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I think greatness is being open to the world in a way that allows you to connect with other

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people and things, spaces, people in various places, and a willingness and desire to share

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something positive with them.

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And I think maybe, I guess I should clarify, I think that's more of a catalyst for greatness

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than greatness itself, because I don't know if it's possible to achieve that in its truest

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form.

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But I feel like having that openness and empathy for others is one of the best ways to at least

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move in that direction.

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And welcome back to another installment of Behind Greatness by Inspire.

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It's Luciano here, speaking as your host as usual.

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Before we get right into it, I would like to remind you, the listener, please share,

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like, review, comment, all the good stuff.

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This is what you have been doing and our listeners have been doing the last three years plus.

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And we have been ecstatic about what we've been doing or in how we've been growing and

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the people that we've been speaking with.

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So again, thank you to our regular listener.

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Thank you for your auditory companionship.

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Thank you for all your feedback and your sharing.

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And for the new listener, my future self shares that same gratitude.

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Last note on that, you can feel free to visit our website as well.

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We are a non-for-profit.

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We've been doing this 13 years.

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Yeah, 13 years is here.

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The podcast for close to four.

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So we are a non-for-profit, we're a registered charity as well.

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Go to our website and feel free to donate if you'd like.

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All the steps are there, clearly set up for you.

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And while you're there, check out our library of conversations.

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You won't be disappointed.

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You won't be disappointed.

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All right, here we go.

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So we have our next guest today.

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He is, you know, I didn't ask you from where in Montana.

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Are you in Butte?

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Yeah, that's right.

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Butte, Montana.

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I never asked you, I just took it for granted.

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OK, so that voice belongs to Michael Masters.

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Dr. Michael Masters is a professor of biological anthropology at Montana

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Technological University in Butte, Montana.

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His current research program centers on hominin evolutionary anatomy,

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human variation, archaeology, biomedicine,

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and investigating the UFO phenomenon.

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Regarding the latter, in 2019, he published

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identified flying objects, a multidisciplinary scientific approach

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to the UFO phenomenon, which examines the premise that UFOs and aliens

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may be our human descendants returning from the future

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to visit and study their own hominin evolutionary past.

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In 2022, he published the extra-tempestoral model,

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which analyzes well-documented cases of abduction

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and other contact modalities in the context of this time travel hypothesis

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and other theories to put forth to elucidate this complex

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and mysterious phenomenon.

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His most recent book, Revelation, the Future Human Past,

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again focuses on UFOs in the framework of this extra-tempestoral model,

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but in the format of a satirical time travel science fiction novel.

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Welcome to the show, Michael.

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Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate you having me on.

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Well, thank you.

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We've been excited to talk to you.

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We've already spoken a couple of times already anyway,

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just to get to know you a little bit and your slant on things.

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I wanted to also thank Dr. Bruce Solheim,

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who's also been on the podcast, who put us together.

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That was very, very nice of him, because what I expect here

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is that you're going to be adding to the conversation

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that we've been having on the program, an exploratory one.

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Our listeners already know, and I think you have a feeling as well,

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we just want to explore the what-ifs and the why-nots

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from people who have been doing that actively anyway.

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It's like, it doesn't make sense not to.

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Yeah, that's a good approach to take.

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Yeah, for sure.

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And I'll tell you, maybe to kick us off here, or maybe not, who knows.

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Our first episode was with Enrico Colontoni,

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and he's a friend of ours.

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He's been with us since the beginning,

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since the first day in June 2011, and he's an actor.

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He's a Hollywood actor from Toronto,

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and he and I have conversations quite often.

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And when we do, it's always about the what-if,

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and that is what he practices.

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So as an actor, he's always practicing the what-if.

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You know, what if I'm this character?

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What if I am not who I am in the next hour and a half,

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or two hours, or a day, or a week, or three months?

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Like he practices, actively practices make-belief,

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to explore, to see how he can stretch himself.

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Yeah, it's a great way of looking at it.

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I want to talk about stretching.

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So what does extra tempestro mean?

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Well, yeah, I guess speaking of stretching,

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it's just stretching the way in which we've used

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extraterrestrial to accommodate a similar idea of something

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that comes from elsewhere,

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but focusing on it instead in the context of else when.

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So I took the Latin root terre, which means earth.

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So extraterrestrial means outside of earth,

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and just pulled out the terre and plunked in the top,

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the word for time in the same language,

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just to make it outside of time.

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And there's other ways in which this has been articulated

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over the years.

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Extra temporals, chrononauts, UFO knots,

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was used by Michael D. Swartz in the 80s and 90s.

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So yeah, the idea has been around for a while.

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In the beginning of my second book,

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I try to trace back the earliest incarnations of it,

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just to try to provide context,

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but also to show people that it's not just me out there

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yelling into the wind,

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but there's a lot of other people

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who have been advocating for this for a very long time,

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going back to the 40s was the earliest I could find.

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And people like Herman Oberth,

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I believe considered the father of American rocketry,

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General Hoover, obviously with high-level clearances,

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also not just said that UFOs are time machines,

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but some of the occupants are even future humans.

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So when people like that are saying the same thing

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as authors, anthropologists, screenwriters, producers,

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podcasters, I think it's something to pay attention to.

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I kind of asked you when we last spoke,

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how do you go from anthropology, studying anthropology,

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to an interest in an active interest,

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a very active interest in the UFO question?

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And you said, their question should really be,

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it's how did I get into anthropology from the UFO question?

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Yeah, that's correct.

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Yeah, so I described the situation that happened

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at the beginning of my first two books.

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And it's very much in line,

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if your listeners wanna circle back

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and listen to your conversation with Eric Wargo

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that just came out recently,

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he's obviously the one that wrote the book on this,

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but I consider it an instance of precognition.

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I've had dream precognition my entire life,

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but in this particular moment

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when I was about eight or nine years old,

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I looked up and saw Whitley Streber's book,

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Communion on the Living Room Shell, facing out,

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and had this sort of flash of light.

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And then this image that popped in my head

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that came along with some basic questions

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about whether or not this archetypal gray alien

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could simply be us.

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I noticed even at that primordial age

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that if you look at evolution

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and a very simple nine year old brain context

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with early hominins, modern humans,

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and then this gray alien from Whitley's book cover,

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there's a very clear connection there,

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what I eventually realized were called synapomorphies

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or homologies, homologous characteristics

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with regard to our bilateral symmetry,

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nose, mouth being the same places,

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ears in the same places,

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and all of those that form the same functions.

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So really just it made me ask this question

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is could they be us?

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And obviously, you have to be wary

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of confirmation bias, selection bias,

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and we're taught to do that with great scrutiny

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in going through the academic process and any field.

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So being wary of that,

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I decided to pursue physics and astronomy

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to see if I could study these craft

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in the context of whether they could be time machines.

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And then about late into my sophomore year,

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I decided to switch into biological anthropology

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and investigate this more in the context

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of human evolution, hominin evolution

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over long periods, six to eight million years

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since we became upright walking, bipedal,

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which is the trait that defines the hominin lineage.

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It'd be hard up to find any case

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that didn't describe these entities

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as bipedal walking humanoid forms

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in addition to some others.

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So just looking at all of these suite of characteristics

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over time, and I got more into the weeds

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with cranial facial anatomy.

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One of my main focuses in graduate school

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was hominin evolutionary anatomy

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and studying the ways in which the eyes,

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the eye orbits interact with the neurocranium above

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and the face below,

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because our faces have been reduced and retracted

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as our neurocranium has moved out over top of our eyes

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and taken over the space where you can find

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what's called a super orbital torus

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and most other hominoid and early hominin species,

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a brow ridge, which is really exacerbated

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in the Neanderthals and Homo heidelbergensis

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and Homo gloduensis.

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So just looking at the suite of characteristics

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and how they changed over time between then and now

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and simply projecting those forward

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and there's really no reason not to

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because the same trends have dominated

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the last six to eight million years of hominin evolution.

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Then if those trends continue into the future,

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we're likely to possess the characteristics

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that are so commonly described in cases of close contact

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with these beans.

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You've been, just a quick side conversation maybe

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just to provide a little bit more context, I think.

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You're the first person that we've ever heard

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talk about these things, talk about the evolution,

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the evolution of past human being

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up until the very far future and then back.

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What's been your experience as an anthropologist

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and studying archeology in your field?

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What's been your experience being on the site,

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on the ground, seeing, witnessing and studying

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what you've actually found, physically found?

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Yeah, it's been pretty amazing, I feel fortunate.

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I'm not technically an archeologist,

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I'm a paleoanthropologist, which means I get to work

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on archeological digs in various capacities

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and I jocularly mentioned how we would group ourselves

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as boners and stoners and we would even have soccer matches

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where we'd square off boners V stoners

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and Southern France where I worked

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at this 150,000 year Neanderthal site.

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And we had some pretty epic matches actually,

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it was pretty close between the two groups.

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But as a boner, we studied the evolutionary anatomy

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and also comparative anatomy.

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So we don't just look at us in particular,

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but also work with paleoecologists, paleontologists

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to try to map out what the environment was like

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at the time that our ancestors lived in these places

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because they do change dramatically

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on relatively short periods of time,

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at least geologically speaking.

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And then the stoners focused more on the lithic tools,

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which we didn't have until about 3 million years ago.

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But once we developed those, we can see this evolution

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that happens in the morphological characteristics

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of the tools as well.

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So yeah, working at archeological sites

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has been a lot of fun.

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I worked at a 3.5 million year old

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Australopithecus africanus site,

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a place called Macha Ponscott for two summers.

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And then the Neanderthal site I mentioned.

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That was in the, it was in the Veld, as they say,

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the bush of Northern, Northeast South Africa

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and the Limpopo region near a tiny little town

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called Mokopane, which was named after a guy

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who led a revolution against the Dutch invaders

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and wasn't really successful.

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That's a whole nother conversation,

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but he did manage to escape and they named the town after him

257
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,060
because they renamed a lot of the towns

258
00:13:40,060 --> 00:13:44,820
from the Africans, Netherlands invaders

259
00:13:44,820 --> 00:13:46,620
to the people that led revolutions

260
00:13:46,620 --> 00:13:49,180
and the process of renaming a lot of things.

261
00:13:50,620 --> 00:13:53,280
So yeah, working at these sites has been fun

262
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:57,420
because I get to learn a lot about the stone tools too.

263
00:13:58,540 --> 00:14:00,780
And because each particular place

264
00:14:00,780 --> 00:14:04,580
has a very separate set of tools made by different people

265
00:14:04,580 --> 00:14:08,180
at different times, I've led some archeological digs here

266
00:14:08,180 --> 00:14:09,460
in Southwest Montana.

267
00:14:09,460 --> 00:14:11,680
And we find obviously completely different things

268
00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:14,020
in what you find at an Neanderthal site.

269
00:14:14,940 --> 00:14:18,220
So yeah, it's been really cool to get to experience

270
00:14:18,220 --> 00:14:21,100
the archeology side of things when,

271
00:14:21,100 --> 00:14:23,500
what we mostly focus on is just the bones,

272
00:14:23,500 --> 00:14:25,580
what comes out, we study them.

273
00:14:25,580 --> 00:14:29,160
But to be able to be in the process of discovery

274
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,980
and to hold in your hand a stone tool that was made

275
00:14:32,980 --> 00:14:36,580
120,000 years ago and hasn't seen the light of day sense

276
00:14:36,580 --> 00:14:37,420
is pretty cool.

277
00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:38,780
And still working with the skulls too.

278
00:14:38,780 --> 00:14:41,580
I got to hold what's known as Ms. Plez.

279
00:14:41,580 --> 00:14:44,800
I studied her as part of my dissertation research.

