1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Metabunk 2019-01-02 16-30-22.
    Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.

    - Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen, April 28, 1997

    Bottom line:

    Cohen was talking at a conference about the time and resources wasted by false or imaginary terrorist threats, and for examples, he listed some speculative threats by Alvin Toffler, a futurist writer.

    Step 1 - Original Source:

    Step 2 - Context

    Cohen made the remark as part of an answer given at a conference, the Sam Nunn Policy Forum being hosted by the University of Georgia, "on Terrorism, Weapons of Mass Destruction, and U.S. Strategy", on April 28th 1997. His full answer is below, showing the quote in context. Emphasis mine.
    Step 3 - Establish the meaning of the terms, allusions and references in the quote and context

    The question is about "last week's scare here in Washington" and "that ... at B'nai Brith". This is referring to an incident on April 24th 1997, when a package labeled as antrax was found at the international headquarters of the B'nai B'rith Jewish fraternal organization in Washington D.C.
    http://www.cnn.com/US/9704/24/bnai.brith.early/ (http://archive.is/UaWyU)
    The incident created chaos, but turned out to be a false threat.
    http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/5673/questions-lingering-after-bizarre-mailing-to-b-nai-b-rith/ (http://archive.is/EYegu)
    So what Cohen is talking about is a "false threat", and "a false scare of a threat". He then goes on to list things that Alvin Toffler has written about. He's referring here to Toffler's 1995 book "War and Anti-War", which contains the following passage (pages 142-143, emphasis mine)

    Step 4 - Explain the meaning of the quote

    You have keep in mind that this is Cohen speaking off the cuff, in a live Q&A session. He's basically just saying things that come to mind. You also have to remember he's trying to promote policy. The message he reiterates is "we have to intensify our efforts [to deal with terrorism]".

    First, because the question was about an hoax terrorist attack, he's talking about the "false scare of a threat" and how that can use up a lot of resources. The example he gives is the genetically engineered virus. He then mentions that Toffler wrote about this as a potential future weapon, and then added some other things Toffler wrote about. (Judging by how closely he listed Toffler's items it's likely he'd read the book pretty recently before the conference.)

    Then he steps back from this and says, basically, that clever people are trying to figure out ways of inflicting terror, and the threat is real. Here he means the threat of biological terror is real. He does not mean everything Alvin Toffler listed is real. It's like he realized that he just listed a bunch of imaginary threats, thought that this was making it seems like all biological weapon threats were imaginary, and so qualified this by saying the general threat is real.

    Unfortunately, with the disconnected nature of live speaking, it's a bit tricky to summarize this in a single sentence. The conspiracy theorists like to take the last sentence of his first paragraph, and pair it with the last paragraph ("it's real"), as if that's what he's referring to. For someone who wants to believe, you are not going to convince them otherwise.

    Step 5 - Single Sentence Debunking

    Cohen was talking at a conference about the time and resources wasted by false or imaginary terrorist threats, and for examples he listed some speculative threats by Alvin Toffler, a futurist writer.
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  2. Ross Marsden

    Ross Marsden Senior Member

    Yes, this is a good one to put to rest. Thanks.

    Scott Stevens, "an award winning television weatherman", uses that quote in his masthead on his "Weather Wars" web site: http://weatherwars.info/
    That site looks partially abandoned; it seldom changes.

    I had an argument with a friend about this on FB. I told him Cohen was talking about false threats, to read the context, and not to be an idiot about misrepresenting things after ignoring the context.
    I think he has un-freinded me now - I don't see his updates any more. Some people. Crikey!
  3. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    selective assessment

    You chose to quote, but ignore important parts and bend the context for your own reasons, whatever they could be....I think this is the important bit:

    ''So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important''.

    This quote, in its context, is what is known as 'unequivocal'. Your ridiculous 'appraisal' is sorely lacking balance. Yet another astonishing display of bias. Add to that, the fact that the country wreaking most of the terror is the good ole USof A. Bernays, Goebbels and Orwell might be impressed; illusion, delusion and ignorance all wrapped up as 'reason'. Quite a feat that.
  4. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    But the bit you quote is something that everyone agrees on.

