Debunked: Fluoride and Alzheimers

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In this case I point out that not very many people believe the stats you people are pushing and their is a widespread belief that fluoride is definitely linked to aluminum in the brain and alzheimers.

Well I'm sure that's what you believe, but these people disagree with you: (according to the County of Sonoma - Department of Health Services)

Alzheimer's Association
American Academy of Family Physicians
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Association for Community Dental Programs
American Association for the Advancement of Science
American Cancer Society
American Dental Association
American Dental Hygientists' Association
American Dietetic Association
American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations
American Hospital Association
American Medical Association
California Dental Association
Canadian Medical Association
Canadian Nurses Association
Consumer Federation of America
Hispanic Dental Association
Institute of Medicine
March of Dimes Birth Defects Foundation
National Black Caucus of State Legislators
Robert Wood Johnson Foundation
American Society for Geriatric Dentistry
U.S. Department of Veteran Affairs
U.S. Public Health Service
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
World Health Organization


BTW, can you explain why the Alzheimer's Association supports water fluoridation?
 
Cryolite, you seem to be mistaken about several points of fact. For instance, studies have shown that the poor oral health in Sonoma County is not isolated to a "very small group of poor folk whose kids tend toward rotten teeth". Your figures on the Fluoride content of wine are far higher than even those published on the Fluoride Action Network. Least of all, Germany may have had a .5ppm limit on imported wine, but US wine was granted an exception on the condition the they could demonstrate the wine was safe. Which they did, and exports to Germany rose 365%.

But here's the point. Even if only poor people in Sonoma county have rotten teeth, even if wine has 100 times more Fluoride than is published by the EPA, even if Germany bans wine from California, none of those would demonstrate a that Fluoride causes Alzheimer’s.
 
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In doing a little research, I found out that most of the cryolite is used on organic food.
And people are supposed to take your word for that are they?

Strange then, that when I search "cryolite is used on organic food", I get umpteen hits on

Fluoride-based pesticide chemicals such as cryolite ... are commonly used on non-organic food crops
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Non-organic foods contain upwards of 180 times the fluoride level of tap water According to fluoride expert Jeff Green
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Did you deliberately omit the word 'non' from your sentence?

Further, what your pro Monsanto, anti Organic rhetoric misses out is that the USDA tried desperately to contaminate organic foods, (so that people like you could later disparage it) by attempting to allow the following to be catagorised as 'organic'

The US Department of Agriculture's (USDA) revised rule on National Organic Standards (NOS), proposed in March 2000, was finalized in December. For the most part, the standards have been written with care and integrity. For the rest, they attracted over 40,000 comments from the public. The standards were first proposed in 1997 and included proposals to use sewage sludge, irradiation, antibiotics in livestock, and genetically modified organisms. USDA withdrew the proposal after receiving over 275,000 comments from the public-- the most comments received on any US agency proposal in history.

In the main the public's efforts on this issue paid off well. In the final NOS the four practices listed above were out, but unfortunately, despite over 100 comments, those concerned about fluoride were ignored. Incredibly, the new standards allow the use of the toxic substance sodium fluoride in organic agriculture.
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Not for the want of trying eh?

And as for organisations promoting fluoridation, there are plenty that do not and point out the dangers.

http://www.cleanwaterportland.org/recent_science

There have been a number of recent significant scientific changes in what we know about fluoridation. In 2006 the National Academy of Sciences published a 500-page report that highlighted numerous studies linking low fluoride levels in drinking water to a range of human health risks from decreased IQ and thyroid disorders to potential bone cancer risks.1
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So just because Metabunk says its 'debunked' does not make it so.

THINK AGAIN!

Credibility must be earned and that is no way to go about it.
 
Strange then, that when I search "cryolite is used on organic food", I get umpteen hits on

Fluoride-based pesticide chemicals such as cryolite ... are commonly used on non-organic food crops
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I Googled "Fluoride-based pesticide chemicals such as cryolite" and up popped Natural News...

And of course infowars.com wasn't far behind...
 
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Excuse me Mike, I guess I missed the Nobel Prize announcement for the discovery of the cause of alzheimers.

Snarky much? And also completely irrelevant - I did not mention any such thing.

Alzheimers is a prion disease, and the only known cause of that are CJ and cuncussion's of different sorts. If you don't know the cause you cannot write anything off.

I didn't write anything off at all - I pointed out the available verifiable evidence - and AFAIK there is NONE for aluminium being a cause of Alzheimers.

