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  1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Explanations and debunks for the variety of question that have been raised around the Sandy Hook shootings are scattered all over the web, including several on this site. This sub-forum will be repository of those explanations and debunks.

    This post will index the various different issues raised and link to either the relevant discussion thread on Metabunk, or to an external explanation.

    If there is anything missing, then feel free to start a new thread. Please post one topic (ie. one claim of evidence) per thread. Before posting anything, please read the Posting Guidelines.



    The People

    Incorrect and pre-event dates on the internet


    Other



    Some Other Sandy Hook Debunking Compendiums and Resources


    Sandy Hook Debunking Videos:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2016
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  2. jvnk08

    jvnk08 Active Member

    That's an awful lot of stuff there, but I'd just like to point out that the press don't have telepathy. There aren't vans and helicopters on stand-by 24/7 in preparation for these kinds of things. I imagine the first helicopter got there at least 20 minutes after first reports were received, maybe longer.
     
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  3. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    Just curious as to your thoughts on why the Social Security Death Index (SSDI) has Adam Lanza's date of death as Thursday 12-13-2012 in New Hampshire. NOT Friday 12-14-2012 in CT! Human Error? What a coincidence? SSDI has Adam's mothers death on 12-14-2012 but not his.... hmmm. It would pretty hard to shoot up a school and then commit suicide on Friday if you already had died on Thursday.

    Also what about the Facebook memorial pages that were created on Thursday (again, the day before the shooting). Do those people have ESP? One of the parent's (I don't know which one) set up a Facebook memorial page that morning right about the time of the shooting? How did that parent know so fast... when other parents were running around everywhere in the chaos trying to find their kids? And what parent would ACTUALLY set up a memorial Facebook page within minutes or hours of learning of their child's death?
     
  4. jvnk08

    jvnk08 Active Member

    Which seems more likely to you:

    Lanza was a patsy/scapegoat, and they killed him on Thursday. Then they dutifully wrote down his correct age of death and put it in the publicly accessible SSDMF(Social Security Death Master File), completely giving away the false flag.

    Or, since SSDMF has an astronomical error rate because they rely solely upon manual data entry, it is an error.


    There is another thread about this subject already.

    https://www.metabunk.org/threads/1090-SSDI-says-Adam-Lanza-died-a-day-before-Sandy-Hook-massacre
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
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  5. hopstoopid

    hopstoopid Banned Banned

    ok then lets start at the top. why was the nurse in the closet until 115 if they swept the building 4x and "checked every nook and cranny" ?


    2nd, i just asked if there was uncut versions of the helicopter footage. it looks like we get a shot of one the copters arriving. then its cut up into the pieces we've probably all looked at already. I wasn't asking to see footage of the school before the shooting. but once they got there each one should have the camera rolling? until we see the gun in the car later that night? why no video of bodies being removed either?

    i just watched the chase video again. it seems as there are 6! bodies in total in those woods.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=E4SKmL79CVc
     
  6. angryjock

    angryjock New Member

    Yes. Please read the other pages on the site before ranting about Facebook. It is widely known now that you can replace an existing 'page' there with new info and the date created does not change. Google, Vimeo and Twitter dating can't be used as legal tools either.

    Mick has done a great job of aggregating a lot of information here. Better yet you could just ask yourself the kind of logical questions that jvnk08 just did. Which is more likely, a vast conspiracy involving hundreds, if not 1,000 people accidentally posted memorial webpages before the tragedy OR internet dates are not accurate and/or can be changed?

    Mind you, no one SAW these pages until on or after the 14th of December.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  7. LogicAndSanity

    LogicAndSanity New Member

    The Emilie Parker donation page was created ON December 14th. This is something anyone can confirm. It is bizarre, just like everything else about Sandy Hook.
     
  8. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Either
    A) She actually came out earlier, but the time has been reported incorrectly
    or
    B) She did come out at that time because the police locked down the school, and removed people one group at a time, only when it was known to be safe to move them.
     
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  9. LogicAndSanity

    LogicAndSanity New Member


    You're talking about dead bodies being removed from the school? The medical examiner Wayne Carver said in his press conference that all bodies were removed and transferred by 1am on Saturday morning in 3 disguised "unmarked" vehicles to "foil" the press. He said this literally.

    This is the full version of his VERY bizarre press conference. At the 1:30 mark is where he talks about the bodies being transferred by 1am, and the autopsy's being completed at 1:30am (in a tent?). At the 14:30 mark is where he talks about how they used disguised unmarked vehicles to foil the press.



    Here's the more condensed version, this guy is an unprofessional creepy weirdo and notice how he can't even answer almost ANY of the questions.

     
  10. hopstoopid

    hopstoopid Banned Banned


    A) she said both 115, and i was in there for nearly 4 hours. pretty clear that is wasn't incorrect.

    B) let me try and figure this out. they swept the building at least 4x. so in theory a shooter's'(she was in there with Barbara Halstaed) could've hid in the closet in the office until 115. ? or they saw the nurse and told her to not move until we come get you?

    what about a C? :)

    she doesn't mention any of this. so its hard to say. is there anyone else who backs up this particular story? The FBIi was there also before this time. no one felt like it was safe to go get the 2 nice ladies from the closet with all those feds there?

