1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    A hurricane heading straight for New York? It's just weather, but some people will see that this is obviously a conspiracy. But what exactly is the conspiracy? Well, we'll have to wait and see what happens to find out. The mainstream options are:

    A) Nothing happens, just a bit of rain
    Here conspiracy is the media coverage. It's obviously sensationalized to either keep people in a state of fear, or to distract them from something else. Clearly the Elite made the storm flare up, then steered it away, just to keep people from seeing from what is really happening.

    B) Severe flooding, but New York City escapes the worst
    Here the the Elite clearly steered the storm away from their favorite city, demonstrating their power over nature.

    C) Direct hit on New York
    The Elite were punishing someone with a financial interest in New York, and had steered the storm straight to it.

    D) Massive rain and flooding keeps election voter turnout low
    The Elite made this storm do this to directly affect the outcome of the election.

    So no matter what happens, you are guaranteed to get a conspiracy out of it. It's the perfect storm of conspiracy opportunities.

    And those are just the mainstream conspiracies, veering slightly more extreme we have Prison Planet suggesting that the massive devastation would drive people into FEMA prison camps, presumably paving the way for martial law and depopulation. And then you have the Facebook Fringe suggesting it's caused by HAARP (a radio transmitter which has a small effect on the ionosphere, and zero on actual weather)

    Then on YouTube you've got bizarre theories like this one claiming "infrasound" is being used to steer the storm.

    Of course HAARP cannot affect the weather. Have a look at the official HAARP FAQ:
    And HAARP is nowhere near the Hurricane, it's in Alaska, and pretty tiny in the global scheme of things:

    Conspiracies regarding steering hurricanes have a quite a history (including one where the Japanese Mafia caused Katrina), and in part it's backed by a little science. There has been some research into steering or otherwise mitigating hurricanes, and even some experiments. Here's one such theory - dropping soot on the hurricane to slow it down.



    The science dates back to the 1950's with the National Hurricane Research Project and some actual experiments in Project Stormfury. One of the first experiments was Hurricane Ester in 1961, a storm that looked like it was heading from New York, but then turned away. However the actual modification was done a few days earlier, dropping silver iodide on the storm, which maybe weakened it a bit, they could not really tell. More recent research seems to indicate that ALL of the results of Project Stormfury were most likely just natural random variations in hurricane motion.

    There are several other proposals, but as the NOAA points out, they are very unlikely to do anything for a large storm

    Of course the problem here (from the conspiracy point of view, and even assuming that this theory works) is how you'd do such a thing in secret, and do it with any accuracy. This storm is massive, and would requie a massive effort to affect it in any way. Plus remember this is a THEORY, what if you actually made things worse? (or better, if you were actually trying to make it worse?).

    So if HAARP or planes full of soot did not steer Sandy, then what did? Well, the problem with many visual representations of the path of a hurricane is that they present it like it's a ball rolling randomly around on an empty tabletop. As if the storm itself is dictating its own motion with no rhyme or reason.

    But what dictates the motion of a storm is actually the surrounding air masses. Technically the steering winds. In the case of Sandy this was a combination of a high and low pressure pair over the north Atlantic, and the Jet Stream. To understand why Sandy moved as it did, you've got to look at a picture of the things that actually made it move.



    This was all well understood far in advance. It was not at all surprising just bad luck. The thing is, this storm is doing pretty much exactly what the forecasts predicted days before it hit New York. Here's ALL the forecasts for the storms path from Oct 26th, two days before the turn inland was made.


    And here's one such forecast in detail, predicting the Oct 29th state from back in Oct 25th. Note here, unlike most simplified diagrams, you can see the actual surrounding wind systems that control the motion of the storm.

    While Sandy was big, it's just a part of a much larger system, so looking at the storm by itself and exclaiming "why did it turn left by itself" is rather silly, missing the big picture (the picture above). There's nothing unexpected here. There's no evidence it was manipulated. It was just a really bad storm.
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
    • Like Like x 1
  2. jvnk08

    jvnk08 Active Member

    Well said Mick. I think this same sort of thing could apply to any sort of foreseen major event. We should make simple graphics that show the possible outcomes and the likely conspiracies that will arise out of each.
  3. Met Watch

    Met Watch Moderator

    Nice pun. And for jvnk08, I've made a map of all three scenarios that Mick suggested. If anyone else has any other theories, I can map them. For comparison, I've provided the NHC forecast. It's HTML, so it will update automatically.


