1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Metabunk 2018-05-08 10-32-45.

    The ongoing eruption of Kilauea is interesting for a number of Metabunk related reasons.

    Firstly there's the association of volcanos with the solar radiation management proposals in the field of geoengineering. Volcanoes spew a lot of sulphur dioxide and ash into the air which (simplifying) makes it hazy and reflects sunlight back into space. This most famously happened with Mount Pinatubo in 1991
    https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/Volcano/
    Kilauea is a very different type of eruption — more like a big gas leak than a huge explosion, but it's still (like most active volcanos) a source of sulfur dioxide and a factor in the global climate. Studying how the increase in emissions affects things will tell us a little more about how we might use similar mechanisms for geoengineering — or how we might not want to use them if the side effects are worse than the cure. Drawing attention to the real science of geoengineering is a valuable way of reaching people who are convinced that the government is already secretly doing geoengineering with "chemtrails" being sprayed from planes.

    An even more extreme conspiracy theory is that the eruption was triggered deliberately, perhaps with a supposed mega-weapon like HAARP (which is incapable of doing anything other than briefly exciting a tiny spot of the atmosphere on the edge of space above Alaska). The reasons given for doing this will likely be related to the "Agenda 21" conspiracy theory, which says the elite want to drive people from their land and force them to live in city apartments so the elite can have the countryside for safaris and suchlike. This (fringe) belief will be bolstered by the affected land being "homesteads" – a house with a few acres.

    As that's such a nonsensical and scientifically implausible theory it's a bit tricky to address, especially with the mix of strongly felt libertarian politics. But perhaps the coverage of Kilauea will help a few people better understand the science behind eruptions, and how they are both inevitable and currently beyond the control of humanity.

    Finally the images of red hot lava rolling over people's lawns and around trees might help a few people understand the problems with the theory that unburnt trees next to burnt-out houses is evidence that the houses were zapped with energy beams from space (again as part of agenda 21). Having a very hot thing a few feet from a tree does not automatically mean the tree bursts into flames.

    For me and millions of school kids, volcanoes have always been associated with a fun and accessible side of science. Hopefully the net result of the current attention on Kilauea will be a rise in interesting in that science, and not a rise in interest in unfounded conspiracy theories.


    References:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_lower_Puna_eruption
     
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  2. Nada Truther

    Nada Truther Active Member

    Why would the Elite want to take away land that they purposefully covered with lave using their space beams and top secret science?

    That is like making someone not want to eat their sandwich by peeing on it..... That way you can have it once they don't want it.

    Kinda ruins it for the "winner", I would say.
     
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  3. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    I think volcanos are good for soil. maybe they want to grow opium.
     
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  4. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    They only have to spread a bit of lava and toxic gas to get everyone to move. In theory.
     
  5. Joe

    Joe Senior Member

    In theory anyone who lives close to a active volcano should have never moved there in the first place .
     
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  6. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    They rolled the dice, like with hurricanes, forest fires, and earthquakes.
     
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  7. Landru

    Landru Moderator Staff Member

    A bit more so here as this volcano has been erupting continuously since 1983.
     
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  8. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    I read an interesting article yesterday on the people who moved back in to an area a few miles away from the current lava flows, which was first buried under lava in 1990. Roads have been resurveyed and carved out of the lava, and houses have been put up, despite the lack of utility services. If "Agenda 21" is meant to be keeping people off the land, it's not doing very well.

    http://www.honolulumagazine.com/Honolulu-Magazine/August-2012/The-Lava-Dwellers-Big-Island-Hawaii/


    Source: https://youtu.be/fiPtwcyvhG4


     
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  9. Whitebeard

    Whitebeard Senior Member

    Similar situation on Heimaey, Iceland. About half the town was buired by a lava flow in 1973, The other half was only saved by spraying sea water onto the flow to cool and channel the flow .Now the town is growing and the buried part is slowly being chipped out of the lava and ash.
     
  10. marrowmonkey

    marrowmonkey Member

    Why are people around the globe building houses down by the shore despite the well known fact that the sea-level is going to be about 1 meter higher in 100 years?

    Or why did people in Japan build houses (entire towns) close to the beach even though they knew about the risk of tsunamis:
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...inst-tsunamis-dot-japans-coastline-180956448/

    Or why are many some world leaders wilfully ignoring climate change and the need to curb greenhouse gas emissions?
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  11. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The US Caribbean and East coasts have been hit by devastating hurricanes for millions of years. I doubt they actually calculate the odds, but people tend to think if a particular spot has not been hit in a few hundred years they will be fine.
     
