL
9
stayed there for a few hours or so and we rode around
with a Cushman vehicle and we rode around the area
where the site was, they let us ride around, all
through here, all around here, where all the collapses
were, and that's basically it.
          Then we went and made a makeshift hospital at
an apartment building which was -- this part is going
to be difficult because I'm not really sure exactly
where this building was.
     Q.   Okay.  That's all right.
     A.   But there was an apartment building.  It
looked like a hotel but it wasn't a hotel and they made
it -- maybe it was the Millenium.  It could have been
the Millenium.  I'm not really sure because there was
just too much going on.  But they made a makeshift
hospital over there.  They made us all set out like IVs
and stuff like that and water and stuff, and we all
stayed there for a good part of the night freezing to
death and we started getting sick.  So Lieutenant
Hadala told us that we were all going to move from that
location because it was freezing and it was dirty and
we were filthy and we all were starting to get sick and
we couldn't breathe.
          So we jumped into the MERV and moved closer
N. FERRELL
10
up to Vesey Street, and I came back to look for my
ambulance, which was supposed to be parked over here at
West and somewhere, Murray or something, and they took
my ambulance away.  They took all my equipment away,
they took all my personal stuff away, and my stuff was
stolen.  So I went to go with the gang to ask one of
the supervisors where all my stuff was, and they said
that they took our ambulance away because they thought
that we had passed away.  So they took our truck to
Bureau of Training, and we stayed here for the rest of
the night stranded until we found somebody to take us
back.  We were there for a total of, I believe, 28
hours, 30 hours, and we came back to the station.
Q. Okay.
     A.   I didn't see any EMTs or paramedics or
anything prior to them passing that were listed or
(inaudible).  As far as firefighters, I have no idea.
I don't know who I saw or what.  It was total chaos.
So that was it.
          LIEUTENANT McCOURT:  Okay.  The time now is
7:30.  That concludes the interview.  Thank you very
much.
File No. 9110305
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
          EMT PATRICK RICHIUSA
   Interview Date:  December 13, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
P. RICHIUSA
          LIEUTENANT McCOURT:  The date is December 13,
2001.  The time is 0742 hours.  My name is Tom McCourt
from the New York City Fire Department.  We are
currently at EMS Command, Battalion 45.  I'm currently
interviewing --
          EMT RICHIUSA:  Patrick Richiusa.
          LIEUTENANT McCOURT:  -- that's EMT Patrick
Richiusa from Battalion 45.
     Q.   EMT Richiusa, can you please tell me the
events that transpired on September 11th, 2001, from
your perspective, please?
     A.   Okay.  We left the station to go to our 89,
and about 8:45 in the morning we noticed smoke coming
from one of the towers, my partner and I, Laura
Siebuhr.  So we moved our position to a better location
to see if maybe it was just a smokestack of a building
in front that was just from the angle.  It turns out
that it was the tower that was on fire.  So I asked the
dispatcher over the air and --
     Q.   Where were you sitting at this point?
     A.   Metropolitan and Forest Avenue.  We moved to
a better position and from there you could see the
actual tower was on fire.  So I asked the dispatcher
over the air, and there was silence for about a minute,
2
P. RICHIUSA
and then the tones went off and they said a plane had
crashed into the World Trade Center.  So they started
sending units from all over the place and I was
assigned.  I went over the 59th Street bridge.  I
forget exactly what route I took.  I picked up two
priests on the way once I had crossed the bridge into
Manhattan because they asked if we were going and I
figured they were going to be needed if a plane crashed
into the Trade Center.
          So I came across Vesey to West.  That's where
staging was.  I arrived there.  I let the two priests
out.  I never saw them again.  I found the first
Lieutenant from EMS that I saw and he told me to go
over to triage, which was right by 3 Financial.
     Q.   Do you remember what Lieutenant that was?  Do
you have any idea?
     A.   I have no idea.  There was a group.  It was a
couple Lieutenants and I believe one Captain.  I don't
recall any one of their faces.
Q. Okay.
     A.   From there I went over to triage.  There was
about 15 people all laying around on the floor there,
nurses, doctors, private ambulances, Fire Department
ambulances, volunteer ambulances from Hatzolah.  I
3
P. RICHIUSA
believe Forest Hills was also there.
     Q.   What was the status of the towers then?
     A.   They were still standing.  This was about
five minutes before the second plane hit and nobody had
known it was a terrorist attack.  So it was just -- we
positioned the furthest point from Trade Center 2,
which was the one first to get hit.  So we went over
and then the private ambulances started to try to take
patients away, but I had no names and nothing else.  So
I went over to a Lieutenant and a Captain and I asked
them and he put me in charge.  So I went back and -- he
told me nobody leaves until you say so, and I said
okay, until you get names and all the other
information.
          So I went back, stopped the ambulances.
There was a city bus.  Everybody was walking wounded.
So I figured we could just take all 15 people in one
shot in the city bus, and I was going back to ask the
Lieutenant when the second plane hit.  It was a loud
thunder noise and you looked up and all the buildings
on the opposite side of the tower's windows were
shaking.  So somebody started yelling run, so my
partner and I both ran with all the people.  The
patients all got up and ran.  We all ran towards the
4
P. RICHIUSA
Hudson, down West towards -- I mean Vesey.  Sorry.  I
got that all backwards.  Towards Vesey, towards the
Hudson.  When we arrived at, I guess, North End Avenue,
that's when all that debris fell and it all --
basically, there was nowhere else to run, so you got
enveloped by the cloud of smoke and debris.  After that
settled, there was a little chaos.  Nobody was quite
sure what happened.
     Q.   That was the debris from the --
     A.   The plane actually crashing.
     Q.   The plane?
     A.   Yes.  This was the actual when it blew out
the 80 something floors.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   That was the plane, the umbrella, you know,
it looked like to me.
     Q.   So the debris went that far, up to the river?
     A.   It covered right up to the Hudson.  I
actually considered swimming the Hudson River because
there was nowhere else left to run.
          Then the debris settled and there was a
little chaos and nobody was really quite sure what
happened because all the vehicles were parked down the
block and a lot of equipment was down the block.  Some
5
P. RICHIUSA
of the vehicles had been positioned on North End, I
guess, from other areas, or maybe they were told
afterwards, after the second plane hit, where to go.
There was a large crowd of people.  I don't know where
they all came from.  I guess it was just from all over
that general area.  People were sharing cell phones to
see if they could call.  There were no signals, nothing
else like that.  Afterwards I saw Chief Kowalczyk and
Chief Gombo.
          Oh, prior to that I saw Bobby Abril, Carlos
Lillo's partner, and my partner was a little nervous of
the situation, she's new on the job, and I asked Bobby
to stay with my partner, and he said, well, Carlos is
down the block.  I said, all right, I'll go get Carlos,
you stay here, and I told Chief Kowalczyk and Chief
Gombo that I was going to go down there and get Carlos
and bring everybody else back up.  He said, all right,
tell them to bring all the equipment with them.
          So on the way down the block, by 3 Financial,
there was still some guys standing there.  So I told
them bring all the equipment back up the block because
we're going to put staging up there now at -- I don't
even know what building that was there.
     Q.   At Vesey and North End?
6
P. RICHIUSA
     A.   At Vesey and North End, yes.  I think that
was a hotel or something, in the lobby of there.  So
you had people coming up the block as I was going down
the block, firemen, but you couldn't really recognize
anybody because everybody was covered with the white
powder, you know, you couldn't really see faces or
anything else like that.  There was nothing
distinguishable about anybody.  That's when I basically
made the turn around West and I was coming across and
it was by the pedestrian bridge when -- actually, no.
The first tower fell and the second tower fell and we
had no idea that the second tower fell.  We were over
here for a little while, then everybody got a little
bit of their bearings back.
     Q.   So that debris was actually from the tower
falling?
     A.   No, no.  The first one was the plane
crashing.  My time frames are all messed up because
things went and there was no time perception.  I didn't
realize how long I was there until I looked at my watch
when it was time to go home.  So I'm not sure exactly
when 2 Trade Center fell because basically we were
protected by the corner, the edge, because we were up
over on North End and Vesey.  So we wouldn't even have
7
P. RICHIUSA
known the second Trade Center had fallen because the
debris would have been blocked by Trade Center 1 and 6
Trade Center.  So I never even knew the Trade Center
had fallen.
          When I came around the block, and this was --
I don't remember what time it was.  It was just minutes
before 1 World Trade Center fell.  I made the turn and
two guys were walking towards me and I looked up and
that's when I saw 1 Trade Center coming down.  There
was no way to outrun World Trade Center 1 from
falling.  So me and the two guys laid on the ground.  I
laid on top of them.
     Q.   Who were they?
     A.   I have no idea.
     Q.   Were they civilians?
     A.   Yes, civilians.  One guy was a black guy in
kind of a jump suit and one guy was a business guy
dressed in something else.  We got buried under all the
debris from 1 World Trade Center and what was left of 6
Trade Center when they both came down because they
toppled into each other.  I don't know how long we were
under there.  Everything went black and I felt stuff
hitting me all over the place and they were screaming,
I was screaming, everybody was yelling.  Basically, it
8
P. RICHIUSA
was so loud that you couldn't hear anything else except
what was right in front of your face, and everything
went so black that it went from as if you shut all the
lights off and closed your eyes, it was that dark.  It
was hard to breathe.  That stuff, all that powder was
getting in our faces, your eyes burning and everything
else.
          I would say maybe a half an hour we were
under that rubble before we dug ourselves out, before
we thought it was okay.  But when we opened our eyes, I
thought, jeez, now we're in a cave.  How the hell am I
going to get out of here?  But it was mostly debris and
the powder.  When we stood up after digging for about a
half an hour, we basically just popped out of the
powder, and five feet from where we were, an R&P, a cop
car, was destroyed by an I-beam.  So we got lucky with
that.
          I walked them -- we still couldn't really
see.  I had a flashlight and we just started walking to
the side, and we walked into 3 Financial building and
we traced that to the corner by touch because you still
couldn't see anything, made the turn onto Vesey, and
then all the way in the distance you could see a dim,
blinking red light.  I asked them if they could see the
9
P. RICHIUSA
dim, blinking red light, and they said yes.  So I said
head that way because from behind us I heard a whole
bunch of people screaming.
          So I went back and I met one lone fireman.  I
have no idea what his name was.  I don't even know -- I
couldn't even tell you what he looked like.  But he
came over to me, he gave me a Scott pack and a turnout
coat to wear right then and there because we didn't
know what else was going on, what else was going to
hit.  So I think that was out of -- I don't even know
what truck that was.  But I wound up giving that back
later to one of the Battalion Chiefs.
          Then we went and started looking, and he was
looking for some guy, I think his name was Paul or
Frank he said help me find.  So we started looking and
the ground was caved in right by 6 World Trade Center
and in the distance you could see ladder trucks turned
into the building and it was -- then it was dead
silent.  There was no noise after 1 Trade Center fell.
It was like something out of a movie.  It was really
loud and then it was -- maybe it was just my hearing
from the blast.  I wasn't hearing the minor things.  In
the parking lot across the street, cars were
exploding.
10
P. RICHIUSA
          Then me and him went and looked and there
were holes and stuff, and I said, well, where was he
last?  He goes I'm not exactly sure.  There was nothing
to landmark with at all at this point.  So we just
started looking through the rubble.  We formed kind of
like a Y or a V type of formation, always staying
within visual of each other, to make sure neither one
of us disappeared.  I found a fireman -- I don't know.
It was by a car, one of the Suburbans.  I asked him are
you okay?  He said yeah, I'm fine, just like that.  So
he goes but two of my guys were on the other side of
the truck.  So I said okay.  So I went around the other
side of the truck and the other side of the truck was
smashed by I-beams, and I looked under with a
flashlight and I couldn't see anything.
          Then one guy we heard from all the way up.  I
figure it was in, I would say, what is that, the
Customs Building?  6 Trade Center.  All right.  We
heard somebody yelling.  So me and the other guy, I was
up first because then I called him over because I
didn't know how many people were up there and I was
going into a building.  So he came up behind me and we
found one fireman up there, and I said are you okay?
He said my back.  I said, listen, you're a big guy.  Me
11
P. RICHIUSA
and him aren't going to be able to carry you out of
this, and he says, no, no, I can walk, I can walk.
          So we started walking out of what I thought
at that time was the third floor of 6 Financial.  It
turns out six floors were standing of it because of the
way debris angled up.  So he was holding on to us.  As
we were coming down, we fell, I don't know, 10 to 15
feet, and that's when I hurt my knee.  I didn't really
notice it then because it was just all utter chaos.
There was like no time.  I hadn't noticed that I had
cut my arm and back either.
          Then we carried him down -- well, we climbed
out and then we all went down and that's when other
firemen started coming.  So I said all right.  So now
everything else is here.  So I started heading back up
the block.  I saw a couple guys with EMS over by 3
Financial still.  I said, listen, there's nothing over
there for you guys.  I said start heading back the
other way and get all the equipment.  I didn't know
that everybody had left already.
          So I went into a building that was on Vesey
between North End and West, and my portable wasn't
working.  I had asked -- I said I'm also going to need,
you know, I need to know where everybody is, and they
12
P. RICHIUSA
were like, well, where are you?  I said I don't really
know because I couldn't landmark anything.  I shut the
portable off because I wanted to reserve the battery
because I didn't know how long this was going to be,
and there was people screaming and yelling all over the
radio from where they were and nobody knew where
anything was.  So it was kind of chaotic.
          So I went into a store.  I tried dialing zero
on the phone.  The operator, there was no answer.  I
guess the phone lines were down.  I tried dialing 911.
There was no answer on that either.  So then I just
started walking up North End and a Hatzolah ambulance I
saw.  I waved at them.  They just waved at me and drove
away.  I don't know how far I walked.  It was all the
way up towards Stuyvesant, right in front of Stuyvesant
High School.  I don't know how far up that is.
          That's when my partner was in a Cabrini
ambulance with a bunch of other guys in plainclothes
and they found me and they brought me over to Chelsea
Piers.  I still hadn't noticed -- because that's where
staging had been brought to.  Everything was pretty
chaotic there, also, still at that point, doctors that
were setting up forward triages and treatment areas and
there was people everywhere, people that weren't even
13
P. RICHIUSA
involved in the Trade Centers that were just from
Manhattan that were evacuated to that area.  I ran into
a couple of guys from my stations.  I ran back into
Bobby Abril and he asked me, did you see Carlos?  So I
said no, I never even got a chance to get that far.
          From there we just hung out with each other.
The union was there.  They were doing -- the news was
there.  Everybody was asking is everybody okay and
this, that and the other thing, is there anybody that
they know of missing?  That's when my partner
noticed -- we went to go get something to drink because
I had all that powder in my mouth and my eyes and
everything else.  I wanted to get washed off.
          So she said, you know, your shirt's ripped
and your pants are ripped.  I said yeah, it's probably
just nothing.  So she goes let me see, and we pulled
off my shirt and that's when I saw the laceration on
the arm and the laceration on the back, which was, I
don't know, six inches.  She goes, oh, you're going to
need that sewn up.  I said, listen, I don't even notice
that's there, so that's the least of my worries.  She
looked at my leg and it was just a minor abrasion to my
leg.  There was nothing really yet there.
          So from there we went to get something to
14
P. RICHIUSA
drink, came back, and that's when -- I don't know.
Time was pretty -- like I said, I don't even know what
time that was.  That could have been 2:00, 3:00 o'clock
in the afternoon.  So then I went to -- who was it?  I
think it was Captain Sickles sent me to triage, and
that's when I got sewn up on my arm.  Then I went to
the hospital that night and I left at 5:30, which I was
pretty exhausted.  I had an accident on the way home,
too, with the ambulance.
Q. Really?
     A.   Yes.  Somebody turned into me.  Actually, the
actor, Bill Nun, changed the tire for me.  He was a
nice guy.  He came over there and said, oh, you guys
had a hard enough day.  We asked if they needed us back
just before that and they said no, and that's when 7
Trade Center fell.  But by that time they said you guys
are done because we were there for nine hours, ten
hours at that point.  We were pretty exhausted.
          Then we went to Parkway Hospital and they
made the phone calls to confirm that we were alive
besides that, and that was pretty much my day that
day.  Then I was out for the two days because I
couldn't work with the open wounds, with the stitches,
and then I went into my vacation, which was two days
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P. RICHIUSA
before my month's vacation.  So I spent my whole
vacation -- and that night, the next night, after I
went to BHS, my knee swelled up.
          So I went back to the doctor and he said,
well, you probably just sprained it really good.  The
pain didn't go away for like a week or two.  So I went
to get an MRI and that's when they found the tears in
the medial and lateral meniscus.  So my vacation was
spent hobbling around.
     Q.   Anything else you left out or you can think
of now that you want to add?
     A.   No, nothing that I can remember.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   It's all pretty much a blank, that day.
          LIEUTENANT McCOURT:  The time is 8:00
o'clock.  That concludes this interview.  Thank you.
          EMT RICHIUSA:  Thank you.
16
File No. 9110306
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
             EMT DAVID CIRA
   Interview Date:  December 13, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
D. CIRA
2
          LIEUTENANT McCOURT:  The date is December
13th, 2001.  The time is 9:15.  My name is Tom McCourt
from the New York City Fire Department.  We are
currently at Battalion 45, EMS Command.  I'm currently
interviewing --
          EMT CIRA:  EMT David Cira, Division 4.
     Q.   EMT Cira, could you please tell me the events
that took place on September 11th, 2001, from your
perspective, please.
     A.   Shortly after the first plane was announced
over the EMS frequency to have hit the first tower, my
partner and I went 98 from an assignment out of Booth
Memorial Hospital at Main Street and Booth Memorial
Avenue.
     Q.   Who was your partner?
     A.   Felipe Torre.  We were working 50 Adam, Tour
2, Vehicle 466.  We were 98 for about three or four
minutes when the assignment was sent over to our MDT.
We hit the 63, acknowledged the assignment and headed
into Manhattan.  I entered Manhattan via the Brooklyn
Bridge and we made -- where is the Brooklyn Bridge?
     Q.   It's got to be over this side.
A. Wecamedown--thishasgottobeit. I believe we came down John Street, made a right turn
D. CIRA
3
onto Broadway, took that up several blocks, where we
ended up on the corner of -- where we ended up on Vesey
and Broadway, made a left turn onto Vesey Street, and
we were stopped on the corner of Church and Vesey at a
Citibank.  We were flagged down by a woman who had a
couple of patients, one of whom was complaining of
chest pain, and various other injuries and whatnot that
had been patients from the Trade Center itself that had
gotten outside of the triage sector apparently.  We
were there with a North Shore University Hospital truck
that was no special designation.  They were a transport
truck that decided to come out on their own.  I believe
one of the crew members was paramedic Adam Schriebman.
We all began to triage the patients in the area.
          We decided that we were going to move these
individuals across the street to the north side of
Fulton and Church, which it's showing here as a
cemetery, but I remember it to be a Citibank, and we
started to triage the patients when the building -- we
looked outside, there was a rush of people coming down
the block, and someone informed us that the tower was
coming down.  All we could basically do was take
cover.  I lost my partner at that point in time because
of the rustle and I was trying to shield ourself from
D. CIRA
4
the debris.  I lost my partner for somewhere in the
line of -- I would assume it to be around 13, 14
minutes.  We all had apparently walked up northbound on
Church Street.  Like I said, it took about 15 minutes
when I finally met up with a Brooklyn bus.
     Q.   What was the scene like after the collapse?
     A.   Right after?
     Q.   Describe that a little bit.
     A.   It felt like a snowstorm at 3:00 o'clock in
the morning.  It was absolute, total silence.
Everybody and everything was covered.  We had stumbled
upon Captain Janice Olszewski, who was in a pile of --
it appeared to be just a pile of debris.  At that point
in time -- actually, let me step back a bit.  I'm
actually leaving something out.
          When I had walked up north a bit, I'd met up
with a Brooklyn bus, I believe either 39 Adam or 39
Charlie.  I'm not sure.  They took me back -- after the
debris started to settle a bit, they took me back
further south to meet up with my bus again and my
partner, which was at the intersection of, I guess,
Fulton and Church, which is where we found Captain
Olszewski.  At that time we had about seven patients at
the back door of the ambulance that started to gather.
D. CIRA
5
Most of them were police officers.  We had Captain
Olszewski there.  We advised her to get into the
ambulance.  She said she was feeling okay and she was
with another ambulance crew.  We had seven people by
the truck and we just, you know, green tag patients and
we wanted to get them out of there.
          So we took them out of the borough and we
took them to Booth Memorial Hospital.  We took them
back there.  Our reasons for going there were we had to
go out of the borough because they were green tag
patients.  Brooklyn wasn't a feasible option because of
all the traffic coming in and out.  So the next best
thing, we traveled northbound on -- I couldn't tell you
the avenue.  We found our way to the 59th Street
bridge, which I took to the LIE, and I was -- I
bypassed Elmhurst and I bypassed St. John's only
because of the reason -- I bypassed Elmhurst because it
is a major trauma center and a partial burn unit.  I
figured that, if any major patients were going to start
spilling into Queens, leave that open, and then we went
to Booth.  It was right off the LIE, it was open, they
were ready for us.  I notified them on my own cell
phone.
          Then we were seen there at the ER briefly
D. CIRA
6
just to make sure we were okay.  We were both covered
in dust.  Our truck was a disaster.  But to be honest
with you, I don't remember much more than that about
that morning.  If you have any other specifics, I'm
sure you could --
     Q.   Do you remember seeing anybody else other
than the Captain or anybody?
     A.   I saw various EMS workers that I recognized
just by uniform.  Somewhere along the line I remember
seeing Lieutenant Hadala, but I couldn't tell you what
street corner I saw him on.  He was with Paramedic
Chevalo Wilson-DeBriano.  But I don't remember where I
saw them and, honestly, the time frame I really
couldn't tell you because it was just, once those
buildings came down, it was just --
     Q.   You weren't there for the second building,
were you?
     A.   We were pulling away as that was going on.
We were being advised by -- we were driving up through
the crowd.  We were trying to get through a crowd with
a bus full of patients.
Q. Right.
     A.   We were being advised that the second tower
was coming down, and we did, actually, if I'm not
D. CIRA
7
mistaken, we did see the debris cloud from the second
building.  But were we inside the cloud?  No.  We were
cleared by then.
     Q.   So you never made it over to the command post
or anything on the west side?
     A.   Never made it near the command post.  We were
assigned to go to West and Vesey.  That was our
original assignment location.  We never made it there.
We were flagged down, thank God.  Like I said, we were
flagged down on like Fulton and Church, somewhere along
the Fulton and Church vicinity because we were on a
corner and it was a Citibank.  I definitely remember it
being a Citibank because that's my bank and I just
happen to remember that's where we were at.
          Like I said, I took those patients to Queens
and we were seen and we were sent back to the battalion
and were released -- what is that?  LOA, when they
release you -- it was before the end of my tour, but
they said that's okay, you can go home.  Captain Scott
Holliday was at the battalion and he released us for
the remainder of the tour.
     Q.   All right.  Anything else you can think of or
anything?
     A.   I'm sure every time I sit down and tell the
D. CIRA
8
story, I could probably think of something to add into
it, but those are the basics of it.
          LIEUTENANT McCOURT:  Okay.  The time is
0923.  That concludes this interview.  Thank you very
much.
File No. 9110307
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         CAPTAIN RICHARD WELDON
   Interview Date:  December 10, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
R. WELDON
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  Today's date is
     December 10, 2001.  The time is 1655 hours.  This
     is Battalion Chief Ronald Kemly of the Fire
     Department, City of New York.  I'm conducting an
     interview with the following individual:  Captain
     Richard Weldon, assigned to Ladder Company 20 of
     the Fire Department of the City of New York.  The
     interview is taking place in the quarters of
     Ladder 20 in the truck office regarding the events
     of September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Captain Weldon, can you tell me what happened
to you on that day.
     A.   Yes.  I was on the Long Island Expressway,
actually headed north to take care of my mother when
the first plane hit.  Later I was on the Cross Island
Parkway when the second plane hit.  When I got to the
Throgs Neck Bridge and looked downtown, I could see
both towers burning and I realized that I was going to
be needed so I immediately started down there.
          I got down there very quick, down to my
quarters, Ladder 20, and I pulled into my parking
spot,, came up.  There was somebody in my bunker gear
already, so I grabbed my spare bunker gear and my
street shoes and I hopped on 58 truck, which was about
R. WELDON
3
to leave my quarters for the World Trade Center.  They
had a box they were going on for a trapped man.
          We had about 15 people on that truck.  When
we got down there, we were parked about two blocks from
the World Trade Center in the area where they had the
guy reading the magazine, the park, where the guy reads
the magazine.  Within 30 seconds, as we got off the
rig, some of the guys had masks, most of us didn't have
masks.  Some people had radios.  I personally just had
my bunker gear.
          All of a sudden someone yelled run.  Turned
around and this big black cloud was coming at us.  I
started running away from the cloud.  Some people ran
towards buildings and other people, all they had time
to do was duck below the rig.  As I was running down, a
person opened up a door and I jumped in there.  The
black cloud came flying by and one of the people who
were with me, the guy from the squad actually, that was
blown down in that black cloud and we pulled him into
the door.
          At this point, I thought I should go to the
second floor and find the window and do some
reconnaissance rather than just get out in the street
and maybe there would be a second collapse, but one of
R. WELDON
4
the members of 58 truck was panicking and he said we
got to get out there, we got to get out there.  I said
okay, we will go out there.
          We went out there.  It was pitch black we
couldn't see anything.  I told everybody stay against
the wall, we will work our way up the corner and we
will see if everybody is okay.  That's what we did.  We
got up there and kind of everybody came back to the rig
and regrouped.  The darkness started to fade away and
at this point, we all -- I took my men and a couple of
guys from squad.  I had Adrienne Walsh with me and
Gregg Edwards and two guys from squad.
          We walked 30 yards and we found large pieces
of debris laying in the park; duct work and things like
that.  We began searching at that point.  We searched
the entire park area and then decided to make our way
closer and we did that by going south.  We came upon --
we came up from the south, I don't know what the street
was, the one that would run just west of the World
Trade Center as far as I could see, like we went under
a tower.  Eventually we had gone under the tower.  So
that was the street we came up.
          There was a Battalion Chief there and I
walked up and I said, what do you need?  He said go
R. WELDON
5
stand over there.  At this point, I noticed that the
satellite truck was there and nothing was being done
and none of the lines were in operation, so I asked
whose truck it was, the guy says it's mine.  I said
where is the manifold.  He says it's in the truck.  I
said -- I grabbed a few people, some squad people, some
Ladder people, and they went over and they got the
manifold.
          Meanwhile I heard on the radio that the boats
were coming.  I saw an Engine and I told the Engine to
go down and stretch a line from the boat, 3 and a half
inch line, and bring it back.  I started other people
stretching 3 and a half line towards the boat.
          Eventually the two lines met up.  The mistake
we made was not putting an Engine in line, but we got a
3 and a half inch line to the manifold.  There must
have been 15 cars burning and initially being an Engine
officer at one time for most of my career, I was very
concerned about water and nobody was putting any fires
out.  That's why I got into that operation.
          But then I said, now I'm in the truck and I
decided -- I wasn't going to -- we did operate a line
for a short time.  Adrienne Walsh was on the nozzle and
I was backing her up and guys started stretching lines
R. WELDON
6
off the manifold and eventually one line needed more
pressure, so we shut down and they needed to go further
and they hooked into our line and Adrienne Walsh and
myself went closer to the two buildings that had
collapsed.
          When we got there, I saw a guy from Ladder
10.  At this point I didn't know where my other guys
went.  I saw a guy from Ladder 10 and I asked him how
would you get below the World Trade Center, what subway
station.  He told me Rector Street and I don't even
know what the line was.  I asked him if he would come
with me and he did.
          We went down there; Adrienne Walsh, myself, a
guy from Ladder 10 and some other guys, they had
managed to get some flashlights.  We walked about two
blocks in the subway tunnel and we came to a dead end,
a concrete wall that apparently the building had
collapsed right down into the cellar.
          At this point I finally realized that where
the two buildings had gone, because there was only 7
stories of piles, I realized they must have all
collapsed into the ground.  At that point we left and
went back to the site, which there was a command center
right almost between 2 bridges that existed at one
time.
R. WELDON
7
          Didn't report into anybody at this point.  I
was standing there and wondering what to do, when
Battalion Chief Richard Picciotto came out of nowhere
like coming across the pile and I offered him some
water.  He was completely encased in dust.  He just
pointed in the direction and said over there, tell me
where to go.  At this point, myself, a guy from squad,
Larry Cohen, and a proby asked if he could come with
us.
          We went over towards the north tower,
stairwell B where they had -- some survivors had come
out.  When we got there, there was a line coming down
from the pile and initially we helped a guy from Port
Authority, I think he was, down the line.  Then they
said they were going to need some help getting a woman
out.
          At this point, I moved up all the way to
stairwell B.  We got the lady out, passed her down,
then they were trying to dig out, I believe it was a
second Battalion Chief and I waited and stayed there
with them until we were ordered -- well, we were
ordered several times, but the Captain of, I think it
was a rescue company or a squad refused to leave.
R. WELDON
8
Finally he gave up, he said there was nothing he could
do and we all left that area.  This is in the collapse
zone of tower 7.
          At this point, I went down back to the middle
area of the pile and I proceeded to make my way to the
north side of the towers.  At that point, I ran into
Lieutenant Simms, who had another complement of Ladder
20 there.  At this point, I guess I had formally
reported into Deputy Chief Visconti.  He was up on the
North End.  We waited until tower 7 collapsed and at
this point, we went into the area and assessed the
damage that was done to the buildings and to see if we
could control the fires that resulted from the collapse
of tower 7.
          We searched several buildings, decided that
they were sound enough that lines could operate, tower
ladders could go into the area and put the fire out
from tower 7.  We remained in the area till about 11
o'clock that night, 12 o'clock that night.  Myself and
some other of the members of Ladder 20 that had been
there early on.  Then about that time we started
walking back to Ladder 20.  We arrived back at Ladder
20 and another group of guys from Ladder 20 went down
there.
R. WELDON
9
          I wound up -- that next day I had to work and
I wound up going right back down there the next day,
spending the day down there.  They all thought I was on
vacation.  That's about it.  That's what I did.
     Q.   When you said you went to where the guys
rigged the boat, I believe he was in the North Cove
wasn't he, that little park by the North Cove?
     A.   Yes, I'm not familiar with the area.
     Q.   At that point when you were with 58 truck,
the first building had already come down you believe?
     A.   I believe so.
     Q.   You were caught in the second tower collapse?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   When you said you were with squad, you were
referring to squad 18?
     A.   Members of squad 18 who were housed in Ladder
20's quarters.
     Q.   When you said the satellite was there.  You
walked --
     A.   The satellite unit.
     Q.   When you said you walked under a tunnel, was
that the other overpass?
     A.   Yes, the south.
     Q.   Not the south overpass.  When you came back
R. WELDON
10
from where the guy was reading the book, the statue,
you went under an overpass there too, right?  That's by
1 Liberty Plaza, I believe, where they set up the
triage center later on?  You are not sure, okay.
     A.   No, actually I think we went two blocks south
of where maybe like Engine 10 and Ladder 10 would be.
Two blocks south and then crossed over and then made
our way up.
     Q.   The last thing I have to ask is the satellite
you referred to, was that nine?
     A.   I really can't tell you.  I can't tell you.
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  If you have nothing
     else that concludes the interview.  Thank you.

FILE NO 9110308
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER GEORGE KOZLOWSKI
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 10 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

KOZLOWSKI
BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY THE TIME IS 1620 HOURS THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF RONALD KEMLY OF
THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH GEORGE KOZLOWSKI OF LADDER 20 HE IS ASSIGNED TO LADDER 20 OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT THE INTERVIEW IS
TAKING PLACE IN THE QUARTERS OF LADDER 20 IN THE OFFICES QUARTERS REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001
FIREMAN KOZLOWSKI TELL ME WHAT HAPPENED ON SEPTEMBER 11
WE JUST GOT RELIEVED AFTER 0900 FIREMAN
ESCOFRERY AND MYSELF WE SAW THE PLANE COMING OVER SORT OF OVER QUARTERS AND THEN THE INITIAL CRASH WE HEARD THE INITIAL CRASH 20 TRUCK AND SQUAD 18 TOOK
OFF RIGHT AWAY AND KENNY AND WE WERE JUST STANDING THERE AND TIMMY HASKELL WITH SQUAD WAS THERE ALSO AND
HE WAS GOING DOWN THERE SO THEY GRABBED CAN THE BREAD TRUCK THEIR OTHER RIG
SAY
KENNY AND GOT REDRESSED AND TIMMY HASKELL SAME THING AND WE TOOK OFF IN THEIR HAZMAT SPARE RIG
APPR
TOWER WHERE THE PLANE HIT WE PULLED UP ALONGSIDE
SQUAD 18S RIG AND JUST BEFORE 20S RIG AT THAT POINT
TH HAZMAT RIG
TH TH

KOZLOWSKI
WE WERE LOOKING UP AND WE SAW THE PEOPLE JUMPING ALREADY WE THOUGHT IT WAS PARTS OF THE BUILDING
COMING DOWN BUT IT WAS JUMPERS WE MUST HAVE SEEN WHILE WE WERE STANDING OUTSIDE AT THAT POINT BECAUSE WE WERE LOOKING ON OUR RIG FOR ANY TOOL THAT WE COULD FIND WE DIDNT HAVE RADIOS THINK TIMMY HASKELL
HAD RADIO BUT WILL GET BACK TO THAT
SO WE GOT COUPLE OF TOOLS THINK TWO AXES
AND HALOGEN BUT NO THERE WAS NO RADIO AROUND AS WE WENT INSIDE ON THE WEST STREET SIDE OF THE NORTH
TOWER INTO THE LOBBY CANT REMEMBER THE COMPANIES REALLY THERE WAS BUNCH OF COMPANIES STANDING FAST
JUST CANT PICTURE IT RIGHT NOW WE WERE RIGHT BY THE COMMAND POST DID SEE GANCI CHIEF HAYDEN
FEEHAN VON ESSEN WHO ELSE THE AIDE WHO WAS IT KEVIN WA THINK IT WAS KEVIN WA THE AIDE
WE FIRST INITIALLY WE WANTED TO TELL SOMEBODY THAT WE WERE THERE SO THEY KNEW WE WERE THERE WE TRIED TO GET CHIEF HAYDEN BECAUSE HE KNEW US WE KNEW US WHILE HE WAS AT DIVISION
THINK KENNY GOT DID TELL HIM
AT THAT
DIDNT WANT TO GO ROAM OFF FAR AWAY BECAUSE WE DIDNT HAVE RADIO AT THAT POINT WE HEARD MORE JUMPERS
JUST STANDING FAST
ANYWAY

KOZLOWSKI
HITTING THE OUTSIDE AWNING WE THOUGHT IT WAS STUFF BUT MAN THE SOUND OF THOSE BODIES CRASHING DOWN WAS
UNBELIEVABLE MEAN GIANT THUMP WE DID SEE BODIES THAT GOT PULLED OUT OF THE ELEVATORS BECAUSE ALL THE
ELEVATORS FELL THEN KENNY AND JUST THOUGHT WELL LETS JUST WALK IN THE MAIN LOBBY THERE AND MAYBE TRY
AND PRY OPEN AND SEE IF ANYBODY IS LEFT IN THE ELEVATOR ITSELF
WE DID QUICK WALK AROUND IN THAT SECTION BUT THERE WERE ONLY COUPLE THAT WERE CLOSED WE
COULD WEDQE IT OPEN LITTLE AND TAKE LOOK THERE WERE NO OTHER BODIES THERE WAS ABOUT THREE OR FOUR BODIES THAT WERE PULLED FROM THE ELEVATOR AND THEY WERE COVERED UP ALREADY
WE WENT BACK CLOSER TO THE COMMAND POST AND AT THAT POINT THERE WERE MORE JUMPERS AND THERE WERE
BODY PARTS FLYING INTO THE LOBBY AT THAT POINT THEY STARTED TO MOVE THE COMMAND POST BECAUSE ALL THAT SHIT
WAS JUST FLYING IN MEAN YOU KNOW CHUNKS
KENNY AND FORGOT WHO ASKED US IT
WAS ONE OF THE OFFICERS AT THAT POINT THERE WERE
KT FR TH LTHBY TH
AREA AND THEY WERE ASKING US TO TELL THE PEOPLE TO KEEP MOVING MOVE MOVE SO HE GOES WHY DONT YOU TAKE

KOZLOWSKI
WALK UP TO THE THIRD FLOOR THE THIRD FLOOR THROUGH THE STAIRWELL HE GOES PEOPLE ARE YOU KNOW HOW NARROW THOSE STAIRWELLS ARE AS BIG AS THAT BUILDING IS
THERE WAS LOT OF WATER COMING DOWN FROM THE
STAIRS LOT OF PEOPLE WERE PANICKING SO WE KEPT PUSHING THEM OUT PUSHED THEM TO THAT SECOND FLOOR
LOBBY AND THEN IT WAS GETTING PRETTY BAD OUT THERE BECAUSE COULDNT TELL YOU WHAT SIDE GUESS THE JET
FUEL AND EVERYTHING THAT WAS FLYING DOWN WAS REALLY KICKINQ UP ON THE OUTSIDE WE LET THEM KNOW TOO AND
WE WERE AFRAID BECAUSE THOSE BIG PLATE WINDOWS WE WANTED TO GET THE PEOPLE AWAY FROM THERE IN CASE IT
BLEW AND THATS EVENTUALLY WHAT HAPPENED THANK GOD KENNY AND WE CLOSED OFF THAT DOOR SO NOBODY COULD GO
DOWN THERE ANY MORE
AT THAT POINT WE WERE CANT REMEMBER
HOW LONG WE WERE ON THAT THIRD FLOOR PUSHING THE PEOPLE THROUGH THATS WHEN WE FELT BIG GIANT TREMBLE LIKE
MINI EARTHQUAKE THAT WAS THE SOUTH TOWER COLLAPSING WE DIDNT SEE IT BUT WE REALLY FELT IT
ALL TH LIGHTS SHUT TH LIGHTS TH STAIRWELL AND EVERYTHING PEOPLE WERE STARTING TO REALLY PANIC

KOZLOWSKI
THEN THERE WAS ANOTHER SMALL EXPLOSION ON
THAT SECOND FLOOR GUESS IT WAS THAT PLATE WINDOWS EVERYTHING GOING THATS WHEN WE ENCOUNTERED
ENGINE THEY WERE COMING DOWN FROM THE FOURTH FLOOR OR WHATEVER DIDNT SEE THEIR OFFICER MIGHT HAVE BUT IT WAS DARK AT THAT POINT TOO AND THEN LETS
SEE THERE WERE COUPLE OF OTHER PROBIES THERE
THINK THEY WERE PROBIES BECAUSE YOU KNOW YOU LOOK
BUT IT WAS MOSTLY
ANOTHER NOT
LUCKILY
THAT GUY FOUND IT BECAUSE STUCK THAT HE KNEW ABOUT
WOULD HAVE FOUND IT
THINK WE WOULD HAVE GOT
IT BECAUSE DONT THINK WE
ENGINE THERE WORKING ON TO FIND STAIRWELL AN EXIT TO GO OUT
PERSON WAS COMINQ DOWN DONT KNOW FROM WHAT FLOOR BUT ON THE THIRD FLOOR ENCOUNTERED
US HE SAYS NO KNOW ANOTHER EXIT DOWN THIS WAY WELL THAT WAS THE ONLY OTHER DOOR THAT WE COULD GET
OUT IT WAS LUCKY BECAUSE LOT OF THE OTHER PEOPLE BECAUSE IT WAS PITCH BLACK NOW SO KENNY WELL
WE ALL LINED UP IT WAS NOT LIKE LONG WALK BUT
GOOD ENOUGH WALK TO GET TO THE OTHER EXIT IT WAS GOOD
OKAY TH
WE JUST TOLD THE PEOPLE WHICH WAY TO GO THEN WE HAD
MAD LIN AND PUSH THE PEOPLE NOT TO GO THROUGH THAT THIRD FLOOR DOOR AND

KOZLOWSKI
FLASHLIGHTS OTHER PEOPLE HAD FLASHLIGHTS SO EVERYONE MADE IT AND WE KEPT PUSHING PEOPLE THROUGH GO GO MOVE MOVE THERE WAS ONE GUY WE THOUGHT HE WAS
HAVING HEART ATTACK WE GOT HIM UP AND WE PUT HIM ON
CHAIR HE WAS PRETTY HEAVY SET SO THINK IT WAS ONE OF THE GUYS FROM ENGINE THAT SAID KEEP GOING
WILL STAY HERE WITH HIM AND TRY TO GET HIM OUT
SO WE JUST KEPT GOING MOVED MORE THROUGH WENT DOWNSTAIRS GOT THROUGH IT WASNT THE MAIN
LOBBY WHERE THE COMMAND POST WAS WE MADE IT THROUGH
THAT WAY GOT DOWNSTAIRS AND THERE WAS LIKE IT
WAS LIKE GIANT COURTYARD OR SOMETHING AND SOMEBODY OUT THERE WAS BLACK BATTALION CHIEF FORGOT HIS
NAME ANOTHER GUY THAT SAYS NO NO KEEP GOING THROUGH HERE DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT BUILDING IT WAS THAT WAS
ADJACENT TO THE TRADE CENTER RIGHT THERE IT WAS CLOSER TO THE WEST STREET SIDE
AT THAT POINT THERE WERE MORE JUMPERS IN THAT COURTYARD AND MORE THERE WAS QUITE BIT MORE
DEBRIS FROM THE BUILDING FALLING FROM THE UPPER FLOORS SO WE SET UP LIKE ONE GUY STAYED WHERE
TH
TO THE
AN
WHERE THAT OTHER BUILDING WAS OR SOMETHING
THR AND
COUPLE OF US WOULD LOOK TO SEE IF ANYTHING IS
GUY
RAN

KOZLOWSKI
FALLING AND THEN TELL THE PEOPLE RUN RUN RUN AND THEN WAIT TO SEE IF ANYTHING ELSE FELL LUCKILY NOT TOO
MANY THINGS FELL IT WAS GOOD HOOKING UP LIKE THAT TO MAKE SURE
AT THAT POINT ALL THE PEOPLE THAT WERE WITH US OR WHATEVER THERE WERE QUITE FEW THAT WAS IT
SO AT THAT POINT THINK THE CHIEF SAYS HANG OUT HERE IN CASE SOME OTHER PEOPLE COME BACK KNOW THERE WAS
PROBY WITH US ESCOFRERY AND ANOTHER GUY THE CHIEF TOOK OFF WE HEARD LIKE LOT OF TREMBLING AND EVERYTHINQ SO WE BETTER QET OUT OF HERE THIS DOESNT LOOK GOOD THERE IS NO MORE PEOPLE COMING
SO WE STARTED WALKING THE SAME WAY THE CHIEF WENT AND HE WAS AT THE OTHER END HE SAID THE SAME THING HE SAID WE BETTER GET OUR ASSES OUT OF HERE
THIS DOESNT LOOK GOOD AT ALL AS WE WERE WALKING WE
HEARD WAS LIKE
THAT IT
STARTED BOOKING WE TOOK OFF LIKE BATS OUT OF HELL
WE MADE IT AROUND THE CORNER AND THATS WHEN TH SHIT HIT TH FAN RIGHT TH AND TH
THAT LOUD AND THEN BA BOOM JUST IT WAS LIKE AN EARTHQUAKE OR WHATEVER GIANT GIANT EXPLOSION
WE THOUGHT IT WAS ANOTHER PLANE COMING IT BIG SHHHHH THOUSAND TIMES LOUDER THAN
SOUNDED LIKE MISSILE COMING AND WE JUST

KOZLOWSKI
THAT
IMPACT CLOSED MY EYES JUST THE IMPACT COULD
JUST FEEL SHIT HITTING ME FLYING
THINK SOMETHING FELL ON MY BACK THAT
PROTECTED ME FROM SOME OF THE OTHER STUFF THAT FELL
LUCKILY COUPLE OF THINGS HIT MY HELMET THEN IT WAS JUST THAT IMPACT AND WAS IN FETAL POSITION JUST
HOLDING MY HELMET SHAKING THEN THIS BIG GUST CAME
AND JUST WENT FLYING MAYBE 30 40 FEET TUMBLING GOT UP GOT ON MY HANDS AND KNEES BECAUSE
KENNY MADE IT AND
THOSE OTHER GUYS MADE IT AROUND THIS LIKE THE LAST GUY AND JUST TURNED SORT OF FFFFFFFF JUST DID FETAL
BEND HERE AROUND AND
WAS
JUST
CRAWLED DOWN AND HELD THANK GOD
POSITION
HELMET SAVED MY LIFE JUST HELD ONTO IT AND THE
ALL OF THE WHITE SHIT WAS ALL OVER ME
CRAWLING MY EARS WERE LIKE DEAF YOU KNOW WHEN YOU
HEAR GIANT FIRECRACKER OR SOMETHING
WENT COULDNT SEE
JUST KEPT
THEN SAW FLASHING LIGHTS SAID OH MAN
CRAWLING SPITTING THAT SHIT OUT AND
ANYTHING BECAUSE EVERYTHING WAS WHITE
CRAWLING TRIED TO YELL OUT KENNY KENNY ESCOFRERY BUT EVERYTHING WAS SO MUFFLED DIDNT KNOW WHAT ELSE WAS HAPP JUST TRI FUCKING UT OF THERE
JUST KEPT

KOZLOWSKI
AT LEAST THERE IS SOMETHING THERE AT THIS POINT
DIDNT EVEN KNOW THOUGHT IT WAS LIKE PART OF
THE BUILDING COLLAPSING GOT UP TO THE CAR AND IT WAS LIKE SUBURBAN AND THE LIGHTS WERE STILL ON AND IT
WAS RUNNING GOT IN THERE OPENED THE DOOR THERE WAS NOBODY IN THERE AT FIRST WAS JUST GOING TO GET
IN THE SUBURBAN AND WAIT IT OFF OR SOMETHING WAIT
UNTIL IT CLEARED OFF SAID IM GETTING MY ASS OUT OF HERE DONT KNOW WHATS GOING TO HAPPEN
SO KEPT CRAWLING AND SAW ANOTHER FLASHING LIQHT AND WAS YELLINQ OUT KENNY KENNY HEY ANYBODY OUT THERE HELP THATS WHEN HEARD KENNY HE
ALREADY WAS WALKING BACK TO SEE WHERE WAS WE MET UP HE GOES LETS GO LETS GO BECAUSE WE WERE DYING OF THIRST NOW TOO FROM SWALLOWING THAT SHIT
THEN IT STARTED CLEARING UP LITTLE WE WERE ON THE WEST STREET SIDE THAT WAS IT WE JUST
KEPT WALKING AND JUST WALKING TRYING TO FIND SOME WATER WE SAW SOME OTHER TRUCKS THERE FORGOT WHAT
COMPANIES THEY WERENT AFFECTED WITH IT BUT IT WAS
MOSTLY EVERYTHING WAS COVERED WHITE
MAD IT TH STR TH WAS
THERE WITH AN OPEN HYDRANT WASHING EVERYBODY DOWN SHE WAS VERY NICE SHE SAID KNEEL DOWN BECAUSE WE
10

KOZLOWSKI
WERE COVERED IN SHIT WE MADE IT WE WERE ON WEST STREET GOT SOME WATER WE WERE JUST SITTING THERE
WANTING TO CATCH OUR BREATH WE WERE LOOKING AT THIS SHIT AND SAYING OH MY GOD WONDER WHERES OUR
GUYS
TOOK LITTLE REST THERE AND WE STARTED WALKING BACK TO ASK PEOPLE IF THEY SAW 20 OR 55 OR
SQUAD THATS INITIALLY TRUCK OR SOMETHING TRUCK MADE IT OUT BECAUSE THEY KNOW OUR GUYS THATS WHY
AT THIS POINT WE SAW OH GOD WE DIDNT CATCH UP WITH ANYBODY THAT SAW 20
WE WAITED THERE WE SAID LETS HOLD OFF MAYBE SOME OTHER COMPANIES WILL COME OUT AND WE WILL
ASK THEM MAYBE LIKE THE FIRST SECOND THIRD DUE COMPANIES THAT WOULD KNOW ANYBODY IF THEY DID SEE 20
BECAUSE INITIALLY THEY PROBABLY ALL SHOWED UP TOGETHER THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN ON THE SAME FLOOR OR
THEY PASSED THEM ON THE STAIRWELL
HUNG OUT THERE FOR QUITE SOMETIME JUST
HOPING SOMEBODY SAW THEM OR SO AT THIS POINT KENNY AND SAID WE CANT LETS WALK BACK TO TRUCK
MAYB TH KN BACK TRUCK AND WERE THEY BACK ALREADY THERE WERE BUNCH OF GUYS THERE ALREADY THAT GOT CALLED FOR RECALL THERE WERE
11

KOZLOWSKI
SOME OFFICERS THAT RETIRED THAT CAME DOWN TO HELP OUT LIEUTENANT WOODS REMEMBER WOODSY HE WAS THERE
THEN COUPLE OF THE GUYS FROM TRUCK CAME BACK AND THEY DIDNT THEY SAID THEY DID SEE THEM ON
THE STAIRWELL AFTER THAT THEY LOST THEM BEFORE BECAUSE THEY WERE MAKING THEIR WAY DOWN FROM THE 30TH
FLOOR OR SOMETHING THEY SAW 20 ON THE 35TH FLOOR OR
SOMETHING 28TH FLOOR OR SOMETHING THEY WERENT SURE IM TRYINQ TO
BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY OKAY
HAVE COUPLE OF MAYBE CLARIFYING POINTS NOTHING WHEN YOU SAID YOU RESPONDED WITH THE RED
TRUCK AND YOU PARKED NEAR SQUAD 18 AND LADDER 20 DO YOU KNOW WHERE THAT LOCATION WAS
THE VESEY STREET DO YOU KNOW WHERE THAT WHERE THE NORTH WALKWAY WAS
YES
THAT AIDE YOU SAID WAS WAH CHRIS WAH THE
DIVISION AIDE
WHEN YOU SAID YOU MET ENGINE ORIGINALLY YOU SAID YOU WENT TO THE STAIRCASE WAS THAT THERE
12

KOZLOWSKI
WHERE WAS THE STAIRCASE
YES YES
THERE SO
NO OTHER FIRE DEPARTMENT UNITS PASSED YOU NO
THAT YOU KNOW OF
YES BECAUSE THERE WERE LOT OF PROBIES
DIDNT KNOW WHAT COMPANIES
WHEN THIS GUY DIRECTED YOU TO THE OTHER EXIT
WHEN YOU WERE ESCORTING PEOPLE OUT OF THE FROM THE THIRD FLOOR TO THE SECOND FLOOR THAT
STAIRWAY
WAS ALSO THE STAIRCASE
UH HUH IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN NO THAT WAS THE THAT WAS THE
NO FIRE DEPARTMENT PERSONNEL CAME OUT ALL CIVILIANS OTHER THAN ENGINE
WHAT SAW YES BECAUSE THEY WERE BEHIND US WE HAD TO KEEP WALKINQ IN FRONT AND THESE QUYS
WOULD STAY BY THE DOOR
DOWN THE HALLWAY THAT EXIT WASNT MARKED OR ANYTHING WAS IT LIKE EXIT
IT WAS PITCH DARK
IT WAS BASICALLY TYP XIT LITTLE WIDER STAIRCASE MAYBE
NO WOULDNT SAY IT WAS WIDER
13

14
WHEN YOU FINALLY DID GET OUT YOU HEADED TOWARDS WEST STREET
WALKWAY
UH HUH
THAT SAME CORNER THAT YOU TURNED WAS WITH THE
NO NO THAT WASNT WALKWAY WHEN YOU LEFT
KOZLOWSKI
THE TWO OF YOU AND BASICALLY ENGINE RIGHT
OKAY WE WENT TO THE NORTH WALKWAY SO WE WERE QOINQ OPPOSITE WE WERE OPPOSITE OF THAT WALKWAY WE WERE AWAY FROM THAT WALKWAY
YOU HEADED BACK MAYBE TOWARDS CHURCH STREET YES MAYBE PROBABLY YES
WHEN YOU CAME OUT MAYBE YOU WERE ON VESEY
AND MADE YOUR WAY UP TO CHURCH
DONT THINK IT WAS VESEY BECAUSE IT WAS
ALL BIG LIKE COURTYARDS THAT WE MADE OUR THERE WAS LOADING DOCK THAT WE WENT DOWN
COULD IT HAVE BEEN BARCLAY MAYBE
DONT KNOW MAYBE WE WERE GOING OPPOSITE CAST WH
RIGHT WE WERENT CLOSE TO THAT THE WALKWAY WE WENT WAY AROUND

THERE TOO
YES
KOZLOWSKI
WHEN YOU WALKED BACK TOWARDS WEST STREET DID
YOU HAPPEN TO SEE ANY APPARATUS MAYBE DESTROYED
NO NOT AT THIS POINT THEY WERE ALL BY THE
WALKWAY
AND 20
THE ONLY ONES THAT YOU CAN REMEMBER ARE 18
WHEN WE PULLED UP RIGHT
55 YOU SAW 55
ENGINE
THINK SO BECAUSE THEY WERE USUALLY RIQHT
THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN PARKED IN FRONT
YES THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN ON WEST TOO YOU KNOW WHEN WE DO RESPOND THERE THATS WHERE WE ALWAYS
THERE
BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY IF YOU HAVE NOTHING
ELSE THAT CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW THANK YOU
PARK RIGHT
15
File No. 9110309
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER ANTHONY SALERNO
   Interview Date:  December 10, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  The date is December
     10, 2001.  The time is eleven o'clock in the
     morning.
          This is Battalion Chief Ronald Kemly of the
     Fire Department of the City of New York.  I'm
     conducting an interview with Anthony Salerno,
     fireman 1st grade, of Engine Company 24 of the
     Fire Department of the City of New York.
          The interview is taking place at the quarters
     of Engine 24 regarding the events of September 11,
     2001.
     Q.   Fireman Salerno, could you please tell me
what happened to you on September 11?
     A.   On September 11, I was on my way into the
city.  Being on vacation, I had just come back from a
road trip.  I was going to come in in the morning and
bullshit with the guys.
          I had not known at the point when I woke up
that the buildings were attacked.  On my way in, I
noticed the trade center on fire, turned on 1010, and
listened to the thing on my way in.
          On my way in, the recall, the active recall,
was engaged.  I had gotten to the firehouse probably
around ten after nine, was on the phone with Mike
A. SALERNO
3
Paolone.  He was the -- he was working in Queens.  He
had told me to look across, look at the television.  I
saw the first building come down.
          At that point, I noticed a bunch of guys
coming into the firehouse -- Captain Varriale coming
in, Billy McCarthy, Frankie McCutchen, Chris McArdle.
We all had come in, and we were all ready to go down to
the trade center, knowing that both companies and the
battalion were down there.
          We left the firehouse probably around a
quarter after nine with two volunteers.  One, a
volunteer fireman, his first name was Tony.  The second
guy was a construction worker whose brother had been
working at the trade center on the 110th Floor, I
believe.
          We got down to -- we got down as far as West
Broadway and Chambers Street.  At West Broadway and
Chambers, we drove down with Captain Varriale in his
pickup.  We took some tools that we had grabbed out of
the firehouse and some EMS supplies.
          We got down to West Broadway and Chambers.
We parked the rig.  We walked down as far as West
Broadway, and I would say Barclay and came back up,
noticing that there was nothing but three blocks of
A. SALERNO
4
fire from Barclay down to Vesey, which would bring you
to the north tower of the trade center.
          We found car fires.  We found buses on fire,
but we happened to find a volunteer rig from the Bronx
that was still in there.  It was a old LaFrance.  I got
in the rig, backed the rig out with everybody helping,
parked the rig on West Broadway, and found the rig on
West Broadway between Barclay and Park, and backed the
rig out and hooked up to a hydrant on West Broadway and
Warren, and ended up supplying whatever lines we can
get off the rig with -- using whatever fittings we
could use off their rig, and I remember the water
pressure being very low.
          We ended up putting out as many fires as we
could from West Broadway and Warren all the way down to
West Broadway and Vesey.
          Putting out all those fires, in that interim,
the second building had come down.  I remember hearing
a lot of explosions, the street turning completely
gray, gray clouds of smoke all over the place.
Everybody had stopped what they were doing and ran back
up the block.
          We ran up West Broadway past Chambers,
regrouped when the dust settled, and there was a
A. SALERNO
5
command post that was established at the time.  I
remember seeing Chief Daly and another chief -- I don't
remember his name -- coming down to West Broadway and
Barclay and setting up a command post.
          I remember finding Engine Company 6's rig,
stripping that rig of fittings and hose to hook up to
anybody else.  I remember at that time also they were
worried about Building 7 because when the second tower
came down, they were worried about parts of --
actually, when the first tower came down, they were
worried about parts of Building 7 collapsing, so I
remember getting into Building 7 and searching.
          I got separated from the crew that I had gone
down with, because I stayed at the pump panel.  They
had gone around the West Street side of the building
and into the rubble.
          I hooked up with a Lieutenant Ryan from 15
engine and Richie Cipoletti from Engine Company 55.  We
hooked up with as many people as we could.
          We went to the command post, the true command
post, which was set up at that day on Broadway and
Chambers.  We ended up getting assigned to a Staten
Island firehouse engine company.  We manned a hose line
across the street from Tower 1 or what was remaining of
A. SALERNO
6
it, and I remember that building taking off in fire, so
there was really nothing we could do with our one hand
line.
          I remember coming out of the building now
because they were afraid of Building 7 coming down, and
all the other buildings around it getting knocked
down.  So they took us out of the building.
          I remember Building 7 coming down, again,
with dust clouds, getting separated momentarily.  I
remember Staten Island companies all over the place.  I
remember a Brooklyn company coming, a Brooklyn engine
company coming in, when I was still hooked up on West
Broadway and Warren.
          I don't remember the company's name, but it
definitely was a Brooklyn company.  I used their rig
for parts also, and after the second building had come
down, they had left their rig and was part of the
command post on West Broadway and Barclay.
          After that I stayed with the Staten Island
company for quite awhile.  We ended up working with
some Brooklyn truck companies, and some Staten Island
engine companies, a Brooklyn chief, just going through
the various buildings after the building had gone down
to see if anybody was still in there or if we could do
A. SALERNO
7
anything, putting out various little fires that were
about from the rubble, and got back to my firehouse
probably around 11:30, 12 o'clock, September 11 night,
back to the quarters of Engine Company 24 and Ladder
5.
          And that's what I did that day.
     Q.   Good.  And you couldn't remember any of the
numbers of the Brooklyn companies, right?
     A.   No, I couldn't remember the Brooklyn
companies.
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  Thank for you the
     interview, and that's it.
File No. 9110310
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER CHARLES GAFFNEY
   Interview Date:  December 10, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  The date is December
     10, 2001.  The time is 10:30 in the morning, and
     this is Battalion Chief Ronald H. Kemly of the
     Fire Department of the City of New York.
          I am conducting an interview with the
     following:  Firefighter CHARLES GAFFNEY, fireman
     1st grade, assigned to Engine 24, Fire Department
     of the City of New York.
          The interview is taking place at the quarters
     of Engine 24 in the engine office regarding the
     events of September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Fireman Gaffney, could you please tell me in
your own words what happened on September 11 and your
experience?
     A.   I just got relieved by a probie, one of the
seven-week probies in Ladder 5, about 8:30.  Sitting in
the kitchen, tones went off.  It was for the trade
center.  A plane hit the trade center.
          I thought it was an accident, and I turned on
New York 1, and I could see the hole in the building.
Myself, couple of other guys that just got off crossed
the street.  We looked down the block, saw the trade
center and we said, "Oh, we better get down there."
Myself, Lieutenant Giammona, Jimmy Miller, Jimmy
C. GAFFNEY
3
Esposito got dressed, and we started down there.
          On our way, Chief Prunty came by.  He got
dressed and came down with us.  We walked down to
Varrick Street.  An off-duty firefighter pulled over
with a pickup truck.  We got in the back.  We headed
down there.
          On our way down there, he told us that a
second plane -- he heard on the radio that a second
plane had just hit the other tower.  So we were all
discussing -- not panicking but discussing, you know,
what's going on here.  It kind of dawned on us that it
was a terrorist attack at that point.
          He drove us down there and dropped us off on
Vesey Street right by Tower 7, and we proceeded into
Tower 1 around the corner.  We saw Engine 24 parked on
the corner.  We stowed our shoes that we were carrying
with us at Engine 24.
          We went into the Tower 1 lobby, and I noticed
the command post was already set up, saw Commissioner
Von Essen there in the lobby, and Battalion Chief
McGovern.  We went to Battalion Chief McGovern.
Lieutenant Giammona told him, "Make us a unit.  Put us
to work.  We're here."  He said, "Okay."
          Lieutenant Giammona got a radio from
C. GAFFNEY
4
somewhere, and they made us Ladder 5-B, and we met 9
truck on their way up the stairs.  We met 9 truck on
the way up the stairs, and there was another engine
company.  I don't remember what engine company it was,
but I grabbed -- they were all carrying extra bottles,
and since we had no masks or no equipment, we grabbed
their extra gear and helped them.  Me and Jimmy, Jimmy
Esposito, grabbed roll-ups and a bottle and carried it
upstairs for these guys, because they were
overburdened.
          We walked up.  We got up to about the 10th
Floor, and there was a chief on the floor who told
us -- I don't know what chief it was.  I don't know who
he was.  He said guys are already working their way
down.  He wanted us to start working our way up
searching floors, going in on each floor, walking
around the perimeter of the building, looking to see if
anybody was on the floors, panicking, or trapped or
whatever.  So me and Esposito started doing that.
          Vinnie Giammona, he flew up the stairs in
front of us.  Lieutenant Giammona, I should say.  He
had a radio.  He went up the stairs.  We lost track of
him as we were searching the lower floors.
          We made our way up to about the 21st Floor.
C. GAFFNEY
5
We met up with Engine 65 somewhere along the line
there, and we were kind of listening to the officer of
Engine 65's radio.  We heard like a continuous roar,
like a thunder, and the building shook.
          All in between there was all foggy.  I don't
remember what happened in between there.  Like, all I
remember was once the building started shaking, I
forgot everything else that was going on.  It was like
you were being thrown around on the floor.
          We made our way into the stairway, and there
were a few guys from Engine 65 in that stairway.  There
were no civilians in the stairs at that time.  Most of
them had -- must have gotten out by then from below the
crash, but I remember hearing a radio transmission,
"Urgent!"  I don't know who gave it, but I remember
hearing an "Urgent!" that all inside operations were
off.  Everybody out of the building, and we all started
running down the stairs.
          I remember seeing Faust, Battalion 28, on the
10th Floor in a doorway, and he was directing guys
down.  He must have been waiting for Chief McGovern,
who had gone up ahead of us.  I think he was on the
24th Floor.  I left out -- I thought I heard -- I heard
a radio transmission, and I thought it was Lieutenant
C. GAFFNEY
6
Giammona, that he was on the 44th Floor, something
about an elevator.  I'm not sure if there were people
in the elevator or he found an elevator that was
working, but he was trying to get through a message.
It was his voice.  It was unmistakable, that he had an
elevator on the 44th Floor.
          I do remember seeing Chief McGovern when we
were on 20 or so go past me on his way up, and on the
way down I saw his aide, Faust, and I said to Faust,
 "Come on, get out of here.  They are ordering us out.
Let's get out."  He said he was waiting for the chief,
and then when we got down, when we finally got down to
the bottom, the lobby was a mess.  It wasn't like a
clear run out of the building.
          I went out the same way I came in, so I knew
where I was going.  There was a pile of crap in the
lobby, marble, Sheetrock, all that stuff.  It was
smoky, hazy, and when I got out in the street, it was a
cloud.  I had no idea what time it was, how long I was
in there.
          I remember running north at first under a
scaffolding that was up and looking to my left, which
was west, and I could see, so I ran west, and as I was
running west, there were a bunch of firefighters in the
C. GAFFNEY
7
street.  I remember guys screaming, "It's coming down,"
so I was, like, running for my life.
          When I got -- I ran as far as the water, and
then I started running north when I got to the water, a
little park.  That was Vesey Street, I guess, I took to
the water.  I started running north, and that pier,
whatever that one -- whatever you want to call that
ended, so you had to run back east to get further
north.
          By that time, the second building had already
come down.  I was shedding gear as I was running, so I
went back for my gear, so that I could go back and look
for people, because I wasn't sure where the guys I had
gone down with were.  We all disbursed, so I was
looking for Jimmy Miller, and Jimmy Esposito and Vinnie
Giammona.  I don't know when I met up with them again,
but I think it was on West Street, maybe a couple of
blocks north of Vesey.
          I remember running into John Ottrando, who
was the engine chauffeur, when I ran out of the
building.  When I started running west, I remember
seeing him, and he was covered in white, and I told him
to run.  I don't know which way he ran.  I think he ran
north as I was running west, and then little by little,
C. GAFFNEY
8
you know, started running into people, and that was
really all, and then we started going back looking for
people.
     Q.   I have a few questions, if you are finished.
     A.   Yeah.  There are things I don't remember,
like parts I'm sure I'm forgetting, but I think about
things sometimes when I'm home or alone or something
and something will pop in my head, and I said, wow, I
forgot that even happened.
     Q.   Great.  I mean not great that you remember
stuff like that, but you did a pretty good job here.
          You were with those three guys, Lieutenant
Giammona, Miller and Esposito --
     A.   Right.
     Q.   -- originally?
     A.   When I got on -- I left this out.  When we
got in the back of this guy's pickup truck, Chief
Prunty was with us on Varrick Street.
Q. Right.
     A.   Another SUV of some type pulled up, and he
said -- he must have been an off-duty firefighter, too,
because he said to Chief Prunty, "Chief, get in with
us."  One of the guys got out and went in the back and
let the chief in the front seat.  They followed the
C. GAFFNEY
9
truck we were in, the pickup truck we were in.  They
followed us, and the chief got out, and he came in the
lobby with us.
          Then Chief Prunty I never saw again that
day.  I don't know when he went to the command.  I saw
him go to the command post.  I don't know where he was
assigned to go, you know, what he was doing.
          Nine truck we were with on the way up the
stairs, and we were carrying their bottles and their
roll-ups, whoever's roll-ups they had.  They had
roll-ups with them.  It must have been an engine with
them.  I'm not sure if it was 33.
          I remember seeing the guys from 65 out in the
street after we got out, like, whoever the officer was
on 65 that day.  It was his radio we were listening to
to get out of the building.  I remember seeing them in
the street later, and we were all glad to see one
another that we got out.
          Like I said, when everyone started running
down the stairs, firemen -- it was all firemen.  Nobody
knew where -- everybody ran in separate directions, and
there was an ironworker in the lobby -- I remember
that -- directing people out of the building, telling
them not to walk, to run, because there was stuff
falling.
C. GAFFNEY
10
          I'd say there's a lot -- there are so many
things -- like, on our way in, we had to avoid jumpers
or bodies coming down.  I remember seeing one about 20
feet away from me as we were approaching the end of the
scaffolding before we went into Tower 1, and then as we
got there, one landed five feet from me.
          Then one guy stood and looked up, and it was
like being in the military.  He'd say, "Okay, come on.
Oh, hold up.  Something is coming down.  Hold up.  All
right, come on.  Come on," and it was bodies that were
coming down.
     Q.   When you say you went to the command post,
you said Tower 1, is that the north tower?
A. Yes.
     Q.   So you were operating basically from West
Street?
     A.   At the time, I didn't know that.  I found all
that out later, which tower --
     Q.   Okay?
     A.   -- which tower we were in and whatever.
     Q.   All right.  So that was where you saw the
commissioner, McGovern --
     A.   Yes.
C. GAFFNEY
Q.   -- in that lobby?
11
     A.   There was a bunch -- there was a command post
set up in that lobby, but when I had come back down,
they weren't in that lobby any more.  That lobby was
pretty much destroyed, and there was nobody in there.
     Q.   Okay.  So you hooked up with 9 truck.  I
mean, you weren't ordered to, but you hooked -- do you
know which staircase it was, A, B, whatever, something
like that?
     A.   I'm pretty sure it was B.  I'm not positive,
but I'm pretty sure it was B.  I know I came down the
B, so I'm pretty sure it was the B I went up, because I
used that as a reference for getting out.  I knew I
came up that way, so I knew my way down with that
staircase.
Q. Okay.
     A.   I remember being on about the 13th Floor and
opening the door.  I heard a door being forced from the
outside of the stairway.  A company was trying to get
in, so I went and opened the door for them, and that
was the A stairway, I believe, but I can't tell you
what company it was.  I don't remember.
          It was -- we were kind of like in a hurry.  I
just popped the door, let those guys in, and continued
C. GAFFNEY
12
searching the floor.
     Q.   Okay.  And the stairway that you saw 65, that
was B?
A. Yes.
     Q.   And Faust and McGovern, you figure were B,
the B staircase?
     A.   Yes, it was the staircase I was in.  That was
B.  I saw McGovern on there.  I saw Faust.  He was
standing on the 10th Floor.  I don't know -- he was
standing in the doorway.
Q. Okay.
     A.   He was, like, telling people, okay -- no, he
was, like, reassuring civilians, I guess, on their way
out, and then when I was on my way down, it was only
firemen, so I said to him, "Come on, Faust, get out.
They are ordering us out.  Get out."  He said, "I'm
going to wait for the chief."
     Q.   Okay.  You came out the same way?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   And --
     A.   As I came out of the stairs --
     Q.   -- you were running?
     A.   I remember making a right, climbing over a
pile of crap, and there was glass, thick glass,
C. GAFFNEY
13
everywhere.  It was like running on ice, you know,
glass on top of glass sliding around.
          I remember an ironworker being in the lobby,
and I ran into the ironworker later.  I wound up
knowing him, but I didn't realize who he was at the
time.
     Q.   Okay.  If you saw Otto, who was with 24 --
did you see any other rigs in the street at any time,
whether they were crushed or the way in?
     A.   On the way in, I saw Squad 18's rig was right
in front, I think.
     Q.   In front of the tower or in front of the
hotel?
     A.   In front of the tower.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   In front of Tower 1.  I think Lieutenant
Giammona grabbed a mask out of there.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   We went to 24 first on the way in, and there
were no masks left or anything.
     Q.   Where was he parked?
     A.   He was on the corner -- he was on West Street
facing south right off Vesey, and then it's the same
place he was parked for the first trade center.  That
C. GAFFNEY
14
sticks in my mind.
          I was at that one, too, in '93, and Otto was
driving also, and he parked in the same spot for both
incidents.
     Q.   Okay.  Now, when you were running out and
everything, you didn't happen to notice any of the
other front pieces, who they were?
     A.   What do you mean?  The guys I was running
with?
     Q.   Yes, or when you came back, did you see any
other apparatus crushed or 6 --
     A.   I remember the civilians in the street, like
they were in the lobby, like, pooling in the lobby
instead of going out of the building.
          I guess they were having a hard time getting
over the debris and stuff, but coming down the stairs,
there were no civilians in the stairway.
Q. Okay.
     A.   As I came out, Otto was standing in the
middle of West Street at Vesey by the island.  He was
covered in white.  He said he had -- he dove behind a
wall or something and just got covered with the cloud.
He was in shock.
     Q.   Okay.  If you have nothing else, this
15
remember.  I mean, I remember seeing people in the
street not that were in the building.  I remember
seeing companies, like, standing watching.
Q. Well, can you remember who they were?
A. Isaw--
Q. And where they were?
A. I saw one of the guys from 55 engine on the
opposite side of West Street at Vesey standing -- 33
engine was on that corner on Vesey facing east, I guess
on the west side of West Street.
     Q.   And this is after the collapses or before?
     A.   This was after the first one, which I didn't
even realize was a collapse until I got down to the
street, but before the second.
     Q.   Okay, so they were on Vesey and West?
     A.   Right.  They were on Vesey actually facing
east.
     Q.   Anybody else?
     A.   I remember running into guys from 8 truck who
were coming from company medical.  They were -- they
sent them back from the medical office.
     Q.   You don't know where you met them?
C. GAFFNEY
concludes the interview.  Thank you very much.
     A.   Thank you.  I mean, that's all I can
C. GAFFNEY
16
     A.   I met them by the water.  I met them by the
water.  I met -- there were also two guys from 55
engine.  I don't think they were working.  Paddy
Schuppel and Pete Metzger.  I don't know if they were
working or not, but I met them by the water.  I don't
think they were working.  They must have come later.
They were clean.
     Q.   Okay.  If there is nothing else, we can
conclude the interview.
     A.   I think that's about all I can remember right
now.
     Q.   You can keep going as long as you want.
     A.   No, that's all I can remember really.
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  Okay, thank you very
     much.
File No. 9110311
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        DEPUTY CHIEF HOWARD HILL
   Interview Date:  December 10, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
H. HILL
2
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Today is December
     10, 2001.  The time is approximately 1540.  My
     name is Battalion Chief Art Lakiotes, New York
     City Fire Department, safety and command.
     Q.   I'm here conducting an interview with --
     A.   Deputy Chief HOWARD HILL.
     Q.   Regarding events of September 11, 2001.
Chief Hill, if you would in your own words, tell us how
you became aware of the events unfolding that day and
what transpired as far as what you were concerned and
what you did.
     A.   All right.  I was home, I was jogging along
the Belt Parkway. I noticed the twin towers on fire.  I
got in my car, I went home, and I called up
operations.  I asked them where they wanted me to
report in.  I was told report into the First Division.
I showed up at the First Division between 10 o'clock,
10:30.  I relieved the Battalion Chief who was on
duty.  I was then told by operations to formulate
teams, get teams ready to respond in some kind of
orderly manner.  They were having some problems with
that.
          I had a fair number of people on recall.  I
had them do like sort of command post procedures to
H. HILL
3
organize the members of the teams with officers and
make up arrival lists.  We followed some of the
procedures of the command post.  I designated some
people as administrative.  As that was being prepared,
there was some problems, to put it mildly, regarding
keeping people at the fire house and in the Division.
          I did a survey of the Division to see what
companies were in service, what relocators we had.  No
units were back in at all throughout the day.  They
told me at approximately 3:00 I was going to take all
members over to the site and operate.  At 3:00 then I
got a phone call informing me to stay.  They were
worried about a second attack or some other things that
might happen.  I again tried to keep members.
          There was some problems at that point to keep
members at the fire house.  It was extremely difficult
to just to keep people standing by and maintain
discipline.  Discipline was a significant problem.
There was something screaming and shouting.  I made
several efforts to keep people focused, to keep them
ready.  I was less than 100 percent successful but I
did manage to keep some teams in the fire house and I
went around to different firehouses that I could hit in
the Division to try to insure -- and via the phone as
well.
H. HILL
4
          That went on continuously up until about 3:00
in the morning.  At that time I was told to relieve
Chief Kilker over at One Police Plaza at their command
center.  I was in Police Plaza, answering phones and
manning that station until approximately 4 the next
afternoon on Wednesday.  I then went home and I
reported in to work on Thursday morning.
          On Thursday morning, they told me once again
you will be manning the Division.  We manned the
division once again trying to get some -- the status of
the units, finding out what resources we had in the
Division and keeping guys ready to respond to fires and
fire duty as necessary in the Division.
          Then at approximately 18 hundred hours I was
told to report to the site.  Now, this is Thursday
evening.  I went to the site, I reported in to the
Liberty command site.  I climbed up on a piece of
jutting steel.  I relieved -- I don't remember who I
relieved.  The Deputy said this is your post.  There
was, I would say, around 300 people in view and it was
fairly disorganized.  There was lots of vollies, being
aware of what all our members were going through as far
as wanting to go down and not having work to do or
H. HILL
5
being kept from the site, I had people coming in,
reporting in, our people.  My priority was to get
volunteers out, and anyone who should not be there and
to keep our people in.
          I tried to set that up.  I tried to get
police assistance in setting up perimeters and that was
less than successful.  People would say yes we will
take care of it and the police would walk away and then
I wouldn't see them.
          I did get some control of the firefighters.
I had them set up control points.  There were three or
four access points into that Liberty command area.  I
was able, after a while, to patrol and then pull the
vollies out of there when I saw them, and I had Fire
Department members, FDNY members, staged.  I would pull
them in.  There was a bucket brigade at the time.  They
were using the dogs.  We had the USAR teams.  We
continued with this throughout that night.  I was
leaving about 9 o'clock in the morning.  It was just a
continuous.  I don't even know what time I got there
the next day.  I don't.
          But there was a continuous flood of people in
and out of the area.  I had some Battalion Chiefs, we
had some sector control, and I believe at about 4:00
H. HILL
6
o'clock in the morning it started raining heavy that
night.  Thursday night.  I have to look at that.  Maybe
that was the next shift I was in.  I forget when the
rain came down.  But when the rain came down that was
the first time that I believe the whole site took a
collective breath.
          It was glass scaling off the wall of
buildings.  It was cracking around and it was pretty
heavy glass, rain was heavy and the effect of all these
people out there at that point was (inaudible) that we
were trying to accomplish.  We pulled people back and
we actually got everybody off the pile.  That was just
in my sector.  But my sector was one of the earlier
ones.  And that spread around the other sectors as
well.  I think collectively, my only problem with this
is that I don't remember if it was Thursday night or
Friday.  Excuse me.  I was off Friday, on Saturday.  I
had to look at the weather because it is a bit of a
blur at this time.
          But I do remember that was the first time I
know that everybody just stopped for a moment and we
were able to get a little better order when we were
coming back in, although it was a big problem, they
could not get any kind of security with police, in
H. HILL
7
controlling any of the perimeters in the area.  There
was a lack of police supervisors around.  I did speak
to some of them.  One was the head of ESU.  I forget
his name.  He was an inspector.  He was standing there
with me at the -- the command post was a very makeshift
thing.  Like I said it was a piece of steel jutting
out.  The only reason I was standing on that, that gave
me the overview of the site.  It was the only area with
good height that you could see out.
          Most of the efforts were coordinated fairly
well with the USAR teams.  They had their team people
ready and when I needed them, they did respond.  I do
give them credit.  They controlled their people very
well.  They staged them.  I was getting good feedback
from the rescue people out there, as far as what was
-- the area they were concentrating on, and why they
were concentrating on it.  The Battalion Chiefs were
out there.  The Battalion Chiefs were superb.
          I think the main reason why we didn't have
any serious injuries was that the Chief officers at the
site did a spectacular job of controlling and looking
over the best they could under the circumstances to
insure that people weren't getting hurt or doing things
that they should not be doing.  That didn't happen all
H. HILL
8
the time, but the Chief officers made an extreme effort
to control people out there and I think in my mind,
anyhow, that's going largely unrecognized.
          I think the main reason that we didn't have
significant major loss of life there was because the
Chief officers of the FDNY did their very best under
the circumstances.  It was effective in preventing a
lot of injuries at that site and stopping people from
doing what they should not be doing.  And trying to
control as much as possible the people from outside the
Department and the -- of course well intentioned, but
emotionally involved people from our Department from
being -- putting themselves in more harms way than was
appropriate.
          I believe that that is what worked in my
sectors from what I saw.  The Chief officers were
diligent.  They worked very very hard and got some
control that way.  Because you couldn't go out there
yourself all the time.  You could just go to some spots
where there is problems to look over.  You could do a
survey, but you had to have Chief officers out there,
and that's what made my zone work.
Alotofitwasablur. Therewasalotof input from different agencies so we had to -- a lot of
H. HILL
9
decisions being made.  I wish I could recall half the
things I said.  It was non-stop talking, non-stop
giving orders.  It was a flood of people coming to you
for directions and a myriad of things that are just a
blur to me.  Everything from labor disputes with steel
workers to just trying to get guys.  It was a
nightmare.
          It was an intense, unending.  That was the
thing about it.  It just didn't stop.  You got out
there, you did not shut up.  You talked, you gave
orders, you directed, you tried to control.  Non-stop.
You didn't have ten minutes to yourself.  But all in
all, from what I saw, I thought we were as effective as
 -- I couldn't imagine anybody being more effective.
There was a fair amount of chaos.  I know that's a
focal point, but I sincerely believe that there was a
lot more control than people are acknowledging.
          I think the officers, particularly the Chief
officers, did a splendid job.  Once again, I know I'm
repeating myself, but I think they forget this and I
think the proof of that is in the major injuries, of
how there wasn't any.  There was no fatalities and
there was certainly a tremendous amount of potential
for that and that was only due in my mind and I'm clear
H. HILL
10
on this, is that we did have that kind of control and I
think that's being ignored.
          I think that we did have some control, of
course, with the mass of people that we had there.
When I say 300, of course, I never had a count.  It was
a guesstimate.  There could have been between 3 and 500
people and that was just in my sector, which ran two
blocks long and as far deep into the pile as you could
go, which is probably about, I don't know, maybe 6, 800
yards.
     Q.   How did you get to the First Division?  Was
that before or after the collapses?
     A.   I drove in, from home.
     Q.   You had no problem --
     A.   I couldn't believe how fast I got into the
Division.  I saw them collapse.  I said woah.  That's
when I jumped in the car and I had just pulled myself
away from it.  Went home, changed and got in the car.
I was in the city, I would say it took me about 20
minutes.
Q. What was your route?
A. I took the BQE from the 14 Avenue exit. Q. The Belt Parkway?
A. WhatIdidArty,wasIcameinoffof86
H. HILL
11
Street entrance to the BQE and lots of congestion in
the streets, but everything was soon to be closed.  But
once I got on that BQE, it was closed.  The police were
out there.  It amazed me.  I went over the Brooklyn
Bridge.
     Q.   You I.D.'d them?
     A.   Yes, I had to I.D.  It was shut down except
for us.  When I came over the Brooklyn Bridge that was
clear.  I shot right into the First Division and that
was extremely difficult to control.  That was just
-- some officers were outstanding.  Some officers
understood what they to do and tried to control their
people.  Other officers were overwhelmed by trying to
control their members and were unable to, as a matter
of fact.  A fair amount of members went down there on
their own without authorization.
          Plus trying to find out accurate information
of what companies were relocated, what resources we
had, was an all day affair and into the night.  It
never stopped, trying to get accountability of who we
had and how effective we were going to be if anything
else would have happened.  That was a long long day.
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Thank you Chief
     Hill.  That concludes the interview.  It's
                H. HILL
approximately 1550.
12

FILE NO 9110312
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
CAPTAIN PAUL MALLERY INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 12 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

BATTALION CHIEF DECEMBER 12 2001
KEMLY THE TIME BATTALION
TODAYS DATE IS IS 1230 IN THE
MALLERY
AFTERNOON THIS IS
OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL CAPTAIN PAUL MALLERY OF LADDER 10 OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK THE INTERVIEW IS TAKING PLACE AT THE QUARTERS OF
10 AND LADDER 10 IN THE TRUCK OFFICE
ENGINE
REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001
CAPTAIN MALLERY COULD YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHAT HAPPENED ON SEPTEMBER 11
JUST FINISHED WORKING 24 HOUR SHIFT MONDAY MORNING AND MONDAY NIGHT SO IT WAS ABOUT 830
835 WAS DOWN IN THE APPARATUS FLOOR AND SAW LIEUTENANT STEVE HARRELL COMING IN AND HE SAID IM JUST
GOING TO GET PACK OF CIGARETTES SAID WELL IM GOING TO GO IN THE SHOWER BECAUSE HAVE TO GO TO DO
ALAN HEVESI FOR THE UNION IT WAS PRIMARY DAY HE SAID ALL RIGHT GOT IT THAT WAS THE LAST SAW OF HIM
IMIN THSHANDAT TH SAME TIME THERE WAS MURRAY FROM BITS DOING
STIPULATION THING WITH FIREMAN BACHMANN BECAUSE OF
UPSTAIRS
CHIEF RONALD KEMLY

MALLERY
ANOTHER SITUATION SO THEY WERE IN THE OFFICE SAID IF YOU DONT MIND WILL TAKE SHOWER AND WONT
BOTHER YOUSE THEY WERE IN THE OFFICE AND WAS IN THE
SHOWER WE HEARD THE SOUND OF THE FIRST TOWER ONE
PLANE STRIKING
COME OUT OF THE SHOWER ALL OF US ARE STANDING THERE LOOKING OUT THE WINDOW AND YOU CANT SEE TOWER ONE BECAUSE ITS BLOCKED BY TOWER TWO BUT WE
DID SEE PAPERS STARTING TO FLUTTERING DOWN FROM THE
SKY WE SAID UH OH THIS CANT BE GOOD
SO THE TWO OF THEM BAILED OUT RAN OUT THE DOOR AND SAID WELL BETTER PUT SOME CLOTHES ON TURNED ON THE TV WHICH WASNT ON AND SAW THE SHOT THE NEWS HAD FROM LIKE THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING
LOOKING SOUTH YOU COULD SEE THE BUILDING ON FIRE THE PLANE HAD HIT IT IT WAS REMARKABLY CLEAR DAY WE WERE SAYING WHAT WAS IT SOME GUY BEING WISE GUY LITTLE CESSNA BEING CUTEY CUTEY TRYING TO THREAD THE NEEDLE BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDINGS AND HE MISSED OR WHATEVER WE DIDNT KNOW
SO PUT ON THE SAME CLOTHES HAD ON THE
SH SL DUTY SHIRT DUTY PANTS AND GO DOWNSTAIRS AND THE APPARATUS DOORS WERE
UP THATS WHY THE DOORS ARE STILL INTACT TODAY
NIGHT

MALLERY
BECAUSE THEY ROLLED OUT THE DOOR ON VERBAL AND LEFT THE DOORS UP CIVILIANS ARE COMING IN BURNS BROKEN
BONES CUTS AND BRUISES THE NEXT THOUGHT WAS OH SHIT THIS CANT BE GOOD
IM BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN THE HOUSE WATCH THE KITCHEN THE APPARATUS FLOOR AND HEAR LIEUTENANT GREGG ATLAS OF ENGINE 10 OVER THE RADIO THAT IS IN THE CONSOLE IN THE HOUSE WATCH HE SAID GIVE ME 1060 AND GIVE ME EVERY AMBULANCE YOUVE GOT THOSE ARE HIS
EXACT WORDS
THAT WAS THE LAST HEARD FROM GREQQ ATLAS
THOUGHT TO MYSELF 1060 THATS PRETTY GOOD CALL WOULD HAVE SAID SECOND ALARM BUT HE WENT 1060 NOW
THERE IS PEOPLE COMING AND GOING PEOPLE CIVILIANS COMING OFF THE STREET PEOPLE WHO WERE SUPPOSED TO GO TO WORK WERE LATE THEY WERE IN AND THEN PEOPLE WERE LIKE WHAT CAN DO WHAT CAN DO
ONE FELLOW THINK HIS NAME IS ROB WEISBERG HE IS PARAMEDIC OUT IN COMMACK OR MERRICK OR ONE OF THOSE LONG ISLAND PLACES HE GOES IM MEDIC AND
SAID HOO YOU ARE MY MAN SHOWED HIM THE LOCKER WITH TH BLU GL AND TH FIRST AID SUPPLI AND SAYS ALL RIGHT GOT IT HE STARTED TAKING CARE OF
PEOPLE HE HAD CHAIRS WE GOT BLANKETS AND PILLOWS AND

MALLERY
WE WERE PREPARED FOR ALL KINDS OF STUFF
HE HAD THE LESS INJURED GO TO THE KITCHEN
ONE WOMAN REMEMBER SHE WAS JUST TAKING LITTLE
TOWEL WIPING THE BLOOD OFF LITTLE CUT ON HER ELBOW BUT THEY WERE FINE THEN GET ON THE PHONE CALL THE
AND TOLD HIM IT ATTACK IT WAS JUST STUPID
WASNT TERRORIST
PLANE CRASH
SAID GIVE ME AN
DISPATCHER
HE WENT YES RIGHT
AMBULANCE SAID HAVE THE AMBULANCE COME UP TRINITY
AND COME IN FROM LIBERTY FROM TRINITY SO LATER ON WE DID IN FACT QET THE AMBULANCE HERE AND THE KID BACKS UP ON THE APRON AND SAID BACK IT IN ALL THE WAY TO HELL IN BECAUSE THE ENGINE WASNT HERE WHAT THE HECK AND HE DID HE BACKED THE AMBULANCE INTO QUARTERS IN THE BAY WHERE THE ENGINE WOULD GO
NOW THE PARAMEDIC GUY EMT GUY ROB THERE HAS ASSISTANCE TWO EMTS LATER ON THERE WAS AN ARTICLE IN THE NEWSDAY ABOUT THE OF THEM THE TWO EMTS AND THE GUY WHATEVER WHAT WAS HIS NAME JILL MOORE DID THE ARTICLE
BACK AND FORTH AND THEN IN THE HOUSE WATCH AB THIS GU TH PLAN
HIT THE SECOND BUILDING PEOPLE ARE STANDING OUT FRONT AND SAID GET IN GET IN LO AND BEHOLD SOMEWHERE
PAPER

MALLERY
ALONG THE WAY SEAN OMALLEY LIEUTENANT ENGINE 10 HE COMES IN BY BICYCLE THEN SAY OH GOOD THIS IS GOOD
GOT HELP THEN THEN KERRY HORGAN ONE OF MY FIREFIGHTERS HE COMES IN AND GUYS ARE GETTING SUITED UP AND THEY ARE ASKING ME FOR HOSE NOZZLES FITTINGS AND THEY ARE GOING DOWN THE BLOCK TO THE PARKING LOT AND THEY ARE PUTTING OUT CAR FIRES
THEN THE SECOND PLANE HITS AND THEN AM
LOOKING DOWN ON THE APRON IM LOOKING DOWN IM GOING THESE GUYS GOT TO GET OUT OF THERE THE GUY TAPS HIM
ON THE SHOULDER HE SAYS NO WE ARE ALREADY HERE WE ARE BACK SO GOOD WITH CADETS THERE WERE FIREMEN
FROM BROOKLYN LIKE SAID HORGAN OMALLEY AND JOE TURILLO COMES IN
WHEN THE SECOND PLANE HITS JOE TURILLO PUTS ON GREGG ATLAS SECOND SET OF GEAR AND HE GOES OFF
SAID JOE WHERE THE FUCK YOU GOING WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO BRING ANOTHER CAN MEAN IT VIOLATES ALL THE RULES ABOUT TWO IN TWO OUT AND ALL THE OTHER STUFF
YOU GOT NO RADIO NO MASK WHERE ARE YOU GOING
JOE GOES OFF FIND OUT THREE DAYS LATER HE NDUPBUMPTH INTH IN
BUT THERE WERE GUYS WHO WERE TAKING GEAR WHO DID NOT RETURN THERE WERE GUYS WHO DID RETURN SO IT WAS

MALLERY
MATTER OF SIX OF ONE HALF DOZEN OF THE OTHER
DID GET HEAR RECALL ON THE RADIO AND
ONE OF THE GIRLS SAYS WHAT CAN DO SAID COME WITH ME TOOK HER INTO THE ENGINE OFFICE PULLED THE
SHEET OUT FROM UNDER THE GLASS CROSSED OFF THE NAMES OF THE GUYS KNEW WERE WORKING AND SAID DONT CALL THESE NUMBERS YOU WILL WASTE YOUR TIME START CALLING THESE NUMBERS AND TELL THEM ITS RECALL HAD HER ON THE FAX PHONE IN THE ENGINE OFFICE THEN ANOTHER
LIEUTENANT IN WHITE SHIRT AND TIE FROM
GUY
HEADQUARTERS HE SAYS WHAT CAN DO
ME TAKE OFF TO THE TRUCK OFFICE DO THE TRUCK RECALL PHONE CALLS
SAID COME WITH LIKEWISE HAD TO
THINGS WERE GOING PRETTY GOOD HAD THE RECALL UNDER CONTROL HAD THE MEDICAL SITUATION
UNDER CONTROL HAD LOT OF PEOPLE IN QUARTERS AND WE WERE DOING ALL RIGHT THEN HAPPENED TO BE ON THE
SECOND FLOOR WHEN THE KELTY BROTHERS CAME IN JIM THE SUPERVISING MARSHAL AND GENE THE CAPTAIN OF ENGINE
10 THEY WERE IN THEIR GOLF SHORTS THEY HAD BEEN OUT ON THE GOLF COURSE AND THEY CAME IN THEY ARE GOING TO CHANG INT KIND FIR DUTY CKTH AND WHILI
THEY ARE CHANGING IN THE LOCKER ROOM IN THE SECOND FLOOR THE ENGINE SIDE LOCKERS IM TELLING THEM

MALLERY
WHATS GOING ON BRIEFING THEM
SAID IT SOUNDS JUST LIKE THIS THIS IS
EXACTLY WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE HERES ANOTHER ONE THINKING IT WAS THIRD PLANE MEANWHILE THE SOUND TO
ME WAS FOUR DISTINCT EVENTS THEY ALL SOUNDED THE
SAME THE TWO PLANE CRASHES AND THE TWO COLLAPSES
EXCEPT THE COLLAPSES LASTED LONGER
DONT KNOW IF THATS THE PHYSICS OF IT
WHERE THE PLANE IS GOING AND HOW FAST AND IT GOES TO
ZERO AND THE BUILDING IS AT ZERO AND IT GOES TO BEING HOW FAST BY THE TIME IT COMES DOWN YOU KNOW 32 FEET
PER SECOND SQUARED AND ALL THAT AS THE THIRD SOUND TAKES PLACE ITS IN FACT THE COLLAPSE OF TOWER TWO
BUT DIDNT KNOW THAT AT THE TIME THE DUST COMES
ROLLING DOWN THE HALLWAY UP THE STAIRS THROUGH THE BUNK ROOMS AND REALIZED THE WINDOWS ARE GONE
KNEW MY WAY AROUND QUARTERS
COULD FEEL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE MORTAR LINES OF THE CEMENT BLOCK INDOORS AND THE BRICK MORTAR LINES OUTDOORS SO KNEW WAS OUTDOORS KNEW WHERE WAS
THERE IS SOME GUY SCREAMING AT ME GET ME OUT OF HERE GET ME OUT OF HERE IN THE DUST THE TOTAL

MALLERY
BLACKNESS TAPPED HIM ON THE SHOULDERS SAID YOU ARE OUTSIDE PAL HE SAID WELL LETS GO INSIDE HE
WANTED TO RUN DOWN THE CELLAR SAID NO NO DONT GO TO THE CELLAR THINKING THERE IS GOING TO BE LACK OF
DONT KNOW IF THIS IS NUCLEAR ATTACK DONT KNOW WHAT THIS IS ANY MORE
BUT IT WAS BLACK LIKE THE WORST OIL BURNER FIRE THAT YOU DIDNT PUT YOUR MASK ON DOWN THE OIL
BURNER BUT YOU COULD BREATHE IT BECAUSE THE OIL BURNER HAS GOT THE CARBON MONOXIDE THIS WAS NO CARBON
MONOXIDE COULD TELL COULD BREATHE IT AND SPIT IT OUT
SO BACK INTO QUARTERS DO PRIMARY SECONDARY WHATEVER THE KITCHEN THE BATHROOM EVERY PLACE
LOOKED THE TV ROOM WORKED MY WAY BACK TO THE FRONT OF
QUARTERS NOBODY IS AROUND THEY ARE ALL GONE WHICH IS GOOD GET BACK TO THE HOUSE WATCH IT IS PACKED
TO THE GILLS WITH SHIT THAT CAME THROUGH WINDOWS
CHECK THE ENGINE OFFICE WHERE THE GIRL WAS MAKING THE CALLS ON THE FAX MACHINE SHE IS GONE AND SEE NO BLOOD OR ANYTHING ON THE FLOOR SO FIGURE OKAY THATS
THEN WALK UP TO THE FRONT WHERE THE TRUCK WOULD NORMALLY BE AND SEE THIS PILE OF DEBRIS
OXYGEN

BEHOLD ITS THE LIEUTENANT CALLS IN THE TRUCK OFFICE
THAT HAD
FINISHED
MAKING THE PHONE
THE PHONE ACR TH
CALLS PUT
STREET TO GET BLOWN AROUND LIKE
MALLERY
IMMEDIATELY ON THE APRON CLIMB UP ON TOP OF THE
PILE TO BE IN SPOT THAT WOULD BE WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE
DOUBLE PARKED CAR OUT IN THE STREET LOOK UP AND ITS STILL THIS BROWN BLACK TURNING TO BROWN TURNING TO BEIGE AM LOOKING AROUND AND ITS TOTAL SILENCE THE ARTICLE IN THE TIMES THE GUY QUOTED ME SAYING IT WAS LIKE SILENCE LIKE YOU NEVER HEARD BEFORE NOT IN MANHATTAN YOU ALWAYS HEAR SOMETHING IN MANHATTAN TRAIN RUMBLE OR SOMETHING THIS WAS NOTHING
SAID WELL THIS IS LIKE THE END OF THE WORLD LOOKED UP AND DID SEE LITTLE PATCH OF BLUE
POKE THROUGH THE SKY THROUGH THE DUST SAID OKAY WE ARE STILL HERE THE SKY IS STILL BLUE THEN HEAR
HELP HELP LO AND BEHOLD ITS IN THE COFFEE SHOP OF THE BANKERS TRUST MAKE MY WAY OVER THERE UP AND OVER ALL THIS DEBRIS AND IT WAS THE LIGHTER DEBRIS OF THE TRADE CENTER THE ALUMINUM FACIA AND LOT OF PAPERWORK AND LOT OF STUFF
GET INTO THE BANKERS TRUST AND LO AND
RAG DOLL HE HAD BROKEN SHOULDER AND BROKEN FEMUR
HE AND
10

MALLERY
SO GO BACK TO GET HELP COME AND GET SEAN OMALLEY AND KERRY HORGAN THEY GET OVER THERE AND THEY ARE GOING TO START TO CFR THIS GUY GET HIM
READY AND SEAN GOES THIS GUY NEEDS OXYGEN SO SAID WILL GET OXYGEN GO BACK TO THE AMBULANCE THAT WE HAD HERE WHICH WAS GOOD THING OTHERWISE WE HAD NO OXYGEN IN QUARTERS GET THE KID WITH THE AMBULANCE TO GO OVER THERE WITH THE OXYGEN
THEY GOT BACKBOARD THEY ARE GOING TO DO
TRACTION SPLINT THEY GOT OXYGEN WE GOT HELP WE GOT BUNCH OF QUYS THESE CADETS WE HAD FEW QUYS
MIKE FRUSCIS SON REMEMBER HIM NOW TOO WE ARE
HOOKING HIM UP GETTING READY TO GO THERE IS COP THERE IS CAPTAIN KELTY NOW WE ARE GOING TO PACKAGE HIM UP AND PICK HIM UP OVER THE KNEE WALL OF THE COFFEE
SHOP WHEN TOWER ONE COLLAPSES
THAT WAS THE FOURTH EVENT IN THE SOUND
DEPARTMENT THE SOUND WAS THE SAME THING AGAIN SOUNDED LIKE PLANE TO ME SOUNDED LIKE ANOTHER
PLANE BUT IT WAS THE COLLAPSE OF THE TOWER ONE WHICH GEOGRAPHICALLY IS FURTHER AWAY FROM US SO WE SAID
RUN ANYWH TH WAS
DEBRIS ALL OVER THE STREET SO WE JUST HUNKERED DOWN AND WE WAITED WE LIVED THROUGH THE SECOND DUST STORM
11

MALLERY
AND DID LITTLE MINOR ROLL CALL YOU ALL RIGHT
YOU ALL RIGHT YES YES YES OKAY WE WAITED ABOUT
DONT KNOW FIVE TEN MINUTES TILL WE COULD SEE BETTER
WE GOT THIS LIEUTENANT UP OVER THE WALL AND THEY CARRIED HIM DOWN GREENWICH TO RECTOR MADE LEFT ON RECTOR AND THEY GOT AN AMBULANCE AT RECTOR AND TRINITY PLACE AND OFF HE WENT
THEN THE GUYS CAME BACK NOW LIEUTENANT JIM
CSORNY SHOWS UP HE SAID COME ON LETS GO GET OUR QUYS THEN TAKE OFF MY HOUSE WATCH SHOES PUT ON MY
BUNKER GEAR COAT HELMET GRAB TOOL WE GO ACROSS THE STREET THROUGH THE CEDAR WAY WHICH IS THE MIDDLE
OF BANKERS TRUST SEE GUY NAMED PAUL AT BANKERS TRUST BUILDING ENGINEER GUY HOW YOU DOING
HE SAID WE EVACUATED ON THE FIRST
CRASH HE SAID ALL GOT IS FIVE ESSENTIAL PERSONNEL THEY ARE ON THE 7TH FLOOR BY THE MACHINERY HE HAD
HANDY TALKY OF HIS OWN WITH HIM SAID COULD YOU GET THEM ON THE RADIO HE SAID YES SAID YOU ARE OKAY WE ARE OUT OF HERE
THR WAY
UT WASHINGTON RIGHT BY THE AMISH MARKET THERE WE SEE HEAVY DUTY RED STEEL THIS IS THE TRADE CENTER WE
12
PLANE

MALLERY
SAID HOLY SHIT THIS IS WE ONIY SAW THE LIGHT STUFF ON GREENWICH WASHINGTON HAD THE HEAVY STUFF WE WERE LIKE THIS IS IT THE FUCKING THING CAME DOWN ITS
NOT JUST THE PLANE THE WHOLE BUILDING CAME DOWN
WE GO ACROSS WHERE THE CHURCH USED TO BE IN
THE PARKING LOT FIGURING THAT WOULD BE EASIER DID THE SURFACE THING AS WE WENT OVER THE PILE NOTHING
NOBODY MAKE OUR WAY TO WEST AND LIBERTY AND ITS CHARLIE BLAICH IN COMMAND WITH SOME COP GUY ON TOP OF
SOME UNIT AND THEY ARE STARTING TO GET THIS THING QOINQ WHICH TURNED TURNS OUT TO BE WHAT HAPPENS WITH
THESE CHAIN GANG LINES WITH BUCKET BRIGADES AND HANDING STUFF ONE OVER ONE THEY WERE WORKING ON GETTING WHO OUT OF THE WHERE AND OVER THERE
WE DID THAT FOR WHILE THEN THEY WANTED WATER ALL THE PUMPERS THAT WERE THERE WERE SHOT
FIGURED WATER HUDSON RIVER SO START MAKING MY WAY TO THE HUDSON WE ALREADY HAD THE TENDER SMOKE TWO
WAS INSIDE THE MARINA HOOKED UP TO PUMP HE WAS
PUMPING SEE RAY BRESSINGHAM SAID THERE IS
FIRE BOAT OUT IN THE RIVER SAID RAY GET ON THE HORN
AND THAT WAT IS TRYING TO GET THE GUY ON THE RADIO THE GUY IS NOT RESPONDING
13

MALLERY
WE ENDED UP WALKING DOWN TO THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE SOUTH COVE AND THE BOAT WAS COMING UP ANYWAY
ITS THE HARVEY FIRE BOAT HARVEY THEN COULD SEE UP AND DOWN THE RIVER MARINE NINE WAS IN MARINE ONE WAS DOWN BY ALBANY AND GET THIS GUY AND THEY ARE ALL
CIVILIAN CLOTHES AND IT DOESNT DAWN ON ME FOUND OUT COUPLE OF DAYS LATER THIS IS NOT FIRE
BOAT IT WAS SCRAPPED BY THE CITY AND ITS MUSEUM BUFF BOAT SO THINK CAN YOU GET WATER OUT OF THAT
THING THE GUY GOES GOT NO HOSE GOT NO FUEL
SAID WHAT THE HELL KIND OF FIRE BOAT IS THAT NO HOSE
NO FUEL SAID ALL RIGHT WILL GET YOU THE HOSE WE WILL SEE ABOUT THE FUEL
GO BACK EAST AGAIN ONCE AGAIN BUMP INTO LIEUTENANT SEAN OMALLEY SEAN WE NEED HOSE TO THE
BOAT HE MUSTERS UP SOME GUYS THEY START STRETCHING FROM SOME PUMPER SOMEWHERE BACK WEST BACK TO THE
BOAT SEE PORT AUTHORITY GUY SAID COULD YOU GET FUEL INTO THAT BOAT HE SAID ALL RIGHT LET ME
SEE HE GETS ON HIS RADIO
LONG STORY SHORT HE GOT THE CIRCLE LINE
AND FU UP TH OMALLIY TH
HOSE THE GUY DOWN BELOW MADE WATER AND WE HAD WATER ONLY THING IS THE BOAT DOES VOLUME IT DOESNT DO
WEARING
14

MALLERY
PRESSURE WHAT YOU NEED IS TO PUT PUMPERS ALONG THE WAY TO BOOST IT UP WHICH DIDNT HAPPEN FOR ANOTHER DAY
OR TWO BUT WE GOT WATER OUT OF THE HORNSWOGGLED BOAT THAT WAS GOOD
GET BACK OVER TO WEST AND LIBERTY AND WE SEE
WHATS GOING ON HOOK UP WITH COUPLE OF MY GUYS WHO ARE NOW COMING IN ON THE RECALL CAPTAIN OF 20
TRUCK AND THE GIRL ADRIAN WALSH HE LOOKS AT ME AND LOOK AT HIM AND HE SAID WELL YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE CAN
WE DO SAID LETS TRY THE NUMBER TRAIN HE SAID LETS DO IT WE BREAK OFF WE WALK DOWN TO GREENWICH AND RECTOR GO DOWN THE STAIRS DUST ON THE PLATFORM BUT NO FOOT PRINTS
WE HOPPED THE TURNSTILE LIKE LITTLE HOOLIGANS
FROM THE TOUGH NEIGHBORHOOD WE JUMPED OUT ON TO THE TRACK ONE OF THE GUYS WAS LIKE WELL WHAT ABOUT THE
TRAIN SAID THERE AINT NO TRAIN COMING HERE YOU KNOW WE LEAVE GUY IN CASE THERE IS TRAIN AND WE
WALK NORTH UP THE NORTHBOUND NUMBER TRAIN TRACK WE GET TO WHERE THERE IS AN EMERGENCY EXIT WHICH HAPPENED TO BE RIGHT BEHIND THE AMERICAN STOCK
TH XIT
GOT LITTLE LIGHT WE GOT LITTLE AIR AND WE WALK UP
THE TRACKS WE HEAR WATER AND AS WE ARE GOING THE
EXCHANG GUY UP
15

MALLERY
WATER IS GETTING TO BE LIKE UP TO THE RAIL LEVEL
WE SEE THE CATCH BASIN IN THE MIDDLE ITS
GOT FEW ROCKS COVERING IT WE KICK THE ROCKS AWAY WE GOT THE DRAIN GOING NICE SO THE WATER IS GOING
DOWN THEN WE KEEP WALKING NORTH WE SEE WATER BROKEN PIPE IN THE WALL SOMEWHERE WE KEEP GOING AND
THEN WE GET THE SOLID WALL OF DEBRIS CHECKED THE OTHER SIDE OF THE TRACK BOTH TRACKS TWO SOLID WALLS OF DEBRIS
GIVE IT LOOK SEE WHAT WE CAN DO YOU KNOW TUNNEL THROUQH OR SOMETHINQ THAT AINT QOINQ TO
HAPPEN NICE TRY NO CIGAR WE WALKED BACK WE GO
BACK UP THE EMERGENCY EXIT AND NOW IM STARTING TO GET THE DUST IN MY EYES THIS DUST WAS SOMEBODY SAID 30
PERCENT GROUND GLASS THERE IS COMPANY FROM DONT KNOW BROOKLYN OR STATEN ISLAND WITH HYDRANT THAT IS NORMALLY ALWAYS KNOCKED OVER BECAUSE TRUCKS MAKE THE TURN AND KNOCK IT OVER ON CARLYLE SAID GIVE IT WRENCH AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS LO AND BEHOLD IT GETS WATER NOW WE ARE WASHING THE FACE AND ALL THAT WITH THIS NICE WATER
FF WHIT HARDWAR THEY BREAK IN ENTER THE STORE AND COME BACK WITH
FLASHLIGHTS
GUYS
TOOLS AND STUFF LIKE THAT WE HEAD BACK
16

17
AND WE JUMP ON THE PILE
NEEDLESS TO SAY IT WAS LONG DAY WASHED
ABOUT TIMES WE HOOKED UP WITH BRIAN LUSTENRING
MALLERY
WE START WORKING
CALVANESE WHAT GROUP WHAT REAL GROUP WE WORKED OUR ASS OFF AND THEN WE
HAD TO TAKE BREAK WE HAD TO GET AWAY FROM THE
DUST IT WAS JUST YOU HAD TO GET UP WIND OF THE DUST WE ENDED UP GOING INTO THE RIVER WHERE YOU COULD GET AT LEAST THE WIND COMING OFF THE RIVER WAS CLEAN WIND AND NOT DUSTY WIND
SAW JOHN MORABITO WHO WAS THE TRUCK CHAUFFEUR STILL HAD HIS RADIO ON HIM THE ONLY GUY
WITH HANDIE TALKIE HE IS WALKING AROUND LIKE IN DAZE HE DONT KNOW WHY HE IS ALIVE HE HAS GOT
WHOLE STORY TO TELL BASICALLY HE SAW WHAT WAS GOING ON AT WEST STREET PEOPLE COULDNT COME OUT OF THE
BUILDING ONTO WEST HE STARTED WHAT CALLED CONGA LINE AND HAD THEM GO THROUGH THE LOBBY GO INTO THE NUMBER TRAIN AND THEN OVER TO THE TRAIN AND WALK UNDERGROUND AND COME UP AT VESEY OR COME UP UNDER AT CHAMBERS WALK THE PLATFORM OF THE TRAIN AND THE AND UP AT CHURCH AND CHAML WHICH WAS
FANTASTIC IDEA HE HAD THREE OR FOUR THOUSAND PEOPLE EVACUATE THAT WAY
TONY KONCZYNSKI BRYAN PLATT

MALLERY
ANYWAY NEEDLESS TO SAY LONG DAY LONG NIGHT IT GOT TO BE FOUR IN THE MORNING DONT
KNOW LOST TRACK OF TIME ME AND KONCZYNSKI AND
LUSTENRING WE WENT OVER TO THE ESPLANADE AND WE JUST LAID DOWN ON PARK BENCH LIKE BUNCH OF BUMS TOOK OFF THE BUNKER GEAR FEET WERE SOAKING WET SOCKS WE HAD THE SOCKS HANGING ON THE FENCE TO DRY THAT WAS GOOD FOR ABOUT 15 MINUTES THEN IT STARTED TO GET LITTLE
SO TONY KONCZYNSKI GOES OFF FINDS AN AMBULANCE AND COMES BACK WITH WHITE SHEETS WE COVER
OURSELVES WITH WHITE SHEETS BECAUSE ALSO THE DUST WAS STILL AROUND EVEN THOUGH IT WAS MINIMAL WE ARE LAYING THERE WITH WHITE SHEETS COVERING US AND PEOPLE ARE WALKING BACK AND FORTH GUESS FROM THE STATEN ISLAND FERRY WALKING UP THE ESPLANADE AND YOU HEAR THEM TALKING AND THEY SEE THE WHITE SHEETS OVER THESE THREE BODIES AND THEY FIGURE WE ARE DEAD SO THEY SHH SHH SHH SO WE WERE LAUGHING THAT WORKED LITTLE WHILE AND WE SAID ENOUGH OF THAT SHIT THEN WE GOT DRESSED AGAIN SOGGY BOOTS SOGGY SOCKS CAME BACK TO 10 AND 10 LAID IN TH DUST
SHOT
CHILLY
THE NEXT DAY WE DID THE WHOLE THING ALL OVER
18

MALLERY
AGAIN WORKING ON THE PILE IN FRONT OF QUARTERS THEN THINGS STARTED HAPPENING IN QUARTERS WE HAD EYE WASH TRIAGE FOOD STARTED SHOWING UP GLOVES AND BOOTS WE HAD RETIREES COMING IN FORMER MEMBERS AL SELLOTI
WITH HIS TRIPLE BYPASS FREDDY CAPPETTA LIEUTENANT IN BROOKLYN NOW WE WERE DOING CHARGING STATIONS FOR THE
CORDLESS SAWS ALL HANDY TALKY BATTERIES FLASHLIGHTS WE WERE DOING OUR OWN LITTLE ONE TO ONE EXCHANGE ON BATTERIES
WE HAD FOOD WE HAD
HAND LINE AND BACK FED THE QUARTERS TO FEED WATER INTO QUARTERS WE HAD FLUSHING TOILET VENTURE TO SAY WE HAD THE ONLY FLUSHING TOILET SOUTH OF CHAMBERS STREET FOR THE FIRST TWO DAYS IT WAS INCREDIBLE PEOPLE THAT WERE HERE KNOW WHAT WAS HERE AND PEOPLE THAT WERENT HERE WOULDNT BELIEVE IT ANYWAY SO WHY BOTHER TELLING THEM
THE DAY WENT ON AND THEY SAID LIBERTY PLAZA WAS FALLING YOU KNOW CHICKEN LITTLE AND HENNY PENNY
THE SKY IS FALLING TONY KONCZYNSKI SAID NO THAT BUILDING HAS BEEN LOOKING LIKE THAT FOR 20 YEARS NOW WITH TH DUST LAYING TH AND TH WAY TH SUN WAS SETTING AND EVERYTHING ELSE EVERYBODY LOOKS UP AND SEES BUILDING THAT IS TWISTING AND THEY ALL START
TONY KONCZYNSKI GOT
19

MALLERY
RUNNING AWAY PEOPLE GETTING HURT AS THEY RUN AWAY SAID STOP STOP STOP YOUR RUNNING
THEN IT GETS TO BE ABOUT 600 LOOK OUT THE TRUCK OFFICE WINDOW AND CAPTAIN KELTY IS IN THE
STREET COME ON YOU GOT TO GET OUT EVERYBODY OUT OF QUARTERS SAID YES ALL RIGHT NOW IM BY MYSELF
PACK UP WHAT WANT GET THE NAMES MATT DONACHIE WAS AT THE STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL THE NIGHT
BEFORE WORKING ON THE LIST OF THE MISSING
WE WENT THROUGH ONE BY ONE TILL WE CONFIRMED
AND DENIED WHO WAS WHO THE PHONES WERE NOT WORKINQ SO
GOOD EVERYTIME YOU TRIED TO ALL SOMEBODY TO CONFIRM THEY WERE HOME OR NOT HOME IT WAS TOUGH GOT IT DOWN TO WHAT THOUGHT WAS MY LIST OF ABOUT 11 MISSING GOT THE WIVES KIDS NAMES PHONE NUMBERS TRUCK OFFICE ENGINE OFFICE TOOK ONE LAST LOOK AROUND THE PLACE
WAS EMPTY LOOKED OUT THE FRONT DOOR EVERYBODY EVACUATED BECAUSE THE BUILDING WAS SUPPOSED TO FALL DOWN THEY ARE YELLING AT ME GET OUT OF THERE GET OUT OF THERE SAID YES ALL RIGHT
LEFT HEADED TO THE STATEN ISLAND FERRY
TH VARGAS FR BABYKN DROVE ME HOME TO LONG ISLAND CITY THAT WAS DAY ONE
BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY OKAY JUST COUPLE
20

MALLERY
OF QUESTIONS
THE WITNESS AND TWO DAY ONE AND TWO
OKAY THE LIEUTENANTS NAME DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT IT WAS
LIEUTENANT KEITH RUBY BELIEVE
LIEUTENANT KEITH RUBY YOU DONT KNOW WHERE
HE IS ASSIGNED DO YOU
HE WAS IN HEADQUARTERS WHITE SHIRT AND TIE
YOU SAID YOU SAW SOME PUMPERS WHEN YOU WERE DOWN TOWARDS WEST STREET
RIQHT
WERE THERE ANY MARKINGS ON THEM THAT YOU CAN
RECALL
THINK 54 ENGINE IM NOT SURE KERRY HORGAN GOT THE CHAUFFEUR FROM 65 ENGINE DUG OUT IM NOT SURE WHERE THAT RIG WAS BURIED
THESE WERE ALL
MAYBE SQUAD 18 DONT KNOW IT OF DIFFERENT COMPANIES
YOU SAID RAY BRESSINGHAM
HE IS RETIRED BUT HE WAS THERE
WAS LOT
THATS WHAT WANT KN WH
HE WAS WORKING WITH SOC AS RETIREE
THOSE OTHER GUYS YOU MENTIONED YOU MENTIONED
21
WAS

MALLERY
ALL THE GUYS THAT YOU HOOKED UP WITH
MY GUYS BASICALLY CURRENT AND FORMER
MEMBERS OF 10 AND 10
THATS WHAT WANTED TO KNOW THOSE WERE ALL
10 AND 10 MEMBERS
EXCEPT FOR THE FEW PEOPLE FROM 20 TRUCK
YOU SAID THE CHAUFFEUR LADDER 10 HE DID
GREAT JOB DO YOU KNOW WHERE HE WAS WHERE HIS COMPANY
WAS OPERATING
10 TRUCK ROLLED INTO TOWER ONE ON THE FIRST
ALARM
HE WAS IN TOWER ONE
IN THE LOBBY OF TOWER ONE
THATS WHERE HE STARTED HIS OPERATION
IN THE STREET HE WENT AROUND THE OUTSIDE
UP IN THE PLAZA LOOKED OUT THERE AND THEN HE WAS IN
THE LOBBY HE SAID HE WAS ALSO FEET AWAY FROM PETE GANCI AND WHEN GANCI BOUGHT IT HE WAS ONLY FEW FEET AWAY WHY HE WAS ALIVE AND GANCI IS NOT IS JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT WE DONT KNOW
OKAY LAST THING IS IN YOUR TRAVELS DID YOU ANY TH
ALL RIGHT BACK TO THAT MAYBE THEIR LOCATIONS
22

MALLERY
BACK UP STEP ONE OF MY TRIPS TO THE FRONT SAW TRUCK COME IN FROM WEST STREET HEADING
APRON
EASTBOUND
IS MEDIAN BETWEEN LIBERTY AND THE LITTLE TRADE CENTER PLAZA WHERE THE TOURISTS GET OFF THE BUSSES KNOW ITS BRAND NEW RIG AND THOUGHT ABOUT THE SPRINGS THATS HOW STUPID AM HE HOPPED THE DIVIDER AND HE PARKED TRUCKS RIG UNDERNEATH THE PEDESTRIAN FOOT
ON LIBERTY AND THEY HOPPED DIVIDER THERE
THAT RUNS FROM BANKERS TRUST OVER TO WORLD TRADE CENTER WHICH WAS GOOD MOVE BECAUSE THE BODIES
WERE DROPPINQ LIKE WATER BALLOONS
HE PARKED THE RIG UNDER THAT PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE FOR LITTLE COVER SAW THE GUYS IN TRUCK
GET OFF SQUIRREL AROUND PICK UP THEIR HOOKS AND CANS AND WHATEVER THEY DID MASKS AND THEY WENT TO THE WALL
OF NUMBER TWO HUGGED THE WALL AND THEN THEY WENT IN
THE BUILDING
ALSO SAW RESCUE FOUR THEY MUST HAVE PARKED
FURTHER AWAY AND THEY WALKED OVER THEY CAME ACROSS
BRIDGE
SAW KEVIN DOWDELL
SAW BRONCO PEERSALL AND
SAID WH
YES THAT ONE RIGHT OVER THERE THAT WAS THE LAST
SAW OF KEVIN DOWDELL
RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY PATH SAID HOW YOU DOING KEVIN
SAID NUML TW SAID
23

MALLERY
KNOW RESCUE AND LADDER BOTH WENT TO TOWER TWO HAD VISUAL ON THAT
OKAY IF THERE IS ANYTHING ELSE YOU CAN REMEMBER YOU CAN ADD IT NOW OR THAT CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW
WELL THERE WAS LOT OF STUFF BUT THATS THE
GIST OF IT RIGHT THERE
BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY OKAY THANK YOU VERY
MUCH THAT CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW
24
File No. 9110313
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        CAPTAIN ANTHONY VARRIALE
   Interview Date:  December 12, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
A. VARRIALE
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  The time is is 1450
     hours.  This is Battalion Chief Ronald Kemly of
     the Fire Department, City of New York.  I'm
     conducting an interview with the following
     individual.  Captain ANTHONY VARRIALE assigned to
     Engine Company 24, Fire Department of the City of
     New York.  The interview is taking place in the
     quarters of Engine Company 5 in the office
     regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Captain Varriale, tell me what happened to
you on September 11, 2001.
     A.   Okay.  At approximately 8:30 that morning --
I live in Valley Stream, New York.  My son picked me
up, we were going to go -- I was doing something at
his house.  We were heading towards Queens, I noticed a
large column of smoke on the horizon.  I thought it
might have been something from Newark.  As we got on
the Cross Island Parkway headed north, I could see one
of the towers of the World Trade Center, smoke coming
from it.  It was a clear day that day.
          I said to my son, let's turn the radio on,
something is happening.  As we turned the radio on,
they had mentioned that a Cessna might have hit the
World Trade Center, at which time I told my son to take
A. VARRIALE
3
me back home.  I picked up my pick up truck and I
headed in towards the quarters of Engine 24.
          On the way in, you could see that the towers
were hit.  I went through the streets of Brooklyn,
which most of the civilian population had helped clear
the streets off and I got into the Williamsburg Bridge
relatively -- maybe 20 minutes.  As I was on the
Williamsburg Bridge, I saw the second -- the first
tower collapse.  I actually stopped my truck and I
looked out.  I couldn't believe what I was seeing.
          I responded to quarters of Engine 24, which
is located at 6 Avenue and West Houston, where several
members were coming in also.
          We got our gear.  Some of the members I
remember that were with me, I can't remember all of
them, were fireman William McCarthy, fireman Anthony
Salerno, fireman Jeffrey Anstead of Ladder 5, fireman
Michael Paolone of Engine 24.  Several others and one
civilian.  We loaded up my pick up truck with first aid
equipment, some hose, rollups, whatever we felt we were
going to probably need, basically first aid equipment
and our fire fighting gear.
          At that time, we headed south on Varick
Street into West Broadway.  We got to about a block
A. VARRIALE
4
south of Chambers, between Chambers and Warren on West
Broadway, where I parked my pick up truck.  Right
around then, I believe the second tower came down,
because it was relatively clear at that point as we
were heading south.  There was lots of people heading
north and then when we got out of the van, my memory is
a little vague on that, I'm pretty sure that's when the
second tower collapsed, because we were hit with dust.
          As the dust started settling we noticed there
was nothing but vehicles and fire for as far as the eye
could see.  We actually commandeered a volunteer fire
truck.  It was the only fire truck we saw at that
point.  It was just south of Warren on West Broadway.
It was from, I believe a vollie -- volunteer company
from the Bronx.
          My chauffeur, Anthony Salerno, got into the
apparatus, we backed it up, because it was in danger of
catching fire from the numerous vehicle fires that were
on.  We found a hydrant, I believe it was Warren and
West Broadway, hooked up and stretched down West
Broadway.  We also hooked up a manifold.  We were able
to get water into some hand lines and started
extinguishing the numerous auto fires and there was two
busses, several trucks.  As we moved south, some of the
A. VARRIALE
5
fire was communicating into one of the buildings on the
west side.  We extinguished that.  I'm not sure of the
address.
          When we ran out of line, we shut down the
pumper, disconnected the hose line and then went into
-- we were now between Vesey and the block north of
that.  We went into the east side building, stretched
off the stand pipe and extinguished a couple of busses,
a bus fire, several cars and the apparatus of Engine
28, which was fully involved.  That was roughly on the
corner of West Broadway and Vesey.
          At that time, other firefighters started
showing up, Deputy Battalion Chief Paul Ferran of the
41 Battalion, and James Savastano of the First Division
assigned to the Second Battalion showed up and we
attempted to search and extinguish, at the time which
was small pockets of fire in 7 World Trade Center.  We
were unaware of the damage in the front of 7, because
we were entering from the northeast entrance.  We
weren't aware of the magnitude of the damage in the
front of the building.
          We made searches.  We attempted to put some
of the fire out, but we had a pressure problem.  I
forget the name of the Deputy.  Some Deputy arrived at
A. VARRIALE
6
the scene and thought that the building was too
dangerous to continue with operations, so we evacuated
number 7 World Trade Center.  At that time, some of my
members went with another officer, I don't remember who
it was, to try and search the collapse of -- I guess
the number one tower on Vesey Street.
          I was with one Firefighter, who I can't
remember right now, over to where we were told there
was a command post set up, which would be, I think it
was West Street and Vesey.  But I went down the block
north to it, because you couldn't go down Vesey.
          When I got there, there was hundreds of
firefighters.  Chief Fellini was there.  I guess he was
in charge.  He was trying to give people direction.  I
then went with Firefighter Paolone who ended up meeting
him there and Firefighter Jeff Anstead of Ladder 5.
          We went south on West Street under the
bridge, at which time they were just removing the body
of Chief Feehan, Deputy Commissioner Feehan, and then
from there, we started searching on what was West
Street, south of the first bridge and I operated there
for several hours.  I helped remove one Firefighter
from under the apparatus of Engine 34, with fireman
Erik Wiener of Ladder 111, and several other
A. VARRIALE
7
firefighters.  I know Erik because I had worked in
Brooklyn.
          From there I just started working my way over
eastward to the north tower.  I was there for hours.
We ended up stretching a line from somewhere.  It was a
pumper on West Street, I think, that was still intact.
We tried to stretch lines into the pile that would have
ended up being just west of number one tower.  Trying
to extinguish the fires there.
          We performed searches, void searches.  I was
also on the tower, the pile there we called it, when
they removed one victim, a male.  I believe he was the
guy that said he was on the 83 floor or 73 floor.  He
seemed to be fairly intact.  I was at that point where
I stayed most of the day because I found a face piece
from one of my members.
          Actually it was handed to me from a Captain
Steven Geraghty and so we stayed in that area.  I
thought I might be searching for members of Engine 24,
while Fireman Palone and Fireman Anstead went further
to the tower where they hooked up with Ladder 43 and
made contact with Chief Prunty of the Second Battalion,
who they said at that time was still alive.  I didn't
see that myself, but this is what they had told me
A. VARRIALE
8
later on.
          I continued operating into the evening, at
which time I went back to the quarters of Engine 24
just to freshen up.  I stayed there maybe an hour, hour
and a half, regrouped with a bunch of other guys, then
we went back and I worked through the night, searching
voids, and operating with some of my members.  We
actually had them operating a hose line now.  That was
on the south tower.
          We were there until the day, sometime the
next day.  I don't remember exactly what time.  Maybe
around noon.  We went back to quarters.  Then that's
when we went on the 24 hour, 24 hour off, 24 hour on.
That's about all I can recall now.
     Q.   Okay, just a couple of things.  When you say
you were at, you saw, Engine 34.  Where were they
located?
     A.   I'm pretty sure it was the apparatus, what
was left.  It was crushed, it was buried.  It was on
West Street.  I wasn't sure if it was Engine 34, but
Fireman Wiener said it was Engine 34.  There were two
firefighters trapped, I helped remove one.  He was
dead.  I don't know who it was.  He was pretty
mangled.
A. VARRIALE
9
          The other one, they just didn't get him out
at that time.  I ended up operating -- this actually
ended going from Engine 34 to the apparatus of Ladder
105, because they believed there were members trapped
under that.  I worked there for a while.  So I wasn't
present when they got the second body out.
     Q.   105 is also on West Street?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   South of that foot bridge?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Steve Geraghty you mentioned, where is he
from?
     A.   Well I know him from working in Brooklyn.  He
is a Captain, I believe.  He is not a Captain of 111.
I don't know where he was assigned at that time.
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  Okay, if you have
     nothing, else that concludes the interview.  Thank
     you.
File No. 9110314
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER MICHAEL PALONE
   Interview Date:  December 12, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
M. PALONE 2
          CHIEF KEMLY:  Today's date is December
     12, 2001.  The time is 1515.  This is
     Battalion Chief Ronald Kemly of the Fire
     Department of the City of New York.  I'm
     conducting an interview with the following
     individual:  Michael Palone, fireman first
     grade, Engine Company 24 of the Fire
     Department of the City of New York.  The
     interview is taking place in the office of
     Engine Company 5 regarding the events of
     September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Fireman Palone, please tell me what
happened in your own words on September 11th,
2001.
     A.   On September 11th after the two planes
hit the World Trade Center, I heard about the
recall over the phone and headed into the city.
When I arrived at the firehouse, a bunch of guys
were getting into Captain Variale's pickup truck.
I grabbed my stuff, jumped in the back of the
pickup truck and went down Seventh Avenue down to
the site.
          As we got down to the site, there were
also two car fires.  We tried extinguishing car
M. PALONE 3
fires on the way down.  We had a problem with the
water pressure.  There was no water pressure out
of the hydrants.  We tried hooking up to a
pumper, basically trying to put out the car
fires, not too much success because of the water
problem.
          We went into World Trade Seven to try
and get their standpipe system to possibly use
their water off their tank on the roof.  Then
from there we met a bunch of people outside of 5,
hooked up with Darren Lebow and Kevin -- what's
Kevin's last name that used to work there?
          Anyway, I hooked up with a couple of
guys and went into the basement of five, got
right next to the collapse, searched for people,
searched through the cars in the bottom of five,
couldn't find anybody.  I went back up to the
street level and ended up going around to the
front of five where 5 Truck, 24 Engine was and
went up onto the mezzanine into the building
there and searched through there for a while.  We
were ordered out of there.  We came out of there.
          We went back down and hooked up with
Craig Monahan, I believe, Jeff Anstead, myself,
M. PALONE 4
Bobby Beddia and went from where we were on West
Street under the walkway bridge.  That would put
us in between the two walkway bridges and across
the pile of rubble into I believe it was the B
stairway, where they were searching for Ladder 6.
          We hooked up with a guy from rescue who
was lowering down a civilian and tied the rope
off from him.  A guy from rescue in the top of
the staircase lowered the civilian down and then
slid down himself and then went down those
stairs.
          They were getting the woman Sylvia out,
basically helped carry her out on the stretcher.
6 came out somewhere there when we were there.  6
Truck came out.  We were there for a while trying
to get Battalion Chief Prunty, who was trapped
under the steel in the bottom of the staircase.
          There were a couple of other companies
down there; I'm not sure who.  We were down there
for a while until we were ordered off, because
they were worried about Seven coming down.  We
ended up  coming out of there and going off the
rubble and then over towards the marina, cleaning
up our eyes and just basically getting ourselves
M. PALONE 5
back together until we went back to the
firehouse.  I don't really know times.
     Q.   Just a couple quick questions.  Darren
Lebow --
     A.   5 Truck.
     Q.   He was from 5 Truck?
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   You operated with him for quite --
     A.   Right.  When we went down into the
bottom of five, we got right next to the bottom
of the collapse, and we were in there pretty
close.  Kevin Anderson was with us.  It was me,
Lebow, Kevin Anderson.
          We basically grabbed any tools we could
out of a Port Authority suburban that was down
there.  Anything that we thought we could use we
grabbed and tried to do whatever we could.
     Q.   But it was just the three of you at
that point?
     A.   It was the three of us at that point.
Then when we came back up, we hooked up -- I
think 5 Truck was there with the captain of 5 and
the rest of 5 Truck and then hooked up with
Monahan and Beddia and Anstead and then actually
M. PALONE 6
went over to that B stairway.
     Q.   You saw 5 and 24's rigs?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Where were they located?
     A.   5's ladder was going up to Five World.
I believe that was five world, and 24 Engine was
just behind them.
     Q.   On what street?
     A.   On West Street.
     Q.   When you say the chief ordered you
out -- you didn't say chief.  You said somebody
ordered you out of the building.
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   Do you know who that was?
     A.   I think it might have been Blaich.  I'm
not sure.  It was a division chief who was
ordering us out for a while.
     Q.   When you said you hooked up with
Monahan, Beddia and all of those guys, those are
the members of Engine 24 and Ladder 5, just to
clarify that?
A. Yes.
     Q.   And the guy from rescue that was going
down, do you know what rescue it was?
M. PALONE 7
     A.   I don't know what rescue it was.  I
think it might have been -- I'm not sure.  I
don't know.
Q. Okay.
     A.   He was up above us.  He was looking to
tie the rope off, I tied it off to the banister,
and Jeff Anstead was with me.  He went up to see
if he could help him, but it was up there and
everything was a little compromised.  He didn't
know what he was stepping on and everything else.
It was just a little unstable.
     Q.   Okay.  If you have nothing else, this
will conclude the interview.
     A.   That's it.
     Q.   Okay.  Thank you.
File No. 9110315
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       LIEUTENANT MICHAEL HADDEN
   Interview Date:  December 12, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
M. HADDEN 2
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today's date is
     December 12th, 2001.  The time is 2:15 p.m.,
     and this is Battalion Chief Kenahan of the
     Safety Battalion of the Fire Department of
     the City of New York.
          I'm conducting an interview with
     Lieutenant Michael Hadden from Engine 35, in
     the quarters of Engine 35.
     Q.   Lieutenant, just state the facts as you
remember them on September 11th.
     A.   I was scheduled for education day on
September 11th.  Education day was canceled.  We
reported to the quarters of Engine 35.  We went
down with Engine 35 in a convoy of five other
engines.  We proceeded south on the West Side
Highway.
          We had no idea what was going on or
what had transpired.  We were special called as
additional engines after the second fifth.  I
believe the ticket we got was around 9:50; I'm
not sure.
          The company from the night before was
held over, so I was effectively an extra officer.
Battalion Chief Ferran was with me.  The company
M. HADDEN 3
stayed at the staging area.  I believe they were
at Murray and West Street.
          Chief Ferran and myself headed south on
West Street.  We got around Barclay Street when
the second tower, the north tower, started to
come down.  I took cover next to a fence, and
once the dust started to clear, I headed south
towards the tower.
          There wasn't much that I could see at
the time.  It was very dusty.  I started
encountering rigs that were crushed.  I made it
to the north walkway with two firefighters from
85 Truck who were there.  They had been separated
from their unit.  We searched under the north
walkway.  There was no signs of life around any
of the apparatus.
          We came out from the north walkway.  I
hooked up with two guys from 14 Truck who had
come down on their own.  This was after the
second tower had come down.  There was no
presence of Fire Department personnel by the
crosswalk, by the north walkway at West Street at
that time.
          Do you want me to tell you what I did
M. HADDEN 4
the whole day?
     Q.   No, no, that's fine.  What we're
interested in is the time around the collapse.
     A.   I had no handy talky.  I had no radio
access.  I didn't hear anything.  When we were
heading south on West Street, the first person I
actually saw was Chief Mike Telesca being helped
north.  Then I encountered a lot of people just
kind of walking around dazed.
          That's about it at the time of the
collapse.  The rest of the day, I remember pretty
much exactly what I did but my time frame is all
messed up.
     Q.   That's okay.
          When the north tower came down, just
prior to it, was there anything you saw with the
north tower that would indicate it was coming
down?  Did you see anything or it was just coming
down?
     A.   No, it just started coming down.  Just
the noise -- we were heading south on West
Street, and Chief Ferran and myself were saying
to each other that thing isn't going to come
down, not knowing that the south tower had
M. HADDEN 5
already come down.
          It seemed like it was in slow motion
until it got about a block away, and then it was
fast.
     Q.   Thanks a lot, Mike.
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time now is 2:19,
     and this concludes the interview.

FILE NO 9110316
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW LIEUTENANT JAMES CASEY
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 12 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

CASEY
CHIEF KENAHAN TODAYS DATE IS DECEMBER 12TH 2001 AND THE TIME IS 145
PM
JAMES CASEY FROM ENGINE 91 IN THE QUARTERS
OF ENGINE 91
LIEUTENANT JUST STATE THE FACTS AS YOU
REMEMBER THEM ON SEPTEMBER 11TH
WE RESPONDED WHEN THE PLANE HIT THE
SOUTH TOWER WHICH WOULD BE TWO WORLD TRADE
THEY JUST TOLD US TO RESPOND AND THEY WOULD SEND US TICKET LATER
WE RESPONDED ON WEST STREET WE PARKED THE RIGS GUESS YOU WOULD CALL IT NORTH OF THE
NORTH PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE WE WERE JUST NORTH OF THAT WE RESPONDED TO THE COMMAND POST AT THE
WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER NUMBER TWO WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER
WHILE THERE IT WAS CALLED OVER THE COMMAND CENTER THAT THERE WAS CIVILIAN
EMPLOYEE AN ENGINEER FROM TWO WORLD TRADE
CENTER HE SAID HE KNEW HOW WE COULD CONTROL THE
THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF DENNIS KENAHAN FROM THE SAFETY BATTALION OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH LIEUTENANT

CASEY
VALVES TO INCREASE THE WATER PRESSURE IN THE BUILDING
SO WE WERE ORDERED TO GO OVER THERE HOWEVER WE DID NOT HAVE FORCIBLE ENTRY TOOLS
SENT MY CHAUFFEUR BACK TO THE RIG TO OBTAIN THE FORCIBLE ENTRY TOOLS AND WHILE WAITING TWO
WORLD TRADE CENTER COLLAPSED
WE RAN INTO THE GARAGE THAT IS LOCATED
AT TWO WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER LATER ON FOUND OUT THAT TWO OF MY MEN RAN OUT THE REAR AND
AND ANOTHER ONE OF MY MEN RESPONDED TO THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING GENERAL CHAOS ENSUED
ME AND THAT ONE MEMBER WENT BACK LOOKING FOR THE CHAUFFEUR TO THE RIG COULD NOT FIND HIM AND ORDERED THAT MEMBER WAS QUALIFIED CHAUFFEUR TO MOVE THE RIG OUT OF HARMS WAY GUESS
WE MOVED THE RIG OUT OF THE WAY AND THEN WENT BACK LOOKING FOR MY CHAUFFEUR AND THE SECOND ONE CAME DOWN SO GOT CAUGHT IN THE SMOKE FROM THAT ONE WENT BACK OUT AGAIN
GUESS UP TO MURRAY
COLLAPSED
WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THE SECOND TOWER

CASEY
IWAS
ON WEST STREET
ON WEST STREET MAKING MY WAY BACK LOOKING FOR MY CHAUFFEUR
AFTER THE COLLAPSE GOT BACK INTO THE CLEAR AND FOUND THE TWO MISSING MEMBERS THEN
WENT BACK IN AGAIN AND FOUND MY CHAUFFEUR WHO WAS BEING TREATED BY EMS HE WAS TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL
THEN THE WHOLE COMPANY GOT TOGETHER AGAIN AND WE TRIED TO GO BACK IN BUT THAT WAS
IT WE WERE TOLD TO GO OFF TO THE SIDE AND REST THAT WAS IT FOR THE DAY
PRIOR TO THE COLLAPSE DID YOU HEAR ANY
MAYDAYS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT
IM TRYING TO THINK KNOW THERE WERE
MAYDAYS ALL OVER THE PLACE THAT DAY CANT SAY FOR SURE
NO PARTICULAR COMPANY OR ANYTHING STICKS OUT IN YOUR MIND
NO THERE WERE MAYDAYS THAT WERE COMING ALL OVER ALL THE TIME BETWEEN THAT AND
THE JUMPERS THAT WAS BASICALLY IT OKAY

CASEY
CHIEF KENAHAN THE TIME NOW IS 149 AND THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW
File No. 9110317
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER GEORGE RODRIGUEZ
   Interview Date:  December 12, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
                  G. RODRIGUEZ                  2
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time is 11:01 a.m.,
     and this is Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan
     of the New York City Fire Department, Safety
     Battalion.  I'm conducting an interview with
     George Rodriguez, firefighter first grade of
     Ladder 22, in the quarters of Ladder 22.
     Q.   George, just tell us the events as you
recall them on September 11th.
     A.   On September 11th we weren't dispatched
to go down to the World Trade Center until the
second plane hit the building.  We responded by
getting on the West Side Highway at 96th Street
and subsequently went southbound until we reached
the towers.
          I was assigned to Ladder Company 22,
but I'm a recent transfer from the engine.  I
happen to be an engine company chauffeur and was
assigned to drive Engine 76 that day.
          En route we met up with Ladder Company
25 on the West Side Highway.  We traveled
southbound together and arrived at the towers at
approximately the same time.
          Upon arrival I dropped off the members
of my company, which was Engine 76 that day, on
                  G. RODRIGUEZ                  3
Vesey and West.  They proceeded with their
equipment to the command post, and I proceeded to
go east on Vesey to seek out a source of water
and/or to assist any other chauffeurs I saw down
there.
          I first parked my apparatus
approximately 75 feet east of West Street on
Vesey.  I sized up the situation.  Pretty much
all the hydrants in the area were taken.
          At that point I grabbed some standpipe
tools from my apparatus, and I proceeded to walk
east on Vesey to assist any other chauffeurs as
necessary.  Pretty much all of that was being
done.
          I remember at that point looking up at
the towers.  The operation was growing in size.
Many civilians were coming out the windows or
being blown out the windows.
          As much as I didn't want to, I went up
on the concourse in between the north and south
towers to actually see if there was any help I
could render to anyone; there wasn't.
          I came back down to the street.  I met
up with Commissioner Von Essen at that time.  I
                  G. RODRIGUEZ                  4
told the Commissioner what I saw on the
concourse.  His response is not that important.
          So I proceeded to get back into my rig
and drive down Vesey.  I took a U turn and I came
back.  I saw the maintenance crew to Seven World
Trade Center standing there watching the
building.  I gathered them up and asked them if
they had fire pumps in the building.  They did.
          I had a Siamese directly across
Washington Street on Vesey going into the towers,
so I used the maintenance men and an engine
company chauffeur from 26 Engine named Mike
Incantalupo.  I used him to hook up a source of
water from their fire pumps to my rig and into
the World Trade Center, which the Siamese was
located right below Six World Trade Center, the
U.S. Customs building.
          At that point we were supplying the
standpipe Siamese.  All was going well with that.
The operation was growing in intensity.  At that
point the preliminary sounds of the collapse
started, the loud crackling sounds.  We all
started running, because I think the energy
coming down through the cylinders of the building
                  G. RODRIGUEZ                  5
because of the pancake, the energy came out first
and then the actual debris started coming.
          So we all ran.  Myself and the
chauffeur of 26 Engine grabbed about 30 civilians
as well as the maintenance men, and we put them
all in the basement of Seven World Trade Center.
At that point all power was off in the buildings.
The only means of egress was out onto Washington
Street, which was totally covered with debris and
ash.  You couldn't get out the door.  There was
no means of egress from that particular point in
the basement.
          So I gave a mayday.  I heard a lot of
other maydays on the radio; I couldn't even
pinpoint to you which ones.  I gave a mayday:
"Mayday, mayday, mayday.  This is Engine 76
chauffeur to command post.  I'm trapped in the
basement of Seven World Trade Center with
approximately 30 civilians and another fireman."
I got no answer, but I figured guys were in much
worse situations, so I just shut up on the radio
and listened.
          Two of the civilians didn't want to
stay in the basement.  They wanted to get out
                  G. RODRIGUEZ                  6
because it was a smoke condition down there and a
lot of ash.  You couldn't really breathe that
well, but it was much better than outside.
          We tried to block the door so they
wouldn't go out.  The situation wasn't going to
get good with that, so I stepped aside, let them
run out.  Unfortunately for them they ran to the
left, which happened to be right towards Vesey
Street, which was the wrong way to go.  I never
saw those two again.
          It seemed like an eternity.  As it
started lifting, myself and the chauffeur of 26
Engine removed all the civilians to the right
down Washington Street towards Barclay and
evacuated them from the area.
          At that point we still were hearing
maydays over the radio from right in our area,
from Vesey and Washington.  So we made our way
down to try and see if we can help another
fireman.  Actually the mayday was coming from --
I'm not sure if it was Vesey and Washington.
There was a bridge there going from the Trade
Center to seven world, and it was right under
that area we were hearing the maydays from.
                  G. RODRIGUEZ                  7
          So we went down Washington, took a
left, which is east on Vesey, and we started
looking for this guy that was in trouble.  No
luck in finding him.
          At that point that sound came back, and
the second tower started to go, which happened to
be tower number one.  We did everything we could
to make it back to Washington and turn northbound
on Washington.  As we turned the corner, the
rubble started coming down, but the energy caught
us first.  I think it was a lucky thing because
the energy actually picked us up and threw us
about 40 feet.
          We rolled on the ground.  We kind of
got separated.  I had my mask on.
     Q.   You had your face piece on too?
     A.   No.  I just had the mask on and the
cylinder turned on.  The other chauffeur didn't,
so when we got separated he was in a real bad
way.
          I looked up.  That was it.  I didn't
really realize I was alive until I started
hearing him call my name.  I searched around for
him.  I donned my face piece.  I searched around
                  G. RODRIGUEZ                  8
for him, found him, buddy-breathed with him.  I
took him down Washington, east on Barclay, north
on whatever street that is and put him in an
ambulance.
          At that point I went back and I started
searching for my company, which I thought both
companies were gone because they had gone into
the command post.  After the second collapse
there wasn't really much chatter on the radio.
So the silence was actually the worst part of it
all, you know?
          Basically that's it.  I really can't
recall which companies I saw going into the
buildings.
Q. Okay.
     A.   I saw companies going up on to the
concourse.  That's where a lot of civilians were
coming and hitting the ground like water
balloons.  Prior to the collapses we grabbed a
couple civilians out of there.
          It was so crazy at that moment.  There
was just no answers on the radio.  You just did
all you could.  My rig was gone.  I thought my
companies were gone.  I knew a lot of other
                  G. RODRIGUEZ                  9
companies were gone.  You just picked an area and
started digging.
          You actually had to pass over seriously
injured people to help more seriously injured
people.  That was insane in itself.  The
conception of that is crazy.
     Q.   Were you able to meet up with your
company later or not?
     A.   The first person I saw was Chief
McNally.  I guess whatever situation he had been
involved with, as soon as the situation got to a
point where he could make it towards the
buildings again, he came back in.  He could
barely even talk because of everything that was
going on, myself included.
          I heard Chief Harten from the 10th
Battalion on the radio trying to get in touch
with McNally, and McNally's radio died.  So I
said, "Don't worry, Chief, I'll send it for you."
I couldn't get Harten either on the radio.  The
reason I know them, because they were both
battalion chiefs here.
          I told Chief McNally, "I'll go over
there and I'll go personally deliver your
                  G. RODRIGUEZ                 10
message."  I went over and I did that.  On the
way we had helped a couple people out.  On the
way to go deliver the chief's message, I ran into
my engine officer, Frank Farrington.
          At that point we started to try and get
a head count, all right, what have we got, who's
alive, who's not alive.  Let's start with our
company, we'll group up, we'll go and get whoever
is there.
          There was a lot of firemen.  The
firemen that were remaining after the collapses
were trying to regroup with their guys and then
go back and help other people.  That's pretty
much what I found.
          It turned out that all the guys in the
engine that day made it.  Then we started hearing
the different truck names, they made it, and the
only one in question at that point was Chief
Picciotto and his aide, Gary Sheridan.
          Then we got the orders that we were
going to regroup.  Bring out another command
post.  I'm not sure exactly where it was.  It was
probably north on the West Side Highway.  Way
north on the West Side Highway, they got another
                  G. RODRIGUEZ                 11
command post ready.  They had a full recall.   I
met up with my company, and I came back and we
started searching for people.
          That's pretty much my whole account of
the situation.
     Q.   All right.  Thanks a lot, George.
     A.   Thank you, Chief.
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time now is 11:13,
     and this concludes the interview.
File No. 9110318
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER FERNANDO CAMACHO
   Interview Date:  December 12, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
F. CAMACHO 2
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time is 11:17 a.m.,
     and this is Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan,
     Safety Battalion of the Fire Department of
     the City of New York.  I am conducting an
     interview with Fernando Camacho of Ladder
     22, in the quarters of Ladder 22.
     Q.   Fernando, describe the events as you
recall them on September 11th.
     A.   On the morning of September 11th I was
on house watch, and it was about 8:00.  A little
bit after 8, because I was watching the news, I
saw the first airplane or it would seem, an
explosion on one of the towers; I believe it was
the north tower. Chief Picciotto came down,
called the dispatcher and went out on his way
down.
          Approximately 15 minutes later, both
the engine and the truck, we got our tickets to
go down to the World Trade Center.  It took us
about maybe 20 minutes to get there.  We came out
of our truck prepared to receive our orders,
walked down to the command post which was across
the street on the West Side Highway.  It was
across the street from the north tower.  We
F. CAMACHO 3
waited there approximately about 15 minutes for
our orders.
          After we waited for a while, we were
told to go into the lobby of the Vista Hotel.  We
proceeded along the right side of the highway,
basically the same side of the command post, down
to the south pedestrian bridge, under the
pedestrian bridge, to avoid being hit by bodies
and debris going down.
          We came in through the corner of
Liberty and the West Side Highway into the Vista
Hotel.  There was a setup, a small command post
or small gathering of firefighters there with a
couple of chiefs.  I can't tell who they were.  I
don't remember that.
          We were in there approximately another
ten minutes.  Lieutenant Riley came back from
talking to the chief, and we were assigned to go
to the 75th floor.  We got our equipment together
and started walking up.  Ladder 25 had gone ahead
of us about five minutes before we got assigned
to go to the 75th floor.
          We went across the lobby of the hotel,
going north, and we exited and made a right going
F. CAMACHO 4
towards the second tower, the south tower.  We
must have walked about 100-200 feet to revolving
doors, which led into a hallway to where the mall
was.  I could see maybe 20, 25 civilians and I
believe Ladder 25, which was about another 100 to
150 feet ahead of us.
          As we came in through the revolving
doors, the lights went out.  A second or two
later everything started to shake.  You could
hear explosions.  We didn't know what it was.  We
thought it was just a small collapse.
          As I looked straight ahead of me, I saw
total darkness.  Everything was coming our way
like a wave.  The firefighters that were ahead of
us and the civilians that were ahead of us
totally disappeared.
          We turned around.  We were all pretty
much within ten feet of each other:  lieutenant,
chauffeur, roof, OV, can.  As we turned around, I
ran probably maybe ten feet and that's when the
body of the building or body of the collapse hit,
and we were flying through the air basically.  I
must have flown 30, 40 feet through the air.
          Then total quiet.  You couldn't
F. CAMACHO 5
breathe.  You couldn't see anything.  None of the
equipment worked.  My face piece was gone,
flashlight, helmet.  There were about maybe five
or six civilians around us.  We tried to get them
out, as we tried to make our way out.
          We did a perimeter search.  Everything
behind us was blocked and to our sides.  We came
back out basically through the same way we came
into the building.  We were facing the West Side
Highway now, but there was a hole in the side of
the building.  So that's how we found our way
out.
          The only thing I know is that it was
the roof, the OV and myself that got out.  I had
the can.  Lieutenant Riley and the chauffeur we
couldn't find.  We didn't know if they were
trapped or they made their way out in some other
fashion.  We found out later that they did make
their way out, through another exit or behind us.
          The West Side Highway was still pretty
clear.  There wasn't a lot of debris in front of
us.  We made our way north underneath the
pedestrian bridge that's to the north.  As we
approached the rig again, I was being tended by
F. CAMACHO 6
EMS for head wounds.
          Five minutes after that the north tower
started to lean.
     Q.   You saw it leaning?
     A.   Yeah.
          What happened was that as I was
standing there and getting bandaged, somebody
said the tower is leaning.  So me and Gorman --
he had the irons.  We turned around and looked,
and we could see the tower leaning.  As it
started to lean, it just came straight down.  Now
we're running again.
     Q.   Which way was it leaning?  Towards West
Street?
     A.   The tower was leaning not towards -- it
leaned somewhat northwest but not -- it came down
pretty straight after it leaned.  It didn't
really continue to lean.  It just leaned a little
bit and then came straight down.
          Basically that's it.  We ran and we
went into the high school that's I believe
somewhere --
     Q.   On Chambers.
     A.   Chambers, yeah.  It might be Chambers,
F. CAMACHO 7
a little further up from Chambers Street.  We
came back out after the cloud passed us and
started helping out people that couldn't breathe
or were injured.
          That's basically the bulk of the
information I can give.
     Q.   Fine.  Let me get one thing straight.
From the time you noticed the leaning to the time
of it coming down, are we talking about seconds
here?
     A.   No more than three, four seconds.
     Q.   All right.  Thank you for all your
help, Fernando.
     A.   No problem.
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time now is 11:27,
     and this concludes the interview.
File No. 9110319
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER JOHN MALLEY
   Interview Date:  December 12, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
J. MALLEY 2
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  It's December 12th,
     2001.  The time is 11:31 a.m., and this is
     Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan, Safety
     Battalion of the Fire Department of the City
     of New York.  I'm conducting an interview
     with Firefighter John Malley of Ladder 22,
     in the quarters of Ladder 22.
     Q.   John, just tell us the events as you
recall them on September 11th.
     A.   We responded on the second fifth alarm,
work our way down.  The streets were kind of
cleared, and the police had everything opened.
We got there pretty fast; I don't know how fast,
but record time to get all the way down there
from here.
          We pulled up on West Street, maybe a
block away from the north tower, maybe half a
block; I'm not sure.  We grabbed our gear and
worked our way down.  We were right under the
north tower when we realized people were jumping
right very close to us.  So we had to run across
the street to avoid being hit by debris and
people.
          As we're halfway across the street, we
J. MALLEY 3
hear on the radio about an urgent message or a
mayday message about a third plane en route.  So
we kind of froze there.  We said now what do we
do?  Do we go back into the building or take
cover under where the command post was in the
garages.
          So the men went to the garage, and the
officer went to the command post.  We stood there
and watched everybody jumping and waiting for our
assignments, for our officer to come back.
          People started to jump with such a --
it was maybe one jumper every five seconds at one
point, every ten seconds.  Then they just started
jumping like one every one second, two seconds.
There were people just coming down like it was
raining people.
          One of the officers -- I don't remember
who -- said that's it, we've got to do something.
Truck companies on the left, engine companies on
the right, we'll start going single file.  We
can't wait any longer.
          So we were going in not knowing where
this third plane, whether this plane was coming
or not.  I remember hearing I think it was Ganci
J. MALLEY 4
asking if we could get confirmation on whether
the military can down the plane or not.  I didn't
hear whether it was or wasn't.  All I know is we
were going in regardless.
          We proceeded to hug the west side of
West Street to avoid any debris.  We went from
the north walkway to the south walkway pedestrian
bridge, where we went from the pedestrian bridge
one at a time, ran into the Liberty entrance of
the Vista Hotel.
          At that point we were just mulling
around in the lobby, waiting for our assignments.
I believe I might have seen the guys from 25.  I
was kind of shocked, so I don't really know who I
was talking to.
          I was dreading walking up the stairs.
I was worried about having to hump those stairs,
because my heart was already racing about 150
beats a minute.  It was racing, and I knew that
claiming those stairs were going to make it
almost unbearable.
          We proceeded.  We got our assignment to
work the 75th floor and above of the south tower.
We proceeded through.  We went north through the
J. MALLEY 5
Vista Hotel lobby into the atrium, I believe, of
the north tower, made a right turn, proceeded
east in the atrium, preparing to go through
revolving doors into -- I don't know because it
was pitch-black.  We were walking into darkness.
          As we walked through those revolving
doors, that's when we felt the rumble.  I felt
the rumbling, and then I felt the force coming at
me.  I was like, what the hell is that?  In my
mind it was a bomb going off.
          The pressure got so great, I stepped
back behind the columns separating the revolving
doors.  Then the force just blew past me.  It
blew past me it seemed for a long time.  In my
mind I was saying what the hell is this and when
is it going to stop?
          Then it finally stopped, that pressure
which I thought was a concussion of an explosion.
It turns out it was the down pressure wind of the
floors collapsing on top of each other.  At that
point everything went black, and then the collapse
came.  It just rained on top of us.  Everything
came.  It rained debris forever.  I was
semiburied.  I thought I might be the only one
J. MALLEY 6
alive at that point, because it was just an
incredible amount of debris falling around us.
          Although I was relatively unhurt -- it
was miraculous.  I couldn't believe I was still
alive, with the amount of debris that came down.
At that point I was amazed I was still alive.
When I stood up, I thought I was going to drown
in the dust, because I didn't know the dust was
coming because it was pitch-black.
          Then I went to put on my mask to don
the face piece.  I don't know if my face was so
covered with dust or the mask was covered with
dust, but it was pretty useless.
          I hopped up when I could.  I heard one
of my members calling Ladder 22 to have a roll
call.  So we pretty much were scurrying around in
the dark, we found each other, everybody but the
lieutenant.  We couldn't find the lieutenant.  We
had all five members.
          There were secondary explosions, I
don't know, aerosol cans or whatever.  But we're
in the darkness.  We see basically the glow of a
flashlight and still things coming down.  The
noise, the explosions, whatever it was.  I don't
J. MALLEY 7
know, we just realized we had to get the heck out
of there.
          We still couldn't breathe.  There was
still heavy dust.  So we started to make our way
out.  We said let's dig our way out and then
we'll come back for the lieutenant.
          As I started to proceed in the
direction I felt was the way I came in, I felt
wind, so I walked towards the wind.  The guys I
was with were getting further away, and I was
trying to explain to them that it's this way.  I
said, "It's this way.  It's this way.  I can feel
the wind."  They were saying, "No, no.  It's this
way."  So I continued on my own.
          I met a civilian.  The civilian asked
me what he should do.  I said, "Stay with me.
I'm going to walk into the wind, and we'll get
out of here."  I continued to walk, and then I
realized that I was about a foot away from a fire
truck.  I felt I must be outside now, although I
wasn't a hundred percent sure because I could
have been in a garage.  I don't know because it
was still completely dark.
          As I was at the fire truck, I heard my
J. MALLEY 8
lieutenant calling me, so I answered him.  I
relayed to him that everybody was okay and we
were working our way outside.  He said he's on
his way outside, that we would meet outside.
          That's when I realized I was outside,
because something landed right behind me.  It
sounded like a body.  The same sound that I heard
before when the bodies were landing was similar
to the sound that I just heard.
          Then it occurred to me that I was in
harm's way right now, because I'm underneath this
thing and I could get hit and not know because I
can't see it coming.  So I decided to run what I
thought was west.  It turns out it was.  I ran
across the street.  I was tripping over people
and hoses and everything.
          I worked my way up to that green fence.
There was a green fence.  I had worked my way
back into the Vista Hotel, and that's how I got
out.  I could start to see daylight north.  So I
started walking towards the daylight.  The first
time I stopped I was under the north foot bridge.
          While I was standing there, things
started to clear up.  One of the chiefs that I
J. MALLEY 9
know, Chief McNally, told me to stand post on
Vesey and West Street and try to get everybody I
could to go north to get away from the collapse
zone.
          So while I was standing there, EMS
workers started to try to clean me up because I
was completely covered in dust.  My eyes were
almost sealed shut with the dust.
          While I was there I saw a few guys,
Kevin Gorman and Camacho.  I told them we have to
work our way north from here.  I don't know where
the other guys were.  I just remember pretty much
at that point hearing on the police radio that
the building looked like -- the north tower was
going to come down.
          At that point I didn't know the
building came down.  I thought I was still in the
explosion.  I didn't know the whole building had
come down.
          So while I was on the corner of Vesey
and West, the police, everybody, started herding
everybody north of there, saying that the
building was coming down, the building was coming
down.
J. MALLEY 10
          So I got to about Barclay and west, and
I looked up and I started to see the building
crumbling down.  That's when I turned around and
just started running.  I believe I dove in the
bushes around Murray Street and was engulfed
again in the cloud.
          That's pretty much it.  Then we worked
our way north to the command post.  We were
relieved there by the guys that were on the
recall.  They started taking our masks and gear
and everything.
          I was so covered with insulation dust
and everything, I was itching like crazy.  I
hosed myself off on West Street.  It wasn't doing
anything, so we all got together at that point.
We were standing at the command post, wherever it
was, north of the Trade Center.
          At that point the lieutenant said he
was going to go let them know that all our
members were accounted for.  We told him that we
were going to try to find a local firehouse to go
shower off.
          That was it.
     Q.   Okay, John.  Thank you very much.
J. MALLEY 11
     CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time now is 11:45,
and this concludes the interview.
File No. 9110320
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
     LIEUTENANT FRANCIS FARRINGTON
   Interview Date:  December 12, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
                 F. FARRINGTON                  2
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  It's 11:58 a.m., and
     this is Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan,
     Safety Battalion of the Fire Department of
     the City of New York.  I am conducting an
     interview with Lieutenant Francis Farrington
     of Engine 76, in the quarters of Engine 76.
     Q.   Francis, just tell me the events as you
recall them on September 11th.
     A.   We were in the firehouse and we had
seen -- we had the television on and we saw some
tape of the first plane into the first building.
     Q.   The north tower.
     A.   The north tower.  At that time the
second plane struck the second tower and
immediately Chief Picciotto contacted the
dispatcher and informed him that we needed to
double the response assignment.  He jumped in his
battalion car and he responded, informed the
dispatcher he was going to the World Trade
Center.
          Shortly thereafter we received a
ticket, and the ticket was for the second fifth
alarm for the second tower.  We responded second
due on the second fifth.
                 F. FARRINGTON                  3
          We responded down the West Side
Highway.  Approximately three blocks from the
World Trade Center, we received a radio
transmission from the Manhattan dispatcher that
advised all the units responding in on the second
fifth alarm to report in to the command post on
West Street.
          We momentarily parked the apparatus
under the pedestrian bridge just north of Liberty
Street.  We exited the apparatus.  The chauffeur
positioned, attempted to take a position on the
north side of the towers to impede the Siamese.
I'm sure he can inform you the specifics on that
if he hasn't done so already.
          At that point we directed our members
to return with rollups, so we set up in front of
Two World Financial Center on West Street.  The
command post and staging area was located in
front of a parking garage.
          We reported in, we stand fast.  We were
waiting for our assignment when the south tower
collapsed.  At that point my members and myself
and some other companies took refuge into the
parking garage.  We felt that was our best
                 F. FARRINGTON                  4
protection at that point.  We headed into the
garage.
          My concern at that point was to shelter
my company and also find an alternative means out
of the garage.  I did a quick check in the
building and I found -- I hoped to find and I did
find a stairway leading up to the garage.  We
found the exit, hooked up a search rope and we
stretched the search rope back into the garage,
because at that point various personnel, civilian
and firemen personnel, had scattered at that
point.
          We got them on the search rope, got
them up into the tower, up about two flights.  We
were on the west side of Two World Financial
Center and were heading towards the water.  We
didn't receive orders at that point.  We tried to
regroup in the staging area along the Hudson
River at that point.
          We awaited orders at that point when
the second tower -- we were forming up in the
staging area when the second tower collapsed.
     Q.   Where exactly was the staging area?
     A.   We attempted to find the staging area
                 F. FARRINGTON                  5
at Vesey and north river.  Different battalions
were reporting in, and we were trying to group
together.  At that point or shortly thereafter,
the second tower collapsed.
          After it had collapsed, we regrouped
and were ordered by the command chief -- I don't
know his name -- to conduct a perimeter search
along Vesey Street and West Street.  We did so.
The conditions were very quiet and very poor
visibility.  It was almost like we had a blizzard
there.
          During the search we were ordered by
one of the battalions to move north above --
towards Stuyvesant High School -- under the
overpass at Chambers Street, because at that
point it was feared that Six World Trade Center
was going to collapse.  It did so later in the
afternoon.
          While at the command post some people I
saw that eventually were, killed or missing,
Chief Ganci, Donald Burns, Chief Downey, Captain
Stackpole, Chaplain Juose.  As I was crossing
West Street, I saw Safety Chief or SOC Chief
Paolillo.
                 F. FARRINGTON                  6
          That's pretty much the story at that
point.  If there's any other people, I'll let you
know.  As far as companies reporting in, Ladder
22 was with us at the staging area and ordered
into the building.  I believe they were ordered
into the south tower, and they were on their way
through the north tower, I believe, into the
south tower when the south tower came down.  They
were apparently inundated and buried in the
lobby.  Their members could probably give you
more specifics there.
          Reports of Ladder 25, I didn't see them
directly, but some of the men reported they saw
them entering an elevator and were never heard
from again.  Lieutenant Nichols talks about
contact with people in 4 Truck, so he may be able
to give you more information.  He's in Engine 74.
          I think that's it for now.  If I had
more, I'd give it to you.
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time now is 12:05,
     and this interview is concluded.
File No. 9110321
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         FIREFIGHTER JOHN BREEN
   Interview Date:  December 12, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
J. BREEN 2
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today's date is
     December 12th, 2001.  The time is 3:17 p.m.
     This is Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan of
     the Safety Battalion of the Fire Department
     of the City of New York.  I'm conducting an
     interview with John Breen, firefighter
     fourth grade from Engine 74.  The interview
     is taking place in the quarters of Engine
     74.
     Q.   John, just tell us the events of
September 11th.
     A.   On that morning we got the run -- after
the second building was hit, that's when we got
the run.  It was after 9:00.  It came over the
voice alarm.  The whole battalion was called to
go.  us, 25 Truck, 47 Engine, 76 and 22 and 35
and 40 I believe were the companies that I heard
over the voice alarm to respond.
          We went down the West Side Highway.  We
had a clear go all the way down.  It was no
problem as far as traffic going down that way.
We pulled up on the West Side Highway.  We were
on West Street.  Where we parked I believe was
Vesey Street.  I probably will tell you about
J. BREEN 3
that later on.  I'm almost positive it was Vesey
Street where we parked our rig.
          As we parked there, one of the other
trucks I noticed that was there was 25 Truck.  I
believe Joe Collins from 25 Truck.  I believe
that was who he was.  He was riding extra for 25.
I heard he was supposed to go to a detail to 76
and 22.
          I was just talking to one of the
details that's working here today.  He's from 25.
He said Joe Collins was riding extra.  He came
over to our rig, and he was asking for a mask,
and he was given our chauffeur's mask.
          Myself, Lieutenant Nichols, Jeff
Johnson, Pat Carey and Ruben Correa were walking
down West Side to West Street underneath the
pedestrian bridge.  We were walking towards the
Marriott Hotel.  I was told by Lieutenant Nichols
that dispatch called him over the radio and we
were told to report to the Marriott Hotel, the
old Vista Hotel, which is Three World Trade
Center.
          As we were walking underneath, we
didn't see any bodies falling out.  We did see
J. BREEN 4
one body on the ground, and that's when the
lieutenant told us to walk as far away from the
building as we could and just to keep our heads
up for any falling bodies.
          We walked into the lobby of the
Marriott.  The only other company I saw that I
knew down there at the time that I know was 47
Engine.  The chief that was working there that
morning, I wish I knew who he was -- I really
don't know -- at the command center.  I really
don't know what his name was, but he was telling
us to -- the engines to line up on one side and
the trucks on the other side.
          We were told first we were going to go
into the south tower.  Then there was a report of
people stuck or possible hotel guests still up in
the Marriott.  A couple of units were told to go
up there.
          The companies I do know that went up
there with us is 74 Engine, 54 Engine, 11 Truck
and I believe, but I am not positive, 23 Engine.
We were told to go up to the 22nd floor.  We took
the elevator up to the 18th floor.  We walked up
four flights of stairs to the top floor.
J. BREEN 5
          Up on the top floor, it was a pool,
spa, gym equipment, saunas.  It was just a
workout area and a spa area with a couple of
office spaces.  We did see part of -- I didn't
see it, but Jeff Johnson told me later on he did
see part of the landing gear actually fell right
through the roof and it was in one of the
Jacuzzis in another room.
          There was nobody up there.  We did a
search up there.  There was no fire up there
either, no bodies to report.  We were going to
take an elevator down.  I don't believe there was
an elevator on 22.  We walked down one flight.
          We went down the south stairwell.  We
walked it down one flight to the 21st floor.  We
went to the elevator, which is more -- from the
south stairwell, we walked a little bit north
down the hallway, waiting for the elevator.
There was about 20 of us.  Again, this was 54
Engine, 74, 11 Truck and I believe 23 Engine.
          As we were waiting for the elevator to
take us down, it was running a little too slow or
stuck on one of the floors.  My lieutenant,
Lieutenant Nichols, said we're better off walking
J. BREEN 6
down.  We were going to go down I believe to the
lobby, and I think we were going to go to the
south tower, which is I believe connected,
somehow connected to the Marriott.
          We started walking down the hallway
towards the south stairwell.  It was my company
that was leading the way.  Pat Carey I believe
was in front, Jeff Johnson, Lieutenant Nichols,
myself, Ruben Correa, then the other companies.
          As we were walking, that's when the
south tower came down.  Pretty much we just stood
where we were.  There was nowhere we could go.
We were just stuck in this hallway.
          Pretty much when all was said and done,
we gathered ourselves.  We were doing a head
count as far as my company, and we noticed that
we were calling for Ruben and Ruben was behind me
in the hallway.  Him and the other companies were
behind us.  I was about ten feet away in the
hallway from being one of the missing.  As far as
we turned around and we looked, that side of the
hallway was all covered in debris and rubble.
All the lights were out.  There were no lights.
We had to use flashlights.
J. BREEN 7
          So it was just basically four of us
that got out.  The chauffeur, by the way, was
back at the rig.  The chauffeur did not go with
us.  He was back at the rig.  That was Mike
Shagi.  I forgot to mention that earlier.
          So pretty much at this point it was the
three companies I just mentioned and Ruben Correa
that was trapped.  It was about 16 guys, roughly.
There was about four of us that were still on
that floor.
          We called a mayday.  We couldn't hear
anything.  Nobody responded.  We didn't know what
was going on.  We didn't even know that the whole
building came down.  We called a mayday.  We
couldn't hear anything.  However, we did hear one
mayday, and I believe it was from 4 Truck, one of
the members from 4 Truck.  His mayday was given.
He didn't know what floor he was on.  He was just
saying that he was with 4 Truck, he was running
out of air, please come get him.
          We couldn't do anything at that point.
We just were trying to get out to guys that we
had.  We were trying to find a void.  We started
moving some of the rubble pieces.  We couldn't
J. BREEN 8
find anything and started yelling.  We called for
guys' names and tried to listen for any names.
We couldn't hear anything.
          We walked a floor down below, which is
the 20th floor, and there was more rubble that
way.  Basically we saw, okay, we're trapped
inside of all this debris.  There were two floors
of rubble.  My lieutenant made the decision at
that point for us we have to get out, try to get
some help, especially for the guys trapped and
for the guy who was calling the mayday for 4
Truck.
          We went down the south stairwell.  We
met up with members from 12 Truck, and there were
some other members.  I don't remember who they
were.  When we went down, there were about ten
members in all that we met up with.
          We got down to about the sixth floor.
They were in one of the hotel suites.  I believe
it was the presidential suite.  I heard later on
that's what it was.  This was on the sixth floor.
I heard it was looking out -- later on Jeff
Johnson -- I'm only going by what he said.  I
don't know what we were looking at outside this
J. BREEN 9
suite.  There was a whole section of the building
that was gone.  I was told later on that that was
West Street that it was out looking over.
          Basically the bottom line was we were
going to lower ourselves down by rope because we
heard from 12 Truck that they couldn't go any
further down the stairwell.  This is on the sixth
floor of the south stairwell we went down.  They
were going to lower themselves by rope.
          I told them we passed some roof rope on
the way down.  A couple guys went up to get it.
We even breached a wall, and me and Pat Carey
were tying off two and a half lengths.  We were
going to even use some of the rollups to lower
ourselves down.
          My officer said this is just too
dangerous, it's too unstable to do this.  He made
the decision to try to do something.  Him and the
senior man felt that they could do something as
far as maybe there's a way to get down the
stairwell that we overlooked.
          It was a good thing we did, because
when we went down the stairwell, we went down
about a floor or a half landing, and Jeff Johnson
J. BREEN 10
hopped over one of the railings, started moving
sheetrock.  It was just lightweight sheetrock.
It wasn't nothing heavy-duty or extra heavy or
anything like that.  It was just basic
lightweight sheetrock.  He started moving it out
of the way.
          He went down to about the fifth or the
fourth floor landing or the fourth floor.  He
yelled back up that there were some people down
there.  There were some civilians.  We were later
on told that they worked with The New York Times
or Time magazine.  We still don't know what it
was.  There were five businessmen, all men.  To
this day I still don't even know who they are.  I
tried to contact the, and tried through New York
Times, but I got no response.
          Basically everybody else at that point
started following us down, just started coming
one after another, started going down the
stairwell.
          I heard later on -- in fact, I went to
his memorial service.  I heard a couple of guys
from 12 Truck made the decision to go back up and
see if they could help out the mayday from 4
J. BREEN 11
Truck.  I heard one of them was Mike Mullan, the
lieutenant, and I think a rotating fireman.  I
wish I knew his name, but I don't.  But I heard
that they made the decision to go back up to try
to help out the mayday.
          We made our way down to about the third
floor, the rest of us.  It was maybe about ten in
all, probably about like four of us from 74 and
maybe six from 12 truck and a few others from --
I don't know what other company it was.  I still
don't know to this day.
          We got down to about the third floor
with also the five businessmen.  I think we were
facing east at that point.  I would say we were
facing east or maybe north.  I'm just looking at
the way the building was shaped right here.  It
might have been the north section of the
building, facing north or east, either way.
          When we got down there, Jeff Johnson
and Pat Carey hopped out.  There was more or less
like a little patio about half a story down that
they hopped out on.  There was a lightweight beam
that they situated where we could get these
civilians down.
J. BREEN 12
          Either way, you could slide down this
beam or you could go down the other half landing
and hop over.  This is as far as we can go,
because this whole section of the third floor was
still open like that.  This was a big opening to
get outside.
          I was staying back.  I wanted to feel
like I was doing something.  I was helping out
these civilians, making sure that they got down
the beam, that they slid down the beam okay.
          It got to a point where everybody was
starting to get out.  It was me, two more
civilians left and maybe two guys I believe from
12 Truck that were still in there waiting to get
out, and that's when the north tower started to
come down.  We just kind of stood and braced
where we were.
          One of the civilians with me was about
80 years old.  As the building was coming down, I
was yelling to see if he was still there.  He
said he was.  I held his hand just to make sure
we were together in case we were trapped.
          When the dust settled, the hole was
open and we were lucky enough that that happened.
J. BREEN 13
Everybody was pretty much scattered all over the
place.  My lieutenant was in front of me.  That
half landing or patio that he was on where the
beam was situated, he was down there.  He was a
little bit trapped, but he was able to get out.
There was all kinds of rubble all around him.  He
was very lucky that he was alive.  It was sort of
like a bunker that he was in.  It was just all
debris around him.  He was able to squeeze his
way out of that.
          Two of the brothers from 12 Truck, they
were okay, and the two civilians were okay.  I
heard Jeff Johnson yelling -- I found out later
on that he had gone to the second floor.  There
was a way to get in there.  There was some kind
of a sliding door.
          He had gone around a corner of the
building, which I believe would have been the
south side or possibly the east side of the
building.  I'm really not positive.  He had
gotten down to the second floor and hid behind a
beam.  He was with three of the civilians in that
hallway.
          Pat Carey, he was yelling for Pat.  I
J. BREEN 14
didn't know where Pat was either.  I thought Pat
was gone.  Somehow he had gotten down to the
second floor, but he lost contact with us.  He
didn't have a radio.  We had lost him.  I thought
he was gone.
          I got out.  I was helping the civilians
down.  Once we got out, Lieutenant Nichols got
himself out.  At that point I was yelling for
Pat.  I was yelling and yelling.  At this point
we knew we couldn't even do a mayday.  We were
just trying to get ourselves out.  Myself and the
lieutenant and the two other guys from 12 Truck,
we helped the two civilians out.  We walked them
out.
          By the way, at this point I don't know
what happened to the other members.  I think and
I hoped that they did -- I'm pretty sure that
they did because I met up with 12 Truck.  All of
their guys got out.  I heard later on that the
only guys that didn't get out -- all the guys
that survived the first collapse, the only ones
that didn't get out was Mike Mullan, the officer,
and the rotator that went up to respond to the
mayday.  I heard later on that they got out.
J. BREEN 15
Somehow they went the wrong way.
          So the only ones at that point that I
saw visibly get out was myself, Lieutenant
Nichols, the two civilians and then the two guys
from 12 Truck.  Jeff Johnson, I thought he had
gone around another direction and got the three
civilians out another way, because I did hear his
voice but I heard he was okay.
          Although he was on the second floor, I
didn't know at the time he was where he was.  But
he was pretty much stuck on the second floor.  I
thought he had gone out through another section
of the building and walked out.
          That's how confusing it was.  Everybody
pretty much was just trying to get out and walk
their own way.  As far as me, I heard Jeff's
voice, and the lieutenant said he was okay.  So I
knew Jeff enough to be a senior man, I knew he
was okay.  The only ones that I was really
worried about at that point that I knew was
missing was Pat Carey.  So I yelled and called
his name.
          We couldn't do anything at that point,
so we started walking out.  I believe we were in
J. BREEN 16
the atrium?  Is this called the atrium?
     Q.   I'm not sure.
     A.   I believe we were walking in the
atrium.  I think we were walking towards Two
World Trade Center.  The south tower, I think we
were walking pretty much among the rubble and
everything there.  I think we got out and walked
out on Liberty Street.
          As we were walking among the debris of
the fallen building, a couple guys from rescue
came over.  They helped us with the two
civilians.  I told them that there were missing
members.  I pointed to the Marriott.  I told them
basically that on the 21st floor, it was the
first collapse.
          We had the three companies plus Reuben,
where they were trapped.  But it was useless by
that point because the floor wasn't even there.
There was only about four stories to that
building left.
          The other one I talked about was Pat
Carey.  I said I saw him last on the third floor
of the Marriott.  It ended up that Pat got out
okay.  He was trapped on the second floor.  He
J. BREEN 17
was actually separated from Jeff and everybody
else, and he actually jumped out, found an
opening and jumped out, and actually fractured
his cocyx bone and has several herniated disks.
          Jeff Johnson made it out too.  Although
I didn't know at the time, I thought he was out,
but he was still stuck on the second floor with
the three civilians.  He made his way out another
way.  They kind of finagled their way down and
they got out okay.
          From there, me and the lieutenant
basically just walked towards the park.  What's
the name of that park?  Battery Park.  That's
where I met Jeff.  Basically we were calling for
Mike Shagi.  We found out later on when he was
running he was getting short breath and
everything like that, and he went to the hospital
for some air, to be treated.  We found out he was
okay later on.
          As I mentioned before, we were on Vesey
Street when we were out where the park was.  We
were walking on some of the south streets, I
guess Albany Street or Carlisle, one of those
streets.  We kind of made our way up Trinity or
J. BREEN 18
Church, and then we kind of made our way down to
Vesey.  That's when we found our rig over there.
Our rig was parked on Vesey.
          I still don't know all the companies
that were with us that we ran into in after the
second collapse.  But as far as I know, the
companies that we did meet up with was 11 Truck,
54 Engine and I'm pretty sure it was 23 Engine.
     Q.   That's it, John?
     A.   That's it.
     Q.   Thanks for all your help, John.
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time now is 3:38,
     and this concludes the interview.
File No. 9110322
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER JOSEPH GALASSO
   Interview Date:  December 12, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
J. GALASSO 2
          CHIEF KING:  Today's date is December
     12th, 2001.  The time is 1607 hours.  This
     is Battalion Chief Stephen King, Safety
     Battalion, FDNY.  I'm conducting an
     interview with the following individual,
     Firefighter Sixth Grade Joseph Galasso from
     Engine 212, who was the backup on September
     11th.  This interview is regarding the
     events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Okay, Joe, you can start whenever you
want.
     A.   After the first plane hit, we were
here, actually.  We could see the towers actually
from here.  So after the first plane hit, we saw
it on the news.  So we came up here to look out
the window, and we saw it.  We watched the second
plane hit.  Just as the second plane hit, that's
when we received the alarm.
          We were going there.  On the way there,
we hit a little traffic.  We were going to turn
onto the Manhattan Bridge but instead we were
told to take the Brooklyn Bridge.  So we had to
back up.  We were on our way to get on the
Brooklyn Bridge.
J. GALASSO 3
          We drove down I'm not sure which
street.  I think we came down Liberty.  We parked
on Liberty.  We got out.  We grabbed our rollups,
we grabbed our spare cylinders.  I remember
walking past 10 and 10's quarters.
          At that point Lieutenant Brosnan told
us to keep walking down Liberty.  We went into
one of the buildings on Liberty to go through,
because we saw debris falling.  We didn't know
what was falling.  It looked like debris.  So to
be safe, for our safety, the lieutenant brought
us through another building with one of their
attendants.
     Q.   Were both towers hit at this point in
time?
     A.   Both towers were hit, because we
watched the second tower hit over here.  When the
second tower was hit, that's when we got the
alarm.
          So we went through a building, and we
came out on -- I don't know exactly the street,
but it was where that pedestrian walkway is to go
to the Financial Center.  We came out over there.
We went two at a time, because debris was still
J. GALASSO 4
falling.  We stood underneath the walkway for
protection.
          Then we went into the hotel.  I guess
that's the Marriott Hotel.  I saw a couple
different companies there.  238 was there, and a
couple other firemen were there that I didn't
know.  We were there, and that's when the
lieutenant went to talk to a chief.  He came back
and told us we were going to the 74th floor.  I
don't know which tower, to be sure.  I don't
know.  He just said the 74th floor.
          At that time we got all our stuff.  We
made one of I guess the clerks of the hotel show
us the way into the concourse level.  We got into
the concourse level.  We walked maybe about 100
feet, 200 feet.  The lieutenant said, "Take a
break here for a second, I've got to go ask to
find another stairwell."
          At that point we put our stuff down.
In a matter of seconds after that -- at this
point when we came in, there were people getting
evacuated.  I guess there were cops down there
and stuff like that.  But there were all
pedestrians coming out.  They were pretty calm.
J. GALASSO 5
I was shocked to see how calm these people were.
          As we got in there, like I said, the
lieutenant walked away for a second to find a
stairwell, told us to wait.  At that point, not
even a few seconds later, the lights went out and
you heard -- it sounded like a waterfall almost.
You just saw people running.  The lights went
out, and it got dark.  You just saw parts of
buildings coming down.
          We ran and made a left.  There's like a
little bend.  We made a left and went into a
doorway.  At that point I just sat there and
waited and held my helmet.  It just stopped.
Everything was dark and people were screaming.
Everybody stopped screaming.  You couldn't see
anything.  It was all dark, dusty.
          Somebody yelled, "Just stay calm.
There's firemen here.  Stay with the firemen." So
at that point we all regrouped.  We were yelling,
"212, 212."  I think there were five of us or six
of us at that point.  We all regrouped.  We found
each other.  We put our flashlights on.
          One of the members here, Firefighter
Picciano, asked if anybody knew a way out:  "Does
J. GALASSO 6
anybody work here?  Does anybody know a way out?"
There was a maintenance man actually there.  He
saw a store, and he said, "I know a way out of
here."  So we said, "Okay, hold onto us.  We'll
lead with the flashlights."
          At that point there were just people
that were grabbing onto my arms, grabbing
everybody else.  I was holding onto one of the
other firemen just to find a way out.  So at that
point this maintenance man -- I still don't know
who he was -- led us to an exit.
          Maybe three of us took a bunch of
people to one exit, which there were escalators
going up.  I think that let you out on Vesey.  We
led a whole bunch of people out the escalator.
Two or three other firemen from the company went
to the left with another individual, and they
found another doorway, opened it up and led the
people out that way.  So we led all these people
out.
          Sorry, I need to backtrack.  Before we
went back into the building, ESU cops were
telling us there are reports of a third and
fourth plane coming.  They're leaving, we're
J. GALASSO 7
walking in, and they're yelling there's reports
of a third and fourth plane.
          I guess when the first building came
down I actually thought it was another plane hit
at that time.  I didn't know the building came
down.
          We led the people out.  We cleared
everybody out that was with us.  At that point we
went back in to look for more people just to see
if there were any more people there.  We searched
around.  We walked around, went down to the PATH
train to see if anybody was down there.  That was
clear.  At this point Engine 212 was there, a
couple of guys had FBI jackets on, there were
maybe about two or three, and I think a couple of
cops were there.
          We were searching around, searching.
We backtracked a little bit from where we came
from.  At that point there was a little fire
there.  One of the guys tried to put it out with
one of the house lines, but there was no
pressure.  It was dead.  So we just left that.
          I don't know who yelled, but somebody
yelled, "We see somebody.  There's somebody
J. GALASSO 8
underneath a bunch of debris."  We pulled all the
debris off.  He had this round face that was all
full of blood.  He was struggling to breathe at
this point.  Of course he was like 250, 260
pounds, 300 pounds.
          We found a chair, a regular chair.  We
put him on the chair.  Between the time when the
first building came down, it felt like hours but
we were in there for a while.  At that point we
put him on the chair.  We took turns carrying him
out.
          At this point you couldn't really
hearing anything on the radio.  It was like in
and out, in and out.  I remember somebody yelling
"We've all got to get out.  We've all got to get
out."  They're saying, "Everybody get out of the
building."
          So at that point we put the guy in the
chair and took turns carrying him out.  We went
out like a little bit of steps to the landing and
a little bit of steps and came out on Vesey.
Five World Trade we came out of.
          I can remember inside the hallway was
the McDonald's sign.  On top it said the mall.
J. GALASSO 9
We came out of there.  There was just white
debris, white powder everywhere.
          There was a rig right across the
street.  I don't remember what company it was.
There was a mail truck right across the street,
because I guess the post office was there.
          At that point -- again, not even -- I
would say about 40 seconds, we get to the middle
of the street with this individual, and you heard
like a loud "rrrrr."  Everything started shaking.
We thought it was another plane.
          What we did, we all separated.  Me and
two other guys, Walker and Murphy, we went back
to the building.  Picciano and Brosnan ran away
from the building.  At that point we just knelt
down in the doorway.  We knelt down, and I held
on.
          The pressure from the collapse, I
guess, it was like a heavy snowstorm when you're
trying to walk and you're trying to push and
fight it.  You try to fight it, and it just
pushed us all back.  I remember just letting go
of Walker.
          At that point, to tell you the truth, I
J. GALASSO 10
thought I was dead, because I was all by myself
now.  This whole time I was I guess, not happy,
but I felt safe because we were all together the
whole time.  At this point I was by myself, and
it was pitch dark.  I had the dirt in my mouth
and everything.
          I thought I got blown back into the
building, so I started yelling, "Walker and 212,
anybody."  Finally he acknowledged.  He happened
to be right next to me and I didn't know it.
          At that point you couldn't see
anything.  I put my mask on at that point.  Then
we regrouped.  Me, Walker and Murphy, we all
regrouped, the three of us.  At that point we
thought we had lost the lieutenant.  We thought
we had lost Picciano and Brosnan, because they
went the other way.
          We came out of Five World Trade.  At
that point then it was just like an eerie quiet.
Everything was quiet.  We couldn't even find
those FBI guys that were with us or the cops that
were with us.
          It was an eerie quiet.  We finally saw
daylight.  We saw the sun and said let's walk.
J. GALASSO 11
We walked and walked up West Broadway.  I
remember that the rig was on fire at that point,
and the postal truck was on fire.  There were
little fires everywhere.  We were just trying to
climb over like I beams and stuff.
          We walked to West Broadway, and we just
kept walking.  At that time we were saying to
ourselves let's just get as far away as we could.
If these buildings come down, they're going to
take out a couple of blocks.  We still didn't
know the buildings came down at that point.
          We walked to Duane Street, and
somebody -- I think it was a cop -- told us
there's a firehouse right here.  We went and made
a right, and it was Engine 7.  At that point we
went there.  From there we just sat there and
waited.  That's when the ambulance came and took
us all in.
          We finally met up with the other two,
Picciano and Brosnan.  They wound up walking
there.  Somehow some way they walked there.  We
all met up, and that's when we went in the
ambulance to Forest Hills.
     Q.   Anybody else you remember seeing there?
J. GALASSO 12
     A.   It's weird, I remember seeing a kid I
went to parochial school with that I graduated
with, James Pappageorge, in the hotel.  I
remember saying hello.  I don't know what company
he's from.  I remember saying hello to him.  The
lieutenant was saying, "Come on, let's go."  We
went into the concourse, and I never saw him
after that.  That's the only guy I can remember.
          I don't know the guys' names from 238,
but they're in the same area over here so I
recognized a couple of them.  I don't know which
way they went either.  Pappageorge specifically,
I know him because we said hello to each other
because we went to school together.  I don't know
which way they went.  All I know is that we
got -- somebody was with us because everywhere we
walked was the right place.
     Q.   Anything else, Joe?
     A.   That's about it.
          CHIEF KING:  The time is 1620 hours,
     and this interview is concluded.
File No. 9110323
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER JAMES MURPHY
   Interview Date:  December 12, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
J. MURPHY 2
          CHIEF KING:  Today's date is December
     12th, 2001.  The time is 1649 hours.  This
     is Battalion Chief Stephen King, Safety
     Battalion, FDNY.  I am conducting an
     interview with the following individual,
     firefighter second grade James MURPHY from
     Engine Company 212.  This interview is
     concerning the events of September 11th,
     2001.
     Q.   Jim, you can start talking whenever
you'd like.
     A.   The first thing I remember is hearing
this was a second alarm over the voice system.
Second alarm, World Trade Center, it came over.
We were in the kitchen.  We said let's turn on
the TV and see if there's anything, basically,
because I worked in the city, sometimes something
like the World Trade Center will make the TV.
          So we turned on the TV, and they didn't
have it yet on New York 1.  About maybe 30
seconds into it, they had it.  They just set it
up.  The anchor said, "We just got word that
there's a fire in the World Trade Center, and
we'll go to a camera" I think from the Empire
J. MURPHY 3
State Building.
          They did that, and you could see the
extent of the fire on the World Trade Center, a
huge hole.  Nobody knew what it was.  We didn't
know if it was a plane yet or anything.
Everybody in the kitchen was just like, oh, my
God.
          Then the guy on the news got a call
from somebody who was on the West Side Highway, I
think, and he said that a big tire came down and
landed on a car in front of him or something like
that.  You think it's a plane, and then you see
the hole in it and you still don't think it's a
747 or 767.  You still think it's like a Piper
Cub.  I was just thinking that from the hole, it
might have been packed with explosives.
          After that I ran up to the roof on the
third floor with me and Eric Bernsten.  We were
watching it.  We could see it from here.  We have
an unobstructed view.  The other guys came up
too.  All six of us were on the roof.
          We were sitting around looking at it,
and I remember one guy saying, "You're going to
earn your pay today, guys."  I just remember
J. MURPHY 4
that.  Then we saw the second one come up.  It
looked like it was coming up the East River from
here.
          I guess it was coming from the south.
I thought it banked over the East River, which is
what it looked like.  I thought it made a left
over the East River and went right into it going
from east to west.  But as it turns out, it came
from the south.  Then we saw it just go right
into the building and explode.
          I remember talking to Eric.  I remember
Eric saying something, "Oh, my God, there's
another plane."  I was saying to him, "That plane
is closer to us.  It's really not a big plane
going towards the building."  Two seconds later
it rammed into the building.  You don't expect
it.  We just freaked.
          About a minute after that we got the
call to go.  I guess it was a minute or so.  We
shot down Tenth, down Park Avenue.  We rode on
the dividers because traffic -- we rode in
between the highway where they parked the cars,
we rode up there, over those until we got
basically to where the Gowanus -- basically to
J. MURPHY 5
around 207, 101.  We made the turn to go over the
Manhattan Bridge by accident.  We figured out it
was an accident.  We backed out and went over to
the Brooklyn Bridge.
          Two guys jumped on the back.  I don't
know who they were.  Somebody just told me.  One
of the guys on the rig said, "Two guys just
jumped on the back."  So I never saw them jump
on, but we stopped, let them jump on, and we went
over the bridge.
          That was it.  We got over to the other
side, and we went down Broadway.  We made a right
on Liberty.  We pulled up, I guess it was like 20
feet from Church Street and Liberty.  We were
about maybe 20 feet or 50 feet.  We were close to
Church Street, right by a fruit stand, because I
couldn't get out of the rig, we had to pull up.
          After that we got out.  We grabbed our
hose, and we went straight down Liberty Street.
I just remember looking up and seeing the
building on fire.  It seemed really high.  You
could hear it a little bit, and you couldn't hear
anything else except the fire.  It was a
beautiful day out.
J. MURPHY 6
          There were papers all over the place
and the smoke and everything, but the smoke
wasn't on our level at all.  There was nobody
else around.
          We walked down Liberty Street.  We
walked past 10's quarters.  We ran into a guy, he
looked like -- I don't know what he looked like.
He had a white shirt on.  He had a helmet on, not
a fireman's helmet.  I think I can remember this
right.  He said, "Follow me.  I can take you
through.  There's stuff falling from the
building."
          He took us through the Deutsche Bank
building like through the middle of it.  It was
down whatever street that is where 10's on.  We
went through it, and we came out another street
underneath that.  I'm not sure.  It's Greenwich
Street or something like that.  Then we went back
onto Liberty Street.
          The guy warned us, he said there's body
parts all over the place.  There were body parts
everywhere, like all over, body parts and all
sorts of chunks of debris.  For a second I
thought were part of the plane.  When I think
J. MURPHY 7
back on it, they could be part of the building
too, because it was all aluminum.
          There was scaffolding.  We were walking
under scaffolding until we got to West Street.
Once we got on West Street, we got under the
bridge that crosses West Street, and we waited to
get in.  The lieutenant got in first.  That's all
I know.
          I was looking up, making sure all the
stuff falling down wasn't going to hit me before
I ran in.  I didn't see anybody jumping from the
south tower, but I saw things coming out of the
north tower, which I don't know what it was.  It
was falling straight down.  I just knew it wasn't
going to hit me.
          As soon as I saw a big piece of like
aluminum hit the ground, I didn't see anything
else I just ran into the building.  I just walked
as fast as I could underneath the overpass to the
Marriott.
          Now I'm in the Marriott.  There was two
guys, I guess they were managers or something in
the restaurant, running around.  I grabbed one of
them.  They got us water.  I asked them if I
J. MURPHY 8
could get some water, and they did.  They came
out with water, like glass bottles of water and a
big jug of water.
          There were a bunch of units inside the
hotel.  I only knew two of them.  I knew 22
Truck.  I saw them because I'm assigned to 220.
I knew 22 Truck from uptown because when I was on
rotation I spent a year in 76 Engine and they're
with 22 Truck.  I knew a couple guys there, but I
just said hi to them.  I just waved to
acknowledge them because everything was so crazy.
          After like five minutes -- it seemed we
were there for a little while.  We finally
went -- we were inside the hotel, and we went
north inside the lobby of the hotel.  Somehow
indoors we got from the hotel into the lobby of
the north tower.  We didn't miss a beat.  We
walked straight from the hotel into the lobby and
straight through the revolving doors.  They were
like pushed open so you didn't have to revolve
around, you could just walk straight through.
          So we walked in there, and there were a
bunch of civilians.  I don't know where they were
coming from, but they were coming and walking the
J. MURPHY 9
same way we were walking.  The sprinkler systems
were going, and everything was wet, the sprinkler
systems worked fine, the big system.
          We just kept walking in that corridor,
the mall corridor, until we got almost to like an
intersection in the mall corridor.  We were in
the corridor running west to east.  That's the
way we were walking, west to east.
          Right before we got to a corridor
running south to north is where we stopped.
Lieutenant Brosnan said, "Let me go see if we can
find a way up."  We were supposed to go to the
74th floor or something like that.
          We waited there right on the corner of
the mall, right on the corner where the two
sections met, the two mall sections.  We were on
the north corner of that.  That's when 30 seconds
after the lieutenant left you could hear the
noise.
          I was looking down towards West Street,
because that's where it seemed that it was coming
from.  You just heard -- I thought it was a third
plane that hit, because when we were going in
there was a couple of cops.  When we made the
J. MURPHY 10
right onto Liberty, they said, "Be careful, guys,
there's a third plane heading in."  So that's
what I thought it was.
          It just seemed like a long time that it
was -- it didn't seem like an explosion.  It was
like boom, boom, and then just got louder and
louder.  It got louder and louder, and then all
of a sudden I was looking out onto West Street
and the whole area turned from gray to black in a
hurry.
          All the debris just pushed through all
those doors, and all the people were falling
down.  The wind was just -- you could see it
coming.  People were screaming and falling down.
Before the lights got totally black, I ran east a
couple feet and made the left and ducked into
that first store, not in the store but in a
little niche where the display window was and
where the corner -- what do you call it?  Where
the corner of the store was, where the west to
east and the south to north corridors met.  So it
was that corner store.
          For some reason there was like a
foot -- you could go in about a foot before the
J. MURPHY 11
glass, and I just curled into a ball and just
waited for everything to stop.
          Then it stopped.  Then I got up and it
was pitch-black.  I turned on my flashlight.
Everybody else turned on their flashlights.  We
were all right around each other.  We couldn't
have been within ten feet of each other.  We were
all right there.  We were all on the ground.
          We got up and we organized.  Then we
just started looking for somebody.  I think we
started looking for -- we just started saying,
"Does anybody know how to get out of here," or
something like that.  I forget what words we
used.
          We found a guy, a maintenance guy, with
a flashlight.  I'm familiar with the corridors
over there because I take the train in three days
a week.  But I don't get out on the north side; I
always get out on the Liberty Street side,
because I go to school on Cortlandt.  So I knew
there were exits on both ends, but I never get
out on the north side.
          Anyway, we found this guy.  We grabbed
him.  We put him in front of us.  We had our
J. MURPHY 12
flashlights.  I remember him saying if you find
the Duane Reade, there's an exit by the Duane
Reade.  We never found the Duane Reade, but we
were walking.
          People were grabbing onto us.  We were
picking up people, because they were still --
after it was black, there was screaming in the
beginning and we were shouting.  We were saying
"Don't worry, we're with the Fire Department.
Everybody is going to get out."  I remember
saying stuff like that, which is pretty wild,
actually.  We were just as scared as anybody
else.  We were just victims too.
          Basically the only difference between
us and the victims is we had flashlights.  It was
hard to breathe, but you knew you could breathe.
The first thing I did was grab my mask.  I put it
on, and then I realized that you could breathe
without it.  It was very, very dusty in there.
You couldn't see with the flashlight in the
beginning more than three or four feet.  But you
could see everybody's flashlight because they
would glow in the beginning.  Then it gradually
settled down.
J. MURPHY 13
          We started walking north.  I remember
seeing big columns.  We walked past big columns.
We ran into a store -- I don't know how far we
were, maybe 60, maybe 100 yards, and we ran into
a watch store.  That's what I remember seeing,
watches.  It might have been a jewelry store or
whatever.  The guy said, "Oh, this is the watch
store.  I know where this is."  He said, "The
exit's this way.  Keep going straight."
          We went straight, and we ran into a --
what it was was a stairwell and like a wall.  One
said  handicap exit.  The maintenance guy, I was
talking to him.  He said, "The exit's right up
here."  There was a little confusion.  Somebody
else in the crowd said, "The exit's that way."
What it was was there were two exits.
          Me and Eric Bernsten went up to the one
on Vesey Street.  It was still black, and you
couldn't see.  When we found the doors, we opened
them up and we knew it was outside.  When you got
out there and you opened the doors, you could see
it was like it's nighttime but you know you're
outside.
          We took a bunch of guys out with us.
J. MURPHY 14
We went back down.  The other guys were going the
other way, which was another way.  They were
going to some kind of exit that came out on
Church Street.  Either way, we all got rid of
people on both exits.
          After that it started clearing up a
little bit.  A couple other rescuers started
coming.  I don't know who they were.  I remember
one guy saying 30 stories of the south tower
collapsed.  Maybe that's what it looked like.
That was the first time I realized it wasn't a
second plane that hit.
          Some other guys were coming down, like
rescuers.  They were coming down.  Somehow they
went back in.  I don't know who.  We wound up
saying we've got to go back in and see if there's
anybody else there.  We were basically looking
for our lieutenant who was lost.  We said we've
got to go back in and do a search.
          We went back in.  I don't know how we
hooked up with these guys again.  Maybe they came
back down to see the way they brought the guys
out.  But we hooked up with them.  A couple of
other rescue guys came in.  I was standing at the
J. MURPHY 15
top of the PATH train looking down at that long
stairwell and saying to myself I don't even know
if I should go down there because it's so deep
down there.
          I've been down there a few times.  My
brother takes the PATH train.  I met him in the
bars.  There's bars down at the lower levels.  I
started getting nervous.  I started thinking that
we shouldn't be here.
          A couple of guys came in and went down.
I don't know they were, guys in white shirts.
They were some kind of rescue people.  I don't
know if they were Port Authority or whoever they
were.  They walked down.  I was like, guys, I
don't know if it's the best thing to do to go
down there.  They were like, "We're going down."
          So I went with them.  They went down
there, and I stood by the stairs, at the bottom
of the stairs.  When they came back I said, "Did
you find anybody?  Do you need any help?"  They
said no.  They didn't find anybody.  They were
leaving the place, and I boogied up the stairs,
because I was getting spooked down there.
          I got back upstairs, and I ran into
J. MURPHY 16
Eric again.  He had found a line.  He had found a
hose line.  At this point you could see there was
a collapse.  Everything got a bit lighter because
wherever we exited was glowing, so we knew the
exit was there.  There was a blue glow, almost
like a fluorescent glow.  You could see down the
corridor.
          Right where we were almost when the
first building collapsed, there was a huge
collapse, a big wall of stuff, and it was on
fire.  Eric found a house line, and he grabbed
the house line and he was saying, "Let's pull
it."  We pulled it over, and we got caught up on
some stuff, he came back, helped me pull it out.
I went to turn the wheel of the gauge and there
was no pressure.  There was water in it, but you
could squeeze it closed.
          About that time, that's when somebody
said that there's a body -- "I've got somebody
over here."  That was close to where the collapse
was, past the Coach store.  That's where the
house line came out; it was close to the Coach
store.
          By the time I got over there, there
J. MURPHY 17
were three guys putting him in a chair.  There
were FBI guys down there at this point.  They had
come down, and they had told us -- they might
have been down there for like five minutes.  I'm
not sure exactly when they said this, but they
came in and they said, "It's your show, guys.
You just tell us what to do."  That's what I
remember.
          There was least three, maybe four of
them.  I remember telling them, "The only thing
you can do right now" -- they all had
flashlights -- "is to stand like 50 feet apart
towards the stairwell with the flashlights,"
because it was starting to bank down because of
the smoke.  The dust had cleared a lot, but the
smoke was starting to bank down again and I was
getting really nervous.
          These guys picked the guy up in the
chair, and they started walking with him.  His
head was flopping all over the place, so I
grabbed his head.  It was a long walk.  It was at
least 100 yards -- it seemed that way, because it
was black -- to the stairwell.  So we switched
up.  I switched and grabbed one of the legs.  One
J. MURPHY 18
of the FBI guys was helping us.  We got him up
the stairs.  We got him out on Vesey Street.
          We couldn't have walked more than like
15 steps when the second tower came down.
Everybody just ran for their lives.  Really
that's exactly what happened.  All of a sudden
there was blue out and then it just got a shade
darker and the noise and then it got darker and
darker and darker.  The noise was getting louder,
and there was stuff falling.
          Eric and Vinnie ran out into the
street, and me, Danny Walker and Joe Galasso ran
back towards building number five, where we came
from.  We tried to get in the building.  I'm not
sure if Danny Walker got in the building and was
able to stay in there.
          I stepped in about two steps and I
tried to push myself in, and the wind pressure
from the falling building pushed me, knocked me
off my feet backwards.  I wound up in the street.
I didn't even know it was the street at the time.
It was actually a good thing, because I wound up
under the overhang.
          Then everything stopped.  We got up.  I
J. MURPHY 19
guess we were shocked.  I didn't know if we were
outside or inside.  You couldn't see a thing.
You couldn't really breathe without your mask.  I
guess you would have lived.  But I don't know if
you would have been able to maintain your
consciousness.
          There was mud in my mouth about a
quarter of an inch think.  I just pulled it out
in my hand, and I swallowed a whole bunch of it.
I put my mask on.  There was more dirt in the
mask that blew into my face.
          We regrouped.  We were right around
each other, me, Joe and Danny Walker.  We
couldn't move.  The first time I knew I was
outside was when I basically almost ran into one
of the flowerpots out there on Vesey Street.  You
could barely move, for at least five minutes.
You couldn't move because you didn't know where
you were, what you were stepping on, where you
were going.
          Then you could see little fires, like
paper fires.  Then I saw the lights of a rig on
Vesey Street that were blinking, the bottom
lights.  I knew that was the street.  We walked
J. MURPHY 20
towards that.  I thought the best thing to do was
to head west into the wind so that we could get
out of the smoke.
          (Interruption.)
     A.   You could feel the wind blowing.  You
knew which way it was blowing.  You just wanted
to get out of this stuff.  Plus I was really
nervous about these fires on the ground.  The
ground was covered with papers and all sorts of
debris.  There were a few cars on fire.
          We walked west.  We could see the
outdoor escalators at that point.  We walked that
way.  We ran into like a building.  I guess
there's a building there, right there on West
Broadway -- or there was a building there on West
Broadway and Vesey that cut off the street so you
couldn't go straight through.  I remember running
into something.  We made a right, and we walked
straight up West Broadway.
          I remember just walking up that block.
That first block, all the cars were on fire.
They weren't totally engulfed in flames, but
there was fire on them and their tires were
exploding.  I just remember how quiet it was
J. MURPHY 21
walking up that block.  Everything was quiet
except for the explosions of tires and stuff like
that.
          Eventually like a couple blocks later
we got out of it and made our way to 7 Engine.
That's pretty much it.
     Q.   Okay, Jim.  That's good.
          CHIEF KING:  The time is 1717 hours,
     and this view is concluded.
File No. 9110325
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         LIEUTENANT WAYNE MERA
   Interview Date:  December 12, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
W. MERA
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KING:  Today is December
12th, 2001.  The time is 1337 hours and this is
Battalion Chief Stephen King, Safety Battalion, FDNY.
I'm conducting an interview with Lieutenant Wayne Mera
from Ladder Company 110.  This interview is regarding
the events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   You just start whenever you're ready.
     A.   This is Wayne Mera.  Where do I begin?  I'll
start at the very beginning, the morning, beautiful
day.  We had the apparatus doors open and I remember
(inaudible) said, hey, check out the smoke.  So we look
outside.  I see the smoke rising over the bridge and
stuff.  I figure it's got to be in Manhattan; otherwise
we would have gone right away.  I think I heard someone
mention something about the World Trade Center.  So I
stepped back in the kitchen and I see the World Trade
Center on fire on TV.  Oh, you've got to be kidding
me.  So we walked out immediately.  By the time we got
to the front of rig, we heard second third alarm and we
were dispatched.  So at first I thought we were
dispatched on the third alarm, and it turns out we were
actually dispatched as additional units on the first
alarm.  On that ticket it was us, Battalion 31 and
Engine 205.
W. MERA
3
          We responded.  We're going over the bridge.
We have a perfect view of the building.  Never did it
cross my mind that it was going to collapse.  I saw
burning.  I heard reports of jumpers and from that
distance I didn't know if it was jumpers or it was
debris, but you could see a lot of stuff coming out of
the windows, falling down.  All I could think, at that
point I'm thinking we're going to lose the top 15, 20
floors of this building.  We're going to take a beating
today.  We're going to get the snot kicked out of us.
          We turned down Broadway.  We were looking for
Liberty, unsure exactly where Liberty is, of course.
We didn't get box 8087.  We got box, I think it was
9031 or 9030.  I think 9031.  Respond to Liberty and
West.  That's where we were supposed to respond.  So we
turned down Liberty off of Broadway and we're almost at
Church and all of a sudden a massive explosion.
Unbelievable.  The sound was incredible.  It turns out
it was the second plane that hit the south tower, and
it hit on the Liberty Street side, so it was a block
and a half, two blocks from us.  The sound was
incredible.  We didn't know what it was at the time.
We thought it might have been a bomb.  I remember right
before that I saw a helicopter passing by and I thought
W. MERA
4
maybe it was a helicopter, we were thinking a bomb, but
we knew at this point something wasn't right.  In fact,
it was so immense we stopped the rig.  We never stop
the rig on the way to a run.  We stop.  We get out.  31
is behind us.  They're out.  We just couldn't believe
it.  What's going on here?  205 pulls up and says we
know how to get to Liberty and West.  Follow us.  So we
back out and we start following them and they have a
little lead on us.  By that point the traffic was
really horrible.
          At first, when the plane hit, luckily we
weren't close to the building because when it hit, it
was just raining a bunch of debris all down.  So we
actually were fortunate we were another block up
because we would have been right underneath it.  So we
started following 205 and, in hindsight, they must have
gone all the way down to the Battery and across and
then up West Street because they made it to Liberty and
West, I believe.  We lost them.  So we ended up turning
up Trinity, which ends up being Church Street.  So we
ended up almost exactly where we were.  So we ended up
parking on the corner of Church and Vesey.  We parked
the rig.
          The only thing I can think of at this point
W. MERA
5
is that I saw a lot of debris raining down from the
north tower and I thought it was closer to Vesey, so I
didn't want to park right underneath there.  It turns
out we could have because we had the Customs House
right there, but at the time I didn't know.  So we
walked up, grabbed extra cylinders, all our gear.  We
were walking up Vesey and we saw parts of the plane on
the ground still burning.  So we turn down onto West
Street and get to the north tower.  I look inside.  I
think it said 1 World Trade Center.  So I didn't know
if it was 1 or 2, but considering that was the only one
burning, it had to be 1.
          So I saw a bunch of white hats inside the
lobby and walked past a little bit to see if there was
a command post in the street.  I didn't see anyone.  So
we turned around and we went into the lobby.  We went
in.  I remember seeing the Commissioner there, a couple
of Chiefs in there, it must have been like a building
engineer, OEM or somebody else.  They were behind the
desk.  I said is this 1?  They said, yeah, this is 1.
We were there maybe a minute when a Chief turned around
and said you're a truck?  Yeah.  He said you're ready?
Yeah.  Okay.  Come with me.  It happened to be a Chief
from the 11th Battalion.  What's his name?  Piccarelli,
W. MERA
something similar to that.
     Q.   Picciotto.
6
     A.   Picciotto.  So we went up with him.  He said
we've got a report of people trapped on the 21st
floor.  So that's where we ended up going.  We took the
low-rise bank of elevators up to the 16th floor.  It
was a flying shaft from 1 to 8, so we stopped at 9 just
to make sure it worked.  Thank God it did.  We went up
to the 16th floor.  We got off.  People were coming
down the stairs, then we went to the stairs.  I believe
it was the C stairwell.  It was the one closest to the
West Street side.  So we went up to the 21st floor and
that was locked.  So then we went up to the 22nd, which
was open.  So we threw all our gear down, you know,
left our extra cylinders, because conditions were
clear.  So we left the search ropes, we left everything
up there.
     Q.   What about people evacuating; how was it?
     A.   They were very calm.  There was a steady
stream of people coming down and a steady stream of
firemen going up on the right side, people were coming
down on the left side.  It was just a constant stream
of people.  I remember one elderly lady, she was
walking very slow, seemed to be holding up.  So she had
W. MERA
7
stopped at a landing and let a lot of people past her.
But it was very calm.  Everybody was calm.  You could
tell that everyone was nervous, but it was remarkably
calm, really.  It was pretty quiet.  No one was really
saying much, a couple words exchanged, you know, good
words, encouragement and stuff.  I was very surprised
that it was that calm.
          So we got up to the 22nd, threw our gear
down, dropped back down to the 21st and forced the
door.
     Q.   It was clear?
     A.   Clear as day.  We started to search.  We
searched every room in there.  I remember forcing one
door, beautiful mahogany doors, beautiful trim, taking
off the little trim between the doors and I'm thinking
to myself, wow, this is a beautiful door, because you
can do some damage to this, you know.
          The search was negative.  There was nobody
anywhere.  As soon as we got done, it must have been --
we started by the C.  We worked our way around.  We
passed a couple of other stairwells.  At the time I
didn't know what letter they were.  I was in the back
room, it must be the northeast corner, and some guys
must have been on the southeast corner, when all of a
W. MERA
8
sudden the building shook.  I've never been in an
earthquake, but it couldn't have been any worse than
that, any major earthquake.  It just shook the building
like I just couldn't believe.  I mean, it was really
bad.  We stopped a second, looked at each other, what's
going on here?  We come out.  Another guy comes from
another room, let's go, let's go in the stairwell.
          We start going to the stairwell.  The other
guys closest to the south tower started coming out.
The guys who were with me that day, my chauffeur was
Artie Riccio from 119, I had Mike Brodbeck, who was the
can that day, he was from 210, he was doing a mutual.
Artie was on overtime.  I had Dave Sandvik.  I forget
what position he had.  I had Mike Beehler, who was a
proby at the time, he had the irons, and I had Paul
Hyland.  So Dave was with me at the time.  I forget who
else came out of the other room closest to us.  But I
had Paul Hyland and Artie and Mike might have been down
on the south side.  So when we were going to the
stairwell, we were yelling get to the stairwell.  They
came out.  It turned out to be very fortunate.  We were
all headed towards the stairwell.  We never actually
made it in.  We just hit the ground and got close and
it shook for a long time.  I know Artie went back into
W. MERA
9
the room, I think, with Mike, and when they went back
into their room by the south side, all the windows were
broken out and there was a lot of glass everywhere and
debris and so on.  So luckily they got to the hallway
before the glass went and they could be injured by
that.
          We get back.  We heard an order to evacuate.
At the time I didn't know who gave it or anything
else.  It turned out to be the Chief that I was with
that day.  I talked to him later on and he said he gave
the order to evacuate.  So I think it was 6 Engine in
the stairwell at that point and they were yelling for
us to come on, let's go, let's get in the stairwell.  I
said I just got to make sure I got everyone.  Dave
Sandvik went up to the 22nd or 23rd floor to see if he
could find the Chief.  He couldn't find him.
          Earlier, I forgot to mention, there was a
little confusion when we were conducting the search.
All of a sudden they were switching tactical channels
from tactical 1 and tactical 2, and they said north
tower was tactical 1, south tower was tactical 2, and
we were trying to find out if the north was number 1
and the south was number 2 because we weren't sure when
we went in.  I had a feeling that's what it was, but I
W. MERA
10
wasn't sure.  So I tried to contact the Chief at that
point by radio.  I couldn't.  I went upstairs.  I
couldn't find him because, when I went up to the 22nd
floor at that point, there was no one there.  It was
totally empty.  So they must have continued on.  We
even tried a land line from one of the offices to call
the dispatcher to see if they could get in touch with
the command post to see if we could straighten out
which one is 1, which one is 2, so we'd operate on the
same channels, but we couldn't get through there
either.  Not surprising.
          We finally started down --
     Q.   Which staircase?
     A.   Staircase B, which ended up being very
fortunate.  Stairway B, what happened, when we came out
from the rooms we were in, stairway B was right in
between us.  So as we came out, we met at the B
stairwell, and I could be wrong, but from what I
understand, that's the only stairwell that went to the
lobby.  So we only went down that stairwell because
that's where we met.  That's what was in between us.
So that's why we went down that stairwell.
          We started down.  Guys asked if they should
grab the tools.  I said grab what you want, but we're
W. MERA
11
getting out of here.  Don't worry about it.  So we had
the irons with us.  Guys were forcing doors on the way
down.  Dave Sandvik and Paul Hyland, they were popping
doors on the way down, and they yelled in the first one
and they said is that good enough?  I said, yeah, it's
good enough.  I just wanted to make sure someone could
hear us.  Maybe they didn't hear the Mayday
transmission.  So we were checking stuff on the way
down.  I remember Artie was helping a civilian down,
carrying her.  I'm not sure what floor he actually
started carrying the person, but he carried her down at
least 15, 20 flights.  We started on the 21st floor.
So he was pretty shot by the time he got to the
bottom.  Mike Brodbeck was helping another civilian
down and we were working our way down the stairs very
slow.
          At this point, I think, I remember about five
civilians in the stairwell going down.  So it was
almost all firemen.  Three civilians, we passed them.
They were on a landing, on a half landing further
down.  I'm not sure what floor.  As we were passing, we
stopped to help and everybody else that previously had
passed them stopped to help and they kept saying no,
we're okay, you guys just go on.  They were able to
W. MERA
12
move, but they just stopped to rest.
     Q.   I hope they made it out in time.
     A.   It was slow going at first and then it got
even slower.  It got so slow by the bottom, I remember
Dave sat down on the landing.  He sat down on the
landing because we just weren't moving.  He might have
done it on two different landings for like half a
minute, maybe a minute or so each, just sat there
because we were just at a dead stop, and I think maybe
guys were coming in from the other stairwells because
they didn't go to the lobby and they might have had to
filter into us.  So there was a bottleneck.  It was
very, very slow.
          When the building shook, to go back, we
didn't realize what happened.  We didn't realize it was
the south tower.  I know myself and I've talked to the
guys that were with me that day, we all thought the
same thing, it was the upper floors of our building.
That's what we thought.  We thought the upper floors of
our building had collapsed and we didn't know what was
going on.  So on the way down, I remember, I know
myself, I kept thinking that the rest of it was going
to be coming down.  But it ended up being the south
tower.
W. MERA
13
          I remember when we started going, I heard a
radio transmission, and I don't know what company it
was, my feeling is it might have been Timmy Higgins of
252 down in the lobby and it might have been a rescue
company up on the upper floors.  It must have been the
rescue company that started the transmission.  He said
we'll start up here, you start in the lobby and we'll
meet you halfway, and I remember thinking halfway,
jeez, that's about where we're at, where we started at
about the 21st floor.  So in my mind I'm thinking the
rescue must have been up on the 40th floor, somewhere
around there, and I remember thinking they must have
been checking just to make sure that everybody was out
of the building.  I could be wrong, but that was my
impression.  Since we had heard the Maydays and since
they were going to meet halfway, I was just thinking
they must be checking to make sure everyone is out.  I
knew Timmy and he didn't make it out and his company
didn't make it out.
          We got down to the lobby and it opened up
where you could walk at a normal pace.  Nobody was
running out, but you were walking at a pretty good clip
at that point.  You could see a couple of the elevators
had crashed to the bottom and there were doors blown
W. MERA
14
open and stuff.  It was very strange because there was
debris everywhere, not the big, heavy, steel debris,
but there was dust, coated with dust everywhere.  We
walked down past the elevators out into the main lobby
and looked around.  There wasn't a soul there, just the
guys walking out.  What's going on here?  I was
expecting to go down to the lobby and there would be a
command post, a beehive of activity, people
everywhere.  Where is everybody?  What's going on
here?  It just wasn't right.
          So we continued out.  I don't think we even
went out the door.  I think it was windowless and we
stepped out.  We went outside and I remember, I don't
know if it was a fireman or if it was a civilian or who
it was, but there was somebody outside that was
constantly looking up and waving us on as we went out,
looking for jumpers, looking for any debris falling
down.  So he was waving us on.  Artie and Mike had
brought the people outside.
          We followed the building line around,
followed the Customs Building.  We stopped underneath
the pedestrian bridge, the north bridge.  We stopped
there for a second and said let's move up a little
bit.  So we headed north on West Street.  When we came
W. MERA
15
out, I remember looking to the left and seeing a whole
bunch of heavy debris down, and so I guess it looked a
little bit clearer to the right, up north.  That's the
only thing I could figure.  So we moved up a little bit
further.  I'm really not sure how much further.  I
think it was less than a block.  I'm not sure if we
were even at Vesey Street yet.
          I think it was 224's rig.  My back was
towards the building.  The guys sat down on the rig,
you can open up your coats, take your mask off your
shoulder, breathe a sigh of relief, okay, let's catch
our breath, see what's going on before we do anything.
Paul Hyland looks up and goes here it comes.  Run.  My
back was towards the building.  I didn't check back and
look.  A lot of the other guys were already looking
that way, so they saw everything break apart.
          So we started up West Street and all of a
sudden -- it was a gorgeous day, beautiful, sunny day.
Within a split second it turned gray and then pitch
black.  You couldn't see your hand in front of your
face.  You just couldn't see anything.  Once it turned
black, I remember thinking, okay, but I saw this line
of rigs going all the way up West Street and I said I'm
going to follow these rigs up until it clears up.  I
W. MERA
16
don't know when it's going to be, but I'm going to
follow it up.  At this point, I don't know what's
coming behind me.  I'm expecting maybe a fireball is
going to be blowing right up behind me.  I don't know
if anything is falling down.  I have no clue.
          So I'm heading up West and I get to a point
where I really couldn't breathe anymore.  I was sucking
in all this, not just dust, I mean, it was just solid
pieces.  So I dropped down.  I put on my mask.  The
mask was just full of stuff, too.  So as I'm moving on,
I'm brushing this stuff out, getting it clear.  I
remember when I was on my knees, I was feeling around
and I felt somebody and that person just kept on going
across.  I was never able to contact them again, but
they must have been safe at that point.
          So I followed the rigs all the way up and I
finally get to a clear area around Chambers Street and
I look around and none of my guys are with me now.  Now
I'm really worried.  I start calling them.  At this
point there's just wall-to-wall radio traffic.  There's
Maydays, everyone trying, like myself, trying to get in
touch with their members, because if they're missing,
now we're going to have to give Maydays.  So we're
trying to get organized as much as you can.  I'm trying
W. MERA
17
to locate my guys.  Then little by little, I don't know
who was the first one that came up, but Paul Hyland
came up and I saw Dave and I saw Artie, and I've still
got two other guys missing.  Where are they?
          So I was calling in trying to contact them
and eventually I got in touch with Mike Brodbeck.  He
had the can, so he didn't have a radio, but he was
pulled in to the telephone building.  I think it might
have been by 305.  So their officer gave me a call and
said I got your guy with me.  He's okay.
          Then I'm trying to get in touch with Mike
Beehler, who was a proby.  Luckily he had the irons.
It ended up he got pulled in to, I think it was a
Hatzolah ambulance.  So he was inside there.  So I
didn't hear anything from him for a while and then
eventually I heard him.  So I knew he was okay, but I
wasn't able to talk to him for a long time.  Eventually
I was able to talk with him and I said where we were.
We worked our way down.
          I remember I had a couple of other guys I had
found.  I'm not sure what company they were with, but I
got in touch with their officer to let them know where
they were at, that they were okay, I got these two guys
with me, they're in this corner, they're going to stay
W. MERA
18
here until you come.  So everybody was doing that.  Who
you had you were trying to stay with and just watch
over.
          Shortly after that I remember seeing Bobby
Sutton.  He's Battalion 8.  Obviously, he was working
that day and he had gotten separated earlier from the
Chief.  So he comes walking up.  I grabbed ahold of
him, just stay with us now, because he was extremely
lucky.  He made it out twice and he was very shook up,
so I wanted to keep an eye on him, and we were trying
to look for the Chief, who we didn't find until later
on.  We were trying to locate our guys from 207.
          Somehow I forgot to mention this.  When we
went up, 207 at that point was in the lobby.  They were
right by the front, in front of the elevator bank.  207
was to the right, 110 was to the left, and that was the
last I ever saw of 207.  That was right before we went
upstairs.  So, 207, that was the last location I know
with them that I had seen.
          So we were trying to locate 207.  When we
were going up Church Street, I saw 14 Engine coming
down one of the side streets and I glanced over and I
saw my brother-in-law, who is the officer in 14, I saw
him working.  I thought, oh, I wish he wasn't working
W. MERA
19
today.  Normally I would love to see him working.  So I
listened to them, asking guys.  No one saw 14.  No one
saw 207.
          What we did then, a lot of guys were coming
down West at that point.  We were obviously shook up a
bit, so we stopped in front of Stuyvesant High School
by that pedestrian bridge.  I know there was some Chief
saying that, if anybody was in there, let us know if
you got everybody.  So I said, yeah, I got everybody.
I got one minor injury, which was Mike Brodbeck.  When
he was running down the street, he ended up running, I
think, into a cop car or over a barrier, the cement
wall.  He ended up fracturing his arm, broke his hand,
and dislocated his shoulder.  So fortunately that was
the worst injury.  So I let him know about that.
          At that point I know Bobby (inaudible) was
also there.  They stayed with us for a while.  They
didn't want to leave.  We're in front of Stuyvesant
catching our breath, and I'm not sure how much later,
it wasn't that much longer, a cop comes running up and
tells everybody from the high school to go down the
block, that they got a bomb scare or a gas leak, the
high school is ready to blow up.  So now we're trying
to catch our breath here, so we ended up running up
W. MERA
20
another five or six blocks not knowing what's going
on.  We're going up West Street and I'm looking over to
the right and I saw all these buildings, the rig was to
the left, and I'm thinking are these secondary
devices?  Are they planted to explode every 20 minutes
now?  Are they going to chase us all the way up the
west side?
          So we get up.  It eventually turns out to be
a false alarm.  We worked our way back, and by the time
we came back, everybody and their brother, I mean,
everybody in the world was there coming down West.  We
were passing all these volunteer rigs from Jersey,
upstate.  It's just incredible.
          I still don't realize at this point that the
towers actually collapsed all the way down.  It wasn't
until later in the day that I'm staring down through
the smoke that I'm realizing.  Someone said, yeah, both
towers collapsed.  I just couldn't comprehend it at
first.  So at this point, in hindsight, I'm probably
half in shock.  So I just wanted to watch over my
guys.  So we kept them there because there was plenty
of other guys who were showing up who were in perfect
condition.  So I figure, okay, once those guys go to
work, we'll go back to work.  Where we were, it looked
W. MERA
21
like they had some command post set up, so we just
stayed with them, and we basically stayed there the
rest of the day until even after No. 7 collapsed.
          Throughout the day I was trying to find 207.
I asked Field Com, asked the Chiefs, walked down a
little bit and couldn't find anyone.  A couple of my
other guys went down.  207, obviously, they never came
back.  They were all missing.  Probably about three
hours after the collapse or so, two hours, whenever,
after asking Field Com if they had heard about 207 and
14, I was walking away and I figured they're both
missing, it's no good.  Then I heard my brother-in-law
on the radio calling for water and I said, okay, he's
okay, so I started thinking, oh, maybe 207 is okay,
too.  Maybe you just haven't heard them on the radio.
Because no one knew where 14 was and they're okay.
Maybe the same thing with 207.  Let's hope.  False hope
it turned out to be.
          Basically, we waited around, and then later
in the day a bunch of the guys from recall from 110
came by and we hooked up with them and we went back to
find the rig.  One of our guys that  came on recall
earlier ended up moving the rig and pulling up from the
area.  So it wasn't where we left it, but we found it.
W. MERA
22
There was a crack in the windshield.  That's all there
was.  It was covered with debris, of course.
          So we were walking down Church and it was
dark by this time.  We were walking down Church and ESU
comes up to us and goes, you guys got a saw?  We got a
report of people trapped in the subway.  We looked over
and there's a saw, a blade and a can of gasoline right
on the ledge.  Yeah, we got a saw.  We put it
together.  We cut the gate, we rolled down, we're going
underneath, and we crossed underneath Church and it was
just a solid wall of debris from the World Trade Center
and there's no way you were getting through that.  Oh,
my God, I said.  This is just unbelievable.  So we went
to the station.  The station was totally empty, no
trains, no people.  Very eerie.  Very eerie.
          Then after that we found the rig and went
back, found a command post, found a Chief and said
we've been here all day.  So we took the rig back to
quarters.  He said are you able to drive the rig?
Yeah.  So we piled everyone on and came back to
quarters.  The next day they used the inch and 3/4 in
the morning to hose it down.
          I know there were a couple of other thoughts
that I had.  Let's see.  I'm trying to remember the
W. MERA
23
company.  207, of course, sticks out in my mind in the
lobby.  6 Engine.  When we went up, there was an engine
with us, and I can't remember what engine was with us,
but I had heard they had gotten out okay.
          The elevators, we got lucky with the
elevators.  It was orderly going up.  The civilians
were very orderly going up, and coming down everything
was calm, too.  Like I said, I'm sure a lot of other
guys at the time thought it, too, that it was our
building that was collapsing.  It was very calm.  There
was no one rushing.  It was just you moved as fast as
you could move and that was it.  It was very calm
considering the circumstances.
          BATTALION CHIEF KING:  Okay.  The time is
1409 hours and the interview with Lieutenant Mera is
concluded.

FILE NO 9110326
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER PAUL BECK
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 12 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY NANCY FRANCIS

BECK
BATTALION CHIEF KING TODAYS DATE IS DECEMBER 12 2001 THE TIME IS 1510 HOURS THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF STEPHEN KING FROM THE SAFETY BATTALION
FDNY AM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH FIREFIGHTER PAUL BECK FROM ENGINE COMPANY 205 THIS INTERVIEW IS
BEING CONDUCTED IN THE QUARTERS OF ENGINE 224 THIS INTERVIEW IS CONCERNING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001
PAUL YOU CAN START WHENEVER YOU WANT

WHICH BRIDGE
BECK
BROOKLYN BRIDGE THINK WE WERE JUST PAST THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE ON THE MANHATTAN SIDE WHEN THE
FIRST TOWER CAME DOWN AND OF COURSE OUR CONCERN THERE WAS NOW WEVE GOT TO FIND ENGINE 205 AND WEVE GOT TO
FIND LADDER 118
WE PARKED IMMEDIATELY WE FOUND SPOT WE QEARED UP WITH OUR QEAR THERE WERE NO MASKS OR
ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE JUST HELMETS BUNKER GEAR PANTS WE HAD OUR CHAUFFEUR THERE WHO WAS PRETTY
KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT WHERE WE WOULD RESPOND AND HE SORT OF LED US AND THINK WE ENDED UP ON TRINITY IVE GOT MAP HERE AND LIBERTY THINK THERES
BURGER KING ON THE CORNER THERE THATS WHAT WOULD STAND OUT IN MY MIND AS OUR FOCAL POINT THE LOCATION
WE FOUND ENGINE 205 THERE WE CONGREGATED AND TALKED LI TTLE BIT ABOUT WHERE WERE GOING TO SEARCH NOW WE STARTED TRYING TO CALL OUT MEMBERS NAM AND START AR TH RUBBLI LITTLI BIT TO SEE IF WE COULD HEAR ANYBODY TAPPING ANYTHING LIKE THAT PROBABLY GOOD TEN 15 MINUTES WOULD

BECK
SAY WE WERE THERE WE DIDNT FIND ANYBODY MAYBE THINK WE FOUND ONE PERSON THAT PERSON MAY HAVE SUFFERED BROKEN LEG WE PUT HIM IN THINK POLICE VAN
WE WERE JUST RUMMAGING AROUND AND SOON WE
HEARD THIS NOISE IT SOUNDED LIKE TRAIN
IT WAS ANOTHER JET COMING OVERHEAD THOUGHT IT WAS FIGHTER JET NOW PATROLLING OR ANOTHER PLANE COMING PRETTY MUCH EVERYBODY STARTED SCATTERING AND FIGURED WELL THATS GOOD IDEA NOW JUST REMEMBER
RUNNINQ DONT KNOW THINK IT WAS ABOUT TWO BLOCKS
RAN AND THINK HOOKED UP WITH GUY FROM 124 AND WE WERE TRYING TO FORCE DOOR TO GET INTO THIS
BUILDING ID SAY ITS ON TRINITY MAYBE THE TRINITY BUILDING IM NOT SURE IT HAD BIG DOUBLE DOORS WE
WERE TRYING TO FORCE THE DOOR GET IN THERE THINK NOW THAT REALIZE WHAT HAPPENED ONCE THE COMPRESSION HAPPENED IT SORT OF HELPED US PUSH THE DOOR IN WHEN WE GOT IN THERE WE WERE RUNNING DOWN THE HALL BECAUSE WE FIGURED THIS BUILDING IS COMING DOWN PRETTY SOON TOO NOW SO WE RE RUNNING THROUGH THE BUILDING TRYING TO
GIVE OR TAKE FIVE TEN MINUTES SORT OF THE EMERGENCY OR THE URGENCY IS SORT OF DYING DOWN NOW
THOUGHT

BECK
THINK WE WERE SORT OF GATHERING OUR WITS SO WE COME BACK OUT AND WE FIND THE REST OF THE MEMBERS THERE
EVERYBODY THANK GOD FROM THE CREW THAT CAME IN ON THE PERSONAL VEHICLE HAD SURVIVED IT WAS GOOD HALF
HOUR GUESS JUST TRYING TO ROUND UP EVERYBODY AND THANK GOD EVERYBODY WAS THERE LIKE SAID FROM THE
PERSONAL
VEHICLE
THINK WE WALKED DOWN NOT LIBERTY IM
GOING TO SAY ITS THAMES OR ALBANY WE WERE WALKING TO THE WEST SIDE BECAUSE WE HAD SEEN THE ENGINE THERE
PHYSICALLY AND WE DIDNT KNOW WHERE THE LADDER WAS
SO IN THE MEANTIME WE ALSO FOUND THE CHAUFFEUR HE SEEMED PRETTY BEAT UP AND ME AND ONE OF THE OTHER GUYS GOT HIM TO
THE CHAUFFEUR OF WHAT COMPANY
205 WE HAD GOT HIM TO EMS WE HOOKED UP
WITH THE ENGINE COMPANY THAT WAS ON DUTY THAT DAY ALL THE MEMBERS THANK GOD WERE THERE SO WE BROUGHT THE ENGINE BACK AROUND DOWN TO WEST STREET AND THINK WE WENT INTO THE MARRIOTT HOTEL AND SUPPLIED WATER WE WENT UP TO LIKE THE 30TH 31ST FLOOR WE PRETTY MUCH
TH ALL DAY IT WAS BIG BUILDING WITH GREEN ROOF SCAFFOLDING ALL AROUND IT WAS FULLY INVOLVED AND WE JUST HIT IT FROM THE ROOF WE HIT IT

BECK
FROM THE 35TH FLOOR THE 29TH WE WERE THERE ALL DAY
DOING THAT AND THATS BASICALLY IT
DOES ANYTHING ELSE COME TO MIND
NO
BATTALION CHIEF KING OKAY THE TIME IS
1516 HOURS AND THIS INTERVIEW IS CONCLUDED WITH
FIREFIGHTER
BECK

FILE NO 9110327
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER CHRISTOPHER PATRICK MURRAY
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 12 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY NANCY FRANCIS

MURRAY
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN TODAYS DATE IS DECEMBER 12 2001 THE TIME IS NOW 1343 HOURS THIS
IS BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN OF THE SAFETY BATTALION IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH FIREMAN CHRISTOPHER MURRAY OF ENGINE 205 WERE AT THE QUARTERS OF ENGINE 207 AT THIS TIME THERE IS NOBODY ELSE IN THE ROOM THE INTERVIEW CONCERNS THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001
AND WHAT FOLLOWS IS THE INTERVIEW
YOU UP
JUST TALK AT NORMAL TONES SO THAT IT
QUESS IT WAS ABOUT 850 PASSERBY
STOPPED IN QUARTERS TOLD US THAT THE FIRST PLANE JUST HIT THE NORTH TOWER PERSONALLY HAPPENED TO BE THE
PERSON TO TAKE THAT VERBAL FROM THE PASSERBY WALKED OUT IN THE STREET AND YOU COULD SEE THE NORTH TOWER
RIGHT DOWN MIDDAGH STREET YOU COULD SEE THE BILLOWING SMOKE WENT BACK INTO THE FIREHOUSE TOLD THE GUYS
TO PUT ON THE NEWS US BEING WHERE WE WERE EVERYBODY KNEW WE FELT WE WERE GOING TO GET ASSIGNED
ROUGHLY WOULD SAY IT WAS THREE MINUTES MAX ENGINE 205 GOT ASSIGNED TO THE TRADE CENTER
TH BR BRIDG CAM
BELIEVE IT WAS BROADWAY AND STOPPED THE RIG ON BROADWAY
AND LIBERTY AT THE SAME TIME THE SECOND PLANE HIT
PICKS

MURRAY
SO WHEN WE WERE STEPPING OFF THE RIG WE HEARD THE
EXPLOSION AND WE LOOKED UP AND WE SAW WHAT EVERYBODY
ELSE SAW BIG BALL OF FIRE SMOKE FLAME DEBRIS
BUILDING
DEBRIS
WE GOT OFF THE RIG GRABBED THE ROLL UPS AND
OUR BOSS THANKFULLY DECIDED THAT IT WAS NOT SAFE PLACE FOR US TO BE WE MOVED THE RIG WE WENT DOWN
LITTLE SOUTH AND CAME UP ON CHURCH STREET AND BELIEVE THAT WOULD BE GREENWICH OR TRINITY RATHER IT LOOKS
LIKE TRINITY BELIEVE IT WOULD PROBABLY BE TRINITY AND MAYBE CEDAR
OKAY
NO SORRY GUESS MAYBE TRINITY AND THAMES RIGHT BY THE BURGER KING ACROSS THE STREET ACTUALLY BY THE CHURCH BY TRINITY CHURCH THERE WE GRABBED OUR ROLL UPS WE WALKED OVER TO THE COMMAND POST ON WEST STREET ON WEST AND LIBERTY AND WE SPOKE TO CHIEF BARBARA
SO YOU WALKED ABOUT THREE BLOCKS OVER YES WE WALKED
YOU WALKED PAST THE WHOLE TRADE CENTER
RIGHT THINK THE ONLY TIME WE ACTUALLY TRAVELED ON LIBERTY STREET AND IM NOT SURE BECAUSE

MURRAY
DONT KNOW IF WE CAME BEHIND 130 LIBERTY AND CAME UP
WASHINGTON TO CEDAR BUT KNOW WE WOUND UPCOMING BEHIND WASHINGTON OR DOWN WASHINGTON OVER TO CEDAR TO WEST STREET
OKAY
AT THIS TIME CHIEF BARBARA WAS RIGHT BY THE
FOOTBRIDGE
SOUTH FOOTBRIDGE
YES THE SOUTH FOOTBRIDGE OKAY
THE CHIEF TOLD US TO STAND FAST WHICH WE DID FOR GUESS WELL
IT SEEMED LIKE AN HOUR BUT MORE THAN LIKELY IT WAS FIVE OR TEN MINUTES
AT THIS TIME WE WITNESSED LOT OF JUMPERS LOT OF DEBRIS FALLING OFF OF THE BUILDING DONT KNOW IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT DANNY SUHR BECAUSE WE EVENTUALLY GOT INVOLVED WITH DANNY SUHR
WHO IS THAT
HS AN FIR THINK HS FR 216 BUT IM NOT SURE DANNY SUHR ITS RUMORED HE GOT HIT BY JUMPER

MURRAY
YOU TELL ME EVERYTHING THIS WILL HELP US STANDING ON WEST STREET ACROSS FROM LIBERTY
WATCHING THE JUMPERS WE SAW JUMPER COME OFF THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE SOUTH TOWER WHICH WOULD BE THE SIDE
FACING LIBERTY STREET SAY ON THE CROSS STREET GOOD
DISTANCE TO THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF THIS
WHICH WOULD ACTUALLY BE THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF CEDAR
AND WASHINGTON WHICH IS WHERE DANNY SUHR AND HIS COMPANY WHICH AGAIN BELIEVE WAS 216 THEY WERE FORMING UP TO MAKE THEIR WAY TO THE TOWERS DANNY SUHR QOT STRUCK APPROXIMATELY HALF MINUTE TO MINUTE LATER WE CAME UPON THE SCENE STOPPED TO HELP DANNY SUHR DROPPED OUR ROLL UPS GRABBED BUNCH OF EMTS THERE WERE OTHER COMPANIES THERE THE COMPANIES REMEMBER THINK WERE 122 SOMEBODY SAID 217 BUT DONT REMEMBER SEEING THEM WHICH AGAIN IT DOESNT MEAN THEY WERENT THERE THERE WERE PROBABLY ABOUT 20 FIREMEN TRYING TO HELP DANNY
WE WERE THERE FOR ABOUT FIVE MINUTES WE HELPED DANNY GET LOADED INTO THE BUS WENT BACK REFORMED GRABBED OUR ROLL UPS PUT OUR SCOTTS BACK ON
START WALKING TIME WE WERE OF 90 WEST
WASHINGT STR
THINK WE WERE IN FRONT OF 90 WEST AND WE
AT THIS ACTUALLY IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN IN FRONT
PARKING LOT

MURRAY
WERE GOING TO START WALKING NORTH ON WASHINGTON OUR LIEUTENANT DECIDED THAT THE SAFER WAY TO GO WOULD BE TO
GO DOWN TO ALBANY OVER TO GREENWICH DOWN INTO THE RECTOR STREET TRAIN STATION WHICH IS ON GREENWICH AND RECTOR STREET AND TRY TO COME UP TO WORLD TRADE THROUGH THE TUNNEL
THROUGH THE TUNNEL
THROUGH THE TUNNEL WE MADE OUR WAY SOUTH FROM WHERE WE WERE WHICH WAS CEDAR AND WASHINGTON SOUTH ON WASHINGTON BEHIND 130 LIBERTY STREET AS SOON AS WE QOT BEHIND 130 LIBERTY STREET THE BUILDINQ CAME DOWN SO ITS US 122 KNOW WAS THERE BELIEVE THE REMAINDER OF 216 MINUS DANNY SUHR IF THAT IS HIS
IT COULD BE 219 FOR ALL KNOW WE WERE ALL THERE WE FORMED UP IN THE BASEMENT ON THE BACK SIDE
OF THAT BUILDING TO REGROUP AFTER THE COLLAPSE TO AVOID ALL THE STUFF YOU SEE ON THE NEWS THE CLOUD OF DUST
THE PITCH BLACK THE DEBRIS EVERYTHING ELSE OUR BOSS TOOK ROLE CALL ALL OUR MEMBERS WERE ACCOUNTED FOR
AT THIS TIME WE EXITED THE BUILDING BACK ONTO GREENWICH STREET AND ALBANY REALIZING THAT THERE WAS
COMPANY
AT THIS START
WAY
HEADING SOUTH AND WE STARTED SEARCHING THE STOREFRONTS VEHICLES FOR OTHER CIVILIANS IN NEED OF AID AND

MURRAY
BELIEVE WE GOT AS FAR AS POSSIBLY IF THERE AN ADDRESS HERE WHICH DONT THINK THERE IS OPPOSITE THINK WE WERE IN THIS BUILDING OPPOSITE 19 RECTOR
STREET WE WENT IN THERE AGAIN TO REFORM TRY TO GET SOME WATER TO CLEAN OUT OUR EYES REGROUP MAKE SURE EVERYBODY IS ALL RIGHT WE DIDNT AID CIVILIANS IN ANY
WAY EXCEPT PROBABLY GAVE THEM DIRECTION TO GO WHICH WAS SOUTH GO TO THE FERRY GO SOUTH PROBABLY WE WERE
IN THERE FOR FIVE TO TEN MINUTES MAX OUR LIEUTENANT
NOW WANTED TO GO FIND OUR CHAUFFEUR WHO AT THE TIME WE THOUQHT WAS MISSINQ SO WE STARTED QOINQ BACK NORTH
GOING BACK NORTH WE HEARD THE OTHER BUILDING COMING DOWN ALMOST AS SOON AS WE LEFT THE BUILDING WE
WERE IN THE OTHER BUILDING CAME DOWN CLOUD OF DUST ENSUED WE KIND OF WENT BACK INTO THE NEXT BUILDING WE CAME UPON TO LET THE DUST SETTLE ME AND ANOTHER FIREFIGHTER GEORGE CLANCY WITH THE DONT WANT TO SAY RECOMMENDATION AT THE REQUEST OF CIVILIAN SEARCHED THE TWO LOWER FLOORS OF THIS BUILDING LOOKING FOR SCHOOL THAT WAS RUMORED TO HAVE 20 OR 30 KIDS IN
IT WE DIDNT GET ANY ACCESS WE ASSUMED THAT THE SCH HAD VACUAT
WE LEFT THERE WALKED BACK UP AND WE SAW OUR BOSS WHO HAD SPOKEN TO THE OTHER GUYS IN OUR

MURRAY
COMPANY NOW WHO HAD COME ON THEIR OWN THEY HAD GIVEN US WORD ON OUR CHAUFFEUR THAT HE WAS TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL THE OTHER GUYS THAT WERE THERE FRANTIC
CALLS ON THE RADIO TRYING TO GET IN TOUCH WITH ANYBODY AND AT THIS TIME WE STILL HAD NO IDEA WHAT THE
MAGNITUDE OF THIS WAS WE MANAGED TO GET MOST OF OUR GUYS THAT WE KNEW WERE THERE
PRIOR TO ALL OF THAT PRIOR TO LEAVING WEST STREET REMEMBER 118S REPORT THAT THEY WERE ON THE 15TH FLOOR DONT KNOW WHICH BUILDING DONT
THINK THEY QAVE BUILDINQ THINK IT WAS JUST TO THE BATTALION WHO SENT THEM INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
AND THEY SAID 118 IS ON THE 15TH FLOOR WORKING OUR WAY UP THEN WHEN THE BUILDINGS CAME DOWN WE REALIZED
THAT WE LOST PROBABLY ALL OF THE TRUCK
WE WENT BACK OVER TO WEST STREET AFTER THE SECOND COLLAPSE AND STARTED STRETCHING 12 HOSE TO
MARINE WHICH WAS DOWN IN THE PIER AREA OVER HERE GUESS THAT WOULD BE GATEWAY PLAZA
RIGHT
OR MAYBE NORTH NO GUESS IT WOULD HAVE TO
TH STUFF THAT DID STRETCHED DOWN ALBANY PROBABLY SO WOULD HAVE TO
ASSUME THAT THEY WERE DOWN HERE

MURRAY
AFTER DOING THAT WE GOT ASSIGNED TO 90 WEST
STREET OR THE BUILDING SOUTH OF THAT WHICH THINK WAS
70 WEST STREET BECAUSE 90 WEST STREET WAS BURNING
PRETTY MUCH FULLY INVOLVED WOULD ASSUME THAT THIS
WAS IM JUST GUESSING JUST GUESSING WOULD SAY SOMEWHERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF ABOUT 1100 1130
WE ENTERED 70 WEST STREET WENT UP TO THE 37TH FLOOR SET UP STANG AND SPENT THE REMAINDER OF THE AFTERNOON UNTIL ABOUT 900 OCLOCK AT NIGHT IN HOTEL ROOM ON THE 37TH FLOOR PUTTING WATER ON 90 WEST
STREET
IS THAT RIGHT
YEAH THEN ABOUT 900 OCLOCK AT NIGHT THE
CHIEFS ASKED THAT ANYBODY WHO WAS WORKING FOR MORE THAN 24 HOURS WHICH AT THIS TIME WAS HALF OF 205 PLUS THE
CHAUFFEUR BELIEVE WE WERE RELEASED THEY TOLD US YOUVE BEEN RELEASED REPORT BACK IN THE MORNING THEN
WE WENT DOWN IN THE STREET AND YOU KNOW YOU DO YOUR OWN PRIVATE SEARCH LOOKING FOR PEOPLE THAT YOU KNOW GUYS YOU YE SEEN GUYS THAT SAW OVER HERE ON WEST STREET THAT KNOW PERSONALLY WERE ARTHUR BARRY FROM 15 LADD 15 AND STR
FROM 15 AND
YES 15 AND HE WAS DOWN THERE HE WAS AT

MURRAY
HE WENT UP THERE BELIEVE
HE WAS LISTED AS MISSING HE
WAS ALSO ON WEST STREET
RIG SAW 202 AND 224
THEIR RIGS AND THIS IS
OF THESE COMPANIES WERE AT THE COMMAND POST ON THE WEST SIDE
THE COMMAND POST YOU SAID WAS STILL SOMEWHERE NEAR THAT SIDE FOOTBRIDGE
YES WELL THEY DIDNT HAVE AN OFFICIAL COMMAND POST SET UP THEY HAD CHIEF THAT WAS SORT OF FORMING COMMAND POST HE DIDNT HAVE THE BOARDS OUT THE COMMAND POST THAT WE KNOW WHERE YOU HAVE THE BOARDS AND FIELD COIN
RIGHT
HE HAD GUESS GROUP OF COMPANIES ASKING HIM WHICH WAY DO WE GO WHERE DO WE GO WHERE DO YOU
WANT US SO WHETHER HE WAS SETTING IT UP AT THE TIME
OR THE OTHER CHIEFS WANTED HIM TO STAY AND THEY WERE UP
QUARTERS THAT MORNING ACTUALLY IM CERTAIN
SAW 101 COME UP WITH THEIR THINK ALSO COME UP WITH
ALL BEFORE WE LEFT SO LOT
BY THE NORTH BRIDGE AT THE COMMAND POST MAYBE THEY TOLD HIM TO GO DOWN THERE AND ACCEPT COMPANIES HAVE
ID THATS BUT THATS WHCHI SP
BARBARA WAS AND THATS BASICALLY THE END OF THE DAY WAS THERE ANY ORDER TO SWITCH HANDY TALKIE
10

MURRAY
FREQUENCIES IM JUST THINKING HOW DID THEY WHEN THEY KNEW THEY HAD TWO BUILDINGS THEY COULDNT EVEN DO
ONE BUILDING REASONABLY ON CHANNEL
DONT KNOW DIDNT HAVE RADIO
OH OKAY
THE MESSAGE THAT HEARD THE REPORT THAT
HEARD FROM 118 MEAN YOURE USED TO HEARING COMPANY NUMBERS YOU HEAR IT AND FOR WHATEVER REASON IT JUST STANDS OUT OVER ALL THE OTHER REPORTS THAT ONE
HEARD AND THEN YOU HEARD THE MAYDAYS YOU HEARD ALL THE MAYDAYS
AFTER THE FIRST BUILDING CAME DOWN
YES
ON THE HANDY TALKIE THERE WERE LOT OF
MAYDAYS
LOT OF MAYDAYS LOT OF PEOPLE WELL IT WAS BASICALLY JUST BACK UP BACK UP BACK UP AND
THATS PRETTY MUCH WHAT REMEMBER OF THE WHOLE DAY WERE ANY ORDERS GIVEN TO LIKE HEY LETS GO
ON THE PILE MEAN ONCE THE SMOKE CLEARED AND DONT KNOW
DIDNT THAT
NO DONT KNOW BECAUSE WE WERE IN THE
HOTEL ALL DAY SO HALFWAY THROUGH THE DAY OR COUPLE
11

MURRAY
HOURS THROUGH THE DAY WE ACTUALLY LOST OUR RADIOS
OUR RADIOS WENT DEAD ITS PROBABLY MORE THAN HALF OF
THE DAY PROBABLY ABOUT 400 OCLOCK 500 OCLOCK OUR RADIOS WENT DEAD BECAUSE WE HEARD REPORTS ALL DAY
LONG OF WORLD TRADE POSSIBLY COMING DOWN AND THINK AT 530 THAT CAME DOWN
WARNINGS
RIGHT
SO WE HEARD THAT ALL DAY LONG ALL THE
BUT AS FAR AS THE OTHER DIRECTIONS THAT
PEOPLE WERE GIVING OR GETTING EVERYTHING WAS GARBLED YOU HAD LOT OF TRANSMISSIONS PEOPLE STEPPINQ ON
EVERYBODY LOT OF MAYDAYS LOT OF CONFUSION MEAN NOTHING BUT CONFUSION
PERSONALLY AND THIS IS AN OPINION DONT THINK THERE WAS ANYBODY THERE THAT WOULD HAVE GIVEN
ANYBODY AN ORDER TO GO DIG BUT THATS JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION HEARING SOME OF THE TRANSMISSIONS
THAT THEY SENT THAT THEY PUT ON CNN YOU COULD PICK UP TRANSMISSIONS IF YOU WERE ABLE EVACUATE THE AREA IF YOURE ABLE BUT AS FAR AS INDIVIDUAL ORDERS OVER THE RADIO TO INDIVIDUAL COMPANIES DIRECT ORDER TO INDIVIDUAL DIDNT ANY THAT COULDNT MAKE ANY OF THAT OUT IF THERE WAS LIKE
SAID THE RADIOS WERE BALL OF CONFUSION
12

MURRAY
MOST OF THE TIME HUH YES MEAN ALL DAY
ALL DAY
ALL DAY ALL YOU HEARD WAS MAYDAYS AND WHETHER IT WAS FROM MEMBERS IN THE BUILDING ID LIKE
TO BELIEVE THAT IT WASNT BECAUSE THATS GOING TO BE
HORRIBLE THOUGHT FOR ANYBODY THAT THERE WERE GUYS IN THERE THAT SURVIVED THE COLLAPSE THATS JUST KIND OF SAD THERE WOULD BE NO RESCUE SO ID LIKE TO BELIEVE THAT ALL THE MAYDAYS WERE FROM PEOPLE OUT IN THE STREET TRYINQ TO QET THE ATTENTION
THIS IS BEFORE THE COLLAPSE ACTUALLY AFTERWARDS
IN
THINK ALL THE FIREMEN
WERE LOOKING
THE FIREMEN THAT GOT HIT FROM EARLIER ON IN
TH ST WASNT ALIV TH GIVING HIM FIRST AID WAS HE CONSCIOUS AT ANY POINT
NO HE WASNT CONSCIOUS WHETHER OR NOT HE
EVERYBODY PITCHED
UP
13

14
COMPANY WAS WORKING ON HIM SO THEY WERE GIVING HIM RESCUE BREATHING IF THEY RESUSCITATE HIM OR THE BAG
MURRAY
STILL HAD ANY VITALS WE COULDNT ASCERTAIN BUT HIS
THE BVM RATHER BUT WE DIDNT TRY TO VITALS WE JUST TRIED TO LOAD HIM UP AND GET THE EMTS TO GET BUS AND GET
ASCERTAIN
ON THE STRETCHER HIM OUT
THE BUILDING YOU
HAVE QUESTION FOR YOU
WERE IN NOW YOU LOBBED WATER ALL DAY ONTO 90 WEST
COLLAPSE
YES
90 WEST WAS LARGELY INVOLVED IN FIRE FROM THE
YES BELIEVE IT STARTED EARLY ON THERE WERE LOT OF CAR FIRES FROM THE DEBRIS THAT WAS COMING
DOWN SO BELIEVE THAT MAYBE SOME OF THE DEBRIS FROM THE FIRST PLANE THAT HIT THE NORTH TOWER TRAVELED INTO THAT BUILDING AND STARTED THE FIRE KNOW THERE WAS PRETTY GOOD FIRE CONDITION ON THE FIRST FLOOR YOU COULD SEE IT THROUGH THE DOORS AND THE WINDOWS AND THEN THROUGH THE REST OF THE DAY DONT KNOW THE
CONDITION OF THE BUILDING IT LOOKED LIKE THEY WERE WORK ON IT BECAUSE THEY HAD THE SCAFFOLDING SET UP
TH WAS
SO ASSUME THAT THE INTERIOR CONDITION OF
THE BUILDING WAS NOT REALLY IN THAT GOOD SHAPE BECAUSE
PIGHT

MURRAY
THE FIRE TRAVELED TO THE UPPER FLOORS PRETTY FAST UNLESS THAT WHOLE SIDE OF THE BUILDING WAS AFFECTED BY THE PLANE DEBRIS WHICH IS PROBABLY SAFER ASSUMPTION
FROM WHERE YOU OPERATED FROM LOBBING WATER ALL DAY WERE THERE ANY OTHER COMPANIES WITH YOU OR IN
THAT AREA DO YOU REMEMBER SEEING ANY OTHER COMPANIES YES THERE WERE COMPANIES THERE WERE LOT
OF VOLLIE COMPANIES THINK COMING UP TRYING TO FIND OUT IF THEY COULD HELP AND THERE REALLY WASNT LOT
FOR ANYBODY TO DO OTHER THAN RELIEVE COMPANY THAT WAS ALREADY THERE BUT LOT OF VOLLIE COMPANIES WERE COMING UP KNOW THEY HAD AT LEAST TWO HAND LINES OPERATING AND ANOTHER STANG OUT OF 70 WEST OUT OF THE HOTEL WHICH THINK IS THE MARRIOTT HOTEL OF COURSE THE PROBLEM BEING WE HAD VERY LIMITED WATER
RIGHT WATER WAS PROBLEM ALL DAY
RIGHT THAT BUILDING 70 WEST WE WERE HITTING THAT IN WAVES WED SHUT DOWN THE UPPER FLOORS AND USE THE HAND LINES ON THE LOWER FLOORS THEN WED SHUT DOWN THAT FLOOR AND USE STANG IN THE MIDDLE FLOORS AND THEN SHUT DOWN THAT AND USE THE STANG FOR
FL
HAND LINE OR ANOTHER STANG UP ON THE ROOF TRYING TO SHOOT IT INTO THE TOP OF THE BUILDING BUT LIMITED
THINK TH HAD KN IF IT WAS
15

MURRAY
WATER SO IT WAS KIND OF
NOT GOOD WAY TO PUT OUT HIGH RISE
BUILDING FIRE
NO DEFINITELY NOT VERY TEDIOUS PROCESS THE WINDS KICKED UP AND IT LOOKED LIKE WE WERE GOING TO LOSE THAT BUILDING AS WELL THANKFULLY THE WINDS DIED DOWN AND WE GOT CONTROL OF IT WHEN WE LEFT IT WASNT EXTINGUISHED BUT IT WAS ON ITS WAY WOULDNT EVEN SAY IT WAS UNDER CONTROL BUT IT LOOKED LIKE IT
WOULDNT BE THAT MUCH LONGER
THATS ABOUT IT THATS ALL KNOW
WHAT IMPRESSION DID YOU GET WHEN THE SOUTH TOWER FELL DOWN AND THIS CLOUD OF DUST WAS ENVELOPING YOU DID YOU HAVE SENSE THAT MOST OF THE BUILDING COLLAPSED OR DID YOU HAVE SENSE OF WHAT WAS
EARLY ON LOOKING AT THE BUILDINGS MY PERSONAL BELIEF MY PERSONAL IMMEDIATE BELIEF WAS THAT
THE TOP OF THE BUILDING WAS GOING TO SLIDE OFF OF THE SOUTH TOWER BECAUSE DAMAGE THAT THE PLANE DID IT
LOOKED LIKE OF FLOORS
IT TOOK OUT HALF THE BUILDING ON ON MULTIPLE FLOORS BUT IT WAS
NUMBER FLEETING
TH
TH
THAT THE TOP WOULD COME OFF BUT DONT THINK ANYBODY
ANYB
TH
THINK
HEART THAT THAT BUILDING WAS GOING TO COLLAPSE EVEN
IN
16

MURRAY
BELIEVED THAT THAT BUILDING WAS GOING TO COLLAPSE THE WAY IT DID
BUT WHEN IT DID START COMING DOWN YOU KNEW
EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS COUPLE OF GUYS THOUGHT IT WAS ANOTHER PLANE BECAUSE WE HEARD REPORTS OF ANOTHER PLANE COMING IN AND THEN YOU HEARD THIS NOISE AND FEW GUYS SAID ITS ANOTHER PLANE BUT FOR WHATEVER REASON
KNEW EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS IT SOUNDED LIKE FREIGHT TRAIN GOING RIGHT OVER YOUR HEAD IT WAS AN UNBELIEVABLE EXPERIENCE THEN WHEN THE SECOND ONE WENT OBVIOUSLY YOU HEARD THE SAME NOISE SO YOU KNEW WHAT THAT WAS
IM NOT BEING
YOU EVER HEAR OF
ON ROLL CALL WHOS LEFT WAS THE HANDY TALKIE AT ANY TIME CLEAR
ENOUGH HOW ABOUT ORDERS ASSIGNING COMPANIES TO DO CERTAIN THINGS ANYTHING LIKE THAT
NO
IT WAS JUST CHAOTIC ON THE RADIOS
EVERYBODY WAS SCREAMING WE KNEW WE HAD GUYS TH THAT CAM TH WN AND IF
STANDING NEXT TO SOMEBODY WITH RADIO COUPLE OF US HAD RADIOS AND WE HOOKED UP WITH THE OTHER GUYS FROM
AT ANY TIME DID ANYBODY CRITICAL OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT DID
ANYBODY TRYING TO GET HANDLE LIKE
17

MURRAY
COMPANY THAT CAME ON THEIR OWN SO YOURE TRYING TO BREAK IN WHENEVER YOU CAN WE HEARD ONE OF OUR GUYS
BREAKING IN LOOKING FOR ANOTHER GUY ON THE TRUCK AND WE HAD JUST RUN INTO HIM WE ALL KIND OF CONVERGED ON THE SAME CORNER IT PROBABLY TOOK US AT LEAST MINUTE TO GET OUR MESSAGE OUT THAT WE GOT HIM AND HES WITH US THEN WE ALL HAMMERED AGAIN THREE BLOCKS NORTH WHICH AGAIN WAS NORTH AND WOULD ASSUME IT HAD TO BE
TRINITY LIKE RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE AMERICAN STOCK EXCHANGE JUST NORTH OF THE AMERICAN STOCK EXCHANGE WE HAPPENED TO RUN INTO COUPLE OTHER QUYS AND THEN WE WENT ALL OVER TO WEST STREET WHERE WE REGROUPED WITH OFF DUTY MEMBERS AND ON DUTY MEMBERS
HOW DID YOU GET AWAY FROM THE SCENE YOU SAID BEFORE SOMETHING ABOUT 900 OCLOCK AT NIGHT YOU OPERATED UNTIL AROUND
YES THINK AT 900 OCLOCK AT NIGHT
AGAIN LOT OF THIS IS PERSONAL BELIEF THINK SOME OF THE CHIEFS STARTED TO REALIZE THAT YOU REALLY HAD LOT OF PEOPLE DOWN THERE AND LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WERE NOT GOING TO BE THAT EFFECTIVE IN THE JOB THAT NEEDED
WORK THAT 2000 GUYS ARE GOING TO BE DOING PLUS YOU
HAV 10000
ENDANGERING THESE 10000 GUYS NEEDLESSLY THERE FOR THE
GUYS
TH AND
18

MURRAY
HAD GUYS THAT WERE TIRED YOU HAD GUYS THAT WERE BEAT UP YOU HAD GUYS THAT WERE HURT
NOT TO SAY THAT NOT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US WAS NOT DEDICATED WE WERE ALL DEDICATED WE ALL WANTED TO GO IN THERE AND DIG AND HELP TO GET THESE
GUYS OUT BUT THERE WAS LOT OF GUYS THINK THAT WERE JUST INCAPABLE OF DOING THAT AND THINK LOT OF THE CHIEFS REALIZED THAT SO THE GUYS THAT WERE THERE FOR MORE THAN 24 HOURS WHICH IM SURE WAS LOT OF GUYS THEY RELEASED THEM WHETHER EVERYBODY LEFT OR NOT DONT KNOW BUT OUR COMPANY LEFT WE WERE PHYSICALLY AND EMOTIONALLY BEAT UP AND SPENT
OKAY SAD STORY
YES THERES LOT OF THEM OUT THERE
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN WANT TO THANK FIREMAN MURRAY FOR HIS INTERVIEW THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW AT 1406 HOURS AND THATS ALL
19

FILI 9110328
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW LIEUTENANT NEIL BROSNAN
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 12 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELIZABETH SANTAMARIA

BROSNAN
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN THE TIME IS
1C08 THIS IS BATTA1I CHIEF MALKIN OF THE SAFETY BATTALION OF THE NEW YORK CITY
FIRE DEPARTMENT IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH LIEUTENANT BROSNAN OF ENGINE 212 WE
ARE IN THE OFFICE IN 212S QUARTERS THERE IS NOBODY ELSE HERE IN THE OFFICE THIS INTERVIEW IS IN REGARD TO THE EVENTS OF
2001 WHAT FOLLOWS IS LIEUTENANT BROSNAN INTERVIEW
WE WERE AT QUARTERS WE WERE ASSIGNED FOURTH ON THE FIFTH ALARM OUR TICKET GAVE US
RESPONSE LOCATION LOBBY COMMAND POST OF TOWER
SO WE WERE ASSIGNED TO LOBBY COMMAND POST ON THE INITIAL ALARM
WE ARRIVED WELL START WITH OUR RESPONSE
FROM QUARTERS WE RESPOND FROM QUARTERS WE HIT EXTREMELY HEAVY CAB TRAFFIC ON PARK AVENUE IN THE VICINITY OF ENGINE 207S QUARTERS FOR FOUR BLOCKS TO GET PAST THE CABS WE ACTUALLY HAD TO GO THROUGH PARKING LOT THE HOUSING PROJECT PARKING LOT WE WERE BLOCKED OUT WE TRIED TO MOVE TRAFFIC
SEPTEMBER 11

THIS WAS TH DETECTIVES ON MY INTERVIEW WITH THEM WE THOUGHT IT
WAS UNUSUAL BUT WE JUST WENT AGAINST TRAFFIC WE GOT TO THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE ME AND 221 WERE IN TANDEM FOR THE WHOLE WAY
ARRIVED ON BROADWAY LIBERTY STREET WAS WE WENT SOUTH ON WE WENT WEST ON LIBERTY STREET TOOK HYDRANT LOCATION AT LIBERTY AND
CHURCH ON THE EAST SIDE OF LIBERTY STREET AT THAT
TIME GETTING OFF THE RIG WE WERE INFORMED WE BELIEVE BY THE DEPARTMENT RADIO THAT THE ELEVATORS
WERE FALLING IN THE SHAFTS AND NOT TO USE HIGH BANK OR MID BANK OF ELEVATORS TO USE ONLY LOW BANK OF ELEVATORS ONLY
WE SWITCHED TO OUR COMMAND CHANNEL WALKED
ACROSS THE STREET WE HAD HEARD TRANSMISSION
ABOUT BRINGING IN SPARE SCOTT CYLINDERS WHICH WE HAD ALREADY HAD WE HAD ALREADY LEFT THE RIG WITH
OUR EXTRA EQUIPMENT ENCOUNTERED 217 AND 214 ON THE OTHER SIDE INFORMED THEM THAT SPARE SCOTTS WERE NEEDED THEY WENT AND GOT THEIR SPARE SCOTTS WE PROCEEDED SINGLE FILE TO 10 TRUCKS QUARTERS OUR COMMAND POST WAS SUPPOSED TO BE WASHINGTON AND
OPEN

BROSNAN LIBERTY IN THE LOBBY COMMAND POST
ARRIVED AT THAT KCATI
LARGE AMOUNTS OF BUILDING DEBRIS FALLING HITTING 10 TRUCKS QUARTERS WE DID NOT THINK WE COULD SAFELY
EGRESS INTO THE LOBBY COMMAND POST FROM THIS
LOCATION DUE TO THE BODIES AND DEBRIS FALLING DOWN
AROUND THIS TIME WE ENCOUNTERED ESU
UNIT WE BELIEVE IT WAS ESU UNIT FROM PD THAT WAS REPORTING THIRD PLANE WAS INBOUND THEY WERE RUNNING NORTH ON LIBERTY TOWARDS BROADWAY IMPLORING PEOPLE TO RUN
EAST ON LIBERTY EAST ON LIBERTY LIBERTY IS THIS WAY
OKAY THEY WERE PUSHING EAST ON LIBERTY TOWARDS BROADWAY
EAST ON LIBERTY TOWARD BROADWAY THEY WERE GOING EAST GOING BACK UP
TOWARDS BROADWAY AT THIS TIME WE THOUGHT THIRD PLANE HIT AND WE WERE NOW IN THE DEBRIS FIELD OF THE PLANE WITH NUMEROUS BODIES AND WE THOUGHT WE
COULDNT SURVIVE THIRD EVENT IN THE STREET
LOOKED WE WERE RIGHT HERE AT THE CORNER OF
LIBERTY AND GREENWICH
RIGHT
NC

BROSNAN
GREENWICH WE ENCOUNTERED THE SECURITY
STR
ESCORT US THROUGH THAT BUILDING AND COULD WE GET DOWN TO WEST STREET THROUGH THIS BUILDING TO USE
THEM FOR COVER IN CASE THE THIRD PLANE HIT WE FIGURED WE COULDNT LIVE IN THE STREET WE WOULD BE DEAD IF THE THIRD PLANE HIT WHERE WE WERE
WE THEN EXITED ME AND 217 AT THIS TIME WERE
DEFINITELY TOGETHER WE WENT SINGLE FILE THROUGH THE BUILDING CAME OUT UNDER THIS UNDERPASS THERE
WAS SMALL WHITE BRIDGE THERE WE USED THAT AS COVER WE BROUGHT OUR MEMBERS IN ONE AT TIME INTO THE MARRIOTT HOTEL FOR COVER
AT THIS TIME HAD MY FIVE GUYS BROUGHT IN
217 WAS THE NEXT COMPANY TO CROSS PROCEEDED TO THE DESK THERE WAS CHIEF THERE BELIEVE IT WAS THE 8TH BATTALION AND IM NOT GOING TO RECALL HIS NAME RIGHT NOW BUT IT WAS THE BATTALION WE WERE NOT ASSIGNED TO THE HOTEL SO WE INQUIRED
INQUIRED WITH THE HOTEL MANAGER SEE NUMEROUS
FIRE DEPARTMENT UNITS HERE AND INQUIRED COULD THOSE ELEVATORS GET US INTO THE TRADE CENTER HE SAID NO SAID HOWCAN WE GET BACK INTO CONCOURSE LEVEL OF THE TRADE CENTER FOR COVER HE
GUARD AT 130 LIBERTY
ASKED HIM

BROSNAN
ASSIGNED US HIS DESK CLERK WHO LED US THROUGH THE
VISTA AND INT TH TRADE CENTER
NOW BELIEVE THAT IS STILL THE CONCOURSE
LEVEL FROM THE WEST STREET SIDE THATS HOW
INTERPRET IT WE PROCEEDED THROUGH ON THE WAY OUT MET CHIEF WHO ASSIGNED ME ACTUALLY TO THE 71ST
FLOOR OF WORLD TRADE CENTER AND INFORMED HIM THAT WAS NOT ASSIGNED TO WAS GOING TO USE THE CONCOURSE LEVEL TO COME BACK ON
238 CAME WAS BEHIND ME AND HE ENCOUNTERED THE SAME CHIEF PROCEEDED INTO TOWER STARTED THROUGH TOWER CONCOURSE LEVEL GOT IN
APPROXIMATELY 200 FEET REALIZED DID NOT ENCOUNTER ANY OTHER FIRE DEPARTMENT UNITS AT THIS TIME
STAGED MY MEMBERS AND WENT LOOKING FOR COMMAND POST OR ANOTHER CHIEF TO TRY TO TOUCH BASE
WITH SOMEBODY AT THAT POINT HAD MADE CIRCLE LOOPED AROUND AND SEEN 238 COMING UP BEHIND ME
WHICH THEY WERE STILL IN RIGHT BEFORE IT COMES INTO THE CONCOURSE PLAZA PROCEEDED BACK TO 238
WHICH MY MEN WERE STAGED APPROXIMATELY 150 FEET FURTHER IN SO WENT BACK OUT TOWARDS THE WEST

BROSNAN
STREET SIDE OF WORLD AT THIS TIME ENCOUNTERED
238 AT AN LIVAT BANK AND THEY ASKING TH
SECURITY GUARD WAS IT FIRE DEPARTMENT MANNED ELEVATOR AND HAD JUST TOLD THEM THAT WE ARE NOT
ASSIGNED TO FOLLOW ME AND WE WILL PROCEED DEEPER
IN THE BUILDING AND WELL PICK UP THE HALLWAYS THAT WILL GET US ACROSS BACK TO
AT THIS TIME CAUGHT THE EXPLOSION COMING OUT FROM MY LEFT SIDE SEEN THE CEILING COMING DOWN AND WE ALL GOT LOW AND BACKED DOWN DEAD END HALLWAY ME AND THE OFFICER FROM 238 AND THE SECURITY GUARDS AND BELIEVE TWO OF HIS MEMBERS
GOT LOW AND BACK DOWN AND ALL RECALL IS FOR ME
IT WAS THE RIGHT WALL THAT WOULD BE MY WALL BACK OUT TO WEST STREET
WHEN CRAWLED OUT WE BECAME ENTANGLED WITH
CIVILIANS OUR MASKS GOT ENTANGLED BELIEVE ON TURNSTILES COMING OUT OF THEIR SECURITY POSTS AND
WITH CIVILIANS PUSHING LOST MY MASK AT THIS
POINT AT THIS POINT TRIED TO GO BACK TOWARDS MY MEMBERS BUT WE HAD 20 PROBABLY COULD HAVE BEEN UPWARDS OF 30 CIVILIANS PUSHING US OUT THIS WAY AND IT BECAME THE BEST OPTION FOR ME ME AND 238 CRAWLED BACK OUT TO WEST STREET

BROSNAN
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN IM GOING TO
TH TAPE SZC IM
SHUT IT TO STOP THE INTERRUPTION RECESS TAKEN
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN ITS 1418
HAD THE TAPE OFF FOR TWO MINUTES BECAUSE OF
AN INTERRUPTION AND THE INTERVIEW RESUMES NOW
WE WERE BLOWN DOWN THE HALLWAY MY LEFT EYE WAS BLINDED BY DEBRIS OUR MOUTHS WERE STUFFED
WITH GUESS THE CONCRETE DEBRIS FROM THE
EXPLOSION AND AT THIS TIME WHEN WAS GETTING BLOWN DOWN THOUGHT THIS WAS THE THIRD PLANE ESU WAS TALKING ABOUT HAD THAT IN MY MIND THAT NOW THE THIRD PLANE HAD HIT THE BUILDING AND THATS WHAT THE EVENT WAS
AT FIRST WE WERE WAITING FOR THE HEAT TO COME AND THEN WE REALIZED IT WAS BREATHABLE AND WE CRAWLED OUT WE CRAWLED OUT AND YOU COULDNT EVEN TALK YOU HAD SO MUCH DEBRIS IN YOUR MOUTH
THIS BUILDING WAS STILL OKAY WHAT HAPPENED WAS COLLAPSED AND CAUSED ALL OF THIS DEBRIS AND DUST AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS THAT IT
ACTUALLY THE EXPLOSION CAME IN THROUGH

BROSNAN
THOSE DOORS AND CAME UP BEHIND THE WAY HAD COME
IN AND THAT THAT TH XPKSI CAME FROM THE WAY HAD JUST LEFT
DID YOU KNOW WHAT THE EXPLOSION WAS NO WE NEVER HEARD THROUGH THIS WHOLE
EVENT THROUGH THE COLLAPSE OF OTHER THAN WELL WORLD TRADE CENTER HAPPENED TO BE THERE SEEN
THAT COLLAPSE WE NEVER KNEW WORLD TRADE CENTER COLLAPSED ON CHANNEL MY MEN DIDNT KNOW IT DIDNT KNOW IT IN FACT DIDNT KNOW FOR WEEK LATER THE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS UNTIL TALKED TO CHIEF IN THE 8TH BATTALION AND HE TOLD ME WAS WRONG THOUGHT THE HOTEL COLLAPSED FIRST
BECAUSE NOW AS GET OUT OF WORLD TRADE WE GET OUT WITH CIVILIANS WE TELL THE CIVILIANS GO
NORTH TOLD THE CIVILIANS GO NORTH WHY AND WENT NORTH ACTUALLY EXITED
DONT KNOW THE
WENT TO
AND WENT NORTH ON WEST STREET
BUILDING
RIG TO TRY TO GET THE DEBRIS OUT OF MY EYES WAS UNSUCCESSFUL TURNED AROUND AND LINKED UP WITH LIEUTENANT WILKINSON OF ENGINE 238 AND ASKED HIM HOW HE WAS DOING HE STATED HE WAS MISSING HIS
NOZZLEMAN AND SAID OKAY IM MISSING MY WHOLE COMPANY LETS TRY TO GET OUR MAYDAYS TRANSMITTED

BROSNAN
WE WERE UNSUCCESSFUL WE COULD NOT GET
MAYDAY TRANSMISSI ACKN AND TH
MANY MAYDAYS COMING IN WE WERE UNSUCCESSFUL SO
TOLD HIM AT THAT TIME HAD LOST MY MASK COMING OUT TO WAIT FOR ME ME AND HIM WOULD GO BACK AND
WE WOULD DO SEARCH FOR OUR MISSING MEMBERS TO MOVE HIS MEN SAFELY UP HERE
BELIEVE THE LAST SEEN OF LT WILKINSON WAS UNDER THE BLACK OVERPASS AT WORLD TRADE CENTER THEN BEGAN SEARCHING FOR MASK AND TO CLEAN OUT MY EYES SOMEBODY LED ME INTO STORE HAVE NO IDEA WHERE THE STORE WAS THEY WASHED MY EYES OUT IN THE SLOP SINK CAME BACK WENT UP VESEY STREET SEARCHING THE RIGS FOR MASK AND WAS UNSUCCESSFUL
CAME BACK DOWN TO WEST AND BELIEVE FOUND SPARE MASK ON SQUAD 41S RIG OR SQUAD 18S RIG TOOK THE MASK
AT THIS TIME ENCOUNTERED CHIEF KEENAN AND KNEW HE WAS NOT IN OUR BATTALION AND BELIEVE
HES IN THE 49 BUT HE USED TO BE IN 28 ENGINE
PHYSICALLY GAVE HIM MY MAYDAYS AND 238S AND TOLD HIM THEIR LAST LOCATION WE HAD JUST ENTERED
WORLD TRADE CONCOURSE LEVEL HE PROCEEDED SOUTH ON WEST STREET WOULD ASSUME TOWARDS CHIEF GANCIS
10

11 COMMAND POST HE WAS HEADING IN THAT DIRECTION WHEN
LAST HIM
AT THIS POINT MY EYES ARE NOW CAN SEE
SQUINT AND NOTICE THAT THE HOTEL IS IN SHAPED
BROSNAN
COLLAPSE WITH ONLY THE TWO ENDS OF THE HOTEL WHOLE CENTER OF THE HOTEL HAS DISAPPEARED INTO
DOWN TO ALMOST STREET LEVEL REALIZED THERE WAS TEN TO FIFTEEN COMPANIES THAT HAD ONLY PASSED THREE TO FIVE MINUTES PRIOR
TO THIS EXPLOSION THATS ABOUT THE TIME WAS IN WAS NO MORE THAN THREE TO FIVE MINUTES WHEN THIS OCCURRED WHICH WE FOUND OUT LATER WAS THE COLLAPSE
OF BUT WE DID NOT KNOW AT THIS TIME
AT THIS TIME HAVE MASK RUN INTO JOHN
MCDONALD OF ENGINE 271 AND HE SAYS NEIL WHERE ARE YOU GOING SAID MIKE IM GOING BACK IN TO
LOOK FOR MISSING MEMBERS AND SO DOES 328 GET BACK SOMEWHERE IN THE VICINITY OF 20 TRUCK IS THE LAST TRUCK PHYSICALLY REMEMBER WHEN WE NOTICED THAT TOWER IS COMING DOWN AND WE ALL PROCEED NORTH ON WEST STREET
RUNNING AWAY FROM THIS COLLAPSING TOWER
RUNNING AND USED THE RIGS THAT WERE PARKED ON WEST AS GUIDE BECAUSE COULDNT SEE
SHAPED COLLAPSE
THE

12 VERY WELL AT THAT TIME TO BEGIN WITH AND REALLY
RUN ALL DID WAS WAS
RIGS TRYING TO WORK MY WAY NORTH TWO RIGS PAST 20 TRUCK AND CRAWLED
NT TH MADE IT ONE TO
BROSNAN
UNDER RIG AND AS DID BECAME SEPARATED FROM MCDONALD ENGINE
271 WAS LITTLE NORTH OF ME
AFTER THE COLLAPSE WHICH REALLY WAS RAPID WAS NO SOONER UNDER THE RIG THEN IT WENT SILENT
CRAWLED OUT BELIEVE FOLLOWED THE RIGS WHEN RAN OUT OF RIGS FEELING MY WAY AND THEN WENT LEFT
AND FOUND MYSELF SOMEWHERE OVER ON THAT NORTH END AND VESEY STREET IN LIKE AN OPEN LOT
SEEN CHIEF THAT WAS COMING DOWN THE WEST SIDE WEST STREET ENCOUNTERED HIM TOLD HIM MY COMPANY WAS MISSING ASKED HIM WHERE THERE WAS COMMAND POST HE STATED HE DIDNT KNOW
PHYSICALLY GAVE THIS CHIEF AND LIEUTENANT WROTE DOWN THE NAMES OF MY MISSING MEMBERS WHO HAD LAST SEEN THEN TOLD HIM WAS GOING TO GO BACK UP TO LIBERTY AND CHURCH TO SEE IF MY CHAUFFEUR WAS ALIVE BECAUSE THOUGHT HAD LOST THE COMPANY AT THAT TIME
WAS UNABLE AT ANY POINT TO RAISE ANYBODY ON THE RADIO DUE TO THE NUMEROUS MAYDAYS SO

13 PHYSICALLY WALKED BELIEVE MUST HAVE WALKED UP
MURRAY STR WAS HEADING CHURCH ENCOUNTERED JET ENGINE SOMEWHERE ON CHURCH STREET
AND DECIDED THIS WAS NOT GOOD AND HEADED UP TO
GO
BROSNAN
WALKED DOWN BROADWAY ENCOUNTERED MY BROADWAY AND LIBERTY AND SAID OKAY
BROADWAY
CHAUFFEUR
HES ALIVE
TO THE HOSPITAL YOURE INJURED IM GOING BACK DOWN TO THE COMMAND POST IM GOING TO SEARCH ON MY
WAY
ON MY WAY UP FROM WEST STREET TO BROADWAY
SEARCHED THE PERIMETER DIDNT FIND ANYBODY DIDNT EVEN FIND ANOTHER FIREMAN NOBODY ON MY
AT
HAVE CHAUFFEUR SAID MIKE
WAY BACK ENCOUNTERED CAPTAIN KNEW THAT WAS THE
CAPTAIN OF 22 ENGINE THAT DAY BEING LOADED IN AN AMBULANCE HE SAID IF YOU SEE 22 ENGINE NEIL
TELL THEM THEYRE TAKING ME TO THE HOSPITAL
THEN WENT BACK TO THE COMMAND POST REPORTED
TO CHIEF NIGRO TOLD HIM HAD MEMBERS MISSING
WAS GOING TO WAIT UNTIL HAD WORD WHETHER THEY WERE
IN THE HOSPITAL STAYED THERE TWO TO THREE HOURS AND THEN WAS REMOVED TO THE HOSPITAL
YOU STAYED WHERE TWO TO THREE HOURS AT NIGROS COMMAND POST

BROSNAN
AT CHIEF NIGROS COMMAND POST AND
THAT WAS AT CHAMBERS STR CHAMBERS AND
AND THE WEST SIDE
HIGHWAY
OKAY
STAYED THERE AND THEN
WAS REMOVED TO THE HOSPITAL TO HAVE MY EYES TREATED AND THAT WAS THE END OF MY DAY AT THE HOSPITAL HE HAD TOLD ME
THAT MY MEMBERS HAD BEEN REMOVED BUT AT THE TIME
THOUGHT THEY WERE LYING JUST TO GET RID OF YOU SURE
JUST TRYING ON TIME TO BRING IN
TO SAY HEY LISTEN COME FRESH CREW BUT REMEMBER SEEN WAS CHIEF KEENAN WAS
THE LAST THREE PEOPLE
SOUTH OF ME 271 WAS BEHIND ME HAD LAST VISUALLY SEEN LIEUTENANT WILKINSON BY WORLD TRADE AND NEVER MADE EYE CONTACT OR RADIO CONTACT WITH HIM
HE WAS FOUND EXPIRED LATER THAT NIGHT IN FRONT OF WORLD TRADE
TELL ME ABOUT WHAT COMMAND CHANNEL
SAID YOU SWITCHED TO COMMAND CHANNEL SOMETHING LIKE THAT WHERE WAS THAT
WE WERE TOLD TO GO TO YOU WERE TOLD TO GO TO
14
YOU

15 WE WERE TOLD TO GO TO AND THATS WHEN
WAS WITH 217 214 GETTING UR GEAR TOGETHER AT LIBERTY AND CHURCH ON THE SOUTH SIDE
OF ON THE WEST SIDE OF CHURCH SO WE ALL WENT TO
RIGHT ABOUT THAT TIME
WHO GAVE YOU THOSE INSTRUCTIONS THAT
CAME FROM THE DEPARTMENT RADIO
IT CAME ON THE RADIO YOU KNOW DIDNT
KNOW THEY SAID GO TO AND ACTUALLY THE GUYS CHECKED MY CHANNEL TO BECAUSE OF MY EYES
DID YOU GET THE SENSE THAT WAS GOING TO BE THE TACTICAL CHANNEL FOR THE OPERATIONS IN THE
BUILDING THEY WERE SENDING YOU TO
THOUGHT WAS GOING TO BE MY OPERATIONS
FOR WORLD TRADE
FOR WORLD TRADE OKAY
BECAUSE AS AN ASSIGNMENT WE WERE ASSIGNED TO THE LOBBY COMMAND POST ACTUALLY TOOK THAT
PHYSICALLY TO MEAN FROM THE LAST EVENT THAT WE WERE GOING INTO COMMANDER WE WERENT GOING INTO CHIEF GANCIS COMMAND POST WE WERE BEING ASSIGNED
FIRE ASSIGNMENT RIGHT ON THE TICKET NONE OF US COULD GET TO IT SOME UNITS GOT TO COMMUNICATIONS
WE NEVER SEEN IT NEVER KNEW WHERE THE COMMAND
BROSNAN

16 POSTS WERE WE WERE TOLD WHEN WE GOT HERE THE
WHEN WE GOT HERE NOBODY KNEW BECAUSE WE WERE
ALL PREDOMINANTLY BROOKLYN AND HARLEM COMPANIES WERE HERE
BROSNAN
KIDS THAT STILL IN 10 TRUCKS
WERE TWO FIREMEN AND THEY SAID NO THE COMMAND POST HAD BEEN MOVED TWO OR THREE TIMES BUT THEY DIDNT KNOW WHERE THEY WERE
AT THE HOTEL
AT THE HOTEL KNEW IT WASNT MY
RIGHT
THAT COULD GET IN BACK THROUGH THE LEVEL WITHOUT GETTING KILLED TO GO
ASSIGNMENT
CONCOURSE
ACROSS THE STREET ACTUALLY DANNY SUHR GOT KILLED RIGHT BEHIND US AND NEVER SEEN HIM BUT THERE WERE JUMPERS COMING SAID IM GONNA LOSE 50 OF MY MEN IN THE STREET
AND IT WAS THAT MANY BODIES RIGHT HERE ON THE STREET AT THAT TIME IT WAS SCATTERED WITH BODIES
THEY WERE COMING DOWN LIKE SEEN SEVERAL COMING THROUGH THE SMOKE AND SAID WERE REALLY NOT GOING TO SURVIVE HERE BUT WE NEVER QUESTIONED YOU KNOW WE SEEN THE AMOUNT OF FIRE WE JUST FIGURED IT WOULD BE AN EVACUATION THOUGHT THERE WAS 10 TO 15 FLOORS OF FIRE ON THE CHURCH STREET
QUARTERS TH

BROSNAN
SIDE OF TOWER ON MY ARRIVAL FULLY INVOLVED
SAID TH IS WAY SAID THIS IS JUST AN EVACUATION MEAN WE DID THIS FIRE LAST
TIME AND KNEW WHEN GOT HERE THERE WERE TOO
MANY COMPANIES BUT THE COMPANIES LOOKED AT ME LIKE WAS TALKING GREEK WHEN SAID NO DONT BELONG
HERE CHIEF IM ASSIGNED TO IM LEAVING
MY COMPANY SEARCHED THE HOTEL DURING
THE 1993 EXPLOSION AND KNEW ITS LOW OCCUPANCY HOTEL IT SELF EVACUATES YOU DONT NEED 20
COMPANIES TO SEARCH IT SAID IM OUT OF HERE AND WE PROCEEDED IN THEN THE ONLY COMPANY THAT FOLLOWED ME WAS 238 217 GOT INVOLVED IN DANNY SUHRS RESCUE AND DONT KNOW WHERE 214 WENT 214 MIGHT HAVE WENT TO THE COMMAND POST IM NOT SURE LIKE SAID WE SEEN THE 8TH BATTALION CHIEF SEEN 122 TRUCK 58 ENGINE
WHERE WERE THEY WHERE WERE THEY
PHYSICALLY
58 ENGINE WAS AT THE DOORWAY OF THE HOTEL THERE WERE NUMEROUS TRUCK COMPANIES AT THE ELEVATOR LOBBY BUT DO NOT KNOW THOUGHT SEEN
TRUCK BUT THAT WAS THE ONLY ONE RECOGNIZED
IN THE VISTA HOTEL
17

18
IN THE VISTA HOTEL AT THE ELEVATORS BUT
TH AT LIAST FRUR TH TRUCK
STAGED THERE MEAN IT WAS COMPACT MEAN IT WAS CROWDED IT WAS LITERALLY CROWDED AT THE ELEVATOR BANK AND REMEMBER THEM LOOKING AT ME SAYING WHAT DO YOU MEAN THESE ELEVATORS DONT GO THROUGH BECAUSE WENT TO THE HOTEL MANAGER AND SAID CAN WE GET HERE FROM THERE HE SAID NO
HE ASSIGNED ME HIS DESK CLERK THE DESK CLERK ESCORTED US OUT AND LED ME THE WAY BECAUSE HAD NEVER BEEN INTO THE TRADE CENTER FROM THIS ROUTE AND HE ASSURED ME THE CONCOURSE LEVEL COULD GET BACK TO AT THE CONCOURSE LEVEL KNEW ONCE GOT UP THE FRONT WAS FAMILIAR WITH THE FRONT END MALL AREA OF THE CONCOURSE LEVEL KNEW COULD GET
BACK OVER TO WITHOUT GETTING KILLED NOT
REALIZING THAT IT COLLAPSED
BUT WE NEVER KNEW WE NEVER KNEW
UNTIL AFTER THE EVENT PHYSICALLY SEEN
COLLAPSED
BROSNAN
COLLAPSING BECAUSE SEEN IT JUST CRUMBLING DOWN
AND SAID IF IT COMES DOWN WERE DEAD YOU KNOW
WE WERE REALLY JUST LOOKING FOR PLACE TO DIE
DID NOT THINK WAS GOING TO LIVE THROUGH THE EVENT
WHAT HAPPENED WHEN YOU WERE IN THE

19 CONCOURSE LEVEL OR THE LOBBY OF TOWER AROUND THE
TIME THAT ALL KINDS DUST WAS
IN
BLOWING
BROSNAN
OH YOU COULDNT SEE IT WAS PITCH BLACK PITCH BLACK AND WAS IT THE CONCOURSE LEVEL
OR THE LOBBY OF TOWER YOU WERE IN
NO THE STREET LEVEL FROM WEST STREET
WHICH IM GOING TO CALL IT THE CONCOURSE LEVEL
OKAY
NOW ITS NOT THE FIRST FLOOR BECAUSE
THATS NOT WHERE THE FIRE COMMAND THE FIRE COMMAND STATION WOULD HAVE BEEN THE FLOOR ABOVE ME
KNEW THIS WAS NOT MY ASSIGNMENT MY ASSIGNMENT WAS HERE KNEW WHERE WAS GOING TO JUST
NEVER MADE IT
WHO WAS WITH YOU WHAT UNITS DO YOU
REMEMBER IN TOWER WHEN YOU WERE THERE
WENT IN GOOD 200 YARDS IN MAYBE
150 FEET IN AS RIGHT SHORT OF THE PATH STATION
RETREATED BACK WHEN SEEN 238 COMING IN THE HALLWAY HAD JUST COME IN HAD JUST HOOKED UP WITH 238
AT AN ELEVATOR BANK HE WAS ASKING THE SECURITY GUARD IS IT MANNED FIRE DEPARTMENT AND WAS ABOUT TO TELL HIM THIS IS NOT OUR ASSIGNMENT

20 THIS IS WERE GOING TO CUT ACROSS AND GO TO
WITH THAT BKWN IN THAT WAS IT IT WAS PITCH BLACK AND WE WERE BEING THROWN BACK DOWN
BROSNAN
50 FEET DOWN
BUT RECALL IT WAS RIGHT WALL OUT FOR ME
TRIED TO GO BACK LEFT FOR MY MEMBERS AND IT WAS NOT
POSSIBLE WE WERE NOW GETTING GROUPS OF CIVILIANS COMING TO THE LIGHTS AND THE PEOPLE WERE JUST COMING TO OUR LIGHT WHICH SAVED THE LAST PEOPLE THAT WE
VISUALLY SEEN
THEY OBSERVED THE EXPLOSION AND THE HALLWAY
DISAPPEARED THEY THOUGHT THE HALLWAY BLEW UP WHERE HAD COME FROM THEY THOUGHT THEY SEEN DEBRIS
COMING DOWN AND SAID THE LIEUTENANTS DEAD MY
SENIOR GUY REGROUPS THE COMPANY HE YELLS OUT REGROUP THEYRE UNDER LIGHT DEBRIS ALSO
THE SENIOR KID THAT HAD VINNIE PICCIANO WHO HAD COME DOWN FROM ENGINE WHO HAD WORKED MIDTOWN
FOR EIGHT YEARS HIS NEXT THING HE YELLED OUT ARE
THERE ANY PORT AUTHORITY PERSONNEL HERE AND WE HAD IN OUR VISUAL RANGE WHEN WE WALKED IN IT WAS
PERHAPS UP TO 200 PEOPLE IN OUR VISUAL RANGE WHICH IS NOT LOT FOR THAT BUILDING BUT WE HAD PEOPLE
MILLING AROUND AND NOT REALLY IN URGENT THEY
HALLWAY

21 WERENT RUNNING THEY WERE JUST THERE YOU KNOW
LIGHTS THEY JUST CAME TO US LIKE FIRE FLIES THEY JUST CAME RIGHT TO OUR LIGHTS
WE CAME OUT WITH 20 TO 30 PEOPLE ON WEST STREET ME AND 238 SOMETHING IN THAT VICINITY
THESE KIDS DEEPER IN ACTUALLY CAME OUT WITH MORE PEOPLE IT COULD HAVE BEEN ANYWHERE FROM 50 TO 100
PEOPLE THAT THEY GOT OUT THEY ACTUALLY GOT THEM OUT TWO DIFFERENT EXITS THEY GOT THEM OUT THROUGH THE CHURCH STREET SIDE UP TO CHURCH AND VESEY AND THEY GOT THE SECOND TIME THE LAST TIME THEY LEFT THE BUILDING WITH AN UNCONSCIOUS MAN THEY WENT OUT TO VESEY AND WEST BUT THEY ACTUALLY MADE THREE
TRIPS IN BECAUSE IT WAS LIGHTER CONDITIONS IN THIS SIDE OF THE BUILDING THAN THERE WAS OUTSIDE IT WAS HEAVY BLACK SMOKE OVER HERE CONDITIONS LIGHTENED
AS THEY WENT THROUGH THE BUILDING BUT NONE OF US KNEW THAT THERE WAS COLLAPSE
THE KIDS HAD AN EXTRAORDINARY DAY THE SENIOR KID ACTUALLY SAID BECAUSE THEY GOT MAINTENANCE GUY THE MAINTENANCE GUY SAID IF YOU CAN GET ME OUT OF THE BUILDING KNOW WHERE THE EXITS ARE
BROSNAN
LIAVING TH BUILDING TH
THE FIRE DEPARTMENT UNITS AND WHEN WE PUT ON OUR
PR

22
HE WAS THEIR ASSURED THING TO GET THEM OUT AND FOR
WENT STR
EVEN THOUGHT OF TAKING THESE HALLWAYS BACK TOWARDS
THANK GOD
BUT ACTUALLY ON THEIR THIRD SEARCH IN THEY
ENCOUNTERED HEAVY RUBBLE AND HEAVY FIRE FIELD IN THAT CONCOURSE LEVEL WHICH THEY DIDNT KNOW WHAT IT WAS THEY JUST KNEW THAT THEY ACTUALLY STRETCHED
LIBERTY
THE HOUSE LINE AND THERE WAS NO WATER
THEY SAID
BROSNAN
TO LEAVE
TIME THEY HAD SPLIT INTO TEAMS ONE HAD FOUND AN UNCONSCIOUS MAN BY THE
IN THAT VICINITY 50 60 FEET FROM PATH IN BEHIND THINK THERE IS BANANA
REPUBLIC IN THAT VICINITY THAT WAS THE LAST GUY THEY PUT HIM IN CHAIR THEY ROLLED HIM OUT TO THE EXIT THAT GOES OUT BY WEST BROADWAY AS THEY GOT TO WEST BROADWAY THE SECOND COLLAPSE OCCURS WHICH THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT IS
THEY ARE NOW BLOWING THEY ACTUALLY LOSE THE GUY THEY HAD JUST BROUGHT OUT IN THE DEBRIS FIELD
THEY COULD NOT FIND HIM THEY LOST HIM AND THEY ACTUALLY HAD TO DIG FIREMAN PICCIANO HAD TO BE DUG OUT OF DEBRIS FIELD THINK FIREMAN BERNTSEN
OKAY
TIME AT THIS
OF THE TEAMS
PATH SUBWAY

23 DUG HIM OUT GALLASO WALKER AND MURPHY GO UP WEST
BR
BROSNAN
AND PICCIAN FR HIM THEY ACTUALLY GO UP CHURCH STREET
THEY ALL EVENTUALLY MEET EACH OTHER AT TRIAGE AREA AT ENGINES QUARTERS AND THATS WHERE THEY
ALL WOUND UP THEY ALL SUFFERED COUPLE OF THEM SUFFERED SIGNIFICANT INJURIES BUT THEY ALL GOT OUT WE WERE JUST LUCKY IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH
SKILL ITS JUST LITTLE BIT OF KNOWLEDGE GOT ME OUT OF THE HOTEL IF WASTED THREE MINUTES THERE
WAS DEAD WOULD HAVE BEEN AS DEAD AS EVERYBODY IN THERE
BUT WE NEVER DID ENCOUNTER OUR COMMAND WE NEVER DID ENCOUNTER OR LINK UP WITH OUR COMMAND POST WE JUST NEVER DID WE HEARD TRANSMISSIONS
ABOUT WHAT NOT TO TAKE ELEVATORS WHAT CHANNELS TO
GO TO BUT WE NEVER PHYSICALLY MET CHIEF THAT WAS
IN CHARGE OF WE JUST
WHEN YOU WERE WHEREVER YOU WERE AND FELL
DOWN WHAT CAME OVER YOUR HANDI TALK LOT OF
MAYDAYS RIGHT NOTHING
NOTHING CAME OVER
NOTHING WELL FIRST OFF MIGHT HAVE

24 BEEN DEAF FROM THE CONCUSSION BUT ASKED MY
WH A1S FURTHER IN AND THEY DIDNT HEAR TRANSMISSION AND MEAN GOT OUT WE
COULDNT GET OUR MAYDAYS IN TRIED MAYDAY RIGHT AWAY AND THERE WERE SO MANY MAYDAYS
MY LAST PHYSICAL TRANSMISSION THE THING THAT SAVED MY LIFE IS WHEN HAD FOUND THE MASK AND WAS WORKING MY WAY BACK TOWARDS RECEIVED TRUCK
OV MAYDAY MAYDAY IVE FALLEN SEVERAL FLOORS
WAIT FOR AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT NO ACKNOWLEDGMENT HE COMES ON THE AIR AGAIN TRUCK OV MAYDAY MAYDAY IVE FALLEN SEVERAL FLOORS IM RUNNING
OUT OF AIR GO 212 TO TRUCK WHATS YOUR LOCATION WITH THAT HEAR HEY BROTHER WE GOTCHA WE GOTCHA TURN ON YOUR PASS BUT CANT PICK UP THE DESIGNATION OF THE TRUCK OTHER THAN THAT THEY ARE WORKING THEIR WAY TO TRUCK THAT PART PICKED UP
TRUCK WE GOTCHA TURN ON YOUR PASS BROTHER WE GOT ROOF ROPE WELL COME AND GET
YOU
BROSNAN
BUT DONT KNOW WHO IT WAS SO THEN CEASE AND DESIST BECAUSE WAS STEPPING ON HIS TRANSMISSIONS
BUT IT ACTUALLY FIXATED ME IT STOPPED ME

25 GOT MY OWN MAYDAYS AND THERE IS
BROSNAN
NICE CHRIST
CAN IM BY MYS AND THEN
SAID ILL GO WITH YOU BUT IT
RUN INTO 271
DELAYED ME ENOUGH THAT WASNT BACK IN THE
BUILDING IF HAD FOUND THE MASK FIVE MINUTES SOONER IM BACK IN THE BUILDING YOU KNOW AND WOULD HAVE BEEN HISTORY ALSO BUT IT WAS JUST AN
EXTRAORDINARY DAY IT WAS JUST MATTER OF WHAT LUCK YOU HAD IF IT HADNT TAKEN ME SO LONG TO FIND
THE MASK BECAUSE MOST OF THE RIGS WERE STRIPPED CLEAN JUST HAPPENED TO FIND SOME KIND OF ONE OF THOSE MASKS THEYRE TETHERED TO
YES
SO SAID ITS BETTER THAN NOTHING
THATS FOR SURE
BUT THERE WERE ELECTRICAL FIRES STARTING
ON MY WAY OUT COULD SEE COULD ACTUALLY SEE
THE ELECTRICAL ARC AND IT WAS LIKE THE WHITE
LIGHTS
ABOVE US SO WAS ACTUALLY USING THAT FOR REFERENCE CEILING FLOOR THATS HOW GOT REFERENCE BACK ON MY FEET WAS JUST WATCHING THE CEILING AND IT WAS ARCING WE WERE EXTRAORDINARILY LUCKY BECAUSE WHEN CAME OUT THERE WAS NOBODY DIDNT RUN INTO ANOTHER FIREMAN UP UNTIL GOT ONTO

26 BROADWAY WALKED ALL THIS WAY AND DIDNT FIND
ANYB
WE ENCOUNTERED BUT HAD WALKED UP THIS WAY
HAD MISSED THAT DEBRIS FIELD THAT WAS HERE BUT EVEN WHEN WALKED BACK WALKED AROUND THE DEBRIS FIELD AND JUST DIDNT FIND ANYBODY AND IM NOT
BROSNAN
REMEMBER WAS 20 KNOW THAT
MADE IT PAST TRUCK BUT OUT OF ALL THE TRUCKS KNEW THAT WAS
THE ONLY THING COULD REMEMBER WAS 20 TRUCK
WE TRIED TO DO AN INTELLIGENCE REPORT OF WHO SEEN LAST WHICH COMPANIES IN THAT LOBBY ONE KID
KNEW THE 8TH BATTALION CHIEF CHIEF DEANGELIS WE KNEW HE WAS THERE AND THAT WAS THE CHIEF TOLD HIM CHIEF IM NOT ASSIGNED HERE IM LEAVING
THOUGHT RAN INTO JUST LOOKING FACIALLY
THE CHIEF MET IN THE HALLWAY GOING OUT THOUGHT THAT WAS THE 12 BATTALION CHIEF AND DIDNT KNOW
HIS NAME
SCHEFFOLD
YEAH IM NOT SURE IF THERE WAS TWO 12
BATTALION CHIEFS THERE BUT WASNT CERTAIN BECAUSE HE TOLD US DONT USE HIGH BANKS OF
SURE THE LAST PHYSICAL THING TRUCK HAVE NO IDEA HOW CLOSE
TRUCK WAS CRUSHED SO OBVIOUSLY

BROSNAN
ELEVATORS HE SAID THEYRE COLLAPSING BUT
WE
WE JUST
KNEW THAT FR TH RADI TRANSMISSION OTHER THAN THAT WE REALLY
ALREADY
NEVER GOT INTO COMMAND POST
IN THE LOBBY OF TOWER DID YOU NOTICE
ANY ELEVATORS ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT THE ELEVATORS OR THE ELEVATOR DOORS WAS THERE FIRE IN THE ELEVATOR SHAFT WERE THEY BLOWN IN THE DOORS
ANYTHING
LIKE THAT
NO THEY HAD ASKED ME THAT WHERE THE
EXPLOSION CAME FROM THAT ENCOUNTERED THE EXPLOSION CAME RIGHT FROM THE WAY HAD ENTERED IT CAME RIGHT FROM IN BACK OF ME BECAUSE WAS STANDING NEXT WAS ON THE FAR SIDE OF THE BANK AWAY FROM THE OFFICER FROM 238 RIGHT AT AN ELEVATOR DOOR AND NOTHING CAME FROM MY LEFT SIDE EVERYTHING HIT ME FROM THE BLAST FROM MY LEFT AND WAS ACTUALLY LOOKING AT THE ELEVATORS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT FLOORS THEY SERVED TO SEE IF ANYTHING WAS MOVING BUT KNEW IT WAS NOT OUR ASSIGNMENT SO WAS GOING TO JUST LEAVE THERE AND JUST GRAB 238 AND PROCEED IN AFTER HE FINISHED TALKING TO THE SECURITY GUARD
BUT THE GOOD PART WAS THE SECURITY PEOPLE
27

28 STAYED ON SITE THE PORT AUTHORITY PEOPLE STAYED ON SITE AND THEY UR ZY UT THEY UR SURE
WAY OUT IF THEY WERENT THERE THINK ID HAVE
BROSNAN
LOST THE KIDS AND HAD PROBIE
HOLDING ON TO PEOPLE HE HAD NO IDEA
KIDS FROM MIDTOWN THEYRE DEAD HE MADE THE SMARTEST DECISION HE LATCHED ON TO PORT
AUTHORITY PERSONNEL AND THEN HE PHYSICALLY AS THEY MOVED THROUGH THAT CONCOURSE LEVEL WHICH IS CONSIDERABLE DISTANCE FROM HERE TO GET OVER TO HERE TO FIND THESE EXITS THEY USED STORES AS REFERENCE POINTS THEY WERE WIPING THE STORES CLEAN TO SEE WHAT THE NAME OF THE STORE WAS AND THE WOMAN
ACTUALLY KNEW IN THEIR TRACK OF WOMEN THAT THEY HAD ACTUALLY KNEW BY STORES YOURE MOVING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION SO THEY ACTUALLY REFERENCED OFF STORES AND THE PORT AUTHORITY MAINTENANCE GUY THEY WERE HIS EYES BUT THESE KIDS LED THEM TO SAFETY
AS THEY GOT PEOPLE UP THE FIRST TIME TO THE STREET AND TOLD THEM TO GO NORTH THEY DID ENCOUNTER THREE FBI PEOPLE BELIEVE AND EVEN SOME PORT AUTHORITY POLICE THEN HAD HELPED THEM ON THEIR
THIRD WHEN THEY DID THEIR LAST SEARCH OF THAT AREA WHICH THEIR LAST SEARCH WAS FROM THE THEY
HE WAS ACTUALLY KNOW SOME

29 ACTUALLY SEARCHED THE PORT AUTHORITY STATION TWO
GUYS WENT TH AND THEY FOUND BODY BEHIND THE PATH AND THAT WAS THE LAST
PERSON THEY SEEN IN THEIR VISUAL RANGE THEY DIDNT ENCOUNTER ANYBODY ELSE THAT WAS THE LAST GUY THAT THEY HAD SEEN THERE WAS NOBODY ELSE MOVING IN
THEIR VISUAL RANGE AND THEY ACTUALLY ENCOUNTERED THE DEBRIS FIELD IN TWO THEY JUST GOT OUT THE DOOR WHEN THE SECOND ONE COLLAPSED AND IT BLEW THEM OUT INTO THE STREET BUT IF THEY STAYED MINUTE
LONGER DONT KNOW THINK THEY WERE IN THE ONLY SURVIVABLE PART OF THAT BUILDING WE JUST HIT THE TWO SURVIVABLE ENDS ON THE VESEY STREET SIDE
WE WERE LUCKY
DID 212 LOSE ANYBODY NO
NO WE ACCOUNTED FOR EVERYBODY
EVERYBODY WENT TO THE HOSPITAL WITH SCRAPES WE HAD ONE KID ON MEDICAL LEAVE THAT WAS THE KID
PICCIANO
HOW LONG DID IT TAKE TO GET HANDLE ON
THAT YOUR GUYS WERE OKAY KNOW EVERYBODY WAS SCATTERED
THOUGHT THEY WERE LYING TO ME AT THE COMMAND POST BECAUSE EMS SAID ALL YOUR MEMBERS
BROSNAN

30 HAVE BEEN REMOVED TO THE HOSPITAL FOUND OUT
TH FIRST CALL THEY LIT MAKE IN TH
CALLED BACK TO THE FIREHOUSE AND THEY SAID ALL
MEMBERS WERE ACCOUNTED FOR THEY WERE ALL MINOR INJURIES AND THEYVE BEEN TREATED AND THEYVE BEEN RELEASED WAS ECSTATIC NOT REALIZING HOW MANY GUYS WERE GONE BUT IT WAS AGONIZING FOR THREE HOURS
IT MUST HAVE BEEN
WELL BECAUSE HAD LEFT THEM YOU KNOW
DOING THE RIGHT THING GOING TO FIND THE COMMAND POST WE WALKED IN YOU GUYS WAIT FOR ME IM
GOING TO FIND THE COMMAND POST
LUCKILY
THE BUILDING GET TO
238 COME UP BEHIND ME BECAUSE KNEW ONCE GOT BY THE PATH KNEW HOW TO WAS TWO MINUTES AWAY FROM BEING IN TWO
BROSNAN
IT WAS JUST FLUKEY HOW IT WORKED OUT THAT DAY BUT WE KNEW
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN WERE GOING TO BREAK FOR ONE SECOND ITS NOW 1445 IM
GOING TO SHUT THE TAPE OFF FOR ONE MINUTE
RECESS TAKEN
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN ITS STILL
1445 WERE RESUMING

31 THATS PRETTY MUCH IT CHIEF WE JUST
WAITED AT TH AND WAITED
WE GAVE THE LOCATION OF THE LAST PEOPLE WE HAD
VISUALLY SEEN
ENGINE
BROSNAN ENGINE 212 THIS IS TAPE
BROSNAN
WHICH WASNT LOT
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN OKAY JUST
HAVE TO READ LITTLE STATEMENT AT THE END HERE AND THEN WELL BE DONE THIS CONCLUDES
THE INTERVIEW WITH LIEUTENANT BROSNAN OF
212 THE TIME IS NOW 1446 HOURS THINK LIEUTENANT BROSNAN FOR HIS INTERVIEW AND THATS ALL IM SHUTTING THE TAPE
OQO
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN IM CONDUCTING
AN INTERVIEW WITH LIEUTENANT BROSNAN NEIL
HAD ALREADY FINISHED TAPE AND HAD TO START
TAPE AND HAVE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT CHIEF DOWNEY CHIEF BARBARA IN THE STREET JUST WANT TO CONTINUE THE INTERVIEW THE TIME IS NOW 1659 HOURS JUST TELL ME THAT AGAIN
FIREFIGHTER VASQUEZ WHO DROVE CAPTAIN STACKPOLE TO THE SITE WAS AT THE COMMAND POST OR IN THE VICINITY OF CHIEF GANCIS COMMAND POST AND HE

32 HAD OBSERVED OR HEARD SOME OF THE FOLLOWING HE HAD
CHIEF CR AND CHIEF BARBARA WH
WERE GOING TO BE THE COMMANDERS IN TOWER HEADED
ACROSS THEY HAD JUST LEFT CHIEF GANCIS COMMAND POST TO GO OVER TO TOWER CHIEF DOWNEY HE BELIEVES WAS GETTING READY TO DO HAZARDOUS COLLAPSE ASSESSMENT OF THE BUILDING AND HE HAD JUST LEFT THE COMMAND POST LOOKING AT TOWER AS FAR AS HOW MUCH DAMAGE WAS DONE TO TOWER THATS RIGHT ABOUT WHEN TOWER COLLAPSED AND THAT WAS HIS LAST OBSERVATION OF THOSE THREE INDIVIDUALS
LAST
IN DIVISION 11 HE DROVE STACKPOLE AND SOMEBODY ELSE DONT KNOW HE MIGHT HAVE DRIVEN CROSS
IM NOT SURE IF HE DROVE CROSS THAT DAY BUT HE DEFINITELY DROVE CAPTAIN STACKPOLE WAS WITH HIM AND CAPTAIN STACKPOLE WAS WITH CHIEF CROSS AND BELIEVE BOTH OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS WERE FOUND IN
CLOSE PROXIMITY TO ONE ANOTHER BUT THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN BELIEVE THE COMMANDERS IN THINK BARBARA
RIGHT BARBARA WAS SENT TO BE THE COMMANDER IN
BROSNAN
VASQUEZS
BOBBY VASQUEZ HE WAS WORKING LIGHT DUTY

33 HE WAS TO BE THE STAFF CHIEF IN CHARGE OF
SO THEY NEVER REALLY GOT FOOTHOLD IN
TOO MUCH
NO
MEAN BY THE TIME THEY STARTED TO
ORGANIZE
PRETTY MUCH HOW INTERPRET IT WE WERE ALL SCRAMBLING FROM THE MOMENT WE GOT OFF THE RIG
MEAN WE SCRAMBLED FOR COVER AND IM SURE THE CHIEFS HAD THE SAME PROBLEMS IT WAS MONUMENTAL TO EVALUATE NEVER SEEN THAT MUCH FIRE IN
BUILDING IN TWO BUILDINGS IN MY LIFE IT WAS JUST EXTRAORDINARY SAID HOWARE WE GOING TO DO IT ALL WE COULD THINK WAS BRING EXTRA CYLINDERS
BECAUSE WERE GOING TO NEED LOTS OF CYLINDERS AND THEN WE SAID THAT WALKING UP 50 FLOORS IS GOING TO TAKE US AN HOUR THATS WHAT WE SAID
IT WOULD HAVE TAKEN YOU LONGER TWO HOURS
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN OKAY THIS IS THE SECOND CONCLUSION THIS IS THE CONCLUSION OF THIS TAPE AT 1702 HOURS THE CONCLUSION OF THE INTERVIEW WITH LIEUTENANT
BROSNAN

BROSNAN
BROSNAN
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN THIS IS CHIEF MALKIN OF THE SAFETY BATALION ONCE AGAIN
ITS 1703 HOURS IM STILL TALKING TO LIEUTENANT BROSNAN HE JUST TOLD ME
ABOUT IN RESPONSE TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER GO AHEAD TELL ME THAT AGAIN
WHILE US AND 221
NOTE
34

35
BROSNAN
THIS IS AT PARK AVENUE AND AROUND WHERE
WAS THIS
YES THAT IS UNUSUAL

TILLARY
BROSNAN
YOU LEFT FROM QUARTERS
LIFT FR QUART
AND HOW DID YOU WIND UP AT PARK AND
ALL FIRE DEPARTMENT UNITS WERE INSTRUCTED
TO USE THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE WOULD BE HELD OPEN FOR US WE WERE ALL HEADED
TOWARDS THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE IT WAS THE QUICKEST WAY WE COULD GET THERE
DOWN RIGHT DOWN ONTO PARK AVENUE AND TILLARY DOWN TO THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE WE WERE INSTRUCTED TO
USE THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE ALL UNITS RESPONDING ON THAT FIFTH ALARM THAT WAS OUR INSTRUCTIONS
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN OKAY AGAIN WE STOP AT 1706 HOURS
36
File No. 9110329
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER STEVE FERRIOLO
   Interview Date:  December 12, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN:  The date is December
     12, 2001.  It's 1417 hours.  This is Battalion
     Chief Malkin of the safety battalion.
          I am conducting an interview with Firefighter
     1st Grade Steve Ferriolo, Engine 207.  We are at
     the quarters of 207.  There is nobody else in the
     room.
     Q.   The interview begins right now.
     A.   On the morning of September 11, we responded
to the trade tower at approximately -- oh, it was just
before the second plane hit, because I noticed as we
were going over the Manhattan Bridge both towers were
burning.
          We arrived over on West Street, just south of
Liberty Street a little after nine o'clock.  At that
time, the members and the officer grabbed their
roll-ups, the standpipe kit, and reported in to the
command post.  That was the last time I saw them.
          That's basically it.  I don't know what they
were assigned to do.  A few hours after that, I went
around looking for them.  I came upon two different
command posts.  They had no knowledge that 207 was
there.
          I found out there was a third command post
Ferriolo
3
that got -- was caught in the collapse, so they
probably reported in to that one.  The two that I did
find did not know that they were even there.
     Q.   Where were the two that you did find?
     A.   Might have been on Broadway.  One was here on
Broadway.
          BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN:  He's looking at the
     map.  He's looking at Broadway and John Street.
     Q.   Dey Street or John Street, that's the first
one?
     A.   Yeah, around there.  The other one was over
here on West.
     Q.   On West Street near the north walk bridge?
     A.   West Street, right, West.
     Q.   You checked those two out, and then there was
a third one?
     A.   When I went to the second one, they told me
that there was a third one that got caught in the
collapse.  So they probably reported in to that one.
Like I said, I don't know what their assignment was,
which tower they were assigned to go into.
Q. Okay.
     A.   This was later on in the day, like two
o'clock in the afternoon.
Ferriolo
4
     Q.   What did you wind up doing with the pumper?
Did you hook up or you just stood where you were?
     A.   Well, when we first arrived, I hooked up as
they were bringing in their roll -- you know, they took
their roll-ups, their equipment, and they went to
report in to the command post.  I was hooking up on
West Street just south of Liberty.
     Q.   West and Liberty, good.
     A.   Like I said, that was the last time I saw
those guys.
          Later on during the day, we moved the pumper
onto Liberty, and we would be relayed water by the
marine unit.  We set up our manifold, and there were
units taking water off our manifold during the day, and
that's where it stayed for a few days after that.
     Q.   Your manifold -- what is a manifold?
     A.   The satellite.
     Q.   Oh, the satellite, okay.
     A.   We had the satellite with us.
     Q.   Perfect, okay.
          How was the water pressure?  Well, from the
marine company, it was good.
     A.   Marine yeah.
     Q.   Marine is good.
Ferriolo
5
     A.   After the second tower fell, we lost all
hydrant water in the area.
Q. Right.
     A.   So then we had to bring in marine to pump in
whatever 3 1/2 lines we had coming in off the marine
boats.  That was the only water supply we had.
     Q.   Did you stay in that area pumping and so
forth until late in the day?
     A.   Mid afternoon I started walking around
looking for them.  I did the whole perimeter.  It was
three, four, five o'clock in the afternoon.  I came to
realize that -- you know, that they weren't around.
     Q.   How did you get home from the scene?  What
time did you leave?
     A.   About eleven o'clock at night.  I left the
pumper with a fireman that came in from Staten Island.
He was manning the pumps.  I came back, and I caught a
ride with one of the other firemen that came in from
home in his truck.
     Q.   Do you remember hearing any specific things
on the handie-talkie?  I know Channel 1 was crazy.
          Do you remember any orders?  Anything
specific?  Anything unusual?
     A.   After the second tower collapsed, there was a
Ferriolo
6
lot of Maydays, casual Maydays.  No, nothing out of the
ordinary.
     Q.   Do you remember hearing anything before the
tower -- were you guys there before the towers
collapsed?
A. Yes.
     Q.   Do you remember hearing any specific orders
to companies?  Go here, do that, anything like that?
     A.   No, no.
     Q.   Do you remember --
     A.   Not that I can remember.  I'm sure there
was.
Q. Yes.
          Do you remember now -- can you place any
other companies where they were operating?
          Can you place any members, friends of yours,
other firemen?
     A.   No, like I said, because the towers are --
our rig was two or three blocks away.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   That's where I stayed.
     Q.   Yes.
     A.   I don't know even where the command post was,
who they reported in to, and what they were assigned to
Ferriolo
7
do.  I visually couldn't see where they went.
          I don't even know where that command post
was.  I would imagine it was near the towers.
     Q.   Yes.  That's about it?
     A.   Yeah.
          BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN:  This concludes the
     interview with Fireman Ferriolo of Engine 207.
          The time is now 1423 hours, and I thank you
     again for the interview.