280
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,700
It's a three and a half million year old

281
00:14:47,700 --> 00:14:51,400
Australopithecus africanus skull that's so well preserved

282
00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,580
that you can actually lift off the calvarium

283
00:14:53,580 --> 00:14:55,820
at the top of the skull and look down in

284
00:14:55,820 --> 00:14:58,020
on the basic cranium where the brain sat

285
00:14:58,020 --> 00:14:59,340
all of those years ago.

286
00:14:59,340 --> 00:15:02,460
And just there's another one there

287
00:15:02,460 --> 00:15:05,620
where they matched it up with a leopard's front

288
00:15:05,620 --> 00:15:06,860
and back canines.

289
00:15:06,860 --> 00:15:09,460
So what they would do, we were prey animals back then.

290
00:15:09,460 --> 00:15:10,940
We're only about three and a half,

291
00:15:10,940 --> 00:15:12,380
four feet tall at the most.

292
00:15:12,380 --> 00:15:15,740
And they put their front canines into our eye orbits

293
00:15:15,740 --> 00:15:19,140
and then sink their lower mandibular canines

294
00:15:19,140 --> 00:15:21,300
into the back of our skull and the occipital lobe

295
00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:23,820
and then drag us up into trees and snack on us.

296
00:15:23,820 --> 00:15:25,940
And then sometimes drop us down into places

297
00:15:25,940 --> 00:15:29,460
that became caves, which are really well preserved fossils

298
00:15:29,460 --> 00:15:31,340
from that same area of South Africa.

299
00:15:31,340 --> 00:15:33,820
So just being able to see all of that

300
00:15:33,820 --> 00:15:37,660
in the fossil remains is amazing.

301
00:15:37,660 --> 00:15:40,460
You remind me just a quick side note here.

302
00:15:40,460 --> 00:15:45,460
I had a work call with a potential client in Australia

303
00:15:46,300 --> 00:15:51,300
and we were comparing our climates and our wildlife.

304
00:15:51,380 --> 00:15:53,980
And I've never been to Australia.

305
00:15:53,980 --> 00:15:56,180
I'm obviously here from Canada, as you know.

306
00:15:57,180 --> 00:16:01,980
So I told him about a story that I heard from my cousin

307
00:16:01,980 --> 00:16:04,060
who was visiting at the time, just very recently.

308
00:16:04,060 --> 00:16:06,260
And there was a brown snake found

309
00:16:06,260 --> 00:16:09,340
in an office building downtown Melbourne

310
00:16:09,340 --> 00:16:10,900
or downtown Sydney.

311
00:16:10,900 --> 00:16:12,260
And so they had to evacuate the building.

312
00:16:12,260 --> 00:16:13,380
Then we looked up a brown snake

313
00:16:13,380 --> 00:16:15,180
and there's things that one of the most venomous stakes

314
00:16:15,180 --> 00:16:16,020
on the planet.

315
00:16:17,020 --> 00:16:18,260
And so I told him about this.

316
00:16:18,260 --> 00:16:19,980
And so he said to me, he goes,

317
00:16:21,140 --> 00:16:24,140
yeah, the difference between Canada and Australia

318
00:16:24,140 --> 00:16:29,140
is that in Canada, human beings are the top predator

319
00:16:29,220 --> 00:16:30,660
in Australia.

320
00:16:30,660 --> 00:16:32,060
That's not the case.

321
00:16:33,060 --> 00:16:37,380
Yeah, same way I was working in South Africa.

322
00:16:37,380 --> 00:16:42,380
We had a leopard den only about maybe a quarter mile away

323
00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:44,940
down the main trail that we hiked to get up

324
00:16:44,940 --> 00:16:47,900
into the old growth forest and a pretty sweet water slide

325
00:16:47,900 --> 00:16:49,780
that formed naturally through these rocks

326
00:16:49,780 --> 00:16:52,820
that you could slide down into a big pool

327
00:16:52,820 --> 00:16:55,940
that we eventually realized a 10 foot python lived in.

328
00:16:55,940 --> 00:16:58,940
But even outside of the python and the leopard,

329
00:16:58,940 --> 00:17:01,420
the neighborhood leopard, we had puff adders

330
00:17:01,420 --> 00:17:03,380
and black mambas, which can kill you

331
00:17:03,380 --> 00:17:04,460
in less than two minutes.

332
00:17:04,460 --> 00:17:06,620
So yeah, you definitely have to be aware

333
00:17:06,620 --> 00:17:07,780
of your surroundings.

334
00:17:07,780 --> 00:17:09,780
And it's not just wild animals.

335
00:17:09,780 --> 00:17:12,820
Like we have to worry about malaria and various parasites

336
00:17:12,820 --> 00:17:14,660
and a lot of violence that exists

337
00:17:14,660 --> 00:17:18,940
and regions with tribal warfare where we have to work.

338
00:17:18,940 --> 00:17:22,300
So it's kind of a dangerous field anthropology

339
00:17:22,420 --> 00:17:23,740
where it can be at times.

340
00:17:23,740 --> 00:17:28,020
It's funny that you mentioned the python or the snake

341
00:17:28,020 --> 00:17:31,460
and the leopard, because in a previous conversation,

342
00:17:31,460 --> 00:17:34,120
the last conversation you and I had,

343
00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:35,860
this is a little bit out of context

344
00:17:35,860 --> 00:17:40,220
or you gave me two animals and you told me

345
00:17:40,220 --> 00:17:41,900
that the snake is a masculine energy

346
00:17:41,900 --> 00:17:44,220
and the feline is the feminine energy.

347
00:17:44,220 --> 00:17:47,220
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's interesting.

348
00:17:47,220 --> 00:17:49,500
I mean, you can see that with a lot of animal species.

349
00:17:49,500 --> 00:17:51,660
I think we were also talking about the difference

350
00:17:51,700 --> 00:17:56,300
between the bonobos and the common chimpanzee,

351
00:17:56,300 --> 00:17:59,940
pan troglodyte, the common chimp that is run

352
00:17:59,940 --> 00:18:03,460
with a patriarchal society.

353
00:18:03,460 --> 00:18:06,180
And they're the only other animal species

354
00:18:06,180 --> 00:18:09,060
that's been observed going to war with each other.

355
00:18:09,060 --> 00:18:12,980
Whereas you have the pan paniscus, the bonobo chimpanzee

356
00:18:12,980 --> 00:18:14,780
that have alpha females.

357
00:18:14,780 --> 00:18:19,320
And they're very much make love, not war type of species.

358
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,960
They're constantly engaging in sex play

359
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,240
and just rarely have fights.

360
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,880
It's funny that if you look across the animal kingdom,

361
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,960
you can see a lot of things about us reflected

362
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,220
in other species, even closely related ones,

363
00:18:33,220 --> 00:18:36,000
like our closest living relative, the chimp.

364
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,240
So I've seen enough, actually, I shouldn't say enough

365
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:40,240
because it's never enough.

366
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:41,200
I love animal shows.

367
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,160
So I've seen enough of those battles happening

368
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,200
in forests and jungles.

369
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,280
And it's fascinating to me how they communicate.

370
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,600
We're talking about the bonobos and chimps for that matter.

371
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:54,360
But back to feed lines, actually,

372
00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:57,680
because when we spoke, we had a video call

373
00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,400
and one of your cats passed by

374
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,600
and you just mentioned your cat.

375
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,280
And you said that they have a unique personality

376
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,160
and they are lucid in a way that other animals aren't.

377
00:19:09,340 --> 00:19:10,840
So I want to believe you.

378
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,920
I didn't grow up with cats and I never had a cat as a pet.

379
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:15,500
Why do you say that?

380
00:19:15,500 --> 00:19:20,040
Well, part of it's anecdotal from just personal observation.

381
00:19:21,060 --> 00:19:23,260
I've had dogs and cats my entire life.

382
00:19:23,260 --> 00:19:26,620
Also grew up on a horse farm and a pig farm

383
00:19:26,620 --> 00:19:28,800
and a cattle farm.

384
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,740
So I've gotten to know animals in various capacities.

385
00:19:31,740 --> 00:19:32,580
You're like old man dogs.

386
00:19:32,580 --> 00:19:33,420
And wild animals.

387
00:19:33,420 --> 00:19:37,120
Like there's, yeah, I know, I'm a farm boy, I guess.

388
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:39,980
But there's a group of mule deer and an elk

389
00:19:39,980 --> 00:19:42,420
that I've befriended out here where I live now too.

390
00:19:42,420 --> 00:19:47,420
And they just, yeah, they know what energy to trust,

391
00:19:48,420 --> 00:19:50,620
I think better than a lot of people do.

392
00:19:50,620 --> 00:19:55,620
And dogs also seemingly have precognitive abilities too.

393
00:19:56,020 --> 00:19:58,180
They seem to know things right before they happen.

394
00:19:58,180 --> 00:20:01,660
And I can't back that up with any studies that I've done,

395
00:20:01,660 --> 00:20:03,080
but I did read this book.

396
00:20:04,740 --> 00:20:08,300
I think it's called The Brain is a Time Machine.

397
00:20:08,300 --> 00:20:10,180
I can never remember the guy's name,

398
00:20:10,180 --> 00:20:13,500
Bodhis Wana or Bodhis Sama.

399
00:20:13,500 --> 00:20:14,660
I think that's it.

400
00:20:14,660 --> 00:20:16,260
Or something like that if you Googled it,

401
00:20:16,260 --> 00:20:18,060
if your listeners Googled it and they were interested.

402
00:20:18,060 --> 00:20:20,820
But it talks about the way that our brains work

403
00:20:20,820 --> 00:20:22,700
in response to the environment

404
00:20:22,700 --> 00:20:26,620
and how a lot of times we have insights into things

405
00:20:26,620 --> 00:20:29,760
before they happen just as simply a result of evolving

406
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:31,980
to have to interact with very fast stimuli

407
00:20:31,980 --> 00:20:36,380
that outpaces our brain's ability to typically deal with it.

408
00:20:36,380 --> 00:20:38,860
And according to this term, maybe I didn't,

409
00:20:38,860 --> 00:20:41,400
but as far as I can tell I did

410
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,460
about seven or eight years ago called bio-relativity,

411
00:20:44,460 --> 00:20:47,100
where it seems a lot of animals probably,

412
00:20:47,100 --> 00:20:50,140
even though we see barn swallows flying incredibly fast

413
00:20:50,140 --> 00:20:52,300
and flies escaping fly swatters

414
00:20:52,300 --> 00:20:54,460
at a speed that seems mind blowing to us,

415
00:20:54,460 --> 00:20:57,100
they likely see the world in the same way that we do.

416
00:20:57,100 --> 00:20:59,100
It's very likely that they evolved

417
00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:00,820
to still have the same perception

418
00:21:00,820 --> 00:21:04,100
and just we seem very slowed down to them.

419
00:21:04,100 --> 00:21:06,740
I talk about that and a couple of things have published

420
00:21:06,980 --> 00:21:08,900
in one of my books as well,

421
00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:11,420
because it, and it would be really easy to test.

422
00:21:11,420 --> 00:21:13,140
I haven't been able to find any studies,

423
00:21:13,140 --> 00:21:16,340
but you could look at things like metabolic rate,

424
00:21:16,340 --> 00:21:19,660
heart rate, the eye's ability to perceive things,

425
00:21:19,660 --> 00:21:22,740
EEGs, if you can stick an EEG on a barn swallow,

426
00:21:22,740 --> 00:21:25,300
I don't know, but it seems like there'd be a lot of ways

427
00:21:25,300 --> 00:21:28,100
to test sort of the perceived flow of time

428
00:21:28,100 --> 00:21:29,620
among a lot of different animals,

429
00:21:29,620 --> 00:21:31,700
or at least ones that were close enough to us

430
00:21:31,700 --> 00:21:33,500
that we could use some of these technologies.