    Please mr/mrs logicandsanity. this thread isn't too hard to follow. Also i think these other topics have a thread already. I know i'm new here, but just some simple reading and comprehension would help move these conversations forward instead of re-hashing things that have been discussed non-stop, here and on other sites. I tried to bring up some questions that i couldn't find any discussion about. I would love to hear any comments about the questions i have brought up.

    I'm sure Mike will move these as he sees fit, but I would love to see a few different threads here discussing any of my questions, if they aren't too simple to explain.


    Also a few things i've found since my first post. 1st i've noted the 6!! people in the woods on the "chase into the woods" segment of copter footage. also another youtuber has put out a HD video that has lots of closeups and more detailed look. He is also attempting to time stamp these videos to give us a better sense of a timeline.He goes through some explanation in some of his other videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX2ITHV6k-U
    in the comments it notes that there is a possible gene rosen sighting in these videos,they give the time he shows up. there is a man walking around the firehouse who looks like gene and is wearing the same thing as he did in the interviews he gave that day. the poster makes a pretty convincing argument that its 11:15 at the time of these videos. Now what time did rosen say the kids were there? when did he call the parents. ? I will try and look into what he says his timeline is.
     
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  11. jvnk08

    jvnk08 Active Member

    First, lets just make it clear that eyewitness testimony is notoriously inaccurate. People not only get things outright wrong in one interview, but they also conflate issues between interviews. Secondly it is also not uncommon for an interviewee to want to "be a part" of whatever happened, and exaggerate their story.

    I think B is quite likely. The police have no idea as to the extent of what's going on. They cleared the woods and other schools in the area too.

    I'm fairly certain they weren't the only ones stuck wherever they were hiding. I imagine the children were the top priority to get out considering their number. Parents were probably showing up like crazy, so I imagine it would be a priority to get the kids to their parents so they can get out of there and free up some space.

    Is it unlikely that Gene Rosen, who lives directly adjacent to the firehouse, appeared at the firehouse? I'll note we see plenty of other things that refute some of the other popular claims floating around: plenty of ambulances(I count at least 5) and non-EMS persons, including children.

    If this is a movie set, why are these people walking around directly on it? Are they in on it too?
     
  12. LogicAndSanity

    LogicAndSanity New Member


    Speaking of a movie set, here's a video analyzing the entire scene from an aerial view. In this video you can see how the Fire Station itself was made to look as if it were the school. Notice all the ambulances and emergency vehicles were blocked in, so they couldn't be used, even if they were needed.

    Start the video at the 3:30 mark, and turn your volume up. This video originally had over 200k views before it was pulled and the entire YouTube account deleted.

     
  13. hopstoopid

    hopstoopid Banned Banned

    "eyewitness testimony is notoriously inaccurate"
    i get that. but if you notice, i try and use only direct words and video. i try not to get to involved in the theory of actors. although things are very strange with most of them. It seems as if their stories are all a bit different. There is plenty more focus in other threads about the 'actors" that's not in the scope of what i've been asking.

    I think they mention that this is from sunday morning. So she has plenty of time to figure out how long she's been there. She doesn't seem confused about the time, because she is consistent with the time as she says "1:15" with the "nearly 4 hours"

    I agree witnesses are sometimes confused and get mixed up. but now you are using a "theory" to explain what she said specifically. There is not one other person corroborating her story so we have to go with what we have, as of now. I am open to explanations but that seems fairly thin to me.

    "They cleared the woods and other schools in the area too."

    so the cleared the woods and other schools, but still made the poor nurse sit there to make sure?



    "I'm fairly certain they weren't the only ones stuck wherever they were hiding"

    why is that? do you have a link for me?

    "I imagine the children were the top priority to get out considering their number"
    again, why do you imagine that? do you think they went through the building saw the nurse, told her to hold tight, we are checking for kids first.? what are you using to base this on? has there been anyone else who said that? is there another situation that you are thinking of where this has happened specifically.? I don't want to come off like a dk, but I'm just asking to understand.

    "Parents were probably showing up like crazy, so I imagine it would be a priority to get the kids to their parents so they can get out of there and free up some space."
    ok another "theory" i have to respond to. so to dispute me, now you've used. "I imagine" "were probably" "I'm fairly certain" are you a conspiracy theorist? :)
    I think parents were showing up, but the "like crazy part," i haven't seen. I don't even know what the last part means, "free up some space"?

    "Is it unlikely that Gene Rosen, who lives directly adjacent to the firehouse, appeared at the firehouse?" NO, I think I just suggested that maybe his timeline doesn't jive with this video, if its him. The Poster in the last youtube video i linked says it is at 1025am not 1115.
    ".. plenty of ambulances..."
    well a few, and why are they so far away. that doesn't make sense, but its not my focus . fact:they are far away. the rest is speculation.
    "if this is a movie set"
    i definitely did not say that, or allude to that(thats a whole 'nother tiger) can we please keep the conversation on point, and not put words in my mouth. I haven't alluded anything that is a conspiracy. I have asked basic questions, imo, that haven't been answered yet. If you want to argue if its a movie set with actors, I'm sure you can find someone to argue that point with. It just won't be me.
     
  14. jvnk08

    jvnk08 Active Member

    This has happened at other school shootings. Why wouldn't there be other people in the same situation as her?

