Debunked: C-130 dropping 'raindrop shaped fibers', lab tests for metals [Spider Silk, Dirt]

Yep and so there is a legitimate question - is it man made?

I notice that you do not actually answer that.

So let's look at he circumstances - it is ballooning season, it looks and behaves like spider silk, the spectral analysis is at least close to spider silk, and there is actually no reason to think it might be anything else other than spider silk.....except for you and others who keep "just asking questions".

so for me the considerable preponderance of circumstantial evidence is that it is spider silk.

If you want to show it is something else then how about actually showing that, instead of saying "Well it might be....".....???
 
Now, you always like to give links to stuff. But its hard not to notice that you failed to give a link to your graph.

I linked to the source where I originally posted it in post #6. I've now added that link to the OP, thanks for pointing that out.

Still seems like semantics. It's a match for spider silk, and yes also a close match for spider silk with a small amount of carbon nanotubes sprayed on it.

The blue line is: f-CNT-SS. Everyone can read the article to undersand what that is, but to break it down, its man-altered spider silk.

It's spider silk PLUS some carbon nanotubes. That's why the FTIR looks almost identical to spider silk. Just a bit of carbon.

Are you suggesting that someone is harvesting tons of spider webs, coating them with nanotubes, and then sprayed them out of aircraft in a way that makes them look exactly like normal spider webs?

And no, the absorption rate scale is irrelevant. You can't get the same complex pattern at a different scale.
 
I never said that stuff was man made spider silk and I never said it might be man made spider silk.

I reread my post just to make sure I didn't give that impression, and to my satisfaction, I believe I did not therefore I won't engage in your (mikec) attempted debate that was based on a straw man o begin with. If you (mikec) or anyone else doesn't get my point, then you just don't get it. And that's fine. The end.
 
No its not semantics ... its huge. And I'll show you and everyone on this thread why its huge. You presented a graph to show the FTIR of Spider Silk. Now, that graph, shows two lines ... BOTH very similar.Lets take a look at those two lines on the same graph. The trend on both lines are "very close", using your words as my own. Actually both lines are pretty close up to the third phase, the phase after the big surge upwards... then, there is still the same trend, but only a difference in absorbance intensity, and even though the graph shows a big gap between the two at the end visually, its very minimal in reference to the absorption numbers, we're talking about a difference of .03 -.04.

Now, you always like to give links to stuff. But its hard not to notice that you failed to give a link to your graph. I would think that would be VERY vital, considering that it is one of the foundations of your argument. Look at all the links you provided.. But amazingly.. Forgot the most important one... That's a coincidence i guess. So, I'll do you a favor and reveal where it is from: Nature Communications (link at bottom). And the name of the article is: Carbon Nanotubes on a Spider Silk Scaffold.

Nanotubes? WTH? You see, thats why you made sure to inform everyone, "its the red line". The red line is the "neat" SS, or spider silk. The blue line is: f-CNT-SS. Everyone can read the article to undersand what that is, but to break it down, its man-altered spider silk. They are "300% tougher then neat silk fiber, versatile and multi-functional and exhibit polar, shapeable, conducting, flexible, strain and humidity sensitive properties. Good stuff.

So now, we have a graph, with two lines which are "really close", again using your words as mine, compared to themselves ... yet one is natural .. while the other was man altered. So when we speak of "really close" ... yes, Mick, you need to put that into context. Because really close can mean we are dealing with a natural spider silk, or really close can mean we are dealing with a technologically advanced spider silk. You also have to explain how you "scaled" the FTIR graph, in light of this revelation, which has the absorption rates AND the wavenumber - to - the graph showed on the computer monitor which only had wavenumbers (fuzzy as hell, but I think you scaled that right Mick), but NO absorption rates. Again, this is very important, because just a insanely small difference of absorption rates or a mistake in scaling the absorption rates can literally turn this substance from a natural spider silk to a man-altered http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/130910/ncomms3435/full/ncomms3435.html
Once again, I'm lost re. figuring out your point.

Both the red and the blue line mimic the lab findings...
why wouldn't naturally occurring spider silk still be the most obvious explanation, by far?
What alternative explanation is an even remotely plausible rival?




p.s. I don't have a problem with you pointing out the carbon nanotubes angle...
that actually makes sense...but claiming that its significance in this CT is "huge"
just seems like more of the same ol' diversionary tactics...
 
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Mick, how do you know the sequential static increments of the absorbing rates in the computer monitor is the same as your spider silk graph?

Isn't it reasonable to also say, based on the ftir, that the graphs resembles the man made spider silk too? Only in the preconceived context that that substance is natural spider silk does one leap to your conclusion, but my conclusion is NOT that it is man made, my only observation, without a preconceived agenda, is that both look very similar (from far incidentally).

