skephu
Senior Member.
Well, the text on their home page about how their devices work is 100% pseudoscience.
Bio-Resonance
- Thread starter Andy Eyre
- Start date
Satyaprem
New Member
A historical review, for academic purposes
http://www.positivehealth.com/artic...ce-fact-or-fallacy-an-evidence-based-approach
continues here
http://www.positivehealth.com/artic...nce-part-ii-practical-approaches-to-treatment
These are quite long, sorry for breaking the no-click rule.
http://www.positivehealth.com/artic...ce-fact-or-fallacy-an-evidence-based-approach
continues here
http://www.positivehealth.com/artic...nce-part-ii-practical-approaches-to-treatment
These are quite long, sorry for breaking the no-click rule.
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Satyaprem
New Member
I'm afraid that people are in despair because 'conventional treatment' can do nothing for them. We are before a great change in the field of health treatment. The truth can and will be revealed and understood in the long run. As in so many other cases in the history of mankind.
Dan Wilson
Senior Member.
These pages are filled with bunk. Just to identify a few points:
These experiments were never successfully replicated, as far as I can tell. They even helped spark the idea of Orgone energy, which has never been shown to exist and is practically the same thing being suggested by proponents of bioresonance.In 1923 Aleksandr Gurwitsch reported that if the growing tips of two onions were placed close together they had a mutually positive effect on growth. If they were separated by glass, this effect did not occur, but if separated by quartz, which permits the passage of ultraviolet radiation, the effect returned.
I bolded the 30,000 because that is impossible. What you can see in a light microscope is limited by the diffraction properties of light. About 1,500X is the limit for light microscopes. You can magnify higher, but you need other techniques in order to improve the resolution and actually see anything, techniques that didn't exist in Rife's time. 30,000X is also unnecessary as you can see microbes with standard 1,000X or 600X objectives.Arguably the next most important development in the US was the claim by Royle Rife that his specially constructed high magnification (x 30,000) light microscopes could show how microbes are destroyed by specific frequencies (Rife called this the mortal oscillatory rate), and that this was the way to cure infectious diseases as well as cancer.
Actually it has been practically nonexistent. All of the papers referenced on these pages are either not peer-reviewed, do not support the idea of bioresonance, or are simply unimpressive studies such as one that contained a sample size of 20.In conclusion, it would appear that even though the supporting peer-reviewed, evidence-based science for bioresonance is slow in coming
It's a harsh reality that some diseases have no treatment. But despair can also describe people who might fall into anxiety-induced depression and be very afraid after a shocking diagnosis. In this state, people can search out alternative treatments for diseases that are entirely treatable or even start to mistrust medicine in general if they are convinced that things like bioresonance works. The articles you cited even admit that no experiments have yet been done to back up the claims they make. If there is no evidence that a treatment works and, instead, you have only ill-thought out hypotheses and a history of proponents convicted of fraud, you are unethically giving out advice to potentially seriously ill patients.
Auldy
Senior Member.
Just to build a bit on what @Dan Wilson has already mentioned from your positive health "historic review", @Satyaprem :
Is this actually a device or God?
I could go on and on with the holes in the positive health weblink, but I feel it important to point out the study linked above. Despite not telling us what the gastrointestinal complaints actually were, or if they were uniform across all 20 patients, the conclusion states:
The whole article is available here (in German).
But I have one question, just for you @Satyaprem, and if you could actually answer it, that would be swell.
I presume you have a deta-elis device yourself, as you have referenced its ability to cure your ails. What is stopping you (or anyone else who has one of these machines) from standing on your street corner and scanning and curing every passerby? You have in your hands a device that makes doctors and hospitals completely obsolete. You could uncover some hidden disease or cancer in the next person who walks by, cure them, and never need to ask for money right? If not you, then why are there not groups of good Samaritans walking the streets with these things giving out free tests? It costs nothing once you have the unit. Is it because the owners of these devices are too selfish? Is it that human kind is not that altruistic, even those who believe the device works? Or is it that the device doesn't work.
Apparently these devices are all over Russia in major clinics and homes, but somehow life expectancy still isn't that great (approx 124th in the world), and smoking alone kills over 300,000 a year. Let alone the rate of cancers and other preventable diseases.
I mean, if you have one of these machines, and stand by their claims, YOU can prove us all wrong right now by walking into your local hospitals intensive care unit and cure everyone! So why aren't you?
