Can someone debunk Vigilant Citizen?

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Landru said:
Didn't happen.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flights.asp
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Are you certain of that?

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/06/09/Tampabay/TIA_now_verifies_flig.shtml

The airport used aircraft tracking equipment normally assigned to a noise abatement program to determine the identity of all aircraft entering TIA airspace on Sept. 13, and found four records for the LearJet 35.

The plane first entered the airspace from the south, possibly from the Fort Lauderdale area, sometime after 3 p.m. and landed for the first time at 3:34 p.m. It took off at 4:37 p.m., headed north. It returned to Tampa at 8:23 p.m. and took off again at 8:48 p.m., headed south.
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Melbury's Brick said:
Do you seriously think Bush was publicly announcing the next step in the plans of the "Illuminati"? Anyone making such a declaration would do so without ambiguity, not shrouding it in mystery like a bizarre game of Cluedo that only conspiracy theorists can work out. The message is never about peace or caring for the poor, it's about politicians trying to garner support by claiming that they will bring about this utopia, and that would include the removal of individuals that they can claim are a threat to those ideals.

There are more than one video featuring Green. I think that if you are using his words to support your theory, the onus is on you to provide a link.

I have seen many conspiracy theorists quoting the "25 goals" laid out allegedly by the Illuminati and/or Adam Weishaupt but I genuinely cannot find a source indicating who wrote them and where they are written. Can you help with this?
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"]Do you seriously think Bush was publicly announcing the next step in the plans of the "Illuminati"? Anyone making such a declaration would do so without ambiguity, not shrouding it in mystery like a bizarre game of Cluedo that only conspiracy theorists can work out."

He wasn't announcing the next step or plans of the Illuminati he was announcing a new world order. He's not the only one to have announced this either. there is also Kissinger, Blair, Brown, Obama and Soros. What about David Rockefellers confession?

"There are more than one video featuring Green. I think that if you are using his words to support your theory, the onus is on you to provide a link."
Here's the link to the video with George Green ..... .........


"I have seen many conspiracy theorists quoting the "25 goals" laid out allegedly by the Illuminati and/or Adam Weishaupt but I genuinely cannot find a source indicating who wrote them and where they are written. Can you help with this?[/quote]"


I first heard about them from Ted Gunnderson in a video where he mentions a book called "pawns in the game" and then he reads them out. I haven't read the book and can provide no concrete proof that they are genuine or whatever but I have seen a plaque dedicated to the Illuminati in a video by a man named Lenord Cohen (I think that's his name) he's some Canadian guy who made a video about biblical prophecy and conspiracies. He's not in the media or anything he's just a normal student form Canada. I't's 2 hours long so there would be no point in trying to watch it here. But go to YouTube and type in NWO and Biblical prophecy and you should come across the video.
 
Grieves said:
Are you certain of that?

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/06/09/Tampabay/TIA_now_verifies_flig.shtml
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Read the link. It is dealt with.


Another particular allegation is that a flight carrying Saudi nationals from Tampa, Florida, to Lexington, Kentucky, was allowed to fly while airspace was closed, with special approval by senior U.S. government officials. On September 13, Tampa police brought three young Saudis they were protecting on an off-duty security detail to the airport so they could get on a plane to Lexington. Tampa police arranged for two more private investigators to provide security on the flight. They boarded a chartered Learjet. The plane took off at 4:37 P.M., after national airspace was open, more than five hours after the Tampa airport had reopened, and after other flights had arrived at and departed from that airport. The three Saudi nationals debarked from the plane and were met by local police. Their private security guards were paid. and the police then escorted the three Saudi passengers to a hotel where they joined relatives already in Lexington. The FBI is alleged to have had no record of the flight and denied that it occurred, hence contributing to the story of a "phantom flight." This is another misunderstanding. The FBI was initially misinformed about how the Saudis got to Lexington by a local police officer in Lexington who did not have firsthand knowledge of the matter. The Bureau subsequently learned about the flight.

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The airspace reopened on Sep. 13th.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closings_and_cancellations_following_the_September_11_attacks

With the unprecedented implementation of Security Control of Air Traffic and Air Navigation Aids (SCATANA) plan, all civilian airplane traffic in the United States and Canada was grounded until September 13, 2001.
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The relatives of Bin Laden were questioned by FBI.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flights.asp


These flights were screened by law enforcement officials, primarily the FBI. For example, one flight, the so-called Bin Ladin flight, departed the United States on September 20 with 26 passengers, most of them relatives of Usama Bin Ladin. Screening of this flight was directed by an FBI agent in the Baltimore Field Office who was also a pilot ... The Bin Ladin flight and other flights we examined were screened in accordance with policies set by FBI headquarters and coordinated through working-level interagency processes. Although most of the passengers were not interviewed, 22 of the 26 people on the Bin Ladin flight were interviewed by the FBI. Many were asked detailed questions. None of the passengers stated that they had any recent contact with Usama Bin Ladin or knew anything about terrorist activity.
Content from External Source
 
Grieves said:
I really fail to understand the refusal to perceive the rather obvious effort to establish a new form of global military and economic control. It's readily apparent, whether you believe it has anything to do with secret societies/satanists/reptilians or not....

"I think it's pretty hard to deny at this point that American military action over the past decade has served multinationals far, FAR better than it has the American people, who are quite apparently struggling in spite of mind-blowing corporate profits"
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You make such broad sweeping statements that probably appease your inner angst but really have little in the way of reality or evidence to back them up. Its reads like an Occupy placard.

You want to wrap power in the cloak of some Global Conspiracy when in fact, its not "new" - its the same old power politics of old- Rich exploiting poor, power and corruption...same as it ever was. Yet somehow you believe now it is somehow different - there is some new formula that will allow...???someone?? to rise up and seize "Global military and economic control". ...and that seems to ignore the depth of history and reality of humans that says that will never happen because other Rich and Powerful people will disagree with not being in control. The new part is the "globalization"- the ability to interact and effect changes with almost anyone instantly. The merits and/or ramifications of this new phenomenon remains to be seen- but I believe it is just as- if not more- powerful for the poor man as it is the rich man.

Global Military Control?? Who is this mysterious cabal trying to establish Global Military Control?? Are they working with the Chinese? The Russians? Must be the US you are talking about...with its closing of 2 wars and drastic defense cuts, its over-stretched solider and burgeoning veterans issues... How will the US - with the help of "halliburton" no doubt- achieve this Global Military Control? Will they occupy every country? Or just threaten them with annihilation until they submit? ...or will they simply project with their "gunboat diplomacy" as they have for centuries?

Global Economic Control?? ...this must be the evil "corporations"-and "banksters". How exactly are these evil "corporations" dictating policy in China? Is Google telling the Chinese government what to censor? Is JP Morgan telling the Chinese what to value the renminbi at? Or is Facebook buying votes in the Russian parliament? Or is simply the "oil companies" and their supposed unlimited power to dictate their political will even though they do not actually own most of the oil and merely provide the service of extraction (80% of global oil reserves are in State control)? Are Ecuador, Venezuela or Iran quaking at the thought of these "multinationals" taking control of their economy or country?