431
00:21:33,500 --> 00:21:35,880
And I think that's maybe one of the limiting factors

432
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,560
is that we just don't yet have the technology to do this

433
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:43,560
across a broad range of non mammalian animal species.

434
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:47,920
But it'd be cool to look at that,

435
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:49,800
because I think it would really give us some insights,

436
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,600
not just into temporal perception,

437
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:56,480
but possibly even pre-perception, precognition,

438
00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:00,280
the ability to respond to stimulus before it even happens.

439
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,020
And I do think, and maybe it's an aspect of the fact

440
00:22:03,020 --> 00:22:05,000
that we've domesticated dogs and cats

441
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,320
to such an extent that they've evolved more recently

442
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,220
with pro-social behaviors in the same way that we have.

443
00:22:11,220 --> 00:22:14,900
So we've maybe instilled some extra abilities onto them

444
00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:17,400
that you might not see in their wild counterparts.

445
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:18,680
Well, that's very interesting.

446
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,080
I didn't think of that.

447
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,980
We've overlaid something in our own domestic training

448
00:22:22,980 --> 00:22:24,640
for them to suit our needs.

449
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,480
We've overlaid some skillset that we've-

450
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,840
Yeah, it might not be of any use to them in the wild,

451
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,480
but in dealing with humans,

452
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,780
which is the main way in which they get food,

453
00:22:35,420 --> 00:22:36,900
especially the little purse dogs that couldn't go out

454
00:22:36,900 --> 00:22:38,540
and hunt an elk by itself.

455
00:22:39,460 --> 00:22:41,420
Yeah, we may have given them some abilities

456
00:22:41,420 --> 00:22:43,420
that they might not have had otherwise.

457
00:22:43,420 --> 00:22:46,380
I'm fascinated by the feline,

458
00:22:46,380 --> 00:22:48,220
not to keep pushing us,

459
00:22:48,220 --> 00:22:49,260
because I don't want to push it,

460
00:22:49,260 --> 00:22:51,400
but I am very fascinated by it,

461
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,460
because quite simply,

462
00:22:53,460 --> 00:22:57,740
the dreams that I have about feline being so lions,

463
00:22:57,740 --> 00:23:00,700
I mean, lions, leopards, jaguars, panthers,

464
00:23:00,700 --> 00:23:05,900
are very similar to what others have dreamt about

465
00:23:05,900 --> 00:23:08,020
who have shared these dreams with me.

466
00:23:08,020 --> 00:23:09,140
There's always something,

467
00:23:09,140 --> 00:23:10,940
there's like an extra perception

468
00:23:10,940 --> 00:23:13,380
involved in the dream with a feline.

469
00:23:13,380 --> 00:23:15,900
It's always just very, very consistent.

470
00:23:17,340 --> 00:23:19,180
And we've had some people on the podcast

471
00:23:19,180 --> 00:23:20,860
share some of their dreams on felines,

472
00:23:20,860 --> 00:23:22,660
but there's something there.

473
00:23:22,660 --> 00:23:24,820
There is something there about the feline.

474
00:23:25,900 --> 00:23:26,900
Yeah, that's interesting.

475
00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:30,580
It's probably at least a part of why

476
00:23:30,620 --> 00:23:32,580
the Egyptians were so obsessed with them

477
00:23:32,580 --> 00:23:35,820
as they realized maybe a divine spirit

478
00:23:35,820 --> 00:23:39,020
that exists in cats that you don't find elsewhere.

479
00:23:39,020 --> 00:23:41,940
They are pretty amazing creatures, I'll admit that.

480
00:23:41,940 --> 00:23:43,300
I've always been a dog person,

481
00:23:43,300 --> 00:23:45,900
but I'm kind of coming around to the other side recently.

482
00:23:45,900 --> 00:23:47,540
I'm coming around.

483
00:23:47,540 --> 00:23:50,020
Well, I'm less a dog person more a wolf person.

484
00:23:50,020 --> 00:23:52,220
I love wolves,

485
00:23:52,220 --> 00:23:56,700
and how wolves hunt, communicate, live.

486
00:23:56,700 --> 00:23:57,540
Yeah.

487
00:23:57,540 --> 00:23:58,360
And how intelligent they are.

488
00:23:58,360 --> 00:23:59,200
How wise they are.

489
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:00,040
They're amazing.

490
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,800
I listened to a few other podcasts,

491
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:04,960
a few other interviews that you've given.

492
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:06,960
And you've given, by your admission,

493
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:08,440
you've given hundreds of interviews,

494
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,400
I think a year at some point.

495
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,000
Hundreds per year.

496
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,440
Yeah, on average, probably close.

497
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:15,280
Why don't we go to this?

498
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,280
Because you've also admitted to me that,

499
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:19,760
and I'm sure I'm not the only person

500
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,080
you've admitted it to,

501
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,360
you were sick and tired of doing this

502
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:25,280
of all these interviews.

503
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,320
And then you kind of broke down,

504
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:33,200
but you had an experience that encouraged you

505
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,000
or urged you to not give up.

506
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,280
You wanna share that?

507
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,520
Yeah, a very brief version, I guess,

508
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,400
because it's a really long story.

509
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,360
Maybe you could put a link to a couple resources

510
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:49,480
where I'd tell the story in more detail

511
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,080
in the show notes or something.

512
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,280
But yeah, no, it wasn't just the pod interviews.

513
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,480
I was traveling a lot for conferences

514
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,400
and TV shoots, documentary shoots.

515
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,360
And it was just, it was exhausting

516
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:06,160
because I have a full-time job as a professor

517
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,720
with all of the obligations, service, research, teaching.

518
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,440
So yeah, I was just really burnt out,

519
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:18,440
decided I was going to quit this particular area of research

520
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,080
to focus on some other things.

521
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,120
Just had that thought in my head.

522
00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:28,920
And then I was taken by an individual at a conference

523
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,080
about two weeks after that, probably,

524
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,840
up into an empty room at the conference hotel

525
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:37,880
who brought another person in,

526
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,800
a man who, the two knew each other,

527
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,960
but they'd never met before, face to face.

528
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,080
But he comes into the room

529
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:51,040
and then pulls a chair up really, really close to me.

530
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,960
So his face is probably like 10 inches from mine.

531
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,960
And looks at me in the eyes and calmed me down at first

532
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:00,960
because I was kind of pissed

533
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,960
about how close he was sitting.

534
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:07,560
But then these others, as I've come to know them,

535
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,600
said through him,

536
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,880
we know you've been thinking about quitting lately

537
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,000
and we'd really prefer you didn't do that.

538
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,880
And it blew my mind wide open

539
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:18,720
because I hadn't told anybody that.

540
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,120
It was just a thought in my head

541
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:21,920
I'd had about two weeks before.

542
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,920
And yeah, from that point on,

543
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,560
there was a lot of other things that took place.

544
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,200
And eventually, as I've said before

545
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:35,600
in a couple of different places,

546
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,400
eventually and slowly to the point

547
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,480
where I hardly even noticed it,

548
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,800
the entire conversation turned completely telepathic.

549
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,080
So we weren't using our voices anymore,

550
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,520
but I could still hear their voices,

551
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,320
this woman and this man.

552
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,080
And it wasn't them talking to me.

553
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,400
They were being used as like a vessel of sorts.

554
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:56,920
What I've come to understand

555
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,960
is a form of a trance mediumship.

556
00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:01,480
But they were brought to this place.

557
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,320
They brought me up to this place

558
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,200
and then had an intervention of sorts.

559
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:07,440
They politely asked me

560
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,360
if I would continue doing this for a while.

561
00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:11,240
They eventually told me

562
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,320
they wanted to put three bits of information in my brain

563
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,200
that would be important for some future events.

564
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,040
Very politely asked me if I consented to that,

565
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:22,760
explained exactly how it would happen.

566
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,780
And then it happened exactly how they said it would.

567
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,040
Just kind of blacked my eyes out

568
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,440
and then force fed all of this information

569
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,520
in the form of sort of colorful light into my brain.

570
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,440
And also told me I wouldn't have access to it.

571
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,760
Asked me if that was okay as well.

572
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,200
And I agreed to that.

573
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,500
And that's been the case.

574
00:27:45,500 --> 00:27:47,020
I have no idea what it is.

575
00:27:47,060 --> 00:27:48,540
I can't access it.

576
00:27:48,540 --> 00:27:50,180
Don't really want to access it

577
00:27:50,180 --> 00:27:52,180
because I don't want to know the future.

578
00:27:53,260 --> 00:27:54,500
Especially because I get the sense

579
00:27:54,500 --> 00:27:56,580
that there's something coming.

580
00:27:56,580 --> 00:27:59,260
A lot of people who have experienced a similar this.

581
00:27:59,260 --> 00:28:01,620
And since I've started talking about this recently,

582
00:28:01,620 --> 00:28:04,180
so many people have reached out to me

583
00:28:04,180 --> 00:28:06,720
and described very, very similar things

584
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,780
that have happened to them.

585
00:28:08,780 --> 00:28:11,160
And a lot of them have that same sense too,

586
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,580
that it's in preparation for something.

587
00:28:13,580 --> 00:28:16,520
I don't claim to have any prophetic knowledge.

588
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:17,920
In fact, I'm telling the opposite.

589
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,240
I have no idea what it is they put in my brain.

590
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,380
But I do get the sense that there's some reason,

591
00:28:24,380 --> 00:28:26,840
which is largely why there was an intervention

592
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,000
in the first place perhaps.

593
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,040
Why did you consent to that information downloaded

594
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:33,920
if you don't want to access it?

595
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:35,120
What was it about it?

596
00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:39,000
I realized the import and the fact that they organized

597
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:44,000
that entire thing and did so in a way

598
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,000
that made me sit up and pay attention.

599
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,120
Because they knew a thought in my head.

600
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,300
And then not long after that,

601
00:28:50,300 --> 00:28:55,300
they referenced what I thought was just a crazy conversation

602
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,520
happening with my internal monologue.

603
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,520
They referenced it that happened probably

604
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,160
five or six months before.

605
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,240
And again, just thought to thought,

606
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:12,160
telepathic communication that I'd never experienced before.

607
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,360
But when they showed me that they knew all of my thoughts

608
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,560
and specific moments where we had communicated

609
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,640
prior to this event that happened in Phoenix, Arizona,

610
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,880
and also indicated that they have been a part,

611
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:32,880
or rather I have somehow been a part of their,

612
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,680
whatever it is that's happening here,

613
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,440
whatever this connection is,

614
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,680
went through a lot of really big ups and downs

615
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,920
trying to figure out what is the relationship

616
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,160
between this ethereal spirit realm

617
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:47,480
where I'm able to communicate

618
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:52,220
with this non-local consciousness in this physical reality?

619
00:29:52,220 --> 00:29:54,160
How does this relate to UFOs?

620
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,280
How does it relate to future humans if it does at all?

621
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:58,880
So there's just a lot of questions

622
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:00,380
that I'm still trying to figure out.

623
00:30:00,380 --> 00:30:01,840
I don't claim to have any answers,

624
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,200
but the more we talk about these things,

625
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,760
and it hasn't been easy to talk about these things

626
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,220
because it's so far outside of my,

627
00:30:09,220 --> 00:30:10,780
and I'm guessing most people's,

628
00:30:10,780 --> 00:30:12,940
sense of conventional reality,

629
00:30:12,940 --> 00:30:14,820
but the more we have these conversations

630
00:30:14,820 --> 00:30:15,940
and talk about these things,

631
00:30:15,940 --> 00:30:18,260
I think the more we can potentially start to get

632
00:30:18,260 --> 00:30:19,940
some level of understanding

633
00:30:19,940 --> 00:30:22,300
about what that connection might be.