  4. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    The conspirasphere is already claiming that the storm is being manipulated by HAARP, NEXRAD, Chemtrails/Chembombs, etc... Today I saw contrail cirrus, natural cirrus, altocumulus, altocumulus undulatus, and even a couple of hole punch formations in the altocumulus deck here on the perifery of the storm. There will undoubtedly be youtube vids from the usual suspects like Harold Saive claiming that all of those cloud formations are unnatural weather manipulation.




    I'm done. I'm turning of the computer and going surfing. These people are a total waste of time.
  5. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Now it looks like it's going to hit the entire area equally, and stay for days. so clearly it's:

    D) Rain and flooding keeps turnout low
    The Elite made this storm do this to directly affect the outcome of the election.
  6. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    Wow! Mick . . . didn't think you had it in you . . . what if lower voter turnout in the traditionally high Democrat districts of the Northeast results in a Republican victory???
  7. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Then it was clearly a conspiracy, there's no other explanation.
  8. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

  9. oroboros

    oroboros New Member

    Hey Google led me back here after finding this. Which one of you has the put options on NYC drowning like a river rat, fess up now!


    A couple people immediately responded "bullshit" and the page admin deleted their comments.
  10. jham

    jham New Member Banned

    In this video http://aircrap.org/weatherman-scott-stevens-2012-1026-hurricane-sandy-day-1/335750/ weatherman Scott Stevens provides accurate commentary on how both chemtrails and HAARP have been used to intensify and steer Hurricane Sandy. Chemtrails off the British Columbia Coast were used to create a weather system that was moved via HAARP across the continent to collide with and intensify the hurricane.

    HAARP output in the NYC area is the highest its ever been in the history of the Project right now http://beforeitsnews.com/alternativ...utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=beforeitsnews

    Here is a list of chemtrail and weather modification patents: http://inquiringminds.cc/list-of-chemtrail-and-weather-modification-patents

    This documentary film "Why in the World Are They Spraying?" contains interviews with a lot of credible people about chemtrails and weather control: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEfJO0-cTis

    The Department of Defense published a white paper in 1996 titled "Weather as a Force Multiplier- Owning the Weather by 2025"

    Who are the enemy? Answer: All of us. This is about population control. The drought in the midwest has been caused by chemtrails and HAARP. The purpose was to drive a lot of small farmers off their land which has been bought up by giant agribusinesses and planted with Monsanto's genetically engineered seed that will germinate despite aluminum being sprayed via chemtrails causing a rise in alkalinity of the soil that prevents heirloom seeds from germinating. See Monsanto's patent here: http://farmwars.info/?p=7760

    What is the goal of intensifying and steering this hurricane into NYC on Halloween just before the election? Hard to say for sure right now, but we'll see as this continues to unfold. Suffice it to say that it is not "conspiracy theory" that chemtrails and weather modification caused by a comb of chemtrails and HAARP is going on. The evidence is irrefutable. Ordo Ab Chao is the motto of the Illuminati. (Order out of Chaos). Could they use this hurricane to A) Trigger Martial Law thus preempting the election, or B) Hold down voter turnout for some sector of the electorate they're hoping to steer away from the polls? I'd say either is a possability. The Bilderberg Group control both horses in the so called "race." They can insert either one they want and have multiple tools to bring about whatever their decision for us is, and that includes using Weather as a Weapon. We do know that a move is afoot to collapse the dollar in order to force us into the CFR's long planned North American Union collectivist dictatorship with Canada and Mexico. We do know that Canada has been harmonizing its laws with the EU via the CETA trade agreement. I forced the US FDA to give me their internal documents via the Freedom of Information Act on a scam they have called the Trilateral Cooperation Charter. I have hard evidence that the FDA has created the framework to harmonize the food and drug laws between Canada the US and Mexico with zero input from the citizens of the 3 countries, and I was blocked from getting congressional oversight on this scam due to numerous members of the Oversight & Investigations Subcommittee of the House Commerce Committee being bought off via pharmaceutical PAC donations.