    Yes, I am speculating, but I am erring on the side of simplicity in explanations rather than the complexity introduced with a false flag attack. I'm applying what is called Occam's razor.

    You've seen aerial shots of the school, you know there is a only two lane road servicing the entrance road and that it was packed. How can you not understand "free up some space"?

    I count 5 at least. They were using a golf cart to move people in and out, anyways(you can see it in the Oleem video).

    Considering the proximity of the firehouse to the school, it makes sense that the 3 wounded would have been evacuated immediately after police arrived and secured the room(s) where the shooting took place.

    The helicopters didn't get there immediately, so we don't see this to confirm, but just keep in mind there's a fire station, with ambulances, 1000ft from the school, so response time was nothing for them.

    Notice the large triage area closer to the school(but really, it's only about 800ft closer from what I find using the ruler on Google earth) . That is all completely standard procedure in preparation for the number of casualties they might have had to deal with.

    All of these questions stem from the false flag/hoax theory. Please don't try to pretend you're "just asking questions", you aren't. Don't try to pretend you formulated these suspicions regarding the oh-so-apparent inconsistencies in reporting on your own, you didn't. Everything you've brought up is a variation on those inconsistencies.
     
  15. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  16. angryjock

    angryjock New Member

    Who 'made' the Fire Station look as if it was the school? Random YouTubers from around the world were confused by what they saw. Cameras were off the school because nothing was happening there anymore. Even the first footage you see over and over in these videos could be as much as an hour after the shootings. The school was secured by cops but they were now handling the larger issue of all the children at the firehouse.

    Ambulances are often not used when the victims are all dead so it does not matter that they were 'blocked in'. There was no ongoing action requiring them. 26 dead. 3 people went to the hospital. That's it. Not every ambulance ride is videotaped. Victims who die at the scene of the crime are not driven in ambulances.
     
  17. hopstoopid

    hopstoopid Banned Banned

    not sure i've ever heard of this happenning before , do you have any examples. ?

    the simplest thing for you to think of is that they LEFT them in there after they found them? I can't even conceive of that conversation. also in becks interview the daughter of the other lady says they didnt know if she was alive or dead. So they found them, told them to wait, and didnt tell their family, they didnt tell them to call their family and tell them they're safe?(by the way are these the last 2 people on earth without a cell?) or because they didnt want any more cars clogging up the road. ?I'm sorry ms. nurse, you need to stay in here and wait until the road is clear, then you can tell your family you are alive. " The simplest explaination would be they never looked in that closet. She says this as well in the interview on friday night "I think we surprised them"

    the ambulance thing. i clearly said , this is not my focus. they look to me like they are far away, as i said, the rest is speculation." refute some of the other popular claims floating around: plenty of ambulances." so why did you quote me, if you are refuting other people. You keep bringing different things into our discussion.

    i never once mentioned false flag/hoax/conspiracy/movie set/fake actors/fake websites. please do not dilute the conversation with how you think i think. I never pretended to formulate these suspicions myself. I am looking for discussion on what i think are the most important questions, that HAVEN"T been discussed anywhere that i can find. It seems you are pretending to answer my questions with "SPECULATION" you said this. If you have an idea please share. If there was something I had overlooked when asking these questions again, please share. If there is somewhere on the web where you can show me, and help me find these answers. I would appreciate it. If you are going to continue to "speculate" and tell me how I think, well i'm sorry but i'm not going to keep responding to you. It seems to me, you think everybody is either either group1 believe the story according to wiki. or 2 the school is a hologram and that Vance is a shapeshifter/bildeburger. Let me remind you, some of us actually like to think for ourselves and make sure the media and the govt aren't lying to us AGAIN!!MSM is so digustingly PC with their snide remarks! if they did they job correctly and didn't just throw us their owners propaganda, maybe we wouldn't have to ask these. Why shouldn't somebody help clear up the confusion, and answer. Are these kind of questions just LOL too easy for the media to ask?

    So, IMO, I think they did not look into every nook and cranny and search the school 4x over. So what does that say? Does that mean we shouldn't believe anything that Vance tells us anymore? was it a communication break down? This is a very serious question to ask him. HOW could you over look 2 people in the closet of the school after you tell the whole world that you cleared the school, the woods,and every other school in the area? Didn't this guy participate in the 'biggest drill in the history of conn" ? Does the WHOLE dept need to be trained again? Is someone from the dept ever going to explain this? seriously isn't this a huge WTF?


    ok so now, might we be able to discuss the other questions. how about an easy one? when was roy low interviewed?

    or how about this , is there any explanation for shots in front of school? 3 cars got shot up in the parking lot. I actually didnt see ONE bullet marker or any of those arrow things they use to figure out the direction of the bullets. Is there a picture of any? If not can anyone explain why not? I'm not sure are if these are hoax questions. conspiracy questions,false flag or pretend questions. But maybe you can just amuse me and answer. without using "your imagination" this time. thanks.
     
  18. HappyMonday

    HappyMonday Moderator

    "I can bring things up and give my opinion,but you may not,".
     
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  19. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    So what exactly are you doing here? You're not mentioning conspiracy, yet you suspect that the media and government are lying to us, feeding up propaganda? You don't think it was a hoax, yet by your nit-picking spotlighting of every inconsistency you certainly seem to be hinting that something here is fake.

