1. F4Jock

    F4Jock Active Member

    You all don't think the "population is enslaved"?

    Have you looked at what you pay in taxes;)

    Maybe JFK caught wind of LBJ wanting to institute the "Great Society" and was gonna drop him as VP next election. *Grin*
    Think that coulda PO'ed LBJ enough for him to put out a contract on Jack?

    My God! I just started another CT......,
     
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  2. Sue

    Sue New Member

    Am I missing something? In reading the above posts debunking the quote, I got the idea that some of the posters had checked outside sources looking for verification that JFK actual made that quote. They found that it only showed up 8 years ago on the internet. (Some 45 years after our beloved presidents murder.)
    I tend to pay attention to posts that have good sources to back them up and have correct spelling and good use of grammar. It tends to show education and insight. If you want to believe he said it that is your right but to use bad language doesn't add a thing to the argument.
     
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  3. F4Jock

    F4Jock Active Member

    You're not missing anything. Once in awhile I try to inject doe humor into the proceedings in order to keep from banging my head into a steel beam..... Wait! Could that have brought down WTC 7?
     
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  4. blankamania

    blankamania New Member

    Do you believe if this power existed, that they could not destroy all video, audio, and transcripts of this speech? And find anyone who tries to distibute any remaining copies, or censor internet searches to the quote?
     
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  5. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    Nope, I don't. I believe in reality. Fantasy is for fun.
     
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  6. MB

    MB New Member

    I found several sources over 30 years old for this Kennedy "Columbia" quote in books and one from US Congress:

    United States. Congress. Senate. Committee on Appropriations
    U.S. G.P.O., Jan 1, 1997

    Wealth for All: Economics
    R. E. McMaster, A.N., Inc., Jun 1, 1982

    A Declaration of Financial Independence
    John Grandbouche, Spencer Judd, 1983

    To Seduce a Nation
    Lindsey Williams, Worth Pub. Co., 1984

    Of course that doesn't mean it's accurate, but it's definitely not just an Internet rumor, and it may help further research.

     
  7. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Can you post the actual context of the quote? Those links go nowhere. How do you know the quote is in them?
     
  8. MB

    MB New Member

    Scroll down at each link and you should see the "citizen of his plight" portion of the quote highlighted in a preview box. If not, just search for "citizen of his plight" in each book.
     
  9. MB

    MB New Member

    Try these links.

    United States. Congress. Senate. Committee on Appropriations
    U.S. G.P.O., Jan 1, 1997
    http://books.google.com/books?id=gPcPAAAAIAAJ&q="citizen+of+his+plight"#search_anchor

    Wealth for All: Economics
    R. E. McMaster, A.N., Inc., Jun 1, 1982
    http://books.google.com/books?id=9lhLAQAAIAAJ&q="citizen+of+his+plight"#search_anchor

    A Declaration of Financial Independence
    John Grandbouche, Spencer Judd, 1983
    http://books.google.com/books?id=X_QJAQAAMAAJ&q="citizen+of+his+plight"#search_anchor

    To Seduce a Nation
    Lindsey Williams, Worth Pub. Co., 1984
    http://books.google.com/books?id=tichAQAAMAAJ&q="citizen+of+his+plight"#search_anchor
     
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  10. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Thanks! Actually just the last two of your original links did not show the quote, so I'd assumed the all did not.

    So the 1982 version seems to be the earliest so far for the Columbia/foment quote, making the most likely the source of the later "enslave" quote.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Looking at that snippet though suggests it might not be the original, as it's formatted in the way you would format a known quote, not the first reporting of something. Alternatively McMaster might have been the original source, and simply presented it like that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  11. dirk

    dirk New Member

    Thanks for debunking. I was thrown out of facebookgroup "In a Mad World, Only the Mad Are Sane" because I insisted this was a false quote, and they couldn't stand the truth. :)
     
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  12. Tim Redmond

    Tim Redmond New Member

    I first encountered this "quote" on the first page of an anti-income tax book in 1977 or 78. I don't remember its title or publish date.
    This, of course, is not presented as anything other than a statement of my memory, such as it is.:)
    As for my opinion, it stands to reason that, if he said it in a speech at a university, there would be documentation, most certainly at that university. On the other hand, CIA scrubbing is a possibility which makes an absolute debunking unlikely.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2013
  13. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    You would think there would also be hundreds of people who remember him saying it, as it's such an incredible quote, especially in light of his assassination.

    And it's hard to scrub books, so presumably there would be copies of the 1977/78 book out there.

    But yeah, it's impossible to prove he did not say it. Just that there's no real evidence he did.
     
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  14. thedude953

    thedude953 Member

    There have been people who have been quoted saying he said it, but in any other area of this site testimonies and videos usually aren't taken into consideration and would likely be ignored here as well. Any documentation would have been covered up easily by the government if he really did say it.
     
