1. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    Youtuber Dutchsinse makes severe weather forecasts based on radar anomalies. He claims that the anomalies are "frequency manipulation" of the atmosphere. Most often the images he posts are due to anomalous propagation, ground clutter, or flying animals be they birds, bats, or bugs. There is a field of study now known as Radar Ornithology in which ornithologists are using weather and other radar to study the timing, speed, altitude, etc... of bird migrations. Flying animals can appear as discrete patches near the radar when individual flocks appear or as a generic low density "cloud" of returns surrounding the entire radar site. Dutch refers to the "cloud" of returns as "Circle Sweeps". Fall and Spring are prime time for such returns as mass bird migrations occur at night when the conditions are favorable.

    Posts #51 and #52 in the thread "Debunked: HAARP rings/scalar squares, etc. validated in paper from Stanford" addressed the phenomenon of nocturnal ground clutter associated with migrating birds. Post #52 gives both an example of Dutch's erroneous interpretation of the national radar mosaic and a birdwatcher/ornithologist's correct interpretation.


    During the vernal migrations, numerous species will move at night in large numbers under favorable wind conditions. Waves of birds will move on northerly winds from now into November with activity often peaking behind cold fronts when the NW winds are most favorable for southerly migration. Anything that flies through the path of a weather radar will reflect the signal and may show as a return on the screen. Mass bird migrations fill the lower elevations of the radar sweep with a low density return that shows as static-looking noise centered around the radar, Dutch's "circle sweep". The filtered data will will often show “rings” around the radars and Intellicast will often delete the non-precipitation returns from mosaics resulting in square holes in the display that Dutch refers to as “scalar squares”.

    The fall migration is beginning. I heard warblers yesterday evening during my run along the St. Johns River here in Florida. The species I heard do not breed here and it was the first I’ve heard from them since last spring when they migrated through on their way north.
    Bird watchers up north have noted their movement. Here is a report from Indiana. And some of the birds have apparently arrived already in the woodlands along my river.


    So the nocturnal clutter will move into its fall maximum soon and Dutch will likely notice and start to make “forecasts” based on his assumption that the non-precipitation returns are some kind of “energy” that the radars are either emitting or picking up (He is inconsistent on that point). When he does post such videos, notice the position of the "Circle Sweeps" in relationship to the weather systems. Most of the time they will follow the fronts in the fall as opposed to the spring when they precede fronts. This is because the birds are using the prevailing winds to move south and north respectively.



    Here are some examples of birds on radar from last fall’s migration:
    The current national composites from the last three nights show a lot of nocturnal clutter on the back side of the trough that has be over the eastern US. All three images are from 0200 UTC. The clutter co-occurs with the northerly winds and moves behind the slow moving weather system in the east. 20120902_015900. 20120904_020900. 20120905_020000.

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
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  2. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    The images in the preceding post were at 0200 UTC which is 10pm EDT. Clutter shows up a bit later further west. Here is an image from 0400 on 3 September 2012. Clutter is most intense on the west side of low pressure systems. Notice the clutter rings over western Kansas, Nebraska, the Dakotas and absense of rings to the east of that front.

    Radar imagery is available at the following website. A good way to view nocturnal activity is to select the 10 hour base reflectivity loop ending at 1000 UTC.
  3. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

  4. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    Here is a good example of how non-precipitation clutter typical of nocturnal mass bird migration looks after being flitered through Intellicast. A Dutchsinse subscriber uploaded the following video yesterday but the imagery she uses is from the night of August 31. She sticks to his terminology and calls the false echoes "HAARP Rings".


    The unfiltered clutter looks like a big blob of low reflectivity (notice the Wisconsin area that is the focus in the youtube video).

    20120901_025800. 20120901_055800.

    This post is to illustrate how Intellicast renders this type of return and how Dutch and his believers interpret those returns.
  5. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

  6. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

  7. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    Understanding Radar and Birds: Part 1



    This statement:

    The pulses of energy scattering off of birds closer to the radar are lower in altitude, meaning that reflected energy will pass through and out of the layer of bird migration

    Explains why the bird migration clutter appears as rings on some composite radar images. The echos are in a discrete layer so that the radar beam only interects the targets in a narrow band there is a gap between the coverage of the different tilt-angle scans. If the birds are at 1000m then the 0.5 degree scan will hit them far out from the radar and draw a ring at that distance and the 3.35 degree scan will intersect them closer in and draw a ring there.
  8. Trigger Hippie

    Trigger Hippie Senior Member

    Nice series of posts Scombrid. Great read.