Where are these frequencies listed? Not in your manual, right? Not elsewhere on the internet, right? Say I have an infection of pathogenic E.coli, what frequency would I need to treat myself with? If they are empirically discovered, surely someone has a value for me?Today ideas of bioresonance have been translated into a wide variety of instruments claimed to identify and correct those resonances deficient in the patient’s body via applying specific empirically-discovered frequencies.
Wait... Not only do these devices cure all diseases and cancers, now it can stop addiction too? It also can cure allergies, and remove scar tissue? And of all the things it can do, the most spectacular is smoking addiction? Not curing a 3 year olds inoperable leukaemia? Not removing heavily metastasised cancer from an 99 year old man? Not removing someone addiction to crystal meth? Are they not spectacular enough?What kind of disorders are claimed to be treatable by bioresonance? Arguably the most spectacular is smoking addiction.
Is this actually a device or God?
I could go on and on with the holes in the positive health weblink, but I feel it important to point out the study linked above. Despite not telling us what the gastrointestinal complaints actually were, or if they were uniform across all 20 patients, the conclusion states:
Non-organic gastro intestinal complaints... A term I was stumped by. How can a gastric complaint be non-organic? Does that mean its caused by an obstruction, a foreign object being swallowed? If it was caused by a gut flora imbalance (thats something that the bio-resonance devices claim it should be able to fix) then it would be organic. Some other things that classify as non-organic gastro complaints include nervousness, depression and stress. Unsurprisingly, googling "nonorganic gastro complaints" only brings up references to the Neinhaus et al article and bioresonance. So what condition has the study actually 'studied'?...bioresonance therapy can markedly improve non-organic gastro-intestinal complaints.
The whole article is available here (in German).
But I have one question, just for you @Satyaprem, and if you could actually answer it, that would be swell.
I presume you have a deta-elis device yourself, as you have referenced its ability to cure your ails. What is stopping you (or anyone else who has one of these machines) from standing on your street corner and scanning and curing every passerby? You have in your hands a device that makes doctors and hospitals completely obsolete. You could uncover some hidden disease or cancer in the next person who walks by, cure them, and never need to ask for money right? If not you, then why are there not groups of good Samaritans walking the streets with these things giving out free tests? It costs nothing once you have the unit. Is it because the owners of these devices are too selfish? Is it that human kind is not that altruistic, even those who believe the device works? Or is it that the device doesn't work.
Apparently these devices are all over Russia in major clinics and homes, but somehow life expectancy still isn't that great (approx 124th in the world), and smoking alone kills over 300,000 a year. Let alone the rate of cancers and other preventable diseases.
I mean, if you have one of these machines, and stand by their claims, YOU can prove us all wrong right now by walking into your local hospitals intensive care unit and cure everyone! So why aren't you?
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tinkertailor
Senior Member.
A very close family friend was diagnosed with cancer four years ago. She had heard some misinformation from some sort of site--I forget which one, it was NaturalNews or one of its brethren--about the dangers of chemotherapy and the wonders of Rick Simpson Oil, an extremely strong extract of marijuana that was purported to cure everything from asthma to ulcers, but especially lauded for its ability to "cure" cancer. At this phase, her breast cancer was almost certainly curable with surgery and traditional treatment. Instead, she took to the Rick Simpson oil (which has been thoroughly debunked by minds much more capable than mine) and began self-dosing every day.
As was expected by her loved ones that were begging her to get it treated with Western medicine, it didn't work. She then took up crystal therapy, sound therapy, light therapy, Reiki, everything. We continued to beg her and she continued to refuse.
By the time she realized that these treatments were doing nothing but costing her vast amounts of money, the cancer had metastasized. She died a few months later, knowing full well that had she listened to those of us that loved her she would likely have been alive. I still get chills thinking about how difficult those last months must have been for her. The regret, death looming, thinking about where she could and should have been. I can't imagine. I really can't.
She was roped in to these beliefs by people peddling pseudoscience like you.
No, her situation doesn't match your fear exactly. I think it's worse. Conventional treatment could have saved her easily, but the romantic promises of health through alternate means snared her.
You say you're afraid of people feeling hopeless and in despair? We're afraid of more innocent people like her dying due to lack of treatment.
Think about the despair she felt lying in her bed as the cancer spread. Think about all the opportunities she had missed, the places she never got to see, and tell me about despair.
tinkertailor
Senior Member.
