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  1. Lode

    Lode Member

    An article appeared in The Telegraph reporting that a whole American style town was build recently for the US army to train in. According to commander Col. John P. Petkosek it was build as a training ground "to be ready for what comes next." He does not specify what that "next" might be. "This is a place where you can be creative and come up with solutions to problems we don't even know we have yet" he extends.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@38.1319426,-77.3047326,1209m/data=!3m1!1e3 (http://archive.is/sTdKw)
    [​IMG]

    Original Army Press Release: "Asymmetric Warfare Training Center opens at Fort A.P. Hill"
    http://www.army.mil/article/118796/Asymmetric_Warfare_Training_Center_opens_at_Fort_A_P__Hill/ (http://archive.is/ADpfd)

    (Site plans attached)


    The Telegraph: "US army builds fake city to shoot at during training"
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ds-fake-city-to-shoot-at-during-training.html (http://archive.is/IPsXM)

    It's not a new thing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_warfare#Urban_warfare_training
    This report has been picked up by Infowars and commented on under the title "Breaking: US Army Trains for Martial Law In US"
    http://www.infowars.com/breaking-us-army-trains-for-martial-law-in-us/ (http://archive.is/VD8as)

    The arguments seem strong in support of the suggestion that a possible martial law situation might be ensuing, especially related to gun control measures in view of other very recent reports:

    (CT Gun Owners discussion moved to: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/connecticut-gun-owners-refusing-to-register-their-guns.3111/ )

    The point is not so much who claims it, but whether the claim that martial law in the US is now being prepared for in this training facility is bunkum.

    [Admin: the above post has been modified to incorporate some material from the thread below]
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2014
  2. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    While there is no real indication it's specifically for martial law, some training in martial law procedures has to happen regardless doesn't it - or do they just say 'martial law' and everyone knows what to do?

    This sort of training will always be happening somewhere and it will always be seen as sign that martial law is imminent - it's a perception thing that is hard to debunk one way or the other.

    I did find this detail from a year old article...
    I don't know if this is new and unprecedented though - the concept of martial law has existed for a long time.

    ...

    There's a persistent belief that 'the man' is going to call down martial law on the population just for the hell of it, because citizens are such troublesome things they'd be better off without, but that belief is based on an emotional apocalyptic fantasy, I can't see any rational reason to really think that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
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  3. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2014
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  4. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    It seems not unlikely that martial law will be one of the scenarios they train for in this facility.
     
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  5. As seeing first hand the events of the 1992 LA Riots I would hope that they would plan a lot better than what was in place at that time. It was a crazy time.
     
  6. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    I just wonder what urban environment Infowars thinks it should be built to represent especially given the withdrawal from Afghanistan has been known for some time. From looking at the facilities it looks like they have considered worldwide urban situations going back decades and integrated as many as possible. I don't know about the US but in the UK a training facility like this would be made avaiable to civilian services as well.

    However one must think that the military has gone to a great deal of effort and expense just to train up a few soldiers to enforce martial law. Anyway time will tell I guess.
     
  7. NoParty

    NoParty Senior Member

  8. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    It's training for urban warfare. Other countries, like Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, and every other country in the world have urban areas.

    The subway carriages most likely carry the same logo as the Washington DC subway because they were acquired as surplus from there.

    Since there's zero evidence this is to trains for martial law specifically in the US, and the "fake city" is small and representative of any city, I'm going to make this one as "debunked".

    Infowars claiming something without evidence is not something that requires counter evidence. It's enough to note that there's no actual evidence.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
  9. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Some larger images of the site from the video:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    There are several other building shown in video and photographs. However those are real buildings in a site a mile to the West: training classrooms, arms storage facilities, an indoor range, and other training facilities.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
  10. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Regarding the subway cars:
    [​IMG]

    These are retired Washington DC Metro 1000 Series Rohr cars, the oldest operating cars on the DC metro.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Metro_rolling_stock

    Specifically it's cars 1090 and 1091, which were involved in a derailment, Aug 30th 2013, as they were on their way to the scrapyard after being damaged in fire.
    http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=152401
    http://washingtonexaminer.com/railcar-fire-shuts-down-metro-at-silver-spring/article/2529701
    [​IMG]
     
  11. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    The subway is touch of pure genius.
     