634
00:30:22,300 --> 00:30:24,780
Well, you're so very direct in the language that you use.

635
00:30:24,780 --> 00:30:26,260
I mean, you don't pull punches

636
00:30:26,260 --> 00:30:28,840
and you're very matter of fact in your delivery.

637
00:30:30,180 --> 00:30:35,180
And so you make what you sound so much more credible

638
00:30:35,380 --> 00:30:39,020
as just like a piece of discussion.

639
00:30:39,020 --> 00:30:41,860
And this is not, I'm none of that.

640
00:30:41,860 --> 00:30:43,300
Sorry, go ahead.

641
00:30:43,300 --> 00:30:47,100
Speaking of that, they did that on purpose too,

642
00:30:47,100 --> 00:30:51,500
because they involved other people in this experience.

643
00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:54,260
It started out with just this man and this woman

644
00:30:54,260 --> 00:30:56,060
who are being used as the conduit

645
00:30:56,060 --> 00:30:58,200
for this event to take place.

646
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,960
But slowly, we were in a public room

647
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,980
where this pre-party had started out earlier

648
00:31:03,980 --> 00:31:06,640
in this fourth floor room with a balcony

649
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,220
in this conference hotel,

650
00:31:08,220 --> 00:31:10,260
and people were coming up the entire time.

651
00:31:10,260 --> 00:31:12,860
Three people even came out on the balcony

652
00:31:12,860 --> 00:31:16,100
and they, these others, had them go back in.

653
00:31:16,100 --> 00:31:18,580
And even one guy I talked to who was in there,

654
00:31:18,580 --> 00:31:19,940
a lot of them were worried about me

655
00:31:19,940 --> 00:31:23,500
because they saw this man right in front of my face.

656
00:31:23,500 --> 00:31:24,660
My eyes were wide open.

657
00:31:24,660 --> 00:31:26,260
I couldn't even move my head.

658
00:31:26,260 --> 00:31:29,820
They were witnessing all of these things and were worried.

659
00:31:29,820 --> 00:31:32,500
Like, what the hell's going on with Dr. Masters out there?

660
00:31:32,500 --> 00:31:35,620
He hasn't moved in arguably 30 to 40 minutes.

661
00:31:35,620 --> 00:31:38,140
I lost time for a while when they blacked me out.

662
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:39,800
So I don't know exactly how long.

663
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,540
But when they did bring me back,

664
00:31:41,540 --> 00:31:43,260
that room was full of people.

665
00:31:43,260 --> 00:31:45,420
So there were a lot of people that witnessed this

666
00:31:45,420 --> 00:31:47,100
as far as credibility goes.

667
00:31:47,100 --> 00:31:49,260
Like, you know, it's one thing for me to say,

668
00:31:49,260 --> 00:31:51,580
I felt like I had a conversation with them

669
00:31:51,580 --> 00:31:52,900
earlier in the year.

670
00:31:52,900 --> 00:31:55,260
It was just me and my dog out there.

671
00:31:55,260 --> 00:31:56,520
But when a lot of people,

672
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,780
two people were very intimately associated with this event,

673
00:31:59,780 --> 00:32:04,700
and then probably 15 to 20 people on the inside watching it.

674
00:32:04,700 --> 00:32:07,060
And one woman, I have no idea who it was,

675
00:32:07,060 --> 00:32:09,820
I couldn't lift my head because it felt like a bowling ball.

676
00:32:09,820 --> 00:32:11,740
But one woman put her hand on my arm and said,

677
00:32:11,740 --> 00:32:13,300
are you okay?

678
00:32:13,300 --> 00:32:15,460
Because they were concerned, you know?

679
00:32:15,460 --> 00:32:18,020
So it's something that involved a lot of witnesses.

680
00:32:18,020 --> 00:32:20,180
I got the sense they didn't really like that.

681
00:32:20,180 --> 00:32:22,660
They were trying to kind of hurry along a little bit more

682
00:32:22,660 --> 00:32:25,780
once people started showing up in this room.

683
00:32:25,780 --> 00:32:27,840
But yeah, it's definitely,

684
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,860
it's something I talk about matter of factly

685
00:32:29,860 --> 00:32:31,860
because it's a factual experience.

686
00:32:31,860 --> 00:32:35,360
And I don't really have the ability to fully comprehend it

687
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,360
or even moderately comprehend it right now.

688
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,520
So all I can do is say what happened,

689
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:41,800
and then people can take that

690
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,680
and make their own interpretation of the events

691
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:45,920
as they unfolded.

692
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,800
Are you still in contact with those two people?

693
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:49,840
Are they colleagues of yours?

694
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:51,040
I never asked you.

695
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:52,280
No, they were just,

696
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,680
the woman who was standing to my left,

697
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:58,840
who was also involved telepathically,

698
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,980
all three of us were communicating in this way.

699
00:33:02,980 --> 00:33:07,100
But again, it wasn't us through these two people.

700
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,380
I was communicating with these others.

701
00:33:11,460 --> 00:33:14,980
But the woman I did know from the same conference

702
00:33:14,980 --> 00:33:16,420
three years earlier when I was there,

703
00:33:16,420 --> 00:33:18,680
the man was a complete stranger.

704
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,500
So to have a complete stranger come up

705
00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:24,060
and tell you something that was an intimate thought

706
00:33:24,060 --> 00:33:26,940
in your head less than two weeks prior

707
00:33:26,940 --> 00:33:29,900
was a very good way to get me to wake up and pay attention.

708
00:33:29,900 --> 00:33:31,400
Like, okay, what's going on here?

709
00:33:32,420 --> 00:33:34,820
So yeah, I've actually been in touch with them

710
00:33:34,820 --> 00:33:37,740
a few times since we even all got together

711
00:33:37,740 --> 00:33:39,860
and recorded a little podcast

712
00:33:39,860 --> 00:33:43,380
just to kind of hash out what each other's experience was.

713
00:33:44,500 --> 00:33:46,820
Like I said, one of the people that was inside the room

714
00:33:46,820 --> 00:33:48,800
reached out to me to kind of relay

715
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:50,640
the oddities of his experience

716
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,340
as someone who was separated by a glass door.

717
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,580
So yeah, I've been in touch,

718
00:33:57,580 --> 00:33:59,640
even been in touch with these others

719
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,560
about six or seven times since then

720
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:02,840
in various capacities.

721
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,520
So it's an ongoing thing for sure.

722
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,960
When you say others, who do you think they are?

723
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:09,520
What do you think they are?

724
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:10,560
I have no idea.

725
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:12,720
The best I can do,

726
00:34:14,060 --> 00:34:17,480
yeah, the best I can do is some sort of

727
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:22,080
highly evolved consciousness, non-local consciousness

728
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:27,080
that is potentially associated with,

729
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:30,980
I don't know, I honestly don't know.

730
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:33,840
They alluded to being future humans

731
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:38,840
because when they asked if I would not quit doing

732
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,880
the stuff that I was so exhausted doing,

733
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,200
I said, how can you possibly know that?

734
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,460
And this is where it gets kind of weird

735
00:34:47,460 --> 00:34:49,760
because I, the first time in my life,

736
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,400
communicated telepathically as a question,

737
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,440
future humans without even opening my mouth.

738
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,240
And I don't know if they put that thought there

739
00:34:57,240 --> 00:35:01,240
or if I just thought it and it came out somehow.

740
00:35:01,260 --> 00:35:04,080
But then they sort of took that and moved on.

741
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,520
They didn't say, yes, we're future humans,

742
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,440
but there was an implication of sorts.

743
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:10,920
They alluded to it.

744
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,280
But I don't know, I wouldn't even begin to know

745
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:18,680
how to put what this thing is that's able to know

746
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:23,680
our thoughts and do things like partition part of my brain

747
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,360
and put information in it that I don't have access to

748
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,540
and how that relates to UFOs and future humans.

749
00:35:28,540 --> 00:35:29,380
I have no idea.

750
00:35:29,380 --> 00:35:33,340
So I'm not comfortable saying that's what they are

751
00:35:33,340 --> 00:35:34,700
because they didn't confirm that.

752
00:35:34,700 --> 00:35:36,040
They just alluded to it.

753
00:35:37,060 --> 00:35:40,500
And without a more definitive answer to that question,

754
00:35:40,500 --> 00:35:42,900
I don't really wanna speculate on it.

755
00:35:42,900 --> 00:35:44,140
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

756
00:35:44,140 --> 00:35:46,100
But it's nice to think about it.

757
00:35:46,100 --> 00:35:47,020
What about your colleagues?

758
00:35:47,020 --> 00:35:49,580
What about your colleagues at the university?

759
00:35:49,580 --> 00:35:51,340
Do you get any pushback?

760
00:35:51,340 --> 00:35:53,940
Do you get any criticism?

761
00:35:55,940 --> 00:35:57,780
Maybe secretly behind my back,

762
00:35:57,820 --> 00:36:00,520
but outwardly, everyone's extremely supportive.

763
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,440
I mean, nobody ever knows what people say

764
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:04,500
behind closed doors,

765
00:36:04,500 --> 00:36:09,500
but I've had a strong research and scholarship program.

766
00:36:10,140 --> 00:36:15,140
I've earned grants of published and well-respected journals.

767
00:36:15,740 --> 00:36:18,880
And so when I transitioned more to this UFO question,

768
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,880
I also did so in a way that was highly scientifically

769
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,800
fastidious where I make arguments that are difficult

770
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,800
to refute, because I'm not saying anything

771
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:30,040
that speculative.

772
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,340
It's just what we know based on our modern understanding

773
00:36:33,340 --> 00:36:37,120
of anthropology, astrobiology, physics, and astronomy,

774
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,600
largely, in other fields as well.

775
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,320
So if they bother to look at it and pay attention,

776
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:46,000
they'll realize that it's done in a very responsible way

777
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,260
without a lot of hyperbole and speculation.

778
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:55,400
But no, like in a more, how would I say,

779
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,360
manifested form, I've actually been extremely supported.

780
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,280
I was given sabbatical last year to engage in a lot

781
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,540
of the same research and go on these,

782
00:37:06,540 --> 00:37:08,880
film these documentaries, TV shows,

783
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:10,120
and publish another book.

784
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,620
And they gave me an award as well.

785
00:37:13,620 --> 00:37:15,920
I got a research and scholarship award right before

786
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:17,160
I went on sabbatical.

787
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,840
And the vast majority of the research I was doing

788
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:21,080
was related to UFOs.

789
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:25,240
So they're aware, and this was from the Dean's level

790
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:26,160
of our college.

791
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,640
So yeah, there's definitely-

792
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:29,480
Very cool.

793
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:30,320
Very cool.

794
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:31,780
Over support.

795
00:37:31,780 --> 00:37:32,920
Yeah, no, it's good.

796
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,400
I remember actually when the first book came out,

797
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,360
back in 2019, I was going up to receive

798
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,020
a Tenure Service Award.

799
00:37:41,020 --> 00:37:43,960
And the chancellor of the university had just seen

800
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:48,640
an article in Fox News about that book coming out

801
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:50,800
and what it was about as a featured article.

802
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,440
And yeah, shook my hand and said,

803
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,520
hey, I saw a story about this work in Fox News.

804
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,440
Congratulations.

805
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,240
So yeah, from the very beginning, it's always,

806
00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:02,920
at least so far has been extremely supportive.

807
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:05,400
Well, you use the word fastidious,

808
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:10,400
and that's a perfect adjective to the experience

809
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,800
I'm getting by reading through your book,

810
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,960
the extra tempestro model.

811
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,840
Because you talk, you put out there case studies,

812
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,920
several cases, I think a dozen case studies here,

813
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,920
and you introduce a very rich discussion

814
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:32,080
based on your scientific background

815
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:33,480
for each of these case studies.

