1. GregMc

    GregMc Senior Member

    I thought with comments about finance and a money trail and product sales spread out over a few topic headings it might be worthwhile to unify them under one easily identifiable heading:



    Many chemtrail believers who avidly buy conspiracy DVDs and stickers, T-shirts and donate to conspiracy websites etc often accuse debunkers of being paid by some mysterious govt agency .
    They suggest to "follow the money" to get to the bottom of the conspiracy.
    What they don't seem to consider is to think about who would benefit financially from flogging a conspiracy hoax to the public.
    It would take a vast and unwieldy bureaucracy to orchestrate thousands of pilots, aircraft designers and builders, air traffic controllers, airport staff, aviation engineers, re-fuellers and fuel suppliers. maintenance personnel etc to carry out a vast conspiracy, all aware that they would be poisoning themselves and their own families and friends, and yet NO credible whistle blowers of these alleged conspiracies have ever come forwards.
    Remember we are not just talking about unmarked white planes here. Youtube chemtrail adherents such as Peekay22 and LasVegasskywatch have positively identified commercial passenger planes such as QF64 and numerous others as being involved in what they claim as "chemtrail spraying".

    What DOESN'T take a vast secretive bureaucracy to organise is a HOAX so that unethical and cynical individuals can benefit from paranoia, ignorance of aviation and gullibility in the general public and make money out of them through deliberately spreading fear.
    Convince enough members of the public that water condensation in the sky is a threat, then SELL them cures for ....water.

    This is exactly the path taken by previously unemployed and opportunistic journalists, drop outs, radio shock jocks and even disgraced former doctors who's malpractice had killed patients.

    It appears these sorts of people have perpetuated the Chemtrail hoax in order to benefit from donations, radio appearances, speaking engagements and advertising placements, and to directly sell products. Who could be unaware of the principle of selling snake oil, or the philosophy of P.T. Barnum : "there's a sucker born every minute"

    With that in mind, here begins an accumulation of information about the real "chemtrail money trail":

    ""Thank you for shopping in Alex Jones' infowars.com store. By purchasing from us you are helping to support our efforts in the battle against the 'New World Order"
    In light of falling revenues to fund the infowar and get the truth out, we are asking you to make a donation. Please donate — a few dollars or more if you can afford to do so. Alex does not rely on corporate ad revenue like the corporate media, essentially a greedy whore that takes billions of dollars from transnational corporations to fund its non-stop, 24-7 propaganda effort that will ultimately end in global slavery and unimaginable misery for billions of people – that is if we let them get away with it.
    It is up to you to help us keep the infowar alive and healthy. Please consider making a donation.

    Don’t want to use PayPal or a credit card? You can send a personal check instead: Please make the check payable to...




    Your contributions to the Carnicom Institute will make a difference. Your donations will be used to support environmental, health, and scientific research on behalf of the public welfare. (and support Clifford's fat wallet)
    The Carnicom Institute accepts donations in the form of:

    • Money Orders
    • Checks
    • Credit Cards - please call 505.466.2784 for credit card donations.
    • Pay Pal donations sent to donate@carnicominstitute.org

    We thank you for your generous support. The Carnicom Institute is working towards 501 c3 status. (woo hoo, free money and tax free status! Expect the same govt you claim is trying to kill you to give you tax exempt status so you can attack it further! You know that makes sense.)

    Credit Cards
    Credit Cards accepted are:
    • Master Card
    • Visa
    • American Express
    • Discover

    http://www.carnicominstitut...









    Help Stop Chemtrails

    Make a donation to willthomas.netHelp us maintain the web site/ bandwidth and keep the public informed. http://www.willthomas.net/Chemtrails/http://www.willthomas.net/Chemtrails/
    ChemtrailsMystery LinesIn The SkyOn CD-ROM Available Here
    Buy The BookChemtrails Confirmed2004 - Book excerptsBy William Thomas

    Buy This Film Here (The big question is if you buy in the next 20minutes will you get a bonus set of steak knives?)


    http://www.nutrimedical.com/
    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread398534/pg1



    http://www.tankerenemy.com/ (sells books and other nonsense in a beautiful language) Has a big DONATE button on his site.

