1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I believe you'll find that that news story, like others in the weeks directly after 9/11 was simply finding people with the same name. The BBC says:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2006/10/911_conspiracy_theory_1.html

     
  2. Oxymoron

    Oxymoron Banned Banned

    So it took them five years, (Friday, 27 October 2006) to address the issue and when you click the link:later reported on the list of hijackers you get:
    Friday, 5 October, 2001 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1581063.stm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waleed_al-Shehri


    waleed al shehri

    This is the BBC five year on update showing the "alleged" terrorists

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/guides/456900/456983/html/nn1page1.stm

    [​IMG]


    For more convolution see

    http://www.911myths.com/html/waleed_al-shehri_still_alive.html

    and

    http://welfarestate.com/911/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  3. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    No, people with the same name are still alive.

    And it did not take them five years to address it, as they noted they produced a new story in a few days:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1581063.stm

    All the Hijackers have wikipedia pages, any confusion regarding if they are alive are dead is addressed in them.

    Don't you think if they actually WERE alive then that would expose the entire thing as a conspiracy?
     
  4. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    One thing to remember is that there are less names used in Islam than we are used to. It is closer to the medieval period in Europe when everyone had to take a saint's name. I fact, even today, when you are confirmed in the Catholic church you are asked to take a saint's name. So in the church, Katherine is my name
     
  5. Oxymoron

    Oxymoron Banned Banned

    I wouldn't think a little thing like that would make any difference whatsoever... most people don't even know wtc7 collapsed or that there is no substantive evidence, (let alone proof), that OBL had any direct involvement with 9/11.

    America seems more like the land of the sheep and the home of the frightened than the land of the free and the home of the brave... unfortunately it appears not to be confined to the U.S.

    Perhaps we can take the 'hijackers' one at a time and try to determine what the truth really is;

    Is this man alive or dead? Was he a Hijacker or not? If not, who was?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulaziz_al-Omari

    http://guardian.150m.com/september-eleven/hijackers-alive.htm

     
  6. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    There are at least 9 Robert Brownings listed on FaceBook, does that mean that the poet Robert Browning is still alive? Maybe there was a conspiracy to cover up his death.

    There are over 25 folks on Linked In with my given name---One time I was checking some of them, and found out that 3 different ones share uncommon hobbies with me.

    Many folks SHARE the same day. DUH
     
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  7. Oxymoron

    Oxymoron Banned Banned

    Yes there are many people who share my name as well but if one was shown in the worldwide media as a terrorist who had died, I would feel no compulsion to jump up and say... 'No no, I am still alive and I didn't do it'... unless they were showing my picture or otherwise conclusively asserting it was me.

    To me, it shows the unreliability of evidence produced.

    To date this has still not been resolved... unless someone here knows better... in which case I am more than happy to be corrected.
     
  8. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    They were asserting that the pilot did it. Why wouldn't you point out that YOU are innocent?

    I have seen multiple cases of folks coming forward and pointing out that THEY are not the criminal of the same name
     
  9. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    What's to resolve? There was some confusion about people with the same name TWO WEEKS after the attack, and then nothing beyond this initial confusion for twelve years?
     
  10. Oxymoron

    Oxymoron Banned Banned

    If you can definitively show there is no confusion I would appreciate it.

    i.e. is Abdul Aziz Al-Omari, still alive? Did someone steal his identity? If so what was that person's real identity. Why was the photo of the real (live) Omari, spread all over the world media?

    Like I said... it is not only names... these people did not jump up and say 'here I am, I didn't do it', simply on the basis of a name.
     
  11. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The initial confusion still remains to some degree. But all it is is the details of his life are unclear.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulaziz_al-Omari

    The people denying they did it were people who had been identified purely on the basis of a name.

    Surely the identity of most of the hijackers is perfectly clear now? What does it matter if you don't know every detail of the life of one of them? He still came from Saudi Arabia, attended the flight school, and was on the plane when it flew into the North Tower. He's just some guy, a suicidal jihadist.
     
  12. Oxymoron

    Oxymoron Banned Banned

    I suggested we get to the bottom of one hijackers identity and randomly picked Omari.

    There are up to 9 out of the 19 identities which have been queried. After my best efforts I cannot ascertain what the truth of the matter is.

    Earlier, you posted:
    Have you now changed your mind?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  13. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Changed my mind? No. I don't think they are sill alive. I think the background of Omari is not clear. I think if the FBI had clearly identified someone, and was continuing to do so, and that exact person (not just someone with the same name) was still alive, then it would raise serious questions. If lots of them were still alive, then that would be very suspicious.

    But there's really nothing here other than the initial confusion with people of the same names, and the absence of a highly detailed life story for every hijacker - which I would not expect anyway.
     
  14. Oxymoron

    Oxymoron Banned Banned

    Ok, guess you can't debunk the undebunkable.

