1. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Athens , GA news editor wrote an article:
    http://onlineathens.com/stories/013011/opi_778155848.shtml

    Later:
    [EX=Jim Thompson]The Editor's Desk
    Athens Banner-Herald

    Published Monday, May 09, 2011
    AT LEAST I'M NOT ALONE:
    A few weeks back, I wrote about "chemtrails." That's the name given to the condensation trails behind jet aircraft by people who believe the trails are actually chemicals being dispersed into the atmosphere for some nefarious purpose.

    My thoughts found their way digitally to the editor of another Southern newspaper, who wrote:

    "For the past two days I've been harassed by a somewhat prominent citizen in this community who cannot believe I won't take a photo of jet contrails and write a story exposing the vast conspiracy to ... well, do something - he's not real clear on that.

    This morning I threw him out of my office, something I have never done before in 37 years in this business - verbally only, but he (and everyone here) could tell I meant it."


    [/EX]
     
  2. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Thanks to everyone who has helped

    I've been doing some commentary (2 pages) following this news article, and want to thank Mick and others who have helped gather information which I could refer to:

    http://www.katc.com/news/contrails-and-chemtrails/
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Who doubts that besides reading the article itself, many, including Murphy individually & Close Associates are also getting down into the comments section. Their promotion of the article is actually working against them as many who have no idea get exposed to somethng outside MJM's sphere of influence. I really enjoy taking the battle to the top and this has been fun.

    One interesting person who hasn't shown up in the debate is MJM himself. Just like Carnicom and William Thomas, they send out their worker bees while they hide.

    BTW, Dave Baker is the meteorologist at KATC, and I congratulate him.
    http://www.katc.com/news/dave-baker2/

    But I'm sure Dave didn't appreciate the threat, which was very bad form.
     
  4. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    Jeez you've gotten a tough one there Jay!!
     
  5. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

  6. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Guest

    In case someone wants to know what the woman is talking about, Morgellons is an element which merged with the chemtrail hoax about 2006, though it started earlier. It is a very sick hoax when you realize that it has been promoted by both well meaning and delusional people, medical quacksters, and outright fabricators. The last two profit or derive pleasure from the fears of very weak people some of whom have severe mental problems.

    A least one person committed suicide over this hoax which makes it possibly worse than chemtrails.

    So sick that I couldn't bear further contact with it. Extremely sick stuff.

    There is this skeptical site, I think the owner had enough, too. To see the fabrications, just read the comments, if you dare.
    http://morgellonswatch.com/
     
  7. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Interesting about you and that site, Mick. I do recall that there was someone making comments there that were wholly fantasy, but seemed to be designed by a rational person to lure others in to the world of morgellons.
    Did you ever get that impression?
     
  8. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  9. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Well, there's 14,000 comments there, so quite possibly.

    Certainly some of the quacks who were offering a diagnosis (and hence treatment) of Morgellons, seemed to be more salesmen than scientist. But for many of the people involved, their minds were made up, and their interest was in promotion, not really in investigation.
     
  10. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

  11. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    The first comment on the paper's website seems to have been written by someone who thinks "Stargate Atlantis" is a documentary, rather than fiction.
     
  12. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

  13. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Why We Fight

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110114091737AA17Qz0
     
  14. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

  15. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    The age of credulity
    "This strange credulity is growing. Many reporters remember when there were a few guys with fax machines who sent us badly typed letters analysing why the Kennedy assassination was a hoax. Now it has spread to everything. We are besieged with claims that H1N1 vaccine will kill you, that Obama was born in Kenya and is secretly a Muslim (to the point where he actually had to produce his birth certificate, for heaven's sake), and that aircraft contrails are actually "chemtrails" - mind control drugs sprayed on us by the government."
    http://www.ottawacitizen.com/technology/space-shuttle/credulity/5062402/story.html

    Timothy Taylor can’t resist society’s ‘rabbit holes’
    "Timothy Taylor was recently walking around downtown Vancouver when he came across a gathering of “Architects for 9/11 Truth.” The idea, he says, is that 35,000 architects have signed a petition alleging that the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks were an inside job, and the group was spreading their findings with the general public.

    “I cannot stay away from stuff like that,” Taylor says with a sly smile, “so I walked up to the table and started talking to them."

    http://www.ottawacitizen.com/techno...esist+society+rabbit+holes/4574656/story.html
     
  16. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    NASA Admits Ionospheric Chemtrails Created Sunday, Plans More Tomorrow

    Two sounding rockets launched Sunday to deploy chemtrails in the ionosphere:
    http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sunearth/news/rockets-atmosphere.html

    Two more will go up Tuesday, release of lithium:
    http://www.nasa.gov/centers/wallops/news/pfaffLA.html

    Possibly as a result of mass panic due to the previus experiments of 2003, when trimethyl aluminum clouds at 56 miles above the earth resulted
    in a release of aluminum oxide:
    http://www.universetoday.com/8669/nasa-creates-clouds-for-experiment/

    The current experiment utilizes a rocket 14 inches diameter and six feet long, which could carry at most a payload of approximately 6 cubic feet in volume.

