14 Years of Chemtrails, Comments and Suggestions

I'm bringing this thread out again because IMHO it should be an issue which gets emphasized.
There need be no mystery about the identity of the planes people see making alleged "chemtrails".

How can we press this issue to force the chemtrails promoters to address it?

So much energy is going into taking ineffective pictures and videos, unrelated samples of rain, soil, blood and hair, lawsuits doomed to fail, violent threats and silly play writing.

None of it even comes close.

Identifying the planes is the one issue people can personally do which will reveal undeniable facts, to both sides of the issue.

How to force the issue?
 
I'm bringing this thread out again because IMHO it should be an issue which gets emphasized.
There need be no mystery about the identity of the planes people see making alleged "chemtrails".

How can we press this issue to force the chemtrails promoters to address it?

So much energy is going into taking ineffective pictures and videos, unrelated samples of rain, soil, blood and hair, lawsuits doomed to fail, violent threats and silly play writing.

None of it even comes close.

Identifying the planes is the one issue people can personally do which will reveal undeniable facts, to both sides of the issue.

How to force the issue?

I'm not sure you can Jay. In my short time dealing with these people, they seem to have an instinctual knack of avoiding any road that might lead them to the truth and putting this issue to bed once and for all. I always look to the psychological reasons. Too many of them have a vested interest in NOT discovering the truth. Their whole identity is wrapped around this fictitious pole. You figure this chemtrail theory has been floating around for at least 15 years, and nobody has taken direct air samples from a contrail or a direct sample of jet fuel from the fuel tank of a suspected chemtrail plane?

There's too much money to be made and too many reputations to protect. This is another reason this issue will never get to court. The chemtrail pushers will find some reason, some excuse, why they can't get it to court - then blame the usual conspiracy suspects and add it all into the chemtrail myth for future DVD profits. :)
 
It's a mixed bag. When I talked to a group of them a few months ago, about half of them were really nice, very polite, listening to what I said. Then there were some who basically just laughed at me, as if they knew I was some kind of nazi, and they saw through my pitiful attempts at science. But I never got the sense that they were just in it for the money.
 
It's a mixed bag. When I talked to a group of them a few months ago, about half of them were really nice, very polite, listenting to what I said. Then there were some who basically just laughed at me, as if they knew I was some kind of nazi, and they saw through my pitiful attempts at science. But I never got the sense that they were just in it for the money.

I would agree Mick. I'll qualify my last post - I don't think the average chemtrail activist is in it for the money, i was thinking of their so-called "leaders" - the people feeding them the disinformation. I think the average chemtrail activist is well intended but being mislead by those i described in my last post. :)
 
Quick question, that may have been addressed previously(?). In general, do most chemtrail believers, disbelieve that there is climate change (global warming) as a result of mankind's impact on the planet.
 
Quick question, that may have been addressed previously(?). In general, do most chemtrail believers, disbelieve that there is climate change (global warming) as a result of mankind's impact on the planet.
That's an odd one.

Chemtrail believers believe the IPCC to be a UN conspiracy to channel wealth to fund the NWO via carbon taxes. They believe AGW to be false, and the PTB to be deluded*. They do disbelieve that**, for sure.

There's a lot of painful irony. If I were a watching alien I'd be tickled pink. But the rest of us worry how big the "insane cloud posse" might be.

* They are cleverer than the PTB and can see their delusion.

** The one thing they can be guaranteed to do is to never appreciate or retain a single accurate fact, or come to a rational or logical conclusion, ever. Ever. These guys are using a South-pointed compass to travel North.
 
Thanks Jazzy. How about any connections between the people that oppose any climate change regulation (such as the Koch brothers) and the folks that promote the chemtrail conspiracy theory? Perhaps I am also conspiracy theorizing, just want to gather facts and see if there is a connection or pattern that bears further research.
 
Quick question, that may have been addressed previously(?). In general, do most chemtrail believers, disbelieve that there is climate change (global warming) as a result of mankind's impact on the planet.

I'd say they are split on the issue. You have Russ Tanner and Joe here who say AGW is a hoax, then you have Dane Wigington and Francis Mangels who back AGW all the way. The two strange bedfellows try their best to not raise the subject in an argumentative fashion when they are together, but you could probably split them if you pressed the issue.

