1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Tom Delong.
    "Something extraordinary is about to be revealed" wrote Leslie Kean in an article today in the Huffington Post. This type of breathless anticipation of a revelation runs through all of conspiracy culture. Chemtrail promoters are constantly saying how the government is at the point of admitting to covert geoengineering. 9/11 Truthers are constant on the verge of finding the definitive whistle blower. And people who think the government is covering up knowledge of encounters with aliens (or alien technology) are constant operating with the sense that "disclosure" is just around the corner.

    But nothing ever happens.

    Kean starts out strong, with an exciting headline. "Inside Knowledge About Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Could Lead To World-Changing Technology", which is the sort of thing that's literally true - like if we found out how alien spacecraft worked (or just got a good look at one) then it would likely yield useful science. But it a tautology that's basically meaningless if there is no actual data to study.

    She then gets to what this is actually about:
    Basically DeLonge is a UFO enthusiast, and probably a big reader of science fiction. He believes the government is hiding alien technology and has fallen for the allure of impending "disclosure". Given that he's moderately rich and famous he figures he can spend some of his money and use his celebrity status to push this along. So he set up this company "To The Stars", thinking that it's such a popular topic that he can advance the cause of disclosure while making money by developing warp drives, making documentaries and selling merchandise. So far he's sunk over $600,000 into it, but does not yet seem to have made any significant income. He has been in talks with people like Netflix, Amazon and VICE though, which is likely where the money will be.

    He has gathered a following, after all who would not want to be part of a well funded company with aims like this:
    "Steve" there is Steve Justice, the Director of the Aerospace Division of DeLonge's TTS. There's a lot of similarly impressively titled corporate officers with similarly impressive goals for the technology that's about to be somehow handed just to them. "Engineering Space-Time" might be about the most impressive though, behind telepathy. Although "consciousness" might be up there, depending on what it means.
    20171010-141620-7zwo3.

    It's hard to take this seriously, as it all seems to be on the boundary between fantasy and reality - between science fiction and actual science. Mostly though it all just seems like wishful thinking.

    People want to believe. People like me who read science fiction want to have visits from aliens, we want to colonize the planets, we want to develop warp drives, we want flying cars. But it's easy to slip from wanting things to assuming that those things are just around the corner, even being deliberately withheld by the government for some unknown reason.

    When enough people make that mental slip it becomes a self-reinforcing phenomena amongst those prone to this type of thinking. The primary source of evidence becomes the sheer number of people who believe it is true. Kean talking to Steve Justice:
    Of course we can apply this "so many smart, credible people" to all kinds of topics - 9/11 Truth for example has various organizations of engineers and scientists who think they have evidence that the WTC towers were destroyed by controlled demolition. Lots of "smart credible people" think man-made climate change is a hoax, lots more have seen ghosts, think you can run a car on water, talked to God, and been abducted by aliens. You can find a small percentage of smart people who will back just about any idea - the real challenge is to get actual evidence.

    Unfortunately though this fallacy of group authority seems to work. People believe in 9/11 Truth because a small percentage of a huge group is still a lot of people, and a lot of people can seem like everyone believes, if those people are the one you spend most of your time conversing with on the topic.

    So why am I writing this the day before the big disclosure? Largely because I don't think it's going to be a big disclosure. It's going to be the announcement of some project that's largely a continuation of their stated goals. Maybe with some new retired guy who wants to share his story about strange lights in the sky he saw in the 1960s. But there's going to be no real meat, no disclosure. More specifically I think that Kean's claim that "Something extraordinary is about to be revealed" is false.

    I'd be more than happy to be proved wrong, we'll see tomorrow.

    Sci-fi fans are going colonize the solar system, and maybe beyond. But it's not going to be these folk who expect some kind of magical bounty from mythical alien technology for which there is no real evidence. It's going to be more pragmatic folk building upon real science. Tom DeLonge will not take us to the stars, but Elon Musk just might.
     

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    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
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  2. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Support from John Podesta for DeLonge's announcement. Minor intersection of conspiracies, as Podesta was part of the "Pizzagate" nonsense. See the comments.

    Source: https://twitter.com/johnpodesta/status/917869274387173376


    Podesta has come up before with the some emails with DeLonge that came up in Wikileaks. That leak was great publicity for DeLonge

    https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/2125
    The photos are marketing material for DeLong's "Sekret Machines" project of semi-fictional books and films.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  3. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    This story suggests it's just going to be introducing the people listed on their web site, and someone telling a UFO story.
    http://www.lasvegasnow.com/news/i-t...ng-edge-science-to-investigate-ufos/832215374
    Utter nonsense of course. If you have alien technology you don't spend years making a flying car. You tell the world you have alien technology.
    upload_2017-10-10_22-25-3.