So, which "multinationals" truly benefited from the last 2 wars- can your provide some actual numbers to quantify your assertion. Allow me to help. Halliburton did score well- receiving approximately $40 billion over the last decade. The next 2 largest recipients were Kuwaiti companies. A total of $138 billion was exchanged in private contracts in Iraq over 10yrs- thats not profit- thats revenue. A hell of a lot of money but not enough to go to war for. By contrast Apple makes about $40 billion in profit on $200 billion in revenue PER YEAR.

http://www.ibtimes.com/winner-most-iraq-war-contracts-kbr-395-billion-decade-1135905

The vast majority of your "mind-blowing profits" have nothing to do with the Iraq war or military action at all.


As for oil- the mantra of Iraq being a "war for oil" was always misguided at best...perhaps it was a war for Chinese oil as they seem to be the biggest beneficiaries:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/03/w...its-of-iraq-oil-boom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


Grieves said:
Robin Cook, British Foreign Secretary before resigning over the Iraq war, wrote a piece to the guardian stating AlQueda, or 'the base', should translate to "the database", and was the file name for the CIA list of known Mujahadeen fighters they were supporting. ...None the less, denying any connection between the CIA and AlQueda is calling a man to whom Britain's top intelligence branch reported, and who had the integrity to resign his position over a war he believed was unjust and unlawful, a liar.
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Well, he Was a politician so, he could very well be lying or misinterpreting the facts. You seem to put so much stock in the quote of this one politician- Lets look at what he actually said:


Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians.
Content from External Source
It seems he simply lumps Bin Laden in the mujaheddin and then extrapolates that since the Mujahedin received assistance from the CIA via the ISI that "he was armed by the CIA"- Its Bunk that gets repeated as "fact" over and over. Simply saying that because the CIA funded the mujahedin in Afghanistan and that Bin Laden was in Afghanistan and tangentially part of the Mujahedin - therefore he was "armed by the CIA". The reality on the ground was that Bin Laden was an outsider and on the periphery of the Mujahedin for much of the 80s. The FACT is there is no direct evidence of CIA $$ going to Arab fighters in Afghanistan or any direct evidence of any direct CIA-Bin Laden connection. Nor does Mr. Cook offer any.

http://www.global-politics.co.uk/issue6/Stahl/

As for Cook's translation?? He is the only one who think AL Qaeda- "literally" means "database" - It seem silly to suggest a very old Arabic word actually is a 20th century construct. Here is another view of the meaning of the word from the very same Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2002/aug/24/alqaida.sciencefictionfantasyandhorror

Rohan Gunaratna, research fellow at the centre for the study of terrorism and political violence at the University of St Andrews, takes a different view. In an important recent book on al-Qaida, he argues that the name came from political theory, citing the concept of al-Qaida al-Sulbah (the solid base) formulated in an essay by Abdullah Azzam, Bin Laden's intellectual mentor. The solid base provided a platform, Gunaratna writes, for the "sole purpose of creating societies founded on the strictest Islamic principles
Content from External Source
 
JRBids said:
I have to say, CTers are really similar to the Luddites. For example: If I could have a chip in my finger so that when I went to the doctor all he had to do was scan my finger and he's know what medicine I was taking and all my insurance information, I'd think that was an improvement over the current system. When we take my MIL to the doctor we have to have a list with us every time, with the dosages, etc. IT's easier to bring the whole darn bag of meds since they change so often.
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Well, if you would like to be micro-chipped go ahead. But I'm would rather die than receive one of those things in my body.
 
lemonlover said:
And erm this .......... ? What do you think?
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That's a great example of horrible advertising, but that's about all.

According to some reports, in 2006 80 hospitals had agreed to own a VeriChip scanner provided by the company and 232 doctors had agreed to inject the devices into patients who requested them.[7] However, the VeriChip Corporation/Applied Digital Solutions was sued by its shareholders for making "materially false and misleading statements" regarding hospital acceptance figures. According to Glancy & Binkow, the law firm that filed the class action suit:
"...on May 9, 2002, defendants [the then Applied Digital Corporation] claimed that nearly every major hospital in the West Palm Beach, Florida area would be equipped with VeriChip scanners, an indispensable component of the Company's VeriChip technology. However, one day later on May 10, 2002, the truth was disclosed that no hospital had accepted a scanner, an essential device for retrieving the VeriChip's information. Following the May 10, 2002, disclosure, the price of Applied Digital stock again fell sharply, dropping nearly 30% in a single day."[8]


...

Following Wisconsin and North Dakota,[26] California issued Senate Bill 362 in 2007, which prohibits employers and others from forcing anyone to have a RFID device implanted under their skin.[26]

On April 5, 2010, the Georgia Senate passed Senate Bill 235 that prohibits forced microchip implants in humans and that would make it a misdemeanor for anyone to require them, including employers. The bill would allow voluntary microchip implants, as long as they are performed by a physician and regulated by the Georgia Composite Medical Board. If the General Assembly passes the new Senate version, Georgia would join California, North Dakota and Wisconsin in banning mandatory microchip implant.[citation needed]

On February 10, 2010 Virginia's House of Delegates also passed a bill that forbids companies from forcing their employees to be implanted with tracking devices.[27]
Content from External Source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microchip_implant_(human)
 
Pete Tar said:
That's a great example of horrible advertising, but that's about all.

According to some reports, in 2006 80 hospitals had agreed to own a VeriChip scanner provided by the company and 232 doctors had agreed to inject the devices into patients who requested them.[7] However, the VeriChip Corporation/Applied Digital Solutions was sued by its shareholders for making "materially false and misleading statements" regarding hospital acceptance figures. According to Glancy & Binkow, the law firm that filed the class action suit:
"...on May 9, 2002, defendants [the then Applied Digital Corporation] claimed that nearly every major hospital in the West Palm Beach, Florida area would be equipped with VeriChip scanners, an indispensable component of the Company's VeriChip technology. However, one day later on May 10, 2002, the truth was disclosed that no hospital had accepted a scanner, an essential device for retrieving the VeriChip's information. Following the May 10, 2002, disclosure, the price of Applied Digital stock again fell sharply, dropping nearly 30% in a single day."[8]

...