    The general themes of "I'm just asking questions" and "I'm not suggesting anything" are basically passive-agressive conspiracy mongering. It's not concern about the competence of the police or the media. It's an indirect accusation that there's a conspiracy going on here, that the story is somehow made up.

    The questions you ask are banal. They are about inconsistencies in a narrative that any reasonable person would fully expect to be inconsistent. They signify nothing. So what if the nurse and the secretary were in the closet for four hours? So what if there were no visible bullet markers in helicopter footage? So what if you don't understand every single little thing in two hours of police radio traffic?

    Why on earth would you expect there to be an encyclopedic accounting of tens of thousands, of details? Why on earth would you expect there to be no inconsistencies in the media reports?

    You are dealing with a scene that started in chaos, death, gore, terror, shock, and paralyzing fear. Accounts of chaos are going to be chaotic. Then you've got a developing scene involving literally thousands of people over a full day, and then into the weeks beyond. Millions of details.

    Who will tell the story of this scene?

    The police are concerned first with ensuring safety, and then with investigating. They want to figure out exactly what happened. But they are going to produce a report, and it's not going to satisfy everyone, because it's not going to cover stuff the police do not feel is relevant. Purple van with guys in masks? Not an issue, so not in the report. Guy in the wood? Policeman, not in the report. So the story is not going to satisfy.

    The media are concerned with filling the air or the page with words and images. So they repeat what they see, they show interviews, they repeat things they heard, they read from police statements, they chat with each other. They are not interested in creating an encyclopedia.

    Wikipedia is interested in creating an encyclopedia, and probably have the most useful account of events. But their account is drawn from "reliable sources", which is generally media accounts. So it's a synthesis of something that was created to fill space. A distillation, and and fairly consistent and useful one, but not really an in-depth one.

    The individual, you or I, we can't tell the story in the encyclopedic detail that is demanded, because it's too big. There's already weeks and weeks worth of TV coverage. Millions of words in print. There were hundreds of people there. Can we talk to them all? It would take days simply to independently verify the bare bones Wikipedia entry. It can't be done.

    I'm not going to play whack-a-mole with every little inconsistence in the official story, because there is no official story. Police statements and media reports do not make an official story, they are what they are, and inconsistencies, and incompletions, are to be expected. Some will never be resolved.

    What would be good questions to ask? A good question would be one where you genuinely cannot suggest a reasonable answer. A good question would be one that requires something other than poor recollection, or police incompetence, or lack of media access, or poor judgement to explain it. There's a million questions about the scene. You could ask questions for years. You need to ask better questions.
     
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  20. LogicAndSanity

    LogicAndSanity New Member

    Great HD video you got there. Out of all these people, you see almost NO children. I thought the school was being evacuated or had been evacuated? The people look almost like extras on a movie set. They seem to be walking around in circles at the fire house, almost as if in a loop, out one door in the other, go around back, repeat. Gene Rosen was also spotted multiple times in this video wandering around mindlessly. At the 9:09 minute mark, you could see what appears to be a dummy. Thanks for this video man. Let's keep the evidence coming.

     
  21. HappyMonday

    HappyMonday Moderator

    Not been following this thread too closely, but I don't interpret the details in this video the way you describe above, except for the lack of children.
     
  22. jvnk08

    jvnk08 Active Member

    You must not be looking very closely.

    Let's start with the children: we can see plenty outside. At 3:40 look in the top right corner of the firestation. From what I understand, a lot of kids were inside the firestation(you can see a lot being led in and out the double doors throughout the footage).

    No, there couldn't be some reason for them to be walking around, of course they must be extras.

    Gene Rosen was seen once as far as I can confirm, but "wandering around" is what we call anecdote. Considering he lives across the street from the firestation, why wouldn't he be there...?

    About 9:09....you sure you're watching this in 720p? We see nothing that looks remotely like a corpse or dummy. There's one woman sitting in a chair rocking back and forth. It looks like her feet are propped up on the chair that is perpendicular to hers.
     
  23. LogicAndSanity

    LogicAndSanity New Member

    I think we've counted 6 children in the entire video, some are not even school age children (being carried by parents). At 9:09 there is clearly a dummy laying on some type of fold out table.

    Remember, the school had 600+ students, where are they?
     
  24. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    ohmygod they are hiding the other 580 bodies!!!!
     
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  25. jvnk08

    jvnk08 Active Member

    Is 6 supposed to be a low number of kids for the given situation? I counted the same number of children, but you know what else I saw? Press, armed swat police, various EMS personnel, all sorts of other folks that various videos have claimed were not present.

    Please, oh please, take a screenshot of the dummy at 9:09 and circle it for me, because I honestly do not see anything that looks remotely like a dummy.

    The school actually only had ~450 students. Here is the roster:

    http://www.newtown.k12.ct.us/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=yrE601iIboU=&tabid=3295&mid=39347
     
  26. jvnk08

    jvnk08 Active Member

    The time estimation for this video is definitely suspect, I seriously doubt it was before noon given the shadow direction.
     
  27. LogicAndSanity

    LogicAndSanity New Member

    You counted 6 children as well? Most of the people in the video are NOT swat police or EMS personnel and even if Sandy Hook only had 456 students (according to your link), WHERE ARE THEY? What were all those people doing in the video? They sure as hell weren't there to pick up any children.