FILE NO 9110330
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER STEVE PICCERILL
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 12 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY MAUREEN MCCORMICK

BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN THE DATE IS 121201 THE TIME IS 1511 HOURS
THIS IS CHIEF MALKIN OF THE SAFETY BATTALION OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT
IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH FIREMAN STEVE PICCERILL OF ENGINE 204 WE ARE IN THE
QUARTERS OF ENGINE 224
THERE IS NOBODY ELSE IN THE OFFICE BUT THE
TWO OF US AND WHAT FOLLOWS IS THE INTERVIEW THE WITNESS OKAY GOT TO WORK LITTLE
LATE THAT DAY ABOUT MAYBE ABOUT QUARTER TO NINE WITH THE TRAFFIC
WALKED IN THE FIREHOUSE AND THE GUY SAYS PLANE HIT THE TRADE CENTER THOUGHT IT WAS
LITTLE
CHANGED BECAUSE KNOW ON THE THIRD ALARM WE RE GOING TO GO
SO CAME DOWNSTAIRS NEW YORK HAD IT ON TV AND WE WERE WATCHING IT AND WE ARE SAYING WOW LOOKS LIKE PRETTY GOOD JOB YOU KNOW
WITH THAT WE GET THE RUN TO RESPOND BUT
TH RAPELYE
IMM
STREET SO WE WENT DOWN THERE AND WE
PLANE ANYWAY GO RUNNING UPSTAIRS GET
TH TRADE CENTER THEY KEPT US ON HAMILTON AVENUE AND
US

PICCERILL
WERE ACTUALLY BUFFING THE JOB YOU KNOW WE WERE LOOKING AT IT AND SAYING WOW THATS SOME JOB
ALL OF SUDDEN TURNED AWAY AND HEARD TREMENDOUS EXPLOSION AND TURNED AROUND THAT
WAS THE SECOND PLANE HITTING THE TRADE CENTER SO THATS WHEN THEY TOLD US TO RESPOND
MEANWHILE WE THOUGHT THE TUNNEL WAS CLEAR AT THAT TIME FOR EMERGENCY TRAFFIC WHEN WE GOT IN THE TUNNEL IT WASNT CLEAR IT WAS WE WERE STUCK IN THERE FOR MAYBE TEN MINUTES DONT KNOW THATS WHEN STARTED TO QET LITTLE NERVOUS BECAUSE WAS AFRAID THAT SOMEONE IN THE CARS JUST YOU KNOW FIGURING IN THE TUNNEL THIS WOULD BE PLACE TO HIT ALSO
WE FINALLY GOT OUT OF THE TUNNEL WE WERE
DRIVING OUT OF THE TUNNEL UP WEST STREET AND
WE RE SEEING BODY PARTS IN THE STREET TORSOS
CHUNKS OF FLESH PARTS OF THE AIRPLANE LANDING
CAR FIRES EVERYWHERE IT WAS LIKE WAR ZONE
HAD THE NOZZLE SO HAD THE WINDOW RIGHT THANDIM UP AT THTW
SAYING HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PUT THIS THING OUT LET ALONE ANYTHING ELSE
GEAR

PICCERILL
SO WE GOT OUT OF OUR RIG WE STOPPED ON WEST STREET SOME PLACE AND WE GOT OUT OF THE RIG AND THERE WAS CHIEF DONT KNOW WHO IT WAS BUT HE TOLD US TO WAIT BY THIS UNDERGROUND PARKING GARAGE IN THE STAGING AREA
SO WE ALL GOT OFF THE RIG AND WE WERE JUST
HE TOLD US TO TAKE OUR TURNOUT COATS OFF OUR HELMETS AND OUR TANKS BECAUSE HE SAID
WE RE PROBABLY GOING TO BE HERE FOR LITTLE WHILE HE DIDNT WANT US TO HEAT UP
SO WE WERE ALL JUST KIND OF STANDINQ THERE
LOOKING AT IT AND LOT OF STUFF RUNNING THROUGH YOUR MIND AT THIS TIME
THATS WHEN THE BODIES STARTED COMING DOWN
YOU KNOW STOPPED COUNTING AFTER SIX BUT DONT KNOW HOW MANY BODIES WERE COMING DOWN WE
WERE WAITING FIGURED WE WERE GOING TO BE GOING IN THE BUILDING SOON
WAS WALKING BACK UP TO THE
STANDING
FR TH TUNN AND IT SOUNDED LIKE THUNDER COMING DOWN AND HEARD
LIK
AND JUST SAW STUFF
SOMEONE HE SAID RUN

PICCERILL
FOR YOUR LIFE THE TOWERS FALLING
LOOKED UP AND JUST SAW THIS THING
COMING AND WE ALL JUST RAN RAN INTO THE TUNNEL WE GOT IN THERE AND DONT KNOW HOW MANY GUYS WERE THERE MAYBE MAYBE 30 OR 40 GUYS KNOW 211 WAS THERE WITH US 210 224 WAS WITH US WHO ELSE THATS ALL CAN REMEMBER OFFHAND 221 WAS WITH US
WE WERE ALL KIND OF MAKING OUR WAY THROUGH
THIS UNDERGROUND GARAGE AND NOW ITS STARTING TO QET LOUSY FROM THE SMOKE AND ITS BANKINQ DOWN
AND WE WERE TRYING TO FIND OUR WAY OUT
WE FOUND OUR WAY TO DOORWAY IN STAIRWELL
FIGURING WE WERE GOING TO GET OUT AND THE DOOR WAS LOCKED NOT ONE OF US HAD ANY KIND OF
FORCIBLE ENTRY TOOLS SO WE JUST RAN
NOW IM SAYING OH SHIT NOW IM GOING TO
IM GOING TO SUFFOCATE IN HERE ALONG WITH 40 OTHER GUYS AND WHO COMES FLYING UP THE STAIRS OUT OF
THE SMOKE THIS LONELY JANITOR SAYING GOT KEY FOR THAT DOOR
BING TH GUY UP FUMBLING TH KEYS AND HE FINALLY GETS THE DOOR OPEN AND WE GET OUT AND WAS LIKE WOW WOW WE RE OUT OF

PICCERILL
THAT
SO WHEN WE GOT OUT IM NOT REALLY SURE WHERE
IT WAS CHIEF WE WERE IN THIS MAYBE
COURTYARD OR SOMETHING ADJACENT TO THE FIRST TOWER THAT WAS STILL ON FIRE AND IM LOOKING UP AT
THAT AND IM LOOKING AT ONE OUR OF OUR GUYS GARY HE GOT HURT PRETTY BAD AT THE TIME HE WAS
SITTING IN THE AMBULANCE OUR LIEUTENANT GOT HURT THERE TOO HE WAS LAYING ON THE GROUND SO WE
PACKAGED THEM ALL UP AND WE WERE GETTING INTO THE AMBULANCE AND DONT KNOW IF QUY SAID IT OVER THE BULLHORN OR PA OR SOMETHING DONT KNOW KNOW IT WAS LOUD VOICE
HE SAID THE TOWERS LEANING RUN FOR YOUR LIVES AND LOOK UP AND SEE THE TOWER COMING
OUR WAY AND IM SAYING THATS IT STEVE YOU AINT YOU KNOW YOU KNOW YOURE NOT GOING TO OUTRUN THE FREAKING TOWER
SO WE PUT THEM IN THE AMBULANCE AND WE JUST TOOK OFF WE JUST RAN FOR ALL WE WERE WORTH
RUNNING AND RUNNING AND IM LOOKING BACK AND YOU KN ITS CX AND THIS GUY MIK
MCKENNA AND TWO COPS DONT KNOW IF THEY WERE PORT AUTHORITY REGULAR COPS ALL RUNNING

PICCERILL
THROUGH THIS LOT AND WE SEE LITTLE SECURITY SHACK OR SOME KIND OF SHANTY
BUILDING MAYBE 10 BY 10
SO IM THE FIRST ONE TO HIT IT
MAYBE LITTLE
DIVE
BEHIND IT AND WE ALL DIVED BEHIND IT AND WE WERE
JUST HUNKERING DOWN THE STUFF IS HITTING US AND IT GETS PITCH BLACK AND CANT BREATHE
WE WERE ALL JUST SUCKING THE GROUND AND
FIGURED THE BUILDING THE TOWER DIDNT GET ME THE OTHER TOWER DIDNT SUFFOCATE NOW IM
QOINQ TO DIE HERE IN THIS SHIT
WE WERE JUST HUNKERING PRAYING JUST WAITING
FOR SOMETHING TO HAPPEN AND FINALLY IT STARTED TO LIGHTEN UP AND IT GOT LITTLE BIT LIGHTER
SAID TO MIKE MIKE ITS GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE
LIGHTENING UP LETS
AND WE GOT UP WE STILL COULDNT SEE GOOD BUT WE WERE KIND OF LIKE FEELING OUR WAY WE
FOUND FENCE WE FOUND HOLE IN THE FENCE WE JUST FOLLOWED THE WALL UNTIL WE FINALLY GOT OUT INTO CLEAN AIR AND RIGHT BY THE RIVER LITTLE
WALKWAY THINK ITS STUYV SCH LITTLE WALKWAY RIGHT BY THE RIVER AND WE CAME OUT THERE WAS HACKING OUT STUFF FOR TEN MINUTES

PICCERILL
THEN JUST SAT ON THE HENCH AND WAS SAYING
TO MYSELF THIS REALLY HAPPENED IT WAS REALLY AFTER THAT WAS BASICALLY GUESS SHOCKED
WAS JUST WAS JUST STANDING THERE WAS JUST SITTING THERE JUST CONTEMPLATING THAT WAS
REALLY
IT
MET UP WITH THE GUYS FROM 224 202
HUNG WITH THEM FOR LITTLE WHILE THEN WE WERE JUST
HANGING OUT WATCHING THE BUILDING READY TO GO THATS WHERE OUR CAPTAIN HAD FINALLY FOUND US ON
RECALL BECAUSE EVERYONE THOUQHT WE WERE DEAD
BECAUSE OUR RIG GOT DESTROYED
THAT WAS IT THE CAPTAIN SAYS YOURE GOING
TO THE HOSPITAL SAID TO THE CAPTAIN IM OKAY SAID IM ALIVE MAN
HE SAYS NO YOURE GOING TO THE HOSPITAL BECAUSE YOU LOOK LIKE SHIT HE SENT ME AND EDDIE
TO THE HOSPITAL AND THAT WAS IT
THEY CHECKED US OUT RAYS WHATEVER
AND FINALLY MADE IT BACK TO MY FIREHOUSE AND

PICCERILL
BY CHIEF MALKIN
DONT BLAME YOU
JUST COULDNT JUST FOR COUPLE OF DAYS IT WAS IT WAS LIKE VIDEOTAPE GOING ON IN YOUR HEAD FROM THE TIME IT HAPPENED TO THE TIME IT ENDED
UNBELIEVABLE
THATS BASICALLY IT CAME TO WORK THE NEXT DAY THE CAPTAIN SAYS WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING IN
WORK THIS IS
SAID DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO CAPTAIN FEEL SHOULD BE HERE
TH FIRST
WHICH WAS TH
DIDNT EVEN KNOW THIS BUT THE CHIEF SAID
HOW MANY GUYS FROM 204 WERE LOST THERE NONE
NONE
ONE GUY GARY DURING ALL THIS JUST BEFORE
GET HIT
HE NEEDED THREE MORE ENGINES TO GO INTO THE BUILDING
BUILDING

PICCERILL
SO OUR LIEUTENANT VOLUNTEERED THINK IT WAS 202 AND IM NOT SURE IT COULD HAVE BEEN 221
THE LIEUTENANT SAID TO LISTEN GO BACK TO
THE RIG GET SOME GLOVES BECAUSE YOU MIGHT BE DOING
LOT OF NASTY STUFF GET SEARCH LINE AND GET COUPLE OF SPARE SCOTTS
SO WENT BACK TO THE RIG HE GOT HIS STUFF AND WENT TO GET FLASHLIGHT HE WAS WALKING FROM THE RIG AND HE SEEN HE HEARD THE RUMBLE HE SEEN GUYS
RUNNING HE LOOKED UP AND THE BUILDING WAS COMING DOWN HE WAS LIKE SHOULD DIVE UNDER THE RIQ OR
SHOULD RUN WITH THE REST OF THEM
HE CHOSE TO RUN THATS WHAT SAVED HIS LIFE
BECAUSE THE RIG GOT DESTROYED BY ALL THE DEBRIS AND STUFF AND HE GOT THROWN UP AGAINST THE WALL AND HE
WAS HURT PRETTY HE HURT HIS BACK BUT HE WAS LUCKY MAN MEAN WE WERE ALL LUCKY THOUGHT GEEZ BUT
HE WAS VERY LUCKY
YOU KNOW WE THOUGHT HE WAS DEAD WE WERE IN
THAT UNDERGROUND GARAGE WE DID HEAD COUNT AND HE WAS MISSING AND EVERYONE SAID HE WENT BACK TO THE RIG
AND KN THAT WASNT YES
THING
AND WHEN LIKE SAID WE GOT OUT OF THAT
10

PICCERILL
GARAGE FINALLY THE UNDERGROUND PARKING GARAGE HE WAS SITTING IN AN AMBULANCE ALL COVERED IN BLOOD IN SHOCK
LIKE DEER IN THE HEADLIGHTS TYPE OF SHOCK WHERE HE DIDNT HAVE CLUE WHERE HE WAS
THATS REALLY IT THE WAY SAW IT ANYWAY ALL RIGHT THIS IS MAP OF THE TRADE
CENTER PUT YOUR GLASSES ON
WE WERE JUST BELOW VESEY STREET RIGHT BELOW
THE ATRIUM DONT KNOW IF THE ATRIUM IS ON THIS
LIKE ON WEST STREET ON THE WEST SIDE OF WEST
STREET
OVER HERE OKAY WAS RIGHT BY THE AMERICAN
EXPRESS BUILDING SO THINK WE WERE JUST BELOW VESEY HERE IS THE WINTER GARDEN HERE IS WHERE WE WERE
WOULD SAY RIGHT AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE
THATS WHERE YOU WERE SITTING AFTER THE
COLLAPSE WHEN WERE YOU THERE
NO THIS WAS WHEN WE WERE WATCHING THE
BUILDINGS BURN THIS IS WHERE THE UNDERGROUND GARAGE IS SOMEWHERE AROUND HERE THERES THE WINTER GARDEN WE WERE RIGHT NEXT IT TO AND WHEN WE PULLED UP OFF OF
STR TH CHI SAID LI ST STAND BY TH UNDERGROUND GARAGES SOMEWHERE AROUND HERE IM NOT REALLY SURE
11

REMEMBER WHAT RANK HE WAS DO NO
PICCERILL
WHEN TOWER WAS COLLAPSING THE FIRST ONE THAT WENT DOWN YOU RAN DOWN RAMP OR SOMETHING LIKE
THAT AND THEN YOU CAME UP THE GUY OPENED THE DOOR AND YOU CAME UP INTO THE STREET YOU SAID
WE CAME UP INTO COURTYARD
COURTYARD SO YOU WERE OVER ON THE WEST
SIDE SOME PLACE
WOULD ASSUME SO CHIEF IM NOT TELL
YOU THE GODS HONEST TRUTH IM NOT REALLY SURE YOURE NOT SURE
IM NOT REALLY SURE
ALL RIGHT WHEN YOU MET THAT CHIEF DO YOU
YOU KNOW WHO HE WAS
THING HE SAVED LOT
TO THAT PLACE BECAUSE IF HE DIDNT WE WOULDNT BE HERE TODAY
LIKE THAT NO BUT ILL SAY ONE OF GUYS LIVES BY MAKING US GO
BUILDING
YES REALLY
SO YOU RAN IN THE TUNNEL WHEN THE FIRST
CAME DOWN
WITH TH FIRST THIS
THATS THIS ONE THE SOUTH BUILDING YES
ANYTHING
12

PICCERILL
THEN EVENTUALLY YOU WORKED YOUR WAY UP THE SMOKE CLEARED AND EVERYTHING ELSE
THEN WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THE SECOND ONE
WHAT WERE YOU DOING WHEN THE SECOND BUILDING CAME DOWN
PUTTING GUYS IN THE AMBULANCE
RIGHT
GARY AND OUR LIEUTENANT HEALY
ON WEST STREET
IT WAS IN THE COURTYARD SOMEWHERE BEHIND WEST
OKAY
IVE GONE BACK AND TRIED TO EVEN PIECE IT
TOGETHER AND
YOURE NOT SURE WHERE YOU WERE
STILL CANT FIND THE EXACT SPOT
OKAY
IM GOING TO SAY JUST FOR THE HECK OF IT THAT
IT WAS PROBABLY SOMEWHERE AROUND HERE
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN HES INDICATING
NORTH OF VESEY STREET AND WEST OF WEST STREET IN THAT SQUAR BKCK
DO YOU REMEMBER THIS ONE COMING DOWN AND WHERE YOU WERE WHEN THE SECOND BUILDING WAS COMING
DONT KNOW IF IT WAS THIS SIDE TELL
STREET
THE TRUTH CHIEF REALLY DONT KNOW
YOU
13

DOWN
ABOUT LIKE THE SAME ANQLE
IT WAS ALMOST DIRECTLY CORNERS OF THE BUILDING
ABOUT THE WAY PICTURED IN LINE WITH ONE OF THE
ID SAY AROUND IN THAT AREA
BUT
CANT TELL YOU FOR SURE
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN HES INDICATING ON
THE MAP THE SAME LOCATION JUST WEST OF WEST STREET JUST NORTH OF VESEY STREET
HE HAD SOMEWHAT OF VIEW OF TOWER COMING DOWN THE SECOND BUILDING WHEN IT CAME DOWN
HEALY
ANYTHING ELSE
NOT REALLY WHICH
WENT TO THE HOSPITAL DID
PICCERILL
YEAH LIKE SAID WE WERE IN THAT WE WERE IN THAT LOT SOMEWHERE
LOT
WOULD ASSUME MAYBE SOMEWHERE AROUND HERE
BUT REALLY DONT KNOW BUT REMEMBER WHEN WE CAME UP
OUT OF THE UNDERGROUND PARKING GARAGE AND WE GOT OUT
IT LED US RIGHT INTO THAT COURTYARD WHERE GARY
AND LIEUTENANT
ALL REMEMBER WAS LOOKING UP AND BASICALLY
WENT TO
ISRAEL ON SECOND AVENUE AND 17TH STREET OR SOMETHING
WHAT IS THE ONE ON BETH
14
WAS

YOU
PICCERILL
YES DO YOU REMEMBER ANYBODY THERE
CAN YOU IDENTIFY ANYBODY THAT WAS THERE WITH
JUST ME AND EDDIE RODRIGUEZ HE WORKS IN 204 THAT WAS THE ONLY TWO FIREMEN AT THE TIME SEEN THEM BRINGING IN BECAUSE ORIGINALLY THEY WERE TRYING
TO GET US TO BROOKLYN TO HOSPITAL BUT THEY COULDNT GET OVER THE BRIDGE SO THEY TOOK US OVER THERE
IT WAS PROBABLY THE EASIEST ONE TO GET TO AT THE TIME BECAUSE HAVE TO TELL YOU TRAFFIC WAS INSANE EVERYTHINQ WAS BLOCKED OFF AND NO ONE WAS GOING ANYWHERE IN HURRY
YES
THATS REALLY IT
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW
ITS NOW 1525 HOURS AND THANK THE FIREMAN FOR THE INTERVIEW
THATS THE END IM GOING TO SHUT IT OFF NOW
15

FILE NO 9110331
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT DIANE DEMARCO
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 14 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

DEMARCO
MR MURAD TODAY IS DECEMBER 14TH
TIME IS THE TIME IS 0800 HOURS MURRAY MURAD FROM THE FIRE
OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK AND IM AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING
2001 THE MY NAME IS DEPARTMENT
CONDUCTING INDIVIDUAL
STATE
EMT DEMARCO MY NAME IS DIANE DEMARCO
YOUR NAME
IM AN EMT FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT MR MURAD THIS INTERVIEW IS
BEING CONDUCTED AT BATTALION 15 LOCATED AT 4109
WHITE PLAINS ROAD THIS IS REGARDING THE
EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
DIANE CAN YOU TELL US WHAT HAPPENED ON
THAT DAY
THAT MORNING
OUTPOST TO PICK
AT THE OUTPOST
ITS 1040 PLANE INTO BUILDING SHORTLY THAT WAS ASSIGNED TO THE JOB
WAS ASSIGNED TO UNIT 15 BOY TOUR
ARRIVED THINK
AFTER
HAD RESPONDED UP TO THE FINAL
UP PARTNER WHEN HAD THERE WAS CALL GIVEN OF
RESPONDED DOWN THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY AND AS WAS TRAVELING DOWN THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY THE SECOND PLANE HAD HIT THE OTHER TOWER AT

DEMARCO
THAT POINT WAS TRAVELING TO MY DESTINATION WHICH AT THE TIME WAS VESEY AND WEST FOR
STAGING BELIEVE IT WAS
WHO WERE YOU WORKING WITH THAT DAY
WAS WORKING WITH ANOTHER EMT THOMAS
LOPEZ
WE HAD GOTTEN TO THE LOCATION OF VESEY AND WEST THERE WAS REALLY NO ONE IN CHARGE DOWN THERE WE WERE BASICALLY IN CHARGE OF OURSELVES WHICH WORKED OUT PRETTY WELL WE WERE GETTING
OUT OF THE VEHICLE SUPERVISOR HAD BEEN
PASSING US BY DONT KNOW WHO HE IS WHERE HE WAS FROM BUT HE HAD DIRECTED US TO GO INTO THE BUILDING THE SECOND FLOOR OF THE BUILDING WITH OUR EQUIPMENT
DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED COUPLE OF MINUTES AFTER THAT SAW MY PARTNER GET HIS
BAGS AND START HEADING TOWARDS THE BUILDING TOLD HIM HAD TURNED AROUND MYSELF HAD
STARTED TO GO GET MY TECH BAG AND THAT IS NOT GOOD IDEA SO CALLED HE CAME BACK TO THE VEHICLE
REALIZED TOMMY BACK
AND JUST AS HE CAME BACK TO THE VEHICLE WITH ME COUPLE
OTHER UNITS HAD COME DOWN AND SAID LETS TURN

DEMARCO
THE VEHICLES AROUND HECAUSE WE WERE FACING INTO THE LOCATION SO MYSELF AND MEDIC UNIT
DONT KNOW HOW MANY OTHER UNITS TURNED THE VEHICLES AROUND
DONT KNOW IT WOULD HAVE TO BE MINUTES SECONDS AFTER WE TURNED THE
VEHICLE AROUND THE FIRST BUILDING FELL THE FIRST COLLAPSE AT THAT POINT THERE WAS CAR
BLOCKING THE AREA AND WAS GOING TO ATTEMPT TO TURN THAT VEHICLE AROUND IT BELONGED TO CHIEF
THAT HAD JUST PASSED ME BY KNEW THAT HE WAS IN FRONT OF THE HOTEL
ATTEMPTED TO WALK TOWARDS THE HOTEL BUT JUST AS ATTEMPTED TO DO THAT THE DONT
KNOW WHAT YOUD CALL IT THAT MUSHROOM AVALANCHE THING WAS COMING AT US TURNED AROUND AND CALLED TO MY PARTNER WE GOT BACK IN THE VEHICLE AND STARTED TO PULL AWAY FROM THE SCENE
BUT JUST AT THAT POINT SOMEBODY WAS POUNDING ON THE GLASS ON THE BACK DOORS OF THE
AMBULANCE LOOKED THROUGH THE REARVIEW MIRROR AND SAW MAN IN HAZMAT SUIT BUT COULDNT STOP THE VEHICLE BECAUSE SOMETHING WOULD HAVE HAPPENED TO EITHER THE VEHICLE OR HIM
SHORTLY

DEMARCO
SO SORT OF MOTIONED TO HIM BUT
DONT KNOW IF HE SAW ME THAT KNEW HE WAS THERE
ON THE BACK BUMPER OF THE AMBULANCE SO DROVE OFF BUT DROVE OFF AT STEADY PACE SO THAT
WOULDNT KNOCK HIM HE WOULDNT FALL OFF PULLED FEW BLOCKS UP FROM THERE
DONT KNOW WHAT LOCATION THAT WAS AS ATTEMPTED TO GO AROUND TO THE BACK OF THE
VEHICLE SAW THE MAN THAT WAS ON THE BACK BUMPER HE WAS SERGEANT FROM HAZMAT PORT AUTHORITY AT THAT POINT HE THANKED ME HE SAID THAT SAVED HIS LIFE BECAUSE HE COULDNT RUN ANYMORE
FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT HE WAS COVERED IN DUST AS MY PARTNER WAS TREATING HIM NOTICED SEVERAL
FIRE DEPARTMENT PERSONNEL FIREMEN WALKING AIMLESSLY OR SITTING ON THE CORNER OF WHERE HAD
PULLED IN DONT KNOW THE LOCATION WAS SAFELY ENOUGH AWAY FROM THE FIRST COLLAPSE TO START TREATING PATIENTS
SO STARTED TO TAKE FIREMEN OFF THE STREET CORNERS WHEREVER WAS FINDING THEM THEY
WE THEN PROCEEDED TO TREAT HIM
MY PARTNER AND WE JUST DID THE NORMAL PROTOCOL

DEMARCO
WERE TOTALLY COVERED IN DUST CAKED CAKED ON
THEIR EYELIDS SO MY PARTNER AND AGAIN STARTED TO TREAT THINK WE TREATED ABOUT SIX PEOPLE
SIX AND EMT FROM PRIVATE HOSPITAL
AS WE WERE DOING THAT THE SECOND TOWER
COLLAPSED SO EVERYBODY SCATTERED THE PATIENTS
THAT WE WERE TREATING SCATTERED AND THEY STARTED RUNNING AS WE ALSO GOT IN THE VEHICLE AND
STARTED TO DRIVE OFF THINK THATS THE POINT WHERE GOT UP TO CHAMBERS STREET AFTER THE
SECOND COLLAPSE
BY THAT POINT THEN THERE WAS SOME
SUPERVISORS THEN ON THE SCENE AND THEY WERE STARTING TO ORGANIZE THINGS AND SENDING EVERYONE
UP TO CHELSEA PIERS WHERE WE THEN WAITED FOR FURTHER INSTRUCTIONS
AFTER THAT THINK IT WAS LIKE AROUND 600 IN THE EVENING WE WERE THEN RELEASED TO GO
BACK UP TO THE BRONX
WHEN YOU WERE THERE WHEN THE SOUTH
TOWER CAME DOWN DID YOU FEEL ANYTHING WAS THERE ANY INDICATION THAT THE TOWER WAS COMING
DOWN
NO THE FIRST TOWER

DEMARCO
RIGHT
NO NO
WHEN THE SECOND TOWER
JUST HAPPENED TO BE LOOKING UP OR OUT TOWARDS THAT DIRECTION OF THE BUILDINGS WHEN ALL
OF SUDDEN WE JUST NOTICED THAT IT JUST DROPPED STRAIGHT DOWN THEN IT GOT REALLY DARK REAL
DARK THINGS WERE FLYING THROUGH THE AIR
LOOKED UP AT THE BUILDING AND BEFORE
REALIZED WHAT WAS SEEING THOUGHT IT WAS PAPER FLOATING THROUGH THE AIR IT WAS PEOPLE
JUMPING FROM HIGH UP WAY UP HIGH BUT THEN AT THAT POINT WE HAD LEFT THAT FIRST LOCATION OF
VESEY AND WEST
SO NOW WHEN THE NORTH TOWER NOW
COLLAPSED DID YOU FEEL ANYTHING NO
WERE YOU JUST
SAW THE ANTENNA START TO COME DOWN
BECAUSE AGAIN THE VEHICLE WAS FACING NORTH SO WE WERE AT THE BACK OF THE AMBULANCE TREATING
SOUTH THE TOWERS WERE IN OUR EYE VIEW SO SAW THE ANTENNA GO DOWN DONT
KNOW IF THAT WAS THE FIRST BUILDING OR THE SECOND
PATIENTS FACING

BUILDING
DEMARCO
THINK THAT WAS ON THE SOUTH TOWER
THAT WAS PROBABLY THE FIRST BUILDING
THE FIRST BUILDING YES SAW THE
ANTENNA START TO SLIDE BUT WE THOUGHT AT THAT POINT THAT IT WAS GOING TO TOPPLE OVER NOT GO
STRAIGHT
DOWN
THE SECOND TOWER JUST RECALL SEEING
IT FALL CLOUD OF DUST
THE RADIO COMMUNICATIONS WERE YOU GUYS
DIRECTED TO USE CERTAIN FREQUENCY
WE WERE DIRECTED TO MONITOR CITYWIDE
FREQUENCY THERE WASNT SUPPOSED TO BE ANY TRANSMISSIONS FOLLOWED THE THOSE DIRECTIONS
THINK ITS ONLY BECAUSE OF THE EXPERIENCE THAT
HAD HAVE 25 YEARS IN THE STREET 21 OF THEM WITH EMS
BECAUSE OF MY GOING TO MOCK DISASTER DRILLS AT THE AIRPORT FOR MY OWN REASONS BECAUSE WHEN WAS WORKING ON THAT SIDE OF THE BRONX THE UNIT WAS WORKING WAS ONE OF THE FIRST UNITS
THAT WOULD HAVE GONE TO AN AIRPORT INCIDENT SO
ATTENDED THOSE FOR MY OWN REASONS

DEMARCO
AND AS FAR AS MONITORING THE RADIO AND NOT TALKING OVER THE FREQUENCY HAD ENOUGH
EXPERIENCE TO KNOW WHAT TO DO AND HOW TO HANDLE IT SO BEGAN GIVING INSTRUCTIONS TO MY
PARTNER WE DID PAPERWORK NOT LOT OF PEOPLE DID THAT WE DID ACRS WE DID LOG SHEETS WE
KEPT TRACK OF EVERYBODY THAT WE TREATED
UNFORTUNATELY EVERY TIME THE BUILDING COLLAPSED OR WE GOT WORD THAT WE HAD TO MOVE FROM THE SCENE THOSE PATIENTS SCATTERED BUT FOUND THAT RAN INTO TWO OF THOSE PATIENTS AT LEAST TWICE THAT MORNING IN DIFFERENT LOCATIONS ONE OF

DEMARCO 10
WHICH HAD TO HE EVENTUALLY WAS TRANSPORTED TO THE HOSPITAL ANOTHER ONE WAS FIREMAN THAT
TOOK OFF THE STREET CORNER AND TREATED WITH THAT DUST AND THEN MEDIC UNIT CAME AND TOOK HIM TO
THE HOSPITAL SOMEWHERE UP AROUND CHAMBERS STREET AT THAT POINT
THATS ABOUT IT REALLY JUST THANK GOD THAT HAD THE SENSE ENOUGH TO TAKE CARE OF
MYSELF AND MY PARTNER OR IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DISASTER WHO KNOWS WAS SO CLOSE
MR MURAD THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW WOULD LIKE TO THANK EMT DIANE DEMARCO THE TIME NOW IS 820 HOURS AND THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW THANK YOU VERY MUCH
File No. 9110332
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
            EMT DWIGHT SCOTT
   Interview Date:  December 14, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
D. SCOTT 2
          MR. MURAD:  Today's date is December
     14, 2001.  The time is 74545 hours.  I am
     Murray Murad of the Fire Department of the
     City of New York, and I am conducting an
     interview with --
          EMT SCOTT:  Dwight Scott.
          MR. MURAD:  And your rank and your
     command, please?
          EMT SCOTT:  EMT from Battalion 15.
          MR. MURAD:  This interview is being
     conducted at 4109 White Plains Road,
     Battalion 15.  This is regarding the events
     on September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   EMT Dwight Scott, can you please give
us your perspective on that day?
     A.   I was on a call, minor injury call.
Then I heard somebody -- the dispatcher said for
us to go on citywide, monitor, don't say
anything.  I went 82 to the hospital.  Then when
I got to the hospital, I saw a lot of people
around the television.  I went and looked and I
saw the plane had hit the World Trade Center.
          After finishing the call, we went back
to the battalion.  I asked my lieutenant are we
D. SCOTT 3
going to be assigned to the World Trade Center.
He said, "As a matter of fact, you've already
been assigned."  So I grabbed some extra
equipment, put it on my ambulance.  We continued
to go to the World Trade Center.
          On the way there we heard a lot of
people crying for help, some people saying,
"Mayday, mayday, mayday.  My ambulance is
crushed.  I can't find my partner."
          So I started to speed up a little bit
more.  We finally got there, and I saw -- the
last tower was still standing.  I went forward,
tried to advance as much as I can down to the
site.
     Q.   Do you know where you were or did you
see any officers or were you just actually
operating on your own?
     A.   When we got there at first we saw
officers.  There were different groups of
command.  We kind of advanced until we saw
somebody that we knew.  They told us what was
going on.  They told us to pretty much just stay
put so they could account for people as
they're -- we were setting up a command post.
D. SCOTT 4
That's when the building started to come down.
Then we had to retreat north.
          I was on the West Side Highway by Vesey
and West.  We started to help firefighters that
were injured.  We saw a couple of them running by
themselves from a huge cloud, the smoke and the
dust.  We started to help them, irrigate their
eyes, help walking wounded.  We started to bring
them to the triage station.
          Then after that we heard another unit;
they were crying for help.  We didn't know where
they were.  We tried to advance to where they
said they might have been, but there was so much
smoke and dust that we had to retreat.
          When the building started to collapse,
we pretty much just got up and just ran.
     Q.   Which building?  That was the north
tower at that time?
     A.   The last one.
     Q.   The north tower?
     A.   The north tower.  The north tower -- I
was at the bus.  As a matter of fact, I even made
a pact with my partner that if a chief tells us
to split up we would never split up.  When the
D. SCOTT 5
north tower collapsed, he started running one
way.  I called for him and said, "Come on,
Melvin, Melvin."  He couldn't here me.  He just
started running.
          The ambulance was idling, so I jumped
in the ambulance and just started driving and
drove until everything was quiet.  Then I turned
around.  Melvin, he had jumped in another
ambulance.
     Q.   Melvin is who?  Your partner?
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   What's Melvin's last name?
     A.   Rodriguez.
     Q.   Rodriguez?
     A.   Yes.
          After we met up again, we went back to
another command post.  Then they said there was a
secondary explosion or they weren't sure if it
was a bomb or a gas main.  But we all started
running again.  We went north.  After that we
regrouped and set up another triage station
farther from the site.
          We pretty much stayed around there
because we weren't sure what was going to happen.
D. SCOTT 6
We didn't want to lose any more people.  So we
stayed around.
     Q.   When you went down where you were at
that time, can you just specify?
     A.   After the secondary explosion?
     Q.   Right.
     A.   It was somewhere by -- what's that big
complex?
     Q.   The Winter Garden?  American Express
building?
     A.   It was further back, further north.
     Q.   To Church Street?
     A.   Chelsea Pier, Chelsea Pier.  We went to
Chelsea Pier.  We pretty much stayed there
because they were thinking about secondary
devices or something might happen.
     Q.   Was there any officers that were at
that time operating there once you guys were
regrouped over there?
     A.   Yes, there were officers there, and
they took our name and unit number.  They tried
to keep us accountable like to where they were
and where they wanted us and which direction they
wanted us to keep the ambulance just in case we
D. SCOTT 7
have to run again.
     Q.   Anything else you want to add?
     A.   I'll just say that was one of the worst
experiences I've ever seen in my life, and I hope
I don't see anything like that again.
     Q.   Were you guys operating on a radio
frequency?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   How were the radio communications?
     A.   We were on citywide.
     Q.   How were the communications?
     A.   Communications I think were pretty
good.  On citywide.  They did try to keep that
channel open just in case.  There wasn't a lot of
confusion like the other channels where
everybody's talking.
     Q.   When you were down at Chelsea Pier when
everyone regrouped -- when you guys regrouped,
were you then given an assignment or were you
told just to stay there or what was the actions
of everybody?
     A.   Pretty much to stay, to stand fast,
because we weren't sure what kind of danger we
might be in.  We weren't sure what kind of danger
D. SCOTT 8
we might be in, so they pretty much kept us at
bay so just in case anything happened they
wouldn't lose any more members.
     Q.   All right.  Anything else you feel you
want to add?  All right.
     A.   Unless you have other questions.
     Q.   No, you mostly answered them, where you
guys regrouped, what frequencies you were
operating on, did you see anybody.  Any
individual person that came to mind that you saw
that comes to your mind or was it just you and
your partner most of the time?
     A.   When you say people, like victims or --
     Q.   Well, if you knew some victims or EMS
people or fire people.
     A.   Yes, a couple of people that we work
with, a couple firefighters from our area.
     Q.   Do you know the names of the EMS people
or just you know them by sight?
     A.   Just by sight.
     Q.   So just by sight?
     A.   Just by sight.
     Q.   All right.  You know some of the
firemen that were responding down there?
A. Yes.
D. SCOTT 9
     Q.   Okay.  EMT Dwight Scott, I'd like to
thank you?
          MR. MURAD:  The time now is 755 hours,
     and this concludes the interview.  Thank
     you.
File No. 9110333
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         PARAMEDIC ROBERT RUIZ
   Interview Date:  December 14, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
R. RUIZ 2
          MR. CUNDARI:  Today's date is December
     14th, 2001.  The time is 11:35.  I'm George
     Cundari of the New York City Fire
     Department.  I'm conducting an interview
     with the following individual.
          Please state your name, rank, title and
     assigned command.
          PARAMEDIC RUIZ:  My name is Robert
     Ruiz.  I'm a paramedic with the Fire
     Department of New York, and I work at
     Battalion 26 in the Bronx.
     Q.   Paramedic Ruiz, can you please tell us
the events of September 11th from your
recollection, please?
     A.   That morning we had just taken a
patient to Bronx Lebanon Hospital, and we had
just cleared from the hospital when the
dispatcher sent us the assignment to respond down
to Manhattan.  It was kind of odd because we work
all the way up in the Bronx.  They don't ever
send Bronx units into Manhattan.
          So we were wondering what it was.  So
we switched to citywide frequency.  That's when
we found out something was going on in Manhattan.
R. RUIZ 3
We still didn't know what it was.  So we turned
on the news, and we listened to 1010.  That's
when we found out that a plane had struck one of
the twin towers.
          At that point me and my partner -- we
didn't think it was terrorism or anything like
that.  We just thought maybe it was some sort of
a problem with the controls or something like
that.
          Anyway, we started responding downtown.
On the way there, halfway there, we hear the news
that a second plane crashed into the World Trade
Center.  Right then and there we both knew that
it had to be terrorists because what are the odds
of two planes crashing into two separate
buildings.
          So we're driving there.  There's a lot
of traffic, a lot of police, a really long line
of fire trucks, unmarked cars and ambulances and
everything.
     Q.   How were you getting there?  What route
did you take?
     A.   We ended up taking the Grand Concourse
all the way up to the FDR Drive and then the FDR
R. RUIZ 4
Drive all the way down.  We ended up having to
get off around 34th Street, because they had
blocked off all the -- the traffic wasn't moving,
so one of the fire trucks blocked all the traffic
and everybody just went.
          From there everybody just split.
Everybody just took their own routes.  We took a
pretty good one, so we got there maybe ten
minutes after that.
     Q.   So you took West Street from there?
     A.   Right there from 34th Street?  Yes.  We
took -- what's the name of that street that's
right by South Street Seaport underneath the
drive?  I don't know what street that is.
Q. Allen?
     A.   The one that runs underneath the FDR
Drive, that street there, like the New York Post.
Q. Pike?
     A.   Right, right where the South Street
Seaport, you know, where the mall is at.  So we
ended up taking that street all the way down.  It
was pretty clear, I remember.  So we ended up
going through there.
          As soon as we got there, we went inside
R. RUIZ 5
the tunnel underneath Battery Park, and we came
out on the other side.  When we came out on the
other side, it was like -- we already saw the
building on fire from way uptown, maybe 125th
Street.  As we got closer and closer it was like,
wow, it was amazing.  The second plane had
already hit, so we never saw it when that
happened.  But we already saw the two buildings
in flame.  But as we got closer and closer, you
see it better and better.
          So when we came out of the tunnel on
the other side, we were right there.  It was
incredible.  We were just amazed that this had
happened.
          As we see, there's a line forming of
ambulances up on West Street and -- it is West
Street, but it wasn't Liberty.  There was another
street there.  What's the next street after
Liberty?
     Q.   Still south of the World Trade Center?
     A.   Yes.  It wasn't Liberty, because -- or
could it have been Liberty?  Was it just that
big?  Oh, yeah, so it was Liberty.  There had to
be like another bridge there.  I remember the
R. RUIZ 6
bridge.
     Q.   There's a walkway over here by Vesey.
     A.   I remember this.  That's where we were.
Okay.
          There's a couple of commanders, chiefs,
captains at Liberty and West Street.  We came out
of the tunnel, and we ended up on the West Side
Highway.  We went up to the back of the line.
Before we got to the back of the line, like
people describe it, there were body parts all
over the floor.
          I saw pieces of scalp and entire torsos
and legs, hands, just about everything.  I never
saw a face, but I saw just about every other part
you can think of.  It was like an obstacle course
to get to this line that they had formed at
Liberty and West Street.
          It can't be Liberty and West Street.
It has to be like right by the hotel.  Right over
here, right in that corner, that's where it was.
The line didn't start on Liberty and West Street;
it was a little bit further up, maybe by the
Marriott.  Maybe right around there, maybe a
little bit before that.
R. RUIZ 7
     Q.   So you're right by the towers at that
point?
     A.   No, we never made it to the towers.
I'm going to tell you what happened.
          It was like an obstacle course to get
to the end of the line, to the back of the line.
What they were doing is they were getting
patients, throwing them in the back of the bus,
and then the bus would just take off.
     Q.   These are all walking wounded coming to
you?
     A.   That's right.
          Then the captains and chiefs, they were
directing people everywhere.  It was total chaos.
So that's just what we did.
          As soon as we got to the back of the
line, these firemen come running from the
building right on Liberty and -- right on Liberty
and West Street, there's a building there.  I'm
not quite sure whether it was a church or not.
It didn't look like a church.  I remember it had
a lot of scaffolding on it.
          They come running from the building,
and he starts yelling at us.  He said, "Help,
R. RUIZ 8
help, help, we need your help.  One of our guys
got hit with some debris that fell off a
building."  My partner was driving that day and
he said, "Okay, no problem."
          We get off the line, and we park right
on Liberty Street now.  Right on Liberty Street,
there's a parking lot there.  He parks there,
gets out of the bus, runs to the back and gets a
trauma bag.  He goes, gets the trauma bag and
runs out and goes inside the building.
          Now, I get out.  I jumped inside the
back of the bus, and I'm getting the rest of the
equipment.  I'm getting the oxygen bag, I've got
the monitor, I've got a couple trauma dressings
and stuff, and I'm putting it on top of the
stretcher.  I jumped out with the stretcher and
everything.
          I go to the building where he went, but
there's a few entrances on that corner and I
don't know where exactly he went.  So I see some
firemen almost on the other side of the building
on the other corner.  I go and I approached them
and said, "Which way did my partner go?"  He
said, "We don't know what you're talking about."
R. RUIZ 9
          So now my partner's inside the
building, and he probably needs the equipment and
I don't know where he is.
     Q.   What's your partner's name?
     A.   Joe Jefferson.
          I can't tell you the times that all
this is happening because I really --
     Q.   Time is lost?
     A.   Right, time is lost.  All I know is
that the building hadn't fallen yet.
          So I approached these guys.  They told
me they don't know who I'm talking about and
whatever.  So what I do is I end up standing
right in the middle, because if he comes out of
any exit I can just run to him, throw the guy on
the stretcher and just leave from there.  So that
was the plan.
          As I'm waiting there -- I must have
waited a good five minutes.  Then the firemen I
had just spoken to, they go and they run into the
World Trade Center number two.  So they run
across the street into the building.
          Right after them, you see three FBI
agents, two men and a woman, run right after
R. RUIZ 10
them, and they also go inside the World Trade
Center.  I'm just standing right there in the
center, and I'm looking up.  I'm like, oh, man,
you know, just dumbfounded.  This is such an
amazing sight.
          I don't know what else I was thinking.
It was just incredible.  It was just one of those
things you look at and you just have your mouth
wide open saying, "I can't believe I'm here
witnessing something like this."  I said, man,
you know, this is real history, and wondering
where my partner is and what's the matter with
this guy.
          All of a sudden I see a plain clothes
cop come and stand right on the corner.  So this
is now Washington and Liberty.  He's right on
that corner, and he's looking up.  He looks at
me, and we just both nod in disbelief.  We just
keep staring like -- this happened in a matter of
like five minutes, the firemen running in, the
FBI right behind and then the plain clothes cop
on the corner.
          The next thing you know, you hear a
loud thundering noise.  It sounded like a jet, a
R. RUIZ 11
big rumble.  I start looking around and I'm like,
what is that?  The next thing I know, I see the
cop just take off.  I'm like, where's he going?
          Then I see the things on the floor,
like Liberty -- you know, just like the movies,
bouncing up and jumping and shaking.  I mean, not
like an earthquake, like a 6 point something or
something like that.  But you see stuff on the
floor shaking from side to side.  I'm like, oh,
my God.  I look up and I was saying, oh, no, the
building's going to fall down.
          Let me tell you, you talk about being
scared, never in my life -- I don't think ever
again I'll ever be so scared.  So I turn around.
Right where I'm standing I turn around.  I'm in
the center of the building.  I turn around, and I
try to go inside the building, but that door
happens to be locked.  So I run towards the
corner where the cop was, and I keep trying all
the doors.
          All the doors and all the windows are
locked, and I can't break any of the windows to
get in because they have metal gates on them.  So
even if I was to break a window to get in, I
R. RUIZ 12
can't get in.  So I keep running, running, keep
trying the doors.
          I make it to the corner.  I make it to
the corner, and I turn right.  So I was going to
keep running all the way straight up Washington.
So I ran maybe a few feet when I tripped and I
fell on something, some debris.  I don't know
what it was.  But I ended up falling.
By now the sound is just getting louder and louder and louder. I said, oh, man, this building is going to fall on me right now. What doIdo? Igotup,andIjust--thisislikea split second. I said I can't keep running straight up, because you have this building right here on Washington. What is it? Bankers Trust Plaza, 130 Liberty Street? It takes up the entire block. So I can't run like in a diagonal.
          What I wanted to do is I didn't want to
run straight up; I wanted to go diagonally to get
out of the -- because I figured this building was
falling, it was tumbling over.  I didn't think it
was falling down on top of itself.
     Q.   So you had a feeling the building was
coming down right away?
R. RUIZ 13
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   Is that what you first thought?
     A.   Yeah.  The sound, it's just loud.  At
first it's (sound) and then you feel everything
around you -- not around you but the floor.  You
feel the floor trembling and shaking.  You look
at the floor, the dirt, the sand and everything
on the floor shifting from side to side.  I'm
like, oh, man.
          Then the cop takes off.  He runs.  Then
I hit the corner, I turn the corner, a few feet I
fall.  By this time the sound is so, so, so loud,
I think oh, my God.  I never looked back, because
I figured if I looked back that was going to be
it, I'd freeze or be hit with something.  I said,
look, I don't want to waste any time.  Whatever
it is I'm going to do, I've got to do it quickly.
          So I saw the building.  I saw that I
couldn't run.  I saw that if I kept running
straight -- the map here, it doesn't look big at
all.  But this was like a really long block for
me to keep running and running and running and go
around the corner on the other side.
          So what I ended up doing was there was
R. RUIZ 14
a door right on that corner, and the door was
locked.  It also had a gate, a wrought iron fence
gate.  I kept trying to open, open, open, open,
and I couldn't open.  I said, oh, my God, this is
going to be it.
          The way they made the door is it's like
a cutout in the building.  It's like about a foot
wide of wall before you hit the door.  So it was
like a little corner.  What I ended up doing was
I ended up hiding inside that little corner
there.  I ended up going inside that little door
well and hiding up against the wall facing the
World Trade Center building and hiding right in
that corner.
          As soon as I did that, the next thing I
know, all the dust; the dust, the dirt.  I said,
oh, my God, this is it.  That's all I kept
thinking:  Oh, my God, oh, my God, I'm going to
die here.  This building's going to fall on top
of me.  It's going to fall on top of this
building and squash it and this is it.  All you
hear is all this rumbling.  The rumbling, the
rumbling, the rumbling, that's all you heard.
The rumbling and the smoke.
R. RUIZ 15
          In a matter of seconds it was from
daytime to complete, complete darkness, something
straight out of a movie.
     Q.   So that doorway protected you?
     A.   Yeah.  It saved my life.
          But while I was in there, I was getting
hit with stuff.  You heard it, and you heard
glass breaking and stuff -- there was so much
noise, you couldn't distinguish one thing
happening.  But when it happened close to me, I
could hear it, like glass breaking.
          But the biggest problem there was I
couldn't breathe.  The smoke was really, really
hot, and I couldn't catch my breath.  So I ended
up taking off my shirt and wrapping it around my
face, trying to get some air, but I couldn't.
          What I remember is, oh, man, I'm going
to die here and -- who will protect my family.  I
was wondering how does it feel to be dead.
That's what I remember thinking while I was stuck
in that corner.  I was just like I'm ready for
it.  I wasn't so calm like I am right now, but I
remember thinking this while I was there.
          The only words I remember saying is,
R. RUIZ 16
oh, my God oh, my God, over and over and over,
and trying to pull the fence off so I could get
inside, but there was no way.  There was no way
for me open the door.  It was locked.  I was just
trapped there.  So I was just waiting for the big
impact that was just going to take me out.
          Miraculously the building stopped
falling.  The noise completely stopped.  But the
smoke kept coming.  I was having a real, real bad
time breathing.  The shirt wrapped around my face
wasn't helping at all, because it was saturated
in that dust as well.
I'm saying, oh, my God, what do I do? DoIstayhere? DoItrytorunout? ButthenI thought if I run out of that little corner I'm going to get hit with the rest of the stuff that's flying. I was trapped there.
          Like things weren't bad enough already,
the car that's parked right on that corner
catches on fire.  I don't mean a little fire, the
entire thing.  Don't ask me how.  The entire car
caught on fire.  You would think maybe just a
motor part or just the engine part.  But this
entire car just goes up in fire.
R. RUIZ 17
          I'm like, oh, my God, what's happening?
I didn't get squashed and I'm going to suffocate
here and now I'm going to burn.  The smoke was
real hot.  The smoke was real, real hot.  I
thought about, oh, man, if I keep breathing the
smoke in, my larynx is going to swell and I'm
going to suffocate like that, and all attached to
crazy things I'm thinking.  Forget about it.
          Now it was the car.  Then I can't stand
it anymore because it's getting real, real, real
hot.  I'm like, oh, man, I've got to get out of
here.  This thing is cooking me.  Now thanks to
the car fire -- because it was so big, I could
see now.  Before then I couldn't see anything.
It was literally like people say you stick your
hand right in front of your face and you couldn't
see it.  Now with this car fire, I could see a
few feet in front of me.
          I got out of the door well there, and I
walked a little bit.  I notice that there were
windows there as well, but the windows had gates
on them.  All the stuff that fell knocked the
gates off the building.  So the windows weren't
there anymore, the gates weren't there.
R. RUIZ 18
          All I had to do was break a little bit
of glass that was left there, and I ended up
jumping inside the building, because you couldn't
walk in the street.  I was right along like the
edge.  It's really hard to describe.  It was like
a mountain of stuff.
          I was walking right alongside the
building, and I ended up going inside there.
There was no gate.  I tried to remember where
were the gates, and I didn't see the gates at
all.  That whole corner was full of windows with
gates.
          It turns out that it was a restaurant.
The only reason I know is I ended up going inside
of it.  I must have been there like a good 20
minutes, because I couldn't find my way around.
I kept falling over tables and chairs.  That's
how I found out it was a restaurant.  At one time
I tried to yell for help.  I was like, "Help!"  I
said, oh, man, what am I doing?  I am the help
here.  Who's going to help me?
     Q.   Nobody answered while you were in
there?
     A.   No, no, there was nobody there.  The
R. RUIZ 19
people, I guess when the first plane hit, locked
up and just took off.
          So I'm in there a good 15 minutes, good
20 minutes, and I'm trying to find my way around.
It's like you've got no sense of coordination
because you don't know in which direction you're
going.  You're just bouncing into stuff and
trying to look for a wall.  I remember feeling a
counter.  Then I would fall on a table or trip on
a table, on a chair, get back up.
     Q.   Was your radio working at this point?
     A.   I'm going to get to that right now.
          So then when I yell for help, I'm like,
oh, man, there's nobody here.  So I go and I
reach for my radio, but there's no more radio.  I
don't know where the radio is, where it went.
Don't ask me where I lost it.
          I usually keep my radio real secure.
That's something I've always had that -- ever
since I started working there, I always kept the
radio secure.  I don't know, I lost it, maybe
when I fell or maybe climbing in through the
window or I had already fallen a few times.
          The reason I was yelling for help was
R. RUIZ 20
because I still hear stuff falling.  You could
still hear stuff falling.  I said, man, I don't
know if the whole building fell.  I didn't know
what the story was.
          I thought at that point that only half
the building had fallen off, because I was still
there.  I said, oh, my God, only half the
building fell.  The rest of the building is going
to fall.  I thought it maybe broke in half and
just fell down.  I didn't think it just crumbled
onto itself.
          Anyway, I start feeling around, and I
see a light.  I was saying, oh, yeah, that's the
way out.  I ended up walking towards the light.
It's kind of silly.  It ended up being a
refrigerator full of Snapple.  It was kind of
stupid.  Oh, man, I got so mad when I saw that.
     Q.   Did you need a drink?
     A.   No, I didn't want a drink.  I tell
everybody that part about the Snapple.  I said,
you know, I thought it was light.  I thought it
was the way out, and it turns out to be a giant
refrigerator full of Snapple.  I got so mad at
that point.
R. RUIZ 21
          Anyway, I turn around and I end up
looking inside there.  I eventually find a little
corridor, and I followed the corridor all the
way, all the way, all the way.  I ended up coming
out in the same building, but I ended up coming
out on some windows further south on Washington.
          So now I'm in between the block.  I'm
halfway in the building.  So I ended up coming
out of some broken windows that were there.  Now
I'm on Washington again.  I look back, and I look
at everything that was -- and I could still see
where it was, because of the fires.  It was just
like a movie.  There were fires scattered all
over.
          I remember there was a row of police
cars, and they were all smashed.  I was like,
remember that plain clothes cop that was running?
There could have been no way that he made it,
because the guy was right in front of me.  I'm
talking about he was right there.  I'm right
behind him.  I fall, I get back up, I hide inside
that little corner, and then everything just
starts falling.
          So I was like, oh, man, that poor guy.
R. RUIZ 22
I was even thinking of maybe even trying to look
for him.  It was like you couldn't see anything
there.
So I got out of the window, and I walked down Washington -- I didn't walk. What am I saying I walked? I ran. As soon as I got out, Iran. Iranandranandranandranandran. I ended up at the entrance to the tunnel. Where is the entrance of the tunnel here?
     Q.   It's off the page here.
A. LetmetellyouhowIran. ButIran and ran, and finally I could see the light. When I got to where the tunnel was, I'm looking everywhere. It was just like that movie the day after with the atomic bomb. They drop it and nobody's left and I'm the only one. That's exactly how it was.
I'm looking and like, "Hello?" I'm looking. "Anybody?" No cars moving, no birds, not one other person, nothing at all. Everything's abandoned, everything's left, and I'm just stuck there. I'm like, oh, my God, what doIdo? Isaid,whatdoIdonow?
          Then I remembered Jefferson.  I was
R. RUIZ 23
like, oh, my God, Jefferson.  What happened to
Jefferson?  What I ended up doing is when I hit
that tunnel, I ended up going back on West
Street.  I was still trying to catch my breath,
so I was taking it easy.  But I started walking
back to that building where I was.
          I'm coughing, I'm coughing, I'm walking
and everything.  As I started getting closer and
closer, that's when I start seeing people.  I
start seeing people scattered everywhere:  a
fireman here, a guy in a business suit there;
just very, very little people.
          When I got to the building that I was
in but on the other side -- we're now on West
Street -- I go in.  As soon as I go in, who's
behind the door?  Jefferson.  He's in there.  I'm
like, oh, man.  But I didn't recognize him
because the guy was completely black.  What he
was doing, he was helping out one of our other
guys who got hit with stuff and had something
stuck in his chest and he had broken his arm.
          So there was him and maybe three or
four other guys attending to him.  So he was
hurt, and somebody else was hurt that I remember.
R. RUIZ 24
I didn't really pay too much attention because I
was still trying to catch my breath.
          All this happens real quickly.  I was
stuck in the building for a while.  But as soon
as I got out, I ran, went to the tunnel entrance
and ended up going back to the other side of the
building.  I find them.  They're taking care of
him.
          So they ended up taking this guy,
throwing him in an ambulance that didn't get
smashed.  Our bus was completely totaled, because
we were parked right here on Liberty.  It's
demolished.  So they take him out and put him
inside an ambulance, and they take off.  So
everybody ends up leaving.
          Now, Jefferson comes back to see how I
am.  When he comes back in there, it's completely
empty.  Now all of a sudden we see this big group
of people come out; I'd say about maybe 15
people, about 17 people.  I'm like, oh, man, we
thought we were in there all by ourselves.
          Somebody had brought a bucket, and it
had water in it.  I just stayed by the bucket,
trying to drink some water.  I tried to clear my
R. RUIZ 25
passages out, because I couldn't breathe.  I was
coughing, coughing up that black stuff.
          Anyway, so these people come out of a
closet or there was a doorway or something.
We're like, oh, my God, what are you people doing
here?  We started talking to them.  They told us
to leave, but then the building started coming
down and we got scared and they hid.
          There was a lady with a baby, a guy
with some cats, some other guys that said they
were students from I don't know where, and there
was this other girl, an EMT, from Metro Care.
          What we ended up doing is me and
Jefferson, we end up leaving the building.  I'm
feeling a little better now than I did originally
from the smoke and stuff.  So I take the T-shirt
off.  No, that's a lie.  Someone takes a T-shirt
off and rips it, and now we make masks out of
that.  We put these white pieces of -- we put it
on our face to try to protect ourselves from the
smoke.
          We go and we end up walking back on the
West Side Highway.  We leave those people there
with the EMT from Metro Care.  We end up walking
R. RUIZ 26
a little bit.  What we were going to try to do
was to try to find -- oh, no, that's a lie.  Oh,
my God, I can't believe I forgot it.
          Even before we found that, we found the
people.  As soon as we found the people, we hear
it again, the rumbling.  Right, I forgot all
about that.  We hear the rumbling.  I was like,
oh, my God, Joe, the rest of the building is
falling down.
          We all run, and we all try to get as
much as we can inside this building where we are
now.  We hide in a closet or something.  The
walls are all full of glass.  So we're thinking
that this glass is going to break.  All you see
is the thing moving.  Later on we found out that
was the second building that was falling down.
We thought and I thought that the first one is
still -- the rest of it is falling down.
          So anyway, when this one finished
falling, we waited a little while.  Then that's
when we came out.  That's when we came out.  We
must have walked for maybe a block or two.  We
found a school bus there, like one of those mini
school buses.
R. RUIZ 27
          So we go in, and we were looking at all
the cars to see if we could find some
transportation or something.  We were picking up
equipment as we went along.  We found a radio, we
found gloves, we found a life pack, a bag.  We
were picking up equipment as we went along.
          So we end up finding a school bus.  We
go inside the school bus, and we find a lady
inside there hiding.  Why this lady didn't turn
the school bus around and leave that area, I
don't know.  I guess everybody handles it
differently.  So we told the lady that we were
going to borrow her school bus.
          So what we end up doing is we end up
taking the school bus.  Joe jumps in the driver's
seat, and we end up going as close as we can to
this building.  Now, we go in there, and we end
up taking all those people out, throwing them in
the school bus and then just taking off.
          So we end up taking off, and we end up
driving back down the West Side Highway to the
tunnel and all the way around to the FDR Drive.
Now, we end up taking the drive all the way up to
Bellevue Hospital.
R. RUIZ 28
          Once we got to Bellevue Hospital, we
dropped the people off.  Then me and Joe talked
it over, what are we going to do now?  Are we
going to go home?  I was like, I don't know.  I
don't know.  What do you want to do?  We talked
about it for a few minutes.  I said, look, let's
go back.  We just wanted to go back to help, see
what we could do.
          We ended up getting back in the school
bus, and the lady doesn't want to go back down
there, and we don't blame her.  So what we end up
doing, we left her and the school bus by the
Brooklyn Bridge, and from the Brooklyn Bridge we
had the life pack and we had the monitor we had
found.  We had the life pack and the trauma bag
that we had found.  We ended up walking all the
way back down to the twin towers site.
          When we got back to the twin towers
site, it was still a lot of smoke but not like
when everything had initially fallen down.  So
what we end up doing is me and the firemen that
were there, whoever was left, we end up just
digging.  We just started digging.
          A chief came by -- I forget who it
R. RUIZ 29
was -- and he tried to make a team, tried to make
teams of groups of people, but those things just
fell apart.  As soon as he left, everybody
decided to do what they wanted to do.
          Me and Jefferson decided to stay
together and, when the smoke cleared, just
started digging.  Then there's like no way to
dig.  All we can do is walk around and try to
listen to see if you heard something.
          It looked like somebody had taken like
a broomstick and taken all the debris and
everything and pushed it all the way up onto the
buildings that were across the street from the
World Trade Center.
          This street was more or less clean,
like the highway, right around here was like a
giant mountain.  I don't know what building it
was, this building right here.  Everything had
piled up over here, up on top of the buildings
over here.
          So we ended up staying there.  We found
a couple of helmets from people, firemen.  One
EMS helmet, we ended up taking that one back to
the station.  That's what we did all day.
R. RUIZ 30
          Then around 6, 7:00, my leg was
hurting, my shoulder was hurting, this whole
side.  I couldn't hardly walk.  I was like I
can't really move my arm anymore.  Joe said, "Do
you want to go to the emergency room?"  I said,
"I don't know."
          I ended up pulling up my pant leg, and
my calf must have been the size of a
grapefruit -- no, bigger.  It was real swollen.
I decided to go to the emergency room.  This is
like about 6:00, 6 p.m. or 6:30.
          So we ended up walking there too,
because there was no transportation at all.  We
went to New York Downtown Hospital.  We end up
going to that hospital.  They rush me in.  They
rush my partner in.  They asked us, "What
happened to you?  Where do you feel pain?"  I
said, "I feel pain in my leg, my knee.  I feel
pain in my shoulder, right here in my ribs."
          They take my clothes off, start
examining me, and say, "Oh, yeah, your leg is
pretty bad."  They started looking at my
shoulder, and they said, "It looks like you might
have broken a bone here or something."
R. RUIZ 31
          When all this had happened earlier, I
didn't feel anything.  I don't know why it was.
They took x-rays and found out that my collar
bone was broken.  They said I broke the AC joint
as well.  They said no broken bones in my legs or
my ribs or anything, just the shoulder got messed
up.
          The only thing I can think of is that
little piece of wall that didn't hide me
completely, because it wasn't wide enough, so I
imagine maybe something -- I remember stuff
flying everywhere and falling next to me, but I
don't remember feeling pain or getting hit with
anything.  Maybe it's because I couldn't breathe
or what it was.
          While we were taking the people out of
the building and while we were looking for stuff,
trying to find anybody that we can find in the
rubble or anything, looking inside cars and all
types of -- nothing.  I was walking with a little
limp, but I thought it was just nothing until
later on during the day.
          From there, once I got discharged from
the hospital -- they put my arm in a sling and
R. RUIZ 32
told me to put I believe heat on and then after
that put cold and then go see an orthopedic
doctor the next day, they gave me somebody to go
see.
          Now it was how do I get home?
     Q.   Did you ever end up calling home all
that time?
A. Itriedtocall--Iendedup--oh,
this is so funny.  I had a cell phone in my
pocket.  After we came back from Bellevue, I said
let me try to call home.  The cell phones weren't
working.  Everything was completely -- I'm
telling you, it was completely shut down.
          After maybe an hour or two, I got a
signal, so I ended up calling.  It just so
happens that I hadn't charged my phone.  So I was
on low cells.  So I called my girlfriend.  She
picked up the phone and she said, "How are you?"
          It's so funny, because on my way down
to the World Trade Center I called her and I was
like, "Look, I'm going down to the World Trade
Center."  She said, "No, don't go."  I was like,
"Look, they told me to go.  They assigned me
there."  She's like, "Be careful, be careful."
R. RUIZ 33
Then from there she never heard from me again.
          Now I said, "Oh, you don't know what's
happened to me.  Oh, my God, I almost died."  I'm
trying to tell her the story.  I said, "Look,
it's going to cut off."  It cuts off, and then
that was it.
          That's when everything else started.
We started looking for people and stuff like
that.  I took about an hour or two taking -- I
had a lot of glass in my hands.  My hands are
fine now, but they were destroyed.  I don't know
how I got so much glass in my hand.  I figured
maybe I was trying to break the glass with my
hands or something, but I don't remember.
          I don't know, but my hands, if you saw
them, they looked like -- they were completely
messed up.  So there I was, trying to irrigate
and going through every cut, picking the glass
out of my hands.  That took about an hour.
          Then we would go and look inside cars,
look inside the fire engines, the flipped-over
SUVs, everything.  There was really nothing we
could do, just the little bit we did.  We took
those people out of that building, so I guess we
R. RUIZ 34
did a little bit of our part.
          As far as finding anybody after that,
nothing.  Then when I got discharged from the
emergency room, we had no way to get home.  We
were stranded, so we started walking.  Jefferson
ran into somebody that works there at New York
Downtown Hospital.  They said they would try to
get us as far as Bellevue and then from there
maybe we could get a ride from one of our own
units there.
          As it turns out, they didn't call them
right away.  I don't think they were logged on or
whatever the case was.  They ended up taking us
all the way to the station.  You don't know how
happy I was when I heard that he was going to do
that favor for us, because by that time I had
really had just about enough by the end of the
day.
          So we get to the station, and there's
just a giant crowd of people.  Everybody that
works at the station was like, "Oh, my God, we
thought you guys were dead.  We thought you guys
were just --"  I guess they might have done roll
call on the radio, something like that, and they
R. RUIZ 35
hadn't heard from us.
          So when they saw us, they were happy,
clapping.  I told the story once, and then that
was it.  I was like I really don't want to talk
about it anymore.  I just want to go home.
          By that time Jefferson had lent me his
phone and I had called my family, and they were
on their way there.  So I was in five or ten
minutes and they got there.  My girlfriend
Tamara, my brother, my sister, they all came.
They hugged me and everything.
          It was definitely something I don't
ever want to live through again.  That's how the
day ended.  That was my World Trade Center
experience.
     Q.   Thank you for taking the time to
conduct this interview.
          MR. CUNDARI:  It is 12:12, and this
     concludes this interview.
File No. 9110334
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
            EMT KEVIN McLEON
   Interview Date:  December 15, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
K. McLEON 2
          MR. ECCLESTON:  Today is December 15,
     2001.  The time is 25 minutes past the hour
     of 12.  My name is Christopher Eccleston of
     the New York City Fire Department, World
     Trade Center Task Force.  I'm conducting an
     interview with the following individual.
          Please state your name, rank and shield
     number.
          EMT McLEON:  EMT Kevin McLeon, 5758.
     Q.   Were you assigned to the World Trade
Center disaster on September 11th?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Can you tell me in your own words about
the events of that day?
     A.   That morning I was late for work.  I
got stuck in traffic and was late for work.  The
alarm had gone on as soon as I got here.  We
pulled up the block, and we were a block from the
station when we realized there was something
going on.  There was a large crowd gathering in
the street.
          We parked our ambulance and we got out
of the ambulance, and we looked up and we
realized the World Trade Center was on fire.
K. McLEON 3
That's when the calls started coming in.
          My partner managed to get us on the
call, with all the radio traffic, and we
responded down to the World Trade Center.  In
doing so started to hear all the mass confusion
about what was going on.  Lieutenant Davila was
the first lieutenant down on the scene, screaming
for EMS units, crying that this was a hard hat
operation.  We knew something was really going
on.
          As we got closer to the World Trade
Center, we realized this is really something of a
large magnitude we have never seen before.  We
pull up 84, and we were actually on the opposite
side of where the staging was, which probably
saved our lives.
          Davila was on one side of the station,
one side of the building, and we were on the
other side.  We got out and started to pull our
equipment out.
     Q.   Can you just indicate on the map
provided approximately where you parked your
vehicle?
     A.   Church and maybe Cortlandt, Dey,
K. McLEON 4
somewhere.
     Q.   Okay.  So Church, somewhere in between
Cortlandt and Dey?
     A.   Somewhere in between there.
     Q.   Okay.  And you were in vehicle --
     A.   69.
     Q.   -- 69.  Thank you.
     A.   We pulled our equipment out and started
to stage in front of the building.  We started to
distribute equipment for triage.  We had one or
two patients who had a piece of the building that
fell on his shoulder.  We started to bring him to
ambulance when all of a sudden we heard a large
explosion.  That explosion turned out to be
subsequently the second plane hitting.
          We threw him and two other patients in
the back of the ambulance and started to do
triage in the back of the ambulance.  It was a
safe haven.  We ended up driving three more
patients.  The last patient was a burn patient.
Since she really couldn't wait around, we decided
to take the five that we had, hit our 82 and go
to the hospital.
     Q.   What hospital did you transport these
K. McLEON 5
patients to?
     A.   We went to Cornell.
     Q.   Cornell?
     A.   The burn patient we had had second and
third degree burns.  It has a really good trauma
center.  So for the first time we went to
Cornell.  When we got to Cornell, that's when we
heard the towers had collapsed.
          We quickly finished what we had at
Cornell, made our way back down to -- we started
making our way down and managed to get down to
South and -- it was South of Canal, near the
seaport.  We were down there.  You could see the
towers had collapsed and saw the smoke and all
the people running out towards us.  We were just
bogged down in so much traffic we couldn't get
through. .
          We couldn't get our way through because
of all the traffic and all the people.  We had
been hearing there were three staging areas being
set up.  We managed to stage at Chelsea Piers.
          But from that point on we managed to
get ourselves up to Chelsea Piers.  We didn't do
anything for the rest of the day.  We sat there
K. McLEON 6
and we waited like bumps on logs.  That was our
claim to fame.  That's all we really did.
     Q.   When you initially arrived on the
scene, were there other people at your location
when you arrived on Church between Dey and --
     A.   There were other BLS units and a couple
of medic units from Cabrini on the same side as
we were.  They had already started to set up a
triage and gather patients.
     Q.   Do you know any of these other people?
Would you know them by name?
     A.   I remember seeing one of them, a guy
named Andy, who was a medic.  I remember him.  We
also started to gather our patients.  Then when
we heard the large explosion, we took all we had,
put them in our ambulances, and waited for it to
die down a couple more seconds, got out, gathered
more patients.  Then I split, and after that I
don't know what anybody did.
     Q.   Do you know approximately what time it
was that you went 82?
     A.   It was probably somewhere in the area
of 9 -- somewhere around 9:30, 9:40, because
actually we were up -- at 10 to 10 we were
K. McLEON 7
already up at Cornell with the five people, the
five patients.  We were up at Cornell probably
about quarter to 10, 10 to 10.  We were up at
Cornell already, because we stayed there long
enough to hear the buildings had collapsed.
          I guess it was gut-wrenching to know we
couldn't get closer down to the scene as we
wanted and wound up getting sent down to Chelsea
Piers and then we sat there doing absolutely
nothing for the rest of the day, when you're
knowing that people from our own station were
down at the site doing more than you.
          That was really it.  That was -- I took
care of five people.  That's it.
     Q.   Is there anything else you'd like to
add to this interview?  Anything at all?
     A.   We'll never see something like this
again for the rest of our lives.  My partner and
I really were more mad at the fact that we
couldn't get down there.  We both knew we did the
right thing for our patients, especially the burn
victim, because if the burn victim didn't come
along, we were going to go to the nearest trauma
center, dump them off and then get back to the
K. McLEON 8
game.  She came along at the last second, and we
both made the decision that she's got to go to
the burn center.  That's what kept us out of
there.
          That's about it.
     Q.   Okay.
          MR. ECCLESTON:  This interview is being
     concluded at 33 minutes past 12.  The
     counter on the recorder reads 139.
          Thank you very much.
File No. 9110335
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
             EMT JODY BELL
   Interview Date:  December 15, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
J. BELL 2
          MR. ECCLESTON:  Today's date is
     December 15th, 2001.  The time is 1:05 a.m.
     my name is Christopher Eccleston of the New
     York City Fire Department, World Trade
     Center Task Force.  I am conducting an
     interview with the following individual.
          Please state your name, rank and shield
     number.
          EMT BELL:  My name is Jody bell, EMT,
     shield number 5209.
     Q.   Mr. Bell, were you assigned to the
World Trade Center disaster on 9/11?
A. Yes, I was.
     Q.   Can you please tell me in your own
words about the events of that day?
     A.   I was due in at work at 0900 hours.  So
being a resident from Staten Island, I commuted
that day on the ferry.  So I was aboard the 8:00
ferry leaving Staten Island.  So I reached the
city at approximately 8:30.  I had my car on the
ferry.
          A funny thing is I bumped into my
partner on the boat.  Being that it was Tuesday,
we were just talking about Monday night football,
J. BELL 3
just looking forward to a good day.  He had just
come off a three-day swing.  We were just looking
forward to a good day, because the weather was
nice and everything was pretty good.  Everything
was going fine.
          As I'm driving to work --
     Q.   Who was your partner that day?
     A.   Mike Mejias, Michael Mejias.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   As I'm driving to work, at around a
quarter to, I noticed that the traffic was
getting heavy.  I'm saying to myself I might be
late.  I'm wondering why there's all this
traffic, because there's never this much traffic.
This is my usual routine.
          That's when we noticed a whole bunch of
police cars responding somewhere.  So at first we
just -- we were thinking that maybe it's a bad
car accident or something of that nature.  My
partner said he noticed people looking up in the
air.  I was concentrating on getting to work.
I'm trying to get there on time.
          As we moved closer to the battalion,
we're about two blocks away, and I see all the
J. BELL 4
ambulances flying out of the station.  I'm like,
something's going on, man.  I see my lieutenant
standing in the middle of the street just like --
just flagging all the ambulances to leave.  He's
in a real excited state.
     Q.   Who was your supervisor?
     A.   This was Lieutenant Melarango.
          So then my partner says, "Stop the
car."  So we stop the car in the middle of the
street.  He's like, "Something's going on."  We
jumped out of the car.  We turned around, and we
see the building on fire.  We see the smoke
coming out of the building and automatically
assumed that we were bombed again, that another
bomb went off in the World Trade Center, there
was another attempt at trying to destroy the
World Trade Center.
          We immediately jumped back into the
vehicle, back into my car, and we get to the
station.  That's when we were informed that a
plane hit.  A plane had hit the World Trade
Center.  So we're in awe.  I just jumped out of
the car.  I left the lights on.  I didn't realize
that until like two days later when I tried to
J. BELL 5
start it, but that's beside the point.
          I was already in uniform, and my
partner wasn't.  So right away the lieutenant was
like, "Just get into a truck and get the fuck out
of here."  That's exactly what he said.
          I was already addressed, and my partner
ran upstairs.  He said, "Just meet me out there.
Be safe."  I was like, "I'll meet you out there.
Be safe."  So I jumped into a unit with another
EMT, Garfield Grey.  This is my first time really
meeting him.  We jumped into a unit together.  I
think it was unit 413.  We immediately proceeded
over to the site.  We got there about three
minutes later.
     Q.   Do you know about what time this was?
     A.   The scene was insane.
          I lost all track of time, to tell you
the truth.
Q. Okay.
     A.   Once I saw that the building -- it was
unreal, and I lost all track of time from there.
          We proceeded over to the site, and the
scene was hectic.  There were people running
everywhere.  There were units flying everywhere.
J. BELL 6
There was debris falling.  It was just the
worst -- it was the worst -- the horror on the
people's faces, they were scattering, running all
directions.
          At first we pulled the bus -- we pulled
the bus onto West Street about right in front
of -- I'd say right in front of One World Trade
Center on West Street, close to the corner of
Vesey.  We were just looking at the turn of
events and we said, you know what, let's go over
to the other side of the West Side Highway, just
to be safe, because our first move is scene
safety.
          So we crossed over to the other side of
the West Side Highway, and we parked the bus at
the corner of Vesey and West.
     Q.   Can you just indicate on the map with a
number 1 where you parked the vehicle?
     A.   So we parked the unit there.  We
unloaded it.  We threw everything we could onto
the stretcher.  I immediately ran to the corner.
My partner said he was going to move the bus back
even more to get the bus out of harm's way.  At
that point I didn't know where he had put the
bus.
J. BELL 7
          I immediately jumped into action.  I
started just rounding up people, because people
were running with second degree, third degree
burns, half their hair burned down to the scalp.
People had broken arms.  They were holding limbs.
It was a bad scene.  I saw a couple bodies
falling out of the building.
          I just gathered myself within a split
second, and I started gathering people to the
corner.  I had them all sit down, and I started
triage tagging people.  I was trying to listen to
the radio, as I was doing all of this, to find
out where a staging area could have been.  I
already had people -- I just started tagging
people.  I kind of lost track of time.
          My partner came back shortly after
that.  My partner came back.  The bus wasn't too
far away.  It was like a hundred yards away from
us.  He just jumped into action too.  He started
tagging people and just trying to gather people
towards us.
          Shortly after that nurses started
arriving on the scene.  I guess they had come out
J. BELL 8
of the building -- it looked like they were
coming out of the World Financial Center.
Anyway, there were nurses and other medical staff
that were starting to arrive on the scene.  Other
units were starting to arrive.  Everybody was
trying to lend a hand.
          I figure about a half hour later after
we arrived we had a good 20 to 30 people on that
corner we were trying to treat.  We were just
trying to treat them.
          We then hear this explosion.  We hear
this explosion, and our first reaction is the
plane was lodged in the building and it exploded
or parts of it were still in the building and
that exploded.
          Then people were screaming that another
plane hit.  I'm like, no way, there's no way.
From where I was, I couldn't see the other tower.
I saw the one tower.  I couldn't see the other
tower.  They said another plane hit.  So I'm
like, there's no way.  More people were starting
to say it.  Then it came over the radio.
          That's when I knew it was deliberate.
I knew it was deliberate.  At first I was
J. BELL 9
thinking maybe it was an accident, human error of
the worst kind.  But the second plane, I knew it
was deliberate.  I knew this was an attack.  I
wasn't even concentrating on that at the moment.
I was just trying to gather the people.
          Then the scene became even more hectic.
It became even more hectic.  We were just trying
to do what we can.  Now there were news people on
the scene, more units, more hands.  It was
becoming a more hectic scene.
          I'm not sure how much time passed after
that.  I lost track of time.  You start to hear
this rumble.  You hear this rumble.  Everything
is shaking.  Now I'm like, what the hell could
that be.  I'm thinking we're going to get bombed.
This is an air raid.
          You hear this thunder, this rumbling.
Then you see the building start to come down.
Everybody's like, "Run for your lives!  The
building is coming down!"
          At that moment when that building was
coming down, I was strapping a patient onto a
stair chair.  The thing about it was the patient
was stable, but she was in a bit of hysteria.  I
J. BELL 10
couldn't blame her.  It was a female.  She was
very nervous.
          So I had her sit in the chair and I put
some oxygen on her, because she wasn't breathing
right, she was hyperventilating.  I was just
trying to calm her down.  I was strapping her
onto the stair chair, and that's when the
building comes down.  So I strapped her on.
          As I this tidal wave, it's like a tidal
wave of soot and ash coming in my direction, my
life flashed before my eyes.  I made a U turn,
and I started to run -- I took about ten steps,
and the lady started screaming, "Don't leave me!
Don't leave me!"  That's when I gathered myself.
I got a hold of myself, wait, what the hell am I
doing?
          I turned back around.  I got her out of
the chair.  I said, "Ma'am, can you run?"  She
said, "Yes."  She took off.  I immediately made a
U turn, and I've never moved so fast in my life.
I don't think my feet were touching the ground.
My feet weren't touching the ground.
          Then shortly after that -- the building
came down.  It's like snow fall.  The cars are
J. BELL 11
covered.  The streets are covered.  I'm covered
and breathing in mouthfuls.  You couldn't see.
The scene was totally blacked out.  You're just
running in the direction that you think is away.
          I knew I was running -- this would be
westbound.  I was running westbound down Vesey.
I ran about a block to North End Avenue.  That's
when the building -- you could hear the sound.
The building came down.  The building finished
collapsing.
          So I immediately made a U turn and just
ran back, because I got separated from my
partner.  My partner Mike, who I rode with, I had
bumped into him -- between all of that I bumped
into him somewhere.  When other units started
arriving, he had finally arrived.
          So I immediately made a U turn.  I ran
back.  Now everybody's running back:  firemen,
policemen, EMTs, paramedics.  Everybody's running
back because we've got men in there, we had
equipment in there, and the people.  We were just
running back.  That was everybody's first -- not
even hesitating, just made a U turn and started
heading back.
J. BELL 12
          That's when over the radio you hear,
"Stand fast.  The north tower is leaning."  I'm
like, how is the north tower leaning?  See, once
I heard the second plane hit, I was thinking the
second plane hit one building, both planes hit
that one building, and that building had kind of
come straight down.  So all I saw was smoke
coming at me and everything else, and I just ran.
I still got bombarded with all of that stuff.
          When I came back this time, not only
was it snowing but I could see the tower, and the
tower was starting to break off.  It was kind of
looking like it was going to tip, and there was a
piece of the building coming down right on top of
me and Mike.  We were holding each other's hands
and we were like, "Whoa, look at that."
          We sat there like for a split second
and we just watched it in amazement that this
building was coming down, the second building was
coming down.  The building was hitting other
buildings.  It was hitting buildings over here.
It was crazy.
          Then we made another U turn, and
everything started rumbling again.  Another tidal
J. BELL 13
wave blacked out the whole scene.  This time it
was worse.  We were just running.  This time we
ran all the way back as far as we could to the
railing.  I was damn near ready to jump in the
river.  I swear to God, I was holding the
railing, looking back, as this thing's coming
towards us.  I was ready to jump in the water.
We were all gathered there.
          The debris went well into the Hudson.
It almost went to Jersey.  There was debris
almost to Jersey.  It was over our heads.  It was
just blowing.  There were papers -- the amount of
paper, it was like a ticker tape parade.  There
were like a billion times more paper.  We were
swatting paper out of our face, on top of the
soot and the ash and everything else.
          So then we stayed there.  More people
were coming.  I started cutting up sheets.  I had
sheets.  There was a stretcher like to the side.
I started cutting up sheets and started making
masks for everybody, because everybody's
coughing, breathing in mouthfuls of shit.  We
were all covered from head to toe.  I just
started cutting up sheets and whatever.
J. BELL 14
          Then we stayed in that one area.  I
think there was a fire chief in the area.  He
said to stand fast until further notice.  We
stood there.  A boat was in the Hudson, and they
called that boat in.  It had beverages and
reinforcements on the boat, water and everything.
They pulled that boat in and docked it, and we
unloaded it.
          As people were coming down Vesey,
coming down to the scene, we were just handing
out water, tagging them, treating them.
Everybody wants to go back, but we're told we
can't go back.  Now we smell fumes.  You smell
gas in the air.  You can damn near see fire.  You
could see fires blazing.
          That's when they say -- I don't know
how much time passed since then.  Now they're
like, "Gather anything you can, anything you can
retrieve, and head north to Chelsea Piers.
That's where the staging is going to be."
          So I grabbed the stretcher, and I ran
back about halfway between West and North End on
Vesey, and I was trying to gather my equipment.
All of my equipment was right there on that
J. BELL 15
corner.  I didn't have anything.  All I had on me
was my helmet I was wearing and my turnout coat.
My tech bag, all of my equipment was at that
corner.  I think the unit was at that corner, or
my partner had got out -- the guy I was with,
Garfield Grey, he was out of there.
          I was going to go back for the
ambulance, but I was told not to, because there
were ambulances on fire.  There were fire trucks
crushed.  So I went about halfway.  There was
nothing there to gather.  Then I came back up to
North End.
          Inside the lobby of this building
here -- I guess that's just an apartment
building -- they had a lot of equipment in there.
So we just gathered all of that equipment and
loaded up the stretcher about a good six feet
high and just walked that thing all the way up to
Chelsea Piers.  I walked behind along River
Terrace back onto West Street and then up to
Chelsea.
          We stayed up there a good -- I'd say a
good five hours.  By that time me and Mike had
hooked back up.  Now we were in unit 240.  The
J. BELL 16
unit was totally stripped.  We unloaded the unit.
Now it was totally stripped.  We were sitting up
there waiting for the word, just waiting for the
word when we could go back down.
          Now it's afternoon.  Now it's like
there's thousands of units.  You see units
rolling in from Baltimore, Philly, Jersey.
Everybody was out there, just lining up along
West Street on both sides of the street.  I'm
talking from about Chambers -- yeah, I would say
from Chambers all the way up to like 28th Street
you could see units lined up with no space in
between, bumper to bumper, all the way up West
Street.  That's as far as I could see.  I was
about at -- that's like 23rd.  I was at about
20th, 20th and West Street.
          We noticed around like, I guess, 4:00,
4 or 5:00 that we were running low on fuel, so we
asked for permission to refuel at Battalion 8, at
Bellevue Hospital.  So we were given permission.
We went that way --
          Oh, wait, another major thing.  When
that second building came down, as we were
running, you hear this thunder in the air.  This
J. BELL 17
was a scary part.  We hear thunder.  That's when
I'm like, oh, no, now they're going to bomb us.
You hear this thunder.  You know it's in the air,
but you don't see anything.  You just hear this
loud sound.  It's just getting bigger and bigger.
          Then you see our fighters in the air,
F-14s, whatever they were, F-18s.  Everybody just
got a new sense of hope.  We were all just
cheering, like "USA" and "shoot those mother
fuckers down."  We knew we were at war.  We knew
we were at war.
          When the Feds arrived, like the Secret
Service agent was near me, a couple Secret
Service agents, and they were just telling us
about the Pentagon.  That's when we found out
about the Pentagon and some of the other things
transpired down there.  Now that I think about
it, there's a lot I forget.
          Basically we waited up there for the
word to go back down.  Once we got to Bellevue,
the National Guard was already mobilized.  They
had check points along 23rd Street.  Once we got
to Bellevue, instead of heading back to -- since
we knew the bus was stripped, we called Battalion
J. BELL 18
4, which is our station.  We called from
Battalion 8 to ask if they wanted us to reload
the bus, restock the equipment.  So we were told
to restock the equipment at Battalion 4.
          So we drove down to our battalion, and
we restocked the bus.  Then we proceeded to the
ferry, which was another staging area.  They said
any injuries that were north of the site would go
to Chelsea; anything south would go to the ferry.
Since we're more south from the site, we headed
to the ferry after we stocked the bus, which was
around I guess 6, 7:00.  It was starting to get
dark.
          They were like, all pass days are
canceled.  You're going to work 12-hour shifts or
16-hour shifts or something like that.  All pass
days are canceled until further notice.
          So we went down to the ferry, and we
just sat there and waited for a while for
patients.  Everybody was really anxious to go
back.  Nobody wanted to sit there.  Nobody wanted
to sit there like that.  We were all getting
frustrated, truthfully.
          A few firefighters came in.  A few
J. BELL 19
firefighters with minor injuries came in.
Between the ferry and Chelsea Piers, they had
these units set up where they were ready to
perform major surgery.  They had surgery that was
really impressive, the organization of the whole
thing.
          It was really organized and really -- I
mean, in the middle of a disaster, we were really
prepared and we wanted to treat a lot of people,
but unfortunately we kind of knew there wasn't
going to be a lot of patients.  We knew, but we
were in denial.
          Then we sat at the ferry.  Me and Mike,
we stayed together.  We stayed until about 4:00
that morning, and then we were finally relieved.
We were both pretty exhausted, so we drove home.
I dropped him off at home.  Did he stay?  No, I
dropped him off.  We drove back to Staten Island
together.  I dropped him off at home.
          I finally went home, and the first
thing I did was turn the television on.  I was
exhausted.  I turned the TV, and I saw things
happen -- I saw the replay of the planes hitting,
and I couldn't believe what I was seeing.  It did
J. BELL 20
not register.  It didn't look real.  It looked
like toy planes.  I'm like, that's what happened
out there?  That's what happened out there?
          I think I watched TV for about six
hours straight.  I didn't go to sleep until well
into -- they told me to come back when I could on
Thursday -- I mean on Wednesday, Wednesday day.
I didn't get home until Wednesday morning.  I
watched TV until a good 12 or 1 in the afternoon.
I slept about two hours, and then I came back to
work.  I stayed another 16.
          When I got home I think it was around
Thursday night, and I woke up Friday morning and
I fell apart.  That's when I fell apart.  It
really hit me.  I was in shambles.  I was in bad
shape.  My wife was trying to console me.
          Once the buildings fell, cell phones
were out.  Everything was out.  I didn't even get
in contact with my family until I got to
Battalion 8, which was that afternoon.  Everybody
was hysterical.  My family was calling from all
over the country.  It was really -- it was
insane.  It was insane.
          I feel like a part of me is still out
J. BELL 21
there.  A part of me is out there with the people
(inaudible).  The whole situation has really
changed my life.  It's humbled me.  It's made me
real humble that every day is not guaranteed,
which I already knew but that even brought it
more, just in the business that we do.
          But a situation like that, that was --
in my imagination I can't think of devastation to
that magnitude.  Just -- every day I come back to
work it's like a nightmare that I can't wake up
from.  Every day I come back to work it's like,
no, they did not take those buildings down,
because I'm right downtown.  The unit I work sits
right downtown.
          Just as a kid I've always been amazed
by those buildings.  I was always amazed by those
buildings.  It's a part of our identity as New
Yorkers.  To see the skyline without those
buildings, especially the first few weeks coming
back to work with the smoke -- that smoke didn't
stop for a good month and a half after -- it was
totally unreal, totally unreal.
          My words don't even begin to touch the
surface of what happened that day.  I'm just
J. BELL 22
trying to put into some kind of perspective.  My
words don't even begin to touch the surface.
That's about it.
     Q.   Is there anything else you would like
to add to this interview?
     A.   I would just like to give my -- I don't
know if it's proper, but I just want to -- all
the guys that responded, fire, police, EMS,
private, just everybody all across the country,
it was a really heroic effort.
          Speaking for the guys at Battalion 4,
we all -- I'm very appreciative that we're all
accounted for.  Some guys were missing for a
little while, but for the most part we're all
accounted for.  That's more than we can say for a
lot of guys.  I just feel sorry for everybody
that was out there.  I dedicate my career, the
rest of my career in the Fire Department to the
people that died that day.
          That's about it.
     Q.   Thank you very much for doing this
interview with me.
          MR. ECCLESTON:  The time is 1:31, and
     the counter reads 390.
File No. 9110336
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
             BARRETT HIRSCH
   Interview Date:  December 17, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          MR. CUNDARI:  Today is December 17, 2001.
     The time is 719 hours.  I'm George Cundari, New
     York City Fire Department, conducting an interview
     with the following individual.
     Q.   Please state your name, rank, title and
assign command.
     A.   Barrett Hirsch, paramedic, New York City Fire
Department, Battalion 58, Division 3.
     Q.   Okay, Barrett, can you please tell us the
events regarding is tragic day of September 11?
     A.   Well, starting about roughly 10:15, 10:20, we
received an assignment to respond to the Borough of
Manhattan.  Initially, our first response was not to
where the World Trade Center was, but to an unconscious
patient somewhere in the general vicinity.
          We responded from Brooklyn, and basically
once winding up in the borough, we came across one of
the local bridges.  From the explosion back in '93, I
knew that the towers would pretty much be an odd ball
shot of getting there.  Came across the Manhattan
Bridge, and that's -- you can basically see pretty much
both towers engulfed in flames.
          We shot down toward our assignment, which was
just west of Broadway, and did a canvas of the area.
3
Once we made contact with the Brooklyn dispatcher, we
went to the tower, at which point the first tower
collapsed, so when we finally got it to a staging area,
one of the two that initially had been set up, they
were worried about the integrity of the second tower,
so we went into another area.
     Q.   Did you witness the tower collapsing?
     A.   The second tower.  We were about --
     Q.   The first tower.  Did you see it as you were
approaching?
     A.   To be honest, Bill may have seen it.  I was
busy driving the vehicle and trying not to hit the
pedestrians that were around, because obviously there
were a lot, a lot of traffic.
          So once we got to one of the first primary
staging areas, at that time.  We were directed just to
get the vehicles out.  They were trying to establish a
secondary.
     Q.   Were you seeing any patients at that time
after the collapse?
     A.   Not initially, not initially.  I think most
people were just trying to basically evacuate the
area.  It was basically a lot of the same stuff you saw
back from -- at least that I saw back in '93, a lot of
4
little people with soft tissue stuff, but most people
just trying to get out.
          Once we set up the second area, we started to
get ourselves back down towards the second tower so we
can assist in patient care.
     Q.   Who was at that staging area?
     A.   To be honest, I really -- I remember seeing
some of our vehicles and one or two voluntaries, but
not one particular officer was in charge, so I really
couldn't give you the name as far as who was basically
calling the shot.
          As we started to make our way up is when I
happened to look up, and I saw a lot of people, you
know, jumping out of the building.  Then I noticed,
like, the top of the tower seemed to shoot up a little
bit and start to fall down a little bit, and that's
when Bill Simon and I, who was my partner, just bolted
in towards one of the other overpasses just to get some
cover, and--
     Q.   So you ran north?
     A.   We ran north up the Westside Highway, and
just went into  -- several police officers were
shooting out doors so we could get in, just trying to
secure a safe area for us as the second collapsed, at
5
which point -- once some of the debris and the last big
pillar of smoke, we were able to get out, just start
working our way back up to towards what was left now of
the second tower, and we just, like, left the vehicle
where it was, and I don't even remember at that point.
I think it was where the second one (inaudible).
Somewhere near Murray, I believe, and we just started
working our way back down towards the trade center.
          At that point, there was pretty much a lot of
mass confusion at that point.  It was just like
everybody knew whatever resources had been in the
immediate area were probably just wiped.  I ran into
one of my old S.O.D. lieutenants, Lieutenant Santiago.
He and I immediately kind of like snapped into some of
our old S.O.D. training.  We started just, like,
gathering units together, see if we can create like a
secondary staging area.
          We saw a lot of little soft tissue stuff, a
couple of respiratory distresses.  We were finding some
half crews.  We did our best to, like, put them
together and see if we could coordinate getting the
most critical moved up to Chelsea where we heard --
whatever they -- I guess they made that their primary
staging and just whatever we could find, just trying to
6
          And that's basically how that -- that part of
the event went -- seemed like several hours, but I know
it was only several minutes.  Bill and I at that point
had separated, Bill Simon and I had separated.  Bill
hooked up with -- I don't know his name.  He was one of
the lieutenants from Manhattan.  He was from Bellevue.
He went up to Chelsea Pier with the vehicle, and Jerry
Lieutenant Santiago, tried to keep it in the Haz-Mat
realm.
     Q.   Basically, so really not many patients after
the collapse?
     A.   No, not really.  Not like back in '93.  I
mean '83.  '93.
          Then once all the bosses started to get over
their primary shock, they started to get the sector
commands back, established again, including the Fire
Department, we had a small -- they were actually
gathering some of the old Haz-Mat teams together and
some of the old USAR teams.  Was all part of S.O.D. at
that time.  The whole area was -- they were deciding
whether or not we were going to suit up, or how and
when USAR was going to get activated.
get crews together and start taking care of the
patients.
7
     A.   Second tower?
     Q.   North tower collapsed.
     A.   North tower collapsed.  North tower, I was
probably somewhere between -- probably between either
Murray and Barclay, or Barclay and Vesey.
     Q.   On West Street?
     A.   On West, yeah.
     Q.   You guys just ran up?  You didn't go into a
building anywhere there?
     A.   Trying to go up?
     Q.   You ran north when you --
     A.   Oh, you mean after the tower collapsed?
     Q.   When it started collapsing.
     A.   Yeah, we just ran north probably more towards
Barclay.
     Q.   Did you go into a building there?
     A.   Yes.  Probably down a little bit further when
we stopped running was on the other side of Warren
Street where the school is.  We ducked into the --
there's an overpass from one school over to the other,
and we ducked into the school.
          Basically after that it was just -- at that
     Q.   Where were you exactly when the tower
collapsed?
8
point they started bringing us into one of the other
secondary schools, and they started putting medics with
EMTs and going down to the pile to see if they could
find anything.  I did that for the next day or so.
     Q.   A long time.
     A.   Yeah, it was a long day.
     Q.   How was your radio communications?
     A.   Well, to be honest, other than
point-to-point, as far as, like, trying to hear some
of, like, either Brooklyn central or Manhattan, it was
very scratchy, pretty much unreadable.
          What little I did hear was mostly on the --
Bill and I, we were staying point-to-point, we were on
the local TAC frequency, so that that kept us -- at
least he knew what I was doing, and I knew what he was
doing to make sure we were safe.  So that went -- like
because I knew, like, the lower Manhattan frequency was
just trash.  They didn't need to know where we were
going through or any other nonsense.
          You could hear -- every once in awhile I
switched over to citywide to see if anything was
going.  When I had run into Dr. Gonzalez, he basically
wanted to know -- once again, it goes back to the old
SOD days.  He was, like, oh, what do we have here,
9
here, here and here.  I'm like, this isn't the old SOD
days.  I don't have any details for you like I used to
be able to get.
Q. Right.
     A.   And it was very -- that was very -- that was
very annoying to me personally.
     Q.   Because you didn't have the equipment?
     A.   I didn't have the equipment.  I didn't have
the resources, and I didn't have the additional -- just
basically additional information to be able to play
with, some of the tools that I had earlier.  That kind
of made me feel pretty much worthless.  I just didn't
like that at all.
     Q.   So when you arrived, they were talking about
a secondary collapse?
     A.   They were already concerned about the --
     Q.   So they were moving things around?
     A.   Like that, they were trying to get things
reorganized after the first blast they -- I know they
started some of the crews and somebody over in the
other tower and --
     Q.   Who was talking about that?
     A.   It was just (inaudible) around the area.  I
couldn't be specific as to what particular boss
10
mentioned it or --
     Q.   Fire chiefs were there?
     A.   Everybody was there.  Everybody was squared
off at that point, because they already knew they lost
one building.  It's only a matter of time -- the second
is less than 200 feet away, so yeah, everybody was
pretty much concerned.
          Fire was pulling back.  We were pulling
back.  P.D. was screaming get their guys out.
Everybody was -- everybody was just trying to get the
fuck out at that point.  Trying to -- you saw a lot of
people taking people with them.  Nobody was like -- I
mean, they tried to make this about as organized as
that could be, but --
          MR. CUNDARI:  Thank you for conducting this
     interview.  The time is 7:31.  This concludes the
     interview.
File No. 9110337
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER ROBERT HUMPHREY
   Interview Date:  December 13, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  The date is December
     13, 2001.  The time is 1700 hours.
          This is Battalion Chief Ronald H. Kemly of
     the Fire Department of the City of New York.  I'm
     conducting an interview with the following
     individual:  Firefighter Robert Humphrey of Engine
     Company 4, firefighter 1st grade, of the City of
     New York Fire Department.
          The interview is taking place at the quarters
     of Engine Company 4 regarding the events of
     September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Firefighter Humphrey, would you please tell
me in your own words what happened on September 11,
2001.
     A.   Well, we didn't get the run normally, because
our computer was out, and the department phone was not
working.  So the first time we heard was when a Spanish
gentleman was running down the block saying there was a
big explosion at the World Trade Center, and then
shortly after that over the voice alarm we heard,
"Explosion in the World Trade Center.  Stand by for
assignments."  Then we didn't hear nothing after that.
          We figured we were going, so we took off, but
before we went, there was a major traffic jam.  Usually
Humphrey
3
we would have gone right out of quarters, but we went
left and I took a little different position, but ended
up putting me right where I needed to go.
          It was backed up, so the guy said, "Don't go
that way.  Don't go that way."  So I went left, and I
saw there was traffic all the way through the tunnel,
because usually we go under the battery tunnel and go
around, so we went down through Fulton Street to Church
to Vesey, and then when I parked at Vesey right under 5
and 1 World Trade across the street from 7 World Trade
and West Broadway.
          West Broadway leads into Vesey, and I was
right against the building, where there's a subway
entrance into down in the trade center.  There was a
hydrant right there, and I hooked up there.  At that
time, it was Captain Farrelly, and the rest of the guys
got out of the rig, and I realized that we had another
guy on the rig, and I didn't know at the time, because
everybody jumped into the rig, and we had Richie Allen
jumped into the rig, because he got relieved earlier.
So we had an extra space, because we were a four-man
engine company, so he came along.
          So Richie.  We had Charlie Anaya, Richie --
Jimmy Riches, Tommy Schoales, and Richie Allen and
Humphrey
4
Captain Farrelly took off toward West Street, and we
waited at that part of the building.
          After that, I was -- basically I wasn't
watching.  I just know which way they were going.  I
was busy hooking up to the Siamese, which was supposed
to be supplying one end to the World Trade Center right
over there, so I hooked up to the Siamese.
          As I was waiting, then all of a sudden the
second engine company pulled up right next to 7 World
Trade Center, which is on West Broadway and Vesey, but
they were right across.  They were right next to it,
directly to the east of 7 World Trade Center and across
from the post office.
          Then I helped him hook up, and then after
that I think it was 21 engine, 21 or 22.  I think it's
21, though.  He hooked up a little further down on
Vesey Street.  Maybe it was 50 yards from the corner of
West Broadway, and then we dragged hose all the way
over to the Siamese.  So we had one Siamese full, with
two -- three halves hooked up, and another Siamese with
one line hooked up.  So we had three pumpers pushing
water into the building.
          At that point between actually -- probably
before the third engine company came is when the second
Humphrey
5
plane hit, and I was in the middle of the street at the
time, and it came -- the plane came from the south, so
I saw very little of the plane.  I only saw a flash
going on the side of the building where the opening is,
and then the explosion.  That's when I took cover
inside the rig, because everything was -- all the metal
and stuff was coming down on the rig and in the
streets, you know, stuff from the plane, and metal and
whatever, and glass, and et cetera.
          So I jumped into the rig until everything
was -- it was safe to come out, you know, out of the
building.  Then I came out.  At that point a couple of
things happened, I guess before that.
          It was -- somebody wanted to borrow my gear,
so I told him, "No, because I'm going to probably need
it."  Usually as the chauffeur I'm wearing just the
regular pants and stuff, because you're running around,
and then right after that, I put all my gear on right
away, because I knew this is not -- this is not your
normal, everyday thing which is going on right now.
          So I had all my bunker gear on.  I put
everything on, my helmet.  The only thing I didn't have
is a mask, because we didn't have an extra mask in the
rig, and the extra guy that was in our rig took the
Humphrey
6
mask, so I had no mask, and I had no light, and -- but
I did have my helmet and my coat and whatever.  I just
wore that for the rest of the tour.
          I was working with 28, so I was talking to
him a lot.  Since we were kind of the closest, and --
well -- and then as time went by, saw a lot of people
jumping off the building all different ways, and I
couldn't -- from where I was, I can't see them land,
luckily, because that would have been -- I ended up
seeing it later when I went after the first collapse
when I came back, but I seen about 15, 20 people jump
from my angle, and I know there were a lot more,
because on the south side they said they saw a lot of
people jump.
          I was on the north side of the building so
that's what I saw, and there was no -- there were a lot
of pedestrians around, cops trying to keep them back,
but there were a lot of people looking at that point
and then -- I remember now when it was -- when the
building came down exactly.
          Oh, I was in the middle of the street.  What
I did was after -- also after the second plane hit, I
knew that I didn't want to get hit with any stuff,
because I saw a lot of stuff come down, so I was
Humphrey
7
looking for a place I can duck my head under so I
wouldn't get something landing on top of me, not that I
thought the building was going to come down, but maybe
pieces of the building.
          So I saw there was like a delivery tunnel in
the post office inside of West Broadway and Vesey.
There were five cops there.  They were hanging out
there, so well, if anything happens, duck in.  Thank
God I did that, because all of a sudden when I was
standing in the middle of the street, here comes the
south tower, starts coming down.
          Took off into the tunnel.  We got blasted a
little bit, but nobody got too much stuff on their head
from that angle.  We just got a blast, and the dust and
everything else, and the cops had some flashlights, and
there was one security guard in the building, and he
basically knew where he was going even though he was
taking us back out from where the blast was, taking us
back to the west side.
          So I told him, "Why are you taking us back
where we were?  Take us out towards Church Street, you
know, towards the east side."  So we went back, up and
around, and we had to go up a flight of stairs, because
we were in the basement and, we went out that way.
Humphrey
8
          There was a guy they pulled in from Church
Street that was hurt bad, and I was taking care of him,
and nobody had -- there was no water.  There was
nothing, so I ended up taking him -- bringing him all
the way to Broadway, got into an ambulance.  First I
got him cleaned up at a post, because I guess they set
up posts right after the plane hit, and the first --
actually the first two planes, after the planes hit.
They set up a post and a first-aid station.
          I brought him over there, got his face
cleaned up, and then I brought him to an ambulance,
because everybody was getting out of there.  They said
it wasn't safe, so I took him to Broadway and got him
into an ambulance.  Then I went back toward the rig.
          When I was on Church Street, I saw a lot of
bodies laying all over the place.  I was trying to help
a couple of engine companies that were already
operating, because I was by myself, obviously, at that
point.  Mostly dead.  Some were alive.  There was body
parts a lot of places right in front of the building.
I went down pretty far down towards Church, and then I
was coming back, and then I saw my rig.  Then I saw
water shooting across the street in the opposite
direction from the building, and I was -- and that's
Humphrey
9
what brought me back also, from helping other people
too.
          I was saying, "Who the hell turned -- pulled
the gate?"   I was saying, "Who the heck pulled it?"
So I went down, and I wanted to see what was going on,
if there was a malfunction or something, but somebody
pulled the gate full blast and was shooting across the
street.
          So I shut that gate, turned the pressure back
up so there was water in the building.  I didn't know
if anybody was actually using the water, but I just did
what I was supposed to do at that point.
          Then I saw a couple of guys from one truck,
Rogers was one, and he had somebody else with him, and
then he wanted to know where everybody went.  I told
him they went around West Street, and they took off by
the rig, and they went up that way.
          I went back across the street to 28 engine to
find out how the chauffeur was doing.
          Let me back up just a touch.  I saw 21
engine, and it was really malfunctioning.  It was
going -- it was like really doing weird things, the
engine.  I don't know if it was pumping properly or
not.  It didn't sound like it, let's put it that way.
Humphrey
10
          It was having failure, heart failure, and
then I saw 28 show up, and then I went over to him, and
the rig wasn't on, and he says to me, "My rig broke
down."  Probably with all the dust and everything might
have clogged it up, whatever, because everybody was
pumping before that happened.
          So my rig was the only one pumping at that
point.  Then I asked him, "How did you get out?"  He
said, "I went back to the rig."  I said, "That's -- I
don't know about this one.  This one's a lot closer to
us than the other one."  I says, "I don't know if I'd
do that," but I says, "All right."  We had some
conversation, kind of looking up at the building, and
it was no more than 30 seconds later that the other one
came down, and I just yelled, "Come this way," and then
he went the other way, and then I just took off into
the tunnel, but this time there was a ton of stuff
coming down, major stuff, and I was in the middle of
the street, and I just like made -- I just made it
through, because I felt the blast come right through,
and even the cars in there were getting pushed out.
          I jumped over this railing, and on the
platform, and I just like laid there for a second while
all the shit was coming by me, and everything just
Humphrey
11
stopped.  All the stuff was covering the entrance where
I was in.  Later on, of course, we found that he was
alright, but he did get blown back pretty good.
          So I was stuck in there, and I had nobody in
there.  It was me.  I had no light, nothing.  It was
pitch black.  So I was trying to find my way out, and I
was debating myself, you know, should I have gone
back.  I did, but it was kind of one of those things,
you know, flip a coin, and -- well, I went a little
forward.
          I thought I knew -- I thought I knew where I
was.  You don't know until it's pitch black, because
when I went forward, what I thought I knew, I ended up
finding an elevator, and I felt in there.  I felt the
metal and the felt the cloth.  This is not where I want
to go, so I ended up having to back pedal, trying to go
back where I came, just a little bit, and all I could
feel was the heat and smoke coming in, so I just had to
try to find a wall.
          I found a wall, and I just stayed along the
wall the whole time.  It took me 20 minutes to a half
an hour.  I ended up getting my way out of the
building, which is lucky.  I don't know how I didn't
hit any hitch somewhere or some dead end.  I was on
Humphrey
12
Barclay and Church, I guess, Barclay and Church.  I
came out somewhere over there.  I had a feeling I was
coming towards something, because I started feeling a
little breeze, and I felt the breeze coming in, because
when I got deep into the building, in the basement,
there was no more debris.  It was just straight dust.
There was no more garbage or no metal.  I was just
riding around.
          So when I finally got around, I felt this
little breeze, and I just kept going toward it, and
then my eyes were half closed, because I really took a
good blast on that, and I was just looking, and I saw
it said "Barclay Street," and I said, "Shit, I'm out of
here," and I just took off.  I thought I was going in
the right direction.  I went towards Church and went a
couple of blocks up, and then I saw -- the first real
person I saw was somebody with a camera about a block
and a half up.  He was taking pictures of me coming out
of there.  Then the next fireman I saw, who gave me a
lift back to the post, was Danny Lynch.  He was riding
around in a suburban, his own suburban.  He's an old
Manhattan trustee, and he drove me back to West Street
so I could get accounted for.
          Backtracking, Smigeons -- and I'll tell you,
Humphrey
13
when I was back inside the cellar, I was -- when I was
running in, I looked behind me, and I saw somebody else
run in.  I know it wasn't the chauffeur from 28.  It
was somebody else.  I actually stopped, and I called
out.  I yelled about three times, and nobody answered,
so I don't know what happened to that person.
          Then I used my radio, and I was calling -- I
said, "Engine 4 chauffeur to 28 chauffeur."  I had
nothing on it.  There was nobody calling anything, no
Mayday or nothing.  I called him.  I got no answer.  So
that's when I started to move because I figured that
was it.  I'm on my own at that point.  You know, I
called several times.  I said -- and I didn't know
whether to call Mayday myself, because I really didn't
know where the hell I was, but I figured I'd give it a
shot.  Maybe it was a mistake, I don't know, but until
I felt like I was --- they said, if you feel like
you're ready to go, then it's too late, but I can
compose myself at that point.
          Once I knew I was getting nervous, then I was
going to call Mayday.  Tell you the truth, I don't
think anybody would have heard me, because nobody
responded.  I didn't hear anything on my radio,
nothing.  So, I mean, I don't know how good the
Humphrey
14
communications is in the basement over there, but I
couldn't get out where I came from, because it was high
enough where -- and I couldn't even see.  All I know is
this stuff blowing out, and I couldn't take the chance
going the same way I came from, because I knew it was
no good.  During all the radio contact, the only thing
I could say is when I talked to other people, they said
that Engine 4 was with Engine 28 and Engine 7, and they
were on the 30th Floor, and then they were making their
way down all together.
          They got down to the lobby, and I think the
guy -- lieutenant from 28 said, "We're going to make a
break for it."  At that point, that's when
everything -- you know, everything was coming down, I
guess.  They all went, I don't know which way, and 4
didn't get out, and 7 and 28 did.
          I wasn't with them, so I don't know what
direction anybody went, but as far as I know, they all
got down to the lobby at that point.  Then 7 and 28 got
out and 4 didn't, so...
     Q.   Do you have anything else to add?
     A.   Let's hope it doesn't happen again.
     Q.   I have a couple of questions.
     A.   Sure.
Humphrey
15
     Q.   You said the second engine.  Was that 21
engine?
     A.   No, no.  Second engine got there, 28.
     Q.   28, and then 21 came in?
     A.   Yes, I think it was 21.
     Q.   Those engines that you helped when you were
coming back after you took the guy to Broadway, do you
know --
     A.   You know what?  It was -- I was doing EMS
work.  I was -- one guy was dead -- I didn't know he
was dead.  I was going on the ground when they ended up
putting his jacket over his head.  He was dead.
Q. Right.
     A.   And another one we were working on, he was
doing CPR on him.
     Q.   So these are the companies?  They weren't the
pumpers?
     A.   No, this is companies.
     Q.   You don't remember any of there --
     A.   Because I came back from Broadway, because
when I finally got out of building, and I was helping
this guy, got all the way to Broadway.  Then I didn't
want to leave him hanging, so I got him over to
Broadway, got him to an ambulance, and then I took off
back.
Humphrey
16
          That's why it really wasn't a lot of time, so
when I finally got back and talked to 28 engine, that's
when the tower came down, so I didn't really have
enough time to, you know.  One sigh, and then the
freaking building came down.
     Q.   Right.  No, I meant, you said on the way --
     A.   Right.  On the way back, I really don't know
what companies I was working, but it wasn't anybody
from 21, and it wasn't anybody from 28.  It was a
company that came in probably to help.  Could have been
both companies, could have been it -- I really don't --
I really don't even know.
Q. Okay.
     A.   All I know is I was just helping out,
whatever I could do, and then I saw the rig, and then I
went over to the rig.
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  Great.  Thanks for
     your time.  Thanks for the interview.
          This concludes the interview.
File No. 9110338
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER DAVID VITIELLO
  Interview Date:  December 13, 2001.
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
D. VITIELLO
2
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Today's date is
     December 13, 2001.  The time is 4:47 p.m.
     Q.   This is Battalion Chief Robert Burns, New
York City Fire Department, Safety Battalion, conducting
an interview with --
     A.   David Vitiello, Firefighter David Vitiello.
     Q.   From Ladder 122, in regard to the events of
September 11, 2001.  If you would, Dave, in your own
words, just tell us what happened on that day.
     A.   Okay.  We saw the first plane hit.  We didn't
see the first plane hit.  We saw the fire on the news
in the morning.  We didn't know if it was a plane at
that time.  Within five, ten minutes, we got the deal
on where we are getting sent over.  We still didn't
know if it was terrorists or whatever.  Ladder 122
responded, I think, on the second alarm.
          We went to the staging area, which was on the
Brooklyn side of the Battery Tunnel.  There I remember
seeing 132 behind us, Ladder 132 behind us.  There was
lots of units there.  Within the commotion I think
Ladder 132 was able to get in front of us.  We were
trying to move cars and what not.
          Got through the bridge -- actually we saw the
second plane hit from across the river.  Then they sent
`3 D. VITIELLO
            every Brooklyn unit that was at the staging area to the
            World Trade.  Got over to the other side of the tunnel,
            I wasn't really looking at units.  I wasn't looking at
            companies.  I was looking at what was going on around
            me.  We pulled up past, I think, 132.  We parked past
            the second -- first tower, the north tower, and then we
            started heading back towards the command post, which
            was directly across from tower one in the World
            Financial Center, the big black building.
                      We got there.  I remember seeing Chief Ganci
            there.  Who else was there.  He was the only one I
            recognized.  I can't remember any companies that were
            around me.  Then Captain Metcalf who worked here, who
            survived, he worked here a few times, he gave us the
            orders to go into tower two, the south tower, and we
            went through on the pedestrian walk on Liberty Street
            and went into the corner door on Liberty and West,
            which was -- actually we were going into the Marriott,
            which I thought we were going into the tower, but I
            didn't know that building that well, but actually we
            were in the Marriott lobby.
                      Then I saw Engine 58, was right next to us,
            the Engine, I remember that.  I heard from other guys
            that were there with me that Ladder 101 was in there.
D. VITIELLO
4
That they saw guys with patches from 101 and 132, as
well, Ladder 105.  I didn't notice any patches from any
of those guys, but I know for sure 58 Engine was right
next to us.
          Then the building came down, there was a lot
of commotion.  I got out.  Found me and another guy
from -- Jerry Casey from Ladder 122, we came across a
fireman underneath an ambulance, crushed.  I don't know
what company he was from, but he was right by the
pedestrian walk on Liberty.  Maybe, I don't know at
that point where I saw a walk, pedestrian walk was
there.  Then I lost Jerry, who is in my company, I got
blinded by some of the soot.  He walked off and
everybody was shell shocked and I lost track of him and
then I was by myself.  Couldn't tell which way was
what.  Trying to find the rig.  I ended up -- I know
for sure I went south on West Street, which was good,
because within a few minutes, the second tower came
down.
          Actually I ran into Engine 228, which had
just come over through the tunnel.  I spoke to the
officer.  I think everybody survived.  I found out
everybody survived from that Engine, I think, from what
I heard from people.  He told me -- I asked him if he
D. VITIELLO
5
had seen my company, he said no.  He said sit in the
rig.  I had a radio.  I had the irons and he said sit
in the rig.  If they call for them -- if the command
center calls for them, to call him and let him know
where they wanted him to go.  He said just sit in the
rig and try to get your whereabouts.  I said okay.
          I sat in the rig and within -- they walked
maybe like 20, 30 steps and the second tower started
coming down.  I jumped out of their rig and started
running down West Street towards the tunnel.  Some cop
waved me into a city bus, I jumped inside there.  There
was like 5 or 6 firemen there.  We all huddled on the
ground when all the debris and smoke and everything hit
the bus.  Stood in there for like 20 minutes.
          Then when the smoke cleared, we walked all
the way down to the water.  It was like a MERV command
RV, Fire Department RV thing.  Nobody was really in
there.  I signed my name there.  They were taking names
to make sure who was survived.  I can't remember
anybody's helmets that were in there.  There was only
like 3 guys in the whole thing.  One guy working in and
two or three other firemen besides me.
          Then I came back to the site to find my
guys.  I walked around the water side, because you
D. VITIELLO
6
couldn't go down West Street any more because it was
blocked from all the debris.  I walked around the water
side and I can't remember any helmets or any companies
or anything.
          Finally I heard my chauffeur talk to my
officer asking him something and I just cut in on him
and went over the air, Irons to 122.  They said, "Oh
Dave, you're alive," or whatever.  I asked them their
location.  They told me where they were.  Then
something came over the radio.  There was some gasoline
underneath the ground and everybody should evacuate the
area.  I was stuck down by the waterfront.  I had no
place to go.  I saw everybody running north on West
Street and I was by the boats.  There were boats
leaving to go to Jersey.
          But they kept calling for me to meet them by
Chambers and West, so I tried to get over there.
Finally got over there and they weren't there.  They
had gone north and I went north on West Street and I
saw my chauffeur, saw his bright red hair.  I went up
and that's all I remember.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  All right.  Great
     Dave.  The time is 4:56 p.m.  That concludes our
     interview.
File No. 9110339
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER KEVIN QUINN
   Interview Date:  December 13, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
K. QUINN
2
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Okay.  Today's date
     is December 13, 2001.  The time is 1:28 p.m. I'm
     Battalion Chief Robert Burns, Safety Battalion New
     York City Fire Department.
     Q.   I'm conducting an interview with?
     A.   Firefighter Kevin Quinn, assigned to Engine
271.
     Q.   This is in regard to the events of September
11, 2001.  If you would, Kevin, just tell us in your
own words what happened on that day?
     A.   I was starting my second tour of a 24.  We
got the call to respond to, I believe it was Engine 6,
to relocate to the World Trade Center.  Came over the
Brooklyn Bridge.  Obviously saw a lot of smoke from the
towers.  We ended up on Murray and Greenwich Street.
My officer transmitted over the air that we were a few
blocks out from the box.  Should we take it in.  They
told us to stand by.
          Looking up at the towers and it looked like
it just basically imploded.  Then I guess the cloud
came right at us and we got zero visibility, we
couldn't breathe.  We got -- put on our masks and tried
to orientate ourselves where we were.  From our vantage
point on Murray and Greenwich, didn't see any other
K. QUINN
3
fire apparatus or officers or firemen in the whole
vicinity.
          After that, we worked our way over to West
Street and we were headed towards -- we got our extra
equipment off the rig, extra bottles, anything we could
carry down towards the towers to see if we could help.
The Battalion Chief, I believe, I don't remember his
name, he told us to fall back and as we were falling
back, I think we were on West Street, I think Murray
again when the second one came down, same thing.
          It just -- a lot of firemen running out.  I
didn't recognize any particular rigs at the time.  Then
we were all -- when we moved the command post back we
staged in the area there.  Then approximately I guess
maybe two hours before number 7 came down, we went into
Ground Zero and helped dig around and was there when
they located Chief Feehan and one of the Chiefs pulled
us all out because they said 7 was going to come down.
We just went on the side of the financial building.
          That is about it.  Besides digging after
number 7 came, I went back in, but it was basically
when they both came down I was just basically blinded
by the dust.  You couldn't see anything.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Okay, great.  The
4
                K. QUINN
time is 1:30 p.m.  Thanks for the interview.
File No. 9110340
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
   FIREFIGHTER CHRISTOPHER JARONCZYK
   Interview Date:  December 13, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
C. JARONCZYK
2
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Okay.  Today's date
     is December 13, 2001.  The time is 2:36 p.m. I'm
     Battalion Chief Robert Burns, Safety Battalion New
     York City Fire Department.
     Q.   Conducting an interview with?
     A.   Christopher Jaronczyk.
     Q.   Of Engine Company 236, in regards to the
events of September 11, 2001.  If you would in your own
words Christopher tell us what happened that day.
     A.   Okay.  We got relocated after the second
plane hit from our quarters into Manhattan to Engine
15.  We proceeded to Manhattan, responded to Engine
15.  When we got there we took in a run from the smoke
in the area.  Somewhere down near the Seaport area, we
took that run in.  We got there, we gave a 1033 and
from there we were instructed to go to World Trade.
          By that time, one of the towers had already
come down.  We proceeded over towards the World Trade.
We parked the rig, I believe it was on Maiden Street,
somewhere near Liberty Place.  Got out of the rig,
donned our masks and by that time the second tower had
come down.  This was approximately around 11 a.m. and
we were about 2 or 3 blocks away.  The area was already
in total darkness from the dust cloud from the first
C. JARONCZYK
3
collapse and as we proceeded we heard and felt the
second collapse and we ducked into an ATM machine to
let the dust cloud pass by.
          Then we proceeded down to, I believe it was
Broadway and headed north up to Ann Street and Vesey
and Park Place near City Hall.  There was a makeshift
command center.  We were there for about 20 minutes
awaiting orders.  We were by then ordered to go down to
World Trade, in front of 2 World Trade Center to start
doing whatever we could, either searching for victims
or survivors.
          As far as seeing any bodies, we didn't see
anything.  We didn't see -- we saw other firemen, but
we didn't see any other trapped firemen.  We didn't see
anybody really in need of help.  We pretty much
concentrated our efforts on the corner of Trinity Place
and Liberty.  We were putting out small fires,
searching buildings, the adjacent buildings, for any
signs of life.  We really didn't see anything.
          That pretty much proceeded throughout the
whole day for us.  It was very -- visibility was very
low for most of the day due to the dust cloud and of
course, our eyes were all watery because of that.
Breathing was very difficult.  We just proceeded to,
C. JARONCZYK
4
you know, we tried to get around the perimeter of the
whole area.  We really couldn't get down towards West
Street because it was all blocked by debris.  So we
concentrated most of our efforts, like I said, near
Liberty and Trinity.
          However, we did make it down to West Street.
We weren't able to go north on West Street because like
I said, all the debris.  That's about it.  We really
didn't see other companies.  We saw lots of other
firemen, but we didn't see any trapped firemen.  We
weren't able to rescue any.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Okay.  Great Chris,
     thanks.  That concludes the interview, it's 2:41
     p.m.

FILE NO 9110341
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER FIRST GRADE DAN WALKER INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 12 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

WALKER
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN DECEMBER 12 2001
THE TIME IS 1925 HOURS THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT SAFETY BATTALION
IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH FIREFIGHTER FIRST GRADE DAN WALKER OF ENGINE 216 WHO IS DETAILED TO 212 REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001
WE ARE IN THE QUARTERS OF 212 AND THERE IS NOBODY ELSE PRESENT IN THE ROOM WHERE WE ARE
THIS INTERVIEW WHAT FOLLOWS NOW IS THE INTERVIEW
GO AHEAD AND TELL ME WHAT YOU WANT
YOU KNOW WE WERE IN QUARTERS THAT DAY WE SAW IT ON TV WE SAW THAT THE FIRST TOWER WAS ON FIRE
AT THAT POINT BUNCH OF MEMBERS WENT UP ON THE ROOF
HAVING
AND WENT INTO THE HOUSE WATCH
WITNESSED THE SECOND PLANE STRIKING THE TOWER FROM THE
ROOF HERE BECAUSE YOU CAN SEE RIGHT ACROSS THE RIVER SAW IT IN THE HOUSE WATCH ON TV THEY WERE SHOWING
THAT THAT HAD HAPPENED
WE GOT TICKET SHORTLY THEREAFTER AND
RESPONDED KN IF
WAS GETTING OFF FOR THE DAY ACTUALLY TH HIR MINIMUM MANNING WHAT
TECHNICALLY WAS GOING ON JUMPED ON THE RIG OFFICER TOLD ME WAS ON OVERTIME GOT ON THE RIG AND WE
THEY ACTUALLY

WALKER
WENT WE RESPONDED BASICALLY DOWN UNDER THE BQE AND WE CAME OUT IN FRONT OF 207 OVER THERE ON TILLARY STREET
EVERYTHING WAS WIDE OPEN THEY HAD SHUT OFF THE TRAFFIC ALREADY GUESS BECAUSE OF THE FIRST TOWER
BEING ON FIRE AT THAT POINT IT WAS LITTLE TOUGH GETTING THROUGH TRAFFIC THERE BUT AT THAT POINT WE
SHOT RIGHT OVER GUESS THATS THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE THERE THAT COMES INTO WHATEVER IT IS THAT COMES INTO FLATBUSH AVENUE WE SHOT RIGHT OVER THE BRIDGE AND ALL OF DOWNTOWN WAS SHUT DOWN SO WE HAD NO TRAFFIC AT
ALL
WE WOUND UP PARKING ON LIBERTY STREET JUST EAST OF CHURCH SO WE WERE ACTUALLY ON THE SOUTHEAST
CORNER THERE WHERE WE PARKED RIGHT OVER THERE THEN WE GRABBED ALL OUR GEAR AND WE PROCEEDED WEST DOWN
LIBERTY STREET PAST 10 10 AT THAT POINT WE GOT SOME FEEDBACK FROM SOME GUYS IN 10 10 DONT REALLY
RECALL THAT WHAT WAS SAID THERE BUT WE WENT INSIDE THE BUILDINGS ON LIBERTY STREET WE WALKED THROUGH THE LOBBY OF THOSE BUILDINGS IN ORDER TO YOU KNOW FOR OUR OWN SAFETY
WALK BY TH BRIDG WEST STREET AND THAT IS WHEN WE WENT ACROSS HEADED
NORTH INTO THE WE BASICALLY WENT INTO THE HOTEL WE

WALKER
STAGED IN THE HOTEL LOBBY THERE AND OUR BOSS WENT OFF TO FIND SOME SORT OF COMMAND POST OR TO FIND OUT WHO
WAS IN CHARGE IN THE LOBBY THERE THEY BROUGHT UP SOME WATER AND STUFF FOR US COUPLE OF CASES OF WATER
THEY WERE BRINGING UP
WE WERENT IN THERE TOO LONG WHEN OUR BOSS
CAME BACK AND TOLD US WE WERE GOING TO WALK UP TO THE 70TH FLOOR OF THE NORTH TOWER TO LOOSEN UP YOUR GEAR LIGHTEN UP YOUR COAT OPEN UP YOUR COATS AND TAKE OFF YOUR HOODS BECAUSE WE ARE WALKING UP AND ITS GOING TO TAKE OVER AN HOUR HOUR AND HALF TO QET UP THERE BY HIS ESTIMATE LIEUTENANT BROSNAN WAS THE LIEUTENANT
THAT DAY
SO GRABBED SOME WATER WE DID WHAT WE HAD
TO DO PICKED UP OUR GEAR AGAIN AND WE STARTED HEADING THROUGH THE LOBBY NORTH INTO THE NORTH TOWER WE
ENTERED INTO THE LOBBY OF THE NORTH TOWER AND WE BASICALLY TURNED TO THE RIGHT AND NOW WE WERE HEADED
EAST AND WE PASSED THROUGH ALL THE THERE WAS WHOLE
ROW OF REVOLVING DOORS THERE WHICH GUESS IS THE ONLY WAY IN AND OUT AT THAT POINT TO THAT PART OF THE
BUILDING
WE THEN PROCEEDED DONT KNOW HOW FAR THERE WAS MAYBE 25 30 YARDS AHEAD THERE WAS

WALKER
CORRIDOR THERE WHERE YOU COULD GO LEFT OR RIGHT WE WERE JUST BEFORE THAT WHEN LIEUTENANT BROSNAN THEN
STAGED US THERE AND HE WAS TRYING TO FIND STAIR WELL THINK AT THAT POINT HE STAGED US THERE HE SAID
WAIT HERE DONT GO ANYWHERE STAY TOGETHER DONT MOVE STAY RIGHT HERE
SO HE THEN AT THAT POINT THERE WERE LOT
OF PEDESTRIANS CIVILIANS LEAVING THE BUILDING PASSING RIGHT THROUGH WHERE WE WERE HE WALKED BACK TOWARD THE
TOWER AS FAR AS CAN RECALL ACROSS THE HALLWAY AND BACK TOWARDS THE LOBBY OF THE TOWER AND HE NO SOONER
DISAPPEARED INTO THE CROWD THAN THERE WAS BIG
RUMBLING NOISE EVERYTHING STARTED SHAKING AND THE WIND STARTED BLOWING
THE WIND WAS INCREDIBLE IT HAD TO BE DONT KNOW WOULD SAY LIKE AT LEAST 50 60 MILE AN HOUR WINDS COMING THROUGH THAT HALLWAY THROUGH THAT CORRIDOR EVERYBODY OF COURSE STARTS RUNNING CIVILIANS WERE RUNNING WE ARE RUNNING YOU ARE JUST TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM THIS TREMENDOUS NOISE AND WIND
AT THAT STILL CAST AND FR WHAT CAN RECALL WE MADE LEFT AND THERE WAS ALL
THESE SHOPS DOWN THERE WE RAN BY THESE SHOPS AND YOU

WALKER
KNOW PRETTY MUCH THE WIND JUST PICKED EVERYBODY UP AND JUST KNOCKED YOU RIGHT DOWN
REALLY
EVERYBODY WOUND UP ON THE FLOOR AND THINK
IT WAS BASICALLY BECAUSE OF THE WIND BECAUSE CAN REMEMBER WHOEVER WAS IN FRONT OF ME DONT KNOW WHICH
GUY WAS IN FRONT OF ME IT WAS ME MYSELF VINNIE PICCIANO JOE GALASSO JIMMY MURPHY ERIC BERNTSEN WE
WERE ALL TOGETHER AND ONE OF THOSE GUYS WAS IN FRONT OF ME AND HE FELL DOWN OTHER PEOPLE CAN REMEMBER WERE
FALLINQ DOWN
JUST SAID TO MYSELF YOU KNOW DONT WANT TO FALL DOWN LIKE FEET DONT FAIL ME NOW CAN
REMEMBER GOING TO JUMP OVER THAT GUY AND THAT WAS IT THE WIND JUST LAID ME DOWN DIDNT GET HURT THATS
WHAT STRUCK ME ITS NOT LIKE FELL WITH THUD LIKE TRIPPED OVER SOMETHING IT WAS LIKE THE WIND
WAS BLOWING SO HARD THAT IT JUST KIND OF PICKED ME UP AND LAID ME DOWN SOFTLY
REALLY
AS FAR AS CAN THINK IT OVER IN MY MIND YOU
KN
NEXT THING KNOW IM KIND OF ROLLING AROUND
ON THE FLOOR AND GETTING BLOWN DOWN THE HALLWAY THE

WALKER
WINDOWS ARE BREAKING THE LIGHTS ARE GOING LIGHTS WENT OUT PEOPLE ARE SCREAMING MEAN IT WAS
HORRIBLE
NOW WE ARE IN COMPLETE DARKNESS HAD RADIO BECAUSE HAD CONTROL HAD THE CONTROL
POSITION THAT DAY SO HAD THE RADIO HAD PRETTY
GOOD FLASHLIGHT WITH ME WE JUST STARTED CALLING OUT TO EACH OTHER YOU KNOW 212 212 WE KIND OF RALLIED THE FIVE OF US WE FOUND EACH OTHER WE WERENT FAR FROM EACH OTHER WE WERE ALL TOGETHER WE GOT TOQETHER AND WE MADE SURE WE WERE ALL OKAY WE HAD THE FIVE OF US AND THEN PEOPLE WERE MOANING AND ONE LADY STARTED
SCREAMING
THERE WERE OTHER EMERGENCY PERSONNEL DOWN
THERE DONT KNOW WHO THEY WERE OR WHAT UNITS THEY
WERE WITH OR WHAT THEY WERE PORT AUTHORITY OR FBI OR EMS DONT KNOW WHO THEY WERE BUT THERE WERE
FEW AT LEAST TWO OR THREE OTHER PEOPLE DOWN THERE AND
THINK ONE OF THOSE GUYS IT MUST HAVE BEEN GRABBED THIS LADY THAT WAS SCREAMING AND GOING HYSTERICAL AND
JUST REMEMBER HIM SCREAMING BACK AT HER TELLING HER TO SHUT UP HAV INT PANIC
WE HAD LOT OF PEOPLE DONT KNOW ITS HARD TO RECALL HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE THERE AND NOW OF

WALKER
COURSE ITS PITCH BLACK AND EVEN NOW PUT MY
FLASHLIGHT ON YOU COULDNT SEE ANYTHING BECAUSE OF THE DUST THE FLASHLIGHT WAS
USELESS
USELESS COULD SHINE IT DOWN ON THE FLOOR TO SEE MY FOOTING TO MAKE SURE THAT WASNT
GOING TO TRIP OVER ANYTHING OR IF WAS COMING ON SOME STEPS OR HOLE OR WHATEVER THATS WHY HAD THE
FLASHLIGHT DOWN AT THE FLOOR BASICALLY THAT WAS THE BEST COULD DO BECAUSE POINTING IT FORWARD YOU
COULDNT SEE ANYTHINQ BECAUSE OF THE DEBRIS THE DUST FLOATING AROUND
SO WE TOLD EVERYBODY TO GRAB ONTO SOMEBODY NEXT TO THEM HAD FOUR OR FIVE PEOPLE HANGING OFF OF
ME WE WERE ALL TOGETHER AT THIS POINT BASICALLY WE RALLIED ALL THE PEOPLE THAT WERE THERE THE OTHER
EMERGENCY WORKERS DONT KNOW WHO THEY WERE OR WHERE
THEY WERE BUT WE KIND OF SAID OKAY FIRE DEPARTMENT DONT WORRY WE WILL GET YOU OUT OF HERE NOT KNOWING OF COURSE WHAT HAD HAPPENED
THOUGHT MYSELF THAT THE LOBBY THEY WERE
TALKING AB TH LIK TH WERE GOING TO COME DOWN THE ELEVATORS WERENT
SECURED WE DID HEAR THAT OVER THE RADIO AS WE WERE
BASICALLY

WALKER
COMING UP ON THE TOWERS FROM THE DISPATCHER THINK GAVE THAT INFORMATION OUT OVER THE RADIO
SO THOUGHT THAT THE ELEVATORS IN THAT LOBBY OF THE NORTH TOWER HAD COME CRASHING DOWN BECAUSE YOU
JUST CANT IMAGINE THAT THESE BUILDINGS WERE GOING TO COME DOWN
NOT
AT THAT POINT THATS WHAT WAS GOING UNDER
THE IMPRESSION THAT THE LOBBY OF THE NORTH TOWER HAD COLLAPSED IN SOME WAY WHETHER IT WAS THE ELEVATORS OR
WHATEVER IT SEEMED TO ME LIKE IT WAS RIQHT BEHIND ME
AND OF COURSE THE OTHER TOWER IS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF
THE PLAZA SO ANYWAY WE GRAB ALL THESE PEOPLE AND
EVERYBODY IS HOLDING ON TO SOMEBODY AND WE JUST START
YOU DONT KNOW WHICH DIRECTION TO HEAD AND YOU LOST ALL SENSE OF WHERE YOU WERE OR WHERE YOU WERE HEADING
CAN REMEMBER WALKING INTO WALL AND COMING UP TO WALL AND SHINED MY FLASHLIGHT UP ON THE SIGN OF STORE AND SOME WOMAN THAT WAS STANDING NEXT TO ME WAS LIKE KNOW WHERE WE ARE KNOW THIS STORE
KN WH ARC HAV THIS WAY HAD
IDEA WHERE WE WERE SO WENT WITH THAT SAID OKAY LETS
WALKING
GO
ABSOLUTELY

WALKER
AS TURNED THERE WAS NOW WHOLE CROWD OF PEOPLE IN FRONT OF ME BECAUSE SHE SAID GO TO THE RIGHT BASICALLY AND HAD TO BREAK THROUGH THE CROWD HAD TO OKAY LET ME THROUGH AND HAD TO GET THROUGH
THIS CROWD OF PEOPLE BECAUSE HAD THE FLASHLIGHT YOU KNOW AND NOBODY ELSE HAD FLASHLIGHT SO
DONT KNOW AT THAT POINT IT WAS GOOD CROWD OF PEOPLE GOT TO THE FRONT OF THE CROWD AND WE JUST STARTED WALKING
THE OTHER MEMBERS WERE WITH YOU AT THAT TIME TOO FROM 212
YES WE ALL WERE TOGETHER AND SOMEHOW WE GOT SPLIT UP THATS ALL KNOW DONT KNOW HOW WE GOT SPLIT UP OR WHAT ALL REMEMBER IS THAT LADY SAYING KNOW WHERE WE ARE WE GOT TO GO THIS WAY AND WE ALL STARTED WALKING THAT WAY AND WOUND UP IN FRONT OF THIS CROWD OF PEOPLE
AS WE WALKED FURTHER THROUGH THE HALLWAY AND FROM LOOKING BACK AT MAPS AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT
WHERE WAS THINK WHAT KNOW WE DID WAS WE WERE HEADED EAST AND WE WENT OVER TO THE CHURCH STREET EXIT
THERE
TRAD TH WAS AN SCALAT NOW THERE IS ALL BIG GLASS ON THE STREET
10

WALKER
LEVEL THERE GOING FROM THE FLOOR TO THE CEILING SO AS WE ARE COMING DOWN THE HALLWAY EVEN THOUGH THERE IS
LOT OF DUST AND STUFF FLYING MEAN WHEN THEY SAY
THERE IS LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL KNOW WHAT THEY MEAN NOW BECAUSE NOW WE COULD START TO SEE THE LIGHT SO WE START HEADING TOWARDS THE LIGHT AND
THATS WHERE WE CAME TO THIS ESCALATOR AT THE BOTTOM OF WHERE NOW SEE THE THING WHAT FIGURED OUT ABOUT THE BUILDING AND ONE OF THE THINGS THATS WEIRD IS THAT ON WEST STREET YOU ARE AT STREET LEVEL AT CHURCH STREET YOU ARE ONE LEVEL BELOW QRADE
OF COURSE DIDNT REALIZE THATS WHAT WAS AT THE TIME BUT SO NOW WE ARE AT ONE LEVEL
HAPPENING
BELOW GRADE AND THERE IS AN ESCALATOR THERE AND NOW WE
LET ALL THE CIVILIANS THAT WERE WITH US THINK IT WAS ME AND JOE GALASSO AND VINNIE PICCIANO THAT WOUND
UP AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT ESCALATOR THERE WERE ONE OR TWO GUYS THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN COPS ONE GUY MAYBE
NOW WE LET ALL THESE CIVILIANS
COULD STILL PICTURE THEM WALKING UP THE
ESCALATOR STAIRS OF COURSE NOTHING WAS WORKING
ALL TH IS UT GLASS ALL TH
PLACE AND CAN REMEMBER LOOKING DOWN AND THIS ONE LADY ITS FUNNY THE THINGS WE REMEMBER REMEMBER
GO
11

WALKER
LOOKING DOWN AND WATCHING HER FEET AND SHE HAD NO SHOES
ON JUST HER STOCKINGS AND WALKING THROUGH THE GLASS TO GET OUT
IM SURE AS THINK BACK ON IT THAT SHE DIDNT EVEN KNOW THAT SHE WAS WALKING THROUGH GLASS
ALL THESE PEOPLE DONT KNOW IF IT WAS 50 HUNDRED OR 150 PEOPLE JUST KEPT UP THE ESCALATOR AND OUT TO
CHURCH STREET WHERE THEY HEADED PROBABLY TOWARDS VESEY STREET AT THAT POINT
NOW WE ARE STANDING THERE AND WE ARE WONDERINQ WHAT DO WE DO NOW WE WERE MISSINQ TWO QUYS
THAT WERE WITH US WHEN THE OFFICER STAGED US THERE WERE FIVE OF US NOW THERE WERE ONLY THREE OF US WE
ARE MISSING THOSE TWO GUYS OUR OFFICER NOW HAD GONE
OFF TO FIND THE STAIRWELL OR WHATEVER SO HE IS
FROM US THOSE ARE THE MAIN GUYS THAT WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT
SO WE WENT BACK IN AND IT GETS LITTLE FUZZY HERE BUT WE PROBABLY WENT DOWN THAT HALLWAY SO WE
PROBABLY HEADED BACK WEST DOWN THAT CORRIDOR AND WE DID SEARCH OF THE PATH TRAINS THAT WENT MYSELF AND
THINK JIMMY MURPHY AGAIN TALK AB IT
WHOLE BANK OF ITS GOT TO BE LIKE 12 ESCALATORS OR
WH GOT BACK HERE WE ACTUALLY WALKED DOWN THERE IS
12
MISSING

WALKER
SO THAT GO DOWN INTO THE PATH TRAIN THERE UNDER WORLD TRADE CENTER
ME AND MURPHY ACTUALLY WENT ALL THE WAY DOWN AND WE GOT TO THE BOTTOM OF THE STAIRS AND WE ARE
CALLING OUT AND WE ARE HEARING NOTHING AND NOTHING ON THE RADIO BECAUSE HAD RADIO TRIED TO CALL
PEOPLE WAS GETTING COUPLE OF LITTLE THINGS THAT HEARD THAT WERE ALL GARBLED
WHAT CHANNEL WERE YOU ON
THINK WAS ON CHANNEL IN THE
BUILDINQ GUYS THAT HAVE SPOKEN TO AFTERWARDS SAID THAT UNDER THE BEST OF CIRCUMSTANCES FROM THE LOBBY SOMETIMES YOU COULD TALK TO SOMEBODY ON THE 70TH FLOOR AND YOU COULDNT HEAR THE GUY ON THE SECOND FLOOR SO THEY SAID IT WAS ALWAYS TOUGH THERE WITH
COMMUNICATIONS
WAS HEARING NOTHING ON THE RADIO
GAVE
UP ON CALLING PEOPLE BECAUSE THERE WAS NO RESPONSE WE
WERE CALLING OUT IN THE HALLWAY WE GOT NO RESPONSES WE WENT DOWN INTO THE PATH TRAIN CALLING OUT ANYBODY
HERE ANYBODY NEED HELP NO RESPONSES DOWN IN THE PATH TRAIN JUST AT ACH TH AND LIK
YOU KNOW THIS IS NOT GOOD LETS GET OUT OF HERE THE OTHER GUYS WERE AT THE TOP OF THE STAIRS WAITING
13

FOR US
WALKER
NOW WE WALKED BACK UP TO THE TOP OF THE ESCALATORS THERE TO GO DOWN TO THE PATH TRAIN AND WE
WALKED BACK TOWARDS WHERE WE HAD BEEN INSIDE
FINALLY WE ARE CALLING OUT WE ARE CALLING OUT WE HEAR SOMEBODY CALLING US WE GO BACK DONT
KNOW WHICH DIRECTION THINK WE HEADED MORE TOWARDS THE SOUTH NOW THINK THERE IS LIKE TWO OTHER CORRIDORS THAT CROSS THE CORRIDOR THAT WE WERE WALKING IN FROM THE WEST TO THE EAST BUT STILL HAVENT SEEN
MAP OF DOWNSTAIRS THERE SO IM NOT SURE
ANYWAY WE HEAR THIS GUY CALLING US WE GO BACK TOWARDS HIM HE IS LIKE AN EMS GUY IM NOT SURE
EXACTLY WHO HE WAS OR WHY HE WAS DOWN THERE BUT HE HAD HELMET ON THINK HE WAS AN EMS GUY BIG GUY AND HE
HAS CIVILIAN UNDER PILE OF DEBRIS
THINK THE DEBRIS CAME FROM THE CEILING
TILES RIGHT ABOVE HIM SOME OF THE GUYS ARE SAYING
THEY THINK IT ACTUALLY CAME THAT HE CAME THROUGH THE FLOOR DONT THINK HE CAME THROUGH THE FLOOR BECAUSE
DONT THINK HE WOULD HAVE SURVIVED THINK HE WAS
REALLY
WH WAS PILED ONTO LIKE HANGING CEILING TILES AND THE GRID
JUST IN TH AND HIT WITH STUFF
HAPPENED TO BE THE CEILING CAME CRASHING DOWN AND HE
14

WALKER
THAT THEY HANG THAT ON WAS ON TOP OF HIM PLASTER AND LATH AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF
HE WAS UNDERNEATH THE PILE OF STUFF BUT IT WAS HEAVY BECAUSE THAT GUY COULDNT GET IT OFF OF HIM
SO NOW THERE IS THE FIVE OF US SOMEHOW AGAIN THIS FOUND OUT AFTERWARDS THE OTHER TWO GUYS HAD TAKEN
SOME OF THE PEOPLE AND THEY WENT OUT TO THE NORTH
THEY EXITED TO VESEY STREET THROUGH THE NORTH IS VESEY STREET THEY WENT OUT THAT WAY WITH SOME PEOPLE WHEN WE WENT TO CHURCH STREET THATS WHERE WE GOT SPLIT
UP BUT THEY CAME BACK IN TOO AND WE ALL WOUND UP TOGETHER WHEN WE FOUND THIS GUY WE KIND OF HEARD THEM CALLING US AND WE ALL KIND OF MET BACK PROBABLY THE SAME PLACE WHERE WE SPLIT UP AND WE ALL WALKED TOGETHER AND WE FOUND THIS GUY AND WE ALL NOW DUG HIM OUT AND GOT THE DEBRIS OFF HIM HE WAS PRETTY BANGED UP AND HE WAS PRETTY BIG BOY
THERE WAS LITTLE STORE OF COURSE THERE WERE ALL STORES THERE THE STORE ACROSS THE WAY
STARTED TO GO ON FIRE TWO OF OUR GUYS ACTUALLY
GRABBED LINE FROM ONE OF THE LINES THAT THE BUILDING HAS START MAYB TRYING PUT TH FIR UT BUT THAT WAS KIND OF WASTE OF TIME IT WASNT LIKE BIG FIRE JUST SOME OF THAT HANGING STUFF WAS STARTING TO
15

WALKER
BURN BUT IT WAS LIGHTING UP TBE AREA WHICH WAS KIND OF GOOD SO WE COULD SEE WHAT WE WERE DOING
WENT INTO THE STORE IT WAS LIKE LITTLE SHOE STORE OR SOMETHING DID SEARCH IN THERE ALL THE ALARMS WERE GOING OFF AND STUFF IT WAS PRETTY
OUT OF THE STORE AND EVERYBODY IS LIKE OH GREAT GREAT IDEA WE PUT THE GUY IN THE CHAIR AND WE START
CARRYING HIM OUT AGAIN IT WAS THE FIVE OF US MAYBE THIS EMS QUY AND THINK COP WAS HELPINQ US
WE PUT HIM ON THE CHAIR IT WAS LONG WAY THAT WE WERE IN AND HE WAS PRETTY BIG GUY WE SWITCHED OFF WE HAD LIKE FOUR OR FIVE GUYS CARRYING HIM WE STOPPED AND THE OTHER GUYS JUMPED ON AND THEY CARRIED HIM THE REST OF THE WAY THATS WHEN WE NOW WE GOT TO POINT OF LIKE KNOW WE GOT TO GO THIS WAY TOWARDS CHURCH STREET AND ONE OF MY OTHER GUYS MY FRIEND WAS LIKE WE GOT TO GO THIS WAY
IM LIKE WELL KNOW WE GOT AN EXIT THIS AND HE IS LIKE WELL KNOW WE GOT AN EXIT THIS WAY
WAS LIK LITS STAND AND TALK AB IT
GOT AN EXIT LETS GO WE WENT HIS WAY AND NOW WE WENT OUT TO THE NORTH WE WENT TO VESEY STREET WHICH AS IT
CHAIR BECAUSE WE DIDNT KNOW HOW WE
CRAZY GRABBED
WERE GOING TO GET THIS GUY OUT GRABBED THE CHAIR
16
WAY

WALKER
TURNS OUT WOUND UP BEING BETTER WAY TO GO BECAUSE THERE WAS ONLY COUPLE OF STEPS TO THE STREET LEVEL
WHEREAS ON THE OTHER SIDE IT WAS THAT ESCALATOR WE WERE ONE LEVEL BELOW GRADE SO WE ONLY HAD TO CARRY
THIS GUY OUT UP COUPLE OF STEPS AND IT WAS VERY GRADUAL INCLINE WE CARRIED HIM OUT
WE GO OUT THE DOOR OF WORLD TRADE CENTER WHICH WE ARE NOW JUST EAST OF WHERE WEST BROADWAY COMES
IN AND WE CAME RIGHT OUT OF THESE DOORWAYS RIGHT ACROSS FROM THE US POST OFFICE BUILDING IS WHERE WE CAME OUT
WE CAME OUT THE DOOR WHEN WALKED OUT THE DOOR LOOKED UP BECAUSE WHEN WE WERE GOING IN IT
WAS HORRIBLE SCENE IT WAS LIKE WAR ZONE ALREADY BEFORE THE FIRST COLLAPSE THERE WAS STUFF ALL OVER
THE FLOOR DEBRIS AND WHAT HAVE YOU BODY PARTS
WE KNEW THAT THERE WERE JUMPERS WE KNEW THAT
PEOPLE WERE JUMPING WE KNEW THAT STUFF WAS COMING DOWN NOW WALKING OUT THE BUILDING AGAIN WE ARE LITTLE CONCERNED LOOK UP AND COULD SEE THERE IS BIG OVERHANG THAT GOES ALL THE WAY AROUND THESE
TH AH
LOOKING TOWARDS CHURCH STREET AND WE GO TO THE LEFT
AS IM
WE ARE GOING NOW TOWARDS VESEY TOWARDS THE POST OFFICE
BUILDINGS
17

WALKER
BUILDING WE ARE GOING ACROSS THE STREET
WHAT DIDNT REALIZE WAS THAT OVERHANG GOES
ALL THE WAY AROUND THE BUILDING DIDNT REALIZE
WAS STILL UNDER THE OVERHANG BUT IN MY MIND SAID IF
HEAR ANYTHING COMING DOWN IM GOING BACK TOWARDS THAT
OVERHANG FOR PROTECTION NEXT THING YOU KNOW WE DIDNT WALK 25 FEET AND IT STARTS RUMBLING YOU KNOW
AGAIN YOU DONT EVEN IMAGINE THIS IS WHATS HAPPENING
THE OTHER BUILDING HAD ALREADY COMPLETELY COLLAPSED AND NOW THE BUILDINQ THAT YOU ARE STANDINQ
UNDER IS COMPLETELY COLLAPSING IT DIDNT EVEN OCCUR TO ME IM JUST THINKING THAT STUFF IS FALLING OFF THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING AND WANT TO GET UNDER COVER
SO WE GOT THE GUY ON THE CHAIR WE PUT HIM DOWN AND LUCKY FOR HIM GUESS HE WAS UNDER THE OVERHANG WE LEFT HIM KIND OF AT THE CORNER OF THE BUILDING WE RAN BACK IN HE WAS RIGHT AT THIS CORNER HERE THE NORTH CORNER WHERE THERE IS THE CUT OUT OF WORLD TRADE CENTER
WE RAN BACK TOWARDS THE DOORWAY THAT WE HAD UT AND TH WIND
JUST
IM SAYING IF IT WAS 50 60 MILES AN HOUR WHEN WE WERE INSIDE WHEN THE FIRST TOWER COLLAPSED NOW IT WAS LIKE
18

WALKER
HURRICANE WINDS ITS LIKE JET ENGINE AS IM TRYING TO GET IN THE DOORWAY ITS GETTING WORSE COULDNT
GET EVEN THROUGH THE DOORWAY THE WIND IS LIKE CRRRRRRR LIKE JET ENGINE COMING OUT OF THAT
DOORWAY
IT WAS INCREDIBLE
SO KIND OF GOT BLOWN LITTLE TO THE SIDE AND WOUND UP RIGHT IN THE CORNER OF THERE WAS THIS HUGE BEAM BEHIND GUESS IT WAS LIKE MARBLE FACIA AND CAN JUST REMEMBER GETTING DOWN ON MY KNEES AND COVERING UP WITH WHATEVER COULD DO IM HOLDING ON TO MY HELMET AND IM WATCHINQ THIS DEBRIS FLY OUT THIS DOOR AND MEAN EVERY BIT OF IT IS GOING STRAIGHT IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT IT WAS ROCKS OR DUST OR WHATEVER IT WAS IT WAS JUST GOING STRAIGHT BECAUSE OF THE FORCE OF THE WIND
WOUND UP HUDDLING IN THIS CORNER WHILE THIS BUILDING CAME DOWN JOE GALASSO KNOW FOLLOWED ME AND GUESS MURPHY WAS THERE SOMEWHERE TOO THAT THE THREE
OF US WENT BACK TOWARDS THE BUILDING AND THE OTHER TWO GUYS WENT ACROSS THE STREET THANK GOD THEY ARE OKAY
BUT NOW THEY WERE OUT THERE WHEN ALL THE DEBRIS WAS JUST SAT IN THAT SAID MY
PRAYERS THOUGHT WAS GOING TO DIE
JOE SAYS HE WAS HOLDING ON TO ME BUT HE LET
19

WALKER
GO OF MY COAT AND THE WIND CAUGHT HIM AND BLEW HIM DONT KNOW 40 50 FEET
REALLY
YES BECAUSE THE WIND MEAN WHEN SAY IT
WAS LIKE JET ENGINE COMING OUT THAT DOOR IT WAS LIKE
JET ENGINE IT BLEW HIM AND MURPHY MAYBE 30 40 50 FEET AWAY FROM ME WHERE KIND OF STAYED RIGHT IN THAT
CORNER RIGHT NEXT TO THE DOORWAY WHERE THE WIND WAS
COMING OUT
YOU KNOW THEN IT STOPPED MEAN DONT
KNOW HOW LONQ IT TOOK HEARD QUYS THAT HAVE SEEN TAPES OF IT COMING DOWN THAT SAID IT TOOK 30 SECONDS
DONT KNOW DOESNT SEEM TO ME THAT IT COULD BE THAT QUICK BUT THATS WHAT WAS TOLD IT DID ACTUALLY NOT TAKE THAT LONG THE NOISE STOPPED THE WIND STOPPED AND IT WAS PITCH BLACK DIDNT KNOW IF WAS BURIED OR WHAT IM THINKING IM BURIED BECAUSE CANT SEE ANYTHING
IM LOOKING UP AND THEN LITTLE BY LITTLE YOU
START TO HEAR PEOPLE CALLING OUT ANYBODY THERE ANYBODY HELP ME OR WHATEVER FOUND MURPHY AND GALASS TH THR US UP AND IT WAS LIKE LETS KEEP MOVING WE DIDNT KNOW WHAT HAD HAPPENED IT COULD COME DOWN AGAIN ITS NOT SAFE
20

WALKER
HERE WE HAVE TO CLEAR THE AREA WE LOST TRACK OF THE GUY IN THE CHAIR BECAUSE YOU COULDNT SEE ANYTHING WE COULDNT SEE ANYTHING
WE JUST START STUMBLING OVER STUFF AND TRYING TO MAKE OUR WAY OUT OF THERE CAN REMEMBER WALKING
PRETTY MUCH AGAIN ITS PARTIALLY WHAT REMEMBER
THAT DAY AND PARTIALLY WHAT PUT TOGETHER AFTERWARDS REMEMBER WALKING ACROSS THE STREET AND BANGING INTO
ANOTHER FIREMAN WHO WAS WITH RIG THAT WAS RIGHT THERE DONT KNOW WHAT COMPANY HE WAS BUT IT WAS RIQHT IN FRONT OF THE POST OFFICE
HE IS TELLING ME HELP ME FIND MY HELMET HELP ME FIND MY HELMET HE APPARENTLY DOVE UNDER THE RIG FOR SAFETY AND LOST HIS HELMET UNDER THERE IM LIKE HELP YOU FIND YOUR HELMET LETS GET OUT OF HERE FORGET YOUR HELMET SO HE IS LOOKING FOR HIS HELMET AND WE AGAIN CONTINUED ON
NOW AS HE IS ASKING ME TO HELP ME FIND HIS HELMET CAN SEE JOE AND MURPHY CONTINUING ON
WANTED TO STAY WITH THEM CATCH UP TO THEM WE HEADED UP WEST BROADWAY TOWARDS JUST GOING NORTH AND AT THAT MURPHY WAS ASKING WAS
STEPS AHEAD OF ME HE WAS ASKING SOMEBODY GUESS WHERE DO WE GO DONT KNOW WHAT HE WAS ASKING THE
21

WALKER
GUY BUT NOTICED THE GUY POINTING DOWN THE BLOCK MURPHY GOES DOWN THE BLOCK IT TURNS OUT IT
WAS DUANE STREET AND THATS WHERE ENGINE IS SO GUESS THE GUY WAS SAYING THERE IS FIRE HOUSE RIGHT HERE SO HEAD THAT WAY TOO THERE IS THE FIRE HOUSE WE WIND UP IN ENGINE WE START TAKING OUR
WE ARE COVERED IM SURE ITS THE SAME OLD STORY EVERYONE IS TELLING YOU COVERED FROM HEAD TO
TOE IN DUST GOT CRAP IN MY EYES MY EYES ARE KILLING ME CANT BREATHE THE STUFF THAT WAS
COMINQ DOWN WAS CHOKINQ AND PUKINQ BACK BY THE BUILDING
GOT OUR GEAR OFF JUMPED IN THE SLOP SINK
RINSING OFF CLEANING UP NOW WE ARE JUST LIKE WE ARE JUST STUNNED STILL DIDNT ACTUALLY KNOW THAT BOTH
BUILDINGS HAD COMPLETELY COLLAPSED GUYS ARE COMING IN AND THEY ARE GRABBING GEAR AND THEY ARE GRABBING MY GEAR AND THEY ARE GRABBING RADIOS SOME GUY TOOK MY RADIO GUY TOOK MY FLASHLIGHT SOMEBODY TOOK MY TURNOUT COAT GUYS WERE JUST COMING IN TO GET DOWN THERE
MAD PH CALL CALLID MY FAMILY AND LET THEM KNOW WAS OKAY THEN YOU JUST KIND OF
WANDERING AROUND AND THEY START TO SET THIS AREA UP AS
GEAR
22

WALKER
TRIAGE AREA AND DOCTORS WERE COMING IN AND NURSES ARE COMING IN STARTED CHOKING AGAIN THIS IS AFTER
HALF AN HOUR OR SO CHOKING AND IM CHOKING SO BAD
THAT CANT BREATHE FELT LIKE WAS GOING TO THROW UP AGAIN
GOT TO THE SINK AND IM RINSING MYSELF OUT AGAIN AND DRINKING LITTLE WATER THIS DOCTOR GRABS
ME AND HE IS LIKE HEY LET ME LOOK AT YOU GET OVER HERE SAID WHAT HE SAYS WERE YOU DOWN THERE
SAID YES WE WERE DOWN THERE WHEN IT HAPPENED HE SAYS YOU WERE DOWN THERE WHEN IT HAPPENED IM LIKE YES HE SAID LET ME LOOK AT YOU HE IS CHECKING MY EYES HE IS LOOKING IN MY THROAT HE SAYS YOU GOT TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL
FELT FINE IM SURE WAS IN SHOCK HE
SAYS YOU GOT TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL SAID DONT WANT TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL HE IS LIKE YOU GOT TO GO
TO THE HOSPITAL YOU COULD BE IN CARDIAC ARREST
COULD THIS YOU COULD THAT RESPIRATORY FAILURE STARTS HITTING ME WITH ALL THIS STUFF
NEXT THING YOU KNOW ITS ME OH FORGOT TH TH THR US SH UP
THAT AS
MURPHY AND GALASSO WE ARE LIKE WHERE IS EVERYBODY
ELSE WE THOUGHT THEY WERE ALL GONE BECAUSE WE THOUGHT
23
YOU

WALKER
WE WERE GONE ABOUT 15 MINUTES AFTER WE SHOWED UP BERNTSEN AND PICCIANO WALK IN THE SAME FIRE HOUSE
THEY CAME UP THINK THE OTHER STREET IS DONT KNOW WHATS THE OTHER STREET OVER THERE
MAYBE BROADWAY
THEY CAME UP CHURCH THEY ACTUALLY CAME UP
BECAUSE THEY RAN ACROSS THE STREET AND WENT EAST THEY GOT LITTLE BANGED UP BECAUSE THEY WERE OUT ON THE STREET BUT THEY SURVIVED TOO AND THEY CAME WALKINQ IN ABOUT 15 MINUTES AFTER US AND WE WERE ALL HAPPY TO SEE EACH OTHER OF COURSE LITTLE BIT LATER THIS DOCTOR GRABS ME AND HE PUTS ALL FIVE OF US ON THE AMBULANCE AND ANOTHER OFFICER LIEUTENANT FROM 24 TRUCK OR 24 ENGINE AND CHIEF KING ACTUALLY FROM THE SAFETY BATTALION AND THE OF US THEY SENT US TO HOSPITAL OVER IN FOREST HILLS THAT WAS BASICALLY IT WE WERE DONE
THEY THREW US ON THE AMBULANCE SENT US TO THE HOSPITAL WAS PROBABLY IN THE HOSPITAL BY 1130 QUARTER TO 12 THAT IS BASICALLY IT
24

WALKER
BUT IT WAS THE SITUATION
YOU LIVED THROUGH BOTH BUILDING COLLAPSES YES
THERE WAS THE FIRST OBSCURING OF EVERYTHING AND THEN THERE WAS THE SECOND OBSCURING AND THE
RUMBLING AND ALL THAT YOU LIVED THROUGH BOTH LUCKY GUYS
THE WHOLE COMPANY GOT OUT WE WERE IN THREE DIFFERENT PLACES WE HAD THE CHAUFFEUR WAS WITH THE RIG WE HAD THE OFFICER HAD GONE TO FIND STAIRWELL AND THE FIVE OF US SO THE OFFICER WOUND UP ACTUALLY HOOKING UP WITH SOME GUYS FROM 238 FOUND THIS OUT LATER ON
THAT HE WENT OUT TO THE WEST STREET SIDE SOMEHOW THEY HAD HARD TIME GETTING OUT BECAUSE IT
WAS THE COLLAPSE OF THE SOUTH TOWER THINK IM NOT EVEN SURE BUT IT OBSTRUCTED WEST STREET
YES VERY MUCH
WE WERE LUCKY BECAUSE WE WENT OUT TO CHURCH STR AND STR IT WAS ALL WID OF COURSE UNTIL THE SECOND TOWER CAME DOWN EVEN AT THAT
THINK IT MOSTLY WENT NORTHWEST AND WE WERE ON THE
25

WALKER
NORTHEAST IN WAY WE WERE NORTH IN THE MIDDLE BUT WE WERE WORLD TRADE CENTER IS ACTUALLY LITTLE
EAST OF THE TOWER WE WERE LUCKY IN THAT RESPECT
HE WOUND UP WITH ENGINE 238 AND COUPLE OF
GUYS FROM THAT COMPANY AND WE WOUND UP GOING UP TO ENGINE MEAN ONE COMPANY THREE DIFFERENT LOCATIONS AND WE ALL CAME HOME GUGLIELMO THE CHAUFFEUR LIEUTENANT BROSNAN AND THEN ME MURPHY PICCIANO BERNTSEN AND GALASSO ALL CAME HOME
DO YOU REMEMBER SEEING ANY COMMAND POSTS OR ANY CHIEFS
NO BECAUSE WE WENT IN THINK THE IM
NOT SURE WHERE THE COMMAND POST WAS BUT WHEN WE WERE GOING IN WE WERE UNDERNEATH THE PEDESTRIAN CROSS OVER BRIDGE SAW WHEN LOOKED TO MY LEFT COMING ACROSS WEST STREET WAS JUST 50 60 OF THE BROTHERS WERE
COMING THEY WERE USING THAT THE CROSS OVER FOR PROTECTION THEY WERE ALL CROSSING THE STREET UNDERNEATH THAT BRIDGE AND DONT KNOW WHERE THEY WERE COMING FROM OR WHO THEY WERE OR WHAT COMPANIES THEY WERE WITH THATS WHEN WE JUST WENT ACROSS AND WENT RIGHT INT TH BUILDING
DONT KNOW WHO LIEUTENANT BROSNAN SPOKE TO BUT HE SPOKE TO SOME CHIEF IN THE LOBBY OF THE VISTA
26

WALKER
HOTEL THINK THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME WE WERE NEAR
ANYTHING THAT WAS COMMAND POST OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT DONT REALLY KNOW THE LOCATIONS
THE ONLY COMPANY KNOW IS THAT LIEUTENANT BROSNAN WOUND UP HOOKING UP WITH 238 AND OTHER THAN
THAT WE WERE BASICALLY ON OUR OWN THE ENGINE THAT
WAS ACROSS THE STREET IN FRONT OF THE POST OFFICE
DONT EVEN KNOW WHO THAT WAS AGAIN IT WAS AFTER BOTH COLLAPSES EVERYTHING WAS COVERED DIDNT EVEN KNOW WHO IT WAS
WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT THE HANDY TALKY
LIKE BEFORE THE FIRST BUILDING COLLAPSED AND IT WAS
JUST FIRES AND THEY WERE TRYING TO GET ORGANIZED AND
EVERYTHING DO YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING OVER THE HANDY
TALKY LIKE ASSIGNING COMPANIES ANYTHING WAS IT CHAOTIC
YOU KNOW REALLY DONT REMEMBER HEARING MUCH RADIO TRANSMISSIONS WE WERE IN THE BUILDING
EVEN AFTER THE ONLY TIME STARTED TO TRY TO CONTACT
ANYONE OR WHATEVER IT WAS AFTER THE FIRST COLLAPSE AT THAT POINT WE WERE IN THE BASEMENT COULD HEAR
GARBLID TRANSMISSI CALLID UT NGIN 212 MAYDAY THINK GAVE MAYDAY IM SURE GAVE
MAYDAY
27

WALKER
GOT NO RESPONSE BUT COULD HEAR ANOTHER TWO GUYS TRYING TO TALK TO EACH OTHER DONT KNOW
WHO THEY WERE OR WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO SAY
DID YOU EVER GET AN ORDER OF SOMEBODY
MENTIONED THINK THE OFFICER SAID AT SOME POINT HE WAS TOLD TO SWITCH TO CHANNEL BECAUSE THAT WAS GOING
TO BE THE CHANNEL IN NUMBER WORLD TRADE CENTER NO
BASICALLY YOU STAYED ON CHANNEL
YES WAS ON CHANNEL NEVER CHANGED THE
CHANNEL AND REALLY DIDNT HEAR MUCH RADIO TRANSMISSION
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN LUCKY TO BE ALIVE WORD OKAY WHERE IS MY LITTLE SPEECH HAVE TO MAKE THANK FIREMAN WALKER FOR THIS INTERVIEW THE INTERVIEW NOW CONCLUDES AT 2001 HOURS
ELSE
ANYTHING
NO IM JUST LUCKY TO BE ALIVE
28
File No. 9110342
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER JAMES IPPOLITO
   Interview Date:  December 13, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  Today's date is
     December 13, 2001.  The time is 1530 hours.
          This is Battalion Chief Ronald Kemly of the
     Fire Department of the City of New York.  I'm
     conducting an interview with the following
     individual:  Firefighter James Ippolito of Engine
     Company 28 of the Fire Department of the City of
     New York.
          The interview is taking place at the quarters
     of Engine 28 regarding the events of September 11,
     2001.
     Q.   Firefighter Ippolito, could you please tell
me what happened to you on September 11?
     A.   We were sitting at the house watch, and we
heard an explosion, and some of the senior guys
immediately started to tell us to get on the rig,
because they knew we were going to go somewhere.  We
get on the rig, and then I think it went to second
alarm immediately.  We got the ticket.  We were out the
door immediately.
          We started to head down the FDR where we
could see the north tower, I believe, was the first one
hit, was burning.  A lot of black smoke and debris all
around the building.  As we approached, came out from
2
Ippolito
where the Battery Tunnel exit is.  I guess that's by
the south tower.  We passed going north on West Street,
coming right up.
          The rig was swerving, and there were bodies
all over the street.  There was paper and everything in
the air.  We pulled up in front of the north tower, on
West Street.  There was a pedestrian walkway right near
us, so we ran along the wall of the walkway to get
towards the building, because people and debris were
coming out of the buildings, and people were inside the
lobby yelling to us to look up before we came in.
          As we entered the lobby, we -- there was a
chief there.  I don't remember where he was from.  He
assigned us to team up with 4 engine, and we were to
start ascending the stairs, because there was no
elevator service, obviously.
          So we teamed up with 4 engine.  We proceeded
to the B staircase, where there were a lot of civilians
still coming down, but we had to walk single file up
the stairs.  We had roll-ups and spare cylinders, and
we started making our way up.
          If I can interject, before we entered the
second -- before we entered the tower, I -- me and Mike
Kehoe, another guy who was working in the company with
3
Ippolito
me, we heard a screeching sound, sounded maybe like a
train derailing or something, and what they're telling
us now is -- the time frame we saw in the paper, we
think that was the second plane hitting.  That was once
we were entering the building.
          So we started heading up.  I guess we got up
to the 30th Floor, and we took a break.  We were taking
intermediate breaks on certain floors, and we got to
30, and the guys were really fatigued, so we sat down.
4 engine was there.  I remember seeing a guy from 13
truck there.  Let me see.  I'm trying to remember other
companies that were there.  I believe 9 truck.
          We were taking a break.  There were still
civilians coming down.  Let me just rewind again.  We
were, I think, on 20 -- maybe in the teens somewhere,
maybe 17th Floor, when we making our way up slowly, and
I believe it was a guy from 13 truck had come across.
So we stopped, and a guy on, I think it was 13 truck,
told us to come in the C staircase, because there were
less civilians, and we would make better progress
there.
          We headed across to the C staircase.  It was
the same problem.  You know, a lot of people still
coming down.  We couldn't get up any faster, so we went
4
Ippolito
back to the B staircase, and we were taking a break on
30, and that's when we heard a rumble, outside
explosion, and I think that was the other building
coming down, but we were getting reports on the radio
that there was another incoming plane, so guys weren't
sure.  At first we thought it was the plane hitting,
but we at this point -- we knew the plane was already
in the building, and we heard rumbling.
          The building started to shake.  We all ran
into the stairway, into the B staircase again, and the
building started to shake and lights went out.  Just
got this tremendous rush of air coming up through a
staircase.  Everybody was just holding onto each
other.  Then we started to make sure -- you know, we
didn't know what happened.  We were -- everybody was
questioning each other, what the hell was that.  We
thought it was another plane.
          So at this point, our chief comes down.  He
was -- he was on that show, that 6 truck.  He was with
them, the 6 truck.  That chief came down from floors
above us.  I'm not sure what his name was.  He had come
down, and he ordered us out, so at that point we
started making our way down.  I guess we were starting
to spread out, I guess, a little bit on the stairs
5
Ippolito
coming down.  I guess we were on 17.  We took another
stop.  Lieutenant Becker wanted to make sure we were
all together, and then we went down again.  We kept
coming down, got down to -- I guess we were about the
8th Floor when we saw 6 truck, and on our way down --
excuse me, before we saw 6 truck, we saw -- I saw at
least two members from Squad 18 going up the stairs
where I informed them that the chief told us everybody
out.  The chief gave us an order to all get out, and
they passed me by.  They kept going up.
          So at this point, we were heading down
again.  We get to 6 truck.  They are helping a woman
down the stairs.  We tried to help them, and Billy
Butler from 6 truck told us to keep going.  He said
they got it under control, and they would get her out.
          So we get down to the lobby where we find 18
truck, and Hughy Mettham, he -- we asked him where the
rest of their guy was -- where the rest of 18 truck
was, and he said they're all together.  They are in the
lobby, and they're getting out.
          At this point, we made the decision to leave
the building.  We waited for 4 engine to come down.  We
went back to the entrance where we came in closest to
West Street, closer to the Vesey Street corner, and we
6
Ippolito
stayed by the doors.  The debris was all over the 1st
Floor, and there was a lot of confusion.
          I saw Von Essen there, and I saw Ganci
there.  We passed them, went to that doorway, and we
waited for 4 engine to come over, where I believe it
was a lieutenant working with them, he wanted his guys
to stop.  I guess we wanted to check in with the chief
or something before they left the building.
          We were all ready to go, and we made sure
there were people outside by that walkway where we came
in.  They were telling us to look up before we run.  I
think that was 18 truck.  They had already exited, and
they were telling us look up before we run.  That's
what we did.  We came outside.  We ran to that wall by
the walkway.  There were still people coming out of the
building, jumpers.
          So we ran to the wall.  We walked alongside,
as close to the wall as we could.  We got underneath
the pedestrian walkway where 18 truck was.  They were
parked right there underneath the walkway, and we
stopped, made sure everybody who went in with us came
out, all our members of the engine came out with us,
and we just started to walk.
          I saw a whole bunch of members, right -- I
7
Ippolito
think it was the Vesey Street, corner of West and
Vesey.  We started to walk towards them, and there were
all rigs and stuff outside, and that's where we were
walking towards.  Looked like some kind of maybe a
command post or something was there.  Started to walk
towards it, and that's when the building came down.  I
heard an explosion and turned around and the building
was coming down.
          At that point, we dropped everything we had,
at least I did.  We started to run north on West
Street.  At that point, we were overcome with the cloud
and it looked like -- felt a lot of wind again, got
knocked down.  I crawled.  I think I fell under a van
or something, and that dust started burying me in
there.  I started crawling out from there.  I couldn't
see anything.  I pulled my hood over my mouth.
          As I got on my feet, I felt another guy run
by me, so I reached out and grabbed ahold of his
cylinder.  I asked him for a couple of hits from the
cylinder, because I was choking.  He gave me a couple
of hits, and then a whole crowd of people ran us over.
I lost him.
          I found my way onto the island in the middle
of West Street, the grassy island, and I somehow -- I
8
Ippolito
don't know where I was at that point.  I got onto that
island.  I started crawling, and by the time I got out
of the smoke, I was on Chambers Street, and then
that's -- I came out, and I couldn't find anybody.
          After a couple of minutes, I ran into 228
engine.  That's where I rotated to on my second stop.
So I knew those guys and I said -- I figured I might as
well stay with a boss, any boss.  So I stayed with them
and finally I saw Kevin Murray, who was assigned to 11
truck, but he was detailed to 18 truck that day, saw
him and Hughy Mettham come out of the smoke.  I helped
them, and I brought a big jug of water over there to
help them clean up, get the stuff out of their eyes and
mouth.
          At that point, I went with them back towards
the site, because they were looking for their guys.  I
was looking for my guys, and I was with Hughy.  I
figured I was with a senior man, that's good, so I
stayed with him.  I started making my way back towards
the site.  I ran into Lieutenant Rallis from 11 truck.
He came in on the recall.  I stayed with them for the
rest of the afternoon.
          They assigned us to go searching buildings in
the financial center.  So we went there and were doing
9
Ippolito
searches.  The building was empty at that point.  It
was pretty much destroyed.  I stayed there -- geez, I
don't even know what time.  I must have left around
four o'clock or something.
          We started heading back up West Street, and
that's where I ran into the rest of the guys,
Lieutenant Becker that I was with, Roy Chelsen, Mike
Kehoe and Frank Campagna.
          At that point, we went back to the firehouse,
and the rest I watched on TV.  As soon as we got to the
firehouse, the 7 World Trade Center was falling down,
so it must have been close to that time in the
afternoon.
     Q.   If you can recall anything else prior to, I
have a few questions, if you don't mind.
          When you said you were on West Street, and
you reported in, you reported in from the south and
went north?
     A.   The rig, we drove.  Yeah, I guess the
entrance from the battery tunnel is south, and you have
to drive past the south tower to get to the north
tower.
     Q.   Right.  Did you see any other apparatus?
     A.   Trying to remember.  I think I saw 15 truck
10
Ippolito
in front of the south -- in front of the north tower.
     Q.   Right.  Any others?  I'm just trying to -- if
you can remember them, fine.
     A.   Right.  I think I saw -- remember seeing 15
and 8 truck, and that was really about it.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   We got there pretty fast.  I guess the fire
was on the outside of the building, went to second
alarm immediately, and we must have been among the
first arriving units, I gather.
     Q.   That's fine.
          The guy from ladder 13, as far as you could
tell, he was by himself or was the rest of his company
making --
     A.   There were other guys with him.  I'm just not
sure if he was detailed out to another company or
whether it was his company.
     Q.   And Ladder 9 was pretty much their whole
company?
A. Yeah.
     Q.   That B.C.'s name that you said his name is
Picciotto, I believe.
     A.   Right, that's him.
     Q.   That's the guy that was with 6 truck in the
11
Ippolito
same staircase?
     A.   He was in the same staircase.  He was above
us.  I don't know.
     Q.   He's the one that told you to get out?
     A.   Right, he was coming down from the floors
above us.
     Q.   You saw Engine 228 after the collapses.  Were
they responding or leaving?
     A.   I think they were just responding.
     Q.   So they were coming towards you?
     A.   They were getting off their apparatus
already.  They were coming down the block.
     Q.   Coming south and you were heading north?
     A.   Right, on Chambers Street.  Well, on West
Street, but it was the Chambers Street intersection
when I saw them.
     Q.   Right.  All right.  You said when you went
back with the lieutenant from the truck, they assigned
us to go into 7.  Who was they?  A couple of chiefs?
     A.   No, they didn't assign us to go into 7 World
Trade.
     Q.   You said they assigned -- you hooked up with
the lieutenant from the 11 --
     A.   11, and to one of the financial center
12
Ippolito
buildings.
     Q.   Who is they?  Was it a chief or --
     A.   It must have been a chief.  He told us to
stay and this corner, and he went to -- I guess it was
a bunch of chiefs there together.
     Q.   Okay.  So it could have been the deputy, it
could have been --
     A.   Right.  I'm not sure who told him, but then
he came back and said they told us to go down there, so
we went.
     Q.   Okay.  That's very nice of you to give us
this interview.  Thank you very much.
A. Thank you.
     Q.   Do you have anything else to add, let me
know?
     A.   No.
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  Thank you.
13
File No. 9110343
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER TERENCE RIVERA
   Interview Date:  December 13, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
T. RIVERA
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  December 13, 2001.
     Time is 1630 hours.  This is Battalion Chief
     Ronald Kemly of the Fire Department of the City of
     New York.  I'm conducting an interview with the
     following individual.  Firefighter 6th grade,
     Terence Rivera, assigned to Engine Company 10 of
     the Fire Department of the City of New York.  The
     interview is taking place at the quarters of
     Engine Company 4, temporary housing of Engine 10
     regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Firefighter Rivera, please tell me what
happened on September 11 that you were involved in.
     A.   I was standing outside the quarters about to
go home when the first plane hit.  I heard a loud noise
and then all of a sudden an explosion, looked up.  I
couldn't even tell really which tower was hit.  There
was debris flying.  There was a lot of smoke and fire.
I ran back inside, let everybody know we knew there was
an explosion, grabbed my gear.  I went as the extra man
on the truck, on Ladder 10, right on the back step,
because they already had their morning crew.  Everybody
was full.
          We pulled out of quarters, we made a left and
went towards West Street.  We stopped on Liberty Street
T. RIVERA
3
at first to see if we could see which tower exactly was
hit.  That's when we determined it was the northern
most tower.  We went around the corner on West Street
and the Ladder pulled right up in front of tower -- the
north tower.  The engine took the hydrant on the middle
of West Street.
          As I got off the back -- the back step, there
were a few individuals that were civilians that were
outside that were burnt.  There was a -- he wasn't a
regular security guard.  He had a weapon on him.  I
don't know if he was FBI or Secret Service and he was
trying to put the pants out on one individual that was
conscious.  His pants were still smoldering.  I took
the can, fire extinguisher off the truck and then
sprayed down the pants on the person that was still
conscious.
          At that time, I had asked him where did this
individual come from.  He told me when the plane had
hit, a fire ball had shot down the elevator shaft and
had blown people out of the lobby.
          I proceeded to render care.  I went to get
oxygen and a stretcher for the person that was on the
street while the rest of the companies went inside the
building into the lobby.  As I got the oxygen and the
T. RIVERA
4
stretcher, I was just by myself and Engine 55 pulled
up, which then I flagged the chauffeur from 55 engine
to give me a hand to put the victim on a stretcher.
          We did that.  Then we stopped the first
ambulance that was shooting down West Street coming
from -- they were coming up towards South Street ferry
side going up north.  Then I went -- proceeded back in
the building, I grabbed some tools.  I went back
inside, couldn't find a mask or a radio since I was the
extra man and I went back inside.  I was heading
towards the east staircase, which is where I figured
Ladder 10 would be and I saw the chauffeur from Ladder
10 was telling me to go back outside and don't come
back in unless you have a mask.
          So I went back outside.  I spoke with the
Engine 55 chauffeur to ask him do you have an extra
mask.  He said no, but he needed help hooking up to the
stand pipe.  So it was me, him and another individual
that I don't know who it was.  It was three of us,
because there was a lot of debris falling down and by
that time already there was people jumping.  So we had
one person looking up and two helping hook up to the
stand pipe.  Trying to do that.
          Sometime while we were doing that, that same
T. RIVERA
5
individual that was -- when we first got there, that
was trying to put the pants out, he came over and he is
saying to us that it's a terrorist attack.  You guys
are too close.  It's a terrorist attack.  So once we
got hooked up, I kept that in the back of my mind.  Get
on trying to get water going.
          I'm pulling the supply line, trying to figure
out where we are going to hook up to, and 55 Engine
showed up.  You couldn't really tell where there was a
hydrant.  I forgot, 10 Engine had hooked up to a
hydrant, so the chauffeur of 10 Engine saw me pulling
supply line that we relayed from 10.
          At some point close to that, they were saying
they had too much pressure, so I don't know if they
were getting water or they were doing some type of --
55 Engine chauffeur told Engine 10 that he was getting
too much pressure.  Then I went -- that same
individual, the security or -- he told me to go over to
the command post and let them know it's a terrorist
attack.  There are more planes in the air.
          So I went across the street where they were
starting to set up.  I told them.  They said we know.
Just stage down by the Financial Center, that driveway
down there, that's where everyone was staging.  So I
T. RIVERA
6
went to go back to go find 10 Engine chauffeur to tell
him let's go down here.  This is where they are
staging, and he didn't want to leave the rig.  He said,
I got to stay by the rig.  Just get me some water.  So
I got him some water and sometime when I was getting
the -- put in the back or getting out, that's when the
second plane hit.  I went inside the rig to escape the
debris falling down on us for a few moments.
          I came back outside the rig and I was looking
for 10 chauffeur.  I couldn't find him.  I figured it's
going to be an extended operation so I didn't want to
go back down where they were telling to us stage.  I
said you know, just ferry, until I find a mask I'm
going to bring spare cylinders inside and try to bring
spare cylinders up and down the staircase.  So I could
do something else.
          I grabbed two cylinders, went back inside the
building and was trying to find anybody from 10 or
anybody that I could hook up with, anyone who might
have an extra mask.  As I went back inside, that's when
they were telling us evacuate, the fire command was
saying get out of here, so on and so forth.
          As I was coming outside, I see a lot of
people running towards the Marriott Hotel, I see people
T. RIVERA
7
running -- everyone was just running.  And I hear shh.
It sounded like someone was turning on a hydrant and I
look up and the first tower was coming down.  I
proceeded to run up north and I run towards the
overpass that connects World Financial Center where
they have -- where the high rise rig is at and also
-- I think it was Rescue 1 or Rescue 5's vehicles
underneath it.
          As I run towards it, I know that I'm not
going to escape the -- escape it, so I dive under -- I
don't know even know which rig it was.  I dive under a
rig.  At the same time it felt like an explosion.  I
got bounced around underneath the rig.  I just kept on
crawling, trying to get to the other side.  I was
thinking that the rig was going to collapse.  I got
caught up or temporarily pinned.  I just kept crawling
until I felt like when I was near the end or nearby the
bumper, so I could roll out, in case the rig was going
to collapse.
          I waited a few moments until I felt like all
the heavy debris was over, all of the stuff, debris was
landed or until everything went quiet.  All I could
hear was pass alarms and I started pushing debris out
from under the rig.  I couldn't breathe because I had
T. RIVERA
8
no mask and I had no radio.  I just grabbed my T-shirt,
put it over my face and I started crawling in the
direction that I last remember going up north, trying
to get out of the debris.  I'm crawling over.  I feel
the grass.  I have an idea where I'm at.  I am going up
the incline and I crawl towards the World Financial
Center.  I break the glass.  Eventually I hit -- the
glass is still intact, so I break the glass to go
inside the Financial Center.
          Then EMS, which is staged on Vesey, they see
me when I come in and I'm pretty much out of it, out of
breath and almost passed out.  I just collapsed when I
get inside.  They come inside and drag me out.  Another
Firefighter came in right behind me.
          I was in the back of the ambulance for about
maybe 5 or 10 minutes, trying to get air.  I didn't
want to go to the hospital because I knew I wasn't
severely injured.  I had numbness in my right arm, but
I knew I was okay and I was going to hook up with two
other firefighters.  We were going to basically look
for people.
          They come running around the corner about 5
minutes after that.  The other one is coming down.  So
I jump back out the ambulance in my T-shirt and
T. RIVERA
9
underwear, run up towards the water.  It's getting
better, that debris field and that's when I met members
-- I saw two members from Engine 10 that were by the
railing about to jump in the water.  We all were trying
to get accountability of who was where and what was
going on.
          We started walking towards -- I went back to
get my bunker gear.  We started walking towards the
water, towards the launches where one of our members
from Ladder 10 was having chest pain and bring him over
-- make sure he goes on the ferry.  They were ferrying
people to Jersey.  Not too long after that they were
telling us to run again.  There is a gas that they
can't control, so we run past Stuyvesant High School
and then eventually when they set up the next command
post, which was in that area.  That was it.
     Q.   Okay, I have some questions.  When you first
responded, do you know who the truck officer was?
     A.   Lieutenant Harrell, he was the company
officer.
     Q.   He is okay?
     A.   No.  Dead, both officers.
     Q.   Yes, I know, Lieutenant Atlas.  You said
Engine 55 was parked and you relayed from 10.  10
T. RIVERA
10
parked in front of the north tower?  Did 55 stop before
or after?
     A.   55 was pretty close on the overpass between
the Financial Center, like right by the curb.
     Q.   They were past 10?
     A.   Right, they were past 10.  They were north of
10.
     Q.   The staging area across the street, was that
across the street or is that in the garage of the
tower?
     A.   It was across the street when the World
Financial Center started.  It's where the Winter Garden
is.  The glass is right down there.  There was a --
     Q.   Who was at the command center?
     A.   I saw Chief Ganci one time when I went over
there.  They had a lot of companies coming from
Brooklyn.
     Q.   Other companies.  Of the other Chiefs you
don't recognize?
     A.   No, I don't remember any of them.
     Q.   So the World Financial Center overpass was
the north overpass from the north tower to just north
of the Winter Garden.
     A.   Between both, right.
T. RIVERA
11
     Q.   When you met the guys from Engine 10 that
were going to jump in the water, who were they?
     A.   There was Mark Dulski and John Schroeder.
     Q.   And the guy from 10 with chest pains?
     A.   Serge Pilipczuk.
     Q.   -- Pilipczuk?
     A.   Yes.  He went to Jersey, from Ladder 10.
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  If there is nothing
     else you would like to add, this concludes the
     interview, thank you.

FILE NO 9110344
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER KEVIN MCCABE
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 13 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

MCCABE
BATTALION CHIEF BURNS TODAYS DATE IS DECEMBER 13 2001 THE TIME IS 348 PM IM
BATTALION CHIEF ROBERT BURNS SAFETY BATTALION
NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT
IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH
KEVIN MCCABE LADDER 122
THIS IS IN REGARDS TO THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER
11 2001 IF YOU WOULD KEVIN IN YOUR OWN WORDS JUST TELL US WHAT HAPPENED ON THAT DATE
WAS COMING TO WORK THAT MORNING SOON AFTER WE HEARD EITHER SECOND OR THIRD ALARM
TRANSMITTED IN THE BOROUGH OF MANHATTAN SOMEBODY SAID THE TRADE CENTER WAS HIT BY PLANE AT THE TIME THAT
DIDNT MAKE SENSE TO ME IM THINKING WHAT DO YOU MEAN
IM THINKING SMALL COMMUTER THAT NATURE
SEEING IT ON TV SEEING THE SMOKE ISSUE FROM WHAT
TURNED OUT TO BE THE NORTH TOWER THINKING TO MYSELF
AND THE GUYS WE ARE GOING TO BE GOING TO THAT FEW OF THE GUYS WE WENT UP TO THE ROOF OF THE BUILDING WHERE WE HAVE AN UNOBSTRUCTED VIEW OF THE CITY IT WAS
CRYSTAL CLEAR DAY THERE WAS THINKING OH MY GOD WE ARE GOING TO GO TO THAT
GOT HIT BY PLANE
PLANE CR
SC
REMEMBER GOING UP TO THE HOUSE WATCH

MCCABE
CAME DOWNSTAIRS HAD ALREADY TAKEN MY GEAR OUT BUT NOW IT WAS QUESTION OF ARE WE GOING TO GET TICKET FOR THAT AND SURE ENOUGH ABOUT THINK IT WAS 854 WE GOT TICKET THAT WE WERE GOING TO RESPOND IN TO THE BROOKLYN SIDE OF THE BATTERY TUNNEL SOME STREET THERE DONT KNOW THE NAME OF IT
REMEMBER GETTING ON THE RIG GOT EVERYBODY
TOGETHER WE TOOK OFF WAS DRIVING THAT DAY
REMEMBER MAKING THE TURN OFF 7TH AVENUE ON TO 9TH
STREET 132 WAS COMING DOWN 9TH STREET AND WE MET THEM AT THE CORNER AND THEY FOLLOWED US DOWN TO THE INITIAL STAGING AREA WHICH WAS RIGHT ON THE BROOKLYN SIDE OF THE TUNNEL
REMEMBER PULLING UP THERE BY THE TUNNEL AND SEEING BUNCH OF UNITS OFF TO THE SIDE WE STOPPED
TH RIG 1TH WAS TH JUST FRC REMEMBERING THE TICKET THERE WAS PROBABLY LIKE 10 COMPANIES THERE LOT OF TRAFFIC THE GUYS GOT OFF
THE RIG SO THEY COULD GO WALK TO THE SIDE RAILS SO THEY COULD STILL SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON BEING ON THE RIG DIDNT HAVE ANY TV SCREEN SO LOT OF THE STUFF THAT EXPERIENCED EARLY ON THAT DAY DIDNT MAKE SENSE
BECAUSE THINK REMEMBER HEARING SOMEBODY SAY SOON AFTER THAT THE OTHER BUILDING GOT HIT

MCCABE
AROUND THAT TIME THE TELEPRINTER ON THE RIG THE MDT WE GOT ANOTHER TICKET THAT TOLD US TO RESPOND INTO THE TRADE CENTER REMEMBER DRIVING THROUGH THE TUNNEL BOTH TUNNELS HAD BEEN SHUT DOWN THEY WERE JUST OPENING UP TRAFFIC SO ALL THE APPARATUS COULD GET THROUGH
WE ENDED UP GOING THROUGH THE LEFT TUBE THE LEFT LANE WHICH WAS BROOKLYN BOUND BUT THEY HAD STOPPED ALL THE TRAFFIC WE WERE GOING THROUGH THE TUNNEL THERE WAS AT LEAST AN ENGINE COMPANY IN FRONT OF US AND AN ENGINE COMPANY BEHIND US BUT COULDNT SEE ANYTHING MORE
AS WE WERE GOING THROUGH THE TUNNEL
REMEMBER HEARING
BRUNTON SAYING
KNEW THE VOICE CAPTAIN VINNIE
HE WAS TRYING TO CALL SOMEBODY SAYING THAT TH IS BC IN TH
THEY AR GETTING
BUILDING WHICH AGAIN DIDNT MAKE TOTAL SENSE TO ME
BECAUSE YOU GOT SOME INFORMATION FROM PEOPLE OR YOU JUST HEARD LIKE THE OTHER BUILDING GOT HIT WHAT DO
YOU MEAN THE BUILDING GOT HIT IM THINKING THIS WHOLE TIME THAT IT WAS AN ACCIDENT SO FAR IT WAS AN
ACCIDENT BUILDINGS GOT HIT
REMEMBER GOING THROUGH THE TUNNEL OUR
PROCESSION THE LANE THAT WE WENT THROUGH CAME TO WHAT

MCCABE
SEEMED TO BE AT LEAST SOLID TO 10 MINUTE STOP WE DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON AS IT TURNED OUT CAR THAT WAS BROOKLYN BOUND HAD GOTTEN TWO FLAT TIRES SO THEY HAD TO MOVE SOME CARS OUT OF MANHATTAN BOUND
TRAFFIC IN THAT TUBE JUST SO WE COULD GET AROUND THEM
REMEMBER DRIVING PAST AND LOOKING DOWN AND SEEING THE GUYS CAR HAD TWO FLAT TIRES ON THE DRIVERS SIDE WHICH
WOULD IMAGINE WHOEVER WENT THROUGH THE OTHER TUNNEL
THEY ACTUALLY GOT THROUGH THE TUNNEL LITTLE FASTER ANYWAY WE COME OUT OF THE TUNNEL
REMEMBER AS WE GOT UP ON WEST STREET AND WE ARE HEADING NORTH ON WEST STREET IM LOOKING AHEAD REMEMBER
KIND OF LEANING FORWARD AND LOOKING UP AND SEEING THE SMOKE IN THE BUILDINGS REMEMBER SEEING WHAT TO ME
LOOKED LIKE ROAD KILL IN THE STREET IM THINKING WHAT TH HELL IS THAT RN TH NC REALLY KNC WHAT IT WAS YOU KNOW DRIVING AROUND THERE WAS SOME DEBRIS IN
THE STREET THERE WERE PEOPLE DIRECTING TRAFFIC REMEMBER AT ONE POINT SEEING WHAT LOOKED
LIKE PIECE OF AN AIRPLANE NOW AT THE TIME WHEN
SAW IT IM THINKING OH THATS PART OF THE AIRPLANE BUT IM STILL THINKING MUCH SMALLER PLANE ALSO SEE SOME OF THIS WHAT WAS THINKING AT THE TIME LOOKED LIKE ROAD KILL BUT REMEMBER ONE TIME SLOWING

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DOWN AND LEANING UP ON THE STEERING WHEEL TO LOOK DOWN AND IT WAS AN INTESTINE CLEARLY THATS DEFINITELY
WHAT SAW TALKING TO THE GUYS LATER ON THEY SAW LOTS OF OTHER CARNAGE THAT WAS ON THE STREET BUT IM TRYING TO DRIVE THE RIG
AS WE PASSED THE LIBERTY STREET WALKWAY
BRIDGE WE WERE NOW LOOKING TO TRY TO FIND SPOT ON EITHER SIDE OF THE STREET BUT THERE WAS REALLY NOWHERE FOR ME TO TUCK THE RIG IN IT SEEMED LIKE THERE WERE TONS OF UNITS THERE ALREADY WE ENDED UP GOING NORTH
OF THE VESEY STREET WALKWAY BRIDGE AND WE ENDED UP
OFF TO THE LEFT HAND SIDE OF THE STREET SOMEWHERE YOU KNOW BLOCK OR TWO OR SOME DISTANCE
PAST THE VESEY STREET WALKWAY
FRC TH GC TH RIG GC ALL
OUR GEAR TOGETHER AND WE MADE IT POINT TO
LISTEN LETS MAKE POINT NOT TO GET SEPARATED REMEMBER THE BOSS TELLING THE GUYS SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE BAD DAY IT WAS JUST
NOT GOING TO BE GOOD DAY
SO AS WE WERE WALKING BACK HEADED BACK TO
THE COMMAND POST WHICH WAS SET UP BELIEVE IT WAS ON THE WEST SIDE OF WEST STREET GUESS THE AMERICAN
PULLING
SAID

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EXPRESS BUILDING WAS BEHIND US AND WE WERE LOOKING DIRECTLY AT THE NORTH TOWER FROM THERE YOU COULD SEE
THAT BUILDING THE MARRIOTT HOTEL WAS TO THE RIGHT THE SOUTH TOWER WAS BEHIND THE MARRIOTT
REMEMBER LOOKING UP WATCHING THERE WAS SMOKE PUSHING FROM BOTH BUILDINGS BUT AT THIS TIME
WHEN YOU KNOW KNOW YOU ARE HEARING BITS AND PIECES OF INFORMATION BUT YOU DONT HAVE TIME TO DISCUSS IT
GET ALL THE FACTS LIKE TWO COMMERCIAL AIR LINERS HIT THE BUILDING
DONT THINK WAS FULLY AWARE OF THAT THINK IT WAS HALF OF THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE WHAT WE ARE WATCHING LITTLE BIT OF EXCITEMENT TOO LIKE WOW WE ARE GOING TO BE
BUT PRCBABLY IN TH COMMAND POST FOR PROBABLY NOT MORE THAN MINUTES
MAYBE LITTLE MORE DONT REALLY REMEMBER THE EXACT TIME FRAME BUT REMEMBER WHILE WE STOOD THERE IN
THESE TWO DRIVEWAYS LOOKING UP AT THE NORTH TOWER AND SEEING DEBRIS COMING DOWN AND REMEMBER AS THE DEBRIS GOT CLOSER TO THE GROUND YOU REALIZED THAT IT WAS PEOPLE BECAUSE THEN YOU STARTED SEEING ARMS AND LEGS AND THAT WAS GUESS LIKE WATCHING TRAIN WRECK

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YOU JUST HAD TO WATCH YOU JUST COULDNT BELIEVE WHAT
YOU WERE WATCHING
REMEMBER SEEING PROBABLY FROM THAT TIME
FRAME TO 12 PEOPLE WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE ONE PERSON COMING DOWN THERE WAS SECOND AND THIRD PERSON ON THEIR WAY DOWN JUST REMEMBER IT WAS LIKE CANNON BALLS HITTING THE GROUND BOOM MOST OF THEM WERE LANDING UP ON GUESS THERE WAS SOMEWHAT OF SET BACK ON THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING WHERE THEY WERENT LANDING ON THE STREET BECAUSE IT WAS GUESS SOME SORT OF SET BACK THEY WERE LANDING THERE
REMEMBER ONE PERSON ACTUALLY HITTING
PIECE OF STRUCTURAL STEEL OVER GLASS CANOPY AND THAT
JUST DISINTEGRATED JUST THE MOST HORRIFIC
EVER SAW BUT LIKE SAID YOU WATCHED IT
DISB BUT YRNI JUST CANT
WATCHING REMEMBER THE REACTION OF THE GUYS BEHIND
ME LIKE OH MY GOD THEY ARE JUMPING THEY ARE JUMPING AND SOMEBODY SAYING TURN AROUND DONT WATCH IT REMEMBER JUST SAYING YOU KNOW DONT NEED TO WATCH THAT TURNING MY FACE AWAY AND YOU JUST HEAR THE POUNDING LIKE BOOM IT WAS JUST TREMENDOUSLY LOUD
LIKE TAKING BAG OF CONCRETE AND THROWING IT IN
CLOSED COURTYARD JUST LOUD ECHO JUST BOOM BOOM
THING
IN SOMEWHAT
WHAT IM

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ANYWAY DONT REMEMBER EXACTLY WHO WAS IN
THE COMMAND POST WITH US BUT KNOW WE WENT THROUGH
THE TUNNEL WITH 105 132 BECAUSE WE WERE ALL
STATIONED ACTUALLY REMEMBER VAGUELY SEEING THE 48
BATTALION ON THE BROOKLYN SIDE ALL THESE COMPANIES
REMEMBER SEEING ON THE BROOKLYN SIDE REMEMBER
SEEING 105S RIG BECAUSE THEY GOT SPOT CLOSER TO THE
COMMAND POST THEY ACTUALLY THINK WERE PARKED
ACTUALLY JUST NORTH OF THE VESEY STREET WALKWAY OR VERY CLOSE TO IT REMEMBER SEEING THAT
WE ENDED UP GETTING OUR ASSIGNMENT WE WERE GOING TO GO INTO THE SOUTH TOWER WITH THAT WE STARTED HEADING SOUTH ALONG WEST STREET AND WE DIDNT GO STRAIGHT ACROSS BECAUSE WITH ALL THE DEBRIS AND PEOPLE THAT WERE COMING DOWN WE HEADED OVER TOWARDS LIBERTY STR AND KIND TC SC HEAD CRN FRC
THE WALKWAY BRIDGE WERE STILL MORE OR
AS WE CROSSED OVER WEST STREET WE LESS UNDER THE LIBERTY STREET
WALKWAY AND KNOW 131 THEY WERE BEHIND US BECAUSE WHEN WE ENDED UP GOING IN THE HOTEL THEY WERE RIGHT BEHIND US BUT WE WERE ALL GOING IN GROUPS OF THREE OR FOUR OR FIVE LIKE LOOKING UP TO MAKE SURE IT WAS CLEAR AND THEN RUNNING DIAGONALLY ACROSS THE STREET AND THEN ENTERING GUESS THROUGH THE RESTAURANT PORTION OF THE

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OF THE HOTEL WHICH IS RIGHT ON THE CORNER OF LIBERTY AND WEST
WE WENT INSIDE PROBABLY 60 OR 80 FEET AND THEN WE CAME TO STOP BECAUSE THERE WERE UNITS IN
FRONT OF US WHO HAD COME TO STOP IT WAS ALMOST LIKE YOU GOT THE IMPRESSION THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO LOOK OVER THE CROWD TO SEE WHO WAS LEADING THE PROCESSION OR WHO WAS DIRECTING TRAFFIC AHEAD BUT IN MY MIND IT WAS
LIKE WELL AS SOON AS THE COMPANIES IN FRONT OF US MOVE THATS WHEN WE START TO MOVE
EVERYBODY WAS STANDING FAST EVERYBODY HAD THEIR GEAR REMEMBER CIVILIANS THAT WERE WORKING IN THE HOTEL SOME WOMAN BRINGING OUT BOTTLE OF WATER
BIG GALLON BOTTLE AND SHE WAS TRYING TO POUR CUPS THERE WAS DESK OFF TO THE SIDE SAID WHY DONT YOU
PUT THAT DC CM TH DESK TH SCBRRNIGHT MIT CASES OF WATER REMEMBER TAKING CASE OF WATER AND
WALKING IT AHEAD AND PUTTING IT DOWN FOR SOME OF THE GUYS THAT WERE MAYBE 20 30 FEET AHEAD OF US
DONT REMEMBER SEEING HEAD PIECES OF THE
GUYS IN FRONT OF US BUT SOME OF THE GUYS THAT WE WERE
WITH ONE OF THE GUYS WHO ACTUALLY SPENT YEAR IN 105 SAID HE SAW 105 THEY WERE JUST SOME DISTANCE IN FRONT
OF US WHERE YOU COULD STILL SEE THEM BUT THEY WERE
10

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ALSO STANDING FAST LIKE SAID YOU WERENT MOVING BECAUSE THERE WERE GUYS IN FRONT YOU JUST ASSUMED THAT THEY WERE GOING IN THE SAME PLACE YOU DIDNT
MAKE PUSH TO GO THROUGH THE CROWD
SOMETIME AFTER THAT WE WERE PROBABLY THERE
FOR ANOTHER SAY MINUTES THEN THERE WAS TALK IN THE GROUP WITH US AND 131 AND WHOEVER THE COMPANY WAS IN FRONT OF DONT REMEMBER BUT SAYING DONT KNOW IF WE ARE IN THE RIGHT PLACE
REMEMBER WALKING NOW AT THIS POINT HAD TAKEN OFF MY TURN OUT COAT AND MY MASK AND LAID IT DOWN
FIGURED BECAUSE IM SWEATING MY NUTS OFF AT THIS
POINT SAID WHEN THEY START MOVING WE WILL GRAB OUR
GEAR WE WILL GO THROUGH SOMEBODY ALSO SAID ITS
LIKE AN HOUR WALK TO 70 WE JUST FIGURED LIKE WOW WE
GC TC GC UP TC JUST TRY VACUAT SC PEOPLE
REMEMBER WALKING STRAIGHT AHEAD MORE TOWARDS THE FRONT OF THE LOBBY OF THE MARRIOTT AND GRABBED THE MAINTENANCE GUY AND ASKED HIM WHERE ARE WE RIGHT NOW HE SAID YOU GUYS ARE IN LIKE THE RESTAURANT OR BAR AREA OF THE HOTEL WHICH WAS WHERE WE WERE STANDING BUT THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL BAR RESTAURANT WOULD BE BETWEEN WALL WE WERE IN AN AREA THAT WAS
11

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PROBABLY LIKE 20 FEET WIDE TO OUR LEFT WOULD BE WEST STREET STRAIGHT AHEAD WOULD BE THE NORTH TOWER TO
THE RIGHT THE SOUTH TOWER BEHIND US WAS THE DOOR THAT WE CAME IN GUESS WE WERE IN LIKE CORRIDOR THAT WOULD TAKE YOU TO THE LOBBY AND THROUGH THE WALL THAT WAS TO OUR IMMEDIATE RIGHT THE RESTAURANT BAR AREA WAS DIRECTLY BEHIND THAT AND THE DOORWAY TO GET IN THERE WAS MORE OR LESS THE DOORWAY THAT WE CAME IN IF YOU MADE SHARP RIGHT THAT WOULD TAKE YOU INTO THE RESTAURANT BAR AREA
HE TOLD US WHERE WE WERE AND ASKED THE GUY HOW DO WE GET TO THE SOUTH TOWER HE SAID GO STRAIGHT
THROUGH THE LOBBY MORE OR LESS HE SAID YOU GO THROUGH THOSE DOUBLE DOORS AND YOU MAKE RIGHT AND IT WILL
TAKE YOU BACK TO THE SOUTH TOWER REMEMBER ASKING HIM AR GC TC INSIDE TH WHC TIME SAID YES THERE IS LIKE TUNNEL OR SOME OVERHEAD THAT YOU WONT BE EXPOSING YOURSELF TO DEBRIS THATS FALLING DOWN
REMEMBER TELLING OUR LIEUTENANT AND THE BOSS OF 131 SAID LOU WE ARE NOT IN THE RIGHT
PLACE WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS CROWD WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THOSE DOORS WITH THAT WE PUT OUR GEAR ON AND TWO OF OUR GUYS HAD GONE TO THE BATHROOM YOU TURN
12

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BACK WHERE ARE THEY THEY WENT INTO THE BATHROOM WHICH WAS ACTUALLY IN THE BAR RESTAURANT THERE THEY
SAID THAT WHEN THEY WERE IN THE BATHROOM THERE WAS
TON OF GUYS IN THERE SOME GUYS WHO HAVE HEARD THIS STORY THOUGHT CANT BELIEVE THEY WENT TO THE
BATHROOM BUT YOU WERE STANDING FAST YOU WERE MORE OR LESS STAGING THERE WAS NOBODY GOING ANYWHERE
ONCE THEY CAME OUT WE SAID WE ARE NOT IN THE RIGHT PLACE IT WAS ONLY MATTER OF MINUTE WHEN
THEY SHOWED UP SAYING WE ARE NOT IN THE RIGHT PLACE
GET YOUR GEAR WE ARE GOING THROUGH SHORTLY AFTER THEY CAME OUT AND GOT THEIR GEAR ON WE WERE READY TO
GO STRAIGHT AHEAD YOU HEARD ROAR SOME SORT OF VIBRATION LIKE VRR VRR VRR GETTING LOUDER AND LOUDER
MY FIRST THRMGHT TC MYSELF LIVE DC IN ROCKAWAY SO HAVE HEARD PLANES COMING OVERHEAD FOR
IT SOUNDED LIKE PLANE GETTING CLOSER AND LOUDER AND LOUDER AND NEXT THING YOU KNOW YOU FELT THE
BUILDING SHOOK AT THAT MOMENT IT WAS THINK EVERY MAN FOR THEMSELVES THINK MIGHT HAVE HEARD
SOMEBODY SAY ITS COMING DOWN OR SOMETHING
BUT AT THE TIME WAS FACING STRAIGHT WHICH
WAS FACING NORTH IN THE HOTEL LOBBY TO MY LEFT WAS
YEARS
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WEST STREET AND REMEMBER THINKING TO MYSELF IM GOING TO HEAD TOWARDS THAT PERIMETER WALL AND THERE WAS
DESK SOMEWHAT BEHIND ME REMEMBER DIVING TO MY LEFT AND BACK BETWEEN THE PERIMETER WALL AND DESK
REMEMBER HEARING CRASHING COMING DOWN
THERE WAS DUST STARTING TO BLOW IN BECAUSE
REMEMBER STARTING TO FEEL STUFF IN MY MOUTH TRYING TO
SPIT THAT OUT AND REMEMBER HAVING PROBLEMS BREATHING BECAUSE THERE WAS JUST SO MUCH CRAP BLOWING INTO MY
FACE REMEMBER JUST LYING THERE ON THE FLOOR
THINKING CANT BREATHE TOO WELL RIGHT NOW BECAUSE GOT ALL THIS CRAP IN MY MOUTH AND IM JUST WAITING FOR SOMETHING TO FALL ON ME AND THEN IM JUST GOING TO SIT HERE AND IM GOING TO SUFFOCATE
ONCE ALL THE CRASHINGS YOU KNOW AFTER THAT WENT SILENT CC HEAR GUYS BEHIND INSIDE
THE DOORWAY WHERE WE HAD JUST COME IN GUESS THERE WAS SOME SORT OF FIRE GATE OR SOMETHING OR SECURITY
IM NOT SURE THAT HAD SOMEWHAT COME DOWN AND CLOSED AND IT WAS ONLY OPEN LIKE FEET THERE WAS
BUNCH OF GUYS THAT WERE TRYING TO LIFT IT UP
REMEMBER GETTING UP STILL HAD MY MASK ON AT THIS POINT BECAUSE JUST WHEN WE WERE GETTING READY TO GO HAD ALL THE GEAR ON HAD HALLIGAN AN AXE MY
GATE
14

15
REMEMBER TURNING MY LIGHT ON AND LOOKING IT WAS PITCH BLACK YOU HAD HAZE OF DUST LOOKING
AROUND FOR THE GUYS THAT WAS JUST STANDING WITH WAS ABLE TO FINALLY LIEUTENANT MCLETCHIE AND JOHN
LIKE WHERE ARE THEY
REMEMBER WALKING AROUND AND JUST KIND OF
DOING QUICK LOOK AROUND TRYING TO LOOK THROUGH THE DUST AND THE DARKNESS LOOKING STRAIGHT AHEAD COULD
SEE THAT IT WAS PRETTY MUCH FROM WHAT REMEMBER SEALED OFF THAT PART OF THE LOBBY WAS NOW BLOCKED WITH
WHATEVER TALKING TO KASEY NOT KASEY LEANZA AND MCLETCHIE SAID DONT KNOW WHERE DAVE AND THE OTHER
GUYS ARE
SO REMEMBER WALKING BACK TOWARDS THE GUYS
THAT WERE LIFTING THE GATE UP AND THEY WERE TRYING TO LIFT IT UP BUT IT WAS OPEN LIKE MAYBE FEET
REMEMBER GOING BACK AND GRABBING LIKE PODIUM AND WEDGING IT THERE THAT WAY THE GATE WOULDNT COME DOWN
ANY FURTHER WAS ABLE TO WALK OUT THE SAME DOOR THAT WE HAD WALKED INTO AT THIS POINT STILL DONT KNOW THE SOUTH TOWER CAME DOWN IM CONVINCED THAT UP UNTIL
MASK GETTING READY TO PARADE STRAIGHT AHEAD
LEANZA AT THIS POINT WE WERE MISSING
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GUYS
VITIELLO KOYLES AND KASEY WERE NOT THERE IT WAS JUST

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THAT AFTERNOON WAS SAYING WAS IN THE HOTEL WHEN IT
GOT HIT BY PLANE
REMEMBER GOING OUTSIDE NOW TO MY LEFT
DOWN LIBERTY STREET IN THE DIRECTION OF 10 HOUSE REMEMBER SEEING PARKED CARS THAT WERE ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE STREET AS US AND THEY WERE COVERED IN RUBBLE PROBABLY JUST HIGHER THAN THEIR FRONT ENDS BECAUSE COULD JUST STILL MAKE OUT THEIR FLASHING HEADLIGHTS WITH THE ALARMS GOING OFF
REMEMBER LOOKING SOUTH ON WEST STREET
PAST ON THE SIDE OF THE LIBERTY STREET WALKWAY BRIDGE WHERE LADDER 113S RIG WAS REMEMBER THAT WAS BALL
OF FIRE DIDNT KNOW IT WAS 113S RIG AT THE TIME REMEMBER THERE WAS BALL OF FIRE OVER THERE AND
WAS LIKE WOW WHATS BURNING OVER THERE
TH WAS AN ENGINE CR HC UP RIGHT OUTSIDE THE HOTEL WHERE WE WALKED IN GUESS HOOKED UP
TO HYDRANT AND HOOKED UP TO THE STAND PIPE DONT REMEMBER WHAT ENGINE IT WAS BUT REMEMBER THERE WAS ANOTHER GUY FIREMAN HE HAD BLOOD ON HIS FACE AND HE WAS TRYING TO FORCE OPEN SOME OF THE GUESS EMS COMPARTMENTS ON THE RIG
TRIED TO GIVE HIM HAND WE COULDNT FORCE THEM REMEMBER THERE WAS OTHER DEBRIS BURNING IN THE
16

MCCABE
AREA OF THE DOORWAY REMEMBER IT WAS ONE OF THOSE MATS THAT YOU WOULD HANG ON AN ELEVATOR WHEN YOU WERE
MOVING ONE OF THOSE WAS PIECE OF THAT BURNING BY THE DOORWAY SO REMEMBER GETTING THE CAN WITH THIS OTHER GUY OFF THE ENGINE REMEMBER TO GET IT OFF YOU HAD TO CLIMB OVER SOME DEBRIS AND KIND OF FORCE IT OUT LIKE IT WAS KIND OF WEDGED IN THERE
BUT THERE WAS LOT OF DEBRIS ON IT BUT LIKE SAID STILL DIDNT KNOW WHAT HAD HAPPENED KNEW
THERE WAS MESS OUT THERE THERE WASNT LOT OF
LIKE SAID IT DIDNT MAKE SENSE LOT OF THIS STUFF IT WAS LATER IN THE DAY WHEN FOUND OUT
WHAT HAPPENED REMEMBERED WAS LIKE YES COME TO THINK OF IT THERE WASNT LOT OF ACTIVITY ON WEST STREET IT WAS LIKE WHITE POWDER DONT REMEMBER CLIMBING RN LC DEBRIS BUT AND THIS GUY OPERATED DONT KNOW MAYBE 10 15 MINUTES
IN THAT TIME MCLETCHIE AND JOHN LEANZA CAME OUT OF THE HOTEL WE HAD LITTLE MEETING GUESS IN THE STREET BETWEEN THE LIBERTY STREET WALKWAY BRIDGE AND THE ENTRANCE TO THE HOTEL WHERE WE HAD GONE IN
THEY SAID THEY HAD GUY TRAPPED ITS BEEN WHILE NOW IM NOT SURE IF IT WAS THE BOSS OF 55 OR THE BOSS OF 58 ENGINE THEY HAD TRAPPED GUESS HE IDENTIFIED
PEOPLE
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IT TURNED OUT TO BE 113 WE HAD LITTLE
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HIMSELF THEY SAID WE NEEDED SOME OTHER GUYS TO GET HIM OUT
WITH THAT SOME OTHER GUYS CAME OUT FROM THE DIRECTION OF LIBERTY STREET WALKWAY BRIDGE BELIEVE
HOTEL IN THE DIRECTION MORE TOWARDS THE LOBBY AREA REMEMBER THE BOSS TELLING ME AND JOHNNY GO IN WITH THEM AND TRY TO GET HIM OUT TOLD THE BOSS WHY DONT YOU GO BACK BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHERE HE IS IM GOING TO HEAD BACK TO THE RIG BECAUSE THAT WAS ONE OF THE
THINGS WE SAID IF WE GET SEPARATED AT ANY TIME THATS GOING TO BE OUR MEETING GO BACK TO THE RIG
JUST BACKTRACKING WHEN WE WERE STILL IN THE HOTEL REMEMBER WAS ABLE TO GET IN TOUCH WITH DAVE KC WAS ABLE TC HIM CM TH RADIC GC HIS VOICE BUT WHAT WE DIDNT DO IS DONT REMEMBER
MEETING
THEY WERE SAYING WE GOT GUY TRAPPED SOMEWHERE IN THE
LOT OF RADIO TRAFFIC BUT THERE WAS COULDNT GET CONVERSATION OUT OF HIM
HE DIDNT COULDNT GET ENOUGH INFORMATION FOR HIM TO TELL ME WHERE HE WAS OR FOR HIM
TO TELL ME THAT THE OTHER TWO GUYS THAT WE WERE MISSING WERE WITH HIM SO HAD RADIO CONTACT WITH HIM AT THAT POINT SO KNEW HE WAS ALIVE BUT DIDNT HAVE ANY
THERE BEING
ENOUGH WHERE COULDNT
18

PICTURES AT THOSE
ME
MARRIOTT LIKE THE
REMEMBER WALKING AROUND THAT AND LOOKING AND THINKING IF THEY FALL OVER THEY CAN REACH
WITH THAT SAW IN THE BACKGROUND WAS THE HOTEL AND MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS THAT LOOKS OKLAHOMA CITY BUILDING BECAUSE REMEMBER THE
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CONTACT WITH THE CAN MAN AND THINK IT WAS DAVE THINK HE HAD THE ROOF
NOW AFTER WORKING WITH THE GUY ON THIS ENGINE COMPANY REMEMBER WALKING WAS NOW UP ON WEST STREET THERE WERE OF THOSE BIG PIECES OF STEEL THAT WERE STUCK IN THE GROUND THAT YOU SEE IN ALL THE
WHOLE MIDDLE OF IT JUST SEEMED LIKE IT WAS CARVED OUT SOMEWHERE RIGHT AROUND THAT TIME GOT
MAYDAY HEARD MAYDAY TRANSMIT MAYDAY MAYDAY
MAYDAY LADDER WITH MAYDAY NCTHC THE MAYDAY CAME AGAIN ANSWERED IT
WITH YOUR MAYDAY HE SAID IM TRAPPED
ANSW IT
SAID GO AHEAD
WAS KNOCKED UNCONSCIOUS DONT KNOW WHERE AM HE GAVE ME HIS
NAME IT WAS MIKE BRENNAN BECAUSE SAID WHAT WAS YOUR LAST KNOWN LOCATION HE SAID HE DIDNT KNOW HE WAS KNOCKED UNCONSCIOUS BUT HE WAS TRAPPED
DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT SAID TO HIM AFTER THAT REMEMBER JUST LOOKING AROUND THINKING GOT
19

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OR GUYS MISSING DONT KNOW EVEN KNOW WHERE TO
BEGIN THERE WAS JUST NOBODY AROUND JUST FELT HELPLESS AT THAT POINT YOU THINK THATS ONE OF THE
THINGS SHOULD NOT THINK ABOUT NOW AND AGAIN BUT STARTED TO WALK NORTH ALONG WEST STREET HEADING BACK TO THE RIG FIGURED AT SOME POINT WHEN SEE CHIEF OR
WILL TELL SOMEBODY THAT GOT MAYDAY FROM GUY LIKE SAID HAD NO CLUE WHERE THE GUY
WAS
VESEY STREET WALKWAY PASSED THAT GOT TO OUR RIG WHICH WAS AGAIN DONT REMEMBER EXACTLY HOW FAR BUT
IT WAS SOME DISTANCE PAST
GC TC TH RIG TH GUYS TH ALSO WITH THIS BACK AT THE HOTEL MCLETCHIE LEANZA
AND THE GUYS FROM 113 THEY ENDED UP GOING BACK INTO THE HOTEL TO TRY TO GET THINK IT WAS EITHER THE
BOSS OF 58 ENGINE OR 55 HAVE TO ASK THEM DONT REMEMBER NOW
KEPT WALKING THINKING BACK IT WAS WHITE DONT REMEMBER CLIMBING OVER MOUNTAINS OF
BUT REMEMBER GUESS STEPPING OVER STUFF GOT BACK PASSED THE NORTH TOWER GOT TO THE
POWDER DEBRIS
SO THEY ARE IN THERE THEY ARE NOT OUR GUYS ARENT
WALKING NORTH BECAUSE THINK
GO BACK TO THE RIG THERE SO CONTINUE
SEE GUYS IN THE
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DISTANCE GUESS REMEMBER SEEING GUYS SO START WALKING BUT ALSO REMEMBER SEEING JUST LIKE FEW
STRAGGLER FIREMEN WALKING BUT NOBODY IS COMING TOGETHER AND SAYING WE GOT TO DO THIS BECAUSE THINK
WAS HALF SHELL SHOCKED AND GUESS LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE WERE
SHORTLY AFTER AS IM WALKING YOU HEAR ANOTHER LOUD BOOM HEAR GUYS BEHIND ME GUESS
HEAR SOME COMMOTION BEHIND ME AND TURN AROUND AND SEE GUYS RUNNING TOWARDS ME AGAIN THINK HEAR SOMEBODY SAY ITS COMING DOWN REMEMBER TURNING LOOKING AND LOOKING UP AND SEEING THE DUST CLOUD
OPENING UP OVERHEAD
WITH THAT GOT THAT SICK FEELING AM JUST
LIKE ALL THE WIND IS OUT OF YOU SAYING LIKE HOLY SHIT THRCW TH HALLIGAN DCWN THAT HAD IN MY HAND AND START RUNNING AS FAST AS CAN HEADING NORTH IM REACHING FOR THE SHOULDER STRAPS IM THINKING DONT HAVE MUCH TIME HERE IM GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE SHELTER IM PASSING RIGS IM
THE WAIST STRAP UNDONE
NOW IM JUST RUNNING AND MY BUNKER GEAR PASSED
JUST HAVE MY HELMET POLICE CAR THINK IT
WAS DUCK IN BEHIND THE BACK OF THE POLICE CAR IM
PASSING CARS GOT
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THINKING TO MYSELF DONT CLIMB UNDER THE CAR BECAUSE WHEN IT GETS HIT THE CAR IS GOING TO LURCH DONT WANT IT LANDING ON MY BACK JUST GOT ON MY HANDS AND KNEES AGAINST THE BACK OF THE CAR JUST PUT MY HEAD DOWN MORE OR LESS WAITED TO GET CRUSHED AGAIN
THEN IT WAS SILENT THEN YOU JUST HEARD
CRRRRRRR JUST RUSH OF WIND GETTING LOUDER AND LOUDER
AND EVERYTHING IS JUST BLOWING IN NOW YOU GOT HIT WITH THE DUST AGAIN JUST LOT WORSE THAN IT WAS
INSIDE BECAUSE NOW THERE WAS GUESS THERE WAS
NOTHING REALLY PROTECTING YOU FROM THE DUST BUT REMEMBER THAT BLOWING LIKE HALFWAY DOWN YOUR THROAT TO
THE POINT WHERE YOU ARE REALLY GAGGING ON IT BUT IM STILL WAITING FOR HEAVIER PIECES OF DEBRIS TO START FALLING AROUND ME WHICH DIDNT HAPPEN
NC IT GC PITCH BLACK HEARING
SOMEONE GUESS IT WOULD BE TO MY LEFT SAYING HELP ME HELP ME DONT KNOW WHO IT WAS DIDNT REALLY
FIND THAT PERSON REMEMBER STANDING UP AGAIN ITS
PITCH BLACK ITS LIKE DONT SOMETHING FELL DOWN BUT STILL BUILDING COMPLETELY FELL DOWN IM THINKING MAYBE PORTION OF
EVEN KNOW KNOW DONT KNOW THE
GUESS AT THAT TIME THE TOP FELL DOWN WHEN GOT UP CONTINUED WALKING NORTH
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GUESS ENDED UP ON CHAMBERS STREET SO WAS WALKING IN THAT DIRECTION AND THINK IT WAS AT THAT TIME
REMEMBER HELPING AN EMS WORKER PUT ONE OF THEIR
PERSONNEL ON ONE OF THE CARRY CHAIRS THEY NEEDED
HAND CARRYING HER REMEMBER WALKING AND STEPPING OVER SOME DEBRIS YOU KNOW TO KIND OF HELP WALK
REMEMBER FEELING EXHAUSTED
SOMEBODY ELSE WALKED UP AND REMEMBER ONLY
CARRYING THIS PERSON FOR NOT TOO LONG GRABBING SOMEONE AND SAYING YOU GOT TO HELP HER GOT TO GO AT
THAT POINT WAS THINKING GOT TO SEE IF CAN FIND
THE GUYS IM WITH AT THAT POINT IM THINKING IM THE ONLY GUY FROM THE COMPANY GOING HOME BECAUSE KNOW THE OTHER TWO GUYS WERE IN THE HOTEL TWO GUYS
DONT KNOW WHERE THEY WERE BRIEFLY TH
ENDED UP GETTING STILL NOT BEING FULLY AWARE
ONE GUY HAD RADIO CONTACT CAME DCWN
UP TO CHAMBERS STREET
OF WHAT WAS GOING ON
IN THE HOTEL WHEN PLANE
REMEMBER TELLING GUYS WAS
HIT WITHIN THE NEXT HOUR OR SO THE IRONS MAN
LEANZA AND MCLETCHIE GOT THEM ON THE RADIO GOT KOYLES THE FIRST GUY HAD GOTTEN RADIO CONTACT WITH AFTER THE FIRST BUILDING CAME DOWN HAD HIM ON THE RADIO BUT TWO OF THE OTHER GUYS WERE STILL NO CONTACT
23

WITH THEM
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GUESS WITHIN THE NEXT HOURS WE ACCOUNTED FOR ALL THE GUYS ONE GUY ENDED UP AFTER THE FIRST
BUILDING CAME DOWN KASEY ENDED UP GETTING ON BOAT
AND GOING TO JERSEY HOSPITAL DAVE VITIELLO HE ENDED UP MAKING HIS WAY UP TO CHAMBERS AND WEST STREET
SO EVERYBODY WAS TOGETHER REMEMBER SITTING THERE TALKING AND WHEN SAID TO SOMEBODY THAT WAS IN THE
HOTEL WHEN PLANE HIT HE SAID WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE PLANE HIT HE GOES BOTH BUILDINGS HAD BEEN HIT
ALREADY SAID WHAT DO YOU MEAN SAID WHAT NOISE WERE WE HEARING WHAT WE HEARD WAS THE NOISE OF THAT
SOUTH TOWER COMING DOWN
AT THAT POINT WE HAD GOTTEN WORD THAT ALL OUR
GUYS WERE ACCOUNTED FOR WE STARTED HEARING STORIES THAT SC GUYS MISSING NC GC
VERIFICATION THAT KASEY WAS IN THE HOSPITAL
TELLING THE BOSS NOW THIS WAS PROBABLY
IF IT WAS AN HOUR OR TWO LATER SAID IM GOING TO TAKE WALK BACK OVER TO WHERE WE WERE
BUT AT THIS POINT GUESS WAS KIND OF GUN SHY FROM WALKING DOWN WEST STREET SAID IM GOING TO WALK DOWN ALONG THE WATER AND THEN IM GOING TO COME UP
LIKE LIBERTY AND SEE IF CAN SEE ANYTHING
24
REMEMBER DONT KNOW

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REMEMBER WHEN CAME UP LIBERTY TO WEST STREET NOW COULD SEE THIS DEVASTATION THAT
DEFINITELY DIDNT SEE TO THAT MAGNITUDE AFTER THE FIRST BUILDING CAME DOWN BUT NOW THERE WAS JUST MOUNTAINS OF
STEEL REMEMBER SEEING WHAT TURNED OUT TO BE 10
TRUCK FLIPPED ON ITS SIDE KIND OF TWISTED REMEMBER
WALKING ACROSS THE BUMPER OF TAC UNIT THINKING THAT THERE WERE GUYS THAT KNEW IN TAC WHO ACTUALLY DIDNT
MAKE IT REMEMBER WALKING ACROSS THE BUMPER OF ONE OF THE TAC UNITS CLIMBING UP ON SOME STEEL AND JUST FIGURING THAT IF KASEY WAS AROUND MAYBE WOULD SEE HIM
RAN INTO SOME GUYS FROM OTHER COMPANIES THAT KNEW WHAT WAS LEFT OF THE HOTEL WAS WHAT HAD SEEN OF THE HOTEL WAS NO LONGER STANDING IT WAS
PC
GUESS WHAT WRNILD
XPC
JUST
SIDE STILL STANDING GUESS LOOKING AT IT IM ON THE
WEST SIDE OF WEST STREET NOW LOOKING ACROSS AT THE HOTEL GUESS THE ONE END OF THE HOTEL CLOSEST TO
LIBERTY THAT WAS GUESS YOU KNOW THE ONLY REMAINING PORTION OF THE HOTEL THAT WAS STILL STANDING
NOW LEANZA AND MCLETCHIE HAD SAID THEY LEFT THE HOTEL BECAUSE THEY NEEDED GENERATOR BECAUSE THE
POWER TOOLS THE BATTERY OPERATED TOOLS THAT THEY WERE
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USING TO TRY TO GET THE BOSS OUT THINK IT WAS 58
BUT WHATEVER THEY RAN OUT OF THE BATTERY POWER WENT
DEAD SO THEY WENT LOOKING FOR GENERATOR THEY SAID WHEN THEY CAME OUT THEY WERE NOW BETWEEN THE HOTEL AND
THE LIBERTY STREET WALKWAY WHEN THE NORTH TOWER CAME DOWN THEY ENDED UP RUNNING OVER TO THE BASE OF THE
PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY AND THEY TOOK SHELTER AT THE BASE OF ONE OF THOSE COLUMNS FORTUNATELY THEY SURVIVED ALSO
AFTER THAT ENDED UP GOING BACK OVER TO LIKE CHAMBERS AND WEST STAYED THERE FOR THE NEXT COUPLE OF
HOURS WANTING TO DO SOMETHING BUT IT WAS JUST AT THIS POINT MY EYES WERE STARTING TO BOTHER ME PROBABLY AROUND OCLOCK THAT NIGHT GUESS IT WAS 830 ME MCLETCHIE AND IM NOT SURE WHO ELSE FEW OF US ENDED UP TAKING RIDE TO THE HOSPITAL BECAUSE
THAT AFT THREE OR FOUR THEN ENDED UP CHECKED AGAIN
HAD MY FLUSHED LIKE TIMES AT THE STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL AND
GOING TO THE HOSPITAL TO HAVE THEM WHERE HAD MY EYES FLUSHED AGAIN
REMEMBER GREGG MCLETCHIE HE HAD BUMP ON HIS HEAD ATTENDED TO WENT TO BELLEVUE HOSPITAL ENDED
UP COMING BACK TO QUARTERS PROBABLY ABOUT 11 1130 FOR THE FIRST TIME SAW IT ON TV THE ACTUAL PLANES
HITTING THE BUILDINGS AND ACTUALLY SEEING THEM COLLAPSE
26

AIRPLANE WAS WAY TC BIG FC TH TYPE
MCCABE
TO THE POINT WHERE THEY JUST COMPLETELY PANCAKED
SAID LIKE COULDNT BELIEVE THAT THE BUILDINGS CAME
DOWN BECAUSE REMEMBER SITTING THERE IN THE AFTERNOON
LOOKING UP AT THE SMOKE TELLING PEOPLE WHATS LEFT OF THE BUILDINGS MUST BE UP IN THE SMOKE BECAUSE DONT
SEE ANYTHING
THEN SOME OTHER THINGS MADE SENSE LIKE WHEN
CAME OUT OF THE HOTEL NOW REALIZE WHY IT SEEMED LIKE IT WAS SO QUIET BECAUSE NOBODY WAS LEFT THERE
ANYBODY THAT WAS IN THE COMMAND POST GUESS THEY GOT
BLOWN DOWN THE DRIVEWAYS AND THEY PROBABLY HADNT DUSTED THEMSELVES OFF YET
THE PIECE OF AIRPLANE THAT ORIGINALLY SAW COMING OUT OF THE TUNNEL NOW IT MADE SENSE AT THE TIME IT DIDNT MAKE SENSE BUT THAT PIECE OF AN
PLANE THAT ENVISIONED HITTING THIS BUILDING ITS LIKE YOU
KNOW ITS JUMBO JET COME TO THINK OF IT THAT
PIECE OF PLANE LOOKED LIKE IT CRUSHED HALF THAT CAR AND
REMEMBER THAT FIRST PIECE OF INTESTINE THAT
WAS THINKING AT THAT MOMENT THAT MUST BE THE PILOT OF
THE PLANE
THEN FIND OUT ITS ALL THIS AND REALIZE OH MY GOD ALL THESE PEOPLE GOT THROWN OUT OF THE
27
SAW

MCCABE
BUILDING AND THE NOISE HEARD WAS THE SOUND OF THE TOWER COMING DOWN AND THE OTHER BUILDING WAS COMING DOWN THINK THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH MY DAY
BATTALION CHIEF BURNS OKAY KEVIN THANKS
PM
FOR THE INTERVIEW THE TIME IS 421
28
File No. 9110345
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER KEVIN DUGGAN
   Interview Date:  December 14, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          I'm Battalion Chief Robert Burns, New York
     City Fire Department, conducting an interview
     with --
          FIREFIGHTER DUGGAN:  Firefighter 4th Grade
     Kevin Duggan, assigned to Engine 1, was on
     rotation with Engine 210 on September 11.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  And this interview is
     in regard to the events of September 11, 2001.
     Q.   If you would, Kevin, just tell us in your own
words what happened on that day.
     A.   I came in that morning for a day tour.  I
checked the rig.  We were sitting in the kitchen having
breakfast, and we heard over the voice alarm Brooklyn
announcing the second alarm at the World Trade Center,
and at that point, we turned on the TV to see what was
going on.
          We saw a lot of smoke coming out of the World
Trade Center, and then tone alarms went off, and we
were sent -- 210 was sent to World Trade Center.  We
were in the quarters of 211 and 119 at that time,
because 210's quarters were being redone.
          So we were over near towards in Williamsburg
     BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Today's date is
December 14, 2001.  The time is 1:24 p.m.
K. DUGGAN
3
basically.  We responded, and I never saw the ticket,
so I wasn't sure if we were responding to the incident
or if we were responding -- if we were getting
relocated, and so we headed -- I figured we would take
the Brooklyn Bridge, and we headed in that direction,
but apparently had been dispatched to the Brooklyn
Battery Tunnel, and so we went past the bridge.  We
were taking Park Avenue right under the BQE.  So we
went around and passed the bridge and were heading
towards the tunnel when the fellow sitting on the other
side of the rig saw the south tower explode.  He saw an
explosion.
          He told us the building just exploded.  We
looked over and we saw the south tower, a lot of orange
and a lot of smoke.  So we continued towards the
Battery Tunnel.  There was a lot of traffic.  Took us
awhile to get there.
          We got to the tunnel.  We saw -- I think it
was 105 or 132.  They were right ahead of us, and we
came in together with them.  The tunnel was backed up.
There was a car with a flat tire, so we were delayed.
Actually, the captain of 210 gave a report that 210
would be delayed due to traffic.
          We came through the tunnel finally, and we
K. DUGGAN
4
stopped because we got out of the tunnel right at West
Street just when you come out of the tunnel, and we had
a detail from 219 with us that day, and he wanted some
water.  So he hopped out of the rig and went to get
water, which was in one of the back compartments.
          We actually thought that's why we were
hopping off the rig.  I thought we were hopping off the
rig, but the captain waved us get back on, but the
detail grabbed the water jug so we could have some
water, and as we were there, 279 went past us while we
stopped and put the water jug on the rig.
          Then we pulled up, went up a little further
along West Street, past the first pedestrian bridge, so
that's Liberty Street, went past Liberty Street, and
somewhere between the Liberty Street and 2 World
Financial Center, we stopped and hopped out of the
rig.
          The command post was in front of a parking
garage at 2 World Financial Center.  So we got off the
rig, grabbed our roll-ups and our spare cylinder, and
we reported to command post.  As we were heading that
way, I saw Joe Falco from Engine 1 working with the
chauffeur from 65 engine hooking up to a hydrant, and I
didn't say hello to him.  I just walked past him.
K. DUGGAN
5
          We reported to the command post where Chief
Ganci and Feehan were, and the captain reported in, and
they told us to stand fast.  This was right in the
mouth of the parking garage.  So we were standing
there.  They put the engines on one side, on the north
side of the ramp, and the trucks were on the south
side.
          When I was standing there, I saw 24 truck was
there, and so I said hello to the guys from 24 truck.
I asked them were they sent on the third alarm.  They
said they were sent on the fifth, and one of the guys
told me to be careful in there, and I said I will, and
at that point, people started jumping.  So there was a
lot of debris had already been falling.
          At this point, there were jumpers, so when
the people started jumping, they tried to move us back
into the garage so that nothing would hit us on the
head, even though we were far enough away on the west
side of West Street.  They still said all right, just
move back inside so nothing -- when you're standing
there no one -- we don't want anyone getting hurt.
          So in the tunnel there, we were just in the
mouth of it.  We were there.  It was 210.  I saw 211,
202, 34 engine, 91 engine, 44 engine.  I saw Joe
K. DUGGAN
6
Angelini from Rescue 1.  He was wearing a different
helmet, and in my mind I was just, like, when did Joe
transfer to Rescue 1, not realizing that he was just
grabbed a helmet from somewhere else and just wearing
that.
          So we were just watching people.  People were
jumping.  The fire was -- a tremendous volume of fire.
Our captain said he didn't think we'd be able to put
out the fire because of the volume of fire versus the
volume of water.  He said the sprinklers were going to
be out, the standpipes were going to be out.  So we
were there.
          They told us there was a captain -- I think
he was a captain -- who was a liaison between the
command post and where we were, and he told us gear
down, take off your bunker coats.  It might be a little
while before you go to work.  So we were standing
there.  I took off my mask and jacket and put it all
down.  Again, just inside the mouth of the garage.
They wanted everyone inside the garage.
          At that point, I saw Captain Brethel from 24
truck, who was just a little to the north of the
command post.  The driveway ramps down.  He would have
been -- he was above where the driveway ramps down.  He
K. DUGGAN
7
was on the street level.  He was calling all the
off-duty members together so he was trying to -- I
found out later that he was off duty.  He had driven
Father Mike down.
          So he was calling the off-duty members
together so I guess he was trying to get a company of
guys together, and that was just to the north of that
driveway where the rest of the command post was, where
the other chiefs were.  So we were standing fast.
          I saw a couple of guys that I knew, said
hello.  We weren't sure what we were going to be told
to do.  Just at that point we still -- not realizing
what could we do and what were we going to do, but I
did expect we were going to be sent in at some point,
and so we geared down.
          My captain actually was standing -- he had
taken his bunker pants down to his knees, and we were
standing there, and then we just heard this real loud
roar.  We looked up and we could see the south tower.
Looked like the middle of it was just exploding out,
and at that point, one of the officers just said,
"Run," and we were just turned and started running
into the garage, so I just turned and ran in.
          I was just -- I didn't think it was a great
K. DUGGAN
8
move to be running into the building like that, but
there was nowhere else to go, and I was just thinking,
like, holy shit, we're going to be buried in here,
thinking the tower would probably fall over towards
us.
          I remember thinking I left my -- I had taken
off my mask, and when we started to run, I left my mask
down.  I don't even have my mask, but we just got real
lucky and went right to the back of the tunnel or the
parking garage and opened up a few doors.
          There was nothing, nowhere to go.  We opened
up one door, and there was a stairwell, so we all just
piled into the stairwell and -- so it was basically all
the engine companies that had been standing there made
it into this tunnel, made it into this stairwell.
          Then once we got into this stairwell, we
weren't sure -- we wanted to get out of the stairwell,
and there was a door to go upstairs was locked, and
they were trying to find a maintenance man.  We were
looking for some tools, looking to see if we could pop
the lock, but at that point one of the guys just pushed
the back door.
          There was a back door, and he opened it up
and just showed us what was out there.  It was pitch
K. DUGGAN
9
black, so we closed the door.  It was the emergency
exit.  So we just waited there for -- the radio was
complete silence, couldn't hear anything.  There was
nothing coming over the radio.
          We were waiting there.  We didn't know what
to do, but we figured just wait a few minutes.  They
opened up the door again maybe five minutes later, and
it wasn't as dark, but it was still pretty bad, so then
at that point there were a few captains who had gotten
together, and they said, "All right.  If it lightens up
a little more.  Then we'll just get out of here."
          So the third time they opened the door, it
looked like it was snowing out, and they said, "All
right, let's go."  So we just went straight out towards
the water, because that's where we ended up being.  We
were in the -- we found out afterwards we were in the 2
World Financial Center and through the parking garage.
          That leads you right out towards the marina
there, the harbor.  We got out and everyone just kind
of went on their own.  Some guys went south.  Some guys
went straight to the water.  Some guys went north.
          I looped around towards the north, and
because it seemed -- I guess it just looked like it was
whiter up that way, and went north.  Then the next
K. DUGGAN
10
thing was, was trying to find the rest of the members.
I saw the guys from 34 engine, but not 210.  Then I
found one guy from 210, who was the detail, and then I
found the captain of 210, and then the nozzle man of
210.  I had back up that day.
          So we had everybody, except the chauffeur,
but the chauffeur wasn't in the tunnel, because he had
been by the rig.  He was hooking up.  So we weren't
sure what happened to the chauffeur at that point, and
my captain -- because he had pulled down his bunker
pants got knocked down when we started running
originally, and he was a little bit disoriented, and he
had gotten hit with the dust cloud more heavily than
the rest of us, so his mouth was all dry and
everything.
          We were trying to get him some water.  He was
very concerned about calling his wife, because his
wife -- he had been talking to his wife right before we
got dispatched.  So he was looking for a pay phone and
basically just walked around.
          As we were heading north, we were looking for
some water, trying to get -- we had our crew, and there
was a pay phone there, so the captain called his wife,
let her know he was all right.  Then one of the other
K. DUGGAN
11
guys wanted to call his girlfriend because she worked
 -- she was a court officer, and he wanted to make sure
she was all right, and so he made that, and actually he
called his parents, and at that point we were
together.  We were trying to decide what to do next.
          My captain didn't want us to head back
towards the north tower, because he said that it was a
terrorist attack, and we couldn't be sure what was
going to happen next, and we still hadn't -- we were
still very -- we had gone around, around the -- we were
probably up getting near Vesey Street maybe at this
point.  No, we probably hadn't reached Vesey Street.
Somewhere right around there.  We were still right by
maybe 4 World Financial Center, because we were in the
grassy area there, and then the north tower, we heard
the rattling, and we saw the north tower collapse.
          The dust cloud came at us again.  So we just
headed north and again we got separated a little bit,
and we just kept -- we just headed north as the dust
cloud came towards us, so we headed north to stay out
of it as much as we could.  We still got hit with it,
but by heading north we were getting away from it
rather than -- the wind was blowing south, so once that
had passed, we realized it was just, again, it was like
K. DUGGAN
12
the snow was falling, so we headed north to try to
regroup, got up past Stuyvesant High School, ran into
Chief Collins from the 31 battalion, which was our
battalion, and he was a little disoriented, as well.
          So there was a guy with some oxygen, so we
gave him some oxygen.  We walked north out towards the
street and out towards West Street there.  At that
point, we were looking for -- just regrouping, and at
that point, there was a battalion chief from the safety
battalion, who was disoriented.
          He broke an ankle and looked like he was in
shock, and so he was just kind of wandering.  We got --
he was right next to an engine company, so we pulled a
board off the engine company, and there was a woman
there who -- of course I asked if she was a nurse.  It
turns out she was a doctor, but she helped us.
          We put him on a board, and there were a
couple of ambulances there, and put him on the board.
He was giving my captain the information for his --
wanted someone to call his wife, and he was concerned
about -- there were guys from the safety battalion in
the building, and I think he might have given the name
of one of the firefighters who he was with, and yeah,
he was pretty much in a state of shock.
K. DUGGAN
13
          So he was put on the board, put him in the
ambulance, and my captain who had been knocked down and
disoriented himself said he was going to the hospital
with the chief.  He said I could come along, but I said
no, I want to stay, because Chief Collins from the 31
battalion was -- I thought he was a little disoriented,
and I wanted to stay with him, and so I stayed with
him, and he didn't want to go to the hospital in the
ambulance.
          At that point, we met up -- I met up with the
other guys from 210, but not the chauffeur, still the
nozzle man and the detail from 219, and then we were
pretty much by ourselves at that point.  So then we saw
211.  Since we were in the same quarters with 211, we
knew all the guys and their captain, Captain Clark, so
we kind of fell in with them, and that was our crew for
the rest of the day.
          210 went in with 211, and so at that point
there was a report of a gas leak.  They told to us move
north again, so we went north again, and we realized
everything was all right to go back, so we went back
then.  We reported in to the command post they had set
up on West Street.  This is after both towers had
collapsed.
K. DUGGAN
14
          We were told -- we were in Group 7, and we'd
be put to work in a little white.  So we were just all
in the staging area right by Stuyvesant High School, so
we could go in and use the bathroom, whatever.  We were
there for an hour or so.
          Then at that point, since both 210 and 211,
we had everybody except the chauffeurs, who we hadn't
accounted for, the captain of 211 wanted to go find his
chauffeur, but they had parked on the east side, so we
went over by on the Church Street side.  So that's how
we headed back that way to go to find 211's rig and see
if their chauffeur was all right.
          We were able to finally -- took us a while to
walk over, get down that way, and we found 211's rig
and the 211 recall guys.  They said that their
chauffeur was injured, but he was all right.  He ended
up with a broken arm, and he was in a bit of shock, but
he would be all right.
          So then we were working with the 211 guys,
and the recall, and the nozzle man from 210.  I was
still concerned about the chauffeur from 210.  I
thought I heard his voice on the radio at one point
that he was working with somebody pumping water, and so
I was pretty sure he was alive, but we wanted to verify
that.
K. DUGGAN
15
          So we walked back towards where 210's rig
was.  So we went back north again, went all the way
back maybe up to Murray Street, came back around, and
then came back down West Street.  We actually ran into
the 210 guys from the 210 recall and found the 210
chauffeur, and it was good that we found him, because
he thought that we were gone, and we thought -- I
thought he was still alive, because I thought I heard
his voice on the radio, but he didn't think we were
alive.  He thought we had gone in.
          So once we found him, and then we were able
to -- everyone was all right.  We realized that
everyone from 210 was all right, and that's when we
started getting reports of how many other companies
were missing.  207 was missing.  226 was missing, in
the 31 battalion, and I heard -- I had run into guys, a
couple of guys from 1 engine, who had been in the north
tower, and then I got a report afterwards that
Lieutenant Desperito from one engine didn't make it,
and I heard Father Mike hadn't made it, and I heard
Captain Brethel, who I had seen that day, he didn't
make it.
          The next day I found out about Mike Weinberg
K. DUGGAN
16
who was off duty, that he didn't make it, and Steve
Belson as well, and Orio Palmer, the chief of the 7th
battalion, but it was really -- after the collapses, we
never operated.
          We were standing fast, and we helped out some
company hook up to a standpipe somewhere.  119 was
throwing some water on it, but when we went back, they
already had some machinery in there.  It was just
weird.
          So then we just spent -- after I made it with
210, we just spent the rest of the time looking to see
who else we could find, and digging or anything, and
that was it.  But then sometime that night, I guess
around midnight, we started heading back to Brooklyn.
And that's about it.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Okay, Kevin, thanks.
     That's the conclusion of the interview.  It's 146
     p.m.
File No. 9110346
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         FIREFIGHTER SEAN BROWN
   Interview Date:  December 14, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          I am Battalion Chief Robert Burns, safety
     battalion, New York City Fire Department,
     conducting an interview with --
          FIREFIGHTER BROWN:  Firefighter Sean Brown,
     Class 6, Engine 16.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  This is in regards to
     the events of September 11, 2001.
     Q.   If you would, Sean, in your own words, just
tell us what happened that day.
     A.   Well, about 0845 hours, the morning of
September 11, 2001, just about to come off tour.
Lieutenant mentioned to me that might be staying a
little later than usual today, due to the fact of a
report of a plane hitting the north tower of the World
Trade Center, and the lieutenant said to start gearing
up.
          Approximately at 0850 hours, 16 was called,
was called first due on the third alarm.  At that
point, myself, Ronnie Cifu, Lieutenant Mickey Kross,
Firefighter Paul Lee, Firefighter Timmy Marmion,
Firefighter Pete Felluca and myself, Sean Brown,
firefighter, Grade 6, responded to the scene.
     BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Today's date is
December 14, 2001.  The time is 12:07 p.m.
S. BROWN
3
          We arrived via Church Street, tried to make
the left turn onto Liberty Avenue, but could not.
Liberty Street, excuse me.  We could not gain access to
the south tower, so we ended up backing up, staying on
Church, and at that point, that was about 0900 hours.
          When we started to back out, back from
Liberty Street to Church, due to we couldn't gain
access, the second plane hit the south tower, showering
debris everywhere.  So we proceeded northbound onto
Church and ended up parking the rig on Park Place and
making our way southbound towards the north tower,
which would be Building 1.
          So we made entry to the World Trade Center
with our roll-ups and extra cylinders, and we at that
point went into the lobby, where they were just setting
up the command post, and that would be approximately
ten after nine.
          At that point, we were met by Ray Downey,
Chief Ganci, Commissioner Feehan, and Father Judge and
Tommy Von Essen, the commissioner.  We were then teamed
up with Engine 1, asked to proceed up to the 23rd Floor
in order to set up communications.
          We were with a couple of ESU cops, and one of
the -- I would say officers from the Port Authority, so
S. BROWN
4
our orders were to go up with engine one with three
roll-ups, extra cylinders, and set up communications,
and then proceed up to the 70th Floor.
          We were warned that whoever was on the nozzle
that day would be sucked out of the -- possibility of
being sucked out of the building, but they said it
would be about an hour walk up, but our main job was to
set up communications.
          We were on the 23rd Floor, set up
communications, when we heard a rumble.  I would say we
were on the 23rd for about five to ten minutes.  The
building shook.  Lights went out.  Asked my officer
if -- you know, what happened, and he thought maybe the
top of the building got blown off.
          I turned to him and I said, "What do we do?"
And some chief appeared.  Don't know who the chief
was.  Chief from the department appeared, said, "Start
making your way out of the building.  The south tower
just collapsed.  A third plane is coming towards the
north tower."
          At that point, we gathered up all our gear
and were ordered to leave the roll-ups and start
proceeding downward.
          At that point, the team became separated.  We
S. BROWN
5
were all together.  A minute later everybody was
separated, so it was myself and Firefighter Felluca.
We started to head downstairs, and at that point
Lieutenant Kross wasn't with us, became separated from
us, so I ran -- we were at the 19th at that point, ran
back up to 23rd to look for him, but to no avail.
Radioed him.  Couldn't get him.
          So we started to head down.  We ran into
another officer from a Manhattan company that knew
Lieutenant Kross, said he was starting to head down.
We proceeded downward, ran into 110 truck.  That was
the first company from Brooklyn we ran into, told them
what we heard, and then we heard a transmission over
the radio.
          The Maydays started coming in to vacate the
north tower.  So as we started going down, we started
running into Brooklyn companies and telling them to --
that we were told to vacate the building.
          At that point, we proceeded down.  Most of
the civilians -- we didn't see any civilians at that
point.  It was mainly firefighters.  Made it down to
the lobby.  There were about maybe 30 firefighters that
were with us.  Made it to the lobby, and the lobby was
like a war zone.  All the windows were blown out, and
6
proceeded to start walking north, and the building was
a little listed when we came out, and we made it to the
corner of West and Vesey when the building came down.
That was myself, and Firefighter Tim Marmion and
Firefighter Pete Felluca.
          At that point, attention was called upon me
to go back and get -- there was a chief that they
pulled out, so I ran over to grab that chief, and
proceeded to move to pull him towards the ambulance.
We got him the help he needed.
          I have medical training, so I figured I would
do my best to help him out, and put him in the
ambulance.  Then the building totally collapsed, and I
would say I was on West and Barclay.  The guys from the
company were on West and Vesey.
          I radioed to the company, and they -- their
precise words were, "Run, run for your life," and me,
the chief and some ESU cop that jumped in to help me
dragged him to an ambulance, put him in an ambulance,
took off and proceeded to get caught in the dust
cloud.
          Had all my gear on, had my hood on, and I
S. BROWN
the command post wasn't there.
          We proceeded out onto West Street and
S. BROWN
7
still was wearing my mask at the time of the dust
cloud.  Call it luck, as you may, chief.  Can't tear it
off my back, though.  It's free.
          Proceeded to realize before I got hit with
the cloud I was walking northbound on West, and I was
about West and Barclay, proceeded to keep walking west,
and got caught in the cloud and ran into one of the
chief's that got caught in the cloud, but didn't
have -- he was so far back from the scene, didn't
figure he'd get caught in the dust cloud, so he didn't
have his mask, and helped him out, pulled him out of
the scene, too.
          So we shared some air, and at that point
after the dust cleared we went back and started
looking.  I got on the radio and started looking for my
team and ended up meeting back at Vesey and West where
we originally were together, and after that was just
all started looking for people.  That's it.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Great, Sean.  Thanks
     for the interview.  The time is 12:16 p.m.
File No. 9110347
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER SIDNEY PARRIS
   Interview Date:  December 14, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          I am Battalion Chief Robert Burns, safety
     battalion of the New York City Fire Department.
     I'm conducting an interview with --
          FIREFIGHTER PARRIS:  Firefighter Parris, 1st
     Grade, Engine 21.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  With regards to the
     events of September 11, 2001.
     Q.   If you would, just tell us in your own words
what happened on that date.
     A.   We responded first on the 6th alarm, and we
loaded up extra bottles, everything we think we might
need, extra Scott bottles and oxygen, in case there
were a lot of injured members and pedestrians.
          We left quarters.  We got downtown in the
vicinity of the World Trade Center.  We tried to get as
close as possible to supply the building, supply the
siamese.  Came down West, and I made a left onto Vesey
Street, and I was -- I parked the rig by a fire hydrant
in front of the post office, and supplied the World
Trade Center across the street right near West and
Vesey.
          I was standing on the corner of West and
Parris
     BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Today's date is
December 14, 2001.  The time is 1:19 a.m.
Parris
3
Vesey by the post office as the company went to the
command post.  There we saw 28 engine, and I think it
was 33 engine.  Their pumpers were in the same
vicinity, and the three chauffeurs were supplying the
siamese in that particular intersection.
          After supplying the building, I was listening
to the transmissions and standing at that corner.  We
began to just see people jumping left and right
constantly, two-minute interval, maybe a minute and a
half.
          After that, FBI agent came down the block.
He identified some landing gear that was in front of
our rig, asked me to make sure no pedestrians came down
the block to interfere with any type of metals and
debris that were there, because they were trying to
identify to put the pieces back together for the
plane.
          At that particular time, one member from here
that was detailed to 7 truck had just come down,
because 7 truck left before he got to their quarters.
He took my Scott bottle out of the cab at one of the
compartments, and from there I left West and Vesey, the
actual corner, I left there by the parking garage, to
close the compartment that he left open and to put my
Parris
4
shoes on the rig.
          At that particular time, I saw another FBI
agent come by, who was starting to log some of the
things.  He was on his transmission, talking to
whoever.  They told me that another plane was in the
area, and we thought that -- the chauffeurs -- some of
the guys that were out in the street thought it was a
third plane.
          At that particular time, I walked to the
corner of Church, because I heard the plane, but I
couldn't see anything.  Afraid it was going to hit the
same part of the twin tower and make it topple and
start a domino effect.  As I got to the corner of
Church and Vesey, that's when the building, the south
tower, came down right on the corner, and from that
point on, it was like mayhem for me.
          I ran towards the Brooklyn Bridge, in that
vicinity, just running.  I got maybe about three, four
blocks.  It was difficult for me to run, and I was
slowing down, and a plain clothes cop, police officer,
was running by, grabbed my turnout coat and was telling
me to keep running.
          From that point on, I saw someone open a
door, and we just dove inside the door.  After the dust
Parris
5
settled, came outside, and I heard transmissions from
21 engine standpipe, the guy that had the control.  I
heard him calling, but he couldn't hear my
transmissions to him, so I was making my way back to
the scene, and I was hearing a lot of members.
          I heard 39 chauffeur.  I heard him calling
his unit.  And 16 truck, he was getting no feedback.
In trying to make my way back, I can't remember what
street we were on, but it was a bunch of cars, buses,
mail trucks, Fire Department, all types of vehicles
that was on fire before you can actually make it to the
scene, so there was no pressure, no hydrant pressure.
          The responding companies that were coming in,
we started breaking windows or trimming windows to see
if the buildings had a system that was already fed
where we can get a line off of it, get some kind of
pressure to get closer to the scene.  We had to get
past these cars.
          At that point, it just looked like a war
zone, and I was -- can't draw back that much of who I
saw or where I saw them.  People thought that I was
missing at one point for a long time.  It was some
truck coming from Brooklyn.  I don't know if it was 101
truck said he heard that I was one of the missing, and
Parris
6
they were looking for me, and he sent me to another
command post that was -- when they changed it and put a
command post down by the Brooklyn Bridge, and told me
just report there to let members know that -- and the
chief in charge of the command post that I was still
here.
          I got back to -- when we outted the car
fires, I got back to the actual scene, and just as we
got back there, I think was with Lieutenant Curran from
9 MetroTech, and the building's second tower started to
come down, and we had to run again.
          Then we made it back after the second tower
collapsed, and again we were helping with the pumping
line and everything with the cars and debris, trying to
get closer to the scene.  After that was just digging,
you know, and just seeing other guys come in.
          I was seeing people -- I thought I was seeing
guys there because people were coming and asking you,
you know, other members, and PD was coming down, has
family on the job, and asking you if you saw so and so,
because they saw your unit on your helmet, knowing that
they were working that battalion and whatever and
figured we'd run in together and asking if you saw a
family member or friend.
Parris
7
          I thought I saw quite a few guys that I saw,
but not thinking, we were just at a funeral in Staten
Island, not even -- I don't even know if it was a week
ago, so I thought I saw these guys there where these
guys were lost.  So it was all -- I don't know if you
call it shell shocked or what, but it was quick for me,
because I was outside, but it was late, much later on
in the day before I hooked up with anybody from my
unit.
          The backup, I believe, was Jimmy Foley.  He
had a radio, because just recently we started carrying
radios for the backup, and I couldn't hear -- I didn't
hear any response from Jimmy.  I don't know if he was
giving any transmissions, but Mike Burn was the only
guy I heard, and Mike couldn't hear me.  The captain I
couldn't hear.
          That was it for the guys from this company.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Great.  Thanks for
     the interview.  The time is 28 after, and the
     count number is 65.
File No. 9110348
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER ROBERT CHYRIWSKI
   Interview Date:  December 14, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
R. CHYRIWSKI
2
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Today's date is
December 14, 2001.  The time is 2:51 p.m.  I'm
Battalion Chief Robert Burns, Safety Battalion, New
York City Fire Department, conducting an interview
with --
          FIREFIGHTER CHYRIWSKI:  Firefighter Robert
Chyriwski of Engine Company 3.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  -- in regards to the
events of September 11, 2001.
     Q.   If you would, Rob, in your own words, tell us
what happened on that day.
     A.   Okay.  That day, of course, we're all sitting
in the kitchen and then I see the news come on and
something has hit No. 1 World Trade.  Before you know
it, we get the call to ride down there.  Knowing that
it was a high-rise building -- and on the assignment we
notice, you know, we had the high-rise unit in quarters
and it wasn't on the ticket -- I merely got on the
phone to call the dispatcher.  I said do you want us to
take the high-rise unit?  In all this madness that
might have been going on in the command center at the
dispatcher's office, they said take everything you
got.
          So we automatically just started riding down,
R. CHYRIWSKI
3
and on our way down we heard over the radio the staging
area will be on West Street.  So right around when I
hit Canal Street and Varick, I headed down West
Street.  I parked on West Street.  The guys got out.  I
wanted to get in better position by 1 World Trade
because we had gotten there before the second plane had
hit 2 World Trade.  So in the whole madness of things,
I tried to reposition the rig and tried to get a
hydrant.  So I tried further down West Street, which
I'm probably right around across from the hotel, the
Marriott, when I hear this loud noise, this crash.
That's when the second plane hit Tower 2.
          So I managed to turn around and head back up
north towards 1 World Trade, not knowing what had
happened, that it was a plane that hit.  But upon
meeting up with my members on West Street by 1 World
Trade, I was told that another airplane hit 2 World
Trade.  Right then and there I knew we were under
attack.
          Chief Ganci wanted to clear out the -- I
guess it was the bike path or pedestrian walkway,
whatever, just to line up all ambulances because he
thought there was just going to be hundreds of
casualties.  I had to reposition the fire truck at
R. CHYRIWSKI
4
least two times, and by doing so I ended up further
north and west and the truck ended up by 3 World
Financial Center.  We also had the high-rise unit with
us and that ended up being parked under the pedestrian
bridge that crosses over West Street that links 6 World
Trade with 3 World Financial Center.  So it was
directly underneath there.
          Then 39 Engine, which has high-rise two, they
pull up.  So they pull up close to our truck and they
were kind of like in the scuffle trying to position
rigs.  Chief Ganci was telling them to move here
because he wanted to make a clear way for ambulances.
I ended up hooking up with the chauffeur from 39 Engine
because he was high-rise, too, and we kind of like
worked together with our equipment, and one thing led
to the next.  We were just standing there waiting for
orders.  Engine 3 was pretty much still waiting on what
news to hear from the Chief, what they're going to use,
what type of equipment.
          I took a walk over to the high-rise unit to
try to set things up to pull the ramp out because we
had the bottles in there and that's the only way that
you really get the heavy stuff out, the cylinders.
Then I just look up at 1 World Trade and see what's
R. CHYRIWSKI
5
going on and it was just like it seemed hopeless, like
what can we possibly do with the people just falling
out of the windows left and right and not knowing how
we can get this equipment up there.
          Then I look and I see Mayor Giuliani and Von
Essen and Nigro and a whole entourage walking south.  I
don't know exactly where they were going, but I saw
them.  Then I went back to 3 Engine, which I said was
by 3 World Financial Center, and I was with the
chauffeur from 39 Engine just waiting to find out what
we would do.  One thing led to the next and my company,
3 Engine, came back and they didn't get an assignment
yet.
          Then I see Captain Danny Brethel.  He needed
a face piece for his mask because, I guess, within the
scuffle of getting out that morning.  I went into the
rig engine and gave him a face piece and that's the
last I saw of him.
          Another one of my members was detailed to 26
Engine.  He was like an extra man.  He jumped on a rig
and he didn't have a mask.  So he came up to me and I
gave him my chauffeur's mask so he can go operate, and
he ended up hooking with 12 Truck because he missed 26
Engine going in.  His name was Adam Mazy.
R. CHYRIWSKI
6
          I guess one thing led to the next.  We were
just standing there looking at all this chaos going on,
the two towers just burning, and before you know it,
I'm just hearing this loud roar and I look up and I
just see this big cloud coming down.  That was when 2
World Trade started to come down.  People were just
saying run, run.  So I just took off.
          I started running north and then I head west
down Vesey Street, and I guess I ran down until I got
to North End.  There was another block and I started
running north again, and luckily I was able to beat out
the whole dust cloud.  I didn't get enveloped in it.
          It seemed, when everything just calmed down,
I started walking back, and at that point I thought I
had lost the guys from 3 because I thought they might
have been in there, or wherever they were, they didn't
get out.  But luckily we hooked up back on Vesey
Street.  They were looking for me.  I was looking for
them.  We met and at that point we were told by the
Chief from 6th Battalion, I can't remember his name,
that everybody just retreat to the River Terrace, on
Vesey Street and the River Terrace, everybody just go
there.
          Pretty much we stayed there and we were
R. CHYRIWSKI
7
helping out victims.  Victims were coming in.  Ferries
were coming in, taking the injured to Jersey.  We were
helping with the civilians and firefighters, helping
them move along the way, getting on these ferries, and
the next thing you know, Tower 1 collapses, it's on its
way down, and at that point everything just seemed
hopeless, the way you felt.
          Then we just started walking further north.
We were all together.  Engine 3, our company was
together, and we walked to Stuyvesant High School, and
that's pretty much where we ended up for the rest of
the day.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Okay.  That concludes
our interview.  Thanks, Rob.  The time is 2:59 p.m.
File No. 9110349
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
          CAPTAIN DAVID LOPER
 Interview Date:  December 13, 2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
2
                       Loper
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Today's date
     is December 13, 2001, at approximately 0845
     hours.  My name is Chief Lakiotes of the
     safety command.  I am here interviewing
     Captain David Loper of Engine 210, in regards
     to the events of September 11, 2001.
     Q.   David, if you would, just take me through
what happened that day, as far as your experience.
     A.   Right from the response?
     Q.   Yes.
     A.   We were in quarters and we got the ticket
to respond to the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel to be part
of a task force that was being formed to send over
to the World Trade Center.  So we were responding
and as we were going down by the waterfront, I don't
know exactly the street that is, by Brooklyn
Heights, underneath the promenade, I could see the
north tower burning on whatever it was, 10 floors,
15 floors and I remember just being overwhelmed,
trying to figure out what we were going to do when
we got there.  I just couldn't figure it out.  Every
time you size up a situation, you can come up with
some kind of a plan, but I couldn't on this
particular case.
3
north tower that I saw what I thought looked like a
seagull in the distance almost and it went into the
south tower and the south tower exploded in a huge
fire ball.  I just told my chauffeur, "Stop for a
minute.  Stop the rig."  And he just slammed the
brakes and we just looked and it didn't strike me as
to what happened.  I still thought -- I said to him,
at that point, "The gas tanks exploded from the
plane."  That's what I thought it was at that point.
It wasn't until afterwards that I realized it was a
whole second plane at that time.  And I didn't
realize that until a couple of days later.  It just
didn't make sense to me.
     Anyway, I said, "Let's get out of here."  By
the time we got down to the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel,
they had tried to clear a lane, although there were
some cars in the way still, but there were several
trucks and engines, whatever, at that scene and by
the time we got there I think another one or two
engines came in behind us and I said, "Let's go."
We went in as a convoy.
     I don't know the companies that were there.  I
know 279 was behind us, because they ended up
                  Loper
Anyway, it's then that I was looking at the
                                                 4
passing us when we got through the tunnel.  It took,
I would say, a good 15 minutes to get through the
tunnel.  There were cars in the way.  A battalion
called about a pregnant woman that was going to give
birth and we got out of the rig and looked.  We
couldn't find the battalion or the car, so who
knows.  I don't know what happened there.  We got
through.  When we got through finally to the other
side, there was a lot of debris and the dust and
stuff and everything from the plane smashing into
the building and the traffic stopped.  We didn't
know why at that time, but we figured they were
getting directions, but I think it was more probably
because of the parts of the building and the body
parts and everything that were all around.
     One of my guys got out of the rig for some
reason.  I was yelling at him, "Get back in,"
because the convoy started to move.  Before he could
get in, 279 passed us so we just followed them in
and we took a hydrant in the vicinity of Liberty and
the West Side Highway.  I'm not exactly sure where
it was, but it was in that vicinity where we took a
hydrant.  It was in the center median or to the left
side maybe over on the west side of the West Side
Loper
                                                 5
Highway.  I would guess it would be just before the
pedestrian bridge in that World Financial Center,
Dow Jones Oppenheimer.  I think in that area is
where we took a hydrant.
     We got out of the rig and there was a torso up
against the hydrant.  My chauffeur said, "Cap, come
over here.  I don't know what to do."  I told him,
"Cover it."  I think that's what he did.  He covered
it with a blanket.  He moved it a little bit,
covered it with a blanket and then hooked up to that
hydrant.
     At that point I told him, just stay with the
rig.  Hook up to the hydrant and do what he had to
do there as far helping other companies hookup to
hydrants or whatever.  I didn't have any idea what
they were going to do, but I just told him to stay
with the rig and try not to get close to the
building.  Stay on this side of the highway, unless
he had to hook up and got orders to hook up to some
kind of a standby.  But he would have known that.
He's a good chauffeur.
     Me and the other three guys got out.  We each
grabbed -- I had the guys take a roll-up and an
extra Scott bottle.  I grabbed a standpipe bag and
Loper
                                                 6
an extra bottle and we grabbed four roll-ups instead
of three and grabbed an extra length of hose along
with the extra bottle, and we were heading up West
Street or whatever, West Side Highway, and we ran
into Chief Barbara, who was standing actually like
on the center median.  Because I remember looking up
at him and he just asked the company.  I said,
"Engine 210, part of the task force."  And he said,
"Go past the second pedestrian bridge.  There is a
command post for the north tower.  I want you on the
north tower."
     So we proceeded up the highway.  I told the
guys -- actually, we stayed all the way to the west
side.  There were pieces of the building coming down
and I kept looking up.  I told the guys, "Look up.
Just look down to see where you're going once in a
while, but keep looking up in case something comes
down.  And if you have to, just run.  You know, just
scream for everybody, but just run if you have to."
     So we stayed all the way to the west side of
the West Side Highway, as close to the buildings as
we could, away from the debris that was falling off
the building, made our way past that pedestrian
bridge and we hit the command post.  But there is
Loper
                                                 7
two pedestrian bridges, so I'm a little confused as
to where we actually stopped.  I know we were at the
command post closest to 1 World Trade Center, the
north tower.  I know that for a fact, that we were
up there.
     We reported.  There was a Lieutenant there with
the board, the set up, as far as the -- I'm losing
track as to what that's called now.
     Q.   The command board?
     A.   The command post board, right.  So there
was a command post there and I reported in and
things were a little bit crazy, as can be expected.
People were like, "We're all reporting in."  And I
saw a friend of mine that I was a fireman with up in
the Bronx, Captain Eddie Metcalf, and I remember the
guy handing him -- I don't know what Eddie was doing
there.  I don't think he was with a company.  I
don't know if he was surplus or -- I really don't
know what he was up to, but all I know is the guy
handed him a pad and pencil and said, "You take care
of the companies coming in.  Write them down and
give them to me."
     So when I heard that, I heard that actually
being said, I said, "Eddie, it's David, 210."  He
Loper
                                                 8
said, "I gotcha, Dave."  So he put me down on the
sheet.  I turned around to the three guys and I
said -- there was probably two or three engines, a
truck.  I don't know who else was there.  There were
other people milling around.  Probably some
civilians.  We were in front of, I'm guessing, 3
World Financial Center, American Express building.
Although, I can't say for sure if that's where we
were.  Because when we came -- I'll get to this
later, but when we came through the building, we ran
down the loading dock and came out.  I don't
remember another building being behind us, but there
could have been, because I was kinds of confused at
the time.
     But anyway, I grabbed the three guys and told
them, because they had told us to stand fast, it's
going to be a while before you go in.  So I said,
"All right."  So I grabbed the three guys.  It was a
cool morning, but with all your turnout gear it was
hot.  So I says, "Listen.  Put all the equipment
here in a pile.  Take your coats off and just, you
know, it's not going to take a second to put your
coats on and we'll go in when we get orders."
     So that's what they did.  And then I saw other
Loper
                                                 9
companies doing that, too.  Each company was staying
in like a little pile of stuff and staying by and
taking their coats off.  I remember taking my coat
off and I had it around my arm and I loosened up my
pants just to -- because I was very warm.
     From that point they were back about probably
30 feet towards the loading dock area of that
building, and I stayed up near the command post.
That's when we kept just looking up, kept sizing up
the building and then the jumpers started.  I
remember seeing 105 Truck, come to think of it,
because I remember Vinny Brunton being there,
speaking of him today.  But I do remember him being
around.  So 105 Truck must have been there.  But I
don't know happened to them afterwards.  They must
have got orders to go in.
     Anyway, we were sizing the building.  That's
when the jumpers started and you just didn't seem --
you didn't realize what it was at first until they
started hitting and then I went back and the guys
are looking.  I said, "Listen, don't look up.  You
know, there is no sense in looking up and seeing
this."  Because they just kept coming and coming.  I
don't know what good that did, because you could
Loper
                                                10
hear them hitting, so it was still not pleasant to
say the least.
     So we kept that up anyway.  I went back to the
commands post after talking to guys, kept them
together.  Went back up and there is a crowd of
people and everything, still waiting to see what we
were going to do.  Then all of a sudden there was
like a loud -- almost like a rushing sound, a roar,
and we looked up and we could see it looked like an
implosion and the building kind of went in and out
and kind of like shook and I remember like 20 or 30
guys, whatever it was, all there at the command
post.  A lot of them in front of me pulled towards
West Street.  We were looking up and then this thing
started coming down and nobody ran.  I could just
remember that.  Even myself, I remember being
hypnotized by this thing and just looking up at it
and then finally, thank God, somebody yelled, "Run."
And we took off and I think depending on which way
you ran determined whether you lived or died.
Because I think some guys that were there probably
didn't make it.
     Anyway, I ran to the loading dock area and all
my guys went the same way.  I tripped over some gear
Loper
                                                11
initially as I first started running that was there
or it could have been a curb.  I don't know what it
was, but I tripped over something, fell, hit my
head.  That dazed me a little bit.  I couldn't get
up right away.  I rolled over to see what was going
on and like 15 or 20 guys like trampled me and I
think a couple of them did try to help me, but it
was just the push was there and they couldn't.
     Somebody might have even fell over me as we
were going and they all like kind of trampled me and
then the debris cloud came, so then all bets were
off there.  Nobody knew where anybody was.  I got up
again just as the debris cloud was enveloping us and
I tried to run and again I tripped over something
and I fell and I twisted my back and knee.  This
time I stayed down for just a couple of seconds.  I
said, I'm having difficulty breathing now, because
it was like a funnel.  All the smoke went right down
into this loading dock and I remember it was just
like having your head stuck in a pail of sand,
trying to breathe sand.  And I says, "You know, I'm
gonna die if I don't do something about this."  So I
rolled and I found a wall finally and the only way I
could orient myself is I heard a lot of voices on
Loper
                                                12
one side of me.  I said, "That must be to the rear,
because everybody went that way.  So the front must
be this way."  And I knew all the equipment was laid
on the ground there.  So I took a shot and I
crawled along the wall towards the front and I
started going up.  That's when I knew I was going in
the right direction.  I started going up the loading
ramp.  And I didn't really hit too much large chunks
of debris.  There was the dust and stuff you could
feel and all that stuff and you're breathing it.
     I finally found three Scott air masks and, of
course, needing to breathe now I was elated by that,
but the one mask was upside down and dopey me didn't
purge it because I'm not thinking.  I throw it on my
face and got this -- everything.  I mean it was like
solid.  And now I'm coughing, I'm choking, I'm
pulling solid crap out of me and I'm like, "That was
real smart."  So I finally got the mask purged,
cleaned out.  I put it on and then I could breathe a
little bit better.
     I grabbed the other two masks, crawled back to
where I heard voices.  I found one guy huddled like
in a corner.  I gave him a mask.  I said, "Put this
on.  We gotta try to get out of here."  I found
Loper
0
                                                13
another guy and I said, "Put this on."  And by that
time somebody was saying they might have found a
door in the rear.  So we just started crawling to
the rear.  I still couldn't see anything.  I found a
rope on the ground level and I knew or I didn't
know, but I thought immediately that somebody put
like a search rope or something, a personal rope.
So I says, "I found a rope."  And I just started
screaming and a couple of guys came.  We found the
rope and we started following it and it led out this
door and there must have been lighting on there,
because I could see like a glow up in the ceiling
level and we bumped into some people and I heard
somebody saying -- somebody came down the stairs and
said, "Somebody's got a key." Somebody from the
building actually came down into the smoke, unlocked
the back door, and that's where we got out.  We got
out through the rear door and it was still -- you
could see people at that point.  That was to the
west of the building and the breeze was coming off
the river, so that actually was clearing faster than
to the east.  So when I got out I had blood
running -- I remember feeling my forehead because I
had a big lump from where I fell and I had blood
Loper
                                                14
coming down my forehead and I said, "Now I gotta
find my guys."  Which I didn't even know if I was
gonna be able to do that at this point.  But I did.
Two of the guys waited for me or were in the general
vicinity.  I don't know if they actually waited for
me, but they didn't go too far.  That was Casey, who
went back to Ladder 127, and Duggan, who went back
to Engine 1 on the rotation just recently.  But
those two guys were there and I gave them a big hug.
Then I was looking for Tommy Carroll from Engine
219, and I told Duggan and Casey, I said, "Let's
start working north a little bit away from this."
Because now that was the south tower that collapsed.
I says, "This north one is going.  It's just a
matter of when it's gonna go."  I said, "Let's get a
little further away, because I don't know if it's
gonna come back this way."  You know?  So we started
walking north and when I felt that we were far
enough away, we went through like a park by the
waterfront and stuff, when we were far enough away,
there was a guy with a cell phone and he let Casey
or Duggan use his cell phone to try to call home.
     And I said, "listen.  You guys stay here.  I'm
just gonna take a quick lap and see if I could find
Loper
                                                15
Carroll.  So that's what I did.  I went south and
from looking at this, I probably went behind 2 World
Financial Center.  I went to about that far and we
were over by 4 World Financial Center, I would
imagine, at this point.  I think we ended up going
down North End and then down Vesey Street is what we
ended up doing.
     But anyway, I made it to like behind 2 World
Financial Center and I couldn't find Tommy Carroll
anyway.  So I says, "I gotta go back to the other
two guys anyway."  So that's what I did.  I went
back.  They were waiting for me.  As I was heading
back towards them I was some where behind Winter
Garden or 3 World Financial Center.  Somewhere
heading back towards those guys, that's when the
north tower collapsed.  And it was the same thing,
the same noise.  So as soon as I heard it this time,
I knew it.  I just saw those two guys and I just
yelled "run" and we just started running up towards
Vesey Street.  And we came back up towards Vesey
Street towards West Street and then headed north on
West Street.  I says, "we gotta get a couple of more
blocks up north so we can regroup and see who we can
find to see what we're gonna do here."
Loper
                                                16
     As we went up there, there were guys, a lot of
guys just walking around like zombies.  I remember
Chief Collins from the 31 Battalion.  A lot of guys
were just in shock and stuff, as we were.  Anyway,
we got up there and we found a group of guys that
were kind of dazed and stuff and we hung out with
them right on West Street.  There were a lot of
ambulances by this time all lined up.  I remember
looking over and seeing Mike Talleska.  I didn't
know at the time, but he was with Safety.  And there
were a couple of EMS guys taking care of him.  I
don't think it was our EMS.  I think it was a
private Jewish ambulance.  I went over.  I told my
two guys, I said, "Stay here with Chief Collins."
There were like three or four other firemen.  I
said, "Stay here.  I'm gonna go over and see what's
up with this guy.  I know him from up in the Bronx
and up in that area."
     So I went over and I said, "Mike, what's going
on?"  And he was in tough shape.  He was mumbling
that he was buried under the north tower and that he
climbed down out of the south tower.  I can't
remember what he said, but he said he climbed down
and he made it to this point and he thought he broke
Loper
                                                17
his leg and these guys weren't taking care of him.
So I tried calming him down and they were going to
put him in the ambulance, but the ambulance was
blocked in by trucks, ambulances, everything.  This
ambulance was going nowhere and Mike was pretty
upset about things that he wasn't getting out of
there.  He was talking about car bombs going off and
he got me really wired up with that kind of talk
too.  I started looking around saying, he said,"
look for the vans.  They're gonna start blowing."
     Anyway, I says, "Mike, what do you want?"  He
says, "You gotta get me out of here, Dave."  So
that's what I did.  I grabbed him.  I told the two
guys, they were only about 50 feet away, Kevin and
Danny, I said, "Stay here.  I gotta get this guy up
to an ambulance where he can get out of here and
then I'll come back."  And that's what happened.
These EMS people didn't want to release him, but we
just took the foot brace off that they put on and
threw it in the ambulance.  I put his boot back on
and took him around my shoulders and he hobbled up.
We kept hobbling up a couple of blocks.  We finally
found an ambulance that was free that could take him
away and they started treating him.  And I turned
Loper
                                                18
around to go and I collapsed at the back of the
ambulance and I don't know whether it was from
hitting my head.  I think I ended up with a mild
concussion from when I originally hit my head.  But
the next thing I remember is I woke up in
Presbyterian Hospital and Mike was there.  That's
basically all I remember.  Do you want to know what
happened at the hospital?
     Q.   No.  That's not necessary.
     A.   I don't really remember too much about
that anyway.
     Q.   Besides any brethren at the command post,
did you ever see anybody else?
     A.   I said Eddie Metcalf I saw.  Yeah, I saw
211, Engine 211.  Because we're in the same quarters
with them now, with our quarters being redone.  So
Charlie Clark, the Captain of 211 was there, and his
guys.  And I saw them afterwards actually behind and
he told me he saw Carroll.  Carroll was in front of
him getting out.  They got out before me, because I
went back to get those Scott masks and stuff.  So
those guys all got out before me.  I was one of the
last guys out.  And he says he was in front of me.
I don't know where he went, but that relieved me a
Loper
                                                19
little, but not too much.  And now I was worried
about my chauffeur too, because he was down by the
south tower.  So I was concerned about him.
     Q.   When you went to that command post, is
that where Chief Ganci was and Chief Feehan?
     A.   I don't remember seeing them.
     Q.   At the command post?
     A.   I might have seen them, but it's just that
I can't remember.
     Q.   Chief Turi?
     A.   I don't know what Chief Turi looks like.
I would have to see a picture of him.  I don't
remember seeing him.  Chief Ganci I would know and
Feehan I would know, but I just can't remember.
There were guys there, but I think I was looking up
more than anything and I didn't take the scope of
the ground area.  All I remember is -- I think it
was the guy that wears the half glasses in the
command post company, with the mustache.
Q. Fieldcom?
     A.   Fieldcom.  I'm pretty sure he's the guy
that handed Eddie Metcalf the the --
     Q.   I know who you're talking about.  A short
guy with black hair?
Loper
                                                20
     A.   Yeah.  I think it was him, because I seen
him a lot.  You know, you always seem to see him.
I'm almost positive it was him that handed -- I
could be wrong.  I know Eddie started writing all
the companies down.  And I know 105 was there and
then I don't know when they got -- they must have
walked away as I was looking up, because I didn't
really see them going.  But I remember looking down
at the building at one point and seeing firemen
going in and out.
     Q.   At the north tower?
     A.   Yes.  Yeah.  The south tower we were
removed from.  We didn't really -- we were right in
front of that north tower.  I remember being across
from the Marriott Hotel kind of.  Because as the
bodies were coming down, there was like a canopy or
whatever that they were hitting and crashing
through.
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Okay.  That
     concludes this interview at approximately
     0905.  Thank you, Dave.
Loper
File No. 9110350
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
              EVELYN VEGA
   Interview Date:  December 18, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          MS. BASTEDENBECK:  The time now is 1710
     hours.  My name is Christine Bastedenbeck.  I work
     for the New York City Fire Department.  I'm at
     Battalion 4 EMS command doing an interview
     regarding the date September 11, 2001, with the
     following individual.
     Q.   Please state your name, your rank, your
shield number and the area you work.
     A.   Hi.  My name is EMT EVELYN VEGA.  My shield
number is 5752.  I'm currently assigned to Battalion
04, Station 11.
     Q.   Ms. Vega, you were working on the morning of
September 11, 2001?
     A.   Yes, I was.  I was.
     Q.   Can you just tell me about the events that
morning?
     A.   Yes.  Okay.  My tour began at 0900 to 1700
hours, and I was on duty.  I came in, my normal
routine, to work, and I went to the locker room, and
came out, got ready, whatever, and my partner that
morning was EMT Torres.  When I came down, he was --
actually, he already had vehicle keys.  That was
vehicle 404.  He was inspecting the vehicle.
          It was about a quarter to 9 a.m.  I bumped
EVELYN VEGA
3
into one of my coworkers.  His name is EMT Bell.  He
starts also at 0900, and by the way, that morning, I
was 01 boy.  So I bumped into Bell, and he told me,
"Oh, did you hear that a plane hit the World Trade
Center?"  I said, "No, no, I don't believe you.  What
are you talking about?"  He said, "Come, come, I'll
show you.  You can see it from here."
          So I followed him.  We weren't able to see
anything.  So I just wasn't sure.  I just went in for
roll call, and I went inside, kind of ran inside to the
office, and Lieutenant Melaragno was there, and he
was -- he just threw the keys, the radios.  He was just
get out of here, get out of here, so now it was kind of
confirmed, although I wasn't, you know, a hundred
percent sure, but he was, like, get out of here.  A
plane hit the World Trade Center.
          So I just took some keys, and I gave them
back because my partner already had the stuff he needed
so I just hopped -- jumped into the driver's side, and
we just head out.  We weren't dispatched by a
dispatcher.  We just were sent out by the lieutenant,
and we just drove towards the World Trade Center.
          As I'm getting closer, I see a big hole at --
I guess it was Tower 1, World Trade Center 1, the north
4
          Then by this time, I think it was like five
minutes to 9 a.m., and we're driving, and then we
are -- I remember being on Barclay.  We're driving.  I
told my partner, "Should I make a left here onto
Broadway?" He says, "No, continue west."  I said,
"Fine."  Do I turn on Church?  He's like no.  We
looked.  He said, "No, too much commotion."
          We went straight, still continued west.  We
got to West Street.  I said, "Do I make a left here?"
He said, "Yeah, make a left here," and so I made a
left, and I pulled over at Vesey and West Street facing
south on the east side of the street on West Street.
          We jump out of the vehicle.  We put on our
safety jacket, our helmet, and we take out all
equipment, stretcher, whatever, everything, and we
start heading towards the building.
          Now, we bumped into a chief, fire chief.  I
don't know his name.  I don't recall anything.  I
just -- he was flagging us to come towards him, and so
we went towards him, and then when I assumed -- at the
time I didn't know -- but now I know that the second
EVELYN VEGA
tower.
     Q.   The first building that was struck?
     A.   Uh-huh, the first building.
EVELYN VEGA
5
plane had hit, and we looked up.  We heard it.  The
debris started falling.  People started jumping off the
building, whatever.
          So he was, like, clear the way, move your
vehicle a little north.  So we moved like a few feet
north, and I believe it was still on Vesey and West,
but on the north side of -- north corner, versus the
south corner where we were, and I moved, and I went
back towards the buildings.
          I had a few people that worked in the
building calling us that there was people in the
basement, and they needed help.  So we're debating
should we go in or not.  We decided to go in.
          We went into one World Trade Center.  We went
inside.  We went -- the elevator wasn't working.  It
was on two sublevels down.  We went down.  We left the
stretcher in the lobby, and we went down.  There was
two patients.  It was like 15 other workers.  They were
doing construction work down there.
          The patients were one female, one male, and
one had a back injury, and one had a knee or a leg
injury, fracture or whatever.  We only had one back
board.  We improvised.  We cared for these patients,
and then we rushed them out.
EVELYN VEGA
6
          We used the exit through the underground
garage that workers there assisted us with, so we got
out of there.  Before we left, one patient was taken by
the workers to help us.  They took the female patient,
and my partner went to make alignment for -- to let
them know that where we were, because, of course, we
were dispatched not by them, but by our lieutenant, so
nobody really knew where we were.  So he did that.
          Supposedly he got in contact with central,
whatever the case may be.  He came back, and we took
the second patient out, and we got out.  When we got
out, there were ambulances in the area, so they took
the patients, and we just went to our -- we left with
 -- you know, we gave the patient to the other unit and
we became -- we started walking now.
          When we exited, we were on Vesey and West in
the middle of the block between Church, between West
Broadway and West Street on Vesey, so we just started
walking together towards the ambulance.  When we got
into the ambulance, we put our equipment and whatever,
and we found out at that time that they were staging at
Vesey between West Street and North End, so I angle
parked the ambulance.
          My partner went to speak to the chief in
EVELYN VEGA
7
command or whoever the operating lieutenant that was,
you know, responsible for the triage of the commanding
area.  So I stood there, and I was trying to use my
cell phone, and I didn't get a reception.
          At this time, I didn't know we were hit by a
second plane.  I just heard on 1010 WINS that the
Pentagon was hit, and I was, like, okay, you know,
whatever, and I just stepped out of the vehicle, and I
stood behind my ambulance, and I saw a cop there trying
to use the phone.  So I started talking to him, and he
said, "Well, I can't get through." I said, "Me
neither," whatever.
          So moments after, maybe five minutes or so, I
hear a rumble, and I just look towards the east side of
the street.  I'm in the middle of the block on Vesey
between West and North End, so now I turn, and I look
east towards the corner of West and Vesey, and I see
people in blue uniforms, cops, whoever they were.  They
were running towards my way, so I didn't know what to
do, so I looked the opposite direction, and I see other
people running the same direction.
          So I just started running.  So I started
running by myself because my partner was taking care of
something else, so I just ran, left the vehicle there,
EVELYN VEGA
8
and just kept running north.  Running, running north,
and still at this time I didn't know that the second
plane was hit, and when we heard that rumble, that
noise, I didn't know that that was when the first tower
fell until I met up with another coworker.  His name is
EMT Orlando Martinez.  We stood together for the whole
way.
          There was no one else from Battalion 4.  We
just kept running north.  We kept stopping.  I was
trying to raise my partner over the radio, and all I
kept hearing was Mayday, Mayday.  We had no idea where
his partner or my partner were, so we were worried, and
no one else from our battalion was there.  So it was
out of control.
          As we were running north, and we were looking
south, we saw the smoke and everything, and then we
heard, you know, that the building had fell, whatever,
so we finally got, I guess, to -- it was West Street
and closer to Chambers, and we just stood there, and
trying to find out, you know, permission, trying to use
someone's phone.  The restaurants were open.  People
giving water at a local bar.  So we got water, and I
was trying to use the phone, but there were lines, so I
didn't use the phone.  And then we find -- we hear the
EVELYN VEGA
9
second building fell.
          So now we keep running north, because they
kept saying just run north.  So everybody was just
running, civilians, police officers, some ambulance.
We hopped in some ambulance.  We just went north,
dropped everything.  Everybody was just -- it was a
commotion going north.
          Now you have to go to Chelsea Piers.  You
have to go to Chelsea Piers.  So we didn't go to
Chelsea Piers yet.  We were still going north, and we
stopped, and then they said there was a gas leak.
Something in the air.  We got to get out of the area.
Some pollution or whatever.  So now the guy that I was
with, Orlando Martinez, he bumped into his partner, so
beautiful, I found out that my partner was looking for
me, but no sight of him.
          So now there was like a few -- like five guys
from Battalion 4, so we were feeling better about, you
know, everybody being okay.  So we started running, and
then when they announced there was, like, a gas leak, I
mean, this is all I heard, you know, people -- just
rumors running around with information, and, of course,
everywhere we stopped there was like a lieutenant, EMT
lieutenant, or a Fire Department lieutenant, or
EVELYN VEGA
10
whoever.  There was always a boss, someone telling us
what to do, where to go.
          So finally, we jumped into -- the last thing
was like that gas leak thing, and I opened the back
doors of the ambulance, and like 15 million people.
They were all EMTs, cops, transit, whatever.  They ran
inside of the back of the ambulance, and we just kept
going to Chelsea Piers.  They told us where to park,
and we just staged there.
          We stood there, and I was able -- that's when
Chelsea Piers was open.  They were helping us, giving
us water.  They let us use the phone, and I contacted
my family.  I guess this was all by eleven o'clock,
because the second building, I think, fell like 10:30,
so this whole thing by 11, I figure.
          I contacted my family, and then finally
before twelve I reunited with my partner, and then
there was another EMT.  Her name is EMT Perrin.  I
don't know her last name, but she belongs to Battalion
4, and she had just finished coming off duty, Tour 1,
so she came in, and she was doing inventory of all the
Battalion personnel, you know, who was missing or
whatever.  So it was a good thing that, you know, she
had a list that we could ask, did you speak to this
11
          So at this point, like, it was a whole bunch
of us from Battalion 4.  It was maybe a few people
missing we were worried about, but for the most part,
everybody was okay.
          Then, like, three p.m. we were relieved from
the scene, and we went back to the 911 system.
     Q.   At what point did you pick up your vehicle
and bring it uptown with you?
     A.   I never did.  My partner apparently -- I
bumped into him by twelve, I'm assuming, and he had the
vehicle, so he picked it up, because after the whole
story, I mean, after this whole thing, I found out that
instead of him -- most of them running north, they ran
west towards the water, so everybody was hanging out
there by the water.  That's why we didn't hear any more
from our battalion because that's where everybody was,
but me and Martinez, we were going north because, I
mean, that's the only way.
          I didn't even think about going through the
park out to the water.  I just went north, so he picked
up the vehicle with whoever else.  We had all the
ambulances there.  That's where they were staging.
EVELYN VEGA
one, did you bump into this one, did you have the
possibility of this one, whatever.
EVELYN VEGA
12
          So that's basically the adventure.
     Q.   Anything else you'd like to add to what you
told me so far?
     A.   No.
     Q.   That pretty much covers the day?
     A.   Yes.  Of course, that I had to work two
shifts, which is expected, 16 hours, and after we were
relieved, and we went to the 911 system, it was like
torture.  We were getting calls with people having
headaches and just stomach pains, and it was just too
much for me to handle.  I mean, just knowing what we
just went through, and how we are needed for other
things, and we have people actually dialing 911 for a
headache.  I was really bothered by that.
          A lot of our calls were on North End Street
and South End Street, which is right across from the
World Trade Center, and both buildings, of course, had
no light and no electricity, no elevators.  Nothing was
happening.
          So we were receiving calls, and we were being
dispatched to those buildings where we had to climb 30,
40 floors to get there with flashlights and all the
equipment, so that was mind-boggling, because every
time we got to these high-rises, there was no patient,
EVELYN VEGA
13
no one was there.
          I mean, everybody was evacuated, but I guess
it's part of our job, but it was just -- yeah, it was
not a good thing, you know, and then to get there, we
had to park our ambulance, like, far away from, and
then we'd have to carry everything and go through all
the rubble.
          I bumped into firefighters that were taking
out firefighters that were dead, you know, so it was
just crazy.  It was crazy, but that was it basically.
          MS. BASTEDENBECK:  Thank you very much for
     your time.  The time now is 1725 hours.  Thank you
     very much.
          MS. VEGA:  Thank you.
          MS. BASTEDENBECK:  This concludes our
     interview.
File No. 9110351
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
          Captain David Fenton
 Interview Date:  December 18, 2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
                                                 2
          MURRAY MURAD:  The time is now 1300
     hours and I'm Murray Murad of the Fire
     Department of the City of New York.  I am
     conducting an interview with --
     A.   Captain David Fenton, New York City Fire
Department, EMS Command, assigned to Division 6.
     Q.   This interview is being conducted at the
Fire Department headquarters at the Bureau of
Investigations and Trials, and this is regarding the
events of September 11, 2001.
               Captain Fenton, can you tell us in
your own words what happened that day?
     A.   Okay.  I normally worked tour 3 as a duty
captain in the South Bronx.  I was home in bed.
Nice place to be.  My wife called me and said, "You
better turn on the TV.  Something is up.  I think
you have to go to work."  So I turned on the TV and
that was right after the first tower got hit.  I
called in.  They said, "Yep, come on in."  And they
were going to leave a Suburban for me.  I drove to
Jacobi, got in the Suburban.  As I was driving over
the Throgsneck Bridge as I was -- in reference with
time, on the way in, at about 9:55, when the south
tower collapsed.
Fenton
                                                 3
     I got to Jacobi just as the north tower
collapsed at about 10:29.  It was myself, four EMT's
who I don't have a clue who they were that Jacobi
put in my Suburban.  I know they track their names
and stuff at Jacobi.  And a paramedic by the name of
Ed Bradley, we all jumped in the Suburban and down
to the Trade Center we went.  We were heading
down -- we were told by Citywide to respond to
Chambers and West and we were southbound on Chambers
at about the meat packing district, at about Little
West 12th Street, when they were in the process of
doing the rapid evacuation for the gas main.
     I saw everybody coming back at us.  We turned
around.  Most of the units were stopping there.  I
knew that there was a prestaging area set up at the
Chelsea Piers.  So as the units were stopping there,
I instructed all those units to continue on up to
the Chelsea Piers to the prestaging area where they
can be turned around and redeployed as needed.
     After making sure that all the units went up to
Chelsea, where I took my suburban and my five
people, we turned around and went back up to
Chelsea.  I was there and I saw Chief Kowalczyk and
a few other people organizing the staging area.
Fenton
                                                 4
They told me to just turn around and go right back
down again.  So I responded down West Street parking
probably just north of Warren Street and we were
parked southbound in the northbound lanes.  We got
out and we walked out to the command post that was
established at Chambers and West.  At that point the
five personnel who were with me were directed into
Stuyvesant High School to a personnel staging area
and I was directed to remain at the command post and
await orders.
     A short time after that I was instructed by
Chief Carrasquillo to report in to the Stuyvesant
High School and ensure that the personnel who are in
there were getting formed into teams for deployment,
if needed.  There were approximately five
lieutenants there and about 30 EMT's and medics
combined.  I know Lieutenant Horan was there and he
was the one I tasked with taking attendance and
forming everybody up into teams.  So there would be
at least five EMT's, one medic and one lieutenant
per team.  Also about that time there was a decision
made that the lobby of the building would be used to
treat any walk-in wounded.  They set it up as a
treatment area, which a wide variety of doctors,
Fenton
                                                 5
nurses and everybody else arrived with medical
supplies.  I don't know where they came from or who
they were.  They set up a medical clinic there.  We
assigned some of our people to assist in that area.
     Most of the stuff they were doing were eye
washes.  One thing that struck me as amazing was I
didn't see any stretcher cases.  Nobody came in on a
backboard or a stretcher.  Everybody was ambulatory.
Then later on, about twelve-ish or so, 12:30, I went
with Chief Carrasquillo and we did have a
reconnoiter of the area.  And what we were looking
for was a place to place for the tents to be set up
coming from the Parks Department to become the true
treatment area on the Riverside with Medivac access.
We found an area.  We worked it out with a Police
Officer, I believe, or maybe even a sergeant from
ESU by the name of Techie who would -- where the
cops would be landing their helicopters, where we
would be landing the Medivac helicopters.  And that
never actually came to fruition.  We didn't use it.
     Going back inside, by that time Lieutenant
Fuchs from the academy -- Kath Fuchs was there from
the academy and she started taking care of
organizing the inside of the house as the treatment
Fenton
                                                 6
area.  At which point I was redeployed by Chief
Carrasquillo back out to the command post and I
assisted in doing a variety of small tasks and
directing a few people there.
     Q.   Where was the command post again?
     A.   The command post was at the intersection
of Chambers and West, underneath an overpass.
Deputy Assistant Chief Butler was there, Chief
Carrasquillo was there and Chief Martin was there,
that I saw.  Other people coming in and out, but
they were the ones that were assigned there.
Originally I was assigned as the Fire Department
liaison to the forward Fire Chiefs and I went down
toward Ground Zero at that point, shadowing a chief.
Did what we had to do.  They then established -- a
forward command post was set up at Vesey and West,
which is where I spent a good part of the time after
that for the rest of the day just funneling the
information to the Chiefs, fire side and requests
back out to our command post at Chambers and West.
     Eventually I was relieved and I was sent back
to the command post where I was given a set of keys
and some paper and a pen and my new job was to go
down to Ground Zero and record all the ambulances
Fenton
                                                 7
that were destroyed and get the doors popped and
make sure that none of our people were still in
them.  I went down to one of the fire vehicles, got
a Halligan and I proceeded down into the south side.
First I started the north side.  There weren't too
many vehicles there.  I recorded what was there.
Most of them were open.  Then I went around to the
south side of Liberty where a large quantity of
ambulances were there.  None really of ours.  Mostly
the 911 participants.  And I proceeded with a couple
of firefighters.  We popped a few rear doors, popped
a few cabs that we couldn't see into.  I made an
account of all the vehicles that were there.  We
didn't find anybody either under them or in them.  I
went around and did the same thing on the Church
Street side to the vehicles I could get to.  There
were some vehicles that were underneath number 7
when it came down that we just couldn't get to,
because the rubble pile was shifting and most of it
was still on fire.
     The list of equipment in the vehicles were then
given back to the command post at Chambers and West
and they called in representatives from the other
911 participants, to give them their vehicles at
Fenton
                                                 8
that were in there.  So that way they could start
doing a vehicle accounting.
     Q.   How many vehicles did you estimate or did
you observe or count?
     A.   Approximately 15 to 20.
     Q.   And those were all EMS?  Fire Department?
     A.   No.  Those were ambulances.  Actually, the
majority of them were 911 participants and not
municipal ambulances.
     Q.   So you are referring to like Metrocare?
     A.   Metrocare, New York Hospital, Beekman
Downtown.
     Q.   So roughly between fifteen and twenty
ambulances?
     A.   Fifteen and twenty ambulances that I
physically entered.
     Q.   Is there anything else that you would like
to add?
     A.   No.  And then the rest of the night I
functioned pretty much as a site safety officer with
several other former SOD members.  Charlie Fraser,
Jimmy Scullion, Steve Linke, Kevin Haugh, Jeff Race.
          MURRAY MURAD:  All right.  I would like
     to thank you, Captain Fenton, for the
Fenton
                                            9
interview.  The time now is 1312 hours.  This
                  Fenton
now concludes the interview.  Thank you.
File No. 9110352
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER WILLIAM CASEY
   Interview Date:  December 17, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  The date is
     December 17, 2001.  The time is 12:18, and this is
     Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan of the safety
     battalion of the Fire Department of the City of
     New York.
          I'm conducting an interview with Firefighter
     1st Grade William Casey from Engine 21.
          The interview is taking place in the quarters
     of Engine 21.
     Q.   William, just tell us the events as you
remember them on September 11.
     A.   All right.  We were in quarters when we saw
it on the television with the plane, and I believe it
was Tower 1, the first one that got hit.
          Our captain came down the stairs.  He let us
know to start getting the bottles ready, stuff ready.
He assumed that we were going to be going shortly.
          He came down.  I think we went on fifth
alarm.  I forget what the assignment was.  So we loaded
up the rig.  As we were heading out of quarters, we
actually saw on the television the second plane hit
Tower 2, so we headed down.
          Sid Parris was our chauffeur.  We went down
Second Avenue.  I believe we were parked -- I think it
W. CASEY
3
was the corner of Vesey and -- I'm not really sure
which corner, but anyway we came around.  When we
pulled up, of course, you could see the smoke, see a
lot of stuff going on.
          We walked into Tower 1, the north tower, and
hung out in the lobby waiting for instructions on what
to do.  At that point, it was a lot of chaos.  You were
hearing jumpers.  You were hearing different things
going on.  You saw different companies.  We weren't
told what to do really.
          So then we got our instructions, and we
followed the captain by an elevator, one of the
elevator banks.  Somebody told us there was somebody
trapped in the elevator, so we opened up the doors.  We
had the rabbit tools, so we just pried it open a little
bit, and then we pulled it open ourselves, and there
was a lady in there, and we got her out.
          We then went to another embankment, because
we were with -- I believe the company -- I believe it
was 13 truck.  I'm not really sure at that time.  We
were going to go up the stairs, but we ended up --
there is an elevator would go up to the 24th Floor,
which is what we took.
          Then we started to proceed up, and I don't
W. CASEY
4
know what the stairwell number was, stairwell letter,
to the 27th Floor.
          At that point, there were different companies
up there, different people up there.  At that point, as
soon as we got up there, we all hit the ground, because
the building started shaking.  We didn't know what that
was.  We assumed it was some floors above that had
collapsed.  We weren't really told what it was.  We
found out, obviously, that it was Tower 2 that
collapsed.
          At that point, I believe it was a chief -- I
wasn't sure where he was from.  He came down from
somewhere.  He came from one of the areas on the 27th
Floor, and he told us to just get off this floor.  So
we were told to get off the floor.
          We started to proceed down the same stairwell
that we came up, and with that, our control guy was
talking to the captain, because he didn't follow us.
He wasn't coming with us right away.  So he told him,
"Yeah, yeah.  Keep going down, I'll catch up with
you," and stuff like that, because he just wanted to
make sure everybody was off the floor.
          With that, I proceeded back up.  It was on
the 24th floor.  I proceeded back up, because I said
W. CASEY
5
I'll go hang out with -- you know, I'll stay with the
captain, and this way if he needs a hand with
something.
          On my way back up, I came across a civilian
on the 26th Floor, and he was struggling, so I was
caught in between.  I didn't want to leave him there.
He was by himself.  There was nobody there in the
stairwell at that time, and so I had to help him.  He
was not making it.  He was falling down the stairs.  So
I put him on my shoulder, and I proceeded down with
him.
          At the 19th Floor, I came across 13 truck,
which I made sure the captain relayed to my boss where
I was, so everybody knew what was going on, because now
I was away from -- I didn't have a radio.  I was the
nozzle man.  He gave me one of his guys to help me,
because we didn't -- I wasn't going to get this guy out
of the building by myself.
          So with that, we proceeded down the stairs,
and it was not chaos.  It was not -- I didn't hear
anything with his radio, not like anything happened.
Still not hearing, not knowing that the other building
collapsed, and we just proceeded down.  The guy -- we
had to help him.  He was dragging his feet.  He really
W. CASEY
6
couldn't do anything.  Every time he wanted to stop, we
just kind of lifted him up in the air.  We didn't
stop.  That was the one thing we didn't do, but it was
not like it was people running over us or -- it was
calm.
          When we got to the lobby finally, there was a
lot of ash and stuff on the ground, which I just
assumed was part of the plane now, stuff.  It must have
been the other building collapsed, and part of it went
in there, but still not aware of it.
          Of course, like I said, in the lobby, I saw
people that I knew, firemen.  Nobody really was rushing
out, because there were still civilians.  So with that,
I asked somebody from 2 truck did he see any of my
guys.  He said, "Yeah, they just walked out."
          So then I knew that the guys were out of the
building, and so I was going to -- we were going to go
out with this guy, and we had to run out, because we
were afraid -- like I said, there were people jumping,
and so we ran out a little with him, but couldn't
really run.  We were dragging him.
          Once we got across the street, I believe we
went a little bit north.
     Q.   This was on West Street?
W. CASEY
7
     A.   West Street.  Well, we crossed over West
Street.  I don't know the street that we crossed over
to, but we went up a little north of the trade center,
so we never looked behind us, really never knew that
Tower 2, which is really now south of you, I guess, not
knowing that that's actually collapsed, still not
knowing.
          We got across -- like I said, I guess we
crossed West Street.  I don't know the little side
street here, and we came to an ambulance, and we
started -- they didn't have a key to it.  We started
getting ready to get this guy into the ambulance, and
with that, you heard this -- it was almost like a roar,
and it was like a rumbling, and I turned back.
          I kind of froze, because when I turned back,
I started seeing the building starting to come down,
and when I turned back around, there was nobody --
there was nobody there, so I kind of just dove up
against a fence.  It was like a parking garage, an open
parking space.
          So I just put my face piece on, ducked my
head, and it was frightening.  It was very -- I thought
that was it.  Stuff was going over.  It stayed dark.
It felt like an eternity.  I'm sure it wasn't, but it
W. CASEY
8
just felt long.
          At first I couldn't get my face piece on,
like I said, so I was choking on the rubble and stuff, andIgotitoninalitbitofadaze. Ididn'tknow where I was really at first, and started to go west, I guess, but then once you get your bearings now you want to turn back around because, of course, we had that guy, and I still didn't know where the guy that helped me with 13 truck.
          When I started heading back, there was this
chief -- you know, he didn't have his -- I think his
helmet got knocked off, and he had like a -- looked a
broken arm or something, and his face was bloody, so I
wanted to help him now.  So we just started walking him
to an ambulance, because it was further west.
          Now, when you wanted to head back, there were
a few chiefs coming towards anybody that was going back
that way.  We had to regroup.  It was sort of like we
have to go around and you can't go back that way.  So
now I don't know what happened to the guy I was with,
you know, the guy from 13 truck or the guy we helped
out, but they were saying, "You can't go this way."
          I guess they were still worried about
collapse.  You couldn't really tell what just happened,
W. CASEY
9
so we walked around -- it was like a -- walked all the
way west and then came back up.  I don't know which
street we came back up, but we ended back up on West
Street, north, of course, of the towers.
     Q.   You walked around by the water?
     A.   Yeah.  All right?  Walk around by the water
and then walked back.  It's almost like I walked around
that parking lot that was on the other side now.  Cars
were blowing up.  I guess stuff hit it, and they
started -- you know, it was pretty weird.
          I don't know the time interval now, and now I
came across the control guy from 21 engine, so
because -- he didn't know where -- so it was kind of
like we had to see each other.  He was asking where the
captain was.  I didn't know if the captain was behind
me or not.  You didn't know, like I said, at the time I
didn't know where anybody was then, if they followed us
behind.
          I would have to assume that -- you know, I
didn't feel good about it, because I didn't assume -- I
knew I wasn't out of the building that long, so they
would have been out -- it wouldn't have been that much
time for them to get out, anybody that was behind me.
          So then it was just a waiting game then.  Now
W. CASEY
10
everybody was -- because he didn't know still where a
couple of our other guys -- because they were running
from if building, too, and they just got out, but they
were in a different direction, but then it was just --
we were there the whole -- you know, till late,
sometime at night, but it was basically any time that
we wanted to try to get in, it was just -- became so
many people were there now that they weren't really
letting us get in or other crews were already in, and
it was just basically a waiting game on West Street,
and somewhere.  I forget where else we were.
          And then after a certain time, we headed
back.  During the time I said we were hoping to hear.
We were hearing so many conflicting stories.  We
thought maybe our captain was out.  We found out he was
the only one, of course, that didn't get out, and like
I said, the rest of the time, I barely remember what
happened.  It was kind of like I was in a fog at that
time, but that's basically the gist of my story.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Okay, William.
     Thanks a lot for your information.
          The time now is 12:29, and this concludes the
     interview.
File No. 9110353
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER ADRIENNE WALSH
   Interview Date:  December 17, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  The date is December
     17, 2001.  The time is time is 1445 hours.
          This is Battalion Chief Ronald Kemly of the
     Fire Department of the City of New York.  I am
     conducting an interview with the following
     individual, Firefighter 2nd Grade Adrienne Walsh
     of Ladder Company 20 of the Fire Department of the
     City of New York.
          The interview is taking place in the quarters
     of Ladder 20's office regarding the events of
     September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Could you please tell me what happened on
that date.
     A.   Well, I wasn't working.  I was in my car on
the BQE.  I had entered the Kent and Wythe Avenue exit,
and we were in bumper to bumper traffic.  I was on my
way to fire ^ inaudible, and as I approached the
towers, I saw through the warehouse buildings a white
puff of smoke and what seemed like confetti, and I
thought, oh that's interesting.
          As we edged along, again, there was an
opening between two, and I saw black smoke, and I saw
three floors of fire, which I thought was very bad for
a building like that.  I knew we were on our way down
A. WALSH
3
there.  We were about fourth due.
          So I said, "Oh, damn.  I'm missing the fire
of the century."
          As we inched along under the Promenade, I was
listening to the radio, heard the DJ say that the
second -- oh my God, the second building approaching,
and all of a sudden, we pulled out again from a
warehouse, and I saw the second explosion, so we had
two buildings on fire.
          I inched my way off on the Atlantic Avenue
exit, sped to my parents' house and dropped the keys,
car keys, off to them, because I didn't want to get a
ticket for alternate side of the street parking.
          I ran to my apartment and changed my clothes,
put my running shoes on and literally ran to work.  I
got to the bottom of the Brooklyn Bridge and ran in
front of -- I think it was Engine Company 246, and they
gave me a lift across the bridge.  I got off across the
bridge and ran up to Lafayette Street.
          By the time I got to the triangle here on
Lafayette, the first tower just fell, and there were
streams of people coming up Lafayette.
          I ran into quarters, quickly went upstairs,
put my uniform on, quickly ran downstairs, got my
A. WALSH
4
bunker gear on.  When I got down here, I saw Greg
Edwards and Captain Weldon had already come, and we
were all running for gear.
          58 truck was relocated here, so he said --
Captain Weldon told us to put every piece of equipment
on the truck that we had, spare cylinders especially,
anything we had.
          So we did that, and all of a sudden the tone
alarm went off, and I believe 58 got a call for a woman
trapped in Cedar Street.  I'm not completely sure about
that.
          We all piled on top of the rig, and he took
off down Broadway.  As we got past City Hall, the sky
disappeared.  It was like snow and crap everywhere just
flying through the air.  We got down.  We parked.  I
think it's Liberty Plaza where the guy -- the plaster
guy with the newspaper is sitting there.
          We parked right outside there, and I go to
the back of the rig to look for a Scott pack, because I
have no air at all.  We have plenty of cylinders.  We
have no mask.
          As I got to the back of the rig, I don't know
why, but I looked to my right, and I saw a black cloud
the size of the biggest skyscraper I've ever seen
A. WALSH
5
actually coming, hurdling at us like a tornado, and I
just yelled, "Run," and I took off.
          Captain Weldon was in front of me.  The
chauffeur from 58 truck was over to my left just -- he
was either even with me or just above me, and George
Hough from Squad 18 was right behind me.  We ran down
the block toward the east side, and I thought to myself
the building -- I knew it was the second tower going,
and I thought if the building was going to collapse
down, that if I beat the cloud, I would beat the
building, and I saw the size of the cloud, and I knew I
wasn't going to beat the cloud, but I gave it my best
shot.
          So I ran down the block, and three quarters
of the way down the block, there was a door open.  Some
maintenance workers left the door open to the basement
of another -- I think it was another office building.
It was about the only light you saw.  I ran into
there.
          I think the chauffeur from 58 got in first,
Weldon then I -- Weldon was first.  I crossed the
saddle just as the black cloud took us over.  I mean,
you could just feel -- supposedly George told me he got
blown down by the blast.  He was not more than, I would
A. WALSH
6
say, ten yards behind me.
          We got into the hallway.  I turned around,
and I started banging on the door, because I knew the
guys were behind me, so they could find where I was, so
banging on the door, banging on the door.  "We're over
here.  We're over here."
          We went into the hallway.  We found some
hose, and we went back outside, because we couldn't see
a damn thing, and we used the hose -- we put the hose
in the door, and we walked -- the hose outside, so we
at least had a line to follow back to find anybody, and
eventually black became a lighter black, it became a
gray, it became like a really bad, bad snowstorm.
          We then walked across Liberty -- to Liberty
Plaza, where there were cars and lights on, and there
were eventually -- there were people there.  I don't
know where they surfaced from, but there were a few
people there saying people were stuck under things.
          The skin of the building as all over the
place, so we searched under the skin of the building,
searched under the cars, through the cars.  Nothing.
          So we then decided we'd walk around to Cedar
Street to see if anybody was, in fact, trapped in those
buildings.  We did walk around there.  I think we spoke
A. WALSH
7
to somebody in the basement of the building, a
person -- no, nobody was in that building, made a quick
check of that area, the surrounding area, continued to
walk -- I think it was down Cedar Street to the
Westside Highway and got to the Westside Highway.
          There were rigs everywhere and skeleton fire
screws.  For example, I mean, if you knew how many
people, how much personnel was down there, to see those
few individuals down there, you thought, where the heck
is everybody else, but there were guys down there
attempting to stretch lines from engine companies,
which is what we were trying to do.
          We kind of gathered at the median on the
Westside Highway.  There was an officer there.  They
decided to get a manifold in, because they were going
to have to stretch numerous lines off this manifold, so
we were working on stretching the manifold, picking up
the lines, feeding the manifold, got all that hooked
up, and there was no water pressure, so that was
another problem.
          We attempted to put out the car fires that we
had with the water pressure we had, and then we
proceeded up under the foot bridge to where the main
tower here, closer to the Westside Highway, had
A. WALSH
8
collapsed, and Chief Haydon was on top of -- he was on
top of the truck or what was left of the truck, and
there were a bunch of us waiting down below, and I
guess he was giving us directions, and "Guys, over this
way, stay together.  I don't know what to do with you."
          So we mulled around there for awhile.  I got
myself a mask.  I just found a mask in the street, and
I picked it up and carried it with me.  We walked -- we
walked through the rubble around that way to where they
wanted us to be.  I forget what that street was where
they kind of put us all over just to gather us and to
get us all together.
          So I saw Regina Wilson from 219.  I spoke
with her, trying to figure out -- that's where I saw
the bulk of the people.  After I got off the Westside
Highway and we went further west down that block,
that's where you saw more people, more firefighters.
And for the rest of the day, we just searched through
rubble.
          Then we were instructed to search through two
or three buildings to make sure they were stable, and
then they pulled everybody out because of the pink
building.  Was it 7 World Trade, that was going?
Q. Right.
A. WALSH
9
     A.   Then they pulled everybody out.  But we went
through a couple of buildings for stability.  I
remember doing that, at least three that I remember,
and that's when we met up -- I meet up with Will
Manion, Captain Weldon.  A whole bunch of us were
there.
     Q.   I just have a question or two.
          When you said you were on West Street, did
you head west again now?
     A.   I mean, with the water pressure problem.
     Q.   When you picked up with all those other
people --
     A.   We were on --
     Q.   -- where the majority of firemen wound up
being.
     A.   Right.  It was off the west side, West
Street, Westside Highway, whatever it is, past the
first bit of rubble, and you would have to --
     Q.   Towards the water is what I'm asking.
     A.   Right, it would be towards the water.  It was
north and towards the water.  You had to walk through
the rubble, and it was about, I don't know, 8 inches of
water you had to wade through.
          You had to wade through that and then go up
A. WALSH
10
and over.  I don't know -- it wasn't the block with Chi
Chi's on it.  I think it was one of the blocks before
that, but I'm not sure.
     Q.   All right.  When you went up West Street, you
went under the south foot bridge?
     A.   Right.
     Q.   Was this past there you are talking about?
     A.   Just a little, not much.  It was just one of
the those streets off.
     Q.   Liberty Street probably.
     A.   Pretty -- probably, yeah.
          We also searched -- I'm sorry, but before we
did that, we went to the Rector Street subway station
and searched down there.  We went down to the tunnel.
I had forgotten about that.
          We went down to make sure that everybody was
out.  Pretty much everybody was out.  We met one TA
worker who was coming up the stairs as we were going
down, and we went through the tunnel to where the
debris was, and it was piled high in the tunnel, and
then we came all the way back.
          That's when we walked to the command post and
then over or whatever that -- I guess it was the
command post at that time.  I don't know what it was.
A. WALSH
11
     Q.   All those rigs you saw, you wouldn't know
their locations?  Near the foot bridge, whatever.
     A.   All of the rigs -- most of the rigs I saw
were along West Street.  Definitely, was it 113 I kept
passing?  I drank some of their water.
          Then I saw -- as we got closer, I saw 226's
rig, but I'm not going to remember where.  I remember
passing it, because it was my first company, so that's
their rig.  I thought they were okay, because they were
far -- you know what I mean? I saw the rig.  It
wasn't -- I mean, the windows were blown out, but I
thought oh, okay, maybe they're not in, but lots of --
a lot of crushed cars, a lot of crushed ambulances.
          That day, I didn't see a lot of completely
crushed vehicles, you know, windows blown out, dust all
over the place, a side bashed in here, but the
completely totalled ones I don't remember seeing that
day.  Like 219 I saw, and that was really -- had gone
through the wringer, but it was okay, pumping.  I don't
remember -- when we saw Ladder 20, it was squashed.
     Q.   Approximately where did you see 219?  You
said they were pumping?
     A.   They were pumping -- they were pumping --
     Q.   Was it on West Street?
A. WALSH
12
     A.   It was right off West Street, right near --
I'm going to say it's close to the Palm Court, but I
was a little turned around at that point.  They were
near that area somewhere.
     Q.   South of the foot bridge, one of those
streets south of the foot bridge?
     A.   They were north of the south bridge.
     Q.   All right.  That's fine.
          And 20 was north of the south bridge?
     A.   Oh, yeah.  20 was underneath.
     Q.   If there is anything else you care to add --
     A.   Unfortunately, no.  Three o'clock in the
morning, I'll start remembering, but, I mean, that was
pretty much the bulk of the day.
          I remember searching the buildings.  I
remember we were told to search the buildings for
structural problems or to make sure things were okay.
          I remember going through in and around that
area a lot for long periods of time, in and around the
Palm Court, going through the Palm Court.
          We were there till, I think, eight o'clock,
7:30 eight o'clock.
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  If you don't have
     anything else, that concludes the interview.
A. WALSH
Thank you.
     THE WITNESS:  Thank you very much.
13

FILE NO 9110354
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER JOHN MORIBITO
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 12 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY MAUREEN MCCORMICK

BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY THE DATE IS DECEMBER 12 2001 THE TIME IS 1255 IN THE AFTERNOON
THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF RONALD KEMLY OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK
IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH JOHN MORIBITO OF LADDER COMPANY 10 OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK
THE INTERVIEW IS TAKING PLACE AT THE QUARTERS OF ENGINE LADDER 15 IN THE ENGINE OFFICE
REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001 FIREMAN MORIBITO PLEASE TELL ME WHAT
HAPPENED IN YOUR OWN WORDS
ON THE MORNING OF SEPTEMBER 11 ARRIVED AT
LADDER 10 ENGINE 10S QUARTERS AT APPROXIMATELY EIGHT AM AND RELIEVED THE CHAUFFEUR THAT WAS ON DUTY THE NIGHT BEFORE WAS SCHEDULED TO BE THE LADDER COMPANY
CHAUFFEUR THAT DAY
AT ABOUT QUARTER TO NINE AT 845 WE WERE
SITTING IN THE KITCHEN ENJOYING CUP OF COFFEE AND WE HEARD WHAT DESCRIBE AS KIND OF MUFFLED BOOM AND IT
SOUNDED LIKE WHEN CONTAINER TRUCK ROLLS DOWN THE
BLOCK AND HITS POTHOLE AND THE CONTAINER ON THE BACK
OF THE TRUCK RUMBLES
THE OFFICER LIEUTENANT STEVE HARRELL WHO

MORIBITO
WAS THE COVERING OFFICER IN LADDER 10 THAT DAY LOOKED ACROSS AT ME AND HE ASKED ME IF THAT WAS NORMAL FOR AROUND THAT AREA SAID YEAH IT KIND OF SOUNDED LIKE CONTAINER TRUCK
WHEN FINISHED MY SENTENCE THE HOUSE
WATCHMAN RAN IN AND HE APPARENTLY WAS VERY STARTLED
HE WAS VERY AFRAID AND HE WAS YELLING THAT PLANE HAD JUST HIT THE TRADE CENTER PLANE JUST HIT THE TRADE
CENTER HE REPEATED IT TWICE
WE ALL JUMPED UP FROM THE TABLE WE RAN UP
TO THE FRONT OF OUR QUARTERS OUT TO THE APPARATUS DOOR AND THE SKY WHICH WAS BEAUTIFUL BLUE SKY THAT SEPTEMBER MORNING HAD TURNED BLACK WE COULD SEE UP
AT THE BUILDING WE COULDNT TELL AT THAT POINT WHICH BUILDING WAS INVOLVED WITH THE CRASH WHICH ONE WAS ON FIRE BUT WE COULD SEE SMOKE AND WE COULD SEE DEBRIS FALLING FROM THE BUILDING
THERE WAS FIRE FALLING FROM THE BUILDING THERE WERE COMPUTERS AND PIECES OF DESK WE NOTICED
THAT THERE WERE ALSO PIECES OF HUMAN BEING FALLING DOWN FROM THE SKY AND CRASHING IN FRONT OF OUR QUARTERS OUT ON THE STREET
THERE WERE MANY PEOPLE IN THE STREET RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE QUARTERS THAT WERE STARTLED THEY WERE

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BLEEDING SOME WERE BURNT TBEY WERE COWERING IN OUR HOUSE WATCH WE TRIED TO PULL AS MANY OF THE PEOPLE
OFF THE STREET AS POSSIBLE BEFORE WE LEFT QUARTERS AND BROUGHT THEM INTO THE FIREHOUSE
WE JUMPED ON THE RIG WE GOT OUR GEAR ON
WE PULLED OUT OF QUARTERS HAD TO BE REAL CAREFUL BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE RUNNING IN FRONT OF THE FIRE TRUCK AND WE COULDNT REALLY CONTROL THEM AT THAT POINT
PULLED OUT OF QUARTERS AND VERY GINGERLY WAS TRYING TO GO ACROSS THE STREET
WE PROCEEDED TO MAKE LEFT TURN DOWN LIBERTY STREET STOPPED INITIALLY IN FRONT OF WORLD TRADE
CENTER AND EVERYONE ON THE RIG WAS YELLING UP AT ME THAT IT WAS WORLD TRADE CENTER THAT WAS HIT
AT THAT POINT THERE WAS STALLED LINCOLN TOWN CAR LIVERY CAR THAT WAS IN FRONT OF US AND
THERE WAS WOMAN DRIVER AND SHE COULDNT GET THE CAR TO MOVE SHE COULDNT GET IT IN GEAR SHE WAS IN SHOCK SHE WAS JUMPING UP AND DOWN EVENTUALLY

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POLICE OFFICER CAME OVER HE
TRIED TO MOVE IT FOR HER HE
SO DID HAVE TO RAM THE CAR
THE WAY OPENED UP LIBERTY
OTHER ENGINE THAT WAS BEHIND US ENGINE 10 TO GET UP THE BLOCK
CAME TO THE END TO WEST STREET AND MADE
RIGHT TURN ONTO WEST STREET AND WAS BARRELING
DOWN AS WAS APPROACHING WORLD TRADE CENTER THERE WAS CHINESE MAN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET AND HE HAD BEEN BURNT PRETTY BADLY AT THAT POINT WE DIDNT KNOW HOW HE WAS BURNT BUT HE WAS BURNT HE WAS LYING IN THE SECOND LANE FROM THE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET AND HE WAS STILL ALIVE
AS APPROACHED HIM HE LIFTED HIS HEAD UP OFF THE STREET TO LOOK AT ME AND STOPPED MY RIG AND
POSITIONED IT IN WAY THAT WOULD BLOCK HIM OUT SO THAT NO ONE COMING AROUND ME WOULD ACTUALLY RUN OVER
HIM BECAUSE THEY COULDNT SEE HIM AT THAT POINT
THATS WHERE THE MEMBERS DISEMBARKED OFF THE
RIG THEY ALL JUMPED OFF MYSELF JUMPED OFF TO TEND TO THE GENTLEMAN THAT WAS IN THE STREET TERRY RIVERA
WHO HAD JUST GOTTEN OFF THAT MORNING AND TOOK THE RUN IN WITH US RAN UP TO ME AND HE ASKED ME IF HE SHOULD
JUMPED IN THE CAR HE WASNT ABLE TO MOVE IT AND PUSHED IT OUT OF
STREET IN ORDER FOR THE

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GO INTO THE BUILDING BEING THAT HE DIDNT HAVE SCOTT PACK ON AND TOLD HIM TO ASSIST ME WITH THE GENTLEMAN
THAT WAS IN THE STREET
THE REST OF THE COMPANY RAN INTO THE
HAD RUN OVER TO VOLUNTEER AMBULANCE THAT HAD ARRIVED AT THE SCENE AT THE TIME AT ABOUT THE SAME TIME THE AMBULANCE ARRIVED LADDER AND ENGINE
WAS PULLING UP IT WAS VERY QUICK WITHIN THE FIRST 30 SECONDS OF OUR ARRIVAL AT THE BUILDING
THE AMBULANCE HAD PULLED UP WE TOOK THE GENTLEMAN THAT WAS IN THE STREET WE WRAPPED HIM IN
BURN BLANKET WE ACTUALLY WET HIM DOWN WITH WATER
CAN AND WE PUT HIM ON THE STRETCHER AND WE ACTUALLY PUT HIM IN THE BACK OF THE AMBULANCE AND THEY TOOK HIM
AWAY
THEN PROCEEDED INTO THE LOBBY OF THE BUILDING WHEN WALKED THROUGH THE LOBBY THERE WAS BROKEN GLASS EVERYWHERE THERE WERE ALSO TWO PEOPLE IN THE LOBBY GENTLEMAN WHO WAS ALREADY BURNED AND WAS DEAD AND FEMALE SHE WAS NUDE HER CLOTHES HAD BURNT AWAY HER SKIN WAS BURNT AWAY SHE WAS STILL ALIVE SHE WAS TRYING TO COMMUNICATE HER EYES WERE SEALED SHUT HER THROAT APPARENTLY WAS SEALED SHE COULDNT REALLY COMMUNICATE WITHIN THE NEXT TWO
BUILDING

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MINUTES SHE HAD PERISHED RIGHT THERE WE NEVER ACTUALLY GOT HER ANY ASSISTANCE WE COULDNT GET HER AN AMBULANCE AND WE DIDNT GET HER OUT OF THERE
AT THAT POINT HEARD MY OFFICER LIEUTENANT HARRELL CALL DOWN TO THE CHAUFFEUR MYSELF AND ASKED ME TO DO PERIMETER CHECK ON THE BUILDING SO RAN INTO THE COURTYARD BETWEEN WORLD TRADE CENTER AND WORLD TRADE CENTER AND MADE MY REPORT THAT THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE TOWER HAD VISIBLE FLAMES SHOWING FROM IT AT
THE 80TH FLOOR
AT THAT POINT WASNT ABLE TO SEE THE
ENTIRE PERIMETER OF THE TOWER BUT THERE WAS FIRE SHOWING AROUND THE ENTIRE PERIMETER OF THE NORTH TOWER
TOWER NO
THEN LOOKED DOWN AND THERE WERE PEOPLE APPROACHING ME AND ASKING ME IF THEY SHOULD EVACUATE THE BUILDING SAID ABSOLUTELY EVACUATE BOTH BUILDINGS IF YOU CAN GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN NOW
NOTICED IN THE COURTYARD THAT THERE WERE
VALISES SUITCASES STREWN ABOUT THE COURTYARD THERE WERE WALLETS EVERYWHERE BROKEN GLASS AND THEN
NOTICED THAT THERE WERE AIRPLANE TICKETS
STARTED TO GET PICTURE OF THE SIZE OF THE AIRPLANE THAT HAD HIT THE BUILDING UP UNTIL THEN WE
APPROXIMATELY

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THOUGHT IT WAS MAYBE SMALL TWO SEATER PLANE AND NOW WE WERE STARTING TO GET THE IDEA THAT IT WAS MAYBE
COMMERCIAL AIRLINER
LARGER OR
THOUGHT
INSULATION
THE PLACE AND IT TURNED OUT THAT THIS WAS HUMAN FLESH PEOPLE THAT HAD BEEN BLOWN APART FROM THE IMPACT OR FROM THE PLANE EXPLODING ITSELF AND NOTICED THAT THEY WERE EVERYWHERE THEY WERE ALL OVER THE FLOOR
ALL OVER THE COURTYARD
SO MADE THAT REPORT TO MY OFFICER THAT
ALSO STARTED TO NOTICE THAT THERE WERE WHAT WAS INSULATION OR WHAT DESCRIBED AS
IT WAS GRAY AND PINK AND IT WAS ALL OVER
THINK THIS WAS BIGGER PLANE THAN WE HAD WHAT WE THOUGHT IT WAS INITIALLY
WENT BACK INTO THE LOBBY AT HAD NO IDEA WHERE MY COMPANY HAD GONE
EXPECTED OR
THAT POINT
KNOW THEY WENT UP THE STAIRCASE BUT DIDNT KNOW WHAT FLOOR
THEY WERE ON SO REMAINED IN THE LOBBY AND HELPED EVACUATE PEOPLE THAT WERE NOW EXITING THE BUILDING
SAW THE CHIEFS CHIEF PFEIFER FROM BATTALION COME IN ALONG WITH HIM WAS THE BATTALION AIDE AND THE FRENCH FILMMAKER WHO HAPPENED TO BE STANDING IN THE LOBBY AT THE TIME AND HE WAS VIDEOTAPING EVERYTHING THAT WAS OCCURRING

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LATER ON STARTED TO SEE OTHER COMPANIES COME IN SAW LADDER 15 AND SAW ENGINE THEY
WALKED PAST ME DONT KNOW WHAT BUILDING
GONE INTO SAW MEMBERS OF 21 TRUCK
THAT HAD RECOGNIZED THE BELIEVE IT
DIVISION 3S AIDE WHO WENT TO THE ACADEMY WITH HIS NAME WAS JAMES SMAGALA SAW HIM IN THE LOBBY CHIEF CASHIN
AT THAT POINT WAS HELPING EVACUATE POLICE OFFICERS HAD COME UP TO ME AND ASKED ME IF
KNEW THE BUILDING SAID HAD THEY SAID WELL WE DONT WANT TO SEND PEOPLE OUT ONTO WEST STREET BECAUSE
THERE ARE PEOPLE JUMPING AND THERES FALLING DEBRIS AND GLASS WHAT WAS THE BEST WAY TO GET THEM OUT OF
THE BUILDING
SUGGESTED THAT WE SEND THEM THROUGH THE PLAZA AREA WHICH WAS ACTUALLY UNDERNEATH AND WORLD TRADE CENTER AND WE WOULD SEND THEM DOWN INTO THE SUBWAYS AND HELP THEM EVACUATE THROUGH THE AND
LINE BELIEVE AND THEY WOULD COME UP ON CHAMBERS STREET OR ON CHURCH STREET BUT IN ANY EVENT THEY
WOULD BE FURTHER AWAY FROM THE BUILDING AND THEY WOULD BE UNDERGROUND WHICH FELT WAS SAFE
SO THATS WHAT WE DID WAS THE FIRST
THEY HAD SAW MEMBERS
WAS THE

10
ORGANIZED CHAOS AS AFRAID AS THEY WERE AS FEARFUL FOR THEIR LIVES AS THEY WERE THEY LISTENED TO
DIRECTIONS VERY WELL AND IT ACTUALLY MADE ME FEEL PROUD THAT NEW YORKERS HAD COME TOGETHER THE WAY THEY HAD AND HELPED OUT ONE ANOTHER THAT NO ONE RAN OUT OF THE BUILDING JUST IN FEAR OF THEIR OWN LIVES BUT ACTUALLY STOPPED AND HELPED EVERYONE ALONG THE WAY
THE SPRINKLERS WERE GOING OFF IN THE LOBBY IN THE PLAZA THERE WAS BROKEN GLASS IN THE PLAZA AS
PEOPLE WERE EXITING TO GET AWAY FROM THE BUILDING SOME OF THEM WERE RUNNING AND THEY WOULD SLIP AND FALL AND
THEY WOULD GET GASHED WIDE OPEN THEY HAD MAJOR LACERATIONS TO THE BACK OF THEIR HEAD TO THEIR BACK
TO THEIR LOWER TORSO WE WERE FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO HAVE EMS NEARBY AND WE PUT THOSE PEOPLE ON STRETCHERS
ALMOST IMMEDIATELY AND GOT THEM OUT OF THE BUILDING IMMEDIATELY
THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE DID LISTEN TO OUR DIRECTIONS AND THEY DID SLOW DOWN AND THEY WERE WALKING IN CALM MANNER WE WERE ABLE TO GET IN MY OPINION COUNTED APPROXIMATELY OR 4000 PEOPLE THAT
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MEMBER IN THE EVACUATION LINE AND WAS DIRECTING
DOOR FROM WORLD TRADE CENTER INTO THE PLAZA AREA DESCRIBE IT AS AN
PEOPLE THROUGH REVOLVING

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HAD WALKED PAST US AND EVACUATED INTO THE LOBBY
THERE WERE TWO GENTLEMAN FROM FIRE PATROL NO
THAT WERE RIGHT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE REVOLVING DOOR WHERE HAD SET UP FOR THE EVACUATION AFTER
COUPLE OF MINUTES WE HEARD HEARD OVER THE DEPARTMENT RADIO PREPARE FOR IMPACT SECOND PLANE
IS APPROACHING THE BUILDING
AT THAT POINT WE ALL LOOKED AT EACH OTHER
AND REALIZED THAT IT WAS NOW TERRORIST ATTACK THERE WAS NO WAY THAT TWO PLANES COULD HIT THE BUILDING IN
SUCH SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME ON SUCH CLEAR BLUE SKY CLEAR DAY
FELT THE IMPACT OF THE SECOND PLANE
FELT THE BUILDING SHAKE SAW THE LIGHTS FLICKER AT THAT POINT STARTED TO GET NERVOUS AND WONDER WHETHER OR NOT THE BUILDINGS WOULD COME DOWN
APPROACHED THE CHIEFS THE CHIEFS WERE ASSURED BY THE ENGINEERS OF THE BUILDING THAT THERE WAS
NO WAY THAT THE BUILDINGS WOULD COME DOWN THEY ACTUALLY SAID THAT THE BUILDINGS COULD TAKE
WITHSTAND TEN AIRPLANES HITTING IT AND THERE WAS NO WAY THAT THE BUILDINGS COULD COME DOWN
ALSO SAW MIKE HURLEY AND JAMES CORCORAN IM SORRY JAMES CORRIGAN WHO WERE THE FIRE SAFETY
11

MORIBITO
DIRECTORS AT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WHO HAD MET COUPLE OF TIMES BEFORE AND THEY WERE RUNNING AROUND
THEY WERE TRYING TO KEEP SOME ORGANIZATION AND TRYING TO GIVE AS MUCH INFORMATION TO THE CHIEFS AS POSSIBLE AS TO THE STRUCTURE OF THE BUILDING
WENT BACK TO MY POST TO HELP CONTINUE EVACUATE PEOPLE AFTER WOULD GUESS IT WAS ABOUT AN
HOUR BUT SEEMED LIKE JUST FEW MINUTES IT SEEMED
LIKE PEOPLE HAD STOPPED COMING DOWN THEY STOPPED COMING DOWN OFF THE ESCALATORS PEOPLE WERENT USING
THE ELEVATORS AND HAD WALKED INTO WORLD TRADE LOBBY FROM THE PLAZA AREA TO LOOK TO SEE IF ANYBODY ELSE WAS COMING DOWN
NOTICED THAT SOME OF THE ELEVATORS HAD BEEN BLOWN OUT OF THEIR SHAFTS THEY CAME DOWN AND CRASHED OUT OF THE SHAFT THEY WERE BUCKLED AND HAD NOTICED
THAT THERE WERE PEOPLE STILL IN THE ELEVATORS BELIEVE THAT THEY WERE AT THAT POINT DECEASED
THEN SAW THE LIGHTS IN BOTH BUILDINGS WENT OUT AND HEARD THE RUMBLE AT THAT POINT DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS HAPPENING BUT WORLD TRADE CENTER WAS COLLAPSING
TRIED TO GET BACK TO THE DOORWAY WHERE HAD JUST EMERGED FROM AND SAW THE MEMBERS OF FIRE
12

MORIBITO
PATROL AND SOME CIVILIANS AND POLICE OFFICERS GET DOWN ON THEIR HANDS AND KNEES AND SAW THEM BURIED IN
RUBBLE SAW THE DEBRIS FALL ON TOP OF THEM AND PUSH THEM AGAINST THE WALL THEY WERENT ABLE TO GET THROUGH THE DOORWAY WHERE WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE WHICH WAS SOMEWHAT OF SAFE HAVEN
THE BUILDING CAME DOWN THE RUSH OF WIND LIFTED ME UP OFF THE GROUND AND THREW ME ABOUT 30 FEET
BACK INTO THE LOBBY OF WORLD TRADE CENTER GOT MYSELF UP SCRAMBLED BACK TO THE DOORWAY FELT
THAT THE ONLY SAFETY AREA THAT HAD WAS TRYING TO BE UNDERNEATH THAT ENCLOSURE WHICH WAS MARBLE AND STEEL DOORWAY
AFTER THE BUILDING COLLAPSED JUMPED UP REALIZED THAT WAS STILL ALIVE AND NOW TRIED TO
MAKE MY WAY OUT OF THE BUILDING DID HEAR AT THAT
POINT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT PASS ALARMS WERE GOING ALL AROUND ME AND WHAT COULD IMAGINE TO BE ABOUT TEN OR FIFTEEN VOICES FIREMEN THAT WERE EXCLAIMING THEY WERE STILL ALIVE NOT TO LEAVE THEM BEHIND TO COME BACK AND GET THEM THAT THEY WERE OKAY THAT THEY WERE PINNED THAT THEY MAYBE HAD BROKEN LIMBS BUT THAT THEY WERE ALIVE THEY WERE COVERED UNDERNEATH SOME DEBRIS
THERE WAS LOT OF DUST WE COULDNT SEE BUT IN ANY
13

14
TRIED TO LOOK AROUND BRIEFLY FOR SOMEBODY
COULDNT FIND ANYONE SAW COUPLE OF FLASHLIGHTS IN THE DISTANCE WALKED STRAIGHT AHEAD RAN INTO
THE ELEVATORS THE ELEVATORS WERE COMPLETELY OUT OF
THE SHAFTS AT THIS POINT ALL THE ELEVATORS COULD SEE MEMBERS WERE CRUSHED IN BETWEEN THEM COULD SEE CIVILIANS WERE CRUSHED IN BETWEEN THE ELEVATORS
TRIED TO MAKE MY WAY TO THE LEFT OF THE ELEVATORS WHERE THE GUARD STATION WAS THERE WAS
THEN WINDOW
WAS FOLLOWING GRAY PATCH ON THE WALL AND SAW WHITE PATCH REALIZED THAT WAS
RAN TO THE WINDOW STOPPED IN THE
TOOK MY FLASHLIGHT OFF MY HELMET FLASHED
WAY
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EVENT THEY WERE ALIVE AND THEY WERE YELLING FOR HELP
DEBRIS FROM FLOOR TO CEILING AT THAT POINT COULDNT GET THROUGH THERE MADE MY WAY TO THE RIGHT OF THE ELEVATORS WHICH WAS UNDERNEATH THE ESCALATOR AND
SAW
WINDOW
IT INTO
OUT THAT IF ANYBODY WAS ALIVE THIS WAS THE WAY TO GO FOLLOW THE FLASHLIGHT
THE BUILDING YELLING OUT THAT THIS WAS
SIX FIREMEN AND TWO CIVILIANS HAD COME OUT THAT WINDOW WITH ME AT THAT POINT
APPROXIMATELY

ENGINE
10 WAS CRUSHED
ALSO HEARD SOMEONE YELLING FOR THE ENGINE
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COULDNT SEE WHICH COMPANY THEY WERE WITH THEY WERE COVERED IN GRAY SOOT AND ASH THEIR HELMETS WERE COVERED COULDNT TELL OR DETERMINE WHO THEY WERE BUT THERE WERE ABOUT SIX FIREMEN AND TWO CIVILIANS THAT CAME OUT THAT WINDOW
WE RAN ACROSS WEST STREET WHICH WAS AT THAT POINT LITTERED WITH DEBRIS INCLUDING BEAMS AND BROKEN
GLASS BUT NOT TO THE POINT WHERE WEST STREET WAS COVERED WEST STREET WAS STILL FAIRLY OPEN THAT WE COULD RUN ACROSS IT
WHEN GOT OUT THERE SAW ENGINE 10 WHICH WAS PARKED RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING HAD BEEN HIT BY BEAM WHAT FOUND OUT LATER TO BE 67 TONS IN WEIGHT AND IT HAD ACTUALLY COMPLETELY DEMOLISHED
ENGINE 10 IT WAS ON TOP OF IT AND AT THAT POINT
10 CHAUFFEUR OVER THE RADIO AND STOPPED BRIEFLY BY
10 TO LOOK FOR THE CHAUFFEUR TO SEE IF HE WAS
ENGINE
POSSIBLY THERE IF HE WAS PINNED MAYBE IF HE WAS HIDING UNDERNEATH THE RIG COULD HAVE GOTTEN HIM OUT OF THERE BUT AFTER LOOKING QUICKLY AROUND THE RIG DIDNT NOTICE ANY FIRE DEPARTMENT GEAR DIDNT SEE THE CHAUFFEUR REALIZED HE MUST HAVE GOTTEN AWAY
15

UP
BUILDING
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ONE OF THE FEMALE CIVILIANS THAT CAME OUT OF THE WINDOW WITH ME KEPT FALLING SHED RUN TWO OR THREE STEPS AND SHED FALL ID PICK HER UP BY THE SEAT OF HER PANTS WAS THROWING HER IN FRONT OF MYSELF TO TRY TO KEEP HER IN FRONT OF ME SHED GET
SHED FALL
NOT REALIZING IT BUT NOW THINKING BACK SHE HAD PROBABLY HAD BROKEN LEG IF NOT TWO BROKEN LEGS
AND WASNT ABLE TO RUN BUT DID MANAGE TO CONTINUE TO THROW HER ALL THE WAY ACROSS WEST STREET AND INTO THE ARMS OF AN EMS WORKER WHO PUT HER ON STRETCHER AND GOT HER OUT OF THERE IMMEDIATELY
AT THAT POINT STARTED TO RUN NORTHWEST DROPPED OFF MY CYLINDER RIGHT AT THE CENTER DIVIDER OF WEST STREET AND STARTED TO RUN NORTHWEST AWAY FROM THE
TOWARDS THE WATER TOWARDS THE HUDSON RIVER AND TOWARDS WHERE THE REST OF MY COMPANY WAS YELLING THEY WERE HEADED TOWARDS STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL
AFTER GOING ABOUT TWO OR THREE BLOCKS WAS FAR ENOUGH AWAY FROM THE SMOKE TO TURN AROUND AND SEE
THAT WHAT THOUGHT HAD HAPPENED ACTUALLY HAD HAPPENED
THAT NO WORLD TRADE CENTER DID
AND NOT UNTIL THAT MOMENT NOT UNTIL THAT POINT DID REALIZE THAT THE TRADE CENTER ACTUALLY WAS DOWN
COMPLETELY COLLAPSE
16

MORIBITO
AFTER SEEING THAT WORLD TRADE CENTER HAD COULD SEE THAT IT WAS BAD SITUATION FOR
COLLAPSED
WORLD TRADE CENTER REPORTED TO THE CHIEF THAT
THERE WERE MAYBE 40 OR 50 MEMBERS THAT WERE STANDING FAST IN THAT LOBBY CHIEF PFEIFER AND HE HIMSELF WAS IN THAT LOBBY AND HE GOT OUT OF THERE AND HE KNEW THAT THERE WERE LOT OF THE MEMBERS IN THERE
DONT KNOW AT THAT POINT IF ANYBODY EVER WENT BACK INTO THE LOBBY OF TO SEE IF ANY OF THE MEMBERS THAT WERE INJURED IN THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GET OUT OF THERE HAD THEY BEEN ABLE TO GET IN THERE TO HELP THOSE PEOPLE DONT KNOW IF THAT OCCURRED BUT ONLY AFTER ABOUT 15 MINUTES AND AFTER RUNNING ABOUT TWO OR THREE BLOCKS AWAY FROM THE TRADE CENTER
STARTED TO SEE THE TOP OF WORLD TRADE CENTER BEGAN TO BUCKLE AND AT THAT POINT THOUGHT THE BUILDING WAS GOING TO COME DOWN TOWARDS THE NORTH AND WASNT FAR ENOUGH AWAY AT THAT POINT AND NEEDED TO CONTINUE TO RUN
SO GOT BACK UP WITH THE REST OF MEMBERS FROM LADDER 10 AND ENGINE 10 AND WE STARTED TO RUN FURTHER FROM THE BUILDING AND THEN THE BUILDING HAD COME DOWN UPON ITSELF AND AT THAT POINT WE REALIZED THAT NOW IT WAS TIME TO TURN AROUND AND GO BACK TO THE
17

MORIBITO
BUILDING TO LOOK FOR MEMBERS THAT WERE POSSIBLY INJURED OR PINNED
AFTER GOING BACK TO THE BUILDING AND
REGROUPING TRYING TO REPORT TO CHIEFS TO FIND OUT EXACTLY HOW WE SHOULD ATTACK THIS HAD HOOKED UP WITH
MEMBERS OF ENGINE 10 LADDER 10 AND OTHER GUYS AND WE GRABBED SOME HOSE LINES WE WERE TRYING TO HELP EXTINGUISH SOME CARS THAT WERE ON FIRE COUPLE OF AMBULANCES
CHECKED IN THE BACK OF AMBULANCE TO SEE IF THERE WAS SOMEBODY MAYBE THAT WAS IN THERE
THAT HAD GOTTEN PINNED OR WAS BURNING WE PUT OUT COUPLE OF CAR FIRES
WE RAN BACK TO THE BUILDING AND THEN SEEMED LIKE ALL DAY LONG WE WERE RUNNING BACK AND FORTH INTO THE BUILDING AND OUT OF THE BUILDING AS OTHER STRUCTURES WERE POSSIBLY GOING TO COLLAPSE AND WHICH IN FACT AFTER COUPLE OF HOURS NO WORLD TRADE CENTER DID
QUICKLY
COLLAPSE
SO IT WAS CONTINUOUS RUNNING BACK AND FORTH
AND TRYING TO HELP OUT AS BEST WE CAN LOOKING FOR MEMBERS PUTTING OUT FIRES TRYING TO MAKE WHATEVER
KIND OF RESCUE EFFORTS WE CAN TRY TO GET AS MANY TOOLS OUT OF WHATEVER RIGS WERE CLOSE BY TRY TO DO SOME
18

MORIBITO
DIGGING STILL NOT KNOWING WHETHER OR NOT THERE WERE
EXPLOSIVES IN THE CARS SURROUNDING THE AREA DIDNT REALLY KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THERE WERE MORE AIRPLANES
INCOMING IF THE TERRORIST ATTACK WAS ACTUALLY OVER AT THAT POINT
THE REST OF THE DAY JUST TRYING TO REGROUP
WITH AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU CAN AND TRY TO GET TOGETHER AND DO SOME KIND OF EFFORT TO HELP THE MEMBERS
MYSELF KNOWING THAT THERE WERE PEOPLE IN THE LOBBY OF WORLD TRADE ENTERED THROUGH WORLD TRADE TO GET INTO THAT LOBBY ONLY TO FIND OUT THAT THE LOBBY AREA WAS COMPLETELY CRUSHED THERE WAS NO WAY TO EVEN DETERMINE WHERE IT WAS AT THAT POINT TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO ATTACK IT OR TRY TO GET IN THERE AND LOOK FOR BODIES OR LOOK FOR PEOPLE
THATS PRETTY MUCH IT AND THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS BACK AND FORTH TO THE FIREHOUSE TRYING TO MAKE
THE BEST EFFORT WE CAN TO LOOK UNDERGROUND TO LOOK INTO THE SUBWAYS TO TRY TO FIND PEOPLE THAT WE KNEW
WERE ALIVE WE HAD NEVER COME ACROSS ANYBODY WE DIDNT COME ACROSS ANYBODY THAT WAS ALIVE IN ANY OF THE VOIDS THAT WE SEARCHED
THEN THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS IT BECAME MORE AND MORE ORGANIZED AND BECAME BETTER EFFORT TO TRY TO
19

MORIBITO
LOOK FOR PEOPLE BUT ONCE AGAIN NEVER FINDING
ANYBODY NEVER COMING ACROSS ANYONE THAT WAS ALIVE FROM ENGINE 10 OR LADDER 10
ARE YOU FINISHED YES
COUPLE OF QUESTIONS SURE
AFTER THE FIRST COLLAPSE YOU SAID YOU HEARD PEOPLE GIVING RADIO TRANSMISSIONS
DID THEY IDENTIFY THEMSELVES AT ALL
NO THERE WAS NO IDENTIFICATION GIVEN OVER
THE RADIO WOULD IMAGINE IT ALMOST SOUNDED AS IF
THEY WERE GETTING INFORMATION OFF POLICE RADIOS
BECAUSE THEY WERE GIVING ME ALSO HEARD COMING OVER
THE RADIO THAT THEY HAD HEARD THAT PLANE JUST HIT THE
SUPREME COURT BUILDING PLANE HAD HIT THE PENTAGON AND THIS WAS COMING OVER OUR RADIOS
SOMEBODY WOULD IMAGINE WAS OUT IN THE STREET AND WAS MAYBE HEARING SOMETHING OVER THE POLICE DEPARTMENT RADIO AND WAS JUST MAKING TRANSMISSIONS WHETHER THEY REALIZED IT WAS TRUE OR NOT
YOU SAID YOU HOOKED UP WITH 10 AND 10 LATER
ON AND THEN BY STUYVESANT
DID MOST OF THOSE GUYS SURVIVE
20

MORIBITO
WE HAD THINK THERE WERE AHOUT 14
THAT DAY WE HAD 11 GUYS ON DUTY AND THREE GUYS THAT
WERE LAYING OVER THAT HAD JUST GOT OFF AND WE LOST FIVE FIVE OF THOSE GUYS
WHEN YOU HOOKED UP WITH THE OTHER GUYS DID
THEY SAY WHERE THEY HAD BEEN OPERATING
YEAH MEMBERS OF ENGINE 10 HAD MADE IT UP TO
ABOUT THE 23RD FLOOR OF THE STAIRWELL IN TOWER THEY HAD STOPPED THERE BECAUSE SOMEONE WAS SUFFERING
FROM CHEST PAINS AND BELIEVE IT WAS FIREMAN THAT
WAS SUFFERING CHEST PAINS AND THEY STOPPED TO ASSIST HIM
THE OFFICER LIEUTENANT ATLAS CONTINUED UP ON HIS WAY AND HAD HEARD THE LAST REPORT THAT HE GAVE WAS ON THE 44TH FLOOR HE SAID HE WAS ON THE 44TH FLOOR AND CONTINUING UP THAT HE WAS GOING TO TRY TO GET WATER ON THE FIRE
AT THAT POINT ENGINE 10 THE ENTIRE WASNT WITH HIM HE WAS ON HIS OWN POSSIBLY WITH MEMBERS OF ANOTHER COMPANY
OFFICER OF LADDER 10 THE LAST HEARD FROM HIM HE WAS ON ABOUT THE 31ST FLOOR THAT WAS THE LAST
RADIO TRANSMISSION HEARD FROM LADDER 10 AND WOULD IMAGINE THAT HE CONTINUED UP WITH LIEUTENANT ATLAS
GUYS
21
COMPANY

MORIBITO
BECAUSE THEY HAD GOTTEN IN AT THE SAME TIME
IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD YOU ARE WELCOME TO DO IT OTHERWISE THIS IS THE END OF THE
INTERVIEW
ADVENTURE
NO THATS PRETTY MUCH IT THATS OUR
BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY THANKS FOR YOUR TIME THE WITNESS THANK YOU
22
File No. 9110355
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         FIREMAN JOHN OTTRANDO
   Interview Date:  December 14, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
J. OTTRANDO 2
          CHIEF KEMLY:  Today's date is December
     17th, 2001.  The time is 1100 hours.  That's
     a.m.  This is Battalion Chief Robert Kemly
     of the Fire Department of the City of New
     York.  I'm conducting an interview with John
     Ottrando, fireman first grade, of Engine
     Company 24 of the Fire Department of the
     City of New York.
          The interview is taking place in the
     quarters of Engine 24 regarding the events
     of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Fireman Ottrando, tell me what happened
to you on September 11th, 2001.
     A.   My company and I pulled up to Vesey and
West Street, parked on that corner.  My company
got off the rig.  They took their rollups.  They
went into the north tower.  I stayed there.  I
hooked up to the standpipe system that was there.
          After I hooked up, I went into the
lobby of the north tower and I saw the command
post being set up there.  I noticed some people
on the floor that were badly burned.  One man was
deceased, and there was a woman there that was
very badly burned.
J. OTTRANDO 3
          I went out to get EMS to come in to
help her.  They were very busy, and I just asked
them for some blankets.  I went back into the
lobby of the north tower, and I covered the
civilians up.  I stayed with the woman until EMS
came in, and I helped them take her away.
          I saw Battalion 2 in the lobby of the
north tower.  After that I stayed there a few
more minutes, and then I went out to my company.
We were stretching hose.  I saw the second plane
hit the south tower.
          Then we really didn't have anything to
do because we were all hooked up and everything.
There were people jumping everywhere, and we
really couldn't help them.
          I saw Lieutenant Giammona.  He asked me
if I had a spare mask.  I told him I did not.
Somebody had already taken it.  I saw him go into
the north tower.  That was the last time I saw
him.  He was by himself, as far as I could tell.
          I was outside, still playing with some
hose, when the south tower fell.  I
could see debris falling.  I saw the dust cloud
coming towards me, and I took off and I went
J. OTTRANDO 4
behind a car on Vesey Street.  Day turned to
night, and I couldn't breathe that well.
          So I felt my way north up West Street
by sense of direction.  Some women grabbed me and
she threw me against the building and she was
washing my eyes out.
          Then I was on the corner of -- I was on
West Street, north on West Street, and then the
second tower fell.  I never got back to my rig.
          That's about it.
     Q.   Where did you go then?
     A.   Then I stayed north.  I never went back
south.  I never went back downtown.  I went to
Broadway because they told me there was a command
post over there.  I couldn't find my company.  I
found them one at a time.
          A couple of guys that were in my
company that weren't on duty were there.  I found
them.  I could not find 5 Truck at all.  I was
looking for them.
          That's about it.
     Q.   That was it?
     A.   That was it.
     Q.   I just have a couple of questions.  You
J. OTTRANDO 5
said you went down there with the company.  Do
you know what your assignment was, the first due?
It was Engine 24.
     A.   Right.
     Q.   You were the chauffeur?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Were you on the second alarm
assignment?
     A.   Second alarm, yes, second alarm.
     Q.   And when you went into the command
post, you saw some chiefs and stuff.
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   Do you know who the chiefs were?
     A.   I saw Chief Hayden, I saw the
Commissioner, I saw Chief McGovern.
     Q.   This was in the north tower?
     A.   Lobby of the north tower.
     Q.   Chief McGovern?
     A.   Yes, and his aide.
     Q.   When you said you saw Battalion 2,
that's who you meant?
A. Yes.
     Q.   Any other companies at the command post
that you can remember?
J. OTTRANDO 6
     A.   I can't remember exactly.  I saw
companies come in.  I saw 5 Truck go in.  I
remember seeing 5 Truck go in.  I can't remember
the numbers of the other companies coming in.
     Q.   And as far as chiefs, those guys --
     A.   Those are the chiefs I saw, yes.
     Q.   Like I said, you were with Engine
Company 24.
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Lieutenant Giammona that you mentioned,
he was off duty, but he was one of the officers
in Ladder 5 Truck that responded by himself?
     A.   Yes.  He was off duty.
     Q.   Okay.  Unless you can remember any
other companies that were parked behind you --
     A.   I saw 7 Engine parked south of the
north tower in the street on West Street.  I
can't remember other companies.
     Q.   When you said you were outside
stretching hoses with your company, did they then
subsequently go inside the building?
     A.   No.  My company was in the building at
that time, and I was being helped by Fireman
Jimmy Miller, who was off duty and had come up.
J. OTTRANDO 7
He was helping me stretch the lines.
     Q.   Do you happen to know where 24 Engine
went?  Up B, A stair or anything like that?
     A.   I couldn't say for sure.  I think it
was B stair.
     Q.   So you weren't with them when they went
to the command post and ended up getting an
assignment?
     A.   No, no.  I was preoccupied with helping
those two civilians, so I really didn't notice
where they went.
     Q.   Okay.  Anybody else you can remember at
the command post?
     A.   No.  Those are the only people I
remember seeing.
     Q.   Since you were outside, did you see
them at any point set up a command post outside?
     A.   Outside, no.
     Q.   Okay.  Anything else?  If you don't
have anything else, that's the end of the
interview.  Do you have anything to add?
     A.   No.
     Q.   Okay.  Thanks a lot.
File No. 9110356
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER EDWARD GANASSA
   Interview Date:  December 17, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
E. GANASSA 2
          CHIEF BURNS:  Today's date is December
     17th, 2001.  The time is 3:02 p.m.  I'm
     Battalion Chief Robert Burns, New York City
     Fire Department, Safety Battalion,
     conducting an interview with --
          FIREFIGHTER GANASSA:  Edward Ganassa,
     Engine 312, Battalion 49, Division 14.
          CHIEF BURNS:  This interview is in
     regards to the events of September 11th,
     2001.
     Q.   If you would, Ed, in your own words,
just tell us what happened on that day.
     A.   Okay.  I was working the Monday night
and Tuesday day.  On Tuesday morning, 9/11, the
computer went off to respond to the staging area
on Huntspoint Avenue and Vernon Boulevard.
          We proceeded to the staging area.  We
lined up with a few other companies that were
there.  We stood there approximately 25 to 30
minutes.  I'm getting the call to respond in to
the Trade Center.  I don't know the time.
          We went through the Midtown Tunnel,
following in a caravan with other rigs, and we
stationed our rig on West Street.  At that time
E. GANASSA 3
we got our Scott packs on and started walking
with other firemen towards the north tower.
          About five to ten minutes after
arriving, I saw one to two jumpers -- two jumpers
exactly jump off the tower, and about two to
three minutes later, the tower fell down.  We
were covered with dust.  We were not hit by any
large debris.
          After the dust settled, we found the 49
Battalion and his aide, the chief and his aide,
and we assisted the companies in searching for
firemen and civilians.  We stayed there until
approximately 11, 11:30 at night, and then we
were told to respond back to our firehouse.
     Q.   When you went in, Ed, do you know
approximately what your location was where you
saw or heard the building about to come down?
     A.   We were at West Street, and there was a
small pedestrian bridge.  We were probably about
200 to 300 feet north of that bridge.  There was
a staging area, I believe.  It was a secondary
staging area.
     Q.   When the building started to come down,
which way did you run?
E. GANASSA 4
     A.   Uptown, north.
     Q.   When you were the staging area, did you
see any other units?
     A.   At the staging area?  Where I parked
the rig, there were many rigs there.  I
recognized the ones from our company:  262, 307,
263 I believe was there.  At the staging area
there were no rigs; it was just chiefs and
Commissioners.
     Q.   And that staging area was north of the
bridge?
     A.   Yeah, it should be just north of the
bridge if I remember correctly.
     Q.   Did you guys ever come south of that or
you stayed there waiting?
     A.   Not until after the collapse.  After
the collapse and the dust lifted slightly, then
we proceeded south of there.
     Q.   Thanks.
          CHIEF BURNS:  That's the end of our
     interview.  It's 3:06 p.m.
File No. 9110357
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER MICHAEL BEEHLER
   Interview Date:  December 17, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
M. BEEHLER
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KING:  Today's date is
     December 17, 2001.  The time is 1616 hours.  This
     is Battalion Chief Stephen King with the Safety
     Battalion, FDNY.  I'm conducting an interview with
     the following individual:  Firefighter Michael
     Beehler, Firefighter 6 grade from Ladder company
     110, who had the irons position on September 11.
     This interview is regarding the events of
     September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Mike, you can start whenever you want.
     A.   Okay.  That morning I was sitting in the
house watch at about quarter to nine, when a few
Lieutenants or a few officers were out front.  We had
the apparatus doors open.  We were just finishing
checking out the rig and one of the Lieutenants from
the field comm. unit had said that he saw smoke and he
said wow, what is that over there.  Do they have
something going in Manhattan or is that just a
compactor fire.
          I was on the house watch and I said I don't
know.  Let me turn the radio on, so I went in and
turned the radio on.  With that I heard a second alarm
being transmitted at the World Trade Center.
          With that, I notified my officer, because we
M. BEEHLER
3
go on box 8031 to the World Trade Center on a second
alarm or greater.  So I let him know that we were
probably going to be going.  Went out and got geared up
and came back into the office, turned the TV on and we
saw what they were saying was a plane crash into the
north tower.
          With that, we were just waiting to get sent
and we got sent about 3, 4 minutes after that.  We all
got on the rig.  Went over with 31, Battalion 31
followed us.  As we were going over, I remember looking
out the window of the rig and seeing a lot of smoke and
saying wow, this is something.  I remember hearing over
the radio that they had a lot of fire there and they
had jumpers and what not.
          As we got to Manhattan -- we went over the
Brooklyn Bridge.  As we got to Manhattan, there was a
lot traffic, a lot of people on the road.  We got
pulled up.  We had came down Broadway and as we got to
Liberty Street, I believe -- yes, we got to Liberty
Street and made the right off of Broadway on to Liberty
and we were on Liberty between Broadway and I believe
Church and we had gotten off the rig with Battalion
31.  We were speaking to them on where we should go
because we were assigned to the north tower.
M. BEEHLER
4
          I remember just hearing an explosion that
basically I can't describe the sound of.  It was
actually the second plane crashing in.  We were on the
side, we were on the south side of the south tower when
it came down -- I mean when the plane crashed in.  I
just basically said to myself something is not right
here.  It didn't feel right to me.  I told my boss,
just I said to him this doesn't feel right.  We don't
belong here.  He said yes, I know, come on.
          As we looked up though, when it happened,
alls we saw was a big ball of flames and the flames
went away.  We saw a lot of smoke and debris was
heading everywhere.  People were just running.  People
scattering like -- the best way to say it is like a
scattering of roaches when you turn the lights on.
People were going anywhere that they could.
          We got back in the rig, we backed up on to
Broadway, went up to, I believe it's Battery Park or
wherever it was.  We went down, made the next right,
which was back on Church Street.  We came back down on
to Church Street.  We parked the rig in front of, I
think 5 World Trade Center it was.  Looking on the map
here.
          We got out, grabbed all our stuff.  I had the
M. BEEHLER
5
irons, I grabbed the irons, the bunny tool and we all
grabbed extra cylinders and we started making our way
up towards Vesey.  We made it down to Vesey and on to
West Street, walking into the northwest corner of the
north tower.  They had a mini command post set up, I
believe it was from the First Division.
          We walked in, Lieutenant Mera, the officer,
he said, he told us to stand to the side while he went
and got an assignment.  We all put our stuff down.
Engine 207, came in, followed us in and the guys that
were working from the engine, the three guys that were
on the back step came in with the officer.  The officer
went to the desk and they came over and joined us where
we were standing.
          We were only there for maybe about 2 minutes
when Lieutenant Mera came over.  He said come on, we
are going up to the 21 floor.  There are reports of
people trapped there.  We had a Battalion Chief with
us.  I don't know the Chief's name.
     Q.   Chief Picciotto?
     A.   I believe so.  We all picked our stuff up.
He said he thought there was a bank of elevators that
were working.  So we went up to the mezzanine, I
believe it was.  We went up the escalator to the
M. BEEHLER
6
mezzanine.  There was a bank of elevators there that
were still in service, so we took that up to, I believe
the 15 or 16th floor.  We got up and then we walked up
to the 23 floor from there in the B staircase, I
believe it was.
          People were coming down.  People were calm in
the staircase, they didn't really seem too
overanxious.  They were saying god bless you, this and
that.  We made our way up to the 23 floor.  We dropped
our stuff that we didn't need.  At that point I just
put the irons with my (inaudible) for the can.  We went
back down to the 21 floor and we started just searching
the 21st floor.  All the doors were locked.  We were
forcing all the doors.  There was nobody on the floor.
We practically searched the entire floor.  We hadn't
found anybody.
          There was one last section that we went to go
search and as we went in there, two of us -- two guys
went to the right and two guys went to the left.  I was
one of the guys that went to the left.  It was like an
office there where it was like a split office almost.
I was by I guess the outer part of the building and I
just remember feeling the building starting to shake
and this tremendous tremendous like roar and I just
M. BEEHLER
7
-- I kind of didn't even notice it, but like out of
the corner of my eye, I saw out of the building, I saw
a shadow coming down.
          At that point I thought it was the upper part
of the north tower that had just basically like toppled
over, fell off.  I didn't actually see the building
part go by me, because I think I was on the opposite
side.  But I just remember feeling this tremendous
tremendous shake and hearing this, like, noise.  Again
I can't describe.
          What I did was I ended up running out.  I ran
into the staircase where my officer and the rest of the
guys that were with us at that time, we jumped into the
staircase and nobody really knew what was going on.
After that, everything had stopped.  The boss told me
and Artie Riccio, who was driving, to go check out the
part where we just were down the hall a little bit, so
the two of us went back down and we had searched the
part where we had just been about 5 minutes prior to
that.
          All the windows in that area were all blown
out.  It was like a big office, it was a computer
office.  I don't know what they were doing there.  But
all the windows were blown out and dust was coming in.
M. BEEHLER
8
Again we just searched there, there was no structural
damage at that point on the 21 floor.  We made our way
out and as we were making our way back down to the
hallway where the officer was, I heard on the radio, a
Chief come over the radio.  I don't know his name.
          He said this is Chief so and so.  I
personally am ordering everybody out of the building
now.  Anybody in the north tower get out now.
Lieutenant Mera said to all of us, he said come on, we
got to get out.  He said make sure to stay together.
We are all going to get out, we are all going to go
down together.  We are all going to get out together.
Once we get out, we will decide where we are going to
go.  Once we get downstairs we will decide where we are
going to go.
          With that we went downstairs.  There was
another truck company ahead of us.  What we did was we
basically piggy backed towards where --
          BATTALION CHIEF KING:  Time is 1626 hours.
     I'm stopping the interview.
          The time is 1702 hours.  We are restarting
     the interview, continuing the interview with
     Firefighter Beehler.  Okay, Mike.
     A.   At the time when I heard the loud noise and
M. BEEHLER
9
felt the building shake, we all ended up back in the
staircase after re-searching the one area.  We had
gotten the order to evacuate the building.  Lieutenant
Mera told us all to stay together and as we started
making our way down, we, like I said, we piggy backed
floors with another truck company, forcing each door on
the way down.  Like they took the odd floors, we took
the even floors, to make sure there was nobody on that
floor and make sure that everybody heard the evacuation
order.
          We got down to the 9th floor and from there
down it was very congested.  It felt like we waited on
each landing for about 30 seconds to a minute, because
the staircases were packed with members of the Fire
Department that were evacuating.  So you did get to 9,
then you got down to 8-1/2.  Felt like you waited
another 30 seconds to a minute.  Got down to 8 and
continued to go down.
          When we got down to the lobby I just remember
seeing all the windows in the north tower on the lobby
floor blown out and there was like dust and debris
everywhere.  I actually remember picking up a helmet,
thinking it was a Chief's helmet, and I said to
Lieutenant Mera, I said, wow, some Chief dropped his
M. BEEHLER
10
helmet here and as I picked it up, my fingers smudged a
little piece of it off.  I saw it was a fireman's
helmet.  The Chief came other over, took the helmet.
          As we were walking out, we walked out the
same place where we came in, and I remember seeing the
board there by itself with nobody there.  There was a
guy actually standing outside the building telling us
if it was safe or not to come out because he said there
were jumpers coming down at that time.
          He said come on, come on, go.  We went out
and we stopped right outside the building.  We actually
sat on 3 truck's bumper I remember just because a few
friends of mine were in the company.  I remember
stopping and we all sat down and Pauly Hyland, who had
the OV, said if this building comes down run up against
this garage.  We were under the foot bridge.  He said
run up against this garage, we might have a chance to
live.
          With that Lieutenant Mera turned to us and
said come on, why don't we go down a little further.
We all got up.  We started walking.  We were walking
west on West Street, continued to go and as we kept on
walking we stopped at a rig.  I got some water.
          BATTALION CHIEF KING:  Time is 1705 hours.
M. BEEHLER
11
     I'm stopping this interview.
          The time is 1706 hours.  We are restarting
     the interview again.
     A.   We continued to walk west on West Street and
we finally had stopped, I believe it was at engine
224's rig and we weren't there for more than 30 seconds
when Paul Hyland, again, the OV said something to the
effect of oh, my god, it's coming down, run for your
lives.  Turned around to see the north tower coming
down.  At this time I had just taken my mask off and I
just laid it down.  I went to grab my mask and as I
went to grab it, 10 guys just caught me and just swept
me up with them and I just started running, figuring
maybe I could out run it.
          I remember turning back around and seeing it
right behind me and basically said this is it.  I
figured I was going to die right then and there.  I put
my head down and as I put my head down, I just started
walking, I saw there was a mask laying in the middle of
the street.  I looked around, there was nobody around
it.  I just remember, I said, all right, I'm going to
pick it up.  I picked it up.
          As I was putting it on my back, I got covered
in the dust cloud.  I went to put the mask on, I had
M. BEEHLER
12
turned the cylinder on.  Couldn't see anything.  I
wasn't able to breathe.  I just remember trying to put
the mask on.  The regulator face piece came apart and
tried -- I was able to get the regulator and the face
piece together.  Took a hit -- took a hit breath of
air.
          At that point I was looking for a place to go
because there was debris, nothing big coming down,
because we were about a block, block and a half away
but just to get someplace where it was safe because I
didn't know what else was going to happen.  I ended up
finding an ambulance.  I jumped into the ambulance.
They brought me in.  I stayed there until the dust
cleared.  Tried to get Lieutenant Mera on the radio,
but there was a lot of radio traffic.  Guys giving
Maydays and everything like that.
          I just started walking up West Street because
I knew they were ahead of me.  I finally saw them by
Stuyvesant High School.  We got together and there were
4 guys there.  I was the fifth.  Mike Brodbeck, who was
detailed from the 210, he was the sixth guy.
Lieutenant Mera knew he was all right.  He was being
treated by EMS because he hurt his shoulder, running
into an ambulance or something.
M. BEEHLER
13
          We just basically hung out there for a little
while and as the day went on, we basically just sat
around, waiting to get some more orders.  I remember
seeing a lot of guys coming in.  At that point guys
grabbed, they took some of our radios and they took
some of the tools that we had left.  They went up and
they tried to, I guess do some searching and whatever
they could do.
          I think it was around like 6:00 later on that
night, we all decided, all the guys from the house had
come in and we found-- we had known at that point that
207 was unaccounted for so, basically we just said
let's see if we can find them, find a rig, find
something, find our rig, because we didn't know
anything that was going on.  This is including -- this
was after 7 World Trade Center had collapsed also.
          We went searching.  We searched for about an
hour and a half.  We ended up finding our rig about a
few blocks away from where we parked it.  We had no
luck finding 207 or 207's rig.  Basically we just came
back here and that was it.  We went to the chart that
we were on, 24 on, 24 off.  We just went on with that.
          BATTALION CHIEF KING:  All right, Mike.  It's
     1710 hours.  This interview is concluded.