816
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:37,520
And again, I can't pretend to have read the whole book

817
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,120
just yet, because I'm going through it,

818
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,120
but you're making links throughout.

819
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,600
You're creating or you're digging out for the threads

820
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,760
with all these experiences in these case studies

821
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,520
in a very functional manner, actually,

822
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,240
very functional manner, which is really cool

823
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:56,800
because it brings relevant things.

824
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:57,680
Sorry, go ahead.

825
00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,160
I was gonna say thanks for noticing that

826
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,520
because it was really hard to do

827
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,840
because you see how these are connected in certain ways,

828
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:06,520
but you have to introduce ones

829
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:08,520
before you can tie them back.

830
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,520
And because I did it in chronological order,

831
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:13,760
a lot of times there's something I would wanna tie in

832
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,320
that I have to wait to get there to tie into the earlier ones.

833
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:17,920
So I'm glad you noticed that.

834
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,040
It was a chess game trying to put those together.

835
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:21,160
I'll tell you what.

836
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:22,000
Yeah, I know.

837
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,040
I could see that that's not easy

838
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,600
because you also have to create a lot of context beforehand

839
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,400
when you're introducing these case studies.

840
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,600
And it's wonderful.

841
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,720
You also mentioned the Free Foundation

842
00:39:35,720 --> 00:39:37,480
quite a few times here.

843
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:42,240
And those people are some of my favorite people,

844
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:45,080
Ray Hernandez, Mary Rodwell,

845
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,520
and now Rudy Shield have all been on the podcast.

846
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,160
And they've done really cool work.

847
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,760
You've studied it much more than I have, obviously,

848
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,160
because reading through your book, I can see that you did.

849
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:58,680
It's a big book.

850
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:00,240
Yeah, it's really a big book,

851
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:03,440
but there's a lot of good information in there.

852
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:04,560
Yeah, it's huge.

853
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,080
So we talked about it at length in the podcast as well,

854
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:10,080
so we're not gonna go into that.

855
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:11,600
But I mentioned that also

856
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:13,760
because I wanna tie into something else

857
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,120
that you said on another podcast.

858
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,040
I'm sure you've said it many times.

859
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:22,360
It's clear that there is an alien hybridization program.

860
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:25,840
And this is something we've only heard

861
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,680
from Rudy Shield so far,

862
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:30,640
who's on the podcast a few weeks ago,

863
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,280
astrophysicist from Harvard.

864
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,160
Not necessarily.

865
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,720
Yeah, Gary Nolan at that SALT conference

866
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:40,800
alluded to that as well.

867
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:41,840
Well, we want him on too.

868
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:43,320
He hasn't been on, so yes.

869
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:44,880
If I remember correctly.

870
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,720
Yeah, no, I'm pretty sure he said more or less

871
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:50,960
that same thing in so many words.

872
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:52,800
I don't think it was exactly stated that way.

873
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,680
And I try to avoid the word alien too,

874
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:59,880
because it's kind of been muddied over the years

875
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:01,600
and intentionally in many cases

876
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,400
as part of this disinformation campaign

877
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:05,560
that's very well established.

878
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:06,400
For sure.

879
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:07,520
It's not conspiracy theory to say that.

880
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,000
But yeah, no, that's the most ubiquitous thing

881
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:11,960
across all these cases.

882
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,480
The extraction of sperm, egg,

883
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,240
fetuses are put in, taken out.

884
00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:17,480
There's case after case.

885
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:18,480
And the first time you hear that,

886
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,040
you're like, that's insane.

887
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:21,240
There's no way.

888
00:41:21,240 --> 00:41:24,160
But then you see it come up again and again and again

889
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,840
in cases with very reputable people

890
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:28,160
who have no reason to make it up.

891
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:29,080
In fact, most of the time,

892
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:30,800
they don't even want to talk about this

893
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,720
because they sound as crazy as I probably just sounded

894
00:41:33,720 --> 00:41:35,320
when I talked about my experience.

895
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:40,320
And it's nowhere close to as crazy or as elaborate

896
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,920
or as outside of our conventional realm

897
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,400
as something like being taken and abducted into a craft

898
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,320
and having your gametes extracted.

899
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,800
But then yeah, you have cases like Terry Lovelace,

900
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,480
for instance, where there's these incubation chambers

901
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,000
just lining the walls of this massive ship.

902
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,640
And he sees aliens, what he thinks are aliens,

903
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:03,720
but then he's like, oh my God,

904
00:42:03,720 --> 00:42:07,240
he even drops an F-bomb in there in his audio book at least.

905
00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:10,000
And he's like, these things are human.

906
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:11,400
And he just can't believe it.

907
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,640
He's like, well, they're not quite human.

908
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:15,920
They're not quite like these grays or anything.

909
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,120
But yeah, I mean, you read that enough

910
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,440
and you start to recognize

911
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,040
that at least for a period of time,

912
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,040
Whitley Streber was involved in this program

913
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:27,880
and seems to think it ended

914
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:29,880
or at least tapered off in the 1990s.

915
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,120
And I've heard a lot of other people say that as well.

916
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:33,880
But clearly for some time,

917
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:35,680
they were extracting our DNA

918
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,680
for a number of potential reasons.

919
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:43,360
And I try to discuss those in both books,

920
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,200
the first one and to a greater extent in the second one,

921
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,120
because some other things became,

922
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,400
I became aware of them as potential explanations

923
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,880
for why this has been happening for decades as well.

924
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:57,360
But I can't know.

925
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,160
I obviously can't know until they tell us,

926
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,480
but it's just some things in the same way.

927
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,320
In turn, the first book focuses

928
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,440
on long-term evolutionary trends.

929
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,140
The second book also focuses on trends

930
00:43:08,140 --> 00:43:10,820
and what's been happening and focusing on patterns

931
00:43:10,820 --> 00:43:12,780
and what we can identify in these patterns

932
00:43:12,780 --> 00:43:15,620
to potentially learn more about their intent

933
00:43:15,620 --> 00:43:17,940
and also their origins.

934
00:43:17,940 --> 00:43:19,780
Do you think your university would be open

935
00:43:19,780 --> 00:43:22,580
to the idea of having

936
00:43:23,660 --> 00:43:26,260
undergraduate studies in ufology?

937
00:43:27,260 --> 00:43:28,420
I don't know.

938
00:43:28,420 --> 00:43:30,420
Another thing I forgot to mention

939
00:43:30,420 --> 00:43:33,460
when you asked about institutional support was that

940
00:43:38,380 --> 00:43:39,940
I'm gonna say it was,

941
00:43:41,340 --> 00:43:43,700
crap, I don't remember if it was pre or post COVID,

942
00:43:43,700 --> 00:43:47,500
but it was either 2020 or 2021 maybe.

943
00:43:47,500 --> 00:43:50,540
I was actually asked to teach the honors class

944
00:43:52,140 --> 00:43:53,700
about the subject.

945
00:43:53,700 --> 00:43:56,800
The whole idea I was asked by the head

946
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,300
of the honors department

947
00:43:59,300 --> 00:44:02,140
if I would teach a class that centered on the first book,

948
00:44:02,140 --> 00:44:04,420
because it is a more hard science book.

949
00:44:04,420 --> 00:44:06,660
And I intentionally did that to bridge this gap

950
00:44:06,660 --> 00:44:09,220
between ufology and my academic colleagues

951
00:44:09,220 --> 00:44:11,740
who require that to take it seriously,

952
00:44:11,740 --> 00:44:14,500
but I also wanted to make it readable for everyone.

953
00:44:14,500 --> 00:44:16,100
And I've been told it's dense,

954
00:44:16,100 --> 00:44:19,260
but if you look up some words, you can follow along.

955
00:44:19,260 --> 00:44:21,240
And then the second book flips the script

956
00:44:21,240 --> 00:44:23,420
towards the stories that you can just put

957
00:44:23,420 --> 00:44:25,140
on the audio book and listen to,

958
00:44:25,140 --> 00:44:27,100
and you don't have to look up as many words,

959
00:44:27,100 --> 00:44:29,700
but it brings the science into that.

960
00:44:29,700 --> 00:44:32,280
But prior to that book coming out in 2022,

961
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,340
so it might've even been 2021,

962
00:44:35,340 --> 00:44:37,460
they asked me to teach a class where the idea was

963
00:44:37,460 --> 00:44:40,680
that each chapter in that first book

964
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:42,340
would be a separate week.

965
00:44:42,340 --> 00:44:44,700
And we'd sort of break down the science behind it

966
00:44:44,700 --> 00:44:48,860
and look at how this might relate to the UFO phenomenon,

967
00:44:48,860 --> 00:44:52,020
not just in the context of time traveling future humans,

968
00:44:52,020 --> 00:44:55,300
but the other hypotheses that are put forth as well,

969
00:44:55,300 --> 00:44:59,180
because I do talk a lot about the extraterrestrial hypothesis

970
00:44:59,180 --> 00:45:01,500
and the earlier chapters of that book,

971
00:45:01,500 --> 00:45:04,180
because it's kind of been the dominant mantra for so long.

972
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,120
Are you being asked to expand that out

973
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:09,100
or to teach that course again?

974
00:45:10,300 --> 00:45:12,980
I couldn't have done it at that time.

975
00:45:12,980 --> 00:45:16,080
I just didn't have the time for it.

976
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,660
I thought it was cool that they asked and I wanted to do it.

977
00:45:19,660 --> 00:45:21,900
And I've never revisited it since.

978
00:45:22,900 --> 00:45:25,540
Might be something to look into.

979
00:45:25,540 --> 00:45:27,020
Cause yeah, I think it would be really unique.

980
00:45:27,020 --> 00:45:30,380
There's not a lot of classes about UFOs anywhere.

981
00:45:30,380 --> 00:45:32,940
No, I see this really for two reasons.

982
00:45:32,940 --> 00:45:36,300
And the second one just popped into my head now.

983
00:45:36,300 --> 00:45:40,140
We had a discussion with Diana Posalka here on the podcast

984
00:45:41,300 --> 00:45:44,600
and we talked a lot about the research and the work

985
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,540
that you put behind that first book, American Cosmic.

986
00:45:48,580 --> 00:45:51,340
And since then she saw a year later,

987
00:45:51,340 --> 00:45:53,540
so this past November, she came out

988
00:45:53,540 --> 00:45:56,140
that the second book encounters that Netflix.

989
00:45:56,140 --> 00:45:58,740
Netflix also did a series based loosely on her work

990
00:45:58,740 --> 00:45:59,700
and she was a consultant.

991
00:45:59,700 --> 00:46:02,260
But anyway, she told me, cause she's got five kids

992
00:46:02,260 --> 00:46:04,700
and she was surprised when she came out with this book

993
00:46:04,700 --> 00:46:07,780
that her kids were not embarrassed at all.

994
00:46:07,780 --> 00:46:08,700
They were really into it.

995
00:46:08,700 --> 00:46:10,580
And so were her kids friends.

996
00:46:10,580 --> 00:46:13,220
All these teenagers were really into the message.

997
00:46:13,220 --> 00:46:15,380
And I found proof in that personally,

998
00:46:16,260 --> 00:46:17,820
my kids enjoy the books.

999
00:46:20,100 --> 00:46:22,860
Because it's a blend of science and storytelling

1000
00:46:22,860 --> 00:46:27,340
in order to actually relate to the science

1001
00:46:27,340 --> 00:46:28,340
and to the research.

1002
00:46:29,460 --> 00:46:31,540
And she's a university prof as well.

1003
00:46:31,540 --> 00:46:34,500
Yeah, it's good to have both of those things.