    So, what do I think of Hurricane Sandy? Its clear to me that it has indeed been intensified and steered via HAARP and Chemtrails, the evidence for this is there, we just won't know what the reason was for until more things play out.
    We do know that the US Army has Want Ads on the web to hire the soldiers who will be guards in the concentration camps which they call "interment camps" (just like what they were called the last time we had them on US soil when President Roosevelt forced people living on the west coast of Japanese descent into them. Here you can see the Army want ad for the concentration camp guards:http://theintelhub.com/2012/05/11/m...cialist-concentration-camp-guards-in-the-usa/

    Does any of this prove that Hurricane Sandy was created with the intention of triggering martial law? No, but is it a possabilty? Yes! It is also a possability that the hurricane could be intended to influence the election in some way, but we'll have to see what happens and judge that later.
  11. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    Is it any wonder conspiracy theories abound? Is there not good reason to doubt the motives of TPTB? It is almost as if TPTB promote conspiracy theories.

    Can someone suggest a 'legitimate' reason for preparing these camps? When I say legitimate, I mean a reason that would be deemed a genuine reason which would likely attract the support of the majority of the electorate, at this time and in these circumstances.

    Much is said here, (on this site), about chemtrails but very little is said here about the high levels of chemicals found on the ground which are supposed to originate from the chemtrails. Particularly, aluminium and barium. Are these assertions contradicted by anyone
  12. Trigger Hippie

    Trigger Hippie Senior Member

    Oh dear...
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    You can see the actual ad here:

    Internment camps are just things that are needed when the Army goes to war overseas - like when they invade a country. There's nothing there to suggest they would set up camps in the US.

    You might want to try a search, there is a LOT being said about that here.

  14. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I've updated the top post to give a bit better debunking, as it's getting a lot of Google traffic.
  15. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

  16. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

  17. jvnk08

    jvnk08 Active Member

    Was very skeptical of where HAARPStatus is getting their data from, glad to see you guys shared that skepticism... I'd love to see one of their "sensors".
  18. Belfrey

    Belfrey Senior Member

    I'm not sure if this has already been covered, but Harold Saive has written an article posted on The Intellihub and the other usual sources: Hurricane Sandy Under Aerosol Geoengineering by DHS to Modify Intensity and Land-fall. The part that's new (as far as I know) is that he's claiming this is part of the Hurricane-Aerosol-Microphysics Program (HAMP) (bolds from original):

    HAMP was a real program, and it really was about hurricane modification using aerosol injection. However, in its brief existence it never actually tried to modify any hurricanes. The researchers looked into the physics involved, did simulations using models, and studied the effects of normal aerosols on normal hurricanes, to evaluate the plausibility of using aerosol injections to reduce storm strength.

    I think that part of Harold's confusion comes from the term "aerosols", which some people think means "something that is sprayed". Of course, in the context of atmospheric science it means "suspended airborne particles", which are always in the atmosphere from both natural sources and human pollution. So, I suspect that Harold saw that they were studying the real-world effects of aerosols on actual storms, and incorrectly thought that it meant they were spraying stuff.

    Here is a report from the real HAMP program: The Rise and Fall of HAMP.
  19. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Harold hasn't gotten a very big audience for this.
  20. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    Someone called in to a NPR talk show yesterday and mentioned "weather modification" being visible on radar and suggested that the listeners that are interested in that check out Dutchsinse and "the resonation group". Jim Lee of "Climateviewer.com" aka r3zn8d on youtube posted a clip from the NPR show.


    The clip mentioned a DC flash and a North Carolina flash.


    The NC "flash" was simply the radar being in clear air mode for one scan after having been offline for 4 hours. You can see the time stamps in the video that there is a four hour skip and when it skips it shows really intense returns for a single frame. The radar cycled through clear air mode, which is more sensitive and therefore shows brighter returns, when it was rebooted and brought back online. The video also incorrectly predicted that the flash should steer the storm into NC.
  21. Cal

    Cal Guest

    Great Post! I'm not sure this part is entirely accurate though. Do you have a good source on this?