FILE NO 9110359
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER DEAN BELTRAI4I
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 17 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY MAUREEN MCCORMICK

BATTALION CHIEF BURNS TODAYS DATE IS
CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT SAFETY BATTALION CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH
FIREFIGHTER BELTRAI4I FIREFIGHTER DEAN BELTRAMI
BATTALION CHIEF BURNS ENGINE COMPANY 260 IN
REGARD TO THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001
IF YOU WOULD DEAN JUST TELL US IN YOUR OWN
WORDS WHAT HAPPENED ON THAT DAY
WE RESPONDED TO THE ALARM WE RESPONDED TO STAGING AREA IN QUEENS BY THE MIDTOWN TUNNEL
WHEN WE GOT THERE WE WAITED FOR OTHER UNITS TO ARRIVE IN THE BATTALION THE BATTALION CHIEF
ARRIVED HE SAID THAT WE WERE GOING TO WAIT UNTIL THE TUNNEL WAS CHECKED FOR BOMBS BEFORE WE WENT THROUGH THE TUNNEL THERE WAS PROBABLY MAYBE CLOSE TO HALF HOUR WAIT THERE THEN WE PROCEEDED THROUGH THE TUNNEL
WHILE CROSSING MIDTOWN OR BELIEVE JUST WHEN WE WERE COMING OUT OF THE TUNNEL WE HEARD REPORTS
DECEMBER 17 2001 THE TIME IS 340
IM BATTALION CHIEF ROBERT BURNS NEW YORK
OF COLLAPSE IT WAS LIKE
BAD THING BUT
WAS THINKING PERSONALLY THOUGHT COUPLE OF FLOORS THOUGHT IT WAS DIDNT HEAR CATASTROPHIC COLLAPSE
PM

BELTRAMI
OVER THE DEPARTMENT RADIO SO PERSONALLY DIDNT KNOW
IF IT WAS CATASTROPHIC COLLAPSE OR JUST MINOR COLLAPSE OR WHATEVER
AFTER AWHILE GOT HEARD THE WORD CATASTROPHIC COLLAPSES OCCURRED AND THEN REALIZED THAT ONE BUILDING THAT WOULD BE THE SOUTH TOWER CAME DOWN BUILDING
SO WE RESPONDED WE WERE COMING ACROSS 34TH STREET WE GOT TO THE WESTSIDE HIGHWAY PROCEEDED SOUTH AROUND WHERE HEARD THE THERE WAS GUY ON THE DEPARTMENT RADIO ON THE RIG SCREAMING THAT HE WAS TRAPPED UNDER RIG IT WAS EXTREMELY FRANTIC
SCREAMING AND IT KIND OF GOT YOU NERVOUS
THIS GUY IS SCREAMING FOR HIS LIFE AND THEY CANT FIND HIM
SO THEN WE PROCEEDED DOWN WEST STREET AND
WHEN HEARD KEVIN SHEA
HANDIE TALKIE REPORT OF FIREFIGHTER
KNEW KEVIN SHEA FROM ANOTHER COMPANY THAT
WORKED AT
HEARD KEVIN SHEA IS SAFE HES IN AN AMBULANCE
KEVIN SHEA IS MISSING IMMEDIATELY AFTER
THERE WASNT MUCH OTHER WASNT HEARING MUCH HANDIE TALKIE RECEPTION OTHERWISE BECAUSE HAD
THE NOZZLE POSITION DIDNT HAVE RADIO
THE CHIEF HAD US PARK QUITE DISTANCE AWAY

BELTRAMI
AT LEAST TEN MAYBE CLOSE TO 15 BLOCKS IN MY OPINION AWAY FROM THE SOUTH TOWER IM SORRY TOWER NO ON
WEST STREET ON WESTSIDE HIGHWAY AND WAS THINKING THIS IS AN AWFUL LONG WALK TO GO HOW ARE WE GOING TO
GET DOWN THERE WE GRABBED ROLL UPS WE GRABBED SPARE BOTTLES
WE BEGAN TO WALK PRETTY MUCH MY WHOLE BATTALION WAS WALKING DOWN THE WESTSIDE HIGHWAY
TOGETHER WHEN WE GOT TO ABOUT BLOCK SAY ABOUT BLOCK AND HALF NORTH OF THE NORTH TOWER IN BETWEEN
BARCLAY AND VESEY STREET WE DROPPED OUR GEAR TO GET READY TO ENTER THE BUILDINGS AND THE LIEUTENANT AND OFFICERS THAT WERE WITH MY BATTALION PROCEEDED TO TRY TO REPORT IN TO THE CHIEF
JUST MAYBE ABOUT MINUTE HAD GONE BY AND
SOMEBODY SAID LOOK THE BUILDING IS STARTING TO BULGE WE LOOKED UP AND YOU COULD SEE THE ENTIRE
FACADE STARTING TO BUCKLE ON THE UPPER FLOORS
IMMEDIATELY NOBODY SAID ANYTHING WE JUST TURNED AND RAN AS FAST AS WE POSSIBLY COULD
COULD SEE THAT NO HEAVY DEBRIS WAS GOING TO HIT ME BUT STILL RAN AS FAST AS COULD ALL THE WAY
TO STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL AND GOT TO ABOUT BEFORE GOT TO STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL THE CLOUD
RIGHT

BELTRAMI
CAUGHT UP TO ME
CONTINUED TO RUN AT SLOWER SPEED UNTIL
WAS OUT OF THE CLOUD STOPPED BECAUSE THERE WAS NORTH WIND DONNED MY MASK AND WENT BACK INTO THE
CLOUD TO MAKE SURE WE COULD SEE IF WE COULD REGROUP SOME OF MY MEMBERS THAT WERE WITH ME AND WE WENT BACK INTO THE CLOUD TO SEE IF WE COULD FIND ANYBODY THAT WAS HURT OR AND WE PROCEEDED TO HEAD BACK TOWARDS THE BUILDINGS
WE GOT TO WITHIN HUNDRED FEET OR SO OF WHERE THE NORTH TOWER STOOD AND THE CHIEF ORDERED US BACK SAYING THAT THERE WAS DONT KNOW THE CHIEFS NAME BUT HE ORDERED US BACK SAYING THERE WAS GAS MAIN UNDERNEATH US AND IT COULD BLOW
WE PROCEEDED TO GO BACK ONE BLOCK TO THAT
POST THEN SLOWLY BUT SURELY EVERY TWO MINUTES OR SO WHEN WE STARTED TO REGROUP WE WERE PULLED BACK FURTHER
AND FURTHER AND FURTHER UNTIL WE WERE BEHIND UNTIL
WE WERE PAST STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL
AT THAT TIME THERE WAS BOMB THREAT IN
STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL AND WE EVACUATED THAT AREA AND WENT FURTHER UP WEST STREET UNTIL WE WERE GOOD
DISTANCE AWAY PROBABLY IM NOT SURE OF THE STREET WHICH STREET IT WAS ON BUT IT WAS QUITE DISTANCE

AWAY
BELTRAMI
THROUGHOUT THE REST OF THE DAY WE WERENT PUT BACK IN TO WORK WE WERE CONSIDERED TO HAVE WORKED
ALREADY BECAUSE WE WERE COVERED IN DUST AND IN THE EVENING WE GOT TO DO LITTLE BIT OF WORK BUT THAT WAS IT AND THEN WE WERE SENT BACK TO QUARTERS
BATTALION CHIEF BURNS THAT CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW THANKS DEAN
PM
THE TIME IS 345

FILE NO 9110360
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW LIEUTENANT BRENDAN WHELAN
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 17 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELIZABETH SANTAMARIA

WHELAN
BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN TODAYS DATE
PM
SAFETY BATTALION OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK AM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH LIEUTENANT BRENDAN WHELAN OF ENGINE 35 IN THE QUARTERS OF ENGINE 35
LIEUTENANT JUST GIVE US THE FACTS AS YOU RECALL THEM
OKAY 35 ENGINE RESPONDED DOWN TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AFTER THE SECOND PLANE HAD HIT
BELIEVE IT WAS THE SECOND FIFTH ALARM THAT WAS
GIVEN WE WERE ASSIGNED DOWN ON THAT 35 ENGINE WAS THE STAGING AREA FOR NUMBER OF THE BRONX
COMPANIES WE WAITED UNTIL THOSE COMPANIES ARRIVED AND WE ALL WENT DOWN AS ONE UNIT TOGETHER IT WAS ABOUT SIX OR SEVEN OF US DIFFERENT UNITS
WE WERE TOLD TO REPORT IN TO COMMAND POST
THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AT VESEY AND WEST ON OUR WAY DOWN THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY WE HAD HEARD OF
COLLAPSE OF THE FIRST BUILDING AT THE FIRST BUILDING WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN WORLD TRADE BELIEVE WAS THE FIRST ONE TO COME DOWN IS THAT CORRECT
IS 17 2001 TH TIME IS 254 THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF DENNIS KENAHAN

YES DIDNT
COLLAPSE MYSELF COLLAPSE AFTER THE
WHELAN
TH XT TH THOUGHT IT WAS AN ISOLATED INITIAL COLLAPSE WE HEARD
NUMBER OF PEOPLE GIVING MAYDAYS OVER THE HAND
OVER THE DEPARTMENT RADIO AS WE GOT DOWN TO WE COULD ONLY GET OUR RIG INTO ABOUT BARCLAY AND WEST WE LEFT OUR RIG THERE AND WE WALKED UP TO VESEY TO
STREET
UPON MY GETTING TO VESEY WE COULDNT FIND THE COMMAND POST AND
WE STILL HADNT REALIZED THAT THE WHOLE BUILDING HAD COME DOWN TOOK MY CREW AS WE
STARTED TO HEAD TOWARDS THE PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY THAT CONNECTS
THE NORTHERN ONE YES
THE AMERICAN EXPRESS WITH WORLD TRADE WE GOT TO THAT AREA AND AS WE APPROACHED
WORLD TRADE STARTED TO COLLAPSE AT THAT POINT TOLD MY MEN WE WERE CARRYING ALL OUR GEAR TO DROP OUR GEAR AND TO BASICALLY HIGH TAIL IT UP THE
WEST SIDE HIGHWAY AS QUICK AS WE COULD
VESEY

WHELAN
WE GOT SHELTER FROM THE COLLAPSE GUESS IT
BARCLAY AND MURRAY STR AND AFTER THE COLLAPSE WE IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE
COLLAPSE WAS ABLE TO REGROUP MY CREW AND WE HEADED BACK INTO THE COLLAPSE ZONE AND WE OPERATED AT THIS
TIME AT THE COLLAPSED PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE AND WORLD TRADE CENTER
WE OPERATED THERE FOR IT WAS QUITE WHILE ABOUT THREE HOURS WE STRETCHED THE LINE OFF 24
ENGINE WAS PUMPING THERE WE AUGMENTED WATER TO THAT TO NUMBER OF HYDRANTS IN THE AREA WE STRETCHED THE LINE OFF 24 BECAUSE AT THE TIME THERE WAS LOT OF CAR FIRES AND THERE WAS PARKING LOT THERE DONT SEE ON THE MAP HERE
SO WE WERE DOING SEARCHES STRETCHING LINES
WE WERE DOING EVERYTHING THAT WE COULD POSSIBLY DO WE WERE KIND OF OVERWHELMED AT THE TASK AT HAND LIKE SAID WE OPERATED FOR ABOUT THREE THREE AND
HALF HOURS AND THEN WE WENT TO TAKE BREATHER AND AS WE MOVED OUT OF THE AREA WE WERENT PERMITTED
BACK IN THE AREA BY THAT TIME BY NUMBER OF CHIEFS THAT WERE IN CHARGE THEN WE SIGNED IN AT THE COMMAND POST AND WAITED TO BE USED WHICH WE WERE NEVER USED WE ENDED UP TAKEN UP OUT OF THERE MAYBE

WHELAN ABOUT 10 1100 OCLOCK THAT NIGHT
EARLIER WHEN HEARD MAYDAYS
REMEMBER ANY SPECIFIC COMPANIES DO YOU REMEMBER ANY SPECIFIC INFORMATION ABOUT THE MAYDAYS
REMEMBER THE DISPATCHERS ASKING WHO WAS
GIVING THE MAYDAYS OVER THE AIR DONT REALLY RECALL WHO WAS GIVING THE MAYDAYS BECAUSE THERE
WERE NUMBER OF THEM AND THEY WERE STEPPING ON EACH OTHER ON THE DEPARTMENT RADIO REMEMBER THE
DISPATCHER WAS ACTUALLY ASKING IDENTIFY YOURSELF WHO ARE YOU WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED AND DONT
RECALL THEM ANSWERING THEIR LOCATIONS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT
THATS IT
YES
BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN THANKS LOT
BRENDAN THE TIME NOW IS 300 PM AND THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW

FILE NO 9110361
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW CAPTAIN WILLIAM MCLAUGHLIN
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 17 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

MCLAUGHLIN
CHIEF BURNS TODAYS DATE IS DECEMBER 17TH 2001 THE TIME IS 242 PM IM BATTALION CHIEF ROBERT BURNS SAFETY BATTALION NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH
CAPTAIN MCLAUGHLIN
MCLAUGHLIN CAPTAIN ENGINE
CHIEF BURNS THIS INTERVIEW IS IN
REGARDS TO THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
IF YOU WOULD BILL IN YOUR OWN WORDS JUST TELL US WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAY
ALL RIGHT 312 RESPONDED FROM QUARTERS AFTER THE SECOND PLANE HIT THE WORLD TRADE
CENTER WE WERE ACTUALLY WATCHING IT ON TELEVISION WE WERE TOLD TO RENDEZVOUS ON THE
QUEENS SIDE OF THE MIDTOWN TUNNEL AND WAIT THERE FOR FURTHER ORDERS
WE MET THERE WITH BUNCH OF OTHER
COMPANIES FROM QUEENS INCLUDING OUR OWN 49 BATTALION FROM HERE THE 45 BATTALION AND WE
WERE TOLD TO STAND FAST ON THE QUEENS SIDE OF THE MIDTOWN TUNNEL
WE WERE UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THE
WILLIAM 312

MCLAUGHLIN
POLICE WERE SECURING THE TUNNEL FROM ANY SORT OF TERRORIST THREAT ALTHOUGH THAT MAY NOT BE THE CASE THATS WHAT WE WERE UNDER THE IMPRESSION
WE COULD ACTUALLY SEE THE TOWERS
FROM OUR LOCATION ON THE QUEENS SIDE OF
BURNING
THE TUNNEL AFTER WAITING ABOUT 25 OR 30
MINUTES WE PROCEEDED THROUGH THE MIDTOWN TUNNEL WE WENT ACROSS TOWN TO THE WEST SIDE
AT THAT TIME WE WERE GETTING SOME VERY SCARY RADIO TRAFFIC OVER THE MANHATTAN FREQUENCY
ABOUT PEOPLE TRAPPED IN APPARATUS WE DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON BUT THINK AT THAT TIME THE FIRST TOWER HAD COLLAPSED
ONCE WE REACHED THE WEST SIDE WE WENT DOWN GUESS IT WAS WEST STREET FROM MIDTOWN AND THE CLOSEST WE COULD GET BECAUSE OF THE NUMEROUS
APPARATUS IN THE AREA WAS APPROXIMATELY SIX OR SEVEN BLOCKS NORTH OF THE FINANCIAL DISTRICT ON
WEST STREET AND WE JUST PARKED RIGHT IN THE BACK OF THE APPARATUS THAT PULLED UP IN FRONT OF US
WE THEN PROCEEDED TO TAKE ROLLUPS MASKS WITH EXTRA CYLINDERS SEARCH ROPE
STANDPIPE KIT AND PROCEEDED ON FOOT DOWN WEST STREET TOWARDS THE TOWER

MCLAUGHLIN
AT THIS TIME ONCE AGAIN DIDNT KNOW THAT THE TOWER HAD COLLAPSED BECAUSE ALL YOU
COULD SEE WAS LOT OF SMOKE AND DUST THE NORTH TOWER WAS STANDING AND BURNING AS WE WERE WALKING DOWNTOWN WE COULD ACTUALLY SEE PEOPLE JUMPING OUT THE UPPER FLOORS OF THE NORTH TOWER EVERYBODY HAD VERY BAD FEELING WHICH CAME
TRUE
WE DID REACH THE AREA WHERE WE COULDNT GO ANY FURTHER BELIEVE THAT WAS LOOKING AT
THE MAP SOUTH OF THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE AND SOUTH OF VESEY STREET ON WEST STREET AT THAT POINT TOLD THE MEMBERS TO DROP THEIR MASKS CYLINDERS
TAKE THEIR COAT AND HELMET OFF AND STAND FAST WHILE WENT OVER TO THE COMMAND POST IF COULD FIND IT BECAUSE THERE WAS SO MUCH CONFUSION AT THE SCENE AND FIND OUT WHAT THEY WANT US TO DO
AT THAT POINT IN TIME HAD FULL
EXPECTATION OF GOING INTO THE NORTH TOWER BEING THE CLOSEST ONE TO OUR LOCATION ONCE AGAIN
STILL DIDNT BELIEVE OR KNOW THAT THE FIRST TOWER
HAD IN FACT COLLAPSED
WE NO SOONER GOT OUR MASKS TURNOUT
GEAR

MCLAUGHLIN
COATS OFF PUT THEM ON THE GROUND AND SOMEBODY YELLED RUN LOOKED UP AND COULD SEE THE TOP OF THE NORTH TOWER MUSHROOM OUT IN CLOUD OF DUST AND SMOKE AND YOU COULD SEE THE TIP OF THE ANTENNA SORT OF WOBBLE THEN REALIZED WE HAVE TO RUN FROM THAT POINT ON IT WAS FALL BACK RETREAT GET AWAY
WE JUST WENT BACK UP WEST STREET NORTHBOUND ON WEST STREET UNTIL THIS CLOUD OF DUST AND DEBRIS AND SMOKE ENGULFED US IN MY PARTICULAR CASE HAD TURNED AFTER RUNNING
BIT HAD BUNKER PANTS AND BUNKER BOOTS ON AND BEING MY AGE AND WEIGHT IM NOT VERY GOOD JOGGER ESPECIALLY WITH THAT GEAR ON SO
DIDNT GET THAT FAR
TURNED AROUND TO LOOK TO SEE WHAT WAS
HAPPENING AND THE CLOUD HAD JUST ENVELOPED ME AND GOT CLOCKED IN THE HEAD WITH PIECE OF CONCRETE WHICH HAD KNOCKED ME TO THE GROUND
WAS ON MY HANDS AND KNEES ON THE GROUND AND
SAID WELL DONT THINK IM GOING TO DIE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET
SO GOT BACK UP AGAIN BUT AT THAT POINT DIDNT KNOW WHETHER WAS GOING NORTH

MCLAUGHLIN
SOUTH EAST OR WEST WAS JUST TRYING TO GET OUT OF THIS CLOUD DIDNT HAVE MASK ON AND
IT WAS VERY VERY DIFFICULT TO BREATHE BIG
CHUNKS OF HEAVY STUFF JUST GOING INTO YOUR LUNGS YOU COULDNT SEE YOUR HAND IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE
IT WAS PITCH BLACK WENT LITTLE FURTHER
FELL AGAIN CAUSING SOME MORE INJURIES TO MYSELF
EVENTUALLY AFTER WALKING WITH MY HANDS IN FRONT OF ME LIKE BLIND MAN
SAW UP AND TO THE RIGHT AND UP HIGH INSTEAD OF BEING
DARK BLACK IT WAS DARK GRAY AND THE DARK GRAY
TURNED INTO LIGHTER GRAY
THEN REALIZED THAT WHAT WAS LOOKING
AT WAS THE BRIGHT SUNSHINE WHICH WAS THERE BEFORE THIS BUILDING FELL DOWN THE SUN WAS
COMPLETELY OBLITERATED UNTIL WE GOT FAR ENOUGH AWAY FROM THIS SCENE THAT WE COULD ACTUALLY SEE AND THEN IT WAS JUST DUST AND DEBRIS AND EVERYTHING ELSE
AS WALKED OUT OF THE CLOUD WAS MET BY AN EMT WHO SAT ME DOWN AND BANDAGED UP MY HEAD GAVE ME SOME OXYGEN
FROM THERE WE TRIED TO REGROUP TRIED

MCLAUGHLIN
TO FIND MY MEN FOUND EVERYBODY IN MATTER OF
20 MINUTES EXCEPT MY CHAUFFEUR OF ALL PEOPLE EDDIE GANASSA COULDNT FIND HIM ACTUALLY
HAD HIM DECLARED MISSING
WHAT HAD HAPPENED WAS THAT SOME CHIEF
OFFICER WHO HAD LOST HIS RADIO OR NEEDED ANOTHER RADIO GRABBED EDDIE GANASSA AND TOOK HIS RADIO
FROM HIM WAS CALLING OR TRYING TO GET THROUGH THE RADIO TRAFFIC WAS OUTRAGEOUS YOU
JUST COULDNT GET THROUGH TO ANYBODY ON THE HANDY TALKY
WAS TRYING AND TRYING TO REACH HIM AND HE DIDNT EVEN HAVE RADIO SO THATS WHY
HE COULDNT ANSWER ME OBVIOUSLY HE DIDNT KNOW THAT HAD DECLARED HIM MISSING WE DID
IN ABOUT 45 MINUTES THINK FIND HIM AND DECLARED THAT HE WAS FOUND AND HE WASNT
MISSING ANY LONGER
AFTER GOT ALL MY GUYS TOGETHER AND KNEW THEY WERE SAFE AND SOUND WENT OVER TO AN
EMS UNIT PARAMEDIC UNIT AND THEY TRIED TO WASH MY EYES OUT THEY WERENT HAPPY WITH THE
WAY MY EYES WERE LOOKING AND HAD CUT ON MY HEAD AND CONCUSSION SO THEY TOOK ME OVER TO
EVENTUALLY

MCLAUGHLIN
ST VINCENTS
AT ST VINCENTS WAS TREATED FOR
LACERATED CORNEA BOTH EYES LACERATION OF THE HEAD CONCUSSION SPRAINED BACK SPRAINED KNEE
ET CETERA ET CETERA
SO FROM THAT POINT ON NEVER RETURNED
TO THE SCENE CANT OFFER YOU ANY MORE INFORMATION AS TO WHAT HAPPENED AT THE SCENE
BECAUSE HAVENT BEEN BACK SINCE NOR DO WANT TO GO BACK
WENT FROM ST VINCENTS AFTER
SPENDING AN HOUR OR TWO THERE TO THE QUARTERS OF 20 TRUCK AND THEN WAS TRANSPORTED TO THE
MEDICAL OFFICE AND WHEN BACK TO ENGINE 312 WAS BACK HERE BY ABOUT 1100 THAT NIGHT
GUESS THINK THATS THE WHOLE STORY IN
NUTSHELL AS SAID NEVER RETURNED TO THE SCENE AFTER THAT JUST MADE SURE THAT MY GUYS WERE ALL SAFE AND SOUND TURNED MY RIDING LIST
AND THEM OVER TO THE COMMAND POST AND MY HANDY TALKY WAS TAKEN BY CHIEF FROM BATTALION 50 WHO
THANKFULLY ENOUGH RETURNED IT THAT SAME EVENING OVER TO 312
SO THATS ABOUT IT

MCLAUGHLIN
CHIEF BURNS OKAY THATS THE END OF
PM
THE INTERVIEW ITS 252 THANKS BILL
File No. 9110362
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
     FIREFIGHTER SALVATORE CHILLEMI
   Interview Date:  December 17, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
S. CHILLEMI 2
          CHIEF BURNS:  Today's date is December
     17th, 2001.  The time is 12:25 p.m.  I'm
     Battalion Chief Robert Burns, Safety
     Battalion, New York Fire Department.  I'm
     conducting an interview with --
          FIREFIGHTER CHILLEMI:  Salvatore
     Chillemi.
          CHIEF BURNS:  -- from Engine 260.  This
     is in regards to the events of September
     11th, 2001.
     Q.   If you would, Sal, just tell us in your
own words what happened on that day.
     A.   We had eight or nine rigs, which I
don't recall every rig that was there going down
in the convoy down to the World Trade Center.  We
went down to West Street.  I don't know the block
that we stopped at.  It was, let's say, eight
blocks away from Vesey.  We parked our rigs, and
we were told to carry all the gear we can carry.
          We walked down West Street towards the
World Trade Center.  When we got to somewhere
between Barclay and Vesey, that's when tower --
tower two had come down before we got there.
Tower one started to come down as we were between
S. CHILLEMI 3
Barclay and Vesey.  The tower is coming down.  We
just dropped all our gear and just made an about
face and ran for our lives.  Basically that's
what happened to us in that area that I can
remember.
          As we ran back on West Street, trying
to get out of the danger zone, the cloud of dust,
smoke and everything just covered us completely.
I didn't get a chance to put my mask on at that
point.  I put it on after a few minutes as we
were trying to get out of the area.
          After the smoke lifted and cloud
lifted, we all tried to look for each other, all
our guys, because we all kind of scattered out of
the way.  We tried to regroup somewhere down on
Warren Street, I believe it was.
          The lieutenant and the rest of the guys
in the company kind of regrouped and tried to
walk back towards that area to get our gear and
see if anybody needed any kind of help in that
area.
          Basically that's all I can remember at
that point after that.
     Q.   Okay.  Great.
S. CHILLEMI 4
     CHIEF BURNS:  That concludes our
interview.
Thanks, Sal.
File No.  9110363
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER CHARLES GUTTMAN
   Interview Date:  December 17, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
C. GUTTMAN
2
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Today's date is
     December 17, 2001.  The time is 1150 a.m. I'm
     Battalion Chief Robert Burns, Safety Battalion,
     New York City Fire Department.
     Q.   Conducting an interview with?
     A.   Firefighter Charles Guttman, Ladder 128.
     Q.   In regards to the events of September 11,
2001.  Charles, if you would, in your own words, tell
us what happened on that day.
     A.   We were held up at the Queens Midtown Tunnel
and finally when we got released, the first tower, we
heard reports of it falling as we were in the tunnel.
We got to the scene, on the West Side Highway, quite a
distance from the towers, started approaching the
tower, got to about West and Vesey when the second
tower came down, started coming down, in which I turned
and ran away from the falling tower.
     Q.   Approaching the towers, were you coming from
the north, the south?
     A.   This way, so what is that.
     Q.   Coming from the north?
     A.   Coming from the north, correct.
     Q.   After this tower collapsed did you run back
to the north?
A. Back.
C. GUTTMAN
3
     Q.   When you were at the building did you see
anybody or any units in particular?
     A.   We never got close to the building.  We got
to Vesey and West.  I saw people jumping and it started
to come down.  I got covered with dust and then found
the Lieutenant, all the members in the unit, they went
into the rubble.
     Q.   Did you hear any handy talky transmissions
prior to the building coming down or after it came
down?
     A.   Negative.  Not that I remember.  I'm sure
(inaudible).  Some people running scared, police saying
get out of here.
     Q.   Is that it?
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Charlie, thanks for
     the interview, the time is 11:51 a.m.
File No. 9110364
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER FRANK VASKIS
   Interview Date:  December 17, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
F. VASKIS 2
          CHIEF KEMLY:  It is December 17th,
     2001.  The time is 1335 hours.  This is
     Battalion Chief Ronald Kemly of the Fire
     Department of the City of New York.  I am
     conducting an interview with the following
     individual, Fireman Frank Vaskis of Ladder
     Company 15 of the Fire Department of the
     City of New York.  The interview is taking
     place in the quarters of Ladder 15,
     regarding the events of September 11th,
     2001.
     Q.   Firefighter Vaskis, would you please
tell me what happened to you on September 11th.
     A.   We were in the kitchen, I guess it was
quarter to 9 on the 11th.  An announcement came
over the voice alarm saying there's been an
explosion at the World Trade Center and get ready
for your assignments.
          At that point everybody who was in the
kitchen went downstairs to the apparatus floor.
Two of the guys who had been detailed the night
before, Firefighter Oelschlager and Firefighter
Larsen, were just coming back into quarters.
They had pulled I think it was Firefighter
F. VASKIS 3
Larsen's van in front of the apparatus doors to
unload their stuff before they parked across the
street.
          We got downstairs.  We got on the rig.
Everybody had their bunker gear on and waited for
our assignment.  We were down there maybe five
minutes before it came over that they wanted us
to go to One World Trade Center, there was an
explosion.
          The engine left before we did.  We
pulled out of quarters, and we headed down South
Street.  I had just taken over the position of
chauffeur from Fireman Sica who was working the
night tour and he was off; he was off the day
tour.
          We went down South Street.  Lieutenant
Leavey did not want to take the underpass because
we had gotten stuck in there a few times in the
past.  So we were making our way around to West
Street, and there was a backup.
          I guess at this point the Police
Department was guiding everybody from the tunnel
into the underpass to get them off of the FDR
instead of going up West Street.  So there was a
F. VASKIS 4
bit of a delay with that.
          Lieutenant Leavey was pretty upset
about this.  We got up as fast as we could with
traffic.  We finally were where West Street and
the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel intersect.  At that
point the Police Department had those orange
stanchions, directing traffic onto the FDR; not
the small ones, the big ones that look like
upside-down garbage cans.
          Lieutenant Leavey told me not to stop,
just to go through, just to take it and continue
on.  I did what he ordered.  I hit one of the
orange stanchions.  At that point we heard an air
leak.
          He jumped out of the rig, and he tried
to pull the stanchion from underneath the rig.
It was wedged.  He wasn't going to be able to do
it.  He picked up what looked like a black box,
maybe four inches by six inches.  I guess it was
some type of a regulator for the front air
brakes.  He jumped back in, and he said, "Listen,
just continue on, take it as far as it can go
before the breaks lock."
          I did what he ordered.  We ended up on
F. VASKIS 5
West Street between Carlisle and Albany Street in
front of a hotel before the brakes locked.  I had
it pulled over as far as I could.  At that point
people were streaming down West Street.  There
were several cops directing traffic.
          Lieutenant Leavey told me that he was
going to take the troops and walk down.  He
ordered me to stay with the rig, put the jacks
down, pull out the thing, see if there was any
way for me to stop the air leak.  He said, "We're
not going to be able to use this rig if we have
no air.  We're going to be stuck here."
          I did what he ordered.  The other guys
were getting out.  Firefighter Kopytko realized
he didn't have his gloves with him.  He asked if
he could borrow mine.  I told him, "Well, what am
I going to do?"  He said, "Well, by the time you
finish what you're doing, there's going to be
other engine companies.  Just stop in and try to
grab one from one of the other companies."  So I
gave him my gloves reluctantly.
          I put the tormenters down and pulled
out the stanchion.  Now I had this brass coupling
that was broken.  I knew we had a toolbox on the
F. VASKIS 6
rig.  I went over and grabbed the toolbox out.  I
thought that if I bypassed the broken fitting
that I would be able to get some pressure.  I
took the one that was broken off, and the next
elbow was too short; it wasn't wide enough to fit
on.
          While I was underneath checking out the
situation, I heard a large crash, and one of the
cops who was directing traffic said another plane
hit.  I heard more screaming, an initial rush of
people by me, and the cops were saying that there
was a third plane incoming.
          I did what I could.  I found a piece of
heavy plastic that I thought might hold some air.
I wedged it in in the broken valve.  I put it
back on, I tightened it up.  I left the rig where
it was.  I figured after the job the guys would
know where the rig was if I didn't move it.  So I
left it.
          I got my bunker gear on, I got my Scott
pack and my tool assignment, and I headed down.
I stopped -- there were two engine companies
parked in front of me.  I don't remember the name
of the engine companies.  I checked both of them
F. VASKIS 7
for gloves.  There were no gloves.  I checked the
chauffeur's seat.  No gloves.  I got to a third
engine also.  I don't remember which one it was.
I found nothing in the back.  I found a pair of
gloves the chauffeur had put underneath the seat.
They were a little small, but it was the only
thing I had at the time.
          I continued on.  I walked down West
Street, and I noticed that there were body parts
on the ground in front of me.  As I'm walking, I
noticed a foot.  I noticed one corner of West
Street on the street before Liberty on the corner
it looked like intestines.  I couldn't make out
what it was, actually.
          I continued on.  I realized that things
were falling.  I decided probably the best thing
to do would be to walk under the overpass, south
overpass, because I had heard that the command
center was set up on the other side of West
Street.
          So I walked over underneath the
overpass, and there was it seemed like ribbons of
aluminum or whatever, the facade of the building,
was trickling down.  There were people screaming,
F. VASKIS 8
"Heads up.  Watch for falling debris."  When I
looked up, I noticed somebody had jumped out of
the building.  There were rigs in front of me.  I
didn't actually see where that person landed.
          So I'm still heading into One World
Trade Center, which was our original assignment.
I figured probably nothing had changed.  I did
not check in at the command center.  I walked
past it to the north overpass, and I cross back
over West Street to the front of the building.
          At that point the windows of the
building had been blown out or taken out by the
explosion.  I don't know.  The long, thin windows
were gone, so I didn't use the actual entrance.
I walked through the glass right where the fire
command station was, and there was nobody there.
          I headed towards the stairwell, and I
got maybe about ten feet from the corner of the
building, and I felt a wind.  At first I didn't
know what it was.  I started to brace myself for
it.  It basically knocked me off my feet, onto my
stomach, and I slid out of the building from
where I had come.  I was trying to stop myself,
and I could tell that I went pretty much out if
F. VASKIS 9
not the same window that I had come in then one
of the ones next to it.
          I ended up about ten feet from the
sidewalk in front of One World Trade Center.  I
crawled back in to what I thought was the
threshold of the frame of the building.  It was
pitch-black.  I fumbled around.  I put my face
piece on and turned my mask on.  I was choking,
choking dust.
          So there I am.  I'm on my knees for
what seemed like, I don't know, 15 minutes.  It
was probably only about five minutes.  It was
pitch-black.  It started to get gray, and it was
just cloudy.  I could make out where my helmet
had blown off, and I could see where my tools lay
further out in the street, maybe 20 feet, just
outside the curb.
          As the dust cleared, I made my way out.
I found my helmet, picked up my tools, and I
headed back into the building.  I'm back towards
the corner of the building, just about to get to
the staircase, and the door opens and there are
10 or 12 civilians and they're all disoriented:
"Here, this is the lobby.  This is the lobby.
F. VASKIS 10
Now where do we go?"  They're heading towards the
main exit.
          When I was outside picking up my
helmet, I realized that that was where the -- I
looked up at the Vista Hotel, and I noticed that
there was a huge V chunk taken out of it.  At
that point I believe that the top of One World
Trade Center had collapsed and fallen into the
street.  That's what I felt had happened.
          In any event, that debris was blocking
the main exit for the building.  I told them that
they shouldn't go that way; they should head out
one of the windows where I had gone out.  I said,
"Stick close to the building and make your way up
West Street and keep going."
          When I knew that they had some idea
where they were going, I headed back into the
stairwell, when the urgent message came over to
have all firefighters leave the building.  They
were going to form back up at Murray Street and
West Street.
          So I did that.  I headed out.  I
actually followed them up West Street.  When I
got to Murray Street, we heard another loud
F. VASKIS 11
rumbling, and I looked back and saw a cloud of
dust.  That was I guess when one fell.  From that
time we just ran up West Street.  We stopped in
front of Stuyvesant High School, and we just got
there just as the dust cloud made it to us.
          We were in Stuyvesant maybe ten
minutes.  I came out.  I still couldn't see that
the building was gone.  It looked like maybe the
top half of it was gone.  There was a lot of
smoke; there was a lot of dust.
          They started another whatchamucallit
point at Chambers Street where they were letting
companies go in.  At that point I guess I ran
into the engine chauffeur from 4 Engine, Bobby
Humphrey, and he said, "Listen, just stay
together."  I told him what happened to me, and
he told me what happened to him.
          We ran into another group of two
firefighters, one of the guys who had been
relieved and another fireman who had been
detailed but hadn't left yet before the run came
in.
          So the four of us hooked up.  I
remember him trying to raise Engine 4, as I was
F. VASKIS 12
trying to raise Ladder 15.  They were not
allowing anybody to go back in without
supervision.  We didn't have an officer with us.
          That's really it.  We stayed there.  I
think we spoke to three different chiefs.  We
told them that we had tried to contact our
companies and they were missing.  We told them
the names of the guys who were working in our
companies that day, three separate times:
probably one right after we met up, the second
one was maybe an hour later, and the third one
was -- they had set up a table outside of
Stuyvesant High School.  That was the third time
we were there.
          We were there when Seven World Trade
Center collapsed.  I guess when we got back to
the firehouse it must have been 10, 10:30, 11.
     Q.   Good.  I just have one or two
questions.
          You say you were going to the stairs
when you got into the Trade Center.
A. Yes.
     Q.   Do you remember which stairs you were
heading towards?
F. VASKIS 13
     A.   I was heading towards the core.  I
never actually --
     Q.   Looked at any numbers?
     A.   Yeah, I never got that.
     Q.   So you wouldn't know what your company
went up?
          When you were in the lobby at any
point, before, during, after, you didn't see any
other Fire Department personnel?
     A.   I did not, no.
     Q.   So you hooked up with Humphrey sometime
after the second tower collapsed?
A. Yes.
     Q.   Okay.  Unless you have something else
you can think of, that concludes the interview.
I thank you for your time.
A. Sure.
File No. 9110365
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER HOWIE SCOTT
   Interview Date:  December 17, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
H. SCOTT 2
          CHIEF KEMLY:  Today is December 17th,
     2001.  The time is 1610.  This is Battalion
     Chief Ronald Kemly of the New York City Fire
     Department.  I'm conducting an interview
     with Firefighter Howie Scott of Squad 18 of
     the Fire Department of the City of New York.
     The interview is taking place at the
     quarters of Ladder 20 in regards to the
     events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Firefighter Scott, would you tell me
what happened to you on September 11th?
     A.   September 11 started out -- I worked
the night tour from the previous night before and
was relieved by Manny Mojica as a chauffeur.  I
went upstairs, took a shower and was in the
shower when the whole incident started to unfold.
          I went into the locker room to hear
over the department radio all the stuff that was
going on.  I threw on a pair of shorts and went
downstairs to see what was actually happening.
          I looked down south of Lafayette
Street, saw the smoking tower, along with Tim
Haskell and a few other members of Ladder 20.
Timmy and I spoke of getting down there via the
H. SCOTT 3
hazmat bread truck, that's what we call it, the
second piece.  We saw that it was still in the
second bay.  I told Tim I'll be right back, I'm
going to go get my shirt, some socks, grab my
gear and we'll be ready to roll.
          This was after the second plane hit the
building that we decided, "All right, we're going
down there, this is what we're going to do."
          Anyhow, I ran upstairs, got my stuff,
went to the rack, got my gear, came out to the
front and Timmy and a few of the members of
Ladder 20 had jumped on the bread truck and left.
They were already gone.
          I started looking around, because they
had mentioned something about fire marshals were
going to give them a ride down.  I saw a fire
marshal, and he said yeah, no problem, jump in
the car.
          As I'm getting my stuff, picking up my
stuff and throwing it in the trunk, I see John
Ceriello biking up the road.  He's coming over
from Brooklyn.  I yelled down to him, "Hurry up.
We've got a ride."  So he peddled up, ran in, got
his stuff, threw it in the trunk, and we went
H. SCOTT 4
down to the scene.
          We pulled up on West Street I would say
north of the north walkway, just to get an idea
of the location.  We got out of the car and put
our gear on.  We proceeded south down West Street
under the north walkway and saw to our right in
front of the financial building there was a
command post over there that included Chief
Ganci, Chief Downey, Mayor Giuliani, Bill Feehan
and Tom Von Essen, the Commissioner.  They were
in conference about something.  We caught Chief
Downey's eye, and he kind of gave us the high
sign to go find a SOC company.
          So as we scooted away from there, we
noticed that Squad 288 and Rescue 4 were coming
across West Street.  They went into the lobby of
the financial building.  I think it was One World
Financial building.  We informed the officer of
288 that we were going to join up with them with
Lieutenant Kerwin.  I believe he even put our
names on his BF4.
          Anyhow, they were taking a quick blow,
sizing up what they were going to want to do
next, get a little drink of water.  Everybody
H. SCOTT 5
knew we were in for a long haul here.
          In the meantime John and I kind of kept
reminding each other:  Hey, we don't have
anything as far as tools, radios, air, whatever.
So before we get committed to anything let's try
and at the very least get some air.
          They started to make their move back
across West Street.  We informed them that we
would catch back up with them.  I believe they
were on their way into the lobby of tower two.
          Anyhow, with the abundance of rigs
right out in front on West Street there, we
figured no problem, we'll just grab an extra mask
from somebody, only to find out later that that
was a big problem.  There were no masks to be
found.
          We were hitting rig to rig, proceeding
pretty much north on West Street until we saw the
Hazmat 1 rig.  We went over to there.  The
resource guy that's usually in the rig, he was
still there.  He came out and hooked us up with a
couple of masks.  We even changed out the bottles
to one-hour cylinders.
          In the meantime we picked up this other
H. SCOTT 6
guy, Phil.  I don't remember his last name, but I
remember he was an EMS worker there.  I guess now
he's over with the Fire Department.  Anyhow, he
joined in with us.
          We started our walk down West Street
towards the buildings, and I ran into Mike Macko
from Ladder 8 and yelled up to John Ceriello -- I
told John, "Hey, wait up.  Let's wait for this
guy.  He's a senior guy in Ladder 8.  He knows
these buildings like the back of his hand.  It
probably would be advantageous, being as we don't
have any radios or anything."
          So I pointed Mike over to the hazmat
rig.  He also got a mask and I think also put on
a one-hour cylinder, buckled up, and we were on
our way.
          As we proceeded back down West Street
now, John was a little up ahead of us.  I don't
exactly remember how much further.  We just made
our turn to go in towards the lobby of tower two.
For whatever reason, I just happened to look up
and saw the whole thing coming down, pancaking
down, and the explosion, blowing out about
halfway up.
H. SCOTT 7
          I yelled up to John -- I used a couple
of expletives and said, "It's coming down, run,
let's go."  So we about-faced.  In my mind I was
saying north walkway, let's get under that, and
dove under that.  I probably fell short of that
and kind of crawled.  Anyhow, I did get under
that.  I believe I smashed into some sort of mask
service rig.
          I remember looking back and noticing
that big mushroom cloud just roaring at us like a
freight train.  I quick scrambled and threw the
cylinder on and threw the mask on my face and
started crawling, which I'm figuring up West
Street.
          Now I decide, all right, let me get on
my feet and make a move here.  So I got on my
feet and I start moving.  I run right smack into
a plate glass window, fall back, get back up.  I
don't know what building exactly, but there are
some employees coming out of this particular
building.  It's on the other side of West Street.
I just kept pushing them on:  Go, go, keep going,
don't look back, don't breathe even, just go.
          Again I pretty much thought I was
H. SCOTT 8
proceeding up West Street, and in actuality I was
proceeding west down I guess Vesey Street and
ended up by the Hudson River, which I guess
worked out in the sense of that all the boats
were coming over from Hoboken now, all these
ferries, and I got involved in just chucking
people onto these boats.  I even tried to make
one boat like an ambulatory boat.  Anybody that
was banged up, I got them on just one boat and
got them out of there, and the other boats we
were just moving people on.
          In the meantime, not really knowing
what was going on back at the towers, because,
again, I had no radio.  I'm now separated from
John and the guy Phil.  Out of nowhere I see Mike
Macko.  Mike's crying.  He's all upset.  I get
him calmed down.
          We proceed now to go north on one of
those streets in like Battery Park City, I guess,
over there, and then swing around back towards
West Street and end up back on West Street, north
of the north walkway.
          We ran into Pat Kelly from my company,
Squad 18, who was in the tower when it came --
H. SCOTT 9
I'm trying to remember where he was.  That's
hazy, so I'm not going to go with that.  I don't
know whether it was after the first building or
the second building came down I ended up running
into Pat Kelly.
          Anyhow, we start our descent back
towards the building, because obviously there's
lots of maydays and stuff going around.  We get
to just about the north walkway, about to go
underneath, and the second one came down.
          Again, a quick retreat back up.  This
one was, as far as I was concerned, the big one.
The first one you had a chance to make a move, I
felt, especially us.  You may not have made the
right move, but you had a chance, because it
seemed like it pancaked down and that delayed the
whole process, where the second one just seemed
like it just opened up all over the place.
          After that I was sitting on one of the
medians at West Street just waiting for that
smoke cloud to lift so we could see what the heck
we're going to do next.  Obviously it seemed like
it was three hours we were waiting.  It was
probably not all that much time.  Obviously some
H. SCOTT 10
officers were trying to get control of the
situation.
          But in looking at it later on, our
position where we were, we were pretty much out
of the picture at that point because all the
devastation came that way, where I was, whereas
any kind of rescue effort or any kind of stuff
like that was I guess able to be done from, I'd
say, the Liberty Street and Greenwich Street
side, totally opposite from us.
          But we did end up eventually crawling
under that north walkway, which had collapsed and
which was held up on either end.  We were able to
get under that, get up on the pile.  Then I got
involved with -- we found Pete Ganci.  I was
involved in that recovery.
          I then ended up getting moved away -- I
know I'm skipping some parts because the whole
Pat Kelly thing is in there where we went to look
for his mask and decided the heck with it,
because that put us right by where building seven
was, and Captain Verraile from 24 Engine said,
"Hey, let's just back everything off here because
this building is coming down."  So we took all
H. SCOTT 11
the hose, equipment, everything that we could get
our hands on and pulled it out of the collapse
zone, so to speak.
          Then later on we ended up in the
financial building, the lobby, again.  They
wanted to get some sort of command post going in
there.  There's a lot of stuff that's all real
hazy at this point.
          I took a blow for a while.  Then of
course at that point every fireman on the job was
there.  I remember talking to my captain and
trying to tell him where his father might have
been on our way down.
          That's pretty much it.
     Q.   Okay.  Just a couple questions.  As you
said at the end, maybe where Chief Downey was.
The first time you saw him was at the command
post.  You didn't see him go anywhere else?
     A.   Right.  That's what I wanted to get,
because while we were waiting on West Street,
Captain Downey now reported in, just like
everybody else was getting there.  Everybody is
like throwing stuff at him, pointing and
throwing.  You could see in a whirlwind not
H. SCOTT 12
knowing what was going on.
          I kind of got his attention, pulled him
aside and kind of specifically said, "Hey, Cap,
look, this is what happened as far as your father
goes with --"  Okay, the rampway going into the
garage of the financial building, that's where
they were originally, meaning the five guys I
told you.
          If they made a move after the first
building came down, I don't know.  But that's
where originally he was.  When we saw them was
right before the first building came down.  So
how much time elapsed there is probably not that
great amount of time.  So I don't know where he
would have moved to.
          John and myself walked around the whole
rest of the day thinking each other was dead.  It
wasn't until 8 or 9:00 at night when we were in
the lobby of that financial building getting some
tables and chairs together so people can sit down
and map some stuff out, and John comes walking
around.  We're both like, "What are you doing?"
That was a relief to see him, and I'm sure he
felt the same.
H. SCOTT 13
          A lot of gray areas there.  Like I
said, the whole Pat Kelly thing, he was with us.
A couple of the SOC battalion aides were outside
that were with Chief Kasper and Chief Paolillo.
Those two aides were out on the street with us.
They ended up -- from what I'm gathering is they
all got caught up in the same swoosh, so to
speak, and got chucked this way and made it out,
whereas anybody that got chucked that way didn't
make it.
     Q.   Did they say where they were operating?
     A.   The 8th.
     Q.   No.
     A.   I'm sure they know.  I just don't
remember what they said.  I'm sure they remember.
     Q.   If you don't have anything else, that
concludes the interview?
     A.   Okay.
     Q.   Thanks for your time.
     A.   No problem.
File No. 9110366
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER JOHN CERIELLO
   Interview Date:  December 17, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
J. CERIELLO 2
          CHIEF KEMLY:  Today is December 17th,
     2001.  The time is 1540 hours.  This is
     Battalion Chief Ronald Kemly of the Fire
     Department of the City of New York.  I'm
     conducting an interview with John Ceriello
     of Squad 18 of the Fire Department of the
     City of New York.  The interview is taking
     place in the quarters of Ladder 20 regarding
     the events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   John, could you please tell me what
happened to you on September 11th.
     A.   I first saw on TV, I believe CNN, that
the north tower was on fire.  I was not aware of
a plane hitting it at that point.  Just looking
like a high-rise fire, I decided that even though
I was off duty that it would be a good idea for
me to at least go into the firehouse and see if
there was going to be any need of my assistance
there.
          So thinking that it was just prior to
9:00 there would be a ton of traffic, I jumped on
my bicycle.  I live in Carroll Gardens.  I rode
over the Brooklyn Bridge.  When I was roughly in
the middle of the span, there was a massive
J. CERIELLO 3
explosion on the south tower.
          Again I didn't see a plane or anything,
so I didn't know it was a plane that hit the
tower.  I think in my mind I just thought there
was a massive explosion on one of the upper
floors and now you had a real bad fire.
Obviously I figured I would be needed.
          So I continued to Lafayette Street
where Ladder 20 and Squad 18 are housed right now
while our building is under construction.  When I
arrived, at the apparatus door was Howie Scott,
another fireman from Squad 18, who was waiting
for me.  There were two fire marshals.  I do not
remember their names.  They had a car fired up
and waiting to take us down there.
          So I quickly grabbed my gear.  I
remember grabbing a bottle of water, jumped in
the back of their car and off we went.  I believe
we shot down to Canal, over to West Street, and
down West Street.
          En route you obviously could hear and I
was informed that a small plane had hit the north
tower and that a second plane had hit the south
tower.  At that point I think, knowing that it
J. CERIELLO 4
was a clear blue sky, we knew something was up.
I can't say that I thought it was terrorists
right off the bat, but you knew something was
going on that shouldn't be going on.
          I didn't have my bunker gear on at that
point, I remember, because I was just thinking of
a high-rise fire, we're going to climb a lot of
stairs, keep cool and try to save your energy in
a sense.
          So we quickly went down West Street and
asked where the command post was.  The command
post was set up in the parking entrance to the
American Express building across the street from
the north tower, just south of the north walkway.
          As we approached the command post, I
noticed Chief Ray Downey at the command post.
Being the SOC chief, I then asked him, "Chief,
what do you want to do?"  He told me and Howie to
hook up with the next SOC units that came in and
go to work.
          So we donned all our equipment, and
within seconds I believe 288 with Lieutenant
Kerwin and Rescue 4 with Lieutenant Dowdell
arrived at that command post.
J. CERIELLO 5
          We then all proceeded to go into the
lobby of the American Express building, again
right across the street from the north tower and
just adjacent to the command post, and just did a
little staging area.
          The reason I believe we went into the
lobby is there was debris falling around
everywhere and swirling.  I think just as a
second form of protection if -- I guess the
possibility of maybe a third plane or something
coming in, the officer thought that was a good
idea.
          So we went into that lobby, and
everybody was calm and cool.  A couple guys I
remember went to the bathroom and got some water.
We just discussed the fact that we were going to
go in through the south tower, try to go to the
upper floors and help extinguish the fire or
evacuate the people.
          At that point Lieutenant Kerwin wrote
my name on his BF4 as well as Howie Scott's name.
I informed him that we did not have masks, and he
asked me to get masks and come back to the lobby.
If they were not in the lobby of the American
J. CERIELLO 6
Express building, then they would be in the lobby
of the south tower to meet us there.  10-4.
          Howie and I left the American Express
building and then proceeded to check rigs that
were all in front of the north tower on West
Street, moving north until we got to Vesey and
West.
          We found Hazmat 1 there, and Tony -- I
cannot pronounce -- it starts with a C.  I think
it's Castagna or something to that effect.  He
was a member of Hazmat 1.  He was there.  I asked
him if they had masks.  He said yes.
          At that point we donned half our
cylinders.  It was myself, Howie Scott, a
firefighter from Ladder 8 and then a proby who
originally was in 35 Truck who now I think is in
hazmat, Phil Latimer.  We donned half our
cylinders.
          At that point Tony from Hazmat 1
mentioned that he has our bottles and asked if we
would like to switch over to our bottles, which
we thought would be a good idea.  So we took a
minute and a half to two minutes to switch our
cylinders.
J. CERIELLO 7
          We got all that, grabbed some tools and
headed up West Street in the northbound lanes of
West Street.  We walked underneath the north
walkway.  When we got about 50 feet past that,
Howie Scott looked up and said, "Oh, shit."  I
then looked up and saw the whole top of the
building beginning to come down.
          Then at that point we all ran north.  I
got underneath the north walkway, got behind a
blue van, and everything went to hell, went to
darkness.
          Howie -- I didn't know where he was.  I
tried to locate him quickly and could not find
him.  Then I donned my face piece, because you
couldn't breathe.  I began to walk north and fell
over something.  I don't know what it was.  I
began to crawl, and what ended up happening was I
crawled in a circle back towards the south tower,
thinking I was heading north.
          When the dust settled, I saw Ray Downey
standing on West Street.  I believe at that point
we were in between the north and the south tower.
The south tower was down.  You really couldn't
tell it was completely down, but you could tell
J. CERIELLO 8
most of it wasn't there.  I again approached him
and asked him what he wanted to do.  He said at
this point you've got to do what you can do.  He
was trying to get the command post to move north.
          Chief Feehan was with him and Chief
Ganci.  Chief Ganci -- actually Chief Feehan
asked me to go with I believe it was Chief
Fuentes, Al Fuentes.  Is he is captain or a
chief?  I'm not sure.
     Q.   I think he's a chief.
     A.   Anyway, he asked us to do a primary
search of the parking garage because everyone at
the command post dove into the parking garage
when the south tower came down.
          So we went in there.  We did a quick
primary.  We went in through the building.  You
couldn't get down there through where the
driveways were; you had to go in through the
building.  We got down there, did a quick
primary, we came back out onto West Street.
          At that point Chief Ganci told us that
we have a mayday of a fireman down at Liberty and
West.  Then Chief Feehan told me to take that
proby, Phil Latimer, who I was with earlier but I
J. CERIELLO 9
had gotten separated from and was with again.  He
said to do that assignment.
          At that point we took off climbing over
debris and whatnot on West Street.  We passed a
black woman with a broken leg with a firefighter
on the sidewalk.  We told them to stay put, that
someone would come get them.  We proceeded to
Liberty and West, trying to ascertain from some
of the firemen that were there if they had seen
anybody or heard anyone.  They said no.
          We started up onto the pile when we
just heard a horrific rumbling coming, and we
knew the north tower was coming down.  I then
proceeded to run under the south walkway and dove
into an ambulance.  Again the same thing
happened.  Everything went to nighttime.  The
dust cleared.  I donned my face piece, climbed
out and headed to the water.
          So basically that's who and what I
remember.  Some of the members that I saw from
288 and Rescue 4 were Joey Hunter, Ronnie Gies,
Bronco Pearsall and John Ielpi.  We all just
briefly talked.
          When we were in the American Express
                  J. CERIELLO                  10
building, we did see some people jumping and
whatnot.  We knew we had a bad scene on our
hands.
          For the most part that's who I remember
seeing, in that particular order.  After that,
the rest of the day was spent in lousy attempts
at trying to locate victims.  That's basically
all I can really say.  It was just a lot of mass
confusion.  We just tried to do the best we
could.
          I basically operated on West and
Liberty until about 1:00 in the morning.  I never
really went much up Liberty, and I never really
went much north on West Street.  I stayed in that
quadrant right by what was the Marriott Hotel,
making entrances and then running out because the
buildings were collapsing and going back in, all
that stuff.
          That's basically the members I saw
prior to the buildings coming down.
     Q.   Okay.  First if that's all you have, I
have a couple quick questions.
          When you first reported in to the
command post, you saw Chief Downey.  Was anybody
                  J. CERIELLO                  11
else there, companies?
     A.   Yes.  There were a lot of firemen
staged, standing there.  I cannot say that I
actually recognized anyone.
     Q.   So you wouldn't know if Chief Downey or
whoever was there was sending them any particular
places?
     A.   No, no.  I never even looked at our
coffee table and clipboard at the command post.
     Q.   When you saw the apparatus, any
apparatus numbers you can remember and where they
were parked?
     A.   Yeah, I remember Rescue 1, obviously,
right under the north walkway, the high-rise unit
3 from Engine 3, the high-rise unit.  I remember
rifling through that truck looking for tools and
cylinders; a number of different engine
companies, thinking the chauffeur's mask would be
available.
          But I cannot say exactly which engine
companies.  I believe Ladder 3 was right there.
I think 18 was right there.  Ladder 18 was right
there.  That's about it.  I know the information
on the buildings said West Street, so I think a
                  J. CERIELLO                  12
lot of units came down that way.
     Q.   When you say 288 and Rescue 4, they
were basically at the staging area that you saw
them?  They weren't on any particular assignment
in the building?
     A.   No, when I asked Chief Downey what to
do, he said hook up with the next SOC units.
Within a short period of time, 30 seconds, maybe
to a minute, they walked up across West Street.
I did forget one thing.  So they walked across
West Street.  Then we all, as a group, went into
that American Express building to stage.
          What I do remember and I forgot to tell
you is as we were checking the high-rise unit
from Engine 3, I remember every maybe 30 seconds
I would turn around and look towards the American
Express building, trying to see if Rescue 4 and
288 were leaving that building.
          At some time as I was making my way
north on West Street, I did see them leave that
lobby and do a single file and heading straight
towards I would say it was the Marriott Hotel,
heading towards the south tower.
          Where they entered the building to get
                  J. CERIELLO                  13
into the lobby, say, that I can't answer.  I
didn't see at that point where they went in.  But
I do remember them walking in a single file
across West Street on a diagonal, heading right
towards the south tower.
     Q.   And that's who you were supposed to
hook up with?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   They were probably going to tower two?
     A.   Yes, I would say definitely.  They're
finding those guys there now.  Absolutely.
     Q.   That's good.  If you don't have
anything else, that concludes the interview.
     A.   I don't think so.  Any information that
I can think of now, that's it.
     Q.   Okay.  Thanks for your time.
     A.   Thanks, Chief.
File No. 9110367
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
               JASON KATZ
   Interview Date:  December 20, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          MR. ECCLESTON:  Today's date is December 20,
     2001.  My name is Christopher Eccleston of the New
     York City Fire Department, World Trade Center Task
     Force.  I am conducting an interview with the
     following individual.
     Q.   Please state your name, rank, shield number
and assigned command.
     A.   My name is Jason Katz.  My shield is 2101,
and I am currently an EMT chief's aide at Division 4.
     Q.   Jason, were you assigned to the World Trade
Center disaster on 9/11?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   In your own words, can you tell me about the
details of that day?
     A.   The day started out -- I reported to work at
the division office, as I normally do, and I was here
for maybe ten minutes when I was told that the two
planes crashed into the twin towers, and that Chief
Carrasquillo was on his way here, and he was picking up
personnel to go.
          From that time, Chief Carrasquillo arrived.
We jumped into the car with him.  We grabbed our
helmets and turnout coats, and we responded in, and I
guess about -- being on the LIE probably by the Pulaksi
JASON KATZ
3
Skyway, we got the report that the second plane crashed
into the second tower, the north tower.
     Q.   When you say "we," can you just tell me who
the other people with you were?
     A.   I was in the car with Chief Carrasquillo,
Captain Rivera and Chief Carrasquillo's aide, Sal
Sangeniti.
          At that time, we came out of the tunnel into
Manhattan and shot down the FDR around to the Westside
Highway and parked our car roughly around Westside
Highway and Carlyle Street.
     Q.   Can you just indicate on the map provided
approximately where you parked your vehicle?
     A.   I would say between Carlyle and Rector.
That's about the best I remember.  Between Carlyle and
Rector.
     Q.   Can you just mark it with the No. 1?  Thank
you.
     A.   At that time, we got out of the car, and
Chief Carrasquillo told me to meet up with Chief Brown,
who had just arrived a little bit before us, and he was
a few cars ahead of us, and to go team up with him and
become his aide for the day.
          When I went to go meet Chief Brown, there
JASON KATZ
4
were a few bodies laying in the street -- and I just
met up with Chief Brown.  We reported in to
operations.  Operations told us to set up staging and
triage, more staging at West and Liberty, and on the
way back to West and Liberty, there was debris flying
down, and it was pretty scary.  There was a bunch of
pieces of metal or debris just coming down, and I think
there were bodies.  I wasn't even sure.  We just kept
moving, kept running over to set up the staging area on
West and Liberty.
          Chief Brown directed me at that time to just
track what units were where, and, you know, who was
who, and a lot of voluntary and private ambulances on
the scene.  Just try to get the number and names of the
crews, and at that time I was doing that, and then we
started to hear a roar, and I looked back.
          Everybody was running, so I just kind of
started running with them, and the next thing I know, I
just remember jumping on a staircase and putting my
hands over my helmet, and, you know praying to God, and
then it all went black.  It was silent.  You couldn't
hear a thing.
          I remember something hit my hand.  I don't
know what it was.  I got up after all this.  It seemed
JASON KATZ
5
like it was forever, but it was probably just a few
minutes.  It was -- I remember seeing a fire truck.  I
think it was on fire.  I remember just trying to work
my way over there.
          I heard people screaming and yelling and
just, you know, all disarray.  So I made it over to the
fire truck looking for a Scott pack, and kind of hung
out in this fire truck.  I don't even know what company
it was.  I think it was a tower ladder, and things
lifted a little bit.
     Q.   Do you know what that location was?
     A.   It was just south of the south crossover.  It
was just south of there, and things started to lift,
and then I heard Bobby Brown's voice just calling for
me, and things began lifting a little more, and I made
my way back over to him, and we just kind of started to
looking under debris.
          Everything was lifting.  It was kind of hard
to breathe.  We were covered head to toe, you know,
with dust and everything, and we were just looking in
the debris, listening for people screaming, seeing if
we could find anybody.  At that time, we ran into Chief
Wells.  We found a suburban, and we were looking
through the suburban for a first-aid kit just to wrap
JASON KATZ
6
up my hand.  Because at this time I noticed my hand was
bleeding pretty good.  I had cut two fingers on my left
hand.
          After that, we were there for maybe 15, 20
minutes just looking, you know, trying to regroup, see
who was where, try and get in contact with the command
post, if they were still alive.  We didn't even know.
          At that point, we really weren't sure of what
had happened.  We just -- you know, and then we looked
up, and we noticed the tower was gone.  It seemed like
it was just maybe 15, 20 minutes, and I just heard
everyone saying, run again.
          So I went in through -- went in through one
building that the south tower was attached to on the
west side.  I'm not sure what building it was.  The
lobby was all blown out.  All the glass was blown out,
so you could run right through the lobby, so once they
started saying run, I just took off again, made it
through the lobby, started running down -- I don't know
what street it was.
     Q.   West End Avenue?
     A.   Yes, that's where it was, West End Avenue,
and I jumped into a store, and I guess it's the Gateway
Plaza here.  I think it was a diner, or a coffee shop
JASON KATZ
7
or something like that.  At that point, the second
tower had come down, and when I was in that store,
there was one civilian in there, who was hiding
underneath the table, and she was pretty panicked.  I
calmed her down a little bit, and after things started
to lift again, I escorted her over to a building on
West End and Albany on the -- that would be the
southeast corner.
          There were a whole bunch of firemen in there
and civilians.  I don't even know what they were, cops
or firemen.  Cops were wearing firemen helmets.
Firemen were wearing just hard hats.  You had no clue
who was who, but we stayed in there for a little bit.
          They kind of pulled us over when things
started to lift.  We stayed in there for a few minutes,
and then I came out of there, and once again just
amazingly I ran into Chief Brown.  I heard him
screaming, you know, calling out.  We met up with him,
and we met up with Commissioner Gregory.  I think he's
communications.
Q. Yes.
     A.   He was there in a turnout coat, and a few
firefighters, and a couple of, I think, Metro Care
ambulance people had all gathered in the middle of the
JASON KATZ
8
street.  Then we heard two planes coming overhead.  We
weren't sure, you know, if they were friendly or just
loud jet engines, so we started making a little run to
the west side.  We noticed it was a F-16.
          We were ready to jump in the drink if we had
to, and at that time a fire boat had met us over on the
west side and we -- that ambulance bandaged my finger
up on the west side there.  Then we started helping
civilians onto the fire boat.  That was pretty much
just civilians and people who were nurses were helping
wash out our eyes and helping wash civilians' eyes and
just helping everybody off the island at that point.
          Then from there we started making our way
down to the Battery City, and something about a report
of a gas leak, that they were evacuating the island,
and it was kind of a mad rush, and everyone was jumping
on police boats that were in the basin, the boat basin
down there.
          We all jumped on the police boats -- myself,
Bobby Brown and a couple of other EMTs -- and we jumped
on the boat.  They shot us over to Jersey.  After we
helped everybody off, we went back, and at that time we
made our way down to Liberty -- Battery Park by the
Liberty ferry terminal.
Q. Okay.
JASON KATZ
9
     A.   That's where we met up with Chief Steffens.
That was pretty much where things calmed down.  We were
there for about, I guess, an hour, just cleaning up,
drinking some water.
          At that point, I made my way down.  Chief
Brown stayed there, and I made my way down to the
Staten Island Ferry Terminal and the triage.  They
cleaned me up a little bit and sent me on the Staten
Island ferry to a triage area at the Staten Island
Ferry Terminal in Staten Island.  I jumped on a bus,
and they took me to Staten Island University Hospital.
     Q.   You said you had the injuries to your hand.
What kind of injuries did you have?
     A.   There were degloving injuries, and I
fractured the tips on my pointer and middle finger on
my left hand.
     Q.   Do you know what you injured it on?
     A.   Just flying debris.
     Q.   Just flying debris.
     A.   What I forgot to mention was I remember when
we were first there, Chief Brown told us to put on our
chin straps, which is something most of the time we
don't wear.  That probably saved my life because I
JASON KATZ
10
would have lost my helmet when the debris was coming
down.
     Q.   It's not something we commonly use, right.
Is anything else you'd like to add to this interview?
     A.   No.
          MR. ECCLESTON:  This interview is being
     concluded at 1447.
          I thank you very much for conducting this
     interview.  The tape is 181.
File No. 9110368
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
             ROBERT KIMBALL
   Interview Date:  December 20, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          MS. BASTEDENBECK:  Today is December 20, the
     year 2001.  My name is Christine Bastedenbeck.
     I'm at Division 4, EMS command, conducting an
     interview regarding September 11 with the
     following individual.
          MR. KIMBALL:  My name is Robert Kimball.
     EMT, currently serve as a chief's aide.
     Q.   Bobby, were you working on the morning of
September 11?
     A.   I was off.  However, at 8:45, I heard the
incident happened.  I called the Division 4 office,
asked them what the plan was and what we had planned to
do.  She advised me that she -- I'm sorry, Lieutenant
Guarneri advised me she really didn't have a plan yet.
So I asked if the spare vehicle 913, the van, was
available, and if it was, that we should load it up
with spare equipment, and I would be in within 15
minutes to pick it up and transport it down to LSU and
MERV 4.
          I made it here approximately nine o'clock,
and at that time the van was loaded, and there was a
lieutenant.  I don't remember his name.  I really
didn't know him, and an EMT from downstairs, pretty
much a new guy.
             ROBERT KIMBALL
Q.   When you say downstairs --
3
     A.   Downstairs at Battalion 50.  We went into the
vehicle.  It was loaded up, and we made our way down
into Manhattan.
          At approximately -- we left here at 9:15.  I
made it down into Manhattan approximately ten o'clock.
We were initially going to the west side, because we
were told that's where MERV 4 and LSU 4 were staged,
but we were unable to get over onto that side of the
World Trade Center.
          They redirected us at about 10:10 and told us
to go down to the Staten Island Ferry Terminal, because
they wanted to set up a triage, treatment, transport
area down there.  So we went down to that area, went up
to the 2nd Floor of the ramp for the Staten Island
Ferry Terminal, and we set up a treatment transport
area over there.
          At that moment in time, I had no chief to
work with, so Chief Villani said, "Okay, Bob, you're
with me today."  We did some initial stuff at the
Battery Park ferry terminal, and then we had a gator,
and we were pretty much just traveling all over the
World Trade Center site.
          We went to One Liberty Plaza to check on the
ROBERT KIMBALL
4
units that we had over there, because we had staged
over there approximately 20 ambulances at one point.
There was a treatment center.  We were asked to go over
there initially because of the question of the
building's sturdiness, and that all turned out to be
fine at that particular moment.
          We went back down to the EMS command post, I
guess.  I'm not exactly sure where exactly that was.
Everything just looked very different from what it
looked like at that point.  Met with I believe it was
Chief Carrasquillo that particular moment in time, see
what he wanted to do, where he wanted us at, so we were
just basically going back and forth from the ferry
terminal to the World Trade Center site looking at
units, you know, seeing who needed what, going back to
the ferry terminal to see, you know, how we're doing
there.
          I guess approximately three o'clock-ish
sometime, that was about the next time I remember, I
saw deputy chief Bobby Brown come in with some eye
irritation and his aide Jason Katz with -- his hand had
some lacerations on it, I believe.  That was pretty
much about the last time that I remember any kind of,
like, time sequence, because I basically just stayed
ROBERT KIMBALL
5
the whole day at the -- between the ferry terminal and
One Liberty Plaza.
          I believe we went down to Liberty and West at
one particular moment in time, and I believe we did
make it over to Vesey and West at another particular
time.  I believe the command post was somewhere along
here.  Was it Murray and West that particular night?
But that was earlier.  We had no real protection as far
as masks went.
     Q.   Where were you when the buildings collapsed?
     A.   We were traveling down -- I believe the first
building collapsed, and we were traveling down
Broadway.  I think it collapsed, what, 9:05 or
something?  No, I'm sorry 10:05.  9:55.
          So we were traveling down Broadway, and
that's when we were redirected at about 10:10 down to
the ferry terminal.
     Q.   Where were you when the second building
collapsed?
     A.   When the second building collapsed, I
believe -- let's see.  What time did that collapse?
Because I think I was still -- 10:29.  I was just -- I
guess we were right about here.  I don't know what
street this is.
             ROBERT KIMBALL
Q.   So you were south of Rector?
6
     A.   Yes, I was about, I guess, one, two blocks
south of Rector.  We had a whole bunch of ambulances
standing here, more like Hunter and Metro Care, I guess
it was, and we were trying to get them down more
towards our area so we could stage them up properly.
          So when the second building came down, that's
where we were, right about here, but I guess by then we
set up a treatment and triage center, which pretty much
had almost done, and then I was just pretty much aide
to Chief Villani for the rest of the duration of the
event.  I left at 9:30 the next morning.
     Q.   So you were there overnight?
     A.   Yeah, I was there overnight.  I worked 24
hours straight, and everything else is just like -- I
don't know.  I remember bits and pieces.
          Like I remember walking by with the chief,
and I remember seeing the airplane engine, you know,
pieces of, you know, obviously trade center all over.
When I was walking around, we didn't see any bodies or
body parts.  They had those pretty much either cleaned
up, or they were buried with the debris, so we really
didn't see too much of that, but there was no way to
get even the gaters anywhere near, near Liberty and
ROBERT KIMBALL
7
Trinity.  It was just too much debris and hose, and so
you couldn't even take the gator around.  You had to
walk, I would say, for a two block -- one block area
this way and like a one and a half, two block area this
way.  You couldn't get the vehicles in.
          Then I do remember that later on during that
night we did take his car, Chief Villani's, and we did
take it and park it up -- I believe we made it all the
way to about Rector maybe.  I think it was Rector.
     Q.   And West Street?
     A.   Yeah.  Rector -- yeah, Rector and West, and
we parked the car there and did another walk up towards
the site.
     Q.   At the end of the evening, how did vehicle
913 -- where did that end up?
     A.   Well, that vehicle stayed at the ferry
terminal, Staten Island Ferry Terminal, because we
didn't unload all the equipment.
     Q.   So it stayed there?
     A.   So it stayed there strictly as a supplement
to whatever they might have needed down at the ferry
terminal.  I carried oxygen.  I carried nebulizers,
Albuterol, fluids for irrigation, a couple of extra
long boards, boxes of ACRs in case we needed them,
ROBERT KIMBALL
8
triage tags.  Pretty much everything that I can think
of that we didn't need, that would be stressing out the
battalion, I took into that vehicle.
     Q.   How many days was it before you got the
vehicle back or do you even know?
A. Oh, God.
     Q.   You did eventually get it back at the
division?
     A.   Yeah, oh yeah.  I believe that's how I got
home.  I asked them if they needed it, because they
were going to shut down that area, I believe.  Either
they were going to shut it down or they released me
because they didn't need the equipment that was in
there, because we didn't receive too many people.
          We thought it was going to be a lot more
casualties, and they figured, you know, we have enough
here.  I loaded up what I could load up, you know, that
I didn't need too much.  I pretty much left them, you
know, my oxygen that I could leave them, and that was
really it.
          I believe I took the vehicle back home.
Yeah, I believe I drove the vehicle home, you know,
back to the battalion.
     Q.   Anything else you want to add or that you can
ROBERT KIMBALL
9
think of?
     A.   Well, then I had to have the next day off,
you know, obviously, but then I went down there, and I
served as Bobby Brown's aide for the next six weeks
down at the World Trade Center.
          I believe the first possibly four weeks was
down at Chambers and West at the EMS command post, and
then the last two weeks that I served down there was
down at 10 and 10, Liberty and -- what is that?
Greenwich?  Yes.
          So I served my six weeks down there, and I
haven't been there since.
     Q.   Is that all you have to say?
     A.   As far as the events of that day, as far as
it went with me, yeah.
          MS. BASTEDENBECK:  This ends our interview.
     The time now is 1452.
File No. 9110369
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIRE PATROLMAN PAUL CURRAN
   Interview Date:  December 18, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
P. CURRAN 2
          CHIEF MALKIN:  Today is 12/18, 2001.
     The time is now 1544 hours.  This is
     Battalion Chief Malkin of the Safety
     Battalion.  I'm conducting an interview with
     Fire Patrolman Paul Curran of Fire Patrol
     number 3 in Brooklyn regarding the events of
     September 11th, and what follows is the
     interview.
     A.   On September 11th we got an alarm of a
plane striking the World Trade Center, the north
tower.  So we responded I guess it was roughly a
quarter to 9.
          We proceeded over the Brooklyn Bridge.
We observed the north tower with a heavy volume
of fire on the upper floors up, I guess, the 80th
floors.
          We turned onto Broadway, and we worked
our way down West Side Highway.  We reached
luckily around John Street when the second tower
was hit by the plane, another plane.  At the time
we didn't realize it was a plane.  We just heard
a massive explosion.  Debris rained down on us.
People panicked.  They were running all over the
street.  I had to stop the rig dead.  People,
P. CURRAN 3
hundreds of them, crossed the path running west
on Broadway.  One of the guys stuck his head out
the window, John Citelli, and he saw the other
tower burning.
          We proceeded down Broadway to around
roughly -- I made a left-hand turn.  I'm not sure
which street it was.  It was perhaps Pine Street
or Rector.  We worked our way to Trinity Place to
go up Trinity Place.  I parked the rig on Church
right at Fulton, directly in front of the World
Trade north plaza.
          We then suited up, masks, tools.  My
officer told us we're going to go into the north
tower lobby.  We proceeded down to Vesey.
Walking down Vesey, we noticed large pieces of
what looked like possibly the fuselage from the
plane.
          There was a caravan of motorcycle
police coming up.  We stopped them and we cleared
the path of big O rings and pieces of fuselage of
the plane.  We threw it to the side, and we told
the guys to go on.  They went up towards Church.
          We got down to Vesey, and we turned the
corner onto West.  There was two MPOs having
P. CURRAN 4
problems with the sprinkler cap, getting it off.
We had tools.  We assisted them.  We took the
caps off of them so that they could hook up to
the sprinkler system.  Then we proceeded into the
lobby of the north tower.
          In the north tower my officer, Sergeant
Kenny, it was approached by Deputy Commissioner
Feehan.  He told us they were going to be using
us shortly and to stage in the tower's lobby.
Then he proceeded to leave.  I didn't realize he
left.  I saw him leave the building.  I can't say
exactly what time it was.
          At that time we heard the jumpers.  A
lot of jumpers were hitting right above our heads
on the concourse plaza level.  It was like one
thump, another thump.  I lost count about 19.
          I saw Father Michael Judge.  We went up
the escalator of the customs house, myself and
Sergeant Kenny, to see what the situation was up
there.  It wasn't a pretty sight.  There were
numerous bodies.
          So we went back downstairs to the
lobby, and Father Judge kind of like gave us a
look.  I remember telling Father Judge, "It's
P. CURRAN 5
terrible up there, Father."  I did see Father
Michael go up the escalators of the customs
house.  I guess that's World Trade -- what would
that be, seven, I imagine?  The customs house.
It's Eight World Trade Center.
     Q.   Eight World Trade.  Okay.
     A.   He was up there for a period of time.
We were staying in the lobby for about -- there
were people hitting the deck up there.  There
were body parts -- at one point a body part flew
right through the lobby.  There was an ironworker
in there, which he plays a part later on.
          With that, all a sudden the tower went
completely -- a horrendous noise, a very, very
tremendous explosion, and a very heavy wind came
through the tower.  The wind almost knocked you
down.  We were on the north side of the elevator
banks, and they kind of broke up that wind.
          At first I thought the upper floors
were caving, coming in.  But then kind of like
all thought there was too much dust down there,
too much wind downstairs.  We really didn't know
what happened.
          So we made our exit up the escalator to
P. CURRAN 6
the customs house.  While making our way out, we
were with a truck company, and I don't remember
who they were.  It was dark.  There were a couple
of chiefs there.  I can't remember their names.
          While we were making our way to the
World Trade Center, the customs house, to go up
the escalators to go out, we were going to go out
the other way, down West Broadway and down the
staircase there.  We found Father Judge.  Father
Michael was laying at the bottom of the
escalators.  He wasn't bleeding or anything like
that; he was just unconscious.
     Q.   Tell me exactly where that was now.
     A.   This was in Eight World Trade Center,
in the building --
     Q.   Outside the building?
     A.   -- in the building at the foot of the
escalators, going up to the concourse level.  He
was laying there.
          The guys from the truck company, the
whole patrol was there, some guys from the truck
company, they opened up his coat and they started
working on him.  With that, the building was
shaking.  It got very dark.  We had our lights
P. CURRAN 7
on.  It got very, very thick with dust.
          I remember saying, "We've got to get
out of here.  We've got to get out of here.
Let's pick up" --  They picked up Father Michael,
and they carried him up on the escalator.
          At that time I lost track of them
because my officer told me to take this proby.
He was getting a little nervous, and he told the
proby stay with me and I was to get the proby out
of the building, which I did.
          We got up to the concourse level of the
customs house.  They were walking around that
wraparound thing.  I went to the left because I
knew the staircase -- when you went to the left,
the staircase goes straight down.  It's a long
like three-story staircase that goes down to West
Street in between like the customs and the north
tower.
          I got the proby -- he hurt his ankle.
I had his arm around my shoulder.  I'm taking him
down the stairs.  I'm constantly looking up,
because the jumpers were still coming.  At one
point a jumper missed us maybe by 40 feet.  John
said, "What was that?"  I said, "Don't look
P. CURRAN 8
back."  I remember distinctly it was a blonde
woman.
          When we got to West Street, out of the
building, John was given medical attention.  At
that time I ran to Sergeant Sheehan from Fire
Patrol 2.  He was pretty shook up.  He was
covered with debris.  I guess he was from the
other tower.
          At this time I still didn't realize the
other tower fell.  Our radio communications at
the time was like non-existent.  The radios went
completely haywire.  It was all static.  You
couldn't hear nothing.
Q. What radio?
A. The hand held. The hand held.
Q. Were you on the handy talky?
A. Iwasonthe handy talky channel of the
Fire Department, yeah.
     Q.   There was so much on there?
     A.   Nothing was coming through.
          Sheehan told me that he got out and he
lost one of the guys, Keith Roma.  I said, "Where
was he?"  I knew they were in the back of the
north tower by the escalators by the concourse
P. CURRAN 9
level where the subway goes through the revolving
doors.
          At that point I looked down south, and
I saw the Marriott Hotel laying in West Street.
What went through my mind, I still didn't notice
the south tower missing.  I just didn't see it,
because I was kind of like shielded from it.  So
I thought in my mind there was a gas explosion or
maybe another terrorist, because we knew there
was a terrorist thing going on.
          Now the situation with the north tower
cleared.  The dust, the darkness, it lifted.  I
saw the building was intact.  I looked up.  It
was very heavy fire still.  I ran back into the
building, and I was yelling with my light,
looking around if I could see somebody.
          I went to the back, and the whole back
part of the tower, the concourse level, was gone.
I guess when the south tower came down, it must
have ripped it all down.  It probably is only
like one story there, I believe.
Q. Yeah.
     A.   I went back to the escalators again.  I
made the right-hand turn back to the escalators,
P. CURRAN 10
where we originally found Father Michael.  I ran
up the escalators yelling, making sure everybody
got out.  Everybody did get out.  I went back
down the escalators.  I went back out on West
Street, back through the front of the north tower
where they broke out the glass.
          Now I'm standing in front of the tower,
and the ironworker that was in there in the
lobby, he was wandering around in front.  He was
dazed.  He had a cut on his forearm.  He had dirt
in his eyes, so he couldn't see.  So I took him
across the street, past the collapse unit.  I
remember seeing a collapse unit parked on the
west side of West Street, Vesey by the World
Financial Center.  The buses were staged there
for trauma centers.  So I took the ironworker
there.
          I returned back across West Street
going toward the front of the World Trade Center.
Still in the back of my mind is that they don't
know where Keith is.  I observed a red helmet.  I
yelled out, "Patrol."  I turned, and it was
Sergeant Canham.  He was alongside the New York
Telephone Company building on Vesey.
P. CURRAN 11
          At that time I went further south.  I
went back and stood right in front of Eight World
Trade Center right by the customs house, and the
north tower was set right next to it.  Not that
much time went by, and all of a sudden the ground
just started shaking.  It felt like a train was
running under my feet.
          I was with two other fellows from
Manhattan.  They were truckies from Manhattan.  I
don't remember the number.  Things were happening
so quick.
     Q.   No problem.
     A.   The next thing we know, we look up and
the tower is collapsing, it's coming down.
          I remember yelling out distinctly, "Go
north, north."  We ran.  Myself and these two
other fellows ran north.  I saw out of the corner
of my eye -- I don't know how many members, but I
did see guys go up Vesey Street toward West
Broadway.  I don't know what ever happened to
them, because the other thing fell too.  The
walkway collapsed.  I can't tell exactly how
many.  There were at least four.
          So we ran north on West Street, and we
P. CURRAN 12
got about midsection to the New York Telephone
Company, and the fellow behind me, he must have
been looking over his shoulder.  I wasn't looking
back.  I heard the guy say, "Hit the deck."
          I was trying to get cover somewhere.  I
didn't know where to hit the deck.  So I hit West
Street by a parked car, and I wedged myself next
to the parked car, and the other two fellows were
behind me.  I just kind of made myself like a
little void, waiting for the steel to come.
          Fortunate for us, the guys who went
north on West Street -- the customs house took
the big brunt of all that debris.  Everything
poured into it.
          I was there by the parked car.  I was
put in total darkness.  It went totally black.  I
had my mask on.  I hit the mask -- I didn't want
to take my helmet off to put the strap over my
head, so I just hit it on the street.  It cleared
out the debris in it.  I put the mask on my face
and just sat there.  It seemed like an eternity.
It was total dark.  You couldn't see anything.
          Finally I started -- even with my mask
I started choking.  I got up on all fours, and I
P. CURRAN 13
was trying to make myself gag and throw up.  I'm
yelling, "I can't see."  I thought at first I was
blind.  I had my hand in front of my face and
couldn't see it.
          The darkness lifted.  A little bit of
light came through, and I started to see.  But I
still had trouble breathing and I was on all
fours gagging.  I couldn't throw up.  I got up.
The two fellows that were right behind me, they
got up.  All three of us were intact.  I remember
distinctly north on West Street, I guess maybe
past --
Q. Barclay?
     A.   Past Barclay, maybe between Murray and
Barclay there was a rig there, and there was a
guy -- he must have been using booster water, I
guess.  He had an inch 3/4 line, and he had the
fog on, straight up in the air, soaking.
          So the three of us, we helped each
other.  We ran down and started getting washed
off.  We were saying, "Come on, throw up.  Get
rid of it."  We tried our best to throw up, and
we couldn't throw up.  So he hosed us off.
          At that time after being hosed off, I
P. CURRAN 14
felt a little better.  At that time I went back
to the north tower again, and they were
stretching a line.  A lot of car fires erupted.
All of a sudden cars were blowing up everywhere.
          I went back and I helped a guy stretch
a line.  The guy was all by himself.  I helped
him stretch a line and started putting water on
the car fires.  I remember distinctly walking
past -- I saw 118 Truck.  118 Truck was parked
right on West Street right past Vesey.
     Q.   North of Vesey?
     A.   North of Vesey.  There was a truck
company next to them.  There was a fire
underneath that truck.  I don't remember what the
truck was.  It was a tiller, though.
          There was iron that came right across
West Street and bounced off -- I saw it later.
The iron must have deflected off Eight World
Trade and laid right across right in front of 118
Truck.  There was iron around there.
          So we started putting out the car
fires.  Then I started to walk -- then other
members showed up from an engine company, so I
just started to -- I wanted to regroup with the
P. CURRAN 15
patrol.  I didn't know where everybody was.
          At that time I saw my captain, Greco,
Fire Patrol 3, coming south on West Street.  He
told me that everybody was regrouping on North
End and Murray.  They were regrouping in the park
there.  He wanted us to go there.  That's exactly
where I went.
          I got to Murray Street.  I turned onto
Murray Street, and I saw Mike Angelini, who was
in the lobby with us.  I saw Kenny.  That was
from the patrol I saw.  Then I hosed myself off
again.  There was a shower set up there.  I had a
very hard time seeing.
          Later on the time went by.  We
regrouped and we went back.  We walked back to
the -- we went back across Barclay, down Church,
and we were trying to see if we could move our
rig out of the way.
          At that point my eyes were really
starting to bother me pretty bad.  The long and
short of it, the patrol was taken -- we went back
to 40 Fulton Street.  The chief wanted to get all
our guys together.  At this time we were missing
one member, Keith Roma, still.
P. CURRAN 16
          Later on that afternoon I was taken to
Long Island Hospital, where my eyes had to be
flushed out.  I did all right.  I didn't scratch
my cornea.  I did the right thing.  I didn't
screw up my eyes.  I just kept flushing them out.
          That's kind of like what happened.  I
don't think I left anything out.  It happened so
quickly, it was just total -- it was bad from the
beginning, and it went totally haywire when the
other tower collapsed.  It was just nothing but
carnage and debris.  It was just bodies, body
parts everywhere, a shoe with a leg in it.  It
was just horrible, you know.
     Q.   I believe it.
          The Fire Patrolman that you mentioned,
is he lost?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Was he from here?
          SERGEANT CANHAM:  He's from Fire Patrol
2.
     A.   He was from Fire Patrol 2.  I believe
he was in the north tower concourse level, and I
believe when the tower came down he couldn't get
out of that concourse level.  Probably the wind
P. CURRAN 17
wouldn't let him through the door.  Sergeant
Sheehan just got through the door, and I imagine
maybe he just got stuck.  I believe that's where
he was lost, because there was only one story
there.
     Q.   Everybody tells me all these vehicles
were on fire.  What do you attribute all these
vehicles being on fire to?
     A.   I believe it must have been from the
debris falling and the heat just started hitting
the cars and starting cars on fire.  There were
an awful lot of cars burning, an awful lot.  It
had to be radiated heat or just stuff falling on
cars and setting them on fire.  There were
numerous cars burning, numerous.
     Q.   Good.  That's real good.
     A.   I hope --
          CHIEF MALKIN:  I omitted to say that
     sitting in on this interview was Sergeant
     Canham from Fire Patrol 3.  At the
     conclusion of this interview, which is now
     1601 hours, I thank Paul Curran for his
     interview, and this is the end of the
     interview.
File No. 9110370
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         SERGEANT JAMES CANHAM
   Interview Date:  December 18, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
J. CANHAM 2
          CHIEF MALKIN:  The date is December 18,
     '01.  The time is 1408 hours.  This is
     Battalion Chief Malkin of the Safety
     Battalion.  I'm conducting an interview with
     Sergeant James Canham of Fire Patrol 3.  We
     are at Fire Patrol 3.  There's nobody else
     in the room at this time.  The interview
     concerns the events of September 11th, 2001,
     and what follows is the interview.
     A.   I live in downtown Brooklyn.  I saw the
smoke condition when I dropped my wife off on
Joralemon Street.  I made my way back home, which
is on Sackett and Smith Street.  While I entered
my welling, I heard my brother on the answering
machine saying the towers were just hit by an
airplane.
          I closed by door, made my way back to
Fire Patrol 3, approximately eight blocks.  I
went into quarters, took my turnout gear out of
my locker, which consisted of a Halligan,
flashlight, full bunker gear and PBI hood.
          I made my way down Dean Street, when I
saw a captain of a fire patrol responding from
fire prevention.  He said, "Are you going over
J. CANHAM 3
there?"  I said, "Yes."  I jumped in the car.  I
asked him what we had.  He said, "I don't know.
I just heard a plane had hit the building."
          As we got onto the Brooklyn Bridge and
we turned where we can get a view of the tower,
we saw that both towers were burning.  So I made
the comment, "Geez, it looks like the plane must
have hit one building and careened into the
other," because tower one was hit much higher
than tower two.  So it looked to me like it had
hit, dropped and hit the second tower.
          Once again, I was off duty, I had no
radio, I had nothing.  He dropped me off, because
of traffic, at the South Street Seaport.  I made
my way from the South Street Seaport to the
corner of Church and Fulton, where I had spotted
Fire Patrol 3's rig parked out in front of tower
one.
          Chief Raymond Cowa was standing in
front of the rig, and he had said that Captain
Keegan had just made his way inside.  I grabbed a
mask off of the rig.  I told the chief I was off
duty and that I would be going in.  He said,
"Watch your back."  I began to make my way into
J. CANHAM 4
the building.
          I had seen a couple of what I had
thought were body parts in front of the building.
I didn't pay it much mind.  You still had a heavy
flow of people leaving the building.  I made my
way into the building, down an escalator, where I
believe I was in the concourse level.  I believe
that's what it's called.
          I ran into Sergeant Sheehan and
Patrolman Keith Roma.  They were escorting people
up the escalator.  They were standing by it
looked like a turnstile or a revolving door; I'm
not sure.  There were sprinkler heads going off
on the concourse level.
          John said something bad really
happened.  He said the overheads popped.  There
was a lot of heat here before.  There's nothing
happening now.  He's going to stand fast.
          I told him that the chief was looking
for him and he wanted to coordinate all the fire
patrol units, get them all together, and begin
some type of operation coinciding with the Fire
Department.
          I proceeded into the building.  I had
J. CANHAM 5
told John, which is Sergeant Sheehan, that I was
going to go into the lobby area where the
elevator banks were to take a quick look, because
I saw that there were no firemen on the lower
level.  I wasn't sure -- knowing that the
elevators had dropped, seeing the condition of
the hallways, the bent doors, the fascias of the
hallways were knocked into the hallways.
          I started searching the elevators, when
a woman said there was another woman trapped in
an elevator.  I had gone over to the elevator
with my tool and began to pop the door open.  The
elevator was cantilevered, so it was very hard.
But there was an occupant inside.
          I went back to where I saw Sergeant
Sheehan and Keith Roma.  There were two firemen,
two truckers.  One was an officer.  I believe
they were from 10 Truck.  I can't be sure.  I
told them what I had.  They came with their
tools.  All three of us tried to pop the door
with the Halligans.
          A member from the building maintenance
crew came up with a Port-A-Power.  He said, "I've
got this.  I can pop the door.  I've got it."  So
J. CANHAM 6
with that we had all left.  They had gone back to
where Sergeant Sheehan and Keith Roma was.  I had
made my way up the stairwell.
          On my way up the stairwell, I began
encountering a lot of people on their way down,
very calm, and they were filing out.  It wasn't a
panic.  You could see that they were from upper
floors.  I had asked what floors.  I believe the
first floor I heard was the 26th floor, 27th
floor.  Given the time, it seemed this is how
much time it's taking to get down.  Very narrow
hallway, stairwells going up.
          I got up about four flights, found an
open door onto the floor.  I believe it was the
fourth floor.  I took a quick peek inside, saw no
occupants, started making my way back up.  Once
again I was beginning to get respiratory now.  I
was beginning to get winded.  I had come from
South Street Seaport to this point and getting
winded.
          I made my way up to the eighth floor
and did the same thing, stopped myself for a
moment, found a water cooler, doused myself with
some water, continued to make my way up.
J. CANHAM 7
          I got up to the 13th floor, when there
was a large man blocking the stairwell, people
climbing over the top of him.  I scooped him up
onto my shoulder, and I began half dragging, half
carrying him down the stairs.
          I got to the 11th floor, and there was
a woman sitting on the stairwell crying.  I
yelled, "Ma'am, you've got to move.  You're
blocking the stair.  You've got to --"  She said,
"But there's a police officer laying on the
floor."  I took a peek into the doorway.  I saw a
police officer -- I believe it was Port
Authority -- prone on the floor.
          I had taken the man that I was carrying
and passed him to two other civilians of large
size.  They were on their way down.  I said,
"Look, take this guy."  They were very agreeable,
no problem.  One guy took the woman.  The other
guy grabbed this large man.  They continued down.
          I went over to the police officer.  He
said, "I was just trying to catch my wind.  I'm
very winded."  I gave him my mask, get a couple
of breaths.  With that, two other police officers
came, a sergeant and another officer.  I'm not
J. CANHAM 8
sure if they were Port Authority or city PD.
They said they're going to take care of their
man.
          I asked them if they had a cell phone.
I want to call my wife.  She works in downtown
Manhattan.  She works right in the neighborhood.
He said, "No, but I saw an office down the hall
that had phones that were still operating."  They
were up there making searches, popping doors,
et cetera, they had a ram through with them.
          I dropped my mask there in the hallway.
Air quality was fine.  Very dim as far as
lighting.  But the air quality was good.  So I
dropped my mask, made my way down to the far end
of the corridor, popped open an office door,
called my wife, told her this is real bad, I'm
going to be here a while, go home, get the kids,
stay out of Manhattan, it's going to be a zoo,
not realizing what was going on.
          When I came back out to the hallway, I
saw the sergeant once again, that police officer.
He looked at me and he said, "Are you aware of
what's going on?"  At this time I did not.  I
didn't have a radio, and I just assumed it was
J. CANHAM 9
one plane.  He said, "This was a hit.  They hit
the Pentagon.  They hit the White House.  And we
have another inbound coming at us now."
          I looked at him kind of queer and I
said, "You have another one coming at us?" He
said, "Yeah.  The other tower was hit also."  He
called on his radio, and his dispatcher said
that, yeah, you have another one inbound, watch
your back.
          With that, they had started to go down
the stairs.  I went back and called my wife
again.  I figured I'm on the 11th floor of this
building.  If there's a plane inbound now and
these guys were bailing out -- excuse my
language, I'm done.
          So I called my wife and left a message
on her machine.  I said, "Baby, I love you.  I
don't think I'm going to make it home.  Just take
care of the kids.  I'll be back."
          As I hung up the phone and started
making my way back down the hall is when the
rumble started.  I thought it was our tower
starting to collapse, being the volume of fire I
saw when I had gotten there.
J. CANHAM 10
          I ran down the hallway.  As I ran down
the hallway, I pass two other police officers.
They were also, I believe, making searches on
that floor.  They must have been with the team.
We passed each other in flight.
          The sound became horrific.  I was about
maybe five feet from the mask.  I just dove for
my mask, scooped up my mask with one arm and I
grabbed the stairwell doorway.  I had half my
body on the floor and the other half was in the
stairwell.  I figured if the stairs go, I'll roll
onto the floor.  If the floor goes, I can
maybe -- it was a grasp at nothing.
          This is what I thought the best way
maybe out of this, because at the time with the
sound of the wind blowing through the elevator
banks, because it was air pressure coming in, I
had believed at the time it was air pressure
coming down.  I thought the floors were coming
down.  But it was tower two falling, which once
again I didn't -- it didn't register.  I thought
it was my building.
          It must have rumbled for almost what
seemed like an eternity, but it must have been
J. CANHAM 11
only five minutes or so, between the sound of it
and the dying down.  The entire floor was
enveloped in dust, smoke, minimal heat, and a
very eerie silence.
          Had thrown my mask on, took a couple of
breaths.  You could breathe it.  Then I had gone
right into the stairwell.  There had to be 20
people piled up, I mean actually in a pile.
          So I started peeling them off.  I said,
"Can you stand?"  "Yes, I can stand."  I'd stop
them.  I'd tell them to hold the railing.  I
grabbed the victim behind them, told them to grab
the belt loop of the person in front of them.  If
it was a woman, I grabbed the bra strap.  I
actually grabbed the bra and told them, "Hold the
bra, the other hand hold the railing," and make
your way down.  I started a train.
          The people, once again, even as
panicking and crying as they were, they were
listening and they were making their move.  They
were on their way down.  They were coughing and
disoriented.  I said, "Hold onto the railing and
hold onto the person in front of you and just
keep moving, just keep moving down the stairs."
J. CANHAM 12
          After I cleared those people out -- it
had to account for maybe 30, 35 people by the
time the last one had gone by me.  Once again I
felt very comfortable on the floor now.  The
shaking had stopped.  The ground was very solid.
The wall seemed solid.  The sound was gone.  It
was just a matter of people coming down the
stairs.
          I heard clanking from tools and masks
banging against the wall, so I figured the
brothers were on their way down.
          I began to make my way down the hallway
to look where the other police officers were that
had passed me in flight.  I got to the end of the
hallway.  I found no one.  I went back to the
phone and called my wife's office again.  Each
time I was just leaving a message.  As I picked
up to use the phone, the phone was dead.  I
wasn't able to use the phone.
          I took out a window, about four
windows, because now the quality of the air in
the room I was in is in question.  It was
starting to get charged.  So I started taking out
windows.  When I looked down, I saw ladders that
J. CANHAM 13
were twisted and cantilevered.  I saw light bars
that were just -- it looked as if you had a
blinking light under a thin layer of dust is what
it looked like.  It was the top of rigs.
          Now I assumed that's where the tower --
I believed that the fascia or the upper floors
had slipped from the building and dropped off,
not realizing at all that the tower had fallen.
          I began to make my way back into the
hallway, when people started to come up out of
the stairwells.  They were coming up from the
lower floors, saying that the second and third
floors were gone, you can't get out that way,
what are we going to do, in a panic.
          Other firefighters had also now entered
the floor.  They were coming from above, and a
couple were coming from down below.  A battalion
chief, a large man -- I don't know who he was --
he came in.  I asked him if he was aware of what
was happening.  He said, "No."
          I brought him over to the window where
I was, and I showed him out of the window.  I
said, "Look, this is what we're up against."  We
both looked at one another like "We're screwed."
J. CANHAM 14
          There were some firemen that were
yelling "Bail out."  They gave a bail out,
everybody bail out, and they were making their
way out of the building, down the stairs.  Some
civilians were panicking when they heard that,
because they saw firemen leaving and saying bail.
          The chief and I and two other firemen
stayed with the civilians.  We didn't go down the
stairwell that they were coming up, we moved
halfway down the hallway.  We found another
stairwell and started filing people down that.
          We did almost a leap frog.  I went down
to a landing.  I held my light until all the
people came by.  The chief and this other fireman
had passed me.  When the last person went by me,
I made my way down the next level, relieving that
fireman, and it was a leap frog to just try to
keep the people moving and just make our way
down.
          I got down to what I believe is the
lobby level.  I believe it was the lobby level.
It was a gray level, so if that's the lobby, it
was the gray level.  There were filing all the
civilians to the left, which would have been
south.
J. CANHAM 15
          I was exhausted at this time,
physically drained, trying to (inaudible).  I was
really wiped at the time.
          Oh, excuse me, let me go back to the
11th floor.  I have to do this.  I'm sorry.
Q. Go ahead.
     A.   I had passed a Lieutenant Ed D'Atri
from Squad 1.  He saw me.  He said, "Jimmy, where
are my guys?"  This is on the 11th floor after
the tower had fallen.  He had made his way up.
He had said, "Jimmy, did you see our guys?"  I
said, "No, Eddie.  Some bad shit just happened."
He said, "Yeah, I know.  I don't know where my
guys are."  He had gone up, and I had made my way
back down the hallway.
          This is after the last civilians had
gone by, just prior to me going back to look for
the cops.  I believe Eddie stayed on the floor
with me for a minute.  We gave a quick search.
Then he made his way up.  After that I didn't see
Ed anymore.
          Going back down to the lobby level.  I
got down to the lobby level.  There had to be six
J. CANHAM 16
to what I believe were maybe ten companies in a
staged area.  They were standing there.  They
were talking with one another.  Once again, a
very relaxed mode.
          The civilians were minimal at this
time.  There was a dark haze in the lobby, I
guess from the settling dust from the prior
collapse.
          I had made my way out on the West
Street side.  Once again, I passed these
companies, and even a couple of the guys joked.
They said, "Hey, Patrol, what are you doing?"  I
said, "Yeah, we're going to be here a while."  We
all snickered and laughed, and then I had exited
the building.
          As I entered the building, a body fell
maybe three or four feet from me and hit the
ground.  I got my back up against the wall and
scooched along the building going north up tower
one, going along.  Two or three more bodies had
impacted.
          I ran over to what I believe is
     Q.   Yes, that's Eight.
Eight --
J. CANHAM 17
     A.   Eight World Trade Center.  I made my
way along that wall and up and to the first bend.
When I saw I had a pretty clear area, I made it
over to this side.  It's an L shape going on -- I
don't know how to describe that area.
          I ran into Patrolman Paul Curran.  He
saw that I was pretty taxed.  Paulie looked wiped
out.  I said, "Paulie, what are you doing?"  I
said, "Where are the guys?"  He said, "I really
don't know.  I'm going to go up and take a look
for them."  I said, "All right, look, I'm going
to try to find out where our guys are, and we'll
regroup back in front of the building."  He said,
"Okay."
          He had left and gone north.  I began to
go up north and I said, let me turn around and go
back the other way, because I was thinking to
scoot down which would have been Vesey Street.
So I ended up here.  I started to make may way
back down Vesey, and the building began to
rumble.  It was a very quick time between when I
saw Paul.
          As it started to coming down, I darted
right back to the building which was eight World
J. CANHAM 18
Trade Center, dove next to a concrete traffic
barrier and a truck and just covered up, because
at the speed it was coming down, I saw that there
was no way to run.
          I didn't want to run north, because I
just didn't think I could outrun it, as taxed as
I was, equipment I was wearing.  I just didn't
think I was going to make any time.  So I ran
maybe six to eight feet, dove, and I just ended
up between this barrier and this parked truck,
covered up.
          After this it gets a little gray.  I
have no recollection of time.  I remember making
my way back down West Street, and I came upon an
engine.  There was a chauffeur and another guy
next to the rig.  He couldn't get his breath.  I
had gone through the same thing as Patrolman
Curran, puking up the dry dust, trying to clear
your throat, nothing was happening.
          I gave the chauffeur my mask.  He used
it for a bit.  I made my way over to the hydrant
and started splashing my face, trying to drink
down some water to clear this debris out of
my throat, the dust was -- visibility was maybe
J. CANHAM 19
five, ten feet.
          I got back to the chauffeur.  He said
he was doing better.  I splashed him with some
water.  We steam at the hydrant.  I said maybe we
can get the stang open or set up a fog pattern
and try to knock down some of this dust to make a
path for anybody that might have been this way.
We tried that.  We got no -- the pump didn't
engage.  I believe that we lost water pressure
somehow.  The chauffeur believed the same.
          I told the chauffeur I'm going back
over to the tower.  I made my way back down north
again.  I remember hearing all pass alarms.
Visibility was nil.  There was heavy smoke.
There was a lot of fire, a lot of car fires.
          I realized at that time I had no
strength.  I physically just couldn't do
anything.  I saw no one.  I saw no firemen.  I
felt I was alone.  I had just lost Paul, who was
my chauffeur when I worked with him.  I figured
he's gone.  I remember turning and walking away.
          An off-duty member from 105 Truck
grabbed me and dragged me to a diner.  There were
other members from the Fire Patrol there.  They
J. CANHAM 20
cleaned me up.  It was air-conditioned.  They
took my stuff off, flushed my face, my eyes,
washed me down.  I began to recollect what was
going on now.
          I immediately went to a phone.  The
proprietor gave me a phone, and I called the
house watch here in Brooklyn.  I gave them a head
count of who was in the diner with me.  There
were Fire Patrolmen, and I believe there was one
firemen.
          I gave everybody's name.  I told the
guy on house watch, "Take the names down, mark
the time.  This is who is alive right now.  I'm
very unaware of who else is around."
          I had commandeered a radio from one of
the members from Fire Patrol who was in the diner
at this time.  When I had gotten the radio, I
turned it on.  It was futile.  There were a lot
of maydays.  There were a lot of searching for
people.  The radio was useless as far as any kind
of command.  There was none.
          I made my way back towards West Street,
where I ran into Captain Greco, another member of
the Fire Patrol, a couple of firemen that were
J. CANHAM 21
wandering around aimlessly.  Everybody was in
shock.  Anybody that was in that area was just
mentally, physically gone.
          After that it's really gray.  I
remember we made our way back.  We tried to make
a sortie back into the building.  Physically
nobody had anything.  We started seeing a lot of
incoming companies now, inbound companies.
          Our supervisor had ordered us back to
40 Fulton, and we made our way back to 40 Fulton
Street, where we regrouped, came back to
Brooklyn, got cleaned up, got a little something
to eat and made our way back to the towers to
search.  And that went on for days after.
     Q.   You thought about going back into the
building.  About a minute ago you said that.
Which building were you going to go back into?
A. Tower one.
     Q.   Did you get a good view of it?  It was
just a pile of rubble.
     A.   It was a pile of rubble.  All you heard
were pass alarms.
     Q.   You heard pass alarms.
     A.   There were no firemen.  All the guys
J. CANHAM 22
that I had left -- there were ten companies in
there, I'm sure, as far as the number goes.  They
were all in that lobby area.  This lobby swung
around.  There were guys down this end.  There
were guys over there.
          Once again, they were escorting the
people -- when I came down, it was -- it was just
a small doorway.  It was an access doorway that
we had come out, and they had filed everybody to
the left.  I had gone to the right.  After that
it's just gray.
          I had believed at first, looking at the
map, that I was here, which would have been 40
feet from Vesey Street, 20 feet from the
building.  It was six of one, half dozen of the
other, because either way I was in front of this
building, either here or here.  I really can't
remember.
          I believe it was here because I
remember there was a truck parked into it.  There
was a truck parked into it.  I remember going
back days later.  I saw West Street directly in
front of tower one was buried.  Vesey Street and
the top of this building, some debris had fallen
J. CANHAM 23
this way.  I remember I was right in this one
little void, which the command center I believe
was set up here.
     Q.   Right.
     A.   So that's --
     Q.   You're talking about adjacent to number
eight World Trade Center, just west of the
building called number eight.
          When you went into the lower level of
One World Trade Center, the sprinkler heads were
going off.
     A.   Right, they were heads off.
     Q.   There was no fire; there was no heat.
Their heads were off from a pressure surge like
from the pressure created by the falling of
building two or what do you think?
     A.   What I believe set those heads off is
when those elevators had dropped --
     Q.   Why did the elevators drop?
     A.   They were sheered.
     Q.   They were sheered.  We didn't cover
that.  People told me, yeah, I think the
elevators dropped and the doors were blown out
and all that.
J. CANHAM 24
     A.   Right.
     Q.   The elevators were sheered?
     A.   They were sheered.
     Q.   What did the elevator doors look like?
     A.   They were buckled, cantilevered.  The
one woman was -- how she was standing up, I
didn't know.
     Q.   She was standing up?  She was alive?
     A.   She was standing up and alive, as I
popped it with my tool.  I had a converted
officers tool.  I made my own little.  It's very
good as far as leverage and so on and so forth.
I got the door open maybe six to eight inches.
          That's when the guys from -- once
again, I believe they were 10 Truck.  He had put
his officer's tool, my tool and the Halligan.  We
had both Halligans.  But the door was so warped
that we really couldn't get the strength to pop
it open.
          But when the guy pulled up with the
Port-A-Power, he was very confident.  He was
like, "Don't worry.  I've got her."  It seemed
almost like he had done this before, like he was
here working.  Once again, I had come off duty.
J. CANHAM 25
So this maintenance man had enough muster to get
that tool and begin to work on the doors right
away.  It just led me to believe that he had
things under control.
          So myself and the lieutenant from
whatever company that was were confident he could
do it, and we had moved on.
     Q.   I wonder where he is now.
     A.   Exactly.  He was ten feet from Sergeant
Sheehan and Keith Roma.
     Q.   You're the first guy that told me that
they saw D'Atri.  I know D'Atri.  Nobody else
told me that they saw him.
     A.   When you speak to the others from
Squad, they should tell you, because I had spoken
to them immediately after that.
          Once again, I'm doing this 23 years.
You always think, yeah, if you give a location,
you have a good idea where they can be.  This
changed all the rules.  This changed all the
rules.  This went from a structure to a wafer in
seconds, in seconds.
          I couldn't believe the speed of that
tower coming down.  I heard the rumble, I looked
J. CANHAM 26
up, debris was already 50 feet from the ground,
on its way down.  You looked and you ran.  You
just didn't --
     Q.   You reacted or you didn't survive.
     A.   You just moved.  You just ran.  You
knew you were dead.  I knew I was dead.  As I
thought of my children, life flashing before your
eyes, true.  You see it, you see it, you see it.
I saw my boys, I saw --
     Q.   That's about it?
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   Good.
          CHIEF MALKIN:  I thank Sergeant Canham
     for this interview.  The time is now 1633
     hours, and this concludes the interview.
File No. 9110371
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
     FIRE MARSHAL RICHARD MC CURRY
 Interview Date: December 18, 2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
                 McCurry
BATALLION CHIEF KING:  Today's date is
2
     December 18, 2001, the time is 1457 hours and
     this is Battalion Chief Steven King, Safety
     Battalion of FDNY.  I am conducting an
     interview with Fire Marshal Richard McCurry
     from SOC or Hooper Street, concerning the
     events of September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Richard, you can start whenever you want.
A. I was working a day tour on that day, an 8 to6daytour. Igetinaboutaquarterto8. I was doing some paperwork. I guess it's about 10 to 9. I heard somebody over the intercom say that the World Trade Center was on fire. I looked out the window and from our window you could actually see the World Trade Center, the New York skyline and I could see the smoke and flames coming out of the World Trade Center.
     Immediately the Chief got on the intercom and
told everybody to respond and to bring their turn
out gear and to report to the command center.  So my
partner, Mike Owney and I, as we were getting our
gear and get into the car to head on over, we heard
somebody say that a second plane had hit the tower.
     We headed in our vehicle, we arrive at the
                                                 3
Brooklyn Bridge and at that point there they had
closed the bridge to traffic so we were able to get
over the bridge right away, because they were
letting emergency vehicles over.  We went over the
Brooklyn Bridge, down Broadway and we parked our car
on I believe it was Cortlandt Street right off of
Church Street.
     As I got my gear out of the trunk I could see
the World Trade Center, both towers were literally a
half a block away in front of me.  I could see the
heavy fire and smoke pushing out of the both towers.
My partner and I then put on our gear, our boots and
helmets and coat and proceeded into I believe it was
tower number 2.  We were looking for a Fire Marshal
command post that we thought may have been inside
the tower.
     So as we got into the tower, I believe it was 2
World Trade Center was the first tower we were in, I
could see the evacuation of the building and it
struck me as being a very orderly evacuation.  I
don't remember anybody panicking.  People were
coming -- workers were coming down the stairs, there
were Police Officers in the building, I saw
firefighters coming in with their roll-ups.  Some
McCurry
                      McCurry
were going into the elevators and into the
4
stairwells.
     As we were looking for the command post that
the fire marshals had set up, we didn't see anybody
in that tower.  We proceeded to go to the other
tower through the underground concourse that they
have there.  At that point we didn't find any of our
guys from the Fire Marshal's office, so we proceeded
back to the first tower that we were in.  Which I
believe was 2 World Trade Center.  At that point we
were on the west side of the building and across
West Street I could see that they had a command post
set up at the world financial building and it looked
like there were some Fire Department personnel set
up at that command post.  So as we exited that
tower, at that point there were some jumpers.  I
could see the people who had jumped were in the
plaza right in front of us.  We went around the side
of the building and we crossed West Street and at
that point there was a Fire Department command post
set up over there.  I believe that's where Chief
Ganci and some of the members were, at that command
post.
     So as I was standing on the steps looking up at
                                                 5
the towers, I could see the people -- there were
some people who had jumped.  I could still see the
heavy smoke and fire pushing from both towers and my
partner, Mike Owney, my partner at the time, had
seen Commissioner Von Essen standing on the sidewalk
right in front of us.  So we approached the
commissioner and he was by himself and he started
walking away.  And my partner said, "Boss, this is a
terrorist incident.  You shouldn't be by yourself.
There could be secondary terrorists out here and you
have 'Fire Commissioner' on your back.  You're a
walking target.
     So he told us he was headed over to Barclay
Street to meet the Mayor at another command post
that was set up over there.  We said, "Well, we're
going to go with you."  So he said, "okay."  So as
we walked up West Street we made a turn on Vesey
Street.  We went approximately one or two blocks
when all of a sudden we heard this big roar.  It
sounded like another plane coming in or it sounded
like an earthquake, but it just didn't sound right.
So we all started running, my partner and I, and we
had the commissioner with us also.  The next thing I
know we were engulfed in this black cloud of smoke
McCurry
                                                 6
and we couldn't breathe, we couldn't see anything.
     Calling out for my partner.  Couldn't find him.
Eventually made it up the block a little bit.  When
the smoke cleared, my partner was behind me and the
commissioner was still with us.  We walked about
another block or two and wound up on Barclay street.
We went about a half a block on Barclay when the
Mayor and Police Commissioner Kerick walked out of a
building.  We literally bumped into them and they
had a bunch of their aides with them.
     So we looked at Commissioner Von Essen and he
had spoken to the mayor and he said they were going
to find a temporary command post.  So we had gone a
few blocks and we entered a restaurant.  At that
point we looked up and there was a big atrium with a
lot of glass.  They felt it wasn't secure enough so
we exited there and we started walking, I think we
were headed north now.  I don't remember exactly
what street we were on when I hear this same roar
again.  At this point I didn't know the first tower
had come down.
     So we just started running again, not knowing
what this noise was and as I turned around I could
see the second tower collapsing.  And we were
McCurry
                                                 7
literally running down the street and we came to the
quarters of I believe it was 24 Engine and 5 Truck
on Sixth Avenue and Houston.  So at that point we
forced the door.  There was a combination lock on
the door.  We forced the door.  We got in their
quarters.  We had the Fire Commissioner, the Police
Commissioner and the Mayor and a bunch of his people
and a few more cops who had showed up.  We set up a
command post there for a few hours and they were
making some phone calls and then about an hour and a
half, two hours later their vehicle showed up.  They
decided they were going to set up a command post at
the Police Academy.  So we got in the car with
Commissioner Von Essen and everybody headed uptown
to the Police Academy on 22nd Street and on the 6th
floor we secured an office.  We made some
notifications that the Fire Commissioner was going
to be at this location for a while.  We were giving
out the phone numbers and they started setting up a
command post.  And that's where we spent most of the
rest of that day.  And then later on that night the
commissioner went back down to the World Trade
Center.  We were with the commissioner.  We were
pretty much acting as his bodyguards and we wound up
McCurry
                                                 8
being detailed into that whole first week acting as
his security.
McCurry
File No. 9110372
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
SUPERVISING FIRE MARSHAL RANDALL WILSON
   Interview Date:  December 20, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
R. WILSON 2
          CHIEF KING:  Today's date is December
     20th, 2001.  The time is 1136 hours, and
     this is Battalion Chief Stephen King, Safety
     Battalion, FDNY.  I'm conducting an
     interview with Supervising Fire Marshal
     Randall Wilson, who is assigned to Brooklyn
     base Hooper Street, director of training.
     The interview is regarding the events of
     September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Randy, you can start whenever you want.
     A.   Okay.  I'm assigned to special
operations bureau of fire investigation.  I was
in my office at the time of the fire in the first
tower that got hit by the plane.  I was notified.
I was the supervisor in charge that day.  The
other supervisor in charge of special operations
was off.
          I grabbed Ken Moody.  He was the fire
marshal.  We went over, took the Brooklyn Bridge.
While on the Brooklyn Bridge, the second tower
got hit.  When we went over, we were able to park
our vehicle on Church Street.
          We got out, just regular attire, shirt
and tie and suit.  We went down Liberty Street
R. WILSON 3
towards West Street.  While on Liberty Street, we
were notified make sure that we have full
firefighting gear.  My gear was in my vehicle.
Ken Moody didn't have any gear, so I sent him
into 10 Engine, 10 Truck to grab some gear.
          I went back to my vehicle.  I moved it
even closer.  It was roughly at Church and
Liberty then.  I got dressed.  I picked up Ken
Moody, and we went to the command post located in
front of the hotel on West Street.
          We were at that location.  We were
trying to set up a separate command post for the
bureau of fire investigation.  At that point they
wanted us to relocate to Liberty and Vesey.  So
looking at the building, we walked around
exposure two to exposure three, which was Church
Street, and we were looking for Liberty and
Vesey, which don't intersect.
          At the time we weren't thinking that
they didn't intersect.  We asked somebody.  They
pointed us to the direction of Liberty.  When we
got to Liberty, we couldn't find Vesey.  We
turned around on Church.  We were going towards
Vesey.
R. WILSON 4
          While on Church Street in the area of
Fulton, we heard the noise, and we were trying to
go down the side street.  Just making the turn
onto the side street of Fulton and Church, I felt
the wind coming.
          So at that point I wasn't able to
outrun it or find another location, so I went
behind a car.  I had a female civilian with me,
whatever, and the tower came down.  You couldn't
see.  We were waiting to see when we could start
breathing or seeing or whatever.
          After the tower came down and it
started clearing, I was helping that woman.  At
the time that we were on Church, I probably had
approximately about a dozen, dozen and a half
marshals with me, trying to find the second
location.
          So at that point when the tower came
down, I was trying to locate the marshals.  Some
had gone down the subway.  Some had gone into
buildings, things like that.  So I had a
difficult time finding them.  I was trying to
assist the people that were in the area.
          Then the second tower came down.  At
R. WILSON 5
that point everybody was dispersed.  I wasn't
sure where everybody was.  I was finally able to
reach somebody.  To be honest with you, I
honestly forget how I was able to find out, but
we regrouped at Battery Park.
          At that point I took the wide way
around towards the Battery Park.  Then Bob Burns
would have come in from home, Chief McCahey and
myself, we had gone back to the scene area to see
what we could do to start setting up under
command post, something along those lines.
          That was pretty much it.
          CHIEF KING: Okay.  The time is 1140
     hours, and the interview with Supervising
     Fire Marshal Wilson is concluded.
File No. 9110373
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIRE MARSHAL MICHAEL CAIN
 Interview Date:  December 20, 2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
                                                 2
          BATALLION CHIEF KING:  Today's date is
     December 20, 2001.  The time is 1057 hours
     and this is Battalion Chief Steven King from
     Safety Battalion FDNY.  I'm conducting an
     interview with Fire Marshal Michael Cain, who
     is assigned to the DFI SOC command, our
     technical services unit.  This interview is
     regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Mike, you can start whenever you're ready.
     A.   I got to work about a little before
8:00 o'clock that morning.  I was in my office
checking out some of my cameras and straightening up
my office when one of the other Fire Marshals, Jim
Murphy, said there was a fire in the Trade Center
and it was a fifth alarm already.
     I went over to his office, which faces the
World Trade Center and I had my digital camera with
me and I looked out the window and I could see the
fire.  I took a few pictures of it and then my
supervisors were saying where we were going to go
over there.  This was a fifth alarm already so I
went back to my -- I thought a minute and I said,
You know what?  I better set up a video camera in
the window here.  So I went to my office.  I got a
Cain
                                                 3
video camera with a couple of tapes.  I set it up on
the tripod in the window facing the Trade Center
enclosing the top of -- the top, more like where the
cash area was and I started the tape and as I was
getting my fire gear ready looking out the window
again, when we saw the second plane crash into the
second tower.  I left the tape running and I knew it
was not an accident, you know, that this happened.
So I gave Jim Murphy a little instruction on how to
change the tape and he left the tape running.
     I went with Bobby Burns and Mike Starace, we
got in the car and we went over the Brooklyn Bridge.
We went down underneath the -- down to the West Side
Highway, came up West Street.  We parked on West
Street and I guess about Albany, West Street and
Albany, got out of the car and started going up West
Street and there were body parts in the street.  The
plane wheel was in the street.  You could see the
plane in the building.  We went to about West
Street, in front of -- West and Liberty, just before
the pedestrian bridge where Chief McCay wanted to
gather us all together just before we went to the
command post.  Then the Chief said to get my camera.
I went back to the car, I got the camera out of the
Cain
                                                 4
car.  Bobby Burns went back to the car with me and
as I got back up towards Liberty and on West Street
Bobby Burns yelled to me, "run."  I looked up.  I
took a few pictures as I saw the building start to
collapse, I started running back towards like Albany
and Carlyle streets and stopped again and I looked,
I took a few more pictures and I knew I wasn't going
to outrun this thing so I just ran and hid behind --
a found an ambulance.  I just waited and the smoke
caught up with me and I could hear the beams and the
rocks, you know, pieces of rock would hit me on the
helmet and I just hid behind the ambulance.  It
seemed like forever.
     You know, I was in the truck company for a long
time and when you go in through a search you look
for that peek on the floor, that 2 inches that you
always have the clear air and, you know, you can see
your victim.  I get down on the floor and I'm
looking for that clean air and there ain't nothing.
You know, I just stuck my head in my coat.  Lucky I
had my fire coat and helmet on and I just waited
until what seemed like forever for the smoke to
clear.
     When the smoke started to clear I ran back
Cain
                                                 5
towards the collapse zone, because I knew the rest
of the guys were over there and when I got there the
rigs were on fire, the pumper was on fire, the
Ladder company was on fire.
     I met up with supervisor Dave Lynn.  You
couldn't get through because of the pedestrian
bridge, it was filled with debris.  There was nobody
on our side of the bridge that was hurt, so what I
did was I made my way around the bridge down Albany
Street, I guess, and down past the esplanade and
then I started my way up towards the Yacht -- the
North Cove Yacht Harbor and by the time I made it up
there I almost made it to West Street again and all
the E.S.U. cops were running towards me and towards
everybody yelling, "Run."  And I heard that
distinctive sound again.  The sound of the building
collapse.  I could see it collapsing and I started
to run back towards the sea wall and as I was
passing the sea wall, the Jersey State Police had a
launch in the Cove Harbor and he was trying to pull
out, but the bow line was still attached to the
tire.  You know, where they tie the boat up.
     And I passed it by and then I looked up and the
building and I said, "Oh, I can make it back there."
Cain
                                                 6
He cut the engine and I was able to make it back to
whatever they call the metal thing they put the rope
around and I was able to get it off.  He had enough
slack and I just through to the launch, the cop on
the launch and I guess they made it out of the cove,
because they had wounded people on the boat.  And I
ran back towards the sea wall and when I got there
the smoke came again but it didn't stay as long.
Because there was a big breeze that came off of the
water there that pushed it back.
     Then we just made our way to West Street, just
looking for whatever -- anybody that was there.
Then we grouped up and found people and regrouped
back up at the marshal's with Chief McCay and
everything.  We went back.  They had a temporary
command post down by where the old Pier 1 was.  We
had Dr. Kelly back there and everybody else and then
we all moved the command post up, just up to the
college.  I guess it was the college.  We went back
to the college.  We did different things for the
next 59, 59 hours.
     Q.   That concludes your interview?
     A.   Yes.
          BATALLION CHIEF KING:  The time is 1105
Cain
                                            7
hours and the interview with Fire Marshal
                   Cain
Michael Cain is concluded.
File No. 9110374
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER PAUL HYLAND
   Interview Date:  December 20, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
P. HYLAND
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KING: Today's date is
December 20th, 2001, the time is 1400 hours, and this
is Battalion Chief Stephen King from the Safety
Battalion, FDNY.  I'm conducting an interview with
Firefighter 1st Grade Paul Hyland from Ladder Company
110, who was the OBN man on September 11th.  This
interview is regarding the events of September 11th,
2001.
     Q.   Paul, you can start whenever you'd like.
     A.   It's Paul Hyland from Ladder 110.  It was
about five or ten to 9:00 in the morning when we got
the run to respond to Manhattan for a possible 1076.
From actually the headquarters I could see the smoke
coming over Manhattan going into Brooklyn.
          Jumped on the rig going over the Brooklyn
Bridge.  That's when we got our first sight of the
World Trade Center burning and, as we were actually
crossing over, reports of someone from I guess --
because we had flipped over to radio transmissions and
we had confirmed people jumping and we had perfect
sight and actually we were looking to see what was
going on, and this was going to be a fucked up job.
          Going over the bridge, then we're trying to
make our way down there.  Went down Broadway.  People
P. HYLAND
3
running and trying to get out of the area.  Very
difficult, hard traffic.  Went down Liberty Street.  We
were actually looking -- we were trying to figure out
exactly the position of where we had to put the rig
because they wanted us down, I guess, it was really on
West Street and Vesey, and it turned out we had stopped
at Chambers and Liberty and we were waiting there
because there were thousands of people and everybody
was filming and just couldn't get across and we're
trying to figure out, and then there was a gigantic
explosion.
          I had the OB and I looked up and I just saw
the top of World Trade Center go up like a lit candle.
It just everything just lit up and I thought it was
maybe a secondary explosion, because if you looked from
where we were, they're twins, so you're going to
picture the second -- I didn't see the plane go in and
I thought it was just a secondary explosion in the same
tower, and everything just came down on the street.  It
was just raining steel.  We said we're not going that
way.  So we were going to back up and we had to go down
to Broadway.  We ended upcoming back.  We were on Vesey
and Liberty again.  So we went back up and landed up
parking the rig at Vesey and, I guess, Vesey and what
street was that?
          (Pause.)
P. HYLAND
4
     A.   I guess Vesey and the Millenium Hotel.
Church Street.  I'm sorry.  Church and Vesey.  We were
coming across and we walked down.  We had to go down to
the command center.  We carried all our tools, the
bottles, everything, and as we're walking down, part of
the plane engine was sitting right in the street, still
burning.  I said, look, this is the plane.
          That was the other thing.  Another engine
company, as we were marching, did shoot right down
Liberty Street with all the debris going right there.
I thought they were crazy.  I had no idea.  I can't
remember what engine company it was, but they shot
right across.
          So we ended going around to West Street.
Lieutenant Mera, the lieutenant for that day, I guess
he saw a command station, command headquarters right
inside the north tower, which is Tower 1?
Q. One?
     A.   We went in, busted through one of the
windows, opened up, made like a door.  I can't recall
the fire companies who were there, but we responded
there.  We were waiting.  We knew we were going to be
P. HYLAND
5
going up and it was a staging area for us.  So I stood
over by the -- I said let's get over by the elevator
banks, put all our stuff down.  Our Engine, 207, all
came over with us.  We were just sitting there talking,
watching what was going on, and Lieutenant Mera came
back to us and he said that we've got to respond up to
the 21st floor, that there are people trapped.  I'm not
sure of the Chief that was with us who was assigned to
us, maybe if you said his name, but I can't recall, and
I think we had a maintenance guy with us at the time.
          We were walking around.  We walked to the
back.  I guess we were walking east inside the
building, which was towards Vesey Street, right?  Yes,
where they had that mezzanine, they had an escalator
coming down.  There were just hundreds and hundreds of
people just coming down at that point.  The maintenance
guy said I think the elevators are working, or it was
the Chief said it.  The Chief went around and says take
a look at some of the elevators.  I think we had a
maintenance guy with us at the time.  He said these
low-rise are working, it will get you up to 16.
          We said, well, this is not a normal
procedure.  We tried the firemen's service, brought the
elevators down, put it in firemen's service, and about
P. HYLAND
6
all of us got into the elevator.  It was a little
unsettling.  We went up I think a couple floors.  We
stopped and opened up.  It opened.  So we went up to
16, which was great because, walking 16 flights, we
wouldn't be able to operate.
          We got to the floor, went into the staircase,
I think it was staircase C.  It was the one right
there.  It was on the south side or west side.  We went
out and there were just people coming, constant amount
of people, just a steady flow, but we couldn't attack
with the steady flow of people.  I mean, the staircases
weren't that wide.  We were shoulder to shoulder with
these people with tools, we're banging them, telling
them to step aside, and they didn't understand.
They're just panicking.  It was a nightmare.
          So we got up to 23rd and they were going to
try and clear that stairway out and make it an attack
staircase.  We actually had the people come out of the
staircase and walk down to the other one and we were
going to make them go down this one and make this the
firemen's staircase so we could come up.  We dropped
our stuff on the 23rd and then Lieutenant Mera said
down on the 21st we have people trapped.
          We get down to the 21st floor.  Me and Artie
P. HYLAND
7
Riccio from Ladder 119, we took the south end of the
building.  We split up.  We paired off.  Lieutenant
Mera, Mike Beehler and Dave Sandvik took the north end
of the building.  We made our way around.  There was no
smoke.  It was empty, but we were checking doors,
forcing all the offices.  We went around popping doors,
popping doors, popping doors, all the way around, just
anybody in there?  Nothing.  We were all getting very
overheated and I have to say I took -- one of these
offices were very expensive.  I took a pitcher of water
and just drank it right there, me and Artie, and then
we got back.  One of the doors we forced was like a
water cooler -- it was microwaves and coffee pots and
they had water and stuff.
          So we got back to the other attack staircase,
which was in the center of the building.  We were all
sitting.  We were just waiting there for a few minutes,
and we said we were going to go up to the next floor,
and as we were waiting, everybody is sweating and hot
and getting dehydrated.  I told my officer, Wayne, I
said, listen, I know where I can get some water.  I
said it's right over here.  It's just down and to the
back.  I says I'm just going to pick up the cooler and
bring it into the staircase so everybody gets water.
P. HYLAND
8
So he says don't go far.  I says I'm going to put my
mask right here.  I'll just put my mask down.
          I walk down and I make a left.  Now I'm about
20 to 25 feet from the windows and the building starts
to shake, and I look out and I'm just seeing all the
steel from the south tower coming down right in front
of my face, just all the steel, I mean, everything.  I
thought it was our building going down.  So I just ran
back, and the guys thought I was Derek Jeeter because I
scooped up my mask, ran into the staircase, we donned
our masks and we just stood there and the building
shook and we just huddled like children.
          It shook.  We took about a minute or so,
that's all I recall, a minute or two, then it stops.
Everything was quiet.  Then we went back out of the
stairs.  All the sheetrock, all the ceilings had come
down in the building, guys were coming running back
in.  I think Dave and Artie said the windows were blown
out and the wind blew through the -- lucky they didn't
get sucked out.  Then someone gave a Mayday to get out
of the building, as I understand.  I know it was just
evac, but I didn't know if it was a regular Mayday or
just evacuation.  Everybody out of the building.
          At that point it was only firemen I thought
P. HYLAND
9
at that point and we're all starting to make our way
down through the building not knowing that the whole
south tower -- I thought it was just a partial
collapse.  No one gave any word that it was a total
collapse or the south tower is gone or anything like
that.  I don't know.  So we just start walking our way
down, but there's a line of firemen all the way down in
front of us.  There's not a step that doesn't have a
fireman on it and we're all walking down.
     Q.   Did you see civilians or was it all firemen?
     A.   I only recall firemen at this point.
          Going down, going down, and at times you
actually had to stop.  There's just nowhere to go.  I
mean, they're not moving.  We're like come on, guys,
come on, let's go, let's go, and they can't.  Probably
because I don't realize that the lobby is probably as
black as what I'm going to find out in about five
minutes, knowing the way we're coming out and it's
nighttime or it's debris.  So we're waiting.  We're
like, come on, guys, let's go, let's go, and we're just
waiting and it took a lot of time.  We were up on the
21st floor.  Those are double flights, I believe.  One,
two, scissor.  That's one floor.  So it's 42 flights of
stairs.
P. HYLAND
10
          So it took us quite a bit of time to hit the
lobby and it was just destroyed.  I mean, it looked
like -- it wasn't the same lobby 15 minutes ago.  It
was just completely gone, every window was shattered,
all the ceiling tile, the elevator banks had let go it
seemed, the floor was all crushed down.  I didn't see
any -- I don't want to say I didn't see any bodies
there right now.
          At that point we were waiting and we're
watching.  It was all dust on the lower burn, and I did
remember I went over because I knew where we came out
right away -- where we went in.  I went over there and
I was just -- because we sort of got lost with some of
the other guys and we didn't want to leave anybody
behind.  I saw Lieutenant Mera, I saw Dave Sandvik, I
said, guys, over this way, this way.  Everybody was
coming out these doors because everybody was just going
through glass.  I saw chards of glass that guys were
walking under.  If they let go, they would have cut
them in two.  Then everybody got together, I know Mike
Beehler, he was a proby, so I was watching him, and I
said, all right, let's go.  Then, I had to remember, I
saw one of the dead jumpers that were right next to
me.
P. HYLAND
11
          But as we went out, now we're all overheated
and stuff.  We sat down right underneath the west
bridge is it?  The pedestrian bridge.  We were sitting
on top of a police car right underneath there.  We sat
there maybe like two minutes, three minutes.  Wayne
says, come on, let's get a little further away from the
building, you know, if this building let's go, run
along the sides of the building because that's the only
thing that's going to protect you.
          I think I saw -- I think it was two things.
I think it was 6 Truck had put its aerial up on the
hotel over there.  I remember, going back, I don't want
to backtrack, but I do remember when we were going in
some radio transmissions that one fire truck pulled
right up in front and one of the Chiefs was screaming
at him get away from the front of the building.  I
can't remember the truck company that was there.
          Then, going back to my story, we started
walking north a little bit.  We got maybe a half a
block away and I was turning around watching.  I think
Wayne was saying don't stop, but I turned around and
I'm watching this thing.  I don't know.  I just saw the
top half of the north tower sink and sort of just sat
down on itself, sat down, and then just started
P. HYLAND
12
shattering and just blowing out like a Christmas tree.
That's when I screamed, here it comes, run for your
lives, and they all ran.
          We ran -- I don't think we ran too far.
Everything was just coming at us.  I just hid behind a
car.  Another fireman, Tom, from a Manhattan company, I
just said, well, what's your name?  He said Tom.  I
said I just want to know who I'm going to die with, and
we just hid behind a car.  Then we saw what happened,
the whole thing came at us, and we just kept walking
north after that.  We just wanted to get away from it
as fast as I could.  That's it.
          BATTALION CHIEF KING:  Okay.  The time is
1415 hours and the interview with Firefighter Paul
Hyland is completed.
File No. 9110375
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER DAVID SANDVIK
   Interview Date: December 20, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
D. SANDVIK
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KING:  Today's date is
December 20th, 2001.  The time is 1440 hours and this
is Battalion Chief Stephen King with the Safety
Battalion, FDNY.  I am conducting an interview with
Firefighter 2nd Grade David Sandvik from Ladder Company
110, who HAD the roof on September 11th.  This
interview is regarding the events of September 11th,
2001.
     Q.   Dave, you can start whenever you're ready.
     A.   Okay.  The day started out with I had the
watch and I remember guys standing out on the apparatus
apron and they could see the smoke coming from
Manhattan, so we knew something was going on in
Manhattan.  I went back into the watch, I switched the
radio onto the Manhattan frequency and found out it was
the World Trade Center.  Then right after that the news
flashed and started showing the Trade Center where the
first plane hit and I started getting dressed.  I got
my radio on, my bunker pants on, because we normally go
to Manhattan pretty quick, just for a smoke condition
at the Trade Center.
          So I was standing right in front of the
computer and the radio was already up to a third or
fourth alarm and the computer came over and it was
D. SANDVIK
3
filling out the alarm with us, 205 and the battalion,
respond to the north tower.  So I got on the PA, told
everybody we're going.  It started out as like we're
going to an unbelievable job at the Trade Center.
That's all we thought.
          Everybody gets on the rig, we start heading
over the Brooklyn Bridge, and my position was the roof
and I'm sitting in the middle seat, so facing backwards
I couldn't see anything.  I remember asking the OV
what's going on, what's going on, and he said there are
multiple floors on fire, and I'm just thinking, wow,
we're in for a hell of a job.  Halfway over the bridge,
I guess midspan, all of a sudden I hear on -- we switch
over to the Manhattan frequency now on the rig and I
hear Manhattan calling Division 1, saying Division 1,
almost like am I hearing you correctly?  We got jumpers
out of the Trade Center?  Division 1 was like, yeah, we
got jumpers, and right at that point I remember
everybody went from being like, wow, we got a job, to
like this is not a good thing we're going to, this is
something like a worst nightmare.  You never want to
hear about jumpers but anyway...
          So we get over there and we come over the
Brooklyn Bridge heading down Broadway and we pulled
D. SANDVIK
4
down a street that leads to the back side of the Trade
Center, it's off Church Street, and we get off the rig
and at this point there's quite a few people, thousands
of people coming up towards us, away from the Trade
Center, but a lot of people, spectators too still kind
of looking at what's going on.  We start heading down
the block and we get down to I guess about Church
Street and the second plane hit, and I remember just
being underneath.  I never heard the motor of the
plane, the sound of the engines.  We just heard the
explosion, you felt the explosion, and looking straight
up and seeing that fireball that you see on the news,
but we're underneath looking up now at it.
          Lieutenant Mera, which was a great move, said
to get back on the rig and we were going to try to make
it around to the west side of the towers.  So we ended
up backing up to Broadway, then we head down Broadway,
and at this point the streets were just thousands and
thousands of people now.  After the second plane hit,
everybody was just fleeing Manhattan.  We were able to
manage to come down like a side street and we end up on
Church Street now heading north and we end up, I guess,
where like the farmers market is, somewhere in that
vicinity, on Church Street.
D. SANDVIK
5
          So we get off the rig and now we walk up to
Vesey Street, west on Vesey to the west side and then
south on the west side, and we're walking past the
north tower and I remember we were looking for the
command post.  We figured it was set up outside and we
didn't see it.  We actually walked past the tower and
the boss said he remembered that the ticket said we
were going to the north tower and we already passed the
north tower, so he guided us to make a U-turn.  So we
walked into the north tower and the command post
happened to be in the lobby of the north tower.
          So as we get into the lobby, he directs us to
go off to the side and relieve ourselves, take the
extra cylinders, put them on the floor, take all our
extra equipment and just put them on the ground to
reserve some energy.  As we start putting stuff down, I
take a roof rope, put it down, an extra cylinder, put
it down, I see Engine 207 come walking in.  So I call
them over and they come over and they start putting
down their roll-ups.
          We're in there maybe about a minute, two
minutes, just enough time to get in there, put our
stuff down, and then he came back over to us and said,
okay, we got our assignment.  We're going up to the
D. SANDVIK
6
21st floor.  We got a report of people trapped.  So we
pick up everything, put the roof rope back on, extra
cylinders, and I happened to see a lobby guy, like a
guy that works in the lobby, and I asked him which
elevators does he have running, and he said all the
elevators are out except for the low-rise, which will
take us to 16.
          So we get into the elevator and now it's us,
I believe a Chief from Battalion 11, well, I'm sure of
him, and I think there were some guys from an engine
company, but I'm not sure about that.  We take the
elevator up to 16, get off, get into the stairwell, and
we start heading up.  The stairwell was pretty narrow
and in the single file, us going up, civilians coming
down.  We get up to 21 and it happened to be a floor
where the sign on the door says no re-entry on this
floor.  The nearest floor to re-enter was 23 or a floor
below.  The boss decided that we were blocking the
traffic if we just stood there and forced the door, and
so he said let's go up to 23, unload our stuff, almost
make it like our own little command post, and then
we'll come back down and then force the door.  So we
went up there.  I got rid of the roof rope, extra
cylinders.  Whatever we didn't need we just left on
23.
D. SANDVIK
7
          We came back down to 21, forced the door,
went into the floor, searched the whole floor, forcing
40, 50 doors.  There was a conference room.  We forced
that.  We just finished searching the floor and I was
with -- it was me, the boss and Artie, and the south
tower came down and our building rocked.  I remember
windows blowing out and the air pressure in the hallway
felt like we were almost in like a wind tunnel, and I
remember the boss just saying get to the staircase.
          So we ran to the staircase.  It felt like an
eternity, but we were standing there waiting and he's
trying to call Battalion 11 on the radio and couldn't
get them, couldn't get them.  Finally, after about two
calls, I said to the boss, I said, I'll run up to 23
and look for him.
          So I go up to 23, look down a couple
hallways.  Complete darkness.  There was nobody
around.  The floor was deserted.  I come back down and
I told him, I said, there's nobody up there.  Nobody's
on 23.  So he says okay.  He tries to call him again.
Then at that point they gave the call for everybody to
get out.  Didn't say anything about the collapse of the
south tower.  We didn't know there was a collapse of
D. SANDVIK
8
the south tower.  We thought -- well, I personally
thought it was a collapse of the upper floors and
that's what caused the building to rock and windows to
blow out with the shift in the building.
     Q.   The upper floors of your tower?
     A.   Yes, the upper floors of --
     Q.   The north tower?
     A.   -- of our tower, yes.  Not in my wildest
dream did I think those towers were coming down.
          So when they said to evacuate, get out, we
got into the stairwell and headed on down, nice and
calmly, nobody was running, nobody was pushing.  It was
just nice, calm, orderly fashion.  We were checking
floors as we were going down.  I mean, checking a floor
meant, if we got to a door, opened it and nobody was
behind it, we continued, and if the guys in front of us
opened a door, we passed that door.  At one point, me
and the OV, we came across a door that was locked and
it couldn't have been checked because it wasn't
forced.  So we forced the door, opened it.  I yelled
down the hallway and no answer and I turned to my boss
and said is that good enough?  He said, yeah, that's
good enough, and we just walked down, nice and calm.
          As we got down to the lower floors, I guess,
D. SANDVIK
9
I'd say we were on the 6th floor, traffic in the
stairwell came to two stops where I actually sat down
in the stairs.  I sat down for maybe a minute and then
the traffic started moving and we got back up and
started going again.  It was I'd say 95 percent -- I
mean, it was almost all firemen.  We had a civilian
here, a civilian there, but it was mostly firemen.
          We got down to the lobby, and when we got out
of the stairwell, the lobby was deserted.  Nobody was
down there except the people coming out of our
stairwell.  We were walking through and the elevator
doors were blowing off.  The lobby was just like a
complete mess.  I remember grabbing the proby that day
and we were looking down the elevator bank and I said,
man, this would make a hell of a picture.  Then, you
know, we just kind of walked out.  When we got to the
edge of the building, all the windows were gone.  There
were guys outside telling us hold up or come out, and
the guy in front of me stopped, the guys outside told
him to stop and then all of a sudden waved us on out.
          We came out and we ended up on the west
side.  Right south of Vesey Street there's a pedestrian
bridge and we went underneath that bridge and we
actually stopped there a minute.  We thought we were
D. SANDVIK
10
safe, we were under cover and anything falling from the
building, you know, we were protected by this
pedestrian crosswalk, and the boss said come on guys,
we're still a little bit close.  Let's move up a little
bit.  So we walked up about a half a block further and
we saw Engine Co. 224's rig, and he said let's go over
there because we were running with them and we figured
we'd start unloading our masks and loosening up our
jackets, put some of our tools down that we had left.
          So we get over to the engine and we just
started taking a couple things off.  I got my mask off,
I put my Halligan down, and that's when the south tower
came down.  It was just unbelievable.  We started
running.
     Q.   The north tower.
     A.   The north tower.  Sorry.  Yes, the north
tower came down.  We started running up the west side,
maybe got to the end of 224's rig.  I'm running,
looking up, and I can see the top of the tower starting
to come down and it was just an unbelievable sight.
The OV yells holy shit, here it comes.  I'm looking at
the top of the building and when he yells that, I look
down and I see the mushroom effect come rolling down
the street, and we knew we weren't going to outrun
this.
D. SANDVIK
11
          So along the west side there, it was just
masks laid down.  Thank God they were left there.  I
remember I just took like three steps over there and
grabbed a mask.  I couldn't even get it on my back.  I
just threw the face piece on, threw my helmet back on,
and we were swallowed up in this debris of -- you name
it, it was in there.  Total darkness.  Didn't know if
we were buried or -- we had no idea what was going on.
          About ten, 15 minutes, you know, who knows
how long it really took, but it was taking so much time
and I remember saying, boy, it's a beautiful, clear day
and I'm outside and I can't see anything in front of
me.  I thought my mask was just covered because I
remember just wiping the front piece thinking I was
going to wipe away the dust, and I still couldn't see.
So I start searching the ground and I came across
another cylinder.
          So I set up the mask on the ground, getting
ready to, if I ran out of air, that I could change the
bottles.  I didn't have to change bottles, but the air
started lifting, and then all of a sudden I could see a
couple of faint flashlights, so I knew other guys were
walking around.  So I got up and it started lifting and
D. SANDVIK
12
I just started heading uptown and before I knew it, I
was out in clear air, and I kept going uptown and then
we just -- somehow the company got back together and we
walked uptown, I guess, I don't know, five, six, seven
blocks.
          Then we took a break on the center medium of
the west side, and our can man wasn't with us.  So the
officer kept on calling him, calling him, calling him.
Finally, we got through to the radio and found out he
was all right, and he got reunited with us, I guess,
about a half hour after that, and that was about it.
          We stayed on the west side by -- what is
that, a college over there?  I don't know.  We stayed
up there, about eight blocks away, and then the recall,
guys started showing up on the recall.  I mean, me
personally, we were just spent.  The guy next to me was
throwing up.  It felt like we went to ten jobs in a
matter of two hours.
          Then that was basically it.  We didn't really
do much.  Well, later on that night we went in, we
searched the subway, found our rig, and they said, if
you find your own rig, you can drive it back to
quarters, which we did, which was about 10:00 o'clock
that night.
D. SANDVIK
13
          BATTALION CHIEF KING:  Okay.  The time is
1457 hours and the interview with Firefighter Sandvik
is concluded.
File No. 9110376
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER JOHN WILSON
   Interview Date:  December 20, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
J. WILSON 2
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today is December 20th,
     2001.  The time is 7:07 p.m.   This is
     Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan of the Safety
     Battalion of the Fire Department of the City
     of New York.  I'm conducting an interview
     with John Wilson, firefighter first grade,
     from Engine 58, in the quarters of Engine
     58.
     Q.   John, just tell me the events as you
recall them on September 11th.
     A.   We were dispatched as soon as the
second plane hit.  We were watching it in the
house.  They sent us down basically right away.
So we got down there pretty quickly.  I couldn't
really say the time.  I guess we parked on West
Street and, I would say, probably maybe Barclay.
I couldn't be sure.  It was a block or two away
from the Trade Center, north of the Trade Center.
There were a lot of rigs there, so we didn't get
that close.
          We started walking down West, and the
first thing we realized were the noises we were
hearing were people hitting the ground.  So we
had to kind of detour across -- we went, I guess,
J. WILSON 3
that median, over to the west side now of West
Street, because we saw all these people coming
down and we didn't want to get hit by them.
          So we kind of detoured around West
Street like to the west side of West Street, kept
walking, took a lot of extra bottles with us,
whatever we could take.  I think we took a rope.
          We were under the impression that the
command post was at Liberty and West, so that's
where we were headed.  When we got there, there
wasn't anybody there, no inclination, no -- it
didn't seem like there was ever a command post
there.  But there was nobody around.
          We didn't go down Liberty for the same
reason as West Street, because people were
jumping and there was crap coming off the
building.  So we kind of went right by this south
pedestrian walkway on West Street,  you know,
that goes over, and I guess there was kind of
like a parking lot or something on that corner
between Liberty and Cedar on West Street here.
We kind of were going through that, walking wide
of the street so we didn't get hit by anything.
          First thing I remember was we kind of
J. WILSON 4
got split up.  There was eight of us.  The
lieutenant was worried that three of the guys had
gone ahead.  They walked I guess a little faster
than us.  So they were ahead.  Now he was like
where are they?  We could see them up the block.
They were further up Liberty when I first saw
them.
          Then we came over to realize that one
of the brothers was down on the ground, and I
went over there.  I believe it was Danny Suhr
from 216 Engine.  He was on the ground, and his
guys were with him.  He was a mess.  The other
bunch of guys really didn't stand there that
long, because they were taking care of their own
guy.
     Q.   What happened?  Did he get hit with
debris?
     A.   He got hit with a body.  I didn't see
it, but that's what they told me when I went over
there.  I said, "What happened?  Is he all
right?"  They said, "He got hit by" -- I don't
know who told me, but that's what I was told.  I
didn't see that.  He was crumpled on the ground,
and he didn't look too good.
J. WILSON 5
          Then someone -- I don't know if it was
a Port Authority guy, because there were a few
people out on the street with white shirts and
radios, like maybe from the buildings.  One of
those guys or a civilian gave me a radio.  They
said, "Here."  It was a Fire Department radio.
It said 216 on it.  It was all full of blood.  So
I guess it might have been Danny Suhr's.  So I
threw it in my pocket.
          Now we noticed Chief Scheffold walking
up Liberty Street.  We're yelling at him to get
out of the street because we didn't want him to
get hit, but he just kept walking.  Now we were
deciding where we were going to go.  The command
post we were assuming was probably in the Trade
Center lobby by this time.
          We ran into the same Port Authority
security guys, whoever they were, because they
had their own radios.  They were telling us that
they think it was in Two World Trade they said
there were firemen in the lobby there.  He said
we could access that by going through the
Marriott Hotel.  There was a bar I believe on
Liberty called Tall Ships.  He said if we went
J. WILSON 6
through there we could go through the lobby, and
then we could get to the Trade Center.  So that's
what we did.
          We quickly ran across the street, and
we got into the Vista Hotel through the Tall
Ships bar.  We walked through the lobby I guess
of -- we walked through the bar.  I guess we came
to the lobby.  From my recollection I thought we
kind of turned to the right.  It wasn't like a
hard turn, but we went to the right, going east
now.  That's where we hooked up with the other
three.  We saw the other three guys that we got
separated from.  So we got together with them.
So now the eight of us were in the lobby.
          I don't know where they came from or if
they were there when I got there, but Chief
Scheffold, Chief Marchbanks, Chief Galvin and my
lieutenant were having a little powwow.  They
were talking.  The lieutenant said relax.  We
took our masks off.  We were standing in the
lobby.
          At this time we were in the lobby of
the Marriott.  Me, I personally don't remember
seeing other companies at this time.  It was
J. WILSON 7
basically us and a few civilians, mostly people
that worked there.  It's totally hearsay, but I
know a couple of the other guys, they'll tell you
in their interviews they had seen 288, 23 Engine.
So they'll be able to tell you better where they
went.  But I know of other guys from 58 did see
other companies, but I personally don't remember
seeing them.
          I would say we were in the lobby I
don't think it was more than five or ten minutes,
and they were talking, I guess discussing where
should we go, what should we do.  I think the
lieutenant was on his way back to us to talk to
us, and we heard the loudest roar that I ever
heard in my life.
          Everybody just ran.  We ran away from
the noise.  So the noise was to my east as I was
standing the there.  We ran back basically the
way we came in, I don't know how far.  All of a
sudden I was just picked up.  I felt the wind
from behind me just pick me up and throw me.  So
now I'm on the ground.
          Now I started crawling.  Hopefully I
think I'm crawling the way I came in.  However
J. WILSON 8
long that lasted, ten seconds -- I don't know.
It seemed like a long time.  It just subsided,
the noise.  It was just like a crescendo sound
like boom, boom, boom, and it just got louder and
faster for like -- what did it last, ten seconds
or something like that?
          After it was over I'm amazed, because I
thought that was the end of it right there.  I
was getting pelted.  I was just trying to crawl.
When I got up, I grabbed the flashlight.  There
was a flashlight on the floor.  It wasn't even
mine.  I just grabbed it.  The first person I saw
was one of these hotel guys crawling around.  I
grabbed him and said, "Come on.  We'll go this
way."
          Now I'm trying to call my guys.  Now I
started using the radio that they gave me
outside, because I had, I would say -- four of
the guys with us were probably basically probies.
I tried to call them at the same time as I'm
calling guys in the lobby.  I'm trying to see
what the hell is going on.  Now it's pitch-black.
          I hear my lieutenant on the radio.  I
don't know where he is, but he's calling me.
J. WILSON 9
He's calling whoever he can call too.  By this
time I ran into two of the other guys, Mike and
Scott, from 58.
          Now it seemed like there were people
all over the place.  I don't know where they came
from.  We tried to sort of go out towards -- we
saw light.  I think it was towards Liberty
Street.  It was just like a light.  There were no
doors or anything like that.
          A bunch of guys lifted up a rolldown
gate that must have just fell down, because it
wasn't there, I don't think, when we came in.  So
they lifted that up.
          Now the lieutenant, he was calling us
and I'm trying to find out where he is.  I'm
calling all the guys outside.  Actually I think
John Weber had the radio.  I got him on the
radio.  He said he was outside already.  He got
out with three of the other guys, I believe.  So
I said, "All right.  Stay outside."
          We didn't know where the lieutenant was
yet.  I still to this day the three of us aren't
sure, the three of us that were in there now
still with the collapse, the first one, that we
J. WILSON 10
somehow located the lieutenant.  I don't know if
I found him or who found him.  We don't even
know.  We just heard him now, without his radio.
I think we just heard his voice.  We went back
towards the building in the lobby area.  I
believe he was behind the elevators that were
facing south.  I think there was a bank facing
south and north.
          So we found him.  Now he's buried.
He's behind this elevator.  He's trapped.  We
told him that everybody was accounted for.  That
was a load off his mind.  He was worried about
where everybody was.  I said, "We've got
everybody."  He was like, "All right.  Then get
me out of here."  We're like, "All right.  We're
going to get you out of there."
          At this point I personally didn't know
that that whole building collapsed.  I knew
something collapsed on us.  That was some scene
there for a minute.
          At this point -- I don't know if you
want me to tell you this, because I didn't
actually see that.  But Chief Galvin had a rope,
and he wrapped it around a pillar, and he went
J. WILSON 11
one way and he gave the bag to Scott from 58.  He
went towards where Lieutenant Nagel was with the
bag.
          So I remember him dropping the bag at
our feet.  We were standing there talking to Bob.
He said he was fine.  He said, "I'm all right.
I'm not hurt."  I gave him a flashlight to see if
he could look around, see what was going on in
there.
          Then the weirdest thing was -- you
mentioned before -- I never really heard any
maydays.  I didn't hear any of that.  I didn't
have the radio out of my pocket until the
collapse happened.  Now when I brushed myself
off, it was in my pocket.  So I didn't have the
mic out or anything like that.  So that's why I
wasn't hearing anything.
          113 Truck appeared out of somewhere.
They weren't with us -- they said they heard on
the radio -- I guess they heard that we were in
there because my lieutenant was trapped.  So they
came in.  Ray Brown was the lieutenant.  I know
him a little bit.  His brother was a fireman
here.  So he came in.  I guess there was four of
them.
J. WILSON 12
          So Scott Paskewitz went out.  We asked
him, "Scott, why don't you go out and see if you
can get some tools," because we had nothing.  So
he went out, and he came in -- I don't know if he
came in, but 113 and him wound up coming in
together.  They had a partner saw, a saws-all.
113 brought in air bags.
          We proceeded to try to do something
with Bob.  I don't know how to describe it.  It
was just a maze of junk.  There were little
studs, there was sheetrock, there were pipes,
wires, everything.
          He was just in this little corner
behind the elevator.  He said he was fine but it
wasn't like he could walk out.  I could see him.
I could talk to him.  The ceiling above him
looked very shaky.  Something had knocked out.
It was like a pillar.  It was a wooden-faced
pillar.
          A lot of those pillars I think had wood
facing on them.  The one I saw later when the
building was coming down, it was just an I beam
probably.  I don't know if it was.  That was
J. WILSON 13
leaning against the wall.  It looked like it was
holding a lot up.  So we couldn't touch that.
          Ray Brown, he was like -- I was kind of
trying to watch the ceiling, and Mike got the
saws-all.  He cut, I would say -- at the same
time, I forgot to say, it was Lieutenant Nagel,
I'm talking to him.  He told me that he could
hear Chief Marchbanks and Chief Scheffold.
          I was like, "You all right?" He said,
"Yeah, yeah.  Marchbanks and Scheffold are right
back here."  He could hear them, I guess; I
couldn't.  He told me that they were right near
him somewhere; how far, I don't know.
          So Mike had cut, I would say, maybe two
pieces of pipe or the sheet metal or whatever he
was cutting.  He was cutting another piece.  Now
we heard this noise again, like this rumbling
noise.  I assumed the same thing is happening
that just happened however long ago it was.  It
didn't seem like it was a half hour.  It seemed
to happen pretty fast.
          So I just was standing right there.  It
was Ray, me, Mike and Scott.  The other two guys
from 113 actually left.  Ray asked them -- he
J. WILSON 14
goes, "I'm going to go outside and see if I can
go around."  He was looking for another way to
access Bob Nagel.
          So it was just Ray, me, Mike, Scott and
one guy from 113 that I remember being there now.
So it was five of us.  Now we hear this rumbling
again.  We're like, "Oh, Jesus.  Now what?"  We
tried to run again.  We were running the way I
think we came in.  We were running back, I would
say, towards Liberty Street, in whatever's left
of the hotel now.  Maybe half of it is left now.
I don't know.
          So the same scenario.  We get knocked
down and pounded around and knocked around.
However long, 10 seconds, whatever, 20 seconds,
from what they say, whatever I read.  It just
seemed longer when it happened.
          So now I'm still around after the
second one.  I'm like, "Oh, man, this is
amazing."  Now I'm screaming to Scott.  I scream,
"Scott."  He said, "What?"  I would say he was a
foot away from me.  We were laying on the floor,
because I hit the floor and I rolled and I hit
the wall.  So I just stayed by the wall.
J. WILSON 15
          When everything stopped, the noise
stopped and everything, I was screaming Scott's
name.  He was at arm's length away from me.  I
could touch him.  I didn't see him.  I'm calling
him.  It got black again, and it cleared up
pretty good after the first collapse.  I guess
because it wasn't that big an area.  It cleared
up pretty good.  We could see fine. When I got
outside later, it was a mess out there like with
the dust.
          So now we heard the second rumbling.
Now we ran again.  I'm calling for Scott.  He's
right next to me.  Now I'm calling Mike.  He's
not answering me.  Ray Brown is not answering me.
The other guy, I didn't even get his name.  At
this point I'm calling him.  Nobody is answering.
I'm like, oh, man.  Bob is not answering.
          So finally now I see a light.  I'm
screaming.  The guy's saying, "Keep talking."  It
turned out to be a guy, Richie, from 113.  He
came to my voice with his light.  Mike said
something.  Now he's coming.  So now they're
coming out.  But I still haven't heard from Ray
Brown.
J. WILSON 16
          I'm like, oh, man, Bob's not calling.
I'm thinking they must be buried now, both of
them.  I didn't see Ray.  So we're like let's try
to make our way out of here and see what the hell
happened, because I still hadn't in my wildest
dreams thought that two buildings, both of them,
came down.
          So we started to work towards the way
we saw the light.  It turned out I guess it was
around Liberty Street.  It was right near that
south walkway we wound up coming out.
          Just as we're getting ready -- because
we had to climb up -- I would say the rubble
probably was like two stories high just to get up
to go out, out of the lobby area.
          I turned around and I see a figure
coming at me.  I come back down.  It's Ray Brown.
He's like staggering out.  I grabbed him.  He was
a bloody mess.  I said, "Are you all right, Ray?"
He's said, "No, I'm not."  So we grabbed him.  We
helped him.
          Now we start climbing up out of the
place.  Nobody around when we came up and looked
out.  It was just like a ghost town.  It was just
J. WILSON 17
like burning vehicles, the snow scene type of
thing, cars buried, fires, cars on fire, puddles
everywhere.  I don't know what that was from.  A
lot of puddles, which I was afraid to step in,
not thinking I'm going down a level.  Trying to
avoid that and trying to carry him.
          The first person I remember seeing was
a photographer, a guy with a big camera around
his neck.  I didn't pay him any mind.  I saw a
fireman too.  I saw Jimmy Marketti, who is a
chief now.  He's coming towards the building with
a pair of shorts and a T-shirt.  He just came in
on his motorcycle, he said.
          So he starts helping us carry Ray.  I'm
tell him that Bobby Nagel, we lost him in the
building.  I'm having a very hard time carrying
this guy too, because I'm a little tired, a
little beat up.
          So a couple other fire trucks, Scott
got an EMS chair out of a broken down van.  We
put Ray Brown in the chair, tried to carry him in
that.  That was pretty difficult too, just up and
down whatever, I beams, trying to avoid this
water.  For whatever reason, I'm thinking I'm
J. WILSON 18
going to sink.
          Gathered up another fireman, start
seeing people.  He had oxygen.  He threw oxygen
on Ray.  So I kind of pass him off to some other
guys.  I can't even carry this guy anymore.  At
that point Jimmy Marketti, myself and Scott went
back and tried to get back into the building,
basically to look for Bob.
          So we went back in and were looking
around for Bob.  Actually when we first tried to
go back in, I don't think we made it back in,
because now a fire had started right by the area
we came out of.  There was a fire there.  So we
had to go around another way to get back in.
          The area we got back into in the lobby
area, believe it or not there was a pretty good
size area that was unbelievable.  There was still
bottled water there that didn't break, the very
southwest, I guess, of the hotel that we had
wound up amazingly getting to.
          So we climbed back in.  Now we're going
back over this pile of just rubble.  That's
exactly what it was, just piles of like ceilings
that came down.  It was a mess, trying to go up
J. WILSON 19
and down and around, calling him, no answer.
          Now other people show up.  I remember
there was a guy from Rescue 1, I think I saw.  I
saw 252 Engine.  It might have been an officer
from 252 and a fireman.  Now other guys just
start showing up.  Now there's a good ten people.
I don't know where they're coming from, but maybe
they heard us originally.  I don't know.
          They're in there.  They're trying to go
through holes.  Everybody is just trying to get
in.  We're not getting anything done there.  It
was bad news.  Bob is not answering the radio.
His radio was kind of shitty to begin with, I
think, because he was having a hard time -- even
before the second collapse his radio was I think
dying or maybe it was just all the crap in the
air.
          So we went back in.  I would say
basically futile attempts it turned out to be,
unfortunately, to get back towards the area where
we knew Bob was.  The building actually collapsed
right up to the pillar that had the rope on it.
You could still see the rope.  We knew we were
just north of that.
J. WILSON 20
          How far could we have run after the
second building came down?  We were talking
amongst ourselves, it couldn't have been more
than 10 or 20 feet that we got before the
building knocked us down again.
          Then a chief showed up out of -- like I
said, I don't know where these people came from.
I'm not paying attention.  Now there's a chief
there, and he's asking us what's going on.  I
told him my lieutenant's in there, he's still
buried, we have to try to find him.
          He said, "Have you talked to him?"  I
said, "Not since the second collapse.  I've had
no communication."  I said no communication with
him.  We have no -- in other words, no
communication -- we don't know where he is, blah,
blah, blah.  He's telling everyone we've got to
get out now, get out of the building.  So he
starts herding everybody out of there.
          So we got out.  He chased everybody
out.  We got out.  I went back again.  Numerous
times that day we went back, kept going back in.
I don't know why, piece of mind, I don't know,
which you're not going to get by doing that.
J. WILSON 21
Just to try to think I'm going to be able to find
my lieutenant and the chiefs, which we never did.
We still haven't to this day.
          Basically after we got out of there
that time, finally we got out of there.  One guy,
Mike, with me was limping badly.  He said, "Oh,
I'm all right."  It turned outs his leg was
pretty messed up.  He was limping badly.
          We walked towards the river, looking
for an ambulance, an EMS or anything, trying to
drink water, walked around, found him an
ambulance.  Actually we didn't find him an
ambulance.  We walked around in almost like a
circle.  We went to the river, headed back
around, got our eyes washed out along the way
somewhere, got a drink along the way, and came
right back to where we started.
          I think I went back in again.  Mike at
this point was hurting pretty bad, and I was
starting to go find an ambulance to get him of
there, which he didn't want to leave.
          Basically that's what we did for the
rest of the day.  We just kind of walked around.
After we got out of there, we took care of Mike.
J. WILSON 22
He got in an ambulance.  Actually he went with
someone else.  He wound up getting on a boat.
          Everybody from here started showing up.
I ran into the guys from my company; I don't know
what time it was.  They were under the impression
the whole company was missing.  I said, "No,
Bob's missing."
          Then we tried to get back in again.
Basically all day I must have spent basically
going in and out of there, to where Bob was.  I
really had no contact with other firemen that I
remember in the lobby of the Marriott.  Like I
said, once you talk to all the guys from here, a
few of them did, at least two or three of them I
know.
          Like I said, we got split up.  So they
saw the other companies and they got sent to
wherever, and they were waiting for us.
Otherwise we would have been in probably the same
place they went.  I don't know if they went up in
the hotel or to the south tower.  Like I said,
you might hear that from some of the other guys.
     Q.   Is that it, John?
     A.   That's about it.
J. WILSON 23
Q.   Thank you, John, for all your help.
     CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time now is 7:30
p.m., and this concludes the interview.
File No. 9110377
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         FIREFIGHTER JOHN WEBER
   Interview Date:  December 26, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
J. WEBER 2
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today is December 20th,
     2001.  The time is 7:50 p.m.  I am Battalion
     Chief Dennis Kenahan of the New York City
     Fire Department, Safety Battalion.  I'm
     conducting an interview with John Weber,
     firefighter first from Engine 58, in the
     quarters of Engine 58.
     Q.   John, tell us the events of September
11th as you recall them.
     A.   We got the call on the second fifth to
go down after the second tower was struck.  We
took some extra masks and any extra cylinders we
had.  We tied up some rope rigs to hold double
bottles on, put them over your shoulder to carry.
We figured we're going to need the bottles on the
upper floors of this thing.
          After we thought we were equipped well
enough, we took off for the box.  We went up, all
the way downtown to West Street, where we parked
the rig, and started getting ready.  We took our
bottles off.  I had control that day, so I had
the radio, I had two bottles, I had the roof
rope.  I had something else; I don't remember
what.  We were taking Halligans, axes.
J. WEBER 3
          We were taking every single thing out
of the rig, basically, just to be well-prepared
when we're up there.  We didn't know exactly what
we were going to do.
          We started heading down towards the
second tower.  Somehow our boss was told that we
had to report to the second tower.  As we were
following along, we wanted to make sure that we
all stayed together.
     Q.   When you say the second tower, you mean
the south tower?
     A.   The south tower, I'm sorry.  Yeah, the
second tower got hit, the south tower.  We were
supposed to head in that vicinity.  Where
exactly, I wasn't sure exactly where at the time
we were supposed to go.
          We started heading there.  As we got
closer to the buildings, he just kept on saying,
"Stay close together.  I want everybody together.
I don't want to have to be looking for people."
Everybody understood.
          As we were going, the jumpers were
coming down, as we got real close to both
buildings.  Jumpers were just coming down right
J. WEBER 4
near us, so we kept veering out further away from
the building, kind of like around about, going
around the back way until we can get a clearing.
          As we were going around towards
Liberty, the south tower around Liberty, that's
when we saw I believe it was 216, the guy that
got hit from the jumper.  We saw his men with him
or a group of men with him, firefighters, pulling
him to the side.
          They put over an urgent, I believe it
was.  He was badly hurt.  We waited there with
the company there with him until EMS arrived.
That was the boss, Lieutenant Nagel, myself, John
Wilson, Scott Paskewitz.
          We kind of did split apart when all the
jumpers started going.  Some guys went to where
they thought they could get shelter, and we of
went around the other way.  We stayed with him
until EMS came.  Then we made our way back in
towards the south tower.  That's when we saw
Chief Sheffield and I guess the other battalion
chiefs that were working that day from the 12th
Battalion.  We saw them walking.
          We were yelling for them to come on the
J. WEBER 5
other side of the parking lot, because that's
where the firefighter got struck by the jumper,
that they were too close to the building, that
something could happen to them.
          We got their attention.  They moved
away.  Somehow we all ended up going into the
south tower.  We looked up, we found a clearing.
We literally ran across Liberty Street, across
the parking lot, into the hotel there, the --
Q. Marriott?
     A.   The Vista, I think it's called,
technically the Vista Hotel, the Marriott Hotel.
We ran into that, because we were told there was
a way to get through from the Vista into the
south tower, which is where we had to go meet the
chiefs and find out where we're going to operate.
          We met in the lobby.  We met the other
two members that we split off from in the lobby.
We were there maybe a minute or so.  The boss
said wait here.  Lieutenant Nagel said to wait
where we were in the center and relax, because we
walked all the way from West Street.  By the time
we all the way around, it was a nice walk with
all the stuff on, the extra gear.  He said to
J. WEBER 6
take a blow, relax until we found out where we're
operating, and I'll get back to you.  Just stay
here.
          He went around to find the chiefs
around the elevator shaft.  By the elevator
shafts is the last known place I know he was.  We
weren't in the building more than a minute when
he told us to cool down, take our coats off, we
took our coats off.  We were hanging out,
waiting.
          I was just getting my bearings to see
exactly where I was, and you just heard a
banging, "bang, bang, bang."  People yelled that
it was coming through the window.  The way the
noise was going to me or to a lot of us, we
thought it was another plane coming.  It was two;
why not three or four.  It sounded to us like it
was a plane coming through the windows.
          Most of us that were in that little
group there ran towards the entrance where we
came in.  As I'm facing out towards West Street,
it was kind of like left.  We ran left.
          As we go, the ceiling started hitting
us, falling down.  We all just dove into a
J. WEBER 7
corner.  There must have been 20 or 30 guys
there.  We just huddled, a big huddle, literally
on top of each other, just like covering each
other, right near it seemed like a desk or a bar,
like the check-in desk or a bar top, something
like that.  We waited there until everything kind
of calmed down for a while.  It was all blacked
out.
          We got up and I remember the hotel
workers, I guess, the maintenance man or security
guy or whatever, or the manager of the hotel,
asking one of the other members there of his
crew, "What's the best way out?," because the
front door that we were at that we came in was
blocked.  The rolldown gates came and all the
debris were in front of the door.  So he looked
for another stairwell out.  That was covered too.
We tried to gather together as many people as we
can.  Everybody started working on that one gate
again that we came in.  We were able to lift it
up enough and started shoveling guys out the door
to get out of there.
          I got out on the first -- right after
the first collapse myself.  I was with Peter
J. WEBER 8
Giammarino.  Shortly after that we found Andy
Ansbro, like right afterwards, sitting in
basically the street, looking up at what was
going on.  We walked away from it a bit to see
what was going on.  Other guys were coming out
the door, the hole that we had made.
          A little while after that I heard my
lieutenant doing a roll call, finding out where
everybody is, calling, "58 control."  I
responded.  "Who do you have with you?"  I told
him I had two other members with me.  I told him
their names.  He said, "All right."  That was
about it.  We all thought that they were out the
other way; it was just a regular roll call.
          We waited a little while.  Other guys
were coming out.  Everybody was kind of heading
in the same direction.  We were right next to the
south bridge, that pedestrian foot bridge.  So we
were right near there.
          Some of the guys had concerns over
whether we should be there.  It was mostly up.
It was 99 percent up still.  People had concerns
that maybe it's not the best place to be since
everything was falling down still.  They wanted
J. WEBER 9
to move out a little bit more.
          We followed the crowd basically out
towards -- there's another foot bridge -- I don't
know what the name of it is -- that runs north
and south.  The north bridge and south bridge
both run east to west, but there was another foot
bridge that runs north and south between two
buildings on the way to the marina.  I don't know
what street that is.  I guess it's a little part
of Liberty Street, maybe.
          We were there.  We started heading
there.  We started helping people onto boats.
Giammarino, myself and Ansbro started helping
people onto boats.  Everybody there.  Police was
there, EMS was there, all different -- some
people that were in the buildings, some people
that were out in the street.  We were just
pulling them out of the way, out of what we
called the fall zone, I guess.
          We were working on that, and a little
while later, 15 minutes, 20 minutes later, is
when the second tower started going.
     Q.   You were still by the marina?
     A.   About near the marina.  Between that
J. WEBER 10
foot bridge that ran north and south, as people
were coming up, we were bringing them back.
          Then 15, 20 minutes, a half hour -- I
don't even know how long it was -- the north
tower started coming down.  We were actually able
to see that starting to come down.  Then it was
just a plume of dust.  You couldn't see anything
then.  You couldn't see anything two feet in
front of you.
          It was really dusty after the first
one, but it started to clear out.  By the marina
you were all right.  But after the second one
came, everything was another dust ball for a
while.  It might have taken me five or ten
minutes to get to the marina and five or ten
minutes later is when the second one came down.
          Then after that one we heard -- between
the first one and second one coming down, I heard
numerous maydays.  Besides communicating with our
boss, because everything sounded fine with them,
trying not to clutter up the air because there
were so many other maydays going on, we just
monitored for a while.
          There was one individual from a truck
J. WEBER 11
company -- I don't even remember what truck it
was anymore.  He was saying several times that he
was just trapped, he was all right, he didn't
know where he was, he was knocked out.  Somebody
kept on asking, "What building were you in?
Where are you now?"
          He wasn't sure at all.  He said he got
knocked out, he just regained consciousness, and
he didn't remember where he was at all.  He was
okay, for the most part, just trapped.  He
couldn't get out.  I heard that all the way up
until the second collapsed.  Then after that, I
didn't hear his mayday anymore.
          After that, after the second collapse,
we saw Mike Fitzpatrick, another one of our
members, and John Wilson coming towards us up
towards the marina wall.  Basically we went in
with eight guys.  I knew we didn't have a
lieutenant anymore, and we were missing one other
guy, Dave McGovern.  We weren't quite sure where
he was.
          We regrouped and we had to start
running lines from the marine unit.  They pulled
up.  They wanted guys to start stretching lines
J. WEBER 12
up.  It wasn't Liberty Street but one of the
other side streets from where they were berthed.
We started running three inch up or whatever.  We
started hauling that up.  That's when we saw Dave
McGovern come in from around the other way.
          We stood there for a while and helped
stretch the line a little bit.  Then we heard the
story from Mike Fitzpatrick and John Wilson and
Scott Paskewitz that Lieutenant Nagel was trapped
after the first collapse, that they were speaking
to him, that they had tied a search rope and gave
it to him.
          I think they said they held his hand at
the time, that they were at least somehow able to
physically touch him.  I think they held his hand
or just let him know where he was, gave him
whatever he might have needed at that time and
were working on getting him out when they started
hearing the second collapse occur, or what ended
up to be the second collapse.  They didn't know
what it was.
          After we all regrouped and they told us
the story and we were loading hose off the marine
unit, we decided that we were going to try to get
J. WEBER 13
back in that area and see if there's any way of
helping him, if he's still there.  We weren't
getting a response off the radio anymore.  But
maybe there was a shot that they could get back
in the same area.
          That's what we did.  We went right back
to the Vista Hotel, all of us together, going up
the heap, down into it.  There were other guys
there.  I think one of the rescue companies were
there.  They were looking all through every nook
and cranny.  They found the search rope.  They
followed it into the debris.  They said that they
couldn't see him -- they couldn't find anything
more.  They were calling, but there was no
response.
          As we were in there looking, trying to
find ways of getting into the holes from outside,
they called us out.  They told anybody inside --
they saw us going in.  Somebody started calling
us out, that there was another collapse potential
for that half of the building.  The Vista
collapsed on the left side, but the right side
was still pretty much -- two- or three-quarters
of it was still together.
J. WEBER 14
          They called us out.  We went out.  We
stayed for a little while, right on the heap,
clearing stuff, looking for people.  We went back
in a second time after they had other guys in
there.  We went in a second time, looked around a
little bit more.  They called us out a little
while after that.  We came out.  That was the
last time I was in the building.
          Then we started working our way around
to where all the crushed rigs were, closer to the
north tower, I guess where all the chiefs were,
basically.
     Q.   The command post?
     A.   Where the command post was, right.  The
command post was I think closer to the north
tower, in between but closer to the north tower
where the parking garage was or something, right
behind it, I remember, in one of the buildings,
closer to the north bridge.
          So we started heading over towards that
heap, looking under -- every single man that was
there had saws going, Halligans going, axes
going, trying to pry the metal back.  Once we
found a rig, knocking on it to see if there was
J. WEBER 15
any response.
          Then there was a large building, brick
building, that was on fire, potential for
collapse, that we started stretching lines for
that, then using a hand line, alternating on and
off.  We were putting water on that.  As you
alternated off, you started searching and digging
again.
          That's basically what we did the whole
day.  I think we were there up until near 12:00
that night.  We were there until at least around
12, maybe a little earlier but around 12.
     Q.   That's it, John?
     A.   Yeah, that's it.
     Q.   Thanks a lot, John, for your help.
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time now is 8:05,
     and this concludes the interview.
File No. 9110378
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
     LIEUTENANT JOSEPH PATRICIELLO
   Interview Date: December 20, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
                 J. PATRICIELLO                 2
          CHIEF KENAHAN: The date is December
     20th, 2001.  The time is 12:48.  This is
     Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan of the Safety
     Battalion of the Fire Department of the City
     of New York.  I'm conducting an interview
     with Lieutenant Joseph Patriciello, working
     in Engine 44 that day, assigned to Division
     3, Battalion 9, covering.
     Q.   All right, Joe, just tell us in your
own words what happened that day.
     A.   I was in quarters when the first plane
struck.  We were watching it.  Shortly after the
second building was struck, we received the alarm
to respond immediately on the fifth alarm.
          We weren't delayed for too long, but I
waited until a riding list was prepared by my
officer who I relieved.  When that was done, we
proceeded south to the alarm site.  We took I
believe it was 11th Avenue, one street that was
closed off to allow us to respond.  We proceeded
south after coming over from approximately Second
Avenue on the east side.  We proceeded south.
          We pulled in.  I would say it was just
at about Vesey and West Street we parked the rig.
                 J. PATRICIELLO                 3
We grabbed extra cylinders, and we proceeded to
the command post.  When we checked in at the
command post, we were ordered to just stand fast
pending an assignment.
          While we were there, the command post
was obviously being overwhelmed by all kinds of
information and activity.  At one point a
captain, who I do not know from what company --
he was obviously assisting the people at the
command board -- turned to me and requested that
I proceed south to Liberty Street, in that area,
to remove any apparatus or police vehicles that
may be in the way.
          I told my men to leave their cylinders,
since we would be coming back shortly.  They all
accompanied me together as a unit.  We proceeded
to walk south to Liberty.  At that point it was
clear to me that there wasn't much that had to be
done.  We did request one police vehicle just to
move.  We didn't have to do it ourselves.
          At that time there were maybe two or
three car fires going in the vicinity of the
pedestrian bridge.  I ordered my men to grab some
extinguishers, purple K's, and my men proceeded
                 J. PATRICIELLO                 4
to go to apparatus that were nearby.
     Q.   John, one second.  The pedestrian
bridge, that was the south pedestrian bridge?
     A.   Yes.
          As my men went to obtain some
extinguishers, I happened to be looking up and
saw the explosion or the building fail with the
ensuing fireball and cloud.  It didn't appear to
me at that moment the building was coming down.
But when the noise level began to pick up, it was
obvious that something wrong was going on.  We
all proceeded to run southwesterly towards
Liberty and West.
          At that point there was debris coming
down.  Myself and my chauffeur ended up diving
under the same car, and we were surrounded in a
total cloud of darkness and dust, a heavy
dusting, almost like a sandblasting effect, while
we were waiting under the car.
          It was quite a while.  I can't say the
exact time.  It was very quiet.  No more radio
transmissions.  We weren't sure if we were
covered.  We were under debris.  We didn't know
exactly what was the conditions that we were in.
                 J. PATRICIELLO                 5
But I could hear my chauffeur next to me.  We
were talking.  I couldn't see him.
          Maybe 10, 15 minutes when the cloud
began to lift.  I was missing three members.  I
decided to locate my members.  I found two
immediately.  Both had injuries.  One had needed
stitches.  Another one, he was complaining of a
leg injury.  It turned out he had a broken leg.
          The last member -- I had my chauffeur
with me.  The last member I couldn't locate.
However, it was maybe a half hour, three-quarters
of an hour later I made contact with somebody who
visually saw him being transported across the
river to Jersey for medical attention.  He
received a collapsed lung and a broken shoulder.
          But once all my members were accounted
for and it was just me and my chauffeur
remaining, since all three injured members were
being tended to or transported away to receive
medical attention, we continued to remain on the
scene, assist with recovery.  But more of our
efforts were given to establishing water lines
and getting some water to the area via the fire
boats.
                 J. PATRICIELLO                 6
          That's about it.  We stayed there until
about 9, 10:00.  Myself, I had some -- well, I
had eye abrasions that were looked at at the Ear,
Eye and Throat Hospital.  That's it.  That's
about it.
     Q.   Okay, Joe.  Thank you for all your
help.
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  This concludes the
     interview which is taking place at the
     division of training.  The time now is
     12:54.

FILI 9110379
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW BATTALION CHIEF EDWARD HENRY
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 19 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELIZABETH SANTAMARIA

HENRY
MR LAKIOTES IS 19
2001 THE TIME IS APPROXIMATELY 1215 HOURS MY NAME IS CHIEF ARTHUR LAKIOTES NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT SAFETY COMMAND AM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH BATTALION CHIEF EDWARD HENRY 40 BATTALION REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001
IF YOU WOULD TAKE ME FROM THE TIME OF YOUR
RESPONSE TO RIGHT THROUGH THE WHOLE DAYS EVENTS IF YOU CAN
WE RESPONDED FROM THE 40 BATTALION QUARTERS WE WERE TOLD TO GO TO THE BATTERY TUNNEL AND NOT TO GO INTO MANHATTAN STAY IN BROOKLYN
THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL INSTRUCTION ON THE WAY HEADING TOWARDS THE BATTERY TUNNEL AND IN THE REAR WE HAD REGULAR AM RADIO THAT WE HAD IN THE CAR THAT THE SECOND BUILDING WAS HIT THE FIRST
BUILDING WAS ALREADY HIT THE SECOND BUILDING WAS NOW HIT BY THE TERRORIST PLANE
AT THAT POINT ON THE DEPARTMENT RADIO WE WERE INSTRUCTED NOT TO STOP IN BROOKLYN BUT TO CONTINUE THROUGH THE BATTERY TUNNEL AND TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AREA AS WE ENTERED THE BATTERY TUNNEL THERE WAS HEAVY TRAFFIC AND WE WERE HELD UP FOR WHILE

HENRY
WAS RIGHT BEHIND TH 48 BATTA1I
WHEN WE LEFT THE TUNNEL PEOPLE FINALLY MOVED THE TRAFFIC AND WE CONTINUED INTO MANHATTAN AND TURNED UP WEST STREET WE PARKED THE CAR ON WEST STREET SOUTH OF THE TOWERS BOTH TOWERS WERE BURNING AS WE GOT OUT OF THE CAR THERE WERE BODY PARTS IN THE STREET ON WEST STREET AT THIS EARLY PART SO THE ONLY THING COULD FIGURE WAS THAT THESE PEOPLE WERE EITHER PEOPLE IN THE PLANE OR PEOPLE WHO WERE DRIVEN OUT OF THE BUILDING THERE WERE NO JUMPERS AT THIS TIME
REPORTED UP TO THE COMMAND POST WHICH WAS ON THE WEST SIDE OF WEST STREET AND STAYED THERE FOR
LITTLE WHILE EVENTUALLY
WHO DID YOU SEE THERE DO YOU REMEMBER
ANYBODY YOU SAW THERE
CHIEF GANCI SPOKE TO CHIEF GANCI HE
SAID STAND FAST WITH THAT PEOPLE STARTED JUMPING OUT THE WINDOWS FROM ABOVE THE FIRE SPLATTERING ON THE SIDEWALK IT WAS SCENE LIKE HAD NEVER SEEN BEFORE
WATCHED SEVEN OR EIGHT PEOPLE TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH DIDNT FEEL LIKE WATCHING IT ANYMORE SO
WENT TO CHIEF GANCI AND SAID DO YOU HAVE

HENRY
SAID INT TH MARRIOTT HOTEL AND MAKE SURE THE UNITS ARE ON
ANYTHING
CHANNEL AND CHANNEL SAFETY CHIEF WAS WITH HIM TURI THINK HE HANDED
BELIEVE HE SAID THE
HANDING ME PAPER CHIEF ME PAPER WITH THE TWO
FREQUENCIES ON IT
WE HAD TO WALK SOUTH ON WEST STREET TO AVOID
BEING HIT BY PEOPLE JUMPING OUT OF THE WINDOW MY AIDE AND WALKED SOUTH ON WEST STREET WE GOT NEAR
WALK OVER BRIDGE WE RAN ACROSS THE STREET AND WE ENTERED THE VISTAMARRIOTT HOTEL FROM THE SIDE OF
THE BUILDING TO AVOID THE FRONT WHERE THE PEOPLE
WERE COMING DOWN WE ENTERED THE VISTA HOTEL
THROUGH THE BAR AND INTO THE CENTER PORTION OF THE HOTEL GAVE THE REPORT TO CHIEF GALVIN HE WAS
IN THE COMMAND POST INSIDE OF THE VISTA HOTEL
HE TOLD ME HE WANTED ME TO GO TO THE 70TH FLOOR
OF BUILDING OF BUILDING BELIEVE AND CHECK ON CERTAIN COMPANIES DONT REMEMBER THE COMPANY
BUT ONE COMPANY REMEMBER WAS LADDER 122 THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE UP THERE FOUND OUT LATER
THAT THEY HAD NOT LEFT THE LOBBY AREA AT THAT TIME FOUND THIS OUT LATER ON
SO ASKED HIM HOW TO GET TO TOWER AND HE

DIR
TURNED FOR MINUTE TO TALK TO MY AIDE TO TELL
MY
HENRY
ILZFT TH LIFT SIDE TH VISTA
HIM WHERE YOURE GOING AND EVERYTHING AND WITH THAT THE VISTA HOTEL COLLAPSED IT COLLAPSED ON MY LEFT SIDE AND ON MY RIGHT SIDE IN THE MIDDLE WHERE ME AND MY AIDE JOHN PICARELLO WERE IT DID NOT COLLAPSE IT WENT COMPLETELY BLACK YOU COULDNT SEE YOUR HAND IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE WAS ACTUALLY RIGHT NEXT TO THE COLLAPSE IT TORE MY HELMET OFF MY HEAD AND IT THROUGH THE LIGHT OUT OF MY HAND STILL
HAD MY MASK HAD NO LIGHT COULDNT SEE
ANYTHING
FORTUNATELY COUPLE OF THE WORKERS THAT WERE
WITH US HAD SMALL FLASHLIGHTS WHICH TOOK ONE OF THE FLASHLIGHTS TRIED TO CALM EVERYBODY DOWN AND
TOLD THEM WE HAD TO FIND WAY OUT CHIEF BRIAN
FOUND DOOR BEHIND THE MAIN DESK OF THE HOTEL THE DOOR LED TO STAIRWAY GOING DOWN
QUITE LONG STAIRWAY GOING DOWN TO THE THOUGHT IT WAS THE BASEMENT OF THE VISTA HOTEL
HE RAN DOWN AND STAYED NEAR THE RAN TO THE BOTTOM OF THE STAIRS AND STAYED NEAR THE BOTTOM OF THE STAIRS INSTRUCTED ONE OF THE WORKERS FROM
THE BUILDING WHO HAD LIGHT TO STAY AT THE TOP OF
OFLAHERTY

HENRY
TH STAIRS TH WH WITH US
WENT TO THE BOTTOM OF THE STAIRS OUT TO THE CHIEF ASKING HIM IF EVENTUALLY HE CALLED BACK TO ME
VISTA HOTEL AND THEY ALL CAME DOWN THE STAIRS
WOULD SAY IT WAS SOME FIREMEN MOSTLY WORKERS FROM
THE VISTA HOTEL OF THE ONES WHO KNOW WERE THERE FOR SURE WAS BRIAN OFLAHERTY AND WAS TOLD THAT CHIEF STACK WAS IN THE BACK BUT DID NOT SEE
HIM BECAUSE IT WAS SO DARK WAS TOLD HE WAS THERE ANYWAY WE WENT DOWN THE STAIRS AND WENT THROUGH CORRIDOR WHICH WAS UNDER WHICH UNDERSTAND NOW WAS UNDER BUILDING OF THE TRADE CENTER
WHEN GOT TO THE END OF IT WE OPENED THE DOOR AND WE GOT OUT THERE WAS LITTLE AREA WAY
LITTLE FOOT HIGH WALL AROUND THIS THING MAYBE 10 BY 10 WITH FOOT WALL CHIEF OFLAHERTY TOLD ME HE COULD NOT CLIMB OVER THE WALL AND SAID ILL CLIMB OVER THE WALL AND ILL GO LOOK FOR ANOTHER EXIT WHICH WE KNEW THERE WAS ONE LITTLE BIT TO THE RIGHT
STAYED UPSTAIRS
AND KEPT CALLING HE FOUND DOOR
AND SAID HE FOUND
TO THE MEMBERS WHO WERE ON THE FIRST FLOOR OF THE
DOOR RELAYED THE MESSAGE UP

TRADE CENTER CORRECTION
DID NOT KNOW THAT WORLD TRADE
TRADE CENTER
CENTER NUMBER HAD THE ONLY THING THAT
HENRY
TH
THAT EXIT
WAS LOT OF RUBBLE OUTSIDE CLIMBED OVER THE WALL WENT AROUND TO THE EXIT AND REMOVED THE
RUBBLE PULLED THE DOOR OPEN CALLED INSIDE FOR ALL THE MEN WHO KNEW WERE WAITING IN THERE AND
GOT NO ANSWER SO IT WAS MY CONCLUSION THAT THEY MUST HAVE CLIMBED OVER WALL SOMEWHERE THEY MUST HAVE DECIDED NOT TO WAIT FOR ME AND THEY CLIMBED
OVER WALL AND JUST GOT OUT THE SAME WAY GOT OUT
AT THIS POINT STARTED WALKING WAY FROM THE TOWER TOWER NUMBER STARTED WALKING AWAY FROM IT AND WAS LOOKING UP AT IT WHEN IT WAS BURNING READILY AT THIS POINT DID NOT KNOW THAT TRADE CENTER COLLAPSED WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT
COLLAPSED ALREADY THOUGHT
COLLAPSED WAS THE VISTA HOTEL THAT WAS IN IF
HAD KNOWN CERTAINLY WOULD THERE LOOKING AT TOWER AND
NOT HAVE BEEN STANDING
WATCHING IT BURN
SO STUFF WAS COMING DOWN EQUIPMENT WAS COMING
DOWN FALLING OUT OF THE BUILDING AND WAS AFRAID WAS GOING TO GET HIT WITH SOME OF IT SO
PROCEEDED TO AN AREA WHERE THERE WAS LIKE PORTICO

THAT GOT OUT THE AWAY FROM BUILDING
ONLY DIFFERENCE WAS WALKED ASSUMED WAS WALKING
WAS WALKING SOUTH DIDNT END UP THERE
INDICATING
ASSUME MIGHT NOT BE WRONG ENDED UP OVER HERE
HENRY
PART TH TRADE
PART TH
IT WAS SUBSTANTIAL
FOUR SMALL POSTS AS
THAT SO WOULD NOT BE HIT BY ANYTHING THE ONLY TWO PEOPLE WHO WERE UNDER THAT WAS MYSELF AND
FELLOW WHO LEARNED LATER WAS DISPATCHER FROM THE JERSEY CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT HE WAS TAKING
PICTURES CALLED MY AIDE ON MY RADIO AND HE WAS THE FIRST PERSON GOT THROUGH TO THE WHOLE DAY
HAD LOT OF RADIO TROUBLE WHEN GOT THROUGH TO HIM ASKED HIM IF HE WAS OUT AND IF THE OTHER
PEOPLE WHO WERE WITH US WERE OUT HE SAID YES EVERYBODY WAS OUT THEY ALL GOT OUT THE SAME WAY
PORTICO IT WAS HELD UP WITH REMEMBER AND GOT UNDER
ASSUME WAS WALKING SOUTHEAST AWAY FROM THE TRADE CENTER COULD BE WRONG ON THAT BUT WAS
WALKING AWAY FROM TOWER NUMBER WITH THAT HEARD THIS NOISE LIKE FREIGHT TRAIN COMING THE FELLOW
WHO WAS TAKING THE PICTURES STARTED TO RUN AND STARTED TO RUN WITHIN ONE SECOND THIS WHOLE

HENRY
FLOOR MY FACE WAS INCHES OFF THE FLOOR AS ROCKS
AND RUBBLE AND EVERYTHING WERE ROLLING PAST ME THE ONLY THING THAT KEPT ME ALIVE WAS WHEN THIS CAME
DOWN WHEN THIS THING CAME DOWN ON TOP OF ME
APPARENTLY IT HIT SOMETHING AND IT STOPPED ABOUT FEET ABOVE ME IT WASNT THAT IT WAS ANOTHER
THING IT WAS OVER HERE SOMEWHERE INDICATING
SO WHAT HAPPENED WAS LAID THERE PULLED THE HELMET OVER MY HEAD WAITED FOR ALL THIS RUBBLE TO
PASS BY ALL THESE ROCKS AND EVERYTHING WERE ROLLING SHORTLY THEREAFTER THEY STOPPED AND THIS BIG CLOUD OF DUST WHERE YOU COULDNT SEE ANYTHING
IT WAS LIKE FOG PERMEATED THE AREA DECIDED BETTER TRY TO CRAWL OUT OF THERE MY LEGS WERE PINNED LITTLE BIT NOT TOO BAD WAS ABLE TO GET THEM LOOSE AND CRAWLED TOWARDS WHERE FELT COLD AIR ON THE SIDE OF MY FACE AND CRAWLED AND CRAWLED AND CRAWLED AND FINALLY GOT OUT INTO THE OPEN AIR AND SAW EITHER LADDER ENGINE OR ENGINE
IM NOT SURE IT WAS AN ONE DIGIT NUMBER IT WAS EITHER OR THE ENGINE WAS RUNNING AND THE
LIGHTS WERE FLASHING BUT THE AMOUNT OF DEBRIS ON THE SIDE OF IT WAS 30 TO 40 FEET HIGH COULD NOT

10
MY NEXT THOUGHT WAS WELL MAYBE SHOULD CRAWL UNDER THE RIG TO PROTECT ME FROM ANYTHING ELSE THAT
WAS FALLING THE ENGINE WAS RUNNING AND THOUGHT THAT IF CRAWLED UNDER THE RIG MIGHT DIE FROM
CARBON MONOXIDE POISONING SO AT THAT POINT CONTINUED SAID JUST BETTER CONTINUE CRAWLING
AWAY KEPT CRAWLING AWAY CRAWLING AWAY AND THEN FINALLY GOT TO THE OUTSIDE GOT TO THE FRESH
INT
INTO THE RIG AND CALL ON THE DEPARTMENT RADIO
AIR
COULD SEE THE CLEAR BLUE SKY
JUST BEFORE THAT HAD SOMETHING HAD FALLEN
HENRY INT TH RIG WHICH WAS MY
ACROSS MY BACK IT GAVE ME TERRIFIC WELT ACROSS
MY BACK AND IT WAS VERY PAINFUL COULD HARDLY CRAWL BUT HAD TO CRAWL TO GET AWAY FROM IT
CRAWLED LITTLE MORE AND WAS OUT INTO SAW THE CLEAR BLUE SKY THE FIRST THING SAW IN THE
CLEAR BLUE SKY WAS THREE FIGHTER PLANES COMING OVER AND SAID GEEZ WHAT HAPPENED ARE WE AT WAR
WHAT IS IT
CRAWLED LITTLE MORE AND FOUND THE GUY WHO
WAS THE DISPATCHER FROM JERSEY CITY HE WAS LAYING ON THE FLOOR ON HIS BACK TELLING ME HE THINKS HE
WAS HAVING HEART ATTACK WAS IN NO POSITION TO

11 HIM HARDLY WALK HIM CLIAR
ALL THE DUST AND DEBRIS OUT OF HIS MOUTH AND LAY THERE QUIETLY AND TRY TO BREATHE SOME FRESH AIR AND THAT HE WOULD BE ALL RIGHT SO HE DID THAT AND WE BOTH LAID THERE TOLD HIM THAT SOMEBODY WOULD COME TO GET US SHORTLY WE LAID THERE FOR SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF TIME BECAUSE APPARENTLY EVERYBODY ON WEST STREET WAS EITHER DEAD OR
HENRY
WE LAID THERE WOULD ESTIMATE AT LEAST 15 MINUTES AND NOBODY CAME
FINALLY SAW FIREMAN AND WAVED TO HIM
THE FIREMAN CAME AND TOLD HIM WE NEEDED TWO BACK BOARDS HE SAID ILL BE RIGHT BACK HE LEFT AND HE DIDNT COME BACK FOR ANOTHER 15 MINUTES GUESS THERE WAS SO MUCH CONFUSION AND SO FEW PEOPLE AROUND THAT HE HAD LOT OF TROUBLE GETTING THE BACK BOARD ANYWAY FINALLY HE CAME BACK TO MAKE LONG STORY SHORT THEY PUT US ON THE BACK BOARDS AND THEY WALKED THEY WALKED THEY PUT US ON TWO SEPARATE BACKBOARDS AND THEY WALKED WITH US IT SEEMED LIKE FOREVER LONG LONG TIME ALL COULD SEE WAS THE BLUE SKY AND THEY PUT US IN AN AMBULANCE IN
THE AMBULANCE WAS WOMAN AN OFFICE WORKER WHO WAS VERY VERY UPSET AND MALE OFFICE WORKER WHO TOLD
INCAPACITATED

F1 LOADED US AND THOSE TWO PEOPLE AND SHORTLY AFTER
HENRY
THAT HAD FR TH 25TH
THAT WE LEFT AND THEY TOOK US
THERE WAS ALL SORTS OF CRAZY RUMORS GOING ON
THE EMS WOMAN IN THE AMBULANCE TOLD ME THAT THE BEEKMAN DOWNTOWN HOSPITAL HAD JUST BEEN BLOWN UP SO
THEY WANTED TO TAKE US TO OUTLYING HOSPITALS NOW
ENDED UP IN COLUMBIA PRESBYTERIAN HOSPITAL THE ALAN PAVILION WHICH IS NOT WHERE REGULAR COLUMBIA
PRESBYTERIAN IS ITS 220TH STREET WAY ABOVE THE REGULAR COLUMBIA PRESBYTERIAN SO WENT FROM ONE ENDS OF MANHATTAN TO THE OTHER END OF MANHATTAN
WAS IN TERRIFIC PAIN MY BACK WAS KILLING ME SO WHEN GET TO THE HOSPITAL WAS RAYED AND GOT CLEANED UP ALL THE STUFF WAS WASHED OUT OF MY MOUTH WAS GIVEN AN MRI FOR MY NECK AND RAYS FOR MY BACK THEY TOLD ME NOTHING WAS BROKEN IN MY BACK IT CERTAINLY FELT LIKE IT WAS
AND WITH THAT THIS IS ALL TAKING LONG PERIOD OF TIME WITH THAT WERE INTO BY THE TIME IM
TREATED THEY WERE INTO MAYBE FOUR OR FIVE OCLOCK
IN THE AFTERNOON MY BROTHER CAPTAIN JAMES 149 TRUCK HE FOUND OUT WHERE WAS AND HE
CAME UP TO GET ME HE CAME UP TO THE HOSPITAL
GUESS HENRY
12
THEY

HENRY
SO THEY WANTED ME TO STAY IN
THE HOSPITAL THAT NIGHT SAID NO CANT STAY GOTTA GET OUT
WITH THAT SIGNED MYSELF OUT AND MY BROTHER DROVE ME HOME STILL IN MY
HOSPITAL GOWN AND MY BOOTS AND THATS BASICALLY WHAT
HAPPENED GOT HOME AND WAITED FOR JOEY AND JOEY WAS NEVER FOUND THATS IT
ANYTHING ELSE THATS IT
MR LAKIOTES THAT TAKES CARE OF IT THEN THANK YOU THAT CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW ITS APPROXIMATELY 1230 HOURS
13
File No. 9110380
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
    BATTALION CHIEF EDWARD MORIARTY
 Interview Date:  December 19, 2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
Moriarty
2
          MR. LAKIOTES:  Today is December 19,
     2001.  The time is approximately 1030 hours.
     I am Battalion Chief Arthur Lakiotes, Safety
     Command of the Fire Department of the City of
     New York.  I am conducting an interview
     with --
     A.   Ed Moriarty.
     Q.   Battalion Chief, concerning the events of
September 11, 2001.
               Ed, will you take us through the day
and how the events unfolded for you and what your
day was like.
     A.   I arrived here at headquarters and I was
in the locker room at about 8:30.  I came up the
stairs after getting changed.  I came up the
elevator and I just missed Commissioner Fitzpatrick.
     They must have been on the elevator as I was
coming up.  So when I got to the 8th floor, there
was nobody, you know, of an upper level, on the 8th
floor at that point.  The first tower had already
been struck by the plane.  The second plane struck
the second tower, the south tower.  At that point I
realized it was a terrorist act and I decided
                                                 3
because there was, you know, most of our command
staff was over at the scene, you know, Chief Ganci,
Chief Nigro, I said, "You know, maybe I better stay
in the building just for a short time and just make
sure there wasn't going to be another hit in another
area of the city."  And that slight delay caused me
to get involved with a situation here.  I ended up
in Chief Turi's office, because that's where the
only phones were working.  I started getting
involved with mutual aide from the other departments
outside the city.  Jersey, Long Island, upstate.  I
got involved with the recall.
     I was working back and forth with FOC, the
operations command, Chief Ganci.  And at that point
we started to do some, you know, we were doing
really a support nature.  Time went very quickly and
when the towers actually collapsed I was sitting at
Chief Turi's desk on the phone with I think an
upstate company that was looking to see if we needed
help.  At that point we were trying to arrange for
staging areas for all of them to come into the city
and to stage, and we were trying to get the outlying
divisions to, you know, make sure that they would
stage them and use them properly.
Moriarty
                                                 4
     With that the first tower came down and
subsequently at that point my cell phone.  I could
Chief Ganci, Chief Nigro with my cell.  You know,
because of the nature of the phone, and Commissioner
Feehan.  And I tried to reach them from here.  I
left the building and what I did was I went to the
police academy where we had set up our OEM center
initially.  I was there and then I was at a couple
of the Emergency Rooms checking to see if our
members were being brought in there.
     I went to St. Vincent's, but there was nobody
there.  There was one member from Ladder 6 who had
gotten dug out with a separated shoulder, but that
was it.
          MR. LAKIOTES:  The time is approximately
     10:30.  That concludes the interview.
Moriarty
File No. 9110381
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
     ASSISTANT CHIEF MICHAEL BUTLER
   Interview Date:  December 21, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
M. BUTLER 2
          CHIEF CANTY:  Today is December 21st,
     2001.  The time is 1113 hours.  This is
     Michael Canty, Battalion Chief, New York
     City Fire Department.  I am conducting an
     interview with Assistant Chief Michael
     Butler, Bureau of Fire Prevention, regarding
     the events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Please state your name.
     A.   Michael J. Butler.
     Q.   And you're assignment?
     A.   I'm the Chief of Fire Prevention.
     Q.   Where did you respond to the World
Trade Center?
     A.   I responded from home.  I was on
vacation.
     Q.   How did you become aware of the
incident at the World Trade Center?
     A.   Via the television.
     Q.   En route to the World Trade Center,
what did you see?
     A.   I saw the first tower come down when I
was on the expressway prior to entering the
Midtown Tunnel.
     Q.   That's the Long Island Expressway?
M. BUTLER 3
     A.   Long Island Expressway.
     Q.   Where did you park your car when you
arrived at the World Trade Center?
     A.   I parked my car on Warren Street and
West, on Warren Street facing east.
     Q.   On arrival did any civilian report
anything to you?
     A.   No.  A lot of people running.
     Q.   To whom did you first report to and
where?
     A.   For lack of a better word, I reported
to Chief Cruthers someplace on West Street
shortly after the second tower came down.
     Q.   Were you given any specific assignment?
     A.   Chief Cruthers ordered me to assemble a
staging area -- actually at that time it was
called the operations post -- at Chambers and
West Street.
     Q.   You never entered any building prior to
the collapses; is that correct?
     A.   That's correct.
     Q.   Did you contact anyone in the buildings
prior to the collapse of the buildings?
     A.   Negative.  I did not.
M. BUTLER 4
     Q.   You previously stated that you were on
the Long Island Expressway when the first tower
collapsed.  What was your location at the time of
the second tower collapse?
     A.   I was on West Street approximately two
blocks north, probably at the interaction of
Murray and West.
     Q.   Were you in your vehicle?
     A.   No.  I was walking.
     Q.   Where did you go?
     A.   There was a chief's car, a GMC
battalion chief's car in that interaction.  As
the enveloping dust cloud reached me or prior to
reaching me, I ran behind that chief's car with a
small group young firefighters.  It was a truck
company, and it was a single digit.  But I don't
know who they were.
     Q.   Did you remove any injured civilians or
firefighters prior to or following any of these
collapses?
     A.   From the site?  No.  I probably
assisted people as they were coming in to the
operations post that I initially started to
establish at West and Chambers.
M. BUTLER 5
     Q.   Was that more in a supervisory
capacity?
A. Yes.
     Q.   Were these people seriously injured or
were they walking?
     A.   No, this was mostly dazed, disoriented
firefighters and civilians.
     Q.   Consider your handy talking
communications for a moment.  When you arrived --
what information do you have concerning handy
talking communications at the World Trade Center?
     A.   I have no information on communications
of handy talky within the building.  When I took
my position on West and Chambers, trying to make
contact from West and Chambers via my handy talky
with anyone in and around the Trade Center did
not happen.  And I know my handy talky was
charged.
     Q.   Did you hear any radio traffic on the
handy talky at that time?
     A.   No, there was no radio traffic, and
there was no radio traffic on the air, the
department radio, either.  It was dead silent.
     Q.   This was following the second collapse?
M. BUTLER 6
     A.   This was following the second collapse.
     Q.   Which channels did you operate on, if
you remember?
     A.   The universal channel, handy talky 1.
     Q.   Were you notified to switch to any
other channels?
     A.   I don't recall.
     Q.   Given the current known status of any
missing or deceased members, did you have any
visual or verbal contact with any of these
members on September 11th?
     A.   No, none whatsoever.
     Q.   Is there anything else that you would
like to add to this interview as far as
information concerning the events of September
11th?
     A.   No.
          CHIEF CANTY:  Thank you very much for
     your time, Chief.
          It is now 11:30 on December 21st, 2001.
     This concludes the interview.  It was an
     interview with Assistant Chief Michael
     Butler, Bureau of Fire Prevention, conducted
     by Battalion Chief Michael Canty, Bureau of
M. BUTLER 7
Operations.
File No. 9110382
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
     ASSISTANT CHIEF HAROLD MEYERS
 Interview Date:  December 21, 2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
H. Meyers
2
          MR. CANFY:  Today is December 21, 2001.
     It is 10:00 a.m. and this is Battalion Chief
     Michael Canfy of the Fire Department of the
     City of New York.  I am conducting an
     interview with Assistant Chief Harold Meyers,
     Bureau of Operations Citywide Tour Commander
     regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
          Please state your name.
     A.   Assistant Chief Harold Meyers, Citywide
Tour Commander.
     Q.   Chief, after the alarm, what did you see?
     A.   I didn't respond to the original alarm.
It was my day off.  I was in upstate New York when I
became aware that the World Trade Center had been
hit by an aircraft.  I came down and I arrived at
approximately 11:30 in the morning.
     Q.   So you arrived after both towers had
collapsed; is that correct?
     A.   That's correct.  Both towers had already
collapsed by the time I arrived.
     Q.   Where did you park your car, your vehicle,
when you arrived at the scene?
     A.   When I initially arrived, I parked my
vehicle at Park Row and Broadway.  At that point I
3
                     H. Meyers
got out and I did a survey on foot to do a size-up
and correct any obvious safety matters that I saw.
I got around as far as I could on foot down on
Liberty Street and I proceeded back around on Church
Street as far as I could go.
     When I couldn't go any further, I worked my way
back to my car.  I then moved my car to Vesey and
West Street.  I parked my car at Vesey and West and
I did another survey from that location.  Again,
taking any corrective action that had to be taken as
I went along, giving any direction that I had to
give as I did my survey.
     At that point, when I finished that, I worked
my way back up to the command post.  The main
command post at Chambers and West and reported in to
the commanders.
     Q.   While you were doing a size-up, it appears
that you basically had circled almost the entire
site, did you observe any victims due to the tower
collapse, either civilian or firefighters?
     A.   Yes.  There were several bodies.  Some
were dead, some were not dead.  There were people
receiving emergency first-aid.  There were people
that were in the process of being moved in the
4
kinds of staged waiting for removal.
     Q.   When you reported into the command post,
you reported to Chief Nigro; is that correct?
     A.   That's correct.
     Q.   Did he give you any specific assignment?
     A.   Yes, he did.  Chief Nigro directed me to
continue monitoring conditions at the site.
Specifically to monitor number 7 World Trade Center.
We were very concerned with the collapse potential
there, and to do whatever I could do to ensure site
safety in that no additional people became injured.
Also, to do what I could while up at the site to
organize some sort of command or control.
     Q.   Considering handy talkie communications,
you could only comment obviously following the
seconds collapse because before that you were not on
the scene.
               How would you characterize the
handy-talkie communications while you were on the
scene on September 11th?
     A.   There was heavy radio traffic, but the
handy talk I seemed to be working okay.
     Q.   Did you operate on more than one channel?
                     H. Meyers
ambulances and there were other bodies that were
5
                     H. Meyers
     A.   Yes, I did.  I was operating sometimes on
1, sometimes on 2, and occasionally on 6.
     Q.   One last question.  Do you have any
knowledge about the status of any missing, injured
or deceased members, where they might have been
before the collapse?
     A.   No.
          MR. CANFY:  That concludes this
     interview.  The time is now 1005.  It is
     December 21, 2001.  This interview was
     conducted by Battalion Chief Michael Canfy
     and the interview was of Assistant Chief
     Harold Meyers.
File No. 9110384
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
     BATTALION CHIEF STEPHEN RAYNIS
   Interview Date:  December 21, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
S. RAYNIS 2
          CHIEF KEMLY:  Today's date is December
     21st, 2001.  The time is 12:15 in the
     afternoon.  This is Battalion Chief Ronald
     Kemly of the Fire Department of the City of
     New York.  I am conducting an interview
     with Battalion Chief Stephen Raynis of
     Battalion 7.  He is currently doing a UFO
     spot in the 2nd Battalion.  The interview is
     taking place at the quarters of Battalion 2
     regarding the events of September 11th,
     2001.
     Q.   Chief Raynis, could you please tell me
what happened to you on September 11th.
     A.   At 0848 hours I was in the 4th
Battalion.  I had just gotten relieved by Chief
Ryan, Matty Ryan.  The box came in for a plane
into the Trade Center, second alarm.  I took my
gear off the rig; he threw his on, and he pulled
out.
          I turned on the department radio to
monitor what was happening and the TV to Channel
1, New York 1.  When I saw the second plane go
into the tower, myself and my aide, Bobby Newman,
grabbed our gear, and we got a police car to
S. RAYNIS 3
drive us down to the Trade Center.
          We were there shortly after the second
plane hit the south tower.  As we walked down the
block, we saw numerous jumpers from the Trade
Center.
          I reported in to the command post which
was set up in front of the World Financial
Center.  I saw Commissioner Von Essen and a
number of other staff chiefs, which I don't
remember exactly who at the time, but B.C. Ingram
from hazmat had asked me to set up a staging area
for all the numerous firefighters reporting in.
          I didn't have a radio, so I couldn't
communicate.  I had teamed up with Captain
Brethel from 24 Truck who had a radio and who was
off duty.  Like I said, I reported in to the
command post, and Chief Bob Ingram had asked me
to set up a staging area for all the numerous
firefighters reporting in.  Originally I had
started to set it up underneath the Winter
Garden, but I realized that we were still a
little too close to the command post.  So I moved
up to West and Vesey.
          I had a couple of companies there.  We
S. RAYNIS 4
were doing a search for a secondary device before
we officially set it up.  I had sent Bobby Newman
back to the high-rise rig to get the sign for the
staging area.  I thought it might be in there.
          At that time the first tower collapsed,
which was the south tower.  I was standing at
Vesey and West, and I watched the tower go down.
Then we got enveloped by the debris cloud.
          I was teamed up with Danny Brethel at
the time.  We worked our way back, after a few
minutes, back to the command post.  There were a
few injured firefighters and EMS workers right at
the command post, and the only chief there at the
time was Chief Cassano.
          We assisted a few people into the
garage of the World Financial Center.  Then Chief
Cassano ordered me and the units I had with me to
set up another command post west of West Street.
          We went through One World Financial
Center.  There was a search rope stretched.  We
had done a quick search of the garage.  Then we
walked through the building, out the rear door.
I attempted to set up another command post on
North Avenue and Vesey Street.
S. RAYNIS 5
          At the time I was trying to account for
the people who might have been missing.  So I was
getting units together, trying to just account
who might be missing, who was there.
          I ended up working with Lieutenant
Walsh from 3 Engine.  I got status from him.  He
was helping me out.  Then shortly after that the
north tower came down.  Again we got enveloped by
the debris cloud which came down Vesey Street.
          At that time whatever units I could get
back together, we worked our way up Vesey Street
to do a search of the street for any injured
civilians.
          The rest of the time I just spent
trying to get the units back together again.
Then I had heard that they were setting up a
command post at Chambers and West.  So at that
time anybody I had over by the water in that
riverside -- I forget what park it was, but North
and Vesey, we walked our way over to the new
command post at Chambers Street.
          B.C. Hayden was there, and Chief
Fellini I saw.  At that point they asked me to
set up a staging area again.  So I went one block
S. RAYNIS 6
north of Chambers, and I set up a temporary
staging area.  As units were coming in, I just
filled out a log of who was coming in.  Most of
the units were coming from the 40 Engine staging
area, so they all had different numbers:  41,
40-2, all of those teams.
          I worked with Chief Narbutt and Nardone
at the staging area for the rest of the night.
          That's my story.
     Q.   Okay.  A couple quick questions.  You
said when you first went to the -- after Chief
Cassano told you to set up a command post at
Vesey, I believe --
     A.   Vesey and North Avenue.
     Q.   You had a couple companies with you.
Do you know who they were?
     A.   No, I have no idea.
     Q.   You said you sent the aide back for the
sign.
     A.   For the staging area sign.
     Q.   Was that in the 7th Battalion's car?
     A.   He was going to the high-rise unit to
see if it was in there.
     Q.   Do you know where that was located?
S. RAYNIS 7
     A.   The high-rise unit was located right by
I think the walkway.  That wasn't damaged until
the second collapse.
          Bobby Newman was pretty close.  He was
pretty lucky that he didn't get hurt or killed.
     Q.   You said there was a search rope.  Do
you know who stretched that?  Any idea?
     A.   I have no idea.  It was stretched when
I got there.
     Q.   You said you were forming up units you
mentioned with a lieutenant from Engine 3.
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   Do you remember any units that you
re-assembled?
     A.   No, I don't.  Everybody was scattered,
pretty much.  I don't know.  I don't remember.
     Q.   Okay.  If you have nothing further,
that concludes the interview.
     A.   Okay.  That's it.
File No. 9110385
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER PAUL DIPAOLO
   Interview Date: December 26, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
P. DIPAOLO 2
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Today is December 26,
     2001.  The time is approximately 1400 hours.
     I am Battalion Chief Art Lakiotes, Safety
     Command, conducting an interview with --
          FIREFIGHTER DiPAOLO:  Paul DiPaolo,
     Engine 205.
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  -- regarding the
     events of except 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Paul, if you would, just tell me how
your day unfolded, how the events unfolded.
     A.   I was home originally, saw it on the
news.  After the second plane hit, they gave the
recall.  I called Eddie Green.  I told him I
would meet him at his house.  He said Richie
Murray had already called him.  I went to
Eddie's.  Richie picked the both of us up.  We
came to the firehouse.  We got to the firehouse,
got our gear.  We picked up Rick Fowler, Paul
Beck and John Urso, who were here already.
          The six of us went across.  The first
building had already collapsed.  We went across
the bridge.  We parked on I think it was Broadway
and probably Liberty off Cortlandt, in that area.
          As we're walking down Liberty Street,
P. DIPAOLO 3
what we had heard was there were people
trapped -- they thought people were trapped in
the Burger King, which was on the corner of
Church and Liberty, around the corner of 10 and
10's quarters.
          As soon as we got to the corner, we saw
Tom Boccarossa, who was the chauffeur of Engine
205 that day, standing on the corner by himself.
We got to him.  We said, "Tom, what's going on?"
He said, "Everybody's gone."  We asked him to
explain, because we didn't know exactly what he
meant.  He said the last thing he heard, he
couldn't get in touch with the engine or the
truck.
          About maybe three, four minutes after
we originally spoke to him, we felt a rumble.  Me
and Paul Beck grabbed Tom, and we ran down
Trinity, and I believe we made it probably right
around the corner.  I don't know what street that
is.  What street would that be right there?
     Q.   Thames Street.
     A.   Thames that goes all the way through.
We made it around the bend, and the three of us
made it right around the corner as everything
P. DIPAOLO 4
came down.  We got hit with all the debris.  It
knocked us down.  We crawled into a little
service elevator area in the building.  There
were I think one or two other firemen in there
already.
          We waited about it had to be ten
minutes or so, and then we heard a voice on the
loudspeaker saying if anybody can hear this
follow -- because Tom we thought was hurt.  He
wasn't feeling good.  He had been standing out
there for the first collapse.  He went onto the
rig.
          Me and Paul brought him -- let me see
where it would be.  We walked along Broadway
probably to Pine Street, and that's where a
security guard was with a bullhorn and a
flashlight.  But at that point it was all black.
          We brought Tom into the building.  I
think it could have been the Equitable building.
I'm not sure.  We left Tom Boccarossa there,
because they had set up a first aid station.  Me
and Paul Beck went back to find everybody else.
          We met up with Richie and John Urso.
They couldn't find Eddie Green; and Rick Fowler,
P. DIPAOLO 5
they knew where he was, but he wasn't with us
anymore.
          After that we went looking for Eddie.
In turn we found the engine.  We met up with all
the engine guys.  We asked them if they had heard
from the truck.  They didn't hear anything.
          Eventually we found Eddie.  He had been
buried under a lot of stuff, because he obviously
ran a different way.  Three of us ran one way.
The other ones, I'm not sure which way they ran.
          Then we finally got all together, and
we went right to the area to start looking for
people.  After we met up with the engine and
Lieutenant Hayes, we went back to the rig.  We
got the rig and we drove it down onto the west
side, and we drove it right in front of 90 West.
          Actually we supplied -- it turned out
we supplied water to a standpipe in the building,
because they had a couple of stangs going out of
the window into the other building.  That's where
the engine stayed most of the day.
          I was in the rig for a while.  Richie
was in the rig for a while.  Then we basically
just went around searching and stuff like that
P. DIPAOLO 6
the rest of the day.
     Q.   You didn't see anyone -- you got there
after -- okay.
     A.   We got there after the first building
was already down.
     Q.   That's basically it; right?  You found
the engine, because I know they were --
     A.   Right.  We found the engine after a
while.  We were just looking around and happened
to see them.  Richie Murray kept asking people on
the radio, "Anybody seen" -- first Eddie.  Then
"Has anybody seen the engine?  Has anybody seen
Ladder 118?"  We finally got in touch with the
engine, but nobody ever heard from the truck.
          So we have really no idea except
Lieutenant Hayes had said the 15th floor.  He
thought it was the north tower going up.  That
was the last thing he had heard from them.
Nobody actually heard from them.  We have no
idea.
          We found the truck on the west side,
right in front of West and Vesey.  That's where
the truck was.  We have a picture of it there.
So we know that's where it was parked.  Then they
P. DIPAOLO 7
moved it up Vesey to North End.  That's actually
where we found it parked after we were walking
around all day, because then we started looking
for it to see where it was.  But somebody had
moved it.  We don't know who moved it.
     Q.   Yeah, out of the way.
     A.   They moved it up that way out of the
way.
     Q.   Paul, thank you.
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  That concludes the
     interview.  It's approximately 1405

FILE NO 9110386
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER TIMOTHY JULIAN
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 26 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY MAUREEN MCCORMICK

JULIAN
BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES TODAYS DATE IS DECEMBER 26 2001 THE TIME IS APPROXIMATELY 1245 HOURS MY NAME IS CHIEF ART LAKIOTES SAFETY BATTALION NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH
THE WITNESS FIREFIGHTER JULIAN
BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES THE WITNESS LADDER 118 BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES
JULIAN TIMOTHY
WHAT COMPANY
118 REGARDING THE
EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001
TIM IF YOU WOULD JUST TELL ME IN YOUR OWN
WORDS START WITH THE RESPONSE AND THEN TAKE ME THROUGH
ALL RIGHT IM ASSIGNED TO LADDER 118
WAS WORKING IN ENGINE 205 ON MUTUAL EXCHANGE FOR THE DAY TOUR THE BOX CAME IN BELIEVE THE PLANE
CRASHED AT QUARTER TO NINE WE RESPONDED TO PLANE HITTING THE FIRST YOU KNOW NORTH TOWER JUST THE ENGINE NOT THE TRUCK
HAD THE BACKUP POSITION DIDNT HAVE
RADI ALS WAS RIDING BACKWARDS AND
GOING OVER THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE AND WE STILL AT THAT
POINT PROBABLY THOUGHT IT WAS AN ACCIDENT REMEMBER

JULIAN
SAYING TO THE GUYS GUYS WERE GOING TO MAKE HISTORY TODAY MEANT THAT IN GOOD WAY
IT WAS JUST LOT OF HYSTERIA PEOPLE EXITING MANHATTAN OVER THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE WHEN WE GOT TO THE MANHATTAN SIDE IT WAS CHAOS AND DO BELIEVE THATS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY IM STILL HERE IS BECAUSE AT
THAT POINT THINK WE WERE RESPONDING TO THE NORTH TOWER AND THERE WAS NO ACCESS AT ALL SO THINK WE MADE LEFT ON BROADWAY AT THAT POINT AND STARTED
HEADING
SOUTH
BECAUSE WAS RIDINQ BACKWARDS WAS
LITTLE DISORIENTED FINALLY WE MADE IT TO BROADWAY AND LIBERTY AND THE SECOND PLANE HIT SO THAT WAS
PROBABLY ABOUT NINE OCLOCK AND IT WAS THE LOUDEST EXPLOSION EVER HEARD IT WAS MASS HYSTERIA AND
SCREAMING AND PEOPLE RUNNING AND THATS WHEN WE REALIZED AT LEAST REALIZED IT WAS MORE THAN JUST
AN ACCIDENT IT WAS AN ATTACK
THERE WERE SOME INJURED CIVILIANS AT THAT
POINT THAT CAME UP TO US ASKING US TO HELP THEM AND WE OFFERED THEM SOME EMS BANDAGES AND WHAT NOT AND TOLD
TH
WE GOT BACK ON OUR RIG AND WE PROCEEDED
SOUTH IM NOT SURE WHICH STREET WE WENT WEST ON BUT

JULIAN
WE CAME BACK UP TRINITY PLACE THE CORNER OF TRINITY AND LIBERTY AND WE PARKED OUR RIG AND REMEMBER
GETTING OFF OUR RIG
HE SAW WHAT WAS GOING ON BELIEVE ME ANYHOW WE WALKED DOWN LIBERTY STREET WEST PAST 10 AND
10S QUARTERS THEY ALREADY HAD TRIAQE QOINQ ON ALREADY WOUNDED CIVILIANS IN THE STREET THAT DAY THERE WAS LIKE MARKET PROBABLY GOING TO TAKE PLACE FARMERS MARKET OR SHOPPING BAZAAR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT IT WAS VENDORS WAGONS
NOW AT THIS POINT LIBERTY STREET WAS PRETTY MUCH DESOLATE EXCEPT US IT WAS LIEUTENANT HAYES
CHRIS MURRAY FIREMAN AT 205 MYSELF AT BACKUP AND THEN GEORGE CLANCY FROM 205 IN CONTROL
AS WE WERE WALKING DOWN LIBERTY STREET WE STARTED REALIZING THAT NOT ONLY WAS THERE BODIES AND
DTHRIS IN TH STR
METAL BUT WE STARTED SEEING IT WASNT EVEN BODIES
BURNING PAP
IT WAS PARTS OF BODIES AND IT WAS PRETTY DISGUSTING
AND DTHRIS

JULIAN
AND SHOCKING AND THINK WE REALIZED WE WERE OBVIOUSLY IN BAD ZONE PERHAPS THINGS FALLING FROM THE
BUILDING AND LIEUTENANT HAYES MADE SMART DECISION
WE SAW COMMAND POST GOING ON UNDER THE FOOT
BRIDGE AT WEST STREET AND LIBERTY BUT WE WALKED TO GUESS WASHINGTON STREET OR EVEN GREENWICH IM NOT SURE YEAH THINK GREENWICH WE CUT OVER TO ALBANY AND DOWN TO WEST STREET AND BACK TO THAT FOOT BRIDGE AND BELIEVE THATS ANOTHER REASON THE CLOCKS
TICKING IN OUR FAVOR NOT KNOWING AT THE TIME LIEUTENANT HAYES
MADE THAT DECISION FIQURINQ WE WERE IN WANT TO SAY COLLAPSE ZONE WE DIDNT
DONT THINK IT WOULD
BUT
FALLING DEBRIS ZONE AT LEAST FALLING DEBRIS ZONE IT WAS
BODY PARTS EVERYWHERE
TO THE FOOT BRIDGE AT WEST STREET REMEMBER SEEING
CHIEF BARBARA SAW YOU CHIEF BUT UNFORTUNATELY
KNEW HE WAS TALKING TO ANOTHER CHIEF DIDNT KNOW IT
COLLAPSE
WAS YOU
AT THAT POINT THAT
REMEMBER THEY WERE GETTING
GOT HIT AND WE GOT IN AND BELIEVE IT
PLAN
REPORT ANOTHER PLANE WAS COMING
WAS FBI AGENT OR WHOEVER OR
DANGEROUS SAW SO WE DID THAT AND WE MADE IT
AN
TH

JULIAN
POLICE AND HE WAS SAYING ITS NOT ANOTHER PLANE YET
IT IS PLANE BUT ITS FIGHTER JET AND IN HINDSIGHT
IT TURNS OUT PROBABLY THAT WAS THE FIGHTER JET THAT WAS GOING TO MAYBE SHOOT DOWN THAT PLANE BUT WE THOUGHT ANOTHER PLANE WAS COMING IN AND WE WERE IN BAD SPOT
PARANOIA WAS BOUND TO SET IN
BUT UPON HIS WE HEARD IT FLY OVER AND
THEN WE FELT SAFE IT WASNT KAMIKAZE PLANE KNOW
YES
REMEMBER BEINQ AT THAT COMMAND POST AND IT
WAS PRETTY MUCH LOT OF RADIO TRAFFIC AND LOT GOING ON AND WE WERE KIND OF NAGGING CHIEF BARBARA TO PUT US TO WORK WE SAW SEVERAL JUMPERS FROM BUILDING THE NORTH TOWER ON THE WEST STREET SIDE AND EVERY TIME WE SAW JUMPER EVERY TIME WE WERE ANXIOUS TO GO TO
WORK PUT OUT THE FIRE THEY STOP JUMPING AND REMEMBER LIEUTENANT HAYES SAYING 205 YOU KNOW HE
WANTS TO GO CHIEF AND THE CHIEF BARKED AT US GUYS
OPEN YOUR COATS LOOSEN UP YOUR MASKS AND SIT TIGHT FOR MINUTE STAND BY TILL WE FIGURE OUT WHERE WE ARE
PUT
BECAUSE GUESS ON THE ORIGINAL PLAN WE WERE
GOING TO THE FIRST TOWER BUT DUE TO TRAFFIC AND
YOU

JULIAN
HYSTERIA WE DIDNT MAKE IT THERE AGAIN THE CLOCK IS
TICKING IN OUR FAVOR NOT KNOWING THIS THOUGH OF COURSE
AT THAT POINT THINK REMEMBER GETTING AN TO 216 205 THINK 217 AND THINK LADDER
ASSIGNMENT
122 TO GO INTO WORLD TRADE REPORT TO ANOTHER COMMAND POST AND TAKE IT FROM THERE
AT THAT POINT WE GOT OUR GEAR TOGETHER WE HEADED UP CEDAR STREET TO OUR LEFT BETWEEN US AND THE
BUILDING WAS SMALL CHURCH AND THERE WAS PARKING
LOT AT THE FOOT OF THAT FOOT BRIDQE AND THERE WERE SEVERAL CAR FIRES GOING ON SO WE KIND OF WENT UP
CEDAR STREET FOR THAT VERY REASON TO AVOID THAT TO GET TO WASHINGTON STREET AND THEN WE WERE GOING TO CUT ACROSS TO GO INTO AN ENTRANCEWAY AT THE LIBERTY STREET ENTRANCE AT WORLD TRADE AND THATS WHEN SAW 216 WHEN THEY ROUNDED THE CORNER AND THEY WERE ABOUT
20 FEET IN FRONT OF ME
SAW THEM ACTING DONT KNOW WHATS THE
WORD JUST EXCITEDLY AND THERE WAS PROBLEM REALLY THOUGHT THAT FIRST THEY FOUND CIVILIAN
TH
WITH US AND THATS WHEN SAW IT WAS FIREMAN THAT
INJUR AND RAN UP AS DID
WAS INJURED AND DOWN AND THEY BEGAN DRAGGING HIM
THAT

JULIAN
WE FIGURED LETS GET HIM OUT OF THE AREA IN FRONT OF 90 WEST ON CEDAR THERE WAS SCAFFOLD LETS
BRING HIM UP TO THERE WE FIGURED THATS MORE SAFE AND HEARD THEM SAYING DANNY DANNY AND REALIZED
LOOKED DOWN IT WAS DANNY SUHR FROM 216 KNEW HIM FROM THE FOOTBALL TEAM STILL DIDNT REALIZE
THAT WAS HIM YOU KNOW UST
GUESS BUT REMEMBER HELP DRAGGING HIM OVER THERE
PICKED UP HIS HELMET AND WE BROUGHT HIM TO THE ENTRANCEWAY OF 90 WEST AND WE OPENED UP HIS COAT AND STARTED QIVINQ HIM CPR AS OTHER QUYS RAN TO QET EMT PARAMEDIC AND AN AMBULANCE AND REMAINED AT 90 WEST WORKING ON DANNY AND FINALLY WE GOT STRETCHER
WE GOT HIM ON THE STRETCHER WE GOT AN OXYGEN BAG VALVE AND OFF THEY WENT REMAINED THOUGH AT 90 WEST DID REMEMBER HAVING HIS HELMET AND HIS HELMET WAS SPLIT ON TOP AND PUT IT TO THE SIDE AND KNOW THE GUYS HEARD WERE LOOKING FOR THAT LATER ON THAT WAS THE LAST TIME SAW IT REMEMBER AT THAT TIME WE PACKAGED HIM AND HE WENT
HEARD RUMOR THAT FATHER JUDGE CAME OVER HIM THAT FATH JUDG WAS
BUT DIDNT
PERHAPS ON WEST AND VESEY NO WAY HE COULD HAVE BEEN
ON WEST AND LIBERTY BUT NONETHELESS DANNY MADE IT TO

JULIAN
AN AMBULANCE AND OUR GUYS CAME BACK 205 50 NOW IT WAS 216 205 THINK 217 AND IM NOT QUITE SURE WHAT HAPPENED TO 217 AND 216 KNOW TWO GUYS FROM 216 ARE
MISSING BELIEVE IM THINKING THEY RAN ACROSS INTO WORLD
WERE ARE FIGURING NOW WE WERE OBVIOUSLY IN DANGER FALLING DEBRIS ZONE REMEMBER STANDING ON THE CORNER OF CEDAR AND WASHINGTON PUTTING MY MASK BACK ON GETTING MY ROLL UP HAD AN EXTRA BOTTLE AND MY BACK TO THE TRADE TOWER IM IN BAD SPOT HERE YOU KNOW
REMEMBER WALKING BACK TO 90 WEST 205 WE
REGROUPED TOGETHER LIEUTENANT HAYES CLANCY MURRAY AND MYSELF AND AT THAT POINT AND THERE WAS
PHOTOGRAPHER FROM THE DAILY NEWS WHO NOW GAVE ME PICTURE THAT JUST SHOWED TO YOU WHICH IM GOING TO
KEEP WITH MY OWN INAUDIBLE
ANYHOW REMEMBER SEEING HIM THEN AT THAT
POINT AND BUILDING MAINTENANCE GUY FROM 90 WEST CAME OUT AND HE WAS WAVING US IN GUYS COME THROUGH THIS
WAY
FINDING
LI
HAY
PROBABLY BANKERS TRUST OR 90 WEST IF THEY HAD ONE
AND
WAS
SUBWAY ENTRANCE THROUGH ONE OF THE BUILDINGS

UP
SO WE COULD GET INTO WORLD TRADE AND WORK OUR WAY WE FIGURED IT WAS DANGEROUS IN THE STREET
RIGHT
SO WE CUT THROUGH 90 WEST THE GUY
JULIAN
SECURITY MAINTENANCE GUY POINTED US OUT TO GUESS ALBANY STREET AND WE POPPED OUT THAT DOOR AND WE
HEADED EAST AGAIN REMEMBER THE PHOTOGRAPHER HE SAYS HE WENT WEST
DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED AGAIN TO 216 AND 122 WE CAME OUT FROM 90 WEST MADE LEFT HEADED
EAST AND RIQHT WHEN WE QOT TO THE CORNER OF WASHINQTON AND ALBANY THATS WHEN HEARD THE BUILDING COLLAPSE
FIRST THOUGHT IT WAS AN EXPLOSION THOUGHT MAYBE THERE WAS BOMB ON THE PLANE BUT
DELAYED TYPE OF THING YOU KNOW SECONDARY DEVICE
WAS CONVINCED FOR WEEK IT WAS SECONDARY
DEVICES
YOU KNOW AND JUST HEARD LIKE AN EXPLOSION CRACKING TYPE OF NOISE AND THEN IT
FREIGHT TRAIN RUMBLING AND PICKING REMEMBER LOOKED UP AND SAW IT COMING
ACR WASHINGT
THE VERY CORNER OF WASHINGTON AND ALBANY THINK ITS
THE SOUTH SIDE OF BANKERS TRUST BUILDING
AND THEN SOUNDED LIKE SPEED AND
UP
AND
WAS ABLI MAK IT
10

JULIAN
MADE IT RIGHT TO THE CORNER AND THERE COLUMN RIGHT THERE AND WAS WITH MY GUYS WE ALL
MADE IT TO LIKE THE COLUMN AND REMEMBER IT WAS PLATE GLASS BEHIND ME AND IM THINKING IM GOING TO GET HIT BY THIS GLASS AND LIKE PORCUPINE IM GOING TO GET
IT YOU KNOW BUT NONETHELESS IT RUMBLED
IT WAS THE LOUDEST RUMBLING EVER HEARD
GOT THROWN DOWN AND REMEMBER GOT KNOCKED DOWN REMEMBER
BEING BURIED THINK
PIECES OF METAL SOMETHINQ HIT ME NOT THAT HEAVY
THOUGH WASNT AN BEAM OR ELSE WOULDNT BE TALKING TO YOU AND REMEMBER THAT BEING ON ME AND KIND OF WAS ABLE TO STAND UP AND PUSH EVERYTHING OFF ME
BUT NOW FELT LIKE WAS IN THE STREET OR THE
SIDEWALK AND IT WAS HOT SMOKY FELT LIKE WAS IN FIRE AND REMEMBER DIGGING MY WAY OUT LOT OF
CEMENTATION POWDERY INSULATION WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT ALMOST LIKE BEING IN BLIZZARD WITH SOME
METAL DEBRIS RIGHT ON ME FORTUNATELY NOTHING HEAVY HIT ME
MY MASK AND FRUND MY XTRA
CYLINDER FIGURED NEED THAT AND WAS LOOKING FOR THE BUILDING 90 WEST AND FOUND IT PUT MY
THE GROUND SHOOK AND IT JUST GOT BLACK AND
DUCKED MORE OR LESS YOU KNOW
11

JULIAN
FLASHLIGHT ON AND FOUND 90 WEST AND WAS JUST
ABOUT TO SMASH THE WINDOW OF 90 WEST TO GET INSIDE AND RIGHT WHEN DID IT FELT HAND GRAB ME AND PULL ME IN THE DOORWAY AND THINK IT WAS ENGINE 220
LIEUTENANT DONT KNOW WHO HE WAS HE GRABBED ME
TOLD HIM WAS WITH 205 AND WE STARTED
FOR EACH OTHER AND WE WENT INTO 90 WEST AND
HOLLERING
WE KIND OF REGROUPED WE WERE MISSING CLANCY FOR
SHORT WHILE BUT WE FINALLY FOUND HIM HE WENT INTO ANOTHER BUILDING SOMEBODY ELSE FOUND HIM AND THE IRONIC PART IS 90 WEST IS NOW BEINQ COLLAPSED ON AND IS ON FIRE NO IM SORRY BANKERS TRUST AND WERE INSIDE
TAKING REFUGE
WE FIGURED SAFER IN THERE THAN IN THE STREET
BUT WE FIGURED ONCE WE REGROUPED AND KIND OF CALMED DOWN WE TOOK OUR MASKS OFF AND WE TALKED TO EACH OTHER IT WAS KIND OF LIKE ALL RIGHT LETS HEAD BACK EITHER WEST STREET OR YOU KNOW HEAD SOUTH BLOCK
SO NOW ORIGINALLY WE WERE WITH 220 ENGINE
WE GOT OUR ACT TOGETHER WE WENT ACROSS ALBANY STREET TH BUILDING IM SUR WHAT BUILDING THAT WAS AND WE CUT THROUGH THAT BUILDING NOW ITS TWO
ENGINE COMPANIES WE GOT NO TOOLS HAD MY EXTRA
12

JULIAN
CYLINDER DONT KNOW IF IT WAS ONCE WE GOT IN THAT SIDE BUT ON THE NEXT STREET CAR OUTSIDE
THINK IT WAS LOCKED AND REMEMBER BREAKING THE DOOR WITH CYLINDER AND THINK WE WENT DONT KNOW WHETHER WE WENT ONE MORE BLOCK TO RECTOR DONT REMEMBER KNOW WE CUT THROUGH AT LEAST TWO BUILDINGS SOUTH DIRECTLY RIGHT THROUGH AND THEN WE POPPED OUT ON THINK RECTOR AND MADE IT UP TO GUESS GREENWICH IM NOT SURE IF IT WAS THINK IT WAS TRINITY WE MADE IT TO TRINITY
LOOKINQ FOR OUR RIQ WE FIQURED WED HEAD BACK TO OUR RIG FIND OUR CHAUFFEUR OR EVEN THE
COMMAND POST WHATEVER WE HAD TO DO YOU
THAT POINT THE SECOND BUILDING COLLAPSED
SAME EXACT NOISE ALL OVER AGAIN IT WAS
FURTHER AWAY AND THERE WAS PEOPLE IN THE STREET
WE KIND OF HEARD THEM PEOPLE ON THE STREET WANDERING AROUND IN SHOCK WE WERE LIKE KIND OF
HURRYING THEM TO GET INSIDE GET INSIDE AND PEOPLE HAD MINOR CUTS AND BLEEDING SAW FACES IN DOORWAY ON
TRINITY WHAT IT
THE BUILDING
DONT REMEMBER THE ADDRESS 61 TRINITY OR
WAS PRTHABLY TRINITY AND IT WAS RIGHT THERE
REMEMBER SAW PEOPLE INSIDE WE RAN IN
13
KNOW AND AT HEARD THE
JUST LITTLE

AND GOT HER MACHINE NOW ITS ABOUT WHAT TIME THE SECOND BUILDING COLLAPSED
DO YOU KNOW
1020
THE SECOND BUILDING
1029 OR SOMETHING 1029
1020 SO THIS IS
COLLAPSED AT EXACTLY
PROBABLY LIKE 1045
1035 KN
JULIAN
THERE THINKING LETS GET THESE PEOPLE OFF THE STREET IN THERE AND FIGURE OUT WHAT OUR NEXT MOVE IS AND THEN THE SECOND BUILDING COLLAPSED AND IT WAS LIKE BIG WAVE AGAIN WOOSH PAPER AND DEBRIS AND POWDER AND FIRE AND SMOKE
AND AT THAT POINT WE WERE INSIDE AND AS IT TURNED OUT THERE WERE PEOPLE IN THE BUILDING WHO
WANTED TO LEAVE AND WE TALKED THEM IN TO STAYING AND WE WERE TRYING TO REASSURE THEM SOME PEOPLE HAD CELL PHONES THE PHONES WERE WORKING WE TOLD THE PEOPLE CALL YOUR FAMILIES THEY HELPED US OUT THEY QAVE US WATER WE WASHED OUR EYES OUT TOWELS
REMEMBER CALLED MY FIANCEE WERE MARRIED NOW BUT CALLED HER AND SHE WORKS AT
RIGHT
AND REMEMBER CALLING HER AND MY MOTHER AND
14

JULIAN
GOT BOTH THEIR MACHINES SO NOW IM THINKING NEW YORK JUST GOT BOMBED BY YOU KNOW SO WE KIND OF
REGROUPED WASHED OUR EYES OUT THEY WERE CAKED YOU
KNOW ENDED UP GETTING CONJUNCTIVITIS SURE
AFTER THAT BUT ANYHOW WE REGROUPED GOT OUR STUFF TOGETHER AND WE HEADED BACK TO LIBERTY AND
TRINITY AND WE FOUND OUR RIG AND WE COULDNT FIND OUR
CHAUFFEUR TOM BOCCAROSSA BUT WE RAN INTO SOME OF GUYS THAT OFF DUTY CAME IN CAME ACROSS AND IT COLLAPSED AND THEY JUST ESCAPED THE COLLAPSE FROM THEY WERE ON THEIR WAY TO THE AREA AND SO THEY EXPERIENCED PRETTY MUCH WHAT WE EXPERIENCED
OUR
SO WE ALL KIND OF TEAMED UP WE SAW OUR RIG WE GOT OUR RIG FROM CORNER THE OF TRINITY IT WAS BURIED THE WINDOWS WERE BLOWN OUT THERE WAS
COUPLE OF CAR FIRES GOING ON WE MOVED SOME STUFF OUT OF THE WAY RICHIE MURRAY DROVE IT HE JUMPED IN IT HE TURNED IT AROUND HEADED SOUTH AND THEN HE HEADED WEST DONT KNOW IF IT WAS RECTOR PROBABLY RECTOR STREET WE CUT BACK TO WEST STREET WENT NORTH AGAIN
MAD IT AB TH MARRI SOUTH OF TO CARLYLE AND WEST AND WE MADE IT TO
THERE AND AT THAT POINT THEY WERE STARTING TO STRETCH
15

JULIAN
LINES INTO 90 WEST WAS PRETTY MUCH GOING AND WE STRETCHED THE LINE IN THERE AND WE WERE HELPING OUT
AND IT WAS JUST CHAOS EVERYWHERE
STRETCHING LINE HERE HELP OVER HERE
THERE WERE GUYS SETTING UP HOSE TO THE DRAFT FROM THE
RIVER AND ACTUALLY KNEW CAPTAIN RICHIE WELDON
HE WAS LIEUTENANT AT 74 ENGINE WHEN WAS THERE AND
REMEMBER HELPING STRETCH LIKE 12 FOR LITTLE
AWHILE AND REMEMBER GOING BACK TO OUR GUYS AND WE STRETCHED LINE INTO 90 WEST AND THAT WAS GETTING SHITTY AND THEY BACKED US OUT OF THERE AND THEN WE GOT AN ORDER TO SET UP IN THE MARRIOTT WITH COUPLE OF OTHER COMPANIES OR ON ALBANY GUESS BETWEEN ALBANY AND CARLYLE THERE WAS MARRIOTT RIGHT THERE
WE ENDED UP WALKING UP 40 FIGHTS OF STAIRS WITH OUR ROLL UPS IN THE MARRIOTT AND WE BROUGHT
STANG AS WELL ANOTHER COMPANY WE WERE WAS TAKING TURNS CARRYING AND WE MADE IT TO LIKE 37 38 39 WE SET UP AT THE WINDOWS ON THE NORTH SIDE AND THE ROOF YOU KNOW MULTI VERSILE THE WATER PRESSURE WAS HORRIBLE AND WE WERE JUST SHOOTING WATER ON 90 WEST PR MUCH TH TH DAY THATS WH SP MOST SPENT THE REST OF THE DAY AND THEN FINALLY
WE GOT RELIEVED MAYBE AROUND GUESS LIKE AND WE
16

JULIAN
WALKED BACK DOWN 40 FLIGHTS OF STAIRS AND OUR RIG GOT RAVAGED ALL OUR TOOLS AND FLASHLIGHTS EVERYTHING YOU HAD LEFT ON THE RIG GONE MASK
SURE
AND AT THAT POINT REMEMBER HEADING OVER TO
WEST GUESS WEST AND LIBERTY AGAIN AND JUST STARTING TO SEARCH AND PLOUGH YOU KNOW AND MUST HAVE BEEN
THERE FOR COUPLE OF HOURS DONT THINK HAD
WATCH ON THINK THAT THREW ME OFF THAT DAY MAYBE WAS BETTER OFF BUT REMEMBER IT WAS AROUND ELEVEN OCLOCK THAT NIQHT ME AND COUPLE OF QUYS WE WALKED TO THE FOOT OF THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE AND WE STARTED GETTING RIDES FROM PD VANS YOU KNOW CAR GOING OVER AND DONT KNOW IF IT WAS THAT NIGHT
ONE OF THE NIGHTS NEW YORK MANHATTAN
TRUSTEE RUDY SANFILIPPO COULD BE MISTAKEN MAYBE IT WASNT THE FIRST NIGHT BUT ONE OF THE NIGHTS WAS
WORKING HE GAVE ME RIDE OVER THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE
BUT THE
THINK THE FIRST NIGHT POLICE CAR HOPPED IN TRUNK LITERALLY EXHAUSTED WAS COVERED IN SHIT
DEFINITELY
MY
GONE
SHOT BURNT RED AND MADE IT BACK TO THE
17

JULIAN
FIREHOUSE THAT WAS THE FIRST NIGHT PRETTY MUCH
MEAN LIEUTENANT HAYES MEAN TRAFFIC WE GOT DELAYED LIEUTENANT HAYES MADE US GO AROUND TO ALBANY
AND THEN AFTER DANNY GOT HIT REALLY THOUGHT HE GOT HIT BY DEBRIS BUT THE RUMOR WAS HE GOT HIT BY BODY
DIDNT SEE IT
KNOW HE WAS HIT OBVIOUSLY IT KILLED
HIM AT THE TIME WE WERE WORKING ON HIM REALLY
DIDNT THINK HE WAS GONE BUT WAS OBVIOUSLY IN
DENIAL YOU KNOW YOU JUST WANT TO HELP BUT WE HELPED 216 TRYINQ TO HELP HIM TAKE THE LATEST AQAIN THE CLOCKS TICKING THE BUS AND THEN THE GUY FROM 90 WEST SUGGESTED WE CUT THROUGH LIEUTENANT HAYES WAS LIKE LETS FIND SUBWAY ENTRANCE TO GO UNDERGROUND INTO
AND WORK OUR WAY UP
HE WAS SMART HE WAS THINKING THERE WAS LOT OF CHAOS AND HE KEPT HIS HEAD AND 205 WE STUCK
TOGETHER WE BUMPED INTO OTHER COMPANIES ALONG THE
WAY BUT HE MADE
REALLY BELIEVE THAT TOM HAYES YOU KNOW COUPLE OF DECISIONS RIGHT THERE THAT
THAT WERE RIGHT
IM STILL
THATS TRUE SURE
AND WE ALL KEPT OUR HEADS AND WE STAYED
TALKING
18

JULIAN
TOGETHER AND WE HAD AN IDEA IF WE STUCK TOGETHER AND WITH HAYES YOU KNOW WE WORKED AS TEAM AND
BELIEVE HE SAVED MY LIFE
DECISION
FIRE FIRST
SURE IT WAS NOT DAY WHERE YOU KNEW WHAT TO MAKE
NO
IT WAS ESPECIALLY
THERE WAS
WHEN THERE WAS CAR FIRE LIKE
COLLAPSE THERES WHAT DO YOU DO
EXACTLY PLUS AS PART OF THE EVENT YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS TAKES LITTLE BIT OF WHAT YOURE
ACTUALLY SEEING BECAUSE YOU DONT BELIEVE WHAT YOURE SEEING
RIGHT
WHEN YOURE SEEING THOSE TOWERS COME DOWN
NEVER THOUGHT THEY WOULD COME DOWN
NO ITS AMAZING ITS
KNEW WE WERE GOING TO HAVE BAD SITUATION
MAYBE PARTIAL COLLAPSE YOU KNOW WHATEVER BUT NEVER THE WHOLE THING NO WAY WAS IN CONSTRUCTION MANY
THIS
NO NOBODY HAD ANY IDEA THAT WAS GOING TO
HAPPEN OBVIOUSLY
19

20
JULIAN
BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES THAT CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW ITS APPROXIMATELY 1305
File No. 9110387
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER VINCENT PLOVER
   Interview Date:  December 26, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          BATTALION CHIEF MC GRATH:  The date is
     December 26, 2001.  Is time is 0950 hours, and
     this is Battalion Chief James McGrath of the Fire
     Department of the City of New York.  I'm
     conducting an interview with Vincent Plover,
     regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Vinnie, if you'd please state your name and
your company, and just recount for me the events as
close as you can remember them.
     A.   Vincent Plover, Ladder 85.  I was in
Manhattan working a side job when I heard of the
events, and it was after the second tower was struck
that I decided to respond, so I went to 18th Street to
14 engine and got a turnout coat and pants, and I
responded from there.  I was crossing -- I was on 14th
Street, and I saw the towers were still up.  Both
towers were still up at that point, but I lost sight of
them as I was going -- I was going to the Westside
Highway, and I got up on the Westside Highway, and I
parked about seven blocks away to not interfere with
traffic, and I got out of my truck, and I started
running, and it was then I noticed that there was dust
on the ground.
          The dust increased, and I didn't know what
V. PLOVER
3
the dust was, and then when I was about approximately
one block north of the tower, because I saw people at
the windows -- and so as I stopped, I looked up, and
people had begun jumping from the -- and it was
standing straight up, but not having seen the damage to
the other tower -- a couple more minutes, and see if
there was any change.
          Approximately four minutes later, myself and
the other -- the company that was there and the chief,
we started running north, and at that point I headed
back down to -- toward where the Trade Center parking
lot -- but adjoining the Battery Park City.
          So I joined up with a couple of other guys,
and there was a pumper there, and I started the pumper
and stretched lines, and we cut a hole -- exposed, and
they were -- one would light the other one up, and then
the gas tanks were blowing, so we started putting out
those car fires, and then we got some foam after that.
I ran into Ladder 85.
     Q.   The fellow, from Engine 14, the firefighter
from Engine 14 that you were with, do you have his
name?
     A.   Yes, John Dilillo.  Now, he responded with 14
engine.
Q. Okay.
V. PLOVER
4
     A.   I left him at 14 engine.  He would be better
off staying with his company, so he responded with
them, and he --
     Q.   Also, the chief that --
     A.   I have no idea who he was.
     Q.   Or the company that was there with him?
     A.   I don't know either.  It was just --
     Q.   The name of the firefighter that was under
the car with you?
     A.   No.
     Q.   Do you know what company he was?
     A.   There was a Brooklyn company that I was --
that I was there, and I used to be an engine chauffeur,
so --
     Q.   9 or 3 give any indication as to where they
might be?
     A.   They -- I remember hearing -- but I
understand that they got out.
     Q.   You didn't know where they were?
     A.   No.
     Q.   The radio?  They didn't give a location --
you know might help us.
          BATTALION CHIEF MC GRATH:  Thanks for the
V. PLOVER
5
interview, then.  The time is ten after eight, and
I thank you very much.
     THE WITNESS:  Thank you, Chief.
File No. 9110388
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER PETER FALLUCCA
   Interview Date: December 26, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          BATTALION CHIEF MC GRATH:  The date is
     Wednesday, December 26, 2001.  The time is 1125
     hours.
          This is Battalion Chief James McGrath of the
     Fire Department of City of New York.  I'm
     conducting an interview with Peter Fallucca
     assigned to Engine 16, now working in Engine 153
     in Staten Island.
          It will be regarding the events of September
     11, 2001.
     Q.   Pete, if just say your name and your company,
and then in your own words, kind of relate everything
that you can remember from when you received the alarm
up through the collapses.
     A.   All right.  My name is Peter Fallucca,
assigned to Engine 153 in Staten Island.  On September
11, I was on rotation in Engine 16 in Manhattan.
          Starting right from the very beginning, I was
in the house watch, sitting in the house watch at
quarters of Engine 16.  I heard it come over on the
scanner.  I heard -- I was actually sitting in the
house watch.  I actually heard -- sounded like the
plane flew over our quarters, and I said to myself, I
said, that sounds low for Manhattan for a plane to be
P. FALLUCCA
3
flying so low, and then two seconds later it came over
on the scanner.
          I heard the guy say, "A plane just hit the
World Trade tower.  Send every available ambulance you
got," I heard him say on the scanner.  My lieutenant
came running in.  He said, "Did you hear that?  Did you
hear that?"  I said "Yeah. He said a plane just hit the
trade center," and we knew we were going to get sent in
on that.
          We suited up, and within two minutes, we were
sent on the third alarm.  We were on our way down
there.  We took the FDR Drive, and we could see the
first building that was hit on the FDR Drive, and you
could see an enormous hole in the side of the building
from the FDR Drive, the first building that got hit.
          You could see all the papers flying around
it, all the -- you know, I guess the stationary from
all the offices.  When I first looked, I thought it was
seagulls flying.  There was so many, looked like
seagulls at the dump, and we got down there, and as we
are pulling in, we're getting into the side streets
closer to the trade center, the people were lining the
streets.  All civilians lining the streets, you know,
packed with people.
P. FALLUCCA
4
          I think looking at the map, looked like we
were on Church.  We just were getting ready to pull up,
getting ready to get out, and the second plane hit, and
we started getting hit with debris on the top of the
rig.  We were huddled down in the bottom of the rig,
because -- I mean, we were getting pelted with some
heavy stuff, and at that time I didn't know that it was
a second plane.
          I just thought it was a secondary explosion
from the first building, because I was on the opposite
side.  I was sitting behind the officer, and I couldn't
see really the top of the towers, but the guys that
were on that side of the rig, they were able to see,
and I heard, "Holy, shit!" You know, he screamed,
because he saw this big fireball, and then all the
debris.
          You heard the explosion and everything, but I
saw the big fire ball.  The stuff was coming down
across the street.  It looked like a meteor came flying
across the street.  They said it was the engine.  I
don't know what it was.  It was a big fireball or
something from the plane I guess, came from across the
street in front of our rig, and as we get out of the
rig, there's a cop, city police officer, in the
P. FALLUCCA
5
street.  He's telling us, "I'm getting out of here.  I
just saw a rocket."  He said he saw it come off the
Woolworth Building and hit the tower.
          Now I see the two towers are hit.  He says,
"I just saw a rocket hit that building.  I'm getting
the F out of here.  I'm getting out of here."
          And we were like, holy -- I'm saying to
myself, I didn't even go in yet.  They're shooting
rockets.  I don't know what we're doing over here, but
after I watched it on the news a couple of times, I
could see it was a piece of the plane or something flew
off the building and made like a -- it looked -- if you
didn't see it actually come off the plane, you saw like
the stream of smoke coming from one building to the
other, but actually came from the tower, and they
didn't go the other way, so he swore he saw a rocket,
but at the time we thought it was a rocket.  We
thought -- I thought we were under attack, and we were
under attack, naturally, but I thought we were under
attack in the city.
          You know, I thought guys were in these
buildings with rockets shooting at the building, and we
made our way in.  We got into the lobby of the Tower 1,
the first building that got hit.  That's where we were
P. FALLUCCA
6
called up.
     Q.   So you entered from the courtyard on Church
Street?
     A.   Yeah, we walked through.  It was a -- I don't
know what building it was, but I remember walking
underneath all the scaffolding.  They had the
scaffolding going over the sidewalks.  They must have
been doing work on one of them.
          I remember walking underneath all of that,
and they were telling us, be careful of glass going in,
you know, look up before we go in this building, make
sure there is nothing coming down.  There's all kinds
of glass and debris.
          I remember looking up and seeing people
jumping out, civilians jumping out, you know, and that
was -- that's something to see, and I remembered as we
turned, we got onto West Street, going through the
courtyard we came to the entrance on West Street.  I
could see people jumping out of the second building
that got hit, and you could see them hitting the ground
and stuff.
          I mean, it was a distance, but you could see
it, and we got into the lobby of the first -- the north
tower, and they were just setting up the command post.
P. FALLUCCA
7
I seen them coming in with the briefcase they open up.
I saw the commissioner in there, Von Essen was in the
lobby with us at the time, a couple of chiefs.  I don't
know who they were, and they weren't getting names.
          It wasn't like you see guys shaking hands,
hey, how you doing.  Everybody was very serious because
at this point, we knew we had a problem, and they had
sent us -- I think it was the B stairwell.  We went up
the B stairwell.  They hooked us up with another
company, going up two companies at a time up the
stairwell.
          We took our roll-ups, plus extra bottles and
stuff.  We went up the B stairway, and I think they
were going to send us up the 70th Floor.  They were
looking to establish a communication line.  They had
those phones in the hallways.
Q. Yes.
     A.   That's what they were looking -- our
assignment was, I guess, to set up a communication line
in that stairwell, and we were going up about 10, 12
floors at a time, taking five-minute break.  I mean,
you walking up, and people were coming down one way, we
were going up the other.
          Civilians were coming down one side of the
P. FALLUCCA
8
stairs.  We were going up the other.  You know, it was
very orderly, single file.  Nobody was really
panicking.
     Q.   Do you remember the company that was with
you?
     A.   I think they said it was -- it might have
been Engine 1.  I'm not sure.  I really don't
remember.  I remember talking to the guys after the
fact, and they said it was Engine 1, but I personally
can't be too sure of that.  I don't remember the
company, but I know they sent us up with another
company to go up, and we went up to -- like I said, we
got up to the 10th Floor.  We took a break.
          People were handing us bottles of water going
up, civilians, words of encouragement and all that
stuff, good luck, guys.  We had a few people -- women
crying.  There was a light haze inside the stairwell.
          Before we got in, all the elevators were
crashed down in the lobby, and we were going to the
stairwell.  See all the elevators were crashed down,
big slabs of marble on the floor, all the ceiling tiles
of the dropped ceiling was falling down, wires
hanging.
          You see wires and stuff hanging inside the
P. FALLUCCA
9
elevator shafts, because the doors were blown right off
the elevators.  There was one body inside the lobby.
Looked like his legs were chopped off.  I don't know
where he came from, but he had already had a triage tag
on him.  It was a civilian.  I don't know where he came
from, how he died.  Looked like his clothes were a
little burnt up on him, but his legs were chopped off.
I don't know where he came from, but he had a triage
tag, so somebody must have tagged him before we got
there.
          So I can remember we started making our way
up.  We got up about ten floors, and we'd take a break
and go up another ten floors.  We got up to about the
23rd Floor.  We were inside the hallway taking a break,
and the whole building shakes.  I mean violently, like
earthquake shake.
          Two seconds later the lights go out, and I
hear guys going, oh, shit.  I see guys taking off --
firemen, cops.  Guys are saying, this building is not
supposed to shake like this, and I see guys running
down the stairs, running out of the building, and I
told my boss.
          I said, "I don't know what we're going to
do."  Usually I don't -- I don't -- I just do whatever
P. FALLUCCA
10
the boss tells me, but I was asking him.  We're under
attack.  Is that -- we were on the 23rd Floor.  There
were guys in suits up there on the 23rd Floor.  Guys
were telling me there were -- the CIA's got offices on
the 23rd Floor.  I don't know who, but it could have
been building super.  They had a lot of information,
these guys were giving us.
          They had told us that the Pentagon was hit.
This was while we were sitting on the 23rd Floor.  The
Pentagon is hit.  They hit another place in
Washington.  They shot a plane down, and as we were on
the 23rd Floor taking a break, they telling us,
fellows, we just got a report of a third plane headed
this way, so when the building shook, like that, I
figured we got hit with another plane, but we found out
later that was the first building, Tower 2.  That was
the one that was collapsed, so that's what we found
out.  That's what that was.
          And the lights went out, and I was saying --
to me it seemed like about five minutes.  I heard on
the radio Mayday, to get out.  Everybody out of the
building.  All personnel out of the building, and I
started -- I just started coming down, and I lost my
lieutenant.  I couldn't find my lieutenant.
P. FALLUCCA
11
          One of the guys I think in our unit, he went
down before they gave the order to go down.  The only
one I had with me was -- one of the 14 probies was with
me.  It was me and him, and we were looking for the
lieutenant, calling the lieutenant on the radio.
Couldn't find him.  He wasn't answering me.  I was
yelling up the stairs.
          We went down four floors at a time, and we
waited.  I waited for him to go down, and then we got
down to the lobby, and I waited for him.  He still
never came down.  I was calling him on the radio, and
then I saw one of the other guys in our unit, the
senior guy.  He's got about 17, 18 years on the job.  I
told the probie,"Sean," I said, "Let's follow Timmy."
I said, "Let's regroup with him, see what he wants to
do."
          He was helping carry a woman with a couple of
other guys in a chair downstairs, so we walked with
him.  We helped him carry the chair, put the woman in
the ambulance, and it was the three of us together --
me, Timmy Marmion, Sean Brown, together.
          We walked down to -- I guess we got down to
about -- it was the first block.  We got down to Vesey
Street.  It was the first block.  Yeah, Vesey.  We had
P. FALLUCCA
12
to be on Vesey, and I took my tank off, because I
figured now I'm clear of all this debris falling down.
I said "We're out.  We're not going back in any more
till we regroup any way."
          And there was an EMT walking down the
street.  He was carrying a chief.  The chief was
bleeding from the head, and Sean Brown called me.  He
said he grabbed the other shoulder of the chief, and he
helped carry the chief to the ambulance.  I told Sean,
"Make sure you come back here.  Meet back here.  This
way all three of us are together," because we didn't
know.
          The chauffeur was still out on the street
somewhere.  We didn't know where our chauffeur was.
The lieutenant, we had no idea where he was.  As far as
we now knew, he was still in the building, and one
other guy was missing.  Let me see.
          He starts walking with the chief to get him
in the ambulance.  Me and Timmy were standing right
under.  We just took our tanks off and our jackets off,
and that's when the second building came down.  It came
down right behind us.
          So now we started running down West Street
towards Stuyvesant High School.  Take a peek behind.
P. FALLUCCA
13
You could see this black cloud coming behind you.  You
couldn't out run it, and you get caught in that black,
and I felt like the push, you know, from this black
cloud, and I got myself to the first building before
Stuyvesant High School, and I seen guys go inside
there, and I made the turn around the building, and I
went inside that building, because, I mean, you
couldn't see your hand in front of your face.
          I was feeling the wall of the building to
feel my way into the building, and we went inside the
building.  We looked outside the window.  It looked
like midnight at ten o'clock in the morning.
          And then as it settled, we came out, and we
were trying to regroup with the guys.  We found Sean
again, who helped the chief into an ambulance, and it
was just the three of us for awhile, and we wound up
finding our chauffeur, and then we wound up getting --
we had everybody together except for the officer.  The
officer wound up still being in the building.
          He was with Ladder 6 on the 4th Floor.  He
survived.  He was in the building, and we tried -- we
asked the chief.  They wouldn't let us go back in.
Once we were out, they said, "You guys were in there
already.  You're not going back in."  They wouldn't let
P. FALLUCCA
14
us go back in because we were looking, you know, both
buildings had went down at this point, and we were
going to see if we could pull people out, find anybody
still that was alive, and they wouldn't let us go back
in.  They said, "You guys are done."
          So we sat around, and one of the other guys
had something in his eye.  As you're sitting there, you
feel -- a burning in my chest.  I had mud caked up in
my mouth from inhaling all this stuff.  I mean, I ate
it, never mind inhaled it, and guys came over, anybody
want to go to the hospital, get checked out.
          So the guy who had scratches, he said he was
going.  I said, you know what, they're not letting us
go back in.  Let me go get checked out.
          And I went -- they took me to St.
Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital and checked me out, and they
sent me back to my house a few hours later, and I
stayed at the firehouse answering phones.
     Q.   Just a few questions.
          You mentioned that your officer was with
Ladder 6, and that you had a radio on.
          Did you hear any of the transmissions from
Ladder 6?
     A.   No, I didn't hear anything from Ladder 6, but
P. FALLUCCA
15
on my way down, I heard one transmission that I do
remember was from Rescue 1.  I heard the boss from
Rescue 1 telling all Rescue 1 members, meet up on the
40 floor.
          When I was going -- that was when they gave
the order to get out.  I was on my way down.  I don't
know what floor I was on when I heard it, but it was
fairly high.  Had to be like in the high teens, maybe
20th Floor, just as I was starting to go down.
          They were telling us to go down, and I heard
Rescue 1 say to meet up, all rescue one members meet up
on the 40th Floor, and I know all those guys are no
longer with us any more, so they were somewhere headed
to the 40th Floor, I would imagine, those guys.
Q. As far as --
     A.   I heard Maydays given for guys -- guys -- I
heard of guys passing out.  Still missing members I
heard.  This is before anything had collapsed.
     Q.   Can you remember any specifics, any specific
companies?
     A.   No, I remember hearing that they found the
boss from Engine 1.  I remember hearing, found an
officer from Engine 1, possibly DOA.  I remember
hearing that on the radio, but the only real one I can
P. FALLUCCA
16
remember where guys were going was Rescue 1.  I heard
them say meet up on the 40th Floor.  I heard that
transmission for Rescue 1.
     Q.   And the highest floor that your company,
Engine 16 got to, was the 23rd?
     A.   23rd Floor.  And we were going to go higher,
but at that time they had ordered us out, and we went
down.  Like I said, I lost -- I mean, there was at that
point, there was mass chaos.  Guys were going up, guys
were going down.
          My officer, I don't know if he went on one of
the floors, but however -- he wound up on the 4th
Floor.  When I was coming down, I never saw him.  I
wound up seeing an officer from 65 engine -- like I
know those guys, because you get detailed in the same
battalion, and I asked him.
          I said, "Did you see Lieutenant Cross?"
Lieutenant Cross was my lieutenant that day.  I said,
"Did you see Lieutenant Cross?"  And he said, "Yeah, I
saw him.  He's on his way down."  He even told me they
want everybody out of the building.  Start heading
down.  I said, "Are you sure you saw him go down?"
Because I thought maybe this guy is looking for me.  I
don't want this guy to get killed looking for me.
P. FALLUCCA
17
          And he said, "No, I saw him.  He's on his way
down," and I said, "You sure?"  He said, "Yeah, he's on
his way down.  Come on, let's start going down."  That
was Piambino from 65 engine.  He told me that.  So I
said all right.
          I went down to the lobby, and I was standing
in the lobby.  At that point, the lobby was a ghost
town.  There was nobody in the lobby.  There was no
more command center in the lobby.  There was nothing.
          Every window in the place on the bottom floor
was broken.  When we first got there, just the windows
when we went in there were broken, but the windows in
the back of the lobby were -- there wasn't a window in
the bottom of the lobby, and it was empty, the lobby.
I didn't see anybody, and, I mean, you just had the
guys -- trails of guys, dribs and drabs of guys coming
down the stairways coming out of the building.  That
was it.
          I mean, I saw all these guys.  I remember
seeing all the rigs in front of the building.  There
were rugs underneath that north bridge, because when I
got -- we put the woman in the ambulance, when we came
out, the ambulance was parked under the north bridge.
I don't know if they ever made it out alive or not, if
P. FALLUCCA
18
they survived or not.
     Q.   Do you remember any of the companies that
were parked under there?
     A.   I remember seeing -- when we were going in, I
remember seeing 6 truck, because I remember seeing
them -- they got the tiller rig with the dragon on it,
and a friend of mine that I worked with over here, he
had just transferred to 6 truck.  He was working that
day at 6 truck, and I remember seeing Squad 18 going
in.
          Who else?  I remember seeing 6 truck going in
when we first went in.  They were parked right in front
just past the north bridge.
     Q.   As people were exiting the building with you,
was everybody going north or were some going south?
     A.   I think people were going any which way they
could get out pretty much, and then we got out, and we
went north because we had the woman.  I followed Timmy
at that point.  I was following the senior guy in the
engine at that point.
          I couldn't find the lieutenant, so I said
let's go with him.  You know what I mean?  I got two
years on the job.  I figured he's the best shot.  I
don't know whatever he wanted to do.  I mean, if he
P. FALLUCCA
19
would have said, come on, we're going back in the
building, I probably would have went back in the
building.
          I was just at that point -- I was lost, to be
honest.  I didn't know what to do.  We left our
roll-ups and our -- I had the standpipe position at
that point, and I left all that up on the 23rd Floor.
I just took my tank with me.
          When they told us to get out, that was our
only order.  I didn't know what to do.  I knew we
weren't going to put a fire out over there.  It was
roaring.  You could see from the FDR.  You could see
the thing was going, thick, black smoke.  You could see
floors of fire.  I mean, you see it on the news.  You
could see the whole thing was burning.
          We went with him, and that's where it pretty
much ended for us until I got caught in that cloud of
debris when it hit, that cloud, you know, blowing all
over the place, but that was it.
     Q.   Is there anything else that you can think of
that might be pertinent?
     A.   When I came out, all the people that I saw in
the lobby, I remember seeing a guy filming in the
lobby.  There was a guy with a video camera in the
P. FALLUCCA
20
lobby filming.
     Q.   Fireman?  Civilian?
     A.   He look like -- you know, might have been a
light-duty guy.  He looked like he had a firemen
uniform, but he didn't have bunker gear on.  He just
had the coat on and blue pants.  It looked like a
fireman, but it didn't look like -- he wasn't
wearing -- he didn't have bunker gear on, and he wasn't
wearing a helmet.  Just he had a camera, and I remember
him filming with a camera, and it wasn't like the
amateur ones.  It looked like a professional looking
camera that he had.
          I remember guys -- when we got out, I had
heard that the other building collapsed, but I didn't
know the extent of the collapse.  I thought maybe it
was a partial collapse, part of it broke off, floors
collapsed, and I can remember coming out and seeing,
you know, the ribs to the towers sticking in the
street, but the front of West Street in front of the
north tower was clear.
          I walked out and didn't have a problem.
There was nothing in my way to walk out.  Just that
layer of powder in the street, four to six inches of
powder, that dust or whatever it was, papers and stuff
P. FALLUCCA
21
like that in the street.  That was it.
          When you see people coming -- like I said,
everybody was coming down.  There were firemen coming
down when I came down, but nothing that I can remember
vividly.
          Even all the civilians, I only remember one
civilian because I saw him on the news.  He was the
blind guy with the dog.  That is the only one -- if I
had to pick somebody out of a lineup, I could probably
pick that guy out of the lineup, because I remember
petting the dog on the way up.  He said the seeing-eye
dog coming down the stairs.
          That's the only guy, but otherwise, I can't
remember too much faces.  Two years on the job, you
don't know that many people.  I was on the rotation.  I
was only there just under a year, so I recognized the
guys that were in the battalion, you know, cause you
get detailed, but the rescue, I did hear that
transmission about the rescue, and I remember hearing
the transmission about finding the officer from Engine
1, but that was it.
          I remember seeing some people jumping and
pretty much...
          BATTALION CHIEF MC GRATH:  I want to thank
P. FALLUCCA
22
you very much for the interview.  I'm sure some of
the information will be very, very helpful.
     The time is 11:46.  This interview took place
in the quarters of Engine 153 in Staten Island.
File No. 9110389
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
 SUPERVISING FIRE MARSHAL JOHN D. LYNN
   Interview Date:  December 27, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
J. LYNN
2
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Today's date is
December 27th, 2001.  The time is 3:24 p.m.  I'm
Battalion Chief Robert Burns, Safety Battalion, New
York City Fire Department, conducting an interview
with...
          SUPERVISING FIRE MARSHAL LYNN:  Dave Lynn,
Supervising Fire Marshal, Shield No. 66, assigned to
Brooklyn Bureau of Fire Investigation.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  This interview is in
regards to the events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Dave, if you would, just tell us in your own
words what happened that day.
     A.   On September 11th, I was working a day tour
and my attention was drawn to the situation via the
Department radio when I heard some kind of transmission
asking the dispatcher, send me every ambulance you
got.  The phone started ringing and my Chief had the
entire day tour respond over to the World Trade
Center.
          We drove over.  I drove over, myself, and I
had three members of my squad also drive over.  We came
through the tunnel, went through the tunnel, and it was
sometime while I was in the tunnel that the second
plane had hit.  So I exited the tunnel.  I parked soon
J. LYNN
3
thereafter on West Street, geared up and walked along
West Street, where I noticed landing gear and the
evidence of some kind of explosion.
          I continued up West Street toward the Trade
Center and I saw my Chief, Richard McCahey, off to the
left on the west side of West Street.  He waved me
over.  I came over with two or three of my guys, and he
advised us that we were going to just stage there for a
couple of minutes until we worked up some kind of game
plan.  We were there not very long trying sort of to
size up, seeing how we were going to proceed, planning
on how we were going to set up a perimeter, looking for
like secondary devices, because at that time it was
obviously a terrorist situation, terrorist attack, and
so we were looking for trucks that might have parked,
moved into the area and that kind of thing.
          It's hard to deal with the time frame, but it
seems as if suddenly there was a -- our attention was
drawn to the south tower.  There was some kind of
explosion, you might say, up in the area where the fire
was.  Actually, in hindsight, that was the start of the
collapse.
          Now, we were very close at that time.  We
were up on West Street toward Liberty, very close to
J. LYNN
4
the hotel but on the west side of the street.  So
immediately, from my point of view, I knew that we were
much, much too close, and we just started running.
There was a group of us there, all Marshals.  We just
started running south on West Street to the corner, and
there were a lot of people running and a lot of people
bumping into each other at that corner and it was like
a pileup of whoever was passing by, which slowed us all
up.
          As soon as I made the turn, I jumped in
behind some van.  It was like the second car off West
Street going toward the river.  I dove in behind the
van, and it was on us already, you know, the noise and
like a pressure wave, like a wind, and the dust cloud.
Immediately I recognized that I couldn't breathe.  I
was slightly winded, I guess, from running.  So,
breathing deeply, I took in a lot of dust and realized
that breathing was going to be a problem, and vision,
because we were sort of blasted then, I got a lot of
debris in my eyes.
          So I stayed there behind the van for a
while.  At some point one or two people dove in behind
the van.  I couldn't see what was going on, but here
one of them was wearing a mask, obviously Fire
J. LYNN
5
Department.  Then he and I sort of exchanged -- you
know, gave each other moral support.  You okay?  Yeah,
I'm okay.  Are you okay?  That kind of thing.
          The dust started to settle and I looked over
to the guy next to me and it turns out to be Chief
Cruthers, and we just sort of got up and tried to size
up what was happening.  You could see.  Visibility
started to clear up a little bit.
          Some fireman came walking by.  He was
bleeding from the head but said he was fine.  Myself
and Cruthers gave him a quick look and he just had some
sort of a minor head laceration.  He said he was fine.
He walked off.  A couple civilians came running by.  We
directed them toward the river.
          I remember hearing off -- I lost my radio, my
cell phone, in the rush, and I couldn't find it on the
ground.  The ground was covered with debris.  I heard
one Mayday on Chief Cruthers' radio.  So his attention
was immediately drawn to the radio and then he started
to walk off.  He walked to West and then up toward the
tower.  At that point, I didn't see Cruthers again.
          I went to the corner and I looked up West
Street and it just looked impassable to get to that
tower because I was going to head up that way toward
J. LYNN
6
the command post.  So I went down the side street
toward the river.  There were a lot of civilians going
down that way.
          When I got down to where it started to clear
up, there were crowds down there on the river.  There
were some people down there injured.  There were some
it seemed to be volunteer ambulance people.  So I got
involved in a little bit of assisting there.  There
were boats, tugboats pulling up to the river.  People
were climbing over the railing jumping onto these
boats.  So there were some cops down there.  There were
also some firemen.  We were also trying to assist with
that situation.
          That eased up a little bit, and then I
started to walk down, I guess, north on that river
path, and I was headed up because we had another
command post on the other side, I was informed, I was
told.  Then, as I took a turn on a side street, I guess
that might have been Liberty Street, to go back up
toward West, toward the towers, that's when the second
tower came down.  But I was a good distance away from
it, so you could see it coming, there was plenty of
time to take cover, but there was still that dust
cloud.
J. LYNN
7
          Then I made my way into some building that
was right there and got on a phone because I had lost
my cell phone, I had lost my radio, and I got on a
phone to try to find out where we were going to
regroup.  I called my headquarters.  I eventually got
someone at headquarters and I was told that we were
regrouping down by Battery Park, by the old marine, the
Fire Department's marine facility there.
          But in that building where I had looked for
the phone, there were a number of people that had taken
shelter there and there seemed to be a lot of -- they
were mostly civilians, a lot of women with babies, with
children, and there were some EMS people in there
assisting.  They were making a plan to evacuate these
people on some boat that was about to pull up.  So I
assisted people getting on that boat, and then I walked
along the river to Battery Park, where there were a
number of Marshals that had regrouped.
          We were trying to get a head count to
determine who was missing.  We determined that at least
one of our guys was missing.  We worked up some kind of
game plan where we would -- we were told by my Chief, I
guess, who was at the command post, that we were going
to try to locate or determine exactly who was where as
J. LYNN
8
to like what companies might have been where to assist
in the or to streamline the digging or recovery
process.
          Then at some point later, I got involved in
the arrest of some Saudi Arabian guy who was wearing
stolen bunker gear, and that went for several hours
into the night with the Terrorist Task Force.
          That's about it in a nutshell.  I don't
remember seeing -- I worked at the morgue, so I pretty
much know everyone who was missing, reported missing.
I don't remember seeing any of those guys at the
scene.  So I have no information to offer as far as who
might have been operating where.
          BATTALION CHIEF BURNS:  Okay.  Thank you very
much for the interview.  The time is 3:36 p.m.
File No. 9110390
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         LIEUTENANT JAMES FODY
       Interview Date:  12/26/01
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN:  The time is 1453
     hours.  This is Battalion Chief John Malkin of the
     safety battalion.
          I am conducting an interview today with
     Captain James Fody, F-O-D-Y, covering in Engine
     Company No. 6, regarding the events of September
     11.
     Q.   What follows is the interview with Captain
Fody?
     A.   On the 11th, I was assigned -- I was a
lieutenant at the time, assigned to Engine Company 7,
located on Duane street, about seven or eight blocks
from the trade center.
          I was working that day.  I had worked the
night before.  I was working that day on overtime in
Engine Company 9 on Canal Street.  I was only there
about ten or fifteen minutes.  One of my members was
out in front of quarters and witnessed the plane come
over the city and witnessed the plane hit the
building.
          Right after that, he came in, informed us an
airliner had just struck the World Trade Center tower.
I went outside and -- not that I didn't believe him,
but somebody tells you something like that, you say,
J. FODY
3
oh, well, you think you saw it, or -- take a look.
          So I went outside, and we looked in the
direction of the towers, and you could see flames and
smoke emanating from the area of the trade center.  So
we went back inside, and we turned out the company.
          Engine 9 is a satellite.  The day crew was
already in.  I took one member from the night crew as
an extra chauffeur to drive the second section of the
satellite, and we responded to the trade center.
          Ladder 6 is also quartered with Engine 9, and
they also responded.  Captain Jonas was working.  We
arrived within, I would say, six or seven minutes.  I
had the chauffeurs position the rigs on West Street and
Vesey, which would be the northwest corner of the north
tower, Tower 1.
          Myself and the three other firefighters
entered the lobby.  We took roll-ups.  We took extra
Scott cylinders.  I also took a search rope, and I took
the oxygen.  The members asked me what else should we
take.  I said, "Give me the oxygen.  Maybe we can use
that."
          And we went in.  We reported to Chief Hayden,
who had set up a command post.  He advised us to just
try to pair up with another engine company.  I went to
J. FODY
4
the command board.  They paired us up with Engine 15.
Engine 15 I believe at that time had already entered
the stairway, the B stairway, so I reported in to the
board.  They took down the information, and at the time
we entered the B stairway, and we started up the B
stairway.
          It was a little bit crowded getting into the
stairway, but we were able to get into the stairway.
Civilians were coming down, and Fire Department units
were headed up.  The stairway was quite orderly at this
time.  Pretty much it was only room for two rows of
people.  Civilians were coming down one side.  Fire
Department was headed up the other side.
          I told the members we are going to have to
pace ourselves.  Every five floors, we'll take a quick
break just to catch our breath, make sure everybody is
still together.  We took a break on five, very short.
We continued up.
          I got a little bit ahead of them.  At one
point there, there was, I believe, a Port Authority
detective behind me, who asked me two or three times,
"Let me carry something.  Let me carry something,"
because he saw -- so finally, I said, "All right, take
the oxygen," and I told him what it was.  In case we
J. FODY
5
get separated if he can use it, that's what it is.
          Somewhere around the 10th Floor, a little bit
above the 10th Floor, I was a little bit ahead of the
members, and Captain Jonas gave a Mayday for a member
of Engine 9 with chest pains, so I turned around to see
they weren't right behind me, and I had to go down
about a flight or two, and I found one of my members.
          You want names, of course.
     Q.   Yes.
     A.   The member was Ray Hayden.  He's assigned to
Engine 9, and I believe he was either crouching or
sitting on the landing probably around the 10th Floor
and was in some distress.  So we helped him onto the
floor, the 10th Floor, and after a minute to two, he
insisted he was all right.  "I'm okay.  I want to
continue .  I want to continue."
          We took a little bit time longer to assess
his condition.  We took his pulse.  We looked at him.
He seemed to be all right.  We rested a few more
minutes, and then we continued on.
          We continued on about the 20th Floor.  We
took another quick break, went in on the floor to catch
our breath.  As we were picking up our gear again,
getting ready to go up again, the building began to
J. FODY
6
shake and sway, and I believe at this time the lights
went out, you know, with all that going on.
          We didn't know it at the time, but this was,
in fact, the south tower collapsing.  We just kind of
stayed there for a minute to see what was going on.
Within a minute or two, I heard a transmission on the
radio that the 66th Floor had collapsed.  It had
collapsed into 65, but the building felt sound at this
time.  We continued on.
          So from 20, we continued up maybe two more
flights, somewhere between 22 and 23.  We encountered
Fire Department members coming down the stairs still in
the B stairway, and they told us, "We are getting out.
We're evacuating the building."
          The order had been given.  I didn't hear the
order on the radio.  I found out later on that it was
given by Chief Pfeifer, the first battalion.  They were
in the lobby when the other building fell, and he had
given that order.  He may have given it on the command
channel.  That's why we didn't hear it.
          So we left the roll-ups.  We left the spare
bottles just in order to evacuate quicker.  Going down
the stairs, it was again quite orderly.  There were
almost no civilians that we encountered.  We did have
J. FODY
7
to stop probably four or five times to allow other
members to come in from floors or civilians -- the few
civilians that were left coming in from the floors, but
it was orderly.
          Made it down to the lobby, exited the
stairways, and the lobby at this point was pretty much
empty.  There weren't too many people in the lobby.  I
did encounter a lieutenant from Engine 212.  He came up
to me and said, "I may need your help.  I can't find
any of my guys."  So I said okay.
          There was still one guy -- I wasn't sure of
where one of my guys was, one of the chauffeurs.  I
didn't know if he had come in the building or he was
still outside.  I said, "Let me get all my guys
together, and I'm going to come back, and we'll help
you search for your guys."  I knew that he was from
Brooklyn.  He probably wasn't familiar with the complex
there.  I had been there, from being -- usually we're
second or third due at the towers.  I was a little bit
more familiar about where we might be able to look for
them.
          We exited the lobby.  We went past where the
command center was, which -- there were no more chiefs
there.  They had all moved, I think across West
J. FODY
8
Street.  We went out onto West Street through the
windows, which had been blown out from the south tower
collapsing, and we turned north on West Street, mainly
just because we were headed towards where the rigs
were.
          We got a little bit past, I believe, Vesey
Street, which is the first street north of the north
tower.  We were in the middle of the street near the
divider.  We removed our masks and catching our breath
trying to -- it was overheated and trying to catch our
breath.
          Within about two minutes of us being there,
the north tower began to collapse, and we turned, and
we looked, and we could see it was starting to come
down.  Somebody nearby me yelled, "It's coming down,"
which drew my attention it to, that plus the roar, so I
just said to the guys, "Let's just run north.  You
know, just go this way."
          Started heading up north, away from, because
I knew we were too close, and would it collapse.  At
this point, I didn't know how far away we were going to
get, whether the debris was going to hit us or not.  I
would say we ran -- I ran maybe 10 or 15 seconds before
I looked over my shoulder, and you could see the dust
J. FODY
9
cloud of debris and determined we couldn't out run it,
so I'm not sure if I yelled to guys to try to take
cover or I just motioned to them.  I really couldn't
see them that well.  At this point, it was obviously
chaos.
          I had in my mind to try to get behind
something, because I didn't know what was going to be
in this debris cloud.  I didn't know if there was going
hot steel rolling down the street or fire ball, or
shock wave, whatever.
          I ran a little bit further, and I came to a
Fire Department suburban parked perpendicular to West
Street and just dove behind that, and within a second
or two, the blast from the collapse hit the rig.
          The street went completely dark.  Very
difficult to breathe.  I was covered with dust and
soot, and the concussion blast actually rocked the
vehicle that we were leaning against.  Probably three
or four other members also dove behind the same
vehicle.  One landed on top of me, and one landed next
to me, and we just stayed there until it settled down
and we could see and breathe again.
          I was kind of on the bottom of the pile, so I
was trying to get somebody else who was there to see,
J. FODY
10
because I didn't know how long it was going to be like
this, see if there was a mask available inside the
rig.  It was a chief's car.  Maybe there might be a
mask there.  We weren't able to get into the
apparatus.
          When things started to settle, I got up, and
I looked around.  It took me awhile to find everybody
again that was in my unit.  The time frame is -- I kind
of lost it, to give you the time frame, because things
I thought took five minutes may have taken an hour and
vice versa.  We probably took close to an hour to
assemble everybody, find the other chauffeurs, and
eventually we reassembled.
          We moved further north up West Street, got
together.  I was kind of just waiting to see if there
were any chiefs that were going to give orders or
establish an assembly point.  There really wasn't much
of that going on yet.  What we did hear within probably
a another half hour or so, maybe twenty minutes,
transmissions from Ladder Company 6, who was trapped in
the building after the collapse, but they were still --
eventually they all made it out, of course, but being
with members who were quartered with them, they wanted
to go see what they could do for them.
J. FODY
11
          There really wasn't much we could do.  It was
a pile.  We heard over the next half hour, hour or so,
transmissions back and forth from Captain Jonas about
their location, and Chief Blaich trying to figure out
where they were.  They knew where they were.  They were
in the B stairway, but there was --
     Q.   When you look at the pile, where was the B
stairway?  So how to locate them -- how did that go?
What mechanism would you use?
     A.   And just, you know, trying to climb over the
pile at this point, seeing if it was -- eventually, we
were able to get the pumper going.  It was supplied, I
think, by a relay from the boat, fire boat, on the
river, supplied it, and somebody found access to the B
stairway through the parking garage.
          There was an entrance on Vesey Street, and we
attempted to stretch a line through there to reach them
from the bottom, but it was too much debris.  It was
completely packed with debris from the bottom.  Must
have taken three or four hours, and they extricated
themselves from -- I know they were trapped with 39
engine, and 39 engine also got out, along with a Chief
Picciotto was also with them.  They were in
communications.
J. FODY
12
          There was also a chief there that didn't make
it, Chief Prunty, I believe.  He had covered down by
us, s I knew him.  I didn't know that he was with them
at the time.  I didn't find that out till later, but I
know that he was communicating with 39 engine before he
succumbed.
          I'm trying to get the time frame right.
After that, we were there quite late.  We were there
until about nine or ten o'clock at night, and
eventually we got the rig.  The rig was damaged, but
drivable, and the members of -- myself and the other
members of 9 returned to Canal Street, quarters at
Canal Street along with a few other members, and I
couldn't tell you what companies they were from.
          After that, I went home.  I returned after --
about midnight, I returned to my quarters, Engine 7,
spent the night there, and the next day I went -- I
went home to see my family in the early hours of the
next day between nine and twelve, and I went back that
night.  I spent the next three or four days, just
whenever we could get down to the pile and --
     Q.   Everybody got out okay from 9?
     A.   Everybody in 9 engine survived.  Everybody
from 6 engine -- I mean 6 truck survived, miraculously,
J. FODY
13
and everybody from 7 and 1, where I was assigned,
survived.
     Q.   Unbelievable.
     A.   Unbelievable, yeah.  I know 7 made it up as
high as the about the 30th Floor, 30 or 31 with --
Captain Tardio was working.  I think he had three guys
with him.
     Q.   The intention of the chiefs giving the orders
more or less to engine companies initially was take
your roll-ups, and you were going to fight the fire.
Pretty much that's the way it looked, right?
A. Yeah.
     Q.   In the initial stages, that was basically the
intent, right?
     A.   They were basically, I would assume, treating
it as a high-rise fire.
     Q.   As a high-rise fire, yeah.
     A.   A big fire.  My thoughts going up the stairs
was I didn't know if we were going to put it out.
Q. Right.
     A.   But I assumed that we could get close enough
that, you know, people were trapped, and we had to
extinguish fire to get to them, or to keep a stairway
clear or --
J. FODY
14
     Q.   What would you say the chances of getting to
the 85th Floor, the 86th Floor, with these roll-ups,
the bunker gear, a mask, an extra bottle, without the
elevators?  What are our chances?
     A.   Looking back now, practically zero.  If the
building -- and I couldn't -- I don't think you could
find a person there that day that thought the building
was going to come down.
     Q.   Right.
     A.   You probably heard that.
     Q.   Absolutely.
     A.   You probably won't hear anybody say that they
really thought they weren't going to go in because it
was going to come down.  That was it was the furthest
thought from their mind.
          At one point, I figured we'll get as close as
we can get.  When we reach the point of exhaustion,
maybe other companies coming in would be able to come
up with only their bunker gear and pick up the roll-ups
and continue, pick up the roll-ups and maybe even our
masks, and be able to continue, or if we got close
enough to fight the fire, they would be behind us, but
it was going to be -- as it went on, it was going to be
more of just a rescue evacuation and not really
J. FODY
15
fighting fire.
     Q.   When you were in the lobby, did you notice
the elevators, what the condition of the elevators
was?
          Was there any fire in the elevator shafts?
Did you notice the elevator to any extent?
     A.   I didn't see fire in the elevator shafts.
There was a good deal of soot, like a white soot all
through the lobby.  A couple of the doors of the
elevators were buckled, so there was some kind of
explosion or fire in there.  There were -- in the
vestibule between the outer doors and the inner doors,
there were two civilian bodies burned.  There was
nothing we could do for them at that point, you know.
I assumed something came down and just burned them.
They might have been in the elevator or near the
elevator and stumbled as far as they got.
          I heard reports that there was one elevator
working that some guys used.  There were no elevators
by the time we got there.  All the elevators were out.
It was one of the first things that was established.
Elevators were not working.
          If we were going to do anything, we were
going to go from the stairs.  That's pretty much it.
J. FODY
16
     BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN:  That's pretty much
it.
     I thank Captain Fody for this interview.
This concludes the interview and it's 1511 hours,
and that's it.
File No. 9110391
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER EDWARD MECNER
   Interview Date: December 26, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
E. MECNER 2
          CHIEF MALKIN:  It's 1609 hours.  This
     is Battalion Chief Malkin of the Safety
     Battalion.  I'm conducting an interview at
     this time with fireman first grade Edward
     Mecner, Engine 5.  The interview concerns
     the events of September 11th, 2001.  We are
     in the office at Engine 5.  There is nobody
     else in the office.  What follows now is the
     interview.
     A.   I was getting off a 24.  I worked
Monday morning a tour, and I was on mutual I
think Monday night.  I was supposed to be getting
off Tuesday morning at about 8:20 or 8:15 --
maybe about 8:00 Lieutenant Mitchell asked if
there's a bagel shop.  We got some bagels; we sat
down.
          Approximately 8:30 we got a run.
Lieutenant Paul Mitchell was relieved, as was
Firefighter Burnside from Ladder 20.  They had
early relief.  Someone came in already.  We
responded to a run at 8:30 on Irving Place and
19th Street.
          I think it was a 10-33, smoke in the
area, some general false alarm or something.
E. MECNER 3
From there we were directed -- they said that
there was an explosion at the Trade Center.  We
were directed to go directly there.
          I was the chauffeur that day.  I
started driving up 14th Street.  I was going to
turn left on Broadway.  The member who ended up
being missing, Firefighter Delvalle, said to take
the west side.  So I continued up 14th Street.
          As we approached Sixth Avenue when you
look south, you could see a big cloud of smoke,
and at every big intersection, Seventh Avenue and
Eighth Avenue, so forth, going West down 14th
Street, you could see a big plume of smoke.  So
we knew this was something very serious.
          We got on the west side, and we made it
down in the general area of downtown Manhattan
and the Trade Center area.  We parked the rig on
West Street maybe three blocks north of Vesey.
There were other rigs there, so we couldn't
really get much further.
          The members of Engine 5 grabbed their
rollups and irons, extra cylinders, which is
procedure for a high-rise fire, and they
proceeded down West Street going towards the
E. MECNER 4
north tower.
          At that point I put my gear on out of
the chauffeur's compartment.  I grabbed a spare
set of irons.  I went down and I saw a chauffeur
from 15 Engine and asked if he needed any help.
He was on West and I think Vesey Street.  He said
he's okay.  All the chauffeurs seemed to be okay.
          So I caught up with Engine 5, and we
proceeded up I think stairway A.  On
approximately the third floor, someone said to go
over and cross over to stairway C, that there's
not as many people coming down the stairs, it
will be easier to make our way up.
          We did that on about the third floor.
We headed up to the tenth floor.  I think we took
a short break.  We went up, and we stopped on the
13th floor while everybody stopped and took a
rest on 13.  There was a water cylinder, and we
all took a drink of water.  Everybody said we're
ready to go up again, so we started going up.
Wemadeitasfaras19. Oneofour members, Derek Brogan, started complaining of chest pains. We stopped at 19 and rested a moment. He said he felt better. We made our way
E. MECNER 5
up to approximately the 23rd floor, where we
stopped again.  He started having recurrent chest
pains.
          That's where I also saw some members of
Engine 10 that I knew by name and a couple
members of Ladder 9.  One of them was also having
some difficulty breathing and chest pains.
          Also at that point I guess someone
called for Port Authority ESU.  I guess the ESU
Port Authority guys brought up some oxygen, and I
believe they gave it to Don Casey of 9 Truck, who
I saw.  I saw Bruce Springstead from 9 Truck.
Engine 10 members, I saw Mitch Castiglione and
another member, I can't remember his name, all
who made it out of the building, because I saw
them later on.
          While we were on the 23rd floor, at one
point I took off Don Casey's coat.  I saw that he
was having a hard time breathing.  Derek's coat
we took off, his turnout, because he was having
the chest pains.  I figured just to get the heat
off him.  It was pretty hot carrying all the
stuff up.  We found some water.
          Then within a minute or two, it sounded
E. MECNER 6
like a missile was about to come through the
windows, I guess maybe on every floor, but it
sounded like it was going to come right through
the 23rd floor.  Everyone automatically just hit
the deck, like you do in a war movie.
          We heard a crash and the ground
shaking, and everybody kind of like -- when we
realized we were okay, everybody kind of got up
and were wondering what was going on.
          In a minute or two -- there was an
order to evacuate.  I don't know who gave the
order.  It was a verbal order.  It wasn't over
the radio.  I didn't have my radio at that point.
     Q.   Where was your radio?
A. IleftitontherigwhenIwas changing into my gear. I just put it there. In a hurry to catch up with the rest of Engine 5, I left it in the rig. I believe later on Richie Carletti, who came with Tom Lynn from Engine 5, they found 5 Engine and they saw my radio and he knew when he saw the radio and that the chauffeur's compartment was empty that I went in also.
          At that point after the crash and the
E. MECNER 7
evacuate order, we began to descend the stairs.
At about the fourth floor, there was a blockage.
They couldn't make it across.  Someone said to
follow him, go across back to stairway A, I
believe it was.
          We crossed the hallway on maybe the
fourth floor or third, something like that, to
stairway A.  We got down to the lobby level.
Lieutenant Bohack was there, Derek Brogan, Jimmy
Andruzzi and myself.
          Now we were looking for Gerard Gorman,
who was on the 23rd floor.  We saw him with us,
and he didn't come down.  We waited about a
minute, and Lieutenant Bohack gave us an order to
get out of the building.
          We headed out on the west side towards
West Street.  There was either a construction
worker or ironworker waving us out of the
building, constantly looking up, ready to run at
any second to get out of the building.  So we
didn't look up.  We just ran towards West Street
and where we had Engine 5 parked.  So we ran in
that direction.
          (Interruption.)
E. MECNER 8
     A.   At that point we walked up towards the
rig, and then I believe they said to start
running because the building was coming down.  So
we ran again towards the rig.  I guess the south
tower fell at that point.  Maybe it already fell.
I'm not sure.
     Q.   The south tower was the one that fell
and shook while you guys were upstairs.
     A.   That must have come down already.
     Q.   That came down.
     A.   So at that point the other building was
getting ready to come down, and they said run.
So we ran towards the rig.  I got in the rig.  I
had to back it out of the street, the way it was
parked.  I couldn't see, because it was kind of
cloudy and there were still people running.
          Then Rich Carletti got in.  My eyes
were full of dust and stuff, so he got in and he
backed the rig out.  We parked it up another two
blocks north.  I don't remember the street now.
I made sure --
          CHIEF MALKIN:  I have to stop the
     interview to remove cell phones that are
     here.  It's 1617 hours right now.
E. MECNER 9
(Pause.)
          CHIEF MALKIN:  1618 hours the interview
     resumes.
     A.   The north tower started to come down,
and we ran north maybe at this point five blocks
north of Vesey Street.  I saw Derek Brogan in an
ambulance, the member that was having the chest
pains.  I asked him for his home number.  I told
him I would call his wife if I can.
          I walked up the street with some
civilians.  I was just assisting them.  We were
walking up, and I was asking them their names and
so forth.  People were trying to get through on
cell phones.  They couldn't.
          I got Derek's wife's number.  I wrote
it down.  I asked him if he saw Gerard.  He said
he did see Gerard Gorman, the member we were
looking for that was on the 23rd floor with us.
He said that he's also in an ambulance and he was
taken to the hospital; I don't know which one.
          I was able to get to a factory building
or there was a business -- I don't recall what it
was.  They let me use their phone, and I got
through to Derek's wife.  I left a message saying
E. MECNER 10
he's okay, that he's in St. Vincent's, he's okay.
     Q.   You talked directly to her?
     A.   No.
     Q.   You think it was a machine?
     A.   I think it was a machine.  So I just
left a message saying Derek's okay.  He's being
taken to St. Vincent's Hospital, but he's okay.
I think I asked for her to call if she gets the
message, because we're having trouble getting
through, to give my wife a call and say it's
okay.  I gave her the number.  I believe I also
was able to get through to my brother-in-law and
tell him call everybody and say I'm okay.
          I came back out of the building.  I
found Lieutenant Bohack at the rig, Rich
Carletti, Jimmy Andruzzi.  We repositioned the
rig on Church Street and I think around Liberty.
We were looking for some hydrants that we could
use.  Most of the hydrants were out.  Our rig was
one of the few that was in operation at that
point.
          We parked near I think Brooks Brothers.
There's a store on Church Street.  We found a
hydrant that was out.  There was a tower ladder
E. MECNER 11
trying to get in position, so we were assisting
with that.  When we couldn't find any good
hydrants, we walked the perimeter of both towers,
looking to see if there was someone in charge,
something to do.
          At that point Jimmy said he wanted to
find his brother.  He did see him, saw that he
was okay.  So then he came back and stayed with
us the rest of the time.
          For the rest of the day we were mostly
around Church Street in front of Brooks Brothers.
I think it's south of Vesey Street a block or
two.  We were generally in that area trying to
get water out of maybe some of the standpipes in
the buildings.  Then they said that the 47 story
hotel building -- I think it's number seven --
was about to come down.
          We were around for the rest of the
afternoon.  At about 5:30 that did come down.  We
were in the area, so we ran down the street
again.  We ran east down whatever street we were
on and ran east towards Broadway.
     Q.   Would the map help you locate what
street were on?  Let me show you this map.  This
E. MECNER 12
is the north tower.  This is Vesey Street, and
seven is here.  So where were you in relation to
seven when it came down?
     A.   Well, Trinity and Church actually turn
into the same street.  We were I guess right
around Fulton.  We might have been on Fulton or
Dey Street.  We were generally in this area for a
lot of the time later on in the afternoon.  I
guess my rig might have been parked around Warren
Street when we first arrived, maybe Murray.
     Q.   So when seven started to collapse, you
guys ran east on Fulton or Dey Street?
     A.   Fulton or Dey, and we met up around
Broadway.  At that point it was maybe around 6,
after 6, 6:30.  We kind of had enough.  So I
asked the officer if we could get ready to go
back.  At that point there were plenty of units
there.
          Jimmy Andruzzi and myself were there at
that point for -- well, we worked 24 hours, and
plus we were there for another 10 hours or so.
That's going into 30-something hours of non-stop.
     Q.   You were tired?
     A.   Yeah.  Plus we were in the north tower,
E. MECNER 13
and that collapsed.  Now this other building is
telling you run for your life again.  I think we
had enough.
     Q.   You didn't want to wait for the next
one?
     A.   We were there for the two of them.  We
said at that time we're tired, and they weren't
really going to get much more out of us than what
we can give.
     Q.   What did the officer say?
     A.   He said we're ready to go.
     Q.   Did you go?
     A.   Yeah, maybe in about the next 45
minutes.  Tommy Lynn was there at that point,
Rich Carletti from Engine 5, a couple other
members from Engine 5 that arrived sometime in
the early afternoon.  Wherever they were
operating, I don't know.  There were units from
all over the city.  It was hard to determine who
was who and where everyone was.
          Then we came back.
     Q.   Came back to quarters?
     A.   Yeah, in I think a police van or
something.  They escorted about 15 of us.  We all
E. MECNER 14
piled in.  When we came back to quarters, it was
maybe 8:00 or something, 7:30, 8, and that was
the end of the day.
     Q.   I want to ask you, somebody in the
lobby of the north tower ordered Engine 5 to
start going upstairs.  Were you with Engine 5 at
that point in the lobby of the north tower?
     A.   I just caught up with them.
     Q.   Just caught up with them?
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   So you didn't see who the chief was
that gave the orders to go up or who they spoke
to?
A. No. Iwasjustkindofinahurryto catch up with the members.
     Q.   You caught up with them.  They had been
given the orders to start going upstairs?
A. Right.
     Q.   And you followed along with them.
Okay.
          Lobby conditions.  Did you notice
anything unusual in the lobby when you were
there?  Was there any fire in the lobby?
A. No.
E. MECNER 15
     Q.   Did you see the banks of elevators,
what the conditions was over that way?
     A.   I didn't look to see.  I just tried to
catch up.  I saw them and they were headed
towards I guess it was stairway A at that point.
I just caught up with them and wanted to stay
pretty much with them.
     Q.   Do you remember seeing any other units
that were with you or that you passed in the
stairway on the way up?
     A.   The only units I kind of recall seeing
were the ones that were on the 19th floor and the
23rd floor.  I saw a couple members of Engine 10
and the other members of Ladder 9 and a few Port
Authority ESU units.  That was about it.  I don't
remember seeing any other companies that I
remember at this point.
          That was it.
     Q.   That's about it?
     A.   Yeah.  I think like Manny Delvalle at
some point maybe around the tenth floor, after
the tenth or 13th floor, I don't remember seeing
him on 19 or 23.  I think he was assisting a
civilian.  The last time I saw him was maybe
E. MECNER 16
around the 13th floor.
     Q.   Is he missing?
     A.   He's missing, right.
     Q.   On the way up, he stayed behind,
assisting a civilian, and you got separated?
     A.   I guess so, because when we were
walking up the stairs, all turnouts look the
same.  You're just kind of walking up the line,
and civilians were coming down the stairway as
well.  I asked a few what floor they came from,
and I recall someone saying 84.  One of the
civilians said 84.
          I saw a restaurant worker.  I asked him
if he worked at Windows on the World, and he said
no, he works in the sky lobby.  I guess there's a
restaurant, someplace up on 44 or 46, wherever
the sky lobby is.
     Q.   You guys were going up the A stairway,
that you recall?
     A.   We started off I believe in the A.  At
some point someone said there's less people in
the C stairway, so we crossed over on around the
third or fourth floor to the C stairway.  Then we
went up.
E. MECNER 17
          Coming down it was pretty much the same
thing.  We started down I believe in C, and then
on the third or fourth floor there was a problem.
There was something stuck in a hallway.  We
couldn't get down, couldn't continue down that
stairwell.  We crossed over to the A.  Someone
said this way, and we went down to A.
          Then we went to the lobby where we
waited for -- we were waiting for Gerard Gorman
at that point.  He was the last guy we saw that
wasn't with us.  Then Lieutenant Bohack gave the
order to get out of the building.  We waited
another minute, and then we did.  A few minutes
later it came coming down.
          That was pretty much it.
          CHIEF MALKIN:  It is now 1627 hours.  I
     want to thank Fireman Mecner for this
     interview.  This concludes the interview.

