1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    One problem I have in telling people that contrails can actually persist, and can even spread out to cover the sky, is that people tend to be suspicious of random people on the internet. So I decided to simply let 70 years of books on clouds speak for themselves.



    Result: Every single book on clouds that I could find for the last 70 years says that contrails can persist for hours.

    So next time some random guy on the internet tells you contrails can't persist and spread, then ask them why 70 years of books on clouds say the opposite.

    My cloud book collection:
    [​IMG]

    Selected References:

    1991: National Audubon Society Field Guide to North American Weather
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/metabunk/sets/72157644020551293/
    [​IMG]

    1988: Exploring the Sky By Day, Page 49
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/metabunk/sets/72157643850292503/
    [​IMG]

    1981: Peterson Field Guide to the Atmosphere, page 137
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/metabunk/sets/72157641675780313/
    [​IMG]

    1972: Clouds of the World, page 130
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/metabunk/sets/72157641669574294/
    [​IMG]

    1969: Clouds and Weather. Page 28
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/metabunk/sets/72157641629656855/
    [​IMG]

    1957: Cloud Study: A pictorial Guide, page 79
    https://www.metabunk.org/sk/1957CloudstudyapictorialguideOCR.pdf
    [​IMG]

    1943 -Clouds, C. J. P. Cave, page 10
    [​IMG]

    1943 - Cloud Reading For Pilots, page 73
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/metabunk/sets/72157642316592915/
    [​IMG]

    The above are simply the books I personally own. There are many other books that can be found in scanned form on the internet:

    1983: Encyclopedia Britannica:
    http://books.google.com/books?id=SBM8AAAAMAAJ&q=contrails "last for several hours"
    [​IMG]

    1975 International Cloud Atlas:
    http://library.wmo.int/pmb_ged/wmo_407_en-v1.pdf
    [​IMG]

    1946, Brewer, Condensation Trails: Weather, June 1946
    http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/media/pdf/c/3/1946_Brewer_condensation_trails.pdf
    [​IMG]

    The Weather Book - web.
     

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    Last edited: Sep 29, 2015
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  2. NoParty

    NoParty Senior Member

    I like how you made those "books" look so real, Mr. Random Guy on the Internet…if that is your real name! ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 28, 2014
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  3. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    if people didn't believe "some Random Guy on the internet" you wouldn't have to explain about contrails in the first place!
     
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  4. Joe

    Joe Senior Member

    So Mick went back in time and wrote a few books to convince a few people that persistent contrails have always existed . :) . To be serious very interesting Mick . Thank You .
     
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  5. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    I think he just printed out new dust covers. I mean, come on, who still has the jacket cover from a 1957 book! :confused:

    just kidding, Mick.
     
  6. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    20140228_204001.
    The book is available several places on-line.
    ....ebay or on-line used book sellers.
     

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  7. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  8. The response I have gotten was "See how far back they have been poisoning Us." It is like talking about religion and Dane and Alex are the prophets.
     
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  9. Eden

    Eden New Member

    [​IMG]

    Sorry, couldn't resist ;-)
     
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  10. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    @Eden and some people have both.
     
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  11. Vincent Ferrari

    Vincent Ferrari New Member

    I'm so glad you posted this. I've always wondered about the "contrails don't linger" thing supporting the existence of chemtrails. Anyone who's lived near an airport can tell you that they linger for hours, sometimes, on certain weather days, so unless all planes landing at an airport are trying to poison us, the "how long they last" part is the worst debunking I've seen yet.
     
  12. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Oops, I put 70 years when the shown books only go back 57. I have some books on order from the 1940s. Hopefully they will also mention contrails.

    And if anyone has any other books they would like to contribute scans form, I can add them to the OP.

    I'd especially like it if someone could find a 1983 Encyclopedia Britannica.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2014
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  13. SR1419

    SR1419 Senior Member


    I know the Cloud Studies book from 1905 doesn't have any contrails in it- but it does have a great sampling of clouds that are often associated with "chemtrails" today and is a powerful tool for debunking some of supposed unnatural clouds that are claimed today...I think it deserves to be included or at least honorable mention:

    https://plus.google.com/photos/107393796095434664991/albums/5236028370090070321?banner=pwa
     
  14. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Yeah, but I just wanted to keep it focused on the persistence claim. Adding in "HAARP clouds" dilutes the issue a bit. Cloud Studies is mentioned in many places here and on CS. I like to show it to chemtrail believers.
     
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  15. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    Yep. Their cry of "I REMEMBER THEY NEVER LOOKED LIKE THIS BEFORE THE MID-90s" just falls by the wayside, as if it never was the mainstay of "proof" for their claims at all.
     
