1. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    I see that Anthony Hilder's Aircrap.org is now deleting my comments even when I point out that they are making false claims that contrails only form at less than -70F. The latest post there discusses Japanese "chemtrails" spraying Plague infected fleas from biplanes at tree top level.
     
  2. firepilot

    firepilot New Member

    My comments do not show up. It does not list that i am banned, or that the post is moderated, they just do not appear
     
  3. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I'm surprised your comments ever got on there. Aircrap is WAY over the line into true-believer territory. They have zero interest in anything that might possibly contradict their narrative.

    The are heavily into the quackery side of things as well. That's an especially hard area for believers to debate rationally. It's also a toehold for them to spread their ideas into the more new-age segments of the population who like things like naturopathy, raw food, and acupuncture.

    The one ad they have is for "Body Electrician", and goes to a dead site. It's this guy, Wil Spencer, on Facebook:

    http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=137499929597931&topic=819

    Their audience includes those who think they have multiple chemical sensitivities, or are electrosensitives.

    It's people who thrive on fear, but reject science. Unfortunately most of them are too far down the rabbit hole.
     
  4. firepilot

    firepilot New Member

    Well does Tony Hilder do it because he is a true believer, or that he is just trying to make money?
     
  5. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I'm pretty sure he's a true believer.
     
  6. tryblinking

    tryblinking Member

    Worst of all, maybe he's both?
     
  7. firepilot

    firepilot New Member

    Who knows. It seems that he has promoted most any conspiracy, in an attempt to make a buck or two from it, that i really do not know what he believes and what he does not believe.
     
  8. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    I see that G. Edward Grifffin is saying that the Coalition Against Geoengineering wants to;
    I'm not so sure that lidar can accomplish what they want to do, especially from the ground.

    I also see that the Coalition's website has a new face but the same content.
    http://www.coalitionagainstgeoengineering.org/
     
  9. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIDAR

    It can't really analyze the chemical composition, but it can measure the amount of some individual gasses. It's more intended for getting a distribution map of one gas. I doubt it would be much use for an aerosol/cloud - other to measure the optical density.
     
  10. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  11. Ross Marsden

    Ross Marsden Senior Member

    Before It's News is an "alternative news" site that publishes stories from anyone who cares to register. It carries a steady stream of Chemtrail posts from a group of "authors" who seldom respond to anything in the comments to their posts.

    Anyhoo, this recent post, "Pilot Speaks Out About Chemtrails And HAARP" purports to be written by a pilot. It does not consider anything about the thermodynamic aspect of contrails but touches on most of the chemtrail meme themes including chemical ingredients, HAARP, Morgellons, Monsanto, reduced sunlight, ...

    The style is very diffuse and it is hard to find anything solid to argue. However, this caught my eye, "I love machinery whether it be a bulldozer, boat, plane, [....], autos, buses, etc. If it is heavy and moves, I love it! This should give a person a good idea why I should have no trouble understanding how Chemtrails and HAARP function." How does that logically follow? Non sequitur! I am interested in those things, too, but I have no trouble seeing that chemtrails and the supposed HAARP connection is rubbish.

    The last commenter is one Lou Aubuchont of Parsonsfield, Maine. This is a player from the earliest years of chemtrails; earlier perhaps than Jay Reynolds!
     
  12. Marcel

    Marcel Guest

    WITWATS now have a Facebook Page
    http://www.facebook.com/#!/WhatintheWorldAreTheySpraying.

    Quite active, with the usual photos of contrails with the titles " Aggressive Spraying", "Airborne Poison" etc. etc, and a couple of posters wanting to shoot down planes because of Morning Glories in Australia.
     
  13. firepilot

    firepilot New Member

    That either was not written at all by a pilot, or it was a prank, that was meant to be obviously spotted by a pilot, but that would fool chemmies.

    The part about calling the Department of Transportation, regarding an aircraft in the air, and referring to a congressman as an "MP", total giveaways that its not real. Now, whether it was a chemmie trying to be a pilot, or someone trying to fool the chemmies and make them look silly.
     
  14. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The "MP" thing might be Canadian. Barry Davis claims to live in Vancouver.

    He seems to be verging towards the fringe. Not a lot you can do with those people.

    Reporting a fuel leak in a jet from the ground does not sound like something that actually ever happens. So no wonder he did not get far with whatever official he called.

    Interesting he say:

    Which sounds like a familiar story. Once someone starts to get interested in trails, they start noticing them. Hence they think there was a sudden change, as they did not notice them before. Of course it's very difficult to convince them that they were not there before. Invariably they have excellent eyesight, observational skill, and perfect memory.
     