    Here's an animated gif I made from one of the links you provided showing how flocks of birds take to the skies as sunset moves across the continent. The animation is from about 7pm to 10pm EDT, Sept 13.


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  9. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    Storm system moving up Appalachians and east coast with massive migration occurring on the north winds behind it last night (and the night before that). Strangely Dutch did a weather post yesterday about the severe weather but did not mention the rings. His subscibers noticed:

    Prime fall migrating weather from Minnesota to northern Alabama tonight. Will a "ring" forecast be forth coming? If he issues a ring forecast tonight. Why not last night or the night before that?
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  10. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    Spring migration is here. Seems a bit early. But the nocturnal clutter that is typical of bird migration is becoming a regular feature of the national radar mosaic when southerly winds blow ahead of storm systems. Those that erroneously believe that the nocturnal clutter is some kind of "freqency spike" of "energy" being beamed at the sky to alter the weather have begun to notice.



    The second video linked has some great captures that illustrate how the "rings" appear ahead of weather in spring. Shame he thinks that the rings are causing/altering the weather as opposed to understanding that it is birds responding to the weather. What to me is a fascinating phenomenon is cause for fear for others because they have been lied to by hoax promoters and do not have the basic knowledge of weather, biology, etc... that would allow them to avoid being hoax in this way.

    I posted the following to his video comments:

      • The blobs of clutter around each radar station at night in clear air ahead of the advancing fronts is migrating birds. The radar can't distinguish between a rain drop or a flying animal. It just detects objects moving through the air and paints colors on the maps to depict the strength of the reflected signal. There is a branch of ornithology that uses weather radar to track bird migration. Google search "radar ornithology" "nexrad bird migration" etc... for more info .

      • Check the radar again in the fall (late August through October) and you'll see the same sort of nocturnal clutter but it will occur behind the fronts as the birds will then be moving on the north winds behind the fronts as opposed to on the south winds ahead of the fronts.
    Every wonder how all the song birds that over-winter in South America seem to just "appear"? It is because they do most of their migrating at night when they have a tail wind to help.

  11. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

  12. ssfor27

    ssfor27 Active Member

  13. solrey

    solrey Senior Member

    They're talking about me actually. That youtuber "rushfan9thcmd" started posting vids as migration was ramping up. I made a few comments on some of those vids, providing written details, links and search terms, with the result being a whole slew of vids with descriptions making fun of the idea that migrating birds show up on radar. His comments make me wonder if he even believes that birds migrate in the first place.

    Here's the most recent example:

    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
  14. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    I have been ignoring them, mostly.

    That's impressive, rushfan has dedicated an entire page of videos to you.

    I'm putting him back on proverbial ignore. He has no clue how radar works and doesn't care to have a clue.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
  15. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    I did post the following to Rush's latest:

  16. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    Added the following:

    • ·
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  17. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    Have to wonder. Do these believers really think that they are correctly interpreting radar and that all of academia from professional meteorologists to ornithologists and chiroptologists at various universities are either completely wrong or in on the conspiracy and are really providing cover for TPTB and the NEXRAD weather control program?
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  18. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    Yes. Just with clouds and contrails, they are self interpreting.
  19. solrey

    solrey Senior Member

    Yeah, like that youtuber weatherwar101. They stumbled across a video of heterodyning in an audio/visual format, like psychedelic interference patterns, started claiming various radar signatures such as gust fronts and bird migration were showing heterodyning and have now incorporated heterodyning into the foundation of their narrative. From their latest vid:

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  20. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    Dutchsinse says:

    Dutch and his believers act like I just made up this whole bird on radar thing.

