1. econ41

    econ41 Active Member

    I see that Karl Eriksen has made a false response to one of my comments. He said:
    That assertion is false for the example I posted. I referred specifically to two plausible mechanisms that I speculated about in 2008. I called them "skittering" and "bowling".

    We have had proof for some years - post my 2008 speculations - for one example of "bowling". By "bowling" I mean a "beam" (strictly a section of column) carried at the top of a toppling sheet of perimeter columns. That example is the beam that embedded in the WFC. It came from the top of one sheet of perimeter. I described it in my earlier post as "that humungous 30(?) storey piece that fell as a single sheet and - by a "bowling" action - impaled that beam into the WFC." I am conscious of this forum's "No Click" policy - the proof of where that "humongous sheet" came from and how it swiped WFC as it fell is no longer easy to access but if anyone wants it I can try to locate the evidence which is many years old.

    The main issue here however is that Karl's responses seem to focus on rebutting one mechanism when reality had several. And the sections of perimeter column "sheets" he is probably referring to were not displaced by either impact skittering or long range bowling.
     
  2. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    If someone wants to claim there's a specific piece of the WTC that exhibits behavior that is not explained by a gravity driven collapse then please present actual evidence of that, with images and math. Let's not descend into a semantic discussion.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Zett eL

    Zett eL Banned Banned

    This implies that you have seen convincing evidence of ext columns peeling out...
    Please show it.
     
  4. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The attached video is mode from a sequence of photos, so the timing is not perfect. However it does quite clearly show a large section lean out to the side. It's the one on the upper right that momentarily brightens as it falls into sunlight.
    wtc1-all-clipped-enhanced-25pct-section.
    Metabunk 2018-08-12 16-19-10.
    I've attached the file so you can analyze it better. Also on YouTube


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqxveCGOGKQ
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Oystein

    Oystein Active Member

    Some of that evidence is shown on page 1 of this thread - I suggest you read the thread before asking things that are already answered.

    Examples:

    1. Here is a slo-mo video of one of the collapses, showing several sheets of wall peeling outward:

    Please let me know if you need help spotting what I am talking about, I think it's fairly obvious.


    2. And here is an aerial photo of the result - several huge sheets of connected wall segments flat on the ground after having peeled and toppled outwards.
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Zett eL

    Zett eL Banned Banned

    Maybe its a matter of translation... Again: I´m german.
    In my understanding, there is a difference between "falling off", "being ejected", "tipping over/away" and "peeling out".
    To me it seems impossible to determinate which of those happened to the facade.
     
  7. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    What do you think is happening to the section I circled in red, above?
     
  8. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The thread is about the claim that sections were "elected laterally". That means they had an initial horizontal velocity away from the building, as if they were shot out of a cannon.

    The general agreement here is that there are no examples known that cannot be explained by a gravity driven collapse. If you'd like to point to one then please try to produce a frame by frame analysis showing the trajectory.
     
  9. Oystein

    Oystein Active Member

    I am German, too.
    You askked for evidence of exterior columns "peeling out" - which is the same, in my understanding as "tipping over/away", but different from "falling off" or "being ejected".

    This thread is about "Multi-ton steel sections ejected laterally", and discussion of wall segments tipping/toppling/peeling outwards in large, connected sheets is on-topic only insofar as this rules out that these same segments were "ejected laterally".

    The video I posted shows, among other things, a fairly rigid wall section, many stories high, on the right side of the tower rotating about a pivot that's hidden behind the dust cloud but can be estimated to be near the original perimeter, and thus falling over/tipping/toppling like a tree. Do you see what I mean?

    Here, let me help you with screenshots and red circles around the wall segment I am talking about:

    slomo1.
    slomo2.
    slomo3.
    slomo4.
     
  10. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member