FILE NO 9110392
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER WILLIAM GREEN
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 26 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

GREEN
CHIEF MALKIN 1400 HOURS THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN OF THE SAFETY BATTALION IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH FIREMAN FIRST GRADE WILLIAM GREEN OF ENGINE
WERE AT THE QUARTERS OF ENGINE THERES NOBODY ELSE IN THE ROOM THE
INTERVIEW CONCERNS THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001 WHAT FOLLOWS IS THE INTERVIEW
WE WERE RETURNING FROM AN EMS RUN AND WE PULLED UP TO THE INTERSECTION OF ROSE STREET AND AVENUE OF THE FINEST THATS RIGHT NEXT TO
ONE POLICE PLAZA THATS WHEN WE HEARD LOUD EXPLOSION
WE WERE LOOKING AROUND WE DIDNT KNOW WHERE IT CAME FROM IT WAS LOUD POLICE
OFFICER POINTED TO THE NORTH TOWER OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WE LOOKED UP THERE AND WE SAW
HOLE MAYBE ABOUT THREE STORIES WIDE JAGGED HOLE SOMEWHERE IN THE EIGHTIES IN THE NORTH WALL
OF ONE WORLD TOWER WE THOUGHT IT WAS BOMB
WE STARTED RESPONDING LIEUTENANT SECOND ALARM BECAUSE THE EXTERIOR SKIN WAS
DAMAGED AND BELIEVE HE ALSO TRANSMITTED
10 60 WE STARTED RESPONDING TO THE WORLD TRADE
GAVE

CENTER
GREEN
WE HAD TO MAKE LEFT ON GOLD AND
RIGHT ON BEEKMAN THE FIREHOUSE IS LOCATED AT 49 BEEKMAN STREET TWO FIREFIGHTERS CAME OUT FROM THE HOUSE THEY WERE SCHEDULED TO WORK DAY TOUR FIREFIGHTER BILL JOHNSTON AND FIREFIGHTER
BOB EMANS THEY JUMPED ON THE RIG AND WE STARTED RESPONDING TO ONE WORLD TRADE
WHEN WE GOT OVER TO CHURCH STREET AND VESEY THE STREET WAS PACKED WITH PEOPLE THERE WAS ACTUALLY PEOPLE GRIDLOCK IN THE STREET THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE THE APPARATUS ACTUALLY HAD TO SLOWLY PLOW THE PEOPLE OUT OF THE WAY SO WE COULD RESPOND
THE RIG STOPPED FIRST ON VESEY RIGHT IN FRONT OF SEVEN WORLD TRADE THERE WAS LOT OF
DEBRIS ON THE GROUND THERE THEN WE CONTINUED TO THE FRONT OF ONE WORLD TRADE WE MADE LEFT ON
WEST STREET HEADING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION OF THE NORTHBOUND LANES ON WEST STREET
THE CHAUFFEUR POSITIONED THE APPARATUS RIGHT UNDERNEATH WHAT WOULD BE THE NORTH
PEDESTRIAN COVERED BRIDGE THAT CONNECTS SIX WORLD TRADE WITH ONE WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER THE

GREEN
CHAUFFEUR TOOK HYDRANT AND WE GRABBED OUR ROLLUPS OFF THE RIG AND PROCEEDED INTO ONE WORLD
TRADE
THERE WERE PEOPLE JUMPING OUT OF THE
BUILDING AT THAT POINT THEY LOOKED LIKE THEY WERE LANDING ON TOP OF SIX WORLD TRADE EVERYONE WAS SAYING LETS GET IN LETS GET IN BEFORE WE GET HIT BY THE PEOPLE WE RAN INTO THE BUILDING IT WAS ME PAUL BEYER BILL JOHNSTON TOM HOLOHAN AND WE HAD COVERING OFFICER LIEUTENANT OHAGAN
WE ENTERED IN THROUGH THE FRONT DOORS OF THE LOBBY THE LOBBY WAS SCREWED ALL THE
WINDOWS WERE ALREADY BROKEN MARBLE WALLS THAT SURROUNDED THE ELEVATOR SHAFT THEY WERE CRACKED AND BROKEN
LIEUTENANT OHAGAN HE REPORTED IN TO THE FIRE COMMAND STATION WE STOOD FAST WHERE WE
NORMALLY STAND FAST BASICALLY RIGHT BY THE CORE THERE OR JUST OUTSIDE THE CORE THERE WERE SOME
TURNSTILES THAT YOU HAD TO GO THROUGH TO GET LIKE TOWARDS THE CORE
LIEUTENANT OHAGAN REPORTED IN IN FEW MOMENTS HE CAME UP AND SAID OKAY WE RE

GREEN
GOING TO HEAD UP THE STAIRCASE IM STILL
THINKING
BOMB WENT OFF
IM SORRY FORGOT SOMETHING WHEN WE PULLED UP IN FRONT OF WHEN WE FIRST SAW THE
WITH THE HOLE WHEN WE SAW THE HOLE IT LOOKED LIKE JAGGED HOLE ABOUT THREE STORIES
HIGH AND WIDE BUNCH OF PAPERS HAD FLOWN OUT
WE THOUGHT IT WAS BOMB
WHEN WE GOT OVER THERE JUST BEFORE
ENTERED THE BUILDING TOOK LOOK UP AND
COULD SEE TWO EXPOSURES ALMOST THREE EXPOSURES
THERE WERE MULTIPLE FLOORS ON FIRE ON THREE
EXPOSURES COULD SEE
JUST AS WE STARTED TOWARDS THE
ELEVATORS WE WERE GOING TO GO FOR THE STAIRCASE THERE WERE HANDY TALKY TRANSMISSIONS
SAYING ITS CONFIRMED AIRPLANE CRASH ON THE 86TH FLOOR
BUILDING
SO THOUGHT TO MYSELF POSSIBLY IT WAS
AN ACCIDENT
WAS TERRORIST ATTACK THEY HAD CESSNA PACKED WITH TNT DID NOT KNOW IT WAS
JETLINER NOR DID THINK ANY MEMBERS OF MY CREW
POSSIBLY IT
WITH SMALL CESSNA OR SOMETHING
OR

GREEN
WE HEADED FOR THE STAIRCASE IT WAS MUCH IN THE CENTER OF THE CORE WE HAD TO
PRETTY
GO THROUGH THESE TURNSTILES REMEMBER THERE
WAS LOT OF RUBBLE ON THE FLOOR THERE THERE WAS ELEVATOR DOORS AJAR THERE WERE ELEVATOR DOORS MISSING COULD SEE AN ELEVATOR CAR TWISTED IN THE SHAFT
REMEMBER LOOKED UP AT THE CEILING
BECAUSE THOUGHT MAYBE THE CEILING GOT CHARRED BECAUSE THERE WAS BUNCH OF RUBBLE ON THE FLOOR
IT WAS ABOUT THREE FEET HIGH IN THE MIDDLE THE CEILING WASNT CHARRED SO HAD THOUGHT THE FLOOR BLEW UP
WAS TELLING GUYS AFTERWARDS THE FLOOR MUST HAVE BLOWN UP MAYBE THERE WAS BOMB
DOWNSTAIRS OR SOMETHING BUT CAME TO LEARN THAT THAT WAS BODIES WE HAD TO CLIMB OVER AND AROUND THIS PILE
PILE OF BODIES IN THE LOBBY
DIDNT RECOGNIZE IT AS BODIES DONT KNOW IF MY MIND DIDNT SEE IT
BURNED
BURNED
NEAR THE ELEVATORS

GREEN
IT LOOKED LIKE RUBBLE TO ME
RIGHT
RIGHT OUTSIDE THE ELEVATORS IN THE
CORE WE HAD TO CLIMB UP AND AROUND IT IT WAS LIKE THREE FEET HIGH IN THE MIDDLE TO ENTER
THE STAIRCASE
WE ENTERED THE STAIRCASE BELIEVE ON THE FIRST STORY IT WAS LIKE METAL SECURITY GATE ON THE FIRST STORY ITS LIKE SOMEONE COULDNT HOP UP THE STAIRS AND THERE WAS GATE THAT WAS OPEN
PEOPLE WERE COMING DOWN PEOPLE WERE
EVACUATING WE WERE HEADING UP THE STAIRCASE WAS NARROW IT WAS ONLY TWO PEOPLE WIDE WE
WERE TELLING THEM STAY TO THE RIGHT STAY TO THE RIGHT WE STARTED HEADING UP REMEMBER
WATER FLOWING DOWN THE STAIRS LIKE RAPID RIVER MAYBE THE FIRST TEN STORIES THEN THE WATER
SEEMED TO STOP
WE WERE HEADING UP TELLING PEOPLE TO
STAY TO THE RIGHT PEOPLE WERE CHEERING US
THE FIREMEN ARE HERE THE FIREMEN ARE HERE THEYRE PATTING US ON THE BACK THE HIGHER WE GOT WE STARTED SEEING INJURED PEOPLE
SAYING

PEOPLE WERE BURNED
GREEN
APPROXIMATELY WHEN WE GOT TO THE 14TH FLOOR HEARD HANDY TALKY TRANSMISSION
ANOTHER PLANE ANOTHER PLANE LITTLE RUMBLE ANOTHER PLANE JUST HIT THE SOUTH TOWER THATS WHAT HEARD ON THE HANDY TALKY
WE CONTINUED UP AT THE 17TH FLOOR MY
COMPANY WAS WAITING FOR ME TOOK BLOW WE WENT INTO THE FLOOR PEOPLE WERE COMING DOWN OTHER FIREMEN WERE MAYBE BEHIND US GOING UP THEY WERE TAKING BLOWS AT DIFFERENT FLOORS
MY WHOLE COMPANY REGROUPED ON THAT 17TH FLOOR WE UNCOVERED LITTLE BIT WE WERE SWEATING AND WE WERE FATIGUED ALREADY THERE WAS VENDING MACHINE THERE WITH
PANEL WITH BUNCH OF WATERS IN IT
GUYS WENT LOOKING FOR CHANGE SO
AND SMASHED THE GLASS IT TOOK ABOUT TWO OR THREE HARD BLOWS WE WERE LAUGHING
OH YOURE THE GUY THEYRE LOOKING FOR NO JUST KIDDING GO AHEAD
WE WERE LAUGHING WE WERE LAUGHING WE TOOK WATERS PASSED THEM OUT TO BROTHERS ON THE FLOOR PASSED THEM OUT TO CIVILIANS ON THE
BIG GLASS
AND STUFF AND
TOOK THE AXE

STAIRS
GREEN
FEW MOMENTS LATER WE STARTED
CONTINUING UP AGAIN WE REGROUPED AT THE 31ST FLOOR WE TOOK LONGER BLOW THERE WHEN WE
WERE GOING UP PEOPLE WERE HANDING US BOTTLES OF WATER TOO THE HIGHER WE WOULD GET UP THERE
WERE SOME SEVERELY BURNT PEOPLE PEOPLE WERE
HELPING PEOPLE DOWN
AT THE 31ST FLOOR WAS THE LAST ONE
TO GET THERE AGAIN THE COMPANY TOOK BLOW LIEUTENANT ATLAS FROM 10 ENGINE POPPED HIS HEAD
IN THE DOOR AND SAID COME ON GUYS WEVE GOT TO MAKE PUSH TOM HOLOHAN AND BILLY JOHNSTON THEY HAD LITTLE BIT OF THEIR WIND AND
LIEUTENANT OHAGAN THEY SAID THEY WERE GOING START ME AND PAUL PROBABLY NEEDED LITTLE MORE OF BLOW
SO THEY STARTED IN THE STAIRS AGAIN
AN OFFICER CAME IN FROM THE STAIRWAY WHICH WAS
TOWARDS EXPOSURE HE CAME OUT OF THE STAIRWAY AND WAS ASKING ME AND PAUL WHERE IS THE STAIRWAY WHERE IS THE STAIRWAY
SO PAUL WENT TOWARDS THE EXPOSURE SIDE OF THE BUILDING AND WENT TOWARDS THE

GREEN 10
EXPOSURE SIDE OF THE BUILDING THE STAIRWAY WAS TOWARDS EXPOSURE TOWARDS THE FRONT OF THE
BUILDING
HE SAID THAT THEY WANTED DONT REMEMBER WHAT COMPANY THIS OFFICER WAS FROM
HAVE BEEN TRUCK IM KIND OF THEY WANTED CIVILIANS IN THE
RESCUE
FLOOR THE WHOLE COMPANY WAS TAKING BLOW WITH
US
AT THIS POINT THE WHOLE CORRIDOR FILLED UP WITH CIVILIANS THAT WERE IN THE STAIRWAY
THE ATTACK STAIRWAY AND THEY WERE EVACUATING TO THE STAIRWAY THEN IT CLEARED UP THAT STAIRWAY
PRETTY GOOD
SHORT WHILE LATER PAUL REALIZED HIS HELMET WAS MISSING RESCUE HAD LEFT THEY
STARTED UP AGAIN
WHATS PAULS LAST NAME
PAUL BEYER PAUL REALIZED HIS HELMET WAS MISSING WE WERE LOOKING FOR HIS HELMET
SAID YOU KNOW MAYBE SOMEONE FROM RESCUE TOOK IT BY MISTAKE YOU KNOWBECAUSE GUYS WERE
UNCOVERING AND THEY PUT THEIR STUFF BACK ON
THINK
IT MIGHT ON THAT
FUZZY STAIR
WAS ALSO TAKING BLOW ON THIS

GREEN 11
THEN WAS THINKING MAYHE ONE OF THE CIVILIANS TOOK IT BUT COME TO FIND OUT TALKING TO OTHER GUYS THAT THERE WAS AN ENGINE HELMET ON THE 17TH FLOOR WHERE WE TOOK THE BLOW HE FORGOT HIS HELMET DOWN THERE AND HE DIDNT REALIZE IT AND WE DIDNT REALIZE IT
SO HE GRABBED ROLL UP AND STARTED IN THE STAIRS AGAIN OH ON THE 31ST FLOOR WE
DECIDED WE HAD FOUR ROLLUPS WITH US WE SAID LETS TAKE TWO ROLLUPS BETWEEN FOUR GUYS AND WE LEFT TWO ROLLUPS ON THE 31ST FLOOR
SO BILLY JOHNSTON AND TOMMY HOLOHAN
GRABBED ONE PAULIE PROBABLY GRABBED THE OTHER ONE AND WAS BUTTONING UP GETTING READY
WAS REALLY FATIGUED
REMEMBER ON THE 31ST FLOOR THERE WERE
TWO GUYS FROM 10 TRUCK AND THERE WAS PORT
AUTHORITY POLICE OFFICER WITH SCOTT PACK UNIFORM AND SCOTT PACK AND HE HAD MEDICAL
SUPPLIES THINK THE GUYS WERE HAVING CHEST PAINS AND HE WAS TENDING TO THEM
PAULIE PROBABLY WAS WORRIED ABOUT ME AND HE WAS SAYING ARE YOU ALL RIGHT SAID
IM
ALL RIGHT IM ALL RIGHT HE TOLD THE

GREEN 12
GUY OH CHECK HIM OUT CHECK HIM OUT THE
GUY ASKED ME ARE YOU ALL RIGHT ALL RIGHT IM ALL RIGHT
ENTERED THE STAIRCASE GOING UP GOT TO APPROXIMATELY THE
SAID IM
STARTED
37TH FLOOR
HAD THE BACKUP POSITION HAD
THE BUILDING VIOLENTLY SHOOK LIKE
TOSSING US AROUND DONNED MY MASK DIDNT
KNOW WHAT
THEN SOMEONE OPENED THE DOOR FROM THE
36TH FLOOR AND SAID TWO WORLD TRADE CENTER JUST FELL DOWN IM THINKING ITS ONE OF THESE IT FELL LIKE ON AN ANGLE FELL ACROSS MANY BLOCKS
DIDNT KNOW IT PANCAKED THE WAY THE BUILDING SHOOK DIDNT DOUBT HIM THAT IT HAD FALLEN
COMPLETELY
IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN ABOUT 30 SECONDS
LATER BELIEVE
BUILDING
ON
HAD HEARD HANDY TALKY TRANSMISSION
IT
WAS MAYDAY MAYDAY EVACUATE THE EVACUATE THE BUILDING
ON CHANNEL
ON CHANNEL THATS THE CHANNEL
THEN EVERYBODY WAS SAYING YOU GOT
HANDY TALKY
AN EARTHQUAKE
WAS

GREEN 13
THAT YOU GOT THAT EVACUATE THE BUILDING
EVACUATE THE BUILDING ON THE HANDY TALKY EVERYBODY IS GOING TURNED AROUND AND STARTED
GOING DOWN YOU COULD ONLY WALK YOU WOULD GET
COUPLE OF STEPS AND IT WOULD STOP MAYBE YOU WOULD GET COUPLE MORE STEPS AND IT WOULD STOP
FULL OF PEOPLE
ALL FIREMEN DONT REMEMBER
CIVILIANS
SO THERE WERE SO MANY THAT THEY WERE BUNCHING UP YOU WOULD WALK STOP WALK STOP
YEAH WALK STOP IT WAS LIKE PEOPLE GRIDLOCK AGAIN EVERYBODY WAS CALLING EVERYBODY
ON THE RADIO THIS UNIT UNIT TO THIS POSITION
TO THIS POSITION THIS
WAS TRYING TO GET MY BELIEVE SPOKE TO TOM
CHANCE IN CALLED AND
HOLOHAN CONTROL IM WORKING MY WAY DOWN WERE
EVACUATING WERE WORKING OUR WAY DOWN
YOU GET COUPLE OF STEPS OR COUPLE
OF FLOORS AND IT WOULD STOP GUYS WERE FILING
IN FROM EVERY FLOOR WAS ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE STAIRWAY SO AS YOU WOULD COME DOWN EACH
STAIRWAY THATS WHERE THE FLOORS WERE FEEDING
IN

GREEN 14
AT ONE POINT THERE WAS AN OPENING ON THE INSIDE OF THE STAIRWAY REALIZED LET ME
MOVE OVER THERE BECAUSE THIS LANE IS SLOW
THINK THATS WHAT SAVED MY LIFE IS THAT IT WAS ON THE INSIDE OF THE STAIRWAY AS YOU COME TO EACH FLOOR THEY FILED IN ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE STAIRWAY GUYS THAT HAD SEEN COMING DOWN
FILING IN ON FLOORS DIDNT MAKE IT IN HINDSIGHT LOOKING AT IT NOW THINK THATS WHAT SAVED MY LIFE
WORKED MY WAY DOWN WHEN GOT TO THE LOWER FLOORS IN THE SINGLE DIGITS HAD
CONTACT WITH MY COMPANY OFFICER HE WAS MAKING HIS WAY DOWN DONT KNOW WHAT FLOOR HE WAS ON AROUND THE FOURTH FLOOR PASSED THIS CIVILIAN
HE MIGHT HAVE BEEN 450 POUNDS HE WAS HUGE
MAN DONT KNOW WHAT HIS AGE WAS BUT HE WAS HUGE 450 POUNDS HE WAS TAKING BABY STEPS LIKE THIS
WALKED RIGHT PAST HIM LIKE ALL THE OTHER FIREMEN FELT LIKE HEEL WHEN IM
WALKING PAST HIM AND IM THINKING TO MYSELF AS IM WALKING PAST WHAT DOES THIS GUY THINK OF ME YOU KNOW MEAN KNOW NOW COULDNT HAVE

GREEN 15
IT WOULD HAVE BLOCKED UP THE STAIRWAY MORE THINK IT WAS ABOUT THE FOURTH FLOOR
THE NEXT LANDING THE THIRD FLOOR REMEMBER TWO FIREMEN CARRYING WOMAN BELIEVE
IT WAS CAUCASIAN WOMAN DONT THINK IT WAS TRUCK BECAUSE THAT WOMAN LOOKED LARGE AND SHE WAS DARK SKINNED BELIEVE THIS WAS SMALLER
WOMAN FROM WHAT REMEMBER BELIEVE SHE WAS CAUCASIAN IT LOOKED LIKE THEY HAD IT THEY WERE MAKING THEIR WAY DOWN
CONTINUED TO FILE DOWN GOT OUT OF THE STAIRS INTO THE CORE OF THE LOBBY HAD TO CLIMB OVER THAT PILE OF RUBBLE AGAIN THERE WAS SOME PORT AUTHORITY PERSONNEL IN THERE HE WAS POINTING US TOWARDS THE FIRE COMMAND STATION
THE LOBBY WAS REALLY SCREWED NOW THERE WAS DUST AND DEBRIS EVERYWHERE SAW THE
FRONT DOORS THERE WAS DEBRIS ALL OVER THE FRONT DOORS THAT WE ENTERED WE WALKED TOWARDS THE
FIRE COMMAND STATION WHICH WAS ON THE EXPOSURE 1EXPOSURE WALL THERE WAS NO PERSONNEL AT THE FIRE COMMAND STATION SAID OH THIS IS BAD
WE WENT UP TO THE WINDOW WAS WITH GROUP OF ABOUT 20 FIREMEN DONT REMEMBER WHO

GREEN 16
IT WAS THAT WAS WITH ME WE HAD TO EXIT OUT WINDOW THE LAST WINDOW ON THE EXPOSURE CLOSE
TO EXPOSURE
THERE WAS SOMEBODY OUTSIDE DONT
KNOW IF HE WAS MEMBER HE WAS 75 MAYBE 100 FEET AWAY FROM THE BUILDING HE WAS COVERED IN
DUST HE POINTED UP AND HE HELD UP WE KNEW THAT MEANT SOMETHING WAS COMING DOWN WE WAITED
KEPT LOOKING BACK MORE GUYS ARE FILING DOWN THERES WHOLE STRING OF GUYS FILING DOWN FROM
THERE SOME PEOPLE JUMPED SOME PEOPLE LANDED RIGHT THERE
HE SAID COME ON STEPPED OUT OF
THIS WINDOW
REMEMBER STARTED WALKING OUT WAS WALKING REMEMBER
THE BUILDING
LOOKED TO THE RIGHT THERE WAS PILE THERE
REMEMBER LOOKED TO
THE LEFT AND SAW WHAT WAS THE MARRIOTT HOTEL AND
THERE WAS GIANT CUT FROM THE TOP FLOOR TO

GREEN 17
LIKE THE THIRD FLOOR WAS MISSING THERE WAS LOT OF RUBBLE OUT IN THE STREET
REMEMBER WAS WALKING OUT AWAY FROM THE COMPLEX TO WEST STREET AND COULD SEE
ACROSS THE STREET ON THE STEPS ON WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER WHAT LOOKED LIKE SOME KIND OF COMMAND POST
WAS SET UP REMEMBER SAW ENGINE THERE
ENGINE WHERE WE HAD PARKED IT NO PERSONNEL AROUND IT
DONT KNOW IF SOMEONE YELLED GO NORTH OR IF HEARD VOICE GO NORTH BUT GUYS WERE GOING EACH DIRECTION WENT NORTH WITH BUNCH OF OTHER GUYS TOO WALKED UNDER THE FOOT BRIDGE STARTED HEADING NORTH GOT TO VESEY STREET KIND OF CROSSED VESEY STREET ONTO THE SOUTHBOUND IM SORRY TO VESEY AND WEST CONTINUED UP WEST BUT KIND OF DIAGONALLY
CROSSED INTO THE SOUTHBOUND LANES OF WEST STREET COMING DOWN
GOT MAYBE THIRD OF BLOCK HALF OF BLOCK UP THERE AND IM LOOKING BACK WALKING
SLOW WAITING FOR MY GUYS TO CATCH UP AND SOMEONE SAID ITS FALLING SAW THE GUY THAT YELLED IT AND HE WAS FAR AWAY HE WAS FAR AWAY

GREEN 18
BACK TOWARDS THE BUILDINGS
NO HE WAS FURTHER AWAY FROM THE
BUILDINGS FURTHER NORTH AND FURTHER WEST HE
POINTED UP HE SAID ITS FALLING LOOKED AND IT LOOKED LIKE TO ME THAT IT WAS STARTING TO
TIP AT 45 DEGREE ANGLE RIGHT TOWARDS ME THE ANTENNA BUT YOU DONT SEE THAT IN THE VIDEO
BUT IVE SEEN ONE SHOT OVER AND OVER AND OVER THEY PLAY IT ON THE NEWS GUESS IT STARTED TO PANCAKE AND THEN AT ONE POINT IT STARTED TO TIP IT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS COMING RIGHT TOWARDS ME
TO BACKTRACK IN THIS STATE WHEN THE
ORDER CAME TO EVACUATE PEOPLE STARTED DITCHING THEIR EQUIPMENT THEIR TOOLS TAKING THEIR TURNOUT COATS OFF WAS BUTTONED UP HAD MY TURNOUT COAT ON HAD MY MASK
WAS TRYING TO RUN WAS SO FATIGUED FELT LIKE THE MICHELIN MAN WAS
TRYING TO RUN UP WEST STREET MADE LEFT ONTO DONT KNOW WHAT STREET IT WAS THINK IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN MURRAY THERE WAS BASEBALL FIELD THERE
YOU WERE NORTH OF VESEY YOURE COMING UP TO MURRAY AND THERE WAS BASEBALL FIELD

GREEN 19
MIGHT HAVE BEEN THIS STREET FIELD HERE AND ITS
FIELD ITS TWO BASEBALL
ITS PROBABLY MURRAY STREET JUST NORTH OF MURRAY STREET AND JUST WEST OF WEST STREET
RIGHT THATS EXACTLY WHERE IT WAS ENTERED WHAT APPEARED TO BE THE OUTFIELD WAS TRYING NOT TO LOOK BACK WAS JUST TRYING TO RUN BUT FELT LIKE WASNT GETTING ANYWHERE
COULD START SEEING THIS CLOUD COMING AT ME WAS JUST ABLE TO TAKE MY HELMET OFF AND GET MY FACE PIECE ON AND JUST GET MY HELMET BACK ON WITHOUT SNAPPING IT AND FELT BLAST
IT MIGHT HAVE KNOCKED ME TO MY KNEE AND THEN
GOT UP IT WAS ALL ORANGE IT WAS PAPERS ON FIRE COULD SEE IT WAS PAPERS ON FIRE
COULD FEEL LITTLE HEAT ON THE BACK OF MY NECK AND MY EARS IT SURROUNDED ME AND THEN ALL OF SUDDEN IT JUST TURNED BLACK BLACK ASH
IM EXPECTING ALL RIGHT SOMETHING SOLID IS GOING TO HIT ME SOMETHING SOLID IS GOING TO HIT ME IM PELTED WITH SMALL
SOMEWHERE THERE YEAH IT
THERE
PRETTY
FIELDS WIDE
WAS BASEBALL BIG BASEBALL

GREEN 20
PARTICLES BUT IM THINKING THE ANTENNA IS GOING TO SKEW ME IN THE BACK
THE FIRST COUPLE OF BREATHS MY MASK WERE CONCRETE DUST CRAP SO
TOOK FROM WAS
KNEW IT WAS COULD SEE THAT
FLASHLIGHT IT ONLY KNEW COULDNT STAY THERE WALKED ACROSS THIS BASEBALL FIELD BLIND
LIKE THIS LIKE BABY WITH MY HANDS STRETCHED OUT IN FRONT OF ME WALKED LONG TIME
THOUGHT MY AIR WAS GOING TO RUN OUT COULDNT RUN BECAUSE COULDNT SEE WHERE WAS GOING
EVEN THOUGH IT WAS BASEBALL FIELD WHATS GOING TO BE IN THERE RIGHT BUT YOU DONT THINK
STUMBLING LITTLE THE NEXT THING FELT WAS THE BACK OF THE BATTING CAGE OF THE BASEBALL
FIELD FELT THE ANGLE OF THE FENCE KNEW IT WAS BATTING CAGE
CHOKING IN MY MASK BUT ENVIRONMENT THAN OUTSIDE
ROLLING
BETTER
BLACK STUFF TURNED ON MY
SHINED ABOUT TWO INCHES
THE DIRECTION CHOSE WAS
GUESS DIAGONAL DIRECTION AND WALKED LONG TIME AND
RIGHT
AND
SO
STARTED WORKING MY WAY TO THE FOUND LOWER FENCE AND SAID TO

GREEN 21
MYSELF THIS MUST BE THE DUGOUT FENCE SO
WORKED MY WAY ALL THE WAY DOWN IT AROUND IT
BACK DOWN THE FENCE THERES STILL NO
VISIBILITY THEN FELT THE ANGLE OF THE BACK OF IT SAID ALL RIGHT IM AT THE BACK OF THE BATTING CAGE
WAS WONDERING IF THERES GOING TO BE WAY OUT OF THIS PARK NOW YOU KNOW SOME SMOKE
STARTED TO LIFT AND COULD SEE THERE WAS
BREAK IN THE FENCE TOOK MY FACE PIECE OFF MY EYES WERE ALL IRRITATED WHEN CAME OUT IT WAS ON NORTH END AVENUE BELIEVE OF THAT BASEBALL FIELD NORTH END AVENUE
RIGHT OVER HERE
THINK IT WAS RIGHT HERE OR RIGHT
HERE IM NOT SURE IF ITS PARK PLACE OR WAGNER WERE LOOKING ON THE MAP AT NORTH END
AVENUE AT PARK PLACE OR WARREN STREET
THERE WAS NEWS CAMERAMAN THERE HES
TAKING VIDEO OF ME IM KIND OF WAVING HIM OFF WAS PISSED OFF HE WAS TAKING VIDEO OF ME
TWO POLICE OFFICERS CAME UP TO ME AND WALKED ME UP TO THE CORNER OF WARREN STREET AND NORTH END AVENUE AND THEY KNELT ME DOWN AND THEY

GREEN 22
POURED GALLON OF WATER OVER MY FACE TO WASH MY EYES OUT MY FACE WAS COVERED WITH DUST THERE
WAS POLICE OFFICER THEN THAT SAID THERE
TRIAGE CENTER IN STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL HE ESCORTED ME DOWN NORTH END AVENUE TO CHAMBERS
STREET WHERE STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL IS LOCATED WALKED INTO THE LOBBY OF THIS HIGH
SCHOOL AND THERE WERE HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE THERE
TURNED AROUND AND WALKED BACK OUT FELT
WAS ALL RIGHT WANTED TO RECOUP MY COMPANY STARTED WALKING DOWN CHAMBERS STREET AND SOME
EMS GIRL CAME CHASING AFTER ME SHE SAID OH COME IN COME IN SAID NO IM ALL RIGHT IM ALL RIGHT SHE SAID ARE YOU SURE YOU DONT LOOK ALL RIGHT WAS COVERED IN THE DUST SAID IM ALL
RIGHT
TRIED CONTACTING MY COMPANY ON THE
HANDY TALKY WENT DOWN TO WEST STREET
STARTED REGROUPING WITH OTHER COMPANIES IN MY BATTALION LADDER ENGINE SAW THE
CAPTAIN OF ENGINE CAPTAIN TARDIO HE SAID HE HAD TWO MEMBERS MISSING SAID IM MISSING
EVERYBODY
WAS TRYING TO CALL MY GUYS THERE

GREEN 23
WERE NO ANSWERS EVERYBODY STARTED GIVING
YOU COULDNT
GET CONTROL WE HAD CHIEF WHO WAS TRYING TO
GET CONTROL WEVE GOT MAYDAY LETS GET CONTROL THERE WAS NO CONTROL OF THE RADIO
ALL OF SUDDEN WALL OF PEOPLE COME RUNNING UP THEY WERE AFRAID ANOTHER BUILDING
MAYDAYS MAYDAYS MAYDAYS
WAS GOING TO COLLAPSE THOUGHT WAS GOING TO BE TRAMPLED TO DEATH TRIED TO RUN TOO
MAYBE RAN LIKE BLOCK NORTH MORE THEN KNELT DOWN WAS
TOTALLY SHOT
SHORT WHILE LADY AN ARMY PARAMEDIC
CAME UP TO ME HE SAID ARE YOU ALL RIGHT
ALL RIGHT JUST FEEL COLD
REMEMBERED IT WAS
FREEZING
SO HE STARTS ASKING ME QUESTIONS WAS OVERWEIGHT DO YOU HAVE SHORTNESS OF
BREATH YEAH HAD SHORTNESS OF BREATH HE
SAID YEAH IM HE SAID ITS
WARM DAY AND WAS
BEAUTIFUL DAY
THOUGHT SCARED TOO HE
WAS HAVING HEART ATTACK GOT THOUGHT WAS HAVING HEART ATTACK
GAVE ME NITROGLYCERIN PILL HE
FLAGGED DOWN TWO EMS GUYS
THEY GOT AN AMBULANCE WITH THE WINDOWS

GREEN 24
BLOWN OUT IT HAD NO EQUIPMENT IN IT JUST STRETCHER THEY PUT ME ON THE STRETCHER THEY
BROUGHT ME TO ST VINCENTS HOSPITAL THEY DECONNED ME OUTSIDE THEY BROUGHT ME INTO THE
EMERGENCY ROOM
IT SEEMED LIKE WHOLE TEAM WAS WORKING
ON ME AFTER EVALUATING ME AND LOOKING FOR
INJURIES THEY SAID THEY DONT THINK HAD CARDIAC EPISODE BUT INHALED LOT OF CRAP
THEY ADMITTED ME TO ST VINCENTS HOSPITAL WAS THERE FOR TWO DAYS
LATE IN THE EVENING IS WHEN SEVERAL MEMBERS OF MY COMPANY FOUND ME IN THE HOSPITAL APPARENTLY WAS AMONG THE MISSING DIDNT KNOW
FIRST AT THE DOOR TOLD THE NURSE CALL MY FIREHOUSE SHE HAD CONTACT WITH SOMEONE BUT
IT PROBABLY WASNT SOMEONE FROM MY COMPANY IT WAS SOMEONE WHO KNOWS TO LET THEM KNOW WAS IN THE HOSPITAL AND ALL RIGHT
THE CAPTAIN AND SEVERAL MEMBERS CAME
IT WAS CAPTAIN SAKOWICH HE SAID WE GOTTA KNOW
WHERE YOU WERE OPERATING BECAUSE NO ONE KNOWS
NOTHING BASICALLY
DESCRIBED WHERE WE WERE IN

GREEN 25
THE STAIRCASE IT WAS PRETTY MUCH IN THE
CENTER OF THE CORE IT WAS ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE ELEVATORS BUT IT WAS PRETTY MUCH IN THE CORE AND WE WERE WORKING OUR WAY DOWN YOU KNOW
WHEN WE WERE ON 31 WE STARTED
WE TRIED TO MAKE THE 44TH FLOOR THERE WAS
UP
REPORT OF AN ELEVATOR ON THE 44TH FLOOR THAT
WENT INTO THE 60S SO GAVE HIM ALL THE INFORMATION WHERE WE WERE
CHIEF MALKIN WELL HAVE TO BREAK FOR ONE MINUTE ITS 1429 HOURS THERE
PHONE CALL
INTERRUPTION
CHIEF MALKIN THE INTERVIEW RESUMES AT
1431 HOURS
THINK GOT TO THE HOSPITAL LIKE
APPROXIMATELY HAD ME UP IN FIREHOUSE AT
1130 AM MAYBE 12 NOON THEY ROOM BY 1230 THEY CONTACTED MY PM THE NURSE CONTACTED MY WIFE
WENT ON THE PHONE WITH MY WIFE AND TOLD HER JUST GO HOME ITS WAR DOWN HERE OF COURSE SHE DIDNT SHE CAME DOWN TO THE HOSPITAL AND SHE STAYED WITH ME LIKE THE NEXT 30 HOURS
LIKE SAID CAPTAIN SAKOWICH IN THE
GOING

GREEN 26
EVENING IT MIGHT HAVE HEEN 10 11 IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN MIDNIGHT CAME TO THE HOSPITAL WITH
SEVERAL MEMBERS FROM MY COMPANY HE SAID WHERE WERE YOU OPERATING WEVE GOT TO KNOW WHERE
YOURE OPERATING NO ONE KNOWS NOTHING
SO TOLD HIM WHERE WE WERE IN THAT
STAIRCASE EXPLAINED THE WHOLE THING TO HIM GUESS WAS KIND OF EMOTIONAL
SO THEY LEFT THEY DIDNT TELL ME THEY DIDNT FIND ANY OF THE GUYS YET BUT COULD SEE
IT IN THEIR EYES KNEW THAT THEY DIDNT FIND ANYBODY ELSE
TURNED ON THE TV THEN THINK ITS ABOUT MIDNIGHT ONLY ONE CHANNEL CAME IN
CHANNEL AND IT WAS VERY FUZZY THATS WHEN LEARNED THAT THE PLANES WERE STRUCK BY JETLINERS
NEVER THOUGHT IT WAS JETLINERS YOU KNOW

GREEN 27
ANOTHER LIEUTENANT ATLAS LIEUTENANT ATLASS BROTHER CAME IN AND WAS ASKING ME HAD
SEEN HIS NAME HE SAID YOU KNOW MY BROTHER SAID YEAH 10 ENGINE SAID BELIEVE HE
WAS ABOVE ME DONT THINK HE MADE IT
WAS RELEASED FROM THE HOSPITAL THURSDAY AFTERNOON CAME TO THE FIREHOUSE
THATS WHEN LEARNED THE FOUR GUYS ENTERED THE
BUILDING WITH WERE MISSING AND THEY TOLD ME AN EXTENSIVE SEARCH WAS BEING DONE
TWO RETIRED MEMBERS BROUGHT ME HOME THAT NIGHT THE NEXT MORNING RETIRED MEMBER
PICKED ME UP WE CAME IN AND WENT DOWN TO GROUND ZERO AND TRIED TO HELP WITH THE LINE ON
THE PILE IT REALLY WASNT GOOD FOR ME WAS COUGHING LOT HAD PAPER MASK FOR
PROTECTION YOU KNOW THE STORY
EVERYBODY WAS KIND OF UPSET BECAUSE WE
WERE WORKING WHERE THREE WORLD TRADE CENTER WAS SAID THE GUYS ARE GOING TO BE WHERE ONE WAS
BUT THEY ASSURED ME THAT NO THEY WERE WORKING THERE EARLIER AND THEY NEEDED SOME CRANES TO MOVE

GREEN 28
SOME STUFF OUT OF THE WAY SO THEY COULD GET IN THERE MORE
GUESS THATS ABOUT IT
THATS ABOUT IT LET ME ASK YOU
SOMETHING
SURE
WHEN YOU WENT IN THE LOBBY AND YOU TALKED ABOUT THE ELEVATOR DOORS THAT ALL SOME
WERE BLOWN WHAT DID THEY LOOK LIKE
THERE WERE ELEVATOR DOORS THAT WERE
MISSING
AJAR
THE SHAFT
MISSING
THERE WERE ELEVATOR DOORS THAT WERE
RIGHT
COULD SEE AN ELEVATOR CAR TWISTED IN
WAS THERE FIRE IN THE ELEVATOR SHAFT WAS THERE SMOKE ANY EVIDENCE OF FIRE DROPPING DOWN TO THAT LEVEL
THAT RUBBLE WAS BURNT RUBBLE IVE COME TO LEARN FROM GUYS BEHIND ME THEY SAID IT
WAS BURNT BODIES LIKE SAID MY FIRST INSTINCT WAS TO LOOK UP THOUGHT THE CEILING MIGHT HAVE

GREEN 29
COME DOWN BUT THE CEILING WAS INTACT THEN WAS THINKING WELL MAYBE THE FLOOR HAD BLOWN UP
FROM THE BOTTOM GUESS MY MIND WAS PROCESSING PROCESSING WHAT THIS RUBBLE COULD BE IT
COULDNT BE WHAT IT WAS
WHAT WERE YOUR INSTRUCTIONS IN THE LOBBY THE OFFICER REPORTED IN TO THE COMMAND
POST
THE OFFICER REPORTED IN TO THE COMMAND POST AND THEN HE CAME OVER TO US AND SAID
WERE GOING TO TAKE THE STAIRCASE THE ATTACK STAIRCASE STAIRCASE IS THE ATTACK STAIRCASE AND WERE GOING TO START WALKING
YOU WERE TAKING THE HOSE UP DID YOU GET THE IMPRESSION THE IDEA WAS LIKE YOU WERE GOING TO FIGHT THE FIRE OR WHAT
WE WERE GOING TO PUT THE FIRE OUT YOU WERE GOING TO PUT THE FIRE OUT

OKAY
GUESS STUDYING
JUST LIKE WAS STUDYING WAS
GREEN 30
EVEN LIKE IN HINDSIGHT IM THINKING NOW THE STANDPIPE MUST HAVE BEEN COMPROMISED THAT FIRST TEN STORIES THE WATER WAS FALLING DOWN
LIKE RAPIDS ANKLE DEEP YOU GET TUNNEL VISION
OR THE TIME OF THE EXPLOSION WHEN WE SAW THE EXPLOSION AND THEN WHEN WE GOT TO THE FRONT MAYBE IT WAS FOUR MINUTES MULTIPLE FLOORS WERE ON FIRE NOW STEEL FAILS IN 20 MINUTES WHAT WERE WE THINKING IF WE HAD TO WALK UP THERE
FORGOT ON THE 31ST
LONG
SOMETHING ELSE FORGOT AS WE WERE HEADING UP AFTER THAT SECOND PLANE HIT AND
THATS THE WAY HEARD IT HANDY TALKY TRANSMISSION ANOTHER PLANE ANOTHER PLANE
KNOW SOMETHING FLOOR THINK THERE WAS
HANDY TALKY MEMBER OF RESCUE
TRANSMISSION THINK
HE SAID BE ADVISED IT TAKES AN HOUR AND 15 MINUTES TO GET TO THE 31ST FLOOR SAID AN HOUR AND 15 MINUTES THAT SEEMS LIKE
TIME YOU KNOW BUT THINK THATS WHAT IT WAS

GREEN 31
SMALL RUMBLE AND ANOTHER PLANE JUST HIT THE SOUTH TOWER
WE ALSO STARTED HEARING REPORTS FROM CIVILIANS THE PENTAGON GOT HIT THE WHITE HOUSE GOT HIT THE CAPITAL GOT HIT THE SEARS TOWER GOT HIT WE THOUGHT IT WAS WAR IT WAS WAR
IT WAS WAR
WHEN THAT GUY FROM RESCUE WENT ON THE
HANDY TALKY AND SAID BE ADVISED AN HOUR AND 15 MINUTES IN OTHER WORDS WE WERE AN HOUR AND 15 MINUTES INTO THE OPERATION
BELIEVE SO
SAYING ITS AN HOUR AND 15 JUST ON THE 31ST FLOOR
TO GIVE SOME ESTIMATE OF HOW WE
GOING UP SO
LOBBY DID YOU SEE WHO HE REPORTED IN TO DID YOU RECOGNIZE ANY CHIEFS WAS BATTALION THERE
THINK BATTALION HAD JUST GOTTEN IN WHEN WE GOT THERE
HE WAS MINUTES AND IM
RIGHT THIS IS
WERE PROGRESSING THINK
EXACTLY
WHEN YOUR OFFICER REPORTED IN THE
RIGHT YEAH

GREEN 32
DID BATTALION GIVE HIM THE ORDERS TO TAKE YOUR COMPANY AND GO UP AND DO WHATEVER YOU
DONT KNOW WHO HE REPORTED TO NO
OKAY THATS GOOD
THERE WERE LOT OF OFFICERS THERE REMEMBER WHEN WE FIRST GOT THERE SQUAD 18 WAS THERE THEY WERENT EVEN IN THEIR RIG THEY WERE IN THE BUILDING DONT THINK THEY WERE IN THE LOBBY THINK THEY HAD ALREADY STARTED
GOING UP GUESS
THE OTHER UNITS KIND OF CONVERGED AT THE SAME TIME THEY WERE COMING FROM DIFFERENT
DIRECTIONS GATHER THEIR EQUIPMENT AND RUN IN REMEMBER THERE WAS DECORATIVE WALL
IN FRONT OF ONE WORLD TOWER IT WAS LIKE
DRIVEWAY THAT CAME UP IT WAS LIKE AN OVAL REMEMBER THERE WAS LIKE CONCRETE WALL THERE AND THERE WAS LADY SITTING ON THERE SHE WAS SHAKING SHE WAS BURNED LITTLE SHE WAS JUST SHAKING SHE WAS IN SHOCK BUT WE HAD TASK WE HAD TASK AT HAND WE WERE GOING TO PUT THE FIRE OUT AND WE WENT IN
REMEMBER SEEING PEOPLE JUMP WHEN WE

GREEN 33
WERE GOING IN IT LOOKED LIKE THEY WERE LANDING ON TOP OF SIX WORLD TRADE ANY MINUTE WE THOUGHT THEYCOULDLANDONUSSOWEHADTORUNIN WE HAD TO RUN IN
PRETTY MUCH IT GUESS SO YEAH
CHIEF MALKIN
FIREFIGHTER
1441 HOURS THIS
GREEN FOR
WANT TO THANK
THIS INTERVIEW ITS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW
File No. 9110393
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER THOMAS LYNN
   Interview Date:  December 26, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
T. LYNN 2
          CHIEF MALKIN:  Today is December 26th,
     2001.  The time is now 1549 hours.  This is
     Battalion Chief Malkin of the Safety
     Battalion of the Fire Department, City of
     New York.  I'm conducting an interview with
     Fireman First Grade Thomas Lynn of Engine
     Company 5.  We are in Engine Company 5's
     company office.  There is nobody else
     present at this time.  The interview is in
     regard to the events of September 11th,
     2001.  What follows now is the interview.
     A.   I came in on the morning of the 11th,
and the company ended up going on a run and had
enough members where they didn't need me to go on
the rig.  They went to a box which turned out to
be a false alarm.  From that box they responded
directly on the second alarm to the World Trade
Center.
          Hearing what was happening from the
house watch, another member came in, Richard
Carletti, and we took his car down and proceeded
down towards the towers.  We ended up parking his
car by 6 Engine.  We walked from there with our
gear but no air tanks.  We just had our gear with
T. LYNN 3
us.  We ended up walking down Liberty Street,
past the World Trade Center, which is Two World
Trade Center.
          We basically saw a lot of body parts
and plane wreckage that was just all over the
street.  We just basically walked by that.  We
were walking down towards West Street, I guess it
is, to the staging area, which was I guess across
the street from the Vista Hotel, more in line
with the building that holds the Winter Garden
theater.
Q. Right.
     A.   From there we went from rig to rig to
see if we could locate 5 Engine's rig and see if
we could get air tanks.  Once we did, we went
back to the staging area.  I told the chief that
we were from 5 Engine -- I'm not sure which chief
it was -- and that our members were in the north
tower and we were ready to go in.  Actually I
said we were thinking of going in.  He said, "No,
no.  You wait here.  I'm putting a team
together."  He put us with a captain from 91
Engine, and we were standing fast there.
          Then the south tower came down, and
T. LYNN 4
everybody just ran.  We ran into the building
where the Winter Garden theater was, and the
debris was coming down.  We just kept on running
in there.  The front of it collapsed.
          Later we found out of where we went in,
and we came out on Vesey Street.  Yeah, we came
out on Vesey and the West Side Highway and
proceeded north on --
     Q.   West Street.
     A.   -- West Street until it cleared up a
little bit.  There were fires in the parking lot
where Vesey Street and Murray Street was, and I
ended up helping, with Carletti, helping
stretching lines to put out those fires.  There
was really no hydrant pressure at that point.
     Q.   Where did you get the lines from?
     A.   I'm not sure which rigs.  Whatever rigs
were parked right around that area.  Those rigs
were still okay from the collapse of the south
tower.
          I just wanted to make note that
Lieutenant Paul Mitchell, who was getting off
that morning, from our firehouse, I met him at
the staging area before the collapse of the south
T. LYNN 5
tower and talked to him briefly.  I thought he
was still on duty, but he had actually gotten off
duty that morning and came back and responded
there.
          He, I believe, was sent in moments or
minutes before the south tower collapsed.  I
believe he was sent into the south tower before.
It seemed like almost right after he was sent in
it collapsed.
     Q.   You saw him before that?
     A.   Yeah.  I saw him at the staging area.
     Q.   Where was the staging area?
     A.   The staging area was on West Street at
the West Side Highway in front of the financial
building which houses the Winter Garden.  There
was a garage area that went down into the
financial building, and that was basically where
the board was set up.
          I know I saw Von Essen there at one
point, and I think Ganci and all those other
chiefs were there also.
     Q.   This is the Winter Garden here.
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   So it was somewhere in this area, on
T. LYNN 6
West Street somewhere in front of the Winter
Garden?
A. Yeah.
     Q.   The staging area was in that area, you
said?
A. Yes.
     Q.   You said that you saw your company
officer --
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   -- and he went to the south tower?
     A.   Right.  I believe he went into the
south tower.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   So after that south tower collapsed,
all the maydays came in, and you could hear
everybody was asked to get out of the north
tower, evacuate the north tower.  We were looking
for our members from 5 Engine and did meet up
with some of them.
          So we regrouped.  We moved 5 Engine's
rig, which was originally parked on West Street
and between Vesey and Barclay, and we ended up
moving the rig up to Murray Street off of West
Street.
T. LYNN 7
          Then from there the members -- once we
regrouped, though there was a missing member at
that time, though there were a lot of maydays for
missing members, so the lieutenant decided let's
take the rig and we'll go around the whole area
and back and get as close as we can to the
towers.  This is after the second tower
collapsed, now.  I guess I'm jumping the gun.  A
little after we moved the rig, the second tower
came down.
     Q.   Where were you when the second tower
came down?
     A.   When the second tower came down, I
probably was about around Barclay.
     Q.   Still on West Street?
     A.   Yeah, still on West Street.
     Q.   The company was still there?
     A.   Yeah, still there.
     Q.   I'm confused.  There was an officer
with you at this point to order the movement of
the rig?
     A.   Yeah, once we all got together.
     Q.   Was he on duty or the other guy was on
duty?
T. LYNN 8
     A.   No, he was on duty.
     Q.   He was on duty.  Who was the other
officer?
     A.   He relieved Lieutenant Mitchell in the
morning.  So Lieutenant Paul Mitchell, he had
been relieved.  From what I understand, he went
all the way to Brooklyn, heard what had happened
and then drove his car all the way back and ended
up --
     Q.   That's the lieutenant that went to the
south tower?  I'm confused.
A. Yeah.
     Q.   Okay.  He's the one that went to the
south tower.
A. Yeah.
     Q.   Now you had the on-duty officer with
you at the rig?
     A.   Yeah.  They were in the north tower.
     Q.   Right.
     A.   They were in the north tower.  They got
out of there before the collapse, barely, except
for one of ours, Manny Delvalle.
          Then we proceeded around to Trinity
Street with the rig after that and ended up
T. LYNN 9
taking a hydrant.  Then we walked down I guess it
was like Albany Street and then down to the west
side to try to get closer.
          Then we ended up not being able to do
anything down there.  So we walked back up to
Trinity, moved the rig to I guess it was around
Cortlandt Street and Trinity, took a hydrant.
Then I think we walked down I think it was Vesey
Street, but I'm not sure.  We ended up helping
hook up to tower Ladder 119 from the rig of 41
Engine.  We were supplying the tower ladder,
putting out fire in the --
     Q.   What were the conditions now as you
were walking around here?  What were the
conditions in the World Trade Center?  Was there
a lot of fire?
     A.   There was a lot of fire in I guess it
would be World Trade Center northeast plaza.  I'm
not sure.  Unless it was the federal office
building and the U.S. post office.  I'm not sure.
Or it could have even been Seven World Trade
Center, now that I'm looking at the map.
     Q.   That's this building right here.
     A.   Yeah, I think that was the one that was
T. LYNN 10
on fire that we were supplying 119 with.
     Q.   119 was working into that building to
put out fire in that building?
     A.   Yeah.  I think -- yeah, that must have
been the building that was on fire at the time.
          So we primarily worked on that, and my
time is way off on what happened or how long we
operated.  It seemed like forever.
     Q.   Where was your rig at this time?  It
was still back on Trinity?
     A.   I believe our rig was on Trinity or it
could have even been Broadway between Cortlandt
and Dey, I believe.
     Q.   What were you guys doing with 119 now?
You supplied them?  You got a line from
someplace?
     A.   Yeah.  Actually we hooked up a line
into a basement of one of the office buildings
there, the riser.  I'm not sure which officer
turned on the pump station in the building, which
created like 90 pounds of pressure, which was
plenty of pressure and a lot more pressure than
any of the hydrants had at that time.  I don't
know who thought of that, but that was great.  So
T. LYNN 11
41 Engine had plenty of water.
          Yeah, that's what we did.
     Q.   You operated there for some time at
that location?
     A.   Yeah, for some time.
     Q.   Did you operate a line there?  When you
say that there was plenty of pressure --
     A.   No.
     Q.   -- were you guys operating a line?
     A.   No, no, we weren't operating a line.
     Q.   What do you remember after that?
     A.   I remember meeting up with other -- we
went back to the rig and took a blow and met up
with other members that had come down from the
company.  I just remember being very exhausted at
that point.
     Q.   The guys on duty from 5 Engine that you
met, they couldn't account for the guys that were
missing; right?  They didn't know where they
were?  Was there an organized effort to go back
and find them?
     A.   I don't really know.
     Q.   You're not aware?
     A.   I don't really know.  I don't know if
T. LYNN 12
they were really aware of that, because of all
the different transmissions and everything,
whether or not -- maybe it seemed unbelievable.
It seemed unbelievable to me -- I guess I can
only speak for myself -- that one of the members
was missing.  I didn't know that he had gotten
separated from the rest of the company.
     Q.   They were in the north tower at some
point, and they got separated?
     A.   Yeah.  But I wasn't in the north tower,
so I don't know exactly what happened.  So maybe
I shouldn't speculate.
          That's it.  That's basically it.
     Q.   After you finished operating with 119,
what did you say, you went back by the rig?
     A.   Yeah, we went back by the rig and took
a blow.  Then we ended up getting transported
back to the firehouse.  That might have been like
8:00 at night or something.  Then we made a
determination of what groups were going to
continue on.  I myself was relieved at like 10:30
that night, and then I worked the next day.
          That's it.
     Q.   Okay.  Pretty good.
T. LYNN 13
     CHIEF MALKIN:  The interview is
concluded.  The time is now 1604.  This
concludes the interview with Firefighter
First Grade Thomas Lynn of Engine 5, and I
thank the fireman for this interview.
File No. 9110394
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        LIEUTENANT SPIRO YIORAS
   Interview Date: December 28, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
S. YIORAS
2
          MR. CUNDARI:  Today's date is December 28,
2001.  The time is 10:28 in the morning.  I'm George
Cundari of the New York City Fire Department.  I am
conducting an interview with the following individual:
     Q.   Please state your name, rank, title and
assigned command.
     A.   My name is Spiro Yioras, rank is Lieutenant,
command is Battalion 49, Division 4.
     Q.   Lieutenant, can you please tell us the events
regarding that tragic day of September 11th?
     A.   On that day I was taken out of my battalion
and redeployed to Battalion 46 for the tour due to no
coverage over there.  Initially, I was out on patrol
when I heard a call come over the radio that there was
a fire at the World Trade Center.  Trying to find out
more information, I got a message from Captain DeShore
from Battalion 46 to come back to the station because
we might be responding down there.  As I responded back
to the station at Battalion 46, we were watching the TV
news, watching what was going on, and we saw the second
plane hit the tower.  Immediately we locked up the
offices and we went right down to the Trade Center.
          When we first got down there, we stationed on
the corner of West Street and Vesey.
S. YIORAS
3
     Q.   How did you get there?  What route did you
take?
     A.   We took the 59th Street bridge over, down
Second Avenue, and when we got down to like the 20s, we
crossed over to the west side and we went straight down
to the Trade Center.
          Upon arriving on the scene, we met up with I
believe Captain Wells from ERS.  He was there.  He was
in charge of the scene and he gave us all assignments.
I was assigned to staging.  While I was doing staging,
someone else appeared on the scene.  I think it was
Conditions 8.  He already had started staging before I
got there.  Since he had everything under control, I
went back to find Captain Wells and Captain DeShore and
see what else they wanted me to do, how I was to be
utilized.
          Upon going back to the corner of West and
Vesey, I don't know how long I was on the scene, it
must have been like about maybe 20 minutes, 30 minutes,
before the first tower collapsed.  I just heard a
rumbling noise and looked up and I saw parts of the
building coming down and I just started running uptown
on West Street.
     Q.   Prior to that collapse, did you see people,
4
     A.   There were injuries there.  There were people
being loaded into the back of ambulances.  I saw some
of the people from Battalion 49 like Lillo, Abrille.
They were working 49 Victor.  I saw EMTs Paul Adams and
Mous Diaz.  They were working 45 Adam.  But once that
started happening, we all started running and I lost
track of them.
          I got caught up in the smoke and all the dust
from the building coming down, and as soon as the dust
and smoke cleared away, I went back to look for
personnel because I remembered where they had their
ambulances parked and basically it was in the area of
the collapse.  As I was searching for the crews, Lillo,
Abrille, Diaz and Adams, I was also searching for
Lieutenants Scaringello, Captain DeShore, for Captain
Wells also and anybody else that I could find.
          Walking down on West Street, I passed this
overpass, this white overpass that connected from the
Trade Center to across the street.  I believe it had to
be connected to the American Express building.  As I
went inside, through all the rubble, where all the
ambulances and all the fire trucks were, I saw body
S. YIORAS
injuries coming towards you; were there a lot of
people?
S. YIORAS
5
parts all over the place.  I only found one person
alive in the whole thing.  It was a black female, who I
believe worked for a private ambulance.  I'm not sure
if it was Metro Care or something like that.  She had a
broken leg.
          I yelled to some firemen that were standing
by I believe it must have been 1 World Trade Center
because No. 2 fell first, right?  Yes.  I had told
them, you know, if they could come and help me with
this female over here that had a broken leg, but they
had injuries that they were taking care of also.  Then
a couple of minutes later, about five, six people
showed up.  I think some were civilians and I think one
or two people were off-duty EMS personnel.  I really
don't know their names, but they were wearing IDs.
          We grabbed a stair chair out of one of the
damaged ambulances that were there.  I believe it was a
New York Hospital ambulance.  We took a stair chair.
We carried her across the rubble and I believe it was
to the American Express building, underneath that
overpass that connects to it.
          As soon as we got underneath the overpass,
the second tower collapsed.  A lot of it fell close to
the building and hit me.  A couple of things hit me.  I
S. YIORAS
6
don't know exactly what hit me.  I believe it was some
bricks or wood.  I really don't know.  I couldn't tell
you.  But it hurt.  It hurt.
          We got stuck inside the American Express
building.  We couldn't get out of there.  We couldn't
find no way.  We couldn't see anything.  We couldn't
breathe.  I mean, I thought I was going to buy it.  I
really thought I was going to die in there.
     Q.   Were you with other crew members, with the
patient, that girl?
     A.   With the patient and the people that helped
me take the patient out of there.  We were all stuck in
that building.  I can't tell you how long we were in
there.  It must have been about 15, 30 minutes.  I'm
just taking a wild guess.  I'm saying anywhere from 15
to 30 minutes before firemen came in and took us out
the back way of the building.  Initially, when we tried
to get out, all the doors were blocked from debris.  We
couldn't break any of the glass doors because they were
so thick.  I even tried breaking one of the glass doors
with an oxygen tank and it wouldn't even break.
          But finally, it seemed, like I said, 15 to 30
minutes before we got out with the firemen, and the
only reason they came in and got us out was because
S. YIORAS
7
they saw us go into the building after the second
collapse.  I should say before the second collapse they
saw us go into the building.
          Basically, they took me to the treatment
center and gave me a little bit of oxygen, but then I
went right back out there.  I went back out there
looking for my guys and everything else.  I found a
couple of them.  I couldn't find Lillo.  Abrille, I
couldn't find him either, but I had heard word that he
was safe; he might have been injured but he was safe.
He was down in Battery Park, I believe.  One of the
other crews from 45 Adam, I found Mr. Adams roaming
around and he was looking for his partner, Mr. Diaz.
But we later found out that Mr. Diaz was in the
hospital being treated for a head injury, a minor head
injury.
          Basically, for the rest of the day we were
just looking for crew members, firemen.  We were
looking for any patients or anybody that we could find,
and basically that was it.
     Q.   Were your radios working at that time?
     A.   The radio was working.  That's another thing
I have to say.  Initially, when I found that patient
after the first collapse, I had called on the radio to
S. YIORAS
8
the command center to see if they could send me
somebody over to help me with the patient, and they had
said something like, "We have a lot of patients out
here and we're trying to deal with it.  See if you
could deal with it by yourself inside over there where
you are."  After that, luckily, the other people came
by and they helped me.  But otherwise, most of the time
I didn't hear anything on the radio except for that one
little conversation that I had.
     Q.   In the parking garage, you didn't see any
Chiefs or anyone higher than what you were?
     A.   You know, they might have been.
     Q.   You couldn't see anything?
     A.   But I really couldn't see who it was.  I know
I saw the Chiefs with the white hats, they were out
there and everything else, but I just couldn't tell you
who it was.  I really couldn't name them.  I know after
the second collapse I saw Chief McCracken, Chief
Villani, and they were all heading down towards Battery
Park to regroup, and that was like after the second
collapse.
     Q.   Basically, after the collapse, you really
found no patients?
     A.   No patients, nobody alive.  They wouldn't let
S. YIORAS
9
us go back into the scene.  They cordoned it off
because they wanted to keep as many people out because
they didn't know what else was going to happen, and
they also said that some of the other buildings might
not be safe also.  So, basically, we tried to see if
there were any patients or anybody coming up to us.
But by then everybody had either been dispersed or been
taken over to the treatment center at Stuyvesant High
School, I think it was.  Basically that was it.
          MR. CUNDARI:  Lieutenant, I'd like to thank
you for taking your time and conducting this
interview.  This concludes the interview.  The time now
is 10:40.

FILE NO 9110395
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW RONALD COYNE
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 28 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY MAUREEN MCCORMICK

COMMAND
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME RANK AND ASSIGNED
RONALD THOMAS COYNE EMT BATTALION 44
MR CUNDARI THE DATE IS DECEMBER 28 2001 THE TIME IS 1122 HOURS IM GEORGE CUNDARI NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT AM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
EMT COYNE CAN YOU PLEASE TELL US THE EVENTS OF THAT TRAGIC DAY OF SEPTEMBER 11
ON SEPTEMBER 11 WE HAD JUST FINISHED
DROPPING OFF PATIENT AT KINGS COUNTY HOSPITAL AND AT
APPROXIMATELY 848 AM WE HEARD SCREAMING OVER THE RADIO WE WERE JUST ABOUT GOING AVAILABLE CALLED THE DISPATCHER AND SAID IF SHE NEEDED US BECAUSE WASNT SURE WHERE EXACTLY THIS INCIDENT WAS TAKING PLACE BUT TOLD THE DISPATCHER WE WERE AVAILABLE TO GO WHEREVER THEY NEEDED US
SHE DESIGNATED US LOWER MANHATTAN FOR WHAT AT
CONSIDERING IT TO BE JUST WE SHOT DOWN OVER
TO GO TO VESEY STREET IN THE TIME THEY WERE
PLANE ACCIDENT
BY THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE
WHEN WE WENT OVER THE BRIDGE WE NOTICED BOTH TOWERS WERE ON FIRE WE MADE THE TURN AROUND OFF THE BROOKLYN
BRIDGE TO GO ON THE FDR AND WE WERE STOPPED BY THE

RONALD COYNE
POLICE DEPARTMENT TO ASK IF WE CAN CARRY DOCTOR
GOT ON THE RADIO AND NOTIFIED THE DISPATCHER THAT WE
WERE GOING TO TRANSPORT THE DOCTOR OVER TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
THEY ACKNOWLEDGED IT AND WHEN WE CAME OUT OF THE TUNNEL OF IM NOT SURE WHAT STREET YOU CALL IT
GUESS THE WESTSIDE HIGHWAY THE TUNNEL OUT OF THE
FDR WE GOT APPROXIMATELY OVER TO THE VISTA HOTEL WHICH WAS ON LIBERTY BETWEEN LIBERTY AND THE FIRST
BUILDING AND AT THAT TIME WE SAW PEOPLE RUNNING TOWARDS US AND CARS GATHERING ALL OVER THE PLACE
POLICE CARS AMBULANCES AND THEN WE NOTICED THE TOWER WAS COMING DOWN
WHEN YOU FIRST ARRIVED THE TOWERS STARTED
COLLAPSING
SOON AS WE ARRIVED THE SOUTH THE NORTH TOWER HAD COME DOWN KNOW IT SOUNDS WEIRD BUT THATS THE WAY IT WAS
THERE IS NORTH TOWER SOUTH TOWER YOU THINK THE SOUTH TOWER WAS THE FIRST COLLAPSE YOU MEAN
BEFORE THE FIRST COLLAPSE OR THE
WAS THERE WHEN THE FIRST COLLAPSE HAPPENED
SO IT WAS MOST LIKELY THE SOUTH TOWER SO THEN IT WAS THE SOUTH

YEAH
RONALD COYNE
OKAY COULD BE WRONG IN THE WAY THIS IS THE TOWER HAD COLLAPSED THERE WAS DEBRIS FROM THE
ROOF HITTING THE FRONT OF THE AMBULANCE AND WE COULDNT SEE THING COULDNT BACK UP COULDNT
GO FORWARD THERE WERE TOO MANY PEDESTRIANS RUNNING AROUND
DECIDED AT THAT TIME TO SHUT OFF ALL THE
VENTS KEEP THE LIGHTS ON AND TOLD MY PARTNER WHO WAS SMALL ENOUGH TO TRY AND CLIMB THROUGH THE BACK
WINDOW THAT SEPARATES THE CAB AND THE BACK OF THE BUS TO GO INTO THE BACK WITH THE DOCTOR AND AT THAT TIME
HAD ASKED THE DOCTOR TO OPEN UP THE NBC KIT DO YOU KNOW THE DOCTORS NAME
DONT REMEMBER OFFHAND
IT STARTED TO SNOW GRAY AND COULD START
GETTING LITTLE FIELD OF VISION DECIDED AT THIS POINT WHERE BECAUSE TRAFFIC WAS STUCK BEHIND US AND
ON THE SIDE OF US THAT WE WOULD KEEP THE AMBULANCE WHERE IT WAS
GOT OUT AND STARTED PICKING UP THESE LITTLE OLD MEN WHO WERE TRYING THE CROSS THE STREET
AND THEY COULDNT BREATHE AND PICKED THEM UP OVER MY SHOULDER TWO BY TWO AND CARRIED THEM TO THE BACK OF

RONALD COYNE
THE AMBULANCE AND PACKED IN APPROXIMATELY 15 PEOPLE WITH THAT SAW POLAND SPRING TRUCK AND
THE GUY TOLD ME TO START HANDING OUT WATER IF NEEDED IT AND TOOK TWO CASES AND STARTED HEADING OUT TO THE FIRST TOWER THAT FELL WAS GIVING OUT WATER TO
PEOPLE AS THEY WERE WALKING BY TELLING THEM WHERE MY AMBULANCE WAS SO THEY COULD BE TRIAGED THERE AND THEN SENT OVER TO WHEREVER THEY WERE GOING TO SEND THEM
DID YOU HAVE ANY RADIO COMMUNICATIONS AT THAT
TIME
COULDNT HEAR ANYTHING THE DISPATCHER COULDNT HEAR ME COULDNT REACH THE DISPATCHER MY
PORTABLE
UP THERE WE HAD
WASNT WORKING
MY MAIN CONCERN WAS KNEW THAT WE HAD PEOPLE
KNEW WE HAD OUR OWN UP THERE AND KNEW LOT OF CIVILIANS OVER THERE AND JUST WANTED
TO GET UP AND TRY AND DO RAPID TRIAGE AS FAST AS POSSIBLE
MY PARTNER IS VERY NEW ON THE JOB YOU KNOW DIDNT THINK SHE WOULD BE AS WELL SUITED TO DO THAT
JOB RIGHT THEN AND THERE SO AS WENT UP TOWARDS THE NORTH BUILDING NOTICED COULDNT GAIN ENTRANCE AROUND THAT AREA BECAUSE OF THE DESTRUCTION OF THE
VEHICLES THE BUILDING SO WHAT DID WAS WENT UP

RONALD COYNE
WOULD SAY AROUND CEDAR OR BARCLAY NO CEDAR IM NOT SURE WHICH WAY THIS IS GOING
THIS IS NORTH THIS IS SOUTH ON THE MAP YOU STARTED HEADING NORTH
STARTED UP HEADING UP OUT OF THE TUNNEL
YES YOU CAME OUT OF THE TUNNEL WHICH IS NOT
THE BATTERY TUNNEL BUT BY THE FERRY CORRECT YES
FIRST
YOU SAID THAT WAS THE WESTSIDE HIGHWAY
RIGHT WE WERE HERE THIS BUILDING CAME DOWN
THE NORTH TOWER YOU MEAN
COULDNT GAIN ENTRY TO THE SOUTH TOWER SO
WHAT DID WAS WALKED AROUND TRINITY AND WALKED UP IN BETWEEN THE TOWERS OVER BY WASHINGTON AVENUE AND
CAME UP IN BETWEEN THE CUSTOMS BUILDING AND THE WORLD
TRADE CENTER NORTHEAST PLAZA OF THE BUILDING AND
EXPLAINED THERE WAS GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT WERE TRYING TO OPEN UP THE EXIT DOOR ON WORLD TRADE
CENTER BUT THEY COULDNT BECAUSE OF DEBRIS THAT HAD FALLEN ALL OVER THE PLACE SO CLEARED THE DEBRIS AND
WENT IN THE BASEMENT AND HAD COUNTED 25 PEOPLE TOLD THEM YOU KNOW THERE WERE ALL
GUYS TOLD THEM TO GATHER AROUND FIVE GALLON WATER

RONALD COYNE
BOTTLES SHOWED THEM HOW TO MAKE MAKE SHIFT MASKS AND WAS THERE TO LEAD THEM OVER TOWARDS THE PIER
WHERE THEY WERE PICKING PEOPLE UP AT THAT POINT IN TIME YOU KNOW HAD TIME TO DO SIX MASKS BY THIS
POINT AND AT THAT TIME WENT BACK UP THE SAME STREET
THE SAME ROUTE AROUND WASHINGTON AVENUE AND CAME UP
IN BETWEEN THE BUILDINGS AND WAS LOOKING AT THE CAR GARAGES AND THE CARS IN THE STREET AND ME AND THREE BUDDIES OF MINE FROM STREET CRIME WERE BREAKING WINDOWS IN THE CARS TO LOOK FOR INFANTS AND ADULTS UNCONSCIOUS ADULTS BECAUSE THERE WAS SO MUCH DUST ON THEM THAT WE COULDNT SEE THROUGH
AT THAT POINT JUST HEARD THUNDEROUS SOUND AND LOOKED UP AND SAW THE BUILDING START TO TOPPLE START TO SWAY AND IT WAS SWAYING OUR WAY AND WE JUST YELLED RUN AND TRIED TO RUN AS FAST AS COULD AND SAW AN SUV PARKED AND FIGURED THAT THAT WOULD TAKE SOME YOU KNOW SOME OF THE HIT BECAUSE
KNEW COULDNT OUT RUN THE BUILDING AND BY THE TIME
IT TOOK ME TO BREAK THE BACK WINDOW OF THE SUV MY SAFETY COAT WAS ALREADY ON FIRE MY SOCKS WERE ON
FIRE WAS ALREADY COVERED WITH SOOT AND ALL SORTS OF
PARTICLES THAT WERE COMING OUT OF THE BUILDING
CLIMBED INTO THE TRUCK AND THATS WHEN PIECES OF THE

RONALD COYNE
BUILDING LIFTED THE TRUCK AND CAME THROUGH THE FRONT WINDOW AND FLIPPED THE TRUCK OVER AND WAS TRAPPED IN
THERE FOR APPROXIMATELY 25 MINUTES TO HALF HOUR
WAS FALLING ASLEEP KNEW WAS DYING JUST PRAYED THAT WOULDNT BE FOUND LIKE THAT FELT
AS IF SOMEBODY WAS GIVING ME FRESH OXYGEN WAS ABLE TO DIG MY WAY OUT MYSELF OUT OF THE TRUCK CRAWLED INTO THE STREET THROUGH ASH AND THE FIRE AND FOUND DOOR AND OPENED UP THE DOOR AND IT WAS TAVERN RAN OVER BEHIND THE BAR AND TOOK THE SELTZER
SPRAY AND STARTED WASHING MY EYES AND MY FACE BECAUSE IT WAS
BURNING AND WASHING MY BACK JUST WAS JUST COVERED WITH BURNS AND BRUISES AND COULDNT BREATHE AT ALL
WHAT LITTLE BREATH HAD WAS JUST WHATEVER COULD GET AFTER THAT IT STARTED TO CLEAR UP AGAIN SEARCHED THE ENTIRE BUILDING TO MAKE SURE THERE WAS NOBODY IN IT THERE WAS NOBODY FOUND WHATEVER APARTMENT DOORS WERE OPEN JUST TOOK PEAK IN TO SEE IF ANYBODY WAS ON THE FLOOR AND THEN AUTOMATICALLY LOCKED THE DOORS AND LEFT THEN LEFT THE BUILDING
AND WENT BACK TO TRY AND FIND MY PARTNER AND
NOTICED THAT LOT OF THE AMBULANCES WERE TORCHED FLIPPED OVER DEMOLISHED AND COULDNT FIND MY BUS

RONALD COYNE
ALL THE BUSES THERE WERE THE SAME DIDNT KNOW WHAT TO DO DIDNT KNOW WHAT TO THINK DIDNT KNOW
WHERE MY PARTNER WAS DIDNT KNOW WHERE THE DOCTOR
WAS AND WAS JUST WALKING AROUND AND BRINGING PEOPLE OVER TO STORES THAT HAD NOT BEEN AFFECTED BY IT AND
PUTTING THEM INSIDE THE STORES SO THAT THEY CAN AT LEAST GET SOME WATER AND AIR THEN ENDED UP RUNNING
INTO ONE OF THE ENGINE COMPANIES
EXPLAINED TO THE CAPTAIN WHO WAS
IDENTIFIED MYSELF SHOWED HIM MY SHIELD AND MY RANK AND TOLD HIM THAT COULDNT FIND ANYBODY ELSE FROM EMS AND THAT WOULD BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO STAY WITH THEM UNTIL COMMANDING OFFICER FINDS ME AND TELLS ME WHERE TO GO THAT WAS DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THE NORTH TOWER THERE WAS FRUIT PLACE OVER BY THE CORNER ON ONE OF THE CORNERS AND IT HAD ALREADY BEEN BLOWN APART BY THE BLAST AND THE COLLAPSE ENTERED IT
STARTED WASHING OFF FRUIT HAD FIREMEN COMPLAINING OF CRAMPING IN THEIR STOMACHS AND IN THEIR LEGS AND
KNEW THEIR POTASSIUM WAS DROPPING SO WAS BRINGING OUT BANANAS AND APPLES AND ALL SORTS OF FRUIT BASKETS OF THEM TO HAND THEM OUT TO THESE FIREMEN SO THAT THEY COULD CONTINUE TO DO THEIR JOB RAN INTO CHIEF MCCRACKEN AND HE HAD ASKED WHERE HAD BEEN AND

RONALD COYNE
EXPLAINED TO HIM THAT WAS TRAPPED IN THE VEHICLE FOR ABOUT HALF HOUR AND DIDNT KNOW WHERE ANYBODY
WAS COULDNT FIND MY PARTNER HE ORDERED ME TO GO
TO TRIAGE STATION AND START TRIAGING PATIENTS
SO AFTER HE POINTED OUT WHERE THE TRIAGE AREA
WAS FOUND MY PARTNER AND JUST FELL TO THE FLOOR AND STARTED TO CRY BECAUSE REALLY REALLY WOULD
NEVER FORGIVE MYSELF IF LOST HER WAS TRIAGING THE PATIENTS WITH THE MEDIC FROM ST MARYS AND MY PARTNER
AND WE KEPT TRYING TO GO IN AND WE WERE PULLING OUT BODIES
WAS ORDERED TO GO INTO THE AMBULANCES THAT WERE NEXT TO IT AND STRIP WHATEVER COULD OUT OF THEM ALS AND BLS SUPPLIES WE HAD NUMEROUS CONTAMINATED EQUIPMENT THAT WE WERE ME AND ONE OF THE BUDDY OF MINE WHOSE NAME IS ROGER FROM ST MARYS RAN OVER TO BEEKMAN TO DROP THEM OFF TO BE CLEANED OFF AND THEY GAVE US NEW AMBULANCE AND BROUGHT IT BACK
WE STILL COULDNT FIND OUR AMBULANCE WE DIDNT KNOW WHERE IT WAS SAW HANDS AND LEGS AND
SAW WOMAN IMPALED INTO WALL ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE BUILDING SAW PEOPLE JUMPING OUT OF THE WINDOWS
WHEN THEY WERE COLLAPSING GOING THROUGH CARS AND HITTING THE PAVEMENT AND THAT WAS ONLY EARLY IN THE
10

RONALD COYNE
MORNING WE SAT THERE ALL DAY TAKING CARE OF FIREMEN BASICALLY LIEUTENANT CAME UP TO ME AND TOLD ME THAT
DIDNT LOOK WELL THAT SHOULD SHOULD GO BACK
TO BROOKLYN AND GO GET CHECKED OUT KEPT TELLING HER THAT THERE WAS MORE WORK TO BE DONE SHE SAID SHE WAS
GOING TO CHECK ON ME IN LITTLE BIT AND 12 OCLOCK THAT NIGHT SHE DECIDED TO SEND ME BACK TO MY DIVISION
AT APPROXIMATELY 2330 TWELVE OCLOCK SHE DECIDED TO SEND ME BACK TO THE DIVISION
11

12
RONALD COYNE

13
RONALD COYNE

14
RONALD COYNE
MR CUNDARI ID LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR CONDUCTING THIS INTERVIEW THE TIME IS 1146
THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW

FILE NO 9110396
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER ROBERT NORRIS
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 27 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY MAUREEN MCCORMICK

BATTALION CHIEF MC GRATH THE DATE IS THURSDAY DECEMBER 27 2001 THE TIME IS 1407
AND THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF JAMES MCGRATH OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK
IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH FIREMAN PR NR ENGIN AND IM HRDDING THIS INTERVIEW REGARDING EVENTS THAT OCCURRED ON SEPTEMBER 11 2002
BOB IF YOU WOULD JUST STATE YOUR NAME AND COMPANY AND THEN IN YOUR OWN WORDS JUST START TELLING
ME WHAT HAPPENED FROM WHEN YOU RESPONDED UP UNTIL WHENEVER
MY NAME IS ROBERT NORRIS WORK ON THE
ENGINE 202 IN RED HOOK BROOKLYN
CAME TO WORK ON THAT MORNING ON SEPTEMBER
11 AT 530 IN THE MORNING TO DO SOME STUDYING FOR AN UPCOMING LIEUTENANTS EXAM WAS ON THE INCOMING BR LADDER 101 THAT DAY
ABOUT 730 IN THE MORNING HAD GONE DOWNSTAIRS TO TELL THE MEMBERS OF THE KITCHEN THAT
WAS DUE TO WORK IN THE TRUCK THAT ANYONE WHO WAS THERE WHO WAS GOING HOME THAT WAS THERE TO RELIEVE THEM AND THEY COULD TAKE UP SO AFTER THREE OR FOUR TIMES
TELLING EVERYONE THAT IM HERE NO ONE WOULD ANSWER
HOURS

NORRIS
ME SAID ILL BE BACK UPSTAIRS STUDYING WHENEVER SOMEONE WANTS TO GO HOME SEND HIM UPSTAIRS AND ILL RELIEVE THEM
WELL KEPT STUDYING TILL ABOUT 830 AND CAME BACK DOWNSTAIRS AND REPEATED AGAIN WHOS
GRDNG HR WH GRDNG HR NR
WR ANSW ME AND WITH CUP OF COFFEE WENT OUT ON THE APRON
AND THEN WE LOOKED AND SAW THAT THERE WAS CLOUD OF SMOKE COMING FROM OVER ONE OF THE BUILDINGS IN RED HOOK THAT NOTICED IT WAS COMING FROM MANHATTAN
MYSELF AND FEW OTHER MEMBERS RAN UP TO THE ROOF AND FROM THERE WE WERE ABLE TO SEE THAT THE TOWER HAD BEEN HIT OR THAT THE TOWER THERE WAS FIRE IN
IT AT THIS
TIME
ONE THING REMEMBERED THERE WERE SO MANY
PIECES OF PAPER FLYING AROUND THAT INITIALLY WE FELT THAT THERE WERE SEAGULLS JUST HOVERING AROUND THE
BUILDING IT WAS PRETTY REMARKABLE SIGHT
BUT AT THIS TIME IT WAS ABOUT QUARTER TO
MAYBE TWENTY TO IM NOT REALLY SURE WHAT TIME THE FIRST PLANE HIT SO WE CAME DOWNSTAIRS AND BEING
MILE AND HALF FROM THE SIGHT WE FELT IT WAS JUST MATTER OF TIME BEFORE WE WERE GOING TO BE SENT OVER
SO WE KEPT SAYING WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO

NORRIS
CALL US WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO CALL US AND TIME WENT
ON AND WENT ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND WE KEPT
SAYING WHOS GOING ON THE TRUCK AND THE TRUCK THEY WERE FILLED UP NO ONE WOULD LEAVE
SO IT TURNS OUT THEY DID SEND TICKET OVER TR TH RRRNIPANI IN TR GC TR WHATS CALLED THE STAGING AREA OUTSIDE THE ENTRANCE TO THE BROOKLYN BATTERY TUNNEL IN CONVOY FASHION THAT WHEN THEY WOULD NEED US THEY WOULD SEND US OVER
202 WAS THE FIRST ENGINE ON THE LINE WE WERE LINED UP ON HAMILTON AVENUE ON THE GUESS THE MANHATTAN BOUND SIDE OF HAMILTON AVENUE AT THE ENTRANCE TO THE TUNNEL AND RED HOOK IM
LADDER 101 WAS THE SECOND COMPANY ON THAT LINE
WELL BECAUSE WE WERE THERE FOR FEW MINUTES WE ALL GOT OUT OF THE RIG AND WE WERE
STANDING THERE WE WATCHED ANOTHER PLANE COME IN
FELT THE PLANE WAS COMING UNDERNEATH THE PILLAR OF SMOKE THAT WAS COMING OUT OF THE FIRST TOWER BUT OBVIOUSLY IT VEERED INTO THE TOWER AND IT TOOK ANOTHER HIT
WE ACTUALLY FELT LIKE RUMBLING SENSATION OVER IN BROOKLYN AT THAT POINT WE HEARD IT OVER THE RADIO WHATEVER THEY CALLED OUR STAGING AREA YOU KNOW
SORRY

NORRIS
202 101 131 279 AND WHATEVER OTHER COMPANIES WERE
THE TBTA HAD STOPPED TRAFFIC ONE THING THAT SHOULD MENTION ONE OF THE MEMBERS THAT WE HAD
WRWITH US THAT DAY WAS FRR LADD 11R
ANTHONY GONZALEZ HE CAME OVER ON DETAIL AND ONE THING WANT TO MENTION WAS THE FACT THAT SINCE THERE
WAS NO ROOM IN THE TRUCK WAS ABLE TO JUMP ON THE ENGINE AND TAKE THE BOX IN ON THE ENGINE AND OVER IN THE STAGING AREA LIEUTENANT HAWKINS WAS GIVING OUT POSITIONS AND KNEW THAT NOW FROM THIS POINT ON THAT
WOULD BE WORKING IN THE ENGINE BECAUSE IM PRIMARILY AN ENGINE GUY BUT AS WE WENT THROUGH THE TUNNEL MOST OF THE TRAFFIC HAD BEEN STOPPED AFTER THE FIRST IMPACT AND THERE WAS CONSIDERABLE TRAFFIC IN THERE BUT AS WE WERE GOING THROUGH THE TUNNEL IT WAS EERIE TO SEE ALL THE PEOPLE ON EXPRESS BUSES GOING INTO THE CITY AND THEY WERE AT THE SAME LEVEL AS THE ENGINES AND TRUCKS AND IT WAS WEIRD TO SEE THE EYE CONTACT BEING MADE FROM THE PEOPLE IN THE BUSES IT WAS EERIE THEY WERE MAKING SIGNS OF THE CROSSES AND LIP SYNCHING GOD
BLESS YOU BE CAREFUL AND SUCH
BUT THE REASON WHY MENTIONED ANTHONY
BEHIND US THEY WERE SAYING
GO GOGO GO GO THROUGH THE TUNNEL SO WE ALL JUMPED BACK ON THE RIG

NORRIS
GONZALEZ WAS BECAUSE AFTER THE FIRST IMPACT HE CALLED HIS WIFE AND SHE WAS IN THE SOUTHERN TOWER HE SAID TO HER WE HAVENT GONE OVER THERE YET BUT WE SHOULD BE GOING OVER THERE SHORTLY WHAT WANT YOU TO DO IS
WANT YOU TO GET OUT OF THAT BUILDING NOW AND JUST DRWCABR IT AND JUST SAF
SO AS WE STOOD AT THE BROOKLYN BATTERY TUNNEL
ENTRANCE WE SAW THE SECOND PLANE HIT AND ANTHONY HAD HIS CELL PHONE WITH HIM AND HE CALLED HIS WIFE AND OF
COURSE THERE WAS NO ANSWER SITTING IN THE BACK UP POSITION WAS SITTING ACROSS FROM THE CONTROL MAN WHICH WAS THIS ANTHONY GONZALEZ ONLY KNEW HIM IN PASSING BUT AT THIS POINT HE FELT THAT HIS WIFE WAS EITHER IN DANGER OR CONSIDERABLY INJURED SO HE WAS PRETTY MUCH IN SHOCK AT THIS POINT IT LOOKED AS IF HE WASNT READY TO DO ANYTHING
TIMMY BURKE AND WERE SAYING HOW THIS IS
GOING TO BE LEGENDARY DAY IN THE FIRE DEPARTMENT BECAUSE OF THE IMPACT THAT THE COLLISIONS WOULD HAVE ON
THE DEPARTMENT AS WELL AS THE CITY
AFTER CONSIDERABLE TRAFFIC IN THE TUNNEL WE
CAME OUT AND ALL THE TRAFFIC HAD BEEN STOPPED NORTHBOUND ON WEST STREET WE LOOKED AS IF WE WERE THE
FIRST ENGINE COMPANY TO COME FROM THE BROOKLYN BATTERY

NORRIS
TUNNEL AS REGULAR ENGINE COMPANY NOT THE SQUAD OR ANY OTHER COMPANIES AND THERE WAS NUMBER OF AIRPLANE
PARTS THROUGHOUT THE STREET LITTERING THE STREETS AS WELL CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF BODY PARTS THAT WERE ALL
OVER THE STREET THAT WERE GUESS EITHER FROM THE
BUILDING
PASS SR
THAT
HAV
AIRPLAN
ON THE TOWER WORKING
MIGHT
UP
202 HAD STOPPED IN FRONT OF THE NORTHERN
TOWER IM LOOKING AT PICTURE HERE AND TO CLARIFY THE NAMES WE STOPPED PROBABLY RIGHT ABOUT IN FRONT OF EITHER WORLD TRADE OR THE THE VISTA WAS BIT SOUTHERN THINK WE WERE WE WERE IN BETWEEN THE TWO PEDESTRIANS BRIDGES MORE TOWARDS THE NORTHERN PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE
WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT WE WERE ACROSS THE STREET AT FINANCIAL CENTER WHICH DONT SEE ON HERE ITS RIGHT NEAR THE WINTER GARDEN THE
IN FRONT OF THE WINTER GARDEN ON WEST STREET BUT WE HAD STOPPED IN FRONT OF WHAT THOUGHT WAS THE
NORTHERN TOWER WORLD TRADE AND FELT THAT WE
STOPPED PRETTY DANGEROUSLY TOWER
CLOSE TO THE NORTHERN
JUMPED OUT AND ILL NEVER FORGET HUGE CHUNK OF STEEL HAD FALLEN MAYBE 15 20 FEET FROM ME

NORRIS
AND LIEUTENANT HAWKINS SCREAMED OUT GET ON THE RIG GET ON THE RIG WERE GOING TO MOVE WERE GOING TO
MOVE AND REMEMBER JUMPING ON THE RIG SAYING
FEEL SAFE NOW BUT HAD THAT PIECE OF STEEL HIT THE RIG IT WOULD HAVE SPLIT THE RIG IN HALF BECAUSE IT WAS
MAYBE
BRIDGE HUNDRED
COUPLE OF HUNDRED FEET SOUTH OF THE PEDESTRIAN THE NORTHERN PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE MAYBE
MAYBE 50 YARDS WELL SAY
WE STOOD IN THE STREET AT THAT POINT ALL
RR
PI
WE JUMPED OFF THE RIG AND WE WENT OVER TO AT THAT POINT THE COMMAND CENTER WHICH WAS COUPLE
SIZ
HAD TH
SURH
DRIVEN ACROSS THE MEDIAN TO THE SOUTHERN BOUND TRAFFIC LANE OF WEST STREET
THE OTHER COMPANIES STARTED ROLLING IN AND THEY HAD GUESS MOVED THE COMMAND CENTER FROM WHEREVER IT WAS
PREVIOUSLY TO WHERE WE STOOD AND IT WAS PRETTY
CHAOTIC THERE WAS NOTHING NO ORGANIZATION WHATSOEVER NO ONE KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON WHO WAS
GOING WHERE WHAT BUILDING WE WERE GOING TO BE SENT INTO WHAT BUILDING THEY WERE SPEAKING OF IT WAS REALLY CHAOTIC
ONE OFFICER MADE THE SUGGESTION TO HAVE THE COMPANIES MOVE UNDERNEATH THE PROTECTION OF FINANCIAL
BUT
ENGIN

NORRIS
CENTER IN WHAT WAS AN INBOUND GARAGE UNDERGROUND GARAGE ENTRANCE THERE WERE TWO DRIVEWAYS ONE WAS AN INBOUND AND ONE WAS AN OUTBOUND THERE WAS WALL IN BETWEEN THE TWO SO YOU COULDNT SEE THE OTHER
SIDE
THIS HAD SAID ALL TH NGIN
THE RIGHT HAND SIDE AND ALL THE TRUCK MEN TO THE
LEFT HAND SIDE AND ALL OFFICERS REPORT TO THE STAGING AREA WHICH APPEARED AT THIS POINT TO BE ON THE DOWNGRADE SLOPE OR IT WOULD BE THE UPGRADE SLOPE OF THE OUTBOUND GARAGE LANE
WE STOOD THERE FOR WHAT FELT LIKE AN ETERNITY THERE WERE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT WERE JUMPING FROM THE BUILDING LANDING ON WHAT LOOKED LIKE AN AWNING IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE NORTHERN TOWERS MARQUEE IM NOT REALLY SURE BUT PEOPLE KEPT JUMPING AT AN ALARMING RATE HITTING THE GROUND
BECAUSE WE WERE THERE FOR SO LONG AND BECAUSE
THERE WAS SUCH CHAOS CHIEF HAD MENTIONED FELLOWS JUST YOU KNOW RELAX LITTLE BIT TAKE OFF OUR JACKETS TAKE OFF YOUR SCOTT PACK HE GOES YOU RE GOING TO BE AWHILE HERE TODAY SUGGEST YOU SAVE ALL
YOUR ENERGIES BEING HOT DAY THAT IT WAS NUMBER OF PEOPLE REMOVED THEIR JACKETS AND SCOTT PACK THEIR

NORRIS
HELMETS AND WERE STANDING AROUND IN THIS GROUP OF
THE ENGINE MEN GROUP
THERE WERE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO LOOKED
AND PULL
PHYSICALLY SHAKEN UP PRIEST HAD COME DOWN AND WAS CHECKING OVER THE CROWD TO SEE WHO LOOKED AS IF THEY
SC ASSISTANR
PEOPLE TO THE SIDE TO SPEAK TO THEM
MR
AT THIS POINT THE DETAIL FROM LADDER 118 ANTHONY GONZALEZ KEPT TRYING TO CONTACT HIS WIFE AND HE KEPT UNSUCCESSFULLY CALLING HE WAS BEING CONSOLED
BY OUR CHAUFFEUR MIKE MAHONEY WHO HAS KNOWN ANTHONY GONZALEZ FOR MUCH LONGER TIME THAN HAVE HE WAS
TRYING TO CONSOLE HIM BY ANY WAY THAT HE CAN ANTHONY HAD REMOVED HIS GEAR AS WELL BUT HE SAT DOWN IN THE
BACK FROM WHERE THE GROUP WAS WITNESSING THE PEOPLE
JUMPING AND FROM WHERE ANTHONY WAS SITTING DOUBT HE
COULD SEE VERY MUCH PAST THE SLOPE OT THE ENTRANCEWAY BECAUSE AT THAT THATS THE HEIGHT OF THE SIDEWALK
THE POINT BEING MIKE WAS CONSOLING HIM AND MYSELF AND TIMMY BURKE WERE STANDING IN THE FRONT AREA WITHOUT OUR HELMETS ON AND OUR JACKETS ON WITNESSING WHAT WAS
GOING ON ACROSS THE STREET
ANTHONY WAS BY NO MEANS CAPABLE OF GATHERING UP HIS GEAR AND GOING IN HE JUST SAT THERE IN AWE
10

NORRIS
HE WAS SHAKING HIS HEAD AND PUTTING HIS HAND ON HIS HEAD JUST HE WAS DEVASTATED
AT THIS POINT THERE WAS CHIEF RANDOMLY WALKING BACK AND FORTH NOT NECESSARILY FROM MY
OPINION PICKING COMPANIES BASED UPON OFFICERS SIGNING
IN AT TH
RR
LR
IT
IN RETROSPECT THOSE HE LOOKED AS IF WERE DRESSED AND READY TO GO AS UNIT
COMPANIES ARRIVED AFTER 202 DID AND THEY
WERE SENT IN BY NO OTHER REASON THINK THAT THEY
WERE ALL COLLECTIVELY TOGETHER WAS STANDING NEXT TO GUY WHO HAD JUST CALLED HIS WIFE GIRLFRIEND IM
OKAY JUST WANT TO LET YOU KNOW EVERYTHING IS FINE AND ASKED HIM SAID DO YOU MIND IF BORROW YOUR PHONE AND CALL MY WIFE AND HE GAVE ME HIS PHONE AND AS SOON AS DIALED MY WILE THE PHONE WAS RINGING AND HEARD WHAT WAS THIRD PLANE COMING IN
HEARD THE PROPULSION OF AN ENGINE AND THEN AN EXPLOSION
JUST
SOMEBODY WAS SAYING YOU GUYS IN YOU GUYS IN BASED
UPON
THERES IN ITS
IT WAS
WE LOOKED UP AND SAW THESE HUGE CHUNKS
ONE PARTICULAR PIECE OF THIS BUILDING THAT FELL ENTIRETY THAT ILL NEVER FORGET IT WAS AS IF
SCHWARTZENAGER MOVIE TAKING PLACE IT JUST
AS IF
11

NORRIS
CAME DOWN SHOWERING ON US
AT THAT POINT WITH THE PHONE IN MY HAND EVERYONE STARTED SCREAMING RUN SO WE ALL RAN INTO THE GARAGE AND WAS EXPECTING FIRE BALL TO COME CHASING US DOWN THE DRIVEWAY BECAUSE OF HOW THE AIR PUSH ITS WAY DC TH TUNN IN SURH FASH‰N WITH SUCH FORCE
ILL NEVER FORGET CLOSED MY EYES AND JUST WAITED TO FEEL THE HEAT COMING AND IT WAS AN
INCREDIBLE FORCE BUT IT WASNT THE FORCE THAT WAS EXPECTING WHICH WAS FLAMES IT WAS JUST THE ALL THE DUST AND DEBRIS WHICH WAS YOU KNOW PEA SOUP YOU COULDNT SEE
THING
BUT IT WAS ID SAY 30 40 SOME ODD GUYS
RUNNING DOWN ONE ENTRANCE ONE WAY OF THE GARAGE NOT KNOWING WHAT TOOK PLACE ON THE TRUCK SIDE THE LADDER SIDE OT THE EXIT OT THE GARAGE BUT WE ALL RAN
DOWN INTO AN AREA THAT NO ONE EVER HAD BEEN IN BEFORE WE COULDNT FIND AN EXIT IT WAS PRETTY CHAOTIC DOWN THERE FOR PERIOD
WE TRIED TO FORCE DOOR THAT TURNED OUT TO BE STORAGE SHED THERE WAS NO OTHER DOORS AROUND FOR US TO FORCE NO ONE HAD ANY TOOLS THERE WAS NO TOOLS
AROUND BECAUSE AT THE TIME OF THE COLLAPSE LOT OF
BLINDINGLY
12

NORRIS
PEOPLE HAD PUT DOWN THEIR GEAR HECAUSE THEY WERE STANDING THERE SO LONG ALL HAD ON WAS MY BUNKER
DIDNT HAVE RADIO HAD RADIO DIDNT HAVE MY JACKET DIDNT HAVE MY HELMET
AND THAT WAS THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE THAT WASARRLR THDIDNTHAVTH
WITH THEM THEY WERE JUST YOU KNOW NO ONE WAS PREPARED TO START FORCING DOORS BUT PEOPLE WERE
SCREAMING AT ONE ANOTHER DOWN THERE JUST TRYING TO GET BACK WITH THE PEOPLE THEY ARRIVED WITH AND REMEMBER
TIMMY BURKE AND HAD SAID WE WERE GOING TO STAY TOGETHER ALL DAY AND HEARD HIS VOICE HE HEARD MINE AND IT WAS AS IF WALKING IN PITCH BLACK DARKNESS WE WERE WALKING WITH OUR HAND IN FRONT OF OUR FACES
TRYING TO NOT WALK INTO PEOPLE OR THE WALL BECAUSE IT WAS JUST ZERO VISIBILITY
JIMMY AND HAD PAIRED UP TOGETHER AND WE INCH BY INCH STARTED WALKING OUT TOWARDS THE
ENTRANCEWAY AND INITIALLY FELT THAT THE DEBRIS HAD SEALED OFF OUR EXIT FROM THAT ENTRANCEWAY BECAUSE THERE WAS ZERO VISIBILITY WE COULDNT FIND ANYTHING WITH ALL THE DEBRIS THAT WAS IN THE STREET SO THOUGHT IN RETROSPECT IT WAS ALL THE DUST THAT WAS LINGERING BUT THOUGHT IT WAS ACTUAL PIECES OF THE
PANTS
13

NORRIS
BUILDING BLOCKING OUR EXIT
WE STARTED FEELING ALONG THE FLOOR FOR LIKE
DIFFERENT TYPES OF TOOLS AND DIFFERENT TYPES OF EQUIPMENT AND REMEMBER FINDING HELMET FROM 226 AND THERE WERE SCOTT PACKS AROUND AND MISCELLANEOUS
LI
TO REACH US ON THE RADIO AND WE WALKED BACK INTO THE TUNNEL AREA SOMEONE HAD TIED UP SEARCH
JARK AND PANTS TH TRYING
HAWKINS
ROPE IN AN AREA IN THE BEGINNING OF THE NOT IN THE
BEGINNING BUT IN THE AREA WHERE THE VISIBILITY STARTED
GETTING BETTER THE DEEP PART OF THE GARAGE AND PEOPLE STARTED FOLLOWING THIS SEARCH ROPE
DIDNT IT LEAD OUT TO GUESS FROM THIS PICTURE THIS CALL IT THE WINTER GARDEN KNOW IT AS
THE PLACE WHERE MORANS IS THE RESTAURANTBAR OVER THERE CALLED MORANS AS WELL AS CRUISE SHIP CALLED THE EXCALIBER THAT MY BROTHER HAD HIS WEDDING ON
WHEN WE GOT BACK TOGETHER AGAIN LIEUTENANT HAWKINS HAD FOUND MIKE MAHONEY AND ANTHONY GONZALEZ
WHO WAS STILL SHELL SHOCKED BUT EVEN MORE SO NOW THAT
THE COLLAPSE HAD TAKEN PLACE WE WERE SPEECHLESS THERE WAS PERIOD OF SILENCE THAT WAS AROUND US
BECAUSE THERE WERENT MANY PEOPLE THAT CAME OUT OF THIS PARTICULAR EXIT FROM THE GARAGE
14

NORRIS
WE HAD COME OUT TO THE MORANS WELL CALL
IT QUADRANGLE OR COURTYARD AREA AND IT WAS EERILY SILENT WITH PAPERS FLYING AROUND US AND THE
DUST WITH THAT WE STOOD THERE IN AWE FOR AWHILE NOT KNOWING WHAT TO DO
LI
RR AND
SAID ALL RIGHT GUYS YOU KNOW JUST EVERYONE
RELAX RECOMMENDED MAYBE GOING BACK OUT THERE AND SEEING WHAT WE COULD DO BECAUSE WE KNEW OF WAY TO GET BACK AT LEAST TO WHERE WE STOOD YOU KNOW MAYBE WE COULD CLIMB OUT FROM UNDER THE DEBRIS OR WHATEVER LIEUTENANT HAWKINS REMEMBER HIM SAYING THAT IF THAT BUILDING HAD FALLEN IT WONT BE LONG BEFORE THE OTHER ONE IS GOING TO FALL AS WELL HE TOLD US JUST RELAX WE ARE GOING TO FIND SOMETHING TO DO WELL BE ABLE TO DO SOME STUFF LATER
WE STOOD THERE BR AWHILE AND BECAUSE THE SOUTHERN TOWER FELL FIRST THIS NORTHERN TOWER WAS MORE IN LINE OF VIEW WITH WHERE WE STOOD WE WERE ALMOST YOU KNOW PARALLEL TO THE BUILDING SO LIEUTENANT
HAWKINS RECOMMENDED WALKING NORTH ALONG THE WATERFRONT TO GET OUT OF THE WAY HARMS WAY OF THE POSSIBILITY OF THE SECOND TOWER FALLING THE NORTHERN TOWER
AS WE WALKED WE WERE WATCHING NUMBER OF
HAWKINS
JUST
US
15

NORRIS
THE NEW YORK WATERWAY SHIPS FERRIES COME OVER FROM NEW JERSEY AND THEY WERE STARTING TO HAVE MAKESHIFT
FERRY ENTRANCES FOR PEOPLE CIVILIANS WHO WERE COMING OVER TO THIS PARTICULAR PART OF THE AREA SCREAMING CRYING SOME INJURED SOME NOT
TH LR THAT
INJURED WE INDEPENDENTLY STARTED HELPING PEOPLE WHO LOOKED AS IF THEY NEEDED HELP BECAUSE AS UNIT WE
WERE WITHOUT TOOLS WE WERE WITHOUT OUR OWN
PROTECTION LOST MY JACKET MY HELMET ANTHONY GONZALEZ DIDNT HAVE HIS SCOTT PACK HE MIGHT HAVE HAD
HIS JACKET MAHONEY MIGHT HAVE HAD HIS JACKET LIEUTENANT HAWKINS THINK HAD HIS JACKET AND HELMET
BUT NO LIGHT OR NO TOOL WE WERE HELPLESS AS QUOTE UNQUOTE FIREMEN WITHOUT TOOLS
WE JUST KEPT ASSISTING CIVILIANS AND JUST TERRYING THEM ONTO THE TERRIES TO GET OUT OT THE AREA TO GO TOWARDS NEW JERSEY DONT REMEMBER AT THIS PART WHETHER WE KEPT ASSISTING CIVILIANS AND THEN TIM AND WENT TO GET SOMETHING TO DRINK BECAUSE THE NUMBER ONE COMPLAINT WAS PEOPLE WERE UNABLE TO EVEN TALK BECAUSE OF THEIR MOUTHS AS OURS CONTAINED ALL THE SHIT IT WAS LIKE POURING AN ASHTRAY IN YOUR MOUTH IT WAS TERRIBLE
16

NORRIS
WE WENT UP TO STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL WHICH ACTUALLY WASNT STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL AS WE KNOW IT
THERE WAS AN ANNEX FEW BLOCKS DOWN IM
HERE AND IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN ON VESEY STREET VESEY STREET THERE WAS WELL LOOKING HERE EITHER VESEY
BE OVER VESEY STREET OKAY BUT THE ACTUAL AND THE STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL IS AT DIFFERENT
TH
THATS OVER THERE GRASS PARK AND BELIEVE IT MIGHT
STR WAS THIS QUADRANGL BUT
PARK
LOCATION
OVERPASS
ACTUALLY ITS FURTHER UP
WE WENT INTO WHAT WAS AN ANNEX OF THE
SCHOOL
FAMILIES
IM GETTING AT IS WASNT SURE IF THIS TOOK PLACE AFTER THE SECOND COLLAPSE OR BEFORE THE SECOND COLLAPSE
IN THERE TIM BURKE AND TRIED TO CALL OUR AND LET THEM KNOW THAT WE WERE OKAY BUT WHAT
TIM AND HAD COME BACK WITH CASES AND CASES OF JUICES THAT WE WERE GIVING TO CIVILIANS AND FIREMEN ALIKE AS WE WENT BACK WITH THE DRINK AND THIS IS WHAT AGAIN DONT REMEMBER WHAT TOOK PLACE FIRST
WE WALKED BACK TOWARDS WHAT SAYS
CENTER MERRILL LYNCH BUILDING THERE AND DID HEAR YET ANOTHER
PROPULSION OF PLANE AND THEN
WORLD FINANCIAL REMEMBER BEING OVER
WHAT THOUGHT WAS AN EXPLOSION AND
LOOKING
17

NORRIS
THEN WE ALL DOVE TO THE FLOOR
THERE WAS SECTION OF THAT PARK THAT WAS
ELEVATED WITH RESPECT TO THE BENCHES REMEMBER DIVING UNDERNEATH BENCH THAT WAS BELOW AN ELEVATED
PART OF THE PARK GRASS SECTION AND THERE WAS THIS RLR WASNT SUR HR FAR TH WAS
GOING TO BE FALLING OF THE BUILDING ITSELF
IMAGINE PEOPLE WHO WERENT ABLE TO DIVE
UNDERNEATH THIS PROTECTIVE AREA JUST CLOSED THEIR EYES BECAUSE THERE WAS NO TELLING HOW FAR THIS DEBRIS WOULD FALL BECAUSE LOOKING AT THIS PICTURE YOUD SAY OKAY
YOU KNOW YOURE WAY OUT OF HARMS WAY BUT AS WE ALL KNOW THE SIZE OF THE BUILDINGS WAS IMMENSE
AT THIS POINT WE HAPPENED TO SEE LOT OF OTHER FIREMEN START TRICKLING IN REMEMBER SEEING
ONE FIREMEN HE DIDNT HAVE HELMET ON YOUNG KID HE WAS WALKING WITH HIS JACKET OTT ON ONE SHOULDER AND HE LOOKED LIKE HE WAS SHELL SHOCKED AND SAID BRO ARE YOU OKAY AND REMEMBER HAD SOME JUICES WITH US SAID BRO ARE YOU OKAY ARE YOU OKAY AND
HE DIDNT ANSWER ME SO KIND OF LIKE STOPPED HIM AND SHOOK HIM SAID YOU OKAY BECAUSE HE WAS JUST SO DEER IN THE HEADLIGHTS THAT KNEW SOMETHING WAS UP
WITH HIM AND HE TOLD ME THAT HE JUMPED OUT OF THE 2ND
18

NORRIS
FLOOR WINDOW WHATEVER THAT MEANT WHETHER THAT WAS
BEFORE COLLAPSE AFTER COLLAPSE DURING
COLLAPSE DONT KNOW WHICH COMPANY HE WAS FROM BUT HE LOOKED EMOTIONALLY PRETTY BAD
THERE WERE COUNTLESS PEOPLE ON THIS WAT PRR AR THAT
ASSISTANCE PEOPLE SAYING THEY WERE HAVING HEART ATTACKS CHEST PAINS THOSE WITH VISIBLE LACERATIONS TRAUMA ALL BEING FERRIED OVER TO NEW JERSEY HOSPITALS
WE FELT HELPLESS BECAUSE WE HAD NOTHING YOU KNOW THEY WERE ASKING US TO GET THEM WHAT THEY
WERE CALLING OUR OXYGEN MASKS TO PUT ON THE PEOPLE SO THEY COULD BE ADMINISTERED SOME OXYGEN BUT WAS
KIDDING AROUND TELLING MY FRIENDS YOU KNOW MAN THIS
IS 4500 POUNDS OF COMPRESSED AIR BUT THEY DIDNT UNDERSTAND WHAT IT WAS THEY COULDNT HELP IT THAT
THE BEST THING THEY COULD DO WAS TO HOP ON FERRY OVER TO NEW JERSEY REGARDLESS OF HOW THEY WERE FEELING THE BEST THING THEY COULD HAVE DONE WAS TO MOVE OVER TO
THAT AREA WHERE THERE WERE DEFINITELY SOME MEDICAL PEOPLE
CONTINUED WE HAD CONTINUED TO HELP CIVILIANS AND FIREMEN ALIKE JUST TRYING TO GIVE THEM
19

NORRIS
SOME TYPE OF DIRECTION JUST REASSURANCE OF THEIR WELL BEING THAT IT WAS OKAY YOURE GOING TO BE ALL
RIGHT JUST KEEP WALKING UP AHEAD
OF THE GROUPS OF PEOPLE THAT WERE COMING IN
THIS AREA WE SEEMED TO BE THE BETTER OF THE GROUP TH MIGHT HAV RLR TR TH
SECONDARY COLLAPSE THAN WE WERE THAN WE WERE OF THE FIRST AT LEAST WE HAD SOME BIT OF SHELTER
REMEMBER HEARING GETTING BACK TO PRIOR TO THE FIRST COLLAPSE WE LISTENED TO THE RADIO AND
REMEMBER HEARING BELIEVE IT WAS 33 ENGINE SAID
THAT 33 TO CHIEF OR WHOEVER WAS IN COMMAND WE HAVE REACHED THE 30TH FLOOR ITS TAKEN US AN HOUR WE PROJECT THAT WERE GOING TO BE ANOTHER HOUR BY THE TIME WE REACH OUR DESTINATION AND WAS THINKING ONCE YOU GET TO THAT DESTINATION WHAT TYPE OF CONDITIONS
WILL THE STANDPIPE SYSTEM BE AS AN ENGINE MEAN AS FAR AS EXTINGUISHING FIRE THERE WILL BE VERY LITTLE
HEAD PRESSURE UP THAT FAR UP WITH THE STANDPIPE
SEVERED DONT KNOW IF THERE ARE MULTIPLE STANDPIPES OR SAFETY SYSTEMS THAT ARE INTACT TO BYPASS SEVERED STANDPIPES BUT WOULD SAY WHAT COULD FIREMAN DO
WITH 40 FLOORS OF FIRE
THIS WAS PRIOR TO THE FIRST BUILDING
20

COLLAPSE
NORRIS
YES YES AS STOOD THERE WATCHING THE
PEOPLE JUMPING HEARD REPORT OF 33 THINK ITS 33 SAYING WERE ON THE 30TH FLOOR WEVE BEEN AN
HOUR AND IT WILL TAKE US ANOTHER HOUR BY THE TIME WE
ASSIGNM WHAT THAT MIGHT HAV
DID YOU KNOW IF THEY WERE IN THE NORTH OR
SOUTH TOWER
THATS JUST IT WAS HEARING REPORTS FROM DIFFERENT PEOPLE WHO WERENT STATING WHERE THEY WERE
FROM IMAGINED IF WHOEVER WAS TAKING THEIR POSITIONS KNEW WHERE THEY WERE 33 TO COMMAND POST YOU KNOW
IM IN THIS TOWER
WASNT AWARE OF SEPARATE FREQUENCY AT THIS TIME DIDNT KNOW IF SEPARATE FREQUENCY HAD
BEEN ESTABLISHED BEFORE WE ARRIVED DONT KNOW OF ANY ADDITIONAL CIRCUMVENTION TO THE RADIO CHAOS THERE
WERE NUMBER OF PEOPLE STATING THAT WE HAVE MAN DOWN ON SUCH AND SUCH FLOOR CHEST PAINS SPEAKING OF FIRE
MEMBERS THERE WERE MULTIPLE REPORTS OF THAT
DO YOU RECALL ANY COMPANIES
THAT DO NOT DO RECALL SAYING THAT IT
WAS SHAME TO HEAR THAT PEOPLE WERE GIVING VERY URGENT MESSAGES THAT WERE BEING CUT OFF BY OTHER URGENT
21

NORRIS
MESSAGES MAYBE ITS WHERE STOOD MAYBE SOME TRANSMISSIONS WERE COMING THROUGH CLEAR AND SOME WERE NOT AND WAS GETTING THE DRIBS AND DRABS BUT IT JUST SEEMED AS IF THERE WERE NO CLEAR THOROUGH MESSAGES BEING SENT BECAUSE EVERYONE WAS STEPPING ON EACH
AFTER THE FIRST COLLAPSE IT WAS JUST CHAOS HEARD OF HEARD OF ONE OFFICER
IT SEEMED AS IF THEY WERE TALKING TO DISPATCHER BECAUSE THEY SAID AGAIN THIS IS
MEMORY THIS ISNT DONT REMEMBER WHERE HEARD THIS BUT THEY WERE SAYING HOW SUCH AND SUCH TO COMMAND
POST WELL SAY YOU HAVE AN OFFICER DOWN ON THINK THEY SAID BROADWAY YOU HAVE FIRE OFFICER DOWN IN
THE STREETS OF BROADWAY AND THEN REMEMBER TRANSMISSION COMING BACK AND SAYING DISREGARD DOA
SO DONT KNOW WHO IT WAS OR WHO THEY WERE SPEAKING OF BUT IT JUST SEEMED AS IF THAT WAS THE BEGINNING OF LOT OF BAD TRANSMISSIONS TO FOLLOW
COMING IN WITH 202 AND 101 AS GROUP AND KNOWING THAT WAS TO HAVE WORKED WITH THE TRUCK WE WERE CONCERNED
AS TO WHAT THEIR ASSIGNMENTS WERE WE DID NOT KNOW THEY WERE SENT IN BEING SEPARATED VIA THE WALL
WASNT SURE THEY WERE SENT IN OR THEY WERE NEXT TO ME
22

NORRIS
WE DIDNT KNOW THEIR WHEREABOUTS
FELT KIND OF YOU KNOW PETTY GETTING ON THE RADIO AND SAYING 202 TO 101 ARE YOU OKAY BECAUSE OF ALL THE OTHER TRANSMISSIONS TAKING PLACE THAT FELT NOTHING COULD DO AT THIS POINT TO HELP 101 BECAUSE
QUIPM AS AS IF TH HURT THEY WOULD HAVE NEED OF THE AIRWAYS AS WELL TO MAKE THEIR TRANSMISSIONS
AFTER THE SECOND COLLAPSE SOMETIME LATER WE SAW PEOPLE STARTING TO COME IN THAT HAD BEEN UNDER RECALL AND WE SAID HAVE YOU SEEN 101 AND THEY SAID YES WE SAW 101 THEY WERE DOWN IN THE
SOUTH OF THE SOUTH TOWER THIS WAS MAYBE ELEVEN
OCLOCK 1130
EARLY SO
AS WE ALL DID
DONT KNOW IT WAS STILL RELATIVELY FELT THE NEED TO TRY TO CONTACT THEM IM SAYING PERSONALLY TO SEE HOW
THEY WERE MAKE SURE EVERYONE WAS OKAY BUT AGAIN DIDNT WANT TO START MAKING RADIO TRANSMISSIONS JUST TO
MEET UP WITH PEOPLE BECAUSE WAS ALREADY INTACT AS UNIT AND IF THEY WERE INTACT AS UNIT WHY WOULD THEY
WANT TO HOOK UP WITH US
AS IT TURNED OUT THE SPOTTING OF 101 WERE
PEOPLE THAT CAME IN ON THE RECALL WEARING 101 HELMETS AS GROUP SOMEONE HAD SEEN COLLECTIVE GROUP OF
23

NORRIS
GUYS WEARING 101 HELMETS THINKING THESE WERE THE GUYS THAT CAME IN TO WORK THAT DAY SO THATS WHERE THE CONFUSION TOOK PLACE
WE WERE HANGING OUT HELPING CIVILIANS AND HELPING FIREMEN WITH INJURIES LOT OF PEOPLE WITH
LAR
ON FERRIES PEOPLE WERE DYING TO GET OUT OF NEW YORK
INJURI
AGAIN JUST PUTTING
HOPPING ON THE FERRIES
WANTED TO GET BACK TO HELP PEOPLE DOWN AT
THE SITE TO GET BACK THERE AND TO HELP PEOPLE SEARCH
PRETTY MUCH REQUESTED FEW TIMES TO YOU KNOW CAN WE GET BACK DOWN THERE
WE STAYED PRETTY MUCH NEAR THE FERRY AREAS LOOKED AT THE PICTURE IT WAS PROBABLY AT THE END OF
VESEY STREET THAT LITTLE CORNER THAT LITTLE GUESS RIVER TERRACE AND VESEY STREET
THE FERRIES KEPT COMING OVER THERE WE KEPT FERRYING PEOPLE OVER TO NEW JERSEY AFTER AWHILE ONCE THAT STARTED CALMING DOWN WE HEARD REPORTS OF MEMBERS
24

NORRIS
TO GO NORTH TO STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL OR WE WENT UP BY STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL AND WE WERE THERE FOR AWHILE
JUST IN AWE JUST WALKING AROUND FEELING USELESS
NOTHING DIDNT FEEL LIKE IT WAS REAL LIKE IT TOOK PLACE
AFT AWHIL
DIDNT FEEL
THAT TH
WAS GAS LEAK OR POSSIBLE GAS EXPLOSION
HIGH SCHOOL BECAUSE OF RUPTURED GAS LINES THERE WAS CHAOTIC EVACUATION OF STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL WHICH
JUST MADE THINGS WORSE BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN LEAK IT JUST SEEMED AS IF IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN CONNECTED SOMEHOW WITH WHAT WE FOUND OUT WAS TERRORIST ATTACKS
NOT BEING ABLE TO SEE OUR EYES WERE
KILLING US OUR MOUTHS WERE DRY AS ANYTHING WE STOOD UP BY STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL IN AWE REMEMBER BEING JUST DEVASTATED JUST SPEECHLESS WITH RESPECT TO THE POTENTIAL OF VICTIMS AND POTENTIAL OF DEPARTMENT MEMBERS
BELIEVE WHEN WAS DOWN ON VESEY STREET MY
OLD COMPANY 65 ENGINE WERE GIVING MAYDAY TRANSMISSIONS THIS REMEMBER VERY CLEARLY HEARD
LIEUTENANT PIAMBINO 65 ENGINE SAYING WERE TRAPPED WERE TRAPPED WE CANT GET OUT WERE
IN STUYVESANT
25

NORRIS
TRAPPED WERE TRAPPED MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY AND THAT WAS ONE OF MANY TRANSMISSIONS TAKING PLACE AT THAT TIME BUT MAYBE DUE TO MY PROXIMITY WAS ABLE TO HEAR THEIR TRANSMISSION COME OUT CLEARER
WAS THIS PRIOR TO THE SECOND COLLAPSE
THIS IS WHAT DR IT RR HAV BEEN IT COULD HAVE BEEN BUT MAYBE IT WASNT
DONT REMEMBER DONT REMEMBER BUT AS WE WENT UP TO
THE BUILDING OF STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL DID SEE THE WHOLE COMPANY FIVE MEN ENGINE COMPANY THEY ALL WALKED OUT THEY ALL WALKED UP TO THE AREA OF
SCHOOL
IT WAS LIKE LITTLE ISLAND IN BETWEEN THE
NORTH AND SOUTHBOUND LANES OF SOUTH STREET THAT PEOPLE
HAD STARTED SITTING ON THE WALLS AFTER THEY CLOSED THE STREETS TRAFFIC THEY JUST SEEMED THEY HAD BEEN TO HELL AND BACK
WHAT COMPANIES
THIS WAS 65 ENGINE
65
YEAH THEY ALL MADE IT OUT
THE STORY WHICH WOULD THINK WAS PROBABLY
JUST THE OFFICER NOT THAT WAS REQUIRED BUT TOLD HIM HE DID GREAT JOB AND HE WASNT WILLING TO RELIVE
STUYVESANT HIGH
26

NORRIS
IT HE SAID THAT AT THE CHRISTMAS PARTY UNDERSTOOD BUT JUST SAID YOU BROUGHT YOUR MEN
GREAT JOB
WAS PICTURE OF MEMBER BEING TAKEN
OUT OF THE PILE
THAT WAS IN TH
FRIDAY REMEMBER IT REALLY RIPPED THE HEART OUT OF ME IT WAS CHAUFFEUR FROM 65 ENGINE ARMAND RENO
WHO HAS 30 SOME YEARS ON THE JOB BUT HE MADE IT OUT THOUGH IT WAS REAL HEART RIPPING PICTURE HE DOVE UNDER THE RIG AND THE RIG HAD BEEN CRUSHED AND HE WAS UNDERNEATH IT AND SOMEHOW HE MADE IT OUT
AS FAR AS MY TIME LINE WE PRETTY MUCH STAYED UP STAYED UP BY STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL WITH DOZENS OF OTHER FIREMEN THERE WERE DOZENS OF OTHER FIREMEN AROUND US SITTING ON WEST STREET BUT FELT FOR ALL
THE MEMBERS THAT WERE THERE AT THE TIME OT THE COLLAPSE THAT REALLY WERENT UP TO GOING BACK IN AND DOING WHATEVER NEEDED TO BE DONE FOR WHATEVER REASONS THE INDIVIDUALS WERE WE NEEDED REST WE NEEDED EQUIPMENT
THE DOZENS AND HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE COMING FROM THE NORTHERN PART OF WEST STREET AND WALKING DOWN
FRESH MEMBERS MEMBERS COMING IN ON RECALL FELT
HOME YOU DID THERE
SCREAMING IN PAIN WITH MISSING TOOTH PR ITH THAT THURSDAY
27

NORRIS
HELPLESS SITTING THERE HUT AGAIN WE DIDNT HAVE
ANYTHING TO DO WHAT NEEDED TO BE DONE YOU KNOW WITHOUT EQUIPMENT AND WITHOUT HOSES TOOLS
WE STOOD THERE FOR AWHILE THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH IT CONSOLING ANTHONY GONZALEZ
THING
DID DID THAT
HAPPENED AS WE STOOD WATCHING THE PEOPLE FALL FROM THE BUILDING WE LOOKED AT 202 WAS MOVING THE RIG 202
WAS MOVING AND WE TURNED AROUND AND THERE WAS MIKE MAHONEY SITTING THERE FOR WHATEVER REASON SOMEONE
FELT THAT THE RIG NEEDED TO BE MOVED
SOMEONE HAD TAKEN UPON THEMSELVES TO GET IN
202 AND MOVE THE RIG DONT KNOW HOW FAR THEY MOVED IT WHY THEY NEEDED TO MOVE IT OR ANYTHING BUT IT WAS
MOVED COUPLE OF FEET
ONE THING NEGLECTED TO MENTION TIM BURKE
AND HAD RUN OUT TO GET ADDITIONAL CYLINDERS BECAUSE WHEN WE GOT OFF THE RIG INITIALLY WE KIND OF RAN
ACROSS THE STREET TO GET OUT OF ANY POSSIBLE DEBRIS
HITTING US
WE WENT BACK UP TO THE RIG TO GET ADDITIONAL
CYLINDERS AND WHO DO WE SEE THERE AT 202 RIG BUT THE RESCUE OLD TIMER THERE IS FORGOT HIS LAST
NAME HE WAS JUST HONORED BY THE HOLY NAME SOCIETY
28

NORRIS
ANGELINI
ANGELINI AND DIDNT HE LOOK AT TIM AND
AND SAID KID GIVE ME YOUR CHAUFFEURS MASKS HE TELLS US AND HE WAS BY HIMSELF AND WE SAID OUR
CHAUFFEUR HAS IT YOU KNOW WE DONT HAVE IT HE GRDNG THRR RNMPARTM AND HIM
INTO THE NORTHERN TOWER AS COOL AS CUCUMBER NOT LOOKING UP NOT ANYTHING
DONT
EVERYTHING YOU SAID IS CERTAINLY HELPFUL IF THERE IS ANYTHING ELSE PERTINENT THAT YOU CAN THINK
WALKING
NOW HEARING THAT HIM AND HIS SON
KNOW WHAT ELSE TO SAY YOU KNOW ITS NOT LIKE WAS IN THE TOWER AND CRAWLED OUT OF HOLE THAT WAS LEFT OPEN JUST WE WERENT SENT IN
OF
AT THIS POINT NO WELL THERE IS
GUESS
29

30
NORRIS
BATTALION CHIEF MC GRATH THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE INTERVIEW
THIS WILL CONCLUDE THE INTERVIEW THE TIME IS 1450 HOURS THIS INTERVIEW WAS CONDUCTED IN
THE QUARTERS OT ENGINE ZUZ
File No. 9110397
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER PAUL VASQUEZ
   Interview Date: December 27, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTIS:  Today's date is
     December 27, 2001.  The time is approximately 1110
     hours.  My name is Battalion Chief Art Lakiotis,
     safety command, New York City Fire Department.
     I'm conducting an interview with --
          FIREFIGHTER VASQUEZ:  Firefighter Paul
     Vasquez, Engine Company 284.
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTIS:  This is regarding
     the events of September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Paul, if you would, just tell me verbally how
the events unfolded for you that day.
     A.   I was at home, saw it on TV, the first.  My
wife woke me up.  I saw the first building burning.  I
watched on the news.  I called up the firehouse, asked
what was going on, if they had a recall going on or
anything.  They said nothing yet, stay home, stay by
the phone.  So after the second one, I called again.
They told me it was a recall.  I came in.
          I came in, got changed.  The truck and the
engine were gone already, 284 and Ladder 149 were gone
already, and I just got changed, took one of the guys'
own private vehicle and headed up the Gowanus to the
Brooklyn Bridge.  They were holding people there.
Emergency vehicles were allowed to go over, and they
P. VASQUEZ
3
were holding up guys in emergency vehicles waiting.
          They sent us over, and then the rigs came
over.  We parked by the federal building over there,
and it was already dust clouds, so I guess the first
building already collapsed, and we started walking in,
and not that long after that we heard, like, the rumble
of the second building collapsing.
          The first -- couple of us -- they were
putting us in groups, trying to keep together.  The
first thing we started doing was -- I think it was
Church and Vesey there was a bunch of cars on fire.
     Q.   Here is a map.  You may be able to orient
yourself.
     A.   I think it was Church, Trinity and Vesey.
They were a bunch of car fires here on Vesey Street,
and there was a couple of guys dressed in civilian
clothes operating a hose line, so we took that from
them and started trying to start putting out these car
fires.
          We were kind of hindered because of the lack
of water, was like really bad water pressure, but we
did the best we could, and we stayed there for I don't
know how long exactly.  We stayed there for awhile,
started putting out -- trying to put out these car
fires.
P. VASQUEZ
4
          Later on World Trade Center, I guess,
Building 5, that was burning.  They saw a couple of
firefighters on the roof.  They brought a couple of
trunks over trying to get the aerial up and trying to
get a tower ladder up.  The building was too tall, I
believe, and they hooked up the -- I believe they got
out.  They came down.  A little while later I saw a
couple of guys coming out of there, and the tower
ladder started trying to put out the fire there.
          We went up to Fulton and rather Vesey -- no,
Fulton and Broadway.  I think it was 212.  They brought
an engine down to try to pump more water to the tower
ladder.  We stayed in this area trying to help with the
hoses, help the tower ladders getting set up on
Building 4 and 5.
     Q.   Any other companies that were there with you
besides the guys at 284?
     A.   I saw apparatus from tower ladder -- now I
can't remember the numbers.
     Q.   I know.
     A.   It's a mess.
     Q.   Most of us can't remember too much of that
day.
P. VASQUEZ
5
     A.   We stayed in this area for awhile.
     Q.   Those building were going pretty merrily.
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   I didn't get around to that point.  I stayed
on West and Vesey, West and Liberty most of the time
there.  I saw some shots of that, the two, four and
five, and they were going pretty good.
     A.   I mean, they had a couple like three or four
tower ladders going, but the pressure wasn't there.
     Q.   The pressure wasn't there.  You couldn't do
much with it, no.
     A.   Couldn't do much with it.  We stayed in this
area for awhile, and we started wandering around, and
we came around to where like 6 and 7 were, and actually
7, we were coming down this corner going to try to find
something to do, and that's when they were telling us 7
is going to go, 7 is going to go, so we kind of backed
away.
          Then we made our way back down.  I believe it
looks like Trinity here, and there was a building on
fire.  I believe it was -- I'm not exactly sure.
     Q.   I think 1 Liberty was on fire.
     A.   I'm talking about further down, down in
here.  There was a fire in the basement.  We took some
P. VASQUEZ
6
hose off.  I think it was 321, and we were trying to
hook up to the standpipe, get water to the building's
system, and then we went down into the basement of a
building.  We had -- the chief there didn't want
anybody going down unless we had masks on.  We had
found masks.  We went down, and we were trying to open
 -- force the door.  We could feel it was hot, but they
lost water pressure, so they evacuated the building.
          And for a couple of hours they couldn't get
water pressure.  Saw smoke coming out of that building
and we knew, you know, it was probably going, started
going again rather well, but we just didn't have the
pressure for it.  You know, it was chaos, and nobody
knew what was going on.
          We did a search an of building.  I don't even
know where.  There was a bar and a building next to
it.  It got hit pretty bad, looked like from debris and
stuff like that.  Did a quick search of the building,
and it was empty.  There was a dog in the bathtub, but
it was a big dog, and we just left it there.
          I mean, I think a little while later we made
our way down to West and Liberty, see what was going on
down there.  There was nothing much we could do.
Didn't look like anybody needed help.
P. VASQUEZ
7
          A lot of guys hanging around, looking for
something to do, and then I was going back up to
Trinity, and that's pretty much where we stayed for the
rest of the day.
     Q.   And then you just took off?  Relieved or just
too tired?  How did you get back?
     A.   We were kind of tired, and then walked down
to battery -- to the tunnel.
     Q.   You walked through the tunnel?
     A.   They gave us a ride through the tunnel, and
the chief we were with, his car was parked on the other
side, and he gave us a ride back to quarters.
     Q.   Great, good.  Very good.
     A.   And, you know, everybody knows the water
pressure seemed to be the biggest problem.
     Q.   Yeah, the water pressure was shot.  We tried
after the first collapse.  We tried to test some
hydrants, and they had water, but there was absolutely
no pressure on them.
     A.   And then, you know, later on at night we
helped them trying to search, but there was so many
people on the pile, and too many people running over
each other.
     Q.   Exactly.  Nobody was hurt.
P. VASQUEZ
8
     A.   We went around trying to help out wherever we
could.
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTIS: I thank you.
          That concludes the interview.  It's
     approximately 11:15.
File No. 9110398
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER PETE CASTELLANO
   Interview Date:  December 28, 2001
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTIS:  Today's date is
     December 27, 2001.  The time is approximately 1155
     hours.  I am Battalion Chief Art Lakiotis, safety
     command, New York City Fire Department.  I'm
     conducting an interview with --
          FIREFIGHTER CASTELLANO:  Fireman Castellano,
     149.
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTIS:  Fireman
     Castellano, Ladder 149.
          This is regarding the events of September 11,
     2001.
     Q.   Pete, if you just take me through when you
started the response and how the events of the day just
kind of unfolded for you.
     A.   I was working that day.  We were scheduled
for educational day.  We got up to the rock. We went
into house watch.
          The first plane hit.  We were watching it on
TV.  We started getting ready to go.  The second plane
hit.  They told everybody go back to quarters, get your
rigs and respond from quarters.  We jumped in our cars,
and we started going back to quarters.  We took the BQE
back to quarters.  We got around the Manhattan Bridge.
I saw Tower 2 come down.
P. CASTELLANO
3
          We went back to quarters.  Our rig was
already gone.  The night crew must have taken the rig,
but we didn't know.  We grabbed our gear.  We started
heading over to Manhattan.  We got to the tunnel.  They
wouldn't let anybody through the tunnel, so we started
going to the Brooklyn Bridge.  We went to the Brooklyn
Bridge.  People were running over the Brooklyn Bridge.
          We couldn't take the cars, so we started
walking over.  As we were going halfway over, a car
came across with a couple of firemen, and we jumped on
top of the car.  We got across.
          We walked down to Broadway.  They had a
command center set up there.  The captain was looking
for some men.  He asked me if I wanted to work with
him.  We hooked up with him.  We were waiting for
orders.  Meanwhile, guys were coming out of Broadway
from the building.
          Now, I'm not sure when the Tower 2 came down,
if we were coming over the bridge or when we got onto
Broadway, but the smoke got heavy again, and I seen
Tommy McGoff, Lieutenant McGoff, coming from up
Broadway.  He was dazed.  He just kept on walking.  I
tried to talk to him.
          And then we went back to the command center,
P. CASTELLANO
4
waited more time, and we got no orders, so we kind of
went on our own into the area, the trade center area.
We met a chief.  He was looking for tower ladder guys.
We operated with him for awhile.  We were ordered down
from the tower ladder because of a possible collapse at
Tower 7.  We went from there -- we went to West
Street.
          Another chief asked us to search financial
center Building 1, see if anybody was in the building.
We started making a search of that building.  We were
ordered out of that building.  We got -- like
collapsed.  We were ordered out of that building.
          Came down.  Sat around for a little while
waiting for another command.  Building 2 or Building 7
about this time came down.  There's some things that we
did between that time, but Building 7 came down.
          Went back onto the pile.  Started, you know,
looking through the pile, and, you know, what we could
find, and then we came off the pile again.  We hooked
up with more of our guys, and we went back to Church
Street, because our rig was on Church Street.  We were
looking for the guys that were working that day, that
night, the night tour, and we hooked up with some of
the guys from the night tour.
P. CASTELLANO
5
          We operated on Church Street with the tower.
We did searches in buildings.  Ten o'clock came.  Some
guys left.  Some guys stayed.  We hooked up with -- I
hooked up -- me and Freddy with Vinnie Marsala --
hooked up with 18 engine and rescue 3, and we started
working on a guy that was trapped on top of an elevator
shaft, and I wound up working my way down to the
elevator shaft.
          I held the line for them while they tried to
vent the hose.  Worked there for a few hours.  They
relieved us.  Another company -- another two companies
relieved the guys that were in the hole.  I came out of
the hole, went back to the rig.  Me and Freddy Marsala
went back to the rig.
          I got on the radio, and I asked the
dispatcher -- it was around six o'clock in the
morning.  I asked what him does he want us to do with
the rig.  I got the rig.  There's nobody else -- me and
another fireman at the rig.  He told me to hang on for
a second.  Hang on.  He'll get back to me.
          About a half hour later, he got back to us.
He says, "Get whatever equipment that you can get.  Go
back to quarters." So we took -- scavenged up whatever
equipment we could scavenge up.  We took the rig back
6
     Q.   The lieutenant you said you saw, what unit
was he from?  Come up Broadway dazed?
     A.   Oh, like I seen Tommy McGoff, Lieutenant
McGoff.
Q. From?
     A.   Downtown Brooklyn company.  I found out later
he was there when the first fireman was killed by a
jumper, and he went to help the fireman, and half his
company went into the tower, and they were lost, and he
couldn't find them.  That's why he was in the state he
was in, but that was -- I heard that story later.
          I didn't know what the story was.  I tried to
talk to him, but he just kept on walking, and that's --
and then there's a lot of other stories.  You know,
that's the basics of what I did that day.
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTIS:  Very good.  The
     time is about approximately 12:05, and that
     concludes the interview.  Thanks, Pete.
P. CASTELLANO
to quarters.  We got our rig back into service at
quarters and left the firehouse around -- I guess
around 10 or 11.
File No. 9110399
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER FRED MARSILLA
   Interview Date:  December 27, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
F. MARSILLA
2
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Today's date is
     December 27, 2001.  The time is approximately 1220
     hours.  My name is Battalion Chief Art Lakiotes.
     Safety Command, New York City Fire Department.
     Q.   I'm conducting an interview with?
     A.   Fred Marsilla, Firefighter first grade.
     Q.   Ladder 149.  Regarding the events of
September 11, 2001.  Fred, if you would just take me
through your day as the events unfolded for you and
your experience of that day.
     A.   Okay.  As I recall, I was just about to
finish my 24 tour, when we were watching TV, and saw
the first plane hit, reports of it, and they didn't
know what it was and the tour to come on wasn't
supposed to be coming in that day because of
educational day, so I had to wait until 9 o'clock to be
relieved.  Actually 9 o'clock came around and we were
out of service at the time.  I believe the second plane
hit a little after nine, 9:03 or so.  Being that we
were all off duty technically, we had the response
ticket saying that we were off duty.
          Second plane hits and everyone is still
here.  We couldn't believe what we were seeing.
Immediately our Lieutenant called over to the Chief and
F. MARSILLA
3
asked him if we were going to be in service or not.
The Chief actually told him no, stay out of service.
At that reply, Lieutenant told him no way, we are going
to be in service, I'm calling dispatch to tell them we
are going to stay in service.  We did that and
immediately after, we told the dispatcher, they sent us
down to the mustering station at the Battery Tunnel.
We were like 7th to arrive there.  They sent 5 units
across.  The last unit I don't believe made it
through.  I think it was 228.  They had closed it due
to reports of a collapse.
          As we looked in horror, the first one came
down and that's probably what it was that caught them
in there, much to our disbelief.  We couldn't believe
that this was happening obviously.  No one could.
          At this point, the Chief sent a few companies
inside to help them, help get some of the civilians out
that were stuck in the tunnel.  They told us and the
companies behind us start mustering at the Brooklyn
Bridge.  We went over there and were the first on the
bridge.  The amount of people that were coming over
that bridge covered in debris was really an incredible
sight.
          Second one comes down at this point.  They
F. MARSILLA
4
sent us over immediately after it comes down.  We
muster, originally I believe at Church and Chambers.
Actually, let me see what street I came over the tunnel
with.  I believe that was Chambers and Church.
Perfect.  Originally it was Chambers and Church.  Then
they sent us all the way down to Chambers and West,
right by the Manhattan complex there.
     Q.   Stuyvesant High School, the big white bridge
that's there?
     A.   Right.
     Q.   Yes.
     A.   Is that Manhattan Community College also?
     Q.   I think Manhattan Community College is on the
east side and Stuyvesant High School is on the west
side.
     A.   Right.  That's where they sent us.  We all
took our gear and prepared to do what we had to do.
Had a little scare there at Stuyvesant, saying there
was a secondary device and we all ran.  Upon
reassembling, the Chief sent us down to Vesey and
West.  Upon getting down to Vesey and West, they told
the officer to man Ladder 12.  So I jumped in the
bucket with another one of my members.  They tried to
supply us water as best as they could.  It was very bad
F. MARSILLA
5
pressure.  We were pouring water on, I believe the
customs building there.  Customs building, Ladder 3 and
hazmat truck.  Incredible, incredible stuff.
          At this point, 7, which is right there on
Vesey, the whole corner of the building was missing.  I
was thinking to myself we are in a bad place, because
it was the corner facing us.  But you do what you got
to do as usual.  We operated till they finally started
pulling people back.  At that point they had reports of
people missing in the customs building garage.  The
officer went down there with a squad company, I
believe, and he started searching.  I followed him into
the garage area and he told me to wait there for him
and give him a guide in case he needed help out.
          I waited there until he made it back out.  He
got back out.
     Q.   Do you know what officer that was?
     A.   Officer -- Lieutenant Stringer, yes.  He went
in actually --
     Q.   Lieutenant Stringer?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Is that your officer?
     A.   Uh-huh.  Actually I waited at the garage door
like he told me and provided light for him to come back
F. MARSILLA
6
and he finally came back and we reported back to Vesey
and West.  At that point, they were backing some of the
units out.  I don't exactly recall if we stayed there
quite a while or not, but I do remember going around
the Financial Center at that point, the American
Express building, through the back yard there and you
could see through the atrium.
     Q.   We must have passed each other a number of
times?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Because I did that route a few times.
     A.   Then around that area and then as you came
around, then you get the other view from the other side
because it was closed off, that building, the
pedestrian bridge going down.  That whole other area
was basically closed off to the rest of the units.
          Got around to that side.  That's when we saw
the incredible things that took place and the amount of
bravery that everybody was taking to try and help as
best as they can.  Bucket lines and people digging.
Debris was incredible, how much of it was across the
street.  You couldn't even tell the street from the
sidewalk.  It didn't look like a big pile at first, but
you realized it later on because it was a gradual
F. MARSILLA
7
outlaying of material.  It gradually increased in
height as you went along, so it was like climbing a
hill, you really don't know how high you are until you
are up there.
     Q.   The perception wasn't real till you saw
firemen standing on the pile.  You could barely see
them.
     A.   Barely see them.
     Q.   Then you have a perception of the mass that
was there.
     A.   How deep it was.  And how high it is.  I mean
you were actually standing sometimes 15, 20 stories
up.  It wasn't that much of a fall, because there was a
lot of material along the way.
     Q.   Yes, but it was --
     A.   It was just incredible.  We operated there, I
told the officer we should have a designated point
where we should meet in case we get lost.  So we
operated there for a while and probably throughout the
course of the day we got lost a couple of times from
each other, but we always found each other back.  Like
I said, we were probably there from 10 o'clock till, I
didn't say this before, but being that we worked that
day, 10 o'clock till later on at that night, till 12 or
F. MARSILLA
8
so.  And just running into the other brothers from our
fire house, guys that called on recall.  Somehow we all
seemed to find each other.
          We worked together for a while here.  Worked
together for a while there.  Rested a little bit.  They
pulled us back, I think it was like probably between 4
and 6, because of 7.  7 was the concern at that time.
I didn't even hear it come down.  Didn't hear it come
down.
     Q.   Where were you?
     A.   I was right by the marina.  So I guess it was
a building in front of me that protected me from the
noise, the rubble, plus there was so much noise going
on with the machinery and the people there.  Lot of
background stuff going on.  Never saw it come down.
          I guess they waited till it cleared up and
then we went back in again, did what we had to do.
Took quick breaks when we needed them, because at that
point, no one was -- everybody was just -- work best
you can.
     Q.   Running on adrenaline?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Yes.
     A.   12 o'clock rolls around and most of the
F. MARSILLA
9
brothers at this point just wanted to take a blow so
they could regroup for the next day.  It might have
even have been later, I just remember that time for
some reason.  We all walked over to 6, Engine 6.  Some
guys wanted to take showers, some guys wanted to clean
up.  They had no electricity, no water, so a lot of
guys decided to just make it to the bridge.  Some guys
who came on the recall went in their own cars and they
went home.  I decided to stay.  I just --- I couldn't
leave.
          Pete and I made our way back.  Pete
Castellano stayed with me.  We made our way back to the
scene.  Actually cleaned up a little, found a place
that did have water.  Cleaned up a little, made it back
to the scene.  I believe we started helping the
companies that were on the scene from the front of the
building at this time.  This point we found our rig,
which was located on Church and Fulton.  So we had a
good reference point as to what to go to.  They had
operated on the plaza's buildings there in front.
     Q.   Number 5?
     A.   Yes, they were engulfed with fire I heard.
     Q.   I saw pictures of that.  Never made it around
there, but I saw pictures of it.
F. MARSILLA
10
A. Ofiton fire?
Q. Oh, yes.
A. I didn't see that any of this.
Q. (inaudible)?
A. There was so much fire on every floor. Must
have been a hell of a job just putting those out.  Pete
and I made our way down to the center between 4 and 5,
and at that point they had located someone in an
elevator shaft, so we all just, we formed a line
passing stuff down.
     Q.   Bucket brigade?
     A.   Bucket brigade.  It wasn't even a bucket
brigade.
     Q.   But similar to it though.
     A.   Yes, similar to it.
     Q.   Bucket brigade with no buckets.
     A.   No buckets, just material.  Acetylene torches
and water and stokes and ladders.  We were just passing
them down to these guys.  I stayed in the line with
Pete.  You know Pete, he's got to dig his nose in it
there.  He dug his way up to the front.  He was
actually helping them.  He was holding the line for a
while, trying to put down some of the fire, while all
these guys were digging this guy out.
F. MARSILLA
11
Around 4:00 o'clock from there, we went back to the rig. At this point it's freezing cold and we are all wet. I managed to have an extra shirt that I gavetoPetetoputiton. Wesatintherigfora while and the rig wasn't being used. They were trying to get new companies in and out of there. No one would give us a straight answer if we could pull our rig out or not.
          So we found -- actually I think we asked the
dispatcher, I told him there were only 2 companies with
the rig and that they wanted us to remain on the
scene.  They said no, go back and be prepared for the
next day tour.  So we ended up getting our rig, I drove
back, drove our rig back.  We got back by 6, 6:30
maybe.  At that point, the guys who slept over, the
guys who were coming in were coming in as well, so I
took a shower, shower, the guys started cleaning up the
rig as best as they could.  Replenishing whatever they
could on it, being that everything is depleted.
     Q.   They were all stripped.  All the rigs are
stripped.
     A.   Absolutely, all the rigs were stripped.
Actually, we did have our cylinders, though, so -- and
our masks.  9 o'clock came around and I had to go home
F. MARSILLA
12
and see the family and appreciate them a little bit.
     Q.   Yes.
     A.   Then I went home for that day and came back
the next day for 24 hours.
     Q.   Very good.  It was a tough day for
everybody.
     A.   Yes, absolutely.
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES:  That concludes the
     interview.  It is approximately 12:35.  Thank you,
     Pete.
File No. 9110400
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER GERARD PISANO
   Interview Date: December 27, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
G. PISANO
2
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Today's date is
     December 27, 2001.  The time is approximately 14
     hundred hours.  My name is Chief Art Lakiotes,
     Safety Command of the New York City Fire
     Department.
     Q.   I'm conducting an interview with?
     A.   Gerard Pisano, Firefighter, Ladder 149.
     Q.   This is in regard to the events of September
11, 2001.  Jerry, if you would, just take me through
the day, how the events unfolded for you, and just kind
of tell me.
     A.   That day we were assigned -- detailed to the
rock for education day.  As I was going to the rock, I
was listening to the radio on the car, I heard that the
first plane hit, a small commuter plane they called
it.  As I got to the rock, there was a TV playing in
the front, and my Captain and three or four other
members who were detailed there were watching the TV
and we were assigned to come back -- actually as we
were watching the TV, the second plane hit.
          We were told right away to go back to our
unit, where we would be, you know, everybody
reassembled and probably get detailed down to the rock
to the staging area, I mean to the site or to a staging
area.
G. PISANO
3
          We did, we all got in our cars, we came back
to the fire house.  As we did that, the Captain that
lives up the block was coming down the block.  He took
charge of us.  About three or four cars got loaded up
and we went to the staging area at, I believe Brooklyn
Bridge.  Actually we parked at Ladder 118's quarters,
on that block, got together, we got as much hand tools
and stuff.  We walked over the bridge and we assembled
over, I think it's Broadway and I forget what block
that is.  Let me see.  Probably, yes, it was Broadway
and Vesey.  Right over there by Saint Pauls Church.
          At that time it was -- you could tell there
was a lot of things going on.  We just waited to be
assigned.  That's about it.  During the day, we were
going back and forth.  We were assigned to another
officer and we were told to make a search somewhere,
but we had no masks.  We spent a good part of the day
trying to find masks.  There were no masks around.
They were being worn by anybody that was on the recall,
which I was pretty much.  Working that day on the
truck.  So we had no masks.  Then all we had was dust
masks and that's all.  We kind of like stood by for
most of the day.
G. PISANO
4
          Then into the night, we were digging on the
pile.  Just free hand, you know, just going down there
and doing whatever we could do.
     Q.   What time did you finally get back to the
fire house, how did you get back to the fire house?
     A.   Our own car, we went back to 118.  We got --
     Q.   You walked back --
     A.   Bus or something.  I think we got a bus that
was going over the bridge.  We started walking over the
Brooklyn Bridge and a bus was coming back with a bunch
of firefighters.  They stopped for us, we got on there
and they let us off right on the other side, which our
cars were parked, 118.  We got into our cars and we
came back here.  Stayed here.
          Then I went back to the site, World Trade
Center, the next morning at 9 o'clock.  Then that
schedule came down, the A, B and C, 12 on, 12 off.  24
on, 24 off.  I think it was the first day.
     Q.   Then they changed it to 24 --
     A.   They changed it very fast.
     Q.   They changed it a few times.
     A.   Few times.
     Q.   Where were you when the buildings collapsed,
do you remember?
G. PISANO
5
A. Yes,Iwason--Iwasinmycar. Iwason the BQE. Saw the first one, had a member in my car and I was driving and he told me there was -- that the building collapsed. I didn't believe him at first and then when I looked over, when I was able to look over, because I was following behind a police car, I was able to look over and I couldn't believe it. I saw the brown smoke.
     Q.   A lot of it.  Amazing.  Then were you at the
Brooklyn Bridge when the second building came down?
     A.   No, when we came back.  The second one, I
think I was en route to the Brooklyn Bridge.
     Q.   Walking from 118's quarters?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   It was very hard.  A lot of people coming
back the other direction?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Mass exodus.  You were walking on the
roadways or were you walking on the walkway?
     A.   I was on the walkway, and then actually one
of the members was going across because he had all the
tools in his car.  I went across the catwalk to the
roadway and I jumped into his car with a bunch of other
people.  Half the way over.
G. PISANO
6
     Q.   Were you there when 7 came down?
     A.   Yes, I was there when 7 came down.
     Q.   Where were you then?
     A.   I was -- look at the map.  I actually -- I
think it was on -- let me see this.
     Q.   7 was up on Vesey and West.
     A.   Okay.  Right.  I think I was on Murray.
     Q.   Behind it.
     A.   Yes.  We walked all -- we actually -- we were
doing actually fire duty.  It was an Engine with just
an officer and a chauffeur and we jumped into the
Engine.  That's where we got our masks for the night
tour.  There was masks on the rig.  We jumped on there
and there was some car fires on one of these blocks
down here.  I think we were on either Park or Barclay.
That's where we were.  We were on Barclay and figure
like Church.  When 7 came down, maybe we were on Park.
          When 7 came down, there was a Lieutenant and
another member and they went down.  The Lieutenant went
down, he was walking and he took a bad feed of dust.
So we saw him.  We ran over to him.  We picked him up.
We dragged him about a block up to Park and into one of
those lobbies of an office building in it.  During that
time, we were given a man down Mayday.  Officer down,
G. PISANO
7
member down, and we got EMS there right way and we got
oxygen to him and stuff.  I think he's doing okay.
          BATTALION CHIEF LAKIOTES: That's good.
     Okay.  This concludes the interview.  It's
     approximately 1410.
File No. 9110401
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER MICHAEL REGAN
   Interview Date:  December 28, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
M. REGAN
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  December 28, 2001.
     The time is 2:28 p.m.  This is Battalion Chief
     Dennis Kenahan from the Safety Battalion of the
     Fire Department of the City of New York.  I'm
     conducting an interview with Firefighter Mike
     Regan of Engine 53 in the quarters of Engine 53.
     Q.   Mike, just tell us the events as you recall
them from September 11?
     A.   Okay.  Before we headed down to the Trade
Center, we were assigned to a box on 42nd Street.  We
took that box in for a man stuck in an elevator.  Took
us a few minutes to get him out.  We got back on the
rig.  They told us to stay 10-8.  We started heading
back, we started hearing Maydays and everything over
the radio.  Guys being stuck.  We heard guys screaming,
they were stuck under rigs.  We weren't sure what was
going on at the time.
          At about that time, we got an okay from the
dispatcher to head down that way.  We shot across to
the west side, we came up the West Side Drive, West
Side Highway.  We got off the rig.  I don't know how
many blocks.  We were parked a few blocks north and we
headed down.  We got to about the pedestrian bridge,
right off Liberty.  Sorry, the one --
M. REGAN
Q.   The north bridge.
3
     A.   The north bridge.  Right near Vesey.  People
started screaming and running towards us that the
second building was coming down.  We were unaware that
the first building even came down.  We didn't hear
anything over the radio on it.
     Q.   You were working in the truck?
     A.   Sorry, yes, I was in the truck that day.  The
Engine went down before us.  They went down on --
Q. Ladder 43?
     A.   Right.  Okay.  As everybody was running
towards us, we waited for the cloud to disperse a
little bit.  Then we started heading in.  People were
running towards us.  I was giving oxygen to people that
were gasping for air, and when we finally got in there,
there were a couple of Chiefs and a couple of people
yelling and screaming about you know, fire over there,
secondary explosions and we stretched a line off a rig
and started putting out fires, me and Jerry Suden.
Lieutenant Rohan told us to stay with that, that we
would team back up.
          I guess we were operating for -- it's hard to
tell time, I mean time, time was so -- but we put out,
I don't know, a couple of trucks, a couple of rigs, a
M. REGAN
4
couple of civilian cars, then they started taking guys
off the roof of, I think it was building 6.  We helped
them take them down in the stretchers.  We got a few of
them out.  We teamed back up with Lieutenant Rohan.
          He got an assignment to -- he heard there was
a Mayday for -- Battalion 2 was stuck inside.  We
hooked up with him and Battalion Chief Ferran.  So it
was me, Jerry Suden, Lieutenant Rohan, Johnny Colon,
all from 43 Truck, and we headed over towards -- we
went down Vesey to Church Street.  We went into
building number 5.  We headed down the escalator of
building number 5 and then we headed up into -- looked
like a big crater.  We found out later on that Chief
Picciotto had some kind of megaphone.  He had that
going, and we started heading up that way.
          We made it -- couple of us made it up there.
There were a couple of guys coming back down that were
hurt, so me and I think it was Todd Frederickson helped
them down, back out of the crater.  We took them down,
EMS met us down in the bottom of building 5.  They
brought them back up to the ambulance.  We went back in
and it wasn't as clear as it was when we first were in
there.  They already went ahead, Rohan and a couple of
the other guys.
M. REGAN
5
          We were calling for them.  We couldn't get to
them.  They kept on going up.  We stayed there for a
while.  We couldn't get in touch with them so Ferran
was with us at that time.  He came back out with us.
We regrouped in building 5, we got a bunch of guys
together, we went out on to Church Street and we got
some tools.  He wanted to go back in and try to find
another way in.  We ended up coming around Church
Street.  I think we went down Liberty over to the west
side.  We tried getting in that way.  They ended up
coming out on the west side.  That's where we hooked
back up with them.  That's about all.
          They wouldn't let us back in.  I don't know
what else.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Okay.  That's good
     Mike.  Thanks a lot Mike, for your help.  The time
     now is 2:34 p.m.  This concludes the interview.
File No. 9110402
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER DENNIS FISCHER
   Interview Date:  December 28, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
D. FISCHER
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  December 28, 2001.
     The time is 3:07 p.m.  This is Battalion Chief
     Dennis Kenahan of the Safety Battalion for the
     Fire Department of the City of New York.  I'm
     conducting an interview with Dennis Fischer,
     Firefighter from Engine 35 in the quarters of
     Engine 36.
     Q.   Dennis, just tell us the events as you recall
them on September 11.
     A.   Okay, basically I remember being in house
watch slightly after 9 o'clock and seeing an explosion
in one of the Trade Centers and shortly after that
while I was still in house watch, we actually watched
live the second plane hit the second building.  As far
as I can remember, we started gathering up all the
tools we could because obviously we knew something big
was going down.
          I think maybe 15 minutes after the second
plane hit, we got the call to go down.  The ticket came
in and we headed down.  We didn't know at the time on
our way down, during our trip down on West Street, the
first tower had collapsed.  That we found out
afterwards.  We didn't even know the first tower was
down.  We arrived down on West Street.  I believe we
D. FISCHER
3
stopped somewhere originally around West Street and
Chambers Street and slowly we got a little bit closer.
We had a Battalion Chief with us, got us a little bit
closer so we weren't going to have to carry our
equipment that far.
          We passed a bunch of rigs parked along West
Street.  I'm not exactly sure where we stopped.  I'm
going to venture a guess it was somewhere between
Chambers and Murray Street on the southbound side of
West Street.
     Q.   Who was the Battalion Chief you were with?
     A.   Yes, actually I was with on Engine 35, it was
Lieutenant Whalen was the officer that day and Billy
Van Name was driving.  I was on the -- I was in the
back with myself, Keith Schroeder, Jim Powers, Brendan
Lowrey and a Battalion Chief Mark Ferran also had
jumped on the rig and came down with us and Lieutenant
Mike Hadden also came on the rig with us.  We had a
total of about 8 people.
          Chief Ferran was able to get us a little bit
closer and we wind up parking.  About that time, Chief
Ferran and Lieutenant Hadden walked ahead of us a
little bit, trying to find out what was going on and
myself and the rest of 35, we grabbed our equipment,
D. FISCHER
4
our rollups, control bag and we started walking down
West Street.  Basically we made it pretty far down
towards the Trade Center area.  I believe we stopped
somewhere between Murray Street and Vesey Street.  I
think we pretty much made it almost to Vesey Street and
right behind an ambulance parked on the side of the
road, a Lieutenant instructed us to drop our gear.
          A couple of us looked up at the building.
One of the firemen had mentioned he didn't think he saw
the first tower.  A couple of us gazed up and we
weren't sure if we saw one or not.  Time is kind of
fuzzy, but I would say maybe a minute after we dropped
our gear, the Lieutenant was going to walk up to the
command post and find out what was going on.
          He got maybe 40 to 50 feet ahead of us.  At
that point, a bunch of people started running towards
us, running north on West Street.  At that point, a
police officer stopped briefly as he was running by
us.  He said guys --  can I say what he said?
Q. Yes.
     A.   Guys, get the fuck out of here that building
is going to come down.  It's coming down.  That
building is coming down.  We looked at each other.  We
kind of looked around, we didn't really think it was
D. FISCHER
5
going to happen.  Maybe 15, 20 seconds after he said
that, we heard the rumbling.  We looked up, that I
remember as plain as day.  I looked up and I saw from
the top, I actually watched it with my own eyes, I saw
the top start to pancake down.  I remember looking at
the proby I was with.  We looked at each other in
amazement.  The time seemed to like stand still for a
second.  We looked at each other.  We looked back up.
We looked back at each other.  It seemed like a bunch
of time went by.  It was probably like a fraction of a
second.  Everybody started just running the other way.
I saw my Lieutenant as I was looking forward that was
ahead of me running towards me, just waving me, just
run, run.  We just left our gear and just started
running north on West Street.
          I remember looking back and once it was all
coming down, I was obviously far enough away where I
wasn't going to be hit with debris, but I remember the
cloud coming towards me and I remember thinking this is
going to come get me faster than I can get away from
this.  I remember for a split second I wasn't sure if
it was heat or smoke or -- I didn't know what was going
to happen.  I thought maybe we would get incinerated.
I didn't know if it was just a ball of fire.  I didn't
D. FISCHER
6
know it was just dust.
          The cloud of dust pretty much caught up to
us.  It overtook us and there was never really a time
though that you couldn't breathe.  It was really thick
around you, but there was never a time when you
couldn't get enough oxygen.  I remember in the
confusion running, I lost most of the company, just
took off for themselves, we lost each other.  I
remember following the light blue shirt of my officer
and I wound up in Stuyvesant High School, a little bit
further north.  I just kept running until I saw him
ditch off to the side.  Somebody was waving us into the
high school from the front doors.
          I jumped into there, into Stuyvesant High
School and found one other guy from my company.  We
stayed in there for about maybe 2 minutes, until the
big cloud of dust.  It was like black outside,
completely black.  Even after just a couple of minutes
it started lightening up, so we figured it was okay.
So we grabbed a couple of masks that were just random
on the ground.  There was equipment laying everywhere.
Couple of guys were just taking a blow.  Me and my
officer took masks.  We threw on the masks and we
walked out of Stuyvesant High School and started
D. FISCHER
7
looking for the rest of our company.
          Within about 15 minutes, we found everybody
from Engine 35.  A few of us were in the high school.
We found a few guys on the street.  We ran into Chief
Ferran.  We knew that we had everybody we came down
with.  Except for Lieutenant Hadden.  The last we saw
him, we knew that he walked further up north with Chief
Ferran, but Chief Ferran had lost Lieutenant Hadden.
Afterwards I know they might have been walking up,
trying to meet people at the command post, so I teamed
up with Chief Ferran and we searched the area for a
little while.
          Lieutenant Whalen and one of the other guys
from 35 were searching the area.  We switched to a
different channel.  We were looking back and forth to
each other.  A little bit of time went by, maybe 15
minutes, we found Lieutenant Hadden.  We had everybody
accounted for.  After that we just did anything we
could.  We picked up a line here and there.  We put out
a couple of car fires and I would say within 20 minutes
of the initial -- after the second collapse, myself,
Keith Schroeder from 35 and one of the Lieutenants from
35, Lieutenant Hadden, we actually found a hand line
from -- I'm not even sure, maybe 24 Engine somewhere,
D. FISCHER
8
it was a two and a half.  We operated a line underneath
the second foot bridge that was collapsed.
     Q.   The northern foot bridge, by Vesey?
     A.   Yes, the first foot bridge over there.  It
was collapsed in one spot.  There was about a 3 foot
opening.  There was a void underneath about -- you were
able to crawl.  You couldn't stand up.  There was one
guy from Squad in there and another fireman.  I don't
know who it was, but there was a couple of crushed rigs
under there and a couple of cars.  The cars were on
fire underneath there and so was the rig, so all we
basically tried to do, we went for the rig first, we
tried to extinguish the fire in the cab, hoping maybe
we could find a fireman in the cab.  It was crushed too
far to get anybody out.  We didn't even know if there
was anybody in there.
          The car fires, we tried to put out.  They
were starting to light up underneath there.  We didn't
have much room at that point.  A Chief and my other
Lieutenant from 35 just made a motion for to us get the
hell out of there.  They thought maybe that thing was
going to come down on us.  It felt like kind of a
futile effort at the time.  We were just doing anything
we could.  I guess that was -- I guess that pretty much
D. FISCHER
9
-- when we came out of the foot bridge, that had to be
at least now about 45 minutes after the second
collapse.
          Then we just kind of  regrouped and took a
little blow after that.  That was the immediate stuff
that we did.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  That's fine,
     Dennis.  The time now is 3:15 p.m.  This concludes
     the interview.  Thank you Dennis.
File No. 9110403
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER TODD FREDRICKSON
   Interview Date: December 28, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
T. FREDRICKSON
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today's date is
     December 28, 2001.  The time is 1:38 p.m.  This is
     Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan from the Safety
     Battalion of the Fire Department of the City of
     New York.  I'm conducting an interview with Todd
     Fredrickson, Firefighter from Ladder 43 in the
     quarters of Ladder 43.
     Q.   Todd, just tell your story as you recall it
from September 11.
     A.   We responded down West Side Highway, we
didn't get that close because there were so many rigs
backed up, so we got out of the rig.  We started
walking down.  We got pretty much to West and Vesey
when the building collapsed.  A big cloud of smoke was
coming down.  We tried forcing the gate right next to a
building in an effort to get everybody that was running
down the street into somewhere that was a little more
secluded.
          But by the time we were getting through the
gate, the cloud was already on us.  I guess guys didn't
know if it was going to be hot or not.  Some guys were
putting their mask on.  It wound up not being hot and
we just started making our way down the street towards
the World Trade Center.  On the way down there was a
T. FREDRICKSON
3
cop.  I guess we had jumped in the back of his police
car, which I guess you can't get out of once you got
in.
          We got him out of there and then we just kept
walking down.  There was a bunch of fires all over the
place.  Stuff burning across the street, cars, cars,
rigs.  It was -- someone gave a signal for an EMS, the
police emergency unit, whatever it's called.
Q. A 10-13?
     A.   No, whatever the police's rig.  Emergency
response.
Q. ESU?
     A.   Yes, ESU.  They had one of their rigs on
fire.  They said there was ammunition in there so we
were stretching a line there initially to put that
out.  I started jumping up on rigs and just putting the
deck guns on and spraying it wherever there was fire.
It was all over.  Then we realized that that wasn't
really what was important right now so we started
moving towards the rubble.
          Someone gave a Mayday.  I guess it was
someone trapped under one of the pedestrian bridges.
We started to go under there to look.  One of the
Chiefs pulled us out of there.  He said don't go under
T. FREDRICKSON
4
there.  I saw them -- it was pretty chaotic.  So we
started to move towards, I believe it was this
building, it was a black building, US customs
building.  That was still standing or relatively still
standing.  I'm not sure if it was the lower portion of
one of the buildings, like a vestibule.  It was like 4
or 5 stories.
          We put a ladder up.  We went up there and
there was a fireman that had been killed.  He was
obviously dead and we just put a -- his jacket over him
and then we just kept searching.  We hooked up with one
of the Chiefs there, Mark Ferran.  Me, Lieutenant
Rohan, who else was there, Johnny Colon and the Chief
were all up there.  We had radio contact with Chief
Picciotto and a couple of guys he was trapped with.  We
had no idea where they were.  They were telling us
where they were, but we didn't really know what
everything was, because we are not familiar with the
layout down there and it was very confusing as far as
the rubble was all piled on top of everything.
          So they said they were probably on the fifth,
sixth floor of a building in the stairwell, so we
started searching.  We got up on that vestibule.  We
were searching in there.  We couldn't really find -- we
T. FREDRICKSON
5
couldn't really get a good idea where we were going.
We decided we would pull out of there and we searched
for a while in there and a couple of stairwells and we
realized that it probably wasn't even the right
building, so we went back down and I think we came out
back where we were.  We came out on Vesey Street.
          Then we decided to grab some tools and then
we started heading down towards Church Street.  Then we
made a right on Trinity and we came in through the
other side.  A lot of it I'm confused about, where I
was at particular times.  We actually wound up coming
down in through that underground area, promenade, I
don't know what they call it, the lower portion of the
Trade Center.  Like there is a little mall down there.
          We were just trying to get to where we
thought they would be, so we came into this one area
down below there.  We sort of split up.  The Chief and
myself went up through this hole.  Everybody else
followed Lieutenant Rohan.  We had hooked up with a
couple of guys from our company, Bobby Markardt, a
couple of other guys.  I think Mike Regan was with
them, I think Johnny Colon was there.  Tom Corrigan.
They had went into an escalator, they went sort of
under the rubble and up an escalator.  They went one
T. FREDRICKSON
6
way.  We sort of branched out to try to have two prongs
of getting them.
          Me and the Chief went up through this hole up
into the rubble and on top of the rubble.  At that
point, there was a security guard that was stumbling
through the rubble and there was a fireman who had
-- he had his bunker pants on and a T-shirt, and his
suspenders.  Everything else was missing.  He was in
bad shape.  I was the only guy that had a mask on at
that point.
          I had it with me.  I wasn't wearing it, and
the Chief and other guys come and blow because there
was still a lot of smoke in there and there was all
smoke and it was hot.  Chief is like, take these guys
out.  I took two guys.  Actually there was another
fireman there.  I don't know what company he was from.
This is after the buildings fell.
          Me and that other fireman took -- actually
the other fireman, I know what company he was from, but
he said he was in the subway when it collapsed.  He
wasn't in the collapse itself, but he was -- I guess he
just hugged the wall and he thought he was in badder
shape than he was and he finally came up the subway and
I just sort of wound up hooking up with him.
T. FREDRICKSON
7
          Me and him dragged -- we got a security guard
who could walk and the other guy was in bad shape.  We
dragged him out.  He kept laying down and saying leave
me.  Leave me.  I'm going to die.  I said listen, get
up, because there is other people that want to get out
of here, so don't fucking play this game.  He thought
he was in the movies or something.
          We dragged him out, we didn't go out the same
way we came in.  We went down the subway and back up
the subway.  I'm not really sure where we came out.
I'm going to say we came out back over here because I
was going in the original direction, then I ran into
some firemen and they said your best way out is down
the subway and back up.  We took those two guys down,
laid them in the street and one guy they just put in
the ambulance and the other guy was just getting
treatment.
     Q.   That was probably Church Street where you are
talking about?
     A.   I'm going to say it was Church Street.
Actually there was a picture in Time Magazine of just
where we had brought the guy out.  I don't know --
there was a subway station right there.  I don't really
know where it was, but assuming it was there, I grabbed
T. FREDRICKSON
8
a bottle of water and then I started heading back.
          As I was going back, the Chief, he got turned
around in the smoke or something and he couldn't find
the hole that we came back up.  So I started making a
move towards him a little quicker.  On my way there,
they were pulling everybody out.  So the Chief is like,
you can't go in there, you can't go in there.  I'm like
well, there is a Chief trapped in there.  I guess they
thought that I was delirious or something.  They are
like oh, no, we searched in there.  I'm like all
right.  Whatever.  I wasn't going to stand there and
argue with them, so I just kept going to where the hole
I went in.
          Went back up that hole.  The Chief was -- I
had to go into the hole and then walk a ways until I
finally saw the Chief and I'm like Chief, over here.  I
went back out that hole.  The radio was starting to die
because we just had been using them so long.  I mean
this is going on for hours and hours.  I'm just giving
you the more pertinent points.
          The Chief's radio was just about dead.  Mine
was still sort of working.  We were getting calls from
Chief Picciotto.  He had a bull horn and he was hitting
that off.  We could hear where it was coming from, but
T. FREDRICKSON
9
all you could see was smoke.  You had no idea if it was
up or down.  You knew it was up, but you didn't know if
there was a drop or what was going on.
          We started to make a move there and the Chief
was like no, let's try coming from a different way,
because it seemed like it was pretty far away from us.
We went back out, I think -- I'm going to say it was
just me and the Chief right now.  I think we ran into
Johnny Colon.  We came back out to Trinity, I'm not
really sure where we came out.
Q. Okay.
     A.   I'm going to say we came back out.  We
walked, I think around and we came back to West Side
Highway and there was a bunch of Chiefs here.  Then he
was talking to the Chiefs for a while.  Everybody was
pretty shot, you know.  We were drinking out of the can
and everybody was pretty exhausted.  We got there.
There was a couple of Chiefs arguing.  No one really
knew what to do.  It was pretty chaotic.  The Chiefs
are saying don't go in, don't go in, and then Chief
Ferran was like, let's go in, we have to find these
guys.
          Now at this point we thought Lieutenant Rohan
was lost too because their radios were dead and there
T. FREDRICKSON
10
was no contact with them.  So now we are like, we lost
those guys, because we didn't know what was going on
there.  We started headed back into the rubble and I
think we went into the 3 World Trade Center.  The
building was half demolished.  We went in, we climbed
up over on top of the rubble till we get to a window.
We went in the window and we searched in there for a
while.
          We hooked up with a retired guy and another
guy, I don't know where he was from.  We searched with
those guys for a while.  We searched that building and
then we started making another move in and we got
pulled out again, because I guess the Chiefs were
getting more of control in the situation.  They pulled
everybody out of there.
          They conversed for a while and one of the
guys from 22, I think it was 22 or 13, his brother was
lost in there.  He is going what the fuck is everyone
standing around here for, let's go in, let's give one
more push, so I hooked up with him and two other
firemen, went back in and searched around for a while.
He started to realize it was sort of futile and
everybody was shot.  We pulled back out and that was
pretty much the end of what we did.
T. FREDRICKSON
11
          But I mean that was eight hours into -- I
mean it was probably like four or five o'clock before
we stopped.  Then we all went down to the water.  Then
we ran into Lieutenant Rohan about a half an hour
later.  We realized that they were okay and that they
had pulled out the Chief, Chief Picciotto, and the guys
from, I think it was 6 or 7 truck.  That's all the
pertinent information I can think.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN: Okay.  That's good.
          Thank you Todd, if you have anything else you
     want to discuss, okay.  Well, thank you for your
     help.  The time now is 1:50 and this concludes the
     interview.
File No. 9110404
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         LIEUTENANT GLEN ROHAN
   Interview Date:  December 28, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
G. ROHAN 2
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today's date is
     December 28, 2001, and the time is 12:55
     p.m.   This is Battalion Chief Dennis
     Kenahan from the Safety Battalion of the
     Fire Department of the City of New York.
     I'm conducting an interview with Lieutenant
     Glen Rohan from Ladder 43 in the quarters of
     Ladder 43.
     Q.   Glen, just state the facts as you
remember them from September 11th.
     A.   Okay.  Ladder 43 was assigned after the
second plane hit the second tower.  Engine 53
went on the box, went out on the second fifth
alarm to respond to the Trade Center.
Approximately two minutes later we got a box to
respond to 41st Street for a pedestrian with
their foot stuck in a turnstile at 41st and
Lexington Avenue.
          So we proceeded to that box and
found -- there was an ambulance there already.
We did find a pedestrian with their foot stuck.
43 truck helped the maintenance people in the
building get the person out, and we left and gave
a signal 1037 for that box.
G. ROHAN 3
          We made ourselves available.  I asked
the dispatcher if he wanted me to proceed south
to the World Trade Center.  We could see the
heavy smoke heading north up the island.  There
wasn't any reports of any collapses of the
building or anything like that, but we knew it
was a difficult job and we wanted to get in on
it.  But the dispatchers told us to remain 10-8
and make ourselves available.
          So we proceeded up Third Avenue heading
back towards quarters, heading north up Third
Avenue, when we heard a radio report on the
department radio of somebody who screamed on the
radio that they needed help.  It was
indiscernible, most of the words, but asking for
help, saying things like "collapse," saying
things like "people hurt," "buildings collapsed."
The dispatcher wasn't able to identify who was
transmitting and tried to get the person to calm
down, but it sounded like something bad had
happened.
          The dispatcher then called for
Manhattan to field comm., called twice,
"Manhattan to field comm."  There was no reply.
G. ROHAN 4
Then the dispatcher asked "Manhattan to the 1st
Division."  There was no reply.  "Manhattan to
the 3rd Division."  No reply.
          I turned to my chauffeur, Johnny Colon,
and I said, "Johnny, this is bad.  Something
happened.  I think the building, part of it,
maybe, might have come down, the top part over
the planes or something."
          He then asked, "Manhattan to any units
operating at the World Trade Center," and there
was no response.  So I said, "I have to get
involved in this."  I called the dispatcher and I
said, "43 to Manhattan.  We're on 57th Street and
the West Side Highway," which is an entrance to
the West Side Highway, which we were close.  I
said, "I'm going to head south and tell you
what's going on."  He said, "Go ahead, 43, take
it in."  So at that point, now, we were assigned
to the box.
          So we headed down the West Side
Highway.  There was absolutely zero traffic.  We
flew down there in probably two minutes.  There
was no reports on the radio of any collapse of
the building.  We could see a lot of smoke
G. ROHAN 5
heading north, and we could only see one tower
still remaining.
          But from our angle and how I wasn't
really sure how the buildings were configured
down there, I thought maybe the building is being
blocked by one of the buildings or maybe part of
it came down and the rest of it is in smoke.  Not
enough for me to make a call to say I think the
building is down.  But we knew there had to be a
partial collapse or something.
          There was a lot of people heading --
thousands of people, it seemed, were running
north on West Street.  We proceeded down West as
far south as we can go, and we parked at
approximately Barclay Street.  Probably between
Murray and Barclay is where we stopped the rig.
          We got everybody off the rig.  We got a
game plan, made sure everybody knew what our plan
of attack would be and not to be running and not
to be bringing the wrong tools, stuff like that.
          We got it together, and we were walking
south now down the West Side Highway, West
Street.  We got approximately to Vesey, a little
further past Vesey, I would say about 200 feet
G. ROHAN 6
from the tower, when we heard a noise.  I
wouldn't even call it an explosion, but it was
enough to make you look up.
          When we looked up, you could see things
coming off the sides of the building of what was
then number One World Trade Center.  We looked at
it for probably about five seconds before I
realized that this building is coming down.
There was a lot of people standing around looking
up.  I just said, "Let's get out of here."  We
ran north up the West Side Highway.
          We got back to about Barclay Street,
maybe around the New York Telephone Company
building, and ducked into like a service center
or loading dock of the New York Telephone Company
building and let the cloud try to go by.  As it
did go by, as it flew by us, and then actually
there was so much of it circled us and enveloped
us.
          At that point we all put our masks on,
and we just hooked up a search rope and started
walking back south.  When we got to around the
pedestrian bridge, that had been collapsed on top
of rigs.  We started searching through the rigs.
G. ROHAN 7
A lot of Fire Department apparatus were under the
pedestrian bridge.  A lot of them were a little
north of the pedestrian bridge.  We couldn't see
anything south of the pedestrian bridge because
it was blocking our whole entrance into the World
Trade Center.  There was a lot of automobile
fires, a lot of Fire Department apparatus fires.
          I responded with six firefighters.  One
guy had stayed back.  He was going off duty in
the morning, Frank Macchia.  I said, "Frank,
there's probably going to be a recall here
because there's two planes in the towers."  So he
took the run in with us.
          I split the team up into two teams.
Some guys were putting out car fires, and some of
us were searching through the rubble, just
surface rubble, surface search, seeing if we
could find somebody or something.  There was just
a lot of guys that were walking around like in
shell shock, one and two pair guys.  There was
just nothing organized.  Everything was chaotic.
People were looking to do something, but they
really didn't know what to do.
          So luckily while we were searching
G. ROHAN 8
right around the pedestrian bridge trying to look
underneath the bridge to try to get into the rigs
that were on fire underneath the bridge, I ran
into Chief Ferran of the 12th Battalion, who at
that time told me that we have some members that
are trapped and on the radio in One World Trade
Center.
          I said, "Great.  We've got a team.
Let's go get them."  It was a relief to get an
assignment, because it was such a chaotic
experience going on down there.
          So all we had to do was figure out
which building was One World Trade Center,
because we were given this report.  At that time
Chief Ferran just told me, "Richie is stuck."
And I didn't know who Richie was, but I knew
Richie was a fireman.  It ended up it was Chief
Picciotto of the 11th Battalion.
          He said, "Richie is stuck with some
other guys, Jay Jonas, and they're in One World
Trade Center, stairway A."  I said, "Great."  Now
we had to find out which building was One World
Trade Center, because none of us knew what the
configuration was or what it used to be.
G. ROHAN 9
          So we were asking a lot of people.  No
one really seemed to know.  So we assembled our
team, and we went up a 35 foot extension ladder
that was raised against Six World Trade Center.
We tried to get through that into Trade Center
number one.
          That's the first time I saw a
firefighter that was dead.  It was on like a
balcony around Six World Trade Center.  I believe
it was a member of Engine 1.
          We tried to get through Six World Trade
Center, and we couldn't get there.  It was
collapsed in the rear in the east side of it and
the west side of it, and we couldn't make it
through.  We went down through Six World Trade
Center into a parking garage and exited on Vesey
Street.
          I said, "Chief, the only way we're
going to get into the other side of this
collapse" -- because all they could tell us was
they were in a collapsed crater-looking like
area.  So I said it must be the center.
          We went out on Vesey and headed east on
Vesey to Church Street, made a right on Church
G. ROHAN 10
Street and headed south towards Trinity towards
the Millennium Hotel.  Now building number five
was on our right.
          At that point I ran into members of
Engine 53, who were working a pumper into fires
that were burning around building number five.
There were also members from 43 Truck with 53
Engine putting out these car fires, and they
hooked up with us.
          So now I had even more guys with me,
because they wanted to know where we were going.
We said, "We got an assignment.  We've got to get
these guys out that were trapped.  We just have
to find where World Trade Center number one is."
So we hooked up with four other firefighters from
my company.
          When we went to the east entrance,
eastern exposure of trade tower number five, we
were told by a Port Authority guy if we went
through number five we could get to number one.
There was like a mall entrance where you had to
go through a garage, and now we were in like a
mall-type level of building number five.  It had
a bar in there.
G. ROHAN 11
          At that point I saw a couple of
firefighters that were injured, working their way
out of that, because number five also had a
partial collapse.
          We worked our way through number five
into what we thought would be the crater area of
the center.  This Richie was Chief Picciotto.
And the only way that we found him was that he
had a siren with him.  He had a bullhorn that's
carried in the battalion van.  He said he's going
to ring his siren.
          We were operating on channel Number 5,
thank God, because that's the only way we were
able to communicate with him.  Everyone else that
was on 1, it was impossible to talk to anybody.
So luckily he was on 5, which I'm assuming it was
a command channel from the beginning.
          Ferran and myself and Picciotto could
talk very easily to each other.  No one else was
on that channel.  He would hit the siren mode of
this megaphone, and it sounded like a police car.
It went "woo-woo-woo," like that.
          We said, "Hit the siren.  See if we
hear it."  When we first did that, it sounded a
G. ROHAN 12
mile away, but at least it was something to go
on.  There was an escalator in building number
five, escalators going up and escalators going
down.
          When we removed some debris around the
escalator, we were able to go up into what was
the eastern exposure of the crater, where the
center of the World Trade Center was.  All it was
was rubble.  It was steel that had collapsed
inward.  We could barely hear this siren going
off, but it was something enough to go.  I knew
that it was west of us and south.
          So every 20 minutes or so he would
again use this siren, and we zeroed in on him.
It took us, from the time we began to the time we
got to him, about an hour and a half.  From the
time we began our search with the siren, it was
probably an hour and a half to transverse the
crater area with my whole group of guys.
          We had guys around the top of the
crater, on the right side of the crater and on
the left side of the crater.  It wasn't easy to
walk even two guys next to each other through all
this steel.  There were high voids and there were
G. ROHAN 13
fires burning.  It was a dangerous area to be.
But we had an assignment, and we knew you had to
get to these guys.
          They were giving us reports that there
were two firefighters trapped below them and a
chief that was in very bad shape.  So we were
trying to move through this area as quickly as we
can to get to them.  They're also asking us to
make sure rescue was with us because they needed
special equipment to get these guys out.
          But we were pretty much carrying just
about ourselves, because we were dropping tools
as we were going because it was a tough crossing.
It was hard to carry everything that we were
carrying all this way.
          We eventually got through to World
Trade Center number one, and we saw Chief
Picciotto, who was Richie, at the edge of a
stairway.  We basically told him, "This is the
way to come."  We set up a rope, because that
area immediately outside of the collapsed
stairway was very dangerous.  They told us they
had a civilian with them also, a Port Authority
guy with them also.
G. ROHAN 14
          I was very concerned at the point where
are the two guys that are still trapped.  These
guys are okay.  We just had to show them how to
get out of there.  I sent one of my firemen,
Jerry Suden, out with this group of nine guys --
six firemen from Ladder 6, the Port Authority guy
and a civilian -- and told him to take these
people out, go back the way we came.  That's the
only way I knew out of this crater was the way we
came.
          The remaining three of us that were
right there at that time proceeded into the
stairway.  I spoke to Lieutenant Jimmy McGlynn
from 39 Engine who was still there, and he said,
"Glen, you're never going to get them out.  We
need air bags.  We need torches.  We need the
Hearst tool."  I said, "Jimmy, we barely have a
hook with us.  We have a rope.  Let's look at
what's going on here."
          So all those guys left and went out
with my guy to get out of the crater.  As it
turned out, Jerry had to double back because the
way we came was now engulfed in fire.  We
couldn't go back that way.  There was too much
G. ROHAN 15
smoke, too much heat, coming up from the steel.
He had to find another way out.
          What he did is he proceeded still
heading west over --
          (Interruption.)
     A.   Again, Jerry was forced to head
southwest through an area of the crater that he
didn't really know, but he knew that was the only
way to get these people out of there.
          By the time he got to the high point of
the crater on the west exposure of the crater,
there were other members trying to get to us that
way.  There were reports that we were missing,
because the last transmission I had given to
Chief Ferran was before we actually got to
Picciotto.
          He wanted to pull us out.  I knew we
were real close and I said we would be okay but
we would get them out and we would be okay.  But
once I got in the stairway, we couldn't transmit
anymore.  We couldn't communicate.  The radios
weren't any good anymore.
          So I couldn't tell him the men that
were leaving, what we were doing.  So he assumed
G. ROHAN 16
at that point we're in trouble, so he was trying
to get another group of people towards us, that
we might be in trouble.
          So we proceeded into the stairway.
There was two four-inch voids in the corner of
the stairway, of the collapsed stairway, where I
could see the lights shining up from the two
members from 39 Engine that were trapped, exact
two stories below all of the members from Ladder
6 and Chief Picciotto.
          So I looked at the two holes for a
while.  One hole there was no way you were going
to open it up.  There was too much steel.  The
other hole had sheetrock against one of the
sides.  So I knew with sheetrock you had to have
a bay.
          So I took the sheetrock out.  There
were two layers of three-quarter inch sheetrock.
That added up to an inch and a half.  Underneath
that there were metal two by threes.  I was
hoping for two by fours, but I got two by threes.
So that added four and a half inches to a four
inch void, which I thought would be enough to get
these two guys out.
G. ROHAN 17
          I told them to crawl up one flight
towards me, because I wasn't directly over them;
I was on the other side of the stairway.  I told
one of the guys, "Crawl up towards me if you
can."  We have about eight inches now.  I figured
that would be wide enough to get the guys out.
          We sent the rope down from two stories
above where we were and sent the rope down to
them for them to get a handle on the rope and
pull yourselves up.  As soon as I could my hands
on him, I pulled the guy out.  I asked him if the
other guy was any bigger than him, and he said,
"He is bigger than me."  I knew it would be
close.  Jeffrey was scraping on all four sides.
If I needed another inch, I would have had to cut
something with a torch.  It was just enough room
to get them out.
          Before they left, I asked them where's
the chief, because there was an earlier report
there was a chief injured, and I wanted to get to
him.  They never saw him.  They had talked to him
earlier in the day.  They said, "We haven't
talked to him in a while."  They don't think he's
still alive.
G. ROHAN 18
     Q.   Do you know his name, the chief's name?
     A.   It was Chief Prunty from the 2nd
Battalion.  So we said, well, I'm going to go
down and make sure or if it's the last -- we're
going to go get him.
          So all they could tell me was where
they were, which was two stories down.  There was
a door open a couple of inches, and he was
somewhere past the doorway.  But everything was
collapsed against the doorway.
          So I said, "Okay, you go up and out.
There's guys now here.  They'll get you out of
here.  We're going down to get him."  So myself
and two members of my team went down to where
they were.  We found the doorway that was open
about a couple of inches.  We had to climb to the
top of its frame to get through.
          I can still hear his radio receiving,
but he wasn't answering me when I called him.
But I could hear his radio receiving.  I knew he
wasn't far.
          One of the members with me, Mark
Carpiniello, he climbed up in front of me.  I
couldn't even squeeze through, it was that tight.
G. ROHAN 19
He got up through there, went in there, and I was
telling him where if I push through the sheetrock
there -- I knew he was within ten feet of us.
          He wasn't getting through the
sheetrock.  It was like a huge electrical closet
had collapsed against this door frame.  It was
only a foot, if that, on an angle to get in there
he couldn't get through there.  I said, "Try the
other side."  It's about four feet over.  There
was a big electrical-type job box.  "Climb up on
that.  See if you can see some sheetrock over
there, maybe get through that sheetrock."
          He went over there, and he said, "Lou,
he's here.  He's right here."  I said, "All
right.  Check him."  He tried to get a pulse.  He
said, "I can't get a pulse.  I'm not sure,
though."  So I climbed up in there, and I got
into him and I got on top of him.  He was fully
intact.  There was nothing crushing him.  I
checked him.  He was gone.  He was dead.  He
wasn't dead a long time.
          I didn't understand what our losses
could have even been at this point.  I said,
"We've got to get him out.  We've got to get him
G. ROHAN 20
out of here."  He had fallen from a high -- he
must have fallen from another stairwell or
another part of the stairwell, and he landed on
something.  I think that's what -- he was all
broken up inside.  There was light steel on him,
electrical conduits on him.
          Now at this point rescue was above us,
and rescue was sending down tools to us.  One of
the guys from rescue came down from Rescue 4,
Dave -- I have his name.  So we had saws-all and
things like that.
          We cut all the steel away from his back
that we could, and we got ropes on him.  We
worked on him for over two hours to get him out.
We had hooked up caribbeaners.  He had fallen
down in a position of actually hunched over.  His
legs were down in a void.  His arms were free.
He was just like on his stomach, like laying on
top of a desk.
          We got ropes around him.  We could
barely budge him more than a few inches.  He was
a big man.  I would say Chief Prunty was probably
250, if I was to guess.  After a couple hours of
trying all these things, the void was just too
tight.
G. ROHAN 21
          Even if we had moved him off this
little area, there was no way we would have
gotten him through the doorway and through the
little void that we had made two floors above to
get 39 Engine out.
          My guys were starting to tell me they
were getting dizzy.  There was smoke coming
through this area.  Rescue was calling down to us
saying, "We're evacuating the area.  There's
another building coming down."  I had to make a
call, and it was a tough call.  I said we'll come
back.  We said a prayer on him, and we said we'll
come back and get him the next day.  And we left.
Unfortunately no one let me go back to get him,
but that's a whole other story.
          He was taken out on Friday by I don't
know who.  All I know is (inaudible).
          At that point we went up.  There was a
lot of people from my company around that were
there at the time helping.  They actually got the
lady, the one civilian, on the stokes while I was
down in the hole, got the lady on the stokes and
carried her out.
G. ROHAN 22
          When I came out of the hole, there was
a string of 100 guys leading us back towards West
Street over the west end of the crater.  You
couldn't head east.  There was gunfire going off.
There was parts of the buildings coming down.
You could hear little internal small collapses
going on in the buildings around us.
          We just walked towards West Street,
where I met again with Chief Ferran and Chief
Harten from the 10th Battalion, told them what we
found.  Unfortunately I felt terrible we couldn't
get Chief Prunty out, but we were all still
together.
          At that point we headed just over
towards the river.  This was now about 4:00, 4:30
in the afternoon.  About half an hour later
number seven came down.  I don't know how close
seven was to us.  I didn't even know where seven
was.  All I heard was seven now came down.
          That was it.  We really didn't do
anything else.  We looked to do other things, but
at that point it was almost like a hold-back,
hold-tight operation.  They wouldn't let anybody
else towards the crater.  It was too dangerous.
G. ROHAN 23
That was it.
     Q.   Thank you, Glen.
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time now is 1:27,
     and this concludes the interview.
File No. 9110405
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIRE MARSHAL STEVEN HEAVEY
 Interview Date:  December 28, 2001
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
                                                 2
          BATALLION CHIEF KING:  Today's date is
     December 28, 2001.  The time is 1136 hours
     and this is Battalion Chief Steven King,
     Safety Battalion FDNY.
          I'm conducting an interview with the
     following individual:  Fire Marshal Stephen
     Heavey, H-E-A-V-E-Y, from Brooklyn Base
     Squad 34.  The interview is regarding the
     events of September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Steve, you can start whenever you would
like.
     A.   Okay.  I was working the Monday overnight
shift, which would go until 9:30 in the morning, so
I was still in the office.  I actually had -- I was
supposed to work Tuesday but I had that off.  I was
working Monday night.  So I'm in the office.  It was
a very quiet night so there wasn't much going on.
     I was at my desk and next to my desk is the
scanner, which is set on Brooklyn, and they
announced the second alarm at the Trade Center.  I
forget the box for the particular tower and I turned
to one of the guys that was working, was in our Fire
Marshal class and he's a former 10 Truck member.  So
I said, "Hey, a second alarm at the Trade Center."
Heavey
                                                 3
     Then I switched the radio to Manhattan.  There
was some various communications.  The only thing I
remember is I guess it was the Engine 10 chauffeur
very excitedly asking the dispatcher to send every
ambulance you got.  The only thing I remember is I
believe the first division telling the dispatcher:
"Go to fall back, step three."
     By that time whatever TV channel we had on, I
think it was 7, broke in with it and you could see a
serious part of the Trade Center.  It was
unconfirmed reports of a plane crash.  And we were
just sort of all fixated on it.  It was pretty much
unclear what our role was.  I mean we assumed we
were going, but nothing official had come down.  We
were just sort of fixated by the TV.
     And then the second tower was hit.  We didn't
realize it.  I mean it just sort of lit up.  I
didn't know what it happened.  Pretty much at that
time we just made sure each guy had a radio.
Normally only one team carries a radio.  So we
divied up the radios and basically we went out
there.  I was in a car.  I was with supervisor
Grogan, because I was an extra guy.  So I was pretty
much assigned like the aide.  So the supervisor
Heavey
                                                 4
Brian Grogan was driving and I was in the passenger
seat.
     We had a brief discussion of how we were going
to get there.  I said, maybe we shouldn't go through
the Battery Tunnel in case there is a problem there.
But we decided that was the quickest way that we
were gonna get over there.  So that's what we did.
     We came through the tunnel, parked the car
right on the right.  I guess when you come out of
the tunnel there we just found a place to put the
car.  We didn't want to get it too close.  And we
both put all our clothing on, jumpsuit and turnout
gear and we started walking toward the Trade Center.
     Somewhere on West Street we saw Assistant Chief
Fire Marshal McCahey and he instructed us that the
marshals were going to stage in front of 1 World
Financial, which is just south of the pedestrian
overpass on West -- at Albany.  So that's what we
did.  We basically stood in front of that building.
And that was really as close as we could get without
being in danger of falling debris and victims, as it
were.
     You know, again, our role was unclear.  I
didn't know if we were gonna be given equipment to
Heavey
                                                 5
hump up or whether we were gonna be put to work in
some sort of security role.  It seemed to me a
little too early to worry about the investigative
angle.  It seemed like there was a lot of work to be
done.
     Shortly after we staged there I was standing
next to Fire Marshals Mazzarella, Coyle, Grogan was
there, but I think he stepped away to try to talk to
somebody or to see what was happening.  And I
remember Fire Marshal Mazzarella -- we were all
looking up and he turned to me and he said, "You
know, Steve, I think we're a little bit too close."
And at that point there was a loud noise and the
building from the upper floors started pushing like
the dust and debris and a shower of sparks and it
was clear that some sort of major structural failure
was in the works and, you know, our instinct was to
run.  The guys started running.
     They were all in their civilian clothes.  I was
the only one standing there in my full marshal gear,
including the leather boots and turnout coat and
helmet.  So I was a little slower than them.
Actually, I was a little stunned.  I didn't know if
I could outrun this thing because, you know, we
Heavey
                                                 6
didn't know if it was gonna fall on its axis or
pancake.
     So we ran south and made a turn, a right turn,
which would put us on Albany Street toward the river
and I figured this One World Financial building
seemed to be a rather tall building in its own right
and I sort of found a corner and sort of ducked into
it and knelt down and put my hands over my head on
my helmet, expecting to get hit with debris.
     I remember getting hit with like sand and
stuff.  No debris, just sand.  Then there was just a
blackened cloud of dust and soot.  It probably
lasted -- you know, I held my breath as long as I
could.  It probably lasted about two minutes.  It
was rather difficult to breathe there.  I was
worried for a moment that I might actually get
asphyxiated by this stuff.  But then it broke enough
at ground level.  There was maybe a 2 feet ceiling
you could start to see a little daylight.
     Those marshals, some of them had gone into the
parking garage and we were able to find most of
them.  I know at least John Coyle particularly had
run -- we found out later he was ahead of us and he
went west on Albany into one of these buildings.
Heavey
                                                 7
Hudson View West or something, according to the map
here, into the lobby just to get out of the dust.
     We regrouped -- we tried to find a rear
entrance out of there, but we couldn't figure it out
so we exited the we way came in and proceeded west
on Albany towards the esplanade.  Were gonna try to
regroup and determine what our next move would be.
At that point there was communication on our radio
that we should make our way south toward the
battery, all the marshals were gonna try to
rendezvous and make sure everybody was all right and
try to figure out what we were gonna do next.
     At that point I didn't know the extent of the
collapse.  I didn't realize it was a big pancake.  I
can't say I recall the other tower collapsing.  You
know, needless to say the whole area took on a very
sinister tone.  We didn't know what was coming next.
Suddenly every mailbox and city bus was a bomb.  You
know, every civilian was a terrorist and we made our
way down to the battery.
     As we went, more and more Fire Marshals, we
would see guys and there were civilians who were
asking what to do because I was in my gear.  I guess
I was recognizable.  Most of them were dazed.  There
Heavey
                                                 8
was one Hatzollah Ambulance that had a guy on a
stretcher.  I instructed them to remain at the
esplanade until the boats would come.  Boats
definitely came to the Battery.
     Clearly they were safer at the esplanade than
heading north.  We made our way south to the Battery
and ended up at that restaurant.  There were the two
Chief Fire Marshals.  The Chief and the Assistant
Chief ended up there.  We basically stood by for a
while and then we...
     Q.   Did you stay down there or later on did
you have other jobs?
     A.   We were instructed to go to the Manhattan
office, which we did.  We were given some personal
time and then we were --
     Q.   Where were you when Seven World Trade
Center --
     A.   Oh, we actually from there, we made our
way to the command post at the college.
     Q.   On Greenwich?
     A.   And I was actually standing on I believe
it's Greenwich Street when 7 collapsed and I
remember running about a block and ducking in.
Because after the experience with that dust I didn't
Heavey
                                                 9
know how far this cloud -- but it seemed to disburse
before it got to us.  They were apparently further
up north where it didn't affect us there.  We stayed
at the command post for a while.  We were given
something to eat.
     I remember seeing one of the Fire Marshals
there, Andy Difusco, bring in a man in custody, in
handcuffs, from some sort of looting incident.
     Q.   You didn't mention the north tower.
You're not clear about the north tower?  Do you know
where you were when it came down?
     A.   No.  I know we went west on Albany to the
esplanade, probably somewhere along the esplanade.
But I don't remember hearing it.  In other words, I
don't remember it as an event, because the dust was
constant.  Obviously that collapse had produced
more, but it didn't -- I don't recall another event.
     Q.   Is that pretty much it?
     A.   That's all I can remember.
          BATALLION CHIEF KING:  The time is 1147
     hours and the interview with Fire Marshal
     Heavey is concluded.
Heavey

FILE NO 9110406
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIRE MARSHAL JOHN COYLE
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 28 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

START
COYLE
CHIEF KING TODAYS DATE IS DECEMBER 28 2001 THE TIME IS 1101 HOURS THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF STEPHEN KING SAFETY BATTALION FDNY AM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
FIRE MARSHAL JOHN COYLE FROM BROOKLYN BASE SQUAD 34 THIS INTERVIEW IS REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
JOHN WHENEVER YOURE READY YOU CAN
THAT MORNING HAD WORKED THE NIGHT BEFORE WITH JOE MAZZARELLA NOT PARTICULARLY BUSY NIGHT REMEMBER WE WERE ALL PRETTY MUCH UP HAVING COFFEE DOWNSTAIRS AT THE BASE HERE STEVE HEAVEY WAS OVER NEAR THE DEPARTMENT RADIO WHICH WAS ON HE SUDDENLY TURNED AROUND AND SAID
PLANE HAS HIT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
EVERYBODY LOOKED AT HIM AND SAID WHAT ARE YOU
TALKING
ABOUT
THE TV WAS ON THERE WAS NOTHING ON
THE TV YET REMEMBER COUPLE OF US WENT OUTSIDE AND LOOKED AND YOU COULD SEE SMOKE COMING FROM ONE OF THE TOWERS YOU COULD JUST SEE IT IF YOU WENT AROUND THE CORNER OF THE

PARKING
COYLE
LOT
FEW SECONDS LATER MINUTE LATER OR
SO SUPERVISOR LYNN CAME OUT OF HIS OFFICE AND SAID EVERYBODY GOES SO EVERYBODY STARTED
GRABBING THEIR GEAR AND TAKING AS MUCH GEAR AS YOU COULD WE WANTED TO TAKE BASICALLY OUR
BUNKER GEAR AND HELMETS AND EVERYTHING WE COULD LAY OUR HANDS ON WENT TO MY CAR HAD
HALLIGAN GRABBED THAT WE THREW EVERYTHING INTO THE CARS
IT WAS MYSELF JOE MAZZARELLA STUCK WITH ME AND JOHN MURRAY WAS IN THE CAR ALSO
JUST AS WE WERE ABOUT TO PULL OUT THE SECOND PLANE HIT EVERYBODY WAS FLABBERGASTED
WE TOOK OFF WAS DRIVING ACTUALLY JUST
BEFORE WE TOOK OFF ASKED DAVE LYNN
SAID
HOWARE WE GOING TO GET THERE HE SAID
YOUVE GOT TO TAKE THE BATTERY TUNNEL THEYVE CLOSED EVERYTHING ELSE DOWN THATS FOR
EMERGENCY VEHICLES
ACTUALLY SAID TO HIM WHAT ABOUT
SECONDARY DEVICES THAT WAS THE ONLY THING REMEMBERED FROM TERRORIST TRAINING WAS WATCH FOR
SECONDARY DEVICES AND DONT GO RUSHING INTO

COYLE
SOMETHING THIS IS OBVIOUSLY AT THAT POINT TERRORIST ATTACK BECAUSE TWO PLANES HAD
HE SAID THATS THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN GO YOURE NOT GOING TO MAKE EVERYTHING ELSE IS CLOSED DOWN SO TOOK THIRD AVENUE WE REALLY WENT VERY FAST WE CUT IN AND OUT OF TRAFFIC SIREN GOING
WE GOT OVER HAMILTON AVENUE THEN TO
THE BATTERY TUNNEL IT LET US THROUGH JUST PUNCHED IT THROUGH THE TUNNEL BECAUSE
FIGURED DIDNT WANT THE THING COMING DOWN ON ME IN CASE THERE WAS SOME OTHER PROBLEM WITH
THAT
ACTUALLY LATER ON WAS TALKING TO SOME
OF THE GUYS COUPLE DAYS AFTER THAT AND SAID MUST HAVE BEEN GOING 75 THROUGH THAT TUNNEL
ACTUALLY MURRAY TURNED AROUND AND SAID NO WAS IN THE BACK SEAT WE WERE GOING 89
WE CAME OUT OF THE TUNNEL AND THERE
WERE RIGS EVERYWHERE THERE WAS DEBRIS FALLING FROM BUILDINGS BECAUSE THATS BASICALLY WHERE IT COMES OUT SO JUST WHEELED THE CAR AROUND AND PARKED GUESS IT MUST HAVE BEEN LIKE RECTOR
PLACE OR SOMEWHERE LIKE THAT JUST TO THE LEFT OF

COYLE
THE EXIT OF THE TUNNEL ACTUALLY IT TURNED OUT TO BE BLOCKED FROM THE WORLD TRADE CENTER THINK
BY BUILDING WHICH ALLOWED US TO DRIVE AWAY LATER
THEN WE GRABBED ALL OUR GEAR WE
POPPED THE TRUNK EVERYBODY GRABBED THEIR BAGS AND STARTED WALKING UP TOWARDS THE WORLD TRADE
CENTER COMPLEX GUESS IT WAS RICHARD MCCAHEY WAS WALKING AROUND THERE AND THEY SAID EVERYBODY
ASSEMBLE IN FRONT OF ONE WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER SO ALL OF US AT LEAST ALL THE
MARSHALS WHO CAME ON THAT SIDE OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER STARTED ASSEMBLING THERE WE WERE
PROBABLY 20 TO 40 FEET IN FRONT OF THE WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER BUILDING ON LITTLE RAISED
PLATFORM JUST TO THE SOUTH OF THE SOUTH
PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE
IT SEEMED TO US FROM THAT VANTAGE THAT
YOU WERE DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE SOUTH TOWER ALTHOUGH WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE MAP IT SEEMS TO BE OFF CENTER YOU COULD SEE LOTS OF DEBRIS FALLING FROM THE BUILDINGS WHAT LOOKS
LIKE RIBBONS ALMOST INITIALLY LITTLE FINE
PIECES OF METAL AND EVERYTHING BUT AS THEY

COYLE
FELL YOU REALIZED THESE WERE ENORMOUS CHUNKS OF MATERIAL COMING DOWN
THERE WERE LOT OF PEOPLE JUMPING
THAT WAS HORRIBLE WAS SHOOK UP HAVE NEVER BEEN THAT SHAKEN UP BY ANYTHING BEFORE WAS STANDING THERE AND COULDNT BELIEVE THAT YOU COULD SEE PEOPLE APPARENTLY HOLDING THEIR COATS OUT TO TRY AND FLY OR SOMETHING AND THEN
ADJUSTING TO THE LANDING IT WAS FUCKING AWFUL
REMEMBER JOE MAZZARELLA WHO WORK WITH LOT SAID JUST DONT LOOK AT IT
WE WERE ALL KIND OF SHAKEN FIREMEN ARE ALL MARCHING IN WE WERE TOLD STAND FAST DONT MOVE HAD MY HELMET ON MY RADIO WITH ME DONT THINK HAD ANY OTHER GEAR ON AT THAT POINT HAD MY HALLIGAN WITH ME IN CASE WE COULD DO SOMETHING
IT WAS LITTLE FOGGY AS TO WHAT ANYBODY COULD DO AT THAT POINT WASNT SURE
WHAT ANYBODY COULD DO IT DIDNT SEEM YOU COULD PUT THOSE FIRES OUT
THEN REMEMBER SEEING DR KELLY WALK BY REMEMBER CIVILIAN MIDDLE AGED COUPLE
BUSINESSMAN IT LOOKED LIKE BUT THEY SEEMED TO
ANYWAY

COYLE
BE TOURISTS OR SOMETHING STANDING NEAR US HE
WAS KIND OF SMILING AND POINTING AT THE THING AS IF IT WAS TOURIST ATTRACTION WITH HIS WIFE
BELIEVE HE STOOD THERE FOR FEW MINUTES
FINALLY HE SAID SOMETHING TO ME HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT WAS BUT STILL WITH THIS
KIND OF DOPEY GRIN ON HIS FACE SAID WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE HE WAS LIKE WELL THIS IS
SOMETHING ELSE OR WHATEVER SAID IF WERE YOU WOULD GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE OR WORDS
TO THAT EFFECT HE KIND OF LOOKED AT ME FUNNY AND THEN STARTED WALKING AWAY IT SEEMED
THERE WAS PHOTOGRAPHER THERE NOT FAR FROM US WITH LOT OF CAMERAS ON HIM
STEVE HEAVEY AND SUPERVISOR GROGAN HAD COME IN ANOTHER CAR RIGHT BEHIND US THEY WERE THERE TOO WE WERE ALL STANDING KIND OF TOGETHER GROGAN MIGHT HAVE BEEN SITTING AT THE MOMENT THIS
JOE MAZZARELLA WAS AT THAT MOMENT LOOKING SUDDENLY SAW HIS FACE LIKE LOOK OF COMPLETE TERROR AND HE JUST TURNED ON HIS HEEL AND TOOK OFF RUNNING STARTED RUNNING AFTER HIM AND
THING HAPPENED
REMEMBER GLANCING TO MY RIGHT AND
UP

COYLE
LOOKING OVER MY SHOULDER
THE TOWER WAS IT LOOKED TO ME
THOUGHT IT WAS EXPLODING ACTUALLY THATS WHAT THOUGHT FOR HOURS AFTERWARDS THAT IT HAD
EXPLODED OR THE PLANE OR THERE HAD BEEN SOME DEVICE ON THE PLANE THAT HAD EXPLODED BECAUSE
THE DEBRIS FROM THE TOWER HAD SHOT OUT FAR OVER
OUR HEADS IT WAS RAINING DOWN
RAN SOUTH AND THEN MADE RIGHT ONTO
ALBANY STREET WHICH WOULD BE RUNNING WEST TOWARDS THE WATER
COMPLETELY NO CHANCE
GLANCED
HEADING TOWARDS THE WATER WAS CONVINCED THAT WAS DEAD THAT HAD OF MAKING IT AWAY FROM THIS THING AS
UP THOUGHT THERES NO WAY CAN
OUTRUN THIS THING THERES ABSOLUTELY NO WAY BECAUSE IT SEEMED TO HAVE GOTTEN SO FAR BEYOND
THESE MASSIVE PIECES OF STUFF

COYLE
RAN DOWN THE STREET WITH PIECES ACTUALLY FALLING AROUND ME THE FASTEST IVE EVER RUN PIECES FELL AROUND ME THAT BIG CLOUD
THING ENVELOPED ME AS MADE THE TURN
GUESS LEFT
MADE LEFT ONTO END AVENUE THE FIRST
BUT IN MY MIND REMEMBER THINKING
TRYING TO GET AWAY
MIGHT BE FALLING OVER TRYING TO CALCULATE IN
THOUGHT THE BUILDING
COMPLETELY AND WAS
THAT FRACTION OF SECOND
OTHER THAN THINKING OF MY DAUGHTER AND THINGS LIKE THAT HOW FAR IS THAT BUILDING GOING TO FALL ITS GOING TO CRUSH THESE OTHER BUILDINGS
FIGURED IM JUST TRYING TO ZIGZAG MORE OR LESS AWAY
THE DEBRIS CLOUD ACTUALLY BLEW PAST ME ON ALBANY CAME OUT OF IT FOR SECOND ON END STREET AND THEN IT CAME DOWN IN FRONT OF ME TOO AND WAS CAUGHT IN IT KEPT RUNNING COULD JUST SEE ENOUGH TO RUN AND DOVE INTO THE LOBBY
OF BUILDING RESIDENTIAL BUILDING IT TURNED OUT
THERE WERE BUNCH OF CIVILIANS
IN

COYLE 10
THERE AND MORE PEOPLE STARTED COMING IN WENT BACK OUT AND STARTED PULLING PEOPLE IN
EVERYBODY WAS COVERED IN THIS DUST REALLY SUPER COVERED BUT NOBODY KNEW WHAT HAD HAPPENED
STILL THOUGHT IT HAD EXPLODED SOMETHING HAD EXPLODED
STARTED BANGING ON APARTMENT DOORS AND ACTUALLY FOUND WOMAN WHO WAS DOING
CONSTRUCTION IN HER HOUSE SHE HAD BUNCH OF DUST MASKS SHE GAVE ME ALL THE DUST MASKS AND
SHE GAVE ME BUNCH OF TOWELS SAID WET THESE TOWELS SHE GAVE ME AN ARM LOAD
LETS WET ALL THE TOWELS AND WELL HAND THEM OUT TO ALL THESE PEOPLE
KEPT DUST MASK FOR ME GAVE ONE TO COP THAT WAS THERE HANDED OUT ALL THESE
TOWELS AND THEN WENT BACK OUT LOOKING FOR PEOPLE PULLED GUY AND HIS DAUGHTER IN
THEN STARTED WALKING PRETTY MUCH AWAY FROM IT WITH EVERYBODY ELSE DOWN THE ESPLANADE
AT THAT POINT HAD NO IDEA WHAT HAD HAPPENED
IT SEEMED THAT THE THING HAD BLOWN UP DIDNT KNOW WHAT THIS DUST WAS WHETHER IT WAS PART OF THE BUILDING OR WHAT THE HECK HAD HAPPENED
SAID

COYLE 11
THERE WAS HUGE CROWD WALKING DOWN THE
ESPLANADE RAN INTO BRIAN GROGAN AFTER FEW MINUTES HE SEEMED ALMOST IN SHOCK WE DIDNT
REALLY SPEAK MUCH IT WAS SENSELESS CHATTER ON THE RADIO COULDNT MAKE HEADS NOR TAILS OF IT
GOT DOWN TO THE BATTERY THINK THATS WHERE ENDED UP KNOW WAS AT THAT
FORT AT SOME POINT THEN THE OTHER TOWER CAME DOWN WHEN THAT DUST CLOUD CAME AGAIN GAVE MY MASK TO LITTLE GIRL WHO WAS WITH HER FATHER
RAN SOUTH THEY WERE IN ONE OF THOSE LITTLE
NOOKS IN THE FORT
THEN KIND OF WANDERED BACK UP
ENDED UP UP NEAR THE EXIT FOR THE BATTERY TUNNEL
AGAIN TRYING TO GET BACK TOWARDS THE THING THEN HEARD ON THE RADIO ALL MARSHALS ARE TO
REPORT TO AND HAVE NO IDEA WHERE IT WAS OH NEAR THE JEWISH MEMORIAL THING
MADE MY WAY OVER THERE FOUND MAZZARELLA ALL THE GUYS WHO WERE WITH US WERE
THIS IS THE JEWISH THING THIS IS TERRORIST
WE STOOD THERE FOR FEW MINUTES AND
OKAY
EVENTUALLY SAID WE SHOULDNT EVEN BE HERE

COYLE 12
THING THIS IS DUMB PLACE TO HE STANDING
THIS THING MIGHT BLOW UP NO EVERYBODY THINK AT THAT POINT STILL THOUGHT THESE THINGS
WERE BLOWN UP SO WAS FULLY EXPECTING ANYTHING ELSE TO BLOW UP
THINK WE MENTIONED THAT OR SOMEBODY MENTIONED IT TO ONE OF THE SUPERVISORS AND THEN
THEY SAID OH YEAH OKAY THEN THEY TOOK US DOWN TO THE VERY END OF BATTERY PARK NEAR
RESTAURANT AND MADE US SIT THERE FOR WHAT SEEMED LIKE HOURS BUT IT WAS HOURS
EVENTUALLY WE WERE ALL WANTING TO GO
BACK UP AND HELP THEY WERE SAYING NO YOU HAVE TO STAY RIGHT HERE WELL MAINTAIN
CONTROL WHICH MADE NO SENSE FINALLY THEY SAID GO SEE IF YOUR CAR IS OKAY IF YOU CAN GET YOUR CAR OUT BRING IT BACK HERE
WE WENT BACK UP ME AND MURRAY AND MAZZARELLA FOUND THE CAR WHICH WAS COMPLETELY
COVERED IN RUBBLE BUT WASNT REALLY DAMAGED BADLY WE CLEARED THE WINDSHIELD OFF GOT IN IT
AND DROVE IT BACK TO THE BASE OF BATTERY PARK
THEN AT SOME POINT THEY SAID OKAY WE RE REASSEMBLING NOW UP ON WEST STREET

COYLE 13
GUESS ITS THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY THERE ITS
QUITE BIT UP THERE WAS SCHOOL AND THEY USED THAT AS AN ASSEMBLY POINT DONT KNOW THE
ADDRESS
MANHATTAN
THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN IT
WE DROVE BACK UP THERE PULLED IN OUR
CAR WAS PROMPTLY SURROUNDED BY RIGS WE WENT INTO THIS THING AND STOOD AROUND FOR MORE HOURS
WELL IT WAS HOURS WITH THE COPS DONT REMEMBER THAT MANY FIREMEN REMEMBER MARSHALS
COPS
RUMORS WERE SWEEPING THAT THE WASHINGTON MONUMENT WAS DOWN THE SEARS TOWER WAS DOWN ALL THE STUFF LIKE THAT
EVENTUALLY WE MADE OUR WAY BACK DONT REMEMBER HOW TO MANHATTAN BASE THEY
SAID GO GET YOUR CAR AGAIN EVENTUALLY WE WENT TO GET THE CAR WE WERE INSIDE THE
PERIMETER MORE OR LESS THATS WHERE THE CAR WAS OF WHERE SEVEN WORLD TRADE CENTER WAS
WE STARTED BACK GOING EAST GUESS IT IS DONT KNOW WHAT STREET IT IS LETS SEE SIX OR SEVENTH WE WERE PROBABLY HERE
COMMUNITY COLLEGE

MURRAY
COYLE 14
MURRAY IM GUESSING
WE STARTED GOING BACK EAST WE WERE
INSIDE THIS PERIMETER ALTHOUGH WE DIDNT REALIZE IT AT THE TIME WE SAW RIG WITH THE
COMPARTMENTS OPENED WE STOPPED THEY WERE ACTUALLY REVERSING KIND OF PULLED UP ALONG SIDE THEM MURRAY YELLED OUT THE WINDOW YOUR COMPARTMENTS ARE OPEN THE GUY YELLED SOMETHING BACK AT US
THEY KEPT BACKING UP
WE WENT FORWARD TO IMAGINE ITS THE
CORNER OF MURRAY AND WEST STREET JUST AS WE
WERE APPROACHING IT WE SAW PERSON RUN NORTH IN FRONT OF THE CAR AND THEN JOE MAZZARELLA WHO
WAS SITTING IN THE PASSENGER SEAT JUST STARTED
SCREAMING REVERSE REVERSE REVERSE REVERSE DIDNT EVEN LOOK JUST THREW IT IN REVERSE
AND PUNCHED IT WE FLEW BACKWARDS WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO SEE OUT THE REAR AND BUILDING SEVEN CAME
DOWN IN FRONT OF US
AT THAT POINT WE JUST PARKED THE CAR PULLED IT OVER AND WE WALKED BACK AND LEFT IT
THERE UNTIL MUCH LATER IN THE NIGHT WHEN THEY TOLD US TO FINALLY RETRIEVE IT

COYLE 15
WHEN YOU BACKED UP DID YOU GO ACROSS WEST STREET
IM GUESSING IF WE WERE ON MURRAY
WE PROBABLY APPROACHED WEST WHATEVER THIS IS HERE BECAUSE IT CAME DOWN BASICALLY LIKE THIS
RIGHT IN FRONT OF US JUST REVERSED IT BACK TO THE STREET HERE
AND DEBRIS WENT PAST MURRAY STREET
WOULD YOU SAY
OH YEAH IT WAS LIKE ANOTHER ONE OF
THOSE GIANT CLOUDS IT SHOT THROUGH HERE DIDNT EVEN KNOW WHAT HAPPENED AT THAT POINT
WHILE WAS DOWN AT BATTERY PARK
FINALLY GOT THROUGH ON MY PHONE TO MY FATHER AND SAID IM ALIVE JUST WANTED TO TELL YOU GO TO CHURCH IM ALIVE JUST SO NARROWLY ESCAPED THIS THING HE SAID WHERE WERE YOU YOU WERE THERE SAID YEAH WAS RIGHT THERE WHEN IT BLEW UP HE SAID YOU WERE THERE WHEN THE PLANES HIT SAID NO WAS THERE WHEN IT EXPLODED THE BUILDING EXPLODED HE SAID YOU MEAN WHEN IT FELL DOWN SAID NO WHEN IT
EXPLODED
STILL DIDNT REALIZED WHAT HAD

COYLE 16
HAPPENED TOTALLY THOUGHT IT HAD HEEN BLOWN
UP THATS JUST THE PERSPECTIVE OF LOOKING UP AT IT IT SEEMED TO HAVE EXPLODED OUT BUT THAT
GUESS WAS THE FORCE OF THE UPPER STORIES
COLLAPSING
DOWN
THATS REALLY IT AFTER THAT THEN THEY
HAD US KIND OF COMPILING LISTS OF MISSING MEMBERS AND THEN GOING TO THE VARIOUS STATIONS AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO HAD BEEN WORKING AND WHO HAD JUMPED ON THE RIG AND COMPILING ALL THESE LISTS
THEN WE RETURNED BACK TO MANHATTAN BASE AFTER THAT WE JUST STAYED HERE FOR ABOUT
THREE DAYS AT THE BASE SLEPT ON THE FLOOR IN THE WEIGHT ROOM THEN THEY HAD US UP THAT
MORNING
OKAY JOHN THATS GOOD
CHIEF KING THE TIME IS 1119 HOURS AND THE INTERVIEW WITH FIRE MARSHAL JOHN COYLE IS CONCLUDED
File No. 9110407
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIRE MARSHAL JOHN MURRAY
   Interview Date:  December 28, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
J. MURRAY
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KING:  Today's date is
     December 28, 2001.  The time is 1007 hours.  This
     is Battalion Chief Stephen King, Safety Battalion,
     FDNY.  I'm conducting an interview with the
     following individual, Fire Marshal John Murray
     from Brooklyn base.
     Q.   This interview is concerning the events of
September 11, 2001 and John, you can start whenever you
want.
     A.   You just want me to state everything?
     Q.   Start from the beginning and tell us your
story, you know, how you got the call, where you were,
what you did?
     A.   We were here.
     Q.   Brooklyn base, right?
     A.   Yes, here in the base.  I was working the
night before.  We were sitting downstairs and whatever
time that was, 8 o'clock or so.  We were sitting there
with the TV on and we were talking.  We had the scanner
on.  We heard on the scanner some voice from 10 Truck
or 10 Engine, said start rolling all available
ambulances, somebody intentionally put a plane into the
World Trade Center.  We turned on the news Channel 1
and we see that it's on fire.  You look at the thing
J. MURRAY
3
and the building is this big and the fire is this big,
so we figured maybe it was somebody accidentally flew
one of those little single pilot planes into the thing
and, you know, no big deal.  You knew it was going to
be a big deal and you knew we were going to go.  So we
all got -- we were all getting ready to go.  The boss
that's working the night tour goes this is going to be
a long drawn out day.  Anybody got to take a shit,
anybody got to do anything, do it right now.  Get
ready, get everything you need because you are going to
be there all day long.  Okay, so some guys go take a
shit, get ready, we all get our shit together.  We are
getting ready to go out the door.  The TV is still on.
We see the second tower explode.  There was nothing, at
least those first few minutes, there was nothing about
another plane.  It was just that the thing exploded, so
now we thought that it was a bomb.
          We jump in the car, we take off, we shoot
over there and we were shitting in our pants driving
over there because now we figured it was a bomb.  We
didn't think it was another plane.  We went through
that, they were closing down the tunnel, we went
through that tunnel.  It was 89 miles an hour or 98
miles an hour, I forget what the hell it was.  We were
J. MURRAY
4
flying.  Get out of the tunnel as fast as possible, we
figured it sounds like a good thing to blow up, the
tunnel.
          We get there, we pull up on West Street and
you know we see this lines of cars, lines of trucks.
So we couldn't really go too far, so we figured we
would just pull over right there.  I don't know what
street that was.  It was just outside the tunnel.  Down
here somewhere.  On the water side of West Street.  We
popped the trunk, we get our gear, we carry our bunker
gear and stuff in a bag.  We get our gear, start
walking, there is like a bike path there on West
Street.  So we start walking up the bike path and the
whole time you are hearing, boom boom boom, you know,
more fucking bombs, what the hell is this.  They kind
of sounded like block busters or something.  We were
walking and I'm like what the fuck is going on.  More
bombs going off?  As we are walking, we see a detective
looking, everybody is looking up and we are kind of
looking forward walking, you know, heads up guys, we
got jumpers.  That's when I look up and see all these
people.
          Anyway, we were supposed to meet up with the
Marshals at a command post set up on West and Liberty
J. MURRAY
5
which is where it was, which actually it wasn't.
Looking afterwards it was maybe 10 feet south of that
overpass, which is south of Liberty.
     Q.   Between Cedar and Liberty?
     A.   Yes.  That's basically where we were.  We
were in front of the World Financial Center.  Of course
now we are sitting, you know, one of the things, put a
helmet on.  So we put our helmets on, some of the other
guys went back to get their helmets and we are there
looking up at the towers and we were no longer even
focusing on the south tower, because the fire seemed to
be darkening down.  But there was still 10 floors of
fire roaring in the north tower.  We are all looking at
this thing saying what the fuck are we doing here.
          Looking up at the World Financial Center and
saying this is a stupid place to be standing, because
if they hit the World Trade Center, why not blow up the
World Financial Center.  At some point, actually I
think we were -- I don't know where we were, we were
either -- we were right at the corner there, I think,
of Albany Street when we were still walking.  Some guy
was running around with a radio.  They hit the
Pentagon.  They hit the Pentagon.  Like I said, now we
are standing on World Financial Center saying this is a
J. MURRAY
6
fucked up place to be.
          We kind of migrate back down to the street
and we were standing there because that's where the
command post is.  Where the Assistant Chief Fire
Marshal was in charge.  He really didn't have anything
specific for us to do.  We were just kind of milling
around like I said, staring up.  My supervisor for the
night tour, he was kind of in shock.  What's the
matter.  His brother worked in the north tower.  That's
really fucked up.  Like I said, we were standing there
watching the north tower and not even paying attention
to the south tower.
          Then you look up and it's like holy shit, the
building didn't come down, it shot straight out over
our heads, like straight across West Street.  Holy
shit, there is no fucking way we are going to out run
this thing.  Everybody, asses and elbows, we ran south
on West Street, turned the corner on Albany Street and
--
     Q.   Towards the water?
     A.   Towards the water, yes.  I ran into
somebody.  We both went down.  The person got up and
kept going.  By this time all the shit was hitting the
ground.  I was like maybe three or four cars up from
J. MURRAY
7
the corner on Albany Street.  I crawled underneath the
car.  It was a Caprice, blue Caprice, like ours.  I
crawled underneath the front bumper.  All the shit
starts coming down.  The fucking car keeps whacking me
on the back and the shit is hitting me.
          When the whole thing came down and everything
went black, it got real hot.  I felt something digging
me in the side.  It felt like it was burning me.  This
is fucked up.  I'm going to fucking burn to death,
sitting here under this car.  First I thought I was
going to be crushed under the car.  Every time it hit
me, it was like everything kind of quieted down.  Okay,
I wasn't crushed, that's one good thing.  I started
feeling around, I'm not burning, so that's another good
thing.  It was completely black.
          I started reaching around, you know, laying
on my face, I started reaching around out from under
the car, trying to feel things.  It was like nothing on
top of me.  It was like, you know, something must have
fallen down, something big must have fallen down over
me on the car.  I'm underneath something because it's
completely black.  So I start sliding out from under
the car, reaching out further and further and then
reaching up above my head.  There is nothing above my
J. MURRAY
8
head.  So I stand up, I'm reaching, still reaching, in
all directions.  Now I'm standing up like in front of
the car, reaching all around, saying oh, fuck, whatever
this is it's big.  It must be like half the building
fell down.  There is this big void over.  I reached
around and there is nothing.  So then I start calling
out, anybody out there, anybody.  Yes, I'm over here.
Somebody is over here, okay.  You okay, yes, I'm fine.
How -- anybody else, yes, yes, you okay, yes, I'm
fine.  So now I'm figuring that thing was, fuck, that
thing was banging me on the back and on the head.
Maybe I'm blind.  Nothing.  I didn't see anything.
          Then finally it starts lightening up.  It
starts getting grayer and grayer and I start walking
around, calling to people, everybody, yes, everybody
okay.  At this point, I turned back around and I go
back.  Once it started getting gray, I went back to the
point where we were standing to make sure that
everybody was out of there.  There was a trailer inside
of a fence, in front of 1 World Financial.  Like on the
corner of Albany and West.  That thing was on fire.
There was just bits and pieces.  There was the steel
that was (inaudible).  All sorts of shit right there.
You know, little things were on fire here and there.
J. MURRAY
9
But the whole row, up and down West Street, every car,
every rig was on fire.  I still couldn't see,
everything was still gray.  I could only see like two
feet in front of me, but I could see the glow for about
two blocks of everything that was still there.
          At this point I go back to the spot where I'm
standing and I start digging around, I find my bag with
my bunker gear in it.  I am looking around.  There was
nobody there.  No people so I figured good, everybody
got out of there.  I started heading back to where I
ran to because I knew there were people there.  And I'm
back and forth, you know, people, anybody see this
company, anybody see this company.  No.  I don't know.
There was nobody back that way anyway.
          So I ran into the SIU supervisor in Queens,
Jack McCauley.  He was one of our instructors in
school, so I come across him.  He's okay.  Okay.  I go
back towards the water, found an ambulance.  I got some
gauze wrapped around my face, went back.  I found
another supervisor from here.  J.D. Lynn and a guy, a
photo guy, another Marshal.  They were like, 1 World
Financial Center I guess has a parking garage there.
They were tucked in there.  Asking anybody see anybody,
is everybody okay.  Nobody knew anything, just us 4
J. MURRAY
10
people that we saw.
          I'm starting to go back again, like back
towards like West Street kind of thing.  Then the other
guy Jack saying come on, let's go over by the water.
Let's see what we can do there.  So we all go,
gathering people as we are going, come on, everybody go
towards the water.  We went back, grabbed a couple of
people, people with broken legs, dragging them back
towards the water.  There was police boats, tug boats,
all sorts of boats, like right there, at the end of
Albany Street.  We were just -- anybody hurt, anybody
injured, just tossing them over, over the rails on to
the boats.
          At that point, those are the only people that
I saw, these 3 other guys, other than a couple of
firemen and the Chief was one of the guys yelling for
companies on Albany Street.
     Q.   Do you know who the Chief was?
     A.   No.  Actually I did see, I came across a
doctor on Albany when I went to go get the gauze.  I
came across a doctor.  I saw Dr. Kelly and her
entourage and when we were on West Street, Dr. Kelly
was there with us.  She was looking for some sort of
command post that was supposed to be in the World
J. MURRAY
11
Financial Center or something.  She had gone in there,
she came out, she went into another door and she was
like right around there with us and the last time I saw
her, she was heading back north on West Street.  That
was just about the time that the tower came down.  She
was wearing a dress then and when I saw her on Albany,
she was wearing like a T-shirt or something and she
didn't have her dress on.
          So those guys were coming this way.  I saw a
doctor who was wandering around.  You know, everybody
okay.  We ended up, we were over there, putting people
on the --
     Q.   By the water down at the end of Albany
Street?
     A.   Yes, putting people on the boats.
     Q.   Is the north tower still up?
     A.   Yes, the north tower was still up.  It was
about that time that you hear that same rumble, oh,
fuck, it's happening again, now telling everybody run
down, down toward -- actually before that we were
telling people just to go down.
Q. South?
     A.   Yes, south on that promenade there.  Head
down that way, just everybody go.  Now you hear that
J. MURRAY
12
big jet airplane going again.  Fuck.  Everybody starts
running and this time, like I said, it was coming down
when we were right there by the water, ran down maybe
50 feet or something.  There was park benches, ducked
under a park bench and this time it was just dust.  It
still went black.  There was no debris falling.  We
were far enough away.
     Q.   (inaudible) coming up the water, you know?
     A.   Yes, well, not really.  When the dust came
down, but it definitely cleared up by the water faster
than it did in the streets.  At this point, I had a
radio that I had lent to Jack.  We were back and forth,
like I was sticking with him.  We got -- we were back
and forth calling on the radio for people.  At this
point, McCahey calls.  Everybody meet at West Street by
the entrance to the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel.  Everybody
meet there.  So now we are -- I should say we are here
so we went down south maybe a block or two from Albany
on the promenade.  So we started heading back and we
were wandering back and forth because there is like one
street doesn't go through and then another street there
was fences there.
          We ended up, we came back, we came pretty
close to Albany.  There had to be another street.  I
J. MURRAY
13
don't know where it is, but there was one street south
of Albany I think that we finally made it to West
Street.  Now we are heading down West Street and we
come to the point where we were all supposed to meet up
and it's just me and him.  There's nobody else here.
          We are calling back and forth on the radio;
we are here.  Where are you.  Oh, we are here.  You are
not here.  Well, we are on our way there, where are
you, we are standing there, there is two of us standing
there, you said this is where you are and everybody is
supposed to meet.  So everybody starts gathering
together and they say this is no good.  We are still in
the dust cloud.  So they say go down West Street and
meet at the top of the Battery Park.
          So at this point that's where I met the other
guy from SIU from the Bronx, Delancy.  He had a woman
in the car, he had his car there and he had a woman in
it.  A woman and a baby.  I get in the car with him,
see how she is doing.  We started driving towards the
top of Battery Park.  She is kind of screaming and
crying.  She had the baby and her other daughter and
her mother were with her and they got separated.  We
get to the top of Battery Park, whatever that cross
street is.  There are hundreds of people walking past.
J. MURRAY
14
She finds her mother and her daughter there.  She goes
on her way, everybody ends up going back around and
they end up going down the tip of Battery Park and
getting on boats and taking people everywhere.
          The next thing we are here like regrouping,
kind of waiting for other guys to come.  We are just
telling everybody start walking across the Brooklyn
Bridge.
          The rest of the day was kind of all screwed
up like that.  Hurry up and wait, do nothing.  Later on
we basically have everybody, except there were still
some guys up, I don't know where they were, but we were
trying to get everybody together.  One of the things is
go get your cars.  We go back, we get our car.  We
bring it back down to Battery Park, shit flying
everywhere.
          We get there and now we are all going to meet
here at this Manhattan Community College.  There is a
command center being set up there.  Everybody go
there.  We go back up that way.
     Q.   How much later was this now would you say, do
you have any idea of time?
     A.   It was much later.
     Q.   Couple of hours?
J. MURRAY
15
     A.   Yes, I had no idea.  I have no concept of
time from that day.  We drive up there.  We parked the
car on one of these streets up here.  We are on West
Street.  We parked on West Street.  So we go to the
command post and they have some shit.  They got some
letter bomb or something they thought they had.  Things
going on back and forth.  But upstairs, they had food
and stuff.  We go upstairs.  They were assigning what
duties different people would do.  You go here, you go
there.  They were basically trying to keep people away
from trying to go back to the towers and digging, which
everybody wanted to do but they didn't want you doing.
          We go there, we get something to eat, we go
downstairs and we get told to go to Manhattan base,
which is on Lafayette and Houston Street.  So we go get
our car, start heading cross town, can't be this
street.  It has to be this street here, when building 7
collapsed.  So it came down, we are going cross town.
There was a rig pulled around the corner and one of its
compartment doors was open.  We tell the guy, we
stopped on, I guess it was like right here somewhere.
     Q.   Warren Street.
     A.   Yes, it's got to be like right here.  Because
we backed straight across.  We tell the guy, look, your
J. MURRAY
16
compartment door is open.  I don't know.  It's not my
rig, some guy, one of the Chiefs just told me to move
it.  There was 3 guys in the car, myself, Tom Doyle,
and Joe Mazzarella.  He is sitting in the back and we
are telling the guy about his compartment door.  Back
up, back up, back up, whacking us in the back of the
head.  You can see the building, you can see it over,
there was like a parking lot in the little building.
You see the building coming down.  Oh fuck.  We
reversed and shot straight across West Street.  Good
thing there was nobody standing behind us because they
would have got run over, parked the car and walked to
Manhattan base.
Q. Hard day.
     A.   We get there and we get our assignment to go
-- we had the old Fifth Division, you know they had
the old charts.  The old Fifth Division to go to every
fire house and gather the list of names of the day tour
and the night tour.  So we were going and it was like 5
o'clock in the morning before we were done with that.
Then the rest of the week was the same thing.
          BATTALION CHIEF KING:  Okay.  The time is
     1033 hours, the interview with Fire Marshal John
     Murray is completed.
File No. 9110408
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
          FIREMAN JOHN WANSLEY
   Interview Date:  December 29, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
J. WANSLEY
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  Today is December 29,
2001.  Time is 1240 p.m. This is Battalion Chief Ronald
Kemly of the Fire Department of the City of New York.
I'm conducting an interview with John Wansley, Fireman
first of the City of New York assigned to Engine 45.
He was detailed to Ladder 58 on September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Fireman Wansley please tell me what happened
to you regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
     A.   Well, we relocated down at 20 truck.  We were
there maybe 10, 15 minutes.  The first building
collapsed.  About 10 minutes after that, they gave us a
box to respond down there for a woman trapped in a
building.  In the meantime there was a lot of people
who were coming in.  There was, you know, a total
recall.  We were putting extra gear on the rig.  We
responded down there.  We got down there.  I guess it
was probably Cedar and Broadway.  We took two steps off
the rig and we just heard loud noise and figured it was
the second building coming down and we ran around the
rig, just dove behind the rig.  The dust came and all
of a sudden it was just pitch black and smoke.  I
thought I had seen some fire coming.  I thought that
was the next thing.  I got up, I walked down the block
about halfway down one of the blocks away from the
J. WANSLEY
3
buildings, I turned around, looked, I seen there was no
fire there.  I turned around.  I walked back to where
the rig was.
          We all regrouped.  We grabbed some tools,
saws, hooks and everything else.  We made our way and
ended up over on West Street on the other side.  When
we got over there, one of the Chiefs had told to us to
go look for 65 Engine.  That's pretty much what we
did.  We started climbing up through the pile and
looking for 65 Engine and anything else you could
find.  We just ended up somehow stretching lines.  We
went up into the pit up there with a line.
          We just operated for a few hours, then we all
regrouped back over where our rig was and I ended up in
the hospital that day because I couldn't see no more.
I had to go get my eyes cleaned out.  That was pretty
much it.
     Q.   Okay.  When you said you saw the recall was
in, do you know the people that got on your rig when
you responded, were they from 20 truck?
     A.   I have no idea.  There was just a lot of
people coming in.  I think there was a Chief from that
quarters.  I think maybe a squad was even in there, so
it was a lot of people coming in.
J. WANSLEY
4
     Q.   When you say your rig was at Liberty and
Broadway?
     A.   I think that's where it was.
     Q.   You walked down the street towards Cedar?
     A.   When?
     Q.   When you first responded.
     A.   We just stepped off the rig and as soon as we
got off the rig the building came down.  We weren't
standing in the street two seconds as the building came
down.
     Q.   Did you see any other companies parked when
you pulled up?
A. No.
     Q.   You said the Chief.  Do you happen to
remember what Battalion or anybody that said to go look
for 65?  Did they indicate where they thought 65 was,
any location?
     A.   No.
     Q.   They just said that way?
     A.   I'm not even sure if it was a Chief who said
it.  Somebody had said go look for 65, Engine 65.  We
just started climbing over through the pile.  Never
found it either.
     Q.   Did you see any other companies doing
J. WANSLEY
5
basically what you were doing, do you have any idea
what your location was at that point?
     A.   Yes, I know exactly we were where.  We were
actually where the south bridge comes across.  Across
--
     Q.   Liberty and West?
     A.   Yes, I guess that would be.  It was
definitely West Street.  90 West Street is right there
on the corner.  Right there where one bridge was still
up.  That's where we went ended up coming that block
right there.  When we got there, somebody said go look
for 65 Engine.  I don't know who it was.  Maybe it was
just -- you know what, at first we ended up staging
where all the ambulances were for a few minutes there.
Then we ended up going right over right to where the
bridge was.  I don't know who it was.  It was just a
boss that told me we got to go find 65 Engine.  See if
we can find 65 Engine.
     Q.   Were there any other companies with you?
     A.   Yes, there was other companies operating in
the area.
     Q.   But you don't know who they were?
     A.   Not assigned with us, no.
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  Is there anything
J. WANSLEY
6
else you can remember?  If not, the interview is
over.  Thanks.
File No. 9110409
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER JAMES WALLACE
   Interview Date:  December 29, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
J. WALLACE 2
          CHIEF KEMLY:  Today's date is December
     29th, 2001.  The time is 12:50 p.m.   This
     is Battalion Chief Ronald Kemly of the Fire
     Department of the City of New York.  I am
     conducting an interview with the following
     individual, Firefighter James Wallace of
     Ladder 58 of the Fire Department of the City
     of New York, at the quarters of Engine 45,
     Ladder 58 in the office of Battalion 18,
     regarding the events of September 11th,
     2001.
     Q.   Firefighter Wallace, tell me what
happened to you on September 11th.
     A.   Okay.  We got relocated to Ladder 20.
We were there maybe ten minutes.  The first
building had fallen down, collapsed.  We got a
report of a lady trapped in a building on Cedar
Street.  We responded.  We went down Broadway.
We got to Liberty, and we stopped the rig.  As
soon as we stopped the rig, we got off, it wasn't
even a second, the second building fell down.
          At that time we got hit with a heavy
cloud of smoke and debris, and we just ran to the
other side of the rig, finally got our face
J. WALLACE 3
pieces on.  It took like five minutes.  We
regrouped.  It started to lift a little bit.  We
said we've got to go in there and see if we can
get anybody out.
          We took forcible entry tools, saws,
everything, and we got in there.  We couldn't get
past Liberty and Cedar, so we went around the
back to West Street.  When we got to West Street,
we were there a little bit, met up with some
other companies.  We went in underneath the
walkway, catwalk, whatever you want to call it.
          There were rigs everywhere, a rescue
rig.  As I was saying, people trapped.  We heard
maydays.  We were just climbing over debris,
under debris.  Cars on fire, ambulances on fire,
upside-down.  Everything is all over the place.
Crawled around, looked, looked, looked.  We
didn't come up with anything.
          Rescue was in the middle of the pile at
the time.  They got jammed up.  They needed a
line.  We stretched a line with 14 Engine.  We
operated with Rescue 3.  We operated with them
for a little while.  We still didn't come out
with anybody.
J. WALLACE 4
          After that as time went on, we just
kept searching.  They were saying building seven
was going to collapse, so we regrouped and went
back to our rig.  We went to building four or
three; I don't know.  We were going to set up our
tower ladder there.  They said no good because
building seven is coming down.
          We waited for building seven to come
down.  Then we went around the corner with our
tower ladder, set that up and shot water on it
until about 12:30 at night.  We got relief
finally.  Then we went to the hospital, got our
eyes washed out.
          That's about it.
     Q.   When you said you heard any maydays,
any identifying names or any companies that you
could recognize from the maydays?
     A.   No.
     Q.   You just heard a lot of maydays; right?
     A.   Right.
     Q.   You said you were operating with other
companies.  Any idea who they were?
     A.   Like I said, 14 Engine we stretched the
line with.  Rescue.
J. WALLACE 5
     Q.   All right.  14 Engine, they were what,
Liberty and West by that south walkway?
     A.   It was like maybe an hour into the
operation when rescue went into the middle of the
pile.  They needed a line, so we helped them.
     Q.   I'm just saying 14, I'm trying to find
out where you hooked up with them.  Any idea?
     A.   When rescue said they needed a line, 14
Engine, the chief assigned us to work with them
and that was it.
     Q.   Okay.  If you can't remember anything
else or if you have anything else to add.
     A.   If I think of it, I'll let you know.
     Q.   Was it a battalion chief?
     A.   Yeah.  He just got promoted too.  He
was the guy that got the engine -- who was that
guy?  When he got the medal?
          MALE VOICE:  I don't know.  Oh, Warner.
     A.   Warner.
     Q.   Oh, Ron Warner?
     A.   Warner.
     Q.   Battalion Chief Warner told you to
stretch the line?
     A.   Yes.
</XMP></BODY></HTML>
J. WALLACE 6
     Q.   That was near building three?
     A.   No.  That was by the motel.
     Q.   By the motel?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   And that's --
     A.   Liberty and West.
     Q.   Liberty and West.
     A.   Right underneath the catwalk.
     Q.   Okay.  Anything else that you can think
of?
     A.   That's it.
          CHIEF KEMLY:  Okay.  Thank you very
     much your time.
File No. 9110410
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER MARK WESSELDINE
   Interview Date:  December 29, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
M. WESSELDINE
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  Today is December 29,
     2001.  The time is 13 hundred hours.  This is
     Battalion Chief Ronald Kemly of the Fire
     Department of the City of New York.  I'm
     conducting an interview with Firefighter first
     grade Mark Wesseldine of Ladder 58 of the Fire
     Department of the City of New York.  The interview
     is taking place in the office of Battalion 18 in
     Ladder 58's quarters, regarding the events of
     September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Firefighter Wesseldine, please tell me what
happened to you on September 11, 2001.
     A.   I was detailed to the rock for the day tour
to teach educational day.  Basically we didn't get the
program started.  Once the first plane hit we basically
went into the office to watch what was going on.  When
the second plane hit, Chief Santangelo told us to shut
everything down and send everybody back to their own
quarters and wait for an assignment.  With that, he
told our members, everybody at the rock to start
getting their gear and assemble, and that they were
going to get a bus to bring us to the site.
          With that, everybody assigned to the rock has
gear there.  I didn't have any gear so I just got in my
M. WESSELDINE
3
truck and drove downtown on my own.  I was fortunate
enough I had a red light behind my seat from when I
used to be a volunteer Fire Chief, so the Police
Department waved us right in.  I went down and parked
 -- I was parked on Canal and Church Street.  I was
parked on the sidewalk.  I was basically running up
Canal Street, figuring that I could just basically
carry bottles, doing something.  I didn't need gear to
carry bottles up and downstairs.  I was somewhere, I
was somewhere in the vicinity of Park, close to Park,
somewhere right around there.  There was a lot of
people coming out.  I mean just mass people just
leaving, as would be.
          I saw rigs, I don't recall any numbers, but
they were just basically parked there on the way in in
different locations.  Next thing you know, you could
hear the noise.  You could hear the wind blowing and
then the dust came and once the dust came that was it.
I was asking the people that were running what was
happening, they said the building just came down.  I
didn't think the building came down but that's what it
was.  It was the first building.  This was, I don't
know, 10 o'clock, somewhere around there, because it
took a while to get down there.  Then it was just, you
M. WESSELDINE
4
couldn't see nothing.  You couldn't breathe.  You
couldn't do nothing.  I said well I'm useless here
now.  I had to wait a little while for the dust to
settle, then I went back, got my truck, drove up here
and at that time, there was I guess a total recall so
all the off duty guys were just starting to get back
in.
          Captain Principio was here.  They just
assembled us.  We got our gear together, got what tools
and what not together and we went to the Division and
then we took a bus back down there.  We didn't operate
for a couple of hours later after that.  All we did was
go in and they told us to -- with the company they told
us to go in and find a rescue collapse rig, see if it
was serviceable.  We went in and found that.  We
reported back and then they had us do victim tracking.
          That was basically until later on in the
day.  We didn't do anything until later on in the day.
I didn't report in to anybody because I never actually
got to the site, because you couldn't see where you
were going at that point.
     Q.   When you went to the rescue collapse rig, do
you know where it was located?
     A.   It was on West Street, but I don't know the
M. WESSELDINE
5
corner street.  Because we actually went in, went
through a couple of buildings around back and came out
on the other side.  That's where we found it.  Who was
there?  Nick was with the rig.  I can't think of his
last name last name right now.  Nick Giordano was with
the rig already from Rescue 3.  So when we came back we
had told the command post that there was a guy from
Rescue 3 member with a rig, it couldn't have been moved
at that point, but there was somebody with the rig and
it was intact.  I mean it was damaged but it was
intact.
     Q.   Anything else you can remember?
     A.   Nothing I don't think of any importance on
the initial one.  Like I said, by the time we got in
there it was hours later and there was plenty other
guys in there already doing work.  All we did basically
was dig and check and search ambulances in that
courtyard when we got there later on that night.
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  If you have anything
     further, otherwise the interview is over.  Thank
     you for your time.
File No. 9110411
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
     FIREFIGHTER RICARDO RODRIGUEZ
   Interview Date:  December 29, 2001
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
R. RODRIGUEZ
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  Today is December 29,
     2001.  The time is 1320 hours.  This is Battalion
     Chief Ronald Kemly of the Fire Department of the
     City of New York.  I'm conducting an interview
     with Firefighter first grade Ricardo Rodriguez of
     Ladder 58 of the City of New York Fire
     Department.  The interview is taking place in the
     quarters of Ladder 58 in Battalion 18's office
     regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Fireman Rodriguez could you tell me what
happened to you on September 11?
     A.   All right.  We initially got the call here to
respond and relocate over to quarters of Ladder 20.  We
arrived there.  We were there probably a half an hour
or so.  Second plane hit.  Tower came down, second
fifth alarm was given.  We were told to respond down to
respond down to I believe somewhere around Church
Avenue and -- Church Street.  Building somewhere down
there.  There was a report of a woman trapped.  We were
slightly delayed because members that had come back
from Ladder 20 were piling on to the rig with their
equipment.  We had about 15 guys strapped on to the
outside of the rig.  We headed down there.  We went
down -- we worked our way to West Broadway.  Headed
R. RODRIGUEZ
3
straight down West Broadway.  We got to West Broadway
and Liberty.  That's where we stopped the rig,
Lieutenant Scotto decided it was safer to just stop the
rig and not get any closer than that, which I don't
think we could have, because there were girders in the
street going down Liberty.
          As soon as we stopped the rigs, guys got off
the rig.  I was probably the last one.  I was sitting
behind the chauffeur.  I was probably the last one
getting off the rig.  When I got off the rig I could
see the chauffeur -- I heard the chauffeur yell
something.  He was running up Liberty Street.  I
turned, I could hear a rumble, I turned and all I saw
was this huge black cloud, 50 story black cloud coming
at us.  Only thing I could think of was to duck.  It
hit us.  We were choking for a while till I was able to
clear my mask and put it on.  We had 3 civilians near
us that were choking.  We tried to give them air as
well.
          Once it cleared some, guys came back -- some
of the guys that ran -- there was a man in one of the
buildings that opened the lobby door and yelled to the
guys to run in.  They went there.  Well, as they got
back together we got everyone -- make sure everyone was
R. RODRIGUEZ
4
safe, got together, we grabbed every tool we had and we
proceeded down Liberty Street.  We went down Liberty
Street, as far as 10-10's quarters.  Because of the
debris field we couldn't go any further than that.  We
went through their quarters, came out the back of their
quarters, headed south about another block or so and
made our way over to West Street.
          At that point I would say it was like
midnight all through this time.  By the time we hit
West Street, we started working our way up West Street
towards the towers.  That's when it started to clear
and you started to see a little bit of daylight.
          We got to that point there and we were
probably under the walkway.  At that point we just went
into the pile.  There was a Chief up there giving out
orders, whatever, but the radio was a mess, with all
the Maydays and everything else.  The only person I
could recognize up there up on the pile was Ralph Tiso,
Captain Tiso from rescue.  He was searching around up
there and found, I think it was some members trapped on
the other side of the other pile.  At that point the
Chief yelled to everyone help stretch a line, we
stretched the line.  We operated a line to get those
members back across.
R. RODRIGUEZ
5
          After that it was just basically searching
around.  I really don't remember much more than that,
taking a break around 2 in the afternoon.  Then going
back later that day.  We were told to get our rig,
because number 4 was totally involved and so we went,
made our way back to Liberty and Church.  The rig was
gone.  So we eventually wandered around until we
finally found the rig on Vesey and Church.  I think
Ladder 120 was setting it up at the time.
          We took the rig back over at that time and
then some Chief came up and said he wanted the rig out
of there because what was it, 6, number 6 building was
going to come down.  So we ended up pulling the rig up
another block or so.  Eventually he ordered everyone
over by City Hall.
          That was it.
     Q.   When you went into that hallway, the guy
pulled you in?
     A.   I was by the rig.  I never had a chance to
leave the rig.  About 3 or four of us that was stuck
right by the rig.  There was no chance.
     Q.   Did some of your company go down that hallway
or was that the guys from 20?
     A.   The chauffeur, William Smith and I think
R. RODRIGUEZ
6
there might have been a couple of guys with him that
went into that building, I'm not sure.  Like I said it
was -- I just remember myself, Matt Hagan being right
opposite, because he had the jump seat next to me so he
was right alongside me in the rig.  There were 3
civilians that were standing up in the street gawking
when we pulled up.  So they got hit there.
     Q.   When you went through 10 and 10's quarters,
you said you went through their quarters?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Did you see anybody in there?
     A.   There was someone in there that came out to
us and said listen, you guys can make your way through
here.  I can't remember who it was.  So we went that
way.  We went through there.  Because we were going to
attempt to try to start climbing up above.  He said no,
you are not going to get through there, come through
here.  We worked our way back through the back of
10-10's quarters.
     Q.   Anything else you can add or is that it?
     A.   No, that's it.  Like I said, after City Hall,
after that, after number 6 fell, later on we were
called to set up the rig over on -- I forgot what
street.
R. RODRIGUEZ
Q.   Vesey and West you said before?
7
     A.   That's where it was initially, but we had to
move it down another block and then down a block so we
could hit what was going on in 6.
     Q.   When you heard the Maydays, could you
identify anybody that was giving them, did you hear at
all?
     A.   No, not at all.  The only one I remember was
the voice of one guy saying he was choking, he couldn't
breathe.
     Q.   But he didn't identify himself?
     A.   There was just so much going on on the radio,
so much traffic, between Maydays and the urgents.
     Q.   Captain Tiso, that was the Captain in Rescue
3, you said Rescue.  I just wanted to make sure it was
Rescue 3.
A. Right.
     Q.   That was towards West and Liberty when you
were under that walkway?
     A.   West and Liberty, yes.
     Q.   You don't remember the Chief?
     A.   No, I don't remember the Chief.
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  Okay, anything else,
     otherwise the interview is concluded.  Okay,
     thanks for your time.

FILE NO 9110412
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER JAMES CURRAN
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 30 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

CURRAN
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN DECEMBER 30 2001
THE TIME IS NOW 1233 HOURS THIS IS BATTALION
CHIEF MALKIN OF THE SAFETY BATTALION IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW TODAY WITH FIREFIGHTER
SIXTH GRADE JAMES CURRAN OF LADDER COMPANY WE ARE IN THE QUARTERS OF LADDER COMPANY THERE IS NOBODY ELSE IN THE ROOM THIS INTERVIEW IS IN REGARDS TO THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001 WHAT FOLLOWS IS THE INTERVIEW WITH FIREMAN CURRAN
OCLOCK AND ASKED ME ITS NOT AN EMERGENCY BUT HAVE BEEN SMELLING GAS IN THE AREA OF MY HOUSE HE LIVED ON
313 CHURCH STREET HE ASKED IF WE WOULD FOLLOW UP ON
IT SO TOLD HIM TO CALL THE NON EMERGENCY NUMBER FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT THEY WILL DECIDE IF THEY WANT US TO GO CHECK IT OUT OR NOT SO WEDID AT 830 WEGOT TONED OUT FOR ODOR OF GAS ON THE CORNER OF CHURCH AND LISPENARD
US ENGINE AND LADDER WE ALL RESPONDED WITH THE FIRST BATTALION WE WERE THERE FOR 15 16 MINUTES WE HAD FOUND OUT WHAT GRATE THE LEAK WAS COMING FROM AND OUR CHIEF PFIEFER WAS BENT OVER WITH THE GAS METER WE HEARD THE PLANE WE LOOKED UP IT
TAKE IT
AWAY
OKAY GUY CALLED THE FIRE HOUSE ABOUT

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WAS LOW ENOUGH THAT IT RATTLED THE BUILDINGS WE WERE
AT WE SAW IT COME OUT FROM BEHIND THE BUILDINGS AND HIT TOWER ONE AND LIKE SAID
FIREBALL LOOKED LIKE 10 OR 20 STORIES BIG SHOT OUT THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE TOWER AND THEN OUT THE HOLE THAT THE PLANE MADE GOING IN
WE ALL JUMPED IN THE RIG GEARED UP DROVE DOWN WE HAD STRAIGHT SHOT ALL THE CARS WERE
PULLED OFF TO THE SIDE AND PEOPLE WERE LOOKING AT THE
STANDING
WE WENT DOWN BELIEVE WE WENT DOWN LISPENARD TO THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY MADE TURN AND
WE COULDNT PULL IN ANY CLOSER WE TRIED TO GET INTO THE TAXI INDENT BUT THERE WERE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND
BURNT ON THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY TO WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE HAD TO RUN THEM OVER TO GET ANY CLOSER SO WE GOT OUT
OF THE RIG WENT IN THE LOBBY ENGINE PULLED UP RIGHT BEHIND US AND LADDER WAS BEHIND THEM
BELIEVE
WE WENT IN THROUGH THE REVOLVING DOORS THERE WAS MINI LOBBY THERE WAS LIKE BROWN HAZE
SMOKE IN THE LOBBY LOT OF THE MARBLE SLABS WERE FALLING OFF THE WALL CRACKED THERE WERE TWO PEOPLE
IN LIKE THE LITTLE SECTION OF THIS LOBBY ONE GUY WAS BURNT PRETTY MUCH TO CRISP AND HIS JACKET WAS THE
BUILDING

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LEFT ON HIM PUT THAT OUT WITH CAN AND THEN THERE WAS LADY OFF TO THE RIGHT OF US THAT WAS ALIVE BUT SHE WAS SCREAMING THAT SHE COULDNT BREATHE SO HIT HER WITH THE CAN AND COOLED HER DOWN
WHERE DID THESE PEOPLE COME FROM
DONT KNOW IF THEY WERE IN THE ELEVATOR OR
WHAT NOT BUT THEY WERE THE ONLY TWO PEOPLE SAW IN
THE LOBBY AND THEY WERE RIGHT IN THE ENTRANCEWAY LIKE SAID SHE WAS STILL SMOKING WHEN WE GOT IN THERE THE
OTHER GUY WAS DEAD AND SHE WAS JUST SCREAMING THAT SHE COULDNT BREATHE
AFTER USED GUESS ABOUT HALF CAN ON HER WE WENT THROUGH THE LOBBY ALL THE ELEVATOR BANKS WERE KIND OF BLOWN OUT AT PROBABLY 70 DEGREE ANGLES 60 DEGREE ANGLES AND THERE IS ALL RUBBLE AND SPOT FIRES
IN THE LOBBY
WHERE DID THAT COME FROM
THINK THEY SAID THAT THE FUEL WENT ALL THE
WAY DOWN THE ELEVATOR SHAFT AND WHEN IT FINALLY HIT ROCK BOTTOM IT BLEW OUT ALL THE ELEVATORS
IS THAT IT
THATS WHAT HAVE BEEN HEARING DONT
KNOW DONT THINK ANYBODY REALLY KNOWS IT WAS PRETTY MUCH RUBBLE IN THE WHOLE LOBBY WALKING THROUGH
ONLY THING

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WE GOT BACK TO THE ESCALATORS AND THE POLICE HAD PEOPLE RUNNING DOWN BOTH ESCALATORS TRYING TO KEEP THEM CALM
WE FINALLY GOT THEM TO CHANNEL THEM ALL DOWN ONE SO WE COULD GET UP WE WENT UP THERE LOOKED TOWARDS THE COURTYARD AND ALL THE WINDOWS WERE STAINED PEOPLE HITTING THE COURTYARD GUESS
WE WENT AROUND THE INSIDE LEDGE THAT WAS BETWEEN THE ELEVATOR SHAFT THE CORNER OF THE BUILDING
AND THE ESCALATORS THIS STUFF WAS STILL DROPPING AND BREAKING THE WINDOWS WE WALKED ALL THE WAY AROUND AGAIN TRYING TO FIND WORKING ELEVATOR THERE WAS
FINALLY ONE RIGHT NEAR THE COMMAND POST BY THE SILVER DESK IN THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF THE MEZZANINE LEVEL
IT WAS WORKING LIEUTENANT HALLORAN MADE THE CALL HE WAS LIKE NO WE ARENT TAKING THE ELEVATOR IN THIS
CASE WE WILL WALK BELIEVE THATS THE ELEVATOR THAT 20 TRUCK AND SQUAD WOUND UP CATCHING AND WENT TO THE 16TH FLOOR
WE RESTED ON THINK THE 19TH FLOOR WAS THE
FIRST ONE WE RESTED ON AND WE WERE JUST WALKING
PEOPLE WERE COMING DOWN
YOU HAD ORDERS TO GO UP WAS THERE CHIEF
THERE OR YOU JUST START DECIDED TO START GOING UP
NO AT THAT POINT FIRST BATTALION THINK WAS
UP

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THE ONLY CHIEF THERE SO HE WAS KIND OF OVERLOADED SO
LIEUTENANT HALLORAN MADE THE CALL LETS
THERE WE GOT TO GO UP AND GET PEOPLE DOWN AND OUT
RIGHT
SO WE STARTED UP THINK WE WERE ON THE
THIRD OR FOURTH FLOOR WHEN THE FIRST PERSON WE SAW HAD BOTH OF HER ARMS BURNT SHE WAS COMING DOWN DONT
KNOW WHAT FLOOR SHE HAD COME DOWN FROM BUT WE WERE GOING UP IT WAS US ENGINE WAS WITH US BECAUSE THEIR CAPTAIN HAD ROLL UP WE WERE ALL KIND OF JUST WORKING TOGETHER THATS WHY WE ONLY MADE IT TO THE 30TH FLOOR BECAUSE WE WERE GOING SLOW INSTEAD OF
KILLING THEM WE HAD 90 FLOORS TO GO
SO WE WERE WALKING UP THINK SOME GUYS
FROM 33 ENGINE WERE WITH US WHEN WE RESTED ON THE 19TH FLOOR GUY FROM MY CLASS FROM TRUCK JUMPED
IN HE WAS WITH US SO LIKE 28 ENGINE IS RIGHT BEHIND US ACTUALLY GOING UP DIDNT SEE ANY OF THEM UNTIL WE WERE GOING DOWN WE WENT UP WE RESTED ON LIKE THE 19TH FLOOR THERE WERE PEOPLE ON THAT FLOOR GETTING OUT GOING DOWN THE STAIRS WE MADE SURE ALL OF THEM THEY HAD AN OPEN SPOT TO FILE INTO WE RESTED PROBABLY 10 MINUTES THERE WE MADE ANOTHER PUSH AND THEN WE STOPPED ON THE 23 FLOOR BECAUSE THERE WERE PEOPLE
JUST GET UP

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THERE THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT WE HAD BREAK FOR WATER THEY GAVE US WATER OUT OF THEIR OFFICES
THATS AGAIN WHEN RAN INTO JOHN TIERNEY FROM LADDER
REALIZED HE WAS WITH US
AFTER THE 23 ACTUALLY WE WERE SITTING ON THE
23 WHEN DONT KNOW IT WASNT THE TOWER GOING DOWN BUT THE BUILDING SHOOK AND VIBRATED WAS
SITTING RIGHT NEXT TO THE FIRST ELEVATOR SHAFT JUST MY
SLEEVE WAS IN
ENOUGH COMING DOVE INTO THE
JUST STACKED POINT THE AIR EVERYTHING IN
FRONT OF ME THERE WAS BREEZE STRONG OUT IT RUFFLED MY SHIRT AND WE ALL JUST
STAIRWAY PROBABLY DOVE ABOUT
GUYS OUT THEN IT SUBSIDED AT THIS
CONDITIONER WAS STILL WORKING
THE BUILDING WAS STILL FUNCTIONING FINE WE JUST DIDNT KNOW WHAT IT WAS
WE WENT BACK OUT GOT OUR BUNKER COATS ON
WENT UP AGAIN IT WAS REAL SLOW GOING UP BECAUSE THERE
WERE PEOPLE COMING DOWN AND WITH YOUR EQUIPMENT TRYING TO SQUEEZE BY THEM AND AT THE 30 FLOOR WE STOPPED
AGAIN WE HAD TO MAKE ANOTHER PUSH WE HAD THROWN GEAR DOWN WE HAD OUR MASKS ON THE FLOOR THE ONLY
THING KEPT MY GLOVES AND MY HELMET IN MY HAND AT ALL TIMES CALLED MY MOTHER FROM THE 30 FLOOR WAS TALKING TO HER ON THE NEWS WHEN SHE FREAKED SHE
GUYS

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WATCHED TOWER TWO COME DOWN WHILE WE WERE ON THE 30 FLOOR WAS ON THE PHONE WITH HER TOLD HER WILL CALL YOU BACK GOT TO GO SHE DIDNT KNOW IF WE WERE GOING UP OR DOWN AT THIS POINT
DONT KNOW WHAT CHIEF IT WAS DIDNT SEE HIM BEFORE IT AND DIDNT SEE HIM AFTER BUT HE IS THE
ONE THAT MADE THE CALL ALL FD GET OUT NOW WE ARE GOING DOWN STAIRCASE
HE WAS WITH YOU
HE POPPED OUT OF NOWHERE HE WASNT WITH US
GOING UP BUT HE CAME OUT OF NOWHERE HE HAD BULL HORN
AND HE IS SAYING EVERYONE OFF THE PHONES ALL FD WE
ARE LEAVING NOW
NO REASON HE DIDNT GIVE YOU REASON HE
JUST GET OUT
YES ACTUALLY SAID GET THE OUT DONT
WANT TO USE PROFANITY HE STRESSED WE ARE LEAVING WE ARE LEAVING NOW LETS GO THERE WAS PROBABLY 60 OF
US ON THAT FLOOR WHAT COMPANIES DONT KNOW BECAUSE THINK THERE WERE ALL DIFFERENT FLOORS CONGREGATED ON THE 30TH WE WERE ALL WALKING OVER TO WHERE OUR EQUIPMENT WAS OUR MASKS ALL THAT HE SAID YOU DONT HAVE TIME LEAVE EVERYTHING LETS GO
WE STARTED GOING DOWN AND ON THE WAY DOWN

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THERE WERENT MANY CIVILIANS THERE WAS THE ONE HEAVY SET LADY THAT KNOW LADDER WOUND UP GETTING OUT WE
HAD HER AT FIRST BIG WE TOOK HER PROBABLY ABOUT 10 FLOORS SHE HAD TO REST SO 33 ENGINE BELIEVE IT
WAS 33 IM NOT SURE THEY SAID OH WE GOT HER NOW SO THEY WERE TAKING HER THEN GUESS TRUCK WOUND UP
GETTING
HER IN THE END
BUT WE WENT DOWN AND THERE WERENT THERE
WERENT REALLY ANY THE LAST CIVILIANS THAT WE SAW THAT WERE AROUND WE LET GO IN FRONT OF US GOING DOWN
KNOW 28 ENGINE WAS WITH US 33 ENGINE HAD FEW GUYS WITH US JOHN TIERNEY FROM LADDER WAS THE GUY BEHIND ME ON THE STAIRS AND WE WERE WITH STILL GUYS IN MY COMPANY REMEMBER SEEING SOME GUYS FROM 20 TRUCK WE SAW GUYS FROM RESCUE BRANCHING OFF ON TO FLOOR WHEN WE WERE GOING DOWN
WHAT STAIRWAY WERE YOU IN DO YOU REMEMBER
STAIR
YES TO THE NINTH FLOOR AT THE NINTH FLOOR
AN ENGINEER TOLD US WE ARE GOING TO SWITCH STAIRCASES BECAUSE AT THAT POINT THAT WAS THE STAIRCASE EVERYONE
HAD FOUND BLOCKED WHEN THEY GOT TO THE BOTTOM AT THAT POINT WE SWITCHED TO STAIRCASE THAT LED US DOWN TO

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THE WEST SIDE OF THE TOWER ON THE GROUND GROUND LEVEL DONT KNOW IF IT HAS NAME WE WERE ALL IN THE
LOBBY THERE WAS DONT KNOW THE WHOLE LOBBY FROM WHERE THE STAIRS WERE TO WHERE THEY HAD WHOEVER WAS IN CHARGE DOWN THERE IT WAS PROBABLY DONT KNOW HOW
MANY FIREMEN PROBABLY 10 OR 11 COMPANIES
INAUDIBLE THEY WERE ALL STANDING AROUND GUESS WAITING FOR AN ORDER THATS DANNY MURPHY MADE THE
CALL HE WAS LIKE TOWER TWO WENT DOWN WHATS HOLDING THIS ONE UP THINK WE SHOULD LEAVE IT WAS ALMOST LIKE THATS THE CALL EVERYONE WAS WAITING ON CANT REMEMBER WHO SAID IT BUT SOMEONE SAID GET OUT
WHO IS DANNY MURPHY WHO IS THAT
HE IS ONE OF THE SENIOR GUYS HE WAS WORKING WITH US THAT DAY AS SOON AS HE SAID THAT ALL THE HEADS TURNED AND THEY STARTED FILING OUT DONT KNOW HOW MANY COMPANIES GOT OUT BEFORE US BUT WE FINALLY
BROKE INTO THE LINE WE STARTED GOING OUT WAS THE SECOND TO LAST GUY FROM MY COMPANY AND THEN SAL WAS BEHIND ME SAL BUTERA AND LIEUTENANT HALLORAN
WE STARTED FILING OUT AND FOLLOWING THE LINE OF THE BUILDING GOT JUST TO UNDERNEATH THE NORTH
WALKWAY GUY STARTED SCREAMING TO RUN WHEN GOT UNDERNEATH THE NORTH BRIDGE LOOKED BACK AND YOU HEARD
10

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IT HEARD LIKE EVERY FLOOR WENT CHU CHU CHU LOOKED
BACK AND FROM THE PRESSURE EVERYTHING WAS GETTING BLOWN OUT OF THE FLOORS BEFORE IT ACTUALLY COLLAPSED RAN
NORTH UP THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY SAL RAN WEST SOMEWHERE AND GOT BLOWN OFF GOT BURNT ON THE BACK OF HIS BACK
AND WENT TO THE HOSPITAL BUT RAN NORTH EVERYONE IN FRONT OF ME WAS WAYS IN FRONT OF ME DIDNT SEE ANYONE BEHIND ME
THE CAPTAIN FROM ENGINE AND ME CAME OUT THE CLOUD JUST ABOUT THE SAME TIME WE WENT OVER WASHED OUR FACES OFF AT HYDRANT AND WENT BACK DOWN ONCE TEAMED UP WITH THE REST OF MY COMPANY ME AND DANNY MURPHY WENT DOWN TO LOOK FOR LIEUTENANT HALLORAN AND
ALL THE OTHER GUYS WERE GOING DOWN LOOKING FOR THEIR PEOPLE
LIKE SAID DONT KNOW WHAT IT WAS WHEN
THE BUILDING SHOOK WHEN WE WERE ON THE 23 EVERYONE SEEMED TO THINK IT WAS THE TOWER GOING DOWN BUT
DONT THINK SO WHEN WE WERE ON THE 30TH IS WHEN WAS ON THE PHONE WITH MY MOTHER AND SHE WATCHED IT ON THE LIVE ON THE NEWS COLLAPSE WHILE WE WERE IN THE 30TH
HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO GET FROM THE 23 TO THE 30
NOT LONG PROBABLY ANOTHER 15
11

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SO THE FIRST SHAKING COULDNT HAVE HEEN THE
TOWER TWO
NO WE WERE ON THE 16 FLOOR WHEN IT WAS
CONFIRMED THAT ANOTHER PLANE HIT TOWER TWO AT THAT POINT SOMEONE THAT WAS SUPPOSEDLY SECRET SERVICE
WHICH DISAPPEARED WE NEVER KNEW WHERE HE WENT HE SAID THERE WAS THIRD INCOMING FLIGHT THAT WAS
HE WAS TELLING EVERYBODY THAT
AT THAT POINT DIDNT KNOW IF
AT EACH OTHER AND LIKE WELL DO WE GO UP DO WE GO
DOWN AT THAT POINT ITS LIKE WELL IF ITS GOING TO HIT OUR TOWER ITS GOING TO HIT OUR TOWER LETS KEEP
GOING UP TURNED OUT TO BE FALSE REPORT BUT WE COULDNT FIND THE GUY AFTER HE SAID THAT
INAUDIBLE
VANISHED DONT KNOW WHERE HE WENT
WHO WAS THE LIEUTENANT FROM TRUCK LIEUTENANT HALLORAN
WAS HE ON DUTY THAT DAY OR WAS HE
VOLUNTEERING
YES NO ON NIGHT TOUR THE ONLY REASON WE
WERE EVEN ALL THERE WAS OUR COMPANY WAS OUT OF SERVICE AT 0900 FOR COMPANY MEDICALS SO WE HAD TO RIDE TILL
HE WAS ON THE NIGHT TOUR WAS THE ONLY ONE THAT
PLANE HITTING
12
WE LOOKED

CURRAN
WASNT ON MY NORMAL SCHEDULE WAS WORKING FOR GUY
WHO WAS WORKING
WHERE WAS HE WAS HE WITH YOU WHEN YOU WERE
CLIMBING THE STAIRS WERE YOU GUYS ALL TOGETHER
WE GOT SPLIT UP AT ONE POINT BUT WE ALL MET
FLOORS LATER BECAUSE HIM AND KEVIN DINKINS WOUND
UP
UP GOING UP STRAIGHT TO THE 30TH AND WHEN WE STOPPED WITH THE CAPTAIN FROM ENGINE MAYBE ANOTHER 15 MINUTES WE WERE ALL LINKED UP AGAIN ON THE 30TH FLOOR ACTUALLY ME AND HIM WE HAD GONE UP TO THE 31 AND FORCED THE DOOR AS SOON AS YOU TOOK IT YOU SMELLED JET FUEL RIGHT AWAY SO WE SHUT THE DOOR
WE SAID ALL RIGHT WE WILL GO BACK DOWN TO 30TH WHERE THE REST OF THE GUYS ARE THERE WERE
PROBABLY OF US THAT WENT UP THERE WHEN WE WENT DOWN THATS WHEN DECIDED TO MAKE PHONE CALL BECAUSE MY MOTHER WORKS AT THE BANK OF NEW YORK BUILDING WAS
JUST CALLING TO MAKE SURE SHE WAS ALL RIGHT AND TELL HER TO LEAVE WHICH SHE WAS BUT SHE WAS AT HOME SHE DIDNT MAKE IT IN THATS WHEN TOWER TWO WENT DOWN WAS ON THE PHONE WITH HER
WHERE DID THIS LIEUTENANT GO WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU SAW HIM
WHEN WE WERE IN THE LOBBY WE ALL COLLECTED
13

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RIGHT NEAR THE COMMAND POST HUT THEN AFTER DANNY SAID WHAT HE SAID ABOUT WE SHOULD GET OUT WE HAD ALREADY
STARTED MAKING OUR WAY OVER BUT ALL OF US WERE AT
THAT PILLAR OF PAINTED GLASS THAT WE WOUND UP WALKING OUT
LIKE SAID THE ONLY THING CAN THINK OF IS EITHER ONCE HE GOT US OUT HE WENT BACK MAYBE JUST TO TELL THE CHIEF FOR ACCOUNTABILITY TRUCKS OUT MY GUYS ARE OUT IM LEAVING OR HE MIGHT HAVE WALKED OUT RIGHT BEHIND US AND SOMETHING HIT HIM HE WALKED BACK IN
TOWER AND
YOU GUYS WERE EXITING THE LOBBY OF THE NORTH THATS ABOUT THE LAST TIME YOU SAW HIM
YES
YOU ARE NOT SURE WHETHER HE WENT BACK IN
AS SOON AS WE STARTED FILING OUT WAS THE
WE GOT SEPARATED THE WHOLE TIME DOWN THERE BUT IT WAS JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS IT WAS SUCH SHORT TIME FROM WHEN WE WERE FILING OUT TO WHEN WE HEARD RUN THAT YOU KNOW MAYBE WE WOULD HAVE GOTTEN TO THE NORTH BRIDGE TO WHERE STUFF WOULD HAVE HIT US AND COLLECT AGAIN BUT WE DIDNT EVEN HAVE THE CHANCE TO DO THAT WE WERE JUST GOING UNDERNEATH THE BRIDGE WHEN THE GUY STARTED SCREAMING RUN THATS THE ONLY
ONLY TIME
14

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TIME WE REALLY GOT SEPARATED
WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE NORTH TOWER CAME
DOWN WHAT DID YOU WIND UP DOING
LIKE SAID WE RAN UP NORTH GOT JUST PAST
THE BEGINNING OF THE PHONE COMPANY BUILDING WHEN THE DUST CLOUD CAME WENT UP THERE WE CLEANED OUR FACES UP LITTLE BIT GOT SOME OF THE CONCRETE OUT FROM US CLEANED OURSELVES UP LITTLE BIT WOUND UP FINDING DANNY MURPHY EVERYONE GOT SEPARATED IT WAS JUST BUNKER GEAR RUNNING EVERYWHERE ONCE DANNY SAW ME HE GRABBED ME HE IS LIKE LETS GO SO WE WALKED RIGHT BACK DOWN CALLING FOR LIEUTENANT HALLORAN
THERE WAS GUYS COMING UP AROUND US WE WERE ASKING LIKE YES WE SAW HIM BACK THERE SO WE THOUGHT
HE WAS
OKAY
STANDING OUT ON THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY BUT
WE WENT DOWN AND THEN ONCE YOU WERE ACTUALLY DOWN NO HAVENT SEEN HIM HAVENT SEEN HIM WE LOOKED FOR
ABOUT AN HOUR THATS WHEN WE FINALLY WENT BACK TO THE FIRE HOUSE TO CALL OUR FAMILIES AND SAY LISTEN WE ARE ALL RIGHT THIS AND THAT
HOW DID YOU GET BACK TO THE FIRE HOUSE
WE WALKED WE ALL GATHERED WHAT TOOLS WE HAD
15

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HERE AND WE WALKED BACK DOWN AND THEN THE RECOVERY HAD BEEN STARTED LIKE YOU SAID DONT KNOW WHAT IT WAS
ON THE 23 FLOOR BUT DEFINITELY IT WASNT THE TOWER GOING DOWN THE ONLY THING HEARD ON THE RADIO
HEARD LOTS OF MAYDAYS GOING UP GUYS HAVING CHEST PAINS ON LIKE 10 11TH FLOORS
YOU CANT CLIMB WITH BUNKER GEAR COULDNT
DO IT IM SURPRISED YOU GUYS 19 FLOORS YOU SAID BEFORE YOU STOPPED COULDNT DO MORE THAN FLOORS YOU ARE YOUNG BUT LOT OF GUYS
THE ONLY THING THAT SAVED YOU WITH EVERYONE COMING DOWN YOU HAD TO STOP AT EVERY HALF LANDING SO YOU ONLY DID IT HALF FLOOR AT TIME BY THE TIME WE HIT THE 19TH WE WERE
YES HOW LONG DO YOU THINK IT WOULD HAVE TAKEN YOU TO GET TO THE 80TH FLOOR IF YOU HAD GONE TO THE 80TH FLOOR
IM GUESSING PROBABLY HOURS AND HALF IT TOOK US JUST ABOUT AN HOUR MAYBE LITTLE OVER AN
HOUR TO GET TO THE 30TH
THE ENGINE COMPANIES THAT YOU SAW WERE THEY
CARRYING ROLLUPS UP
THINK THATS WHAT SAVED US ACTUALLY
BECAUSE THE CAPTAIN FROM ENGINE WAS AN OLDER
16

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GENTLEMAN HE KNEW THAT THEY WOULD NEED AN EXTRA ROLL
UP SO HE GRABBED ONE HE WAS HURTING WE STOPPED WE ALWAYS STAYED WITH HIM WE NEVER LEFT HIM EVERY TIME
HE LASTED AS LONG AS US IM SURPRISED BECAUSE WE WERE ALL READY TO STOP EVERY TIME WE DID THE STOPS WERE GETTING MORE FREQUENT WE STOPPED ON THE 19 THEN WE STOPPED ON THE 23 THEN WE STOPPED ON THE 30TH WE PROBABLY WOULD HAVE STOPPED EVERY NINE 10 FLOORS AFTER THAT
YOU HAVE TO DO THAT YOU HAD TO DO THAT OR YOU WOULD HAVE HEART ATTACK
THANK GOD THE AIR CONDITIONER WAS STILL WORKING ON THE 30TH FLOOR IS WHEN THE ELECTRICITY
WENT OFF THE LIGHTS WENT OUT AND THEN THE FIRE ALARM SYSTEMS STARTED GOING OFF THE ONLY THING ON THERE WAS STROBES
LIGHTS
LIGHTS
COULD YOU SEE THEN WERE THERE EMERGENCY IN THE STAIRWAY
NO ACTUALLY THE STAIRCASESS EMERGENCY WERENT ON
SO WHAT WERE YOU DOING
ONE OF THE NIGHT GUYS HAD FLASHLIGHTS
YOU HAD YOUR FLASHLIGHTS
YES BUT THINK THE FLOORS THAT WERE ALREADY
17

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PASSED THINK PEOPLE CHOPPED THE DOORS OPEN SO LIGHT COMING IN FROM THE WINDOWS IT WASNT LIGHT BUT IT
WAS STILL GUESS ENOUGH GUYS WITH FLASHLIGHTS AND WHATEVER YOU COULD SEE WHATS WEIRD IS THE SMOKE
CONDITION ON THE FLOORS ACTUALLY GOT WORSE ON ABOUT THE
22 FLOOR JOHN TIERNEY ACTUALLY ASKED ME HE IS IN MY
CLASS HE RECOGNIZED ME RIGHT AWAY HE IS LIKE YOU WANT SOME AIR FROM MY MASK BECAUSE LEFT MINE ON THE
30TH TOLD HIM NO IN CASE YOU NEED IT KEEP IT AND HE DIDNT MAKE IT HE WAS TWO GUYS BEHIND ME ON THE
STAIRS AND HE DIDNT MAKE IT
THINK ME AND SAL WERE PRETTY MUCH THE LAST
TWO OUT OF THE BUILDING BEFORE IT CAME DOWN THINK THE GUYS BEHIND US THINK THEY ALL RAN WEST OR SOUTH
THAT WASNT GOOD
NO IF YOU RAN NORTH YOU WERE UNSCATHED
THINK SAL RAN LIKE NORTHWEST HE GOT KNOCKED DOWN AND THROWN THINK LIKE 20 30 FEET STUFF WAS LAYING ON HIM HE WAS ACTUALLY LAYING ON THE GROUND NEXT TO
CHIEF HE FORGET HIS NAME THE GUY SAID HIS NAME
WAS LIKE OH ITS GOOD TO NOT BE ALONE AT THIS TIME
THEY COULDNT SEE EACH OTHER COULDNT KNOW ANYTHING THAT HE GOT BURNT ON THE BACK OF HIS NECK CAME OUT OF THE CLOUDS AND THE PARAMEDICS GRABBED HIM RIPPED HIS
18
HE

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COAT OFF THEY HOSED HIM DOWN AND TOOK HIM STRAIGHT
UPTOWN GUESS COLUMBIA PRESBYTERIAN WHATEVER IT WAS ALL THE WAY UPTOWN
BUT RAN DIRECTLY NORTH LOT OF GUYS WEST LOT OF GUYS THAT NEVER OPERATED DOWN THERE WHATEVER HAD PHONE COMPANY JOB BEFORE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT THAT MY OFFICE WAS DOWN OVER IN THAT AREA
SO KNEW WOULD RATHER RUN UP THE WEST SIDE
HIGHWAY WHERE THERE WERE NO INTERRUPTIONS PAVEMENT AS FAR AS COULD RUN THEN JUMP OVER MIDDLE ISLAND
THEN WHO KNOWS WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO RUN INTO
RIGHT
BUT KNOW LOT OF GUYS RAN WEST FRIEND OF MINE IN 207 ENGINE DID THAT HE GOT PICKED UP HE
RODE THE CLOUD LIKE 70 FEET TILL HE HIT FENCE
NO KIDDING
ALL HE SAW WAS SQUARE WE WAS THIS DIDNT TURN OUT TO BE FENCE
CHAIN LINK
WHAT IF
IS HE ALL RIGHT
HE BROKE HIS THUMB HE ACTUALLY WHEN TOWER
ONE WHEN TOWER TWO WENT DOWN AND GOT BURIED IN RUBBLE AND HIM AND GUY DUG THEMSELVES OUT AND THEN TOWER ONE CAME DOWN ON HIM AND TOSSED HIM AGAIN SO HE
19
RAN

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IS STILL LITTLE OUT THERE
HES
VERY LUCKY LUCKY TWICE OVER
TWICE OVER RIGHT
THATS BASICALLY EVERYTHING BESIDES
LUCKY GUY
IS ALL JUMBLED UP WHO SAW THE ONLY REASON
REMEMBER 28 ENGINE IS BECAUSE THINK IT WAS EVERY HALF
LANDING THE COMPANIES WOULD SCREAM 28 IM HERE IM HERE ALL RIGHT ALL RIGHT THEN YOU GOT TO THE NEXT
FLOOR 28 THERE WAS GUY WADE THINK HIS NAME IS FROM 33 THAT WAS WITH US THE WHOLE WAY DOWN JUST
WHOLE MIX UP OF ALL DIFFERENT COMPANIES
WHEN YOU GOT BACK TO THE FIRE HOUSE YOU NEVER
WENT BACK THAT FIRE HOUSE
PROBABLY CLOCK
DAY WHAT TIME DID YOU GET BACK TO THE
BACK TO THE FIRE HOUSE IM
1130 IN THE MORNING MAYBE 1130 12
THE NEXT MORNING
THAT AFTERNOON THE BUILDING COLLAPSED AT
930 10 10 OCLOCK
WE WERE DOWN THERE FOR COUPLE OF MORE
HOURS DOWN THERE UNTIL ABOUT 12 1230 CAME BACK AND THEN WE WENT BACK DOWN THAT NIGHT DIDNT GO HOME
GUESSING
20
THAT

UNTIL
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THURSDAY MORNING WE WOULD DO LIKE
THURSDAY MORNING
HOURS DOWN THERE AND THEN WE WOULD MAN THE RIG FOR WHATEVER HOURS WAS PRETTY
MUCH DOWN THERE IN THE AREA FOR THREE DAYS DONT KNOW HOW MANY LOADS OF LAUNDRY DID BECAUSE EVERYTHING
WOULD BE ITCHING LIKE CRAZY EVERY TIME YOU CAME BACK ALL THAT IS LIKE WHOLE BLUR TO ME BECAUSE AFTERWARDS
WAS IN SHOCK DONT KNOW IF WAS IN SHOCK OR
COULDNT BELIEVE THAT LIVED OR NOT OR WHAT
KNOW WE DUG FOR LIKE HOURS DAY AND MANNED THE RIG FOR THE OTHER HOURS
DID YOU FIND ANY FIREMEN WHEN YOU WERE
DIGGING
NO WE WERE ALWAYS SENT TO SPOTS WHERE WE NEVER FOUND ANYONE ALTHOUGH THAT SPOT RIGHT AFTER WE
LEFT IS WHEN THEY GOT DEEP ENOUGH THEY WOUND UP FINDING ONE OR TWO GUYS HERE AND THERE THEN THEY
BROUGHT IN THE ABC PLATOON THING JUST DID THE 24 ON 24 OFF
LIEUTENANT DONAHUE GOT ME DETAILED TO 18 ENGINE THEY TOOK THE SQUAD OUT OF
SERVICE WORKED THERE FOR BY WEEK AT 20 TRUCKS QUARTERS NO MORE FIRE DUTY THEN AFTER THAT WENT
21
JUST

22
BACK TO REGULAR CHART IS THAT IT
YES THATS BASICALLY IT
CURRAN
BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN ITS 1255 HOURS THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW THANK FIREFIGHTER CURRAN FOR THE INTERVIEW THATS THE END

FILE NO 9110413
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER TIERNACH CASSIDY
INTERVIEW DATE DECEMBER 30 2001
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

CASSIDY
CHIEF MALKIN TODAYS DATE IS
123001 THE TIME IS 1136 HOURS AND THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN SAFETY BATTALION IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH FIREFIGHTER THIRD GRADE TIERNACH
WERE IN THE QUARTERS OF ENGINE THE INTERVIEW CONCERNS THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
OKAY YOU CAN START ANYPLACE WHERE YOU WERE WHEN YOU GOT THE RUN
AT THE TIME ON 911 WAS ON LIGHT
DUTY AT THE 1ST DIVISION WAS RIGHT OVER AT 20
TRUCK AND SQUAD 18S QUARTERS ON LAFAYETTE BETWEEN SPRING AND PRINCE ARRIVED THERE FOR
LIGHT DUTY 800 IN THE MORNING
GO OUT ON THE TOP OF THE BUILDING FOR
MY MORNING CIGARETTE USUALLY IM THE ONLY PERSON OUT THERE SMOKING THINK BY THE TIME
GOT THERE IT WAS MAYBE 830 THE FIRST PLANE HAD ALREADY HIT YOU SEE PLAINLY FROM THE ROOF OF
THE 1ST DIVISION THE TOWERS
EVERYBODY WAS ON THE ROOF THE SHOCK
AND DISMAY AND FEAR IN EVERYBODYS EYES THE FIREMEN EVERYBODY THAT WAS THERE THAT DIDNT GO
CASSIDY ENGINE

CASSIDY
DOWN THERE THAT WAS ON LIGHT DUTY WITH ME BECAUSE THEY DIDNT DO WHAT THEY CALL THE TOTAL RECALL AT THAT POINT
OF COURSE WERE ALL ASKED LETS GO GO THEYRE LIKE IT WENT TO FIFTH ALARM
WEVE GOT ENOUGH GUYS DOWN THERE DONT WORRY ABOUT IT ITS TAKEN CARE OF STILL WAS IN
SHOCK WAS STANDING THERE STANDING ON THE ROOF NOT WATCHING THE TV STANDING ON THE ROOF
WATCHING
WE DONT ACTUALLY SEE THE SECOND PLANE HIT BUT WE SEE THE IMPACT WE WERE ON OF COURSE
THE NORTH SIDE SO WE SAW THE HUGE EXPLOSION ENGULF THE WHOLE TOP OF THAT BUILDING
WHEN COULD TALK AFTER THAT SAID NOW WERE GOING YOU KNOW LETS GO
SURE
THE GUY IN CHARGE OF THE GUYS ON LIGHT DUTY THAT DAY SAID KNOW YOU GUYS STILL
ARENT GOING YOU HAVE TO WAIT YOURE NOT
YOU HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL THE CALL IS MADE
GOING
UNTIL THEY SAY WE CAN GO HES CALLING TO SEE
IF WE CAN BECAUSE WE ALL WANT TO GO

CASSIDY
THEN WE START GOING DOWNSTAIRS 20 AND 18 LEFT WHEN THE FIRST PLANE HIT SO WE GO
DOWNSTAIRS WE GO DOWN THE BACK STAIRS OF THE
1ST DIVISION AND WE SET INTO 20 18 AND WE START
GRABBING PUTTING GEAR TOGETHER BECAUSE WE WERE
GOING TO GO ANYWHERE
THEN THE FIRST TOWER CAME DOWN THEN
THE GUY THAT WAS IN CHARGE OF US CAME RUNNING
DOWN THE STAIRS HES LIKE EVERYBODYS GOING WHO WANTS TO GO
47 TRUCK WAS RELOCATED TO 20 WHETHER THEY WERE RELOCATED THERE OR JUST GOING DOWN TO
PICK UP GEAR DONT KNOW THEY WERE STOCKING THEIR RIG WITH CYLINDERS AND TOOLS RADIOS ANYTHING THEY COULD GET THEIR HANDS ON
TRUCK AND WE HEADED DOWN BROADWAY THIS IS NOW AFTER THE FIRST TOWER HAD COLLAPSED WERE GOING
DOWN BROADWAY AND PEOPLE WERE ALREADY FLOCKING UP BROADWAY UP LAFAYETTE EVERYWHERE UPTOWN ON THE WAY DOWN PEOPLE WERE BLESSING
THEMSELVES AS WE WERE GOING DOWN IM STANDING
ON TOP OF THE RIG BETWEEN THE BUCKET AND THE CAB
AND TEN OTHER MEMBERS THAT WERE
MYSELF
THERE ON LIGHT DUTY WE ALL JUMPED ON TOP OF 47

CASSIDY
BETWEEN THE LADDER AND THE CAB PEOPLE WERE
BLESSING THEMSELVES IN THIS GLOOMINESS OF GOING DOWN IT WAS LIKE OUT OF MOVIE COULDNT
BELIEVE WHAT WAS GOING ON
BUT WE GET DOWN THERE AND ALL THE GUYS
THAT WE HAD ON THE TOP OF THE RIG WE HAD TEN GUYS AND WHATEVER OTHER GUYS CAME IN FROM 18 AND
20 WE COULDNT SEE ONCE WE GOT PAST CITY HALL BLOCK AHEAD OF YOURSELF YOU COULD SEE ONE BLOCK
AT TIME AND THATS IT FROM THAT FIRST DUST CLOUD AND THE SMOKE AND WHATEVER
WE STOPPED WHEN WE GET TO FULTON STREET
JUST TO GET OUR BEARINGS AND EVERYBODY ON THE BACK AS IM SITTING BY THE CAB SO EVERYBODY
BY THE BUCKET THEY ALL JUMP OFF THINK IT WAS FIVE GUYS BECAUSE WE SAID WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE HAD TEAM OF FIVE GUYS SO GUESS THE FIRST TEAM JUMPED OFF THE BACK ON FULTON AND THEN THE TRUCK TOOK OFF AGAIN
WE LEAVE THE TRUCK ON THE BROADWAY SIDE OF ONE LIBERTY PLAZA BETWEEN CORTLANDT STREET AND LIBERTY WE ALL GET OFF THE RIG THE MEMBERS OF 47 AND THE MEMBERS WAS WITH FROM LIGHT DUTY
AND WE START PACKING STOKES BASKETS WITH SPARE

CASSIDY
CYLINDERS TOOLS WHATEVER WE COULD CARRY
CIVILIANS ARE RUNNING UP TO US SAYING THEY CANT BREATHE SO WERE GIVING THEM HITS OF
THE CYLINDERS OF THE MASKS WE HAD CYLINDERS BUT WE DIDNT ALL HAVE MASKS DIDNT HAVE
MASK YET
WE START WALKING DOWN CORTLANDT STREET
FROM BROADWAY GOING WEST AND WERE CARRYING THE STOKES BASKET MYSELF AND THE TEAM WAS WITH
THE OTHER FOUR GUYS WE STARTED HEARING THE PANCAKING OF THE NORTH TOWER NOW
LOOKED AT THE OFFICER WAS WITH WE BOTH LOOKED AT EACH OTHER LIKE WHATS THAT NOT
THINKING THE SECOND ONE WOULD BE COMING DOWN WHAT DID IT SOUND LIKE
IT SOUNDED LIKE
READY TO LAND JUST GETTING CLOSER COMING IN
BOWLING BALL GETTING CLOSER WHEN ITS READY TO HIT THAT SWEET SPOT YOU KNOW BUT IT DIDNT
TAKE US LONG TO REALIZE WHAT IT WAS WE DIDNT
LOOK UP WE JUST RAN BACK TO THE RIG THINKING
THAT WOULD BE SAFETY OR JUST AWAY ANYWAY
SO WE RAN BACK UP CORTLANDT TOWARDS
BROADWAY AND THE OTHER GUYS IM NOT SURE WHERE
PLANE JUST GETTING

CASSIDY
THEY ALL DOVE OPENED UP THE DOOR TO 47 TRUCK AND STUCK TO THE SIDE OF THE RIG AND PULLED MY
HELMET DOWN OVER MY EARS
REMEMBER RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM
ONE LIBERTY THE OTHER BUILDING HAD MONUMENT OR
SOMETHING IT WAS BIG SQUARE WITH HOLE IN IT ITS BEEN SITTING THERE FOREVER JUST
REMEMBER WATCHING THAT AND THINKING THIS IS IT WHATEVER DEBRIS IS HITTING ME IN THE
HEAD OR HITTING THE TRUCK AND FALLING NEXT TO ME IM STILL LOOKING AT THIS MONUMENT THEN THE
MONUMENT SLOWLY DISAPPEARS FROM THE CLOUD IT WAS COVERED IN THAT WE WERE ALL COVERED IN
HOWEVER LONG IT TOOK DONT KNOW AS SOON AS DEBRIS STOPPED FLOATING ON US WE DUSTED OURSELVES OFF WE WENT BACK TO THE STOKES BASKET FOUND IT PICKED IT UP AND CONTINUED DOWN CORTLANDT
THEN HALFWAY DOWN CORTLANDT BEFORE WE GOT DOWN TO CHURCH STREET WE HEARD MAYDAY
BEING GIVEN ALREADY IN ONE OF THE BUILDINGS OFF TO THE RIGHT WHICH IS THE EAST RIVER SAVINGS
BANK THERE WAS MEMBER IN THERE IM NOT SURE WHAT COMPANY WHERE HES FROM BUT HE HAD

CASSIDY
BROKEN LEG THE OTHER THREE MEMBERS NEEDED TO TAKE HIM OUT
SO IT WAS JUST MYSELF AND THE OFFICER NOW LEFT WITH THE STOKES BASKET AND WE CONTINUED DOWN WHILE THOSE THREE OTHER MEMBERS ASSISTED THIS FIREFIGHTER THE OFFICER AND MYSELF WENT TO THE CORNER OF LIBERTY AND CHURCH IT WAS ON THE CORNER OF 10 AND 10
WE DROPPED THE STOKES BASKET THERE
USED TO LIVE DOWN ON MAIDEN LANE YEARS AGO WHICH
IS BLOCK AND HALF FROM THE WORLD TRADE CENTER SO KNEW THE AREA REALLY WELL WAS TELLING THIS TO THE OFFICER ON THE WAY DOWN KNOW THIS AREA
SO WE GOT DOWN TO CHURCH AND LIBERTY AND HE ASKED ME WHICH WAY SHOULD WE GO AND
DIDNT KNOW WE COULDNT WALK THROUGH 10 AND 10 THE STREET WAS AT LEAST THREE STORIES HIGH OF DEBRIS COVERING 10 AND 10 THINK WE WALKED DOWN CEDAR DOWN GREENWICH DOWN ALBANY UNTIL WE GOT DOWN TO THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY WEST STREET
WE GOT TO WEST STREET THEY HAD SOME SORT OF COMMAND STRUCTURE SET WE SAW SOME WHITE
HELMETS AT FIRST WE STARTED ASKING WHAT ARE

CASSIDY
WE DOING WHAT ARE WE DOING NOBODY REALLY HAD
SPECIFIC ANSWER
AT THAT POINT WE JUST NEEDED MORE
TOOLS SO WE SAW THERE WAS AN ESU VEHICLE
EMERGENCY SERVICES UNIT POLICE VEHICLE SQUAD CARS WHATEVER AND WE TRIED TO GET INTO THOSE TO
GET SOME MORE LIVE SAVING ROPES UTILITY ROPES
ANYTHING WE THOUGHT WE COULD USE HALLIGAN MAUL WHAT WE NEEDED
THEN FOUND MASK SO MASKED UP
CYLINDER HAD LIFE SAVING ROPE UTILITY
ROPE HALLIGAN THE OFFICER HAD NO HAD THE MAUL HE HAD THE HALLIGAN HE HAD HIS MASK THEN
WE WALKED DOWN WEST STREET THINK RIGHT NO ACTUALLY WE WENT FURTHER DOWN THAN WEST WE WENT ALL THE WAY DOWN ALBANY WE WENT PAST WEST DOWN TO LIBERTY BETWEEN THE RIGHT BEFORE YOU GET TO THAT ITS LIKE ANOTHER ATRIUM ALMOST SET UP ITS BY THE GATEWAY PLAZA AREA
WE HUNG RIGHT UP LIBERTY STREET FROM THERE AND WE ENTERED BETWEEN THE MARRIOTT IM SORRY YEAH BETWEEN THE VISTA INTERNATIONAL AND TWO WORLD TRADE CENTER HERE IS WHERE WE ENTERED THE SITE

CASSIDY 10
COULDNT TELL WHAT RIGS WERE ON FIRE WHILE WERE WALKING BY THEM WE HAD HOSE LINES
STRETCHED WE HELPED STRETCH LINE QUICKLY JUST TO GET IT OVER DEBRIS THEN WE CONTINUED WE
DIDNT KNOW WHAT WE DIDNT KNOW WHERE TO START LOOKING WE COULD HAVE STARTED LOOKING WHERE WE
WERE STANDING BUT WE WANTED TO GET IN GET IN GET IN
REMEMBER THE WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER TWO AND THREE WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER BEING AT MY
BACK BECAUSE IT WAS THE BIGGEST BUILDINGS
ONLY KNEW THATS AS ON MAIDEN WHICH WAY
WHAT WAS NORTH SOUTH EAST AND WEST MUCH AS COULD TELL FROM LIVING DOWN LANE FOR FOUR YEARS COULD ONLY TELL WAS NORTH SOUTH EAST AND WEST SO
EVERY TIME THE OFFICER ASKED ME CASSIDY WHERE ARE WE LOOKED AROUND AND SEE TWO WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER THERE WOULD BE LIKE THATS WEST THATS NORTH AND THATS ALL COULD TELL HIM
WHEN WE GOT TO PRETTY MUCH BETWEEN ONE AND TWO WOULD ASSUME BECAUSE ONCE YOURE IN THERE AT THAT TIME YOU HAD NO CLUE
ITS LIKE MOUNTAIN AT THIS
POINT

RIGHT
HE TOOK
DID YOU GUYS HAVE RADIO
HE HAD RADIO HE HAD RADIO WHICH
FROM 20 TRUCK FROM 20 TRUCK
YEAH
CASSIDY 11
BOTH BUILDINGS ARE DOWN YOURE ON TOP OF MOUNTAIN
CORRECT CORRECT WE DIDNT KNOW EXACTLY HOW HIGH WE WERE UP SOME OF THE VOIDS THAT WE SAW OF COURSE WE WENT THE OFFICER HE WAS ALL GUNG HO WAS STICKING WITH HIM
WENT FOR THE LIFE SAVING ROPE GIVE HIM ONE END HE WOULD TIE HIMSELF OFF AND
WOULD BE UP TOP AND TIE IT TO WHATEVER SUBSTANTIAL OBJECT COULD HE WOULD GO GIVE QUICK SEARCH JUST TO SEE BECAUSE THERE WERE STILL MAYDAYS BEING GIVEN ALL OVER
DONT KNOW HOW LONG WE WERE WALKING AROUND IT WAS ABOUT TWO HOURS PRIOR TO BUILDING
SEVEN COMING DOWN UNTIL WE FINALLY FOUND
SOMEBODY WE WERE WALKING AROUND FOR AT LEAST THREE HOURS

CASSIDY 12
FINALLY WE FIND THIS HUGE HOLE IM
STANDING ON THE TOP OF THIS HUGE GIRDER NOTHING WAS MOVING ON THIS GIRDER THE SIZE OF THESE
THINGS SO IM STANDING ON TOP OF THE GIRDER
AT THIS POINT NOW WE COULDNT CARRY ALL OUR TOOLS
IT WAS LIKE CLIMBING MOUNTAIN WITH
AN EXTRA HUNDRED POUNDS ON YOU YOU JUST CANT DO IT
STARTED LEAVING TOOLS LEFT AND RIGHT
WAS LEAVING THE HALLIGAN JUST HELD ONTO THE LIFE SAVING ROPE WHICH ITS GOOD THING DID
BECAUSE WHEN GOT TO THE TOP OF THE GIRDER HE SAID HES GOING TO GO DOWN SO UNFURLED THE LIFE SAVING ROPE AGAIN AND HE GOES DOWN IN THIS HOLE AND HE COMES UP IT WASNT HOLE IT WAS
ANYMORE
BIG GAPING GASH 30 40 FEET
IT WAS ABOUT 35 FEET DOWN
SO HE GOES DOWN AND HE COMES UP THE OTHER SIDE AND HE SCALES THIS OTHER BEAM TO GET
HE GETS TO THE TOP OF IT AND IM ALMOST OUT OF ROPE SO HE SAYS THERES ANOTHER GAP ANOTHER
VOID OVER HERE HE SAID IM GOING TO BE OUT OF SIGHT FOR COUPLE SECONDS WAS LIKE ALL
UP
RIGHT
DIDNT HAVE RADIO NOW COULDNT

CASSIDY 13
EVEN HEAR HIM HOW FAR HE WAS AWAY
SO BOTTOM OF THE SAID HE FOUND PORT AUTHORITY
TIE OFF AND GO DOWN TO THE HOLE AND STARTED COMING UP HE HIM IT WAS THE GUYS FROM 36 THAT
COP THREE CIVILIANS AND FRIEND
OF MINE MICKEY CROSS KNOW HIM WELL
FIRST THINK
YEAH
SO THE PORT AUTHORITY COP COMES OUT
THERE WAS CHIEF THERE TWO CHIEFS DONT EVEN REMEMBER
THESE GUYS WERE DOWN IN THE HOLE
WHERE WERE THESE GUYS ALL THESE GUYS
THE FOURTH FLOOR OF THE NORTH TOWER
WHEN IT CAME DOWN
AND THEY WERE IN THIS HOLE WHERE HE WAS
LOOKING AROUND WHAT CONDITION WERE THEY IN
THE OTHER HOLE WAS 60 FEET DEEP HOW
THE TOWER CAME DOWN IT CAME DOWN ON ITSELF SO
IT WAS JUST PUMMELED INTO THE GROUND HOW THEY SURVIVED HAVE NO IDEA COULDNT BELIEVE IT
MEAN THOUGHT THAT DAY WE WERE GOING TO FIND HUNDREDS AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE
WALKING OUT YOU KNOW WED JUST TAKE THEM OUT

CASSIDY 14
BUT THOSE 10 OR 11 WE FOUND RIGHT THERE THAT WAS IT FOR THAT DAY
WHAT WERE THEY IN WHY WERE THEY
WAITING TO BE RESCUED WERE THEY IN PLACE WHERE YOU HAD TO DIG THEM OUT
THEY NEEDED LIFE SAVING ROPE TO COME DOWN AND GET THEM THEY WERE DOWN THAT FAR THERE WAS NO THEY DIDNT KNOW WHICH WAY WAS UP WHICH WAY WAS DOWN 110 STORIES COMES DOWN ON YOUR HEAD AND YOURE 60 FEET DOWN
THERE
WERE THEY DAZED
OH YEAH
WHAT KIND OF PHYSICAL CONDITION
THEY ARE
SO THEY NEEDED ASSISTANCE TO GET OUT OF
DEFINITELY DEFINITELY IF YOU TALK TO MICKEY THE PORT AUTHORITY COP COMES OUT FIRST THE LIFE SAVING ROPE IS TAUT NOW IM LIKE
COME ON THIS WAY THIS WAY IM JUST LIKE DIRECTING TRAFFIC YOU KNOW GET UP TO THE TOP OF THE GIRDER AGAIN AND NOW ITS TOUGH CLIMB
TO GET TO THE GIRDER
SO USE MY BODY LIKE BRIDGE HE

CASSIDY 15
GETS UP ON MY LEG AND THEN MY SHOULDER AND HES UP ON THE GIRDER HE LIES THERE ON TOP OF THE GIRDER AND HE GIVES ME THE BIGGEST HUG AND HE STARTS CRYING FOR ME IT WAS LIKE ALL RIGHT
NO TIME FOR SENTIMENT YOUVE GOT TO GET GOING YOU WALK THAT WAY
AT THIS POINT NOW THE OFFICER WAS WITH WAS GIVING CALLS FOR THE STOKES BASKET BECAUSE THE CIVILIANS THAT WERE DOWN THERE WERE NOT WALKING OUT SO THE GUYS FORGET WHATEVER SQUADS RESCUES WHOEVER WAS SHOWING UP
SEE THEM OFF IN THE DISTANCE THEYRE LIKE WHO ASKED FOR THE STOKES WAS WAVING OVER
HERE
POINTED TO THE PORT AUTHORITY COP SEE THOSE GUYS WALK THAT WAY OUT THE WAY
THEYRE COMING IN HES LIKE ALL RIGHT HE WALKS OUT UNDER HIS OWN POWER EVERYBODY THAT
GOT OUT THE NEXT GUY THAT CAME OUT
FORGET DONT KNOW WHO THE CHIEF WAS BUT HE
HAD BRASS WHITE SHIRT NICKS AND SCRATCHES BRUISES YOU KNOW MENTALLY NOT WITH IT
TOTALLY
DAZED
MICKEY CROSS IS OKAY

