1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I'm interested in how you determine the 10,000 ft figure here.

    Consider that if two trails are both thin enough that you can see through them to some degree, then it's impossible to say which trail is higher. In front, or behind, the overlapping of the trails will be identical.
  2. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    The video comments say:
    No way the model of jet could be determined.
    The viewer doesn't understand perspective, thinks the planes are at steep angles when they are cruising level.

    Same flight path day after day? Does that sound like a global geoengineering project?

    No, it sounds like regularly scheduled flights along a flight path.

    Van Nuys is a northen suburb of Los Angeles. Almost all airways over the LA area run, guess what? NW to SE!
    Most likely he is seeing traffic headed to/from San Diego.

    A little practice using Flightaware.com would probably easily identify these jets. Yet the poor fellow watches them go by without a clue he could do that, because the leadership of the chemtrails movement won't show them how to do so.
    • Like Like x 2
  3. sonofgloin

    sonofgloin New Member

    Mick the perspective and bona fide of the video are both unknown. What attracted me to this footage is the apparent and short lived contrail of the passing jet and the solid fixed contrail of a jet long gone. As I said I am still looking and make no claim that chemtrails are a current reality so a discussion on the semantics of chem vs con is a little early for me.
  4. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    The layer in which contrails persist can be quite thin. You need to know the altitude of the respective planes as a starting point. A couple thousand feet of verticle seperation is almost impossible to discern from the ground but can make the different between a contrail forming and not forming.

    I'm sure the video is genuine but it doesn't appear to show a low altitude trail and the planes are not steeply ascending or descending. They are cruising at flight level. The uploader needs to learn about perspective and how that affects the appearance of lines approaching the horizon.
  5. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    You should read this explanation of that image:
  6. SR1419

    SR1419 Senior Member

    SOG (Gimli?)

    Here is another vid of the same phenomenon- but from the point of view of the cockpit of another plane- notice the lower plane in a much more humid layer leaving a long persistent trail whilst the higher plane leaving a short, dissipating trail:

  7. Chew

    Chew Senior Member

    The other day I saw that; a short contrail and one that stretched across the sky. I got my camera and snapped a pic and it said, "Out of memory". Gah! I deleted a few old pics and tried again but got the same error message. But I did check Plane Finder. The short contrail was from a plane at 34,000 feet and the long one was from a plane at 27,000 feet.
  8. sonofgloin

    sonofgloin New Member

    Mick, Chew and SR1419....thanks for the contribution, and SR you’re a clairvoyant, my given name is Gimli. Reading all that you guys have directed me to I think my simplistic plan to gauge height via the cloud formations and pressure via the barometer is too flawed to attempt, can't be empirical regarding the observations.

    But the geophysicists still concern me because they discuss mitigates such as global wrapping to address global warming. Which regardless of the claims that man’s contribution thus far is significant are wrong, we have certainly polluted the environment but not altered the weather. GW is cyclical with the earth’s magma cushion probably being the only thing on or directly around terra firma that is relevant and the rest comes from the sun.

    So for me it is still watch this space. I do not trust these ideologues.
  9. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    I'm not sure if this is possible with videos, but it looks to me as if photographs may be enhanced to more clearly discern the difference in altitude of contrails:

    inverted color contrails.

    from: http://www.facebook.com/groups/glob...32025343240&set=o.291686185301&type=1&theater
  10. deejay

    deejay Banned Banned

    1. Because, as suspected in reference to CTs, they're merely adding Barium and other reflective/conductive materials at flight level, for numerous reasons (most classified with HAARP)
    2. They're mixing chemicals 'in solution' at flight level, as can be seen with the naked eye - not painting the side of a house
    3. Granted, not all contrails constitute 'chemtrails'; most researchers worth their salt are fast to make a distinction.
    4. Apparently, unlike regular commercial overflights, CT flights don't require N numbers (as spotted and reported by numerous researchers - just threw this one in for fun).

    I love this thread, because it proves scientifically that the technology to disperse - virtually anything - via air not only exists, but that it exists in sophisticated forms and for quite some time.