    My understanding of the uses of haarp, and one of the reasons it was developed, is that it can create a spot in the ionosphere that will reflect radio waves. This way you can communicate with a sub that is well beyond the horizon by bouncing radio waves off the ionosphere. This wouldn't be very feasible if the hot spot could only be above Alaska. I hope you are right though as this would be a great rebuttal to the haarp weather machine meme.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  22. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member


  23. joe citizen

    joe citizen Guest

    Frankenstorm Sandy

    Weather Weapons Used
    to Attack US East Coast!

    The US Government is responsible for purposely enhancing and manipulating the destructive power of Hurricane Sandy. Weather Weaponization programs have received Billions of dollars of funding in the past decades. The Corporate News media fails to report on such Black Ops projects. There is an abundance of information on the internet available for HAARP and Hurricane Aerosol and Microphysics Program (HAMP) geoengineering and steering of storms. This was NOT all Mother Nature, Big Brother had a hand in this!

    Below are some links to the scientific background and recent evidence of how Sandy was “manufactured” into the Halloween Frankenstorm that has pulverized the Northeastern United States coast.

    MUST SEE links to learn what your tax dollars are paying for.






    The same Military Industrial Complex who brought us False Flag 911 attack, the “never to be found Weapons of Mass Destruction Iraq War”, the 2008 Financial Crash and the coming Fiscal Cliff Depression of 2013 are once again attacking its own citizens to bring this nation to its knees.

    The ultimate goal is to create a New World Order, Global Government intended to make us, and our children, slaves to the 1% Global Bankers.

    It is nothing short of Treason by the Democrat / Republican political machine that is seeking to be legitimized once again through our “votes” in the up coming election.

    The Age of Representative Government is as dead as the Age of Kings.
    The time has come to throw out all of these 2 Party Bums and form of new governmental system based on Direct Democracy over the Internet where we vote for our own interests. Recent history proves that it is far to easy to buy, bribe and corrupt a few thousand politicians to sell out the public interest and well being.

    It is your responsibility as citizens to research and face up to the tragic truth that our government is declaring war on its people.

    Don’t take my word for it.
    Search the web for your own information:

    HAARP, HAMP, Chemtrails, Geoengineering Aerosol Spraying, Project Stormfury

    Weather Modification Experts: Ben Livingston, Dr Nick Begich, Bob Fletcher, Governor Jesse Ventura

    Check out for yourself how Hurricane Sandy was purposefully manipulated and manufactured to attack your homes, families and communities. This is neither a call to revolution or anarchy, but a call to the next logical evolution of democracy and rule of law with minority opinion rights.

    Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson would approve this message.
  24. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    Thanks Joe. Certainly doesn't leave much to the imagination does it?

    Will be interesting to see Mick attempt to 'debunk' those links!

    The problem still exists how to stop it. Too many people seem to either be in denial, uninterested or complacent.
  25. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I believe everything there has already been debunked. But if you can find one thing that has not, then bring it up.

    (and that's one bit of evidence, not a video with thousands).

    Name ONE piece of supposed evidence that has not been debunked.
  26. rezn8d

    rezn8d Jim Lee

    not so fast....

    Get to work boys:

    Geoengineering Frankenstorm: Hurricane Sandy and the Air Force Weather Weapon System:


  27. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Really? X-Band radar pushed Sandy inland? Do you actually think that's in any way a plausible suggestion?

    Compare with:
    The turn inland was known days in advance, based on the steering winds. No push was needed.
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  28. rezn8d

    rezn8d Jim Lee

    I agree, that it is far fetched to include the SBX, even highly unlikely, however the rest is completely plausible. Further we do not know what is aboard the x37b, Directed energy? HPM? Laser? Any way you spin it, they want to modify and control hurricanes, and they will, using any tech available. The SBX radar may have been used to verify other tests going on, or may not have even been there.

    additionally, i know the track was well understood and more than likely normal, did the same thing as the 1938 monster...
  29. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Sure people WANT to control the weather, and want to control hurricanes. That would be great! We also want to fly to the stars, have free energy, and cure cancer.