    The disagreement is in what the subject of that sentence is (geoengineering, or just creative terrorism in general). You need to read his entire answer to see it, and you also have to understand the context.

    And how did I ignore it? It's right there as the last sentence when I put the quote in context, and I quite explicitly discuss it.
  5. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    He said it. Context confirms it.

    re: "Your ridiculous 'appraisal' is sorely lacking balance."

    Hear, hear. So, he said it. The context only confirms it.

    A choir of angels could now proclaim "He was only joking - he never meant it - he was merely musing upon an old book!" And common sense tells us the angelic choir, in this case, would be wrong.

    Did anyone mention the Anti-Weather Modification Treaties that were big news in the '80s?

    Memory hole?
  6. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Since unregistered wants to see the context, here it is:

    Alvin Toffler was a "Futurist", a person whose writings discuss possible futures. Toffler's book, which Mick quoted, speaks of "imaginable(and imagined)" weapons.

    Plain enough? Or did you get confused by all the facts?

    With clever quoting out of context, I could possibly make it seem as if unregistered believed in choirs of angels......
  7. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    This is still getting a lot of mileage. There's a youtuber that thinks that events like earthquakes and the latest tornado outbreak are being caused by HAARP. He claims that HAARP weather manipulation is visible on weather radar. What he calls HAARP rings and "frequency" spikes are noise inherent to weather radar and the computer programs that analyze and display radar data for interpretation. In his latest series of videos, I and several others attempted to explain what he was actually seeing on the radar images and he responded repeatedly with that Cohen quote and then he blocked me. I guess he was afraid that my "nay-saying" would cut into his paypall donation stream from his subscribers.
  8. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    there's a hell of a lot more than 1 that believes in that!!
  9. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    Oh I know. I was referring to a guy that has become a ring leader of sorts. He's having a field day with the latest round of severe weather outbreaks. He has lots of subscribers and clones.
  10. muttkat

    muttkat Banned Banned

    There was an article called "Atmosphere Above Japan Heated Rapidly Before M9 Earthquake on this site: http://www.technologyreview.com/view/424033/atmosphere-above-japan-heated-rapidly-before-m9/
    before some earthquakes there is a phenomena in the sky that have been recorded sporadically over the last 100 years or so. Then all of a sudden it was recorded 5 years straight like 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005...something like that. Being the MIT site has to do with physics its not like it's a conspiracy site. It is a known fact that China, USSR, and the US has this technology.
  11. muttkat

    muttkat Banned Banned

    Ever read the book State of Fear by Michael Chrichton? Of course its a book of fiction but its interesting look at eco-terrorism in that perspective.
  12. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    But (providing it's not just a coincidence) it's the earthquakes causing the heating, not the heating that causes the earthquakes.

    Suggesting the opposite is like saying that you could make the sun shine brighter by burning your skin.
  13. muttkat

    muttkat Banned Banned

    One more......I expect Iran to get hit with a good earthquake if they have earthquakes there. It was said Japan was going to supply Iran with enriched uranium and that Japan was going to produce cars that ran on water...being I believe that we have a most evil govt and being the Al Gore zombies, the elite want to control the masses even more so with carbon taxes, etc, I don't put it past them to use this technology of the earthquake producing technology. Just sayin.
  14. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Earthquakes are essentially random. If an earthquake happens, then it's an easy exercise to say why the earthquake was in someone's interest. Especially if you just make up nonsense like Japan producing cars that run on water.

