1. David

    David Member

    Don't know if this deserves a thread, but I'm interested what you think about this video.
    He claims that since the 1990's major western governments have been secrectly adding radioactive isotopes and aluminum oxides to jet fuel to manipulate the weather.
    He begs people to look up main stream media articles, university studies and government reports about this topic.
    He has the documents of course.

     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014
  2. Jason

    Jason Senior Member

    David, you should try to discuss some talking points in the video in case some are too busy to watch it or don't want to watch it. Discuss the claim you think is worthy of debunking
     
  3. David

    David Member

    I just did that, don't know if that's enough. But I posted this video because I never heard Alex Jones talk about it, I was interested if the people here heard some new things. (probably not)
     
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  4. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Does he present any evidence at all? If not then his claims can simply be dismissed as being without evidence. You don't need to go any further.
     
  5. David

    David Member

    Not really, he does give some sources, he claims the evidence is in them.
    But it's too much information to summarize.

    http://www.cfr.org/content/thinktank/GeoEng_041209.pdf

    http://www.wired.com/2009/03/dimskies/

    and more.

    He's not convincing me but maybe a lot of other people, he does have a large audience.
     
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  6. Jason

    Jason Senior Member

    He referenced the BBC news article that discusses global dimming. Here is the article; http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4171591.stm. He says that chemtrails are responsible for the global dimming, but in reality the article list these as the reasons for global dimming;
    Obviously, he doesn't know how to "just read documents"... as he claims the evidence is in plain sight. There isn't one reference in the entire article to the commercial airline industry or contrails (chemtrails).
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014
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  7. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    It's sooo common for conspiracy-mongers, like AJ, to declare that there is "plenty of evidence", but not really show any of it directly. They may cite sources, but those sources might be an hour-long vid and it's supposedly "in there" somewhere. If you demand they be more specific, they just whine that they are "not going to do your research for you" and skip merrily on down the road. If you take time to watch the hour-long vid and find that what they claimed is not there, they just say that there are "plenty of sources" which they claim say the same thing, but still don't cite them directly. Rinse, repeat... This is how internet conspiracy theories gain and keep traction- through constant and repeated misrepresentation of what they IMAGINE to be true.
     
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  8. David

    David Member

    Yes, he does that all the time, but with a lot of topics I can see the mistakes in his claims.
    I never believed in chemtrails because it just sounds too crazy to me, but it's hard for me to check all these claims.
    Because of Metabunk I understand it a little bit better.
    But I bet this video made a lot of people believe this chemtrail conspiracy.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    I've posted on that video, on the YouTube. Getting flak already.

    (ETA): Oh, and politeness doesn't apply there....still, I might have come on a bit too strong. It was calculated, in a way, to get a rise.
     
  10. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    It's commonly called "cherry-picking".
     
  11. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  12. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    Yes....much better and more precise as a description.
     
  13. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    Also, I focused on these two key points.

    Firstly, "radioactive isotopes" in aviation Jet-A1 can be ruled out with the use of a Geiger counter. (And, the term is vague anyways).

    Secondly, "aluminium oxides" are as a rule very abrasive. Such contaminants (for they would act as contamination) in aviation fuel would rather quickly destroy the engines, even IF they made it past the multiple fine-screened filters and pumps, etc.

    Besides the abrasive nature of particles that might contaminate jet fuel, there is the ultimate fact of the combustion area, where the fuel is burned at temperatures that approach 4,000° C. These "particles" would then melt of course....and be deposited on the components of the engines....the High Pressure Turbine blades, and everything 'downstream' of the combustion chamber.

    Should add that in most airliner applications, the jet fuel (besides of course supplying the engines) is also used to help maintain oil temperatures. There is a component called the "Fuel/Oil Heat Exchanger" (a bit like a car radiator). NOTE that this is a "win/win" also....the oil can be cooled, but the hot oil ALSO helps to keep the fuel from getting too cold, on flights that are long-duration, at very high altitude...keeps the fuel from "freezing".

    Thing is, most people who fall for the myth of "chem"trails lack the scientific and technical knowledge background to properly vet such claims.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014
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  14. Soulfly

    Soulfly Banned Banned

    Any molten metal adhering to a rotating part would quickly throw it off balance and probably catastrophically tear the engine apart in the process.
     
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  15. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    Yes, indeed. I wanted to also add that this is the case in instances when airliners (accidentally) encounter airborne volcanic ash. It is a very serious issue, and even a very slight distribution of volcanic ash suspended in the atmosphere has devastating, and rapid results in engine performance deterioration. (Meaning....the more concentration of suspended ash particles, the greater and faster the damage).

