1. HappyMonday

    HappyMonday Moderator

  2. Belfrey

    Belfrey Senior Member

    I believe this was originally posted on Carnicom in 2000, although I'm having trouble finding the original (it's been reposted on many sites). Carnicom has also posted a sequel of sorts, supposedly from an airline manager.

    It's also shown up on YouTube. Always seems funny to me to have video of text, but YT is the de facto medium of conspiracy theorists, so here you have it:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    This story has been around for quite some time . . . I think since at least 2009 . . . sounded like interesting fiction at the time or possibly true to people not sophisticated about aircraft maintenance . . . seems even if true the amount of aerosol would be so tiny as to be useless except for self replicating agents . . .

    My question is . . . what is the motivation for such fiction . . . to produce a story that people will read and believe . . . how would you know how successful you were . . .?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. cloudspotter

    cloudspotter Senior Member

    How do you trace the pipework without taking the plane apart?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    I did think about this at the time a bit . . . with homeland security how could this be done without too many maintenance and security people involved . . . I had experience with undercover OSI agents planted to uncover illegal drug activities in an organization I worked in . . . didn't know for ten years the personnel were plants . . . seems homeland security could bust something like was written about above unless they were part of the activity . . . obviously not very likely . . .
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The original, with some commentary, dates back to 2000, it's included on this Rense page dated 5/17/2000, along with some other posts saying it's bogus. the original single posts seems to have been removed.

    http://rense.com/general/stumble.htm
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    I read the entire thing including comments . . . sounds like people felt at the time Cloverleaf was a real thing . . . did you read the comments from the alleged airline executive . . . if this was well known in 2000 . . . where are the follow-up observations . . . that would take world class intimidation to silence the leaks possible . . . ?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Seems like the letter is a pretty obvious hoax really. There's no evidence that it's otherwise.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. TWCobra

    TWCobra Senior Member

    Airline mechanics are specialists. They are rated and concentrate on one aspects of an aircraft only. In general these specialties are airframe, avionics, engines. An engine mechanic does not work on the airframe and vice versa. They are not qualified to do so. The "pecking order" does not exist.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    that's not necessarily true - it depends entirely on where and when you work.

    My Aircraft Maintenance Engineers licence (AMEL) is in both airframes and engines, and although i didn't get any ratings before I "hit the office work" most "mechanical" LAME's (Licenced aircraft Maintenance engineers) in New Zealand and Australia would have airframe AND engine ratings if they were holding a Type II ICAO licence - that is a licence for maintenance.

    Type I licences - for overhaul - are held by "shop specialists" and people would usually only have limited ratings for them.

    so airframe OVERHAUL/REPAIR specialists would sometimes only have an airframe rating, but people carrying out the routine maintenace - inspection/test/replace - would have multiple ratings.

    I don't know how the FAA maintenance licences works these days.

    but even so the so-called testimony stil reads like rubbish to me. there was no such pecking order where I worked - people did have their favourite areas of the a/c to work on but knew the3y might be assigned to any part of an aircraft during a check. No-one liked toilets so therefore everyone got them occasionally to "share the load" (as it were!!) - especially aprentices!! :)

    Edit to add: "spooks" - avionics engineers usually have their licence in 3 categories - electrical, radio and instrument
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. TWCobra

    TWCobra Senior Member

    Yeah thanks Mike, I knew some people were cross qualified by it is pretty arcane from a pilots point of view. Definitely no "pecking order" however. People work on what they are qualified to do.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    I don't know that it is all that arcane even from a pilot's pov - you'd have gotten to a 747 cockpit via smaller a/c that you still have ratings for - even if they are not current?

    simlarly with an AMEL - although currency is not quite as strictly controlled - I used to work with guys who had ratings for engine/airframe of old and sometimes long forgotten types such as Bristol Freighter, Hastings, Viscount, Argosy, DC-8, Electra etc.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. TWCobra

    TWCobra Senior Member

    Well as an airline pilot I only fly one type at a time. To go back to the 767 now would be a three month course even though I have 8000 hours on it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    Yep - but being a mechanic is more about the principles of mechanics rather than the precise operating parameters of flight - which is why you would need retraining - a 767 handles differently from a 747, has a different layout, different climb rates, etc.