    But you could just as well stick a pin in the map. It's entirely meaningless.
  15. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    Blow off the water cars. Being HAARP is a military project and being our govt is what it is and being theres that phenomena has been seen in the sky 5 years in a row. Today I look on Wikipedia but now it mentions 1888, 1975, 2007, 2009, 2010. I've seen the China earthquake video with the aurora lights but thats not listed on wiki. There was an article about China arguing with Japan about drilling rights and China has the HAARP technology that was a possibility. For right now or forever whatever country has the HAARP technology and gets pissed off at another country they're not gonna come out and say we zapped the atmosphere above ( ) cause they pissed us off. One has to look at each earthquake to study why it happens when it does and when starts to happen at this greater frequency well why is it happening so frequent now? I'm waiting to see if Iran gets hit with a big earthquake but then if our military does the HAARP thing on Iran, they're not going to tell us. Just like the military didn't tell anyone about the drone that crashed over Iran and the only reason the world found out about it is because it crashed there.
  16. WELL SAID! Also, it's not like he's gonna come out and say, "WE'VE been working on these things for decades"! You mean to tell me, the largest Military Industrial Complex in the world, the one that is responsible for most of the wars THIS millenia is behind in THOSE technologies?? HAHAHAHAHAHA! Thanks for the laugh! This is such a gov't psyop page its a joke!
  17. muttkat

    muttkat Banned Banned

    Being its said that Cohens quote is taken out of context, couldn't it be doublespeak? It makes me think that the govt is stating yes we have it but its fictional & it seems the Army wrote yet another fictional paper pertaining to weather modification called: The fictional AF report states the Iona-sphere ,over the range radar....
    Weather As a Force Multiplier, Owning the Weather in 2025.

    Cohens quote was in 1997, Army Report Aug 1996, Congress Appropriated 10 million in 1996 for HAARP & HAARP was completed in 2007. On the official HAARP site it states Non Military Use. So if they're doing all this research why is there another 10 or so built (excluding Russia) around the world? Are there different types of Ionaspheres around the world?

    Iran has Accused somebody of messing with its rainclouds twice this summer: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b8b_1347442945

    Ben Livingston: Father of Weaponized Weather http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKl9rqw1Ykw

    Being the US used Cloud Seeding to mess with the Viet Cong, you don't think our military would do it again? Nah! They wouldn't do that.

    USAF linked to Electronic Attack in Tennessee: http://www.haarp.net/tennessee.htm

    A Weather Modification Company: http://www.weathermodification.com/projects.php
    UN Treaties Pertaining to Weather Warfare:
    1976 Weather Weapon Treaty: http://www.scribd.com/doc/3436120/UN-1976-Weather-Weapon-Treaty
    : http://www.fas.org/nuke/control/enmod/text/environ2.htm

    Inspection of US HAARP? NO! ........the European Parliament's Committee on Foreign Affairs, Security and Defense Policy held public hearings in Brussels on the HAARP program.(17) The Committee's "Motion for Resolution" submitted to the European Parliament: "Considers HAARP... by virtue of its far-reaching impact on the environment to be a global concern and calls for its legal, ecological and ethical implications to be examined by an international independent body...; [the Committee] regrets the repeated refusal of the United States Administration... to give evidence to the public hearing ...into the environmental and public risks [of] the HAARP program."
  18. muttkat

    muttkat Banned Banned

  19. muttkat

    muttkat Banned Banned

  20. muttkat

    muttkat Banned Banned

    I'm not real familiar with steam engines but wouldn't they be considered water powered except for the coal that has to be put in?
  21. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The US is banned from using weather modification as a weapon by international treaty. So, sure they MIGHT be doing it secretly, like they MIGHT be using chemical weapons (also banned), or biological weapons (banned) or all kinds of other secret illegal things.

    The point is that there's no evidence that they are doing any of these things. Talking about something is very different to doing it.
  22. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    No. If something is "powered" by a substance, then that thing has to supply power. The source of power is the coal. The water simply provides a convenient way of transforming that power (the energy of heat) into motion (the energy of motion), by the heat of the coal burning expanding the water.

    With gasoline, the energy is more directly converted into motion energy by the expansion of the burning gasoline into hot gas in a series of controlled explosions.

    For any vehicle, you can ask "what is the source of the energy". And that's what it "powers" it.
  23. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    Maybe there are just more people who want to research it than can get time on HAARP - other countries want to know more about the ionosphere - just like there is more than 1 university around the world, more than 1 research reactor, etc.

    Why should there be only 1 HAARP-like installation??

    Yeah - bit of a laugh given they run their own cloudseeding operations so are presumably "messing" with someone else's rainclouds!!

