1. ChemtrailsBelgium

    ChemtrailsBelgium New Member

    Triple dare to debunk this! Please take your time with this subject. I know it is not an easy subject and involves a lot of research but bare with me.
    I'm presenting this video, showing the direct link from chemtrails and widespread pandamic of "Morgellons" which is willingy sprayed over different countries. Please check the links in the description box of the video for hardcore scientific evidence on Morgellons. And there is a test to see if u got it yourself. Beware, u might be in for a suprise, a bad one. Good luck.

     
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  2. FreiZeitGeist

    FreiZeitGeist Senior Member

    I hope this is a joke...

    Video-Description with the "undebunkable" Sources...

    All the links present here are discussed allready in this forum, for example here:
    https://www.metabunk.org/threads/600-Carnicom-institute-morgellons-study

    These are scientific Sources to Morgellons:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16489838?dopt=Abstract

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21576554?dopt=Abstract

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18318880?dopt=Abstract

    BTW: I can´t watch this Video because it´s using music without permission of the rigths-owner (and without the needed payment to the GEMA). Shortly sayed: The Videomaker breaked the roules that are be in my country. Sounds not very professional.

    [​IMG]

    This is the first time, that I´m Thankfull to the GEMA :-D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
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  3. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    These claims by Carnicom began in 2008. He should have collected buckets of the stuff by now and gotten it analyzed scientifically.
    In 4 years he has failed to do so. Like most of his claims, which include claiming that chemtrails have changed time itself, he is fond of making a claim of something unusual which is probably perfectly explainable, but failing to follow up or pin any of his
    so-called "research" with any hard facts.

    Essentially, by his own failures, he has debunked himself over time. If a man doesn't make his claims show some substance, what good is it?

    I personally find no need to debunk him any longer.
     
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  4. ChemtrailsBelgium

    ChemtrailsBelgium New Member

    The funny thing is it is not delusional. I have fibers comming from my skin and sometimes stingy feelings, like a needle being placed random on my body. Sometimes at 2 different places at the same time.
    Clinical study on morgellons: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3047951/?tool=pmcentrez.
    It is strange because GEMA says i use music from "dj boris" which is absolutely not!! And i refuse to acknowledge it.

    Did u do the red wine test? Im pretty sure the delusional fibers will flow out your mouth and pls look them under a microscope. Then u will see.
    Here i made a copy free to download: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/6508255/From_Chemtrails_to_Morgellons_The_unmistakable_link_DEBUNK_THIS.flv
     
  5. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    Why do you think the "red wine test" shows anything more than dead skin sloughing off the inside of your mouth, as it should?
     
  6. ChemtrailsBelgium

    ChemtrailsBelgium New Member

    He has buckets of filaments and send them over to the EPA and CDC and both refused to examine it. No one knows why. He on the otherhand uses his skills to identify the fiber at 5000-8000x magnification. The fiber has been crosschecked with the FBI national database from all existing fibers and it has NO match. He is not the only one who is doing work on it. Also mainstream media reported on it, interviewed scientists who are totally clueless witht his fibers. what does that mean? And sory but u cant say there is no need to debunk it without doing proper research. And not because he has a controversial papers on time, that his microscope is lying about the fiber having sub-fibers in it and there is altered blood-cells in a child of 6 years. The Red blood cell is circular-ish. Any difference is not something u want to have.
     
  7. ChemtrailsBelgium

    ChemtrailsBelgium New Member

    because when u look it under a microscope at 7000 magnification it is everything but dead skin and has pathogen attributes.
     
  8. ChemtrailsBelgium

    ChemtrailsBelgium New Member

    I think u need to do the red wine test and drink the filaments back in. chemwebs are the morgellons. Maybe u want to roll in it if it looks so harmless?
     
  9. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    Who are you replying to with these comments? Can you please use the "reply with quote" function to keep related comments together??

    what are chemwebs? what are "pathogen attributes"?
     
