1. cmnit

    cmnit Member

    An Italian journalist covering URSS and later Russia, Giulietto Chiesa, during a recent conference of him (sorry I could not trace date and place yet) stated that "... io vado spesso a Mosca ... sapete, in Russia le scie chimiche non ci sono" ("I visit Moscow frequently ... you known, in Russia there are no chemtrails"), just at the end of this short video):



    Let me add for your knowledge that Chiesa is well known in Italy for his positive stance supporting many CTs such as 9/11, up to and including chemtrails aka "covered geoengineering". Interestingly, quite contrary to what is typical in the States, he and some other chemtrailists fringes are politically left wing (to the extreme).

    But here I would like your help in order to debunk his specific statement, which I guess is totally absurd. I would like to document the common presence of contrails over Russian skies. Please post here any link, photo, or otherwise. Maybe a quick search through satellite imagery would reveal easily the longer, persistent contrails. Or maybe some tourist photos on Flickr, or many other possible sources. Thanks in advance!
     
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  3. Efftup

    Efftup Senior Member

  4. Efftup

    Efftup Senior Member

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  5. cloudspotter

    cloudspotter Senior Member

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  6. Gundersen

    Gundersen Active Member

  7. Gundersen

    Gundersen Active Member

  8. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Senior Member

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  9. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Senior Member

  10. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

  11. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    the statement you put in quotes?

    whats to debunk? there are no chemtrails anywhere, so of course there are none in Russia
     
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  12. Trailspotter

    Trailspotter Senior Member

    I grew up in Russia and remember seeing long white lines in the sky since my childhood. In the past two years I visited Russia a few times and saw quite a few again. I may have some pictures but need to dig them up.

    Anyway, "chemtrails" in Russian are known as "Химиотрассы" and there are plenty of "chemtrail" sites. Here is one on a Russian social network "VKontakte": http://vk.com/chemtrails. They have a number of photo albums with pictures of persistent contrails taken all over Russia and former Soviet Union, e.g.:
    http://vk.com/album-26812854_134134739
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2014
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  13. Gundersen

    Gundersen Active Member

    True! But I think what is asked is to prove that persistent contrails are present in Russia.
     
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  14. Efftup

    Efftup Senior Member

    I agree. The person in the video might say chemtrails but the OP specifically said document the existence of persistent contrails
     
  15. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    how does documenting contrails in Russia debunk Chiesa's statement?
     
  16. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    Showing contrails in Russia disproves there are no chemtrails in Russia because according to the theory they are one and the same. The core belief is that a persistent contrail is a chemtrail.
    It doesn't debunk his statement *if* he has a different definition for chemtrails than that one, but it's assumed that's his definition as it's the majority one.
     
  17. Gundersen

    Gundersen Active Member

    When he say that "chemtrails" do not exist in Russia, he is probably referring to what in reality is persistent contrails. If persistent contrails only exist in certain parts of the world, it could be argued that they cannot possibly be caused by normal jet exhaust and the right weather conditions, since these causes should be found everywhere where jets fly and the weather allows it. This could be a big piece of evidence on behalf of the believers. Therefor, to debunk this statement, it is another piece of their puzzle we take away.
     
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  18. Efftup

    Efftup Senior Member

    I would need someone to translate the whole thing to know EVERYTHING he said.
    Yes that statement is not bunk, There is no proof of chemtrails in Russia (or anywhere else)
    (edited for Hama Neggs, thanks for clarification)

    BUT.... I think the inference is that he is claiming there are no (persistent contrails) there, unlike anywhere else in the world which therefore shows that the Russians are either innocent parties, OR they are the ones chemtrailing everyone else. or something.

    Documenting the contrails in Russia shows that they are there, and therefore the inference drawn from the
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2014
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  19. cmnit

    cmnit Member

    I can do that later, but in essence he is saying something along the lines of "geoengineering is a reality, I know for sure for a long time now ... when I had an office in Brussels [he used to be a European MP a long time ago] I could see from the top of the building great clear skies ... this is because they have NATO HQ there, you know ... and by the way, contrary to others, I visit frequently Russia etc. etc."
     
  20. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

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  21. cmnit

    cmnit Member

    To clarify: I find very useful any documentation about persistent contrails in Russia since chemtrailists (including Chiesa) simply take these as chemtrails.

    On the other hand I find it very funny that chemtrailists somewhere else such as David Icke in the US bring as proof of global spraying photos of contrails in Russia, as you showed above! :)
     
  22. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

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  23. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Senior Member

    Contrails over Persepolis, in Iran?

    [​IMG]

    https://www.metabunk.org/data/MetaMirrorCache/aab7976e95c793034d2718b140e9a174.jpg

    Contrails from Varadero beach, Cuba:

    [​IMG]

    https://ssl.panoramio.com/photo/76889066

    As for North Korea, I can't imagine it has many overflights?
     
  24. Trailspotter

    Trailspotter Senior Member

    Last edited: Nov 6, 2014
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  25. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I've changed the title to "Debunked: No persistent contrails in Russia", to avoid the implication that chemtrails are a real thing.
     
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  26. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    Unfortunately, that isn't true. There are lots of chemical trails, even some behind aircraft. It's just that the trails we commonly see in the sky have never been shown to be anything other than normal contrails, including in Russia, where they clearly exist. Don't put yourself in the position of claiming to have proved a negative.
     
  27. Efftup

    Efftup Senior Member

    well everything is a chemical so correct on that one.
    I have edited the post so as not to be misleading.
     