    Suppose I and millions of others will have to carry on believing they are still alive and the FBI can't be bothered to show different. If the FBI and you think it's sufficient to post a few pictures and names and create some facebook pages and take no notice of 9 out of 19 people saying 'no no I am not dead', then that's that. The CT will go on.
     
  15. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Who was saying "no no I am not dead" after the initial misidentification of people with the same name?
     
  16. Clock

    Clock Active Member

  17. Oxymoron

    Oxymoron Banned Banned

    Yes very interesting and some of the links are very interesting as well and could be used to open up many knew speculative theories also.

    The problem is, where do these pictures originate. Is it the media sourcing them incorrectly or do they get the pictures from government sources. It seems that is where the confusion lays.

    Here is news footage which is so wrong on many levels. Is it just 'really bad reporting', or part of the hype designed to engender patriotic zeal for retaliation, tailored to fit an agenda.



    According to Wikipedia, Mohammed Atta was on trial in 2008 :)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramzi_bin_al-Shibh#Capture_and_detention
    This guy is likely one of the planners but there is a lot of hidden stuff around what is happening here.

    http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2...pes-altered-like-the-abu-zubaydah-tapes-were/


    Here is a very interesting Al Jazeera interview with Binalshibh.

     
  18. Oxymoron

    Oxymoron Banned Banned

    Slightly off topic but I think related as he was named as the 20th highjacker.

    http://www.theworld.org/2013/02/911-trial-ransacking/
    Feb 15th 2013
    LOL :)

    Here is another take on it.

    http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/20...madness-of-the-military-commissions/#comments

     
  19. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    Wikipedia is subject to have misinformation being posted. Recently, there was some political post that claimed a certain person was Democrat and they used a Wikipedia link to prove this. However, when one checked the legislator list for that state, he was a Republican. Checking his own bio, showed he had been active in Republican party activities since college. (He said or did something very objectionable).

    There is a good reason that Wikipedia is not considered a suitable source for academic papers. Heck, even the hobby group I am in, does not consider a good source. It can be a starting point. The older the subject, and the less controversial, the better. I would not worry a lot about the info it shows for Queen Elizabeth I, as I would for info on Queen Elizabeth II
     
  20. Oxymoron

    Oxymoron Banned Banned

    It should have been Khalid Sheikh Mohammed,
     
  21. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member


    Huh? What does he have to do with my post?
     
  22. Oxymoron

    Oxymoron Banned Banned

    You were saying about Wiki being unreliable. The wiki entry stating Mohammed Atta was on trial in 2008... should have read: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed,
     
  23. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    Ah, thank you. You are quite correct in that.
     
  24. Lost World

    Lost World New Member

    Not necessarily. There could be a perfectly rational explantion for for it. I'm not sure what it would be, but I expect it's of similar magnitiude to the BBC and Reuters reporting the collapse of WT7 25 minutes before the event. The explanation for that was that "It was a very confusing day" I expect there's a perfectly rational explantion also for Mohamed Atta's passport being found virtually unscathed in the rubble after the entire plane had been incinerated. These things happen. Apparently. Astonoshing coincidences occur all the time. How did the hi-jackers know that the air defences over the Pentagon would be deactivated that day, due to the multiple anti terror drills that were going on at the time? Were they told, or did they just get lucky? I could go on..

    My point is, and apologies if I sound a little sarcastic is that sometimes things just don't add up. It doesn't always equate to a conspiracy, but applying the principle of Occams razor to these events, I can't help but think that the official line to what happened that day is actually more convoluted than SOME of the conspiracy theories around it.

    I also don't regard Wikipedia as a consistently trustworthy source of information. Anyone with any number of potential agendas could post those pages, and the routine of requesting citation and verification seems to be in the hands of Google admin (correct me if I'm wrong) and they are hardly the most ethical of corporations going by how they duck and dive and avoid their tax responsibilities.
     
  25. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    It is often informative to read the discussion about an article. Check out the one for Corexit, for example. The last time I looked at it, it had several mistakes in it.
     
  26. Soulfly

    Soulfly Banned Banned

    My name is Richard Reed, but I assure you the shoe bomber is still in jail!
     
  27. Jazzy

    Jazzy Closed Account

    One should always go for alternate references. WIKI is a good source for those.

    It has made directly- and indirectly-accessible an impressive body of available knowledge (at least in the fields I am involved with, Engineering, Maths, Physics, Chemistry), and is itself a medium of exchange for competing ideas, which is good, so I'm inclined personally not to knock it.
     
  28. Soulfly

    Soulfly Banned Banned

    Just to put into perspective on the size and how much explosives one would need to destroy each tower. The towers were so big each one had its own zip code. 10047 and 10048.
     
  29. jvnk08

    jvnk08 Active Member

    Just to be pedantic, there is no established size for zipcodes. Some places have multiple zipcodes all to themselves. Zone Improvement Plan codes were designed to help mail to get somewhere faster, particularly important for places that receive a lot of mail.