CASSIDY 16
MICKEY WAS THE THIRD GUY TO COME OUT
AT FIRST DIDNT SEE HIM WHEN HE WAS COMING DOWN
THE PILE HE SLID DOWN THE BEAM YOU KNOW GRABBED HIS HAND WHEN HE WAS COMING UP HE LOOKS
UP AND ALL HE HAS IS CUT ON THE TOP OF HIS NOSE ON THE BRIDGE OF HIS NOSE
SAID HEY MICKEY HE JUST LOOKED AT ME HE DIDNT REMEMBER WHO WAS HE SAID
WHICH WAY OUT WHICH WAY OUT THATS WHAT HE SAID JUST POINTED YOU COULD STILL SEE THE
PORT AUTHORITY COP AND THE CHIEF WALKING FOR
WHILE JUST POINTED TO THEM AND FOLLOW THEM
SO HE WALKED TO THEM
THEN THE GUYS FROM 36 CAME OUT NEXT 36
TRUCK THEN WE STARTED RUNNING CIVILIANS OUT THEN THE STOKES CAME IN AT THIS POINT WAS
WEARING SQUAD 18S GEAR SO GUESS THESE GUYS FROM RESCUE NOW AND SQUADS THAT WERE THERE IT
WAS THEIR OPERATION SQUADS AND RESCUES WORK DONT KNOW HAD THIS GEAR ON COME ON
BLAH BLAH BLAH SO MAYBE KEPT IN THE ACTION LITTLE
LONGER
SO WE GOT ALL THE CIVILIANS OUT IN
STOKES WE BROUGHT IN LADDERS TO HELP BECAUSE

CASSIDY 17
THE BEAM THAT WAS GOING UP SO IT WAS SOME MAKESHIFT WAY TO MAKE IT BIT EASIER TO WALK
AROUND
THEN LIKE SAID BUILDING SEVEN WAS IN EMINENT COLLAPSE THEY BLEW THE HORNS THEY SAID EVERYONE CLEAR THE AREA UNTIL WE GOT THAT LAST CIVILIAN OUT WE TRIED TO GIVE ANOTHER QUICK SEARCH WHILE WE COULD BUT THEN THEY WOULDNT LET US STAY ANYMORE
SO WE CLEARED THE AREA OUR STAGING AREA AT THAT POINT WAS ON VESEY IT WAS DOWN ON
VESEY VESEY OFF WEST WE WERE PROBABLY BLOCK UP WEST ON NORTH END AND VESEY BECAUSE
REMEMBER MARINE WAS DOCKED RIGHT UP HERE AND
THEY WERE PUMPING WATER THEY WERE PUMPING LINES OF WATER
WHERE DID YOU FIND THE HOLE WHERE YOU WERE DIGGING FOR MICKEY CROSS AND ALL THESE
PEOPLE ONE
WHEREABOUTS WAS THAT IN THE SITE TOWER
THAT WAS TOWER ONE BUT IT WAS SOMEWHERE IN THE PILE
THE SOUTHEAST END OF TOWER ONE BECAUSE IT WAS LIKE WAS DEAD CENTER AS

CASSIDY 18
SAID REMEMBER LOOKING BACK AND SEEING TWO WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER BEHIND ME
THEN WE SAT ON VESEY AND DOCTORS WERE
COMING AROUND MY EYES WERE JUST EVERYBODYS EYES THAT WAS IN THAT DUST CLOUD WERE KILLING ME SO THE DOCTOR LOOKED AT ME AND WAS LIKE YOU NEED AN EYE WASH WAS YES THEY WASHED MY EYES COUPLE OF TIMES
WE WERE MAKING SURE WE HAD ALL OUR MEMBERS IM NOT SURE IF IT WAS AT THAT POINT WHEN RAN INTO MY COMPANY THINK IT IS
YEAH FIRST WAS JUST SITTING BY MYSELF THEN
FIRST SAW SOMEBODY HERE ANGEL RIVERA SAW HIM HE SAW ME HE CAME OVER AND GAVE ME BIG
HUG AND HE STARTED CRYING DIDNT KNOW ANY BECAUSE WE LOST FIVE GUYS HE WAS WITH THEM HE WAS IN THE MARRIOTT HOTEL WITH THEM HE TOOK OUT TWO CIVILIANS DONT WANT TO BE TELLING
SOMEONE ELSES STORY IF YOU WANT TO TALK TO HIM HE WAS SENIOR GUY ON THE TRUCK AND
THINK HE HAD THE IRONS HE HAD THE CIVILIAN WITH HIM SO WHEN THEY HEARD ANOTHER MAYDAY ON
HIGHER FLOOR IN THE MARRIOTT THEY WERE LIKE WERE GOING FOR THE MAYDAY HE WAS GOING TO GO

CASSIDY 19
WITH THEM HUT THEY WERE LIKE NO YOU HAVE CIVILIAN GET THE CIVILIAN OUT HE DIDNT WANT TO BUT HE DID THAT WAS THE LAST TIME HE SAW THEM SO HE WASNT IN GOOD SHAPE
SO YEAH THEN WE JUST STAYED ON VESEY UNTIL BUILDING SEVEN CAME DOWN THERE WAS
NOTHING WE COULD DO THE FLAMES WERE COMING OUT OF EVERY WINDOW OF THAT BUILDING FROM THE EXPLOSION OF THE SOUTH TOWER SO THEN BUILDING SEVEN DOWN WHEN THAT STARTED COMING DOWN YOU HEARD THAT PANCAKING SOUND AGAIN
EVERYONE JUMPED UP AND STARTS RUNNING WEST TOWARDS THE WATER HEAR SOMEBODY YELL
RUN AND DONT STOP RUNNING IT WASNT HALF AS
HIGH IT WAS ONLY 47 52
40 STORIES YEAH 47 STORIES
LIKE THATS NOTHING 47 STORIES COMING DOWN RIGHT BUT THE DUST CLOUD DIDNT GO AS FAR WEST GUESS IT BLEW WHATEVER PART NORTH AND SOUTH BUT IT CAME DOWN AS FAR AS WEST STREET NOBODY WAS INJURED WITH THAT
SO THAT WAS IT AS SOON AS SEVEN CAME DOWN WE WERE GOING BACK IN GOT TOGETHER WITH
MY COMPANY ENGINE
AND LIEUTENANT WALSH WAS

CASSIDY 20
WORKING WE WENT TO WORK WHERE DID WE GO IM NOT EVEN SURE WHERE WE WENT AFTER THAT THINK WE JUST WENT TO THE BUILDING SEVEN AREA CHECKING AROUND THERE
WAS THERE TILL ABOUT 1030 THAT NIGHT 1100 GOT BACK TO THE FIREHOUSE HERE
AT 12 MIDNIGHT KNOW THAT MY CAPTAIN WAS SURPRISED TO SEE ME BECAUSE WAS ON LIGHT DUTY
MAYBE HE WASNT SURPRISED DONT KNOW BUT CAME WALKING IN THE DOOR WITH EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE COMPANIES SOME RESCUE COMPANY FROM LONG ISLAND OR SOMETHING OR UPSTATE DROPPED US OFF
HE SAW ME DRAG MYSELF IN HEY KNICKKNACK HOW YA DOING
THAT WAS 911 FOR ME
WROTE DOWN ONE QUESTION HERE WHEN
YOU WERE WALKING DOWN VESEY STREET WHEN YOU FIRST GOT THERE AND THREE OF THE GUYS THAT WERE WITH YOU WENT IN TO HELP FIREMAN WITH BROKEN
LEG
CORRECT
HOW DID YOU KNOW HE WAS IN THERE
DID HE CALL TO YOU VERBALLY ON THE RADIO WHAT

SAYING
CASSIDY 21
ANOTHER CIVILIAN CAME RUNNING UP TO US THERES FIREMAN HURT IN HERE
RIGHT
WE ALL WENT IN AT FIRST THE TWO GUYS ONE WENT TO EITHER SIDE OF HIM HE WAS LAYING
DOWN ON THE FLOOR HE STILL HAD ALL HIS BUNKER GEAR ON AND EVERYTHING BUT HE COULDNT WALK ON
HIS LEG IM ASSUMING IT WAS BROKEN
YEAH YEAH YEAH
THE OTHER TWO GUYS PICKED HIM UP AND
THE THIRD GUY JUST GETS BEHIND HIM THAT WAS IT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR ANOTHER STOKES TO PUT HIM
IN WE HAD ALL OUR TOOLS IN THIS ONE THERE WAS BUS UP THE CORNER OF BROADWAY SOMEWHERE AN
AMBULANCE BUT THAT WASNT GOING ANYWHERE THAT WAS BURIED WE WERE ABLE TO GRAB THE STOKES FROM
IT THEY GRABBED THE STOKES PUT HIM IN THAT AND THEN THEY CARRIED HIM AWAY
NOT TO SAY WE WERENT WAITING BUT WE WERENT WE HAD OTHER THINGS ON OUR MINDS
WHY WAS BUILDING SEVEN ON FIRE WAS THAT FLAMING DEBRIS FROM TOWER TWO
FROM TOWER TWO
THAT FELL ONTO THAT BUILDING AND LIT

IT ON FIRE CORRECT
CASSIDY 22
BECAUSE IT REALLY GOT GOING THAT BUILDING SEVEN SAW IT LATE IN THE DAY AND
LIKE THE FIRST SEVEN FLOORS WERE ON FIRE IT LOOKED LIKE HEAVY FIRE ON SEVEN FLOORS
IT WAS FULLY ENGULFED THAT WHOLE BUILDING THERE WERE PIECES OF TOWER TWO IN BUILDING SEVEN AND THE CORNERS OF THE BUILDING MISSING AND WHATNOT BUT JUST LOOKING UP AT IT FROM GROUND LEVEL HOWEVER MANY STORIES IT WAS
40 SOME ODD YOU COULD SEE THE FLAMES GOING STRAIGHT THROUGH FROM ONE SIDE OF THE BUILDING TO THE OTHER THATS AN ENTIRE BLOCK
WONDER WHAT WAS BURNING IN THERE WHAT DO YOU THINK WAS BURNING ITS AN OFFICE BUILDING THERES NOT LOT OF WOOD IN THERE
YOU FIGURE THAT JET FUEL THAT
EXPLOSION THAT HIT EVERYTHING JUST CAME OUT REMEMBER THAT EXPLOSION IT WAS MASSIVE THAT
FIREBALL THAT JET FUEL JUST
IT WAS JET FUEL YEAH THAT MUST HAVE
BEEN WHERE IT LANDED THATS PROBABLY WHERE LOT OF THE JET FUEL WENT

XMP BODYHTML
THANK
GOOD
CASSIDY 23
IT HAD
THATS
CHIEF MALKIN ITS 1203 HOURS
FIREMAN CASSIDY FOR THIS INTERVIEW
25000 GALLON TANK THINK IT HAD TO GO SOMEWHERE
ALL RIGHT IS THAT ABOUT IT YEAH
THERE WAS NOBODY ELSE IN THE ROOM DURING THIS INTERVIEW THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW
File No. 9110414
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER DEREK BROGAN
   Interview Date:  December 28, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
D. BROGAN 2
          LIEUTENANT CHIAFARI:  Today's date is
     December 28, 2001.  The time is 6:55 p.m.,
     and this is Lieutenant Joseph Chiafari of
     the safety command of the New York City Fire
     Department.  I am conducting an interview
     with Derek Brogan, firefighter of Engine 5
     of the New York City Fire Department,
     regarding the events of September 11th.
     Q.   Derek, I'll ask you to state your name,
unit and tell us what took place on that day.
     A.   My name is Derek Brogan, assigned to
Engine 5.
          We went out of the box about 8:30, at
Irving and 19th Street.  Food on the stove.  As
we were taken up from the box, we were backing
out of 19th Street, and we heard a plane go over
our heads.  So me and the backup man, Jimmy
Andruzzi, looked at each other.  We realized it
was low.  We actually mentioned it to each other.
We continued backing out into the street.  Just a
minute later our officer told us that a plane had
hit the Trade Center and that we were going on
the second alarm.
          As we were going there, we heard the
D. BROGAN 3
10-60 transmitted.  Going down 14th Street, we
started looking down the avenues and saw a lot of
fire down there.  We mentioned to each other that
we had to stay together and this was going to be
probably the biggest disaster we've ever seen.
          So we continued down to West Street and
made a left turn, getting a better look at the
tower.  We knew that we had to go there and try
and help the people out.
          We parked by the Verizon building.  All
the members got off the rig.  We all grabbed
extra cylinders.  Manny Delvalle was with us.  He
had the door position.  He didn't take a roll-up;
the chauffeur took a roll-up.  He figured he was
just going to park the rig on a hydrant and took
off for the building.
          We got in the lobby.  I believe either
the lieutenant or Captain Atlas from 10 Engine
came up to us when we got in the lobby and said
that we were to team up together, 10 Engine and 5
Engine.  We thought that was strange.  We thought
they would be up there already.
          Just as everyone was starting to walk
towards the center stair, which was the only
D. BROGAN 4
stair we thought led up to the upper floors, we
heard the next plane hit the other building.  We
looked out the windows at the reflection on the
Financial Center and saw the fire plume coming
down.
          Then we really didn't know what we were
up against.  We were kind of hoping that it was
an accident at the time for the first tower.  But
once the other building got hit, we realized that
it wasn't an accident anymore.
          We started marching up the stairs.  I'm
not positive about what floors it was, but we
took a break on like 10 for a few minutes.  All
the people were coming down, they were very calm.
They would yell from a couple floors up that
there was a burn victim coming down, and everyone
plastered themselves up against the wall and the
burn victim would come down.  It was amazing to
see that they were actually smiling that they
were almost down the stairs.
          Maybe about the 13th floor I started
having chest pains.  I remember now what it was
from.  I had crossed my extra cylinder over from
one side to the other side.  I felt a tear go
D. BROGAN 5
across, but in the chaos of what was happening I
never put two and two together.
          So we stopped for a few minutes, got
some water.  I felt better.  I started walking
back up the stairs, got to 19, and I had chest
pains again.  So we stopped.  The lieutenant was
going to leave me there with a couple of other
guys to go back down.  But I started feeling
better, and we went up again, to the 23rd floor.
          There the chest pain was getting very
irritating.  They called mayday for somebody to
come up and give us oxygen, because there was
myself and two guys from 9 Truck there.  The guy
from 9 Truck was yelling that he couldn't feel his
arms.
          So the Port Authority ESU cops came up.
They gave us some oxygen.  There was an FBI guy I
think on that floor or one of the floors just
below it as we were walking up.  He told us the
Pentagon got hit and the other tower got hit.  He
misinformed us by telling us that NYU Hospital
got hit.  I remember him saying that to me.  And
he said, "We still have four planes in the air,
and we don't know where they are."
D. BROGAN 6
          We were in an outer office on the 23rd
floor on the southeast corner, which I guess
faces tower two.  Then we felt the rumble.  You
just heard this noise that sounded like the
subway train going by but magnified by a
thousand.
          When we heard that noise, we just all
got up.  We didn't bother to look out the window.
We just made an exit out of that room.  We got to
9 Truck.  I remember them yelling that we had to
close the doors behind us.  We closed the doors
behind us, and I went to go back in the stairwell
and there wasn't any room in the stairwell.  It
was loaded with people.
          So myself and a guy named Schroder from
10 Engine went down the hallway and found a
closet, and we darted into the closet.  We were
in there maybe five to ten seconds.  Then we
heard a knock on the door.  We opened the door.
At that time the lights went out and the whole
place just was -- you couldn't see anything.
Dust, smoke, whatever it was.
          Outside was a Port Authority cop.  We
dragged him in with us.  We couldn't get him
D. BROGAN 7
all the way in the room because he was laying on
the floor and his leg was hanging outside of the
doorway.  This wind came down the hallway and
blew the doors open that were in that office that
we were in.  I remember me yelling that his ankle
was getting crushed outside the door.
          That subsided after about 20, 30
seconds.  The rumbling was still there, but the
wind was gone.  We opened the door.  We yelled
outside where 5 Engine was, because you couldn't
see anything.  They said they were here.  They
just kept on yelling.  We found them in the
stairwell.
          We went down with a number of
civilians, maybe like nine or ten civilians and
maybe four Port Authority cops, it seemed.  We
were all carrying people and sharing our masks
with them.
          As we got back in the stairwell, we
didn't know whether we were going up or going
down.  But the rumbling was so intense that we
didn't really know what had happened.  We just
assumed that our building had been hit by another
plane.
D. BROGAN 8
          The officer just looked at all of us
and said, "That's it.  We're getting out of here.
We're done.  We're of no use to anybody here.
We've got to get these people out."
          So we started going down the stairs.
It was a real slow haul down the stairs.  We got
to the fourth floor, and the stairwell was filled
with rubble.  We couldn't go down that stairway
anymore.  So we went out into the hallway through
the fourth floor, and the officer again yelled
that we have to look for windows.  Maybe we could
blow out a window and just get fresh air from a
window, whatever it was that was in his mind.
          We went down the hallway, couldn't find
the windows.  Then we heard him yelling, "Anyone
in the stairwell, go to the lobby."  We followed
his voice back to the stairwell, went down the
four floors, and we had lost another member from
Engine 5.  We had lost Gerard Gorman.
          We had lost Manny Delvalle on the way
up the stairs.  We saw him on maybe the first or
second floor, and then when we stopped on ten, we
posted a guy at the door and he just never passed
us.  But he was carrying an oxygen bottle.
D. BROGAN 9
Instead of carrying a roll-up, he had the EMS
oxygen bottle.
          Our thoughts are that he might have
stopped to help one of the civilians that came
down that was burned.  That's kind of what we
hoped he had done, because that would probably
have put him back in the street.
          We had lost Gorman, so we waited down
at the lobby.  We came down the center stair and
were waiting in the lobby, yelling up the stairs
for him to come down.  He wasn't coming down the
stairs, and there wasn't anybody else coming down
the stairs.  Our officer told us that he saw
Lieutenant Donnelly on the down the stairs.  He's
from 3 Truck.  But I don't remember seeing him
even, he vividly remembers seeing him and trying
to make him come with us.
          We waited in the lobby probably about a
minute, and then the officer just told us that we
have to cut our losses and try to find our way
out, because you couldn't see anything.  There
was gas leaking all over the place.  The marble
was falling on top of us.
          So we proceeded to go to West Street,
D. BROGAN 10
pretty much the same place we came in.  There was
no windows in the lobby when we showed up, and
there was no windows in the lobby when we were
leaving.
          We went to step outside the window, and
we caught a figure.  I don't know -- I remember
his face, but I don't remember what he was
wearing, whether he was a fireman or a cop or a
civilian.  He was probably about 50 yards away
from us.
          He just started yelling, "Come on."  He
was looking up at the building and waving his
hand at us.  So we went to walk outside the
window.  Just as we stepped out, he started
saying, "Stop, stop, stop."  That's when all the
bodies -- I don't know how many bodies, but a
bunch of bodies came down at that specific time.
It looked like it was raining bodies.
          After about ten seconds, he just
started screaming, "Now you've got to run."  We
ran and ran and ran and we got onto West Street,
and we started walking, looking for the rig.  I
couldn't find the rig, which was only parked a
block up.
D. BROGAN 11
          We looked back at the building, and the
dust had already settled from tower two falling
down, but we were blocked from the view.  We
didn't know what had happened.  So we look at our
tower and just assumed it was still standing.  So
we didn't know whether to go back in or not.
          The guy just started screaming at us
again, "It's coming down.  It's coming down."  We
just took off.  We couldn't find the rig.  Me and
Jimmy Andruzzi got split up.  I went up and I
tried to jump on the back of an ambulance that
was going north up West Street, but it only went
ten feet and stopped in traffic.  So I got off of
that.
          I started running up West Street.  I
still had my mask on and looking back at the
cloud that was coming behind us.  A clear burst
of air came right before the dust cloud came and
blew my mask off my shoulders.  I just kept on
running.
          I found a girl on West Street talking
on a cell phone like nothing had happened.  I
just grabbed her under the arm and went up to
Stuyvesant High School and sat down there.
D. BROGAN 12
That's pretty much where the dust cloud finished.
          From there I saw a guy from Cabrini
that works in the Cabrini ambulances that is
familiar with us because we went with him all the
time.  He just said, "What's the matter with
you?"  I said, "I have chest pains."  He put me
in the ambulance.  We went to Cabrini.  They did
an EKG.  Everything was fine.  They told me it
was a pulled muscle under my chest.
          They gave me my -- well, first on 19th
Street they decontaminated me with a garden hose,
stripped all my clothes off in the middle of 19th
Street.  After they did the EKG, they just gave
my clothes back and sent me back to the
firehouse.
          I came back, called the division to
tell them that I was back here, and they sent me
around to all the neighboring hospitals around
here to start writing up lists of who was in the
hospital, who was admitted, who was treated, who
was released.
          That's basically all there is about it
that I remember.
     Q.   Good.  What was the highest floor you
had gone up to?
     A.   23.
D. BROGAN 13
     Q.   23.  Do you recall how long it took you
to get up there in terms of time?  Can you
estimate from the time you left the lobby to how
long to get up there?
     A.   I never really looked at the time line
in the face of that.  We were in the lobby when
the second plane hit, and we were on the 23rd
floor when the other building collapsed.  Was
that an hour?  I'm not positive.
     Q.   It was close to an hour.
     A.   Yeah.  It was a very hard walk up.
     Q.   Actually when you got to the 23rd
floor, you actually went out on the floor itself.
     A.   Right.  That's where we left to get
some relief from going up the stairwell.  That's
when the chest pains set in, and that's when they
called a mayday.  They came up within three
minutes.  They gave me oxygen.  Within two
minutes of giving me oxygen is when the other
building fell.
     Q.   When the other building fell, then, it
was the dust and debris from the other building
D. BROGAN 14
that wound up on your floor?
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   Had the windows, I guess, blown?
     A.   There were no safety lights.  Nothing
went on.
     Q.   It was total darkness now up there?
     A.   Total darkness, yeah.  We just happened
to be with two guys from 9 Truck which we know.
They're right down the street from us.  So we
teamed up with them for a little bit, and they
went a separate way and went down a rear
staircase, and we went down the staircase that
we're familiar with.  We went down that one and
got to the fourth floor.
     Q.   You've since seen those two guys from 9
Truck?
A. Yes.
     Q.   Did you hear anything unusual on the
radio or you weren't wearing a radio that day?
You had the nozzle position; correct?
     A.   Yes.  I didn't have a radio.  I didn't
hear any maydays for anyone to come out.  I do
remember a guy from 10 Engine trying to find his
officer.  I don't know if he was the control man
D. BROGAN 15
or backup man or whoever had the radio over
there.
          I remember the officer saying that he
was on the 43rd floor to come on up, and they
were coming up with us.  I guess it might be a
little easier going up without a roll-up, so he
was making good headway on the stairs.
          The staircase we were in, we were only
taking two or three steps and stopping, two or
three more steps and stopping.  As you got higher
up, maybe for the first nine or ten floors, you
were sailing right up the stairs.  But then as
you got more into the heart of the building I
guess where more of the population was, it was
harder to get up the stairs.
     Q.   I assume there were people coming down
the stairs at the same time you were going up?
     A.   There were a lot of people coming down
the stairs.  It never ceased.
     Q.   Do you remember what stairway
designation it was, by chance?
     A.   I believe it was C, which was the
center of the building that we went up.  We might
have went up that staircase to about 14 or 15.
D. BROGAN 16
Then we just couldn't make it up that stairway
anymore, and we left to I think B, which would be
on the southeast corner and went up that stair.
That's where we got up to the 19th floor first
and then the 23rd floor after that.
     Q.   So the original staircase you did take,
that was the one that was blocked around the
fourth floor level?
     A.   No.  From what I believe, there's only
one staircase that goes to the lobby of that
building.  The other staircases go to the sky
lobby or the promenade or whatever that level is
called.  We went right up the center staircase in
the core of the building where the elevators
were, and we went right up there.
          When we were coming back down, we were
coming back down the southeast staircase, which I
think was B.  I'm not positive it was B.  I guess
the rubble had come up and gone through the
windows of the lobby and then to the staircase
and just knocked it out.  That was the rubble
that was blocking our path to get down.
          Which actually the guy that they were
calling for, Gerard Gorman, found his way down
D. BROGAN 17
that staircase with a couple guys from 20 Truck.
I guess it wasn't as cluttered as we thought.  We
just had the lead guy in front of us yelled back
there's no more stairs, they're all gone.
          So in the darkness we believed
everything we heard.  I was sharing my mask by
putting it on people's faces.  Gerard Gorman was
sharing his mask by purging it.  So maybe with
that loud hissing noise going on, he didn't hear
that we were getting off at the fourth floor.
          That's the only thing I can imagine,
that we were all close together, but we couldn't
see anything.  You would have to really get down
like eight, nine inches from the floor just to
see the glow-in-the-dark strip that was on the
staircase to find out where the last stair was on
the landing so you could make the turn.
     Q.   Any people you had seen prior to going
up the stairs in the lobby that you know are not
around today or any people you saw on the upper
floors that did not make it through this?
     A.   We didn't see 33 Engine, which we
thought we would see.  We didn't see any familiar
faces, no familiar faces.  We teamed up with 10
D. BROGAN 18
Engine, and that's who we stuck with all the way
up.
          I remember asking a number of people
while we were going up, the civilians that were
coming down, what floors they were coming from,
how high up they were.  I don't remember hearing
anybody from like above the 60th floor.
          We had the mind-set that we were going
to the 80th floor for some reason.  I guess I
just overheard that in the lobby, that we were
going to 80.  In hindsight, it was higher than
80, tower one.  But I remember on the way up we
were counting floors.  We stopped on a certain
floor like 10, we've got 70 more to go; 20, we've
got 60 more to go.
          I really don't know what we would have
done when we got up there, but we were trying to
get up there.  We even started dropping our stuff
to see if we could have the companies that were
further up, leave their stuff and come back down.
We would just go without our rollups.
          I was even thinking we would switch
bunker gear with them, trying with what company
you have to go as far as you can, go with a
D. BROGAN 19
chain.  But I really don't know if that would
have been (inaudible).
          When we were a couple blocks away from
the building, we heard the noise coming down.  It
was just like dominos only it was probably going
faster and faster and faster.  Then you just
couldn't see anything.
     Q.   This is the second collapse?
     A.   This is the second collapse.
     Q.   Do you remember your exact positioning,
where exactly it was when you started to run at
that point?
     A.   We were just beyond the Verizon
building, which I think the Verizon building is
the north side of Vesey Street.
     Q.   North side of Vesey, yes.
     A.   So we were just a block beyond that.
     Q.   So actually on West Street, though?
     A.   On West Street.  Luckily that's the way
we responded, so that's the way we started going
to leave.  Had we come in from the south side, we
would have tried to go south and wouldn't have
been able to go south.  I don't remember seeing
the other building laying in the street as we
D. BROGAN 20
came out, but I don't remember the giant dust
cloud from the other building either.
          I saw that guy that was 50 yards away
that was waving us out of the building.  When
tower one fell down, I don't think we would have
been able to see 50 yards with the dust cloud
that came from that.
          I only remember seeing the two guys
from 9 Truck.  Other guys they said they remember
hearing 3 Truck giving maydays, having gotten a
radio at that point.  We were just preoccupied
with trying to carry some people and hopefully
trying to find our way out.
          There were a number of times we didn't
think we were going to make it out.  You thought
when we got off the 23rd floor, that was it, you
were clear.
          The chest pains, I thought it was a
heart attack.  I had never had any heart attack
before, so you really don't know what it's
supposed to feel like.  But it didn't feel good.
          When the fourth floor was blocked, I
thought that our luck had run out there.  When we
got to the lobby, I thought our luck had run out
D. BROGAN 21
there.  Then when the bodies came down when we
were leaving the building, I certainly thought
that was our last chance.
          I would estimate we were out of the
building maybe two minutes before it fell down.
So in that little time line, I think it took us
between 20 and 25 minutes to come down from the
23rd floor, which is a long time.  It seems like
two minutes, but it was a long time.
     Q.   Sure.
          Any recollection of any talk of the
elevators before you went up the stairs?  You
were in the stairwell, of course, but any talk of
the elevators?
     A.   Someone did mention in the lobby about
the elevators, but it was quickly dispelled.  The
elevators aren't working.  The elevators aren't
working.
          I do remember seeing Joe Malone from
Battalion 6 as we were walking in the battalion
rig was parked on the east side of West Street by
the center divider in the street.  He waved to us
and told us to be careful upstairs.  He's gone
now.
D. BROGAN 22
          I don't remember seeing Chief
Williamson that was with him, but I remember
seeing Joe standing in the street at the back of
the rig, waving to us.
          Until the second plane hit, we really
thought it was an accident.  We didn't put
together it was the clearest day, one of the
clearest days I've ever had.  We didn't put
together that that plane went over our head until
when we actually were told that another plane had
hit.
          I didn't know until I got to Cabrini
Hospital that another plane had hit the other
building, that it was actually a plane.  When
they were decontaminating me, I thought maybe it
was something a little more sinister, you know,
because they wouldn't tell me anything.  They
just told me --
     Q.   Of course.  You go by sounds or what
you hear.  It's like not knowing exactly what's
going on.
     A.   They were just telling me that I was
exposed, and I didn't know what I was exposed to.
I was just hopeful.  When I heard it was another
D. BROGAN 23
plane, I was actually kind of relieved that
that's all it was.
          I do remember questioning myself,
transferring from Staten Island to Manhattan.
     Q.   A lot different, huh?  A high-rise
building as opposed to a two- or three-story
building.
     A.   I transferred here.
     Q.   Anything else of importance that you
feel is necessary to add to this interview?
     A.   The evacuation of the people seemed
pretty orderly coming out.  I don't know if I
would have been that orderly if I was running out
of the building and I had the recollection of
what happened in '93.  They were definitely
organized.  Nobody was pushing, shoving.
          There was no emergency lights.  There
was no intercom system in the building that I
remember hearing.  If you read the papers, they
said that they were announcing to get out of the
building.  I don't remember hearing any intercom
system remarking that the other tower got hit or
they were evacuating tower one.  None of that.
None of the emergency lights worked.
D. BROGAN 24
          They should have had more staircases
going to the lobby, because when you come out at
that promenade level and you have to walk outside
in between the buildings, and there was no one
between the buildings.
          That's about it.  I really don't recall
much else.  I really didn't recall much when I
came out of there.  It's just bullshit sessions
that we had in the basement that triggered your
mind to remember what happened.  Just the guys
talking to each other was a great asset to try
and piece this together and figure out that we
were just as much victims as everybody that was
in the building.  We didn't have a chance to do
anything.  We didn't have a chance to put the
fire out, which was really all we were trying to
do.
     Q.   That's all we can.
     A.   I don't recall anything else.
     Q.   That's all.  It's what you remember,
basically, on that fateful day.
     A.   Yeah.
          LIEUTENANT CHIAFARI:  So the time is
     now 7:18, and this concludes the interview
D. BROGAN 25
that we have this evening with Firefighter
Brogan.
File No. 9110415
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER RONALD CIFU
   Interview Date:  December 28, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
R. CIFU 2
          LIEUTENANT CHIAFARI:  Today's date is
     December 28, 2001.  The time is 5:05 in the
     afternoon.  This is Lieutenant Joseph
     Chiafari of the Safety Command, and I am
     here today conducting the interview with
     Firefighter Ronnie Cifu of Engine Company 16
     regarding the events of September the 11th,
     2001.
     Q.   Ronnie, state your name and your
company and describe for us what had taken place
on September the 11th.
     A.   My name is Ronald Cifu of Engine 16.
          September 11th I was working the day
tour.  I got here a little early.  About 8:45 the
run came in.  I heard a plane had hit the World
Trade Center, and I kind of figured that we were
going to be going.  So I got on the rig and
turned the radio on.  I was listening to it on
the radio.  Right away the box was transmitted,
and they sent us initially.
          From here I got on the FDR Drive and
headed south from 29th Street.  I made good time.
Once I got past the Brooklyn Bridge, I was able
to get a good look at the towers.  There was an
R. CIFU 3
incredible amount of fire, at least ten floors as
far as I could see.
          From there I was debating on which
route to go.  I got down to Battery Park, and I
decided not to go through the tunnel, underneath
the battery and out onto West Street.  I got off,
and I think I went up State Street to Church.  I
went up Church and made a left turn onto Liberty,
but there was too much civilians and traffic on
Liberty.  So I backed out, and that's when the
second plane hit.
          I heard an explosion, and the guys got
off the rig to back me out.  Then the debris
started falling.  We got hit with a lot of debris
on Church and Liberty.  I continued north on
Church, and I made a left turn on Barclay.  I
went down Barclay, took a hydrant over there.  We
all got off the rig.
          I walked to the Trade Center through
the plaza onto West Street.  I was with the
members of Engine 16.  The officer and the
members went into the building, and I started
helping the other MVOs supplying water to the
building.
R. CIFU 4
          We had the north corner of the north
tower.  There was a Siamese connection there.  We
had that supplied.  There was a Siamese
connection on the south corner of the north
tower, and we had that supplied.  We were
relaying water from across the street to one
pumper to the Siamese.
          Once we had the building supplied with
water and all the other chauffeurs were doing
pretty okay and everybody was hooked up, I was
plotting my next move.  My next move, I was
thinking about going into the building and down
to the basement and maybe starting the fire pumps
or checking with the engineers.
          That's when the first person jumped.  I
was on West Street.  I backed up a little bit.
Then another person jumped.  There had to be at
least 15 people that just jumped in the amount of
like ten minutes.  The time was around 9:15, 9:20
at that point.
          When I first got there, there were a
lot of maydays and urgent messages.  One of the
messages I heard was we lost an elevator, and
then there was a second message that we lost
R. CIFU 5
another elevator.
          As the operation continued, there was a
lot of debris falling.  As the people were
jumping, I kept on backing up onto West Street
and heading a little north.  I was sort of like
underneath that north bridge.
          As all the debris was falling, I think
that's when the south tower started to collapse.
I remember a lot of people running, and I looked
back and I just thought it was more debris.
People were running past me.  So I continued to
run with them, and I was running north on West
Street.  I turned around and I saw the dust
cloud.  Before you know it, that caught up to me
and I was engulfed in that.
          Then I was crawling on West Street.  I
was worried I was going to get hit with part of
the building or somebody was going to run me
over.  Sure enough, there was a police car and he
was running north with his lights on, and he was
crashing into the wall, the divider wall, which
he kind of had me pinned up against.  And then I
jumped up onto the grass, and I started crawling
along the grass.
R. CIFU 6
          The dust continued.  It was completely
black.  I would say that lasted about 10, 15
minutes.  Once that cleared, I kind of went and
regrouped with a couple of the other chauffeurs.
I got back up on my feet and went back to my rig.
I pulled my rig a little closer.  I hooked up.
We were trying to keep some of the dust down.  We
had a couple of the stangs going to try to keep
some of the dust down.
          I wasn't really sure if there was a
collapse.  I thought it might have been a partial
collapse, maybe just the top floors.
          As far as water, I'm not sure if we had
enough water into the building.  We could have
used a little bit more.  I'm thinking that maybe
the plane severed the standpipe system itself.
          That was about 15, 20 minutes after all
that took place, and another 10 minutes after
that -- it was about 30 minutes between
buildings -- then the second building came down.
I remember seeing the top floor, about five or
six floors, pushed out and to the west, and then
the whole building came down.
          Then it was the same scenario all over
R. CIFU 7
again.  I started running up West Street.  This
time I got behind one of the rigs and just waited
for the dust to clear.  Most of the dust cleared.
Then I got dusted off.  I regrouped with a couple
of guys.
          That was pretty much it for me for the
day.  I was kind of like knocked out of the
kitchen.  At that point they pushed everybody
north up to Chambers Street to the staging area,
and they weren't letting anybody back towards the
fire.
          I remember seeing companies.  I
remember seeing rescue, Rescue 1.  I remember
seeing 3 Truck, Ladder 2.  That was the last time
I saw them.  I remember hearing Ladder 7 on the
radio, on the handy talkies.  I couldn't get a
clear picture as to what they were saying.  They
just seemed to be checking in with one another.
That was the last time I heard Ladder 7, and that
was before the collapse.
          That's about it.
     Q.   Do you recall who from Ladder 7 you
heard on the radio, the voice?
     A.   No.  I heard the officer maybe the OV,
R. CIFU 8
or the roof.  They were all kind of like checking
in with one another.
     Q.   As far as the companies that you said
you saw like Ladder 2, Ladder 3, did you see them
in the street?  Did you see them in a particular
part of --
     A.   I saw Ladder 3 in the plaza between
like Barclay and the World Trade plaza.  They
were just heading in.  I saw Ladder 2 heading
south on West Street.  Rescue 1, I remember
seeing them on West Street.  That was all before
the first collapse.
     Q.   You mentioned about hooking up to the
Siamese on the north side of Vesey Street?
A. Yeah.
     Q.   Do you recall which apparatus it was
hooked into?
     A.   No.  It might have been 1 Engine
supplying that.  I don't remember which rigs it
was.  But we had the building covered.  We had
all the Siamese connected.
     Q.   Just waiting to be used, if it was ever
used.
A. Yeah.
R. CIFU 9
     Q.   Did you go in the building at all at
any point?
     A.   No, no.  I started walking towards the
building.  I was thinking about going in,
checking with the engineers, and something told
me that's just not a good idea.  I turned around.
That's when people started jumping.  I just
backed off from there.
     Q.   All right.  Anything else you feel of
importance that you need to add?
     A.   I think the standpipe system itself
might have been severed, so I don't know if the
standpipes were ever used.  If they were, I don't
think we had a good supply of water.  I don't
think we had a good supply of water from the
hydrants.  It seemed like we were getting -- the
pressure was just dropping as we used all the
hydrants in the area.
          The water pressure seemed to be a
problem.  It was just the more hydrants you were
using, the less pressure you were getting and you
just couldn't supply.
          Even after the collapse when we were
starting to relay water to the car fires and
R. CIFU 10
stuff like that, we just couldn't get the water.
I think that was a big problem.
     Q.   Do you recall what you were operating,
what pressure you had, what you were drawing from
the hydrant from the operating panel?
     A.   The hydrant pressure was down to like
maybe five, ten pounds, and we were losing water.
I noticed that at a couple of different
locations.  Towards the end of the operation,
they were relying on the boats supplying water
from the river.
     Q.   This is later on?  This is after the
collapses had taken place?  This is when they
were trying to control fires that were taking
place around the surrounding area?
     A.   Right.  Even when I went down there a
week later, it was the same problem.  We just
couldn't get any pressure out of the hydrants.
     Q.   You weren't aware of the pressure of
the hydrants before the collapses, though?
     A.   No, no.  I was just stretching lines
and making connections between the chauffeurs.
     Q.   Very good.  All right.  Anything else?
     A.   I don't think so.
R. CIFU 11
     LIEUTENANT CHIAFARI:  This concludes
now the interview with Firefighter Cifu.
The time is now 5:17.
</XMP></BODY></HTML>
File No. 9110416
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER TIMOTHY MARMION
   Interview Date:  December 28, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
T. MARMION 2
          LIEUTENANT CHIAFARI:  The time is now
     4:20 in the afternoon.  This is an interview
     with Firefighter Tim Marmion, M-A-R-M-I-O-N,
     from Engine Company 16 of the New York City
     Fire Department.  I am Lieutenant Joseph
     Chiafari of the Safety Command conducting an
     interview with the following individual.
     Q.   Okay, Tim, can you state your name and
describe for me the events taking place on
September 11th, 2001.
     A.   My name is Tim Marmion from Engine 16.
I worked night tour the night before on Monday
the 10th.  I was scheduled to work the day tour
on the 11th.
          We got the call at about I guess 10 to
9.  We came down to the Trade Center.  When I got
on the rig, one of the guys told me -- I had been
in the rack before that working the night before.
We had a pretty rough night, so since I was in
the rack, I wouldn't have been aware of anything
going on.
          The guy told me -- what I heard on the
voice alarm was explosion in the Trade Center.
When I got on the rig and started down there, a
T. MARMION 3
guy told me a plane had hit.  At that time they
thought it was a small plane.
          We proceeded down the FDR Drive.  You
could see the Trade Center from there.  At that
time I realized it was more than a small plane, a
bigger aircraft, because you could see the fire
and the size of the hole in the side.  You knew
it was much bigger than the guy thought it was.
          We arrived underneath the Trade Center
at about 9:00.  We went to move the rig.  We
tried to make a turn.  We couldn't make the turn.
So we got out and repositioned the rig.  As soon
as we got back in the rig, that's when the second
plane hit.  We proceeded around the corner, and I
believe we parked an Vesey Street.
          We walked around into the lobby where
the command center was.  There was Commissioner
Von Essen, Chief Feehan, I believe Ganci was
there, and I'm sure Mykal Judge was there.  There
was a bunch of guys standing there.  Those were
the only people I saw in the lobby besides
building personnel.  There were no firemen in the
lobby.
          They told us we were with 1 Engine.  1
T. MARMION 4
Engine arrived a few minutes later, and they told
us to take three rollups and a standpipe kit up
between the two companies so we could piggyback
them up there, switching on and off every six
floors or so, taking a breath in between.  As far
as I know, they told us to proceed up as high as
possible to see what was going on up there.
          We started up.  About every six floors
or so we would switch on and off with the
rollups.  There was a steady stream of civilians
coming down.  There was a steady stream of
firemen and a few cops scattered in there going
up.  It was orderly, both sides.
          We got up to the 22nd floor.  We used
that as a rest area.  The officers went to find a
command center they had heard about which I think
eventually wasn't one of our command centers; it
was a Port Authority command center that was on
that floor.
          At that time is when the other tower
fell.  We were in the tower by West Street.  I
believe that's tower number one.  So at that time
the tower number two collapsed.  We were on the
22nd floor.  We waited for the officers to get
T. MARMION 5
back and regrouped.
          The building shook.  The lights went
out.  There was some discussion about continuing
up or to leave the building.  I had heard on a
radio that somebody else was wearing standing
next to me, "Evacuate the building."
          We had a brief discussion.  I was told
that they meant the civilians.  I felt at 10:30
they weren't trying to evacuate civilians.  The
civilians were leaving at a quarter to 9 when the
first plane struck.  It was a foregone conclusion
that they were leaving the building.
          At that time when they told people to
evacuate -- that was the word I heard,
"evacuate" -- they were talking about us, get
out.  I believe the officer of 1 Engine tried to
call down to the lobby just to verify that.
Whether or not he got through, I'm not sure.  I'm
assuming he did, because then he turned around
and told us to get down.
          We proceeded down.  I made sure that
all the guys in our company were ahead of me and
they were starting out.  We proceeded down, it
was an orderly evacuation, people leaving the
T. MARMION 6
building at that point.  Everybody was leaving at
that time.  There was very few, if anybody, going
up at that point.
          Around the 10th or 11th floor was where
I saw the large black woman that 6 Truck had
encountered.  There were at least 10 or 12
firemen ahead of me that had asked the woman if
she wanted help down.  There was a security guard
from the building, a Port Authority cop or
someone with plain clothes and with a gun.  He
was adamant that he had her, he would take care
of her.
          So we continued on down.  The next
floor there was a woman on a stretcher that was
being carried by a civilian.  A couple of
fireman, myself included, relieved those people
on that stretcher and carried her down the
remainder.
          I met a couple of the other firemen
that were at the bottom of the stairs waiting
there for me, and we took the stretcher from
there and brought it out to an ambulance.
          As far as I know, there was no smoke
condition in the lobby at that time.  I thought
T. MARMION 7
the command center was still being manned.  I
don't know if that's true at this point.  There
were people over there.  I assumed it was the
same people that I had left earlier, probably an
hour, before.  That might not be the case.  I'm
told that Ganci and Feehan and those guys went
across the street, actually by that time.
          We took the person out.  We put her in
an ambulance that was parallel with the Trade
Center on West Street.  We proceeded to walk
north on West Street.  We were out of the
building a couple minutes, less than five, I
would think, I was told, and the building started
to come down.  We ran up West Street.
          We regrouped again, got all the guys
together.  Eventually we dove into one of those
buildings that were there to get out of the
smoke.  You could feel the smoke and the heat
from where the building hit the ground.  We
regrouped and just waited in the staging area.
          We wanted to go back.  I told them that
we had lost our lieutenant.  We didn't know where
he was.  Also our truck wasn't heard from in
quite some time, and we wanted to know where they
T. MARMION 8
were.  Nobody really had any information at that
point.
          Pretty much the rest of the day we just
searched the perimeter looking for these people.
Eventually our officer who had lagged behind
somewhat, he told us that he climbed out of the
building.  He was in that area with 6 Truck and
that woman.
          He was in that area with several
others -- a couple chiefs and other various
people.  He had climbed out two or three hours
later.  I actually didn't see him until probably
9 or 10 or clock that night when he came back to
the firehouse.  We got back about 8:00.
          The rest of the day was just us sitting
in a staging area.  They told us we couldn't go
back in.  That's about it.
     Q.   Okay, Tim.  You mentioned the 22nd
floor.  Do you recall what amount of time it took
you to get from the lobby to the 22nd floor?
     A.   If you could tell me what time that
building collapsed.
     Q.   The other tower collapsed approximately
like 5 after 10.
T. MARMION 9
     A.   So we were on the scene for an hour at
that point.  It probably took us 45 minutes to
get up there, I would think.  I would think at
about a quarter after 9 we started up.  So if
that happened a little after 10, I would think 45
minutes.
     Q.   45 minutes?
          Do you recall what stairway designation
that you took up?
     A.   The stairway probably close to West
Street on that side of the building, next to one
of the elevator banks.  They also told us to stay
away from the elevator banks, that they were
coming down.
     Q.   Yeah, they were afraid of them
collapsing.
     A.   I don't remember any of the companies
that were up there on the floor with us aside
from 1 Engine.  The 1 Engine officer, by the way
didn't make it out.  He perished.  I don't know
if he lagged behind getting guys down, trying to
get as many down as possible.  He didn't make it
out.
     Q.   Okay.  Very good.  Anything else you
T. MARMION 10
want to add that has any importance to yourself?
     A.   Yeah, I was wondering if they actually
had a plan for us, what we were going to do once
we got up there to the 50th, 60th floors, if
there was any idea whether or not there was any
stand pipe in service for us to carry these
rollups up there, what was going to be the plan.
          Did we have a plan to put out this fire
or was it just -- that was the scary thing for me
when I entered the lobby and didn't see any
firemen there.  I have been to many third alarms,
and that's one thing, when you have third alarms,
there's a hundred firemen around the command
center.
          There wasn't one fireman in that lobby
that I saw.  There was only four chiefs and the
Commissioner, something like that.  Apparently
their idea for fighting this thing and trying to
get people out was just everybody up, everybody
up.
          The thing that scares me -- people say
that we weren't lucky with this thing.  I think
we were.  I think if this building would have
collapsed an hour later, we would have had a
T. MARMION 11
thousand firemen in there.  If it would have
collapsed three hours later, we would have had
10,000 firemen in those buildings.
          That was going to be their aim, get
everybody in there.  If they weren't up in the
building, they would have been standing around
the command center in the lobby.  They would have
set up another one inside the other lobby.
          So I think we were blessed when we only
lost 300 guys at that time.  We would have lost
less civilians, but we would have lost tons and
tons more firemen.  I think that's something they
should think about.
          I don't know how they planned on
putting that fire out.  You've got 20, 30 --
     Q.   You bring a rollup up there with the
intention of using it on a fire.
     A.   I don't know what the other intention
was.
     Q.   Yeah, bringing it up that many floors.
     A.   I don't know what their idea was going
to be for us to use that.  I can't believe they
thought -- I wonder if they had gotten any
reports whether or not the standpipe was even
T. MARMION 12
working at that time.  I can't believe it was
working if the inner core of the building was
destroyed when the plane hit.  That's where all
the standpipes are.
     Q.   I don't know if it was available or
not.
          The officer of Engine 1, any other
individual you may have seen prior to the
collapses that you knew that did not survive
this?
     A.   Not that I was with.  He was really the
only one.  I only considered us with 1 Engine.
We had seen 3 Truck on the way in.  They had
asked us which way was the lobby where the
command center was.  We pointed them to where we
thought it was, and that's where they all
proceeded.  They went ahead of us.  I guess being
a Truck company, they told them to go right up.
I don't believe any of those guys made it out.
It was a small group.
          They weren't with Patty Brown and those
guys.  It must have been other guys that made
their way down there on their own.  I wasn't sure
if they had masks on.  I'm not sure.
T. MARMION 13
     LIEUTENANT CHIAFARI:  All right.  The
time is now 4:32.  This now concludes the
interview with Firefighter Marmion.
File No. 9110417
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER STEPHEN ZASA
    Interview Date:  January 2, 2002
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
S. ZASA
2
          BATTALION CHIEF McGRATH:  Today's date is
Wednesday, January 2nd, 2002, the time is 1436 hours,
and this is Battalion Chief James McGrath of the Fire
Department of the City of New York.  I'm conducting an
interview with Stephen Zasa of the 21 Battalion.  This
interview will be regarding the events of September
11th, 2001.  The interview is taking place in the
quarters of Battalion 21.
     Q.   Steve, if you'll please state your name and
just tell your story from the receipt of the alarm
until as far as we can go.
     A.   I'm Stephen R. Zasa, Firefighter 1st Grade,
and I've been detailed in the battalion for the past
year and a half, and I was working the morning of
September 11th.  We responded to a box at Bayley Seton
Hospital.  We had received a report from the members
coming out of the hospital that a possible plane had
struck the World Trade Center.
          Upon hearing that information, we took a ride
down to Bay Street, and we had seen a lot of white
smoke coming from the area where the World Trade Center
is.  So we proceeded to the pier, the Navy port where
the ships dock down there, and we parked facing the
World Trade Center and we saw a heavy smoke condition
S. ZASA
3
coming out of the top of the building.  I think Chief
Vallebuona at the time got on the radio with the
dispatcher asking why it was only -- at the time, as
far as we knew, it was a second alarm.  We didn't see
any signs of fire or flames.  We weren't sure if a
plane had really struck the World Trade.  It was just a
rumor.  We didn't hear anything.
          Upon that time I heard a plane roar.  I had
my window down and on my side we saw a plane flying
very low come right across us and with a loud, you
know, the engines revved up, and I had mentioned to
him, I had no idea that it was heading towards that
way, and I just said like where is this guy going, you
know, he was extremely low, not realizing it was
another plane heading towards the World Trade, and we
saw it struck the building, we saw a big mushroom of
flame, of fire coming up, and it was like disbelief,
and he had gotten on the radio and notified the
dispatcher another plane had struck the World Trade
Center.
          Then we were dispatched to the 32 Battalion.
From there we had picked up a Chief, I don't know even
his name, and an aide, extra cylinders, and we went
through the tunnel, proceeded to the west side.
S. ZASA
4
     Q.   Here's a map, if it will help you at all.
     A.   Maybe West and Liberty we were?  Maybe West
and Vesey we were.  I guess it was Vesey.  When we got
out of the car, Chief Vallebuona --  I can't remember.
We just got out of the car and he went to see if he
could get some information, came back to the car, and I
just remember looking up and seeing the flames coming
out, knowing that we had a -- you know, they were
having a tough time up there.
          As we opened up the doors, I couldn't even
tell you how long it was after that but it wasn't too
long, we had the battalion doors open, we were standing
there, and then we saw everything -- we looked up and
everything just started coming down.  So we proceeded
to run, I guess, towards the water, and we just got
caught up in that cloud of smoke.  I just remember
turning around and seeing the cloud of smoke coming
down and it just engulfed us.
          I couldn't even remember if I heard things on
the radio and I just can't remember.  I remember just
kneeling down and just stuff coming down all around us,
choking, gagging on -- inhaled a lot of that dust.  I
heard somebody calling out.  It was just like dead
silence for a while, I didn't have no gear, no turnout
S. ZASA
5
coat, I just put my hands over my head, and I heard
somebody calling out.  I answered after a while and it
wound up being Chief Vallebuona and we got together,
made it to -- tried to find our way around.
          We made it to a building.  There was a
doorman.  We banged on the glass.  He let us in.  There
may have been one or two civilians with us.  We stayed
there for a little while and we made it back out again
and headed to where our battalion car was.  I can't
even remember what transpired during that.  All I
remember was he found a mask, he handed me my mask, he
said it was going to get worse before it gets better,
and then we heard the second rumble coming down and
just took off again.
Upon that I fell to the ground and a fireman came up to me. He had his mask and full gear on. Again, I didn't have my gear, my helmet. I had nothing. He was sharing his mask with me and I think itwasaPDguywithme. Wegottoabuildingafew blocks down. It was cops, a couple firemen, took us in the building, cleaned everything off, rinsed my mouth out again, came outside, saw parts of the plane on the ground and then just made it back to the car. I didn't know where Chief Vallebuona was then. I saw him at the
S. ZASA
6
scene again and we just remained there for a while and
that was it.  We started seeing the guys coming up from
the ferry.  I couldn't even tell you how long that
was.  I think that was about it.
     Q.   Is there anything that you can remember, any
companies, any --
     A.   I just remember seeing a rig there.  I looked
for an extra cylinder on the way back up again.  After
the second plane came in, there was nothing.  Dead
silence.  I just saw flashing lights again.  No
cylinders, didn't hear anybody, just maybe saw a couple
guys at the curb, just guys milling around, I guess.  I
think everybody was in shock.  We heard planes flying
up above and thought there were still attacks.
Everybody was kind of like crouching down again,
kneeling down, not knowing if they were dropping bombs
or what was going on.  It was just a lot of silence,
you just saw the lights on the rigs and I may have
heard radio transmissions.  I can't remember.
Basically, that's about all I can remember.
     Q.   Can you remember any of the specifics of any
of the radio transmissions?
     A.   No, at this time I can't.
     Q.   Okay.  Is there anything else that you can
S. ZASA
possibly think of that might add to this?
     A.   No, that's just basically it.
7
          BATTALION CHIEF McGRATH:  Okay, Steve.  I
want to thank you very much for the interview.  This
will conclude the interview, then.  The time is 1445
and thank you very much for all your help.

FILE NO 9110418
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW BATTALION CHIEF THOMAS VALLEBUONA INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

VALLEBUONA
CHIEF MCGRATH TODAYS DATE IS
WEDNESDAY JANUARY 2ND 2002 THE TIME IS 1353 HOURS AM BATTALION CHIEF JAMES
MCGRATH OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE
IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH BATTALION CHIEF THOMAS VALLEBUONA
THIS INTERVIEW WOULD BE REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001 THIS INTERVIEW IS TAKING PLACE IN THE QUARTERS OF BATTALION 21 IN STATEN ISLAND
TOM IF YOU WOULD JUST START FROM WHENEVER YOU RECEIVED THE ALARM AND RESPONDING
TO THE SCENE AND TELL US IN YOUR OWN WORDS
EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED
MYSELF AND STEVE ZASA WERE WORKING THE
NIGHT TOUR IN THE 21 BATTALION AROUND 800 IN THE MORNING WE GOT RUN TO THE HOSPITAL BAILEY SETON HOSPITAL WHICH IS CLOSE TO THE SHORELINE OF NEW YORK HARBOR ON STATEN ISLAND
AS WE WERE TAKING UP FROM THE BOX IT WAS 1035 FELLOW CAME DOWN THE STAIRS AND
TOLD US THAT HE JUST HEARD FROM HIS WIFE THAT THERES BEEN AN EXPLOSION IN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
DEPARTMENT

VALLEBUONA
SO FROM THERE WE WENT DOWN TO THE QUARTERS OF MARINE AND WE WERE WATCHING ACROSS THE BAY WE COULD SEE THE FIRE IN THE NORTH TOWER WHEN THE NEXT PLANE THAT WAS GOING TO HIT THE SOUTH TOWER FLEW OVER OUR HEADS
CALLED UP THE DISPATCHER TO VOLUNTEER TO GO TO THE FIRST ONE AND AFTER THE PLANE WENT
OVER OUR HEADS WE WERE NOTIFIED TO RELOCATE TO THE 32 BATTALION
WE THEN RELOCATED TO THE 32 BATTALION WE GOT THERE PRETTY QUICK THE
BRIDGE WAS ALREADY CLOSED TO TRAFFIC THE COPS THERE WERE DOING GREAT JOB WE TALKED TO THE
THOUGHT THEY SHOULD SEND RESCUE BECAUSE THEYRE
GOING TO NEED ALL THE HELP THEY CAN GET
WHEN GOT TO THE 32 BATTALION WE
FOUND THE CREW FROM THE 32 BATTALION WAS IN QUARTERS BUT THEIR CAR WAS NOT THERE UPON ARRIVAL WE WERE NOTIFIED TO BRING THEM OVER TO COMMAND POST AT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AND
AND MADE NOTIFICATIONS COULD HEAR
DISPATCHER
RESCUE WANTING TO GO AND THEY WERENT TELLING THEM TO GO YET THEN THINK THEY WERE RELOCATING THEM BUT WAS TELLING THE DISPATCHER

VALLEBUONA
BELIEVE IT WAS VESEY AND BROADWAY WHICH AT THAT TIME WASNT REALLY SURE WHERE THAT WAS
SO WE TOOK AS MANY CYLINDERS AS WE COULD IN THE RIG FROM THE DEPOT AT 101 AND 202 AND WE PROCEEDED THROUGH THE TUNNEL THE TUNNEL HAD ALREADY BEEN CLOSED BY THE FIRE DEPARTMENT THERE WERE STAGING UNITS THERE WE WERE WAVED THROUGH
UPON COMING OUT OF THE TUNNEL LOOKED UP WEST STREET AND COULD SEE LOT OF
APPARATUS SO DECIDED BECAUSE THE BROOKLYN DISPATCHER HAD ASKED US TO COME BACK TO BROOKLYN
IF WE COULD AND WASNT SURE OF THE LOCATION OF THE COMMAND POST THEY GAVE US SO DECIDED TO STOP ON WEST STREET ROUGHLY IN FRONT OF 90 WEST STREET OPPOSITE ACTUALLY AND WALK UP THE STREET BECAUSE COULD SEE CHIEFS SETTING UP ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE JUST BEYOND LIBERTY STREET ON WEST STREET ON THE SIDEWALK AREA COULD SEE THREE CHIEFS
SETTING UP THERE SO FIGURED WOULD GO UP THERE AND
ASK THEM WHERE THEY WANTED ME TO BRING THE CHIEF FROM THE 32 AND IF THEY WANTED ME TO STAY
UPON WALKING UP AS GOT TO THE OTHER

VALLEBUONA
SIDE OF THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE ASKED THEM IF
THEY WANTED ME TO STAY THEY SEEMED ACTIVELY INVOLVED LOOKED UP REALIZED HOW BAD
THINGS WERE AND SAID THEYRE GOING TO WANT ME TOO
DECIDED TO GO BACK TO THE CAR AND GET MY GEAR BECAUSE WE WERENT SURE AND WE FIGURED
WE WOULD JUST REPORT IN THERE BECAUSE THERE WAS LOT OF ACTIVITY GOING ON ALTHOUGH THE STREET SEEMED AMAZINGLY EMPTY IT WAS BEAUTIFUL BEAUTIFUL FALL DAY
UPON GETTING BACK TO THE CAR STARTED TO GRAB MY TURNOUT GEAR TOLD THE OTHER CHIEF
WELL GO UP THERE SEE WHATS GOING ON THAT WELL CHECK IN UP THERE AND ILL BE RIGHT BEHIND HIM LET THEM KNOW THAT WE HAVE SOME CYLINDERS HERE AS SILLY AS IT SEEMS NOW WHEN HEARD BOOM AN EXPLODING SOUND REAL LOUD BANG LOOKED UP AND COULD SEE THE TRADE CENTER
TO COME DOWN THE SOUTH TOWER WHICH GUESS WAS ABOUT BLOCK AWAY FROM
LOOKING UP IN TOTAL AMAZEMENT COULDNT BELIEVE WHAT WAS SEEING WHICH
PROBABLY EVERYBODY WAS IN THE SAME BOAT SAW
STARTING

VALLEBUONA
STUFF COMING OFF THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING IT LOOKED LIKE GIANT FOUNTAIN IT WAS ACTUALLY
BEAUTIFUL IN STRANGE WAY SAID CANT BE HERE MUST BE BACK IN THE FIREHOUSE
BUT WITHIN SECONDS IT WAS PROBABLY LESS BECAUSE THEY SAY THE BUILDING CAME DOWN IN
AND HALF SECONDS REALIZED THAT WE WERENT FAR ENOUGH AWAY FROM THIS BUILDING AND WE WERE GOING TO BE HIT BY STUFF IT SEEMED LIKE
YOU COULD JUST SEE STUFF SPIRALING OUT LIKE
CONE
SO WE PROCEEDED TO TRY AND OUTRUN IT MYSELF AND MY AIDE STEVIE ZASA WE WERE HOLDING HANDS WITHIN SECONDS WERE ENGULFED IN CLOUD THAT YOU COULDNT SEE YOUR HANDS IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE IT WAS HARD TO BREATHE IF ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE YOU FELT LIKE YOU WERE EATING THE DUST YOU COULD HEAR THINGS FALLING AROUND YOU YOU COULDNT SEE ANYTHING
WE DIDNT GET HIT BY ANYTHING LUCKILY WE HUNKERED DOWN BECAUSE WE DIDNT WANT TO KEEP
ON RUNNING BECAUSE WE COULDNT RUN THE THOUGHT IN MY MIND IS WE WERE GOING TO END UP LIKE THE
PEOPLE IN POMPEII TOTALLY BURIED IN ASH AND
EIGHT

VALLEBUONA
DUST
WHEN SAW THE CLOUD COMING TOWARDS ME IT WAS BROWNISH AND LIKE COLOR THAT SAID THIS HAS GOT TO BE HOT YOU DIDNT KNOW WHAT IT WAS
FIGURED WE WERE GOING TO GET BURNT UP BUT WE DIDN
AFTER HALF HAIL MARY SAID WEVE GOT TO GET OUT OF HERE SO WE STARTED TO CRAWL AROUND WE WORKED OUR WAY SOUTH AND WE WORKED OUR WAY WEST ONE BLOCK DONT KNOW WHETHER THERES STREET ON WEST STREET THAT WOULD BE OFF THAT BUT PROBABLY DOWN TO ALBANY WE MADE OUR WAY DOWN TO ALBANY STREET ACCORDING TO THIS MAP
WOULD SAY IT WAS ALBANY
WENT DOWN ALBANY AND TO THE BUILDINGS
ON THE CORNER OF ALBANY AND END BUT ON THE EAST SIDE OF THAT BUILDING GOT IN THERE AND FOUND STORE WE OPENED UP STORE AND WE STARTED TO
BRING PEOPLE IN THERE PEOPLE WERE WALKING AROUND IN THIS CLOUD HAD LIGHT SO WAS
DIRECTING PEOPLE IN WITH THE LIGHT AND WE WERE BRINGING THEM IN LOT OF PEOPLE WERE IN THERE
PEOPLE WERE JUST WANDERING AROUND WHAT SEEMED LIKE MINUTES BUT ACTUALLY IT TURNED OUT TO BE

VALLEBUONA
20 MINUTES OR MORE WHEN THE DUST FINALLY CLEARED
WE GOT BACK TO THE APPARATUS WHICH WAS
GUESS
90 WEST STREET THERE WERE
PARKED OPPOSITE
FIREMEN COMING UP
SEEING IM NOT
HE WAS RUNNING UP
CHIEF WEVE GOT
DO SOMETHING
JUST FIGURE OUT WHATS GOING ON LETS GET OUR ACT TOGETHER
AS LOOKED OVER IN FRONT OF ME GUESS CHIEF CRUTHERS HAD JUST SHOWN UP BECAUSE
HE DIDNT LOOK LIKE HE WAS DUSTY OR ANYTHING HE LOOKED PRETTY GOOD HE HAD HIS CAR THERE HE
HAD PLANS OR MAP DONT KNOW ON HIS CAR PROCURED MY MASK BECAUSE FIGURED
THE OTHER ONE IT ONLY MADE SENSE THAT
SOMETHING ELSE WAS GOING TO HAPPEN PUT MY MASK ON AND HAD IT READY HAD NO GEAR STILL
BUT HAD MASK BECAUSE DIDNT THINK COULD
THE STREET REMEMBER
SURE WHAT THE FELLOWS NAME IS THE STREET HE SAID COME ON
TO DO SOMETHING WEVE GOT TO SAID WAIT MINUTE LETS
BREATHE THAT STUFF
WENT OVER TO TALK TO CHIEF CRUTHERS
SAW GUYS RUNNING UP THE STREET WAS TRYING
AGAIN

VALLEBUONA
TO STOP THEM FROM RUNNING UP THE STREET BUT DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO LOT OF THOSE GUYS
MYSELF AND CHIEF CRUTHERS STARTED TO TALK AND SAID WHAT SHOULD WE DO AND BA BOOM AGAIN
THE SAME SOUND THE SAME NOISE THE SAME
SHUDDERING SHRILLING NOISE OF THE METAL FALLING AS IT CASCADES DOWN EVEN THOUGH ITS FURTHER
AWAY IT SEEMED LIKE ALMOST WORSE CLOUD
WE WERE ENGULFED AGAIN IN THE CLOUD BUT WE SORT OF HAD BETTER IDEA THE STUFF WAS HITTING AROUND US MORE IT SEEMED LIKE THAT
TIME DONT KNOW WHY YOU COULD HEAR LIKE THINGS HITTING THE GROUND BOOM BOOM BOOM AND STUFF STILL WE WERE LUCKY
LOST TRACK OF EVERYBODY THIS TIME LOST TRACK OF THE AIDE WAS ON MY OWN
REALLY DONT REMEMBER HOW WE GOT OUT OF THAT ONE OR IF IT CLEARED SOONER BUT THE NEXT TIME WE CAME UP THE STREET USED MY MASK THIS TIME TO TRY TO TAKE FEW SHOTS IT TURNED OUT BEING MISTAKE BECAUSE GOT THE PROVERBIAL SHOT OF CRAP IN MY FACE AND DUST MY EYES WERE IMPOUNDED
WE CAME BACK AND DIDNT KNOW WHERE STEVIE WAS AND WAS REALLY UPSET ABOUT THAT

BRIDGE
WAS LINE GOING UP THE STREET
HE LOOKED LIKE THING THE OLD CURRIER IVES
PILE THERE CURRIER IVES
DIRECTING
VALLEBUONA 10
WHERE THOUGHT CHIEF CRUTHERS HAD RUN THERE WAS
OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER DONT KNOW HOW IT WENT OVER THE WALKWAY
WHERE SAW LINE GO UP THE STREET
TOWARDS THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE PROBABLY
YOU WOULD CALL IT THE EAST SIDE OF THE PEDESTRIAN
THERE
THERE DONT REMEMBER IF IT WAS FROM THE SQUAD TRYING TO TAKE LINE UP THERE BUT WAS TRYING TO HOLD PEOPLE BACK AND THEY WENT UP THERE BUT WHERE THAT LINE WENT UP THERE WAS NOTHING BUT PILE OF RUBBLE ON TOP OF IT THERE MUST HAVE
BEEN LIKE 15 DONT KNOW HOW HIGH IT WAS
HEARD RADIO TRAFFIC BUT COULDNT FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON OR WHO WAS DOING
WHAT WALKED MY WAY UP THE STREET AND WENT UNDER THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE WHEN CAME OUT IT WAS CLEAR NOW THE DUST WAS PRETTY CLEAR SAW CHARLIE BLAICH WAS ON TOP OF
BIG PIECE
COULDNT BELIEVE HE WAS CALM AS HELL HE WAS DOING
TERRIFIC JOB DIRECTING GUYS THAT COULDNT SAID CHARLIE DONT KNOW WHATS
GUESS

TO TRY AND EXTINGUISH WEST STREET ALSO HAD
CONCERNED ABOUT HAD THE WAY UP IT WAS CONSTRUCTION
FIRE IN THAT BUILDING 90 WHICH WE WERE VERY
SCAFFOLDING AROUND IT ALL GIGANTIC BUILDING UNDER
VALLEBUONA 11
GOING ON HERE IM REALLY KIND OF BEAT UP
WAS PRETTY BEAT UP SAID IM GOING TO GO DOWN AND ILL GET WATER BECAUSE WE HAD SOME PUMPERS HOOKED UP BEFORE THIS AND READY TO GO
BOTH TIMES THINK EVEN BEFORE THE FIRST ONE WE HAD PUMPER HOOKED UP ON WEST STREET AND READY
TO GO
TOLD CHARLIE HE DIDNT
ME BECAUSE HE SAID LOOKED LIKE BLACK MAN
DRESSED UP IN WHITE FACE ITS NOT FUNNY BUT THATS THE WAY IT LOOKED
WENT DOWN THE STREET AND WE STARTED USING THE PUMPER 90 WEST STREET HAD COUPLE OF
FLOORS OF FIRE GOING AT THE TIME THERE WAS FIRE ON THE FIRST FLOOR AND WE FELT THERE WAS FIRE IN THE BASEMENT WE WENT IN THE FRONT VESTIBULE DOOR AND THE AIR WAS SUCKING IN
SO WE GOT SOME LINES AND WE WERE GOING
THE APPARATUS WAS STARTING TO BURN UP
RECOGNIZE

DO GUYS
TRYING TO BASICALLY
WERE VERY COOPERATIVE
SO WE GOT SOME LINES GOING AND WE WERE KNOCK THINGS DOWN AND THE LINES
WENT FLAT THEY DIDNT GO FLAT BUT LIMP ALMOST YOU REALIZED RIGHT AWAY
VALLEBUONA 12
ON THE STREET AND THERE WERE LOT OF FIRES
ALL AROUND US LOT OF CARS WERE STARTING TO TAKE OFF SOME AMBULANCES THINK
IT WAS 113S RIG WAS STARTING TO BURN UP GUY SAID CHIEF IT WAS NOT THAT YOU DIDNT CARE
DID CARE WE WERE TRYING TO DO STUFF GUYS WERE COOPERATING WAS THE ONLY CHIEF THERE AT
THAT TIME PEOPLE WOULD TAKE LEADERSHIP VERY WELL WHATEVER YOU WANTED TO OFFER THEY WOULD
BURNING
THEY WENT
THAT THE MAINS MUST HAVE GONE OUT IN EITHER THE FIRST OR THE SECOND COLLAPSE BASICALLY OUR WATER SUPPLY WAS NOTHING IT WASNT EVEN ENOUGH FOR ONE LINE COMING OFF THAT PUMP WE WERE TRYING TO WORK ON OTHER TRYING TO FIND OTHER SOURCES OF WATER
THE TIME SPAN NOW COULDNT REALLY EVEN TELL YOU AS THE DAY WENT ON LIKE HOW LONG THIS TOOK HOW LONG THAT TOOK WE GAVE UP ON 90 WEST STREET AS FAR AS AN INTERIOR OPERATION
GOES

VALLEBUONA 13
BECAUSE WE HAD NO MASKS WE HAD NO COMMUNICATIONS WE HAD LIMITED AMOUNT OF
PEOPLE QUITE FRANKLY THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN FIFTH ALARM THAT BUILDING WITHOUT WHAT WAS
GOING ON
MY OBJECTIVE AT THAT TIME WAS TO NOT LOSE ANYBODY ELSE AT THIS FIRE WHICH FELT AT THAT TIME WOULD BE MIRACLE OF COURSE AS WE ALL KNOW THAT HAS BECOME MIRACLE THAT NOBODY ELSE REALLY DIED AFTER THIS THAT WE KNOW OF
JUST TRIED TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT OF THE WAY OF 90 WEST STREET AFTER WE REALIZED WE
COULDNT DO AN INTERIOR OPERATION TRIED TO
KEEP PEOPLE FROM WALKING UP UNDERNEATH THE SCAFFOLDING WAS GRIEVOUSLY CONCERNED WITH THAT BECAUSE ALL DAY LONG YOU COULD HEAR IT SEEMED LIKE RIVETS OR WHATEVER PINGING OFF THE THING GOING PING PING
WE TRIED TO SET UP IN FRONT OF NOT 90 WEST STREET BUT THE MARRIOTT AND WORK OFF THAT
CORNER FOR SOME MIRACULOUS WAY TOLD GUYS TO GO DOWN DONT KNOW HOW THIS EVER WORKED OUT
BUT TOLD THEM TO GO TO THE WATERFRONT AND SEE IF THEY COULD SEE FIRE BOAT

VALLEBUONA 14
IT SEEMED
AMOUNT OF TIME DONT WANT TO SAY MINUTES
BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY IT COULDNT BE IT SEEMED LIKE SHORTLY THEREAFTER LINES WERE COMING UP THE STREET THREE AND HALF INCH LINES
WE SUPPLIED THE STANDPIPE WITH
NON POTABLE WATER AT THE MARRIOTT AND SENT
GUY FROM 108 TRUCK ILL NEVER FORGET THAT BECAUSE IT WAS FORMER COMPANY OF MINE GUY
SAID 108 TRUCK HERE SAID GO GET
STANG WHICH WE ALL KNOW THATS NOT WHAT WE CALL IT ANYMORE SAID GO TO THE ROOF OF THE MARRIOTT AND YOU TAKE LINE OFF THE MANIFOLD
AND WELL START BECAUSE THE ROOF OF 90 WEST STREET WAS PROCEEDING TO BURN AT THAT TIME ALSO
THE OBJECTIVE AS IM TELLING YOU WAS TO KEEP THE FIRE FROM EXTENDING AND TO NOT LOSE
ANY MORE PEOPLE
WE GOT HAND LINES INTO THE MARRIOTT
ALSO AND WE OPERATED OFF THE STANDPIPE DONT KNOW HOW WE DID IT COMPANIES WERE COMING IN
FROM NEW JERSEY WHO WERE HELPING US STRETCH
LINES PEOPLE WERE REALLY WORKING GOOD WE HAD
COUPLE LINES GOING ACROSS FROM THE MARRIOTT AND
LIKE WITHIN REMARKABLE

VALLEBUONA 15
OFF THE ROOF
THAT FIRE HEARD WAS BURNING RIGHT
THROUGH TO THE NEXT DAY BUT FELT LIKE AT LEAST WE KNOCKED DOWN AND DID CONFINE SOMEWHAT THE FIRE
THERE
IT WASNT TOTAL CHAOS AS PEOPLE CAME UP THE STREET IF SAW SOMEBODY FROM SUC IT WAS WONDERFUL THING TO SEE THE GUYS FROM STATEN ISLAND COME IN AND ALL THE GUYS KNEW ITS REMARKABLE HOW FAST THAT WAS HAPPENING
AS PEOPLE WOULD COME IN WOULD HAVE GUYS WORK WITH ME BOBBY MOSIER SHOWED UP AND HE SHOWED HIS TERRIFIC ABILITY TO LEAD BUT AS
GUYS WOULD COME IN WOULD SEND GUYS FROM SOC UP THE STREET UP TO CHARLIE AND WE WOULD KEEP THE GUYS DOWN THERE TO CONFINE THE FIRE
WOULD SAY AROUND OR 500 WAS KIND OF BURNT UP AND COULDNT BEAR TO SEE ANOTHER
FALL DOWN SO
STREET AND TOOK REST TOLD BOBBY MOSIER HE
BUILDING
TOOK WALK DOWN THE
SAID HE DIDNT MIND
AT THE TIME AROUND WEST STREET AT THAT SECTOR JUST SAT DOWN FOR WHILE RELAXED CALLED HOME AND TOLD EVERYBODY WAS ALIVE
LOT OF CHIEFS WERE THERE

VALLEBUONA 16
WENT BACK AND TRIED TO DO SOME MORE AS IT GOT DARK BUT COULDNT SEE SO WENT
DOWN TO CLINIC THAT WAS SET UP ON WASHINGTON STREET DOWN THERE SOMEPLACE TRIAGE CENTER
DOCTOR COULDNT WASH OUT MY EYES SO GOT RIDE OVER TO THE HOSPITAL ON THE OTHER SIDE OF TOWN
WALKED BACK AND GUESS AROUND 11 1100 WENT HOME
THATS ABOUT IT
JUST COUPLE OF QUICK THINGS PERHAPS
YOU COULD CLARIFY
DO YOU KNOW WHOSE PUMPER IT WAS THAT
YOU WERE TAKING THE LINES OFF TO GO TO 90 WEST STREET
THE PUMPERS RAN OUT OF WATER
BUT DO YOU KNOW WHOSE PUMPER IT WAS NO WE STARTED GETTING THINGS GOING
REMEMBER 15 TRUCK BELIEVE WE USED AS TOWER LADDER ALSO ON THE SIDE THERE AT 90 WEST STREET
WITH GUYS
THE PUMPERS THERE YOU KNOW PEOPLE WERE COMING IN IT WAS AMAZING THE STUFF THAT
WAS GOING ON IT REALLY WAS
CAPTAIN MCKINNEY TIMMY MCKINNEY COUPLE
GUESS

SCREWED UP AND GUYS WERE COMING IN CANT REMEMBER THE COMPANY NUMBERS
WHY ITS JUST HARD THERES LOT JUST DONT REMEMBER
REALLY DONT KNOW
OF STUFF YOU
REMEMBER
VALLEBUONA 17
THE OTHER THING AS IM SURE YOURE AWARE NOT TOO MUCH THERE WERE BODY PARTS ALL OVER THE PLACE IT WAS JUST TOTAL
WHAT ABOUT THE COMPANY THAT WAS
STRETCHING DO YOU REMEMBER ANY OF THE COMPANIES HAD 108 TRUCK HAD THE CAPTAIN OF
DI THINK HE HAD HIS GUYS WE KNOCKED DOWN FIRE ON THE FIRST FLOOR OF 90 WEST STREET AND HE
WENT TO THE ENTRANCE TO THE BASEMENT HES
PRETTY GOOD FIREMEN WHICH THEYRE ALL GREAT FIREMEN BUT HE HAD TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF HEAT
HAD NO MASK HE FELT THERE WAS NO WAY WE BELONGED IN THE BASEMENT THERE ALSO
WHAT OTHER COMPANIES LET ME THINK
ITS REALLY HARD TO RECALL BECAUSE THINGS WERE SO
IM SURE
ANY RADIO TRANSMISSIONS THAT YOU CAN
HEARD MAYDAYS IN THE BEGINNING WHOSE THEY WERE CANT REALLY REMEMBER

VALLEBUONA 18
ALWAYS TRIED TO TRAIN MYSELF TO KEY IN ON MAYDAYS
THE GUYS WERE REALLY TERRIFIC NEVER HAD MORE PEOPLE FOLLOW ORDERS AND DO THE RIGHT
THING IN MY WHOLE TIME GUYS WENT UP THE STREET THAT SHOULD HAVE GONE UP THE STREET IT WAS TERRIFIC
BUT THE UNITS JUST CANT REMEMBER JERRY REALLY CANT REMEMBER WHAT UNITS THE
NUMBERS WE GOT OUR ORDER FROM MARINE LOT OF FIREMEN CAME OVER FROM NEW JERSEY DONT KNOW HOW THEY GOT THERE GUESS BY BOAT AND THEY WERE STRETCHING LINES UP THE STREET TOO QUITE FEW LINES
THOSE FIRE BOATS TELL YOU IF THEY

VALLEBUONA 19
DONT KNOW THEY NEED NEW FIRE BOATS BY NOW
THEYRE NEVER GOING TO KNOW
ALL RIGHT IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE IN
PARTICULAR THAT YOU CAN THINK OF THAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO ADD
THATS IT
ALL RIGHT WANT TO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ALL YOUR INFORMATION
CHIEF MCGRATH THIS WILL CONCLUDE THE INTERVIEW THEN THE TIME IS 1412 ONCE AGAIN THIS INTERVIEW TOOK PLACE IN THE QUARTERS OF THE 21 BATTALION
File No. 9110419
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER RICHARD CARLETTI
Interview Date: January 2, 2002
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
2 R. CARLETTI
LIEUTENANT CHIAFARI: Today's date is January the 2nd, 2002, the time is now 7:35 p.m., and this is Lieutenant Joseph Chiafari of the Safety Command of the New York City Fire Department. I am conducting an interview with the following individual, Richard
Carletti of Engine Company No. 5, about the events of September the 11th, 2001.
Q. If you can for the record state your name and location of where you were working at the day of the incident.
A. Richard Carletti, Firefighter 1. I was
working at Engine 5. I was assigned for a 24-hour tour assigned at 9:00 a.m. that morning.
Well, here's how my morning starts. I
usually come in around 8:00 like everyone does, but I went to vote, so I was late. I was coming up Allen, which turns into First. When I was crossing Delancey Street, I saw a jet in front of me, which was the first jet. He was pretty low. He was probably about 30 stories. Now I'm heading north and crossing Delancey Street on Allen and I see the jet make a move toward the Trade Center. It made a southwesterly turn from that point.
I proceeded up First Avenue, left on 14th,
3 R. CARLETTI
parked in front of the firehouse. Fireman Lynn was there. He said they were out on a box, they wouldn't let him on because they thought they had a good job, and right then he told me a plane just crashed into the Trade Center. It was the same exact plane I just saw.
I proceeded upstairs. I got dressed. We
left here about five to 9:00. We made a left going
west on 14th Street, left on Second Avenue. I was in
my personal car. We started taking the lights on First Avenue. We got to about 2nd Street and Second Avenue and we saw Ladder 7 was on a gas leak. We asked them if they were going to the Trade Center. They said no, they weren't assigned yet. We were on the east side of the street. We went to make a right on Houston, and right when we were making the right on Houston, we saw a fireball in the sky, which at this point was the
second impact, so that puts it 9:06, turning right onto Houston.
We went down -- I figured I was in my
personal car, we wouldn't make it down Broadway. We thought it would be backed up. I made a left on Lafayette, which is a one-way north. I was going south. I stopped in front of 20 Truck. There was one guy there. He said everybody already left. We
4 R. CARLETTI
proceeded down. We went on the side of I guess
Lafayette, right down by City Hall, we made a left and
we parked over by 6 Engine on Beekman, parked the car
on the sidewalk, grabbed our gear and proceeded to walk
up Beekman to Park Row, down Park Row to Broadway. We stopped in front of a building, left our boots inside
the building on Broadway, got dressed and proceeded
west on Liberty.
When we turned the corner west on Liberty, figure it was probably about 9:15 at this time, there was a good 20 floors of fire in the south tower. I mean, it was pushing red on at least 20 floors from what we could see. I turned to Tommy and I said, Tommy, this building is in danger of collapse. In my opinion, I didn't think there was going to be a catastrophic collapse, but from the fire load, there was no way.
When we passed 10 and 10, there's a bridge
that runs I guess into one of the buildings directly south of Trade Center No. 2. There's a pedestrian walkway. As we passed that, we came into the debris field. It was jet parts and body parts. I distinctly remember seeing a woman's hand. It was cut off at the wrist. She had wedding ring, so it had to be a left
5 R. CARLETTI
hand, and then I looked to the left and I just saw the rib cage with nothing in it and there was just debris.
At that point we stopped for a second and we
heard impacts, which I guess was jumpers hitting the pavement. To our right, there was a parking lot right
on West and Liberty. There were about seven cars on fire. We just walked -- there was a line there just dropped. We walked across West Street, found an engine company, and they said the command post is just north
of here in front of World Financial Center.
We walked up there and we told a Chief we
were two from 5 Engine. He told us go in the street, secure masks, irons, whatever tools you can get, and he ordered us to not go into the buildings, to come back
to the command post. So most of the rigs were stripped in front of the Trade Center. There was nothing in them. The equipment was already taken.
We walked up West Street, past the Verizon, one block north of Vesey, and we found our engine, 5 Engine, parked there. I guess the chauffeur's radio
was on step. I guess when he changed, he forgot to put it back on. I took his radio. We looked in the rig. There was nothing in there. All the doors were open. It was pretty much empty. I found a mask on 91
6 R. CARLETTI
Engine. We looked for about another five minutes. We didn't find any other equipment. So all we had was one mask between the two of us.
We went back to the command post. We met a captain from 91 Engine, told him who we were. He walked over to the command post, told them who we were, and that's when we saw Paul Mitchell. He just got made out of Ladder 110. He was a covering officer here, covering lieutenant. I figure at this point that was probably about quarter to, ten to 10:00. So I saw all
the Chiefs there. The officer from 91 took our names,
told us to stand over there.
There was a driveway there that went into, I guess, one of the World Financial buildings. We went over and we stood on the burn in front of the Winter Garden room. We were just south of the north bridge standing on the grass area. I think EMS was setting up their command post behind us. When I saw Paul Mitchell, I was joking because he had a firefighter's helmet on instead of a lieutenant's, so I guess he grabbed equipment from 110. He got off that morning.
We were standing there. The officer from 91
says stay here, we're going to get two more guys and
get teamed up, and what went through my mind was – the
7 R. CARLETTI
only thing I was annoyed at was that we were going to have to hike 80 floors. We stood there for about ten minutes and I just heard a loud groan by everyone in the street. I guess the south tower started to lean.
The top 30 floors leaned over. I was looking up at the north tower. I was trying to monitor more what was going on in the north tower with the radio, and they were on three different channels at this point.
I looked up and about the 70th floor I saw
the western wall of the south tower start to belly
out. Tommy turned, said run. He started running and I turned around behind him and we ran into the revolving door of the Winter Garden room, which is a glass atrium, I guess about ten stories high. As I went through the revolving door, I was in with an EMS guy and I either tripped her up or knocked her over. I remember picking her up. We went back around to the back. Everybody started going into the Winter Garden room. I remember the floor rumbling and the lights went out at this point in that hallway. Everybody started to go into the Winter Garden room. It's got a glass roof, so I told them to move north.
We went to the American Express Building. We ran north. So this was about five after 10:00. We
8 R. CARLETTI
proceed to go back out on the north side of the building. The dust was just too intense. You couldn't see more than five feet at this point. So we went back in. We waited about another five minutes. We went out. The Captain from 91 Engine was covered in dust. We looked in two more rigs for any equipment. There was nothing. We went to the corner. We saw Tom Manley, sergeant at arms of the union.
We stood on that corner. A Chief came over
and ordered us to go north. He wanted everyone to go north. I said, Tommy, let's go back to 5 Engine. When
we walked back to 5 Engine, we found Lieutenant Bohack, Firefighter Jim Andruzzi, Firefighter Eddie Mecner backing the rig up and Eddie was all over the road with
the rig. They came out of the seat and I got in the
seat. We backed into a side street, turned the rig
around and proceeded north and we parked on Warren Street one block south of Chambers. I guess now this
was about 10:25. We stood there for another four
minutes and the south tower collapsed -- I mean the
north tower collapsed.
When the north tower collapsed, I remember seeing the antenna do a little rock back and forth and I could just hear the floors pancaking. I heard it for
9 R. CARLETTI
about 30 pancakes, just boom, boom, boom, boom, and the dust blew up to us.
We ran about one block north. The dust
settled. We went back to the rig, threw the equipment back on the rig, what was on the sidewalk, our jackets
and radios. We took the rig. We went east. We made a left on Greenwich and we proceeded north. We came back around in front of Stuyvesant High School. They were setting up a command post there. I mean, you could
listen to the monitors. Basically they wanted engines
was booster tanks to come down and extinguish the car fires then going.
We stood there for about another 20 minutes.
That's when we figured out who we were missing. We were missing Manny Delvalle, Gerard Gorman and Brogan were now missing at this point, and Eddie Mecner confirmed that Brogan was put in an ambulance, and
about ten minutes later Gerard Gorman came walking up. He was covered in dust and pretty shocked. So he proceeded to get in an ambulance and go to the hospital
at that point.
We got the rig cleaned up and we proceeded
from -- when we were on Chambers Street, we were blocked out. We went over, down to Chambers Street, we
10 R. CARLETTI
went across behind City Hall, made a right. We made a U-turn past City Hall along the Brooklyn Bridge. We
went over to the east side, completely around
Manhattan. We came up Broadway from the south, made a left on Exchange and a right on Broadway, and we came up to Thames and we shut the rig down and there was absolute silence. There were only six firefighters at
this point over there. It was about 15 minutes after the collapse, the second collapse.
We checked the hydrants. We only found hydrants working on the east side of the street. The west side were all shut down, were all dead. At this point it was Bohack, Lieutenant Bohack, Andruzzi, Mecner, Lynn. They proceeded to walk north up Broadway. I stayed with the rig. I eventually moved the rig forward where I ran into my brother's Lieutenant and he had a spare rig. He was going to go down Dey Street and I was going to augment him, but another engine decided to augment. I came back around. I parked on Liberty and Broadway and I proceeded to augment 247, which was on Church and Liberty, and we stayed there until about 6:00 o'clock that night.
We went back to the house, we got our eyes
11 R. CARLETTI
washed, we went back down at 11:00 p.m. with 3 Truck, with the rest of the battalion. We went to 10 and 10 command post. We went to about the middle of the pile, but we were just -- at this point we extinguished fires most of the night almost in the center of the complex and just west of what was left of building No. 4. We were on the pile just with three hand lines putting out fires until 9:00 o'clock in the morning.
Q. So that was during the nighttime, then, you were putting fires out on the pile?
A. Y es. And that was it.
Q. So you had mentioned about repositioning your rig just prior to the second collapse?
A. Our rig was parked -- I don't know the name
of the street. It's one block north of Vesey. It was
on the northbound side facing south. They came and they were parked on the hydrant. When I got there, Eddie was backing the rig up and he was having a hard time with it and so I got in the seat. We backed into
a street and then we proceeded to go north.
Q. Had any of the guys that were working with the rig, had they returned back to the -- the guys who were working in Engine 5 that day, had they returned back to the rig?
12 R. CARLETTI
A. Yes. At that point it was Lieutenant Bohack, Firefighter Andruzzi, Firefighter Mecner, and at that point we were missing Firefighter Brogan, Firefighter Delvalle and Firefighter Gorman. That's when we went up to Warren Street and we parked. Then when the second collapse happened, that's when we brought the rig --
Q. Around?
A. We went up to Greenwich, made a left. Greenwich is a southbound street. We went up, came past I think it was Manhattan Community College. We made a left. We came back down Stuyvesant. From this point we just went like a complete circle back down to Stuyvesant High School. Then they told us there was a bomb scare and we had to move the rig north from there.
Q. You said you were wearing a handy-talky. Were there any significant handy-talky transmissions that you did hear at any point prior to, during, or after any of the collapses?
A. About 10:15, 10:20, I finally heard the Maydays for the north tower, to evacuate the north tower. Prior to that I didn't hear any Maydays. I mean, I heard a lot of chatter, nothing of really any significance. I didn't hear any Maydays or anything.
13 R. CARLETTI
It was mostly command post instructions of the Chiefs being moved around. I didn't hear anything else. That's the first time I heard the Mayday.
Q. About 10:15?
A. Yes. We also started repeating the Maydays
on our radios because we were on the corner of Vesey and West Street. We were on the southwest side, that's when we were standing with Manley, and they were also blowing the air horns.
Q. Besides Lieutenant Mitchell that you had seen, any other individuals that you had seen that you're aware of that did not make it out of the collapse debris?
A. No, he's the only one I can remember. I
don't think I saw anyone else at the command post. I remember seeing Hayden and I saw Ganci.
Q. At the command post you saw Chief Ganci? A. Y es. I saw V on Essen there.
Q. This is the command post that was on West
Street?
A. West Street. It was on the garage ramp in
front of I guess that's -- I think it's 2 World Financial Center. There's a south building in the World Financial Center complex.
14 R. CARLETTI
Q. Right. On the same side as the Winter Garden?
A. Yes.
Q. So you never entered any of the tower buildings?
A. No.
Q. So, primarily, when you came around from the Liberty Street side, you walked on West Street?
A. Yes. We were across the street.
Q. Oh, on the west side of West Street?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay.
A. Because when we stood in front of -- right
past 10 and 10, past that north -- we were really underneath the bridge. There's a pedestrian bridge
that used to cross Liberty just south of 10 and 10. Is that a Bankers Trust building there? I don't know what the name of it is.
Q. I'm not sure of the name of the building. A. Blockbuster.
Q. There's a south walkway, though, that goes
across West Street.
A. When we got past there, that's when we
entered the debris field and you heard shotgun blasts,
15 R. CARLETTI
and when I looked -- I don't know if Tommy looked, but
I could see what was lying on the ground. It was just
a pile of meat, red. So I said to Tommy, let's get out
of here. There's too many humans coming down from the building. I figured that had to be about 9:15, 9:20,
and there was a good 20 to 25 floors of fire. But, see, there were no Chiefs on that east
side of that building. When we walked down Liberty, we were the only two firefighters on Liberty. There was
no observation on that side.
Q. Nobody was on the Liberty Street side or the --
A. No. 10 and 10 was empty. The doors were open and there wasn't a soul in the building. I don't know if they were open. I think they were open. We looked and there was no one in there.
Q. So, actually, on the Liberty Street side there was no apparatus that was parked there?
A. There was apparatus parked on the corner of I think it was -- or it probably might have been Ladder 10 that was parked on -- Liberty's got two lanes in each direction. It's got an island in the middle of
it. They blocked off -- there used to be two ways in each direction. I think it was Ladder 10 that was
16 R. CARLETTI
parked there. I'm not sure. I don't really remember.
I remember when I seen the body hit the ground, I thought I saw Ladder 10 parked there. I mean, I don't remember.
There were engines parked across the street.
I don't remember who they were. They were across on Liberty, across West Street. I don't remember seeing any other -- in truth, I don't remember seeing any apparatus but that one on the corner.
Q. Otherwise everything else was in the middle of Liberty or on West Street?
A. West Street, yes.
Q. Okay, Rich. Anything else of significance that you'd like to add to this interview that you feel it's important?
A. No. Just that when we walked down Liberty, I found that we were the only ones there and that was odd to me. There was no observation on that side of the building.
Q. Okay.
A. When I got to the command post, what was I going to say? I mean, I've got seven years on the job. I remember telling the Chief I think this building is in dire need, it's going to collapse.
17 R. CARLETTI
There was one point at the command post, I mean, I don't know about the battalion, but I felt I could have just walked away and no one would have known, but I didn't.
Q. You did what you thought was right.
A. Yes. I mean, I ran ten minutes later, but that was self preservation.
Q. The intentions were well at that time to do what you had to do to go down there. Okay. So if there's nothing further?
A. No.
LIEUTENANT CHIAFARI: This now concludes the
interview with Firefighter Carletti. The time is now 7:54 p.m.
File No. 9110420
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER GERARD GORMAN
    Interview Date:  January 2, 2002
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
G. GORMAN
2
          LIEUTENANT CHIAFARI:  Today's date is January
the 2nd, 2002.  The time is now 8:25 p.m. and this is
Lieutenant Chiafari of the Safety Command of the Fire
Department of New York City.  I am conducting an
interview with the following individual, Gerard Gorman
of Engine Company No. 5, regarding the events of
September the 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Would you please state your name and the unit
you were assigned to and position for that day?
     A.   Gerard Gorman, Engine 5, control man.
     Q.   Can you tell us the events of September the
11th?
     A.   I came in and relieved one of the two details
from 6 Engine.  The other guy, he made it out, and the
other guy, John from 20 Truck, John Burnside from 20
Truck, he was relieved by Manny, who didn't make it
out.
     Q.   When you say relieved, he had worked here the
night before; is that what you're saying?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   So this is prior to --
     A.   This is like 8:15 or something.
     Q.   Okay.  This is before the alarm had come in?
     A.   Right.  He got relieved by him.   Burnside,
G. GORMAN
3
then went to 20 Truck and relieved somebody there, and
we'll get back to this later, but the guy who helped
lead me out was the guy that Burnside relieved.  So it
was like, I guess, an ironic twist you could say.
Anyway, so we relieved these guys, and then around 8:30
a box came in that sounded like a phone alarm came in
for 19th Street and Irving, and that's a nice area, you
never get a phone alarm from there, so we thought it
was a good box.
          We got on our rig.  We were second due.  14
Engine was first.  We were second.  Ladder 3, I don't
know who the second truck would be on there.  7 maybe.
I don't know.  And it was really nothing.  We barely
got off the rig and then we were just checking hydrants
and stuff.  Then the officer yelled there was a 1060,
we tried to make ourselves 10-8 real quick.  1060 just
came that a plane crashed into the Trade Center.
          So we backed the rig up.  We started down
Irving.  I remember looking up.  We were walking
towards P.C. Richards.  At P.C. Richards I was trying
to see on -- they had all these TVs in P.C. Richards
and I was trying to see if they had it on TV already
and they didn't.  There was an interview on the Today
Show.
G. GORMAN
4
          We made the right turn on 14th Street.  Then
when we get down like Broadway and 5th Avenue, you can
see the Trade Center, you can see the plane hit.  As a
matter of fact --
     Q.   What do you mean, you could see the plane
hit?
     A.   You could see the aftermath of the first
plane hitting.
     Q.   Oh, the aftermath.  Okay.
     A.   As a matter of fact, Derek Brogan, who was
with us, had said that plane was flying low when we
were on 19 and Irving before it hit.  He said, gee,
that's the plane that hit it.  I didn't notice it, but
he did.
          Anyway, so the box came in.  We went.  We
were yelling at the chauffeur not to go down Broadway,
to go down West Street, it would be faster.  We went
down West Street and we could see it in the raw.
Pretty much in the rig you could just see fire from the
skin.  You could see the skin cut like in an angle, and
I remember, we didn't know it was an airliner and I
thought maybe it was an executive jet or something.  I
knew it was bigger than a Cessna, you know, a private
plane, but I didn't think it was that big.  You could
G. GORMAN
see about eight or ten stories cut in an angle.  I
remember saying, well, the good news is it's vented,
you know, dopey fireman thing, and I remember just
saying in the rig, I remember talking to Manny in front
of me and saying just stay together, stay together,
stay together.  I was going to say it so often.
          Then we got down there towards West Street.
It was funny watching the people as you go down West
Street watching it and stuff.  So we go down West
Street.  We got off a block north of Vesey Street and
we all got out of the rig.  Our chauffeur came with us,
too.  We all got dressed up.  Everybody was taking
extra cylinders.  I was control, so I got the irons and
the control bag.  Manny took the oxygen, which he took
a little longer, but it was a good idea.
          So we went in and we rushed in --
     Q.   You had a radio, of course, right?
     A.   I had a radio.  I had control radio.  So we
rushed in to the lobby and pretty much pretty quick the
guy, Gregg Atlas, who didn't make it out, from 10
Engine, came over to us and said to us, 5 Engine,
you're going up to the fire.  Just put water on the
fire.
          Somewhere along the line I heard the elevator
5
G. GORMAN
drop.  He said, oh, shit, and just right after he said
that, you heard a huge explosion, and I looked to my
right and I could see the reflection, just the whole
Financial Center, a reflection of flames just turn
orange, basically, because it's all glass, you know,
turn orange and you saw it.
          Then we just start marching up the stairs.  I
don't know which staircase it was, B or C.  I don't
remember.  It was around and we had to walk around an
elevator shaft sort of.  But we were with 10 Engine.
10 Engine was ahead.  I think their officer got ahead
of us because it was like trying to get into the subway
train on rush hour, you know, because there's two
people coming out of the door at a time and it was
overly full and we're trying to rush our way in, and he
might have got ahead of us.  He got a good head start.
We all had a hard time getting in to the stairwell and
we were yelling to people as we were going in there, as
we finally got in, everybody stay to your right,
everybody stay to your right.  We got in and we started
marching up.  That's the last time I saw Manny.  I
never saw him again.  Because he was behind me, I
think.  I'm pretty sure.
          So we start marching up and about the 4th
6
G. GORMAN
floor, 5th floor, one burn victim came down.  I think
she said the 60th something floor.  I don't know.  I
think I heard that.  I'm not sure.  I don't think
that's possible, but I can't be sure.
     Q.   Sixty?
     A.   Something floor.
     Q.   Sixtieth floor possibly?
     A.   It could have been possibly with the
elevator.  I don't know.
     Q.   You saw this person and you were on what; you
were still on the lower floors?
     A.   Yes.  4th, 5th, 6th, something.  Before we
took a break.  We took a break early at around the 8th,
10th floor.  See, the problem with taking breaks was
every fourth or fifth floor was the only entry point,
and you've got to realize, we've got the key for every
door, basically, the Halligan, but to take the time to
force a door, we stopped the whole line of people
behind you.  So we just waited until we opened a door
and go.  I think we stopped at the 8th floor.
          See, at that time somebody yelled, get oxygen
for that lady.  She was walking down.  She was a burn
victim.  Her skin was peeling and stuff and she -- I
think I seen a picture of her later in one of these
7
G. GORMAN
photo galleries.  I can't be sure.  A lady maybe in her
forties or something.  We think that Manny gave her
oxygen because he had the oxygen with him and that he
had helped.  He got delayed back.
          So we're marching up.  I didn't know whether
he did that.  I don't know if he was two guys behind me
or one guy behind me.  I don't even remember.  I wish I
did.
     Q.   So really that's the last you ever had any
contact with him?
A. Right.
     Q.   But he didn't notify anybody or say anything
like I'm going to --
     A.   We never heard him.
     Q.   In other words, he wasn't like right directly
behind you where he turned around and said that --
     A.    See, we weren't because when we had to get
into that stairway, we were just like a mass of
humanity.  It wasn't like you could get in one, one,
one, one.  It's like the subway, you know, one person
get in with 20 people behind you.  Like I said, the
officer from 10 was way ahead.  That's what I think
happened to him.
          So we got on the 8th floor and we took a
8
G. GORMAN
blow.  We were looking out the stairway for Manny, but
you can only open the door so much.  The doors open in
and they were only going two across the stairs.  The
doors had nowhere to go other than against that wall,
and any time you opened a door, we stopped the line.
Now, if we're stopping the line from way down there,
can you imagine what it was on the 90th floor just
below the hit and everybody's trying to rush out and
they're fucking opening doors?  Every time you opened a
door, you stopped the line.  That's like kicking me in
the head.  I bring it up to people now, these doors
should be sliding doors in all the newer buildings.  I
know you can't do it now but...
     Q.   It's after the fact.
          So actually you're walking up the stairs.
Intermittently you're stopping.  So how far are you
walking up and about how long does it take you to go
up?
     A.   See, I only know that by the time we get to
the 24th floor, that's when the first building
collapsed, the south tower.
     Q.   Is that had highest point you remember
getting to is the 24th floor?
     A.   Twenty-third or fourth.  I'm not sure.
9
G. GORMAN
     Q.   Okay.  And that was around the same time of
the first --
     A.   I can tell you who was in that office.  It
was Blue Cross/Blue Shield.
     Q.   The same floor as Blue Cross/Blue Shield; is
that what you're saying?
     A.   That was the 18th floor for sure, the 19th
floor.  I'm not sure what was on the 24th floor.
Anyway --
     Q.   So, in other words, you wound up stopping at
that point, then, to the 24th?
     A.   Yes.  We stopped a couple times.
     Q.   Go ahead.
     A.   We stopped.  10 we stopped and like 13th,
14th, 15th floor.  Then around the 18th floor the guy
Derek was saying he had chest pains, our guy.  He had
chest pains and we went to check him out.  We got
water.  I remember cops opened up the water, you know,
the machines and stuff.
          On that floor, on the 18th floor, there was
already a lady, a black lady, she had air from a
respirator which was on the floor.  She was being
attended to and I was now looking for a respirator for
Derek because Manny had gone.  We thought Manny was
10
G. GORMAN
with that burn victim, maybe out of the building
helping her or I don't know.  I didn't know.  We didn't
know.  So we went to help her.  We were helping Derek.
          In the meantime, I'm trying to find the rest
of the guys of 10 Engine and our officer.  We're trying
to find them.  We were supposed to be together because
that whole time we're thinking we're still going up
there to put the fire out.  Later on we're hearing,
now, after the fact, that people were saying there was
an evacuation when that plane hit, the second plane
hit, from the get-go.  We didn't know.  Because we're
trying to call down to say that we had a firefighter
down.  At this time there were a lot of Maydays, a lot
of Maydays going on for firemen with chest pains, a
shitload of them.
     Q.   You mean that you were aware of; you heard a
lot of Maydays?
     A.   Yes.  You were like at that point, because
you had your hands full yourself.  You couldn't help.
So I'm trying to get oxygen for our guy, but when we
were looking around, I ran into the guys at 1 Truck at
that point and we started forcing doors.  We were
looking for fucking oxygen for Derek.  We didn't find
any.  So then I tried to call up by the fire phone, you
11
G. GORMAN
know, the red phone, call down.  There was no answer.
     Q.   The fire warden's phone?
     A.   Yes.  We tried the fire warden's phone to
call down to the lobby command post.  Nobody picked
up.  Nothing.  Dead.  It seemed like it was dead.  I
mean, we still had electricity and stuff, we still had
running water.
     Q.   The lights were still working up there?
     A.   Yes.  Because I remember taking a coffee pot
and just throwing water over our heads like that.  So
we had water.  There was water working in those pipes.
We don't know if the standpipes worked.  But I would
have loved to have tested the standpipes, but it was
too crowded in that stairwell to do it.
Q. You never knew.
A. I mean, we're trying to go two floors below. Q. Of course.
A. It would be nice to know but....
Q. So you were attending to --
A. Derek. So, finally, we probably gettoa
land line, I called 911 and I said there's a fireman
down.  That was definitely the Blue Cross office.  I
went into a cubicle.
     Q.   You used a telephone?
12
G. GORMAN
     A.   Yes.  I walked into the cubicle and called.
     Q.   You got a 911 operator?
     A.   Yes.  Or did I call the dispatcher?  You
know, I don't even remember.
     Q.   You identified yourself as --
     A.   A fireman in the building.  It was either the
fire dispatcher or -- I might have just called the fire
dispatcher.  I don't remember, obviously.
     Q.   In other words, you don't know if you called
on the 261 number or the 911 number?
     A.   Yes.  I don't remember.  I think I probably
called 261.  I'm sure it would be on tape if you still
got it, you know, tell them we had a firefighter down.
Then we tried to make our way up again.  We made a
push.  He said I feel all right, dah-dah-dah, then he
felt bad again.  Then a couple Port Authority cops came
up with oxygen, and as we were administering the air,
we ran into a couple of guys in 9 truck who were having
problems themselves.
          Meanwhile, somewhere in this whole picture, I
was trying to find a Chief -- now I'm going back and
forth because things are popping in my head.  But like
on the 18th floor, after we called the dispatcher or
whatever I did, I remember telling -- I was trying to
13
G. GORMAN
find -- like I only found a Captain and I said, is
there any way we can tell the people down below to drop
their roll-ups, to drop their weight, basically.  We're
hauling up there, but we're going to be in no shape to
do anything.
     Q.   No.  It was just like just get the manpower
up there.
     A.   Yeah, get the manpower.  We'll bring the
hoses.  We got the hoses this far, so let's get the
guys behind us to drop their roll-ups because it's
fucking -- you know, I'm not thinking there's 20
fucking floors higher either.  My sense is we've got to
hit the first fire we see and that's it.  I remember
doing that.  I don't remember who I told it to.  I
remember the guy had a mustache, but I didn't see his
picture or anything.  I think he's a Captain
somewhere.
          There was something else that I wanted to
say.  We marched up to the 23rd, 24th floor, like I
said, and the Port Authority cops came and they gave
Derek oxygen, and somewhere during this thing there was
a huge rumbling and we were about to mount up there --
oh, I know what I wanted to say.
          On the 18th floor, when I ran back into the
14
G. GORMAN
guys at 10 Engine and they were resting and they were
throwing water on themselves and trying to cool off and
we were doing the same thing, I asked them where their
officer was.  They didn't know.  So they called him on
the radio, Gregg Atlas, and they said to him, 10, 10,
backup, or 10 control to 10, whoever the control kid
was, and they found him.  He was on the 43rd or 46th
floor.  So he was 23 floors ahead of us.  But right
there, when he got the initial break-in to that
stairwell, that was like enough where he probably had a
clear path, you know, he's a little lighter so he went
faster.
     Q.   He made it that much faster than you guys?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Plus he's not carrying any additional
weight.
A. SoI wanted to bring that up. I'm sure they
do, too.  They did.  They're now being interviewed.
But he was 23 floors ahead of us at the time.  Well, it
was on the 18th floor when we made that call.
     Q.   So you recall him mentioning that he was --
     A.   I was next to the guy when he called.
     Q.   He actually called on the radio?
     A.   Yes.
15
G. GORMAN
     Q.   And he actually made contact with him; he
said he's on the 40-something floor?
     A.   43rd or 46th floor.  We said, oh, shit, he's
way ahead of us.  But he never asked us where we were.
He must have had his hands full, too.
     Q.   I'm surprised you were able to get through
that many floors on the radio.
     A.   Yes.  We didn't think of that.  We fucking
didn't think of that shit.  I mean, you're hearing
Maydays like crazy.
          So now I get back to we're on the 23rd, 24th
floor, we're drinking water, we're getting loaded up
again to go back up, we're taking our roll-ups again
because we didn't hear nothing about no this is an
evacuation.  We still don't know, of course, and we're
trying to stay together with 10.  We're like making
more and more of an effort to stay together because
it's very hard.
          Then it was like a fucking rumbling.  It was
like an earthquake.  It was like worse and worse.  All
the windows blew in.  It got real dark.
     Q.   The floor you were on, the windows blew in?
     A.   Yes.  I think so.
     Q.   Wow.  So, in other words, they gave way?
16
G. GORMAN
     A.   I think.  I think.  I remember diving into
the core of the building by the elevators.  I fucking
forgot my mask, dove in, just diving.  It was like an
earthquake.  It was shaking and then the lights went
out and it got shitty in there.  We all made it back in
the stairway, all got out -- I mean, our officer,
Lieutenant Bohack, said that's it, we're going out.
That's it, we're out of here.  He made the call.  I
don't know if he heard it on the radio or not.  I
didn't hear it.  He said, we're getting out of here.  I
found my mask.  Actually, Eddie Mecner gave it to me.
He was the chauffeur who came up with us.  We started
our way down and there were still civilians coming down
but less, not as thick.
     Q.   There were still people coming?
     A.   Yes.  But they weren't like from offices.
Some of them looked like custodians and stuff of some
sort, and I started sharing my mask with them going
down the stairs.  We just turned the regular air on
because at first, the first guy put it on didn't take a
breath, so I just turned the thing on and give it to
him.  Every time we hit a landing, I gave him a quick
hit, a couple, three, four people, I gave them quick
hits on the way down.  It was dark.  You could only see
17
G. GORMAN
the reflector lights.  My flashlight died.  It always
dies when you need it.
          We start our way down.  We start our way down
and the rest of the company had switched stairs at some
point and I didn't know that because I was lagging
behind with those civilians, I guess.  I didn't hear
them switch and I kept going down the same staircase.
I don't know if it was A, B, C.
     Q.   What did they switch?
     A.   They switched staircases.
     Q.   They switched staircases?
     A.   Somebody told one of the guys like on the
fourth floor that it was locked and you can't get out,
so they switched.  But I didn't know that.  I guess he
had bad information or maybe I did switch and didn't
even know.  I don't even remember.
          So I kept on going down and then I hit the
bottom of the staircase where there's like some sort of
a custodian locker area, and there were two guys from
20 Truck there that were leading the people out.  I
forget the name of the black guy and some guy -- the
guy I told you that Burnside relieved, that guy.  I
forgot his name now.  I know the faces in my head.
          So they led us out and we actually went
18
G. GORMAN
through this custodian area, the lockers and stuff like
that, and we ended up not on the lobby level but the
level above, like that mezzanine level.  We ended up
there and there were doors going out into that -- not
the concourse level, I guess, that's the lower level,
but the outside level, the park area level on Vesey
Street.  Remember where they used to have the concerts
and that globe thing and the fountains?
     Q.   This is outdoors now?
     A.   No, I'm not outdoors yet, but that's where it
led to.
     Q.   That's where it leads to?
     A.   Right.
     Q.   Because you're actually like --
     A.   In the lobby but on the mezzanine.
     Q.   So from that stairway you were coming down,
you actually wound up in the custodial locker area?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Not directly into it but --
     A.   Yes.  We went right by it.  We went right in
it.  I walked right through it.
Q. Really?
     A.   There were lockers.  I think it was a
custodial locker area.  I think.  Then I got there and
19
G. GORMAN
there was a cop at the door, but he was off duty.  I
remember talking with him later.  He was putting his
retirement papers in or vacation papers in or something
like that.  I can't remember.
          There was a guy, he was in one of the smaller
buildings, 4 or 5 World Trade Center, he's under the
overhang of that and he was looking up, and he was
looking up because bodies were jumping and he was
giving us the go, okay, when to let people out to go,
and at that point we started letting the civilians out
and they ran.  They got led out.  There was a guy, he
was a lookout, and he looked out and, I mean, this is
like -- it must have took 15 minutes to get down those
stairs, I guess.  Maybe.  I don't know.  I have no idea
how long I was out there.
          A Chief came over to me and ordered me to
help, you know, help them get back.  All right.  He was
a black guy and I've never seen him before.  I have no
idea who the hell he is.  I still don't know.  So he
ordered us to stay there and help.  So I was helping,
we were letting people out, they were coming down and
coming down, and it was not a steady stream, but it was
like three here, three there, like three then a minute
break.  I remember looking down the lobby and seeing
20
G. GORMAN
like companies coming in and coming out.  I could see
them marching through the lobbies.  I didn't know who
they were.
          Then it was the last batch.  We were --
     Q.   So you're observing this from an upper level?
     A.   Yes.  But you could see.  I just saw them
marching by like briefly.  I don't remember anybody I
know and stuff like that.
     Q.   Approximately what time do you think this is?
     A.   This is ten minutes before the collapse.  And
nobody, you know, like nobody -- at that point I did
not know the first building collapsed still.  Didn't
know.  We thought it was a missile attack or something
like that.  We thought we were under attack.  They
didn't have any idea that this building could
collapse.  I didn't hear nothing.  As a matter of fact,
the radio traffic I heard after the first building
collapsed, I remember distinctively somebody yelling
looking for Chief Barbera, yelling for Chief Barbera,
where are you, something like that.  I heard a Mayday
for a fireman down.  I thought I heard Ladder 3 give a
Mayday, either it was for a fireman with chest pains or
maybe the collapse.  I'm not sure.  It could be
something I heard about now and I'm still thinking in
21
G. GORMAN
my memory, you know?  I don't know.  Anyway, I didn't
know that first building collapsed.
     Q.   You didn't know.
     A.   No.  Didn't hear no evacuation, didn't hear
nothing over the PA system.  So the Chief told us stay,
and then there was a guy, some Port Authority emergency
service cops, an ESU cop, and a guy from Squad 18, Pat
Kelly, they had just brought a heart attack victim down
on a chair, a heavy guy, and had a hard time carrying
him through, and he was the last guy that they got
out.  So they had a hard time with all the debris
down.  They were rolling him, you know, once they got
him down on the lobby.  But once they got outside the
doors and they had the go-ahead, they had a hard time
getting him through the debris because they couldn't
roll him all the way and they had to pick him up and
stuff like that.
          Then me and the other guy, we looked and
there was nobody else coming.  For some reason we
decided to leave.  I don't know why.  We leave.  I
remember seeing as I got to the overhang on the other
end of the smaller buildings and --
     Q.   This is now you're exiting the building?
     A.   Exiting the building.
22
G. GORMAN
     Q.   Do you remember what exit, what door it led
out to?
     A.   That was the lobby on whatever area that --
what kind of area was that?  I'll tell you what it led
to.
     Q.   Does it go directly out to West Street?
     A.   No.  It goes to Vesey Street.  On Vesey
Street there's a staircase and escalators.  That's
where it led to.  So on the overhang I remember seeing
a frigging Bomb Squad cop and I asked him, what the
hell blew up?  He goes, I don't know.  Oh, shit.
Fucking he don't know.
          So I ended up going down there, and then
between the two small buildings there's an opening, a
space, and then I heard rumbling again right as I was
in that space, me and the Port Authority cops, the ESU
cop, the Bomb Squad cop, I guess, we heard the rumble.
We all ducked into the overhang of, I guess, 5 World
Trade Center, where the staircase was.  We ducked in
there and everything got dark.  I mean, it was like a
rumble and it was like another earthquake again.  I
just dove into by the window between two metal bars,
got down like that.  I had my mask.  I should have put
my mask on at that point.  I didn't think of it.
23
G. GORMAN
     Q.   It's still strapped to your back, your mask.
     A.   Yes.  But never on my face because it was a
sunny day, clear as a bell.
     Q.   But things are still on your back, though.
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   This is actually on Vesey?
     A.   That staircase is on Vesey.  I got a picture
at home of it.  It's an outside staircase.
     Q.   It's on the opposite side of the street of
Vesey?
     A.   No.  It's on the same side.
     Q.   It's on the Trade Center side?
     A.   Yes, with the escalators and stuff.
     Q.   This is where you're jumping into right now?
     A.   Yes.  I jumped into that and all the dirt
came in your face, it got real black and dark, couldn't
see, and all the dirt, it was just like you had your
mouth closed but it like forced its way in, there was
so much pressure.  I started gagging on it and then I
started choking.  I thought that was it, you know, and
then here we go, I mean, here we go.  And it stopped.
It got quiet.  It just stopped right before I was ready
to fricking -- I mean, I was eating the crap.  It got
dark and we stayed there and I remember the cop behind
24
G. GORMAN
me goes, this is the second time it happened to me, I
think it was a Port Authority cop, the second time it
happened to me, and we were standing there, like we
just waited until it lifted.
     Q.   You were holed together there for a little
while?  How long were you there for?
     A.   I don't know.  Five minutes, ten minutes.  I
don't know.
     Q.   It was still totally dark.
     A.   Yes.  Then it like lifted and we went down
the stairs and kind of like you dug yourself out a
little bit.  It's not much dirt but --
     Q.   What do you mean, you went down the stairs?
You still were not at sidewalk level at this point?
A. No.
     Q.   This is still taking place where you were
huddled on the --
     A.   We're on top of the staircase.  Top of the
staircase.
     Q.   So when everything cleared away --
     A.   We went down the stairs.
     Q.   Was it accessible to move through the way you
were going?
     A.   Yes.  We just walked down the stairs.
25
G. GORMAN
     Q.   It was cluttered with debris?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   But it's not like any of the people that you
were next to or near were trapped?
     A.   No, nothing.  We didn't hit a thing.  Like I
said, I didn't know that building collapsed then
either.  That never went in my head.  The Trade Center,
shit, you didn't think of it.  You couldn't tell if you
looked up.  There was nothing to look up to.  It was
black.  If I had looked up, I still wouldn't have seen
it.  I wouldn't have known.
          Let's go, I know the way out, one of the cops
said, and you came out and you were on Vesey Street and
all you see was cars on fire all over the place.  I was
like shook up, I guess.  I went down Vesey Street.  We
went down Vesey Street and I hear this guy screaming
the ESU truck is going to blow because they were
worried about the ammo, I guess.
     Q.   Oh, really?
     A.   It's going to blow, get out of here.  I went
down to is it Murray Street?  It started clearing up
around there.
     Q.   This is walking on what street, West Street
now, most likely?
26
G. GORMAN
     A.   No.  Washington.
     Q.   You were walking down Washington?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Toward Murray?
     A.   Yes.  No, Greenwich.  It's Greenwich Street.
     Q.   So you were walking north on Greenwich
Street?
     A.   You know what?  I don't know about that.  I
can't tell on this map.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   Murray.   I ended up on Murray, going down
Greenwich.
     Q.   So you were with the cop?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Anybody else from 5 Engine that was --
     A.   No.  I lost them early.  I lost them.  I was
alone.
     Q.   And those two guys from 20 Truck?
     A.   They had left beforehand.  I was like the
last guy leaving.  Some guys here think I'm the last
guy out, but I guess those guys from 6 Truck were.
     Q.   Knowing how people split up at that
particular incident, I mean, no one company remained
intact totally.  So you were with nobody from 5 Engine
27
G. GORMAN
and then nobody recognizable from any of the
surrounding companies when it actually collapsed?
     A.   As a matter of fact, going down the stairs, I
heard my officer call me on the radio.  He called me by
name and I tried to call him back and I couldn't get
through.  I tried and I tried and I couldn't get
through.  It was just, you know, there were 500 guys.
     Q.   As you were coming down the stairs?
     A.   Yes.  I guess when he thought he lost me,
which he did.  So anyway, I went down Warren Street.  I
remember some black guy giving me water or something
and there was a bar to the left going towards West
Street and the guy is like go in here.  So I went in
there and I got like water or something to drink and
from there I called my wife to tell her I got out.  It
was the Brady Bunch Tavern.
     Q.   That you were safe and that you made it out
of there?
     A.   Yes.  Because they didn't know, you know.  I
talked to her, then left there.  You wouldn't believe
that the bar was packed.  There were people there in
the bar drinking.  I figured there was like three guys
there.  I don't know.
     Q.   They probably didn't know what was happening
28
G. GORMAN
themselves either at that point.
     A.   I didn't even look at the TV or anything like
that.
     Q.   So, unfortunately, you lost contact with
them.  Any significant things other than what we
discussed, anything that's significant that you think
you need to add?
     A.   No.
     Q.   Like people that you had seen?
     A.   I saw Timmy McSweeney from 3 Truck in the
lobby on the way up.  Like I said, I saw that guy,
Gregg Atlas.  I remember that guy, Gregg Atlas.
     Q.   He was also in the lobby?
     A.   Atlas was the officer from 10 Engine who
died.
     Q.   That's the person that you had the last --
     A.   That's the guy who talked on the radio.
     Q.   -- radio contact with him?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   And he said he was approximately --
     A.   Twenty-three floors ahead of us.
     Q.   Up on the 40th something floor, right?
     A.   Yes.  So he was way ahead of us.  McSweeney
was the only guy I saw from 3 Truck, but he just walked
29
G. GORMAN
by.  I didn't really say nothing to him.   I'm good
friends with him.  I didn't see guys who I know around
here at 33.  I remember seeing 39 Engine going past us
at one point when we had the problem with Derek, and I
was telling the guys, take your time, take a blow.  I
remember telling that to the kid.  I think they got
out.  Somebody said to me they were trapped below 6
Truck.  I didn't know that story.  There's so many it's
ridiculous.
     Q.   There's some good stories that come out of
this also, you know, people that wound up being trapped
for a little while and then they wound up coming out of
it alive.
     A.   I mean, we got more people out just staying
there.  Also, while I was there in the lobby, the guy
who was looking up when the bodies were jumping, the
bodies would jump and you'd hear a huge explosion and
you'd see just blood spatter on the windows.  It was
like gruesome.  It was bad.
          Anyway, we went down Warren Street and we ran
into the guy we saw before, Richie Carletti.  I ran
into him.
     Q.   This is later on.  This is after you had left
the bar.
30
A. Yes.
G. GORMAN
31
     Q.   Exactly.  So we know you took a rest over
there in the bar area.
     A.   Right.  I was looking for my company and
trying to make contact with them.
     Q.   The lighting had died out early on, like
after that first collapse.
     A.   There was no light.
     Q.   So on the way down there was no lighting in
that stairway at all.
     A.   No.  Only just the reflective black paint,
that's it.
     Q.   Like you say, your flashlight went dead?
     A.   Yes.  Like it always does when you need it.
          So I went down Warren Street.  I was glad to
see Richie.  He was going to clean me up, but he said
he saw 5 Engine and at that time I thought Manny was
all right.
     Q.   Like you said, the last you knew of him he
was carrying oxygen into the building in addition to
his roll-up I would imagine?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Carrying oxygen and an extra cylinder maybe?
     A.   We were all like frigging pack mules.
G. GORMAN
     Q.   Like carrying whatever you could at that
point.
     A.   It's like, in hindsight, maybe it wasn't the
greatest idea in the world.  But when we left the rig,
we didn't know the elevator was out.
     Q.   How we depend on the elevators normally.
     A.   We're not designed to walk that many floors.
     Q.   No?
     A.   I mean, this gear is designed for five
stories of walk-up, not 90.
     Q.   Exactly.
     A.   What can be designed for 90 stories of
walk-up?  There should be a policy.  I mean, if we've
got a 20-story walk-up like we had at the Waterside.
We had the Waterside fire in April and the elevators
went bad.  We made it up there first due, so it was all
right for us, but the companies that came behind us had
to walk 24 stories and they're shot.
     Q.   Of course.  You're totally exhausted.  Your
legs start to give out at that point.
     A.   Not only that.  The worst part is, you keep
on talking about the weight, but the worst part is
you're in a frigging oven.  There's nowhere for the
heat to go.  You'll never run around a block in a coat,
32
G. GORMAN
you know?
     Q.   I know.  Our bodies are giving off a lot of
heat, you're working, your metabolism is working.
     A.   That's why there should be like, if there is
a huge calamity, there should be some sort of like
every other company drop their roll-ups, like lighten
the load or something like that, because it's just --
some sort of system because, you know, we do depend on
the elevators.
Q. True.
     A.   If the elevators aren't going, we have no
other plan.
     Q.   Absolutely not.
     A.   So, I mean, that's what I'm trying to bring
up.  I don't know who to talk to.
     Q.   And you knew early on that the elevators were
not --
     A.   I said, oh, shit.  It maybe saved my life.
It might have saved my life, the elevators being out.
     Q.   Right.  But you knew 10 Engine had said that
we're going to have to take the stairs after you teamed
up with them.
     A.   Right.  But I think it may have saved my
life.  We went up there to put a fire out, but then
33
G. GORMAN
again, who knows, if we put water on it, it would have
done anything.  You don't know.
     Q.   You wouldn't have maybe know how close you
wouldn't have gotten.  I mean, all good intention, but
you don't realize how close you would have gotten.
     A.   We don't know.
     Q.   All right.
     A.   Also, then, when I got up on Warren Street --
     Q.   Up until that point, then, when --
     A.   I remember going on West Street, I'm hearing
calling for 33 Engine on the radio.  I thought they
were all right.  I was shocked.
     Q.   This is at what point you heard them on the
radio?
     A.   I didn't hear them on the radio.  I heard
them calling for 33 Engine.  I thought they answered,
but it wasn't them, when I was on West.
     Q.   This is, again, later on, after the collapse?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   We're going to concentrate up until that
point then.
     A.   All right.  I'm going to tell the whole
story.
     Q.   That's okay.
34
G. GORMAN
     A.   I ended up in the hospital twice that day.
     Q.   No, that's all right.  But the thing is we're
just trying to get back to the collapse.  That's all
right.
     A.   I ended up in the hospital twice, but I never
put my name down or nothing.
     Q.   You were probably in a state of shock of what
had happened.
     A.   That, too.  And I felt like I wasn't that
hurt, so I thought there'd be so many more people
coming and I wanted to get the hell out of the way.
     Q.   More serious injured.
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Even though you might have been in shock and
upset and injured.
     A.   I didn't want them wasting their time.
     Q.   No.  You would think serious injuries are
going to come out of this.
     A.   Not enough, I guess.
     Q.   All right.  So we'll take this as -- unless
there's something else really significant you want to
put into this.
     A.    Also, when I came in that morning,
Lieutenant Paul Mitchell was here.  He was relieved by
35
G. GORMAN
Bohack.  He was sitting at the door.  He was leaving.
     Q.   He was the officer that worked the night
before in 5 Engine?
     A.   Apparently.  I don't know what happened to
him.
     Q.   He was also amongst the missing people?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   He was working here?
     A.   Right.
     Q.   He already left, though?
     A.   I don't know.  He was in the midst of leaving
when we got the run.
     Q.   But you had gotten that run before this whole
thing.
     A.   Like 8:30, yes.  So I don't know.
     Q.   All right.
     A.   I'd just like to make the points like I was
just making.
     Q.   Which is good.
     A.   The stairways, there weren't enough
stairways.  I don't know what the hell the papers were
talking about, how they were big enough.  They say they
were more than big enough for regulation.  To me that's
ridiculous.
36
G. GORMAN
     Q.   Not with the amount of people that were in
that building, the amount of people that were trying to
come down.  It was very tight.
     A.   No.
     Q.   Actually, you're going up single file --
     A.   Single file.
     Q.   -- and they're coming down single file, and
it's not continuous; you're pausing as you're going up,
right?
     A.   Yes.  It's not like continuous.  It's like
slow.
     Q.   And like you say, trying to open up doors, if
anybody tried to open up the door --
     A.   You stopped the flow.  That's why there
wasn't enough stairs.  Then you find out later it was
truss construction.  Like, oh, shit.  I didn't know.
See, if there is ever a plane that did that again or
anything of that magnitude and we really can't put that
fire out and we decide early the only thing we could do
is facilitate the self-evacuation, and like any person
coming down, if there's one person in the stairs, an
old lady, a guy who is a little bit too big or
whatever, I'm being politically correct, and they'll
clog the whole stairs and it's not even full and it's
37
G. GORMAN
clogging.
     Q.   He's hindering other people from coming
down.
     A.   If we somehow just take that guy and move him
along or that lady and you just move them along
quicker, we are saving more people up there.  I mean,
on a regular high-rise fire, that's not true.  We just
go up there, we put the fire out the best way we can.
But if we ever have a situation like that, if we just
get in there and help the self-evacuation as quick as
we can, that would save more lives.
     Q.   It would make more of an impact.
     A.   Yes.  Even though they say we did and all
that.
     Q.   There probably could have been more people
that we could have gotten out of this thing.
     A.   Yes.  I mean, it's not Monday morning
quarterbacking, it's learning from it, because it's
just something nobody ever dealt with.
     Q.   No, of course not.  You're learning from
experience.
     A.   I just wish, you know, I don't know how they
could do this in a liable -- I don't know what goes
into this, but it would help.  That's my opinion, if
38
G. GORMAN
anybody wants it.
     Q.   Well, it's good to mention, right?
     A.   Yes.  I wanted to make sure -- I really
didn't want to do the interview, but I wanted to make
sure those points got out.  What I see in the paper, I
heard nothing about evacuation on the radio.  Nothing.
     Q.   I'll tell you, the way the building
construction is designed to evacuate only from the
floor where the incident is taking place down to a
couple floors below where it is, not your entire
building is being evacuated, I mean, you're clogging up
the stairways to a point where people can't safely make
it down, unless -- you know, we're talking about hours
here.  We're not talking about making it down very
quickly.
     A.   Yes.  I could only imagine what happened on
the floors below the fire, what clogging went on there.
Q. Right.
     A.   The building is on fire.  You can't do
nothing about who's already gone.
     Q.   No.  We have no control over the building.
     A.   We should.  Did you see this?  You see this?
You open this door, the people in here were stopped,
and these guys are pushing --
39
G. GORMAN
Q.   Trying to make it --
     (Interview ends abruptly.)
40
File No. 9110421
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         FIREFIGHTER JOHN AMATO
    Interview Date:  January 2, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
J. AMATO 2
          CHIEF MALKIN:  Today's date is January
     2, '02.  The time is 1330 hours.  This is
     Battalion Chief Malkin of the Safety
     Battalion.  I'm conducting an interview
     today with Firefighter third grade John
     Amato, Engine 68.  We're in the quarters of
     Engine 68.  There's nobody else in this room
     at this time.  The interview concerns the
     events of September 11th.  What follows is
     the interview.
     A.   We got the call early that morning to
go to 35 Engine.  We got down to 35 Engine.  We
mucked it up with a bunch of other companies.  We
took some equipment from 35 Engine.  Then we got
the call to go down to the World Trade Center.
          As we were driving down to the World
Trade Center -- actually we took a little detour
because a couple of -- I think 64 Engine was
leading us.  We didn't exactly know how to get
down there, which delayed us a little bit, thank
God.
          When we got down there, we parked I'd
say maybe 10 blocks, 10 to 12 blocks away from
the World Trade Center.  We gathered all the
J. AMATO 3
equipment, the rollups, the standpipe kit, and we
started walking down the West Side Highway.
          As we were walking down -- actually as
we were driving down, we heard that the first
building had collapsed, which is the south tower?
     Q.   The south tower collapsed first.
     A.   The south tower collapsed first.  We
didn't know what kind of collapse it was.  We
thought it was a partial collapse.  We thought it
was maybe two floors pancaking.
          At that point we were walking towards
the building.  We still didn't know it was a
total collapse.  As we get closer and closer, we
notice that the smoke is clearing.  We don't see
the south tower.  Now we're starting to talk to
each other, started to actually worry what's in
for us next.
          As we approached Chambers Street, kept
walking, still no one had told us about the total
collapse.  We get down to about Barclay and Vesey
Street, which is a block away from the overpass,
the bridge overpass that goes across the West
Side Highway.
          All you hear is a rumbling in the
J. AMATO 4
street.  It sounded like an earthquake.  When I
was a younger kid, I was in an earthquake and it
felt like the same exact feeling.  I looked, and
I could see the antenna on the top of the roof
coming straight down.
          We all turned and just threw our
rollups down and started running as fast as we
could.  I took about five steps, I turned back to
look behind me, and the debris was on my heels.
Guys were just scrambling through the streets.
Finally the debris overcame us, and you couldn't
see anymore.  It was like pitch-black, total
darkness.
          I kind of ran into a building.  I hit
the building.  One of the gentlemen working in
the building I think I see was an engineer pulled
me over towards the entrance.  I went into the
entrance.  You couldn't see.  It was dark as
night.
          Finally a few minutes went by, about
four or five minutes went by, it started
clearing, and we started looking for members of
Engine 68 as well as all the other engines that
had driven down with us.
J. AMATO 5
          We found everyone.  We were told to
stay at Chambers Street until further notice.
          That's about it.
     Q.   That's about it?  So you stayed at
Chambers Street?
     A.   We stayed at Chambers Street.  They
didn't give us permission to go back in there,
since we had already been involved with the
collapse.
     Q.   So you stayed there for some period of
time at Chambers, the staging area?
     A.   The staging area, yeah.
     Q.   And then from there you left?  You took
your rig back to 68 at some point?
     A.   Oh, yeah, I'd say about 11 p.m. that
night.
     Q.   Wow.
     A.   Yeah, we stayed there the whole day.
     Q.   The whole day, and they never put you
work?
A. No.
     Q.   Were there a lot of companies at the
staging area?
     A.   There were a lot of companies there.
J. AMATO 6
They just didn't want anyone involved with the
immediate collapse back in there.  That was their
idea.  Since we were on paper as one of the
companies, they didn't want us to go.
     Q.   You really didn't interact with any
other companies or anything like that?  You were
walking in, it started to collapse, you ran out,
wound up at the staging area eventually, and
that's about it.
          Is everybody from 68 okay?
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   Everybody came back?
     A.   Yes.  We had minor injuries from
running into, not being able to see.  We did have
some minor injuries, including myself.
          CHIEF MALKIN:  Okay.  It's 1336 hours.
     This concludes the interview with Fireman
     Amato.  I thank him for the interview, and
     that's the end.
File No. 9110422
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         FIREFIGHTER PAUL QUINN
    Interview Date:  January 8, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
P. QUINN 2
          CHIEF MALKIN:  Today's date is January
     8th, 2002.  The time is 2028 hours.  This is
     Battalion Chief Malkin of the Safety
     Battalion.  I'm conducting an interview with
     Firefighter first grade Paul Quinn of Engine
     55.  We're at the quarters of Engine 55.
     Also Chief O'Donnell from the Safety
     Battalion is in the room at this time.  What
     follows is the interview.
     Q.   Can you just start where you were when
you got the run.
A. Okay. Wewereataboxon--Ihadmy
rig parked on Church and Canal Street for I think
it was either a gas leak or an odor of gas.  I
don't know what time that came in.  It came in
before the run, obviously, for the Trade Center.
          I guess the chief was getting ready to
let us go, and we heard a big bang.  I thought it
was -- first, because it was a run for either a
gas odor or a leak, that maybe something exploded
in the street.
          The officer looked out, my officer, and
he saw the tower.  A couple floors looked like
they were all aflame, one floor or whatever.  So
P. QUINN 3
the chief told us to go down there.  He let I
guess all the companies go to the Trade Center.
          We got down there.  The officer told
me -- when we got there, he said, "Help 7 Engine
stretch to the standpipe.  See if you can find a
hydrant.  See if you can get water."  So I did
that.  I started to help 7 Engine's chauffeur.  I
put my bunker gear on and stuff.
          I looked up, and somebody said there
was an airplane.  So I thought, okay, it was a
small Cessna or something like that that hit the
building.  I'm looking up and I say, okay,
there's a lot of fire, but it's vented.  There's
going to be a couple of hose lines we're going to
need to do this.
          So I helped 7 Engine.  There was a guy
in the street, and there was a civilian with him
and another fireman.  We put him in a stokes
basket and brought him over to an ambulance on
the southbound side of West Street, brought him
over the median and put him in an ambulance.
          I went back to work.  I was helping him
and stretching lines.  My time frame is all off.
I can't put anything into chronological order.
Q. Okay.
P. QUINN 4
A. Igotalinetomyrigto10Engine, then hooked up into one of the buildings, and just the bodies were falling. It was a mess. Guys were coming off rigs.
          As I said, companies were coming in.  I
can't tell you what companies.  I know I saw --
guys were taking masks.  The guys were coming in.
Extra guys were coming in off the rigs, coming in
more than they were assigned with.  They were
getting masks from different rigs, I guess.  One
of the guys took one of the masks and the other
guy got another mask from the rig.
     Q.   Listen, this is not mandatory.  If this
is too difficult, just tell me.  I'm not here to
question you at all.
     A.   Yeah, I know.
     Q.   You don't have to do this.  You can
decline this.  I'm not ordering you to do this.
A. Yeah.
     Q.   I feel for your position.  If you find
it too difficult, just tell me and we'll stop and
we'll just call it a day.  You don't have to do
this.
P. QUINN 5
     A.   Yeah, I know, I know.
          You're asking me what units showed up.
     Q.   If you remember.
     A.   I think that I saw 5 Truck.  I'm not
sure.  I think I remember seeing one of the guys.
I said, "Do you have a mask?"  Now I'm looking
for masks and stuff like this.
          I was by the rig, and somebody said the
building's starting to come down, take off.  So I
started to run, and the north overpass, the
pedestrian, I was kind of like there, and I got
behind that or in front of one of the rigs.  I
was either going to go underneath it or -- I got,
I guess, near the front grill, the front bumper.
          I stayed there until the -- it felt
like a damn tornado.  It was black for a long
time.  I was near the median, so I kind of made
my way north.  I had the dust and the soot and
swallowing the debris, whatever you want to call
it.  My eyes hurt bad.  My eyes were bad.  I felt
like I was closing them on sand paper, kind of.
          Then the other guy, Bobby, caught me.
He kind of saw me.  Made it to another ambulance
and they gave me oxygen and I guess water and
P. QUINN 6
stuff like that.  Then they told us we had to
evacuate that because the second building was
going to come down.
          So I got out of there and I'm walking
around.  I'm trying to find -- I went one way --
I don't know where this ambulance was.  I get out
of there.  It was a M.E.R.V.  It had a ramp.  You
didn't step up on it.  So I get out of there, and
I'm walking around, "Where should we go?" or
something like that.  So somebody said, "No, go
this way."  So they pushed, and I guess I just
followed the rest of the crowd or whatever.  The
second tower started to come down, I guess the
north tower at that time.
          We made it into a construction booth, a
construction trailer.  Again it turned dark.  It
turned black.  I was going to go behind that.
But I was kind of like in the middle of a crowd
with a bunch of cops and firemen.  I made it into
this construction trailer, and I looked out the
window.  Again, it was black.
          I tell you, my time and the sequence is
all off.  I went up to where the command post --
I was going to go outside and see if I could do
P. QUINN 7
anything, but my eyes, they were hurting, they
were burning.  So every time I'd go out -- I'm
useless if I try to go out and do something here.
So I guess after a while -- my time is all off.
          I made it up to the command post, and I
saw somebody.  I started losing it.  I eventually
made it to Beekman Downtown Hospital, and my
brother found me.  Later on that afternoon we
came back here.
     Q.   Your brother's name is John?
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   Okay.  That's good?
          CHIEF MALKIN:  This concludes the
     interview with Firefighter Paul Quinn.  The
     time is now 2036 hours.
File No. 9110423
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER ROBERT SIRAGUSA
    Interview Date:  January 8, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
R. SIRAGUSA 2
          CHIEF MALKIN:  Today's date is January
     8th, 2002.  The time is 2041 hours.  This is
     Battalion Chief Malkin of the Safety
     Battalion.  I'm conducting an interview at
     this time with Fireman First Grade Robert
     Siragusa, Engine Company 55.  We're in the
     office of Engine 55.  Also in the room is
     Chief O'Donnell from the Safety Battalion.
     What follows is the interview.
     A.   I was at the firehouse approximately
8:15 that morning.  We were waiting for the
company to return to quarters.  They were out on
a run previous before we got in.  Then as we were
waiting -- actually from the television we found
out that a plane had hit the Trade Center.
          We then proceeded probably a little
after 9 -- yeah, I guess it was around 9:15.  We
knew obviously the company wasn't coming back any
time soon.  So I and two members from the night
crew that worked the previous night that were
relieved already decided we were going to get in
one of the private cars and go down to the site.
          As we were proceeding to the site, we
had word on the news, on the car radio, that a
R. SIRAGUSA 3
second plane had hit the Trade Center en route.
We found out that that had happened.  We
approximately arrived at the Trade Center complex
about five minutes after the second plane had
hit.
          At this time we had had our bunker gear
with us, and we had proceeded to the command post
on West Street, which we mainly remained there
for most of the next 20 minutes.  We had debated
on whether we should go into the building and
help out, look for our company, but we decided
probably not to because we had no SCPA, we had no
gear, we had no radios and nobody would know
where we were if we got lost or split up.
          So we basically stayed in the street,
thinking that sooner or later we would get up
there to relieve or help the company, whoever
needed help.
          We did help stretch some lines in front
of the building with the engine companies,
helping the chauffeurs in the street.  As we did,
debris was flying out the windows.  Bodies were
flying out the windows.  It was getting pretty
bad in front of the building.
R. SIRAGUSA 4
          A couple minutes later one of the
chiefs on the scene -- I don't remember who it
was -- ordered all personnel in the street to
remove themselves across West Street, which is
basically where we stood on West Street directly
across from One World Trade Center for the next
couple of minutes, watching the insanity.
          Probably a couple minutes after that I
think -- what time did the first building come
down?  I don't even remember.  Whatever it was,
9:20 or 9:40 or something.
     Q.   9:55 south tower collapses, 9:55.
     A.   That was the first one.  Okay.
          So then we basically remained at the
command post along with a lot of other firemen.
     Q.   At the time that the south tower came
down, you guys stayed there?  Were you enveloped
in the cloud?
     A.   Actually as we heard a radio
transmission of "Collapse, collapse, collapse,"
that's when everybody just went their own way.  I
looked up and I saw the top couple of floors
starting to come down.  So I took off into the
building directly across from the World Trade
R. SIRAGUSA 5
Center, which was --
     Q.   On the west side of West Street?
     A.   West side of West Street, which was
probably the World Financial Center, it was
called.  We ran in there, a few of us, about 10,
12 guys.  We ran into the building, ran about 50
yards to the rear of the building and dove behind
a wall.  Then we heard the tremendous roar and
collapse of the first tower coming down.
          We were pretty much safe from the dust
cloud because most of the windows stayed intact.
Only a few windows broke.  So we pretty much
survived that pretty well.
          Immediately after the building came
down, we then came back out to the front of the
building in front of West Street and saw the
collapse.
          At that time there was a couple of guys
really in bad shape in front of the building,
guys that probably didn't get far enough away,
that were kind of staggering in front of the
building.
          So what I did is I just grabbed a few
of those guys.  As a matter of fact, two of them,
R. SIRAGUSA 6
the chauffeur from 24 Engine and the chauffeur
from 55, who was working the night tour, who I
was supposed to relieve on the day tour, they
were in pretty bad shape.
          They were pretty much in shock.  They
didn't know what happened.  They were incoherent.
I kind of just walked them a few blocks north to
an ambulance to get them checked out, because I
didn't know if they were hurt seriously or not.
          After I made sure they were okay, got
them in the ambulance, I proceeded back down West
Street to the front of the Trade Center.  There
were numerous burning materials.  There were car
fires.  We proceeded to try to extinguish some of
them, but there was a big problem with the water.
There was very low water pressure.  We did have a
problem with that, but we did the best we could
trying to extinguish the perimeter fires all
around the area.
          Like I said, some guys did go back
right into the collapse area, but I stayed back
and did that.  As we were doing that, 30 seconds,
30 minutes later, whatever it was, there was
another transmission, probably a last-minute
R. SIRAGUSA 7
thing.  I heard, "Collapse, collapse" again.
This time the north tower started to fall.
          I took off running again.  This time I
ran west down towards the water on Vesey Street,
and this time we wound up in the park over there
by Battery City, I believe it is, or by the
waterfront, as the second tower collapsed.  The
second time it was down and was really insane.
There was a lot of firemen down at that end.
          Everybody was kind of pretty much in
shock at that time.  We didn't know what the hell
was going on or what to do.  So we regrouped with
a bunch of firemen.  With a bunch of guys we
regrouped.  We just came back to the front of the
building again.  This time it was a bigger mess
than it was the first time.
          A lot of the guys just went right to
work after that.  They just got right back in
that rubble, started looking for people.  Some
guys just kind of retreated and just sat down and
they were in shock, just gave up and just sat
there.  Some guys were just walking around in a
daze.
     Q.   They didn't believe it.
R. SIRAGUSA 8
          Were they pulling people off the pile?
Did you see any of that?
     A.   Not much, no.
     Q.   After a collapse there's supposed to be
surface victims.
A. Right.
     Q.   But it doesn't seem like there were any
surface victims.
     A.   No, the only surface victims, as you
know, were probably Ladder Company 6 and one or
two other people, I think.  But that was
basically it.  Everybody was pretty much buried
in there.
          It was just an eerie silence after
that.  It was an eerie silence, no radio
transmissions, nothing.  All you heard was Ladder
6 giving their mayday.  Everybody kind of
centered their attention on getting those guys
out.
          That's what we basically did.  We
continued to put out the perimeter fires.
     Q.   At some point did somebody take charge?
Were there any chiefs around or any officers that
said, okay, we're going to break into teams?  Did
R. SIRAGUSA 9
you get any sense of that?
     A.   Everybody was so widely scattered.  I
think Chief Blaich is probably the only guy I
really heard on the radio try to get something
going, yeah.  Basically, as I said, the first
concern was to find Ladder 6.  He kind of
organized everybody, let's find out where they
are, let's try to get them out.
          They were in the south tower, the
second stairwell.  Nobody knew exactly where that
was, because there was nothing left.
     Q.   So Blaich was sending teams of guys to
go try to kind Ladder 6 in whatever stairwell?
     A.   Right, right.  They were trying to get
into the rubble area.
          Then basically after that the fire
boats came in, because we had no water.  So
basically most of the day and the next couple of
hours I was stretching line from the fire boat.
I teamed up with a bunch of guys getting water
from the fire boat in front of the Trade Center.
          Basically that's what I was doing for
the rest of the day, just stretching a couple
lines back and forth, from out here, stretching
                  R. SIRAGUSA                  10
up Vesey in front of the building to the
manifolds.
          That was basically what the day was
about.  I don't know if I can get into any detail
than that.
     Q.   That's okay.
          How did you finish up the day?  You
worked there until 10:00 at night, you said?
     A.   Just about 9:00, when I teamed up with
my company.  We finally teamed up, because there
was only three of us there.  Basically after that
we kind after ran into each other about 8:30, 9,
and went back to the firehouse about 10.
          But the guy you just interviewed, Paul,
he was really in front of the building.  He was
the chauffeur that day.
     Q.   Yeah, he was saying.
     A.   He really got in there.  He walked out
without a scratch.  I think he dove under one of
the pedestrian bridges here.  He's a lucky man.
     Q.   He told me.
     A.   Yeah, yeah, he was a lucky man.
          Basically that's what the day was all
about.  Do you have any other questions?
                  R. SIRAGUSA                  11
     Q.   I'm trying to think.
          How long would you say, like, the first
building collapses until it cleared up, until you
could see what the lay of the land was?
     A.   But most of the dust cloud went north
and south, for some reason.  Not much came west,
for some reason -- I don't know -- because the
buildings were there.  They had the big tall
buildings across from West Street.  But most of
the dust went, like I said, north and south.
          So where I was, it cleared up pretty
quickly.  But to tell you how long it took to
clear, I would say it was pretty quick, minutes.
     Q.   Minutes?
     A.   Minutes, I think.
     Q.   And some guys jumped on the pile.  They
had an instinct or the wherewithal to try to jump
on the pile.
     A.   I believe some of them, yes.  Some guys
did jump up on the pile, jumped onto the
mezzanine in front of the World Trade Center.
There was like a mezzanine.  Other guys went up
there to look around.  They had a tower ladder
right there.
                  R. SIRAGUSA                  12
     Q.   Was there a lot of fire in the Trade
Center collapse area and stuff at this time?
     A.   No.  Basically there was a fire -- in
the part of the Trade Center that was standing,
the mezzanine area -- one of the towers?  It must
have been.  There was like about six or seven
stories left.  I don't know if that was -- was it
Eight World Trade, maybe?
Q. Yes.
     A.   I think it was Eight World Trade,
which --
     Q.   That was burning; right?
     A.   That was burning.
     Q.   That's what caused the fire in that.
     A.   That was definitely burning.  There was
a lot of perimeter fires, rubbish and cars.
     Q.   Cars, yeah.
     A.   And of course there was smoke coming
out but no active flame, not that I noticed
anyhow.  I don't remember.
     Q.   Okay.  About it?
     A.   That's about it.
     Q.   Good.  Okay.
          CHIEF MALKIN:  This concludes the
             R. SIRAGUSA                  13
interview.  I thank Firefighter Siragusa for
the interview.  The time is now 2053 hours
</XMP></BODY></HTML>
File No. 9110424
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER PETE METZGER
    Interview Date:  January 8, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
P. METZGER 2
          CHIEF MALKIN:  Today's date is January
     8th, 2002.  The time is 2058 hours.  This is
     Battalion Chief Malkin of the Safety
     Battalion.  I'm conducting an interview with
     Pete Metzger, fireman fourth, Engine 55,
     regarding the events of September 11th.
     Also in the room is Battalion Chief
     O'Donnell of the Safety Battalion.  What
     follows now is the interview with Fireman
     Metzger.
     A.   On the morning of September 11th I got
relieved about 8:30.  Engine 55 had a run for a
gas leak on the west side.  From there 55 went to
the towers.  Me, Pat Schuppel and Fireman
Siragusa made our way to the World Trade Center
after the second plane hit the towers.
          55 was parked in front of the north
tower.  I went there and grabbed my helmet, which
I left on the rig.  An older chief kind of
motioned us all across the street on the west
side, West Street, to the command post, where we
waited and tried to get into the building.
          We were there probably 15 minutes
before the first one came down.  As it came down,
P. METZGER 3
we all went underneath the building right there.
I'm not sure what building it was.  It might
be --
     Q.   It's on the west side of West Street,
the building?
     A.   On West Street.  I guess it was the
Merrill Lynch building.  I think it was probably
the Merrill Lynch building has an underground
parking garage.  Everyone that was at the command
post went under that.
          I came back, searched that area, the
underground parking garage, went up, saw a little
of the command post.  I was with a captain.  I
don't know who it was.  He said, "Let's go on out
the back."  As we made our way out the back,
which is in the little green area near the
harbor --
     Q.   Right.
     A.   -- the second tower came down.
          I hooked up with Pat Schuppel, who I
started with.  Probably for a couple minutes we
hustled.  We just regrouped back there on the
water.  Then we went back to the towers, where we
started putting out car fires and whatnot.
P. METZGER 4
          Some guys needed help up on the
promenade deck, the second floor of I guess it's
the customs building or one of these buildings,
on the corner of Vesey and West.  So I went up
there and started helping this Squad 288.  I
carried out a couple bodies or at least one body
that I remember.  I think it was a captain.
          I worked up there a little bit, came on
down.
     Q.   The guy you carried out was a captain?
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   Do you know what happened to him; do
you know?
     A.   I don't know.  His injuries were not
conclusive.  He was kind of intact.
     Q.   He was out in the street?
     A.   No.  He was up on that second level of
the building on the corner of Vesey and West.  I
guess it was Six World Trade, probably the
customs building, but I'm not sure of that.
          We kind of worked up there a bit.  We
came on down.  We went up to Barclay street, went
north and west, made a right on Barclay, down
Church.  From there I saw a member of 55 Engine
P. METZGER 5
that was hooked up with another local company.
          I said good-bye to the squad buddies.
From there we searched a big old hotel that was
on I guess Trinity, the Millennium Hotel.  We
searched all the rooms in that place, found
nothing.  We came on down.  It took a while.
          About that time --
     Q.   How did you get into the rooms?
     A.   There were a couple companies working
together, and the first couple doors we popped.
Then someone found the maid's keys.  They found
two maids' keys, master keys, and we swiped.
     Q.   Who was working in there with you; do
you know?
     A.   Who was working in there?
     Q.   Just off the top of your head, if you
can remember.
     A.   There was a local company.  It might
have been Engine 15 or 18.  The captain was
there.  I'm not sure if his boys were there.
Then there was a Brooklyn company.  I'm not sure
who that was.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   There was a bunch of us, and the
P. METZGER 6
officers had the keys and they would open the
doors, and we would all go in and search them.
All the rooms were immaculate.  The first or
second floors were dusty.  Everything else was
fine.  So we did that for a while, you know, 50
stories.
          We came on down.  From there, I think
that's when seven was going to come down.  So
they backed everybody out, somewhere near Church
and Trinity, I guess.  I remember being near the
cemetery, and there's an old Church building up
there.  I'm not exactly sure where we were.  But
we were up in the Church, Park, Murray, Barclay,
this area.
          So we sat there for a while.  Seven
World Trade came down.  After that came down, we
all kind of regrouped.  I think we started to
stretch a tower ladder down Vesey Street towards
Seven World.  This was kind of late at night.
Maybe this was 8 or 9.
          I saw 55 Engine, so I abandoned that
stat ship, me and the other 55 guy, hopped on
with our 55 gang, and we kind of did a little
cruise around the Trade Center area, did a little
P. METZGER 7
digging in the north tower, and then we came home
by 12 or 1 or 2.
          Yeah, that was that.
     Q.   That was it?
     A.   Yeah.
          CHIEF MALKIN:  This concludes the
     interview with Firefighter Pete Metzger of
     Engine 55.  The time is now 2103 hours.

FILE NO 9110425
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW BATTALION CHIEF FRANK CONGIUSTA
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

CONGIUSTA
CHIEF LAKIOTES TODAY IS JANUARY 8TH 2002 THE TIME IS APPROXIMATELY 1050 MY
NAME IS CHIEF ART LAKIOTES SAFETY COMMAND NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT AM
CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH
CHIEF CUNGIUSTA FRANK CONGIUSTA
BATTALION 48
CHIEF LAKIOTES REGARDING THE
EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
FRANK IF YOU WOULD JUST TAKE ME
THROUGH THE DAY HOW THE EVENTS UNFOLDED FOR YOU AND EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THE DAY WENT FOR YOU
WAS AT HOME READING THE PAPER AND MY NEIGHBOR CAME OVER AND SAID PLANE HIT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER SO WENT NEXT DOOR AND WATCHED IT FOR WHILE THEN THE SECOND PLANE HIT
SAID ITS TIME TO GO TO WORK
WENT IN AND DROVE TO 240S
QUARTERS TO PICK UP MY GEAR THERE WERE THREE OTHER GUYS THERE SO WE ALL GOT IN MY CAR WE
WERE GOING TO DRIVE TO THE BATTERY TUNNEL AND
WALK THROUGH THE BATTERY TUNNEL
WHILE WE WERE ON THE PROSPECT
EXPRESSWAY THE FIRST TOWER COLLAPSED WHEN WE

CONGIUSTA
GOT ON THE GOWANUS FIGURED THE TOP WOULD FALL OFF ON THE RADIO THEY SAID THE TOWER COLLAPSED
WE WERE TRYING TO SEE WHAT WAS LEFT OF THE FIRST TOWER THAT COLLAPSED AND WE COULDNT SEE ANYTHING BUT IT WAS HARD TO TELL THROUGH THE SMOKE
WE GOT TO THE BATTERY TUNNEL WE PARKED THE CAR AND THEY WOULDNT LET WALK US THROUGH
THEY SAID THEY WERE AFRAID THE TUNNEL WOULD
COLLAPSE SO THEY SAID THEY WERE GOING TO SEND BUS FOR US
SO WE WAITED FOR THE BUS WE GOT ON THE BUS WHEN WE WERE IN THE DITCH ON THE GOWANUS WHAT IS IT
THE BQE
THATS WHEN THE SECOND BUILDING
COLLAPSED WOULD GUESS WE GOT THERE 10 15 MINUTES AFTER THE SECOND BUILDING COLLAPSED IT
WAS COMPLETE MESS IT WAS LIKE WALKING ONTO THE MOON ANYBODY WE SAW APPEARED TO BE IN SHOCK
THAT WAS AFTER THE EVENT
YEAH
THE FIRST CHIEF THAT WE MET WAS CHIEF

CALLAN
CONGIUSTA
THEN THERE WAS SOME DEPUTY THERE FROM QUEENS THAT ASKED US TO SEARCH THE
CUSTOMS BUILDING WHICH WAS STILL STANDING SO WE FIGURED OUT WAY INTO THE
CUSTOMS BUILDING AND WE SEARCHED THE EIGHT FLOORS OF THE CUSTOMS BUILDING ON THE WEST SIDE
THE WHOLE MIDDLE OF THE BUILDING WAS BLOCKED OUT
BY COLLAPSE
WE CAME OUT CHIEF FELLINI WAS THERE
BY THEN REPORTED TO CHIEF FELLINI THAT WE HAD SEARCHED THE TOP EIGHT FLOORS WITH 43 TRUCK AND 294 ENGINE REPORTED THAT THE WEST HALF OF THE CUSTOMS BUILDING THAT WE COULD GET TO THAT WAS ACCESSIBLE WAS NEGATIVE AND HE TOLD US TO SEARCH THE SUBBASEMENTS WE WENT DOWN AND SEARCHED THE SUBBASEMENTS
WHILE WE WERE SEARCHING THE SUBBASEMENTS THEY DECIDED THAT SEVEN WORLD TRADE CENTER WHICH WAS ACROSS THE STREET WAS GOING TO COLLAPSE SO THEY CALLED US OUT WE WERE SO FAR DOWN WE COULDNT HEAR THEM BUT WE CAME OUT AFTER WE SEARCHED THE SUBBASEMENTS ACTUALLY WE CAME OUT ON THE SEVEN WORLD TRADE CENTER PARKWAY

CONGIUSTA
STREET WHEN CAME OUT THEY WERE CALLING US ON THE RADIO TO TELL US TO GET OUT
THEN REPORTED THAT THE SEARCH WAS
NEGATIVE AND THEN THEY WOULDNT LET ANYBODY NEAR THE SITE PRETTY MUCH BECAUSE SEVEN WORLD TRADE CENTER WAS GOING TO COME DOWN
REPORT CASUALTY
AFTER THAT STARTED DOING CASUALTY WAS THERE UNTIL LIKE MIDNIGHT DOING
REPORTS
WHERE WAS YOUR LOCATION
WE WERE AT WEST AND VESEY WEST AND VESEY
BUT THEN WHAT HAPPENED WAS ONCE
DOING CASUALTY REPORTS STARTED WALKING
STARTED
ALL AROUND THE SITE AND ANYBODY SAW WITH
HELMET NUMBER THAT
THERE ASKED THEM IF ALL THEIR GUYS WERE ACCOUNTED FOR
WAS
SO MADE
ONE LIST OF COMPANIES THAT
THOUGHT WOULD HAVE BEEN
EVERYBODY WAS ACCOUNTED FOR AND MADE ANOTHER
LIST OF WHO THEY THOUGHT WAS MISSING WHICH
WHO DID YOU GIVE THAT TO
STANLEY
DOOR CHECK WAS THERE

CONGIUSTA
THINK ACTUALLY WE WENT FURTHER DOWN TO
STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL AND FORGET THE NAME OF THE CHIEF THAT WAS THERE THEY HAVE LIKE
SPIRAL BOOK AND THEY WERE ENTERING ALL THE NAMES IN SPIRAL BOOK SOMEBODY ELSE HAD GIVEN THEM MANY OF THE NAMES HAD BUT LOT OF THE NAMES
GAVE THEM THEY DIDNT HAVE THAT WAS BASICALLY IT
AND WHEN THAT WAS DONE WAS SHOT AND WENT HOME
HOW DID YOU GET HOME
WALKED DOWNTOWN THROUGH THE BATTERY
TUNNEL GOT MY CAR AND DROVE COUPLE OF THE GUYS TO 168 DROVE COUPLE GUYS TO 168 AND THEN DROVE HOME HAD TO WORK 24 THE NEXT DAY WAS WORKING UP AND DOWN THE NEXT DAY THAT WAS IT
THANK YOU FRANK
CHIEF LAKIOTES THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW IT IS APPROXIMATELY 1055
File No. 9110426
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
     FIREFIGHTER NICHOLAS BORRILLO
    Interview Date:  January 9, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
N. BORRILLO 2
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today's date is
     January 9, 2002.  The time is 1300 hours.
     This is Battalion Chief Frank Congiusta of
     the Safety Division of the Fire Department
     of the City of New York.  I'm conducting an
     interview with the following individual --
          FIREFIGHTER BORRILLO:  Firefighter
     Nicholas Borrillo, first grade, Ladder 1.
CHIEF CONGIUSTA: Of the Fire Department of the City of New York. We are at the quarters of Ladder 1, regarding the events of September 11th, 2001.
Q. Go ahead, Nick. Tell your story.
A. Wewereataboxforodorofgasinthe
street on Church and Lispenard.  We were
investigating that.  We were just about ready to
take up from that box and come back when we heard
the roar of the engines of the plane.  Before we
knew it, it was overhead.  Within two seconds it
hit the north tower.
          We all jumped on the rig.  It was
Ladder 1, Engine 7, Battalion 1, Ladder 8, Engine
55, if I'm not mistaken.  We headed down Canal
Street to the west side.  Then we headed town to
N. BORRILLO 3
the Trade Center.  We pulled up in front of the
Trade Center on West Street on the east side
right in front of the building.  There's a bus
stop right in front of the building.  We were
right there.
          We got off the rig.  We kind of
gathered ourselves a little bit, discussed what
we were going to do.
     Q.   Where did you park the rig?
     A.   The rig was parked on West Street
facing north, right in front of the building.  As
I said, there was a bus stop that was right
there.  We parked a little bit north of the bus
stop, probably by that big overhang.
     Q.   Okay.  Right at the bridge that goes
across West Street.
     A.   After that.
     Q.   It's not after that?
     A.   There was a big overhang when you walk
into the tower.  There's an overhang on that part
of the building.
          We went to the fire command station.
We waited for some orders.  Chief Pfeifer was in
charge of the fire at that time.  We were trying
N. BORRILLO 4
to find out if we were going to get our Port
Authority radio that we normally get.  Those
never came.
          We tried to get information about the
elevators.  That took a little bit of time.  I
don't know how long it might have taken, but
before we actually knew that, we didn't have any
elevators and they said start making your way up.
          We started going up.  We went to the B
staircase.  There were lots of civilians coming
down that particular staircase.  It was a few
minutes even before we were able to clear out
enough space where we could see to start going
up.
          Maybe on the second floor I thought I
heard a little bit of an explosion or something.
Later on we found out that there was a -- there
was a Port Authority guy on the staircase in our
vicinity.  He confirmed that another plane had
hit the other tower.
          We still kept going up.  It was a slow
go going up.  It was really congested.  We were
single file going up.  The civilians were single
file coming down.  We were just telling people
N. BORRILLO 5
just to stay calm, just get out of the building,
the best way you can.
          We were getting a little separated from
each other.  We tried to just keep with each
other, just in case there was anything -- we
didn't want to have to look for anyone on the way
out.
          A couple guys were behind us, so we had
to stop maybe two times as we were going up.  We
climbed up to the 23rd floor.  We were waiting
for a couple of our guys to come up.  They
finally hooked up with us, and we took a break.
There was a water display thing like for sodas
and everything.  We got into that, because we
were just overheating.  We took, I don't know, a
five-minute break there.
          Then we heard a rumble.  We heard it
and we felt the whole building shake.  It was
like being on a train, being in an earthquake.  A
train is more like it, because with the train you
hear the rumbling, and it kind of like moved you
around in the hall.  Then it just stopped after
eight or ten seconds, about the time it took for
the building to come down.
N. BORRILLO 6
          We just kind of looked at each other
like what the hell was that?  Then it stopped.  I
had left my mask, my helmet, my jacket down the
hallway.  I said, no, I might need that, let me
go back and get it.  I ran back and got that.  A
couple minutes later, not that I heard on my
radio.  I didn't hear the evacuation order over
my radio, but there was a chief from the 11th
Division, I believe, Picciotto.
     Q.   From the 11th Battalion.
     A.   The 11th Battalion.
          He was probably coming down from like
30 or something like that.  He was telling
everybody directly to leave the building.  So we
got our stuff, we started going down.  There were
still civilians in the staircase.  We probably
got to the civilians around the 10th floor.  So
we kind of slowed down a little bit.  We didn't
want to panic them.
          We really didn't know what was going
on.  We didn't know the whole building fell down.
We just didn't know that.  Maybe if we did, maybe
we would have made it a little more urgent.  It
was really pretty calm in the staircase.  Nobody
N. BORRILLO 7
was yelling or screaming.  The civilians were
fine.
          We got down.  I don't know how long it
took us to get down, maybe 20 minutes.  About
that time we came down, we got down to the lobby,
walked towards West Street.  We figured we would
go back to the fire command station.  There was
nobody at that fire command station.
          I waited for one of the other guys,
Steve Olsen, to come down.  He was about two
minutes behind me.  We walked down to the West
Street side where our rig was.  As I said before,
I spoke to him for 10 or 15 seconds.  We were
looking up at the building.  We were like, how
are we going to fight this one?  Let's regroup
and walk north.  I said, "Joe, are you coming
with us?"  He said, "I'll be right there."
          Me and Steve got to about -- walking
north on West, we got to maybe half a block to a
block north of Vesey when the north tower fell.
We just hauled.  We were running.  There were a
bunch us running.  I actually got up around two
blocks.
          The dust cloud was right behind me.  It
N. BORRILLO 8
overcame me a little bit.  I got up to Stuyvesant
High School.  I ducked into the school, rested
there for two or three minutes, came back
outside, walked on the sidewalk back down.  I
didn't know where Steve Olsen was, and I didn't
know -- (inaudible).
          I asked where they were.  Everybody
else was with him.  He said everybody else was
with him, the officer and three other members.
We sat up a rendezvous point.  I think it was
Harrison Street, maybe, Harrison and West.  We
kind of regrouped right there.
          After that we scattered up and got back
to the firehouse.  We had no masks.  Some guys
didn't have their coat on.  Some guys didn't have
their helmet.  We said, let's go back to the
firehouse, let's get our second gear and then
we'll get back down to the Trade Center.  We had
no tanks or anything.
That's it.

FILE NO 9110427
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW LIEUTENANT ROBERT BOHACK
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

BOHACK
CHIEF CONGIUSTA TODAY IS JANUARY 9TH 2002 THE TIME IS 1100 HOURS THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF FRANK CONGIUSTA OF THE SAFETY DIVISION OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW
WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
LIEUTENANT BOHACK LIEUTENANT ROBERT
BOHACK ENGINE
CHIEF CONGIUSTA OF THE NEW YORK
CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT AT THE QUARTERS OF ENGINE REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER
11TH
2001
OKAY LIEUTENANT GO AHEAD
WE HAD BOX AT APPROXIMATELY 840 AT
GRAMERCY PARK THE AVAILABLE WAS GIVEN WE WERE PICKING UP AND HEARD OVER THE RADIO THAT
PLANE HAD HIT THE TRADE CENTER WE WERE
DISPATCHED RIGHT AWAY THE SECOND ALARM
BELIEVE FOURTH DUE ON
WE PROCEEDED WESTBOUND ON 14TH STREET THEN MADE LEFT HEADING SOUTH ON WEST STREET
COULD SEE THE TOWER CLEARLY FROM THAT VANTAGE POINT THERE WAS HUGE HOLE IN THE TOWER
FIGURED ABOUT 85 FLOORS UP IT WAS ABOUT FOUR OR

BOHACK
FIVE STORIES WIDE TRIANGULAR SHAPED AND SMOKE WAS RIPPING OUT UNDER HEAVY PRESSURE COULD
SEE FLAMES AND COULD SEE SMOKE STARTING TO RIP OUT OF THE TOP FLOORS
WE PROCEEDED SOUTHBOUND THE TRAFFIC WAS
WE MOVED OVER INTO THE NORTHBOUND
GETTING HEAVY
LANE AND THEN WE PROCEEDED SOUTH WE STOPPED THE RIG APPROXIMATELY ONE BLOCK NORTH OF THE NORTH TOWER ON THE NORTHBOUND SIDE OF WEST STREET FACING SOUTH
GOT OUT OF THE RIG HAD FIVE MAN
ENGINE COMPANY TOOK MY CHAUFFEUR WITH ME DIDNT THINK WE WERE GOING TO HOOK UP TO
ANYTHING WE WERE TOO FAR AWAY AND PROCEEDED TO THE LOBBY OF ONE WORLD TOWER
THE NORTH TOWER
OKAY
WE REPORTED TO BELIEVE CHIEF PFEIFER
AND BELIEVE CHIEF HAYDEN WAS THERE TOO AS WELL AS COMMISSIONER VON ESSEN WE WERE TOLD TO
TEAM UP WITH ENGINE 10 WITH OUR ROLLUPS AND ALL OUR MASKS AND EXTRA BOTTLES AND PROCEED TO THE 79TH FLOOR AND OPERATE
WE STARTED GOING UP THE STAIRS AS

CXV CX
BOHACK
TEAM THERE WAS LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE COMING DOWN THE STAIRWAYS IT WAS LITTLE NARROW THERE WAS ONLY ROOM FOR TWO PEOPLE WIDE IT WAS SLOW GOING UP WE STOPPED ON THE 13TH FLOOR FOR ABOUT TWO MINUTES BECAUSE THERE WERE TOO MANY PEOPLE COMING DOWN WE WERE WITH 10 ENGINE
WE TOOK TWO MINUTE BREAK AND THEN WENT UP TO THE 19TH FLOOR WHERE ONE OF MY GUYS
DEREK BROGAN HE WAS COMPLAINING OF BAD CHEST
PAINS EVEN THOUGH HES YOUNG GUY HE LOOKED OKAY HE WAS HEAVY SMOKER SO WE DECIDED TO
STOP
HE WAS SWEATING LOT SO WE STOPPED ON THE 19TH FLOOR WE GOT SOME WATER AND POURED
WATER OVER OUR HEADS WE TOOK OUR GEAR OFF FOR FEW MINUTES MONITORED HIM IN ABOUT 10 OR 15
MINUTES HE SAID HE WAS OKAY

BOHACK
CALLED HIM ON THE RADIO HE DIDNT HAVE RADIO WAS HOPING THAT MAYBE HE WAS
NEXT TO SOMEBODY HE WASNT ANSWERING THERE WAS SO MUCH RADIO TRAFFIC ANYWAY YOU COULDNT
GET WORD IN EDGE WISE TOO MANY MAYDAYS FOR CHEST PAINS
SO WE STOPPED ON THE 19TH FLOOR HE SAID HE FELT BETTER AFTER ABOUT 15 MINUTES WE
GOT OUR GEAR UP AGAIN STARTED TO PROCEED UP THE STAIRS STAIRWAY BELIEVE UNTIL THE 33RD
FLOOR THEN HE WAS REALLY SWEATING AND SAID THE CHEST PAINS WERE SHOOTING DOWN HIS ARM SO THATS WHEN MADE DECISION THATS IT
WE PUT OUR GEAR DOWN CALLED FOR WITHIN TWO MINUTES TWO PORT AUTHORITY
OXYGEN
ESU COPS CAME WITH AN OXYGEN RESUSCITATOR THEY
WERE THERE QUICK WAS AMAZED COUPLE

BOHACK
FIREMEN THINK ONE WAS FROM TRUCK FORGET HIS NAME HE WAS THERE TAKING BREAK ALL THE
FAT GUYS WERE TAKING
BREAK ON THE LOWER FLOORS
ME INCLUDED YOU KNOW
WE GAVE HIM OXYGEN ANOTHER FIREMAN
WHO WAS THERE HE WAS NURSE HE LOOKED AT HIM AND SAID LOU DONT THINK HES HAVING HEART ATTACK HIS SKIN IS GOOD HIS PULSE IS GOOD THINK ITS SOMETHING ELSE SAID ALL RIGHT WELL JUST HANG OUT AND LET HIM REST
TWO PORT AUTHORITY COPS WERE WITH US AFTER COUPLE MINUTES HE SAID HE FELT BETTER
IT WAS PROBABLY TEN MINUTES LATER SAID ALL
RIGHT THE THING WERE GOING TO DO WANT YOU IN AN AMBULANCE YOURE DONE FOR THE DAY
SO ONE OF THE GUYS THAT WAS THERE
THINK IT WAS THE GUY FROM TRUCK SAID LOU IM GOING DOWN ILL TAKE HIM DOWN SAID NO WANT TO STAY TOGETHER WAS ALREADY MISSING MANNY DONT WANT TO WORRY WHERE HE IS SAID WERE GOING TO DOWN TOGETHER WELL DROP OFF OUR GEAR GO DOWN PUT HIM IN AN AMBULANCE WHEN KNOW HES ON HIS WAY WELL COME BACK UP

BOHACK
SO WE LEFT OUR STUFF DOWN TOOLS KEPT OUR MASKS ON HAD MY LIGHT WE BEGAN WITH THE PORT AUTHORITY COPS TO COME DOWN THE STAIRS AS SOON AS WE GOT INTO THE STAIRWAY THE BUILDING STARTED SHAKING LIKE AN EARTHQUAKE THOUGHT OUR BUILDING WAS COMING DOWN MY MIND WAS SAYING THERES SOME KIND OF WIND COMPENSATOR UP THERE IN THE UPPER FLOORS BIG HUGE VAT OF CEMENT DID YOU EVER HEAR OF THAT KNOW THE BUILDING
MOVED
YEAH
THERES SOME KIND OF HUGE TON OF WEIGHT UP THERE ITS HUGE VAT FILLED WITH CEMENT AND
IT SHIFTS WHEN THE WIND IS BLOWING ONE WAY IT SHIFTS TO THE OTHER WAY WITH THE WIND TO
COMPENSATE
THOUGHT IF THAT THING SHAKES AND COMES LOOSE FROM ITS SUPPORTS WERE FUCKING DEAD SO THATS WHAT THOUGHT IT WAS THOUGHT OUR BUILDING WAS STARTING TO COLLAPSE SAID
LETS GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE NOW WERE OUT OF HERE
STAIRS
WE START GOING DOWN WE WENT DOWN THE

BOHACK
OH BEFORE THAT FOUND OUT THAT THE OTHER BUILDING HAD GOTTEN HIT ONE GUY TOLD ME COUPLE WEEKS AGO THAT IT GOT HIT WHILE WE WERE IN THE LOBBY DIDNT KNOW THAT UNTIL WE WERE ON THE 13TH FLOOR OR LITH FLOOR AND WERE TAKING OUR BREAK LOOKED OUT THE WINDOW AND SAW LIKE
IM
HAVE
FLOOR THERES FIRE HERE 10TH
FIRE HERE MISSILES COMING HEART
IS RIDICULOUS WERE OUT HERE STARTED GOING DOWN THE BUILDING
30 FLOORS OF FIRE IN THE OTHER BUILDING
THINKING THIS GUY IS HAVING CHEST PAINS
REPORT OF MISSILE ATTACK OR OTHER TERRORIST
ATTACK 30TH FLOOR THERES
ATTACKS THIS WE
SHOOK SAID THIS ONE IS COMING DOWN LETS GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE DIDNT SEE THE TWO PORT AUTHORITY COPS AFTER THAT HAD FOUR GUYS WITH ME WAS MISSING ONE MEMBER FROM THE
GET GO
WE STARTED GOING DOWN SAW COUPLE GUYS WHO WERE GOING UP ON THE WAY DOWN KEVIN DONNELLY FROM LADDER ASKED HIM WHAT ARE YOU DOING SAID LETS GET OUT OF HERE
WE SAW COUPLE CIVILIANS THAT WERE THERE BUT MOSTLY THE STAIRWAY WAS CLEAR WE

BOHACK
CHOSE ANOTHER STAIRWAY WE CHOSE THE STAIRWAY GUESS THATS FACING THE SOUTH TOWER THATS
VERY CLOSE TO THERE
IT STARTED GETTING DUSTY SHITTY AND DARK THE LIGHTS WENT OUT ABOUT WE WERE MAYBE
ON THE 15TH FLOOR THE LIGHTS WENT OUT ON THE 13TH FLOOR
WE WERE GOING DOWN THERE WERE STILL FEW CIVILIANS FEW MORE FIREMEN IT WAS DARK
ONE OF THE GUYS WHO WAS SHARING HIS MASK WITH CIVILIAN WHO WAS SCARED WE HAD TO HELP HIM
DOWN
THEN WE GET TO THE THIRD FLOOR AND THE
STAIRWAY IS PARTIALLY BLOCKED THEY COULDNT PASS THAT BACK UP THERE WAS MOSTLY FIREMEN FEW CIVILIANS TOLD MY GUYS ILL GO FIND
ANOTHER STAIRWAY STAY HERE
WALKED TO THE FOURTH FLOOR GO
ACROSS ALL THE LIGHTS ARE OUT FIND THE STAIR THAT WE WENT UP STAYED IN THE STAIRWAY
YELLED TO MY GUYS LETS GO IVE GOT ANOTHER STAIRWAY IVE GOT ANOTHER STAIRWAY THEY
COME ONLY THREE GUYS COME
THE CROWD WAS OBVIOUSLY OR PROBABLY

BOHACK 10
FROM THE COLLAPSE OF THE OTHER BUILDING THERE WAS DEBRIS FROM THE OTHER BUILDING COMING DOWN
AND PUSHING IN BECAUSE WE WERE IN THE STAIRWAY FACING THE SOUTH TOWER SO THAT MUST HAVE PUSHED IN THE OUTSIDE WALL THATS WHAT CAUSED BREACH
IN THE DARK INAUDIBLE AND GERRY GORMAN WAS ABLE TO GET PAST ALONG WITH COUPLE GUYS FROM 20 TRUCK DIDNT KNOW IT AT THE TIME WHEN CALLED MY GUYS DIDNT WANT TO LOSE
THE STAIRWAY AND GO BACK SO WHEN THEY CAME THREE GUYS CAME NOW IM MISSING TWO GUYS MANNY FROM THE GET GO AND GERRY GORMAN WHO MADE HIS
WAY DOWN TO THE STAIRWAY

BOHACK
11
WITH THAT AS SOON AS
BUILDING MADE GROAN LIKE STEEL
DIDNT HAVE TO TELL THOSE GUYS TWICE WE JUST
STARTED MAKING LINE FOR WEST STREET OR THE WESTERN SIDE THE ENTRANCE WE CAME IN
WITH THAT WE RAN OUT THE FRONT THERE WAS THINK CHIEFS AIDE SORT OF AS LOOKOUT
SAYING COME ON COME ON COME ON WE STOPPED AT THE ENTRANCE AS SOON AS HE WAVED US
ON WE GO WE GET TO HIM HE WAS MAYBE 50 YARDS AHEAD OF US IN FRONT OF US ON WEST STREET
GET TO HIM AND HE SAYS LOOK AT THE BUILDING
LOU THE OTHER ONE COLLAPSED AND THIS ONE IS COLLAPSING HE SHOWED ME ABOUT 20 STORIES UP YOU SEE CRACK IN THE BUILDING LOOK HOLY SHIT THE OTHER BUILDINGS GONE
SAID GET THE FUCK TO THE RIG WE RUN TO THE RIG IM WITH TWO OTHER GUYS RICHIE
SAID THAT THE
TWISTING

BOHACK 12
CARLETTI AND TOMMY LYNN THEY CAME IN THEIR
CARS BEFORE THAT IM DOWN TWO GUYS GORMAN AND
MANNY DELVALLE NOW IM BACK UP TO FIVE IVE GOT TWO STRAGGLERS
SO WE GET TO THINK EITHER WARREN STREET OR CHAMBERS STREET THINK IT WAS
WARREN WE MADE RIGHT ON WARREN GOT OUT WEVE GOT ALL THE DUST AND CRAP ALL OVER US FROM
THE OTHER COLLAPSE JUST WANTED TO GET MY
BEARINGS STRAIGHT GIVE LITTLE THOUGHT BECAUSE THERE WAS NO COMMAND STRUCTURE THERE WAS
NOTHING NOBODY CAN GET ON THE RADIO THE
FUCKING
RADIO WAS USELESS
WE GET OUT MIKE BUTLER CHIEF OF FIRE
PREVENTION COMES TO ME AND SAYS LOOK LOU DONT HAVE RADIO MY RADIO IS DEAD CAN
HAVE YOURS HERE YOU GO AINT GOING BACK THERE AS SOON AS HE GOT THAT WE WALKED MAYBE
HALF BLOCK AND THATS WHEN THE BUILDING
DOWN
PANCAKES

BOHACK 13
THEN THE SMOKE AND THE SHOCK WAVE COMES UP ONE STREET WE RUN WE HIDE BEHIND
CUNY YOU KNOW THE COLLEGE THERE THERES LIKE BIG WALL THAT STICKS OUT WE HIDE BEHIND THERE THE SMOKE AND THE DUST AND ALL THE CRAP IS OUTSIDE THE RIG THE
WE GET BACK ON FULL OF DUST TOLD MY
CHAUFFEUR JOHN WANT TO MAKE 360 SURVEY TO SEE WHAT THE HELL WEVE
GOT DONT KNOW WHAT THE HELL WEVE GOT CANT SEE SHIT DOWN THAT WAY
WE GO ALL AROUND TO BROADWAY AND GO UP
BROADWAY AND TURN RIGHT AND ITS LIKE FRIGGING WAR ZONE WE GO UP TO ABOUT THAMES STREET AND WE FIND HYDRANT THAT WORKED WE HOOKED UP SAID YOU KNOW WHAT WERE GOING TO HAVE TO RELAY WATER TO SOMEBODY WEVE GOT TO GET WATER ON THIS PLACE ILL GO CHECK IT OUT
HE GETS WATER HE ENDS UP RELAYING TO
247 ENGINE FROM BROOKLYN THEY WERE OPERATING WE WALKED UP ALL THE WAY TO CHURCH STREET UP
HERE THAMES STREET WE WALKED UP BROADWAY IT SEEMED ABOUT CANT EVEN SEE THESE STREETS LIBERTY CORTLANDT CANT EVEN SEE LIBERTY
RIG WAS STOPPED UP
THE RIG AND THE RIG WAS

BOHACK 14
HERE RIGHT HERE BROADWAY AND THAMES OR CEDAR RIGHT AROUND HERE THATS WHERE WE FIND
HYDRANT
WE PUMPED THIS WAY AND THIS WAY UP THIS WAY WE GO WALKING UP CHURCH AND WE GO TO
DEY STREET FOUND ENGINE 252S RIG DESTROYED FOUND 41 ENGINES RIG
DESTROYED
NO THAT WAS GOOD THAT WAS GOOD
FIVE WORLD TRADE THIS BUILDING HERE WAS FULLY INVOLVED YOU DONT REALIZE EVEN THEN
WHERE THINGS STOOD SAID LETS GO AND MAYBE PUT OUT THE FIRE THATS WHAT WE DID WE GOT WATER WE HOOKED UP TO THE GRAVITY TANK OF ONE OF THESE BUILDINGS HERE WE WERE GETTING LIKE 80 TO 100 POUNDS INTAKE SO WE STRETCHED LINE AS FAR AS THE TOWER LADDER HERE WE STARTED
WATER ON THE FIRE ON THIS WAS THAT SEVEN
FUCKING BUILDING
NO SEVEN WAS HERE OKAY
INAUDIBLE THAT WASNT ON FIRE
RIGHT YEAH
THIS WAS ON FIRE THIS ONE WE WERE
GETTING

BOHACK 15
WORRIED ABOUT THIS WE STARTED KNOCKING THIS DOWN
WE ENDED UP PUMPING FOR TWO DAYS
HEARD THAT THE WATER DEPARTMENT SHUT OFF LOT OF
THE MAINS BECAUSE THEY WERE FLOODING THE SUBWAYS
THEY PROBABLY WERE
THATS BASICALLY IT WE WERENT IN THE
BUILDING PROBABLY FROM TILL OH AFTER 10 WE WERE IN THERE FOR WHILE IT TOOK US WHILE TO
GET DOWN THE STAIRS TOO IT TOOK US PROBABLY
LEFT WHEN THE FIRST BUILDING COLLAPSED AND WE
GOT OUT PROBABLY FIVE MINUTES BEFORE THE SECOND BUILDING COLLAPSED INAUDIBLE
File No. 9110428
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER ALBERT BARRY
    Interview Date:  January 9, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
A. BARRY 2
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  The time is 1200
     hours.  This is Battalion Chief Frank
     Congiusta of the Safety Battalion of the
     Fire Department of New York.  I'm conducting
     an interview with the following individual.
          FIREFIGHTER BARRY:  Firefighter Albert
     Barry, Engine 65, third grade.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  The interview is
     being conducted at the quarters of Engine
     65, and it's regarding the events of
     September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Okay, Al, do you want to give your
story?
     A.   Okay.  We got the call at 9 a.m., third
due on the fifth alarm.  We rolled up to West
Street and Vesey where our chauffeur let us off.
We grabbed the rollups, an extra bottle, and
proceeded to the north tower and entered the
lobby area through a broken window.
          I believe we went up the A stairwell.
It was pretty congested with civilians coming
down.  We kept telling the civilians to stay to
the right, we're moving up to the left.  We made
it to about the 16th floor when the south tower
A. BARRY 3
collapsed.
          We did not know that.  This is all
hindsight, of course.  The only thing that I can
recall that happened was there was a big whoosh
of air that pushed from the south up to the
north.  The building moved a little bit, nothing
out of the ordinary, I guess.
          From there we made it to about the 20th
floor when we heard a radio signal for a mayday
to remove ourselves from there, the building was
in eminent collapse.  On our way down, the
stairwell was pretty much fluid.  We were sharing
air with civilians.
          Nobody that we came down with was
injured in any way just some civilian was
hyperventilating.  There was, I recall, an older
woman that was being carried down by some
civilians in a chair.  We told the civilians to
put her down and we immediately took command of
her, checked her vitals, and she was all right.
          I helped carry her down a little bit.
Then we passed her along to some other civilians
who carried her down some more.  It was a quicker
pace because people were making room for her to
A. BARRY 4
come down.
          I guess we got to about maybe the fifth
floor, and the power was out.  There was a bit of
a smoky condition at that point.  But everybody
continued down.  Nobody was running.  It was very
calm.
          Once we made it to the lobby,
(inaudible) seemed to be a triage set up in the
lobby area.  Our lieutenant said there's no need
for us to be in here, let's make our way out the
way we came in, and that's what we did.  Once we
came out the window, there was debris all over
the place.
          I've been told that Chief Al Turi was
directing everybody to move north.  He was
screaming at the top of his lungs, "Go north!"
with a megaphone in his hand, he wasn't even
using the megaphone.
          We took a few steps out, turned around,
and the north tower was coming down.  It was
coming down on our back.  That's when we just
started running up, and at that point 65 Engine
got separated.
          I made it through the smoke, through
A. BARRY 5
the debris, once everything cleared.  Being that
65 Engine was separated, once we made it up to
Stuyvesant High School, that's when everybody was
pulled back together.  65 Engine was brought
together again.
          That's about it, the long and short of
it.
     Q.   Okay.  I just have a couple questions.
     A.   Go ahead.
     Q.   Did they give you a specific task?  In
other words, when you came in, did they tell you
to go to the 30th floor or the 50th floor?
     A.   Yes, there was a chief, I guess it was
at the staging area.  There was basically just
one chief standing there saying, "All right, you
guys make your way up to the north tower."  I
don't know --
     Q.   He didn't tell you to go to the 30th
floor or the 50th floor?
     A.   No.  He just said make your way up to
the north tower.  That was it.  We got our
rollups and gear and everything else and that's
it.  That's about it, then.
File No. 9110429
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER STEVEN ROGERS
    Interview Date:  January 9, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
S. ROGERS 2
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today's date is
     January 9, 2002.  The time is 2050 hours.
     This is Battalion Chief Frank Congiusta of
     the Safety Battalion of the New York City
     Fire Department.  I'm conducting an
     interview with the following individual.
          Please state your name.
          FIREFIGHTER ROGERS:  Firefighter Steve
     Rogers, Ladder 1.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Of the Fire
     Department of the City of New York.  We're
     doing this interview at the location of
     Ladder 1's quarters regarding the events of
     September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Steve, if you would just tell us what
happened that day.
     A.   On September 11th I was on Staten
Island.  I heard it on my car radio that the
World Trade Center was hit by a plane.
Immediately began making my way into the city.  I
got there rather quickly.  On the way here I
heard the second plane had hit.  Right before I
got in my truck, they said that the top of tower
two had collapsed.
S. ROGERS 3
          I entered the firehouse here, Ladder 1,
and began to put on my gear, get on my gear that
I would need.  I met two other firefighters, Kirk
Pritchard and John McConnachie from this house,
Ladder 1.  We all suited up.
         Before we left, the lieutenant that was
here wanted to set up a triage center at the
firehouse for the injured civilians that were in
the street, so we pulled up all the equipment
from the basement, all the C.F.R.D. equipment,
stokes baskets, all the stuff he thought we would
need.
          There was a couple doctors available
from across the street that came in.  At that
point we left them here to run a triage center,
the lieutenant and the doctors.  We jumped in my
truck, the three of us.  Actually there was a
film maker there, a French film maker that was
filming that day.
          We proceeded to go down Church Street
the wrong way with my truck.  At this point I
believe there was a lot of debris on the street a
lot of dust and papers from the collapses of Two.
As we made the turn, we passed the mayor and the
S. ROGERS 4
police commissioner.  We told them a triage
center was at the firehouse.  If they needed to
go to the triage center.  They said thank you,
and we continued down the street further.
          I parked my truck approximately on the
corner of Warren and Church and got out and
suited up and continued walking down Church
Street towards Vesey, where we had seen multiple
civilians injured and hurt but ambulatory.  They
were walking.  We directed them to ambulances
that were parked on Church Street, and we
continued down.
          We made a right on Vesey going towards
West Street.  At that point I saw a guy from 4
Engine, Bob Humphreys, and I asked him what kind
of equipment he had in his rig, masks and stuff.
He said his was already stripped.
          So we continued to work our way down
Vesey.  Each rig we came across we stopped and
checked for masks and tools that we needed.  We
continued down towards West Street.  When we got
to the corner of West and Vesey, tower one began
to collapse.  We ran wherever we could.  I ran
north by the corner of Vesey, and I was already
S. ROGERS 5
getting hit with stuff.
          The other fellow, other firefighter,
John McConnachie, went the same direction I went;
the other firefighters didn't.  They stayed close
to the building, which was World Trade Center
Six.  We were basically getting hit with all
kinds of stuff.  (Inaudible), black, dark.
          Then we just tried to get our bearings.
It was a good -- it felt like an hour but
probably 10 minutes, 15 minutes of darkness.  We
heard people yelling for help.  It took us a
while before we could get our bearings and find
each other after it cleared up to where we could
work our way back to (inaudible).
          I found one guy, John McConnachie.  The
other firefighter, Pritchard, they were putting
in an ambulance.  He was hit in the back with
something.  He might have a fractured back.
          At that point it was very quiet.  There
was only like two or three of us there.  There
was no one around, no injured people.  The rigs
were on fire.  There were people coming up one at
a time (inaudible) it was going to come.  A
fireman here, a fireman there, a police officer.
S. ROGERS 6
          I understand they were working on the
mezzanine of six.  There was a five-story,
four-story mezzanine level, and ^ INAUDIBLE.  I
believe a fireman from Ladder 1, John, we found.
We got 12 Truck -- we moved 12 Truck into
position to set up the tower to bring people
down.
          We had help from Engine 1.  That was
the engine that had the stokes that we brought
down with the tower ladder.  We operated back and
forth with the tower ladder for a half hour or
so.
          At that point there were a lot of
firemen that started to come, older firemen, and
from the recall.  I got relieved by another
chauffeur.  I forget what company; maybe from 12
Truck.  We came back and we were going to try to
put some fires out because there were fires
burning.  Rigs were burning, underneath the rigs.
We checked for engines that were operational,
hydrants.  We did that for about another hour or
two.
          Then I was feeling shitty, so I came
back to the firehouse.  I went to St. Vincent's
S. ROGERS 7
probably around 3:00.  I had a cut on my hand and
trouble breathing.
     Q.   You know what I wanted to ask you, did
you see anything, Stevie?  Like when you got
there, did you look at the buildings at all?  Was
there cracking?  Was there an indication that it
was going to come down before it came down?
     A.   I honestly -- I don't remember.  I
really didn't see it.  Number two was totally
collapsed.  When I looked up, all I saw was a lot
of smoke from the fires and stuff.  So you really
couldn't see the top of the buildings very well.
(Inaudible) from the jumpers.  I really couldn't
see structurally how it collapsed.  There was
just too much fire and smoke.
     Q.   How did you know it was collapsing?
Did you hear the noise?
     A.   The noise immediately -- as soon as I
heard it, we knew it was coming down.  It wasn't
like, oh, what the hell is that?  It was like a
noise you never hear in your whole life.  It came
down.  I only ran like five feet when I got hit
with stuff.  I had to cover up.  It wasn't like
you could run three blocks before you were hit
S. ROGERS 8
with stuff.  It was a matter of feet.  There was
debris everywhere.
          Basically we could have definitely
gotten killed because it was all around us.
     Q.   You know what I think that I found is
that guys that were like on the corner of the
building got less stuff on them than guys were
like --
     A.   Directly in front.
     Q.   Yeah, directly in front and on the
sides.  It seemed like the corner kind of --
A. Kept it --
     Q.   It went four ways but it didn't come
towards the corner, which is something you always
expect from a collapse.  But that really seems to
have been -- the command post was right across
West Street, and that got buried.
     A.   Right.  It was directly across.
     Q.   So you figured that side went that way;
this one went this way.  But if you were in this
area here, a lot of guys seemed to have made it
out.
     A.   Well, you saw the chit; right?  The
chief that gave the original alarm, the third
S. ROGERS 9
alarm, was inside.  The third alarm said report
to West and Vesey to the staging area.  If they
had made that the command post, that would have
been -- everybody at the command post would have
been gone.
     Q.   Right.
     A.   That's where I was.
     Q.   Probably what they did, I think, was
they may have moved it down when the second tower
was hit.  Maybe they started out there.  Then
when the second tower was hit, they may have
moved here.
     A.   They had the one inside the building
and the one --
     Q.   They needed one outside.
     A.   When it collapsed, they moved it to the
opposite building, and then they got hit with the
second collapse.  They survived one collapse,
and then they got it.
          You're lucky.  I'm been on the job 16
years.  Every time you've got a tower job, and
the chiefs are looking.  They say move it out of
the way.  They set their command post up at
around 10 o'clock.
S. ROGERS 10
     Q.   The area of the collapse zone would
have been to Canal Street.  Right.  If it would
have come down the way we expected it to come
down, God knows how many people would have been
killed.
     A.   We were in the collapse zone.
     Q.   We're probably lucky that it came down
the way it came down.
     A.   Oh, yeah, definitely.
File No. 9110430
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER JOSEPH CASALIGGI
    Interview Date:  January 9, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
                  J. CASALISSI                  2
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today's is January
     9th, 2002.  The time is 1430 hours.  This is
     Battalion Chief Frank Congiusta of the
     Safety Battalion of the New York City Fire
     Department.  I'm conducting an interview
     with the following individual.
          Please state your name.
          FIREFIGHTER CASALIGGI:  Joseph
     Cassaliggi, firefighter third grade, Engine
     7.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Who is assigned to
     the New York City Fire Department.  We're
     conducting an interview at the quarters of
     Engine 7 regarding the events of September
     11th, 2001.
     Q.   Joe, if you would please state what
happened.
     A.   On the morning of September 11th we
were operating a box up on Church Street Near
Canal.  There was an odor of gas in the area.
While we were out operating, we heard the first
plane coming in.  I turned around and I watched
the plane crash into the north tower.
          I got back on the rig.  We raced down
                  J. CASALISSI                  3
there.  We were actually one of the first
companies on the scene.  We pulled up right in
front of One World Trade Center, right into the
cul-de-sac right in front of the canopy.
          So we got off the rig.  I noticed there
were several people sitting in the grass in front
of the building burned head to toe, gray, just
staring at us.  The captain ordered us to grab
four rollups.  We went into the building.  We
went into the lobby.
          The lobby actually looked like the
plane hit the lobby.  From what I understand, I
was told afterwards, that a fireball shot down
the elevator shaft and blew out all the windows
in the lobby and blew out the elevator doors.
          We searched for an elevator to see if
there was one operating.  There was none.  The
captain said we were going to walk up the stairs.
At that point my mask had started leaking air
from the high pressure coupling, and I had to go
out and change my cylinder.
          I left my rollup and my standpipe kit
in the lobby.  I went outside to the rig, changed
the cylinder.  While I was changing the cylinder,
                  J. CASALISSI                  4
I was keeping an eye because the chauffeur was
hooking up to the standpipe.  I was keeping an
eye, making sure he didn't get hit with anything.
          It was at that time when I saw the
second plane hit the building.  I called a
mayday.  I told them the second plane hit the
south tower of the building.  I wasn't sure which
floors it was, but I knew it hit the upper floors
of the south tower.
          Debris was falling, body parts were
falling.  We ducked for cover inside Engine 7,
but the rig was getting bombarded with debris
from the building, debris from the plane.  We saw
bodies crash landing right next to the rig.  So
we couldn't stay there.
          We abandoned Engine 7, and we headed
north.  We couldn't make it back into the
building at that point.  We headed north.  We got
up to Vesey Street.  We stayed on Vesey for a
little while.  Another firefighter had come over
asking us if we had a radio.  So the Engine 7
chauffeur gave him his radio, and I was control
so I had mine.
          I radioed the Engine 7 captain, did he
                  J. CASALISSI                  5
want me to stay with the chauffeur or did he want
me to meet him in the building, because the
Engine 7 chauffeur didn't have a radio.  His
response came in broken up.  I thought he said
give him my radio and meet him on the 15th floor.
I found out later he said don't give him the
radio and meet him on the 15th floor.
          So I gave the chauffeur my radio, and I
went into the building.  I saw Chief Pfeifer.  I
told him, "I don't have a radio.  I'm going up to
meet Engine 7 on the 15th floor."  He told me I
wasn't going up if I didn't have a radio and I
didn't have a partner.
          I stayed in the lobby.  I didn't know
at that point if he was getting me a partner or
if he was getting -- I thought I was going to
stay there, I wasn't going up.  I didn't know
what I was doing at that point.
          So I stayed around, waiting to be told
what to do.  I was in the lobby for about 40
minutes.  Finally I took Chief Pfeifer aside
again and I said, "Chief, if you're not going to
send me up, I'm going to go out by the rig and
I'm going to help the chauffeur."  He told me a
                  J. CASALISSI                  6
good idea, go out and stay with the chauffeur.
          I stood by the blown out windows.  I
was looking for clearance, trying to get
somebody's attention to tell me that I wasn't
going to get hit with something as I was running
out.  I couldn't get anybody's attention in the
street.
          I saw another body crash down through
the canopy.  At that I just said screw this and I
just ran.  I ran to the street, just hoping I
wasn't getting hit.
          I met up with the Engine 7 chauffeur.
We stayed together at least for a few minutes
more.  They were trying to clear the area.  So we
were getting pushed back up to Vesey.  I think we
got as far as almost Barclay.
          As I was leaving the building, I heard
them at the command post talking about moving the
command post to the other side of West Street.  I
suggested to the chauffeur we make our way back
to the command post, let somebody know who we are
and where we are and that we're okay.
          So we started making our way back.
When we were about -- we were on the opposite
                  J. CASALISSI                  7
side of West Street now on the west side, making
our way down.  As we were standing underneath the
foot bridge that connects Three World Financial
Center to the World Trade Center.  We were
standing under there, and we watched --
throughout the whole time being outside, we must
have watched 50, 60 people jump.
          I was watching one guy hang onto the
outside of the building, the outside of the north
tower while I was standing under the bridge.
Then there were police officers talking about a
third plane coming into the area.
          Then a few minutes passed.  I was
standing under the bridge.  We had heard a loud
rumble, and people just started running in our
direction from the Trade Center toward us.  I
never even looked up.  We just turned around and
started running.  It was me, the chauffeur, and
there were two plain clothes cops running next to
us.
          We just started running for the
Financial Center.  I saw a Fire Department
lieutenant in the Financial Center.  He was
holding the door open for us.  He yelled to us to
                  J. CASALISSI                  8
get down, we weren't going to make.  I guess I
don't know what I was running from.
          We grabbed the two cops, threw them on
the ground behind one of the support columns for
the pedestrian bridge and just dove on top of
them.  We got hit with the debris from the
building.  It felt like I got hit by a car.  It
knocked the wind out of me.
          Gasping for air, I got a mouth full of
dirt.  I spit that out.  I gasped again and got
another mouthful of dirt.  My mask was on.  I had
it turned on.  My face piece was swinging behind
me.  It was an effort to reach back to grab my
face piece.  I held it up to my face and purged
it.
          After that I got a little bit of air
from that.  I couldn't even give any of it to the
chauffeur or to the two cops.  I just kind of
held it in front of my face.
          Everything just got deadly silent.  I
opened my eyes, I couldn't see a thing.  I leaned
up.  I kind of sat up, so I knew I wasn't pinned
under anything.  I didn't know what happened.  I
thought a plane hit the Financial Center and part
                  J. CASALISSI                  9
of the building came down.  I really didn't know
what happened at this point.
          I sat up, and I thought to myself,
okay, I'm not pinned.  We're just underneath
something and they have to find us.  I made sure
the other three guys that were with me were okay.
The officer that had seen us duck yelled to us,
"Is everybody okay?"  We yelled back, "Yeah.  How
do we get out of here?"  He came in and got us,
took us out through the back of the Financial
Center.
          At that point somebody handed me a
bottle of water, gave me some oxygen.  My chest
was killing me.  I was having difficulty
breathing.  I found an ambulance, got into an
ambulance.  They were going to take me to the
hospital.
          We tried radioing Engine 7.  We
couldn't get them on the radio.  We weren't
getting any transmissions on the radio at that
point.  We couldn't hear anything.  So we didn't
know what happened.  We tried raising Engine 7.
Nothing.
          I got into an ambulance.  I told the
                  J. CASALISSI                 10
chauffeur I was going the hospital.  I suggested
he come with me, but he stayed.  We got separated
at that point.  I was in the ambulance.  We got a
few blocks, and the ambulance got stuck in
gridlock.  We sat there for a few minutes.
          Finally the driver of the ambulance
turned around in this little window and just
yelled to the back and told everybody to get out
and start running.  I popped open the back door
of the ambulance, and there was a crowd of people
running in the direction the ambulance was
facing.
          I jumped out, and I just ran with the
pack.  I didn't know where I was running.  We
ended up by the water a block north of Chambers,
at Stuyvesant High School and the elementary
school there.  I ended up by the water.  Then
everything calmed down again.
          I figured, okay, let me figure out
where I am.  Now I have no radio.  I have to
figure out where I am, where I've got to be, just
get my bearings.  So I looked up, because when
you're in downtown Manhattan and need to get your
bearings you look for the Trade Center.
                  J. CASALISSI                 11
          I looked up and I'm looking around and
saying where am I, but I can't even see the
towers.  I didn't know what happened at this
point.  A person was walking past me talking to
somebody else.  I just overheard him say, "I
can't believe they fell."
          As he was saying that, I'm looking at
the spot where the towers should have been, and I
realized I saw the outlines of the other
buildings.  That's when I realized and I thought
everybody in my company was dead.  I'm the only
one.  I don't know where the chauffeur is, but
we're the only ones that made it.
          I wandered around West Street for a
while trying to find a radio.  I was jumping in
rigs and trying to find a fireman, and I couldn't
find anybody.  Finally I found a fireman from I
think it was Engine 5.  He said he thought he had
a heart attack and had just came out.  He was
sitting on the curb.  He didn't have a radio
either.  I figured the two of us will stay
together, and we'll find an ambulance, we'll get
to the hospital.
          I must have passed 50 people and said,
                  J. CASALISSI                 12
"Will you let somebody downtown know" -- I gave
them my name and my company and said, "Let
somebody downtown know where I am and that I'm
okay and that I was taken to the hospital."  I
got into an ambulance and ended up at Cabrini
Medical Center.  I stayed there for about six
hours, maybe a little less than six hours.
          I got back to the firehouse.  A police
sergeant offered to give me a ride back down to
the firehouse after I was released from Cabrini.
I got back to the firehouse about 3:00 in the
afternoon.  They told me that they were looking
for me and the chauffeur, that we were the only
two from the company not accounted for.
     Q.   All the other guys got out?
     A.   Yeah, everybody from our company -- I
don't know how.  That's when I heard that Engine
7 got up to the 30th, 35th floor, somewhere in
there, and they had gotten out just before the
building came down, before the north tower came
down.
          Basically --
     Q.   That's it?
     A.   Basically that's it.  That's what I
                  J. CASALISSI                 13
remember.
     Q.   Anything you want to add?
     A.   Just that I've had a cough since then.

FILE NO 9110431
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW BATTALION CHIEF BRIAN OFLAHERTY INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

OFLAHERTY
CHIEF LAKIOTES TODAYS DATE IS
JANUARY 9TH 2002 THE TIME IS
APPROXIMATELY 1140 HOURS MY NAME IS
BATTALION CHIEF ART LAKIOTES NEW YORK CITY
FIRE DEPARTMENT SAFETY COMMAND IM HERE
INTERVIEWING BATTALION CHIEF BRIAN
OFLAHERTY OF THE SAFETY OPERATING BATTALION
REGARDING
SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
THE EVENTS THAT OCCURRED ON
BRIAN IF YOU WOULD JUST START US OFF GUESS WHEN YOU GOT THE NOTE WHEN YOU SAW THE
TOWERS AND THEN AS THE EVENTS UNFOLDED FOR YOU THAT DAY
WAS IN QUARTERS HAD GONE IN THE CONFERENCE ROOM AND WAS TYPING UP AN INTERVIEW
FROM THE ASTORIA BOULEVARD FIRE AND ONE OF THE GUYS FROM THE MARINE UNIT EDDIE MAURO CAME IN THE ROOM AND SAID CHIEF YOU HAVE TO SEE THE FIRE IN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER SAID NOW HE SAID YEAH RIGHT NOW YOUVE GO TO SEE IT
IT UNBELIEVABLE
WE LEFT THE ROOM WALKED INTO THE
KITCHEN AS YOU WALK IN THE MARINE DIVISION KITCHEN YOU LOOK OUT THE WINDOW OVER THE EAST

OFLAHERTY
RIVER AND YOU COULD SEE REAL HEAVY SMOKE PUSHING OUT OF THE NORTH TOWER UPPER PORTION OF THE
BUILDING HEAVY SMOKE DIDNT SEE ANY FIRE HEAVY SMOKE
AT ONE POINT GUESS MIKE GAVE ME THE BINOCULARS LOOKED THROUGH YOU COULD SEE
THEM COMING OUT YOU COULD ONLY SEE TWO SIDES OF THE BUILDING JUST AROUND THAT TIME HANDED
THE BINOCULARS BACK AFTER SEEING FEW PEOPLE JUMP AND HEARD THE DISPATCHER CALLING THE 1ST DIVISION AND TELLING THEM THEY HAD REPORTS THAT PEOPLE HAD JUMPED FROM THE BUILDING OR WERE JUMPING FROM THE BUILDING BUT IT WAS CASUAL REPORT
WANTED TO GET TO THE PHONE TO JUST TELL THE MANHATTAN DISPATCHER TO TELL THE
DIVISION THAT ASKED MIKE WE HAD SEEN FIGURED COUPLE DOZEN PEOPLE TWO OR THREE

OFLAHERTY
DOZEN PEOPLE WE ONIY SAW TWO SIDES OF THE
BUILDING WANTED TO TELL THE DISPATCHER LET THE DIVISION KNOW THIS WASNT JUST ONE OR TWO
PEOPLE JUMPING THIS WAS REAL PROBLEM THEY COULD LAND ON YOUR HEAD AND KILL SOMEBODY COMING
UP
THE NOISE IN THE KITCHEN AREA WAS TOO MUCH TO
HEAR SO JUST STEPPED THROUGH THE WEIGHT ROOM CLOSED THE DOOR IDENTIFIED MYSELF AND STARTED
TO TELL THEM ABOUT HOW MANY JUMPERS LET THE DIVISION KNOW
JUST THEN OUT OF THE CORNER OF MY EYE COULD SEE THIS PLANE JUST REMEMBER THE DARK IT WAS IN THE SHADOW IT LOOKED LOW
THOUGHT WHAT THE HECK IS THE GUY DOING WATCHED IT WATCHED HIM TURN AND CRASH RIGHT INTO
THE SOUTH TOWER RIGHT AWAY KNEW IT WAS TERRORISM OR TERRORISTS DIDNT KNOW WHAT THE FIRST ONE WAS BUT KNEW WHAT THE SECOND ONE WAS
HAD THE DISPATCHER ON THE PHONE
SAID STOP TALKING ABOUT THE JUMPERS WE JUST HAD PLANE GO INTO THE SOUTH TOWER ANOTHER
OUT FROM HUNDRED STORIES
JUST DIALED THE MANHATTAN DISPATCHER

OFLAHERTY
HE SAID HE SAW IT ASSUME ON
TELEVISION WE BOTH HUNG UP THE PHONE THAT WAS THE END OF THE CONVERSATION
CAME BACK OUT FROM THE WEIGHT ROOM INTO THE KITCHEN HUNG UP THE PHONE NOW IT WAS
NOISY THESE GUYS HAD ALL SEEN IT THE
TELEVISION WAS ON AT THAT TIME MAYBE THEY WERE
STARTING TO PLAY REPLAYS THINK SHORTLY AFTER THEY PLAYED ONE REPLAY EVERYBODY KNEW IT WAS TERRORISM
JUST THEN LARRY HAD WALKED INTO THE
KITCHEN LARRY STACK AND SAID WOWTHESE GUYS HAVE THEIR HANDS FULL WHAT DO YOU THINK BOYS
SHOULD WE GO GIVE THEM HAND WE JUST TALKED ABOUT THAT EVERYBODY SAID YEAH WE TURNED AROUND IT WAS BRIAN MEYERS MIKE TELESCA LARRY STACK AND MYSELF AND EVERYBODY DECIDED GET DRESSED GET READY
REMEMBER LARRY TELLING BRIAN TO GET THE CAR READY PUT TURNOUT GEAR IN IT HAND
LIGHTS ANY RADIOS WHATEVER WE COULD FIND
BATTALION HAD ALREADY RESPONDED WE WERE RIGHT THERE MIKE WAS GOING TO WORK ON THINK THE
GORUMBA CASE HE HAD HELD MEYERS TO WORK OVER
PLANE

OFLAHERTY
WITH TELESCA LARRY AND WERE GOING TO WORK ON ASTORIA BOULEVARD
SO WE GOT EVERYTHING TOGETHER AND WE
DECIDED WE GRABBED SOME NOTEPADS WE GRABBED BUNCH OF BOXES OF GLOVES THE BLUE ONES FOR
BLOOD BORNE PATHOGENS WE GRABBED GLOVES WENT DOWNSTAIRS BRIAN HAD ASKED WHAT CAR TO TAKE
SAID LETS TAKE THE RED AND WHITE WE HAD THE TWO CARS THE RED AND WHITE OR THE BLUE SAID BECAUSE AT LEAST ITS GOT THE LIGHTS ON THE ROOF
WE WENT DOWNSTAIRS AND BRIAN HAD ALL THE STUFF IN THE CAR WE LEFT THE NAVY YARD AND STARTED HEADING OVER WE ONLY HAD ONE RADIO WE HAD ONE RADIO MAYBE THREE HAND LIGHTS THATS
ALL THE STUFF WE COULD FIND REMEMBER IN THE CAR RIDE OVER LARRY KEPT SAYING WE ONLY HAVE
THE ONE RADIO EVERYBODY STICK TOGETHER UNTIL WE FIND COMMAND POST TELL THEM WHATS GOING ON
WE CAME OUT OF THE NAVY YARD DOWN FLUSHING WE WERENT SURE WHAT BRIDGE BUT AS WE LOOK WE COULD SEE THE MANHATTAN BRIDGE THERE
WAS NO TRAFFIC ON IT SO WE SAID WELL TAKE THE MANHATTAN BRIDGE WE WENT OVER THE MANHATTAN

OFLAHERTY
FROM THE TOP OF THE BRIDGE YOU HAD
PRETTY GOOD VIEW OF BOTH THE BUILDINGS HEAVY SMOKE COMING OUT THE SOUTH TOWER YOU COULD SEE
FIRE AND SMOKE THE NORTH TOWER WAS STILL JUST SORT OF HEAVY SMOKE
WE CUT DOWN BY POLICE PLAZA BY CITY HALL AND AROUND THE END OF CITY HALL PARK WE WENT WEST AND GOT TO CHURCH STREET NOW THE TRAFFIC WAS GETTING BAD BECAUSE NOW THERE WAS LOT OF PEOPLE WALKING FROM THE SCENE WE SAW LOT OF VEHICLES TO THE LEFT SO WE WENT SOUTH ON CHURCH WE STOPPED JUST AROUND THE POST OFFICE BEFORE YOU GET TO VESEY IT WAS ALL BLOCKED UP
GOT OUT OF THE CAR AND TOLD LARRY SAW AN FBI AGENT AND WAS GOING TO START
TALKING TO HIM GAVE HIM MY CARD AND HE GAVE ME CARD SAID THOUGHT THAT THAT SECOND PLANE THAT WENT INTO THE SOUTH TOWER WAS
MILITARY PLANE LIKE TRANSPORT OR SMALL CARGO MILITARY
THE REASON THOUGHT THAT FOUND OUT LATER THE SUN NEVER SHINED OFF IT IT WAS
DARK COLOR PLANE IT ENDED UP FOUND OUT
LATER IT WAS WHY IT WAS UNITED AIRLINES THEY

OFLAHERTY
PAINT THEIR PLANES DULL GRAY AND BLUE
DIDNT SEE ANY SHINE OFF THE PLANE WHEN IT WENT
FROM DARK TO SUN
JUST GAVE HIM CARDS LEFT TURNED
AROUND AND SAID WHERE THE HECK DID
COULDNT SEE THE CAR REALIZED THEY HAD CROSSED OVER VESEY AND THE CAR WAS RIGHT OVER THERE THERE WAS SUBWAY ENTRANCE ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE STREET RIGHT BY THE CEMETERY
CHURCH
YEAH THE CAR WAS RIGHT UP THERE
RIGHT BY THE ENTRANCE TO THE SUBWAY BRIAN MIGHT
HAVE EVEN HAVE JUMPED PART OF THE CURB THEY
WERE GETTING THE STUFF OUT OF THE TRUNK WE WERE
ALL GETTING DRESSED PUTTING OUR TURNOUT GEAR ON FULL TURNOUT BUNKER GEAR HELMETS COUPLE LIGHTS THE PADS AND STUFF LARRY AGAIN SAID WEVE GOT TO STAY TOGETHER UNTIL WE GET TO THE COMMAND POST
LOOKED UP AND THERE WAS DEBRIS
COMING DOWN PAPERS KNOW PAPERS ALL OVER THE AIR WE LOOKED AT EACH OTHER THE COMMAND POST
WHERE IS IT GOING TO BE ITS GOING TO BE ON WEST STREET SOMEPLACE AROUND THE AREA WHERE IT
THEY GO

OFLAHERTY
WAS DURING THE BOMBING
HOW ARE WE GOING TO GET DOWN WE KNEW
PEOPLE WERE COMING OUT OF THE NORTH TOWER THERE WAS ALL THIS DEBRIS LOOKED ACROSS THE STREET AND KNEW WE COULD GO DOWN LIKE YOU GO INTO THE
SUBWAY RIGHT DOWN TO THE CONCOURSE SO WE DID WE WENT IN OFF CHURCH IN THE DOOR DOWN ONE
FLIGHT OF STAIRS TO THE CONCOURSE LEVEL JUST KNOW HOW TO GO FROM WORKING IN RESCUE AND WORKING THE 1ST DIVISION WHEN WAS IN THE UNION
WE CUT ACROSS THE CONCOURSE THE LIGHTS WERE ON REMEMBER THE LIGHTS IN THE STORES WERE STILL ON IN THE CONCOURSE NOT ALL THE LIGHTS NOT ALL THE LIGHTS IN THE HALLWAY BUT THE LIGHTS IN SOME OF THE STORES WERE STILL ON SAW THAT
STARTED CUTTING ACROSS JUST ABOUT THE TIME YOU COULD SEE NOW YOU GET TO THE AREA
WHERE ALL THE ESCALATORS COME UP FROM THE PATH LINE THATS ON OUR RIGHT NOW ITS DARK
THERE WERE NO MORE LIGHTS IN THE HALLWAYS
JUST BEFORE YOU GET THERE LOOKED TO
THE LEFT THERES HALLWAY WHERE THERES AN ENTRANCE TO GO TO THE SOUTH TOWER COULD LOOK

OFLAHERTY 10
TO THE SOUTH YOU COULD SEE FIGURES OF PEOPLE FIREMEN OR HELMETS IN THE SOUTH TOWER ITS THE LOBBY OF THE SOUTH TOWER ITS TOO FAR TO SEE ANYBODY
JUST FROM PASSING WHERE THE PATH ESCALATORS COME UP ON THE RIGHT THERE WAS AN
ENGINE COMPANY ITS BROOKLYN COMPANY JUST REMEMBER THREE NUMBERS THEY CAME UP AND SAID
CHIEF HOW DO YOU GET TO THE SOUTH TOWER SAID GO UP WAYS YOULL SEE SIGN TO THE RIGHT JUST MAKE RIGHT YOULL GO TO THE SOUTH TOWER
JUST AFTER WE PASSED THEM WE WALKED UP AND THE SPRINKLERS ARE GOING OFF YOU COULD
SEE THE SPRINKLERS GOING OFF THINK IT WAS LARRY THAT SAID THATS GOOD SIGN OF COURSE
NOW WE KNOW THAT WASNT THAT WAS THE WATER
DRAINING OUT OF THE SYSTEM THE SPRINKLERS WERE GOING OFF IN THAT CONCOURSE LEVEL IN THE AREA
OF THE SOUTH TOWER ALL THE SPRINKLERS WERE GOING OFF
WE CUT IN WHEN YOU GO INTO THE LOBBY AT THAT AREA THATS NOT THE LOBBY OF THE
BUILDING THATS LIKE THAT STREET LEVEL LOBBY

OFLAHERTY 11
THE COMMAND POST LEVEL LOBBY IS HIGHER THATS IN THE NORTH TOWER
DONT KNOW WAS JUST LOOKING
LITTLE BIT LARRY SAID IT BEFORE SAW IT HE
SAID HOLY SHIT ALL OF THOSE FIXED WINDOWS IN THE LOBBY WERE BLOWN OUT THEY WERE GONE HE SAID IT AND WAS LOOKING AT IT HE SAID WE CANT GO OUT THERE DONT REMEMBER WHY
KNEW WHY
THE LOBBY OF THE HOTEL THERE
NO THE LOBBY OF TOWER ONE THE NORTH TOWER WE WALKED IN THE LOBBY THE LONG FIXED
WINDOWS ARE BLOWN OUT
AS SOON AS LARRY SAYS IT IM LOOKING
AT THE WINDOWS AND LARRY SAYS WE CANT GO OUT THERE KNEW IN MY MIND WHY THE DEBRIS COMING
DOWN OR PEOPLE COMING DOWN AS SOON AS HE SAID IT THERE WAS NO DOUBT
QUICK LOOKED TO MY LEFT BECAUSE KNOW FROM 93 IN THAT OTHER INCIDENT THE
BOMBING LOOKED TO MY LEFT AND COULD SEE THERES FOUR DOORS OUT OF THE SOUTH END OF THE
LOBBY THAT GO INTO THE HOTEL THEYRE NOT REALLY GREATLY MARKED BUT YOU GO THROUGH THOSE DOORS

SOMETHING
OFLAHERTY 12
SAID WELL GO THIS WAY SAID ABOUT THE HOTEL
WHEN WE FIRST GO THROUGH THOSE DOORS ITS DARK IN THERE THERES NO LIGHTS AND THE
HALLWAY IS DARK WERE WALKING THROUGH AS
WERE GOING THROUGH YOU COULD SEE LIGHT AT THE OTHER END IM WALKING THROUGH AND COULD SEE THESE CONCRETE COLUMNS BIG CONCRETE COLUMNS THREE FEET MAYBE EVEN LARGER THAN THAT MAYBE UP TO FOUR FEET IN DIAMETER JUST MADE NOTE OF
IT
THEN AS YOU COME OUT OF THAT THERES CIRCULAR AREA ITS LIKE ROTUNDA REMEMBER THE CEILING WAS HIGHER THERE THE COLUMNS WERE ALL AROUND THAT ALL AROUND THE WALLS AGAIN
SAID THEY WERENT THERE IN 93 THOSE TOWERS
JUST SAID IN THE BACK OF MY MIND THEY MUST HAVE PUT THOSE THINGS IN WHEN THEY REBUILT THIS PLACE BECAUSE THATS ABOUT THE AREA WHERE THE BOMB WENT OFF
AT THE END WHERE THOSE COLUMNS WERE AND THEN THE COLUMNS ENDED AND JUST BEFORE YOU

OFLAHERTY 13
WALKED INTO THE LOBBY WE WERE LOOKING TOWARD THE LOBBY AND COULD SEE THE GLASS WINDOWS SEE THE HIGH CEILING OF THE LOBBY
BUNCH OF PEOPLE FIRE COULD SEE BACK OF THE COAT
COULD SEE CHIEF
DEPARTMENT
DEPUTY CHIEF GALVIN
GALVIN FROM THE 3RD DIVISION HIS BACK IS TO US
SO KNOW ITS TOMMY
THE REST OF THE PEOPLE ARE FACING US
DONT KNOW IF SAY SOMETHING TO
LARRY OR JUST POINT TO HIM IN MY MIND THE INTENTION WAS TO GO OVER AND SEE GALVIN AND FIND
OUT WHERE THE COMMAND POST WAS EXACTLY WHERE THE COMMAND POST WAS
AS WE WERE WALKING TOWARDS HIM ABOUT ID SAY SIX TO EIGHT FEET FROM GALVIN AND LOT OF GUYS ARE LOOKING AT HIM BUT THE ONE GUY FREDDIE SCHEFFOLD FROM THE 12TH BATTALION HE LOOKED AT ME LOOKED AT HIM YOU KNOW HOW YOU MAKE EYE CONTACT WITH SOMEBODY AND YOU ACKNOWLEDGE EACH OTHER ITS JUST THAT NOD
KNOW HE SEES ME AT THAT EXACT MOMENT CAN
FEEL OR HEAR THE NOISE FIRST HEAR
RIGHT AFTER THAT NOISE YOU COULD FEEL THE
BUILDING START TO SHUDDER TREMBLE UNDER YOUR
NOISE

FEET
OFLAHERTY 14
SOMEBODY SAID TO ME WHATS GOING ON SAID WHATS GOING ON THE FUCKING
BUILDING THE GODDAMN BUILDING IS COMING DOWN ACTUALLY SAID THE FUCKING BUILDING IS COMING
DOWN THIS GODDAMN BUILDING IS COMING DOWN KNEW WHAT WAS COMING DOWN THE BUILDING WAS IN
WAS COMING DOWN
LOOKED REAL QUICK FORWARD DIDNT
LIKE THAT OPTION BECAUSE IT WAS BIG HIGH
LOBBY LOT OF GLASS FIGURED IT WAS NOT THAT WELL SUPPORTED REMEMBER SEEING THOSE COLUMNS
WHOEVER WAS NEXT TO ME THOUGHT IT WAS TELESCA BUT IT ENDED UP BEING MYERS BRIAN MYERS HE SAID WHERE ARE WE GOING TURNED AND SAID WERE GOING BACK TO THOSE COLUMNS
REMEMBER TAKING FEW STEPS AND TRYING TO RUN AND YOURE EITHER THROWN OR BLOWN
OFF YOUR FEET REMEMBER ENDED UP MY FACE WAS
RIGHT UP AGAINST THE WALL COLUMN WAS RIGHT NEAR MY LEFT SHOULDER BIG COLUMN THATS IT IT WAS TERRIBLE NOISE BESIDES THE
THE SOUND WAS HORRENDOUS TO ME IT SOUNDED LIKE STEEL CUTTING THROUGH
BUILDING SHUDDERING

OFLAHERTY 15
STEEL THATS HOW EXPLAIN IT YOURE LAYING THERE THERES STUFF HITTING YOU HAD MY
RIGHT HAND UP BEHIND MY HEAD AND NECK AND
SAID LET IT BE MERCIFUL BECAUSE YOU THINK ITS
ALL OVER NOTHING
YOU
THERES STUFF HITTING YOU BUT
THE STUFF IS DEBRIS FLYING AROUND
NOTHING
NOTHING HITS YOU THE NEXT THING
SOMEBODY COMPARED IT TO AS PELTING YOU YEAH BUT IT WASNT HEAVY
NO
IT WAS LIKE STONE STUFF HITTING YOU AND EVERYTHING THOUGHT IT WAS CEILING TILES THE SUSPENDED CEILING AND SHIT LIKE THAT
ALL OF SUDDEN THE NOISE
THERES NO MORE SHAKING LATER AFTER COUPLE
SECONDS YOU LISTEN MY HEARING IS NOT GREAT
BUT THINK ITS PRETTY ACUTE AT THIS POINT IM
REALLY LISTENING DONT HEAR ANYTHING ELSE GOING ON ITS ALL RIGHT
WAS JUST READY TO SAY SOMETHING OR TRY TO GET UP ACTUALLY THINK TRIED TO PUSH MYSELF UP LITTLE BIT AND RIGHT AWAY KNOW MY
STOPS
JUST

OFLAHERTY
LEFT SHOULDER MY ARM IS HURTING FOR COUPLE SECONDS THEN HEAR
BEHIND ME
16
LAID THERE SOMEBODY COUGH
AS SOON AS HEAR SOMEBODY COUGH YELL WHO IS THAT AGAIN ALWAYS THINK ITS
TELESCA BUT ITS NOT ITS MYERS SAID
WHOS THAT HE RECOGNIZES MY VOICE
WHERE ARE YOU COULD HEAR HIS VOICE KNOW HES BEHIND ME
HAVE MY HAND LIGHT THE CHIEFS HAND LIGHT KNEW IT WAS ON COULD SEE IT WAS ON
PUT IT UP OVER MY HEAD IT WAS DUSTY
STARTED MOVING THE LIGHT CAN YOU SEE THE LIGHT HE SAID NO DONT SEE THE LIGHT WHAT THE HELLS GOING ON COULDNT FIGURE IF IT WAS DEBRIS OR JUST THE DUST
SAID ILL KEEP MOVING THE LIGHT DO IT FEW MORE TIMES HE SAID OH SEE
YOU NOW ILL BE RIGHT THERE IN REAL SHORT TIME HES NEXT TO ME SAID YOUVE GOT TO
HELP ME GET UP BECAUSE COULDNT PUSH MYSELF
UP TRIED TO PUSH MYSELF UP WOULDNT PUT
PRESSURE ON MY SHOULDER HE HELPS ME UP TO MY KNEES
CHIEF

OFLAHERTY
REALIZE MY HELMETS MISSING SAID DO ME FAVOR MY
HELMETS GOT TO BE RIGHT HERE JUST FIND
HELMET MY GLASSES ARE GONE HE SAID DONT
HAVE LIGHT HAND HIM THE LIGHT JUST
STAYED THERE KNEELING FEELING AROUND LITTLE
BIT HE WASNT GONE LONG WHEN HE WAS BACK HE GAVE ME MY HELMET SAID THANKS BECAUSE
AS SOON AS GET TO MY KNEES
WAS AFRAID ME IN THE
WHAT THE
MAYBE AGAIN SIX EIGHT FEET BEHIND FROM WHERE WE LEFT DONT THINK WE TRAVELED IT WAS FLOOR TO CEILING DEBRIS IT WAS JUST SOLID FROM AS HIGH UP AS CAN LOOK WHICH IS PRETTY HIGH AT
SOMETHING NOW WAS GOING FALL AND HIT HEAD AND KILL ME
HE GETS ME UP TO MY FEET HE SAID
HELL HAPPENED WE TURN AROUND AND
FLOOR TO CEILING DEBRIS IM
HEARS IT FIRST THESE
WAS LOOKING AT THE DEBRIS AND LOOKING AROUND AT THE LIGHT HE GAVE ME THE
LIGHT BACK THINK HE YELLS AND DONT KNOW
IF IT WAS TELESCA OR LARRY NO THINK LARRY ANSWERED WE START TO MOVE TOWARDS HIM
THIS POINT ITS
LOOKING AT THAT THINK
BRIAN DO
VOICES BEFORE
MY
17

OFLAHERTY 18
COULD HEAR SOME GUY YELLING MAYDAY MAYDAY ON THE RADIO HANDY TALKY THERES BEEN
COLLAPSE WERE TRAPPED LOOKED IT WAS EDDIE HENRY FROM THE 40 BATTALION RECOGNIZED
HIM HE WAS YELLING
WE GET TO LARRY BY THE TIME WE GET TO
LARRY THE NEXT THING KNOW ALL FOUR OF US ARE THERE LARRYS THERE MIKE TELESCA BRIAN AND
MYSELF
THINK LARRY SAID SOMETHING ABOUT BECAUSE NOBODY WAS ANSWERING HENRY HE SAID
SOMETHING LIKE NOBODYS ANSWERING YOU SHOULD KNOCK IT OFF SAID LARRY LET HIM YELL
MAYBE SOMEBODY WILL HEAR HIM NOBODY KNOWS WE RE HERE
LARRY TURNED ONE WAY TURNED ANOTHER AND THERE WAS LIEUTENANT THERE THERE WAS
WHOLE BUNCH OF DEBRIS REMEMBER HIM SAYING HEY CHIEF CHIEF THERES GUY TRAPPED IN
HERE HE DISAPPEARS THROUGH SMALL HOLE DEBRIS TRIED TO FOLLOW HIM AS SOON AS
IN THE
TRIED TO FOLLOW HIM THAT STUFF HIT MY LEFT SHOULDER IT WAS LIKE WHEW STOP DONT ATTEMPT THAT AGAIN

OFLAHERTY 19
BACK UP AND LARRY IS COMING AGAIN LARRY SAID WHATS UP SAID LARRY THIS
GUY SAYS HES GOT
THE GUY SAID
TURNED AROUND AND
THE GUY FIND OUT HIS NAME YOU KNOW ALL THAT STUFF
GUY IN HERE TRAPPED TOLD CANT GET THROUGH THERE
SAID JUST KEEP TALKING TO
TURN AROUND AND LARRY IS BEHIND ME HE SAID WHATS GOING ON SAID THERES
GUY IN THERE TRAPPED SAID TRIED TO GET THROUGH CANT HURT MY ARM AND CANT
GET THROUGH HE SAID ALL RIGHT LET ME GO SAID IF YOURE GOING THROUGH THERE
WE TRADE LIGHTS FIREMANS LIGHT BIG CHIEF LIGHT
REMEMBER HE HAD THE
HE HAD HAND LIGHT HAD THE
SAID HERE TAKE THAT LIGHT YOU GO THROUGH THERE IM GOING TO GO AS
SOON AS SAID GO HE SAID WHOA WHOA WEVE
GOT TO STAY TOGETHER SAID LARRY WE RE STILL FUCKING TRAPPED IN THIS BUILDING SAID YOU TRY TO GET THE GUY OUT IM GOING TO GO BACK THE WAY WE CAME IN AND SEE IF WE CAN GET WAY OUT SAID BUT ILL COME BACK TO YOU
IF YOU FIND THE GUY COME TO ME THATS WHAT

WELL DO
OFLAHERTY 20
LEAVE ITS COLLAPSING WHEN GET AWAY FROM THIS AREA IN THIS HALLWAY AGAIN ITS
LIKE LEAN TO BUT JUST BEFORE GET TO THE HALLWAY FIND DOOR OPEN THE DOOR ITS
STORAGE ROOM QUICK LOOK IN THERES NO OUTLETS
REMEMBER FEELING COLD AIR THOUGHT IN THE BACK OF MY MIND CLOSE THE DOOR IF YOU
STAY TO THE LEFT YOU CAN BEND OVER AND WALK UP THIS HALLWAY DOWN TO THE RIGHT WHERE ITS LIKE
LEAN TO YOU HAVE TO CRAWL STAYED ALONG THE WALL GO ALONG
ALL OF SUDDEN THERES THIS
YELLING AND THERES DOOR OPEN AND ITS
CIVILIAN ASKED WHO HE IS AND HE SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT HOTEL SECURITY HE SAID IVE GOT DOOR THINK ITS AN EXIT SAID WHERE DOES IT GO HE SAID DOWN SAID DOWNWHERE HE SAID WELL THINK YOU HAVE TO GO DOWN ONE OR TWO FLIGHTS
SAID WHOA WERE NOT GOING DOWN ANYPLACE HE SAID GIVE ME LIGHT SAID
NICE FUCKING TRY YOURE NOT GETTING MY LIGHT
GUY

OFLAHERTY 21
EITHER SAID STAY HERE WERE NOT GOING CHANGING LEVELS WE HAVE OTHER PEOPLE AT THIS LEVEL WERE GOING TO LEAVE TOGETHER
BANG ON THE GATE ANSWER
LITTLE WHILE NOTHING BANGED SOME MORE DID THAT LIKE THREE OR FOUR TIMES
REALIZED THERES NOBODY ANSWERING ON THE OTHER
SIDE AND CANT KEEP STAYING HERE DONT HAVE THE RADIO DONT REMEMBER WHO HAD THE
RADIO THINK LARRY HAD IT IM NOT SURE HAD NO RADIO YOU CANT HEAR ANYTHING
AFTER THREE OR FOUR TIMES BANGING
SAID THIS IS NO GOOD START TO TURN BACK TO GO
BACK TOWARDS WHERE LARRY AND EVERYBODY WAS BUT AS GO BACK NOTICED DOOR ON MY RIGHT
DIDNT SEE ON THE WAY OUT BECAUSE WAS FOCUSED ON THOSE GATES
OPENED THAT DOOR UP IT MIGHT HAVE
THEN CONTINUE UP GO UP AND FIND WHERE WE CAME IN BUT THE ROLLED UP GATES COME DOWN AND THEYRE SOLID METAL HAVE NO RADIO SO TAKE THE HAND
SAID EXIT ON IT IM NOT SURE OR
LIGHT
LIGHT AND BANG ON THE DOOR WAIT HOPING SOMEBODY WILL

OFLAHERTY 22
OPENED THE DOOR TEN FEET IN THERES ANOTHER
DOOR QUICK OPEN THAT ONE GO TO THE NEXT ONE AND THERES THIRD DOOR SAID QOPS THIS IS
NO GOOD TOO MANY DOORS GO BACK
JUST AS GO BACK THERES CIVILIAN
AND DONT KNOW IF ITS THE SAME GUY MET THE FIRST TIME OR NOT AGAIN CIVILIAN CLOTHES
SAID YOU STAY BY THIS FIRST DOOR YOU KEEP THE DOOR OPEN IM GOING THROUGH THE SECOND DOOR THERES ANOTHER DOOR IF START YELLING YOU JUST YELL DIDNT KNOW IF
MAZE OR NOT YOU JUST YELL
AS SOON AS
THERES HOLE IN THE WALL COULD SEE OUT ONTO
WAS GOING THROUGH
OPENED THE THIRD DOOR
WEST STREET THIS IS
IS ABOUT IVE GOT TO SAY FOUR AND HALF TO
FIVE FEET OFF THE GROUND BUT YOU COULD SEE OUT ALL YOU COULD SEE IS THE DUST AND DEBRIS AT THAT POINT DONT SEE ANYBODY OUT THERE
THERES DOOR TO THE RIGHT OPENED THAT DOOR THEN COULD SEE DOOR THAT SAYS EXIT ANOTHER DOOR SAID SCREW THIS RUN BACK OKAY HAVE HOLE THE WALL HAVE DOOR MARKED EXIT RUN BACK START MOVING
BLOCK WALL AND THE HOLE

OFLAHERTY 23
BACK THERE ARE CIVILIANS THERE START
YELLING
YOU KEEP YELLING
WE HAVE AN EXIT HERE TELL THEM
JUST THEN ED HENRY COMES HES THE FIRST GUY THAT GETS THERE SO HE GOES BACK WITH
ME TELL THE GUY KEEP YELLING THE GUY STARTS YELLING COME THIS WAY WE HAVE WAY
OUT WE HAVE WAY OUT
WENT BACK WITH ED HENRY HE GETS TO
THE OPENING IN THE WALL REMEMBER HE YELLS
COUPLE OF MAYDAYS ON THE RADIO AGAIN HES FRUSTRATED BECAUSE HES YELLING AND THERE
NOBODY ANSWERING
SAID ED THERES DOOR THERE WE
OPEN THAT DOOR HE GOES DOWN HE LEAVES ME HE GOES DOWN AND WATCH HIM HE PUSHES AND OPENS EIGHT INCHES OR SO AND IT WONT MOVE ANYMORE SAID SHOOT SAID THERE IS STILL NOBODY THERE SAID CANT REALLY HELP TOO MUCH
TURNED AROUND AND SAID WOULD PUT MY BACK
AGAINST THE DOOR YOU PUSH IT OPENS TO MAYBE 12 INCHES BUT IT STOPS LIKE DEAD THATS NOT GOING
TO WORK
WE GO BACK HES STILL YELLING THE

OFLAHERTY 24
MAYDAY SAID ED USE THE HAND LIGHT USE THE LIGHT HES SHAKING IT BACK AND FORTH IN
FEW MINUTES HE COMES AGAIN HES FRUSTRATED NOW MORE PEOPLE ARE NO THEYRE NOT THERE YET
CAN HEAR THE GUY YELLING CAN HEAR PEOPLE COMING
ED HENRY GETS CHAIR AND HE CLIMBS ON SAID WHERE ARE YOU GOING HE
THIS CHAIR
SAID IM GOING TO GO OVER THE WALL AND SEE IF
CAN GET THE DOOR OPEN HES CLIMBING ALREADY
THOUGHT OH SHIT HES GOT NO HELMET ON SAID IF YOURE GOING OVER THE
WALL AND GIVE HIM MY HELMET IM AFRAID IF HE GOES OVER THE WALL AND SOMETHING HITS HIM IN
THE FUCKING HEAD HE WONT BE ABLE TO OPEN THE DOOR FOR US
HE NO SOONER GOES OVER THE DOOR AND
DISAPPEARS HE GOES TO THE RIGHT CANT SEE HIM ANYMORE SAID TO MYSELF THAT WASNT
SMART GIVING UP YOUR HELMET KNEW WHY DID IT
THE NEXT THING KNOW LARRYS THERE THESE TWO OFFICERS OH BRIAN MYERS IS THERE
UP

OFLAHERTY 25
THOUGHT MIKE WAS THERE BUT HE WASNT
DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED
BUT HE WASNT THERE KNOW NOW BUT HE WASNT WITH US AND THE TWO GUYS
THE ONE GUY SAID WHO ARE YOU
SAID SOMETHING ABOUT THE GUY THAT WAS TRAPPED LARRY SAID YEAH THIS IS THE GUY WE HAVE
HIM SAID WHERE ARE YOU FROM COMPANY HE SAID NO WERE FROM RESCUE SCHOOL WE
SHOULDNT BE HERE KNOW HAD FEELING WE WERENT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE EITHER BECAUSE NOBODY KNOWS WERE HERE
AND THERE WERE COUPLE CIVILIANS THINK MAYBE IN GENERAL BETWEEN ED HENRY HIS
AIDE BRIAN FIGURED THERE WAS ABOUT TEN PEOPLE THERE AT MOST THATS ALL THAT CAME FROM THE
AREA THAT SURVIVED
TURN AROUND AND COULD SEE SOMEBODY
WITH WHITE HELMET WALKING WHICH TO ME LOOKS
LIKE HES WALKING TOWARDS US KEEP WATCHING HES GETTING CLOSER DONT HAVE MY GLASSES
MY GLASSES ARE GONE HES NOT TOO FAR AWAY AND
REALIZE ITS
LARRY HAD TALKED TO ONE OF THE
RAY DOWNEY

OFLAHERTY 26
CIVILIANS AND THE GUY HAD SOME KIND OF PROBLEM DIDNT KNOW IF HE WAS HURT DIDNT KNOW IF
HE HAD HEART CONDITION REMEMBER LARRY
SAYING THIS GUY SAID HE CANT WERE GOING TO
GO OUT IF WE HAVE TO GO OVER THE WALL THIS GUY SAID SOMETHING ABOUT HE COULDNT HE NEEDED HELP
JUST THEN RAY CAME WAS TALKING TO HIM WE WERE TALKING THROUGH THE HOLE IN THE WALL HE SAID YOURE NOT GOING TO BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENED THIS GUY HAS GOT TO GET OUT OF HERE LARRY COMES OVER LARRYS TALKING TO HIM
BACKED UP LITTLE BIT THINK LARRY OR ED ONE OF THEM SAID LETS GO WEVE GOT TO START GETTING OUT OF HERE
TURNED FIRST AND SAID LARRY ILL STAY HERE BECAUSE IM GOING TO HAVE TROUBLE
HE SAID KNOCK IT OFF YOURE THE FIRST
WERE GETTING OUT OF HERE BECAUSE YOU CANT TAKE
CARE OF YOURSELF
WE GO OVER THERE AND THINK HE WANTS
TO LIFT ME UP SEE THE CHAIR THERE THAT HENRY HAD PUSHED OVER TO THE SIDE SAID GRAB THE
CHAIR AND PUT IT TO THE BACK TURN IT BACKWARDS STOOD ON THE CHAIR BACKWARDS MAYBE STOOD ON
GUY

OFLAHERTY 27
THE BACK OF THE CHAIR AND THEN BRIAN MYERS AND
LARRY BOOSTED ME UP ON THE WALL SWUNG MY LEGS AROUND
RAY IS THERE AND HE WANTED TO GRAB ME
SAID NO JUST PUT MY RIGHT ARM TO HIS RIGHT SHOULDER HE PUT HIS ARM UP AND SLID
DOWN THE WALL HE KEPT SAYING TO ME JUST WALK
AWAY FROM THE BUILDING AS FAST AS YOU CAN AND HEAD TOWARDS FEEHAN AND GANCI CAN YOU SEE
THEM HE POINTED TO THEM COULD SEE JUST TWO WHITE HELMETS WAY ACROSS WEST STREET ALMOST BY
THE CURB COULD SEE THEM
STARTED TO MANEUVER AROUND THE
SIDEWALK WASNT TOO BAD WITH DEBRIS THERE WERE COUPLE RIGS THERE REMEMBER SEEING 10 TRUCK
THATS WHERE THE SIDEWALK COMES IN AND CURVES IN THAT RIG WAS PARTIALLY TURNED IN LIKE THAT
REMEMBER SEEING THE RIG THERE
SAW 10 ON THE LADDER SAW 10 TRUCK
ON THE LADDER WALKED BEHIND THAT IN FRONT OF
DECIDED TO WALK ACROSS WEST STREET THERES ALL THAT DUST LIKE MOONSCAPE AS YOU
WALK EVERY ONCE IN WHILE ON DUST DIDNT REALIZE IT THEN BUT WHAT YOURE DOING IS THE DUST
PUMPER

OFLAHERTY 28
IS COVERING THAT STAINLESS STEEL WHEN YOU HAVE STAINLESS STEEL AND DUST ITS LIKE
SHUFFLEBOARD WHEN GOT THAT QUICK MOVEMENT MY ARM WOULD GO OH DONT DO THAT FUCKING MOVE ANYMORE STUPID
IM MOVING ACROSS THAT IM TRYING TO
PICK MY WAY IT WAS PRETTY SLOW IN THE BEGINNING SEE SOMEBODY WITH BLACK HELMET
COMING FROM MY RIGHT JUST TRIED TO KEEP
IM FOCUSED ON THOSE TWO WHITE HELMETS KEEP GOING GET ACROSS THE STREET
ABOUT THIRD OF THE WAY OVER THE GUY WITH THE BLACK HELMET COMES DONT REALIZE WHO IT WAS KNOW NOW IT WAS AL FUENTES BECAUSE WE
MOVING
TALKED ABOUT IT NEVER REALIZED
WAS SO FOCUSED ON GETTING TO GANCI AND FEEHAN
HE HELPS ME ABOUT TWO THIRDS OF THE WAY AFTER ABOUT TWO THIRDS OF THE WAY ACROSS WEST STREET MOST OF THAT DEBRIS STOPS ITS EASIER TO MANEUVER HE LEAVES ME
GET TO GANCI AND FEEHAN JUST TELL THEM HOW MANY PEOPLE THERE ARE WHOS THERE
WHERE WERE YOU HOW MANY PEOPLE SURVIVED
SAID THERE WAS ABOUT 10 MAYBE 11 PEOPLE WHERE WE
GUESS

OFLAHERTY 29
ARE ANYBODY BURIED SAID TBERE WERE TWO GUYS THAT WE FOUND ONE GUY WAS BURIED ONE KID
HAD DUG HIMSELF OUT ONE LIEUTENANT AND THE OTHER GUY THEY WENT BACK WITH LARRY AND GOT OUT
SAID THATS THE ONLY TWO THEY SAID THEY HEARD BECAUSE THEY SAID THERES NOBODY ELSE THEY HEARD ALL SAW WAS DEBRIS FROM FLOOR TO CEILING WE WERE JUST TRAPPED IN THIS LITTLE CORNER OF THE BUILDING ILL SHOW YOU ON THE DIAGRAM LATER
OKAY GANCI TURNS AROUND AND SAYS TO ME CAN YOU MOVE ON YOUR OWN OR DO YOU NEED HELP SAID NO HE HAD HIS HANDS FULL
SAID ILL MOVE ON MY OWN JUST AS IM
LEAVING HE SAID WHERES RAY WHERE ARE YOU GUYS TURN AROUND LOOK BACK AT THE HOTEL AGAIN YOU CANT SEE DONT SEE CLEAR WITHOUT MY GLASSES BUT ITS STILL DUSTY COULD SEE RAYS HELMET COULD SEE THE WHITE HELMET
SAID YOU SEE THE HELMET HE SAID WHERE WHERE SEE IT ITS RIGHT WHERE THE
BUILDING BENDS ALMOST IN THE HOTEL SAID
RIGHT THERE THATS RAY OKAY LARRY AND THEM ARE ON THE INSIDE OF THAT WALL ALL RIGHT HE KNOWS WHERE THEY ARE NOW HE SAID YOU TAKE

OFLAHERTY 30
THINK IT WAS AROUND THEN
COAT UP AND STICK MY HAND INTO THE COAT CLOSE THE COAT UP IM LOOKING AT DEBRIS ITS BETTER
TO STAY UP ON THE SIDEWALK ON THE SIDEWALK
ACROSS THE STREET MOVE ALONG THEN AT THE POINT
WHERE THE ROADWAY MOVES IN IT GOES UNDER WHERE
THE BRIDGE GOES ACROSS
AT THAT POINT IT CLEARS UP LITTLE
BIT AND MOVE MORE TO THE RIGHT ONTO THE STREET OFF THE SIDEWALK MOVE INTO THE STREET
GET UNDER THE ROADWAY
THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE
THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE WANTED TO
STOP BECAUSE ONE KNEW WAS PROTECTED FROM DEBRIS COMING DOWN BUT SOMETHING IN THE BACK OF
MY MIND SAID DONT FUCKING STOP BECAUSE YOURE
NOT GOING TO STOP MOVING SO DIDNT STOP WALKED LITTLE BIT FURTHER IF
HAD TO GUESS IT WOULD HAVE BEEN TOWER LADDER
SAW SAW RESCUE LS RIG ON MY RIGHT
REMEMBER SEEING IT IT WASNT REALLY DAMAGED NOTHING FROM THE FIRST COLLAPSE IT HAD LOT OF DUST ALL OVER IT SAW IT THERE NOBODY BY THE
OFF
OPENED MY

RIG
OFLAHERTY 31
JUST PASSING THAT IM WALKING
THINK THERES TOWER LADDER TO MY RIGHT SAW
GUY WALKING ITS JOE ANGELINI FROM RESCUE DO DOUBLE TAKE BECAUSE HE DIDNT HAVE
RESCUE EVERYTHING
HELMET ON HE HAD BUNKER GEAR AND ELSE ON
SAID JOE DID YOU SEE RESCUE
HE SAID NO IM TRYING TO FIND IT DIDNT
REALIZE HE HAD BEEN ON LIGHT DUTY AND CAME FROM SOC OVER AT THE TAC UNIT SAID HOWMUCH FURTHER IS VESEY STREET BECAUSE THATS WHAT PETE TOLD ME PETE SAID GET TO VESEY STREET AND THERES AMBULANCES THERE SAID ALL RIGHT THATS WHERE IM TRYING TO GET TO
JOEY SAID YOU WILL SEE THE COLLAPSE UNITS PARKED UP THERE IT WASNT THAT MUCH
FURTHER REMEMBER SEEING RESCUES COLLAPSE RIG REMEMBER SEEING THE VOLVO ON THE FRONT
THE VOLVO CAB WAS FACING WEST THAT WAS THE RIG WALKED IN FRONT OF IT
WENT UP THERE LOOKED AROUND AND
SAW NO AMBULANCES SAW LOT OF PEOPLE AROUND
REMEMBER SEEING SOMEBODY IN WHITE HELMET

OFLAHERTY 32
DONT THINK IT WAS ONE OF OURS IT COULD HAVE BEEN EMS JUST BECAUSE DONT RECOGNIZE WHO IT WAS
REMEMBER ASKING THE QUESTION WHERE ARE THE AMBULANCES SOMEBODY SAID OH TWO OR
THREE MORE BLOCKS MY FAMOUS QUOTE IS YOUVE
GOT TO BE FUCKING KIDDING ME AT THIS POINT BECAUSE MADE IT THIS FAR AND TWO OR THREE MORE
BLOCKS AT THIS POINT DOESNT SEEM LIKE AN OPTION
SOMEBODY OFF TO MY LEFT
IF HE TOUCHED ME ON THE SHOULDER OR
DONT KNOW HEARD HIS
VOICE TURNED LITTLE BIT TO MY
SAID CHIEF YOU DONT HAVE TO GO THERE JUST GO WEST GO WEST HES POINTING GO WEST ON VESEY THERES TRIAGE AREA UP THERE MUCH CLOSER
START WALKING WEST DONT THINK GET MORE THAN 100 FEET UP PAST THE CURB LINE
HEADING WEST ON THAT STREET AND THE FIRST THING HEAR IS THIS ROAR AND PEOPLE SCREAMING HAVE
CHANCE TO LOOK OVER MY LEFT SHOULDER
AS IM LOOKING OVER MY LEFT SHOULDER
SEE SHADOW COMING TOWARDS ME THOUGHT IT WAS ANOTHER PLANE DIDNT THINK THE BUILDING WAS
LEFT HE

OFLAHERTY 33
COMING DOWN THOUGHT IT WAS ANOTHER PLANE COULDNT BELIEVE IT
TRIED MOVED AS FAST AS
COULDNT
RUN
TO RUN
COULD KNEW THERE WERE
PEOPLE RUNNING PAST ME COULD FEEL IT THE NEXT THING YOURE AGAIN BLOWN THROWN OFF YOUR
FEET
AT THIS POINT NOW IM TRYING TO PROTECT MY LEFT ARM IM USING MY RIGHT ARM TO PROTECT
IT ITS IN THE COAT DROVE BOTH MY KNEES
INTO THE GROUND IM STILL NOT PUTTING MY HAND OUT AND SMACKED MY FACE RIGHT INTO THE GROUND
BOUNCED OFF THE GROUND OH SHIT LOOK UP JUST BEFORE IT TURNS PITCH BLACK ALL CAN REMEMBER SEEING WAS BLOOD ALL OVER THE GROUND LAYING THERE THE NEXT THING IT GOES
PITCH BLACK YOU CANT SEE ANYTHING
ALL KNEW IS THERE WAS CHAIN LINK
FENCE RIGHT NEXT TO ME TRIED TO AGAIN TURN MY FACE NOSE OVER TOWARDS THE FENCE LITTLE
BIT IT DIDNT MAKE DIFFERENCE BECAUSE WITHIN HALF MINUTE OR SO COULDNT BREATHE THERE WAS BLOOD IN MY NOSE AND ALL THAT CONCRETE TURNED TO LIKE CEMENT

OFLAHERTY 34
GOT MY HAND OVER MY HEAD AGAIN CANT EVEN BELIEVE THIS IS HAPPENING THIS IS
THE SECOND WHAT IS GOING ON CANT BELIEVE THEY DIDNT SHOOT THE PLANE THOUGHT IT WAS
PLANE WHY DIDNT THEY FUCKING SHOOT THIS PLANE OUT OF THE AIR
PUT MY HAND OVER MY HEAD AGAIN
THINK ITS ALL OVER LET IT BE MERCIFUL SECOND
TIME SAID THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE COULD FEEL
THINGS ACTUALLY FLYING THROUGH THE AIR
CANT
PRESSURE CHANGING KNOW THERES SHIT FLYING THROUGH THE
AIR SAID SOMETHING IS GOING TO WHACK ME THIS IS GOING TO BE OVER IM LAYING THERE
ALL OF SUDDEN SOMEBODY AGAIN BEHIND ME COULD FEEL THEM NOT FAR FROM MY RIGHT
FOOT CAN HEAR THE VOICE CANT BREATHE
IVE GOT TO GET UP SAID DONT GET UP FIRST OFF ITS PITCH BLACK THERES NO WAY YOU
CAN TELL WHERE YOURE GOING TWO FEEL THESE THINGS FLYING THROUGH THE AIR THIS GUY LET ME
GET UP YOURE GOING TO GET FUCKING KILLED
SAID JUST STAY ON THE GROUND PUT YOUR FACE TO THE GROUND AND TRY TO BREATHE THE BEST YOU CAN
HEAR THEM ACTUALLY FEEL LIKE

OFLAHERTY 35
DONT GET UP
COUPLE MINUTES OR SO HEAR THE GUY
SAYING THE SAME THING SAID DONT GET UP JUST STAY DOWN TO ME IT SEEMS LIKE FIVE
MINUTES DONT KNOW IN THE BACK OF MY MIND HOW LONG BUT ITS DARK FOR LONG TIME ITS HARD TO BREATHE YOU COULD HARDLY EVEN BREATHE
THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW YOU COULD SEE OFF THE GROUND LITTLE BIT OF LIGHT YOU SEE IT
JUST STARTING TO LIFT OKAY HE SAID SOMETHING AND SAID LET IT LIFT LITTLE BIT MORE
JUST AS IT LIFTED LITTLE BIT MORE HE SAID
IM OUT OF HERE SAID WHOA WHOA YOUVE GOT TO DO ME FAVOR YOUVE GOT TO HELP ME GET
UP BECAUSE COULDNT GET UP COULDNT EVEN MOVE AT THIS POINT
WHOEVER IT WAS HE CAME UP
REMEMBER SOMEBODY GRABBED THE BACK OF THE COAT
MY TURNOUT COAT HELPED ME TO MY FEET IM ON MY FEET AND THATS IT HE FINISHED HIS COMMITMENT
SEE THIS GUY GONE THINK ITS CIVILIAN
ONLY BECAUSE THE ONLY THING CAN REALLY SEE IS GUY WITH CIVILIAN CLOTHES AND WHITE SHIRT
RUNNING NO TURNOUT GEAR HES GONE

OFLAHERTY 36
HOBBLE OUT OF THERE WITH TWO OF MY
KNEES KILLING ME AND EVERYTHING ELSE HOBBLE DOWN THE STREET THE FIRST THING SEE IS
COULD SEE LOUIE GARCIA COULD SEE THE CHAIN LINK FENCE THE LOT ON THE RIGHT AND THEN THERES BUILDING UP THERE
SEE LOUIS GARCIA IM TALKING TO
HIM HE SAID OH GOD BRIAN YOURE ALIVE HE TOLD ME TO GO INSIDE THERES EMS IN THERE
GO INSIDE ITS LIKE DELI OR SOMETHING SOME KIND OF FOOD ESTABLISHMENT EMS GUYS IN THERE
WAS LOOKING FOR WATER SAW
COOLER AND SAID GIVE ME WATER IM TRYING TO DRINK IT HAD THESE GUYS TELLING ME DONT
SWALLOW IT NO SHIT SHERLOCK GIVE ME THE
FUCKING WATER WAS JUST TRYING TO DRINK IT SPIT IT OUT DRINK IT SPIT IT OUT CANT
BREATHE THROUGH MY NOSE IM DOING THAT
JUST THEN LOUIS COMES BACK IN AND JOE
CALLAN REMEMBER CHIEF CALLAN SAT RIGHT
OPPOSITE ME HEARD HIM SAY OH BRIAN YOU RE ALIVE OH MY GOD YOURE ALIVE LOOKED AT
HIM HE SAID WAS WITH FATHER MYCHAL HE WAS RIGHT NEXT TO ME HES DEAD

OFLAHERTY 37
AN EMS GUY CAME OVER BECAUSE GARCIA
SAID SOMETHING HE LOOKED AT COUPLE OF THINGS HE WENT TO TOUCH MY ARM REMEMBER HIM SAYING
WEVE GOT TO GET HIM OUT OF HERE CANT TREAT HIM DONT KNOW IF HE CAME WITH ME OR HE GOT
SOMEBODY ELSE TWO PEOPLE WALKED ME AROUND THE CORNER WE WERE GOING AROUND THIS BUILDING TO
THE HARBOR SIDE AND THATS WHERE THE TRIAGE AREA WAS
THEY DID QUICK TRIAGE THEY TAKE ME IN THE LOBBY THERE WAS CAPTAIN OR CHIEF EMS
SAID YOUVE GOT TO GET THIS FUCKING YOUVE GOT TO MOVE THIS AREA ITS TOO
IM THINKING IF THIS IS ANOTHER PLANE THEY CANT IN MY MIND NOW THERES ANOTHER ONE COMING BEHIND IT
THEY TRIAGED ME AFTER WHILE GUESS THERES NOBODY COMING IN ONE OF THE BOSSES CAME
IN AND SAID GET ALL THE FIREMEN GET THEM SOME MAN COMES OVER AND SAID THEYRE GOING TO PUT
ME IN CHAIR STRETCHER BY NOW THEY HAD PUT SLING ON MY ARM CRAVAT TYPE SLING
THERE
TRIAGE CLOSE

OFLAHERTY 38
GOT ANOTHER BOTTLE OF WATER FROM SOME CIVILIAN BECAUSE IM STILL TRYING TO WASH
EVERYTHING OUT THAT WAS IT THEY PUT ME IN AMBULANCE
THERE WAS CAPTAIN THEY WERE LAYING HIM DOWN THEY SAID WE HAVE TO PUT MORE THAN
ONE PERSON IN THE AMBULANCE THERE ARENT MANY AMBULANCES THERE SAW THE JUMP SEAT SAID
WANTED TO SIT UP SO COULD CONTROL AND HOLD MY ARM SO WENT UP IN THE FRONT IN THE JUMP SEAT
THEY SAID CHIEF CAN YOU OPEN YOUR LEGS UP THEY PUT THE GURNEY OR THE STRETCHER
IN AND THERE WAS HANDS TALKING
DONT REMEMBER HIS NAME HE WAS UNDER THE BRIDGE WHEN THE COLLAPSE
OCCURRED AND HE THINKS HES THE ONLY GUY IN HIS COMPANY THAT SURVIVED KNOW THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT HIM HAVING BROKEN BONES IN AT LEAST THE ARM AND LEG ON ONE SIDE
THEY PUT COUPLE MORE CIVILIANS IN THE BUS WHEN THE BUS DOOR WAS CLOSING REMEMBER
COVERING 22 ENGINE
CAPTAIN REMEMBER HOLDING REMEMBER HIM SAYING HE WAS
THE GUY SAYING WHERE ARE WE GOING THEM SAYING ALL FIREMEN GO TO BELLEVUE
HEARD

OFLAHERTY 39
BELLEVUE THAT WAS IT
TWO THINGS LEFT OUT EARLIER OR ONE
THING GUESS WHEN IM BY GANCI ITS GOT TO BE ON HIS RADIO BECAUSE
HANDY TALKY HEAR GUY GIVING
MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY HE IDENTIFIES HE GOES RIGHT THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCEDURE
DONT THINK PETE ANSWERS HIM BUT WHOEVER ANSWERS
THE MAYDAY HEAR THEY SAID WHERE ARE YOU LADDER THEY WERE IN THE HOTEL REMEMBER
HIM SAYING THAT AND HES TRAPPED
THATS THE POINT IM LEAVING AND PETES
TELLING ME YOU GET GOING HEAD NORTH TO THE AREA WHERE THE AMBULANCES ARE
THATS REALLY THE ONLY HANDY TALKY
HEARD OTHER THAN TRYING TO GIVE MAYDAYS EARLIER ALL WE HAD WERE THE VISUALS
YEAH SURE
THATS IT
WITH THE MAP WHERE DO YOU THINK THE
HOLE WAS
WHAT HOLE
THIS IS LADDER OV
IDENTIFY YOURSELF MIKE BRENNAN YOUNG GUY KNOW
MESSAGE
CAN HEAR DONT HAVE
MAYDAY

OFLAHERTY 40
THAT YOU CAME OUT OF OH
SEE WHERE IT SAYS THE WORLD TRADE CENTER THREE VISTA HOTEL
MARRIOTT
BUILDING
YEAH
ITS PAST THAT BEND THE END OF THE
RIGHT
MAYBE 10 12 FEET FROM THE END OF THE
DONT KNOW IF ITS THE VISTA NO ITS THE VISTA INTERNATIONAL
MARRIOTT
SEE WHERE THE BEND IS
ANYMORE
BUILDING BACK TOWARDS THAT ITS ON THE FLAT SECTION
YOU WALKED DIRECTLY ACROSS TO TWO WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER
PROBABLY MOVED DIAGONALLY LITTLE SEE WHERE THAT RED LINE IS
RIGHT
BECAUSE AS SAID REMEMBER THATS WHERE THAT LITTLE BEND IS WALKED BEHIND 10 TRUCK 10 TRUCK IS PARTIALLY INTO THAT NOSE IN

OFLAHERTY 41
BECAUSE WHEN YOU COME OFF WEST YOU CAN PULL IN
RIGHT
BENT IN WALKED BEHIND THEM
SO YOU WOUND UP
THEN WHEN WALKED BEHIND
THERE THEN GO STRAIGHT ACROSS IM PROBABLY HEADING YEAH RIGHT
THEM FROM
SO ON THIS MAP
BRIDGE ON
FINANCIAL
THIS ISNT EXACTLY THE PEDESTRIAN
THIS MAP IS TOO FAR NORTH
BUT IM WALKING TOWARDS THAT TWO WORLD CENTER
YEAH OKAY
BECAUSE COULD SEE THAT BUILDING
COULD SEE IT THOUGHT SAW AMBULANCES OVER THERE EVEN THOUGHT ONE OF THEM FLIPPED OVER
OKAY
THERE WERE BIG PIECES OF STEEL LAYING OUT IN THE STREET LONG WAYS REMEMBER SEEING THAT
THEYRE NOT ON THE SIDEWALK BUT
THEYRE RIGHT BY THE SIDEWALK BECAUSE WHEN
LEAVE THEM REALIZE THE SIDEWALK IS RIGHT THERE
THEYRE ABOVE THE SIDEWALK WHAT

OFLAHERTY 42
THEY WERE ON THAT GRASSY KNOLL ON TOP OF THE SIDEWALK
NO NO THEYRE RIGHT BY WHERE THE SIDEWALK STARTS RIGHT IN THE STREET
IN THE STREET
PETE AND FEEHAN ARE WAY ACROSS NOT TOO
MANY FEET
TALKING SIDEWALK
BECAUSE DONT REALIZE IT WHEN IM
TO THEM BUT WHEN LEAVE THEM SEE THE
IT MUST HAVE BEEN COUPLE FEET OH WHEN LEAVE PETE WHEN TURN
TURN AROUND AND GO BEHIND HIM WHEN WERE LOOKING FOR RAY TO POINT TO HIM THATS THE FIRST TIME THAT NOW SEE WHAT HAPPENED NOW SEE
OFF TO YOUR RIGHT
COULD SEE THE PARTS OF THE STEEL
STILL STANDING COULD SEE THE STEEL CUT THROUGH THE HOTEL BEFORE NEVER SAW WHAT
HAPPENED DIDNT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED NOW KNOW THE TOWER CAME DOWN TO ME IT LOOKS LIKE
100 150 FEET OF STEEL IS STICKING UP BUT THERE ARE OTHER PIECES COULD SEE WHERE THEY CUT RIGHT THROUGH THE HOTEL
IN MY OWN MIND THINK EVERYTHING WE

OFLAHERTY 43
GOT IN THAT WE WERE PROBABLY IN THAT AREA
JUST THAT LITTLE AREA WHERE THE BEND IS FROM THERE WHERE THAT BEND IS THATS WHERE WE ARE THATS THE PIECE THAT SURVIVED THINK
EVERYTHING SOUTH OF THAT IS GONE MAYBE NOT BUT
THINK EVERYTHING SOUTH OF ME WAS COMPLETELY
GONE AT THAT POINT YEAH
WALK ACROSS SEE THEM THEN WALK UP YOURE RIGHT THIS IS FURTHER BACK
RIGHT
IT BENDS IN UNDER HERE
WHERE THE WINTER GARDEN IS
YEAH IT BENDS IN UNDER THERE WHEN IT BENDS IN TOWARDS THE WINTER GARDEN IS WHERE COME IN OFF THE CURB AND THEN MOVE UP
OVER HERE
MULTISHOCK
KNOW THEYVE GOT YOU ON VIDEOTAPE
OKAY
YOU WERE TALKING TO AL
DONT KNOW WHO TALKED TO KNOW KNOW WE WERE ALL IN
DONT KNOW WHO TALKED

OFLAHERTY 44
THEYVE GOT YOU ON VIDEOTAPE HERE ON THE RIGHT ON THE PART SAW ON THIS CORNER
THEN YOURE SAYING YOU WENT UP THIS STREET
NOW GO THIS WAY BECAUSE WHOEVER IT
IS WHEN GET HERE AND SAID THERES NO AMBULANCES HERE ITS NOT BIG LONG CONVERSATION ITS LIKE WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE AMBULANCES
EXACTLY
THEY SAID TWO OR THREE BLOCKS NORTH
SAID NO CANT WALK TWO OR THREE MORE BLOCKS SO GO HERE BET YOU DONT GET 100 FEET UP HERE WHEN THIS THING STARTS TO GO
DONT REALLY KNOW
IN MY OWN OPINION THOUGHT WHAT HAPPENED WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MADE ME
SURVIVE THE SECOND ONE WAS GOT FAR ENOUGH THAT
THIS BUILDING SHIELDED THIS THE CORNER GOT
JUST FAR ENOUGH UP THAT CORNER OF THAT BUILDING WAS SHIELDED FROM DEBRIS
YEAH OKAY
ABOUT 100 FEET OVER HERE AFTER
YOU SEE ME HERE MAYBE 100 FEET FROM THERE THATS
WHEN HEAR THAT NOISE YOU DONT HAVE IT MARKED

XMP BODYHTML
HERE BUT THERES
BUILDING THIS IS
FENCE AND LOT
RIGHT
CHAIN
LINK
CHIEF LAKIOTES THE INTERVIEW IT IS
HOURS
THANK YOU BRIAN
CONCLUDES APPROXIMATELY 1225
OFLAHERTY
BUILDING HERE THERE YEAH LOT THERES
45
THIS IS THE BUILDING IT
HERE AND THE ENTRANCE TO THE BUILDING IS OVER HERE ON THE SIDE BY THE HARBOR THATS WHERE THE TRIAGE AREA IS
OKAY THAT
HAS
DELI
File No. 9110432
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER JOHN BUTLER
    Interview Date:  January 9, 2002
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
2
     January 8, 2002.  The time is 12:12.  This is
     Battalion Chief Frank Congiusta of the Safety
     Division of the New York City Fire
     Department.  I'm conducting an interview with
     Firefighter John Butler, Firefighter 1st,
     assigned to Engine 6 of the New York City
     Fire Department.  We are at the engine office
     of Engine 6.  This is regarding the events of
     September 11, 2001.
     A.   On the morning of September 11, Engine 6
was taking up from Box 201 at approximately 8:40 and
as I turned around by the Brooklyn Bridge I observed
a blackened area in Tower number 1.  The engine
officer of 6 Engine, Lieutenant Thomas O'Hagan,
transmitted a second alarm.  We came back to
quarters and I picked up two additional firemen who
were waiting outside the quarters and we arrived at
number 1 World Trade Center at approximately 8:47.
     I immediately decided or I was gonna go into
high pressure.  I kept -- one of the firemen I
picked up, who was an engine chauffeur, with me to
assist in the stretch of the line across West Street
because of the traffic, we hooked up into the
             Butler
BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today is
3
                       Butler
standpipe and I put Engine 6 into high pressure and
I notified Battalion 1 that we were in high
pressure.
     Members of Engine 6, at this time I don't know
where they entered the building.  I heard one
communication regarding a Mayday situation which was
transmitted by Marine 6, that they thought they had
observed a major collapse of Tower number 2.  While
we were operating at this spot, we were there for
approximately one hour before the second plane hit
Tower number 2 and up until that time myself and the
other member of Engine 6 were unaware that a plane
had already hit Tower number 1.  We were under the
impression that there was some kind of a fire up
there, an explosion.  We thought it was like an air
conditioning room within the building.  At no time
did I hear any communications about a plane hitting.
     When a second plane struck Tower number 2, I
observed a large fire ball traveling from south to
north.  At that time I took the other fireman,
Fireman Robert Emans, with me and we proceeded to
run up West Street.  We ran approximately one block
and then we stopped to try to figure out what
exactly had happened and some short time later Tower
4
                       Butler
number 1, with the radio antenna on it, started to
pancake.  At that time we proceeded to run some more
up West Street.  A cloud that ensued from the
building collapse, when it hit the ground picked up
great momentum and it was right behind us all the
way up West Street.  We ran approximately five
blocks until the cloud subsided.
     We gathered our thoughts and at that time we
proceeded over to 7 Engine on Duane Street to see if
we could find out exactly what happened.  Nobody had
any additional information.  We then proceeded from
7 Engine back to our own quarters on Beekman Street.
     At that time, I was in communications with
Deputy Chief Hill of the first division and he
instructed me to be the liaison to Beekman Hospital
to coordinate information about how many members
were being treated, extent of the injury, company
identification.  I did that for approximately four
hours until I was relieved by Chief Oehm of the
first battalion.
     At that point, we rejoined the members of
Engine 6 up at the site on Broadway and Fulton
Street.  The only thing I can say about this whole
incident, it was a complete surprise.  Like I said
5
                       Butler
earlier, at no time did we know that a plane had hit
Tower number 1.  We must -- I must have observed the
tower approximately two minutes after the first
plane had hit and at no time did we know that a
plane had hit.  I heard no communications to
evacuate the building.  I was in communications with
members of Engine 6.  They were on the 27th floor,
proceeding upward.  I heard communications from a
squad company that informed them that it was an
hour's climb to 30.
     The only other thing I have to say is probably
in the future modification should be made about
truck companies responding into incidents like this.
When they can observe from a distance the height of
the building and the location of the fire, they know
they are not going to use their ladders so they
should just drop the members off in front of the
building and reposition their rigs at a safe
distance away from the building to avoid being hit
with debris or falling bodies or as in this case, a
total collapse of the building.
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Thank you,
     John.  It's 12:50 and this concludes the
     interview.
File No. 9110433
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER BRENDAN LOWREY
    Interview Date:  January 9, 2002
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
             Lowrey
BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  This is
2
     Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan of the New
     York City Fire Department Safety Battalion.
     I'm here to interview Brendan Lowrey,
     firefighter 1st of Engine 35, in the quarters
     of Engine 35.
     Q.   Brendan, just tell me what you recall from
September 11.
     A.   Okay.  As we were getting close to the
site, we heard on the department radio, while we
were still in the rig, we started hearing all kinds
of collapse reports, maydays.  Guys were actually on
the department radio saying they were running out of
air.  Then we heard -- finally we heard the
dispatcher say, "Manhattan to command center."
Nothing.  "Manhattan to command center."  Nothing.
Then finally said, "Manhattan to anybody at the
scene."  Again nothing.  So that's when we -- we
really didn't know the whole building had come down.
We thought maybe the top.
     So we got off the rig and we picked up our
stuff and started -- we were on West Street, walking
south.  We were reporting to Vesey and West.  We got
off the rig, we started walking south to the command
3
                       Lowrey
center when a Police Officer stopped us and said,
"hold up, guys.  I have helicopters --" he was on
the cell phone "-- on the cell phone here."  And he
says "When this one comes down, it's coming right
for us."  Meaning coming up West Street.
     So we kind of delayed and, you know, looked at
each other and then a chief -- we got down a little
bit further, I think, and a chief told us, "okay,
guys.  Hang out here for a minute."  And I would say
less -- less than -- I don't know.  It's hard to
tell the time.  It was probably maybe a minute or
two minutes.  Very brief after that the second one
came down.  And we watched it come down and, you
know, it was coming towards us.  We didn't know what
it was.  We didn't know if it was a building.  It
was black.  You know, so we didn't know if it was
heat, the building, whatever.  It was just a huge
black cloud that was chasing us, you know.  So there
we are, we're ducking for cover and the cloud passed
us and then --
     Q.   You ducked behind a car?
     A.   What happened really was I fell down and I
got caught in a stampede.  It was like a doorway or
something on West Street, you know.  So the thing
4
Surprisingly the smoke, the black cleared within a
few minutes and it was just the grey.  So we figured
we have to, you know, go back down there and see
what's going on.  You know, see if we could find
anything.
     So we made our way down West Street and our
particular company got as far as where the walkway
had collapsed by the command center.
     Q.   The north walkway?
     A.   The north walkway, right.  So we did most
of our operating around there.  There were some
pockets of fire.  We actually found a pumper that
was operable.  A lot of them were crushed and
everything.  And we were, you know, shooting some
water -- the pockets of fire were like 8 stories of
a building.  You know, stuff like that.  I threw up
a couple of ladders to those smaller Trade Center --
the black ones.
     Q.   There were some people in the customs
building I think there was?
     A.   Yeah.  So there was stuff like that, you
know.  So we did some searches.  Then they told us
they wanted us to go down in the garage.  Like
                       Lowrey
went passed us.  We waited a couple of minutes.
5
                       Lowrey
the -- there was like an underpass.  I guess it's
like a garage going into underneath.  So we started
walking down there and we only got in about
30 yards.  It was just sealed off so we came back
out.
     You know, we operated down there for a while.
You know, we couldn't -- we weren't doing much but
just, you know.  Okay.  You want to ask me some
questions?
     Q.   No.  Do you have anything else to add?
You can keep going.
     A.   No.  I want to think about it a little
more.  I don't really think we did much more than
that.
     Q.   Okay.
               (Recess taken.)
     Q.   Okay.  Go ahead.
     A.   One other thing.  The only company I
recognized that's sitting in my head was 5 Truck.
It was about 30 yards north of that walkway that was
collapsed and if had its aerial extended into the --
     Q.   The Customs building?
     A.   -- Customs building.  The west side of the
Customs building.  And that had been pretty well
6
                       Lowrey
crushed and the ladder was bent and it looked like
guys had gone up into that area and I didn't see
any.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Okay.  Thank
     you, Brendan.  The time now is 12:02 and this
     concludes the interview.
File No. 9110434
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER KEVIN GORMAN
    Interview Date:  January 9, 2002
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  This is January 9,
     2002.  The time is 2:32 p.m., and this is
     Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan from the safety
     battalion, the Fire Department of City of New
     York, conducting an interview with Firefighter 1st
     Kevin Gorman from Ladder 22 in the quarters of
     Ladder 22.
     Q.   Kevin, just tell us the events as you recall
them on September 11.
     A.   We responded down West Street, parked the
rig, you know, got extra cylinders and stuff, headed
for the buildings.
          We were stopped before the north tower by an
EMS guy, myself and John Malley.  Pointed to jumpers.
So the other guys had gotten a little ahead of us.  He
was telling us get blankets for this jumper and stuff,
but there were plenty of jumpers, so we just passed
him.
          Now we are on West Street, and we hear an
urgent message.  We were between the two towers.  At
that time, I would say we heard an urgent message from
OEM, it said, where OEM informs us that there is a
third plane en route, pull back to the command post.
          So we pulled back to the command post, which
K. GORMAN
3
was the parking garage there, and lined up with
everybody, stood there, waited until we got orders.
The captain -- I think was Mike ^ inaudible -- came up
and ordered all truck companies to one side and then
brought us all to the south tower.
          We headed down underneath the south
pedestrian walkway, stayed under there because of all
the debris, and bodies and stuff, and then one by one
we kind of ran into the hotel, you know, looking up, we
ran into the hotel lobby entrance, or I think it was
the restaurant entrance.
          Wherever it was, it was facing, I think,
south, so it was right near the south pedestrian
bridge.  Ran into there, got into the lobby there,
opened up our jackets, got some water from some of the
people that worked there and stuff, employees, and were
waiting further instructions.
          Lieutenant went to, I believe, Chief
Galvin -- I'm not sure who it was -- got our orders to
go to the 77th Floor and above of the south tower,
headed out of the lobby of the hotel, which in the
hotel there were other firemen.  I don't recall from
what companies.  Not too many guys I recognized, so it
must have been probably Brooklyn companies.
K. GORMAN
4
          I saw Joe Rivelli from 25 truck, and then we
headed out of the hotel lobby, passed Chief Galvin, and
were, as far as we knew, heading for the south tower,
passed another couple of chiefs walking through a
walkway, made a right turn, were heading towards what
we believed to be the south tower.  There are some
discrepancies.  I don't know if you heard.  We are not
sure of exactly if we were in between or -- went
through this other lobby, doorways, walked into that
lobby.
          Everything was dark.  Water was coming down
and everything like that, and then the shit hit the
fan.  Just everything started rumbling, a lot of
noise.  Turned around, went back the way I came, got
probably five steps through the doorway I had just
came.  I don't even know if I got to that, because
there was a walk -- there were bars in front of that
that weren't there any more, got knocked off my feet
and sent -- was buried under some stuff and pushed
across the floor, and after everything stopped dug
ourselves out, put the flashlight on, yelled for each
other and then exited the building.
          I couldn't even say which way.  Towards air.
You couldn't really see anything.
K. GORMAN
5
     Q.   Did your whole company get together or --
     A.   Everybody but the lieutenant ran into each
other, so we all saw each other.  We got underneath by
this glass partition.  One guy went to look for the
lieutenant.  We stood there for a couple of minutes and
then exited the building.
     Q.   Then what happened?  Where did you go from
there?
     A.   Ran outside.  We ended up being right by
where the command post was, went over some wall
outside, a cement wall, went across the street, made
radio transmissions.  I was speaking with Lieutenant
Reilly, my officer.  He was asking me who I saw.
          I said I saw everyone, and since I got out of
the building, I've seen -- and I said the names of the
members that I saw from our company.  I saw Lieutenant
Wall from 47 engine, another fireman from 47 engine
right out on West Street there, and then we stood
there, waited.
          We were talking on the radio.  He was trying
to make sure that -- he was looking for the one member
of 22 that went looking for him, so we were trying to
get radio transmissions with each other, and then we
started heading north towards the rig.
K. GORMAN
6
     Q.   But that was after the first collapse, right?
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   So what happened?
     A.   Now we are by the rig for the second
collapse.
     Q.   On West Street?
     A.   Yeah, and there were guys working on me.  I
had a cut on my head.  Fernando Camacho had a cut on
his head.  Guys were giving us water, wet rags to put
on our head, and we were standing there, and there was
a cop I knew who came by and gave me a drink of water,
and then as he was standing there, he said, "Aviation
just reported that the north tower is leaning."  I
said, "Which way is it leaning?"  He said,"This way."
          So we started to turn around walking.  John
Malley, who was right behind me, I turned around for
him, because he was doing something, either putting his
coat on or something, and as I was looking at him I
heard the explosion, looked up, and saw like three
floors explode, saw the antenna coming down, and turned
around and ran north.
     Q.   About how long would you say it was from when
the police officer told you it was leaning?
     A.   Within 30 seconds.
K. GORMAN
7
     Q.   Did you know if he had a lot of warning or
did he just find out himself?
     A.   It was my personal opinion that because
they -- as I was going a little north towards the rig,
they were coming this way, and they all seemed to be
hustling out of the way, even before he got to me.  So
there was a group of cops that hustled north before he
got to me, so that crossed my mind, why is -- seeing
they were -- you know, I don't know I was aware that
even the south tower collapsed.  I remember seeing,
like, a hole in the hotel, down the middle, but I don't
think I was aware that the south tower had collapsed.
     Q.   Now you went north, and you had the second
collapse.  What happened at this point?  You got
engulfed in smoke again?
     A.   In the ash.  Went into the school that was
there, washed my face off a little bit, washed my eyes
out, came outside, trying to reach the officer again.
          We all grouped up there right by that
pedestrian bridge, Stuyvesant, I think.
     Q.   Yes, by Chambers Street or --
     A.   Yeah.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Thank you very
     much.  The time now is 2:39, and this concludes
File No. 9110435
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        LIEUTENANT GERARD REILLY
    Interview Date:  January 9, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
G. REILLY 2
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  The date is January
     9th, 2002.  The time is 2:15 p.m.   This is
     Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan from the
     Safety Battalion of the Fire Department of
     the City of New York conducting an interview
     with Lieutenant Gerald Reilly from Ladder
     22.
     Q.   Jerry, just tell us the events as you
recall them on September 11th.
     A.   Okay.  We responded on the second fifth
alarm for the south tower.  When we got down
there, we parked behind 25 Truck on West Street.
We walked down and got to the command post.  I
don't know how long we were there, a few minutes.
They had everybody line up behind the officer.
          Oh, before we went to the command post,
I saw Ladder 2, Freddie Ill, in front of the
north tower.  He was having his men run across
one at a time because of the jumpers.  I'm pretty
sure they went in the north tower.
          Then we went to the command post.  They
told us to line up in single file, everybody
behind the officer, and they just sent us in.  We
were supposed to go to south tower.  The last
G. REILLY 3
person I saw there was Captain Fuentes.  He was
the last person outside I saw.
          Then we walked down to Liberty Street
to go under the overpass there because of the
jumpers.  I thought the hotel was the south
tower.  We ran across and went in the hotel
lobby, and we couldn't find the command post.  I
don't know how long we were there, maybe 10
minutes.
          We split up engines and trucks.  I saw
Ladder 24, because that was my old firehouse.  I
knew one guy working there.  I was talking with
them.  I saw Engine 23, Charlie Gaborini.  I
think they went up in the elevators in the hotel.
          Chief Galvin walked in and we went up
for our assignment, and he gave us 75 and above
in the south tower.  I asked him, "Can I go up in
these elevators?"  He said no, we have to go out
to the other building.
          So we went outside, and there was a lot
of debris falling.  We walked around under a
little underpass.  We went across into the lobby.
I thought it was the south tower, and three of
the other guys working with me thought it was the
G. REILLY 4
south tower, and two other guys think we're in
the north tower.
          So we probably were in the building
maybe a minute in the lobby of the tower,
whichever one we were in, and that's when it came
down.  But I thought it was an explosion in the
hotel, because all the debris came down, it was
pitch-black, the whole building shook.
          I worked my way out to West Street.  It
ended up I had about eight civilians with me.  I
made contact with all the men in my company
except for my chauffeur.  I was missing my
chauffeur.  I had no visual contact; I made it on
the handy talky.  I accounted for them all,
except for Steve Klee, the chauffeur.
          So when I was outside, I got the
civilians out to the street.  When the smoke
lifted, the dust and everything, I went back in
looking for Steve, and I couldn't find him.  When
I came out again, I talked with Billy Wall, the
lieutenant in 47 Engine, and he said he saw Steve
Klee.
          I guess we were standing in front of
the north tower when that one collapsed -- oh,
G. REILLY 5
before that, we were on Channel 3 on the radio
frequency.  It ended up that Steve Klee was on
Channel 1.  That's why we couldn't contact him.
          But on Channel 3, a kid from 4 Truck --
it ended up his name was Brennan -- he was giving
a mayday, and nobody was answering him.  I talked
with him, and I told him -- he didn't know where
he was, what building, what floor.
          I told him I thought it was a bomb in
the hotel, because nobody said the building
collapsed.  I told him, "Just try to make your
way down to the street and you can make your way
out."  So I talked to him for a few minutes, and
then we were cut off.  It was stepped on.
          Then I was standing in front of the
north tower when that collapsed.  I heard the
noise, looked up, saw the rumble.  I was right on
the north corner, the north part on West Street.
When it started to fall, Billy Wall from 47
yelled "Run!" to his men.
          We ran.  I don't know how far I got,
maybe half a block, three-quarters of a block.
We dove behind a van.  It was me, him, Jack Ginty
from the union and some supervising dispatcher.
G. REILLY 6
          Then it became pitch-black again.  Me
and Billy Wall were using our mask for the other
two guys.  Then it started to lift, and we worked
our way up West Street.  We got all the way up
north.
          Then I had to account for the men
again, which I eventually did.  I was trying to
let everybody know that now we're all accounted
for, and nobody took a roll call, nobody did
anything.
          Anything else you need?
     Q.   No, that's good.  Thank you, Jerry.
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time now is 2:21,
     and this concludes the interview.
File No. 9110436
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER PETER GIAMMARINO
    Interview Date:  January 9, 2002
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
P. GIAMMARINO
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today is January 9,
     2002.  The time is 12:36, and this is Battalion
     Chief Dennis Kenahan from the safety battalion of
     the Fire Department of City of New York.
          I'm conducting an interview with Peter
     Giammarino, firefighter 2nd, from Engine 58 in the
     quarters of Engine 58.
     Q.   Peter, just tell us what you remember from
September 11.
     A.   Okay, chief.  On our way downtown, I think it
was somewhere in the 40s, we made a turn towards the
west side to go down the west side.  I believe we took
the Westside Highway, and all the cops had their guns
drawn, so we knew -- you know, we knew there was -- we
knew beforehand, actually.  After the second plane hit
the south tower, we kind of knew it wasn't an
accident.
          So when we pulled up with all the rigs, I
think we stopped about -- there was a pedestrian
crossing.  I think it was Vesey Street and West Street,
and we had a couple of extra guys on the rig, so we
grabbed everything that we could:  Roll-ups, extra
bottles, life-saving rope, Halligans, search rope,
everything that we can carry, that we can think of,
3
          And as we approached the towers -- I remember
when we got off the rig, our lieutenant told us to
stick together, so that was our main objective, to get
into the building, if it's going to be a long
operation, to stay together.
          So when we got down towards the towers, we
kind of got separated inadvertently, because there were
jumpers, and they were pretty much landing right in
front of us, and it was hazardous.  That fireman from
216 -- I think it was from 216 -- that got hit by a
jumper, he was right next to us, right close to us, so
when he had gotten hit, somehow as a company, we split
up.
          Between that -- and there was -- the whole
block I think was on fire.  All the parked cars were on
fire.  There were a couple of firemen hooked up right
to a hydrant fighting the car fires.  I don't know what
companies they were from, though.  I didn't notice
that.
          So between -- basically we had to navigate
ourselves into the building without getting hit by
either the debris or jumpers, so we split up as a
P. GIAMMARINO
which was pretty much everything, all the CFRD
equipment.
P. GIAMMARINO
4
company.  So half of us went in and half of us remained
outside, and then eventually we were able to get into
the lobby of the Marriott.
          We were there just a few minutes.  I mean,
when we first walked in, I saw some guys from 131
truck.  I rotated through there, so I knew them, and
one of the guys said to me that he had just heard that
the Pentagon was bombed, be careful up there.
          So we went into the lobby just a few feet
towards the elevator banks, and our lieutenant said
"Stand fast, open up your coats, cool off a few
minutes, and I'm going to go see what we gotta do."
          And it seemed like maybe it was a minute.  It
wasn't that long at all, and we heard this sound that
kind of sounded like an airplane.  We thought it was
another airplane hitting the towers.  That's exactly
what it sounded like, you know, and it gradually got
louder.  And someone yelled, "It's coming towards the
windows," like the front of the Marriott that might
have been like an atrium or something like that.
          So we basically -- we all ran for cover
somewhere where we could, you know, just wherever we
ended up.  There was nowhere to go really.  Then it got
black, and there was a lot of wind, and stuff flying
P. GIAMMARINO
5
all over, and then when everything stopped, we were
trapped in there, and we had to negotiate our way out,
so I was with two other guys from my company, and maybe
one or two other firemen.  I don't know what company
they were from, though, and we found our way out, and
we let some civilians out, and we heard a radio
transmission from my lieutenant.  I didn't have the
radio that day.
     Q.   Lieutenant Nagel?
     A.   Lieutenant Nagel.  He had made a radio
transmission.  He was giving a role call.  He wanted to
know where we were and who was with us.  So it didn't
sound like he was trapped or anything like that.
          We thought -- the three of us thought that
the rest of our company was out of the building, so we
lost all radio transmissions, and then there was a
Mayday given, so we didn't want to jump on the radio on
top of that.
          I think it was Fireman Brennan from 4 truck.
He was saying that he was knocked unconscious, and he
had no idea where he was.  He gave that two or three
times.  He gave his name and his company and what had
happened to him, and I later learned that he was in the
lobby of the Marriott, and Lieutenant Nagel had
P. GIAMMARINO
6
mentioned to the guys in the lobby that he was like 10
feet from him, so they were in that same area where the
elevator banks were.
          We also had a couple of chiefs from the 12th
battalion in that area, too, Chief Marchbanks and
Scheffold.
          So after the south tower had come down, me
and two other guys from the company had gotten out.
Ansbro and Weber, and we were just trying to regroup.
We didn't even know what had happened.  I didn't even
think the tower had come down, because when you look up
at them, at a certain angle, one hides behind the
other.  Like at a certain angle, you don't realize that
there's two there.  That is what I thought I was
looking at.  I had no idea that it had come down, so I
just couldn't focus at that time, you know.  I couldn't
really comprehend what had happened.
          So somehow or another, we had got away from
the debris field a little bit, and there were injured
civilians and police, and we started assisting them,
and then before you knew it, the other tower, the north
tower, had come down or started -- it came down, and so
then I realized really what had happened with the south
tower.
P. GIAMMARINO
7
     Q.   Where were you when the north tower came
down?
     A.   When the north tower came down, we were by --
there were some boat slips.  We were in that area, so
when the north tower came down, we were over there, and
just a few minutes later Mike Fitzpatrick, who was our
chauffeur that day, he came.  He hurt his leg, so he
was like walking with a limp or he was favoring that
one leg, and he had told us that we were missing
Lieutenant Nagel and David McGovern.
          At that time, we thought David was missing,
because he was separated from all of us.  I'm not sure
when he got out after the north tower or the south
tower came down, but there were three guys from 58
after the south tower that came down that were in the
lobby in the Marriott trying to free Lieutenant Nagel,
because he was trapped.  He was in a tight spot, but he
was okay, and they were working with 122 truck, and
then another few minutes later the other members from
the company came out, and we regrouped, and we went
back into the lobby of the Marriott again, because we
knew where our lieutenant was, so we were hoping that
he was still in that void where he was.
          So we were in there just for a few minutes
P. GIAMMARINO
8
maybe and the chiefs pulled us out.  They told us we
had to get out, so we got out, and then later on we
went back in again, and they pulled us out once more,
and that was it.  They said we lost radio
transmissions, and we couldn't risk any members to go
in there at that point, because the Marriott was
leaning.
          It turns out that it leaned for awhile until
they knocked it down, but at that point, it was
leaning, and they didn't want to put us in that risk of
coming down on us.
          That's basically it.  Do you need anything
after that?
     Q.   No, that's fine.
     A.   We did actually -- we heard that 288 -- there
were some members from 58 that saw Squad 288.
          When we were in the street with the fireman
from 216 that had gotten hit, the other half of the
company went in, and they had seen 288 in the lobby,
and one of those guys was on the telephone, and I mean
that -- I didn't see that.  That's what they had told
me, so he was calling someone before they went up
whatever, and they were just a couple of minutes before
us, ahead of us, and I think also 279 might have been
P. GIAMMARINO
9
just a few minutes ahead of us also, Engine 279.
     Q.   You think they went into the south tower or
they were all in the lobby?
     A.   Well, I had spoken to guys from 131 truck,
and they had told me that -- I don't know.  I think
they're dispatched differently to the trade center, but
for some reason I think they were together in the
lobby, and the engine 279 had just went ahead.
          They were just ahead of the truck, but I
didn't see 279.  I did see 131, though.  I don't know.
I really don't know where.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  That's fine, Pete.
          Thank you.  The time now is 12:48, and this
     concludes the interview.
File No. 9110437
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        CHEVALO WILSON-DeBRIANO
   Interview Date:  January 11, 2002
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
C.WILSON-DeBRIANO
2
          LIEUTENANT DUN:  Today is January 11th,
2002.  The time is 0615 hours.  My name is Richard Dun
working for the New York City Fire Department.  I'm
conducting an interview with the following individual:
     Q.   Please state your name.
     A.   Chevalo Wilson-DeBriano.
     Q.   And your rank?
     A.   Paramedic.
     Q.   Where is your location of work?
     A.   Battalion 50.
     Q.   In your own words, just tell us what happened
on the day of September 11th.
     A.   I was here.  I was extra personnel, so I
didn't have a partner.  I was instructed by the -- or
actually I saw it in the lounge, an incident happened,
the World Trade Center, fire, listen on Citywide
radio.  They said it was a plane hit.  They put MERV 4
on standby.  I was told by the supervisor to stand by,
if MERV 4 was to roll, I would have to go on with the
MERV.  The second plane hit and then we were told to
roll, go to Battalion 46 in Elmhurst, Queens, and stand
by there.
          We ended up going over to Battalion 46.  We
stood by momentarily.  Then we were told to roll.  We
C.WILSON-DeBRIANO
3
continued from there down Queens Boulevard.  We had a
view of the burning World Trade Centers.  When we
crossed the 59th Street bridge, we heard over the radio
people screaming that there was a building collapse.
We crossed Manhattan, went down the west side.  We went
down past Vesey Street, past the pedestrian bridge.  We
stopped the MERV.  There was a lot of smoke.  We
started helping a few injured firefighters who came on
the MERV van for treatment.
          Then we felt a rumble.  My partner, who was
the driver, told me that he thinks there's another
collapse, so we have to egress by foot and leave the
vehicle, and it was a rapid, running egress from the
area with other police officers, firefighters and
civilians to avoid the debris and dust cloud.
     Q.   Do you know exactly where you left the
vehicle, where the vehicle was parked?
     A.   Yes.  Approximately, looking at this thing, I
believe it was beside 6 World Trade Center.  Yes.  So a
little south of Vesey Street on the West Side Highway.
Q. Okay.
     A.   We continued.  I ended up walking up to
Chelsea Piers.  Then I walked back down to try to find
my partner.  I didn't find him for hours, but he was
C.WILSON-DeBRIANO
4
okay.  The vehicle was in bad shape as far as dust.  It
had to be cleaned off.  Then we moved the MERV van over
to another location.  I'm just trying to remember the
actual street.
     Q.   When you first arrived, did you see a lot of
debris, a lot of chaos?
     A.   Yes, a lot of chaos, a lot of smoke.  You
couldn't really see.
     Q.   Was there a lot of debris on the ground or
engine parts, body parts?
     A.   No, no, I didn't see any of that.  I didn't
see any of that, no.  We were on the West Side Highway,
so I think we were still a distance from that.
     Q.   All right.  So after the first collapse, you
relocated?
     A.   Well, no.  The first collapse had already
occurred.
     Q.   So you were there for the second collapse?
     A.   The second collapse, yes.
     Q.   Then after the second collapse, you relocated
down to --
     A.   Well, as I was saying, when we were crossing
the 59th Street bridge, that's when the first collapse
occurred.  So by the time then we got into Manhattan,
C.WILSON-DeBRIANO
5
we went to the West Side Highway and we stopped the
van, we stopped the MERV van, and we started treating
some firefighters.  Then the second collapse happened.
     Q.   Okay.  Then you egressed.
     A.   Then we had to egress by foot.
     Q.   How long after did you go back to your
vehicle?
     A.   That took a while.  I believe it took around
three hours.  Yes, around three hours to get back
there.
     Q.   Did you see any chiefs that you recognized
who were in the plaza or wherever you were?
     A.   In that immediate area, no.
     Q.   No officers?
     A.   No, I didn't see it.  No.  Other than when I
walked up and walked to Chelsea Piers.  That's the only
time I really saw EMS people.  I only saw vehicles
passing.
     Q.   Were they parked and covered with debris or
were they voluntaries just lining up to go in?
A. At Chelsea Piers?
Q. On the walk up.
A. OnmywalkupI mainly just saw some
dust-covered vehicles but mainly just emergency
C.WILSON-DeBRIANO
6
vehicles going in and leaving the area.
     Q.   Then what did you do after you got to Chelsea
Piers?
     A.   I got to Chelsea Piers.  They were just
lining up.  It seemed like there was a lot of confusion
there.  But I couldn't find my driver.  I had to check
all around to see if the driver was there and he wasn't
there, so I started going back, I started walking back
to the area.
     Q.   You left the MERV down there?
     A.   Yes.  The MERV was left down by Vesey Street,
yes.
     Q.   So you walked.  Did you ever find your
partner that day?
     A.   I did find him.  He said he just ran a
different direction.  We had got split up and I did
find him hours later.
     Q.   Did you triage people at Chelsea or did you
do any work at Chelsea?
     A.   At Chelsea, no.  They were just lined up
there.
     Q.   So that was the end of the day?
     A.   No.  We went back.  We went to the MERV van.
It had a lot of dust on it, but the driver had
C.WILSON-DeBRIANO
7
relocated it to another location.  Man, if I could just
remember the street.  It was the street that JFK Jr.
lived on.
Q. Okay.
     A.   But that street, we were there, and then from
there, from that location, then we started -- we set up
for triage there and we were pretty much there most of
the day, then, most of the day, setting up for triage,
and that's where we ended up viewing the collapse of 7
World Trade Center, which was another time when we
ended up having to egress a little bit.
     Q.   So about what time did you end the day?
     A.   The day was ended -- I worked 23 1/2 hours
straight.  So, if I started at 7:00, it ended like at
6:00 in the morning by the time we got back.
          LIEUTENANT DUN:  That concludes the interview
with Chevalo.  Thank you very much for your time.
a
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         CAPTAIN JOSEPH RIVERA
   Interview Date:  January 14, 2001
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
File No. 9110438
J. RIVERA 2
          MR. McCOURT:  The date is January 14th,
     2002.  My name is Tom McCourt, investigator
     for the New York City Fire Department.  We
     are currently at the World Trade Center
     command post.  Being interviewed is Captain
     Joseph Rivera from Division 4.
          Captain Rivera, would you identify
     yourself, please.
          CAPTAIN RIVERA:  Captain Rivera, shield
     number 9815 of the Division 4, Queens
     division.  I'm the duty captain assigned
     there.
     Q.   Captain, could you please tell me the
events that transpired from your perspective on
September 11th, 2001?
     A.   What actually transpired -- in fact,
I'll start from the beginning.  On September 11th
was my first day assigned to the borough of
Queens.  I was transferred from the borough of
the Bronx.  I was to report to their division
office at 0800 hours in the morning, which I did.
          While there I was awaiting the arrival
of Chief Carrasquillo to have a one-on-one with
him, which is when the incident occurred.  He
J. RIVERA 3
called me up and told me that he was on his way
in and that we would meet downstairs and head
into the World Trade Center incident.
          We met downstairs, got into his
vehicle.  We responded, he, myself, his aide and
an EMT.  I have no recollection of the name.
     Q.   Do you remember who his aide was?
     A.   His aide was Sal San Sangeniti was his
last name.  I don't remember who the EMT was.
          We were in route to Manhattan.  We
exited the Midtown Tunnel.  When we exited the
Midtown Tunnel, the second plane had already hit.
We arrived there roughly about 9:30 in the
morning.
          When we got there, we left the car on
West Street down by I believe it was Rector.  I'm
not sure.  I think it was Rector.  And we walked
our way up to where the command post was, which
was opposite building number two, Two World Trade
Center.
     Q.   What was the action going around at
that location at that time?  What was the
activity?
     A.   It was total mayhem.  There were people
J. RIVERA 4
running all over the place.  There were body
parts on the floor that we noticed.  There was
rubble.  There was just total chaos.
          As we were walking up to the command
post, we were trying to get a gist of was going
on.  When we finally got to the command post, we
met with Chief Gombo, Captain Sickles and
Lieutenant Moore, who were already there along
with other fire officials and some firefighters.
This wasn't inside the building; this was across
the street on West Street.
Q. West and --
     A.   West -- I believe it was between
Liberty and Vesey.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   On the other side of the street.
          While there, we were looking up at the
fire and we heard a loud rumble; and when we
looked up, that was the start of the collapse.
When the building collapsed, ironically we had a
building behind us that had an underground
garage, and we all ran into that underground
garage.  In that underground garage we were
trapped for approximately 10 to 15 minutes.
J. RIVERA 5
          There were a number of injuries, minor
injuries.  A lot of us were breathing in a lot of
that powder, whatever you want to call it.
Anyway, we managed to get out of there.  A
firefighter found a stairwell that brought us up
about two and a half stories.
          We managed to go up two and a half
stories, come up out of the building from the
rear and managed to go around up towards -- what
is this over here?  Up towards North End, running
down toward North End to where we established a
command post on Chambers and West.
          Before that we also got caught in the
second collapse.  While we were running, we were
running and trying to find cover in some of the
surrounding buildings.  Every time we got close
to one of the buildings, they were telling us
there was a gas leak and we should get away from
that building.
          Chief Carrasquillo was under the
impression that we may have left some people
behind, so we went back to make sure that
everybody was accounted for.
     Q.   After the second collapse?
J. RIVERA 6
     A.   After the first collapse.
     Q.   After the first collapse.
     A.   So when we went back, making sure that
everybody was accounted for, we got caught in the
second collapse, but we managed to get out of
that right away.
          What we did is we ran towards the water
around to North Street and up towards Chambers
and West, which was where the command post was
established.  While there I took command of the
MERV and all of the volunteers that were coming,
hospital staff, doctors, nurses, et cetera.
     Q.   When you went back to check for the
missing people, did you find everybody that was
missing?
     A.   Everybody that was with us was
accounted for.  That was Chief Carrasquillo,
chief's aide Sal San Sangeniti, Chief Gombo,
Captain Sickles, Lieutenant Moore.
     Q.   Anybody injured at that point?
     A.   Lieutenant Terranova.
          Well, the one that was injured was
Lieutenant Moore.  All the rest were overcome by
this powder, this thing that we were breathing.
J. RIVERA 7
          Then from there we were on for a good
25, 26 hours, the regular operation.
     Q.   Right.  You stayed there the whole --
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   Until the next day?
     A.   Yeah.  We were able to go home and come
back the next day and start it all over again.
          I wasn't injured.  I breathed in a lot
of the stuff.  Luckily I wasn't injured.
          I don't know what to say.  I think we
were all traumatized.  I think the only real
injury that I remember was Lieutenant Moore.
     Q.   What was the extent of his injuries?
     A.   I think it was a leg injury.  He hasn't
been back on duty, but I think it was a leg
injury.
     Q.   Is there anything else that you can add
or you might want to add to it?
     A.   No.  So many things happened.  After we
left the building that we were trapped in, a
number of things had happened.  There was a
building there that had senior citizens
supposedly trapped in the basement, so we were
trying to get them evacuated.  Then they told us
J. RIVERA 8
not to, that it was probably safer to keep them
in the basement because of all of the dust in the
air.
          Then there were other people that would
run to us with minor injuries, cuts and bruises
and stuff.  We were trying to give aid when we
were in route to -- actually running for our
lives, running away from the site to the command
post.
     Q.   Did you experience any radio problems
or communication problems or anything like that
at all?
     A.   I think everybody experienced radio
problems.  We were trying the contact each other
to make sure everybody was accounted for.  We
couldn't get across.  Too many people on the
radio.  The radio traffic was horrendous.
     Q.   All right.  There's nothing else you
can add --
     A.   No, that's it.  A half hour felt like
30 days.  But that's it.  That's all I can think
of now.
     Q.   Okay, Captain.  Thank you very much.
          MR. McCOURT:  The time is 557 hours.
     That concludes this interview.
File No. 9110439
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER STEPHEN VIOLA
   Interview Date:  January 10, 2002
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today's January
     10, 2002.  The time is 1230 hours, and this is
     Battalion Chief Frank Congiusta of the New York
     City Fire Department.  I'm conducting an interview
     with the following individual.
          Please state your name.
          FIREFIGHTER VIOLA:  Steve Viola, firefighter
     2nd Grade, Engine 47.
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Of the Fire
     Department of the City of New York, at the
     quarters of Engine 47, regarding the events of
     September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Okay, Steve.
     A.   We parked about three blocks up from the
towers, and we walked down underneath the pedestrian
bridge.  It took us a little while to get across into
the hotel because of the debris coming down, but we
ended up getting in there, and the chief, the deputy
chief in there, had all the engine companies go to the
left, all the truck companies go to the right, and he
brought all the officers over to him and told them
their particular assignment and told us to switch to
Channel 3.  I remember that.
          I think it was the security guy, a guy that
2
S. VIOLA
3
worked in one of the towers, took us.  He said there
was an elevator working, and he took us into the north
tower, and there was one elevator out of 6 in the bank
working.
          22 engine went up before us.  13 truck went
up before us, and then one of our guys -- one of the
guys from 13 truck.  Our guy went in with 13 truck, and
he was coming down with the guy from 13 truck to bring
the elevator to us, and when he was either going up or
coming down the elevator, that's when the south tower
collapsed, and it sounded like a bunch of explosions.
          You heard like loud booms, but I guess it was
all just stuff coming down, and then we got covered
with rubble and dust, and I thought we'd actually
fallen through the floor into like the PATH tubes,
because it was so dark you couldn't see anything, and
from there it was a little hazy from there on, but I
remember our lieutenant trying to take us back out
through the Marriott the way we came, but that was --
we couldn't go through that way, and we ended up coming
out through -- I guess it was the base of the north
tower out onto West Street, and ended up -- me and
another guy put on one of the ambulances, and we were
just waiting to leave on the ambulance.
S. VIOLA
4
          We were in there -- I don't know how long we
were in there.  For awhile, because one guy, they
thought he had a broken neck, and they actually went
back, because one of our guys was still in the
elevator, so they went back to see if they could get
him out, and then while we were in the ambulance, the
driver came out and said, "Get out and run to the
river," because that's when the out tower was coming
down.
          And we ended up getting down to the water,
right behind -- I think it was a school building, and
after the big dust cloud passed over, we made our way
up West Street, like six, seven, eight blocks, and
another ambulance came and picked us up.  How far up
that was, I'm not sure.
     Q.   Is there anything else you want to say?
     A.   No, that's basically it.  We never really got
to go up, so I never really got to do anything.
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  This concludes
     the interview.  It's approximately 12:37.
          Thank you for your cooperation, Steve.  I
     appreciate it.
          THE WITNESS:  You're welcome, chief.
File No. 9110440
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         FIREFIGHTER JOHN DRUMM
   Interview Date:  January 10, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
J. DRUMM 2
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today's date is
     January 10, 2002.  The time is 1345 hours.
     This is Battalion Chief Frank Congiusta of
     the Safety Battalion of the New York City
     Fire Department.  I'm conducting an
     interview with the following individual.
          Please state your name.
          FIREFIGHTER DRUMM:  Firefighter John
     Drumm.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Assigned to Ladder 16
     of the Fire Department of the City of New
     York, at the quarters of Ladder 16,
     regarding the events of September 11th,
     2001.
     Q.   John, if you can just tell in your own
words what happened that day.
     A.   The first time I found out about the
whole incident, we were in the kitchen of the
firehouse when someone came in and told us they
just had heard a plane crashed into the twin
towers.  We went out to the house watch from the
kitchen, listened to the department radio.  About
a minute after getting into house watch, Engine
39, which I was assigned on that day to -- I was
J. DRUMM 3
assigned to work in Engine 39 on September 11th.
About a minute after I went out of the house
watch, Engine 39 got sent on the run.
     Q.   Let me just stop a second.  Okay.  Go
ahead, just from where you were.
     A.   39 got the run, like I said, a minute
after walking in the house watch.
          Two of us got into the back step of 39
and two other members drove down the high-rise
rig, high-rise number 2, and we made our way
downtown.  While we were on our way down, we
heard over the department radio in the rig that
the second tower had also now been hit by a
plane.
          After heading downtown on Second
Avenue, we came across on Houston.  After we were
coming across to the west side of Manhattan on
Houston, looking southbound along the major
avenues, I could see both towers --
          (Interruption.)
     A.   As I was saying, when 39 was making
their way downtown, we had used Houston Street to
go across to the west side.  And as we passed
other major avenues, you could have a clear view
J. DRUMM 4
downtown.  I was able to see both the north tower
and the south tower, both in flames and plumes of
smoke over them.
          We came down the West Side Highway.  We
parked the rigs just south of Vesey Street, on
West Street we parked.  As we were getting out of
the rigs, there was a chief that was instructing
the chauffeur of 39 and the driver of the
high-rise to move them further down West Street,
more in the front of the north tower.
          I'm not too sure, after hearing the
chief say that, how the rigs were moved, being a
member of the inside.  We just grabbed our
rollups and headed for the building.
          We headed towards the north tower.  We
were assigned on the run to report to the north
tower.  We made our way into the building through
the northwest corner of the building.  The
windows on the first floor were all broken out,
so we didn't even go down to the doorway.  We
just went into the corner of the building, which
all the glass was blown out, and used that way to
get into the building.
          As we were approaching the building, we
J. DRUMM 5
had walked underneath the passenger bridge that's
just south of Vesey and hugged the wall, because
on our way into the building there was a lot of
debris falling and, as everybody knows, there
were also people jumping.  On our way in, we were
able to see a few of those people.  So we were
hugging the wall of the building just on the
northwest corner of tower one to avoid the
debris.
          We made our way into the lobby of the
north tower, where we saw a command post being
assembled and a battalion chief or a battalion
aide had seen us coming in, and he instructed us,
39 Engine, to team up with 65 Engine, which we
did.  He also instructed us to use the B
stairwell to ascend.  We were instructed just
keep climbing until you get upstairs to where you
can help other companies set up your lines,
stretch and go into operation.
          We made our way up the stairs from
there, the B stairwell.  The highest point we
climbed was the 31st floor.
     Q.   Wow.
     A.   As everybody knows, there was civilians
J. DRUMM 6
coming down at the same time on our way up.
There was one behind the other on their right of
the staircase, and we stayed towards the center
of the staircase, the firemen, on our right, the
center of the staircase, and made our way up.
          We met some very nice people on the way
up.  They offered the firemen water and actually
I want to put that in the record because it was a
nice thing.  One civilian offered to carry my
rollup for a while at one point.  I said, "Thank
you very much, sir, but I'll get it."
          We helped a few civilians get down a
little bit.  Most of the civilians we passed were
able to walk on their own.  A few civilians I met
on the way up were actually being helped by
civilians too.  A woman who was a burn victim,
one of the firemen helped clear the stairway at
that time because they were carrying her and it
took a larger width of the stairwell.  So we
cleared all the civilians out of the way for
that, just made sure the civilians stayed in
order, which they did.  They were very orderly.
          When we got to the 31st floor, at that
point -- we ascended as fast as we could, but
J. DRUMM 7
there were other firemen in front of us and
slowly but surely making our way up.  When we got
to the 31st floor, Lieutenant McGlynn, who was
the officer of Engine 39 that day, had instructed
us to stand by on the 31st floor where he was
going to wait for further instruction or try to
hook up with a nearby chief.
          I'm not too sure exactly what he was
trying to find out everything.  But he was
probably maybe seeing if they wanted to start
stretching lines from a lower standpipe.  But he
had told us just to stand by while he waited to
talk to a chief.
          While on the 31st floor, as I said, we
were told to stand by by Lieutenant McGlynn, our
officer for the day, waiting for further
instruction.  As we were waiting, we waited in
the hallway on the 31st floor out of the
stairwell to stay out of the crowd of civilians
and all, not to clog up the stairwell.  We waited
for our instructions in the hallway of the 31st
floor.
          We also first went in there to make
sure also -- when we were about 12 floors below
J. DRUMM 8
that there was a transmission that there was
several members and police officers on the 31st
floor that had chest pains and difficulty
breathing.  Being an engine company, we went in
there to see if there was any CRFD work we could
do on the members.
          As we went into the stairwell, also
waiting for instructions to be given to
Lieutenant McGlynn, everybody was being taken
care of on the 31st floor, all members that had
chest pains and difficulty breathing.  Someone
had already gotten to them and was giving them
oxygen.
          So besides making sure everyone was
okay, we were waiting there.  Maybe we were on
the 31st hallway for approximately five minutes
when all of a sudden a large crashing,
thundering, roaring -- it's almost impossible to
really explain with those words, but it was so
much more noise than I could ever really explain
clearly.
          The members that were nearby, we all
went and got down on our hands and knees on the
floor, not knowing what this was, walls, floor.
J. DRUMM 9
I had no idea.  I had no idea what was happening
until I got out of the building later in the day
I had found out what happened.  Later in the day
I found out what was going on when all of us were
on the floor and all that roaring was going on
was the south tower collapsing.
          While on the 31st floor and still in
the building, I didn't know that.  As I said, I
didn't know the south tower came down until I was
out of the building and away from the collapse.
          But while we were on the 31st floor,
everyone was down.  Everybody was on their hands
and knees.  It was almost confirmed by -- it made
me feel comfortable of not knowing what it was
that one fireman was standing up -- I'm not too
sure if he was a rescue member.  I think I
remember seeing a blue patch on his helmet.  I'm
not positive of the number.  I think it was a
blue batch on his helmet, and I think it was a
rescue member.
          He was telling all the members in the
hallway, maybe about 20 or 30 firefighters in the
hallway at the time, to relax and calm down, that
it was only the skin of the building.  I remember
J. DRUMM 10
that clearly, this firefighter saying that.  That
relaxed me a little bit, not that I probably even
thought that it was the south tower collapsing or
what it was, but it was just something very
disturbing.
          In a way he comforted me a little bit.
But as I found out later, it was not just the
skin of the building coming down; it was the
south tower.
          After the noise had stopped, there was
a transmission on the radio that I had.  I was in
a position on 39 control that day, so I had a
radio so I could hear it myself on my radio.
There was a transmission that I'm guessing was
repeated about five times:  "Imminent collapse,
imminent collapse of the north tower.  Immediate
evacuation."  At least five times I heard that.
     Q.   A lot of guys didn't get that.  That's
good that you got it.
     A.   Yeah.  Now I don't know how everything
happened with -- how the radios were with the
members on the upper floors, but on the 31st
floor I was able to hear that they wanted the
north tower to be evacuated.
J. DRUMM 11
          We were waiting for the officer's order
before taking up and start walking, maybe a
couple minutes past where he was confirming,
listening for further transmissions or talking to
other officers that were in the area.  He wasn't
sure that's what they wanted us to do.
          We started to descend the building at
that time and went right back into the B
stairwell and descended down all the way to the
lobby in the B stairwell.
          On our way down it was a lot clearer,
the stairwell, of civilians.  On the way up it
was one behind the other order -- orderly but one
behind the other of civilians on the way down the
staircase.  After standing on the 31st floor and
the collapse of the south tower happening and
making our way back into the stairwell, there was
a lot less civilians.  Most of the civilians
hopefully at that point were already down.  But
there were still a few we ran into on the way
down.
          One woman we assisted.  She was having
trouble breathing.  The only air we had left was
a cylinder.  One of the members had a cylinder
J. DRUMM 12
and I helped to purge it to let the woman get a
hit off our mask.  So we gave her the mask.  She
was able to walk after that, and she was with two
civilian men that were going to stay with her the
rest of the way down.
          On the way down we also ran into --
most firemen that we saw were heading down the
staircase at this time, but approximately the
20th floor I remember running into Captain Ill of
Ladder 2 and Officer McGlynn, my officer for the
day, talked to him a little bit, asking him if he
had heard the transmission.
          Being right next to Lieutenant McGlynn,
I was able to hear that conversation.  Captain
Ill said yes, he did hear it, and he was just
making sure that everybody was out before he was
heading down.
          With McGlynn knowing that he heard the
transmission, we continued to climb down.  As we
got down to the lower floors, we walked a little
bit slower.  It was very congested with firemen
down at the bottom of the staircase making our
way out.  But eventually we got down to the
lobby.
J. DRUMM 13
          Lieutenant McGlynn was leading.  I
followed him.  We walked back in the same
direction out of the stairwell B, which is
between the elevator bank, back to West Street.
So we were heading to the exact spot where we
came into the building, which was the northwest
corner of the building.
          Lieutenant McGlynn came to a stop, I'm
assuming this was to check that all his members
were out of the stairwell.  I looked at
Lieutenant McGlynn on my way past him, thought I
made eye contact with him.  He actually didn't
see me.
          All the firemen in front of me were
still walking, so I followed them out the
northwest corner of the building, which wasn't
even a doorway, just all the glass on the lobby
floor had been blown out.  So it was a clear
passage through there, the exact same corner of
the building we came in.
          We hugged the exact same wall of the
building that's just north of the north tower.
I'm not too sure what that is, whatever that
building is.  Building five?
J. DRUMM 14
     Q.   The customs building.
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   I think that's building six, but it's
the customs building.
     A.   Building six.  It's the building that's
on the corner of Vesey and West.
     Q.   Yeah, right.
     A.   There's a big sidewalk in front of the
north tower, but I just hugged the wall of that
for the same reasoning --
     Q.   So it would be this building.
     A.   Yeah, we came out of this northwest
corner of the north tower, and this was right
along the sidewalk.  So we just hugged this wall
of the U.S. --
     Q.   Customs building.
     A.   -- customs building.  And when you
follow this wall back to the West Side Highway to
the street, it's right where the passenger bridge
is.
          So when I got to the passenger bridge,
I was probably walking at a normal pace, not
running, all the way to that passenger bridge
from the building.  And as I approached the
J. DRUMM 15
passenger bridge and just got underneath it,
there were two firemen that were standing there,
looking back up toward the building.
          As I approached them, all of a sudden I
heard a bunch of firemen, including these two
guys I saw, start yelling, "Get out of the way!
Go, go, go!  Don't look back!  Don't look back!
The building's coming down!"
          Of course like anybody else, instinct
takes over and I look back.  As I was underneath
this passenger bridge, I can see the north tower
at the top starting to come down.  With that and
everybody yelling just go, whoever I listened
to -- I guess I listened to -- one fireman said,
"Let's go north on West Street."
          So right from the passenger bridge I
kept going back, and why I was going that way too
was you go back to your rig after a job or
whatever.  That's where our rigs were when we
left them was Vesey and West.  So I was heading
that way anyway.  Thank God he also said north
and I continued on West.
          As soon as he said that, I looked, saw
the building come down, and just took off running
J. DRUMM 16
north on West Street.  I ran as far up as
Stuyvesant High School.  About just north of
Vesey Street is I guess when the building was
very close -- at the ground, and now the dust
cloud was starting to push up West Street.
          Just north of West Street I guess I
started seeing the dust cloud.  One fireman I saw
in the middle of the street continued holding
cylinders, but laying on the top of the cylinders
was a mask.  So he probably assumed that maybe
the whole thing had a mask in it, complete mask.
          He said, "Run, grab a mask!"  I ran
over to the container.  He had grabbed a mask,
but the only thing else that was left in the
container was --
Q. Cylinder?
     A.   A cylinder.  I just kept running.  But
just after that container, which was like at the
corner of Vesey, the smoke just came right over
us.  So from Vesey Street until Stuyvesant High
School, we were searching through this dust
cloud.
          I had left my mask up on the 31st
floor.  When they said to evacuate, they just
J. DRUMM 17
said drop everything.  So I dropped my mask,
dropped my rollups, and just said let's get out
of the building.  So I had no mask when this dust
cloud came.  So I used my hood as some type of
vent to keep some of the stuff from going in my
lungs.
          Probably from Vesey all the way to
Stuyvesant High School I was in the dust cloud,
actually searching my way up West Street.  I was
still thinking of training in proby school, you
know, hug the walls until you find a window
frame.
          I found the curb and a parked car.
Thank God the car was faced the right direction,
and I was using the front end as the direction to
point north.  I kept walking that way, because I
could not see anything.  All I could hear was
everyone screaming and yelling.
          There were one or two firemen that had
tripped on the way up.  I picked them up.  They
weren't hurt.  They just tripped over something
probably on the street.  I picked them up and
kept going.
          But eventually when I got to about
J. DRUMM 18
Stuyvesant High School, I was able to see through
the dust cloud.  I made my way inside Stuyvesant
High School where I was coughing for a little
while.  I don't know if I was there maybe half an
hour, clearing my mouth out with some water.
Some of the teachers were bringing water over to
me, and the security guards were helping out.
          As I got my senses back together and
all and had help from people to strip off my gear
and cool off, I guess, and civilians were helping
me out.  Finally -- I don't know how long it was,
maybe half an hour -- I stopped coughing and was
able to gain my senses and feel myself and
everything was all right.  I started thinking.
          I didn't know at the time but I found
out later in the day that when I left the north
tower in the lobby I had thought my officer had
seen me, Lieutenant McGlynn, and he hadn't seen
me.  When I continued out of the building, the
other members of Engine 39 made their way out of
the staircase and saw Lieutenant McGlynn.
Lieutenant McGlynn asked them if they had seen
Drumm.  That's my last name.  They all said, "No,
I didn't see him."  "Did you see him?"  "No, I
J. DRUMM 19
didn't see him."
          I would never have known if they came
out.  Thank God all four of them are alive.  But
they had gone back into the staircase to search
for me --
Q. Oh, Jesus.
     A.   -- not knowing that I came out of the
building.  To find out more -- I believe they've
been interviewed too and it's on the record.  But
I think they made it somewhere, they told me,
maybe around to the fifth floor and thank God
that the staircase was able to withstand the
weight that it stood.
          They had their trauma and I don't want
to tell you a story that they'll tell their own
if they haven't all right.  But they had an
ordeal.  If they didn't come out, I probably
would have never known that they had gone back in
for me.  But thank God they're alive.  That means
a lot to me that they had gone back in for me.
It means a lot more than I know that they're
still alive.
          I think that I can go on with the story
in detail, so I think that's pretty much my
J. DRUMM 20
experience from getting the run at the firehouse
to getting out of the building.  I guess after
getting out of the building and getting my senses
back together at Stuyvesant High School, I geared
back up and started heading back down.  I don't
know if my radio was turned down or turned off.
I wasn't listening to the radio when I was in the
high school coughing.
          I made my way back out to the street.
The radio was still working.  I turned it on or
it was on.  I started listening to the radio as
to what the heck was going on.  I knew the north
tower had come down, but not until really I was
done running at Stuyvesant High School had I
found out that the south tower was the noise I
had heard when we were still on the 31st floor.
That's when I realized that both buildings were
down was after I came back out into the street
from Stuyvesant High School.
          Over the radio I was hearing the
chauffeur of 39, Arthur Meyers, trying to raise
Engine 39.  I heard that message from him several
times.  Eventually I was able to get through the
radio.  The radio was of course very busy.
J. DRUMM 21
Eventually I was able to just get in a couple words with him. I knew who it was. He asked my location. I told him who I was and whereIwas. Wemetupat--Idon'tknowifit was Vesey or -- what's the next one up?
Q. Barclay.
     A.   Yeah, somewhere near Barclay, near
Barclay and West Street, I ended hooking up with
him.  Maybe a half an hour after or an hour after
the collapse, I ended up finding him.  He went on
to try to raise Engine 39 for a while longer.
Then the radio was just so busy.  There was no
response back from 39.
          What we were thinking then -- we didn't
know what to think, because the radios weren't
working.  We didn't know where they were, because
I didn't know that they hadn't come out of the
building.  I thought they were with me and the
rest of the crowd of firemen that, like I said,
walked out of the building to that passenger
bridge.  But I thought they were with me the
whole time.
          So we couldn't raise them on the radio.
We just decided to stay together the rest of the
J. DRUMM 22
day.  Pretty much nothing after a while.  We
stayed together.  Maybe a couple hours later I
ended up running into some of the truck guys from
Ladder 16 at Vesey and West.  Lieutenant Dan
Williams was the first one I saw, actually.
          I didn't believe it until I saw each
one of the engine members, but Lieutenant
Williams was the first one to tell me they were
okay, at least that they were alive.  That is
when I started to find out, because there is a
restaurant that is off of West Street down in
Battery Park City.  But near Vesey, a block in
off West, there was a few members.
          Lieutenant Williams said, "Go to the
front of this restaurant on the corner, one block
in off of West on Vesey," where I met up with one
of the members who was actually out on rotation,
but he was here at the time.
          Firefighter Bob Bacon was the first one
I saw.  He was one of the four members that had
gone back into the building for me.  That's when
I found out the story of what they had done.  I
was really upset at that point that I knew they
did that but also glad that they all came out.
J. DRUMM 23
          Two of them I think had gone to the
hospital.  Nobody had any really bad injuries
except abrasions, cuts, problems with breathing.
I believe two of the members, Jeff Coniglio and
James Efthimiades, I believe they went to the
hospital from the scene right away.
          When I saw everybody eventually, they
all got the biggest bear hug I ever gave anybody.
But I finally heard the story that afternoon from
Bob Bacon.  I saw him.  Then later in the day I
saw Lieutenant McGlynn.  Actually I just hooked
up with him just before -- up near Stuyvesant
High School where they were reassembling us at
one point.  I just hooked up with him, didn't
even get to talk with him, when building seven,
was that what it was?
     Q.   Yeah, building seven.
     A.   At like 5:00.
     Q.   5:00, yeah.
     A.   5:00 in the afternoon.  I just ran into
him and was about to talk to him about the story,
and everybody is yelling "Run!" again.  We made
our way up away from West Street a little bit.
We were actually heading into the school anyway.
J. DRUMM 24
They were trying to reassemble I think inside.
So we ran into the school.  Then I'm talking to
him.
          I think the next day I saw James
Efthimiades.  Then I saw Jeff Coniglio on
Thursday.  I finally was happy I saw all the
members were alive.
          I believe that -- everything is so
small details from my experience on September
11th.
     Q.   Okay.  Is there anything else you want
to add?  Anything else?
     A.   No.  I mentioned seeing Ladder 2.
     Q.   Yes, you mentioned seeing Freddie Ill?
     A.   Just by the time we got downstairs,
there was very few civilians I saw.  I guess all
the work we did on our way up keeping them
orderly -- from what I saw on the way down, very,
very few civilians were left, and they were
coming with us.  Everybody I was with felt on our
way down all the floors were clear and there was
no other civilians in the building.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Okay.  That's the end
     of the interview.  The time is 1420 hours,
     and that concludes the interview.  Thank
     you.

