1. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Looks like this is a lost cause. They only collected $582.00, Forgette only donated $10.00. Marman spent almost 1/2 the money on his personal tests. Only $330 left.


  2. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Seems rather odd that they have a fund raising drive for a pro-bono lawyer, and then he goes and spend the money on his own tests - especially after they all paid far less for their own tests. He should be spending their money of filing a lawsuit.

    And testing fibers? Fibers that showed aluminum and barium? What the heck is he up to?
  3. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

  4. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Sure, but I think that he's really not on the same page as the lawsuit people. And he's kind of off doing his own thing.
  5. Billzilla

    Billzilla Active Member

    It's the way poor science is done - You only test things to get results that you want to find.
  6. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Yeah, one common bit of poor science that is done is looking for the "fingerprint" of geoengineering, which has somehow evolved to be "aluminum, barium, and strontium". So they test things like sludge for JUST THAT, and since those are common elements in sludge they find some in normal quantities, and then that's proof the there's geoengineering.


    It surprising hard to explain to people how utterly meaningless this test it. I don't think Marman gets it.
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  7. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Barium and strontium, besides being fairly expensive, have not ever been suggested for geoengineering. There is no rhyme or reason for using them or being suspicious about their use in geoengineering.Those two elements are just chemtrails folklore.
    Anyone who seriously looks into how these elements got into the chemtrails hoax needs to understand just how deep this hoax's roots go into complete rumor without a shred of evidence. It's a very good example of a rabbit hole of imagination:

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  8. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    The following non-peer reviewed research by Purdy . . . suggested a connection between military applications and aerosols containing Barium and Strontium . . . could be a source for some of the concepts . . .

    Elevated silver, barium and strontium in antlers, vegetation and soils sourced from CWD cluster areas: Do Ag/Ba/Sr piezoelectric crystals represent the transmissible pathogenic agent in TSEs?
    The elevations of Ag, Ba and Sr were thought to originate from both natural geochemical and artificial pollutant sources – stemming from the common practise of aerial spraying with ‘cloud seeding’ Ag or Ba crystal nuclei for rain making in these drought prone areas of North America, the atmospheric spraying with Ba based aerosols for enhancing/refracting radar and radio signal communications as well as the spreading of waste Ba drilling mud from the local oil/gas well industry across pastureland.

    Use of Ba ions in aerosol applications employed by the military and geophysical researchers
    It should also be noted that aerosols containing the Ba ion – such as the ferroelectric Ba stearate or Ba strontium titanate compounds [60,61] – are dis- charged along jet flight paths/low flight practise areas and around munitions production/storage/ guided missile testing facilities as a means of en- hancing/refracting ducting radio/radar signalling communications for maintaining a reliable measure of security and rapid communication around the curvatures of the earth. Ba ions have also been widely discharged into the atmosphere since the mid 1970s as a means of conducting geophysical explorations of the ionosphere [62].
    Thus any foodchain that is sited around these top security military locations, flight paths or be- neath these areas of ionospheric exploration, could find itself subjected to the toxic ‘fall out’ from this mode of atmospheric metal pollution.

    [60] Paine TO. NASA Barium ion cloud; Patent US 3813875, Barium release system to create ion clouds in upper atmosphere. Application Number; US 1972000248761. Pat- ent issue date; June 4th 1974.
    [61] Dorsch J. Electronic News; January 11 1999.
    [62] Heppner JP, Miller MB, Pongratz MB, Smith GM, Smith LL, Mende SB, et al. The cameo barium releases: e-parallel fields over the polar cap. J Geophys Res 1981;86:3519
    [chapter 3].
    [63] Shacklette A. In: Oehme FW, editor. Toxicity of heavy
    metals in the environment Part 1. New York: Marcel
    Dekker, Inc.; 1978. p. 56–9.
    [64] Mayland HF, Florence AR, Rosenau RC, Lazar VA, Turner
    HA. Soil ingestion by cattle on semi-arid range as reflected by titanium analysis of feces. J Range Manage 1975;28(6):448–52.
    [65] Brown D, Hafiz F, Glassmith L, Wong BS, Jones I, Clive C, et al. Consequences of manganese replacement of copper for prion protein function and protease resistance. EMBO J 2000;19(6):1180–6.
    [66] Coveney PV, Davey R, Griffin JLW, He Y, Hamlin D, Stackhouse S, et al. J Am Chem Soc 2000;122:11557–8.
  9. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    Mark Purdey was a British organic farmer and anti-BSE campaigner who believed that the disease was due to environmental factors rather than being an infectious disease. As his wiki page points out, he was wrong. But he was also quite dogged and quite well self-educated, and some of his papers were published in peer-reviewed journals.

