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  1. Rory

    Rory Active Member

    A friend showed me this video. In the video the Japanese guy, from a distance, waves his hands around and puts to sleep, respectively, a herd of alpaca and a herd of bison. The owners of the animals both say it's unprecedented behaviour.



    The chaps name is Kanzawa Sensei. At 1:18 he explains that he "puts his fingers together" and that an "exchange of chi" takes place which can, he says, "put any animal to sleep."

    The host of the show tests this by taking him to two ranches. At the first, he demonstrates his ability on a herd of about a dozen alpaca. One by one, they lie down on the ground. The owner of the ranch, Cecilia Secka, describes their behaviour as "not normal" and "very surprising."

    At the second ranch, he does the same thing with a herd of bison, in front of owner Frank Donato and veterinarian Dr Frank McEwan. They are initially skeptical, and are quoted as saying that they have "never seen bison sit down when there is a human in their pen."

    Naturally, one by one, they all lie down.

    Up until this point, it looks like Kanzawa is doing his thing from a distance of a few hundred feet. However, after they all lie down, he walks right up to the dozing herd.

    "I'm getting a little nervy here," Donato says, "I've owned these animals for fifteen years, but I've never been as close as he's been." (8:18)

    Both the vet and the ranch owner, as well as the presenter of the show (Stan Lee's Superhumans) are "dumbfounded" and at a loss to explain what has happened.

    NOTE: It doesn't much look to me like most of the animals are actually asleep, but they do all sit down, lie down, lay their heads down, and appear absolutely docile.
     
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  3. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    well just a real quick google on alpacas.. seems they are like deer and do nap in the afternoon. so saying the behavior is unusual is suspect to me.


    nap.JPG selene-sleeping. 44bcf8513451cc91ed066e5905591894.




    Didnt spend alot of time on Bison since everytime i've visited the Beardsley zoo the Bison is lying down :(
    and when we visited the Badlands the Bison were also sitting down when we first drove through.
    So i'm going to assume when the vet says
    he is 'stretching the truth'

    nap1.JPG
     
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  4. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    note: of course when Crocodile Dundee did it, that was totally real! :)
    11_zps5ca38f71.
     
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  5. Svartbjørn

    Svartbjørn Senior Member

    You do not doubt the god that is Dundee! Heathen :p
     
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  6. Rory

    Rory Active Member

    And yet, the people who have lived and worked with these animals for years say that what happens with this guy is very much out of the ordinary.

    Also, I'd imagine that what the vet probably meant was, "it's not typical of bison to sit down [when someone's walking towards them]."
     
  7. Svartbjørn

    Svartbjørn Senior Member

    Thats putting words in the Vet's mouth though isnt it?
     
  8. Rory

    Rory Active Member

    Well, yes, of course. But so is thinking that this experienced vet totally believes that bison don't sit down. ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016
  9. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    i rewatched. and yes, that could be.

    but still the guy isnt walking toward them. he is right next to the door, rather far away. Everyone is remaining very still and calm. There are report of people walking up to Bison already lying down and petting them (then getting gored.. but still the bison sometimes waits until they are very close) in Yellowstone.

    The camera cuts in and out so the editing makes it look like the bison sit immediately. But we have no reason to think this is the case. I imagine if a doctor or farmhands enter a Bison pen they arent just standing still at a distance for some time, then creeping very slowly toward the Bison. It is more probable they enter the pen moving quickly and then move around in the pen moving quickly doing whatever chore tehy are there to do.

    I'll remain sceptical (at least) unless full, unedited footage is released.
    88.JPG
    door.JPG
     
  10. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    It's a heavily edited program that sets out to show some people have magic powers.
     
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  11. Rory

    Rory Active Member

    Here he is again in a video from Japanese TV:



    Looks like he does some kind of deer-like creature, an ostrich, some otters, a rabbit, and maybe some other ones besides.

    I suppose it could just be coincidence and they would all eventually sit down for anyone, but that sounds a bit far-fetched to me. ;)
     
  12. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Unlike magic?
     
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  13. Rory

    Rory Active Member

    Lol. True dat. Though I don't think people who practice tai-chi, et cetera consider "chi" to be "magic". ;)
     
  14. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    i still believe the only reason my boyfriend didnt get gored to death in the Badlands, when he was chasing them in his tye-dyed t-shirt is because i was telepathicly asking them "please dont kill him. i'm tired, it's late, i'm in the middle of nowhere and dont know where the hospital is".

    so.. i guess anything is possible.
     
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  15. Auldy

    Auldy Senior Member

    But not humans who can report on the experience, right? :p

    The show is a single camera show, yes? All the close ups of animals laying down that don't have him in frame doesn't necessarily mean they were shot during the hand waving, could just be other shots of them laying down under normal circumstances then cut together to make it look like he had this ability?
     
  16. Rory

    Rory Active Member

    You mean like it's a lie and a fake? They're all in on it together?

    I suppose that's possible. Gee, makes a man sad for the fate of humanity, contemplating such a thing... ;)

    A quick browse through the episode list seems to show it's more a program that looks at extraordinary, but not supernatural human beings. For example:

    Screen Shot 2016-12-07 at 10.48.55 PM.

