1. John123

    John123 New Member

    I don't know if this meets the guidelines but the Sandy Hook Hoaxers are at it again and I'm hoping you can help me put this one to rest. This time they are saying that Sandy Hook was closed 5-years ago. I couldn't be more sincere when I say that these SH hoaxers drive me nuts lol. It's disgusting what they are doing. I plan to research this later but I just know this is ridiculous. The notion that the whole town is in on it is preposterous. Why wouldn't one person step forward from Newtown and admit as much?

    Full proof sandy hook was closed 5 yrs ago

  2. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    You need to describe the claim of evidence in the video. Not just what it claims. What are they saying is the evidence?
  3. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Senior Member

    Sorry for an offtopic post, but that missing charity money sparked my interest. I found this comment on a story about it, just interesting how some people's minds work.
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  4. Josh Heuer

    Josh Heuer Active Member

    This first claim of 'evidence' is a gap of about 5 years where there was no archives on the wayback machine.

    The first save is in around 2000 and then it stays steady until 2008 and then completely stops. Then there's a save in 2013.

    As we all know, this was not when the site was actually saved or updated, just when the site was crawled using the wayback machine.
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  5. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Because at that time the robots.txt file was changed to:
    User-agent: *
    Disallow: /
    Which prevents Archive.org from archiving it. It does not mean the site it gone. Sometimes done for privacy conformance.

    It's a common thing to change when a web site is upgraded, many webmasters don't pay attention to it.
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  6. John123

    John123 New Member

    Thank you. As I said I couldn't be more sincere about how disgusted I am with SH Hoax believers. I have been following your site for about the last 2-weeks and really appreciate your thoughtful analysis on Sandy Hook as well as other so called 'conspiracies'. It's such a disgrace that people can be so naïve while these families suffer the loss of their precious children. Better minds than me can help sort this out and my time is very limited so I appreciate all that you do here.
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  7. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

  8. solrey

    solrey Senior Member

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  9. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I'm marking this as debunked. If someone feels it is not then describe the best piece of evidence that has not been debunked.
  10. John123

    John123 New Member

    Bravo! Thank you. I will be adding this to my arsenal :)
  11. james moore

    james moore New Member

    Some pics of Sandy Hook from the deceased principal's twitter feed, leading up to the shooting. It clearly shows teachers, students, classrooms etc.

    https://twitter.com/DHochsprung (http://archive.today/b9Cf5)

    There's plenty of information to prove the school existed, what it looked like, what the students and teachers looked like etc.


    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2014
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  12. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    documents and Pictures at Sandy Hook elementary

    sept 3 2010 pic dawn hochsprung at SHE http://archive.today/61f9M copyright protected
    2011 relay for life pic http://archive.today/FH27V copyright protected

    june 2010 pic
    http://archive.today/7VrmQ copyright protected

    2010 Chess club at SHE (put mouse over pic to see label) http://www.chambersfinancialblog.com/2010/12/chess-and-game-of-life.html

    2000-2011 documentation
    School Facilities Survey State Of Connecticut: ED050, Rev August 2011 Department Of Education Statutory Ref: C.G.S. 10-220

    2009-2010 http://www.k12guides.com/school/Sandy-Hook-Elementary-School:090291000617.html

    2008/2009/2010 testing results http://www.localschooldirectory.com/public-school/16596/CT


    2010 http://www.newstimes.com/news/article/Newtown-hires-two-new-elementary-principals-523657.php
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  13. Mike Fl

    Mike Fl New Member

    Many people continue to make the false assertion that Sandy Hook Elementary School was not an operational school, even though there is an abundance of information out there to prove otherwise, some of which I have shown here: https://www.facebook.com/SandyHookTragedyFacts/posts/910097392353573

    The condition of the 1956 school building continues to be brought up as a reason to their false assertion that the school was not operational.