The dichotomy leads many of the AGW naysayers to believe that chemtrails are for a more sinister purpose.

For the AGW believers some say chemtrails are making things worse, leading to further warming, methane eruptions, etc.
 
Must have missed this thread but it does raise the issue of Wigington, Mangels and evidence. With claims of high levels of compounds in air, water or soil one would expect it to be relatively simple to prove. There are some sites in the UK like this http://www.chemtrailsprojectuk.com/ that appear to be actively trying to take samples (although they are going to send the data to Mangels to be analysed). There are many people on Facebook that say they are doing the same. However once I approach them with a systematic methodology and an explanation of what they need to do I get blocked. Taking one sample? How do you know if it high in Al? I have a methodology that I can cut and paste that includes how to do a literature review, gathering historical data and how to map industry in the area. I have even taken to contact a couple of labs as well as libraries. For around £1000 you could pay fir a concise study that may be suitable for peer review. This would cover the analysis of 20 samples and maybe 50 or 60 hours work from a post grad student you have recruited through the Students Union for beer money. Even if the person wanted to do the work themselves they may still need to pay for journal articles etc. Now that gives you a starting point although if compared against historical data there is an increase you have something of interest. After that it is just a case of doing some samples every month or so to compare against. If there are increases, especially in a couple of geographically distant sites all you need do is begin to eliminate causes and then present the findings for peer review. To be frank the first part would be an ideal size fir the dissertation for an undergrad in many of the sciences.

Personally I feel that physical evidence in at ground level is a bit if a red herring but I am suprised that men such as Mangels have nit come up with a similar, cost effective, method. I am certain it would be cheaper than another film in Hawaii. I have just become resigned to everyone else blocking me on Facebook.One would think they would all chip in to pay for a study ;-)
 
Dave,
The obstacle isn't how to do environmental sampling, it is how to overcome what has gone before. I mean that the myth has been set that rain water should not have anything in it. We know that is wrong, and so does anyone who understands the environment. That is why the chemtrail believers never have any luck finding a relevant scientist to accept what the believers put out. It took about two years to actually hear Mangels and Wigigton admit that aluminum is always in soils. Those two found a way to deny that what they are seeing in their samples comes from soil, but their reasoning is too convoluted for most believers to understand.

We have already shown both Mangels and Wigington where they went wrong, but they are in too deep and can't see a way out. They would both be totally ruined, along with Michael Murphy and all who went on what they said. For some of these people, their whole lives are invested in this and probably always will be. If they ever stop, it will be the last you ever hear from them, they will literally disappear back into whatever hole they came from. I have seen this happen a few times before.

What you suggest is too hard for all but a one-in-a-thousand chemtrails believer. Almost all of them organize their lives by being followers, they are looking for shortcuts and have generally gotten into this by being gullible and trusting the wrong people. They were already given, and they have accepted a core set of beliefs. if they had the skills to sample the environment, they wouldn't be where they are, they would already understand the environment and what is normal there. They have instead just taken the word of others.

To succeed, you have to find a way to somehow neutralize the influence of what has gone before, or concentrate on those not already under that influence, those who are open, perhaps just the newbies. I'm open to some new suggestions on how to do that.
 
Dave,
The obstacle isn't how to do environmental sampling, it is how to overcome what has gone before. I mean that the myth has been set that rain water should not have anything in it. We know that is wrong, and so does anyone who understands the environment. That is why the chemtrail believers never have any luck finding a relevant scientist to accept what the believers put out. It took about two years to actually hear Mangels and Wigigton admit that aluminum is always in soils. Those two found a way to deny that what they are seeing in their samples comes from soil, but their reasoning is too convoluted for most believers to understand.

We have already shown both Mangels and Wigington where they went wrong, but they are in too deep and can't see a way out. They would both be totally ruined, along with Michael Murphy and all who went on what they said. For some of these people, their whole lives are invested in this and probably always will be. If they ever stop, it will be the last you ever hear from them, they will literally disappear back into whatever hole they came from. I have seen this happen a few times before.

What you suggest is too hard for all but a one-in-a-thousand chemtrails believer. Almost all of them organize their lives by being followers, they are looking for shortcuts and have generally gotten into this by being gullible and trusting the wrong people. They were already given, and they have accepted a core set of beliefs. if they had the skills to sample the environment, they wouldn't be where they are, they would already understand the environment and what is normal there. They have instead just taken the word of others.