    Here's his facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/people/Rosa...anò/1478581712
    http://www.macrolibrarsi.it/libri/__...rove.php?pn=67
    Truthergirl Sonya and her Stoner Husband recomend Epson salts for "barium poisoning": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vPpDKewqMQ
    List of herbal remedies for "chemtrails"
    http://myshasta.info/tempest/chemtrails.htm
    http://www.myspace.com/durangochemtrails/blog/338993779
    Testimonial time! http://educate-yourself.org/dc/homeh...y29jan05.shtml
    http://mindbodyspirit.me/chemtrails/
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiFUgsYmHyg

    Feel free to contribute to this list
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. firepilot

    firepilot New Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2016
  3. Danny55

    Danny55 Member

    http://www.chemtrailsproject.com/

    For $49 you can get a container and instructions to sample rainwater, then send it away for "testing" to see what it contains, The results are plotted on a map of the USA to show what the chemtrail spraying produces, and its location.
    No actual documents are shown onsite, however, since I asked 2 months agao about steps to be taken to mitigate the effects of Aeolian dust, the "results" have changed to show NO Aluminium and some Strontium.
    You can also become a "sponsor" of the project on their website.
    There are also links to The Truth Denied site, run by Roxy Lopez, where you can donate for the cause, and her "Chemtrails Kill" FB page.
     
  4. GregMc

    GregMc Senior Member

    ooh, Tshirts!
    Show me the money!

    http://roswellboutique.wordans.com/t-shirt/anti-chemtrails-165838

    http://www.stopspraying.us/


    Bumper stickers:
    http://globalskywatch.com/resources/bumper-stickers/


    [TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: left"]"Need to raise funds for your chemtrail organization? Consider reselling bumper stickers. See below for details."



    [TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: left"]Stats: 3" x 10" High-Contrast, High-Stick, Durable, Vinyl Bumper Sticker
    Place your order here
    Payments are processed by PayPal through "russ@herballure.com", the administrator of the Global Skywatch website:








    Quantity
    Pack of 1... $4.50 USD Pack of 5... $14.00 USD Pack of 10... $24.00 USD Pack of 20... $42.00 USD Pack of 100... $155.00 USD


    [/TD]





    [/TD]


    "herbal LURE "
    http://www.herballure.com/
     
  5. Danny55

    Danny55 Member

  6. Danny55

    Danny55 Member

  7. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Here is the call for $24,000 to produce the propaganda film:

    http://web.archive.org/web/20100814100400/http://realityzone.com//angels.html
     
  8. firepilot

    firepilot New Member

    I think Will Thomas is the granddaddy of pimping chemtrails for money. Multiple references to him requesting money, or not delivering when given money.
     
  9. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Yes, the William Thomas you speak of said this in 2000:
    The photos which had deluged Thomas never emerged.

    He lied.


    Two instances when funds were collected for "research" include the "Chemtrail Research Fund" by David Peterson and Clifford Carnicom, "Blue Skies International", by Toni Thayer, and one by Lori Kramer of chemtrailtrackingusa. None of these ever produced anything substantive, and while Carnicom's fund promised a public accounting of the $6,000 that was said to have been collected, no such accounting was ever presented. here was some discussion:
    http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000056-2.html
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. PCWilliams

    PCWilliams Active Member

    Damn Jay, you've been at this a long time! Major kudos. Good reading.
     
  11. firepilot

    firepilot New Member

    Not to mention also his promising lab reports, that he needed to be reimbursed for before releasing..that never existed in the first place
     
  12. Steve

    Steve Active Member

    Can any of these charlatans be prosecuted for fraud in bilking their followers and promoting fear among the unknowing public?
     
  13. GregMc

    GregMc Senior Member

    "Can any of these charlatans be prosecuted for fraud in bilking their followers and promoting fear among the unknowing public?"

    I wonder too. In a way it's a bit like advertising perfume or any other vanity product. Make people scared of something like wrinkles or being smelly.. things folks have just accepted as inevitable for millenia but now we give scary sounding names for and suddenly everyone needs to buy a cure or they'll be a social outcast.
    But in the case of Chemtrails it's outright misrepresentation and deception, saying something like contrails are something that they are not, then making money from the misrepresentation and resultant fear.
    It would be interesting to speak to a lawyer.... (and come away with wallet intact.)