    August 2011 School Facilities Survey for Sandy Hook Elementary School: http://www.newtown.k12.ct.us/Portals/Newtown/District/docs/Facilities/School Facilities Survey/ED050-SANDY HOOK.pdf (Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20140714130545/http://www.newtown.k12.ct.us/Portals/Newtown/District/docs/Facilities/School Facilities Survey/ED050-SANDY HOOK.pdf)

    From the August 2011 School Facilities Survey for Sandy Hook Elementary School above: "Check box if this facility is no longer used for school purposes" is NOT checked off. There is no year next to "Year facility closed."
    Under Appearance/Upkeep: Classrooms has a 2 (fair), while Building Facade, Grounds/Landscaping, and Lavatories/Fountains have a 3 (good). Entrance/Hallways, Lighting/Fixtures, Cafeteria, and Code Compliance have a 4 (excellent).

    You can check a facilities survey for other Newtown public schools at https://www.csde.state.ct.us/public/dgm/ed050/pickyear.aspx or http://www.newtown.k12.ct.us/Departments/Facilities/tabid/15869/Default.aspx

    From the August 2013 School Facilities Survey for Middle Gate Elementary School, you can see under Appearance/Upkeep: Building Facade, Grounds/Landscaping, Classrooms, Lavatories/Fountains, Lighting/Fixtures, and Code Compliance have a 3 (good) and Entrance/Hallways and Cafeteria have a 4 (excellent).

    The facilities survey for Sandy Hook Elementary School was from 2011 and had 1 fair, 3 good, and 4 excellent. The facilities survey for Middle Gate Elementary School was from 2013 and had 6 good and 2 excellent.
    Sandy Hook Elementary School was built in 1956. Middle Gate Elementary School was built in 1964. Both are listed as having a last major renovation in 1993.

    Condition of America's Public School Facilities: 2012 –13: http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2014/2014022.pdf (Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20150331030331/http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2014/2014022.pdf)

    From Condition of America's Public School Facilities: 2012 –13 above: "Among public schools with permanent buildings, the building systems/features were rated as being in fair or poor condition in their permanent buildings in 14 to 32 percent of the schools: windows (32 percent); plumbing/lavatories (31 percent); heating system, air conditioning system, and ventilation/filtration system (30 percent each); energy management system, security systems, and exterior lighting (29 percent each); roofs, interior finishes/trim, and internal communication systems (25 percent each); electrical system (22 percent); technology infrastructure (21 percent); interior lighting and life safety features (19 percent each); exterior walls/finishes (18 percent); and framing, floors, and foundations (14 percent) (table 2)" (Percentages are based on schools with that building system/feature in their permanent buildings.)

    "Based on survey responses, 53 percent of public schools needed to spend money on repairs, renovations, and modernizations to put the school’s onsite buildings in good overall condition (table 5). The total amount needed was estimated to be approximately $197 billion, and the average dollar amount for schools needing to spend money was about $4.5 million per school (not shown in tables)."

    Look at this, Wolfgang W. Halbig! Toxic schools: Mold, air quality spark thousands of complaints in Central Florida: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...01016_1_mold-buildup-air-quality-humid-states (Archive: https://archive.is/MzrJB)

    From this July 13, 2012 article from The Newtown Bee, we find out: "Work on the Sandy Hook School roof began in earnest last week as materials for the $180,000 project were set in position. The project to replace the school's entire roof won the school board’s nod over a $70,000 offer by Barrett Roofing and Supply Inc to repair leaks in the roof. The town has filed a lawsuit against Barrett for $15,000 in damages after the flat-style roof on the elementary school began leaking. The roof was installed five years ago." http://newtownbee.com/news/125363 (Archive: https://archive.is/p7f0Q)

    Board of Education's Approved Budget for the 2013-14 Academic Year: http://www.newtown.k12.ct.us/Portals/Newtown/District/docs/BOARD OF EDUCATION/BOE Budgets/2013-2014 Budgets/6-4-13 Appr. Budget.Full Version.pdf (Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20150511141744/http://www.newtown.k12.ct.us/Portals/Newtown/District/docs/BOARD OF EDUCATION/BOE Budgets/2013-2014 Budgets/6-4-13 Appr. Budget.Full Version.pdf)


    In the Board of Education's Approved Budget for the 2013-14 Academic Year above, it states: "Please Note: This budget estimate was initiated and assembled before the tragic event of December 14, 2012. The staffing and building operations were consistent with our experiences of operating the Sandy Hook School. The new location at Chalk Hill School in Monroe, will have impacts that have not been fully evaluated at this time. Consequently, as we go through the process of the upcoming budget deliberations, essential changes will be required. These will be vetted as we proceed. Your understanding and acknowledgement of this will be appreciated."