    Desire is not evidence of action. I don't see where in your posts you show evidence that the storm was actually steered (and forgive me if I missed it, it's a long post).
  30. FreiZeitGeist

    FreiZeitGeist Senior Member

    Actually, there is no X-37b in space. Mission #2 ended June 2012, Mission #3 is delayed and should start on Nov 27th.

    There are thousends of Amateur-astronomes who try to spot the vehicle after starting and to track its orbit. It takes 2-3 days for them to get the data and if they done so, you can watch its position on Sites like http://www.n2yo.com or calsky.com.

    Some Amateurs also takes pictores of it:


    The x-37b gets its power for operating from a smal solar panel. I dont think that this panel generates enogh power to influance a Hurricane with lasers, beams etc. and it´s payload-bay is just about 2x1 meters.

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
    • Like Like x 3
  31. Jazzy

    Jazzy Closed Account

    I always assumed that hurricanes swung towards land because they extract a greater amount of the surface heat energy of the sea (from warm coastal water especially), and the pressure imbalance from the differential expansion of the two sides of the hurricane forced it to swing inland and quickly depart the coast, with its energy supply rapidly declining. Bit like a curve-ball...

    So really there may be two forces at work here. But I'm no expert... we had a doozy in Blighty I think it was '87. (False teeth fall out...)

    (... teeth back in) The energies and effort involved in modifying such events are not within the normal scope of Man. Furthermore, if they were, they would be merely pushing the problem into someone else's backyard.

    Teeth have to be gritted, and it has to be acknowledged that we, I mean we as the whole human species, must lower the energy imbalance of the Earth by reducing the amount of CO2 in its atmosphere if we wish to reduce the heat energy latent in its atmosphere and oceans - Hansen's argument.

    This "conspiracy" is so trivial compared... ...talk about "eyes off the ball"!

    Ah, no criticism implied, by the way...
  32. If Hitler were alive today, people would be saying that he was invading neighboring countries, arresting and imprisoning people because it's a day that ends in 'y', he was giving drugs and other nasty substances to people and flat out killing people.

    But Mick, sharp guy that he is, he can read websites, so he'd go check out the Official Hitler Website and there he'd read that Hitler was not doing any of these bad, nasty things to people. Instead he was nation-building and stimulating the country's economy and re-educating people and using cutting edge medicine on people, etc. etc.

    So, yep, today, the people (use that term loosely) behind HAARP, if they are manipulating weather, amongst others things, you can bet they'd just fess up about it on their official website. "Yes citizens, we are using HAARP and clouding seeding, etc. to manipulate weather so we can slam hurricanes and other intense weather systems into highly populated areas. Now, some of you may say that we are trying to intentionally kill and harm and break people, but what we are really doing is reducing overpopulation and increasing order and bringing people together through shared experiences."
  33. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Well, besides point out the "official" explanation, I also not that it seems to conform very well with science, and there's zero actual evidence that anything else is going on - other than this distrust of government.

    Seriously - what do you think is the actual evidence that HAARP steered Sandy? What's ONE PIECE of evidence?
  34. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    That may have some effect, but I think the steering winds have much more of an effect on direction. Look at the tracks of all the hurricanes/cyclones over a 20 year period:

    It's basically standard atmospheric circulation, the trade winds:

    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
    • Like Like x 2
  35. openeyed