    Granted the posted pics are all declassified, from airline texts, military journals, etc. Truth is we'll never see the classified applications (of which there can be many) - or at least not this easily.

    If you doubt this, try getting hold of some pictures of the CIA's aerial dispersion of biological toxins over Cuban crop fields - this is a well documented program which flew dozens of missions trying to poison/sabotage Castro's economy, not only as being widely reported but it's also part of the Congressional Record. So go ahead, be my guest - ask the CIA for copies of their air reconnaisance photos from these missions if you'd like, with the expressed desire being so that you can publish them on your chemtrail-methodology debunking thread - just don't hold your breath.

    So yeah, this is great. Please feel free to exhibit and talk about all the declassified applications of aerial dispersant technologies that you can - it merely bolsters the argument of CT enthusiasts and researchers as "proof in method".

    If you want to hide something, put it in plain sight.
  11. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    And what is the distinction? And what the scientific basis for the distinction?
  12. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I don't think so Jay. If anything it just enchances the illusion. The thin trails look like they are below the broad trails. But that's only because they are denser. They would look the same regardless of if they were above or below the broad trails.

    A contrail is comprised of mostly empty space, so the darker areas of a contrail (the lighter areas in the inverted image) are holes. The individual ice crystals in both trails are uniformly lit. So basically the lightness values of trails just add together where they overlap, and the darkness of the trails does nothing, regardless of the order
  13. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    deejay, I notice you didn't name any of these "researchers". Making an unnamed claim isn't worth much, though. G. Edward Griffin, the co-producer of "What In The World Are They Spraying", did that research, and here is what he found:

    To see the Las Vegas reports, see the videos here:

    You might be asking yourself, "Why didn't I hear about this before?"

    You really need to ask Michael J. Murphy about that............
    He knew all about this before he conned folks out of $20,000 to make his latest video which really had nothing new to say.
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    GEG wrote:

    " I suspect there is something added to the fuel that crystallizes at temperatures at around 30 degrees F"

  15. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    dihydrogen monoxide?
    • Like Like x 1
  16. lotek

    lotek Active Member

    Without very advanced software i am as yet unaware of, it is absolutely impossible to gauge altitude in an image with only one POV/shot location. Triangulation needs 1 focal point and two camera points(or 1 and a laser). you would also need to know the distance between both observation points.

    "Optical 3d measuring systems use this principle as well in order to determine the spatial dimensions and the geometry of an item. Basically, the configuration consists of two sensors observing the item. One of the sensors is typically a digital camera device, and the other one can also be a camera or a light projector. The projection centers of the sensors and the considered point on the object’s surface define a (spatial) triangle. Within this triangle, the distance between the sensors is the base b and must be known. By determining the angles between the projection rays of the sensors and the basis, the intersection point, and thus the 3d coordinate, is calculated from the triangular relations"


    Given that the size of the contrail is not a constant that cannot be used to aid with size/distance comparison. If you will remember, people cant even see two like objects clearly without skewing the size/scale of both. If one had an object of known size at a known identical altitude you could do that sort of like is done in forensic photography. but lol.

  17. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    They add -40 degrees C - it's not a common chemical at ground level, but there's quite a lot of it at 30,000 feet or there abouts

    • Like Like x 1
  18. solrey

    solrey Senior Member

    Yes, a gaseous mixture of primarily nitrogen and oxygen is compressed and added to atomized fuel in an exothermic reaction chamber to produce dihydrogen monoxide vapor which crystalizes at around 30 degrees F. ;)
    • Like Like x 1
  19. jvnk08

    jvnk08 Active Member

  20. Jazzy

    Jazzy Closed Account

    Wow. That was as concise as I've ever seen. A work both of Art and Science. The comparison of bypass ratios... Great references too.

    That was a very odd picture, Jay, but I agree with Mick and others that that there is no frame of reference up there, and light reflected from trails just passes through other trails because of their high transparency. But shadows (when they occur) may help. Or do they?