Following Wisconsin and North Dakota,[26] California issued Senate Bill 362 in 2007, which prohibits employers and others from forcing anyone to have a RFID device implanted under their skin.[26]

On April 5, 2010, the Georgia Senate passed Senate Bill 235 that prohibits forced microchip implants in humans and that would make it a misdemeanor for anyone to require them, including employers. The bill would allow voluntary microchip implants, as long as they are performed by a physician and regulated by the Georgia Composite Medical Board. If the General Assembly passes the new Senate version, Georgia would join California, North Dakota and Wisconsin in banning mandatory microchip implant.[citation needed]

On February 10, 2010 Virginia's House of Delegates also passed a bill that forbids companies from forcing their employees to be implanted with tracking devices.[27]
Content from External Source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microchip_implant_(human)
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It doesn't say they are banned completely. It just says that you wouldn't be forced to accept one. But then, why would anyone want to be micro-chipped?
 
lemonlover said:
It doesn't say they are banned completely. It just says that you wouldn't be forced to accept one. But then, why would anyone want to be micro-chipped?
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People that may want to make their medical records easily available to an unfamiliar doctor while traveling.
 
lemonlover said:
It doesn't say they are banned completely. It just says that you wouldn't be forced to accept one. But then, why would anyone want to be micro-chipped?
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Beats me, but some people do.
The hand of microchip implant hobbyist Amal Graafstra, just after an operation to insert an RFID tag. The yellow coloration comes from iodine used to disinfect the hand for surgery.
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Why would they be banned?
 
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Pete Tar said:
Beats me, but some people do.
The hand of microchip implant hobbyist Amal Graafstra, just after an operation to insert an RFID tag. The yellow coloration comes from iodine used to disinfect the hand for surgery.
Content from External Source
Why would they be banned?
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It's un human. We will be treated like sheep. Apparently the chips they want to put into us have electro-shock treatment. That picture is horrible eewwwwwwwwwww.
 
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its not "new" - its the same old power politics of old- Rich exploiting poor, power and corruption...same as it ever was.
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I don't entirely disagree, but does that somehow make it better/ok that the same old systems of feudal oppression are being employed again in this day an age by the 'civilized' world?

Yet somehow you believe now it is somehow different -
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Of course it's different. Technology is different, societies are different, wealth itself is entirely different. History doesn't limit the present.
there is some new formula that will allow...???someone?? to rise up and seize "Global military and economic control". ...
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Yeah. Globalization. "Someone??" being the exorbitantly wealthy.
that seems to ignore the depth of history and reality of humans that says that will never happen because other Rich and Powerful people will disagree with not being in control.
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Quite the opposite. Oppressive class-based societies tend to end as a result, speaking broadly, of either internal discord/turmoil/uprising or the external influence of other societies, often through domination. Globalization is the effort, from an economic standpoint, to integrate all nations of the world into the same borderless system of trade and commerce, a global society in monetary matters. A new global society in monetary matters gives rise to the potential for global monetary oppression with, as you said at the start, the same old rotten class structures as ever.Such an oppressive society has several distinct advantages over those through history. One being the rather obvious lack of any external threat, another being the extreme difficulty the oppressed class faces in confronting such a society, traditional uprisings, especially violent, more or less obsolete.

Global Military Control?? Who is this mysterious cabal trying to establish Global Military Control?? Are they working with the Chinese? The Russians? Must be the US you are talking about...with its closing of 2 wars and drastic defense cuts, its over-stretched solider and burgeoning veterans issues... How will the US - with the help of "halliburton" no doubt- achieve this Global Military Control? Will they occupy every country? Or just threaten them with annihilation until they submit? ...or will they simply project with their "gunboat diplomacy" as they have for centuries?
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America has global military dominance currently, without question. Has for some time, will for the forseeable future. No, America isn't going to physically conquer the planet. Their military has however been exploited more than once to act as strong-man for corporate/monetary interests. See Iraq. Both episodes.

How exactly are these evil "corporations" dictating policy in China? Is Google telling the Chinese government what to censor?
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There's this thing called money. People tend to enjoy it. Some rather more than doing the right thing. China is by no means closed to corporate influence, and certainly isn't immune to corruption.

So, which "multinationals" truly benefited from the last 2 wars- can your provide some actual numbers to quantify your assertion. Allow me to help. Halliburton did score well- receiving approximately $40 billion over the last decade. The next 2 largest recipients were Kuwaiti companies. A total of $138 billion was exchanged in private contracts in Iraq over 10yrs- thats not profit- thats revenue. A hell of a lot of money but not enough to go to war for. By contrast Apple makes about $40 billion in profit on $200 billion in revenue PER YEAR.
The vast majority of your "mind-blowing profits" have nothing to do with the Iraq war or military action at all.
As for oil- the mantra of Iraq being a "war for oil" was always misguided at best...perhaps it was a war for Chinese oil as they seem to be the biggest beneficiaries:
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You've got a gaping blind-spot for Exxonmobile I see.

Well, he Was a politician so, he could very well be lying or misinterpreting the facts.
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he was Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs to the United Kingdom. It's an appointed position. He wasn't a politician. He was also responsible for MI6, which was directly accountable to him. As in he oversaw and had considerable authority over the British intelligence machine.

It seems he simply lumps Bin Laden in the mujaheddin and then extrapolates that since the Mujahedin received assistance from the CIA via the ISI that "he was armed by the CIA"- Its Bunk that gets repeated as "fact" over and over. Simply saying that because the CIA funded the mujahedin in Afghanistan and that Bin Laden was in Afghanistan and tangentially part of the Mujahedin - therefore he was "armed by the CIA". The reality on the ground was that Bin Laden was an outsider and on the periphery of the Mujahedin for much of the 80s. The FACT is there is no direct evidence of CIA $$ going to Arab fighters in Afghanistan or any direct evidence of any direct CIA-Bin Laden connection. Nor does Mr. Cook offer any.
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if that's how it 'seems' to you, it's clear to me you either misread or misunderstood. He's not drawing loose lines, he's stating, as a man who'd know and had no reason to lie, that the CIA database of Mujahadeen fighters was called AlQueda before AlQueda was a movement, and that OBL was a monster the CIA had a hand in making.

Rohan Gunaratna, research fellow at the centre for the study of terrorism and political violence at the University of St Andrews, takes a different view.
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that's nice, but Osama Bin Laden himself was somewhat clear on this point.

This conversation has roamed all over the place, but in an attempt to bring it back to the thread: The problem vigilant citizen has is, although he has a decent notion of some of the really messed up stuff in our culture, he can't see the forest for the trees. He's so caught up in his illuminati super villains orchestrated by Satan that any accurate assessment he makes gets buried in all the nonsense. Debunkers on this site often seem to have the same problem. They get so bogged down in all the nonsense surrounding conspiracy theories that the bigger picture eludes them... Going so far as to demand super villains and Satan be called out by name before the premise of a conspiracy can even be considered.
 
No RFID chip has electro shock capability. That is an impossibility at this time and for any time in the near future. A RFID chip small enough to be implanted in a human or animal, is a passive chip. It has NO power suppy and no attenae either. It has a range of a less than a meter at the most.

RFID chips on most packaging have attenae and they will have a greater range, but it is still measured in the tens of meters. Only active chips that have their own power supply can transmit any distance and that is still very limited.