    openeyed New Member

    this article refers to people claiming that HAARP/Chemtrails or other man-made destructive technologies are likely to cause severe storms, mind control etc, as the "Facebook Fringe". I find this rather ironic, but then again one persons reality differs from another persons reality based on education, travel, reading, and how aware people are of world happenings and USA's rather self-destructive role in it all. Many of us would rather refer to the "Facebook Fringe" as those so in the dark about certain highly corrupt characteristics of the USA Fed government. You see them, those Facebook fringe freaks, chanting naive marketing slogans of the Pentagon and entire military industrial complex, like "freedom isn't free" or that somehow anyone could possibly be "dying for that freedom". Oh, the marketing slogans of our oppressive yet profitable extremist regime get ugly! I find these chants highly out of touch with reality, very insulting to an entire next generation, insulting to the young women/men being put into harms way for nothing but toxic profit in wrong direction, and insult to reality itself. When will the American sheeple wake up and realize that all the "oppression" is not merely "over there" somewhere in a 3rd World, that our country is not quite the "free nation" we've been hoodwinked into believing? Do something positive for our nation, our next generation to help our environment, schools, infrastructure, and create awareness around these destructive technologies like HAARP, drones, "smart"bombs...all of which do nothing to "protect" american citizens from those mostly fabricated "threats" from the outside? These people tend to be the same Facebook Fringe that believe 9/11 was a reason rather than a self-provoked, self-plotted excuse to take our country into unjustified, costly wars, the ONLY reason our nation is $16 trillion in debt today. Uneducated masses whom have not traveled to other continents, read enough, learned beyond the mind control brought to you by our TV NEWs owned by 1 of 6 war profiteering giants, owned by the same warmongers that own the HAARP facility and chemtrails, that same extremist regime hunting down people's daughters and no less horrific sons claiming they could "fiht for their country". A profitable hoax the Facebook Fringe fall submissive to in mind, body and soul

    Mick, I find you very naive and out of touch with reality. We have had potential "cures for cancer" since back in the 80's, purposely pushed aside by the cancer industry itself, as treating cancer is a profitable business. It's at least a $ 400 billion industry, and they WANT to keep people sick so they can treat them with expensive chemo, radiation, surgery etc. Not unlike the ONLY REASON the USA stays it's self-destructive status quo with it's horrific aggressive foreign policy-----an at least $900 billion industry that does nothing to really "protect freedom and security" from all those highly self-manufactured "threats" on the outside of our border. If you don't see HAARP and other technologies as quite possibly controlling extreme weather patterns, my guess is that you are also naive enough to believe USA's aggressive foreign policy somehow "serves our nation? Do you fall for such marketing slogans as well? At some point, the American sheeple wake up to it all, and it is all tied together. Population control, mind control, corruption at the hands of our FED government.
  36. openeyed

    openeyed New Member

    Good analogy "just saying". I'd like to add that we the American people don't really know the extent of Hitlers "atrocities" to begin with......not saying there were no concentration camps, but if 6 million Jews were really "gassed", there would have been the equivalent of 10 football fields of bodies, none of which could be found beyond the mainly Germans killed from product of the horrific war itself (bombings, typhus, starvation etc) and that the cracks in such camps would not have even allowed such massive gasing, as the Germans would have had to gas themselves to death. But that potential profitable hoax aside, we the American people have ALWAYS been deeply deceived about what is true or not.....with everything from our horrific aggressive foreign policy bringing our nation down today, to what is REALLY in the food we eat. There is now a fine line of demarcation between who the real "alarmist" are...those in denial over fact we have never really quite had anyone "die for her/his country", or that USA is not quite the "free nation" we were brainwashed to believe for so long. Yes, there is a direct link between this Pentagon owned HAARP facility & the military's Chemtrail little adventure and our self-destructive foreign policy. It's not merely the weather being manipulated, its people's minds by our TV News, HAARP and other oppressive acts
  37. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    openeyed, I'm just going by available evidence. It seems like the points you bring up are simply "the government is bad, they are brainwashing us". Now does it then follow from that that HAARP steered Sandy? Even if you think it's VERY LIKELY that the PTB would do such a thing, is there actually any evidence that they did?

    My argument is nothing to do with if people are evil or not, nor is it to do with if conspiracies exist or not, nor is it do do with if the general population is being duped by the elite, or not.

    It's do do with the lack of evidence that this storm was in any way deliberately steered.
  38. Met Watch

    Met Watch Moderator

    Almost thought about posting this in Dutch's own little thread, but since it relates to Sandy, I'll post it in both. Dutchsinse made this declaration today on Facebook:

    The videos and evidence he uses to cite this "discovery" are the same rezn8d posted above - which have already been addressed. Still an entertaining read, though.

  39. Chew

    Chew Senior Member

    So these people you accuse of suppressing a cure for cancer, their children never get cancer? Or they let their children die so they can make more money? Are you a parent? How much is your child's life worth to you?