Mick, you claimed that one thing was another because predominantly because of those graphs look alike. Well, ive shown that it can look like man made SS which of course nobody wants to accept or believe. But, once I reveal that graph can be interpreted both ways, that destroys the premise of your debunking even if I'm not even claiming it is man made. The method is at question, not the result.
 
Mick, how do you know the sequential static increments of the absorbing rates in the computer monitor is the same as your spider silk graph?

That's irrelevant. It's lke I showed you a photo of a fingerprint, and a suspect's fingerprint that looked identical, and you said maybe the photo has been enlarged, and actually shows a fingerprint from a tiny clone of the suspect.

Well, ive shown that it can look like man made SS
No you haven't. The graph is not of "man made spider silk". It's spider silk with a bit of carbon on.
 
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Mick, how do you know the sequential static increments of the absorbing rates in the computer monitor is the same as your spider silk graph?

Isn't it reasonable to also say, based on the ftir, that the graphs resembles the man made spider silk too?

Of course it does - but that is a trivial answer. It will resemble any graph of a substance that is largely spider silk....because that is what it is.

And I note that you used "man made" even though we all understand it is "modified".

But as per my comment earlier there is no reason to think that it might be artificially altered - there is no circumstance about the location or timing or anything else that implies or suggests any human intervention other than picking it off a fence.

To say "but it might be - you don't know...." is termed argument from ignorance for a reason.
 
Man made. Man altered.. Stop it mick, your playing words games and trying to muddy the waters. The red line is SS without any nanotubes, the blue line is with them. You now claim the SS has s bit of carbon, which you have never mentioned until I revealed my information, YET you instructed people to reference the red line originally, again, which is the SS before the nanotubes process. The whole graph was designed originally to show the difference.

If you truly believe that ladies SS has carbon nanotubes, why did you originally reference the line on the graph representing the natural SS, and also now you are burdened with explaining how very rare naturally occurring carbon nanotubes are present .. Since... You made the claim.

By the way, does dusty everyday spider silk as you originally claimed it to be generally have carbon nano tubes? Lol.
 
Man made. Man altered.. Stop it mick, your playing words games and trying to muddy the waters. The red line is SS without any nanotubes, the blue line is with them. You now claim the SS has s bit of carbon, which you have never mentioned until I revealed my information, YET you instructed people to reference the red line originally, again, which is the SS before the nanotubes process. The whole graph was designed originally to show the difference.

If you truly believe that ladies SS has carbon nanotubes, why did you originally reference the line on the graph representing the natural SS, and also now you are burdened with explaining how very rare naturally occurring carbon nanotubes are present .. Since... You made the claim.

By the way, does dusty everyday spider silk as you originally claimed it to be generally have carbon nano tubes? Lol.

I think you are confused. I told people to reference the red line because it's the line for spider silk. That it.

I looked for a spider silk FTIR, I found one, I compared it to the one from the news.

I never mentioned carbon nanotubes because they were entirely irrelevant. You started talking about, so I said:

The graph is not of "man made spider silk". It's spider silk with a bit of carbon on.

Which refers to the blue line on the graph, which is spider silk with a little bit of carbon.
 
Any spider silk is gonna pick up carbon with in a fairly short time of leaving the spiders backside. carbon is everywhere in the environment, not suprising since earth has a carbon based eco-system. Carbon gets into the system naturally via forest fires, decomposition of vegetation and the like. Add in the fact that by modern mans very existence we are adding carbon to the atmosphere by fossil fuel power generation, via car exhausts and other means its not suprising that any spider silk left ballooning around for a few hours is going to show a higher carbon count than fresh.

Also i'm a bit confuddled by the man made spider silk claims. As far as I can find out yes it is possible to make spider silk, but it is hardly man made, it is gathered from the milk of gm goats, but this technology is very much in its infancy and the gm goat silk is lacking a lot of the strength and other properties of the spider made stuff.

This is a good article on the whole spider silk manufacturing thing
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/0/21685308

Making spider silk artificially might be possible if scientists understood how it is made by the spider and could replicate that.

The silk's journey begins in the spinning gland as a random coil in high concentrations before it is passed through ducts in precise conditions of acidity, water content and chemical concentration, before being extruded out a spinning wart. The fibre that emerges is water insoluble, partly crystal and partly coiled.

Although theories have been proposed for exactly how this is done, this complex sequence is not yet fully understood.

To get round this problem, one team of scientists has tried to make spider silk by genetically modifying goats to produce spider silk protein in their milk. However, the silk does not share the mechanical properties of natural spider silk.