    But that doesn't stop him being wrong.

    Let's look at the another paper wher he made these claims in some detail:

    There are a number of places the paper makes claims for Barium being sprayed -

    - lines 44-46

    - line 176-177

    - lines 285-288

    - lines 198-309

    And in Table 1 and Table 2 just after that last extract some barium levels are given, with 1 source in each table being given as "Aeroplane fuel additive".

    lines 500-501

    The claim is that aerial spraying it carried out is "backed up" by 2 references which appear in the one you quoted too:

    The first of these is is a typical chemmie claim - a patent for releasing barium from ROCKETS somehow means that it is released from aircraft - it is utterly irrelevant both to chemtrails in general, and also to the specific claims in this paper.

    The 2nd reference is untraceable on the 'net - it only occurs in a couple of papers by this guy, including Elevated silver, barium & strontium levels in antlers, vegetation, etc.

    Dorsch J. with any connection to radar or radio technology doesn't seem to exist on the 'net apart from this reference. And the Archives for EDN (which merged with Electronic News) show no issue for January 11 1999. There appears to be no Electronic News archive online.

    I would quite like to see the electronic News article he used as a reference, but basically his assertion that spraying is done looks very much like assertion is not substantiated.
  10. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Jeff Dorsch wrote many articles for Electronic News around 1999.
    Here is an abstract of the news article Purdy seems to be citing:

    It speaks of a thin film application of the dieelectric material barium strontium titanate being used for DRAM chips.

    Another article:

    A whole symposium on this material:

    It is also used in Varactors, variable capacitance diodes:

    North Carolina State was involved in this thin film research:

    What has happened here is that A.C. Griffith has applied the "POWER WORD SEARCH", using the key words barium and radio frequency, and simply decided that barium strontium titanate was being sprayed. Well, maybe it was, but it was being sprayed on chips and capacitors in thin films, not wholesale across the world for some obscure "ducting" of radar.

    George, if you want to track this down, contact A.C. Griffith and ask him for evidence that any barium strontium titanate was ever sprayed. I'd like to see what he has to say, he claims to have "gotten inside the project", ask him.

    Go to the source. Just like I did when I tracked down the whole chemtrails hoax down to the instant of it's inception with Larry Wayne Harris and Richard Finke.

    What you will find is one rumor building on another, one nutcase implying this, quoting another, added to by yet another, twisted and exagerrated by another, until you have an entire meme built up ready to be accepted by gullible folks like yourself.

    Go ahead, George.......ride the horse.......you'll find at the end you are riding a jackass.....
  11. Belfrey

    Belfrey Senior Member

    I'm fortunate enough to have academic library access, and fulltexts of Electronic News are available from 1999. However, there are 89 articles in that Jan. 11 issue (mostly quite short, less than a page), many of them written by Jeff Dorsch. The citation is incomplete as given. Scanning through, I don't see any that talk about stratospheric spraying (it seems unlikely, judging from the titles this is clearly an electronics industry trade magazine), but after work I'll try to find any with reference to barium that might have been misinterpreted.
  12. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    I made absolutely no claim of accuracy of the research . . . my only point was the above cited research paper may be the source that had people connecting Barium and Strontium to the chemtrail conspiracy . . . You misinterpret my purpose. . .
  13. Belfrey

    Belfrey Senior Member

    Okay, there is a single article (titled "BST Contract") in that issue of Electronic News that mentions barium.

    Dorsch, Jeff. 1999. BST Contract. Electronic News. 45.2252 (Jan. 11, 1999) p22.

    The article in its entirety (142 words, really just a paragraph after the abstract that Jay linked to before):
    So, Jay was exactly right.
  14. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    cool - thanks for all that info about Jeff Dorsch!
  15. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Nice, it seems like the words "liquid delivery and vaporization techniques", "chemical vapor", "DARPA", and "radar" must have leapt off the page and made it look like it was actually relevant.
  16. tryblinking

    tryblinking Member

    Not to mention tied in a 'neat' bow by the final inclusion of that conspiracist's Deus ex machina, Raytheon.
  17. Danny55

    Danny55 Member

    What luck. New admins on the Lawsuit page include,
    Michael J Murphy
    Edward Griffin
    John Whyte ( chemtrails project and coordinator of Chemtrails above Conciousness conference).
    As an added bonus, Clifford Carnicom is now an admin as well.
  18. Danny55

    Danny55 Member

    From the Lawsuit page
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  19. PCWilliams

    PCWilliams Active Member

    I don't see how pushing the global warming/cooling aspect addresses their issue regarding the chemical composition of contrails.