    In unrelated news, after releasing thousands of tons of aluminum oxide containing ash into the sky, the eruption of Mount Soputan in Indonesia has stopped:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  17. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    ABC 15 in Arizona has hosted a written chemtrails debate featuring former state senator Karen Johnson.
    Johnson repeats the whole enchilada from Michael Murphy including all the falsehoods (someone needs to let her know what we found).
    A U of AZ professor describes basc contrail science.
    The comments were mostly positive, chemmies aren't bragging about this one.......expect the typical angry backlash.
    http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/local_news/hear_me_out/hear-me-out:-july-31
     
  18. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Dutchsinse gets debunked by KCET

    http://www.kcet.org/updaily/the_bac...dormant-mojave-desert-volcano-is-dormant.html
     
  19. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    Readign the comments there are some questions there that you'd expect people to be able to answer themselves - unfortunately i'm at work ATM & don't have access to join the forum (it's via FB...& that is blocked), but if anyone wants to make a point on my behalf I'd be happy for them to use this info.

    apart from the usual attempts at character assination of the professor, someone has asked what a/c they had that could reach that high & linked to a list of WW1 military a/c.

    I don't know what type of a/c created the reported contrails from 1917 - but some of the a/c of that era also had sevice ceilings of almost 20,000 feet - eg the Albatross DIII 18,000, Fokker Dr 1 (Triplane) 20,000, Sopwith Triplane 20,500.

    Most fighters by the end of the war had service ceilings in the order of 20,000 feet, and the big German bombers (Gotha, Fredrischaven) were up at 21,000+ feet - service ceiling is defined as the altitude at which the maximum rate of climb is only 100 ft per minute.

    Take out the machineguns & ammo & they'll go a lot higher!

    The world altitude record in 1920 was 33,000 or so feet, made with a LUSAC 11 - a 1918 vintage US 2 seat a/c modified with a turbocharger & oxygen.

    See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_altitude_record
     
  20. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    There's a detailed discussion here. The key point being that you do occasionally get contrails at 20,000 feet.

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb3101/is_2_54/ai_n29351723/?tag=content;col1

    And see:

    http://contrailscience.com/pre-wwii-contrails/
     
  21. Marcel

    Marcel Guest

  22. tryblinking

    tryblinking Member

    oops

    I know it's naughty, but I signed it.

    Before you start telling me I'm not helping, just think about what signing a petition to outlaw a fiction actually means. Nothing. The whole of the Bible Belt could sign it and it would still mean nothing.

    I also added a comment:
    I wonder if they understand what ironically means...
     
  23. Ross Marsden

    Ross Marsden Senior Member

    Probably not. I have found that irony is totally lost on the type of intellect that falls for the chemtrails idea.
    I have a vague idea that the inability to recognise irony is a symptom of a certain mild mental illness. (I don't know which one.)
     
  24. tryblinking

    tryblinking Member

    This striking case of pareidolia is from Grand Falls, Canada, a few days ago.

    Clearly it's not a 'chemtrail', but then we say that, and nearly every visual atmospheric phenomena is being misunderstood and linked to the hoax these days.
    I'm Surprised it hasn't already been re-posted by Tankerenemy...
     
  25. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Youtube video calling for the Serbian military to shoot down planes, not to wait for orders from their command?
    I can read the subtitles, but cannot confirm their accuracy.
    Can anyone translate to be sure?
    This fellow appears to lead what sounds like the 'Green' party of Novi Sad, Serbia's second largest city with a population of 250,000.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WwjyY3F1a4&feature=player_embedded
     
  26. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    I'm not sure if this is news or not, but apparently a friend of Dutchsince was recently shot and badly wounded in his bed - http://ascendingstarseed.wordpress....t-5x-with-ak-47-dutch-now-in-secure-location/

    And of course it is beign seen as a "warning" because the person was shot in the limbs...

    Local news has a story on it which basically repeats the facts of the crime - http://www.kmov.com/news/local/One-...r-police-pursuit-ends-in-wreck-127654518.html

    I'm sur we'll be hearign more about this - I'm surprised it hasn't been more widely mentioned by the CT fraternity....
     
  27. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Feel free to start new threads on any news stories, especially if they are likely to generate follow-up discussions.
     
  28. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Anthony Hilder has unfortunately put his support behind the statements in the video above. He tells his followers that
    "They are poisoning you"
    "You will die, if you continue to go on that course."
    "Nikola Aleksic has the answer, if you'll listen, if you'll but see"
    "He's doing that which needs to be done"
    "He's speaking up for you because some of you just won't speak up."
    "Death Dumps which contain nanoparticles of akluminum oxide, strontium, barium, sulfur hexaflouride, manganese, arsenic. They intend to kill you."
    "The air above is not safe to breathe, the water is not safe to drink, the food is not safe to eat"
    "We have to speak out, we have to touch, and we have to reach out"
    "Nikola Aleksic is giving you guidance, I pray that you take it."
    "The air now that you breathe over your country is often worse than what they breathed in the camps at Auschwitz"
    "I hope that you can get the translation."
    http://aircrap.org/nato-new-nazism-serbia-chemtrails-nikola-aleksic/332128/
     
  29. tryblinking

    tryblinking Member

    ridiculous

    Forget the imagined atrocity of the 'chemtrail' hoax. Lets focus on the real atrocity: the design of Anthony Hilder's website.
    It's a classic; red, white and blue text, all bold, flashing banners, all set against dark repeated popular 'illuminati' imagery.