To be able to cause an electro shock, a chip would need a large power supply.

There are basically three types of tags:
1.Active RFID Tag: An active tag has an inbuilt battery to trigger the signals through the antenna.
2.Passive RFID Tag: Passive tags do not have any internal battery and need an external source to help trigger radio frequency signals through the tag.
3.Battery-assisted Passive RFID Tag: The battery-assisted passive tag requires a battery to start the device but has a significant amount of power to carry on the signal transmission process.
Every tag is given a unique number, similar to a user identification number. The processing device reads the tag, and hence, finds out information about the article.
Now, let us take a look at RFID frequency. High frequency RFID systems typically operate in frequency ranges 850 MHz to 950 MHz and 2.4 GHz to 2.5 GHz. These devices can transmit over a range of 90 feet. Low frequency RFID systems have small ranges, somewhere around 6 feet and operate at a frequency of 30 Khz to 500 Khz. RFID is sometimes also referred to as Dedicated Short Range Communication (DSRC).
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio-frequency_identification

http://www.rfidjournal.com/articles/view?4585

http://www.rfidgazette.org/2007/04/rfid_implants_5.html
 
lemonlover said:
It's un human. We will be treated like sheep. Apparently the chips they want to put into us have electro-shock treatment. That picture is horrible eewwwwwwwwwww.
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The yellow is just an anti-bacterial application.
"Apparently", according to who? That sounds like completely paranoid speculation, not something worth basing a world-view on.
 
Grieves said:
... They get so bogged down in all the nonsense surrounding conspiracy theories that the bigger picture eludes them... Going so far as to demand super villains and Satan be called out by name before the premise of a conspiracy can even be considered.
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I don't think anyone should accept vagueness in subscribing to a belief about the world in which they live.
 
lemonlover said:
It's un human. We will be treated like sheep. Apparently the chips they want to put into us have electro-shock treatment. That picture is horrible eewwwwwwwwwww.
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What exactly are you talking about except utter nonsense? Electro-shock treatment? In a chip? Do you take anytime at all to research anything what you say? Please take some tine before regurgitating bilge like this.
 
lemonlover said:
In 1776 the illuminati set out 25 goals to achieve a new world order. One of those goals was to reveal them selves at a point where nobody could do anything about it.
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lemonlover, post: 56115, member: 2260

I first heard about them from Ted Gunnderson in a video where he mentions a book called "pawns in the game" and then he reads them out. I haven't read the book and can provide no concrete proof that they are genuine or whatever
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"Pawns In The Game" is a book by William Guy Carr, who could be regarded as the daddy of conspiracy theory as far as the "Illuminati" is concerned. The book is a rambling, linking together of all things evil under the illuminati banner.
A potted version of the "twenty five goals" are all over the ct websites, most of them using the Gunderson video as a source. The book is not available but can be read here...
www.jesus-is-savior.com/.../Communism/pawnsinthegame.pdf ‎

Gunderson is summarising the goals. here is the full version from the book (the very important bold type is inserted by the site)....


"The following is what I have been assured*// By whom, and based on what ? is a condensed
version of the plot by which the conspirators hoped to obtain ultimate undisputed control of the
wealth, natural resources, and man-power of the entire world.