  15. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    This is by Barry T. Davis of Vancouver, BC. the atms/cl in his signature stands for
    Advanced Toastmaster- Silver, Competent Leader
    Toastmasters is a club for people to develop public speaking skills.
    Many foreign speakers use it to practice their english skills, also lonely hearts who love to talk and need a captive audience.
    Barry has learned to produce words, but sometimes they pass through his brain before being analyzed for content..
    Spraying cancer?
    Think about that one!
     
  16. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Yes that list of ingredients is a classic bit of nonsense:

    I think there's something of a dividing line in chemtrail adherents. There's those who just think it's covert geoengineering, and then there's those who think it's deliberate poisoning for depopulation. The latter tend to be the more
    "open minded" believers, and are not open to contradictory theories. They also tend to be more into their health problems, and quackery.
     
  17. tryblinking

    tryblinking Member

    This piece is packed full of errors, half truths, and lies. Obviously it would take more than his wordcount to address them all. Mostly it's the vagueries as you say, but sometimes he just throws out plain bullshit:
    Luckily sweeping falsehoods like this undermine any credibility.

    The question I keep coming back to is this:
    Why not? If he had proof and not speculation, why not just lay it out? Surely telling us he is unwilling reveals the strong possibility of him having NO evidence. Which makes me wonder, why use that website at all. Why has no one simply posted official documents and lab reports, or indeed any pertinent 'evidence' somewhere truly open, like wikileaks?

    It's that silence of evidence which speaks most loudly against those who have fallen for the hoax.
     
  18. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    I am wondering if many of these sites "share" IP's to be blocked.....if there is an IP block list shared among chemtrail site admins, to weed out "the undesirables", like us......lol
     
  19. firepilot

    firepilot New Member

    Strange that the person mentions DOT, instead of Nav Canada, and mentions a federal representative, and not Member of Parliament. Yeah I agree he is most likely Canadian, but a pilot, no way.
     
  20. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    This is a very interesting concept for visualizing.
    Jet Trails, 2007 60x96"
    Depicts 11,000 jet trails, equal to the number of commercial flights in the US every eight hours.
    Click the image to zoom in

    http://www.chrisjordan.com/gallery/rtn/#jet-trails
     
  21. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

  22. Ross Marsden

    Ross Marsden Senior Member

  23. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Environmentally Safe SRM Strategies Using Liquefied Air
    Massmann, M.; Layton, K.
    American Geophysical Union, Fall Meeting 2010, abstract #GC31A-0861
    This presentation includes several SRM strategies to offset global warming using the large scale release of liquefied air (Lair). Lair could be used to cool large atmospheric volumes as it expands from a liquid below minus 300 degrees F (-184 degrees C) into ambient air, which could trigger new clouds or brighten existing clouds. It is hoped that the potential feasibility and benefits of this concept would be found to warrant further development through funded research. A key trait of Lair is its enormous expansion ratio in warming from a cold liquid into ambient air. At sea level, this expansion is about 900 times. At high altitudes such as 50,000 ft (15 km) the same amount of Lair would expand 5,000 times. One strategy for this concept would be to release Lair at 50,000 ft to super-cool existing water vapor into reflective droplets or ice particles. This could create very large clouds thick enough to be highly-reflective and high enough for long residence times. Another strategy to consider for this concept would be to release CCN’s (such as salt particulates) along with Lair. This might enable the formation of clouds where Lair alone is insufficient. Water vapor could also be added to assist in cloud development if necessary. The use of these elements would be non-polluting, enabling the concept to be safely scaled as large as necessary to achieve the desired results without harming the environment. This is extremely important, because it eliminates the risk of environmental damage that is a potential roadblock for most other SRM schemes. Further strategies of this concept would include formation of clouds near the equator to maximize reflected energy, creating clouds over ocean regions so as to minimize weather changes on land, and creating clouds over Arctic regions to minimize the melting of sea ice. Because this concept requires only existing technology to implement, research and implementation timelines could be minimized (unlike most proposed schemes that require new technologies). Energy required for this concept should be very reasonable. Each ton of Lair would require about 345 kW-hrs of energy or less to produce. Assuming power costs 0.1 per kW-hr, energy cost per ton of Lair would be about 34.50 US. Each 100-ton payload of Lair would then cost $3,450 US or just 12.4 cents per gallon (3.3 cents per liter). More extreme weather events are predicted as the planet warms. It should be noted that Lair might also be used to help limit the destructiveness of these events. The same aircraft and Lair tanks from this concept could be used to perform missions that cool the “heat engines” of severe weather, limiting hurricane strength, reducing the likelihood of tornado’s and limiting excessive rain that causes flooding. Also, by loading the Lair tanks with liquid nitrogen, it might be possible to help control large wildfires using wind to blanket fire lines with gaseous nitrogen. Therefore this concept could have multiple uses and solve several problems related to global warming, as well as help to limit global warming itself.
    http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2010AGUFMGC31A0861M
     