    On this atoptics page: http://atoptics.co.uk/atoptics/contr2.htm I sometimes see the Sun as small and close instead of the reverse.
  21. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    You can disprove they came from those planes, Great work.
    You can't disprove chemtrails because the American government have admitted to it.
    Hahaha its no longer a conspiracy.
  22. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Can you link where the government admits to spraying long white lines in the sky?
  23. jvnk08

    jvnk08 Active Member

    Don't hold your breath :p
    • Like Like x 1
  24. FreiZeitGeist

    FreiZeitGeist Senior Member

    This Video (uploaded Yesterday, around 300 views) has some of our photos in it

    There a also airborne measurements installations and areal refuelling pods in it.

    Maybe we should add the most common ones of them used by the chemtrail-believers, even if they are not "interior"
  25. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  26. Revelation

    Revelation Guest

    I've read all of the posts here and wonder why no one has considered that Weather Modification, Inc. has nothing to do with geo-engineering and the fact that they claim that they do so, on their very own website...

  27. HappyMonday

    HappyMonday Moderator

    Are you trying to say Weather Mod inc. are participating in geoengineering by their own admission? Or the opposite?
  28. Belfrey

    Belfrey Senior Member

    Cloud seeding modifies the weather, not the climate. Geoengineering, by definition, is "the deliberate large-scale intervention in the Earth’s climate system, in order to moderate global warming". Cloud seeding involves releasing materials (often silver iodide, sometimes dry ice pellets or NaCl, CaCl) into existing clouds to induce precipitation. It can locally increase rain or snowfall, or reduce hail damage (by reducing hail pellet size), but it can't cool down the earth.
    • Like Like x 2
  29. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    Are you saying that Chemtrails aren't real?
  30. Rico

    Rico Active Member

    I think the nice way of saying it is that one should scrutinize their own beliefs a little more critically, lest they be the victims of ignorance. We as human beings carry many beliefs, but it's silly believing in things like chemtrails for the sake of belief without weighing in all the information pertinent to the subject. That includes evidence that points to the contrary of a particular belief.

    People fall for scams all the time, and I don't think anyone would say they do so intentionally. More than likely they miss out on information and failed to see the whole picture.
  31. Gaikokujin

    Gaikokujin New Member

  32. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  33. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    I'll start by discussing this one:


    You can't get over 4 million parts per million!!

    The link provided is actually parts per BILLION - micrograms per litre - so "only" 4000 or so parts per million.

    You will find quite a lot of discussion about the Shasta tests on here - eg


    And also some discussion on Contrail Science - http://contrailscience.com/what-in-the-world-are-they-spraying/
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  34. Belfrey

    Belfrey Senior Member

    Not to mention that the test results in question show that the sample included "sludge" and "water" with basically the same values - suggesting that they scooped up the sample from the river bottom (aluminum-laden dirt included).
  35. HappyMonday

    HappyMonday Moderator

    Why ever not?
    • Like Like x 1
  36. Steve Funk

    Steve Funk Active Member

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE8_0RhrcqY I will respond to this one, the video about the contrails/chemtrails being turned on and off. First the sky is not homogeous. Some regions have enough humidity for contails to form, and some don't. This is discussed in more detail here:http://contrailscience.com/broken-contrails/ Second, the parts identified as "nozzles" are actually hinges for the wing flaps. There is a video made by a pilot that discusses this more fully but I can't locate it at this moment.
  37. Steve Funk

    Steve Funk Active Member

    re: the patent
    This states clearly it is a method of dispersing fire retardant. What is unusual about that? I'm an old fire fighter. The use of Air tankers is SOP on large fires in the west.
    • Like Like x 1
  38. Steve Funk

    Steve Funk Active Member

  39. Billzilla

    Billzilla Active Member

    Just for laughs, someone has made this photo.
    No doubt it'll appear in the woo-woo sites as proof though ...

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
    • Like Like x 1
  40. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    It has already gone through at least one regulatory agency.......;)