This
You'll have to excuse myself and others on the forum when we are skeptical and react to your claims, my friend.
and this
seem to go a touch beyond personal experience. These are presented as factual claims, something that Metabunk focuses entirely on, and from what I can gather there doesn't seem to be much evidence behind them beyond the manufacturer itself. These are HUGE claims too, claims that could revolutionize medicine if they are true! If false, however, they cause harm. Similar claims took the life of my friend. They harm countless others. I suffer from severe anxiety and I've been roped in to the pseudoscience before, wasting money on the newest crystal/homeopathic/transcendental 'cure' in an attempt at any relief. I know and love an addict who has tried similar devices in an attempt to quell his addiction but was crushed to find that the magical 'cure' didn't work. Desperate people are vulnerable people.
You'll have to excuse myself and others on the forum when we are skeptical and react to your claims, my friend.
Dan Wilson
Senior Member.
This is a skeptical thread meant for discussion of the available evidence on the validity of bioresonance. You have not offered solely personal experience and instead are making specific claims that you are unable to back up, as was just pointed out by tinkertailor. The bottom line is that you're advocating for a treatment that doesn't work and most posters here have a very big problem with that. Why don't you?
vooke
Active Member
I'm sorry for your loss. The problem with alternative medicine is that to maintain and expand their niche they rely on exaggeration of their efficacy. If they kept it 'real' then I'd consider them. Look at the range of ailments bio-resonance is said to manage, this is EVERYTHING out there, it is touted as the magical solution to all. Now that's my cue for skepticism
vooke
Active Member
May I suggest, and I mean it with all politeness that your posts betray any skepticism in you?
You have made huge claims without any attempt to back them up. Obviously you passionately believe in bioresonance seeing how it has wrought wonders for you. There are others who would share contrary experiences . How do we move forward? Who do we believe? Independent researchers. Get us these, or at least desist from claiming research supports your claim without any evidence
David Coulter
Senior Member.
The basic fallacy here is that "things" don't "vibrate" in the electromagnetic spectrum. Some chemical bonds do have vibrational nodes and this phenomenon is used to identify material through spectroscopy. One supporting bioresonance could argue that a pathogen is made up of chemical bonds and thus has a overall vibrational "fingerprint" that can be exploited. But that would assume that each pathogen contains exactly the same molecules ordered in exactly the same way.
Obviously EMR at high enough energy can kill things. You can cook chicken in a microwave and be sure that any Salmonella enterica will be dead. However, if it was a live chicken, it would be dead too. Highly focused radiation can destroy cancer cells, but you couldn't stand in the core of a nuclear reactor and expect the same life saving effect.
Obviously EMR at high enough energy can kill things. You can cook chicken in a microwave and be sure that any Salmonella enterica will be dead. However, if it was a live chicken, it would be dead too. Highly focused radiation can destroy cancer cells, but you couldn't stand in the core of a nuclear reactor and expect the same life saving effect.
nivek
New Member
A few years ago I experimented with a couple so-called resonance devices that claimed to kill viruses, pathogens, and whatnot...I spent the money on two different types like this expensive one linked below...After getting the flu once, also a sinus infection and the cold a couple times over about a 5 year period I used these devices diligently with no effective results...To me they are all gimmicks and a waste of money...
Zapper Digital Frequency Generator
A CURE FOR ALL DISEASES?
YES IT IS TRUE! Many diseases which are been claimed to be incurable are now are being healed through an amazing electro-therapy called a “DR HULDA CLARK DIGITAL ZAPPER”.
HOW DOES ZAPPER DIGITAL WORK?
The Zapper is an electronic device producing an adjustable frequency of 000.01Khz - 999.99Khz @ 5.0 volts DC which is the most successful bandwidth for eliminating bacteria and parasites through the wrist / foot strap terminals. The pulsing action of the positive terminal sends an electronic “wave” through the body, which eliminates all parasites, bacteria, amoeba and viruses that live within this 1,000,000hz band. This positive current detaches the negatively charged bacteria from their electro-magnetic adhesion in the body, so that the immune system can fight them. The frequencies can be programmed in according to the particular illness you are working with.
WHO INVENTED THE ZAPPER?
Dr Robert Beck was the original designer of the Zapper, which he called a “BLOOD CLEANSING DEVICE”. However through Dr Hulda Clark's remarkable achievements in curing thousands of people of cancer using Zapper Technology with natural therapies, she became famous for the Dr Hulda Clark ZAPPER.
WHY ARE MULTIPLE ZAPPING SESSIONS NECESSARY?
Parasites and Amoeba often are carriers of viruses, pathogens and bacteria. When a single zapping session destroys a parasite, parasitic bacteria can be released into the blood stream which can cause an immune system overload. Multiple Zapping sessions eliminate this possibility.
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