FILE NO 9110441
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER HUGH METTHAM
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 10 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

METTHAM
CHIEF CONGIUSTA TODAYS DATE IS JANUARY 10TH 2002 THE TIME IS 1045
HOURS THIS IS
BC FRANK CONGIUSTA OF THE
SAFETY DIVISION OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE
DEPARTMENT IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW
WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME
FIREFIGHTER METTHA1A FIREMAN HUGH
METTHAM
CHIEF CONGIUSTA OF LADDER 18 OF THE
NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT WERE AT THE QUARTERS OF LADDER 18 AND THIS INTERVIEW IS
REGARDING IS EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001 HUGH GO AHEAD AND TELL YOUR STORY THE MORNING OF SEPTEMBER 11TH STARTS
LIKE MOST MORNINGS IN FIREHOUSES AROUND THE CITY FIREFIGHTERS MAKE COFFEE CATCH UP ON FIREHOUSE NEWS CHECK THE APPARATUS AND FIND THEIR RIDING
POSITION FOR THE TOUR THIS IS ALL INTERRUPTED AROUND 847 BY PLANE THAT CRASHES INTO THE
NORTH TOWER OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER LITTLE DID LIEUTENANT BOREGA
FIREFIGHTERS CHARLIE MALONEY HARRY COYLE STEVE MERENDA RALPH CARDINO KEVIN MURRAY AND

METTHAM
REALIZE THAT THIS INCIDENT WOULD CHANGE ALL OF US THE FIRE DEPARTMENT THE CITY WE WORK FOR
AND WOULD BECOME THE MOST TRAGIC AND EVENTFUL DAY
IN NEW YORK CITY HISTORY
LADDER 18 IS LOCATED ON THE LOWER EAST
SIDE OF MANHATTAN AND IS HOUSED WITH BATTALION
ON SEPTEMBER 11TH BATTALION INITIAL PLANE CRASH LADDER
RESPONDS AFTER THE
RESPONDS EIGHT 855 ON THE FIFTH
OVER THE DEPARTMENT RADIO WE HEAR THAT PEOPLE ARE JUMPING FROM THE UPPER FLOORS AND THAT
THE WHOLE BUILDING IS BEING EVACUATED CHARLIE MALONEY WHO IS VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT FIRES
AND BUILDING CONSTRUCTION MENTIONS TO US THAT HE HAS FUNNY FEELING AND DOESNT LIKE THE SOUND OF
THIS
LIEUTENANT BOREGA TELLS ME THE CHAUFFEUR FOR THAT DAY TO RESPOND TO THE WORLD
TRADE CENTER BY THE FDR DRIVE THROUGH THE WEST STREET TUNNEL AT THE BATTERY JUST BEFORE
MINUTES LATER APPROXIMATELY
ALARM TO BOX 8087 WORLD TRADE CENTER NORTH
TOWER
THE WEST STREET TUNNEL THE SOUTH TOWER IS HIT BY ANOTHER PLANE
REACHING

METTHAM
EVEN THOUGH WE HADNT WITNESSED THE CRASH THE PLANES AND THICK BLACK SMOKE FROM THE IMPACT COULD BE SEEN BEFORE ENTERING THE TUNNEL WE ALL SENSED THE TERRIBLE REALITY THAT WE WERE HEADING INTO SOMETHING MUCH LARGER AND MORE HORRIFYING THAN SINGLE PLANE CRASH
LIEUTENANT BOREGA IMMEDIATELY LOOKS AT ME AND WE BOTH VERBALIZED SOMETHING ABOUT
TERRORIST ATTACK MY FOOT STARTS TO BOUNCE ON
THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL DANCING WITH ANXIETY
IT WAS JUST SOUTH OF LIBERTY ON WEST
STREET THAT WE FIRST ENCOUNTERED DEBRIS FROM THE PLANE CRASHES STEERED AWAY FROM LIBERTY
STREET AND HEAD NORTH ON WEST STREET AWAY FROM POSSIBLE IMPACT FROM FALLING BUILDING PARTS AND
JUMPERS
SINCE WE WERE HEADING TO THE NORTH TOWER PARKED THE APPARATUS UNDER THE
PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY BRIDGE THAT GOES OVER WEST STREET THE BRIDGE AFFORDS US PROTECTION FROM DEBRIS FALLING OFF THE TOWER WHILE WE MAKE OUR
WAY TO THE COMMAND POST IN THE LOBBY STILL WE HAVE TO HUG THE OUTER PORTION OF THE TOWER
HOPINA
THAT NOTHINA FALLS ON OR NEAR US

METTHAM
ONCE INSIDE THE LOBBY OF THE NORTH TOWER WE PREPARE FOR LONG CLIMB LIEUTENANT BOREGA GOES TO THE COMMAND POST TO GET OUR FLOOR ASSIGNMENT WHILE WAITING WE WATCHED THE CHAOTIC SCENE UNFOLD BEFORE US JUMPERS FALL FROM THE SKY AND CRASH ON THE PAVEMENT OUTSIDE THE LARGE LOBBY WINDOWS
THE TIRE COMMISSIONER MOVES THROUGH THE
THRONG OF FIREFIGHTERS TELLING US TO EVACUATE
THE BUILDING SEEMING TO IMPLY NOT TO WORRY ABOUT
PUTTING OUT THE FIRES
FIRE CHAPLAIN MYCHAL JUDGE IS SILENT SEEMING TO BE PRAYING FOR ALL OF US HIS EYES NOT LOOKING AT ANYONE IN PARTICULAR BUT SILENTLY SPEAKING TO ALL TO BE SAFE
AT THIS TIME HARRY COYLE NUDGES ME AND KEVINS FATHER IS IN ONE OF THE
WHISPERS
TOWERS THINK OF THE TREMENDOUS EMOTION AND
ANXIETY HAVE AND KNOW THAT KEVIN HAS TO BEAR WITH THE EXTRA BURDEN OF HAVING RELATIVE ON THE UPPER FLOOR OF THE TOWER
LIEUTENANT BOREGA RETURNS TO THE COMMAND POST AT THE LOBBY AND TELLS US TO START ON THE THIRD FLOOR AND WORK OUR WAY UP TO HELP

METTHAM
EVACUATE PEOPLE WE WILL CHECK THE STAIRWAYS AND FLOORS AND ASSIST CIVILIANS WHO ARE TRAPPED OR
NEED ASSISTANCE COMING DOWN
AM SURPRISED AND BIT RELIEVED THAT
LADDER 18 IS NOT CLIMBING FAR BUT THE WORDS
MAKE YOUR WAY UP CLEARLY MEANS THAT WE ARE EVENTUALLY GOING TO CLIMB
WE DECIDED TO DROP AND LEAVE OUR SPARE AIR CYLINDERS IN THE LOBBY THE EXTRA WEIGHT IS
NOT NEEDED WE ALL SENSE WE MUST CONSERVE OUR
ENERGY AND CLIMB SLOWLY AND QUIETLY GRAB
FEW BOTTLES OF WATER FROM THE ABANDONED NEWSTAND
AND HAND SOME TO HARRY WATER WILL BE NEEDED
AS WE ENTER THE STAIRS WE MEET PEOPLE
EVACUATING THE UPPER FLOORS SOME ARE WET AND EXHAUSTED AM IMPRESSED BY THEIR BEHAVIOR NO
SHOUTING OR PUSHING BUT OPENLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE FIREFIGHTERS WELFARE AND FOR OTHERS STILL
COMING DOWN
WHEN WE REACHED THE FOURTH FLOOR STEVE
AND RALPH FORCED FEW DOORS AND NO ONE IS
FOUND CHARLIE REALIZING THAT SOME OF THE LOWER FLOORS ARE PROBABLY MAINTENANCE AREAS TELLS US
TO TAKE QUICK LOOK AROUND AND THEN TO AO UP

METTHAM
WE ENTER THE FIFTH FLOOR ONCE AGAIN WE ARE IN THE MAINTENANCE AREA LIEUTENANT
BOREGA TELLS US TO FIND ALL THE STAIRWELLS AND STAIRCASES THAT LEAD DOWN WE DISCOVER THAT THREE STAIRCASES ARE IN USE EVACUATING PEOPLE
THE NORTH TOWER STARTS TO RUMBLE AND SHAKE VIOLENTLY WE ALL HEAD TO
STAIRWELL AND HUDDLE NEAR THE DOOR WHILE THE FLOOR WE ARE ON SHAKES AND RUMBLES FOR 30 SECONDS FOR MORE LIGHTS GO OUT AND WE ARE THROWN INTO TOTAL DARKNESS STAIRWAYS AND HALLWAYS FILL WITH SMOKE AND DUST AS THE RUMBLE AND ROAR SUBSIDES
ALL OF US START TO SPECULATE ON THE CAUSE OF THE RUMBLE IT COULD BE ANOTHER PLANE CRASH OR LOCALIZED COLLAPSE SOMEONE IN THE DARKNESS MENTIONS BOMB THERE IS LITTLE TIME NOW TO PONDER WHAT JUST HAPPENED WHAT COULD SHAKE THE NORTH TOWER SO VIOLENTLY
LIEUTENANT BOREGA TELLS US TO START
LIGHTING RELAY WITH OUR FLASHLIGHTS TO ASSIST THE CIVILIANS THAT ARE LEAVING THE STAIRCASES AND
CONVERGING WITH US ON THE FIFTH FLOOR
APPARENTLY SMOKE AND DUST HAD FILLED IT UP OR DOWN THE STAIRCASES AND ELEVATOR SHAFTS CAUSINA
SUDDENLY

METTHAM
CIVILIANS TO LOOK FOR ANOTHER WAY DOWN COMMUNICATION ABRUPTLY STOPS ON OUR
DEPARTMENT RADIOS ONLY FEW MAYDAY AND URGENT MESSAGES ARE HEARD AND THEN ABRUPTLY END
CHARLIE MALONEY DECIDES TO GO DOWN STAIRWAY TO SEE IF THE STAIRCASE IS STILL USABLE THE REST OF US GUIDE AND REDIRECT CIVILIANS FROM STAIRWELL
AND TO STAIRWELL AND WAIT TOR CHARLIES WORDS TO SEND THEM DOWN
STAIRWELLS AND ARE HEAVILY CHARGED WITH SMOKE AND DUST AND APPEARED TO BE UNUSABLE
AT THIS TIME WE ARE CONCERNED THAT WE ARE UNABLE TO CONTACT CHARLIE BUT WITH GROWING
ANXIETY AMONG CIVILIANS ON THE FIFTH FLOOR WHO WANT TO EVACUATE WE GUIDED THEM DOWN TO THE
LOBBY
AT THIS TIME WITH NO OTHER CIVILIANS
COMING DOWN ANY OF THE STAIRWELLS LIEUTENANT BOREGA TELLS US TO LEAVE THE FIFTH FLOOR AND
SAYS LETS GET OUT OF HERE QUESTIONED HARRY COYLE ABOUT CHARLIES WHEREABOUTS HE
ASSURES ME THAT CHARLIE WENT DOWN STAIRWELL AND
IS PROBABLY HELPING PEOPLE LEAVE THE LOBBY AS LIEUTENANT BOREAA STEVE RALPH KEVIN HARRY AND

METTHAM
DESCEND CAN ONLY HOPE THAT WE WILL MEET HIM THERE
THE SCENE IN THE LOBBY NOW IS COMPLETE CHAOS SMALL FIRES AND SMOKE RISE FROM ONE AREA
MARBLE SECTIONS THAT LINE THE WALLS HAVE SMASHED CABLE GLASS AND ELEVATOR PARTS LITTER THE AREA
WE MANEUVER AROUND THE DEBRIS LOOKING FOR CHARLIE
AND ARE MET BY RESCUE TIRETIGHTER SAYING THAT THERE ARE FIRE DEPARTMENT MEMBERS TRAPPED ON THE 11TH FLOOR
RALPH AND EXCHANGED GLANCES WE TURNED AROUND AND START TO ASCEND THE STAIRCASE
AGAIN TO ASSIST IN THE RESCUE EFFORT RALPH SAYS TO ME BOY WERE TEMPTING FATE NOW WE REACHED THE SIXTH OR SEVENTH FLOOR AND ARE MET BY MANY FIREFIGHTERS COMING DOWN THE STAIRS
INFORMING US THAT THE UPPER FLOORS ARE COLLAPSING AND THAT THERES HEAVY ODOR OF GAS AND FUEL
FEARING FOR OUR SAFETY THROUGH THE
RAPIDLY DETERIORATING CONDITIONS LIEUTENANT BOREGA TELLS US TO HEAD BACK TO THE LOBBY
HOPING THAT CHARLIE HAS LEFT THE BUILDING WE MEET ENGINE 28 IN THE LOBBY HARRY AND MENTION
TO ONE OF THE MEMBERS OF 28 THAT LADDER 18 IS

METTHAM 10
LEAVING THE TOWER LIEUTENANT BOREGA ALSO TELLS ENGINE 28S OFFICER THAT WE ARE LEAVING
DEBRIS CAN BE SEEN FALLING OUTSIDE THE
LOBBYS BROKEN DOORS AS BOTH COMPANIES ATTEMPT TO LEAVE ONCE AGAIN WE ARE FORCED TO HUG CLOSE TO
THE OUTSIDE PERIMETER OF THE BUILDING FEARING THAT DEBRIS MIGHT FALL ON US
WE REACH THE PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY ON WEST STREET AND HARRY SITS DOWN ON THE BACK STEP OF FIRE ENGINE TO CATCH HIS BREATH STEVE AND RALPH CONTINUE NORTH ON WEST STREET UNAWARE THAT HARRY IS FEELING SICK
LOOK AT HARRY AND THEN GLANCE OVER HIS SHOULDER AM STUNNED BY THE TERRIBLE
DESTRUCTION JUST SOUTH OF THE NORTH TOWER TRY TO COME UP WITH SOME EXPLANATION FOR IT BUT
CANT SOMETHING IS TELLING ME TO LEAVE THIS
AREA RIGHT NOW
TELL HARRY IF YOU CAN GET UP THINK WE SHOULD MOVE NOW HARRY NODS SAYS
SOMETHING AND THEN RISES FROM THE BACK STEP OF
THE ENGINE LIEUTENANT BOREGA KEVIN HARRY AND START TO WALK FAST IN NORTHERLY DIRECTION ON
WEST STREET

BEHIND AND ABOVE US THE UPPER SECTION
NORTH TOWER BEGINS TO COLLAPSE AND PUSH WAVE OF SMOKE ASH AND DEBRIS
OF THE OUT
METTHAM 11
15 SECONDS LATER NEAR THE CORNER OF VESEY AND WEST STREET WE HEAR TERRIBLE ROAR
WE RUN IN FEAR OF OUR LIVES
ENTIRE NORTH TOWER COLLAPSES AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO OUTRUN THE TREMENDOUS CLOUD OT ASH AND DEBRIS THAT IS TOPPLING DOWN AND BULGING OUTWARDS
KEVIN AND DIVE UNDER FIRE TRUCK WHILE LIEUTENANT BOREGA HARRY AND STEVE TAKE
REFUGE BEHIND OR UNDER OTHER PARKED APPARATUS
HUG THE GROUND IN FETAL POSITION PROTECTING MY EYES AND FACE FROM PELLETS OF CONCRETE THAT ARE
BOUNCING OFF MY FIRE HELMET AND BODY
DARK CLOUD OF DUST AND ASH ENGULFS
THE UNDERCARRIAGE OF THE FIRE TRUCK GASP FOR AIR AND PULL MY HOOD OVER MY MOUTH AND NOSE THE
NOISE FROM THE COLLAPSE IS INTENSE SHALL CONTINUE
SURE
UNEXPECTEDLY THE LOUD CRASHING SOUND
SUBSIDES IT IS
STRANAELY QUIET
THE

METTHAM 12
RAISED MY HEAD AND MOVE BACKWARDS HOLDING MY HANDS UP AND
TOUCHING THE BOTTOM OF THE APPARATUS CHASSIS MOVE ABOUT EIGHT FEET UNTIL AM ABLE TO GET OFF MY KNEES YELLED AT KEVIN THAT WE ARE NOT BURIED
THE DARK BROWN CLOUD BEGINS TO
DIMINISH MAKE OUT OUTLINES OF VEHICLES AHEAD
KEVIN MOVES NEXT TO ME SQUINTING AND PEERING THROUGH THE HAZE WE TRY TO FOCUS OUR EYES WHILE STUMBLING AND MOVING NORTH ON WEST STREET
WE LEAVE THE TERRIBLE FIRE AND DESTRUCTION BEHIND US AND START TO LOOK FOR LIEUTENANT BOREGA AND THE REST OF LADDER 18
FEW MINUTES LATER EMERGENCY WORKERS AND
FIREFIGHTERS CAN BE SEEN MOVING IN ALL
DIRECTIONS ONE STOPS AND TELLS KEVIN AND ME TO
SIT DOWN ON THE CURB HE POURS WATER ON OUR HEADS AND WE TRY TO CLEAN AWAY SOME OF THE GRIT
THAT IS LODGED AROUND OUR EYES
WITH OUR VISION IMPROVED KEVIN AND
CONTINUE TO LOOK FOR LADDER 18 LIEUTENANT BOREAA CHARLIE HARRY AND STEVE SPOT US ABOUT

METTHAM 13
TEN MINUTES LATER IT WAS TREMENDOUS RELIEF WE SEE ALL OF THEM ESPECIALLY CHARLIE MALONEY WHO
HAD LEFT US EARLIER INSIDE THE TOWER
WE ALSO FIND BOBBY NEWMAN FROM
BATTALION WHO TELLS US HOW HE NARROWLY ESCAPED FROM THE COLLAPSE OF BOTH TOWERS HE SURELY LOOKS THAT WAY WITH BOTH OF HIS SHOES BLOWN OFF HIS TEET
ASKED LIEUTENANT BOREGA WHERE RALPH IS HE SAYS WE HAVE TO CONTINUE LOOKING FOR
HIM STEVE MENTIONS THAT RALPH IS RUNNING AHEAD OF HIM WHEN THE NORTH TOWER COLLAPSED BUT ISNT SURE WHERE HE HID OR ESCAPED TO IT WOULD BE MANY HOURS BEFORE WE HEARD OF RALPHS
WHEREABOUTS HE ENDED UP IN ENGINE AND LADDER LS QUARTERS ON DUANE STREET AFTER BEING HUSTLED INTO EMERGENCY PICKUP TRUCK THAT HEADED NORTH TO 14TH STREET AFTER THE NORTH TOWER FELL HES RATTLED BUT OKAY
LADDER 18 IS EXTREMELY FORTUNATE ALL OF US MAKE IT OUT OF THE NORTH TOWER THE HOURS
WE SPENT AFTER THE COLLAPSE SEEM NOW TO BE COMPLETE BLUR THAT DESTRUCTION AND FIRE AFTER THE COLLAPSE DULLED OUR SENSES AND OVERWHELMED

METTHAM 14
US
THE SHOCK OF WITNESSING THE MASS DESTRUCTION AND CHAOS CLOSE UP AFTER JUST ESCAPING THE TOWERS BROUGHT ON SENSE OF
FUTILITY WHAT COULD WE DO TO HELP ALL WE
COULD DO IS JUST HOPE THAT OTHER FIREFIGHTERS POLICE RESCUE WORKERS AND CIVILIANS MADE IT OUT WE KNEW THAT IT WOULD TAKE AN EXTRAORDINARY
RESCUE EFFORT TO FIND AND REACH ANYONE ALIVE
GO ON TO THANK EVERYONE FROM THE 4TH BATTALION AND LADDER 18 FROM OUR MOST JUNIOR
MEMBERS TO OUR MOST SENIOR FIREFIGHTERS WHO HAVE
SHOWN COURAGE DEDICATION COMPASSION AND HUMILITY IN THE MOST TRYING OF TIMES
AM FORTUNATE TO WORK IN GREAT BATTALION AND FIREHOUSE THAT THROUGH THESE
DIFFICULT TIMES HAS DONE WHAT WAS NECESSARY YOUR COURAGE AND COMPASSION STARTED THE MOMENT
THE WTC WAS ATTACKED AND LASTED THROUGH THE LONG SAD MONTHS OF AUTUMN WHICH WERE FULL OF MEMORIAL SERVICES AND REMEMBRANCES
ALL OF YOU SHOULD BE PROUD TO BE
IN LADDER 18 THE 4TH BATTALION IN
FIREFIGHTERS NEW YORK CITY

METTHAM 15
THAT WAS MY REPORT OF WHAT HAPPENED CANT ASK YOU ANY QUESTIONS ON THAT
THAT PRETTY MUCH COVERS EVERYTHING
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WOULD LIKE
TO SAY THAT WASNT IN YOUR THING
NO MEAN THE THING WAS WITH THE RADIOS WE NEVER HEARD ANYTHING AS FAR AS GETTING OUT
OKAY WHEN
NOTHING AS FAR WHEN
COMMUNICATIONS STOPPED WE HEARD AS EVACUATE OR ANYTHING ELSE
WE GOT DOWN TO THE LOBBY THE
SECOND TIME WE LEFT THE BUILDING WE LEFT THE NORTH TOWER THROUGH THE EXIT ON WEST STREET WHEN WE LEFT IT WAS WITH MANY OTHER FIREFIGHTERS MANY OTHER PEOPLE STILL IN THE LOBBY NO CIVILIANS IT SEEMED TO ME MOSTLY
EMERGENCY WORKERS AND FIREFIGHTERS
WERE THEY TRYING TO GET OUT AT THIS
TIME
THEY WERE IN THE LOBBY THINK MAYBE THEY WERE WAITING FOR OTHER PEOPLE TO COME DOWN
OR THEY WERE WAITING FOR ORDERS OR ANYTHING ELSE WHEN WE ARRIVED DOWN TO THE LOBBY WE

METTHAM 16
MET 28 ENGINE AND AT THAT TIME WE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT OURSELVES WE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT FINDING CHARLIE MALONEY WE SAW 28 AND SAID WERE GOING WERE LEAVING RIGHT NOW
THEY MUST HAVE LOOKED AT US AND WE SAW THE SEVERITY OF THE SITUATION AND WE SAID WERE LEAVING RIGHT NOW THEY FOLLOWED US OUT
HUH
THEY DID THANK GOD
YEAH THAT WAS FORTUNATE THE UNFORTUNATE THING WAS THAT THERE WAS LOT OF
OTHER COMPANIES LOT OF OTHER FIREMEN STILL IN THE LOBBY THE ONLY REGRET HAVE IS THAT THOSE FIREMEN AND FIRE WOMAN OR WHATEVER RESCUE WORKERS THEY PROBABLY COULD HAVE LEFT ALSO
YEAH ONCE IT STARTED COMING DOWN IT WAS TOO LATE
THATS THE HARD THING ABOUT IT KNOWING THAT THERE WERE SO MANY OTHER PEOPLE STILL LEFT
IN THAT LOBBY
WHO COULD HAVE GOT OUT THAT COULD HAVE GOT OUT
THANK YOU FOR THE INTERVIEW HUAH
CHIEF CONGIUSTA ITS 1105 AND THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW
THEY DID

FILE NO 9110442
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
LIEUTENANT INTERVIEW DATE
WILLIAM WALSH JANUARY 11 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

WALSH
CHIEF CONGIUSTA TODAY IS JANUARY 11TH 2002 THE TIME IS 1200 THIS IS BC FRANK CONGIUSTA OF THE SAFETY BATTALION OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME LIEUTENANT WALSH MY NAME IS
LIEUTENANT WILLIAM WALSH IM ASSIGNED TO
LADDER COMPANY
CHIEF CONGIUSTA OF THE NEW YORK CITY
FIRE DEPARTMENT WERE AT THE QUARTERS OF LADDER REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER
11TH
2001
BILL IF YOU WOULD PLEASE TELL US WHAT
HAPPENED THAT DAY IN YOUR OWN WORDS
OKAY ALL RIGHT REPORTED FOR WORK
ABOUT 800 THAT MORNING TO START 24 WE RECEIVED RUN ABOUT 830 IN THE MORNING FOR
GAS LEAK UP AT LISPENARD STREET AND CHURCH WE WERE OPERATING AT THAT BOX ALONG WITH ENGINE BATTALION AND LADDER COMPANY BELIEVE 55 ENGINE WAS THERE ALSO MAYBE ENGINE 24 IM NOT SURE

WALSH
AFTER ABOUT 15 MINUTES WE CONCLUDE OUR OPERATIONS THERE LISPENARD IS ABOUT ONE BLOCK
SOUTH OF CANAL STREET BELIEVE THE CHIEF
THE CODE FOR GAS LEAK 10 40 CODE ALL THE
UNITS WERE ABOUT TO GO 10 WHEN WE HEARD THIS LOUD ROAR EVERYBODY THOUGHT OR AT LEAST TO
ME IT SOUNDED AS THOUGH THERE WAS GOING TO BE CON EDISON STEAM EXPLOSION THIS WAS ABOUT
QUARTER TO ID SAY
SO EVERYBODY LOOKED UP TO WHERE THEY
THOUGHT THEY HEARD THE SOUND COMING FROM AND WE SAW AN AMERICAN AIRLINES PLANE TO ME IT LOOKED
AS THOUGH IT WAS GOING TREETOP LEVEL RIGHT DOWN WEST STREET THEN HE APPEARED TO RISE LITTLE
BIT
WE WERE UNDER THE IMPRESSION HE LOOKED LIKE HE WAS GOING DOWN BUT WE DIDNT HEAR
ANY MECHANICAL DIFFICULTY WE COULDNT FIGURE OUT WHY AN AMERICAN AIRLINES PLANE WOULD BE SO
LOW IN DOWNTOWN MANHATTAN WE SORT OF EXPECTED HIM TO VEER OFF AND GO INTO THE HUDSON
BUT HE JUST ROSE LITTLE BIT HIS ALTITUDE LEVELED OFF AND HE WAS HEADED STRAIGHT FOR THE TRADE CENTER SO JUST BEFORE HE GOT TO
GAVE

WALSH
THE TRADE CENTER IT SEEMED AS THOUGH HE GAINED
POWER WE WERE JUST WATCHING THIS AIRPLANE ON TARGET FOR THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
ALL OF SUDDEN BOOM HE DISAPPEARS INTO THE TRADE CENTER YOU HEAR THIS SICKENING
NOISE AS IF TWO PIECES OF FIBERGLASS HAD HIT YOU HEAR THIS LOUD EXPLOSION HE JUST
DISAPPEARED
INTO THE TRADE CENTER
YOU COULD SEE HUGE FIREBALL COME OUT
FROM WHERE HE HIT GUESS IT WAS ABOUT TEN STORIES HIGH OF BROWN SMOKE COMING OUT AND
THOUSANDS OF PIECES OF PAPER BEING THROWN THROUGH THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
SO IMMEDIATELY EVERYBODY GOT INTO THE RIG WE AUTOMATICALLY RESPONDED DOWN TO THE
WORLD TRADE CENTER WE WENT UP ONE BLOCK NORTH TO CANAL STREET MADE LEFT WENT STRAIGHT DOWN TO WEST STREET THEN WE HEADED SOUTH FROM THERE
IMAGINE WE GOT DOWN THERE IN LESS THAN TWO MINUTES
SO WHEN WE HAD GOTTEN DOWN TO THE FRONT OF ONE WORLD TRADE CENTER WHICH HAPPENS TO BE
WEST STREET THATS THE MAIN ENTRANCE WHAT OBSERVED WAS LOT OF ASH ON THE GROUND LOT OF

WALSH
PAPER ON THE GROUND NO VEHICLE TRAFFIC WHATSOEVER NO CIVILIANS WHATSOEVER IT WAS LIKE
THE AREA WAS GHOST TOWN GUESS THERE WAS
PIECES OF BURNING DEBRIS ON THE GROUND REALLY COULDNT SAY WHAT IT WAS
ON THE WAY DOWN THERE WHAT HEARD OVER THE RADIO WAS BATTALION CHIEF GIVING REPORT THAT LARGE PLANE HAD HIT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER HEARD THE OFFICER OF ENGINE 10 SAYING TO SEND EVERY AVAILABLE AMBULANCE TO DOWNTOWN MANHATTAN BECAUSE PLANE HAD JUST HIT THE TRADE CENTER ENGINE 10 WOULD BE FIRST DUE LADDER 10 IS FIRST DUE DIDNT HEAR ANY TRANSMISSIONS
FROM THEM ME LADDER IS SECOND TRUCK
SO WE HAD PARKED THE APPARATUS RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE GLASS OVERHANG ON WEST STREET WHICH IS THE MAIN ENTRANCE TO WORLD TRADE CENTER NUMBER ONE WE ALL GATHERED OUR TOOLS AND WE HEADED TO THROUGH THE FRONT DOOR
NOW THE FRONT DOOR IS REVOLVING DOOR THERE IS VESTIBULE OF ABOUT TEN FEET
LETS SAY AND THERES ANOTHER REVOLVING DOOR THERE NOTICED TWO CIVILIANS THAT HAD MORE THAN
THIRD DEGREE BURNS

WALSH
THEY WERE IN PUGILISTIC POSITION THEY WERE BLACK BURNT THEIR SKIN AND THEIR CLOTHES
WERE BURNT OFF THEY WERE SMOLDERING AND THEY
WERE TRYING TO GET UP THEY WERE JUST MOVING AROUND HAD ESTIMATED THEY HAD LESS THAN HALF
MINUTE LEFT IN THEIR LIVES SO WE HAD JUST
PASSED THEM BY
WHAT OBSERVED AS WAS GOING THROUGH
THESE DOORS AND GOT INTO THE LOBBY OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WAS THAT THE LOBBY OF THE TRADE
CENTER DIDNT APPEAR AS THOUGH IT HAD ANY LIGHTS ALL OF THE GLASS ON THE FIRST FLOOR
THAT ABUTS WEST STREET WAS BLOWN OUT THE GLASS IN THE REVOLVING DOORS WAS BLOWN OUT ALL OF THE GLASS IN THE LOBBY WAS BLOWN OUT
THE WALL PANELS ON THE WALL ARE MADE OF MARBLE ITS ABOUT TWO OR THREE INCHES THICK THEYRE ABOUT TEN FEET HIGH BY TEN FEET WIDE
LOT OF THOSE WERE HANGING OFF THE WALL
WAIT SECOND
INTERRUPTION
WHAT ELSE OBSERVED IN THE LOBBY WAS
THAT THERES BASICALLY TWO AREAS OF ELEVATORS THERES ELEVATORS OFF TO THE LEFT HAND SIDE WHICH

WALSH
ARE REALLY THE EXPRESS ELEVATORS THAT WOULD BE THE ELEVATORS THATS FACING NORTH THEN ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE THERES ALSO ELEVATORS THAT ARE EXPRESS ELEVATORS AND THAT WOULD BE FACING SOUTH IN THE CENTER OF THESE TWO ELEVATOR SHAFTS WOULD BE ELEVATORS THAT GO TO THE LOWER FLOORS THEY WERE BLOWN OFF THE HINGES THATS WHERE THE SERVICE ELEVATOR WAS ALSO
WERE THESE ELEVATORS THAT WENT TO THE
UPPER FLOORS THEY WERENT SIDE LOBBY ELEVATORS
NO NO ID SAY THAT THEY WENT THROUGH FLOORS 30 AND BELOW
AND THEY WERE BLOWN OFF
THEY WERE BLOWN OFF THE HINGES AND YOU COULD SEE THE SHAFTS THE ELEVATORS ON THE EXTREME NORTH SIDE AND THE OTHER EXPRESS ELEVATOR ON THE EXTREME SOUTH SIDE THEY LOOKED INTACT TO ME FROM WHAT COULD SEE THE DOORS ANYWAY
SO WE REPORTED TO THE LOBBY COMMAND
10 WAS THERE LADDER 10 WAS THERE THE LOBBY SEEMED TO FILL UP WITH FIREMEN VERY QUICKLY WAS REPORTING TO THE 1ST BATTALION
CHIEF WHICH IS CHIEF PFEIFER AT THAT TIME HE WAS WITH THE 1ST DIVISION CHIEF WHICH WAS CHIEF
POST ENGINE

WALSH
HAYDEN
TWO OF THOSE CHIEFS WERE TRYING TO COLLECT INFORMATION WHICH WAS VERY DIFFICULT FOR THEM BECAUSE AS FAR AS COULD SEE THE CLASS SYSTEM DO NOT THINK WAS WORKING CANT SAY FOR SURE BUT THESE CHIEFS DEPEND UPON THE INFORMATION FROM THE CLASS SYSTEM AND DONT THINK THAT THE CLASS SYSTEM WAS WORKING PROPERLY
NORMALLY THERE ARE WORLD TRADE CENTER
BUILDING PERSONNEL THAT COME DOWN AND THEY HAND YOU TRADE CENTER RADIOS WHICH YOU CAN STRETCH THE LENGTH OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER THESE PEOPLE WERE NOT AROUND SO AS FAR AS KNOW
WAS THERE FOR AT LEAST TEN MINUTES THERE WERE NO WORLD TRADE CENTER PEOPLE TO ASSIST THESE CHIEFS
THE DIVISION AIDE WHICH WAS CHRIS
WAUGH HE WAS IN THE LOBBY HE WAS SETTING UP THE BOARD THE COMMAND POST BOARD REMEMBER
ONE TIME CHIEF PFEIFER MADE EYE CONTACT WITH HIM HE WAS ABOUT TO TELL ME SOMETHING AND THEN HE CHANGED HIS MIND QUICKLY AND TOLD ME TO HOLD ON

DIVISION AIDE SAID TO EVERYBODY JUST
WALSH
WE WERE THERE FOR IT SEEMED TO ME LIKE ABOUT TEN MINUTES OR SO THEN FINALLY THE
GO UP
ANY STAIRWAY THAT YOU CAN AND HANDY TALKY ME WHAT
STAIRWAY YOU WENT UP
SO HEADED FOR THE STAIRWAY DID
NOT WANT TO DEAL WITH ELEVATORS SO LADDER
WERE THERE ANY ELEVATORS WORKING OR NO
PROBABLY NOT ASSUME
COULDNT TELL ABOUT THE EXPRESS
ELEVATORS THE ELEVATORS THAT MENTIONED BEFORE THAT WERE ON THE EXTREME NORTH END AND THE
EXTREME SOUTH END DONT KNOW ABOUT THOSE ELEVATORS BUT HEADED FOR WHERE THE SERVICE ELEVATOR WAS WHICH WAS IN THE CENTER WHERE THE LOWER FLOOR ELEVATORS WERE THE ONES WHERE THE DOORS WERE BLOWN OFF THEM
SO HAD KNOWN WHERE THE STAIRWAY WAS AND LADDER HAD OPENED UP THE DOOR TO THE
WITHIN SEVERAL SECONDS WE NOTICED CIVILIANS COMING DOWN IN AN ORDERLY FASHION AND SOME WATER COMING DOWN THE STAIRS ASSUME THAT THIS WATER WAS EITHER BROKEN STANDPIPES OR SPRINKLER PIPES THAT HAD GONE OFF
STAIRWAY

WALSH 10
HAD MY THERMAL IMAGING CAMERA WITH ME AND THEN REALIZED THAT DID NOT HAVE MY
SEARCH ROPE FIGURED THAT DIDNT NEED MY THERMAL IMAGING CAMERA TO FIND FIRE AT THIS POINT
BUT DID NEED MY SEARCH ROPE
INSTRUCTED MY MEMBERS TO WAIT IN THE
LOBBY NEXT TO THE STAIRWELL WENT OUTSIDE TO
MY RIG AND SWAPPED MY SEARCH ROPE FOR THE THERMAL IMAGING CAMERA CAME BACK AND WE ALL
OF US STARTED HEADING UP THE STAIRS
MY OV WHICH WAS STEVE OLSEN DONT
THINK YOU MENTIONED HIM BEFORE WELL GET INTO THAT LATER
HE WAS INTERVIEWED
HE DIDNT MENTION IT
JUST HAVE GUYS THAT HAVENT BEEN INTERVIEWED SO ANYBODY THAT WAS INTERVIEWED
DONT EVEN KNOW ABOUT
HE WENT UP AHEAD OF ME WHICH IS
SOMETHING DIDNT LIKE BUT ANYWAY HES AN
AGGRESSIVE FIREFIGHTER HE WENT UP AHEAD OF US AS WE STARTED MAKING OUR WAY UP THE STAIRS IT WAS LITTLE BIT SLOW GOING YOU HAD TO PACE YOURSELF BECAUSE YOU KNEW YOU WERE GOING UP 90
ALREADY PROBABLY

WALSH 11
FLIGHTS OF STAIRS
THIS BATTALION CHIEF HAD ASKED US TO
TURN OFF SOME SPRINKLER HEADS THAT HAD ACTIVATED ON THE FOURTH FLOORS AND OTHER FLOORS THAT
CANT REMEMBER SO WE STARTED TURNING OFF SPRINKLER HEADS
BELIEVE THAT WE TOOK REST ON MAYBE FLOOR NUMBER SEVEN AND THEN AGAIN ON FLOOR 12
WE MADE OUR NEXT STOP ON FLOOR NUMBER 19 WHICH IS AS HIGH AS WE HAD GOTTEN WE WERE ALL SWEATING AND DEBILITATED AT THAT POINT
DO YOU WANT ME TO GET INTO WHO SAW YEAH SURE THATS GOOD INFORMATION
REMEMBER SEEING THE OFFICER FROM LADDER HIS NAME IS LIEUTENANT WARCHOLA
REMEMBER SEEING HIM ON THE STAIRS WITH HIS
REMEMBER SEEING CAPTAIN JONAS OF LADDER COMPANY WE HAD PASSED EACH OTHER ON
THE STAIRS THEY WOULD TAKE REST WOULD PASS THEM WE WOULD TAKE REST AND THEN THEY WOULD
PASS US BUT THOSE TWO OFFICERS REMEMBER
SEEING AS WE PASSED EACH OTHER ON THE STAIRWAY AFTER TURNING OFF SOME SPRINKLER HEADS
AND SOMETIME WAITING FOR MY CREW MEMBERS TO
COMPANY

WALSH 12
REJOIN US BECAUSE THE PACE WAS VERY SLOW GOING UP THE STAIRS BECAUSE IF SOMEBODY HAD STOPPED
AHEAD OF YOU WHATEVER FLOOR THAT WAS ABOVE YOU YOU HAD TO WAIT UNTIL THE LINE HAD STARTED AGAIN
EVERYTHING WAS FAIRLY ORDERLY AS FAR AS THE CIVILIANS DESCENDING AND THE FIREMEN ASCENDING
REMEMBER PORT AUTHORITY CHIEF HE WAS BLACK AND BELIEVE HE HAD EITHER ONE OR TWO
STARS ON HIM REMEMBER HIM TRYING TO GET TOGETHER HIS MEN ON THE STAIRWELL AND IT LOOKED
AS THOUGH THERE WAS ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE OF THEM AT THE TIME HAD MENTIONED THAT THIS WAS THE STAIRWELL
THIS HAPPENED ON ABOUT FLOOR NUMBER 10 OR SO HE WAS TRYING TO REGROUP HIS MEN AND HE
WANTED THEM OFF THE FLOOR AT FLOOR NUMBER 10 OR 12 OR SO GUESS HE WANTED TO GIVE THEM INSTRUCTIONS
LADDER HAD MADE ITS STOP AT FLOOR NUMBER 19 BECAUSE AT FLOOR NUMBER 19 YOU COULD
TELL THAT WERE SODA MACHINES THERE CANDY
MACHINES AS SOON AS YOU OPENED UP THE STAIRWAY DOOR AND LOOKED INSIDE INTO THE OCCUPANCY
THINK THE GUYS WERE BREAKING OPEN THE

WALSH 13
SODA MACHINES TO TAKE WATER JUICE AND COOKIES FROM THE OTHER VENDING MACHINES WE WERE ALL
SWEATING HEAVILY AT THIS POINT LOT OF US TOOK OFF OUR HELMETS AND MASKS AND TURNOUT COATS
BELIEVE THAT LADDER HAD ALSO STOPPED AROUND THAT AREA ALSO ON FLOOR NUMBER 19
HAD TO WAIT FOR TWO OF MY MEMBERS HAD TO WAIT FOR DAMIAN VANCLEAF AND HAD TO WAIT FOR MEMBER OF LADDER COMPANY 10 BELIEVE HE WAS THE OV THAT DAY
HE WAS GOING TO BE OPERATING WITH ME BECAUSE GUESS HE LOST HIS UNIT SOMEHOW
GUESS BEING THE OV HE JUST ASSUMED THAT HE WAS GOING TO BE OPERATING THE ELEVATORS AND IT DIDNT WORK OUT THAT WAY ANYWAY HE WAS STRAGGLER SO
HE ATTACHED HIMSELF TO ME
SO HAD TO WAIT FOR VANCLEAF AND THIS
OV FROM LADDER COMPANY 10 THEY FINALLY JOINED US AT FLOOR NUMBER 19 CANT SAY HOW LONG
WAS THERE BELIEVE IT WAS ABOUT LIKE 1000
THAT HAD GOTTEN TO THAT POINT WE WERE ON GUESS YOU WOULD CALL IT THE WEST STREET SIDE OF FLOOR NUMBER 19 ENGINE WAS ON THE EAST SIDE WHICH WOULD BE ABUTTING WORLD TRADE CENTER NUMBER

WALSH 14
HAD HEARD THROUGH THE ENGINE OFFICER MAYDAY HECAUSE ONE OF HIS MEMBERS
BELIEVED HE WAS HAVING HEART ATTACK HE SAID
SOMETHING ABOUT CHEST PAINS OR SOMETHING IM AN EMT SO WENT OVER THERE ACROSS THE FLOOR ON FLOOR NUMBER GUESS IT WOULD BE EXPOSURE SIDE
INQUIRED ABOUT THIS MEMBER BUT HE SEEMED OKAY TO ME HE SEEMED TO MAKE QUICK
RECOVERY MAYBE IT WAS JUST FAST CHEST PAIN HE WAS HAVING CHEST PAINS HE WAS OKAY
SO TRIED TO GATHER MY MEMBERS BECAUSE THEY DIDNT LIKE THE PROGRESS WE WERE
MAKING AT THIS POINT THEY FELT AS THOUGH WE
SHOULD BE LITTLE BIT HIGHER
LIEUTENANT FODY WHO WAS ASSIGNED TO
ENGINE HES NOW CAPTAIN OF ENGINE COMPANY HE WAS WORKING OVERTIME THAT DAY IN ENGINE
COMPANY HE WAS ON THE FLOOR WITH US TAKING REST THINK HE MIGHT HAVE STARTED UP THE STAIRS THE SAME STAIRWELL THAT WE WERE USING BELIEVE HE LEFT ABOUT TEN MINUTES BEFORE DID AND THIS WAS ABOUT 1000 WERE TALKING ABOUT
UP

WALSH 15
AT THIS POINT THINK MY CHAUFFEUR
WAS TRYING TO COLLECT ALL MY MEMBERS AND HAD
ALL OF MY MEMBERS WITH THE EXCEPTION OF
WHO KNEW WAS ON THE 22ND FLOOR BECAUSE TRIED TO FIND HIM THROUGH THE HANDY TALKY AND HE TOLD ME THAT HE WAS ON THE ZZND FLOOR SAID WAIT FOR ME ON THE ZZND
FLOOR DONT GO ANY FURTHER BECAUSE WANTED ALL MY MEMBERS IN GROUP
SO WE WERE ABOUT TO REGROUP NOW AND IT MUST HAVE BEEN ABOUT GUESS IT WAS ABOUT
1015 AT THIS POINT MY CHAUFFEUR FIREFIGHTER ONEILL HE SAID HE HAD TO GO TO THE BATHROOM
HE WAS LOOKING AROUND THE FLOOR FOR BATHROOM HE FINALLY FINDS ONE
WERE WAITING FOR HIM WE MUST BE WAITING FOR ABOUT FIVE MINUTES OR SO GUESS WAS STILL ON THE EXPOSURE SIDE THE WEST STREET SIDE IN THE HALLWAY COULD LOOK TO MY RIGHT AND SEE 19S AND COULD LOOK TO MY LEFT AND SEE 19N WHICH APPARENTLY MEANT NORTH AND SOUTH
ABOUT THIS TIME 1015 20 AFTER OR SO FEEL RUMBLING OF THE BUILDING IT FELT AS
THOUGH GOT KNOCKED FROM ONE SIDE OF THE
FIREFIGHTER OLSEN

DEBRIS IN THE HALLWAY
DEBRIS IN THE HALLWAY
DEBRIS IN THE HALLWAY
TO ANY WINDOWS AT THIS
HALLWAY NO WINDOWS WERE AROUND US TO THE
WALSH 16
HALLWAY TO THE OTHER SIDE IT FELT LIKE YOU WERE
IN SUBWAY CAR STANDING UP AND THE SUBWAY CAR WAS MAKING TURN AND YOU WERE GETTING SHIFTED BACK AND FORTH THATS THE WAY THAT IT FELT
WE LATER FIND OUT THAT THIS WAS WORLD TRADE CENTER NUMBER TWO COLLAPSING IT HAD HIT WORLD TRADE CENTER NUMBER ONE AND GUESS IT HIT THE MARRIOTT HOTEL DIDNT KNOW THIS AT THE TIME BECAUSE WE WERE IN THE STAIRWELL WHICH IS BASICALLY SOUNDPROOF AND NO WINDOWS SO DIDNT KNOW THAT THE SECOND WORLD TRADE CENTER HAD BEEN HIT BY THE SECOND PLANE
ALL THIS TIME OPERATED ON THE
TACTICAL CHANNEL CHANNEL AT THIS
FELT AS THOUGH IT WAS LOCALIZED COLLAPSE THE LIGHTS WENT OUT AND THE CEILING PANELS FELL DOWN DUST FELL DOWN THE EMERGENCY LIGHTS STAYED ON
COULD LOOK AROUND AND SEE PIECES OF
IT DIDNT SEEM LIKE MUCH BUT THERE WERE PIECES OF
DID NOT HAVE ANY ACCESS POINT BECAUSE WAS IN THE
POINT

WALSH 17
OUTSIDE YOU DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON OUTSIDE
SO WAS ABOUT TO COLLECT MY MEMBERS AND START HEADING
DID YOU KNOW THE SECOND TOWER HAD BEEN HIT BY PLANE
NO NO
SO STARTED COLLECTING MY MEMBERS AND
WAS ABOUT TO GO UP THE STAIRWAY AND HEARD
MAYDAYS TO GET OUT OF THE BUILDING DIDNT REALLY KNOW WHO GAVE THE MAYDAY IT COULD HAVE
BEEN ONE CHIEF GIVING IT TO ANOTHER CHIEF WHO WAS OPERATING ON THE COMMAND CHANNEL AND THAT CHIEF
MIGHT HAVE GIVEN IT OUT IM NOT SURE JUST HEARD GET OUT OF THE BUILDING
SO COLLECTED ALL MY MEMBERS AND INFORMED FIREFIGHTER OLSEN TO GET OUT OF THE
BUILDING HE DIDNT ACKNOWLEDGE ME THERE WAS LOT OF HANDY TALKY TRAFFIC GOING ON AT THE TIME FOUR OF MY MEMBERS WENT DOWN AHEAD OF ME AND THEN WAS THE NEXT ONE TO GO DOWN
AS WE WERE GOING DOWN THE STAIRS ON THE LOWER FLOORS THERE WERE FIREMEN TAKING RESTS COULDNT IDENTIFY THE COMPANIES ASSUME THAT

DIDNT GIVE IT CONTINUED WITH
SECOND THOUGHT THEY JUST THEIR REST
SO LOBBY LOOKED CONDITION AS ALL OVER THE
MADE IT DOWN TO THE LOBBY AND THE AS THOUGH IT WAS IN THE SAME
HAD LEFT IT AS FAR AS THE DEBRIS LOBBY LOOKED OUT TO WEST STREET
WALSH 18
THEY WERE BROOKLYN UNITS UNITS THAT CAME
SUBSEQUENT TO US THEY WERE HANGING OUT ON THE STAIRWELL AND IN THE OCCUPANCY AND THEY WERE
RESTING
TOLD THEM DIDNT YOU HEAR THE MAYDAY GET OUT THEY WERE SAYING YEAH
YEAH WELL BE RIGHT WITH YOU LOU THEY JUST
AND SOUTH OF ME COULD SEE THE RUBBLE OF BUILDING WOULD LATER FIND OUT IT WAS THE
RUBBLE OF TWO WORLD TRADE CENTER THAT HAD FALLEN DOWN
DECIDED TO HEAD NORTH COULD SEE LIKE FOUR OF MY MEMBERS THAT HAD RUN AHEAD OF ME
WAS AT THE GLASS OVERHANG AND COULD HEAR BODIES HITTING THE GLASS AS MATTER OF FACT
COULD SEE IT BODIES JUMPING HITTING THE GLASS OVERHANG IN FRONT OF WEST STREET WHICH MY RIG
WAS RIGHT IN FRONT OF THAT ALSO THERE WAS

WALSH 19
DEBRIS ON MY RIG MY RIG LOOKED SMASHED AT THIS POINT AGAIN NOBODY WAS IN THE STREET AND
THERE WERE NO CARS IN THE STREET
GOT OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING THERE
WERE BODIES FALLING DOWN AND THERE WAS SOME DEBRIS FALLING DOWN THERE WAS LOT MORE ASH IN
THE STREET FROM THE ENTRANCEWAY TO THE WORLD
TRADE CENTER GOING NORTH THERES PEDESTRIAN OVERPASS AND WANTED TO MAKE IT THERE THINK IT WAS ABOUT 50 YARDS UP OR SO THIS IS GOING NORTH ON WEST STREET NOW JUST BEFORE VESEY STREET THERES ABOUT 50 YARD RUN
JUST HELD MY BREATH AND JUST HOPED THAT NOTHING CAME DOWN AND HIT ME AND RAN TO
THIS PEDESTRIAN OVERPASS THERE WAS FIRE ENGINE THERE HOOKED UP TO HYDRANT AND THERE
WAS THE CHAUFFEUR THAT WAS THERE DIDNT REALLY GET GOOD LOOK AT THE CHAUFFEUR OR GET GOOD LOOK AT THE ENGINE COMPANY THAT WAS THERE
MADE IT TO THE PEDESTRIAN OVERPASS WHERE STAYED THERE FOR WHILE WAS TRYING
TO COLLECT MY THOUGHTS BECAUSE COULDNT UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS GOING ON THEN THERE WAS
THIS PERSON WHO HAD BADGE AROUND HIS NECK HE

WAS IN CIVILIAN UNIFORM BUT BLUE WINDBREAKER THAT IDENTIFIED HE WORKED FOR
OEM
THINK HE HAD
SOME AGENCY THAT
WALSH
20
NO IDEA HE WAS BLACK PERSON HE SAID WE WERE IN THE COLLAPSE ZONE HAD JUST ASSUMED HE KNEW MORE THAN DID AT THIS POINT SO
JUST STARTED WALKING FAST WHEN REACHED VESEY STREET WHICH IS ONLY ABOUT ANOTHER 20
YARDS UP OR SO STARTED WALKING VERY QUICKLY NOW NORTH UP WEST STREET
THINK WAS ABOUT BLOCK AWAY OR SO MAYBE EVEN LESS AND TURNED AROUND TO TAKE
LOOK AT THE TOP OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER THERE WAS LOTS OF SMOKE OR DUST WHERE TWO WORLD TRADE
CENTER WAS BUT DIDNT FOCUS ON THAT HAD NO IDEA THAT THE SECOND WORLD TRADE CENTER HAD
GOTTEN HIT FOCUSED ON WORLD TRADE CENTER NUMBER ONE
THE WIND WAS BLOWING SOUTH THAT DAY AND YOU HAD CLEAR VIEW OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER COULD SEE WHERE IT WAS HEAVILY ON FIRE ASSUMED IT WAS ABOUT THE 95TH FLOOR OR SO ALL OF SUDDEN IT STARTS COMING DOWN

WALSH 21
THAT PUT PANIC INTO ME
JUST DROPPED MY TOOLS AND STARTED
RUNNING NORTH AS FAST AS COULD BUT THEN THE DEBRIS STARTED COMING DOWN AND TO ME IT SOUNDED
LIKE THE ROAR OF FREIGHT TRAIN IN THE BACKGROUND YOU COULD HEAR BEAMS HITTING BEAM LIKE
AN ERECTOR SET FALLING DOWN
ALL THE DUST AND ASH HAD FINALLY HIT
THE GROUND AND STARTED MUSHROOMING THE WIDTH OF WEST STREET AND HAD STARTED GOING EAST AND THEN
IT STARTED MUSHROOMING TOWARDS ME STARTED RUNNING AS FAST AS COULD BUT WAS OVERTAKEN
BY THIS WAS BLOWN DOWN THOUGHT THAT WAS IT FOR ME THOUGHT THAT WAS DEAD
AFTER EVERYTHING TURNED BLACK AND AFTER SEVERAL SECONDS MAYBE 10 OR 15 OR SO OPENED
WAS COVERED WITH ASH COULD SEE LIKE LITTLE POCKETS OF FIRE AROUND ME THOUGHT
WAS IN HELL OR PURGATORY AT THAT POINT REALIZED THAT HAD SURVIVED
GOT UP AND CONTINUED TO RUN NORTH LOST ALL OF MY EQUIPMENT MY MASK FELL OFF MY
UP MY EYES
HELMET AND MY LIGHTS AND ALL OF THAT SO RAN NORTH AND RAN AS FAR AS BELIEVE
JUST IT WAS

WALSH 22
HARRISON STREET OR AROUND THAT AREA WHICH IS AHOUT FOUR BLOCKS NORTH OR SO
THATS WHERE RAN INTO CAPTAIN TARDIO OF ENGINE RAN INTO OTHER MEMBERS OF ENGINE
OTHER MEMBERS OF LADDER THAT WERE WORKING EVERYBODY HAD SURVIVED THAT WAS WORKING THAT DAY FROM THIS HOUSE ENGINE LADDER
THEN CAPTAIN TARDIO AND BELIEVE MEMBER OF ENGINE BILLY GREEN WERE WALKING
TOGETHER FINALLY MET THEM CAPTAIN TARDIO SEEMED STRESSED OUT BECAUSE HE WAS UNDER THE
ASSUMPTION THAT HE HAD LOST TWO OF HIS MEMBERS
WHO WERE TENDING THE RIG
WE GOT HIS TURNOUT COAT OFF HIS MASK
HIS HELMET TOLD HIM WOULD HELP HIM LOOK FOR THESE PEOPLE THINK HAD GOTTEN IN TOUCH WITH OTHER MEMBERS OF MY COMPANY OF LADDER HAD EITHER PHYSICALLY SEEN THEM OR HEARD THEM OVER THE HANDY TALKY SO KNEW ALL MY MEMBERS HAD MADE IT
SO CAPTAIN TARDIO MYSELF AND FIREFIGHTER OLSEN STARTED TO WALK SOUTH NOW AND
WE WERE GOING TO SEARCH FOR THESE TWO MEMBERS THAT WERE MISSING FIREFIGHTER SPINARD WHO WAS

THE CHAUFFEUR THAT DAY AND FIREFIGHTER
CASSALIGGI
WHO WERE WITH THEM
LATER WE WOULD FIND OUT THAT
WALSH 23
FIREFIGHTER SPINARD HAD ESCAPED AND FIREFIGHTER CASSALIGGI WAS TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL SHORTLY
BEFORE NUMBER ONE WORLD TRADE CENTER FELL
SO CONTINUED TO WALK SOUTH THINK
FIREFIGHTER OLSEN AND CAPTAIN TARDIO HAD STOPPED TO GET SOME WATER BUT KEPT ON WALKING SOUTH
BELIEVE AT VESEY STREET RAN INTO BATTALION CHIEF PFEIFER ASKED HIM IF HE WAS OKAY HE ASKED ME IF WAS THE SAME TOLD HIM THAT OF THE TWO MEMBERS THAT WE THOUGHT WE WERE MISSING
HE SAID THAT HE HAD SEEN FIREFIGHTER SPINARD SO
FIREFIGHTER POINT
CASSALIGGI WAS JUST MISSING AT THIS
CHIEF PFEIFER ASKED ME IF HAD SEEN HIS BROTHER WHO WAS THE LIEUTENANT OF ENGINE
COMPANY 33 SAID WOULD NOTIFY HIM IF RUN INTO HIM
THEN RAN INTO BATTALION CHIEF MCKAVANAGH AND HE ASKED ME IF WAS OKAY BECAUSE WAS SOMEWHAT DAZED AT THIS POINT HAD LOST ALL OF MY GEAR SO HE TOLD ME THAT

WHILE
POINT UNDERSTANDABLE
WALSH 24
THERE WAS TRIAGE STATION HERE AT LADDER COMPANY ENGINE SHOULD GO BACK THERE
HE ASKED ME FOR MY HANDY TALKY BECAUSE HE WAS WITH LIEUTENANT WIEBICKE WHO WAS ASSIGNED
TO LADDER COMPANY WE WERE COMING OFF DUTY AND HE COULD USE MY HANDY TALKY SO GAVE HIM MY HANDY TALKY
WENT DOWN AS FAR AS VESEY STREET AND IT WAS ALL BIG DUST CLOUD HEARD OVER OTHER
PEOPLES HANDY TALKIES THAT THERE WERE ELECTRICAL FIRES AND GAS FIRES IT WAS JUST DANGEROUS SITUATION DOWN THERE FELT AS THOUGH WAS INSECURE AT THIS
NOT IN FULL CONTROL OF MY FACULTIES
HERE
THEN THERE WERE OTHER BUILDING ON FIRE WE WOULD HEAR OVER THE HANDY TALKY
WHERE RAN INTO MY CHAUFFEUR FIREFIGHTER ONEILL WE RESTED FOR
ALSO RAN INTO LIEUTENANT BOB ROCCO

WALSH 25
BELIEVE HES ASSIGNED TO LADDER COMPANY HE CAME IN OFF DUTY
THINK WAS THERE UNTIL MAYBE 1200 OR SO AT HARRISON STREET AND WEST LIKE SAID
WAS WITH MY CHAUFFEUR GUESS THE OTHER MEMBERS OF MY COMPANY HAD ALREADY GONE BACK TO QUARTERS MYSELF AND FIREFIGHTER UNEILL WENT BACK TO QUARTERS WE WALKED BACK TO QUARTERS
BELIEVE GOT BACK TO QUARTERS ABOUT 1230 OR SO JUST RECONFIRMED THAT THE WHOLE HOUSE
HAD MADE IT THAT THE WHOLE HOUSE SURVIVED THERE WERE NUMEROUS OFF DUTY MEMBERS HERE
EVERYTHING WAS PRETTY MUCH UNDER CONTROL IT WAS ALREADY SET UP THIS TRIAGE CENTER
THERE WERE OTHER FIREMEN THAT DIDNT
RECOGNIZE THEY WOULD BE TAKING SOME OF THE GEAR FROM THE COMPANY GUESS THEY WERE CALLED IN
FROM HOME DIDNT HAVE ANY GEAR THEY KNEW THIS FIREHOUSE AND DECIDED TO TAKE WHATEVER GEAR THAT THEY COULD AND HEAD DOWN TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER THERE
WAS IMPRESSED AFTER THIS COLLAPSE HAD WHAT HAPPENED WHEN WAS ON MY WAY BACK KEPT PASSING BY TONS OF FIREFIGHTERS AND EMS

WALSH 26
PERSONNEL AND CONSTRUCTION WORKERS AND CIVILIANS IT REMINDED ME OF THE MINUTE MEN THESE PEOPLE
THAT DAY THEY WERE JUST HELPING OUT ANYWAY THATS BESIDES THE POINT
HAD GOTTEN BACK TO QUARTERS ABOUT 1230 WENT TO THE BACK ROOM AND JUST WATCHED CNN FOR WHILE THATS ALL
THATS ABOUT IT DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME
YEAH ONE QUESTION HAVE IS WHEN YOU LOOKED AT THE NORTH TOWER WHEN YOU COULD SEE IT
WAS THERE ANY INDICATION BEFORE IT WAS COMING DOWN DID YOU SEE CRACKS IN THE SIDE OR
ANYTHING
NO DIDNT
THERE WAS NO INDICATION THAT IT WAS GOING TO COLLAPSE BEFORE IT ACTUALLY STARTED COLLAPSING
NO BELIEVE THE HOLE THAT HAD SEEN IN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER DONT KNOW IF
SAID THIS INITIALLY BUT THE HOLE SEEMED ABOUT THREE STORIES HIGH THAT THIS PLANE HAD MADE
THREE STORY HOLE IN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
THE FIRE SEEMED TO BE CONFINED TO ABOUT

MAYBE ONE OR TWO FLOORS
IS THAT ALL
YEAH WAS THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE
FLOOR IT WAS THE NORTH SIDE THERE WAS HEAVY FIRE AND THE WEST SIDE THERE WAS HEAVY FIRE THROUGHOUT MAYBE TWO FLOORS OR SO COULDNT
TELL WHAT BECAUSE
BUILDING ONE
COULD SEE HAVE SAID
WAS ON THE SOUTH SIDE OR EAST SIDE NEVER GOT THERE
THERE WAS NEVER ANY SMOKE IN THE
NEVER INCURRED ANY SMOKE IN TOWER
HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION WHEN YOU
THE BUILDING BECAUSE LOT OF PEOPLE THEY DIDNT SEE THE BUILDING COULD
REALLY
WALSH 27
YOU SEE WHAT FLOORS PEOPLE WERE JUMPING FROM OR WAS THERE SMOKE COMING OUT OF ALL THE FLOORS
ABOVE THE FIRE
WHEN HAD GOTTEN THERE IM TALKING
ABOUT LATER ON LATER ON
JUST BEFORE IT COLLAPSED WAS THERE SMOKE COMING FROM ALL THE FLOORS
JUST CURIOSITY
TO ME IT LOOKED AS THOUGH EVERYTHING

WALSH 28
WAS CONFINED
TO THE TWO FLOORS
TO THE TWO FLOORS TO THE THREE FLOORS OR SO IVE SEEN PICTURES OF THE TRADE
CENTER ON FIRE AND RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS WHEN THE TWO OF THEM WERE STANDING IT SEEMED AS
THOUGH IT WAS HEAVY SMOKE THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE UPPER FLOORS
BUT WHEN HAD LOOKED AT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AFTER HAD GOTTEN OUT OF THE
IT DIDNT SEEM TO ME THAT THAT WAS THE CASE OBVIOUSLY IT WAS BUT IT DIDNT SEEM THE CASE TO ME JUST REMEMBERED SEEING TWO FLOORS OF HEAVY FIRE FROM THE NORTH SIDE OF WORLD TRADE CENTER ONE AND THE WEST SIDE OF WORLD TRADE
CENTER ONE ALL OF SUDDEN THINGS COLLAPSED ONE FLOOR AND THEN WITHIN SECOND OR SO IT JUST IMPLODED
THANK GOD YOU GOT OUT
MAYBE WAS OUT OF THE BUILDING MAYBE THREE MINUTES OR SO AND IT CAME DOWN DONT KNOW HOW THAT HAPPENED BUT IT JUST DID
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO SAY WHEN WAS IN THE STAIRWELL ONE OF
BUILDING

WALSH 29
THE FIREMEN FROM ANOTHER COMPANY HAD TOLD ME THAT THE SECOND TOWER WAS HIT WITH ANOTHER PLANE HE SAID THAT THE PENTAGON WAS HIT WITH ANOTHER
AND HE ALSO SAID THAT THE UNITED NATIONS WAS HIT WITH ANOTHER PLANE
WELL THROUGHOUT MY EXPERIENCE ON THE JOB WHENEVER YOU GET INTO HEAVY FIRE SITUATION YOU ALWAYS HEAR THESE RUMORS THAT NEVER TURN OUT TO BE TRUE THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS THE CASE BECAUSE HAD NEVER HEARD IT FROM ANYBODY ELSE THAT DAY THAT THE SECOND WORLD TRADE CENTER WAS HIT NOT OVER THE HANDY TALKY NOWHERE
DIDNT HEAR ANYTHING AND OF COURSE DID NOT SEE ANYTHING BECAUSE THE STAIRWELL
DIDNT HAVE ANY WINDOWS WHOEVER HAD RESCUED ON THE FLOORS THEY DIDNT HAVE ACCESS TO WINDOWS EITHER
THE STAIRWELL WAS PRETTY MUCH
SOUNDPROOF ANYWAY DIDNT KNOW HOW SOUNDPROOF IT WAS UNTIL COMPARED IT AGAINST THE TWO WORLD
TRADE CENTER FALLING ON US THAT WAS JUST RUMBLE IN THE BACKGROUND ALONG WITH THE VIBRATION
OF THE BUILDING SHAKING
BUT THOUGHT IT WAS LOCALIZED
PLANE

AND WE WOULDNT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE LOCALIZED COLLAPSE
VERY STURDY BUILDING
COLLAPSE EXCELLENT
NOBODY REALLY THOUGHT THAT THEY WOULD THANKS LOT BILL THAT WAS
THAT WAS LOT OF DETAIL
THE KIND YOU GUYS ARE LOOKING FOR
YEAH YEAH
CHIEF CONGIUSTA THE TIME IS 1240
AND THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW
WALSH 30
COLLAPSE AND THOUGHT THAT THE TRADE CENTER WAS
File No. 9110443
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER TYRONE JOHNSON
   Interview Date:  January 10, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
T. JOHNSON 2
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today is January
     11th, 2002.  The time is 10:45 hours.  This
     is Battalion Chief Frank Congiusta of the
     Safety Division of the New York City Fire
     Department.  I'm conducting an interview
     with the following individual.
          Please state your name.
          FIREFIGHTER JOHNSON:  My name is Tyrone
     Johnson, firefighter first grade, assigned
     to Ladder 24.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Of the New York City
     Fire Department.  We're at the quarters of
     Ladder 24, and this interview is regarding
     the events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Tyrone, would you please tell your
story.
     A.   Okay.  As the day started off, I came
to work early.  I was milling around house watch.
Maybe about quarter to we were in house watch
watching the TV.  We saw the hole in the building
of the north tower.  At that time we didn't know
what was going on, so we were just watching,
watching.  Then we saw the plane hit the south
tower.  After that we got dispatched to go down
T. JOHNSON 3
to the World Trade Center.
          I was chauffeur that day for Ladder 24.
We went down the West Side Highway.  I stopped
the rig maybe two blocks away from the command
post.  We got our gear together, walked to the
command post and waited for our orders.
          As we were waiting for our orders, our
company --
     Q.   This is the command post on West
Street?
     A.   On West Street, the command post on
West Street.  We passed up the Fire Commissioner
and Mayor Giuliani at the time.  At that time we
were standing outside for a little while.  It was
a bad sight because we were watching people
jumping out of the building.  At that time they
told everybody to go to the back of the command
post, which is a garage, to the rear of the
command post, and wait for our orders.
          Then maybe about five, ten minutes
later, we were ordered to go into the Marriott
Hotel.  At that time the company and three other
companies in front of us went inside the Marriott
Hotel.
T. JOHNSON 4
          Once we got inside the hotel, we met a
chief.  I don't remember what chief it was.  He
gave us the command just relax for a while before
you find out what you want us to do.
          (Interruption.)
     A.   At the time we were waiting for our
command to go to the Marriott.  We went to the
Marriott.  We got inside the lobby.  The chief
told us take your gear off, relax, until you find
out what you want us to do.
          Maybe 10 or 15 minutes later he gave us
the command put the gear on because we're getting
ready to head upstairs.  There were about three
companies in front of us.  We were the last
company to go up the steps.  Maybe about five
minutes into the process of going up the steps,
that's when the building collapsed on us.
          At that time we were thrown all around
the place.  Guys were laying around, covered up.
I was messed up and covered up.  Beams were
thrown.  Guys were injured.  Just maybe a quick
couple minutes -- it seems like a lifetime,
though -- a few minutes I uncovered myself, got a
hold of the rest of the guys in the company and
T. JOHNSON 5
we found our way out of the building.
          We just searched our way out.  We saw
the light, and we crawled out of the building.
     Q.   Did you have to crawl up?
     A.   We had to crawl down, maybe down half a
floor, and then crawl up to get out the door.
Once we got out of the building, we started
walking towards the water, which is on the West
Side Highway.  At that time walking maybe we ran
across other firemen milling around.
          Then we heard another rumble.  Then I
turned to my left and looked up.  It was the
second tower coming down.  After that we just
ran, ran, ran, ran.  A black cloud of smoke just
caught up to us while we were running towards the
water.  We got covered again.  I got knocked down
and covered again.  I got up and made my way to
the ambulance and I was taken to the hospital.
          Basically that's it.
     Q.   Is there anything else you want to say?
     A.   I'm trying to think.  It was like four
companies that were in the lobby with us at the
time.  I only noticed two companies, Ladder 24
and 22 Truck.  The other two companies, I didn't
T. JOHNSON 6
see them leave the building.
          But just to get out of the building, we
had to lime over the beams, crawl through holes,
all kinds of rubbish to get out of the building.
Half the hotel was gone.  Half the hotel was
gone.  We just happened to be lucky we were in
the half that didn't fall down.  We just climbed
out.
     Q.   Okay.  Thank you, Tyrone, for your
cooperation.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  It's 11:05, and this
     concludes the interview.
File No. 9110444
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER JAMES DUFFY
   Interview Date:  January 14, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
J. DUFFY 2
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today is January
     14th, 2002.  The time is 1150 hours.  This
     is Battalion Chief Frank Congiusta of the
     Safety Battalion of the New York City Fire
     Department.  I'm conducting an interview
     with the following individual.
          Please state your name.
          FIREFIGHTER DUFFY:  James Duffy.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Firefighter third of
     Ladder 24 of the New York City Fire
     Department.  We're in the quarters of Ladder
     24, and this interview is regarding the
     events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Jimmy, if you would just in your own
words say what happened that day.
     A.   We were in quarters when the first
plane hit.  People came out to the firehouse and
told us that a plane had crashed into the twin
towers.  So we turned the news on.
          The engine went down on the third
alarm.  We were still in quarters.  After the
engine went down, Captain Brethel and Father
Mike -- Father Mike came across the street, got
into his car, and Captain Brethel drove Father
J. DUFFY 3
Mychal Judge down to the Trade Center.
          About five minutes later we saw on TV
from quarters the second plane hit.  As soon as
the second plane hit, we went on the second fifth
alarm.
          Before this happened we put extra
Scotts into the rig.  We had a few of the depots.
We put all the Scott cylinders from the depot on
the truck.  We wound up going down West Street.
There was traffic on West Street, so we went on
the northbound side going south on West Street.
          We got down there.  We parked on West
Street about two blocks north of the towers.
     Q.   Just a second.
          (Interruption.)
     Q.   Okay.  Go ahead.
     A.   We parked on West Street about two
blocks north of the towers.  We pulled up.  As we
were pulling up, 35 truck was pulling up also.
They were getting off the rig at the same time we
were getting off our rig.
          We tried to walk to the command post,
which was across the street on the west side of
West Street, directly across from the towers.  We
J. DUFFY 4
were reporting there.  We report there.  We saw
different companies, my old company, 204.  I saw
101 Truck.  I saw Stackpole there.  He was at the
command post that day.
          I just saw jumpers.  I saw about 20 to
30 people jumping out from the upper floors and
hitting rigs and the pavement and the ground and
apparatuses, and the glass atrium of the Marriott
they were hitting.  I guess about five or six
jumpers jumped at a time.
          The chiefs were yelling to get more
truck companies.  So we sent our fire truck
companies in.  We were one of the truck companies
to go in.
     Q.   Where'd you go in?
     A.   We were told to report to the south
tower, but the only way to get to the south
tower -- you couldn't walk down Liberty Street to
get into the main entrance because of the jumpers
and the falling debris, so we had to go in
through the corner entrance of the Marriott,
which is on West and Liberty.  We went in there.
          Lieutenant McLaughlin was the officer.
He looked up and he was keeping an eye out for
J. DUFFY 5
debris, because we had all our equipment plus an
extra cylinder.  So he kept an eye out and he
said, "When I tell you guys to run, just run."
He was looking up, and we ran right into the
lobby.
          We got into the lobby, and there was
still a lot of Marriott employees still there.
They were getting huge things of water.  We drank
that.  We were just waiting our turn to go into
the south tower and report to the command post.
          We were waiting around.  122 Truck was
over there right next to us.  22 Truck was in the
lobby also.  Then we were just waiting to go into
the south tower.  As we were waiting, we looked
up and all I saw was -- I heard this huge noise,
and I saw hundreds and hundreds of people running
towards us.  They were running out of the south
tower to the Marriott, to the lobby.
          We just turned.  We started to like run
also.  We got about ten feet before getting blown
across the lobby.  We got blown across the lobby,
just got covered with debris.  Apparently after
we determined we were still alive, we got up and
couldn't see anything at all with the dust and
J. DUFFY 6
everything.
          One of the guys in the company, Tyrone
Johnson, I saw him right next to me.  So we
stayed together.  We were trying to get a way to
get out.  We didn't know if we were buried alive
or not.  We thought we were.
          We wound up finding -- a metal rolldown
gate came down where we came in, I think where we
came in.  We wound up pushing that up, and then
we wound up signaling -- I had a flashlight.  I
was signaling to people come this way.  I know
there were quite a few Marriott employees still
in the lobby, so we were trying to get all of the
employees plus the firemen.
          I remember hearing a mayday for Ladder
4.  The officer was giving a mayday.  He was
knocked unconscious, and he didn't know where he
was.
          After we wound up getting out, we had
to climb around this rubble.  We were sliding
down twisted metal beams and climbing up and just
getting through all this debris and trying to
help the Marriott employees as they were coming
out also with us.  That took a little bit of
J. DUFFY 7
time.  I got separated from Tyrone.
          Once we got to solid ground, I wound up
hooking up with another guy from my company,
Frank Ocello.  When we got on solid ground
outside, the second tower came down on us.
     Q.   Where were you when the second tower
came down?
     A.   We were out on solid ground, like right
around the area.  But when the second tower -- we
just ran.  We wound up running down towards
Battery Park City down by the water.  We just ran
west, and we wound up down by the water, down by
that marina down there.
          My mask was blown off me, so we wound
up -- there must have been about 50 firemen and
probably about 20 cops down there by the water.
We all ran into this restaurant.  There was a
huge cloud coming down to the water.  We wound up
going into this restaurant.  There were civilians
down there.  I remember there were people with
baby carriages and stuff like that.  We went into
the restaurant until the cloud cleared.
          We also asked for a roll call, and they
said there was a gas leak at Stuyvesant High
J. DUFFY 8
School, so they were closing that area off so we
really couldn't get back to the rig.  I guess we
were on the south side of the towers.  So we had
to go to the north side to get back to the rig.
          So we just did a roll call over the
radio, and we just wound up staying, helping.  We
wound up staying for many hours helping stretch
line off the fire boats to the rigs to help put
the fires out.  That's what we did.
          I guess all the other members -- four
other members went to the hospital.  Me and Frank
helped out and we wound up going back to the
fire.
          That's basically it.
     Q.   You don't want to add anything else?
     A.   No.  That's it.
     Q.   Do you know, the four other companies
that you were in the lobby with, did they all get
out?
     A.   No, no, 4 and 22 Truck got out that was
Frank...no, no.
     Q.   Jerry Riley?
     A.   Jerry Riley.  And 122 got out all right
because I stopped by that night.  I stopped by to
J. DUFFY 9
see these guys 'cause they were right next to us.
So they got out.  I think 25 Truck was with those
guys, and they didn't get out.
Q. Yeah.
     A.   They were supposed to report to Chief
Barbara  in the south tower.
     Q.   You said a lot of people were running
out of the south tower.  Any civilians?
     A.   Yeah, oh, yeah.
     Q.   Any firemen or all civilians?
     A.   I just remember people.  It's really
hard to say at this point.  I know there were
civilians.  I thought I remember mostly
civilians.  There could have been some firemen.
I don't know.
     Q.   When either tower came down, did you
have any advanced warning?
     A.   Oh, no.  I didn't know what it was when
we were inside.  I didn't know the building had
collapsed, actually.  I thought it was a bomb.  I
thought a bomb had gone off.  That's why I really
didn't know until after.
     Q.   Afterwards?
     A.   Yeah, that that's when it came down.  I
J. DUFFY 10
wasn't expecting that.  I thought it was a bomb
or something that went off.
     Q.   Glad you made it.
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   Thanks for the interview.  Again, what
we're going to do is we're going to try and put
everything together and figure out as best we can
what happened.
     A.   Yeah.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  It's 12:00, and
     that's the end of this interview.
File No. 9110445
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER THOMAS SPINARD
   Interview Date:  January 11, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
T. SPINARD 2
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today's date is 11
     January 2002.  The time is 1210 hours.  This
     is B.C. Frank Congiusta of the New York City
     Fire Department.  I am conducting an
     interview with the following individual.
          Please state your name.
          FIREFIGHTER SPINARD:  Thomas Spinard,
     Engine 7, firefighter first grade.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Of the New York City
     Fire Department.  We are at the quarters of
     Ladder 1.  This interview is regarding the
     events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Tom, if you would please say in your
own words what happened that day.
     A.   Well, I just came on that day during a
24.  I relieved the chauffeur probably about 8:20
or so.  We got a box on Church and Leonard of an
odor of gas.  So Engine 7 and Ladder 1, Battalion
1, responds.  It turned out to be a false alarm.
          As we were at the box, a plane passes
us overhead real low.  You could hear it; you
could feel it.  We turned around, and it just
impacted the building, building one.  With that,
everybody got on the rig.  We started driving.
T. SPINARD 3
          I drove over to Canal Street and made a
left on Greenwich, went down Greenwich, passed
right in front of seven, made a right.  When I
made the right, there was debris, windows, metal
and I guess plane debris right on the floor there
between seven and I guess that would be six.
     Q.   Yeah, that's six.
     A.   Where the foot bridge is, that little
overhead.  Yeah, I came down and made a right.
There's that little foot bridge that went across.
I went up West Street after.
     Q.   This is West Street over here.
     A.   Yeah, this is the foot bridge over
here.
     Q.   You were at the north; right?
     A.   We came down Greenwich.  There's that
little chrome foot bridge.  We went under that
and found our way over there.  We went up to West
Street, made a left, made a U turn.  I parked
right in front of one and hooked up.
          When we pulled up in front of one, we
saw the lobby windows were blown out already.
You could walk into the building without the
doors, just where the windows were.
T. SPINARD 4
     Q.   Wait a second.
          (Interruption.)
     A.   I went to West Street and made a left.
I made the U turn where you can make the U turn
in front of One World Trade Center.  I pulled up
right in front of the building.  I stayed out.  I
didn't go under the overhang that they had there.
I stayed out along the curb where the hydrant is.
          I hooked up to the hydrant, and I
started stretching back to the Siamese connection
on the corner of three, not far away, about three
lengths away or so; about two and a half lengths,
it was.  I started pumping.  We didn't wait for
anybody's signal.  We just started doing our own
thing then.
     Q.   Did you start doing high-pressure
pumping?
     A.   We're not a high-pressure pumper.
     Q.   Oh, you're not a high-pressure.  Okay.
     A.   No, Engine 7 is not a high-pressure
pumper.
          I believe we were the first engine
hooked up.  There was a rig right along the curb
there.  It was a ladder.  It was a tiller, so I
T. SPINARD 5
don't know, whichever one, maybe 6 or something.
I'm not sure.
          There was a guy laying in front of it,
a civilian.  We also had two civilians blown out
to the middle of West Street on the divider
there.  It's about two feet high with dirt and
grass they were sitting up there.  I don't think
they walked up there.  They were just blown up
there.  They were all women.  They were naked.
They were burnt up.  They were alive, but they
were -- maybe they made it; I don't know.  The
ambulance took them away.  The guy down here who
was laying down in front of the rig, the
ambulance took him away also.
          As I was hooking up, I had debris
falling, people, glass, file cabinets.  I saw a
file cabinet come out.  There were just chairs --
they were looking to break the windows with
anything, I guess.
          I couldn't call the captain.  I was
trying to call him the whole time.  I couldn't
get in touch with my captain on the radio.  I
estimate --
     Q.   When you were pumping, was water going
T. SPINARD 6
into the building?
     A.   Oh, definitely.
     Q.   Oh, yeah.
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   You don't know where it was coming out?
     A.   I don't know what was happening to it.
I was pumping at 200 pounds, and I was getting a
flow.  Everything was fine, yeah.  I had a good
hydrant.  I had, like I say, three lengths going
in.  It was right in front on the corner over
here, that little set back.  It was right there.
Yeah, no, it was definitely pumping.
          There was a lot of commotion going on.
After a while I'm standing out in the street over
here -- well, for a short while I was in the rig
right in front of the building.  Debris was
landing next to it.  Finally I said this is no
good.
          I had a proby with me -- I don't know
who he was -- and I had my control man, who went
into the building, his cylinder malfunctioned,
emptied right out in two seconds.  So I went to
high-pressure hose.  He came back out.  He went
to get another one, but at that point they had
T. SPINARD 7
taken the chauffeur's one off the rig already,
somebody.
          So now he couldn't even go back in
because he had no cylinders, no nothing.  I said,
"Joe, just stay with me."  That's what we did.  I
needed help anyway out there, so he stayed out
with me.  He watched my back while I hooked up,
actually.
     Q.   Because of the debris, yeah.
     A.   Because when you went to the building,
stuff was really coming down heavy, glass and
everything.  It was just unbelievable.  In fact,
even our line was getting little pin holes in it
from the glass.
     Q.   From the stuff coming down?
     A.   Yeah.  We tried protecting it, but
there wasn't much to cover it with.  Usually we
put a door or something.  But we didn't have
anything.
          There was a guard booth in the middle
of the street, a glass reinforced like
bulletproof.  I said, well, this is good for some
kind of a protection.  It was right in the middle
of West Street.  So we went in there for a minute
T. SPINARD 8
or two.  Then I started saying, you know what,
even debris is landing close to here.  Let's get
out of here.
          We walked over to the bridge, the --
     Q.   The north bridge.
     A.   Right here.  I'm not sure what you're
looking at.  The north bridge.
          While we were still in the middle of
the street, another plane comes in, makes a big
circle, comes around from like the Statue of
Liberty direction, and hits two.  We can't
believe that another one is coming in.  Joey got
on the radio, "Another plane just hit the second
tower."  I don't know if he said mayday or what,
but he yelled "Another plane hit the second
tower."
          At that point debris was flying all
over, the fireball, fuel was coming down,
fireballs were coming down.  We just ran west and
north.  Then after a minute it calmed down a
little bit, so we started to come back.  We ran
over to the rig, checked it to make sure it's
still pumping okay and the hydrant's still good,
we're still getting good pressure.  Everything
T. SPINARD 9
was fine with that.
          We're still around there.  The people
who were removed at this point by the ambulance
were in the street.  I saw three people down
there.  They were all removed.
          I don't know what time later a loud
rumble -- it sounded like an explosion.  We
thought it was a bomb.  We ran under the bridge,
me, Joe Cassaliggi and two police officers; I
think one police officer and one Secret Service.
We ran under the bridge.  There's a column there,
over here, right on the sidewalk, a big six foot
round masonry column.
          We get behind that, and number two
tower comes down and debris comes right around
us.  Heavy debris is hitting the front of the
column, light debris is make it around, dust and
little particles, and then the dust cloud hits
us.  Then it got real hot.  It felt like it was
going to light up almost.
          After a few minutes, we get up.
Everybody's okay.  We make our way into the
American Express tower.  We come out the back of
the tower.  They put us in an ambulance.  They
T. SPINARD 10
start giving us oxygen, because we were all -- we
couldn't even walk we were in such bad shape.
          We were in the ambulance for a little
while.  They said we have to get out and evacuate
because the other tower's coming down.  We get
out.  We start running north on North End Avenue.
We make it to the construction trailer, maybe
over here someplace, one of these blocks.  I
think it was this block.  The second tower,
number one tower, comes down.
          Now with this I'm still trying to call
my captain.  I can't get in touch with him.  We
only had one radio, because one radio we gave to
3 Truck.  Being that me and Joe were together --
the control man radio, he took a radio, because
we didn't need it, and we gave it to them.  That
was before anything came down.  We were trying to
call Engine 7.  We never got an answer from them
at all.
          After the second one, they took Joe
away in an ambulance.  I said, well, I'm not too
bad.  I'll stay around.  I walked back just to
see if I could pull anybody out or put fires out
or whatever.  There were cars burning in the
T. SPINARD 11
parking lots over here, big paper debris fires
going on all over the place.
          That was it.
     Q.   I've just got to ask you a couple of
things.  Did you look at the north tower before
it collapsed?
     A.   Did I look at the north tower before it
collapsed?  I looked -- no, because once number
two came down, I couldn't see anything.
     Q.   You couldn't see anything.  Okay.  I
thought maybe you could see.
     A.   I'm looking up at the fire and
thinking, wow, we're going to have a tough job
there and it will probably burn for days, but I
never thought it would come down.  It did.
     Q.   Is there anything else you want to add?
     A.   I didn't go into the lobby, but I could
see into the lobby.  It seemed like there were
people burnt.  Guys were saying there were people
burnt on the elevator, people burnt in the lobby.
I heard them say there was marble blown off the
walls.  I imagine the concussion came down the
elevator shaft or something and blew everything
out.
T. SPINARD 12
          We were pumping -- we helped 55 Engine
who were also in the street.  They connected to a
hydrant over here across the street.  We
connected to that and also helped them get a line
in.  I think there's one over here someplace too.
Or 6 Engine maybe had it.
     Q.   Yeah, 6 Engine said they were there.
     A.   Yeah, they were right under the bridge;
right?
Q. Yeah.
     A.   So we helped them.  And Joe Torrillo
was with us too.
          That's it.  It came down so fast, you
couldn't even run.  It was about seven or eight
seconds.  You heard that loud rumble.  I looked
up, but I still didn't see it come down.  It
looked like it got fat like a big clump.  It
wasn't a fire cloud; it was like another cloud
around it.  I just started running.  I said,
"Come on, Joe.  This way."  We ran to that bridge
and we huddled, and that's it, it came down right
around us.
          Any questions?
     Q.   I was just saying, my brother-in-law,
T. SPINARD 13
he has a picture taken from a helicopter after
Two World Trade fell.  This whole area was
engulfed, all the way over to the rivers.
     A.   You couldn't see.
     Q.   With dust and dust.  I don't know how
anybody could have possibly seen what was going
on.  I mean, the cloud was just -- you could see
it right down the street.  You could see the top
of Seven World Trade in the picture.  It's
probably one of the famous pictures now that I
remember.  I'm almost sure it's before number one
fell.
     A.   Because I thought the first 10 or 20
floors, I didn't think the whole thing -- I'm
looking at it, and I don't see it missing,
because of the cloud.  It's maybe 10 floors that
collapsed or just the roof.  I didn't think the
whole thing came down.  I still didn't believe
it.
          Then when I got far away from it, I
looked back and said, oh, shit, I see smoke but I
don't see any kind of building over there.  I
went like, whatever, two blocks.  I walked up to
Murray Street, and you could see a little better
T. SPINARD 14
when you're far away than when you're right under
it.
          But the visibility was zero.  It was
like a black cloud.  We couldn't even find our
way to the doorway here.  There was a lieutenant
that saw us -- that was behind the glass.  He saw
us run there as it came down.  Then when it
settled down, he yelled, "Hey you guys.  Over
here, over here," because we couldn't find our
way.  Between all this shit that had piled around
over here around the column, because the shit was
just flying, like tin, like mostly lightweight
stuff.  None of the heavy beams came that far.
They landed around over here.
          Then I thought it was gonna light up.
That's how hot it got.
     Q.   You figure everything was heated from
the fire.
     A.   I'm figuring, shit, now I'm going to
burn to death.  I lived with this, and I'm going
to burn.  It didn't get that bad.  We got out of
there, and they worked on us and that was it.
          I met up with a chauffeur from 55
Engine.  We took him to a trailer here,
T. SPINARD 15
construction trailer, cleaned him up.  I forget
his name.  But his eyes were in real bad shape.
He wore glasses.  I don't remember if he left
them on or off, but he was terrible.  He couldn't
see.  Nobody could see, but he was really bad.
          The next day I went up to St. Vincent's
Hospital.  They said a guy had a cornea
transplant.  It wasn't him.  I think it was a
civilian.  But somebody that had debris in his
eyes.
     Q.   I know I couldn't open my eyes the next
day.  My wife had to put water on them.
     A.   I went home that night.  The next day
they sent me back.  I was on 90 West Street,
Engine 7, Ladder 1, putting out fires on the
seventh, eighth and ninth floor for about three
or four hours with nothing, no cylinders or
nothing.  You just didn't have them.
     Q.   Part of that dust might have been
pulverized glass that nobody --
     A.   Yeah, right, it could have been
pulverized glass.  Everything was disintegrated.
You know what the doc said?  The cement is
actually, it's because there is lye in it.
T. SPINARD 16
That's rough stuff.  When I went to my doctor, he
said, "You may develop asthma.  Right now you're
okay, but your lungs are like borderline."
Because I was failing the test that we give.  I
went to see a doctor at NYU, like an hour-long
test, and I just passed it.
     Q.   What's it called?
     A.   It was medication.
     Q.   Like the methyl-something test?
     A.   They gave me a test.  Then they
medicated me, and I had to wait 15 minutes and
then take the whole test over again.  But it
wasn't like a cold air thing; it was some kind of
medication.
Q. Wheezing.
     A.   The guy medicates you right then and
there.  You inhale it, you wait 15 minutes.
     Q.   Yes.  I think they try and bring on --
     A.   You take it again --
     Q.   It stops you breathing, though.  It
tries to make you labor in breathing?
     A.   No, it didn't do that.  I think it
tries to open it up, and it sees the difference,
tries to compare the difference between the first
T. SPINARD 17
and the second test.  I was out like five weeks
medical leave.  I feel better now, but I still
keep wheezing.  I'm still taking the inhaler.
          (Interruption.)
     Q.   Thank you for your cooperation, Tommy.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  That's the end of the
     interview.  It is now 1325.

FILE NO 9110446
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER MICHAEL YAREMBINSKY INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 14 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

YAREMBINSKY
CHIEF CONGIUSTA TODAYS DATE IS JARIUTARY 14TH 2002 THE TIME LI 1215 IIOUR
THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF FRANK CONGIUSTA OF THE SAFETY BATTALION OF THE NEW YORK CITY
FIRE DEPARTMENT IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME
FIREFIGHTER YAREMBINSKY MIKE
YAREMBINSKY
CHIEF CONGIUSTA MIKE IS FIREFIGHTER
FIRST CLASS ASSIGNED TO ENGINE OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT WE ARE AT THE
QUARTERS OF ENGINE THIS INTERVIEW IS
REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
MIKE IF YOU COULD PLEASE TELL YOUR STORY IN YOUR OWN WORDS
WE GOT THE BOX AT 900 ENGINE GOT ON THE FIFTH ALARM WE TOOK THE WEST
ASSIGNED
SIDE HIGHWAY TO GET DOWN TO THE TRADE CENTER AND ON THE WAY DOWN WE SAW SMOKE COMING OUT OF BOTH BUILDINGS
AT ONE POINT AS WE WERE GETTING CLOSER THE SMOKE LOOKED LIKE IT WAS LIGHTENING UP WE

YAREMBINSKY
THOUGHT THAT THEY WERE GETTING SOME WATER ON THE FIRE BUTT BY THE TIME WE HAD ARRIVED IT HAD
DARKENED DOWN AGAIN
WE PARKED THE CAR ON THE WEST SIDE
HIGHWAY DONT KNOW THE STREET BUT BELIEVE ITS THE BLOCK NORTH OF THE TRADE CENTER ON THE
WEST SIDE HIGHWAY THE NORTH TOWER EACH MEMBER
TOOK FOLD UP AND CYLINDER AND WE STARTED
APPROACHING THE BUILDING
WE ENTERED THE BUILDING ON THE WEST
SIDE DOORWAY WE GOT INTO THE LOBBY THATS THE NORTH TOWER
NORTH TOWER
WHEN WE GOT IN THE LOBBY THE FIRST THING WE SAW OR THAT SAW WAS THERE WAS BODY COVERED UP IN THE LOBBY DEAD BODY WE WALKED OVER TO THE COMMAND POST THE COMMAND POST WAS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING IN THE LOBBY MY OFFICER WENT OVER TO THE CHIEF AND FOUND OUT OUR ASSIGNMENT DONT KNOW WHAT CHIEF
DONT KNOW WHAT BATTALION
THE ASSIGNMENT WAS TO GO WITH 16 ENGINE TO THE 70TH FLOOR TO OPERATE LINE WE TOOK THE
STAIRWELL UP AND WE WERE MAKING OUR WAY UP

YAREMBINSKY
THERE WERE LOT OF CIVILIANS COMING DOWN THE CIVILIARI WERE HANDING WATER ARID THILI ARID THAT THE CIVILIANS WERE VERY CALM
SO WE CONTINUED UP AT ABOUT THE 11TH FLOOR WE STOPPED TO TAKE BREAK WE WERE MAYBE ON ONE MINUTE BREAK WE STOPPED ON THE 11TH IN THE HALLWAY OUT OF THE STAIRWELL THEN AFTER ABOUT MINUTE OR TWO WE DECIDED TO KEEP GOING UP
WHEN WE GOT TO 22 WE HEARD THERE WAS PORT AUTHORITY COMMAND POST ON 22 SO WE WERE STOPPED THERE MY OFFICER WANTED TO FIND OUT SOME INFORMATION MY OFFICER LIEUTENANT ANDY DESPERITO HE WENT OVER TO THE COMMAND POST
WE NOTICED IN THE HALLWAY THAT THE ELEVATOR SHAFT HAD BEEN BLOWN OUT THERE WAS
NOTHING THERE NO DOORS NO FRAMING NOTHING WHEN YOU LOOKED DOWN ALL YOU SAW WAS THE CABLES
FOR THE ELEVATOR AND THE BRICK WORK THAT WAS SURROUNDING
WAS IT
NO BURNING NO SMOKE COMING OUT OF IT WHEN HE CAME BACK ON HIS WAY BACK WHEN
HE WAS WALKING TOWARDS US THE ENTIRE BUILDING
BURNING

YAREMBINSKY
STARTED TO SHAKE THIS IS WHEN WE WERE ON THE
22ND FLOOR IN THE HALLWAY INITIALLY WE TLIOUTGLIT THAT OUR BUILDING WAS COMING DOWN OR SOME PART OF IT WAS COLLAPSING WHAT WE FOUND OUT RIGHT AFTER THAT WAS THAT THE SOUTH TOWER HAD JUST COME DOWN
SO THE LIGHTS WENT OUT IN THE HALLWAY
GUESS THE EMERGENCY LIGHTING STAYED LIT IN THE STAIRWELL REMEMBER THAT THE CIVILIANS AT THAT
TIME WERE BECOMING LESS AND LESS SO WE DECIDED IT WAS TIME TO GO WE WERE GOING TO CONTINUE UP TO THE 70TH FLOOR
SO AT THAT POINT WE HAD SOME GUYS WHO HAD DROPPED THEIR MASKS AND STUFF SO WE WERE PUTTING ALL OUR STUFF BACK ON WE WERE TOTALLY GEARED UP GETTING READY TO GO BACK UP WHEN
PORT AUTHORITY MAN CAME OVER TO US HE MUST HAVE BEEN AN ADMINISTRATOR BECAUSE HE HAD SUIT AND TIE ON HE TOLD US THAT THE SOUTH TOWER HAD
FELL THAT THIS WAS TERRORIST ACTION AND THAT WE SHOULD LEAVE THE BUILDING
WE WERE STILL GOING TO GO UP BECAUSE WE WERE WAITING FOR OUR OWN ORDER FROM THE
DEPARTMENT TO GO DOWN OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY
BE MAYBE LESS THAN MINUTE AFTER HE TOLD US WE

YAREMBINSKY
SHOULD EVACUATE WE GOT THE ORDER FROM THE DEPARTUERIT TIILI WA PER MY ILEUTTERIARIT
TELLING US
SO WE DECIDED TO GO DOWN WE STARTED
TO GO DOWN IT SEEMED LIKE 16 ENGINE WAS IN
FRONT OF US AND ME AND LIEUTENANT DESPERITO WERE IN THE BACK OF ENGINE IT WAS LIKE ENGINE 16 IN FRONT AND THEN THE REST OF THE GUYS AND THEN ME AND THE LIEUTENANT
AT THIS POINT ON OUR WAY DOWN THERE
WERE LIKE NO CIVILIANS IN THE STAIRWELL SAW
MAYBE COUPLE OF STRAGGLERS THERE WERE TWO
GUYS ASKED THEM HOW THEY WERE DOING THEY HAD HANDKERCHIEFS OVER THEIR MOUTHS THEY SAID
THEY WERE FINE THEY WERE WALKING DOWN CALMLY THOSE WERE THE ONLY TWO SAW UNTIL WE
GOT TO THE SIXTH FLOOR WHEN ME AND THE LIEUTENANT RAN INTO WHO WE THINK WAS JOSEPHINE WHICH IS WHO ENDED UP WITH TRUCK DOWN THERE THAT WE FOUND
OUT LATER HE TOLD ME HES GOING TO LEND HAND
DONT REMEMBER TRUCK BEING THERE REMEMBER
TWO PORT AUTHORITY POLICE BEING THERE THIS IS APPROXIMATELY THE SIXTH OR THE SEVENTH FLOOR
HE SAID HES GOING TO LEND HAND HE

YAREMBINSKY
TOLD ME GO DOWN GET THE GUYS TOGETHER MOVE AWAY FROM THE BUILDING ARID HED BE RIGHT DOWN SO
CONTINUED DOWN HE STAYED THERE GOT DOWN TO THE LOBBY
WHEN GOT DOWN TO THE LOBBY NOTICED ALL THE WINDOWS HAD BEEN BLOWN OUT AND THERE WAS
DUST ALL OVER THE FLOOR STILL NOT REALIZING THAT WHEN THEY SAID THAT THE SOUTH TOWER HAD FELL
THEY MEANT THE WHOLE BUILDING NOBODY REALLY COMPREHENDED THAT AT THAT POINT
REMEMBER LOOKING OUT TO THE STREET AND THERE WAS NOBODY OUT THERE REALLY
COULDNT FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON AT THAT
POINT WHY THERE WAS NOBODY THERE SAID THIS IS BIG OPERATION THERE SHOULD BE MORE RIGS OUTSIDE THIS AND THAT
WENT OVER HAD LEFT THE FOLD UP BECAUSE WE DECIDED ONLY EVERY SECOND MAN BETWEEN
THE TWO COMPANIES WAS GOING TO TAKE FOLD UP
AND THE OTHER GUYS WOULD TAKE CYLINDERS WHEN WE GOT TO THE 11TH THE GUYS THAT HAD THE CYLINDERS TOOK FOLD UPS WE TRADED SO HAD LEFT MY
FOLD UP DOWN BY THE COMMAND POST
WENT PICKED UP MY FOLD UP SAW

YAREMBINSKY
ONE OF APPROXIMATE MEMBERS OF MY COMPANY KIRK LONG SAID KIRK COME ON WEVE GOT TO GO
WEVE GOT TO GO OUT OF THE BUILDING THE WINDOWS WERE ALL BLOWN OUT SO YOU COULD WALK
THROUGH THE FRAME WE EXITED THE BUILDING OUT OF THE NORTHWEST POINT OF THE NORTH TOWER AND
STARTED WALKING DIAGONALLY TOWARDS WHERE OUR RIG WAS
ON THE WAY TO THE RIG WE SAW THE OTHER TWO GUYS FROM OUR COMPANY THEY WERE ALREADY OUTSIDE WE SAID COME ON GUYS WE HAVE TO STICK TOGETHER WE GOT OVER TO THE RIG
THREW MY STUFF UP IN THE RIG MY MASK AND
THREW THE FOLD UP ON THE RIG
REMEMBER LOOKING UP AND SEEING NUMEROUS JUMPERS ONE RIGHT AFTER ANOTHER
MAYBE WANTED TO GO BACK BUT IT WAS CRAZY
THING YOURE VERY HELPLESS
SO WE JUST CONTINUED TO WALK AWAY FROM
THE BUILDING ON THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY NORTH
DONT KNOW HOW MUCH TIME ELAPSED BUT WOULD SAY BETWEEN ONE AND THREE MINUTES ITS HARD TO JUDGE HOW MUCH TIME ELAPSED WHEN SOMEBODY YELLED OUT ITS GOING LOOKED UP AND SAW

YAREMBINSKY
THE BUILDING STARTED TO COME DOWN
CANT TELL YOU WHAT STREET WAS ON
REMEMBER RUNNING NORTH ON THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY KIND OF DIAGONALLY TOWARDS THE WATER
TURNED THE CORNER AS THE DUST WAS STARTING TO HIT
ME AND GOT MYSELF INTO BUILDING
AT THAT POINT ALL OF US HAD SPLIT
UP DIDNT KNOW WHERE ANYBODY ELSE WAS WAS
THERE WAS BUNCH OF FIREMEN THAT WENT INTO THAT BUILDING ALSO NONE OF MY GUYS THOUGH
LOOKING
LOOKED OUTSIDE IT WAS CAME IN WITH MASK HE
COUPLE MINUTES PASSED THE DUST STARTED TO SETTLE TOOK THE MASK OFF DROPPED IT IN THE STREET AND COMMENCED TO WALK UP AND
DOWN THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY FROM CHAMBERS TO THE
SITE AND CANT TELL YOU HOW MANY TIMES
LOOKING FOR THE GUYS IN MY COMPANY IT HAD BE AT LEAST 45 MINUTES PASSED ME GOING BACK AND FORTH
LOOKING FOR GUYS ASKING PEOPLE HAVE YOU SEEN ANYBODY FROM ENAINE BECAUSE DIDNT KNOW
THAT FIREMAN
PUT IT
WANTED TO LOOK FOR THE REST OF THE GUYS IN MY
COMPANY
PITCH
TOOK IT OFF
ON WENT OUTSIDE
AFTER BLACK

YAREMBINSKY 10
WHAT HAPPENED
FINALLY DID RUN INTO TWO GUYS FROM
LADDER 24 HUNG OUT WITH THEM FOR LITTLE WHILE ASKED THEM IF THEY SAW ANYBODY THEY SAID NO ACTUALLY THEY SAID THE CHAUFFEUR JOE FALCO FROM OUR COMPANY GOT HURT THEY PUT HIM
ON BOAT TO NEW JERSEY SO KNEW HE WAS OKAY GUESS MAYBE ANOTHER HALT HOUR PASSED
AND FINALLY RAN INTO THE GUYS FROM MY COMPANY WANTED TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED TO THE
LIEUTENANT IT WAS STILL UP IN THE AIR WE DIDNT KNOW IF HE MADE IT OR NOT
WE STARTED WALKING BACK TO THE SITE WITH ANOTHER FIREMAN FROM 12 TRUCK AND WE WERE
GOING TO HELP OUT DOWN THERE AT THE SITE THIS AND THAT WE WERE ABOUT BLOCK AWAY FROM THE SITE WHEN SOMEBODY SAID SOMEONE HAD FOUND LIEUTENANT
DESPERITO
SO ASKED YOU FOUND HIM WHERE IS
HE IS HE ALL RIGHT HE SAID NO IM SORRY HE DIDNT MAKE IT SAID ARE YOU SURE ITS HIM HE SAID YEAH SAID DESCRIBE HIM HE DESCRIBED HIM TO SO KNEW IT WAS HIM
WHERE DID THEY FIND HIM

BECAUSE HEARD COUPLE OF THAT WAS LITTLE IMPACT SO WE TOOK LITTLE
DIFFERENT BIT OF AN BREATHER
THINGS EMOTIONAL
YAREMBINSKY 11
THEY FOUND HIM IN BELIEVE IT WAS THE HOTEL NEXT TO THE TRADE CENTER CANT TELL YOU
EXACTLY BECAUSE DIDNT SEE WHERE THEY FOUND HIM DONT KNOW WHERE THEY FOUND HIM BECAUSE
THEY HAD ALREADY PULLED HIM OUT BY THAT POINT THEY SAID THEY FOUND HIM IN HALLWAY IN THE
HOTEL OR NEAR STAIRWELL IN THE HOTEL
BUT HAD SPOKEN TO PORT AUTHORITY GUY THAT WAS WITH ANDY THE WHOLE WAY DOWN HE
SAID THAT THEY WERE TRYING TO GET OUT THE MEZZANINE LEVEL THE OVERPASS THAT LEADS TO THE
FINANCIAL CENTER THEY SAID THATS WHEN THE BUILDING STARTED COMING DOWN HE SAID THEY WERE
ABOUT TEN FEET APART THIS GUY APPARENTLY MADE IT AND LIEUTENANT DESPERITO DID NOT
DONT KNOW IF THEY WERE SAYING THEY FOUND HIM IN THAT SECTION OF OVERPASS OR MAYBE HE
GOT BLOWN IN THROUGH WINDOW TO HOTEL REALLY DONT KNOW EXACTLY WHERE HE ENDED UP
THEN WE SAID OKAY LETS SEE IF WE CAN HELP OUT DOWN
THERE WE STARTED WALKINA OVER CLOSER AND THEN

YAREMBINSKY 12
SOMEBODY ELSE SAID FATHER MIKE DIDNT MAKE IT
WE STUCK AROUND LITTLE BIT
LONGER
AND WE JUST LOOKED FOR COUPLE OF PEOPLE THAT WE
KNEW WE TALKED TO FEW PEOPLE WE WENT OVER TO CHIET NOW THIS IS LOT OT TIME THAT HAD ELAPSED WE MIGHT NOT HAVE LEFT THERE UNTIL
ABOUT 200 IN THE AFTERNOON WE WERE WALKING AROUND AND WE TOLD THE CHIEF THAT WE WERE GOING TO LEAVE AND GO BACK TO QUARTERS AND WE NEVER CAME BACK
THATS IT THATS IT
ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO SAY
NOTHING ELSE THAT CAN RECALL RIGHT NOW THATS PRETTY MUCH THE WHOLE STORY
THATS PRETTY INTERESTING VERY GOOD
OKAY THANKS LOT FOR YOUR COOPERATION MIKE YOURE WELCOME
CHIEF CONGIUSTA ITS 1245 AND THATS THE END OF THIS INTERVIEW

FILE NO 9110447
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW LIEUTENANT JAMES MCGLYNN
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

MCGLYNN
CHIEF MALKIN TODAY IS JANUARY 10TH 2002 THE TIME IS 928 PM THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF MALKIN OF THE SAFETY BATTALION IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH LIEUTENANT JAMES MCGLYNN OF ENGINE 39
REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH THERES NOBODY ELSE IN THE ROOM AND WERE
IN THE OTTICE OT ENGINE IY WHAT TOLLOWS IS THE INTERVIEW
WAS IN THIS OFFICE WHEN IT CAME OVER THE PA SYSTEM THAT THERE WAS REPORT THAT
PLANE HIT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER SO TURNED UP THE VOLUME ON THE DEPARTMENT RADIO AND TURNED THE
TV ON YOU COULD SEE FROM THE SILHOUETTE THAT ITS OBVIOUS THAT FAIRLY LARGE SIZE PLANE HAS
HIT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER THE NORTH TOWER AND
THAT IT WAS OBVIOUSLY GOING TO BE MAJOR FIRE DISASTER HUGE LOSS OF LIFE
PRETTY MUCH ABOUT THE SAME TIME OVER THE DEPARTMENT RADIO HEARD AN OFFICER GIVING REPORT TO THE DISPATCHER TO SEND ALL AVAILABLE UNITS SEND AS MANY EMS AMBULANCES THAT THEY COULD THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE MAJOR LOSS OF LIFE

MCGLYNN
PRETTY MUCH ABOUT THAT TIME WE WERE DISPATCHED ON THE THIRD ALARM WITH THE HIGH RISE
RIG THE HIGH RISE RIG IS AN ADDITIONAL
APPARATUS THAT WE HAVE IN QUARTERS ITS MAINLY
USED TO SUPPORT HIGH RISE FIRES IT PROVIDES DIFFERENT TOOLS SUCH AS FANS ELECTRICAL
GENERATORS HOUR CYLINDERS THINGS OF THAT NATURE
WE LEFT HERE PRETTY MUCH IMMEDIATELY WE RESPONDED WITH FIVE GUYS INSTEAD OF FOUR IT
WAS RIGHT AT THE CHANGE OF TOURS ONE OF THE GUYS WAS AN EXPERIENCED CHAUFFEUR AND HE SAID HE WANTED TO TAKE THE RUN IN WANTED AN EXTRA GUY
TO DRIVE THE HIGH RISE RIG WHO HAD SOME EXPERIENCE HE SAID HE WANTED TO TAKE THE RUN
AND SAID FINE LETS GO
SO RESPONDED WITH FIVE GUYS WE
HEADED DOWN SECOND AVENUE CAN JUST REMEMBER LOOKING UP AND SEEING THE SMOKE COMING FROM THE
NORTH TOWER LARGE SMOKE BILLOWING OUT HEAVY HEAVY THICK SMOKE SO WE KNEW OBVIOUSLY THAT WE WERE GOING TO HAVE OUR HANDS FULL
ONE THING NOTICED WAS THE TRAFFIC WAS FOR SOME REASON VERY LIAHT WE WENT DOWN ON

IN SMOKE
MCGLYNN
HOUSTON STREET WOULD SAY WITHIN FROM HERE THIS ON 67TH STREET WE WERE ON HOUSTON STREET SOMEWHERE IN THE AREA OF EIGHT OR NINE MINUTES AND THIS IS AT RUSH HOUR IT CAN TAKE YOU THAT MUCH TIME TO GO AROUND THE BLOCK AT THIS TIME THIS PARTICULAR DAY FOR SOME REASON OR OTHER TRAFFIC WAS LIGHT
WE WERE HEADING ACROSS HOUSTON BETORE WE MADE THE LEFT ON WEST END AVENUE AT THAT TIME SAW THE PLUME OF HEAVY FIRE ENGULF THE
NORTH TOWER WHAT LOOKED LIKE THE NORTH TOWER
THOUGHT IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN SECONDARY EXPLOSION IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN BOMB DIDNT KNOW WHAT IT
WAS IT TURNED OUT LATER THAT FOUND OUT THAT THAT WAS THE SECOND TOWER BEING HIT
FROM MY APPROACH THEY BOTH WERE KIND
OF LINED UP SO YOU COULDNT DISTINGUISH ONE FROM
THE OTHER ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU JUST SAW THE TOP 20 FLOORS OR SO THAT WERE JUST TOTALLY ENGULFED
WE PULLED UP WE ARRIVED WOULD SAY
PROBABLY FROM HERE TO THERE IN 845 WE WERE DISPATCHED
WERE DOWN THERE RIAHT AROUND
IT ORIGINALLY CAME AT 852 THINK WE
LITTLE AFTER

MCGLYNN
BECAUSE WE WERE THERE MAYBE MINUTE AFTER THE SECOND PLANE HIT
SAW CHIEF GANCI AND HIS AIDE AS GOT OFF THE RIG HIS AIDE SAID WATCH OUT THERE
ARE PEOPLE JUMPING WE PULLED UP RIGHT ALONG SIDE THE NORTH TOWER ON WEST END AVENUE THE
AIDE SAID WATCH OUT PEOPLE ARE JUMPING
JUST SAID OKAY
AT THAT POINT DECIDED TO WALK UNDER
PEDESTRIAN CROSSWALK NOW FROM THIS MAP IT LOOKS LIKE ITS OVER HERE
STREET
THATS THE NORTH WALK BRIDGE ON WEST
RIGHT THERES SECOND ONE DOWN HERE AT LIBERTY STREET
TO MY KNOWLEDGE THERES ONE MUCH
CLOSER HERE BUT MAYBE IM MISTAKEN MAYBE THE MAP IS OFF BUT TO MY KNOWLEDGE ITS MUCH
CLOSER HERE BECAUSE REMEMBER WALKING UNDER THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE
AS WE WERE WALKING WAS WATCHING OUT FOR PEOPLE JUMPING BECAUSE WE GOT RIGHT ABOUT
HERE AND HAD PEOPLE STOP AND WAIT SAID OKAY LET ME TAKE LOOK UP AND SEE IF SEE

ANYBODY COMING DOWN BEFORE WE RAN FROM THIS
POINT INTO THE BUILDING
WHERE DID YOU PARK THE RIG NOW
AVENUE IS
THE RIG WAS ON WEST END AVENUE THIS IS WEST STREET AND WEST END
WAY OVER HERE
MCGLYNN
IM
SO YOU WERE ON WEST STREET
SORRY
WEST STREET
YOU WERE NEAR THE NORTH WALK BRIDGE
YEAH
SOMEPLACE
YEAH
WE BASICALLY REPORTED TO THE NORTH
TOWER WITH MY GUYS EVERYBODY HAD THEIR ROLLUPS AN EXTRA CYLINDER THE STANDPIPE KIT WE
REPORTED INTO THE COMMAND STATION THERE AS SOON AS WE WALKED IN ONE OF GUESS THE AIDES SAID START WALKING UP THE STAIRWELL WITH YOUR MEN AND TEAM UP WITH ENGINE 65
WE WALKED ALL THE WAY UP WE STARTED
WALKING UP AND STOPPING WOULD SAY ABOUT EVERY TEN FLOORS OR SO BECAUSE OF GETTING TIRED
SAID THERES NO SENSE GETTING ALL THE WAY UP THERE AND BEINA EXHAUSTED SO WE WERE STOPPINA

MCGLYNN
ABOUT EVERY TEN FLOORS TO REGROUP PASSING PEOPLE WHO WERE EVACUATING AT THAT TIME CIVILIANS
WE MADE IT UP TO APPROXIMATELY
BELIEVE IT WAS THE 31ST FLOOR ON THE 31ST FLOOR
WE FELT THE BUILDING BEGAN TO SHAKE IT APPEARED THAT THAT BUILDING WAS STARTING TO COME DOWN
YOUR BUILDING
THE NORTH TOWER
RIGHT

DEFINITELY TO HIM
UPSET DONT KNOW WHATEVER HAPPENED DONT KNOW IF HE EVER MADE IT OUT
MCGLYNN
HE DIDNT APPEAR TO BE EXCITED
THE BUILDING WAS SHAKING AT THIS POINT SO BELIEVE HE WAS CRYING BUT HE WAS
AFTER THE BUILDING STOPPED SHAKING THERE HAPPENED TO BE CHIEF THERE ASKED THE CHIET WHATS GOING ON THERE WERE DITTERENT
THINGS BEING SAID AMONG THE GUYS LIKE ONE GUY FROM RESCUE WAS SAYING HE WAS THINKING IT WAS
JUST THE FACADE OF THE BUILDING THAT NOTHING WAS
GOING TO HAPPEN TO THIS BUILDING THAT WE WERE SAFE SAID WELL HOPE THATS IT
IT FELT KIND OF LIKE IT WASNT IMMEDIATELY RIGHT AROUND YOU THE FIRE WAS ON THE 80TH FLOOR WE WERE ON THE 31ST ANY TIME IVE HEARD OF COLLAPSE IT WAS NEVER AN ENTIRE
BUILDING
LIKE THIS TURNED OUT TO BE
ANYWAY SAID OKAY CHIEF WHATS GOING ON HES ON DIFFERENT CHANNEL THAN
AM FIGURED HE WAS GETTING DIFFERENT INFORMATION BELIEVE HE GOT INFORMATION THAT THE SOUTH TOWER WAS DOWN AND HE JUST SAID WERE EVACUATINA AND THATS IT OKAY FINE THATS

MCGLYNN
ENOUGH FOR ME LETS JUST EVACUATE THIS BUILDING AND SEE WHATS GOING ON
WAS THINKING MAYBE HE KNOWS SOMETHING MORE THAN DO BUT WAS ALSO WONDERING HOW WE
WERE NOW GOING TO FIGHT FIRE FOR BUILDING THATS ON THE 80TH FLOOR IF WERE ABANDONING THE
WORLD TRADE CENTER THIS IS NOT GOOD OBVIOUSLY YOU CANT DO SURROUND AND DROWN ON THE WORLD
TRADE CENTER
SO WE JUST BASICALLY STARTED WALKING DOWN THE STAIRS AND AT THIS POINT WE PASSED SOME
CIVILIANS NOT MANY IT WAS MAINLY FIREMEN WHO WERE EVACUATING WE STOPPED TO HELP SOME
CIVILIANS OUT TO GIVE THEM SOME AIR THAT HAD SOME PROBLEMS THE STAIRWAY WAS FAIRLY CLEAR
WE PASSED SOME UNITS ON THE WAY DOWN THE ONLY ONE REMEMBER SPECIFICALLY WAS FREDDIE ILL FROM TRUCK SAID TO CAPTAIN ILL LETS
GO WERE EVACUATING LETS GO LETS GET OUT OF HERE HE SAID IS THAT ON YOUR ORDERS SAID NO IT WAS CHIEF ON THE 31ST FLOOR HE SAID OKAY JUST LET ME GET MY GUYS
ANYWHERE THERE WAS SOME CONFUSION DOWN THERE AS TO WHETHER THE ORDER WAS AIVEN TO

MCGLYNN 10
FOUND OUT LATER WHETHER TO EVACUATE AND THEN HEARD WAS RESCINDED AND THEN IT WAS ISSUED AGAIN THATS ALL WHAT IVE HEARD IS RUMORS CANT SAY THAT THATS EXACTLY HAPPENED
SO WE CONTINUED DOWN THE STAIRS TO THE LOBBY WE MADE IT OUT INTO THE LOBBY WHEN WE
MADE IT TO THE LOBBY COULD SEE OUTSIDE HOW BAD IT WAS HOW THE STREET WAS NOW TULL OT CONCRETE
DUST AND FALLEN
ITS OBVIOUS NOW WHAT HAPPENED WAS
THAT VIBRATION THAT WE FELT WAS THE SOUTH TOWER COLLAPSING IT WASNT THIS BUILDING IT WAS THE SOUTH TOWER THAT HAD COME DOWN
SAW WHAT WAS GOING ON OUTSIDE AND SAID OKAY THIS IS REALLY BAD GRABBED MY
GUYS AND SAID LETS DO QUICK ROLL CALL AND MAKE SURE WE HAVE EVERYBODY EVERYBODY STAY
BUILDING PARTS
WHEN TOOK THE ROLL CALL REALIZED THAT WAS MISSING ONE GUY JOHN DRUMM DETAILED
TO THE TRUCK
ASKED THE GUYS WHEN THE LAST TIME
THEY SAW HIM AND THEY SAID THE LAST TIME THEY SAW HIM WAS THE SECOND FLOOR WE HAD BEEN
HELPINA SOME PEOPLE DOWN ALONA THE WAY AND
TOGETHER

MCGLYNN 11
ASSUMED THAT MAYBE HE GOT STUCK WITH SOMEBODY AND WASNT ABLE TO GET THEM DOWN THE STAIRS
WE WENT BACK INTO THE STAIRWELL
SAID OKAY LETS GO SEE IF WE CAN HELP JOHN OUT WE WENT BACK INTO THE STAIRWELL WE WALKED UP THREE OR FOUR FLIGHTS AGAIN SAID ARE YOU SURE YOU SAW HIM ON THE SECOND FLOOR
YES
WE YELLED ON THE FOURTH FLOOR WE YELLED ON THE THIRD FLOOR THE SECOND FLOOR
YELLED ON THE HANDY TALKY NO RESPONSE SAID
OKAY HE MUST HAVE KEPT GOING AT THAT POINT WE TURNED AROUND AND DECIDED TO EXIT WE SAID
OKAY LETS GET OUT OF HERE WHEN WE TURNED AROUND TO EXIT THE BUILDING CAME DOWN
BELIEVE WAS BETWEEN THE SECOND AND THIRD FLOOR ON THE HALF LANDING AND IT STARTED
TO SHAKE AND VIBRATE THEN HEARD THE SOUND OF FLOORS IMPLODING ONE ON TOP OF THE OTHER YOU
HEARD IT COMING AND YOU HEARD IT GETTING LOUDER AND LOUDER AND LOUDER AND LOUDER AND THINGS ARE
COMING DOWN ON TOP OF YOU
HIT THE FLOOR AND ROLLED TO THE
WALL AND LUST KIND OF COVERED UP INTO FETAL
THEY SAID

MCGLYNN 12
POSITION AND STARTED SAYING MY PRAYERS FINALLY THAT STOPPED AND THE DEBRIS STARTED COMING
WHEN THE LOUD BANGING STOPPED SAID OKAY AT LEAST IM NOT GOING TO GET CRUSHED OR IM NOT
GOING TO GET CRUSHED ON IMPACT
THEN THE DEBRIS KEPT COMING AND IT
STARTED COVERING ME UP AND THOUGHT OH GOD IM GOING TO DIE AND JUST GET BURIED ALIVE
SAID WOULD JUST RATHER DIE QUICKLY THAN GET BURIED ALIVE THEN THAT STOPPED
THEN FELT THIS STRANGE THING LIKE AIR
RUSHING UP THE ONLY THING THOUGHT AM FALLING AM GOING TO HEAVEN DIDNT KNOW
WHAT WAS GOING ON THINK MY ONLY EXPLANATION IS THAT THAT WAS THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING
TUMBLING TO THE STREET AND THEN FORCING AIR IN AND THEN IT HAVING NOWHERE TO GO BUT IT CAME UP
THATS MY ONLY POSSIBLE EXPLANATION OF WHAT HAPPENED THERE
THEN THAT STOPPED AND JUST WAITED AROUND AND KIND OF NOTHING ELSE HAPPENED
STOOD UP KIND OF BRUSHED MYSELF OFF AND KIND OF FELT ALL MY BODY PARTS SAID WELL OKAY IM ALIVE AND IM OKAY IT WAS KIND OF SHOCK

MCGLYNN 13
THERE WAS NOTHING MISSING NOTHING BROKEN NOTHING
YOU WERE IN THE STAIRWELL AT THIS TIME ON THE SECOND OR THIRD FLOOR SOMEWHERE OVER THERE
YEAH
COULD YOU SEE DAYLIGHT WAS THE
BUILDING COLLAPSED WAS IT BLACK
NO AT THIS POINT IT WASNT BLACK IT
WAS KIND OF LIKE TWILIGHT THERE WAS SOME VERY LITTLE LIGHT INITIALLY IT WAS VERY DARK THEN ALL THAT THE SMOKE AND THE DUST AND EVERYTHING LIFTED AND YOU COULD SEE
DAYLIGHT
THERE WAS STILL SMOKE AND THERE WAS
STILL DUST IT WASNT PITCH DARK BUT IT WASNT
LIKE
SEE LIGHT COME IN
KEEP IN MIND OBVIOUSLY THAT THAT
WHOLE AREA WHEN YOU SEE THE FILMS WHATEVER THAT WHOLE AREA WAS JUST FILLED WITH DUST SO THERE
WAS AOINA TO BE VERY VERY LITTLE VISIBILITY
DAYLIGHT
RIGHT
THEN FINALLY AFTER WHILE BEGAN TO

MCGLYNN 14
BUT AFTER WHILE WHEN THAT SETTLED THATS WHEN WE REALIZED WHAT HAPPENED THATS
WHEN WE REALIZED AND WE STARTED TO SEE LIGHT COME THROUGH AND IT CAME THROUGH WHAT WAS LEFT OF THE
BUILDING THATS WHEN YOU REALIZED THAT THIS
WHOLE BUILDING HAD COME DOWN AND REALLY WHAT WAS HAPPENING STILL DIDNT THINK THAT THE WHOLE
BUILDING CAME DOWN
AT THIS POINT
BELOW ME WERE OKAY
TWO GUYS BELOW ME WERE
TALKED TO MY TWO GUYS
HAD THREE GUYS WITH ME OKAY ONE OF THE GUYS WAS
WITH ME HE WAS OKAY EVERYBODY BASICALLY
AROUND US WAS OKAY
ONE GUY FROM LADDER WAS WITH ME
CHIEF PICCIOTTO WAS WITH ME AND LADDER
COUPLE GUYS WERE RIGHT ABOVE ME ALSO AT THAT
TIME CHIEF PRUNTY STARTED GIVING MAYDAYS OVER THE HANDY TALKY ABOUT HUNDRED MAYDAYS
AND NO ANSWER NO ACKNOWLEDGMENT NO RESPONSE YOU JUST KIND OF WAITED AROUND LITTLE BIT
SHORTLY AFTER GAVE THE MAYDAYS CHIEF PRUNTY CONTACTED ME ON THE HANDY TALKY AND HE
WAS TRAPPED HE GAVE ME GENERAL IDEA WHERE HE WAS SAID CHIEF OKAY HE TOLD ME THAT HE

MCGLYNN 15
WAS TRAPPED AND HE WAS LOSING CONSCIOUSNESS AND HE WASNT DOING WELL SAID CHIEF JUST HANG
IN THERE WERE GOING TO COME AND GET YOU JUST HANG IN THERE
WAS ABLE TO WALK UP FLIGHT OF
STAIRS THE STAIRS INSTEAD OF BEING IN NORMAL
POSITION THEY WERE KIND OF PUSHED OUT LIKE THEY WERE AGAINST THE WALLS AND THERE WAS NO WAY OUT DOWN THAT AREA WAS BLOCKED OFF COULD GO UP BUT THERE WAS LADDER WAS ABOVE ME THEY
SAID STAY WHERE YOU ARE THERES NOWHERE TO GO UP HERE
KEEP IN MIND THAT JUST WALKING ON THIS THING YOURE AFRAID THE WHOLE REST OF THE THING WAS GOING TO COME DOWN THEY SAID THERE NO
WAY YOU CAN GO FROM UP HERE JUST STAY WHERE YOU ARE
THERE WAS DOOR THERE WAS ABLE TO FORCE THE DOOR WITH THE GUY FROM LADDER THE
DOOR LEADING OUT OF THE STAIRWELL ONTO THAT
FLOOR WE CRAWLED IN LOOKED AROUND IN THERE
THOUGHT THERE WOULD BE POSSIBLY SOME WAY OUT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT NOT HAVING AN IDEA OF THE FULL IMPACT OF WHAT HAPPENED

WAS
THIS IS ALL HANDY TALKY CONTACT
YEAH
DID YOU REALLY HAVE ANY IDEA WHERE HE
NO NOT REALLY KNEW HE WAS IN
ASKED THE GUYS BELOW ME DO THEY KNOW
TROUBLE
WHERE HE IS THEY COULD HEAR HIM WITHOUT
MCGLYNN 16
NO CANT GO ANYWHERE THERE CRAWLED BACK OUT TRIED TO REACH THE CHIEF AGAIN AND
SAID CHIEF HANG IN THERE RESCUE IS COMING JUST TRIED TO GIVE HIM SOME KIND OF
ENCOURAGEMENT TO HANG IN THERE AND SEE IF THERE WAS ANYTHING WE COULD DO
THE HANDY TALKY THE HANDY TALKY
SO HE WAS NEAR YOU
SO THEY COULD HEAR HIM BUT THEY COULDNT GET TO HIM THEY WERE IN VERY
PRECARIOUS SITUATION ALSO THEY WERE IN AN AREA WHERE THEY WERE ON THIS AREA AND RIGHT NEXT TO
THEM WAS JUST THIS HOLE AND THE HOLE WENT DOWN LIKE 30 FEET OR SOMETHING
JUST SAID OKAY HANG IN THERE AT THIS TIME YOURE STILL THINKINA THAT OKAY

MCGLYNN 17
THERES GOING TO BE HELP ARRIVING SOON NOT REALLY GRASPING THE FULL IMPACT OF WHAT HAPPENED JUST SAYING OKAY LETS JUST HANG IN THERE
HE COULD TALK HE WAS BREATHING HE SAID HE WAS PINNED SAID ALL RIGHT LISTEN
WE NEED SOME OUTSIDE HELP HERE WE CANT DO ANYTHING THERE WAS NO WAY COULD GET TO HIM
SAID TO MY TWO GUYS BELOW CAN YOU GET TO HIM AT ALL THEY SAID NO SAID ALL RIGHT JUST TRY TO TALK TO HIM TRY TO KEEP HIM CONSCIOUS SEE WHAT YOU CAN DO AND LETS JUST SEE IF WE CAN GET SOME HELP
THIS WAS VERY EARLY THIS WAS PROBABLY 1100 OR SO
THE DUST AND EVERYTHING AFTER WHILE BEGAN TO LIFT YOU SAW LITTLE BIT OF LIGHT
COME IN WHEN YOU SAW LIGHT YOU BEGAN TO GET BETTER PICTURE OF WHAT HAPPENED WHEN SAY
LIGHT SAW LIKE BEAM OF LIGHT OF COUPLE INCHES OR SOMETHING NOT SOMETHING WHERE ALL OF SUDDEN IT WAS DAYLIGHT
YOU JUST SAW BEAM COME THERE AND THATS WHEN YOU KNEW WHERE YOU WERE KIND OF YOU KNEW THERE WASNT 50 OR 60 FLOORS ON TOP OF YOU

MCGLYNN 18
OR 100 FLOORS ON TOP OF YOU WE WERE ON THE THIRD OR FOURTH FLOOR AND IT WAS 110 STORY
BUILDING THERE COULD BE 100 STORIES ON TOP OF US WHICH MEANS
NUMBER ONE SAW LIGHT SO SAID OKAY THATS GOOD THING AT THE SAME TIME KNOW IM SEEING LIGHT AND IM SAYING THAT MEANS THAT THIS BUILDING IS DOWN
SO WE JUST KIND OF STAYED THERE TRIED TO MAKE CONTACT WITH OTHER UNITS AT SOME POINT
PROBABLY MAYBE AN HOUR OR SO AFTER THAT
DONT KNOW IF IT WAS CAPTAIN NOW CHIEF JONAS MADE
CONTACT WITH SOME OUTSIDE UNITS OR MAYBE IT WAS CHIEF PICCIOTTO IM NOT 100 PERCENT SURE WHO
MADE CONTACT
BUT THERE WAS CONTACT WITH OUTSIDE
UNITS AND THEY SAID OKAY WE KNOW THAT YOURE THERE BUT WE CANT COME FOR YOU RIGHT NOW
THEY SAID THEY HAD 40 STORY BUILDING WHICH GUESS WAS
WAS IT SEVEN WORLD TRADE THAT WAS ON FIRE ACROSS FROM THE NORTH TOWER
THINK ITS THIS NORTHEAST PLAZA NORTHEAST PLAZA

MCGLYNN 19
THAT CAME DOWN TOO RIGHT UH HUH
THINK THATS WHAT IT WAS THAT CAME DOWN WELL THEY SAID THATS FULLY INVOLVED AT
THIS TIME THIS WAS FULLY INVOLVED BUILDING SAID ALL RIGHT THEYRE NOT COMING FOR US FOR WHILE NOW YOURE TRAPPED IN THIS RUBBLE AND
YOURE TRYING TO GET GRASP OT AN IDEA OT WHATS GOING ON THERE HEARD ON THE HANDY TALKY THAT
WE ARE NOW FIGHTING 40 STORY BUILDING FULLY INVOLVED
NOW YOURE TRAPPED IN RUBBLE AND THE GUYS WHO ARE THERE ARE FIGHTING THE WORST
HIGH RISE FIRE IN THE HISTORY OF NEW YORK OR HISTORY OF THE WORLD PROBABLY DONT KNOW 40 STORY BUILDING FULLY INVOLVED GUESS THAT
WAS PROBABLY THE WORST
WOULD HAVE BEEN TEMPTED TO START
CURSING AND SAY COME AND GET ME AND FORGET THE FIRE
WELL WAS SAYING TO MYSELF WELL YOU KNOW THEY SAID THEY CANT COME FOR US WAS
THINKING OF CHIEF PRUNTY BECAUSE IM SAYING ALL RIAHT IM ALIVE WAS NEEDLESS TO SAY SCARED

BACON WAS WITH ME HE WAS BANGED UP BIT HE HAD BLOOD FROM HIS TEETH
CHIPPED COUPLE OF TEETH TWO GUYS
LITTLE THINK HE
MCGLYNN 20
TO DEATH THAT SOMETHING ELSE WAS GOING TO FALL ON US THAT THIS BUILDING WAS GOING TO COME DOWN AND WE WERE ALL GOING TO DIE AFTER SURVIVING THE WORST OF IT
AT THE SAME TIME IM THINKING OF CHIEF PRUNTY WHO IS FLOOR OR SO BELOW ME AND THERES NOTHING CAN DO
WE COULDNT GO DOWN WE COULDNT GO UP HOW WERE YOUR GUYS AT THIS TIME AMAZINGLY THEY WERE PRETTY GOOD BOB
BELOW DONT KNOW HOW THEYRE IN THIS DARKROOM DARK
AREA
BASICALLY WHAT HAPPENED WITH THEM
CHIEF IS THAT THEY WERE IN THE LOBBY AND THEY ENTERED THE STAIRWELL THEY OPENED THE DOOR TO THE STAIRWELL AND THINK THEY STAYED THERE WHEN MYSELF AND BACON WENT UP LOOKINA FOR JOHN DRUMM

MCGLYNN 21
SINCE THEY OPENED THE DOOR AND STAYED
IN THAT STAIRWELL THAT SAVED THEM CHIEF PRUNTY
STAYED IN THE LOBBY AND HE WAS DIRECTING PEOPLE OUT OF THE BUILDING AT THE TIME BEFORE THAT
WAS STANDING OUT THERE TOO SAYING OKAY LETS GO LETS GO COME ON LETS GO HE JUST WAS IN THE WRONG PLACE BECAUSE THE LOBBY CAME DOWN WHEN THE BUILDING CAME DOWN HE WAS IN THE LOBBY AND THERE WAS NOTHING TO STOP IT
THE ONLY THING IN THE STAIRWELL ITS KIND OF STRANGE JUST BECAUSE THAT GUY WHO WAS IN RESCUE ON THE 31ST FLOOR HE SAID THE SAFEST
PLACE TO BE IS IN THE STAIRWELL WELL THAT
MAKES SENSE SURE ENOUGH WE JUST HAPPENED TO BE IN THAT STAIRWELL WHEN IT CAME DOWN PURELY GOD OR ACCIDENT WHATEVER THATS WHERE WE WERE
WHEN THAT STAIRWELL CAME DOWN WHAT HAPPENED WAS WHAT FORCED THE STAIRWELL TO STAY UP
EXCEPT THE BUILDING MATERIALS COLLAPSED AND MADE THAT GIVE WAY BUT WHERE WE WERE THAT PART OF THE BUILDING JUST FELL AROUND IT COULD DRAW YOU DIAGRAM
COULD SHOW YOU THAT ALL THAT WAS LEFT LUST ROUAHLY SAY HERES THE WORLD TRADE

MCGLYNN 22
CENTER THIS IS 110 STORIES WE WERE SOMEWHERE IN HERE AND THIS IS THE STAIR WHEN THIS WHOLE
BUILDING CAME DOWN THIS IS ALL THAT SURVIVED THIS LITTLE NUB
UNBELIEVABLE
OF ABOUT WOULD SAY FIVE STORIES
THATS WHERE WE WERE WE WERE IN THERE WHAT HAPPENED IS THE REST OT THIS
STAIRWELL WHEN THE BUILDING COLLAPSED TOOK THIS WITH IT BUT AT THIS POINT ALL THIS STUFF JUST
KIND OF
PEELED OFF TO THE SIDES THERE WAS MOUNTAIN ON THE TOP THAT WAS PROTECTED AREA
WHEN WE CAME OUT RIGHT HERE THERE WAS THIS GULLY IT WENT SOMETHING LIKE THIS
REMEMBER WHEN WE FINALLY CAME OUT WE HAD TO WALK DOWN INTO THIS CRATER JUST REMEMBER LOOKING OUT HERE AND SEEING LIKE RIGHT HERE PEOPLE LOOKED SO CLOSE BUT WHEN WALKED DOWN THEY LOOKED LIKE FAR AWAY IT WAS LIKE ARE MY EYES PLAYING TRICKS ON ME WHY DO THEY LOOK YOUR SENSES WERE OFF
WHAT FORMED THOSE GULLIES ON THE SIDE
MEAN OBVIOUSLY THERE WERE EIGHT BASEMENT LEVELS BELOW THAT PROBABLY SO THIS IS MORE OR

LESS LIKE COLLAPSE FROM THE BUILDING PARTS RIGHT ALL THE STUFF RIGHT
JUST PUSHING EVERYTHING
THE BUILDING RIGHT
DOWN NEXT TO
MCGLYNN 23
SO BASICALLY WE JUST STAYED THERE AND WAITED AND TRIED TO MAKE CONTACT FINALLY WE
MADE CONTACT
EXACTLY WHO BUT CHIEF VISCONTI
THINK JAY JONAS DONT KNOW KNOW HE MADE CONTACT WITH
THE THING WAS WE WERE TRYING TO TELL THEM WHERE WE WERE WE JUST KEPT TELLING
THEM WERE IN THE STAIRWELL
REMEMBER EVERYBODY HAD THE SAME
EXASPERATION DID WE MUST HAVE TOLD THEM HUNDRED TIMES STAIRWELL IN THE SECOND FLOOR
THIRD FLOOR FOURTH FLOOR OF THE NORTH TOWER MEAN STAIRWELL SECOND THIRD FOURTH FLOOR NORTH TOWER STAIRWELL NORTH TOWER WHERE ARE YOU NORTH TOWER STAIRWAY SECOND
THIRD FLOOR
YOU COULD HEAR THEY DIDNT UNDERSTAND
WHERE WE WERE IM KEEP GOING MY GOD WHY ARENT YOU LISTENING THEN THEY SAID WHERES THE NORTH TOWER WAS LIKE WHAT DO YOU MEAN

MCGLYNN 24
WHERES THE NORTH TOWER THE WORLD TRADE CENTER THERES TWO WORLD TRADE CENTERS
EVEN THOUGH WE KNEW THERE WAS COLLAPSE THE IDEA THAT BOTH OF THESE BUILDINGS
WERE TOTALLY DOWN JUST FALLEN
AND THIS WAS ALL THAT WAS LEFT WAS
SOMETHING THAT WAS JUST
YOU COULDNT UNDERSTAND THAT
NO IT WAS UNIMAGINABLE
FINALLY WHAT HAPPENED WAS ONE OF THE GUYS FROM LADDER 43 AND IM SURE OTHER COMPANIES
SET UP THESE WIRE ROPES AND WERE ABLE TO FIND US CHIEF PICCIOTTO HAD BULLHORN OR SOMETHING
THINK THAT HE USED GUESS YOU CAN MAKE SOME KIND OF SIREN DEVICE WITH THAT OR SOMETHING
THEY WERE ABLE TO KEY IN AS TO WHERE WE WERE THEN THEY MADE CONTACT LADDER AS SAID WAS
RIGHT ABOVE US THEY HAD THAT WOMAN JOSEPHINE WHEN THEY MADE CONTACT AND SAID
OKAY SENT MY GUY UP BOB BACON AND STILL HAD TWO GUYS BELOW HAD TO TELL PEOPLE WHERE
CHIEF PRUNTY IS GLEN ROHAN FROM 43 TRUCK SENT BACON UP WITH THE AUYS WHO WERE IN THE

MCGLYNN 25
HALLWAY WHEN THEY SAID OKAY WHEN THEY FINALLY MADE CONTACT THEN WE KNEW HOW WE WERE GETTING
OUT THEY WERE GETTING OUT BY GOING UP 43
MADE DIDNT HAVE THAT KIND OF VIEW SO
DIDNT KNOW HOW WE WERE GOING OUT AT THIS POINT WERE WE GOING FROM THE SIDES FROM BELOW OR WHAT
FINALLY 43 OKAY YEAH WERE GETTING UP COME UP THE STAIRS OKAY GO UP THE
STAIRS SENT BACON UP ONE GUY FROM 43 LIEUTENANT ROHAN CAME IN CAME DOWN THE STAIRS
KNOW GLEN SAID GLEN GLAD TO SEE YOU HOW ARE YOU HE SAID HOW ARE YOU SAID
IM ALL RIGHT
SAID LISTEN IVE GOT TWO GUYS BELOW HERE THAT WEVE GOT TO GET OUT SOMEWHERE
SHOWED HIM MY FLASHLIGHT SAID ID DIG RIGHT BELOW HERE BUT IM AFRAID TO TOUCH
ANYTHING IM AFRAID THE REST OF THIS IS GOING TO COME DOWN
THATS WHEN HE TOLD ME HE SAID WELL THERES NOT MUCH LEFT ON TOP OF HERE STILL WAS JUST LIKE IT WAS INDESCRIBABLE THERES NOT MUCH LEFT UP HERE
ANYWAY HE CAME IN DIDNT WANT TWO

GUYS STANDING ON TOP OF THIS HALF LANDING
RECOGNIZED
MCGLYNN 26
BECAUSE
THERES
HAVE TO
THIS THEN THINK WE CAN GET THEM OUT OF THERE
WAS AFRAID IT WAS GOING TO COLLAPSE CRACK IN THE FLOOR AND SAID WE
ENLARGE THIS LITTLE BIT IF WE ENLARGE
ASKED THEM IF WE ENLARGE THIS CRACK CAN YOU GUYS GET OUT OF THERE THEY
SAID YEAH ONE GUY JIMMY KEEP IN MIND HES THE YOUNGER KID HE SAID YEAH CAN JUST
CRAWL THROUGH THAT
THIS OTHER GUY JEFF CONIGLIO WHO IS
ALWAYS MAKING JOKES ABOUT HIS WEIGHT HE SAID LIEUTENANT THERE IS NO WAY THE FATTEST MAN ON
THE JOB IS GOING TO FIT THROUGH THAT HOLE JUST SAID WELL THANK GOD HES MAKING JOKES ABOUT THIS BECAUSE IM ABOUT TO COLLAPSE IM ABOUT TO LOSE IT SAID HES MAKING JOKES
KNOW HIS SPIRITS ARE GOOD
BASICALLY THEN GLEN ENLARGED THE HOLE
HE ALSO THROUGH HIS CONSTRUCTION EXPERIENCE
THAT THERE WAS AN ELEVATOR SHAFT ALONGSIDE OF HIM AND WAS ABLE TO WITH THE
THAT WALL THERE WAS NOT CINDER BLOCK IT WAS SHEETROCK SO THEY BANAED HOLE THROUAH
HALLIGAN

MCGLYNN 27
THAT AND PASSED ROPE DOWN AND THEN WERE ABLE TO CRAWL UP THROUGH THERE AND GET THOSE TWO GUYS OUT
THESE TWO GUYS CAME OUT AND THEN GLEN ROHAN AND ONE GUY FROM RESCUE AND 53 AND 43 CAME
DOWN THROUGH THE ELEVATOR SHAFT OR SOMEHOW OR OTHER IM NOT EXACTLY SURE HOW THEY WERE ABLE TO TIND CHIET PRUNTY BUT OT COURSE AT THIS
TIME HE HAD PASSED THEY JUST SAID FORGET HIM HES GONE DONT THINK THEY GOT HIM OUT OF
THERE FOR COUPLE DAYS
WHO PIERCED THE SHEETROCK WALL
GLEN ROHAN GLEN ROHAN
AND WHERE DID HE PUNCTURE IT AND FOR WHAT REASON HE WAS ABOVE YOU
HE BASICALLY AT THIS POINT WAS IM NOT HUNDRED PERCENT SURE OF WHAT HAPPENED BUT HE LOOKED DOWN AND HE WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW HE WAS GOING TO GET THESE TWO GUYS UP
BECAUSE CONIGLIO FROM HIS VIEW WOULD GIVE YOU
BETTER UNDERSTANDING BECAUSE WAS KIND OF STANDING BEHIND THE WALL NEXT TO THEM WAS DOUBLE SHEETROCK HE RECOGNIZED THAT LIKE
SAID THINK HE USED TO WORK CONSTRUCTION HE

PUNCTURING
MCGLYNN 28
SAID WE CAN GO THROUGH THIS
KNOW IT HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH
THAT WALL LIKE SAID NEVER SAW EXACTLY WHERE THEY WERE BECAUSE DIDNT WANT TWO GUYS ON THAT HALF LANDING SAID ONE GUY ON THIS IS ENOUGH WITH HIS FLASHLIGHT HE LOOKED DOWN WAS KIND OF STANDING ON THE STAIRS AT
THIS POINT HE GAVE THEM DIRECTIONS HE SAID LISTEN THIS IS THE BEST WAY TO DO IT
THINK IT JUST WAS AN EASIER
DONT KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HE SAW MAYBE THERE WAS
DEBRIS MAYBE THERE WAS NO WAY THEY COULD GET UP THAT WAY MAYBE IT WAS EASY TO ENLARGE THAT
HOLE HE TOLD ME ONCE BEFORE BUT NEVER FOLLOWED EXACTLY HOW THEY GOT OUT
SO BASICALLY THEN AFTER THEY MADE CONTACT OR WHEN THEY FOUND CHIEF PRUNTYS BODY THERE WASNT TOO MUCH ELSE TO DO GETTING HIM OUT WAS NOW GOING TO BE RECOVERY IT WASNT GOING TO BE RESCUE WE TOLD THEM UPSTAIRS WHAT WAS GOING ON AND THAT THEY NEEDED SOME EQUIPMENT TO GET HIM OUT
AT THE SAME TIME THEY WANTED EVERYBODY OUT OF THERE THEY DIDNT WANT ANYBODY IN THERE
WAY

BECAUSE
MCGLYNN 29
THEY WERE AFRAID OF COLLAPSE
UH HUH ESPECIALLY SINCE HE WAS GONE THERE WASNT MUCH SENSE
WALKED OUT AT THAT POINT AND JUST KIND OF LOOKED AROUND SAW THE DEVASTATION
IT WAS JUST MIND BOGGLING JUST SOMETHING
COULDNT IMAGINE BOTH THESE BUILDING WERE DOWN
GRANTED THEY WERE BOTH ON FIRE WHEN WE WALKED IN BUT THEY WERE STILL THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WHEN YOU COME OUT IT LOOKED LIKE SOMETHING OUT
OF WAR MOVIE IT LOOKED LIKE SOMETHING IN
PICTURE OF NAGASAKI OR SOMETHING BLOCKS AND BLOCKS OF RUBBLE
YOU CANT BELIEVE IT
NO ESPECIALLY IN THAT AREA USED TO WORK IN THE SOUTH BRONX BEFORE THIS WAS
LOWER MANHATTAN
RICHEST AREA IN THE WORLD
JUST CLIMBED OUT OF THERE AND FOLLOWED THE ROPES DOWN FOLLOWED THE BEAMS UP AND OVER AT THE SAME TIME WE WERE WALKING OUT
AND SURE ENOUGH THAT BUILDING WAS STILL INVOLVED IM LIKE IS IT AOINA TO COME DOWN
YOU

NEXT
MCGLYNN 30
JUST WHEN YOU THOUGHT IT WAS OVER
YOURE WALKING BY THIS BUILDING AND YOURE HEARING THIS BUILDING CREAK AND FULLY INVOLVED IN
FLAMES ITS LIKE IS IT COMING DOWN NEXT SURE ENOUGH ABOUT HALF AN HOUR LATER IT CAME DOWN
NO KIDDING
MEAN THANK GOD EVERYBODY WAS OUT OT
THERE AT THAT POINT
JUST WANDERED AROUND FOUND MY MEN
TOLD THEM THAT EVERYBODY WAS OUT EVERYBODY WAS OKAY
YOU GOT ALL YOUR GUYS
EVERYBODY WAS OUT THATS THE MOST AMAZING THING ABOUT IT WE WERE ALL THERE WE
HEAR OF ALL THE COMPANIES THAT LOST TOTAL
COMPANIES THATS THE STRANGE THING ABOUT IT WAS WHEN YOU CAME OUT THAT YOU JUST HAD THIS
TREMENDOUS JOY THAT YOU SURVIVED IT
AT THE SAME TIME YOU HEARD THE NUMBERS
OF PEOPLE MISSING YOURE TALKING ABOUT LIKE 50 COMPANIES YOURE TALKING ABOUT 300 PEOPLE NO THEYRE GOING TO FIND THEM THEY FOUND ME FOUND US ITS AOINA TO BE

MCGLYNN 31
THE NEXT THING ITS THE NEXT DAY OR SO AND NOBODY WAS FOUND AND YOU REALIZE THAT WAS IT
YOU WALKED OUT OF THE BUILDING YOU WALKED DOWN THAT DEPRESSION AND UP
YEAH
YOU CAME OUT LIKE NORTH OF THE NORTH TOWER YOU WERE UP AROUND VESEY STREET SOMEWHERE OVER HERE NEXT TO THE TIRE BUILDING THE BUILDING THAT WAS BURNING YOU WALKED UP THIS WAY AND YOU FOUND YOUR GUYS ON VESEY
YEAH THINK WALKED DOWN VESEY OR WHATEVER AND DOWN HERE
TO WEST STREET AND THEN NORTH
UH HUH
WHERE DID YOU WIND UP GOING TO THE
HOSPITAL OR WENT TO QUARTERS
STAYED THERE FOR WHILE WHERE IS
SCHOOL
ITS OVER HERE SOMEPLACE
WALKED AND THERE WAS SOME OTHER SCHOOL UP HERE COLLEGE OF INSURANCE NO IT WAS
NORTH OF THERE WALKED UP HERE SOMEWHERE AND THINK LOT OF GUYS WHERE IS EVERYBODY AT
THIS POINT WERE THEY OVER HERE MURRAY
STUYVESANT HIGH

MCGLYNN 32
YEAH THINK THE STAGING AREA WAS SOMEWHERE IN HERE
AROUND HERE AND THIS SEEMED LIKE MILES BECAUSE IT WAS JUST WALKED UP HERE
KIND OF STAYED HERE FOR WHILE WAS LOOKING
FOR SOME PEOPLE THEN RAN INTO TWO GUYS AND THEY SAID THEY WERE UP HERE SOMEWHERE SO
WALKED UP THERE AND TOUND THEM AND BASICALLY
JUST TOLD SAW PEOPLE
STAYED THERE FOR WHILE AND PEOPLE
STARTED TELLING ME ABOUT PEOPLE THAT WERE MISSING AND STUFF OH THEYRE GOING TO FIND THEM
THEYRE GOING TO FIND THEM SOMEWHERE THEYRE IN THE VOIDS AND STUFF
THEN FINALLY WALKED BACK BECAUSE THE COMMAND POST WAS SET UP SOMEWHERE JUST WANTED TO LET EVERYBODY KNOW AT THE COMMAND POST THAT WE WERE ALL OKAY AND WERE FOUND AND EVERYTHING IS
ALL RIGHT SO CHECKED IN AT THE COMMAND POST LET EVERYBODY KNOW THAT EVERYBODY WAS FINE
THEN THERE WAS THE TRIAGE UNIT OR
WHATEVER THE MEDICAL UNIT AND JUST HAD MY EYES WASHED OUT BECAUSE THEY WERE JUST FILLED
WITH DUST LUST WANTED TO AET THE DUST OUT
RIGHT

MCGLYNN 33
BECAUSE HAD SCRATCHED THE CORNEA ONCE BEFORE AND DIDNT WANT TO GO THROUGH THAT AGAIN SO THEY CLEANED IT OUT AND THEY SAID EVERYTHING WAS FINE SAID GOOD OKAY LETS
GO BASICALLY STAYED THERE GUESS
UNTIL 630 700 THEN 16 TRUCK WAS COMING BACK AND SAID OKAY IM GOING TO GO BACK TO THE TIREHOUSE BASICALLY THAT WAS IT CAME BACK HERE
UNBELIEVABLE
HAVE QUESTION TO ASK YOU WHEN YOU FIRST CAME IN THE LOBBY AND WHOEVER TOLD YOU TO
GO UP AND JOIN UP WITH THE OTHER ENGINE WHAT DID YOU THINK THEY WERE TELLINA YOU TO DO FIAHT THE

MCGLYNN 34
FIRE BRING YOUR ROLLUPS THIS WAS GOING TO BE LIKE FIREFIGHTING THING WAS WONDERING WHAT THEIR THOUGHT PROCESS WAS
THEIR ASSIGNMENT WAS TO HEAD UP THE STAIRWAY AND DO WHAT YOU CAN
THATS IT
MY MIND AT THIS POINT WAS ALL RIGHT
WE RE NOT DONT THINK WERE GOING TO BE ABLE
TO PUT THIS FIRE OUT IF GET UP THERE MEAN 80 FLOORS THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE
ITS GOING TO BE LONG TIME
THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE ONE OR
TWO LINE OPERATION
RIGHT
LETS JUST GET SOME MEN UP THERE
MAYBE WE CAN HOOK UP COUPLE TWO AND HALVES
OUR PRIMARY THING IS OBVIOUSLY LIFE IF WE SEE PEOPLE THAT CANT WALK OUT THEN WE HAVE TO CARRY
THEM OUT
DONT KNOW OF ANY ENGINE COMPANY DONT KNOW THE CLOSEST PEOPLE GOT UP IN YOUR
EXPERIENCE WHAT WAS THE HIGHEST ANYBODY GOT UP 40TH FLOOR THINK IS THE HIGHEST
HEARD THE 40TH FLOOR THINK THE SQUAD OR THE

MCGLYNN 35
RESCUE OR SOMEBODY REACHED THE 40TH FLOOR BUT DIDNT HEAR ANYTHING ABOVE THAT MOST GUYS
REACHED ABOUT 31 THE EARLY COMPANIES THAT GOT THERE WERE ON AROUND THE 30TH FLOOR
THE COMPANIES WERE BASICALLY ON THE 31ST OR 33RD FLOOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT THE
QUICKEST RUNNING COMPANIES THE ONES THAT REACHED THE HIGHEST WHEN THE ORDER WAS GIVEN TO GET OUT OF THE NORTH TOWER AND THEN THEY REVERSED AND THEY CAME DOWN
DID HEAR STORY THE STORY WAS THAT MOST OF THE COMPANIES THAT INTERVIEWED ANYHOW
GOT UP TO ABOUT THE 31ST FLOOR BEFORE THE SOUTH TOWER COLLAPSED AND THEN THEY GOT ORDERS TO START REVERSING AND COME DOWN
DO YOU KNOW WHAT CHIEF WAS ON THE 31ST FLOOR IN THE NORTH TOWER IM NOT SURE
NO THINK THAT THEY WERE TELLING ME SOME CHIEF THEY DIDNT RECOGNIZE WHAT CHIEF IT WAS THE PEOPLE THAT TOLD ME FROM ENGINE HE
DIDNT RECOGNIZE THE CHIEF IM TRYING TO THINK
BECAUSE LIKE THE LOCAL CHIEFS WERE DOWN TO THE
LOBBY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT
THESE WERE LIKE SECONDARY CHIEFS THAT

MCGLYNN 36
MADE IT UP AND WERE RUNNING AROUND INSIDE THE BUILDING AND THAT GOT THAT MESSAGE ON THE COMMAND
CHANNEL THEN THEY STARTED TELLING PEOPLE GET OUT GET OUT WERE NOT GOING UP ANYMORE
CANT REMEMBER WHAT GUYS TOLD ME DONT REMEMBER THEM TELLING ME CHIEF SO AND SO
THINK THEY WERE MORE OR LESS SAYING UP THERE AND HE TOLD US GET OUT
THATS ABOUT IT
THATS ABOUT IT
THATS ABOUT IT
CHIEF MALKIN ITS NOW 2215
CHIEF WAS
HOURS THANK THE LIEUTENANT FOR THIS INTERVIEW THIS IS THE CONCLUSION OF THE INTERVIEW
File No. 9110448
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER ARMANDO RENO
   Interview Date:  January 13, 2002
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
A. RENO
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today is January
13th, 2002, and the time is 12:55 p.m.  This is
Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan from the Safety
Battalion of the Fire Department of the City of New
York.  I am conducting an interview with Firefighter
Armando Reno from Engine 65 in the quarters of Engine
65.
     Q.   Armando, please tell us the events as you
recall them on September 11th.
     A.   We received the box approximately 9:00
o'clock.  Already had the rigs fully loaded with EMS
equipment and flashlights because I knew from previous
experience in '93, I was there for that explosion, you
need a lot of flashlights there.  Anyway, we had a good
response time going down -- heading west up 42ndnd
Street to West Side Highway, went downtown.  There was
really very little traffic.
          I stopped by the north tower, let the guys
off.  I was the chauffeur for 65 Engine and I pulled
over to the first hydrant I saw, and I picked up a
chauffeur from 1 Engine also.  We started to hook up to
the hydrant, but we saw a better hydrant closer, right
on the corner of Liberty and West.  As I went to pull
away, somebody took my mask off the rig on the side, so
3
          Anyway, I went to Liberty and West to look at
the standpipe connections there alongside the hotel,
and obviously they handled the whole building, all the
standpipe connections for the whole complex.  Also, I
drove a high-pressure rig and I thought maybe, you
know, it looks like it might be needed because the 80th
floor the plane hit, and the second plane didn't hit at
this time yet, the south tower.
          I was working by the south bridge.  There
were numerous car fires there.  I was located by the
south bridge and the chauffeur from 1 Engine was with
me.  There were two lengths of a 2-1/2 inch line
stretched off the hydrant there on the south side of
Liberty Street.  We were putting out the car fires, or
attempting to, and there was no -- the water had no
effect on the car fires at the time.  I started
thinking about getting the foam off the rig, and I also
noticed there were numerous bodies by Cedar Street, and
I was thinking of getting the EMS equipment off the
rig, putting gloves on and starting to get the bodies,
putting them in bags.  Well, body pieces.  I have a
hard time talking.  They had to pull a tooth in my
A. RENO
I was yelling and screaming back and forth, and I
couldn't figure out who took it.  They left.
A. RENO
4
mouth.  That's it.  I lost a tooth.
          About five minutes later I got hit by --
there were numerous people coming out of this hotel,
International Hotel there around the corner, and we
were directing them to the south side of West Street,
directing them west.
     Q.   The west side?
     A.   Across, yes, go across West Street, directing
them to go across, to make tracks, get going.  There
were two firemen there with me.  I don't know what
happened to them.  They were also helping direct these
people.  Also, I had told the chauffeur from 1 Engine,
there was a can and a nozzle from those two 2-1/2 inch
lines, I mean the lengths, to come around the other
side of the bridge and protect the bridge also from the
car fires, and he came around, and that's the last I
remember.  I couldn't tell you any more.
     Q.   You didn't know about the collapse, like you
didn't hear it or anything?
     A.   Didn't hear it at all.  Didn't hear it, you
know, what happened there or anything else at all.  I
remember --
     Q.   You ended up under the overpass, when you
were found, I mean?  Where were you found?
A. RENO
5
     A.   I was found at the foot of the overpass, sort
of right by Cedar Street someplace, around there.  Up
heading east on Liberty, maybe about 200 feet.
     Q.   Okay.  So what do you remember?  You were
knocked unconscious.  What do you remember next?
     A.   The next I remember, guys attempting to take
me out, actually pulling me out really.  I remember
telling them stop for a moment and I adjusted my body a
little bit and they pulled me out, and the next thing I
remember is my son in the emergency room.  He's a Fire
Department EMS employee and he fixed the collar.  The
doctors put the collar on me wrong.  I had a cervical
collar on.  They put it on wrong.  He had to fix it for
me.
          Really, that whole week in the hospital, I
remember very little.  I don't remember seeing any Fire
Department personnel other than the guys from my own
company coming up to see me, and that is really it.
The limousine ride, the guys in 65 Engine picked me up
in a limousine and took me home, and even that I just
remember a little bit, coming to the firehouse and then
going home.  I just remember very little of that.
     Q.   From conversation with other people, do you
know what happened to you?  After that head beam
A. RENO
6
collapsed, like what hit you or anything?
     A.   I don't know what hit me.  I don't know.  But
it really made an impression on my back.  I got a
couple of wounds, it looked like shrapnel wounds across
my back, like a depression.  It looked like a handrail,
like someone hit me with a handrail across my back.  I
don't remember.   I couldn't remember nothing.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  All right.  Well,
the time now is 1:04.
     Q.   Oh, you have something else to say?
     A.   I think there was a Chief's car.  I remember
a Chief's car, a battalion car, coming down Liberty
Street and turning onto West Street.  I remember that
pulling around because I was thinking, well, if you
stretch a line from the rig because you might need more
water, and I was looking back at the rig and I was
thinking of all that  (inaudible) and where the car was
I have no idea, where they came from or where they went
or anything.  I don't even remember looking at the
battalion number on it.  That was it.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Well, thank you,
Armando.  The time now is 1:05 and this concludes the
interview.
File No. 9110449
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER JOSEPH PETRASSI
   Interview Date:  January 13, 2002
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
J. PETRASSI
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today is January
13th, 2002, and the time is 1:15 p.m., and this is
Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan from the Safety
Battalion of the Fire Department of the City of New
York.  I'm conducting an interview with Firefighter
Joseph Petrassi of Engine 65 in the quarters of Engine
65.
     Q.   Joe, just tell us the events as you recall
them of September 11th.
     A.   Okay.  On the 11th, at approximately 9:00
o'clock a.m., we got the ticket for the World Trade
Center.  I believe it was the first fifth alarm.  We
went up to the west side and proceeded to go to the
Trade Center.  We could see the fire when we hit the
West Side Highway.  You could see it from the rig.  We
continued up and our chauffeur dropped us off at West
Street and Vesey.  We got off, we grabbed our roll-ups,
grabbed an extra bottle and we went into the north
tower.
          At the north tower there was a Chief that
directed the Lieutenant to take his men and work his
way up, and that's pretty much what we did.  We started
heading up.
     Q.   Did you walk or take the elevator?
J. PETRASSI
3
     A.   No, we walked.  We had our roll-ups and
bottles and we walked up, and I believe it was around
the 20th floor that we stopped to take a breather.  I'm
not sure if it was at the 20th floor or 22nd, that's
unclear, but we felt a shake, the building shake, and
things just started getting like different.  A little
bit after that the Lieutenant said, well, we've got to
make our way down, and we pretty much took whatever
people were in the stairway, came down with them.
     Q.   Were there many people in the stairs?
     A.   Yes, the stairs were pretty full.
     Q.   Coming up and going down?
     A.   Going down.  Well, when we were going up,
people were coming down.  But I think when we started
coming down, it seemed like there was maybe a little
more urgency to it.  That was it.  We made our way down
to the lobby.  The lobby looked like it was blown out,
like the elevator doors.  We came out of the building
and we were looking up and the tower seemed to blow
out, but it was on fire, and the Lieutenant said to run
and we ran north up West Street.  You could the feel
the stuff hitting you on the back as you were running.
It felt like it was right behind you.  I just dove
under a truck or some apparatus or something.  I
J. PETRASSI
4
remember diving, but I couldn't even tell you what it
was.  Then everything went pitch black, everything went
silent.  I was disoriented.  I didn't know where I
was.  I really didn't know what was going on.  It took
a couple of minutes to get my thoughts.  Then I started
calling out to the company.  I was calling out anybody
from the company.  Eventually, we got together and we
found each other.  That was it.  We went to the area.
We were directed by some Chief to go north, to keep
going north, and we were ordered to stay there.
     Q.   Okay.  When you were in the lobby, is there
anybody that you recognized that you knew or a company
that was still in the lobby?
     A.   That I personally saw, no.  But there were
guys that did see them.  I had mentioned at the time
that --
     Q.   Do you know what company?
     A.   2 Truck, Captain Ill.  I think he might have
been like on the 7th floor, that somebody had mentioned
that as we were going down they had called to him.
Just from hearing guys from other companies who told me
they had seen a couple guys from 2 in the lobby.  But I
personally can't -- I don't remember specifically
seeing anyone that I could say that I saw them exactly
J. PETRASSI
where.
     Q.   Okay.  Is that it?
     A.   Yes.
5
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time now is
1:20 and this concludes the interview.
File No. 9110450
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER BRIAN RUSSO
   Interview Date:  January 13, 2002
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
B. RUSSO
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  The date is January
13th, 2002, the time is 2:25 p.m., and this is
Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan from the Safety
Battalion of the Fire Department of the City of New
York.  I'm conducting an interview with Firefighter
Brian Russo from Engine 91 in the quarters of Engine
91.
     Q.   Brian, just tell us what you remember from
September 11th.
     A.   Okay.  I worked the night tour on the 10th
and I was due to get off at 9:00 a.m.  I hadn't been
relieved yet.  When the run came in, actually, 91
Engine responded.  I actually responded with the rack
unit because that detail had come in.  So I responded
on the initial fifth alarm for the first Trade Center.
I believe that was the north tower.  I think the box
came in like 8:48 in the morning.  We responded.
          We arrived at the scene on the corner of
Vesey and Church, adjacent to the north tower, across
the street, in that direction.  There were numerous
rigs.  It was myself, another firefighter from 91 and a
covering Captain.  We didn't have any gear.  All we had
was our turnout coat and boots and helmet, no radio, no
masks.  So we couldn't really monitor the radio
2
B. RUSSO
handy-talkie traffic.
          Proceeded to walk south along Church towards
Liberty Street surveying the scene.  There was debris,
fires breaking out, numerous bodies.  Then when we hit
Liberty Street, we made a -- if you're looking south,
we made a right onto Liberty heading towards the West
Side Highway.  This is after the second plane had hit
the tower, hit the south tower.
          We arrived.  We had just seen a fireman get
hit by a body, I believe it was Danny Suhr from 216,
and they were pulling him away from the building, and
we decided to take cover on the south side of Liberty
under a scaffolding.  There I remember seeing the
members of 58 Engine.  It was about four or five guys
from 58 with their roll-ups, and there was so much
debris coming down that they decided to head into I
believe the hotel, the Vista Hotel.  That's where we
left them.
          We continued to walk towards the West Side
Highway and then over to the command post, which was on
the West Side Highway, on the west side, right in front
of the World Financial Center.  So we met up with the
rest of the members from 91.  We were instructed to
secure a set of irons.  We tried to get a couple of
3
B. RUSSO
extra masks, whatever gear we could find, and we were
going to be sent into the north tower with an engineer
to search the lower levels.
          There were numerous companies there.  I
remember seeing Chief Ganci, he was there, you know,
other guys from 91, other companies.  I couldn't tell
you exactly which companies were where, but since I
didn't have a radio, I couldn't really monitor who was
going into what building and who was assigned where.
          As soon as we started heading towards the
building, that's when the first -- the south building
came down.
     Q.   Which building were you heading into?
     A.   We were heading towards the north tower, I
believe, and that's when the south tower came down.
Most of the guys ran back across the West Side Highway
into one of the Financial Center subbasements.  I guess
it was a parking garage it would have been.  I guess I
was a little bit removed from them, a little further
north, so I decided to run up West Street, the West
Side Highway there, West Street, and I just headed
north.  That's where I was going.  That's when the
cloud hit.  I got knocked down underneath the
pedestrian bridge.  Then you just hunkered down waiting
4
B. RUSSO
for the smoke to blow over.
          After the smoke had cleared considerably, I
went back to where my company had been because I didn't
realize that they were on the other side of the
building.  They had gotten out, but I couldn't find
anybody.  So I headed back south towards the towers.  A
couple guys from I believe it was -- I remember seeing
Lieutenant Ray Murphy from 16 Truck and other men from
16.  The guys were kind of a group and headed back down
and see if they could find anybody, find out what was
going on.
          Then just pretty much met up -- I remember
seeing Lieutenant Casey from 91, hooking up with him,
and I just went down, tried to see if I could do
anything, looking for people, victims, whatever, and
searching down there.  That's when the north tower came
down and that's -- I mean, you just headed back up the
West Side Highway, once again, trying to avoid all the
debris coming down.
          After that they decided to pull everybody out
and I know -- what building was it?  Building 5, I
believe, the other tall building there, the third
building that came down, they were evacuating people.
So everyone just pushed up West Street all the way up
5
B. RUSSO
towards the high school there.  I forget the name of
the high school.
     Q.   Stuyvesant?
     A.   Stuyvesant, yes.  That's kind of where they
ran the operation from there.  In between the north
tower and the south tower coming down, I believe I saw
Chief Ganci somewhere along the way there.  I don't
know where he was heading to, but I saw him somewhere
along the line.  I wasn't sure.  I'm not too clear of
when that was.  But other than that, that's pretty much
it.  Besides those few people I remember, everything
else was you couldn't tell who was who, and wondering
whether we were ever going to find pieces and stuff
like that.
          Then we tried to get back down later on to do
some more searching, looking for people, but they had
blockades up by then, so they weren't really letting
people back down, and we just sat and waited to do
something later on pretty much.  That's about it.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Okay, Brian.  Thank
you for your help.  The time now is 2:34 and this
concludes the interview.
6
File No. 9110451
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER RICHARD RATAZZI Interview Date: January 13, 2002
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
2
Ratazzi
BATALLION CHIEF KENAHAN: Today is January 13, 2002 and
this is Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan from the Safety Battalion of the Fire Department of the City of New York. I am conducting an interview with Richard Ratazzi, firefighter from Ladder 16. The location is the quarters of Engine 39.
Q. Rich, please give us the details as you recall them from September 1 1th.
A. We had just gotten off duty the morning of the 11th. Myself and Firefighter Curatolo, we were watching the -- we had heard the second alarm on arrival for the south tower. Excuse me. The north tower, the tower that got hit first. We were watching in-house watch when the second tower got hit. When the fifth alarm went in right off the
bat, the truck was called. The engine had already been called because of the 10-77.
The truck got called shortly after that when it went to a fifth alarm. Lieutenant Murphy drove into quarters right after the rig had left. He told us
we're gonna go down, three of us. We wind up going in the back of a police car. We had grabbed spare mask assemblies from upstairs. We had two of them.
3 Ratazzi
There was three of us in the car. When we got down there we were parked -- the police dropped us off on West Street and we proceeded down West Street. We checked the rigs. We found 16, we checked the rig. We got two cylinders off of that. We had gotten
face pieces here.
We proceeded down. We found a fire patrol. We
got a third mask out of fire patrol and we grabbed some tools off of 16, what we could find, and we proceeded south on West Street. We wanted to meet up with 16 and we were gonna go to work with them, if we could find them. We were headed south. I believe, according to the Lieutenant, we were looking for the command post. We came under the north crosswalk on West Street. We got in front of the Marriott when what sounded like another plane coming in. Everybody was -- a group of guys, I
can't remember which companies they were all from, everybody just stopped and looked up and that's when the middle of the Marriott blew out at us.
Everybody took off running north. At least myself and Rob and Lieutenant Murphy did.
I ducked on the back step of Rescue 1, which
was under the north crosswalk. They ducked in front
4 Ratazzi
of Rescue 1. I don't know whether it was under the rig or in one of the rigs. Then in a couple of seconds everything got black. I heard a gentleman yelling for help. I didn't know if it was Rob or
Ray so I yelled out to him, "Keep yelling. I'll find him."
I came across what wound up was either a plane clothes cop, a security guard or a civilian. I'm
not sure. He wasn't injured. He just had to find
his way out. So I lead him back out to West and Vesey. Once he got out to members out there I
turned around, proceeded back down West Street where I eventually met up with Lieutenant Murphy and Firefighter Curatolo who had come across I
believe -- it was a fireman. I believe it might
have been a chauffeur to an Engine Company. I'm not sure which company. They told me to drop my tools and assist him back out to EMS, because I believe
his shoulder was all broken. It was approximately about two blocks back up to Vesey.
I left my tools there. They said they were
going to stay together so I left my tools. I took
him back out to Vesey. When I came back there was no sign of my tools, there was no sign of Lieutenant
5
Ratazzi
Murphy or Firefighter Curatolo. I proceeded to look
around. There was a lot of rigs in the area. I was looking for flashlights, any lights for people
searching or anybody in general. There was nobody around. I eventually came across a chief that came
out of the loading dock on West Street and I
informed him that I was missing two guys from Ladder 16 and that we didn't have radios, and he informed
me that the area had been evacuated and that ladder 16 had been evacuated and they went through the loading dock and out to the water, the Battery Park marina area. I said, "Are you sure?" And he said, "Yeah. I don't know which Chief it was.
So I proceeded down through the loading dock.
I went out to the water. I found nobody from 16 Truck, but what I didn't know was Ladder 16 was the last truck at the command post waiting to go to work and the Chief was actually talking about them and
not Lieutenant Murphy and Firefighter Curatolo who I was with. So I proceeded assisting a couple of
guys, I don't know from which company. I was taking Firefighter Reeg from 44 Engine up to EMS. So I assisted in getting Firefighter Reeg up to EMS. I switched the fire patrol mask for a Fire Department
6 Ratazzi
assembly that was up there and I proceeded back down Vesey Street, going back towards West Street. I got up as far as a little bus stop and the house for the parking garage or for the parking lot that was on
the corner of West and Vesey when the north tower came down.
So I turned back, I ran up Vesey towards the water. I got blown off my feet. I looked up, I was in front of what I believe was the Merrill Lynch building or the entrance. There was a glass atrium entranceway that had the statue of like four people. The four glass doors were open so I ducked into there. I shut the glass doors behind me and a wall of black smoke and soot and everything else came past us. It was about ten to fifteen people came running through the building that I guess were working there. They weren't firemen. They were looking for a way out. I informed them to stay with me, that the street was here and once everything lifted, if you go out, go left towards the water.
When it all lifted, they went left. I hooked
up with two guys, I believe they were from Queens.
I informed them who we were missing and we went back down West Street thinking they might have come north
7 Ratazzi
again on West Street. We got up to the corner of West and Vesey. We were up by 5 Truck when a gentleman threw a chair out of, I guess, the 6 World Trade Center. He was on the floor below the top,
the second set of windows in from the corner of West Street and Vesey. He threw the chair out the middle window. I remember he was wearing a white shirt, black tie, had a mustache, black hair, like nothing had happened to him. It was about the only windows left intact. Like his office door was closed. So
we yelled up to him not to jump, that there would be people coming to get him. Which there was companies on the way down going up there.
At the same time we heard yells for help from
the crosswalk, the north crosswalk which had
collapsed. We came upon what I believe was a photographer and two other people. The only one
that was injured was the photographer whose leg was busted and he was laying against the vehicle. So we
went back down Vesey to get a back board by the
marina -- by the water. Excuse me. We grabbed two EMS workers, we came back down and we got him on the backboard. He was a rather large individual. He
started throwing up, he started going in and out of
8 Ratazzi
consciousness. We tried to give him a little air
from the mask. That made him even more nauseous. He wanted to sit up so we kind of rolled him on his side. After that he was pretty much out of it. We
got him up, we tried to get him over the debris. We had a problem lifting him up and over the debris.
We yelled for help. Two women Police Officers were standing a little north of us. They finally came
over and helped us and we brought him up to EMS up on Vesey and then after that we let the guys know that I had to go get some oxygen because I was having a problem breathing and I was having a problem seeing from all the debris in my eyes.
They informed me -- actually somebody had taken me into one building. When we got in there they informed me that the EMS was moved up towards the Battery Park area. So I went back on Vesey towards the water looking for oxygen and came across Chief Callan. I informed him who I was missing. He seemed to be in somewhat of a state of shock. He
was being assisted by I believe it was EMS. So I proceeded north because they were moving EMS north to North End Avenue. So we got up to I guess by the time everybody stopped, I guess it was up by
9 Ratazzi
Stuyvesant High School.
BATALLION CHIEF KENAHAN: I think that
might be Chambers.
A. Which might be Chambers and North End, where I was assisted to by EMS. The lady gave me some water and I started throwing up. She told me just keep drinking it and throwing it up if I had
to, to get everything out. She asked me after about ten minutes how I felt. I informed her that I was still lightheaded but I didn't have the headache
that I had. I let her know to save the oxygen. I was gonna go back out towards the street.
I went into I guess where they were setting EMS up in the building. I found the sink, I was
flushing my eyes out. I got another drink of water, I was throwing that up. I proceeded out to the backside of the school, I ran into Firefighter Drum and Firefighter Meyers from Engine 39. They assisted me back out to West Street, because I believe they were evacuating that area. There was a gas leak.
When I got out to West Street, I guess it was
the Hotzolah Ambulance Service was there. They wound up flushing my eyes for about 15, 20 minutes
10 Ratazzi
and giving me oxygen and then they proceeded to take me to St. Vincent's where I pretty much got a scrub down, checked out. They didn't really do anything and released me. I then went into the Emergency Room to see if I could find any members from my company. The only one I had come across was Chief Cassano and I called his family and informed them that he was all right. I stuck with him. He told
me to stay with him and he wound up giving me a ride back up to the firehouse here where I stayed for an hour and then went back down to the command center on West 67th Street where we sat there for a couple
of hours. That's about it.
BATALLION CHIEF KENAHAN: Thank you for
your help, Rich. The time now is 1116 and this concludes the interview.
File No. 9110452
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER JOHN SNOW
Interview Date: January 13, 2002
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
2 Snow
BATALLION CHIEF KENAHAN: Today is January 13, 2002, and the time is 12:22 p.m. and this is Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan from the Safety Battalion for the Fire Department of the City of New York. I am conducting an interview with Firefighter John Snow from Engine 21, in the quarters of Engine 8.
Q. John, just tell us the events as you recall them from September 11th.
A. Okay. We got assigned on a fifth alarm, responding to the north tower. We got down there, I'd say, pretty quickly. I believe we parked the rig on Vesey, near the north passenger walkway. We responded in and we took -- the captain said take some extra oxygen air bottles with us. So we got our roll-ups and we went into the north tower. By then I guess it was really bad on
the upper floors, because we weren't inside the lobby long before they
started jumping. You could hear the tremendous sounds, hitting the
concrete. And it seems like it took a little while before we got orders
of what to do. Because when we were in the lobby the second tower
had already been hit and people started
3
Snow
running and yelling, "There is another plane coming
at the building." So we didn't know at the time it was finally a military plane. We thought it was another hijacker or whatever. We didn't know it was hijackings at the time so people were just running around the lobby of the north tower, thinking that we were under another attack and then that turned out not to be true.
So I guess it was another, I'd say, ten minutes
before we finally got a assignment. I remember the
captain saying, I guess the Chief told him, we're
not trying to put the fire out now. We're going to
try to save people. So we, along with 22 Engine and
13 Truck, we went over to the elevators and myself
and I think it was Mike Byrne, he opened -- someone
had said that there was someone inside an elevator
in the lobby and we managed to pry open the elevator and there was
a woman in the back. She was scared to death. We got her to come
out. And then 13 Truck got an elevator to work, because we were
assigned to go up to the 27th floor of the north tower. This was the out from
13 Truck, he started operating the elevator. Guys went up in two or three trips. I guess within five minutes 22 Engine,
4
Snow
13 Truck and myself, 21 Engine, we were on the 27th
floor. We took it to the 24th or 25th floor and then
we walked up a couple of flights and I'm not really sure of the time frame as far as how long we were in searching that floor, but I knew there was a tremendous crash of the south tower coming down, but we didn't know at the time it was the south tower.
We just thought it was upper floors maybe that -- maybe an upper floor that had collapsed, because there was a tremendous crash and everybody just hit the deck. Nothing happened after that so we really weren't sure what was happening. We weren't really getting any radio communications and so the Captain just said, you know, we kept searching the floor.
It didn't seem like there was anyone on that floor. And then I guess after another couple of minutes
the Battalion Chief, I'm not sure of his name, but I think he
was with the 12th Battalion, he came on to the floor
and he said, we're evacuating. He said, "This floor is clear. We're evacuating everybody out." So we just started going towards
the exit and Captain Burke said, all right -- he
figured the stairwells were gonna be crowded. He
said, "If we get separated or whatever, we'll all
5 Snow
meet at the rig." So we started our way down and the stairs were very crowded. Guys were helping civilians still coming down. There was a person in a wheelchair. So the descent down probably took fifteen to twenty minutes. I didn't have a radio,
but Mike Byrne had a radio. He said -- I don't know how far behind the Captain was from us, but he had talked to the Captain a couple of times on the way down the stairs on the radio and the Captain said to him a couple of times to meet, we'll all meet at the rig. I guess the last time he talked to him was
when we hit the lobby floor. He must have said, I guess, "Everybody meet at the rig."
I remember when we got to the lobby floor 65 Engine had just
gotten down also and that's when one of the guys of 65 told me the other tower had collapsed, because I still hadn't known it up until then. And we saw some guys from 2 Truck in the lobby. They said they were just waiting for their Captain and they were gonna be getting out.
So there were still some people from those fire floors that were trapped upstairs, I think a couple
of people still hadn't jumped. Somebody was saying in the lobby, "Somebody got hit about a jumper. You
6 Snow
guys gotta be careful even leaving the building."
So we started moving out towards West Street.
It was myself, Mike Byrne, Jimmy Foley started walking towards West Street and I guess we just hit West Street when we heard the roar or the rumbling. We just looked back and heard the rumbling of the tower coming down and everybody just ran up West Street towards where an overpass was.
Q. Was that the north overpass?
A. Yes. Heading north. It was kind of like
you knew that the dust and everything was catching
you. The guys just started diving, tried to dive behind something and then dust and other debris just overcame everybody. Everybody was just trying to get cover behind something and then just,
you know, it kind of took a long time for all of that to lift. And then everybody was just trying to think of where everybody else was. Did all our guys make it, get
out? You know, just communications were pretty bad
so we just tried to hope that everybody got out. It took a while before we finally gathered all the guys back together again and the only guy, you know, that eventually hadn't got out was the Captain. We weren't sure about our chauffeur because it took a
7 Snow
while before we were ever able to get in contact
with the chauffeur, because he was running from the rig because our rig got pretty much destroyed and he said he was lucky. He had just walked away from the rig a little ways when it was coming down so he had a chance, he was able to run far enough so he didn't get hit with all the debris.
Then just everybody -- the next couple of hours it's kind of foggy, but everybody was just kind of like walking down towards the collapse. You know, trying to find out where everybody was. So everybody was pretty much in shock or whatever. That's as much as I really remember about everything.
BATALLION CHIEF KENAHAN: Okay, John. The time now is 1232 and this concludes the interview.
File No. 9110453
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER PATRICK CONNOLLY
   Interview Date:  January 13, 2002
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
2
     January 13, 2002 and this is Battalion Chief
     Dennis Kenahan from the Safety Battalion for
     the Fire Department of the City of New York.
     I'm conducting an interview with Firefighter
     Patrick Connolly from Ladder 16, in the
     quarters of Ladder 16.  The time now is 1135.
     Q.   Patrick, just tell us the events as you
recall them on September 11th.
     A.   Basically I live in Queens and my house
looks right at the tower, and I was jogging and not
too far from Haz-Mat 288 and saw the first explosion
and immediately, you know, saw what was developing
and knew it was something pretty serious.  My
brother Brian who works for Ladder 17, he was at
home so I decided to run to his house and just let
him know, make sure he was aware of what was going
on.  When I got to his house we turned on the TV,
and when we turned on the TV we saw the second plane
hit.
So we decided right then and there that we were just gonna go in on our own accord and he had said tomehewasgonnagoin. HehadtogototheBronx to get his bunker gear. I said I had been issued my
            Connolly
BATALLION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today is
3
                      Connolly
two sets of bunker gear the night before from the
Quarter Master.  So I said, "We'll just use my
stuff."  We used a 1620 key over on haz-mat and got
a helmet and a pair of boots from -- because you
only get bunker gear with a pair of boots and a
jacket, two sets.  So that's what we did.  We went
to haz-mat and they were all gone already at that
stage.  We looked on the vacation list, took the
helmet from one of those and we made our way through
the Midtown Tunnel.  My brother drove us -- my other
brother drove us to the Midtown Tunnel.
     We got off there, we jumped into a police bus
going in and that police bus drove us to the
intersection of Canal and West Broadway.  Just as we
were entering into the Midtown Tunnel the first
tower collapsed and, you know, kind of just getting
ready as we were riding in and my brother's telling
me, "I don't know what to expect."
     And we got off at Canal and West Broadway and
we're looking down on the tower.  There was a lot of
debris in the area.  From up there, from the
collapse of the first tower and we decided to walk.
We you can walked about a block and then a Police
Ford Explorer picked us up.  It was a mounted,
4
                      Connolly
actually that had a horse carriage on the back of
it, and they drove us three blocks north of the
Trade Center, which would have been the intersection
of West Broadway and Warren Street.  And we got out
there and he said he couldn't take us any further.
So as soon as we got out of the car then the debris
field was a lot thicker and basically you could see
the tower burning and stuff, but you couldn't
really -- you couldn't pick out fine details and we
just saw people running around aimlessly.  So we
were just grabbing them and shouting at them and
pointing them in the right direction.  A couple of
people couldn't -- they were just sitting down.
They refused to get up.  We picked them up and
carried them out a little bit and then they kind of
got the message and they moved on of their own
accord.
     We walked down and we saw somebody and we asked
them where the firemen were and they said down and
to the right, which would have led us right to the
command center.  Down to Vesey Street make a right
turn.  That's what our approach was.  When we got to
the intersection of Park Place I think it is and
West Broadway there was a EMS bus there, a EMS SUV
5
saw a search rope and we saw a medical bag.  We
thought they would come in handy so we broke the
window and took that stuff out.  The Scott mask, I
tested it and it didn't work so I just left it where
it was.  We took the search rope and we took the
medical bag, and we just proceeded to walk south on
the north basically, but walking south towards Vesey
Street.
     So when we come to the intersection of Vesey
Street and West Broadway, you have to go left or
right.  We were going right heading towards the West
Side Highway and as soon as you turn right, about
seven steps after you turn right there is an
overhead foot bridge that would lead from 7 World
Trade Center into 6 World Trade Center.  We were
coming over just there, right there and as we
approached that, the underside of it, I said to my
brother, "I said, this thing is gonna come down on
top of it."  And he said, "Then we'll just run to
the other side of it."  So as soon as we got under
it we ran to the other side of it and the debris was
falling so we were kind of cautious when we came
out.  We came out and maybe about one step past it
                      Connolly
and we looked inside and we saw a Scott mask and we
6
                      Connolly
and as we came past it my brother had said to me --
you know, the whole way down he was explaining to me
that this is nothing like what you deal with, what
you're expected to deal with.  He said, "There is a
lot of people gonna be hurt on the outside." He was
a policeman so he was all concerned about a
secondary device.
     So he was saying that, you know, he kept
drilling that into my head:  "Secondary device,"
"Secondary device," "Secondary device."  You know,
it's not over.  There is something else that's gonna
happen.  He goes if that first tower came down, he
said, this might go down too.  He was telling me not
to go into the buildings.  He said, basically, if
you see firemen we're gonna look for them and help
them immediately and if we see pedestrians, whoever
we saw we're gonna help them.
     Basically, when we got underneath to the other
side of that foot bridge, to the west side of that
foot bridge, he said to me, "You know, we should
probably split up at the next corner in case we get
jammed up in this thing together."  And I was just
like, you know, totally naive.  I just said, "No.
You're crazy."
7
                      Connolly
     And as soon as I said that, I felt the ground
shake and I looked up and the whole top of the tower
was starting to fall and my brother turned and he
didn't even look up.  He turned and there was
already about a foot of debris on the floor and as
he turned he went to push off with his legs, but he
was pushing too hard and he slipped in place and
fell.  And I reached down and as I turned again I
reached down and caught him right in the back of the
pants and I threw him.  I lifted him off the ground
and I threw him up to his feet and I threw him too
hard and he actually fell down again underneath the
foot bridge and he got up again and I got up again
and I basically came -- the foot bridge was there.
I got to the corner of West Broadway and as soon as
I got to the corner of West Broadway, I made a right
turn.  As soon as you make a right turn on West
Broadway right there, not even a foot north on West
Broadway there is a service entrance to 7 World
Trade right there and I saw another fireman standing
right there.  He was standing right there.  Chides
me like "In here, bro.  Dive in here."  The door was
closed, but it was inset, you know, 18 inches as is
normally, a normal 36-inch door would be.  As I make
8
                      Connolly
a left, I saw my brother who was directly behind me.
And I just left my feet.  I drove for the one corner
and as I dove for the one corner I saw that my
brother was out here, right out in the wide open
spot.
     The next thing, I just started getting crushed
from above.  I was just getting hit.  But nothing
hard.  Like just, you know, considerable smacks and
stuff like that, but nothing that you couldn't take.
Nothing that was pulverizing me.  And I took my
T-shirt, shoved it into my mouth, held my nose
closed, took one last breath and waited to die.
     Apparently it got a little bit harder and the
noise got really severe.  It sounded like a severe
wind storm, a severe rainstorm.  The next thing I
know, like maybe a half a minute passes by and it
suddenly got very quiet again.  So I get very quiet.
I kind of threw my shoulder like that and all the
things that were on top of me kind of shifted off
and I couldn't believe it.  I couldn't believe that
you're alive.  I tried to scream for my brother, but
I had the shirt in my mouth.  I tried to pull the
shirt out a little bit, and all the air was forcing
into my mouth so I shoved it back in again.
9
                      Connolly
     I knew that the door was there on my left-hand
side.  That's the only thing I knew.  I didn't see
that other fireman.  The who was calling me, I
didn't see him.  I didn't see him, I didn't hear
him, but I knew the door was there.  So I hit it
like that (indicating), like three times like that
and then I heard three knocks coming back from about
5 feet off, which was where my brother was.  So I
kind of felt better about that.  At least I felt he
was okay because we couldn't communicate really
through talking and I just kept hitting the door and
hitting the door and hitting the door, and
eventually maybe ten minutes later I felt my
brother's arm grab my arm.  So of course obviously
you're emotional, you're grabbing each other and
hugging each other and going through the whole gamut
of emotions and while we're doing that, the door
pops open.
     We're not sure, you don't know what to think.
Is it an explosion?  Is the building starting to
settle and forcing the door out?  We didn't know.
And then as the door opened up the fireman that was
calling me was on the other side of the door.
Somehow he forced the door and was pulling us into
10
                      Connolly
the space, into the -- now basically into the belly
of 7 World Trade and he explained that he was a Fire
Marshal, named Joe Brosi and my brother Brian, he
knew Joe before he was a Fire Marshal working 17
truck.  So he and my brother, they were partners.
It was like a real strange coincidence.  Obviously a
very happy one again to get together.  The radio,
Joe's radio, he was the only one that had a radio.
He was the only one actually working that day.  His
radio was starting to go crazy.  I heard maydays on
his radio and I heard, you know, there was a lot of
confusion on the radio and I was all excited and
they thought, Brian and Joe thought that we were in
a fall out shelter, but it was getting dustier and
dustier.  The conditions were getting -- the
visibility was starting to deteriorate a lot.
     The only thing I knew, that I wanted to do was
I wanted to go back out the door that we came in and
make a left turn and walk straight up West Broadway
out to safety.  They were a little bit more
controlled.  They decided to stay put about five
minutes.  And think things through and they were
gonna go down.  There were some interior stairs and
they were gonna go down to probably more like a bomb
11
                      Connolly
shelter area and I think when Joe looked, it looked
like it was destroyed.  So we decided that we would
tie the search rope off to the doorway and the three
of us hand in hand decided that we would walk out.
And as we came out we started to walk north and
slowly but surely and up and over and under steel
and cars were -- cars with tires and cars were
popping and they were just starting to light up
spontaneously and there was near zero visibility at
this stage.  It was better though than it was right
after the collapse.  And then we walked up two
blocks.  We walked up, there was a hot dog stand
there.  We broke the window in the hot dog stand,
took bottles of water and we were washing our eyes,
because our eyes were burning.  We made a left on
Park Place.  We got to the corner of Park Place and
I'm not sure what street that is right there, but
basically that intersection here, right in that
corner right there there was an office building and
we ran into that office building and we ran in and
we were washing our face and getting all this stuff
out of our eyes and we reached over and there was a
doorman there and we asked him, "Is everybody out of
the building?"  He said, "Well, I just want to check
12
                      Connolly
the second and the third floor."  So we said, "well,
we'll just get cleaned up and we'll help you out."
So we went in, we got cleaned up and we helped him
out searching the building.  Then we came down
again.  When we came down, we're right over here at
this stage (indicating).
     Q.   So that's the corner of Park and -- we're
not sure what street that is.
     A.   Right.
     Q.   Okay.  It's between West and --
     A.   -- and West Broadway.
     Q.   And West Broadway.  Okay.
     A.   And one block -- exactly one block west of
West Broadway or one block east of the West Side
Highway.  And right when we were there at that
corner you looked back on what is going on and
somebody had screamed that one of the buildings,
surrounding buildings was coming down as well.  So
we told that guy, "You gotta come with us."  He was
pretty hesitant.  We said, "You gotta come and
that's it" and he decided to join with us and he
started to move.
     As we started to move north on that street I
ran into staff Chief Mike Butler, who was a friend
13
                      Connolly
of our family's and immediately grabbed him and he
was looking -- he wasn't really in great shape
either.  He just basically was kind of all dusty
just like we all were and just kind of trying to put
some sort of plan of action into place and he said,
"Pat" --  he said, "Pat, you set up over there for
ladders and give me another line over there for
engines."  And that's what we did.  We just tried to
get people together and get ladders on one side and
engines on the other side, when a call came through
again that there was a bomb in the area.  Then we
all got to the West Side Highway and we ran towards
Manhattan community college.  That's pretty much
where we stayed then like everybody else until about
midnight that night when we were one of the first
companies to go back in searching on the main pile
of debris.  And that's pretty much it.  I didn't see
any -- you know, because of the timing of
everything, approaching it from the north side it
was really, really quiet.  There wasn't many --
there was no apparatus at all on West Broadway.
There was nothing at all.  No firemen really at all
on that street.  I didn't see any of them at all.  I
didn't see any of them in front of me.  I had hoped
                      Connolly
that we were gonna meet up with them.
14
Unfortunately, I don't have any information
regarding to who and when and where, and that's
about it.
          BATALLION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Okay, Pat.
     Thank you for your help.  The time now is
     1150 and this concludes the interview.
File No. 9110454
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        PARAMEDIC KENNETH DAVIS
   Interview Date:  January 15, 2002
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
K. DAVIS
2
          LIEUTENANT DUN:  The date is January 15,
2002.  The time is 1540 hours.  My name is Richard Dun
of the New York City Fire Department.  I'm conducting
an interview with the following individual:
          PARAMEDIC DAVIS:  Kenneth Davis, paramedic,
Shield No. 3204 of Battalion 22.
     Q.   In your own words, could you please tell us
what happened on the day of September 11th, 2001.
     A.   The morning of September 11th, I was going to
do some volunteer work for Mark Green in Manhattan, and
we met in Long Island City at the union office.  From
the union office we were going over to the city, a
bunch of us in a van, and we took the 59th Street
bridge.  As we were driving over the 59th Street
bridge, just looking out the window, we saw a plane hit
the World Trade Center, what we thought was a plane,
and out of disbelief, I was like did anybody else just
see that?  They're like what?  I said a plane just hit
the Trade Center.  Everybody was like, oh, yeah,
right.  When they looked, you could see the flames and
the smoke starting and they're like, wow, it must have
been one of the little planes.  I said, no, it looked
like a jet.  So now everybody was in panic because we
didn't know, it was a clear day and we figured, well,
K. DAVIS
3
is it terrorists, is it accidental?  It was such a
clear day, you can avoid it but...
          So we went over to Mark Green's office and we
got on the phone and called to see where they needed
us.  We figured if something big like that, you'd find
out where everybody's got to be.  They asked us to go
up to Metropolitan to pick up an ambulance up there and
whatever equipment they could give us.  A bunch of us
shot up there in a van.  From there we went down the
FDR Drive towards the Trade Center and there were just
thousands of people running towards you on the FDR.  It
was surreal.
          So we got down to South Street, to the ferry
terminal, and set up a triage station.  There was a
doctor there, an anesthesiologist, I believe Mark Heath
was his name.  I know he shot a lot of video on his
digital camera while he was there also.  I helped him
set up triage in an area upstairs in the ferry
terminal.
     Q.   Were you receiving a lot of patients at this
time?
     A.   Not what we were expecting because a lot of
people were just getting out of there.
     Q.   Running by you.
K. DAVIS
4
     A.   Just running.  Basically, you saw people that
were wounded and you were grabbing them because they
were in such a state of shock that they didn't know
what was going on any more than you did and they just
wanted to get out of there.  Some people, as you were
grabbing them, they didn't want to sit still for
anything, so you were just grabbing their clothes and
using their clothing as bandages and just say okay,
fine, hold this and keep going, you know, don't go back
that way.  I saw some patients at the ferry, and the
building had already collapsed, the first tower, so we
went down, a couple of us, to the site to see if we
could help down there, and it was just sheer madness.
You couldn't see anything with all the dust in the air.
     Q.   Did the first building go down yet?
     A.   Yes, the first building had already come
down.
Q. Okay.
     A.   What made it really bad was just trying to
breathe.  It's not fog, it's ash, and you could only
see so far.  But, literally, we didn't have masks yet
or anything because we just were there.  We found
bottled water or whatever and cracked hydrants.  You
were just scooping water into your mouth and spitting
K. DAVIS
5
mud out and people were running by you and they're
running in every direction because they didn't know
which way to go.
     Q.   Was there a lot of chaos and confusion?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Did you see any officers from the service?
     A.   There were police officers everywhere,
firemen everywhere, apparatus all over the place.  It
was kind of like a discotheque, the easiest way to
describe it, the lights from the trucks and the fog
machines, that's how it looked, and people screaming
and just running and you're tripping over each other.
     Q.   So did you leave your vehicle at the South
Street Seaport?
     A.   We were transported up.  They had taken a
couple of patients to the hospital.
     Q.   Which one?  Beekman?
     A.   I believe Beekman.  So we hopped a ride up
and jumped down from there and ran up there.
     Q.   And went on foot?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   So at this time you had no longer --
     A.   I no longer had a vehicle.  But they were
everywhere.  Some were crushed already, melted
K. DAVIS
6
looking.  But they were everywhere.  The keys were in
them.  You could get in if you needed it and go.  But
it was a mess, going through the ashes, some places a
foot thick, two feet thick.
     Q.   This is still the first building?
     A.   Yes.  The second building had just started to
come down and you could feel the rumble in the ground,
and we were like, it can't be the train because you
know it's not running.  So we all started to run down
the street and the building had come down.
     Q.   Which way did you run?
     A.   Honestly, I don't remember which street I was
on.  It was just, like I said, it was chaos, and
running down the block I had tripped and fallen and my
left knee blew out and I fell on it and I was in a lot
of pain.  I was just holding it and a fireman and a
police officer grabbed me and dragged me up the
street.  But meanwhile, while I was laying there, I
reached down to see what I had fell over and it was
somebody's lower leg that had apparently got blown off
them in the explosion.  So that was pretty sick to say
the least.
          I got up the street, got some tape from one
of the firemen up at the corner that had some supplies,
K. DAVIS
7
I taped up my knee and I kept working.  Again, it was
just trying to get people out of there, get them to
different hospitals and whatever.
     Q.   Did you see any EMS officers that you
recognized?
     A.   At Ground Zero you'd see so many people.
     Q.   Do you remember in what location around
Ground Zero?
     A.   Over on the side of -- well, I saw some
people by Trinity Church.
     Q.   So that's down here.  Trinity is down this
way.
     A.   Then over on the other side by City Hall.
     Q.   City Hall is over this way.
     A.   Yes.  They were setting up in a building.
They were starting to set up inside one of the
buildings over there.
     Q.   So you were more on --
     A.   On this side, yes.
     Q.   The east side; you were on the east side?
     A.   Right.  The eastern side, yes.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   It was on Broadway, I believe, a building on
Broadway.  They were setting up inside the building
K. DAVIS
8
that they wanted to get patients in there and that
building started to tremble a little.  So they said,
hey, let's get out of here, too.  So everything we had
just brought in there we started handing back and forth
like a big convoy, just handing it back and forth to
each other out of there.  Then they were going to set
up in City Hall Park, and I said you can't, it's
outside, you can't have patients in all this soot, you
can't breathe.  So then they were moving them down to
another building over that way and I said, well, they
had enough people there.  My knee is really hurting.  I
said, if something else collapses, I'm not going to be
able to run, so let me get back down to the ferry
terminal and help there.  So that's when I went back to
the ferry terminal.
     Q.   That was South Ferry?
     A.   Right.
     Q.   Because they had (inaudible)?
     A.   Yes.  This is Whitehall Street, whatever it
is.
     Q.   South Ferry.
     A.   So we were over there and we had the triage
set upstairs, and basically it was just a lot of bumps
and bruises that we were seeing because a lot of people
K. DAVIS
9
were just getting on boats and ferry boats and leaving
and they had barges that pulled up, people just got on
them to get them out of the city, to get them over to
Brooklyn or to Jersey, wherever they took them.  But it
was a lot of bumps and bruises, a few broken bones,
gashes, cuts.  It was not as many patients as we really
thought we were going to see.
     Q.   Did you see anybody that were missing that
you know of?
     A.   Not that I know of.  I know people that are
missing or have been declared dead and I know of them.
I don't recall if I saw them or not that morning
because some of them I was close to, I honestly don't
remember if I saw them that morning or if I'm just
remembering them in my head because I saw lots of
people there.  It's just crazy.  It was craziness.
You'd hear the alarms from some of the firemen's Scott
packs going off.
     Q.   Did you have a radio that day?
     A.   No.  I didn't have radios they give out, and
if you had one, you couldn't get through to anybody
because everybody was screaming.
     Q.   That was the thing, because they're trying to
clarify, people who had radios, were they able to
K. DAVIS
10
communicate?
     A.   I don't think so.  Like every fireman that I
was around that had one --
     Q.   Mayday Mayday.
     A.   It was all Maydays, it was guys yelling we're
over here, we're over there, we got one here.  It was
nuts.  The police that were down there were really --
they were phenomenal.  They were just grabbing stuff
and helping everybody.  The firemen, they're used to
doing the disaster stuff, but it was just so
overwhelming.  But the police were really -- they were
a lot of help.  I would say, hey, can you grab this and
they were like yeah.  It was really good.
     Q.   So about what time did you wrap up?
     A.   Well, I went back to the ferry terminal after
I got hurt and I stayed there until almost 11:00
o'clock that night before they told me it's now time
for me to go to the hospital.  I would have stayed.  I
guess the adrenaline keeps you going.
     Q.   Did you go to the hospital?
     A.   Yes.  I ended up going on the ferry over to
Staten Island to St. Vincent's.  They x-rayed me,
medicated me and all, and I went home.  Since then I've
had to have surgery on my leg.
K. DAVIS
11
          But it was pretty intense over there.  I know
guys that were looking for their ambulances when they
went back, they weren't there.  Somebody could have
just used it or whatever.  But it was weird.  You'd go
down the street and see parts of an airplane, the
wheels, that were in the middle of an intersection in
one corner and it's part of a plane.  You don't expect
to see that in Manhattan.
          LIEUTENANT DUN:  Okay.  This concludes the
interview with Kenneth Davis.  The time now is 1550
hours.

FILE NO 9110455
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW PARAMEDIC JOSEPH JEFFERSON
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 16 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY NANCY FRANCIS

JEFFERSON
LIEUTENANT DUN TODAY IS JANUARY 16 2002 THE TIME IS 740 MY NAME IS RICHARD DUN WORKING WITH
THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH
PARAMEDIC JEFFERSON JOSEPH JEFFERSON PARAMEDIC FROM BATTALION ZO SHIELD NO Z410
IN YOUR OWN WORDS CAN YOU JUST TELL US WHAT HAPPENED ON THE DAY OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
BASICALLY WE WERE DOING OUR TOUR OF DUTY OR WE WERE IN THE BEGINNING STAGES OF OUR TOUR OF DUTY AND WE WERE AT BRONX LEBANON HOSPITAL WE WERE IN THE
BRONX WHICH IS ABOUT 173RD STREET AND GRAND CONCOURSE WHEN WE HEARD THAT PLANE HAD STRUCK THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WE WERE STILL BASICALLY FINISHING UP THEN WE HEARD THAT THE SECOND PLANE HIT WE WERE IN CONTACT WITH THE DISPATCHER WHO SAID THAT SHE NEEDED SOME
UNITS TO GO DOWN THERE SO WE WERE DISPATCHED TO GO DOWN TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER SO WE LEFT FROM THERE AND WENT DOWN TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
HIGHWAYS
BASICALLY
DID YOU TAKE THE STREETS OR DID YOU GO TO THE
WE TOOK THE STREETS TO THE HIGHWAY
OKAY WHEN YOU GOT DOWN THERE HOW WAS IT

JEFFERSON
WHAT WAS IT LIKE WHEN YOU PULLED UP OR WHEN YOU GOT CLOSE TO THE SITE
WELL ONCE WE GOT WE TOOK THE FDR AND WE CAME AROUND THE BACK THE BACK WAY UP WEST STREET FROM
SOUTH FERRY
SOUTH FERRY THAT EXIT WHEN WE GOT DOWN
THERE IT WAS JUST ALMOST LIKE DEATH SILENCE
GUESS YOU COULD SAY IT LOOKED LIKE WAR ZONE GUESS
DID YOU SEE LOT OF DEBRIS
YOU COULD SEE PART OF THE PLANE OR WHAT WE
THOUGHT MIGHT
THERE WERE BODY PARTS
HAVE BEEN THERE WERE CARS ON FIRE
WAS THERE LOT OF CHAOS PEOPLE RUNNING
TRYING TO GET AWAY
FROM THE ANGLE THAT WE APPROACHED FROM THAT
SIDE THERE WASNT LOT GOING ON THERE WERE NUMEROUS VEHICLES THAT WERE HEADING TOWARDS GROUND ZERO
GUESS WHICH IS WHAT WE CALL IT NOW
AT THAT POINT WHEN YOU GOT THERE DID THE
FIRST
DOWN
BUILDING COLLAPSE ALREADY
NO WE GOT THERE BEFORE THE BUILDINGS CAME
BEFORE THE BUILDINGS CAME DOWN SO THE

JEFFERSON
BUILDINGS WERE STILL STANDING YES
OKAY
SO AS WE DROVE UP GUESS WE GOT TO IM
LOOKING AT THE PICTURE NOW IM TRYING TO SEE WHERE IS WEST
SOMEBODY
STATION
THIS IS GOING UPTOWN AND THATS DOWNTOWN SO WE WERE COMING UP THIS WAY AND THERE WAS
LIBERTY AND WEST THERE WAS TRIAGE
WE ACTUALLY NEVER MADE IT UP TO THE TRIAGE CENTER THIS IS THE TOWER RIGHT HERE RIGHT
RIGHT
THIS IS THE FIRST ONE THAT CAME DOWN RIGHT
AS WE GOT TO ABOUT HERE TRAFFIC WAS BEING
DIVERTED TO GO FROM THE NORTHBOUND LANE TO THE SOUTHBOUND THEY WERE SETTING UP THE VEHICLES THERE
WE TURNED TO GO UP THAT WAY AND FIREFIGHTER CAME RUNNING OUT FROM ONE OF THE TOWERS AND HE WAS BASICALLY
SAYING ARE YOU GUYS MEDICS HE FLAGGED US DOWN ARE YOU GUYS MEDICS WERE LIKE YEAH WHATS GOING ON
HE SAID WELL ONE OF OUR FIREFIGHTERS IS DOWN AND WE

JEFFERSON
NEED SOME HELP WE HAVE EMTS IN THERE AND THEYRE SCREAMING FOR MEDICS SO STOPPED THE VEHICLE CAME
AROUND GRABBED MY TRAUMA BAG MY PARTNER GOT OUT OF THE VEHICLE AND SAID YOU WANT ME TO GRAB THE OTHER
STUFF OR WHAT SO SAID OKAY YEAH GRAB IT AND RUN AHEAD LITTLE BIT TO SEE WHAT THEY HAVE
IS THAT WHERE YOU LEFT YOUR VEHICLE AND THAT WAS THE LAST TIME YOU SAW THE VEHICLE OR YOU GOT BACK
TO IT
WE GOT BACK TO IT
OH OKAY BECAUSE PEOPLE LEFT VEHICLES
RIGHT SO GUESS THE VEHICLE WAS PARKED ON
LIKE THE SIDE STREET
ON THE WEST SIDE BEFORE LIBERTY
RIGHT SO AS WENT DOWN THAT BLOCK TOWARDS THE WORLD TRADE CENTER NO BUILDING THEY WERE
BRINGING HIM UP ON STRETCHER AND WE ACTUALLY MET HIM ON THE CORNER THERE AND THEY HAD THEIR VEHICLE AND THE BLS VEHICLE WAS THERE AND THEY WERE IN THE BACK SO JUMPED IN TO SEE AND IT WAS THE FIREFIGHTER WHO HAD THINK GOT HIT BY SOMEONE THAT HAD JUMPED OUT
DO YOU REMEMBER HIS NAME NO DONT RECALL

JEFFERSON
MY PARTNER IS MY PARTNER NEVER MET ME AT THE VEHICLE SO SHE SAID WELL JUST GO TO THE HOSPITAL
SO BASICALLY WHAT DID WAS WENT BACK INTO THE
VEHICLE GRABBED MY EQUIPMENT AND EXITED THE VEHICLE CLOSED THE DOOR AND THE BLS TOOK HIM TO THE
PLUS DONT KNOW WHERE

JEFFERSON
HOSPITAL WITH AHOUT FOUR FIREFIGHTERS
SO WENT BACK TO WHERE BELIEVED THE
VEHICLE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE BUT IT WASNT THERE SO
SAID WHERES MY BUS ANYBODY SEEN 302 ANYBODY SEEN 302 HE SAID YEAH YEAH HE WENT OFF THAT WAY SAID
WHAT HE SAID YEAH YOUR PARTNER TOOK THE VEHICLE SAID NO WAS LIKE HE DIDNT LEAVE ME KNOW HE
DIDNT SO IT WAS LIKE WHERE IS HE SO THEN WAS
LOOKING AROUND TURNED BACK AROUND AND RIGHT ABOUT WHERE HAD MET THE OTHER GUY MY PARTNER PULLED THE
VEHICLE UP HERE
TO LIBERTY
TO LIBERTY
TO TRY AND MEET US AND SOMEHOW WE MISSED
EACH OTHER BUT THE VEHICLE WAS THERE BUT HE WASNT SO WENT TO THE VEHICLE WENT TO OPEN THE DOOR AND THE DOOR WAS LOCKED WENT AROUND TO THE OTHER SIDE
TO TRY AND SEE IF COULD GET THE EQUIPMENT OUT AND AS
WAS STANDING THERE HEARD THIS RUMBLING AND LOOKED UP AND THE BUILDING WAS COMING DOWN
THAT WAS THE FIRST BUILDING COMING DOWN
THAT WAS THE FIRST BUILDING
OKAY
SO TOOK OFF AND ENDED UP HIDING ON
YES

RAN PAST THE NEXT
JEFFERSON
GUESS THATS 90 THE BUILDING THAT WAS OVER IS 90 WEST REMEMBER PASSED THAT
INAUDIBLE INTO THE BUILDING SO TURNED AROUND TO RUN INTO THE BUILDING BUT THE STUFF WAS COMING DOWN SO FAST THAT WASNT ABLE TO GET INTO THE BUILDING SO ENDED UP HIDING IN THE WINDOWSILL
TRYING TO COVER UP AND BASICALLY THE STUFF WAS COMING PAST ME LIKE AN AVALANCHE YOU KNOW IT SOUNDS LIKE FREIGHT TRAIN SO LOOKED BACK AND SAW LIKE THIS BIG PIECE OF WALL ABOUT IT HAD TO BE ABOUT MAYBE FOUR FEET LONG AND ABOUT THREE FEET WIDE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT IT CAME ACROSS MY BACK KNOCKED ME DOWN TO MY KNEES WAS LIKE GOD IM GOING TO GET BURIED ALIVE HERE BECAUSE THERE WASNT THAT MUCH SPACE
TRIED TO BREAK THE WINDOW TO GET INTO THE WINDOW AND THERE WAS FENCE GATE INSIDE OF THE WINDOW SO COULDNT CLIMB INTO THE BUILDING THROUGH THERE SO WAS JUST THERE WAITING UNTIL IT ALL STOPPED
ONCE IT STOPPED YOU KNOW IM SURE IT SOUNDS
VERY FAMILIAR IT WAS LIKE JUST NOTHING JUST SILENCE AND YOU COULDNT SEE BECAUSE OF THE CLOUD OF DUST
DID YOU HAVE RADIO THAT DAY HAD RADIO
WERE THERE ANY TRANSMISSIONS GOING ON
BUILDING

JEFFERSON
AT THAT POINT DIDNT HAVE THE RADIO
OKAY
BUT IT WAS JUST SILENCE THEN TRYING TO BREATHE IT WAS LIKE YOU STARTED COUGHING AND GAGGING THEN YOU STARTED HEARING PEOPLE CALLING OUT FOR HELP
INAUDIBLE STOOD THERE FOR COUPLE OF SECONDS AND
THEN HEARD COUPLE OF SECONDARY EXPLOSIONS AND SOME VEHICLES WERE ENGULFED IN FLAMES YOU KNOW THEY WERE
ON FIRE SO GO THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO BE HOPE
IM TALKING UP LOUD ENOUGH GRABBED MY TRAUMA BAGS AND PUT IT BACK ON MY SHOULDER AND STARTED FEELING AROUND CALLED OUT FOR HELP COUPLE TIMES FOR MYSELF AND THEN REALIZED IM SUPPOSED TO BE THE
HELP THEN
VOICE COME
WEST STREET
THAT IF THEY WERE FURTHER INTO WHERE THE BUILDINGS WERE THEY SHOULD PROBABLY COME OUT TOWARDS THIS WAY AND WALK UP TOWARDS THE SOUTH FERRY
SAW FEMALE COP SHE HAD FLASHLIGHT SO SHE WAS ABLE TO HELP DIRECT THE PEOPLE WHO WENT INTO
ONE OF THE BUILDINGS AND THEY HAD ALREADY HAD SOME WATER AND THEY HAD GARBAGE CANS FILLED WITH ICE SET
UP SO SOME PEOPLE CAME IN AND BEGAN TO LIKE WASH
STARTED TELLING PEOPLE COME TOWARDS MY TOWARDS MY VOICE BECAUSE KNEW WAS ON
DIDNT KNOW EXACTLY WHERE BUT KNEW

JEFFERSON
THEIR FACES OFF AND STUFF LIKE THAT THERE WAS VEHICLE PARKED VEHICLE 440 IT WAS PARKED LIKE IN
FRONT OF THAT BUILDING SO WENT INSIDE THAT VEHICLE AND HOOKED UP WITH AN EMT SHE WAS FROM JACOBI WITH GUY WHO WAS INJURED LITTLE BIT HE HAD HURT HIS LEG SO TREATED HIM
OKAY
WHAT ELSE MEAN IT WAS SO MUCH AS WAS
TREATING HIM ANOTHER EMT CAME IN AND HE WAS HURT MEDIC WAS BRINGING HIM AND SHE SAID EDDIES HURT BAD HE HAD GASH IN HIS BACK AND HIS ARM WAS BROKEN SO
SPLINTED
HIS ARM
EDDIE WHO
MARTINEZ
MARTINEZ
THE EMT HIS LAST NAME WAS JOSEPH
FROM JACOBI
FROM JACOBI LAMANNA WAS THE MEDIC THAT
BROUGHT EDDIE OVER THERE BUT AS SPLINTED HIS ARM
AND TREATED HIM INAUDIBLE AS SPLINTED HIS ARM WAS HELPING INAUDIBLE AND STUFF LIKE THAT AND WE TOLD
HIM GRAB SOME EQUIPMENT BECAUSE DONT THINK THAT THIS WOULD BE GOOD PLACE IT MIGHT BE COLLAPSE ITS DAMAGED OR CRUSHED IF NOT TOTALLY DESTROYED SO
10

JEFFERSON
SAID IF ANYTHING Z1SZ FALLS DIDNT KN MUCH OF THE BUILDING FELL DIDNT KNOW WHETHER IT WAS
JUST THE TOP OR WHATEVER SAID DONT WANT US
BEING INSIDE THE VEHICLE IS NOT GOING TO BE THE SAFEST
PLACE SO LETS JUST GRAB SOME EQUIPMENT COUPLE UP THE 02 AND BANDAGES AND STUFF LIKE THAT AND LETS GET INTO
THIS BUILDING BASICALLY WE WERE MOVING TOWARDS LIKE SAID BACK TOWARDS SOUTH FERRY HADNT SEEN ANY
SUPERVISION OR ANYBODY BASICALLY EXCEPT THE FEW PEOPLE THAT HAD BEEN
SO AS WE WENT INTO THE NEXT BUILDING SAID LETS GO INTO THIS NEXT BUILDING WAIT COUPLE OF SECONDS OTHER PEOPLE WERE COMING IN THATS WHEN MET UP WITH MY PARTNER WE BASICALLY EXPERIENCED ALMOST THE SAME THING HE WAS HIDING IN ANOTHER WINDOWSILL BECAUSE HE WAS UNABLE TO GET INTO THE BUILDINGS BUT AFTER THAT FEW MORE PEOPLE CAME IN AND WE SAID LISTEN WERE GOING TO TRY AND GET YOU GUYS OUT OF HERE JUST STAY PUT FOR SECOND AND JUST MAKE SURE THAT IT CLEARS UP LITTLE BIT AND WERE GOING TO GET YOU GUYS AS FAR TO SAFETY AS WE CAN
EDDIE MARTINEZ STARTED FEELING LITTLE BIT
WORSE THOUGHT THAT HE MIGHT BE DEVELOPING PNEUMOTHORAX BECAUSE OF THE SIZE OF THE GASH IN HIS
11

JEFFERSON
BACK IT WAS PRETTY DEEP SENT HIM WITH KAREN LAMANNA AND ANOTHER VOLUNTARY EMT IN STAIR CHAIR WITH OXYGEN TOWARDS THE TREATMENT AREA HEARD THERE WAS SOME KIND OF TREATMENT THERE AT SOUTH FERRY SAID
GET HIM DOWN THERE THEY HAD SOME BUSES OR WHATEVER AND SAID IM GOING TO DOUBLE BACK AND HELP THE PEOPLE THAT WERE LEFT
BUILDING STILL DIDNT COME DOWN YET NO AFTER THEY WENT DOWN
SOUTH
SOUTH WENT BACK AND SAID OKAY EVERYBODY LETS GET HEAD COUNT AND SEE HOW MANY
PEOPLE ARE IN HERE AND WERE GOING TO START SO
WENT BACK OUT SAID STAY HERE AND LET ME JUST MAKE
SURE THE COAST IS CLEAR AND AS THATS WHEN THE SECOND BUILDING BACK IN THE BUILDING IT FELT
WAS GOING OUT TO GO CAME DOWN SO RAN
LITTLE BIT BECAUSE IT WAS ONE OF THE BIG BUILDINGS
SAFER
SO SENT THEM AS FAR BACK INTO THE MIDDLE OF THE BUILDING AS
POSSIBLE THE WINDOWS WERE SHAKING IT WAS LIKE ALL OVER AGAIN
AFTER THAT SUBSIDED COUPLE MORE PEOPLE CAME TRICKLING IN AFTER CLEANING THEM UP WE DID
HEAD COUNT AND WE HAD LIKE ABOUT 20 PEOPLE SO LITTLE
12

JEFFERSON
BY LITTLE AS IT CLEARED UP WE BROUGHT THEM DOWN WENT INTO ANOTHER LITTLE PLACE YOU KNOW IT WAS LIKE TAKING THEM SECTION BY SECTION AND WE GOT ALL THE WAY DOWN TO WHERE THERES LIKE HEALTH CLUB OR SOMETHING THAT WAS DOWN THERE
NEW YORK CITY HEALTH AND RACQUET
RIGHT WE GOT THEM THERE AND TOLD THEM
LISTEN SAID REMEMBER MY NAME IM PARAMEDIC
JEFFERSON SAID IM GOING TO GET YOU GUYS OUT OF
HERE DONT KNOW EXACTLY HOW BUT JUST STAY PUT THERE ARE SOME BATHROOMS FACILITIES HERE AND THERE ARE
SOME PHONES IF YOU WANT TO MAKE PHONE CALL OR SOMETHING DO THAT AND ILL BE BACK IN COUPLE
MINUTES AND WERE GOING TO GET YOU OUT OF HERE
SO MY PARTNER AND LEFT THERE AND STARTED
WALKING DOWN TOWARDS SOUTH AND FUNNY THING LADY IN MINI SCHOOL BUS DRIVES BY AND SHES LIKE EXCUSE ME
NEED TO FIND THE
ACROSS IT SAID MAAM CANT
NEED TO GET
BROOKLYN BRIDGE
GET YOU ACROSS THE
YOUR HELP HAVE ABOUT 20 PEOPLE THAT NEED TO GET OVER TO THE HOSPITAL WOULD YOU MIND GIVING SOME ASSISTANCE SHE SAID DONT KNOW IVE GOT TO ASK MY BOSS IVE GOT TO ASK MY BOSS SO SHE CALLS AND
BROOKLYN BRIDGE
PROMISE YOU CAN SAID BUT NEED
13

JEFFERSON
INITIALLY HE GOES NO NO GET BACK TO THE HOUSE ITS LIKE CAN YOU TELL HIM HE HAS TO HAVE HEARD ON THE
NEWS WERE IN THE MIDDLE OF CRISIS HERE AND WE
REALLY NEED HIS HELP SO SHE SAYS THE PARAMEDICS REALLY NEED THE HELP AND HE WAS LIKE OKAY ITS LIKE
WHAT IS HE GOING TO SAY
YOU COULD HAVE COMMANDEERED THEM
BASICALLY THATS WHAT WE ENDED UP BASICALLY DOING SAID TELL HIM THAT YOURE GIVING US HAND WE NEED THE USE OF THIS VEHICLE SO WE TOOK IT BACK TO THE HEALTH AND RACQUET CLUB AND WE GOT ALL THE PEOPLE AND GOT THEM LINED UP WE HAD LADY WITH BABY THIS WAS LIKE AN INFANT STILL ONLY MAYBE MONTH OR TWO OLD GUY WITH TWO CATS AND LADY WITH LITTLE
IT ENDED UP BEING LIKE ABOUT 22 PEOPLE THAT WE PUT
INSIDE THE SCHOOL BUS AND WE DROVE THEM UP TO BELLEVUE HOSPITAL IN THE SCHOOL BUS
AFTER THAT WE DOUBLED BACK AND CAME BACK DOWN WE GOT AS FAR AS THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE SAID ILL TAKE YOU TO THE BRIDGE MAAM CANT PROMISE
YOU THAT YOULL GET ACROSS BUT CAN TAKE YOU THERE SO WE BROUGHT HER BACK DOWN THERE AND MY PARTNER AND
WALKED FROM THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE BACK TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AND WE TREATED SOME OTHER FIREFIGHTERS
14
DOG

JEFFERSON
DID YOU EVER MAKE IT TO TREATMENT CENTER OR
TRIAGE CENTER
FOR US TO GET LOOKED AT
NO FROM THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE YOU WENT BACK YOU JUST WERE FREE LANCING IN THE STREET
HELPING PEOPLE
ONCE WE GOT ALL THE WAY BACK THERE WE RAN
INTO ONE OF THE CHIEFS FORGET THE NAME AT THIS
TIME BUT BASICALLY ONCE WE GOT ALL THE WAY BACK DOWN THERE IT WAS STILL KIND OF CHAOTIC BUT THERE WAS
STILL LITTLE ORDER
TIME
THERE WAS AN EMS OFFICER AROUND AT THAT TIME YES THERE WAS AN EMS OFFICER AROUND AT THAT
OKAY
HE SAID LISTEN WANT YOU TO GATHER ALL OUR PEOPLE TRY AND KEEP THEM TOGETHER HERE HE SENT OUT
COUPLE OF GROUPS TO SCAVENGE SOME EQUIPMENT TOGETHER AND SO WE HAD LITTLE TREATMENT CENTER THAT WE WERE
SETTING UP RIGHT ON THINK IT WAS ACTUALLY RIGHT ON
LIBERTY
TOWARDS THE WATER
LIBERTY AND WEST SOUTH END AVENUE WE WERE LIKE UP IN HERE
SOUTH END AVENUE
15

JEFFERSON
SO THATS WHERE WE STAGED AND BASICALLY WE WERE TREATING PEOPLE AND WE WERE HELPING DIDNT
EVEN REALIZE THE EXTENT OF SOME OF OUR OWN THINK THAT WAS WE STAYED THERE DONT EVEN REMEMBER
EXACTLY WHAT TIME WE LEFT BUT KNOW MY PARTNERS SHOULDER BEGAN TO HURT MORE MY WRIST WAS LITTLE
SWOLLEN HAD CUT GOT COUPLE OF STITCHES
SO YOU BASICALLY STAYED LOT AFTER LIKE
AFTER 900 OCLOCK ROUGHLY
THINK WE EVENTUALLY GOT BACK HERE ABOUT
900 BETWEEN 800 AND 900 1000 OCLOCK SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE
THATS GOOD ENOUGH
WE WERE THERE WELL INTO THE EVENING
ALL RIGHT ANYTHING ELSE YOUD LIKE TO ADD
ANYTHING LIKE WHAT MEAN WHILE WAS THERE ALL THAT WE COULD DO WAS REALLY PRAY THAT WE
WOULD COME OUT ALIVE EVERYTHING WAS HAPPENING AND IT WAS JUST BASICALLY GODS MERCY THAT WE WERE ABLE TO
SURVIVE
LIEUTENANT DUN OKAY THAT CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW WITH MR JEFFERSON THE TIME IS 800
CLOCK
16
File No. 9110456
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         EMT WILLIAM TRUOCOLLO
   Interview Date:  January 16, 2002
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
W. TRUOCOLLO
2
          MR. DUN:  Today's date is January 16, 2002.
     My name is Richard Dun.  The time is 0700 hours.
     I'm with the New York City Fire Department.
     Q.   I'm conducting an interview with William --
     A.   Truocollo.
     Q.   Truocollo?
     A.   Battalion 26, shield number 1585, working 18
Charlie.
     Q.   Can you tell me in your own words the events
leading on September 11, 2001?
     A.   We were assigned to the tower collapse, at
which point we went down the -- we went local to
Manhattan, because the West Side Highway was backed
up.  Once we got down there, we parked in front of 125
Barclay and that's where we met Chief Wells.  He told
us to get everything on a stretcher, all our equipment,
and we walked with him and he staged us at Liberty and
West.  Just pretty much watching people jump or fall
out of the towers.  I don't really remember radio
transmissions because there was so much noise.  But we
maybe were there 10 minutes.
     Q.   Was there a lot of chaos when you pulled up?
     A.   Yes.  I mean we didn't know where to go
initially.  The Chief happened to pull up right next to
W. TRUOCOLLO
3
us.
     Q.   Were there a lot of civilians running around?
     A.   Yes, there was people running all over the
place.  A lot of emergency vehicles going back and
forth.  People almost getting hit by police cars and
everything shooting around over there.  So from the
whole time we were down there, when we went to the
staging area, maybe about 10 minutes, 15 minutes.  We
were told, grab the stretcher, we are going into -- I
don't even remember.  I think we were going into the
Marriott to stage in there.  I was just looking up to
make sure nobody fell or jumped on us.  We got in front
of the -- I believe it was the Marriott.  I just heard
somebody yell run.  I tried to run back towards the
staging area.
     Q.   Was that the first collapse?
     A.   Yes.  I woke up.  I was partially underneath
a -- I don't know.  It had to be some type of motor
vehicle, because I could see the exhaust and there was
a firemen digging my leg, because my legs got buried,
the rest of me was underneath the car.  That was it.
          I remember he pulled me out and I actually
thought a plane was coming because of the roaring
sound.  That's when he told me the tower collapsed.  We
W. TRUOCOLLO
4
went into what was supposed to be a safer location and
we were there maybe not even 5 minutes when they
evacuated us and then we heard -- I heard another
collapse.  I don't know if that was 7 or if that was
the other tower.
     Q.   That was probably the other tower.  7
collapsed much later.
     A.   Later.  I was already -- we went through the
 -- past the West Side Highway and they put me on a
boat, the Jersey City police harbor boat and that was
it.  I went to Jersey.
     Q.   That was the end of your day?
     A.   Yes.  I mean I was admitted there.  I had
various injuries and everything.
     Q.   Because I interviewed your partner
(inaudible) than getting hurt (inaudible), triage or
anything (inaudible).
     A.   Yes.  Like I said we were staging, we went
over there.  We were told by Chief Wells we are going
into the triage area.  The last thing I remember even
telling my partner, I was looking up at the towers and
the last thing I said was, you know, I don't think we
should be near these buildings and that was it.  That
was really it.
W. TRUOCOLLO
5
          I didn't treat any patients.  It was just
chaotic.  We were just running and screaming.  Nobody
wanted to be where we were at.  Everybody was trying to
get away from it.
          MR. DUN:  This concludes the interview.  It's
     705 hours.

FILE NO 9110457
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT JOSEPH CONZO
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 16 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

ASSIGNED
JOSEPH CONZO EMT SHIELD NUMBER 2577 TO BATTALION 26 IN THE SOUTH BRONX
CONZO
MR DUN TODAY JARIUTARY IC 2002 THE TIME IS 545 AM MY NAME IS RICHARD DUN OF THE
NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH
AT THIS TIME IN YOUR OWN WORDS COULD YOU DESCRIBE THE EVENTS LEADING ON SEPTEMBER 11 2001
ON SEPTEMBER 11 2001 WAS ASSIGNED TO 18 CHARLIE TOUR OUT OF BATTALION 26 WE RESPONDED TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER FROM THE BRONX IM NOT SURE OF THE APPROXIMATE TIME BUT IT WAS AFTER THE FIRST PLANE CRASH
EN ROUTE TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER THE SECOND PLANE HIT HALF WAY DOWN THERE GOING DOWN THE
WEST SIDE HIGHWAY WE RESPONDED DOWN THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY AND WE GOT DOWN THERE WAS FORTUNATE ENOUGH
TO PARK MY VEHICLE 301 BY 125 BARCLAY STREET ABOUT OR BLOCKS FROM THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
FROM THERE THERE WAS MULTIPLE VOLUNTEER UNITS MULTIPLE FIRE APPARATUSES PD SO ON AND SO ON
WHEN YOU GOT TO THE SCENE WAS IT CHAOTIC
LOT OF PEOPLE
IT WAS PRETTY MUCH CHAOTIC JUST MULTIPLE

CONZO
L1RIIT JU COMING IN ARID TUTFF LIKE THAT WE WERE TOLD
TO RESPOND TO STAGING AREA WHICH WAS DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET FROM THINK THE MARRIOTT DIRECTLY ACROSS
THE STREET THATS WHERE EVERYBODY WAS STAGING UP WITH THEIR EQUIPMENT AND THE FIRST CHIEF ENCOUNTERED WAS CHIEF CHARLIE WELLS ALONG WITH CAPTAIN KAREN DESHORE
WERE THERE LOT OF PATIENTS WALKING WOUNDED
AROUND
AT THAT TIME NO IT WAS JUST MULTIPLE FIRE SUPPRESSIONS AND PD AND EMS UNITS WE WERE ALL TOLD TO STAGE ACROSS THE STREET WITH OUR EQUIPMENT WE WERE TOLD TO PUT ON OUR HELMETS OUR TURNOUT COATS AND STUFF LIKE THAT AT THAT TIME THERE WAS JUST MULTIPLE FIRE PERSONNEL FIRE SUPPRESSIONS RUNNING IN AND OUT OF THE BUILDINGS STUFF LIKE THAT BOTH TOWERS WERE BURNING
AT THE TIME THERE REALLY WASNT ANY DEBRIS COMING DOWN FROM OUR SIDE AND THATS IT
AS WE STAGED ACROSS THE STREET CHIEF CHARLIE
WELLS GRABBED MY PARTNER AND AND SAID WE ARE GOING INTO THE BUILDING FROM THIS MAP HERE WE ENTERED THE
MARRIOTT HOTEL ON LIBERTY ON WEST SIDE AND LIBERTY AND AS SOON AS WE WERE ENTERING IN THERE WITH OUR
EQUIPMENT WE HEARD WHAT SEEMED TO BE THIRD PLANE HITTING BUT FOUND OUT LATER IT WAS THE COLLAPSE OF

CONZO
THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
AS THAT WAS HAPPENING CHIEF WELLS INSTRUCTED
US TO RUN RAN INTO THE BUILDING AND CHIEF WELLS AND MY PARTNER RAN BACK TOWARDS THE STAGING WAS
FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO SEEK COVER UNDER TABLE THERE
WHILE THE BUILDING COLLAPSED AND SUBSEQUENTLY ESCAPED UNHARMED
WERE YOU TRAPPED
YES WAS TRAPPED FOR ABOUT DONT KNOW
GOOD 15 20 MINUTES IT WAS JUST TOTAL CHAOS IT
WAS MYSELF AND THREE OTHER FIREMEN THE ENTRANCE WE HAD CAME IN WAS TOTALLY SEALED OFF ANOTHER ENTRANCE WAS TOTALLY SEALED OFF IT WAS TOTALLY PITCH BLACK DUST DEBRIS JUST COMPLETE SERENE ATMOSPHERE THE ONLY NOISE THAT WAS GOING ON AFTER THE RUMBLING WAS THE FIREMENS PASSIVE ALARMS GOING OFF
FORTUNATE ENOUGH FOR US WALL HAD COLLAPSED DOWN INTO THE STREET WE WERE ABLE TO CLIMB OUT
DIDNT EVEN KNOW WAS OUT IN THE STREET UNTIL WALKED INTO LIGHT POLE THATS HOW BLACK AND DARK IT WAS
AFTER GETTING OUT AND SEARCHING FOR MY PARTNER AND CHIEF WELLS COULDNT FIND THEM PROCEEDED ACROSS THE STREET INTO STORE THERE WHERE CLEARED MY FACE AND JUST STARTED SEARCHING FOR

CONZO
L1RVIVQR FORTUIIATELY FOUIID MY PARTNER ABOUT 10 MINUTES AFTER GETTING OUT OF THE BUILDING HE WAS
BURIED UNDER DEBRIS AND STUFF LIKE THAT FOUND HIM AND FIREMAN
GRABBED HIM WE PROCEEDED TO WALK TOWARDS
COMPLETELY
THE WATER AND LINKED AND
EVACUATE SOME INJURED
BOATS THAT WERE COMING OVER FROM JERSEY DONT KNOW
ABOUT 15 MINUTES AFTER THAT THE BUILDING THAT WE WERE IN COLLAPSED THE SECOND COLLAPSE HAPPENED
BOAT
CENTER
FROM THEN ON MY PARTNER WAS ALREADY ON THE
THE SECOND BUILDING WAS THAT WORLD TRADE
YES YES
SO THATS THE THIRD BUILDING
UP WITH CAPTAIN DESHORE FEW OTHER EMTS WE HELPED
FIREMEN AND CIVILIANS ON TO THESE
OKAY YES THIRD BUILDING MY PARTNER WAS ALREADY ON THE BOAT TO JERSEY BECAUSE HE WAS INJURED KAREN DESHORE FEW OTHER EMTS AND FIREMEN WERE ON THE BOAT AND STOOD THERE AND WAS FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO COMMANDEER GOLF CART GATOR WHICH WAS THE ONLY THING THAT COULD POSSIBLY MANEUVER SO STARTED EVACUATING PATIENTS TO THE FERRIES AND STUFF LIKE

CONZO
THAT
LATER ON AFTER EVACUATING LOT OF PEOPLE FROM THE WATERWAY THERE RAN INTO CHIEF MCCRACKEN
AND BECAME HIS PERSONAL DRIVER AND GATORED HIM FOR THE REST OF THE DAY THEN STOOD THE REST OF THE DAY DOWN AT SOUTH FERRY
SO AROUND WHAT TIME DID YOU END YOUR DAY ENDED THE DAY ABOUT OCLOCK THAT MORNING IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD NO THATS BASICALLY IT WE DID THE BEST WE
COULD NOT NOR ANYBODY ELSE THAT SPOKE TO WHO WAS
DOWN THERE EVEN IMAGINED THESE BUILDINGS COLLAPSING WE STAGED WHERE WE WERE TOLD TO STAGE AND WE JUST
FOLLOWED ORDERS WE DID THE BEST WE COULD
MR DUN THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW WITH
JOSEPH CONZO THE TIME NOW IS 550 HOURS
File No. 9110458
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER TIMOTHY BROWN
   Interview Date:  January 15, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
T. BROWN
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Today's date is
     January 15th, 2002.  The time is
     approximately 9:20.  My name is Battalion
     Chief Art Lakiotes, safety command, New York
     City Fire Department, conducting an
     interview with --
          MR. BROWN:  Tim Brown, OEM, detailed
     out of Rescue 3.
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  Pertaining to the
     events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Tim, if you would, just take me to when
you first heard about it and then how did the
day's events unfold for you.
     A.   OEM's offices are in Seven World Trade
Center, so we were there when the first plane
hit.  I was on the third floor.  I was eating
breakfast.  The electricity went out in the
building for about three to four seconds, and
then it rerouted and came back on.  I knew
something major had happened, although I did not
feel any vibration or hear any crash from where I
was sitting.
          The folks that were in the cafeteria
where I was that had a window seat all got up
T. BROWN 3
pretty much at once and started running.  I asked
them what happened.  They said a plane just
crashed into the tower, which was the north
tower.
          So I ran down the escalator to the
lobby level, where I saw my direct boss, Calvin
Dreydon, who is the deputy director for
operations for OEM, going down to the street
level.  He told me to go up to our office on 23
and make sure that we were getting our EOC up and
running and that our communications was being
properly supervised.  We call it our watch
command.
          So I went up in the elevator to 23.
First I went to my desk, got my portable radio.
It's a police radio, fire radio and OEM radio.  I
went into our watch command.  The supervisor,
Mike Lee, was there running operations, so we
were fine there.  I went into the EOC.  We had
the supervisor, Mike Berkowitz, there running
that, so I was comfortable that we were doing our
job properly.
          I went down to the street level.  There
was a lot of debris falling in the street, which
T. BROWN 4
is Vesey Street.  My car was parked on Vesey
between the federal office building, the post
office, and Five World Trade.  I went to my car
to take off my tie and my shoes, put on boots,
helmet, and a Mayor's office jacket.
          I went back to the corner of West and
Vesey, where the police department was calling
mobilization.  Our car two, John Odermatt was
there.  I told him that I was going to go through
Six World Trade into One World Tower to the fire
command post.
          I walked in the walkway between five
and six to get a three-sided look at One World
Trade Center to see what it looked like.  The
whole plaza area was burning debris, plane parts
and bodies; a lot of fire in the plaza area.
          I communicated with a Port Authority
cop who yelled at me and told me to get out of
there, it was too dangerous.  Of course he was
standing there.  I don't know who that guy was.
          I went into the lobby of One World
Trade Center.  A lot of people were
self-evacuating very orderly, quickly.  People
were helping each other, and they were streaming
T. BROWN 5
out as quickly as they could.
          The one thing that was limiting their
escape the most was probably the size of the
escalators.  They were bottling up at the top of
the escalators, trying to get on the escalators,
trying to get down.  But it was orderly.
          I believe you have to go down a level
to get to the fire command post.  So I went down
that level.  I went past the core of the building
where the stairwells were.  There were a lot of
firemen there.  By "a lot," I would probably say
30 or so firemen there.
          The people I remember seeing were Terry
Hatton and Chris Blackwell.  Terry Hatton from
Rescue 1 and Chris Blackwell from Rescue 3.  I
gave them both hugs.  Terry said to me, "I love
you, brother.  It might be the last time I see
you."  Then he went in the stairwell.  Then Chris
Blackwell looked at me and said, "This isn't
good, Tim."  That was the last I saw him also.
Those are the two guys that I remember seeing,
although there were a lot more people there.
          From there I went to the fire command
station where my boss was, Calvin.  I believe at
T. BROWN 6
this point Rich Schirer was there.  I think I saw
the Commissioner there.  I think we had a tape,
kind of, of the people that were there.
     Q.   Yes, I think so.
     A.   Yeah, I think the tape came in after I
left.
     Q.   Yeah, it could be.
     A.   I was probably there for three minutes
at most.  We did right away -- one of the
thoughts that crossed my mind almost immediately
was to get air cover from the military.  We
weren't sure this was a terrorist attack, but we
knew there was a good possibility that it was.
          So we had sent that message pretty
quickly back to our communications folks to try
and get in touch with the White House and with
FAA and try and get some help.
          There were a lot of people streaming in
and out, a lot of firemen coming in.
          The second plane hit.  Again I did not
feel that.  We did not know that happened until a
fireman came into the lobby and told us that
another plane had hit number two, the south
tower.  Calvin directed me to go to the command
T. BROWN 7
post in the south tower to help the Fire
Department with their operation there and to let
him know everything that was going on.
          I'm not exactly sure how I got there.
I remember going out through a broken window and
running I believe south along the West Street
side of the complex as fast as I could so I
wouldn't get hit by anything.
          I remember running across a parking
lot.  It was across from the hotel, which would
have been the southeast corner of Liberty an
West.  There's a parking lot there.  It was near
the pedestrian walkway and all that.
     Q.   There's a large parking lot.
     A.   Right.
     Q.   The building that was up there, would
it be a Church?
     A.   It was gone from there.
     Q.   Yes, obliterated.
     A.   Okay, okay.
     Q.   It was just a very huge parking lot,
black top.
     A.   Right, okay.  I was over there.
     Q.   I was a lieutenant in 10 and 10.
T. BROWN 8
That's why I remember a lot.
     A.   Okay.  So this is your neighborhood,
then.
     Q.   Yeah.
     A.   Okay.
          So I remember running across a lot of
debris.  I didn't have on fire gear, so I
remember trying to avoid the fire as much as I
could.  I ran into the doors of the Two World
Trade on the Liberty Street side.
          I saw Chief Burns inside there.  He was
the first fire personnel that I saw in the lobby.
I asked him if there was anything I could do to
help.  He was like, well, it's just like -- there
was nothing anybody could do except try and get
people out.
          So we tried to encourage -- I remember
seeing a six-person team from ESU in that lobby.
I directed them to wait.  I directed them to wait
and not to go upstairs until they reported in to
Chief Burns so we had some accountability of who
they were and where they were going to go.  They
finally did communicate with Chief Burns, and
then they went upstairs.
T. BROWN 9
          Again, an orderly evacuation of two.  A
lot of people were leaving.
          We finally set up -- prior to this I
believe it was the west side of the core of the
building there were elevators.  Someone had come
to me and said that there were people trapped in
one of those elevators.
          So I ran around the corner, and the
hoist way doors were open, but the elevator car
was only showing about two feet at the top of the
door.  You could see all the legs of the people
that were in the elevator.  I would guess there
were about eight people in the elevator.
          The elevator pit was on fire with the
jet fuel.  People were screaming in the elevator.
They were getting smoked and cooked.  There
weren't a lot of firemen there at the time.  I
grabbed some of the Port Authority employees and
asked them where the fire extinguishers were and
told them to get as many fire extinguishers as
they could so we could try and fight this fire.
As they were doing that, firemen started showing
up, and I started asking them to get big cans,
let's try to put this fire out.
T. BROWN 10
          I turned around, and I came
face-to-face with Mike Lynch from Ladder 4, who I
knew.  I worked for Ladder 4 for a year.  He was
one of the young guys there then.  I knew Mike
was a very competent guy.  I said to Mike,
"You've got this?"  He said, "I'll take care of
it."  I left the elevator knowing that he would
take care of it.
          I went to the command board -- which
before this I went to the phones which were in
the southeast corner of Two World Trade in the
lobby area, trying to call the White House and
trying to call Albany and trying to make sure
that we had some kind of air cover and some kind
of help in the air.
          I could not get through to Washington
because of the things that were going on.  I did
get in touch with S.E.M.O. up in Albany, and they
said they were already ahead of us and they had
already spoken with people, trying to get us air
cover.
          So being comfortable with that, I went
to the command board which they were setting up
right next to the doors on the Liberty Street
T. BROWN 11
side, the south side of Two World Trade, inside
the lobby.  At that command board were Chief
Burns, Chief Jack Fanning, and I remember seeing
Carl Asaro also there.  So at this point I just
stayed in the background, because things were
crazy.
          Someone, a fireman, came in through the
lobby, through the doors on the Liberty Street
side, and told us that there was already a
fireman who was killed on the Liberty Street side
by a jumper, a guy from 216.  Although we knew it
was serious, we knew that disaster was beginning
to happen.
          Now the people coming down the
stairwells were not so healthy anymore.  A lot of
people coming down were burned very badly.  A lot
of people were broken and bloody.  There were
people helping people, like carrying people.
          We had been directing people to go to
Seven World Trade where we had set up a triage
area, and I was directing them to go underground
as much as they could to get to seven.  But a lot
of these people that were coming down now were
not ambulatory and overwhelmed.  So the lobby
T. BROWN 12
started filling up with badly injured people,
people that were dying.
          So watching all the confusion, I always
try to think of what I can do to help.  I said,
well, we have no EMS in the lobby, and we're
going to have to move these people or everybody
is going to be stuck in the tower and we're not
going to be able to evacuate.
          I told Chief Burns that I was going to
go find EMS and bring them back into the lobby,
which is something that saved my life.  I went
out to the Liberty Street side.  I saw Mike Lynch
again at Ladder 4's rig, which was pulled right
up next to the building, taking the Hearst tool
off the rig.
          He yelled to me to help him get it off
the rig and carry it in, so I started running
toward him.  Before I could get to him, another
fireman had come up and started helping him.  So
I said, "Are you all set?"  He said, "I got it."
          I ran to continue my mission to find
EMS.  I found EMS staging underneath the
pedestrian bridge at West and Liberty.  I saw my
friend Charlie Wells.  I got under the pedestrian
T. BROWN 13
bridge where they were standing so we were
protected, and I said to Charlie, "We need you
guys in the lobby of number two."  He looked at
me like I was crazy.  He said, "All right.  Just
give me a minute to get helmets on people, and
we're going to go in with you."
          So I waited I'm thinking around two
minutes there.  He got two paramedics, himself
and me.  I said, "Okay.  Follow me."  We ran to
the south side of the hotel to stay close to the
building, trying not to get hit.  We ran along
the edge of the hotel.
          When we ran by the southwest corner of
the hotel, I noticed that the doors to the Tall
Ships restaurant were wide open and there were
people inside there.
          As we ran towards the rear, which is
the three side of the hotel, and rounded the
corner to go into Two World Trade Center, in the
doors, we heard the roar above us.  I know I
never looked up.  I don't think anybody ever
looked up.  But there was no question what it
was.  It was a very tremendous sound, which I
think we hear on the tapes.
T. BROWN 14
          So we just turned and ran for our
lives.  Now it was the flight/fright thing,
because everybody knew we were all going to die.
We ran back along -- I knew right from the start
that I was going to go into the lobby of the
hotel to try and get protected.
          As I ran by the medics, I yelled at
them to follow me.  Charlie and one of the
medics, who I don't know their names, followed me
into the lobby of the hotel.  The other guy ran
back toward the pedestrian bridge.  Charlie tells
me everybody lived of that group.
          We ran into the lobby.  No sooner did
we get into the lobby of the hotel, which was
crystal-clear when we went in, then it went
completely black in an instant with the dust.
          The roar was just getting louder.  The
dust started blowing in our faces.  I'm guessing
around 30, 35 miles an hour the wind was.
Everything started blowing toward us that wasn't
nailed down.  You could not any longer run into
the wind because you were getting pummeled by
stuff.  You couldn't see anybody to communicate.
You couldn't hear anything.  It was becoming our
grave.
T. BROWN 15
          So I turned around and started running
back toward the door where I came in.
Intellectually I knew we couldn't go outside,
because we would get killed by the steel.  So now
I knew we were trapped.  I wound up crawling on
the floor as the wind got stronger and the roar
got louder.
          I found what I'm guessing was a 12 by
12 boxed out steel column, which I tried to
become one with.  I got as close as I could to
it.  I hugged it, hoping that anything would tent
over me.  I just held onto it.
          I had a helmet on.  The helmet got
blown off by the wind.  I'm no meteorologist, but
I'm guessing that the wind at its height was
around 70, 75 miles an hour.  I had to hold onto
that steel column with all my might so I wouldn't
get blown out into the street,  not realizing it
was probably all over, thinking about my brother
and things like that.
          I thought it lasted four minutes.
Somebody told me it lasted a much shorter time
than that.  But it stopped.  You could hear an
T. BROWN 16
eerie silence at first, and then you could start
to hear people starting to move around a little
bit, people that were still alive.  I was amazed
that I was alive.
          You still couldn't see anything.  I
went back toward what I thought was the door
where we had come in from Liberty Street.  As I
got over there, I ran into a truck with its
lights on.  By the front of the truck, I thought
it was a box truck.  I did not recognize it as a
fire truck, although it could have been.  I
thought it was a bomb.  The headlights were still
on, very eerie.
          I turned around and ran the other way,
thinking that it was a bomb, telling everybody to
run the other way.  We ran into a steel rolldown
gate that was down.  Someone had said we can get
out this way, so now there were more people
around.
          So all the men -- I couldn't tell you
if they were civilians or firemen.  It seemed to
me there were a lot of civilians here.  Our
fingers were going underneath the door.  We tried
to lift it up.  After we got it up two inches,
T. BROWN 17
you could see all the fingers coming the other
way, because there were people trapped on the
other side of it.
          We got that door up about two feet, and
there was a girl behind us that said we found a
way out.  So everybody formed a chain.  There was
a fireman that knew he was already outside in the
rubble, but he was okay.  He was screaming at us
to come toward him, "Come this way.  Come this
way."
          So we went that way, which was the West
Street side of what was left of the building.  We
went across.  Then I just wanted to get away from
the building, so I ran across all the rubble over
to the American Express building, where I went in
the lobby there.  I just wanted to get to the
river and to be able to get a view of what was
going on.
          I went into that lobby, and all the
doors were locked.  I couldn't get through those
doors.  I tried to break the glass doors, and I
couldn't break them.
          I had the police and fire radios in my
back pocket, so I did not hear what was going on,
T. BROWN 18
really, on them.  I had the OEM radio in my hand,
and my boss was calling for help.  He was
trapped.  That's what brought me back to reality.
          I went back out to West Street, ran
north on the West Street side over the rubble,
trying to find him, thinking that he was dying,
trapped in the rubble.  I went by Chief Feehan,
who I know for a long time, shook his hand.  He
said "Be careful, be careful," to me.  I kept
running.  I remember him being on West, north of
the American Express building.  He was alone at
the time.
          I went up to Vesey Street and made a
left going west on Vesey Street toward the river.
I found Calvin at four World Financial Center.  A
fireman had already rescued him and pulled him
out.  He was with EMS.
          Then my other boss, car 2, John
Odermatt, grabbed me and said, "Timmy, we have to
go and try to reestablish city government.
You've got to come with me.  Calvin is okay."  So
we left Calvin in the hands of EMS and went back
north on West Street.
          At some point -- I'm not sure where --
T. BROWN 19
I either went in Barclay Street or Murray Street
over to West Broadway and trying to find our
command bus, which was a little bit further north
on West Broadway.  I started walking north on
West Broadway when number One World Trade Center
started to collapse.
          I looked back over my shoulder.
Everybody started running.  That collapsed.  I
knew that my friends were in there.  I just ran
north on West Broadway.  I used a telephone, a
land line, because I couldn't use the cell phone
to call my brother to tell him I was still alive.
That phone call was made an hour and 42 minutes
after the first plane hit.  So I know that's the
time line.
          Then we wound up just up at 24 and 5
with the Mayor and other folks up there.  I saw
Terry's wife up there.  I had an unhappy
encounter with her.
          Basically that's it.  We just tried to
regroup after that.  That's everything I
remember.
     Q.   A lot of guys that were in the --
     A.   Lobby.
T. BROWN 20
     Q.   -- restaurant, 131?
     A.   131 Truck?
     Q.   Yeah.  I was wondering if you ran into
them.
     A.   They were in the lobby and they were --
     Q.   I guess the gate was between the
restaurant and the hotel lobby.  When they closed
the restaurant, they use the gate to segregate
the restaurant from the rest of the building.
A. Oh, okay.
     Q.   They said that they got that up.  They
went out to Liberty Street on the corner.
     A.   Oh, okay.  So they were coming toward
me as I was coming toward them.
Q. Right.
     A.   You couldn't tell who was who or
anything like that.
          Did any of those guys die?  Mostly
everybody that was in that lobby area --
     Q.   In that general area of the lobby, the
guys got out.
     A.   Further north than the lobby.
     Q.   North and south.  It seemed like you
were in the middle.
T. BROWN 21
     A.   I think I was in the south end of the
lobby.  That's that part that's still standing.
     Q.   I'm saying, if you were on the south
side or the north side, it looks like you --
     A.   Lived.
     Q.   -- survived.
     A.   In the middle where two came down, it
sliced it in the middle.  You have guys that were
in the north part that lived also?
     Q.   Yeah, Tommy Gallagher was in the north
part, and Brian, when the first collapsed.
     A.   Right.  Then the second one.  I heard
there's videotape, actually, of number two -- of
the hotel in between the collapses.  So you have
two parts of the hotel standing, and the middle
is gone.
     Q.   Yeah.
     A.   You can see it?
     Q.   Photos, not video.
     A.   Okay.  Photos.
          CHIEF LAKIOTES:  That concludes the
     interview.  It is approximately 9:45.

FILE NO 9110459
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW LIEUTENANT JAMES WALSH
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 16 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY NANCY FRANCIS

WALSH
BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA TODAY IS JANUARY 16 2002 THE TIME IS 1215 HOURS THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF FRANK CONGIUSTA OF THE SAFETY BATTALION OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME
LIEUTENANT WALSH LIEUTENANT JA1AES WALSH BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA HE IS ASSIGNED TO
THE ENGINE OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT WERE AT THE QUARTERS OF ENGINE AND THIS INTERVIEW IS
REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001
JIM IF YOUD JUST TELL US IN YOUR OWN WORDS
WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAY
STARTING FROM THE BEGINNING AT THE TIME OF
THE FIRST PLANE HITTING THE NORTH TOWER BUNCH OF GUYS IN THE FIREHOUSE HAD YELLED SOMETHING ABOUT
PLANE HITTING THE NORTH TOWER AND THEN AT THAT POINT THE BOXES STARTED COMING IN AND AT 848 THE BATTALION GETS RUN TO GO FOR THE 1076 ENGINE WASNT ACTUALLY ON THE 1076 AT THAT MOMENT BUT ALL THE MEMBERS OF ENGINE INCLUDING MYSELF ALL ASSUMED WE WERE
MY ENAINE CHAUFFEUR HAD RUSHED UP TO THE HOUSE WATCH AREA BECAUSE SOMEBODY HEARD 1076 AND ENGINE

WALSH
GOES YELLED DO THEY WANT US TO TAKE THE HIGH RISE RIG MY ENGINE CHAUFFEUR ALREADY WAS ON THE VOICE
ALARM CONTACTING THE DISPATCHER AND SAYING DO YOU WANT US TO BRING HIGH RISE THE ANSWER COMING BACK ON THE VOICE ALARM WAS TAKE EVERYTHING YOUVE GOT
WE LATER FOUND OUT FROM PEOPLE THAT
DISPATCHER KNOW HAD TOLD ME THAT YOU ACTUALLY WERENT
ASSIGNED AT THAT MOMENT YOU WERE ASSIGNED TWO MINUTES LATER AND WITHOUT THE HIGH RISE RIG
SO THEN AT THAT POINT ENGINE WAS FOLLOWING BATTALION OUT ON THE RESPONSE WITH HIGH RISE GOING
SOUTHBOUND ON SEVENTH AVENUE AFTER YOU CLEARED AROUND 13TH STREET AND ST VINNYS HOSPITAL THE WORLD TRADE CENTER COMES INTO VIEW AND AS WE WERE LOOKING AT IT YOU KNOW YOURE GETTING PRETTY GOOD LOOK AT IT FROM HERE ONE OF THE THINGS MY CHAUFFEUR SAID TO ME EVENTUALLY AS WE WERE GOING DOWN SEVENTH AVENUE WAS DO YOU THINK THIS IS AN ACCIDENT IM LOOKING AT IT AND SAID DONT KNOW BUT KNOW FOR FACT THATS NOT SMALL PLANE THAT CAUSED THAT HOLE IN THE BUILDING
THERE
GOING DOWN SEVENTH AVENUE WE APPROACHED CANAL STREET AND BATTALION MADE LEFT HAND TURN IM NOT SURE IF THEY WERE GOING TO TAKE WEST BROADWAY

PARALLEL
TO THE SOUTH TOWER
WE GOT OUT OF THE RIG TO TURN MY CHAUFFEUR
AGAIN
THE TRAFFIC CONDITION ON WEST STREET
WALSH
OR WHAT STREET THEY WERE GOING TO TAKE DOWN BUT AS WE APPROACHED LOOKED UP AT THE SITUATION AND SAID TO MY CHAUFFEUR SAID THAT LOOKS LIKE ITS GOING TO BE TRAFFIC LETS TAKE THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY RIGHT THERE OR WEST STREET WE MADE THE RIGHT HIGH RISE
FOLLOWED US AND WE STARTED GOING DOWN WEST STREET
AGAIN WE STILL HAD VERY FROM WHERE WE WERE AND AT
TOWER ACTUALLY JUMPERS HAD OF THE BUILDING
GOOD LOOK AT THE BUILDING THAT POINT WE SAW UP THE ALREADY STARTED COMING OUT
WAS FOR FIVE TO 900 IN THE MORNING ON BUSINESS
DAY IT WAS LIKE SOMETHING HAD ALREADY HAPPENED AND
THERE WAS ALMOST NO TRAFFIC SO WE WERE NOT HINDERED AT ALL BY GOING DOWN WEST STREET WE WENT DOWN UNTIL WE
HIT VESEY STREET AND MY CHAUFFEUR LITERALLY OVERSHOT HE WAS FLYING DOWN THE BLOCK FLYING DOWN WEST STREET
AND PAST THE NORTH TOWER AND SAID TO HIM BOBBY JUST PASSED THE FIRE BUILDING AND WE ENDED UP ALMOST
AROUND AND WE WERE GOING TO BRING HIM BACK UP WEST STREET TOWARDS THE NORTH TOWER AND MY CHAUFFEUR SCOTT
HOLOWACH FOR HIGH RISE HE GOT OUT OF THE RIG AND
YOU

WALSH
YELLED TO ME IM GOING TO PARK THE HIGH RISE RIG UNDERNEATH THE NORTH PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY GOING FROM THE
FINANCIAL CENTER OR AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING INTO THE
NORTH TOWER HE WAS REFERRING TO PROTECTING THE RIG FROM ALL THE CRAP COMING DOWN IS THE WAY HE STATED IT
THEY TURNED THE RIGS AROUND WE GOT THEM
TURNED AROUND
ENGINE CHAUFFEUR
THE INAUDIBLE
WAS WALKING BACK UP WEST STREET MY
FOUND HYDRANT SOMEPLACE UP THERE IN MY HIGH RISE CHAUFFEUR HE GOT OUT OF
THE RIG HE STARTED COMING BACK TOWARDS THE RIG STOOD
THERE AND HE WAS ABOUT TO PULL HIS INAUDIBLE AND HE
JUST ENDED UP STANDING THERE AND LOOKING OUT TOWARDS
ME AS WAS COMING UP WEST STREET STARTED HEARING
SOUNDS GETTING VERY LOUD AND NEVER BOTHERED TO LOOK BACK BECAUSE THE SOUND GOT EXTREMELY LOUD IT WAS THE ROAR OF THE JET PLANE WHICH DIDNT REALLY KNOW IT
WAS THE AIRLINER COMING IN REMEMBER RUNNING BACK UP WEST STREET TOWARDS WHERE MY CHAUFFEUR WAS FROM THE
HIGH RISE RIG AND RUNNING AT THE SAME TIME WAS
TRYING TO GET DOWN AT THE SAME TIME IT SEEMED LIKE
THEN HEARD THE EXPLOSION UP TO SCOTT AND SAID WHAT WAS THAT
PLANE BECAUSE IT GOT SO LOUD HE SAID NO ANOTHER AIRLINER JUST HIT
IMPRESSION THAT MAYBE IT WAS FIAHTER
CONTINUED RUNNING WAS UNDER THE

WALSH
THE SOUTH TOWER TURNED AND LOOKED AND COULD SEE
ALL THE DAMAGE ALREADY AT THAT POINT GUESS THE ONE THING COULD SAY IS AS HAD SAID TO MY CHAUFFEUR DONT KNOW IF IT WAS AN ACCIDENT NOW KNEW THIS WAS NO ACCIDENT THAT SOMETHING WAS GOING ON
MY CHAUTTEUR GRABBED HYDRANT IN THE MEDIAN OF WEST STREET THERE HE WAS GOING TO HOOK UP TO IT
IN THE MEANTIME KNOW THAT MY HIGH RISE RIG CHAUFFEUR TALKED TO CHIEF GANCI AND TOLD HIM THAT ANOTHER PLANE JUST HIT THE SOUTH TOWER AND GANCI ALMOST PROBABLY COULDNT BELIEVE IT HIMSELF UNTIL MY CHAUFFEUR SCOTT HOLOWACH POINTED AT THE BUILDING TO HIM AT THAT
POINT GANCI CAME AROUND AND TOLD ME LIEU GET ENGINE OUT OF THERE WERE GOING TO SET UP CONGA LINE OF AMBULANCES ON WEST STREET FOR THE CASUALTIES THAT WERE GOING TO HAVE FOR THIS THING
KNOW MY CHAUFFEUR WAS PROBABLY LOOKING AROUND WHEN TOLD HIM HE HAD TO MOVE THE RIG THAT HE
WAS PROBABLY LOOKING FOR ANOTHER HYDRANT AT THAT POINT SAID BOBBY DONT WORRY ABOUT GETTING
HYDRANT JUST GET THE RIG OVER THERE HE ENDED UP PARKINA IT ON THE ARASS OVER BY THE FINANCIAL BUILDINA
BELIEVE NORTH OF THE PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY AND ALMOST

WALSH
AT THE CORNER OF THE BUILDING THERE AT VESEY AND WEST WHERE THAT BUILDING MEETS
HE CAME BACK HE WAS GETTING THE HIGH RISE RIG ALL SET UP HE WAS GOING TO START GETTING THE TOOLS THAT WE WERE POSSIBLY GOING TO USE AT THIS POINT GANCI HAD ALREADY GIVEN ME ONE ORDER CHIEF DOWNEY SHOWED UP AND WERE TELLING HIM WEVE GOT THE HIGH RISE RIG AND HE BASICALLY ORDERED US TO STAND FAST HE DIDNT KNOW HOW HE WAS GOING TO USE US YET
THEY WERE STARTING TO SET UP THE COMMAND POST
IN THE DRIVEWAY OF THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING THEN EVENTUALLY THEY MADE THE ORDER FOR HAVING THE STAGING AREA IN THE DRIVEWAY WE HAD MY FOUR GUYS THERE AND THE ONE OR TWO DECISIONS THAT MADE THAT DAY THAT AFFECTED INAUDIBLE THE ONE THING WAS GOING TO SAY IS THAT THE CHIEFS STARTED STAGING WITH DOWNEY AND THEY HAD THE COMMAND POST TABLE OUT WITH ALL THE COMMAND UNITS CHECKERS ON IT INAUDIBLE UP FROM THE
DRIVEWAY AND MY GUYS STARTED WALKING IN THAT DIRECTION AND BASICALLY STOPPED THE FOUR OF THEM THERE WERE FOUR FIREMEN AND WANT YOU TO GO 100 FEET NORTH BY THAT DOORWAY OVER THERE

WALSH
THEY WERE GETTING ABOUT 50 GUYS THERE SEPARATING ENGINES AND TRUCKS ON ONE SIDE
WASNT REALLY THINKING OF COLLAPSE
YOU WERE THINKING MORE OF AN ATTACK
MY BIGGEST CONCERN WAS FELT LIKE SAID WE KNEW THIS WAS NO ACCIDENT NOW AND IM THINKING THAT
IF VAN OR SOMETHING COMES AROUND THE CORNER PARKED WITH EXPLOSIVES SAID IF THEY SAW BUNCH OF FIREMEN
STANDING SOMEPLACE THAT MIGHT BECOME THEIR TARGET IF THEY CAME AROUND THE CORNER MEAN REMEMBER
TELLING POLICE OFFICER AT THE SCENE DONT LET THE
CIVILIANS THAT WE GET OUT OF THESE BUILDINGS LINGER
AROUND MAKE SURE THEY KEEP MOVING AWAY BECAUSE AGAIN BELIEVED WE WERE SERIOUSLY UNDER ATTACK AT THIS POINT
AND YOU DIDNT KNOW WHO WAS GOING TO TRY AND DO WHAT TO US MEAN IT COULD HAVE BEEN SOMEBODY THAT COULD HAVE ACTED LIKE THEY JUST CAME OUT OF THE BUILDING AND

WALSH
IM CONFUSED THATS HOW WAS THINKING THATS WHAT
WAS TELLING MY GUYS SAID IF SOMETHING ELSE HAPPENS HERES WHERE THINK YOU CAN GO TO GET AWAY
WENT OVER AND STOOD IN THE COMMAND POST AREA BASICALLY IN THE DRIVEWAY AND LEFT THEM THERE ABOUT HUNDRED FEET NORTH OF ME
WE WERE THERE TOR LONG TIME WOULD ALMOST SIT THERE AND TELL YOU THAT MY RECOLLECTION
PROBABLY ISNT EXACT BUT ALMOST THOUGHT RAY DOWNEY WAS THERE THE WHOLE TIME BUT HAVE BEEN TOLD SINCE
THAT HE SHOWED UP IN BUILDING ONE
YEAH HE WAS IN THE NORTH TOWER
SO DIDNT KNOW THAT BUT IT SEEMED LIKE HE WAS THERE THEY HAD THE STAGING POST THERE THERE WERE
LOT OF CHIEFS THERE RAY DOWNEY WAS BACK AT THE STAGING AREA IN THIS DRIVEWAY WHICH WAS EITHER IN FRONT OF THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING OR ONE OF THE
FINANCIAL CENTER BUILDINGS RAY DOWNEY TURNED AROUND LOOKED AT US AND SAID NEED THREE ENGINES THREE TRUCKS AND BATTALION CHIEF TO TAKE THE NORTH
PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY IN TOWARDS THE NORTH TOWER
LOT OF TIME HAS ELAPSED SINCE THE LAST STATEMENT MADE BEFORE HE PUT CAPTAINS YOU KNOW WE
WERE JUST STANDING THERE FOR LONG PERIOD OF TIME HE

WALSH
SAID THAT TO US HE SAID IT THREE TIMES AND IM
PRETTY SURE HE WAS EMPHASIZING USE THE PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY TO GET INTO THE BUILDING HES TRYING TO MAKE
SURE THAT WE DONT GET HIT WITH ANY MORE JUMPERS IM
SURE WE COULD USE THE PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY AS PROTECTION THINK THE MOMENT HE FINISHED SAYING IT
THE THIRD TIME HEARD THE SOUND AND WE LOOKED IT
SOUNDED LIKE GAS OR AN ENGINE OR SOMETHING AND IT WAS THE SOUTH TOWER STARTING TO COLLAPSE AND THINK IT
WAS THE SOUND HEARD WAS THE SOUND OF THE FIRE AND
GASSES BEING COMPRESSED BY THE TOP PART OF THE BUILDING ABOVE WHERE THE PLANE HIT COMING DOWN AND PUSHING THE
SMOKE AND GASSES OUT THINK THATS WHAT HEARD
THE LAST SOUND HEARD WAS PROBABLY ABOUT
FIVE FEET FROM CHIEF DOWNEY FEEL LIKE HAD AN INSTINCT IN ME THAT WANTED TO RUN PAST HIM AND UP THE
DRIVEWAY TO GET TO MY GUYS BUT SAW THE TOP OF THE
BUILDING MOVING UNDERNEATH INTO GOOD CHOICE AS
AND JUST TURNED AND STARTED RUNNING THE GARAGE DIDNT THINK IT WAS
WAS RUNNING THERE
THE BUILDING DIDNT FALL THE WAY YOU WOULD
THINK TALL BUILDINGS WOULD LIKE IT IMPLODED ON ITSELF ONCE AFTER WAS RUNNING
FALL PRETTY MUCH IT LOOKED LOOKED OVER MY SHOULDER
DIDNT HEAR IT COMING
10

WALSH
DOWN BELIEVE IT MUST HAVE BEEN BLOCKED OUT WHAT SAW WAS IT LOOKED LIKE THE GARAGE DOOR WAS GONE IT
WAS JUST ALL BLACK
AS KEPT RUNNING FELT THE AIR RUSHING AND
ACTUALLY FELT THE DUST ENVELOP ME KEPT RUNNING IN
THE
OR
AND
THING THAT HAPPENED TO ME WAS WHEN GOT AS WAS APPROACHING THE DOORWAY KNOW WAS IN MY MIND AND HEART SAYING PLEASE BE OPEN RAN TO IT AND JUST AS GOT TO IT THE DOOR SWUNG OPEN AND FIREMANS HEAD POPPED OUT JUMPED INTO THAT STAIRWAY AND LITERALLY THERE WERE LIKE 35 OR 40 GUYS IN THE STAIRWAY WHICH DONT REMEMBER SEEING THEM RUNNING OUT IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING
AT THAT POINT NOW IM MAKING MY WAY UP THE STAIRS IM GETTING PAST FEW FIREMEN AND THINGS LIKE
THAT TOOL
GET PAST THEM AND HEARD SOMEBODY SAY WE NEED
YELLED OUT NOT THAT ANYBODY HEARD ME THERE AN OFFICERS TOOL INAUDIBLE AND KEPT
OTHER DIRECTION THINKING THERE HAD TO BE DOORWAY STAIR SOMEPLACE ON THE OTHER SIDE OT THE BUILDING
IT WAS STAIRWAY UP THAT REMEMBER AND THE NEXT
SAID IS
MAKING MY WAY UP ALL OF SUDDEN THE DOOR WAS OPEN THE AUYS WERE MOVINA OUT OF THAT DOOR BUT WE WERE STILL INSIDE THE BUILDING WE MOVED TOWARDS THE NEXT
11

WALSH
DOOR WHICH WENT INTO AN AREA IN THE BACK OF THIS
BUILDING SOMEPLACE ALMOST OPPOSITE OF THE MARINA WHEN YOU LOOK OUT THERES LITTLE PARK LAND THERE
THE FIRST TWO GUYS HIT THE DOOR THEY OPENED THE DOOR THE FIRST TIME AND THEY PULLED IT SHUT RIGHT
IT WAS LIKE LOOKING AT NIGHTTIME IT WAS 1000 OCLOCK IN THE MORNING IT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS NIGHT
WHEN THEY OPENED THE DOOR REMEMBER SAYING PROBABLY NOT CONVINCINGLY WE HAVE TO GO OUT THERE GUYS AND IT WAS JUST MATTER AT THAT POINT NOW HAD LEFT MY FOUR GUYS SOMEPLACE ELSE OTHER THAN WHAT WAS TOLD TO DO AND THOUGHT MAYBE HAD CHEATED MYSELF AND WAS WORRIED FOR THEM FOR THEM SO THATS WHY HAD TO GET OUT
THE GUYS DID OPEN THE DOOR AGAIN AT THIS POINT KNOW WAS MAKING MY WAY TOWARDS THE DOOR AND
GOING OUT HEARD SOME PEOPLE SAY PUT YOUR MASK ON HEARD PEOPLE SAYING DIFFERENT THINGS THIS AND THAT
BUT AT THAT POINT ALL CARED ABOUT WAS GETTING AROUND THE COMPLEX OF THE FINANCIAL CENTER BUILDINGS WENT TO NORTH AVENUE THROUGH THAT PARK LAND CAME UP TO THE CORNER OF VESEY AND WHEN GOT TO THE CORNER OF VESEY COULD ACTUALLY SEE DAYLIAHT DOWN VESEY TOWARDS THE TRADE CENTER COMPLEX AGAIN
AWAY
12

WALSH
AS STARTED WALKING DOWN VESEY THERE WERE LOT OF PEOPLE MOVING AROUND MULLING AROUND AND IM LOOKING FOR MY
FIREMEN OR CIVILIANS
BOTH IM LOOKING FOR BOTH IM LOOKING FOR
MY GUYS NOW AND IM MAKING MY WAY EAST ON VESEY STREET TROM NORTH END AVENUE AND IM TOWARDS THE WEST SIDE
AGAIN SURPRISINGLY THE FOUR GUYS THAT HAD PUT BY THE DOORWAYS THATS THE SPOT WHERE THEY CAME OUT ON
VESEY STREET IT WAS THROUGH LOBBY AREA WHERE ALL FOUR OF THEM POPPED UP
DID YOU EVER TRY AND CALL THEM ON THE
HANDY TALKIE OR WAS THAT JUST IMPOSSIBLE
THERE WAS NO RADIO TRAFFIC ACTUALLY THAT
CAN TELL YOU REMEMBER HEARING IT WAS LIKE DIDNT CARE ABOUT ANYTHING HAD ON ME ANYMORE MY HELMET GONE DIDNT CARE WHAT HAD WAS JUST LOOKING
FOR THEM AS STARTED MAKING MY WAY UP VESEY STREET THEY CAME OUT OF THAT BUILDING ONTO VESEY FOUND ALL FOUR OF THEM
WHEW THATS SOMETHING
YEAH KNOW MY CHAUFFEUR HE WAS THE ONE AUY WHO DIDNT MOVE BECAUSE HE WAS PROBABLY TAKINA CARE OF THE HIGH RISE RIG BUT FOUND THE FOUR OF
13

WALSH
THEM AND THEN WE WENT AND LOOKED FOR BOBBY WE FOUND HIM SOMEPLACE CLOSER TO THE CORNER OF VESEY AND WEST
HE LITERALLY POPPED OUT OF HOLE AND WAS ALL COVERED
IN WHITE DUST AND EVERYTHING ELSE AND NOW HAD ALL MY FIVE GUYS BACK
REMEMBER LOOKING AROUND LITTLE BIT
SAW TIREMAN TROM 12 TRUCK TERRY FINNERAN HE WASNT
WORKING HE WAS ALREADY DOWN THERE GUESS ON HIS OWN IN HIS OWN GEAR AND SAW HIM AND SAW COUPLE
OF OTHER GUYS PEOPLE THAT DIDNT KNOW WHO THEY WERE AND JUST MADE THE STATEMENT GUYS WE YE GOT TO GET AWAY FROM THIS THING LETS START HEADING TOWARDS THE HUDSON RIVER
SO WE STARTED MOVING FROM VESEY AND WEST AND HEADED WEST ON VESEY BACK TOWARDS NORTH END AVENUE AND BEFORE WE GOT TO NORTH END AVENUE THE NORTH TOWER STARTED COMING DOWN SO ALMOST LIKE AT THAT POINT
WAS LOOKING FOR OTHER PEOPLE THAT WERE IN THE AREA BUT
WASNT GOING TO KEEP MY GUYS HERE THAT WAS
BASICALLY WHAT HAPPENED
DID IT TURN DARK NIGHT AGAIN
NO
OR WERE YOU FAR ENOUAH AWAY
THINK WE WERE FAR ENOUGH AWAY THAT IT
14

WALSH
WAS AMAZING THAT WOULD TELL YOU THAT THE SOUTH TOWER CAME DOWN AND EVERYTHING FROM IT WAS IN THE AREA LIKE OVER TOWARDS THE WEST SIDE WHEN THE SOUTH TOWER CAME DOWN AFTER RUNNING AND COMING OUT ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE FINANCIAL CENTER BUILDINGS IN THE PARK LAND AREA AND FACING THE MARINA YOU COULD BARELY SEE THE MARINA THROUGH THE DUST IT WAS LIKE NIGHTTIME ALL OT THAT DUST SEEMED TO COME WEST TOWARDS THE HUDSON
WHEN THE NORTH TOWER FELL DOWN WE WERE ON VESEY HEADING TOWARDS NORTH END AVENUE AND IT WAS
LIKE WHEN THAT BUILDING FELL WATCHING IT FALL FROM WHERE WE WERE IT LOOKED LIKE CANT TELL YOU HOW
THE SOUTH TOWER FELL ONLY FROM SEEING IT ON REPLAYS THAT ONE LOOKED LIKE IT REALLY CAME DOWN PRETTY
STRAIGHT LIKE IT REALLY IMPLODED ON ITSELF THE NORTH TOWER LOOKED LIKE WHEN IT STARTED TO FALL IT LOOKED
LIKE THE TOP FELL MORE TOWARDS THE NORTH AND DIDNT IMPLODE AS STRAIGHT DOWN AS THE SOUTH TOWER IS
BASICALLY ALL IM SAYING
THATS THE WAY IT LOOKED ON THE TAPE TOO
WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT AND WHEN WE LOOKED AT IT FROM VESEY STREET AND NORTH END AVENUE IT LOOKED LIKE IT FELL THAT WAY LITTLE BIT TOWARDS THE NORTH
AT THAT POINT THERE THE NEXT THING THAT
15

WALSH
HAPPENED WAS WE RAN ACROSS SOME FIREMEN COUPLE GUYS FROM 24 TRUCK WE CAME ACROSS ONE GUY WITH BROKEN
NOSE WHO WOULDNT EVEN LET US HELP HIM CLEAN IT THEY WERE HELPING ANOTHER FIREFIGHTER THINK HE WAS KIND
OF LIMPING HE ALSO ENDED UP SOMEBODY WAS TALKING ABOUT FIREFIGHTER THAT WAS HAVING CHEST PAINS NOW
WERE BASICALLY ON THE PROMENADE NEAR THE HUDSON RIVER
OKAY GO AHEAD
SO THEN WE WERE TRYING TO HELP HIM OUT WITH
WE HAD NO CFRD EQUIPMENT WITH US AT THIS TIME
SOMEBODY WAS TRYING TO GIVE HIM SOME WATER TRYING TO CALM HIM DOWN WE TOOK HIS GEAR OFF HIM REMEMBER AND THINK THAT WE SAW FEW OF THE GUYS WALKING AROUND JERSEY STATE TROOPER HAD SAID TO ME THAT THE FERRIES ARE HERE AND HE SAID GET ALL UNIFORMED HE SAID THEYRE FOR EVERYBODY BUT WHAT HE SAID IS IF YOU GET ANY UNIFORMED PERSONNEL THEYRE GOING FIRST
KNOW HE SAID THAT TO ME
AT THIS POINT LIKE SAID FOR LOT OF THE
TIME THERE WAS THAT EERIE SILENCE THE ONLY WAY
COULD DESCRIBE IT TO YOU WHERE IN THAT ONE POINT AFTER
THE COLLAPSES OR IN BETWEEN THE COLLAPSES IT WAS LIKE BEING OUT IN NIGHTTIME DURING WINTER SNOWSTORM WITH
16

WALSH
NOBODY AROUND YOU AGAIN WASNT HEARING RADIO TRAFFIC WHICH THERE WAS PLENTY WHEN DID START
HEARING IT AND LIKE PEOPLE WERE ASKING WHAT HAPPENED KNEW WHERE WAS COULDNT HELP THOSE PEOPLE WE
WERE TRYING TO HELP WHOEVER WE HAD
WE CAME ACROSS BATTALION CHIEF RAYNIS WHO
DIDNT EVEN KNOW WHERE HE WAS ASSIGNED TO AT THE TIME BUT HE HAD SAID TO ME AT THIS POINT THAT THEY WERE
AGAIN STAGING AT CHAMBERS AND WEST WHICH MEANT THAT THEY WERE GOING TO TAKE EVERYBODY THAT THEY COULD FIND AND BRING THEM UP TO CHAMBERS AND WEST AND RESTAGE ANYONE THEY FOUND THINK BASICALLY KNOW AS WE GOT UP THERE MY OWN FEELINGS WERE COULDNT BELIEVE WE WENT UP THERE TO GET ORDERED TO COME BACK DOWN TO START HELPING AGAIN BECAUSE ITS LIKE REALIZED WE PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE NEVER LEFT IN THE FIRST
PLACE THEN STARTED HEARING FEW RADIO
TRANSMISSIONS ABOUT INTERMITTENTLY HEARD SOMEBODY SITTING THERE AND SAYING WE NEED MORE WATER WE GOT LOTS OF CAR FIRES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT HAD NO
IDEA WHERE THEY WERE AT THIS POINT BUT THEY HAD LOTS
OF CAR FIRES
AFTER THAT WE WERE BACK DOWN THERE WE WERE
IN TRYING TO HELP AGAIN AROUND THE COLLAPSE AREAS
17

WALSH
REMEMBER WE WERE WALKING OVER WITH FIREFIGHTER DEREK WILSON CARRYING SOME KIND OF TOOL INTO THE AREA AGAIN
WE ACTUALLY WALKED UNDER THE PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY THAT WAS THE NORTH ONE IT WAS PARTIALLY STILL STANDING
ACTUALLY BEING HELD BY THE HIGH RISE RIG ON THE WEST END OF IT WHERE IT WAS PARKED UNDERNEATH IT AND AT
THIS POINT THERE WAS SOME STUTT GOING ON THERE
EVENTUALLY THEY HAD ORDERED EVERYBODY AWAY FROM THE AREA AGAIN BECAUSE OF BUILDING THEY WERE
DOING ALL KINDS OF ROLL CALLS AT VESEY STREET NOW AND THIS IS LATER ON IN THE AFTERNOON BASICALLY THATS ALL WE HAD TO DO MEAN THATS WHAT WE DID THAT DAY FROM THAT POINT ON AND THEN LATER ON GUESS WE WERE DOWN THERE UNTIL ABOUT 1000 OCLOCK THAT NIGHT WITH THE GUYS PUTTING WATER ON FIRES THAT WERE THERE AND EVEN TRYING TO GET SOURCES OF WATER SO ANYWAY
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO SAY DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE TO TELL YOU AT THIS
POINT ACTUALLY MEAN ITS LIKE THATS WHERE WE
WERE ITS LIKE SAID MEAN GOT VERY LUCKY TELLING MY GUYS TO STAY IN ONE SPOT MEAN IT WAS FOR DIFFERENT REASON THAN WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED THEN THE OTHER THINA WAS AUESS THE THINA IM CONFUSED ABOUT IS YOU HEAR SO MANY STORIES ABOUT THE
18

WALSH
NORTH TOWER PERSONNEL AND YOU HEAR GUYS THAT HAVE ACTUALLY TOLD YOU THEYRE NOT SURE IF THEY WERE TOLD TO EVACUATE AFTER THE SOUTH TOWER CAME DOWN BECAUSE MY FIRST INSTINCT AFTER FOUND EVERYBODY WAS NOW LETS
GET AWAY FROM THIS SCENE AGAIN BEFORE THIS ONE COMES DOWN NOT KNOWING THEY WERE COMING DOWN
WELL THEY DID LOT OT GUYS HEARD THE
ORDER TO GET OUT OF THE NORTH TOWER LOT OF GUYS GOT OUT OF THE NORTH TOWER
BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW THE TIME IS 1230 HOURS
19
File No. 9110460
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER KENNETH ESCOFFRY
   Interview Date:  January 16, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
K. ESCOFFRY 2
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today's date is
     January 16, 2002.  The time is 1320 hours.
     This is Battalion Chief Frank Congiusta of
     the Safety Battalion of the New York City
     Fire Department.  I'm conducting an
     interview with the following individual.
          Please state your name.
          FIREFIGHTER ESCOFFRY:  Firefighter
     first grade KENNETH ESCOFFRY.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Firefighter Escoffry
     is assigned to Ladder Company 20 of the New
     York City Fire Department.  We're at the
     quarters of Ladder 20.  This interview is
     regarding the events of September 11th,
     2001.
     Q.   Kenny, in your own words, if you will
just tell us what happened that day.
     A.   On the morning of September 11th about
8:45, I was relieved, and a few of us were
standing in front of quarters when we noticed a
plane came directly over the firehouse maybe
around 8:45, somewhere around that time.  One of
the guys mentioned that the plane looked like it
was really low.  Before we could really think of
K. ESCOFFRY 3
what he said, the next thing we heard an
explosion.  We saw the smoke.
          So the guys in the firehouse suited up
and jumped on the rig.  We didn't get a run on
the teleprinter yet, but they went towards the
direction.  I guess they got the run as they were
moving towards the direction.
          At first we thought it was just a plane
crash.  Four of us were left in the firehouse.
We turned on the TV, and we noticed that the
plane hit the World Trade.
          (Interruption.)
     Q.   Okay.  Go ahead.
     A.   I was saying that the plane had crashed
into the World Trade.  Four of us jumped in the
hazmat rig, and we proceeded down to the World
Trade to see if we could help.  Two guys went up
the staircase from the squad, and myself and
George in the truck, we reported to the command
station, because we had no tools, no radio, no
masks, nothing.
          When we pulled up, we saw heavy fire,
smoke.  People were jumping.  So we figured we
couldn't do much up here without equipment.  So
K. ESCOFFRY 4
we decided to go to the command station, where
Chief Hayden and Chris was, and we asked Chris,
the aide, if he knew what floor 20 was on.  I
believe he said they were up on the 27th floor,
somewhere up in that area.
     Q.   This was in the north tower, the
command post?
     A.   The north tower.
          We hung around in the north tower in
the lobby for a while.  There were jumpers.
After a while, body parts were flying into the
lobby.  Chief Hayden asked myself and George to
check out a report of a fire that was on the
second floor, the mezzanine.
          We went up to the mezzanine level, and
in the corner, which was exposure 4, we noticed
it looked like it was jet fuel that was just
running down the side of the building.  The fire
wasn't spreading or anything.
          Within that 30-second time we were up
there, an EMS worker asked us to come into the
staircase to help him remove a person that
collapsed in the staircase.  After going into the
staircase, within another minute or so, there was
K. ESCOFFRY 5
a loud explosion.  I believe that's when the
second plane hit.
     Q.   Let me ask you a question.  Do you know
what staircase it was?  Was it A, B, C staircase?
     A.   That was the staircase in exposure 4.
I'm not sure.
     Q.   You're not sure.  Okay.
     A.   Once that explosion happened, the door
to the staircase slammed shut.  When we went back
and pushed the door open, we couldn't breathe.
The dust particles was all in the lobby.  So we
kept the door closed, and people that were
evacuating down, we wound up evacuating them off
that staircase, through a hallway that led back
to the exposure 1 side of the building.
          We evacuated them from there to the
second floor, which was the mezzanine, and took
them down to the lobby.  We took them around to
the mezzanine and over the catwalk that went to
the building north of tower one, which I believe
that's probably building six.
     Q.   The one that goes across?
     A.   Yes, north.  The catwalk that you could
actually see the cars pass under.
K. ESCOFFRY 6
     Q.   Okay.  This one here that goes across
West Street?
     A.   No.
     Q.   This one over here?
     A.   Yeah, this is West Street.  Where is
tower one?
     Q.   Right here.
     A.   The catwalk I guess went across this
street here, Vesey and whatever street this is.
Q. Oh, okay.
     A.   We led the people across, and they
evacuated that way.
          About an hour later me and George
decided let's go out, because we were having
difficulty breathing because we didn't have a
mask.  On the way out between tower one and six,
we heard something like an incoming missile, and
we started to run.  That's when the second tower
came down.
     Q.   Tower number two?
     A.   Right.  That was the first tower that
came down.
          I was knocked down.  When I got up,
there was a hose -- I followed a hose out to the
K. ESCOFFRY 7
street with water flowing from it.  So I washed
my face and washed out my mouth.  I knew George
was behind me, so I called back.  Finally he
answered me.  I told George to come towards my
voice.  We went back to the pumper and he washed
his face, washed out his mouth.  We proceeded to
wet down our hood and put it over our mouth and
nose.
          We walked it seemed like about five or
six blocks before we could even get to somewhere
that we could breathe.  We got up and started to
walk back and forth looking for our company,
hoping that maybe they got out.  So we spent
maybe the next 45 minutes washing up and walking
up and down the side, hoping that our company
would came out.
     Q.   This is West Street?
     A.   Yeah, West Street.
          We didn't see our company.  Nobody saw
them.
          I guess somewhere by the time we washed
up and were walking up and down the west side
looking for our company, the second one came
down.  So we never really got back towards the
K. ESCOFFRY 8
tower.  We wound up walking to 1 and 7 and tried
to get back in touch with Ladder 20.  We tried to
call back at our company, but all the phones were
down so we couldn't get in touch with anybody.
          So we decided to walk to 8 Truck.  We
walked to 8.  Lieutenant Woods and some of the
other officers were over there.  That's when I
realized from watching the TV exactly what
happened.  At first I thought maybe just a
section of the building came down.  Once I saw
the TV, I realized the whole building came down.
          That was it.  The whole day we never
caught back up with 20.  Somewhere later on in
the day we worked our way back to 20 Truck.
     Q.   Is there anything else you want to say?
     A.   The farthest we got was maybe like the
third, fourth floor, helping to evacuate the
civilians.  Like I said, we had no lights.  The
civilians were coming down the staircase.  It was
dark.  We spent maybe 45 minutes in the staircase
helping people finding their way out.  It just
got so bad, we couldn't breathe anymore.  We
decided to start making our way out.  Fortunately
we did.  Maybe 30 yards from the West Side
K. ESCOFFRY 9
Highway, that's when the first tower came down.
     Q.   Thanks a lot for your cooperation.  I
appreciate it.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  It's 1345 hours, and
     this concludes this interview.
File No. 9110461
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER MICHAEL Morabito
   Interview Date:  January 15, 2002
Transcribed by Elizabeth F. Santamaria
2
     January 15, 2002.  The time is 1030 hours and
     this is Battalion Chief Frank Congiusta of
     the Safety Battalion of the New York City
     Fire Department.  I'm conducting an
     interview.
     Q.   Would the following individual please
state your name.
     A.   Michael Morabito.
     Q.   Michael is a fireman third grade, assigned
to Engine 228 of the New York City Fire Department.
We are at the quarters of Engine 228 and this
interview is regarding the events of September 11,
2001.
               Mike, if you would just tell us what
happened in your own words.
     A.   Okay.  I was working and the alarm came
in.  It was a third alarm at the World Trade Center.
We didn't even know a plane had crashed into it.  It
wasn't like a rush right away.  We were relocated to
Engine 205.  So we were hanging around a little bit
getting everything ready to go and then we saw on
the news that a plane hit the building.  So then we
responded immediately.
            Morabito
BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today is
3
                      Morabito
     We reported to Engine 205 and while we were in
their quarters we saw the second plane hit and then
shortly after that we had responded to Manhattan.
First they told us take the Brooklyn Bridge.  We
started to go towards the Brooklyn Bridge.  And then
there was a little confusion.  They said, no, take
the tunnel.  So we were stuck traveling back and
forth, thank God, and we had taken the tunnel, the
Brooklyn Battery Tunnel.
     As soon as we got out the entrance, out on the
Manhattan side of the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel, we
got hit with the first dust cloud and we had no idea
what happened.  We stood there for like a minute or
two and then the dust settled and then we got out
and helped two other people that were there.  There
were some civilians, there was some Port Authority.
We gave them masks and everything to help calm
everybody down a little bit.
     We spent maybe five minutes there or so and
then on the radio they said to proceed to the
staging area.  So we got back in the rig.  We headed
up West Street as far as we could.  I don't really
know what street we were on.  I think it was maybe
West End something, and parked the rig because we
4
gear and started walking to the building, towards
the towers.  We were probably about a block away
when we heard a giant rumbling sound.  It sounded
like jets were going overhead and then we looked up
and we saw the tower start to fall and we just ran.
We outran the dust cloud and got back in the rig.
As soon as we closed the doors on the rig we got hit
with the second cloud and then it was pitch black
for like five minutes.  As soon as that cloud
cleared we got out and there was some personnel,
Fire Department personnell running around.
     We saw one of the doctors from Metro Tech was
there.  He was bleeding a little bit.  We talked to
him.  He said he was okay and stuff.  And then a
lady came running over with an infant that she had
covered up and she said, you know, she was nervous.
So we got her in the rig.  We gave the baby oxygen
and we covered it up so that no more dust would get
him.  And we helped a few other people in the area.
And then when everything settled down a little bit
we grabbed our gear again and proceeded to head
toward the Trade Center again.
     We were waiting, we hooked up with another crew
                      Morabito
couldn't go any further.  And we grabbed all our
5
                      Morabito
or two and we were down by where marine 6 I think
was, by the water and we were waiting.  We didn't
know where to go.  We were waiting to respond.  We
had no orders by anybody yet.
     And another Engine Company had come with just
three guys on it.  It might have been a satellite or
something, because they had all hose on the rig and
they said they needed two guys to help.  So me and I
think it was a control man who was a detail that day
had gone with them.  We told our boss we were gonna
go with them.  We had our radio, we would stay in
contact and we're going with the other company.  We
had taken a hand line and went up West Street,
started putting out all car fires and we were
heading all the way down to the municipal building.
When we got there we were with rescue 5 and we were
holding a hand line with them as they were doing the
search.  They found one fireman.  That guy that they
pulled out with his tooth broken.  I don't know what
his name was.  They found him, so we helped pull him
out.  You know, made a chain, took him out, and then
we held the hose line.  It was me and I think two
guys from Rescue 5 and the rest of Rescue 5 was
searching and then there was a fear of collapse of
6
                      Morabito
the municipal building, the building with all the
scaffolding.  So they finally pulled us out of there
and then we pulled back, and then we had a little
break for a while.
     At that time, I hooked up with my original
company, all my guys and guys from the house after
recall.  And me and one of the guys from here, Mike
Lyons, we went back in searching.  We went through
all the rubble and went under the overpass where all
the rescue rigs were and as we were searching I came
across another firefighter who was -- who said that
they were trapped.  Ladder 5 was trapped in the
tower, what was left of the tower.  So me and Mike
Lyons went over to -- climbed to where the stairwell
was and we hooked up with a guy from Rescue 5 and a
guy from Rescue 2 and we helped rescue one civilian
who was trapped on the 6th floor and pulled him down
there from --
     Q.   From the south tower?
     A.   From I think it was the north tower.
     Q.   South tower would have been like on
Liberty Street and West?
     A.   I really don't know where.  It was where
the guys were trapped, who brought out the lady.
                 Morabito
Q.   Oh, okay.  The north tower.
7
     A.   Yeah.  It was the north tower.  That's it.
That was what, Ladder 5?
Q. Ladder 6.
     A.   Ladder 6.  They were below us with the
lady.  The lady was down there.  We saw her.  There
was already a couple of guys there with her and she
was calm and they said they had a chief down there
and they were trying to get out the guys from Ladder
6.  So we had to climb up and this guy is trapped at
probably about the 7th or 8th floor and he was just
sitting on a piece of concrete when the whole
building came down.  He was just lucky when he
survived.  And a guy from Rescue 2 climbed up above
him, tied him up.  I had shimmied out like a piece
of conduit and he lowered him to me and I pulled him
over, because we were over a big hole, and I pulled
him over to Mike Lyons and a guy from Rescue 5 and
pulled him over and, you know, his ankle, I don't
know if it was broken or if it was fractured and we
helped 6 carry him, because at that time there was
really no one else there and we carried him up and
down this big crater and everything.  I don't know
how far we went.  It was pretty far.  But then by
8
                      Morabito
the time we got across, then there was a whole line
of firemen coming off so we passed them on to him
and then we had gone back to our company and we
waited there for a while and then 7 came down.  They
were running back in.  I think we --
     Q.   They don't really want to know about 7.
Wow, that was pretty good.  That was good you were
there.  When you were coming up West Street, was
there a large number of civilians coming down West
Street?
     A.   Yes.  When we first got there, after Tower
1 had collapsed, a lot of people had run through the
tunnel and we were trying to calm everybody.  We
thought that the tunnel had got hit.  We didn't know
what happened.  We were just trying to tell
everybody to stay calm, don't even go anywhere yet.
You know, we don't know if the tunnel is hit or what
they're hitting.
     Because there was a lot of rumors going around
as you were going.  That they hit the White House,
they hit the Pentagon, they hit Air Force 1.
     "Right now you're safe, so stay here and we'll
see what's going on."
     Then we proceeded up West Street.  Yes, there
9
                      Morabito
were a lot of civilians but they were in an orderly
manner.  They were walking all along -- I know when
we got out and we went by the water over there, I
don't even know what that is.  I guess that's behind
West Street.  Where Battery City is or whatever.
     Q.   The Hudson River.
     A.   Yeah.  They were all walking by there.
They were all in an orderly manner and everything
and then we were just telling them to head towards
Brooklyn.  That's where everybody was going.  And
babies or babies and kids and people like that we
were putting onto Marine 6.  We told them just to
get on Marine 6.  Because they had some stuff there
to help them, because there was still a lot of
debris flying in the air and everything.
     Q.   Very good.  Is there anything else you
want to add?
     A.   No.  That pretty much does it.  I'm trying
to think of stuff --
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  That's
     right.  Thanks for your corporation.  That
     was pretty interesting.  The time is
     11:00 o'clock and this concludes the
     interview.
File No. 9110462
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       LIEUTENANT RUDOLF WEINDLER
   Interview Date:  January 15, 2002
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
R. WEINDLER
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  Today is January
15th, 2002.  The time is 1755.  This is Battalion Chief
Ronald Kemly of the Fire Department of the City of New
York.  I am conducting an interview with Lieutenant
Rudy Weindler of Ladder Company 40 of the Fire
Department of the City of New York in the quarters of
Safety Battalion 1 regarding the events of September
11th, 2001.
     Q.   Lieutenant, can you tell me what happened to
you on September 11th?
     A.   Yes.  On September 11th, I was off duty.  I
was in Nassau County and within sight of the World
Trade Center.  When I saw the smoke coming from the
Trade Center, I got in my car and drove from the
Rockaways to Long Island City, where I left my car and
got into a Fire Department van which was leaving the
Long Island City shops and going to the scene of the
fire.
          I arrived at City Hall Park sometime between
10:30 and a quarter to 11:00, and I went to the
quarters of Engine 6 and borrowed some fire gear,
helmet, turnout coat, pants, boots, gloves,
flashlight.  There was nobody in the quarters at the
time.  The doors were open.
2
R. WEINDLER
          So I started to walk towards the Trade
Center, and apparently the towers had just collapsed or
one -- I'm not sure which ones collapsed.  All I know
is the dust cloud was just coming east and people were
scrambling all over the place.
          I started walking towards the Trade Center
down I believe it was Vesey Street, and I ran into a
Fireman Ron Kemly, who I believe also had borrowed some
gear from somewhere and was unattached to anyone.  So
we hooked up something and we began moving down Vesey
Street.  At that time the dust cloud was still flying
around.  The smaller buildings of the Trade Center were
on fire.  All the cars in the street were on fire, and
there was a Fire Department pumper in the block, I
don't remember what the company number was, but it was
also beginning to burn.  The tires were burning.
          Fireman Kemly had told me that he heard
somebody calling for help.  We looked around, didn't
see anybody at all in the street.  As I said, there was
a lot of smoke and a lot of dust and things flying
around.  Then he heard another call and we found a
woman, a middle-aged woman, inside the Fire Department
pumper whose number I really don't know, and she was
burned, I assume from the jet fuel.  I don't know how.
3
R. WEINDLER
She was really talking incoherent.  So Ron and I
carried her, took her out of the pumper and carried her
back east towards City Hall where we saw an EMS
ambulance and just basically gave the woman to the EMS
workers.
          We then proceeded back down Vesey Street
towards the Trade Center, where we saw several other
firemen who were in various stages of gear, no gear.
Some I recognized; some I didn't.  At that point we
were standing, I believe, on the corner of -- well, it
was the southwest corner of the Church Street Post
Office, and several of the firemen said they heard
someone, again, screaming for help.  They said they saw
a police officer at a window in I believe it was 5
World Trade Center.  I never saw the man.  I heard the
screams for help.
          We went up an escalator to the plaza of, I
believe, 5 World Trade Center.  When we got up there,
we heard some gunshots.  It sounded like he was trying
to alert us by shooting his gun.  Again, I never saw
him.  But when we got to that plaza, the building was
fully involved.  There were no more screams and there
were I-beams and stuff hanging all over the place, so
we made a conscious decision to go back down to the
4
R. WEINDLER
street level.
          The next thing I did was we saw a fire
starting to show at windows in 7 World Trade Center,
decided to go in and try and see if there was anybody
in the building and/or put out the fires, and we did a
search from floor to floor of 7 World Trade Center
passing fire on floors 3, 7, 9.  The standpipes had no
water.  We tried to extinguish a few fires with cans.
When we got to 11, there was just too much smoke and we
decided that, without water, if we went any higher,
we'd be on fool's mission.
          So we left 7 World Trade Center, back down to
the street, where I ran into Chief Coloe from the 1st
Division, Captain Varriale, Engine 24, and Captain
Varriale told Chief Coloe and myself that 7 World Trade
Center was badly damaged on the south side and
definitely in danger of collapse.  Chief Coloe said we
were going to evacuate the collapse zone around 7 World
Trade Center, which we did.
          At that point there were fires in, I guess,
all of the smaller buildings in the Trade Center
complex.  The only place we had any water was in the
Church Street Post Office, where we hooked up some
house lines.  They were just a bunch of firemen, some
5
R. WEINDLER
of them I know, most of them I didn't, just trying to
get water on fires in the smaller buildings of the
Trade Center.  Mostly it was futile.
          At that point we -- I forget who it was.  We
needed water into a tower ladder, I believe it was
146's tower ladder, to put a curtain of water up
between 5 World Trade Center and the Millenium Hotel.
It took quite awhile.  Somehow we got water.  I don't
know where it came from.  The chauffeur from 146 or
somebody else positioned it to put water up between the
Millenium Hotel and 5 World Trade Center.  From that
point, we went into the Millenium Hotel, did a little
search of a couple of floors.  It was already
evacuated, as far as we could tell.
          After we left the Millenium Hotel, we went --
I'm not even sure what I did after I left the Millenium
Hotel.
          At some point, 7 World Trade Center
collapsed.  We were down the block.  We heard it
starting to go.  We ran into a loading dock of some
building on maybe Vesey Street or Dey Street.  I'm
really not sure where.  We waited out for the dust to
settle a little bit.  I did have a Department radio.  I
heard a Mayday.  I didn't know where it came from.
6
R. WEINDLER
When I tried to contact whoever gave the Mayday, I got
no response.
          We moved back down the block into the dust
cloud and realized that 7 World Trade Center had almost
completely collapsed causing some fires now in the
Church Street Post Office.  We had entered the Church
Street Post Office from a pile of rubble that used to
be 7 World Trade Center.  We knew we had water in that
building prior to that collapse and hoped that there
would still be water because there was fire on several
floors.  Again, we hooked house lines together and
extinguished fires on several floors in the Church
Street Post Office.  I'm not sure what the address of
that building is.  That went on for a while.
          Then we exited that Church Street Post Office
and from that point went up on the pile and started
searching voids, looking in holes and voids and trying
to get into basements and into some basements below, I
think, 5 World Trade Center, where we could actually
walk down levels of a parking garage, I guess, just
looking and listening.  Never heard anything.  We
pretty much got to points where we thought it was just
too dangerous to be and then backed out and looked for
another place.
7
R. WEINDLER
          This went on, to the best of my recollection,
until 3:00 or 4:00 o'clock the following morning, when
I walked down to a little hospital by 6 Engine.  I'm
not sure what the name of it is.  I had my eyes washed
out and a doctor looked at me and several other guys,
and then they wanted us to stay, but we just left.  We
laid down in 6 Engine for a couple hours, I guess,
until the sun came up, went back to the site and
started that process of either digging on the pile,
searching voids.  We formed up with teams of guys that
I had worked with years ago in Brooklyn.  At that point
it was just either working on the pile, working with
ironworkers cutting steel, not really knowing or not
really having any game plan, just sort of going to
where you thought you might be able to help somebody.
          I really can't say where any Fire Department
rigs were.  It's all pretty much a blur to me.  On a
few hours rest, I ended up working on the pile until
the sun went down again.  At some point in the middle
of the night, I walked uptown, got on a train, went to
Harlem, laid down in my quarters, 40 Truck, for a
couple hours, then back down to the pile, I don't know,
some commandeered bus or van or something like that.
     Q.   You said at the beginning you went to the
8
R. WEINDLER
shops and got a van.  Did somebody drive the van with
you?
     A.   Yes.  I had my personal car that I had driven
and left on the sidewalk at the shops.  The first
person I saw when I pulled up on the sidewalk was
Lieutenant Vasquez.  I had worked on light duty there
once.  I said how do I get into the city?  He said
there's a van coming out.  A van pulled out.  I don't
know who was driving it.  He said he was going across
the bridge -- he said he was going through the tunnel
to the site, and I just jumped in the van, left my car
on the sidewalk, jumped in the van.
     Q.   So it was just you and the guy driving?
     A.   Me, the guy driving, and then there was
another officer in there.  There was a guy driving, a
Lieutenant, whose name escapes me, and myself.
     Q.   You said you were heading towards the Trade
Center on Vesey Street when the building came down and
there was a big dust cloud.  Do you know Vesey and
what, approximately?
     A.   All I remember is, when I was in 6 Engine's
quarters -- I jumped out of the van.  The van came off
the bridge right by City Hall.  I don't know what their
plan was.  I don't know where they were going.  My plan
9
R. WEINDLER
was to get some gear before I did anything.  So I
jumped out of the van right at City Hall and I ran down
to 6 Engine to get some gear.  Then that took me a few
minutes.  I don't know if that's when the towers
collapsed.  I really don't know.  All I know is that,
when I came out of 6's quarters, the dust was
everywhere.  So I don't know if that was the first, the
second.  I really don't know.
     Q.   You said you saw a pumper.  You don't know
which one it was, but do you know what block it was on?
     A.   I believe it was on Vesey Street.
     Q.   Vesey and what?
     A.   Just west of Broadway.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   It was definitely west of Broadway.
     Q.   You said you saw it when you first got there
after you hooked up with the other fireman and then
later on you saw some guys that you recognized?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Do you know what companies they were from?
     A.   Yes.  Actually, I saw Jimmy Duffy, Captain of
23 Truck, and Abe Haiman, Captain of 30 Truck, and I
believe Jimmy Hodges, who was a covering Battalion
Chief from the 11th Battalion at the time.  I hooked up
10
R. WEINDLER
with them after Fireman Kemly and I had gotten the
woman from the pumper and brought her back to EMS, then
started back down I believe it's Vesey Street, and
then, when I saw Jimmy Duffy and Abe Haiman, that's
when somebody from across the street was yelling that
there was a policeman in the window of the Trade
Center.
          So I think all of us that went up to that
plaza, Jimmy Duffy, Abe Haiman, Jimmy Hodges, Ron Kemly
and myself, I believe we all went up to that plaza, but
there was just nothing to be done.  It was just all
fire.
     Q.   Now, you said you came out of 7 and you saw
Chief Coloe?
A. Yes.
     Q.   And Captain Varriale.  Do you know which side
of 7 you came out of?
     A.   We came out of --
     Q.   Facing the towers?
     A.   No.  There's a street that runs between
Church Street Post Office and 7 World Trade Center,
which would be the east side of 7 World Trade Center.
We came out of the door on that side.  I met Chief
Coloe and Captain Varriale on the northeast corner of 7
11
R. WEINDLER
World Trade Center.
     Q.   Did they have radios, do you remember?
     A.   Don't remember.
     Q.   You said after that you ran into some more
firemen that you knew from Brooklyn?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Do you know whether they responded to the
tower or came in off duty?
     A.   Came in off duty.  Some of them were from 290
and 103 and some of them were from 214 and 111.
     Q.   But they were definitely off duty; they
didn't come with their companies?
     A.   They didn't come with their companies.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   Actually, the guys from 111, it was maybe six
or seven guys and no officer, and one of the guys said
we'll just hang with you and we'll see what happens.  I
had the radio, so that was a big asset at the time.
          BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  If you don't have
anything else, this will conclude the interview.
you. time.
LIEUTENANT WEINDLER:  Okay, Chief.  Thank
BATTALION CHIEF KEMLY:  Thanks for your
12
File No. 9110463
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         PARAMEDIC ROBERTO ABRIL
   Interview Date:  January 17, 2002
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
R. ABRIL
          MR. MURAD:  Today is January 17, 2002.  The
     time is 0800 hours.  My name is Murray Murad of
     the Fire Department of the City of New York.  I'm
     conducting an interview with the following
     individual.
     Q.   Please state your name, your rank and your
command please?
     A.   Paramedic Abril, Battalion 49.
     Q.   This interview is being conducted at
Battalion 49 in Astoria station.  This is regarding the
events of September 11, 2001.  Would you please give us
your perspective on that day, on what happened on that
tragic day?
     A.   We were working.  We started to work at 8
o'clock.  We got a job for an OB comp, somewhere in
Astoria, and we went to aid, to help one of the BLS
units here, I think it was 5 Adam, with a patient.  We
ended up going 82 to Elmhurst.
          When we were 81 at Elmhurst, we received --
the guy on 6 Zebra told us that we were assigned to the
World Trade Center, because a plane had hit one of the
buildings.  I didn't believe it to begin with and I
told Carlos that we had to go to the World Trade Center
because there was a plane that crashed into the
2
R. ABRIL
building.
          We took off 63 from Elmhurst.  We went down
Woodside Avenue to Queens Boulevard and took the
Midtown Tunnel through.
     Q.   Just one question.  Sorry to interrupt you.
Who was your partner on that day?
     A.   Carlos Lillo.
     Q.   Carlos was your partner?
     A.   We went down to the Midtown Tunnel, but at
that point, there was only one plane had hit one of the
buildings and the other one was still intact.  So we
went out to the other side in Manhattan.  We went
across 34 Street to Tenth Avenue.  We went down Tenth
Avenue and we took Broadway, West Broadway down to the
World Trade Center.
          We were stopped at West Broadway and Vesey by
one of the Lieutenants there, he told us to bring our
vehicles around to where everybody was staging.
Instead the staging of the vehicles took place at
Washington and Vesey.
          At that point is when Carlos took his gear
and said well, I'm going to go ahead and go to triage
while you park the vehicle.  We didn't know -- it
looked serious, but we didn't know it was so
3
R. ABRIL
traumatic.
          I parked my vehicle.  I asked the Lieutenant
if I should leave the keys.  He told me no, just to
stay by the vehicle, but there were plenty of people
pulling me aside to help them out.  I remember a lot of
leg fractures and extremity fractures.  I found myself
triaging people.  Many of the Metro Care ambulances
were sent away with patients, but I mean, when the
Lieutenant disappeared, there was nobody else at the
triage where they had parked all the vehicles.  There
was nobody else there.
          The initial collapse, not the actual
collapse, but the top part of the building collapsed on
top of these firemen and cops on West Broadway and
Vesey as I was walking towards the building.  I was
unable to make it any more, because there was a lot of
dust.
          We witnessed a lot of stuff.  We witnessed
people falling off the buildings.  We witnessed a lot
of firemen dying from the initial collapse.  You know,
all this time Lillo was trying to get to me.  He got on
the TAC two channel on the radios.  He told me that he
was on West Broadway in the middle, between World -- I
think it was 6 World Trade Center and the north tower.
4
R. ABRIL
          That's when he told me to come over and meet
him, so what I did was I went around 6 World Trade
Center to try and meet him and at that point is when
the north tower collapsed and I couldn't make it there
any more.
          On the way back, again, a lot of people were
pulling at me, telling me to help them and I got some
of these people in the ambulance.  I kind of drove up a
couple of blocks, I think it was Warren Street, I see
it now.  I think it was Warren Street, where I stopped
and let them out and then I went back trying to look
for my partner, but I found myself picking up more
people and putting them again on Warren Street.
          Then I went back a third time.  Then I found
myself stuck treating an old lady that was in a
wheelchair with her daughter I think it was.  I tried
to -- wheel her back to the ambulance.  On the way back
to the ambulance, I met up with a couple of other
paramedics that they said they were from the Bronx.  We
were trying to -- it was all chaos.  We didn't know
what to do, where to go, so between the three of us, we
kind of got together and tried to get some of these
people out.
          Finally again, put some of the patients in
5
R. ABRIL
this ambulance.  I think it was when the south tower
collapsed is when we took our last set of people, but
it was some of the parking police department, those
people that give out the tickets.  The last three that
I took out with these paramedics and we took them out
to, I think it was Canal Street or one of those
streets, about 10 blocks away from the actual site.
          I went back, but at that point I couldn't go
back any more, because it was too much dust.  It was a
lot of smoke and actually there was a lot of people
that needed help.  I couldn't go back.
          My main concern was to get my partner.  I
couldn't find him.  I kept saying if anybody saw him,
but I guess everybody was busy.
     Q.   Did you happen to find out where Carlos' last
location was where he was operating at?
     A.   Physically I didn't go.  I couldn't get there
because of what I just said.  But he told me it was
between the building that we initially saw.  He told me
between the two buildings, come into the north tower,
and that's what I was trying to do.  So I figure he was
between the 6 World Trade Center and the north tower.
Somewhere around there.
          Like I said, there was 3 collapses.  The
6
R. ABRIL
first one that the top of the building collapsed.  I
see here is the northeast plaza building.  That
building collapsed first.
     Q.   That was the south tower?
     A.   Yes, that would make it the south tower,
yes.  So the top of that building collapsed.  Like I
said, I witnessed 5 people got killed there.  Then it
was too much dust.  That's when I think I saw Captain
Rivera there too.  I asked him if he had seen my
partner and he said listen, I'm going to go back in
there.
     Q.   Who was that, Captain Rivera?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Joseph Rivera?
     A.   Yes, JR.
     Q.   Okay, JR, fine.
     A.   I told him listen, I'm missing my partner.
We got separated for some reason and I need to go
back.  I need to find him.  He says don't worry about
it.  I'm going to go back in.  You take care of these
people and I will go back in and find him.  He did.  He
went back in.  That was about it.
          When we were -- they didn't let us go to
Citywide.  They told to us stay on Queens west.  The
7
R. ABRIL
reason how I know that is because there was a lot of
traffic and I remember in all the chaos, I wanted to
make sense of why people were still going to Rikers
Island.  Why are people still going to minor injuries
when we need a lot of help here.
          I remember listening to the radio, to all the
normal traffic that you would have, when I know these
people would need help.  When the initial collapse
happened, all my masks ran out.  I had like 20 of those
 -- I think they are class A or class one masks that we
always  carry.  But I gave them out and as soon as -- 5
minutes they were all gone.  I remember keeping, I said
listen, I got only two left.  I had one for myself and
one for my partner.  I can't gave give them away any
more.  Then I remember getting on the radio and saying
listen, can somebody bring some masks, because I need a
lot of masks over here.
          That was about it.  When I turned around and
I tried to help these people before the north tower
collapsed, the first big collapse, we were helping
-- we were at, I think the American Express building.
We had people that were burnt.  We had people that had
fractures and other people with psychological type of
problems.  We had staged them there, because there was
8
R. ABRIL
really no control over anything at that point.  That's
when the north tower collapsed.  It was when I heard
Mayday, Mayday.  Some of the firemen that were running
back were telling us run, run, run.  We started to run
and now that I think about it, some of these people
with fractured limbs, they kind of took off running.
          That's it.  Then after that, we just started
to drive and we started to treat these people and I
lost my partner.  That was it.
     Q.   Is there anything else that you would like to
add or that you can think of?
     A.   About the whole thing?
     Q.   Yes.  Personal stuff.
     A.   At that point, what I didn't understand was
why is it that we were triaging people on the first
floor of this building that has a plane on top.  I
couldn't understand that.  When I had a chance to walk
in to see what was going on, there were actually close
to 5 DOAs on the street.  Some of them had no legs,
some of them that had no arms.  There was a torso with
one leg, with an EMS jacket on top.  I guess somebody
wanted to just cover it.  There was a fireman that had
been hit by a body.  I really didn't understand why is
it that we were triaging people on the first floor
9
R. ABRIL
instead of going somewhere else.
          What else did we do?  Then after that
everything came down and we were away from the dust
cloud and everything, we were somewhere around, I think
it was West 23 Street, somewhere around there.  You
could still smell the dust and smoke and we just wanted
to come back.  We kept going back, but at one point it
was useless because most of the people that could get
out were already walking back and there wasn't too many
people other than the regular hysterical people, there
was no really injuries.
          Other than -- maybe we treated a couple of
eyes injuries, cops that were coming out.  There was
one cop that was actually crying blood.  There was
blood dripping down from his eyes and later I found
out, the doctor explained to me that when you get
concrete in your eyes it becomes rock and when you
close your eyes, your cornea, your eye is bleeding.  So
I guess -- we just flushed the eyes and they kept
going.
          That's pretty much it.
          MR. MURAD:  Paramedic Abril, I would like to
     thank you for this interview.  The time now is 015
     hours.  This concludes this interview.  Thank you
very much.
10

FILE NO 9110464
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT KEVIN BARRETT
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 17 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

AND STUFF LIKE THAT DID OUR LITTLE ROUTINE
BARRETT
MR MURAD TODAYS DATE JARIUTARY 17
2002 THE TIME IS 0700 HOURS MY NAME IS MURRAY MURAD OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME
KEVIN BARRETT SHIELD NUMBER 1465
YOUR RANK
EMT
WHAT IS YOUR ASSIGNED COMMAND
BATTALION 49
OKAY THE LOCATION OF THE INTERVIEW IS BEING
CONDUCTED AT BATTALION 49 ASTORIA THIS IS REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001 CAN YOU JUST GIVE US
WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAY IN YOUR OWN WORDS
SURE CAME INTO WORK YOU KNOW IT WAS
TYPICAL DAY SO IT WAS MY WIFES BIRTHDAY WAS GOING
TO YOU KNOW WAS TALKING TO MY PARTNER DECIDING
WHAT WAS GOING TO DO FOR HER TAKE HER OUT TO DINNER
GOT BREAKFAST READING THE PAPERS AND APPROXIMATELY ABOUT
915 WE WERE TOLD TO GO TO THE 59 STREET BRIDGE AND STAND BY AND WAIT FOR FURTHER INSTRUCTIONS
WE WERE TOLD TO SWITCH TO CITYWIDE AND UPON

BARRETT
LLITERIIRIG TO CITYWIDE THEY CAUE OVER ARID CORIFIRUED
1040 AT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER 1040 IS AN AIRPLANE CRASH WE WERE SITTING THERE WAITING FOR INSTRUCTIONS SITTING THERE WITH LIEUTENANT SCARINGELLO AND OTHER UNITS THAT WERE TOLD TO STAND BY THE BRIDGE AND APPROXIMATELY ABOUT 920 925 WE WERE TOLD TO RESPOND IN TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AND STAND BY AT VESEY AND WEST STREET
UPON HEARING THAT WE RESPONDED IN WE FOLLOWED ANOTHER UNIT AND WE FOLLOWED ESU TRUCK
STRAIGHT CENTER
DOWN INTO MANHATTAN TO THE WORLD TRADE
UPON LISTENING TO CITYWIDE WE WERE TOLD
BEING WE WERE HAZMAT UNIT WE WERE TOLD TO GO TO DIFFERENT LOCATION SO UPON ARRIVING AT THE AREA WE TOLD THE LIEUTENANT WHO WAS DIRECTING EVERYBODY SAID WE ARE HAZMAT UNIT HE TOLD US TO MAKE RIGHT AND TO BE HONEST WITH YOU DONT REMEMBER WHAT THE STREET NAME WAS EVEN LOOKING AT THE MAP IT WAS JUST SO
WAS GETTING INTO WHAT WE HAD TO DO MY ASSIGNMENT
SO WE GET THERE SAW CAPTAIN JANICE OLSZEWSKI TOLD HER WE ARE HAZMAT UNIT YOU KNOW WE ARE HERE 49 HENRY AND SHE SAID OKAY YOU STAND BY WITH ME HAVE YOUR PARTNER GET YOUR TRUCK READY AND WE

BARRETT
WILL YOUR AIRTBUTLARICE SUPPLY TRUCK IF WE RICED ANYTHING
UPON COMING DOWN EVERYTHING WAS GOING GOOD PEOPLE BEING BROUGHT DOWN TO US BEING TRIAGED WAS WORKING WITH THE CAPTAIN LIEUTENANT BRUCE MEDJEK AND WAS TRYING TO ORGANIZE EVERYTHING LITTLE BIT BETTER
ENDED UP TALKING TO PARAMEDIC CARLOS LILLO HE KEPT ASKING ME WHERE IS MY WIFE HAVE YOU SEEN MY WIFE
HAVE YOU SEEN MY WIFE SAID CARLOS DONT WORRY SHE IS GOING TO BE OKAY SHE IS AROUND WE WILL FIND
HER CONCENTRATE ON DOING WHAT YOU GOT TO DO DO WHAT WE ARE HERE FOR
UPON THAT LOT OF CIVILIANS WERE COMING AND TRYING TO ANSWER THEIR QUESTIONS AND THE COPS ASKED ME DO YOU HAVE ANY FIRE LINE TAPE OR ANYTHING THAT WE CAN
BLOCK THE ROAD OFF SAID YES HAVE HAZMAT TAPE SO GOT THE HAZMAT TAPE OUT OF MY TRUCK CORDONED OFF
THE AREA SO THE CIVILIANS ALL THE NOSY PEOPLE WOULDNT COME IN AND BOTHER US SO WE COULD DO OUR JOB
APPROXIMATELY 950 WE HEARD THIS LOUD NOISE LOOKED UP AND IT SOUNDED LIKE ANOTHER
AIRPLANE WAS COMING IN THATS WHAT IT SOUNDED IT
SOUNDED LIKE LARGE ENGINE LIKE YOURE SITTING ON THE SEAT ON THE WING OF THE PLANE THATS THE BEST WAY

BARRETT
CAN DESCRIBE WHAT IT OUTNIDED LIKE
WE LOOK UP AND WE SAW TOWER TWO COMING DOWN
WE JUST ALL RAN LOST MY PARTNER LOST EVERYBODY WAS WORKING WITH THAT DAY LET ME BACKTRACK FOR
SECOND
WHEN WE WERE PUTTING UP THIS HAZMAT TAPE TURNED AROUND AND SAID TO CARLOS PARTNER PARAMEDIC ABRIL SAID WHERE IS CARLOS MEAN BY THAT TIME CARLOS WAS GONE WE DONT KNOW WHERE HE WENT BUT WE
THINK HE WENT IN TO LOOK FOR HIS WIFE WE DONT KNOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT TOWER WAS BOTH TOWERS
STILL UP OR DID HE RUN DO YOU KNOW WHAT TOWER HE WAS
HEADING TOWARDS
NO BOTH TOWERS WERE STILL UP WHEN WE WERE
AT WHAT POINT DID YOU ACTUALLY LOSE CARLOS
WOULD SAY MAYBE ROUGHLY ABOUT 945 SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE JUST BOBBY AND JUST TURNED
AROUND AND HE WAS GONE IT WAS JUST REMEMBER
BOBBY TELLING ME HE GAVE ME HIS PAGER BECAUSE HE HAS AN ALPHA NUMERIC PAGER AND HE SAID WILL CALL YOU AND
LET YOU KNOW WHERE AM WE NEVER HEARD FROM HIM AGAIN
THEN LIKE SAID WHEN TOWER TWO WAS COMING

RIGHT
GO AHEAD
THATS WHEN TOWER TWO CAME DOWN
WHICH IS YOU ARE REFERRING TO GUESS THE SOUTH TOWER
OKAY BECAUSE THE NORTH TOWER IS STILL UP
RIGHT
IT WAS THE SOUTH TOWER THAT CAME DOWN
THEN GOT OUT GOT OUT FROM UNDERNEATH
BARRETT
DOWN WE JU ALL SCATTERED ARID YOUNG LADY WA
GETTING TRAMPLED ON PICKED UP HER UP AND SAID COME ON LETS GO WE ONLY GOT UP AROUND THE CORNER SHE WENT ONE WAY WENT ANOTHER WAY THE LAST THING REMEMBER IS IT STARTED GETTING GRAY GRAY IT TURNED PITCH BLACK AND GET UP TURN AROUND LIKE
COULDNT MOVE FIGURED OUT WAS UNDERNEATH CAR
GOT UP AND WAS JUST GOT OUT FROM
UNDERNEATH THE CAR AND REALIZED
WAS UNDERNEATH
POLICE CAR PRAYING HOW LUCKY WAS
THATS WHEN THE SOUTH TOWER CAME DOWN
MADE SURE WAS OKAY DIDNT SEE ANY BLOOD
THE CAR
OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT ON ME THERE WAS TWO GENTLEMEN
BEHIND ME WANTED TO MAKE SURE THEY WERE OKAY THEY WERE OKAY SAID OKAY
OKAY

BARRETT
WE WALKED INTO STORE ARID WE YOU KNOW GOT SOME WATER CLEANED OUT SOME OF THE STUFF OUT OF OUR THROATS BECAUSE WE WERE ALL JUST COUGHING AND GAGGING AND ALL THE STUFF THAT WE INHALED AND
INGESTED ASKED TO MAKE SURE THEY WERE OKAY THEY WERE
WE WALKED INTO THE STORE AND JUST STARTED
LOOKING AT PEOPLE TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY WAS OKAY ALL OF SUDDEN HEAR MY NAME CALLED OUT AND END UP
HOOKING UP WITH MY PARTNER AGAIN WHICH WAS ANOTHER MIRACLE IN ITSELF BECAUSE WE JUST RAN
GOT INTO THE STORE AND WE UST SAW MY PARTNER AND WAS LIKE YOU ARE OKAY HE WAS OKAY HE WASNT HURT EITHER THEN WE WERE GOING TO GO BACK
OUT WE WENT BACK OUT TO CHECK TO MAKE SURE WE WERE GOING TO GO BACK DOWN TO THE AREA MAKE SURE EVERYBODY WAS OKAY SEE WHAT WE COULD DO AND THATS WHEN THE