    If its not a dummy, what is it?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  28. hemi

    hemi Active Member

    The white thing on the chair next to the person sitting down? It could be anything.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  29. jvnk08

    jvnk08 Active Member

    Honestly I thought it was her feet propped up on the chair....maybe not. But what about that shape makes you think it was a dummy?
     
  30. LogicAndSanity

    LogicAndSanity New Member

    The head.

    Here's a shadow direction analysis of the previous video. Judging by the amount of daylight and the lack of children, I was assuming the video was probably recorded in the afternoon, probably sometime between 3:30 and 4pm. Because it gets dark early in mid December, (5:30pm or earlier), and the shadows appear long.

    To my SURPRISE, 20 seconds into the video, the estimated time of day is 10:26am EST give or take 4 minutes. Wasn't the school shooting at 9:30am? WHERE ARE THE CHILDREN?

     
  31. hopstoopid

    hopstoopid Banned Banned

    What am I doing here? I am asking questions trying to find a conversation about what i think are under discussed questions that i find as odd, or inconsistent. Is that not the point of the website/thread.? "If there is anything missing, then feel free to start a new thread, or simply post a question or explanation here"

    It seems like mike and jvn keep using the word hoax, conspiracy. Please stop using these condescending labels and engage in a discussion.
    I said that too?

    Banal? Really? I've admitted I'm not that bright. can you please explain them to me then. i have a few questions and that as far as i can tell haven't been brought up on here,or debunked or haven't been addressed in general. .... I'm not in any way implying anything by asking these questions. I honestly am just looking for answers since I'm curious, and haven't been bright enough find these, as of yet. for myself. I am also going to continue to look into these questions and will bring up my finding on here. but according to you its passive-agressive conspiracy mongering. that is not discussion that is labeling, and avoiding the question, and changing the subject. Nice try.

    Well i did answer the "so what" to the secretary. did you read?
    so what to visible bullet markers,? isnt this standard procedure for a 'real' crime scene/. therefore not seeing them brings up questions. not in your eyes i guess.
    so what there were shots out front? well wiki doesn't say this. is this debunked? what would it actually imply if there were shots out front? Well doesn't that put the WHOLE narrative in question? What do you think it means?
    Every little thing in the 911 tapes? I'm sorry did you not have any questions about the "long guns and shotguns" "shots in front of school" "3 different suspects in custody" 'a van with possible suspects" In your opinion these are little things that don't require further answers?

    I didn't ask for tens of thousands of details or to interview a thousand people. can i ask for 4 people?. how about 1 spokesman for the police to address inconsistant issues with 911 scanner, asking about 911 call log. who was in the front of the cop car in cuffs? . who was the tactical policeman? and what is his story? who were the 2 shadows running past the gym, and what did you do with the 2 men you apprehended in the woods. who were the 2 persons you followed in the purple van. did you actually find them? and if yes what happened to them? How many bullets did you recover? were the 4 doors of the suspects car actually open as the mother said. if they were , whey did you close them?why did you wait until nightime to search the car? how many guns did you find in the trunk? what was the clothing we see on the copter video and which the mother said she saw in front of the car. ? why did the first responders go to the back of the school? why did you continue to look for more suspects according to the video?why were there automatic weapons drawn and checking cars?was there any video of the shooting, and when will you release it? how did he get in the front. 911 tapes say there was broken glass , but pics show no broken glass. if there was a suspect on the loose, why didnt you check the closet where the nurse was.? how can you claim you checked every nook and cranny 4x and not found the nurse. ? who was shooting in front of the school ? what were the ballistics and point of origin of these shots? What suspects house did you secure and investigate? did cuoric, cooper, beck, vance answer these questions. and why not? too easy? not important? UNINTERESTING?

    I want to ask andrea mccaron who she talked to exactly and what did she look like? why did you believe her?

    i want to ask pete williams. who were the federal and state officials who told them on sunday(not exactly in the fog of the story) that there were only 4 handguns in the school.? Who told you that Adam Lanza visited the school the day before and confronted 4 teachers. ?

    I want to ask the guy who sent out the twitter about the authorities checking the 2nd gunmens home.How did you get this info ?

    that is 4! not a thousand.

    Also the media is responsible for shaping peoples opinion . I get to talk to a lot of people, and if i can make a guess( speculation alert!!!!!) 80% know these things. lanza, goth, loner, killed kids, teachers were heroes,AR15..."sad, how could anyone do that, they should do something.".. conspiracy kooks.

    you don't want to inquire about what "a tactical policeman from another town" was doing in the woods during one of the biggest news stories in the history of the USA!, esp since 9/11?. Well then you aren't asking the right questions , or just blindly believe what you are told. debunk him. what was he doing there? You are not interested in why they were still pursuing other suspects? gee i wonder why it won't satisfy people who ask "passive aggressive conspiracy questions"


    is the only reason i mentioned wiki. and there hasn't been an explanation to my questions and there isn't a reference to them. Therefore i guess to you they are banal.


    So what are you doing here?
    You said to check the official story off of wiki. Police and media reports don't make a story? then what does wiki? debunk.org ?
    I am honestly trying to ask question to help find a official story. I found inconsistencies,(no not on my own) I bring them up. I am STILL waiting for some real discussion.