    Weather Radar Quantification of Bird Migration
    Author(s): Sidney A. Gauthreaux, Jr.Source: BioScience, Vol. 20, No. 1 (Jan. 1, 1970), pp. 17-20

  21. ssfor27

    ssfor27 Active Member

    WE take turns spewing crap about radar? Let's examine my all time favorite Dutchism to see who is truly spewing crap.....

    dutch 9-26-13.JPG

    "The only way to see this pulse is by seeing the lack of this pulse"....o_O

    That.....is an absolute classic......
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  22. solrey

    solrey Senior Member

    If you liked that one...

    You're a damn good actor there ssfor27, had me totally convinced that you were actually a bona fide NWS radar technician. Come to think of it, I had myself convinced that I studied electronics, meteorology, radar and other aerospace related stuff. That guy is the master of psychological projection.

    About those vids he references...

    The first one is a demonstration of microwave power transmission. All radio waves can be converted into electricity, but microwaves can be converted rather efficiently with rectifiers and are not substantially attenuated by the atmosphere. So they're not exactly establishing an electric current between two points. Another key point is the low attenuation factor. If microwaves heated the atmosphere as Michael claims, how in the hell could those frequencies be efficient enough to be used for wireless power transmission or satellite communications?

    The second vid just shows an arc between two electrodes in a vacuum chamber. It's a stretch to say that "plasma" was created in a vacuum chamber although a discharge channel is technically in the plasma state. A weak arc between the electrodes was first powered with a hand-held taser gun, then the narrator says the experimenter "took apart a microwave and tried that", which in turn produced a much more powerful arc. Anyone who understands electronics knows that microwaves contain a high-power high-voltage transformer capable of producing an arc like that. Nowhere did they mention that they actually produced microwaves by including the magnetron in the circuit or otherwise aiming the magnetron at the chamber. The nature of the arc indicates they just used the transformer so the experiment had nothing whatsoever to do with transmitting microwaves.

    The third video has been addressed elsewhere on the forum. The "demonstration" simply included a laser shining through the bottom of a column of water to, ever so slightly, heat a metal plate at the top. No vortex was created and there was really nothing to see, but the producers inserted some graphics that have fooled Michael into thinking they made a "tornado in a bottle with microwaves". It was a cheesy, meaningless demonstration but Michael takes it as unequivocal proof. Go figure.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  23. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    We got our first good frontal passage of the season in Florida last week. It wasn't a big change in airmass but the deepening low in the mid-Atlantic pushed stiff North winds well on past Florida across the gulf. It was time for the trans-Gulf migrants to make a departure. Birds had been building up along the Gulf Coast and Florida Peninsula for a couple of weeks as indicated by the noturnal migrations over the continent and as confirmed by bird spotters on the ground. One day last week I noticed that the nocturnal radar clutter of migrating birds over land was quickly replaced by a lot of south bound targets heading out over water from coastal sites just after sunrise and continuing well into the day. I said to myself, wow I'm witnessing a big diurnal transgulf migration. Usually the radar clutter from birds dissappears in the day as the birds settle down to rest and feed. But when the wind is right to cross the Gulf of Mexico they just boogey.

    Well, the birdwatchers noticed the same radar returns that I did and they confirmed birds. Birds that departed the Peninsula en route to Cuba and points beyond flew over the Florida keys. Bird watchers tracked them on NEXRAD and then spotted them with binoculars.


    The big slug of birds that had come south on the 7th when Dutch posted a video about "frequency pollution" was pouring off the continent on north winds during the day on the 8th.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  24. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    I would like to post that link to Dutch's facebook where he has posted yet another clip of clutter that is certainly migrating birds. But I will not post to his page using my account.
  25. ssfor27

    ssfor27 Active Member

    I saw that too -with the use of the frowning emoticon....and no explanation after that....getting all sorts of people stirred up again, one of them reiterating the murder accusations under the comments...it really makes me sick to see so many people led astray so gullibly....amazing that none of his subscribers seemed to notice that NONE of the previously "pulsed" areas had any significant, let alone severe, weather following last week's "events", and there is little, if anything, in this week's outlook for those areas either. The shoe only seems to fit when they need it to I guess.....