    Vague promises of amazing things is one of the the hallmarks of a free-energy scam (like Steorn, which burned though $23 million and produced nothing). But I doubt it's even that. I think Stephen Justice and others are simply thinking that they can use eyewitness accounts of how UFOs flew to figure out the physics and then build something similar.

    What's sad is that he's going to keep getting media attention like the above, and more people will think that there's actually something to this.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
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  4. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  5. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    They fleshed out the artwork for the flying craft a little. Still requires some magic.


    20171011-085222-4jdqy.

     
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  6. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  7. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  8. ufoofinterest

    ufoofinterest Member

  9. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Steve Justice talked. He's basically saying if we try really hard then we will be able to advance technology and make amazing stuff that will change the world. That's all.

    What exactly does he think scientists and R&D departments are doing?

    I think the problem here is that they secretly think that there's some secret UFO technology in a government hanger, but they can't say this because it sounds silly. So they are stuck with this "wish really really hard" approach
     
  10. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  11. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    DeLonge closed with what this is all about, a call for investors.
     
  12. Willie Kay

    Willie Kay Member

    I couldn’t get any sound on the webpage broadcast and unfortunately I noticed UFO of Interests link too late. The few minutes I did hear seemed to be purely investing orientated.
     
  13. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

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  14. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    that design makes no sense what-so-ever.
     
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  15. Willie Kay

    Willie Kay Member

    Thanks Mick, I watched it, however, I wasn’t impressed. The pitch was very broad, from using the money raised to make films for entertainment (cinema/online) to doing research on fringe technology. In my opinion, it’s doomed to failure.
     
  16. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Leslie Kean clarifies what she thinks the amazing thing is
    https://www.facebook.com/lesliekean/posts/1563690393688692
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
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  17. NoParty

    NoParty Senior Member

    Mmmmmm...gonna need a lot of ketchup to mask that Nothingburger...

    So on your big reveal day, you offer not a damned thing that would suggest that your
    lengthy line-up of names has any intriguing, insider UFO info at all?!?

    This passage also caught my eye:

    "...entertainment company called To The Stars (TTS)...the goal of disseminating information about UFOs..."

    First, they're admitting up front that it's entertainment, and a way of "maximizing profit for shareholders,"
    presumably monetizing content gullible folks send in.
    Also, no real need to beg for $$$ to build a slick website for "
    disseminating information about UFOs..."
    ...that entity already exists: It's called the Internet.

    You called it, Mick.
     
  18. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    actually, my conclusion from that blurb is that Luiz Elizondo must have solid evidence of aliens, as well as the blueprints to all the technology already. Otherwise, why would he leave a job with access to the inside information?
     
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  19. Jon Lee

    Jon Lee New Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 11, 2017
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  20. Willie Kay

    Willie Kay Member

    I don’t fully understand what part the entertainment/film side plays in all this. To make a decent sci-fi film would cost a fair bit with no guarantees of any return (Battlefield Earth anyone?). Also what would be the aim in making these films? The whole idea is very confusing.
     
  21. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    From articles I've read, it sounds kinda like .."Loose Change" or that movie Al Gore made about climate change. I think the goal is to '[get the public on board]' (on board the idea, not on board the fantasy plane).
     
  22. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    This seems to be the closest explanation of the "amazing thing"
    http://www.lasvegasnow.com/news/i-team-public-company-launched-to-investigate-ufos/833004610
    Some background:
    Blue Book stopped because the program was flawed. However that does not mean that the military would then simply ignore any report of an flying object that eluded identification. Of course they looked into them. The most obvious reason being that these reports, especially from experienced personnel, could represent new treats from old foes - specifically Russia and China, but also ISIS, North Korea, etc.

    Elizondo gives no details or representative as to what his program actually did on a daily basis. Perhaps it was simply looking into pilot reports. Maybe it was things like combatting drones used for novel forms surveillance or attacks. For example:

    https://www.bnl.gov/isd/documents/94219.pdf
    So unless he gives some actual information from his work, then all we have is his own personal conviction.
     