  10. FreiZeitGeist

    FreiZeitGeist Senior Member

    This is what the "red Wine Test" really does, it is called Astringency and happens with all strong red wines. The Wine reacts with the proteins of your oral mucosa. Wine-Testers knowing this effect, they also found this "Structures" in the Wine they spit out. Since years this Phenomenois known, and it was so before chemtrails or even Morgellons were claimed...


    http://www.aromadictionary.com/articles/wineastringency_article.html
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2014
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  11. ChemtrailsBelgium

    ChemtrailsBelgium New Member

    i was doing "quick reply to this message but ok :). Chemwebs are the webby stringy that u see floating trough the sky. After some time it desolves and inhabits its host, plant or animal. Pathoogen is a collective name for all organisms "bad" for the host. attributs are: it looks like a bacterial, it grows like a fungus, it is a parasite because it uses its host for energy etc. It can also be a virus. It cant be killed be extreme hit (fire) or by extreme cold. its complicated..
     
  12. HappyMonday

    HappyMonday Moderator

    I've never seen 'webby things' floating through the sky.
     
  13. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  14. ChemtrailsBelgium

    ChemtrailsBelgium New Member

    Maybe u never payed attention to it?
     
  15. ChemtrailsBelgium

    ChemtrailsBelgium New Member

    It is not chemwebs only. It is the obvious link (for me) that some organisation is spraying this morgellons unkillabe pathogen on the population and in the jetstream, falls down with the rain.. It falls down in the form of "chemwebs" but it is much more than that. The morgellons condition, simple observations like how it looks and what it does..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  16. hemi

    hemi Active Member

  17. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    I know what pathogens are - I was wondering what the "pathogen attributes" are you mention, and why you think they indicate something (although I did not actually ask that in the original question)

    chemwebs - Mick has already provided a link to discussion of them.

    In general you have made some assertionas about the nature of some thnigs, but not provided any actual ecvidence to back up thse asseertions. Are we to beleive that they are true simply becuse you say so? Or are we suposed to run around searching for answers to questions that do not actually contain any verifiable facts in the first place?

    I'm not prepared to.

    Debunking is not about agreeing or disagreeing with beliefs - it is about examining the EVIDENCE. If you do not provide any evidence they you will not get discussion of your topic beyond peole asking for evidence.
     
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  18. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    What is the obvious link for you?
     
  19. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    I have known Carnicom for over a decade. He never sent anything to the CDC. He sent a package to the Director of the EPA during a time period when someone was also sending anthrax there. The EPA does not analyze unidentified packages of material received by mail. I spent a year getting the EPA to respond to him, which they eventually did. They sent the package back to him.
    here is documentation for my statement:
    http://goodsky.homestead.com/files/FOIA.html

    I also communicated to Carnicom how he could determine if his webs matched the known amino acid characteristics of ordinary spider webs which have been documented to drift out of the sky since at least when Charles Darwin made his voyage on the Beagle. Carnicom has never had the specimen analyzed.
    I think Carnicom has not done so on purpose. Can you offer a better explanation?
    Here is documentation for that statement:
    http://goodsky.homestead.com/files/silk.html

    Before that, I reviewed another Carnicom claim where his claims were found to be false.
    here is documentation for that statement:
    http://goodsky.homestead.com/files/bariumreport.html

    If Carnicom had made a proper analysis of his material, there might be something to debunk. More likely, the analysis itself would debunk his claim.
    However, he has never submitted any sample to a proper scientific analysis, so no one can tell what it is.

    1. I repeat, no scientifc analysis has ever been done on any of his samples.
    2. He admits that he has NO medical expertise.
    3. No medical doctor has ever diagnosed any person with "morgellons".
    4. It is a fantasy, like feen or elfen.

    I don't debunk fantasies.
    When Clifford Carnicom can bring himself to do proper science instead of fantasy, then there wll be soething to debunk.