  15. Ben Klumaster

    Ben Klumaster New Member

    It seems likely to me that if a widespread attempt was made to suppress all records of a public quote by a public figure, after it was out in the wild, the main thing you'd do is create a widespread knowledge that the attempt had been made.
    If you ascribe near-limitless power to the government, it's possible to make almost any theory about the world add up, though. At that point how do you even know, for example, that other countries exist?
     
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  16. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Who?
     
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  17. thedude953

    thedude953 Member

    Widespread knowledge isn't even accepted that there was a plot motive and evidence to kill him why would it be any different for a quote of one thing he said...
     
  18. thedude953

    thedude953 Member

    The bullets fired in the amount of time has been proven not possible, the magic bullet theory is Swiss cheese and Oswald getting killed before he can talk...common this ones more ridiculous than Osama bein tied to 9/11
     
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  19. dirk

    dirk New Member

    quoting someone should be correct, regardless of plot theories
     
  20. JeffreyNotGeoffrey

    JeffreyNotGeoffrey Active Member

    Also I don't much care for tertiary/hearsay sources. I've met/heard plenty of people who have heard someone else hear/see something else. How many people have heard through the "grapevine" about Bigfoot, aliens, the massive government conspiracy of the day, and all other sorts of things.
    And no government doesn't have unlimited power. They don't have the ability to retroactively redact books that were for sale to the public. For one publishing houses and libraries would break out the pitchforks and torches on that issue, and secondly what about private owners of said books? Would the government black bag these people for owning a book, or would a blops team run in and secure the book. After a while these types of conspiracies keep spiraling out of control until it's almost like some people believe we are in the Matrix.:eek:
     
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  21. thedude953

    thedude953 Member

    This one has been beaten to death watch Oliver stones JFK watch the countless documentaries if you don't see the problems then you have no need debating anything cuz ur mind will never be changed
     
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  22. thedude953

    thedude953 Member

    If
    if quotes should be correct then we are fine just listen to the countless credible people who have said it couldn't have been one person. You'll find some good quotes there
     
  23. Ben Klumaster

    Ben Klumaster New Member

    And we could accurately quote that they said that. But what we're talking about is whether Kennedy said something.
     
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  24. thedude953

    thedude953 Member

    Very true sorry little off topic
     
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  25. Tim Redmond

    Tim Redmond New Member

    Did you go off topic because you could not answer the question?
    If so, do you just happen to be a democrat?;)
     
  26. Tim Redmond

    Tim Redmond New Member

    Forgive me for going off topic myself, but I'm reminded of a scenario described by some comedian, I think. This was a long time ago.
    It goes like this:
    Each new president, shortly after his inauguration, is lead to a dimly lit, smoke filled room with half a dozen people in it.
    The lights are taken down further and a short film clip is played of the Kennedy Assassination...but, taken from the vantage point of the "grassy knoll".
    Then the lights come back up and someone asks him, "Any questions?".
     
  27. JeffreyNotGeoffrey

    JeffreyNotGeoffrey Active Member

    I preferred the joke about the Soviet Union. When the premier first sits at his desk he finds two letters. One is labeled "Wait" while the other is labeled "Read Me First." The Premier reads the Read Me First letter which tells him that when he has his first major crisis he should blame it all on the last guy in office. Well that crisis comes and goes, but then a second one pops up. This premier eagerly opens the Wait envelop to find his new strategy. The letter simply said, "Sit down and write two letters." Lots better and more grounded in reality.
     
  28. Tim Redmond

    Tim Redmond New Member

    Hmm, better joke, grounded in reality...and even further off topic, too!
    Thank you for sharing.:confused:
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
  29. Se7ensnakes

    Se7ensnakes New Member

    While this may be a fictitious quote, the quote itself is prophetic. 1) Federal Reserve Policy to overlook underwriting standards under the guise of providing mortgage to everyone. 2) banks could be penalized for restricted credit. 3) Liars loans come into existence. 4) investor euphoria 5) Homes prices soar million caught in the net 6) bubble burst 7) record unemployment, foreclosures and bankruptcies 8) Big banks swallow up little banks concentrating the nations reserve into a few banks. Banks foreclose on homes although they sold the mortgage receivables in a securitization scheme 9) Finally Home median family networth plummets from $126,400 in 2007 to $77,300 in 2010.. 19 million homes vacant but only 8 million homeless. If you are an average young family starting out you will need to get a mortgage for 30 years on a house that the banks got for free. Then you have to hope that the money supply stays steady for those thirty years so that you have the money necessary to service the mortgage. This is the same boom-burst scenario that is at least in its modern version 2 centuries old.
     