    Indeed - given that he Vietcong no longer exist, and the US has signed an international treaty SINCE THEN prohibiting use of weather in warfare I think youare probably right.....although I suspect you might think you are being cleverly sarcastic.....which is, of course, an oxymoron! :D

    Actually I think you caused it - now you aer linked to Electronic Attack in Tennesse - did you see what I did there?? see how easy it is to "create" links like that?

    Yep - coud seeding is well known, has been around for decades, and you can start a company to do it any time you want.

    So what?

    congratulations - you answered some of your own questions!

    And why should the US submit to an EU inspection? Y'all are pretty hot on sovereignty most of the time - why this exception?

    If the EU wants HAARP inspected they can go along on one of the open days held every year like everyone else!! Or they can build their own version to see what it can do...oh - they ALREADY ARE!!

    Here's the full text - I suggest a search for HAARP in the text.

    I se Nick Begich was a speaker at this hearing - personally that debunks it all that is required for me - idiot European politicians being led around by the nose by a fradulent huckster.
  24. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    Water in a steam engine is the "working fluid" - it is used to transfer energy from the souce (burning some fuel) to the machinery that turns it into work - the pistons or other mechanisms that drive the wheels.

    IIRC the working fluid in an internal combustion engine is Air - it is compressed by mechanical means then violently expanded through the ignition of an added fuel.
  25. muttkat

    muttkat Banned Banned

  26. solrey

    solrey Senior Member

    One of the reasons he's a huckster is his "doctorate" is fraudulent, coming from a diploma mill. Regardless of whatever lies he tells, he did not complete the rigorous studies required to earn an actual advanced degree like a PhD


    Actually, it would have been unusual if hurricane Erin had hit NYC, considering most hurricanes in the western Atlantic don't make landfall.


    As Erin was developing and heading straight for the Virgin Islands/Puerto Rico, it weakened and took a 90 degree turn to the north. Was it also manipulated at that point to take it on a path toward the Mid-Atlantic Coast? The farther north a hurricane gets the more likely it's going to get blown out to sea by the jet stream. Besides, the eye of Erin was actually on track to hit Portland Maine before it took a turn to the East.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  27. muttkat

    muttkat Banned Banned

    OK on Begich. When you state it would of been unusual if it was to hit NYC ...most don't make landfall during what time frame like in decades? I ask that because the hurricane paths seems have changed in the last decade. They don't seem to come into the Texas Gulf Coast like they use to unless it hits the Louisiana, Mississippi area & it seems more hurricanes have been hitting the East Coast more often lately. Didn't a hurricane hit real close to NYC in the last decade? It seems On that satellite animation it showed the outer squalls catch the edge of NY city & had read somewhere else the JFK airport had gotten some rain from it & 2 other NYC locations. One of the videos stated that some front had come through. Ok even if it wasn't to hit NYC shouldn't of there been some kind of storm advisories on the weather forecast? Here on the Tx gulf coast still mentions storm weather, even when its heading to Louisiana. I find it odd that too many weather forecasts doesn't mention the hurricane east of NY at all. The only thing I saw on one of the YT videos was "rough seas" on the weather map & the rest of the weather stations didn't mention it at all. I'm sure theres alot of shipping, pleasure boating venturing out from New York. I need to figure out if cold fronts can push a hurricanes direction that quickly. On the one video shows the winds going down twice. The other time is east of Florida which is a much smaller turn. Back to the drawing board.


  28. muttkat

    muttkat Banned Banned

  29. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I think you need a more precise question there. That looks like a thread on the Russian "Woodpecker" transmitter.

    Prison Planet in Info Wars in general seem to be aimed mostly at promoting fear and conspiracy theories, and then selling things like survival gear and gold to people.
  30. muttkat

    muttkat Banned Banned

    @ Every bodt: Congress appropriated the 30 million for HAARP in 1996 & the Air Force Owning the weather by 2025 states the report contains fictional representations of future situations/scenarios...views of the author & Cohens the Secretary of Defense off the cuff remark is pertaining to eco-terrorism....earthquakes. The fact that these 2 news stories came at such close proximity within basically the same group of people to me reminds of the phrase "hidden in plain site". Also the AF examples of South America's drug lords.....I know what region is getting hit next. Being some of the technology in this fictional report has come to light, the military isn't going to tell you we're working on an earthquake type mechanism to destroy those rogue nations that piss us off because these things are national security...classified issues & there are treaties you know but with the US & Israel won't adhere to some of them anyway. Radiotomography ( H technology) is used for oil exploration. Brooks Agnew a scientist........states it could cause earthquakes.