"The protein is the same as the one naturally produced by spiders," says Professor Randy Lewis of Utah State University. "But scientists still haven't worked out how to create the structures and folds of the protein that give it its combination of high strength and high elasticity.

"We can currently produce proteins that are a quarter to a third of the size of natural proteins," added Professor Lewis. "The goal is to match the strength of natural silk."

Will transgenics or artificial synthesis ever allow the recreation of spider silk with all its amazing properties?

"In my opinion both routes are equally feasible and are both likely to lead to novel applications," says Professor Sheibel. For him, it is an exciting time: "In upcoming years we will see the first products made of spider silk entering the market."
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IE science is getting there but hasn't got there yet, at least not in a way that can mass produce the stuff. Therefore spider silk used in manufacturing at the moment is literally pulled out of live spiders and is only made in tiny quantities therefore making the stuff very expensive. Not the sort of stuff that you could economically make a full sky spanning so called 'chemtrail' out of.

So are you suggesting that artificial spider silk IS made in industrial quantities? If so can you provide evidence of this. After all with all the potential industrial applications of the stuff, anyone making the break through in its manufacture isn't gonna stay quiet about it, they are gonna yell it from the roof tops and get very rich selling the stuff or the production rights worldwide.

And finally. if they HAVE got the stuff, why drop it from aircraft? what purpose would such dropping of the spider silk serve? All questions that must be addressed if the conspiracy is to have any chance of standing.
 
Also i'm a bit confuddled by the man made spider silk claims.

I think it's actually @Thom who is befuddled, as he started talking about man-made spider silk because he misunderstood what the other FTIR spectrum was of (it was normal spider silk with a coating of carbon nanotubes). So a bit of a wild goose chase.
 
So now, we have a graph, with two lines which are "really close", again using your words as mine, compared to themselves ... yet one is natural .. while the other was man altered.

Some university researchers were testing the effects of carbon coating spider's silk. Their FTIR test demonstrated that adding a coating of carbon to spider's silk does not alter some geometric properties of protein chains found in the silk filament. Just like spreading a tasty maple glaze on top of a donut does not change the molecular geometry of the donut.

Debating the blue line is missing the point of the OP, which is that the red graph line is a signature for spider's silk, the FTIR test on the lady's mystery fibre produced the same signature, so therefore the lady's mystery fibre is spider's silk.
 
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/questions/question/1777/


Are spiders web edible?

Spiders do eat their webs. Sometimes they eat them everyday to try and get back in some of the energy they've expended on it. Another interesting use of spider webs is that they've got quite a lot of a vitamin K in them which can help your blood to clot, and before the use of gauze, people used to put spider webs on wounds.
People are currently looking into what makes spider webs so strong, with hope to make this artificially, they would make great bullet-proof vests. They've found the proteins in them that makes them strong, called Spidroin 1 and 2, and you can produce these in the lab. But they have to use insect cells to grow it, because the insect cells do some chemical modification and insects are more closely related to spiders.
They're not at the point where you can scale it up to a bullet-proof vest yet, but its certainly interesting.
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What about the goats that produce spider silk now, in their goat milk, what other sources of spider web might there be that "contaminate" the air or alight on the ground and are being found in tested samples.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-16554357

http://phys.org/news194539934.html

A few years ago, perhaps 4 or 5, the above information became public and the short follow up was the US Military had initially bought a certain goat milk silk technology and was using it for bullet proofing. (sorry, didn't find that link quickly)

http://www.postnatural.org/PNOM/BiosteelGoat.html

So at this point military planes could be dropping fibrous wear that includes ... spider silk !

Yes, Biosteel "fallout".
 
what other sources of spider web might there be that "contaminate" the air or alight on the ground and are being found in tested samples.

Spiders.

Really that's by far the simplest explanation for this, so why on earth is there any need to invent vastly more complicated explanations?
 
Spiders.

Really that's by far the simplest explanation for this, so why on earth is there any need to invent vastly more complicated explanations?

I don't think there's any need, other than possible sources should be considered.
The other gentleman in post 90 touched upon many things related to my post.
I'll note "industrial quantities" does not appear to be the case at all concerning University sponsored silk milk.

Those claiming a conspiracy about composition of "the spider web", though, would have an interest in genetically modified sources.

What else could it be but spider webs seemed to be stated, so when no one brought up Biosteel and goat milk silk, I did, as no one here seemed to be aware of it.

If under the microscope, differences are really there, we have a possible explanation for that.
The DoD acquired project is a possibility.