  24. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    I haven't looked at the google search trends for chemtrails for quite awhile.
    http://www.google.com/trends?q=chemtrails
    Notes:
    -You can see the WITWATS uptick December 2010, but it has faded, remarkably
    I think I can see the summer downturn most years when looking at the US stats alone-one mention by Prince on PBS in 2009 garnered half the hits that WITWATS did, but wasn't sustainable
    -interesting how much interest by famous people and music groups gets the buzz rolling
    -the US isn't even on the top ten list for regions searching
    -In the US, it's a west coast thing
    -The Balkan popularity is interesting, don't really know exactly where that is coming from
     
  25. Ross Marsden

    Ross Marsden Senior Member

    11 News Special Report: Deadly Contrails in the Sky?

    The report quotes a local chemtrail photographer Derrick Snider, Rosalind Peterson, Retired FBI agent Ted Gunderson, and James Ayers, a Professor of Atmospheric Chemistry at Colorado Mesa University. Pretty unsurprising stuff. Typical poker-faced media approach of giving both sides a fair crack.

    Interestingly, a n overwhelming consensus of the comments is a criticism of the channel for running a stupid "news" story. The 99% speaks!
     
  26. GregMc

    GregMc Senior Member

    -The Balkan popularity is interesting, don't really know exactly where that is coming from[/QUOTE]

    hi Jay. I'd suggest the balkan interest stems from the rantings of Serbian fruitloop Nikola Aleksic, who has been trying to sue the Serbian govt because of "chemtrails" .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erRNyxii7NY
     
  27. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Never underestimate Ted Gunderson.
    He passed away nearly four months ago, yet his spectre still labors on!

    So, either this reporter:
    1. Worked on this extensive Special Report for over three months
    2. Did the research for his Special Report by watching youtube:eek:
     
  28. Ross Marsden

    Ross Marsden Senior Member

    LOL Yes, when I was writing that I vaguely recalled a report that he had passed on, and I meant to check so that I could have a poke with it. I got distracted (moving house) and hit the post button. Thanks for the follow up.
     
  29. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    It seems that the Occupiers are getting outnumbered and co-opted by the fringe...

     
  30. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Yes in the various truther and chemtrail forums there was a lot of talk about how to "educate OWS". Yet another example of how harm can be done, when legitimate concerns are overshadowed by illusory concerns.
     
  31. PCWilliams

    PCWilliams Active Member

  32. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    PC, I see they have deleted the comments there at KTAC at this point, the commentary was very lively and I made many which linked back to contrailscience and metabunk in my comments. Go to google news and set up a personal search for "chemtrails", then visit it regularly. You can promote your video among ordinary people who might be on the fence, folks who need resources to debunk believers, and even challenge true believers who will no doubt be having their say. They want infowar? Give it to them from both barrels!
     
  33. PCWilliams

    PCWilliams Active Member

    I was wondering what happened to the comments. I wanted to read the debate and put up a link to my video. I'll take your google advice and set up a search. Good thinking.
     
  34. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    This is really catching on, many youtubes describe an easy way to provide "Peace of Mind".
    Who knew?
     
  35. PCWilliams

    PCWilliams Active Member

    Oh. My. Gawd.

    I went from gawking at the screen in disbelief to outright belly laughing!!!

    BRB ... i need to purchase some stock in vinegar ... :cool:
     
  36. tryblinking

    tryblinking Member

    forget 'big oil', this is obviously a ploy by 'big vinegar'.
     
  37. PCWilliams

    PCWilliams Active Member

    LOL! Holy crap THAT is funny!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  38. solrey

    solrey Senior Member

    Too funny. And some of the comments...

    Just back away slowly...Is there any hope for someone that far down the rabbit hole? Just askin'.

    cheers
     
  39. SR1419

    SR1419 Senior Member

    Yes, I have seen the vinegar meme for sometime now- at least a year or more.

    Its funny at first...and then sorta sad and scary at how far gone some of these folks seem...completely devoid of any basic logic or reasoning skills...and I mean that not as an insult- merely and observation.

    This cat was one of the first I saw use it:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePgOzKRoTa0
     
  40. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Yeah, hard towinow what to do with the more out-there folk. Generally there's not a lot to be gained from engaging them.