1. MH370 speculation has become excessive recently. Metabunk is not a forum for creating theories by speculation. It's a forum for examining claims, and seeing if they hold up. Please respect this and keep threads on-topic. There are many other forums where speculation is welcome.
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  1. cogmios

    cogmios New Member

    "I don't really understand what you're talking about"

    I compare the company references of projects they did. I assume when a company is hired in the Ukraine to find water in 2003 based on this technology that they would only hire one company to do this and not two ... (so the reference mentioned on georesonance (see references) (they are clickable) of ukraine 2003 is , my assumption, the same as the one from Gokh, finding water using georesonance). And the latter is claiming he is the inventor, hence the source " he had refined the system so that specific type of photography could occur from the air"

    p.s. the link you provide is one of a gazilion likewise, therefore my link with the story from 1999 without the "ancient/energy/mysterious/bla" ,or for the link to the patent by the author himself instead of a blog article: http://www.vitaly-gokh.narod.ru/gokhe3.htm
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2014
  2. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    I meant I don't understand any of the techno stuff. just sharing a "link" between the two.
     
  3. moderateGOP

    moderateGOP Active Member

    Did you not read the story where the Australian Government said it was false? I'll post again for reference. http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/29/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/

    From the same article:

    "The company is not declaring this is MH370, however it should be investigated," GeoResonance said in a statement.

    Classic CT pull back.
     
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  4. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    This thread would be a great place to share those data if you have them.



    Maybe you can provide some evidence?

    This thread is not about that.
     
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  5. InterpreDemon

    InterpreDemon Member

    Other than Mr. Dorsch, I cannot find the name of a single customer who contracted this work in the past or evidence of any subsequent specific project that actually leveraged the results of their services... for example a municipal water project or oil field. I was not aware that water was scarce in Ukraine, I'm sure it's everywhere as long as they get rain, which they do, though doubtless the environmental alarmists probably predict Ukraine and all of Europe will be completely desiccated within twenty years unless we start taxing Americans more for wasting energy and water with their dishwashers, cleaning their SUVs, keeping their lawns green or marveling at the Bellagio fountains.. How about finding water in Sudan? After the wall fell their were numerous scammers that claimed Russian technologies, particularly with metals and titanium alloys, in fact I recall one offshore stock scam that was going to corner the market for bicycle frames and lacrosse sticks with their amazing "Scandium" alloy (which I nicknamed "Scamdium"), the company name was Ashurst and they scammed investors and shareholders out of tens of millions, among other things "investing" millions of public offering funds into phony loans to entities run by their co-conspirators. The moment I see "technology" and "Ukraine" in the same paragraph I instantly become a native of Missouri, however I am always impressed by the stones these guys have when it comes to making their claims public, especially in the internet age.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2014
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  6. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Some relevant links via Slashdot:
    http://beta.slashdot.org/submission/3526111
     
  7. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/30/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
     
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  8. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Given the general agreement from NASA's satellite imaging experts, as well as the other factors discussed about, I'm marking this "Debunked".
     
  9. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    Wow, this is a pretty ethically corrupt move on their part then, like false psychics saying they know where the missing child is. It will either bring so much scrutiny to their claims that they will fold, or just enough publicity to snare some future customers.
    And this is the difference between the current search position and this claim...
    Show some testable physics and independent verification then.
     
  10. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    you may indeed be right.

    on the other hand, I'm no longer surprised at what lengths people will go to to believe their own 'expertise'.

    The Armenia, though, is a pretty bold statement to put on a new website (2012). 7 years and no even remote verification? These guys might actually believe their own 'science'. ; /

    who knows..
     
  11. Bobby Obber

    Bobby Obber New Member

    The only point I don't understand is this. If their "science" is mystical and magical why would they hold themselves up to the inevitable ridicule that will follow?
     
  12. txt29

    txt29 Active Member

    Do you have any source for these claims? I can't believe anyone could be taken seriously for a second if he claimed such evident nonsense. If it was really themselves who told it, then it is 100% clear they are crooks (and very stupid ones), but if it was written by a journalist, it could be just his false interpretation, which would not be unusual.
     