I'm not claiming direct evidence and am not intending to break any posting rules concerning speculation, however I thought it fair to note that new science does in fact have some fair play as a possible explanation.

Genetically modified biological product is becoming more commonplace all the time.

A few decades ago who would believe goat/spider genetic silk milk modifications ? Not many. Claims of a different type of "spider silk fiber" brought this to mind for me. Instead of waiting for someone to say how could that possibly matter, I added the military plane and wearing fibers theory, I made that up out of thin air.


(edit) Okay, my mistake I see now the same guy brought it up (silk milk) in post 89. Good, good to know, I like that.
 
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It's that time of year in Australia, with spiders dropping from the skies again! :eek:

I happened across a funny story and decided to bump this thread with some new info, just in case it were to be noticed on the OZ chemtrail sites.

Raining spiders in Goulburn? - Sydney Morning Herald

Small excerpt:


Millions of baby spiders appeared to be raining from the sky in the Southern Tablelands earlier this month, with one astonished local fearing the region had been "invaded by spiders" and another reporting his home was "covered" in the creatures.

Goulburn resident Ian Watson said his house looked like it had been "abandoned and taken over by spiders".

"The whole place was covered in these little black spiderlings and when I looked up at the sun it was like this tunnel of webs going up for a couple of hundred metres into the sky."

It was beautiful, he said. "But at the same time I was annoyed because ... you couldn't go out without getting spider webs on you. And I've got a beard as well, so they kept getting in my beard."
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As a fellow bearded gentleman with mild arachnophobia this gives me the willies...

I followed the story to a few more sites and found an interesting video posted of spiders in flight, thought it would go well in this thread.



Video sourced from this NBC story.
 
The chemweb theory is still being spun! The Haarp Report guy on You Tube is spinning this on the back of the Marie Snow November, 2014 C-130 claim.




Published on 25 Oct 2015
This shows chemtrail "cob webs" hanging on tree limbs, in late October. There are NO spiders, this time of year, but all morning, "spider" webs have been falling from HIGH UP in the sky. Silver threads were falling all morning, but by afternoon, mostly white clumps were falling. Also, the tree webs start to clump together, as time goes on, so they disappear after a few gusts of wind.
A falling clump can be seen at 0:56, which proves these are not being spun by spiders in a tree.
These fibers are extremely reflective, so these are certainly the end stage of one type of chemtrail nano-polymer. As the chemtrails polymerize, over time, they get too heavy to stay suspended, and fall out of the sky, with the appearance of normal spider webs (to maintain deniability).
The highly reflective nature of these fibers proves they are part of a "Solar Radiation Management" program, that is happening every day. Chemtrails, and geoengineering are facts of daily life, and this video is just more proof, on top of a mountain of evidence.
The chemtrail SRM program is a desperate attempt to hide runaway global heating, that is happening on our planet right now. We have a right to know what is going on! If the world knew the truth, mankind WOULD step up, with remedial actions. However, since the grim reality of runaway heating is being hidden from us, nothing will be done, until our extinction is guaranteed! Genocide, and eco-cide, are the REAL purposes behind chemtrails, and SRM.
My area is being sprayed with "spider web" chemtrails, POSSIBLY because I am working on a way to use a bright LED flashlight, and a regular video camera, or an infrared spotlight and infrared (sony super nightshot) video camera, to see the amount of chemtrails in the air at night. This method works with the dust type of chemtrail, but the spider web type of chemtrail shows up as clumps at night, which resemble insects, so my "gray smoke flashlight" test will not work, as long as this type of chemtrail is being sprayed. I encourage people in heavily chemtrailed areas to try the "gray smoke flashlight" test - you will be amazed at the junk you are breathing!
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This is a microscopic view of the chemtrail "spider webs", which were shown in my earlier video "Chemtrail Webs in Texas, Oct 25, 2015"
First, a very fine dog hair is shown, compared to a very fine human hair. Then, some real spider silk is shown. The last part shows the chemtrail web material, and how it forms "tangles" as it falls from the sky.
The fine human hair is about 40 times wider than the chemtrail fibers. The real spider silk was two to four times wider than the chemtrail fibers, but thousands of times stronger.
Some chemtrail fibers were very thin, but others were wider. This shows that the fibers are growing in diameter, not just length, as they fall. So, the polymerization is not just linear, but also adds to the width of the fiber. This could point to an electrical attraction, in addition to chemical bonding.
I plan on doing better microscopic videos in the future, so this was just a warm-up, using some very dirty slides, and an old microscope. My future videos should be MUCH better!