  23. Whitebeard

    Whitebeard Senior Member

    I can't help but a slight feeling of Deja vu about this whole affair
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/features/regpresley.shtml
    [​IMG]
     
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  24. Sagittarius

    Sagittarius Member

  25. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I’ve not looked into it. But I doubt they would use an identified case as their prime example.
     
  26. NoParty

    NoParty Senior Member

    My take is that they're hoping to use this (still unsubstantiated) credibility they're claiming
    to legitimize entertainment films (of any budget) that they'll make...as "true" or "insider" info.

    I wouldn't invest a dime of my money with these guys, but there is a market for UFO stuff,
    and if they can convince folks that their entertainment is more real than other fiction,
    who knows, they might make some money.

    (Hell, they managed to get national coverage for this relatively empty announcement from
    Rolling Stone, Engadget, Maxim, HuffPo, Newsweek (!) & some outfit known as Metabunk.)
     
  27. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Well I'm only covering them because I think the other sources, especially HuffPo, are being far too unskeptical. This is really about the claim that "something amazing" was going to be revealed. It's interesting that the UFO community seems to think this IS amazing, that someone from "government" has come forward and said that something unspecified and likely unknowable was "real".
     
  28. NoParty

    NoParty Senior Member

    Oh, I know. And I couldn't agree more. It was just fun, as I looked to see who had
    given them attention, to see us on that list...fortunately for better reasons...
     
  29. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I just read the article https://fightersweep.com/1460/x-files-edition/

    Sounds to me like glitches on a new radar system, maybe some half-glimpsed seagulls, combined with unnecessary reverence for the observational and interpretational capabilities of pilots. The two "white blob on blue sky" photos accompany the article are from unrelated cases, probably balloons. But those images make it look like there's more evidence than there actually is.

    Also the entire story is related with what appears to be a degree of creativity.

    Here's the source of the second image, from a UFO summoner. Just a balloon.
    [Edit: not the same, similar]

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtdFUT6pnHo
     
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  30. Sagittarius

    Sagittarius Member

    Yes, indeed - apart from the military jargon which I didn't understand.

    I'm always amused at the reverence given to pilots, police, military, etc. who report UFOs, as if their credibility is somehow more worthy of respect than that of the average person! From what I've read, they're no more, nor no less, capable of reporting accurately than anyone else.
     
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  31. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    in his opinion. Which I assume means he has no concrete evidence
     
  32. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    A direct example of this is the Chilean Navy case.

    https://www.metabunk.org/explained-chilean-navy-ufo-video-aerodynamic-contrails-flight-ib6830.t8306/

    Of course pilots are better at visually interpreting some situations. But that does not make them immune to mistake. It perhaps improves their odds, but also brings some unique cognitive biases.
     
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  33. Landru

    Landru Moderator Staff Member

    I was an Intelligence Specialist serving on board the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower. We had a F-14 pilot come back and said he had a picture of an AGI (a Soviet intelligence ship) we were interested in. We developed his film. He had a picture of a cruise ship.
     
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  34. Z.W. Wolf

    Z.W. Wolf Active Member

  35. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The UFO image there comes from this Rense.com page dated 2005:
    http://www.rense.com/general67/ufoph.htm
    upload_2017-10-14_18-14-19.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    It appears to be a mylar balloon, possible a number or letter type, like a party balloon, a "1" or "I"
    upload_2017-10-14_18-21-13.
    upload_2017-10-14_18-18-49.

    I'm not sure if the image was used in DeLonge's presentation, but it's inclusion the linked story does not give it much credibility.
     
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  36. John85

    John85 Member

    I think several important angles risk being missed in the process of attempting to debunk the announcement.

    • A private company has been set up to investigate UFOs/UAP, not a nonprofit like MUFON, and it is not simply to break new scientific ground for humanity's understanding.
    • It seeks to create a groundswell of enthusiasm for a new space race compared to the strength of feeling last achieved during the Cold War with the Soviet Union, because with popular support for advanced programs, research and development can happen more quickly. If I understood correctly, this is a nationalistic, military agenda.
    • It has the overt support of senior defense officials, one of whom has revealed a previously unknown high-level government UAP study group.
    • It seeks to change public opinion by mixing education with entertainment. They want to spur the movement on by influencing Hollywood to broaden its sci-fi palette to include themes favorable to the TTS/AAS agenda. In other words, generate propaganda.