  12. Whitebeard

    Whitebeard Senior Member

    Not to mention the advantages of certain locations such as fertile soil, access to natural resourses, access to transport routes (including the sea) etc - can out weigh the possible dangers of hurricanes, eathquakes, volcanic erruptions etc.
     
  13. Joe

    Joe Senior Member

    Seems that couple likes the Kona Gold :) Wow 5000 a lot on a lava flow . Id take the chance for that price .
     
  14. Joe

    Joe Senior Member

    Yes but our property is always there even if our houses blow away we can rebuild .
     
  15. Landru

    Landru Moderator Staff Member

    My point (which I did not make very clear) is that everyone on Hilo side knows they live on borrowed time due to the near constant threat of lava flow.
     
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  16. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Looks like it might progress beyond oozing lava:
    https://apnews.com/8906337a5bf84f2f...Hawaii-volcano-could-have-explosive-eruption?
     
  17. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    I've been monitoring the Kilauea earthquake activity. I find it interesting.
    USGS has their Real-time (almost) earthquake notification map.
    I have it set to Hawaii area, and on "satellite view" (because you can see a plume)
    (settings are found in the upper right of the page)
    (I think Google Earth has a similar function, reporting)


    USGS LINK

    kilaeua_shot.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
  18. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    ...and they also have live web-cams.
    But they are often not working, or are snapshots every hour or so (??)....
    HERE
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
  19. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    Yes.... if the caldera lava sinks below the water table....ground water might form a temporary crust, which at some point may explode like a cork off a champagne bottle. (extreme example)

    ...or spatter in your kitchen like when water is dropped into hot oil. (practical example)
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
  20. Marlin Angell

    Marlin Angell New Member

    First of all I moved here a year ago and I live in the affected area, I don't see that anyone else speaking in here has 'boots on the ground' experience with this situation to understand exactly what's going on.

    Secondly, this isn't a Mt. Saint Helen's or Pompeii style Volcano, it's a 'shield volcano', so go ahead and research what that means to better understand why us ignorant swine would possibly move out here.

    Third, we live here because land is cheap and government, generally speaking, stays the hell out of our business here because so many people do assume that this isn't a safe place to live. Truth is this region is much safer than most places I've lived for a number of reasons, but let's just address the lava: Have you seen any reports of ANY CASUALTIES WHATSOEVER FROM THIS VOLCANIC EVENT? No? Do you know why?

    Clearly you don't as reading this thread has shown me. The reason why is that we get PLENTY of forewarning here before an event, an event the size we are experiencing now has not taken place since 1955 and this one so far is perfectly mimicking that one so we know EXACTLY WHERE IT WILL HIT US NEXT!!!

    Finally let me address this fear porn about the volcano exploding on our heads: The Kileau crater is so far away from all population centers that the odds of some rocks shooting out of it and landing on someone are almost nil when the park is closed as it is now.

    I'm sure we can all agree that risk is inherit in life and there is a trade of anywhere you life, the trade off here on the Island of Hawaii is this: possible lava flow over your land in certain regions in exchange for living in one of the most lush and beautiful places on earth on the cheap.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
  21. Marlin Angell

    Marlin Angell New Member

    First of all no lava is ever going to flow on Hilo, you don't understand how this island has evolved.

    Secondly: Even in Puna we aren't: 'living on borrowed time'. If an event occurs we move or we leave. No one dies in these situations...not with dozens of volcanologists living here permanently using state of the art equipment to constantly monitor the situation!!!

    You guys do realize that Hawaii is still in the United States of America and that we have a University here, right?

    This island is mapped out into 7 different lava zones:
    lava zone 0: lava is currently flowing there.
    lava zone 1: lava could be flowing there in 5 minutes
    lava zone 2: lava could be flowing there in 5 hours
    lava zone 3: lava could be flowing there in 5 months
    lava zone 4: lava could be flowing there in 5 decades
    lava zone 5: lava could be flowing there in 500 years
    lava zone 6: lava could be flowing there in 5 millenia
    (metabunk version of the explanation)

    The people who were living in lava zone 1 rolled the dice and regret it right now...the rest of us are fine.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
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  22. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    This University? Is that blue area not Hilo? (I'm not familiar with Hawaii, so I'm asking a sincere question)
    http://www.hilo.hawaii.edu/~nat_haz/volcanoes/riftzones.php
    pp.PNG

    I think that is what "borrowed time" means.
     
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  23. Marlin Angell

    Marlin Angell New Member

    As far as the conspiracy theory goes, I started to become aware of it dimly the last few days as I had a couple Facebook friends mention it.

