1. SR1419

    SR1419 Senior Member

    according to this article/research paper, the amount of airborne dust doubled in the 20th century.

    The are seemingly referring to terrestrial/household dust...but I am wondering if this can be related to more "aerosols" at flight level- leaving more condensation nuclei for contrails...and thus more contrails. More contrails for any given level of air traffic...

    Any thoughts?


    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/10/garden/10dust.html?src=me&ref=general
     
  2. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    From the paper (which is largely about desert dust):

    http://www.atmos-chem-phys.net/10/10875/2010/acp-10-10875-2010.pdf
    It's probably not going to increase the frequency of contrails, but might influence their size and spreading.
     
  3. SR1419

    SR1419 Senior Member

    That makes sense...contrails will form only if conditions are right...more or less dust doesn't change that.
     
  4. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    But it might enhance the look of the contrail.....
     
  5. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Probably the most experienced contrail scientist in the world once joined in debunking using the handle "Canex". You can figure out who he was, some people eventually caught on His input is the most reliable I can point anyone to regarding the subject of how, why, when and where contrails form.

    You might have to pick through a lot of chaff to find his 164 posts but they are here:
    google advanced search within domain chemtrailcentral.com and keyword canex
     
  6. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Sad though that such a large amount of reason and science would end up scattered with that chaff. Eventually he gave up perusing that particular avenue.

    I like posting on forums, but you've got to recognize that there you have a very small audience, and at best it's a tool for gathering the various talking points, and practicing refutations.

    Chemtrails is a subject I prefer over, say, 9/11. It's more tangible - you can almost hope to address the entire subject with a fair degree of certainty. But you can't do it one bit at a time, here and there with random people. Canex spent a lot of time on chemtrailcentral, but I can't help but think what might have been if he'd devoted that time to a more centralized and focussed exposition of the actual fact.
     
  7. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    Except that contacting dust will take the supersaturation out of a stratospheric layer of the sort that would be a good host to spreading contrails, and therefore diminish their effects.

    Supersaturation and dust are mutually exclusive, aren't they?

    Hi. :)

    It's Jazzy here... I thought I'd logged in...
     
  8. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    My understanding from RossM on CS is that they are not mutually exclusive for ice saturation - ice will only form on suitable particles, and most dust is not suitable.

    But another ice particle is - hence when a contrail does form it can "spread" relatively quickly.
     
  9. Ross Marsden

    Ross Marsden Senior Member

    You understand correctly, MikeC.
     
  10. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    See:
    http://www.atmos-chem-phys.org/9/3505/2009/acp-9-3505-2009.pdf

    So, yes, it depends on the type of dust.

    It's surprising the amount of uncertainty in the subject of exactly how clouds form. I suppose that's mostly due to their scale and unusual location. Still, you'd think there could be a bunch of fairly obvious experiments that could be carried out in a sufficiently large low pressure refrigerated chamber.

    Here's one from 2006.
    http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060424/full/news060424-7.html