Actually my discussion of fluoride insecticides had to do with posts here about alzheimers that stated fluoride added to water is proven to be beneficial. It is not proven to be beneficial,

Just. Plain. Wrong.

just like the link between fluoride and alzheimers has not been proven to be non-existant.

double negative - another nice trick to avoid actually addressing the issue - which is that no such link has actually been established in the first place.

How about the link between fluoride and prion disease?

Is there one? If so what is the evidence supporting that?
 
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I Googled "Fluoride-based pesticide chemicals such as cryolite" and up popped Natural News...

Which means what exactly?

That contrary to Cairenns claim, such a search does not bring up that "most of the cryolite is used on organic food", which is an outright and easily proven lie.

So what is the point of your post?

Is it ooh ooh ooh... 'don't believe anything Natural News says'?

I want to know, why Cairenn thinks she can come out with such a blatant lie and why she feels so strongly compelled to make stuff up. Debunker?

How someone comes from the USDA attempting to 'let any old poison be put on 'organic' produce', to telling an outright lie that "most of the cryolite is used on organic food", is beyond me.

Debunk that.
 
What you need to understand is, Fluoride is a chemical waste product from the Aluminium industry which they had to pay to dispose of as a toxic waste until someone came up with the bright idea of making money from it by dumping it straight into the water system, 'on medical grounds'.

http://www.madehow.com/Volume-5/Aluminum.html
Cryolite, a chemical compound composed of sodium, aluminum, and fluorine, is used as the electrolyte (current-conducting medium) in the smelting operation. Naturally occurring cryolite was once mined in Greenland, but the compound is now produced synthetically for use in the production of aluminum. Aluminum fluoride is added to lower the melting point of the electrolyte solution.
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http://www.fluoride-history.de/chemicals.htm
Probably the earliest means of artificial water fluoridation was the uncontrolled release of industrial fluoride waste into rivers and streams from where many communities get their drinking water. Furthermore, late in the 19th century patents were filed on processes to purify and soften water by addition of fluorides which were claimed to precipitate the minerals responsible for water hardness. No one of the applicants apparently considered any toxic effects of their proposed additions.

In 1931, "natural" fluoride was found to be the cause of "mottled teeth" in humans. Whether indeed natural -taken up by the water from certain rock formations- or merely pollution, - analyses, carried out by Harry V. Churchill, chief chemist of ALCOA´s New Kensington plant, proved its presence in the water of afflicted districts. When in June of that same year the Superintendent of the Filtration Division, Bureau of Water, City of Pittsburgh, wrote to Churchill (1):

"Several months ago, the Sanitary Water Board found that an industrial plant not far from New Kensington had been discharging fluorine into the Allegheny River. The officials of that plant discontinued such discharge when requested",

he received the following reply (2) [remember, this was written in 1931 !]:

"Tap water from both New Kensington and Pittsburgh shows that the fluorine content is variable in both waters. In no case have we found the amount to be greater than 1 part per million. Fluorine in this amount is probably not harmful and on the other hand may be positively beneficial. ... The presence of fluorine in water is apparently not necessarily proof of industrial contamination since it occurs in small amounts in so many water supplies."
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How ridiculous is that. As a guestimate, 0.000001% or less of the water is actually drunk and the rest is just a pollutant. It is a scam and worse it is a scam that harms peoples health and harms the environment and makes money at their expense by dumping toxic waste.

http://www.health-science.com/fluoride_toxicity.html
Aluminum fluoride and Alzheimer's Disease
Many municipal water supplies are treated with both alum (aluminum sulfate) and fluoride. These two chemicals combine with each other easily in the blood to form aluminum fluoride. Although elemental aluminum can not pass the blood-brain barrier, some compounds such as aluminum fluoride do. Aluminum fluoride is very poorly excreted in the urine. It is poisonous to the kidneys. Aluminum salts in the brain lead to Alzheimer's Disease.

Absorption and concentration in tissues
In the body, fluorine is readily absorbed. Fluorine concentrates in the same tissues where calcium is found in the largest amounts; especially the bones and teeth. In teeth, fluorine combines with the inorganic compound apatite to form a harder, less water-soluble fluoride salt called fluoroapatite. A pregnant mother's fluorine intake affects the amount of fluorine found in the primary teeth that develop in her fetus.