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  16. Joe

    Joe Senior Member

    World Book Encyclopedia 1970 has 4 pages on clouds. Nothing mentioning contrail cirrus or any pictures of them either . [...]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 1, 2014
  17. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    (Off topic material removed).

    One encylopedia does not a trend make. The topic of this thread is the persistence of contrails, and the evidence that they persist in old books. Your book does not mention them either way.

    Did you look under "contrails", or "vapour trails"?
     
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  18. Joe

    Joe Senior Member

    I looked under clouds . There was no contrails . Ill Look thru the other books in the set and see what I can find . Yes I understand it does not make a trend . I have 30 years of Old National Geographic . Bet there some contrails there .
     
  19. Steve Funk

    Steve Funk Active Member

    The one I copied, 2008 I think, has it under vapor trails.
     
  20. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

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  21. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    "Vapour Trails" was how they were generally referred to in the UK, as I remember. Some encyclopedia might follow that.
     
  22. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    Wow. Now this is there:



    It doesn't matter what evidence is presented, they seem to ALWAYS find a way to just incorporate it into the conspiracy.
     
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  23. NoParty

    NoParty Senior Member

    OMG! That is priceless!!!

    No irony at all, the 180 from:

    (untrustworthy "Bilderberg MI5K") "Anyone can publish a book...probably the easiest bit of it to do…"
    to
    (the defenders of truth) "Try and look at very old encyclopedias"

    Wow!! Thanks Hama Neggs


    p.s. To be fair, I pointed out in post #2 that Mick obviously faked those books! :rolleyes:
     
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  24. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    Hi, just a little unsure as I follow this thread -- by "there" are you referring to Ian Simpson and 'Look-up.org'?

    Thanks.
     
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  25. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    It sounds like desperation really, scrambling to invent new reasons to keep the fantasy alive.
     
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  26. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

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  27. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    It's exactly what they used to do with the "Planet X" fantasy. They would claim that any star charts showing something proving their story wrong were recently "doctored". If you suggested going to libraries and looking up stuff in older books showing the same data as modern charts they said had been "doctored", they usually just fell silent.
     
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  28. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    And this: "...genuine atmospheric literature from scientific bodies." Why don't they ever actually DO that?
     
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  29. SR1419

    SR1419 Senior Member



    Why not help them?

    It should be easy enough to post a link to 10 or 20 papers dating back decades from scientists around the World that could provide some insight?

    here is one of many:

    http://contrailscience.com/files/1970-AMS-i1520-0469-27-6-937.pdf
     
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  30. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    Try and get them to look at that. Challenge what he said and supply what he asked for. GO for it! It's BOUND to be entertaining to see how they twist their way out of believing anything in those papers.
     
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  31. Mark Barrington

    Mark Barrington Active Member

    I have a 1956 encyclopedia*, and while it does not have an article on contrails, there are several photos in the articles and yearbooks that show contrails. I haven't scanned them as they're not particularly impressive and my scanner is buried in a closet somewhere, but I could scan them.

    *the American Peoples Encyclopedia, which came with a coffee table that holds all of the volumes. I got the coffee table, encyclopedias, and 10 years of yearbooks at a garage sale for $50.
     
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  32. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    I imagine they are looking for science stuff that says contrails DON'T persist. no?
     
  33. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    They only look for things which reinforce their beliefs.

    Anything posted along the lines of those docs from contrailscience will be met with this sort of response, from that same page:

     
  34. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Even just some photos of the page(s) would be great.
     
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  35. Mark Barrington

    Mark Barrington Active Member

    Ask and ye shall receive. This is from the 1964 American People's Encyclopedia yearbook (Events of 1963), p. 51. The article is 'The Long View' by Howard K. Smith. This was during the height of the cold war and the photo caption is pretty indicative of that. As you can see, the photo reproduction quality in the A.P.E. is fairly poor, and most of the photos with the articles are pretty small. B-52s are pretty smoky, but the trail from the plane in the back is definitely a contrail. I uploaded a full size photo if the thumbnail does not have enough detail, just click to view.

    DSC_0284.JPG

    APE1964yearbook.JPG
     
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  36. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Got at 1941 book in the mail today:

    [​IMG]
    (dust cover included :) )

    Had a cool original signature and cartoon by the author: (which might actually be worth something, as Eric Sloane's works go for a bit now)
    [​IMG]

    Unfortunately not a huge amount about contrails:
    [​IMG]

    See bottom left here:
    [​IMG]
     
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  37. Jazzy

    Jazzy Closed Account

    What a find! :)
     
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  38. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    love the stork!
     
  39. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

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  40. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    halo.JPG
     
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