    Ordinarily I'm inclined to take conspiracy theories seriously, at least when I first encounter them as I consider conspiracy behavior to be an inherit sociological byproduct of human psychology, but in this case I'm not at all inclined to believe that the 'Elite' are 'targeting' the Big Island in order to cause us 'riff raff' to flee so that they can buy up our land for pennies on the dollar.

    Not that they couldn't I suppose, but what would be the point? This area IS inherently unstable, people like the so called Elite wouldn't be interested in this area, they have bigger fish to fry as it were.
     
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  24. Marlin Angell

    Marlin Angell New Member

    Indeed the blue area is, and as you can see only a tiny bit of red touches near there.

    I don't. I think it means that we expect an immanent event. Maybe. Maybe if you are dumb enough to buy in the 'rift zone' of lava zone 1 that regularly does this. But the other thousands and thousands of acres that is the Big Island? Hardly. You need to come here and see exactly how much land we are talking about.
     
  25. Marlin Angell

    Marlin Angell New Member

    This image is deceiving btw for the fact that Mana Loa no longer erupts, and no one expects it ever to again. Just because lava flowed down from it in the last 200 years doesn't mean that it's active now.
     
  26. Marlin Angell

    Marlin Angell New Member

    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2018
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  27. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    in fairness you've edited your comment 8 times.
    t.PNG


    Please read the posting guidelines for Metabunk. It is helpful to readers if you provide information from trusted source links, when making statements. Maps of the 'zones' etc would be appreciated if your intention is to educate.

    I looked up the zones:
    volcanohazard.
    http://lureofhawaii.com/thevolcanoes.html
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
  28. Marlin Angell

    Marlin Angell New Member

    I hardly see your point?

    I've already achieved what I set it to: educate this forum on the reality of the situation here. The fact is not all of us living here are the imbeciles we we're being made out to be, we are all very aware of the inherint dangers here and which areas are worse than others.
     
  29. Marlin Angell

    Marlin Angell New Member

    I moved to Hawaii for several reasons:

    1. Fracking was starting to be done in my region and I've seen the gasland movies.

    2. I had lived in Texas and Florida where sinkholes swallowed people up without any warnings, unlike the fissures here.

    3. North America is running out of water. Hawaii won't run out of water within my lifetime.

    I think living here in the long run is safer than living in the USA mainland.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
  30. marrowmonkey

    marrowmonkey Member

    If zone 2 land is a lot cheaper I guess it might be some peoples only chance to own a plot of land? The fear of loosing that might lead to such conspiracy theories perhaps.

    Freshwater is unevenly distributed on the earth, that is the case in North America as well. Freshwater originally comes from rainwater, and it's not going to stop raining. So on average we are not going to "run out". Some areas have plenty, others doesn't have enough. Locally the situation might get worse because climate change makes weather patterns change. Especially areas that rely on glacial runoff.

    It might be a problem to get clean drinking water if the ground is poisoned. But as long as we take care and don't poison the land, and manage the water supplies, there's no reason to fear we will run out of water. Certainly, many areas in North America have plenty of clean freshwater.
     
  31. Landru

    Landru Moderator Staff Member

    Lava isn't the only threat. A tsunami hit Hilo in 1960. Hilo is partially built on lava flows from an eruption in the late 19th century.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauna_Loa?wprov=sfla1
    There is a reason the land is cheap.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
  32. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    This is a planet, and we live within the forces of nature. We either adapt or agree to the risks. Every area on earth has it's hazards. I'm in LA, CA, and we have droughts and earthquakes (and compounded by overpopulation).
    In HI, it's generally hurricanes, tsunami, volcanoes and their effects..
    But if the shit-hits-the-fan (world-wide or even semi-world-wide)... Hawaii could be cut-off to many essentials because it relies heavily on imports.


    But Marlin Angell, I do enjoy your "boots-on-the-ground" information. I find local information very useful, and worthy.
    Can you find other statements of misinformation regarding the recent events? Can you list them ? I'm interested.
    I am getting my info from statements from the USGS, scientists from the University of Hawaii @ Hilo , etc.... not just casual on-line opinions.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  33. Arbitrary

    Arbitrary New Member

    Surely it is 'active' though? The USGS are monitoring it as if it is currently active - they list it as Yellow/Advisory.
    https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/volcanoes/mauna_loa/
    And the data page shows some (very slow) deformation of the summit caldera suggestive of inflation by magma.

    For a volcano believed to have 'only' taken 300,000 years to build up to a 4km high mountain, taking the lack of lava flows in the Hilo area for the last 200 years as an indication of safety seems slightly optimistic.
     
  34. Rory

    Rory Senior Member

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