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  12. Mackdog

    Mackdog Active Member

    They have these fake cities in other countries too. Like the SOFEX city in Jordan where they train for tactical situations. It seems like its bigger and more complex that the one in Virginia.
    I just watched this documentary the other day. Skip to 4:45 for the footage of the fake city where they train.



    Also, I remember seeing old videos of martial law training that were made 15 to 20 years ago and martial law hasn't happened yet. I usually just ignore the people who keep crying wolf about things like this.
     
  13. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  14. Mark Barrington

    Mark Barrington Active Member

    Didn't know you were a trainspotter, Mick. It kind of fits.
     
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  15. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    In Britain they simply kicked out the inhabitants of an actual village to save time:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imber
     
  16. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I'm not. I'm just good at Google. I hesitated to post these, as I don't want people to think I'm a trainspotter :)
     
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  17. Landru

    Landru Moderator Staff Member

    In the US they're called foamers.
     
  18. Jazzy

    Jazzy Closed Account

    Too late for that. :)
     
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  19. Lode

    Lode Member

    Thank you all for contributing so fast at putting my worries about this issue mostly at rest. I say "mostly" as I haven't seen yet how the non-registry of assault weapons issue is going to be reacted to further on.

    Not that any of it would affect me in Amsterdam, far away from the "crime" scene... :D

    I'm amazed at how much detailed info some of you found and posted so quickly! Especially Mick.

    Thanks much again. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
  20. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    You're welcome.

    I think the non-registering assault weapons is a similar non-story. Different topic though. Actually, I'm going to excise it into another thread.

    (CT Gun Owners discussion moved to: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/connecticut-gun-owners-refusing-to-register-their-guns.3111/ )
     
  21. Lode

    Lode Member

    You sure are on top of these things! :cool:
     
  22. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    Just for interest Imber was not the only village. In Norfolk 6 villages were cleared to form the Stanford Training Area.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_Training_Area
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2014
  23. Mark Barrington

    Mark Barrington Active Member

    One of the issues in the American revolution was the British policy of quartering troops in private residences. The US Constitution prohibits the practice, so I doubt it would ever happen here.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartering_Acts
     
  24. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I think though that eminent domain might still be a legal path to the same end result. And note that's peacetime - the UK instance were in wartime.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain#Constitution
    Of course there's no foreseeable need for such a thing. Vastly simpler to build their own to spec, like this.
     
  25. Mark Barrington

    Mark Barrington Active Member

    OK, I probably misread the above posts. I thought the Brits had just cleared out the citizens to take over a village temporarily for training, and returned it to them after they were done. Obviously, for the purposes of training, a real town would be preferable to a fake one, but the differences are not significant enough to worry about if the training village is well-designed.

    Edit: completely misread. Shouldn't try to clean house and Metabunk at the same time.
     
  26. Alhazred The Sane

    Alhazred The Sane Senior Member

    There were marines here in Helsinki a few weeks ago, being trained by Finnish commandos in urban manouvers in sub-zero conditions. I managed to walk smack into the middle of it while I was on my way to the store for some beers.

    http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/finland...aking-winter-warfare-training-in-finland.html
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
  27. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The DoD does conduct some exercises in non-military areas:

    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/04/27/tinl-a27.html
     
  28. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

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  29. Soulfly

    Soulfly Banned Banned

  30. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    I went to Copehill when it was still shiney. The meticulous detail was awesome. Having been to Germany a few times the realism of the place was impressive down down to road signs and even German style toilets. It was one of the best FIBUA experiences especially on one exercise with German speaking "civilians". We used it before going to Bosnia as well.

    The necessity for training facilities like this can never be over rated.
     
