1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Billed as a sequel to What in the World are They Spraying, The Great Culling is a highly inaccurate documentary that basically proposes that the powers-that-be are attempting to reduce the population of the Earth. In part they claim that this is being done by spraying "Chemtrails".



    This idea is based on a misconception - that "normal" contrails dissipate in about a minute. This false claim is repeated many times over the course of the trailer, by several different people. It's not just the interviewees either (people like Clifford Carnicom, and Alex Jones), at one point Wittenburger points at a short contrail and says "that's what a contrail is supposed to look like".

    Since the entire premise is based on this misconception, pretty much the entire chemtrail section of the film can be debunked simply by pointing out that normal contrails can and do persist for hours, and have done so since the dawn of aviation.

    This specific misconception is addressed here:
    http://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails/

    And the various ancillary misconceptions are addressed here:
    http://contrailscience.com/how-to-debunk-chemtrails/

    [Update, Jan 1 2012]

    The larger theme of the film is that of population reduction via "culling" (i.e. killing a large segment of humanity). Apparently this was not made clear to the participants, some of which have already disassociated themselves with the film:

    http://www.thetruthdenied.com/news/...peterson-and-michael-murphy-re-great-culling/

     
  2. firepilot

    firepilot New Member

    I am not sure when Will Thomas wrote these paragraphs, but he actually is debunking the culling idea, even using the word "cull". I also think he is taking a not too veiled shot at Clifford Carnicom on this page too.

    http://www.willthomas.net/Chemtrails/

     
  3. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Yes, I suppose the simplest debunking for the broader culling theory is to just observe that IT'S NOT WORKING.

    People are healthier, and living longer lives. US and World population is rapidly increasing.
     
  4. firepilot

    firepilot New Member

    Not to mention, that if they were doing it, why would they choose a large first world country, with a low population density?
     
  5. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  6. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    The vaccine claims were coming from Mark Steadham who got it from a woman who "channeled" messages from 'Spirit'.
    'Spirit' wasn't accurate, and said in 2000 that biowarfare would be a reality within five years. About five years later, Mark Steadham left the hoax and hasn't participated since.

    http://www.lightsmith.com/answer28.htm

    So, the culling claims and the vaccination claims have both turned out to be debuned already by time.
    Prognosticators usually have a weasel-way out when time debunks them.

    They beg time for a little more time, and hope most people don't notice.
    I'm sure if confronted, Maple and Wittenberger will not break the mold.
    These newbies never really studied how this hoax began and progressed, or even see
    where it is taking them. They are riding an old worn-out horse which they hope to keep
    alive. I think much of what they are doing is simply to spite Michael J. Murphy, and it will
    be interesting to see what sort of blow he will strike with next. There is some bad blood there,
    and its not all over.

    Michael J. Murphy is out of the "Geoengineering Ban" consulting business he had been counting on,
    and will see this as a threat to his future.
     
  7. Steve

    Steve Active Member

    I was interviewed by these two last summer just as I was interviewed by MJM and Paul for WITWATS the previous year with the same results. Not one frame of any of my explanations made it into these productions even though each interview lasted more than an hour. It's obvious now to me that they are not interested in any logical explanation to their misunderstood concepts because they are simply in it for the money and the fame. It's really sad to see this as I thought they were decent people who just needed some simple corrections to their misunderstandings. As I see it now they only chose me because they were hoping I would make a major mistake in our discussion that could be exploited by them to enhance the validity of their point of view. This is not a documentary at all but sadly just pure propaganda used to exploit fellow conspiracist for financial gain.
     
  8. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    It did strike me that Wittenberger did not really seem to believe what he was saying - almost as if it were a parody. Hard to tell for sure.
     
  9. Steve

    Steve Active Member

    There was no rebuttal from Chris in my interview with him because he knew very little about the basic reasons for contrail formations. He was certain that all real contrails only lasted exactly 14 seconds and then they just disappeared at that point. These guys just don't want to know the truth even though both are well entrenched "Truthers". Anything that contradicts their preconceived ideas is simply edited away both in their production and in their own reasoning as humans. I actually thought I reach these guys but apparently other motivations pulled them from any logical reasoning.
     
  10. Spongebob

    Spongebob Active Member

    Could a film be produced and directed by members of this site?

    A simple and systematic debunk of each and every single one of the false claims made by chemmies?

    It would cause quite a stir and generate a fair amount of interest I dare say - but it would be there as a constant reference (and thorn) ...
     
  11. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    That would certainly be an interesting endeavor. I'm not sure how effective it would be. Who would watch it? The undecided?

    Consider that most of the claims have already been debunked in one place or another. Would putting that in film form make it more accessible?

