1. MH370 speculation has become excessive recently. Metabunk is not a forum for creating theories by speculation. It's a forum for examining claims, and seeing if they hold up. Please respect this and keep threads on-topic. There are many other forums where speculation is welcome.
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  1. derwoodii

    derwoodii Senior Member

    [Update by @Mick West, This top post has been updated with information from the thread below]

    The claims of Australian company Georesonance do not hold up because:

    [other updated points from thread]

    • The real-world limitations of the claimed satellite analysis >>>
      and >>>
      and >>>
      and >>>
    • Bangladesh Navy's failure to find anything in the location provided >>>
    • Vitaly Gokh's connection to the enterprise >>>
      and >>>
      and >>>
    • Vitaly Gokh's other pseudo-scientific beliefs >>>

    • List of companies claiming to use the same technique >>>
    Expert Opinion from NASA:
    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/30/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


    Impossibility of detecting copper and fuel:
    [​IMG]

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Original Op Post Follows
    some news thou not good news just more possible ideas and added speculation


    Exploration company believes it may have found MH370
    https://au.news.yahoo.com/sa/a/23036893/exploration-company-believes-it-may-have-found-mh370/

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2014
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  3. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I'm very dubious of this. They claim to analyze satellite images to find particular elements using demilitarized soviet technology.

    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/busin...nd-gas-in-sa-qld/story-e6fredel-1226631746538


    Their web site is very sparse in detail.
    http://georesonance.com/




    [​IMG]

    Under their "Special Projects" page they claim to have located the Armenia ship in 2005:
    [​IMG]

    However there seems to be no real indication that the Armenia was ever actually found.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia_(Soviet_hospital_ship)
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2014
  4. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    In this interview from 2013, it seems like the Armenia was not found:
    http://www.ukrinform.ua/eng/news/ar...ea_keeps_great_secrets_of_civilization_296355


    Which make the Georesonance claims look rather dubious. None of the stuff on their web site is verifiable, and the entire site looks rather unfinished and knocked together.
     
  5. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    When did they acquire their tech? The newspaper article is from 2013, so maybe they didn't have access to what they use now?
     
  6. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Doesn't really matter, as they claim they found the ship on 2005, but it still has not been found.

    But they seem very new, and barely existing on the internet. Very suspicious.

    Pavel Kursa has some patents, but they just seem to be for regular metal detectors, for this company:
    http://www.minelab.com/
     
  7. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    Anyone claiming to be based in "Sevastopol, Ukraine", probably won't be in business in that city for long these days!! ;)
     
  8. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Their hand-waving science looks like total BS to me.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    You can't get images like that from a commercial satellite of something that's several hundred meters underwater, and identify specific elements. Even if it is multi-spectral you can't see it, because it's underwater. Where satellite images are used for oil exploration, they can only look at the surface, and can only give a broad classification, not precise element analysis unless they get much closer and use hyperspectral rather than multispectral images. Remote oil exploration at sea relies on oil seepage - and detects oil slicks on the surface of the ocean.

    Look specifically at aluminum. If you could actually identify aluminum, then that's all you would need - the rest is irrelevant, as the plane is about 90% aluminum. Aluminum does not exist in nature in the metallic form. So why don't they show a wide area image with this "Aluminum Anomaly" on it. It should pop right out. Why not show some images of airports for comparison?

    You can't see aluminum by "process satellite multi-spectral images of the survey territory and identify areas that are anomalous to the targeted substance." because you can't see through the water. And they are not claiming to detect aluminum in the water itself, as they are presenting an outline of a plane. They are claiming to detect the actual aluminum in the plane.

    And why is the plane aligned exactly on a North/South line. It looks like they put the plane down, and then photoshopped in some glows.

    And why don't they give an actual location? Why not give the source image cubes they used?
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2014
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  9. deirdre

    deirdre Senior Member

    I know I'm missing something here. the article says
    but their site talks about areas like 250km2 duration 7 weeks. and California is 410,000 km2.

    is that a misprint? the 2 million?
     