Thickens but weakens bones
In the early 1980's it was discovered that fluorine will stimulate new bone growth. "Therapeutic" doses (30-60 mg/day for 3 years) were given to elderly subjects with osteoporosis. It reduced the incidence of fractures if adequate amounts of calcium were also supplied. Frequent side effects included frequent gastric irritation and nausea. Sometime, the patient developed painful bone deformations.
[JAMA 243:466, 1980]

Another research study reported that fluoride has a direct effect on bone cells by increasing proliferation and alkaline phosphatase activity. Fluoride not only increases the proliferation rate of bone cells, but also enhances the growth and mineralization of embrionic bone.
[Farley JR, Wergedal JE, and Baylink DJ, Fluoride directly stimulates proliferation and alkaline phosphatase activity of bone-forming cells, Science 222:330-332, 1983]
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http://www.pspinformation.com/nutrition/minerals/aluminum.shtml
Aluminum when taken inside the body is harmful to all life forms. It damages all types of tissue. Aluminum is a protoplasmic poison and a pernicious and persistent neurotoxin. No living systems use aluminium as part of a biochemical process. It has a tendency to accumulate in the brain and bones. It is considerably less toxic than mercury, arsenic, lead or cadmium, but it is much more common in our environment, it also appears to be more persistent than most of the others. The danger is one that only manifests itself over long periods of time
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.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3056430/
2.1. Effects of Al on the Memory Disorder of Human: Historical Overview
An association between Al poisoning and memory disorder in humans was first reported in 1921 [17]. Later, it was shown that the intracerebral administration of Al induced epilepsy in experimental animals [18]. As a component of dialysis solutions or Al-containing pharmacological compounds, Al is known to cause various dialysis-related disorders, including osteomalacia (aluminum bone disease), microcytic anemia, β2-microglobulin-associated amyloidosis [19], and dialysis encephalopathy in hemodialysis patients [20].

The accidental contamination of Al into drinking water occurred and more than 20,000 persons were exposed to high level of Al at 1988 in Camelford (Cornwall, UK). Residents exposed to contaminated Al exhibited various symptoms related to cerebral impairments such as loss of concentration and short term memory in a 10-year follow-up study [21].

Al causes apoptotic death of neurons and glial cells. Chronic administration of Al impairs long-term potentiation (LTP), which is a form of synaptic information storage well-known as a paradigm of memory mechanisms. Al also impairs various enzymes including those related to neurotransmitter synthesis and thus affects the neurotransmitter content. Al3+ also inhibits voltage-gated Ca2+ channels and neurotransmitter receptors, and impairs synaptic transmission. Finally, Al causes spatial memory deficit, influences emotional reactivity, and impairs various brain functions related to learning and memory. These adverse effects may be involved in the mechanisms that underlie Al-induced memory disorder.
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Thanks for those stats, I knew someone would come up with them. But those are averages, they say nothing about all those people who have been drinking 2 bottle of wine (or 3) a day for the last 40 years. If you extrapolated based on those people, most california wine would indeed be drunk by californians.

You seem do to this a lot. Make claims with no facts or links to back them up. Get refuted by facts and evidence. Make same claims without evidence. Are you trolling?
 
What you need to understand is, Fluoride is a chemical waste product from the Aluminium industry which they had to pay to dispose of as a toxic waste until someone came up with the bright idea of making money from it by dumping it straight into the water system, 'on medical grounds'.

But why should we think that the dosage put in water today is harmful? Let alone a direct risk factor for Alzheimer's?

Absorption and concentration in tissues
In the body, fluorine is readily absorbed. Fluorine concentrates in the same tissues where calcium is found in the largest amounts; especially the bones and teeth. In teeth, fluorine combines with the inorganic compound apatite to form a harder, less water-soluble fluoride salt called fluoroapatite. A pregnant mother's fluorine intake affects the amount of fluorine found in the primary teeth that develop in her fetus.
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Fluorine =/= Fluoride

Fluoride is the active ingredient in fluoridated water. They are two completely different forms of the same element. The difference in charge really matters. For example, drinking chlorine will form highly corrosive hydrochloric acid in your stomach and lead to a rather unpleasant death. Chloride, however, is consumed regularly in the form of table salt.