    Oh and if you read this Dutch, please, I ask again, come join us here for a civil discussion that is not limited by the moderation of a YouTube video or Facebook....I would really like to discuss the workings of a National Weather Service radar with you, since all of us here "spew" according to you..
  26. ssfor27

    ssfor27 Active Member

    Thinking this might be his response? Funny how most of the weather shown in this screenshot is neither severe nor is it in the majority of the areas that were allegedly "pulsed" in any of his recent frowny faced posts.....

    Here's a series of questions for you Dutch, since it seems you are visiting this page.....

    Why do "they" only pulse those areas from the mid central to the south eastern United States this time of the year? Why is the west coast never "frequency blasted" in the same manner? Why are the peninsulas of Michigan as well as northern Wisconsin always spared as well it seems? Why is it every fall and spring, "they" choose to blast the same areas of the country at the same time of the year, while sparing everyone else this "frequency pollution" as you called it? Why do we only see these "blooms" in the evening hours and not during the day?


  27. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

  28. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    Tell us Dutch, why have ornithologists been claiming that these types of nocturnal returns on radar are birds for several decades? e.g.

    Weather Radar Quantification of Bird Migration
    Author(s): Sidney A. Gauthreaux, Jr.Source: BioScience, Vol. 20, No. 1 (Jan. 1, 1970), pp. 17-20

    Why do all that meteorologists in the country ignore these clutter returns on the radar and dismiss them as non-precipitation targets?
  29. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    Most of the "pulsed" areas in the Oct-13 are not experiencing significant weather.

    Plus, the region that was "blasted" on October 7 experience a week of beautiful weather.

    Why a "confirmation" post for the Oct-13 to Oct-14 period when weather followed the clutter but nary a peep about the weather in the days after the October 7 "screenshot" that Dutch posted?
  30. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    Shouldn't he be like DEAD now, if he revealed that?
  31. ssfor27

    ssfor27 Active Member

    At it again......now he has developed an affinity for Intelliweather and it's use of puffy looking graphics to make more impact in his posts...


    Latest report on migration:


    Now with that said, not ALL of these "blooms" are birds migrating - due to the seasonal variances in temperature, pressure, humidity, etc, in the evening hours, you're going to see a lot of super-refraction of the radar beam going on - explained here

    This is verifiable by examining the .5 degree reflectivity cut for many of these radars in this image. You can select this data using another of Dutch's favorite tools, the College of Dupage NEXRAD page.You will see numerous examples of Dutch's "ghost" or "stationary" storms - typically wind farms - strong returns that are not moving - meaning the radar beam is hugging the earth's surface more than normal. Dodge City, KS and Altus AFB OK are just 2 examples of WSR-88D radars that were showing these stationary return anomalies this morning when I looked at them. They also happen to be part of Dutch's most recent example of "pulsing" blooms.......

    Again Dutch, I ask, why are the blooms in your most recent example ONLY BEHIND the cold front - if "they" are trying to "feed" this system, wouldn't those blooms logically be appearing ahead of the approaching front if "they" are trying to manipulate the weather?

    Oh, and now we have "frozen haarp rings".....sigh.....and we're the ones spewing? Sad the way his fans will buy into such nonsense. I guess in 6 years working this radar I didn't know it could freeze anything or produce "cloud condensation nuclei". I better get back in the books....
    frozen haarp rings.JPG
  32. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    Hah. I logged in to post about that "frozen haarp ring" post of his.

    Does he really think that radar color indicates temperature? Does he really not know that intellicast is extrapolating with other data in order to indicate whether precip displayed on the radar is snow or rain?
  33. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    Absolutely. I have been round the block and back with Dutch about anamolous propagation. I made a post to the effect that biological targets are but one of many sources of non-precipitation returns on radar. I can't remember in what thread though. He's been informed about AP. He's been provided the coordinates of wind farms. He and his followers just conclude that the wind farms are transmitting "frequency". I explained why the radar was lighting up along an interstate at 4 to 5 AM on a cold, clear, still morning.... All deleted from his channel.

    And sinse this thread is about birds on radar, here is Dutch's response to me on this video:

    I posted a citation of a paper about tracking bird migration with weather radar. That was how he responded.