  10. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Press release:


    Pic for latest Australia news:
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Looking at the other elements they mention:
    [​IMG]

    This makes zero sense. The suggest that the plane has crashed, aligned perfectly north-south, with no significant fuel leakage, and yet they can detect the fuel in the fuel tanks, and the copper wiring, and the internal engine components, all through the skin of the plane.

    Again, they claim they have detected copper wiring (along the entire length of the plane) via multispectral images through 500m of water and the aluminum skin of the plane.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2014
  12. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    Last edited: Apr 29, 2014
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  13. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Prospecting aids and rainmaking both have long histories of rather sketchy offerings.
     
  14. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    20 un-named technologies, one un-named methodology, 47 un-named scientists, 5 un-named professors, and 12 un-named PhDs all from un-named institutions?

    Baloney detector is pegged.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2014
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  15. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    True. Rainmaking, Dowsing, and Prospecting are practically sister hoax generators.
     
  16. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    They list patents: 86496-UA, 35122-UA, 2007A000247-EU.

    UA is Ukraine patents. EU is europe. The numbers do not show up anywhere on the internet besides here, and the Georesonance page.
     
  17. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    I was going to ask if anyone else had been able to locate those patents.
     
  18. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  19. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Someone emailed me the coordinates as:
    20 07 25.2, 89 59 59.15
    20.123666, 89.99976388

    No source was given.

    The ocean at that point is 2160 feet (658m) deep, according to Google Earth. And on a slope:
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    When they say they use airborne multispectral images, does that mean they have a dedicated satellite taking these images? Or are they public domain images they applied their methods to?
     
  21. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    They certainly don't have their own satellite. They don't say what sources they use, but there's a variety of free ones:
    http://www.pancroma.com/data.html
     
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  22. cogmios

    cogmios New Member

    This reminds me of the pyramids found in Ukraine and which would form "a worldwide powernetwork of pyramids with its basis in nepal"
    http://www.vitaly-gokh.narod.ru/gokhe5.htm (and a gazillion ufo/paranormal/crazy sites copy and pasting additional storylines)

    I believe there was 1 website which WAS thrustworthy (but due to the gazillion of non-truth sites cant find it anymore) (it was from a guy who is a pyramid expert)

    Now... This guy Vitaly A.Gokh also has a company that uses this "torsion technologies" (sic) to find gas/oil/water/minerals.
    I remember he found water in Mauretania, found water in Ukraine (therefore the pyramids) etc... He also used to have a more extensive site but now only found the link above.

    Now... The list of achievements of the company GeoResonance : http://georesonance.com/georesonance-geophysical-survey-projects.html ALSO sums Ukraine, Mauretania, etc... so it sounds very equal.

    If it is the same guy he made the news twice big time : first by finding pyramids in Ukraine (not confirmed) and second finding a plane (not confirmed)

    Strange story!!

    (and for those digging out internet site via internetarchive... it even gets stranger: 4 years after Gokh claimed pyramids were found and were part of a world wide energy network of pyramids of which one important was covered under mount Kailash in Nepal (yep the one from mount Swastika where also the Nazi religion came from and which is the basis for 4 world religions) (see wikipedia) I find reports that Russions actually DID go to mount Kailash in 2004 (http://vedicempire.com/?option=com_content&task=view&id=73&Itemid=27) to search for a pyramid hidden under mount Kailash but this was later debunked by the Chinese.)

    So... if this is the same guy he travels the world.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2014
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  23. txt29

    txt29 Member

    I looked up the history of the company's website at archive.org (https://web.archive.org/web/20110128130011/http://georesonance.com/). Since 2011 the website promoted "holistic healing utilizing the vibrational qualities of various earth elements" [sic]. In 2013 it was then replaced with a placeholder page, and the current form of the website appeared only in April 2014, it means only after the MH370 disappearance.