    Just 'ONE' article....(there are many others available to read with a few online searches):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_ash_and_aviation_safety

    A short video:


    A longer video:
     
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  16. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    For reference, here's the YouTube automatic transcript of the show (spoilered for size)
     
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  17. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The basic debunk here is that every single one of his documents from an official source is talking about maybe doing it in the future.
     
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  18. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    But readers believe him when he says it is an "admission" of current activity. :sigh:
     
  19. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    Thank you for cutting to the 'quick'. I inappropriately used "cherry-picking" as a description of the deceptive tactics employed by Mr. Jones.

    But, the facts are the facts....he mis-represented what are "proposals" for the future to imply that they are currently being implemented.

    This is also called "lying". He (Mr. Jones) is an entertainer, first and foremost. Unfortunately, many of his 'followers' are not aware of this fact.
     
  20. Jason

    Jason Senior Member

    Most of his documents and articles he references are from a while ago too, I noticed. Take the BBC claim for example where he mentioned scientist did a study about "global dimming" and made it seem like it was about "chemtrails". The article was written in 2005. He seems to sift through older material (that makes no refernce to contrails) and make a correlation of how it fits into his "government is spraying us theory"..
     
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  21. David

    David Member

    He is obviously in it for the money. The description of the video says it all.

     
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  22. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    THAT basically is a "Smoking Gun" of actual evidence. Thank you.
     
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  23. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I'll write a point by point rebuttal of this later, as it's bound to get shared a lot. It's quite sad the old stuff he's bring up. Powder contrail generator? Indirect and Semi-Indirect Aerosol Campaign? Clearly he's not read them, or he's being disingenuous.
     
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  24. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  25. Jason

    Jason Senior Member

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  26. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    Yes, I am certain that the particular patent shown above was a device invented to be attached to military drones (prior to modern R/C or remotely-guided drones...these were autonomous ones) that were intended for "target practice".

    I've seen this same Patent trotted out numerous time, over several years.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  27. Jason

    Jason Senior Member

    It's like finding patents for telescopes a hundred years from now when they are obsolete, and claiming telescopes were built and designed with the intentions to see UFO's approaching earth.
     
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  28. SR1419

    SR1419 Senior Member

    Praps someone should point out to ol' AJ that weather manipulation and geo- engineering are not the same thing.
     
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  29. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    Nice sentiment....won't do any good.

    'AJ' is an "entertainer". He will spout whatever will bring in an audience. Plain and simple as that.

    He is the "human" equivalent of the periodical tabloid "National Enquirer"

    Pointless pablum.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014
  30. derwoodii

    derwoodii Senior Member

    all this is claimed and yet AJ still flies commercial aircraft, one must wonder.
    http://www.infowars.com/alex-jones-detained-by-tsa/
     
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  31. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    I had to do a "double-take" there, because at first I thought you meant that 'AJ' actually is a PILOT who flies commercial airplanes....only LATER did I see the hypocrisy that you were pointing out. WELL done!!!
     
  32. Jason

    Jason Senior Member

    Do you guys think 'AJ' actually believes in this dribble or he does it merely for ratings and money?
     
  33. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    No.

    Yes.

    Yes.
     
  34. Gunguy45

    Gunguy45 Active Member

    Another No, Yes, Yes. He panders to those that have that sort of mind.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  35. Jason

    Jason Senior Member

    But he has to have some kind of foundation with these type of beliefs in order to be such a big proponent of CT's. I think he truly believes our government is covering stuff up which to be honest with you most people are skeptical when it comes to government affairs. I think he really believes in the NWO and bilderberg group and that sort of stuff, but in order to stay busy and have things to talk about he chooses to discuss things like chemtrails, ufo's, and geoengineering
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  36. Elfenlied

    Elfenlied Member

    Don't you mean 4,000° Fahrenheit instead of Celsius? Even an oxy-acetylene torch only reaches about 3,500°C.
     
  37. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    That could be. The differentiation of degrees C versus degrees F can cause confusion. (evidenced by my mistake).

    So, granted here. Still....the temperatures of combustion (regardless of units used) far exceed the melting point of "aluminium oxides". Agreed?

    ETA this (FWIW):
    http://www.rolls-royce.com/interactive_games/journey03/
     
  38. Svartbjørn

    Svartbjørn Senior Member

    Honestly Jason.. from everything Ive seen from the guy, he's just a wanna be Rush Limbaugh. Same kind of ranty yelling etc, and he's in it for the money. He makes a killing from the junk he sells and like any good businessman he wants to KEEP making money. The way to keep making money, is to keep giving ppl what they want. AJ might have STARTED as someone who believed, but as the guys have stated before, I very seriously doubt he still does.
     
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  39. Chew

    Chew Senior Member

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  40. Jason

    Jason Senior Member