    But seriously, this is ridiculous. We would all agree that squeezing money out of people stupid enough to fall deep enough into this hoax to part with it is basically pathetic. Anthony Hilder doesn't seem satisfied with being pathetic, and is instead encouraging and pushing those people he now has power over to commit violence, convincing them of righteous absolution. He seems to be actively digging down to truly despicable.
     
  30. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    This youtube video features a talk by Ken Caldeira and two others about geoengineering proposals. At the end, during Q & A, some cemtrail believers begin asking questions just after the 1 hour 5 minute mark, and continue after the session ends. You can see that Caldeira and the others expect and recognize that conspiracy theorists are there, but don't respond very well. I think that they have gone through it before, don't understand what is happening and don't feel it is productive or that they will be able to make a difference. As a result, their response isn't productive, they get frustrated, and end it by walking away.

    On the chemtrails believer side, the most interesting and sad part is at 1 hour 19 minutes, where chemtrail believers demonstrate complete ignorance of
    lapse rate, contrail historical photos, spatial variation of humidity, and contrail persistence. They claim that WITWATS is "peer reviewed", claim that magnesium is in chemtrails, claim that Rosalind Peterson was hired by the government to do soil analysis, claim that geoengineering has been going on for 18 years, claim that contails last for only a minute, and that Weather Modification, Inc. and Evergreen Aviation are involved.

    At the end, one chemmie says that even if it's not spraying, water vapor contrails are geoengineering......

    It is quite obvious that these people haven't a clue how many things they have been told that are completely wrong.

    What this shows is that a great opportunity exists to educate Caldeira and ohers in what is being claimed, the common misinformation and how to easily counter it, and that whenever they get confronted by chemmies, they should verbally plug contrailscience.com verbally so that it is part of he video record.
     
  31. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Which video? Did you forget to link it?

    Ken Caldeira (not Caldiera - I corrected your post for Google) did actually tell me he directs people interested in chemtrails to contrailscience.com, however he tends not to engage the "true believers", as it's not been very productive.
     
  32. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Woops, got in a rush on the road.
    Here is the link:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6DGGfvowGc

    It's good that he recommends your site. It would be great if he could develop a better response and get acquainted with what their claims are and their weak points, but I agree he probably gets frustrated. He better get used to this, they aren't going away soon, and he and fellow scientists have actually been 'targeted'.
     
  33. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The thing is, these are the old-school classic chemtrailers, who claim that "normal" contrails are short. That really should be the point of debate there. Plenty of people remember the long contrails. The evidence for them is quite conclusive. That should really be the point that is focussed on.

    And maybe the samples.

    The second guy, Dan Whaley, did a bit better job. I think though that since they did not arrive at the talk expecting to have to debate chemtrails, then they really were not into it.
     
  34. firepilot

    firepilot New Member

    Actually the old old chemtrailers claimed it was about low level trails
     
  35. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Not news, but the explanations given in english near the bottom of this message board thread is a very interesting compilation that covers most chemtrails bunk. I'm not sure if I know the writer, but he is an interesting fellow who has been around contrailscience.com.
    http://www.thebiggestsecret.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2554
     
  36. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    That's a rather impressive list there from Greg. Unfortunately it also illustrates one of the problems with debunking. It's such a huge dump of information that nobody is going to read through it all.

    Debunking doesn't just have to be correct and comprehensive. It also has to be accessible.
     
  37. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Alfred Webre and Leuren Moret go off the deep end

    In this web page, Webre admits he wrote Kucinich's Bill that banned "chemtrails". Kucinich pulled the Bill, which he had evidently not even read, and now Webre and Moret are blaming him for just about every disaster over the past decade, plus "the long term depopulation of the human race":
    [​IMG]

    They really demonize Dr. Paul A. Bernhardt, too.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  38. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Off the deep end? Maybe you've not seen the time travel stuff where DARPA travel into the future to get a copy of Webre's book to predict the election.

    http://www.examiner.com/exopolitics-in-seattle/time-travel-and-political-control#ixzz1Upymdrnl

     
  39. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    There is a book out there someone could write about the many figures who start off as ordinary or even extraordinary people, but who take wrong turns in their lives and descend into a world that is so deeply flawed. David Icke, Leonard Horowitz, Webre are a few. Evidently respected or high achieving individuals but who turn out to be raving nutters, I have no earthly idea what causes this, yet there is bound to be something behind it.
     
  40. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member