    For the record mike, i believe you've only attempted to answer one of my questions specifically, and that was with a definitive its either A or B. Do you still think that? Did you come to a different conclusion? OR since the attempted simplistic answer seems to be wrong, now i hear you saying "WHO CARES?" Classic!!!

    Do you not have 1 problem with the 1 shooter and 3 guns story ?

    Now to jvn. were you done with our discussion? You still won't engage me with a real dialogue about the nurse(its ok) What about shots outside? ANy speculation on that? You are becoming very amusing to me.
    You say this " i see plenty of children" "6" (!) that is about 1.5% of the kids at the school is that a reasonable #?

    Then you continue with "what i understand" For at least the 3rd time itt I will ask , can you show me a link?

    You ask why wouldn't Gene Rosen be there? well lets see. He is on every single news channel saying he his home with 6 kids a man and a woman busdriver left on his front lawn. he had no idea what was going on. he brought them inside , gave them juice, played with stuffed animals, then called every parent. SO either he is lying about not knowing about what was going on, or he is lying about when the kids were there. I honestly haven't found a definitive Gene Rosen timeline, but i am looking. are you? You admit you think you saw him there. So wouldn't this be another huge discrepancy to the whole story. ?

    Then in another post you say
    another bad observation

    So here we go for the last time, please give links where asked. Or did you forget? you said there were times were people were locked in the closet and not found in other similiar situations.
    if alot=6.
    then i sent you a link were patjack has showed his work and why he thinks its 1030am in the video i linked. GIve me one reason why you think
    Please OH Please tell me why you say this!!!

    JVN you are derailing everysingle question with "i believe" "i imagine" " I seriously doubt" "From what i understand" "i am fairly certain" "were probably" "i AM speculating" You really need to stop pretending you know something and show us something other than speculation.
     
  32. jvnk08

    jvnk08 Active Member

    Nurse's story was adequately addressed by Mick, which you ignored.

    What about them? Are you implying someone in a house nearby should have heard them?

    Well, your retelling of his story is pretty shoddy, but barring that - even at 10:30, why wouldn't he be there? He can see all of this commotion out of his windows, why would he not bring the kids across the street after a bit. Maybe the 6 kids we see are them?

    This is a false dichotomy in a vain attempt to prove he's lying about something, anything at all. You haven't even confirmed his timeline(or so you say), which is what this dichotomy is based on anyways.

    Your true colors. You're not looking for rational answers, you're not looking for an "official story" that is supposedly lacking from the media and police, you're looking for little discrepancies between eyewitness accounts(flawed) and aerial footage(offset from those accounts by hours in some cases).

    Other people pointed out his shadow analysis was wrong in the comments, but the video detailing his methodology affirms that it must have been at 1030am assuming he did everything correctly.

    Secondly, yes - if you seriously need confirmation, being on lockdown for hours after a shooting is not uncommon in the slightest. Some examples:

    http://www.npr.org/2012/10/11/162712905/to-survive-a-shooting-students-learn-to-fight-back

    The article goes on to detail new methods of dealing with such a crisis, but the point is that standard procedure is everyone stays put until police are 100% sure of the situation.


    Just as an example, several schools went on lockdown(meaning everyone stuck wherever they are) for an hour just because someone might be near the school with a gun. 4 hours on lockdown is not a stretch in the slightest given the gravity of the situation.
    http://blog.al.com/wire/2012/12/schools_around_country_-_inclu.html

    Two hours on lockdown and the initial call was faked by students:
    http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...llowing-Report-of-Man-With-Gun-188382611.html

    Virginia Tech's entire campus was on lockdown for 5 hours following the more recent shooting of a campus police officer, but perhaps they're biased?
    http://hamptonroads.com/2011/08/gun-scare-locks-down-va-tech-campus-hours

    This school planned to go on lockdown for a week if the person was not found:
    http://tribstar.com/latest/x964887365/Bloomfield-schools-on-lock-down-after-attempted-entry

    And yet, your analysis is nothing but the same. The difference is I am applying sound logic in the form of Occam's razor, while you are nitpicking at vague-at-best inconsistencies trying to suss out some deception that occurred there.

    In the end, what do these discrepancies prove to you?

    That the media trips all over itself in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy like this trying to be the first ones with the news?

    Or that there is a massive gov't coverup involving 20 dead children that has been uncovered by the oh-so-methodical, unbiased truther community?

    Please, detail for me how this false flag shooting went down. Please fill in the gaps for me as to the serious lack of research done on the part of the orchestrators of the attack. Please inform me why they hired amateurs to pull all of this off, who then failed miserably at convincing the very people it needed to convince in order to "take everyone's guns".

    Why wouldn't this shooting have been much worse in order to guarantee public support of new gun control legislation, i.e. wounded/dead police?
     