1. The speaker started to unfold the plot by saying that because the majority of men were
inclined to
evil rather than to good the best results in governing them could be obtained by using
violence and terrorism and not by academic discussions. The speaker reasoned that in the
beginning human society had been subject to brutal and blind force which was afterwards
changed to
LAW. He argued that LAW was FORCE only in disguise. He reasoned it was logical
to conclude that “
By the laws of nature right lies in force”.
2. He next asserted that political freedom is an
idea and not a fact. He stated that in order to
usurp political power all that was necessary was to preach ‘Liberalism’ so that the electorate, for
the sake of an idea, would yield some of their power and prerogatives which the plotters could
then gather together into their own hands.
3. The speaker asserted that the
Power of Gold had usurped the power of liberal rulers even
then,
i.e. 1773. He reminded his audience that there had been a time when FAITH had ruled but
stated that once
FREEDOM had been substituted for FAITH the people did not know how to use it
in moderation. He argued that because of this fact it was logical to assume that they could use
the idea of
FREEDOM to bring about “CLASS WARS”. He pointed out that it was immaterial to the
success of
HIS plan whether the established governments were destroyed by internal or external
foes because the victor had of necessity to seek the aid of ‘Capital’ which “
Is entirely in our
hands
.” [2]
4. He argued that the use of any and all means to reach their final goal was justified on the
grounds that the ruler who governed by the moral code was not a skilled politician because he
left himself vulnerable and in an unstable position on his throne. He said “
Those who wish to
rule must have recourse to cunning and to make-believe because great national qualities like
frankness and honesty, are vices in politics
”[3]
5. He asserted “
Our right lies in force. The word RIGHT is an abstract thought and proves
nothing. I find a new
RIGHT ... to attack by the RIGHT of the strong, and to scatter to the winds
all existing forces of order and regulation, to reconstruct all existing institutions, and to become
the sovereign Lord of all those who left to us the
RIGHTS to their powers by laying them down
voluntarily in their ‘Liberalism’.
”
6. He then admonished his listeners with these words “
The power of our resources must remain
invisible until the very moment when it has gained such strength that no cunning or force can
undermine it.
” He warned them that any deviation from the Line of the strategical plan he was
making known to them would risk bringing to naught “
THE LABOURS OF CENTURIES”.
7. He next advocated the use of ‘Mob Psychology’ to obtain control of the masses. He
reasoned that the
might of the Mob is blind, senseless, and unreasoning and ever at the mercy of
suggestion from any side. He stated “
Only a despotic ruler can rule the Mob efficiently because
without absolute despotism there can be no existence for civilization which was carried out
NOT
http://yamaguchy.netfirms.com/carr/pawns_03.html (3 of 15)5.4.2006 12:13:25
William Carr, Pawns in the Game, ch 3
by the masses, but by their guide, whosoever that person might be.
” He warned “The moment
the Mob seizes
FREEDOM in its hands it quickly turns to anarchy.
”
8. He next advocated that the use of alcoholic
liquors, drugs, moral corruption, and all forms of
vice
, be used systematically by their “Agenturs”[4] to corrupt the morals of the youth of the
nations. He recommended that the special ‘agenturs’ should be trained as tutors, lackeys,
governesses, clerks and by our women in the places of dissipation frequented by the Goyim.
[5]
He added “
In the number of these last I count also the so-called society ladies who become
voluntary followers of the others in corruption and luxury. We must not stop at bribery, deceit,
and treachery when they should serve towards the attainment of our end
.”
9. Turning to politics he claimed they had the
RIGHT to seize property by any means, and
without hesitation, if by doing so they secured submission, and sovereignty. He pronounced
“
Our STATE marching along the path of peaceful conquest has the RIGHT to replace the horrors
of wars by less noticeable and more satisfactory sentences of death necessary to maintain the
‘terror’ which tends to produce blind submission
.”
10. Dealing with the use of slogans he said “
In ancient times we were the first to put the words
‘Liberty’, ‘Equality’ and ‘Fraternity’ into the mouths of the masses ... words repeated to this
day by stupid pollparrots; words which the would-be wise men of the Goyim could make
nothing of in their abstractness, and did not note the contradiction of their meaning and interrelation
.”
He claimed the words brought under their directions and control ‘legions’ “
Who bore
our banners with enthusiasm
.” He reasoned that there is no place in nature for ‘Equality’,
‘Liberty’ or ‘Fraternity’. He said “
On the ruins of the natural and genealogical aristocracy of
the Goyim we have set up the aristocracy of MONEY. The qualification for this aristocracy is
WEALTH
which is dependent upon us.
”
*// This would suppose that the speaker felt that hereditary aristocracy is a natural development (societal evolution) and
is a blessing; and that the gift of statecraft is perpetually passed on from father to son. Was it really his opinion, or was
it just visited upon him (after the fact) by the writer of these ‘original documents’ who seems to be in favour of
feudalism ?
11. He next expounded his theories regarding war. In 1773 he set down a principle which the
governments of Britain and the United States publicly announced as their joint policy in 1939.
He said it should be the policy of those present to foment wars but to direct the peace
conferences so that neither of the combatants obtained territorial gains. He said the wars should
be directed so that the nations engaged on both sides would be placed further in their debt, and
in the power of ‘Our’ Agenturs.
12. He next dealt with administration. He told those present that they must use their wealth to
have candidates chosen for public office who would be “
servile and obedient to our commands,
so they may readily be used as Pawns in our game by the learned and genious men we will
appoint to operate behind the scenes of government as official advisers
.” He added “The men
we appoint as ‘Advisers’ will have been bred, reared, and trained from childhood in
accordance with our ideas to rule the affairs of the whole world.
”
13. He dealt with propaganda, and explained how their combined wealth could control all
http://yamaguchy.netfirms.com/carr/pawns_03.html (4 of 15)5.4.2006 12:13:25
William Carr, Pawns in the Game, ch 3
outlets of public information while they remained in the shade and clear of blame regardless of
what the repercussions might be due to the publication of libels, slanders, or untruths. The
speaker said “
Thanks to the Press we have got gold in our hands notwithstanding the fact that
we had to gather it out of the oceans of blood and tears... But it has paid us even though we
have sacrificed many of our own people. Each victim on our side is worth a thousand Goyim
.”
14. He next explained the necessity of having their ‘Agentur’ always come out into the open,
and appear on the scene, when conditions had reached their lowest ebb, and the masses had been
subjugated by means of want and terror. He pointed out that when it was time to restore order
they should do it in such a way that the victims would believe they had been the prey of
criminals and irresponsibles. He said “
By executing the criminals and lunatics after they have
carried out our preconceived ‘reign of terror’, we can make ourselves appear as the saviours of
the oppressed, and the champions of the workers.
” The speaker then added “We are interested
in just the opposite ... in the diminution, the killing out of the Goyim.
”
15. He next explained how industrial depressions and financial panics could be brought about
and used to serve their purpose saying “
Enforced unemployment and hunger, imposed on the
masses because of the power we have to create shortages of food, will create the right of
Capital to rule more surely than it was given to the real aristocracy, and by the legal authority
of Kings
.” He claimed that by having their agentur control the ‘Mob’, the ‘Mob’ could then be
used to wipe out all who dared to stand in their way.
16. The infiltration into continental Freemasonry was next discussed extensively. The speaker
stated that their purpose would be to take advantage of the facilities and secrecy Freemasonry
had to offer. He pointed out that they could organize their own Grand Orient Lodges within
Blue Freemasonry in order to carry on their subversive activities and hide the true nature of their
work under the cloak of philanthropy. He stated that all members initiated into their Grand
Orient Lodges should be used for proselytizing purposes and for spreading their atheisticmaterialistic
ideology amongst the Goyim. He ended this phase of the discussion with the
words. “
When the hour strikes for our sovereign Lord of all the World to be crowned these
same hands will sweep away everything that might stand in his way.
”
*// Are you saying that (anti-catholic, anti-monarchial, anti-feudalist, anti-christian) freemasonry (continental or
otherwise) was good until the international money power ruined it ?
17. He next expounded the value of systematic deceptions, pointing out that their agentur
should be trained in the use of high sounding phrases, and the use of popular slogans. They
should make the masses the most lavish of promises. He observed “
The opposite of what has
been promised can always be done afterwards ... that is of no consequence.
” He reasoned that
by using such words as
Freedom and Liberty, the Goyim could be stirred up to such a pitch of
patriotic fervour that they could be made to fight even against the laws of God, and Nature. He
added “
And for this reason after we obtain control the very NAME OF GOD will be erased from
the ‘Lexicon of life’.
”[6]
18. He then detailed the plans for revolutionary war; the art of street fighting; and outlined the
pattern for the ‘Reign of Terror’ which he insisted must accompany every revolutionary effort
http://yamaguchy.netfirms.com/carr/pawns_03.html (5 of 15)5.4.2006 12:13:25
William Carr, Pawns in the Game, ch 3
“
Because it is the most economical way to bring the population to speedy subjection.”
19. Diplomacy was next discussed. After all wars secret diplomacy must be insisted upon “
in
order that our agentur, masquerading as ‘poltitical’, ‘Financial’, and ‘Economic’ advisers, can
carry out our mandates without fear of exposing who are ‘The Secret Power’ behind national
and international affairs.
” The speaker then told those present that by secret diplomacy they
must obtain such control “
that the nations cannot come to even an inconsiderable private
agreement without our secret agents having a hand in it.
”
20. Ultimate World Government the goal. To reach this goal the speaker told them “
It will be
necessary to establish huge monopolies, reservoirs of such colossal riches, that even the largest
fortunes of the Goyim will depend on us to such an extent that they will go to the bottom
together with the credit of their governments
ON THE DAY AFTER THE GREAT POLITICAL SMASH
.”
The speaker then added “
You gentlemen here present who are economists just strike an estimate
of the significance of this combination.
”
21. Economic war. Plans to rob the Goyim of their landed properties and industries were then
discussed. A combination of high taxes, and unfair competition was advocated to bring about
the economic ruin of the Goyim as far as their national financial interests and investments were
concerned. In the international field he felt they could be encouraged to price themselves out of
the markets. This could be achieved by the careful control of raw materials, organized agitation
amongst the workers for shorter hours and higher pay, and by subsidizing competitors. The
speaker warned his co-conspirators that they must arrange matters, and control conditions, so
that “
the increased wages obtained by the workers will not benefit them in any way.”
22. Armaments. It was suggested that the building up of armaments for the purpose of making
the Goyim destroy each other should be launched on such a colossal scale that in the final
analysis “
there will only be the masses of the proletariat left in the world, with a few
millionaires devoted to our cause ... and police, and soldiers sufficient to protect our interests.
”
23. The New Order. The members of the One World Government would be appointed by the
Dictator. He would pick men from amongst the scientists, the economists, the financiers, the
industrialists, and from the millionaires because “
in substance everything will be settled by the
question of figures.
”
24. Importance of youth. The importance of capturing the interest of youth was emphasized
with the admonition that “
Our agenturs should infiltrate into all classes, and levels of society
and government, for the purpose of fooling, bemusing, and corrupting the younger members of
society by teaching them theories and principles we know to be false.
”
25. National and International Laws should not be changed but should be used as they are, to
destroy the civilization of the Goyim “
merely by twisting them into a contradiction of the
interpretation which first masks the law and afterwards hides it altogether. Our ultimate aim is
to substitute
ARBITRATION for LAW."