What is your point about the aluminum in relation to fluoride? Are you trying to address the discussion of Al-F complexes effect on biological tissue? If so, the details of that have not been completely worked out yet. It seems that Al-F systems cause problems when tested in the lab, but no in-vivo mechanism has been observed.

http://cro.sagepub.com/content/14/2/100.long

The potential physiological implications of AlFx are revealed by many studies cited in this paper. In most of the situations, the investigators have not proved that Al-F complexes are present in vivo. Are they formed in the GI tract before being absorbed? In what concentrations and in what forms are they present in plasma? Are they bound to nucleotides in plasma? How are they delivered to the extracellular fluid? An understanding of these questions is fundamental to the comprehension of its physiology. At acidic pH (e.g., pH 1-4), the concentration requirement for F to form effective Al-F complexes is greatly reduced. At pH 4, a significant amount of AlF3 is formed in the presence of 50-100 μM F. Regular fluoridated drinking water (1 ppm F) contains 53 μM F, and gastric juice usually falls between pH 1 and 2. A central issue concerning the absorption and distribution of AlFx seems to be how AlFx crosses a biological membrane. An artificial lipid bilayer system can be used for studying the transmembrane migration of AlFx. It is suspected that the electro-neutral complex, AlF3, would be the most deliverable species in the in vivo system.
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In fact, it seems like the body has ways of dealing with this toxicity or it could just be that the complex is unable to pass membranes and cause damage.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12002270

The results suggest that absorbed F enhanced urinary Al excretion and that the Al in urine may be, at least in part, derived from endogenous tissues.
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EDIT: The first article I posted mentions that the neutral AlF3 wold be the most likely species to be able to pass a membrane. AlF4- is what is favored to form in acidic environments, though. Seeing as gastric juices are kept at a range of 1.5-3.5 pH and AlF3 would only be more favored at pH levels at about or greater than 7.
 
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Cryolite, you seem to be mistaken about several points of fact. For instance, studies have shown that the poor oral health in Sonoma County is not isolated to a "very small group of poor folk whose kids tend toward rotten teeth". Your figures on the Fluoride content of wine are far higher than even those published on the Fluoride Action Network. Least of all, Germany may have had a .5ppm limit on imported wine, but US wine was granted an exception on the condition the they could demonstrate the wine was safe. Which they did, and exports to Germany rose 365%.

But here's the point. Even if only poor people in Sonoma county have rotten teeth, even if wine has 100 times more Fluoride than is published by the EPA, even if Germany bans wine from California, none of those would demonstrate a that Fluoride causes Alzheimer’s.


The people on this site are so keen on misquoting. Obviously not just a pocket of poor people get rotten teeth. That pocket of poor people (kids) with rotten teeth has gotten all of the newspaper propaganda and supervisors' meeting discussion. As for fluoride causing alzheimers, I pointed out that the fluoride used as insecticide on grapes has polluted the ground, therefor groudwater. I love all you experts on Sonoma County that do not live here as I do. So how many of you experts on sonoma co who don't live here know of the extensive aquifer system where much of the water to certain areas come from here??
How many of you have bothered to look up my username cryolite? Who can tell me how many thousand tons of cryolite have been dumped onto vineyards in this county since cryolite was first used as an insecticide, and how long it stays in the environment? Cryolite may be naturally ccuring in Greenland and or Mars, but insecticides based on fluoride to kill insects like cryolite aka sodium hexafluoroaluminate are man made creations by Ortho and some other chemical companies. Cryolite has been the most extensively used insecticide up until a total ban on all fluoride based insecticides in Sonoma County about ten years ago. And yes, it slips through the cracks of USDA Organic regulations, and those folks saying so are correct. However, it has mostly been used on no non-organic grapes. Aluminum in the form of hexafluoraluminate (in the presence of fluoride) does cross the human blood brain barrier. However, I stated Alzheimers is Prion disease, and I never said Prion disease was caused by fluoridated water.
 
You seem do to this a lot. Make claims with no facts or links to back them up. Get refuted by facts and evidence. Make same claims without evidence. Are you trolling?

No, just bugging you because your facts are so entirely refuteable. Trolling for what?
 
Well I'm sure that's what you believe, but these people disagree with you: (according to the County of Sonoma - Department of Health Services)

Alzheimer's Association
American Academy of Family Physicians
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Association for Community Dental Programs
American Association for the Advancement of Science
American Cancer Society
American Dental Association
American Dental Hygientists' Association
American Dietetic Association
American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations
American Hospital Association
American Medical Association
California Dental Association
Canadian Medical Association
Canadian Nurses Association
Consumer Federation of America
Hispanic Dental Association
Institute of Medicine
March of Dimes Birth Defects Foundation
National Black Caucus of State Legislators
Robert Wood Johnson Foundation
American Society for Geriatric Dentistry
U.S. Department of Veteran Affairs
U.S. Public Health Service
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
World Health Organization


BTW, can you explain why the Alzheimer's Association supports water fluoridation?