    The bunk films like WHITWATS and TGC are effective because they have lots of interviews with people who sound honest and reasonable (or are taken out of context). This human element makes the films convincing. They pretty much entirely skip over the science. Just a few vague claims about trails lasting longer now, and suspicious test results, or everyone getting sick.

    TGC is based square on one lie: the government is attempting to vastly reduce the world's population. On that they balance two more lies: that contrails don't last more than a minute, and that fluoride in drinking water causes early death. These things are either baseless speculation, or demonstrably untrue.

    How long of a film would you need to demonstrate that contrails persist? Would such a film be effective?

    If water fluoridation has not been shown to be safe (to conspiracy theorists) in 60 years, then what could you put in a film?

    Don't get me wrong - I've always been interested in documentary film-making, and I've often thought about making something about chemtrails. I'm just unsure what the best use of a debunker's time would be, and if it's a film, what would the film look like?
     
  12. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    These bunk films ARE very effective though. No matter how throughly you debunk them, they just keep coming back. So they keep making them, like this upcoming one:

    It's hard to tell is someone is a true believer or not. But The Intel Hub is chock full of fear-based ads, and has obviously no regard for actual facts. (rather amusingly they have automated ads, and currently have an ad for Shell Oil on their page, so they don't worry too much about where they get their money from either).

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  13. Spongebob

    Spongebob Active Member



    As you say Mick - the bunk films have a human approach with seemingly (wrongly) concerned "real" "honest" people featured.
    Giving the appearance of honesty and truth to the believers and uninitiated...

    I would propose a story type approach with interviews along the way?

    Beginning with the general misconceptions about how and why trails form / last (all of that) The history, how jet engines work, what contrails consist of, altitude where they form and why etc.

    Then show the claims made by the theorists and debunk each one soundly, in turn, leaving nothing out.

    Grids, patterns, books, samples, the rest of the hoax information describing why each claim made is wrong and the science to prove it?


    It would be watched by chemtrailers in their droves who would be incensed, knowing that all of their claims had just been shown to be false?

    No doubt they would end up debating it for years using ever more increasing levels of pseudo science in a vain attempt to disprove it...

    The end result would be a much awaited sequel which soundly trounced any false claims made by believers about the first film?

    It`s a nice idea right?

    Can you imagine the millions of YT views?
     
  14. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I wonder if any of the people in WITWATS or TGC would consent to appear in a film that focussed on verifiable science and history? Specifically:
    • Alex Jones
    • Former Senator Karen Johnson
    • Former Biologist Francis Mangels
    • Dr. Rima E. Laibow M.D.
    • Clifford E Carnicom
    • Rosalind Peterson
    • Dr. Paul Connett, PhD
    • Dr. David C. Kennedy, DDS
    • Dr. James E. Rota, DDS
    • Dr. Laura Pressley, PhD
    • Gary O. Pittman
    • Dr. Charlie Goetschel, PhD
    • Lauren Feder, M.D.
    • Dr. Rebecca Carley M.D.
    • Chuck and Wendy Goetschel
    • Aaron Dykes
    • Harold Saive
    • The Konell Family
    • and many more!
    Obviously Alex Jones would not, but some of the other do profess to believe in science.
     
  15. Spongebob

    Spongebob Active Member

    It would be nice. Even just a line or two from them to aid the presentation ...?

    A project for 2012? Maybe the world would end for chemmies if the film were released (after much build up) on December 21st 2012.

    Can you imagine the conspiracies that would emerge if the documentary was due for release on that date?
    It would be as entertaining...
     
  16. Danny55

    Danny55 Member

  17. Spongebob

    Spongebob Active Member


    And so it begins....


    If anyone wants to supply my airfare I would gladly contrail my way across the pond to help film? ;)
     
  18. Danny55

    Danny55 Member

    "And so it begins....


    If anyone wants to supply my airfare I would gladly contrail my way across the pond to help film? ;)"

    Could always sell t shirts like MJM
    http://www.stopspraying.us/

    New slogan for you "Chemtrails are the Devil's Breath"
    :)
     
  19. Spongebob

    Spongebob Active Member



    Domestic Order (+ $6 shipping) $35.95 USD International order (+ $10 Shipping) $39.95 USD
    (Enter Shirt Size)​



    That might catch on?

    Has anyone yet seen a 'devil' or 'occult' imagery associated with 'chemtrails' ?
     
  20. Ross Marsden

    Ross Marsden Senior Member

    There is this stupid one with the Photoshopped skulls in the wrong perspective...
    chem_dees.
    (An "original" is here but the GIF format is too large to embed here.)

    Or there is this one; skulls again. At least they are more or less in perspective, although there are still problems with perspective in that image.
    skychem_dees.