BARRETT
NORTH TOWER STARTED COMING DOWN
WE RAN AGAIN BY THE TIME WE RAN WE JUST
GOT DONT KNOW WHERE WE WERE WHAT WE WERE DOING WE JUST KEPT RUNNING AFTER THE NORTH TOWER CAME DOWN WE WERE ABLE TO FIND EMT MOUSSA DIAZ ANOTHER ONE OF
OUR CO WORKERS OUT OF OUR STATION THE THREE OF US
JUST HUGGED EACH OTHER IT WAS LIKE MIRACLE THAT WE ALL SURVIVED THAT IT WAS JUST SOMETHING WILL NEVER EVER FORGET AS LONG AS LIVE WAS UNABLE TO GET IN TOUCH WITH MY WIFE LET HER KNOW WAS ALIVE GET IN TOUCH WITH MY PARENTS ANYBODY MY CELLPHONE WAS
DEAD COULDNT MAKE CALLS OUT BECAUSE THE TOWERS
THE LINES WERE DOWN
FINALLY AT ABOUT SAY ONE OCLOCK MY MOTHER LAW WAS ABLE TO GET IN TOUCH WITH MY
CELLPHONE TOLD HER CALL MY WIFE CALL MY MOM LET HER KNOW IM OKAY IM ALIVE DONT KNOW WHAT TIME
IM COMING HOME AT ALL WAS ABLE TO GET IN TOUCH WITH MY WIFE ABOUT 600 THAT NIGHT AT MY HOUSE TO LET HER KNOW WAS OKAY YOU KNOW
DISASTER
IT WAS JUST BEAUTIFUL DAY TURNED INTO
FELT LIKE WAS IN MOVIE AT FIRST WHEN
YOU SEE EVERYTHING YOU KNOW TYPICAL MOVIE YOU WOULD SEE MOVIE AND EVERYTHING IS LIKE STORM AND

BARRETT
TORNADO ARID EVERYTHING TUTRNI GRAY
AND IM IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS IT WAS LIKE THOUGHT IT WAS DREAM AND THEN IT WAS REALITY
ALL RIGHT IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD TO THE INTERVIEW
NO JUST THAT IM LUCKY TO BE HERE TO TALK
ABOUT IT
MR MURAD OKAY EMT BARRETT WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING US TO GIVE THIS INTERVIEW THE TIME NOW IS 709 HOURS THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW THANK YOU
ARID PITCH BLACK
File No. 9110465
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
            EMT MOUSSA DIAZ
   Interview Date:  January 17, 2002
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
M. DIAZ
          MR. MURAD:  Today's date is January 17,
     2002.  The time is 545 hours.  My name is Murray
     MURAD of the Fire Department of the City of New
     York.
     Q.   I'm conducting an interview with --
     A.   MOUSSA DIAZ, EMT, 3203 for the New York City
Fire Department, EMS.
     Q.   This interview is being conducted at
Battalion 49, Astoria station.  This is regarding the
events of September 11, 2001.  EMT DIAZ, just give us
your perspective on what occurred that day.
     A.   What happened was we had a job, pregnant
complications, so I called for back up medics 49
Victor, Tour 2.  We brought the patient over to
Elmhurst Hospital.  Upon getting our ACR signed, Carlos
Lillo came running over and told us a plane just hit
the tower, you know, let's come up available as soon as
possible and head down there.
          Got on the radio, we got in the ambulance and
got on the radio, and we told them we were going to be
responding, so we followed 9 Victor en route to the
tower from Elmhurst Hospital in Queens.
     Q.   Keep going.
     A.   Elmhurst Hospital in Queens.  From there, we
2
M. DIAZ
drove down to the Midtown Tunnel.  Took the Midtown
Tunnel.  Our destination was Barclay and Vesey.  From
there me and my partner -- 9 Victor went their way.  Me
and my partner went towards 1 World Trade Center, where
the command post was.
     Q.   What was your partner's name, who were you
working with that day?
     A.   Paul Adams, shield number 2212.  We were
directed to go to either Barclay and Vesey, right
across the street from the 1 World Trade Center.
That's where we met Captain -- I don't know her name.
We had our first patient that had about 70 percent
degree burns.  We assessed her.  We transported her to
St. Vinny's.  We came back from St. Vinny's, back to
the same location.   The Captain had told me there is a
lady with a cardiac condition, so we sat her down on
the stretcher.
          All of a sudden we heard a big boom and I
looked up and the tower started to collapse, so I
instructed the patient, I told her make a run for it.
From then we all ran.  I lost my partner and a big
black cloud of debris started coming around the corner
from, I believe it's 5 World Trade Center.
     Q.   When you said you heard a boom, what tower --
3
M. DIAZ
can you describe which tower --
     A.   I believe it was tower one, because we were
right in front of it.  Right between, there is a
street.  There is like a path.  We were against the
building.  5 World Trade Center.  I believe that was
what it was, and 1 World Trade Center.  It was directly
above it and that's where the command post was.
          When we heard the big boom, I looked up and I
just saw the building collapsing.  My patient was on
the stretcher and I unstrapped her and I said make a
run for it.  We ran around the corner.  Everybody just
started trampling.  I fell on the floor, and that's
when a ball of dust started coming in between the
blocks of buildings and my visibility was gone for a
while.  I ran into a pole, couldn't breathe and a
cameraman, a guy had a camera I couldn't see and all I
saw was a bobbing light.  I ran over to the cameraman
and he grabbed me and we started feeling for -- things
-- things seem, you know -- we were losing air, trying
to feel somewhere where we can get in and trying to
open car doors and then we felt for a city bus.  We
opened up the door, went in, I was looking for buttons
to turn it on.  We turned this bus on and we started
taking people inside the bus to get a little refuge,
4
M. DIAZ
because there was no visibility.
          From there, I thanked him for saving my life
and stepped off the bus.  Everybody else stepped off
and we started running.  Then another cloud came.  We
had some visibility and I had some sense of direction
where I'm running towards.  I ran towards -- I believe
it was Federal Plaza.  By the courts.  I took refuge
there here, by the Federal Building, the US Post
Office.  We ran up towards this way.  We took refuge
there.  I got the fire hydrant that was open and I got
some water to clear my face and stuff.  We had like a
little command post.  People running up to me.  I was
by myself and asked me what should I do.  I just had
them sit down, because there was asthmatics, there was
pregnant people, nothing really major.
          From there, I went back because my partner
was gone.  I went back, I walked back and I walked back
down West towards the location of the command post, but
it was impossible because there was no visibility
towards that area.  That's when I saw EMT Barrett
running out and EMT Monchery running out.  They were
from my Battalion.  They were all dusted up and we
just, you know, started hugging each other and stuff.
          From there, I believe one of them had a
5
M. DIAZ
radio, because I lost my equipment and everything.  We
heard that people needed help down at -- I think it was
down Broadway and -- I'm not too sure.  Couple of
blocks over.
          We went there and there was an ambulance.
The Captain that was in charge of the command area was
there and an ambulance.  I don't know the people's
names.  We drove to a corner, because there was
somebody in distress like two blocks down.  It was just
a guy that was in our situation, but he was stable and
started to go on his way.
          From there, they drove me to the West Side
Highway to get checked out.  I got triaged over there,
mini triage, and I stayed there until the duration,
until 1 in the morning basically.
          The rest of the people from Battalion 49 that
were there, we all went under the ambulances and we
went down back to the station.
     Q.   Just a couple of questions.  Actually, so you
were there when the north tower collapsed.  Was the
south tower down already?
     A.   No, I was there -- I don't know which the
first tower that went down.
     Q.   You were there for the first -- so that was
6
M. DIAZ
the south tower that came down?
     A.   Probably, yes.
     Q.   Then you were there for the north tower,
also, collapse?
     A.   Yes, I was there.
     Q.   Radio, did you have any radio communications?
     A.   I lost my radio when I got tr -- because when
I was on the stretcher, I had the patient on the
stretcher.  I unstrapped her and I told her run.  I
unstrapped her and I told her to run and the people
just started trampling on you.  My helmet was gone
because I didn't have it strapped on tight enough.  My
radio, my equipment that was on the scene was gone.  My
ambulance was parked a block and a half away and if I
would have went there I wouldn't have made it.  If I
would have went towards the ambulance I definitely
would have -- I was about a block and a half way away
from --
     Q.   Is there anything else that you would like to
add at this time?
     A.   Not at all.
          MR. MURAD:  Time now is 0600 hours.  This
     concludes the interview.  I would like to thank
     EMT DIAZ for this interview.  Thank you.
7

FILE NO 91104CC
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW CAPTAIN JOHN LUONGO
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 17 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY MAUREEN MCCORMICK

BATTALIUN CHIEF CUNGIUSTA THE TIME 1340 HOURS AND THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF FRANK CONGIUSTA OF THE SAFETY BATTALION OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT
IM CONDUCTING WITH INTERVIEW WITH THE
FOLLOWING
INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME
JOHN LUONGO
BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA JOHN LUONGO IS THE CAPTAIN OF ENGINE 84 OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE
DEPARTMENT WE ARE AT THE QUARTERS OF ENGINE 84 THIS INTERVIEW IS REGARDING THE EVENTS OF
SEPTEMBER 11 2001
JOHN IF YOU WOULD PLEASE STATE IN YOUR OWN
WORDS WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAY
WE WERE RELOCATED FROM HERE TO 16 ENGINE
YES 16 ENGINE ON 29TH STREET THINK IT WAS ON THE EAST SIDE SO WE WERE JUST WHEN WE LEFT HERE WE KNEW THAT BOTH TOWERS HAD BEEN HIT WE KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON DOWNTOWN
AS WE BACKED INTO 16S QUARTERS THE FIRST
THE SOUTH TOWER WAS COLLAPSING THE GUYS WERE
RECALLED AND ANYBODY WHO HAD STAYED WHOEVER WAS IN THEIR FIREHOUSE WAS WATCHING IT ON TELEVISION AS SOON

LUONGO
THE OUTTII TOWER COLLAJMED WE WERE TO THE BOX WE WERE INSTRUCTED TO REPORT IN ON WEST STREET
AND REPORT IN TO THE COMMAND CENTER ON WEST AND VESEY WE MADE IT TO THE WEST SIDE WE HEADED DOWN
WEST STREET WE GOT IM GOING TO SAY DOWN AROUND STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL IM NOT EXACTLY SURE WHERE WE STOPPED OUR RIG WHAT STREET THAT WAS BUT WE JUST COULDNT DRIVE ANY FURTHER THE STREET WAS JUST CLOGGED WITH RIGS MAYBE WARREN WARREN MURRAY AROUND THERE
WHEN WE GOT OFF THE RIGS DONT KNOW THE BATTALION CHIEFS NAME BUT THERE WERE CHIEFS
INSTRUCTING US NOT TO GO TO VESEY AT THAT POINT BUT TO WAIT THINK THEY WERE CREATING STAGING AREA DOWN
AROUND MURRAY OR BARCLAY BUT THAT KEPT CHANGING THEY KEPT PUSHING US BACK AND FORTH
WE HAD OUR ROLL UPS WE HAD EXTRA BOTTLES
WE HAD SEARCH ROPES WE HAD ALL OUR EQUIPMENT WE WERE STANDING ON WEST STREET AGAIN IM NOT HUNDRED PERCENT SURE WHERE EXACTLY WE WERE HOW CLOSE TO VESEY WE WERE BUT WE WERE PRETTY CLOSE BECAUSE THEN WHILE WE WERE WAITING FOR FURTHER ORDERS THE NORTH TOWER COLLAPSED AND AS IT STARTED TO COLLAPSE JUST TOLD MY GUYS TO HIGHTAIL IT OUT OF THERE

LUONGO
JU WATCHED THE COLLAJME DIDNT KNOW IF THE BUILDING WAS GOING TO GO ONE WAY OR THE OTHER
DIDNT KNOW WHETHER THERE WAS GOING TO BE DEBRIS FIELD HOW FAR THE DEBRIS WOULD GO WAS JUST
WATCHING THE COLLAPSE AND THEN IN MATTER OF SECONDS WE WERE JUST ENVELOPED IN DARKNESS AT WHICH POINT WE
JUST HEARD LOT OF SCREAMING NOT ON THE RADIO SO
MUCH BUT PEOPLE YELLING
SOME GUYS DROPPED THEIR MASKS TO BE ABLE TO
RUN QUICKER THEY WERE HAVING TROUBLE BREATHING IT WAS JUST PITCH BLACK JUST WALKED TO THE SIDE TO ONE
OF THE DIVIDERS AND JUST FOLLOWED THE DIVIDER NORTH UNTIL WE HIT DAYLIGHT
AT THAT POINT WE WERE UP AROUND THINK MANHATTAN COMMUNITY COLLEGE THINK WE WALKED THAT
FAR TO GET OUT OF THE DUST GOT THE REST OF MY GUYS TOGETHER WE WERE ALL OKAY MIKE QATES WHO WAS
DRIVING THAT DAY ASKED ME IF HE COULD TRY AND DRIVE OVER TO WHAT IS IT EAST END AVENUE
BY THE WATER
YES
BY THE HUDSON RIVER
YES WHICH HE DID HE BROUGHT OUR RIG
AROUND DOWN RIVER TERRACE NORTH END AVENUE

LUONGO
WHICHEVER ARID THEN BROUTGHIT IT AROUTNID ARID WE ACTUALLY WOUND UP ON VESEY WITH THE RIG
WE GOT INTO THE RELAY FROM THE FIRE BOAT WE HOOKED UP TO HYDRANT INITIALLY AND THAT WAS WE WERE RUNNING AWAY FROM WATER WE HAD SOME BUT WE WERE RUNNING AWAY FROM WATER AND THEN WE GOT INVOLVED IN
THE RELAY WE WERE SUPPLYING 224 ENGINE LITTLE
CLOSER TO THE SITE THEY WERE PROBABLY RIGHT ON WEST AND VESEY WE WERE BY THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING
AND THERE WAS COUPLE OF OTHER ENGINES BETWEEN US AND THE WATER ALL HOOKING UP INTO THIS RELAY SO EVENTUALLY WHAT WE DID WITH THE ENGINE WAS SUPPLY MANIFOLD AND THEN MANIFOLD WAS SUPPLYING
HAND LINES
HAND LINES THERE WAS TOWER LADDER
OPERATING FOR AWHILE AND THEN ONCE WE HAD ALL OUR RIG
AND EVERYTHING ALL SET UP THEN WE WERE JUST OPERATING UNDER THE COMMAND OF THAT THE WEST AND VESEY COMMAND
POST DOING RECOVERY SEARCHING YOU KNOW SEARCH AND
RECOVERY WORK JUST ON THE PERIPHERY THOUGH WE NEVER REALLY GOT INTO THE MAIN
THE MAIN COLLAPSE
PILE AND RECALLED ENGINE 39S CHAUFFEUR
TRYING TO GET IN TOUCH WITH HIS OFFICER AND HE WAS

LUONGO
DOING IT FOR AWHILE IT WA CJUTITE AWHILE THAT LIE WA TRYING TO GET IN TOUCH WITH HIM DONT KNOW IF ANYBODY KNEW WHERE THEY WERE AT THE TIME
DONT RECALL ANY MAYDAYS OR ANY ACTUAL TRANSMISSIONS FROM PEOPLE WHO WERE TRAPPED THAT WOULD
HAVE CERTAINLY TRIGGERED IT WAS JUST IT SEEMED LIKE THERE WERE TOO MANY RADIO TRANSMISSIONS AND LOT
OF DISJOINTED STUFF AND LOT OF UNANSWERED TRANSMISSIONS
THERE WAS KNOW THERE WERE RESCUE
OPERATIONS GOING ON AND LOT OF THE RESCUE OPERATION WERE TAKING OVER THE RADIOS BUT DONT REMEMBER
FREDDY LAFEMINA REMEMBER HEARING HIM THINK HE THEY MIGHT HAVE GOTTEN SOME GUYS OUT OF EITHER
THE HOTEL
FORGOT
KNOW THERE WAS FIRE INVOLVED AND THEY
WERENT ABLE TO GET THE FIRE OUT AND THERE WERE
COUPLE OF GUYS TRAPPED BUT THINK THEM OUT
THEN REMEMBER LOT OF PEOPLE SAW TURNOUT GEAR BUT THE
RESCUE OR RECOVERY AND MOST OF
THE RESPONSES WERE THAT IT WAS RECOVERY AND THEY WERE TOLD TO FOREGO THE RECOVERY UNTIL THE SITE HAD
THEY FINALLY GOT
TRANSMISSIONS WHERE WHETHER IT WAS
MOST WELL MOST OF

LUONGO
BEEN ECUTRED ARID THEN LIKE SAID WE WE LEFT THERE ABOUT MIDNIGHT SO FOR THE REST OF THE DAY WE INTERMITTENTLY WALKED LIKE SAID SEARCHED AROUND
WE DIDNT FIND TOO MANY BODY PARTS WHERE WE WERE MOST OF IT WAS DOWN BELOW WHERE WE WERE AND THE ENGINE STAYED THERE FOR ABOUT TWO OR THREE DAYS
JUST PUMPING
JUST PUMPING YEAH PEOPLE WE WOULD JUST GET COMPANY TO RELIEVE US AND WE LEFT AND WE WENT
DOWN FEW DAYS LATER AND COMANDEERED OUR OWN ENGINE
AND BROUGHT IT BACK AND THEY HAD GIVEN US SPARE RIG TO WORK WITH UP HERE BUT WE WENT DOWN AND GOT OUR OWN
RIG BACK AND WENT BACK INTO SERVICE COUPLE OF DAYS LATER
WE WERE IN SERVICE WITH THE SPARE FOR
WHILE BUT DONT RECALL ANY YOU KNOW ANYTHING OTHER THAN
THATS GOOD ITS KIND OF FUNNY MOST
PEOPLE DONT RECALL ANYTHING SPECIFIC THINK EVERYBODY WAS SO CONCENTRATED ON WHATEVER THEY WERE
DOING THEY REALLY WERENT THINKING ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE THAT SEEMS TO BE THE GENERAL THING
WELL KNOW WHEN YOU ARE ON THE JOB AND HEAR YOUR RADIO IS ON DEPENDING ON WHO YOU ARE AND

LUONGO
WHAT YOUR JOB IF YOU ARE BATTALION CHIEF YOURE
SOMETHING YOU MIGHT THEN IF ITS 84 ALPHA
RIGHT
OR 34 OV HES GOING TO BE TALKING TO HIS
OFFICER NOT THAT ITS INFORMATION YOU DONT WANT BUT
YOU CAN ONLY DO ONE THING AT TIME OR TWO THINGS AT TIME MOSTLY SO IF DIFFERENT UNITS WERE TALKING TO EACH
OTHER YOU DIDNT PAY ATTENTION TO IT BECAUSE IT WASNT
INVOLVING YOU
IF SOMEONE CALLED MAYDAY OR CALLED
SOMETHING OR LIKE SAID THE REASON REMEMBERED 39
ENGINE WAS THAT HE WAS SO PERSISTENT AND HE WASNT
GETTING ANY RESPONSE
THEY ALL MADE IT OUT
YEAH
WHICH WAS MIRACLE THEY WENT BACK LOOKING FOR GUY THAT WAS OUT ALREADY
REALLY
THEY WERE OUT OF THE BUILDING BECAUSE
INTERVIEWED ONE OF THE GUYS AND THEY COULDNT FIND THIS GUY WHO WAS OUT AND HE THOUGHT THAT THE OFFICER SAW HIM GET OUT AND THEY WENT BACK LOOKING FOR HIM
MORE IN TUNED TO LISTEN TO AN OFFICER IF 84
SAYS
BE MORE INCLINED TO LISTEN TO THAT

LUONGO
REALLY
ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANTED TO SAY
THEY WOULD HAVE GOTTEN THERE EARLY
YEAH
BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA THAT CONCLUDES THE
INTERVIEW ITS 150
File No. 9110467
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER GEORGE HOLZMAN
   Interview Date:  January 17, 2002
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
G. HOLZMAN
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today is January
     17, 2002.  The time is 1215 hours.  This is
     Battalion Chief Frank Congiusta of the Safety
     Battalion of the New York City Fire Department.
     I'm conducting an interview with the following
     individual.
     Q.   Please state your name.
     A.   Firefighter George Holzman.
     Q.   Of Ladder 47 of the New York City Fire
Department.  We are at the quarters of Ladder 47.  This
interview is regarding the events of September 11,
2001.  George, if you would please tell the story in
your own words.
     A.   We relocated a few minutes after 9 o'clock to
Ladder 6.  We headed downtown.  I was the chauffeur, so
I was very aware of the traffic situation and just
trying to get down there.  I think everybody else was
anticipating what had just happened.  We hit quite a
bit of traffic on the way down, especially near the
Triborough Bridge.  We finally got on the FDR.  We got
about, probably down to the low teens, when traffic
just about came to a halt.  We decided at that point to
get off the highway and filter our way through the side
streets.
2
G. HOLZMAN
          When we got off the highway, the two towers
were still standing, we realized that another plane had
hit at that point or something else had happened to the
other tower.  We proceeded towards 6 Truck.  Joe
Lowney, the Lieutenant, knew the area from when he was
a proby, so he was getting us through the
neighborhood.  We stopped to help a lady who wasn't
necessarily involved in the Trade Center collapse, but
just had some medical problems from I think all the
upset --
     Q.   Give me a second George, to make sure --
okay, go ahead.
     A.   We stopped the rig and everybody got off the
rig.  I moved to the officer's seat to monitor the
radio, trying to take down whatever information, which
was lots of information at that point, where the
command post was.  I think we all just naturally
assumed that we weren't going to be spending a lot of
time at 6 Truck, considering what had happened.
          At which point, the first collapse occurred,
or I assume that from all the Maydays and because we
were surrounded by buildings, we weren't aware that the
whole building had collapsed.  We all just assumed that
a piece had fallen.  There would be Maydays because of
3
G. HOLZMAN
that.  We probably were with the lady about 5 to 8
minutes.  I called the Bronx dispatcher, I asked him to
send us an ambulance, realizing that Manhattan really
had their hands full.
          Before I knew it the guys were getting back
on the rig.  Apparently the lady felt a little bit
better.  There was a clinic in the nearby area.  We
boarded the rig and headed towards 6 Truck.  We just
pulled up to 6 Truck.  We were trying to get in the
front door.  We received a run to somewhere in the area
of Fulton and Broadway.  I parked the rig by St. Pauls
Church.  We were confronted with quite a few injured
people, people that just were confused and dazed by the
whole set of events.  I think in a lot of ways, we were
as confused by the impact of this, not realizing that
the whole building had actually come down.  We just
assumed that a piece of the building had come down.
          We worked on those people.  We helped them in
whatever way we could.  The officer and the irons and
can team went into the building, searching for this
smoke condition.  Radioed out to me that tell the
dispatcher that 1020, the box, it most likely was just
smoke from the area.
          I started walking back towards the rig, the
4
G. HOLZMAN
OV and the roof guy were helping me take care of people
and I started walking towards the rig to tell the
Manhattan dispatcher what was going on.  When what we
thought was another plane had hit another building,
because we were on the side of the building that was
pretty smoky and debris, cloud.  The remainder was in
our face most of that time.  We assumed or we thought
that there was another explosion, another plane had
hit.  We didn't know what had happened.  To be quite
frank with you, I don't think we realized how close we
were to the Trade Center, geographically speaking.
          At which point we grabbed everybody we could
and headed probably about a block into Fulton where we
found an office building that we could get into.  We
took whoever we had with us in there.  We took all our
medical equipment.  I radioed the Lieutenant to stay in
the building.  That I don't know what had happened but
it had been catastrophic, to stay in the building until
we figured out what was going on.
          We stayed in communications all the while,
just letting everybody know we were okay and we were
still around.  We were in the building for probably two
or three minutes when we realized that there were
probably a lot more people outside.  So we donned our
5
G. HOLZMAN
masks and the three of us went out and we brought in
probably another 6 or 8 people, including a quite
pregnant Asian lady who I kept screaming at her,
please, whatever you do lady, don't have this baby.  I
think she actually believed me.  She realized that this
wasn't a good time to be having a baby.
          Anyway, we got everybody straightened out.  I
think there was one Firefighter we brought in, but you
know, it's a shame how you just have no notion of who
these guys were.  He had quite a bad laceration to his
hip.  He went through a pane of glass in a building,
one or two buildings up, and then for some reason
retreated from there and then we found him out in the
street, so we tended to him.  I guess all together, we
had about 15 people in there.  Within probably 10 or 15
minutes, when things started to clear, we decided as a
group to meet up with the officer and the irons team
and we asked this group of people that we had to take
the pregnant lady to, I think Downtown Beekman or
whatever hospital was there.
Q. Beekman.
     A.   Because we were about two blocks away or
somewhere in that area, so as a group they headed off,
because there were quite a few injured and what not.
6
G. HOLZMAN
So everybody kind of helped each other and they took
off.  We met the officer.  We headed towards the
buildings, the Trade Center.  We went down -- I believe
we said Barclay to Church with our first attempt to try
to do something, but it just didn't seem like there was
any potential to do anything there.  We looked up
towards West and we saw an engine and a truck on the
corner and we actually saw a Battalion Chief, so we
decided let's head over there and we will get some
direction and see what we could do.
          The Chief asked us to force our way into any
buildings we could.  They wanted to charge the stand
pipes or to have the ability to know where the stand
pipes were and eventually charge them.  We stayed in
that area doing that for a while as well as searching
under vehicles and whatever else we could do.  Whatever
you could do was what we did.  There was no master plan
at that point.
          We stayed there for quite sometime.  There
were a lot of vehicle fires, there was a lot of debris
that we were searching for people.  Mostly civilians we
thought at that point.  That was I think what was in
our heads, people that had fleed the building.  Well, I
will wait for that.  I mean we were looking for
7
G. HOLZMAN
civilians in our heads.
          We stayed there for quite sometime when I
don't even know who, I think it was someone, Lieutenant
Lowney spoke to, asked us to leave the area, they were
concerned about 7 World Trade Center collapsing.  At
that point we made our way back to actually where our
rig was, was right by St. Pauls Church.  We went to the
command post, told them we had a rig, which they seemed
to be happy to hear.  It seemed to be the routing point
for all the recall guys.
          So we stayed there for not too long a period
of time, but I want to say about an hour, somewhere in
that area.  Finally they told us to head over to the
command post on West Street or the West Side Highway, I
guess, where we went.  Probably within a half an hour
of getting to there, the 7 World Trade Center
collapsed, so it must have been late afternoon at that
point, 5 o'clock or somewhere in that neighborhood.
          We stayed there probably an hour.  We had
something to eat, we got our eyes cleaned out.  Guys
got cleaned up, got out of their bunker gear, washed
off, tried to clean their bunker gear as best as they
could.  I guess about an hour after that, we were sent
down to the command post, which was right by the
8
G. HOLZMAN
Customs building.  We stayed there probably half an
hour, 45 minutes I would think.  We were hoping to be
able to accomplish something, but they felt that we had
been there all day and they really wanted to get some
fresh troops in there.
          They sent us back to the command post, where
we probably spent another hour and then were finally
relieved.  We figured we would be going home and they
sent us back to 6 Truck.  We went back to 6 Truck.  We
stayed there for the tour.  We were relieved in the
morning and that's really it.
     Q.   Very good.  Anything else?
     A.   No, not really, other than it just being a
horrific day and an awful lot of peoples' lives.
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  I know, and
     thanks a lot for being candid with us.  We are
     trying to get something organized here.  Thank you
     very much.  This concludes the interview.
9
File No. 9110468
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        LIEUTENANT JOSEPH LOWNEY
   Interview Date:  January 17, 2002
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
J. LOWNEY
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today is January
17, 2002.  The time is 1155 hours and this is Battalion
Chief Frank Congiusta of the Safety Battalion of the
New York City Fire Department.  I'm conducting an
interview with the following individual:
          Please state your name.  Lieutenant Joseph
Lowney.
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Lieutenant Joseph
Lowney is assigned to Ladder 47 of the New York City
Fire Department.  We're at the quarters of Ladder 47.
This interview is regarding the events of September 11,
2001.
     Q.   If you would just in your words describe what
happened that day.
     A.   Well, we were relocated to Ladder 6.  En
route to Ladder 6 we were stopped by an unconscious
civilian in the street, and I don't recall the exact
street.  We stopped to aid the civilian.  We rendered
first aid to her, oxygen, and called for EMS.  Then we
were able to leave her and we headed towards Ladder 6's
quarters.
          Once we got to Ladder 6's quarters, we
received a ticket for a response for a building fire on
Fulton Street at Broadway.  I don't recall the
2
J. LOWNEY
address.  We responded to that building, arrived at
that building, and were met by many injured civilians
that were fleeing away from, I guess, the World Trade
Center at that time.  Some of the men were working on
the people, helping them, and the rest of the crew
started to examine the building for a fire.
          As we went through the building, there were
even more occupants in the building that were seeking
our help, and while we were searching that building for
the alleged fire, the -- I guess it was the second
building had collapsed at that point.  At that point
there was pretty much havoc in the streets.  Everything
went black and there were many people that needed
assistance and we kind of basically just were rendering
first aid to people.
          At that point we were unable to reach the
Manhattan dispatcher via radio, so what we did was we
broke into an office in the building that we were
searching and we used the land line.  We tried to call
the Manhattan dispatcher via the land line and we were
unable to reach them via phone as well.  So we called
the Bronx dispatcher and were able to contact them to
let them know that we were okay and what our status was
and what we were doing.
3
J. LOWNEY
          At that point then, we continued to assist
people, rendering first aid and assistance.  They were
looking for direction by us.  At that point then, we
worked towards the site of the collapse.
          As we got on the other side of Broadway, I'm
not sure of the streets down there.  Do you remember?
          A VOICE:   (Inaudible.)
     Q.    Hold on one second.
     A.   Okay.  So when we got on the other side of
Broadway, we worked our way down Barclay Street.  As we
got to West Street, we were met by an Engine Company
stretching a line down West Street, and we were asked
by some Chiefs to force entry into some buildings there
so that they could use standpipes.  We worked on that
for a while and assisted in stretching lines down West
Street, and I'm not sure of what the Engine Company was
even at that point.
          There was a tower ladder that was parked in
the street, I think on Barclay Street and West, but
there was nobody on it, and we used that for radio
communications.  Actually, at that point we heard the
dispatcher calling on the radio for any unit that was
operating that was relocated.  So I contacted the
Manhattan dispatcher and told them that we were
4
J. LOWNEY
operating at that point.
          From that point on, we were kind of ordered
out of the collapse area because they were concerned
about another building collapsing.  I wasn't exactly
sure at that time which one it was.
          We worked our way back towards the command
post that was situated at Broadway and around Fulton,
and from there, we had a rig, and we had to wait quite
a while, but eventually the Chief had sent us down to
the West Side Highway and Chambers Street, to the other
command post, and at that point they just made us stand
fast until, I guess, roughly around what?
          A VOICE:  7:00 o'clock, I guess?
     A.   Yes, around 7:00 o'clock.  At that point they
had let us go down towards the site, and when we got to
the collapse area, another Chief ordered us back out
because we had been there all day and they didn't want
our services at that point.  So they told us to head
back towards the command post by Chambers.
          At that point, that was late in the evening,
I guess about 8:00 or 9:00 o'clock.  Then they had
released up from there and the Manhattan dispatcher had
sent us back to the quarters of Ladder 6.
Q. Okay.
5
J. LOWNEY
     A.   That's about it.
     Q.   Is there anything else?
     A.   Well, while we were back at Chambers Street,
we were triaged, I guess, from EMS.  We had received
some medical care.  We were getting our eyes washed
out.  I think that's about it.
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Okay.  All
right.  Thank you.  That concludes the interview.
Thank you.
6
File No. 9110469
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         FIREFIGHTER KEVIN HOWE
   Interview Date:  January 17, 2002
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
K. HOWE
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today's date is
     January 17, 2002.  The time is 15 hundred hours.
     This is Battalion Chief Frank Congiusta of the
     Safety Battalion of the New York City Fire
     Department.  I'm conducting an interview with the
     following individual.
     Q.   Please state your name.
     A.   Kevin Howe.
     Q.   Kevin Howe is a fireman in Engine 84 of the
New York City Fire Department.  We are at the quarters
of Engine 84.  This interview is regarding events of
September 11, 2001.  Kevin, in your own words, if you
would say what happened on that day.
     A.   Okay.  I'm going to start in the fire house.
Approximately 8:50 I heard a second alarm announcement
in the Borough of Manhattan, 1 World Trade Center and
the voice -- the men put on the TV at that time.  We
were watching and watching it and a short while later
as we were watching it, we see the second plane hit the
building and we knew it was terrorism, and now it
wasn't just a small plane that hit.  That's what
everybody thought initially.
          When that happened, my wife called on the
phone.  She's, you know, worried, don't get killed.
2
K. HOWE
You make 60 thousand a year.  With that I was on the
phone and we got the bee-boops.  I just said I got to
go.  What it was we relocated to 16 Engine on 29 Street
on the east side.  So when I got out to the rig, I was
the back up chauffeur or so I thought that day.  I went
out to the rig and Mike Oates was getting ready to
drive.  He had just completed chauffeur training school
and I remember it had a real meaning then, because I
had already been told I was driving and I put my stuff
on the rig like I'm a chauffeur.  Now the chauffeurship
had a real meaning this time, you know, you're gonna do
the work.
          But anyway, in the confusion, I left behind
my bunker coat and I put my stuff on the rig, or so I
thought.  Mike Oates was the new chauffeur.  He took us
down to 29 Street.  We backed into quarters and you
know, I was just thinking I got to get a coat, I got to
get a coat.  I pulled off, what turned out to be
Princiotta's coat from 7 Truck, is it.
Q. 7 Truck.
     A.   I took his coat and we went down and we
watched it on what seemed like a couple of minutes in
their kitchen.  Then we got the bee boops to go to the
Trade Center.  From there I remember it taking a
3
K. HOWE
while.  It seemed like a long time to get across town.
We got across town, went down the west side, West
Street, and I was in the back of the rig sitting
backwards and I don't recall knowing if the building
had collapsed.
          I got there.  We pulled up several blocks
away on West Street and I got out of the rig and there
was dust everywhere and we went and did what we had to
do.  We had to get our rollups and bring an extra air
tank.  Myself and 84 Engine started making our way
towards tower number 1, which we had a pretty clear
view.  I'm not sure how close we got to it.  As we were
walking up closer, there were a lot of civilians going
the other way and we were walking up and my thoughts
were how the hell -- how am I going to make this
climb.  This is at least 70 stories, no way.  I'm
thinking no way.  I know there is a way.  10 floors at
a time, you take a break.  With all the equipment and
rollups, that was my chief concern at that point, like
how the hell am I getting up there.
          As we got a little closer, I remember seeing
how much fire there was and there seemed to be like 8
floors of fire and I thought there can't be any stand
pipes system.  As I am having these thoughts as and I'm
4
K. HOWE
walking up, and we are getting close enough where I'm
actually seeing -- I saw two images jump from the
building, you know, 2 people, civilians and I'm
thinking to myself this is fucking horrible, this is
the end here, you know.
          With that, I was able to -- I'm hearing like
a rumble and I'm looking up and I'm seeing the antenna
start to do this type of nonsense, swaying a little bit
it seemed, and sure enough the building was coming
down.  That was tower number 1, the north tower.  As it
started coming down, we saw this ferocious amount of
black cloud, a brown cloud that was chasing everybody.
It was chasing us also.  I remember I just dropped my
equipment.  I don't know what I did with my mask, which
probably turned out to be foolish.  I was just trying
to lighten up and get out of the way.  We ran.  I ran
along with everybody else.  Our entire company.
Getting out of the way of that building, because at
that point, you don't know what's the collapse zone --
you don't know if it's doing a straight down number or
if it's going to cantilever and topple.  You really
didn't know what the collapse zone was and you were
basically running for your life.
          I remember getting -- running like a couple
5
K. HOWE
of blocks and trying to find the Engine, regrouping and
try to regroup and see what our plan of attack is now.
We are all shot.  It's still -- it's very fuzzy.  I met
up with the rest of the company and I remember we took
the rig.  We got on the rig.  Did we get on the rig?
We went around -- we did, we went around to the west.
I don't what the last street is.
     Q.   Towards the water?
     A.   Towards the Hudson River.  Drove down towards
Vesey Street and we are taking a look and we made a
left on Vesey.  At that time there was a lot of fire
going on.  I think it was the Customs House was
roaring.  The 7 World Trade Center was roaring.  All we
could think is we were an Engine Company, we have got
to get them some water.  We need some water you know.
          With that, we positioned the rig, I don't
know, 3 quarters of a block away maybe.  A fire boat
was going to relay water to us.  I don't know if I have
things in the right order, whatever, if we were getting
water out of a hydrant first.  Jesus Christ --
     Q.   Captain said you were getting water.  You
were draining a vacuum?
     A.   It was draining away from us.  Right.  We had
to be augmented.  I think that's when the fire boat
6
K. HOWE
came.  I think the fire boats supplied us.  Of course
you don't see that.  You just see the (inaudible) way
and you know, we are hooking up and we wound up
supplying the Tower Ladder there.  I just remember
feeling like helpless, like everybody there was doomed
and there is -- I just felt like there was absolutely
nothing we could do.  I want to just go back a little
bit.
          When we had first entered down Vesey Street,
I heard a command post or a Division looking for 6
Truck and this came to my attention because that was my
former company.  I was with 6 Truck and 9 Engine up
until March last year when I transferred in.  I was
very worried about those guys in 6 Truck, yet I didn't
want to abandon my men with the Engine, because we were
doing our job.  We were supplying the Tower Ladder and
we were doing our own thing.
          I don't know what else.  Do you want me to
keep going what we did that day?
     Q.   Pretty much -- after the collapse, that's
pretty much.  You know, like after you were relaying
water, that's enough.
     A.   It was just -- I remember a couple of guys
coming from on the roof.  This guy Russell and myself
7
K. HOWE
went out looking.  We were searching for anybody or
anything we could find.  It was just mayhem and it was
just a feeling of helplessness.  If there was anybody,
they were underneath big beams and girders and there
was nothing humanly possible.  I got to say, shortly
after I heard them looking for 6 Truck, my radio died,
my control man radio.  That died and I wasn't getting
any more transmissions.  Guys were saying that they had
to turn their radios off or whatever, because they were
hearing people that were missing or lost or you know,
or hurt.  I guess it's kind of a blessing I didn't have
 -- my radio wasn't working and I wasn't aware that it
wasn't working right away because we were all
together.
          So I'm trying to think of anything else, if I
left anything out.  I finally called my wife at 1:30
and she was happy to hear from me.  I called from the
bar across the street.
     Q.   The Mexican place?
     A.   I don't know, was it a Mexican place?
     Q.   I called from the Mexican place.
     A.   It looked like it was a nice bar you know,
before it got taken over.  I don't know.  I'm trying to
figure anything else I can remember.  I remember them
8
K. HOWE
bringing -- they had an ambulance on Vesey and I
believe it was Chief Ganci's body that they put in the
ambulance.  That was the first casualty that I saw.
          It was just a very depressing day.  It was a
feeling of hopelessness and helplessness.
     Q.   I think we all kind of felt that.
     A.   You know, I don't know.  Initially when you
were there, you thought -- I said to myself there is no
way anybody survived that, there is just no way.
     Q.   By some miracle 6 Truck and 39 Engine --
     A.   That was an incredible miracle.  I saw the
guys later on.  I gave them hugs and everything.  I was
like, I couldn't believe it, you know.  I don't know if
it was the 6 -- guys that were stuck or the 6 recall
guys, you know what I mean, but I was real happy to see
them.  I can't think of anything else that --
     Q.   That's good.  That's good.  That's all
right.
     A.   Yes, I guess so.
     Q.   Okay.  That's fine.
     A.   If you need anything else.  I do remember us
being pulled off the pile.  We were down by the pile to
search or looking around.
     Q.   Searches, searches?
9
K. HOWE
     A.   Right.  Searching for people or whatever.  I
remember being pulled off the pile like just before.
It wasn't just before.  It was probably an hour before
7 came down.
     Q.   It was about an hour before.  Maybe an hour
and a half.
     A.   I remember when 7 World Trade came down and
everybody was like shell shocked.  I mean this was a 47
story building.  We all ran.  We were like oh, my god,
here we go again.  It just gave us the creeps.  But
-- I don't know.  After that -- and I really don't
know what else.
          Hopeless and helpless.  Those are the catch
words of that day.
     Q.   Yes, I think everybody.
     A.   You got to be getting tired of these
interviews right?
     Q.   Well, you know what it is.  It's somewhat
interesting.  Everybody saw a little something
different, so to me it's interesting.
     A.   I know there is stuff I'm leaving out.  Not
consciously, but I just know things that we were doing
and you know.  Yes, I just remember that dust.  It was
(inaudible) masks.  I was like, you know, I had to
10
K. HOWE
ditch my mask trying to lighten up along the way.
Meanwhile I should have been wearing it, you know what
I mean.
     Q.   It was still a good idea to get away from
that.
     A.   This is true.  I was thankful, very happy to
get home the following morning, you know.  Thanks a
lot.
     Q.   I appreciate it.  Thank you very much.
     A.   Let's get some coffee, coffee break.
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  This concludes
     this interview.  It's 1515.
11

FILE NO 9110470
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT JOHN HEER
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 18 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

HEER
MR DUN TODAY JARIUTARY 18 2002 THE TIME NOW IS OCLOCK MY NAME IS RICHARD DUN
IM WORKING FOR THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE
DEPARTMENT IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME
JOHN HEER IM AN EMT BATTALION 22 STATEN
ISLAND
OKAY ON SEPTEMBER 11 CAN YOU JUST IN YOUR OWN WORDS DESCRIBE WHAT HAPPENED ON THAT DAY
FROM AROUND WE LEFT THE STATION AROUND 840 AROUND 845 WE STARTED GETTING CALLS STARTED
HEADING OVER TOWARDS THE VERRAZANO BRIDGE FOR STAGING THEY WOULDNT SEND THE JOB OVER SO WE STARTED HEADING DOWN THERE WONDERING WHAT IT WAS
BEFORE WE GOT TO THE VERRAZANO BRIDGE THEY SAID TO SET UP THE STAGING ON THE BROOKLYN SIDE OF THE
VERRAZANO BRIDGE BEFORE WE GOT OVER TO THE BROOKLYN
SIDE OF THE BRIDGE THEY SAID THEY CHANGED STAGING ALSO TO THE OPENING AT THE BATTERY TUNNEL AT THIS TIME
GOT CELLPHONE CALL FROM MY WIFE TELLING ME PLANE HIT THE TOWERS
SO STARTED TRYING TO FIX THE PD RADIO SO WE COULD LISTEN TO PD SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON OVER

HEER
THERE BECAU TOLD THEM WE WERE GOING IN ARID WE KNEW WE WERE GONNA BE IN THE BATTERY TUNNEL AT THAT TIME ME
AND MY PARTNER JOHN ROTHMAN BY THE TIME WE GOT TO
WE WERE JUST ABOUT TO HEAD INTO THE TUNNEL SAW THE
SMOKE COMING OUT OF THE ONE TOWER WAS LOOKING DOWN PLAYING WITH THE RADIO LOOKED UP AND SAW ANOTHER
EXPLOSION COME OUT OF THE SECOND TOWER DIDNT ACTUALLY SEE THE SECOND PLANE HIT THATS WHEN WE WENT
DOWN INTO THE TUNNEL
WE CAME OUT THE OTHER SIDE WE WERE ON
WHATS THAT WEST STREET AND WE WERE DIRECTED TO MAKE
RIGHT WE PUSHED RIGHT UP INTO STAGING UP ON WEST AND LIBERTY WHERE YOU ACTUALLY FELT THE HEAT FROM THE
BUILDING THERE WAS BUNCH OF CRUSHED CARS BUNCHES OF JUST OTHER STUFF LAYING AROUND ON THE STREET COPS
DIRECTING PEOPLE IN AND AROUND WE STOOD THERE FOR
LITTLE WHILE SO COULD GRAB WAS LIKE THE FIRST
WAS THERE LOT OF
THAT TIME
YES WE SHOULD NOT
WE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THERE BUT THERE WAS SOME
LIEUTENANT CAPTAIN WHOEVER WAS THERE TELLING EVERYBODY TO HANG OUT THATS WHERE WE ARE SETTING UP
SOME EQUIPMENT STAND OUT
DEBRIS FALLING STILL AT
HAVE BEEN THERE WE KNEW

HEER
TAGIRIG LINE UP THE URIIT FINE WE STOOD THERE THAT WAS LIKE ONE TIME GRABBED THE HELMET AND
STUCK IT ON THERE WAS STUFF YOU HEARD IT DONT KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER AS KID YOU USED TO MELT
ARMY SOLDIERS AND THEY GO SSST POP YOU HEAR THAT SOUND THATS WHAT WAS COMING OFF THE BUILDING
SO AFTER DONT KNOW 10 15 MINUTES
DONT REMEMBER THE TIME SOMEBODY SAID TO US YOU KNOW WE REALLY SHOULD NOT BE HERE YOU KNOW THIS IS
ACTUALLY BAD THERE IS STUFF FALLING ALL OVER THE WAS THAT AN OFFICER
THIS IS LIEUTENANT LIEUTENANT OR CAPTAIN
IT WAS AN EMS FIRE DEPARTMENT OFFICER YES BUT HE WAS
ACTUALLY
EMS HE SAID WE SHOULD HE WAS IN
LITTLE BIT OF PANIC WHICH IS UNDERSTANDABLE SO WE
MOVED DOWN AROUND BY SOUTH END WE MOVED UP LIBERTY STREET TO SOUTH END JUST WENT AROUND THE CORNER AND
PARKED THE BUS THERE THIS TIME WE OPENED UP THE BUS WE FIGURED LETS GET THE STRETCHERS SET UP AND BASICALLY THROW ALL WE COULD ON THE STRETCHER LONG BOARD PULLED THE STRETCHER OUT AND LEFT IT THERE
THERE WAS LIQUOR STORE OVER THERE THE GUY SAYS ANYTHING YOU GUYS NEED COME INSIDE USE THE
PHONE THE BATHROOM WHILE THIS IS ALL GOING ON
DEFINITELY

HEER
TLIOUTGLIT ARID THE GUY IN THE DELI NEXT DOOR TO HIM
SAYS LOOK CAN CLOSE YET WANT TO GO HOME WAS LIKE WELL DO WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO DONT CARE
SO THIS TIME WE STARTED WATCHING PEOPLE JUMPING OUT OF THE BUILDING MY PARTNER COUNTED ABOUT 20 SAW MAYBE LIKE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT STILL THE SAME THING WATCHING STUFF HIT THE GROUND TRYING TO
LISTEN TO THE RADIO
ANOTHER UNIT PULLED UP SOME GUY PULLED UP
TO US HE HAD CUT ON HIS HEAD SO PRIVATE UNIT
GAVE HIM TO US SAYS HERE WERE GONNA TRANSFER HIM TO YOU OR HE CAN SIT IN MY BUS AND DO NOTHING IF YOU WANT TO IM NOT GOING ANYWHERE RIGHT NOW FOR WHILE HATZOLAH WAS PULLED IN FRONT OF US THEY HAD LADY HAVING AN ANXIETY ATTACK SO WE TOOK OUR GUY WITH THE SCRATCH ON HIS HEAD AND TOLD THEM TO TAKE HIM TOO
BECAUSE OUR PLAN INITIALLY WAS LETS GO IN AND GRAB SOME PATIENTS AND GET OUT OF THERE BECAUSE THIS IS
GOING TO BE NUTS SO WOUND UP DOING THE RIGHT THING FOR SOME STRANGE REASON THATS GUESS WHEN WE JUST STARTED HEARING THE TOWER COME DOWN
DID YOU SEE ANY EMS OFFICERS THAT YOU
RECOGNIZED AT THE SCENE
NO THERE WAS NOBODY THERE RECOGNIZED

HEER
WIIAT WE WERE AROUTRID BUTRICLI OF SAID
THERE WAS
PRIVATES KNEW AT
THE TOWER WAS STILL UP THOUGH
THE TOWER WAS STILL UP YOU COULD SEE WHEN WE WERE AROUND THE CORNER YOU COULD SEE THE TOP OF THE
SOUTH TOWER YOU COULD SEE THE TOP IT JUST STARTS YOU HEAR THE CRUMBLING LIKE AN ENGINE ROAR AND
SOMETHING STARTED COMING DOWN LIKE THAT AND PEOPLE JUST STARTED SCATTERING UP THE CORNER PEOPLE JUST STARTED
COMING UP TO US PANICKING AND STUFF SO WE PUT THEM
IN WE DIDNT START PUTTING PEOPLE INTO THE LIQUOR STORE WHERE THE GUY WANTED US WE STARTED PUTTING EVERYBODY INTO THE DELI WHERE THE GUY DIDNT WANT US HE WANTED TO CLOSE UP BUT HE WAS REALLY NICE ONCE WE ALL GOT INSIDE SO WE STARTED PUSHING PEOPLE IN THERE GRABBING ANYBODY BECAUSE THE CLOUD STARTED COMING STANDING BY THE DOOR THIS TIME DROPPED MY RADIO
WAS THERE GOOD COMMUNICATION ON THE RADIO
IT WAS ANARCHY ON THE RADIO IM SORRY WE
HATZOLAH WAS THERE THERE WAS SOME OTHER THERE WERE FEW EMS OFFICERS NOBODY
CAME OVER TO US
BODY PART THAT WAS THAT WAS BEFORE THE
ONE POINT FIREFIGHTER ASKED US FOR SHEET TO COVER UP
ON THE STREET IM SURE HE HAD
TOWER CAME DOWN SO AND THATS BAD

HEER
STARTED HEARING TUTFF THE FIRST TIME EVER REALLY HEARD SOMEBODY SCREAMING MAYDAY WHICH WAS FOR REAL
EVERYBODY STARTED SCREAMING MAYDAY MAYDAY OVER AND OVER AGAIN JUST WAS TRYING TO HOLD THE RADIO WHILE
WE WERE RUNNING OVER THE BUILDING PUTTING PEOPLE IN YOU COULDNT HEAR ANYTHING BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE
SCREAMING AT US SO WE ARE PUSHING THEM IN THE DELI DROPPED THE RADIO RAN IN YOU KNOW ITS TABOO TO
LOSE RADIO
SO ANYWAY RAN BACK OUTSIDE TO GET THE RADIO
WHILE MY PARTNER STARTS SCREAMING AT ME FORGET THAT WENT BACK INSIDE THINK THE DELI GUY WAS PRETTY MUCH
ANYTHING YOU GUYS WANT WE ARE TRYING TO PUSH PEOPLE
IN THE BACK THROUGH THE DOOR ALL THIS TIME ALL YOU
CAN SEE OUT OF THE WINDOW IT WAS JUST BLACK EVERYTHING WAS PITCH BLACK SO WE STARTED WE ARE
GOING TO GET TRAPPED IN HERE WE ARE NOT GETTING OUT WE DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON PUSHED PEOPLE TO THE
BACK OF THE STORE MY PARTNER STARTED SAYING LIKE THERE IS NO WAY OUT OF HERE JUST LIKE STARTED TELLING HIM THERE IS ALWAYS WAY OF OUT OF THESE PLACES THEY HAVE TO HAVE BY LAW SOME BACK ENTRANCE
THATS WHEN WE GOT EVERYBODY SETTLED TO THE BACK WHERE THE COLD CUT RACKS WAS AND STUFF LIKE THAT

HEER
IT TI11 WA COIRTPLETELY BLACK ARID OUE LADY CAME CUIT FROM THE BACK DOOR AND SAID THERE IS HOTEL OUT BACK AND THERE ARE PEOPLE TRAPPED UP THERE ME AND JOHN ROTHMAN WERE THE ONLY ONES IN UNIFORM THAT LOOKED LIKE ANYBODY EVERYBODY ELSE WAS CIVILIANS SO EVERYONE IS COMING UP TO US AND AT THIS POINT WE THOUGHT WE WERE DEAD WE WERENT GETTING OUT OF THERE HAVE KIDS SO WASNT GOING TO SIT AND DIE SITTING IN THE DELI
WENT IN TO THE OTHER BUILDING WENT IN THROUGH SOME BACK DOOR AND WAS WENT UP SOME STAIRS AND STARTED SCREAMING AT THE YOU KNOW SEE IF THERES PEOPLE STARTED HEARING SOME LITTLE VOICES IN THE BACKGROUND AND STUFF SO WAS WITH JOHN AND ONCE AGAIN HE STARTED SCREAMING YOU OPENING THOSE FREAKING DOORS YOU DONT KNOW WHATS IN THERE FEEL THE HANDLE THATS KINDA SOMETHING YOU LEARN ON TV
IT WAS FAMILY FEW FAMILIES ALL
CORNER ON LIKE ON THE SECOND STORY THEY
THIS WAY WE GOT DELI DOWN HERE YOU CAN GET WATER WHATEVER YOU NEED WE ARE ALL GOING TO HANG OUT DOWN
THERE AND SEE WHATS GOING ON SO PULLED THEM DOWN GUESS THERE WAS BECAUSE GUESS DONT KNOW
SO CUDDLED IN
SAID IT WAS
WERE LYING THERE WAS LIKE YOU KNOW COME ON DOWN
HOTEL HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT WAS THEY

HEER
BETWEEN OR 12 OF THEM REALLY DONT REMEMBER THATS WHEN FOUND HACK DOOR THAT
THINKING THERE IS WAY OUT SO PULL THE DOOR OPEN BECAUSE INAUDIBLE AND SEE IT WAS JUST THE CLOUD CAME
BACK IN SO SLAMMED THAT DOOR SHUT
BY THIS TIME OUT FRONT IT STARTED CLEARING
LITTLE BIT SO WE REALIZED WE WERE NOT BLOCKED AND WE CAN ACTUALLY GET OUT IT WAS SO SOME LIEUTENANT
OR SOMEBODY DONT KNOW WHO IT WAS DONT REMEMBER KNEW IT WAS AN OFFICER SAID WE WAS GOING TO START PUTTING PEOPLE DOWN IN THE BASEMENT IM LIKE
EMS
FDNY THINK SO WERE GONNA START PUTTING
PEOPLE IN THE BASEMENT SAID EVERYBODY GET OFF THE FLOOR WE ARE GOING TO THE BASEMENT FOR SAFETY BECAUSE
WE DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON WE DIDNT KNOW IF ANOTHER PLANE WAS GOING TO HIT IF BOMB WAS GOING
OFF SOME PEOPLE GO DOWN OTHER PEOPLE ARE LIKE LOOK IM NOT GOING TO THE BASEMENT SAID LOOK DONT CARE IF YOU DONT REALLY WANT TO GO IN THERE IM NOT GONNA TIE YOU DOWN AND PULL YOU DOWN THERE HAVE ENOUGH STUFF TO DO HERE
WENT OUTSIDE IT WAS LIKE THAT SNOW
UP

HEER
STORM IT WA LIKE MUFFLED IT WA MUFFLED KIND OF LIKE WHEN THE SNOW IS REALLY HEAVY AND YOU ARE JUST
SEEING SHAPES MOVING OUT THERE HEARING SCOTT PACKS
THIS IS WHERE SPLIT UP WITH MY PARTNER JOHN ROTHMAN
FOR WHILE
ACTUALLY BEFORE SPLIT SORRY IM JUMPING THE STORY HERE LITTLE BIT HE GAVE ME POTHOLDER
WITH CITRUS SELTZER WATER ON IT BECAUSE THATS ALL
THAT WAS IN THE DELI HOLD THIS OVER YOUR FACE SO WE COULD BREATHE
WENT OUTSIDE JOHN ROTHMAN SAYS HEY
FOUND CHIEF GRANT SO IT WAS LIKE ALL RIGHT WHERE IS
HE HE SAYS WALKING AROUND HES LITTLE ANS RIGHT NOW HE IS OVER IN THE OTHER DELI THERE WAS ANOTHER
DELI DOWN THE STREET LITTLE BIT HERE GRABBED THE PACK AND WENT DOWN AND HOOKED HIM UP TO SOME
SO IM SAYING TO CHIEF GRANT REALLY DONT KNOW HIM BECAUSE JUST TRANSFERRED OUT OF HERE HE SAYS YOU
KNOW ARE YOU ALL RIGHT HE IS LIKE JUST STARING WITH GLAZED LOOK IN HIS EYES WHICH IS UNDERSTANDABLE
ONCE AGAIN MY PARTNER JOHN ROTHMAN TAKES OFF OUT OF THIS STORE TO LOOK AROUND FOR SOMETHING CHIEF GRANT TAKES THE NON REBREATHER AND UNHOOKS IT FROM THE TANK JUST WALKS OUT WITH
10

HEER
NON REBREATLIER ON LII FACE HE EA LIKE ALL RIGHT LIE
IS ALL RIGHT HE IS GOING TO WALK AROUND LITTLE BIT FINE GO WALK AROUND PACKED UP MY STUFF
STARTED TO FIND JOHN SAID LETS GET THE UNIT AND GET OUT OF HERE YOU KNOW IT WAS MOVING DOWN THE STREET DONT KNOW HOW FAR WE CAN GO YOU CANT SEE ANYTHING DOWN HERE DONT WANT TO START RUNNING OVER PEOPLE
SO THE TRUCK IS OBVIOUSLY COVERED WITH ALL KINDS OF CRAP AND THE STRETCHER AND EVERYTHING WAS
OUT TOLD HIM LETS THROW THE STRETCHER
DONT KNOW IF WELL NEED IT WE THREW THE STRETCHER BACK IN THE BUS CLOSED THE DOORS UP THIS TIME THE LIEUTENANT THINK HE SAID LIEUTENANT DONT KNOW HIS NAME THIS IS THE SAME GUY BEFORE THAT TOLD US
WE TOLD HIM WE WERE GOING TO MOVE AROUND WE TELL HIM WE ARE HEADING DOWN HERE SO YOU KNOW WE TOLD HIM GET IN THE BUS WE ARE GOING TO DRIVE DOWN THE STREET
WE WINDED UP GETTING IN THE BUS
IS THIS STILL BEFORE THE SECOND COLLAPSE
THIS IS BEFORE THE SECOND COLLAPSE WE DROVE UP TO ALBANY STREET WHICH IS THE NEXT STREET MADE
RIGHT WENT HEADING DOWN TOWARDS THE WATER WHERE THERE
IN YOU
11

HEER
LIKE LITTLE CIRCLE STATUTE OR OUETIIIRIG THERE WE HUNG OUT THERE WE GOT OUT THIS TIME SOME GUY CAME UP
TO US HIS RADIUS ULNA WAS BROKE WE SPLINTED IT UP LETS GET OUT OF HERE BUT WE DID THE FASTEST SPLINT
JOB POSSIBLE AND SAID LOOK DONT MOVE YOUR ARM TOO MUCH HE WAS SECURITY GUARD OR SOMETHING WE WASNT
UNIFORM STATUS THERE WAS SOME KIND OF UNIFORM HE HAD ON SO SAID DONT MOVE TOO MUCH LETS GET OUT
OF HERE
BY THIS TIME JUMPING AHEAD LITTLE BIT WE WENT DOWN LEFT THE BUS THERE TURNED IT OFF WENT DOWN TO THE WATER MADE LEFT STARTED HEADING DOWN TOWARDS BATTERY PARK THATS WHERE EVERYBODY WAS
GOING BECAUSE THE CLOUD WAS ALL COMING UP FROM THIS WAY WE ARE STILL KIND OF GETTING SOME AIR SO YOU
COULD BREATHE BECAUSE YOU COULDNT BREATHE WE GOT DOWN TO CERTAIN POINT THERE WERE BOATS PULLING UP
ACTUALLY BEFORE THE BOATS PULLED UP SORRY THERE WAS CHINESE RESTAURANT OR SOMETHING THERE AND
SOMEBODY OPENED THE DOOR AND THERE WAS ABOUT WALL THERE THAT WAS DONT KNOW HOW YOU ARE
FOOT
SUPPOSED TO GET INTO THIS RESTAURANT BECAUSE THATS THE WAY WE CLIMBED OVER THE WALL AND WE STARTED LOOKING OVER AND THERE WERE SOME FIREFIGHTERS STARTED PULLING
12

HEER
THEM UP BECAU THEY WERE DOWN BY FAUI1IE
LITTLE KIDS AND STUFF LIKE THAT LITTLE KIDS STARTED
ASKING ME YOU KNOW WHY IS THIS HAPPENING WAS LIKE DONT KNOW DONT KNOW WHAT TO TELL YOU YOU BE
WITH YOUR FAMILY IT WASNT EVEN HER FAMILY IT WAS
SOME GUY WAS JUST PEOPLE WERE HELPING HER OUT
PULLED THEM ALL INTO THIS RESTAURANT THATS
WHEN SOME BOATS STARTED PULLING UP ALONG DONT KNOW WHAT PIER THAT IS OVER THERE HAVE NO
GLEN COVE
NO WE WERE DOWN HERE ALL THE WAY TOWARDS
THIS PLAZA THEN THERE IS SOMETHING UP HERE OVER HERE
THE WATERWAY PIERS
OH OKAY THERE WERE WOOD RAFTERS BOATS
PULLED UP THERE AND THEY HACKED OPEN THE GATES WITH AXES SO WE STARTED LOADING MORE PEOPLE TOLD THEM JUST GET ON BOAT AND GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE WE DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON HERE WE ARE GOING DO GET HIT AGAIN
BEFORE WE EVEN GOT INTO THE CHINESE
RESTAURANT THATS WHEN THE SECOND TOWER STARTED COMING
DOWN THATS WHY SAY MY STORY JUMPS AROUND LITTLE BIT
13

HEER
BUTT THE ECORID TOWER WHICH LI ACTUALLY THE FIRST TOWER TOWER ONE CAME DOWN WE JUST HEARD
RUMBLE AND THE SMOKE STARTED COMING AROUND AND PEOPLE STARTED RUNNING WAS LIKE WONDER WHAT THEY ARE RUNNING FOR CANT EVEN SEE ANYTHING ANY MORE AND SO THEY TOOK OFF SLOWED DOWN BY OLD LADIES AND STUFF YOU FEEL BAD YOU ARE RACING AND RUNNING PAST LIKE 70 YEAR OLD LADIES WALKING WITH CANES SAID YOU CANT DO THAT AS SAID WE DIDNT THINK WE WERE MAKING IT OUT ANYWAY SO WE JUST ENDED UP DOING THE RIGHT THING
STARTED LOADING PEOPLE ON TO THE BOATS WE HAD ANOTHER OFFICER WITH BROKEN TIB FIB FRACTURE OR
SOMETHING SHE WAS SPLINTED UP WITH CARDBOARD OR
SOMETHING
LIKE THAT WE CARRIED HER OVER TO THE BOAT
WITH DONT KNOW IF IT WAS HATZOLAH OR SOME OTHER
PRIVATE UNITS THEY ARE LIKE ARE YOU GETTING ON THE
BOAT WITH HER IM LIKE NO BUT IF YOU GUYS WANT TO
GO GO AHEAD SO THE PRIVATES HOPPED ON WITH HER AND
THEY GOT OUT OF THERE BECAUSE DIDNT EVEN KNOW
WHERE MY PARTNER WAS AGAIN HE WAS NOT THERE AGAIN
BY THIS TIME ANOTHER 15 OR SO MINUTES MY
CELLPHONE STARTED WORKING AGAIN FOR SPLIT SECOND YOU KNOW YOU HEARD THAT HAPPEN CALLED MY WIFE SHE WAS LIKE IS EVERYTHING ALL RIGHT YES SO SHE DECIDED
14

HEER
WA THE TIME
WE STARTED PACKING UP SOME DONT REMEMBER WHAT CAPTAIN IT WAS HIS FACE IS FAMILIAR
IM REALLY BAD WITH NAMES AND HE WAS AROUND ON GOLF CART OVER THERE HE SAID LOOK WERE BUGGING OUT OF HERE WE ARE MOVING OUT WE ARE HEADING DOWN TO THE BATTERY TUNNEL IM SORRY NOT BATTERY TUNNEL BATTERY PARK THEY ARE SETTING UP STAGING OVER THERE IM
LIKE COOL SO SAID YO JOHN THERES NOTHING FOR US TO DO OVER HERE YOU CANT SEE ANYTHING THERE IS NOTHING GOING BACK UP THERE BECAUSE YOU COULDNT SEE ANYTHING
SO WERE GONNA START HEADING BACK DOWN
THERE WE ARE LIKE ALL RIGHT WE WILL DO THAT
LETS GO AROUND AND SEE IF WE CAN GET THE UNIT WE GO BACK AROUND UP WE WALKED BACK UP TO GET THE UNIT BECAUSE WE WERE USELESS JUST WALKING AROUND WHEN ALL OUR EQUIPMENT AND EVERYTHING IS UP THERE THIS TIME
ALL OUR WINDOWS WERE BUSTED OUT ALL OUR EQUIPMENT WAS GONE ALL OF OUR PERSONAL SHIT WAS GONE EXCEPT FOR ACTUALLY THIS MUG BECAUSE HAD TO SAVE MY SCI FI
COFFEE MUG SO IM WALKING AROUND WITH THIS COFFEE
15

HEER
IULLG
WE GET DOWN TO BATTERY TUNNEL START WALKING DOWN THERE AND DE FIB HAD THIS MUG AND
THE DE FIB WE CAME TO CLEARING AND THERE WAS
CLEARING THERE WAS LIKE
LIEUTENANT THERE ONCE AGAIN DONT KNOW THE NAMES JOHN WOULD PROBABLY KNOW WHO
HE WAS HE ALWAYS DOES THE LIEUTENANT SAW US WALKING DOWN HE STARTS RUNNING UP TO US
HE RANUP TO USHE
SAID ARE YOU GUYS ALL RIGHT HE GRABBED OUR EQUIPMENT AND CARRIED IT FOR US THOUGHT THAT WAS THE COOLEST THING THAT YOU COULD DO AT THAT TIME
HE GAVE US SOME WATER AND WE HUNG OUT OVER BY RAIL FOR DONT KNOW HOW LONG THEN WE JUST STARTED
LISTENING TO THE RADIO COAST GUARD COMING UP THERE ARE JETS FLYING OVERHEAD NOW EVERY SOUND YOU HEAR EVERYBODY IS PANICKING AND RUNNING EVERYWHERE
BOTH BUILDINGS ARE DOWN
BOTH BUILDINGS ARE DOWN IF ANYBODY SCREAMED OR ANYBODY RAN IN LITTLE HURRY IN ANY
DIRECTION EVERYBODY WAS JUST FOLLOWING THEM IT DIDNT MATTER WHAT WAS GOING ON LONG STORY SHORT
16

HEER
GL1E FINALLY GET TO THE FERRY SOUTH FERRY NOW
YES SOUTH FERRY NOT MUCH REALLY IN BETWEEN PRETTY MUCH HANGING OUT TALKING ABOUT STUFF TRYING TO GET SENSE OF HUMOR ABOUT THE SITUATION SOME PEOPLE ALREADY MOVING AROUND IN THOSE LITTLE
CARTS
WE WENT OUT FOR LONG BOARDS FOR LITTLE BIT TO THE ONLY PLACE THAT HAD LONG BOARDS AT THAT TIME
WAS BELLEVUE BUNCH OF THEIR OWN EMPLOYEES WERE JUST
SITTING THERE STARING AT US AND WERE LIKE TO HELL WITH THAT WE ARE GOING OVER THERE SO WE TOOK
BUNCH OF LONG BOARDS HEADED BACK DOWNTOWN HUNG OUT THERE FOR WHILE LISTENED TO THE PRESIDENTS
ADDRESS YOU KNOW THAT WAS REALLY INSPIRING
SOMEBODY PUT IT OVER THE PA SYSTEM ONE OF THE BOSSES
AFTER LONG STORY WE FINALLY SAID ITS 11 OCLOCK AT NIGHT WERE HEADING BACK TO THE ISLAND
WE RE NOT REALLY DOING ANYTHING ITS ONLY SOME
WOUNDED GOT TO STATEN ISLAND WE DIDNT KNOW HOW WE WERE GETTING BACK TO THE STATION SO BUNCH OF
FIREFIGHTERS ACTUALLY RESCUE THERE WAS FIREFIGHTERS THEY WERE THE ONLY TWO THAT SURVIVED
WERE ON THE BOAT WITH US AND WE WERE ALL REALLY QUIET
WALKING
17

HEER
IT WA MORBID FERRY RIDE BACK
WE HOPPED ON TRAIN DIDNT KNOW WHERE
ELSE TO GO WE HOPPED ON TRAIN WE GOT OFF AT NEW DORP WE CALLED THEM UP CALLED THE STATION FOR SOMEBODY TO PICK US UP AT THIS TIME DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE OUTSIDE WORLD BESIDES WHAT WAS GOING ON IN MANHATTAN THEY WERE LIKE YEAH WE WILL
SEND SOMEBODY DOWN TO NEW DORP TO PICK YOU UP GET OFF THE TRAIN THERE AT NEW DORP ALL RIGHT WE GET OFF
THE TRAIN NOBODY SHOWS UP WE CALL THEM THEY ARE LIKE OH YES WE ARE STILL WAITING FOR SOMEBODY TO SHOW
IM LIKE FINE
THEN ONE CAR POPS BY HE SAYS YOU GUYS NEED RIDE ANYWHERE DIDNT REALIZE WE ARE ALL COVERED
IN THIS SHIT STILL SOME LITTLE KIDS ARE ASKING US ALL ABOUT THIS ITS WHAT YOU SEE ON TV THATS PRETTY
MUCH WHAT IT IS THATS THE EXTENT WHAT WAS GOING ON ANOTHER CAR PULLED UP SO WERE LIKE NO NO WE ARE
STILL WAITING FOR RIDE FINALLY THE THIRD FOURTH CAR PULLS UP AND ASKS US LET ME DRIVE YOU ANYWHERE YOU GUYS WANT MY FAMILY IS HERE GIVING US THEIR STORY THEY WANTED TO HEAR THERE WAS NOTHING REALLY TO TELL THEM
ANYWAY SOME GENTLEMAN DID PICK US UP IN
UP
18

HEER
BY DROVE BACK TO THE TATIORI HERE THEN LEFT WENT HOME
WENT DOWNSTAIRS AND TURNED ON THE TV AND THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME SAW
IT ALL ITS SCREWED UP THATS ABOUT IT
MR DUN THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW WITH
JOHN IT IS 815 AM THANK YOU VERY MUCH
19
File No. 9110471
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER THOMAS DONATO
   Interview Date:  January 17, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
T. DONATO 2
          CHIEF McGRATH:  Today's date is January
     17th, 2002.  The time is 1612 hours.  I am
     Battalion Chief Jim McGrath of the Fire
     Department of the City of New York.  I'm
     conducting an interview with Tommy Donato
     from Ladder 85.  This interview is taking
     place in the quarters of Ladder 85, and it's
     regarding the events of September 11th,
     2001.
     Q.   Tommy, if you will please state your
name and just recall the events that took place
as best as you can remember them.
     A.   My name is Tommy Donato, Ladder 85.
          As far as I remember that morning I
came into work my regular tour.  I started seeing
some stuff on the TV of the first plane.  I
remember calling my wife and saying most likely
I'm going to get called there and I'll call you
later, is basically what I said.  That was before
we got actually called to the job.
          Then after the second plane hit, Ladder
85, as far as I remember, was sent.  As we were
on the Verrazano, I remember looking over to the
left and seeing the billowing of smoke.  I
T. DONATO 3
believe one building had collapsed by the time we
were on the Verrazano.  I'm not positive if that
actually happened or not.
          We get to the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel.
We were going to go through the Battery Tunnel,
but because civilians were walking out, they said
we couldn't go in.  So they turned us around, and
we took the bridge, the Brooklyn Bridge.
          As we get over the Brooklyn Bridge, we
headed down -- I'm not really sure on the street.
I remember heading down the street and pulling
the rig over to the side.  We filled the stokes
basket with up with as much equipment as we could
possibly fit of what we thought we might need.
Then we walked.
          We walked down the street that we were
parked on and waited for what to do, an
assignment what to do.  We were standing around
not knowing exactly what to do.
     Q.   Could we stop for one minute.  I'm
going to see if I can quiet the outside noise.
          (Interruption.)
     Q.   Okay.  Now you can resume, please.
     A.   So then a couple firemen were
T. DONATO 4
approaching us.  They said the chief said they
were commandeering some radios, so I had to give
up my radio.  They were taking them from truck
companies that had multiple radios.  So we were
left with I think two or three radios after that.
          At the time we were told to go set up
the tower ladder -- I think was around 11:00; I'm
not sure -- to put out one of the fires that was
burning in one of the smaller black buildings.  I
think it was World Trade Center Five or Four
maybe.
          A couple things that stuck out in my
head on that when we went to go set up, Ladder 7,
which I worked with a couple years ago, was set
up, and they were dumping water on the fire.
Then one of the members from Ladder 7 came up to
me and said something like, "Did you see the guys
from Ladder 7?"  I said, "Yeah, they're right
there."  He said, "No, those are the guys that
just came down.  Did you see anyone" -- he named
the names of the guys that were working that day.
Then I said I didn't see anything.
          Then we started to set up our tower
ladder.  Something that sticks out in my head --
T. DONATO 5
I'm struggling with this, but what sticks out in
my head is as the tool measurers were coming down
and we were setting it up, this salty old fireman
comes up to me and he said, "Did you check the
manhole covers?"
          In the middle of things falling all
over the place, buildings burning, this guy
remembered to check to see if the tool measurers
were coming down on a manhole cover, which kind
of surprised me.
          So then they aborted us from setting up
the tower ladder because they were worried about
now seven coming down.  So then they pulled us
away.  This is where I kind of start remembering
a lot.
          We came around, I think we took Murray
Street down the west side, and we stopped the rig
and pulled over to the side and we all got out of
the rig.  We were standing, waiting for seven to
come down.  We were there for quite a while, a
couple hours.
          During that time a couple of the
members felt like we were being useless just
standing around.  We wanted to do something.  So
T. DONATO 6
we started trying to walk down, trying to get
into the pile.  We kept on being turned around
from chiefs, because they didn't want us near
seven.
          Prior to seven coming down, this is the
first chance that we -- we were starting to get
hungry, so one of the members that I was with, he
said we heard there was a box of fruit or bananas
down the block, so we started walking down the
block.
          As we were walking, we had to actually
get a little closer to seven.  So we turned and
looked at seven, and that's when all the marble
siding started popping off the side because it
was starting to go down.
          I think we ran down I think it was
Vesey Street -- yeah, it was Vesey Street that we
ran down.  Seven came down.  We ran back to 85.
As far as I remember, 85 came down -- I don't
know what this street right here is.
     Q.   Greenwich.  That's Greenwich.
     A.   We made our way to the base of seven.
That's where we set up the tower ladder.
          As we were coming down Greenwich -- was
T. DONATO 7
it Greenwich?  I'm not sure.  It was either West
or Greenwich.  There was multiple cars on fire
throughout the block.  All the hydrants, there
was no pressure in any of the hydrants that we
were around.  There was a pumper set up on one of
the streets, so we tried to stretch a line off
the pumper because there was no pressure in the
hydrant.
          Tommy Delpino, the firefighter who was
driving that day, suggested that we tap off the
standpipe system in I think it was The Bank of
New York, or maybe it was 75 Park Place.  It was
one of the buildings that was there.  So we
started stretching a line off that.
          By then the radios, the batteries were
dead.  We had no communication.  My captain at
the time was on the front of the line with two
other guys that I don't know.  They're from a
different company.
          So I was actually acting as the radio
communication between Delpino, who was at the
standpipe, and the captain who was at the end of
the line.  He would tell me stop the water.  I
would run back and tell him.  Then I would run
T. DONATO 8
back to help with the line.  Then I would run
back and tell him to shut down.
          We worked our way putting out the car
fires, which I don't know if there was
ammunition, because there was a lot of cop cars,
but there was explosions.  Tires were exploding.
There had to be about 15 or 20 car fires.  We put
them out as we worked our way down.
          So then we were able to get 85 to the
base of seven where seven had just collapsed.  We
set up 85 and started dumping water.  It had to
be around 7 or 8:00, and we stayed there until 7
in the morning the next morning, alternating the
members in between the bucket and just dumping
the water on the base of seven from the north
side.
          That's basically how the day went.
     Q.   Okay.  By any chance do you remember
who you gave the radio to when you gave up your
radio earlier?
     A.   No, no.
     Q.   No?
          How about the pumper that you said was
on Greenwich Street, do you remember what company
T. DONATO 9
that was?
     A.   It seemed like it was an extra pumper,
because it was like a 505 or a 515 number.
     Q.   Do you remember the name of the
companies of anybody else that you operated with
or saw besides you had mentioned 7 earlier?
     A.   No, I don't remember companies that
were on the line.  I don't remember any companies
that we worked with that day.  The guy from 7 was
kind of walking around in a daze, looking for his
guys.  In fact, I met him like twice or three
times that day.  He kept on asking me, "Did you
see anyone from 7?  Did you see anyone from 7?"
He mentioned the guys who were working that day.
          When I rotated, I stayed in my same
group, group 2.  So Danny Suhr who was in 216 I
worked with all the time, because I was in group
2.  We lost him.  All the guys in 7 were guys
that I -- some guys you don't see.  Some groups
you just hardly work with.  These are guys that I
spent time at their summer house and stuff.  So
when I heard that they were missing, I was quite
upset.
     Q.   Had you seen any of the guys from 216
T. DONATO 10
at all?
     A.   216, no I did not see any of them.
     Q.   Is there anything else that you can
think of that might be helpful to us or that you
would like to add?
     A.   No, not really.
     Q.   Okay.  I want to thank you very much
for all your help in providing us with this
information.
          CHIEF McGRATH:  This will conclude the
     interview, then.  The time is 1622 hours.
          FIREFIGHTER DONATO:  Thank you.
          CHIEF McGRATH:  Thank you.
File No. 9110472
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         CAPTAIN ROBERT SOHMER
   Interview Date:  January 17, 2002
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
R. SOHMER
2
          BATTALION CHIEF McGRATH:  Today's date is
     January 17, 2002.  The time is 1539 hours.  I am
     Battalion Chief James McGrath of the Fire
     Department of the City of New York.  I'm
     conducting an interview with Captain Sohmer of
     Ladder 85 regarding the events that took place on
     September 11, 2001.  This interview is taking
     place in the quarters of Ladder 85 in Staten
     Island.
     Q.   Captain, state your name and relate the
events as you recall them?
     A.   Captain Robert Sohmer Ladder 85.  We
responded from quarters at approximately the time that
the second building was struck.  We had a very easy
fast response.  Our response area was to the Battery
Tunnel, where we were supposed to meet other companies
and proceed through the Battery Tunnel to Manhattan.
          We got to the Battery Tunnel, we were the
first company there.  There were no other companies
that were on the scene and we were stopped from
proceeding at that point by the tunnel police, the TBTA
police because they had feared a bomb had gone off in
the tunnel.
          We tried raidioing the dispatcher at that
R. SOHMER
3
time for other instructions, or anything else they
wanted us to do, but the radio traffic was so heavy we
couldn't get through at that point.  Other companies
had responded in at that point and we were then
instructed to go to the Brooklyn Bridge and respond to
Manhattan side of the Brooklyn Bridge and get other
orders from that position.
          When we got there, we finally found where a
command post was located, and that was at Broadway and
Park, probably by Saint Ann's Street, is that what it
looks like right there?  I think it was opposite
Trinity Church right there.  At that command post there
was numerous members there, some off duty, some on.
They were trying to structure that command post at that
time there.
          They were trying to separate companies that
had actual apparatus and guys who were just off duty.
When they found out we had an apparatus, we were
instructed to respond to between 4 and 5 World Trade
Center.  The second building had just collapsed, around
that time we got to the command post, and we had seen
members who were coming up from the street and at that
time we had gone down, operated between 4 and 5,
searching, using our Tower Ladder.  We operated in that
R. SOHMER
4
area for I would say approximately an hour to an hour
and a half.
          We operated in that position for I would say
approximately an hour to hour and a half probably.
There were 3 tower ladders operating at that point.  We
proceeded to search the areas we could.  We operated
our Tower Ladder on 4 and 5 extinguishing fire and we
had members in the buckets.   We had other members
searching where we could search in that area for any
victims or anything else we could find at that point.
          As the day went on they started worrying
about 7 World Trade Center collapsing and they ordered
an evacuation from that area so at that time, we left
the area with the other companies, went back to the
command post on Broadway, where we were instructed,
they were looking for companies to go to the west side
to operate on the bridges, to cut members out that they
had confirmed were pinned and trapped under the bridges
on the west side.
          A Battalion Chief was assigned to us.  We
took our apparatus to West Street to the north bridge,
on that side over there, where we began to operate.  We
had identified different members who were deceased and
trapped in rigs.  We were about to proceed our
R. SOHMER
5
operation there and this was in the afternoon, I would
say approximately maybe 2:00 roughly, where we started
to operate and then they asked us to fall back again
due to the potential of 7 World Trade Center
collapsing.
          At that time, we had fallen back to probably
opposite Stuyvesant High School, I believe it was on
the west side there.
     Q.   That's uptown a little bit.
     A.   Right.  They had us fall back to there.  We
stayed at that position until exactly when 7
collapsed.  When 7 collapsed, we responded again.  We
had an Engine Company, a spare Engine Company with us
and ourselves.  We responded to just behind 7, which
was, I think it was Greenwich, was it Washington or
Greenwich?  I think it was Greenwich.  Is this
Greenwich?
     Q.   It could be.  I don't have a bigger map.
     A.   We turned the corner, 7 had just collapsed,
the block that led into 7.
     Q.   Pretty sure that's Greenwich.
     A.   Greenwich and Park was covered with debris,
there were burning autos and all debris.  It was
starting to extend into the buildings on both sides of
R. SOHMER
6
the block.  We went to hydrants in that area.  We had
off duty guys in our cells, but the hydrants had no
water.  We did whatever we could.  The rigs actually
were starting to become in danger of lighting up
themselves.
          We called trying to get water returned to us
over here.  Finally one of the members thought, we used
it for a good period of time, we forced the door on one
of the buildings there and used the water from the roof
tanks.  It was left in the gravity tanks.  We took a
two and a half line out of one of the doors.  We were
able to advance down Greenwich, stopping, putting fire
out in the street, the cars and from getting into
exposures.
          We backed our rig into position at 7 World
Trade Center.  We searched the area of the buildings
that were in the vicinity all there and then from
approximately 5:45 p.m. that day, the 11th, until about
4 in the morning, 5 in the morning, we operated our
Tower Ladder on 7 World Trade Center.  Basically that
was the extent of our day.
     Q.   Okay.  Just a couple of questions if I
might.  Do you remember the Chief's name that you
worked with when you worked over by the pedestrian
R. SOHMER
7
bridge?
     A.   No, I don't know.  He didn't have a Chief's
jacket on.  He must have went to a fire house, grabbed
his stuff and he was -- he actually had a fireman's
helmet on and another coat.  I never caught his name.
     Q.   How about any names of the members that you
were trying to dig out that were under the bridge?
     A.   I'm trying to think.  We got down to the
position.  The company actually stayed up at a certain
point because we couldn't get the apparatus physically
down.  I walked down to the position with the Chief
where we were going to assess what we need and how
close we wanted to get with the apparatus.
          They were worried about 7 at the time.  The
decision was made not to do it, not to get anybody else
hurt.  That's when we backed up and they said let's
wait for this other building before we continue any
work, because where the bridge was was in the direct
path of 7.  It was the north bridge where we were
looking initially.
     Q.   Do you recall any radio transmissions or
anything that might be helpful in possible location of
units or members?
     A.   The radio transmissions were so fast and
R. SOHMER
8
furious.  Anything specifically, at night I had heard
them working on somebody who was trapped.  They seemed
to be in the south building.  I believe I heard 78
truck at one time calling for -- saying that they had
somebody there.  I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure 78
truck called for help, but my radio seemed to function
for most of the time.  Most of the other radios had
gone out, but it seemed to me that the rescue effort
that I seemed to have heard was in the south side some
place, off Liberty, from what I do remember of it.
          For some reason I do remember 78 calling.
     Q.   The units that you operated on Greenwich
Street with?
A. Ithinkitwas505or525wasoneofthe
spare engines.  153 Truck worked on West Street for a
while.  I saw them over there by 7 World Trade Center.
Then there was a second Tower Ladder that backed into
position with us, which was -- I guess we operated
mainly there at that point.
     Q.   Is there anything else that you can think of
that you might want to add that might help us in
researching this?
     A.   No, basically not without going into every
minute.  Once we got our assignments, for the most part
R. SOHMER
9
we operated between 4 and 5.  We operated with the
Tower Ladder there effectively on those buildings that
were within our reach.  Then the other part was
unfortunately we couldn't do anything at the pedestrian
bridge but the concern of 7, which they had no idea
which way it was going to collapse and they just knew
it was going to collapse and they positioned us outside
of it.  We positioned outside of it so we could --
there weren't many apparatus around.
          The apparatus were functional.  We grabbed
them and had a good stop as we came down that Greenwich
Street right there, because there was no concentration
of units.  Seemed most people were there.  The guys we
had off duty and on duty.  We were the only truck, I
believe, operating at that time.  But there was a lot
of fire advancing north up Greenwich and it was -- it
worked out good for us, it was a good position.
     Q.   When you first arrived and you were on I
guess you were on Church Street between 4 and 5 World
Trade Center, you said there was a lot of firemen in
the area, do you remember anybody specifically or
companies that you might have seen?
     A.   I think there was 7 Truck was one of the
tower ladders operating on one of the buildings right
R. SOHMER
10
there.  There was a company that was north of us
operating on 5.  We were in the middle between 4 and 5
operating alternately there and wetting down the area
into the Trade Center area itself where the rubble was
still hot.
          The company to the south of us was -- it was
a double digit -- I don't know if it was 14.  I'm just
stabbing at numbers now.  It was just so much debris
between cars, it was hard to see what was good and bad,
stuff like that.  But that was our main position right
there.  I would say from approximately about at least
an hour, hour and a half between 4 and 5.  They made us
evacuate due to the fear of 7 coming down.
          That's when we went back to the command post,
got the other instruction to work with this Chief,
where we went to the west side, got as far down as we
could.  The Chief and myself went down to that area
where we they wanted us to work.  Seeing what we would
need; torches, air bags, anything else like that to
operate at that bridge.  The concern there again, it
was later in the afternoon, 2, 2:30, like I said.  The
fear then was 7.  7 was free burning.
          Search had been made of 7 already from what
they said so they had us back up to that point where we
R. SOHMER
11
were waiting for 7 to come down to operate from the
north back down.
          BATTALION CHIEF McGRATH:  Thank you very much
     for all the information that you provided us.
     This will conclude the interview then and the time
     is 1552 hours.
File No. 9110473
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER THOMAS ORLANDO
   Interview Date:  January 18, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
T. ORLANDO 2
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today is January
     18th, 2002.  The time is 1200 hours.  This
     is Battalion Chief Frank Congiusta of the
     Safety Battalion of the New York City Fire
     Department.  I'm conducting an interview
     with the following individual.
          Please state your name.
          FIREFIGHTER ORLANDO:  Thomas Orlando.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Thomas Orlando is a
     firefighter first class in Engine 65 of the
     New York City Fire Department.  We're at the
     quarters of Engine 65.  This interview is
     regarding the events of September 11th,
     2001.
     Q.   Thomas, will you please tell your story
in your own words.
     A.   From when we left here?
     Q.   Yeah, from when you got the run, yeah.
Did you know that a plane had hit the towers?
     A.   We were in quarters and we were
watching on the TV that a plane hit the twin
towers.  Then we got the run on the fifth alarm.
We got on the rig and started responding down
there.
T. ORLANDO 3
          The chauffeur went down West Street.
On the way down there, en route, we heard on the
radio that another plane hit the second tower.
At that time we figured to ourselves that we were
under attack and that we were going to something
that we never went to before.
          The chauffeur stopped the rig.  We got
there in, I'd say, about ten minutes.  We stopped
the rig I'd say about 100 feet north of the north
tower on West Street.  We all got off the rig.
We grabbed our rollups.  I was the control man.
I had the control bag.  The officer told us take
an extra mask, which we were told to do, an extra
cylinder, actually.
          So we took the extra stuff, and we
walked over with the officer to I guess it was
the street.  There was a command post in the
street which was in front of I guess north of the
north tower again.  I don't know where --
          (Interruption.)
     A.   We stopped the rig before the
overbridge.  We walked over to the chief who was
running the operation at the time.  I don't know
his name.  We checked in.  Our officer told us
T. ORLANDO 4
that we were to go into the north tower and start
working our way up.
          We entered the building on the West
Street side.  We entered the north tower.  We
kept walking in.  We walked into the lobby.  The
elevators were not working, so we started up the
stairway the stairway at the time, I don't recall
the number.  We started working our way up.
          We made it up -- every five or six or
seven floors we just took a little break because
there were a lot of people on the stairway, a lot
of people coming down, just to catch our breath
and whatever, take a little breather.
          We finally made it up to probably
around the -- I would say the 18th floor when we
took a little break.  At the time the building
was shaking.  It was hit with something.  At that
time we thought it was another missile attack, so
we all just ran into the stairway and just helped
cover us and other civilians and firemen until it
stopped shaking.  We didn't know what it was at
the time.
          After everything cleared, about might
be five minutes, myself and the officer and maybe
T. ORLANDO 5
a few other ones proceeded to work up to the 20th
floor.  At that time we were told that the other
building --
     Q.   Did you hear it on the radio?
     A.   I didn't hear anything on the radio,
other than a mayday.  My fellow partners said
they did.  I did not hear it.  I was control man.
I had a radio.
     Q.   Some guys heard it; some guys didn't.
     A.   Right.
          We were told that there's been a
collapse -- they didn't say what collapsed -- and
to start working your way out.  My officer, who
was great at the time, had a lot of experience
and he knew something was up.  So he just said,
"Let's go.  We're going out."
          At that time we started to proceed down
from the 20th floor.  We met the other guys who
were with us on 18.  We started to work our way
down, with the civilians and other firemen,
helping each other back and forth.
          I did pass some people that I know.
Captain Freddie Ill was on I think the 13th
floor.  We saw him.  We asked him what was going
T. ORLANDO 6
on.  He said he'd be right down.  They were doing
something.  They didn't mention what they were
doing.  Obviously they didn't need a hand,
because they didn't ask us for help.  They said
they'd be right down.  I guess his company was on
that floor.
          So we worked our way down, helping
civilians, other firemen.  It was a very slow
walk.  On the way down I guess it was the dust
from the south tower -- we thought it was
smoke -- started coming up.  The lights went out.
There were no lights at the time in the stairway.
It was dark.  We thought it was smoke from
whatever it was, but it was actually the dust
from the south tower.  We still didn't know it
collapsed.
          I'd say it took us 25 minutes to get
out from the floor we were on, which was the
20th.
     Q.   When you got out, did you go out the
same way you came in?
     A.   Yes.  We got into the lobby.  Some
people were just hanging out, making decisions
which way to go, trying to find their way out.
T. ORLANDO 7
Usually when you go out of a building, in my case
we usually find the fire engine.  We move out to
the fire engine to see what was going on, which
was parked at that time where we dropped off,
north of the north tower.
          We came out of the building.  I do
remember a firefighter from I think 4 Truck
asking one of us for masks because he had to go
up to the 42nd floor; to do what, I don't know.
     Q.   You don't know the guy?
     A.   I don't know the guy.  I don't know his
name.  One of our guys gave him his mask.  It
wasn't me.  One of our other guys gave him his
mask.  He said he had to go up there to help
rescue, which I think was on the 42nd floor.
What they were doing, I don't know.  I don't
think the guy made it out; I'm not sure.
          Then we came out of the building.  My
officer and two other firefighters were in the
lobby for a second.  We became separated for
maybe a couple of minutes.  As we walked out, we
were watching out because there were still things
dropping out of the north tower.  We just ran,
scattered a little bit to the front, which is
T. ORLANDO 8
West Street.
          Chief Al Turi was there with a
megaphone, Chief Al Turi, who saved an awful lot
of people.  He was just yelling for everybody to
clear away from the building.  He was screaming
"Just keep moving.  Don't stop."  I still didn't
know the south tower collapsed, because at that
time when we came out all the dust and everything
was clear.  There was a little dust in the area,
but it was blue sky.  You can't see, actually,
the south tower from where you are.
     Q.   Yeah, right.  There's that big --
     A.   Right, right.  You can't see it because
it supposedly collapsed downwards.  So we
couldn't see the south tower had collapsed.
          We just kept walking.  I'd say we
waited by Al Turi for a minute or two.  I got in
touch with my officer, who was still in the
lobby.  They came out and they met us.  Once they
met us, we crossed West Street.  Al Turi was
still there with the megaphone yelling for
everybody to keep clearing away from the
building, don't stop, just keep walking, move,
move.
T. ORLANDO 9
          I don't know if some guys went south.
I'm not sure.  I know we went north because
that's where our fire engine was and that's where
we were going to go.  As we started to walk, we
just passed the bridge, the first bridge, which
was on whatever it was.
     Q.   On West Street.
     A.   Yeah, the bridge.  We just passed that.
We were a bunch of firemen.  Somebody just
yelled, "It's coming down!"  We just looked up,
and the tower started to collapse.  We looked up,
and everybody just scattered all different ways.
          I went up West Street.  I just kept
running up West Street, because that's where I
figured I had to be to be away from this.  Some
guys I guess dove under cars.  I know my officer
and they went up the street which is right there;
I think it was Vesey.  Where are we?
     Q.   Vesey.  They probably went that way;
right?
     A.   Where is the south tower?
     Q.   The south tower is over here.
     A.   Where's West Street?  We came here?
     Q.   Yeah, here's the north tower.
T. ORLANDO 10
     A.   The north tower.  So I would say --
there's a street right here next to Merrill
Lynch.
Q. Okay.
     A.   I would say over here.  Maybe Vesey
Street, right.  They must have went up Vesey
Street.  Because this rig was actually destroyed;
right?
     Q.   Yeah, that was destroyed.
     A.   So they must have went up Vesey Street.
I went straight up West Street.
     Q.   West Street.
     A.   I didn't even know what was going to
happen, but we got separated.  Then the building
came down.  I just turned around and I just saw
this big black thing around me, which I didn't
know at the time what it was.  I thought this was
it.  I thought it was a fireball or the building
around me.  I just said I didn't think I'd make
it; there's no way.
          Then it hit me with a force, which was
incredible.  That was actually the dust storm.
It just was total darkness, no sound at all,
nothing at all.  I just stood there for a second.
T. ORLANDO 11
What am I going to do?  I started walking around,
walking into walls, walking into cars.  You
couldn't see nothing.
I finally just walked to an area where IsawanESUcar. IgotuptoitandIheldonto it. I closed the windows in the car. I was going to go inside of it, but I said no, I better not. I held onto it in case something else happened. I didn't know what was going to happen. I was underneath whatever it was.
          So I waited there for like whatever --
it felt like forever -- until everything cleared.
After everything cleared to a point where I could
see, I started to walk back to the area.  My
company was -- obviously they must have come out
and passed me.  They must have gone up the West
Side Highway to where they were supposed to go.
I walked back in, into the area, to see what we
could do and if I could help and stuff.
          At the time the magnitude didn't hit
me.  You don't think that there's people trapped.
You think that everybody got out.  I'm here, so
everybody else got out.  You don't think of the
magnitude of the collapse.
T. ORLANDO 12
          At that time I came back here, and
there was a bunch of firefighters over by the
rig.  Frank Gribbon was there.  He was a
chauffeur, so I started hooking up lines to help
another chauffeur.  We were putting out all the
car fires that were exploding.  I did that for
probably around an hour and a half.
          I couldn't see nothing.  My eyes were
shot, cut and stuff.  I was just physically gone.
          I was doing that for a while back and
forth.  Right in this area of Vesey Street, there
was a whole bunch of car fires.  We were putting
them out.  Then a chief -- who he was, I don't
know.  He saw the way I looked.  I was talking to
Ronnie, a guy from 16 Truck, the chauffeur -- 16
Engine, actually.
          He asked, "What are you guys doing?"  I
said, "Well, we're just operating some hose
lines."  He said, "Were you guys in the
collapse?"  I said, "Yeah, we were."  He said,
"You guys are out of here.  Just leave the area."
He took my name down.  He said, "I don't want to
see you in here again."  He made us leave the
area.  Why --
T. ORLANDO 13
     Q.   They were probably trying to get a head
count.
     A.   Right.  He made us leave the area.  He
took my name and said, "If you were there" -- he
made us leave the area.
          I walked down to the west side and I
met my company.  At the time they knew I made it
because we had radioed a transmission.  I told
the officer where I was.  I said, "Lou, I'm over
here."  I knew they were out of the site already.
I said, "I'm helping with car fires, doing what I
can with whatever I have left."
          Like I said, that's basically it.  I
remember going up -- there were two guys from 24
Engine who rolled up at the time and hooked up
with us.  They came up by themselves.  They had
no masks or anything.  They hooked up with us.
We said, "Where are you going with no masks?"
They said, "We're going to go up."  I said, "You
guys are crazy, going up there with no masks."
          They hooked up with us.  I guess being
with us it saved them, because they didn't go up
any farther.  They came out with us.
     Q.   They went up --
T. ORLANDO 14
     A.   They went up with us.  We said, "Why
don't you work with us?"  Our officer said, "Why
don't you work with us?  We'll work together."
They worked with us, and they came out with us.
I saw them later in the triage area.  We were
hugging and thank God they were with us.
          Other than that -- then I came out of
the area and they wouldn't let us back in.  We
just stayed there until seven or eight hours
until they released us.
          That's basically off the bat what I
remember.
     Q.   Anything else?
     A.   No.  Guys I've seen -- I know a lot of
guys passing us, guys who were running up there.
There was a chief who was actually upset at us
because we were taking a breather on one of the
floors.  He was like, "What are you guys doing?"
The officer was like we're carrying all this
stuff.
     Q.   Yeah, you've got to go up 80 floors.
     A.   So where are we going to go?  Whether
he lived or not, I don't know.  He actually ran
past us also.  Then we saw him a little while
T. ORLANDO 15
later on one of the floors.  He was puking and
stuff.  So we said, "Chief, why don't you just
relax a little bit.  Where are you going to go?"
He said, "No, I've got to go," and he left again.
So whether he made it or not, I don't know.
     Q.   They may have told him go up there and
tell us what you've got.  So he was determined to
get up there, and you can't run up 80 flights of
stairs.
     A.   No, you can't, you can't.  He wasn't in
great shape.  He was an elderly guy -- not
elderly but --
     Q.   Older than me?
     A.   There were guys who were running up
there just like -- and the civilians were great.
They were coming down, giving us water, telling
"You guys are great."  We helped out a lot of
people.  They were all bunched up in an area, and
we were just saying, "Stay to the wall.  Just
keep walking.  Don't stop.  Let us go up.  You
guys come right down."  They were giving us water
and Gatorade.
          There were some people we saw who were
bleeding.  Some were burnt.  We weren't sure
T. ORLANDO 16
whether we should help them.  They were moving
down.  The best thing to do is let's keep moving,
don't stop.  Then on the way down we did the same
thing, helped each other, firemen.  Some people
took our masks for some air, civilians.  We did
help out that one lady that 6 Truck helped out.
     Q.   Josephine?
     A.   I think we helped one floor with her.
We just got her one floor, and then they took
over.  I guess they walked the rest of her.  She
was heavy, so we just couldn't do much with her.
          Other than that, that's basically what
I remember.
     Q.   Okay.  That's fine.  Thanks a lot for
being candid with us.  Thank you, Tommy.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  It's 20 after 12, and
     that completes the interview.
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File No. 9110474
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
          F. F. ROBERT SALVADOR
    Interview Date:  January 18, 2002
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
R SALVADOR
2
1
	.	 2                  CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today is January 18,
	.	
	.	 3            2002.  The time is 1325 hours, and this is
	.	
	.	 4            Battalion Chief Frank Congiusta, the safety
	.	
	.	 5            battalion, New York City Fire Department.
	.	
	.	 6                  I'm conducting an interview with the
	.	
	.	 7            following individual.
	.	
	.	8  Q. 
	.	9  A. 
	.	10  28. 
	.	11  Q. 
	.	12       We are at the location -- we are at the quarters
	.	
	.	13       of Engine 28, and this interview is regarding the
	.	
	.	14       events of September 11.
	.	
	.	15                  Go ahead.  Tell the story in your own
	.	
	.	16  words. 
	.	17            A.    The alarm came in.  We heard the
	.	
	.	18       explosion.  My initial thought that the explosion
	.	
	.	19       was something out of the kitchen.  It was
	.	
	.	20       approximately 8:47, 8:48.
	.	
	.	21                  We ran out to the front.  We were
	.	
	.	22       getting on the rig.  We knew it was an explosion,
	.	
	.	23       and then we heard a 1060, an emergency.  A 1060
	.	
	.	24       came over and said a plane just hit the north
	.	
	.	25       tower, commuter plane.  So we really manned the
	.	
Please state your name.
Firefighter Robert Salvador, Engine
Of the New York City Fire Department.
R SALVADOR
3
1
	.	 2       rig, and then we finally got the ticket as we
	.	
	.	 3       were pulling out of the quarters.
	.	
	.	 4                  I proceeded down first the FDR Drive.
	.	
	.	 5       On the FDR Drive, traffic was backed up all -- as
	.	
	.	 6       far as we know, as far as I could see.  The left
	.	
	.	 7       lane was open for emergency vehicles, and we were
	.	
	.	 8       following a couple of police cars, and we made it
	.	
	.	 9       to the tunnel going to the west, West Street,
	.	
	.	10       from the FDR Drive.  As we came out of the
	.	
	.	11       tunnel, the battery, the tunnel was in front of
	.	
	.	12       us.  The cops were waving us in, and we proceeded
	.	
	.	13       in, and there were numerous parts of bodies and
	.	
	.	14       body parts all over the street, and we
	.	
	.	15       encountered -- we had seen five or six floors of
	.	
	.	16       fire from the north tower, confirmed fire.
	.	
	.	17                  I proceeded on.  I dropped the
	.	
	.	18       lieutenant and the five firefighters off in front
	.	
	.	19       of the north tower.  There were no hydrants in
	.	
	.	20       front of the building because they were taken
	.	
	.	21       already, and there were numerous amounts of
	.	
	.	22       engines and trucks in front of the building
	.	
	.	23       already.  I turned up Vesey Street and proceeded
	.	
	.	24       to, I guess, West Street where Building 7 is.  I
	.	
	.	25       made a left turn.  Right there was a hydrant.
	.	
R SALVADOR
4
1
	.	 2                  I proceeded to hook up, and as I was
	.	
	.	 3       hooking up, the second plane hit the south
	.	
	.	 4       tower.  Debris flew into the streets and I
	.	
	.	 5       remember ducking behind the rig because of all
	.	
	.	 6       the debris that was coming, you know, from the
	.	
	.	 7       south tower.
	.	
	.	 8                  Then I stretched into the north
	.	
	.	 9       tower.  I started pumping water into the north
	.	
	.	10       tower, and by that time, I noticed there was
	.	
	.	11       another engine company there.  It was Engine 4,
	.	
	.	12       and they were supplying the north tower from
	.	
	.	13       another standpipe.  There was -- they were east
	.	
	.	14       of West Street from where I was.  I was the only
	.	
	.	15       rig on that block that I could see right at that
	.	
	.	16  moment. 
	.	17                  Numerous amount of people jumping and
	.	
	.	18       landing in the street, landing in front of my
	.	
	.	19       rig, by my rig.  I say I don't know what time.
	.	
	.	20       The time frame I don't remember, but I remember a
	.	
	.	21       few firemen on the concourse level and a chief
	.	
	.	22       with a white helmet and I guess an officer, and
	.	
	.	23       there were maybe six or seven firefighters on a
	.	
	.	24       concourse level when the south tower was
	.	
	.	25       collapsing, and it came down so fast that the
	.	
R SALVADOR
5
1
	.	 2       cloud either -- I turned around to start to run.
	.	
	.	 3                  Either the cloud engulfed them or they
	.	
	.	 4       ran towards Church Street, I don't know, but I
	.	
	.	 5       ran, and the cloud just swept me and picked me up
	.	
	.	 6       and threw me 20 feet, and I crawled under two
	.	
	.	 7       parked cars, and I said my prayers.
	.	
	.	 8                  After that was over, it was completely
	.	
	.	 9       darkness.  There was no radio transmissions at
	.	
	.	10       all.  I remember feeling -- I got up, and I was
	.	
	.	11        -- made my way to the wall.  Something landed on
	.	
	.	12       my ankle, and my ankle was hurting.  I was
	.	
	.	13       feeling my way down the Building 7 towards
	.	
	.	14       Barclay Street, I think it is, and I picked up
	.	
	.	15       two civilians.  I think one was a doctor and one
	.	
	.	16       was a D.E.P. agent, because he had a yellow
	.	
	.	17       jacket on.  I think we both held arm in arm, and
	.	
	.	18       we heard someone calling from a building, and we
	.	
	.	19       made for the building, and we got out of the
	.	
	.	20  street. 
	.	21                  It was total darkness, and you
	.	
	.	22       couldn't see a thing.  I stayed in that building
	.	
	.	23       for about ten minutes.  I made my way back out of
	.	
	.	24       the building back towards my rig.  My rig was
	.	
	.	25       completely full of debris, and the motor was --
	.	
R SALVADOR
6
1
	.	 2       the motor was conked out.  The motor wasn't on,
	.	
	.	 3       so I know it was pumping water, so I took it out
	.	
	.	 4       of pump.  I tried to start the motor.  It
	.	
	.	 5       wouldn't kick over.  I did it again, and then the
	.	
	.	 6       north tower started coming down.
	.	
	.	 7                  I heard the same -- same pancaking,
	.	
	.	 8       like a machine gun coming and glass flying, so I
	.	
	.	 9       closed -- shut the door, got out of the rig, and
	.	
	.	10       ran -- started running across the street.  I
	.	
	.	11       wanted to run up Church Street, but I couldn't
	.	
	.	12       make it to the corner, so everything was on top
	.	
	.	13       of me, so I just took my turnout coat and put it
	.	
	.	14       over my head and knelt in the corner, and the
	.	
	.	15       heat was so tremendous that it took all the
	.	
	.	16       oxygen out of the air.
	.	
	.	17                  I couldn't breathe.  It was so hot.  I
	.	
	.	18       started feeling my way on the side of the wall.
	.	
	.	19       I guess it was the post office wall.  I made my
	.	
	.	20       way to a little more deeper opening, and I
	.	
	.	21       remember somebody opening the door for me, and
	.	
	.	22       then the oxygen inside the building, and no
	.	
	.	23       oxygen outside blew the doors in down the stairs,
	.	
	.	24       and we were lost in the loading dock for I don't
	.	
	.	25       know how long, because it was totally darkness.
	.	
R SALVADOR
7
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	.	 2                  We found our way on top of the -- on
	.	
	.	 3       top of the loading dock, and it started to clear
	.	
	.	 4       a little bit, and in the corner -- we found six
	.	
	.	 5       people huddled in the corner, so all frantic, and
	.	
	.	 6       I tried to tell everybody to calm down.  We got
	.	
	.	 7       to get out of here, and we made our way up
	.	
	.	 8       towards Church Street.
	.	
	.	 9                  We came up into the center of the post
	.	
	.	10       office.  As we came out, it was completely
	.	
	.	11       darkness out there, and I told everybody that,
	.	
	.	12       you know, as soon as we come out of the building,
	.	
	.	13       run north.  That's left out of the building.  I
	.	
	.	14       don't know how I figured that was left, but I
	.	
	.	15       did, and we got out of the building.  Everybody
	.	
	.	16  run left. 
	.	17                  So as soon as we came out of the
	.	
	.	18       building, all the people that were in the
	.	
	.	19       building ran left, and I noticed an ambulance.  I
	.	
	.	20       could just see the silhouette.  Me and this
	.	
	.	21       white-shirt guy, a Port Authority cop, I guess,
	.	
	.	22       jumped in the ambulance.  The ambulance took us
	.	
	.	23       all the way down to Chambers Street, and I got
	.	
	.	24       out, and from there I went and walked up to the
	.	
	.	25       next two blocks, and I jumped in an ambulance,
	.	
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
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and my leg was swollen.  That's all I remember.
     Q.    That's pretty accurate.  Anything else
you want to say?
     A.    No, that's all.
     Q.    Okay, thanks a lot, Bob.  I appreciate
your cooperation.
           The time is 1335, and that's the end
of the interview.
     A.    I do recall before the towers came
down, before the south tower came down, 21 engine
pulled up next to me, and they took whatever
cylinders and whatever roll-ups, and they took my
search rope and whatever tools I had.
           That was Captain Bill Burke, and then
21 engine made a left on Vesey Street going up
towards Church.  I don't know if he grabbed a
hydrant or not, but that's the last I seen of 21
engine, and then I also encountered Jeff
Giordano, because he was on foot.  He came and
took my Scott mask, my spare Scott mask, and
that's it.
     Q.    What company is Jeff?
     A.    3 truck.
     Q.    3 truck, and he took your Scott?
R SALVADOR
8
1
2 A. Right.
	.	3  Q. 
	.	4  A. 
5
6           the interview.
7
R SALVADOR
9
Anything else?
That's it.
CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Okay, this concludes
File No. 9110475
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER ROY CHELSEN
   Interview Date:  January 18, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
R. CHELSEN 2
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today's date is
     January 18, 2002.  The time is 1345 hours.
     This is Battalion Chief Frank Congiusta of
     the Safety Battalion of the New York City
     Fire Department.  I'm conducting an
     interview with the following individual.
          Please state your name.
          FIREFIGHTER CHELSEN:  Roy Chelsen.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Roy is firefighter
     first grade in Engine 28 of the New York
     City Fire Department.  We're at the quarters
     of Engine 28.  This interview is regarding
     the events of September 11th, 2001.
     Q.   Roy, would you please tell your story
in your own words about what happened that day
from when you received the alarm.
     A.   We were actually sitting in the
kitchen, the lieutenant and I, and we actually
heard the first explosion.  We both looked at
each other, and we were like, "Oh, what was
that?"  It seemed like right after that the alarm
came in and we were on our way downtown.
          We took the FDR Drive down, and you
could actually see the building pretty much the
R. CHELSEN 3
whole way down.  The whole three-quarters of the
way up was engulfed in fire.  We went down
underneath the Battery Tunnel.  We came up.  It
was still like flags falling.  It seemed like it
was very quiet.  I noticed that Bob, the
chauffeur, was kind of swerving around.  Later on
I heard he was going around bodies.
          He dropped us off underneath the second
bridge.
     Q.   The north bridge?
     A.   The north bridge up by the north tower.
He dropped us off there.  We looked up to make
sure nothing was coming down, and we proceeded
in.  I think the revolving doors were kind of
busted up, so I think we went through a window.
          We reported to the command desk, the
command post there, and we immediately started
going up.  They just said, "28, start heading
up."
     Q.   Do you know what stairway you went up?
     A.   We went up stairway B.  I believe it
was stairway B.
          From there on we really didn't hear too
much transmission going on that I can remember
R. CHELSEN 4
hearing.  I had the nozzle position.  I had no
radio.  But I don't remember the lieutenant
telling me anything.  Later on I heard that there
were a lot of maydays and a lot of transmissions
going on, but we didn't hear any of it.
          One of the only transmissions I do
remember hearing, because we were sitting on
approximately the 20th floor, that there was
another plane on its way.  At that point we were
still not sure that it was a plane that had hit
the tower.  There was some talk from the
civilians coming down that a plane hit.  The
consensus was that it was a small plane; Never
thinking it was a 737, whatever it was, 767,
whatever it was.
Wemadeourwayupto29or30. We were again resting again. All of a sudden
just -- I don't know if the sequence is right, but everything went black, and all the power went out. There was just this rumbling. I felt like it went on forever.
          I believe 4 Engine was with us, there
was 28, and I believe 8 Truck was with us.  We
all just huddled into the staircase.  We were
R. CHELSEN 5
holding on thinking -- I'm a big person.  I'm
thinking the floor's going to collapse or the
ceiling's coming down, but I thought that was it.
          When the rumbling finally stopped, all
of a sudden we felt this gush of air coming from
everywhere.  Just from every direction there was
like wind blowing.  What I heard later on, that
was just the concussion of the air coming back up
from tower two.
          From there I believe we heard -- there
was a chief that came down with a bullhorn,
telling everybody to get out.  I think he was
from the 11th Battalion.  That's what I'm
hearing.
     Q.   He came down the stairs?
     A.   I think he was up a couple floors ahead
of us.  I don't know if he was with us the whole
time.  I know we were paired up with 4 Engine.  5
Engine was with us, but I heard later on that
somebody in their company had a heart attack or
chest pains.
Q. Yes.
     A.   They took him down.  So I don't know
who was with us the whole time.  But he did come
R. CHELSEN 6
down and tell us to evacuate.
          From there it was just asses and
elbows.  We all just started running.  I didn't
even have my mask on anymore.  We just dropped
everything.  Actually between 20 and 30, 4 Engine
and ourselves kind of joined together there.  So
we dropped everything and started running down on
30.
          We got down to 19 or 20, and I know
there were some cops down there.  We found some
civilians down there.
     Q.   Port Authority cops?
     A.   Port Authority cops.  I saw city cops.
They had their masks on, but they had ESU
uniforms on.
Q. Right.
     A.   They were all huddling about.
Everybody was still coming down.  We were kind of
waiting, getting everybody together again.  A
friend of mine in 8 Truck told me, he said, "Look
out the window.  Tower two is gone."  At that
point nobody knew what was going on.
          At that point we were coming down
stairway C, I think.
R. CHELSEN 7
     Q.   You went across?
     A.   We went across, yeah.
     Q.   Was stairway B clogged?
     A.   Stairway C, I heard -- stairway B
didn't go all the way up or -- for some reason
from 20 over, we switched.
Q. Okay.
     A.   Then I heard coming down they said
stairway C is pretty well wiped out down there,
so it doesn't go down.  I think that's what I
heard, because from there on we went B.  From 20
down to 1 we went on stairway B.
Q. Okay.
     A.   We kind of formed a line for the
civilians, and we led them down the stairs
because it was pitch-black and it started to get
smoky.  We led them down, 4 Engine, ourselves and
I believe 8 Truck again.
     Q.   Did the cops come down with you?
     A.   I don't know.  I don't know.  At this
point it was just like I want to get out.  I
heard that tower two is gone.  I said, let's just
get these people and let's get out of here.
          We all grouped together again, like I
R. CHELSEN 8
said, and we started going down.  We got down to
the lobby.  The lobby is like gone.  There were
probably 20 or 30 guys down in the lobby mulling
around.
     Q.   They weren't trying to get out?
     A.   They were just -- no, no.
          We went to where the command post was.
We were standing there.  Our officer was like,
"Well, let's stay here."  I kept saying, "Lou,
I'm going to get out.  I want to get out of this
building."  I said, "We can go out where we came
in."  There was a brick wall outside tower --
     Q.   The north tower.
     A.   The north tower.  There was a brick
wall.  I said we can run along the wall and go
underneath the bridge there and then shoot up
West Street.  He said, "Is everybody here?"  I
said, "Yeah, the company's all right here."  With
that we -- I think 18 Truck ran out with us, and
we just hauled ass.
          We got out and we got under the bridge.
A couple bodies came down, flying down, just in
front of our guys.  We just got under the bridge
and like, okay, it's safe, it's good.  All of a
R. CHELSEN 9
sudden we heard this huge explosion, and that's
when the tower started coming down.  We all
started running.
          We lost everybody there again.  I don't
know what happened.  I saw my cousin.  We gave
each other a big hug.  That's when everything
started hitting the fan again.  I heard some guys
dove behind cars.  I just kept running up West
Street.
          As soon as that thing hit us, I think
it knocked -- I'm not sure what knocked me over,
but I ended up on the ground.  Like Sal said, it
was completely black.  Now I can't breathe.  You
start running.  I'm out of breath, and I didn't
have my mask.  It was on the 30th floor.  I just
started choking.  I couldn't breathe because I'm
sucking all that shit in.  Somehow I happened to
see a fireman walking to my right.  He had a
mask, and I grabbed it.  He helped me with it
until we walked out.
          Then two guys from an ambulance grabbed
me.  They started giving me water.  They had me
hooked up to an IV.  But then everybody started
running again, something about a major gas leak.
R. CHELSEN 10
     Q.   That's what I heard.  A chief said they
thought there was a major gas leak.
     A.   I said get this thing out of me.  I'm
running again.  I can't sit here.  So they took
it out.  I'm running with my hand on my arm, and
I'm running north again.  We finally met up with
the rest of the crew on West Street.
          I've just got to say, on our way down
we saw 9 Engine with that woman.
     Q.   Right.
     A.   We saw her.
     Q.   6 Truck.
     A.   6 Truck, I'm sorry.  We saw 6 Truck.
We also saw 18 Truck.  I think they were on their
way up to.  We said to them, "They told everybody
out of the building," and then they came with us.
     Q.   That's it?
     A.   Yeah.
     Q.   Wow, that's pretty good.  Well, thank
you, Roy.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  The time is 1455, and
     that's the end of this interview.
File No. 9110476
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         FIREMAN KEVIN CRONICK
   Interview Date:  January 18, 2002
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
K. CRONICK
2
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGUISTA:  Today is January
     18, 2002.  The time is 1115 hours.  This is
     Battalion Chief Frank Conguista of the Safety
     Battalion of the New York City Fire Department.
     I'm conducting an interview with the following
     individual.
     Q.   Please state your name.
     A.   Fireman first grade Kevin Cronick.
     Q.   Fireman Cronick is assigned to Engine 3 of
the New York City Fire Department.  We are at the
quarters of Engine 3.  This interview is regarding the
events of September 11, 2001.  Okay Kevin, could you
please tell us what happened that day in your own
words.
     A.   I arrived at West Street with the rest of the
company, Engine 3, and we disembarked from our
apparatus.  We proceeded to locate over toward the
command post, where I believe it was Chief Ganci was
the Deputy Chief in charge.  Then we were just
assembling there for further orders.  We just sort of
hung around there while things developed and the Chief
was just waiting to assign us a duty, you know,
somewhere, which he hadn't made any decisions at that
point.
K. CRONICK
3
          As other companies arrived, it started
getting a little crowded by the command post, so
Lieutenant Walsh made us move to the adjoining
building, the building adjoining the command post.  We
were standing fast in front of that building.  I
remember seeing Captain Brethel had approached us just
to give us some words of encouragement and told us to
make sure we all stay together and that we didn't get
separated at that stage.  Then he left us and walked
back towards West Street and that was the last time I
had seen Captain Brethel.
          Then shortly thereafter is when I heard this
loud rumbling noise and we looked up and saw that the
building, or the south tower of the Trade Center was
collapsing.  Then we just turned around and took refuge
inside the building we were standing in front of.  The
building collapsed.  Then after it collapsed, once we
felt that it was safe to come back outside again, we
came back out to the front of the building and we
recovered our equipment, whatever we could find, went
looking for our officer and any Chiefs in charge and we
all made -- we all moved around to Vesey Street.  It
seemed to be the focal point where everyone was
gathering.
K. CRONICK
4
          Then from that point, we had moved further
down Vesey Street toward the river, because there was a
fear of the gas mains possibly exploding, which was the
way I understood it.  That was it.  We got down to the
river.  We pretty much just kind of gathered our
thoughts and tried to get everything, all the companies
together to find out who was missing and who was still
with us.
     Q.   Where were you when the second tower
collapsed?
     A.   When the second tower collapsed, we were just
down by the river I think.
     Q.   Did the dust cloud get that far?
     A.   Not really, no.  It never reached that
point.  That was pretty much where we remained until we
moved back into the area.
     Q.   After the second collapse?
     A.   That's correct.  After the second collapse.
     Q.   Anything else you want to say?
     A.   After we left the river, we went back toward
Vesey Street and we all stayed on Vesey Street pretty
much for a good part of the day and then they wanted to
get an idea of who was missing and who was still
there.  They proceeded to have all the companies join
K. CRONICK
5
up and have a roll call to see who was missing and who
was still out (inaudible).  That was pretty much all I
can remember at this point.
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGUISTA:  All right.  The
     time is 11:30.  That concludes this interview.
     Thank you.

FILE NO 9110477
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER JASON MCGIMPSEY
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 18 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

MCGIMPSEY
BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA THE DATE IS JANUARY 18 2002 THE TIME IS 1045 HOURS THIS
IS BATTALION CHIEF FRANK CONGIUSTA OF THE SAFETY BATTALION OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT
IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME
JASON MCGIMPSEY
JASON IS 6TH GRADE FIREFIGHTER ASSIGNED TO LADDER 12 OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT WE ARE
AT THE QUARTERS OF LADDER 12 THIS INTERVIEW IS
REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001
JASON IN YOUR OWN WORDS PLEASE TELL US WHAT
HAPPENED THAT DAY FROM WHEN YOU GOT THE RUN TO THE FIRE
WE GOT THE RUN WE WENT OVER THERE WITH ONE EXTRA GUY WHO ENDED UP ON THE RIG THERE WE WENT
OVER DONT KNOW EXACTLY WHERE WE PARKED WHEN WE GOT THERE GOT OUT AND THEY DIDNT HAVE AN EXTRA MASK FOR ME SO HAD TO GO FIND MASK KIND OF GOT MASK TOGETHER AS WE WERE GOING IN
WHERE DID YOU FIRST REPORT
WE FIRST REPORTED TO WE WENT INTO THE BUILDING AND WE THOUGHT WE WERE IN THE SOUTH TOWER

MCGIMPSEY
BECAUSE THERE WAS CHIEF THERE THAT WANTED ALL THE OFFICERS TO REPORT TO HIM HE SAID HE DESIGNATED THE
BUILDING AS THE SOUTH TOWER SO THOUGHT IT WAS THE SOUTH TOWER AT THE TIME OUR LIEUTENANT WENT OVER THERE AND GOT OUR ASSIGNMENT TO GO TO START AT THE 14TH FLOOR AND WORK OUR WAY UP AND MAKE SURE EVERYBODY WAS CLEAR
SO WE GOT UP TO THE 14TH FLOOR STARTED TO WORK OUR WAY UP AND WE JUST GOT TO THE 19TH FLOOR WHEN
THE FIRST BUILDING COLLAPSED WE WERE YOU WERE IN THE MARRIOTT
IN THE MARRIOTT YES AT THAT POINT WE WERE
TRYING TO GET IT WAS KIND OF CHAOTIC THE LIGHTS
WENT OUT AFTER THE FIRST COLLAPSE WAS TRYING TO GET
ALL MY GEAR TOGETHER AND SOMEBODY YELLED OUT JUST FORGET EVERYTHING JUST GO DOWN JUST GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE GO GO SO EVERYBODY JUST KIND OF HIGH
TAILED DOWNSTAIRS TRYING TO GET EVERYBODY TOGETHER
WERE YOU WITH ANY OTHER UNITS OR YOU WERE JUST LADDER 12
THERE WERE OTHER PEOPLE THAT WERE WITH US BUT DIDNT KNOW WHO THEY WERE OR HOW THEY ENDED UP
THERE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT WE GOT DOWN TO ABOUT THE FIFTH FLOOR WE COULDNT GET DOWN ANY FURTHER THERE

MCGIMPSEY
WAS DEBRIS THERE SO WE WERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET OUT OF THERE WE TOOK LIKE CORNER ROOM AND THERE WAS ANOTHER COMPANY THAT WAS WITH US BUT DONT REMEMBER WHICH COMPANY IT WAS WE WERE TRYING TO
FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET OUT OF THERE
WE WERE GOING TO HAVE TO SINGLE SIGN OUT THE
WINDOW BUT THE ROPE WAS ON THE 19TH FLOOR WE WERE THINKING ABOUT USING HOSE LINE AND WE DECIDED THAT
WASNT SUCH GOOD IDEA SO THEY SAID THAT SOMEBODY HAS
GOT TO GO UP AND GET THE ROPE
INITIALLY WAS GOING TO GET IT BECAUSE
BROUGHT THE ROPE SO ANOTHER GUY WAS THE JUNIOR MAN SO THEY WOULDNT LET ME DO THAT ANOTHER GUY STEPPED UP AND SAID HE WAS GOING TO GET IT WAS
GOING TO GO WITH HIM AND THE OFFICER SAID TO STAY
HERE WE ARE GOING TO GO UP AND GET IT THE TWO WENT
UP TO GET THE ROPE AS THEY WERE GOING UP WHO IS THIS LIEUTENANT PETTI
LIEUTENANT PETTI AND ANGEL JUARBE THEY WENT
TO GET THE ROPE AND WE STAYED TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WE WERE DOING TRIED TO GET IN TOUCH WITH THE COMMAND POST WE FORGOT BEFORE WE WENT IN THERE THEY SWITCHED US TO CHANNEL AND JUST BECAUSE OF EVERYTHING GOING
ON NOBODY THOUGHT TO GO BACK TO CHANNEL WE WERE

MCGIMPSEY
TRYING TO GET THE COMMAND POST THERE WAS NO ANSWER WE WERE TRYING TO GET ANYBODY TO REALIZE THERE WAS NO
ANSWER
THEY HAD MAYDAY COME IN FOR GUY FROM TRUCK BRENNAN FROM TRUCK
WERE YOU AWARE THAT THE SOUTH TOWER HAD
COLLAPSED
WE DIDNT KNOW ACTUALLY WHAT WAS GOING ON WE WERENT SURE IF THOSE NOISES WERE SOUNDED LIKE
ANOTHER PLANE BOMB SOMETHING LIKE THAT BUT IT
JUST WAS BIG WE DIDNT REALLY KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON
BECAUSE WE WERE INSIDE THE BUILDING AND THEN WALKING AROUND WE KNEW IT WAS BAD JUST FROM LOOKING OUT WE COULD SEE JUST FROM OUT THE WINDOWS AND EVERYTHING
BUT AS THEY WENT UP WE FOUND WAY OUT THROUGH THE DEBRIS DOWN TO THE NEXT FLOOR DOWN SO WE WERE EVERYBODY STARTED TO GO DOWN
AS THEY WERE GOING DOWN ONE OF THE GUYS WANTED TO WAIT FOR THEM HE ACTUALLY BEFORE WE
STARTED DOWN THE OTHER GUYS RADIOED BACK THEY GOT
THE ROPE BELIEVE THINK THEY GOT THE ROPE BUT THEY WERE GOING TO GO AFTER THE GUY WITH THE MAYDAY

MCGIMPSEY
EVERYBODY WAS GOING DOWN TO THE FOURTH FLOOR ONE OF THE OTHER GUYS MIKE MULLAN WAS GOING TO GO UP AND SEE TO HELP THEM OUT
DID THE GUY WHO GAVE THE MAYDAY DID HE SAY WHERE HE WAS
CANT REMEMBER IF HE DID OR NOT
MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY NOBODY WAS ANSWERING SO THATS JUST
THE WAY
WAS JUST CURIOUS
THEY WENT TO TRY AND FIND HIM AS MIKE WAS
GOING BACK UP WANTED TO GO WITH MIKE AND ONE OF THE SENIOR GUYS HE TOLD ME TO STAY NEXT TO HIM THE WHOLE TIME WENT UP TO HIM SAID LOOK MAYBE SHOULD GO WITH MIKE HE SAID NO JUST STAY WITH ME AND HE WENT DOWN AND GUESS IT HAPPENED THE FIRST COLLAPSE
DIDNT SEE THERE WAS COUPLE OF CIVILIANS THAT THEY FOUND SO THEY WENT DOWN AND JUST DIDNT WANT TO LEAVE MIKE WENT TO GO WITH MIKE
SO TOLD MIKE WAS GOING TO GO WITH HIM AND MIKE ORDERED ME TO GO DOWNSTAIRS AND JUST FROM THAT
TIME FROM THE TOP OF THE STAIRS TO THE BOTTOM GOT TO

MCGIMPSEY
THE FOURTH FLOOR AND THE SECOND BUILDING HAD
ABOVE OUR FLOOR WAS LOST IN THE CLOUD THOSE THREE GUYS THEY WERE LOST IN THE CLOUD
TOO
FROM THAT POINT EVERYTHING JUST TURNED
BLACK THOUGHT WE WERE BURIED AT FIRST SO MASKED UP AT FIRST BECAUSE DONT KNOW IF IT WOULD BE IT
WAS JUST EVERYTHING JUST TURNED BLACK SO THOUGHT
WAS BURIED THE SECOND COLLAPSE WAS REALLY BAD BECAUSE
THE WHOLE BUILDING REALLY SHOOK AND THE NOISE IT WAS IT SOUNDED LIKE IT WAS ANOTHER PLANE WAS
WAITING FOR THE FUSELAGE TO COME IN IT WAS SO LOUD SO AFTER THAT SMOKE THE BLACK STARTED
LIFTING AND THE LIGHT STARTED COMING THROUGH THE
COLLAPSE HAD RIPPED APART THE BACK WALL OF THE STAIRWELL WE WERE ON SO WE WERE KIND OF LIKE ON
LEDGE OF DEBRIS LOOKING OUT ONCE EVERYTHING CLEARED
WE WERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET OUT THATS WHEN SAW THOSE THREE CIVILIANS WERE WITH US
WE WERE ON THE LEDGE WE WERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET OUT THERE WAS BEAM THAT WAS LEANING AGAINST AN BEAM THAT WAS LEANING AGAINST THE
BUILDING SO YELLED OUT TO EVERYBODY THAT WE GOT AN BEAM HERE NOT EVERYBODY HEARD ME SO THE GUYS THAT
COLLAPSED EVERYTHING
UP

MCGIMPSEY
HEARD ME WENT OVER TO THE HEAM AND WE BROUGHT ONE CIVILIAN DOWN WE WENT DOWN THE BEAM IT WAS REALLY
WEIRD BECAUSE AT THE BOTTOM THERE WAS NOBODY AROUND AND THEN ONCE YOU STARTED WALKING YOU KIND OF ENDED UP LIKE THERE WAS NOBODY SO WE JUST KIND OF WALKED OUT
WE ALL KIND OF GOT SEPARATED IN THE DEBRIS WENT OUT WITH THREE GUYS AND DOWN THE BEAM AND WE
ENDED UP MEETING UP ON THE WEST SIDE BY THE WATER WHAT HAPPENED TO THE OTHER TWO CIVILIANS
KNOW WE BROUGHT THE ONE DOWN AND THE OTHER ONES MUST HAVE BEEN THE OTHER ONES STAYED WITH THE OTHER GUYS
THE OTHER TWO IT
GOT CONFUSING REALLY AFTER THE SECOND COLLAPSE IT REALLY GOT CONFUSING
AND IT JUST GOT THERE WAS SO MUCH GOING ON THE OTHER GUYS DIDNT EVEN COME WITH US THEY MIGHT HAVE TAKEN DIFFERENT WAY TO GET DOWN KNOW ONE OF THE GUYS ACTUALLY WE WERENT EVEN SURE OF ACCOUNTABILITY WHERE EVERYBODY WAS AND
KNOW AFTERWARDS EVERYBODY THOUGHT THAT WAS STILL WITH
MIKE SO IT WAS KIND OF CONFUSING AFTER THAT
WE CAME BACK WE WERE ON THE WEST SIDE
THERE WE HAD LITTLE FIRE DEPARTMENT BOAT PICK US
UP TWO MAN BOAT THEY BROUGHT US OVER TO THE JERSEY SIDE KIND OF GOT MY BEARINGS OVER THERE MADE

MCGIMPSEY
COUPLE OF CALLS SEE IF EVERYBODY WAS OKAY THEN ONCE
GOT MY BEARINGS TOGETHER HOPPED ON BOAT AND CAME BACK
WENT BACK TO THE MANHATTAN SIDE THE OTHER TWO GUYS KIND OF JUST HUNG OUT BACK ON THE JERSEY
SIDE WHEN GOT BACK THERE WAS TRYING TO FIND
HAD BEEN CALLING IN TRYING TO FIND WAS CALLING
THE LIEUTENANT AND ALL THE GUYS WASNT SURE ABOUT TRYING TO GET IN TOUCH WITH THEM COULDNT GET TOUCH IN TOUCH WITH THEM WAS LOOKING FOR ANYBODY IN THE COMPANY TRYING TO FIND ANYONE WITH THE COMPANY TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE GUYS
THE COMPANY TOLD US THEY THOUGHT BECAUSE THE SENIOR GUY THAT HAD ME THE WHOLE TIME AFTER THE SECOND COLLAPSE HE DIDNT HEAR ME YELL TO EVERYBODY FOR THE BEAM GUESS HE WENT DOWN AT THE TIME DIDNT KNOW EVERYBODY THOUGHT EVERYBODY HEARD HE
THOUGHT THAT WAS UPSTAIRS WITH MIKE STILL SO
TRIED TO FIND HIM NOW FOUND HIM JUST KIND OF GOT EVERYBODY TOGETHER EVERYBODY FIGURED OUT WHERE EVERYBODY WAS AT WE HAD ACCOUNTABILITY NOW TOLD
THEM THE GUYS THAT WERE ON THE JERSEY SIDE THEN
ENDED UP TRYING TO STAY STAYED WITH THE COMPANY FOR WHILE BUT MY EYES GOT REALLY BAD AFTER THAT

MCGIMPSEY
KEPT FLUSHING THEM AND TRIED TO STAY AS LONG AS COULD BUT THEY PUT ME IN THE HOSPITAL THAT
WAS IT
ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO ADD
THATS ALL CAN THINK OF RIGHT NOW BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA THANK YOU VERY
MUCH APPRECIATE YOUR HELP IM TRYING TO PUT THIS THING TOGETHER ITS 11 OCLOCK THATS THE
END OF THIS INTERVIEW
10

FILE NO 9110478
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW PARAMEDIC PHILLIP ASHBY
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 22 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

ASHBY
MR MCCOURT TODAYS DATE IS JANUARY 22 2002 MY NAME IS TOM MCCOURT FROM THE NEW YORK
CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT CURRENTLY IM INTERVIEWING PARAMEDIC PHILLIP ASHBY FROM DIVISION
CAN YOU JUST IDENTIFY YOURSELF PLEASE PARAMEDIC PHILLIP ASHBY DIVISION
MEDICATION COORDINATOR
PARAMEDIC ASHBY CAN YOU TELL ME THE EVENTS
THAT TRANSPIRED FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON SEPTEMBER 11 2001
OKAY AT APPROXIMATELY IT APPEARS TO BE BETWEEN 814 HOURS AND 830 HOURS RESPONDED FROM QUEENS
TO LOWER MANHATTAN FOR PLANE INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER GOT THERE
WHO WERE YOU WORKING WITH
MYSELF PARKED MY VEHICLE ON WHAT APPEARS TO BE FROM THIS MAP BROADWAY BETWEEN DEY STREET AND
FULTON STREET RAN DOWN FULTON STREET WHERE
MET THE WHAT THINK WAS THE FIRST
IMMEDIATELY
TRIAGE STAGING AREA FOR THAT OPERATION
MET THE NOW CAPTAIN OLSZEWSKI LIEUTENANT
DAVILA WHO ELSE WAS THERE BILL
LIEUTENANT BILL MELARANGO AND NUMBER OF EMS
PERSONNEL WE WERE DOING TRIAGE IN THAT AREA IN FRONT
MELARANGO

ASHBY
OF THE MILLENNIUM HOTEL ACTUALLY AT THE CORNER OF FULTON AND CHURCH
PATIENTS PROBABLY TRIAGING
WE WERE DOING TRIAGE TREATING NUMBER OF ITS HARD TO COUNT NOW MAYBE GUESS
SAY ALTOGETHER MAYBE 40 50 PATIENTS JUST
WHAT WERE YOU SEEING
SEEING LOT OF BURNS COUPLE OF SUCKING CHEST WOUNDS JUST MOSTLY BURNS MULTIPLE BURNS AT
THAT TIME REALLY DIDNT SEE ANYBODY JUMPING OUT THE BUILDING ALTHOUGH HEARD PEOPLE THAT HAVE SEEN THAT
DIDNT SEE ANY BECAUSE WAS TOO BUSY WORKING
WAS LOOKING UP ACTUALLY BECAUSE THERE WAS NOTHING FOR ME IN FRONT OF ME TO SEE WHEN LOOKED UP
WHILE THERE COULDNT QUANTIFY THE TIME TO TELL YOU EXACTLY HOW LONG BUT HEARD LARGE SCREAM
THEN HEARD COUPLE MORE SCREAMS SIMULTANEOUSLY PEOPLE SCREAMING
LOOK AROUND BEEN AROUND
RECOGNIZE
DIDNT
PEOPLE SCREAMING
AND JUST RAN DIDNT JUST RAN BECAUSE YOU HAVE
THESE BUILDINGS
REAL SCREAMS FROM FAKE SCREAM AND YOU
REALIZE SOMETHING THAT IF SOMEBODY IS SCREAMING THAT HARD ITS SOMETHING COMING OUT OF THE LOWER ABDOMEN
AS LONG AS HAVE
YOU

ASHBY
THAT YOU JUST CANT FAKE ITS JUST SCARED TO DEATH JUST TOOK OFF
WHICH WAY DID YOU RUN
RAN UP FULTON STREET STAYED CLOSE TO WHAT
WOULD BE CONSIDERED THE SOUTH SIDE IF YOU WILL ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF FULTON STREET IF YOU ARE GOING EAST ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF FULTON STREET NEXT TO THE MILLENNIUM THATS WHEN TURNED AROUND AND SAW THE BUILDING COLLAPSING
RUN
YOU SAW IT
COLLAPSING
RIGHT WELL ABOUT STRIDES UNTIL
ACTUALLY TURNED AROUND TO SEE WHAT WAS ACTUALLY
RUNNING FROM AFTER THE FACT NOT TRYING TO GET
STOP MAKING SURE THAT WASNT RUNNING FROM NOTHING AT ALL THAT WAS RUNNING FROM SOMETHING LOOKED UP AND SAW THE BUILDING LEAN OVER AND THATS ALL SAW
JUST TURNED BACK AROUND AND TRIED TO RUN EVEN FASTER BUT STOPPED BECAUSE WHERE WAS RUNNING TO THE PLUME
OF SMOKE HAD ALREADY ENGULFED BROADWAY GOING NORTH SO YOU WERE RUNNING INTO IT OR
WAS RUNNING TOWARDS BROADWAY BUT IT MADE NO SENSE BECAUSE ITS LIKE WAVE LIKE WATER GOING
DOWN CANYON THAT PLUME OF SMOKE WAS JUST ALREADY COMING DOWN BROADWAY JUST YOU KNOW SAID JUST

ASHBY
LOOKED AND SAID THAT WOULDNT MAKE MUCH
STOPPED
SENSE IM GOING TO RUN INTO WHAT IM TRYING TO RUN FROM TURNED AROUND AND THE PLUME OF SMOKE JUST AS HIGH AS THIS BUILDING WAS COMING AT ME FROM THE CORNER OF CHURCH AND FULTON
BEHIND YOU
RIGHT JUST COMING AROUND THE CORNER OF CHURCH AND FULTON SO JUST TRIED TO RUN INTO THE BUILDING TO THE RIGHT THINK WAS BANK OR SOMETHING RIGHT ON THE CORNER THERE IM NOT TOO SURE BUT THE DOORS WERE LOCKED SO REALLY TRIED TO GO TO THE LEFT BIT BY THAT TIME IT GOT SO DARK AND
WAS SO OVERCOME BY THE SOOT AND THE PULVERIZED ROCK THAT JUST LAID NEXT TO THE SUBWAY STATION WHICH
WOULD BE RIGHT HERE RIGHT THERE IS THE SUBWAY STATION
WHERE IS THAT INDICATE IT
ON FULTON AND IN THE MIDDLE OF ABOUT THIRD OF THE WAY UP FULTON IF YOU ARE COMING FROM CHURCH ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE
HEADING TOWARDS BROADWAY
HEADING TOWARDS BROADWAY STOPPED BY THE SUBWAY STATION NOT WANTING TO GO DOWN IN THE TRAIN STATION BECAUSE REALIZED THAT IF WAS GOING TO DIE

ASHBY
WANTED TO DIE ABOVE GROUND AS OPPOSED TO BEING
TRAPPED AND SUFFERING AND KNOWING THAT WAS GOING TO DIE ANYWAY WANTED IT TO BE QUICK DIDNT WANT TO
GO DOWN TO THE SUBWAY STATION AND WAIT TO DIE DOWN THERE BECAUSE REALLY DID THINK THAT WAS GOING TO DIE THERE WAS NO TWO WAYS ABOUT IT COULDNT SEE
ANYTHING
ABOUT TWO OR THREE MINUTES OF SUCKING IN WHAT WOULD CONSIDER TO BE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT
WOULD BE SOMETHING LIKE THROWING IN YOUR MOUTH POWDER AND JUST TRYING TO BREATHE AS SOMEBODY THROWS POWDER IN YOUR MOUTH THATS ESSENTIALLY WHAT IT FELT LIKE TO ME MEAN THERE WAS NO WAY YOU CAN SALIVATE ENOUGH TO GET RID OF IT IT JUST KEPT ON COMING DOWN
YOURSELF
CANT SEE
WAS THERE ANYBODY WITH YOU OR YOU WERE ALL BY
BY MYSELF BY MYSELF
NO OTHER CIVILIANS AROUND
NO AS IM LAYING THERE READY TO DIE ANYTHING NOW BECAUSE OF MY EYES SOMEBODY AND THEY PULLED ME UP GUESS SOMEONE JUST
PULLED ME
CAME OUT OF THE MILLENNIUM HOTEL OR EVEN THE BANK
ACROSS THE STREET AND HE IS FEELING HIS WAY BUT HE IS IN BETTER POSITION THAN WAS OBVIOUSLY BECAUSE HE

ASHBY
WAS NOT IN THE INITIAL PLUME OF SMOKE HE PULLED ME UP ON TO BROADWAY AND RIGHT BETWEEN ON BROADWAY BETWEEN
ANN AND FULTON STREET RIGHT INAUDIBLE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT OVER THERE ON THE CORNER HE PULLED ME INTO THERE
THATS WHEN WAS ABLE TO GET SOME WATER AND DUST MYSELF OFF AND ALL THAT GOOD STUFF AND REALLY JUST
CONSIDER MYSELF FORTUNATE JUST HACKING UP THE DUST
FOR LIKE AN HOUR TWO HOURS LATER MEAN YOU KNOW SOOT THE COLOR OF THIS TABLE HERE WHICH IS CHERRY OAK CHERRY WOOD FOR LIKE AN HOUR AND HALF ACTUALLY
MORE THE COLOR OF THAT MORE THE COLOR OF THAT
CROSS BETWEEN THESE TWO BUT WHATEVER PULVERIZED ROCK LOOKS LIKE YOU KNOW WAS COUGHING IT UP FOR ABOUT AN HOUR AND HALF
WAS THERE ANY DEBRIS FIELD THERE ALSO OR WAS IT JUST ALL OF THE SOOT AND THE DUST AND EVERYTHING
WAS THERE ACTUAL BUILDING MATERIAL THAT CAME DOWN
BY ME NO WELL LETS PUT IT LIKE THIS IF
THERE WAS COULDNT SEE IT DONT KNOW IF THERE WAS OR THERE WASNT BUT IF THERE WAS COULDNT SEE IT
ALL KNOW IS THAT THAT WAS THE ONLY THING THAT WAS IN
MY LUNGS KNOW THAT WAS LIMPING AFTER THE FACT BUT THE REASON WAS LIMPING WAS NOT BECAUSE ANYTHING

ASHBY
HIT ME BECAUSE PUSHED OFF SO HARD ON MY RIGHT LEG THAT YOU KNOW ALMOST FRACTURED THE THING THATS
WHAT THINK MEAN HAVE HEARD STORIES ABOUT
FEAR IS SOMETHING ELSE
IT REALLY MAKES YOU REALLY DO
FIGHT OR FLIGHT
EXACTLY AND YOU DONT REALLY EXAMINE IT SO
MUCH AS PUSHED UP SO HARD ON MY RIGHT LEG THAT THERE IS NO DOUBT WHICH LEG THAT HAD LEFT THE SCENE
WITH IT WAS JUST VERY REMARKABLE THING THATS IT WHAT HAPPENED AT THAT POINT AFTER THAT DID
YOU GO BACK TO THE

ASHBY
SO THOUGHT SOMEBODY LAUNCHED MISSILE FROM THE EAST RIVER OR OVER THE HUDSON TO KNOCK IT DOWN MEAN THATS WHAT IM THINKING IF THEY ARE IF THEY
ARE STILL OUT THERE TO LAUNCH ANOTHER MISSILE GOT TO GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE BECAUSE WE WERE IN WAR ZONE RIGHT EXACTLY DIDNT THINK DIDNT GO AND TRY TO FIGURE OUT MY HIGH SCHOOL PHYSICS OR MY COLLEGE CHEMISTRY TO FIGURE OUT YOU KNOW THE FIRE AND THE BRICK AND THE MELTING AND THE BOILING POINT
GOING BACK TO WHEN YOU WERE COMING DID YOU SEE THE BUILDING ON FIRE COULD YOU SEE THE STATE OF
THE BUILDING WHILE YOU WERE RESPONDING
OH YES OH YES IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS
IT WAS JUST INAUDIBLE
YOU KNEW GOING IN YOU KNEW WHAT YOU WERE
GOING IN FOR
YES KNEW PUT IT LIKE THIS WISH
KNEW WHAT WAS GOING INTO SAW WHAT WAS HAPPENING BUT IT DIDNT COMPARE TO WHAT WAS GOING INTO WHEN WAS THERE YOU KNOW THE DEVASTATION WAS JUST SOMETHING THAT BEING ON THE JOB FOR 13 YEARS AND LIKE SAID BEING IN THE LAST BOMBING AND BEING IN TRAIN DISASTERS AND EVERYTHING DISASTERS NOTHING COULD COMPARE TO WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAY NOTHING NOTHING

ASHBY
HOPE NOTHING ELSE IN MY LIFETIME ANYWAY COMES ACROSS LIKE THAT EITHER
STILL
PACE
BY THE TIME OF THE SECOND COLLAPSE WERE YOU THERE
BY THE TIME OF THE SECOND COLLAPSE WAS AT RIGHT WAS AT PACE
PACE UNIVERSITY
PACE UNIVERSITY IM TRYING TO GET OUT OF THERE AGAIN AND AS IM TRYING TO WALK TOWARDS NOT THE
BROOKLYN BRIDGE BECAUSE FIGURED THAT WOULD BE ANOTHER HISTORIC LOCATION FOR THEM TO ATTACK OR LAUNCH
MISSILE WAS TRYING TO HEAD TOWARDS THE MANHATTAN BRIDGE AND TAKE MY CHANCES THERE SO WAS AT PACE AND THEN ACTUALLY WAS WALKING TOWARDS THE BRIDGE WHEN ANOTHER BUILDING CAME DOWN AND RAN INTO PACE
BECAUSE BY NOW YOU KNOW YOU DONT NEED ANYBODY TO TELL YOU WHAT IS HAPPENING YOU KNOW EITHER
DONT KNOW IF THE SECOND BUILDING CAME DOWN BUT
KNEW SOMETHING WITH THE SAME MAGNITUDE HAPPENED AS HAPPENED WITH THE FIRST BUILDING THAT SAW RAN
INTO PACE AND YOU KNOW PEOPLE WERE CRYING AND EVERYTHING ELSE WAS JUST TRYING TO JUST SUCK WIND
YOU KNOW WENT INTO INAUDIBLE
WAS JUST BENT OVER AND TRYING TO WHERE
10

ASHBY
THEY KEEP THE FOOD WARM JUST TRYING TO GET AT LEAST SOME SEMBLANCE OF AIR INTO MY LUNGS WHICH WAS ALREADY
CONGESTED FROM ALL THE SOOT JUST BEND OVER WITH THAT
REFRIGERATION DEVICE UNDER MY NOSE YOU KNOW BECAUSE AT THAT TIME WAS JUST TRYING TO GET ANY KIND OF AIR
POSSIBLY CAN BECAUSE KNEW THAT YOU KNOW JUST FROM PHYSIOLOGY STANDPOINT EVERYTHING WAS SO THICK WITH
GOOK THEY DONT DO LUNG TRANSPLANTS SO KIND OF FIGURED WHATEVER CAN DO TO HELP IT WAS ON MY OWN
WHEN THAT SCENARIO CALMED DOWN AND LOT OF THE PLUME OF SMOKE WENT AWAY CAME OUT OF PACE
AGAIN STILL NOT KNOWING THAT THE BUILDING COLLAPSED THINKING THAT SOMEBODY LAUNCHED MISSILE AND TRYING TO GET OUT FROM AND CAME OVER THE MANHATTAN BRIDGE
AND CAME BACK HERE
TO METROTECH
METROTECH GOT TREATED AT BHS THEN WENT BACK BECAUSE THATS THE ONLY WAY FELT THAT COULD BRING SOME KIND OF CLOSURE BECAUSE NOW WAS FULLY BRIEFED ON WHAT HAPPENED
YOU KNEW WHAT HAPPENED
KNEW WHAT HAPPENED THERE WAS NO DOUBT AND
DIDNT THINK THAT GOING HOME WOULD BE THE PLACE FOR ME TO ACTUALLY BRING CLOSURE THAN COMING BACK AND
11

HOW IS
ASHBY
WITH THE RESCUE OR WHATEVER IT IS
ACTUALLY HELPING
ANYTHING THAT COULD DO WOULD SOMEHOW BRING ME BEING ABLE TO TALK TO SOMEBODY WHO WAS ACTUALLY THERE NOT SOMEBODY WHO WASNT THERE THATS NOT WHAT HELPED ME BECAUSE UNLESS YOU WERE THERE YOU JUST CANT IMAGINE
IT
THATS WHAT HAPPENED WENT BACK TO THE LOCATION SPENT ANOTHER COUPLE OF HOURS LATE AT
NIGHT AND THEN WENT HOME CAME BACK THE NEXT DAY
KNEW WAS HURTING FIGURED YOU KNOW LISTEN ALL IN ALL THERE IS NOTHING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT NOTHING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT IM WALKING STOPPED COUGHING UP THE SOOT THAT WAS IN MY LUNGS EVERYTHING ELSE IS LIKE
SAID IS PLUS WASNT HANGING OUT DANGLING ANYTHING YOU WANT TO ADD THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE
GLANCED OVER
NOTHING MEAN THE PICTURE OF ME IN NEWSWEEK THERE IS PICTURE OF ME IN NEWSWEEK
THATS IT PICTURE OF ME AND CARLOS CARLOS
YES
DO YOU KNOW WHERE CARLOS
YOUR LEG
AFTER THREE OR FOUR DAYS ITS FINE MEAN
12

ASHBY
DIDNT YOU SEE THE PICTURE THATS ME
HENDING OVER TREATING WOMAN
YOU WERE WITH CARLOS RIGHT BEFORE
WELL THATS WHAT THE PICTURE SAID DID SEE CARLOS AND KNOW CARLOS RAN INTO THE BUILDING
CANT SAY ANY OF THOSE THINGS YOU WERENT FOCUSED
RIGHT RIGHT HE WOULDNT HAVE TO GO INTO THE BUILDING TO HAVE DIED IN THERE HE COULD HAVE DIED RIGHT THERE IN THAT CORNER IT WAS NOT EXTRAORDINARY
TO DIE YOU CAN DIE RIGHT THERE IN THAT CORNER THAT PICTURE YOU KNOW PLACED HIM PHOTOGRAPHING THE WOMAN WHO HAD TAKEN OFF THAT CHAIR SHE JUST LOOKED BAD AND PUT HER ON THE CURB BUT SHE JUST LOOKED BAD MEAN SHE WAS NOT
UP EXACTLY SAW PICTURE OF HER ACTUALLY IN
TIME MAGAZINE ON THE CURB WHERE PUT HER THATS IF
IS SHE THE ONE THAT WAS ALL BLOODIED
SHES ALIVE DONT KNOW IF SHE IS EVEN ALIVE YOU DONT KNOW HER NAME
TODAY
DONT KNOW HER NAME ALL KNEW IS TOOK HER OFF THAT CHAIR PUT HER ON THE CURB BECAUSE THAT
CHAIR NEEDED SOME REAL WORK BECAUSE SHE WAS NOT AS BAD AS SHE LOOKED SHE WAS FRAIL
13

ASHBY
IS THAT WHEN YOU WERE DOING THE TRIAGE
THATS WHERE WE WERE ALL DOING THE TRIAGE ON THAT CORNER THEN THINK
LOIS WHO WAS COORDINATOR FOR BROOKLYN SAID THAT RICARDO QUINNS WIFE SAID THAT HIS HAND WAS IN THAT
PICTURE BECAUSE SHE RECOGNIZED HIS BRACELET DONT KNOW SHE ASKED ME DID SEE HIM SAID DONT KNOW COULDNT TELL YOU WHO SAW ALL SAW WERE THE PEOPLE SCREAMING AT ME WHICH WAS OLSZEWSKI BECAUSE YOU KNOW THEY WERE TELLING ME THAT LISTEN
YOU WORRY ABOUT PATIENT CARE YOU WORRY ABOUT TRIAGE AS MEDIC YOU GET INVOLVED IN PATIENT CARE NOT
TRIAGE THEY OUGHT TO BE GIVING YOU TRIAGE
THATS WHAT WAS INVOLVED IN SO THATS
ABOUT IT
ADD
RIGHT EXACTLY RIGHT
OKAY IS THAT IT ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO
THATS IT
MR MCCOURT THE TIME IS 840 THE INTERVIEW STARTED AT 825 THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW THANK YOU VERY MUCH
14
File No. 9110479
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
            EMT PETER ROSIE
   Interview Date:  January 22, 2002
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
P. ROSIE
2
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today is January 22, 2002.
     I'm Paul Radenberg, Fire Department World Trade
     Center tasks Task Force currently at EMS Battalion
     13.  The time is now 13 hundred hours.
     Q.   I'm conducting an interview with --
     A.   Peter Rosie, EMT, Battalion 13.
     Q.   This interview is being conducted regarding
the events of the morning of September 11, 2001.
Peter, you can begin.
     A.   My girlfriend woke me up and told me to turn
on the TV.  I live on Second Avenue and 9 Street.  I
saw that one of the towers was on fire, so I went up to
my roof.  Figured I would just get in the way, didn't
want to go, you know.  Then I saw the second bird hit,
so then I knew I better get busy.  Threw on my uniform,
jumped on my son's bike and went directly to Bellevue.
I was there like in 3 minutes.
          They threw a radio at me and I was on 06 Ida
with a partner.  I didn't know the guy.  Jagoda.  His
name is Jagoda.
          We took off directly from there and headed
down Second Avenue.  I remember passing my apartment.
Got on to Canal and then shot down Broadway and ended
up at City Hall Park.  That's when we had patients
P. ROSIE
3
coming towards us.  I had no idea that the tower had
came down at that time.  I thought the debris and
everything that I saw, you know, was from the fire.  So
I didn't have any visual of the tower coming down, but
apparently it was coming down, because we got there at
around 10 o'clock.
          Then with all those patients coming at us, I
was trying to triage like 5 people at the same time.  3
police officers, two female officers, I didn't know
what was wrong with them.  They were pretty
hysterical.  A male police officer with a cardiac
condition and a male with his arm badly lacerated.  He
was bleeding pretty bad.
          So I patched him up and there was a couple of
other units there.  We volunteered to take these
patients on and I'm trying to see -- so I get them on
the bus, you know, and start giving 02 to the cardiac
condition.  Everyone was pretty hysterical and I didn't
get the story because I heard collapse, but I would
never imagine that the whole tower came down.  I just
figured well, things had -- obviously -- would fall
from the tower and that's how this guy got this trauma
to his arm and he was going into shock.  I tried to
calm down the police officers as best as I can.
P. ROSIE
4
          One of the female police officers just jumped
on the stretcher, so I was holding on to the guy with
the -- he was my main concern.  He had the cardiac
condition.  I gave him O2.  There wasn't much I could
do other than that, take his blood pressure and monitor
him, but I was concerned with this guy's arm, because
it was barely attached.
          So we shot to Bellevue and when they opened
up the doors to Bellevue, just an army of people in
scrubs.  They were just terrific, you know, grabbing
people left and right, triaging them, sending them to
their respective areas.  Went back to the station,
hosed down the bus because it was a mess with the
debris and BBP, as best as we could, restocked O2 and
then shot back down.
          Then I believe we got to Church Street and
during this time -- I mean I have thought about it, you
know, during this time, when we first -- that first
time, when the first -- when the tower went down, I had
no idea and we were off the site before I got any
details, so I figured the second tower had collapsed as
we were returning back to Bellevue with this person
-- load of patients.
          Then the second tower had collapsed by the
P. ROSIE
5
time we arrived at Church Street and Barclay.  I
remember, because I believe this is World Trade Center
7.  This is tower 7 here?
     Q.   That's the Post Office.  7 is -- yes.
     A.   7.  So it was right here, Barclay.  There was
much more debris.
     Q.   Barclay and West?
     A.   Barclay and West, yes.  It was just dead
quiet.  At that time there was pretty much -- out of
control was -- everyone was just trying to get their
bearings at that time, you know.  So the Lieutenants I
did run into, he tried to get everyone around and take
names.  That's the best thing we would could do is just
get a good idea of who you had with you right there.
          But then we had -- there was an individual
down there who seemed like he was just like wandering
around and so I went and got him and he just -- he was
out of it.  He had breathed in a lot of the dust and --
I guess he was an EMT, but he was kind of like on his
own type of thing.  He had his kit bag, you know, and
his badge, but more or less, you know, he got out of
there.  He was pretty much out of it.
     Q.   That was down by Vesey?
     A.   Vesey and West.  So we transported him.  We
P. ROSIE
6
transported him to Beth Israel.  Hosed down the bus
again and made our way back to tower 7.  We were here,
then we were on this street.  What is this?  We were on
Murray Street and --
     Q.   Let me get my other map.
     A.   Greenwich.  Murray Street and Greenwich.
Murray Street and Greenwich.  The World Trade Center 7
had collapsed at that point.  I can remember asking,
because we had visuals before we left and then I had
asked somebody, who was it, is it going to collapse and
they said probably tomorrow.  But on our return it had
gone down too.
          At that point we made our way to the staging
area, you know, and became the -- what do you call us,
we were the unit next to the -- what is the trailer
where they take --
     Q.   The MERV?
     A.   The MERV.  We were the hot something.
     Q.   Okay.  The hot unit.
     A.   The hot unit, right.  We were just
transporting firemen back and forth all day.  That was
it.
     Q.   Okay.  When you got up to the Bellevue
station, do you remember about what time you got there?
P. ROSIE
A.   You mean the first time?
7
     Q.   Yes, yes.  You left your apartment and went
to Bellevue.
     A.   I was at Bellevue at 9:40.
     Q.   Okay.  When you came down over by City Hall
Park, you had said that there were some other units
there?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Do you remember --
     A.   I believe.
     Q.  -- who they were?
     A.   I believe it was a Presbyterian unit.
     Q.   Cornell?
     A.   That's it, and a Hatzolah unit.
     Q.   Okay.  The fellow with the arm injury, he was
a civilian?
     A.   Yes.  I actually got his picture in Time
magazine.  Not Time, but People magazine.  It was
funny, because I went to Barnes and Noble.  I don't
mean to get off track here, but it was pretty amazing
to see my picture in there and the guy who I
transported.  If anything, during that -- if I think I
made a difference, it was maybe that first run, you
know.  I'm sure I made a difference all day, but that
P. ROSIE
8
guy, he was pretty beat up.
     Q.   So from City Hall Park you went back up to
Bellevue?
     A.   Bellevue.
     Q.   You came back on the next trip, your next
trip in, and you were on like West and Barclay?
     A.   West and Barclay and then we were -- West and
Barclay and we might have -- West and Barclay, not
Barclay.  Sorry.  I was wrong.  That's too close,
because this was up in flames.  Okay.  So it was Murray
Street.
     Q.   Murray Street?
     A.   Murray and Barclay.  No.  Murray and -- what
was this again?
     Q.   This is Greenwich.
     A.   Murray and Greenwich, and from there everyone
was trying to get their bearings, trying to figure
out.  At this point we didn't know where the staging
area was, the main staging area.
     Q.   Right.  The EMT that you were talking about
that was by himself with the tech bag, was he a Fire
Department employee?
     A.   No, I believe he was private, because he had
that type of private badge, you know, the blue, the
P. ROSIE
9
fancy blue one, looks like a detective.  He just had a
bag full of collars and I wouldn't take him for city.
     Q.   When you got up here --
     A.   Oh, when I got here, then I ran into my
partner Jason Charles.  I believe you are going to have
an interview with him.
Q. Yes.
     A.   I looked and I saw a fireman and -- but it
was Jason wearing a fireman's jacket.  Have you spoken
with him?
Q. I haven't.
     A.   I saw him and I was really happy to see him,
you know.
     Q.   He is on our list.
     A.   Yes, I saw him.  He has quite a story to
tell.  I saw him and he gave me some aspirin, because
breathing all this stuff I got a pounding headache, you
know.
     Q.   Do you remember who else was down in this
area of Greenwich and Murray from EMS or the Fire
Department?
     A.   A Lieutenant Murphy.
     Q.   EMS Lieutenant?
     A.   Yes.  Lieutenant Murphy.
P. ROSIE
10
     Q.   Would you know where he is stationed or ever
see him before?
     A.   No, no.  I remember his name, because later
on that night, it must have been 2:30, he grabbed me
and he said that he had 8 New Jersey busses, bright
shiny busses from New Jersey.  We are in the staging
area and he wants them at Battalion 4.  You know, with
the lights and the road block and all this shit that's
going on, I'm like okay, let me get my partner.  He is
driving.  No -- forget it, you take them.  So like, I
remember, what is your name sir?  Because here I'm with
8 busses and I've got to get them to Battalion 4.
          I mean I live down there, but getting through
this maze.  So I was pretty stressed out by then,
because I'm thinking I'm responsible for all these.
I'm on my own in this bus and to get them to 4.  Please
let me find -- I was looking for Canal.  Not Canal,
Houston.  I found Houston.  I knew what to do from
there and I got those busses at 4.  I'm like here you
go, thank you.
          Now what do I do.  Do I go back to Bellevue.
Do I go back to the staging area and try to find my
partner.  So I said shit, just go back to where I came
from.  Just getting back was a bit of a challenge, you
P. ROSIE
11
know.  On my own I think, like I'm listening to the
radio and trying to get the big picture of what really
occurred.  It was weird because I didn't really have
the full story, you know what I mean.
          I got back and I found him.  Once again we
were -- then for the rest of the night we were there.
I'm glad I got my partner back, because he would have
wondered where the hell is my partner.  He would have
been stuck down there.  I'm just glad that I was given
that task and I completed the task and I got back and I
found my partner and that was good.
          I know you are more interested about what the
occurrences at around 11 o'clock.  So, sorry.
     Q.   No problem.  No problem.  Aside from
Lieutenant Murphy, when you say your partner, you are
talking about Jagoda?
     A.   Jagoda.  He is Battalion 8.  He is Bellevue.
     Q.   Anybody else down in that area that you
remember seeing?
     A.   Around 11 o'clock?
     Q.   Yes.  Well, when you were back here at
Greenwich and Murray?
     A.   No.
     Q.   He was the only one?
12
recognized and that was -- I don't know what time that
was.  That was like on my third return back from
transporting.  I saw him you know.  I couldn't give you
any names.  Really there wasn't that many EMS, you
know.  Hatzolah.  I saw a couple of Hatzolah units and
a New York Cornell, but I didn't see much Fire
Department EMS.
          I think because -- I believe there were
mainly a lot more around the staging area, weren't
there?  You probably have a lot more knowledge than I
do.
Q. Yes.
     A.   Compared to -- because we came in from this
direction, at a fairly late period, you know.  I
think.  So much I'm sure had gone on before all this
from the time that the first bird hit and people were
trying to get organized and here we are whizzing down
just before it collapses, you know, from this
direction.  Didn't see much activity here, you know.
Except for the Hatzolah and the Cornell.
          Then it was so good to get to the staging
P. ROSIE
A.   He was the only one.
Q.   How about?
A.   Jason Charles is the only one that I
P. ROSIE
13
area eventually and see more EMS and ambulance --
what's going on.
     Q.   Right, right.
     A.   I was like, I was trying to do ACRs on all
these people, do you know what I mean?  I was like
damn.  There was --  you couldn't talk on the radio.
     Q.   The radios were down or just too much?
     A.   Too much traffic.  I figured and I'm sure my
partner figured, if you don't have anything really
important to say, don't say it.
     Q.   Okay.  Anything from that morning that sticks
in your head particularly or any comment you would like
to add?
     A.   On a personal note?
     Q.   Yes.
     A.   Well, I was in the British Army for six years
and I had two tours in northern Ireland.  I had been
familiar with explosions going on in Belfast.  I was an
NCO.  It was weird because I thought I had left all
that behind me.  That was something that kind of no one
knows about.  There is no way you could really explain
it to anyone unless you were actually there, you know.
          Then this -- it's really horrifying over
there, because it's not that big and it's more
P. ROSIE
14
intimate.  There is a lot more to deal with.  There is
a lot more you can deal with compared to something like
this.  Then for this shit to happen, it was like kind
of odd like -- I think I was a little bit more -- I was
prepared.  I was pretty focused.  I stayed focused.
          But it was strange because I was still not
really awake.  I jumped on my son's bike and got on
that unit.  Here's your partner.  Here's your radio.
Boom.  We are going down and it was weird because we
had such a clear avenue of approach.  The police were
just waving us on and we were shooting down there and
seeing everyone come the opposite direction, so it was
very surreal.  It was like what's going on.  It was
like let's get there you know.
          It was actually a good feeling, you know,
that traffic control was so good.  That people were
being -- people were leaving the area and we did have a
good avenue of approach.  We were able to get there at
a good speed.  So it was good.  We got there and I'm
sure that first load of people, the police officers and
the guy were happy to see us.  I was just pretty proud
of everyone you know.
          So that's it.
          MR. RADENBERG:  Okay.  Time is now 1320
     hours.  The interview is concluded.

FILE NO 9110480
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT MELVIN RODRIGUEZ
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 22 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

RODRIGUEZ
MR ECCLESTON DATE IS
22ND 2002 THE TIME IS 2212 HOURS THIS IS CHRISTOPHER ECCIESTON OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE AM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME TITLE SHIELD NUMBER AND ASSIGNED COMMAND AREA OF THE FIRE
DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK EMT RODRIGUEZ MY NAME IS MELVIN
RODRIGUEZ MY BADGE NUMBER IS 2267 IM AN EMT FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT AND MY UNIT WAS
15 DAVID TOUR THAT DAY
MELVIN WERE YOU ASSIGNED TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER DISASTER ON 911
YES WAS
IN YOUR OWN WORDS COULD YOU PLEASE TELL
ME THE DETAILS OF THE DAY
THE DETAILS OF THE DAY WERE WAS
SUPPOSED TO GO HOME AT SOMEBODY BANGED IN SICK HAD TO WORK OVERTIME WORKED THE UNIT
CALLED 15 DAVID WE HAD JOB WE TOOK SOMEBODY TO OUR LADY OF MERCY NOTICED THERE WAS
SOMETHING WRONG WHEN GOT TO THE HOSPITAL AND
JANUARY

RODRIGUEZ
TH WAS IN TH
EVERYBODY WAS IN FRONT OF THE TVS IN THE
EMERGENCY ROOM OUTSIDE IN THE LOBBY
SOMEBODY IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM SAID
YOUR LIEUTENANT ANGEL AVILA WANTS TO SPEAK TO
YOU PICKED UP THE PHONE AND HE SAYS WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU DOING NEED YOU YOUVE GOT TO BE 63 TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER PLANE HIT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
SO WE GOT OUR PATIENT SIGNED FOR BY THE NURSE AND WE WENT DOWN TO THE HENRY HUDSON
PARKWAY AND WENT ALL THE WAY DOWN TO MANHATTAN
WHEN YOU WERE DRIVING ON THE PARKWAY COULD YOU SEE THE TRADE CENTER AT ALL
WASNT DRIVING MY PARTNER WAS
DRIVING WAS TECHING THAT DAY AS WE PULLED UP TO MANHATTAN THEY TOLD US TO SWITCH TO THE
MANHATTAN FREQUENCY BECAUSE WE WERE ON CITYWIDE AS WE PULLED UP WE HEARD LOT OF SCREAMING ON
THE RADIO SOMEBODY WAS CALLING MAYDAY MAYDAY THE FIRST ONE JUST WENT DOWN
WE WERE DOWN BY STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL THERE WAS LOT OF DUST EVERYBODY WAS PICKING
UP INJURED PEOPLE
COVERED IN WHITE SOOT WE HAD

RODRIGUEZ
WE HAD FIREMAN THAT WAS COVERED IN SOOT
SCREAMING HE OPENED HIS EYES AND YOU COULDNT EVEN SEE HIS EYEBALLS BECAUSE HE WAS SO COVERED IN SO MUCH SOOT WE TOOK HIM TO THE WALKING WOUNDED WE ROLLED HIM UP THERE WAS RAMP THERE AN ELEVATOR WE TOOK HIM UP THERE
WE WENT BACK DOWN TO OUR BUS AND THE
LIEUTENANTS HAD US STAY BY STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL
WHEN YOU SAY WE WHO ARE YOU REFERRING TO YOUR PARTNER FOR THE DAY
MY PARTNER WAS DWIGHT SCOTT DWIGHT SCOTT
HE WAS HERE IN THE 15TH BATTALION
YES THATS HIS REGULAR UNIT THATS HIS REGULAR UNIT
YES
WHEN YOU ARRIVED ON THE SCENE
INITIALLY CAN YOU JUST INDICATE ON THE MAP THAT
PROVIDED FOR YOU APPROXIMATELY WHERE YOU PARKED YOUR VEHICLE
WE WERE ON THE WEST SIDE IT
TH WAS
FIREMAN
ACROSS THE STREET BY STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL AND
WALKING FACILITY
MIGHT

RODRIGUEZ
HAVE BARCLAY MURRAY IT WAS AR THERE BY VESEY PRETTY CLOSE THERE OR MAYBE
HAVE BEEN IT IM NOT SURE OF THE
BARCLAY MIGHT
STREET IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN BARCLAY BARCLAY
MURRAY OR VESEY IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN THINK
IT WAS BARCLAY YES BECAUSE IT WAS RIGHT BY THE STUYVESANT WHEREVER THE STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL IS IT WAS ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE STUYVESANT
SCHOOL
OKAY COULD YOU JUST INDICATE WITH
NUMBER APPROXIMATELY WHERE YOU THINK YOU PARKED THE VEHICLE
HIGH
FIREFIGHTER
THINK WAS PARKED AROUND HERE THANK YOU
SO NOW YOU ARRIVED AND THIS
WE ARRIVED WE GOT THIS FIREFIGHTER
WE WHEELED HIM UPSTAIRS THEY HAD
THERE IT WASNT STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL IT WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY
WE TOOK HIM UP THERE AND OTHER PEOPLE IN THE MEDICAL ROLE TOOK CARE OF HIM WE WENT
BACK DOWNSTAIRS AND EVERYBODY WAS TRYING TO USE THE PHONES TO CALL HOME AND SAY THEY WERE OKAY
GYM UP

IT WAS 1IK 1IN
DOWN COMMUNICATIONS WERE DOWN
RODRIGUEZ
TH
ALL TH PH
WE HAD NO IDEA IT WAS TWO PLANES WE HAD NO IDEA IT WAS TERRORISM THERE WAS NO
COMMUNICATION WE JUST KNEW THERE WAS ONE PLANE THERE WAS STILL ONE WORLD TRADE CENTER BUILDING
STANDING AND IT WAS ON FIRE
WHEN WE FINISHED WITH THE FIREMAN WE
WERE AROUND BARCLAY OR MURRAY THEY MIGHT HAVE MADE US MOVE BACK THERE WAS GAS SCARE
DONT REMEMBER THE TIME FRAME BUT EVERYBODY STARTED SAYING KEEP YOUR AMBULANCES AWAY FROM MANHOLE COVERS AND SEWERS SOMEBODY YELLED EVERYBODY RUN FOR LIVES THERES GAS MAIN LEAK THERE MIGHT BE AN EXPLOSION
GOT SEPARATED FROM MY PARTNER BECAUSE EVERYBODY WAS RUNNING AN AMBULANCE WENT BY WITH BROKEN WINDOWS AND THE BACK DOORS OPEN JUMPED IN THE BACK OF THAT AMBULANCE WE ENDED UP GOING
BY THE CHELSEA PIERS
REALLY DONT REMEMBER IF THAT WAS
WHEN THE SECOND ONE CAME DOWN BECAUSE TO BE HONEST WITH YOU IT WAS SO CHAOTIC JUST
REMEMBER LITTLE BITS AND PIECES OF THAT DAY

RODRIGUEZ
IN
REMEMBER THE SECOND ONE COMING DOWN
AND WE JUST STOOD THERE IN SHOCK WE WERE LIKE
OH MY GOD EVERYBODY SAID OH MY GOD WE HAD NO IDEA THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN BECAUSE WE DIDNT KNOW THERE WERE TWO PLANES ME AND MY PARTNER DIDNT DONT KNOW ABOUT EVERYBODY
ELSE
THERE WAS NO COMMUNICATIONS DIDNT FIND OUT THERE WERE TWO PLANES AND THIS WAS
TERRORIST ACT UNTIL 18 HOURS LATER WHEN
HOME AND PUT THE TV ON AND MY WIFE BECAUSE
CALLED MY WIFE AS WE PULLED INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER TOLD HER WHAT HAPPENED LOVE YOU
PLANE HIT SHE PUT THE TV ON AND THEN SHE FOUND OUT IT WAS TWO PLANES AFTER CALLING HER SHE SAW THE SECOND ONE SHE SAW THEM COMING DOWN SO THEY THOUGHT WAS KILLED
SO WHEN GOT HOME SHE WAS CRYING AND WE HUGGED EACH OTHER FINALLY TOOK SHOWER BECAUSE HAD ALL THIS WHITE STUFF OVER ME
PUT THE TV ON AND REALIZED OH MY GOD THIS IS TERRORISM WERE AT WAR THOUGHT THIS WAS AN ACCIDENT
GOT

RODRIGUEZ
KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON THATS WHY THEY SAY OH THEY WERE STUPID NOBODY SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE THEY SHOULD HAVE KNOWN NOBODY KNEW NOTHING WE WERE JUST BUSY TRYING TO HELP PEOPLE DIDNT KNOW IT WAS TWO PLANES TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST WITH YOU WE STILL WOULD HAVE HELPED THEM
BECAUSE ITS ONLY NATURAL TO WANT TO HELP PEOPLE
THAT WAS THE DEVASTATING THING ABOUT THIS WHEN THE SECOND ONE WENT DOWN WE WENT IN
YOURE EXPECTING HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE TO BE
INJURED YOURE GOING TO HELP PEOPLE IT WAS DEAD SILENCE EVERYBODY WAS DEAD THERE WAS NOTHING BUT BODY PARTS ALL OVER THE PLACE IT WAS HELPLESS FEELING YOURE ALL PUMPED UP TO SAVE THE WORLD AND THERES NOBODY TO BE SAVED EVERYBODYS DEAD
THATS REALLY WHAT THE SHOCKING PART ABOUT ALL OF THIS WAS THE DEAD SILENCE THE
HELPLESSNESS THE FRUSTRATION EVEN GUILT OF BEING SURVIVOR YOU KNEW WHEN YOU SAW THAT SECOND ONE COME DOWN ALL THOSE PEOPLE AND THE
FIREFIGHTERS AND EVERYBODY WAS DYING YOU
TH WAS
WAS SO BUSY RUNNING AROUND LOT OF US DIDNT
EV

RODRIGUEZ
WHAT REALLY HITS YOU
AFTER THE SECOND ONE WENT DOWN THEY
SAID THERE WAS AN AMBULANCE AND THE LIEUTENANTS WERE TELLING US NOT TO GO IN REMEMBER TELLING MY PARTNER LISTEN THIS IS BULLSHIT EXCUSE MY LANGUAGE WEVE GOT PEOPLE IN THERE TRAPPED WERE GOING IN THERE
SO SIX GUYS SAID ANYBODY GOT ANY BALLS GET IN THE BACK OF MY BUS THERE WAS
SUPPOSED TO BE AN AMBULANCE CALLED 19 SOMETHING AND NOBODY HEARD FROM THEM THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE BEHIND THE APARTMENTS OVER THERE BY BATTERY PARK
SO SIX GUYS JUMPED IN MY AMBULANCE AND SAID WERE GOING IN WERE GOING TO CALL THIS
OPERATION OUR GUYS WERE GOING TO GET OUR GUYS OUT OF THERE WE WENT IN THERE WE FOUND THE
AMBULANCE BUT THERE WAS NOBODY IN THE AMBULANCE
HOPEFULLY THEY GOT OUT
THEN WE CAME BACK YOU WANTED TO DO
SOMETHING AND YOU COULDNT DO NOTHING EVERYBODY WAS DEAD IT WAS JUST HELPLESS FEELING IT WAS JUST HELPLESS FEELING
THATS

RODRIGUEZ 10
JUST KEPT
THERE WORKED THE MORGUE 18 HOURS MY NEXT PASS
DAY IN THE BEGINNING WHEN YOU WORKED THE MORGUE IT WAS TENT BY THE AMERICAN EXPRESS BUILDING WE THE EMS PEOPLE WE HAD TO GO THROUGH THE BODY PARTS
YOU KNOW YOU GET BODY BAG IN AND EXPECT BODY THERE WERE NO BODIES THEY WERE BAGS WE HAD TO OPEN UP THOSE RED BAGS WITH OUR
HANDS OF COURSE WE HAD GLOVES ON AND YOU HAD
TO GO THROUGH THOSE BODY PARTS LOOKING FOR ANYTHING TO ASSOCIATE THAT REMAINS WITH MEMBER
OF THE SERVICE WHETHER IT WAS LOOKING FOR
LITTLEBLUE THREAD PIECE OF EQUIPMENT DID THAT FOR 18 HOURS YOU KNOW AND IT WAS ROUGH
REMEMBER THE RESPECT THE CORONER SHOWED BY ORDERING TABLES THEY DIDNT WANT TO
BE PUTTING BODY PARTS ON THE FLOOR TREATING
ANYBODY WITH DISRESPECT THATS SOMETHING REMEMBER THE RESPECT THEY SHOWED FOR THE REMAINS
OF ALL THOSE PEOPLE
IT WAS JUST HORRIBLE SITUATION
DONT KNOW HOW ELSE TO DESCRIBE IT ITS BEEN HORRIBLE SITUATION
JUST

RODRIGUEZ 11

RODRIGUEZ 12

RODRIGUEZ 13

RODRIGUEZ 14

DONT KNOW HOW
LIVING THROUGH DONT KNOW HOW
ELSE TO DESCRIBE IT IT WAS LIKE HELL IT WAS SAD SAD DAY ELSE TO DESCRIBE IT FOR YOU
RODRIGUEZ 15
IT WAS JUST HORRIBLE SITUATION
THINK YOUVE DONE
THOUGHT HAD SEEN THINGS IN MY LIFE IN 13 YEARS
PRETTY GOOD JOB LOT OF HORRIBLE
IN THE BRONX IVE SEEN THE WORST OF EVERYTHING AS FAR AS
MUTILIZATIONS PICKING UP BODY PARTS ON
HIGHWAY 200 PIECES GUY RUN OVER BY TRACTOR TRAILER
BUT WORKING AT THE MORGUE AND PICKING
UP HANDS WITH WEDDING BANDS ON THEM KNOWING THAT
THEY BELONGED TO SOME LOVED ONE AND PICKING UP TORSOS WALLETS WITH PICTURES OF KIDS THOSE
WERE AMERICANS YOU KNOW DECENT PEOPLE WHO DIED INNOCENTLY IT WAS PRETTY TOUGH
ITS ALSO BROUGHT THE GOOD OUT IN PEOPLE AND THINK PEOPLE ARE CLOSER TO GOD AND PEOPLE ARE THINK WE GOT TOO IN THIS COUNTRY WE GOT TOO COMFORTABLE WHERE WE WERE SO BORED WITH OUR BEING HAVING BALANCED BUDGET AND LIVING SO GOOD THAT WE WERE SO BORED WE

RODRIGUEZ 16
STARTED FIGHTING AM EACH TH
IS DIFFERENT THAN MINE LET ME START WITH
YOU OR YOUR RELIGION IS DIFFERENT AND THIS WOKE US
UP
LITTLE BIT
PEOPLE SAY WE GOT CAUGHT WITH OUR PANTS DOWN WE GOT CAUGHT WITHOUT OUR PANTS EVEN ON YOU KNOW WHAT MEAN
DONT KNOW HOW ELSE TO SAY IT IT WAS JUST HORRIBLE THING BUT IT BROUGHT LOT OF GOOD OUT OF PEOPLE MORE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO
CHURCH NOW APPRECIATE EVERYTHING HAVE NOW THINGS DIDNT APPRECIATE COMING HOME AND SEEING MY DOGS IN THE YARD AND THEM LICKING ME AND SEEING MY FIVE YEAR OLD SON ALL THE THINGS
TOOK FOR GRANTED THEN DONT TAKE FOR GRANTED ANYMORE
DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE TO SAY JUST
HOPE ALL THOSE PEOPLE THAT PASSED AWAY ARE HAPPY IN HEAVEN AND AT PEACE WITH THEMSELVES DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE TO SAY
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WOULD LIKE
TO ADD TO THIS INTERVIEW IN REGARDS TO 911 TILL ABOUT MAYBE 200 IN THE AFTERNOON
UP TILL 200 IN THE AFTERNOON ITS
UP

HARD THINGS IN SEVERITY
RODRIGUEZ 17
TH OF THE SITUATION ITS LIKE HORROR
MOVIE YOU SAW IN NOT SLOW MOTION BUT FAST SPEED YOUR ADRENALINE WAS FLOWING SOMETIMES
BITS AND PIECES COME TO YOU THAT YOU DONT EVEN REMEMBER IM LIKE OH REMEMBER THAT NOW
BECAUSE YOUR MIND BLOCKED OUT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WERE SO HORRIBLE
REMEMBER WHEN WAS KID USED TO GET THE PAPER WITH THE LITTLE DROPS OF CANDY AND
YOU WOULD BITE THE CANDY REMEMBER IN THE
MORGUE PICKING UP FACE JUST PIECE OF SKIN WITH TEETH ON IT LIKE THAT THE THINGS YOU SAW DOWN THERE WERE HORRIFYING
THANK GOD NOW THEY DONT HAVE TO DO
THAT REMEMBER THE THREE PEOPLE WORKED WITH THE FIRST TIME WORKED IN THE MORGUE THEY HAD
TO BE RELIEVED THEY COULDNT TAKE IT SO WAS THERE ALL BY MYSELF JUST TRIED TO THINK THESE ARE FAMILIES PEOPLE THAT WERE LOVED AND THEY WERE GOOD DECENT PEOPLE AND SOMEBODY HAS TO DO THIS IF COULD DO IT AND SHOW RESPECT FOR
THEIR REMAINS AND TREAT THEM IN
IM GOING TO DO IT THATS THE LEAST COULD DO
RESPECTFUL WAY

RODRIGUEZ 18
TH PRAY TH REMEMBER THE PRIEST SAYING PRAYERS
OVER THEM BEFORE WE EVEN OPENED THE BAGS EVERYBODY THAT DIED IN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER THEIR REMAINS WERE TREATED WITH RESPECT THEY HAD PRIEST PRAY FOR THEM FOR THEIR LAST RITES FOR THEIR SOULS THAT THEY DIDNT SUFFER
AND THINK THE FAMILIES THAT DONT KNOW THAT SHOULD KNOW THAT THAT THERE WAS NOBODY
WHO HAD FAMILY MEMBERS REMAINS TREATED
DISRESPECTFULLY WITHOUT PRAYER WITHOUT RESPECT AND THINK THATS VERY IMPORTANT THAT THE
FAMILIES SHOULD KNOW
IF COULD DO SOMETHING WOULD WANT
THAT TO BE KNOWN THAT THE FAMILIES KNOW THAT WE TREATED THEIR FAMILYS REMAINS AS THOUGH THEY
WERE OUR OWN FAMILIES FROM THE CORONERS WHO ORDERED THOSE METAL BEDS SO NOBODY WOULD BE PUT ON THE FLOOR TO THE PRIEST THERE THAT PRAYED OVER THE REMAINS
THINK IF THERES ONE THING COULD TELL THE PEOPLE OF NEW YORK IS THAT THEIR FAMILY
MEMBERS REMAINS WERE TREATED WITH RESPECT AND DIGNITY MAYBE THAT WILL BRING THEM SOME SOLACE

RODRIGUEZ 19
IN THIS WH SAD SITUATI THATS ALL CAN SAY
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR CONDUCTING THIS INTERVIEW
MR ECCLESTON THIS INTERVIEW IS BEING CONCLUDED AT 2230 HOURS THE COUNTER ON THE CASSETTE PLAYER IS 484
File No. 9110482
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
    EMS LIEUTENANT NELSON VELAZQUEZ
   Interview Date:  January 23, 2002
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
N. VELAZQUEZ
2
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today is January 23rd, 2002.
I'm Paul Radenberg of the Fire Department's World Trade
Center Task Force currently at EMS Battalion 14.  I am
conducting an interview with Lieutenant --
          LIEUTENANT VELAZQUEZ:   Velzaquez, Nelson,
from Battalion 14 in the Bronx, Shield No. 372.
          MR. RADENBERG:  This interview is being
conducted regarding the events of September 11th,
2001.  Interview start time will be 1308.
     Q.   Lieutenant?
     A.   On September the 10th, I worked the Tour 3,
evening tour, in the Bronx.  I proceeded to stay on for
Tour 1, which is September the 11th, the night tour.  I
worked a double shift.  Sometime around between 5:00
and 6:00 o'clock in the morning, when I arrived home,
this was probably about the time when I went to sleep,
and during the morning of September the 11th, I thought
I was dreaming when I was hearing sirens and a lot of
noise and commotion.  The location where I was sleeping
at my girlfriend's house has a view of the West Side
Highway and West End Avenue on the lower east side,
62nd Street.  My girlfriend turned on the News Channel
1 and she woke me up and told me that an airplane just
crashed into the World Trade Center.  So when I woke
N. VELAZQUEZ
3
up, I looked out the window and I could see what looked
like hundreds of fire, police and different types of
emergency vehicles heading south.  It looked like there
was no other traffic on the highway or on West End
Avenue going south.  There was a lot of commotion on
the street and this is far north of the actual event.
          So I immediately put on the same clothes I
worked on the double and I ran downstairs and I got on
my motorcycle and I went in my personal vehicle and I
rode down to near Warren Street where there's a College
of Insurance and that's where I parked my bike, in the
middle of the block between West and Warren going -- I
don't know the name of the street that's eastbound.
     Q.   That's Greenwich.
     A.   Greenwich, between Greenwich and West, and I
started walking south on West when a cloud of smoke
started to come in my direction.  I believe the first
building collapsed probably by the time I was parking
my bike on Warren.  As I started to go west -- I mean
south on West, I started encountering a lot of people
running in my direction.  Some of the people I
recognized as fire and police and mostly civilians.  I
noticed that the smoke started to settle and it was
basically a stream of dust, and I remember grabbing one
N. VELAZQUEZ
4
EMS person and stopping her from running because she
seemed kind of dazed and lost and I noticed there were
vehicles in the cloud and I held her and I said, hey,
it's already collapsed, you don't have to run anymore,
and she was like frantic, like don't go over there.
She was terrified.  So there was an ambulance and a
crew that was covered in dust and I just led her to
them and they proceeded to deal with her, I guess.  I
told them to do anything just to keep her occupied, but
I didn't want her to run any direction.
          As the cloud started to settle, I went south,
and there was like an overpass, a pedestrian walk,
close to a building that was on fire.  Apparently from
the time I left my house to the time I got down there
and parked my bike, a second aircraft had crashed and
the first building had collapsed.  There were people
everywhere.  It was total chaos.  There was equipment
all over the place.  Basically, there were units coming
in from a lot of different directions, private and EMS,
and what I was trying to do, I met up with -- I somehow
found an EMT by the name of -- now I can't remember,
from Jacobi, Battalion 20, Fuentes I believe his name
was or Flores.  I can't remember.
          Anyway, between me and this EMT and a couple
N. VELAZQUEZ
5
of vehicles, we tried to set up like a staging on West
up against the sidewalk.  Eventually, because of the
dust, we had to move north about two blocks, and before
we knew it I had about seven units and about twelve
people.  There were mismatch units, civilian, FDNY
units.  The communications was impossible.  There was a
lot of radio chatter and poor reception.  So basically
I had these units that we were already treating
people.  We didn't even get a chance to make ACRs.  We
must have treated about 30 people with respiratory
problems and eye irritation.  We tried to have them
standing into the wind so that the wind could give them
some fresh air.
          A few minutes after, then the next building
came down.  I didn't expect it to come down.  It was a
total shock.  It was a very terrifying feeling.  There
were people crying, people were dazed.  I didn't run
when the second building fell because there were still
too many people, and I didn't have any of the people
move the vehicles because I was afraid they might run
people over.  So it's kind of stand fast, and the smoke
and the dust came by like a wave, and then we started
trying to regroup again.  We stayed there for a couple
of hours, we treated a few people, then we wound up
N. VELAZQUEZ
6
moving north into the gym of the -- I think it was the
medical college or Bronx -- Borough of Manhattan
Community College, the gym on the second floor, and we
started treating patients, we put out the mats, we
started trying to dust people off before they came into
the building, and we were treating quite a few people
there.  I noticed there were a few Bronx units from
Lincoln.  I remember Mr. Perez.  I remember seeing
Burgos covered in ash.  They assisted me for a few
minutes.  Then there was a call to evacuate the school
gym because somebody said there may have been a gas
leak.  By then we were already set up with school
security staff.  We set up hoses to hose people down
just before we had to evacuate the building and we
moved about another block north.  Most of the vehicles,
including the MERV, I remember, were south of Vesey or
near Vesey.
          During this chaos, there was a water truck, a
Poland Springs water truck that was down there, and me
and a couple people managed to go down there and take
about ten bottles of water and we brought it to where
we were at the staging we set up north of Warren,
closer to the college gym, and we were irrigating
people's eyes.  Most of the people just wanted to
N. VELAZQUEZ
7
leave.  A couple of units transported a few patients.
          We stayed there for a couple of hours, just
gathering every unit that passed by me, I stopped them
to see if they had a purpose or where they were going.
Most of them didn't know where they were going.  They
were just coming in from all over the place.  I held
them for a while, monitored the radio, and they would
ask for a unit.  Apparently there was another staging
southeast of me.  I'm not exactly too sure.  I think it
was on Church.  They were asking for units and I sent a
few units in that direction.  Once I saw that the units
were not being utilized where I was, I sent them to the
pier on, I believe it was 23rd Street Pier.
     Q.   The Chelsea Piers?
     A.   The Chelsea Piers seemed to be like an
assembly area.  So I sent quite a few units over there
because they were not being utilized.  But the period
of time that we were at West Street near the college we
had a treatment center and there was also a staging.
          After those units were sent north to the
Chelsea Piers, I went south, where the command post
was.  Apparently I stayed there for a few hours
assisting any way that I can.  I believe there was a
school, a public school they were using as maybe a
N. VELAZQUEZ
8
command post, and there were a few units there and I
was directed to control those units and supervise them
for a little while.  It seemed like the sun was already
starting to go down.  I was supposed to go back to work
at 1300 hours on the 11th for my Tour 3, which I never
made.  I wound up staying down in Manhattan for the
rest of the tour until there were quite a few
resources.  I remember seeing a few chiefs.
          Anyway, then from there I went home and that
was basically my tour.  My evening tour I stayed down
there instead of my battalion.
     Q.   You parked your bike here on Warren, right,
between West and Greenwich?
     A.   Well, I can't see the name of the street on
the map.
     Q.   This is Greenwich.
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   And you said you had started coming down
south on West?
     A.   On West.
     Q.   And you had said that you encountered the
female EMT that was out of it --
     A.   Without a partner or a vehicle.
     Q.   -- and another ambulance crew that you put
N. VELAZQUEZ
her over with them?
     A.   Right.
9
     Q.   Do you remember where that was?
     A.   Roughly, I think it was near Barclay.
     Q.   Down around Barclay?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Did you recognize the crew at all?
     A.   I remember the female.  I don't know her
name, but I think she was from -- actually, I think she
used to work in Jacobi.  I think she works out of
Bellevue now.
     Q.   That was an EMS crew member?
     A.   An EMS person.
     Q.   You continued south, roughly this first
covered bridge?
     A.   Right where the bridge was.
     Q.   Between 3 and 6 Trade Center?
     A.   It looks like it's on the northbound side of
West by 6 World Trade Center.
     Q.   And that's where you tried to form up a
staging area?
     A.   Well, that's where I was encountering a few
more people, but the scene wasn't safe.  There was
still a lot of smoke and dust and I believe these
N. VELAZQUEZ
10
adjacent buildings were on fire and there was still a
lot of emergency vehicles coming in these areas and
they were sort of blocked in.  So we went up towards
Barclay.
     Q.   So you were basically taking units that were
already in this area --
     A.   They were coming from every direction.
     Q.   -- and brought them back towards Barclay.
          Do you remember seeing any other EMS officers
down there that you recognized?
     A.   Not initially.  After the second building
collapsed, a while after, and before -- I'm not sure if
it was -- was that 7 that collapsed, the third
building?
     Q.   I think so.  That came down late.  Well, not
late, but like 5:00 o'clock in the evening the same
day.
     A.   Right.  Well, I remember when that one came
down, I was at the command post that was I guess
between Vesey and Barclay and there were quite a few
supervisors and chiefs and a lot of fire suppression
personnel.  But most of my activities were a little bit
north of that command post because we had to move
several times.
N. VELAZQUEZ
Q.   Anything else you'd like to add?
A.   No.
11
          MR. RADENBERG:  Okay.  Thank you.  The time
is now 1323 and the interview is concluded.

FILE NO 9110483
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT NAOMI NACIONAL
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 23 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

NACIONAL
MR RADENBERG TODAY IS JANUARY 23RD 2002 IM PAUL RADENBERG OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENTS WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE IM CURRENTLY AT EMS BATTALION 14 IN THE BRONX CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH
EMT NACIONAL NAOMI NACIONAL EMT 5228 SHIELD
MR RADENBERG NAOMI IS
ASSIGNED TO EMS BATTALION 14 THIS INTERVIEW START TIME WILL BE 1417 HOURS REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
NAOMI
WAS OUTSIDE BRONX LEBANON HOSPITAL ON
THE CONCOURSE WHEN HEARD ON THE RADIO STATION FIRST BEFORE THE ANNOUNCEMENT WENT OVER THE RADIO
INTO THE TWIN TOWERS JOKE BECAUSE THE
RADIO STATION DOES LOT OF
THE MORNING MY PARTNER WAS LIKE OH MY GOD LISTEN TO THIS WHAT HAPPENED
BEFORE WE KNEW IT WE HEARD THE ANNOUNCEMENT OVER THE RADIO IN FEW MINUTES THEY ASSIGNED US WHICH IS VERY STRANGE
SAYING THAT PLANE CRASHED AT FIRST THOUGHT IT WAS
CURRENTLY
THINGS LIKE THAT IN

NACIONAL
THOUGHT BECAUSE WE WERE ALL THE WAY IN THE BRONX WHICH IS JUST KIND OF WEIRD WE DIDNT
HEAR THEM CALLING ANYONE ELSE
THEY CALLED OUR UNIT 14 CHARLIE AND
WE STARTED HEADING DOWN THERE WAS WORKING WITH JULIO MARRERO WE TOOK SECOND AVENUE ALL
THE WAY DOWN REMEMBER DRIVING TOWARDS THERE AND REMEMBER SEEING ALL THE SMOKE AS WE GOT CLOSER JUST SEE THE TOWERS AND IT LOOKED KIND OF SCARY AND STUFF
WE ACTUALLY GOT CALL THAT WAS ON
CORNER NOT ACTUALLY RESPONDING TO THE MCI IT WAS FOR CARDIAC ON THE CORNER IM PRETTY SURE
IT WAS SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES OF LIBERTY AND TRINITY THAT SECTION OVER THERE BUT WE HAD
CALL
REMEMBER WHEN WE GOT THERE THERE WAS JUST SO MUCH CHAOS AND COMMOTION THERE WAS NO
WAY WE CAN FIND PERSON WITH CARDIAC CONDITION ON THE CORNER IT WAS JUST IMPOSSIBLE SO WE TRIED TO EXPLAIN THIS TO THE DISPATCHER THEM NOT KNOWING WHAT WAS GOING ON THEY WERE JUST TELLING US WELL THEN COME BACK TO THE BRONX
WE SAW LIEUTENANT ON THE SCENE AND

NACIONAL
WE PULLED UP TO WOULD SAY VESEY AND WEST IT WAS NOT IN FRONT OF THE TOWERS ON THE LEFT SIDE
BUT SOMEWHERE ADJACENT TO WHERE YOU COULD LOOK
AND YOU SAW THEM RIGHT ON TOP OF YOU
WE PULLED UP ON THE SCENE AND THERE
WERE ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE FIRE TRUCKS AND
EVERYTHING WE SAW THE BUILDING ON FIRE RIGHT ABOVE US STOOD IN THE BUS AND THE LIEUTENANT
ON THE SCENE WAS INFORMING US WHERE TO GO
MY PARTNER GOT OUT OF THE VEHICLE AND
WAS SPEAKING TO THE LIEUTENANT AND WAS TRYING TO SPEAK TO THE DISPATCHER BECAUSE SHE WAS TELLING US TO COME BACK TO THE BRONX WAS TELLING HER THAT THE LIEUTENANT ON THE SCENE WAS TELLING US TO COME OUT AND HELP OUT
ALL OF SUDDEN HEARD THIS NOISE THAT WAS JUST HORRIBLE WOULD SAY IT SOUNDED LIKE
GATE RATTLING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT LOOK OVER AT THE PEOPLE AND GO TO LOOK UP BUT
WAS SITTING INSIDE THE AMBULANCE SO NOT
REALIZING THAT THERES NO WAY COULD SEE SAW
BUT HEARD IT THEN LOOKED BACK AND
NOTHING
SAW THAT ALMOST EVERYONE WAS GONE IT WAS JUST
LIKE IN SECOND LOOKED AND NO ONE WAS THERE

NACIONAL
SO GOT OUT AND STARTED RUNNING BECAUSE EVERYONE STARTED RUNNING THAT WAS WHEN
THE SECOND TOWER COLLAPSED IT WAS RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SECOND TOWERS COLLAPSE
WE WERE RUNNING AND GOT COMPLETELY SEPARATED FROM MY PARTNER DIDNT REALLY KNOW
WHERE TO RUN ALL OF SUDDEN IT WAS LIKE
BEIGE SNOWSTORM ALL THESE PEOPLE WERE RUNNING AND ASKING FOR HELP DIDNT KNOW WHAT TO DO
DIDNT HAVE ANY EQUIPMENT DIDNT HAVE HELMET HAD NOTHING REMEMBER THAT THE
STUFF WAS BURNING MY SKIN BECAUSE HAD SHORT SLEEVES ON BECAUSE IT WAS STILL WARM THEN
LEANED UP AGAINST THE WALL AND COVERED MY HEAD AND ALL THE DUST AND DEBRIS
ENGULFED EVERYBODY THIS ONE GUY HE WAS BIG GUY HE WAS ABOUT YOUR SIZE HE JUMPED ON ME FOR ME TO HELP HIM DIDNT KNOW WHAT TO DO THINK HE BROKE HIS LEG OR SOMETHING BECAUSE HIS LEG LOOKED ALL WEIRD
THERE WAS NO WAY COULD HELP HIM BECAUSE IM NOT THAT BIG IN COMPARISON TO HIM FOR HIM TO JUMP ON ME FOR ME TO TRY TO TRY TO
CARRY HIM AWAY FROM THERE WAS JUST NOT HAPPENING

NACIONAL
REMEMBER FELL TO THE GROUND BECAUSE
HE JUMPED ON ME LEANED AGAINST THE WALL AND LEANED AGAINST IT
SEE ANYTHING DONT KNOW WHY
BUT
COULDNT HEAR ANYTHING DONT THINK THAT WAS
DEAF BUT THINK BLOCKED OUT WHATEVER IT WAS AND COULDNT HEAR ANYTHING WAS JUST
TRYING PUT MY FACE IN MY SHIRT TO TRY TO
IF IT WAS PSYCHOLOGICAL OR ANYTHING
BREATHE IT WAS TOO LATE IT WAS UP
EVENTUALLY IT SEEMED LIKE BUT DONT THINK IT REALLY WAS
ALL COVERED
LONG TIME STARTED
REALIZING WHAT WAS GOING ON IT WAS JUST WEIRD
GOT UP AND WAS WALKING AROUND AND LOOKING FOR ANYONE FROM ANY PD ANY FIRE FIRE GUYS AND COULDNT FIND ANYBODY JUST FOUND ALL REGULAR CIVILIANS THAT WERE RUNNING TO ME
IT WAS TO THE POINT THAT WAS SO NERVOUS BECAUSE COULDNT HELP THEM WANTED
TO EITHER TAKE THE SHIRT OFF OR DOING SOMETHING BECAUSE THEY WERE JUST ASKING ME WHAT TO DO AND HAD NO CLUE
FORGOT REALLY WHAT HAPPENED KNOW
FELT FOR COULDNT
DONT KNOW

NACIONAL
WAS IN BANK SOMEHOW WAS IN BANK
FOUND MY PARTNER THERE WALKED RIGHT UP TO HIM AND TAPPED HIM ON THE SHOULDER AND HE WAS
LIKE OH MY GOD ARE YOU OKAY WHAT HAPPENED WAS LIKE DONT KNOW
THEN WE WERE GETTING PEOPLE INTO THE BANK THIS WOMAN WAS HAVING AN ASTHMA ATTACK
AND WE COULDNT DO NOTHING BECAUSE WE HAD NO EQUIPMENT SO WAS BASICALLY JUST WATCHING HER
REALLY
SUFFER
THEN AFTER THAT DONT KNOW WHAT
HAPPENED IT WAS LIKE LOT OF GAPS AND WHATEVER
REMEMBER WHEN THE SECOND TOWER CAME DOWN STUFF KIND OF FELL AROUND ME LEANED
AGAINST WALL AND THERE WAS STUFF OUT HERE TO THE RIGHT AND TO THE LEFT AND IN FRONT OF ME STOOD IN THERE FOR WHILE WHEN CAME OUT IT WAS LIKE MUST HAVE BEEN REALLY CLOSE TO THE TOWERS YOU DIDNT REALIZE WHEN YOU WERE RUNNING OR WHEN YOU WERE WALKING IF YOU WERE GOING IN THE DIRECTION OF THE TOWERS OR AWAY FROM IT BECAUSE ALL YOU SAW WAS IT WAS FOG
WHAT IM THINKING IM PRETTY SURE

NACIONAL
RAN TOWARDS THE TOWERS INSTEAD OF AWAY FROM IT
BECAUSE SAW WHEN THAT ONE COLLAPSED SAW LESS AMOUNT OF PEOPLE AND MORE OF THE PEOPLE
SAW WERE PEOPLE THAT WERE ON THE RUN NOT REALLY RESPONDING OR STUFF LIKE THAT
GOT OUT OF WHEREVER WAS IN AND
SAW WHEN ALL THE DEBRIS WAS FLYING THROUGH THE STREETS SAW THIS ONE GUY AND HE WAS HELPING WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE HE WAS IN CVS THINK THAT WAS TWO OR THREE BLOCKS AWAY HAD RUN DISTANCE HE WAS HELPING ALL THESE PEOPLE
THOUGHT IT WAS KIND OF FUNNY BECAUSE SAW THESE FIREMEN AND COPS RUNNING IN THERE
AND HE WAS SAVING THEM SOME GUY FROM THE STREET THAT WE UNDERESTIMATE AND HERE HE IS NOW LIKE
ALMOST HERO
WAS IN THE CVS THERE WAS WHOLE
REGULAR GUY

NACIONAL
BUNCH OF COPS IN THERE AND FIREMEN IN THERE EVENTUALLY WE GOT OUT OF THERE SOMEHOW WAS IN
GYM REMEMBER BEING IN GYM WHERE THERE WERE ACTUAL WEIGHTS AND STUFF AND PEOPLE
FOUND THIS ONE KID THAT KNEW FROM HE WAS IN BATTALION 46 HIS NAME IS
CHRIS LONDEL HE IS NOW THINK IN
UNIT IN METROTECH FROM WHEN LAST HEARD OF HIM HE HELPED ME OUT LOT HE GAVE ME HIS HELMET HE LOOKED AFTER ME NEVER REALLY KNEW HIM
JUST SAW HIM ONCE AND WE JUST RECOGNIZED EACH OTHER IT WAS LIKE THIS UNSPOKEN THING THAT WE JUST WANTED TO STAY NEAR EACH
OTHER BECAUSE WE KNEW THAT WE WERE OR WHATEVER
WE WENT AROUND TRYING TO HELP OUT WE TOOK IT WAS WEIRD STUFF LIKE
PEOPLE
BANANAS AND TRIED GIVING THEM TO PEOPLE SO THEY
WOULDNT GET NERVOUS DONT KNOW WHAT WE WERE
THINKING STICKING
CHARLES
OR MAYBE CHARLES
IT WAS KIND OF STRANGE WAS WITH HIM
FOUND THIS OTHER GUY HIS NAME IS DONT REMEMBER WHAT HIS LAST NAME IS
THATS HIS LAST NAME JUST REMEMBER HES FROM BATTALION 16 SAW THIS
PHOTOGRAPHY

NACIONAL 10
OTHER GUY CANTON SMITH HES FROM 46 OR 50 OR
LIKE
IT WAS JUST CRAZY THING SAW ALL THE FIREMEN AND THEY WERE ALL HAVING THIS LOOK ON THEIR FACE THAT THEY DIDNT EVEN HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT THEY JUST HAD TO DO WHATEVER THEY THOUGHT WAS RIGHT AND THEY DIDNT EVEN KNOW IF IT WAS RIGHT JUST LIKE COMPLETE LOOK OF DOUBT AND BELIEF AT THE SAME TIME
AS FAR AS THE TOWERS DONT REALLY REMEMBER LOOKING AT THEM AFTER THAT BECAUSE YOU COULDNT SEE ANYTHING JUST REMEMBER WHEN ACTUALLY DID TURN AROUND IT WAS KIND OF STUPID TO ME KEPT THINKING TO MYSELF ALWAYS SEE IN HORROR MOVIES THE GIRL WILL BE RUNNING AND TURN AROUND WHY DOES SHE TURN AROUND WHAT IS SHE LOOKING AT KEEP RUNNING TURNED AROUND AND LOOKED AND THOUGHT WHY DID DO THAT
THATS BASICALLY WHAT REMEMBER
EVENTUALLY KEPT WALKING TOWARDS THE HIGHWAY AND FOUND LIEUTENANT SUPPOSEDLY SHE SAID THAT WAS REAL OUT OF IT IT WAS JUST BASICALLY
WAS REAL TIRED WASNT HYSTERICAL OR ANYTHING NEVER REALLY CRIED FROM THE WHOLE
SOMETHING

NACIONAL 11
THING FORTUNATELY DIDNT LOSE ANY IMMEDIATE
FAMILY
MEMBERS AND SO FORTH
WHEN THEY GAVE YOU THE JOB FOR LIBERTY AND TRINITY THE CARDIAC WHEN YOU WERE COMING
WHEN YOU WERE HEADING DOWNTOWN DID YOU REACH LIBERTY AND TRINITY
YEAH WE REACHED IT AT SOME POINT AND THEN WE DONT KNOW IF WE TURNED AROUND
BECAUSE ALL THE STREETS WERE COMPLETELY LIKE YOU COULDNT EVEN TELL THERE WAS JUST PRIVATE AMBULANCES ALL KINDS OF FIRE TRUCKS
JAMMED UP
YEAH REMEMBER BEING AT THE POINT
AND SAYING THERES NO WAY WE CAN FIND ANYBODY THERE WAS JUST MOBS AND MOBS AND MOBS OF PEOPLE THERE WAS NO WAY WE WERE GOING TO GET OUT AND LOOK FOR SOMEBODY IT WAS OBVIOUS WE HAD TO EITHER FIND LIEUTENANT AND ASK THEM WHAT WE SHOULD DO OR WHATEVER
REMEMBER BEING THERE MY PARTNER WAS DRIVING SO DONT KNOW IF HE WENT DOWN AND
TURNED AROUND UP TRINITY AND THEN MADE LEFT ON
BECAUSE KNOW THAT WE WERENT ON THE LEFT SIDE IM PRETTY SURE THAT WE WERENT THINK
VESEY

THATS WHAT HAPPENED
THAT WERE
AT ALL IN AFTER THE
DO YOU KNOW WHO THAT WAS
NO
DO YOU REMEMBER ANY OTHER EMS UNITS
WITH YOU AT THIS SPOT THERE
ACTUALLY WE DIDNT SEE MANY EMS UNITS THE BEGINNING WHEN SAW THEM WAS ALL BUILDINGS HAD COLLAPSED AND THEY CAME
NACIONAL 12
WAS IT AT LIHERTY AND TRINITY THAT YOU FOUND THE LIEUTENANT
NO IT WAS SOMEWHERE AROUND VESEY THAT WE FOUND THE LIEUTENANT
IN THE BEGINNING WHEN WE PULLED UP THINK
SAW ONE DONT REMEMBER WHAT BUS IT IS FROM
WHAT HEARD THINK ONLY TWO AMBULANCES WERE
REALLY DESTROYED ONE WAS IN
AND THINK ONE OF THEM WAS THE
THE UNIT YOU WENT DOWN THERE
YEAH IT WAS BUS 311 DONT REMEMBER ANY OTHER BUSES THAT WERE THERE REMEMBER SEEING ONE COMMAND CAR AND ONE OTHER AMBULANCE
SO YOU WERE ON ROUGHLY VESEY AND WEST WEST SIDE HIGHWAY OR THIS IS ACTUALLY WEST

BROADWAY
NACIONAL 13
IM PRETTY SURE IT WAS WEST BROADWAY WEST BROADWAY
YEAH BECAUSE DONT REMEMBER SEEING
THE HIGHWAY YOU KNOW WHAT MEAN
BUILDINGS
RIGHT RIGHT
JUST REMEMBER SEEING MORE AND MORE
SO YOU WERE OVER HERE AT VESEY AND WEST
BROADWAY WHEN THE FIRST BUILDING COLLAPSED THINK SO IM PRETTY SURE
DO YOU REMEMBER ROUGHLY WHERE YOU WERE WHEN THE SECOND ONE COLLAPSED
DONT THINK WAS THAT FAR
YOU WERE STILL IN THE AREA
YEAH THINK WAS ONLY MAYBE NOT
THAT FAR AT ALL LIKE MAYBE CHURCH AND VESEY BECAUSE HAD RUN RUN RUN AND THEN WENT BACK
TO LOOK FOR MY PARTNER OR WHATEVER WAS DOING WITH PEOPLE AND STUFF THINK RAN THE OTHER
WAY
KIND OF BACK TOWARDS IT
THINK
ANYTHING ELSE YOUD LIKE TO ADD
SO YEAH

NACIONAL 14
DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE TO SAY IM SORROWFUL FOR ALL THE LOSS AND IM
JUST REALLY
SORRY FOR ALL THE FIREMEN JUST REMEMBER LIKE
FACES AND STUFF
JOB IS BECAUSE WANTED TO BE FIREMAN
THEIR
THIS
SINCE
KNOW AS FAR AS THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AND STUFF LIKE THAT DONT REALLY KNOW
THE REASON WHY HAVE
WAS KID IT WAS JUST STRANGE DONT
THATS OKAY NO PROBLEM
MR RADENBERG THE TIME IS NOW 1432
AND THE INTERVIEW IS CONCLUDED

FILE NO 9110484
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW PARAMEDIC KAREN LAMANNA
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 23 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

LAMANNA
MR RADENBERG TODAY IS JANUARY 23RD 2002 IM PAUL RADENBERG OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE THE TIME IS NOW 1448 HOURS AM CURRENTLY AT EMS BATTALION 14 CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH
PARAMEDIC LAMANNA KAREN LAMANNA
OUT OF BATTALION 14
MR RADENBERG AND YOUR SHIELD NUMBER
PLEASE
PARAMEDIC LAMANNA 1620
MR RADENBERG THIS INTERVIEW IS
REGARDING THE EVENTS OF THE MORNING OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
KAREN IF YOU WOULD GIVE US WHEN YOU WERE ASSIGNED TO THE JOB
IN ACTUALITY WASNT SUPPOSED TO BE WORKING THEN WAS ON OVERTIME NORMALLY WORK TO 11 THE DAY BEFORE HAD SIGNED UP
HAD SIGNED UP FOR OVERTIME ORIGINALLY ON TOUR THE DAY OF THE 11TH OR THE DAY OF THE 12TH BUT AN OPENING CAME UP FOR TOUR IN THE MORNING SO
DECIDED ID TAKE THAT LIKE WORKING TOUR ANYWAY WASNT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE WOULD
PARAMEDIC

HAVE BEEN HOME
LAMANNA
ANYWAY CAME IN GOT HERE ABOUT 700 IN THE MORNING WAS TOLD AT THAT TIME
WAS SUPPOSED TO BE RIDING PARAMEDIC UNIT BUT ONE OF THE PARAMEDICS DIDNT MAKE IT IN SO THEY
DECIDED THEY WERE GOING TO PUT ME ON BLS UNIT AN EMT BUS 14 MARY IN LIEU OF 14 YOUNG WHICH WAS MY NORMAL UNIT WHICH IS WHAT WOULD HAVE
BEEN NORMALLY WORKING
SO WORKED WITH FREDDIE BURGOS AND
MYSELF WE WENT INTO SERVICE CHECKED OUR VEHICLE WE WENT AROUND THE CORNER FOR QUICK
CUP OF COFFEE WE HAD JUST FINISHED THAT LITERALLY AND WE WERE HEADING TO OUR AREA WE GOT CALLED ON THE RADIO 14 MARY SWITCH OVER TO CITYWIDE WELL BE SENDING YOU STANDBY
OKAY THAT WAS NONDESCRIPT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE
THE JOB CAME OVER IT CAME OVER AS
POSSIBLE EXPLOSION THINK IT WAS POSSIBLE EXPLOSION ANYWAY MCI AT THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING THATS HOW WE GOT THE JOB ORIGINALLY
SO WE IMMEDIATELY SWITCHED OVER TO CITYWIDE TOLD THEM WE WERE 63 WHICH IS EN ROUTE FOR THE JOB AND OFF WE WENT FLYING LIKE CRAZY TO GET THERE

LAMANNA
BECAUSE WE KNEW THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE SOMETHING MAJOR IT WAS GOING TO BE THE EMPIRE STATE
BUILDING
WHILE EN ROUTE BEFORE GOING OVER THE THIRD AVENUE BRIDGE WAS LISTENING TO THE MATE
CHITCHAT GOING ON OVER THE RADIO THE 12TH AND WHATEVER ELSE WAS BEING GIVEN LOOKED AT MY PARTNER AND SAID TO HIM YOU KNOW THIS DOESNT SOUND LIKE THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING
THIS SOUNDS MORE LIKE THE WORLD TRADE CENTER SURE ENOUGH 30 SECONDS LATER WHEN THE JOB COMES OVER ITS THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
AT THAT POINT THEY THOUGHT POSSIBLY
SMALL PLANE HAD HIT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER THEY
DIDNT KNOW WHAT TOWER AT THAT POINT OR AT LEAST WE DIDNT KNOW WHAT TOWER AT THAT POINT WHERE WE
WERE SO WE WENT OH BOY THATS GOING TO BE
SOMETHING MAJOR
SO ANYWAY WE CONTINUED ON WE HEADED
DOWN THE FDR DRIVE ABOUT HALFWAY DOWN THE FDR
DRIVE THE TRAFFIC WAS GETTING VERY HEAVY
EVERYTHING WAS BEING SHUT DOWN ABOUT HALFWAY DOWN ALL OF SUDDEN WE HEARD SCREAMING OVER THE
RADIO OH MY GOD OH MY GOD THERES ANOTHER

LAMANNA
EXPLOSION THERES ANOTHER PLANE MY PARTNER
AND LOOKED AT EACH OTHER AND WENT OH MY GOD
WE RE IN TROUBLE NOW
WE CONTINUED DOWN THE FDR AND WE GOT
TO THE POINT WHERE ABOUT HALF MILE BEFORE THE
BROOKLYN BRIDGE EXIT WE WERE STUCK IN MAJOR TRAFFIC TRYING TO GET THROUGH WE WERE ABLE
TO SEE THE TOWERS ALL WE SAW WAS LOT OF THICK SMOKE SOME FLAMES
WE LOOKED AT EACH OTHER AND SAID THIS CANT BE HAPPENING WE FELT LIKE IT WAS IN
DREAM THAT IT WAS TOTALLY SURREAL IM LIKE OKAY TIME TO WAKE UP NOW TIME TO WAKE UP
NEEDLESS TO SAY WE WERENT DREAMING WE WERE AWAKE
TRYING TO FIGHT OUR WAY THROUGH THE TRAFFIC WITH THE HELP OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND ALL WE MANAGED TO GET OFF THE EXIT THERE FOR THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE BUT WE WENT DOWN THROUGH THE SIDE STREETS
SAID TO MY PARTNER IM FAMILIAR WITH MANHATTAN SOMEWHAT BUT WHEN YOU GET DOWN ONTO THE LITTLE STREETS LIKE IN THE WALL STREET
AREA ITS LIKE MAZE HE SAID NO PRETTY
FINALLY

LAMANNA
MUCH HAVE AN IDEA WHERE GOING HECAUSE WE WERE
LOOKING FOR THE STAGING AREA WHICH AT THAT POINT ONE OF THE STAGING AREAS WAS LISTED AS LIBERTY
AND WEST IF IM NOT MISTAKEN SO THATS WHERE WE WERE GOING TO GO
WE ZIGZAGGED ALONG AND WENT THROUGH ALL KINDS OF STREETS ALONG THE WAY COUPLE TIMES
WE GOT FLAGGED DOWN THE PEOPLE THAT WERE INJURED AND HAD ALREADY MADE IT AWAY FROM THE TRADE TOWERS BUT AT THAT POINT THERE WERE SO MANY PRIVATE AMBULANCES AND VOLUNTEERS AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WE DECIDED LOOK THEY CAN HANDLE WHATEVER COMES THEIR WAY RIGHT NOW WE NEED TO GET TO THE STAGING AREA WERE ALWAYS TOLD TO GO TO THE STAGING AREA SO THERE WE WENT
SO WE FUTZED AROUND WE GOT LOST
LITTLE BIT HERE AND THERE FINALLY WE SAW AN ANR
AMBULANCE AND HE WAS ZIPPING ALONG IT LOOKED LIKE HE KNEW EXACTLY WHERE HE WAS GOING WE SAID
LETS FOLLOW HIM AND WE DID HE DID KNOW WHERE HE WAS GOING WE ENDED UP COMING OUT ONTO WEST STREET IM NOT EXACTLY SURE WHERE WE CAME OUT
AROUND RECTOR OR THEREABOUTS BECAUSE KNOW IT STOPS WEST
ORIGINALLY PROBABLY

LAMANNA
STREET EVENTUALLY STOPS AND BECOMES PARK SOMEWHERE
SO WE CAME IN RIGHT AFTER LIKE IF YOU WENT FROM THAT DIRECTION IT WOULD BE FROM THE PARK FURTHER DOWN WOULD BE THIS STREET WE CAME OUT ON HEADING TOWARDS THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ON WEST STREET THINK IT WAS AROUND RECTOR BUT IM NOT EXACTLY SURE
WE CAME OUT THERE MADE RIGHT HAND TURN TOWARDS THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WE WENT
DOWN PAST THE FIRST MARRIOTT COMING FROM THAT DIRECTION
ROUGHLY HEADING NORTH NOW HEADING BACK UPTOWN
RIGHT YES WAS HEADING TOWARDS THE WORLD TRADE CENTER SO THERES MARRIOTT THEN
ANOTHER BUILDING SOMETHING CALLED LIKE 72 POST
OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT THEN THERE WAS STREET AND THEN THERE WAS STEAK HOUSE
LITTLE
MORTONS STEAK HOUSE THEN THERE WAS ANOTHER
BUILDING AND RIGHT NEXT TO THAT BUILDING WAS THINK LIBERTY BECAUSE THE FIRST OVERPASS IS
THERE THEN ON THE OTHER SIDE DIRECTLY ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT IS THE SECOND MARRIOTT THAT

LAMANNA
WENT DOWN ALONG WITH THE WORLD TRADE CENTER YEAH
SO WHEN WE FIRST GOT THERE AND PULLED INTO THE AREA WE WERE JUST ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT WALKWAY THAT FIRST WALKWAY SO WE WERE SITTING PRETTY MUCH IN FRONT OF THE MARRIOTT THE SECOND MARRIOTT THE ONE THAT WENT DOWN WITH THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
OKAY
IT WAS TOTAL CHAOS WHEN WE FIRST
PULLED UP THERE WAS DUST AND THINGS BURNING ALL OVER THE PLACE ALREADY THERE WAS JUST TOTALLY LOT OF DEBRIS EVERYBODY WAS RUNNING IN
DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS TRYING TO GET EQUIPMENT AND EVERYTHING ELSE
DONT REMEMBER SEEING LOT OF CIVILIANS AT THAT POINT JUST REMEMBER ZONING
IN ON ALL THE EMERGENCY PERSONNEL KNOW THAT WHEN WE FIRST DROVE UP WE WERE RUNNING OVER BODY PARTS THAT MUCH REMEMBER
BUT WE DECIDED AT THAT POINT WE NEEDED TO FIND PLACE TO PARK SOMEWHAT SAFE AND OUT OF THE WAY AND IN CASE WE NEEDED TO GET OUT OF THERE QUICKLY WE NEEDED TO GET OUR EQUIPMENT AND GET

LAMANNA
GOING TOWARDS THE MAJOR SCENE
SO BACKED UP AND ENDED UP ON THIS
LITTLE IT ISNT THERE ANYMORE NOW IT WAS LIKE LITTLE ISLAND PER SE IT WAS MADE OUT OF CEMENT AND THERE WAS SOME GRASS ON IT AND THINGS LIKE THAT WHICH WAS RIGHT BEHIND COMING BACK NOW RIGHT BEHIND THE WALKWAY THE ABOVE OVERHEAD WALKWAY
RIGHT
FIRST WE PARKED THERE THERE WERE
LOT OF OTHER AMBULANCES AND FIRE TRUCKS AND EVERYTHING AROUND THERE DONT KNOW IF YOU
WANT TO CALL IT WOMANS INTUITION DONT KNOW WHAT YOU WANT TO CALL IT BUT SAID TO MY
PARTNER SAID YOU KNOW MAYBE WE SHOULD FIND
SOMEPLACE ELSE TO PARK MAYBE WELL WIND UP GETTING STUCK IN HERE WE NEED TO MAYBE PULL OUT
LITTLE BIT FURTHER IN CASE WE NEED TO GET OUT
OF HERE IN
HURRY
SO WE LOOKED AROUND REAL QUICK AND WE
SAW SPOT THAT WAS OPEN AT THE CORNER RIGHT IN FRONT OF MORTONS STEAK HOUSE RIGHT IN FRONT OF THAT LITTLE STREET DONT REMEMBER THE NAME OF THE LITTLE STREET THAT WAS RIGHT THERE IN FRONT

OF MORTON
LAMANNA 10
HES LIKE OKAY ILL BACK YOU UP INTO THE SPOT SO HE JUMPS OUT OF THE VEHICLE WE
BACKED UP INTO THE SPOT NO SOONER THROW THE VEHICLE INTO PARK IM JUST THROWING IT INTO PARK AND THE NOISE STARTED OF THE FIRST TOWER COMING DOWN
IT WAS THE MOST HORRENDOUS NOISE EVER HEARD IN MY LIFE AND ITS EVEN HARD FOR ME TO
EXPLAIN NOW WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE KNOW IVE HEARD PEOPLE DESCRIBE IT AS THUNDEROUS IM SURE
IT WAS THUNDEROUS IT WAS JUST MANY DIFFERENT THINGS
SO STARTED SCREAMING AT FREDDIE GET IN THE BUS DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON
BUT GET IN THE BUS GET IN THE BUS GET IN THE BUS GET IN THE BUS HE JUMPS IN WE START TO
ROLL UP OUR WINDOWS BEFORE WE KNOW IT ITS
COMPLETELY
BLACK
ITS NOT LIKE ANY DARKNESS IVE EVER
SEEN AS FAR AS AT NIGHTTIME OR ANYTHING YOU COULDNT SEE ANYTHING THERE WAS NO DAYLIGHT
YOU COULDNT SEE ANYTHING OUT OF THE WINDOWS AT ALL ALL WE COULD HEAR IS EVERYTHING FALLING ON

LAMANNA 11
TOP OF THE AMBULANCE THE HOOD AND ON TOP STARTED TO PANIC LITTLE IM LIKE
OH MY GOD WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO LETS GET OUT OF HERE FREDDIE IS LIKE THIS AND THAT
YOU JUST STAY CALM CALM YOURSELF DOWN WELL BE ALL RIGHT TAKE FEW BREATHS STARTED TO CALM DOWN SOMEWHAT AS MUCH AS COULD BUT GOT MY HEAD TOGETHER LITTLE BIT
SAID YOU KNOW WHAT IM GOING TO PUT IT IN REVERSE IM GOING TO SEE HOW FAR WE
CAN GET OUT OF HERE BECAUSE DIDNT LIKE THE WAY EVERYTHING WAS PILING UP AT THE AMBULANCE
FIGURED ANY SECOND SOMETHING WAS GOING TO COME FLYING THROUGH THE WINDSHIELD
SO DID PUT IT IN REVERSE BUT REALLY WENT SLOW ALL HAD TO REALLY DO WAS LIFT MY FOOT OFF IN ORDER TO MOVE LITTLE BIT BECAUSE DIDNT WANT TO TAKE CHANCE THAT SOMEBODY EVEN IN THE DARKNESS WAS RUNNING BEHIND US THEN REALLY WOULD HAVE FELT BAD
SO WE WENT AS FAR BACK AS WE COULD AND THEN WE WERENT GOING ANYWHERE ELSE SO
OBVIOUSLY HAD HIT SOMETHING SO PUT IT INTO PARK AND THEN WE JUST SAT THERE AND HELD EACH

LAMANNA 12
OTHERS HANDS AND JUST WAITED IT OUT
THE NOISE FINALLY STOPPED IT TOOK LITTLE BIT BUT IT STARTED TO BECOME DAYLIGHT
JUST REMEMBER SAYING OH MY GOD LOOK AT THIS THIS IS AWFUL TOOK SPLIT SECOND TO LOOK
OVER TO WHERE WE HAD JUST BEEN PARKED AND IF WE HADNT MOVED THE AMBULANCE WE PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BEEN DEAD BECAUSE THERE WAS HUGE HUGE BEAMS AND GIRDERS AND EVERYTHING ELSE SITTING RIGHT WHERE WE WERE COULD SEE THERE WAS AN AMBULANCE IN FRONT OF US SOMEWHERE IN FRONT OF US THAT WAS ON FIRE LITTLE BIT AHEAD IT WAS JUST LIKE EVERYTHING WAS CRUSHED AND MANGLED AND COVERED WITH THAT BIG WHITE GRAY DUST
WE DECIDED LETS GET OUT LETS GET OUR HELMETS ON WE HADNT EVEN GOTTEN THAT FAR YET
LETS GET OUR HELMETS ON LETS GET OUR EQUIPMENT AND LETS GET OUT OF HERE AND GET TO
AND SEE WHAT WE CAN FIND AS FAR AS
SAFETY
PATIENTS ALONG THE WAY OR WHATEVER
WE NO SOONER JUMP OUT OF THE AMBULANCE WHEN ONE OF THE EMTS THAT KNOW FROM THE BRONX
DROPS RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME IM LIKE OH MY GOD EDDIE HE WAS IN EXTREME PAIN AND

LAMANNA 13
EVERYTHING IM LIKE WHAT HAPPENED HES
LIKE HE DOESNT KNOW HES TOTALLY IN SHOCK
AND OUT OF IT HES SCREAMING MY ARM AND MY BACK
AT THAT POINT JUST SCOOPED HIM UP
WE RAN AROUND TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AMBULANCE WE SAT HIM ON THE SIDE OF THE AMBULANCE FOR NOW UNTIL WE COULD FIGURE OUT AND GET OUR HEADS TOGETHER AND GET HELMETS ON AND EVERYTHING HES
OF HIS ARM AND HIS BACK LOOKED AT HIS ARM AND COULD SEE IT WAS OBVIOUSLY BROKEN
IN THE MEANTIME AS WE WERE DOING ALL THIS ONE OF THE EMTS FROM THE ANR BUS THAT WE FOLLOWED IN CAME RUNNING OVER DONT KNOW WHO IT IS OR WAS HE CAME RUNNING OVER AND SAID
OH MY GOD OH MY GOD CANT FIND MY PARTNER HAVE YOU SEEN MY PARTNER IM LIKE NO WHO IS YOUR PARTNER NUMBER ONE NUMBER TWO WERE NOT EVEN THINKING THAT FAR YET
HAVE ONE OF US IN FRONT OF ME AND WERE TRYING TO GET OUR EQUIPMENT TOGETHER
SOMETHING JUST HAPPENED WERE NOT EXACTLY SURE WHAT HAPPENED WERE NOT SEEING IT LIKE THE
PEOPLE SAW IT ON TV WE JUST KNEW THERE WAS
COMPLAINING

LAMANNA 14
NOISE MEAN WE COULD SURMISE APPROXIMATELY BUT WE DIDNT REALLY KNOW BECAUSE WE WERE SO
CLOSE THAT WE STILL HAD LOT OF BUILDINGS IN FRONT OF US
SO HES FREAKING OUT HES RUNNING ALL OVER THE PLACE THEN ANOTHER MEDIC FROM UP HERE
IN THE BRONX JOE JEFFERSON RAN INTO HIM HE HAD BEEN SEPARATED FROM HIS PARTNER SO HE HAD VERY LITTLE EQUIPMENT ON HIM SO WE TOOK HIS
EQUIPMENT
WHAT HE HAD
MIND YOU DIDNT GO OUT AS MEDIC
THAT DAY ALL HAD WAS MONITOR AND TUBE KIT WE TOOK THE MONITOR AND THE TUBE KIT AND
WHAT LITTLE EQUIPMENT HE HAD AND THINK WE HAD THE TRAUMA BAG ON US TOO YEAH WE HAD THE TRAUMA BAG BUT NOTHING AS FAR AS DRUG BAGS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT OR ANYTHING WITH SYRINGES WHAT DID WE DO WITH THE TRAUMA BAG YOU KNOW WHAT DONT REMEMBER IF WE HAD THE TRAUMA BAG OR NOT
ANYWAY WE JUST THREW EVERYTHING ON THE STRETCHER AND WE PUT EDDIE IN THE STAIR CHAIR
WHILE WE WERE DOING THIS ANOTHER THINK HE WAS AN EMT FROM HAZOLLAH VOLUNTEER CAME RUNNING

LAMANNA 15
OVER HE HAD BEEN SEPARATED FROM HIS CREW WE WERE LIKE RAG TAG BUNCH
HE SAID YOU KNOW WHAT IM GOING TO GO OVER TO THAT BUILDING POINTING TO THINK IT
WAS 72 POST OR WHATEVER IT WAS CALLED RIGHT NEXT TO THE MARRIOTT IM GOING TO SEE IF ITS SAFE
IN THERE
BY THE TIME BACKED UP AND EVERYTHING WE WERE SITTING IN FRONT OF THE MARRIOTT PRETTY MUCH SO IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE NEXT BUILDING OVER SO HE WENT RUNNING IN AND HE CAME BACK AND SAID IT LOOKS SAFE AS SAFE AS IT CAN BE WHO KNOWS WE DONT KNOW WHATS GOING TO HAPPEN NOW THIS THAT AND THE OTHER
SO WE JUST GRABBED EVERYTHING WE COULD GRABBED EDDIE AND WHEELED HIM OVER WE WENT INTO
THIS BUILDING AND TOOK REALLY GOOD LOOK AT HIM IT WAS LIKE THERE WERE OTHER PEOPLE THERE CIVILIANS AND STUFF FROM DIFFERENT PLACES THAT HAD RUN INTO THERE GUESS DURING THE FIRST COLLAPSE
SO WE TOOK LOOK AT HIM AND HE WAS
REALLY SAYING IM REALLY HAVING HARD TIME BREATHING IM REALLY HAVING HARD TIME

LAMANNA 16
BREATHING BY THIS TIME WE WERE ABLE TO DO SOMEWHAT MORE COMPLETE ASSESSMENT ON HIM
WE SPLINTED HIS ARM AND WE TOOK LOOK AT HIS BACK HE HAD HUGE HOLE IN HIS BACK ON THE RIGHT SIDE WE MADE AN OCCLUSIVE DRESSING
AND PUT THAT ON HE KEPT SAYING AS TIME WENT ON IM REALLY HAVING HARD TIME BREATHING ON THE
SIDE
SO JOE AND LOOKED AT EACH OTHER AND
WENT OH GOD THIS GUY IS GOING INTO
PNEUMOTHORAX AND WE DONT HAVE THE EQUIPMENT HERE
TO BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS IM
THINKING JESUS HES GOING TO DIE RIGHT IN FRONT OF US AND THERES NOTHING MUCH WE CAN DO
THERES SO MUCH WE CAN DO WHEN WE DONT HAVE ALL
SO AT THAT PARTICULAR POINT WE HAD MADE THE DECISION ALL OF US THAT WE WERE GOING TO
MOVE FARTHER UP TOWARDS THE PARK TOWARDS BATTERY PARK FOR TWO REASONS NUMBER ONE WE WERENT SURE IF WE WERE COMPLETELY SAFE WHERE WE WERE TWO WE HAD TO FIND AN AMBULANCE OR SOMETHING TO TRANSPORT EDDIE OUT OF THERE
SO TOOK THE STRETCHER FULL OF
RIGHT

LAMANNA 17
TO MANAGE TO FIND THIS BIG BARREL TUB WHATEVER FULL OF WATER WE SAID WERE GOING TO NEED THAT NOT ONLY FOR DRINKING BUT TO IRRIGATE EYES AND WHATEVER ELSE
SO HES DRAGGING THAT IM TAKING THE STRETCHER FULL OF EQUIPMENT JOE HAS THE STAIR
CHAIR WITH EDDIE AND OFF WE GO JOE AND EDDIE WERE IN THE FRONT WAS IN THE MIDDLE AND
FREDDIE WAS IN THE BACK WE WERE ALL SCATTERED WE WERE ALL ABOUT QUARTER OR HALF BLOCK APART BUT THEYRE SMALL BLOCKS DOWN THERE
RIGHT
SO AT ONE POINT LEFT THE EQUIPMENT BECAUSE WANTED TO GO BACK AND SEE HOW FAR BACK
FREDDIE WAS TO HELP MOVE HIM ALONG IN CASE HE WAS HAVING PROBLEMS COULD DEAL WITH THAT AND
THEN WE COULD SWITCH OFF SO ON AND SO FORTH
SO WENT BACK AND COULDNT FIND HIM AT
FIRST DIDNT KNOW WHERE HE WAS IM LIKE
ALL RIGHT HELL CATCH UP TYPE OF THING DIDNT WANT TO LEAVE THE EQUIPMENT TOO LONG BECAUSE THE MONITOR WAS THERE DONT KNOW
JOE TOOK THE STAIR CHAIR WITH EDDIE
EQUIPMENT
MARTINEZ MY PARTNER ALONG THE WAY WE SEEMED

LAMANNA 18
WHATEVER IM THINKING MORE AHOUT THE EQUIPMENT AT THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT SO OFF WENT BACK TO
THE EQUIPMENT
NO SOONER GET BACK TO THE EQUIPMENT
AND GO NO MORE THAN FIVE FEET AND THE NOISE STARTED AGAIN THE SECOND ONE COMING DOWN OF COURSE DIDNT KNOW IT AT THE TIME BUT HERE IT
WAS AGAIN
AT THAT SPLIT SECOND THAT LOOK UP NOW THE STAIR
RIGHT AFTER CHAIR IS EMPTY
DONT KNOW WHERE
AND JOE AND EDDIE ARE GONE
THEY WENT TO IN THAT SECOND THEY WERE GONE AT THAT POINT LOOK AROUND TO SEE IF CAN SEE FREDDIE AGAIN AND ALL SEE IS THIS BIG MOUNTAIN OF DEBRIS AND SMOKE AND EVERYTHING COMING TOWARDS ME IM LIKE SCREW THE EQUIPMENT IM RUNNING AND OFF GO AS FAST AND FAR AWAY AS MY LEGS
WOULD TAKE ME
IM LOOKING FOR SOMEPLACE TO DUCK IN COULDNT FIND ANYPLACE TO DUCK IN THERE WAS
NOTHING REALLY THERE THIS STUFF IS REALLY RIGHT NEXT TO ME IT WAS REALLY RIGHT BEHIND ME AT
THIS POINT HAD TO MAKE DECISION TO DO SOMETHING ANYTHING

ALL OF EYE SAW BLACK
LAMANNA 19
SUDDEN OUT OF THE CORNER OF MY
JEEP WITH ITS HEADLIGHTS AND WENT OVER REALLY QUICK AND
BRAKE LIGHTS ON
ITS UNDER ONE OF THOSE BUILDINGS THAT CUT THROUGH FROM ONE STREET TO ANOTHER SO IT WAS ONLY LIKE LITTLE UNDERPASS
RIGHT
COULDNT GET IN THE CAR SO JUST
STAYED NEXT TO IT AT THAT POINT IT WAS ALL OVER ME EVERYTHING WAS ON ME COULDNT SEE
COULDNT HEAR COULDNT BREATHE THIS STUFF WAS SO THICK THAT WAS BREATHING IN THOUGHT
OH GOD IM GOING TO DIE SAID IM GOING TO DIE HERE ALONE HOW NICE THATS WHAT WAS
RUNNING THROUGH MY HEAD
IT FELT LIKE FOREVER AND EVERY ONCE IN
WHILE WOULD SQUEAK OUT HELP JUST SO COULD HEAR ANOTHER HUMAN VOICE IM NOT HURT
PER SE BUT DIDNT WANT TO FEEL LIKE WAS TOTALLY ALONE OF COURSE NO ONE ANSWERED ME
BECAUSE THEY COULDNT HEAR ME BECAUSE COULDNT HEAR ANYTHING AND COULDNT SEE ANYTHING
DONT EVEN KNOW HOW MUCH TIME WENT BY IT TOOK WHILE IT FINALLY STARTED TO

LAMANNA 20
DISSIPATE JUST BIT AND SCREAMED OUT HELP COUPLE MORE TIMES AND FINALLY GOT AN ANSWER
THEY SCREAMED OUT WHERE ARE YOU IM LIKE DONT KNOW OVER HERE DIDNT KNOW WHERE WAS OVER HERE HE SAID FOLLOW MY VOICE IM LIKE OKAY
IM SEARCHING WITH MY EYES AGAIN SO
DONT BUMP INTO ANYTHING
ITS STILL PRETTY HIM AND HES
DARK FINALLY BUMP
FIREFIGHTER FROM FDNY HE WAS TO THIS DAY
INTO
TRIPPED OVER HIM NOW HE WAS THERE
THAT TIME
DISSIPATED TOGETHER
RIGHT
HE SAID OKAY FOLLOW ME BECAUSE BY
NOW ITS DAYLIGHT AGAIN IT HAD
WE JUST STARTED WALKING OUT OF THERE
IT WAS JUST TOTAL MESS MEAN THE THE LEVEL OF DUST AND DEBRIS WAS INCHES
COULDNT TELL YOU WHO WOULDNT KNOW HIM IF
DEBRIS
THICK LIKE
SIX INCHES DEEP WHATEVER IT WAS JUST THE
DEBRIS AND FIRE AND EVERYTHING ALL OVER THE PLACE AND PEOPLE SCREAMING AND YELLING AND RUNNING
SNOWSTORM LIKE THREE FOUR FIVE
WAS HAVING HARD TIME BREATHING WAS HAVING HARD TIME SEEING BECAUSE EVERYTHING

LAMANNA 21
WAS IN MY EYES AND IN MY THROAT AND IN MY MOUTH
AND EVERYTHING
WE WALKED LITTLE BIT TOWARDS THE
PARK AND WE CAME ACROSS THIS TRUCK THAT SAID
FDNY COMMAND CENTER SO WE FIGURED IT WAS GOOD ENOUGH PLACE TO CHECK IN TO BY THIS TIME THE RADIOS GOING CRAZY WE COULDNT GET WORD IN EDGE WISE AND THEY COULDNT HEAR ME TRIED TO GO OVER THE AIR TO TELL THEM LOST MY PARTNER
AND WHATEVER
NOT THAT ANYBODY WAS REALLY INTERESTED ONLY BECAUSE THEY KEPT SAYING GET OFF THE AIR EVERYBODY NOT TO ME BUT TO EVERYBODY BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO MAKE SURE THEY GOT THE IMPORTANT STUFF THROUGH
SO WE WENT TO THE COMMAND CENTER AND
KNOCKED ON THE DOOR FIREFIGHTER LET US IN THE FIRST THING SAID TO THEM WAS ARE WE SAFE
IN HERE HE SHRUGGED HIS SHOULDERS AND DONT KNOW SAID WELL THAT MAKES ME FEEL SO MUCH
BETTER
HE WAS LIKE WHERE ARE YOU FROM SAID IM FROM THE BRONX WORK OUT OF BATTALION 14 LOST MY PARTNER LOST MY

LAMANNA 22
VEHICLE AND WHAT DO DO NOW HE WAS LIKE HANG OUT HERE FOR NOW UNTIL WE FIGURE SOMETHING OUT KEPT SAYING TO HIM WELL ARE WE SAFE IN HERE IM THINKING JESUS WENT THROUGH THIS TWICE CANT GO THROUGH THIS ANYMORE HES LIKE DONT KNOW HE WAS HONEST HE DIDNT KNOW IM LIKE OH ALL RIGHT IT STILL DOESNT MAKE ME FEEL ANY BETTER
SO THEN ABOUT COUPLE MINUTES LATER HE
SAID TO ME WELL HEAR THEYRE SETTING UP TRIAGE AREA IM LIKE OKAY WHERE HE SAID OVER AT THE STATEN ISLAND FERRY TERMINAL
OKAY WHERE IS THAT FROM HERE DONT KNOW THAT DONT KNOW MANHATTAN VERY WELL HE
SAID UP COUPLE BLOCKS OR SO INTO THE PARK IN THAT AREA BATTERY PARK IM LIKE OKAY JUST POINT TO ME SORT OF WHERE AND ILL GO CANT STAY HERE
SO HE SORT OF GAVE ME AN IDEA
WELL THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND ILL FIND MY WAY BECAUSE JUST COULDNT STAY THERE DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN IF
SAID
SOMETHING ELSE WAS GOING TO HAPPEN PLUS
NEEDED TO GO WHERE KNEW EMS WOULD BE AS FAR AS

LAMANNA 23
BEING ABLE TO HELP SOMEONE ELSE TOO AND SO ON AND SO FORTH
OFF WENT GOT ABOUT BLOCK AND AN AMBULANCE WENT BY IM LIKE BANGING WAIT
WAIT WAIT WAIT FOR ME WAIT FOR ME IM
SCREAMING LIKE STUPID THING THEY FINALLY STOPPED AND JUMPED IN THE BACK THERE
DOCTOR AND COUPLE OF EMTS THEY WERE OFF TO FIND BABY WITH ASTHMA WHERE THEYRE GOING TO FIND THIS IN THE MIDST OF ALL OF THIS DONT KNOW IM LIKE ALL RIGHT WHATEVER
SO WE ENDED UP GOING ANOTHER BLOCK OR SO AS FAR AS DISTANCE WISE AND WE ENDED UP
NEAR THE VEHICLE STOPPED THE DOOR OPENED AND THERE WAS JERRY JERRY HES ONE OF THE
DIVISION ALS COORDINATORS BACCHUS JERRY BACCHUS
SO THE DOOR OPENS AND JERRY BACCHUS IS STANDING THERE IM LIKE OH MY GOD JERRY THANK GOD THANK YOU FACE KNOW IT MADE ME FEEL LITTLE BIT BETTER TO SEE SOMEBODY THAT
ACTUALLY KNEW BECAUSE BY THIS TIME OF COURSE HAD BEEN SEPARATED FROM FREDDIE AND ALL THE
PEOPLE
HAD BEEN EARLIER DIDNT KNOW WHERE

ANYBODY WAS
LAMANNA 24
HE JUMPED IN AND STARTED PULLING THINGS OUT AND WHATEVER WAS HAVING LOT OF TROUBLE
BREATHING SO HE PUT ME ON NEBULIZER TREATMENT BECAUSE MY PUMP JUST WASNT DOING THING
HAVE LITTLE BIT OF ASTHMA BUT IT WHEN GET SICK SO DID THAT
IN THE MEANTIME CHIEF
THERE TOO HE USED TO WORK OUT OF OMA NOW HES OVER AT DOWNTOWN AT GOUVENEER BATTALION
HIRTH
HUH
HIRTH
NO NOT HIRTH HES AN OLDER
GENTLEMAN HES AT OMA HES NEWER HE JUST MADE CHIEF LIKE RIGHT BEFORE THAT HE WAS
CAPTAIN
OH STEFFENS
YES CHIEF STEFFENS THATS IT THANK CHIEF STEFFENS
HE WAS THERE TOO HAD ONLY KNOWN HIM FROM JUST OMA BECAUSE WENT THERE ONCE SAW HIM HE WAS TRYING TO COORDINATE THINGS THERE
WERE JUST FEW OF US HERE AND THERE THERE
YOU
ONLY ACTS UP
CHIEF WAS

LAMANNA 25
WERENT LOT OF US AT ALL THERE WAS ONLY TEN
OF US MAYBE GIVE OR TAKE COUPLE OF MEDICS AND THINK THE REST WERE PRETTY MUCH BLS
AT THAT POINT WE STARTED GETTING LOT
OF PEOPLE COMING TOWARDS US AS FAR AS HAVING DIFFICULTY BREATHING AND STUFF IN THE EYES AND
EVERYTHING SO WE STARTED TREATING FOR THAT
THEN IT WAS DECIDED WE WOULD START PUTTING PEOPLE
ON BOATS AND GET THEM OUT OF THERE
SO WE WERE DOING THAT WE WERE PUTTING
WHATEVER WE COULD ON BOATS AND JUST SENDING THEM WHEREVER THEY WERE GOING STATEN ISLAND JERSEY CITY JERSEY WHEREVER JUST TO GET THEM OUT OF
THERE BECAUSE WE DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN EVEN NEXT
REMEMBER
LIKE OH MY GOD WE WERE IN TROUBLE THEN
OKAY THATS FIRST 16S FLYING OVER NEW YORK
ANYWAY WE EVENTUALLY GOT MOST OF THEM OFF ONTO BOATS THAT CAME TO US ANYWAY LOT OF FIREFIGHTERS WANTED TO BE TREATED AND THEY
WHILE WE WERE DOING THAT HEARING PLANE FLYING OVERHEAD IM
OH MY GOD NOT AGAIN NOT AGAIN
WE ALL LOOKED UP AND THERE WERE 16S WAS
THINKING LOOKED UP

LAMANNA 26
WENT RIGHT BACK TO THE SCENE THERE WAS JUST NO
WAY OF KEEPING THEM OUT
ALSO ENDED UP RUNNING INTO CHIEF
BROWN BOBBY BROWN HE AND THE PERSON HE WAS
WITH WERE JUST WALKING AIMLESSLY DONT KNOW WHERE THINK THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN HEADED FOR
THE TERMINAL EVENTUALLY BUT MAYBE NOT WHO KNOWS THEY WERE LIKE IN SHOCK LIKE THE REST OF
US
SO EXPLAINED TO HIM THAT WAS WITH CHIEF STEFFENS OVER THERE IN THIS PORT THERE
WAS BIG PORT JUST REMEMBER BIG CIRCULAR PORT
SO WE ENDED UP SPENDING THERE PROBABLY ABOUT 130 200
THE BIG PORT
FEW HOURS IN THE
AFTERNOON SOME OF THESE CELL PHONES STARTED COMING BACK UP AGAIN PEOPLE WERE ABLE TO GET
OUT COUPLE AND LET THEM
OF CALLS SO CALLED MY GIRLFRIEND
HYSTERICAL COULD FEEL
WAS DOWN THERE WOMANS INTUITION
TO LET HER KNOW THAT
SHE KNEW WAS DOWN THERE SHE
SO JUST TOLD HER TOLD HER WAS OKAY WOULD GET BACK IN TOUCH WHEN COULD AND
SHE WAS

LAMANNA 27
GAVE HER FEW NUMBERS TO CALL TO CALL PEOPLE BECAUSE DIDNT WANT TO TIE UP THE LINES THAT MUST HAVE BEEN AROUND 200 IN THE AFTERNOON
THEN ABOUT AN HOUR LATER WE FINALLY
ALL OF US MOVED OVER BECAUSE PEOPLE STARTED
THERE WASNT ANYBODY ELSE REALLY COMING TO US IN THAT PARTICULAR AREA ANYMORE SO AT THAT POINT WE PICKED UP AND WE MOVED EVERYTHING OVER TO THE FERRY TERMINAL AND WE SPENT THE REST OF THE DAY THERE
WE DIDNT HAVE TOO MANY PEOPLE COMING WE EXPECTED LOT OF PEOPLE BUT AS YOU KNOW
THERE WERENT THAT MANY PEOPLE COMING OUT SOME RESCUE WORKERS WHO HAD MINOR INJURIES
LACERATIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT THROUGHOUT THE
DAY HAD JUST SOME DIFFICULTY BREATHING AND ALL HAD TO GO BACK ON THE NEB LITTLE BIT
MOST OF THE TIME IT WAS JUST SITTING THERE IN TRANCE LIKE ALMOST JUST LIKE SHOCK TRYING TO TAKE THIS IN BUT NOT REALLY UNDERSTANDING WE HEARD LITTLE BITS AND PIECES
ON THE RADIO THAT WAS IN THE AMBULANCE WE FOUND OUT THAT THE PENTAGON HAD BEEN HIT AND SUPPOSEDLY THEY WERE LOOKING FOR FOUR OTHER PLANES OR

LAMANNA 28
SOMETHING THERE WAS WHOLE HIG THING THAT THEY WERE GOING THROUGH SO WE ONLY KNEW BITS AND PIECES
THEN AROUND 415 OR SO 430 ISH
DONT KNOW SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN THE AFTERNOON
IS WHEN SEVEN WENT DOWN WE COULDNT SEE THE BUILDING ITSELF GO DOWN BUT WE SAW ALL THE DEBRIS AND EVERYTHING KICKED UP AND THE SMOKE KICK UP AGAIN WENT TO SOMEONE AND SAID WHAT HAPPENED THEY TOLD ME THEY HEARD ON THE RADIO THAT SEVEN HAD JUST GONE DOWN
SO WE WERE THERE JUST ALL DAY
DIDNT GET OUT OF THERE UNTIL CLOSE TO MIDNIGHT
DIDNT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT FREDDIE FOR THE
MOST PART HAD BEEN ASKING PEOPLE ALL DAY NO ONE HAD SEEN OR HEARD FROM HIM FINALLY RAN INTO CHIEF VILLANI AT 400 IN THE AFTERNOON AND
WAS EXPLAINING TO HIM THAT WAS UPSET
DIDNT KNOW HOW MY PARTNER WAS THAT CAME DOWN
WITH THAT DAY AND EVERYTHING
WHOS YOUR PARTNER TOLD HIM WHO
HE IS OH SAW HIM IM LIKE DID YOU SEE HIM BEFORE OR AFTER THE SECOND COLLAPSE HE
SAID AFTER THE SECOND COLLAPSE SAID OKAY

LAMANNA 29
THAT MEANS HES OKAY HE WAS DOING THE SAME HE DIDNT KNOW ABOUT ME TYPE OF THING
SO AROUND MIDNIGHT WELL BEFORE THAT THEY WERE SENDING PEOPLE OUT LITTLE BY LITTLE
ABOUT MIDNIGHT MY TURN CAME UP THE PROBLEM WAS HAD NO VEHICLE HAD NO WAY OF GETTING BACK
UP TO THE BRONX SO WHAT HAPPENED WAS GOT TRANSPORTED TO BATTALION FROM THERE MANAGED TO HITCH RIDE TO BELLEVUE FROM THERE
HITCHED RIDE TO METROPOLITAN FROM THERE
HITCHED
LINCOLN
ABOUT IT
WAY BUT IT WAS EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES
RIDE TO HARLEM AND FROM HARLEM TO MEAN THE CREWS WERE REALLY NICE
THEY WENT LITTLE BIT OUT OF THEIR
RIGHT
SO DIDNT GET BACK TO THE STATION
UNTIL CLOSE TO 1230 QUARTER TO ONE WAS JUST COVERED FROM HEAD TO TOE AND EVERYTHING WAS AFRAID TO TOUCH MY HAIR THAT IT WOULD FALL APART BECAUSE IT WAS SO BRITTLE ENDED UP HAD TO TAKE OFF ALL MY CLOTHES AND STUFF BEFORE
WENT HOME ENDED UP JUST PUTTING LIKE
HOSPITAL THING ON WAS LIKE WHATEVER
FINALLY GOT ALL THAT DONE AND HEADED ON OUT OF

LAMANNA 30
THERE AFTER 100
BY THAT TIME HAD ALREADY SPOKE WITH
LIEUTENANT DESANTIS HE UPSET ME LITTLE BIT DURING THE DAY BECAUSE AT ONE POINT WHEN
FINALLY GOT THOSE WERE THE TWO PHONES CALLS MADE MADE ONE TO MY GIRLFRIEND LISA AND MADE ONE TO HIM AT 200 IN THE AFTERNOON
HE GETS ON THE PHONE AND HES LIKE WHERE ARE YOU IM LIKE DONT KNOW
EXACTLY THINK IM SOMEWHERE IN BATTERY PARK
SAID CANT FIND FREDDIE DONT KNOW WHATS GOING ON HE SAID WELL THIS IS WHAT WANT YOU TO DO WANT YOU TO FIND YOUR PARTNER FIND YOUR BUS AND BRING THEM BACK UP SO CAN PUT THEM OUT AS LINE UNIT
IM LIKE WHAT DO YOU HEAR ME DONT KNOW WHERE FREDDIE IS DONT KNOW IF
HES DEAD OR ALIVE AMBULANCE LEFT
DONT THINK HAVE AN SAID THERES NO WAY AND LITTLE UPSET ABOUT THAT
WHATEVER SO WAS
HE DIDNT EVEN BOTHER ASKING ME IF WAS OKAY
SPOKE TO HIM LATER IN THE DAY HE
WAS APOLOGETIC HES LIKE IM SORRY HOPE YOURE OKAY SAID HAVE YOU HEARD FROM

FREDDIE HES LIKE
JUST TELLING
LAMANNA
NO IM
31
YOU RIGHT NOW IM LETTING YOU KNOW WILL NOT BE IN TOMORROW ONLY NEED ONE DAY ILL BE BACK
JUST NEED ONE DAY NEED TO GET MY HEAD TOGETHER AND WHATEVER AND MAYBE DO SOME CSID
OR SOMETHING
SO THE NEXT DAY WENT TO CSID TOOK
THE DAY OFF THEN CAME BACK ON THURSDAY THE 13TH OF COURSE THEY KEPT ME FOR OVERTIME SO
WORKED DOUBLE SO ON AND SO FORTH THEN WENT BACK THAT WEEKEND BECAUSE WANTED TO TRY TO GET
SOME CLOSURE
GOT LITTLE BIT BUT HOW MUCH HAD TO TRY TO MAKE PEACE WITH IT
YOU CAN GET LITTLE BIT WAS OUT
ENDED UP CATCHING PNEUMONIA SO LITTLE WHILE WITH THAT
ITS JUST FUNNY HOW YOUR MINDS WORKS AND THE THINGS YOU THINK ABOUT OR DONT THINK ABOUT REMEMBER WHEN JUMPED OUT OF THE VEHICLE AND FOUND EDDIE AND BROUGHT HIM THERE BUT THEN THE BUS STARTED TO MAKE FUNNY NOISE
BECAUSE ALL THIS STUFF GOT SUCKED INTO WHATEVER SYSTEMS
SO WENT BACK TO TURN IT OFF AND MADE SURE TURNED THE BATTERY OFF LOCKED UP

LAMANNA 32
THE DOORS REMEMBERED OH MY GOD MY BACKPACK SHOULD TAKE IT IM GOING TO TAKE
IT TOOK MY BACKPACK THREW IT ON MY BACK
HAD THAT ON MY BACK IT WAS JUST CERTAIN MOTIONS THE
ALL DAY
WEIRD HOW YOU GO THROUGH
VEHICLE AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED WAS ALL LOCKED UP IN THE FRONT THERE
WAS LOT OF DAMAGE TO THE HOOD AND OTHER PLACES TO THE VEHICLE THAT WAS DONE THAT WAS
BETWEEN THE TWO COLLAPSES DIDNT KNOW WHAT HAD HAPPENED AFTER THE SECOND COLLAPSE AS FAR
AS KNEW WE DIDNT EVEN HAVE VEHICLE
ALTHOUGH THAT THING HAS NINE LIVES IT CAME BACK
AGAIN WERE NOT IN IT ANYMORE THAT WAS ENOUGH OF 448 FOR ME
DO HAVE ONE SOUVENIR OF THAT DAY THAT DONT LEAVE YOU KNOW HOW THEY SAY
AMERICAN EXPRESS YOU SHOULDNT LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT HAVE THE KEY TO 448 OF COURSE THEYVE CHANGED THE LOCKS SINCE THEN BUT THIS IS WHAT HAVE LEFT OF THAT DAY TO REMIND ME AT LEAST DURING THE FIRST COLLAPSE THIS VEHICLE SAVED MY LIFE AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED
THEY NEVER MADE STINK ABOUT IT SO
ALTHOUGH

LAMANNA
WALK AROUND WITH IT EVERYWHERE
LITTLE SILLY BUT DONT KNOW DEAL WITH IT
WHATEVER WORKS
33
KNOW IT SOUNDS THATS HOW
ONE LAST THING JUST FEEL BAD FOR
ALL THE LIVES THAT WERE LOST KNEW COUPLE OF PEOPLE THAT HAD JUST TRANSFERRED OVER FROM EMS TO FDNY DIDNT KNOW ANYONE ELSE PER SE EXCEPT BY REPUTATION OR WHATEVER IT WAS GREAT LOSS NOT
ONLY FDNY BUT PD BUT ALSO WHICH WERE ALWAYS FORGOTTEN EMS WE LOST TEN PEOPLE NOT ALL WITHIN
FDNY BUT VOLUNTARIES DIFFERENT VOLUNTEERS PRIVATES EVERYBODY THEYRE JUST AS MUCH AS
IMPORTANT AS ANYBODY ELSE
BUT MY HEARTS GO OUT TO THEIR FAMILIES
AS WELL AS ALL THE CIVILIANS THAT WERE LOST THAT
DAY HOW ODD IM LOOKING AT PICTURE OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER FOUND IT BEAUTIFUL
PICTURE THOUGH
BUT YEAH MY HEART GOES OUT TO THEM
THANK GOD EVERY DAY THAT IM HERE THERES DAYS WONDER WHY IM HERE WHY WAS SPARED WHEN
OTHERS HAD SO MANY IM NOT MARRIED DONT HAVE ANY CHILDREN BUT OTHERS DID SO THERE ARE DAYS

LAMANNA
WONDER WHY ME WHY NOT SOMEBODY ELSE IT JUST WASNT MY TIME BUT SOMETIMES
HAVE ONE QUESTION SURE
34
GUESS ASK WHY
WHEN YOU WERE HEADING DOWN TOWARDS ACTUALLY WHEN YOU WERE HEADING DOWN TOWARDS THE
BATTERY WERE YOU COMING DOWN THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY
NO WAS THINK GOING EAST OH HAD COME FROM NO CAME FROM THE EAST SO
CAME OFF THE FDR
NO AFTER THE COLLAPSES
OH AFTER THE COLLAPSES WITH JEFFERSON AND
RIGHT
LIBERTY
RIGHT WE STARTED HERES LIBERTY
SO WE STARTED YEAH WE WERE HEADED TOWARDS DONT KNOW IS THAT CONSIDERED THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY OR IS IT STILL CONSIDERED WEST STREET
THINK ITS STILL CONSIDERED WEST STREET
OKAY
SO WE WOULD HAVE BEEN WALKING DOWN WEST
STREET TOWARDS GUESS BATTERY PARK GUESS

LAMANNA 35
THATS WHAT IT IS IM NOT HUNDRED PERCENT SURE STILL TO THIS DAY BUT THINK THATS WHAT IT IS BATTERY PARK
YEAH
SO WE WERE HEADING TOWARDS BATTERY PARK
DOWN WEST STREET
DID YOU EVER CATCH UP AGAIN WITH
JEFFERSON
JEFFERSON DIDNT SEE UNTIL WEEKS HAD BUT HAD HEARD THAT HE HAD SUFFERED
GONE BY
MINOR INJURIES BUT THAT HE WAS OKAY EDDIE
MARTINEZ IT TURNED OUT HE DIDNT END UP GETTING
PNEUMOTHORAX BY SOME MIRACLE DONT KNOW HOW
HE GOT TRANSFERRED PUT ON ONE OF THE BOATS NOT WITH US BUT SOMEBODY ELSE PUT HIM ON
ONE OF THE BOATS AND HE ENDED UP OVER IN JERSEY CITY HE HAD TO GET SOME PINS AND STUFF IN HIS ARM AND THEY HAD TO DO SURGERY TO REMOVE LOT OF SHRAPNEL OUT OF HIS BACK
HE FINALLY STARTED MAKING INQUIRIES
HE WENT LOOKING FOR ME AND JOE JEFFERSON BECAUSE
HE THOUGHT WE WERE THE ONES THAT FOUND HIM ORIGINALLY AFTER AS FAR AS UNDERSTAND HE

LAMANNA 36
GOT THERE JUST AS THE SECOND PLANE HIT SO
ORIGINALLY
RIGHT
HIS TIME LINE WAS LITTLE CONFUSED
HE DIDNT REALIZE WHERE HE ENDED UP AFTERWARDS BECAUSE HE STARTED FARTHER OVER AS FAR AS KNOW HE STARTED OVER NEAR VESEY
THINK UP TOWARDS VESEY AND CHURCH SO HE ENDED UP WAY OVER FROM WHERE WE WERE
GOT HIS NUMBER HE LEFT HIS NUMBER
WITH MY PARTNER MY ACTUAL PARTNER DALE AND CALLED HIM UP ONE DAY AND WE TALKED WE HAD
NICE CONVERSATION HE CALLED US HIS ANGELS WE WERENT WE WERE JUST THERE WE TOOK CARE OF HIM MEAN WE SPOKE FOR QUITE WHILE HE THANKED ME HE WANTED TO GET TOGETHER SOME DAY HE WAS GOING UP NORTH
AS MATTER OF FACT SAW HIM WE HAD CHRISTMAS PARTY FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE TWO
FDNY EMS THAT WE LOST LILLO AND QUINN SO HE WAS THERE AND HE WAS DOING MUCH BETTER

LAMANNA 37
FREDDIE BY THE TIME GOT BACK HE HAD ALREADY LEFT TO GO HOME DIDNT ACTUALLY SEE
HIM UNTIL THURSDAY THE 13TH IS WHEN FIRST
HIM THE FIRST TIME WE JUST WENT OVER AND LIKE HUGGED EACH OTHER WITH LITTLE TEARS HERE AND THERE WE BOTH LIVED THROUGH SOMETHING WE BOTH LIVED THROUGH THE FIRST ONE TOGETHER AND THE SECOND ONE WE HAD TO DO SEPARATELY NEITHER OF US DIDNT LEAVE OUR MINDS
NEED TO GO ON DUTY
MR RADENBERG THE TIME IS NOW 1530
AND THIS IS THE CONCLUSION OF THE INTERVIEW
SAW

FILE NO 9110485
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW PARAMEDIC JOEL PIERCE
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 23 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY NANCY FRANCIS

PIERCE
MS BASTEDENBECK TODAY IS JANUARY 23RD 2002 THE TIME IS 1416 HOURS MY NAME IS CHRISTINE BASTEDENBECK LIEUTENANT WITH THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT IM AT EMS BATTALION 57 CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME RANK AND UNIT THAT
YOURE ASSIGNED JOEL
BATTALION 57 JOEL
SEPTEMBER 11TH YES
MORNING
TO
DANIEL PIERCE PARAMEDIC 3927 35 ZEBRA
WERE YOU ON DUTY THE MORNING OF 2001
WAS
YOU ASSIGNED TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
WAS
WERE
YES
CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT THE EVENTS OF THAT
MY PARTNER AND WERE SITTING UP BY MCCARREN
WE HEARD SIGNAL 1040 GO OVER THE AIR
PARK WHEN
DIDNT KNOW WHAT 1040 WAS SO PULLED OUT MY LITTLE
READY MEDIC BOOK AND LOOKED AT IT AND TOLD MY PARTNER IT WAS AN AIRLINE INCIDENT
DO YOU KNOW WHO YOUR PARTNER WAS THAT DAY ERIC RODRIGUEZ PARAMEDIC RODRIGUEZ SHIELD
2526 SO WE HEARD MULTIPLE UNITS BEING ASSIGNED

PIERCE
FROM BATTALION 31 TOLD TO SWITCH TO
CITYWIDE SO SAID THIS HAS TO BE PRETTY BIG SO SWITCHED OVER MY PORTABLE TO CITYWIDE AND YOU DIDNT HEAR MUCH AT THE MOMENT UNTIL YOU HEARD BELIEVE IT WAS ONE OF THE CONDITION BOSSES IN THE CITY SCREAMING
ON THE RADIO BASICALLY SEND EVERYTHING THAT THE CITY HAS TO OFFER BECAUSE IT WAS PRETTY BAD SO TOLD MY PARTNER WHO WAS DRIVING THAT DAY TO DRIVE DOWN TO THE WATERFRONT SOMEWHERE BY KENT AND BELIEVE WE CAME OFF OF NORTH 12TH AS WE ROUNDED THE TURN WE SAW THE
NORTH TOWER ON FIRE AND WE WERE JUST AWESTRUCK BY WHAT WE SAW WE PARKED THE VEHICLE ON KENT GOT OUT STOOD THERE MY PARTNER CALLED HIS WIFE JUST STOOD THERE STARING AND THEN WATCHED EVENTUALLY THE SECOND
PLANE SAW IT IT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS CIRCLING COMING SOUTH THEN CAME BACK NORTH STRIKING THE SOUTH SIDE OF TOWER NO GOT PRETTY SICK TO THE STOMACH AT THAT POINT EVENTUALLY THE BROOKLYN NORTH DISPATCHER CONTACTED US AND ADVISED US THAT WE WERE HEADING TO MANHATTAN AT THAT TIME TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
WE HEADED OVER THE BRIDGE THE WILLIAMSBURG BRIDGE AND MY EYES WERE JUST FIXED ON WHAT WAS COMING OUT OF THE TOWERS THE SMOKE AS WE GOT DOWN THERE WE DIDNT EXACTLY KNOW WHERE THE MAIN TRIAGE AREA WAS OR
IMMEDIATELY

PIERCE
STAGING AREA WAS THERE WAS JUST SO MANY PEOPLE
RUNNING ALL OVER THE PLACE AND MY PARTNER AND WE HAD NO CLUE AS TO WHERE WE WERE GOING THEN WE FOUND
OURSELVES OVER WE CAME BACK AROUND AND WE WERE ON
WEST SIDE HIGHWAY OR WEST STREET BY LIBERTY NOTICING BUNCH OF AMBULANCES PARKED ON THE WEST SIDE OF WEST
SIDE HIGHWAY NEXT TO NO WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER
SO WE PULLED OVER WE SET OUR VEHICLE UP UNDERNEATH THE PEDESTRIAN WALK ON LIBERTY STREET BETWEEN WEST AND BELIEVE ITS SOUTH END AVENUE WE WERE THERE FOR BIT AND
AT THE TWO TOWERS AND
MUST HAVE COUNTED ABOUT EIGHT PEOPLE ONE OF THEM WAS ON FIRE AS HE HIT THE GROUND THOUGHT IT WAS JUST PIECE OF BURNING DEBRIS COMING DOWN UNTIL MY PARTNER SAID THATS
JUST STOOD THERE LOOKING JUST WATCHED PEOPLE JUMPING
UP
PERSON JUMPING
WAS WITH SOME CAPTAIN DONT KNOW WHERE
HE WAS FROM SAID BOSS THIS IS NOT GOOD SPOT TO BE SITTING MEAN STUFF FROM THAT FAR UP CAN EASILY
GET CAUGHT IN THE WIND AND COME OVER TOWARDS US HE AGREED AND WE SAID LETS GET THESE VEHICLE AROUND THE CORNER ON SOUTH END AND THATS WHERE WE ENDED UP MY PARTNER DROVE THE VEHICLE RIGHT OVER HERE JUST AROUND THE CORNER OF LIBERTY THATS WHERE WE PUT THE

VEHICLE
PIERCE
WHERE YOU MADE THE ON THE MAP
CORRECT MULTIPLE VEHICLES ALONG THE SIDE HERE REMEMBER SEEING THE HATZOLAH MERV OVER HERE
THINK THAT RESCUE PULLED UP OVER HERE MULTIPLE FIRE UNITS THERE WERE LOT OF OTHER UNITS FROM
METROPOLITAN FDNY EMS AND OTHER VOLUNTARY UNITS
PULLING UP SO THEY WERE ALL LINING UP AND DOWN THIS ROAD HERE THE CAPTAIN ASKED ME TO MAKE SURE EACH UNIT
WAS NOT GOING TO BLOCK THEMSELVES IN AT LEAST ONE PERSON WOULD STAY WITH THEIR UNIT SAID SURE SO RAN UP AND DOWN MADE SURE THEY WERE SETTING UP THEIR
EQUIPMENT HAVE THEIR IVS IF THEYRE ALS START SETTING UP THEIR BAGS
AS CAME BACK TO REPORT TO HIM SAW THAT CHIEF MCCRACKEN CHIEF GRANT THEIR AIDES AND SOME OTHER OFFICERS WERE AT THE CORNER OF LIBERTY STREET AND SOUTH END AVENUE CHIEF GRANT NOTICED ME THAT WAS THERE PULLED HIM ASIDE ADVISED HIM WHAT WAS GOING ON OVER HERE AND THAT WAS GOING TO HEAD BACK OVER ONTO THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY OVER HERE AND ADVISE THOSE GUYS TO GET AROUND THE CORNER OVER HERE HE SAID THATS GOOD IDEA LETS GET THEM OFF THE HIGHWAY
JUST AS STARTED WALKING BACK JUST BEFORE THAT

PIERCE
CATWALK ON THE CORNER SOME MAYBE 20 FEET GUESS 50 FEET HEARD THIS SOUND
YOU WERE ON LIBERTY STREET THEN
YES IT WAS RIGHT AROUND HERE GUESS WHERE THE IS ON THIS MAP ITS AROUND THIS AREA THIS
GENERAL VICINITY WHERE THE GROUP WAS CLUSTERED MCCRACKEN AND ALL THE OTHER OFFICERS AND THEIR AIDES
WERE THATS WHEN WE HEARD THAT SOUND AGAIN AND SWEAR IT SOUNDED LIKE ANOTHER PLANE COMING IN JUST
THAT RUMBLING NOISE THAT STEADILY THAT CONTINUOUS RUMBLING THAT WAS GETTING LOUDER AND LOUDER AND
THINK THE LAST WORDS HAD WERE OH GOD NOT ANOTHER ONE SO WE ALL RAN WE GOT OURSELVES IN THIS LITTLE CORNER RIGHT OVER HERE RIGHT BY THE HEXAGON HERE AND WE ALL JUST KIND OF COWERED UNDERNEATH THIS LITTLE OVERHANG RIGHT UP AGAINST THE LOBBY WINDOWS THERE WAS NO PLACE TO RUN
THE LOBBY WINDOWS OF WORLD FINANCIAL
FINANCIAL YES THE HEXAGON PART
OKAY
THERES LITTLE CORNER RIGHT OVER HERE AND
THATS WHERE WE BASICALLY JUST CROWDED TOGETHER AND
KEPT OUR HEADS DOWN AND THE RUMBLING NOISE JUST GOT IMMENSE AT THAT POINT AND KIND OF LOOKED UP AND ALL

PIERCE
SAW WAS THIS HUGE DUST CLOUD GOING RIGHT BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDINGS HERE BETWEEN AND RIGHT WHERE THE GOING LITERALLY BETWEEN ON LIBERTY STREET AND IT WAS JUST THIS HUGE WALL LIKE THIS PERFECT WALL OF DUST
IT SLAMMED INTO GATEWAY PLAZA ACROSS THE STREET FROM US
AND THEN IT BASICALLY ROLLED RIGHT BACK AT US AND
SAID OH SHIT THIS IS IT HERE WE GO
WE WERE ALL HOLDING HANDS WITH EACH OTHER
WHEREVER YOU FOUND HAND YOU GRABBED IT AND YOU JUST HELD ON UNFORTUNATELY HAD MCCRACKENS HAND AND
HES GOT SOME PRETTY BIG HANDS HE SQUEEZED MY HAND PRETTY GOOD BUT THINK WE WERE ALL PRETTY FRICKING
SCARED AT THAT POINT WE WERE ALL PRAYING QUITE LOUDLY TOO IM JEWISH AND THINK WAS SAYING HAIL
MARYS WAS JUST JOINING WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE WAS DOING YOU JUST DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON OTHER
THAN THE FACT THAT HERE WAS THIS CLOUD OF DUST COMING RIGHT AT YOU AND YOU YOURE JUST CONVINCED THAT THIS IS IT THIS IS OVER WITH BECAUSE YOU DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE IS COMING WITH IT
SO BASICALLY JUST HELD MY BREATH AND JUST WAITED AND JUST FELT THAT BLAST OF AIR AND DUST COME
RIGHT AT ME THE GLASS HELD UP WE WERE PRETTY AMAZED ABOUT THAT TOOK BREATH STARTED GAGGING THERES

PIERCE
DELI RIGHT ON THE SIDE HERE THERE WAS AN OPEN DOOR ALL SAW WAS THIS DOOR SO LIKE CREATED HUMAN CHAIN OF PEOPLE AND JUST LED THEM THROUGH THIS DOOR THIS LITTLE DELI SAID JUST FOLLOW THIS AND FOLLOW THE BUILDING HEAD SOUTH
WENT BACK DONT KNOW TRIPPED ON SOMETHING BANGED MY FOOT AND SOME GUY FELL ON TOP OF
ME PICKED HIM UP PULLED HIM AWAY CAME BACK TO WHERE WE WERE AND ALONG THE SIDE THE WESTERNMOST SIDE
IT WAS LIKE NOTICED LOT OF THE GLASS WAS STILL INTACT YOU COULD SEE LIKE MAYBE FOUR OR FIVE PANES OF GLASS STILL HELD UP AND THEN HEARD SOMEBODY BANGING ON THE OTHER SIDE SO BELIEVE IT WAS MYSELF AND SOMEONE ELSE WE SMACKED THE WINDOW OUT WALKED INTO THE LOBBY AREA OF WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER YELLED INSIDE IF ANYBODY WAS IN THERE AND THIS GUY YELLED OUT YEAH SAID CAN YOU SEE MY FLASHLIGHT HES
LIKE YEAH SAID WELL WALK INTO THE LIGHT NOT EXACTLY THE WORDS YOU WANT TO HEAR SAID BUT HE KIND
OF GOT TO ME AND GRABBED HIM AND DRAGGED HIM OVER TO WHERE THE BROKEN WINDOW WAS AND SAID GET OUT THROUGH HERE AND GO
PROCEEDED ACROSS THE LOBBY TO THE OTHER SIDE CLOSER TOWARDS LIBERTY STREET THE NORTHEASTERN

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CORNER JUST ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE CROSSING THE HIGHWAY AND WALKED OUT ALL THE GLASS
WINDOWS WERE COMPLETELY SMASHED OUT ON THE EAST AND NORTH SIDES OF THE HEXAGON PART WALKED OUT WALKED
AROUND WAS LIKE JUST DIDNT SAY MUCH AT ALL
WAS LOOKING AT ALL THE BURNING VEHICLES NOTHING BUT BURNING VEHICLES OUTSIDE ALL THE AMBULANCES
WALKED OFF INTO THE STREET AREA AND THINK
THATS WHERE FOUND CHIEF WELLS CHARLIE
WAS KIND OF LIKE CRAWLING IN THE DUST
HIS NAME HE KIND OF PICKED HIS HEAD UP
TO HIM PICKED HIM UP AND DRAGGED HIM OVER TOWARDS THE WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER AND GUESS THATS WHERE THE SHOCK OF EVERYTHING REALLY KICKED IN NOW BECAUSE JUST LOOKED WAS LIKE WHERE THE HELL IS THE TOWER WHERE IS EVERYTHING DID THEY BOTH COME DOWN DIDNT
KNOW JUST STOOD THERE AND THEN HE HAD TO KIND OF
VERBALLY SLAP ME NOT PHYSICALLY JUST LIKE JOEL WAKE UP WAKE THE FUCK UP WE NEED YOU HERE EXCUSE ME WE NEED YOU HERE ON THIS AND KIND OF SNAPPED TO IT
AGAIN
WALKED AROUND GRABBED SOME HELMETS COP HELMETS THAT WERE LIKE LAYING ALL OVER THE PLACE GAVE
THEM TO PEOPLE WHO DIDNT HAVE HELMETS LOOKED AROUND
WELLS WHO
YELLED OUT RAN OVER

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SEE IF COULD FIND ANYBODY SEE IF THEY NEEDED HELP MOST PEOPLE WERE WALKING WOUNDED THINK THAT WAS IT
REALLY LOT OF PEOPLE WERE UNIFORMS JUST TOTALLY WALKING AROUND LIKE THEY WERE GHOSTS THEY WERE LIKE
IT WAS JUST AMAZING WHAT JUST HAPPENED
HELPED OUT MOVING THINGS AROUND GETTING
PEOPLE MAKING SURE EVERYTHING WAS OKAY INSPECTING
SOME OF THE AMBULANCES LOOKING INSIDE DIDNT FIND ANYBODY IN NONE OF THEM HEADED BACK TOWARDS MY BUS BECAUSE REALIZED MY PARTNER WAS MISSING WE WENT BACK THERE FOUND HIM COMING TO ME AND HES LIKE WHERE THE HELL WERE YOU WAS LIKE WHERE THE HELL WERE YOU HE TOLD ME THAT HE WAS WE WENT BACK OVER TO THE AMBULANCE AND WE FOUND IT COMPLETELY COVERED IN DUST AND DEBRIS THE BACK WINDOW WAS SMASHED OUT IT LOOKED LIKE IT TOOK BEATING JUST ALL THIS CRAP THAT WAS ON IT
HE SAYS THERES AN EVACUATION IN EFFECT WERE GETTING THE HELL OUT OF HERE WAS LIKE YEAH
OKAY SO HE SAID THE VEHICLES DEAD ITS SHOT BECAUSE IT WAS RUNNING AT THE TIME SO IT MUST HAVE
SUCKED UP ALL THAT DUST AND IT CLOGGED UP THE VENTS AND
EVERYTHING FIGURED THE BEST THING TO DO WAS BECAUSE IM HAZMAT TRAINED IM TRAINED WITH THE SCBAS
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TO GRAB MY AIR BOTTLE BE GRABBED BIS WE GRABBED OUR FACE MASKS AND THEN THIS AMBULANCE WAS PULLING AWAY AND WE JUMPED IN THE BACK OF THAT AND WE HEADED DOWN SOUTH END DOWN TOWARDS THE WATERFRONT AS FAR AS IT WOULD GO
AT THIS TIME ONLY THE FIRST TOWER HAD
COLLAPSED
THE FIRST TOWER HAD COLLAPSED CORRECT THATS AS FAR AS WE KNOW MEAN YOU COULDNT SEE
ANYTHING IT WAS JUST SUCH HUGE DUST CLOUD YOU JUST DIDNT SEE DAMN THING OTHER THAN YOU DID SEE SOME
DEBRIS AND IT WAS LIKE LARGE PIECES OF BUILDING AND
JUST NOTHING BUT DUST CLOUD
SO WE GOT DOWN THERE THERE WAS THIS CHURCH
DOWN THERE WE JUST KIND OF LIKE ALL HUNG AROUND WE JUST SAT THERE AND WE WERE LIKE WHAT JUST HAPPENED
MEAN WE WERE JUST STILL EVERYBODY WAS IN AWE MORE
AMBULANCES WERE SHOWING UP FROM MULTIPLE AGENCIES AGAIN WAS TASKED WITH BECAUSE HAD NO AMBULANCE
LEFT SO ITS LIKE MY PARTNER AND WERE PRETTY MUCH USELESS AT THE MOMENT UNLESS THEY ACTUALLY WERE GOING
TO SET UP TRUE TRIAGE AREA WE HAD NO EQUIPMENT OTHER THAN OUR AIR BOTTLES THIS ONE LIEUTENANT SAID GO TO EACH AMBULANCE AND MAKE SURE IF THEYRE ALS TO
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HAVE THEIR LIGHTS FLASHING AND IF THEYRE BLS TO HAVE THEM TURNED OFF AND EACH ALS UNIT SET UP THEIR
EQUIPMENT APPROPRIATELY GET THEIR IVS HUNG UP AND GET READY FOR CASUALTIES WAS LIKE SURE SO RAN UP AND DOWN DOING THAT MADE SURE EVERYTHING WAS ALL SET UP
AFTER FINISHED THAT CAME BACK AND
FOUND MY PARTNER PUFFING AWAY AT SOME OXYGEN GO WHATS THE MATTER WITH YOU HE SAID GOT CHEST PAIN
AND HES LIKE DONT YOU DARE CALL THE LIEUTENANT OVER SO WAS LIKE YEAH OKAY SO WAS LIKE IS IT BECAUSE OF THE DUST HE GOES YEAH SO FIGURED IT WAS BECAUSE HE SUCKED SO MUCH DUST IN LIKE MYSELF AND HE SAID MY CHEST IS BURNING FROM ALL THE DUST LIKE ALL RIGHT JUST CHILL FOR MOMENT ILL BE BACK CAME BACK AND HE LOOKED EVEN WORSE AND WAS LIKE
YOURE GOING TO THE HOSPITAL WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT AND
HE STARTED ARGUING WITH ME SAID DONT FUCK WITH ME
YOURE GOING TO THE HOSPITAL THEY HAD PHYSICIAN COME OVER THAT WAS DOWN THERE VOLUNTEERING SO HE
LOOKED AT HIM LOOKED AT HIS EKG DID SOMETHING HE SAID YOURE GOING TO VINNYS AND THATS FINAL SO
SAID LISTEN JUST DO IT GO BE SAFE DONT BE
STUPID ILL BE ALL RIGHT SO ACTUALLY EXCUSE ME
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JUST BEFORE THAT WAS ALONG THE WATERFRONT
ESPLANADE IM SORRY OKAY GO AHEAD
ALONG THE ESPLANADE WHERE PEOPLE WERE COMING DOWN THE WATERFRONT THERE THERE WERE LOT OF PEOPLE
RUNNING DOWN SO WAS ESCORTING DOWN THIS WAY TOWARDS WHERE THE BOATS WERE TO GET THEM OVER TO GUESS
LIBERTY ISLAND OR TO THE JERSEY SIDE OR WHEREVER THE BOATS WERE TAKING THEM TO SAW THIS ONE BOAT WITH
CAMERA CREW ON IT DONT KNOW IF YOURE FAMILIAR
WITH IT BUT THE GREEN MONSTER THEY CALL IT ITS LIKE
HIGH SPEED TOUR BOAT THAT RACES UP AND DOWN THE WATER AROUND THE ISLAND GIVES TOUR OF THE ISLAND WELL SAW THEM WAVED THEM OVER AND TOLD THEM GO AROUND SOUTH COME AROUND AND TURN TO WHERE THE BULKHEADS ARE AND START PICKING UP PEOPLE AND GET THEM OUT OF HERE AND THEY LISTENED TO ME THEY ACTUALLY DID THAT IT WAS PRETTY GOOD
REMEMBER SEEING THIS ONE LIEUTENANT FROM
THINK ENGINE 229 THATS THE AREA UP IN GREENPOINT WHERE COVER MOSTLY SO WAS LIKE YOURE FROM 229 HE GOES YEAH WHO ARE YOU OH YOURE FROM THAT AMBULANCE AROUND THE AREA YEAH HE SAID LISTEN DO YOURSELF FAVOR AND GET OUT OF HERE THINK JUST AS
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ABSOLUTELY WAS GETTING
SOMETHING SOMETHING
NOTHING HES GONE GOT NOTHING AND VERY ITCHY WHEN START WANTING TO DO
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WAS HEADING SOUTH AGAIN THATS WHEN THE NORTH TOWER COLLAPSED BECAUSE REMEMBER SEEING ANOTHER HUGE CLOUD OF DUST BASICALLY JUST COVER THIS WHOLE AREA GOING TO THE WEST SIDE ALL OVER TOWARDS THE HUDSON RIVER AREA
MADE IT BACK DOWN TOWARDS JUST BEFORE THE
BATTERY HERE DONT KNOW WHAT STREET THAT IS BUT
THATS WHEN MY PARTNER STARTED HAVING MORE PROBLEMS AND HE WAS TOLD YOURE OUT OF HERE AFTER WE WERE AT THIS
ONE PARK RESTING FOR MOMENT NOW WERE WITH ALL THOSE AMBULANCES IM JUST SITTING THERE DOING
GET ITCHY IM LIKE HAVE TO DO CANT JUST SIT ON MY LAURELS AND DO
NOTHING THATS JUST NOT MY STYLE
TOLD THIS ONE LIEUTENANT SAID IM
BACK UP THERE IM DOING NOTHING HERE THIS IS
WHY ARE WE SITTING HERE DOING NOTHING HES LIKE HANG OUT HERE PIERCE DONT YOU DISAPPEAR ON ME THEN
STOOD AROUND WAITING WAITING WAITING WAITING
WAITING IT WAS JUST WAITING PERIOD AND IT WAS DRIVING ME ABSOLUTELY FUCKING INSANE MEAN LITERALLY WAS REALLY GOING NUTS SO WAS LIKE LISTEN AT ONE POINT WAS LIKE GOT NO GIRLFRIEND
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GOING BS

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NO DEPENDENTS IM NOT WORRIED DONT KNOW IF ITS
LIKE SUPERMAN FEELING OR SOMETHING BUT HAD TO GET UP THERE BECAUSE KNOW PEOPLE NEEDED MY HELP AND THAT
WAS IT
SO SPOKE WITH ANOTHER LIEUTENANT DONT KNOW WHO IT WAS MAYBE LIEUTENANT SOTO SAID GOT TO GO BACK UP THERE HE SAYS WELL LET ME GO WITH YOU
LITTLE BIT ILL SEE HOW FAR IT IS HE WAS LIKE HOW FAR AWAY IS IT WAS LIKE AROUND FOUR BLOCKS LIED TO HIM IT WAS LITTLE FARTHER THAN FOUR BLOCKS BUT WE GOT UP THERE HE BECAME THE TRIAGE LIEUTENANT AND WAS HIS AIDE FOR THE DAY BETWEEN ONE LIBERTY PLAZA AND ENGINE 10LADDER 10 SO BASICALLY WE JUST STAYED THERE THE ENTIRE NIGHT JUST TRANSPORTING PATIENTS BACK AND FORTH GETTING UP TO LIBERTY TRIAGE WHERE DID SOME WORK IN HELPING OUT AS WELL THATS WHAT DID ALL NIGHT MAYBE HAD TWO HOUR CATNAP ON THE MARBLE FLOOR AT ONE LIBERTY PLAZA WOKE UP AGAIN NOT EVEN
YOU KNOW SOMETHING LIKE THAT
REMEMBER AT ONE POINT WAS BACK DOWN THINK WAS DOWN BY IN FRONT OF ENGINE 10LADDER
10 NO WAS IN FRONT OF LIBERTY PLAZA AND THEY
SAID THEY NEEDED MORPHINE DOWN THERE THEY FOUND SOMEBODY INSIDE AND THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE HIS
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LEGS OFF AND THEY NEED MORPHINE THEY SAW ME AND THEY SAID ARE YOU MEDIC GO YEAH YOU GOT MORPHINE
GO YUP THE GUY WHO WAS WITH ME HE SAID YOURE COMING WITH ME AND THEY PHYSICALLY GRABBED ME THEY SAID YOURE COMING WITH US THEY SAID YOURE COMING WITH
US WE NEED YOU NOW WE NEED YOUR DRUGS
AT THAT POINT FOUND MYSELF ON THE PILE AND
DONT KNOW IF IT FELT LIKE WAS HALLUCINATING
BECAUSE JUST LOOKING AROUND WAS UP ON TOP OF THAT PILE GOOD WAY IN IT WAS HOT AND WAS LOOKING AT ALL
THESE HOLES DOWN IT WAS LIKE ONE WRONG STEP AND IM DEAD IF FELL INTO THAT LITTLE HOLE IM DEAD AND
THAT WAS IT BECAUSE
COULD SEE THE REDNESS
LIKE THE PITS OF HELL
GUESS YOU COULD CALL IT
SOUTH TOWER BETWEEN THE SOUTH TOWER AND NEAR THE HOTEL AND IT WAS SOMETHING JUST BEING THERE ALL THE
COULD SEE THE FLAMES BELOW YOU KNEW IF WENT IN IT WAS
IT
WAS LIKE DANTES INFERNO WAS IN THE REMAINS OF THE
WAY IN DONT KNOW HOW FAR IN
BEEN GOOD 200 FEET IN WHEN WAS GOING UP AND DOWN
THESE PILES OF DEBRIS THEN GOT CALLED OUT AND
LEARNED THAT THEY MANAGED TO FREE THE GUYS LEGS UP SO THAT MADE ME HAPPY GOT OUT OF THERE CLIMBED ALL THE WAY BACK ASSISTED WITH THE HOSE PULLING BECAUSE
WAS MUST HAVE
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IN THERE SO WAS PART OTHER FIREMEN AND ALL
TOOK BREAK AGAIN
1010 SAT THERE DRANK HAD SOME FLUIDS AND THINK THATS WHERE SAW CHIEF TRAMONTANA HE CAME OVER TO ME HE SAYS ARE YOU ALL RIGHT JUST LOOKED AT HIM
WAS LIKE HOW CAN ONE NOT FEEL ALL RIGHT LOOK WHAT JUST HAPPENED ALMOST HAD BRUSH WITH DEATH HE SAID ALL RIGHT JUST TAKE BREAK RELAX
WORKED THROUGH THE NIGHT MET UP WITH SOME OTHER PEOPLE EMT BRUCE HYDOCK BATTALION 57 EMT RICHARDSON BATTALION 57 WHO ELSE EMT JASON STEELE BATTALION 57 THOSE ARE THE ONLY FAMILIAR FACES CAN REMEMBER IN FACT ITS FUNNY BECAUSE YOU COULDNT EVEN RECOGNIZE THEM AT FIRST BECAUSE THEY HAD TO REMIND ME WHO THEY WERE
TOOK MINOR BREAK AND WENT BACK DOWN TO 1010 MET UP WITH THIS LIEUTENANT FORGOT WHO IT
SAID LISTEN BOSS IM GOING TO TAKE WALK OVER BY LIBERTY AND SEE WHAT MY AMBULANCE
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THEY NEEDED LOT OF FIRE HOSE OF THE HOSE LINE WITH LOT OF THE RESCUE WORKERS
WAS AND
OVER TO
LOOKS LIKE
WAS COMPLETELY BLOCKED UP BETWEEN GREENWICH AND
WASHINGTON
FROM THE DEBRIS FROM THE SOUTH TOWER SO
HEADED BACK OVER TO
STARTED WALKING DOWN LIBERTY BUT THAT

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REMEMBER WALKING DOWN GREENWICH DOWN ALBANY AND COMING BACK AROUND FOUND MY AMBULANCE AND IT WAS
PUSHED OVER TO THE SIDE THINK THINK SOME EARTH MOVERS OR SOMETHING CAME OVER AND PUSHED IT OVER TO THE
SIDE OUT OF THE WAY
WALKED OVER TO WHERE WAS TAKING COVER
WALKED BACK GOT SOMETHING TO DRINK SOMETHING TO MUNCH ON AND THINK THATS WHEN WAS JUST LIKE SOMEWHERE
BY ENGINE 10LADDER 10 KIND OF LAID DOWN FOR MOMENT ON LONG BOARD AND THINK THATS WHERE
REALLY STARTED TO PASS OUT WHEN THINK CAPTAIN OLSEN THINK IT WAS DONT KNOW WHO THINK IT WAS
CAPTAIN OLSEN WHO ORDERED ME TO GO TO THE COMMAND POST WHICH WAS FAR UP ON THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY BY GUESS
ST JOHNS DONT KNOW WHERE THEY SET IT UP BY THE SCHOOL
PUBLIC
THE COLLEGE OR THE HIGH SCHOOL
THERE WAS HIGH SCHOOL SOME SCHOOL SCHOOL
STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL
MAYBE THAT WAS IT THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN IT
HE WALKED ME INSIDE THERE AND THEN FOUND COT OVER BY SOME TRIAGE AREA AND JUST WALKED OVER TO IT AND
JUST COMPLETELY FELL ASLEEP GOT UP LIKE TWO HOURS
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LATER WALKED OVER ACROSS THE HIGHWAY TO THE COMMAND POST
HOW DID YOU GET BACK TO YOUR BATTALION WAS DRIVEN BACK CAPTAIN BURNS SAW ME
FRIEND OF HERS WAS HEADING BACK TO BROOKLYN AND HE SAID HE WOULD GIVE ME RIDE BACK WHICH HE DID HEADED BACK
APPROXIMATELY WHAT TIME DID YOU GET BACK TO BATTALION 57
DONT KNOW MAYBE 1200 OCLOCK GUESS CANT REMEMBER
MIDNIGHT YOU MEAN
DAY
THE NEXT DAY
THE NEXT DAY
THE NEXT AFTERNOON
ALL KNOW IS WAS ON THE CLOCK FOR ABOUT 32
STRAIGHT HOURS WAS ON THE CLOCK THAT LONG THEN JUST BUNCH OF PEOPLE APPROACHED ME AND
SHOWERED UP UP THERE AND CLEANED UP HAD ALL MY STUFF PUT IN RED BAGS BECAUSE THERE WAS JUST SO MUCH BLOOD ON
OKAY
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THEM AND EVERYTHING
THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH IT FOR THAT DAY THEN
DIDNT GO BACK THERE TO WORK ON ONE OF THE STANDBY UNITS THE ALS UNITS FOR LIKE ABOUT MAYBE TWO WEEKS
STAYED AWAY FROM THERE WAS DEFINITELY THERE FOR LONG TIME PEOPLE WERE TELLING ME YOU WERE CONSIDERED MIA FOR LONG TIME THATS PLEASING TO KNOW TO FIND
OUT THAT WAS MISSING IN ACTION BUT WAS GUESS TO SOME PEOPLE MY RADIO DIDNT WORK AT ONE POINT GUESS DONT KNOW WHY IT DIDNT WORK SO THEY SAID THEY WERE CALLING FOR YOU LIKE CRAZY BECAUSE THEY
DIDNT KNOW WHERE YOU WERE WAS LIKE ME NEITHER THERE WERE NO STREET SIGNS EVERYTHING WAS SMASHED DOWN
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO ADD TO THE EVENTS OF THAT DAY
DONT KNOW WHAT THERE IS TO ADD IF IVE FORGOTTEN SO MANY THINGS OR IF THEY STICK IN MY HEAD
MAYBE SOME THINGS ARE JUST BEING RECESSED AWAY AND THEN ITS GOING TO COME OUT IN THE WRONG MOMENTS IVE
FORGOTTEN LOT OF STUFF IVE FORGOTTEN NAMES OF
PEOPLE GUESS MY MEMORY SPAN IS KIND OF SHOT TO HELL LITTLE BIT IM STILL COUGHING LOT AND DONT
EVEN SMOKE THATS ALL CAN THINK OF RIGHT NOW
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MS BASTEDENBECK OKAY THIS INTERVIEW IS CONCLUDED THE TIME NOW IS 1449 HOURS THANK YOU VERY
MUCH JOEL
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PARAMEDIC PIERCE YOURE WELCOME

FILE NO 9110486
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT JASON CHARLES
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 23 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY NANCY FRANCIS

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MR ECCLESTON TODAYS DATE IS JANUARY 23RD 2002 THE TIME IS 2112 HOURS AND MY NAME IS
CHRISTOPHER ECCIESTON OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE AM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME JASON CHARLES
YOUR RANK EMT
SHIELD 5114
AND YOUR ASSIGNED BATTALION 13
MR CHARLES WERE YOU ASSIGNED TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER DISASTER
NO WASNT
DID YOU RESPOND TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER DISASTER ON 911
YES DID
IN YOUR OWN WORDS COULD YOU PLEASE TELL ME ABOUT THE EVENTS OF THE DAY
YES
WE GOT TO MADISON

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AND 28TH STREET WHEN WE SAW ME AND MY SON SAW BLACK SMOKE HAD THOUGHT IT WAS JUST REGULAR STRUCTURAL FIRE SO TOLD MY SON LISTEN LETS MY SON MIND YOU IS ONLY THREE YEARS OLD SAID LETS GO CHECK OUT THIS FIRE SO WE START WALKING DOWN THE BLOCK AND WE GET UP TO FIFTH AVE AND LADY WALKS UP TO ME AND SAYS PLANE HIT THE TRADE CENTER AND LOOKED AT HER LIKE SHE WAS CRAZY SAID IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN HELICOPTER NOT PLANE SO KEPT WALKING GOT TO BROADWAY AND NOW COULD SEE THE SMOKE JUST TRAVELING EAST OVER THE CITY AND ANOTHER GUY WALKED UP TO US AND SAID PLANE HIT THE TOWERS SO SPEEDED UP MY
WALKING TO SIXTH AVE PUT MY SON ON BIKE AND WE GOT TO SIXTH AVE AND SAW THE GIANT HOLE IN TOWER
AS IM STARING AT THE HOLE IN TOWER
WALKED ACROSS THE STREET ACROSS SIXTH AVE TO THE WEST
SIDE OF SIXTH AVENUE TO SEE TOWER AND AT THE TIME TOWER WAS INTACT IT WASNT TOUCHED YET LOOKED DOWN AT MY SON AND REPEATED TO HIM COULDNT BELIEVE WHAT WAS GOING ON AND TOLD HIM OH MY GOD AND HEARD PEOPLE CALLING OH MY GOD LOOK LOOK AND AS LOOKED UP THE SECOND PLANE HIT THE SECOND TOWER AND THERE WAS HUMONGOUS FIREBALL ROLLING UP THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING WHAT DELAYED REACTION HEARD WAS THE

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SOUND ITSELF THE EXPLOSION ITSELF
SO LOOKED BACK DOWN AT ANY SON AND SAID
BABY WE HAVE TO GO HOME THINKING TO
INAUDIBLE
MYSELF JESUS THEYRE GOING TO NEED EVERY LAST EMS PERSONNEL IN THE CITY TO GO DOWN SO HESITANTLY SCRAMBLED ALONG THE STREET AT ONE POINT LOST MY SON FOR MAYBE MINUTE AND LOOKED FOR HIM AND THEN
FOUND HIM GOT HIM BACK ON THE BIKE WE RODE BACK ACROSS THE STREET STARTED DIALING NUMBERS TO CALL
MY BROTHER MY WIFE AT THE TIME ME AND HER WERE
BROKEN UP SO WE WERE JUST GETTING BACK TOGETHER SO STARTED LOOKING FOR ANYBODY TO CALL TO TAKE MY SON
SO REMEMBERED THE BABY SITTER SO SHOOT BACK DOWN 28TH STREET OVER TO SECOND AND THIRD TAKING MY TIME MAKING SURE DIDNT GET INTO AN ACCIDENT WITH MY SON SO IT TOOK ME PROBABLY ABOUT TEN MINUTES FROM SIXTH AVE TO SECOND AND THIRD WITH MY SON WE GET UPSTAIRS KNOCK ON THE BABY SITTERS DOOR AND SHE IMMEDIATELY TAKES MY SON OUT OF MY HANDS SHE DOESNT EVEN ASK ME WHATS GOING ON SO SHE TAKES MY SON AND GIVE HER SOMETHING ELSE HAD ON MY BIKE AND SHE GOES YOU GOING DOWN THERE GO YEAH SHE GOES YOU WANT TO LOOK OUT MY WINDOW TOLD HER NO IM GOING TO GET BETTER VIEW

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AS IM WAITING FOR THE ELEVATOR FOR SOME REASON THE ELEVATORS BROKE DOWNBOTH OF THEM SO NOW IM WAITING ANOTHER FIVE TEN MINUTES FOR THE ELEVATORS AND IM LIKE GETTING MORE AND MORE FRUSTRATED AS IM WAITING FOR THE ELEVATORS AND THEN SAID SCREW IT THREW THE BIKE ON MY BACK AND RAN DOWN LI FLIGHTS OF
STEPS GOT DOWNSTAIRS JUMPED ON MY BIKE GOT MYSELF TOGETHER CHECKED THE GEARS OF MY BIKE MADE
SURE HAD AIR IN MY TIRES AND THEN TOOK OFF
TOOK OFF TO 27TH STREET BECAUSE YOU CAN CUT
THROUGH THE BLOCKS BETWEEN THE BUILDINGS AND TOOK
OFF 27TH STREET MADE LEFT CUT DOWN TOWARDS SECOND AND THEN MADE QUICK RIGHT GOING TOWARDS THE TRADE CENTER IM RIDING ON THE CURB AND SEE FIRE TRUCK TO MY LEFT AND SPEED UP PEDDLING AND JUMP OFF THE CURB NEXT TO THE FIRE TRUCK LANDING PROBABLY ABOUT
FOOT AWAY FROM THE TRUCK FIREFIGHTER ON THE TRUCK LOOKS AT ME AND HES LIKE HOLY YOU KNOW LIKE HE COULDNT BELIEVE IT AND NOW IM RIDING NEXT TO THE
FIRE TRUCK SPEEDING DOWN SECOND AVE WHICH IS SLIGHT DOWNHILL DIDNT EVEN GET THE ENGINE NUMBER IT WAS AN ENGINE TRUCK BUT DIDNT GET THE ENGINE NUMBER
SO IM RACING DOWN SECOND AVE WITH ALL THE EMERGENCY VEHICLES LIKE FOLLOWING BEHIND FIRE

TRUCK BRAKES GETTING
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COME UP ONTO STATION WAGON CUT MY
AND JUST MISSED PINNED BETWEEN
THE STATION WAGON ALMOST BUS SO NOW IM FLYING YOU
BUS AND STATION WAGON TO PULL OFF TO THE LEFT AGAIN TO ALMOST GET HIT BY AN
ESU TRUCK SO NOW AT THIS POINT IM PASSING Z3RD
STREET AND THE SPACE BECOMES TIGHT BETWEEN ANOTHER BUS AND VAN AND BARELY SQUEEZED THROUGH THAT AND IM FLYING DOWN THE STREET DOWN SECOND AVE AND NOW IM PASSING THE POLICE ACADEMY WHICH THINK IS ON 21ST STREET 21ST STREET BETWEEN SECOND AND THIRD AND SEE
KNOW
SQUEEZED JUST BETWEEN
WITH THE BARRICADES NEXT TO THE BARRICADE AND HES LOOKING LIKE HE WANTS TO GO HES
LIKE YOU KNOW HE LOOKED LIKE HE WAS ALL AMPED AS IM PASSING HIM HE JUST WANTED TO IT WAS LIKE HE WANTED TO JUMP IN THE NEXT VEHICLE AND GO
SO KEEP RACING DOWN THERE GET TO ABOUT BETH ISRAEL HOSPITAL DONT KNOW IF ITS 16TH STREET 15TH STREET AND START TO LOSE ALL MY ENERGY THE FIRST WAVE OF EMERGENCY VEHICLES HAD LEFT ME AT ABOUT 15TH STREET KEPT PEDALING STOPPED AT 14TH
STREET BECAUSE OF THE LIGHT WASNT ABOUT TO GET HIT BY ANOTHER BUS GOING CROSSTOWN SO START PEDDLING AGAIN AS THE LIGHT TURNS GREEN AND START PICKING UP
COP STANDING

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LITTLE BIT AND THEN HEAR SECOND WAVE OF
MY SPEED
EMERGENCY VEHICLES COMING AND THEY GAVE ME THE SECOND ADRENALINE RUSH SO STARTED RACING WITH THEM AND IM RACING ALONGSIDE OF THE ESU TRUCK FOR GOOD BLOCK AND THEN THE STREETS JUST OPENED UP AND THEY START GOING AND THE AMBULANCES START PASSING ME THINK THREE FDNY AMBULANCES AND METRO CARE AMBULANCE
AND THEN THE REST OF THEM WERE COP CARS FIRE TRUCKS AND GUESS BATTALION CHIEF FIRE DIVISION
SUBURBAN
PASSED ME
SO GET TO HOUSTON SECOND AVENUE NOW TURNS INTO CHRISTIE STREET AND JUMP BACK ONTO CURB AND AT THAT POINT ALL OF THE SECOND WAVE OF EMERGENCY VEHICLES LEFT ME AND IM FLYING DOWN THE STREET AND JUMP OFF CURB AGAIN LANDING NEXT TO MINIVAN WHICH
JUST MISSED OR IT MISSED ME AND AS IM COMING DOWN THE STREET IM NOT SURE IF ITS EAST BROADWAY THAT CROSSES CHRISTIE STREET BUT THIRD WAVE OF EMERGENCY VEHICLES COME DOWN AND COULD HEAR THEM AT LEAST THREE OR FOUR BLOCKS BEHIND ME THEY START PASSING ME AND START RUSHING WITH THEM AND THEY GAVE ME THIRD ADRENALINE RUSH
IM RUSHING WITH THEM AND WE ALL GET TO CANAL STREET WHERE EVERYBODY CAME TO STOP BECAUSE IM

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NOT SURE IF ITS LADDER OR ENGINE WAS COMING OFF
THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE IT PROBABLY WASNT LADDER BUT THERE WAS ANOTHER LADDER TRUCK COMING OFF THE MANHATTAN
BRIDGE AND EVERYBODY STOPPED TO LET THEM GO AND THEN WAVED ON THE OTHER EMERGENCY VEHICLES WHO WERE BEHIND ME TO GO AHEAD OF ME AND THEY ALL FLEW DOWN CANAL
STREET FOR BLOCK AND HUNG RIGHT ON
WHAT STREET IT WAS BUT KNOW THAT
BEHIND THEM AS RIDE BEHIND THEM NOW WERE IN CHINATOWN AS RIDE BEHIND THEM GUESS THEY WERE LIKE SPECIAL FORCES FROM THE COURTS OR THE FBI
BUILDING IN THAT AREA FEDERAL COPS OR WHATEVER
JUMPED IN FRONT OF ME AND YELLED AT HIM EMS EMS AND HE JUMPED OUT OF MY WAY AND KEPT RIDING
AT THIS POINT NOW IM PASSING BEHIND THE COURTS GOT BEHIND THE COURTS AND GO UNDERNEATH
LIKE THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE OVERHEADS AND PULL UP ON THINK ITS READE STREET RIGHT NEXT TO CITY HALL AND THEN SEE BOTH THE TOWERS SMOKING LIKE CHIMNEYS
MEAN IT WAS LIKE THE WORST SIGHT IN THE WORLD AS PULLED UP ONTO THINK IT WAS IM NOT SURE WHAT STREET BUT IT WASNT READE STREET IM NOT SURE WHAT STREET BUT IT WAS RIGHT NEXT TO CITY HALL SAW ONE PERSON FALL OUT THE BUILDING AS KEEP RIDING LOOK
DONT KNOW WHEN WENT

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OVER TO MY LEFT AND THERES JUST CROWD OF PEOPLE STARING LIKE THEY COULDNT BELIEVE IT AND IM STARING AT THEM AND THEYRE STARING AT THE TOWERS SEE DETECTIVES AND FBI AGENTS RUNNING AROUND THE STREET LIKE THEY DIDNT KNOW WHAT TO DO WHAT WAS GOING ON
SO HAD MY ID OUT PRIOR TO THAT BECAUSE
WAS TRYING TO FLAG DOWN VEHICLE AS WAS RACING DOWN
SECOND AVE TO STOP MEAN KNEW THEY WASNT GOING
TO STOP BUT IF THEY DID GOOD WOULD HAVE JUMPED IN WITH THEM BUT NOBODY STOPPED SO HAD MY ID OUT
PRIOR TO THAT AND WAS FLASHING ALL THE DETECTIVES AND FBI AGENTS AND THEYRE JUST WAVING ME THROUGH
GET TO BROADWAY BROADWAY AND THINK ITS VESEY AND SLAM ON MY BRAKES BECAUSE LADY CUTS IN
FRONT OF ME NOW AT THAT POINT JUST STARTED LIKE LIGHTLY RIDING TO LOOK FOR LIEUTENANT AN EMS
LIEUTENANT AND RAN INTO AN EMS LIEUTENANT GOT TO DEY AND BROADWAY SO IDENTIFIED
ABOUT ONCE
MYSELF AS AN EMS OFF DUTY AND SHE WAS LIKE GOOD WERE SETTING
UP TRIAGE THEY SET UP TRIAGE BETWEEN DEY AND THE NEXT STREET NORTH OF DEY SOUTH OF DEY SORRY SO SHE
STARTS SETTING UP TRIAGE AND TOLD HER WAS GOING TO BE BACK WAS GOING TO LOCK MY BIKE UP LOCKED MY BIKE UP ON DEY BETWEEN BROADWAY AND FULTON AND GO