Yes I can explain why the alzheimers association supports water fluoridation. Because water fluoridation likely does not cause alzheimers, and like all other organizations that have absolutely no business supporting water fluoridation they have been paid off by the phosphate fertilizer boys to the tune of 2.78 million dollors to board members. Otherwise, tell my what on earth the alzheimers assoc. is doing endorsing fluoridated water?
 
In doing a little research, I found out that most of the cryolite is used on organic food.

Yes, It is used on organic food. Most Cryolite has been used on conventional crops. Cryolite--sodium hexafluoroaluminate has managed to slip between the cracks in the USDA Organic rules.
 
Yes I can explain why the alzheimers association supports water fluoridation. Because water fluoridation likely does not cause alzheimers, and like all other organizations that have absolutely no business supporting water fluoridation they have been paid off by the phosphate fertilizer boys to the tune of 2.78 million dollors to board members. Otherwise, tell my what on earth the alzheimers assoc. is doing endorsing fluoridated water?
Any evidence? No? Trolling.
 
Well I'm sure that's what you believe, but these people disagree with you: (according to the County of Sonoma - Department of Health Services)

Alzheimer's Association
American Academy of Family Physicians
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Association for Community Dental Programs
American Association for the Advancement of Science
American Cancer Society
American Dental Association
American Dental Hygientists' Association
American Dietetic Association
American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations
American Hospital Association
American Medical Association
California Dental Association
Canadian Medical Association
Canadian Nurses Association
Consumer Federation of America
Hispanic Dental Association
Institute of Medicine
March of Dimes Birth Defects Foundation
National Black Caucus of State Legislators
Robert Wood Johnson Foundation
American Society for Geriatric Dentistry
U.S. Department of Veteran Affairs
U.S. Public Health Service
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
World Health Organization


BTW, can you explain why the Alzheimer's Association supports water fluoridation?

You know, if you actually read my comment, I said most people don't believethis sites info, and that most people believe alzheimers is caused by aluminum. I never said eating from an aluminum pan, or eating aluminum or whatever caused alzheimers. u so good at makin stuff up you want to believe
 
Yes I can explain why the alzheimers association supports water fluoridation. Because water fluoridation likely does not cause alzheimers

Good. Then we agree.

Otherwise, tell my what on earth the alzheimers assoc. is doing endorsing fluoridated water?

Because they recognize and understand the public health benefits that water fluoridation brings to the community and they want to dispel any myths about Alzheimer's being linked to water fluoridation?
 
Well ... there are news about flouride and they are NO GOOD NEWS from HARVARD

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/features/fluoride-childrens-health-grandjean-choi.html

Do you really believe that a government that steals its people (through wars, and Lehman Boys who doubled the public debt) ... can have a minimum honest concern about public health even in terms of large scale economy.

Flouride deliverd to rats provoked Alzheimer symptoms but they avoid to check the same in humans for obvious reasons.

They plan to put Lithium in water and they will do it with proud.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...thium-drinking-water-lower-suicide-rates.html

Yes, It is difficult to take anybody seriously who thinks that our Governments do anything (like fluoridate water) out of the goodness of their hearts. Actually, in the US, the El Paso Texas region has one of the very few water supplies with appreciable amounts of naturally occuring Lithium, and the El Paso region has the lowest incidence in the US of mental illness. Perhaps like other heavy metals like lead, fluoride, lithium, make kids dumb and it is just harder to tell if they are mentally ill. The Gov't is a bunch of crooks from the top to the lowly county gov'ts that can force fluoride down out throats just to line their pockets in payoffs from the fluoride water boys.
 
Good. Then we agree.



Because they recognize and understand the public health benefits that water fluoridation brings to the community and they want to dispel any myths about Alzheimer's being linked to water fluoridation?

No, because the fluoride people have paid off the alzheimer people, because the fluoride people are losing business because people are starting to wise up to the fact that fluoridated water may have had its place prior to fluoridated toothpaste and people going to dentists on a regular basis
 
Try these.

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/alzheimers-dementia/by-country/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation_by_country

Of course it's hard to pick a correlation out with so many confounding factors. It's also easy to cherry pick say, Japan (no F, low A). or Finland (only one town with F, but the highest A in the world). Sweden and Norway are similar to Finland. .

Mike- the first link shows a world where alzheimers disease correlates almost exactly with water fluoridation. Scary! The second link obfuscates the discussion because it shows current info, not historical info of fluoridation. How about a map showing the use of the insecticide-- sodium hexafluoroaluminate, ie cryolite for the last 50 years in amounts used. Good luck ever getting that info from Ortho and the generic makers. Fluoridated water use does seem to correlate to a high degree with cryolite use, as it seemed like a smart idea 50 years ago.
 