    I'm not even sure they would want to address the global warming/cooling aspects of contrails. I believe there is a reason the whole global warming/cooling theory has never made it to a court of law, and there are A LOT of global warmists with tens of millions of dollars - even billions of dollars - riding on the theory remaining unproven either way.
  20. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    That's just a bunch of rah-rah boasting to keep the fish on the line. You've seen how these people work, jumping to take the word of anonymous emails as being something real. If they thought they had something bigger than blood tests they would have been crowing about it long ago, and have given up on blood tests and rain water.

  21. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I think there's a huge assumption in the chemtrail community that there's a vast body of irrefutable evidence that supports their case.

    This hinders debunking, as no matter how much you chip away, they always think there's loads left. If you spend time explaining something, and you eventually convince them of something (like how planes are actually visible at 30,000 feet) they just go "it doesn't matter" as they still "know" the planes are spraying.

    So I strongly suspect that all their other evidence is simply the same old stuff - like the patents, and the magic word Google searches, the ridiculous air quality tests, and the photos of barrels, all just being recycled.
  22. tryblinking

    tryblinking Member

    ok, now I'm really looking forward to this if it ever sees trial, but obviously not because I think they secretly have any compelling evidence. Like most of you, I've seen the gamut of surreal theories from this hoax, so I'm really interested to see the kinds of things they will try to use in court as if they were evidence.
    I could even be surprised, as they continue to tunnel illogically miles down, mining pure seams of uncontaminated bullshit, the likes of which I happily lack the instability to imagine.
  23. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    Both Al & Robert have banned me twice before from those 2 chemtrail geoengineering lawsuit groups
    right after I had submitted my hair toxin test results to the both of them via fb inbox message
    this is a hoax in my opinion as so they both can steal personal ID information
    including all IPS to hack into your computers
    this is why the 3rd chemtrail geoengineering group was created
    as you go into their website then they see all inside of your pc
    many people who have tried to help them out were banned out of the groups and called trolls and shills
    they have no real proof or evidence enough to hold up in a court of law
    and they know it , it is all about mind control and ego's
    they have created countless bogus fb accts and use them to dupe us all into thinking that these people have joined the groups
    also after they hack into your fb acct they add your friends to the groups
    this all needs to be stopped before it gets any worse
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  24. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    I'd like to confirm if what you say is true. We need to find documented and confirmable evidence to do that, and it should be clear enough by now that I, and probably most regular posters here, will not take the word of an 'unregistered' person for very much.

    If you truly believe what you are saying, show us your real FB ID, be a real person.
    If you know of a bogus FB account set up by Al or Robert, state which account is bogus and show some evidence.
    If you know someone who was added to their group without their permission, name the name(s).

    If you won't do any of those things, you are making accusations no different than those of Al or Robert (lacking evidence).

    The ball is in your court, you are in play, the choice is yours, but don't expect anyone to assume that your claims are true, that is how this whole chemtrails hoax got started and is maintained. I personally won't be a part of anything that has no substance, so if you have something, bring it....
  25. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    I would love to show you all the proof but every time I have tried my computer and fb act gets hacked into by Robert , that and again like I had said both him and Al have my hair toxin test results , I will now have to get my own personal lawyer involived and file a claim against them both , Al and Robert non stop reapeadty ask for water, blood and hair test results , then when submitted to them to banned me out

    what you people need to know is that there is really no case here I have spoken to the attorny Joe Marman personally on the phone
    what he told me is that they even have no real case that he was only trying to be helpful but only due to being a lawyer with a very small one man firm , he stated he did not even have a securtary , nor a fb acct , and did not know how to use fb and was not even a member on these 2 chemtrail lawsuit groups
    he also stated to me that he was not asking for money in that it was Al and Robert only asking , Joe found out about this whole entire chemtrail geo engineering lawsuit group through a post on farm wars . com
    Joe stated to me there is only but maybe 3-4 people only if that many who have turned in any water, blood and hair toxin test results his words and that only these people he will be trying to represent if it ever does go to trial in which he stated he doubted it would even make it because of lack of solid proof