    I ask his followers, why does he ignore the decades old paper about tracking birds with weather radar? Does he do you believe that the ornithologists are lying about the "frequency pollution" being birds scattering the radar signal instead? Not just the ornithologists though. Are all the meteorologists in the country, whether government or private, deliberately ignoring and/or covering up these "frequency pollution" events which cover entire regions and are quite obvious on radar?
  34. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    What's the scoop on Mick being 'outed'? Funny he's involved with all what, and what other guy? His company handles radar data graphics?
  35. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member


    This youtuber has ignored all evidence that his interpretation of weather radar is incorrect and has resorted to accusing people that disagree with him of murder.
  36. ssfor27

    ssfor27 Active Member

    Yah I got into it with him (Rushfan) too once. For every question I'd ask him, my answer was always a patent. When he asked me what I had to refute weather modification, I told him 6 years of working for the NWS as an electronics technician and knowing without a shred of doubt in my mind that everything they claim is not possible and irresponsible in the ways it leads others away from the truth and reality of what is actually happening. Of course then I was attacked as a government shill and disinformation spreader.

    What I keep going back to round and round, and have mentioned here numerous times, is why have all these "investigators" NEVER taken the time to visit their local weather office and take their "investigations" to the heart of the matter?

    If you read this Dutch, or Rush, or Tatoot, or any of the rest of you accusing the NWS of murder, why is that? Why have you never visited the St. Louis NWS office Dutch, as opposed to posting vids of it taken from afar, as if the office is some super secret heavily guarded facility? Is that because that's the idea you wanted to portray to your viewers? Every office offers organized tours to the public, and if you can catch an electronics tech on a day when they are in the office and not too busy, you MIGHT even get to go see the radar, or at least everything but the radome. All the "answers" you're looking for are right there, waiting to be seen.
  37. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    Here's a new one. I'd start a new thread, but.... dutchScreenshot (338).
  38. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

  39. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    I really can't comprehend how these people's minds work.
    I must be square.
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  40. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    Rushfan Says:

    I posted the following comments:
    scombrid2 1 second ago

    So tell us all, why are these types of radar returns behind the fronts in the fall and ahead of the fronts in the spring and why are they largely absent from radar in winter? (yeah there are non-precipitation returns on radar all year but I'm talking about this widespread nocturnal clutter with which you are currently obsessed).


    • [​IMG]
      1 second ago
      Its funny, I saw the radar when I went to bed last night and went out this morning to see what new birds had arrived in Florida and then thought to check this channel and look what we have. Birds are piling up down here waiting for a big north wind to help them cross the Gulf of Mexico to their winter homes. Will be a mass movement off the Gulf Coast and Florida out to sea when the second from comes through and switches the wind.
    • [​IMG]
      1 second ago
      badbirdz2 dotwordpress dotcom says that you are seeing birds on the radar. Maybe you should go set the ornithologists, bird watchers, and professional meteorologists straight on this issue.
    1 second ago

    The front has stalled, but birds are still on the move. A second front is behind the stalled front, this front should invade the state in a few days and will likely kickstart the stalled front. Migration was most notable south of the stalled frontal boundarybut a northeasterly wind pattern prevailed overnight. Winter is fast approaching, birds on the move are Eastern Phoebe, Savannah Sparrow, Yellow-bellied Sapsucker, Blue-headed Vireo and Palm Warblers

    Bird Watchers Say: http://badbirdz2.wordpress.com/2013/10/22/stalled-front-over-central-fl/

    The front has stalled, but birds are still on the move. A second front is behind the stalled front, this front should invade the state in a few days and will likely kickstart the stalled front. Migration was most notable south of the stalled frontal boundary. Winds were mostly slack, but a northeasterly wind pattern prevailed overnight. With that being said we expect the best birding to be at inland sites. Winter is fast approaching, birds on the move are Eastern Phoebe, Savannah Sparrow, Yellow-bellied Sapsucker, Blue-headed Vireo and Palm Warblers. Be on the lookout for western strays, late October/early November is a great time to find a Say’s Phoebe, Western Tanager, Vermilion, Ash-throated and Brown-crested Fly, even a Tropical Kingbird among other possible rarities.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013