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BACK AND STARTED TRIAGING PATIENTS HAD NO TRIAGE TAGS IN MY HAND SO THEY HAD ALREADY HAD THE TRIAGE TAGS ARRIVING SO STARTED ASKING QUESTIONS YOU KNOW
HAD NO ACRS NEITHER SO STARTED ASKING THEM QUESTIONS ABOUT THEIR HISTORY IF THEY HAD ASTHMA
HISTORY OR WHATEVER
THEN RAN INTO ANOTHER EMS GUY WHO HAD
BIKE WAS SIDETRACKED BY HIM HE ASKED ME WHERE DID LOCK MY BIKE UP AND TOLD HIM OVER HERE TOOK
OVER TO WHERE MY BIKE WAS ME AND HIM CHAINED OUR BIKES UP TOGETHER WE WENT BACK OVER THERE AND WE
STARTED TRIAGING MORE PATIENTS RAN INTO ONE PATIENT WHO SAID SHE WAS HAVING AN ASTHMA ATTACK NOW AT THAT
POINT HAD WENT OVER TO METRO CARE BUS TO ASK IF THEY HAD ANY ALBUTEROL THEY DIDNT HAVE ANY FOR
WHATEVER REASON SO THEN WENT
MY LIEUTENANT WENT THE LIEUTENANT
REMEMBERED WHERE RAN INTO
THINK SHE WAS FROM BATTALION
TO FULTON AND CHURCH STREET WHERE THERE WAS ANOTHER TRIAGE CENTER SET RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE TOWERS IN
FRONT OF THE MILLENIUM HOTEL ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE TOWERS
AT THAT POINT RUN DOWN FULTON STREET AND PA COP PORT AUTHORITY COP STOPS ME AND FLASH MY ID
SORRY
RAN OVER
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CHARLES
AND HES GIVING ME FLACK ABOUT YOU KNOW YOURE NOT GOING DOWN HERE IM LIKE LISTEN IVE GOT AN ASTHMA
PATIENT OVER THERE ON BROADWAY HES LIKE NO YOU AINT GOING DOWN THERE SHES NOT GETTING ALBUTEROL
TODAY WAS LIKE ALL RIGHT YOU KNOW RUDY CHARLES RUDY CHARLES IS PORT AUTHORITY COP MY FATHER HE
GOES NO NOT TODAY SO CAN SEE HE WAS JUST BEING DIFFICULT
SO RAN BACK OVER TO BROADWAY AND RAN INTO
FIREFIGHTER NAMED FIREFIGHTER ANDERSON IF IM NOT MISTAKEN HES AN IC FOR THE FIRE CADETS THE FIRE
CADET PROGRAM USED TO KNEW HIM HE GAVE ME
BE FIRE CADET THATS HOW TURNOUT COAT TO WEAR BECAUSE
NEEDED TO BE IDENTIFIED AS CITY WORKER SO HE GAVE
ME THE TURNOUT COAT AND
WAS STANDING ON DEY AND BROADWAY RAN BACK OVER TO
FULTON AND CHURCH AND THE PA COP WAS STILL STANDING
RAN BACK OVER TO AND HE
THERE AND HE RUNS OVER TO ME AND TELL
STAY THE FUCK OVER THERE AND HES LIKE ALL RIGHT THE FBI IS GOING TO STOP ME SO AS IM WALKING BY HIM THE FBI COPS LOOKED THE FBI AGENTS SORRY THEYRE LOOKING AT ME AND THEYRE LIKE YOU KNOW THEY JUST LOOKED AT ME AND JUST LET ME GO THROUGH
SO GET OVER TO THE LIEUTENANT HE WAS
HIM YOU KNOW
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CHARLES
TALKING TO CHIEF AND CAPTAIN DIDNT GET THEIR NAMES THE CHIEF HAD AN EAGLE ON HIS COLLAR SO THIS WAS DEPUTY SO NOW ASKED THE LIEUTENANT WAS THERE ANY ALBUTEROL SHE SAYS GO CHECK THE AMBULANCE OVER THERE DIDNT GET THE AMBULANCE UNIT OR THE BUS NUMBER THERE WERE TWO EMTS WORKING ON SEVERE BURN PATIENT IT LOOKED LIKE 30 PERCENT OF HIS BODY WAS BURNED AND THEY WERE WORKING ON HIM JUMPED ON THE BUS AND ASKED FOR ALBUTEROL AND THE GUY TURNED AROUND AND HE GAVE ME ALBUTEROL AND NEBULIZER
SO TAKE THE ALBUTEROL AND THE NEBULIZER AND RUN BACK OVER TO DEY AND BROADWAY WHERE THE OTHER
TRIAGE CENTER WAS GET OVER THERE METRO CARE FOUND
THEIR ALBUTEROL OKAY SO AFTER ALL THAT RUNNING
AROUND HATZOLAH COMES THEYRE COMING IN AND NOW THEY HAVE NINE EMTS AND THINK TWO PARAMEDICS HAD TOLD
THEM WE NEED AT LEAST THREE OF YOUR GUYS OVER AT CHURCH AND FULTON BECAUSE THERES ONLY TWO EMTS THERE THE
THE LIEUTENANT AND THE CHIEF AND HES LIKE NO WERE GOING TO KEEP THEM HERE BECAUSE EVERYBODY IS
COMING HERE WAS LIKE GUY THERES MORE PEOPLE COMING OUT OF THAT BUILDING GOING TO THAT TRIAGE CENTER THAN THOSE TWO EMTS CAN HANDLE THREE SORRY IT
WAS THREE EMTS THERE HES LIKE NO WAS LIKE
CAPTAIN
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CHARLES
LISTEN RIGHT NOW NEED YOUR HELP DONT NEED YOU TO GIVE ME YOUR WHATS THAT CALLED
SARCASM
NO SUPERIOR COMPLEX AND HE WAS LIKE ALL
RIGHT ALL RIGHT SO THEN SAID ILL BE RIGHT BACK AND THEN RAN BACK OVER TO THE LIEUTENANT ON FULTON
AND DEY MEAN FULTON AND CHURCH AND GET OVER
THERE AND IM LIKE LIEUTENANT WE GOT TRIAGE CENTER THAT HAS TOO MANY CHIEFS AND NO INDIANS WE NEED SOMEBODY WITH STATUS TO GO OVER THERE AND LET THEM KNOW WHATS GOING ON SO SHES LIKE OKAY AND SHE SENDS AN EMT OVER THERE THINK HE WAS MEDIC IM NOT EVEN SURE BUT THIS GUY REMEMBER WHITE GUY ABOUT MY HEIGHT 51O 511 HE HAD SHADES ON AT THE TIME
SPIKY HAIR THINK HES FROM BATTALION TOO HE WALKED OVER TO DEY AND CHURCH HE STARTED TO CUT UP
DEY TO GO TO CHURCH WHICH IS RIGHT NEXT TO THE CENTURY 21 STORE
SO NOW GUESS SAW HIM CUTTING UP THERE SO NOW MADE THE DECISION THAT WAS GOING TO GO INTO
THE BUILDINGS AND START HELPING EVERYBODY ELSE OUT BECAUSE SAW THE FIREFIGHTERS STANDING OVER THERE
CARRYING PEOPLE OUT AND THERE WERE LOT OF EMTS OVER THERE WHO WERENT FDNY THEY WERE LIKE GUESS FROM
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CHARLES
BRONX MEAN LIKE BROOKLYN AND QUEENS SO THEY WERE THERE AND THEY HAD LIKE EMT ON THE TAPE ON THEIR SHIRT AND THEY WERE LIKE HELPING PEOPLE OUT STARTED TO HEAD TOWARDS THE BUILDING AND THESE TWO EMT FEMALES THEY HAD THIS HEAVYSET LADY THEY WERE WALKING HER
OVER TO THE TRIAGE CENTER SO SHE GETS OVER TO THE
CENTER AND SHE SEES ME AND LIEUTENANT AND DECIDES THAT SHE WANTS TO PASS OUT SO ALL RIGHT SHE PASSES OUT ON THE GROUND SO STARTED TO WALK PAST
HER BECAUSE IM LIKE WELL THEY GOT HER THEN SAW THAT THE LIEUTENANT AND THE TWO EMS FEMALES WERE HAVING
PROBLEM LIFTING HER UP SO TOLD THE TWO EMS LADIES TO MOVE AND ME AND THE LIEUTENANT PICKED HER UP GRABBED HER AND THE LIEUTENANT PICKED HER UP BY THE LEGS AND WE START WALKING OVER SLOWLY TO THE CURB AND THEN HEARD AN EXPLOSION FROM UP FROM UP ABOVE AND FROZE AND WAS LIKE OH SHIT IM DEAD BECAUSE
THOUGHT DEBRIS WAS GOING TO HIT ME IN THE HEAD AND THAT WAS IT
THEN EVERYBODY STOPS AND LOOKS AT THE BUILDING AND THEN THEY TAKE OFF THE LIEUTENANT
DROPPED HER LEGS AND RAN THE TRIAGE CENTER EVERYBODY WHO WAS SITTING THERE HURT AND OH YOU KNOW HELP ME
THEY GOT UP AND EVERYBODY TOGETHER GOT UP AND RAN
TRIAGE
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LOOKED AT THEM LIKE WHY ARE THEY RUNNING LOOK OVER MY SHOULDER AND SAYS OH SHIT AND THEN TURNED
AROUND AND LOOKED UP AND THATS WHEN SAW THE TOWER COMING DOWN SAW THE IT LOOKED LIKE THE TOP MAYBE 70 60 FLOORS COMING OFF THE BUILDING AND HAD STOOD THERE THINKING MAYBE THE TOWERS WERE NOT GOING TO HIT ME THEN LOOKED CLOSER AND TWO PIECES OF DEBRIS FLY OVER MY HEAD ABOUT 40 50 STORIES UP FLYING OVER MY HEAD AND WAS LIKE SHIT IM OUT OF HERE
GRABBED THE LADY AND TUGGED ON HER TWICE AND SHE WOULDNT GET UP AT THAT POINT SHE GOT UP ON ONE KNEE ACTUALLY AND THEN SHE WOULDNT GET UP THEN
LET HER GO AND STARTED TO RUN AND IM HAULING ASS DOWN FULTON UP FULTON ACTUALLY RUNNING EAST
ACTUALLY AS IM RUNNING EAST STOPPED AND TOLD MYSELF WHAT ARE YOU DOING JASON CHARLES GO BACK FOR HER SO TURNED AROUND AND WENT BACK TO THE LADY
GET BACK DOWN TO MEAN IT WAS ONLY LIKE TEN
STEPS SO TOOK ANOTHER TEN STEPS BACK AND GET BACK DOWN THERE AND SHES GONE AND IM LIKE ALL RIGHT
SO NOW LOOK OVER TO MY LEFT REAL QUICK AND SEE TWO FIREFIGHTERS RUNNING AT ME WITH THIS
HORRIFIED LOOK ON THEIR FACE ONE FIREFIGHTER WAS TRYING TO DROP HIS SCOTT PACK AND IT GOT CAUGHT THE
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BUCKLE THAT GOES AROUND THE SCOTT PACK AROUND THE WAIST
GOT CAUGHT SO HE WAS TRYING TO HE WAS UNBUCKLING THAT WHILE HE WAS RUNNING THE OTHER GUY HE DROPPED
IT OFF HIS SHOULDERS BUT IT LOOKED LIKE IT GOT CAUGHT ONTO HIS ARMS AND THEN THE DUST HIT THEM AND THEN THE
METAL CRASHED ON THEM AND TURNED AROUND AND
STARTED RUNNING SAW PEOPLE AS IM TURNING AROUND RUNNING PICKED UP PEOPLE WHO WERE COMING OUT THIS CORRIDOR RIGHT IN FRONT OF MILLENIUM HOTEL THAT LEADS YOU INTO LIKE THE MALL PLAZA ON LIBERTY SAW PEOPLE RUNNING OUT OF THERE LIKE RUNNING AGAINST THE WALL AGAINST BUILDING RUNNING NORTH YES RUNNING
NORTH
SO THEY WERE ALL THEYRE RUNNING NORTH AND IM RUNNING AND IN MY HEAD IM LIKE LETS JUMP IN THAT
BUS OVER THERE SAID NAH JUST RUN THEN IM STARTING TO RUN AND SEE FIREFIGHTERS YOU KNOW
MEAN LIKE WHEN EVERYBODY STARTED RUNNING IM SEEING
TWO FIREFIGHTERS DROP THEIR SCOTT PACKS FBI AGENTS TOOK OFF EMTS TOOK OFF AND THAT TOLD ME THIS IS
REAL SITUATION THIS WASNT NOTHING TO TAKE LIGHTLY
SO THATS WHEN HAD RAN AND LEFT THE LADY CAME BACK FOR HER
NOW AS SEE THE TWO FIREFIGHTERS
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CHARLES
INAUDIBLE MADE THE DECISION NOT TO JUMP IN THE BACK OF THE AMBULANCE THAT WAS PARKED RIGHT ON THE
CORNER OF FULTON AND CHURCH START RUNNING UP THE BLOCK AS START RUNNING UP FULTON SEE THIS LADY WHO LEFT BEHIND HAULING ASS UP FULTON AND HER DRESS IS LIKE FLAPPING IN THE WIND AND IM LIKE LOOK AT HER GO YOU KNOW AND IM JUST RUNNING AND SHE HAD NICE LEAD ON ME SO SHE WAS LIKE HALF BLOCK UP ALREADY BUT MADE SURE FOUND HER FIRST BEFORE LEFT
SO STARTED RUNNING AND NOW IM PANICKING
IM LIKE OH MAN IM DEAD IM DEAD AND THERES ALL THESE PEOPLE IN FRONT OF ME AND THEYRE RUNNING SLOW AND IM LIKE OH JESUS CHRIST AND
AND STARTED WALKING REAL FAST BEHIND THEM BECAUSE WASNT GOING TO PUSH ANYBODY OUT OF THE WAY SO THERE WAS AN OPENING AND TOOK THE OPENING AND STARTED HAULING ASS BUT THIS OLDER BLACK GUY FALLS IN FRONT OF ME AND JUMP OVER HIM AND STOPPED AND TURNED AROUND AND TWO PEOPLE SCOOPED HIM UP AND KEPT RUNNING IT WAS LIKE FOOTBALL SCENE LIKE THEY SCOOPED UP FOOTBALL AND KEPT RUNNING WITH HIM AND THEYRE RUNNING AND THEN NOW IM RUNNING ALMOST STARTED CRYING AT ONE
POINT IM LIKE OH MAN IM DEAD IM DEAD AND STOPPED RUNNING AND SAID SCREW IT IM GOING TO DIE
STOPPED RUNNING
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CHARLES
RIGHT HERE LET ME TAKE IT AS IT IS THEN SOMETHING SAID STUPID RUN YOU KNOW RUN AND DIE RUNNING SO
STARTED
RUNNING AGAIN
AT ONE POINT AT SOME POINT IM NOT SURE
BUT THE BUILDING THAT HORRIBLE TWISTING METAL SOUND OF FREIGHT TRAIN OR WHATEVER ITS THE WORST SOUND IN THE WORLD STOPPED BUT THEN IT STARTED AGAIN THEN STARTED HAULING ASS AGAIN AND AT ONE POINT STOPPED LIKE MAYBE 20 FEET BEFORE GOT TO BROADWAY STILL ON FULTON FLYING UP TO BROADWAY AND LET EVERYBODY RUN PAST ME SAID EVERYBODY GO GO GO NOW RAN THE REST THE WAY DOWN TO BROADWAY AND THEN LOOKED TO MY RIGHT DOWN TOWARDS DEY AND SEE AT LEAST
40 50 STORY BALL OF DUST RUSHING AT US IM LIKE
HOLY SHIT IM LIKE ALL RIGHT RUN AND KEPT RUNNING AND RAN TOWARDS VESEY AND THEN VESEY THE DUST CAME
AROUND THERE BUT FOR SOME REASON THE DUST DIDNT COME UP FULTON YET NOT AS FAST AND HARD AND AS DARK AS IT
DID AT VESEY AND DEY
SO NOW HAD THAT TRAPPED FEELING AND
THOUGHT WAS REALLY SCREWED BECAUSE KNEW BEHIND THAT
WAS NOTHING BUT DEATH IF YOU SUCKED ON THE DUST THAT
WAS PRETTY MUCH IT SO YELLED EVERYBODY OVER HERE AND POINTED TO STORE THE STORES NAME IT WAS
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CHARLES
DELICATESSEN ACTUALLY ITS CALLED AU PAIN OR AU BON PAIN
AU BON PAIN
YES THANK YOU THAT FAMOUS DELICATESSEN RAN OVER THERE AND LIKE THREE OTHER PEOPLE FOLLOWED
ME UNE GUY REMEMBER STOPPING LIKE HE WAS STILL ON FULTON RUNNING UP FULTON HE HAD STOPPED DEAD IN HIS TRACKS AND COVERED HIS FACE THAT WAS ACTUALLY BEFORE THE DUST STARTED RUSHING AT US BUT THOUGHT ID ADD THAT IN THERE WAS GUY HE JUST STOPPED DEAD IN HIS TRACKS HE DIDNT WANT TO RUN ANYMORE AND REMEMBER REACHING FOR HIM AND THEN THE DUST CAUGHT HIM AND
KEPT RUNNING BUT THE DUST COMING UP FULTON WAS LITTLE LIGHTER AND DONT KNOW WHY IT WAS LIGHT THERE BUT IT WAS DARK AS HELL COMING DOWN DEY AND VE
SO ANYWAY WE RUN UP TO THE STORE AND
GRABBED THE DOOR AND IM OPEN THE FUCKING DOOR BECAUSE IT WAS LOCKED AND HAD THIS LOOK ON MY FACE
LIKE HURRY UP LIKE WAS ABOUT TO CRY AGAIN AND THE MANAGER OF THE STORE SCRAMBLED THROUGH HIS KEYS AND HE
RAN OVER TO THE DOOR AND HE UNLOCKED IT BY THE TIME HE GOT TO THE DOOR THE DUST CAUGHT US HELD ONTO
THE DOOR AND THEN FELT THE DOOR OPEN AND OPENED IT
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CHARLES
UP AND SHOVED THE TWO PEOPLE IN AND THEN CLOSED THE DOOR RIGHT BEHIND ME GET INSIDE THE STORE AND
START CURSING AND ALMOST STARTED TO PICK CHAIR UP AND THROW IT IF YOU KNOW WHAT IM SAYING THROUGH THE
WINDOW BUT THAT WOULDNT HAVE MADE NO SENSE BECAUSE WHEN LOOKED BEHIND THE WINDOW IT WAS COMPLETELY
BLACK
LIKE
MEAN IT WAS LIKE LOOKING INTO HELL
AS IM LOOKING SEE ONE PERSON IT LOOKED
WHITE GUY WITH GLASSES WALKING UP AGAINST THE OF THE WINDOW IM LIKE HOLY SHIT SO RUN
GLASS
BACK OUTSIDE AND THE DOOR WAS LOCKED AGAIN
TURNED AROUND TO THE MANAGER OPEN THE FUCKING DOOR AND HES LIKE OH IM SORRY SAID LEAVE THIS SHIT OPEN AND HE SAID ALL RIGHT HE OPENS THE DOOR AND OPENED THE
DOOR AND YELL OUTSIDE YELL OUTSIDE AND IT SOUNDED LIKE WAS YELLING IN AN EMPTY ROOM LIKE THE ACOUSTICS
IF ANYBODY EVER HEARD THE ACOUSTICS IN AN EMPTY ROOM IT WAS LIKE THAT AND IT WAS SCARY WAS LIKE
HOLY SHIT THEN CLOSED THE DOOR AND NOT EVEN FIVE SECONDS LATER THREE PEOPLE CAME IT LOOKED LIKE FLIES TO THE DOOR TU TU TU TU LIKE THEY ALL BUMPED INTO
IT OPENED THE DOOR RUSHED THEM IN AND THEY CAME IN AND THEY COULDNT SEE AND ASKED THE GUY FOR WATER SAID WASH THEIR FACES DOWN AND HE WAS LIKE
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CHARLES
ALL RIGHT AND THE MANAGER AND FEW OTHER PEOPLE STARTED WASHING THEIR FACES DOWN
THEN MORE PEOPLE STARTED COMING TO THE DOOR AND THEY STARTED LETTING THEM IN AND THEY STARTED
WASHING THEIR FACES OFF WASHED ONE GUYS FACE OFF THEN TOLD THE LADY HERE TAKE OVER BECAUSE SAW
THE STORE NOW LEADS TO THE BACK THERES BACK EXIT THAT LEADS INTO THE BUILDING THINK THE BUILDING WE WERE IN WAS 222 BROADWAY OR 225 IM NOT SURE WHICH ONE IT WAS 222 BROADWAY SO GO TO THE BACK AND THERES LIKE 60 PEOPLE IN THE LOBBY OF THIS BUILDING AND IM LIKE JESUS CHRIST
AND HAD NO TECH BAG THE ONLY THING
ALBUTEROL AND NEBULIZER AND UNLESS
BLOW INTO THE NEBULIZER YOU KNOW THAT WAS THE EXTENT OF MY MEDICAL CARE
PEOPLE
SO AT ONE POINT THE CROWDS ATTENTION AND GIVES ME THE BULLHORN AND
THAT WASNT FIREFIGHTER
WAS GOING TO
STARTED TRIED TO GET GUY GAVE ME BULLHORN HE START ANNOUNCING WHO WAS
BECAUSE HAD ON
FIREFIGHTERS JACKET WASNT FIREFIGHTER WAS AN EMT AND THAT MY NAME WAS JASON CHARLES THEYRE LIKE
OKAY AND THEY STARTED LISTENING SOMEBODY HAD ASKED ME WHAT HAPPENED AND THEN TWO OTHER PEOPLE WERE LIKE
WAS BY MYSELF HAD ON ME WAS
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YEAH WHAT HAPPENED WHAT HAPPENED WAS LIKE JESUS CHRIST THEY DONT EVEN KNOW WAS LIKE ALL RIGHT
WAS LIKE LADIES AND GENTLEMEN TOWER JUST COLLAPSED THE ENTIRE BUILDING CAME DOWN AND THEYRE LIKE OH MY GOD PEOPLE STARTED CRYING AND STUFF LIKE THAT BUT GAVE IT TO THAT ENTIRE CROWD THEY HELD IT TOGETHER
WASNT LIKE THEY PANICKED LIKE IN ONE OF THOSE MOVIES AND FLIPPED OUT THEY HELD IT TOGETHER SO IM LIKE OKAY
SO THEN MY NEXT QUESTION WAS NO SOMEONE HAD ASKED ME CAN WE GO OUTSIDE WAS LIKE AND THEN KNOW THIS IS LIKE REALLY UNPROFESSIONAL BUT THEN AT
THAT POINT WAS JUST REALLY AGGRAVATED WAS LIKE YOU KNOW WHAT IF YOU WANT TO FUCKING GO OUTSIDE YOU KNOW WHAT IM SAYING AND SUCK ON THAT FUCKING DUST BE MY GUEST BUT SUGGEST THAT YOU ALL STAY IN HERE WAIT UNTIL IT CLEARS OUT IN ANOTHER 15 20 MINUTES AND WE CAN ALL GO EAST TOWARDS THE RIVER AND GET OUT OF HERE THEY WERE LIKE ALL RIGHT ALL RIGHT SO THEY STARTED CALMING DOWN AND WAS LIKE LADIES AND GENTLEMEN DOES ANYBODY HAVE ASTHMA LIKE 30 PEOPLE RAISED THEIR
HANDS WAS LIKE OH JESUS CHRIST SO STARTED SEPARATING THE ASTHMA PATIENTS FROM EVERYBODY ELSE AND
PUT THE ASTHMA PATIENTS BACK IN THE DELICATESSEN SO
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COULD KEEP MY EYE ON THEM HAD ANYBODY BROKE OUT IN SEVERE ASTHMA ATTACK
AT ONE POINT MEDIC CAME RUNNING IN THROUGH ONE OF THE DOORS COVERED IN DUST COUGHING AND WAS
LIKE AND THERE WAS GUY STANDING BEHIND ME AND WAS LIKE YO BIG MAN TAKE HIM INSIDE THE DELICATESSEN
AND WATCH HIM HE WAS LIKE ALL RIGHT SO HE WALKED HIM INSIDE NOW IM STILL TAKING IN ASTHMA PATIENTS
MEAN IT WAS LIKE AT LEAST 30 NOW IT LOOKED LIKE 40
BECAUSE PEOPLE JUST STARTED POPPING UP SO THEN THEY STARTED THEY WENT IN THE DELICATESSEN
THEN SOMEBODY BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION CHICK WHO HAD LACERATION ON HER HEAD WOMAN SORRY HAD
LACERATION ON HER HEAD APPROXIMATELY 20 YEAR OLD AFRICAN AMERICAN FEMALE AND THE LAC WAS PROBABLY MAYBE HALF AN INCH WIDE IT LOOKED PRETTY DEEP SHE MIGHT
HAVE NEEDED STITCHES FOR IT THERE WAS GUY WHO WAS
APPLYING LIKE LET
BLEEDING
BLEEDING TOLD HIM
LOOK FOR
PRESSURE TO HER HEAD WITH CLOTH AND WAS ME SEE IT AND HE WAS LIKE YEAH SHES
PRETTY BADLY WHEN HE LIFTED IT UP IT WASNT TOO BAD SO SHE WAS PRETTY MUCH OKAY SO
WAIT HERE IM GOING TO GO BACK OUTSIDE AND TECH BAG OR SOMETHING COULD USE
SO WENT BACK OUTSIDE AT THE TIME HAD
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CHARLES
THE BANDANA AROUND MY HEAD TOOK IT FROM AROUND MY HEAD AND PUT IT AROUND MY MOUTH SO NOW IM WALKING
OUTSIDE AND IM ASKING PEOPLE ARE THEY OKAY BECAUSE NOW AT THIS POINT PEOPLE ARE JUST DAZED IT WAS LIKE ONE
OF THOSE NUCLEAR WAR MOVIES WHERE PEOPLE ARE JUST IN DAZE SO WALKED INTO FEW PEOPLE AND IM ASKING
THEM ARE THEY OKAY ARE THEY OKAY ONE HEAVYSET GENTLEMAN HAD TO ASK HIM ARE YOU OKAY SIR ARE YOU OKAY HES LIKE YEAH YEAH IM ALL RIGHT
SAID LISTEN SIR EITHER WALK EAST TO THE RIVER OR WALK INTO THAT DELICATESSEN OVER THERE HE SAID ALL RIGHT
AT ONE POINT CAME UP TO BUNCH OF OFFICERS WHO WERE SITTING ON THE CEMETERY THATS RIGHT THERE THEY WERE ALL SITTING ON THE WALL LIKE THEY COULDNT BELIEVE WHAT WAS GOING ON HAD ASKED IF ANYBODY WAS HURT NO HAD SAID WHOS HURT OVER HERE WHOS BLEEDING BECAUSE SAW BLOOD ON THE FLOOR THERE WAS AN OFFICER WHO HAD LITTLE MINOR LACERATIONS ON HIS
HAND WAS LIKE LISTEN GUYS YOU GUYS GOT TO GET OUT OF HERE BECAUSE TOWER IS GOING TO FALL BECAUSE
FOR SOME REASON HAD JUST KNOWN THAT THE TOWER WAS GOING TO COME DOWN AT THAT POINT BECAUSE WHEN TOWER CAME DOWN THE GROUND WAS ACTUALLY SHAKING
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CHARLES
SO THEN STARTED WALKING GOT BACK OVER TO CHURCH AND FULTON AND LOOKED TO MY LEFT AND
COULD SEE IT BUT BARELY BIG PIECE OF METAL STICKING INTO THE GROUND IT REMINDED ME OF FOR SOME REASON
PLANET OF THE APES THE NEW ONE SO LOOKED AT IT AND WAS LIKE JESUS CHRIST AND SAW FIRE MARSHAL AND
LIKE TWO DETECTIVES WALK OUT OF THE DUST OVER THERE
AND THEY CAME OVER YOU KNOW THEY CAME WALKING OUT BEFORE THAT BEFORE SAW THEM WALK OUT FOUND BATTALION CHIEFS HELMET AND LOOKED AT IT AND PICKED IT UP AND REMEMBER SEEING BATTALION CHIEF HE HAULED ASS UP THE BLOCK SO HE WAS OKAY REMEMBER
HIM RUN ON FULTON BEFORE THE TOWERS CAME DOWN MEAN THIS GUY WAS AN OLDER GUY AND NEVER SEEN AN
OLD MAN MOVE SO QUICK SO HE WAS ALL RIGHT SO TOOK HIS HELMET AND LOOKED AT IT AND WAS LIKE AND
LOOKED AT THE TOWERS AND THERE WAS DEBRIS STILL COMING
OFF THE BUILDING
MIND YOU BEFORE THAT WHICH FOUND LITTLE
WEIRD BEFORE THE TOWERS FELL THERE WERE LOT OF
PEOPLE FALLING OUT OF THE BUILDING LIKE YOU KNOW DONT KNOW LIKE THEY WERE JUST THROWING THEMSELVES
OUT LIKE THEY WERE JUST LINED UP AND GOING LIKE PARATROOPERS AND AT ONE POINT RIGHT BEFORE THE TOWERS
SEEING
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CHARLES
CAME DOWN THAT STOPPED IT WAS LIKE THE PEOPLE THAT
WERE COMING OUT JUST STOPPED COMING OUT THE WINDOW FOR WHATEVER REASON FOUND THAT LITTLE WEIRD
AS WAS WALKING OVER TO TOWER WITH THE HELMET IN MY HAND HAD PUT IT ON MY HEAD IM LIKE
YOU KNOW WELL HES OKAY IM GOING TO PUT THIS ON
AND PROTECT MYSELF FROM ANYTHING FALLING OFF THE BUILDING BECAUSE HAD NOTHING THEN TOOK IT OFF
AGAIN AND IM LIKE AH IM NOT GOING TO PUT THIS BACK ON MY HEAD ITS NOT EVEN MINE SO IM LIKE AND THE FIRE MARSHAL WHAT IS THAT WHAT IS THAT IN YOUR
HAND WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THAT IM LIKE OKAY IM LIKE ITS BATTALION CHIEFS HELMET HES OKAY HES LIKE GIVE ME THE HELMET ALL RIGHT HERE IM SORRY MAN SO TOOK IT OFF BECAUSE THINK HE HAD SAW ME BECAUSE WHEN TOOK IT OFF AND LOOKED BEHIND ME HE WAS ALREADY COMING UP BUT HE HADNT SAID
ANYTHING SO GUESS HE PUT KNOW WHAT MEAN ME WITH
DOESNT QUITE LOOK TOO WELL LIKE LISTEN IM EMS HES
TWO AND TWO TOGETHER YOU BATTALION CHIEFS HELMET
SO HES LIKE OH AND IM LIKE ALL RIGHT
THEN DETECTIVE CAME UP AND SAID WERE PULLING BACK TO CHAMBERS IM LIKE WORD HES SAID YEAH BECAUSE TOWER IS GOING TO COME DOWN HE SAID
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CHARLES
THE SAME THING WAS LIKE ALL RIGHT AT THAT POINT LOOKED UP AT TOWER AND COULD SEE THAT SHE WAS LEANING SLIGHTLY BUT NOT MUCH AND AS LOOKED OVER
TO LOOKED AT THE TOWER LOOKED AT EVERYBODY ELSE AND EVERYBODY ELSE IS HAULING EVERYBODY IS WALKING
SOUTH TOWARDS CHAMBERS SO THE OFFICER OFFERS ME SOME WATER TAKE IT IM STARTING TO DRINK
IT AS IM WALKING AND IM WALKING BECAUSE HE SAID WE GOT TO PULL BACK IM LIKE WAIT SECOND STILL GOT THOSE PATIENTS IN THE BUILDING
SO HE STARTED THEY WALKED AND RAN UP TO AN ESU TRUCK SOME ESU GUYS WERE PUTTING ON SCOTT
PACKS AND WAS LIKE YO YOU GUYS GOT AN EXTRA SCOTT PACK SO CAN GO IN THE BUILDING AND HELP YOU GUYS
OUT THEY WERE LIKE AND THEY STARTED LOOKING FOR SCOTT PACKS AND THEY WERE LIKE YO WERE OUT OF SCOTT
PACKS SO GO INAUDIBLE HE WAS LIKE YEAH SAID
YOU GUYS GOING IN THE BUILDING RIGHT HE SAID YEAH THE ONLY REASON WHY DIDNT GO IN THE BUILDING BECAUSE
HAD KNEW THAT THE MALL LEVEL WAS COMPLETELY DUST AND FOR ME TO GO IN THERE WITH NOTHING ON WOULD HAVE PRETTY
MUCH BEEN SUICIDE SO SAID ALL RIGHT THEY SAID
UP THE BLOCK TO BROADWAY THERE SHOULD BE ANOTHER ESU
TRUCK OVER THERE
UP WALKING
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CHARLES
SO STARTED BACK OVER THERE AND AS IM STARTING BACK OVER THERE LOOKED DOWN THINK ITS
VESEY RIGHT BETWEEN TOWER AND THE TRADE CENTER AND THERE WERE LIKE AT LEAST FOUR FIREFIGHTERS OVER THERE IT LOOKED LIKE EIGHT ACTUALLY BECAUSE THERE WERE ANOTHER TWO WALKING DOWN THEY WERE LONG BOARDING
GUY WHO MUST HAVE JUMPED OFF THE ESCALATOR THATS LIKE
RIGHT THERE ON VESEY AND THEYRE LONG BOARDING HIM IM LIKE ALL RIGHT
SO WALK OVER TO FIRE TRUCK AND TAKE
SIP OF WATER THAT WAS COMING OUT OF THE FIRE TRUCK AND THERE WAS THIS FEMALE FROM ENGLAND WHO WAS ON THE 90TH FLOOR OF TOWER WHO TOLD ME SHE HAD JUST BARELY MADE IT OUT OF THERE WHEN THE TOWERS CAME DOWN SHE LOST BOTH HER SHOES SO SHE WAS WALKING SO SAID
LISTEN IM WALKING BACK TO THE BUILDING OVER HERE YOU WANT TO COME WITH ME SHES LIKE YEAH IM LIKE ALL RIGHT SO WE STARTED WALKING BACK SHES WALKING BAREFOOT BECAUSE SHE LOST HER SHOES
SO WE GET BACK OVER TO 222 BROADWAY AND WE
GET INSIDE AND IM TELLING EVERYBODY LISTEN
COULDNT FIND ANY EQUIPMENT BUT WERE GOING TO HAVE TO
GET OUT OF HERE BECAUSE TOWER IS GOING TO COME DOWN THIS SERGEANT POLICE OFFICER SERGEANT GOES DONT
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CHARLES
TELL THEM THAT DONT TELL THEM THAT IM LIKE WHAT
HE WAS LIKE WAS LIKE ALL RIGHT WHATEVER FORGET IT THEN IM NOT GOING TO SAY IT AGAIN THEN GO ALL RIGHT LADIES AND GENTLEMEN IF WERE GOING TO DO THIS WERE GOING TO GET OUT HERE AND WERE GOING TO WALK EAST TO THE RIVER AND HAD SAID THAT TWICE AND THEN
MADE THE MISTAKE OF SAYING WEST AGAIN AND WAS LIKE DAMN THEN SAID ALL RIGHT EVERYBODY YOU KNOW WHAT
SCREW IT LETS GET OUT OF HERE AND JUST WALK EAST NOW
AS WERE ALL WALKING TO THE BACK OF THE
BUILDING THROUGH THE FREIGHT NOT THE FREIGHT THE LOADING DOCKS IN THE BACK OF THE BUILDING WE GET TO
THE BACK WE DONT EVEN GET TO THE BACK OF THE BUILDING WE START WALKING BACK THERE AND THEN HEARD
GROUND LEVEL EXPLOSION AND IM LIKE HOLY SHIT AND
THEN YOU HEARD THAT TWISTING METAL WRECKAGE AGAIN THEN SAID SHIT AND EVERYBODY STARTED RUNNING AND
STARTED RUNNING BEHIND THEM AND WE GET TO THE DOOR FOR SOME REASON LIKE STRAIGHT OUT OF MOVIE TWO
PEOPLE RAN THROUGH THE DOOR TOGETHER AND GOT STUCK IN THE DOORWAY AND IM LIKE OH MY GOD THIS IS NOT THE
TIME SO THEY SQUEEZED THROUGH AND THEY GOT THROUGH AND SQUEEZED THROUGH THEM AND RAN AROUND THEM BECAUSE
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CHARLES
JUST WANTED TO SEE WHICH WAY THE TOWERS WERE FALLING
SO GET TO THE LOADING DOCK AND RUN
OUTSIDE AND THERES PEOPLE RUNNING OUT THE LOADING DOCK EAST TO THE RIVER LIKE LITTLE RATS OUT OF CAGE LIKE CHU CHU CHU THEN GET TO THE LOADING DOCK OUTSIDE
AND SEE THIS 50 60 STORY DUST ROLLING DOWN THE BLOCK AGAIN IM LIKE HOLY SHIT AND SORT OF MOVED TOO
QUICK AND FELL DOWN AND AS FALL DOWN LOOK AT POLICE SERGEANT OR CAPTAIN SORRY HE GOT COVERED IN THE DUST BECAUSE HE DIDNT MAKE IT TO THE DOORWAY IN TIME
FELL DOWN AND WHEN FELL DOWN THE DUST WENT OVER MY HEAD AND SAID SHIT AND JUMPED UP
GAPSING FOR AIR AT THAT POINT EVERYBODY IS SCREAMING GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE AND THEYRE LIKE CLOSE THE
GATE CLOSE THE GATE AND THE GATE WAS MOVING LIKE
SNAIL IT WAS CLOSING SO SLOW SO EIGHT OF US JUMPED ON THE GATE AND STARTED USING OUR WEIGHT TO PULL IT
DOWN AND IT WOULDNT BUDGE REMEMBER LOOKING OVER TO MY RIGHT AND SEEING ANOTHER EMT NAOMI IS HER LAST NAME SHE USED TO BE OUT OF BATTALION 16 BUT SAW HER SHE WAS HELPING US PULL THE GATE DOWN AT ONE POINT SOMEONE YELLED GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE
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CHARLES
EVERYBODY GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE GO GO GO AND EVERYBODY IS YELLING IT WASNT THAT YELL LIKE YOU KNOW THAT ROLLER COASTER YELL OR YOURE YELLING AT SOMEBODY TO DISCIPLINE THEM IT WAS LIKE THAT HORRIFYING SCREAM THAT EVERYBODY WAS RELAYING BACK AND FORWARD
SO EVERYBODY STARTED HAULING ASS OUT OF THERE AND JUMPED BACK ONTO THE DECK AND IM LIKE
EVERYBODY GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE AND EVERYBODY IS RUNNING MUST HAVE BEEN LIKE THE LAST PERSON OUT OF
THE ROOM AND BY THE TIME DECIDED TO GET OUT OF THE
ROOM BEING THE LAST PERSON OUT THE ROOM WAS
COMPLETELY MEAN THE LOADING DOCK WAS COMPLETELY DUSTY IT WAS LIKE FOG YOU COULDNT SEE ANYTHING
BUT THE LIGHT THAT WAS ILLUMINATING THE ROOM
SO GOT BACK INTO THE LOBBY AND THE LOBBY
WAS DUSTY AND IM LIKE SHIT IM GOING TO SUFFOCATE IN HERE STARTED PANICKING BECAUSE COULDNT BREATHE
AND IT WAS HEAVILY DUST TO THE SIDE YOU COULD SEE EACH OTHER BUT YOU COULDNT BREATHE NOW IM PANICKING AND EVERYBODY ELSE IS LIKE LOOKING FOR SOMEWHERE TO BREATHE AND REMEMBER STICKING MY FACE BETWEEN AN ELEVATOR DOOR LIKE THE ELEVATOR SHAFT TO TRY TO GET SOME AIR AND THAT WASNT WORKING AND IM LIKE SHIT
31

CHARLES
IM GOING TO DIE IN HERE NOW SUFFOCATING AND THEN
SOMEBODY PASSED ME WET RAG PUT THE WET RAG ON MY FACE AND WAS ABLE TO BREATHE AGAIN SO IM LIKE ALL
RIGHT COOL
THEN THE SAME SERGEANT WHO TOLD ME NOT TO
TELL ANYBODY THE TOWERS WERE COMING DOWN HE ASKED ME YOU THINK WE COULD DIE FROM THIS DUST IM LIKE RIGHT NOW NO BUT EVENTUALLY YES HES LIKE OKAY SO
THEN WERE ALL LOOKING FOR WAY OUT SO NOW
THE DUST DID LAST
JESUS HITTING
WENT BACK INSIDE AND AT ONE POINT
REMEMBER SAW BUNCH OF PEOPLE RUN DOWN TO THE LOWER LEVELS OF THE BUILDING SO STARTED RUNNING DOWN TO THE LOWER LEVELS OF THE BUILDING AND SEE ALL THESE
PEOPLE IN LIEUTENANT
CAPTAIN
IS BEFORE
THERE WENT BACK UPSTAIRS TO LOOK FOR
CAPTAIN ACTUALLY SAID LISTEN GOT LIKE 60 PEOPLE IN THIS BUILDING THIS
TOWER CAME DOWN SORRY THIS IS BEFORE
COME DOWN LITTLE QUICKER THAN IT WALKED OUTSIDE AND IM JUST LIKE
STARTED
TIME
CHRIST
ME IN MY FACE IM LIKE LET ME GO BACK INSIDE
TO SO
COULDNT EVEN SEE PARTICLES WERE
TOWER CAME DOWN HAD TOLD THE CAPTAIN HAD 60
PEOPLE IN THE BUILDING HE SAID LISTEN IM GOING OVER TO WHATS THAT AROUND WHERE THE LIBERTY BOATS
32

CHARLES
THE BOATS TO THE LIBERTY TO ELLIS ISLAND
NO WHERE THE BOATS LEAVE FROM MANHATTAN OVER TO ELLIS ISLAND HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO BE
THE FERRY TERMINAL
THANK YOU HE WAS GOING OVER TO THE FERRY TERMINAL AND HE WAS LIKE YOURE ON YOUR OWN AND HE LEFT
ME WAS LIKE OKAY THATS WHEN STARTED LOOKING
FOR TECH BAG AND STUFF THAT WAS BEFORE TOWER CAME
DOWN SO ANYWAY RAN INTO ANOTHER RAN INTO LIEUTENANT HE SAYS IM GOING TO SOUTH FERRY YOU CAN STAY HERE IF YOU WANT WAS LIKE ALL RIGHT THATS TWO FOR TWO YOU KNOW WHAT IM SAYING INAUDIBLE UNDERSTOOD THAT THEY WERE SCARED SO IT WASNT LIKE COULD SAY ANYTHING BEHIND HIM SO WAS LIKE ALL
RIGHT GUESS ITS UP TO ME
SO WENT BACK OVER TO BROADWAY AND FULTON AT THAT POINT AND JUST KNEW BOTH THE TOWERS WERE DOWN
YOU COULDNT SEE ANYTHING BUT YOU JUST KNEW THEY WERE DOWN THERE WAS NO SHADOW OR NOTHING SO IT WAS LIKE
WENT BACK INTO THE BUILDING AND SAID SCREW IT LET
ME START EVACUATING THE BUILDING SO STARTED GOING DOWN TO THE LOWER LEVELS AND ENDED UP IN THE GYM OF
THE BUILDING THE NICEST GYM IVE EVER SEEN IN AN
33

CHARLES
OFFICE BUILDING THERE WERE LIKE EIGHT GUYS IN THERE
AND THEYRE LIKE WHATS GOING ON MEAN THEY WERE LIKE WHATS GOING ON BUT LIKE IS ANYBODY LEAVING THE
BUILDING YET IM LIKE LISTEN YOUVE GOT TO GO UPSTAIRS TO DUANE READE BECAUSE AS MATTER OF FACT BEFORE WENT DOWNSTAIRS HEARD ALL THIS COMMOTION
AND IM HEARING VOICES AND SHIT AND IM LIKE ANYBODY STILL IN THERE WENT BACK TO THE LOADING DOCKS BECAUSE HEARD THE COMMOTION BECAUSE ITS AN AREA WHERE YOU CAN GO DOWN TO THE BASEMENT LEVELS BEFORE YOU GO TO THE LOADING DOCKS AND HEARD ALL THIS COMMOTION IN THAT AREA AND COULDNT FOR MY LIFE FIGURE OUT WHERE IT WAS COMING FROM SO WENT UP TO THE LOADING
ONE RESPONDED AS IM
DOCKS YELLED AGAIN NO
WALKING BACK TO THE LOBBY AREA SEE CRACK AND SEE
GO WHATS THAT OH SHIT THATS DUANE READE AND IM LIKE YOU KNOW THERE
PEOPLE BEING HANDED WET RAGS WITH WATER BY THE LIEUTENANT AND HES TELLING EVERYBODY TO WALK EAST
IS THIS PD LIEUTENANT OR AN EMS LIEUTENANT EMS LIEUTENANT
AN EMS LIEUTENANT
AN EMS LIEUTENANT HES GIVING PEOPLE WATER
AND WET RAG AND TELLING THEM TO GO EAST TO THE RIVER
PEOPLE MOVING AROUND AND
34

CHARLES
GO EAST TO THE RIVER SO EVERYBODY YOU KNOW THEYRE WALKING EAST IM LIKE LIEUTENANT CHARLES 5114
BATTALION 13 HES LIKE ALL RIGHT HE SAID
SOMETHING HE SAID WERE GOING TO GET EVERYBODY ELSE OUT OF HERE WENT ALL RIGHT SO THATS WHEN MADE THE DECISION TO GO
DO YOU REMEMBER WHO THAT LIEUTENANT WAS
NO COULDNT REMEMBER FOR MY LIFE WHO HE WAS BUT REMEMBER GOING BACK TO THE BASEMENT LEVELS
TO GET EVERYBODY ELSE OUT BECAUSE KNEW THERE WAS
PEOPLE STILL DOWNSTAIRS SO WOUND UP IN
THOSE GUYS HAD TV SET AND THATS WHEN
WERE UNDER ATTACK BECAUSE PRIOR TO THAT
TOWER BLEW UP BECAUSE THE ENGINE FROM THE PLANE HIT TOWER AND EXPLODED INSIDE IT WAS LIKE STUPID BUT THATS WHAT THOUGHT THEN THATS WHEN KNEW WE WERE UNDER ATTACK SO SAT THERE FOR LIKE 10 15 MINUTES LOOKING AT THE TV SET AND THEN WAS DRINKING SOME MORE WATER AND WAS LIKE CRAZY DEHYDRATED BECAUSE THE BIKE RIDE ALONE WORE ME OUT YOU KNOW MY LEGS WERE
JUST COMPLETE RUBBER
SO NOW IM DRINKING WATER AND AT THIS POINT
IM WITH THE EMT NAOMI SO WERE GETTING EVERYBODY ELSE OUT OF THE BUILDING SO WE GOT THOSE GUYS OUT THE
THE GYM FOUND OUT WE
THOUGHT
35

CHARLES
GYM THEN STARTED GOING LOWER THAN THAT AND STARTED GETTING PEOPLE OUT OF THE OFFICE AT ONE POINT WENT TO AN OFFICE AND PEOPLE WERE STILL WORKING IM LIKE GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU GUYS DOING THEYRE LIKE OKAY YOU KNOW THEYRE LOCKING UP THEIR STUFF IM LIKE GO DONT WORRY ABOUT THAT
SHIT THEYRE LIKE ALL RIGHT
SO THEN HAD STARTED WALKING THROUGH THE
LOWER LEVELS LOOKING FOR MORE PEOPLE AND RAN INTO MAINTENANCE ROOM WHICH WAS LIKE THE BEST LUCK IN THE WORLD BECAUSE FOUND BOOTS BECAUSE AT THE TIME HAD SKETCHER SHOES ON AND THOSE WERENT DOING ME THEY DID ME GOOD RUNNING FROM THE TOWERS BUT AFTER THAT NEEDED SOMETHING HEAVY DUTY SO FOUND AND LIKE YOU KNOW WHICH WAS THE LUCKIEST THING IN THE WORLD SIZE 13 WHICH ARE LIKE THE HARDEST SHOES TO FIND SO
FOUND THOSE PUT THOSE ON AND STARTED ME AND NAOMI AND ANOTHER GUY THE MAINTENANCE GUY WE STARTED WALKING BACK SO WE WALKED BACK UPSTAIRS WE WALKED BACK UPSTAIRS AND WE STARTED TELLING PEOPLE GET OUT OF HERE SO THEN TOLD NAOMI YOU KNOW LISTEN GET OUT OF HERE YOU KNOW WHAT IM SAYING SHES LIKE NAH NAH ID RATHER STICK WITH YOU IM LIKE OKAY COOL SO WE STUCK TOGETHER FOR LIKE AT LEAST AN HOUR AT
36

CHARLES
THIS POINT WAS JUST LIKE WALKING AROUND ON THE STREETS BECAUSE THERE WAS NOTHING ELSE TO DO
SO NOW WE WENT INTO
WENT INTO BUILDING AND RAN INTO
THERE
DONT KNOW WHAT BUILDING IT WAS BUT IT WAS NEXT TO JR
MUSIC WORLD SO WE GET INTO JR MUSIC MEAN THE BUILDING NEXT TO JR MUSIC WORLD AND THEYRE TALKING
AND OVERHEAR THE COP TELLING EVERYBODY YEAH IT CAME OVER THE RADIO THAT ONE OF THE PLANES ARE HEADING TOWARDS THE TRADE CENTER AND THAT ONE OF THE PLANES
WERE ALREADY HIJACKED IM LIKE TO MYSELF IM LIKE DAMN THEY HEARD ALL THIS REPORT OF THEY HIT THE BUILDINGS HOW COME NO ONE TRIED TO EVACUATE THE BUILDINGS IN TIME WHATEVER AT THAT POINT DIDNT KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE DIED IN THE BUILDINGS NEITHER BUT
KNEW THERE WERE PEOPLE IN THERE SO WERE CHATTING
OFFICERS THEY WERE LIKE JUST
SITTING IN
AND STUFF AND THEN THEM
ALL RIGHT WHATEVER SO
LEAVE
SO NOW
LOST HIS SHIRT SO HES LIKE
INTO THE BUILDING TO GET HIM GYM DOWNSTAIRS GET THE
SHIRTLESS SO RAN BACK SHIRT THAT WAS IN THE
BUILDING
AT ONE POINT FEW PD
GUY DETECTIVE FOR SOME REASON
SHIRT RUN BACK UPSTAIRS AND HE WAS GONE HE MOVED SO THEN NOW ME
37

CHARLES
AND THE DETECTIVES WERE BRINGING UP SHIRTS AND SWEAT PANTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT FROM THE GYM LEVEL
BECAUSE WE KNEW THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE SOME
HALF NAKED PEOPLE RUNNING AROUND YOU KNOW CUT SEVERELY CUT OR WHATEVER AND WE COULD USE LOT OF THAT STUFF AS BANDAGES AND TOURNIQUETS AND STUFF SO WE BROUGHT MOST OF THAT STUFF UPSTAIRS AND WE PUT IT IN
THE LOBBY OF THE BUILDING WE TOOK THE GATORADE FROM THE DUANE READE AND STUFF WE PUT IT IN THE LOBBY OF THE BUILDING 222 BROADWAY AND WE LEFT IT THERE
SO WENT BACK OUTSIDE AND SAW TWO
LIKE SITTING ON THE GROUND IT LOOKED
FIREFIGHTERS
LIKE THEY WERE JUST WINDED LIKE THAT WAS IT FOR THEM THEY WERENT GOING TO DO ANYTHING ELSE ONE WAS ORIENTAL AND WHITE GUY SITTING TOGETHER WENT BACK OUTSIDE RAN INTO ANOTHER EMS LIEUTENANT DONT KNOW WHO HE WAS AND WAS WITH HIM FOR THE BETTER PART OF THE DAY UNTIL LEFT NEVER GOT HIS NAME OR ANYTHING BUT AT THAT POINT HE TOLD ME TO GO TO THIS BUS THEY HAD CITY BUS WITH ALL EMS EQUIPMENT ON IT LIKE THE DEFIBRILLATOR OXYGEN AND ALL THAT STUFF
SO GOT ON THERE AND PARAMEDIC WAS LIKE DO
YOU NEED SOME OXYGEN DO YOU WANT SOME OXYGEN IT LOOKS LIKE YOU NEED SOME OXYGEN IM SAID IM ALL
38

CHARLES
RIGHT IM ALL RIGHT HES LIKE HERE TAKE SOME OF THIS ITS FREE IM LIKE ALL RIGHT SO STARTED
BREATHING ON THE TOOK SOME 02 BECAUSE HAD BAD
HEADACHE AT THAT POINT AND OXYGEN WAS DOING NOTHING FOR ME SO PUT IT DOWN AND TOOK IT OFF THE LIEUTENANT WAS LIKE ALL RIGHT WERE GOING TO GO OVER TO ZZ5 BROADWAY THE BUILDING RIGHT NEXT TO THE DUANE READE
SO WE ALL GRABBED SOME STUFF AND WE LUGGED IT OVER WE GET INTO THE BUILDING WE GET TO THE
BUILDING ACTUALLY WE DIDNT EVEN GET IN THE BUILDING YET BECAUSE FOR SOME REASON THEY WANTED TO GET INTO DUANE READE AS OPPOSED TO WALKING RIGHT INTO 225 BROADWAY THEY CUT DUANE READE OPEN AND THEY USED DUANE READE AS LIKE YOU KNOW BECAUSE THEY HAD ALL THE MEDICAL EQUIPMENT AND THEY HAD PEROXIDE AND ALCOHOL AND STUFF LIKE THAT SO IF WE GET IN THERE WE COULD GO IN THERE JUST TO CUT INTO THE BUILDING
SO NOW WE RE SETTING UP TRIAGE IN THE BUILDING THEYRE SETTING UP SALINE BAGS AND SODIUM
CHLORIDE AND STUFF THEYRE HANGING THEM UP THEY HAD NICE LITTLE TRIAGE CENTER GOING ON IT LOOKED LIKE
LITTLE HOSPITAL SO AT ONE POINT DISAPPEARED BECAUSE NEEDED TO GET SOME TYLENOL GOT ME AN EXCEDRIN
FROM DUANE READE AND POPPED TWO OF THOSE AND THE
39

CHARLES
HEADACHE WENT AWAY ALL RIGHT
SO AT THAT POINT NOW WE WERE JUST WAITING
FOR PATIENTS AND NOBODY WAS COMING IN IT WAS LIKE YOU KNOW THEN WE RAN INTO ANOTHER LIEUTENANT
LIEUTENANT DAVIS THINK HES FROM BATTALION IF IM NOT MISTAKEN
SIDE TWO
TOWERS AND HEARD SIX LOUD EXPLOSIONS
AND THOSE SIX LOUD EXPLOSIONS CHANGED MY MIND REAL QUICK AND WENT BACK OVER TO THE TRIAGE CENTER AND IT
WAS LIKE YOU KNOW WHAT LET ME WAIT HERE HAD NO HELMET HAD NOTHING THAT WOULD HAVE PROTECTED ME
FROM ANYTHING THAT HIT ME IN MY HEAD SO STAYED WHERE WAS AT
REMEMBER AT ONE POINT IM NOT PRETTY SURE WHAT POINT IT WAS RAN OVER TO HARDWARE SHOP THAT
THE FIRE DEPARTMENT HAD BROKEN INTO TO USE LOT OF THE MASKS THAT THEY HAD IN THERE THEY HAD THE SCOTT PACK MASKS AND FOUND SCOTT PACK MASK THAT WAS LAYING THERE BECAUSE FIREFIGHTER HAD TOOK NEW ONE AND GRABBED HIS AND PUT FILTERS IN IT AND USED THAT TO BREATHE WITH AND SEE BECAUSE THE DUST WAS JUST MESSING
MY EYES UP
SO WENT BACK OVER TO 225 BROADWAY AND WAS
TAPE
40

CHARLES
SITTING IN THERE AND NOW AT THAT POINT WERE JUST ALL TALKING CANT BELIEVE WHATS GOING ON AT ONE POINT AMONGST IT WAS THREE EMTS AND TWO PARAMEDICS THAT CAN REMEMBER FOUR PARAMEDICS TWO WERE HAZTAC AND TWO WERENT IT WAS JUST QUIET AND WE WERE JUST
SITTING THERE WAITING AND THEN ME AND ANOTHER EMS GUY EMT WE WERE JUST LIKE YO WE CANT JUST SIT HERE AND
DO NOTHING SO ME AND HIM NEVER GOT HIS NAME
NEITHER BUT ME AND HIM GRABBED TECH BAG AND WE JUST WENT OUTSIDE SO WE STARTED HEADING OVER TO WHERE
BUILDING WAS AT AND THEY WERE LIKE BUILDING IS GOING TO COLLAPSE YOU CANT GO OVER THERE THIS AND THAT AND THERE WAS ANOTHER BUILDING THAT THEY THOUGHT WAS GOING TO COLLAPSE THAT WAS LIKE RIGHT BEHIND THE TRIAGE CENTER THE BUILDING THAT WE WERE IN SO WE STARTED WALKING AROUND
AT ONE POINT WAS LIKE AT ONE POINT ALMOST BROKE DOWN BECAUSE HAD THOUGHT MY FATHER WAS
DEAD BECAUSE HE RESPONDED TO THE 93 BOMBING AND HES
PORT AUTHORITY COP LIKE SAID BEFORE HE RESPONDED TO THE 93 BOMBING HE WAS ON WEST STREET IN FRONT OF
THE TOWER SO THOUGHT HE MIGHT HAVE BEEN OVER
THERE SO SAID IF ANYTHING IM GOING TO WALK OVER THERE TRY AND WORK MY WAY OVER THERE AND LOOK FOR
41

CHARLES
HIM SO IM GOING LIKE STARTED WALKING TOWARDS CHAMBERS NOW TO LOOK FOR HIM BECAUSE IM LOOKING FOR PORT AUTHORITY COP AND KNEW THAT THATS WHERE EVERYBODY PULLED BACK TO WHICH WAS CHAMBERS
SO STARTED WORKING MY WAY OVER THERE AND RUN INTO GROUP OF POLICE OFFICERS WHO WERE SITTING IN FRONT OF BMCC BMCCS GARDEN THERES GARDEN AND THEN THERES AN APARTMENT COMPLEX AND THATS WHERE THEY WERE SITTING SO WE HAD CONVERSATION THEY HAD NO IDEA THEY KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON BUT THEY DIDNT KNOW HOW BAD IT WAS OVER THERE SO STARTED TELLING THEM WHAT WAS GOING AND THEY WERE LIKE JESUS CHRIST
AS STARTED WALKING BACK OVER TO CHAMBERS GOING SOUTH AGAIN TO CHAMBERS BECAUSE WE WERE LITTLE
NORTH OF CHAMBERS WHERE WE RAN INTO THE POLICE OFFICERS STARTED WALKING ME AND THE EMT STARTED WALKING SOUTH HAD RAN INTO FIREFIGHTER THINK
IF IM NOT MISTAKEN HE SAID ENGINE OR LADDER
THATS WHERE GOT THAT FROM HE WAS LOOKING FOR HIS BOYS AND HE COULDNT FIND ANY OF THEM AND HE HAD NOTHING ON ONLY HIS BUNKER PANTS AND HE LOOKED TOTALLY BENT OUT OF SHAPE IT WAS LIKE AT THE TIME IT DIDNT EVEN OCCUR TO ME TO HELP HIM AND LOOK FOR HIS GUYS BECAUSE DIDNT KNOW SO MANY FIREFIGHTERS HAD
42

CHARLES
DIED IN THE TOWERS LIKE THAT THEN ANYWAY WAS REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT LOOKING FOR MY FATHER
SO WENT BACK OFF AND THEN RAN INTO PETE ROSIE FORGOT WHAT UNIT HE WAS ON BUT RAN INTO HIM AND HE WAS GLAD TO SEE ME WAS GLAD TO SEE HIM
IT WAS FACE THAT RECOGNIZED SO WE STARTED TALKING LITTLE BIT WE TALKED GAVE HIM SOME EXCEDRINS
BECAUSE HE HAD BAD HEADACHE TOO
SO WE WALKED ME AND THE EMT NOW WE WALKED
OVER TO WEST STREET AND CHAMBERS WHERE THEY HAD LIKE
ALL THE EMS AND FIREFIGHTERS AND EVERYBODY WAS JUST THERE WAITING AND RAN INTO JERRY TOYLOY OF BATTALION
13 RAN INTO HIM WE WERE TALKING LITTLE BIT
RAN INTO ANOTHER EMS GUY FROM OUR STATION BUT FORGOT
WHO HE WAS THEN STARTED LOOKING FOR MY FATHER AGAIN
RAN INTO CARLOAD OF PORT AUTHORITY
JUMP IN FRONT OF THE CAR AND ALMOST GOT HIT AND THEY
STOPPED AND THEY WERE LIKE YOU KNOW THEY LOOKED AT ME LIKE WHAT THE YOU KNOW WHAT IM SAYING IM SAYING
YOU GUYS KNOW RUDY CHARLES THEY WERE LIKE YEAH YOURE HIS SON RIGHT SAID YEAH YOU SEEN HIM
THEY WERE LIKE YEAH HES PROBABLY STILL OVER THERE IN JERSEY WAS LIKE ALL RIGHT ALL RIGHT THAT MAKES
43
COPS

CHARLES
SENSE KEEP THE OLDER GUYS OVER THERE AND BRING IN THE NEW GUYS SO FOUND OUT HE WAS OKAY AND MY DAY WAS
LOT BETTER SO AT THAT POINT NOW IT WAS JUST ABOUT
HELPING ANYBODY WHO CAME OUT
FOR AT LEAST THREE FOUR HOURS AFTER THAT
THERE WAS JUST NOTHING TO DO THE TRIAGE CENTER WE WERE IN HAD TO BE EVACUATED BECAUSE THEY WERE PRETTY
SURE THAT BUILDING WAS GOING TO COME DOWN INTO IT SO WE ALL MOVED OVER TO PACE UNIVERSITY AT THAT POINT
THERE WAS JUST NOTHING BUT COPS DONT KNOW WHY THERE WERE COURT OFFICERS OVER THERE IT DIDNT EVEN
MAKE SENSE THAT THE COURT OFFICERS WERE THERE THIS IS
MY OPINION BUT THEY WERE THERE LIKE JUST MILLING AROUND COPS FIREFIGHTERS EVERYBODY WAS JUST HELPING OUT BRINGING ALL THE EQUIPMENT OVER TO PACE
UNIVERSITY THEN THEY HAD AN EVEN BETTER TRIAGE CENTER SET UP OVER THERE THEY HAD LIKE LITTLE BEDS AND
STUFF AT THAT POINT RAN INTO FEW EMTS
RECOGNIZED WENT INTO SALGUERA FROM 16 LETS SEE WHO ELSE DID RUN INTO THAT WAS IT THEN RAN INTO
FEW FIRE CADET BUDDIES THAT GRADUATED WITH
THROUGHOUT THE DAY AND THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH IT AT ONE POINT THINK IT WAS LIEUTENANT
DAVID HE HAD SAID IT WAS AROUND 700 OCLOCK AT
44

CHARLES
NIGHT HE HAD SAID FOR US TO GO HOME BECAUSE THEY WERENT GOING TO PULL ANYBODY OUT AND KNEW THEY WERENT GOING TO PULL ANYBODY OUT ALIVE BUT JUST IN CASE THEY HAD FLOOD OF BODIES THEY WERE GOING TO PULL OUT COULD HELP BUT AT THAT POINT WAS JUST VERY DRAINED PISSED OFF UPSET SAD SCARED IT WAS LIKE YOU KNOW WHAT
SO THEN WENT BACK TO MY BIKE WENT BACK TO MY BIKE WHICH WAS ON DEY AND SHE WAS COMPLETELY MESS HER TIRES WERE BURNT OFF SHE WAS COMPLETELY
DUSTED SO TOOK THE CHAIN OFF AND LUGGED HER UP
PUT THE BIKE ON MY BACK AND STARTED WALKING TOWARDS
CHAMBERS AND RAN INTO FIREFIGHTER WHO QUESTIONED ME ABOUT THE FIRE JACKET HAD ON HE HAD LOOKED AT ME
AND HE WAS LIKE WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THAT JACKET
IM LIKE IM EMS HES LIKE OH OKAY IM LIKE
THINK ID BE STEALING BIKE AT TIME LIKE THIS HE GOES ITS NOT THE BIKE IM WORRIED ABOUT
PRIOR TO THAT DID BREAK OPEN COMMAND CAR
JUST FOR YOU KNOW IF ANYBODY WONDERED WHY
INAUDIBLE BROKE INTO COMMAND CAR HAD ASKED
45
YOU

CHARLES
FIREFIGHTER AT ONE POINT TO OPEN IT UP FOR ME ASKED HIM FOR AN AX OR HALLIGAN TOOL HE WAS LIKE
WELL WHO ARE YOU WAS LIKE WORK FOR EMS HE WAS LIKE YOU GOT ANY ID JUST THE WAY HE SAID IT PISSED ME OFF SO DIDNT EVEN SHOW HIM ID WALKED AWAY
GO OVER TO POLICE OFFICER AND GO GUYS CAN YOU DO ME FAVOR AND OPEN UP THE COMMAND CAR FOR ME WITHOUT ANY QUESTIONS ASKED ID OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT HE WENT OVER TO THE COMMAND CAR BUSTED THE GLASS OPEN AND WE GOT ALL THE EQUIPMENT OUT OF THERE LIKE THAT
THERE WERE FEW LITTLE TRIAGE CENTERS AS MATTER OF FACT THROUGHOUT THE DAY THAT WERE LIKE SET UP THAT STARTED BEING SHUT DOWN AND MOVED TO BIGGER TRIAGE CENTER FOUND OUT THERE WAS ONE IN LIBERTY PLAZA SO THROUGHOUT THE DAY WAS JUST HELPING
COLLECT EQUIPMENT
OXYGEN TANKS THE
AND CARRIED LIKE
DECIDED WASNT SUPERMAN BECAUSE THOSE THINGS ARE HEAVY ASKED FOR HELP AND CARRIED IT THE REST OF THE WAY BUT BEFORE WOULD HAVE TO GO HOME HAD TO TAKE THAT BIKE ON MY BACK AND WALK FROM AT THAT POINT
WAS WHERE PACE UNIVERSITY WAS AT ALL THE WAY TO
CANAL STREET CARRYING THE BIKE ON MY BACK AND THAT WAS
WAS CARRYING THE TANKS THE CRATE HOLDS THINK TEN TWELVE ONE OF THOSE WHOLE BLOCK BEFORE
46

PRETTY
CHARLES
MUCH IT
GOT HOME GOT TO 28TH STREET AND
REMEMBER PEOPLE JUST LOOKING AT ME LIKE JESUS CHRIST LOOK AT HIM LIKE THEY COULDNT BELIEVE IT WENT
INTO FUNERAL PARLOR BECAUSE THEY HAD TV ON AND THEY WERE SHOWING ALL THIS STUFF THAT HAPPENED AND HAD NEVER ACTUALLY SEEN THE PLANES GO INTO THE TOWERS BECAUSE WHEN WAS IN THE GYM AT THE POINT WHEN WAS IN THE GYM JUST HEARD WE WERE UNDER ATTACK AND THAT THE PENTAGON WAS HIT AND THE TRADE CENTER AND PENNSYLVANIA BUT DIDNT SEE THE PLANE GO INTO THE BUILDING UNTIL GOT INTO THE FUNERAL PARLOR LIKE HOURS LATER AND SAT WITH THEM AND THEY WERE LIKE OH MY GOD YOU WERE DOWN THERE THEYRE LIKE YO YOU WANT SOME WATER YOU WANT SOMETHING TO EAT YOU KNOW WHAT
MEAN THAT FELT GOOD THAT THEY ACKNOWLEDGED ME LIKE THAT IM LIKE NO DONT WORRY ABOUT THAT JUST
WANT TO WATCH THIS REAL QUICK
THEN GOT HOME BACK TO MY AT THE TIME
GIRLFRIEND NOW WIFE GOT HOME AND SHE WAS CRYING
GOT HOME AND MY PARENTS HAD THOUGHT WAS DEAD BECAUSE MY MOTHER IS IN FLORIDA AND MY FATHER HE WAS
IN JERSEY MY BROTHER DECIDES TO GO TO SLEEP AT 900 OCLOCK SO HE DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON UNTIL 300
47

CHARLES
OCLOCK IN THE AFTERNOON HE WOKE UP TO MY MOTHER
YELLING OVER THE ANSWERING MACHINE HE JUMPS UP AND HE KNEW SOMETHING WAS WRONG BECAUSE THE WAY SHE WAS YELLING HE GOES OVER TO THE ANSWERING MACHINE 14
BACK TO BACK MESSAGES SO HE STARTED LISTENING TO
THEM MY WIFE HAD CALLED THEY WERE LOOKING FOR ME
EVERYBODY WAS LOOKING FOR ME AND MY FATHER AND THEY HAD KNEW MY FATHER WAS OKAY BECAUSE THAT CALL CAME IN
AT 200 OCLOCK BUT THEY HADNT RECEIVED CALL FROM ME UNTIL LIKE 500 600 OCLOCK SO THEY THOUGHT WAS DEAD AND MY MOTHER IS MAKING PRAYER AND THEYRE LIKE WELL IF HES GONE HE WENT TO HELL IM LIKE OKAY
SO AFTER EVERYTHING WAS SAID AND DONE HAD TO REPORT BACK TO WORK HERE THE NEXT DAY CALLED MY LIEUTENANT SAID WAS OFF AT 800 HE SAID WELL YOU HAVE TO COME BACK AT 800 OCLOCK IN THE MORNING
THOUGHT TO MYSELF THE HELL AM YOU KNOW WHAT IM
SAYING AT THAT POINT EVERYTHING STARTED HITTING ME
IT WAS JUST LIKE IT STARTED TO BOTHER ME AND JUST GOT
REALLY SAD AND DEPRESSED GOT BACK INTO WORK EVENTUALLY ABOUT LIKE 400 OCLOCK IN THE AFTERNOON THE
NEXT DAY BUT WASNT RUSHING BACK IN BECAUSE WAS SO TIRED AND DRAINED AND IT WAS LIKE AND TO BE HONEST
48

CHARLES
WITH YOU SHOULD HAVE NEVER LEFT THAT DAY SHOULD HAVE JUST STAYED THERE UNTIL PASSED OUT OF EXHAUSTION
OR SOMETHING SHOULDNT HAVE LEFT BECAUSE WAS
TIRED THAT DAY AND THOSE GUYS WHO STAYED THERE LIKE TWO
WEEKS STRAIGHT AND WENT HOME SO THATS THE ONLY
THING FELT GUILTY ABOUT IF ANYTHING FELT GUILTY
IT WAS THAT MEAN IT WAS JUST LIKE THE WORST DAY IN
EVERYBODYS LIVES MEAN COULDNT BELIEVE IT REMEMBER WHAT PISSED ME OFF GOING HOME WAS
THE FACT THAT EVERYBODY WAS LIKE LAUGHING AND LOOKING LIKE THEY WERE GOING OUT TO THE BARS AND STILL EATING
IN DINERS IM LIKE KNOW PEOPLE ARE SUPPOSED TO GO ON BUT THAT WAS TO ME LITTLE TOO SOON PEOPLE WERE OUT THERE LAUGHING IN THE STREETS AND THEN THERES LAUGHING AND THEY STOPPED TO LOOK AT ME LIKE OH MY GOD LOOK AT HIM LOOK AT HIS BIKE IT WAS WEIRD
THATS PRETTY MUCH IT MEAN ANYTHING ELSE THAT WILL COME TO MIND IM TRYING TO WRITE LITTLE
SCRIPTURE ABOUT EVERYTHING WENT THROUGH THAT DAY SO OF COURSE STUFF LIKE THAT WILL COME BACK TO ME LATER GUESS THATS PRETTY MUCH IT
OKAY IS THERE ANYTHING YOUD LIKE TO ADD TO THIS INTERVIEW
NO NOT REALLY
49

50
CHARLES
MR ECCLESTON THE INTERVIEW IS CONCLUDED AT 2212 THE COUNTER ON THE RECORDER IS 775
BEING

FILE NO 9110487
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW CAPTAIN PAUL CONLON
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 26 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

CONLON
CHIEF MCGRATH TODAYS DATE IS JANUARY 23RD 2002 THE TIME IS 1450 HOURS THIS
IS BATTALION CHIEF JAMES MCGRATH OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH CAPTAIN PAUL CONLON OF ENGINE 216
THIS INTERVIEW IS TAKING PLACE IN
AT NINE METROTECH AND ITS REGARDING THE EVENTS THAT TOOK PLACE ON
SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
CAP IF YOU WOULD PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND JUST RECALL THE EVENTS TO THE BEST OF YOUR RECOLLECTION
PAUL CONLON CAPTAIN AND WAS WORKING IN 216 ENGINE SA ON SEPTEMBER 11TH
WE SAW THE FIRST PLANE HIT ON TV WE WATCHED ACTUALLY FROM THE ROOF THE BUILDING BURN THE ROOF OF THE FIREHOUSE 216 ENGINE NOT KNOWING THE AREA DIDNT KNOW WHEN WE WERE GOING TO RESPOND SO WENT DOWN AND STARTED TO DO RIDING LIST AND ROLL CALL AND STUFF IN CASE WE HAD TO EITHER RESPOND OR RELOCATE
THEN HEARD QUYS YELLINQ HOLY SMOKES WENT IN THE KITCHEN AND THE SECOND
BROOKLYN HEADQUARTERS

CONLON
PLANE HAD JUST HIT WATCHED THAT ON TV AT THAT POINT CALLED THE ROLL CALL IN FRONT OF THE
RIG GAVE OUT THE RIDING POSITIONS WITH THE HELP OF DAN SUHR HE WAS THE SENIOR MAN WORKING
ACTUALLY HAD WORKED WITH 216 THE DAY BEFORE SO MET HIM THE DAY BEFORE HE WAS WORKING BOTH
DAYS
DAN HAD THE CONTROL OR THE HOOKUP AS HE CALLED IT TED MURRAY WAS THE CHAUFFEUR CHRIS
WAS THE NOZZLE AND TONY SANSEVIRO WAS THE BACKUP JOHN JOHNSON WAS SUPPOSED TO BE DETAILED
TO ANOTHER COMPANY DONT KNOW WHERE WE GOT MESSAGE FROM THE BATTALION EVERYBODY WAS GOING TO
RIDE WITH FIVE JOHN JOHNSON WAS
GAVE HIM THE DOOR HE WAS GOING TO BE OUR FIFTH
MAN
THEN WE GOT THE RUN TO RESPOND TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER TOLD THE GUYS WE ARE
EIGHTH OR NINTH DUE ON FIFTH ALARM TOLD THEM TO BRING THEIR SHOES WE WOULD BE THERE WHILE
WE TAKE OFF WE TOOK BROADWAY WE TOOK THE
WILLIAMSBURG BRIDGE
MANHATTAN FREQUENCY RIQHT WAY BECAUSE IT WAS MANHATTAN BOX
SWITCHED OVER TO
PROBY

CONLON
AS WE WERE GOING UP TO THE WILLIAMSBURG
BRIDGE JUST PICTURED THERE WAS GOING TO BE LOT OF TRAFFIC THE WILLIAMSBURG BRIDGE WAS CLOSED TO ALL TRAFFIC ALREADY EXCEPT FOR US
EXCEPT FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT
SO WENT BACK TO BROOKLYN FREQUENCY
AND TRIED TO GET THROUGH TO LET THEM KNOW THAT
THE WILLIAMSBURG BRIDGE IS GOOD ROUTE INTO MANHATTAN TRIED TWO OR THREE TIMES AND
COULDNT GET THROUGH WANTED TO GET BACK TO MANHATTAN TO SEE IF THEY HAD ANY MESSAGES
NEVER GOT THAT MESSAGE THROUGH
WENT BACK TO MANHATTAN FREQUENCY AND
THEY WERE TELLING US THAT UNITS RESPONDING TO TWO WORLD TRADE CENTER THE FIFTH ALARM FOR TWO WORLD
TRADE CENTER REPORT IN TO WEST AND LIBERTY AND REPORT IN TO CHIEF BARBARA AT WEST AND LIBERTY
WAS THINKING THEY DONT WANT TO GET US CONFUSED WITH THE ONE WORLD TRADE CENTER
RESPONSE
SO WHEN HEARD THAT KNEW WANTED TO APPROACH FROM THE SOUTH SO WE WOULDNT BE QETTINQ MUCKED UP WITH THE ONE WORLD TRADE CENTER
GUESS
RESPONSE
SO THATS WHAT WE DID WE GOT OFF THE

BRIDGE WE MADE LEFT PROBABLY ON ALLEN
STREET HEADING THAT WAY HEADING SOUTH WE MADE OUR WAY OVER TO SOUTH STREET STILL
THINK
HEADING
SOUTH
WHEN WE GOT AROUND THE SOUTH STREET
CONLON
SEAPORT IT WAS ALL BLOCKED UP NOT JUST WITH TRAFFIC BUT WITH CONSTRUCTION MATERIAL WE COULDNT GET DOWN THE BLOCK SO WE HAD TO GO WEST LITTLE BIT
NOW WE WENT DOWN WHATEVER BLOCK THAT IS MAYBE BROADWAY DONT KNOW WHATEVER IT
WAS WE WENT DOWN THE BLOCK WE GOT TO ABOUT THE SOUTH FERRY AND WE HAD SOME TROUBLE GETTING THROUGH TRAFFIC GOT OUT OF THE RIG TO TRY TO GET US THROUGH AND DAN SUHR GOT OUT HE SAID ILL GO TO THE LEFT SAID ILL GO TO THE RIGHT WELL TRY TO FIND WAY TO GET OUT WE WERE STUCK IN GRIDLOCK
GOT TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT AGENT HE
STOPPED SOME TRAFFIC SO WE GET THROUGH JUMP BACK ON THE RIG NOW WE GOT RIGHT THERE NOW SO
NOW WE RE ON WEST STREET WE PARKED ABOUT THREE BLOCKS FROM THE WORLD TRADE CENTER BECAUSE THERE WAS SPOT THERE TO PARK THERE WERE RIGS THERE

CONLON
ALREADY TOLD THE CHAUFFEUR TO STOP HERE WELL PARK HERE
WE GOT OFF THE RIG WE PARKED THE GUYS GOT THEIR GEAR AND WE START WALKING UP WE
PROBABLY WALKED UP ABOUT THOUGHT IT WAS TWO BLOCKS OR SO AT THIS POINT TRUCK GOES BLOWING BY US IT WAS EITHER 105 OR LOZ AS SAW THE
TRUCK GO BY THOUGHT BOY WE PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE TRIED TO PARK CLOSER BECAUSE WERE GOING TO
BE DOING LOT OF WALKING YOU KIND OF SECOND
SOMETIMES BUT WE DIDNT
SO WE WALK UP WE FIND CHIEF BARBARA
ALTHOUGH THEY SAID WEST AND LIBERTY HE WASNT NORTH OF THE SOUTH PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE HE WAS SOUTH OF THAT BRIDGE SO HE WAS SOMEWHERE ALONG WEST STREET BETWEEN ALBANY AND LIBERTY WHEN WE REPORTED IN TO HIM
THERE WERE TWO OTHER COMPANIES THERE TWO ENGINE COMPANIES 205 AND 217 CHIEF BARBARA
TOLD ME QUICK TELL YOUR GUYS TO PUT THEIR GEAR DOWN OPEN UP THEIR COATS WERE GOING TO BE HERE FOR LITTLE WHILE TURNED AROUND WE ALL HAD AN EXTRA CYLINDER WITH US AND THE QUYS HAD THEIR ROLLUPS
GUESS YOURSELVES

CONLON
STARTED TO GIVE THAT ORDER PUT MY CYLINDER DOWN AND STARTS OPENING UP MY COAT AND
THE CHIEF SAID OH NOPE YOURE GOING TO GO INTO THE LOBBY COMMAND POST NOW SAID ALL
RIGHT SO BUTTONED MY COAT PICKED UP MY CYLINDER THE OTHER GUYS NEVER EVEN PUT THEIR STUFF DOWN WE SAID UKAY LETS GO
HE POINTED TO THE LOBBY COMMAND POST AGAIN YOU COULD SEE THE ENTRANCE YOU CAN POINT
TO THE LOBBY COMMAND POST HE POINTED TO THE ENTRANCE OF TWO WORLD TRADE CENTER FROM WHERE HE WAS STANDING YOU COULD SEE IT IT WAS PROBABLY 200 YARDS OR SOMETHING
LOOK AT IT THERES BURNING DEBRIS EVERYWHERE THERE WAS AN ENGINE COMPANY NORTH OF
US NORTH OF THAT PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE PUTTING SOMETHING OUT PUTTING OUT CAR FIRE OR LARGE THING OF RUBBISH OR SOMETHING THERE WAS BURNING DEBRIS ON THE GROUND THERE WERE PEOPLE JUMPING
SO WERE LOOKING AT THE SCENE AND DAN SUHR SAID SOMETHING LIKE LETS MAKE THIS
QUICK WAS THINKING THE SAME THING SAID TO THE QUYS LETS QO WE START WALKINQ WE
WALKED IN DIAGONAL LINE STRAIGHT FROM THE

CONLON
COMMAND POST TO THE ENTRANCE OF TWO WORLD TRADE CENTER
WERE WALKING 216 WERE KIND OF
LEADING THE WAY NOT SO MUCH LEADING THE WAY BUT WE JUST HAPPENED TO BE WALKING FIRST THE
OTHER GUYS WERE STILL PUTTING THEIR GEAR ON
GUESS Z05 AND Z17 WERE RIGHT WITH US THOUGH SOMEWHERE LITTLE BEHIND US THOUGH THERE WERE
NO COMPANIES IN FRONT OF ME AS WALKED
WE GOT ABOUT HALFWAY THERE AND DAN
SUHR GETS HIT WITH JUMPER HE WAS RIGHT TO MY RIGHT AND BEHIND ME IT WAS AS IF HE EXPLODED
IT WASNT LIKE YOU HEARD SOMETHING FALLING AND YOU COULD JUMP OUT OF THE WAY HE GETS HIT
THE GUYS ARE LIKE OH FUCK THEY
DROP THEIR ROLLUPS DROP THE CYLINDER ME AND ANOTHER GUY LOOK AT EACH OTHER AND AT THE SAME
TIME WE BOTH SAID LETS GET HIM UNDERNEATH THE
SCAFFOLDING THERE WAS SCAFFOLDING ACROSS THE WAY ON THE NORTH SIDE OF 90 WEST STREET AT THAT
TIME
QUY UP
THERE WAS SCAFFOLDING
SO WEGO TO PICK HIM UP HES BIG
OTHER FIREMEN STOPPED TO HELP US PICK HIM DIDNT KNOW WHO AT THAT TIME IVE HEARD
UP

CONLON
WHO SINCE THINK ALL OF 205 ENGINE STOPPED TO HELP US PICK HIM UP AND THINK TWO MEMBERS OF
217 STOPPED TO HELP US
DONT KNOW WHO HELPED ACTUALLY PICK HIM UP OR WHO HELPED DO OTHER STUFF WE WERE
TAKING HIS COAT OFF WE WERE PICKING HIM UP SOMEONE PICKED UP HIS HELMET AND THINGS LIKE THAT
CALLED ENGINE 216 TO COMMAND POST MAYDAY HAVE MEMBER WITH LIFE THREATENING
INJURY ONE OF THE GUY SAYS HE STILL HAS
PULSE THEY TOOK HIS PULSE RIGHT ON THE GROUND THERE WE GOT HIM UNDER THE SCAFFOLDING
WHEN CALLED THE MAYDAY ALSO CALLED FOR AN AMBULANCE AT WEST AND LIBERTY BECAUSE
THEY COULDNT HAVE GOTTEN AN AMBULANCE ANY CLOSER TO US DIDNT REALIZE WHERE LIBERTY
REALLY THOUGHT WAS AT LIBERTY GUESS
WAS AT ALBANY
CALLED FOR THE AMBULANCE CALLED
THE MAYDAY WE GET HIM UNDER THE SCAFFOLDING TWO GUYS COME RUNNING UP WITH LONG BOARD TWO FIREMEN CAME RUNNINQ UP WITH AN ORANQE LONQ BOARD THEY MUST HAVE GOTTEN IT OFF THEIR RIG
WAS

CONLON 10
THINK THEY WERE FROM 217
WE PUT THE LONG BOARD DOWN WE PUT HIM
ON THE LONG BOARD WE TAKE OFF HIS COAT AND HIS MASK WHATEVER WASNT OFF ALREADY THE GUYS WERE
DOING CPR THE AMBULANCE CAME UP PRETTY QUICKLY THEY CAME RUNNING DOWN THE BLOCK TWO MEDICS OR THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN EMTS THEY WERE MEDICS
TWO MEDICS CAME RUNNING DOWN THE BLOCK
WITH STRETCHER THEY PUT THE STRETCHER DOWN
WE PICKED UP THE LONG BOARD PUT IT ON WE STRAP HIM ON ONE OF THE MEDICS OPENS UP HIS BAG AND
STARTS GOING THROUGH HIS PROTOCOL HES STARTING TO TAKE OUT SYRINGES YOU KNOW SAID TO HIM
LETS JUST GET HIM TO THE HOSPITAL BECAUSE VERY OFTEN THEY GO THROUGH THAT PROTOCOL AND IT
TAKES LONG TIME HE SAID YEAH YOURE RIGHT SO HE CLOSES UP HIS BAG
WE WHEEL HIM TO THE AMBULANCE AND PUT HIM IN THE AMBULANCE AS WE WERE PUTTING HIM IN
AS THE GUYS WERE PUTTING HIM IN CALLED AGAIN
216 TO COMMAND POST FOR POLICE ESCORT
BECAUSE IT TOOK US LONG TIME WE HIT LOT OF
TRAFFIC QETTINQ THERE AND JUST PICTURED THEM HAVING TROUBLE GETTING OUT OF THERE

CONLON 11
RIGHT AS CALLED FOR IT HIGHWAY COP TALKED TO CHIEF BARBARA AGAIN
HIGHWAY COP COMES BY AND FLAG HIM DOWN HE COMES SHOOTING OVER TELL HIM WHAT WE WANT TO DO DIDNT KNOW WHERE THEY WERE GOING YET ASKED THE EMT WHERE ARE YOU GOING HE SAID ST VINCENTS WENT BACK AND SAID
THEYRE GOING TO ST VINCENTS IS THAT ALL RIGHT SO
HE WINDS HIS WAY IN FRONT OF THE AMBULANCE
WHEN GOT BACK TO THE AMBULANCE
DR KELLY WAS IN THERE DONT KNOW WHERE SHE CAME FROM SHES STILL KIND OF JUST ABOUT ABOUT STEPPING OUT SHES LOOKING AT HIM SHE GOES TO STEP OUT HELP HER DOWN SHE LOOKED AT ME GAVE ME SHAKE OF THE HEAD LIKE HES NOT GOING
TO MAKE IT
TWO GUYS FROM 216 ARE IN THERE DOING CPR AND CLOSED THE DOORS AND THE AMBULANCE TAKES OFF LOOK AROUND AND ITS ME AND THE PROBY THATS THE ONLY GUY THATS LEFT LOOK AT OUR GEAR WHERE WE DROPPED IT WHICH IS BETWEEN US AND THE ENTRANCE THINK WE CAN GET THAT IN
MINUTE
SAID LETS GO BACK TO THE RIG AND

CONLON 12
WELL REGROUP WELL FIND THE CHAUFFEUR SO WE START WALKING BACK AND THE BUILDING CAME DOWN THAT WAS IT WE JUST STARTED RUNNING IM
SAYING HAIL MARYS DONT KNOW IF WAS SAYING THEM OUT LOUD OR TO MYSELF
WE START RUNNING AND WERE ON WEST
STREET WEST AND LIBERTY WERE RIGHT AT THE CORNER OF 90 WEST STREET THERES THAT BLANK
AREA THERE THATS PARKING LOT THERE WERE CARS
PARKED THERE THINK IN THE PARKING LOT
WE START RUNNING 15 TRUCK IS PARKED
IN FRONT OF US AS WE START TO RUN FOR MINUTE WAS GOING TO DIVE UNDER IT AND DIDNT BUT WENT AROUND LIKE THE RIGHT SIDE OF IT AND THE
PROBY WENT AROUND THE LEFT SIDE OF IT HE IS TALLER THAN ME AND HES YOUNGER SO HES RUNNING FASTER WHICH IS GOOD HES AHEAD OF ME
BUT WHEN WE GOT AROUND TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE RIG YOU CANT SEE ANYTHING NOW THOUGHT MAY HAVE SEEN HIM OFF TO MY LEFT BUT WASNT EVEN SURE IM JUST RUNNING NOW THE DUST IS ALL AROUND US SO DONT KNOW WHERE HE IS
MAKE MY WAY BACK TO THE RIG WHICH

PROBABLY
DEAD
JUST SAID TO HIM DANS HE SAID
CONLON 13
WAS PROBABLY PARKED GUESS BETWEEN RECTOR AND CARLISLE AS IM LOOKING AT IT BECAUSE WE WERE ABOUT THREE BLOCKS FROM THE BUILDING GOT BACK TO THE RIG FOUND THE CHAUFFEUR SAID IS THE PROBY HERE HE SAID NO THEN REALIZE THE CHAUFFEUR DOESNT EVEN KNOW THAT DAN SUHR IS
WHERE ARE THE OTHER GUYS SAID DAN WAS HIT
BY SOMETHING HES HURT HES HURT PRETTY BADLY SAID HES HURT HE SAID HOW BAD SAID HES HURT PRETTY BADLY SAID THE OTHER GUYS WENT WITH HIM TO THE HOSPITAL
AT THIS POINT SAID IVE GOT TO GO SEE IF CAN FIND THE PROBY CIVILIANS ARE COMING UP TO US THEYRE COVERED IN DUST THE CHAUFFEUR TAKES OUT THE EMS WATER AND STARTS CLEANING THEM
LEAVE BACKTRACK AND WENT BACK TO 15 TRUCK CALLING OUT JOHN JOHNSON HAD TO LOOK AT MY RIDING LIST TO SEE HIS NAME WHO WAS WORKING YOU KNOW WHAT MEAN JOHN JOHNSON IM CALLING OUT
QO BACK TO 15 TRUCK BECAUSE KNEW HAD SEEN HIM THERE AND STARTED WORKING MY WAY
UP

UP THERE LOOKED UNDER IT MY WAY NORTH LOOKED DOWN BLOCKS DONT SEE HIM
THE RIG WAS LITTLE BIT
STARTED WORKING COUPLE OF THESE
WENT SOUTH OF WHERE DONT SEE HIM GO
CONLON
14
BACK TO THE RIG SAID IS HE HERE HE SAID NO
THEN ALL OF SUDDEN HE APPEARS GUESS 20 MINUTES DONT KNOW HOW MUCH TIME
WENT BY HE COMES BACK SO FOR LITTLE WHILE IM MISSING HIM TOO BUT HES BACK WERE STILL HELPING PEOPLE OUT THEN SAID WEVE GOT TO GO BACK THERES GUYS BURIED
WE START WALKING BACK AT ONE POINT IN THERE MEMBER OF EITHER 216 OR 108 CAME RUNNING BY WITH SHORTS ON AND HELMET HE WAS OFF DUTY
HES HEADING NORTH MY CHAUFFEUR STARTS RUNNING AFTER HIM SO IM RUNNING AFTER BOTH OF THEM
SAYING TO THE CHAUFFEUR COME BACK AND GET YOUR
GEAR HE HAS NO GEAR YOU KNOW SO HE STOPS TURNS AROUND TO GET HIS GEAR
THEN THE NORTH TOWER IS COMING DOWN DONT KNOW WHERE WE WERE PROBABLY AROUND ALBANY STREET ON WEST STREET WHEN THE NORTH TOWER CAME DOWN WERE NOT RUNNING NOW WERE

CONLON 15
WALKINGRUNNING AWAY FROM IT PROBABLY RUNNING WE HOOKED UP WITH PARAMEDIC
THE PROBY HAS HIS MASK ON AND HE HAS HIS FACE PIECE ON HAD MASK ON MY BACK SO TURNED THAT ON THIS TIME WERE MASK SHARING IN THE STREET NOW AS WE WALK AWAY IM SHARING MY MASK WITH THE CHAUFFEUR WHO IS ON MY LEFT AND PARAMEDIC WHO CAME UP OUT OF NOWHERE ON MY RIGHT TOLD HIM JUST BREATHE NORMALLY
WERE KIND OF WALKING THEN WE STOPPED
AND WERE LEANING AND TRYING TO BREATHE SHARING THE MASK WHEN THE DUST SETTLES ENOUGH WE WENT
BACK TO THE RIG THIS TIME IT KIND OF REPEATED ITSELF BUT THERE WERE NO CIVILIANS AROUND ANYMORE JUST SOME COPS AND PARAMEDICS COMING UP TO US THEYRE GAGGING AND THEY CANT BREATHE WE GIVE THEM MOSTLY WATER TO HELP WASH THEIR
OUT AND THEY TOOK SIPS OF WATER
SAID TO THE OTHER TWO GUYS THEYRE
LOOKING AT ME LIKE WHAT ARE WE DOING SAID WEVE GOT TO HEAD BACK THERE OBVIOUSLY THERES
GUYS BURIED THEY SAID YEAH
WE START HEADINQ BACK WE PROBABLY QOT
TO AROUND WHERE THE COMMAND POST HAD BEEN MAYBE
EYES

CONLON 16
NOT EVEN DONT KNOW WHERE EXACTLY SOMEWHERE NORTH OF ALBANY STREET THERES CHIEF THERE DONT KNOW WHO HE WAS HE HAD COAT ON AND SHOES AND PANTS NO BUNKER GEAR HE SAID WE
HAVE NO WATER HES IN SHOCK LIKE THE REST OF US HE SAID WE HAVE NO WATER HES GOT THIS
FACE ON WE SAID ALL
SO WE START WALKING BACK AS WE WERE
GOING THERE ANOTHER COMPANY CAME BY THINK 286 ENGINE THEY CAME BY LIKE DOUBLE TIME THEY
CAME BY LIKE REALLY FAST WERE WALKING KIND OF IN SHOCK GOING BACK NORTH AGAIN AND THEY KIND OF RAN BY US
WHEN GOT TO THIS CHIEF HE WAS ASKING FOR WATER WE BOTH GOT THERE AT THE SAME TIME
SO WE BOTH TURNED AROUND TO GO BACK TO OUR RIG TO TRY TO FIND WATER DONT KNOW WHERE 286 WENT THEN THOUGH
WE GET BACK TO THE RIG WE PROBABLY MADE LEFT ONTO RECTOR PLACE LOOKING AT THIS
RIGHT
KNOW WE MADE RIGHT ONTO SOUTH END AVENUE WE CHECKED LIKE FIVE HYDRANTS ON SOUTH
END THEY WERE ALL DEAD
SO GET ON THE RADIO AND SAID ENGINE
MAP

CONLON 17
216 TO COMMAND POST WE WERE GOING TO TELL THEM
THESE HYDRANTS ARE DEAD IM JUST PICTURING LIKE THERES SOME KIND OF COMMAND POST SOMEWHERE AND
THEYRE GOING TO SAY ALL RIGHT SOUTH END AVENUE THE MAIN IS KNOCKED OUT WE HAVE TO GO
TO THE NORTH IM FIGURING SOMEBODY IS FIGURING THIS STUFF OUT
SAID THE HYDRANTS ARE DEAD AND THERES NO ANSWER ENGINE 216 TO COMMAND POST THERES JUST SILENCE THERES NOTHING THERES JUST COMPLETE SILENCE CALL AGAIN THERES NO ANSWER
NOW IM ON THE RIG AND OVER THE MANHATTAN FREQUENCY HEARD FIRE BOAT
DIDNT HEAR WHERE THEY SAID THEY WERE BUT THEY SAID SOMETHING ABOUT ON LOCATION SAID TO THE CHAUFFEUR LETS JUST HEAD TO THE RIVER GO FIND THE FIRE BOAT AND WE WILL TRY TO GET SOME WATER WE TRIED TO GO THAT ROUTE
THATS WHAT WE DID WE WENT UP RECTOR
PLACE THINK GOT ONTO THAT ESPLANADE WE WENT OVER CURBS WE WERENT ON LIKE ROAD REALLY
SEE THE FIRE BOAT IT MUST HAVE BEEN AT
ALBANY IT WAS AT ALBANY STREET SO WE SHOOT UP

CONLON 18
TO ALBANY STREET
JUST AS WE PULL UP ANOTHER RIG CAME
DOWN ALBANY STREET CAME WEST ON ALBANY STREET RIGHT IN FRONT OF US SO THEY HOOKED UP TO THE
FIRE BOAT AND WE STARTED STRETCHING WE STARTED STRETCHING TWO LINES THE FIRE BOAT LINE WHICH
WAS LIKE FIVE INCH LINE AND THREE AND INCH LINE FROM THAT RIG THAT PULLED UP THERE ME AND THIS GUY WHO WAS FIREMAN
HALF
WITH DANNY WILLIAMS HES LIEUTENANT IN 16 TRUCK KIND OF HOOKED UP THERE WERE GUYS COMING IN ALL THE TIME IT WAS VERY HARD CONTROLLING WHAT WAS HAPPENING THERE WERE ABOUT 30 OR 50 FIREMEN STRETCHED FROM THE RIVER TO WEST STREET AND THEYRE TRYING TO STRETCH THESE TWO LINES
THEY WOULD GET SNAGGED ON SOMETHING AND WE WOULD HAVE TO SAY STOP WEVE GOT TO BACK UP 10 FEET SO WE SPACED OURSELVES HE
WENT CLOSER TO WEST STREET WENT CLOSER TO THE RIVER WE KIND OF STAYED IN TOUCH WITH EACH
OTHER TO TRY TO GET THIS THING GOING TO TRY TO STRETCH THESE TWO LINES
THEN THERE WAS CHIEF THAT SHOWED UP

CONLON 19
DOWN AT THE FIRE BOAT HE WAS HELPFUL HE WAS
TRYING TO ORGANIZE THINGS DOWN THERE WE TOLD HIM WHAT WAS HAPPENING
AFTER PROBABLY AN HOUR AND HALF TO
TWO HOURS WE HAD RIG AT ALBANY AND SOUTH END WE HAD RIG AT WEST AND THEN ANOTHER SUPPLYING
STUFF TOWARDS THE WORLD TRADE CENTER THE RIG ON
WEST STREET WAS SUPPLYING TOWER LADDER IT WAS SUPPLYING LINES THAT WERE HEADING TOWARDS THE
WORLD TRADE CENTER
ONCE THAT WAS ALL IN PLACE IM
THINKING IT WAS COUPLE HOURS THAT HAD GONE BY SAID TO THE GUYS YOUVE GOT TO TAKE BLOW
HAD TO TAKE BLOW WAS READY TO PASS OUT PEOPLE WERE WALKING AROUND WITH JUGS OF WATER
SO WE SAT DOWN BY THE RIVER FOR ABOUT TEN MINUTES AND DRANK SOME WATER TOOK OUR GEAR OFF
WE PUT OUR GEAR BACK ON WE WENT ON SOUTH END AVENUE BASICALLY UP TO THE SITE
GUESS WE WENT THROUGH TWO WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER OUT WINDOW AND ONTO THE PILE TOLD THE GUYS TO WAIT OUTSIDE THEY WERE WAITING OUT IN THE COURTYARD OUT THERE WENT OUT AND TOOK LOOK AROUND

CONLON 20
THERE WERE COMPANIES OPERATING ON FIRES AND THIS AND THAT SAW RIG DOWN BELOW
DIDNT KNOW WHAT IT WAS IT WAS LIKE TWO STORIES
BELOW ME WENT DOWN AND STUFF CAME BACK UP
SAW NIGRO COME TRUCK FROM YUEENS HE WAS
PILE HE LOOKED THE WAY
CHIEF THERES RIG DOWN HERE HE SAID
RETURN TO THE TRUCK HE SAID ALL RIGHT
GUYS THATS THE FIRST PLACE YOU CAN LOOK CHECK THIS RIG DOWN HERE
WENT BACK THERE WAS MANIFOLD SET
UP IN WINDOW OR SOMETHING COMING ONTO THE PILE FIGURED MAYBE WE COULD GET COUPLE LENGTHS OF
HOSE AND HOOK UP TO THAT MANIFOLD AND OPERATE THERE WERE SOME FIRES BURNING SEVEN WORLD TRADE CENTER WAS STILL JUST SMOKE COMING OUT AT THAT TIME THERE WASNT FIRE
GO BACK TO TRY TO FIND SOME HOSE FRESH COMPANIES WERE COMING IN WITH LINES AND STUFF WHEN GOT BACK IT DAWNED ON ME THAT
THESE QUYS ARE WONDERINQ HOW THE OTHER QUYS ARE DIDNT KNOW IF THE AMBULANCE MADE IT SO WAS
SEARCHED UNDER IT AND
OUT WITH THINK 126 COMING OUT ONTO THE FELT SAID TO HIM

CONLON 21
KIND OF CONCERNED ABOUT THAT
SO SAID TO THE GUYS LETS TRY TO
FIND OUT HOW DAN SUHR IS DOING THE CHAUFFEUR SAID TO ME CAN WE FIND OUT HOW DAN SUHR IS DOING SAID YES WAS WORRIED ABOUT THE AMBULANCE WAS WORRIED ABOUT ALL OF THEM
SO WE FOUND SOMEBODY WITH CELL PHONE FOUND SOMEBODY THE TWO FIREMEN FOUND
SOMEBODY CALLED THE HOSPITAL COULDNT
REALLY GET THROUGH THEY WERE MUCH WISER THEY CALLED THE FIREHOUSE AND THEY FOUND OUT THAT DAN
SUHR HAD DIED AND THAT THE OTHER TWO GUYS WERE IN THE FIREHOUSE AND THAT THEY WERE SAFE
SO THE CHAUFFEUR COMES BACK DONT KNOW HOW LONG HE KNEW DAN FOR
WE START HEADING BACK TOLD HIM GO BACK TO THE RIG AND ILL MEET YOU THERE SO
THEY WALK DOWN TO THE RIVER THEYRE QOINQ BACK TO THE RIG FIND THE CHIEF ON DONT KNOW

WHERE GUESS ON LIBERTY THE 11TH DIVISION ACTUALLY NAME
FIND THE CHIEF OF DONT KNOW HIS
CONLON
22
AFTERWARDS REALIZED
THAT WAS TO EVEN ASK WE LOST 343 GUYS FELT
BAD EVEN ASKING AFTER HE SAID NO WAS THINKING OF COURSE WE CANT LEAVE
HEAD BACK NOW WHEN GET BACK TO SOUTH END AND ALBANY THERES 216 ENGINE HOOKED
SOMEHOW SOMEONE MOVED IT WERE RIGHT IN
THE MIDDLE OF THE RELAY NOW THERES THE CHAUFFEUR OPERATING THE PUMPS SAID TED WE CANT LEAVE YET HE SAID YEAH YOU KNOW DONT WANT TO LEAVE ANYWAY WE ALL HAD THE SAME KIND OF FEELING
THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH THEN HE OPERATED PUMPS WANTED TO SEE WHO WE WERE SUPPLYING
WE WERE ON ALBANY AND SOUTH END WALKED ACROSS WEST STREET THERE WAS ANOTHER RIG ON WEST NO
UP
HOW RIDICULOUS

CONLON 23
OUR LINE WENT STRAIGHT TO 207 ENGINE WHICH WAS ON ALBANY BETWEEN WEST AND WASHINGTON STREET
THEY WERE SUPPLYING ONE OF THE
STANDPIPES ON 90 WEST STREET AND THEY WERE SUPPLYING HAND LINE THAT WENT THEY SAID
COUPLE BLOCKS AWAY THERE WAS FIRE IN THE
BASEMENT OF BUILDING THE GUYS WERE OPERATING THAT
THATS WHAT THE CHAUFFEUR OF 207 TOLD ME HE SAID WERE SUPPLYING 90 WEST AND WERE
SUPPLYING THE HAND LINE ACTUALLY WE WERE SUPPLYING TWO HAND LINES ONE THAT WENT THROUGH
BASEMENT AND ONE THAT WENT NORTH TOWARD TWO WORLD
TRADE CENTER SAID ALL
SO GO BACK NOW KNOW WHO WE RE
SUPPLYING THE CHAUFFEUR SAID WERE DOWN TO HALF TANK THERE WERE LIKE THREE OR FOUR RIGS AROUND HIM THERE WAS ANOTHER RIG RIGHT NEXT TO US IN THE RELAY AND FIGURED ALL THE RIGS ARE OPERATING SINCE THIS THING STARTED AND THEYRE GOING TO START TO RUN OUT OF FUEL
SO TRIED TO CALL THE COMMAND POST TO LET THEM KNOW WE NEED FUEL CANT QET THROUQH SO WALKED BACK TO LIBERTY HOOKED UP WITH
RIGHT

GETTING IT ANYTHING
THEY DIDNT HAVE HAND PUMP OR
CONLON 24
CHIEF ASKED HIM HOW WE COULD GET SOME FUEL
HE SAID WERE HAVING TROUBLE GETTING FUEL HE SAID SOMETIMES FIRE BOATS HAVE IT
SO WALKED BACK SENT THE PROBY DOWN HE WENT DOWN TO THE FIRE BOAT HE TOLD THEM WE NEEDED FUEL ABOUT HALF HOUR LATER THEY SHOWED UP WITH PICKUP TRUCK WITH 55 GALLON DRUM OF DIESEL BUT THEY HAD NO WAY OF
SO WE FOUND HOSE AND WE STARTED TO SIPHON WE SUPPLIED 216 AND ALL THE OTHER ENGINES THERE WAS ANOTHER ENGINE FORGET WHO IT WAS OPERATING RIGHT NEXT TO US SO WEVE GOT FUEL
IN THE MEANTIME CHIEF FROM JERSEY COMES UP TO ME WITH PIECE OF PAPER WITH THREE NAMES ON IT AND HE SAID THESE ARE THREE FIREMEN THEYRE IN HOSPITAL IN NEW JERSEY
IN CASE YOU HAVE THEM AT LEAST YOU KNOW
WHATEVER WALKED BACK CHIEF MET
DONT REMEMBER WHO THEY WERE SO TO LIBERTY AND GAVE THAT TO
OVER THERE HE SAID ALL RIQHT
THANKS ILL TAKE CARE OF IT

CONLON 25
DO YOU REMEMBER THE CHIEFS NAME WISH COULD IM SORRY DIDNT
KNOW HIS NAME DIDNT KNOW HIM MET COUPLE CHIEFS THAT KNEW MET JACK ROONEY HE ASKED ME WHAT DID YOU DO TOLD HIM WHEN MENTIONED CHIEF BARBARA HE ASKED ME WHERE DID YOU SEE HIM LAST AND TOLD HIM
THAT WAS MY NEXT QUESTION WHERE DID YOU LAST SEE CHIEF BARBARA
LAST SAW HIM AT THE COMMAND POST WHERE HE SET THE COMMAND POST UP IT WAS JUST
NORTH OF ALBANY THERES BUILDING THERE ONE FINANCIAL CENTER IT WAS RIGHT AT THE CORNER OF
THAT BUILDING HIS COMMAND POST AND IT WAS ON THE WEST SIDE OF WEST STREET THIS IS WEST STREET HERE NOT REALLY THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY
THE COMMAND POST WAS JUST NORTH OF THE CORNER OF ONE FINANCIAL CENTER WHEN WALKED UP TO HIM THERE WAS KIND OF NATURAL PLACE TO HAVE COMMAND POST THERE WAS CUTOUT DECORATIVE CONCRETE OR SOMETHING RIGHT THERE
THIS WAS AN AREA THAT DIDNT HAVE IT SO HE WAS STANDINQ THERE
THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN JUST PRIOR TO THE

CONLON 26
COLLAPSE THEN
WELL WHEN WE REPORTED IN TO HIM HE
WAS THERE WHEN CALLED FOR AN AMBULANCE IM ASSUMING HE WAS THERE BUT DIDNT SEE HIM THERE BUT WHEN IT COLLAPSED WE WERE CLOSER TO THE BUILDING THAN THAT LOCATION SO DONT THINK HE WAS THERE
THOUGHT ABOUT IT LOT AFTERWARDS HE MUST HAVE WALKED TOWARDS THE LOBBY COMMAND
POST THATS ALL CAN ASSUME YOU KNOW WHAT MEAN LIKE WERE WALKING INTO THE LOBBY COMMAND POST HE MUST HAVE BEEN BEHIND US WALKING IN OR SOMETHING
AFTER WE PUT DAN IN THE AMBULANCE AND
THE AMBULANCE TOOK OFF BASICALLY THE BUILDING COLLAPSED WE WERE AT THE CORNER RIGHT AT 90 WEST STREET THAT COMMAND POST IS ACROSS THE
HIGHWAY AND LITTLE FURTHER SOUTH THAN WHERE WE WERE
COULDNT HAVE BEEN THERE IF HE WAS THERE WOULD HAVE FOUND HIM BECAUSE THERE WASNT WHOLE LOT OF DEBRIS THERE KNOW FROM
THAT DOESNT MEAN THAT HE DIDNT
GET HE HASNT BEEN FOUND THOUGH GUESS SO HE
THEY

THINK OF IT AL
AL YEAH SANTURO SANTURO NO NO
ANYWAY HEARD HIM EITHER IN HIS CAR OR UNDER HIS
HE WAS TRAPPED CAR WHEN WAS
CONLON 27
AFTERWARDS THERE WAS SOME STEEL
THATS WHERE REPORTED IN TO HIM
CHIEF REPORTED IN TO HIM AT HIS COMMAND POST
WHICH WAS ON THE WEST SIDE OF WEST STREET NORTH OF THE CORNER OF ONE WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER THATS THE LAST PLACE THAT SAW HIM
CAN YOU THINK OF ANY OTHER RADIO TRANSMISSIONS THAT YOU HEARD THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL
YEAH WELL HEARD THE WHOLE TRANSMISSION WITH THE MARINE COMPANY CHIEF
WHATS HIS NAME THAT WAS TRAPPED IM DRAWING BLANK ON HIS NAME SANTOS OR SOMETHING ILL
ON THE RIG AT ONE POINT AND WERE LOOKING FOR WATER WE TALK ABOUT HOW DUMB YOU ARE AT
SOMETIMES HEARD TRANSMISSION QIVEN
AL FUENTES
MAYDAY
JUST

GIVEN FIREMAN
MAYDAY THINK BY FIREMAN IT HAD TO BE
CONLON
28
AL FUENTES AL FUENTES HEARD THE TRANSMISSION OF
OVER THE DEPARTMENT RADIO THOUGH THE FIRST THING THOUGHT OF YOU DONT GIVE MAYDAYS OVER THE DEPARTMENT RADIO YOU GIVE ONLY URGENTS YOU KNOW AFTERWARDS REALIZED FOR CHRISTS SAKE IF HES GIVING MAYDAY HES TRAPPED SOMEWHERE
DIDNT KNOW THE BUILDINGS UNTIL ABOUT IN THE AFTERNOON THAT
COLLAPSED THEY CAME COLLAPSE
DOWN COMPLETELY KNEW THERE WAS
UNTIL WE WERE SUPPLYING WATER AND GOT THERE AND
LOOKED AND THE DUST HAD SETTLED
COULDNT BELIEVE THEY BOTH CAME DOWN COMPLETELY
AS FAR AS OTHER GUYS AND OTHER TRANSMISSIONS HEARD JUST WHOLE SERIES OF TRANSMISSIONS WITH RESCUE AND CAPTAIN TISO WHO WAS TRYING TO GET TO GUYS HE GOT IN LITTLE
BIT OF TROUBLE FOR WHILE
HIM AND SOME OTHER MEMBERS APPARENTLY THEY WERE UP ON THE PILE THEY WERE IN BAD SPOT HE STAYED CALM THROUQH THE WHOLE THINQ
IT WAS AMAZING BUT THEY HAD TO BACKTRACK THEIR
ENOUGH

CONLON 29
WAY OUT AND THERE WAS FIRE LIGHTING UP BEHIND THEM THEY NEEDED LINE
AFTER
WAS BEFORE THE SECOND COLLAPSE OR
NO NO THAT WAS AFTER
AFTERWARDS
YEAH
AND TRUCK GETTING OUT THEY WERE
TRAPPED FOR LONG TIME AND THEY FINALLY GOT OUT TRUCK YOU OUT YEAH WERE OUT
WERE OUT IN THE STREET
AFTER THE FIRST COLLAPSE AS FAR AS
RADIO TRANSMISSIONS REALLY DONT REMEMBER HEARING ANY RADIO TRANSMISSIONS WOULD SWEAR THAT THERE WERENT ANY BUT KNOW THERE WERE BECAUSE TALKED TO OTHER PEOPLE THAT SAID THERE WERE
HOW ABOUT DO YOU RECALL ANY RADIO TRANSMISSIONS BEFORE THE COLLAPSE
NOT REALLY OTHER THAN NO WE WERENT THERE THAT LONG BEFORE THE COLLAPSE WE
REPORTED IN AND WE WERE SENT IN THEN IM
QIVINQ MAYDAY AND THEY COLLAPSED THATS THE
WAY IT SEEMED

CONLON 30
YOU MENTIONED 217
YEAH
YOU SAID THEY WERE WITH YOU BUT WAS
THE WHOLE COMPANY WITH YOU
WHEN GOT TO THE COMMAND POST THE
COMMAND POST WAS TWO ENGINE COMPANIES AND CHIEF
BARBARA
ALTHOUGH AIDE
THAT WAS IT AND GUESS HIS AIDE
DONT REALLY REMEMBER EVEN SEEING HIS KIND OF JUST REMEMBER HIM HAD NEVER
MET HIM BEFORE
WHEN WE GOT THERE 217 ENGINE AND 205
ENGINE WERE THERE AND THEY WERE JUST STANDING FAST NOW WE GET THERE REPORTED IN THE TENTH
DUE THE FIFTH ALARM DONT KNOW WHAT WE ARE HE SAID FINE
THEN WHEN HE SENT US IN TO THE LOBBY COMMAND POST HE SENT ALL THREE COMPANIES ALL THREE ENGINES ALL THREE OF US WERE GOING TO GO IN WE ALL STARTED WALKING WAS WALKING IN FRONT OF THE OTHER TWO COMPANIES SO DONT KNOW EXACTLY WHERE THEY WERE BUT KNOW THEY WERE WITH US BECAUSE WE ALL PICKED UP OUR GEAR THEY WERE PICKINQ UP THEIR QEAR BUTTONINQ UP THEIR COATS

205 ENGINE ALL OF THEM STOPPED TO HELP US SINCE THEN
BELIEVE
TALKED TO GUY
CONLON
31
OVER THERE AND THEY SAID THEY ALL STOPPED TO HELP US 217 THINK TWO GUYS STOPPED TO HELP US AS
FAR AS UNDERSTAND IT MORE ABOUT WHO IT WAS
STOPPED TO HELP US BUT TO HELP US
IT WASNT LIKE COUNT AT THAT MOMENT
ID LIKE TO FIND OUT DONT EVEN KNOW WHO
THINK TWO GUYS STOPPED
WAS TAKING HEAD JUST KNEW GUYS STOPPED TO HELP US KNOW TWO GUYS CAME RUNNING ALONG
WITH LONG BOARD IM ASSUMING THEY RAN OUT TO WEST STREET TO GET IT DONT KNOW IF THEY RAN OUT TO THEIR RIG OR WHERE THEY GOT IT BUT THEY
HAD THE PRESENCE OF MIND TO GET LONG BOARD AND THATS WHAT THEY DID THINK THEY WERE FROM
217 THINK THEY WERE THE TWO GUYS
DONT KNOW WHERE 205 WENT ONCE WE WERE UNDER THE SCAFFOLDING AND ONCE THE LONG BOARD CAME AND WE WERE WHEELING HIM DOWN THE
BLOCK IT WAS ME AND MY GUYS BASICALLY ONCE WE GOT HIM IN THE AMBULANCE THERE WERE NO OTHER FIREMEN AROUND BUT US
THE AMBULANCE TAKES OFF AND

CONLON 32
DR KELLY DISAPPEARED DONT KNOW WHERE SHE WENT DURING THE DAY HEARD THAT SHE DIDNT MAKE IT IM DYING BECAUSE SAID SHIT WAS JUST WITH HER AND SAW HER
OTHER THAN DANNY WILLIAMS OF 16 TRUCK BELIEVE EITHER 284 OR 286 ENGINE WAS RUNNING
ALONG WITH US AND THAT WAS AFTER BOTH COLLAPSES SO BEFORE BOTH COLLAPSES JUST SAW 205 AND 217 ENGINE AND REALLY DIDNT HEAR TOO MANY TRANSMISSIONS
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU CAN
THINK OF THAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO ADD TO THIS OR
ANYTHING THAT MIGHT BE HELPFUL TO US
OTHER THAN ON OUR SIDE OF IT ON THE
SOUTH SIDE THERE WERE LOT OF PEOPLE THERE HEARING THE SAME THING KNOW VISCONTI AND FELLINI THEY REALLY TOOK OVER ON THAT SIDE THE TWO CHIEFS TWO DEPUTIES THERE WAS NO UNIT DESIGNATIONS JUST CHIEF VISCONTI CHIEF
FELLINI WHAT DO YOU NEED NEED TWO ENGINES OR WHATEVER THEY WERE GOING BACK AND FORTH THERE WAS NO RADIO TRAFFIC FOR WHILE
AS FAR AS THE REST OF THE DAY WE JUST SPENT IT RUNNING UP AND DOWN AND CHECKING HOSES

THEN ONCE GOT RELIEVED GOT RELIEVED ABOUT 530 WENT OUT ON THE PILE FOR
THERE WHILE
CONLON
33
LOOKING AROUND WOUND UP EVENTUALLY MAKING MY
WAY HOME NEXT DAY
15Z5 THEN
WAS THERE AND WENT BACK TO WORK THE
CHIEF MCGRATH ALL RIGHT THE HOUR IS THIS WILL CONCLUDE THE INTERVIEW
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR HELP AND ALL YOUR SUPPORT FOR THIS THANK YOU VERY MUCH
CAPTAIN CONLON OKAY

FILE NO 9110488
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER TIMOTHY BURKE
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 22 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

BURKE
BATTALION CHIEF MCGRATH TODAY IS TUESDAY JANUARY 22 2002 THE TIME IS 1611 HOURS THIS
IS BATTALION CHIEF JAMES MCGRATH OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK IM
CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH TIMOTHY BURKE OF ENGINE 202 THIS INTERVIEW IS REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001 AND IS TAKING PLACE IN THE QUARTERS OF ENGINE 202 IN BROOKLYN
TIMMY PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND JUST RECOUNT WHAT HAPPENED ON SEPTEMBER 11 TO THE BEST OF
YOUR RECOLLECTION
MY NAME IS TIMOTHY JAMES BURKE FROM ENGINE
202 WAS WORKING SEPTEMBER 11 GOT IN AT OCLOCK IN THE MORNING THE FIRST PLANE HAD HIT
LITTLE LATER WE WATCHED IT FROM THE ROOF OF THE BUILDING THEN THEY CALLED US TO STAGING AREA AROUND
QUARTER TO NINE THINK WHICH WOULD BE THE BROOKLYN BATTERY TUNNEL FROM THE BROOKLYN BATTERY TUNNEL STAGING AREA WE WATCHED THE SECOND PLANE COME IN
AS SOON AS THE SECOND PLANE CAME IN THEY
SENT US INTO THE TUNNEL WE SPENT FEW MINUTES IN THE TUNNEL SEEMED LIKE LOT OF TRAFFIC IN THE TUNNEL
IT WAS RUMORED THAT THEY WERE BLOWING UP THE TUNNEL THEN WE GOT THROUGH WE DROVE OVER WHAT FELT LIKE

BURKE
GRAVEL BECAUSE THERE WAS SO MUCH GLASS AND DEBRIS
AROUND SAW PLANE TIRE IN AN ALLEY BODY PARTS AND PEOPLE ALL OVER THE PLACE WE PULLED UP AS SOON AS WE
GOT UP IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING THINK WE WERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE VISTA HOTEL THEY MADE STATEMENT THAT
WE SHOULD KEEP MOVING FORWARD SO OUR RIGS WE GOT BACK ON THE RIGS THEN WE MOVED TO POSITION RIGHT IN
FRONT OF LOOKS LIKE THE MERRILL LYNCH BUILDING WHICH IS WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER
FROM THERE WE PROCEEDED TO THAT WOULD BE THE STAGING AREA WHICH IS THE TWO GARAGE TUNNELS THEIR STAGING AREA WAS RIGHT AT THE THROAT OF THE GARAGE TUNNELS OUR OFFICER STAYED WITH THE COMMAND POST AND THE ENGINE AND TRUCK WENT INTO ONE OF THE GARAGES WHERE ALL THE FIREFIGHTERS WERE STARTING TO MEET UP
AS SOON AS THAT HAPPENED THE CHIEF RAN OVER STARTED SCREAMING THAT THE ENGINE SHOULD BE ON ONE
SIDE THE TRUCK SHOULD BE ON ANOTHER THATS THE LAST
SAW OF 101 THATS THE LAST WE SAW FROM 101 THEN THEY WERE SPLIT FROM US THERE WAS JUST ALL ENGINES ON THAT SIDE GUY FROM 211 HAD CELL PHONE AND WE WERE ALL TRYING TO CALL OUR FAMILIES AT THIS POINT THIS WAS FEW MINUTES INTO THE BOX FEW MINUTES INTO US BEING THERE WOULD SAY ABOUT 10 MINUTES

BURKE
IT SEEMED PRETTY BAD THAT EVERYBODY WAS WILLING TO GET ON THE PHONE AND TRY TO CALL THEIR WIVES
TO SAY GOOD BYE OR SAY WHATEVER JUST THE FACES OF PEOPLE YOU KIND OF KNEW THAT SOME OF US WERE GOING TO
GET HURT BECAUSE IT WAS JUST TOO TOO TOO MUCH GOING ON HAD RADIO AND WAS THE NOZZLE MAN HAD
RADIO THERE WAS CALLING WATER THEY HAD NO WATER ENGINE 10 IM NOT SURE
FOR WATER THEY HAD NO
THOUGHT IT WAS COMING FROM THEN THERE WAS CALL OUT
THAT ONE ENGINE WAS ON THE 19 FLOOR AND THAT IF THEY EXPECT THEM TO GET TO 34 ITS GOING TO BE AT LEAST AN
HOUR FORGET THE NUMBER OF THAT ENGINE
THERE WAS LOT OF CHATTER THERE WAS
CHATTER THAT FIREMAN WAS HIT BY JUMPER TO KEEP YOUR HEADS UP TO KEEP AN EYE OUT ON WHAT WAS GOING
ON WE LEARNED THAT WAS DANNY SUHR AT ONE POINT AT THE BEGINNING OF US GETTING THERE AT ONE POINT WE GOT OFF THE RIG WE GOT ALL OUR GEAR AND WE NEEDED SOMETHING ELSE OFF THE RIG SO BOBBY NORRIS AND RAN TO THE RIG AND LOOKED AT HIM AND WASNT GOING TO GO UNLESS HE WENT AND HE WASNT GOING TO GO UNLESS WENT BECAUSE IT LOOKED LITTLE HAIRY NOT THAT WE WOULDNT GO IT WAS JUST WE WANTED TO STAY WITH EACH OTHER
MAKE SURE EVERYTHING WAS OKAY WITH EACH OTHER BECAUSE

BURKE
THERE WAS LOT OF STUFF COMING DOWN
THATS WHEN SAW THE GUY FROM RESCUE
ANGINELLI THE OLDER GUY AND WASNT SURE WHAT HE WANTED HE LOOKED LITTLE OLD AND WAS WONDERING
WHAT HE WAS DOING HE WANTED AN EXTRA SCOTT PACK IF WE HAD ONE ON OUR RIG WE SEARCHED THE RIG FOR SCOTT
THEN FOUND OUT THAT HE IS NOT WITH US
ANYMORE REMEMBERED JUST SPEAKING TO HIM
THEN WE FADED BACK TO THE GARAGE AND THEY
STARTED SENDING COMPANIES IN IT WAS LIKE THEY WERENT GRABBING OFFICERS AT THIS POINT AND SAYING GET YOUR COMPANY TOGETHER THEY WERE JUST GRABBING FULL SETS OF MEN WE WERENT FULL SET OF MEN WE WERE JUST ME AND BOBBY STANDING AT THE LINE OUR CHAUFFEUR WAS SITTING WITH OUR DETAIL FROM 20 PETE HIS WIFE WAS IN THE BUILDING
WHEN THE PLANE HIT HE CALLED HIS WIFE TO SAY WHEN THE PLANE HIT TOWER ONE HE CALLED HIS WIFE TO SAY GET OUT OF TOWER TWO WHEN WE GOT TO THE BOX HE WAS SITTING ON THE SIDE JUST WORRYING ABOUT HIS WIFE HE WAS READY TO GO BUT HE WASNT SITTING WITH US SO WHEN THEY STARTED TAKING COMPANIES WITHOUT OFFICERS THEY STARTED GRABBING FULL GROUPS OF GUYS THEY WERE JUST GRABBING GUYS ON EITHER SIDE OF US
PACK

BURKE
THEN THERE WERE STILL HUNCH OF GUYS THERE
STILL GUYS IN THE STREETS STILL EVERYTHING GOING ON ANOTHER CHIEF CAME OVER AND SAID YOU ARE GOING TO BE THERE FOR WHILE START LOOSENING UP BECAUSE THERE
WAS ALREADY RADIO CONTACT THAT GUYS WERE FALLING IN THE STAIRS WITH HEART ATTACKS AND STUFF THINGS LIKE
THAT GUYS WERE GOING DOWN GUYS WEREN MAKING THE STAIRS
DO YOU KNOW ANY SPECIFICS ANY COMPANIES NO IT WAS JUST DONT KNOW IF IT WAS
RADIO OR RUMOR BUT WHEN THE CHIEF CAME OVER HE SAID EVERYBODY YOU ARE GOING TO BE HERE WHILE LOOSEN
UP LOOSEN UP
DO YOU KNOW WHO THE CHIEF WAS
NO DONT REMEMBER THERE WAS METCALF HE WAS
SCHOOL HE WAS LIEUTENANT IN
REMEMBER ONE GUY REMEMBER HIM FROM PROBY
PROBY SCHOOL

BURKE
THE OTHER CHIEF RAN OVER AND HE SEEMED LIKE CHIEF FOR LITTLE WHILE HE SEEMED LIKED LITTLE
OLDER HE SAYS EVERYBODY CALM DOWN YOU ARE GOING TO
BE HERE WHILE TAKE YOUR GEAR OFF STAY COOL YOU DONT WANT TO HEAT UP NOW SOME OF THE GUYS STARTED TAKING THEIR MASKS OFF THE JACKETS OFF REMEMBER WE MADE NICE PILE OF STUFF REMEMBER WHERE OUR PILE WAS THEN WE WERE SITTING THERE AND WAITING TO GET CALLED IN THEN THE RADIOS ARE GOING CALLING FOR
WATER CALLING FOR THIS CALLING FOR THAT YOU KNOW DIFFERENT THINGS GOING ON ON THE RADIO THAT RIGHT NOW ITS HARD FOR ME TO REMEMBER EXACTLY ALL THE CHATTER BUT IT WAS VERY SEEMED CHAOTIC BUT NOT OUT OF CONTROL YOU KNOW
WHEN WE WERE STANDING THERE AND LIKE SAID PEOPLE YOU JUST SAW PEOPLE MOVING ALL PEOPLE MOVING
AND IF YOU LOOKED AT TOWER ONE YOU SAW JUMPERS YOU COULD HEAR THE SOUND OF JUMPERS WHEN YOU LOOKED AT TOWER TWO YOU SAW MORE FLAMES SO IM STANDING IN THE STREET YOU COULD LOOK FOR JUMPERS TO YOUR LEFT AND FLAMES TO YOUR RIGHT BECAUSE TOWER TWO WAS MORE INVOLVED
AT THAT POINT WAS GOING WHERE THE HELL ARE

BURKE
THE CHOPPERS THATS MY MENTALITY GOING WHERE THE HELL ARE THE JETS WHERE THE HELL ARE THE CHOPPERS
AM THINKING THERE WAS GOING TO BE ANOTHER PLANE AND EVERY TIME WE HEARD NOISE PEOPLE THOUGHT IT WAS ANOTHER
PLANE COMING IN AND SO EVERYONE WOULD LIKE FLINCH THEN THE BUILDING POPPED LOWER THAN THE
FIRE WHICH LEARNED WAS GUESS THE AVIATION FUEL FELL INTO THE PIT AND WHATEVER FLOOR IT FELL ON HEATED
UP REALLY BAD AND THATS WHY IT POPPED AT THAT FLOOR THATS THE RUMOR HEARD BUT IT SEEMED LIKE WAS
GOING OH MY GOD THERE IS SECONDARY DEVICE BECAUSE THE WAY THE BUILDING POPPED THOUGHT IT WAS AN EXPLOSION
WHEN THAT HAPPENED THEY ALL STARTED FADING INTO THE GARAGE MASSES OF PEOPLE IM THINKING THIS
BUILDING IS COMING DOWN WE ARE GOING TO BE COVERED BY TWO BUILDINGS DIDNT KNOW IF IT WAS GOOD IDEA TO RUN FOR THE GARAGE AT THAT TIME WAS REALLY SAYING IM GOING TO BE KILLED BY TWO BUILDINGS THEY ARE NOT GOING TO FIND ME UNTIL THEY UNCOVER ONE BUILDING SO WITH THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE RUSHING ME WE RAN THROUGH
THE GARAGE WE KEPT RUNNING THROUGH THE ONLY THING WE COULD THINK ABOUT WAS TRYING TO GET AS FAR INTO THE BUILDING AS POSSIBLE WHICH WAS WEIRD JUST WANTED

BURKE
TO GET DEEPER AND DEEPER FURTHER AND FURTHER AWAY
WHICH WAS MY MENTALITY
THE GUYS WERE FOLLOWING US ME AND JOE WE
ALL RAN UP TILL WE GOT TO LIKE WHAT LOOKED LIKE WORKMANS SHANTY BECAUSE IT WAS PLYWOOD LOCKED UP DOOR JUST TEMPORARY DOOR USUALLY CONSTRUCTION WORKERS KEEP THEIR TOOLS IN THERE ITS SOMETHING KNOW BECAUSE USED TO WORK IN THE CONSTRUCTION FIELD IT WOULD BE LIKE TOOL LOCK OR SOMETHING JUST SOMETHING TEMPORARY MADE REMEMBER TRYING TO BREAK INTO THERE JUST TO GET THAT MUCH FURTHER IN
ALL OF SUDDEN THE NOISES STOPPED THE SOUND
OF THE BUILDING FALLING STOPPED WE ALL TURNED AROUND AND IT WAS DARK NOW WE REALLY COULDNT SEE WE GOT
BACK TO WHERE WE WENT BACK TO THE GARAGE AS FAR IN IT AS WE WERE WE WERE ALL FULL OF THE CLOUD THE CLOUD WAS IN THERE ALL EATING THE CLOUD WHATEVER IT
WAS LIKE VERY THICK DIMENSIONAL OBJECT IT
SAND STORM WE ONLY HAD BUNKER PANTS ON AT THIS TIME
WAS WITH BOBBY DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO ANYBODY ELSE BUT IT WAS VERY SILENT AFTER THE
BUILDING FELL THEN ALL THE MAYDAYS STARTED HAPPENING
EVERYTHING IT WAS LIKE
KEEP SAYING IT WAS LIKE WASNT SMOKE IT WAS LIKE

BURKE
THE GUYS WERE SCREAMING YOU ONIY TUNE INTO CERTAIN NUMBERS LIKE HEARD 131 LOOKING FOR THEIR IRONS
MAN JUST KEPT HEARING THAT BACK AND FORTH BOBBY NORRIS AND STAYED TOGETHER THE WHOLE TIME WE WERE
LIKE IF WAS GOING ANYWHERE IT WAS WITH HIM AND HE
WAS DOING THE SAME THING KEPT ON SAYING TO MYSELF WHERE IS 101 BECAUSE THATS MY COMPANY SO WHERE
101
KEPT NOT HEARING THEM AND KNEW IT WAS
DIFFERENT GROUP OF GUYS THAT KEPT ON SAYING THEY SCREWED UP SOMETHING HAPPENED THEY SCREWED UP
EITHER THEY ARE ALL TOGETHER OR THEY ARE ALL SCREWED UP KEPT HEARING 131 LOOKING FOR THE IRONS MAN THE IRONS MAN ANSWERING BACK
THINK HIS GUYS KNOW
THINK IT WAS 279
HEARD SEAN ALBERT FROM 279 CALL FOR HEARD SEAN CALL FOR HIS COMPANY
DONT KNOW DONT REMEMBER
EXACTLY JUST REMEMBER 131 BECAUSE 131 INAUDIBLE COME ON SPEAK WE DIDNT HEAR ANYTHING MADE CHOICE WITH BOBBY TO GO GET OUR GEAR WE FELT THAT IF WE WERE GOING TO BE HERE FOR LONG WHILE WANT MY HELMET MY JACKET IF CAN GET MY CYLINDER
ACTUALLY HAD SIZE UP OF THE GARAGE BECAUSE WHEN WE FIRST GOT THERE WE LOOKED AROUND THE GARAGE SO KNEW
10

BURKE
HOW FAR IT WAS FROM THIS ONE STAIRWELL AND WHEN WE FOUND THE STAIRWELL KNEW OUR GEAR WAS 15 20 FEET UP AND THAT WOULD BE 10 FEET FROM THE ENTRY OF THE GARAGE
SO WENT FOR IT WENT FOR MY GEAR BOBBY CAME WITH ME WE GRABBED OUR GEAR WE GRABBED EACH CYLINDER SCOTT PACKS AND GRABBED AN EXTRA SCOTT PACK WE BOTH WE BOTH STARTED FALLING BACK SOMEBODY HAD RAN SEARCH GROUP TO BACK STAIRWELL WHICH WAS PRETTY GOOD IDEA FROM THE STAIRWELL KNEW IT WOULD HAVE PUT US RIGHT INTO THE ATRIUM SO WE DIDNT KNOW
IF THAT WAS GOOD IDEA TO GO IN THERE THE ATRIUM
BEING THAT CAFETERIA IN BETWEEN THE BUILDINGS ITS
NOT REALLY CAFETERIA ITS LIKE TABLE AREA WHERE YOU CAN SIT DOWN AND HAVE COFFEE WHATEVER PART OF MALL YOU WOULD SAY BECAUSE THE BOTTOM LEVEL WAS
MALL
THE STAIRWELL KNEW WOULD LEAD US RIGHT INTO THAT AREA SO WE DIDNT THINK THAT WAS GOOD IDEA TO TAKE PLUS WE DIDNT HAVE OUR OFFICER THE CHAUFFEUR OR THE BACK UP MAN AND IT WAS JUST ME AND THE CONTROL MAN TOGETHER THEN LIEUTENANT CALKINS WAS LOOKING FOR US WE WERE CALLING BACK TO HIM THINK HE WAS ALREADY OUTSIDE ON THE OUTSIDE WHERE THE MORANS BAR SIDE
EXACTLY
11

BURKE
IS WAS RIGHT THERE WHICH IS THE PIER EVERYTHING
IS WHATCHAMACALLIT LANDMARKS MORANS BAR WAS THE LANDMARK HE WAS ALREADY OUT THERE BUT BOBBY AND
WERE STILL INSIDE WE ACTUALLY THOUGHT OF GOING BACK OUT THE WAY WE CAME IN BUT THERE WAS NO VISIBILITY AND WHEN WE GOT UP FOR OUR GEAR THE ALUMINUM FACADE WAS LAYING ACROSS THE STUFF THOUGHT IT WAS DUCT WORK BECAUSE WE HAD NO VISIBILITY AND IT FELT LIKE DUCT WORK IM GOING HOLY GEEZ THE BUILDING CAME APART
THAT MUCH THERE IS PIECES OF DUCT WORK ALL OVER THE PLACE
IF THERE WAS VISIBILITY WE PROBABLY WOULD HAVE WENT OUT KNOWING THAT WE HAD AN EXIT OUT THE
FRONT BUT THERE WASNT VISIBILITY SO WE FADED BACK AGAIN THATS WHEN WE GOT IN TOUCH WITH CALKINS AND CALKINS WAS CALLING BACK AND FORTH TO US WE FINALLY HOOKED UP WE WENT OUTSIDE
WHERE DID YOU MEET THE LIEUTENANT IN THE
GARAGE
IN THE GARAGE BY THE SEARCH ROPE WHAT BOBBY AND DID WAS ONE OF US STAYED BY THE SEARCH ROPE THE OTHER GUY WOULD GO OUT 10 FEET AND COME BACK AND WE WOULD WORK OUR WAY DOWN LOOKING FOR THINGS LOOKING IF WE COULD GO ANY FURTHER FROM WHERE WE WERE
12

BURKE
THIS WAY WE HAD AN IDEA WHAT WAS GOING ON WE WORKED THE SEARCH ROPE DOWN TO WHERE KNEW OF STAIRWELL
BECAUSE AT LEAST IF WE HAD TO BAIL OUT KNEW OF ONE WE STAYED AT THAT POINT THATS WHERE CALKINS FOLLOWED US FOLLOWED THE SEARCH ROPE WE KEPT ON SAYING WE WERE ON THE ROPE WE WERE ON THE ROPE HE FOLLOWED THE ROPE DOWN AND FOUND US WE PROCEEDED OUTSIDE
WHEN WE HAD GOTTEN OUT WE WERE ON THE PIER SIDE AND THATS ANOTHER REASON WHY IT SAVED US BECAUSE
WE WERE ISOLATED FROM THE OTHER BUILDING WE WERE
HERE WE CAME OUT BACK HERE AND WE WERE HERE THE WINTER GARDEN WOULD BE THE ATRIUM SO SOMEWHERE AROUND HERE HAD FOUND STAIRWELL BUT WE DIDNT TAKE THAT ONE WE TOOK STAIRWELL THAT WAS OVER HERE WE
POPPED OUT OVER HERE THERE WERE JUST GUYS FALLING REMEMBER RUNNING WHEN THE BUILDING FIRST STARTED COMING DOWN REMEMBER RUNNING AND FOLLOWING GUYS FROM 204 BECAUSE ZIEGLER HAD CUT ON HIS HAND AND KEPT ON TELLING HIM WAS FOLLOWING HIS BLOOD TRAIL SO WE MADE LITTLE JOKE OUT OF IT BECAUSE HE WAS DOING
PRETTY GOOD
THATS BEFORE WE LOST ALL VISIBILITY THEN DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM KNEW 204 WAS IN
THERE WITH US BUT DIDNT KNOW WHERE 224 WAS
13

BURKE
DIDNT KNOW WHERE ANYBODY ELSE WAS JUST REMEMBER ZIEGLER FROM 204 BEFORE WE LOST ALL VISIBILITY WE
POPPED OUT OVER HERE WE ALL GOT TOGETHER THERE WAS
OF US THE WHOLE ENGINE COMPANY AND COMPLETE SETS OF BUNKER GEAR BECAUSE WE HAD NO TOOLS WE HAD NO
ANYTHING JUST CYLINDERS AND THREE COMPLETE SETS OF BUNKER GEAR BECAUSE EVERYBODY WENT LIKE SAID THE
CHIEF TOLD US BREAK DOWN AND TAKE YOUR STUFF OFF AND THEN THE BUILDINGS CAME DOWN AND NOBODY HAD REALLY
CHANCE TO RECOVER THEIR
THEN ONE GUY WAS SCREAMING LETS ALL GET
TOGETHER LETS ALL GET TOGETHER THE LIEUTENANT SAYS THE FIRST BUILDING FELL THE SECOND BUILDING WILL
LETS KEEP MOVING WE LEFT WE STARTED WALKING ON THE PIER WHEN WE GOT AROUND MORANS BAR OVER TO WHERE THE
IS
BACK ON
YES
WE GOT OUT OF THE BUILDING AND
YOU WERE HEADING NORTH
WE WERE HEADING NORTH UNDER THE LIEUTENANTS
INSTRUCTIONS THAT THE FIRST BUILDING CAME DOWN THE SECOND ONE WILL LETS KEEP MOVING SO WE MOVED
FLOATING HOSPITAL
STOP FOR ONE SECOND OKAY
GEAR
14

BURKE
AROUND AND WE GOT TO THEY HAD THAT FERRY THAT
FLOATING BARGE WE GOT THERE THE OTHER BUILDING STARTED COMING DOWN WE RAN AND AT THIS POINT THERE
WAS GOOD HUNDRED FIREMEN RUNNING GUYS WERE TRIPPING WE WERE WORRIED ABOUT GETTING COVERED WITH DEBRIS WE
ACTUALLY GOT COVERED WITH THE CLOUD AGAIN OVER ON THE PIER SIDE UP THERE
WE ENDED UP GETTING SEPARATED LITTLE BIT AGAIN BUT IT WASNT BAD BECAUSE WE WERE OUTSIDE WHEN
WE GOT UP TO THERE AND GUESS ITS CALLED RIVER TERRACE BY THIS MAP WE WERE GOING UP THERE LIKE
SAID THE SECOND BUILDING HAD FALLEN NOW WE WERE CUT OFF FROM THE FIRST BUILDING BY BEING ON THE PIER SIDE
SO WE HAD TO WALK AROUND TO GET TO AROUND THERE WE HAD
THINK AT THIS POINT IS WHEN WE KNEW EVERYTHING
WAS ALL HAYWIRE
DID YOU HEAR ANY RADIO TRANSMISSIONS AT THAT
POINT THAT YOU RECALL
NOT THAT RECALL IT WAS JUST HECTIC
REALLY WAS WE WENT UP TO THE CORNER SOMEWHERE OVER
HERE AND THERE WAS TWO FERRIES THERE WAS HURT FIREMEN WE HELPED THEM ON THE FERRY
THAT WE WERE STANDING THERE AND IT WAS LIKE
KNOW EXACTLY WHAT TIME IT WAS BUT KNEW IT WAS THE
15
COUPLE OF REMEMBER
DONT

BURKE
AND THEN WE LOOKED AT THE OFFICER AND WE ASKED
MORNING
IF WE CAN GO TRY AND GET SOME WATER OR SOMETHING FOR US AND FOR WHOEVER NEEDED IT
WE WENT INTO STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL BOBBY AND AND WE COMMANDEERED DOLLY WE FILLED IT WITH
SANDWICHES AND JUICES AND WE STARTED HANDING THEM OUT TO WHOEVER NEEDED IT WE JUST STARTED HELPING PEOPLE
ON THE PIER SIDE WE STARTED HELPING FIREMEN AND CIVILIANS ON TO THE FERRY BOATS THEY KEPT GOING BACK AND THEN ALL OF SUDDEN WHEN WE GOT THAT DOLLY FILLED WITH ALL THE STUFF WE GOT BACK TO THE PIER SIDE AND THE FERRY CAME IN WITH WATER WE THREW WATER ON THE DOLLY WE WHEELED THAT DOLLY FOR ABOUT HALF AN HOUR AROUND THE PIER AND WHEREVER WE WERE GOING WE ENDED
UP AT WEST STREET WOULD SAY PROBABLY AROUND MURRAY THATS THE CORNER WHERE STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL IS IF
THATS THE STREET IM NOT REALLY SURE IF IT WAS
THINK WE WERE FURTHER DOWN THAN VESEY THINK WE WERE AT MURRAY
WE ENDED UP OVER THERE AND THEN ALL THE SECOND WAVE OF FIREMEN CAME IN AND YOU COULD SEE THE
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE FIRST WAVE FIREMEN AND THE
SECOND WAVE FIREMEN BECAUSE THE FIRST WAVE FIREMEN HAD THE LOOK IN THEIR EYES LIKE OH MY GOD YOU DONT EVEN
16

BURKE
KNOW WHAT HAPPENED
AT THAT POINT WE WERE JUST THINK
EVERYBODY THE EMOTIONS WERE FRIED JUST WONDERING LIKE YOU WANTED TO DO THINGS BUT WE COULDNT DO ANYTHING WE GOT DOWN THERE AT ONE POINT IN THE DAY WE WALKED DOWN THERE WE JUST GOT BEAT UP WITH THAT SAND STORM AGAIN AND WE FADED BACK THE REST OF THE DAY WE WERE UNLOADING TRUCKS WE WERE JUST DOING WHATEVER LITTLE THINGS WE COULD DO BUT THEY WERE
FOR WORLD TRADE CENTER TO FALL DIDNT CALL MY WIFE UNTIL 400 OCLOCK THAT AFTERNOON TO TELL
HER WAS OKAY
THEN THE LIEUTENANT CALLED HIS WIFE BECAUSE
WE COULDNT GET IN TOUCH WITH ANYBODY OR ANYTHING WE
DIDNT KNOW WHAT THE HELL WAS GOING ON IT WAS JUST
PEOPLE ALL OVER THE PLACE FIREMEN KEPT SHOWING UP AND THEY SAID ANYBODY ON THE RECALL THAT WASNT THERE
BEFORE THE BUILDING FELL THEY LOOKED LIKE THEY WERE JUST GOING TO WORK ALL THE GUYS WHO WERE THERE BEFORE THE BUILDING FELL HAD THIS GAZE IN THEIR EYES LIKE
HOLY SHIT
WAS THERE ANY RADIO TRANSMISSIONS OR ANYBODY YOU MIGHT HAVE RUN INTO THAT YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO ADD THAT MIGHT HELP US
WAITING
17

BURKE
DONT KNOW RIGHT NOW NOT REALLY LIKE
SAID SEEN ANGELINI LOOKING FOR MASK DID HE GET ONE DID YOU FIND ONE
DIDNT HAVE ONE ON MY RIG SAW COUPLE
OF THINGS IN THE WATER THEY HAD NO PRESSURE THEY HAD NO WATER HEARD 131
YOU MENTIONED EARLIER THAT ENGINE 10 WAS YELLING THEY DIDNT HAVE ANY WATER DO HAVE ANY IDEA
WHAT THEIR LOCATION WAS
NO NO THINK IT WAS ENGINE 10 LOOKING FOR
WATER THERE THEY HAD NO PRESSURE THERE WAS PEOPLE WITH NO PRESSURE FIGHTING THE FIRE THATS FROM WHAT
REMEMBER
DO YOU KNOW IF THEY WERE IN THE TOWERS OR THEY WERE FIGHTING FIRES IN THE STREET
IM NOT EVEN SURE IT WAS AT THE BEGINNING OF EVERYTHING IT WAS BASICALLY JUST REMEMBER
HEARING IT JUST REMEMBER HOLY GEEZ THERE IS NO WATER ANYWHERE BECAUSE HEARD EVERYTHING WAS WIPED
OUT THEY JUST KEPT ASKING PEOPLE TO HOOK UP TO THE BUILDING FROM WHAT REMEMBER THEY WERE TRYING TO
AUGMENT FROM AS MANY PLACES AS THEY CAN
ALL RIGHT IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU
CAN THINK OF THAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO ADD AT THIS TIME
18

BURKE
BEFORE WE COMPLETE THE INTERVIEW
THINK GAVE YOU QUICK VERSION BATTALION CHIEF MCGRATH YOU GAVE ME AN
EXCELLENT VERSION ALL RIGHT THE TIME IS 1636 HOURS WANT TO THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND THIS WILL CONCLUDE THE INTERVIEW THEN THANK YOU
19
File No. 9110489
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER ANGEL RIVERA
   Interview Date:  January 22, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
A. RIVERA 2
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today's date is
     January 22nd, 2002.  The time is 1130 hours.
     This is Battalion Chief Frank Congiusta of
     the Safety Battalion of the New York City
     Fire Department.  I'm conducting an
     interview with the following individual.
          Please state your name.
          FIREFIGHTER RIVERA:  My name is
     Firefighter Angel Rivera.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Firefighter Angel
     Rivera is assigned to Ladder 12 of the New
     York City Fire Department.  We are in the
     quarters of Ladder 12.  This interview is
     regarding the events of September 11th,
     2001.
     Q.   Angel, in your own words tell us what
happened.
     A.   Okay.  That Tuesday morning I came to
work at 9:00 the 9 by 6 tour.  So I was changing
clothes and getting ready for work.  There was
excitement going in the firehouse:  It's a bomb,
it's a bomb, the World Trade Center is on fire.
I never saw the plane hit, the first one, but I
was watching the news and we were practically
A. RIVERA 3
glued to the TV set.  There were rumors it was a
bomb.  Some of the people said it was a plane.
Some people saw the plane.  We actually didn't
know what happened the first time.
          We were here, just waiting to be called
to go.  The battalion chief was called first with
Engine 3.  They responded first.  We were left
behind.  As the second plane hit the second
tower, we were called.  It was a fifth alarm on
first call.  We responded to the second fifth
alarm going on.
          Going down Seventh Avenue, everybody's
looking.  You can see the towers.  It was
terrifying what we were seeing from the rig:
both towers, the black smoke pouring out.  We got
there.  I think we came on Liberty Street and
Water Street.  That's where we parked the rig.
          We got off the rig.  We could see
people jumping out.  We could see body parts all
over the place.  We were told go to the second
tower, report to the lobby.  We went and we
reported to the command post.  I don't remember
who the chief was.
     Q.   This was in the second tower?
A. RIVERA 4
     A.   The second tower, the second tower hit,
yes.  We reported over there.  We were there
about ten minutes before the chief told us go to
the Marriott Hotel, go from the 14th floor up,
search and evacuate all the floors.
          So we walk all the way up, no problem.
Then we hear the explosion and debris falling.
We were looking out of the windows and see body
parts all over the place.  It was scary.  It was
very sad.
          We searched 14, 15, went in one lobby,
we came out the other way, we went in one
stairway, came up -- when we hit the 19th floor,
something horrendous happened.  It was like a
bomb went off.  We thought we were dead.
          The whole building shook.  The brick
coming out of -- the door to the hallway into the
hotel blew off like somebody had thrown it all
over the place.  It shook all over the place.  We
were thrown on the floor.
          We looked inside the lobby after
everything calmed down, and everything was
collapsed.  The building was still shaking and
we're still hearing explosions going on
A. RIVERA 5
everywhere, so we decided let's get out of here.
          After we decided to get out of there,
we dropped everything.  We had a roof rope; we
dropped it.  We didn't think about retaining our
tools.  We just wanted to get out of there.  We
ran all the way down to the fourth floor where we
ran out of stairs.  There were no more stairs.
          On the fourth floor we were all safe.
Everyone was there, including a couple of guys
from other companies.
     Q.   Do you know what companies they were
from?
     A.   I think 38 Engine or something like
that.  I can't recall.
          We met on that floor, and we were all
safe.  We were all like -- we could have been
over here.  What happened, we looked out of the
window of the hotel, the wall, practically,
because the window was all blown up.  There was
no way out.  The only way out was the roof rope.
          So Lieutenant Petti, who was in charge
that day, and Firefighter Angel Juarbe decided to
go retrieve the rope.  Angel said, "I'll go get
it."  Lieutenant Petti said, "All right.  I'll go
A. RIVERA 6
with you."  So they went.
          I gave them a call like five minutes
later.
     Q.   Mention what channel you were on.
     A.   We were on Channel 3.  It was very hard
to communicate to the command post.  We had no
idea what was happening.  We had no idea that
everything was gone.  We were on Channel 3 and
calling.  I said, "12 Engine, 12, where are you?"
"We're there.  We're on the way down."
          On the way down they heard a mayday,
"Mayday, mayday.  This is Firefighter Brennan
from 4 Truck.  I'm trapped.  I'm in the Marriott
Hotel.  I'm on the upper floor."  Lieutenant
Petti said, "Turn your pass alarm on so we can
find you."  He said, "I'm in pain.  I cannot
move.  I'm losing consciousness.  Please hurry."
This is the last time I heard Lieutenant Petti
say, "Keep talking.  Keep talking.  We're going
to find you."
          When we came down to the fourth floor,
we encountered two civilians there, one older
fellow and one younger fellow.  Mike Mullan,
which is another of our guys who lost his life,
A. RIVERA 7
was with us.
          When Lieutenant Petti and Angel Juarbe
tried to find this fellow from 4 Truck, Mullan
decided to go -- he was with me on the fourth
floor.  We were safe.  Mullan said, "I'm going to
go up and give them a hand."  The proby, a
brand-new guy, wanted to go, and he asked me,
"Should I go?"  I said, "No.  Just stay with me."
The proby stayed with me.
          Mike Mullan walked one flight up, and
then the most horrendous thing happened.  That's
when hell came down.  It was like a huge,
enormous explosion.  I still can hear it.
Everything shook.  Everything went black.  The
wind rushed, very slowly [sound], all the dust,
all the -- and everything went dark.
          We were rolling all over the floor,
banging against the walls.  We separated from
each other.  I thought I was alone.  I thought I
was buried alive.  After a while -- we waited and
waited and waited, and when the smoke and the
dust started to give way, we could see a little
light from where the stairway went.  So we said,
shit, this is the light of heaven or something or
A. RIVERA 8
this is the light to get out.
          The older guy was beside me.  I touched
him in the dark.  I knew there was somebody
there.  Shit, if we're going to die here, make it
fast.  When the smoke cleared up, we saw the
light very, very slowly just getting clear.
Jesus Christ.  We were exhausted.  We were
depleted.
     Q.   Are you still in the stairway or did
you get out into the lobby?
     A.   No, the guys that were in the
stairwell -- I was in the lobby.  The guys in the
stairway just fell down.  That was Heinz Kothe
and two other guys.  They fell down the stairs.
They were trapped somewhere down below, and they
managed to get out, dig themselves out.
     Q.   What company were they in?
     A.   12 Truck.
     Q.   12 Truck?
     A.   Yeah.  Those were the other guys, who
were all there in the lobby.
          When that happened, these guys were
trying to get down, trying to find their way to
try to make a hole through the rubble to follow
A. RIVERA 9
the stairway, where the stairway was, to get to
safety.  That's when the second tower came down.
          When the second tower came down, we had
no idea what was going on.  We thought another
plane, another bomb, another as a second device.
We thought, this is it, we are dead.
          When that happened, as I told you
before, everything was black.  It was like being
inside a storm or volcano or something, something
horrendous.  We said we're going to die, we're
going to die, God help us.  I thought that was
it, after that it was no more, no more talking.
That was it.  We were all quiet and said where
are we, what happened.
          The smoke cleared up, the ashes or the
cement or whatever.  There was a little opening.
All the rubble had fallen and had formed like a
ledge.  First we walked out and we could see all
the buildings building materials, all the beams,
everything.  I said, "Jesus Christ."
          We tried to walk through that rubble.
It's very, very dangerous.  I had an older guy
with me.  The older guy said, "What am I going to
do?"  I said, "Stay with me.  I'm going to get
A. RIVERA 10
you out of here."  He said, "But I'm an older
man.  I've just had heart surgery."  Actually he
said to me, "I don't think I can make it."  I
said, "Well, you're going to try, and we're going
to make it."  Actually he was very cooperative.
          We walked out onto the rubble.  We're
thinking it can collapse also and we're going to
be dead if we stand here too long.  So finally we
found out where there was a beam.  Maybe God put
it there.  It was an enormous beam about 20 feet
away from us that was against the building but to
the level where we were, like it started where we
were, all the way to the ground.
          One of the guys said, "This is our way
out."  So we all went that way.  But the other
guys were eager to get out.  You don't blame
them.  They all went that way.  I have an older
guy with me.  What am I going to do now?
          What happened, I told him, "Okay, do
you see what they do?  You're going to do that."
He said, "No, I can't."  "Yes, you can."  He
said, "Okay."  I grabbed him by the collar here.
I put him on the beam.  I said, "Just make sure
you keep your balance.  Just slowly slide down
A. RIVERA 11
all the way down.  I'll be right with you."  So
that's how we got out to the bottom.
          When we got out to the bottom, there
was a lot of debris, a lot of water, a lot of
poles, more beams that we have to walk through to
get to safety.  We got out.  There was nobody
around.  There was a mist.
          Finally somewhere in the distance we
could see some like people walking, and there
were some firefighters that were walking around.
The old man, I took him all the way out and I
handed him to a cop, to a policeman, which took
him out to whatever, to safety, and he was
transported to New Jersey or whatever.
          This man is keeping in touch with me.
He found me through the Men'S Journal.  One of
the guys here was interviewed, and he gave all
the accounts.  He mentioned my name, that I was
the last one out, carrying this older guy.  This
older guy, which lives in Florida, found the
article.  He called the firehouse.  Ever since
we've been best friends.  He said, "Thank you for
saving my life.  What a coincidence to be saved
by a firefighter named Angel."
A. RIVERA 12
          That's what I can tell you, Chief.
     Q.   Anything else you want to say, anything
at all?
     A.   That's it.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Thank you for your
     cooperation, Angel.
          FIREFIGHTER RIVERA:  Oh, you're quite
     welcome, Chief.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  It's now 11:45, and
     that's the end of this interview.  Thank you
File No. 9110490
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER CRAIG DUNNE
   Interview Date:  January 22, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
C. DUNNE 2
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today is January
     22nd, 2002.  The time is 1225 hours.  This
     is Battalion Chief Frank Congiusta of the
     Safety Battalion of the New York City Fire
     Department.  I'm conducting an interview
     with the following individual.
          Please state your name.
          FIREFIGHTER DUNNE:  Craig Dunne.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Craig Dunne is a
     Firefighter six grade, assigned to Engine 1
     of the New York City Fire Department.  We're
     at the quarters of Engine 1.  This interview
     is regarding the events of September 11th,
     2001.
     Q.   In your own words, Craig, please tell
us what happened that day.
     A.   We got the ticket about 9 a.m.  We were
over at the Garden on an EMS run.  We heard the
box come in.  We heard the first couple units
down there on the scene.  They were screaming
that a plane went into a building and had
numerous fire showing on numerous floors,
numerous exposures.
          We took up from that run and came back
C. DUNNE 3
to the firehouse.  We got the ticket around 9:00.
We knew pretty much that we were going to be
heading down there.  So we got our stuff down.
We were pretty much on the rig.  We just pulled
up to the quarters when we got the ticket.
          We headed down and we took the West
Side Highway.  I had the door position that day,
so my back was facing the chauffeur.  So I really
didn't get to see much on the way going down to
the towers.
          We got there and parked the rig in
front of the customs building just by the first
pedestrian walk just north of tower one.
     Q.   On West Street?
     A.   On West Street, yeah.  We were on the
eastbound lane of West Street, eastbound side.
There were a couple of parked cars.  Lieutenant
Desperito was with us.  He told us grab an extra
rollup, extra bottles and take our regular rollup
and an extra rollup.  He just said stay together.
          We proceeded to go into the lobby of
tower one.  We got in there.  The glass was down
in the front.  There was a gentleman -- you saw
people that were jumping from the building.  You
C. DUNNE 4
had to look up and make sure you didn't get hit
by any jumpers or anything.  We saw a couple of
people that were burnt on the outside of the
building.  There was a gentleman that was burnt
inside when we went in.
          We went over and got into the lobby and
went over to where the fire command center was,
the board.  The fire command board was on the
wall.  There were a couple of gentlemen behind
there.  There were a few chiefs in there.  I
don't remember who exactly was in there.
          When we got to the command post,
whoever was the incident command that day, they
teamed us up with 15 Engine and they told us to
head towards the 70th floor.
          Engine 1 and 15, we started proceeding
up the B stairwell, passing other people coming
down; no firemen, just a lot of people.  There
was no smoke condition or anything like that
going up.
          We stopped at 12.  Actually there was
emergency service that was with us also.  I'm not
sure what truck it was.  There were actually two
emergency services trucks, four guys, and some
C. DUNNE 5
Port Authority police also.
          We stopped at 12 and took a little
break, let some of the people come down.  That
was maybe a minute or two.  Then we proceeded to
22, where the Port Authority command post was, I
believe was.  That's where we were heading.  I
think we had -- the gentleman that was in charge
of the Port Authority police was with us.
          So we stopped at 22.  Lieutenant
Desperito and I believe one other member of
Engine 1 tried to make their way down the hallway
on the 22nd floor off the B stairwell to the
command post.  We were there three or four
minutes.  The elevator shafts were blown out, so
they had to make their way around -- the fire
came down the elevator shafts.
          We were waiting, taking a breather.
People were still coming down.  All of a sudden
we lost power in the building, and it felt like
somebody was shaking the building.  We didn't
know what was going on, whether our building was
coming down or something was shifting.
          We all piled into the stairwell again.
We were waiting for the boss to come to see what
C. DUNNE 6
we were going to do.  We weren't sure if we were
going up or going down.  Other guys weren't sure
what was going on.
          We really didn't hear much on our
radios.  One of the Port Authority police, I
believe they said they heard a possible collapse,
possible terrorist activity.
          We proceeded to make our way down the
same B stairwell that we came up on.  It had to
have taken us about 15 minutes to get downstairs.
There were no civilians until between the seventh
and fifth floors.  We didn't say the building was
going to come down, because we didn't know.  We
were trying to push them out.
     Q.   Do you know who gave you the order to
go out of the building?
     A.   Lieutenant Desperito.
     Q.   So you got the word from the command
center?
     A.   I believe it was the Port Authority cop
heard of a possible collapse.  We got to like the
third or fourth floor, and you could see a lot of
like white powdery dust was coming into the
stairwell.  When we hit the lobby, there were
C. DUNNE 7
guys covered from head to toe in the white
powder.  I had no clue what was going on.
          I got outside.  We actually went out of
the same door that we went in through the front
lobby.  I came out, and I was helping a gentleman
out to the street.  There was a couple of
emergency services officers, and they grabbed us.
They're like, "Get out of the way!  Get out of
the way!"  We were like "What's going on?"  He
pointed to the left.  Then the whole building was
gone.
          I didn't know the building came down
until we got outside.  I didn't even notice that
building got hit.  That must have gotten hit by
the second aircraft on our way down responding to
the box.  None of us had any knowledge of that.
          We made our way -- I think I was on the
corner -- I headed north on West Street to the
corner of Vesey and West, and we had everybody
with us.  I was actually going down the stairs
with one of the other guys that was with us, Paul
Bessler, that day.  We wound up coming down
together.  The other guys were behind us a little
bit:  Kurt Long, Mike Yarembinsky and Lieutenant
C. DUNNE 8
Desperito.  Kurt was actually behind me.
          Lieutenant Desperito was with Mike
Yarembinsky, and Mike was kind of waiting.  He
said, "Go ahead."  He told us to meet outside,
make sure everybody was together to meet outside
and wait on the corner of Vesey and West.
          I believe we were there maybe two
minutes, two and a half minutes.  We heard the
rumble, looked up, and the antenna started
leaning and the whole building started pancaking
towards us, coming down.
Ihadmymaskonmyback. Alotof guys didn't have it. I ran like 10 or 15 feet. I stopped and I put my face piece on, so I didn't breathe all that stuff in. I was just running up West Street. It was a dark cloud getting darker and darker and darker. I wound up coming out somewhere down by Murray or Park Place or something like that. Then I went back.
          That's it.
     Q.   Do you know what happened to Lieutenant
Desperito?
     A.   He was outside the building,
supposedly.  I don't know the whole story.  He
C. DUNNE 9
was outside the building, and I believe he got
hit in the head with a piece of I beam, possibly.
He got hit.  He was outside the building.
     Q.   He made it out?
     A.   He made it out.  He made it out of the
building.  He was almost there.  Two of the
firemen, I think one -- he's a lieutenant now.
He said him and another fireman -- because he had
his helmet on.  They saw the Engine 1 headpiece.
His helmet shield was still next to him or next
to his helmet.  He recognized that on the radio
it said Engine 1.  So they got him right away,
they said.
          I wound up going to the hospital that
day.  I had a pulled a groin muscle and my lower
back and stuff like that.
     Q.   Anything else?
     A.   Like I said, we didn't even know the
second building got hit.  We really didn't see --
there was tons of people in the lobby.  But
really everything was going so fast, you really
couldn't pinpoint.  Even if I had noticed like
people said they saw me in the lobby and it's
like I remember talking to you, it's like it's --
C. DUNNE 10
     Q.   Like a (inaudible)?
     A.   Exactly, yeah.  Everything is just kind
of like fog.
     Q.   Okay.  All right.  Thanks a lot, Craig.
We appreciate you assisting us.  Hopefully we get
something out of this.
     A.   Yeah, absolutely.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  The time is 12:45,
     and that's the end of this interview.
File No. 9110491
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
              FRANK NOLAN
   Interview Date:  January 23, 2002
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today is January
     23, 2002.  The time is 1100 hours, and this is
     Battalion Chief Frank Congiusta of the Safety
     Battalion of the Fire Department of the City of
     New York.
          I'm conducting an interview with the
     following individual.  Please state your name.
          LIEUTENANT NOLAN:  Frank Nolan, lieutenant,
     Ladder 102.
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Of the Fire
     Department of the City of New York.
          The location of this interview is at the
     quarters of Ladder 102.  This interview is
     regarding the events of September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Frank, would you please give in your own
words what happened that day.
     A.   Well, Ladder 102 responded to the staging
area at Hamilton Avenue on the Brooklyn side of the
Battery Tunnel.
          After the first tower came down, 102 was
ordered by B.C. Coyne of the 42 battalion to evacuate
the north tube of the tunnel.  While doing so, 102
walked the entire length of the tunnel, split up into
two teams, one led by myself, Lieutenant Nolan, and one
2
F. NOLAN
3
led by Lieutenant Ciaravino, who was getting off the
night tour.  We just split into two teams.
          I reported to Battalion Chief O'Connor of the
57, who told us to stay together and just search as
many voids and we could, and Lieutenant Ciaravino led
his own team.  He was radio equipped, and I'm not
really sure where he went.
          We both split up into two teams and began
searching voids.  The first place we went to was -- I
met up with a lieutenant from 10 truck, who took us to
where the north tower lobby was, and we began searching
voids and trying to follow the sounds of pass alarms,
to no avail.
          And that's about it.  We worked for the next
20 hours or so until about four in the morning just
removing bodies.
     Q.   You found bodies?
     A.   We found two civilian bodies, and we just
helped remove them.  Actually, I remember the guy's
name, too, one of the guys' names, and that was it.
     Q.   When you went through the tunnel, you just
walked through the tunnel, and when there was nobody in
there, you continued on to the site?
     A.   Right.  We walked through the tunnel.  We
F. NOLAN
4
were told that there was infirmed and elderly who were
struggling to get out, but as we walked, the people
were just passing us, and we found nobody in need of
our assistance.
          They just continued to exit to the Brooklyn
side, and we continued on to the Manhattan side.
     Q.   Anything else you want to say?
     A.   That's it.  That's all I can remember that
day.
          Also, yes, I was -- after leaving Chief
O'Connor and searching various voids, I would every now
and then go back to the command post with D. C. Hayden,
who was in command, and he would send us to various
assignments, and that was it.
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Thank you for you
     are cooperation.
          This concludes this interview.  The time is
     1110 hours.  Thank you very much.

FILE NO 9110492
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER DOUGLAS FERRETTI
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 24 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

FERRETTI
CHIEF CONGIUSTA TODAYS DATE IS JANUARY 24TH 2002 THE TIME IS 1400 HOURS
THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF FRANK CONGIUSTA OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT AM
CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUAL
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME
FIREFIGHTER FERRETTI FERRETTI
DOUGLAS
CHIEF CONGIUSTA DOUGLAS FERRETTI IS FIREMAN IN LADDER 47 OF THE NEW YORK CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT WE ARE AT THE QUARTERS OF LADDER 47 THIS INTERVIEW IS REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11TH 2001
WOULD YOU PLEASE GIVE WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAY IN YOUR OWN WORDS
WE GOT THE RUN WE HEARD ABOUT THE TRADE CENTER ON THE TV WE GOT THE RUN DOWN TO
THE TRADE CENTER WE GOT RELOCATED TO TRUCK
FROM CHINATOWN BY THE TIME WE GOT TO LADDER 6S QUARTERS THE FIRST TOWER HAD ALREADY COME DOWN THEN WE GOT THE CALL TO BUILDING CLOSE TO THE TOWERS TO CHECK FOR SMOKE IN THE BUILDING
WHEN WE CHECKED OUT THE BUILDING IT

FERRETTI
WAS DUE TO THE SMOKE FROM THE TOWERS SO ON OUR
WAY OUT WAS PUTTING MY STUFF ON THE RIG AND THEN THE SECOND TOWER CAME DOWN IT WAS ALL
HANDS FOR THEMSELVES EVERYBODY RAN RAN ABOUT TWO BLOCKS SAW REVOLVING DOOR AND
WENT INTO THE REVOLVING DOORS WHERE THERE WERE ABOUT 15 TO 20 CIVILIANS IN THERE TRYING TO GET
COVER
WE WAITED IT OUT FROM THERE ON IN IT
WAS JUST TRYING TO HELP PEOPLE GET OUT OF THE AREA
DID IT TURN BLACK AS NIGHT
YES IT WAS BLACK ABOUT 10 15 MINUTES SOMETHING LIKE THAT
ALL YOU DID IS HELP SOME CIVILIANS OUT
YEAH THAT WAS ABOUT ALL WE COULD DO REALLY WE REALLY COULDNT GET TOO CLOSE TO IT
BECAUSE WE WERE DIRECTLY DOWN WIND WE COULDNT SEE ANYTHING YOU DIDNT KNOW WHAT YOU WERE GETTING INTO
ANYTHING ELSE YOU CAN THINK OF THAT
MIGHT HELP US
THATS ABOUT IT THATS ABOUT ALL THAT
HAPPENED
THATS IT

THERE
FERRETTI
WHERE DID YOU GUYS GO AFTERWARDS
THEY HAD STAGING AREA BY THE CHURCH
ST PAULS
THATS THE CHURCH RIGHT HERE AT THE
TRADE CENTER THEY HAD STAGING AREA THERE WE
HUNG OUT THERE FOR PROBABLY TWO HOURS NOTHING REALLY HAPPENED SO WE WENT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND WE WENT ON THE LEEWARD SIDE
WHAT YOU UNDERSTAND WAS THE DUST
PARTICLES WERE YOU DOING LOT OF COUGHING HAD ONE OF THOSE DUST MASKS
IT WORKED PRETTY GOOD
YEAH HAD GOOD ONE HAD ONE
WITH VALVE IN IT
WHERE DID YOU GET THAT
ON THE RIG MY SENIOR MAN HE HAD TWO OF THEM AND HE GAVE ME ONE
WOW
DIDNT TAKE MINE OFF TELL
YOU WHEN YOU TOOK IT OFF IT WAS ABRASIVE YOU COULD
FEEL YOU WERE BREATHING SOMETHING BAD
WERE CIVILIANS YEAH
COUGHING

FERRETTI
SO IT WAS IRRITATING
OH YEAH YOUR EYES ARE BLEEDING
YOURE COUGHING WAS
YOU THINK THE WIND WOULD BLOW THAT
GUESS WAS EXPOSED TO IT FOR MAYBE 20 MINUTES BEFORE PUT THE MASK ON YOU COULD FEEL RIGHT AWAY THAT IT COULD BE DETRIMENTAL TO
YOUR HEALTH
IF THATS IT THATS THE END OF THIS
INTERVIEW THANKS LOT FOR YOUR COOPERATION YOURE WELCOME
CHIEF CONGIUSTA THE TIME IS 1410 HOURS
File No. 9110493
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
          LT. THOMAS PIAMBINO
   Interview Date:  January 24, 20002
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today's date is
     January 24, 2002.  The time is 1200 hours.
          This is Battalion Chief Frank Congiusta of
     the safety battalion of the New York City Fire
     Department.
          I'm a conducting an interview with the
     following individual.
     Q.   Please state your name.
     A.   Thomas Piambino.
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Thomas Piambino
     is in Marine 1 of the New York City Fire
     Department.  We are at the quarters of Marine 1.
     This interview is regarding the events of
     September 11, 2001.
     Q.   Thomas, in your own words, if you would say
what happened that day.
     A.   On 9/11, I was assigned to Engine 65, and
approximately two, three minutes after nine, we
responded to the World Trade Center box.
          I had been watching it on television for the
first few minutes, and we were aware of the fact that
it was an aircraft that hit the building, but I wasn't
sure at the time whether it was an accident or not.
          Responded down the Westside Highway.  We made
3
          On arrival, I saw both towers.  Prior to our
arriving, on the radio, I heard Marine Company 1
transmitting another aircraft had hit another
building.  I wasn't sure which building was which at
the time, but when we arrived, both buildings had been
hit.  Both buildings were on fire.
          I could see at least eight or ten floors,
from my opinion, at that point in the street that were
pretty much fully involved, and at least both buildings
on the upper floors.
          The chauffeur let me off on West Street on
the west side of the north tower, and we got out and
the chauffeur proceeded south.
     Q.   That's just a diagram.
     A.   You know, where he wound up, I have an idea
now, but up until this point for the past couple of
weeks, it really wasn't clear to me what he did with
the apparatus while I went into the building.
          We went in through the west side of the
building right off of West Street into the north
tower.  We went into, I guess, the -- I think the
windows were out already.  They were already blown out
T. PIAMBINO
pretty good time going down there.  There was no
traffic, and we got there relatively quick.
T. PIAMBINO
4
when we got there, so I don't even think I went in
through a door.  I'm pretty sure I went in through a
window into the west side of the north tower.
          There was no command post there, and they
were just sending us up.  I had no particular
assignment.  We had our roll-ups, Scott bottles and
extra Scott bottles we were carrying.
          We went -- I think it was Engine 39 we might
have teamed up with, and, you know, there was a
battalion chief there.  I don't know what battalion he
was from or what his name was, but we teamed up with
39, and we proceeded to go up.
     Q.   Which stairway?
     A.   Stairway B, and there were civilians coming
down the stairway.  The civilian evacuation, in my
opinion, was kind of orderly.  They stayed to one side,
and we stayed to the other side and worked our way up.
          I wasn't positive of what floors the fire was
on.  I didn't have any information.  The handie-talkie
information was pretty sketchy at best, and I don't
know what point I heard this on the radio, but someone
had said on the handie-talkie that there was a third
aircraft inbound, and that is when I heard that, I
specifically heard that, and at one point I guess -- I
T. PIAMBINO
5
don't know what -- where we were.  In retrospect, I
know what it was.
          The south tower had fallen, but at that time
I didn't know what it was.  All I heard was a
tremendous explosion.  The tower I was in shook really
bad.  It really shook bad, and my opinion, I thought it
was another aircraft that hit the building.
          We continued to go up.  The emergency landing
I think went out.  There were still civilians coming
down the stairs, and in my opinion, there was no one
thing.  There was no one thing that made me decide to
get out.  I can't tell you.  I can't pinpoint
anything.  It was just -- I don't know what it was.  It
was just the culmination of intuition or what.
          I just decided it was time to go, and I
thought this was odd, too, was that something must have
happened, because I think a lot of people were at that
particular moment -- the consensus was that we were
getting out.  I received no handie-talkie
communications to get out.
     Q.   Did anybody tell you maybe?
     A.   No one told me to get out.
     Q.   Because some guys have heard it, some guys
haven't.
T. PIAMBINO
6
     A.   No, I was -- absolutely nothing.  There was
no handie-talkie communications that I heard.  Whether
they transmitted them or not, I can't say.  I didn't
hear it.  I didn't hear it.
          We went as high as -- I had five men manning
that day, so I had four firefighters with me, and my
intent was to go to the fire floor and do what we could
do, and we were taking it easy, trying to pace myself.
          What I would do is I would walk up two floors
and wait for them to come up.  I would let them stay.
I'd walk up another two floors.  This way we were
alternating, trying to pace ourselves to get up
wherever it was we were going.
          I didn't know.  I heard some radio
transmissions that might have been from rescue.  It
might have been -- I don't want to mention names, but
it was a rescue officer, 80 something.  80 something
floor rings a bell with me about the fire floor, heavy
fire or something.
     Q.   You think they made it up that high?
     A.   That's what my memory tells me.  How accurate
I'm -- you know, how accurate I am, I don't know.  80
something rings a bell with me, and, you know,
something about fire conditions.
T. PIAMBINO
7
Now, what tower that came from, I don't know. I don't know whether I was hearing it from the south tower or the north tower. I don't know. I don't know. Wemadeitupashighas20. Imadeitupas high as the 22nd Floor, and about that time, I met -- I think my men were maybe on the 20th Floor, and I started to come down, and at that point in time, I just said, "It's time to go."
          The stairway still had civilians in it, and
they were still moving out, and we took whatever
civilians we could take with us downstairs.  We were
not leaving them behind.  I mean, we were not passing
them to get out of the building.
          It was painfully slow going down, and in my
mind -- again, this is only my perception, my
intuition.  I just kept telling myself, I'm running out
of time to get out of the building.  Kept to myself.  I
was just running out of time.
          We proceeded down the stairway, and we had
some civilians with us, and we managed to get them down
to the lobby.  When I got down to the lobby -- the
lobby was in bad shape when I went up.  It was worse
when I came back down.  All the elevator shaftway doors
were blown out, and there was stuff coming down the --
T. PIAMBINO
8
just falling down the shafts, and the civilians had
bogged down at the bottom of the stairs, because they
were afraid to pass the elevator shafts, and there were
piles of rubble all over the place.
          We kind of quietly pushed them out without
trying to panic them.  In the lobby, I think I saw some
people from 21 engine perhaps.  I'm not positive, and
we came out the same way I came in on the West Street
side, on the west side of the building, the West Street
side of the building.  Again, went out windows that
were out.  I don't recall it being a door.  I'm pretty
sure it was windows that were blown out, and I met --
or I seen Chief Turi with a bullhorn out on West
Street, trying to facilitate the evacuation of the
building, telling the guys to get out of the building
with the bullhorn.
          When I made it down to West Street -- prior
to even getting to the street, there was bodies on the
floor from jumpers.  My recollection is there were
civilians.  I saw no -- you know, I didn't see anything
that was Fire Department, but it was civilians, and I
tried to keep all my guys together, and I made it down
to West Street.
          There was stuff just falling off the
T. PIAMBINO
9
building, too.  I mean, the building was just starting
to fall apart, and when I made it down to West Street,
there was a large building.  They tell me now it was
the Verizon building on my right-hand side, and my
instinct was to keep that Verizon building between me
and the towers, the whole company and the towers.
          So we headed north on West Street, keeping --
staying close to the large building, and I don't think
we were out of the building a minute, a minute and a
half.  We exited the building, and the north tower
started to fall.
          We were pretty much together at that point,
the whole company.  I know they were all out.  I know
specifically I had two guys with me that I know for
sure, and I know the other two guys made it.  The other
two guys I had made on it out.  I know they were out of
the building.  At that point, I really wasn't positive
as to where they were, but I know two guys I had with
me.
          We started to go north on West Street as fast
as we could.  We weren't running, but we were moving,
walking pretty fast, and then the north tower started
to fall, and my perception was that when I looked back
at the tower as it was starting to come down -- I was
T. PIAMBINO
10
booking -- was that there was -- I thought it exploded,
and I didn't realize it had collapsed.
          It looked to me like an explosion, and you
could feel the -- you could feel it coming, and they
were still running away from it.  I mean, you weren't
going to out run it.
          At that point, we all split up.  I mean, it
was like run, and each one of us took refuge behind
something, and I wound up taking refuge behind an ESU
truck, I believe it was, a Police Department ESU truck,
I think, and I just rode it out until first there was
the explosion or the concussion, and then there was
very, very strong wind, and then there was the black --
black -- dirt black cloud, and you couldn't see
nothing, and it became very, very quiet, and when it
became quiet, the only thing I heard after that was
somebody crying.
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Thank you,
     Thomas, for your cooperation.
          The time is about 1230 hours, and that
     concludes this interview.

FILE NO 9110494
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT EDWARD MARTINEZ
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 24 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

MARTINEZ
MR RADENBERG TODAY IS JANUARY 24 2002
IM PAUL RADENBERG OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENTS WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE THE TIME IS NOW 1303
HOURS IM CURRENTLY AT EMS BATTALION 17 IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH
EDDIE MARTINEZ OF BATTALION 17 EMT EDDIE
MARTINEZ
OKAY THIS INTERVIEW IS REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11 2001 EDDIE COULD YOU START FROM
ALL RIGHT ON SEPTEMBER 11 WE WERE DISPATCHED TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER FOR AN MCI MASS
CASUALTY INCIDENT IT WAS IN THE MORNING WE DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON ALL WE KNEW WAS THAT ON THE NEWS PLANE HAD CRASHED INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER SO WE HEADED DOWN THERE WE HEADED DOWN TOWARDS THE
TOWERS
WE TOOK THE FDR DOWN WHICH WAS CLOSED OFF TO TRAFFIC THEY HAD SPECIAL LANE FOR THE EMERGENCY
VEHICLES SO WE MADE GOOD TIME GETTING DOWN THERE
ONCE WE WERE DISPATCHED TO VESEY AND WEST STREET VESEY AND WEST STREET UPON ENTERING THE AREA WHAT WE SAW
WAS LIKE TOTAL DEVASTATION FROM GUESS FROM THE FIRST PLANE THAT STRUCK THE TOWER THERE WERE BURNT CARS WE SAW IT WAS LIKE GRAYISH IT WAS

MARTINEZ
NIGHT IT WAS SUNLIGHT THERE WAS LOT OF LIGHT IT WAS SUNNY CLEAR DAY BUT IN THAT AREA IT WAS
GRAYISH AREA THE SUN WASNT SHINING IT WAS LIKE FOG LIKE BIG FOG
WE SAW LIKE SAID BURNED VEHICLES SOME OF
THEM WERE ON FIRE THE BUILDINGS WERE JUST DESTROYED THE SURROUNDINGS THERE WAS TOO MUCH FOR THE EYES TO
CAPTURE EVERYTHING ALL AT ONCE IT WAS LIKE
OVERWHELMING
WE WERE TOLD TO GO TO OUR STAGING AREA WHICH
WE ATTEMPTED TO DO THEN WE WOULD REVERSE BACK UP DONT KNOW THE STREET THAT WE WERE ON AT THAT TIME AT
THAT MOMENT EVERYTHING LOOKED THE SAME WAS THE
TECH MY PARTNER WAS DRIVING AT THE TIME
COMING OUT OF THE GETTING OUT OF THE AMBULANCE TO GET THE EQUIPMENT TO GO TO WHERE OUR
STAGING AREA WAS SUPPOSED TO BE COMMENTED TO MY PARTNER THAT THERE WERE SOME BURNT PARTS ON THE FLOOR WHICH TURNED OUT TO BE FLESH THAT WERE STREWN ALL AROUND THE PLACE EVERYWHERE YOU LOOKED YOU SEE
PIECE OF SOMETHING AT THE TIME WAS UNTIL CAME CLOSE TO IT
DIDNT KNOW WHAT IT SAW IT WAS PIECE OF
THEY TOLD MY PARTNER
FLESH
AT THAT TIME WE JUST

MARTINEZ
TO TURN THE AMBULANCE AROUND AND THEY HAD NEW STAGING AREA WHICH WAS FURTHER AWAY FROM THE BUILDING AND WE JUST MADE TURN AND WENT UP NOT THAT FAR FROM WHERE WE ORIGINALLY WERE ASSIGNED TO AND ONCE WE WERE THERE WE WERE STARTED TAKING THE EQUIPMENT OUT OF THE AMBULANCE AND TOLD MY PARTNER THAT WILL SEE HIM IN
LITTLE WHILE WITH THE FIRST
WELL HE STOOD WITH THE AMBULANCE AND PUT
ALL THE EQUIPMENT ON THE STRETCHER AND PUT MY GEAR ON MY HELMET AND MY COAT AND HEADED DOWN TOWARDS THE
TOWERS WAS IN FRONT OF THE TOWERS HAD WALKED LITTLE DISTANCE SOME DISTANCE FROM THE AMBULANCE AND
WAS ATTENDING PATIENT SOMEBODY WAS HURT IT WAS ON THE GROUND THERE WERE OTHER PATIENTS ALL AROUND BUT
THIS ONE WAS HE WAS HURT
WAS TALKING TO HIM WHEN HEARD LOUD
LIKE ROARING NOISE LIKE LOUD LOUD ROARING NOISE
AT THE TIME DIDNT KNOW WHAT IT WAS JUST LOOKED UP ALL COULD SEE BECAUSE OF THE FOG THAT WAS THERE YOU COULDNT SEE ABOVE YOUR DISTANCE WAS LIMITED
ONCE HEARD THAT HEARD LIKE
TREMENDOUS EXPLOSION LET ME PUT IT THAT WAY AND RUMBLING SOUND
AT THAT TIME STARTED
BIG EXPLOSION
SEEING THINGS COMING
PATIENT

MARTINEZ
DOWN ATTEMPTED TO GRAB GRABBED THE PERSON THAT WAS TALKING TO AND TO GET AWAY FROM THAT AREA BUT HE
SLIPPED BACK DOWN AND AT THAT TIME EVERYTHING STARTED
COMING DOWN SO ATTEMPTED TO RUN SOME DISTANCE WHICH COULDNT RUN BECAUSE IT OVERTOOK ME LIKE
SAID IT HAPPENED LIKE REALLY QUICK
ALSO FELT MYSELF AIRBORNE WAS
AIRBORNE DIDNT GET THAT FAR WAS AIRBORNE
FELT FORCE BEHIND ME AND IT SLAMMED ME DOWN ON THE
GROUND GOT SLAPPED DOWN ON THE GROUND EVERYTHING STARTED HITTING ME WHATEVER WAS FALLING AT THE TIME DIDNT KNOW WHAT IT WAS THOUGHT MAYBE THAT THE
BUILDING THAT WAS ON FIRE EXPLODED DIDNT KNOW FOUND OUT LATER ON THAT THE SECOND PLANE HAD HIT ANOTHER BUILDING THE SECOND TOWER
WHEN FELL FELL FORWARD AND WITH MY HANDS EXTENDED STILL WAS GETTING BOMBARDED WITH LOT OF
HEAVY WHATEVER IT WAS HITTING ME CONCRETE WHATEVER WAS GETTING HIT HARD AND WHEN FELL ON THE FLOOR
THAT FELL WITH MY ON MY STOMACH FACE DOWN WITH MY HANDS EXTENDED SOMETHING HEAVY FELL ON MY HAND AND BOUNCED OFF AT THAT TIME MY ARM WAS BROKEN
ALSO FELT SOME SHARP PAINS TO MY BACK AND THEN WAS INSIDE SOME DARK CLOUD OF SMOKE IT

MARTINEZ
WAS SO DARK YOU COULDNT SEE YOUR HAND IT WAS CHOKING IT WAS LIKE CHOKING SMOKE AT THAT TIME
HAD NO IDEA WHERE WAS DIDNT HEAR HEARD NOTHING IT WAS TOTAL SILENCE
IM TRYING TO FIND MY WAY OUT MY BROKEN ARM HOLDING ON TO MY BROKEN
PAIN IN MY BACK JUST STARTED WALKING DIRECTION THAT FELL BECAUSE KNEW IF
NO VOICES
OF THERE WITH ARM WITH THE IN THE
TURNED
IN THAT WAS IN
WOULD LOSE MY WAY SO CONTINUED IT SEEMED LIKE FOREVER THAT
AROUND DIRECTION
THERE
LIKE SUSPENDED ANIMATION THATS WHAT IT FELT LIKE
DIDNT KNOW IT FELT LIKE IT WAS WALKING IN
CONTINUED
VOICE BECAUSE KEPT THERE ANYBODY HERE
WALKING AND HEARD SOME YELLING IS THERE ANYBODY
HERE IS
JUST KEPT WALKING AND HEARD VOICE THAT JUST KEPT SAYING FOLLOW THE LIGHT SAW
THE LIGHT THROUGH THE THICK SMOKE THE LIGHT WAS LIKE AT DISTANCE BUT IT WAS CLEAR ENOUGH IT WAS LIGHT
IT WAS BRIGHT LIGHT IT WAS CLEAR IT
ENOUGH TO FOLLOW
SO CONTINUED FOLLOWING IT IT WASNT AS
WAS FOLLOWING IT REMEMBER FELT DIDNT KNOW WHAT THAT WAS AT THE TIME
STARTED SEEING IT WAS LIKE
LOT OF HEAT GOT OUT OF
HAZE SAW

MARTINEZ
IT WAS VEHICLE THAT WAS HURNT UP AND WHEN GOT OUT OF THE SMOKE THERE WAS NOBODY AROUND NOBODY WITH
LIGHT NOTHING THERE WAS NOBODY AROUND IT WAS JUST TOTAL SILENCE
WALKED SHORT DISTANCE AND SAW KAREN THAT WAS ONE OF THE PARAMEDICS FROM MY OLD STATION SAW HER CAME OVER TO HER AND TOLD HER THAT WAS HURT AT THAT TIME THEY GOT ME PUT ME INSIDE
HELPED ME OVER TO AN AMBULANCE TOLD THEM MY ARM WAS BROKEN AT THAT TIME THEY CHECKED MY BACK AND THEY
FOUND THAT HAD DEEP LACERATION TO MY BACK COULDNT BREATHE ON MY RIGHT SIDE MY LEFT WAS OKAY
FELT AIR GOING THROUGH BUT MY RIGHT SIDE WAS LIKE WAS HAVING PROBLEMS LOT OF PROBLEMS BREATHING
AT THIS TIME THEY SPLINTED MY ARM AND THEY CHECKED MY BACK THEY TOLD ME THAT HAVE DEEP
LACERATION TO MY BACK AND THEY THOUGHT THAT MAY HAVE
WHAT THEY CALL PNEUMOTHORAX TURNED OUT LUCKY FOR ME THAT DIDNT HAVE PNEUMOTHORAX BUT DID HAVE
LOT OF SHRAPNEL INSIDE MY BACK THATS WHAT WAS
HURTING ME
THEY WERE ATTEMPTING TO TAKE CARE OF MY BACK
WHEN ONE OF THE OTHER MEDICS THAT WAS ON THE SCENE
HE WAS LEERY ABOUT THE PLACE BECAUSE THERE WAS NO SAFE

MARTINEZ
AREA AT THIS TIME THERE WAS LOT GOING ON THERE
WAS NOISE
ALL OF
LOT OF NOISE REMEMBER HEARING STILL LOT OF DONT KNOW IF THINGS WERE STILL FALLING BUT
SUDDEN WE HEARD ANOTHER RUMBLING SOUND AND
AGAIN WITH THE SMOKE YOU SAW THE SMOKE COMING DOWN AND
EVERYBODY JUST RAN TOWARDS SAFETY
RAN INTO DONT REMEMBER THE PLACE RAN INTO KNOW RAN INTO PLACE THAT ONCE GOT
INSIDE THERE WAS TOTAL THERE WAS LOT OF SMOKE INSIDE AND LOT OF PEOPLE WERE EVERY WHICH WAY THEY
WERE GOING EVERY DIRECTION NOBODY KNEW WHERE TO GO OR WHAT DIRECTION TO GO
SAW WOMAN THERE AND SHE WAS LIKE FROZEN WITH FEAR GUESS IT WAS SO WENT OVER TO HER AND
TRIED TO HELP HER OUT TRIED TO COMFORT HER AND TELLING HER THAT EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE OKAY JUST CALM DOWN BECAUSE SHE WAS LIKE ALMOST HYSTERICAL SO WAS TAKING CARE OF HER FOR LITTLE WHILE UNTIL COULDNT DO IT ANY MORE JUST LIKE FELT MYSELF GETTING MY BREATHING WAS GETTING WORSE IT WASNT GETTING ANY BETTER
SO THEN AT SOME DONT KNOW WHO IT WAS INSIDE ASKED THEM IF THEY HAD ANY OXYGEN AND THERE
WERE SOME EMTS GUESS FROM VOLUNTEER AMBULANCE

MARTINEZ
CORPS THEY CAME OVER AND GOT AN OXYGEN MASK ON ME AT THAT TIME THEY CHECKED MY BACK AND HIS REACTION WAS
LIKE YOU HAVE LIKE BIG LACERATION TO YOUR BACK
MY MAIN CONCERN AT THAT TIME ALTHOUGH MY BACK WAS HURTING AND WAS SHORT OF BREATH BECAUSE OF
ALL THAT SMOKE THAT INHALED MY ARM HAD BEEN SPLINTED WAS HOLDING MY ARM AS MATTER OF FACT
THE SPLINT WASNT HOLDING SO WAS JUST HOLDING ARM
BUT THAT WOMAN JUST KEPT DIDNT WANT
NOTHING TO HAPPEN TO HER IT WAS LIKE YOU KNOW WOMAN IN HER 50S OR SOMETHING SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE
MEDICAL
THEY TOOK HER
SHE WAS MORE CALM TALKED TO HER FOR
SO
LITTLE WHILE SHE SEEMED MUCH BETTER THEN SOME
PERSONNEL THINK CAME OVER AND TOLD THEM AND
THEN AT THAT TIME THEY STARTED RUNNING INWARD TOWARDS FURTHER INTO THE BUILDING THAT WAS IN
BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THAT THE BUILDING WAS GOING TO COLLAPSE OUTSIDE HAD NO IDEA WHAT WAS GOING ON
OUTSIDE DIDNT KNOW THAT
KNEW WAS THAT WAS HURT
FURTHER INTO THIS BUILDING AS MATTER OF FACT WANT TO GO OUT OF THE BUILDING BECAUSE THIS IS AN
PLANE HAD STRUCK ALL SAID NO IM NOT GOING
MY

MARTINEZ
UNSAFE AREA HERE
REMEMBER GOING OUT AND IT SEEMED LIKE
WALKED FOR DONT KNOW HOW LONG DISTANCE BECAUSE
THERE WERE NO BLOCKS ANY MORE IT WAS JUST ONE BIG ROAD ONE BIG MESS JUST CONTINUED WALKING AND
PEOPLE WERE REMEMBER TWO ESU COPS THINK IT WAS
GRABBED ME BECAUSE FURTHER COULDNT
OUT
DURING THE AIRBORNE WHEN GOT
WAS ALREADY TOO WEAK TO GO ANY FELT LIKE WAS GOING TO PASS
TIME THAT GOT HIT WHEN WAS SLAMMED ON THE FLOOR REMEMBER
MY INITIAL REACTION WAS TO STAY AWAKE AND DONT PASS
OUT JUST KEPT REPEATING IT TO MYSELF JUST DONT PASS OUT STAY AWAKE STAY CONSCIOUS AND THANK GOD DID NEVER LOST CONSCIOUSNESS THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE THING
AT ONE TIME COULDNT GET UP COULDNT
GET UP BECAUSE WAS BEING BOMBARDED WITH WHATEVER WAS
HITTING ME AND FINALLY WHEN IT STOPPED IT JUST SEEMED LIKE HOURS IT WAS PROBABLY JUST MINUTES OR SECONDS
FINALLY GOT UP THATS WHEN FELT THE PAIN IN MY BACK AND KNEW MY ARM WAS BROKEN BECAUSE FELT IT
BREAK
THEY TOOK ME WENT TO REMEMBER SEEING
10

MARTINEZ
THE COPS COMING OVER AND IM TELLING THEM THAT FEEL LIKE CANT GO ON ANY MORE AND WAS READY TO FALL
THEY GRABBED ME AND THEY HELPED ME AWAY FROM THAT AREA THEY PUT ME ON BOAT THAT WAS GOING TO JERSEY CITY THATS WHERE ENDED UP IN JERSEY CITY MEDICAL CENTER
REMEMBER COMING OUT OF THAT BUILDING THAT WAS IN AND SAW BURNT AMBULANCE WHICH LATER ON THEY TOLD ME THAT OUR AMBULANCE WAS BURNT UP DONT KNOW
IF THATS THE ACTUAL AMBULANCE THAT SAW ALL KNOW IS SAW LOT OF DESTRUCTION ALL AROUND THE PLACE
FIRE TRUCKS AND LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WERE HURT
WAS PUT ON THE BOAT ALONG WITH SOME OTHER FIREFIGHTERS THAT WERE THERE AND TAKEN TO JERSEY CITY
MEDICAL CENTER AND THEY TOLD ME
11

MARTINEZ
WONDERED ABOUT HIM HE WENT IN DIDNT SEE HIM WAS WORRIED FOR HIM WHEN
EVERYTHING STARTED COMING DOWN REMEMBER THAT HE WAS WITH THE AMBULANCE DIDNT SEE HIM UNTIL TWO DAYS
LATER AT THE HOSPITAL HAD NO IDEA WHAT HAD HAPPENED TO HIM ASKED SOME OF THE PEOPLE ABOUT HIM NOBODY KNEW ANYTHING NOBODY HAD NO INFORMATION ALL THEY KNEW WELL EVERYBODY WAS IN THE SAME STATE THAT
WAS IN CONFUSED STATE NOT KNOWING WHAT HAD HAPPENED
IT WASNT UNTIL LIKE TWO DAYS LATER BECAUSE WAS HEAVILY SEDATED AND ON MORPHINE THAT STARTED
THEY TOLD ME THAT THE SECOND PLANE HAD HIT THE BUILDING AND THAT WAS CAUGHT IN THE COLLAPSE OF THE
BUILDING
HOSPITAL UNTIL NOW
DAYS LATER WAS RELEASED FROM THE
WAS THERE YES DAYS CONTINUED THERAPY INAUDIBLE
MY PARTNER
OKAY DO YOU REMEMBER ROUGHLY YOU HAD SEEN OR HEARD ON THE NEWS ABOUT THE FIRST PLANE
HITTING RIGHT
SAW DIDNT HEAR ANYTHING ABOUT IT
12

MARTINEZ
UNTIL AROUND WELL KNEW THAT THE FIRST KNEW THERE WAS PLANE CRASH INTO THE WORLD TOWERS
DIDNT KNOW WHAT KIND OF PLANE IT WAS THOUGHT IT WAS MAYBE YEARS AGO THAT PLANE HIT THE
EMPIRE STATE BUILDING
EMPIRE STATE BUILDING THOUGHT IT WAS SMALL PLANE BUT REMEMBER WHEN WE WERE GOING DOWN
TOWARDS THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WE WERE ON THE FDR DRIVE SAW WE GOT CLEAR VIEW SAID THIS
WASNT SMALL PLANE THIS WAS BIGGER THAN THOUGHT THEN LATER ON WAS WHEN FOUND OUT THAT IT WAS 747
OR WHATEVER THAT HIT THAT DIDNT KNOW AND LIKE TWO DAYS LATER IS WHEN THEY TOLD ME DIDNT WATCH THE NEWS UNTIL GOT OUT OF THE HOSPITAL UNTIL THREE DAYS LATER DIDNT WANT TO HEAR ABOUT THE NEWS THE NEWSPAPERS OR ANYTHING
WHO WAS YOUR PARTNER THAT DAY BENNY BADILLO
WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT THE SCENE YOU SAID YOU CAME FIRST TO VESEY AND WEST
YES
WHEN YOU GOT THERE DO YOU REMEMBER ANY OTHER EMS PERSONNEL DOWN THERE AT THAT POINT ANY OFFICERS
THAT YOU RECOGNIZED OR TECHS MEDICS
13

MARTINEZ
THERE WERE OTHER AMBULANCES FROM DIFFERENT
AGENCIES DOWN THERE OFFHAND LIKE SAID
JUST OVERWHELMING WHAT
EMERGENCY MEDICAL PERSONNEL SAW SOME PD AND
FIREFIGHTERS AROUND BUT DIDNT RECOGNIZE THAT KNEW UNTIL AFTER CAME OUT OF THE
THATS WHEN KAREN SHE BLURTED OUT LIKE WANT TO SAY BECAUSE YOU HAD AN INTERVIEW
ANYBODY SMOKE
DONT YOU HAVE
DIDNT RECOGNIZE ANYBODY
WAS LIKE FOLLOWING IT WAS
WAS LOOKING AT SAW OTHER
THIS INTERVIEW
SHE WAS SURPRISED THAT IT WAS ME AND
RECOGNIZED HER AND HER PARTNER DONT REMEMBER HER
PARTNERS NAME THATS WHEN RECOGNIZED HER AND THEY TOOK HOLD OF ME WALKED OVER TO THEM
WHEN THEY HAD YOU MOVE OR HAD YOUR PARTNER MOVE THE BUS DO YOU REMEMBER WHERE OR WHAT DIRECTION
THE BUS GOT MOVED
KNOW BELIEVE HE WAS FACING TOWARDS THE
TOWERS BECAUSE WE WENT UP WE WENT LIKE DOWN SEEMED LIKE LITTLE HILL WE WERE GOING DOWN AND THEY TOLD
US MOVE THE AMBULANCE AWAY FROM THE AREA THEY HAD NEW STAGING AREA BECAUSE THAT STAGING AREA WAS UNSAFE WHICH WAS GLAD THAT WE MOVED BECAUSE ANYTHING THERE GOT DEMOLISHED WHERE WE WERE BEFORE
14

MARTINEZ
SO WE MADE TURN WENT BACK LIKE
HILL NOT THAT FAR DISTANCE AND IT WAS FACING THE
TOWERS WITH THE AMBULANCE FACING THE TOWERS AND THATS WHEN TOOK ALL THE EQUIPMENT OUT TOLD HIM WILL
SEE YOU LATER WITH THE FIRST PATIENT AND WALKED DOWN TOWARDS THE TOWER WAS RIGHT IN FRONT OF IT WHEN ALL THAT STARTED HAPPENING REMEMBER INAUDIBLE
DIDNT KNOW WHERE HE WAS LOST HIM COMPLETELY
OKAY ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD OR COMMENT ON
UP
15

16
MARTINEZ
MR RADENBERG UKAY THE TIME IS NOW 13Z7 THIS WILL HE THE CONCLUSION OF THE INTERVIEW

FILE NO 9110495
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW EMT BENJAMIN BADILLO
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 24 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY ELISABETH NASON

THIS 2001
BADILLO
MR RADENBERG TODAY IS JANUARY 24 2002
IM PAUL RADENBERG OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENTS WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE CURRENTLY AT EMS
BATTALION 17 THE TIME IS NOW 1410 IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH
BADILLC EMT
MR BADILLO IS ASSIGNED TO EMS BATTALION 17
INTERVIEW IS REGARDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11
ALL RIGHT PRIOR TO GETTING THE ASSIGNMENT WE HAD JUST CAME OFF ANOTHER ASSIGNMENT WE WERE
LOCATED AT 176 STREET AND MORRIS AVENUE IN THE BRONX WHEN WE WENT AVAILABLE THEY TOLD US TO SWITCH TO
CITYWIDE FREQUENCY AND TO GO DOWNTOWN AND THEN AFTER
THAT ALL THE INFORMATION CAME IN VIA THE COMPUTER SO WE STARTED GOING DOWNTOWN TOOK THE
CROSS BRONX NO TOOK THE DEEGAN DOWN THE FDR AND ON THE WAY DOWN THERE THEY WERE JUST WHEN WE GOT CLOSE ENOUGH DONT REMEMBER AT WHAT POINT WE WERE AT BUT YOU COULD SEE THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ON FIRE AND ALL KINDS OF THINGS HAPPENING
WAS PRETTY MUCH HORRIFIED AS WELL AS MY
PARTNER COULDNT BELIEVE IT WAS ACTUALLY HAPPENING OR THAT WE WERE EVEN GOING DOWN THERE YOU SEE THINGS

BADILLO
LIKE THAT ON THE NEWS AND STUFF LIKE THAT BUT YOU DONT EXPECT TO BE IN IT
SO WE ARE DRIVING DOWN THE FDR WAS DRIVING MY PARTNER WAS JUST NAVIGATING AT THIS
POINT WE TAKE THE BATTERY PARK TUNNEL AND COME UP
TO IT WAS RIGHT HERE SOMEWHERE KNOW IT WAS RIGHT BEFORE VESEY PEDESTRIAN OKAY WE WERE BETWEEN THE
TWO TOWERS SO WE MADE TURN AND PARKED ON WEST STREET RIGHT OVER HERE
BY LIBERTY JUST NORTH OF LIBERTY
YES JUST NORTH OF LIBERTY AT THAT POINT WE WERE BEING DIRECTED BY STAGING OFFICER DONT
REMEMBER HIS NAME WE STARTED GETTING OUR EQUIPMENT TOGETHER ON TO THE STRETCHER AND EVERYTHING HELMET JACKETS EVERYTHING WE HAD WE PUT ON THE STRETCHER SO AS WE STARTED TO GO TO THE TRIAGE AREA THE STAGING OFFICER TOLD MY PARTNER EDDIE MARTINEZ TO TAKE ALL OF THE EQUIPMENT INCLUDING THE STRETCHER AND EVERYTHING
TO TRIAGE AND THE DRIVER HAD TO STAY WITH THE VEHICLE
SO STAYED WITH THE VEHICLE AND THATS PRETTY MUCH THE LAST SAW OF EDDIE THAT DAY
EDDIE WALKED WITH ALL THE EQUIPMENT AROUND
GC UND AND RNM BARK ARR TR
PARKED WE GOT UP TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WE GOT
STR

BADILLO
THE FIRST SECOND BUILDING RIGHT BETWEEN THE TWO TOWERS AND THAT WAS THE LAST SAW OF HIM SO WAS STANDING BY THE VEHICLE AM LOOKING AROUND AND SEE CARS JUST COUPLE OF CARS NOT MUCH AT THIS POINT DESTROYED AND COULD SEE SOME BODIES RIGHT BEFORE WE PARK TH TWC BUILDINGS LAYING ARC IN TH STREET AND RIGHT NEAR OUR VEHICLE YOU COULD SEE
DIDNT KNOW WHAT IT WAS AT FIRST THEN IM LOOKING AT
IT AND IT WAS JUST BODY PARTS JUST CHUNKS OF FLESH YOU KNOW JUST SPREAD OUT HERE AND THERE THAT WAS
LITTLE FREAKY HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THAT
DONT REMEMBER WHAT TIME WE GOT DOWN THERE KNOW IT WAS LITTLE AFTER NINE MAYBE 10 AFTER NINE 15 AFTER NINE IT WAS AROUND THERE
DONT REMEMBER EXACTLY KNOW THE FIRST FLIGHT HAD HIT DONT KNOW IF THE SECOND AIRLINER HAD HIT AT THAT POINT SO IM JUST SITTING AROUND AT THIS POINT
REALLY DIDNT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO BUT JUST WAIT ABOUT MINUTES AFTER JUST SITTING THERE
HEAR THIS REALLY BAD THUNDERING SOUND DIDNT KNOW WHAT IT WAS IT JUST SOUNDED LIKE THUNDER BUT IT WAS
LIKE DIFFERENT WHEN LOOK UP INTO THE SKY OUT OF
DONT KNOW WHAT MADE ME LOOK COULD SEE THE TOP OF THE BUILDING COMING DOWN PAUSED FOR
CURIOSITY

BADILLO
ABOUT SECOND OR TWO
WHEN
TO THE GROUND
JUST RUNNING INTO THE BUILDING SO DID THE SAME THING LIKE ANY REASONABLE PERSON WOULD DO TRYING TO SAV TH LIF RAN INSID DR KNR IF IT WAS THE MARRIOTT HOTEL OR DONT KNOW IF THE MARRIOTT IS SHOWN IN HERE
BELIEVE ITS IN HERE IT USED TO BE THE
VISTA
YES DONT REMEMBER IF IT WAS THE MARRIOTT OR THE BUILDING RIGHT NEXT TO IT BECAUSE THERE WERE TWO BUILDINGS RIGHT NEAR TO EACH OTHER BUT AS SOON AS
RAN INTO THE BUILDING TOOK RIGHT WAS JUST
TRYING TO GET AS DEEP INTO THE BUILDING AS COULD IN THE LOBBY FEW OFFICERS RAN IN THERE AND CIVILIANS
RAN IN THERE WITH US
AS SOON AS MADE THE RIGHT TRIED TO HIDE
UNDER SECURITY DESK AND YOU COULD JUST HEAR
EVERYTHING CAME DOWN AS SOON AS EVERYTHING CAME DOWN THE LOBBY AND THE LIGHTS THE LOBBY FILLED UP WITH
SMOKE AND DEBRIS THE LIGHTS WENT OFF YOU COULDNT
SEE ANYTHING IT WAS COMPLETELY DARK IT WAS REALLY LOUD NOISE CANT EVEN DESCRIBE IT BUT IT WAS
TOOK MY EYES OFF THE BUILDING AND BACK COULD SEE OFFICERS AND LOT OF PEOPLE

BADILLO
REALLY REALLY HORRIFIC NASTY NOISE
AS SOON AS THAT HAPPENED COULDNT
BREATHE ITS LIKE SMOKE AND DEBRIS FOR LONG TIME
MINUT WAS COULDNT TAKE
THE NEXT BREATH TOOK WAS FULL OF KNOW WASNT LIKE NOT BREATHING
WOULD SAY ABOUT 30 SECONDS TO MAYBE SRAR RR BR
TIME
EVERY DEEPER INTO MY LUNGS
BREATH IT WAS LOT COULDNT SEE ANYTHING WAS
OF THE
AND WAS ABLE STILL BURNING
TO
BREATHE
FINALLY TOOK LITTLE EASIER BUT
TOOK DEEP AFTER
BREATH GOING LITTLE BIT
BREATH FELT ALL THAT DEBRIS
FRIGHTENED AT THIS POINT LUCKILY SOME
REALLY
OFFICERS HAD FLASHLIGHTS SO WE FOUND OUR WAY
AS WE MADE OUR WAY BACK OUT TO THE LOBBY
THERE WAS SOME LIGHT AT THE OUTER PART OF THE LOBBY THERE WAS LIGHT THERE STILL WASNT TOO SURE ABOUT
WHERE WE WERE AT AT THIS POINT CALLED MY TRIEND MAURICE LEWIS HE IS ALSO AN EMT HERE AT BATTALION 17 TOLD HIM TO CONTACT MY FIANCE AND MY FAMILY AND TELL
THEM WHERE WAS AT AND TO GO HOME AND TRY TO CALM DOWN
LOOKED THE PHONES WERENT WORKING TOO WELL WE TRIED BUT COULDNT GET THROUGH WHEN WE
WALKED OUT FINALLY GOT OUT OF THE BUILDING DIDNT

BADILLO
KNOW WE WERE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING BECAUSE IT WAS COMPLETELY DARK NEXT THING KNOW HEARD LOUD SLAM
AND GIRL SCREAMING WHEN LOOKED BACK IT WAS GIRL FROM ONE OF THE PRIVATE AMBULANCE COMPANIES
JUMPING OUT THE BACK DOOR OF HER AMBULANCE SCREAMING SRAR AT THIS PRDNT WAS SRAR FR
OUT FOR BRIEF MOMENT GUESS ANYBODY WOULD RIGHT
BUT CAME TO MY SENSES PRETTY QUICKLY WAS LIKE REALLY HAVE TO CALM DOWN AND GET OUT OF
HERE SO THIS GIRL PULLS ME AND AN OFFICER AND SHE SAYS OH PLEASE COME AND CHECK ON MY PARTNER HE IS SITTING IN THE FRONT DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM BUT HE IS LAYING ON THE SIDE WE WENT TO GO CHECK ON HIM AND HE WAS JUST REALLY BADLY BURNED IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT HE WAS DEAD NOTHING WE COULD DO SO WE KEPT ON WALKING
WE KEPT ON WALKING SOUTH TOWARDS BATTERY PARK ON THE WAY DONT KNOW HOW MUCH TIME HAD
PASSED BEFORE THE SECOND COLLAPSE BUT WE KEPT WAS
OKAY PHYSICALLY AT THIS POINT WAS BREATHING BETTER AND COULD ACTUALLY SEE MY WAY AROUND GOT ON THE
RADIO WAS SCREAMING FOR MY PARTNER YOU KNOW TRIED TO GO IN THERE AND LOOK FOR HIM BUT IT WAS TOO

BADILLO
DARK THERE WAS EVEN MORE DEBRIS WHERE HE WAS AT STARTED SCREAMING HIS NAME BUT THERE WAS NOTHING
COULD DO SO
SOME PEOPLE WE ALL GOT ON ONE OF THE BIG MTA BUSSES TH RITY BUSS AND FR SC ANR
DIDNT GET KICKED OUT BUT SOMEBODY SAID WE GOT TO GET OUT OF THE BUS OR WHATEVER SO WE GOT OUT THE BUS HELD THIS GIRL CLOSE TO ME TO MAKE SURE SHE WAS OKAY BECAUSE SHE WAS IN BAD SHAPE WE WERE HELPING SOME PEOPLE OUT THERE WERE LOT OF PEOPLE WITH BROKEN ARMS AND LEGS SO WE WERE TRYING TO HELP THEM OUT THE BEST WE COULD LOT OF CONFUSION YOU KNOW REALLY DIDNT KNOW WHAT TO DO NEXT THERE WAS NO DIRECTION
THERE WAS NOBODY TELLING YOU WHAT TO DO EVERYTHING WAS DESTROYED
THE TIRST THOUGHT ON MY MIND IS WHERE IS THE TRAIN STATION SO CAN GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE AND GO
JUST KEPT WALKING
ON THE WAY DOWN WE JUST KEPT RUNNING INTO
HOME
THEN
THERE
THERE
STEFFENS CHIEF MARK STEFFENS THE LIEUTENANT
ALWAYS HAVE HARD TIME WITH HIS NAME BUT HE WAS ONE
BUT THEN AGAIN
KNEW COULDNT GO HOME SO
REMEMBER SEEING WAS CHIEF AND
COMMAND CAR DRIVING LIEUTENANT AND AN EMT IN
FORGET THE CHIEFS NAME IT WAS MARK
AROUND AND

BADILLO
OF MY ORIGINAL INSTRUCTORS DONT EVEN REMEMBER ANYBODY ELSES NAME
THEY TOLD ME TO GET INSIDE THE VEHICLE AND ABOUT TWO MINUTES LATER WE MADE TURN HEADING SOUTH BECAUSE HE WAS COMING UP NORTH AND THEN HE MADE
SR DR TR
TURN GRDNG AGAIN BATT
PARK AND COULD HEAR THE SECOND RUMBLE AND ALREADY KNEW
WHAT IT WAS KNEW IT WAS THE SECOND BUILDING COLLAPSING
JUST STARTED SCREAMING INSIDE THE VEHICLE WAS LIKE GET THE YOU KNOW GET OUT OF HERE LETS
GO LETS GO HE WAS DOING HIS BEST BUT THERE WERE PEOPLE RUNNING ALL OVER THE PLACE YOU CANT RUN
PEOPLE OVER
WE MADE IT DOWN TO BATTERY PARK WE ARE
LOOKING OUTSIDE THE WINDOWS AND YOU COULD SEE ALL THE ASHES AND DEBRIS AND ALL KINDS OT STUTT JUST GOING ALL THE WAY DOWN IT LOOKED LIKE FROM WHAT HAVE SEEN ON TV YOU KNOW WHEN VOLCANOS ERUPT AND THE ASHES GO ALL OVER THE PLACE AND IT IS RAINING AND SNOWING ASHES IT LOOKED LIKE THAT IT WAS VERY VERY SCARY
PEOPLE WERE HIDING AT THE TAKING COVER SHELTER BY THE FORT DOWN THERE OR SOMETHING THERE IS
SOMETHING DOWN THERE NEAR BATTERY PARK THATS WHERE

BADILLO
LOT OF PEOPLE RETREATED TO WE WERE DOWN THERE FOR ABOUT AN HOUR OR TWO AFTERWARDS
WHEN IT CLEARED OUT WE WERE HELPING PEOPLE EVACUATE ON THE BOATS GOING TO JERSEY WAS ASKING ANYONE IF THEY HAVE SEEN MY PARTNER REMEMBER KAREN LAMANNA FRR BATTAL‰N 14 SH SAID THAT SH HAD SAW HIM WITH ANOTHER MEDIC
AFTER THAT WE KIND OF JUST HUNG OUT DOWN
THERE FOR WHILE WE GOT EVERYBODY OUT WE MOVED OVER TO THE STATEN ISLAND FERRY WHERE ALL THE PEOPLE LOAD UP TO TAKE THE TERRY AND STUTT THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH THE REST OF THE DAY THERE STAYED THERE FOR ABOUT TWO HOURS AND THEN MANAGED TO SNEAK AWAY THEY DIDNT WANT ME LEAVING BUT WAS COVERED IN DUST COULDNT BREATHE VERY WELL WAS SPITTING UP LOT OF BLACK STUFF JUNKY STUFF
SO SNUCK AWAY WITH SAW MIKE KENNA WHO IS ALSO AN EMT HERE AND CHARLIE VITALE SNUCK AWAY
10

BADILLO
WITH THEM JUST LOOKING AROUND WE WERE WALKING AROUND
DONT REMEMBER EXACTLY WHAT STREETS KNOW WE WENT AROUND THE WHOLE WORLD
TRADE CENTER
YOU COULD SEE DONT KNOW WHICH TOWER WAS
IT THINK IT WAS TH NRTR SAW TH NR
TOWER JUST LIKE WHAT WAS LEFT OF IT JUST BURNING AND LOT OF FIRE THERE WAS ASHES EVERYWHERE
EVERYWHERE DONT KNOW HOW FAR THIS THING WENT BUT IT WAS REALLY BAD
WALKING AROUND WE CAME OUT TO RECTOR STREET WE SAW ONE OF THE LANDING GEARS FROM THE
AIRPLANE WAS TRYING TO LOOK FOR MY VEHICLE BECAUSE BY THIS TIME IT HAD CLEARED UP LOT SO YOU COULD SEE
LOT WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE EXACTLY WAS COULDNT FIND MY VEHICLE MEAN EVERYTHING
WAS DESTROYED CANT SAY IT ENOUGH
WE WALKED AROUND KEPT RUNNING INTO
PEOPLE RAN INTO FELIX HERNANDEZ ANOTHER EMT HERE AT THE BATTALION THERE WAS LOT OF PEOPLE SAW THE CHIEF OF EMS ROBERT MCCRACKEN HE WAS TELLING US TO RETREAT BACK TO THE TRIAGE AREA AT THE STATEN ISLAND FERRY BUT DIDNT LISTEN JUST KEPT WALKING
AROUND LIKE KNEW WHAT JUST HAPPENED WHAT WAS GOING
WE JUST LIKE WE TOOK BUT
THIS LITTLE
SQUARE
11

BADILLO
ON BUT FELT VERY CONFUSED LOST IT WAS BAD FEELING JUST DIDNT KNOW MY WAY
AT THIS POINT OKAY WE ARE STILL WALKING AROUND AND WE ARE JUST RUNNING INTO LOT OF BODY PARTS
AND WE RAN INTO
PERSONS TORSO JUST NO LEGS NO
NR
RH
WE WERE TAGGING BODY PARTS WHATEVER WE COULD FIND
NC ARMS
AND
LIKE 15 FEET AWAY FOUND HEAD TO GO DONT MEAN TO BE SO GRAPHIC BUT
THEN TO THE TORSO
JUST
WOULD JUST LIKE TO DESCRIBE WHATEVER SAW IT WAS
JUST THE BRAINS HANGING OUT OF THE SKULL JUST
COMPLETELY FLAPPING OVER LIKE YOU JUST OPENED UP CAN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT OUT OF CURIOSITY DONT KNOW WHY BUT JUST PUT ON PAIR OF GLOVES AND PICKED IT UP JUST STARTED MOVING IT AROUND AND YOU COULD SEE THE FACE AND EVERYTHING BUT IT WAS ALL CRUSHED AND EVERYTHING NO TACIAL BONES NO EYES NOTHING SO WE TAGGED IT AND WE WENT ALONG
BY THIS TIME THE CHIEF FOUND ME HE CAUGHT UP TO ME AND SAID GET BACK TO WAS LIKE OKAY BY
THAT TIME LATER ON FEW HOURS LATER BACK AT THE FERRY FOUND OUT THAT EDDIE WAS TAKEN TO NEW JERSEY MEDICAL CENTER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT THAT HE WAS GOING TO BE OKAY AND SO THAT WAS LITTLE AND HAD
STR AR
12

BADILLO
GOTTEN IN CONTACT WITH SOME OF MY FAMILY MEMBERS THEY WERE REALLY NERVOUS
JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY WAS HOME MY SON CALLED HIM UP KIDS DONT KNOW ANY
BETTER JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE HE WAS OKAY STAY TH UNTIL ABR 11 RRLR AT NIGHT GR RIDE BACK TO THE BRONX AND RIGHT BACK HERE TO THE
BATTALION IT WAS REALLY ROUGH LONG
DAY AND WAS
REALLY
STRESSED OUT
IM WALKING INTO THE DOOR AND
LOOKING AT ME LIKE WHATEVER JUST GOT
ZONE OR SOMETHING WAS LITERALLY COVERED FROM HEAD TO TOE IT WAS IN MY UNDERWEAR IT WAS IN MY SHIRT IN ANY MY EARS EVERYWHERE SO LOOKED PRETTY BAD
JUMPED IN MY CAR AND WENT FIANCE LIVE WITH MY FIANCE SHE WAS STARTED WATCHING THE NEWS AND SAW THE
HOME MY PRETTY GOOD PLANES HITTING
THE TOWERS DIDNT KNOW IT WAS LIKE THE WORST PART
OF THE WHOLE DAY COULDNT BELIEVE THEY ACTUALLY GOT THAT ON CAMERA AND COULDNT BELIEVE JUST SEEING IT
THEN GOT SOME MORE BAD NEWS THE NEXT DAY THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH THE END OF THE DAY AFTER THAT DIDNT WANT TO COME TO WORK THE NEXT DAY BUT BEING THAT WAS PHYSICALLY OKAY THEY MADE ME COME FOR
13
PEOPLE ARE JUST OUT OF WAR

BADILLO
ANOTHER 12 HOURS WHICH IS ALL RIGHT
THE NEXT DAY JUST HEARD THAT ONE OF THE
FIREFIGHTERS WHO USED TO BE AN EMT HECTOR TIRADO WAS MISSING AND PRETTY MUCH CONSIDERED DEAD AT THIS
POINT THEN ANOTHER GOOD FRIEND OF MINE SHE WAS AN EMT FR ST BARNABAS IM UT THAT
SHE WAS BECAUSE
REALLY
CONFIRMED DEAD THAT REALLY HURT LOT
KNEW IMELDA FOR QUITE FEW YEARS
SHE WAS
NICE YOUNG LADY
LIEUTENANT INAUDIBLE HE SAW WAS KIND OF
DISTURBED BY ALL THIS HE PUT US OUT OF SERVICE AND HE
SUGGESTED THAT GO TALK TO PSYCHIATRIST AT JACOBI EMERGENCY ROOM TOOK FEW DAYS OFF MEAN CAME IN BUT JUST KIND OF HUNG OUT AT THE STATION
DIDNT WANT TO BE BOTHERED WITH DOING 911 CALLS OR NOTHING NOTHING JUST DIDNT WANT TO DO
IT WAS
PRETTY
TELT PRETTY GOOD BUT IT JUST KEPT COMING BACK HAVING TROUBLE SLEEPING TO THIS POINT FEEL
GOOD DONT THINK ABOUT IT AS MUCH
GUESS DONT KNOW IF ITS FROM THE WORLD
TRADE CENTER EVENTS BUT STILL HAVE SOME TROUBLE SLEEPING HAVE SPOKEN TO SOME COUNSELOR
PSYCHIATRIST IT HELPED LOT TO SEE THAT MY PARTNER WAS ALIVE AND OKAY SO THANK GOD FOR THAT
14

AND FELT
BADILLO
THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH IT THE THINGS
SAW
OKAY WHEN YOU GUYS FIRST GOT IN TO LIBERTY AND WEST IT WAS ABOUT UP HERE THAT YOU HAD PARKED THE
SC
DO YOU KNOW WHERE THE TRIAGE AREA THAT EDDIE
WAS HEADED FOR WAS
HEARD IT WAS CHURCH AND VESEY BUT VESEY IS
UP HERE DONT KNOW HOW KNOW EDDIE WALKED BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDINGS
HE WENT INTO THE PLAZA ITSELF
YES THE PLAZA ITSELF THATS THE LAST THATS THE LAST THATS WHERE HE WAS HEADED BUT
DONT KNOW VESEY IS KIND OF FAR UP HERE WHERE IS CHURCH YES VESEY AND CHURCH DONT KNOW IF THEY HAD ANOTHER TRIAGE AREA IN THE PLAZA ITSELT BECAUSE THERE WERE LOT OF VEHICLES PARKED AROUND THE BUILDINGS AND THE TOWERS AND STUFF THATS THE LAST SAW OR HEARD
OKAY ANYTHING ELSE YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD
NO JUST THANK GOD IM HERE TO TELL THE STORY IT WAS THE SCARIEST THING HAVE EVER SEEN IN
MY LIFE NEVER IMAGINED TO BE INVOLVED LIKE SAID
BUS SOMEWHERE
PIGHT BY
15

BADILLO
EARLIER YOU SIT AT HOME YOU WATCH THESE HORRIBLE STORIES ON TV AND YOU READ ABOUT THEM IN THE NEWSPAPER
SO MANY DEATHS SO MANY LIVES DESTROYED AND TO ACTUALLY FEEL LIKE THAT IM PART OF HISTORY YOU KNOW
JUST CANT BELIEVE THAT WAS THERE
THAT WAS TH TR THIS DAY STILL
RR
CANT BELIEVE IT OTHER THAN THAT IM DOING PRETTY
GOOD THESE DAYS TRYING TO GET EVERYTHING BACK ON TRACK
MR RADENBERG GOOD OKAY THANK YOU THE TIME IS NOW 1434 THIS IS THE CONCLUSION OF THE INTERVIEW
16
File No. 9110496
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
     PARAMEDIC CAMILLE MARRONCELLI
   Interview Date:  January 24, 2002
Transcribed by Elisabeth F. Nason
C. MARRONCELLI
2
          MR. RADENBERG:  Today is January 24, 2002.
     I'm Paul Radenberg of the Fire Department's World
     Trade Center Task Force.  I'm currently at EMS
     Battalion 20.  The time is now 1534.
     Q.   I'm conducting an interview with --
     A.   Paramedic Camille Marroncelli, Battalion 20.
     Q.   This interview is regarding the events of
September 11, 2001.  Could you begin with when you were
assigned.
     A.   Actually, we were assigned -- we got on to
the West Side Highway as the second plane hit the
second tower.  We had just gotten on to the West Side
Highway from the Cross Bronx and my partner was -- he
was monitoring the radio.  I was trying to get through
traffic going down there.  He said a second plane hit
the second tower.  We hit a lot of traffic going down
there so we were delayed.  Our response time was
delayed.
          We finally arrived down there and we took
West Street going down.  It was clear, the West Side
Highway was cleared from, I think it was 79 Street when
they shut it down, so we were clear all the way down,
going straight on down.  As soon as you could see the
towers from the highway, as soon as we could -- we got
C. MARRONCELLI
3
them in our eyesight, we could see that they were both
burning.  We kind of both wondered what we were driving
into at that point.
          We got down, like I said, we went down West
Street and we got down as far as, I'm not sure, we were
probably around maybe 6, 7 blocks from the towers.  I
don't know exactly the cross street location that we
were at, but there were maybe 10 ambulances down there
before us, but most of them were Metro Care units and
Hatzolah units were down there.  There was maybe two or
three other Fire Department EMS units down there.
          There were no Lieutenants, no bosses, we
couldn't find anybody.  We pulled up right where all
the other ambulances were.  Unfortunately, they were
all facing the towers.  I thought it was kind of odd
that they would be facing the disaster.  In the event
that we had to get out, they had no egress.
          Finally one of the bosses pulled up.  I don't
even remember what his name was.  We were trying to get
organized and he asked who was the senior person.  It
happened to be me there.  I have a lot of years on the
job.  He stated to me that you are in charge of staging
and triage.  I said okay, fine.  I had done some mock
drills when I had been a boss in '95 in Manhattan and I
C. MARRONCELLI
4
had no problem with taking command of staging.
          I just directed all the units to get in the
vehicles and turn them around so we would be facing
away from the towers.  We were in the process of doing
this and that's when the first building came down.
Most of the people that were in the ambulances trying
to move them just continued driving up West Street.  I
was on foot.
          I jumped into the back of a Metro Care
ambulance, as a matter of fact, and directed the driver
to just drive, but what happened at that point was that
the cloud that came up West Street, it just engulfed
the vehicle, so we had to stop.  Unfortunately for me,
they left me in the vehicle.  Everybody was scared.  It
was just everybody was so frightened, it was like
survival of the fittest at that point.
          When I was able to finally get out of the
vehicle, you still couldn't see, because it hadn't
dissipated that much.  It kind of like shuffled along
until this cloud dissipated and you kind of jumped into
action, because it was pretty hard to miss a paramedic
on the back of your uniform.  Everybody was coughing
and couldn't see.  I kind of sort of directed people to
the ambulance units that were there.  I directed them
C. MARRONCELLI
5
to get all their sterile water, take it out and kind of
showed some of the people how to irrigate their eyes
and stuff and gave people direction, tried to elicit
bystanders to help and so on and so forth.
          I had to separate from my partner.  I don't
know where he went.  We were just like -- everybody was
in a fog at that point.  Maybe 5 minutes had passed and
I got my partner and we were trying to make some
semblance of order.  Look for a supervisor, find out
what was going on, what we needed to do, where we
needed to be.
          Shortly after the first building came down,
the second building collapsed, but at that point we
were further up West Street, because we had moved from
the first collapse, so we did the same thing.  We got
into the ambulance and we drove further up West
Street.  I don't know.  We were there.  It was just a
lot of -- it was madness, it was confusion and it was
-- I'm sorry, because it's --
          We were directed at that point, not really at
that point, but a while later, because there was just
nobody to kind of give us orders where to go.  When
things settled a little bit they directed everybody to
go to Chelsea Piers.  So all the units went up there
C. MARRONCELLI
6
and that's when they -- I mean we sat there.  We sat
there and we didn't do anything because there was no
way for anybody to do anything.  We couldn't near the
buildings, we couldn't get near the rubble because of
the smoke and the fire and everything else that was
going on, so we just -- it was just a feeling of
feeling helpless at that point.
          Everybody was eager to do stuff, but there
was nothing really to do on our end.  From what I
understand from speaking with people afterwards, people
who were on the other end had transported patients and
so on and so forth, but we didn't have any patients
until very much later on, when we transported some
firefighters, but that was not until like when the
third building fell, which was way later on.
     Q.   About 5 o'clock?
     A.   Yes.  5 o'clock.  It was in the evening, but
from the point that the second tower collapsed until
that point, we were down in Chelsea Piers.  I mean they
brought us into -- near Stuyvesant High School.  I
don't remember what time it was.  Maybe sometime in the
afternoon they brought us down there and they made us
sit there in case we needed to -- as I said, we wound
up transporting 5 firefighters.  They had minor
C. MARRONCELLI
7
injuries.
          I don't know what else to tell you other than
that it was very unorganized and it didn't get
organized even into the evening over there with who was
going to do what and how they were going to transport
the patients and any kind of organization.  They said
set up Chelsea Piers at that point as a disaster area
and it was like a mock hospital and they had everything
and anything you needed in there, but still it wasn't
being utilized, because we couldn't get anybody out
from the towers and what not.
          Other than that, I don't know what else I
could tell you that would be helpful with regard to
what happened.  I'm probably missing stuff because I'm
not -- maybe there is stuff that I don't want to
remember.  I don't know.  It was -- as time goes on --
it's been what, almost 4 months now.
     Q.   4 and a half months.
     A.   4 and a half months now, but it's still very
hard to talk about it, because it's just -- especially
with people on this job that have -- I don't know.  I
was born and raised in New York and I grew up when they
were building the towers.  We used to travel to Staten
Island when I was a kid and we used to take the FDR
C. MARRONCELLI
8
Drive down to where the ferry is and that's where we
used to take the ferry and as a kid I grew up with
watching these things being built.
          Just the whole idea of those things coming
down, it's still to this day it's very disturbing.
It's still pretty -- I mean I know it happened, but
when I go down to the city, it seems like almost like
you are in a dream.  I'm in a dream when I see that
they are not there.  So to talk about it is difficult.
I never thought that I would be a part of such a bad
part of history in this country.
          I mean on the job, it's a hard job sometimes,
and I'm part of a lot of the things that happened
because I help people.  That's a good thing.  Maybe I
was able to help somebody.  That's good.  But to be
there and to not have been able to do anything because
of the situation, it was very disheartening, because
you train for a long time to be there at a time when
you are most needed in a disaster.
          Unfortunately it was beyond anybody's
control, what you could and couldn't do.  I have been
to all these drills and it's just very different when
it's real.  It's just everybody, like everything goes
out the window and people just -- I mean because of the
C. MARRONCELLI
9
extent of that catastrophe, how big it was, there were
just so many people that couldn't make any sense of it,
let alone act.  It was just -- mentally and emotionally
it was that disturbing, that it was so hard to kind of
like get your thoughts together.
          You react because it's second nature on this
job and that's the only reason why people -- a lot of
people rose to the occasion, because it is second
nature.  If you stood there and really had to think
about what you had to do, you would have been more
paralyzed than you were, because that's the time to act
and not contemplate.  Later on it's going to really
kind of -- you contemplate it and it just becomes very
disturbing; all the images and the images that we saw
when we got down there; people jumping out of the
building and it just seemed very unreal, but it wasn't,
unfortunately.  It wasn't unreal.
     Q.   Who were you working with that day?
     A.   I was working with Richie Natal.
     Q.   Is he an EMT?
     A.   He's a paramedic.
     Q.   When you first got down in the area, you said
you were like about 6 blocks north of the Center on the
west side.  Do you remember what, aside from the
C. MARRONCELLI
10
ambulances, do you remember any other buildings that
were around there, that might be like a landmark?
     A.   No, no.  All I saw were ambulances and fire
trucks and apparatus and police cars and that's all I
was like concentrating on, with all that excitement,
because you get very caught up in the adrenaline.  You
just get very caught up with what is going on.  Things
that aren't really -- and I guess it was, things on the
periphery really weren't important, because you had
these two huge structures in front of you that were
just -- that's where your eyes were.  All eyes were on
those buildings.  You just couldn't take your eyes off
those buildings.  So whatever was around me, I really
couldn't tell you.
     Q.   The other Department ambulances that were in
the area, did you recognize anybody that was part of
the crews from those units?
     A.   From the voluntaries?
     Q.   No, from the Department, the EMS ambulances.
     A.   Yes, there was one of the Battalion 15
units.  I think it was 15 Boy was there.  There was
another medic unit there, but I don't remember who they
were.  I don't remember them at all.  They might have
been from Queens or something, but there was definitely
C. MARRONCELLI
11
another -- because a lot of people from the station
were assigned.  Maybe we were one of the first arriving
units down there because we volunteered.
          My partner Richie is a bit of a buff.  He was
like let's go, let's go.  I was like all right, let's
go.  Not to think that it would be something as
catastrophic as this.  A lot of Jacobi units were
there.  As I said, the only one that I recognized was
this other unit, 15 Boy.  It is an EMT unit.
     Q.   The Lieutenant that arrived there, you said
you didn't recognize him at all?
     A.   No, I don't remember who it was.
     Q.   Any idea where he went after he put you in
charge of staging and triage?
     A.   I have no idea.  It was just, it seemed like,
because there was so much to do, because everybody was
just running around like chickens without heads.  There
was no semblance of order.  It was trying to get people
to -- a group of people to do the same thing for the
same purpose, because it was very hard to get people
organized.
          They kind of parked their vehicles there and
I don't know where they went, these people, so we had
to get them to like -- because you couldn't move this
C. MARRONCELLI
12
vehicle unless this vehicle was -- do you know what I'm
saying?  So we are trying to get everybody to move
their vehicles.
     Q.   All blocked in?
     A.   Yes.  They were all facing the towers.  If we
had patients, we need to be going in the other
direction.  But no, I don't know where he went.  He had
his hands full, as did everybody else at that point in
time.
     Q.   Anything else you would like to add?
     A.   No, other than I don't know, I think that
there are a lot of the EMTs and paramedics that were
down there were -- had every good intention.  This is
what we go to school for.  This is what we train for,
to take care of the sick and injured, and
unfortunately, we were utilized, but not to the effect
that we wanted to be, because circumstances that were
beyond our control, but we were there ready and willing
to serve and I think that for myself, being down there
as early as I was and seeing the whole thing transpire
before my eyes, if we could have done more, we would
have.
          I think that a lot of times we are just not
given the credit.  Just being there and having to
C. MARRONCELLI
13
experience something like that.  People should get
credit for that.  Nobody should have to see something
like that in their lifetime.  It doesn't leave you.  It
stays with you.  Hopefully people use it in a good
way.  Something good could come out of this, the way
people view things, then it wasn't all in vain.
          Unfortunately we lost a lot of people, the
Department lost a lot of people and the world in
general lost a lot with that event.  Especially the
people in New York.  Especially people that are native
New Yorkers, that grew up in the city and feel like
they helped to make the city what it is today.
          So it's part of like your -- it's your home.
You feel like you were violated.  You take it
personally.  I took it personally.  I think a lot of
people that don't live in New York that feel as they do
for the city.  There is a lot of people that work for
the city.  Civil servants.  Obviously we love our jobs,
because it's not the best paying job in the world, but
there is more to jobs than being the best paying job in
the world and when you are a civil servant in New York,
I mean there are a lot of people in New York that you
have to take care of.
          That's part of what I guess the love for the
C. MARRONCELLI
14
city is, just being there to do what you are supposed
to do when you are called upon.  I think everybody that
was from this Department, from EMS did their job and a
lot of people did above and beyond their jobs.
          MR. RADENBERG:  Time is now 1554.  This will
     be the conclusion of the interview.
File No. 9110497
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
             RUSS STROEBEL
   Interview Date:  January 25, 2002
Transcribed by Maureen McCormick
2
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today's date is
     January 25, 2002.  The time is 1130 hours.
          This is B. C. Frank Congiusta of the safety
     division of the New York City Fire Department.
          I'm conducting an interview with the
     following individual.
     Q.   Please state your name.
     A.   Lieutenant Russell Stroebel, Engine 278.
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Of the Fire
     Department of the City of New York.
          We are at the quarters of Engine 278.  This
     interview is regarding events of September 11,
     2001.
     Q.   Russ, please in your own words describe what
happened that day.
     A.   Okay, I was assigned to -- I was working in
Engine Company 246 that day.  We got relocated to
Engine Company 234 now.  We just came in around 9:30 or
so.  So we relocated to the quarters of Engine 234, and
then about maybe quarter to ten we got dispatched to
respond to the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel on a fifth alarm
assignment, so we were making our way down there, and
there were a lot of people when we got to the Brooklyn
Bridge coming off the Brooklyn Bridge evacuating
R. STROEBEL
3
Manhattan, so we stopped there momentarily to find
out -- or to gain any information from the police that
were on the scene, and there was a report of the tunnel
collapsing, so we waited there to see if it was --
could be substantiated, and I asked the dispatcher if
he wanted us to respond via the Brooklyn Bridge.  He
said just stand fast, and see what we can find out.
          So after a few minutes, we ended up
continuing to go to the tunnel.  We got to the Brooklyn
Battery Tunnel on the fifth alarm assignment, and we
were there a few minutes, and then we got ordered to go
back to the Brooklyn Bridge to respond via the Brooklyn
Bridge, so we went with other fire apparatus to the
Brooklyn Bridge, and then they wanted us to go over the
bridge at well-spaced intervals, which we did.
          So we ended up going over caravan fashion,
and we went down Broadway to -- past City Hall, and we
parked the apparatus somewhere around there, got off
the rig and took CFR-D supplies, and we made our way
down towards the towers, which I believe both had
already collapsed.
          We went into -- this is 5 World Trade
Center?  And we assisted in -- actually, we ended up
getting some extinguishers -- the 42 chief, I believe
R. STROEBEL
4
it was the 42.  I'm not a hundred percent sure, but we
were operating with them, and he had ordered us to
round up any extinguishers we could, because there was
a civilian trapped in the -- I guess it was in the
basement part, because we went in the 1st Floor down
the escalator, one story, and he was trapped in some
debris from the collapse, and there were small pockets
of fire there.
          So we went out and got some extinguishers,
what we could find, came back, and we were putting out
the pockets of fire while the truck company was
disentangling the civilian.  They put him on the Stokes
stretcher.  We had CFR-D supplies.  We put oxygen on
him, and he was heavy, and ended up assisting pulling
him up.  They used a utility rope or a life rope, and
they pulled him up the stairs and got him out.
          After that, we got separated from the chief,
and basically were looking to find out what we could do
to help, so we came back out and went back to the rig,
and then we supplied an engine that was supplying the
tower ladder putting out fire, and they were moving.
          We ended up -- we were there till about ten
after three at night.  We did some other things, just
assisting with some hose stretching, whatever.  It was
R. STROEBEL
5
a little disorganized in terms of orders were given,
and people were going back, and there was water supply
problems, pressure problems.
          Then was it 7 World Trade Center?
     Q.   Yes, collapsed.
     A.   That collapsed.
     Q.   Around five o'clock.
     A.   They had figured they knew that building was
going to come down.  It was just a question of time,
and everybody was awaiting that.
          When that came down, we were in a safe area
in the building.  The last thing we ended up doing was
relieving Engine 47.  It was supplying the rig that was
on -- I think it was on West Street for whatever
building that was in the back there that was burning.
          Chief Esposito was running that sector down
there, and so we were there basically until we got
relieved about ten after three.
     Q.   Anything else you want to say?
     A.   I think, you know, just the tough part was,
you know, everybody did what they could do.  The tough
part for me was just basically trying to maintain some
sort of command structure and accountability, so the
chiefs knew where I was, and I knew where my men were,
R. STROEBEL
6
and that was -- because we lost the chiefs that we
lost, that was weak.  I mean, that made it difficult to
try to -- like I said, I just didn't want to go out and
do whatever.  I wanted basically to feel like I was
operating under a sector.
          BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Thanks a lot for
     your cooperation.
          The time is 11:40, and that concludes this
     interview.
File No. 9110499
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
      FIREFIGHTER WILLIAM CIMILLO
   Interview Date:  January 24, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
W. CIMILLO 2
          CHIEF KEMLY:  This is Battalion Chief
     Ronald Kemly.  Today's date is January 24th,
     2002.  The time is 1350.  I'm conducting an
     interview with the following individual,
     Firefighter William Cimillo of Ladder
     Company 49, from the Fire Department, City
     of New York.  The interview is taking place
     in the quarters of Engine 68 in the Bronx,
     regarding the events of September 11th,
     2001.
     Q.   Would you please tell me what happened
to you on September 11th, 2001.
     A.   I was working on the engine for a guy,
one of the members here, who went away.  We had
an accident on the Degan.  About 8:30 in the
morning.  We came back approximately quarter to
9, when they sent us right back out.  We noticed
on TV that there was an incident down at the
World Trade Center.  We heard something over the
radio, but we didn't know exactly what it was.
When we got here, we realized what had happened
was a plane had hit the World Trade Center.
          They sent us, 68 Engine, down to -- we
originally thought we were going all the way down
W. CIMILLO 3
to the World Trade Center, they sent us to a
staging area at 35 Engine in Manhattan.  We got
there and were there for maybe five minutes.  A
bunch of Bronx companies were there, about five
of us, five companies:  83, ours, 64, somebody
else.  I don't know who it was.
          When we got there, we were there for
five minutes.  They sent us right down, right
down to the World Trade Center, on the west side.
We responded down there.  It took us a little
while to get down there.
          On the way down there, the first
building had come down.  We had no idea that the
first building had come down at that point.  We
were on the rig.  We heard something about a
collapse, but everybody was thinking that it was
just a floor or whatever.
          We had no idea the first building had
come down, or even that that first building was
-- ah, that the second building was struck by a
plane.  We had no idea.
          We get down to West Street, and there
was emergency vehicles everywhere.  So we had to
park maybe eight blocks away.  I'm estimating
W. CIMILLO 4
about eight blocks away.
          We grabbed our gear.  We looked up and
saw how much fire was in tower two, which was the
building that got struck first.  Since we were on
the west side and that was the north tower,
that's the building we could see clearly.  We saw
fire everywhere.
          So we started grabbing our rollups.  We
figured we were going to hump -- have to put out
some of the fire, realizing we're going to have
to walk up numerous flights.  We put our masks
on, we grabbed our rollups, grabbed all our tools
that we knew we were gonna need and proceeded to
walk down West Street.  As I said, we were parked
pretty far back because there were so many
emergency vehicles there.
          I guess in the time it took us to go
from 35 Engine to where we were, tower one had
already collapsed, which we had no idea that that
building was even down at that point.  Nobody
translated anything to us what had happened.
          We were walking down there.  They're
like, "You're going into tower two.  Get up as
far as you can and help out."  We're walking down
W. CIMILLO 5
the block.  We get to about -- less than half a
block away from tower two, and I just remember
looking up and the top of the building just
teetered and I saw the radio tower wobble and the
whole building just came down on top of everybody
that was there.
          There were companies that I don't know
who they were that were 30 yards ahead of us that
were a little bit unfortunate because they got
caught.  We were just further up behind to turn
around.  There had to be about 50 of us turned
and ran in every direction we possibly can to
save our lives.
          The whole building came down.  We got
engulfed with that plume of smoke and debris and
clouds, the cloud of dust.  I finally made it
into the lobby of a building, I think up by
Stuyvesant High School.
          I met up with the lieutenant and
started looking for the members I was with.  It
took us about an hour or so to find everybody.
Thank God everybody was all right.
          We went back down afterwards.  We
dropped all our equipment when we ran,
W. CIMILLO 6
everything.  Everything we had in our hands, we
just dropped we lost our masks, our rollups,
everything.  So we had no equipment at that time.
          We went down to see what else we could
do, but it was complete mayhem at that point.
Then we went back to Stuyvesant High School and
met up with everybody, and they just told us stay
here, stay here, stay here.  And we stayed there
the rest of the day.
     Q.   Those companies that were in front of
you, could they have been some of those Bronx
companies that responded with you?
     A.   I'm not sure.  I really can't tell.
There were so many guys there and too many
companies.  Basically the Bronx companies that
responded, we stayed in a group as we went down,
because we all responded at the same time.  We
stayed in a group, and we were walking down West
Street.  We were just about to enter the building
when it came down on top of us.
     Q.   Who was your lieutenant that you
said --
     A.   Lieutenant Zanat.
     Q.   And he basically stayed with you the
W. CIMILLO 7
rest of the day too?
     A.   Pretty much, yes.
     Q.   Okay.  Unless you have something
further, if you remember anybody else that was
there that you saw.
     A.   The usual stuff.  You see guys you know
when you respond to these things.  Other than
that -- it was just complete chaos.
     Q.   Okay.  If you have any else -- if you
don't, then the interview is over.
     A.   That's it.
     Q.   Okay.  Thank you.
     A.   Thank you.
File No. 9110500
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER MICHAEL BYRNE
   Interview Date:  January 21, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
M. BYRNE 2
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today's date is January
     21st, 2002.  The time is 1:48 p.m.   This is
     Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan of the Safety
     Battalion of the Fire Department of the City
     of New York.  I'm conducting an interview
     with Firefighter Mike Byrne from --
          What company?
          FIREFIGHTER BYRNE:  Engine 21.
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  -- Engine 21 in the
     quarters of --
          FIREFIGHTER BYRNE:  Engine 16.
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  -- Engine 16.
     Q.   Mike, just tell us the events as you
recall them from September 11th.
     A.   We got the ticket after the second
plane hit.  We went down and parked on Church and
Vesey off from the north tower under that
pedestrian walkway.  We went into the tower, we
were in the lobby a couple minutes.  There was
only one chief there.  We really had no direction
what to do.
          Captain Burke decided we would either
go up on our own or wait for someone.  We went
up, started our way up.  We went to the bank of
M. BYRNE 3
elevators.  We pulled a lady out of the bank, one
of the banks.  We used a rabbit tool.  Most of
the banks were blown off.  The doors were charred
and dismembered, some of them.
          Like I said, we were in the lobby for a
while.  There were jumpers, a lot of jumpers.  A
lot of companies coming in and out.
          We decided to take an elevator up.  13
Truck took us up.  I'm assuming it was a low
riser.  It was one of the only elevators that
were clear, and it looked like it was working.
13 took us up to -- first they took a couple guys
from my company up.  Then I went up with another
guy, came back down and got us, went up to the
24th floor.  The whole company was there.
          We walked up three more flights to the
27th floor.  I don't know the time we were up
there for, but however long we were up there,
that's when the other building came down.  We
didn't know it at the time.  The whole building
shook.  We hit the floor.  Guys were saying, "Pop
the door.  Pop the door.  Pop the door."  It
stopped.  No smoke, no nothing.  We thought
something was coming down the hallway, maybe.
M. BYRNE 4
          Again, I don't know the time frame from
that time that elapsed.  We got a report maybe
69th floor, 64th floor, partial collapse.  After
that -- there was one chief, I believe, up there.
I'm not sure.  He told us to start our way down,
make your way down, everybody out.
          Since I didn't hear that on the radio.
I just heard it from -- start your way down.  We
were there with Captain Billy Burke, who we lost.
We're like, "Let's go, Cap.  We're all out."  He
said, "Start your way down.  Make your way down.
We'll all meet at the rig."  Again, we're like
let's go.  He said, "Start your way down.  We'll
all meet at the rig."
I had a radio. We started our way down I believe it was the B staircase. I'm not sure. It could have been A. I talked to him three times on the way down, once in the stairwell, once on the 19th floor as we were switching over fromtheBtotheAortheAtotheB. Again, I'm not sure. I spoke to him once in the lobby.
          It was the same thing all the time,
meet at the rig, meet at the rig.
     Q.   Did he say he was on his way down?
M. BYRNE 5
     A.   I didn't even get that, no.  We still
had no idea the other building came down.
          On the way down, like you said, people
we saw, we saw guys from 8 Engine.  These guys
from my battalion that I knew.  I saw them on the
8th floor.  I saw guys, like you said, you want
to know guys names that were coming in.  I saw
guys coming in there.
     Q.   That were lost?
     A.   I saw a guy from this house,
Lieutenant -- I forget his name.  It's on the
wall.
          Yeah, we got out into the street.  It
was clear.  I didn't even know what happened
until I was in the street about a minute.  We
were walking north.
     Q.   You were on West Street?
     A.   We went north on West over the
overpass.  There were thee of us now walked out.
We walked out with 65 Engine we were just looking
around.  I was basically dazed, what the hell
happened, what the hell happened, what the hell
happened.  Did the building come down?  As you're
saying that, the other one started coming down.
M. BYRNE 6
          I just ran up West Street, still going
north.  Other guys from my company ran across the
street.  You ran and it caught up to you, hit the
floor and just waited and covered with shit.
          That's about it.
     Q.   You can't remember anybody else whose
name that you saw in the building that's missing;
right?
     A.   Rob Parro.  They found his body.  He
was with Freddie Ill.  Three guys in the lobby,
Denis Germain, Dennis Mulligan and George
Dipasquale, all from 2 Truck.  I saw them in the
lobby.
          One of our guys, as we were walking
down the stairs, went back to get the captain
again, and he started helping a guy from 13
Truck, the only guy from 13 Truck that made it
out.  They carried a civilian down.
          Those guys from 13 took us up.  I
remember seeing 44 Engine in the lobby.  I guess
they came together.  It could have been 22.  I
saw -- I forget his name, Lieutenant --
     Q.   Have they found his body?
     A.   No, I'm trying to think of it.  I'm
M. BYRNE 7
sorry.
     Q.   That's okay.
     A.   He's on the wall there too.  Kenny
Phelan.  That's the lieutenant.  I saw him in the
lobby.  He was covering for a day.  He just got
made.
     Q.   Okay.  If that's it, thank you, Mike.
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time now is 1:54,
     and this concludes the interview.
File No. 9110501
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER THOMAS TURILLI
   Interview Date:  January 17, 2002
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
T. TURILLI
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  The date is January
17th, 2002, the time is 1635, AND this is Battalion
Chief Dennis Kenahan from the Safety Battalion of the
Fire Department of the City of New York.  I'm
conducting an interview with Firefighter Thomas Turilli
of Engine 47 in the quarters of Ladder 2.
     Q.   Thomas, just tell us the events as you recall
them from September 11th.
     A.   All right.  On September 11th, we were
watching the news and they broke in and said that the
first tower had been hit by a plane.  We were watching
that for some time, and then it appeared another plane
had hit the south tower.  At that point they
automatically made it a fifth alarm and we responded.
          We parked on West Street, I think it is, as
far as this map is concerned.  Yes.  We were making our
way in with my officer and the guys I was working
with.  Just a lot of glass breaking, there were like
car fires going on on the side of the street.  We
actually went through an overpass and we were standing
underneath that just waiting for the glass or anything,
just so we can actually -- we were actually going in
the hotel lobby.  I'm not sure what hotel it is there.
     Q.   Marriott?  Between the towers?
T. TURILLI
3
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   Okay.
     A.   That connects the two towers?
     Q.   Right.
     A.   We went in there and then we saw Chief Galvin
and we saw other companies.  I saw Ladder 2 there, 22
Engine, 13 Truck.  My officer said try to find a
stairwell if we have to walk, so me and another guy
went and saw there was a maintenance guy working
there.  We went up to almost like, I guess like an
atrium, and we walked up that way and I saw a
maintenance guy there and he said you can pick up the
stairs from the third floor on up after walking up like
I guess an access stairs from the lobby up.
          I came back out, told him we can find a
stairway over there, and he said, all right, that they
want us to go to the south tower, which is I guess the
first actual tower to fall down.  He said there was a
report of fire actually on -- the lowest report of fire
they had was on the 33rd floor at that point.
          There was kind of a little chaos.  We didn't
know really where we were going to go, guys were
deciding to take elevators, not to take elevators.
There was a security guy there who said, actually, I
T. TURILLI
4
can get you up on an elevator if you want to follow
me.  So we went with 22 Engine, 13 Truck and us, walked
I'd say about maybe 100 feet.  We went through like a
turnstile.  But what he was actually doing is he
actually led us through the lobby of the hotel into the
north tower.  We were actually, you could say, in the
wrong tower at that point.
          They went up.  I actually had the control
that day and 22 Engine went up.  The elevator came back
down, 13 got on and said, listen, if you guys want the
elevator, we're not coming back with it.  You've got to
send somebody up.  The officer actually said for me to
give my radio to a senior guy there, Louie Cacchioli,
and he took the radio off of me and he went up.  We
were waiting in I guess like a little almost like a
cutout area of the lobby, an elevator bank.  One
elevator was only working out of like four elevators in
that bank.
          The door closed, they went up, and it just
seemed a couple seconds and all of a sudden you just
heard like it almost actually that day sounded like
bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or
eight, and then just a huge wind gust just came and my
officer just actually took all of us and just threw us
T. TURILLI
5
down on the ground and kind of just jumped on top of
us, laid on top of us.  There were rocks falling and
all that.  The lights were still on at that point and
all of a sudden the lights went out and you couldn't
see anything.
          At this point, there's a guy from my
firehouse on his way up in the elevator.  They got up
to the 22nd floor and 13 Truck got off the elevator.
He said to the guy -- this is before the actual
collapse happened.  He said to him stay here with us,
stay here with me, because if this elevator closes, I
don't have any tools.  As soon as he said that, the
elevator closed and that's when the actual collapse of
the building happened.  He made his way out into a
stairwell and he made his way down.
          When we were down in the lobby, like I said,
the lights went out, there was a lot of dust and all of
that kind of stuff.  After about a minute or so,
everything kind of calmed down.  My officer just told
everyone relax, just hold onto each other.  He was
radioing the guy upstairs to see if he was all right.
He was making his way down.  He said he was in the
stairwell with 13 Truck, he's coming down right now.
          My officer knew how to actually get out and
T. TURILLI
6
we just held onto each other.  There were security
guards and some civilians, and he just told people,
just hold onto us, like a human chain, just grab onto
another person and we'll make our way out.  We went
about 20 feet, 25 feet, and we saw a light.  It turned
to be a light of almost like I guess a restaurant
area.  He said no, that's not the way out, and he said
just keep on going straight.  In about another 25 feet
to 30 feet, there was windows, I guess, lobby,
ground-level windows that were blown out, and we just
walked out of there.
          Two guys I was with said they were hurt and
everything.  So my officer, myself and the few guys who
said they were hurt, we walked them across the street
and we brought them to an ambulance.  At that point we
were kind of standing on the street and I looked to my
left and actually I noticed the tower was down.  I
didn't even know what it was when we were in there.  It
just seemed like a huge explosion.
          Then my officer said you all right?  I said
yeah, I'm fine.  That whole time he was actually going
over the radio with our control man saying you making
your way out?  He said I'm out in the street right
now.  I'm fine.  So my officer said all right -- you
T. TURILLI
7
could hear Maydays going over the radio at that point.
It was just so many, I really didn't know where they
were coming from.
          Then we started walking actually back towards
Tower 1 and a cop and a Battalion Chief came up to us
and said just start running the other way.  The other
tower is coming down.
     Q.   Who told you this; a cop?
     A.   A cop and a Battalion Chief.  We were kind of
like standing next to them.  I stayed with him -- I was
with the Battalion Chief at one point and I started
running up the street and I kind of lost track of all
the guys I was with.  The two other guys who I actually
brought to the ambulance, the ambulance guy said you've
got to get out of the ambulance.  They just started
running towards the water.  We started running, myself,
the Battalion Chief, the cop, my Lieutenant was with me
at that point, up West Street, and you just heard a
rumbling, a huge amount of rumbling, and I just dove
under a car, and I was with a guy from I think 138
Truck.
          The tower came down, the second tower came
down, and then just a lot of chaos, you know, the same
thing it was like inside, it was dust and all that
T. TURILLI
8
other stuff flying around.  I think it was like five
minutes before things cleared up, and I saw a light and
it was just the light of a rig, the flashing lights,
and then it seemed like more and more guys were coming
out of the cars or wherever they were hiding.  I met up
with my officer and the guys I work with, and they were
just saying everyone just go back a couple of streets
just to regroup and then we'll go from there, and
that's about it.
     Q.   Okay.  That's it?
     A.   Yes.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  All right.  Well,
thank you, Thomas.  This concludes the interview.  The
time now is 4:45.
File No. 9110502
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER EDWARD KENNEDY
   Interview Date:  January 17, 2002
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
E. KENNEDY
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          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today's date is
January 17th, 2002, the time is 3:28, and this is
Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan from the Safety
Battalion of the Fire Department of the City of New
York.  I'm conducting an interview with firefighter
Edward Kennedy of Engine 44 in the quarters of Engine
53.
     Q.   Ed, just tell us the incident as you recall
it on that day.
     A.   We weren't dispatched until the second plane
hit.  We were watching.  It was in the house watch we
were watching as -- you know, we turned the TV on like
everybody else, saw that there was a hole in the side
of the building, weren't sure whether it was a little
plane or was it an implosion or an explosion.  But as
we watched the TV, all of a sudden the second plane
flew in there and hit, and with that we knew right
away, we thought it was an act of terrorism.
          A minute or two after the second plane hit,
we were dispatched to 2 World Trade Center.  So as we
got ready to go, everyone got in, we took off.  Instead
of going to 2 World Trade Center, they gave us
information on the radio to come down 11th Avenue, that
the police had cordoned off 11th Avenue, and that's the
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way we went down.  They had it all cleared.  53 Engine,
as a matter of fact, was right ahead of us.  We just
followed them down.
          We parked on West Street.  I really don't
know exactly where because there were so many rigs and
stuff but back a ways.  We had to walk down a few
blocks to get down.  The lobby command post at that
time -- we took extra bottles with us, and the lobby
command post was set up across West Street.  I guess it
had originally been in the towers, I heard, and the
flames had come down into the lobby and they had moved
across West Street up in front of I guess it's --
     Q.   The Financial Center?
     A.   -- the Financial Center.  They had the
command post set up there and they lined us up and they
told us that there was a -- I thought it was a parking
lot.  From what I understand it was a loading dock.  So
they wanted the engines lined up on the entrance, the
trucks lined up on the exit.  So we lined up there.
The officer had checked in already and we were standing
across from 1 World Trade Center and looking up, I had
the hose on my shoulder and my mask on and, of course,
I'd never seen anything like it, 20 floors of fire.
I'm looking up and I'm supposed to go to Yankee Stadium
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that night and it's 9:30 in the morning and I knew
right away, I said, whew, I ain't going to Yankee
Stadium.  I never thought the building, looking up at
it, would fall, but I did figure that -- I knew right
away that we couldn't put the fire out.  I didn't think
we would be able to put the fire out.  I figured the
fire would have to burn out.  It was a minimum 20
floors of fire I thought.
          As I looked up, some debris was falling and
then people started jumping.  The scary thing is, as
the people were jumping, I was counting, and I got to
15 before an officer from 16 Truck finally said, guys,
we're losing our focus.  Don't look.  We can't help
those people.  We have to focus on maybe putting out
the fire or trying to help the people we can.  Turn
around and maybe look in.
          That's what I did.  I turned around and
looked in and there was a priest there, one of the Fire
Department chaplains, Father Delindick I later found
out.  I never knew who he was.  But one of my members,
the guys in my company asked him if he would give us
absolution.  He gave us a general absolution, said a
few prayers, and he said to be careful and with that,
shortly after that, people still were jumping and
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stuff, an officer came and said 44?  We were instructed
to go down West Street.
          So we left our roll-ups and our masks because
we were going to go down West Street.  We were ordered
to go down West Street and make sure that a lane on
West Street was kept open because vehicles were coming
in via Brooklyn, coming around the east side drive,
coming up the drive, all kinds of cops, emergency
vehicles, fire apparatus and everything, and they
wanted to make sure that emergency vehicles would be
able to get through north and south on West Street.
          So as we headed down West Street, I did get a
look at the second building, which was far worse than
No. 1.  When we were standing across from 1, you really
couldn't see to No. 2 as well as -- you know, you could
see the smoke, but you really couldn't see how bad it
was.  When I looked, you could tell it was worse.  It a
lot more fire, it seemed, and it just seemed worse.
But as we walked down, we were telling guys, you know,
keep your rigs on the side.  We walked in front of the
hotel, keep your rigs on the side, make sure that we
can get through.
          As we walked down, there's another overpass
on Liberty, right on Liberty and West.  There's another
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overpass.  As we got to there, there was a Hatzollah
ambulance there, two Jewish fellows, and they were a
little nervous and they were asking, if we have no
helmets, what are we going to do?  We told them, well,
don't walk out.  People are jumping, debris is
falling.  My advice to you would be get in the
ambulance and go south, get away from here, because
stuff is falling down.
          As we said that, I turned to our left, the
officer was there, there was an SUV burning on the
left-hand side.  Now, there's an escalator that comes
down off of that overpass.  It's a walkway down.  It
was right next to that.  His thoughts were, even though
there was like 45 floors of fire, that this might in
some way lap up into the air and maybe catch, you know,
set that on fire.  So when he said maybe we should put
that fire out, two of our guys said okay and they ran
from under that overpass.  They went west.  There were
rigs park there, a squad and a couple other rigs, and
they went over there trying to get Purple K
extinguishers or some kind of extinguishers.
          As I looked over by the Marriott, I could see
65 Engine was on the corner, hooked up, and hooked up
into the Siamese.  That's one thing I can definitely
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recall that.  I'm trying to recall a lot of different
things, but that I definitely remember seeing.  But as
the guys ran over, I also saw that there was a company,
I don't know where they came from, there was a company,
they were hooking up to the hydrant which was right on
the corner of Liberty.  They had the same intentions.
They had grabbed a length of hose, just hooked up to
the hydrant and were starting to open up the hydrant
just to put the fire out there also.
          So when I saw that and I saw our two guys
were going over, I said to the Lieutenant, well, I'm
just going to walk south down here a little bit, tell
these guys that are pulling in, 113 Truck had just
pulled up and they were on the west side of the street
and there was another rig coming up, and as I said to
the guy with me, Richie Boeri and I, I said to Richie,
well, okay, we're going to walk down there and just
tell these guys not to block, you know, keep the road
open.  We took two steps, there was a tremendous boom,
explosion, we both turned around, and the top of the
building was coming down at us.  With this I just
turned to Richie and said run.
          I ran half a block down, stumbled.  My helmet
came off.  I was like a fox looking for a hole.  I just
E. KENNEDY
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saw a car, saw the back of a car, dove under the car
without my helmet, covered up and held my breath as all
the debris and all the wind and everything broke the
windows on top.  I'm thinking I've got my back -- I
don't have my mask.  My mask I left up by the command
post and now I've got my rear end underneath -- you
know, the gas tank is right on my back and I'm
thinking, if something falls on this, I'm dead, and I'm
thinking, well, maybe something is going to come down
the side and I'm just holding onto my head and just
praying to God that nothing kills me.
          So I was trying to hold my breath.  I was
trying to get the stuff out of my mouth.  I opened my
eyes twice.  It was pitch black and it sounded like a
hurricane coming through.  The glass on the car was
breaking and it was just, you know, as things settled,
it seemed to me it was like 15 minutes.  It probably
wasn't 15 minutes, but it just seemed to me like it was
about 15 minutes.  I was underneath the car and then
all of a sudden it kind of lightened up.  You could
tell it kind of calmed down, everything lightened up,
and I was pulling stuff out of my mouth, trying to
breathe.  I had pulled up my hood to try and get it
over my mouth so that I could at least breathe a little
bit.
E. KENNEDY
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          I started talking on the radio to see if any
of our guys.  I called for the control man.  The
control man was with the other guy that I said that had
gone to get the Purple K or extinguishers.  When the
building exploded, they ran down Liberty towards the
water, and I only got in touch with the control man.
The backup man -- I mean the nozzle man didn't have a
radio.  I said Mattie, Mattie, are you okay?  He told
me I think I have a broken ankle.  I think I have a
broken ankle.  I said where are you?  Where are you?
He says I'm heading to the water.  I'm heading towards
the water.  So I said, okay, you head to the water.  I
said have you seen Bobby?  Have you seen Bobby Reeg?
Have you seen Bobby Reeg?  He said I don't know where
he is.  I don't know where he is.  I said okay, Mattie,
head to the water.  We'll meet you at the water, I
said, but you're sure you haven't seen Bobby?  He goes
I don't know what happened to him.  I haven't seen
him.
          So with this I roll out from underneath and
it's like snowing, it's like ash, it looked like snow,
and as I rolled out from underneath the car, I noticed
that the officer, my officer, who was a covering
E. KENNEDY
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officer, had run and he dove -- I dove underneath the
rear of the car.  He dove along the driver's side,
along the curb, put his face down there, and he was
there.  I turned around and I saw him, but as I turned
around and I looked in the street, there was a Chief
yelling in the street.  He was in a daze.  I went over
to him to see if he was okay and I touched his shoulder
and he screamed out ahhh!  I said whoa, this guy got a
broken shoulder.
          As I turned to my left, I turned around,
Dr. Kelly from the medical office was standing right
there.  I asked her how did you get here?  How did you
get here, Dr. Kelly?  How did you get here?  With that,
she didn't even have time to answer me because the guy
that I was with, Richie, who I didn't even think of at
first, had turned around and he was standing there and
he had blood all over his face.  I screamed to him,
Richie, are you all right?  Are you all right?  He
said, yeah, I just got a cut on my head.  I got a cut
on my head.  But his face was all bloody.  But I knew
he was all right, so our main concern now is we're
missing one guy.  We're missing Bobby Reeg.  I told it
to the officer, he's all right, I'm all right.
Mattie's got a broken ankle.  He's heading to the
E. KENNEDY
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water.  We know Richie is there.  He's hurt but he's
okay.  Now we're trying to find Bobby.
          Dr. Kelly said she's going to take -- some
other firemen came over and they said they're going to
come with us, they'll be all right, we're going to take
them to the ambulance.  Fine.  So now we start to try
and go back up West Street, but 113 was on fire, there
were pockets of stuff burning all over the place, cars
were burning.  It looked like a war zone.  So the
officer and I decided, okay, we've got to go get
Mattie.  We'll see where Mattie is first, then we'll
meet Mattie and we'll try and find Bobby after we get
Mattie into an ambulance, make sure he's okay.
          So we walked down Albany, but before we got
to the water, there were people with broken legs and
stuff, they were loading them in ambulances, and our
eyes were really bothering us.  We were spitting out
stuff.  There was an open store there.  We went into a
store.  There's another road between Albany, as you go
down Albany, before you get to the water, there's
another street in here, which I'm trying to find out.
End.  It says End Street.  End Avenue?
     Q.   That might be West End.
     A.   I don't know if it's West End Avenue, but
E. KENNEDY
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there's another street in there, avenue, and it's right
by Gateway Plaza, right on the corner there.  There was
a store there and we went in there and we got some
water, tried to rinse our eyes out, which really made
it worse, but gargle and try to get some of it out.
          I checked a couple of ambulances to see if
Bobby was in the ambulance.  He wasn't in the
ambulance.  So I got in touch with Mattie on the
radio.  He said he was over by the water.  We walked
down one block, down to the water along -- heading up
towards the harbor because that's where he was, right
on the corner by the harbor.  He had come in that way.
We met him and as we were standing there talking, we
just sat him down on a bench, people started screaming
and started running from that area of the harbor, the
marina, and the second building started to come down.
          Just lucky for us that there was a police
car, a police van there, and we jumped into the police
van.  We got Mattie into the police van with a couple
of cops, and the building was kind of shielding us from
heavy debris, but debris still came over and the dust
and everything, and at least we were able to breathe
because the engine was running and it was
air-conditioned and at least we were able to breathe.
E. KENNEDY
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          At that moment I'm thinking, well, maybe I
should go in the water because there were boats in the
water.  I'm starting to get a little paranoid now and
saying maybe I should take my stuff off, jump in the
water, get in a boat, at least I'll be all right,
because I didn't know -- at that point I didn't have
any idea, you know, I didn't see the other building
come down.  We just heard it rumbling and crashing and
people screaming that it was coming down and we ran and
jumped in.
          I mean, I never knew the first building that
came down, No. 2, I didn't know that the whole building
came down because I really couldn't see.  What I saw
was the top of the building, the top quarter of the
building come down, and I never knew until later on
that the whole bottom, that the rest of it had pancaked
down, because I couldn't see because of all the dusk
and the smoke and even, I don't know, how many minutes
later, however it was.
          Basically, we got Mattie.  After we had come
out, we tried to rest him and everything was pretty
chaotic.  Somehow alongside this plaza here, what do
they call it, around the plaza, it goes down to Battery
Park, right along the water, the walkway there, there
E. KENNEDY
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was a guy with a golf cart and he had some people on
it, and we got Mattie on the golf cart because he had a
broken ankle, which really was hurting him a lot now.
We put him on that and the guy took him down and what
he did was he got on one of the boats.  They stopped
those boats along there and he got on a boat and he
went to Jersey.
          So now the officer and I figured we've got to
try and find Bobby.  So everybody we came across that
we recognized, people from 16 Truck and whatever, we
tried to look for Bobby and we searched for Bobby.  We
went back out to Albany Street and tried to walk up,
and it was totally chaotic.  We really couldn't get up
that way.  So we walked our way back up Albany, up by
the marina and up through, and got down into Liberty
Street.  We were on Liberty Street and we came out into
there and it just look like something that -- it looked
like a bomb, of course, had gone off, almost like a
nuclear bomb.  That's all I could think of.  I've never
been at war.  I equated it to being like when I saw
something like when I was a kid and I saw Godzilla in
the movies or something, when he crushes those
buildings and stuff like that, that's what it looked
like to me.
E. KENNEDY
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          At that moment, we knew he was in that
general area, but there were crushed vehicles, I mean,
guys now were trying -- there was water there.  I don't
know where the water came from, but there was like
puddles of water and stuff.  I don't know if it was
from hoses or whatever had been stretched.  But guys
were trying to climb up and look in all the stuff and
stuff was still smoking and burning and stuff was
teetering.
          Finally, I don't know who it was, some Chief
or somebody, somebody said, I want everybody on the
radio, everybody back out, back out.  So they wanted
them to back out like into Liberty Street, back away
from it.  Guys were upset with that at first, but he
said we have to assess the situation first.  We want to
make sure nobody else gets hurt.  There was big metal
beams and whatever they call those stanchions and stuff
that were stuck in the ground, stuff was piled, stuff
was teetering still.  It really wasn't a safe scene.
So whoever was in charge at that point on the radio was
saying everybody back out, let's back out, let's size
up everything, let's get everybody together, then we'll
assess the situation and we'll go in and try and search
and find out what's what.
E. KENNEDY
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          So we did back out.  We backed out back to
the marina because then our eyes again were starting,
especially the officer I was with.  By the end of the
day he was blind.  He couldn't see at all.  I was
walking him around.  But we went back to the marina and
someone had set up a little hose there.  At this time
now there were boats starting to come in, like some
police boats had come in there and stuff like that and
they were taking people periodically, they were taking
people.  Now the fire boats were starting to come in
and pull along, so a couple of us, we decided, you
know, somebody got together or one of the officers said
let's go, we've got to stretch some lines out.
          So we stretched lines.  We went back down by
Albany Street and we had pulled out lines and we were
stretching lines back out there and they started
pumping and trying to put the pockets of fire here and
there out.  But I was between Albany, the marina and
Liberty most of the day trying to find Bobby.
Everybody we came across, we tried to get in there, and
we walked.  We finally were able to get from Liberty
back down to Albany walking among the stuff and seeing
stuff turned upside-down, but we couldn't find Bobby
anywhere.
E. KENNEDY
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          Finally, after about three or four hours,
three hours of searching for him, I came across a guy
that was the battalion aide from 13 Truck and I asked
him if he saw Bobby, and he said he saw Bobby.  He says
he was alive.  He says he knows he's hurt, he doesn't
know if it's his shoulder or what, but he was slumped
and they had put him in an ambulance.  So that made the
officer who was a covering officer feel a lot better,
and at least I know, well, he was okay.  I saw another
guy that was driving, a guy in my company, I can't even
think of who he was driving, one of the Chiefs that got
killed, but he told me he definitely saw Bobby, too.
Most of the day we spent -- we tried to get our eyes --
we tried to get into some -- there was a drugstore
there that they had opened up and we tried to get some
saline, we tried to get someone from the ambulance,
they washed our eyes out because we were having the
problem with the eyes and spitting up.
          But right in here by Liberty, by Gateway
Plaza, there was a hotel that's right there.  That was
on fire.  Then again we stretched lines up there to try
and get that fire, put that fire out.  There was a fire
on the 7th floor.  We got the lines up there.  There
was enough water in the tank up there to just put out
E. KENNEDY
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that fire.  It wasn't really big, but there was a fire
up there.
          We were just basically standing around trying
to coordinate, trying to find out what's going on and
helping people, whoever was hurt, and asking if you'd
seen people, coming across people, you know, do you
know what happened to this guy?  Have you seen this
guy?  It really was a total disaster, so for a while it
was out of control.
          Maydays?  I did hear a Mayday.  I did hear a
Mayday for 65 Truck, and the way I understood it, I
thought he was buried in his truck.  I later found out
that the chauffeur from 65 Engine was the guy, when I
said in my story in the beginning, by where the
escalator was coming down, he had taken a length of
hose off of his engine and hooked it right onto the
fire hydrant and was opening the fire hydrant when the
building came down and he was caught right by that
escalator that was coming down from the overpass on
Liberty.  He was buried in debris underneath there, and
the Mayday was coming from -- I guess somehow he got a
Mayday out, and I thought that he was in the fire
engine, but little did I know that the fire engine was
buried and whatever.
E. KENNEDY
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          That was the only Mayday that I remember, and
to tell you the truth, the only guy that really stands
out in my mind that I remember being on the radio was
Chief Visconti.  I remember him talking and giving
directions and this and that.  But this is as the day
was going on and, of course, there were so many
transmissions going over.  I remember him screaming
about 7, No. 7, that they wanted everybody away from 7
because 7 was was definitely going to collapse, they
don't know when, but it's definitely going to come
down, just get the hell out of the way, everybody get
away from it, make sure you're away from it, that's an
order, you know, stuff like that.  I don't really
remember too much of the transmission about 6 Truck,
but I ran into 43 Truck and they were telling me the
story about it, so I kind of knew about that.
          But most of the day we were just doing what
we could, stretching hoses here, hanging out by the
boat, going over by the marina, washing our eyes out,
going back up into this area by Liberty Street and
Gateway Plaza, and most of the day was just doing what
we could, what little we can.  Somebody was coming over
here, humping hose here, humping hose there, searching
through debris, looking for people.
E. KENNEDY
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          Finally, one of the guys in my company who
was on light duty came, he found us and, I don't know,
sometime around 6:00, 7:00 o'clock, we made our way up
to try to find my company.  I heard that they were
there and that the guys had come down and I had made my
way back up the west side through the back way here,
over by 2 World Financial Center, behind there, by the
Winter Garden and up, somewhere on Vesey, and made my
way up to the school, what's that, Stuyvesant school,
where they did my eyes, which felt good.
          Then I ran into my company and I hung out
with them for maybe an hour there, and then my officer
told me, you know, you're doing no good anymore being
here, you've been here long enough, to go back to the
firehouse.  I don't even know what time we went back to
the firehouse.  Basically --
     Q.   That's it?
     A.   That's it in a nutshell.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Okay.  Thank you,
Ed.  The time now is 3:48 and this concludes the
interview.
File No. 9110503
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
        FIREFIGHTER PAUL BESSLER
   Interview Date:  January 21, 2002
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
P. BESSLER
2
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today is January
21st, 2002, the time is 1:05 p.m., and this is
Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan from the Safety
Battalion of the Fire Department of the City of New
York.  I'm conducting an interview with Firefighter
Paul Bessler from Engine 1 in the quarters of Engine
1.
     Q.   Paul, just tell the events as you recall them
from September 11th.
     A.   Okay.  I'll start with Engine 1's arrival to
the building.  We responded to the north tower and we
proceeded up to the 22nd floor.  When we got to the
22nd floor, there was a staging area for I believe it
was the Port Authority Police, and our proby was having
chest pains, and my Lieutenant, Andy Desperito, gave an
urgent for Firefighter Craig Dunn, probationary
firefighter, which kind of slowed us down a little
bit.  We would have continued up, but we wanted to make
sure he was getting assistance.  His urgent was given
and it was answered.  I don't know by who.
          So we were going to proceed up.  He was in
good hands with the Port Authority cops.  While we were
in the hallway, we were taking a breather, the south
tower fell.  We all thought it was a secondary
P. BESSLER
3
explosion or maybe a plane, but we never knew that the
south tower fell.  We just knew, whatever it was, that
it was really bad.  So the lights had gone out and the
ceiling tiles fell and we all turned our flashlights on
and went into the staircase to get shelter because the
shafts were open.  On the 22nd floor, some of the
elevator shafts were actually open.  I don't know who
had said it but they said, you know, get into the
staircase, and we all went in the staircase.  The
emergency lighting was on.
          Andy actually started going up the staircase,
which, in my mind, I thought he's not going up the
stairs.  After what just happened, this is not good.
There's something we don't know.  He was on a mission
to go up the stairs.  The brothers were up.  Just at
that point, my radio came clear as day, "Imminent
collapse.  This was a terrorist attack.  Evacuate."
That's exactly what I heard.  I think that was Chief
Picciotto that was giving the order.  We relayed that
again, hoping that the brothers would hear it above us,
and I remember the look on Andy's face, like
apprehension that we were going to leave this building.
     Q.   What's Andy's last name?
     A.   Desperito.  Andy Desperito.
P. BESSLER
4
          Anyhow, he looked at me and told me to take
Craig, the proby, and get him out safely, which I did.
I grabbed Craig by the collar and said come on, we're
getting out.  I started going down the stairs,
everybody behind us.  We came a cross that woman,
Josephine Harris, who was saved by Ladder 6.  I stopped
for a moment, and just as I did, the staircase kind of
got clogged because we blocked the landing and just for
a moment I looked thinking how can we help this lady?
All of a sudden I hear somebody yelling go, go, we got
her.  I look up and it's Andy and sure enough he's
going to help everybody, Andy, you know?  We started
going back down the stairs again because I figured,
okay, she's not going to be left.  We continued on our
way.
          We got to about the 4th floor and the
emergency lighting now was dim, covered with white
powder and whatever, and we caught up to the
civilians.  They were kind of backed up.  What happened
was, I guess, it was dark at the bottom of the
staircase and I shined my flashlight and started
yelling for people to move and, eventually, with our
lights, they were able to see and it kind of flushed
everybody out and all those civilians were able to get
P. BESSLER
5
out of the staircase ahead of us.  I was expecting like
a pileup.  I didn't expect to be able to get out of the
staircase, to tell you the truth.
          When I got down to the lobby, now the lobby
was a disaster.  It was slippery.  It was just -- you
know, it wasn't the same lobby that I came into it
seemed.  We got to the lobby and there was a Chief.  I
don't remember who he was, but he screamed at us and
pointed, and he pointed towards West Street, which we
went out right to the building.  When I got to the
apron, I looked up to see if any more -- there was a
lot of jumpers and people were still jumping and we
looked up to make sure it was clear, put our heads down
and we ran out.
     Q.   Just one thing.  When you said he was
screaming at you, he was telling you to leave?
     A.   Yes.  Go, go, and pointing towards West
Street, just yelling, go, go, go.  I expected maybe to
hang out in the lobby for a little, you know, not
thinking I was in danger.  So we went out.  We
realized.  We said, you know, he's ordering us to get
out, so we did, and that's how we kind of got separated
from our guys because now he's telling us to go, so now
there's a distance between the guys in the staircase.
P. BESSLER
6
          So we get out to the apron, look up to make
sure it's clear.  I was with the proby.  I didn't want
anything happening at this point.  We just crossed the
barricades and started walking and there was all that
white dust in the street.  It was like a five-inch
snowstorm, like just fresh powder.  We were actually
making footprints in it.  I didn't see anybody outside
except for just the jumpers.  I mean, we really didn't
see anybody and it was really bizarre.  It was
surreal.  It didn't make sense.  There were so many
people on arrival and now there's nobody, and we never
knew the south tower fell still.
          Just as we got towards the walkway, I looked
back because I heard what I thought was another jet,
and it was the building on its way down already.  My
guys had just came out.  They were on the apron and
they were just going to cross the barricade and stuff
was -- the debris was on its way down and we just ran.
We had our masks on.  Our face pieces were actually on
because the proby was having problems with chest pains,
having difficulty breathing, so even when we were on
the 4th floor, I made him put his mask on and I did the
same thing.
          So we had our masks on and we were running
P. BESSLER
7
towards Vesey Street as fast as we could with all our
gear, and as we were running, thinking we're never
going to make it.  It was just ridiculous to think you
were going to make it.  We both wound up getting
knocked down by the blast, I guess, from like a
pressure wave.  It took us off our feet.  My helmet
flew off.  We got up and just continued running, and
then the dust cloud just engulfed us, and basically it
was over our head like two or three blocks but down.
It kind of went -- it's hard to explain on tape, but
the dust cloud had gone further up the block, higher.
The lower section was like a few blocks back.  So it
kind of stayed on us the whole way, and all the guys I
knew were behind us in it and I never thought I'd see
them again, you know.
          We made our way out of there.  I got Craig to
an ambulance and they took him immediately, and just as
they were putting him in and prepping him in the
ambulance, they said there was a gas leak and we heard
some secondary explosions and all the ambulances and
ESU trucks kind of took off in the other direction.  So
now I'm running by myself in the dust with nobody left
from my company, and I started calling on the radio,
you know, anybody from Engine 1?  I was just asking
P. BESSLER
8
anybody seen Engine 1?  I didn't get any response at
all.  So it was just a lonely feeling.  I didn't quite
understand what really took place.
          After a while I found a couple of guys that I
know and they said that there were guys looking for me,
so I knew that a couple of my members had made it.  In
the back of my mind, I just never thought -- I was
hoping Andy Desperito was okay, but I kind of didn't
think he was going to -- you know, it was too close for
us, so anybody behind us, I really didn't think they
made it.  I found a couple of my members and found out
about Father Mike and found out that -- I guess it must
have been maybe 40 minutes to an hour, they already had
found Andy.  They found his body.  It wasn't confirmed
but it was confirmed to me by guys I trust.
          We made our way back to the command post,
which was now on Vesey Street, I guess, and we didn't
know what to do.  We were there, we had no boss, and we
just kind of wandered around aimlessly thinking what
can we do?  We can't go look for our boss.  We've
already found him.  Like what are we supposed to do at
this point?  So we decided we would just go back to the
firehouse and try to deal with everything and kind of
report the story and try to find out who made it, who
P. BESSLER
9
didn't, from the truck.
          That's pretty much it.  I mean, sparing all
the details, you know.
     Q.   All right.  Well, if there's anything else
you want to add --
     A.   No, that's pretty much it.  I got it wrapped
up into a short story now.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  Okay.  Well, thank
you, Paul.
          FIREFIGHTER BESSLER:  You're welcome.
          BATTALION CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time now is
1:13 and this concludes the interview.
File No. 9110504
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER FITZROY HAINES
   Interview Date:  January 25, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
F. HAINES 2
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today is January 25th,
     2002, and the time is 11:53 a.m.  this is
     Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan from the
     Safety Battalion of the Fire Department of
     the City of New York.  I'm conducting an
     interview with Firefighter Fitzroy Haines of
     Ladder 15 in the quarters of Engine 4.
     Q.   Fitzroy, just tell us the events as you
recall them from September 11th.
     A.   The alarm came in at 8:45.  That
particular day I was going to work that morning
the morning tour.  I was there waiting to leave,
me and another gentleman.  When the alarm came
through, the dispatcher said all units stand by.
There's an explosion at the World Trade.  That's
all we got here.
          That day Lieutenant Levy and Captain
Farrell was working.  They shot downstairs and
said everyone get dressed because you know we're
going.  We're right here.
          I was already down, not dressed, but I
got dressed and I was the first one to come out.
I noticed -- the buildings were to my left --
white smoke and paper floating our way.  I yelled
F. HAINES 3
back to everyone, "We've got something pretty big
there."
          Right before the rigs came and pulled
out, Doug Oelschlager and Scott Kopytko pulled
up.  They were working that morning.  Scott
bumped me off the rig.  I told him he had the
eyes.  He said okay, and he went with the truck.
          I parked Oslagger's car, because he
pulled up on the first bay here, parked his car
across the street, then came inside.  Being the
World Trade, I figured it would be on the news.
So I walked into the house watch, turned on the
TV, and I saw that I guess it was the north tower
was on fire.  I just know it was which one of
them, it was way up on like the 80th floor,
whatnot.
          At that moment another firefighter, Tom
Ryan, who was going to be detail to someone else,
came in and said, "They're going to need a lot of
help.  I'm going to go over there."  I asked him
if I could go, because I was off and I'm a proby.
I didn't want to get in trouble.  He said, yes,
just stay close to him.  I said okay.
          I was already still in my bunker gear.
F. HAINES 4
As soon as he grabbed his gear, we went out in
the street, and Battalion 4 was shooting up the
street.  We flagged them down, and we jumped on
with them.
          The chauffeur wasn't sure if he should
take the tunnel or the street.  By the time he
had an inkling, he was already halfway through
the tunnel and he got stuck.  Tom and myself had
to jump out of the car and run -- rushed through
the tunnel and clear out the tunnel, because at
that end the cops didn't know what was going on.
We really didn't know what was going on either.
          By then I guess while we were in the
tunnel, that's when the second plane hit.  I
still didn't know it was big commercial planes
that hit.  I noticed that it was like no traffic
on the other side of the tunnel.
          The police officer that was out there
started sending the cars back through, because by
then we couldn't have backed up because there
were more emergency vehicles behind the chief.
We just wanted to get everyone through.
          As soon as the chief got cleared, we
jumped right back in.  We were coming up, and I
F. HAINES 5
noticed that 15 Truck was by the Mayor, kind of
far down from the Trade Center.  I asked Tom
should we get out here for our guys.  He said no,
stay with the chief.
          I figured that was kind of weird that
they were so far down.  Come to find out later
that they had cut an air hose and that's why they
seized up a couple blocks down.  I guess they got
out and walked the rest of the way.
          So we pulled up in front of the south
tower because there was really no one in the
street.  We didn't see any command center.  The
chief told the chauffeur go down towards the
north.  As soon as we did, we saw the command
post.  I believe that was seven financial, right
in the parking lot.
     Q.   On West Street?
     A.   On West Street.  We were on West
Street.  It was more like --
     Q.   Near the Winter Garden atrium?
     A.   Yeah, right there.  They were in the
parking lot.
          The first thing I thought was it took
us all of about seven minutes to get there, but I
F. HAINES 6
noticed that the Mayor, the Commissioner and a
lot of other officials were already there before
us.  I thought that was kind of weird.  I found
out later that they were there for a meeting
earlier.  So okay.
          I don't know which chief it was, but he
put Tom and myself under I think it's Captain
Brethel, I think was his name.  He's the captain
of Ladder 24 with Engine 1, I believe.  He was
supposed to be in charge of all the fat guys that
are coming down to volunteer and whatnot.
          The reason why we didn't go in the
towers was because we only had one Scott pack and
we were waiting for more gear and more cylinders
to be released.  So we were under the pedestrian
walk bridge that's in front of first World Trade,
about ten yards away from the command center.  We
were staged there.  We were there for quite a
while.  The only thing I was doing was just
counting the bodies that were jumping.
          I would say after a good 20, 25
minutes, the captain came up to us and said, "You
guys really don't need to see this.  Just go down
West Street like a block and a half towards Vesey
F. HAINES 7
Street and stage there."  So we walked towards
Vesey Street, not all the way.  I took off my
clothes and staged there.
          By the time I did that, that's when the
south tower collapsed.  Everyone just said "Run."
I was in the street, but there were just too many
people.  I noticed there were too many vehicles
and people coming down the street.  I felt that
was kind of dangerous.  I jumped back on the
sidewalk because I know the fence -- there's a
chain link fence that runs all the way down West
Street.  I knew if I couldn't get out of that
crowd that would be a safe reference point if I
walked all the way down.
          So I ran all the way down.  A couple
seconds just before the cloud came over me, I
knelt by the fence and put my hood over my mouth
and let it come over me.  Then I got up and just
followed the cloud out.
          I found one guy that was sprawled out.
I picked him up, helped him out.  There was
another female.  She was just walking.  I told
her the right way to walk out.
          I walked out of the cloud.  I let it
F. HAINES 8
settle for a little bit.  Then I went back out
and got my coat because I had staged it, and came
back.  By then I found Tom, who I went down with.
We were down I guess around Barclay then, staged
around Barclay street, because we were waiting
for everyone to form back up to see if we could
get anyone out of the first collapse.
          But the main chiefs that were there
were just telling everyone stay put, stay put.
They were sending whole companies and units down
to see if they could get anyone out of the
collapse.
          By then I noticed -- we found I believe
it was Bob Humphreys, the Engine 4 chauffeur, was
walking towards us.  We helped him off with his
gear and tried to wash the debris off some and
whatnot.
          We were there for like, I guess, 19
minutes or so.  That's when the second one
collapsed.
     Q.   Now you're at Barclay and West?
     A.   Yeah, Barclay and West.  All this day I
never left West Street.  When the second one
started to collapse, we went down further towards
F. HAINES 9
the high school that's there.  I think it's --
     Q.   Stuyvesant?
     A.   Stuyvesant or Lafayette?
     Q.   I'm not sure.
     A.   It's either Stuyvesant or Lafayette
High School.  That's where we went.  We walked
all the way down there, staged there.  Pretty
much the remainder of the day I was there,
because the chiefs didn't want anyone going back
in.  They were trying to get a head count of who
was actually there and whatnot.  That was pretty
much it.  I stayed there for the remainder of the
day.
     Q.   Thank you, Fitzroy.
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time now is 12:02,
     and this concludes the interview.
File No. 9110505
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER CRAIG CARLSEN
   Interview Date:  January 25, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
C. CARLSEN 2
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  Today is January 25th,
     2002.  The time is 1:50 p.m.   This is
     Battalion Chief Dennis Kenahan from the
     Safety Battalion of the Fire Department of
     the City of New York.  I'm conducting an
     interview with Firefighter Craig Carlsen
     from Ladder 8 in the quarters of Ladder 8.
     Q.   Craig, just tell us the events as you
recall them from September 11th.
     A.   We were down at the medical office
going for our annual medical.  We got into the
medical office.  We heard that a plane had hit
One World Trade Center, the north tower.  When we
got into the medical office, of course the TVs
were on and everybody was focused on it.
          It was approximately five minutes to 9.
As we were watching the events unfold, we
realized our company was down there for it.
That's when we saw the second plane hit.  At that
point we decided to find out from -- we had our
medicals, and find out if we were supposed to
leave or stay for our medicals, which we got
permission to leave, and we left the medical
office.
C. CARLSEN 3
          We went out into the street and
commandeered a couple of cars.  Some people went
in one car, and another person and myself had
gotten into an ambulance along with another
lieutenant that was down at the medical office,
and we proceeded over to my firehouse to pick up
gear, we realized we had to pick up the gear to
go down to the job.
          We pretty much got over into quarters
of Ladder 8 at approximately 10 after 9 or so.
We picked up our gear and proceeded down to the
Trade Center.  We almost caught a ride from
Engine 235, and they had no room on their rig.
They proceeded down, and we caught the next --
just a van that was going downtown.
          As we got down to the location, we got
dropped off a couple of blocks away.  I don't
really recall what street we got dropped off on,
but I think it was Barclay and West.  The
lieutenant and I traveled down to where Ladder
8's rig was to find out, see if we could hook up
with Ladder, looking for the command post.
          I proceeded into One World Trade Center
into the front lobby.  Just making it into the
C. CARLSEN 4
door, I ran into 3 Truck, members of 3 Truck,
which told us that there were numerous people
trapped in elevator cars and that they needed
forcible entry saws.
So the lieutenant and I went out to look for forcible entry saws. Of course most of the rigs that were around the area, the first few rigs, there was really no tools even left on the rigatthatpoint. Sowehadtogoto--I couldn't even tell you how many rigs we looked in before we actually found the saws.
          On my way back in towards coming back
to Ladder 8's rig, coming around the rig, I had
found a saw.  I don't remember exactly what rig
was from.  I came to a complete halt because
something came down and hit the street, and I
didn't realize what it was until I looked up
further and saw that there were bodies coming
down, quite a few of them, which had to stop me
in my place because I couldn't really get back
into the building because of it.
          At that point the other officer that I
was with, the lieutenant, decided -- we hooked up
together, and we decided that we found where the
C. CARLSEN 5
command post was now I guess relocated across the
street on West, straight across from One World
Trade Center.
          We decided that before we went back in
the building let's see if we could pick up some
masks and a radio before we got into the radio,
and also check in with the command post. By this
time I guess it was probably 20 to 10 or so.
          So we went over to the command post,
which at that point my company that was at the
medical office had just gotten there also.  We
all decided that we should just team up as a team
before we went in to keep as a unit.  Of course
we checked in with the command post, and we were
told to stand by.  We checked in with Chief Ganci
and a few other officers at the scene.
          As we were waiting around, they told us
to just stand by.  They were doing something with
the eight track system.  They were trying to find
out if they can figure out how they can control
it.  So they just us to stand by.
          We waited around I guess 10, 15
minutes.  As we were standing there looking up,
we were getting an idea of -- doing like a
C. CARLSEN 6
size-up and you could see there were numerous
people hanging out of the windows.  Of course
other parts of bodies dropping.
          I guess about three minutes later you
just heard explosions coming from building two,
the south tower.  It seemed like it took forever,
but there were about ten explosions.  At the time
I didn't realize what it was.  We realized later
after talking and finding out that it was the
floors collapsing to where the plane had hit.
          We then realized the building started
to come down.  At that point everybody at the
command post took off into -- there were two
garages across.  I guess it was by Two World
Financial Center next to the Winter Garden, just
a little bit south of the north bridge.
Everybody took off into an underground garage.
          I made it in about 20 feet inside the
door, and I tripped over an EMT who I guess broke
his leg and was disabled.  I pretty much just
stayed there and tried to comfort him.  Before I
had gone into the garage, I grabbed a mask.
          At that point, that's when the building
started to come down.  It was already coming
C. CARLSEN 7
down, and you could see the force of air coming
towards you.  I was just trying to drag the EMT
down the ramp.  That's when the blast came, and
now you're just trying to don the mask.
          I don't remember -- time is now -- I
don't have a clue with it.  It seems like when it
finished collapsing I heard somebody scream that
we were trapped.  We figured that the whole
building came down on top of us and that we were
trapped inside underneath the garage.
          I decided to just crawl out to see how
far, if anything was actually up against the
building and what-have-you.  I just crawled out
and did a search of the area of the command post
and whatever else as far as you could go.  At
that point, that's when we realized that we
actually weren't trapped into the building.
          We just waited for the dust to clear
and did a search.  I found a police officer
lieutenant that needed help and took her out.  I
took her through the building and just her off on
Vesey and West Street to other police officers,
making my way through the building.
          I started heading back down towards
C. CARLSEN 8
number One World Trade Center just from Vesey and
West, going towards the north bridge.  On my way
back down, I was just looking, and I saw my
company coming out of the building or actually
from underneath the north bridge, 8 Truck coming
out.  One, two, three, four, five guys.  I was
happy to see them, that they got out.  I knew
they were in the building, but I wasn't
absolutely sure what building they actually went
into.
          As I ran into them, we just started
heading back up north on West Street.  We made it
to approximately Vesey and West, which is just
north of the bridge.  Then the second building
started to come down.
          At that point everybody just took off
in all different directions.  As far as I know,
we just went north up West Street.  I would guess
we made it up to Barclay, maybe, and whatever it
was knocked us down, the force of the wind or
maybe pieces -- I had a Scott pack on.  It
knocked me down.  I had lost the face piece.  I
just crawled underneath a DOT truck, one of the
trucks, and just waited it out.  This time I
C. CARLSEN 9
thought we were so close that I was not going to
make it.
          Pretty much the same thing, when it all
started to clear a little bit -- you had a hard
time just worrying about breathing.  Same thing,
when it started to clear, you did your searches,
you picked up who you could, and just traveled
northward.
          Of course everything was covered up and
you didn't really -- I don't recall what members
that you picked up because it was pretty chaos.
You did what you could, and that was about it.
     Q.   When the north tower was coming down,
did you have any indication?  Did you hear the
explosions again?  Did anybody warn you like they
heard on the radio or anything like that?
     A.   I didn't have a radio, because we were
coming from the medical office.  So I never did
get a radio.  So I wouldn't have heard that, if
somebody had said it.
          You did hear the explosions.  Of course
after the first one -- the first one was pretty
much looking at it like in awe.  You didn't
realize that this was really happening because
C. CARLSEN 10
you kind of just stood there and you didn't
really react as fast as you thought you were
going to.
          The second one coming down, you knew
the explosions.  Now you're very familiar with
it.  Of course when I looked up, all I could see
was the antenna coming down.  You pretty much
just pick up and take off.  Everybody was on
their own, I guess.
     Q.   All right.  Thank you, Craig.
          CHIEF KENAHAN:  The time now is 2:04
     p.m., and this concludes the interview.

FILE NO 9110506
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW FIREFIGHTER MICHAEL MACKO
INTERVIEW DATE JANUARY 25 2002
TRANSCRIBED BY LAURIE COLLINS

MACKO
CHIEF KENAHAN TODAY JARIUTARY 25TH 2002 THE TIME IS 223 PM THIS IS BATTALION CHIEF DENNIS KENAHAN OF THE SAFETY BATTALION OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK IM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW
WITH FIREFIGHTER MIKE MACKO FROM LADDER IN THE QUARTERS OF LADDER
MIKE JUST TELL THE EVENTS AS YOU RECALL THEM FROM SEPTEMBER 11TH
ON THE MORNING OF SEPTEMBER 11TH IT WAS FEW MINUTES BEFORE WAS LISTENING TO
THE RADIO IN MY YARD AND HEARD REPORT OF PLANE HITTING THE TRADE CENTER OR SKETCHY
REPORTS OF PLANE HITTING THE TRADE CENTER
WENT TO THE FRONT OF MY HOUSE WHERE
YOU COULD SEE THE TOWERS FROM MY NEIGHBORHOOD AND SAW LARGE FIRE IN THE NORTH TOWER IM
PRETTY
KID
SURE IT WAS THE NORTH TOWER
CALLED MY MOM TOLD HER TO PICK UP MY
FIGURED IT WAS GOING TO BE REAL LARGE WAS GOING TO GO DOWN AND MAYBE HELP OUT
JOB
IN THE STREET OR SOMETHING DO WHAT COULD
KNEW THE GUYS WERE GOING TO NEED HELP DOWN THERE
JUMPED ON MY MOTORCYCLE STOPPED AT

MACKO
THE LOCAL FIREHOUSE WHICH IS LADDER 130 THE OFFICER THERE SAID THEY DID HAVE RECALL GOT ON MY BIKE AND RACED OFF TO MANHATTAN WENT THROUGH THE MIDTOWN TUNNEL MADE IT TO THE FIREHOUSE IN RELATIVELY QUICK PERIOD OF TIME THEY HAD POLICE LANES SET UP AND EVERYTHING
THROUGH THE TUNNEL LOT OF EMERGENCY EQUIPMENT HEADED DOWN TO SOUTHERN MANHATTAN
GOT TO THE FIREHOUSE THE FIREHOUSE WAS EMPTY JUMPED INTO MY GEAR WENT
OUTSIDE ON VARICK STREET AN AMBULANCE THAT WAS GOING DOWN SOUTH ON VARICK STREET STOPPED
JUMPED IN THAT THEY MADE THEIR WAY DOWN WHAT THINK WAS BARCLAY STREET THATS ABOUT AS FAR AS THE AMBULANCE TOOK ME
HE STOPPED GOT OUT IT WAS PRETTY MUCH LIKE WAR ZONE AT THAT POINT HADNT
EVEN KNOWN THAT THE OTHER TOWER HAD GOTTEN HIT AT THAT POINT SAW FEW RIGS NOT TOO MANY
PEOPLE AROUND TRIED TO LOOK FOR SOME TOOLS HAD MY GEAR ON DIDNT HAVE MASK WAS
ACTUALLY LOOKING FOR MASK
AT THIS POINT THE FIRST TOWER WAS
ALREADY DOWN

THAT
OUT
INTO
DETAIL THAT IVE SEEN FROM THE PREVIOUS NIGHT
MACKO
NO NOTHING WAS DOWN AT THIS POINT MADE MY WAY ONTO WEST STREET TI11
LOOKING FOR FLASHLIGHT RADIO SOME EQUIPMENT
COULD USE TO MAYBE TRY AND SEARCH OR HELP END UP GOING SOUTH ON WEST STREET RAN
COUPLE GUYS ONE GUY FROM SQUAD 18 AND
WE WERE MAKING OUR WAY DOWN WEST STREET WE GOT JUST ABOUT SOUTH OF THE NORTH OVERPASS ABOUT 50 FEET PAST THAT WHEN THE FIRST COLLAPSE OCCURRED LOOKED UP WAS AWED
BY THOUGHT IT EXPLODED AT THE TOP
EVERYBODY GUESS AT THAT POINT STARTED RUNNING AND LUCKILY RAN NORTH WHERE CAME FROM TO TRY TO RUN OUT FROM UNDER THIS WHICH HAPPENED TO BE COLLAPSE REALIZED COULDNT WAS GOING TO STAY UNDER THE OVERPASS
REALIZED COULDNT GET OUT FROM UNDER THE COLLAPSE DOVE UNDER AN ESU TRUCK THAT WAS FACING NORTH ON THE WEST SIDE OF WEST
STREET DOVE UNDER THAT AND WAITED FOR THE BUILDING TO COME DOWN
WHEN THE BUILDING DID COME DOWN ACTUALLY THOUGHT WAS TRAPPED AND THE TRUCK WAS

MACKO
BLOWN OFF ME PUSHED OFF ME GUESS IT WAS NOT THERE AT THAT POINT WA JU REALLY IIOCKED AND DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON AT THAT POINT
DIDNT KNOW WAS REALLY REALLY SHOCKED
ENDED UP HOOKING UP WITH GUY FROM 18 ENGINE OR SQUAD 18 SCOTT THINK HIS NAME WAS WE MADE OUR WAY ACROSS WEST STREET TO THE
WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER AND BROKE THROUGH LOBBY WINDOW IN THERE AND MADE OUR WAY OUT THE OTHER
SIDE OF THE LOBBY
AT THAT POINT ENCOUNTERED SOME
GUESS EMERGENCY PERSONNEL THAT WERE TRYING TO HELP YOU KNOW GUYS THAT WERE COMING OUT OF THE
COLLAPSE AT THAT POINT SORT OF ASSESSED MYSELF AND FOUND THAT DIDNT HAVE ANY REAL
PHYSICAL DAMAGE
WHAT SEEMED TO BE FEW MINUTES
THE OTHER TOWER HAD COLLAPSED AT THAT POINT
MADE MY WAY ALONG THE WATER WAS MORE TOWARD THE WATER AT THAT POINT RAN ACROSS SOME GUYS FROM MY COMPANY WE GATHERED UP AND TO FIGURE OUT WHO WAS MISSING AND TRIED TO GET HOLD OF WHO WAS MISSING
LATER

MACKO
ENDED UP COMING BACK TO THE FIREIIOU FUUIID UUTT URIE UF UUR LIEUTTERIARIT
WAS UNACCOUNTED FOR WE MADE OUR WAY BACK
MADE MY WAY BACK DOWN TOWARDS WHAT IS NOW CALLED
GROUND ZERO AND WORKED DOWN THERE WITH WHAT SEEMED LIKE MAYBE 100 150 MEMBERS AND CHIEFS TRYING TO DO WHAT WE COULD TO HELP OUT THE SITUATION
WORKED DOWN THERE UNTIL ABOUT 130 200 WAS PRETTY EXHAUSTED IT WAS REAL HOT
DAY DID SOME WORK ON LINE GATHERED SOME EQUIPMENT FOR CHIEF PFEIFER GOT HIM MASK AND
STUFF GOT SOME RIGS RUNNING GOT PUMPER RUNNING ALL THE RIGS WERE SHUT OFF MOVED
ONE OR TWO RIGS INTO POSITION GOT THEM PUMPING SOME WATER LOT OF FIRES BURNING
THAT WAS ABOUT IT ABOUT 200 WAS
PRETTY EXHAUSTED MADE MY WAY UP TO STUYVESANT THAT WAS ABOUT IT FOR MY
PARTICIPATION IN THE FIASCO OR WHATEVER IT WAS THANK YOU MIKE
CHIEF KENAHAN THE TIME NOW IS 229 AND THIS CONCLUDES THE INTERVIEW
File No. 9110507
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
           MR. ANTHONY DeMAIO
   Interview Date:  January 28, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
A. DeMAIO 2
          MR. FEILER:  Today's date is January
     28th, 2002.  The time now is 944 hours.
     This is Lieutenant Monty Feiler with the
     Fire Department of the City of New York.
     I'm conducting an interview with the
     following individual.
          Please state your name, rank and
     assigned area.
          MR. DeMAIO:  Anthony DeMaio, assistant
     deputy director, fleet services, 58th
     Street.
          MR. FEILER:  Of the Fire Department of
     the City of New York.  We're interviewing
     him regarding the events of September 11th,
     2001.  Also present for the interview is
     Investigator Fabiola Quevedo.
     Q.   You can go ahead and begin on the
morning of September 11th, how you first became
aware and what your actions were that morning.
     A.   Like work any other day here.  It's a
shop.  I actually had left the building.  I think
I ran up to the post office and came back.  On
the way back from the post office, I saw there
was smoke coming from one of the towers.  When I
A. DeMAIO 3
reached the shop, at that point no one knew what
was going on, although it seemed like an
accident.
          Most of the guys, most of the
supervisors, were already up on the roof so they
had a clear view of what was going on.  I
proceeded up to the roof.  At this point we
didn't know what was really happening, although
it looked like an airplane or something struck
the building.
I came back downstairs. At that point itwasonTV. TheyhadtheTVoninthe supervisors' room. At that point we didn't receive any call yet from our boss.
     Q.   About what time was that?
     A.   This was right after that first plane
hit the first tower.
          I came down here from upstairs.  At
this point when I was down here -- as soon as I
made it downstairs to find out what was going on,
what we were doing, the second plane hit the
building, the second building.
          Sometime in the next couple minutes we
got a call from the control room over at 34th
A. DeMAIO 4
Street.  That's when Tom McDonald, our boss, he
requested that we all report to the area.
Normally we do that on a fourth alarm duty or
major accidents.  In a major incident, one of us
from either side, depending who was involved,
responds.  In this case he requested us all down
there.
          Me and Mike Felice, my boss, Mike
Felice, left here, headed into Manhattan, which
was -- everything was jammed up.  We took the
Midtown Tunnel.  As a matter of fact, as we're
going into the tunnel, there was four -- we were
trying to follow a police car down into the
tunnel.  There were four firefighters on foot --
they couldn't go any further with their personal
car, because everyone was told to report down
there -- which we picked up and got them into
lower Manhattan.
          We dropped them off.  We get down to
West Street.  We were pretty far down West
Street, as a matter of fact.
     Q.   Do you know where you dropped off the
firefighters?
     A.   The firefighter was on -- if I'm not
A. DeMAIO 5
mistaken, it was on Broadway.  As we were coming
down, I think on Broadway.  Broadway comes down;
right?
Q. Yeah.
     A.   Yeah, it was on Broadway somewhere.  He
was not completely downtown.  It was somewhere in
the teens, I believe.  We ended up dropping them
all off at that point, because one of the guy's
firehouses was there and then from there they
all --
     Q.   Do you know their names?
     A.   No.  I didn't know who they were.  We
just knew they were firefighters, because they
were asking police in front of us for a lift.
They couldn't go any further, and we ended up
taking them.
          I think when we pulled up it looked
pretty far down.  We were probably parked around
I think it was Murray or Warren when we pulled up
to the scene.  At that point when we got out of
the car, we realized that the first tower went
down.  There was no tower there.  We already
realized that something happened.
          We were trying to raise our other
A. DeMAIO 6
halves from 34th Street on the radio.  No
response.  When the tower came down, we knew that
they were there before us.  We were starting to
get a little concerned.  There was no response.
Communications were down.  We weren't able to
communicate with any of our mechanics.  We
weren't able to communicate back to the shop.
          So we're starting towards the scene.
It had to be maybe -- we were practically
underneath it.  We were on the other side of the
pedestrian bridge.  Definitely we were on the
other side of the bridge.  All of a sudden --
yeah, we were, because the pedestrian bridge goes
over to the high school.
          That's when we heard the rumble.  We
looked up, and the second tower was coming down.
We turned around.  We run out of here.  I lose my
boss.  I couldn't find him for a while.  I
continued running north.  Then after a while
everything started to settle down, I started to
work my way back.
          At this point now -- we still couldn't
find anybody.  Now I even lost Mike.  I couldn't
find him.  What happened was Mike had ducked into
A. DeMAIO 7
the high school.  That's why I knew where we
were, because we were already past that bridge.
When he ran back, he saw someone had made it into
the high school, and he ducked into the high
school.  I didn't notice that.  I just continued
going up.
          After everything settled down a little
bit, some of the dust settled down, we started to
work our way back again.  At this point we found
McDonald, Tom McDonald.  He was all covered in
soot and dust.  He was all right.  A few minutes
later we ran into the other guys we were looking
for:  Tom Curty, Andy Diamond, I think Lou
Morbelli was with them also.  They were there
actually before the first tower came down.  They
were there before we were.
          Basically that was it up to the point
where the tower came down.  Then it was just like
trying to find where everybody was.  We didn't
know where all our guys were.  We knew there were
a lot of guys down there, a lot of the guys from
the emergency trucks respond.  We spent a good
time just making sure we found where they were
and they were okay.
A. DeMAIO 8
          Then we just started to go through --
everything started to settle down, and we started
to go through the place and try to make sense of
everything.  It was (inaudible).
     Q.   Where do you think you were at that
point?
     A.   Most of the time after the building
came down, we were probably underneath the
pedestrian bridge, in that area.
     Q.   On West Street?
     A.   Yeah, on West Street.  That's where
they set up the command post.
Q. Oh, okay.
     A.   Once it was a little -- after a couple
hours when everything started to settle down, we
started to -- actually before that we did a
walk -- we did a search.  We searched through one
side.  We came like through the Merrill Lynch
building, I guess -- no, the exchange, American
Express building, which was across from the
towers.  We walked around through the back of
that.
          When we came up on -- over here
somewhere.  It was actually -- I forget the name
A. DeMAIO 9
of the street.  North End?
     Q.   Had the second building collapsed yet?
     A.   Yeah.  No, what happened, like I said,
we were walking towards the scene.  That's when
we heard the rumbling and the second building
started coming down.  That's when we ran.
     Q.   So you got there after the first
building collapsed?
     A.   Yes, after the first building collapsed
and just prior to the second building coming
down.
          Basically what we normally do at any
operation, normal operation, is make sure that
the apparatus is fueled, make sure that
everything is running, there was no problems
mechanically on it, whether it's apparatus or
ambulances or whatever it is.
          But in this case we had apparatus that
was totally destroyed, partially destroyed,
abandoned.  We spent the next week basically
trying to salvage anything that we thought was
salvageable that we could kickback into service.
          Our concern was that we lost so many
pieces that if there's anything here that we can
A. DeMAIO 10
get back into service, you know, get it back to
the shop, get it cleaned up, get it working, and
get it back to the house, at least they'll have
something, because there was a lot of pieces
gone.
          That's what we spent the next week
doing, basically, is finding apparatus that was
abandoned, getting them to run.  Most of them had
all the glass blown out of them, full of soot,
dust and debris.  Getting it back to the shop.
Same thing with ambulances.
          Then we tried to make -- we kept a
running log of what we found along the way that
was beyond repair.  We were pulling them into the
shop whatever possible so we could keep track of
at least what we had.
          Basically that's what we did.
     Q.   Is there anything else you think is
important?
     A.   That's it.
     Q.   On behalf of the department, I want to
thank you.
          MR. FEILER:  We'll conclude the
     interview at 953 hours.
File No. 9110508
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW MR. MICHAEL FELICE
Interview Date: January 28, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
M. FELICE 2
MR. FEILER: Today's date is January 28th, 2002. The time now is 1003 hours. This is Investigator Monty Feiler with the Fire Department of the City of New York. I'm conducting an interview with the following individual.
Please state your name, rank and assigned area of command.
MR. FELICE: Michael Felice, department director, Fleet Services.
MR. FEILER: Regarding the events of September 11th, 2001.
Q. If you can just tell us on the morning
of September 11th how you became aware of the incident and what actions were taken.
A. Approximately 8:45 I received a page on my pager, and it stated that it was a third
alarm, a plane crashed into the World Trade Center. I looked outside, and I basically saw it was a beautiful, clear day. The first thing that came to my mind is a small little Cessna flying around Manhattan and maybe the wing clipped the building.
So within minutes I received another
M. FELICE 3
page, and it was a fifth alarm, a plane crashed
into the World Trade Center. At that point we
put the news on the television, and we actually saw smoke coming from the tower.
Basically what happened at that point I realized that it was more serious than a small Piper wing clipping the tower. I went up to the
roof of this building, and I had a clear view of the tower and I can see smoke just pouring out of the tower. At that point is when the second
plane went into the south tower. The south tower was struck with the second plane.
At that point I came downstairs and I
picked up my coat and my handy talky. Tony DeMaio and myself responded to the incident, because we knew that there was going to be plenty of apparatus there. We were going to bring mechanics there to make sure that everything pertaining to fleet services was under control.
So we left together, and we had a problem getting through the Midtown Tunnel because of a major traffic jam. We also picked up some firefighters that abandoned their personal vehicle heading towards the Midtown
M. FELICE 4
Tunnel. They came with us. They got in our car. A Police Department van was in front of
us, and they sort of made room for us to get by. Once we got by the major traffic jam right over here in Long Island City, heading to the Queens Midtown Tunnel, we were flying at that point. There was no traffic in front of us, and we shot through the tunnel, shot downtown.
We got to the scene, and I guess we probably parked -- we got down to West Street, and I guess we were around -- it would either be Murray or Barclay, somewhere in that area, because there were fire trucks lined up. We got as close as we can get.
Then we grabbed our jackets and our turnout coats and radios, and we walked towards the tower. Generally we would go up as close as we can get where the equipment is and see if anything was operating at that point.
While we were walking towards the north tower, at that point the south tower already came down. The south tower already came down, and we were walking towards the north tower. We probably would have walked right up to the
M. FELICE 5
command post.
We passed underneath a bridge, a foot
bridge. We passed underneath a foot bridge. I remember that. I'm looking at this tower, and
Tony DeMaio was with me. I can remember telling him, "Tony, I don't believe what I'm seeing. I
can't believe this, you know, the smoke pouring out."
All at once as I'm looking at it, I see chunks of the tower starting to come down and it was picking up speed. I can remember saying, "It's coming down." Right at that point firefighters were rushing past us. I almost got knocked over. I turned around and said, "Tony, run."
I can remember turning around, and things were flying out of my pockets. I couldn't worry about that at that point, because I was running. I ran to the left, and Tony ran to the right. I'm looking back, and I said, "God, look at this!" I can remember saying that. I could see this cloud following.
The corner of my eye, I saw
firefighters diving into a doorway. There was a
M. FELICE 6
woman standing at the door holding this door open, a steel door, and they were diving in. I said I'm going to go in that direction. So I went to the left, and I went that building.
When I got into the building, it was a school. Right after I got in, the door was slammed closed. At that point is when all the soot and debris was whooshing by. When I got into the building there, I see firefighters
laying on the floor coughing up smoke and stuff. They were laying down on the ground.
I was concerned for myself at that
point also because I said I don't know really whereIamandhowsafeIam. AllIknowis outside there's a big building coming down, and is it going to come on top of this small building and just crush it? I don't know.
I was in there for approximately, I
don't know, maybe ten minutes. It seemed like forever. Basically when we opened the door to go out, you can just about see your hand in front of your face at that point. There was a lot of dust still in the air. The building was down at that point, but the dust was all over.
M. FELICE 7
I tried to raise Tony DeMaio on the radio, and I couldn't get him on the radio. I was getting nervous because I didn't know -- I knew he ran to the right, but I didn't know if he was able to get himself protected somewhere.
I was walking around looking for Tony
and any of the mechanics. I knew that Tom Curty was there. About a half hour later is when I
sort of met up with them. For that half hour I
was trying to raise whoever I could on the radio, and I was getting no response. Finally we met up.
Q. What frequently were you using?
A. We were using -- you know, I don't remember.
Q. Was that the 400 frequency? The 800 or 400? The fleet services tower?
A. Right, right.
We met up, and we all got together.
Probably by now like an hour passed by. There was so much soot and smoke and dust in the air you couldn't even at that point get too much closer to the tower where the tower was yet until things settled down a little more.
M. FELICE 8
The rest, we just tried to recover whatever vehicles we could recover to get them back. We knew that there was a lot of vehicles that were gone and a lot of vehicles that were disabled that maybe could be repaired.
Then for the next week we did the best
we could to get whatever vehicles we could repaired and back on the street so the citizens
of the city can still have the protection that
they had. We lost almost 100 pieces, and we probably repaired 200 pieces to get them back out on the street.
We were towing them into the shop here.
All the windows were blown out, and the mechanics were digging in and getting all the dust and
concrete powder out. We were cleaning with
hoses, putting glass back in them and getting
them back out, you know.
We spent the next week doing that. We were working 12 to 16 hours a day, 7 days in a row, 7 days a week.
Q. The firefighters that you dropped off, do you know where you dropped them off?
A. Yeah. One firefighter asked us to be
M. FELICE 9
dropped off at his company. I don't remember the company, but it was on the way, and we just momentarily just stopped in the middle of the street, virtually. He said, "Okay. My house is right here." I said, "Okay. Good luck."
I said, "Most likely, your company's gone. They're down there." What I meant by that, "gone," I meant gone out of the firehouse; they're at the job. He said, "Okay." I said, "Good luck."
The other two guys, they came with us all the way down to the job.
Q. Okay. So wherever you parked your car -- you said it was West Street and --
A. It was on West Street, right on West Street. We got as far as we can get. Then it was just fire trucks and ambulances.
Q. Did you get their names? A. Excuse me?
Q. Did you get their names? A. Of the firefighters?
Q. Yeah.
A. No, I did not. It was just chaotic.
Q. Did you ever get to the command post?
M. FELICE 10
A. No, never got to the command post. We were heading basically -- that little traffic jam
we hit heading to the Midtown Tunnel. If we had been able to get right to the tunnel without that little bit of a traffic jam, we would have been
at the command post, because we're only talking two minutes in time.
I didn't waste any time. There was no
time wasted picking up the firefighters. We were stopped. They just abandoned their car. They abandoned their car on this viaduct heading to the Midtown Tunnel, their civilian car. They had a helmet in their hand and a coat, and they got
in our car.
The two of them came right with us down to the scene. One of them we dropped off at his house. I forget what house it was. I didn't think of getting their names.
Everything was -- all I could remember
was on the way was seeing people -- it was unbelievable. No one was crossing the street. People were just standing on the sides, looking
at the tower. There was no traffic. Nothing was moving. We were flying downtown. Nothing was
M. FELICE 11
moving. Nothing in our way. Everything was just stopped. People were just on sidewalks. They weren't crossing the street. I can remember
that.
We weren't talking much in the car
either on the way down. It was like everybody was nervous because we didn't know, you know. I've been to plenty of different things before,
but nothing like that. Of course nobody has.
Q. Is there anything else you think is important that you want to add?
A. I can't think of anything right now.
Q. The department thanks you for cooperating with this.
MR. FEILER: We'll conclude the interview at 1015 hours.
File No. 9110509
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         FIREFIGHTER KIRK LONG
   Interview Date:  January 28, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
K. LONG 2
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today's date is
     January 28th, 2002.  The time is 1115 hours.
     This is Battalion Chief Frank Congiusta of
     the Safety Battalion of the New York City
     Fire Department.  I'm conducting an
     interview with the following individual.
          Please state your name.
          FIREFIGHTER LONG:  Kirk Long.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Kirk Long is a
     firefighter assigned to Engine 1 of the New
     York City Fire Department.  We are at the
     quarters of Engine 1.  This interview is
     regarding the events of September 11th,
     2001.
     Q.   Tell us your story.
     A.   The alarm came in while we were coming
back from an EMS run.  It was before 9:00 in the
morning.  They had stated that a plane went into
the towers.  As we passed Sixth Avenue, we could
see the World Trade towers, and we could see
smoke coming from the towers.  I kind of told the
guys on the back step it was probably a terrorist
attack because it was too nice of a day for this
to happen.
K. LONG 3
          Arriving at the World Trade towers, we
went to the command post.  We talked to Chief
Pfeifer.  Lieutenant Desperito talked to him in
the lobby.
     Q.   Of the north tower?
     A.   Of the north tower.
     Q.   How did you get in there?
     A.   We walked through the main doors.  I'm
not too familiar with that area down there.  At
that time there was a lot of glass laying around.
Mostly we were watching people diving off the top
of the building than we were watching where we
were walking in.
          Again, we went to the command post with
Andy Desperito.  They gave him the fire warden's
phone to use when we got to the 11th floor, to
the 22nd floor, which they told us there was a
command post with the Port Authority on the 22nd
floor.
          We made it up to the 22nd floor.  We
stood there for a couple minutes.  I believe Andy
Desperito talked to the battalion through the
fire warden phones.  We did locate somebody at
the end of the hall, but everything was blown
K. LONG 4
out.  The ceiling had fallen.  The drop ceiling
had blown to the floor.  Some of the walls were
blown out.  So Andy and I had crawled down the
hallway to get to the Port Authority command
post.
          After that we went back to the members,
and when the building started to shake.  I don't
remember anybody telling us to get out, but there
was a Port Authority person with us and I believe
he had orders to leave.  Again, I think that's
maybe why we were going.
          Let me see what else.
     Q.   Do you know what stairway it was?
     A.   I believe it was B.  Again, I was
watching every person coming down, looked at
their face, just to make them happy that they
were getting out and we were going in and
everything was okay.
          We were also with 16 Engine on the 22nd
floor.  When the building shook, I was right next
to an elevator shaft with Andy, crawling down the
hallway.  I was waiting for a flame to come up
from the basement because I believed something in
the basement blew up.  Nothing like that
K. LONG 5
happened, so I was waiting for a flame to come
down from a plane.  Nothing like that happened.
Still at that time I never knew that the south
tower had gone down.
          I guess at that time we talked to the
Port Authority.  I believe he had to leave, so I
think we were going as well.  So Engine 1 and
Engine 16 start to walk down the stairs with the
Port Authority.  We came across a lady named
Josephine.
          I helped her out for a while.  I really
don't remember what floor she was on.  I was
helping her out.  I was blocking traffic a little
bit, so they told me to go ahead and go and the
next group of guys were going to get her.
          Walking down the stairs, sharing my
mask with a PB officer, a girl.  She was having a
tough time breathing.  So I gave her my mask to
use on the way down.
          Also I came across an aide from the 2nd
Battalion.  Castano I think his name was.  I did
some work in his house years ago on Staten
Island.  Like I said, he was in the 2nd
Battalion.  He was in the stairwell waiting for
K. LONG 6
the chief, and then he was going to come down
with us.
          Making our way down the stairs, there
wasn't too many people around.  We were like the
only company coming down.  We reached the lobby.
Again, somebody there told us to leave.  I can't
remember that part.
          There was a heavyset lady at the front
doe trying to get out.  There was so much broken
glass.  So I took my gear off, laid it on the
ground so she could roll out and get out of the
building.  As I was leaving, there were still
guys running in.
          I get outside, still helping people
out, still not knowing the south tower had gone
down.  We get outside, help some old man out.  We
helped him halfway down the block, I guess.  We
heard a noise like the plane was still coming
in -- like another plane was coming in.  We
turned around to look, and that's when our
building was going down.
          I was covered up with debris.  I
couldn't see anything, couldn't talk, choking
from all the dust.  I had my cylinder, but of
K. LONG 7
course I was out of air from walking down all the
steps and helping out the PB officer.
          Another firefighter found me laying on
the ground.  He helped me to another building,
which this was some clean air inside the
building.  There was a lot of mothers and babies
there.  I was ready to leave.  They were a little
shook up because I was covered up with all this
dust.
          I was leaving, and they started to cry.
They didn't want me to go without them.  So I
stayed for maybe 10 or 15 minutes until it
cleared up a little bit.  Then I walked them over
to the west side where there were boats and fresh
air.
          After that I cleaned up with the rest
of the members of Engine 1, all but Andy
Desperito, which I later found out that day that
he made it out but he didn't survive.
          Later we talked to the chief, let him
know who was alive and who was missing.  Then we
reported back to Engine 1 just because of
everything was going on.  And that's about --
     Q.   That's about it?
K. LONG 8
     A.   That's about it, yeah.
     Q.   Anything else you want to say?
     A.   Not that I can remember now, no.
     Q.   Thanks a lot for your cooperation.  I
appreciate it.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  It's 25 after 11, and
     that's the end of this interview.
File No. 9110510
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
       FIREFIGHTER PATRICK MARTIN
   Interview Date:  January 28, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
P. MARTIN 2
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Today is January 2th,
     2002.  The time is 1230 hours.  This is
     Battalion Chief Frank Congiusta of the
     Safety Battalion of the New York City Fire
     Department.  I'm conducting an interview
     with the following individual.
          Please state your name.
          FIREFIGHTER MARTIN:  Fireman Patrick
     Martin.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  Fireman Martin is
     assigned to Engine 229 of the New York City
     Fire Department.  We are at the quarters of
     Engine 229 regarding the events of September
     11th, 2001.
     Q.   Pat, in your own words, if you would
please tell us what happened.
     A.   We heard the second alarm come in for
the World Trade Center.  We were still in
quarters.  From our quarters you can see the
World Trade Center.  We have a veranda.  We went
on the roof.  We were watching.  Roll call
happened.  We all went down to the apparatus
floor.  We thought that we might be going, so we
were readying ourselves.
P. MARTIN 3
          We were out in the street.  I saw the
second explosion happen on the south tower.  I
thought it was a radiant heat explosion to the
building.  I didn't see a plane hit, but we saw
the large ball of fire.  It seemed seconds after
that we got dispatched to go to the north tower.
          As we were responding, we heard the
total recall come in.  We took the Brooklyn
Bridge over.  We got one flat tire as we were
going.  We kept going.  I guess we were traveling
west on Vesey Street.  We came to West Street.
There was no way to go south.  So everybody got
off the rig other than the chauffeur.  The
chauffeur started heading north.
          We started walking south on West
Street.  We got under the first pedestrian
walkover.  We could see the people jumping.  We
could see a lot of people jumping.  You could
hear them.
          We were going down, and it seemed like
there was a command post along West Street
approximately -- I guess it would be this Merrill
Lynch building.  Maybe it was a little further
down.  They told us to move 105's rig.  That was
P. MARTIN 4
the first assignment we got.  105 was parked in
the middle of West Street, and they wanted to
clear the way for the ambulances to get through.
          So we put down all of our gear.  I
wasn't assigned chauffeur, but I am a chauffeur.
So they had me get into 105's rig, and basically
we backed it up maybe 100 feet or so to get it to
the side of the road.
          At that point there the lieutenant
said, okay, just stand here.  We'll get our gear
together, and he'll go get reassigned.  Time was
weird.  I don't know if he came back and had gone
back or he was told to go to another command
post.  But we were standing there for a while.
Basically we were on West Street in front of the
hotel.
          That's where we saw Timmy Stackpole
standing there.  We looked and he was just on the
west side of West Street, basically, just north
of the south pedestrian bridge.  I don't know how
long it was after that that the towers came down.
          We were looking up.  You saw the smoke
coming out.  We really didn't have an assignment
yet.  Our lieutenant came back.  I can't remember
P. MARTIN 5
if he actually gave us an assignment of what we
were going to do or what, but it was right then
that we heard the noise.
          My lieutenant said he looked down at
the first floor, and he auto see the first floor
of the south tower like exploding out.  I looked
up.  I looked up, and the sky was filled with
that debris cloud.  You could see the debris
coming down, pretty much toward us.  We were
standing underneath it.
          At that point there we made 180 degree
turn, and we started running south on West
Street.  I'm pretty sure we made it under the
south pedestrian bridge.  I don't know whether we
got all the way to Albany Street or not, but we
were able to make a turn and we were alongside
the building.
          We didn't know that the whole tower had
come down until later on.  We heard it and we
knew -- the whole sky was filled with the debris.
You could see it coming down.  Whatever it was
was coming right at us.  So we went.
          When we were there, there was a bunch
of civilians there, a bunch of firemen.  We were
P. MARTIN 6
all choking.  The cloud came in, blinded,
choking.  We told a couple civilians to pull
their T-shirt or shirt over their face.
          I had my mask on.  I didn't use it
because I knew I was still breathing and I didn't
know what was going to happen in the next ten
seconds.  So I said my Hail Marys.
          There was pretty much a good quiet
there for a while.  There was an eerie kind of
silence.  Then you could start to see again.
Civilians were starting to cry and carry on.  I
gave a little bit of air to people that were
complaining that they couldn't breathe, told them
to go toward the water, go west.
          At that point I had no clue where my
company was.  There was nobody there.  I started
calling out for 229.  I heard nothing.
     Q.   You heard nothing on the radio like to
get out of the building or anything?
     A.   After the silence, the radio became
really crowded.  So my looking for my company
didn't seem that important rather than the
maydays that came through.
          I headed down toward West Street where
P. MARTIN 7
I saw my company the last, and I found my
lieutenant.  I was control man of the day, so I
had a radio, he had a radio.  We decided to split
up.  He made me go further south.  I went not
much further and decided, you know, just calling
out to try to find our company.
          Again, time-wise I don't know how long
it was.  I never found anybody.  He found two
more guys.  One guy was pretty much blinded by
the dust.  He couldn't open his eyes.  So he sent
the other guy and the guy who was really hurt
with his eyes and took them to I guess it would
be the Hudson River there.  I guess there was a
boat there that was going across to the hospital.
He put the two of them on.
          Then I met my lieutenant again, and he
wanted me to go on the boat.  I told him I wasn't
leaving.  We were still missing one guy.  So
after I told my lieutenant I wasn't leaving him
alone, we split up again.  This time I came up.
I came up because we were by the water.  We came
up Albany.  I went north on whatever street, End
Street, to about Liberty Street and went back to
the debris field.  There was a lot of debris
here.
P. MARTIN 8
          Then I heard the noise again.  I don't
even remember seeing anything of the north tower
coming down.  I don't know if I saw it or not.
Climbed out of the debris field, and I was
alongside Liberty Street.  I know I made the turn
here.
          In the building there was like a cutout
where I could get like underneath the building.
There must have been a door there; I can't
remember if there was.  This time I remembered I
was all by myself thinking, oh, now I'm going to
die by myself.  I could hear the building shaking
as the building was coming down.  You could hear
the whole building shake.
          Again, you couldn't see, you couldn't
breathe.  I pulled my hood over just my mouth and
my nose to try to keep the heavy dust out.  I
didn't use my mask.  I just waited until you
could see again.
          When you could see again, I looked on
West Street.  There was nobody moving on West
Street.  I couldn't hear.  There was no noise on
the radio.
P. MARTIN 9
          I must have gone back toward Liberty --
toward End Street or End Avenue, because I
couldn't get into West Street.  I found my
lieutenant.  At this point here we couldn't find
the other guy.  He started asking for him on the
radio.  We were still missing one guy.
          We looked around.  We decided at that
point we weren't going to separate each other.
We were going to stay together now.  We looked
around the debris field.  We looked around this
whole area where we were.  We couldn't find
anybody.  Time was moving along.
          We couldn't get in touch with our
chauffeur, so then at that point we decided to
go -- we had to go all the way up to this park to
get around, because you couldn't go along West
Street anymore.  So you had to go up.  I think we
were on the other side of -- I don't know.  What
is this school?  The school is that far?
     Q.   The school is up here by Chambers
Street.
     A.   No, that's way too far.
     Q.   You probably came around to Vesey,
because then you could come on Vesey.
P. MARTIN 10
     A.   All right.  Vesey was where everybody
was kind of staging later on?
Q. Yes.
     A.   Yeah, we must have come around this
park.  Is this all building here?
     Q.   Yeah, that's all building.
     A.   Yeah, then it must have been here.
Yes.
     Q.   You could have walked through this
building.
     A.   I don't know.  The tall park, I don't
remember where it was.  This was all gone.  We
found him I think it was further north like they
kept on pushing him north.  Then we did find him.
          We stayed there for a little while,
went back along West Street, and eventually -- I
think the last guy we found on the north side of
West Street.  I don't know how he got there, but
he said -- he didn't have a radio.  He said he
said, "229, this is Fireman such and such.  I'm
okay."  He said somebody on the radio said,
"Okay," thinking that it was us, and he started
going to work.  We never heard any of that.
          Now there were the four of us.  At that
P. MARTIN 11
point there we went back to the debris field.  We
did some hose stretching.  We really were pretty
done by that point to do any kind of rescue work.
We helped guys stretch lines, and they had us
stage at different spots along the way.
          We were lucky.
     Q.   Anybody that walked away was lucky.
     A.   When the first tower came down, it was
obvious if we would have ran one way -- if you
went down Liberty Street -- we could have went to
Liberty or north -- we were dead.  We just ran
this way, and it was the right way to go.  We all
went the same way; how, who knows.
     Q.   Anything else?
     A.   No, not that I can think of.
          CHIEF CONGIUSTA:  The time is 12:50,
     and that concludes this interview.
          Thanks a lot for your cooperation, Pat.
          FIREFIGHTER MARTIN::  Thanks Chief.
File No. 9110511
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
         LIEUTENANT HOWARD HAHN
   Interview Date:  February 1, 2002
Transcribed by Laurie A. Collins
H. HAHN 2
          MR. FEILER:  Today's date is February
     1st, 2002.  The time now is 936 hours.  This
     is Monty Feiler of the Fire Department of
     the City of New York.  I'm conducting an
     interview with the following individual.
          Please state your name, rank and
     assigned command.
          MR. FEILER:  Lieutenant Hahn of
     Battalion 50.
          LIEUTENANT HAHN:  Of the New York City
     Fire Department.  We're conducting an
     interview in the Division 4 conference room
     regarding the events of September 11th,
     2001.  Also present is --
          MS. MAGGI:  Diana Maggi.
          MR. FEILER:  Of the Bureau of
     Investigations and Trials.
     Q.   What I'd like you to do is if you can
just relate a scenario of what happened on the
morning of September 11th, how you became
involved, and go up to the second building
collapse.
     A.   I heard the initial crash over my
scanner.  I contacted Captain Sickles of
H. HAHN 3
Battalion 45.  That day I was detailed to
Battalion 45 as their conditions car.  I went
back to the battalion.  I picked up Captain
Sickles.  He was on the phone with citywide.
They told us to respond in to the scene.
          We responded down to the staging area,
which was at that time Vesey and West.  Upon
arrival I parked my car near north and Vesey.  I
went directly to the treatment area or triage
area at 3 World Financial Center, American
Express building.  Captain Sickles went over to
the command post or proceeded to the command
post.
          We started having a treatment area
outside the American Express building.  After
approximately 10 or 15 minutes we felt that it
was safer to go inside the American Express
building, which we did.
          About 10 to 15 minutes after we were
inside the building, the first tower came down.
At that point we moved towards the rear of the
building, and then someone started telling us
there's a possibility of a gas leak.  So we
started moving north along West Street, north
H. HAHN 4
towards I guess Murray Street, when the second
building started coming down.
          At that point we started -- everything
basically became chaos.  Everyone went left,
right.  There was no control at all.  Most of the
equipment was left in the American Express
building around the streets there.
          After the second building settled, I
heard over the radio that they were setting up a
command post at West and Vesey, with that, I
proceeded over to that area, and I started taking
instructions from the -- I think at that time it
was Chief Goldfarb.
     Q.   When you first heard the initial
incident over your scanner, were you on duty?
     A.   I was on duty as conditions 45 that
morning.
     Q.   You said you called --
     A.   I called Captain Sickles and advised
him that I heard this on the scanner.  I know he
has a scanner too.  He told me to respond back to
the battalion.  I know he got on the phone with
the tour commander, who apparently I guess
instructed us to go directly into the scene.
H. HAHN 5
     Q.   Captain Sickles went with you?
     A.   Yes.
     Q.   In your command car?
     A.   Correct.
     Q.   At any time were you given any
instruction over the radio or telephone where to
respond to?
     A.   Over the radio we heard staging was set
up at Vesey and West.
     Q.   You responded after the first building
was struck but before the second building?
     A.   Correct.
     Q.   What route did you take down there?
     A.   We went through the tunnel, FDR Drive.
We got off at I guess it was the Manhattan
Bridge, because traffic started backing up.  We
started proceeding through I guess the Village or
whatever it is down there, on the streets.
     Q.   Did you get any further instruction on
the radio?
     A.   No.
     Q.   Did you stay on Queens or citywide?
     A.   At that time we were on citywide.
     Q.   When you got into the area, where did
H. HAHN 6
you park your vehicle?
     A.   When I got there I parked on Vesey
Street close to North End.
     Q.   By that time was the second building
hit?
     A.   Most probably.  I don't know the exact
time.  I think it was probably already hit.
     Q.   Then you made your way over to the
American Express building?
     A.   I made my way over to the American
Express building where Captain Pinkus was the
command officer of that area.
     Q.   Did you see any other EMS people?
     A.   There were approximately -- at that
time when I arrived there were at least eight
units with stretchers and equipment at the
American Express.  There were numerous units
already at the scene.
     Q.   Did you know any of them?
     A.   I'm trying to think.  I know there was
a unit from Roosevelt Hospital.  I think it was 9
Boy.  There was at least one Hazollah unit, with
two ALS, maybe a city unit.  I'm sure exactly.
There were at least eight units on the scene with
H. HAHN 7
their stretchers and equipment by the American
Express building.
     Q.   You were able to set up patient care or
triage?
     A.   We set up basically -- were setting up
triage and patient care, that area.  Then we
started to move it inside the building as a
safety zone.  So we were inside the building
approximately five, ten minutes before the first
building came down.
     Q.   What happened when the building came
down?
     A.   Well, when the first building --
originally we set up at the front of the
building, just inside, so if we saw anybody
coming we could get them inside.  When the first
building came down, we moved towards the rear of
the building closer towards -- the furthest,
towards Four World Financial, this area over
here, back of the American Express building.
          Then they were talking about possible
gas leaks and so on, so we moved out of the
building and we moved to some other buildings
along I guess it was North End Avenue.  There's I
H. HAHN 8
know a school there that we went to.  Then they
evacuated that area because they were worried
about gas leaks.  We started moving all the way
up, going up West Street.
     Q.   You stayed with Captain Sickles?
     A.   At that point -- no, Captain Sickles
went originally to the command post.  I was with
Captain -- Jace -- Captain Pinkus.  Chief
Carrasquillo came in at one point, and we started
running around.  Then at that point it really
became chaos and there was total loss of control.
     Q.   That's when the second building
collapsed?
     A.   No, we basically were towards the rear
of the American Express building I think more
here when the second building came down.  Then we
started running.  We were down near Vesey and
West Street or Vesey and North End when the
second building came down, but we were inside
both times.
     Q.   Did you see any patients at that time?
     A.   There were no real patients coming to
us.  We had a couple patients that were full of
dirt and stuff, so when the first building came
H. HAHN 9
down we got inside, but at that point they really
refused treatment, those patients.
     Q.   Your command car stayed --
     A.   My command car originally stayed at
West and Vesey.  As a hole cleared up, I moved it
up.  I was able to get around, and I moved it up
to the command post.  Then I went off to do other
triage areas and so on.  Captain Sickles gave the
keys to my command car to Dr. -- the one who's in
charge overall from the Fire Department.  The one
who took over Giordano's spot or whatever.
     Q.   John Clair?
     A.   John Clair.  He gave my keys to the
command car to John Clair.  He took off for
wherever, and I didn't see the car for two days,
and my equipment was in it.
     Q.   Is there anything else that you think
is important?  Any recollections you want to
share?
     A.   It was a hell of a day.  Initially the
first three hours (inaudible).
     Q.   Were you ever able to use your radio or
your cell phone?
     A.   My cell phone on and off I believe I
H. HAHN 10
was able to use.
     Q.   How about the department radio?
     A.   Yeah, I was able to get through, but
the transmissions was very hard.  It was very
hard to control.  You're doing basically your own
show.
     Q.   Anything else you'd like to add?  No?
Okay.  In that case, we want to thank you for
your cooperation?
          MR. FEILER:  The time now is 945 hours,
     and this concludes the interview.