    • Like Like x 4
  33. hopstoopid

    hopstoopid Banned Banned

    Nurse's story was adequately addressed by Mick, which you ignored. adequately addressed? according to who? ignored?did you read?
    What about them? Are you implying someone in a house nearby should have heard them? please show me when i said that , if i thought that i probably would've addressed it. maybe they did and called 911, i would like to hear the tapes. read what i said. it never questions or implies anything about the neighbors. derailing again. jvn what do you think it means that there were shots out front according to the 911 tapes? and the bullet holes in the 3 cars. You can either answer the specific question i asked there or not answer. what do you do.? you ask me if i was implying something. You spend a lot of words either telling me what i think, telling me your speculations or asking me to explain something someone else said.
    i am currently looking through videos of gene and trying to piece his story together. He was interviewed by nearly everyone that day. He is part of the narrative that media is forcing on us. maybe he is just a big liar. but i can't call him out for that or figure out what it means without being labeled. If you don't know the answer it is ok not to comment.


    This is a false dichotomy in a vain attempt to prove he's lying about something, anything at all. You haven't even confirmed his timeline(or so you say), which is what this dichotomy is based on anyways.

    ok, i will connect the dots for you. IF he at the FS at 1030. it can only mean 2! things. it was after his story or before. if it was before the kids came to his house , it means he did know what was going on, he repeated story this at least 4-5x. if it was after,he would have to do all this.the kids got to his house, he saw the kids, walked them in his house, went upstairs got stuffed animals, got them juice, listened to their stories, called their parents, and all 6 parents picked up there kids already,all in ~45mins. or he left them by themselves, (he never mentions his wife was there) then wanders over to the fs and is found pacing, and in no hurry to do anything. occams razor, he is a liar. conspiracy, he was planted. either way this isn't important?

    Other people pointed out his shadow analysis was wrong in the comments, but the video detailing his methodology affirms that it must have been at 1030am assuming he did everything correctly.
    did you just admit you were talking out of you azz with that comment. " I seriously doubt it was before noon by the shadows." ? only one person claims he is wrong, iirc.

    if you seriously need confirmation..... no i asked for a link to show me (2) people who had been missing, NOT accounted for, and were "stuck' in a closet during a press conference in which the head policeman on the scene said he checked" every nook and cranny" i also think he said( i will try and confirm) at this press conf. he was waiting until everyone was accounted for, although it couldve been a later PC. if you know that'd be great.
    thanks for the links. although i understand the lockdown concept, this seems a little different. So a 125 building 2600!!acre campus with 32,000 kids and personel was on lockdown for 5 hours, this is a fairly small elem school, and 4 hours later..... also hadn't the lockdown ended by the time of his press conf. ? again. this isn't proving or disproving any hoax or conspiracy. i am ASKING a question. occams razor. they effed up! conspiracy. he is on script. either way, this isn't important?

    i said false flag?NOW i have to tell you the whole detailed story and explain something that didn't happen? or do i want to hold people accountable and "show their work" I am attempting to debunk the story. if the story was solid it wouldn't have all these leaks.

    I really find it funny. that instead of discussing the questions I put forward. I have to argue semantics, reading comprehension, or am asked to prove things i never asked in the first place.

    Instead of the name calling I thought we can discuss each question specifically without it having to mean anything about a full blown hoax. if we can break down each story, we can help build the narrative, so far itt we are trying to prove gene is lying and if the police messed up. that doesn't point to a whole picture, but it helps to break down the official narrative. can we try again. ? please disagree with me, with facts/links/video proof anything. There is still lots to discuss from my first post. Or how about another,do you believe in the 1 shooter 3 gun story? and why? myself, i don't believe the 1 shooter 3 gun story, so i support my "theory" by showing examples of inconsistencies and why i think its important to find out.

    I will be back later with links to the broken front window, and a possible 2nd gun in the trunk, and an unidentified lady being put in the ambulance. there is so much to this story, can we all please try to debunk the narrative or support it. without trying to figure out if one is a CT or "hoaxer/truther" whatever. its non-sense.
     
  34. hopstoopid

    hopstoopid Banned Banned

    broken front windows at school
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK0v4JhQ35Y :06 to 11 seconds in. although this is the next day. :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFgHIwbd4so
    right about :39 seconds in this clip,is that 2 guns we can see?
    at about 2mins we see man on right take out 1 gun for sure. the man on the left sure looks like he reaches in a pulls out another long gun. slow it down, freeze it, there is a light shadow on the "the gun" as he walks away.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=KNsFAbGTdKk&NR=1
    longer version of this feed.


    I don't know how to put in a screen shot. or i would.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwqA6HKxLTs
    has this woman been accounted for? not as far as i can tell so far. anyone know? about :40



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSEjVNBRhyo

    first press conference with vance listen carefully at about 1:14 " immediately upon arrival entered the school and began a complete active-shooter search of the building , that included checking EVERY DOOR! every crack, every crevice, every portion of that school. our main objective was to evacuate as quickly and efficiently as possible any and all students and faculuty in the school, the entire school was searched that was accomplished....soon thereafter the children and staff were reunited with their loved one....suffice it to say the scene is secure "
    i am currently trying to find out exactly when this press conference was, anyone? i remember before the PC they said there would be one at 1pm. this is kind of important too. well maybe just to me.

    i was saying i never saw bullet markers or anything in the parking lot. or anything on the sub teachers car. but i did spot this, one van in the front row is covered in police tape. I'm not sure why.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMYZ1DqUzxU
     
  35. hopstoopid

    hopstoopid Banned Banned

    according to the blaze.
    daily mail.
    fox news
    in the interview with megan kelly,he says "later in the day(,fri), i looked at the casualty list and her son was on it"



    cnn interview. "i had no idea(what was going on)....