    But yes, they were quite large buildings :) just look at images of the memorials in comparison to people. Absolutely huge buildings.
     
  30. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  31. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Yes there is. He was in the front of the plane. The front of the plane was ripped to shreds. There was a huge explosion. The blast wave would push some debris out of the building. The passport was part of that.

    Several IDs of passengers on the planes were recovered, and they were not even in the cockpit. Several bits of paper from the planes were found.
     
  32. Soulfly

    Soulfly Banned Banned

    True, just giving a perspective. Manhattan's land area is 22.96 sq miles and there are 41 zip codes. That gives an ave size of .56 sq miles per zip code. An avg block size in Manhattan is 250 by 600 feet, each floor in a tower was 50,000 sq ft. That comes out to 73.33 blocks for both towers if each floor was a single story building.
     
  33. izz

    izz New Member

    Quote: "I believe you'll find that that news story, like others in the weeks directly after 9/11 was simply finding people with the same name."

    Ah.. yes. So true. But only if you ignore the fact 9 of the alleged hijackers in total have wanted to know why and how their photos, names and date of births were all part of the same information too. But of course 9 men being upset about just having the same names is also very plausible. Sweet. Thanks for that clearing that up for people. This site is truly amazing!

    And your right. Think about it. Something like that would expose the whole operation if it were true. Probably why American news never bothers with such rubbish. Again. Great job pointing to that obvious tidbit. Amazingly done!
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
  34. Oystein

    Oystein Active Member

    To put this into practical perspective:

    I am currently working extensively on my family tree, which is very much helped by the fact that, for the region where almost all my father's ancestors are from, the Latter Days Saints have birth, marriage and death certificates online pretty much completely for the entire 19th century, and up to about 1910.

    The women's names are
    Anna, Barbara, Catharina, Elisabetha, Franziska, Helena, Johanna, Josephina, Magdalena, Margaretha, Maria, Regina, Susanna.
    These 13 names account for 97% of all first and seconds names.
    The men's names are:
    Baptist, Caspar, Gottfried, Heinrich, Hubert, Johann, Joseph, Leonard, Martin, Mathias, Nicolas, Michel, Peter, Wilhelm.
    These 14 names account for 97% of all first and second names.

    It not at all unusual for a married couple to have 5 daughters named Anna Maria, Anna Margaretha, Susanna Margaretha and again Anna Maria. (Sometimes, the first Anna Maria had died and they did a second version, sometimes they actually would have wo children with the exact same name!).


    There was more variety on the family names though.

    In Arabic lands, both first and last names still today have less variability.
     
  35. Ph_

    Ph_ Closed Account

    In Catholicism it is also common to reuse the first name of your fathers. (or mothers first name if you are a girl.)
    My 3 first names for instance are the first names of my great grandfather, my father and my grandfather
    For 2nd and more children it becomes a varation.
    This reusing of names in our family goes back to before 1600.

    http://www.genealogy.com/articles/research/35_donna.html

     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
  36. darrenr

    darrenr New Member

    I have quite an unusual name. Only one other person comes up when I put it into Google and he's a doctor in Massachusetts and no relation. A few years ago, when I first joined Facebook an American chap contacted me to find out if was the same guy he knew at University in Portsmouth (the one in Hampshire, England). As it happened, I did go to Portsmouth University back in the late 1980's, but back then it was still a Polytechnic. I looked at the American chap's Facebook page and he was 12 years younger than me so would have still been in school when I attended Portsmouth Poly. I initially thought it may have been some sort of scam but after exchanging a few messages with him I realised he was entirely on the level. Which means that someone with the same unusual name as me attended the same University over a decade later.

    So, coincidences happen in our culture where we have literally thousands of names to choose from. How much more likely must they be in cultures where there are only a small number of names to choose from?
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
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  37. Nada Truther

    Nada Truther Active Member

    I graduated from high school with a guy with my same name. Same first, last and middle initial; different middle name, but both J. He did in a car accident back in the 90's. If you were to google his name, his home city, his high school that he graduated fro, and his graduation year in an attempt to contact him, you might get to me. I am not him, yet all of the search criteria is correct. But, he is, sadly no longer with us. The fact that I still am, doesn't mean that he is still alive.

    It is amazing that this is still a topic on this, as it has easily been proven that the whole "same name" phenomena can easily explain why these terrorists are "still alive".
     
    • Like Like x 1
  38. Redwood

    Redwood Active Member

    When my father lived in the little town of Boring, Oregon, there was another person by the same name who owned a dairy. Not only that, they both had brothers with the same name. Dad was always getting calls asking about milk.
     
  39. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    I have the same name as a US Open winner.....
     
  40. Rory

    Rory Active Member

    Tiger Woods? Retief Goosen? Laurie Auchterlonie? Virginia Wade?

    There are literally millions of them! How will we ever guess? ;)
     
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