    The owner of the domain did not change since 2011, so it is excluded that the current company purchased the domain name after the original one was abandoned: http://who.is/domain-history/georesonance.com
     
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  24. jamesrav

    jamesrav New Member

    some verified 'control' pictures would be nice, as you said, how hard would it have been to show an airport? There is nothing to inspire confidence that this is anything more than dowsing with a lot of technical jargon. After a lot of effort they got the publicity they were seeking. The only question I have at this point is if they have located anything - could there be an oil-platform out there?
     
  25. MCAPM

    MCAPM New Member

    Excellent research everyone. Hard to believe this got so much traction in the press. The website info posted by txt29 is particularly damning.
     
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  26. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I'm not sure that is correct, as the last "Holistic Healing" page capture is Jan 28, 2011, but the registration change is September 12 2011.
     
  27. DAC

    DAC New Member

  28. txt29

    txt29 Member

    Yes, that's right. Unfortunately the more complete historical DNS registry records are available only with paid services, so I cannot verify the older records unless I want to invest the money into it (what I definitely do not want). On the other hand there is no recorded change of the content till June 2013, so unless Archive.org did not check the website during two years (unlikely), the content was still the same (with the holistic healing info) even with the owner recorded in September 2011. Additionally, even if the holistic website was not made by the current domain owner (Pavel Kursa), the current content was only created recently (most likely after the MH370 disappearance). In January 2014, the website still contained only a placeholder page, and Archive.org shows the current content only as of April 2014. So it looks highly improbable that a newly created company with no track, no history, and no references could own such advanced technology that is unknown to anyone.
     
  29. deirdre

    deirdre Senior Member

  30. Rand

    Rand New Member

    Great site. A few things:

    1. If you are interested in getting a better idea as to Georesonance's 'fuzzy' technology, google Bioresonance Treatment. I thought of BT on the first occasion of reading of Georesonance's claims. BT is quite in popularity in holistic/naturpath circles, and it claims to use similar technology in detecting subtle magnetic fields. Txt29 is barking up the right tree: there be a motive to be found somewhere in their application of the technology in different domains.

    2. I am unsure whether there was any real assertion by Georesonance that the aircraft landed exactly on a N-S axis. I believe those cartoonish charts are merely for TV consumption, given that watching TV requires less cognitive activity than eating. Give 'em a break, Mike!

    3. If you examine the screenshot labeled in this thread as 'Pic for latest Australia news' you can see that the anomalies are not all that discrete in terms of their orientation; they don't indicate a location on a N-S axis. I can also that the coordinates for the location are included, but can't discern them in the screenshot.

    4. No listed clients, no extensive biographies, no technical explanations, no past press interviews, a garbled, non-technical press release...it all looks very bad in terms of establishing credentials. Perhaps Georesonance's PR manager moonlights for the Malaysian government, thus the commonality of gross incompetence.

    Please email me if anyone figures out where this company came from and what the heck they are up to. It reminds me vaguely of cold fusion.
     
  31. moderateGOP

    moderateGOP Active Member

    This reminds me of the basic Google Earth Hunters rally cry: "Look I found an alien on Mars," Or "Look a secret base on the Moon!" If they purposely created a dubious company to make the claim seem more reliable, this is a shocking development in the Google Earth Hunting CT Group. Usually they are not as advanced as the Naturopath crusaders and are indeed laughed at by the majority of the CT community itself. The quacks that sell New Agey drugs and supplements currently have tons and tons of websites complete with highly graded Better Business Bureau companies. So if this trend continues it will make finding real news even that much harder... Hopefully this was just a mistake and poor research from the news agency that picked this up/supplied the story. But something feels very calculated about this whole story.
     
  32. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    Some news outlets are still taking GeoResonance's claims at face value.

    This CS Monitor post makes no effort to find out if GeoResonance is a credible source.
    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Glob...nes-370-Looking-in-all-the-wrong-places-video

    CNN ran an article this morning saying that searchers dispute GeoResonance claims. But the article only stated that GeoResonance was too far outside the search area.

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/29/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/



    There's nothing vetting GeoResonance. There's just a list of repeating un-supported claims by GeoResonance.