Content from External Source
So fundamentally, thousands of conspiracy theorist sites are regurgitating the words of Gunderson, that he has taken from a book by Carr, which provides no source whatever for the information.
As you said, you cannot provide concrete proof that they are genuine......Nor can anyone else.
(There is a fanciful tale on one site of a messenger being struck by lightning as he was carrying the document containing the goals, that's quite entertaining, but Carr makes no mention of this).

I think we can file the 25 Goals under....."bullshit".
 
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Cairenn said:
They raided them because they thought that someone there was hacking and they found NOTHING.
Click to expand...

That might be the joke. It's possible that the same faction that demonstrated deep knowledge and so forth on 911 thought that there was something there in a satire when it was nothing. That's the way that satire is sometimes. When people are the material of satire, they think that it's real.

What was the evidence and why did the Secret Service raid them, again? Because according to what they said, the whole thing was thrown out as ridiculous. So, what was the pretext or the reason to send in the clowns in that case? Also, what if there was evidence that certain members of the CIA, SS, FBI and so forth were all members of the same secret society where they swore secret oaths to each other? If that were the case, then that might have some explanatory power with respect to the way that they bungle things or send in the clowns sometimes. Not that anyone else on the SWAT team or caught in the chain of command and so forth would have to know, that's the point... only those in the know would know. Although the others might wonder about just how incompetent and so forth their leaders supposedly are or just how much of it all is bureaucratic inertia and yet more bungling, given that it's possible people may hide in that just like some predators disguise themselves as leaves, background noise and so forth. Sometimes what looks like sand is just some sand. But other times, it's a predator. Panic!!!



It's a matter of pattern recognition and all that. I think we need better conspiracy theories to recognize this, not less. We do not need the total safety first mentality typical to oblivious coincidence theorists in which organisms are never sentient and never conspire to hide themselves because we're too busy imagining that they and everything else reduces to sand and atoms and so forth. So, panic.. now!

Ok, just kidding. If only I had some tangy tangerine to sell or get people to buy into, huh?

Y'all came here, and are trying to convince us and you are failing because all you have is opinions.
Click to expand...

I'm usually not trying to convince you of anything. I'm interacting with you in order to create theories and hypotheses for myself based on my own cycles of doubt/belief about the truth of things and so forth. And you're probably doing the same thing more than you might think. It might look like I'm trying to convince you in the process but it's probably more about me. Sorry about that.

Do you think that I should be trying to convince you of "conspiracy theories" or getting you to "buy into" them? Wouldn't that probably make you panic, rather uselessly too... given that I'm not into organizing movements or selling generators for when the power goes out and so forth?

Seems to me that it might be best if you're not convinced of most conspiracy theories if a safety first mentality and feeling good about things is the metric before we head the way of the Dodo. And from some perspectives, that seems to be the metric. Go back and read the post that started this thread again. As I recall, it went a little something like this: "Calm me down, please.. I'm feeling a little panicky here! Is there space for me in the bunker?" Etc. With some people it seems like one could read a few sentences and basically know their whole pattern of thought. But I read it all anyway, hoping for something new.
 
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Cairenn said:
You need folks make things, to be servants and such. To say they want to kill folks is nonsense.
Click to expand...

The ruling class has generally been predicting the extermination of other folks or saying that they want more folks aborted and their populations controlled for a long time. That's generally been out in the open for a while now. For instance... after the Darwin family was done emerging from their Masonic/ruling class networks, the whole eugenics movement emerged from the bowels of the body politic "randomly" and so forth.

No one really wants to kill anyone... except that they keep on saying that they do throughout history* or that the extermination of some folks is assured by science based on evolutionists' projection of colonialism onto nature and the Darwinian doctrine of scarcity and so forth.

*E.g.:
Most Eugenists are Euphemists. I mean merely that short words startle them, while long words soothe them. And they are utterly incapable of translating the one into the other, however obviously they mean the same thing. Say to them “The persuasive and even coercive powers of the citizen should enable him to make sure that the burden of longevity in the previous generation does not become disproportionate and intolerable, especially to the females”; say this to them and they will sway slightly to and fro like babies sent to sleep in cradles. Say to them “Murder your mother,” and they sit up quite suddenly. Yet the two sentences, in cold logic, are exactly the same. (Eugenics and Other Evils: An Argument Against the Scientifically Organized Society by G.K. Chesterton)
Content from External Source
 
Grieves said:
Yoni = vagina, less you're fooling.

I really fail to understand the refusal to perceive the rather obvious effort to establish a new form of global military and economic control. It's readily apparent, whether you believe it has anything to do with secret societies/satanists/reptilians or not.
Click to expand...

Just fooling.

The quest for control has been in progress since the first two humans had a territorial dispute over a cave. It's what we do and have always done. I don't think there's anything new about it.
 
lemonlover said:
It's un human. We will be treated like sheep. Apparently the chips they want to put into us have electro-shock treatment. That picture is horrible eewwwwwwwwwww.
Click to expand...

Really I think what you want to focus on is not being treated like sheep. That's something that's entirely independent of the RFID tag. In fact using RFID tags is not even a very good way of doing it, and some form of biometric recognition is more likely to be used for generic identification. Stuff like iris recognition.

There's really no great benefit to a hypothetical shadowy cabal, of forcing microchips on everyone.
 
mynym said:
The ruling class has generally been predicting the extermination of other folks or saying that they want more folks aborted and their populations controlled for a long time.
Click to expand...

Who says they want more folk aborted?

Who has predicted "the extermination of other folks"?
 
Melbury's Brick said:
"Pawns In The Game" is a book by William Guy Carr, who could be regarded as the daddy of conspiracy theory as far as the "Illuminati" is concerned. The book is a rambling, linking together of all things evil under the illuminati banner.
A potted version of the "twenty five goals" are all over the ct websites, most of them using the Gunderson video as a source. The book is not available but can be read here...
www.jesus-is-savior.com/.../Communism/pawnsinthegame.pdf ‎

Gunderson is summarising the goals. here is the full version from the book (the very important bold type is inserted by the site)....