To succeed, you have to find a way to somehow neutralize the influence of what has gone before, or concentrate on those not already under that influence, those who are open, perhaps just the newbies. I'm open to some new suggestions on how to do that.
I dont know Jay as long as this stuff like this out there its only going to add to it. http://aerosols.ucsd.edu/E_PEACE.html
 
Joe, maybe I misread that but it appears to be a study on the effects of clouds on global warming, not Geo-Engineering per se. Do you know what the CN and CCN acronyms are?
 
Joe, maybe I misread that but it appears to be a study on the effects of clouds on global warming, not Geo-Engineering per se. Do you know what the CN and CCN acronyms are?
No I dont and neither do the Chemtrail folks . which is part of the problem . Making them as guilty as anyone else .
 
Joe, maybe I misread that but it appears to be a study on the effects of clouds on global warming, not Geo-Engineering per se. Do you know what the CN and CCN acronyms are?

From the Preliminary Accepted Version of the E-PEACE Study http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/BAMS-D-12-00015 page 44:
"*LWC is liquid water content; LWP is liquid water path; CCN is cloud condensation nuclei;
CDN is cloud droplet number. ACP is Aerosol-Cloud Parcel modeling; LES is large eddy
simulation modeling. "

Cheers,

Eric
PS Thanks to all here for making me a bit smarter!
 
No I dont and neither do the Chemtrail folks . which is part of the problem . Making them as guilty as anyone else .

I think the difference is that the geoengineering researcher actually DO know the science, the terminology, etc. It's the "chemtrail folk" who as uniquely guilty in that regard (of presenting things as evidence without understanding what they mean).
 
I think the difference is that the geoengineering researcher actually DO know the science, the terminology, etc. It's the "chemtrail folk" who as uniquely guilty in that regard (of presenting things as evidence without understanding what they mean).
Are you sure they know what they are doing or what they will do will help ? From what see the answer is no . They cant even predict the weather yet they think they can control it ?
 
What is wrong with theorizing about ways to alter the climate. Whether or not you believe in global warming, there may come a time, in the future, when steps must be taken to ensure the survival of the human race.
Atom-Bomb.jpg
 

Joe, how is that a rational reply to what I asked? The point of theorizing is that, hopefully, they consider the negative impact of a hypothesis/theory, as well as the possible benefits. The theorizing and study of all the possible consequences that would occur is, probably, the only reason the nuclear option has not been utilized since 1945. To consider some areas of study as 'off limits' because of their potential to be misused, to me, appears to be a very Luddite view of the world.
 
Are you sure they know what they are doing or what they will do will help ? From what see the answer is no . They cant even predict the weather yet they think they can control it ?

Show me your numbers on forecast verification. Accuracy rates on forecasts are a lot higher than the general public believes.
 
Are you sure they know what they are doing or what they will do will help ? From what see the answer is no . They cant even predict the weather yet they think they can control it ?

The point is, where is the evidence that they are doing anything but thinking about what can be done?
 
The point is, where is the evidence that they are doing anything but thinking about what can be done?
whether was the evidence They were creating a atomic bomb for years but yet with the thousands involved kept it secret ? That is the only Global warming we should be worried about . Who created the bomb ? The stupid uneducated people or the scientist ?
 
Inventing the bomb didn't needs thousands of folks living in hundreds of locations. The 'geo engineering' schemes that folks are touting would. Airports would have to have tanks of chemicals, they would have to be sent to them, and on and on.
 
whether was the evidence They were creating a atomic bomb for years but yet with the thousands involved kept it secret ? That is the only Global warming we should be worried about . Who created the bomb ? The stupid uneducated people or the scientist ?

It was not secret after they used it. How are they managing to keep chemtrails or geoengineering secret if they are actually using it?
 
My people Jay ?? What does that mean ? Geoengineers themselves are just as guilty . http://gmi.gsfc.nasa.gov/mtgs_rpts/2010_09/weisenstein_geoengineering.pdf

Joe, your people are the chemtrails side. Some among your people are advocating violence against humans and property. It really seems you have disconnected that fact from your personal reality, and though hopefully you won't have to deal with that personally, you and the rest of your people should be doing something to prevent that. But you and your people are doing NOTHING to let your people know they are witnessing passenger jets carrying real human beings, men, women, children and elderly making ordinary contrails. I am doing everything I can to let your people know but your people are doing their very best to maintain the illusion that what people are seeing have no babies on board. Your people are ramping up the rhetoric on a daily basis, filling the net with stuff you know are lies and eventually they will succeed in killing many innocent people. Your people will have blood on your hands. Deal with it.
 