    I warn you, however, that a belief in morgellons is very dangerous to your health. For one, Carnicom has been known to conduct medical experimetation at his Institute on himself and others by probing their flesh with needles. He finally pulled out a piece of his flesh and claimed it was unusual, but as he always does, this was never professionally biopsied.

    Furthermore, Carnicom has claimed to have performed several dozen of these needle operations on other people.
    He mentions no procedure for sterility, no anaethesia, and no followup treatment for the wounds by a medical professional after these procedures.
    None of those "samples" dug out of people's mouth have ever been medically biopsied, either.

    For what purpose has he been putting these people through such pain?
    The patients certainly get nothing.
    Who benefits when Carnicom fails to do proper scientific testing after these painful procedures?

    Think careully before submitting yourself to Dr. Frankenstein Carnicom.
     
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  20. ChemtrailsBelgium

    ChemtrailsBelgium New Member

    http://www.carnicominstitute.org/articles/aerosols_morgellons_system_perspective.htm

    Is it just a coincidence that fibers from the environment, skin, dental(red wine test) are 100% the same. It so happens that these people have the skin sensations. It so happens that their blood is altered like bacteria would do. it so happens that these fibers are Alive and GROW and can change its own polarization(AI) please watcht his clip @ 0:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7HNKAH6us4 and mute it, because what he says is irrelevant, video will speak for itself. Please explain me, how a dental sample can change polarization? and it so happens that the filament has baceteria like organelles in it. floating spider webs DO NOT do the above. Too much off a coicidence for me.

    http://www.carnicominstitute.org/articles/morgobs3.htm and more are only observations. But at least he does them. At least he posts them online and is fully transparent. Either if he would make a mistake, the pictures dont lie. Take them to any doctor (as did I) or specialist and he will be like: wtf is this, i dont know.

    PM: When i had an open lesion and a 10x microscope i could SEE the fibers, clearly other character then a hair. Going out the skin and back in. I had to wash it 4 times and disinfect.. for the fibers to not grow back. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/6508255/IMG_0087.JPG. U see my blond normal hair crossing 'right bottom' of the screen and 4 - 5 fibers going out and back in my skin.
     
  21. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    My answer to Carnicom is Jay's post above. the man will publish anything and makes no effort to provide verifiable evidence.

    I am sorry you have a problem - but photos on a conspiracy theory siet are not actually proof of anything at all - for example see the photographs fibres on this page that are suposedly morgellans viz those that aer definitely not.
     
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  22. ChemtrailsBelgium

    ChemtrailsBelgium New Member

    Do u also look at his actual work or only the debunk stuff? at least u got an answer from the EPA. Pretty lame excuse that material was too few. When u're working on that level u dont need much to work with. i do not submit me too C.carnicom. Hi might makes mistakes yes, but a microscope doesn't lie and it doesn't look photoshopped.. I'm not digging the silk explination as the Morgellons look far from the spider silk. Simply that these fibers have internal organelles and spider silk does not. for the rest place read my last reponse to MikeC. I hope that helps. cheers
     
  23. ChemtrailsBelgium

    ChemtrailsBelgium New Member

    The moment u have it, u will know u have it. So because 1 fuzzball is fake ALL fuzzballs are fake. And u totally neglected all my other statements. Thanks.
     
  24. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    I didn't say that all fuzzballs are fake - I said that photos on a conspiracy site prove nothing.

    And you didn't make any other comments that were not covered by Jay's post.

    I am sorry you have bought into his hoax.
     
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  25. ChemtrailsBelgium

    ChemtrailsBelgium New Member

    I'm sory for u too.
    No comment on the change polarization. No comment on the observation. No comment on the system perspective. No comment on my picture. U give nothing. What kind of forum is this. Do u believe in chemtrails itself? or is that a hoax too?
     
  26. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Which fibers exactly?

    YOu don't think all fibers are the same, do you? So which fibers are you talking about here?