    It's also interesting that there seems to be few former believers that are as vocal after realising it is a scam as they were before. Steve and Janet being notable.
    So perhaps theres an element of embarrassment when folks figure it out and they tend not to publicly broadcast "I was scared of water for .... years, and I'm going to sue those responsible!"
    For those of us who tend to contact believers and send them info , they tend to just say thanks and go hide in a corner feeling a bit silly afterwards.
    It takes some gumption to admit being wrong and then set about correcting the possibility of it happening to others.
     
  14. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Unfortunately with the law at the moment you can pretty much say anything, and sell anything, so long as you don't actually directly claim the thing you are selling will cure anything.

    Charlatans will always be with us to some degree. (side note: the book "Charlatan" is about a quack who implanted goat testicles into people, and made lots of money doing it. )

    Since MJM is not selling a cure, there's really nothing you can do about it from a legal point of view. It's basically freedom of speech. Even lies can be protected speech if they can be characterized as opinions or beliefs, even when they are demonstrably wrong. It's not a crime to be wrong.
     
  15. Steve

    Steve Active Member

    It's just so frustrating to me that as a building manager of apartment buildings I can be personally sued by a handicap person for the slightest infraction in building code or discrimination because I advertise a unit is walking distance from a shopping area instead of just saying it's nearby to shopping. But MJM can pronounce to the world in a profit making film that Monsanto or Bill Gates is behind a global spraying eugenics agenda and get away Scott free without any litigation. His claims affect the lives of thousands of people causing fear and anger directed at their own government and furthering a hatred directed at Government organizations and innocent corporations. Why is it just up to us a small group of people just exposing these scams on the Internet.? Where is the justice in this from the people who's job it is to look out for it when it really happens on such a large scale?
     
  16. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    You can't sue MJM, because there's no law against what he is doing.

    I think it's because there are other things the legislature would be forced to confront if they went down that road. the mental torture some people go through with religion, the lies of homeopathy, and "dietary supplements". If MJM can be prosecuted for instilling fear in people by spreading falsehood, then should also catholic priests be prosecuted the same way?

    It's a game of inches.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Pogopoint99

    Pogopoint99 New Member

    I've asked myself that question... the answer has always come up as a yes. I'm not saying that such regulations could ever be passed or enforced, but there seems to be something reasonable about passing laws protecting people from products that are not proven to work. That includes homeopathy and religion.

    It seems the law is geared to protect people from harmful products rather than products that don't work as promised. But then again, aren't there laws against false advertising?
     
  18. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

  19. Pogopoint99

    Pogopoint99 New Member

    Regulations seem to be limited to "the purchase of food, drugs, devices or cosmetics". None of which affect MJM in his promotion of chemtrails.

    Here's the thing that bugs me, and it's a continuation of Steve's gripe from the post above. MJM can spew without requiring evidence, but if you call him a liar you risk slandering or libelling him.
     
  20. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Oh you can call him on it, so long as you stick to the facts.

    The problem of libel might arise if you make the claim he is deliberately misleading people in order to make money. And even then, you can certainly express your opinion of him. (that link has some rather amusing examples, like "chicken butt")

    Anything you say that is true, or substantially true, is generally protected speech.
     
  21. Pogopoint99

    Pogopoint99 New Member

    Right. So when he says "The people who are behind this are looking at control and depopulation is part of that agenda. We know that." http://aircrap.org/michael-j-murphy-on-death-dumps-and-affect-on-children/331178/

    How is he allowed to get away with that. It sounds to me like he is making a statement of fact, not merely expressing and opinion. BTW thanks for the link, good read.
     
  22. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    There may be some protection against libel for certain classes of people who label themselves "activists", they may approach the status of "public persons". Then there was the Kevorkian libel case which went to the supreme court:

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/838760/Top-court-decides-Kevorkian-cant-revive-libel-suit.html

    One wonders if chemtrail promoters could be considered "virtually libel-proof" as well.
    We have enough facts, already, but he needs to be pressed some day for a reaction about the threats and mental anguish he is causing, and whether he feels any personal responsibility about that.
     