    Additionally, "In recent years due to difficult economic times, building and site maintenance projects have been drastically underfunded. This practice of deferring much needed maintenance has had a serious effect on the future budget and as new projects/issues are being added to the appendix a very daunting amount of work faces the School District. For more detail regarding building and site maintenance projects please refer to the proposed list of projects for this year and the five year plan on the pages that follow." The Building & Site Maintenance Projects chart shows $96,500 for 2012-2013, with a "Note: 2012-13 amount from Town capital and non-recurring fund - Not included in other BOE budget totals in this functional category."


    Furthermore, "A significant increase in building and site maintenance projects which have been deferred for many years and completely eliminated from the 2012-13 budget year. The amount included here is to make up for this year and get us back on track for the 2013-14 budget year, this has been an emphasized need by the Board. This amount after the Board of Education's reductions of $250,000 on February 5, 2013 and another $250,000 on June 18, 2013 is $574,000."


    "Forty-one specific projects were proposed and detailed within the plant operation budget. Funds originally requested for projects at Sandy Hook School may need to be used for Chalk Hill School. The Board of Education cut these projects by $250,000 on February 5, 2013 and another $250,000 on June 18, 2013. Specific projects cut are indicated on the list of proposed projects within the plant operation budget. Projects that exceed $265,367 in cost are included annually in the BOE's Capital Improvement Plan (CIP) that is submitted to the Board of Finance and Legislative Council for separate consideration. Because of the significant costs for these items and CIP items, it became impossible for the Board to complete all the needed projects in past years and they were deferred to this year."


    In the Building & Site Maintenance Projects - Five Year Plan from the Board of Education Approved Budget for the 2013-2014 School Year, we can see what building and site maintenance projects were planned for the 1956 Sandy Hook Elementary School building, all of the data being before the school shooting occurred.


    The shaded costs mean "Projects originally in 2013-14 budget, now deferred to 2014-15 budget."

    So, for Sandy Hook Elementary School, below are the projects that were originally in the 2013-2014 budget:
    That is a total of $145,000.

    In addition, in the Building & Site Maintenance Projects - Five Year Plan from the Board of Education Approved Budget for the 2013-2014 School Year, we see the additional projects:
    $7,500 REPLACE SKYLIGHT SHADES-RM 50,52,54,56
    That is a total of $236,000.

    Newtown Public Schools Board of Education Requested Budget for the 2012-2013: http://www.newtown.k12.ct.us/Portals/Newtown/District/docs/BOARD OF EDUCATION/BOE Budgets/2012-2013 Budgets/BOE Requested Budget Book.rev2.pdf (Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20140926061038/http://www.newtown.k12.ct.us/Portals/Newtown/District/docs/BOARD OF EDUCATION/BOE Budgets/2012-2013 Budgets/BOE Requested Budget Book.rev2.pdf)


    In the Five-Year Capital Improvement Plan from the Newtown Public Schools Board of Education Requested Budget for the 2012-2013 School Year above, under 2014/15, there is Window Replacement Projects for Sandy Hook Elementary School for $600,000.


    It is also listed for the 2013-2014 school year, under 2016/17, approved by the BOE 10/16/2012.

    In conclusion, it is clear from the projects above and their grand total of $381,000, in addition to the $600,000 window replacement projects, that there were full intentions of improving the Sandy Hook Elementary School building and site. While there were no building and site maintenance projects completed in 2012-2013 for Sandy Hook Elementary School (or any school in the Newtown district due to difficult economic times - besides pave front parking lot for Newtown Middle School, which funding for the project $96,500 came from the town's capital fund), the 2013-2014 approved budget was raised to $574,000 to get things back on track.
    Last edited: May 11, 2015
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  14. MikeG

    MikeG Senior Member

    I found this image among the many crime scene photos Halbig claims were "evidence" that the school was uninhabitable. I am not sure exactly what type of work was going to happen on the school grounds, but it is pretty obvious that maintenance was ongoing.