    Here's a little snippet from the alpaca farm website:

    Screen Shot 2016-12-07 at 10.36.28 PM.
    http://www.sweetwateralpacas.com/bl...ch-chi-master-visits-sweet-water-alpaca-ranch
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016
  17. Auldy

    Auldy Senior Member

    I'm not saying that, just that the format and the way the piece was filmed and presented does leave a lot of holes in it. I feel clever editing has been used here to hype up the powers.
     
  18. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    20161208-062258-ceake.

    These are mostly freak-show acts. People who make a living via entertaining with their abilities, which they (and the show) greatly exaggerate for the purposes of entertainment. Take John Ferraro for example - parlaying his thick skull into a strongman act. He can't actually withstand the blow of a sledgehammer, he just performs a trick where his assistant breaks blocks that he holds over his head . His publicity photos make it look like he hammers nails through things, but he usually uses very wide headed nails and pushes them through things. When he actually tried hammering (with a towel wrapped around the nail) he injured his head.
    20161208-064408-2gdjn. 20161208-064308-xzo85.

    How does this relate to Kanzawa Sensei? It's a show that sets out to entertain by showing people with special powers. After investing several thousand dollars in the Kanzawa Sensei segment it's in their interest to edit the show to make it look like he's actually doing something. By far the simplest explanation is that they filmed for hours and eventually the animals sat down on their own. Then they edited it.

    Notice how they did not actually show him putting a horse to sleep, even though he calimed he could do any animal. Instead they chose small herds of animals that typical lay down to nap at some point in the day.
    20161208-065555-x4ekm.
     
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  19. Rory

    Rory Active Member

    Why take him for an example? Don't you think it's interesting that out of all the dozens of people featured in that show you would choose someone like him "as an example"? Why not the blind guy who uses echolocation to navigate the world - including by bicycle?

    Not sure I'd label those such as him "freak show entertainers" - or insinuate that they're "exaggerating their abilities".

    Also, the 'explanation' doesn't just require editing, but also the deceit, dishonesty, and 'acting' of the ranch owners. Not impossible, but doesn't look like it to me.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2016
  20. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    thats not necessarily so. the ranch guys and doctor, as i noted earlier may have just never spent the time before to quietly engage with bulls. And the llama woman maybe, the same- that she just never really paid attention. Like how people think they have never seen a persistent contrail before, because they never before really paid attention or had any reason to 'note' one.
     
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  21. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    Call me a nerd investigator, but it looks like the alpaca sequence took place over several hours....not rather quickly, like the video editing suggests. (like others mentioned above)
    At the beginning, when the alpaca were standing, the shadows of the fence (on the ground) were short, and the right-side shed had sunlight exposed on it's corrugated wall. But at the end, the fence shadows were quite long, and the corrugated shed wall was much more in shadow.

    shed_first_shadow. shed_second_shadow.

    So, if alpaca indeed like a mid-day nap, the film crew caught their normal nap at some point. The Chi Master wanted to move farther away, to allow this to happen. (because his Chi is so strong.)

    If his "Chi is stronger at a distance" on these animals, than I bet it works best when he is hidden behind a tree, or on the next hill away (or when he's back in Japan).
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2016
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  22. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    The idea of "horse whispering" to tame the wild or unruly house, has been around for millennia.

    There are sworn testaments that a person can have a special communication with a previously unknown/untamed animal.
    There are also those who believe that this is all a farce, and claim that a brief period of control is possible, but that it does not last beyond one or a few demonstrations.....and that demonstrations of this (temporary) ability were often accompanied with sales of services or tools to accomplish the same results.

    For equine, the modern term is called, "natural horsemanship".
    I don't claim to have personal experience with this. (Though I can usually become friendly with unruly dogs, by simply being patient, and by not being perceived as a threat....they will lay down and relax)

    Here is a review of the history, but without supporting links.....
    http://www.equine-behavior.com/Origins_of_horse_whispering1.htm


    640px-Camargue_naturally_approached_1a.
    "A human approaches a semi-wild horse in a non-threatening stance"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_horsemanship#/media/File:Camargue_naturally_approached_1a.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2016
  23. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    Alpaca napping...."cushing" as it's sometimes called....and in this case they have a barn to retreat to.


    As if we haven't ground this into the earth enough (napping on the ground in the afternoon)....I will visit an alpaca farm soon (in Minnesota)....and ask them about alpaca sleeping/napping and mid-day habits.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2016
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  24. Rory

    Rory Active Member

    Don't know if it's possible to work out how much time has passed by looking at the angles of the shadows from the fence posts. Here are a couple of stills from the beginning and end of the 'session':

    Screen Shot 2016-12-12 at 10.04.29 AM.
    Screen Shot 2016-12-12 at 10.07.32 AM.

    I still find it an odd idea that the alpaca owner could be so easily duped, and would stand there for an hour or more while the guy waved his hands around and they all naturally did what they were going to do anyway (as well as many other animal owners over the years) but I guess it's possible. I'll have to drop her a line and ask what's what.
     

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    Last edited: Dec 12, 2016
  25. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Here he is again


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhY-NLTTG68


    His name is 神沢瑞至 (translated as Kiyazawa Ruzu, Riku Kamisawa, or Risaku Kamizawa (seemingly depends on the context if Google can tell it's a name). He runs a healing touch school. If you search for 神沢瑞至 several other videos come up, more of the same thing, and most look quite old.
    http://www.kiryoujyuku.jp/