    weather these are chemtrail or contrails all 3 groups are just pure scams you all are being duped
    where are all the test results at that both Al , Robert and Daun Abboutt have collected ? why are they not showing you anyone whom has submitted theirs
    why is it all about money money money for Joe Marman ?
    read all the posts , who is Daun Abbout ? why are they only collecting all test results in which stated were due by May 15th
    it is way past this month , where is all the evidence ? .where is the proof of original leagle lawsuit document ? anyone can sit on a pc and type words up stating were have submitted doesn't take brains to do so.
    why are people such as advocates being called trolls and schills when joining the 2 groups to try and help out by asking questions on and about the water, blood and hair toxin tests results . then getting hatred emails to shut up and quit asking questions and then being banned out the 2 groups after they are harrassed with abusive words from Al and Robert

    Do you need this proof ?

    misogynist's is what you are dealing with along with mind control people shuffling etc.. etc..
    why are people being told what they can and cannot type in them groups ? why are peoples posts being deleted ?
    why is there another private 3rd group created ? where both Al Robert only have access to fb Id names and passwords
    go do the research on all this if you can , if all the posts were not already deleted from the prior past months
    that is just it you can't because they were deleted and by who ? you guess
    more will be revealed by whislte blowers
    stay tunned !
  26. PCWilliams

    PCWilliams Active Member

    It would be a popcorn moment. I'd PAY to be in that courtroom.
  27. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Well, "unregistered", I see you didn't do even one of the things I asked you to do, and so there isn't much I can do for you.
    When you can show some real evidence, let me know. If what you say is even partially true, this lawsuit hoax will fail as I knew it would, and fall from being rotten to the core.
  28. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I think it's going to fail just from being not very well thought out.
  29. Belfrey

    Belfrey Senior Member

    Unregistered, it certainly would not surprise to us to learn that no substantial evidence has been gathered to support the lawsuit. The chemtrails idea is not based in nor supported by evidence, and many of us here (including me) have been banned from chemtrails websites simply for asking to be shown evidence. Asking for evidence is considered "trolling" at such websites.

    It's extremely unlikely that the administrators at these websites have hacked your computer, or indeed that they would be able to do so. Same goes for your FB account, unless you gave them your password. Whatever problems you are having with your computer, it's probably not due to those guys. You might want to run an antivirus scan.
  30. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    good eyes and if you watch the video "what in the world are they spraying " you will see John Whyte name in the ending credits as a financial contributor towards this video . the plot thickens
  31. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    mick how can one find you on fb to add so i can share something with you or anybody for that matter
  32. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    you still have no idea of whom you are dealing with when it comes to the new head person now in charge of them 3 chem trail law suit groups
    do you ? i shall follow all of this more. the truth always comes out in the end and this person has ego written all over his last name money property and prestige whole entire family

    what happened to very first interview with the person in charge of this group who was on truth denied with roxy lopez ?
    why is it not in google search ? or is it ?
  33. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    No it doesn't. It just means Whyte donated to a cause he believes in.
  34. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Having met him at the conference, I think I have a very good idea of who I'm dealing with.

    Quit making unfounded accusations. If you've got evidence, then put it up.
  35. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    You can always register here, and PM me.
  36. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    This major chem trail conference was just another way to make more money off the original one that was made in 2011



    here is the original full length video done in 2010

    now ask your self's why was this video done again re made again in August 16 , 2012 at a chem trail conference
    except somebody has change the title and chopped it by editing parts out
    "Why in the World are They Spraying?"



    as the plot thickens more will be revealed Mick
  37. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Unregistered, we are familiar with the history of the film. It's pretty much a new film, not a version of the old one (although it makes many of the same mistakes).
  38. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    This photo is said by Michael J. Murphy to depict the DVDs of his new movie recently shipped out.


    Not sure how many would be in these boxes, but multiply by $20US each.
    Michael J. Murphy has no other means of support other than chemtrails, he has no real job, hasn't worked for years, what incentive does he have to solve the mystery he has handed you? If he did, he would have to go get a real job like the rest of us.
    • Like Like x 1
  39. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Those boxes are from http://www.checkoutstore.com/ which just sells blank DVDs, cases, lables and duplicating equipment. That means he's doing his own duplicating and printing. The DVD case is about $0.25, a blank DVD is $0.20, printing maybe $0.05, so $0.50 total cost. Shipping is the big expense at around $2.50.

    So he makes $19.50 for each DVD he sells in person, and $17.00 for the mail orders.
  40. tryblinking

    tryblinking Member

    I never thought his margins could be so high. It really puts his strong resistance to evidence in perspective.