    Sandy Hook Image.
  15. letlibertyring

    letlibertyring New Member

    To the O.P: Is it your contention that the school was in good shape, bad shape? Or do you not care? Are you only referring to it being operational? I ask this because Halbig's general claim is that the school was in such bad shape it should not have been open.
  16. Hasn't this already been covered in the similar thread concerning crime scene photos of SHES ?
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  17. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  18. Thanks, Mick. I really need to get the knack of copying down. May have to call in the teenage son for tech aid.
  19. NoParty

    NoParty Senior Member


    "The truth is going to show that Sandy Hook, that school was not an operating school." --Halbig
  20. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    It is a bit wonky having the same claim in two different threads. (three if we count Fetzers Wayback claim- which is at least a different claim of evidence https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-full-proof-sandy-hook-was-closed-5-yrs-ago.t3236/#post-93561 ).

    Basically it is only Halbig making the "poor conditions" claim, the photos is is his evidence.
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  21. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    i think the OP here was not really about the condition of the school, but rather using this documentation to show the school was in operation. It's not actually clear what the all original claimed evidence was, although there was some indicated here:

    which includes the gap in the Wayback Machine coverage, and other things.

    There's a bit of tradeoff here between accessible debunking that focusses on one bit minutia (like mousetraps), and monolithic posts that list every single bit of evidence and its rebuttal.
  22. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    ok so this should be in the Wayback thread. There is no claim evidence presented here, its just "people keep saying blah blah blah", which isnt what metabunk does.
  23. Mike Fl

    Mike Fl New Member

    I tend to stay on the school was operational and not try to debunk Wolfgang's opinions on the school's condition since I'm no expert and it's hard to just go by pictures. It seems like Wolfgang would call anything mold, even if it's not.

    This was also meant to show the school board's intention and projection for improving the school before the shooting occurred and that difficult economic times delayed the process (for the entire school district).
  24. NoHoax

    NoHoax New Member

    The numbers of SHES being closed. These are estimates, of course, but how many people would know that SHES was really closed in 2008?

    500 SHES students.
    1500 caregivers, siblings, etc. of the SHES students
    100 teachers, admins and staff.
    The school board
    Every supplier, postal carrier, etc.
    1000 kids in the other schools-the SHES student's have to go to school somewhere. The kids of the others schools will know that the bunch of new kids are from SHES.
    Every teacher in the other schools would know, because suddenly the class size gets bigger to absorb the SHES students.
    The teacher's union would know because there would severance for the SHES teachers and staff.
    The town council would have to approve the closure and budget for it.
    The local media would all report the closure
    The local real estate agents would know, because having a house near a good school is worth extra money.

    So all these people would be aware of the closure, but there is no evidence that anyone ever spoke out about it. Sure the hoaxers can claim that SHES photos were all fakes, but can they deny that all the people would know of the closure?

    And if Sandy Hook were closed, how do you hide that it was suddenly reopened with hundreds of students and teachers, etc. Wow, that is lot of people to buy off.
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  25. Whitebeard

    Whitebeard Senior Member

    Thats the big flaw in the grand conspiracies, to big to keep quiet. Three or four guys in a room can conspire away and get away with it, no one, or very few people, to buy off. The huge conspiracies would need the buying of hundreds of people (and in the the case of really big stuff like 9-11, Charlie Hebro, the moon landings etc, thousands or millions) would have to kept quiet. Its just not possible for all those people to be hushed up with out whistle blowers etc. I mean look at the smaller conspiracies that have been exposed by whistleblowers and leaks, Iran-contra,the UK cash for Questions gladio etc... the bigger and more complex the conspiracy the more likely it will collapse, and ergo the bigger the conspiracy the more likely it didn't happen.
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  26. Spectrar Ghost

    Spectrar Ghost Senior Member

    I wish this logic were as apparent to some CTers. It'd cut down on the vast majority of theories. I'm not sure why it's not convincing, though overestimation of the governments capabilities.
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