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  30. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    No one 'forced' folks to take out loans for houses they couldn't afford. When someone applied for a 'liar loan' they knew it was iffy. Folks decided that houses were something they could speculate in, like stocks, instead of being housing.

    I am not excusing banks, but many home buyers were also to blame. Sort of like someone ringing you door bell and offering you a $500 TV for $50. They stole it, but you should have realized it was 'hot'.

    It takes 2 to tango. If folks had not been so quick to 'take advantage' of the deals, then the banks wouldn't have found customers for them.

    I live in an area where I imagine that quite a few folks may be undocumented immigrants that are buying homes. We did not see a flood of houses for sale. The couple that I know of, where rent houses.
     
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  31. Mads

    Mads New Member

    Healthy discussion that lasted for over a year. Current circumstances proves that every men, women and child in this world is being enslaved by handful of culprits. Just 200 people owns 50% of American resources. America alone consumes 30% of world resources with just 4.5% of total population and 6 to 7% of total land. But I'm not blaming Americans, as they too are trapped. It looks like 'World will be not enough for those CULPRITS'
     
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  32. Mark Wittkowski

    Mark Wittkowski New Member

    This one really bugs me, and comes up all the time. I get the context, but so much of his speech is entirely too vague to just assume his exact meaning, and based on his public beliefs he clearly recanted occasion after occasion...isn't it at least possible that "in part" on that day, one of our great Presidents, was making a dual point? In his action and words on many occasions hit at the heart of the problems with our Nation.

    "The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it."

    And despite the decades of attempted debunking of the possibly that the powers-that-be, potentially with the help of the CIA for several known reasons, just may have plotted to kill a President that was a clear and present danger to American Imperialism? After all, it's a known fact the two went hand in hand. Our monetary system, even though at the time greatly favored the elite, had a few steps further to reach their ultimate goal of virtually unlimited money supply to fund their Imperialistic vision and economic power that could be wielded across the globe for decades to truly benefit of only a few. (The then later, USD coup of 1971 where debt became the vehicle and the petrodollar with OPEC the control.)

    You can't think for a moment, that JFK didn't clearly understand the mechanisms of the Bretton Woods institutions, the IMF and World Bank, under the guidance of the CFR and Bilderberg Group (and two years later the Trilateral Commission), its control of broad western European economic policy via the Marshall Plan, OEEC, OECD, etc? He also understood the role of the USD as the world reserve currency at the heart of world finance, and through the Money Trusts New York banksters (after historic mergers and acquisitions) along with their allied civil servants in Washington. In 1961, US Department of Justice reported that the five largest New York banks now controlled 75% of all deposits in the nation's largest city, the world's international financial center. How? Ironically, the US Government exempted banks from US anti-trust laws prohibiting undue concentration, monopolies or cartel creation.

    Add in his feelings towards the true purpose of the "no-win" Vietnam War, he vehemently apposed, which was to ensure a prolonged buildup of the military sector of the US economy that worked to a T despite, once again, massive casualties. But hey, we've long gotten used to that by now, seemingly thinking of human casualties as mere statistics, a means to some end that is so far from the regurgitated purpose that it hardly resembles any truth whatsoever. Regardless, the next step to enable and enforce the Bretton Woods plan was in place, the commitment to perpetuate building the most massive Military-Industrial Complex in history. And for what? To protect Americans? To promote freedom and peace globally? Ahhh...yah, right.

    So, and this is a VERY small summary, you don't think for a moment JFK could have in fact had a purposeful, yet subtle, dual meaning to this historic speech?
     
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  33. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    It does not seem like it. I've listened to it several times. It seems to be about newspaper censorship. It does not seem vague at all, it all makes perfect sense in the context of the subject. Even the bit you quoted. He's saying "Secrecy is bad. We don't like it. It's not worth it". Just with more words.
     
  34. Mark Wittkowski

    Mark Wittkowski New Member

    Those living under a rock, shouldn't throw glass...a, er...wait. j/k

    This is a perfect example of the inherent problem I have with this site. There's tons of excellent commentary and views mind you, but things not only are never just black or white, but rarely as they seem. Again, I like this site as tons of time and research are done by Mick and community to find some semblance of the truth, some form of grey that makes sense. For that, thank you.

    The all-to-often response by many here, where I've voiced concern before...is for lack of a better phrase, like throwing the baby out with the bathwater! i.e. just because one chooses, like myself, to ignore the rhetoric regarding the NWO and Illuminati, etc., does in NO way mean their is not a "no-longer secret" cabal of international financiers (made up of elite bankers, industrialist, capitalists, ect.) that work in collaboration to further their interests and wealth, using the tools available to them (the FED, the Government, the populace, etc.). And, if you think this is not going on within the circles of the super-rich then I suggest more reading and research, beginning with the historical facts of American History. You can go back further if you'd like to see a constant reoccurring theme over and over from empire to empire throughout world history as well. Unfortunately, this is all part of human societies, and it often comes down to what level of corruption are you willing to admit to and live with.

