1. MikeG

    MikeG Senior Member

    Davis Harris Post.
    David Harris recently ran a story claiming that 100,000 illegal aliens were registered to vote in Pennsylvania. It takes some time to unpeel both parts of the story –the total number and their legal status—but the claim is both disingenuous and inaccurate.

    According to Harris:


    Most of Harris’ article comes from a February 26, 2018 Washington Times story by Stephen Dinan.


    One part of the claim is already easy to debunk The Washington Times correctly uses the term “noncitizens,” while Harris transforms the term into “illegal aliens.” Harris is just plain wrong.

    The 100,000 figure takes more work.

    As mentioned above, the lawsuit comes from the Public Interest Legal Foundation (PILF)

    The PILF page regarding the 100,000 illegal voters is here:

    The 100,000 number is featured in the PILF lawsuit on page 19:


    So, the real meat to the Harris article and the PILF claim seems to be from Philadelphia County Commissioner Al Schmidt, who testified before the Pennsylvania State House Government Committee on October 25, 2017.

    In his written statement to the committee, Schmidt said [boldface in original document]:


    The root of the problem was a Pennsylvania Department of Transportation computer program that allowed people applying for a driver’s license to also register to vote. The program did not separate citizens from recent legal immigrants who could possess a driver’s license, but not vote.

    As Schmidt points out in his testimony, these immigrants had to provide documentation when they apply for a license.


    In his verbal testimony before the committee, starting at 1:03:50, Schmidt does discuss the possibility of 100,000 illegally registered voters. However, if you listen to his testimony, if is not definitive. The 100,000 is an estimated match with federal immigration records.

    However, as soon as he says this, Schmidt begins walking back the number. He mentions that some of the people might have received citizenship. The actual number may be in the “thousands or tens of thousands.” In other words, he does not know. Since he is commissioner only for Philadelphia, his data is incomplete.

    But there is a very large gap between the 220 non-citizens verified by Schmidt between 2006 and 2017 and the 100,000 in his worst case scenario today, a scenario that he does not actually claim is likely.

    David Harris simply manipulated the two parts of Schmidt’s testimony: (1) redefining a possibly illegal vote by a non-citizen and making it a vote by an illegal alien and (2) grossly exaggerating the number from unverified information.
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  2. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    Just for the record, w(1)while I agree some votes may be from what conservatives would consider non-citizens (ie greencard etc) there are also categories on the PENNDOT page that conservatives consider illegal aliens. I realize liberals view 'catch and release' persons -as well as some other categories- as "legal", but conservatives do not. Obviously they are technically legal as those are the current laws.

    I'm only pointing out semantics here because conservatives reading this thread define 'illegal aliens' a bit differently.

    (2) I wouldn't say he necessarily "grossly" exaggerated the number.. he used the number the Commissioner used. and "his" claim says "according to PILF".

    76% of the problem according to the Commissioner [who was only analyzing Philadelphia County].
    But I would like to point out to conservatives, that whether we call them "non-citizens" or "illegal aliens" that 1. some actual non-citizens are included in that count (ie green card holders, visa workers etc) and 2. the numbers in Philadelphia are relatively small.. only 41% of those registered to vote actually voted in Philadelphia.

    Granted 47 votes in an election is only one county, but the "100,000 currently" claim seems iffy. Esp since the reason we know about it is from non-citizens coming forward and telling them. and these people deregistered.
    all quotes from the commissioner https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/TR/Transcripts/2017_0109_0001_TSTMNY.pdf
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2018
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  3. Todd Cee

    Todd Cee New Member

    It is far too easy to register to vote ... an example: my wife moved here 50 years ago from Portugal ... she has never applied for US citizenship, it's complicated but she if she became a citizen then we would lose the right to maintain a residence in Portugal ...

    over the years, many people have tried to register her to vote and always told that her not being a citizen of the US was "not a problem" ... she hates politics anyway so she always declines ...
  4. MikeG

    MikeG Senior Member

    So, we had our first major snow in Pennsylvania and, as it turns out, every road that I took to get home was gridlocked.

    Now PennDOT, the main topic of my original post, is responsible for clearing the roads.

    And all this happened the day after the post?


    I don't think so.

    Friends, we are truly on the other side of the looking glass.

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  5. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    it's because all those illegal aliens don't know how to drive in the snow. ;) (It's probably politically incorrect to say that though)
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  6. Todd Cee

    Todd Cee New Member

    they don't know how to even drive here in sunny Miami ... the roads are maddening ...
  7. qed

    qed Senior Member

    How do you know which bad driver is one of them rather than one of us?