  28. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    So the claim is also that Brussels gets no chemtrails (persistent contrails)?
    Lot's of great photos here (even has shots of the ISS) all taken near the Brussels airport
    http://www.skystef.be/contrail-special.htm


    [​IMG]

    10/10/12 - 12:31 - UL607 - telelens. easyJet Airline A320 G-EZWD at 33000 ft enroute London (LGW) - Antalya as EZY8839.



    [​IMG]

    20/01/09 - 14:25 - UL607/8 - telelens. British Airways B747-436 G-CIVH at 34000 ft enroute London (LHR) - Dubai + UL608 Ryanair B737-800 EI-DCW at 36000 ft enroute Rimini-Stansted as RYR8009
     
  29. Trailspotter

    Trailspotter Senior Member

    Frosty Siberian morning (photo taken yesterday, November 5, 2014)
    [​IMG]
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/constantiner/15713576061/

    I've checked on FR24, this place near Tomsk is on a busy route from Europe to China. There are also Russian internal transsiberian flights crossing this route here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2014
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  30. Peter

    Peter Member

    I remember posting those pictures on the thread with the same theme on the David Icke forum. Later on I posted a sort of closing remark asking 'Well it seems Russia isn't exempt from contrails/chemtrails. Russia also gets them, albeit not as many, due to there being less traffic. Can we all agree on that?'.

    And that post got deleted by a mod. I guess it was too firm of an answer to the question being asked in the thread, and it was probably seen as a threat to the chemtrail theory proposed in the thread.

    http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=256880
     
  31. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Senior Member

    I see. Chemtrails are a fait accompli in David Icke world. Figures!
     
  32. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    Actually, I was thinking of things like crop-dusting and cloud-seeding, etc. They ARE chemical trials(and not H2O) behind planes.
     
  33. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    That seems to be true with ALL of the remaining "true believers". They ALL think and claim it's proved beyond any doubt. That means that ANY questioning of the basic premise is seen as "out of bounds".
     
  34. SR1419

    SR1419 Senior Member

    Its seems that our buddy Harold Saive disagrees with Guiletto :)

     
  35. cmnit

    cmnit Member

    Here the complete transcript in Italian:

    … che ci siano le scie chimiche, io le ho viste a più riprese in diverse capitali europee …
    siccome al parlamento europeo avevo l'ufficio ai piani alti, c'erano delle mattine dove si vedeva uno spettacolo fantastico, ma lì c'è la NATO … si spiega particolarmente, li ci sono i centri della NATO …
    [small break in the recording]
    … sistematicamente dare tutte le informazioni, costituire attorno al gruppo di Pandora (?), se lo chiamiamo così, un gruppo di ricerca permanente, per arrivare poi a un'iniziativa.
    Certo se io avessi un gruppo di parlamentari farei fare una iniziativa parlamentare, chiamerei la Magistratura, farei un esposto alla Magistratura, alla Procura, ci vogliono gli elementi, bisogna costruire un percorso.
    Quindi questo è un tema che esiste, un tema drammatico perchè secondo me sulla nostra testa stanno giocando degli irresponsabili, anche questi son scimmie, perchè se io … sulle scie … sul fatto che le scie chimiche ci siano non ho dubbi … tra l'altro io, a differenza di molti, vado spesso a Mosca.
    Sapete che in Russia, le scie chimiche non ci sono. Non ci sono, mai vista una scia chimica …
    I attempt an approximate translation in English:

    … that the chemtrails exist, I saw them myself many times in several European capitals …
    since at the European Parliament I used to have my office at an high floor, some mornings you could see a wonderful show, but there, there is NATO … you can explain specifically, there are the NATO HQs …
    [small break in the recording]
    … systematically give all the information, build up around Pandora group (?), if we can call it like this, a permanent research group, to arrive at an action.
    Sure, if I had a group of MPs I would call for a parliamentary action, I would call the Magistracy, I would submit a petition to public prosecution, to Public Prosecutor's Office, you need proofs, you need to build a path.
    Therefore, this is an issue which exists, a dramatic one since in my opinion on our heads some irresponsible people are playing, but those people are monkeys, because if I … about chemtrails … on the fact that chemtrails exist I have no doubts … by the way, contrary to many others, I go to Moscow quite often.
    Do you know that in Russia there are no chemtrails? There aren't, never seen a chemtrail …
     
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  36. cmnit

    cmnit Member

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  37. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    Oh dear.....AGAIN with a normal B747 making NORMAL contrails, yet "somehow" they are called "chem"trails???

    It just boggles the mind.....
     
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  38. sirtwentythree

    sirtwentythree New Member

    This article is saying that Russia tells it's people that do in fact "seed" clouds on national holidays to drive the rain away.

    "The Russian government has used rain prevention methods since Soviet times, seeding clouds for major celebrations three times a year - Victory Day, City Day and, more recently, Russia Day.

    There are also private companies that for some $6,000 per hour say they can guarantee sunshine on your wedding day - or for any other private party."


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8587725.stm
     
  39. Ross Marsden

    Ross Marsden Senior Member

    Yes, and weather modification by cloud seeding techniques has nothing in common with condensation trails.
    Different aircraft.
    Different materials.
    Different micro-physics.
    Different intention.
    Different results.

    By the way, the wedding organiser's weather modification offer was for the publicity such a claim would attract. See how well it's working.
     
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  40. sirtwentythree

    sirtwentythree New Member

    What is the intention of a contrail?
     
  41. Spectrar Ghost

    Spectrar Ghost Senior Member

    Contrails occur naturally, they don't have an intent.
     
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