Any of your claims.

Is there a reason you are making a lot of posts?

Other than responding to mostly incorrect readings of my initial few comments, no. I think I have responded to everyone that has asked for a response, including you. Is there a reason you ask?
 
What claims, specifically, deareo

How about these ones:

because the fluoride people have paid off the alzheimer people, because the fluoride people are losing business because people are starting to wise up to the fact that fluoridated water may have had its place prior to fluoridated toothpaste and people going to dentists on a regular basis
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Perhaps like other heavy metals like lead, fluoride, lithium, make kids dumb and it is just harder to tell if they are mentally ill. The Gov't is a bunch of crooks from the top to the lowly county gov'ts that can force fluoride down out throats just to line their pockets in payoffs from the fluoride water boys.

Distrust in the government does not mean everything they do is sinister. Assuming so is cynical.

Wine with high levels of fluoride could very well be the vector linking alzheimers to aluminum. Not crazy, just like unadulterated H20. A little di-chloramine is ok, but nothing else, please.

Why do you think the levels of fluoride found in wine or plants sprayed with fluoride based pesticide (sulfuryl fluoride or cryolite) are so harmful? Do you have any data?

http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/sulfuryl-fluoride/questions.html
How much of total fluoride exposure is due to sulfuryl fluoride?
Residues of fluoride due to fumigating commodities, mills, and bakeries with sulfuryl fluoride constitute less than three percent of the total exposure to fluoride.
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http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/factsheets/0087fact.pdf
The Agency concluded that levels of fluoride in/on food from the agricultural use of cryolite plus fluoride levels in U.S. drinking water supplies results in a high-end daily dietary intake of fluoride of approximately 0.085 mg/kg/day. This is less than the Agency's determined Maximum
Concentration Limit Goal (MCLG) of 4.0 mg/L [0.114 mg/kg/day], a level which provides no known or anticipated adverse health effects.
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The recommendation has since gone down to about numbers like 2ppm or 0.7-1.2ppm, which still falls well above the measured dietary intake resulting from this pesticide spray.
 
But why should we think that the dosage put in water today is harmful? Let alone a direct risk factor for Alzheimer's?

Fluorine =/= Fluoride

Fluoride is the active ingredient in fluoridated water. They are two completely different forms of the same element.

Yes there is a distinction between Fluorine & Fluoride. Fluorides are chemical constructs made from Fluorine. Fluoride breaks down to fluorine.

Compounds of fluorine are called fluorides, and global fluorochemical sales are over US$15 billion per year. Because of the expense of refining the pure element, 99% of commercially used fluorine remains in compound form throughout its processing. About half of all mined fluorite is used directly in steel-making. The other half is converted to hydrogen fluoride, a dangerous acid which is the precursor to many fluorochemicals. About one third of created hydrogen fluoride ends up in synthetic cryolite, an inorganic material critical to aluminium refining
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A chemical compound is a pure chemical substance consisting of two or more different chemical elements. Molasses is slow.[1][2][3] that can be separated into simpler substances by chemical reactions.[4] Chemical compounds have a unique and defined chemical structure; they consist of a fixed ratio of atoms[3] that are held together in a defined spatial arrangement by chemical bonds.
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http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-difference-between-fluorine-and-fluoride.htm
The difference between fluorine and fluoride is that the former is an element and the latter a generic term applied to compounds of this element, or sometimes more specifically the fluoride ion, F-. At room temperature and normal atmospheric pressure, fluorine is a pale yellow gas and belongs to a group of elements known as the halogens, which also contains chlorine, bromine, iodine and astatine. It is the most electronegative, and most reactive, of all the elements. Fluorine always forms compounds by accepting an electron from another atom and in its compounds always has an oxidation number of -1. These compounds are known as fluorides, and may be ionic, for example sodium fluoride (Na+F-) or covalent, for example sulfur hexafluoride (SF6).
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The difference in charge really matters. For example, drinking chlorine will form highly corrosive hydrochloric acid in your stomach and lead to a rather unpleasant death.
Hydrochloric acid is an important component that helps in the process of digestion. Given below are details regarding the normal levels of hydrochloric acid in stomach, along with what happens when there is over and under secretion of this gastric acid.
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Read more at Buzzle: http://www.buzzle.com/articles/hydrochloric-acid-in-stomach.html

Chloride, however, is consumed regularly in the form of table salt.