    The fibers that people say are spider silk are the fibers that you see floating in the air. Have you proven that THOSE fibers have "internal organelles", or are you referring to a different fiber?
     
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  27. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    Did you read Jay's post?

    AS for polarisatoin - there is no verifiable evidence there - who knows what is happening out of shot, what the substance is, whether there is actually a magnet involved at all?

    I did comment on the observations - that photographs are valueless. the accompanying observations are also valueless - where were they made? What is the data that supports them? How was the information gathered? How can it be checked? None of this is available.

    "I don't know what this is" from a doctor does not make it morgellans, or anything else - it makes it something that a doctor does not know about - news flash - they probably don't know much about synthetic carpet fibres (as an example)

    What system perspective?

    And your picture fits with the comments about pictures you have already ignored.

    I give nothing because there is nothing here that warrants any comment more than "so what?"


    Debunking - try come up with something that can be debunked - your belief cannot be debunked, nor can your anecdotal anecdotal evidence - other than to note that it is anecdotal and therefore pretty much useless for "proving" your case.

    Yep - you're getting it :)
     
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  28. FreiZeitGeist

    FreiZeitGeist Senior Member

    This one he/she claimed to be personally made:

    [​IMG]

    Obviosly, we have it to do with a "Morgellons-Victim" doing his own discovery.

    He/She stepped into Carnicoms Trap. Difficult to argue against it.

    I´m not a doctor, I had just played around with a microscope as a teenager. ChemtrailsBelgium really needs professional help, but I´m afraid that he/she would reject this.

    Blaming "Chemtrails" for your suffer, doesn´t help you, @ChemtrailsBelgium
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
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  29. ChemtrailsBelgium

    ChemtrailsBelgium New Member

    Good look when the new world order comes for your guns, implodes the economy and starts World War 3. Just wait, or get informed.
    Did u even watch my video?
     
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  30. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    I am informed, and I don't have guns. Moreover I don' believe your NWO conspiracy, and according to various CT'ers WW3 started in 2001, or 1950, or 1956, or 1963 or any one of a dozen other dates - didn't you get the memo?

    Only the first 4 minutes - that was enough to persuade me I didn't need to waste another 13 and a bit.
     
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  31. ChemtrailsBelgium

    ChemtrailsBelgium New Member

    so becasue some CT believers WW3 started in 2001 or any other shitty date, ALL must believe it. If WW3 happens the world will because 'end'. With all the nukes, bunkersbusters, bioweapons, neutron bombs u will know. And let me tell U, That the US and israel WILL intervene in Syria and in time also Iran. Can u see the implications? Don't u see the economy imploding?? Don't u see Quantetative Easing UNLIMITTED Isn't helping the economy but hurting it. Don't u .. no u don't. If i would look up "new world order quote's" U will quickly find out all the prominent leaders want it. It has even been admitted by Rockefellar himself!!! And u see them putting it into place. Are u from the USA boy? u like patriot act? NDAA? fluoride in water which Harverd Uni says LOWERS your IQ, yet nothing is being done. Do u like FEMA camps? RFID chip? NOTHING is done to go forward and help anything. Everything is being done to rip off our rights and make us slaves. Mark my words. The economy WILL implode by april 2013, Then u will see the true face of the NWO.

    AND PLEASE explain my video @ 2:35 (i did see that right?) that 1 plane leaves 2 trails so different. U have eyes but cannot see.. are we only supposed to believe the official story the state gives us? hmpfhf

    Ill start a new post and bash this NWO crap in your heads. Ill show so hard evidence that u will be forced to SEE. Maybe then u can believe that some shitters are spraying shit on us. And can u please answer my question (those lines with questionmarks behind it). Thanks
     
  32. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    CB. Please pick one subject at a time that you want to discuss, and present the actual evidence. Lists of broad claims without evidence will be deleted.

    And please be polite. Impolite posts may be edited or deleted.
     