  13. Lee Swordy

    Lee Swordy New Member

    Their ploy is quite smart. They know anyone with real knowledge who looks into their shady corporate veneer and voodoo science will dismiss them offhand, which the search team wisely did, and they will never have to explain themselves. Keep in mind these guys aren't trying to sucker in Exxon and BP, who have real science knowledge, they are looking for the little guys in Oklahoma who want to believe they might have oil in their back yard. By the time people wise up and launch a lawsuit they will have closed shop and started up with a new scam.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2014
  14. InterpreDemon

    InterpreDemon Member

    The more fantastic the story the less likely folks will believe anybody would have the audacity to make it up, which is how these scammers operate. The aforementioned Ashurst Technology is a good example, and they sucked in lots of folks. The company went bankrupt despite a non-stop string of fantastic press releases:

    1. Indalco Signs Licence Agreement For Ashurst's Aluminium-Scandiumweld-Wire
    2. Ashurst And Easton Sign Commercialisation Contract
    3. Ashurst Involved In New Magnesium Project In Republic Of Congo
    4. Ashurst Reports Progress With Ukrainian Gold Project
    5. Ashurst Responds To Press Release By Morgan Grenfell Asset Management
    6. Ashurst Signs Agreement With Raufoss Hydro Automotive Research Centre
    7. Ashurst Signs Contract With Aerospace Investment Castings Manufacturer
    8. Ashurst Signs Development Contract With McDonnell Douglas Aerospace
    9. Ashurst Signs License Agreement With STX And Receives Order For Scandium Lacrosse Sticks
    10. Ashurst Subsidiary Completes Agreements With Ukrzoloto To Develop Gold Mines In Ukraine
    11. Ashurst To Be Involved In The Development Of Ukrainian Gold Mining Industry
    12. Ashurst's Government Services Division Awarded Contract With United Technologies To Develop New Porous Titanium
    13. Former Head Of US Federal Aviation Administration Joins Ashurst
    Note the Ukranian connections... I had forgotten about that but it is sweet in light of the current topic, is it not? They even had something going in Congo, just like GeoResonance! There must be somebody there who has phantom companies and identities for rent. I often wonder whether these con men, just like doctors or car dealers, have annual conventions they attend in order to network with each other and review the latest scam technologies and product offerings... perhaps a hotel in Andorra where they meet and connect with exhibitors offering offshore banking, safe haven jurisdictions, materially defunct but "regulatorially" maintained publicly traded shell entities for sale, needing only a good story to pump their stock from .00001 to a buck, etc.

    Oh well... some more laughs:

    http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1997-02-19/business/1997050003_1_scandium-ashurst-bats
    http://articles.baltimoresun.com/19...5_1_ashurst-wilcoxon-deutsche-morgan-grenfell

    In the end, a entrepreneur/professor from Canada, Steve Gedeon, was called in to deal with the departure of Mr. Wilcoxon, and I recall reading a blog post he wrote describing the situation he walked into... all cash in some 126 bank accounts missing, other millions missing, rent and payroll due. Mr. Wilcoxon's escapades continued with newer and more fantastic adventures, picking up many "admirers" to the point where a web site honoring him can be found at http://firebentonwilcoxon.com/

    "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - J. Goebbels
     
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  15. Lee Swordy

    Lee Swordy New Member

    it is on the Explore page of the parent company transcomplex.uk.com. Since the site is apparently poorly translated from Ukrainian it requires a little persistence to understand what they are getting at. The Patents page has descriptions of the patents that they and GeoResonance list as the foundation of their work. Note that these patents are not registered in the U.S., so they are not protected in the U.S. If I had invented a miracle Star Trek scanner I would want it protected everywhere, unless the Ukrainian patents were just window dressing.
     
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  16. txt29

    txt29 Active Member

    I suspect that they either hope to defraud investors before they are ridiculed (and it may take weeks or months), or they tell themselves that there is no such thing as bad publicity. How many people knew about GeoResonance Plc two days ago? Practically nobody. Today, there are tens of millions of people who know about them. Even if they just sell their brand and the domain name, they may get rich enough to make it worth of the work they had with the staged photos.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2014
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  17. jamesrav

    jamesrav New Member

    "then they expose the stack to radiation in a nuclear reactor" - I recall an article a while back about some smart kid who 'made his own nuclear reactor' so the term 'nuclear reactor' is thrown around pretty flippantly nowadays ... but I hope they are doing this in the Ukraine downwind from the US.
     
  18. txt29

    txt29 Active Member

    I think they use Chernobyl's reactor, so it is quite safe. In fact they probably just take a ride on the tourist bus making trips through Chernobyl, and stick the photos on the wind screen. When they come back, the magic is already done - the photos are converted into mineral maps.
     