1004
00:46:34,500 --> 00:46:38,540
And that's why my first book has been dubbed dense

1005
00:46:38,540 --> 00:46:40,260
and kind of a slog at times.

1006
00:46:40,260 --> 00:46:41,660
I'm not selling it very well here,

1007
00:46:41,660 --> 00:46:43,980
but it's good for people to know what it is.

1008
00:46:43,980 --> 00:46:45,380
And a lot of people like that.

1009
00:46:45,380 --> 00:46:48,580
Like if you have a physics background or anthropology

1010
00:46:48,580 --> 00:46:51,900
or astronomy background, then it's really,

1011
00:46:51,900 --> 00:46:54,940
I grew up loving, I couldn't get enough of books

1012
00:46:54,940 --> 00:46:57,620
like Igor Novikov's The River of Time

1013
00:46:57,620 --> 00:47:00,380
and Kip Thorne's Black Holes and Time Warps.

1014
00:47:00,380 --> 00:47:03,740
I was consuming those, like there was no tomorrow.

1015
00:47:03,740 --> 00:47:05,820
So some people are into that stuff.

1016
00:47:05,820 --> 00:47:07,500
And it was cool to write that first one

1017
00:47:07,500 --> 00:47:09,660
for people like me, even kids.

1018
00:47:09,660 --> 00:47:13,660
One of the first talks I gave was up in Lewiston, Montana.

1019
00:47:13,660 --> 00:47:15,460
Lewiston, Montana.

1020
00:47:16,660 --> 00:47:17,700
And they actually say Lewington.

1021
00:47:17,700 --> 00:47:19,740
It's a hotly debated topic.

1022
00:47:19,740 --> 00:47:22,540
But it's right outside of where Malmstrom Air Force Base

1023
00:47:22,540 --> 00:47:25,260
was where they shut down 10 nukes

1024
00:47:26,220 --> 00:47:29,020
and synchronicity there one after another.

1025
00:47:29,020 --> 00:47:32,660
And yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry.

1026
00:47:32,660 --> 00:47:35,940
The UFO, or a UFO, I don't remember how many were there.

1027
00:47:35,940 --> 00:47:39,500
But it was in this like really beautiful historic library

1028
00:47:39,500 --> 00:47:41,380
up in the ballroom area of it.

1029
00:47:41,380 --> 00:47:43,140
I guess they're not ballroom libraries,

1030
00:47:43,140 --> 00:47:46,540
but whatever you would call like the common meeting space.

1031
00:47:46,540 --> 00:47:48,220
But as I was getting ready to give the talk,

1032
00:47:48,220 --> 00:47:50,460
I was downstairs and there was an 11 year old kid

1033
00:47:50,460 --> 00:47:53,380
checking out my book as I was like getting ready

1034
00:47:53,380 --> 00:47:54,980
to go up and give this lecture.

1035
00:47:54,980 --> 00:47:57,140
And I was like, hey, man, you know, come up,

1036
00:47:57,140 --> 00:47:59,660
have a listen if you're interested in this.

1037
00:47:59,660 --> 00:48:01,580
And just to see that, you know,

1038
00:48:01,580 --> 00:48:05,740
was a good introduction into the public conversations

1039
00:48:05,740 --> 00:48:06,980
that were taking place.

1040
00:48:06,980 --> 00:48:07,940
Yeah, that's great.

1041
00:48:07,940 --> 00:48:11,300
It's great to see that there's a stigma that's melting away.

1042
00:48:11,300 --> 00:48:12,640
It seems that way.

1043
00:48:13,860 --> 00:48:15,980
But yeah, this young generation.

1044
00:48:15,980 --> 00:48:17,300
It does for sure.

1045
00:48:17,300 --> 00:48:19,640
So Rudy Scheel proposed,

1046
00:48:20,780 --> 00:48:22,980
because he was vying to get onto the committee,

1047
00:48:23,820 --> 00:48:28,820
that evaluates new undergraduate degree programs.

1048
00:48:30,020 --> 00:48:35,020
And he was proposing that Harvard come up with,

1049
00:48:36,300 --> 00:48:37,940
or design, excuse me, not come up,

1050
00:48:37,940 --> 00:48:42,080
but design an undergraduate degree on ufology.

1051
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,140
And his argument, he says, it's very simple.

1052
00:48:44,140 --> 00:48:45,580
Oh, wow, that'd be awesome.

1053
00:48:45,580 --> 00:48:47,660
Yeah, so he said it this way,

1054
00:48:47,660 --> 00:48:49,460
or this is the way he explained it to me.

1055
00:48:50,620 --> 00:48:51,980
I really like his style.

1056
00:48:51,980 --> 00:48:56,420
He says, does Harvard want to be the first

1057
00:48:56,420 --> 00:48:59,340
to have this program or the last?

1058
00:49:01,460 --> 00:49:05,540
So they voted him down, but it was surprising.

1059
00:49:05,540 --> 00:49:06,860
So it was one last note in this.

1060
00:49:06,860 --> 00:49:08,900
I'm not surprised though.

1061
00:49:08,900 --> 00:49:10,180
Yeah, of course.

1062
00:49:10,180 --> 00:49:11,820
But that's why I asked you about your university,

1063
00:49:11,820 --> 00:49:12,660
because it seems to be-

1064
00:49:12,660 --> 00:49:15,500
I mean, these are the same people that went after John Mack

1065
00:49:15,500 --> 00:49:20,200
and yeah, no, they are, absolutely.

1066
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:21,260
But that's different.

1067
00:49:21,340 --> 00:49:23,900
I mean, that's gonna garner so much attention

1068
00:49:23,900 --> 00:49:27,140
from the media and people, we're not quite there yet.

1069
00:49:27,140 --> 00:49:28,900
Like the stigma is waning.

1070
00:49:28,900 --> 00:49:31,060
And yeah, that'd be a very progressive thing to do.

1071
00:49:31,060 --> 00:49:34,340
And historically, it's potentially the right thing to do,

1072
00:49:34,340 --> 00:49:36,100
like to be on the right side of history,

1073
00:49:36,100 --> 00:49:37,800
because these are real.

1074
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:41,340
Whether you buy into the hybridization,

1075
00:49:41,340 --> 00:49:43,440
or you're not quite comfortable yet,

1076
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:44,860
it's not even about a belief system.

1077
00:49:44,860 --> 00:49:46,660
It's whether you take seriously the people

1078
00:49:46,660 --> 00:49:48,580
that have had these encounters

1079
00:49:48,580 --> 00:49:50,660
and what they describe over and over,

1080
00:49:50,660 --> 00:49:52,180
whether you're at that level yet

1081
00:49:52,180 --> 00:49:55,700
where you're able to process that and accept that,

1082
00:49:55,700 --> 00:49:57,740
that's up to each individual.

1083
00:49:57,740 --> 00:50:00,900
But you cannot deny that UFOs are real.

1084
00:50:00,900 --> 00:50:03,420
So if you wanna start simple,

1085
00:50:03,420 --> 00:50:06,660
what are UFOs or how do we understand UFOs

1086
00:50:06,660 --> 00:50:08,420
or what is the UFO phenomenon?

1087
00:50:08,420 --> 00:50:10,780
Just keep it real vague in your description.

1088
00:50:10,780 --> 00:50:13,740
That way, you don't garner the negative publicity

1089
00:50:13,740 --> 00:50:16,300
that still comes with people having these hang ups

1090
00:50:16,300 --> 00:50:19,200
that are the result of manufactured stigma

1091
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,280
that goes back to the 1940s.

1092
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:23,960
This is the part of this kind of discussion

1093
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:25,560
that really intrigues me

1094
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:30,160
is the connection with the non-physical,

1095
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:31,800
the non-local consciousness,

1096
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,720
the downloaded information, the telepathic communication.

1097
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:40,160
Because really, that's where we can find answers.

1098
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:45,740
I asked you before, and it was,

1099
00:50:45,740 --> 00:50:47,720
the old me would have asked you the same question.

1100
00:50:47,720 --> 00:50:50,200
Why did you, the old me would have said,

1101
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:52,080
why did you consent to this information

1102
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:53,360
if you didn't really want it?

1103
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:54,960
Come on, that's what I would have said.

1104
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,980
Now I say, why did you consent to that information,

1105
00:50:57,980 --> 00:50:59,560
even though you didn't want it?

1106
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:01,900
What's up with your mind frame

1107
00:51:01,900 --> 00:51:03,400
about wanting that information?

1108
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:09,040
It's the same question, but with a different intent.

1109
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,600
I see, yeah, and that's kind of how it was for me.

1110
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:16,420
It was almost like, well, hey, they were very polite,

1111
00:51:16,460 --> 00:51:18,300
as I've mentioned before.

1112
00:51:18,300 --> 00:51:21,380
It was the nicest way they could possibly ask.

1113
00:51:21,380 --> 00:51:23,380
And it seemed like I had volition.

1114
00:51:23,380 --> 00:51:26,260
I could have said no, arguably.

1115
00:51:26,260 --> 00:51:29,360
But they presented themselves in a way

1116
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,380
that made it very, not difficult to do that,

1117
00:51:32,380 --> 00:51:37,380
but almost like there was some sort of duty.

1118
00:51:39,260 --> 00:51:41,380
Obligation seems like the wrong word

1119
00:51:41,380 --> 00:51:44,100
because I didn't feel like I was being forced into it.

1120
00:51:44,620 --> 00:51:46,660
But I guess, let me put it this way.

1121
00:51:46,660 --> 00:51:50,780
They did a good job creating an awareness in me

1122
00:51:50,780 --> 00:51:55,260
about the fact that if they even have the ability

1123
00:51:55,260 --> 00:51:57,380
to know my thoughts and to control people,

1124
00:51:57,380 --> 00:52:00,260
to take over people and manipulate them,

1125
00:52:00,260 --> 00:52:02,260
like they did with the women that came on the balcony,

1126
00:52:02,260 --> 00:52:03,620
as I found out later, the people

1127
00:52:03,620 --> 00:52:05,780
that they sent there to do this.

1128
00:52:05,780 --> 00:52:09,820
If they are able to do things like that,

1129
00:52:09,820 --> 00:52:11,180
and then you start looking, yeah,

1130
00:52:11,180 --> 00:52:14,340
like Diana Pasulka's work and my most recent book

1131
00:52:14,340 --> 00:52:16,620
gets into this a lot, that we see things like that

1132
00:52:16,620 --> 00:52:18,860
happening throughout antiquity.

1133
00:52:18,860 --> 00:52:21,660
And we can kind of understand them in the context

1134
00:52:21,660 --> 00:52:23,860
of the weirdness of it being interpreted

1135
00:52:23,860 --> 00:52:26,420
as religious phenomenon and spiritual phenomenon

1136
00:52:26,420 --> 00:52:27,420
in Eastern tradition.

1137
00:52:27,420 --> 00:52:29,340
So this isn't anything new.

1138
00:52:29,340 --> 00:52:31,980
This kind of stuff's been going on for a long time.

1139
00:52:31,980 --> 00:52:33,380
And I guess they did a good job

1140
00:52:33,380 --> 00:52:35,340
presenting that holistic connection,

1141
00:52:35,340 --> 00:52:36,980
not just in my own life,

1142
00:52:36,980 --> 00:52:40,480
but with regard to the role that consciousness plays

1143
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:42,200
in our physical reality.

1144
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:43,840
It led to a lot more questions,

1145
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,480
but they presented it well at that time

1146
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,520
to where I felt safe and comfortable.

1147
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:52,720
There's very much a group mind,

1148
00:52:52,720 --> 00:52:54,960
almost hive mind aspect to it,

1149
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,720
where I was brought into that world to some extent.