  23. Spongebob

    Spongebob Active Member

    Better to thoroughly debunk everything he has ever said and everything he stands for - certainly his 'mocumentary' ? :eek:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    You are allowed to be wrong. If someone said the world was ending tomorrow, would you feel like you could sue them for emotional distress?

    Since his speech is not directly selling anything, and is does not contain claimed facts about you, then you have no real recourse under the law.

    There IS the possibility to sue someone for emotional distress, but you'd need to demonstrate that emotional distress actually occurred due to false statements, and that MJM's actions were malicious, or negligent. The US law sets a pretty high bar here, and rightly so.
     
  25. Danny55

    Danny55 Member

    Just wondering if the most powerful group in the country would be interested in him?? Yes, I am talking about the taxman :)
     
  26. firepilot

    firepilot New Member

    When I did air ambulance flights, often overnight hours, I would listen to Coast to Coast AM on the ADF radio. I remember hearing a product called Sea Silver, which was just the colloidal silver stuff. But they went a bit too far in their claims, and got the smackdown

    http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/seasilver.html

    Its legal to sell snake oil, you can just not sell snake oil and make specific medical claims. Its how shysters like Len Horowitz can peddle products that are supposedly infused with the 528 hz healing frequency of love, which is just meaningless claptrap
     
  27. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Saw this amusing device on Ebay for $99.99

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/RADIONICS-O...-REIKI-POWER-PENDANT-/120614467430#vi-content

    [​IMG]

     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  28. firepilot

    firepilot New Member

    Which is right there, now they keep from being illegal. They do not make a specific claim, just that it is "believed by some", which is true. Some people believe in this nonsense
     
  29. PCWilliams

    PCWilliams Active Member

    They call it, "Truth as an absolute defense."
     
  30. Pogopoint99

    Pogopoint99 New Member

    And what a wonderful array of "cures" there are to choose from...

    Chemtrailers often like to suggest ways for people to detoxify their bodies of all those nasty chemicals. There are those relatively inexpensive products like crystals, epoxy cones and clay supplements infused with aluminium oxide, and then there are the more expensive ion detox foot baths.

    In North America many of these ionic foot baths are being sold by holistic/alternative medicine outfits. Prices can be as high as $2000. The good news is that the Guangzhou O.U Health Electronic Technology Co. of China will sell you a remarkably similar looking product for as little as $66.32...


    footbath.



    ...as will the Guangzhou Huakai Electronic Technology Co., Ltd.



    footbath2.


    So, either these are cheap knock-offs, or somebody is making a killing.


    Oops, I guess I could have made this post in the Quakery Forum https://www.metabunk.org/threads/345-Ion-foot-bath-scam
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  31. Danny55

    Danny55 Member

  32. Danny55

    Danny55 Member

  33. PCWilliams

    PCWilliams Active Member

    They have a section where they offer free chemtrail (stock) videos (http://tinyurl.com/7nh3g2o), but it's free if you meet their "open licensing terms" (http://tinyurl.com/73pc6v8) which reads, "We do not allow our media to be used by those who distribute disinformation including … those who attempt to debunk or discredit chemtrails …"

    This is priceless :cool:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  34. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    Since it is not free if you "attempt to debunk" I guess it's no problem at all if you DO debunk?? ;)
     
  35. PCWilliams

    PCWilliams Active Member

    Or ... flip it around and upside down a bit ... they're admitting chemtrails are debunkable!!! :rolleyes:
     
  36. Danny55

    Danny55 Member

    Here are the prices for the Conciousness Above Contrails conference in August
    Webcast - $20
    First Day - $50
    Second Day - $50
    Third Day(1/2 day) - $28
    Weekend Pass - $90
    These are advance sales, discounted from the on the day price.
     
  37. firepilot

    firepilot New Member

    I wonder if that webcast is viewing only, or interactive where one could ask questions?? :)
     
  38. PCWilliams

    PCWilliams Active Member

    All this brings a quote to mind:

    "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair
     
  39. Danny55

    Danny55 Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  40. Danny55

    Danny55 Member