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  19. Lee Swordy

    Lee Swordy New Member

    They show a picture of guys in lab coats standing around a yellow containment vessel, but it is probably just some stock image. In reality there is no reactor, the process consists of a guy airbrushing a Google Earth image with Photoshop.
     
  20. InterpreDemon

    InterpreDemon Member

    That's it! Chernobyl. It all fits perfectly. Not only are they using the entombed reactor to process their plates printed on an OfficeJet printer, but they have revived the infamous (to Ham operators) "woodpecker" over-the-horizon radar array nearby and reconfigured it to set up a global gradient field to topple the nuclei already aligned by Earth's magnetic field, listen for the resultant spin-echo signals with their secret satellite, do a bit of Fourier transformation and presto... global MRI scanner. Not the most sophisticated solution but certainly adhering to the Russian engineering philosophy, "'Better' is the enemy of 'good enough'". As Spock said, admiring the Iotian tommy-guns, "Crude, but effective."

    http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/03files/Russian_Bases_Woodpecker_Duga_Radar_Ukraine.html
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2014
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  21. Andy

    Andy Member

    Last edited: Apr 30, 2014
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  22. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    Deirdre dug up some links to one of the board members who does appear to be in the energy industry.




    There's several linked-in profiles for David Pope and Peter Fox in Australia, but none that are obviously mining/exploration connected.

    And another link to the company registration.
    So they may have been active and in existence before their website.
    But still it needs something of substance to confirm they're not just a high-tech dowsing company.


    (from the above article)
    So, 'existing multi-spectral images'. What are they and where do they come from? Or is this just the belief that ordinary images are 'multi-spectral'?
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
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  23. Andy

    Andy Member

    Maybe someone should invite them to participate here.
    The site does have a "Contact Form"
    :rolleyes:
     
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  24. Vittel

    Vittel New Member

  25. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    The information in https://web.archive.org/web/20060623225119/http://www.research-centre.org/analysis.php
    gives an overview of the kind of techniques that were being used several years ago. It talks of using multi-spectral images to find mineral deposits based on landform and geography. So in the context of mineral exploration I suppose the phrase
    "Our remote sensing proprietory technology will help us process existing multispectral images and identify these deposits if they exist,"
    has some precedence, but how would that work underwater to see a plane? I don't see how it could.
     
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  26. vooke

    vooke Active Member

    Cut GeoResonance some slack. All the non-debunked science has ended up with jellyfish carcases and Tsunami debris. GeoResonance is not following hunches. How much would it cost to verify those claims? That part of the waters is quite shallow. The biggest threat to science is the PhDs who can't stomach opposition. They are busy laughing the company off yet they have nothing to show.

    We can speculate here all day about GR technology but I think the ultimate debunking would be getting to the Andaman. Otherwise you are all armchair experts with totally nothing to aid the search and scorn for those trying
     
  27. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    I don't know anyone claiming to be expert here, just saying the claim seems very dubious. There isn't scorn for those trying to search for the plane, but there is for anyone who would use the disaster to promote a tech scam. It's still undecided as to whether these guys are legit or not, but it is hard to find any proof of their techniques working or even a proper description of what it is.
    Yes a simple check of the precise location would be the best test, but we're just people on a forum looking for further information on a claim.
     
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  28. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    Excerpt from their latest press release.
    It's the quantum's, see.
     
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  29. txt29

    txt29 Active Member

    Various references from the website of GeoResonance and their partners point indeed back to Vitaly Gokh, the dubious Ukrainian scientist (now probably Russian, since Crimea was annexed) who claims to have found pyramids and remnants of Atlantis on Crimea. He is also the promoter of the "hollow Earth" theory. This website seems to be his current platform (or the platform of his fans perhaps): http://www.gokh.net/ You'll need to use Google Translate if you can't read Russian, but already the pictures on the main page with the hollow Earth may be revealing. There is also a diagram for his method of "geo-diagnostics". He also seems to claim that the Moon's nucleus is made of platinum and gold, and Mars is 70% composed of diamonds, cymberlites, platinum and gold (http://www.vitaly-gokh.narod.ru/gokhe1.htm). And this page describes his geo-diagnostics in English: http://www.vitaly-gokh.narod.ru/gokhe3.htm And, yeah, I forgot - the pyramids were built 65 millions years ago, according to Gokh.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
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  30. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    Could you post the references that link him to them?
     