    Let me finish with the idea that I tend to focus on, especially in my new business venture, HOPE and carving out your own financial niche to lessen your dependence on banks/debt, government/welfare, and eventually Corp America and/or the job market completely. We still have enormous opportunity in front of us, first using the power and reach of the Internet (locally and/or a larger scale) to market something (it's best being something your passionate about or at least like) and then rather than SPENDING more, other than paying off all debt, build some wealth CAREFULLY...once you understand what's going on right now. What I really hate, are the Alex Jones' types that constantly spin fear mongering, keeping people confused, distracted and well...fearful! Quite possibly that could be their agenda even beyond peddling their mostly crap.

    A quick note: some prepper supplies (often purchased locally) is never a bad idea considering the sheer possibility natural disasters alone pose, let alone some type of financial breakdown. Along those lines, consider for a moment, first how incredibly close we were in 2007, not that long ago and then consider in our own US history we've seen dramatic financial collapses with bread lines, etc. and more recently gas lines. But unlike the Great Depression when our society was built quite different and a much larger percentage having access to food and water than now, if a collapse occurred this day and age it would be even worse. So, having some supplies and a plan is just smart, especially if you have children. Ignoring any potential natural or man-made disaster today is just, ....well.

    That said, I choose to pay attention to what helps me, my partners/team/clients, and our families further our cause and plan. Just because the elitist of this world try to control us and work very hard to take away our ability to build and protect our wealth, doesn't mean we have to submit and just play along. I mean, this is still America! I instead choose some obstinacy, with a dash of obstreperousness, while keeping one the eye on the prize and the other on enjoying the journey!
     
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  35. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    But the point of this thread is that the quote was fake. That's all.

    Why is it that every time I show a chemtrail enthusiast a 1905 book with photos of row clouds, then the response is "yeah, but that doesn't prove there isn't a secret geoengineering program, do some research"?

    You agree it's a fake quote, right?
     
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  36. Mark Wittkowski

    Mark Wittkowski New Member

    Really my only point was that it is a possibility, is all.

    I can't help but wonder with everything setting up the way it was with American Imperialism and hegemony all coming together firmly and him, at this point, clearly seeing the path or writing on the wall, what in the heck he must have been thinking. It just seemed in nearly all his speeches such a tone of seriousness and even a precarious uneasiness about them. You've talked about that here; that at times larger words, even though shorter ones would suffice, depict more meaning. And, if it was only about communism, though parallels are often drawn on our current political system, he could have used different, more direct wording...rather than leave some much to interpretation.
     
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  37. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Maybe, but this site is to do with debunking claims of evidence, not speculating.
     
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  38. Mark Wittkowski

    Mark Wittkowski New Member

    Yeah, if you're referring to me Mick...I sure have a tough time staying on-topic! lol Always have.

    In this case, yes, it appears that there is no evidence that JFK ever said that quote. I knew it seemed far fetched. Similar to the additions made to the famous and already impactful quote by Pres. Wilson without, "I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country." For the record, here's a link to the archives showing the rest of his quote was real, LINK. (page 100)

    And of course when I saw this most likely erroneous quote, do you know the first place I went? :) Why? Because I knew someone here had the resources to search it out in the past and be able to say beyond any reasonable doubt, one way or the other.
     
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  39. David Francis

    David Francis New Member

    This is my first time to the site and reading through this thread has been one of the most interesting things I've done in the recent past. I don't know much about conspiracy theorists or their theories, but judging from the fact that the theorist's I've had the pleasure of reading on this forum have a general disregard for evidence (and apparently also for spelling, logic, style, and grammar), I'm afraid to say it would appear these 'theories' aren't worth the (digital) ink they're written with, and your own enthusiastic zealotry for the fantastical has caused me more doubts about their credibility than have Mick's clearly stated and evidence backed arguments.

    More importantly, the point of the thread is whether JFK said the quote or not. Period. There's nothing conspiratory to argue about in the first place, because either he said the quote and there is evidence of it, or he didn't say the quote and there is no evidence. The evidence indicates he didn't say those words. Thus, there is no need to conjecture what JFK might have been thinking, or insinuating, or hinting at, because that's not what the thread is about! The thread is about: did JFK say the quote or not? And alas, my conspiratorial comrades, he did not.

    Mick and admins, do you guys get paid to do this or is it volunteer work? It seems like it either must be the funnest / funniest job in the world or the most frustrating.

    Cheers.
     
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  40. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Nobody gets paid. I do it because I find it interesting, and I think it does some good.