    Nothing in the article questions whether the company actually has the technology it claims.

    This next post by CNN was yesterday at 5:50pm EDT.
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/29/world/asia/malaysia-plane-georesonance/index.html?hpt=bosread



    What Soviet technology would that be CNN?
    How about the stuff that GeoResonance claims to have found in the past? You think you (CNN) might want to ask to see some examples before you take GeoResonance's claims at face value and present them in a news story?

    I'm considering this to be an epic fail by CNN.
     
  33. InterpreDemon

    InterpreDemon Member

    The story, the company's claim to be able to use magnetic resonance imaging, presumably somehow projected from a satellite (formerly secret Soviet military technology only they have access to) as well as nineteen other undisclosed technologies (doubtless including a TriCorder and talking computer that says, "Working...") analyzed by a "team" of unnamed scientists to detect copper wiring, fuel inside wing tanks or ceramic engine components 600' underwater from space with resolutionas good or better than the optical resolution of geo-survey satellites is so absurd that I cannot stop the belly laughing. Anybody who is knowledgeable of the technology knows it took decades of development and magnetic field strengths of 1T along with kilowatts of induced gradient and RF fields at a distance of a foot or so just to be able to align the spin axis of hydrogen atoms and get the millimeter resolution to peer into your body with an MRI scanner, so achieving an equivalent order of magnitude or two better resolution from space with a secret satellite is a joke and a half. One other thing... the 777 as most modern airliners, uses as little copper as possible in wiring, larger conductors often being aluminum or copper-clad aluminum, as well as extensive use of fiber optics... oh, why waste my time, it's a bunch of crap. As with most of these types of operators, their claims of past applications or success are far flung in remote places about the globe (Congo, etc) and impossible to validate, the few identifiable "customers" such as Mr. Pope always seeming to be partners in their adventures. Just a couple scammers, most likely pushing a Pink Sheet stock and trying to cash in on the misery of others.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2014
  34. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    According to a post on PPRune, this is one of their patents:
    UA2011000033 SYSTEM FOR REMOTELY PROSPECTING MINERAL RESOURCE DEPOSITS


    Basically a fancy dowsing device. Scientific nonsense.
     
  35. Unknown Soldier

    Unknown Soldier New Member

    Dear Mike West,

    I have had occassion to examine a similar technology and was impressed with what it was able to locate and is not a magic wand or a dowsing rod.

    Bearing in mind Georesonance has released their multi tiered synthesis of the various compound materials they located that are infact apart of a 777 airliner I humbly suggest you not put your credibility in irreversible checkmate by attacking Georesonance untill after the unknown object has been examined by an underwater drone to get a visual on the object.

    Also bearing in mind entire purpose of Metabunk is to refute claims in regards to evidence, may I remind you that not one shrep of evidence has been released by the official investigators yet you beleive that the aircraft is in the Indian Ocean.

    I am calling you out on your own self contradiction.

    Please explain why you are not refuting the totally unsubstantiated claim that the missing aircraft is in the Indian Ocean in spite of zero evidence to support that claim?

    Unknown Soldier
     
  36. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    That's not the topic. The topic here is the dubious nature of the Georesonance claims.

    If you have some experience with this "technology", then please share it, with references. Specifically how it would detect the copper that is inside the plane, through 600m of seawater, and the plane's walls.
     
  37. InterpreDemon

    InterpreDemon Member

    Not to mention being masked by all the dissolved copper in the surrounding seawater and sediments...

    "Copper occurs both naturally and anthropogenically. There is no difference in the two forms. Copper is ubiquitous in the environment with 50 ppm in the Earth’s crust and 0.25 ppb in Ocean water to over 100 ppm in sediments."

    http://www.chemet.com/file.asp?F=Copper and the Ocean Environment1.PDF&N=Copper and the Ocean Environment1.PDF&C=articles

    I also note that as a holder of eight awarded patents I can assure you that mechanisms and processes described in preferred embodiments need not be proved to actually work.
     