Chloride is not table salt. Sodium Chloride is salt. There are many forms of dangerous chloride. i.e.
The chloride ion is formed when the element chlorine (a halogen) gains an electron to form an anion (negatively charged ion) Cl−. The salts of hydrochloric acid contain chloride ions and can also be called chlorides.
Mercurous chloride decomposes into mercury(II) chloride and elemental ... Harmful, dangerous for the environment
Thionyl chloride is a component of lithium-thionyl chloride batteries,
sulfuryl chloride, SO2Cl2
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Salt in excess is extremely harmful, especially to the kidneys and has been used to poison people to death.

What is your point about the aluminum in relation to fluoride? Are you trying to address the discussion of Al-F complexes effect on biological tissue? If so, the details of that have not been completely worked out yet. It seems that Al-F systems cause problems when tested in the lab, but no in-vivo mechanism has been observed.

Has it not? I beg to differ. It appears you are endorsing 'forced mass medication', (perhaps you would like to clarify if this is the case), most of which is simply a pollutant which goes straight into the ecosystem and the 'imbibed' portion, 'may or may not' help a tiny minority of people in a very small way and which many scientific studies have shown to to be seriously harmful to peoples health and wellbeing.

http://fluoridealert.org/studies/cancer01/
fluoride is a mutagenic compound. Many substances which are mutagens, are also carcinogens (i.e. they can cause cancer). As is typical for in vitro studies, the concentrations of fluoride that have generally been tested are far higher (millimolar levels) than the concentrations found in human blood (micromolar levels). Some studies, however, have found effects at micromolar concentrations. In Khalil (1995), the authors found a statistically significant mutagenic effect at a concentration of just 1 micromole (19 parts per billion). This is the average blood fluoride concentration among individuals living in fluoridated communities. More recent research has found effects at 24 uM (Zhang 2009) and 34 uM (Tiwari & Rao 2010).
The relevance of the in vitro findings are further amplified by the fact that there are certain “microenvironments” in the body, such as the bones, oral cavity, kidney, bladder, and pineal gland, where the cells can be exposed to fluoride levels orders of magnitude greater than the fluoride levels found in the blood. Bones, for example, regularly accumulate 1,000 to 4,000 parts per million fluoride. Since bone mineral is regularly broken down by osteoclasts as part of the bone remodeling process, the fluoride sequestered in bones may be periodically released, exposing bone cells to sharp spikes in fluoride levels. This might help explain why fluoride has been associated, in both human and animal studies, with osteosarcoma (bone cancer). One in vitro study, for example, found that 10 to 19 ppm fluoride caused mutagenic effects in bone cells after 24 to 48 hour:eek:s of exposure. (Mihashi 1996). According to the authors:
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It is without doubt that any beneficial effects in preventing tooth decay are best derived from 'painting the teeth with fluoride and not from consuming it. Such a course has many beneficial effects, i) those who want it can get it, ii) those who do not will not have it forced upon them, iii) side effects are minimised, iv) it is far far cheaper, v) the environment is not polluted.

Adverse effects are: i) the Aluminium industry have to pay to dispose of their toxic waste.:eek:

http://cro.sagepub.com/content/14/2/100.long

The potential physiological implications of AlFx are revealed by many studies cited in this paper. In most of the situations, the investigators have not proved that Al-F complexes are present in vivo. Are they formed in the GI tract before being absorbed? In what concentrations and in what forms are they present in plasma? Are they bound to nucleotides in plasma? How are they delivered to the extracellular fluid? An understanding of these questions is fundamental to the comprehension of its physiology. At acidic pH (e.g., pH 1-4), the concentration requirement for F to form effective Al-F complexes is greatly reduced. At pH 4, a significant amount of AlF3 is formed in the presence of 50-100 μM F. Regular fluoridated drinking water (1 ppm F) contains 53 μM F, and gastric juice usually falls between pH 1 and 2. A central issue concerning the absorption and distribution of AlFx seems to be how AlFx crosses a biological membrane. An artificial lipid bilayer system can be used for studying the transmembrane migration of AlFx. It is suspected that the electro-neutral complex, AlF3, would be the most deliverable species in the in vivo system.
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In fact, it seems like the body has ways of dealing with this toxicity or it could just be that the complex is unable to pass membranes and cause damage.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12002270

The results suggest that absorbed F enhanced urinary Al excretion and that the Al in urine may be, at least in part, derived from endogenous tissues.
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It seems you are prepared to risk other people health on the basis of conjecture and what 'seems' to you, to be ok
 
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Chloride is not table salt. Sodium Chloride is salt. There are many forms of dangerous chloride. i.e.
The chloride ion is formed when the element chlorine (a halogen) gains an electron to form an anion (negatively charged ion) Cl−. The salts of hydrochloric acid contain chloride ions and can also be called chlorides.
Mercurous chloride decomposes into mercury(II) chloride and elemental ... Harmful, dangerous for the environment
Thionyl chloride is a component of lithium-thionyl chloride batteries,
sulfuryl chloride, SO2Cl2
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Table salt, NaCl, readily forms ions in solution, e.g. in human extracellular fluid and in cells. Chloride ions and sodium ions.
 