    AP interview "this other lady came to my house at 1200.... i looked at the casualty list at 6:00"

    On Saturday, the Connecticut State Police released a list of the names of the 26 victims who were shot and killed at a Connecticut elementary school. 12. 15.12 huffington post
    i have a screen shot of gene at 1:13 but couldn't upload it in a big size, i will learn. he is on the right in his blue jacket, you can see light shirt, belt light pants. sunglasses. balding head.

    so this should be able to put gene there at 1027am. he said the kids came over about 930 and he stayed with them for hours.
    so what s up with that?
     

    Attached Files:

  36. LogicAndSanity

    LogicAndSanity New Member

    Recycling of "extras" at the Firehouse

     
  37. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    it would be nice if they actually kept track of the people
     
  38. hopstoopid

    hopstoopid Banned Banned

    ok i isolated these pics. i'm not sure what it is exactly. it does look like they are pulling something else long out of the trunk. its not 100% convincing. what else could it be though? also. i really don't get why they wouldn't just say we found 2 guns in the car. this wouldn't change 'their' 'official' story. it would change nothing as far as i can see. Soooo the question would be. What is it? Even if it's not a gun, how come they don't comment on what they found? just weird. here is 1 pic of the trunk, we see something else in there. and a little bit later we see dude pull something out. i froze the best frame, imo. i also have some frames of what i would say is the shadow on the ground. as he's turning around to walk away.i will load if wanted. what do you guys think. ?

    trunkgun2. gunhilite1.
     
  39. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Senior Member

    Are they holding anything before they open the trunk? eg, hand radios, guns?
    Might it be the shotgun's magazine? They seem to be quite large.

    It could be random stuff you normally keep in the boot... an umbrella, tire iron. Although not sure if they would bother to remove those as well, or just weapons?

    (have not watched video because on mobile internet)

    And you're right, there is no reason they wouldn't say they had found two guns, unless they are doing the 'non-specific information' thing that most police departments are good at in the first stages of an investigation. I think the insinuation is that "they're not telling us everything!" therefore they must be lying about the whole event. But they're not even being given a chance to do their investigation before people are baying for a finalised version of events.
    It is just a case of internet investigators scouring for anything that can conceivably be at odds with a police statement to cast suspicion on the whole event. The suspicion is there before-hand, then evidence is sought to support it.
    I can sympathise with the urge to know the full story, we all have that, but the level this is on (the general 'this whole thing was a fake set-up by Obama to take my gun and those parents aren't really mourning dead children' movement) seems kind of ridiculously selfish and narcissistic, as well as completely sickening and ugly. "Tell me exactly every little detail of what happened now! they wanna take my guuurn!"

    For the record, I think there is definitely a sickening politicisation of this event, there always will be with these things, and some ridiculous knee-jerk responses (video-games?) but also some of the concern (high-powered weapon availability in American society) is genuine and reasonable. But none of the weapons were owned by Adam anyway, so legislation wouldn't have affected his access to them in the first place.
     
  40. hopstoopid

    hopstoopid Banned Banned

    Pete, i would like to congratulate you on a specific response .
    I also would invite you to look through my few(maybe long) posts and you would see that i never put out any generalizations or big picture hypothesis together. I am just trying to figure this out as I go along. I am asking specific questions about specific inconsistencies . I wouldn't really expect you to know that, since i am fairly new here. I am looking for a good discussion. So far I've pretty much had to believe I am "conspiracy monger" or having people tell me what i am really thinking. or implying between the words i am saying, or having to defend every CT on the internet.

    I think the insinuation is that "they're not telling us everything!" therefore they must be lying about the whole event. But they're not even being given a chance to do their investigation before people are baying for a finalised version of events.
    It is just a case of internet investigators scouring for anything that can conceivably be at odds with a police statement to cast suspicion on the whole event. The suspicion is there before-hand, then evidence is sought to support it.


    Well , in general, I guess you got me there. But if "we"prove over and over they're not telling us everything, or fudging truths. Then in fact the whole event should be looked at in a new light(anderson cooper maybe will do this ? LOL!)For example, you can read my gene rosen questions. or the nurse in the closet questions, i have raised here. Those at an initial thinking seem to me like, gene rosen is a liar(is this an independent liar or part of the "script") and the police messed up. was it incompetence? hard to say, since it seems like they don't want to talk about it. Is this conspiracy mongering or a healthy skepticism(i thought the point of this site)

    The ruse is "we want our community to heal, leave us alone, we told you the WHOLE story already, leave our sad community be" In my first post i allude to this, then go on to say ,
    if the authorities are actually looking into all this quietly . i can understand that, and would love to see what they say as the FINAL OFFICIAL STORY. It does seem like things are still being uncovered by us "internet investigators" although I don't really consider myself and investigator, since i have a hard time finding these little tidbits on my own. But since there doesn't seem to be any "real" investigation by our beloved, bought and sold , main stream media, unfortunately this is all we got. we take the good with the bad. Hopefully the stuff that 'sticks' will be the stuff , that helps us find out if their story holds up.

    thanks again pete. I would love to hear more from you.
     
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