"The following is what I have been assured*// By whom, and based on what ? is a condensed
version of the plot by which the conspirators hoped to obtain ultimate undisputed control of the
wealth, natural resources, and man-power of the entire world.

1. The speaker started to unfold the plot by saying that because the majority of men were
inclined to
evil rather than to good the best results in governing them could be obtained by using
violence and terrorism and not by academic discussions. The speaker reasoned that in the
beginning human society had been subject to brutal and blind force which was afterwards
changed to
LAW. He argued that LAW was FORCE only in disguise. He reasoned it was logical
to conclude that “
By the laws of nature right lies in force”.
2. He next asserted that political freedom is an
idea and not a fact. He stated that in order to
usurp political power all that was necessary was to preach ‘Liberalism’ so that the electorate, for
the sake of an idea, would yield some of their power and prerogatives which the plotters could
then gather together into their own hands.
3. The speaker asserted that the
Power of Gold had usurped the power of liberal rulers even
then,
i.e. 1773. He reminded his audience that there had been a time when FAITH had ruled but
stated that once
FREEDOM had been substituted for FAITH the people did not know how to use it
in moderation. He argued that because of this fact it was logical to assume that they could use
the idea of
FREEDOM to bring about “CLASS WARS”. He pointed out that it was immaterial to the
success of
HIS plan whether the established governments were destroyed by internal or external
foes because the victor had of necessity to seek the aid of ‘Capital’ which “
Is entirely in our
hands
.” [2]
4. He argued that the use of any and all means to reach their final goal was justified on the
grounds that the ruler who governed by the moral code was not a skilled politician because he
left himself vulnerable and in an unstable position on his throne. He said “
Those who wish to
rule must have recourse to cunning and to make-believe because great national qualities like
frankness and honesty, are vices in politics
”[3]
5. He asserted “
Our right lies in force. The word RIGHT is an abstract thought and proves
nothing. I find a new
RIGHT ... to attack by the RIGHT of the strong, and to scatter to the winds
all existing forces of order and regulation, to reconstruct all existing institutions, and to become
the sovereign Lord of all those who left to us the
RIGHTS to their powers by laying them down
voluntarily in their ‘Liberalism’.
”
6. He then admonished his listeners with these words “
The power of our resources must remain
invisible until the very moment when it has gained such strength that no cunning or force can
undermine it.
” He warned them that any deviation from the Line of the strategical plan he was
making known to them would risk bringing to naught “
THE LABOURS OF CENTURIES”.
7. He next advocated the use of ‘Mob Psychology’ to obtain control of the masses. He
reasoned that the
might of the Mob is blind, senseless, and unreasoning and ever at the mercy of
suggestion from any side. He stated “
Only a despotic ruler can rule the Mob efficiently because
without absolute despotism there can be no existence for civilization which was carried out
NOT
http://yamaguchy.netfirms.com/carr/pawns_03.html (3 of 15)5.4.2006 12:13:25
William Carr, Pawns in the Game, ch 3
by the masses, but by their guide, whosoever that person might be.
” He warned “The moment
the Mob seizes
FREEDOM in its hands it quickly turns to anarchy.
”
8. He next advocated that the use of alcoholic
liquors, drugs, moral corruption, and all forms of
vice
, be used systematically by their “Agenturs”[4] to corrupt the morals of the youth of the
nations. He recommended that the special ‘agenturs’ should be trained as tutors, lackeys,
governesses, clerks and by our women in the places of dissipation frequented by the Goyim.
[5]
He added “
In the number of these last I count also the so-called society ladies who become
voluntary followers of the others in corruption and luxury. We must not stop at bribery, deceit,
and treachery when they should serve towards the attainment of our end
.”
9. Turning to politics he claimed they had the
RIGHT to seize property by any means, and
without hesitation, if by doing so they secured submission, and sovereignty. He pronounced
“
Our STATE marching along the path of peaceful conquest has the RIGHT to replace the horrors
of wars by less noticeable and more satisfactory sentences of death necessary to maintain the
‘terror’ which tends to produce blind submission
.”
10. Dealing with the use of slogans he said “
In ancient times we were the first to put the words
‘Liberty’, ‘Equality’ and ‘Fraternity’ into the mouths of the masses ... words repeated to this
day by stupid pollparrots; words which the would-be wise men of the Goyim could make
nothing of in their abstractness, and did not note the contradiction of their meaning and interrelation
.”
He claimed the words brought under their directions and control ‘legions’ “
Who bore
our banners with enthusiasm
.” He reasoned that there is no place in nature for ‘Equality’,
‘Liberty’ or ‘Fraternity’. He said “
On the ruins of the natural and genealogical aristocracy of
the Goyim we have set up the aristocracy of MONEY. The qualification for this aristocracy is
WEALTH
which is dependent upon us.
”
*// This would suppose that the speaker felt that hereditary aristocracy is a natural development (societal evolution) and
is a blessing; and that the gift of statecraft is perpetually passed on from father to son. Was it really his opinion, or was
it just visited upon him (after the fact) by the writer of these ‘original documents’ who seems to be in favour of
feudalism ?
11. He next expounded his theories regarding war. In 1773 he set down a principle which the
governments of Britain and the United States publicly announced as their joint policy in 1939.
He said it should be the policy of those present to foment wars but to direct the peace
conferences so that neither of the combatants obtained territorial gains. He said the wars should
be directed so that the nations engaged on both sides would be placed further in their debt, and
in the power of ‘Our’ Agenturs.
12. He next dealt with administration. He told those present that they must use their wealth to
have candidates chosen for public office who would be “
servile and obedient to our commands,
so they may readily be used as Pawns in our game by the learned and genious men we will
appoint to operate behind the scenes of government as official advisers
.” He added “The men
we appoint as ‘Advisers’ will have been bred, reared, and trained from childhood in
accordance with our ideas to rule the affairs of the whole world.
”
13. He dealt with propaganda, and explained how their combined wealth could control all
http://yamaguchy.netfirms.com/carr/pawns_03.html (4 of 15)5.4.2006 12:13:25
William Carr, Pawns in the Game, ch 3
outlets of public information while they remained in the shade and clear of blame regardless of
what the repercussions might be due to the publication of libels, slanders, or untruths. The
speaker said “
Thanks to the Press we have got gold in our hands notwithstanding the fact that
we had to gather it out of the oceans of blood and tears... But it has paid us even though we
have sacrificed many of our own people. Each victim on our side is worth a thousand Goyim
.”
14. He next explained the necessity of having their ‘Agentur’ always come out into the open,
and appear on the scene, when conditions had reached their lowest ebb, and the masses had been
subjugated by means of want and terror. He pointed out that when it was time to restore order
they should do it in such a way that the victims would believe they had been the prey of
criminals and irresponsibles. He said “
By executing the criminals and lunatics after they have
carried out our preconceived ‘reign of terror’, we can make ourselves appear as the saviours of
the oppressed, and the champions of the workers.
” The speaker then added “We are interested
in just the opposite ... in the diminution, the killing out of the Goyim.
”
15. He next explained how industrial depressions and financial panics could be brought about
and used to serve their purpose saying “
Enforced unemployment and hunger, imposed on the
masses because of the power we have to create shortages of food, will create the right of
Capital to rule more surely than it was given to the real aristocracy, and by the legal authority
of Kings
.” He claimed that by having their agentur control the ‘Mob’, the ‘Mob’ could then be
used to wipe out all who dared to stand in their way.
16. The infiltration into continental Freemasonry was next discussed extensively. The speaker
stated that their purpose would be to take advantage of the facilities and secrecy Freemasonry
had to offer. He pointed out that they could organize their own Grand Orient Lodges within
Blue Freemasonry in order to carry on their subversive activities and hide the true nature of their
work under the cloak of philanthropy. He stated that all members initiated into their Grand
Orient Lodges should be used for proselytizing purposes and for spreading their atheisticmaterialistic
ideology amongst the Goyim. He ended this phase of the discussion with the
words. “
When the hour strikes for our sovereign Lord of all the World to be crowned these
same hands will sweep away everything that might stand in his way.
”
*// Are you saying that (anti-catholic, anti-monarchial, anti-feudalist, anti-christian) freemasonry (continental or
otherwise) was good until the international money power ruined it ?
17. He next expounded the value of systematic deceptions, pointing out that their agentur
should be trained in the use of high sounding phrases, and the use of popular slogans. They
should make the masses the most lavish of promises. He observed “
The opposite of what has
been promised can always be done afterwards ... that is of no consequence.
” He reasoned that
by using such words as
Freedom and Liberty, the Goyim could be stirred up to such a pitch of
patriotic fervour that they could be made to fight even against the laws of God, and Nature. He
added “
And for this reason after we obtain control the very NAME OF GOD will be erased from
the ‘Lexicon of life’.
”[6]
18. He then detailed the plans for revolutionary war; the art of street fighting; and outlined the
pattern for the ‘Reign of Terror’ which he insisted must accompany every revolutionary effort
http://yamaguchy.netfirms.com/carr/pawns_03.html (5 of 15)5.4.2006 12:13:25
William Carr, Pawns in the Game, ch 3
“
Because it is the most economical way to bring the population to speedy subjection.”
19. Diplomacy was next discussed. After all wars secret diplomacy must be insisted upon “
in
order that our agentur, masquerading as ‘poltitical’, ‘Financial’, and ‘Economic’ advisers, can
carry out our mandates without fear of exposing who are ‘The Secret Power’ behind national
and international affairs.
” The speaker then told those present that by secret diplomacy they
must obtain such control “
that the nations cannot come to even an inconsiderable private
agreement without our secret agents having a hand in it.
”
20. Ultimate World Government the goal. To reach this goal the speaker told them “
It will be
necessary to establish huge monopolies, reservoirs of such colossal riches, that even the largest
fortunes of the Goyim will depend on us to such an extent that they will go to the bottom
together with the credit of their governments
ON THE DAY AFTER THE GREAT POLITICAL SMASH
.”
The speaker then added “
You gentlemen here present who are economists just strike an estimate
of the significance of this combination.
”
21. Economic war. Plans to rob the Goyim of their landed properties and industries were then
discussed. A combination of high taxes, and unfair competition was advocated to bring about
the economic ruin of the Goyim as far as their national financial interests and investments were
concerned. In the international field he felt they could be encouraged to price themselves out of
the markets. This could be achieved by the careful control of raw materials, organized agitation
amongst the workers for shorter hours and higher pay, and by subsidizing competitors. The
speaker warned his co-conspirators that they must arrange matters, and control conditions, so
that “
the increased wages obtained by the workers will not benefit them in any way.”
22. Armaments. It was suggested that the building up of armaments for the purpose of making
the Goyim destroy each other should be launched on such a colossal scale that in the final
analysis “
there will only be the masses of the proletariat left in the world, with a few
millionaires devoted to our cause ... and police, and soldiers sufficient to protect our interests.
”
23. The New Order. The members of the One World Government would be appointed by the
Dictator. He would pick men from amongst the scientists, the economists, the financiers, the
industrialists, and from the millionaires because “
in substance everything will be settled by the
question of figures.
”
24. Importance of youth. The importance of capturing the interest of youth was emphasized
with the admonition that “
Our agenturs should infiltrate into all classes, and levels of society
and government, for the purpose of fooling, bemusing, and corrupting the younger members of
society by teaching them theories and principles we know to be false.
”
25. National and International Laws should not be changed but should be used as they are, to
destroy the civilization of the Goyim “
merely by twisting them into a contradiction of the
interpretation which first masks the law and afterwards hides it altogether. Our ultimate aim is
to substitute
ARBITRATION for LAW."
Content from External Source