1150
00:52:57,720 --> 00:52:59,800
It wasn't just forced onto me,

1151
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:01,200
but I was almost brought into it

1152
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,560
to see the bigger picture for a brief period of time.

1153
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,680
But much like an intense acid trip,

1154
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:07,480
where you think you have everything figured out,

1155
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:09,080
you come out of that and it's like,

1156
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:13,160
well, shit, I have absolutely no idea what any of this is

1157
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:15,600
and only have more questions and answers now.

1158
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:19,160
But in that moment, there was a level of lucidity

1159
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:23,200
that allowed me to kind of see deeper into that,

1160
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:25,160
which also played into the acceptance

1161
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:28,280
of what they did in that moment.

1162
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:29,960
You're drawn by mountains.

1163
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,800
We talked about mountains and beaches, okay.

1164
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:37,980
Well, I don't have a question yet prepared for beaches,

1165
00:53:38,100 --> 00:53:41,420
but it's like a mountains for now, maybe one or company.

1166
00:53:41,420 --> 00:53:44,140
You said you're always drawn by them

1167
00:53:44,140 --> 00:53:47,540
and you used to ski a lot or you still ski.

1168
00:53:47,540 --> 00:53:50,720
And you said you used to have bad dreams about not skiing

1169
00:53:50,720 --> 00:53:51,820
when you were in Ohio.

1170
00:53:55,860 --> 00:53:57,980
I have a similar feeling when I'm around mountains.

1171
00:53:57,980 --> 00:53:59,820
It feels like they are speaking,

1172
00:53:59,820 --> 00:54:01,900
like they feel like they have.

1173
00:54:01,900 --> 00:54:03,300
Well, here's the question to you.

1174
00:54:03,300 --> 00:54:06,220
Are mountains beings, are they alive?

1175
00:54:08,860 --> 00:54:10,260
Oh man, I don't know.

1176
00:54:10,260 --> 00:54:13,500
I mean, oh, it's interesting too

1177
00:54:13,500 --> 00:54:17,100
because one of the basic definitions of a living form

1178
00:54:17,100 --> 00:54:19,460
is can it reproduce itself,

1179
00:54:19,460 --> 00:54:22,660
which is why we don't consider viruses living things.

1180
00:54:22,660 --> 00:54:25,180
And I found out that's quite contentious recently,

1181
00:54:25,180 --> 00:54:27,700
but also life is an entropy reducer.

1182
00:54:27,700 --> 00:54:32,700
So it takes chaos and forms something more patterned.

1183
00:54:33,580 --> 00:54:36,820
And in a sense, mountains kind of do both.

1184
00:54:37,100 --> 00:54:39,420
They destroy what they build.

1185
00:54:39,420 --> 00:54:41,220
Subduction leads to erogany.

1186
00:54:41,220 --> 00:54:44,420
It's one of my favorite phrases from geology.

1187
00:54:45,300 --> 00:54:46,140
So I don't know.

1188
00:54:46,140 --> 00:54:50,180
I guess the deeper question would be like, is rock alive?

1189
00:54:50,180 --> 00:54:55,060
And I think I would differentiate between being alive

1190
00:54:55,060 --> 00:54:58,460
and having some sort of energetic relationship

1191
00:54:58,460 --> 00:55:00,700
to other things.

1192
00:55:00,700 --> 00:55:03,380
But that would require us to expand our definition

1193
00:55:03,380 --> 00:55:05,300
of what biological life is.

1194
00:55:05,620 --> 00:55:07,780
So no, in the context of how we define life

1195
00:55:07,780 --> 00:55:10,180
in biological terms, I would say no.

1196
00:55:10,180 --> 00:55:14,380
But if we look at the energy that things possess and exude

1197
00:55:14,380 --> 00:55:16,660
and mountains certainly do that,

1198
00:55:16,660 --> 00:55:19,540
I would say that they do have a sort of power,

1199
00:55:19,540 --> 00:55:22,460
if I can use that word as a bit of a scapegoat

1200
00:55:22,460 --> 00:55:23,340
to the question.

1201
00:55:23,340 --> 00:55:26,100
What I do sense in layman's terms,

1202
00:55:26,100 --> 00:55:29,180
because this is the only terms I know as if to excuse me,

1203
00:55:29,180 --> 00:55:33,380
is they have a sound, they seem to have a sound.

1204
00:55:33,380 --> 00:55:35,420
And that's why I say alive.

1205
00:55:35,420 --> 00:55:38,740
You're obviously much more eloquent

1206
00:55:38,740 --> 00:55:42,220
and researched and knowledgeable

1207
00:55:42,220 --> 00:55:44,700
in how you responded to that.

1208
00:55:44,700 --> 00:55:47,380
But just in simple terms for me,

1209
00:55:47,380 --> 00:55:50,220
it really does sound, it really does feel

1210
00:55:50,220 --> 00:55:54,940
that they have a sound that I can't tap into,

1211
00:55:54,940 --> 00:55:57,140
but I know that it's there.

1212
00:55:57,140 --> 00:55:57,980
Yeah.

1213
00:55:57,980 --> 00:56:02,020
And what is sound other than a form of energy,

1214
00:56:02,180 --> 00:56:04,020
a form of wave energy.

1215
00:56:04,020 --> 00:56:06,380
And yeah, I mean, I think that's what we're kind of talking

1216
00:56:06,380 --> 00:56:07,580
about earlier with the animals

1217
00:56:07,580 --> 00:56:10,660
and how other animals might be more in tune with that.

1218
00:56:10,660 --> 00:56:15,220
Maybe there is something happening with regard to,

1219
00:56:15,220 --> 00:56:16,900
there obviously is with like plants, animals.

1220
00:56:16,900 --> 00:56:19,220
I just saw this cool clip the other day

1221
00:56:19,220 --> 00:56:23,580
where David Attenborough hooked up a speaker to a flower

1222
00:56:23,580 --> 00:56:25,580
and they changed their frequency

1223
00:56:25,580 --> 00:56:28,700
and amount of vibrational energy that they give off

1224
00:56:28,700 --> 00:56:31,420
based on whether a bee has already taken the pollen

1225
00:56:31,420 --> 00:56:32,820
from the flower.

1226
00:56:32,820 --> 00:56:34,940
So they've developed this energetic relationship

1227
00:56:34,940 --> 00:56:35,780
and you can hear it.

1228
00:56:35,780 --> 00:56:38,340
You can hear it change as the bee gets closer,

1229
00:56:38,340 --> 00:56:40,220
the energy of the flower changes

1230
00:56:40,220 --> 00:56:43,100
and then its entire pitch and tone changes

1231
00:56:43,100 --> 00:56:45,140
once the bee leaves to signal to other ones.

1232
00:56:45,140 --> 00:56:48,820
And things like that probably exist all around us,

1233
00:56:48,820 --> 00:56:52,220
but we just, we aren't necessarily tapped in in the way-

1234
00:56:52,220 --> 00:56:54,340
We're not attuned to it.

1235
00:56:54,340 --> 00:56:55,660
Yeah, we're not attuned to it.

1236
00:56:55,660 --> 00:56:57,900
And maybe it's the same thing with the mountains

1237
00:56:57,900 --> 00:57:00,980
and beaches, maybe there's something about that.

1238
00:57:00,980 --> 00:57:02,620
The beach is a little more intuitive

1239
00:57:02,620 --> 00:57:05,420
because it has the wave sound and water

1240
00:57:05,420 --> 00:57:07,140
and there's something comforting about that.

1241
00:57:07,140 --> 00:57:07,980
Yeah, what's a beach with a water?

1242
00:57:07,980 --> 00:57:10,300
No, I would completely agree with that.

1243
00:57:10,300 --> 00:57:13,060
Yeah, and water is one of the most basic things

1244
00:57:13,060 --> 00:57:14,140
we need for survival.

1245
00:57:14,140 --> 00:57:15,260
So naturally we're drawn to it.

1246
00:57:15,260 --> 00:57:17,420
Even if you can't drink seawater,

1247
00:57:17,420 --> 00:57:20,500
you can eat some of the tasty things that live in it.

1248
00:57:21,420 --> 00:57:24,900
So yeah, no, I think that's a cool way of looking at it.

1249
00:57:24,900 --> 00:57:27,020
I would totally agree with that.

1250
00:57:27,020 --> 00:57:29,580
Not an accident that you play guitar

1251
00:57:29,580 --> 00:57:32,700
because I'm just looking at what I wrote down here

1252
00:57:32,700 --> 00:57:33,860
in our last conversation.

1253
00:57:33,860 --> 00:57:38,860
You said guitar, so you're also a songwriter.

1254
00:57:38,980 --> 00:57:40,540
You haven't written songs in a while.

1255
00:57:40,540 --> 00:57:43,180
That's whatever I remember you saying.

1256
00:57:43,180 --> 00:57:44,620
You said the guitar-

1257
00:57:44,620 --> 00:57:47,300
Yeah, probably written, I don't know,

1258
00:57:47,300 --> 00:57:52,060
close to 70 or 80 songs maybe.

1259
00:57:52,060 --> 00:57:55,620
But yeah, my main instrument's piano,

1260
00:57:55,620 --> 00:57:57,740
but I also play mandolin and guitar.

1261
00:57:58,740 --> 00:58:02,220
So we just had Pacho Flores on,

1262
00:58:02,220 --> 00:58:04,940
and he's a Venezuelan trumpeter.

1263
00:58:04,940 --> 00:58:06,940
One of the premier trumpeters,

1264
00:58:06,940 --> 00:58:08,340
I didn't know this actually,

1265
00:58:08,340 --> 00:58:10,700
when we reached out to him, in the world.

1266
00:58:10,700 --> 00:58:14,300
And one of his missions is to bring Latin culture

1267
00:58:14,300 --> 00:58:17,700
into classical trumpet music, trumpet sounds.

1268
00:58:19,340 --> 00:58:21,780
But anyway, we talked about strings and piano

1269
00:58:21,780 --> 00:58:23,740
versus brass playing.

1270
00:58:23,740 --> 00:58:27,100
And he compared them both in how they,

1271
00:58:27,420 --> 00:58:29,660
I think I told you this, I think I did.

1272
00:58:29,660 --> 00:58:31,300
You did, yeah, yeah, you did.

1273
00:58:32,820 --> 00:58:35,940
So just the tip of the arrow then

1274
00:58:35,940 --> 00:58:38,340
of that conversation I had with him is that

1275
00:58:38,340 --> 00:58:42,420
he said strings and piano,

1276
00:58:42,420 --> 00:58:43,940
string instruments and piano,

1277
00:58:45,340 --> 00:58:47,020
you develop faster notes than brass

1278
00:58:47,020 --> 00:58:51,460
because the sound is made for you.

1279
00:58:52,740 --> 00:58:55,820
You just have to tap into how to use it.

1280
00:58:55,820 --> 00:58:57,500
And then, so this is what you told me.

1281
00:58:57,500 --> 00:58:59,380
I wanted to go back to what you said

1282
00:58:59,380 --> 00:59:01,420
because it makes sense for me.

1283
00:59:01,420 --> 00:59:03,260
What you've been saying all along here

1284
00:59:03,260 --> 00:59:05,660
about your experiences is that you said

1285
00:59:05,660 --> 00:59:09,260
that the guitar helps bring information into the world.

1286
00:59:09,260 --> 00:59:12,020
It's the rhythm and the guitar takes

1287
00:59:12,020 --> 00:59:14,100
your body out of the process.

1288
00:59:14,100 --> 00:59:16,380
Yeah, I mean, what is music

1289
00:59:16,380 --> 00:59:20,180
if it's not entering that creative flow state

1290
00:59:20,180 --> 00:59:23,420
and tapping into the creative realm?