In November, 2014, a C-130 dropped 50 foot long, shiny spider web fibers over Prescott, Arizona: .Marie Snow had the fibers tested, and found high levels of Aluminum, Barium, and Strontium!
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"No spiders at this time of year"? Autumn is peak gossamer season. Here is an article from last November from Arizona: http://azdailysun.com/news/local/ba...cle_c8128ac5-b59f-51fa-98b6-0f437f4a04d7.html


November 12, 2014 5:15 am • EMERY COWAN Sun Staff Reporter
Ballooning spiders search for homes
Ken Casey was scanning the skies with binoculars last week, trying to spot eagles during a break from work at the wastewater treatment plant at Camp Navajo. But it was something much smaller than a bird that ended up catching his eye.

Casey started to notice spiders floating through the air attached to long strands of silk.

“There are millions of them floating around right now,” Casey said. “I saw them near the sun, there are little, tiny spiders but you only see the webs. I'm still flabbergasted.”

The floating spiders Casey noticed aren’t an uncommon phenomenon, said Neil Cobb, an associate research professor in biology at Northern Arizona University.

The process is called ballooning, and it’s a common part of the life cycle for spiders, Cobb said.

When they “balloon,” spiders spin out enough silk threads, called gossamers, that when they hop off a building, a branch or a blade of grass, these silk sails catch the breeze and allow the spider to take flight, like a hang glider.

Usually only baby spiders are light enough to float through the air this way. It’s a crucial mechanism for them to find new habitats and search for new resources, Cobb said. Most go just a few miles, but some can float great distances and have been known to reach 10,000 feet in altitude, he said.

“It’s how they disperse to places like islands, where you can't imagine how they would have gotten there,” he said.

With Arizona’s southwesterly winds, the spiders who lift off here may end up in the Rockies or somewhere along the Great Plains, said Larry Stevens, ecology and conservation curator at the Museum of Northern Arizona.

“Spiders are so abundant that literally billions of tiny spiders balloon off our landscape,” he said. "They're at the mercy of the wind."

It’s most common for spiders to balloon in the fall because the babies have hatched from eggs that female spiders tend to lay in the summer. After dispersing, the insects overwinter in the juvenile state then grow to their full size in spring and reproduce in the summer, Stevens said.
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There are NO spiders, this time of year,

How can someone make such a claim with a straight face?

I noticed all the spiders in the autumn when I was a little kid. I was utterly fascinated with the giant webs the fat brown orb weavers would make. I also noticed the little threads that would collect on my fishing line way out in the middle of the bay when we went fishing in the fall.

Even if someone isn't sufficiently observant to have noticed such for themselves, it is trivial to run an internet search for a few key words like spiders/autumn/southern US and find out that autumn spiders and gossamer are very common.

I have trouble believing that this person is being sincere in claiming that "there are NO spiders, this time of year".

My area is being sprayed with "spider web" chemtrails, POSSIBLY because I am working on a way to use a bright LED flashlight, and a regular video camera, or an infrared spotlight and infrared (sony super nightshot) video camera, to see the amount of chemtrails in the air at night.

Does this person seriously believe that he is being targeted because he plays with flash lights?

What happens when he turns off all the lights in his house and uses a bright flash light?

I wonder what he would think if he put on a bright LED headlamp and walked through a grassy area at night and noticed the 1000s of spider eyes reflecting back at him.
 
I commute by bicycle, and on autumn evenings I can certainly confirm there are loads of spider webs drifting around. On a typical 5 mile journey I usually feel at least half a dozen go across my face, which at this time of year is about the only exposed skin!
 
It’s most common for spiders to balloon in the fall because the babies have hatched from eggs that female spiders tend to lay in the summer. After dispersing, the insects overwinter in the juvenile state then grow to their full size in spring and reproduce in the summer, Stevens said.
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Spiders are not insects. Just being pedantic.
 
Marie Snow is now claiming the following in regards to three KC-130. Posted in the comments section of the following video.

upload_2015-11-5_16-31-1.png



The following is her recent video upload 4 November 2015


Published on 31 Oct 2015
On 10-30-15 @ 11:26 am three KC130s flew by close to my home. Soon after, web-like filaments filled the sky and the telephone lines and plants were covered. I have pictures of the aircraft passing overhead, pictures and video of the filaments.
At least 7 other people that I know of witnessed this, including my friend Cori Gunnells, students at school and my teacher at Yavapai College. Twenty miles south of us another witness saw these filaments falling and also took pictures. The telephone lines were literally dripping with filaments. This was a 'clear' day.. if you don't know what to look for, you won't see it.. This happened to us last year also and none of our 'protective' agencies claim jurisdiction. We are being poisoned.... LOOK UP!!!

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