    @ MikeC I read that the HAARP installations sit on areas with rich resources around the world so of course there can't be just 1 HAARP. Antarctica is suppose to have a HAARP station. Can't verify that yet but if there is, I'm sure the state of Antarctica's citizens would like to know about the Ionasphere too. Theres suppose to be various HAARPS around the world & being the US runs them why are so many needed to study the ionaosphere? Radiotomography is used for oil exploration. Brooks Agnew a scientist........states it could cause earthquakes.

    @ Mick Could you be more precise on AJ promoting fear & conspiracy theories? If the mainstream media doesn't report it then its OK but if AJ does then its promoting fear then? AJ channel selling......Its called capitalism. Its suppose to be the American way.

    @ Mick Yes it talks about the Russian Woodpecker and ?????? Weather Modification. Do you think thats true that Russian US scientists are studying it & employing it?

    @Mick If its unusual for hurricanes to hit landfall & was gonna hit Maine are you talking about the eye? Why when were the Western squalls of Erin hitting the NYC area why was there a lack of "Storm Advisories" on the weather report?

    @MikeC In order to make rain you need a certain cloud to make rain & if that type of cloud isn't around & maybe the US isn't letting the 1st cloud around to make the rain from it. I only say that because Iran on the "Bad Boy" list right now. lol

    @mikeC Yes there are treaties about weather weapons but that doesn't mean they're followed. Being the fictional 1996 AF report is talking about owning the weather by 2025......well never mind its fictional.

    MikeC Yes I'm pretty hot about sovereignty but the UN's already has its Sustainable Development Agenda 21 up our ....which states people shouldn't own private property because its an unjustice & owning PP signifies wealth. Being the UN's SD garbage is implemented down to the local level then the EU shouldn't have to wait on visitation day. Thats probably cause the HAARP people gotta hide the earthquake stuff. shhhhh!

    Since 1980 weather catastrophies have tripled. The PTB cite climate change is causing this. Earthquakes and volcanos have been consistant but floods and storm up, up and away. Being we've had warmer temperatures before except in those times it took 1000's, millions of years to happen now its just happened in a matter of decades. I think you people are gullible and aren't connecting the dots as to the military playing GOD and testing its citizens. I think they're testing their program with droughts,floods & ...wildfires on the American people. I'm still researching that.
  31. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I think it's quite clear. On his site all the stories are about how the elite are about to take over the world and kill billions of people. Then he sells survivalist stuff. It's a conflict of interest.

    And that without even identifying the vast amount of nonsense he spits out, like FEMA coffins, and chemtrails.
  32. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    I heard Alex Jones saying they were taking over the world in 1999. He was saying the same in 2009, and he will be saying the same in 2019 if you people keep buying the stuff he advertises. He sells fear. His customers are his advertisers but also his listeners who get the same sort of thrill some folks get from watching zombie takeover movies. That thrill is addictive. Hope you understand some day Muttkat. When that day comes it will most likely be when you see AJ gets something terribly wrong which you know for a fact is wrong and your whole faith in him will come crashing down like a domino tower. Hope it happens soon for you cause it sounds like you got it bad.

    See, the dots can connect quite a different way if you look at them right. Don't choose fear or putting your trust in someone who has been wrong for over ten years. AJ is one of those, connect those dots and get out of it. There is much more to do in life than follow a man like that who has told people so much destructive stuff.

    • Like Like x 1
  33. Belfrey

    Belfrey Senior Member

    Erin never approached close enough to the US coast to significantly affect weather, but the National Hurricane Center did issue a warning about high waves and rough seas.