    Questions to ask ourselves:
    If this venture has gained public backing from ex-government officials, why does the government wish to offer support?
    If there is to be a 'space race' level of popular interest, why the urgency?
    Will this space race also have an enemy (real or imagined)?
    If groundbreaking discoveries are made publicly, will the defense world be permitted to 'reveal' similar discoveries already made?
    Will the defense officials proactively 'leak' certain classified developments to this organization so that they can be exposed to public view?
    Who will own and benefit from such advances?
    What does this loose association of defense officials, aerospace engineers and propagandists wish to study, if UAP are all really Chinese lanterns, airplane landing lights and the planet Venus?

    There seems to be a lot of apprehension and discomfort about the topic of this venture on Metabunk. I would counter this by suggesting that not everything UFO-related should be regarded a priori as merely some conventional phenomenon:

    http://amasci.com/weird/end.html

    That statement was made before relativity and quantum physics were elaborated.

    There is a lot that we do not know, both about the exterior universe (what dark matter is) and about our interior universe (what consciousness is). As a side point, I almost feel that if consciousness were not shared between and experienced by all other Metabunk users, it would be held up as an example of non-material, wishy washy, supernatural nonsense within an otherwise fully understood material universe.

    The final question to ask ourselves is what if there is a phenomenon behind some of the UAP sightings which is beyond the boundaries of current science, but nonetheless real?

    Single-handed attempts to get at this reality have already been made. Take Paul Hill, ex-NASA physicist (book: Unconventional Flying Objects a scientific analysis). He has studied the observable characteristics of UAP:
    • Performance (speed, maneuverability, acceleration)
    • Size
    • Illumination
    • Radiation
    • Particle ejection
    • Transmission of forces
    • Noises, or lack of (no sonic boom)
    And has come to the hypothesis that these UAP operate using a field of some kind.

    Given that they outperform conventional fighter jets, they would have obvious and worrying military uses.
     
  37. NoParty

    NoParty Senior Member

    Could you please point to the posts that lead you to this ("lot of discomfort," here) conclusion?

    (My sense was mostly: "Meh." New, for-profit company trying to imply juicy insider info...without offering anything, really...)
     
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  38. Z.W. Wolf

    Z.W. Wolf Active Member

    The National Institute for Discovery Science
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Institute_for_Discovery_Science




    International Space Sciences Organization - 1999
    http://www.nytimes.com/1999/01/17/business/private-sector-ceo-turns-ufo-hunter.html
    The web site
    http://orgs.tigweb.org/international-space-sciences-organization

    Apparently inactive.



    CUFOS - The Center for UFO Studies: A well financed organization founded in 1973 by the famous Dr. J. Allen Hynek. He was able to hire a full time investigator.

    The UFO Handbook is indeed the single best UFO book. I own a copy.

    CUFOS is barely active. Mostly just a collection of UFO stuff curated by one guy.



    NICAP - The National Investigations Committee On Aerial Phenomena
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Investigations_Committee_On_Aerial_Phenomena




    GSW - Ground Saucer Watch
    http://www.encyclopedia.com/science/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/ground-saucer-watch





    http://www.messynessychic.com/2014/...cer-conventions-at-an-underground-rock-house/
    Flying Saucer Convention, 1957 at Giant Rock Airport, Calif.

    These people believed, passionately, that a new age was dawning.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]




    What I'm trying to say here is that UFO's have been around a LONG time. People have poured their heart and soul into flying saucers, UFOs and Alien encounters of the third kind, grown old and died. Nothing ever happens.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
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  39. NoParty

    NoParty Senior Member

    Thanks for the list...it tells a story.

    And heck, when even Data says "Nothing ever happens," I gotta take that to heart!
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
  40. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I think your perception of this perhaps illustrates the general difference between UFO believers and skeptics. What is actually here is is basically eye-rolling and sighs about something that appears like obvious flim-flam. The actual reaction is, as noted above, "oh, this type of thing again, and people are going to fall for it".

    But you see this as "discomfort". It's a disproportionate interpretation, and it's also a little startling that your would make it, as there seems to be zero discomfort or apprehension here.


    And that's the level of "science" that we see here. Basically, UFO move weird so they must be using something new to science, and it would be great if we could get that technology.

    It's just a bunch of wishful thinking. Really the simplest explanation is that there are no new laws of physics, and the observations are explained by normal objects and the vagaries of human perception. Hill was a believer in UFOs, and he worked at NASA until 1970. But of course nothing happened.

    I'm not apprehensive, I'm simply observing a repetition of events. Nothing will come of it. In fact I'd put money on it - that in five years they will have produced nothing other than entertainment. $20?
     
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