1291
00:59:23,420 --> 00:59:25,860
You hear so many musicians talk about this

1292
00:59:25,860 --> 00:59:28,300
and not just musicians, but writers

1293
00:59:28,300 --> 00:59:33,300
and visual artists, dancers, painters.

1294
00:59:33,460 --> 00:59:36,780
You really kind of almost just give yourself up

1295
00:59:36,780 --> 00:59:38,780
and become a conduit unto yourself.

1296
00:59:38,780 --> 00:59:41,660
It's almost a form of mediumship unto itself

1297
00:59:41,660 --> 00:59:44,620
where you just allow the energy of the universe

1298
00:59:44,620 --> 00:59:45,460
to flow through you.

1299
00:59:45,460 --> 00:59:47,700
And I probably sound like a raging hippie right now

1300
00:59:47,700 --> 00:59:50,700
but that's what it feels like when you're creating

1301
00:59:50,700 --> 00:59:54,180
because I also paint, I used to paint quite prolifically.

1302
00:59:55,380 --> 00:59:57,900
I haven't for a while, much like I haven't written a song

1303
00:59:57,900 --> 01:00:01,260
for a while, but you feel that same thing.

1304
01:00:01,260 --> 01:00:03,460
If you're in that state, it's almost like

1305
01:00:03,460 --> 01:00:05,260
you're not even controlling your body.

1306
01:00:05,260 --> 01:00:08,420
You're just, you're feeling whatever that song is

1307
01:00:08,420 --> 01:00:10,940
that's trying to come through, break on through

1308
01:00:10,940 --> 01:00:15,060
to the other side or the painting that wants you to hit the,

1309
01:00:15,060 --> 01:00:16,500
yeah, sorry, that was a little cheesy

1310
01:00:16,500 --> 01:00:19,340
or the paintbrush to move in a specific way

1311
01:00:19,460 --> 01:00:21,380
that blends these colors in a way

1312
01:00:21,380 --> 01:00:23,660
that if you just thought consciously about it

1313
01:00:23,660 --> 01:00:25,300
and took that out of the equation,

1314
01:00:25,300 --> 01:00:28,060
then you wouldn't be able to make the same thing.

1315
01:00:28,060 --> 01:00:30,420
So yeah, I've definitely felt that

1316
01:00:30,420 --> 01:00:32,540
in creative pursuits over the years.

1317
01:00:34,220 --> 01:00:37,060
Have your creative pursuits amplified at all

1318
01:00:37,060 --> 01:00:41,540
since these experiences have taken a more front seat

1319
01:00:41,540 --> 01:00:42,380
in your life?

1320
01:00:43,380 --> 01:00:48,380
Um, they probably would if I gave them the opportunity to.

1321
01:00:49,220 --> 01:00:54,220
I've just kind of pulled back from a lot of things

1322
01:00:54,220 --> 01:00:55,980
I used to be very passionate about.

1323
01:00:57,980 --> 01:00:59,700
I don't know if that's related or not.

1324
01:00:59,700 --> 01:01:01,180
Maybe it's also just time.

1325
01:01:01,180 --> 01:01:03,380
I haven't had the time to do those things

1326
01:01:03,380 --> 01:01:07,180
or, you know, family, kids getting older.

1327
01:01:07,180 --> 01:01:08,260
I don't know.

1328
01:01:08,260 --> 01:01:10,620
I always say how much I'd like to,

1329
01:01:10,660 --> 01:01:13,900
but then if I have some free time, I just don't.

1330
01:01:14,900 --> 01:01:17,460
But it would be interesting to revisit it after,

1331
01:01:19,260 --> 01:01:22,060
because I think anything that happens in people's lives

1332
01:01:22,060 --> 01:01:23,700
changes the way that they interact

1333
01:01:23,700 --> 01:01:25,340
with the world around them.

1334
01:01:25,340 --> 01:01:30,340
So it's not that I've experienced anything like life altering,

1335
01:01:30,660 --> 01:01:34,340
but it's definitely changed the way I think about things

1336
01:01:34,340 --> 01:01:38,180
like creativity and energy and the relationship

1337
01:01:39,180 --> 01:01:42,620
with the physical reality that we find ourselves in.

1338
01:01:42,620 --> 01:01:46,540
So yeah, it would be interesting to start writing songs

1339
01:01:46,540 --> 01:01:49,860
and painting again to see kind of where it went.

1340
01:01:49,860 --> 01:01:54,340
So if time weren't an issue and money weren't an issue,

1341
01:01:54,340 --> 01:01:55,460
you didn't have to earn it.

1342
01:01:55,460 --> 01:01:56,820
You don't have to worry about earning a living

1343
01:01:56,820 --> 01:01:58,900
or having a career.

1344
01:01:58,900 --> 01:02:00,460
Any of that, put all of that aside.

1345
01:02:00,460 --> 01:02:03,540
Where would you spend and how would you spend your time?

1346
01:02:04,140 --> 01:02:08,540
I would split my time between the mountains and the beach.

1347
01:02:10,180 --> 01:02:11,020
Doing what?

1348
01:02:11,860 --> 01:02:13,300
But where that is, I don't know.

1349
01:02:13,300 --> 01:02:15,120
Hopefully someplace that has both.

1350
01:02:16,820 --> 01:02:18,060
I don't know.

1351
01:02:18,060 --> 01:02:21,740
Probably the things that we're talking about

1352
01:02:21,740 --> 01:02:25,340
that I just haven't had time to do recently.

1353
01:02:25,340 --> 01:02:28,460
I think I would have a little studio with an easel set up

1354
01:02:28,460 --> 01:02:33,460
and start using some of the 40 plus blank canvases

1355
01:02:33,820 --> 01:02:35,740
that I've accumulated over the years.

1356
01:02:36,740 --> 01:02:39,300
Have instruments laying around and cool people

1357
01:02:39,300 --> 01:02:40,420
to jam songs with.

1358
01:02:40,420 --> 01:02:43,660
Because really for me, music is playing with other people.

1359
01:02:43,660 --> 01:02:45,900
It's having that shared communal space

1360
01:02:45,900 --> 01:02:49,620
that almost feels like a hive mind flow state of sorts

1361
01:02:49,620 --> 01:02:52,960
where you're just kind of everyone giving up ego

1362
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:54,140
for that moment.

1363
01:02:54,140 --> 01:02:56,220
And ironically, there's a lot of ego in bands,

1364
01:02:56,220 --> 01:02:58,740
but in that moment where you're jamming together,

1365
01:02:58,740 --> 01:03:02,360
you just kind of dissolve that and all interact

1366
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:03,760
in a really unique way.

1367
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:08,320
And I've felt that with a lot of other people over the years

1368
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:10,520
and it's a really beautiful thing.

1369
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:13,520
If you can find the right people to play with.

1370
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:16,800
So I think I would probably just hang out on the beach

1371
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:21,100
and drink pina coladas and jam tunes with people.

1372
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:25,220
I have a place to recommend to you.

1373
01:03:25,220 --> 01:03:26,840
Beach and mountains.

1374
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:28,440
Hit me.

1375
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:33,280
So it's a place in Southern Italy called Praia Mare.

1376
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:36,600
And it's in Calabria, which is the toll of the boot.

1377
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:39,240
And I say it because we have close family friends

1378
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:40,120
that are there.

1379
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:41,380
Shout out to Madeline.

1380
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:44,400
I'll send you the video that I took when I was there.

1381
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:46,000
It was the first time that I was there.

1382
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:51,000
And I think of the distance between the mountains

1383
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:53,840
and right in this town.

1384
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:56,560
And the beach is less than a kilometer.

1385
01:03:56,560 --> 01:04:00,400
And I call it like 700 meters, 800 meters, whatever.

1386
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:05,680
She's on a high rise, I think of three floors.

1387
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:07,100
And so she's on the balcony.

1388
01:04:07,100 --> 01:04:08,600
She has an outdoor kitchen as well.

1389
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:11,800
So she's cooking dinner for us outside.

1390
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:15,240
And the kitchen facing the kitchen is a mountain.

1391
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:18,440
Just you looking straight up, left, right mountains,

1392
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:19,480
an ancient cave.

1393
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:21,280
There's an ancient church there too.

1394
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:25,280
I took this video as the pasta was boiling

1395
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:27,360
and she was cooking, I think it was rabbit that night

1396
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:28,560
that we were having.

1397
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:32,080
Went around to the other side of the balcony is the sea.

1398
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:34,360
And it was absolutely stunning.

1399
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:35,800
Just stunning.

1400
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:36,640
Yeah, anyway.

1401
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:38,480
Last question.

1402
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:39,320
Sorry.

1403
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:41,060
I didn't want to bore you with that.

1404
01:04:41,060 --> 01:04:43,680
But I'll send you the video if you still appreciate that.

1405
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:45,920
I'd actually been trying to think about,

1406
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:47,000
yeah, I'd love to see it.

1407
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:50,440
I've been to Northern Italy, but never Central or South.

1408
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:52,900
Different energy in the South.

1409
01:04:52,900 --> 01:04:54,960
Very different, very ancient.

1410
01:04:55,800 --> 01:05:00,400
Yeah, yeah, first question from a lot of people in school.

1411
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:02,560
Oh, I got lots of advice for you.

1412
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:04,400
We'll do that off-camera.

1413
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:07,840
Again, last question.

1414
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:10,080
What is greatness to you?

1415
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:17,680
Man, I feel like I've already had so many hippy-dippy answers.

1416
01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:21,600
Go with what you feel.

1417
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:22,440
It's amazing.

1418
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:24,920
Go with what you feel.

1419
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:29,080
This one has potential to go down one of those paths too.

1420
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:34,080
But I think greatness is being open to the world

1421
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:46,720
in a way that allows you to connect

1422
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:51,080
with other people and things,

1423
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:56,840
spaces, people in various places,

1424
01:05:56,840 --> 01:05:59,640
and a willingness and desire

1425
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:02,600
to share something positive with them.

1426
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:07,400
And I think maybe, I guess I should clarify,

1427
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:09,720
I think that's more of a catalyst for greatness

1428
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:11,720
than greatness itself.

1429
01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:15,240
Because I don't know if it's possible to achieve that

1430
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:16,800
in its truest form.

1431
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:18,880
But I feel like having that openness

1432
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:22,880
and empathy for others is one of the best ways

1433
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:26,240
to at least move in that direction.

1434
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:29,360
Michael, thank you for your time.

1435
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:32,480
And I know you've been through a lot of what you said

1436
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:35,160
hundreds of times in other interviews, podcasts.

1437
01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:38,440
But that's why I doubly appreciate this.

1438
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:39,280
I don't know.

1439
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:42,840
Every conversation is different.

1440
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:47,400
And even when you do touch on things discussed before,

1441
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:49,120
there's always new ways to explore them

1442
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:50,640
with different people.

1443
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:52,920
And I feel like you and I took the conversation

1444
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:55,040
in different ways than it's gone before.

1445
01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:57,400
So yeah, I appreciate you having me on.

1446
01:06:57,400 --> 01:06:59,880
This was a lot of fun for me as well.

1447
01:06:59,880 --> 01:07:00,720
Cool.

1448
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:01,600
Thanks again, man.

1449
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:04,280
Hey, it's Enrico Collantoni here,

1450
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:07,320
actor, director, and dedicated napper.

1451
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:08,640
Like what you heard today?

1452
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:10,120
There's more to come.

1453
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:12,880
Make sure to subscribe to Behind Greatness

1454
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:16,360
and learn about our live events at inspirenorth.com.

1455
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:18,200
You'll also find links to our social media

1456
01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:19,160
right on our website.

1457
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:22,000
So be sure to give us a like and follow.

1458
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:24,560
Until next time, stay inspired.

1459
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:26,000
We'll see you next time.

1460
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:26,840
Bye.