    Hurricane Erin Weakens, But Still Strong Storm 9/10/01
    Weakening Hurricane Erin Spawns Strong Waves on East Coast 9/11/01
  34. Trigger Hippie

    Trigger Hippie Senior Member

    I've never heard this before. Where exactly does Agenda 21 state that people shouldn't own private property? Can direct me to the section... chapter... page number? Thanks.

    Here's the link to the actual document http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/index.shtml
    • Winner Winner x 1
  35. Belfrey

    Belfrey Senior Member

    Muttkatt has told me on YouTube that it doesn't have to be in the document in order to be an "Agenda 21" goal. He claims that any program or policy, anywhere, that uses the phrase "sustainable development" is automatically Agenda 21.

    Didn't realize that you were already here, MuttKatt! This is a much better place for you to present support for your arguments than YouTube comments. Also, you can check out the threads on artificialclouds.com and Brooks Agnew that I mentioned.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  36. Trigger Hippie

    Trigger Hippie Senior Member

    I see. :rolleyes:

    So Muttcat believes that documents published by students are official policy, official policy documents like treaties are not binding, and non-binding plans like Agenda 21 enforce points not actually made in the document.
  37. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    where did yu read that? And how come there aren't a million HAARPS if it is the case? Aer they going to build "HAARPS" over subsea mineral resources too??:rolleyes:

    there are no citizens of antarctica - it is not a country.

    but the poles are regions of unique high altitude physics because of the shape of het earths magnetic fields, so it makes some sense that you would weant to study there.

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  38. muttkat

    muttkat Banned Banned

    Let me start the list: Why shouldn't there be a million HAARPS? Why should there be when you've radiotomography?

    Antarctica? Duh. Sorry about that, I was being sarcastic.

    Violating treaties? Who doesn't? Specific ones broken, I'll have to get back on that one but the Bil of Rights & the Constitution have been slightly violated.

    Weather disasters tripled:http://english.pravda.ru/science/earth/25-05-2011/118008-Number_of_weather_disasters_has_tripled-0/

    Documents by students? They probably wrote articles about putting a man on the moon,sending a rocket into orbit, sending the 1st men into space,...The AF report also stated in its fictional report about over the horizon radar, & thats come out. Earthquakes? They've been working hard at that & probably have perfected it. Being all the earthquake lights have been poping up with alot more frequency. Alaskan newspapers have been reporting about the lights & its not the Northern lights. Gotta find that article again. About HAARPS studying the Ionosphere, I guess the military took interest in Eastlunds patents because they wanted to study why it exists.

    Alex Jones...UN taking over the world:
    Heres Panetta stating the US answers to NATO:http://www.prisonplanet.com/coup-detat-pentagon-obama-declare-congress-ceremonial.html Isn't this a little worse than a treaty? Like treason?

    "NAFTA is the most creative step towards a NWO."---My bud henry kissinger
    "We've got to create a World Order all of us would like to see."
    The UN taking over the US:
    Belfrey this ones fer you and give these guys all the UN Buzzwords, I have given you. Make yourself useful for once.
    Executive Order 13547. http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...-stewardship-ocean-our-coasts-and-great-lakes
    Then theres our not no more National Parks and I'm taking a break & not done. This is being done gradually.

    Peeking drones, AJ been stating that & some sheriff wants that now, up to 30,000 drones. You wouldn't believe how much crap I've got over the drones over America & guess what we got for Valentines Day?
    Drones Guess what people have been watched by drones before Jan 1st? ranchers & farmers in Nebraska & Iowa.

    On his videos around the year 1999, 2000 most of that has become true. Police state, rights violated..
    I can't get sheriff peek to paste here for some reason. Look it up. AF students probably wrote a paper on drones...too.

    Indefinite detention of Americans w/o trial, you can be kidnapped, no communication with attorney, family, family not allowed to disclose that you're being held. happy New Year...NDAA
    The govt can take your land, crops, seed & probably your future grandchildren too. EO:
    Excuse him & me if not everything comes to pass. Theres still the future.
    I'm taking a break.
  39. Trigger Hippie

    Trigger Hippie Senior Member


    Care to explain this last comment?
  40. Belfrey

    Belfrey Senior Member

    What in that Executive Order do you think is bad, exactly? What does "Then theres our not no more National Parks" mean?