    But a CF6 turbine disc disassembles in much the same was as a RR Dart disc does from a F-27 (probably not actually...but close enough for ilustration :)), and measuring the dimensions of the blades from either is done with the manual in front of you and is not a "real time" operation! Fits and clearances are measured the same way whether in a fuel pump or an undercarriage, and these days the electronic display on a 777 is possibly the same part number as that on a 737-800 so the spook does not actually need to know what a/c it is fitted to at all!

    that said these days a licenced mechanic is required to be "famliiar" with any systems s/he is signing off as airworthy - which would mean that if you hadn't worked on a particular a/c type for some time then you should expect a refresher course - but that might be just a week or 2 depending on how long you had been away and how complex the a/c is.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. M Bornong

    M Bornong Senior Member

  16. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Madisonstar Moon is lying.

    She says she posted it a year ago, and maybe that is true, but did she wait thirteen years to do so?

    Madisonlies.JPG

    The truth is that was a fake story put out thirteen years ago.

    http://rense.com/general/stumble.htm
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. cloudspotter

    cloudspotter Senior Member

    • Like Like x 1
  18. M Bornong

    M Bornong Senior Member

  19. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

  20. M Bornong

    M Bornong Senior Member

    anon1. anon2. anon3. anon4. anon5. anon6.
    that link isn't taking you there? Here are screen shots for those of you that it's not working for.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2013
    • Like Like x 2
  21. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    No. It is just taking me to my FB page
     
  22. Landru

    Landru Moderator Staff Member

    You've probably been banned. The link works for me.
     
  23. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    probably means you have been banned.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. M Bornong

    M Bornong Senior Member

    Just added screen shot
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    Any bets on that Michele parks under a tree? and that Cherie doesn't recognize cottonwood fluff?
     
  26. Soulfly

    Soulfly Banned Banned

    Why do I get the feeling that if some how chemtrailers took over, that we would most definitely end up living in a police state? Maybe because of statements like this.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  27. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Not a none of them bothered to take a few words out of that and google it? They could have immediately found that what she claims is new is actually thirteen years old. The Edward Tan fellow can tell just by the way it reads that it has holes, and the honey truck guy knows quite certainly it's not him.

    Why are so many so gullible, they seem curious, but never bother to check things out by a simple google. Spoon fed by handlers and abusers.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 21, 2013
    • Like Like x 2
  28. M Bornong

    M Bornong Senior Member

    https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/...=10153034717405302&offset=0&total_comments=44

    Edward Tan has now directed them to Carnicoms site and pointed out it is 13 years ago. Several are now calling for Edward's banishment from the group.

    anon7. anon8.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  29. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    • Open Group
    • NOTE: In this group, you will not be irritated by people who check stuff out or think critically, or who claim that chemtrails don't exist. We know they exist and w...more
     
    • Like Like x 2
  30. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    All you have to do if you're banned is make a group page. You can then read all the posts.
     
  31. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    [...]

    7-21madison copy.

    FOrgot to point out the second comment from the bottom. "those fuckers will all die."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 22, 2013
  32. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

  33. HappyMonday

    HappyMonday Moderator

    [...] Exactly why I'm taking a break from spreading the word to these closed shop FB and Twitter communities. The block button is essentially 1984's memory hole.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2013
    • Like Like x 1
  34. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Please try to avoid personal attacks, even when it comes to Facebook posters. Discussion should tend towards analyzing claims, not people - unless the person makes specific claims about themselves.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  35. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    Wow... just, wow....

    These people seem to epitomize what they claim to be against. It's a bizarro world of reverse-speak and reverse-think. They somehow justify outright lying in their 'war' against, er... whatever it is they think they are fighting. This is why it's nearly impossible to talk sense into them.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  36. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Which is why we should not try, as it just descends into a mud slinging match. Instead focus on simply exposing their inaccuracies in a way that would reach the most people possible.

    Don't try to talk sense into them, just talk sense.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  37. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    My posts were still there, I didn't try to tell them that chemtrails don't exsist, I just pointed to some facts about a couple of concerns there. Sometimes that works to start knocking out small supports, like' "trees are dying' and they link it to chemtrails, instead I use their own link to show that it is climate change and the conditions that comes from that.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  38. HappyMonday

    HappyMonday Moderator

    Fair point. Mildly infringing post edited.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
    • Like Like x 1