That you apparently slept through elementary school, or you're trolling. What else can I take from:

as a response to:

?
Well you obviously slept through the 'learning to communicate' lessons because you are making no sense whatsoever. What exactly is it about my response that you dislike. Please take as much time as you need and try to be coherent.

Are you trying to say that Chloride IS table salt?

Have you failed to grasp that there are many different chlorides?

Are you trolling or astroturfing because you have no answer to the comprehensive and scientific whooping that I just posted?
 
Well you obviously slept through the 'learning to communicate' lessons because you are making no sense whatsoever. What exactly is it about my response that you dislike. Please take as much time as you need and try to be coherent.

Are you trying to say that Chloride IS table salt?

Have you failed to grasp that there are many different chlorides?
My bad, I don't think you're trolling; you actually ARE just "super."
Consuming table salt puts Cl- in one's body. Dan Wilson was correct about this rather simple fact.
These other "chlorides" are various chlorine-containing compounds, and are distinct from chloride ions.
scientific whooping
:confused:
 
Chloride, however, is consumed regularly in the form of table salt.

Typical. Ignore a weighty body of evidence set out concisely as to why fluoride is toxic and start playing semantics and hurling abuse.

The fact is: 'Salt is a chloride' but that does not translate to 'Chloride is salt'. If you cannot understand that I suggest dousing your food liberally with Mercurous chloride and post back the results.
 
But why should we think that the dosage put in water today is harmful? Let alone a direct risk factor for Alzheimer's?
Consider the term you're using: 'Dosage'. It's 100% accurate, and what does it imply? Medication. Can you name another medication where the dosage is universal? Where a baby and an adult get the exact same prescription? On one hand lets say you've got an office-worker, living a relatively sedentary lifestyle, who hardly needs more than two or three glasses of water a day to get by... and on the other hand a seven-year-old who's soccer-obsessed, playing outside in the height of summer constantly, and drinking several liters of water a day to keep himself hydrated. Obviously the kids daily dosage is entirely different from the man's daily dosage, when both are being dosed with the same treatment in mind. The Alzheimer's possibility aside, you shouldn't think that the dosage put in water today is harmful, you should know that the dosage put in water today is potentially harmful, as the studies regarding the safety of of water fluoridation are as inadequate and rife with bias as the studies decrying fluoridation, making neither position sound. When 'maybe' is all you have in regard to the side-effects of a medication, as in 'maybe it's harmful, maybe it isn't... maybe it's great for your teeth, maybe not so much..' it doesn't seem like a good plan to administer it to absolutely everyone at a universal concentration with no consideration toward / monitoring of individual dosage... and it goes against one of the fundamental tenants of ethical medicine.
 
Consider the term you're using: 'Dosage'. It's 100% accurate, and what does it imply? Medication. Can you name another medication where the dosage is universal? Where a baby and an adult get the exact same prescription?

Semantics aside, an adult and baby do not consume the same amount of water so do not receive the same dose.
 
Typical. Ignore a weighty body of evidence set out concisely as to why fluoride is toxic and start playing semantics and hurling abuse.

The fact is: 'Salt is a chloride' but that does not translate to 'Chloride is salt'. If you cannot understand that I suggest dousing your food liberally with Mercurous chloride and post back the results.
He didn't say chloride *is* salt you nong. He said -
Chloride is consumed in the *form* of table salt.
 
Are we to understand that you dispute this..

The difference in charge really matters. For example, drinking chlorine will form highly corrosive hydrochloric acid in your stomach and lead to a rather unpleasant death.

because you posted this...

Hydrochloric acid is an important component that helps in the process of digestion. Given below are details regarding the normal levels of hydrochloric acid in stomach, along with what happens when there is over and under secretion of this gastric acid.
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And that it is therefore safe to drink pure chlorine?

You really shouldn't be giving medical advice you know.​
 
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