  31. txt29

    txt29 Active Member

    Frankly told I am lazy going again through all the crap, but there are literally dozens of Ukrainian-based companies offering the same services, and having different variations of the same text on their websites (GeoResonance, GeoNMR, SPBU, GeoInformation, transcomplex.uk, Gokh.ru, vitaly-gokh.ru, gokh.net, ...) . Some of the websites are no more available (you can still find them at Archive.org though). There are even many more of them that have Russian content only, so you won't find them easily with Google (try Yandex.com and use Cyrillic). Some of the links are above in this thread (see for example the post of "Vittel"). All of the websites contain the same (or similar) dubious claims, and often refer back to the Sevastopol National University of Nuclear Energy. Strangely, on the website of the Sevastopol University (in Russian language only), I did not find any references to any of the persons, companies, or scientists mentioned by GeoResonance and the other their variants (and yes, I searched in Cyrillic too). There does not even seem to be any reference to any geophysical department, or geophysical courses there.

    So, although I am not aware of any direct reference by GeoResonance to Vitaly Gokh, all these companies present the same schema, and point to the same places. GeoResonance tells their technology is owned by the Sevastopol National University of Nuclear Energy, just like some of the other websites claim to have their technology from there too. So either the Sevastopol National University of Nuclear Energy breeds an unbelievable number of experts in remote geophysical sensing (without possibly having any geophysical department), each having their own unique, miraculous, and patented method, or it comes all from the same source. Possibly the same criminal group masking their identity behind different names, and in different lands (besides Australia, and Ukraine, I saw also variants in the UK, Russia, and I bet they have more branches elsewhere too).
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
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  32. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    Do you have any evidence that GeoResonance is actually trying to aid the search?
     
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  33. Joe S

    Joe S New Member

    I commend the intellectual rigor brought to this thread, its refreshing. I agree, the technological claim is beyond specious. I also find the use of this tragedy by GeoRes unconscionable. The question of course is why did they make such a bold fish tale?

    One theory is the possibility GeoRes could have better information than the market. It is possible that they have either prior knowledge of a wreck or more nefariously have dumped a metal object at the claimed location. If a third party comes in and confirms they see something based on their claim, regardless if it is MH370, it will serve as market validation for GeoRes and a confidence data point for them to promote and exploit to the unwary. That's the only resolution I can make of this story.
     
  34. cogmios

    cogmios New Member

    " variations of the same text on their websites (GeoResonance, GeoNMR, SPBU, GeoInformation, transcomplex.uk, Gokh.ru, vitaly-gokh.ru, gokh.net, ...) ."

    assumption: we will see much more in the press the coming years to be debunked from this network of people and companies ...........................
     
  35. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I notice they have placed the location on a steep slope - which opens up the possibility of claiming that there was "something" there, but that it was swept away by a landslide.
     
  36. InterpreDemon

    InterpreDemon Member

    "... together with the present level of development of mathematical techniques that take the form of firmware systems based on fifth-generation computers"

    What a load of crap. Developing their own machine and assembly code as well, I see. Move over Intel. I'm telling you, the next step will be what is called a reverse merger, whereby an inactive but legally intact public corporation (usually a OTC/Pink Sheet bankrupt entity where all the public shares have been acquired by a few individuals and all the required filings in order to keep the shell listed are maintained) will "acquire" GeoResonance in exchange for millions of its worthless shares, assume the name, then go public with a string of fantastic press releases and pump the share price from a micropenny to a buck.

    In line with the Australian element, think about that GEICO commercial where you see the gecko out on the bay in his sailboat, distant cityscape in the background... then the camera zooms out and you see he is on a radio controlled model running circles in a pond, with some kid at the controls....
     
  37. InterpreDemon

    InterpreDemon Member

    Vooke, why don't you start an exploration fund for a mission to the GeoResonance wreck site? See if you can get Ballard to go out there with a forked stick or something. It's easy to risk the time, money and lives of others from that "armchair", isn't it?

    It really is too bad Art Bell is no longer on the air... we would have had all the ex-black ops "remote viewers", these GeoScammers, John Lear and the UFOlogists, a time traveler or two and a long line of conspiracy kooks every night for five hilarious hours.
     
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  38. txt29

    txt29 Active Member

    This information comes from an anonymous member of a public forum, so its credibility is uncertain, but may be interesting anyway:
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10497586&postcount=791
     
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  39. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  40. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    they probably just hold a patent license.