    Note, they are from the same artist. These are from his "skulz" period. :p
     
  21. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    The science element would be necessary, but far more effective would be to also depict the human element using actual interviews with former believers.
    It would take some doing.
     
  22. Spongebob

    Spongebob Active Member

    I agree, science, and it must include 'human' input.
     
  23. Danny55

    Danny55 Member

    "Domestic Order (+ $6 shipping) $35.95 USD International order (+ $10 Shipping) $39.95 USD
    (Enter Shirt Size)"
    How much for postage to UK? :p
     
  24. Spongebob

    Spongebob Active Member

    Here`s one I made earlier:

    6606493973_33c03b4d57.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. Danny55

    Danny55 Member

    This might be a more important question t shirt.
     
  26. Pogopoint99

    Pogopoint99 New Member

    I think they should make this one for themselves.


    whatamIsaying.

    There's a lot of potential for humour with this shirt...
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  27. firepilot

    firepilot New Member

    Or....What The F$%^ Are they Saying...
    What in the Hell Are they Saying
     
  28. Ross Marsden

    Ross Marsden Senior Member

    "what in the world are they thinking?"
     
  29. firepilot

    firepilot New Member

    And yet more stolen photos, where they remove any watermark or copywrite, and then they edit it and in this case, add their own names.

    Apparently chemtrails is such an imminent crisis, that its okay to exaggerate and add contrails in order to make the skies look much worse.
     
  30. Danny55

    Danny55 Member

  31. Spongebob

    Spongebob Active Member

  32. Danny55

    Danny55 Member

    One recurring suggestion on the various CT forums, to enable people to find out some nefarious machiavellian plot, is
    "Follow The Money!" t shirt.
     
  33. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    That's interesting. I've updated the top post with the infighting. I wonder how many of the other participants would feel that way - and how many knew the extreme position of the film when they were interviewed.

    I suspect they were just told it was a sequel to WITWATS.
     
  34. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    For the record, because the record is liable to be a moving target with these people, here is the 'Press Release', which, BTW, does not appear at Michael J. Murphy's own website:
    PRESS RELEASE: Rosalind Peterson and Michael Murphy RE: “Great Culling”
    by Neo on December 31st, 2011 at 4:43 PM
    Posted In: CHEMTRAILS, WORLD ALERTPRESS RELEASE
    http://www.thetruthdenied.com/news/...peterson-and-michael-murphy-re-great-culling/

     
  35. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    So, does Wittenburger actually believe there's a "great cull" in operation? Or is this an "ends justify the means" exaggerations to get the message across? Or is it all a hoax?

    If he's a 911 truther, why would he promote a hoax? :confused:
     
  36. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    I don't know what he believes, but Wittenberg doesn't seem very concerned with accuracy. His personal website speaks about geothermal engineering chemtrails.....

    Michael J. Murphy had some coments on his facebook page, rather negative ones from someone who berated him, and he admitted that he has already spoken about depopulaton, so Rosalind Peterson isn't the only one speaking two-faced. I think he is using Peterson as a tool against his competition.
    Its a "Power Play".

    She is the woman who never uses the word chemtrails, but appears on Alex Jones who is stoking the "Culling" stuff to strike fear-buying amongst his flock. None of it really makes sense, nor do most of them.

    How many times has Michael J. Murphy declared that people were dying, being spayed with poison, and this was a "Crime Against Humanity"? Many times. He knows a large constituency believe this, and fears losing them, so in a later comment he said thank you to the person. However, he reposted the "press release" and an advert for Peterson, and is hoping the negativity falls off the bottom of the page soon....
     
  37. Danny55

    Danny55 Member

    Just been checking G Edward Griffin's FB page and there is very little to do with "chemtrails" , only a couple of posts by others.
    Is he disassociating himself from "chemtrails"?
     
  38. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I don't think that was ever a major focus for him. He's a conspiracy theorist from way-back and has lots of material, including books, on things like the Fed, cures for cancer, Noah's Ark, etc. Chemtrails was just something he readily accepted when MJM approached him.
     
  39. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  40. firepilot

    firepilot New Member

    There is a lot of infighting going on with the promoters of the chemtrail hoax, its less about the message, and more about being in control of the conspiracy, and trying to be a leader of it. Tony Hilder has been trying to remake chemtrails to be called Aircrap, Death Dumps, Air Auschwitz, but he and the website is just so over the top at times, they have not been successful.

    And Michael Murphy, this is silly with him being all sanctimonious regarding others continuing on and making a movie of their own. If the point was really about just trying to expose some nefarious plot, you would think he would be happy about it. However, others making a movie, does nothing to promote Mr Murphy and his Truth Media Productions, which is what this little tiff is all about.