So fundamentally, thousands of conspiracy theorist sites are regurgitating the words of Gunderson, that he has taken from a book by Carr, which provides no source whatever for the information.
As you said, you cannot provide concrete proof that they are genuine......Nor can anyone else.
(There is a fanciful tale on one site of a messenger being struck by lightning as he was carrying the document containing the goals, that's quite entertaining, but Carr makes no mention of this).

I think we can file the 25 Goals under....."bullshit".
Click to expand...


Like I say, I have no concrete evidence that they are real. But All those other videos I've shown you prove that the new world order is real.
 
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lemonlover said:
Like I say, I have no concrete evidence that they are real. But All those other videos I've shown you prove that the new world order is real.
Click to expand...

No they don't. They just claim it is real, and then use confirmation bias to cherry pick information and present it as evidence. It can be very convincing if you are already mostly convinced.

It's like saying the Bible is proof of God. That claim makes no sense to atheists, but to hard-core Christians that seems like a perfectly self-evident statement.

If the videos were proof, then everyone would be convinced. The fact that only a very small number of people are convinced means they are simply some engaging propaganda that appeals to a certain audience.
 
Mick West said:
Really I think what you want to focus on is not being treated like sheep. That's something that's entirely independent of the RFID tag. In fact using RFID tags is not even a very good way of doing it, and some form of biometric recognition is more likely to be used for generic identification. Stuff like iris recognition.

There's really no great benefit to a hypothetical shadowy cabal, of forcing microchips on everyone.
Click to expand...
Yep but RFID's just complete the job... like a brand or a tag in the ear or a friendly internal exam at the roadside. :)

BombDr would disagree with your sentiments if he wasn't AWOL since the NSA scandal broke ... https://www.metabunk.org/threads/lo...s-debunked-by-infowars.1639/page-3#post-47515
 
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