Joe, your people are the chemtrails side. Some among your people are advocating violence against humans and property. It really seems you have disconnected that fact from your personal reality, and though hopefully you won't have to deal with that personally, you and the rest of your people should be doing something to prevent that. But you and your people are doing NOTHING to let your people know they are witnessing passenger jets carrying real human beings, men, women, children and elderly making ordinary contrails. I am doing everything I can to let your people know but your people are doing their very best to maintain the illusion that what people are seeing have no babies on board. Your people are ramping up the rhetoric on a daily basis, filling the net with stuff you know are lies and eventually they will succeed in killing many innocent people. Your people will have blood on your hands. Deal with it.
Your people will have blood on your hands.? I think your paranoid Jay . There were plenty of your people carrying signs to kill George Bush yet they are still around today . Like I said those post you have all copied from facebook and youtube are nothing but frustrated people who THINK your peo[ple are trying to kill them . Yet after 14 years of failure to convince them you blame them when your trolling actually made it worse . Here some of your comments from over 2 years ago . tell me how this is going to convince them ?
jayreynolds writes:

Contrails form up in the sky
Grandma in 747 looks down from on high
True believer sees chemtrails in the scene
Grandma opens her in-flight magazine
-Jay Reynolds
Think about it.............


 
It was not secret after they used it. How are they managing to keep chemtrails or geoengineering secret if they are actually using it?
Theyre not There is the problem . or at least many think they are not .
 
It seems simple to me, he is pointing out that REAL, ordinary folks are on the planes that some think are spraying chemicals and that a few would love to shot down.

As to Pres George W Bush, what I saw and heard were not folks wanting to kill him, but folks wanting him brought before the court in the Hague for war crimes---that is a BIG difference. I never heard anyone say that they 'had a bullet with his name on it'. I never saw anyone wanting to 'shoot his supporters, like the pigs they are' either. I have seen both recently
 
Show me your numbers on forecast verification. Accuracy rates on forecasts are a lot higher than the general public believes.
Probably higher then the general public is told . Of course with todays technology it has improved . Its still not near 100 % accurate . So what makes you think the Geoengineers might just make things worse . If they havent started already why would they want anyone to know ? If they try to mitigate a hurricane and it still hits shore and causes damage people will just say they made it worse and they are responsible for the damage and deaths . So they will never say . Plausible Deniability ? When they sprayed Agent orange in Nam what happened ? Did some egghead not do test to see long term effects ? No , So you expect Us to trust that anyone can geoengineer the weather ?
 
But if it's not a secret, then how come I don't know about it?
Mick most people believe your part of the secret a Government shill . Im sure you know that and have heard it many times . I dont .
 
Show me your numbers on forecast verification. Accuracy rates on forecasts are a lot higher than the general public believes.

I use weatherbug and they have an hourly forecast for the coming week. I am frequently surprised by how spot on they are.
 
Your people will have blood on your hands.? I think your paranoid Jay . There were plenty of your people carrying signs to kill George Bush yet they are still around today .

Joe, not my people, I voted for Bush, twice.

Joe said:
Like I said those post you have all copied from facebook and youtube are nothing but frustrated people who THINK your peo[ple are trying to kill them
.
Yes, they think that because of a pack of lies. You know most of the lies right now. You don't care.


Joe said:
Yet after 14 years of failure to convince them you blame them when your trolling actually made it worse .
Joe you don't know how many I have succeeded with, but I can tell you it has been thousands, maybe tens of thousands. Some of them have become good friends. I get mail from former believers, that keeps me going. I know that Mick and others have gotten the same sort of appreciation.

If any chemtrail believer ever sent you thanks for bringing them into the world of chemtrails, you played a part in their deception.
I suppose that you can be proud of that and absolve yourself. You don't care. I understand. I'll let it go for now. I hate what you are doing, even if I must allow you to aid in destruction in more ways than you know. You aren't worth any more of my trouble at this point. You are dead to me.
Bye.
 
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