    Sheeple who read something that fits their ideology so well it never occurs to them to think the implications through, implications like the stunningly obvious fact that doctors have children too and children get cancer?
    • Like Like x 1

  40. Mick, the truth of the matter, this matter or any other, is that no one has the Responsibility nor the Power to prove anything to you (or anyone). If I present evidence to you, what will you do with it? Debunk it? With what? With your own "evidence"? On and on forever. You don't want to believe that such things happen so it doesn't matter how much evidence is presented. It may not even matter if you personally are exposed point-blank to the biggest proof there could possibly be, even for you personally... if you don't want to believe it, you won't. You could fuel the chemtrail plane chemical tanks yourself, and take the plane ride and look out the back window and that wouldn't prove it to you. You could sit next to some HAARP tech who explained the whole thing to you of what they were doing and have them show you satellite and radar feedback demonstrating the effects as they make them and that won't do it for you.

    You'll go to the grave with those beliefs... or not. If and when you awaken is anyone's guess and that's all it can be - a guess, even for you.

    Ok, back atcha - where is your evidence that it is NOT caused by HAARP? Silly question to ask isn't it? Where's your personal evidence to show me that the solar system is helio-centric? No, I don't want you quoting some book or website, I want proof. Could you fly me around in space and show me? Could you sit down with me for years and chart stars and planets and the sun so we can see the movement, not because someone told us that, but because we "proved" it ourselves. What if that didn't constitute "proof" to me? What then? Yep, we've both observed such our whole lives but where is the "proof" for it? Right in this minute? Define "proof". Is it the same for the next guy as it is for you?

    The internet is loaded full of information on this. Just like with any other topic, yep, it demands your discernment skills to pick through what's real and what isn't. Yep, there are disinformation specialists out there aplenty. And yep, there are folks like you who may not realize what you are saying. You may or may not understand that b.s. you spew, but nevertheless, your b.s. gets mixed out there with everyone else's. Yep, tough to know what is and what isn't, but looking "out there" for so called "proof" is really not the way to truth. And real truth also demands honesty, WITH YOURSELF AND ABOUT YOURSELF. That also is not something that someone else can give to you. Some can help, but not if you don't accept.

    But hey, let's look at some hurdles that are finally getting jumped by some (still not all - denial is more than just a river in Egypt). HAARP influence or no, the climate is changing. It has been for years. It's been blatantly obvious to me but many others don't want to believe it if it hits them over the head. Records that used to last centuries and decades are lucky to last another year.

    Finally though, many politicians and media and meteorologists are now changing their tune. Instead of saying that this type of thing won't happen for another 100 years, now they're saying that this will be going on for the next 100 years. Many have said, "I guess the 100-year flood now happens every year or so." Now they're saying that we need to face the reality of climate change. Up until recently, such statements were censored and / or challenged. Now, many of such statements are left to stand.

    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

    At least some people are facing the reality of the natural climate change. Once you face the truth, then you can base decisions on that truth.

    What to do about the PTBs? Nothing. let them create their own world, they will anyway. What we resist persists. We don't get anywhere by fighting someone else's creation, we create anew. We make OUR OWN creation. I highly suggest everyone here reading this go inward, do your inner house cleaning, reconnect to your divine self and then follow its guidance to creating a better world. And yep, the PTBs will still be creating their world somewhere. Let 'em. And get over this "seeing is believing" crap. Just because you can't see it with your 3D eyes does not mean it doesn't exist.

    And those of you who "fear" HAARP, etc. need to get over that too. Yep, get to the point where you are aware of such, then create your own reality - not a "fantasy" but a dream. There is a difference. One is an escape. One is a creation. Hold a vision - diligently (which means "persistent application") of what you DO want, instead of constantly focusing on what you don't want and dumping energy into it.

    How long (if ever in this lifetime) before Mick accepts the truth of weather manipulation as being self-evident? Who knows? Some later posts say that you, Mick, are very naive. Yes, you are. You are also a control freak and you want to think you have a handle on your reality, that you know everything. The sad thing about someone who knows everything is that they have nothing left to learn. That has to be boring, not to mention a shame. But Life never gives up on people, not even you, you'll get every chance to wake up. Up to you what kind of beating you have to take to do so.