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  38. Unknown Soldier

    Unknown Soldier New Member

    Dear Dear Mike West,

    That is not the topic you say..??

    You have now completely self defeated the entire essence and purpose of your paranoid website.

    May I remind you by your own words you articulate that you are all about debunking dubious claims and yet you continue to defend one of the most bizarre and sensationally ridiculous claims in recent history.??

    Not knowing why I am wasting
     
  39. cogmios

    cogmios New Member

    I found the link on the crimean pyramids that is credible as far as I can judge from a distance:
    http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/piramides/coppens_pyramids04.htm

    It describes the same kind of "russian military" technology

    "Before, he had refined the system so that specific type of photography could occur from the air, thus able to cover larger areas; he also adapted the system for the search of oil, gas and precious metals, finding a willing partner in the oil company Chernomornefte-gaz."

    This describes the usage of the technology pre 1999 to find water in Mauretenia and finding water and accidently pyramids in 1999 (still not confirmed but lets be polite and assume that is true).

    On the site of that person Gokh, you will then see explanations (wild!) of that technology , customers like oil companies and consultancy. Until mid April 2014 this website was on gokh.ru but it has dissapeared and also not traceable on internetarchive. (2 weeks ago the website was live with many pics). On it you could find usages of the technology to pinpoint minerals on planets in our solartsystem just by using the tools on photographs of the planets.

    The problem is that I have not found a link between Dr. Gokh, Dr. Mukhudin and Dr. Taran (1999) and georesonance (2014) which uses the same kind of stuff from russia.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2014
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  40. deirdre

    deirdre Senior Member

    I don't really understand what you're talking about, but the "Sevastopol national university of nuclear energy and industry" is a recurring name. it seems to me the university holds the patent to georeasonance technology. and georesonance is just licensing. (I could be wrong).

    but this link here says gokh has his own unique patent.

    http://en.for-ua.com/news/2006/07/17/122656.html
     
  41. Lee Swordy

    Lee Swordy New Member

    GeoResonance claims to use a nuclear reactor and Kirlian photography to convert ordinary satellite or aerial images into mineral maps. The same Kirlian photography used to record the supposed ‘life force’ aura in parapsychology experiments in the ‘70s. They claim 100% effectiveness. It’s total woo with enough pseudo-science bafflegab to impress the rubes looking for uranium or oil in their farm fields.

    Their “technology’ patents trace back to a shady Ukrainian Geophysical group (transcomplex.uk.com) who claims that photographic images contain a broad spectrum of frequencies outside of visible light, all the way up to the terahertz band, and some of those frequencies correspond to the magnetic resonance frequencies for various minerals. They even suggest this works for digital satellite images, which aren’t even recorded on film.

    They make a negative film from an aerial image of the area they want to survey, wafer it against a thin-film of the mineral they are searching for and a plate of X-ray film, then they expose the stack to radiation in a nuclear reactor. Their theory seems to be that gamma and alpha radiation passes through the negative and somehow stimulates the film to release its broad electromagnetic spectrum, which is filtered by the test layer and somehow only the frequencies that match the nuclear magnetic resonant frequency of the mineral passes through and is recorded on the X-ray film. Then they treat the X-ray film using a high voltage Kirlian field, and viola, a magic image showing the pattern of that mineral under the ground.

    Film and digital images do not contain multi-spectral layers, they are just RGB amplitude values of the total energy in whatever spectrum band the camera is sensitive to, it cannot be separated out into individual wavelength contributions later on.

    This is just dowsing with a high-tech sounding wrapper. The "scientists" listed in the patents have no credentials or papers to their name that I can find. The company's listed projects don't seem to lead to anything. I'm sure their process goes nowhere near a reactor, they just take some Google Earth image and airbrush a mineral map (or airplane outline) on it.

    They also have a field work process where they can supposedly map minerals in 3D by exciting a mineral sample with a laser to generate some kind of UHF signal which they aim into the ground, then they do a raster type walk-around with a receiver to map the resonant responses of the minerals underground. I'm sure they charge more than a few bucks for this service.
     
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