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  33. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    [​IMG]

    That looks like a plane leaving essentially two different types of trail at the same time. The larger cloud is a regular exhaust contrail, and the the thinner trails are the contrails that formed inside the low pressure center of the wake vortices (kind of a hybrid exhaust/aerodynamic contrail). The separation is probably due to the exhaust contrail having larger crystals, and falling faster. The thinner vortex contrails fade away much quicker due to the smaller crystal size. This type of contrail requires marginal conditions, so you don't see it all the time. Usually it's just the exhaust contrail, sometimes it's just the wake contrail.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  34. ChemtrailsBelgium

    ChemtrailsBelgium New Member

    The bigger problem is that u nor I can confirm these claims as the trails weren't tested themselves. It's all a nice theorie.. U believe it is wing tip vortices and "aerodynamic contrails" and i believe it is wingspray.
    Here are some facts which science gave me on how a persistent contrail can exists. A persisntent contrail can only exist when the atmosphere the trail is going trough is very low temperature, high altidude,high humidity (70%) and (preferably) high pressure area. Right?! So why we see persistent trails when the atmosphere can't even carry them!!
     
  35. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    But WHY do you think it's "wingspray"? Seeing as it looks like a contrail, then what suggests it is not a contrail?

    Altitude and pressure are nothing directly to do with it. It's all to do with the temperature and humidity. Persistent trails obviously won't persist if they can't. It's always cold enough at some altitude, but it's actually quite tricky to determine humidity at specific locations. It varies as much as clouds vary, and changes just as quickly. Have a look here:

    http://contrailscience.com/broken-contrails/

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  36. solrey

    solrey Senior Member

    And how do you know what the exact conditions at flight level are at any given moment?

    Considering that I've studied atmospheric sciences and fluid physics, I know an aerodynamic contrail when I see one. A little over a month ago I was staying at a rental house outside of Portland, OR not far from the airport (PDX), close to and with a clear view of the landing approach. There were broken clouds at <1,000 feet and as I watched planes landing I witnessed several aerodynamic contrails as different planes flew through certain parcels of air. Some planes produced aerodynamic contrails at the wingtip only and some produced them across the entire wing. Some persisted for tens of seconds and some dissipated almost instantly. On a flight I took about a week ago I saw aerodynamic contrails form over the wings right before the tires lifted off the ground.

    It's obvious your knowledge of aviation and the atmosphere is quite limited.
     
  37. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    no - because you can't get your story straight between you I find all claims of WW3 starting/started/due to start to be unreliable.

    and who said when the nukes have to fly in WW3 - why did it have to have happened already jssut because the war is 10, 20, 30 years old?

    bookmarked in my "bring up" file for april 2013 :)

    Why can't it?

    Oh so NOW you can manage a little politeness :rolleyes:

    no.
     
  38. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    apparently WW3 has been oput on hold because Obama got elected.



    Paragraphing is as per the original!
     
  39. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    See here
     
  40. ChemtrailsBelgium

    ChemtrailsBelgium New Member

    WW3: See how it is unfolding. Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, Syria, Turkey, Israel, Iran. All rising tentions. Syria and Iran lately announced If the west would intervene in syria that iran would back syria. We all know that russia and china are at the side of iran.. And israel is urging for years a militairy strike on irans nuclear sites. Only a matter of time if u ask me. And its not that the people want war, because we dont (right? war is bad?).

    Chemtrails: a plane burns kerosine as fuel reulting in CO2 + H2O. Many times we see X coming out of wingtips, not engines, which raises questions. Yes vortex is possible but what if it's not. So then we have barium / aluminum rain and blood test .. Yes some tests might be fake, but that does not mean all tests are fake. Even mainstream media reported on this

    Oh now i get your picture, U're a checken right? jokes ^^. U can PM me when the collapse happens on what to do, but by then it will be too late. But the state & FEMA & DHS will help u for sure, in a way they see fit. cheers
     
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