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  31. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    There's a fake Afghan village in Norfolk, UK:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/welcome-to-afghanistan-no-norfolk-1919462.html
    [​IMG]

    I think the reason the A.P. Hill training ground is raising suspicion is that is not specifically a foreign location. Of course it's not really a US location either, just a generic urban environment. And it's rather telling that one of the elements that occupies the largest area is a Mosque. And it's a soccer field, not an American Football or baseball field.
     
  32. derwoodii

    derwoodii Senior Member

    Each week these Fema death camps and pending US Martial law claims are made and each week nothing becomes of them

    Whats more alarming are the posted Molon labe comments within the articles that reveals a greater real home town problem than the hypothetical toy town here
     
  33. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Molon labe. New word of the day. I'd never heard that before.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molon_labe
     
  34. Presumably they would also use that kind of set up to practice evacuation scenarios too wouldn't they? It seem to me that a martial law event would not be the sum total of exercises rehearsed. In addition to that if there was going to be some kind of civilian culling event going on, couldn't they just use existing facilities? Surely it wouldn't take too much rehearsal time to show a trained soldier how to take out a housewife wielding a handgun. This looks to be aimed at an urban war zone/disaster type environment.
     
  35. jvnk08

    jvnk08 Active Member

    Is the concern here that it doesn't look middle eastern enough or something? Funny how InfoWars makes a point out of the lack of a Mosque(even though there is one). What do we expect troops to be training in if not environments that are similar to where they might be deployed? As Mick points out this seems to be a pretty generic urban environment, nothing about it invokes "American" to me(the people saying otherwise would probably know this if they had ever set foot out of the country in the last 20-30 years, seeing as most urban spaces in developed countries look like this). I'd expect any developed country's military to have at least one such facility. It doesn't have to be training for an invasion or "taking over" the space either, such a place would be immensely useful for emergency response training of any kind.

    Interesting sidenote, Jordan has one of the largest such facilities in the world, known as the King Abdullah II Special Operations Training Center.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KASOTC

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/32°01'55.2"N 35°58'30.0"E/@32.032,35.975,5320m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0?hl=en
     
  36. NoParty

    NoParty Senior Member

    I live in an area where wannabe badasses wear "Molon labe" T-shirts…ever since the movie 300
    a bit similar to an 18 year-old getting a tat in Japanese that he can repeatedly explain to the unenlightened…:rolleyes:
    Screen Shot 2014-02-16 at 12.27.42 PM.
     
  37. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    It seems to be quite a thing in the more intense gun subcultures.
    [​IMG]

    And I'm not putting this up as mockery. I think it's important to understand why people get caught up in stories like this. Why they take the Alex Jones spin seriously. It's a huge part of their identity, basically a religion. Now lots of people think they are being hyperbolic - but for them it's a passionately held belief that guns equal freedom, and government control of guns equals tyranny. Many of the people involved are quite intelligent and well spoken, but with just a radically different world view to other people.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
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  38. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    or quarantine scenarios too.
     
  39. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Just randomly turned on Alex Jones Live, and he was complaining that this Infowars article by Paul Joseph Watson was "too journalistic", and that it was giving the impression that there were two sides of the argument when really everyone knows the facility is only for practicing taking away our guns.

    http://www.infowars.com/u-s-army-builds-fake-city-in-virginia-to-practice-military-occupation/
    He was probably a bit annoyed that Watson's Infowars article (above) mentioned there was a mosque, whereas the earlier Infowars article (below) said it was a church. (There's actually a church and a mosque)
    http://www.infowars.com/breaking-us-army-trains-for-martial-law-in-us/
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
  40. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I've attached site plans to the OP. CS-102 is the urban area. CS-101 is the training and admin area.

    Everything is labeled, but you have to zoom in.

    https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/cs-101_overall_layout_plan-pdf.6089/
    https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/cs-102_sheet_layout_plan-pdf.6088/

    Source: https://secure.smartbidnet.com/External/PublicPlanRoom.aspx?Id=24285&e=1

    Here's an easier to view file. Still needs zooming:
    https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/cs-102_sheet_layout_plan-crop-png.6091/
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
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